From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Sat May  1 07:51:15 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 09:51:15 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] FW:  distributor info
In-Reply-To: <000001d73d1c$bc55b0b0$35011210$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d73d1c$bc55b0b0$35011210$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <000201d73e91$0edfd890$2c9f89b0$@bluefrog.com>

I'm refining my information quest.

 

There looks like some differences between the stock Ford #s and the Sunbeam
Parts List #s plus no information is listed for the Z5TF-C distributor.

The C4OF-A was replaced by the C5JF-C but my Z5TF-C has a different cam so
I'm thinking it is a hybrid combination of Ford parts.

 

The Tiger distributors are C4OF-A has oil port, Z5TF-C and C5AF-M are the
later updated design.

 

If you happen to have or had one of these distributors apart - what color
are the advance springs?

 

If you have the original Ford vacuum advance, the one's that can be
disassembled - what color is the spring and how long is the Stop part?

 

Pictures welcome - please indicate the distributor ID# - C4OF-A, Z5TF-C,
C5AF-M

 

Thanks for your help

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:26 PM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] distributor info

 

                I'm trying to sort out some of the information about the
stock Tiger Distributors.

 

Has anyone run the advance curve on their stock Tiger distributor?

What are the numbers?

 

Stock Tiger distributors have ID#s - C4OF-A - has oil port, Z5TF-C and
C5AF-M

 

Has anyone pulled apart their stock Tiger distributor or vacuum advance
canister?

 

What color is the Primary spring with short end loops and the Secondary
spring with the longer end loops.

What color is the spring in the vacuum canister.

 

Send picture if you have them.

 

Thanks for your help

Ron Fraser

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon May 17 06:17:11 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 08:17:11 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Study
Message-ID: <000001d74b16$914c7630$b3e56290$@bluefrog.com>

                I've been hands off the Tiger Engine Study for some time
now, too long actually - I'll blame Covid.

I hope everyone on the List has gotten their shots now so we can move
forward.

 

The TE/AE web site has the Tiger engine survey online now - teae.org - but
its location is not as obvious as I would like right now.

 

Here is what you do.

 

Go to teae.org

 

Search - type in engine study - enter

Tiger Engine Study title will appear - click on that

Tiger Engine Study instructions are shown

 

There are 2 options - 1, to print a pdf copy of the survey - this is good
for taking the Survey to your Tiger

          2, an online log in form of the survey

 

Option 2 - this is the automatic format

 

Type in your name and email

Please send the survey form - check YES

You will receive an online survey form and link in your email

Fill out survey

Submit survey and your info will automatically register to the Tiger Engine
Survey spreadsheet

Receive an email confirming your survey info - this email also gives you the
ability to correct or add info and submit.

 

Please, everyone check it out this new approach and input your Tiger Engine
information.

Spread the word, I would like all Tiger owners to participate.

 

Thanks

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

 

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Mon May 24 06:14:50 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 08:14:50 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Study
In-Reply-To: <000001d74b16$914c7630$b3e56290$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d74b16$914c7630$b3e56290$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <000001d75096$668b2330$33a16990$@bluefrog.com>

                So far no one has added their Tiger engine survey info - I
was hoping for better.   If that statement in not correct, if you have
submitted your information into this new format, let me know.

 

This is a new format for the Original Tiger Engine Study - it is a blank
spreadsheet right now waiting for your Tiger Engine Survey info.   This is
also a new format and process for the TE/AE web master and I.    If this new
format is not working correctly we need to understand why.   We also need to
know if it is working correctly.   We need everyone's help and participation
for that to happen.

 

I have entered 3 lines of Tiger Engine info, that is all the information
contained in this new Tiger Engine Study spreadsheet.   I'm not going to
enter all the Original Tiger Engine Study info I have gathered over the
years.    Some or most of that information may be out of date and in many
cases the information is incomplete.   

 

You have to understand it took me a few years to expand the data fields of
the Tiger Engine Study to answer basic questions about the Tiger engine
configurations within the 13 production Tiger engine groups.    It took a
few more years to add additional data fields to answer other Tiger engine
questions asked by Tiger owners.   None of the Sunbeam publications cover
this subject.

 

                I have been asked if this Tiger Engine spreadsheet is
available for study.   Right now - NO, it is not.   Right now there is not
enough information within this new format to study.   If you have Tiger or
Ford engine configuration questions - just ask me.   I will do my best to
answer.

 

                This Original Tiger Engine Study needs every Tiger owners
participation.   If you previously submitted information to me - please
submit your information again through this new automatic format.   If you
have never submitted your Tiger Engine information - please participate.
More information means better understanding of our Marque.

 

                There is more to learn about our Original Tiger Engines -
let's discover it together.

 

Next Monday is Memorial Day - to all military personnel - Thank You for your
service 

 

To all Heath Care Workers - Thank You for your service and perseverance 

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 8:17 AM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Engine Study

 

                I've been hands off the Tiger Engine Study for some time
now, too long actually - I'll blame Covid.

I hope everyone on the List has gotten their shots now so we can move
forward.

 

The TE/AE web site has the Tiger engine survey online now - teae.org - but
its location is not as obvious as I would like right now.

 

Here is what you do.

 

Go to teae.org

 

Search - type in engine study - enter

Tiger Engine Study title will appear - click on that

Tiger Engine Study instructions are shown

 

There are 2 options - 1, to print a pdf copy of the survey - this is good
for taking the Survey to your Tiger

          2, an online log in form of the survey

 

Option 2 - this is the automatic format

 

Type in your name and email

Please send the survey form - check YES

You will receive an online survey form and link in your email

Fill out survey

Submit survey and your info will automatically register to the Tiger Engine
Survey spreadsheet

Receive an email confirming your survey info - this email also gives you the
ability to correct or add info and submit.

 

Please, everyone check it out this new approach and input your Tiger Engine
information.

Spread the word, I would like all Tiger owners to participate.

 

Thanks

Ron Fraser

 

 

 

 

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From rick at atmospherebuilders.com  Thu May 27 08:08:22 2021
From: rick at atmospherebuilders.com (rick at atmospherebuilders.com)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 07:08:22 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] fuel and temp guage connections
Message-ID: <036501d75301$c12fb180$438f1480$@atmospherebuilders.com>

Hi,

Having gauges out for years and rewiring car has me curious about connection
to the fuel and tem gauges. Does it matter which terminal the sender or
power is connected to? They seem unmarked.

 

Best Regards,

 

 

Rick Hyatt

540-257-0864

PO Box 114

Blacksburg, VA

24063



 

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From sabre2tgr at gmail.com  Thu May 27 08:22:54 2021
From: sabre2tgr at gmail.com (Stu)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 10:22:54 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] fuel and temp guage connections
In-Reply-To: <036501d75301$c12fb180$438f1480$@atmospherebuilders.com>
References: <036501d75301$c12fb180$438f1480$@atmospherebuilders.com>
Message-ID: <CA+DpG66wG28O_1GAoMkzWVnDVEaM_xkofE_=ZepMZYmxVoA-ew@mail.gmail.com>

Assuming you have the stock gauges, no, it does not matter.  The heaters on
the bimetal strips that move the pointers do not care which way the current
is flowing.

Stu

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:14 AM <rick at atmospherebuilders.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Having gauges out for years and rewiring car has me curious about
> connection to the fuel and tem gauges. Does it matter which terminal the
> sender or power is connected to? They seem unmarked.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Hyatt
>
> 540-257-0864
>
> PO Box 114
>
> Blacksburg, VA
>
> 24063
>
> [image: Atmosphere blue logo 2]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/sabre2tgr at gmail.com
>
>
>
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From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Thu May 27 10:56:02 2021
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry Christopherson)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 11:56:02 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch problems
Message-ID: <005f01d75319$2db58e80$8920ab80$@suddenlink.net>

So can anybody clear up a clutch problem with the Tigers?

The slave cylinder has just so much travel and some of the "performance"
clutches require more travel than the stock slave cylinder can give.  What
if any are some of the "cures" for this problem?  I really hate to pull the
engine out again to change to a more "moderate" clutch.

 

Jerry Christopherson

9473187

TAC insp #58 

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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Thu May 27 11:23:26 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 10:23:26 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch problems
In-Reply-To: <005f01d75319$2db58e80$8920ab80$@suddenlink.net>
References: <005f01d75319$2db58e80$8920ab80$@suddenlink.net>
Message-ID: <20A8220C-0948-4603-A333-8A7E03EBA03E@comcast.net>

Have you tried a longer slave pushrod
(longer bolt, cut off head) and a return 
spring?  You need to carefully adjust the
free play but you will get the max possible 
stroke.
Gary


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2021, at 9:58 AM, Jerry Christopherson via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> So can anybody clear up a clutch problem with the Tigers?
> The slave cylinder has just so much travel and some of the ?performance? clutches require more travel than the stock slave cylinder can give.  What if any are some of the ?cures? for this problem?  I really hate to pull the engine out again to change to a more ?moderate? clutch.
>  
> Jerry Christopherson
> 9473187
> TAC insp #58
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
> 
> 
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From coolvt at aol.com  Thu May 27 13:37:07 2021
From: coolvt at aol.com (coolvt at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 19:37:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch problems
References: <13681493.488654.1622144227417.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <13681493.488654.1622144227417@mail.yahoo.com>

Suggest talking with Tom Hall. He has different sized push rods available.? Might? solve your problem.
modtiger at comcast.net
?In a message dated 5/27/2021 12:58:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, tigers at autox.team.net writes:?
So can anybody clear up a clutch problem with the Tigers?

The slave cylinder has just so much travel and some of the ?performance? clutches require more travel than the stock slave cylinder can give.? What if any are some of the ?cures? for this problem?? I really hate to pull the engine out again to change to a more ?moderate? clutch.

 ?

Jerry Christopherson

9473187

TAC insp #58 
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/coolvt at aol.com


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From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Thu May 27 22:03:12 2021
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry Christopherson)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 23:03:12 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
Message-ID: <000001d75376$60e29f70$22a7de50$@suddenlink.net>

Thanks for the ideas from all of you.  The issue of a longer push rod (which
I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing
just so far.  Right now I'm touching the bearing (which I don't want of
course).  Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and
slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I'll try driving the car
tomorrow to see if it's livable. I let someone talk me into a  RAM clutch,
should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?  Rick from S. S. said people have
had good luck with them.   I'm now of the feeling if you aren't racing, a
standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger.  The idea of a
higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will
make the peddle force higher.  Another issue is how far can one allow the
slave  piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not
have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).  Mine has a max
movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300 ,but that
would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder,
probably not a good thing!

Thanks again for your responses!  Jerry

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri May 28 06:19:20 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 08:19:20 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <000001d75376$60e29f70$22a7de50$@suddenlink.net>
References: <000001d75376$60e29f70$22a7de50$@suddenlink.net>
Message-ID: <000701d753bb$b0a879e0$11f96da0$@bluefrog.com>

Jerry

                I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on
the clutch rod - just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.

 

If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.

I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this
should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car. 

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry
Christopherson
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue

 

Thanks for the ideas from all of you.  The issue of a longer push rod (which
I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing
just so far.  Right now I'm touching the bearing (which I don't want of
course).  Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and
slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I'll try driving the car
tomorrow to see if it's livable. I let someone talk me into a  RAM clutch,
should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?  Rick from S. S. said people have
had good luck with them.   I'm now of the feeling if you aren't racing, a
standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger.  The idea of a
higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will
make the peddle force higher.  Another issue is how far can one allow the
slave  piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not
have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).  Mine has a max
movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300 ,but that
would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder,
probably not a good thing!

Thanks again for your responses!  Jerry

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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri May 28 08:10:01 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 07:10:01 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <000701d753bb$b0a879e0$11f96da0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d75376$60e29f70$22a7de50$@suddenlink.net>
 <000701d753bb$b0a879e0$11f96da0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <03ff351f-da4c-27db-bc95-3f75f68aefa7@comcast.net>

I've never heard of safety wire but if you have the stock clip to hold 
the rod to the clutch arm,
and you add a return spring to the clutch arm, there isn't much of a way 
for it to fall out.
And you will get max stroke and save the throwout bearing.
Gary


On 5/28/2021 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:
>
> Jerry
>
> ??????????????? I always recommend that everyone should put safety 
> wire on the clutch rod ? just in case the rod gets into a position it 
> could fall.
>
> If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.
>
> I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; 
> this should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car.
>
> Ron Fraser
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Jerry 
> Christopherson
> *Sent:* Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
> *To:* Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] Clutch issue
>
> Thanks for the ideas from all of you.? The issue of a longer push rod 
> (which I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the 
> throw out bearing just so far.? Right now I?m touching the bearing 
> (which I don?t want of course).? Today I received my order from S.S. 
> (new kits for the master and slave) and it seems to have improved the 
> issue, I?ll try driving the car tomorrow to see if it?s livable. I let 
> someone talk me into a ?RAM clutch, should have gone with a 
> Centerforce maybe?? Rick from S. S. said people have had good luck 
> with them. ??I?m now of the feeling if you aren?t racing, a standard 
> Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger. ?The idea of a 
> higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it 
> will make the peddle force higher.? Another issue is how far can one 
> allow the slave? piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder 
> (mine does not have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).? 
> Mine has a max movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out 
> another .300 ,but that would have the front of the piston .300 past 
> the end of the cylinder, probably not a good thing!
>
> Thanks again for your responses!? Jerry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
>
>

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From jay.laifman at gmail.com  Fri May 28 09:00:09 2021
From: jay.laifman at gmail.com (Jay)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 08:00:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <000701d753bb$b0a879e0$11f96da0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d75376$60e29f70$22a7de50$@suddenlink.net>
 <000701d753bb$b0a879e0$11f96da0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <A16109DD-F80C-4699-80F8-18CD353C9D6E@gmail.com>

On the longer pushrod, ?you can only go so far.?  You can actually go too far on VW and early Porsche clutches.  I don?t know if that is true for Sunbeam clutches.  They call it ?going over center.?  The finger springs/levers that the throwout bearing pushes on go from peaked to flat.  When they are flat, the clutch is pulled back and the clutch plate can spin.  But if you keep pushing, the fingers/levers actually go concave, and that causes the clutch to start pushing back in.  

So if your push rod is too long, and it is causing the fork to already move the throwout bearing forward up to the clutch, AND there is an over center concept on the Tiger clutch too, then perhaps that is your issue.







On May 28, 2021, at 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:

Jerry
                I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on the clutch rod ? just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.
 
If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.
I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car. 
 
Ron Fraser
 
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry Christopherson
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
 
Thanks for the ideas from all of you.  The issue of a longer push rod (which I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing just so far.  Right now I?m touching the bearing (which I don?t want of course).  Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I?ll try driving the car tomorrow to see if it?s livable. I let someone talk me into a  RAM clutch, should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?  Rick from S. S. said people have had good luck with them.   I?m now of the feeling if you aren?t racing, a standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger.  The idea of a higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will make the peddle force higher.  Another issue is how far can one allow the slave  piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).  Mine has a max movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300 ,but that would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder, probably not a good thing!
Thanks again for your responses!  Jerry
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman at gmail.com

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From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri May 28 09:49:37 2021
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com (Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 11:49:37 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <03ff351f-da4c-27db-bc95-3f75f68aefa7@comcast.net>
References: <000001d75376$60e29f70$22a7de50$@suddenlink.net>
 <000701d753bb$b0a879e0$11f96da0$@bluefrog.com>
 <03ff351f-da4c-27db-bc95-3f75f68aefa7@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002301d753d9$10fcf1a0$32f6d4e0$@bluefrog.com>

Gary

                My point here is that if you drop the clutch rod you're not
going anywhere.

 

Your spring with the stock clip is excellent but what if something
unexpected happens.

Rust happens, road debris happens, cylinder rubber seals degrade happens,
many things can happen out on the road.

 

Call it safety wire or tether wire, I want to make sure not matter what the
clutch rod is not lost and I have to be towed.

Safety wire is usually stainless steel so it should not rust and it is just
there with no tension or flexing, its just along for the ride until its
needed.

 

Ron Fraser

 

 

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Gary
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 10:10 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue

 

I've never heard of safety wire but if you have the stock clip to hold the
rod to the clutch arm,
and you add a return spring to the clutch arm, there isn't much of a way for
it to fall out.
And you will get max stroke and save the throwout bearing.
Gary



On 5/28/2021 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:

Jerry

                I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on
the clutch rod - just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.

 

If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.

I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this
should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car. 

 

Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers  <mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>
<tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry Christopherson
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
To: Tiger Autox  <mailto:TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET> <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue

 

Thanks for the ideas from all of you.  The issue of a longer push rod (which
I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing
just so far.  Right now I'm touching the bearing (which I don't want of
course).  Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and
slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I'll try driving the car
tomorrow to see if it's livable. I let someone talk me into a  RAM clutch,
should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?  Rick from S. S. said people have
had good luck with them.   I'm now of the feeling if you aren't racing, a
standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger.  The idea of a
higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will
make the peddle force higher.  Another issue is how far can one allow the
slave  piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not
have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).  Mine has a max
movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300 ,but that
would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder,
probably not a good thing!

Thanks again for your responses!  Jerry





_______________________________________________
 
tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net> 
 
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
 
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri May 28 10:50:16 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 16:50:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <002301d753d9$10fcf1a0$32f6d4e0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d75376$60e29f70$22a7de50$@suddenlink.net>
 <000701d753bb$b0a879e0$11f96da0$@bluefrog.com>
 <03ff351f-da4c-27db-bc95-3f75f68aefa7@comcast.net>
 <002301d753d9$10fcf1a0$32f6d4e0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <1739505421.671247.1622220616555@mail.yahoo.com>

This whole discussion is part of the reason why I went to an annular throwout bearing on my car a number of years ago. The other reason was I just didn't like the affect all the external slave/arm geometry creates. I've been very happy with the change.?


-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
To: 'Gary' <garywinblad at comcast.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 8:50 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue

#yiv4255645540 #yiv4255645540 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv4255645540 #yiv4255645540 p.yiv4255645540MsoNormal, #yiv4255645540 li.yiv4255645540MsoNormal, #yiv4255645540 div.yiv4255645540MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv4255645540 a:link, #yiv4255645540 span.yiv4255645540MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4255645540 pre {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv4255645540 span.yiv4255645540HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;}#yiv4255645540 span.yiv4255645540EmailStyle21 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv4255645540 .yiv4255645540MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv4255645540 div.yiv4255645540WordSection1 {}#yiv4255645540 
Gary

??????????????? My point here is that if you drop the clutch rod you?re not going anywhere.

 ?

Your spring with the stock clip is excellent but what if something unexpected happens.

Rust happens, road debris happens, cylinder rubber seals degrade happens, many things can happen out on the road.

 ?

Call it safety wire or tether wire, I want to make sure not matter what the clutch rod is not lost and I have to be towed.

Safety wire is usually stainless steel so it should not rust and it is just there with no tension or flexing, its just along for the ride until its needed.

 ?

Ron Fraser

 ?

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Gary
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 10:10 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue

 ?

I've never heard of safety wire but if you have the stock clip to hold the rod to the clutch arm,
and you add a return spring to the clutch arm, there isn't much of a way for it to fall out.
And you will get max stroke and save the throwout bearing.
Gary



On 5/28/2021 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:


Jerry

??????????????? I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on the clutch rod ? just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.

?

If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.

I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car. 

?

Ron Fraser

?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry Christopherson
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue

?

Thanks for the ideas from all of you.? The issue of a longer push rod (which I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing just so far.? Right now I?m touching the bearing (which I don?t want of course).? Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I?ll try driving the car tomorrow to see if it?s livable. I let someone talk me into a ?RAM clutch, should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?? Rick from S. S. said people have had good luck with them. ??I?m now of the feeling if you aren?t racing, a standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger. ?The idea of a higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will make the peddle force higher.? Another issue is how far can one allow the slave? piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).? Mine has a max movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300 ,but that would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder, probably not a good thing!

Thanks again for your responses!? Jerry




_______________________________________________ ?tigers at autox.team.net ?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive ?Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net ? ?

 ?
_______________________________________________

tigers at autox.team.net

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

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From dave at munroe.ca  Fri May 28 10:55:48 2021
From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 13:55:48 -0300
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <002301d753d9$10fcf1a0$32f6d4e0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <000001d75376$60e29f70$22a7de50$@suddenlink.net>
 <000701d753bb$b0a879e0$11f96da0$@bluefrog.com>
 <03ff351f-da4c-27db-bc95-3f75f68aefa7@comcast.net>
 <002301d753d9$10fcf1a0$32f6d4e0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <CA+mjxLHV87ZX+A74ayhi6ERTGcgePyYWgfh1ZXQXF=YO_pFuuA@mail.gmail.com>

Re: the Centerforce Clutch:

I have had two of them and highly approve of and recommend them.
They come rated for the amount of power your engine produces.
My first one was installed on my stock 289 Block, but later on I got
carried away and had it rebuilt into a 331 cu in 318hp unit.
It now exceeded the rating of my first Centerforce unit, so I replaced it
with one rated for 400hp.
Both worked flawlessly,  and the pedal pressure is light enough to be
comfortable for my 130# wife to use without complaint.

Excellent units!

Dave in Nova Scotia
B382000450LRXFE  1965 Tiger


On Fri, May 28, 2021, 12:50 PM Ron Fraser via Tigers, <tigers at autox.team.net>
wrote:

> Gary
>
>                 My point here is that if you drop the clutch rod you?re
> not going anywhere.
>
>
>
> Your spring with the stock clip is excellent but what if something
> unexpected happens.
>
> Rust happens, road debris happens, cylinder rubber seals degrade happens,
> many things can happen out on the road.
>
>
>
> Call it safety wire or tether wire, I want to make sure not matter what
> the clutch rod is not lost and I have to be towed.
>
> Safety wire is usually stainless steel so it should not rust and it is
> just there with no tension or flexing, its just along for the ride until
> its needed.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Gary
> *Sent:* Friday, May 28, 2021 10:10 AM
> *To:* tigers at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
>
>
>
> I've never heard of safety wire but if you have the stock clip to hold the
> rod to the clutch arm,
> and you add a return spring to the clutch arm, there isn't much of a way
> for it to fall out.
> And you will get max stroke and save the throwout bearing.
> Gary
>
> On 5/28/2021 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:
>
> Jerry
>
>                 I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on
> the clutch rod ? just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.
>
>
>
> If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.
>
> I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this
> should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net>
> <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Jerry Christopherson
> *Sent:* Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
> *To:* Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET> <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] Clutch issue
>
>
>
> Thanks for the ideas from all of you.  The issue of a longer push rod
> (which I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out
> bearing just so far.  Right now I?m touching the bearing (which I don?t
> want of course).  Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the
> master and slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I?ll try driving
> the car tomorrow to see if it?s livable. I let someone talk me into a  RAM
> clutch, should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?  Rick from S. S. said
> people have had good luck with them.   I?m now of the feeling if you aren?t
> racing, a standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger.  The
> idea of a higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is
> that it will make the peddle force higher.  Another issue is how far can
> one allow the slave  piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder
> (mine does not have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).  Mine
> has a max movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300
> ,but that would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the
> cylinder, probably not a good thing!
>
> Thanks again for your responses!  Jerry
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/dave at munroe.ca
>
>
>
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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri May 28 13:55:02 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 12:55:02 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <002301d753d9$10fcf1a0$32f6d4e0$@bluefrog.com>
References: <002301d753d9$10fcf1a0$32f6d4e0$@bluefrog.com>
Message-ID: <87932C81-7015-4237-BC46-3CB3B5D18AB3@comcast.net>

Ron,
Yeah, a little extra protection can?t hurt.
I don?t really see the need but then I never 
expected my whole clutch arm to fall out
either but that DID happen.
Gary


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Gary
>                 My point here is that if you drop the clutch rod you?re not going anywhere.
>  
> Your spring with the stock clip is excellent but what if something unexpected happens.
> Rust happens, road debris happens, cylinder rubber seals degrade happens, many things can happen out on the road.
>  
> Call it safety wire or tether wire, I want to make sure not matter what the clutch rod is not lost and I have to be towed.
> Safety wire is usually stainless steel so it should not rust and it is just there with no tension or flexing, its just along for the ride until its needed.
>  
> Ron Fraser
>  
>  
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Gary
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 10:10 AM
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
>  
> I've never heard of safety wire but if you have the stock clip to hold the rod to the clutch arm,
> and you add a return spring to the clutch arm, there isn't much of a way for it to fall out.
> And you will get max stroke and save the throwout bearing.
> Gary
> 
> 
> On 5/28/2021 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:
> Jerry
>                 I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on the clutch rod ? just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.
>  
> If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.
> I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car.
>  
> Ron Fraser
>  
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry Christopherson
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
> To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
>  
> Thanks for the ideas from all of you.  The issue of a longer push rod (which I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing just so far.  Right now I?m touching the bearing (which I don?t want of course).  Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I?ll try driving the car tomorrow to see if it?s livable. I let someone talk me into a  RAM clutch, should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?  Rick from S. S. said people have had good luck with them.   I?m now of the feeling if you aren?t racing, a standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger.  The idea of a higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will make the peddle force higher.  Another issue is how far can one allow the slave  piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).  Mine has a max movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300 ,but that would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder, probably not a good thing!
> Thanks again for your responses!  Jerry
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
>  
> tigers at autox.team.net
>  
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>  
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
>  
>  
>  
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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri May 28 14:01:38 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 13:01:38 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <1739505421.671247.1622220616555@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1739505421.671247.1622220616555@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <11BD89CF-B04E-403A-A254-5130CCF0F6F7@comcast.net>

Mike,
Which one did you go with?
Paul R. told me Tom doesn?t recommend them anymore?
It seems like a great solution to me.
  Everyone always points out how hard it is
to replace it when it goes bad but it would
 be a lot easier than the one in my C5 and I
did have to do that but it lasted 120K.
Gary


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> This whole discussion is part of the reason why I went to an annular throwout bearing on my car a number of years ago. The other reason was I just didn't like the affect all the external slave/arm geometry creates. I've been very happy with the change. 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> To: 'Gary' <garywinblad at comcast.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 8:50 am
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
> Gary
> 
>                 My point here is that if you drop the clutch rod you?re not going anywhere.
> 
>  
> 
> Your spring with the stock clip is excellent but what if something unexpected happens.
> 
> Rust happens, road debris happens, cylinder rubber seals degrade happens, many things can happen out on the road.
> 
>  
> 
> Call it safety wire or tether wire, I want to make sure not matter what the clutch rod is not lost and I have to be towed.
> 
> Safety wire is usually stainless steel so it should not rust and it is just there with no tension or flexing, its just along for the ride until its needed.
> 
>  
> 
> Ron Fraser
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Gary
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 10:10 AM
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
>  
> 
> I've never heard of safety wire but if you have the stock clip to hold the rod to the clutch arm,
> and you add a return spring to the clutch arm, there isn't much of a way for it to fall out.
> And you will get max stroke and save the throwout bearing.
> Gary
> 
> 
> On 5/28/2021 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:
> 
> Jerry
> 
>                 I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on the clutch rod ? just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.
> 
>  
> 
> If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.
> 
> I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car.
> 
>  
> 
> Ron Fraser
> 
>  
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry Christopherson
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
> To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks for the ideas from all of you.  The issue of a longer push rod (which I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing just so far.  Right now I?m touching the bearing (which I don?t want of course).  Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I?ll try driving the car tomorrow to see if it?s livable. I let someone talk me into a  RAM clutch, should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?  Rick from S. S. said people have had good luck with them.   I?m now of the feeling if you aren?t racing, a standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger.  The idea of a higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will make the peddle force higher.  Another issue is how far can one allow the slave  piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).  Mine has a max movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300 ,but that would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder, probably not a good thing!
> 
> Thanks again for your responses!  Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
>   
> tigers at autox.team.net
>   
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
>   
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net
>   
>   
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com
> 
> 
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri May 28 15:00:50 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 21:00:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <11BD89CF-B04E-403A-A254-5130CCF0F6F7@comcast.net>
References: <1739505421.671247.1622220616555@mail.yahoo.com>
 <11BD89CF-B04E-403A-A254-5130CCF0F6F7@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1268347204.729478.1622235650703@mail.yahoo.com>

Gary, we prototyped an Aussie Ford factory part (I think Thomo found it, originally) on my car, along with a Centerforce clutch. After six years and thousands of miles (my car gets driven a lot), it continues to work flawlessly. What I really like is how linear/smooth it feels. I've also run annular TO bearings on numerous formula cars I've raced with good reliability.?I hadn't heard Tom wasn't using them anymore. Wonder why??


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>
To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
Cc: Tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 1:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue

Mike,Which one did you go with?Paul R. told me Tom doesn?t recommend them anymore?It seems like a great solution to me.??Everyone always points out how hard it isto replace it when it goes bad but it would?be a lot easier than the one in my C5 and Idid have to do that but it lasted 120K.Gary

Sent from my iPhone

On May 28, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote:



?This whole discussion is part of the reason why I went to an annular throwout bearing on my car a number of years ago. The other reason was I just didn't like the affect all the external slave/arm geometry creates. I've been very happy with the change.?


-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
To: 'Gary' <garywinblad at comcast.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 8:50 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue

#yiv5687852743 -- filtered {}#yiv5687852743 filtered {}#yiv5687852743 filtered {}#yiv5687852743 p.yiv5687852743MsoNormal, #yiv5687852743 li.yiv5687852743MsoNormal, #yiv5687852743 div.yiv5687852743MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv5687852743 a:link, #yiv5687852743 span.yiv5687852743MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5687852743 pre {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5687852743 span.yiv5687852743HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;}#yiv5687852743 span.yiv5687852743EmailStyle21 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv5687852743 .yiv5687852743MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5687852743 filtered {}#yiv5687852743 div.yiv5687852743WordSection1 {}#yiv5687852743 
Gary

??????????????? My point here is that if you drop the clutch rod you?re not going anywhere.

 ?

Your spring with the stock clip is excellent but what if something unexpected happens.

Rust happens, road debris happens, cylinder rubber seals degrade happens, many things can happen out on the road.

 ?

Call it safety wire or tether wire, I want to make sure not matter what the clutch rod is not lost and I have to be towed.

Safety wire is usually stainless steel so it should not rust and it is just there with no tension or flexing, its just along for the ride until its needed.

 ?

Ron Fraser

 ?

 ?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Gary
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 10:10 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue

 ?

I've never heard of safety wire but if you have the stock clip to hold the rod to the clutch arm,
and you add a return spring to the clutch arm, there isn't much of a way for it to fall out.
And you will get max stroke and save the throwout bearing.
Gary



On 5/28/2021 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:


Jerry

??????????????? I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on the clutch rod ? just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.

?

If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.

I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car. 

?

Ron Fraser

?

From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry Christopherson
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue

?

Thanks for the ideas from all of you.? The issue of a longer push rod (which I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing just so far.? Right now I?m touching the bearing (which I don?t want of course).? Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I?ll try driving the car tomorrow to see if it?s livable. I let someone talk me into a ?RAM clutch, should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?? Rick from S. S. said people have had good luck with them. ??I?m now of the feeling if you aren?t racing, a standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger. ?The idea of a higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will make the peddle force higher.? Another issue is how far can one allow the slave? piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).? Mine has a max movement of around 1.350, The piston could come out another .300 ,but that would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder, probably not a good thing!

Thanks again for your responses!? Jerry




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 ?
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From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Fri May 28 15:49:36 2021
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry Christopherson)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 16:49:36 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
Message-ID: <006801d7540b$5a3623f0$0ea26bd0$@suddenlink.net>

Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and cylinder
kits didn't solve my problem) and thought I would pass on info for anybody
that is interested.

The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to the floor
movement of the clutch peddle is .745".  The measure of the piston movement
from the very back to when the piston comes to the very front of the
cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned before is 1.35", so that
leaves approximately .605" more potential movement to apply to the clutch
arm.  I'm hoping the .700 Girling master cylinder I just ordered will take
up just that amount. I can only hope.  HA!  If not I'll pull the engine and
tranny again and get a CF clutch.  As for a annular TO bearing, my friend
has a highly modified Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a
annular TO bearing and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I
would be very interested in why TH doesn't like them anymore.

Jerry  

 

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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri May 28 18:22:14 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 00:22:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <006801d7540b$5a3623f0$0ea26bd0$@suddenlink.net>
References: <006801d7540b$5a3623f0$0ea26bd0$@suddenlink.net>
Message-ID: <2072558049.648298.1622247734599@mail.yahoo.com>

I just talked to Tom. He's still using and recommending use of a hydraulic/annular TO bearing. But, he won't use the McLeod piece, only Tilton, these days.?
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Christopherson <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 2:50 pm
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue

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Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and cylinder kits didn?t solve my problem) and thought I would pass on info for anybody that is interested.

The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to the floor movement of the clutch peddle is .745?.? The measure of the piston movement from the very back to when the piston comes to the very front of the cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned before is 1.35?, so that leaves approximately .605? more potential movement to apply to the clutch arm.? I?m hoping the .700 Girling master cylinder I just ordered will take up just that amount. I can only hope.? HA!? If not I?ll pull the engine and tranny again and get a CF clutch.? As for a annular TO bearing, my friend has a highly modified Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a annular TO bearing and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I would be very interested in why TH doesn?t like them anymore.

Jerry? 

?
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From Timothy.Ronak at akzonobel.com  Fri May 28 19:20:56 2021
From: Timothy.Ronak at akzonobel.com (Ronak, T. (Timothy))
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 01:20:56 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 69
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3001.1622247744.3751.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3001.1622247744.3751.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <24CA8641-0841-482A-8155-5D5DCC3FEF22@akzonobel.com>

I used to run the Centerforce Gold Dual Friction and it worked awesome with the 349 stroker but I do recall reinforcing the clutch arm as it had been damaged by the Heavy Duty Macleod clutch that was way too stiff and bent the arm due to force. The centerforce held up to the 381 wheel HP and 405 lb ft at the wheel. Pedal felt  like a Honda Civic clutch.

Stay Smiling ... 
Tim Ronak
Senior Services Consultant
AkzoNobel Automotive and Aerospace Coatings

 ?If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past.? - Master Po - TV's Kung Fu

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2021, at 5:25 PM, tigers-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
> ?Send Tigers mailing list submissions to
>    tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    tigers-request at autox.team.net
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    tigers-owner at autox.team.net
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Clutch issue (Michael Wood)
>   2. Clutch issue (Jerry Christopherson)
>   3. Re: Clutch issue (Michael Wood)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 21:00:50 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
> To: "garywinblad at comcast.net" <garywinblad at comcast.net>
> Cc: "Tigers at autox.team.net" <Tigers at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> Message-ID: <1268347204.729478.1622235650703 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Gary, we prototyped an Aussie Ford factory part (I think Thomo found it, originally) on my car, along with a Centerforce clutch. After six years and thousands of miles (my car gets driven a lot), it continues to work flawlessly. What I really like is how linear/smooth it feels. I've also run annular TO bearings on numerous formula cars I've raced with good reliability.?I hadn't heard Tom wasn't using them anymore. Wonder why??
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>
> To: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
> Cc: Tigers at autox.team.net
> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 1:01 pm
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
> Mike,Which one did you go with?Paul R. told me Tom doesn?t recommend them anymore?It seems like a great solution to me.??Everyone always points out how hard it isto replace it when it goes bad but it would?be a lot easier than the one in my C5 and Idid have to do that but it lasted 120K.Gary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 28, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ?This whole discussion is part of the reason why I went to an annular throwout bearing on my car a number of years ago. The other reason was I just didn't like the affect all the external slave/arm geometry creates. I've been very happy with the change.?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net>
> To: 'Gary' <garywinblad at comcast.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 8:50 am
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
> #yiv5687852743 -- filtered {}#yiv5687852743 filtered {}#yiv5687852743 filtered {}#yiv5687852743 p.yiv5687852743MsoNormal, #yiv5687852743 li.yiv5687852743MsoNormal, #yiv5687852743 div.yiv5687852743MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv5687852743 a:link, #yiv5687852743 span.yiv5687852743MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5687852743 pre {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5687852743 span.yiv5687852743HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;}#yiv5687852743 span.yiv5687852743EmailStyle21 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv5687852743 .yiv5687852743MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv5687852743 filtered {}#yiv5687852743 div.yiv5687852743WordSection1 {}#yiv5687852743 
> Gary
> 
> ??????????????? My point here is that if you drop the clutch rod you?re not going anywhere.
> 
> ?
> 
> Your spring with the stock clip is excellent but what if something unexpected happens.
> 
> Rust happens, road debris happens, cylinder rubber seals degrade happens, many things can happen out on the road.
> 
> ?
> 
> Call it safety wire or tether wire, I want to make sure not matter what the clutch rod is not lost and I have to be towed.
> 
> Safety wire is usually stainless steel so it should not rust and it is just there with no tension or flexing, its just along for the ride until its needed.
> 
> ?
> 
> Ron Fraser
> 
> ?
> 
> ?
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Gary
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 10:10 AM
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
> ?
> 
> I've never heard of safety wire but if you have the stock clip to hold the rod to the clutch arm,
> and you add a return spring to the clutch arm, there isn't much of a way for it to fall out.
> And you will get max stroke and save the throwout bearing.
> Gary
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/28/2021 5:19 AM, Ron Fraser wrote:
> 
> 
> Jerry
> 
> ??????????????? I always recommend that everyone should put safety wire on the clutch rod ? just in case the rod gets into a position it could fall.
> 
> ?
> 
> If the clutch rod falls out your basically a tow it away car.
> 
> I think I have a safety wire on the clutch rod to the clutch fork; this should prevent the rod from ever totally leaving the car. 
> 
> ?
> 
> Ron Fraser
> 
> ?
> 
> From: Tigers <tigers-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jerry Christopherson
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 12:03 AM
> To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
> ?
> 
> Thanks for the ideas from all of you.? The issue of a longer push rod (which I have, 4.5 inches) is that you can only go up against the throw out bearing just so far.? Right now I?m touching the bearing (which I don?t want of course).? Today I received my order from S.S. (new kits for the master and slave) and it seems to have improved the issue, I?ll try driving the car tomorrow to see if it?s livable. I let someone talk me into a ?RAM clutch, should have gone with a Centerforce maybe?? Rick from S. S. said people have had good luck with them. ??I?m now of the feeling if you aren?t racing, a standard Mustang clutch is more than enough for the Tiger. ?The idea of a higher volume (larger dia.) master also suggested by Rick, is that it will make the peddle force higher.? Another issue is how far can one allow the slave? piston to travel without coming out of the cylinder (mine does not have the retaining clip like it shoes in the manual).? Mine has a max movement of around 1.350, The p
> iston could come out another .300 ,but that would have the front of the piston .300 past the end of the cylinder, probably not a good thing!
> 
> Thanks again for your responses!? Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ ?tigers at autox.team.net ?Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive ?Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad at comcast.net ? ?
> 
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 16:49:36 -0500
> From: "Jerry Christopherson" <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
> To: "Tiger Autox" <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> Message-ID: <006801d7540b$5a3623f0$0ea26bd0$@suddenlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and cylinder
> kits didn't solve my problem) and thought I would pass on info for anybody
> that is interested.
> 
> The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to the floor
> movement of the clutch peddle is .745".  The measure of the piston movement
> from the very back to when the piston comes to the very front of the
> cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned before is 1.35", so that
> leaves approximately .605" more potential movement to apply to the clutch
> arm.  I'm hoping the .700 Girling master cylinder I just ordered will take
> up just that amount. I can only hope.  HA!  If not I'll pull the engine and
> tranny again and get a CF clutch.  As for a annular TO bearing, my friend
> has a highly modified Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a
> annular TO bearing and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I
> would be very interested in why TH doesn't like them anymore.
> 
> Jerry  
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 00:22:14 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
> To: "JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net" <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>,
>    "TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET" <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> Message-ID: <2072558049.648298.1622247734599 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I just talked to Tom. He's still using and recommending use of a hydraulic/annular TO bearing. But, he won't use the McLeod piece, only Tilton, these days.?
> Mike
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Christopherson <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
> To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 2:50 pm
> Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
> <!--#yiv0573246600 _filtered {}#yiv0573246600 #yiv0573246600 p.yiv0573246600MsoNormal, #yiv0573246600 li.yiv0573246600MsoNormal, #yiv0573246600 div.yiv0573246600MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";}#yiv0573246600 a:link, #yiv0573246600 span.yiv0573246600MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0573246600 a:visited, #yiv0573246600 span.yiv0573246600MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0573246600 span.yiv0573246600EmailStyle17 {font-family:"Arial", "sans-serif";color:windowtext;}#yiv0573246600 .yiv0573246600MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";} _filtered {}#yiv0573246600 div.yiv0573246600WordSection1 {}-->
> Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and cylinder kits didn?t solve my problem) and thought I would pass on info for anybody that is interested.
> 
> The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to the floor movement of the clutch peddle is .745?.? The measure of the piston movement from the very back to when the piston comes to the very front of the cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned before is 1.35?, so that leaves approximately .605? more potential movement to apply to the clutch arm.? I?m hoping the .700 Girling master cylinder I just ordered will take up just that amount. I can only hope.? HA!? If not I?ll pull the engine and tranny again and get a CF clutch.? As for a annular TO bearing, my friend has a highly modified Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a annular TO bearing and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I would be very interested in why TH doesn?t like them anymore.
> 
> Jerry? 
> 
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
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> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tigers mailing list
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Tigers Digest, Vol 14, Issue 69
> **************************************

From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri May 28 19:49:39 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 18:49:39 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <2072558049.648298.1622247734599@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <006801d7540b$5a3623f0$0ea26bd0$@suddenlink.net>
 <2072558049.648298.1622247734599@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <169be614-efcb-ba01-e90a-b15feaf64305@comcast.net>

Thanks Mike,
Ok, yeah he was recommending the McCleod with his mod to the fittings...
Paul Reisentz also told me that McCLeod themselves did not recommend 
their part for use in Tigers!

Tilton..? or are there any more details on your Australian job?
Gary

On 5/28/2021 5:22 PM, Michael Wood via Tigers wrote:
> I just talked to Tom. He's still using and recommending use of a 
> hydraulic/annular TO bearing. But, he won't use the McLeod piece, only 
> Tilton, these days.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Christopherson <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
> To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 2:50 pm
> Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
>
> Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and 
> cylinder kits didn?t solve my problem) and thought I would pass on 
> info for anybody that is interested.
>
> The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to the 
> floor movement of the clutch peddle is .745?.? The measure of the 
> piston movement from the very back to when the piston comes to the 
> very front of the cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned before 
> is 1.35?, so that leaves approximately .605? more potential movement 
> to apply to the clutch arm.? I?m hoping the .700 Girling master 
> cylinder I just ordered will take up just that amount. I can only 
> hope.? HA!? If not I?ll pull the engine and tranny again and get a CF 
> clutch.? As for a annular TO bearing, my friend has a highly modified 
> Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a annular TO bearing 
> and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I would be very 
> interested in why TH doesn?t like them anymore.
>
> Jerry
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> tigers at autox.team.net
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Fri May 28 20:24:31 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 02:24:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <169be614-efcb-ba01-e90a-b15feaf64305@comcast.net>
References: <006801d7540b$5a3623f0$0ea26bd0$@suddenlink.net>
 <2072558049.648298.1622247734599@mail.yahoo.com>
 <169be614-efcb-ba01-e90a-b15feaf64305@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1563877525.754260.1622255071046@mail.yahoo.com>

Gary, the McLeod in "Blue" (Tom's med blue car) is still going strong after 25 years, so I'm not sure why he bailed. I think it is mostly because he's had no complaints about the Tilton and likes doing the conversion using their 7/8" master.?



-----Original Message-----
From: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 6:50 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue

 Thanks Mike,
 Ok, yeah he was recommending the McCleod with his mod to the fittings...
 Paul Reisentz also told me that McCLeod themselves did not recommend their part for use in Tigers!
 
 Tilton..? or are there any more details on your Australian job?
 Gary
 
 On 5/28/2021 5:22 PM, Michael Wood via Tigers wrote:
  
 
 I just talked to Tom. He's still using and recommending use of a hydraulic/annular TO bearing. But, he won't use the McLeod piece, only Tilton, these days.? 
  Mike
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Jerry Christopherson <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
 To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
 Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 2:50 pm
 Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
 
   #yiv8877381035 filtered {}#yiv8877381035 p.yiv8877381035MsoNormal, #yiv8877381035 li.yiv8877381035MsoNormal, #yiv8877381035 div.yiv8877381035MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv8877381035 a:link, #yiv8877381035 span.yiv8877381035MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8877381035 a:visited, #yiv8877381035 span.yiv8877381035MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8877381035 span.yiv8877381035EmailStyle17 {color:windowtext;}#yiv8877381035 .yiv8877381035MsoChpDefault {}#yiv8877381035 filtered {}#yiv8877381035 div.yiv8877381035WordSection1 {}   
Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and cylinder kits didn?t solve my problem) and thought I would pass on info for anybody that is interested.
 
The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to the floor movement of the clutch peddle is .745?.? The measure of the piston movement from the very back to when the piston comes to the very front of the cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned before is 1.35?, so that leaves approximately .605? more potential movement to apply to the clutch arm.? I?m hoping the .700 Girling master cylinder I just ordered will take up just that amount. I can only hope.? HA!? If not I?ll pull the engine and tranny again and get a CF clutch.? As for a annular TO bearing, my friend has a highly modified Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a annular TO bearing and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I would be very interested in why TH doesn?t like them anymore.
 
Jerry? 
 
?
    _______________________________________________
 
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 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
 
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From tsmit at shaw.ca  Fri May 28 20:55:03 2021
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 20:55:03 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <1563877525.754260.1622255071046@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1563877525.754260.1622255071046@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1837200278.85212686.1622256903666.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet>

I ended up making an anti-rotation bracket that located the McLeod throwout bearing and kept it from pulling on the swivel fittings. Without that, the fittings would leak a bit of fluid every time you applied the clutch with the engine running. 
Theo

> On May 28, 2021, at 8:25 PM, Michael Wood via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Gary, the McLeod in "Blue" (Tom's med blue car) is still going strong after 25 years, so I'm not sure why he bailed. I think it is mostly because he's had no complaints about the Tilton and likes doing the conversion using their 7/8" master. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 6:50 pm
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
> Thanks Mike,
> Ok, yeah he was recommending the McCleod with his mod to the fittings...
> Paul Reisentz also told me that McCLeod themselves did not recommend their part for use in Tigers!
> 
> Tilton..  or are there any more details on your Australian job?
> Gary
> 
> On 5/28/2021 5:22 PM, Michael Wood via Tigers wrote:
> 
> I just talked to Tom. He's still using and recommending use of a hydraulic/annular TO bearing. But, he won't use the McLeod piece, only Tilton, these days. 
> 
> Mike
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Christopherson <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
> To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 2:50 pm
> Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
> 
> Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and cylinder kits didn?t solve my problem) and thought I would pass on info for anybody that is interested.
> The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to the floor movement of the clutch peddle is .745?.  The measure of the piston movement from the very back to when the piston comes to the very front of the cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned before is 1.35?, so that leaves approximately .605? more potential movement to apply to the clutch arm.  I?m hoping the .700 Girling master cylinder I just ordered will take up just that amount. I can only hope.  HA!  If not I?ll pull the engine and tranny again and get a CF clutch.  As for a annular TO bearing, my friend has a highly modified Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a annular TO bearing and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I would be very interested in why TH doesn?t like them anymore.
> Jerry 
>  
> _______________________________________________
> 
> tigers at autox.team.net
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
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> 
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> 
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From garywinblad at comcast.net  Fri May 28 21:28:09 2021
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (Gary)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 20:28:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <1837200278.85212686.1622256903666.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet>
References: <1563877525.754260.1622255071046@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1837200278.85212686.1622256903666.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet>
Message-ID: <0d8e9f6a-20f7-3e1b-65ae-09e29498d495@comcast.net>

Hi Theo!
Interesting.? Steve Wickland has the McLeod in his Tiger.? He has been 
complaining about it for some time, I forget but I think his is causing
the clutch to slip.? Tom Hall recommended to use hard line and fittings 
because the McLeod swivel ones leak (IIRC).
Gary


On 5/28/2021 7:55 PM, Theo Smit wrote:
> I ended up making an anti-rotation bracket that located the McLeod 
> throwout bearing and kept it from pulling on the swivel fittings. 
> Without that, the fittings would leak a bit of fluid every time you 
> applied the clutch with the engine running.
> Theo
>
>> On May 28, 2021, at 8:25 PM, Michael Wood via Tigers 
>> <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Gary, the McLeod in "Blue" (Tom's med blue car) is still going strong 
>> after 25 years, so I'm not sure why he bailed. I think it is mostly 
>> because he's had no complaints about the Tilton and likes doing the 
>> conversion using their 7/8" master.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>
>> To: tigers at autox.team.net
>> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 6:50 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
>>
>> Thanks Mike,
>> Ok, yeah he was recommending the McCleod with his mod to the fittings...
>> Paul Reisentz also told me that McCLeod themselves did not recommend 
>> their part for use in Tigers!
>>
>> Tilton..? or are there any more details on your Australian job?
>> Gary
>>
>> On 5/28/2021 5:22 PM, Michael Wood via Tigers wrote:
>> I just talked to Tom. He's still using and recommending use of a 
>> hydraulic/annular TO bearing. But, he won't use the McLeod piece, 
>> only Tilton, these days.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jerry Christopherson <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net> 
>> <mailto:JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
>> To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET> <mailto:TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
>> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 2:50 pm
>> Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
>>
>> Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and 
>> cylinder kits didn?t solve my problem) and thought I would pass on 
>> info for anybody that is interested.
>>
>> The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to 
>> the floor movement of the clutch peddle is .745?.? The measure of the 
>> piston movement from the very back to when the piston comes to the 
>> very front of the cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned 
>> before is 1.35?, so that leaves approximately .605? more potential 
>> movement to apply to the clutch arm.? I?m hoping the .700 Girling 
>> master cylinder I just ordered will take up just that amount. I can 
>> only hope.? HA!? If not I?ll pull the engine and tranny again and get 
>> a CF clutch.? As for a annular TO bearing, my friend has a highly 
>> modified Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a annular 
>> TO bearing and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I 
>> would be very interested in why TH doesn?t like them anymore.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers 
>> <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers>http://autox.team.net/archive 
>> <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com 
>> <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers at autox.team.net  <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>>
>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html  <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers>  http://autox.team.net/archive  <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> tigers at autox.team.net <mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
>>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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From mwood24020 at aol.com  Sat May 29 10:01:20 2021
From: mwood24020 at aol.com (Michael Wood)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 16:01:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
In-Reply-To: <0d8e9f6a-20f7-3e1b-65ae-09e29498d495@comcast.net>
References: <1563877525.754260.1622255071046@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1837200278.85212686.1622256903666.JavaMail.zimbra@cds218.dcs.int.inet>
 <0d8e9f6a-20f7-3e1b-65ae-09e29498d495@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <681660861.815761.1622304080864@mail.yahoo.com>

For sure, there's been some trial and error in getting the hydraulic TO bearing set up right over the last 20 years or so. But, once dialed in, I believe it is a much better solution. I've never liked the slave/lever arm throw out deal, although it works much better with a diaphragm clutch than the old three finger long style.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>
To: Theo Smit <tsmit at shaw.ca>; Michael Wood <mwood24020 at aol.com>
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 8:28 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue

 Hi Theo!
 Interesting.? Steve Wickland has the McLeod in his Tiger.? He has been complaining about it for some time, I forget but I think his is causing
 the clutch to slip.? Tom Hall recommended to use hard line and fittings because the McLeod swivel ones leak (IIRC).
 Gary
 
 
 On 5/28/2021 7:55 PM, Theo Smit wrote:
  
 
I ended up making an anti-rotation bracket that located the McLeod throwout bearing and kept it from pulling on the swivel fittings. Without that, the fittings would leak a bit of fluid every time you applied the clutch with the engine running.? Theo 
 
On May 28, 2021, at 8:25 PM, Michael Wood via Tigers <tigers at autox.team.net> wrote:
 
 
  
 ?  Gary, the McLeod in "Blue" (Tom's med blue car) is still going strong after 25 years, so I'm not sure why he bailed. I think it is mostly because he's had no complaints about the Tilton and likes doing the conversion using their 7/8" master.? 
  
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Gary <garywinblad at comcast.net>
 To: tigers at autox.team.net
 Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 6:50 pm
 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clutch issue
 
    Thanks Mike,
 Ok, yeah he was recommending the McCleod with his mod to the fittings...
 Paul Reisentz also told me that McCLeod themselves did not recommend their part for use in Tigers!
 
 Tilton..? or are there any more details on your Australian job?
 Gary
 
  On 5/28/2021 5:22 PM, Michael Wood via Tigers wrote:
  
 
      I just talked to Tom. He's still using and recommending use of a hydraulic/annular TO bearing. But, he won't use the McLeod piece, only Tilton, these days.? 
  Mike
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Jerry Christopherson <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
 To: Tiger Autox <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
 Sent: Fri, May 28, 2021 2:50 pm
 Subject: [Tigers] Clutch issue
 
   #yiv0105590537 filtered {}#yiv0105590537 p.yiv0105590537MsoNormal, #yiv0105590537 li.yiv0105590537MsoNormal, #yiv0105590537 div.yiv0105590537MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv0105590537 a:link, #yiv0105590537 span.yiv0105590537MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0105590537 a:visited, #yiv0105590537 span.yiv0105590537MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0105590537 span.yiv0105590537EmailStyle17 {color:windowtext;}#yiv0105590537 .yiv0105590537MsoChpDefault {}#yiv0105590537 filtered {}#yiv0105590537 div.yiv0105590537WordSection1 {}   
Well, I did some measuring today (by the way the new clutch and cylinder kits didn?t solve my problem) and thought I would pass on info for anybody that is interested.
 
The actual amount of movement of the slave cylinder with a full to the floor movement of the clutch peddle is .745?.? The measure of the piston movement from the very back to when the piston comes to the very front of the cylinder (not protruding) is like I mentioned before is 1.35?, so that leaves approximately .605? more potential movement to apply to the clutch arm.? I?m hoping the .700 Girling master cylinder I just ordered will take up just that amount. I can only hope.? HA!? If not I?ll pull the engine and tranny again and get a CF clutch.? As for a annular TO bearing, my friend has a highly modified Mazda with a 331 Ford engine for road racing with a annular TO bearing and it works very well with the stock master cylinder. I would be very interested in why TH doesn?t like them anymore.
 
Jerry? 
 
?
    _______________________________________________
 
 tigers at autox.team.net
 
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
 
 Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020 at aol.com
 
 
  
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