From bob at hermitagewood.com Thu May 1 06:15:57 2008 From: bob at hermitagewood.com (Bob) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 07:15:57 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] MC bore In-Reply-To: <002701c8ab4b$2e873950$8b95abf0$@com> References: <002901c8aa2d$1c3477f0$2a50010a@in.dynetics.com> <002701c8ab4b$2e873950$8b95abf0$@com> Message-ID: <4819B47D.4090007@hermitagewood.com> The bolt that broke was not the pressure plate to flywheel attaching bolts, but was instead a bolt on the pressure plate nearer the center. It retained the pivot for the 'fingers' that cause the plate to retract when the throwout bearing was extended. A master cylinder that is too large will extend the clutch fork and throwout bearing too far, which can stress those bolts until one breaks (which it did in my case). It was a nice high quality hayes pressure plate too, not a cheapie. The larger bore master (because it moves the slave further per unit of stroke on the master) then has a higher pressure required by your foot, hence my suggestion to verify both cylinders if the pressure is unduly high. --Bob '66 Tiger 382000782 Robert Palmer wrote: > The master cylinder and slave cylinder bores have nothing to do with the > force on the pressure plate bolts - just the pressure on your foot. > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Bob > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:14 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] MC bore > > I'm not sure on the master cylinder size off of the top of my head, but > anyone with this problem should verify the master and slave cylinders are > the correct size. My wheel alignment guy once told me 'It takes two men > and a boy to work that clutch'. I was 20 years old and thought nothing of > it, it was what it was. Years later, the bolts in the pressure plate broke > due to over-actuating the clutch (MC too big, or slave too small). When I > fixed both the hydraulics and the pressure plate, the car was much easier to > drive, even with a stiffer than stock pressure plate. Sometime in the cars > life a previous owner or shop had put on the wrong part. > > > > --Bob From rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com Thu May 1 08:31:30 2008 From: rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com (Robert Palmer) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 07:31:30 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] MC bore In-Reply-To: <4819B47D.4090007@hermitagewood.com> References: <002901c8aa2d$1c3477f0$2a50010a@in.dynetics.com> <002701c8ab4b$2e873950$8b95abf0$@com> <4819B47D.4090007@hermitagewood.com> Message-ID: <000301c8ab98$0c771a90$25654fb0$@com> That's a very plausible theory, although might it have broken with the standard bores anyway. -----Original Message----- From: Bob [mailto:bob at hermitagewood.com] Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:16 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Cc: rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Tigers] MC bore The bolt that broke was not the pressure plate to flywheel attaching bolts, but was instead a bolt on the pressure plate nearer the center. It retained the pivot for the 'fingers' that cause the plate to retract when the throwout bearing was extended. A master cylinder that is too large will extend the clutch fork and throwout bearing too far, which can stress those bolts until one breaks (which it did in my case). It was a nice high quality hayes pressure plate too, not a cheapie. The larger bore master (because it moves the slave further per unit of stroke on the master) then has a higher pressure required by your foot, hence my suggestion to verify both cylinders if the pressure is unduly high. --Bob '66 Tiger 382000782 From rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com Thu May 1 08:35:35 2008 From: rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com (Robert Palmer) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 07:35:35 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Central CA listers help? In-Reply-To: <20080501003748.DMFF4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C57DD867@weco1.wengco.com> <20080501003748.DMFF4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <000401c8ab98$9e8cb7a0$dba626e0$@com> Unfortunately, the principle behind a hybrid doesn't do much good in a boat scenario where you run at steady throttle most of the time. What you need is a turbo-diesel - much better thermal efficiency than lower compression gasoline engines. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Lau Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:37 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Central CA listers help? Bob, Is there any way you can put a Prius on board and hook the wheels up to the prop shaft. -- Bill -- At least it is only 11 gallons at a time, My boat holds 275 gallons and gets 0.75 MPG!!! Bob B382001318 From tiger at missiongranite.com Thu May 1 09:54:33 2008 From: tiger at missiongranite.com (Alan Zeni) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:54:33 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Replacement Message-ID: <011701c8aba3$a67789d0$43f9d648@mgserver> Whew, finally got the motor swapped out and the headers on. For anyone interested, I have edelbrock stamped steel valve covers on the motor without any external clearance issues. I did the aluminum foil test between the rockers and the baffles and it came out fine. I'll find out if I am right when I finally fire the beast. And, OMG, you need to be a contortionist to get the motor mounts between the header tubes and the frame/block. And the header bolts on the drivers side. Wow. All I have left is Water pump, gen, etc. Unfortunately, I am moving in a week. That will have to come first. Can't lose any of those rare parts in the move. From tiger at missiongranite.com Thu May 1 12:07:48 2008 From: tiger at missiongranite.com (Alan Zeni) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:07:48 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease Message-ID: <000f01c8abb6$4358a6a0$43f9d648@mgserver> Bad News. Just drove over to Moss and they are out of the red grease. Won't be getting any for a few months. They already have 65 backorders for it. Does anyone have any other leads for some? From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu May 1 12:13:25 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:13:25 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF5D@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> http://www.ar-sheldon.com/acatalog/Castrol_Classic_Greases.html Just found it through Google, never dealt with them so I have no clue as to how fast or whether you'd get it at all from them... but there it is. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Alan Zeni Sent: May 1, 2008 12:08 PM To: tiger Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease Bad News. Just drove over to Moss and they are out of the red grease. Won't be getting any for a few months. They already have 65 backorders for it. Does anyone have any other leads for some? You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu May 1 12:20:29 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:20:29 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF5E@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> There's this one as well... http://www.allraceoil.com/pbrrubbergrease.html And this one: http://www.rdent.com/pages/parts.html Looks like the latter charges $39 for the 500 gram tub, where the UK supplier charges 5 pounds. Seems like Owain could make a killing by buying this stuff locally and shipping it to North America. Theo From CoolVT at aol.com Thu May 1 12:36:37 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:36:37 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease Message-ID: I have always been curious about the scarcity and high price of this red grease. I remember using it in the early 60's on an Austin Sprite. So, if it was being manufactured that long ago it would seem that it's not some kind of exotic, modern formula. I wonder why no one has duplicated it for a reasonable price? There has to be a demand when you look at the number of older British cars in the US. I have to hand it to the manufacturers and distributors. They have kept it scarce, mysterious, in small quantity tubes and kept the price right up there. I going to be pretty pi$$ed off some day when we find that all along it was just Vaseline with some red dye mixed in:-) Mark **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) From tiger at missiongranite.com Thu May 1 12:39:48 2008 From: tiger at missiongranite.com (Alan Zeni) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:39:48 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease References: Message-ID: <001901c8abba$bc3d4d60$43f9d648@mgserver> Moss was selling theirs (probably a small tube) for $3.95. No wonder there was a run on it. ----- Original Message ----- From: CoolVT at aol.com To: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com ; tiger at missiongranite.com ; tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Red Grease I have always been curious about the scarcity and high price of this red grease. I remember using it in the early 60's on an Austin Sprite. So, if it was being manufactured that long ago it would seem that it's not some kind of exotic, modern formula. I wonder why no one has duplicated it for a reasonable price? There has to be a demand when you look at the number of older British cars in the US. I have to hand it to the manufacturers and distributors. They have kept it scarce, mysterious, in small quantity tubes and kept the price right up there. I going to be pretty pi$$ed off some day when we find that all along it was just Vaseline with some red dye mixed in:-) Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu May 1 12:44:01 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:44:01 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF5F@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Well the few references that I've seen in my quick search seem to indicate it's a vegetable based grease (so, Vaseline would not be a suitable substitute). The thinking is that petroleum based rubbers will get eroded by the petroleum oils in most greases. Silicone grease (check bicycle shops and electronics outfits) would possibly be a reasonable substitute so long as it's pure silicone with no petroleum solvents. Theo ________________________________ From: CoolVT at aol.com [mailto:CoolVT at aol.com] Sent: May 1, 2008 12:37 PM To: Smit, Theo; tiger at missiongranite.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Red Grease I have always been curious about the scarcity and high price of this red grease. I remember using it in the early 60's on an Austin Sprite. So, if it was being manufactured that long ago it would seem that it's not some kind of exotic, modern formula. I wonder why no one has duplicated it for a reasonable price? There has to be a demand when you look at the number of older British cars in the US. I have to hand it to the manufacturers and distributors. They have kept it scarce, mysterious, in small quantity tubes and kept the price right up there. I going to be pretty pi$$ed off some day when we find that all along it was just Vaseline with some red dye mixed in:-) Mark ________________________________ Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos . From tiger at missiongranite.com Thu May 1 12:53:00 2008 From: tiger at missiongranite.com (Alan Zeni) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:53:00 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF5F@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <003201c8abbc$942da5c0$43f9d648@mgserver> There's a place back east that has a 25 gram tube for 5.95. I'll keep looking.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Smit, Theo To: CoolVT at aol.com ; tiger at missiongranite.com ; tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [Tigers] Red Grease Well the few references that I've seen in my quick search seem to indicate it's a vegetable based grease (so, Vaseline would not be a suitable substitute). The thinking is that petroleum based rubbers will get eroded by the petroleum oils in most greases. Silicone grease (check bicycle shops and electronics outfits) would possibly be a reasonable substitute so long as it's pure silicone with no petroleum solvents. Theo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: CoolVT at aol.com [mailto:CoolVT at aol.com] Sent: May 1, 2008 12:37 PM To: Smit, Theo; tiger at missiongranite.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Red Grease I have always been curious about the scarcity and high price of this red grease. I remember using it in the early 60's on an Austin Sprite. So, if it was being manufactured that long ago it would seem that it's not some kind of exotic, modern formula. I wonder why no one has duplicated it for a reasonable price? There has to be a demand when you look at the number of older British cars in the US. I have to hand it to the manufacturers and distributors. They have kept it scarce, mysterious, in small quantity tubes and kept the price right up there. I going to be pretty pi$$ed off some day when we find that all along it was just Vaseline with some red dye mixed in:-) Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu May 1 12:55:28 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:55:28 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] J P Morgan's dingy Message-ID: <000f01c8abbc$eccb31c0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> "At least it is only 11 gallons at a time, My boat holds 275 gallons and gets 0.75 MPG!!!" "boat" with a 275 gallon tank......? I think what you have should be called a yacht!. I live in a great lake state with lots of marinas and they charge considerably more for a gallon of gas than the local gas station. Using $4.50 a gallon and 275 gallon tank gives a cost of $1235.50 to fill your "boat" up. As J.P. Morgan once said, "If you have to ask what it cost. Then you can't afford it". Jeff From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net Thu May 1 12:56:26 2008 From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 11:56:26 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF5F@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <001501c8abbd$0ef90ab0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Theo, A lot of professional race teams assemble their calipers with silicone grease. Dow Corning 111 is frequently used. I've had good luck with it and it's widely available. Buck Trippel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smit, Theo" To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Red Grease > Well the few references that I've seen in my quick search seem to > indicate it's a vegetable based grease (so, Vaseline would not be a > suitable substitute). The thinking is that petroleum based rubbers will > get eroded by the petroleum oils in most greases. Silicone grease (check > bicycle shops and electronics outfits) would possibly be a reasonable > substitute so long as it's pure silicone with no petroleum solvents. > > > > Theo From fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Thu May 1 13:23:22 2008 From: fordlandia at sbcglobal.net (Bill Waite) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF5E@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <468862.88016.qm@web82705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is this the stuff everybody is looking for? http://www.performanceonline.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=18011&cat=654&page=1 "Smit, Theo" wrote: There's this one as well... http://www.allraceoil.com/pbrrubbergrease.html And this one: http://www.rdent.com/pages/parts.html Looks like the latter charges $39 for the 500 gram tub, where the UK supplier charges 5 pounds. Seems like Owain could make a killing by buying this stuff locally and shipping it to North America. Theo You are subscribed as fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From tiger at missiongranite.com Thu May 1 14:07:18 2008 From: tiger at missiongranite.com (Alan Zeni) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:07:18 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease References: <468862.88016.qm@web82705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005c01c8abc6$f4fb18b0$43f9d648@mgserver> Just talked to an expert. The red grease in under the clutch slave boot is to just catch dirt. Was told that anything 100% synthetic should work fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Waite To: Smit, Theo ; Alan Zeni ; tiger Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Red Grease Is this the stuff everybody is looking for? http://www.performanceonline.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=18011 &cat=654&page=1 "Smit, Theo" wrote: There's this one as well... http://www.allraceoil.com/pbrrubbergrease.html And this one: http://www.rdent.com/pages/parts.html Looks like the latter charges $39 for the 500 gram tub, where the UK supplier charges 5 pounds. Seems like Owain could make a killing by buying this stuff locally and shipping it to North America. Theo _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Thu May 1 14:13:37 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:13:37 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Red Grease Message-ID: Seems like Owain could make a killing by buying this stuff locally and shipping it to North America. Someone already is:-) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From bob at hermitagewood.com Thu May 1 18:16:51 2008 From: bob at hermitagewood.com (Bob) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 19:16:51 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] MC bore In-Reply-To: <000301c8ab98$0c771a90$25654fb0$@com> References: <002901c8aa2d$1c3477f0$2a50010a@in.dynetics.com> <002701c8ab4b$2e873950$8b95abf0$@com> <4819B47D.4090007@hermitagewood.com> <000301c8ab98$0c771a90$25654fb0$@com> Message-ID: <481A5D73.9070008@hermitagewood.com> Geez, this is a tough crowd. No wonder I usually only read the list rather than contribute. Yes, I suppose it is a theory, but I had other indications of the problem at disassembly, plus there where signs while it was still working that because obvious in retrospect (after disassembly). For example, the pedal was too hard, the clutch released in a short amount of pedal travel, and pushing the clutch to the floor would in effect partially re-engage the clutch, at least partially (something was touching the clutch disk with the pedal at full travel). I suppose too that it is possible that a good quality heavy duty hayes pressure plate would break a fulcrum bolt when operating within its normal range, but it would be the one and only failure of this type of which I have every heard. --Bob '66 Tiger 382000782 Robert Palmer wrote: > That's a very plausible theory, although might it have broken with the > standard bores anyway. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob [mailto:bob at hermitagewood.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:16 AM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Cc: rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com > Subject: Re: [Tigers] MC bore > > > The bolt that broke was not the pressure plate to flywheel attaching > bolts, but was instead a bolt on the pressure plate nearer the center. > It retained the pivot for the 'fingers' that cause the plate to retract > when the throwout bearing was extended. A master cylinder that is too > large will extend the clutch fork and throwout bearing too far, which > can stress those bolts until one breaks (which it did in my case). It > was a nice high quality hayes pressure plate too, not a cheapie. The > larger bore master (because it moves the slave further per unit of > stroke on the master) then has a higher pressure required by your foot, > hence my suggestion to verify both cylinders if the pressure is unduly high. > > --Bob > '66 Tiger 382000782 From modtiger at comcast.net Thu May 1 22:24:02 2008 From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 21:24:02 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] The tough Crowd In-Reply-To: <481A5D73.9070008@hermitagewood.com> References: <002901c8aa2d$1c3477f0$2a50010a@in.dynetics.com> <002701c8ab4b$2e873950$8b95abf0$@com> <4819B47D.4090007@hermitagewood.com> <000301c8ab98$0c771a90$25654fb0$@com> <481A5D73.9070008@hermitagewood.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080501210640.04449b70@comcast.net> At 05:16 PM 5/1/2008, you wrote: >Geez, this is a tough crowd. No wonder I usually only read the list >rather than contribute. Yes, and that is to the greater loss of the group as a whole. I also choose to write to individuals rather than incur the risk of inciting the flamers on this network by copying most of my messages to the group. This is by nature a very very egotistical crowd and it reflects the strong personality traits that draw us to this rare and special vehicle. Thanks again Ian. Tom Hall ModTiger Engineering LLC www.tigerengineering.net From shutchin at netjets.com Fri May 2 04:54:17 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 06:54:17 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] The tough Crowd Message-ID: I resent that statement. How dare you say I am egotistical. I will have you know that I think about people other than myself at least once a day........ Well maybe once a week or so. If you include close family..... ;) Honestly this list is the most fun thing about having the car. You guy/girls are the greatest... Have a great day. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From CoolVT at aol.com Fri May 2 06:20:52 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:20:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: Can someone tell me what TRW engine mounts are. Is TRW a brand or a retailer? Thanks, Mark **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From Carmods at aol.com Fri May 2 06:38:29 2008 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:38:29 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Future Power Message-ID: <> What we need and what will be available in a year or two is a turbocharged, direct injection, high compression gasoline engine. One of you guys will figure out how to convert a small block Ford engine to that configuration for a Tiger. John Logan **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From Carmods at aol.com Fri May 2 06:48:09 2008 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:48:09 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Engine Replacement Message-ID: <> I assume you took the engine mount apart by removing the single bolt in the middle. That makes it much easier to remove and install. John Logan **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From FHSLOTH13 at aol.com Fri May 2 08:35:14 2008 From: FHSLOTH13 at aol.com (FHSLOTH13 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:35:14 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers, about TRW Message-ID: TRW is an automotive parts supplier trading on the NYSE under the symbol TRW. The following comes from the internet: TRW Automotive makes cars stop and go around the world, all the while keeping passengers safe. The company makes components for some 40 automakers, with three companies accounting for more than 40% of sales: Volkswagen (17%), Ford (15%), and General Motors (11%). Products include chassis systems (brake, steering, and suspension systems) and safety systems such as airbags, security electronics, and seat belts. Other products include body controls and engine valves. TRW Automotive has 200-plus facilities in more than two dozen countries worldwide. The Blackstone Group owns a 46%-stake in the company, which was formerly part of TRW Inc. Fred Baum 9470768 **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From atwittsend at verizon.net Fri May 2 11:07:39 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (atwittsend at verizon.net) Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 12:07:39 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tigers] The tough Crowd Message-ID: <3755921.2972561209748059962.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> This list isn't what it was when I came on back in 2000. Back then there seemed to be a lot more discussion (from a lot more people) about Tigers, but I guess that lead to arguing and... . Of recent years it seems if it wasn't for "side subjects" there wouldn't be much at all. I guess everyone has their personal reasons for leaving or lurking. There were a few occasions where my posts have been mis-understood. I almost laugh because those who have met me know I'm a relatively shy person. Anyway, it won't run me off or keep me from posting. I've been that guy who was working on his Tiger..., but is found sitting in wait at the computer - h o p i n g - anyone would answer my problem - SOON. So, with that in mind, to the extent I'm able, I do reply when others ask. For that matter I almost always reply to the whole list. I'm no expert and if I'm in error about advice I want to be corrected for the sake of the person who posed the question. I'm still looking forward to being here. Yesterday, today and tomorrow. And thanks to those that are still here in whatever capacity you are. From my perspective your input is greatly appreciated. Tom From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Fri May 2 11:44:53 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 12:44:53 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers, about TRW In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601c8ac7c$3a49dae0$74fcc04a@jerry> List, I don't know this first hand, but I have heard that the TRW engine mounts are the best because they have a hook and loop design (for a lack of a better term) that keep the vulcanized two metal parts together. This precludes the possibility of the motor mount splitting apart. I learned about these long after I finished my restoration, so I don't have them on my car. I don't know if these part numbers are still valid or not, but they are; TRW left 82220, right 82221. Any experience with these? Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of FHSLOTH13 at aol.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:35 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers, about TRW TRW is an automotive parts supplier trading on the NYSE under the symbol TRW. The following comes from the internet: TRW Automotive makes cars stop and go around the world, all the while keeping passengers safe. The company makes components for some 40 automakers, with three companies accounting for more than 40% of sales: Volkswagen (17%), Ford (15%), and General Motors (11%). Products include chassis systems (brake, steering, and suspension systems) and safety systems such as airbags, security electronics, and seat belts. Other products include body controls and engine valves. TRW Automotive has 200-plus facilities in more than two dozen countries worldwide. The Blackstone Group owns a 46%-stake in the company, which was formerly part of TRW Inc. Fred Baum 9470768 **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From arado7 at sbcglobal.net Fri May 2 12:13:26 2008 From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:13:26 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] The tough Crowd References: <3755921.2972561209748059962.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <003501c8ac80$37ff03b0$6401a8c0@GMI> The only acrimony I have met on this forum is difference of opinion in original and modified. Each side tends to defend it's turf..Still a very good source of info and personalities. Gary Moore B9472283 survivor... From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri May 2 12:13:19 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 11:13:19 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] (TRW) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <481B59BF.3070202@SoCal.rr.com> Mark, There are at least two of us on the list that worked for TRW. That stands for "Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge", later bought by Northrup-Grumman. TRW was dedicated to helping the Air Force design, develop, an field inter-continental ballistic defense systems. In fielding near 1,000 Minuteman ballistic missiles in silos, it deterred aggression from Soviet Union. Actually, it was the main driving force in collapsing the Soviet Union, as we forced them to try to spend money and resources to "defend" themselves against a perceived threat. They went bankrupt, ending the cold war, without a shot being fired. The origin of TRW was the sole result of Howard Hughes _not_ showing up for meetings with the USAF to take the role of Technical Manager for Ballistic missiles. The Generals, tired of traveling to a no-show, asked Hughes Aircraft representatives, Dr. Simon Ramo, and Dr. Dean Wooldridge, to start their own company and get this contract. They did, and it was originally named Guided Missile Research Division of Thompson Products (financier of the organization, and well known as a high quality OEM supplier of pistons, brakes, steering, etc. to the Auto Industry. Thompson later absorbed the "GMRD" unit and changed the name to "TRW". Bottom line, TRW (including Ramo-Wooldridge asset) was sold to Northrup-Grumman, and is still going on today, as my retirement check asserts. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > Can someone tell me what TRW engine mounts are. Is TRW a brand or a > retailer? > Thanks, Mark From awtiger at cox.net Fri May 2 12:15:47 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:15:47 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers, about TRW In-Reply-To: <000601c8ac7c$3a49dae0$74fcc04a@jerry> Message-ID: <20080502141547.S2KE5.29157.imail@eastrmwml23.mgt.cox.net> Jerry: I've heard the same about the TRW mounts, but I cannot confirm the info. Nonetheless, B382001600LRXFE has TRW mounts... Andy Walker Edmond, OK ---- Jerry wrote: > List, > > I don't know this first hand, but I have heard that the TRW engine mounts > are the best because they have a hook and loop design (for a lack of a > better term) that keep the vulcanized two metal parts together. This > precludes the possibility of the motor mount splitting apart. I learned > about these long after I finished my restoration, so I don't have them on my > car. > I don't know if these part numbers are still valid or not, but they are; TRW > left 82220, right 82221. > > Any experience with these? > > Jerry Christopherson > > 9473187 > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > FHSLOTH13 at aol.com > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:35 AM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers, about TRW > > TRW is an automotive parts supplier trading on the NYSE under the symbol > TRW. > > The following comes from the internet: > > > TRW Automotive makes cars stop and go around the world, all the while > keeping passengers safe. The company makes components for some 40 > automakers, with > three companies accounting for more than 40% of sales: Volkswagen (17%), > Ford > (15%), and General Motors (11%). Products include chassis systems (brake, > steering, and suspension systems) and safety systems such as airbags, > security > electronics, and seat belts. Other products include body controls and > engine > valves. TRW Automotive has 200-plus facilities in more than two dozen > countries worldwide. The Blackstone Group owns a 46%-stake in the company, > which was > formerly part of TRW Inc. > > Fred Baum > 9470768 > > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From Carmods at aol.com Sat May 3 08:05:30 2008 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 10:05:30 EDT Subject: [Tigers] TRW Mounts Message-ID: If you are replacing your engine mounts, I recommend you use only the TRW mounts. The Taiwan or Chinese or whatever do not have the holes in the right place and have about 2/3 the rubber. If you use them your engine may be located to the left or to the right or on an angle, depending probably on what dirt floor factory they were made in. When I shopped for the TRW mounts about four years ago, they were hard to find. Hopefully they are still making them. John Logan John Logan **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From CoolVT at aol.com Sat May 3 08:10:45 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 10:10:45 EDT Subject: [Tigers] TRW Mounts Message-ID: If you are replacing your engine mounts, I recommend you use only the TRW mounts. The Taiwan or Chinese or whatever do not have the holes in the right place and have about 2/3 the rubber. If you use them your engine may be located to the left or to the right or on an angle, depending probably on what dirt floor factory they were made in. When I shopped for the TRW mounts about four years ago, they were hard to find. Hopefully they are still making them. John Logan I agree. If you hear of where I might find some I would appreciate the info. Mark **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From CoolVT at aol.com Sat May 3 08:44:00 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 10:44:00 EDT Subject: [Tigers] engine mounts Message-ID: So listers, are TRW mounts available? Where? Where is another good source of mounts that fit and are of decent quality? I tried some from NAPA and another national chain.......metal about 1/3" thinner than original, holes off by at least 3/4" and the rubber on one mount about 1/2" thinner than the other. Both tried were import Asian products. Wow, I can see trying to cheapen them, but is anyone actually bolting these on to a Tiger or Mustang???? Mark **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From jteepen at usatoday.com Sat May 3 11:23:58 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 13:23:58 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] INFO NEEDED In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E971F68B9861@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Tigerman: I googled (new verb?) "miss information" and found it at the following address: www.business-magazines.com/product.php?prd=148029 Regarding Miss Information, my experiences led me to contact any organizations prior to the date of the event. I believe it is the responsibility of the organization placing the ad to remove or amend it when necessary. I have shown up at events to find no one present due to schedule changes. But that was a long time ago... Good luck, Jere -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cushcom1 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 6:41 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] INFO NEEDED DOES ANY SOCAL TIGER MAN OR WOMAN HAVE THE CONTACT FOR A MAGAZINE CALLED "MISSINFORMATION" THAT PROVIDES INFO ON CAR CLUBS AND UPCOMING EVENTS? THANKS FROM THE TIGERMAN, NOW ENSCONCED IN SAN DIEGO. From jim at island.net Sat May 3 12:48:40 2008 From: jim at island.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 11:48:40 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] engine mounts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0bcc01c8ad4e$4e2a2ba0$0300a8c0@JIMPC> I used mounts from Sunbeam Specialties with no problems... I have no idea where Rick gets them from, though. Something I highly recommend is putting 'safety' bolts in the mounts before you install them. I did this using pictures from Tim Ronak's 'Lunati 350' article on the TU site... I used 3/8" flat socket head bolts and left the nylocks a tad loose for movement. Only special tool needed is a large countersink bit... simple fix for a whole lot of peace of mind... http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/RonakCam/pt-RonakCam5.asp Jim 382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: May 3, 2008 7:44 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] engine mounts So listers, are TRW mounts available? Where? Where is another good source of mounts that fit and are of decent quality? I tried some from NAPA and another national chain.......metal about 1/3" thinner than original, holes off by at least 3/4" and the rubber on one mount about 1/2" thinner than the other. Both tried were import Asian products. Wow, I can see trying to cheapen them, but is anyone actually bolting these on to a Tiger or Mustang???? Mark **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) You are subscribed as jim at island.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Sun May 4 08:34:53 2008 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 07:34:53 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Tigers] New (to me, at least) online resource Message-ID: <17898802.1209911693928.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Dear Readers, Do The Monster Mash I just found out about a website that will be a real boon to car enthusiasts, while at my friend Brett, who is planing to put new Corvette running gear in his Merkur coupe, he asked me if I had seen: www.jaxed.com It was put together by a Corvair guy and it searches many of the online resources for cars and parts and gives you a list of what is availabe on all lists - Amazing!!! You also can narrow it down by state. Check it out! Get on the sight - and click on the big MASH bar up by the top ......... then your in - have fun Best, Rick Feibusch Venice Beach, Californis From w_pierzga at msn.com Sun May 4 12:39:23 2008 From: w_pierzga at msn.com (MSN) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 14:39:23 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Vacuum booster to engine hose Message-ID: Hi: I seem to recall that someone was reproducing the rubber hose with yellow stripe that connects the vacuum booster and engine. I would be grateful if someone would point me to this person. I am looking to purchase 6 feet of this hose. Thanks, Wayne From edstiger at charter.net Sun May 4 14:55:25 2008 From: edstiger at charter.net (Ed Esslinger) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 15:55:25 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Vacuum booster to engine hose References: Message-ID: <002401c8ae29$2d59c850$6401a8c0@SEXEYNICKERS> Hi Wayne I think It was Duke Samouse. You may find him on the sunbeamalpine.org forum Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "MSN" To: Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: [Tigers] Vacuum booster to engine hose > Hi: > > > > I seem to recall that someone was reproducing the rubber hose with yellow > stripe that connects the vacuum booster and engine. I would be grateful if > someone would point me to this person. I am looking to purchase 6 feet of > this hose. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Wayne > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as edstiger at charter.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From laurin212 at yahoo.com Sun May 4 15:07:37 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 17:07:37 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Junkyard vacation (part 2) References: Message-ID: <00f501c8ae2a$e17f87b0$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> mark - any pics you can share with the group? sounds AWESOME. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: [Tigers] Junkyard vacation (part 2) > After about 15 minutes of hiking and lugging the tool bag I was > exhausted...the roads felt like they would never end. But, if you like > old vehicles it's > almost like entering heaven. It feels like stepping back in time 40 > years. > The place is full of treasures. Absolutely no order to anything....all > brands > mixed together although the trucks seemed to be in bunches in different > places. > I'm still not sure I saw every road. The place really could use a map. I > got > so winded hiking up the mountain and then through the woods to look at > this > vehicle and that vehicle that I decided to set my tool bag down on the > edge > of the road. I figured I'd come back and get it if I needed tools. Big > mistake. It took me 20 minutes to find the tool bag later. I couldn't > find the right > road. Anyway, I was like a kid in a candy store for 4 hours. Sun out, > warm > weather and all alone on the mountain with the old vehicles. I got 2 > alternator brackets ($5 for the pair) and a few, small misc. things (no > charge). And, > this long winded account does have a point...... > There is a mail delivery Jeep, right hand drive. The rear end is > completely > intact. Guy said he'd remove the whole rear end and put it in my truck > for > $150. So, my questions are....were all of these mail Jeep positraction > usable > in a Tiger? If not, what should I look for to identify it? Is this a > decent > price? Also a guy who worked "on the mountain" said he thought it was 4 > wheel > drive. I didn't check that. If it is, would there possibly be a usable > posi > in the front too? > Thanks for bearing with me. For those of you who had to sit behind a desk > today, don't worry. Your retirement days will come:-) > Mark > > > > > > > > > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used > car > listings at AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as laurin212 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From DJoh797014 at aol.com Sun May 4 18:55:58 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 20:55:58 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Vacuum booster to engine hose Message-ID: Try looking for a source of the webbed heater hoses. In a message dated 5/4/2008 1:40:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, w_pierzga at msn.com writes: Hi: I seem to recall that someone was reproducing the rubber hose with yellow stripe that connects the vacuum booster and engine. I would be grateful if someone would point me to this person. I am looking to purchase 6 feet of this hose. Thanks, Wayne You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From Rollright at aol.com Mon May 5 06:46:52 2008 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 08:46:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] radiator cap Message-ID: Hello, I'm trying to replace my original style radiator cap (lost during engine rebuild) with one from Mustangs Unlimited and they have a number of types. Was the original vented or non-vented? I assume it wasn't chrome but was zinc plate..... And what was the pressure? Was it 7 or thirteen lbs. or something different? The two that look the part are Mustangs Unltd. part # 8101 01 and RS9 01 BUT...........I remember that the lost cap said AC on it. Perhaps replaced in the long lost past? Please help. BTW: will the gentleman I spoke with this weekend with the Mk 11 from British Columbia please resend me your contact information. I had a computer meltdown. Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Mon May 5 12:33:28 2008 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 12:33:28 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] radiator cap References: Message-ID: Just a note, I bought one of those 'chrome' caps for my mustang, and it had very poor build quality, and the thing leaked and boiled over all the time, I finally realized the rubber piece on the inside had too big of a center hole in it, and it was offset on the center post and because of that the rubber seal was offcenter and it sealed very poorly on one side of the cap and cause all my problems. So check any repo cap you get for build quality, and if you can find someone who still has the pressure checker that would be even better. I don't remember offhand what psi cap is currently on my tiger, but it is aftermarket as I remember it, so probably not a good source of what was on there originally. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 6:46 AM Subject: [Tigers] radiator cap > Hello, > > I'm trying to replace my original style radiator cap (lost during engine > rebuild) with one from Mustangs Unlimited and they have a number of > types. > > Was the original vented or non-vented? I assume it wasn't chrome but was > zinc plate..... > > And what was the pressure? Was it 7 or thirteen lbs. or something > different? > > > The two that look the part are Mustangs Unltd. part # 8101 01 and RS9 > 01 > > BUT...........I remember that the lost cap said AC on it. Perhaps replaced > in the long lost past? > > Please help. > > BTW: will the gentleman I spoke with this weekend with the Mk 11 from > British Columbia please resend me your contact information. I had a > computer > meltdown. > > Jim Armstrong > Mk 1A 382002083 > LRXFE > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on > family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tigerman67 at hotmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Mon May 5 13:01:04 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 12:01:04 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] radiator cap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <481F5970.30408@SoCal.rr.com> Jim (and Tigers), I am using a "Lever Action" 160 deg. stainless Stant. I needed the Lever Action to be able to reduce pressure before removing the cap. I learned this lesson the hard way when I was headed to the airport in my 1966 Mustang GT, for a trip to Europe. I removed the cap to assure there was sufficient coolant, and got scalded just before the flight. No fun! I also added 2 half gallon overflow catchers. One on the inside left fender just ahead of the steel tank, and one in parallel against the left wheel well opposite the other one. They are small enough to not interfere with anything, and avoid leaving green rusty water on someone's driveway. With the radiator changes, overheating, and messing up driveways, went away. See page *2 *of "Cool It, Buddy!" (the whole article is worth reading): http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Rollright at aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to replace my original style radiator cap (lost during engine > rebuild) with one from Mustangs Unlimited and they have a number of types. > > Was the original vented or non-vented? I assume it wasn't chrome but was > zinc plate..... > > And what was the pressure? Was it 7 or thirteen lbs. or something different? > > > The two that look the part are Mustangs Unltd. part # 8101 01 and RS9 01 > > BUT...........I remember that the lost cap said AC on it. Perhaps replaced > in the long lost past? > > Please help. > > BTW: will the gentleman I spoke with this weekend with the Mk 11 from > British Columbia please resend me your contact information. I had a computer > meltdown. > > Jim Armstrong > Mk 1A 382002083 > LRXFE From todbrown at roadrunner.com Mon May 5 15:17:18 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 17:17:18 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Radiator Cap Message-ID: <481F795E.9090609@roadrunner.com> Jim: My Rootes parts book lists two numbers for the radiator cap in a MkI, 5220487 (9 lbs) and 1224725 (13 lbs). I have the original cap from my Tiger (B382002384LRXFE) which looks pretty much like the #8100 cap from Mustangs Unlimited, but the markings are different. It has the characters ARH 1687 near one "ear" and the numeral "9" by the other "ear". The only other markings are the word "TIGHTEN" with an arrow indicating clockwise rotation and the words "REMOVE SLOWLY" on the opposite side. Based on that, I would say you are looking for a 9 lb/in^2 cap if you want absolute authenticity. However, it seems 13 lb/in^2 is an allowable option, and that is what I have always used, just to the raise the boiling pt. a little. Tod From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Tue May 6 10:53:12 2008 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:53:12 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Stupid Tiger - Ford question In-Reply-To: <481F795E.9090609@roadrunner.com> References: <481F795E.9090609@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB0C@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Howdy all: Let me first profusely apologize for some stupid questions, but I freely admit that I come to the Tiger world as an English car guy, while I know others come to it because they're Ford or Shelby guys. So, all the American bits (including the 260 itself and all of the stuff that hangs off of it) are totally, dare I say it, foreign to me! I recently purchased a replacement solenoid, but if I also wanted to pick up a new coil, distributor cap, points, plugs, etc., would someone steer me in the right direction please? I presume that a Mustang or Falcon supply house. Does anyone have a place they particularly like? Sort of the Moss Motors equivalent? Thanks as always! NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue May 6 11:05:33 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 11:05:33 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Stupid Tiger - Ford question Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF76@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> It depends on what you want to do with your Tiger. If you are OK with using current replacement or performance parts, then your local speed shop should be able to provide everything you need. Ask for parts that fit the Fairlane, although in most cases Mustang and Falcon gear should fit as well (noting that the 289 hipo fitted to some Mustangs and Falcons would likely have had different plugs, as well as being equipped with the dual-point performance distributor). The big interchangeability break with Ford smallblocks occurred in 1979 when they introduced the 5.0. Otherwise most components designed for the 221/260/289/302 will at least bolt on. The 255 V8 offered in the early 80's is NOT in that group. If you're concerned about maintaining period correct appearance then you should look at the vintage Mustang/Fairlane/Falcon supply places. Again, the Fairlane stuff is apparently closest to what was fitted to the 260 Tigers, but coils, cap/rotor and plugs should be interchangeable among any of those applications, assuming the 260 in OEM state of tune. Cheers, Theo From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue May 6 11:48:01 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 10:48:01 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Stupid Tiger - Ford question In-Reply-To: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB0C@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> References: <481F795E.9090609@roadrunner.com> <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB0C@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Message-ID: <482099D1.7030600@SoCal.rr.com> Bill, The Tiger Parts List, Section WF Electrical Equipment: Calls out a Rootes Number 6100035 and Ford Number C4AT-11450-A-B You can read the entire Parts List on TigersUnited.com: http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/FactParts.asp Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Steinman, Bill wrote: > Howdy all: > > Let me first profusely apologize for some stupid questions, but I freely > admit that I come to the Tiger world as an English car guy, while I know > others come to it because they're Ford or Shelby guys. So, all the > American bits (including the 260 itself and all of the stuff that hangs > off of it) are totally, dare I say it, foreign to me! I recently > purchased a replacement solenoid, but if I also wanted to pick up a new > coil, distributor cap, points, plugs, etc., would someone steer me in > the right direction please? I presume that a Mustang or Falcon supply > house. Does anyone have a place they particularly like? Sort of the > Moss Motors equivalent? Thanks as always! From achd73 at yahoo.com Tue May 6 16:07:39 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 15:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Stupid Tiger - Ford question In-Reply-To: <482099D1.7030600@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <431859.3603.qm@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve- Hope you continute to feel better thn you where a few momths back. ALSO, Im always glad to see your responses with the TU site answer to questions. Although Ive read for hours you always locate a page or list etc Ive missed. I appreciate your responses even when Im well aware of the correct answer. Stay in good health, your friend in the midwest. TonytheTiger PSS- ditto that to Theo, who always provides excellent responses. --- On Tue, 5/6/08, Steve Laifman wrote: > From: Steve Laifman > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Stupid Tiger - Ford question > To: "Steinman, Bill" > Cc: tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Tuesday, May 6, 2008, 12:48 PM > Bill, > > The Tiger Parts List, Section WF Electrical Equipment: > > Calls out a Rootes Number 6100035 and Ford Number > C4AT-11450-A-B > > You can read the entire Parts List on TigersUnited.com: > > http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/FactParts.asp > > Steve > ___ > > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > > > > Steinman, Bill wrote: > > Howdy all: > > > > Let me first profusely apologize for some stupid > questions, but I freely > > admit that I come to the Tiger world as an English car > guy, while I know > > others come to it because they're Ford or Shelby > guys. So, all the > > American bits (including the 260 itself and all of the > stuff that hangs > > off of it) are totally, dare I say it, foreign to me! > I recently > > purchased a replacement solenoid, but if I also wanted > to pick up a new > > coil, distributor cap, points, plugs, etc., would > someone steer me in > > the right direction please? I presume that a Mustang > or Falcon supply > > house. Does anyone have a place they particularly > like? Sort of the > > Moss Motors equivalent? Thanks as always! > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Wed May 7 17:02:04 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:02:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! Message-ID: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 original miles. Looking at the photo's of before restoration, which includes a close up of the odometer registering 25,000 miles, it sure was a hard 25,000 miles. I think the odometer rolled over once. Then the seller goes on to say the engine and transmission have only 25,000 miles worth of wear. Maybe so, but the engine is pretty gunked up for a low mileage engine. The after restoration photo shows they messed up the front bumper, its looks like it is bent upward, or they hit something driving it. Jeff From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Wed May 7 17:12:55 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:12:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Factory Chalk Marks Message-ID: <001301c8b097$e2515370$6601a8c0@your03667082de> I just noticed on the Ebay Item number: 140231201604 auction there is a link to restoration photos. : http://www.1restoration.com/Projects/COMPLETED/Slideshows/67Tiger/index.htm If you scroll down to the front cross member photo you can see what appears to be "Rootes Factory" grease pencil markings of "Okay" and some other characters. Jeff From michael.s.king at gmail.com Wed May 7 17:13:59 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:13:59 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! In-Reply-To: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> References: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: The soft top boot cover is very weird.. its coming up vertically all the way then leveling off. Wonder what happened there. Also a few of the gauges are SV alpine, and what happened to the original dash? On 08/05/2008, Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > > Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 original > miles. Looking at the photo's of before restoration, which includes a > close > up of the odometer registering 25,000 miles, it sure was a hard 25,000 > miles. > I think the odometer rolled over once. Then the seller goes on to say > the > engine and transmission have only 25,000 miles worth of wear. Maybe so, > but > the engine is pretty gunked up for a low mileage engine. > > The after restoration photo shows they messed up the front bumper, its > looks > like it is bent upward, or they hit something driving it. > > > > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as michael.s.king at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > -- Regards Michael King From WHIZZZBANG13 at aol.com Wed May 7 17:44:21 2008 From: WHIZZZBANG13 at aol.com (WHIZZZBANG13 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:44:21 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles ....... Message-ID: Unless it's a typo, the VIN reads B383002016. I never saw a 383 car before. Fred Baum 9470768 **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From shutchin at netjets.com Wed May 7 17:50:32 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:50:32 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles ....... Message-ID: Those are the ones with the chrysler engines. Very rare.... Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From WHIZZZBANG13 at aol.com Wed May 7 18:11:56 2008 From: WHIZZZBANG13 at aol.com (WHIZZZBANG13 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 20:11:56 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles ....... Message-ID: Just looked at the other photos on the other website and see the VIN is actually 382******* The console top is kind of funky as well. Valve covers? One shot of the front bumper doesn't look as bad as the others. Maybe the car was hit and the repair was not up to snuff, leading to the misalignment of the bumper. In another shot the steering wheel looks like a happy face, being about 180 degrees from normal, but the front wheels are hardly turned at all. For that kind of moolah I want an aligned steering wheel. How about a TAC number? Fred Baum **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Wed May 7 18:36:52 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 20:36:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! Part Two Message-ID: <002a01c8b0a3$9c7b8e40$6601a8c0@your03667082de> I sent a message to the seller questioning the "25,000" original miles. The seller said there is documentation proving the mileage is as stated. Also, the engine was not rebuilt because it had good compression and the bearings looked okay. I guess this is a case of driven hard and put away wet. Jeff From fastsage at cox.net Wed May 7 19:01:36 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 18:01:36 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! In-Reply-To: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> References: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <482250F0.7070403@cox.net> Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 original > miles......... I'll take the first $105,000 offer for my Tiger. It hasn't had a ground up restoration, but I do have fully functioning, icy cold air conditioning in it. That has to be worth an extra $50,000 or so. Plus, its been TAC'd, and I also just installed a new soft top boot, but mine fits better! Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09780 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Wed May 7 19:20:46 2008 From: fordlandia at sbcglobal.net (Bill Waite) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 18:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! In-Reply-To: <482250F0.7070403@cox.net> Message-ID: <626198.35822.qm@web82707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Heck, Jeffrey. That sounds like a bargain to me. But, just so people have a choice, I'll sell my Mark II to the first person who sends me $285,000. I think it is a deal (for someone... you think maybe me?). Well, just to be competitive, I'll give a discount to the first person who wires me the money. They will get a $25,000 rebate. This is all pretty crazy... don't you think? When will the bubble burst? Steve Sage wrote: Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 original > miles......... I'll take the first $105,000 offer for my Tiger. It hasn't had a ground up restoration, but I do have fully functioning, icy cold air conditioning in it. That has to be worth an extra $50,000 or so. Plus, its been TAC'd, and I also just installed a new soft top boot, but mine fits better! Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09780 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ You are subscribed as fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From mrlau at charter.net Wed May 7 20:12:03 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:12:03 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! Message-ID: <20080508021235.IHKO3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Sorry but I don't think it could get that filthy in the engine compartment in 25 K miles. My MkII has about 85 K and the first 70 K or so was in New Jersey and it doesn't have anywhere close to the amount of dirt in the engine compartment or rust that this car had. If this car has 25000 then my car seems to have about 150 miles on it and no I don't keep it clean. I used it to autocross in and didn't worry about asthetics. -- Bill -- Heck, Jeffrey. That sounds like a bargain to me. But, just so people have a choice, I'll sell my Mark II to the first person who sends me $285,000. I think it is a deal (for someone... you think maybe me?). Well, just to be competitive, I'll give a discount to the first person who wires me the money. They will get a $25,000 rebate. This is all pretty crazy... don't you think? When will the bubble burst? Steve Sage wrote: Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 original > miles......... I'll take the first $105,000 offer for my Tiger. It hasn't had a ground up restoration, but I do have fully functioning, icy cold air conditioning in it. That has to be worth an extra $50,000 or so. Plus, its been TAC'd, and I also just installed a new soft top boot, but mine fits better! Steve Sage From michael.s.king at gmail.com Wed May 7 20:30:50 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:30:50 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! In-Reply-To: <20080508021235.IHKO3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> References: <20080508021235.IHKO3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: The thing i thought that was weird as i stated originally is the soft top cover.. not sure what they have done to it, but they have a big gap in the resto photos from finished body to fully finished car. Also they must have lost some gauges as they have SV temp/fuel gauges and in the pre resto photos they were stock. Also is weird that the car rusted higher up in the sills and panels and not at the bases.. Either way.. if it is TAC'd it would be a nice car that with some tidy-up here and there could be really nice. Just not sure for 50K+ i'd wan tto be spending much more fixing things. -- Regards Michael King From achd73 at yahoo.com Thu May 8 02:53:15 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 01:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <743233.83246.qm@web30308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You could never convince me that car had only 25k miles. Maybe 125k. I'm certain the car will tac and if it bring 50k ( I haven't seen the auction) then I suppose it brings the value of our Tigers up. I know it had a 2 barell and I saw nothing to determine it was a 260 block BUT to my eye the cylinder appears to be 4", which is a stock 289. I dint remember the bore of a stock 260, so do any of our more puter smart members have a method of measuring the bore by using the pic. It also didn't appear they ever started the car and without doing so I would think it hard to determine the engine didn't need rebuilt, even tho I'm thinking in my head its a 289. They also had the bolts off the inspection plate of the tranny but didn't take any pics of the gears- I would have- wouldn't that be normal to show it looked good, even tho that wouldn't actually make it good BUT the trannys are pretty tough to be honest. Most of the body work appeared well done but there was so many places they didn't show the repair, so i wondered if bondo just covered up the small holes as opposed to metal welded in where the pics showed. Happy Mothers day to all the Mothers on our LIST and the other kind of mutther doesn't count. regards, TonytheTiger ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From prmnes at verizon.net Thu May 8 06:59:58 2008 From: prmnes at verizon.net (Paul Memont) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 08:59:58 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! In-Reply-To: <482250F0.7070403@cox.net> References: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> <482250F0.7070403@cox.net> Message-ID: <4822F94E.2050005@verizon.net> My guess is, no top under the boot. Paul Steve Sage wrote: > Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > >> Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 original >> miles......... >> > I'll take the first $105,000 offer for my Tiger. It hasn't had a ground > up restoration, but I do have fully functioning, icy cold air > conditioning in it. That has to be worth an extra $50,000 or so. Plus, > its been TAC'd, and I also just installed a new soft top boot, but mine > fits better! > > Steve Sage > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) > Database version: 5.09780 > http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as prmnes at verizon.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Thu May 8 07:11:51 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:11:51 EDT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: My guess is, no top under the boot. Paul I think they said somewhere that the soft top was missing. That's the strange thing about the car. They "seem" to have put a lot of effort into it and want top dollar, but then leave things undone...to soft top, bent bumper, brake booster "rebuilt' but not installed, crappy dash, etc. It's amazing that for a car that appeared so neglected that it still had almost all the original, often missing parts...air cleaner, fan shroud, booster, oil filter, etc. I guess if you seldom open the hood, things just don't disappear. The body work does seem really nice. It's pretty hard to get a black car to look so straight. But as Tony says, who knows what went into the body work repair. M **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From gswaybright at yahoo.com Thu May 8 07:31:41 2008 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 06:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <830484.36397.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree. You don't get top dollar if anything jumps out as being a shortcoming. Who wants to spend top dollar, and still have work to do to finish the project or put things right? Nonetheless... I'm always glad to see a Tiger resurected from near death, and this one looks like it could be very nice with just a little more effort. Stephen --- On Thu, 5/8/08, CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > From: CoolVT at aol.com > Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Thursday, May 8, 2008, 9:11 AM > My guess is, no top under the boot. > > Paul > > I think they said somewhere that the soft top was missing. > That's the > strange thing about the car. They "seem" to have > put a lot of effort into it and > want top dollar, but then leave things undone...to soft > top, bent bumper, > brake booster "rebuilt' but not installed, crappy > dash, etc. > It's amazing that for a car that appeared so neglected > that it still had > almost all the original, often missing parts...air > cleaner, fan shroud, booster, > oil filter, etc. I guess if you seldom open the hood, > things just don't > disappear. > The body work does seem really nice. It's pretty hard > to get a black car to > look so straight. But as Tony says, who knows what went > into the body work > repair. > M From twojohnsons at cox.net Thu May 8 07:33:33 2008 From: twojohnsons at cox.net (Alvin Johnson) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:33:33 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) References: Message-ID: <005901c8b110$1c8795e0$0f3cc048@13930193605348f> A topless Tiger? That's good news---Maybe the buyer will want my 2 sets of Tiger topbows that I've had lying around for years, & save them from the landfill. Al J > My guess is, no top under the boot. > > Paul > > I think they said somewhere that the soft top was missing. From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Thu May 8 09:21:36 2008 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:21:36 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! References: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de><482250F0.7070403@cox.net> <4822F94E.2050005@verizon.net> Message-ID: I think I saw a note, either on the auction or on their web site that said, "Originally a soft top, but no top is installed" So for $55k you don't even get either type of top. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Memont" Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! > My guess is, no top under the boot. > > Paul > > > Steve Sage wrote: >> Jeffrey Nichols wrote: >> >>> Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 >>> original >>> miles......... >>> >> I'll take the first $105,000 offer for my Tiger. It hasn't had a ground >> up restoration, but I do have fully functioning, icy cold air >> conditioning in it. That has to be worth an extra $50,000 or so. Plus, >> its been TAC'd, and I also just installed a new soft top boot, but mine >> fits better! >> >> Steve Sage >> >> >> >> >> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) >> Database version: 5.09780 >> http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as prmnes at verizon.net >> >> Tigers at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers >> >> http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tigerman67 at hotmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From atwittsend at verizon.net Thu May 8 09:58:12 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 08:58:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles ....... References: Message-ID: <006e01c8b124$524fce40$0202a8c0@student2> While there are some oddities to this Tiger I think we need to be thankful someone took the time/money to keep it on the road. Is it worth the asking price? Probably to the guy who is selling it. They do seem to be somewhat naive about the value of original, compared to aftermarket parts used. When you look at the basic elements of the car it seems they did a decent job. The top, bumper etc. can all be fixed (though, yes, one would expect them to already be for $55,000). Regarding the mileage, I think given the effort made on the body would leave me to doubt they would have just put a 125,000 mile engine back in. While it is trusting the owner/selling companies word, they seem to have fairly substantiated themselves in the Q&A on Ebay. In the end, regardless of what is/isn't stated "Buyer Beware." Finally, remember that lacking after market wheels you are getting five of those "rare" Sunbeam steel wheels with a market value of $249.00 EACH! :-) Tom From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com Thu May 8 10:30:25 2008 From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:30:25 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000 Orig Miles .... Or Not! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Some other comments: I'm not a Tiger expert on these things. But, that wood dash sure doesn't look like an original piece to me. Replaced within 25,000 miles? Also, the unrestored pictures show carpet on the floors. Again, showing my ignorance, I thought all cars came originally with the rubber floor mats. Or did Tigers and GT Alpines come with carpet? On the unrestored dash top, there seems to be a stitched seam running across the top. That certainly is not factory. On the dash, the switch all the way to the left has one of those label tags. Didn't the wood dashes have the letters on the surface of the wood itself? Also seems that there are no rubber pads on the brake and clutch pedals. Gone in 25,000 miles? On the bent bumper, I had the exact same thing on my Alpine. It happened from being towed by a sling on the front. The sling wraps under the bumper and bends it just like that. Easily fixed though. ====================================================================== Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession. ====================================================================== From fastsage at cox.net Thu May 8 10:52:12 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 09:52:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Dash Pad Message-ID: <48232FBC.5000401@cox.net> Hello Sunbeamers: Just in time for getting the car Tiger ready to drive to Tigers United in a couple of months, my dash/crash pad has developed some cracks. Is there any practical way of replacing it without removing the windshield? Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09790 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From todbrown at roadrunner.com Thu May 8 10:56:18 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:56:18 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A, Restored, 25, 000, Orig Miles .... Or Not! Message-ID: <482330B2.6070306@roadrunner.com> I would have to agree that 25,000 miles is hard to believe. It also looks like the speedo has some issues, so who knows how long it has not been working. As for the bumper, it looks to me that the bumper bracket on the left side was mounted upside down, which will cause the bumper to assume the position shown. Doesn't really give you too much confidence in the rest of their workmanship! All that having been said, it does look correct, as it matches pretty well with my car which is pretty close in serial number (e.g. square bonnet, square doors, square trunk). And no wonder the steering wheel looks like a smiley face - it's a MONA Lita! Tod B382002384LRXFE From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu May 8 13:27:30 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:27:30 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A In-Reply-To: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> References: <000c01c8b096$5e057ca0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <48235422.9070206@SoCal.rr.com> Tigers, Just for curiosity, my Buddy Bar original Tiger lettered aluminum valve covers have nearly half the fins on each side ground off to clear the firewall. This car does not, and seems to have deeper fins. Curious. Yes the front bumper has been twisted up on one side. As to the "soft top boot cover", I believe that some photos show the boot cover, and those showing a cover that seems to slope to the rear of the front seats, are different covers. The "sloping" one is a Tonneau cover that has the cockpit cover portion stowed behind the seats. Perfectly normal with such a cover. The wrong color (blue) engine appears to be a 289, as the 260 had outside head surface curved, and these appear straight in the picture. Pictures of both in "Performance Tuning the Sunbeam Tiger" by Gordon Chittenden. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 original > miles. Looking at the photo's of before restoration, which includes a close > up of the odometer registering 25,000 miles, it sure was a hard 25,000 miles. > I think the odometer rolled over once. Then the seller goes on to say the > engine and transmission have only 25,000 miles worth of wear. Maybe so, but > the engine is pretty gunked up for a low mileage engine. > > The after restoration photo shows they messed up the front bumper, its looks > like it is bent upward, or they hit something driving it. > > > > > Jeff From jteepen at usatoday.com Thu May 8 13:49:40 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:49:40 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A In-Reply-To: <48235422.9070206@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E971F7438B11@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> After reviewing the pictures of the restoration, it appears the proper procedures were followed for the work carried out. The bad metal was cut away and new metal installed, the sills seem to have had the correct strength built back into them, efforts were made to find replacement floors of the correct profile, etc. I also noticed a Jaguar E-Type and a Triumph TR4 in the background of the pictures, so they must have some knowledge of British automobiles. In one of the pictures is the possible name of the restoration company, "Nationwide Auto Restoration, Inc.". A few folks have mentioned the dash is not original, I would imagine that it is much more economical to replace than repair as age is the enemy of wood dashboards. Finally, the valve covers. I have a similar set (Cal Custom?) on my car. They do fit without modification, but mine have been shaved significantly on the rears under the cowl to make it possible to remove them without unbolting everything and lowering the motor. In the resto pictures they installed the motor with the valve covers in place, an unwelcome surprise for someone down the road! Jere -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Laifman Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:28 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Ebay 1967 Sunbeam Tiger MK1A Tigers, Just for curiosity, my Buddy Bar original Tiger lettered aluminum valve covers have nearly half the fins on each side ground off to clear the firewall. This car does not, and seems to have deeper fins. Curious. Yes the front bumper has been twisted up on one side. As to the "soft top boot cover", I believe that some photos show the boot cover, and those showing a cover that seems to slope to the rear of the front seats, are different covers. The "sloping" one is a Tonneau cover that has the cockpit cover portion stowed behind the seats. Perfectly normal with such a cover. The wrong color (blue) engine appears to be a 289, as the 260 had outside head surface curved, and these appear straight in the picture. Pictures of both in "Performance Tuning the Sunbeam Tiger" by Gordon Chittenden. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > Check out auction Item number: 140231201604 advertised as 25,000 > original miles. Looking at the photo's of before restoration, which > includes a close up of the odometer registering 25,000 miles, it sure was a hard 25,000 miles. > I think the odometer rolled over once. Then the seller goes on to say the > engine and transmission have only 25,000 miles worth of wear. Maybe so, but > the engine is pretty gunked up for a low mileage engine. > > The after restoration photo shows they messed up the front bumper, its > looks like it is bent upward, or they hit something driving it. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu May 8 16:15:22 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 23:15:22 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] fan belts! Message-ID: <39a841b0805081515g1b1889afhfd44abd568eb6c44@mail.gmail.com> i had been planning to put a spare fan belt in the trunk for a while now but never got round to it. tonight, on my way to the airport to collect my wife, the flaming thing snaps and i don't have a spare (or the snapped one, either). can anyone please let me know the size of the tiger fan belt and if possible a common (european) car that has a similar size. i need to find one locally tomorrow morning as i'm booked on a rolling road tomorrow afternoon. many thanks, indeed. - owain. From PhastPhill at aol.com Thu May 8 17:32:52 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 19:32:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] fan belts! Message-ID: My MKII uses a NAPA 7475. Or try the Tigers United website, I'm sure the info is there....cheers From michael.s.king at gmail.com Thu May 8 19:39:14 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:39:14 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] 2006 LM Classic Lister Tiger Message-ID: you can see the LM tiger on the grid.. then just before the end clip it drives past: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTabmZGa-O4&feature=related -- Regards Michael King From jteepen at usatoday.com Thu May 8 21:23:56 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 23:23:56 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] fan belts! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97207889C0C@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Someone please correct me if I am wrong (likely), but I believe in the NAPA p/n 7475, the last three digits indicate 47.5 inches. Now that I have looked in the shop manual, it says the 260 uses a 49.5 inch belt (125.7cm) and a 289 uses a 47.25 inch(120cm)belt with a 36 degree "V" angle. Hope that helps! Jere -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PhastPhill at aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:33 PM To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] fan belts! My MKII uses a NAPA 7475. Or try the Tigers United website, I'm sure the info is there....cheers _ From tsmit at shaw.ca Thu May 8 21:36:33 2008 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 21:36:33 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] fan belts! In-Reply-To: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97207889C0C@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> References: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97207889C0C@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Message-ID: <4823C6C1.1010105@shaw.ca> The shorter belt would be accounted for by the alternator... it has a smaller drive pulley (I think) and is probably also mounted closer inboard than the 260's generator. You are definitely best off using the shortest belt you can get on there, because the further outboard you tilt the generator, the more likely it will wipe out something important like the brake light switch or its connections. When I changed over to an alternator I measured the belt I had (too long) and then took it to the auto parts store and bought the next two shorter sizes, just to be sure I'd get one that fit within the adjustment range I had. Cheers, Theo Teepen, Jere wrote: > Someone please correct me if I am wrong (likely), but I believe in the NAPA > p/n 7475, the last three digits indicate 47.5 inches. > > Now that I have looked in the shop manual, it says the 260 uses a 49.5 inch > belt (125.7cm) and a 289 uses a 47.25 inch(120cm)belt with a 36 degree "V" > angle. > > Hope that helps! > > Jere > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > PhastPhill at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:33 PM > To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] fan belts! > > My MKII uses a NAPA 7475. Or try the Tigers United website, I'm sure the info > is there....cheers _ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tsmit at shaw.ca > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri May 9 04:34:09 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:34:09 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] fan belts! In-Reply-To: <4823C6C1.1010105@shaw.ca> References: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97207889C0C@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> <4823C6C1.1010105@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <39a841b0805090334t639e7d11w1da5c888bbf89bc6@mail.gmail.com> here in almost metric england i found my local 'halfords' (a sort of rubbish version of napa) had belts with the size in millimeters in the part number (although i had to work that out myself - they told me if my car wasn't listed there was no way to cross reference and that the belts were not listed in size). a 1250mm belt fitted my alternator just fine. thanks to tony for the tip of just buying several sizes and thanks to all who suggested the ball park right size. - owain. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:36 AM, Theo Smit wrote: > The shorter belt would be accounted for by the alternator... it has a > smaller drive pulley (I think) and is probably also mounted closer inboard > than the 260's generator. You are definitely best off using the shortest > belt you can get on there, because the further outboard you tilt the > generator, the more likely it will wipe out something important like the > brake light switch or its connections. > > When I changed over to an alternator I measured the belt I had (too long) > and then took it to the auto parts store and bought the next two shorter > sizes, just to be sure I'd get one that fit within the adjustment range I > had. > > Cheers, > Theo > > Teepen, Jere wrote: >> >> Someone please correct me if I am wrong (likely), but I believe in the >> NAPA >> p/n 7475, the last three digits indicate 47.5 inches. >> >> Now that I have looked in the shop manual, it says the 260 uses a 49.5 >> inch >> belt (125.7cm) and a 289 uses a 47.25 inch(120cm)belt with a 36 degree "V" >> angle. >> >> Hope that helps! >> >> Jere >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net >> [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >> PhastPhill at aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:33 PM >> To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Tigers] fan belts! >> >> My MKII uses a NAPA 7475. Or try the Tigers United website, I'm sure the >> info >> is there....cheers _ >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as tsmit at shaw.ca >> >> Tigers at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers >> >> http://www.team.net/archive From vegaslegal at aol.com Fri May 9 09:03:30 2008 From: vegaslegal at aol.com (vegaslegal at aol.com) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:03:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay Message-ID: <8CA7FFCF9FA77AC-B38-6B2@webmail-nc05.sysops.aol.com> Wow, you guys are brutal.? Having gone through, and currently going through, a lot of stuff on a similar car, its a pretty good job, albeit over priced (but I like that if it sells). It is pretty clear to me that what you are looking at is a car that was picked-up by the restorer after someone had already done (attempted) an interior restoration.? While the interior is somewhat dirty, in?comparison with the rest of the car the seats, carpet, dash, and soft pieces?all appear new.??Indicative of this further are the fact that the lower door pulls were not reinstalled with the new interior (before pictures)?and the center counsel cover is not an original configuration. I also suspect that the interior was originally red.? Pointedly, the red interior cars that keep popping up are all?Color Code 1 (black)?MK1a's.? From the time I got mine I have been told that there were no such cars, then someone advertised that their's was the only one, then another and another?showed up, then there's mine.? All are Code 1. The bumper problem results from misinstalled bracket spacers.? An easy fix. As to the mileage being original, if that car was driven through three winters in its climate that is exactly how the engine bay and the balance of the car would look after forty years and 25k.? Its also exactly how it would look after forty years and 125k.? Considering the rust through, etc., the "original" mileage is not that important on that car anyway. IMHO From CoolVT at aol.com Fri May 9 09:11:01 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:11:01 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay Message-ID: I think all of us are happy to see this Tiger restored and staying on the road. I think the nit-picking comes because of the asking price. If the seller was asking $29,000 I don't think you'd hear about the perceived shortcomings of the restoration. In other words, for a $55,000 Tiger you don't expect to have to purchase and install a soft top. I agree on your rust comments. A Vermont car going through a few winters of salt would look like this or probably worse. mark **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Fri May 9 09:54:19 2008 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:54:19 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay References: Message-ID: I guess like many of the people here, I am very glad to see a rusted tiger that was restored, rather than used as an Alger conversion. Of course the price and the missing pieces is bothersome. I just hope that someone new to the community doesn't strike a bargain on the car for a few $ less than his asking price and then find out later it was only worth 1/2 his asking price. After having tried my hand at amateur auto refinishing as a kid when the only thing I could afford to do was fix things myself, I have to admire the time and skill that goes into doing the body work right. I wish I had that kind of skill, because I think I would be more adventurous in taking on projects where investing a lot of sweat equity would yield a nice car with a lower amount of investment in cash, and a high investment of time and self labor. As it is though, I don't believe it is possible to buy a car in that kind of shape cheap enough that you could afford to pay someone to do all that work and not have a car that cost twice what it would have been to just find a cleaner example starting car to begin with. Just curious, anyone have any guesses on how many body shop hours would be needed to restore a tiger needing this much work, and how much that would cost? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay >I think all of us are happy to see this Tiger restored and staying on the > road. I think the nit-picking comes because of the asking price. If the > seller was asking $29,000 I don't think you'd hear about the perceived > shortcomings of the restoration. In other words, for a $55,000 Tiger you > don't expect to > have to purchase and install a soft top. > I agree on your rust comments. A Vermont car going through a few winters > of > salt would look like this or probably worse. > mark > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on > family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tigerman67 at hotmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From cjcoffel at sonic.net Fri May 9 10:16:16 2008 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:16:16 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay References: Message-ID: <000c01c8b1f0$02c17780$6401a8c0@pc1> Tiger people are, well Tiger people. What I can't fathom is how a churched up Falcon is worth 100k but Tigers have a hard time getting 30. I should have bought a Shelby because I'm gonna be dead by the time Tigers qualify as a good investment. Chris From laurin212 at yahoo.com Fri May 9 10:18:49 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <485471.31343.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> answer: rust-free tiger - body work and paint i'd est 300 hrs @$65 = $20k rusty tiger - body work and paint i'd est 600+ hrs @$65 = $40k+ this comes from my recent discussions with tiger-specific restorers --- Tigerman wrote: > Just curious, anyone have any guesses on how many body shop hours would be > needed to restore a tiger needing this much work, and how much that would > cost? Peter Laurinaitis peter.laurinaitis.wg02 at wharton.upenn.edu From CoolVT at aol.com Fri May 9 10:51:21 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:51:21 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay Message-ID: I agree that if the seller looks at what it might have cost to restore this car the $55,000 asking price isn't out of line. The problem is a typical buyer doesn't care what it cost to restore. Buyers are mostly concerned with "is this car worth $55,000 on the open market?" If the car had cost $100,000 to restore, should a buyer pay $110,000? Which probably reiterates that point that has been made before, it's pretty tough to recover the cost of restoration when it's time to sell. I have a feeling that it could go for $45,000+ to someone new to the Tiger market. M **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From atwittsend at verizon.net Fri May 9 11:23:15 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 10:23:15 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay References: <000c01c8b1f0$02c17780$6401a8c0@pc1> Message-ID: <004b01c8b1f9$5e3d0710$0202a8c0@student2> >>>What I can't fathom is how a churched up Falcon is worth 100k but Tigers >>>have a hard time getting 30.<<< I would agree. On the other hand it is the reason I was able to afford a Tiger in the first place. So, I guess it goes both ways. I think cars like the Jensen Interceptor kind of fit the same mold. They were the cars you bought if you couldn't afford a.... fill in the blank (___________). It still doesn't explain the commonplace "Detroit iron" selling for what it does, but I think in part explains the undervalued Tiger. Tom From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:24:18 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 18:24:18 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Dyno results Message-ID: <39a841b0805091024s2e08c6b9ta66ca327335a16fb@mail.gmail.com> Just dynoed my car - 275hp @ 4700 rpm at the wheels. It was still pulling but the engine was vibrating so much that the guy didn't want to go to higher rpms. Didn't adjust the timing either. Will do that after I put in a new clutch and flywheel to try and resolve the vibrations. The first job was to adjust the throttle lingage and bend the pedel up to get full throttle on the carb. Then get the secondary barrels working - float was sticking and inlet valve not correctly set. Tweek the mixture at idle a little leaner and hey presto 120 to 275. so after the clutch over for over 300. From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri May 9 12:49:19 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:49:19 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] fan belts! In-Reply-To: <39a841b0805081515g1b1889afhfd44abd568eb6c44@mail.gmail.com> References: <39a841b0805081515g1b1889afhfd44abd568eb6c44@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48249CAF.8040601@SoCal.rr.com> Owain, and Tigers, I do not want to sound like a broken record, but the answer to many "part number" issues is easily (more or less) solved by referring to the many resources accumulated for you on TigersUnited.com. In particular, the "Rootes Parts List, addendum for the Sunbeam Parts List" shows detail drawing explosions of all Tiger Unique items. In particular, the fan belt (D152 Plate Number drawing), Page 10, list the part number as "Rootes 610024, Ford C2OZ-8620-E" for Ford or Parts House cross reference. There is a separate Rootes number for RHD, but I don't know why. Here is the TigersUnited.com reference page, and FREE Acrobat Reader download. For the ENTIRE parts list, but longish download: http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/FactParts.asp For the ENGINE (Motor) pages alone: http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/Parts_List/2-AF-EngineMotor.pdf Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Owain Lloyd wrote: > i had been planning to put a spare fan belt in the trunk for a while > now but never got round to it. > tonight, on my way to the airport to collect my wife, the flaming > thing snaps and i don't have a spare (or the snapped one, either). > > can anyone please let me know the size of the tiger fan belt and if > possible a common (european) car that has a similar size. > i need to find one locally tomorrow morning as i'm booked on a rolling > road tomorrow afternoon. > > many thanks, indeed. > > - owain. From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri May 9 13:14:23 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 12:14:23 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4824A28F.4090500@SoCal.rr.com> Mark, Good point on buyer's view. However, looking at the TV car auctions, the price that "Resto-Mods" of non-original replicars are selling for, the Tiger ought to be more. On the other hand, there do not appear to be many foreign cars, or real sports cars at those auctions. Maybe today's set of collector's are too enthralled with the cars they saw as youths, and sports cars were not amongst them. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > I agree that if the seller looks at what it might have cost to restore this > car the $55,000 asking price isn't out of line. The problem is a typical > buyer doesn't care what it cost to restore. Buyers are mostly concerned with > "is this car worth $55,000 on the open market?" If the car had cost $100,000 > to restore, should a buyer pay $110,000? Which probably reiterates that > point that has been made before, it's pretty tough to recover the cost of > restoration when it's time to sell. > I have a feeling that it could go for $45,000+ to someone new to the Tiger > market. > M From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri May 9 13:40:29 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:40:29 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] fan belts! In-Reply-To: <48249CAF.8040601@SoCal.rr.com> References: <39a841b0805081515g1b1889afhfd44abd568eb6c44@mail.gmail.com> <48249CAF.8040601@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0805091240g134d00i694fc38a0e8daa95@mail.gmail.com> Yes but sadly neither rootes nor ford usa part nums help in the uk. It was the size that helped. Thanks On 5/9/08, Steve Laifman wrote: > Owain, and Tigers, > > I do not want to sound like a broken record, but the answer to many > "part number" issues is easily (more or less) solved by referring to the > many resources accumulated for you on TigersUnited.com. > > In particular, the "Rootes Parts List, addendum for the Sunbeam Parts > List" shows detail drawing explosions of all Tiger Unique items. > > In particular, the fan belt (D152 Plate Number drawing), Page 10, list > the part number as "Rootes 610024, Ford C2OZ-8620-E" for Ford or Parts > House cross reference. There is a separate Rootes number for RHD, but I > don't know why. Here is the TigersUnited.com reference page, and FREE > Acrobat Reader download. > > For the ENTIRE parts list, but longish download: > > http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/FactParts.asp > > For the ENGINE (Motor) pages alone: > > http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/Parts_List/2-AF-EngineMotor.pdf > > Steve > > ___ > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > > > > Owain Lloyd wrote: >> i had been planning to put a spare fan belt in the trunk for a while >> now but never got round to it. >> tonight, on my way to the airport to collect my wife, the flaming >> thing snaps and i don't have a spare (or the snapped one, either). >> >> can anyone please let me know the size of the tiger fan belt and if >> possible a common (european) car that has a similar size. >> i need to find one locally tomorrow morning as i'm booked on a rolling >> road tomorrow afternoon. >> >> many thanks, indeed. >> >> - owain. From laurin212 at yahoo.com Fri May 9 14:04:45 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] fan belts! In-Reply-To: <48249CAF.8040601@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <875591.49820.qm@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> when i plug in steve's ford ref # below, the napa x-ref book spits out NBH257495 as the napa part #, which is the same part napa web site suggests when you type in a search for a 1965 sunbeam tiger with a 260 --- Steve Laifman wrote: > Owain, and Tigers, > > I do not want to sound like a broken record, but the answer to many > "part number" issues is easily (more or less) solved by referring to the > many resources accumulated for you on TigersUnited.com. > > In particular, the "Rootes Parts List, addendum for the Sunbeam Parts > List" shows detail drawing explosions of all Tiger Unique items. > > In particular, the fan belt (D152 Plate Number drawing), Page 10, list > the part number as "Rootes 610024, Ford C2OZ-8620-E" for Ford or Parts > House cross reference. There is a separate Rootes number for RHD, but I > don't know why. Here is the TigersUnited.com reference page, and FREE > Acrobat Reader download. > > For the ENTIRE parts list, but longish download: > > http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/FactParts.asp > > For the ENGINE (Motor) pages alone: > > http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/Parts_List/2-AF-EngineMotor.pdf > > Steve > Peter Laurinaitis peter.laurinaitis.wg02 at wharton.upenn.edu From jbbrown3 at tx.rr.com Fri May 9 19:06:08 2008 From: jbbrown3 at tx.rr.com (Joe Brown) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay In-Reply-To: <8CA7FFCF9FA77AC-B38-6B2@webmail-nc05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20080510010609.WLAC2106.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@OfficePC> My Tiger MK1a (B382000217LRXFE) is white (color code 92) and has the red interior. Is red very rare? Have Fun, Joe Brown -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jbbrown3=tx.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jbbrown3=tx.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of vegaslegal at aol.com Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 10:04 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay Wow, you guys are brutal.? Having gone through, and currently going through, a lot of stuff on a similar car, its a pretty good job, albeit over priced (but I like that if it sells). It is pretty clear to me that what you are looking at is a car that was picked-up by the restorer after someone had already done (attempted) an interior restoration.? While the interior is somewhat dirty, in?comparison with the rest of the car the seats, carpet, dash, and soft pieces?all appear new.??Indicative of this further are the fact that the lower door pulls were not reinstalled with the new interior (before pictures)?and the center counsel cover is not an original configuration. I also suspect that the interior was originally red.? Pointedly, the red interior cars that keep popping up are all?Color Code 1 (black)?MK1a's.? >From the time I got mine I have been told that there were no such cars, then someone advertised that their's was the only one, then another and another?showed up, then there's mine.? All are Code 1. The bumper problem results from misinstalled bracket spacers.? An easy fix. As to the mileage being original, if that car was driven through three winters in its climate that is exactly how the engine bay and the balance of the car would look after forty years and 25k.? Its also exactly how it would look after forty years and 125k.? Considering the rust through, etc., the "original" mileage is not that important on that car anyway. IMHO _______________________________________________ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 5:24 PM From shutchin at netjets.com Fri May 9 19:36:02 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 21:36:02 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay Message-ID: >From what I have heard any interior color other than black is kind of rare for the 1a and II cars that came to the U.S. Most of the cars with interiors other than black were some sort of special order/european delivery, etc.... Just what I have heard though. My car has a very rare combo..... 86 green with a black interior. Still fun to drag it out on a spring day. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From DJoh797014 at aol.com Fri May 9 20:24:06 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 22:24:06 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 1967 Tiger on ebay Message-ID: The sales brochure lists the various paint colors with available interior colors. Then Chrysler came into the picture. Out went the many combinations in with standardization. Soon all MK IA came with black interiors regardless of' the paint UNLESS you special ordered your car. My 1966 BRG came with black interior. Come to think of it, green seats would be hideous. Repro interiors other than black are hard to find because of the lack of demaind. Dave In a message dated 5/9/2008 8:36:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, shutchin at netjets.com writes: >From what I have heard any interior color other than black is kind of rare for the 1a and II cars that came to the U.S. Most of the cars with interiors other than black were some sort of special order/european delivery, etc.... Just what I have heard though. My car has a very rare combo..... 86 green with a black interior. Still fun to drag it out on a spring day. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From tgrrr at peoplepc.com Sat May 10 12:20:57 2008 From: tgrrr at peoplepc.com (Bob Hokanson) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 11:20:57 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Message-ID: <002201c8b2ca$984907c0$8be8f204@bob> Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? How big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring schematic? TIA Bob H From jim at island.net Sat May 10 12:57:12 2008 From: jim at island.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 11:57:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff In-Reply-To: <002201c8b2ca$984907c0$8be8f204@bob> Message-ID: <035a01c8b2cf$a8782680$0300a8c0@JIMPC> Hi Bob I rigged up a fuel pump shutoff on my 914V8 project many years ago. It was done using a 'Hobbs' pressure switch 't'eed into the external oil pump on the Buick V8 . I had a 3 position switch under the dash with the center position 'off' ( for anti-theft ) and one side 'hot' through the Hobbs .the other side of the switch was bypassing the Hobbs in case the fuel bowls happened to be empty so you could run the pump direct at startup and switch it to the other side as soon as the car started. I think the switch closed at about 10 psi., was 1/8" pipe thread and had 2 terminals. We are 'blessed?' with mechanical oil pressure gauges on the Tiger so I would think it wouldn't be that difficult to 't' in the switch... maybe even under the dash. Hey...another thought.. you could move the panel light wire over to the headlight switch and plug in another 3 position toggle in it's place and wire it up...! 'stealth' anti-theft AND accident or rollover protection... cool ! ;) Jim B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Hokanson Sent: May 10, 2008 11:21 AM To: Tigers Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? How big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring schematic? TIA Bob H You are subscribed as jim at island.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Sat May 10 13:20:07 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 12:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Message-ID: <275314.27868.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob - I think Ford makes the part I have, I don't have the Fomoco part number for the inertia switch handy, But I have one going in the Tiger down the road with the EFI and likely will retrofit to another car. I got mine from HRP world, I'm sure other places have the same part. If I dig up the box I can post the Ford number. Not inexpensive, but might be one of those life saver things... It is an odd thing that looks like it would trip easy, but used in racing so must be somewhat stable. http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=94,50,363_1186&action=product I think it is a Normally closed circuit, so it would be wired inline with your fuel pump and iginition relays. I don't know if I would run it inline of the pump as some of the pumps do draw a good amount of current and not sure the capacity of the switch. I also read somewhere (Might be the hrp site) that it should be mounted near the driver for easy reset... HTH Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Hokanson To: Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:20:57 AM Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? How big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring schematic? TIA Bob H You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Sat May 10 13:27:48 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 12:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Message-ID: <878968.88154.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey Jim - An oil pressure swtich is not enough protection in a crash, but much better then nothing at all, I think most all EFI cars on the road now a days' have some sort of crash sensor that cuts pumps, etc. If you look at some of the EFI and other Hiperf electric fuel pumps they can empty a swimming pool in short order (kidding of course) but they pump a huge amount of fuel in sort order. The inertia switch is a good thing as you don't have to get oil pressure cranking for the pressure switch to kick in, and is yet another good anti-theft, just kick it and it will pop ;-) Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim To: Bob Hokanson ; Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:57:12 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Hi Bob I rigged up a fuel pump shutoff on my 914V8 project many years ago. It was done using a 'Hobbs' pressure switch 't'eed into the external oil pump on the Buick V8 . I had a 3 position switch under the dash with the center position 'off' ( for anti-theft ) and one side 'hot' through the Hobbs .the other side of the switch was bypassing the Hobbs in case the fuel bowls happened to be empty so you could run the pump direct at startup and switch it to the other side as soon as the car started. I think the switch closed at about 10 psi., was 1/8" pipe thread and had 2 terminals. We are 'blessed?' with mechanical oil pressure gauges on the Tiger so I would think it wouldn't be that difficult to 't' in the switch... maybe even under the dash. Hey...another thought.. you could move the panel light wire over to the headlight switch and plug in another 3 position toggle in it's place and wire it up...! 'stealth' anti-theft AND accident or rollover protection... cool ! ;) Jim B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Hokanson Sent: May 10, 2008 11:21 AM To: Tigers Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? How big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring schematic? TIA Bob H You are subscribed as jim at island.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Sat May 10 13:31:32 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 12:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Message-ID: <536115.78343.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ok, I got lucky it was on the Front Seat of a 'Work In Progress' car in the garage. The Fomoco Part number on the box is - E1AZ-9341-B SWITCH WAP MADE IN ENGLAND Comes with connectors. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Sandy Ganz To: Bob Hokanson ; Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:20:07 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Bob - I think Ford makes the part I have, I don't have the Fomoco part number for the inertia switch handy, But I have one going in the Tiger down the road with the EFI and likely will retrofit to another car. I got mine from HRP world, I'm sure other places have the same part. If I dig up the box I can post the Ford number. Not inexpensive, but might be one of those life saver things... It is an odd thing that looks like it would trip easy, but used in racing so must be somewhat stable. http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=94,50,363_1186&action=product I think it is a Normally closed circuit, so it would be wired inline with your fuel pump and iginition relays. I don't know if I would run it inline of the pump as some of the pumps do draw a good amount of current and not sure the capacity of the switch. I also read somewhere (Might be the hrp site) that it should be mounted near the driver for easy reset... HTH Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Hokanson To: Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:20:57 AM Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? How big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring schematic? TIA Bob H You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From jim at island.net Sat May 10 13:34:02 2008 From: jim at island.net (Jim) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 12:34:02 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff In-Reply-To: <878968.88154.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <035e01c8b2d4$cdc77170$0300a8c0@JIMPC> Well I did my switch back in 1984..not sure if the word 'inertia' was invented yet... lol! I had the bypass for starting though so that wasn't an issue... I like the idea of the new style switch.. sounds pretty easy to install... -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Ganz [mailto:sganz at pacbell.net] Sent: May 10, 2008 12:28 PM To: Jim Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Hey Jim - An oil pressure swtich is not enough protection in a crash, but much better then nothing at all, I think most all EFI cars on the road now a days' have some sort of crash sensor that cuts pumps, etc. If you look at some of the EFI and other Hiperf electric fuel pumps they can empty a swimming pool in short order (kidding of course) but they pump a huge amount of fuel in sort order. The inertia switch is a good thing as you don't have to get oil pressure cranking for the pressure switch to kick in, and is yet another good anti-theft, just kick it and it will pop ;-) Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim To: Bob Hokanson ; Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:57:12 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Hi Bob I rigged up a fuel pump shutoff on my 914V8 project many years ago. It was done using a 'Hobbs' pressure switch 't'eed into the external oil pump on the Buick V8 . I had a 3 position switch under the dash with the center position 'off' ( for anti-theft ) and one side 'hot' through the Hobbs .the other side of the switch was bypassing the Hobbs in case the fuel bowls happened to be empty so you could run the pump direct at startup and switch it to the other side as soon as the car started. I think the switch closed at about 10 psi., was 1/8" pipe thread and had 2 terminals. We are 'blessed?' with mechanical oil pressure gauges on the Tiger so I would think it wouldn't be that difficult to 't' in the switch... maybe even under the dash. Hey...another thought.. you could move the panel light wire over to the headlight switch and plug in another 3 position toggle in it's place and wire it up...! 'stealth' anti-theft AND accident or rollover protection... cool ! ;) Jim B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Hokanson Sent: May 10, 2008 11:21 AM To: Tigers Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? How big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring schematic? TIA Bob H You are subscribed as jim at island.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Sat May 10 16:07:28 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 15:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Message-ID: <716763.64178.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just checked a ford site and it looks like the part number has been updated to 4W7Z 9341 AA Looked to be about 39 Bucks at the one spot I checked at some ford dealership that sell parts on line. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Sandy Ganz To: Sandy Ganz ; Bob Hokanson ; Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:31:32 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Ok, I got lucky it was on the Front Seat of a 'Work In Progress' car in the garage. The Fomoco Part number on the box is - E1AZ-9341-B SWITCH WAP MADE IN ENGLAND Comes with connectors. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Sandy Ganz To: Bob Hokanson ; Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:20:07 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Bob - I think Ford makes the part I have, I don't have the Fomoco part number for the inertia switch handy, But I have one going in the Tiger down the road with the EFI and likely will retrofit to another car. I got mine from HRP world, I'm sure other places have the same part. If I dig up the box I can post the Ford number. Not inexpensive, but might be one of those life saver things... It is an odd thing that looks like it would trip easy, but used in racing so must be somewhat stable. http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=94,50,363_1186&action=product I think it is a Normally closed circuit, so it would be wired inline with your fuel pump and iginition relays. I don't know if I would run it inline of the pump as some of the pumps do draw a good amount of current and not sure the capacity of the switch. I also read somewhere (Might be the hrp site) that it should be mounted near the driver for easy reset... HTH Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Hokanson To: Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:20:57 AM Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? How big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring schematic? TIA Bob H You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Sat May 10 16:18:46 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 15:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Message-ID: <75927.99645.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Last comment ;-) Not sure if the one from the Ford dealer has the connector and pins, the one from HRP world did. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Sandy Ganz To: Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 3:07:28 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Just checked a ford site and it looks like the part number has been updated to 4W7Z 9341 AA Looked to be about 39 Bucks at the one spot I checked at some ford dealership that sell parts on line. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Sandy Ganz To: Sandy Ganz ; Bob Hokanson ; Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:31:32 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Ok, I got lucky it was on the Front Seat of a 'Work In Progress' car in the garage. The Fomoco Part number on the box is - E1AZ-9341-B SWITCH WAP MADE IN ENGLAND Comes with connectors. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Sandy Ganz To: Bob Hokanson ; Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 12:20:07 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Bob - I think Ford makes the part I have, I don't have the Fomoco part number for the inertia switch handy, But I have one going in the Tiger down the road with the EFI and likely will retrofit to another car. I got mine from HRP world, I'm sure other places have the same part. If I dig up the box I can post the Ford number. Not inexpensive, but might be one of those life saver things... It is an odd thing that looks like it would trip easy, but used in racing so must be somewhat stable. http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=94,50,363_1186&action=product I think it is a Normally closed circuit, so it would be wired inline with your fuel pump and iginition relays. I don't know if I would run it inline of the pump as some of the pumps do draw a good amount of current and not sure the capacity of the switch. I also read somewhere (Might be the hrp site) that it should be mounted near the driver for easy reset... HTH Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Hokanson To: Tigers Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:20:57 AM Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? How big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring schematic? TIA Bob H You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Sun May 11 06:26:02 2008 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 08:26:02 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Fuel pump mounting Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB52@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Howdy all. First, thanks so much for all the advice on FoMoCo parts. I picked up a new solenoid and had hours of fun getting the old one out and the new one in! I've got another question that I'd love help with. A previous owner replaced the SU fuel pump with one of those little square electric pumps. I've got a replacement SU, but I have no idea how it mounts to the car. I know generally where it goes, but was there a mounting bracket of some kind? Would someone be willing to snap a photo or two of their fuel pump so I can see how it mounts in? My Healeys and my MGC have brackets that mount to either the body or the frame. Does something similar go in the Tiger? Thanks as always! NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Sun May 11 09:31:41 2008 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 11:31:41 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Mark I. Trim question Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB54@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Wow, I'm full of questions today. I've got a Mk 1, so it has the three hinged metal panels that cover the top. The large hinged panel has padding on it on the veritcal surface. The side hinged panels, however, are just painted body color. I was looking a some photos of Alpines today, and one photo seems to show that those side hinged panels had trim below the chrome trim. I'd love to hear advice from other Mk 1 owners. Thanks!! B. NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From fastsage at cox.net Sun May 11 10:20:22 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Another Tiger Fuel Pump Question In-Reply-To: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB52@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> References: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB52@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Message-ID: <48271CC6.6060408@cox.net> Coincidentally, I've been running one of those little cube fuel pumps too for years and am thinking I need to change it to a better one. I switched to the cube after my stock pump failed two times in one year. The cube pump has run for the last several years but I had vapor lock problems yesterday ... stalling at idle after sitting with the engine off for a while after driving in 90 degree weather. Hottest day of the year so far here in Arizona. It would re-start immediately after stalling and drive OK, but stall again when I got to the next stop light. By the time I got it home after a 10 minute run, it idled fine again. I just checked my under the hood fuel pressure gauge I have installed right before my Holley carb.. On immediate cold start up, I get 4 1/2 pounds of pressure. Five minutes or so later, when the engine is at running temperature (180-190 degrees), fuel pressure has dropped to slightly over 3 pounds. That's what it read yesterday when I had the stalling problem. Is this normal, or should I be getting a constant 4 1/2 pounds of pressure no matter what the water temp? I wonder if this is what's contributing to what seems to be vapor lock. Maybe the pump is not strong enough to push the fuel through in hot weather? By the way, I already have my mufflers heat shielded, and have the fuel line wrapped with Thermotec heat shield all the way from the tanks to the carb. The next question is if I change, which pump should I change to? I get about 250 HP at the rear wheels now, if that may be a determining factor. Has anyone out there had vapor lock issues, change to another fuel pump, and solved the problem? Steve Sage P.S..I'm going to post separately now on my successful intake manifold upgrade for anyone interested. Steinman, Bill wrote: > A previous owner replaced the SU fuel pump with one of those little square electric pumps. I've got a replacement SU, but I have no idea how it mounts to the car. I know generally where it goes, but was there a mounting bracket of some kind? Would someone be willing to snap a photo or two of their fuel pump so I can see how it mounts in? My Healeys and my MGC have brackets that mount to either the body or the frame. Does something similar go in the Tiger? > > Thanks as always! > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09800 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From fastsage at cox.net Sun May 11 10:47:51 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:47:51 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Intake Manifold Swap Update Message-ID: <48272337.4010403@cox.net> A month or so ago I posted about maybe changing out my original LAT Tiger lettering manifold for an Edlebrock RPM Air Gap manifold. I went ahead and did it three weeks ago and everything seems to be working great. Thanks to all the excellent help and suggestions made by our group here when I originally asked about doing it. I measured everything every way I could figure, and when installation time for the new one came, the RPM Air Gap fit with no problem. I decided to run the after market Edlebrock "triangle" air filter on it when I'm not at a car show, as I remember from past Tiger dyno days that it gives more HP than with the stock oval filter. The two changes I had to make to get that to work were to go from a 1" heat spacer under the Holley carb to a 1/2" spacer. I also had to cut off most of the base of the Edlebrock filter assembly, but with that, everything fits under the closed hood (just barely, but it makes it). One factor to consider is that I've been told that the engine may sit higher or lower in individual Tiger engine bays, so measure carefully before you do the manifold swap if you're thinking of it. I haven't had it dyno'd yet to compare, but the "seat of the pants" test seems to bear out that the change was worth the trouble. The Tiger definitely revs higher and has a lot more power at mid to higher RPMS, which is where I am usually running it. When I talked to Edlebrock tech support before the install they said that the RPM Air Gap flows better than the non-air gap RPM, for anyone else thinking of a swap. There also seems to be more torque all along the RPM curve compared to the LAT manifold. Where before, doing a high speed pass, if I dropped from 5th into third I'd often "run out of revs". Now it keeps pulling strongly up to where I decide I'd better not see how high I can rev it before it blows up. Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09800 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From fastsage at cox.net Sun May 11 10:56:21 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 09:56:21 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] And Finally, One More Question! Message-ID: <48272535.5090305@cox.net> I've had the vacuum line from my vacuum advance distributor running from the distributor to what is officially supposed to be the vacuum port on my Holley carb, the port on the metering block. When I pulled the vacuum line off today, there was no difference in engine RPMs. I put a cap on that port and re-installed the line on one of the two vacuum ports on the base of the carb. When I pulled the cap off that port, RPMs raised considerably (a lot more vacuum?). I've been suspicious that my change to a vacuum advance distributor didn't make a gas mileage difference. Maybe because there was little vacuum coming from the port on the metering block Have I made the right decision? Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09800 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From Carmods at aol.com Sun May 11 12:27:46 2008 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 14:27:46 EDT Subject: [Tigers] the vacuum port on the Holley carb, Message-ID: _fastsage at cox.net_ (mailto:fastsage at cox.net) writes: Maybe because there was little vacuum coming from the port on the metering block Have I made the right decision? Steve, I prefer to use the the vacuum port below the butterfly valve on the Holley carburetor. Some people don't. There is not supposed to be vacuum at that port at idle. This provides a lower advance at idle that improves idle quality. When the butterfly valve began's to open you will get vacuum to operate the distributor advance. If you put a gauge on the line and drive the car you will see the vacuum come in as you open the throttle. John Logan **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Sun May 11 12:32:01 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 11:32:01 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Mark I. Trim question In-Reply-To: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB54@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> References: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB54@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Message-ID: <48273BA1.9040005@SoCal.rr.com> Bill, My Mk I Tiger has a pebble grain covering over the rear vertical panel, with appropriate openings for the opening latch pull. There is no padding, the material is on a panel, and no chromed trim, The cover is pop-riveted on. The side panels are covered in the same manner, with a chromed top edges. The lower covering, on the portion over the wheel wells, are covered in the same material, but are somewhat padded with no riveted rigid panel. The rear "non-seat" is covered with the same type material, but "paneled" with heat seams, no rigid inside, and no rivets. Hope that helps. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Steinman, Bill wrote: > Wow, I'm full of questions today. I've got a Mk 1, so it has the three hinged metal panels that cover the top. The large hinged panel has padding on it on the veritcal surface. The side hinged panels, however, are just painted body color. I was looking a some photos of Alpines today, and one photo seems to show that those side hinged panels had trim below the chrome trim. I'd love to hear advice from other Mk 1 owners. Thanks!! > > B. From fastsage at cox.net Sun May 11 19:56:24 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 18:56:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Mention on T.V.! Message-ID: <4827A3C8.80200@cox.net> Watching Andy Rooney on 60 minutes on TV just now, he showed a pewter model of a Sunbeam Tiger, saying, "This is a model of a Sunbeam Tiger someone sent me, because I've owned a real one since 1966". Pretty cool, but that's all he said about it. Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09800 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From marcsmall at comcast.net Sun May 11 21:49:42 2008 From: marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 23:49:42 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Mention on T.V.! In-Reply-To: <4827A3C8.80200@cox.net> References: <4827A3C8.80200@cox.net> Message-ID: <20080512035302.0E1E618767C@autox.team.net> At 09:56 PM 5/11/2008, Steve Sage wrote: >Watching Andy Rooney on 60 minutes on TV just now, he showed a pewter >model of a Sunbeam Tiger, saying, "This is a model of a Sunbeam Tiger >someone sent me, because I've owned a real one since 1966". Pretty cool, >but that's all he said about it. Andy Rooney is a prize jerk. I have the correspondence to prove it. Marc msmall at aya.yale.edu Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir! From bamcnulty at optonline.net Sat May 10 14:05:40 2008 From: bamcnulty at optonline.net (Tony McNulty) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 16:05:40 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff References: <878968.88154.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001a01c8b2d9$3897d0e0$0300a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> How much accel/decel force (or impact, I guess) does it take to set of an airbag? Sort of seems that something along those lines could serve as a trigger. Tony Mc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy Ganz" To: "Jim" Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff > Hey Jim - > > An oil pressure swtich is not enough protection in a crash, but much > better then nothing at all, I think most all EFI cars on the road now a > days' have some sort of crash sensor that cuts pumps, etc. If you look at > some of the EFI and other Hiperf electric fuel pumps they can empty a > swimming pool in short order (kidding of course) but they pump a huge > amount of fuel in sort order. The inertia switch is a good thing as you > don't have to get oil pressure cranking for the pressure switch to kick > in, and is yet another good anti-theft, just kick it and it will pop ;-) > > Sandy > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim > To: Bob Hokanson ; Tigers > Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:57:12 AM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff > > Hi Bob > > I rigged up a fuel pump shutoff on my 914V8 project many years ago. It was > done using a 'Hobbs' pressure switch 't'eed into the external oil pump on > the Buick V8 . I had a 3 position switch under the dash with the center > position 'off' ( for anti-theft ) and one side 'hot' through the Hobbs > .the > other side of the switch was bypassing the Hobbs in case the fuel bowls > happened to be empty so you could run the pump direct at startup and > switch > it to the other side as soon as the car started. I think the switch closed > at about 10 psi., was 1/8" pipe thread and had 2 terminals. > > We are 'blessed?' with mechanical oil pressure gauges on the Tiger so I > would think it wouldn't be that difficult to 't' in the switch... maybe > even > under the dash. > > Hey...another thought.. you could move the panel light wire over to the > headlight switch and plug in another 3 position toggle in it's place and > wire it up...! 'stealth' anti-theft AND accident or rollover protection... > cool ! ;) > > Jim > B382000446 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob > Hokanson > Sent: May 10, 2008 11:21 AM > To: Tigers > Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Pump Shutoff > > Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut > off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? What switch did you use? > How > big is it? I think I recall someone saying they had used one from a Ford > pickup... ? Tips, tricks, advice or installation instruction? Wiring > schematic? > > TIA > Bob H > You are subscribed as jim at island.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as bamcnulty at optonline.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From gharlowe at comcast.net Sun May 11 11:23:41 2008 From: gharlowe at comcast.net (gharlowe at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 13:23:41 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Another Tiger Fuel Pump Question In-Reply-To: <48271CC6.6060408@cox.net> Message-ID: <000b01c8b38b$c6370620$030010ac@gharlowe9h3kpn> I'm also curious what aftermarket fuel pump solutions are out there for the stock Mk1A Tiger pump location. I installed a Holley "Red" electric fuel pump in the stock location. The fuel pump has repeatedly overheated and conked out, leaving me coasting with a dead engine. After a few nervous minutes on the shoulder, it would cool down enough to get me going again. Filters were clear; tanks have been recoated. The Holley tech line explained it was a common problem when the pump is mounted in a location above the tank. As a gravity-fed pump, it should be mounted below the fuel source (such as the Mk2 location in the trunk well). I'd prefer to avoid drilling holes in the trunk for fuel line entry/exit plus mounting holes for the fuel pump, if possible. What aftermarket pumps have others successfully installed in the Mk1/Mk1A location? Thanks much, - Graham Harlowe B382001466 ------------------------ Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Another Tiger Fuel Pump Question Coincidentally, I've been running one of those little cube fuel pumps too for years and am thinking I need to change it to a better one. I switched to the cube after my stock pump failed two times in one year. The cube pump has run for the last several years but I had vapor lock problems yesterday ... stalling at idle after sitting with the engine off for a while after driving in 90 degree weather. Hottest day of the year so far here in Arizona. It would re-start immediately after stalling and drive OK, but stall again when I got to the next stop light. By the time I got it home after a 10 minute run, it idled fine again. I just checked my under the hood fuel pressure gauge I have installed right before my Holley carb.. On immediate cold start up, I get 4 1/2 pounds of pressure. Five minutes or so later, when the engine is at running temperature (180-190 degrees), fuel pressure has dropped to slightly over 3 pounds. That's what it read yesterday when I had the stalling problem. Is this normal, or should I be getting a constant 4 1/2 pounds of pressure no matter what the water temp? I wonder if this is what's contributing to what seems to be vapor lock. Maybe the pump is not strong enough to push the fuel through in hot weather? By the way, I already have my mufflers heat shielded, and have the fuel line wrapped with Thermotec heat shield all the way from the tanks to the carb. The next question is if I change, which pump should I change to? I get about 250 HP at the rear wheels now, if that may be a determining factor. Has anyone out there had vapor lock issues, change to another fuel pump, and solved the problem? Steve Sage P.S..I'm going to post separately now on my successful intake manifold upgrade for anyone interested. Steinman, Bill wrote: > A previous owner replaced the SU fuel pump with one of those little square electric pumps. I've got a replacement SU, but I have no idea how it mounts to the car. I know generally where it goes, but was there a mounting bracket of some kind? Would someone be willing to snap a photo or two of their fuel pump so I can see how it mounts in? My Healeys and my MGC have brackets that mount to either the body or the frame. Does something similar go in the Tiger? > > Thanks as always! From modtiger at comcast.net Sun May 11 20:26:07 2008 From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 19:26:07 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Some passing thoughts on the Black Tiger restoration Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080511191917.039eb008@comcast.net> I think the recent discussion of the Black Tiger revealed several topics and shown several more that are pertinent to the Marque. This restoration didn't occur in a vacuum. Someone "found" a reasonably rare example of the Marque (Color code #1) and invested a considerable sum in "saving" this particular rusty structure. Noting that it was accomplished by a group that is not commonly associated with Tigers tells you quite a bit. It means that other investors and enthusiasts are becoming more aware of the Tiger. This was not an example of a long term owner "saving" his pride and joy. If it was, it would be for their future enjoyment and not put up for sale immediately after completion. This clearly appears to be an investment for profit The pictures of the external bodywork and floors were through, but the series of pictures certainly lacked any knowledge or information about the structural integrity of the finished chassis. It is not obvious that the pieces were taken from an Alpine donor. They looked more like pieces created by Rob Martel, our favorite Canadian replacement panel creator. Since the floors and lower fender structures were obviously in need of replacement, one has to wonder about the X frame, the front and rear sub frames, the exhaust pass thru's etc. Not one picture about these critical structures, or any of the area's that I commonly rant about, the front leaf spring mounts, Panhard bar mount, and the tube nuts in the front frame horns. I'm assuming these omissions are due to the lack of familiarity by the shop that did the photographs of the reconstruction. But what value would one put on a chassis that clearly showed severe rust and degradation at the start of the restoration process, but no visual indication that these very critical structural area's also received appropriate attention. I think the lack of the soft top, the mismatched gages and the other irregularities again show a restoration shop that is not that familiar with the Tiger and what the collective owners expect out of a restoration. Unfortunately, E-Bay continues to prove that there are buyers out there with money but very limited knowledge, that are willing and able to pay premium prices for pretty-ed up pieces that may or may not have what most of us understand as an appropriate price to value relationship or even Alger imposters . All that said, I am beginning to believe that the obscurity that we have been blessed or cursed with, depending on your personal perspective, for many many years, is fast coming to an end. We have a National magazine that has just restored a Tiger and is about to begin a series of stories and showings on this process. We have the release next month of the new "Get Smart" movie, featuring a vehicle that closely approximates and for all practical purposes appears to be a Tiger. We have the recent history of the Resto-Mod "Tiger", created by Dale Akuszewski for Scott Lempert, selling at national auction for over $100k. The Sunbeam Tiger Owners Association (STOA) has managed to authenticate over 10% of the total original Tiger production run in our 15 year effort, thus giving knowledgeable collectors a reasonable level of confidence in their individual Tiger investments. All of these indicators tell me that Ian's very special piece of automotive history is about to become a much more significant player in the collector world. Move over Shelby, the Tiger is on the move, again. Tom Hall ModTiger Engineering LLC www.tigerengineering.net From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon May 12 06:02:53 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:02:53 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] hose fittings and adaptors Message-ID: <39a841b0805120502v1bc0123ajad64f14c914f6e9@mail.gmail.com> can anyone identify if this fitting is AN or NPT or tell me how to check? and if so is it 3/8 NPT, 6AN, or some other size? http://owainlloyd.no-ip.com:8080/photos/Tiger/Carb/slides/CIMG3055.JPG i need to buy some fittings to install a pressure gauge and regulator which are NPT. any recommendations on places to buy them from would also be appreciated. many thanks. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon May 12 06:25:00 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:25:00 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] interesting clutch observation Message-ID: <39a841b0805120525m1ce7f36g5506de4a43cabb39@mail.gmail.com> as I've mentioned previously, I've been suffering some bad vibrations from my clutch, its been making unhealthy sounds and smells and my dyno pulls only got up to 4700rpm due to these vibrations. well on sunday, i did 5 runs up a Prescott Speed Hillclimb thinking that if the clutch was going to go soon, it might as well go in spectacular style. The clutch survived and I had some good runs (will post videos on youtube at some point), but the point of this diatribe (and i'm getting to it...) is that on the 130 mile drive back home, I noticed that sometimes the vibrations disappeared completely until next time I dropped the clutch. I figured out that if the vibrations were present, all I had to do was drop the clutch and reengage it 3 or 4 times so get a clean engagement with no vibrations again until next time it was reengaged when the chance were the vibrations would return. this strategy worked perfectly for the long stretches of highway when it was left in 4th gear. Am I right in assuming that this rules out flywheel imbalance or anything else and points solely at the clutch? If so is there anything else that can be deduced? I'm assuming the only solution is to pull the engine and fit a new clutch? in which case, are all small block clutches interchangeable? can I buy the clutch in advance before removing the old one? I believe good things have been said recently of Centerforce. Any particular model that is not ridiculously stiff but can handle around 350HP at the wheels? From shutchin at netjets.com Mon May 12 06:31:09 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 08:31:09 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] interesting clutch observation Message-ID: Could be the throwout bearing. Once your in there you might as well do the clutch. Centerforce gold is what you want I think. I have one and like it very much. Smooth, not to heavy. I think it's the same part that goes in a 4 speed 65 Mustang. Could be wrong though. Have fun... ;) Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ----- Original Message ----- From: tigers-bounces+shutchin=netjets.com at autox.team.net To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Mon May 12 08:25:00 2008 Subject: [Tigers] interesting clutch observation as I've mentioned previously, I've been suffering some bad vibrations from my clutch, its been making unhealthy sounds and smells and my dyno pulls only got up to 4700rpm due to these vibrations. well on sunday, i did 5 runs up a Prescott Speed Hillclimb thinking that if the clutch was going to go soon, it might as well go in spectacular style. The clutch survived and I had some good runs (will post videos on youtube at some point), but the point of this diatribe (and i'm getting to it...) is that on the 130 mile drive back home, I noticed that sometimes the vibrations disappeared completely until next time I dropped the clutch. I figured out that if the vibrations were present, all I had to do was drop the clutch and reengage it 3 or 4 times so get a clean engagement with no vibrations again until next time it was reengaged when the chance were the vibrations would return. this strategy worked perfectly for the long stretches of highway when it was left in 4th gear. Am I right in assuming that this rules out flywheel imbalance or anything else and points solely at the clutch? If so is there anything else that can be deduced? I'm assuming the only solution is to pull the engine and fit a new clutch? in which case, are all small block clutches interchangeable? can I buy the clutch in advance before removing the old one? I believe good things have been said recently of Centerforce. Any particular model that is not ridiculously stiff but can handle around 350HP at the wheels? _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as shutchin at netjets.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From larryall at pacbell.net Mon May 12 09:07:07 2008 From: larryall at pacbell.net (Larry Allbritton) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 08:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Trim question Message-ID: <427119.48481.qm@web83007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Bill I did my doors last year and I was able to get the replacement vinyl covered pressboard for all three doors from Rick @ Sunbeam Specialties. He also sells replacement plastic pins that hole these in place. My pins were all faded. Before I did the disassembly for paint, etc., I adjusted and aligned the doors so that they would fit and close well and hopefully not scratch at the corners. Took them apart and cleaned and painted them. Put them back together with the new panels from Rick and voila. Like new. Good luck. Message: 1 Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 11:31:41 -0400 From: "Steinman, Bill" Subject: [Tigers] Mark I. Trim question To: Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DB54 at US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Wow, I'm full of questions today. I've got a Mk 1, so it has the three hinged metal panels that cover the top. The large hinged panel has padding on it on the veritcal surface. The side hinged panels, however, are just painted body color. I was looking a some photos of Alpines today, and one photo seems to show that those side hinged panels had trim below the chrome trim. I'd love to hear advice from other Mk 1 owners. Thanks!! B. From atwittsend at verizon.net Mon May 12 09:27:24 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 08:27:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] interesting clutch observation References: <39a841b0805120525m1ce7f36g5506de4a43cabb39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006c01c8b444$ae013670$0202a8c0@student2> The pilot bearing may be worn. This can create a random centering of the clutch in relation to the centerline of the crank. Your 3-4 tries to make it go away could possibly be the odds of getting it on center. Also, check your transmission (and bellhousing) to see that it is tightly bolted in. When I got my Tiger all the tranny bolts were loose and took about 2 turns each. I haven't driven my Tiger (long term, econo restoration), but I'm dreading the effects that had on the pilot and other transmission bearings that were being "leveraged." Tom From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Mon May 12 12:03:53 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:03:53 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Some passing thoughts on the Black Tiger restoration In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080511191917.039eb008@comcast.net> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20080511191917.039eb008@comcast.net> Message-ID: <48288689.5010207@SoCal.rr.com> Dear Tigers, and Tom, An excellent piece, by a knowledgeable Tiger expert, Tom Hall. Unfortunately, we have just learned, from Rob Martel, that he no longer is in the Tiger panels business, due to a issue with someone local to him. (Leaving details private) It is a shame, and bad news for us Tiger enthusiasts. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Tom Hall wrote: > < ---- snip ---> / " They looked more like pieces created by Rob Martel, our favorite Canadian replacement panel creator. Since the floors and lower fender structures were obviously in need of replacement, one has to wonder //about the X frame, the front and rear sub frames, the exhaust pass thru's etc." / > <--- snip ---> > > > Tom Hall > ModTiger Engineering LLC > www.tigerengineering.net From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Mon May 12 12:08:03 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] hose fittings and adaptors In-Reply-To: <39a841b0805120502v1bc0123ajad64f14c914f6e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <39a841b0805120502v1bc0123ajad64f14c914f6e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48288783.3060506@SoCal.rr.com> Owain, It looks like an AN fitting to me, but the entire plumbing is not Tiger, nor British. Try Earl's at: http://www.anplumbing.com/ Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Owain Lloyd wrote: > can anyone identify if this fitting is AN or NPT or tell me how to > check? and if so is it 3/8 NPT, 6AN, or some other size? > > http://owainlloyd.no-ip.com:8080/photos/Tiger/Carb/slides/CIMG3055.JPG > > i need to buy some fittings to install a pressure gauge and regulator > which are NPT. any recommendations on places to buy them from would > also be appreciated. > > many thanks. From laurin212 at yahoo.com Mon May 12 12:16:41 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] mark 2 on ebay - 280225949352 auction # Message-ID: <221619.84128.qm@web53607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> does anyone know of this mark 2 on ebay (280225949352)? is that pretty close to what orchard green is supposed to look like? whats with the dislexic vin #? was the luggage rack original? anything that doesnt look right on the car? seems like a nice car. peter Peter Laurinaitis peter.laurinaitis.wg02 at wharton.upenn.edu From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Mon May 12 13:15:15 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:15:15 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] hose fittings and adaptors Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF97@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> I'm guessing AN. http://www.hydraflowusa.com/products/hoses.aspx A 6-AN fitting is about 3/8" bore. If you have to mail-order stuff and connect AN and pipe thread things together then Summit Racing or Jegs are probably decent places to start for either house-brand or Earl's or other hose vendors' stuff. If you have to put aluminum pipe thread fittings into aluminum parts (such as fuel pressure regulators, other AN fittings, or oil filter adapters) then make sure you knock the sharp outer edge off the male pipe threads with some (wet) 400 grit paper or something, and use anti-seize compound, because otherwise it's pretty much 100% guaranteed to gall and destroy both parts. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Laifman Sent: May 12, 2008 12:08 PM To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com; Tiger's Den Subject: Re: [Tigers] hose fittings and adaptors Owain, It looks like an AN fitting to me, but the entire plumbing is not Tiger, nor British. Try Earl's at: http://www.anplumbing.com/ Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Owain Lloyd wrote: > can anyone identify if this fitting is AN or NPT or tell me how to > check? and if so is it 3/8 NPT, 6AN, or some other size? > > http://owainlloyd.no-ip.com:8080/photos/Tiger/Carb/slides/CIMG3055.JPG > > i need to buy some fittings to install a pressure gauge and regulator > which are NPT. any recommendations on places to buy them from would > also be appreciated. > > many thanks. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon May 12 13:39:51 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 20:39:51 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] hose fittings and adaptors In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF97@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF97@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0805121239g46ccddddv4d53ab0e1feae884@mail.gmail.com> the consensus seams to be 6AN which makes sense given everything i've learned about NPT and AN today! many thanks to everyone who helped and especially mayf who worked out the minimum parts i needed. On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Smit, Theo wrote: > I'm guessing AN. > http://www.hydraflowusa.com/products/hoses.aspx > > A 6-AN fitting is about 3/8" bore. > > If you have to mail-order stuff and connect AN and pipe thread things > together then Summit Racing or Jegs are probably decent places to start > for either house-brand or Earl's or other hose vendors' stuff. If you > have to put aluminum pipe thread fittings into aluminum parts (such as > fuel pressure regulators, other AN fittings, or oil filter adapters) > then make sure you knock the sharp outer edge off the male pipe threads > with some (wet) 400 grit paper or something, and use anti-seize > compound, because otherwise it's pretty much 100% guaranteed to gall and > destroy both parts. > > Theo > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Steve Laifman > Sent: May 12, 2008 12:08 PM > To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com; Tiger's Den > Subject: Re: [Tigers] hose fittings and adaptors > > Owain, > > It looks like an AN fitting to me, but the entire plumbing is not Tiger, > nor British. Try Earl's at: > > http://www.anplumbing.com/ > > Steve > > ___ > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > > > > Owain Lloyd wrote: > > > > can anyone identify if this fitting is AN or NPT or tell me how to > > check? and if so is it 3/8 NPT, 6AN, or some other size? > > > > http://owainlloyd.no-ip.com:8080/photos/Tiger/Carb/slides/CIMG3055.JPG > > > > i need to buy some fittings to install a pressure gauge and regulator > > which are NPT. any recommendations on places to buy them from would > > also be appreciated. > > > > many thanks. From rande at thecia.net Mon May 12 16:47:52 2008 From: rande at thecia.net (rande) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 18:47:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] orchid green Message-ID: <4828c918.70df.0@thecia.net> Pertaining to the Mark 2 currently on eBay, it's not orchid green, it's a yellow of some undetermined origin (not Rootes). You can find a picture of the orchid green color in the very first edition of the Tiger-The Making of a Sports Car book or in the January 1996 issue of Thoroughbred & Classic Cars. From bob_diehl at earthlink.net Mon May 12 17:37:41 2008 From: bob_diehl at earthlink.net (Bob Diehl) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 16:37:41 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Orchid Green Message-ID: You can also check out code 109 on the front page of STOC's website: http://www.sunbeamtiger.co.uk/ bob_diehl No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1428 - Release Date: 5/12/2008 7:44 AM From gpointer at telusplanet.net Mon May 12 23:16:41 2008 From: gpointer at telusplanet.net (Pointers) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 00:16:41 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Mention on T.V.! Message-ID: <003701c8b4b8$87a30890$4001a8c0@TIGERV8> Nearly fell off the sofa during Barrett-Jackson when John Schneider pulled $450,000 for his (one of more than 300 used) General Lee Charger, while standing on the roof singing the Good 'ol Boys. What we need is Andy Rooney standing on the jump seat singing the praise, and fetch $150K or so for his, to get the Tiger values up where this community thinks they should be. Gary Pointer St. Albert Alberta From fastsage at cox.net Mon May 12 23:22:57 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 22:22:57 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem Message-ID: <482925B1.9080208@cox.net> Well, since I haven't been booted off our Tiger list here yet, here's another question. I took the primary fuel bowl off my Holley 4 barrel today, changed the jets, put everything back together, and now the car won't start. The fuel bowls filled right up again with 5 pounds of pressure on my fuel pressure gauge. However, no fuel comes out the squirters. Completely dry after repeated tries. I adjusted the accelerator pump spring a bit, but that shouldn't make any difference at start up, should it? I've done jet changes before with no problem, but this one has me stumped. Did I get dirt in there somewhere (I don't think so but who knows?)? Did I reassemble something incorrectly? Is there something I've done before but I've forgotten about? Ideas will be greatly appreciated! Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09810 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From atwittsend at verizon.net Tue May 13 00:34:37 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 23:34:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem References: <482925B1.9080208@cox.net> Message-ID: <004401c8b4c3$6aa46440$0202a8c0@student2> >>>Well, since I haven't been booted off our Tiger list here yet,<<< Steve, your the whole reason we are here. Only kidding. :-) There was a very similar problem going on at the Mopar site I frequent. I wonder if there are some defective gaskets out there. Pull the nozzes at the top and see if gas rises. I keep forgetting if there is a check ball in the Holleys, but if there is make sure that it doesn't get swallowed. Tom From shutchin at netjets.com Tue May 13 05:32:30 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 07:32:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem Message-ID: Did the little lever that operates the accelerator pump not wind up back in the right place?? Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From Carmods at aol.com Tue May 13 06:55:52 2008 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:55:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem Message-ID: <> Steve, The first thing I would do is check the gaskets to make sure they are the correct ones with matching holes and that they are installed in the proper direction. Don't use any sealer on the gaskets that can plug holes. John Logan **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From fastsage at cox.net Tue May 13 08:43:37 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 07:43:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4829A919.3030902@cox.net> Good idea, but no, it's in the right spot. Steve Scott Hutchinson wrote: > > Did the little lever that operates the accelerator pump not wind up > back in the right place?? > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09810 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From cmccann at lwpb.com Tue May 13 09:40:49 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:40:49 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem In-Reply-To: <4829A919.3030902@cox.net> References: <4829A919.3030902@cox.net> Message-ID: Steve, what model of holley is it? On the older holleys, like my old 3310 750 vaccumm (on a Chevrolet), I frequently had no-start problems occurring from foreign material clogging the needle and seat in the bowl. They have remedied most of this in the newer designs. But it didn't take much, just a freckly and it was stopped up for sure. Cullen From cmccann at lwpb.com Tue May 13 09:44:38 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:44:38 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem In-Reply-To: References: <4829A919.3030902@cox.net> Message-ID: Whoops...I mean "freckle"...don't ask me what a "freckly" is.... Steve, what model of holley is it? On the older holleys, like my old 3310 750 vaccumm (on a Chevrolet), I frequently had no-start problems occurring from foreign material clogging the needle and seat in the bowl. They have remedied most of this in the newer designs. But it didn't take much, just a freckly and it was stopped up for sure. Cullen From sunbeamjohn at msn.com Tue May 13 10:11:21 2008 From: sunbeamjohn at msn.com (sunbeam john) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:11:21 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic Message-ID: My Tiger has a 302 ci pushing 300 HP my problem is overheating in traffic. It runs at 180 to 190 on the highway but in traffic it overheats to as much as 250. The former owner had installed a Dimple radiator re-core (whatever that is), 6 blade puller fan, and a auxiliary pusher fan that is mounted in front of the radiator support frame and away from the radiator. Not sure what type of thermostat has been installed. I am think about changing the pusher fan to a Flexa-lite FLX-394 with 1500 cfm mounting it up against the radiator and changing the water pump to a high volume pump. Does anyone have any other suggestions and am I on the right track by making those changes. Does anyone know which high volume water pumps have the correct shaft length for a Tiger? Thank you, John Sunbeamjohn at msn.com From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue May 13 10:26:34 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:26:34 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF9E@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> First off, make sure that you have a thermostat in there, and (if you have stock gauges) that your "instrument voltage stabilizer" is working properly and putting out a steady 10 volts. It's the little steel can under the dash that has 12 volts from the ignition wired to one side and supplies the temp and fuel gauges from the other connections. The can must be connected to a good ground for it to work. A dead giveaway for the stabilizer not working is that the fuel gauge reads high when you fill up the tank, but the last half of the tank seems to disappear instantly. Your symptoms sound similar to what I was getting for gauge readings when I first got my Tiger, and in my case the problem was that the stabilizer was toast as well as not being connected properly. And there was no thermostat. And remember, if it's not puking, it's not overheating... Cheers, Theo From stubrennan at comcast.net Tue May 13 10:38:24 2008 From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:38:24 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EF9E@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <000001c8b517$c39a8c60$6601a8c0@Brennan> First of all, the panel voltage regulator should not be putting out a steady 10V. Its output should be switching between zero and battery voltage several times a second, averaging out to 10V over time. Measured with an analog meter, the pointer will be jumping all over the place. Depending on the type of digital meter, it might get it right or be totally confused. There are lots of little things you can do to control the airflow around the front of the car when stopped, horn opening blockoffs being one of the simplest. For more info on both of these see the articles on the Tigers United site. My article with more info on the fuel and temp gages is there, along with extensive discussions on cooling. Stu Brennan From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Tue May 13 10:55:54 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:55:54 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem In-Reply-To: <482925B1.9080208@cox.net> References: <482925B1.9080208@cox.net> Message-ID: <000e01c8b51a$34e4dbd0$74fcc04a@jerry> Steve, You said you had 5# of fuel press. but did the bowl actually fill? Check by removing one of the bottom mounting bolts of the bowl. If it is full of fuel and you didn't change gaskets I would guess you just have a air lock in the accelerator pump chamber, exercising the pump arm to it's full travel rapidly should get the gas flowing. If there isn't any gas in the bowl then the problem might be in the float needle seat area. Good luck PS are you going to Big Bear? If so hope to see you there. Jerry Christopherson -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Sage Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:23 AM To: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET Subject: [Tigers] Holley No Start Problem Well, since I haven't been booted off our Tiger list here yet, here's another question. I took the primary fuel bowl off my Holley 4 barrel today, changed the jets, put everything back together, and now the car won't start. The fuel bowls filled right up again with 5 pounds of pressure on my fuel pressure gauge. However, no fuel comes out the squirters. Completely dry after repeated tries. I adjusted the accelerator pump spring a bit, but that shouldn't make any difference at start up, should it? I've done jet changes before with no problem, but this one has me stumped. Did I get dirt in there somewhere (I don't think so but who knows?)? Did I reassemble something incorrectly? Is there something I've done before but I've forgotten about? Ideas will be greatly appreciated! Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09810 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From hallmotors at cox.net Tue May 13 11:03:03 2008 From: hallmotors at cox.net (Hall Motors) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:03:03 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080513170256.GDHH7964.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> To determine the actual temperature, and thus whether the guage or stabililer is a problem, you can use a handheld temperature guage and test the temp at the thermostat and radiator. These work with an infrared beam and you just aim them at whatever (even yourself). They cost less than $50 at Sears and really come in handy working on old cars. Brad Hall B382000609 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sunbeam john Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:11 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic My Tiger has a 302 ci pushing 300 HP my problem is overheating in traffic. It runs at 180 to 190 on the highway but in traffic it overheats to as much as 250. The former owner had installed a Dimple radiator re-core (whatever that is), 6 blade puller fan, and a auxiliary pusher fan that is mounted in front of the radiator support frame and away from the radiator. Not sure what type of thermostat has been installed. I am think about changing the pusher fan to a Flexa-lite FLX-394 with 1500 cfm mounting it up against the radiator and changing the water pump to a high volume pump. Does anyone have any other suggestions and am I on the right track by making those changes. Does anyone know which high volume water pumps have the correct shaft length for a Tiger? Thank you, John Sunbeamjohn at msn.com You are subscribed as hallmotors at cox.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From mrlau at charter.net Tue May 13 11:17:21 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:17:21 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080513171754.IARO4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Check to make sure that the timing is correct. A retarded spark will make an engine overheat more than advanced even though this seems against logic. Usually you can change where the pulley sits on a pump because it is a friction fit. -- Bill -- My Tiger has a 302 ci pushing 300 HP my problem is overheating in traffic. It runs at 180 to 190 on the highway but in traffic it overheats to as much as 250. The former owner had installed a Dimple radiator re-core (whatever that is), 6 blade puller fan, and a auxiliary pusher fan that is mounted in front of the radiator support frame and away from the radiator. Not sure what type of thermostat has been installed. I am think about changing the pusher fan to a Flexa-lite FLX-394 with 1500 cfm mounting it up against the radiator and changing the water pump to a high volume pump. Does anyone have any other suggestions and am I on the right track by making those changes. Does anyone know which high volume water pumps have the correct shaft length for a Tiger? Thank you, John Sunbeamjohn at msn.com From drmayf at mayfco.com Tue May 13 11:25:39 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:25:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: <20080513170256.GDHH7964.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> References: <20080513170256.GDHH7964.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <4829CF13.9000506@mayfco.com> I'll second that advice! I bought one from Harbor Freight last year on sale for about 40 bucks. It lives on the top shelf of my tool box, lol... I have measured everything, lol.. mayf Hall Motors wrote: >To determine the actual temperature, and thus whether the guage or >stabililer is a problem, you can use a handheld temperature guage and test >the temp at the thermostat and radiator. These work with an infrared beam >and you just aim them at whatever (even yourself). They cost less than $50 >at Sears and really come in handy working on old cars. > >Brad Hall >B382000609 > >-----Original Message----- >From: tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net >[mailto:tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >sunbeam john >Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:11 AM >To: tigers at autox.team.net >Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic > >My Tiger has a 302 ci pushing 300 HP my problem is overheating in traffic. >It >runs at 180 to 190 on the highway but in traffic it overheats to as much as >250. The former owner had installed a Dimple radiator re-core (whatever that >is), 6 blade puller fan, and a auxiliary pusher fan that is mounted in front >of the radiator support frame and away from the radiator. Not sure what type >of thermostat has been installed. I am think about changing the pusher fan >to >a Flexa-lite FLX-394 with 1500 cfm mounting it up against the radiator and >changing the water pump to a high volume pump. Does anyone have any other >suggestions and am I on the right track by making those changes. Does anyone >know which high volume water pumps have the correct shaft length for a >Tiger? > >Thank you, >John >Sunbeamjohn at msn.com >You are subscribed as hallmotors at cox.net > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Tue May 13 12:11:09 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:11:09 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: <20080513170256.GDHH7964.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> References: <20080513170256.GDHH7964.eastrmmtao104.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> Message-ID: <000b01c8b524$b88bd100$74fcc04a@jerry> John, Get the biggest, highest flow fan you can find. When I did mine five or six years ago I used a 16" Hayden Slim line high power ($150 Pep Boys) and it cools it down very well. I have forgotten the CFM of the fan, but get something that's at least 2000 CFM or more. I did have to cut out the crank brace to fit the fan, I mounted it with braces to the sides of the radiator mount and not the radiator itself. I also installed an auto temp control. Some fans are very loud, but this one I can't hear when it turns on so that's a plus. In this case bigger is better. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Hall Motors Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:03 PM To: 'sunbeam john'; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic To determine the actual temperature, and thus whether the guage or stabililer is a problem, you can use a handheld temperature guage and test the temp at the thermostat and radiator. These work with an infrared beam and you just aim them at whatever (even yourself). They cost less than $50 at Sears and really come in handy working on old cars. Brad Hall B382000609 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sunbeam john Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:11 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic My Tiger has a 302 ci pushing 300 HP my problem is overheating in traffic. It runs at 180 to 190 on the highway but in traffic it overheats to as much as 250. The former owner had installed a Dimple radiator re-core (whatever that is), 6 blade puller fan, and a auxiliary pusher fan that is mounted in front of the radiator support frame and away from the radiator. Not sure what type of thermostat has been installed. I am think about changing the pusher fan to a Flexa-lite FLX-394 with 1500 cfm mounting it up against the radiator and changing the water pump to a high volume pump. Does anyone have any other suggestions and am I on the right track by making those changes. Does anyone know which high volume water pumps have the correct shaft length for a Tiger? Thank you, John Sunbeamjohn at msn.com You are subscribed as hallmotors at cox.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue May 13 13:53:34 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 13:53:34 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFA0@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Hi all, Stu is right, I oversimplified the description of what the voltage regulator does. Most often, when the gauge voltage regulator fails and the gauges still appear to work, the gauges end up reading high because they're being fed a steady battery voltage, which could reach to 14 volts when the engine is running. So the easiest test for proper operation of the regulator is that its output is switching between 0 volts and the battery voltage... You might be able to see this with a meter or with a test-light (if it's a LED based test light, it responds much more quickly to the regulator switching than a regular bulb). In John's case he's asserted that he's using a mechanical gauge so the regulator is not the problem... But for anyone else that is suspicious of the gauge readings, it's a good place to start. Theo From cars at wt-inc.com Tue May 13 17:26:56 2008 From: cars at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 17:26:56 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFA0@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFA0@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <001b01c8b550$d6575d40$830617c0$@com> One thing I found was that on some manifolds the temperature sender sits above the flow of water. This was due to the various adapters used to install the stock sending unit (straight threads????) in the typical aftermarket manifold (tapered threads???). I noticed this when I was trying to debug my tiger. I unscrewed the sending unit and a small amount of air came out prior to the coolant. My process is now this. Fill up the coolant, run the car. Bleed the sending unit. I'm not sure if it helps but I know I have removed this as a variable. Other suggestions for you and all. Most of these were given to me by others on the list: I agree with the timing issues. Too much advance at idle causes bigger problems at speed. Same issue with carburetor adjustments Try the various block off suggestions Read the Tigers East article on cooling. You can find a link to their website on the tigersunited.com I went to the Derale fan as suggested in the article New radiator (you or the po have already done this) Make sure the gauge and the sending unit are calibrated to each other While there is no simple fix and rarely does one of these solve the problem, it can be solved. I have employed all of these and my car runs cool. Good luck, Lynn -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Smit, Theo Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 1:54 PM To: Stu Brennan; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic Hi all, Stu is right, I oversimplified the description of what the voltage regulator does. Most often, when the gauge voltage regulator fails and the gauges still appear to work, the gauges end up reading high because they're being fed a steady battery voltage, which could reach to 14 volts when the engine is running. So the easiest test for proper operation of the regulator is that its output is switching between 0 volts and the battery voltage... You might be able to see this with a meter or with a test-light (if it's a LED based test light, it responds much more quickly to the regulator switching than a regular bulb). In John's case he's asserted that he's using a mechanical gauge so the regulator is not the problem... But for anyone else that is suspicious of the gauge readings, it's a good place to start. Theo You are subscribed as cars at wt-inc.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From TIGEROOTES at aol.com Tue May 13 18:48:26 2008 From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 20:48:26 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 186 Message-ID: Steve Laifman wrote: > Just for curiosity, my Buddy Bar original Tiger lettered aluminum valve > covers have nearly half the fins on each side ground off to clear the > firewall. This car does not, and seems to have deeper fins. > Steve, Those are Cal-Custom valve covers (part # 40-1017) from Gardena, CA. Jim ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue May 13 18:56:03 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 17:56:03 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: <001b01c8b550$d6575d40$830617c0$@com> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFA0@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> <001b01c8b550$d6575d40$830617c0$@com> Message-ID: <482A38A3.1020604@SoCal.rr.com> Or, Cool It, Buddy! on the TigersUnited site. I will vouch for everything it says, because I did it, and wrote it. :-) http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Lynn Wall wrote: > <--- snip ---> > > Other suggestions for you and all. Most of these were given to me by others > on the list: > > I agree with the timing issues. Too much advance at idle causes bigger > problems at speed. > Same issue with carburetor adjustments > Try the various block off suggestions > Read the Tigers East article on cooling. You can find a link to their > website on the tigersunited.com > <--- snip ---> > Lynn From TIGEROOTES at aol.com Tue May 13 18:59:53 2008 From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 20:59:53 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 189 Message-ID: Bob Hokanson wrote: Who has added an inertia switch to their pump wiring to automatically shut > > off the fuel pump in the event of an accident? Hey Bob, The way your car accelerates, you will turn off your own fuel supply! Ha ha. Jim ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From TIGEROOTES at aol.com Tue May 13 19:26:11 2008 From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 21:26:11 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 192 Message-ID: Owain Lloyd writes: > as I've mentioned previously, I've been suffering some bad vibrations from > my clutch... Years ago, I had bizarre clutch oscillations / vibrations similar to what you describe. Upon tear-down inspection, the Mr. Gasket 'graded' cap screws I installed a year before that held my pressure plate to the flywheel had decided to fail and 'pop' their heads off! Obviously, it was a bad batch and it was very scary to see what was left holding the works together. Three screws, if my memory holds. I am very fortunate that I tore it apart to find the cause, as I still have my legs. Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club Seattle ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From 65tiger at comcast.net Tue May 13 20:35:56 2008 From: 65tiger at comcast.net (65tiger at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 02:35:56 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic Message-ID: <051420080235.3389.482A500C0001741200000D3D22068246930A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net> John, I ran the 302 with 300+ hp and had no problems cooling. Just follow the tips on Tigers United, use a good water pump. I did not need a auxiliary fan and removed it. It restricts air when not in use. Perhaps most important is that I enclosed the bottom of my shroud and that made all the difference. The regular water pump fan can now pull air through the radiator in traffic. No auxiliary fan needed. Enclosed is a picture of the enclosure. The dimples are to clear the steering rack. Others may write off line if they want a copy of the enclosure. Good luck, Curtis -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: sunbeam john > My Tiger has a 302 ci pushing 300 HP my problem is overheating in traffic. It > runs at 180 to 190 on the highway but in traffic it overheats to as much as > 250. The former owner had installed a Dimple radiator re-core (whatever that > is), 6 blade puller fan, and a auxiliary pusher fan that is mounted in front > of the radiator support frame and away from the radiator. Not sure what type > of thermostat has been installed. I am think about changing the pusher fan to > a Flexa-lite FLX-394 with 1500 cfm mounting it up against the radiator and > changing the water pump to a high volume pump. Does anyone have any other > suggestions and am I on the right track by making those changes. Does anyone > know which high volume water pumps have the correct shaft length for a Tiger? > > Thank you, > John > Sunbeamjohn at msn.com > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as 65tiger at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of May-27-05 014.jpg] From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Tue May 13 22:13:06 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 05:13:06 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: <051420080235.3389.482A500C0001741200000D3D22068246930A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net> References: <051420080235.3389.482A500C0001741200000D3D22068246930A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <39a841b0805132113j18d0d352gde4c3b23d1f30f8@mail.gmail.com> is an oil cooler worth using? i was thinking of adding one after seeing quite a few on tigers recently. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:35 AM, <65tiger at comcast.net> wrote: > John, > I ran the 302 with 300+ hp and had no problems cooling. Just follow the > tips on Tigers United, use a good water pump. I did not need a auxiliary fan > and removed it. It restricts air when not in use. Perhaps most important is > that I enclosed the bottom of my shroud and that made all the difference. > The regular water pump fan can now pull air through the radiator in traffic. > No auxiliary fan needed. Enclosed is a picture of the enclosure. The dimples > are to clear the steering rack. Others may write off line if they want a copy > of the enclosure. > Good luck, > Curtis > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: sunbeam john > > My Tiger has a 302 ci pushing 300 HP my problem is overheating in traffic. It > > runs at 180 to 190 on the highway but in traffic it overheats to as much as > > 250. The former owner had installed a Dimple radiator re-core (whatever that > > is), 6 blade puller fan, and a auxiliary pusher fan that is mounted in front > > of the radiator support frame and away from the radiator. Not sure what type > > of thermostat has been installed. I am think about changing the pusher fan to > > a Flexa-lite FLX-394 with 1500 cfm mounting it up against the radiator and > > changing the water pump to a high volume pump. Does anyone have any other > > suggestions and am I on the right track by making those changes. Does anyone > > know which high volume water pumps have the correct shaft length for a Tiger? > > > > Thank you, > > John > > Sunbeamjohn at msn.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > You are subscribed as 65tiger at comcast.net > > > > > Tigers at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of May-27-05 014.jpg] > > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue May 13 22:23:03 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 14:23:03 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating in traffic In-Reply-To: <39a841b0805132113j18d0d352gde4c3b23d1f30f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <051420080235.3389.482A500C0001741200000D3D22068246930A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net> <39a841b0805132113j18d0d352gde4c3b23d1f30f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Everyone should check out the latest tiger vids on You-tube.. a certain Owain is having some fun in the hills of the Uk... -- Regards Michael King From CoolVT at aol.com Wed May 14 19:34:38 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:34:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 2 Tigers for sale Message-ID: The following site is interersting to check every now and then. They quite often have cars that have been stored for years and at a good price. There are currently 2 Tiger "rust buckets" for sale here at $8,995 each. They look like real projects. Wow, is this what things are worth now? Seriously, normally this place sells things at a pretty reasonable price. If they think they can get $9,000 for something like this, they must think Tigers are something special. I think I remember them selling 2 others that needed work in the past year for the low $20's. And yes, Steve L. they almost always have XK 120's. Mark _http://www.gullwingmotorcars.com/searchresults.html_ (http://www.gullwingmotorcars.com/searchresults.html) ? **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From laurin212 at yahoo.com Wed May 14 19:39:44 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 21:39:44 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 2 Tigers for sale References: Message-ID: <002701c8b62c$8da6e340$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> gullwing is right near me, right outside manhattan in queens, they do get interesting stuff all the time, i watch their site often to see what pops up havent visited them so cant vouch for how nice or honest the folks are, but havent heard anything bad peter ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: [Tigers] 2 Tigers for sale > The following site is interersting to check every now and then. They > quite > often have cars that have been stored for years and at a good price. > There > are currently 2 Tiger "rust buckets" for sale here at $8,995 each. They > look > like real projects. Wow, is this what things are worth now? Seriously, > normally this place sells things at a pretty reasonable price. If they > think they > can get $9,000 for something like this, they must think Tigers are > something > special. > > I think I remember them selling 2 others that needed work in the past > year > for the low $20's. > And yes, Steve L. they almost always have XK 120's. > Mark > > _http://www.gullwingmotorcars.com/searchresults.html_ > (http://www.gullwingmotorcars.com/searchresults.html) ? > > > > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on > family > favorites at AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as laurin212 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From fastsage at cox.net Thu May 15 00:18:25 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 23:18:25 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Starting Problem Solved! Message-ID: <482BD5B1.5000808@cox.net> Thanks to all the great suggestions from our list, I have solved the no start problem with my Holley carb, plus made a discovery that has sped up the Tiger noticeably. Dr. Mayf especially nailed the issue. As he suggested (and I think someone else may have mentioned to look at too) when I took the carb apart, the accelerator pump vacuum port at the bottom of the metering block was completely plugged. When I had the carb apart previously I had used a non-Holley replacement gasket. First off, the hole in the gasket and the port didn't completely line up. Plus, I obviously over tightened the bolts when I re-assembled the carb the last time, which forced the gasket material into the port, eventually completely blocking it. I completely cleaned everything out of the metering block and the float bowl and reassembled it, this time with a genuine Holley gasket which lined up perfectly. Another thing I noticed messing about was that the aluminum heat shield I had installed under the carb was not allowing the butterflies to open fully. I'm going to modify it before the trip to Tigers United but left it off for now. Re-assembled, the Tiger started right up, idles perfectly, isn't stalling, and with the butterflies opening up all the way now, the car is much faster and revs higher . Obviously what I thought was vapor lock was instead the accelerator pump not functioning . I'm still thinking of a better fuel pump but for now, everything is working great. Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178) Database version: 5.09820 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ From sunbeamjohn at msn.com Thu May 15 09:48:12 2008 From: sunbeamjohn at msn.com (sunbeam john) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 08:48:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating In Traffic Message-ID: Found my overheating problem. The previous owner install a fan in front of the radiator and instead of it pushing air through the radiator it was pulling air away from the radiator I believe making the change to a pusher fan should solve my problem. Thanks to all for all the sugestions and the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King will be a big help. John sunbeamjohn at msn.com From bomber44 at comcast.net Thu May 15 09:57:21 2008 From: bomber44 at comcast.net (Rob Guerra) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 08:57:21 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Rumors....15" LAT Wheels Message-ID: <002601c8b6a4$5c418a30$14c49e90$@net> It's true www.tigerengineering.net/latwheel.html Rob From atwittsend at verizon.net Thu May 15 09:59:02 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 08:59:02 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] 2 Tigers for sale References: Message-ID: <002c01c8b6a4$98bec4f0$0202a8c0@student2> Humm..., at two for the price of one and throw in a 55 gallon drum of POR-15 it still seems like too much. I remember looking at two "barn" Alpines over in Oxnard years ago. Even a 'tightwad, I'm willing to tackle anything' person like myself decided to walk from them. These cars remind me of those cars. Just TOO much rust - Everywhere. But, if they sell it will make me feel like my cheapo Tiger was a great, rather than average deal. Tom From cmccann at lwpb.com Thu May 15 10:12:14 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:12:14 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] 2 Tigers for sale In-Reply-To: <002c01c8b6a4$98bec4f0$0202a8c0@student2> References: <002c01c8b6a4$98bec4f0$0202a8c0@student2> Message-ID: I agree that there is a lot of rust on those cars, but....I am a firm believer that anything can be fixed, and be as good as new if done right. it just might cost a fortune to do it. I think these cars could be for someone who wants a Tiger, but doesn't have the funding to purchase a perfect, rust free virgin, but has mechanical skills and plenty of time. ( that's usually me). The only thing I did notice that really caught my eye, was the orange car is an automatic, according to the description. I know there were a few rare alpine automatics, and if I am correct the ken miles prototype tiger was an auto....would / could this automatic be factory? If so, rare options like that increase collectability enough to make up for the poor condition. If the Hollywood sports car was not located, and we found out it was one of those on this website, I would think it would be desirable anyway. ???????? Keep em on the road.....or...save them if you can...pick your clichi. my two cents, again. Cullen B382001452 Subject: Re: [Tigers] 2 Tigers for sale Humm..., at two for the price of one and throw in a 55 gallon drum of POR-15 it still seems like too much. I remember looking at two "barn" Alpines over in Oxnard years ago. Even a 'tightwad, I'm willing to tackle anything' person like myself decided to walk from them. These cars remind me of those cars. Just TOO much rust - Everywhere. But, if they sell it will make me feel like my cheapo Tiger was a great, rather than average deal. Tom From CoolVT at aol.com Thu May 15 12:25:04 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:25:04 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 2 Tigers for Sale Message-ID: The two Tigers for sale at Gullwing Motors: The green tiger vin # B382002470LRXFE The red tiger vin # B9470979LRXFE According to the BON #979 was last in Arizona. They didn't answer my inquiry about the listed auto transmission. Mark **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Thu May 15 13:52:14 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:52:14 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating In Traffic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c8b6c5$2c21bc00$74fcc04a@jerry> Tom, I think you can just reverse the leads and the fan will run the other way, some of the fans are designed to run either way. Jerry Christopherson -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sunbeam john Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:48 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating In Traffic Found my overheating problem. The previous owner install a fan in front of the radiator and instead of it pushing air through the radiator it was pulling air away from the radiator I believe making the change to a pusher fan should solve my problem. Thanks to all for all the sugestions and the article by Tiger Tom and Chuck King will be a big help. John sunbeamjohn at msn.com You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu May 15 13:59:29 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 13:59:29 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating In Traffic Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFB5@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> That will work as a first approximation. However, for optimum airflow the fan should have the convex sides of the blades facing into the direction of flow (i.e, forward). Some fans have reversible blades, and other don't. If the blades aren't reversible AND the fan was originally designed as a puller then you might be better off just leaving it out of the car and not having the obstruction. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Sent: May 15, 2008 1:52 PM To: 'sunbeam john'; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Over Heating In Traffic Tom, I think you can just reverse the leads and the fan will run the other way, some of the fans are designed to run either way. Jerry Christopherson From TIGEROOTES at aol.com Thu May 15 18:29:38 2008 From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:29:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels Message-ID: Rob, I have a set of (5-bolt) 15" Hands "LAT" wheels I had a shop fill and drill to the Sunbeam bolt pattern. Like minds! Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club Seattle ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From Sjhcobra1 at cs.com Thu May 15 18:54:06 2008 From: Sjhcobra1 at cs.com (Sjhcobra1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:54:06 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Over Heating In Traffic Message-ID: What about the blade pitch? From laurin212 at yahoo.com Thu May 15 22:30:12 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 00:30:12 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels References: Message-ID: <001001c8b70d$88025050$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> any pics of those on a tiger? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] 15" wheels > Rob, > I have a set of (5-bolt) 15" Hands "LAT" wheels I had a shop fill > and > drill to the Sunbeam bolt pattern. Like minds! > > Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club Seattle > > > ************** > Wondering what's for > Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. > > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as laurin212 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From laurin212 at yahoo.com Thu May 15 22:30:59 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 00:30:59 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels References: Message-ID: <001401c8b70d$a43f2a40$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> any pics of those 15" wheels on a tiger? ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] 15" wheels > Rob, > I have a set of (5-bolt) 15" Hands "LAT" wheels I had a shop fill > and > drill to the Sunbeam bolt pattern. Like minds! > > Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club Seattle From TIGEROOTES at aol.com Fri May 16 09:14:34 2008 From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:14:34 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels Message-ID: Laurin, Mine are still in the fab shop awaiting valve stems. It seems the design has changed over the past 46 years and modern ones won't work. We may have to fill and drill again, to acccommodate modern ones. Then, they go to the polishing shop. Jim ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri May 16 11:36:04 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:36:04 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482DC604.5010906@SoCal.rr.com> Jim and Peter, Speaking of "nice wheels", I have long admired Jerry VanderPool's Panasport 16" wheels. He has moved from San Simeon, CA (rosebud"), a while ago. I am not sure if Panasport still makes the bolt pattern and offset he used. Might be at Sure looks nice. http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/vanderpool_j/default.asp Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com TIGEROOTES at aol.com wrote: > Laurin, > Mine are still in the fab shop awaiting valve stems. It seems the > design has changed over the past 46 years and modern ones won't work. We may > have to fill and drill again, to acccommodate modern ones. Then, they go to the > polishing shop. > Jim From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri May 16 12:28:55 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:28:55 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels In-Reply-To: <482DC604.5010906@SoCal.rr.com> References: <482DC604.5010906@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0805161128r8ce4fffx3fd98a3801225206@mail.gmail.com> those are the wheels i have although, i'd probably run with 15's now. the tires are a little too low profile with 16s. On 5/16/08, Steve Laifman wrote: > Jim and Peter, > > Speaking of "nice wheels", I have long admired Jerry VanderPool's > Panasport 16" wheels. He has moved from San Simeon, CA (rosebud"), a > while ago. I am not sure if Panasport still makes the bolt pattern and > offset he used. > > Might be at > > Sure looks nice. > > http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/vanderpool_j/default.asp > > Steve > > ___ > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > > > > TIGEROOTES at aol.com wrote: > > Laurin, > > Mine are still in the fab shop awaiting valve stems. It seems the > > design has changed over the past 46 years and modern ones won't work. We may > > have to fill and drill again, to acccommodate modern ones. Then, they go to the > > polishing shop. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From gswaybright at yahoo.com Fri May 16 12:44:19 2008 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels In-Reply-To: <39a841b0805161128r8ce4fffx3fd98a3801225206@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <612770.98182.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I also have the 16" Panasports on my Tiger and Miata. They just look great! If they had a 17", I'd probably run them on my WRX. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3031557 Stephen Waybright --- On Fri, 5/16/08, Owain Lloyd wrote: > From: Owain Lloyd >> those are the wheels i have although, i'd probably run > with 15's now. > the tires are a little too low profile with 16s. > > On 5/16/08, Steve Laifman > wrote: > > Jim and Peter, > > > > Speaking of "nice wheels", I have long > admired Jerry VanderPool's > > Panasport 16" wheels. He has moved from San > Simeon, CA (rosebud"), a > > while ago. I am not sure if Panasport still makes the > bolt pattern and > > offset he used. > > > > Might be at > > > > Sure looks nice. > > > > > http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/vanderpool_j/default.asp > > > > Steve From todbrown at roadrunner.com Fri May 16 13:08:15 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 15:08:15 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 2 Tigers For Sale Message-ID: <482DDB9F.2030107@roadrunner.com> Hmm! Why is B382002470LRXFE listed as a '65? It should be at least a '66. Tod B382002384LRXFE From cars at wt-inc.com Fri May 16 16:04:24 2008 From: cars at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:04:24 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels In-Reply-To: <482DC604.5010906@SoCal.rr.com> References: <482DC604.5010906@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <003401c8b7a0$cda1ea10$68e5be30$@com> Call Dale ak????????????????zuski. 909-799-2099. He is the distributor for them. I purchased mine from him. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Laifman Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 11:36 AM To: TIGEROOTES at aol.com; Peter Laurinaitis; Tiger's Den Subject: Re: [Tigers] 15" wheels Jim and Peter, Speaking of "nice wheels", I have long admired Jerry VanderPool's Panasport 16" wheels. He has moved from San Simeon, CA (rosebud"), a while ago. I am not sure if Panasport still makes the bolt pattern and offset he used. Might be at Sure looks nice. http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/vanderpool_j/default.asp Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com TIGEROOTES at aol.com wrote: > Laurin, > Mine are still in the fab shop awaiting valve stems. It seems the > design has changed over the past 46 years and modern ones won't work. We may > have to fill and drill again, to acccommodate modern ones. Then, they go to the > polishing shop. > Jim You are subscribed as cars at wt-inc.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sunbeamjohn at msn.com Fri May 16 17:47:47 2008 From: sunbeamjohn at msn.com (sunbeam john) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Gas Smell Message-ID: My M1 has a gas smell when you open the trunk. I could not find any leaks and I secure all the connections but still have the smell. Any suggestions? thanks, John sunbeamjohn at msn.com From stubrennan at comcast.net Fri May 16 17:56:08 2008 From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:56:08 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Gas Smell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c8b7b0$6a295580$6601a8c0@Brennan> Check the crossover hose between the tops of the two tanks. A bunch of years back I had a mysterious gas smell too. I discovered that this hose had cracked only after filling the tanks almost all the way up, and it flooded the trunk at the first sharp corner, doing irreparable harm to the picnic lunch also occupying the trunk... Stu From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Fri May 16 18:30:50 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:30:50 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Gas Smell Message-ID: Don't look for the source of the leak with a match. In a message dated 5/16/2008 4:50:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sunbeamjohn at msn.com writes: My M1 has a gas smell when you open the trunk. I could not find any leaks and I secure all the connections but still have the smell. Any suggestions? thanks, John sunbeamjohn at msn.com You are subscribed as aaaglasss at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Fri May 16 18:33:26 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:33:26 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Fwd: FW: Yes, there is such a thing as "Too Much Money"... Message-ID: ____________________________________ From: LFestich To: AAAGLASSS Sent: 5/16/2008 4:56:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time Subj: Fwd: FW: Yes, there is such a thing as "Too Much Money"... ____________________________________ From: lraffa at mygrantglass.com To: LFestich at aol.com Sent: 5/16/2008 2:40:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time Subj: FW: Yes, there is such a thing as "Too Much Money"... -----Original Message----- From: Keri bustillos Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 3:49 PM To: Laura Raffa; 'Sarah Singleton'; 'Tiffany Bustos'; 'evilempire at q.com' Subject: Yes, there is such a thing as "Too Much Money"... Subject: Your Gas Dollars Hard at Work THE CAR COSTS $4.8 MILLION AND IF YOU WANT TO TOUCH IT, YOU HAVE TO PAY $1000. IT BELONGS TO PRINCE ALWALEED FROM SAUDI ARABIA Diamond Covered Mercedes off Prince Waleed: o?= Remember this when gasoline hits $5.00 a gallon. You paid for this one. ____________________________________ This message is intended for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which is governed by applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this information is Strictly Prohibited. If you have received this message by error, please notify the sender immediately to arrange for return or destruction of these documents. ____________________________________ Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? _Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food_ (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) . **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From laurin212 at yahoo.com Fri May 16 21:38:17 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 23:38:17 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Factory Seats References: <100847.24347.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com><480E3720.4030204@SoCal.rr.com> <480E4342.2020206@cox.net> <009101c8a4ee$60be8710$6501a8c0@NicksDellPC> Message-ID: <001801c8b7cf$7219b5e0$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> i got 1/4" pins, and to my surprise, they are too wide in diameter for my seats???? (dont fit through the seat frame holes) what did i get wrong? i have a mark 1. peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scattt" To: "Steve Sage" ; "Steve Laifman" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Factory Seats > The quick release seat pins are .25" diameter with a grip length of > 1.25". > I use a L shaped pin and had them out this week-end for the installation > of > a new rag-top. > Nick From laurin212 at yahoo.com Fri May 16 22:11:34 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 00:11:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels References: <482DC604.5010906@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <006d01c8b7d4$18761240$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> i personally am a die-hard fan of 13" wheels...the orginal look of a decent slab of rubber on the rim. but i would love to see the LAT rims in a bigger rim size just to see what they look like. i do sympathize with the lack of good 13" rubber available in the market. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Laifman" To: ; "Peter Laurinaitis" ; "Tiger's Den" Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] 15" wheels > Jim and Peter, > > Speaking of "nice wheels", I have long admired Jerry VanderPool's > Panasport 16" wheels. He has moved from San Simeon, CA (rosebud"), a > while ago. I am not sure if Panasport still makes the bolt pattern and > offset he used. From tsmit at shaw.ca Fri May 16 22:18:07 2008 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 22:18:07 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Gas Smell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482E5C7F.50701@shaw.ca> I found that when the lift-the-dot studs were installed, whoever drilled the holes got the crossover hose with one of them. As Stu says, pull the hose and replace it... even if it's not the problem now, you'll at least postpone any issues with it for a couple of decades. Theo From laurin212 at yahoo.com Fri May 16 22:15:48 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 00:15:48 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels References: <612770.98182.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007b01c8b7d4$b24c1720$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> wow stephen, that is one SWEET tiger. peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Waybright" To: "Steve Laifman" ; Cc: ; "Tiger's Den" Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] 15" wheels >I also have the 16" Panasports on my Tiger and Miata. They just look great! >If they had a 17", I'd probably run them on my WRX. > > http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3031557 > > Stephen Waybright > > > --- On Fri, 5/16/08, Owain Lloyd wrote: > >> From: Owain Lloyd >>> those are the wheels i have although, i'd probably run >> with 15's now. >> the tires are a little too low profile with 16s. >> >> On 5/16/08, Steve Laifman >> wrote: >> > Jim and Peter, >> > >> > Speaking of "nice wheels", I have long >> admired Jerry VanderPool's >> > Panasport 16" wheels. He has moved from San >> Simeon, CA (rosebud"), a >> > while ago. I am not sure if Panasport still makes the >> bolt pattern and >> > offset he used. >> > >> > Might be at >> > >> > Sure looks nice. >> > >> > >> http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/vanderpool_j/default.asp >> > >> > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as laurin212 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From walmenke at bigpond.net.au Fri May 16 19:59:52 2008 From: walmenke at bigpond.net.au (Wally Menke) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 11:59:52 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Gas Smell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000501c8b7c1$b2723760$1756a620$@net.au> I've also heard that if extra long screws were used to secure the soft top from the inside of the car they will pierce the cross over tube. Wally Menke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+walmenke=bigpond.net.au at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+walmenke=bigpond.net.au at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sunbeam john Sent: Saturday, 17 May 2008 9:48 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Gas Smell My M1 has a gas smell when you open the trunk. I could not find any leaks and I secure all the connections but still have the smell. Any suggestions? thanks, John sunbeamjohn at msn.com You are subscribed as walmenke at bigpond.net.au Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From gswaybright at yahoo.com Sat May 17 07:21:35 2008 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 06:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] 15" wheels In-Reply-To: <007b01c8b7d4$b24c1720$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> Message-ID: <247895.38595.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks... it attests to the great work that Dale A does... I don't think I'd quite get the $115k that the Tiger Dale did for Scott Lampert got at auction, but I like my resto-mod Tiger much better than that one. Now if one of you guys is ready to part with $115k, I could use the cash to feed my campaign in Spec Miata racing. ;) Stephen --- On Sat, 5/17/08, Peter Laurinaitis wrote: > From: Peter Laurinaitis > Subject: Re: [Tigers] 15" wheels > To: gswaybright at yahoo.com, "Steve Laifman" , owain.lloyd at gmail.com > Cc: TIGEROOTES at aol.com, "Tiger's Den" > Date: Saturday, May 17, 2008, 12:15 AM > wow stephen, that is one SWEET tiger. > > peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Waybright" > > To: "Steve Laifman" > ; > > Cc: ; "Tiger's Den" > > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:44 PM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] 15" wheels > > > >I also have the 16" Panasports on my Tiger and > Miata. They just look great! > >If they had a 17", I'd probably run them on my > WRX. > > > > http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3031557 > > > > Stephen Waybright > > > > > > --- On Fri, 5/16/08, Owain Lloyd > wrote: > > > >> From: Owain Lloyd > >>> those are the wheels i have although, i'd > probably run > >> with 15's now. > >> the tires are a little too low profile with 16s. > >> > >> On 5/16/08, Steve Laifman > > >> wrote: > >> > Jim and Peter, > >> > > >> > Speaking of "nice wheels", I have > long > >> admired Jerry VanderPool's > >> > Panasport 16" wheels. He has moved from > San > >> Simeon, CA (rosebud"), a > >> > while ago. I am not sure if Panasport still > makes the > >> bolt pattern and > >> > offset he used. > >> > > >> > Might be at > >> > > >> > Sure looks nice. > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/vanderpool_j/default.asp > >> > > >> > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > You are subscribed as laurin212 at yahoo.com > > > > Tigers at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > > > http://www.team.net/archive From kneedrag at core.com Sat May 17 08:34:42 2008 From: kneedrag at core.com (Mark Rense) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:34:42 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Gas Smell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, One of my cars had the same issue, a smell of gas in the boot. The replacement of all the rubber bits and hoses did not appease the God Of Fumes, so I pulled the tanks and discovered that the sealing liner had deteriorated to the point where fuel was seeping out of the seams in a couple of spots. I exchanged my tanks for some fresh ones through Doug Jennings, and, OMG, I can now safely place clothing and such in the boot without them reeking of Shell Ultra. Also, pay attention to the neck filler rubber, as they seem to crack. Fume-freely yours, Bugz B382000991 B382001465 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:47 -0700 From: sunbeam john Subject: [Tigers] Gas Smell To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My M1 has a gas smell when you open the trunk. I could not find any leaks and I secure all the connections but still have the smell. Any suggestions? thanks, John sunbeamjohn at msn.com From rande at thecia.net Sat May 17 14:13:37 2008 From: rande at thecia.net (rande) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:13:37 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] united CA Message-ID: <482f3c71.4926.0@thecia.net> paging Darrell Mountjoy. I need some B Bear United info From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net Sat May 17 18:12:53 2008 From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:12:53 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] united CA References: <482f3c71.4926.0@thecia.net> Message-ID: <001401c8b87b$eab50840$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Hi Rande, I forwarded your inquiry to Darrell. You should be hearing from him shortly, In the meantime, Darrell has posted quite a bit of information about the TU next month at Big Bear on the "Events" page at the CAT website. There's quite a bit of information in the "Bulletins" he has linked there. http://www.catmbr.org/Events1.htm If you have any questions I can help you with, please feel free to contact me directly. good luck, Buck Trippel, CAT President ----- Original Message ----- From: "rande" To: Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 1:13 PM Subject: [Tigers] united CA > paging Darrell Mountjoy. I need some B Bear United info > _______________________________________________ From clydemclaughlin at verizon.net Sun May 18 06:27:43 2008 From: clydemclaughlin at verizon.net (Clyde McLaughlin) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 08:27:43 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] wheels/tires Message-ID: <000c01c8b8e2$929272d0$6700a8c0@chesapeake4> I have original Minilites, 13" on my Tiger, but when they are removed and reinstalled it is always PAIN to get them to run true, I have to keep loosening/adjusting tightening to get them centered -- I guess none of these aftermarket wheels were hub centric, any body else with this issue....wheels are perfectly straight and have toyo RA-1 tires, probably one of the last good 13" tires left, not long on wear, but STICK, Clyde From laurin212 at yahoo.com Sun May 18 07:45:27 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 09:45:27 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] frozen rear brake Message-ID: <038301c8b8ed$6ea02c90$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> hey guys...i am trying to unfreeze a frozen right rear brake today. heading upstate now to the car. what is the suggestions for sequence of steps i should be taking from easy to complete disassembly to try to get it fixed. i recall a prior thread on this but cant find it. pls reply all so the messages to this also go to my blackberry so i can see remotely, leaving the house now. thanks so much!!!!! peter From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Sun May 18 09:06:58 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 11:06:58 EDT Subject: [Tigers] frozen rear brake Message-ID: On mine the l wheel was locked by the e brake not releasing. I got it loose by backing off the adjuster bolt. I had to use heat and PB Blaster. The adjuster is a 1/4 bolt and needs some good leverage to turn when locked. Standard thread not L-handed. HTH In a message dated 5/18/2008 7:32:15 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, laurin212 at yahoo.com writes: hey guys...i am trying to unfreeze a frozen right rear brake today. heading upstate now to the car. what is the suggestions for sequence of steps i should be taking from easy to complete disassembly to try to get it fixed. i recall a prior thread on this but cant find it. pls reply all so the messages to this also go to my blackberry so i can see remotely, leaving the house now. thanks so much!!!!! peter You are subscribed as aaaglasss at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive _B382002560_ (http://alanautoglass.com/) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Sun May 18 17:23:16 2008 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 00:23:16 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeamers near Orlando Message-ID: HI all, I am hopefully on a short business trip to Orlando early next month 3-6 June. Any sunbeam owners close by? The hotel is on International Drive. regards -- Jeff Howarth From laurin212 at yahoo.com Sun May 18 21:26:04 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 23:26:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] frozen rear brake References: <000001c8b905$638d7890$22951840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <003301c8b960$1246adc0$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> thanks ron, stephen and AAAGLASSS at aol, great responses. i couldnt get that silly little adjusted to turn no matter how much PB Blaster and vise grips i used...but the trusty hammer knocks to the drum worked like magic!! peter ----- Original Message ----- From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Peter Laurinaitis'" ; Cc: "'Peter (TBG) Laurinaitis'" Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [Tigers] frozen rear brake Peter 1st refer to the rear brake diagram in the Shop Manual. http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/wsmk9.asp Turn the adjuster out all the way to allow the shoes to pull in away from the drum. See if brake drum will come off. Lightly tap on the hand brake lever at the brake cylinder; the whole brake cylinder should move a little. You might also want to open the bleeder screw briefly at the same time to let the cylinder collapse some. Have a paper towel handy or catch can for the fluid that comes out, then tighten the bleeder. See if brake drum will come off. Hit the brake drum with a hammer if needed to get the brake shoes to move in and release the drum. Pull drum off If the drum is still frozen; try turning the axle back and forward to try and break it loose. If the car is drivable; put the tire on and move the whole car back and forward to break it loose or push it back and forward. Remove all brake parts, pay close attention to the parts holding the brake cylinder and the way they are assembled. Clean all parts and back plate, renew any worn parts. Assemble brakes and check for smooth function; lube where needed. Good luck Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.biz at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.biz at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Peter Laurinaitis Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 9:45 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Cc: Peter (TBG) Laurinaitis Subject: [Tigers] frozen rear brake hey guys...i am trying to unfreeze a frozen right rear brake today. heading upstate now to the car. what is the suggestions for sequence of steps i should be taking from easy to complete disassembly to try to get it fixed. i recall a prior thread on this but cant find it. pls reply all so the messages to this also go to my blackberry so i can see remotely, leaving the house now. thanks so much!!!!! peter You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.biz Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1448 - Release Date: 5/16/2008 7:42 PM From laurin212 at yahoo.com Sun May 18 21:37:34 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 23:37:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] tranny oil change Message-ID: <006701c8b961$ad473370$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> question guys - changed the tranny oil for the first time today (havent had the tiger that long) with Lucas Heavy Duty 80/90 Gear Oil ... question i had was...the manual says 1.8 liters is the capacity, but seems like it took more than 3 liters to fill the tranny up to the fill hole to the point it started to weep out (car was flat, not on a jack). is the proper fill level to fill it to the point it starts to weep out of the fill hole? what is the risk if overfilled? thks peter From laurin212 at yahoo.com Sun May 18 22:19:37 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 00:19:37 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] pimp my tiger... Message-ID: <000701c8b967$8ce13a80$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> ebay item 290231600578 From atwittsend at verizon.net Mon May 19 00:17:24 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 23:17:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Falling value of stock Sunbeam wheels Message-ID: <001801c8b978$019d76d0$0202a8c0@student2> Apparently the bottom has dropped out of the stock Sunbeam wheel market. Why just a month or so ago this would have been valued at $1,250!!! :-) Tom http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=1902217548 14&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009 From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Mon May 19 07:37:41 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 09:37:41 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Very interesting old Ford Model A! Faster than a Tiger?? Message-ID: This was in TEAE. Very interesting _http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=389897_ (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=389897) _B382002560_ (http://alanautoglass.com/) **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) From drmayf at mayfco.com Mon May 19 08:10:26 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 07:10:26 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Very interesting old Ford Model A! Faster than a Tiger?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48318A52.5090508@mayfco.com> That guy went a long way to hide the over head cam engine. And it is fuel injected as well. Made to look like 4 banger of the era. mayf AAAGLASSS at aol.com wrote: >This was in TEAE. Very interesting > > >_http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=389897_ >(http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=389897) > > >_B382002560_ (http://alanautoglass.com/) > > > >**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family >favorites at AOL Food. >(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Mon May 19 10:11:22 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 09:11:22 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] tranny oil change In-Reply-To: <006701c8b961$ad473370$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> References: <006701c8b961$ad473370$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> Message-ID: <4831A6AA.6070505@SoCal.rr.com> Peter, That is what I did, and used synthetic Mobil 1 *_gear_* lube (90 wt). The shifting was a lot easier as soon as the slippery synthetic replaced the dinosaur lube. ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Peter Laurinaitis wrote: > question guys - changed the tranny oil for the first time today (havent had > the tiger that long) with Lucas Heavy Duty 80/90 Gear Oil ... question i had > was...the manual says 1.8 liters is the capacity, but seems like it took more > than 3 liters to fill the tranny up to the fill hole to the point it started > to weep out (car was flat, not on a jack). is the proper fill level to fill > it to the point it starts to weep out of the fill hole? what is the risk if > overfilled? > > thks > peter From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Mon May 19 13:40:51 2008 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:40:51 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] To those in the DC area In-Reply-To: <4831A6AA.6070505@SoCal.rr.com> References: <006701c8b961$ad473370$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> <4831A6AA.6070505@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B206DBA3@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Howdy all! Some friends and I in the DC area have been toying with the idea of putting together a loose confederation (let's NOT use the word "club") of LBC owners to get together from time to time. Sort of a "cars and coffee" type idea, followed perhaps by a drive in the area. Most of us are in the Bethesda-Chevy Chase-NW DC area, but that of course isn't essential. If you've got a Healey and you're in the DC area, and wouldn't mind gathering with other LBC people on an informal basis -- like a Saturday morning in a supermarket or starbucks parking lot -- drop me an email! ************* Bill S. 2005 Lotus Elise 1968 Triumph TR-250 1968 MGC Tourer 1966 Austin Healey 3000 Mk III 1965 Sunbeam Tiger 1959 Austin Healey 3000 Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows... NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From cars at wt-inc.com Mon May 19 13:53:16 2008 From: cars at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 13:53:16 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Filling up steering rack while in car. Message-ID: <001c01c8b9e9$fad794d0$f086be70$@com> All, Anyone do this? Can it be done without tipping the car on it's side? I'm at work without the owners manual. How much fluid should it take? Till it leaks out? Specific measurement? What weight? Thanks in advance Lynn From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Mon May 19 14:40:37 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 13:40:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Filling up steering rack while in car. In-Reply-To: <001c01c8b9e9$fad794d0$f086be70$@com> References: <001c01c8b9e9$fad794d0$f086be70$@com> Message-ID: <4831E5C5.5050106@SoCal.rr.com> Lynn, See my previous post. Yes, _almost_ anyone can do this, but a lift makes it a lot easier. DO NOT TIP THE CAR ON IT'S SIDE ;-) Opening the side plug makes it easier do drain. See TIGERSUNITED.com for the full workshop manual. http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/wsm1.asp Gearbox capacity: 3.25 pints (4 U.S. pints ; 1.8 litres) 2 qts, in "General Data" General Data, Capacities. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Lynn Wall wrote: > All, > > > > Anyone do this? Can it be done without tipping the car on it's side? > > I'm at work without the owners manual. > > How much fluid should it take? Till it leaks out? Specific measurement? > > What weight? > > Thanks in advance > > Lynn From mmichels at socal.rr.com Mon May 19 20:35:26 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 19:35:26 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] tranny oil change References: <006701c8b961$ad473370$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> Message-ID: <000601c8ba22$29afa350$6401a8c0@delldimension> Three liters seems like too much. The rated capacity should work out to about 2 quarts by American measure and that's convenient since that's how gear oil is packaged. One time I filled it until it flowed out the filler hole. But I found that it was blowing oil out the vent hole on the top cover, so concluded I should stick with the recommended amount. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Laurinaitis" To: Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:37 PM Subject: [Tigers] tranny oil change > question guys - changed the tranny oil for the first time today (havent > had > the tiger that long) with Lucas Heavy Duty 80/90 Gear Oil ... question i > had > was...the manual says 1.8 liters is the capacity, but seems like it took > more > than 3 liters to fill the tranny up to the fill hole to the point it > started > to weep out (car was flat, not on a jack). is the proper fill level to > fill > it to the point it starts to weep out of the fill hole? what is the risk > if > overfilled? > > thks > peter > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Tue May 20 06:33:27 2008 From: fordlandia at sbcglobal.net (Bill Waite) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 05:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] tranny oil change In-Reply-To: <006701c8b961$ad473370$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> Message-ID: <18052.56360.qm@web82708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> For some more info on Ford Toploader transmission oil, check out this link: http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/specifications.htm Bill Peter Laurinaitis wrote: question guys - changed the tranny oil for the first time today (havent had the tiger that long) with Lucas Heavy Duty 80/90 Gear Oil ... question i had was...the manual says 1.8 liters is the capacity, but seems like it took more than 3 liters to fill the tranny up to the fill hole to the point it started to weep out (car was flat, not on a jack). is the proper fill level to fill it to the point it starts to weep out of the fill hole? what is the risk if overfilled? thks peter You are subscribed as fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From cjcoffel at sonic.net Tue May 20 09:55:50 2008 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:55:50 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger References: <001c01c8b9e9$fad794d0$f086be70$@com> <4831E5C5.5050106@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <000601c8ba91$fa6052a0$6401a8c0@pc1> http://autos.yahoo.com/auto-shows/autoshow_top_homepage/555/2008-Beijing-Auto-Show-Unveiled/2;_ylc=X3oDMTE5bGhkMW12BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXB1bHNlBHNsawNjb25jZXB0LWdlZWx5 From drmayf at mayfco.com Tue May 20 13:03:52 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:03:52 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger In-Reply-To: <000601c8ba91$fa6052a0$6401a8c0@pc1> References: <001c01c8b9e9$fad794d0$f086be70$@com> <4831E5C5.5050106@SoCal.rr.com> <000601c8ba91$fa6052a0$6401a8c0@pc1> Message-ID: <48332098.9020307@mayfco.com> Hey, the car looks great in profile, but they sure lost the ball in the weeds on that front end! Must have something to do with chinese dragons or something. looks to be underpowered. mayf Chris and Jodie wrote: >http://autos.yahoo.com/auto-shows/autoshow_top_homepage/555/2008-Beijing-Auto-Show-Unveiled/2;_ylc=X3oDMTE5bGhkMW12BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXB1bHNlBHNsawNjb25jZXB0LWdlZWx5 >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From rcsphx at qwest.net Tue May 20 21:31:38 2008 From: rcsphx at qwest.net (Richard) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 20:31:38 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] color codes Message-ID: <001501c8baf3$3ba88be0$6501a8c0@D4TDG641> Anybody know where there is a complete list of color codes for the Tigers? From laurin212 at yahoo.com Tue May 20 21:54:19 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 23:54:19 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] color codes References: <001501c8baf3$3ba88be0$6501a8c0@D4TDG641> Message-ID: <001401c8baf6$590c2b30$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> http://www.sunbeam.org.au/paint/index.html regards, peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard" To: "Tiger List" Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: [Tigers] color codes > Anybody know where there is a complete list of color codes for the Tigers? From rcsphx at qwest.net Tue May 20 22:09:31 2008 From: rcsphx at qwest.net (Richard) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 21:09:31 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] color codes Message-ID: <004601c8baf8$85f34eb0$6501a8c0@D4TDG641> Thanks guys...just what I needed From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue May 20 22:31:38 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:31:38 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Dales brakes Message-ID: Does anyone know if you can stuill run stock 13" wheels with dales 10.5" Diameter Rotor kit and the rear brake kit? -- Regards Michael King From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed May 21 05:48:47 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:48:47 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Dales brakes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a841b0805210448t747782d1u8427a1fbebca4bd3@mail.gmail.com> pretty sure you can as i've seen brembo rotors at least that big with 13" wheels. 13" on his rear kit should be fine too although, again, i've not checked. On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 5:31 AM, michael king wrote: > Does anyone know if you can stuill run stock 13" wheels with dales 10.5" > Diameter Rotor kit and the rear brake kit? > > -- > Regards > > Michael King > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From davidandvarley at hotmail.com Wed May 21 08:33:00 2008 From: davidandvarley at hotmail.com (David and Varley Tweddle) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 22:33:00 +0800 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger milestone - 100,000 miles at 11:35 on May 20th Message-ID: Hi Sunbeamers! My B9472884 had a milestone today....it clocked it's 100,000th mile in perfect Tiger conditions (at 65mph on a deserted country road, temp gauge 88C, oil pressure 70psi). I'm lucky enough to have the original "Green card" English registration document which lists previous owners (and odometer readings). The car had travelled 71,679 miles when I bought it in 1982. It didn't do many miles whilst I was working but after retirement in 2004 I'm using every week and enjoying it more and more. >From memory, since first registration (I don't have the green card with me at the moment) the car has travelled on average 6.36 miles/day . Not too hectic at all!! The car is 15,721 days old or 43 years, 15 days old. (website http://www.timeanddate.com/ used to calculate days between dates). Alternative time units 15,721 days can be converted to one of these units: 1,358,294,400 seconds 22,638,240 minutes 377,304 hours 2245 weeks (rounded down) and the dashboard clock still works!! Next topic...............Perth Sunbeam outing.......... On Sunday here in Perth we had a "British Car day" up at a place called Gin Gin (small country town about 60 miles north of Perth). There were 3 Tigers, 10 Alpines and several Rapiers Hillman Imps etc. A great day was had by all. All the Sunbeam/Rootes group owners having a great time. The Humber Super Snipes and Hillman Imps were parked nearby also so it was a real "Rootes Group" gathering. Cheers to all David in Perth - Western Australia How many miles has your Tiger done? _________________________________________________________________ Search for local singles online @ Lavalife - Click here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Ea u%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den %5FAU%26a%3D30290&_t=764581033&_r=email_taglines_Search_OCT07&_m=EXT From shutchin at netjets.com Wed May 21 08:38:46 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:38:46 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger milestone - 100,000 miles at 11:35 on May 20th Message-ID: 52,000 Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net Wed May 21 08:53:31 2008 From: ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net (Ross) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 07:53:31 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger milestone - 100, 000 miles at 11:35 on May 20th In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c8bb52$70d85fc0$6600a8c0@ROSS> 59,101.9 Ross "Commodore Blues" Hulse 52,000 Scott Hutchinson From alittlemoreink at hotmail.com Wed May 21 10:54:11 2008 From: alittlemoreink at hotmail.com (John Crawley) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:54:11 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Mallory 657 rev-limiting Tach In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All: Can anyone supply me with a wiring diagram for a mallory rev-limiting 657 Tach? Not quite a TIGER question as I need it for may single seater -project but you guys seem to know everything. Godspeed in Safety Fast Jc ************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Wed May 21 11:03:23 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:03:23 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Mallory 657 rev-limiting Tach Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFCD@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> >From here: http://www.accel-ignition.com/AskTechResults.aspx?BrandID=6&ID=87419 We get the answer: Red to ignition 12 volts, black is chassis ground, white is instrument light, and the green goes to coil negative This is pretty standard color coding for North American aftermarket tachs. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Crawley Sent: May 21, 2008 10:54 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Mallory 657 rev-limiting Tach Hi All: Can anyone supply me with a wiring diagram for a mallory rev-limiting 657 Tach? Not quite a TIGER question as I need it for may single seater -project but you guys seem to know everything. Godspeed in Safety Fast Jc ************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed May 21 11:25:23 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:25:23 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] hillclimb photos Message-ID: <39a841b0805211025s1720bf5ahf504ed0c1de4bf02@mail.gmail.com> as promised, here are some pictures from prescott speed hillclimb a couple of weeks ago. i had my niece, sister and wife as passengers as they were untimed runs at a charity event. http://owainlloyd.no-ip.com:8080/photos/Tiger/PrescottOfficial/jalbum.html there are also 3 videos on youtube - search for "sunbeam tiger prescott". quality is not great but the sound is nice. From Rollright at aol.com Wed May 21 13:15:40 2008 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:15:40 EDT Subject: [Tigers] cam sprocket Message-ID: Hello, Saw your interesting letter on the Tiger list-serve. I too had a high mileage Tiger and last October the "early" cam sprocket lost 4 of its nylon teeth causing valves to come in contact with the pistons. A very bad day. Complete engine rebuild. In "How to rebuild your small block Ford" by Tom Monroe, he says that this is the Achilles heel of the earlier (read ours) thin wall Fords. This gear has an aluminum center with nylon teeth for quiet operation. By the late 60's, Ford went to a cast iron cam sprocket. The nylon wears well but becomes brittle in higher heat environments (our engine compartments). Do the research. Ask others. My recommendation is to change this part and save your original engine. Best regards, Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From cjcoffel at sonic.net Wed May 21 14:49:17 2008 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:49:17 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! References: Message-ID: <000601c8bb84$23700440$6401a8c0@pc1> http://registry.teamshelby.com/register_new.asp Click on 1964 and than Tiger................... From MWood24020 at aol.com Wed May 21 15:02:34 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:02:34 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! Message-ID: In a message dated 5/21/2008 1:52:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cjcoffel at sonic.net writes: http://registry.teamshelby.com/register_new.asp Click on 1964 and than Tiger................... Unbelievable. Exactly how low will CS go? Not only are they making a blatant attempt to invalidate the work done by SAAC in compiling the true registry, but now they are also trying to roll the Tiger (TIROST) into the mix? I have no interest in "Team Shelby" or anything else that directly, or indirectly, benefits that crazy old man, CS...well, there is the small matter of the Mustang Shelby GT I bought this weekend...oops :-) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From sganz at pacbell.net Wed May 21 17:11:16 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! Message-ID: <86725.54817.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Low, and I have a Sunbeam that was made by a company in Jolly old England with some design by an outside company, that just happened to be the Carol Shelby, and his great love and support of the car still warms my heart (Sarcastic). No I would not give any of the shelby enterprises any help with this kind of stuff. End Rant Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: "MWood24020 at aol.com" To: cjcoffel at sonic.net; Rollright at aol.com; owain.lloyd at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:02:34 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! In a message dated 5/21/2008 1:52:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cjcoffel at sonic.net writes: http://registry.teamshelby.com/register_new.asp Click on 1964 and than Tiger................... Unbelievable. Exactly how low will CS go? Not only are they making a blatant attempt to invalidate the work done by SAAC in compiling the true registry, but now they are also trying to roll the Tiger (TIROST) into the mix? I have no interest in "Team Shelby" or anything else that directly, or indirectly, benefits that crazy old man, CS...well, there is the small matter of the Mustang Shelby GT I bought this weekend...oops :-) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From drmayf at mayfco.com Wed May 21 17:42:22 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:42:22 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! In-Reply-To: <000601c8bb84$23700440$6401a8c0@pc1> References: <000601c8bb84$23700440$6401a8c0@pc1> Message-ID: <4834B35E.1060204@mayfco.com> Hmmmm, a little humor here... a lot of people have suggested that their Tigers wouold probabvly appreciated more if somehow more involment with Shelby... well, here it is! I have no idea what is to be done with this "registry" but perhaps this is the umbrella that the collectors have wanted, eh? mayf Chris and Jodie wrote: >http://registry.teamshelby.com/register_new.asp > >Click on 1964 and than Tiger................... >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From gswaybright at yahoo.com Wed May 21 20:03:18 2008 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 19:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! In-Reply-To: <4834B35E.1060204@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <975164.51951.qm@web31705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't have a strong opinion either way yet about the SAAC vs Team Shelby issue, but from the perspective of advancing the value of Tigers, it should only be a plus to support this effort. The fact that they are including the Tiger is itself a very positive signal. Stephen Waybright --- On Wed, 5/21/08, drmayf wrote: > From: drmayf > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! > To: "Chris and Jodie" > Cc: Rollright at aol.com, tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 7:42 PM > Hmmmm, a little humor here... a lot of people have suggested > that their > Tigers wouold probabvly appreciated more if somehow more > involment with > Shelby... well, here it is! I have no idea what is to be > done with this > "registry" but perhaps this is the umbrella that > the collectors have > wanted, eh? > > mayf From MWood24020 at aol.com Wed May 21 20:56:20 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 22:56:20 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! Message-ID: In a message dated 5/21/2008 7:04:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gswaybright at yahoo.com writes: The fact that they are including the Tiger is itself a very positive signal. I'd be careful in making that leap...I don't see any legitimate upside, personally. The relationship (Shelby, the manufacturer and Tiger, the marque) is tenuous at best...they're only including us Tiger guys because it grows the "user base" for the bogus Team Shelby operation to make money from... But, we'll see how it plays out...it may be that my personal distaste for most of Shelby's business activity over the last decade is clouding my judgement. Mike **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Wed May 21 21:04:42 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 23:04:42 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! Message-ID: I will let not let them know where my car is. Fum.=, sounds like an e-bay scam! In a message dated 5/21/2008 7:56:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, MWood24020 at aol.com writes: In a message dated 5/21/2008 7:04:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gswaybright at yahoo.com writes: The fact that they are including the Tiger is itself a very positive signal. I'd be careful in making that leap...I don't see any legitimate upside, personally. The relationship (Shelby, the manufacturer and Tiger, the marque) is tenuous at best...they're only including us Tiger guys because it grows the "user base" for the bogus Team Shelby operation to make money from... But, we'll see how it plays out...it may be that my personal distaste for most of Shelby's business activity over the last decade is clouding my judgement. Mike **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) You are subscribed as aaaglasss at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net Wed May 21 21:35:21 2008 From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 20:35:21 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! References: Message-ID: <004801c8bbbc$dd181d50$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Carroll Shelby happens to love hanging around Tiger owners. He's told that to a number of people who have passed it on to me. One of those was his wife, Cleo. Another was Cobra restorer and CAT member Mike McCluskey. Carroll has told people that Tiger owners "aren't stuck-up like the Cobra owners". As you probably know, there's an award that the STOA is not bashful about handing out, their "Dumb___" Certificate. They've made sure to include Carroll as a recipient several times and he's always roared with laughter. He likes laughing and I get the idea that he'd rather laugh at himself in a "Roast" type situation than be fawned over. Don't get me wrong. I've heard Shelby stories from all sides. I'm just adding that the Shelby's happen to like us. In fact I spoke with Cleo earlier this week & she's planning on driving a Tiger up to Big Bear for TU. I'm sure she'll be happy to answer any questions Tiger owners have about "Team Shelby". As far as "growing a member base for Team Shelby", neither the Shelby's nor any of their employees have ever broached the subject of Tiger participation in Team Shelby with me and they know of my association with Tigers and membership in seveal Tiger clubs. "Team Shelby" personnel have approached local chapters of SAAC but, to my knowledge, not Tiger clubs. I assume Tigers are just off their radar, probably a nice place to be. BTW, I haven't registered any of our Tigers. Buck Trippel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! > In a message dated 5/21/2008 7:04:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > gswaybright at yahoo.com writes: > > The fact that they are including the Tiger is itself a very positive > signal. > > > > I'd be careful in making that leap...I don't see any legitimate upside, > personally. The relationship (Shelby, the manufacturer and Tiger, the > marque) is > tenuous at best...they're only including us Tiger guys because it grows > the > "user base" for the bogus Team Shelby operation to make money from... > > But, we'll see how it plays out...it may be that my personal distaste for > most of Shelby's business activity over the last decade is clouding my > judgement. > > Mike > > > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as bucktrippel at verizon.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From MWood24020 at aol.com Wed May 21 22:23:09 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 00:23:09 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! Message-ID: Now that is a very well thought out, personal opinion on the matter, for sure. Thanks for taking the time to put it out there. :-) I'm still, with my friendships in SAAC and other clubs, firmly in the camp that Shelby's more recent business activities have done irreparable damage to his name, reputation and legacy, most visibly in this whole disowning of SAAC and the formation of "Team Shelby". But, that's an outsiders opinion, looking in with my own prejudices. The question I have is why they would include the Tiger in their "registry", if not to promote additional membership for Team Shelby? I don't think the link between Shelby and Sunbeam can be seen as strong enough to support it being done purely for historic reasons. There are any number of significant names (Lotus, Cosworth, Abarth etc.) that have done similar feasibility/engineering/prototype work for more mainstream manufacturers, but the end product is seldom associated with a registry of the "significant" name...but, then, those registries typically are maintained by not-for-profit clubs. Anyhow, it is very cool that the Shelby's are simpatico with the Tiger and I'm sure they would be amazing people to hang out with, just to hear the stories! In a message dated 5/21/2008 8:36:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, BuckTrippel at Verizon.net writes: Carroll Shelby happens to love hanging around Tiger owners. He's told that to a number of people who have passed it on to me. One of those was his wife, Cleo. Another was Cobra restorer and CAT member Mike McCluskey. Carroll has told people that Tiger owners "aren't stuck-up like the Cobra owners". As you probably know, there's an award that the STOA is not bashful about handing out, their "Dumb___" Certificate. They've made sure to include Carroll as a recipient several times and he's always roared with laughter. He likes laughing and I get the idea that he'd rather laugh at himself in a "Roast" type situation than be fawned over. Don't get me wrong. I've heard Shelby stories from all sides. I'm just adding that the Shelby's happen to like us. In fact I spoke with Cleo earlier this week & she's planning on driving a Tiger up to Big Bear for TU. I'm sure she'll be happy to answer any questions Tiger owners have about "Team Shelby". As far as "growing a member base for Team Shelby", neither the Shelby's nor any of their employees have ever broached the subject of Tiger participation in Team Shelby with me and they know of my association with Tigers and membership in seveal Tiger clubs. "Team Shelby" personnel have approached local chapters of SAAC but, to my knowledge, not Tiger clubs. I assume Tigers are just off their radar, probably a nice place to be. BTW, I haven't registered any of our Tigers. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From achd73 at yahoo.com Thu May 22 01:01:59 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 00:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Drag racing Tigers In-Reply-To: <004801c8bbbc$dd181d50$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <610798.34946.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> List- Over the last couple of years a close friend and the person who sprays paint for me, painted an 89 or so Mustang that his son was building a 351 stroker engine for. So late last year and last night I rode along to see how the car ran. We attended the multi race trac in St.Louis, where Tim (the owner/driver) makes his home. Its a 1/4 mile track and there where several pretty fast cars, including four or five running in the 8s at 155 mph.Last night was considered a tune night and anyone could run what trailered or drove in for a small $10 fee. Of course it made me want a stroker engine even more than ever but just seeing what kind of times I would get made me start thinking what I would have to do to get my Tiger track ready. Tim did make three runs, all in the 10 second plus range and he didnt have the nitrous bottle in the car. He has done better but thats not what this is about. My question is to all the owners who do have stroker engines, some running nitrous, others just tons of horsepower. Im curious to know IF we have any members who would tell us what kind of times they have turned at their local track or any track for that matter. What engine size (stroked, etc) they are running and with or without nitrous. I know we have some owners that have some extremely fast Tigers and Im hoping they will share what the numbers are, mph etc etc and any other interesting information they would be kind enough to share with us wanna be go fast owners. Thanks, TonytheTiger From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Thu May 22 01:11:46 2008 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 08:11:46 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! In-Reply-To: <86725.54817.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <86725.54817.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One other thought............ How many tigers do you see advertised that say "listed in the Book of Norman" to add authenticity - well we all know they are ALL listed in the BoN ! Perhaps the next stage will be 'listed as a genuine Shelby' and without that level of accreditation wont be worth as much. Is there ay harm in registering your car ? Alternatively of course. We could encourage the true followers of Shelbys work to register their Algers - after all he made the first one! Jeff In message <86725.54817.qm at web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, Sandy Ganz writes >Low, and I have a Sunbeam that was made by a company in Jolly old England with >some design by an outside company, that just happened to be the Carol Shelby, >and his great love and support of the car still warms my heart (Sarcastic). >No >I would not give any of the shelby enterprises any help with this kind of >stuff. >End Rant >Sandy > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: "MWood24020 at aol.com" > >To: cjcoffel at sonic.net; Rollright at aol.com; >owain.lloyd at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net >Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 >2:02:34 PM >Subject: Re: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! > >In a message dated >5/21/2008 1:52:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >cjcoffel at sonic.net writes: >http://registry.teamshelby.com/register_new.asp > >Click on 1964 and than >Tiger................... > > > >Unbelievable. Exactly how low will CS go? > >Not >only are they making a blatant attempt to invalidate the work done by >SAAC >in compiling the true registry, but now they are also trying to roll the >Tiger (TIROST) into the mix? > >I have no interest in "Team Shelby" or anything >else that directly, or >indirectly, benefits that crazy old man, CS...well, >there is the small matter of >the Mustang Shelby GT I bought this >weekend...oops :-) > > > >**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. >Watch "Cooking with >Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. >(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net >http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers >http://www.team.net/archive >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive > -- Jeff Howarth From modtiger at comcast.net Thu May 22 02:18:15 2008 From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 01:18:15 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] The first Alger In-Reply-To: References: <86725.54817.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080522010104.05093e98@comcast.net> At 12:11 AM 5/22/2008, you wrote: >... >Alternatively of course. We could encourage the true followers of >Shelbys work to register their Algers - after all he made the first one! Actually, he made the second, if you want to look at it that way. Ian paid Ken Miles to build the first, and they drove it from LA to San Francisco and back to test the concept before the Shelby prototype was completed. But I really think we should reserve the term "Alger" for the creations that have occurred since the end of Tiger production, because of the value differentials with the Alpine. The prototypes certainly deserve more respect. Tom Hall ModTiger Engineering LLC www.tigerengineering.net From rande at thecia.net Thu May 22 05:25:18 2008 From: rande at thecia.net (rande) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 07:25:18 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Shelby registry Message-ID: <4835581e.3896.0@thecia.net> I don't doubt Carroll's personal affection for Tigers and their owners, afterall, he was at two of the last Tiger events I had a chance to attend, but I don't see the need to volunteer or have volunteered information about my Tiger to Team Shelby, any more than the need to supply this information to a Jensen club. I say this as someone with a "The Now and Forever Cobra" poster inches above my Mac monitor, and the desire to stay on good terms with both Buck and MWood, at least one of which will be within bruising distance to me in Big Bear next month. Rande From fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Thu May 22 06:24:03 2008 From: fordlandia at sbcglobal.net (Bill Waite) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 05:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] The First Alger In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080522010104.05093e98@comcast.net> Message-ID: <89167.63304.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ah... now I know why Shelby wants to register all the Tigers. He's going to start filing lawsuits against anybody who wants to build an Alger. Unless, of course, they have paid Team Shelby and are licensed to produce a "Shelby Replica." Bill Tom Hall wrote: At 12:11 AM 5/22/2008, you wrote: >... >Alternatively of course. We could encourage the true followers of >Shelbys work to register their Algers - after all he made the first one! Actually, he made the second, if you want to look at it that way. Ian paid Ken Miles to build the first, and they drove it from LA to San Francisco and back to test the concept before the Shelby prototype was completed. But I really think we should reserve the term "Alger" for the creations that have occurred since the end of Tiger production, because of the value differentials with the Alpine. The prototypes certainly deserve more respect. Tom Hall ModTiger Engineering LLC www.tigerengineering.net You are subscribed as fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Thu May 22 06:37:07 2008 From: fordlandia at sbcglobal.net (Bill Waite) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 05:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Drag Racing Tigers In-Reply-To: <610798.34946.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <849609.6377.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tony, Great topic, I hope a lot of people respond to the Tiger List. Just a thought: half the battle drag racing a Tiger appears to be in the rest of the set-up (getting all that power to the pavement). The stroker motor may be the "easy part." I'd sure like to learn more about what Tiger drag racers have done with their suspensions, rear ends (type/ratio), traction bars, transmission type, wheel/tire choices, etc. Bill Tony Somebody wrote: List- Over the last couple of years a close friend and the person who sprays paint for me, painted an 89 or so Mustang that his son was building a 351 stroker engine for. So late last year and last night I rode along to see how the car ran. We attended the multi race trac in St.Louis, where Tim (the owner/driver) makes his home. Its a 1/4 mile track and there where several pretty fast cars, including four or five running in the 8s at 155 mph.Last night was considered a tune night and anyone could run what trailered or drove in for a small $10 fee. Of course it made me want a stroker engine even more than ever but just seeing what kind of times I would get made me start thinking what I would have to do to get my Tiger track ready. Tim did make three runs, all in the 10 second plus range and he didnt have the nitrous bottle in the car. He has done better but thats not what this is about. My question is to all the owners who do have stroker engines, some running nitrous, others just tons of horsepower. Im curious to know IF we have any members who would tell us what kind of times they have turned at their local track or any track for that matter. What engine size (stroked, etc) they are running and with or without nitrous. I know we have some owners that have some extremely fast Tigers and Im hoping they will share what the numbers are, mph etc etc and any other interesting information they would be kind enough to share with us wanna be go fast owners. Thanks, TonytheTiger You are subscribed as fordlandia at sbcglobal.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu May 22 06:59:08 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 08:59:08 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! Message-ID: <000b01c8bc0b$9fe22800$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Unbelievable. Exactly how low will CS go? Not only are they making a blatant attempt to invalidate the work done by SAAC in compiling the true registry, but now they are also trying to roll the Tiger (TIROST) into the mix? I have no interest in "Team Shelby" or anything else that directly, or indirectly, benefits that crazy old man, CS...well, there is the small matter of the Mustang Shelby GT I bought this weekend...oops :-) Low, and I have a Sunbeam that was made by a company in Jolly old England with some design by an outside company, that just happened to be the Carol Shelby, and his great love and support of the car still warms my heart (Sarcastic). No I would not give any of the shelby enterprises any help with this kind of stuff. End Rant I'd be careful in making that leap...I don't see any legitimate upside, > personally. The relationship (Shelby, the manufacturer and Tiger, the > marque) is > tenuous at best...they're only including us Tiger guys because it grows > the > "user base" for the bogus Team Shelby operation to make money from... > > But, we'll see how it plays out...it may be that my personal distaste for > most of Shelby's business activity over the last decade is clouding my > judgement. > Seems that some people harbor, dare I say it, hate for Carroll Shelby. What has he done to generate this level of vitriol? I don't own a Shelby product ( but doI own a Sunbeam Tiger) so I don't have a personal interest in what Carroll Shelby does in the business world or with SAAC. I guess the local and national newspapers missed the Carrol Shelby scandal that pissed off some people. Did Shelby hire Guatemalan laborers and pay them slave wages to build his cars or was it something else? The Smoking Gun web site is silent on the Carroll Shelby scandal. So where can I read about this horrible man Carrol Shelby and the awful things he has done? Jeff From awtiger at cox.net Thu May 22 08:16:33 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! In-Reply-To: <000b01c8bc0b$9fe22800$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <20080522101633.7T5FE.1767.imail@eastrmwml18.mgt.cox.net> Here you go, Jeff...read away and draw your own conculsions... http://www.saac.com/ Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX (former owner of '65 G.T. 350 #SFM5S421) ---- Jeffrey Nichols wrote: So where can I read about this horrible man Carrol > Shelby and the awful things he has done? > > > > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Thu May 22 08:49:38 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:49:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! Message-ID: Here you go, Jeff...read away and draw your own conculsions... Sounds like a bunch of "he said, she saids".....Definitely one for the courts. This "club" (company) taking in a few hundred thousand a year is going to have a tough time against a multimillion dollar company. It can get drawn out until the club is broke. That is the American way like it or not. M **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From spmdr at juno.com Thu May 22 08:54:59 2008 From: spmdr at juno.com (spmdr at juno.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 07:54:59 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Drag Racing Tigers Message-ID: <20080522.075501.-2055071.2.spmdr@juno.com> On behalf of Tom Duncan, Tom's best run is 12.02 at 116 mph, I think. He usually runs in the 12.30s at 114 mph range. His Tiger has a 289 + .060 off the shelf cast pistons, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and intake, and flat tappet solid cam, Also a wide ratio Trans and 4.11 gears in a 9 inch Ford rear. ...and with 13" dia wheels and slicks under the unflaired fenders, single metallic disc, 1800 # clutch, he can lift the front wheels nicely! ...And THAT is ALL Throttle, without the bottle. ...He has NOS but has found that with a stick, it is more trouble than it is worth, plus it puts him in different class requiring more safety stuff. DW From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Thu May 22 09:14:45 2008 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:14:45 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 1/4 mile times Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF099257F6@norn32.d30.intra> Tony, I have not yet had my car to the track but with the old Car Test DOS program I have it indicates a traction limited 11.1 with my 349.5 ci stroker with 381 HP to the wheels and 406 lb ft. I am sure there are some other programs now that are more sophisticated but I like this one as I can race other cars with my combination ... great to kill a few minutes when you want a break. I hope to get to track this year but lack of a roll bar creates a problem and I just have not got around to it yet. Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc. PH: 949-305-5393 Cell: 949-289-3357 FX: 425-955-6268 Email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal Email: timronak at cox.net If you received this message in error please inform the sender and delete the message. From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu May 22 10:03:50 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:03:50 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! References: <20080522101633.7T5FE.1767.imail@eastrmwml18.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: <001a01c8bc25$6d217460$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Yeah, I read the various articles detailing the dispute. I look at as Carroll Shelby trying to recalim his legacy. Since he created it, my view is he can decide what he wants to do with it. I see you use to own a GT 350. Don't tell me in a fit of rage against Mr. Shelby you sold it. To show you what a generous person I am, since I'm free this weekend, I will collect from anyone on the list any Shelby Mustang 1965 - 1968 (don't want the 69 - 70 Mustangs because they were not built by Shelby) to relieve the owner's anger and disgust at Mr. Shelby. Also, you can mail me any Shelby signed paraphanelia such as programs, posters, photos etc. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; "Jeffrey Nichols" Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! > Here you go, Jeff...read away and draw your own conculsions... > > http://www.saac.com/ > > Andy Walker > Edmond, OK > B382001600LRXFE > B9006857LRX > (former owner of '65 G.T. 350 #SFM5S421) > > > ---- Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > So where can I read about this horrible man Carrol >> Shelby and the awful things he has done? >> >> >> >> >> Jeff >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net >> >> Tigers at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers >> >> http://www.team.net/archive From cjcoffel at sonic.net Thu May 22 10:21:37 2008 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:21:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! References: Message-ID: <001601c8bc27$e91a4ae0$6401a8c0@pc1> I love the way Saac has a decent website now. They seem motivated to spend some of that money. I read Shelbys reason and it sounds spot on to me. I've heard more than one club president say he only became president in order to find a car. How the Saac people inspire such loyality is beyond me. I sent my money and recieved on tatered magazine in a year. From mrlau at charter.net Thu May 22 10:20:41 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:20:41 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! In-Reply-To: <001a01c8bc25$6d217460$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <20080522162115.SZNI4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Jeff, I have to agree with you. It isn't right to have a trial by the pittance of information that can be gleaned off the biased net. Shelby did what he did throughout life and is who he is because of his own choosing. He spent his time and his money and a lot of things are what they are because of him doing the work and taking the risks years ago. His name is his and not public property and I can easily see why he would balk at people using it against his will. -- Bill -- Yeah, I read the various articles detailing the dispute. I look at as Carroll Shelby trying to recalim his legacy. Since he created it, my view is he can decide what he wants to do with it. I see you use to own a GT 350. Don't tell me in a fit of rage against Mr. Shelby you sold it. To show you what a generous person I am, since I'm free this weekend, I will collect from anyone on the list any Shelby Mustang 1965 - 1968 (don't want the 69 - 70 Mustangs because they were not built by Shelby) to relieve the owner's anger and disgust at Mr. Shelby. Also, you can mail me any Shelby signed paraphanelia such as programs, posters, photos etc. Jeff > Here you go, Jeff...read away and draw your own conculsions... > > http://www.saac.com/ > > Andy Walker > Edmond, OK > B382001600LRXFE > B9006857LRX > (former owner of '65 G.T. 350 #SFM5S421) > > > ---- Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > So where can I read about this horrible man Carrol >> Shelby and the awful things he has done? From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu May 22 10:33:53 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:33:53 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! Message-ID: You guys, in my opinion, are missing one very important fact: if it wasn't for the work done by SAAC, it is debatable that the Shelby brand would be anywhere near as well known, respected or intact. What isn't debatable is that there would be much less confirmed history and data on the individual cars...and the doors would have remained wide open for the "cloning" of Shelbys (sound familiar?). Fact is, Shelby, the man, basically turned his back on the whole Ford relationship, and the cars, as soon as the racing was done, moving on to other projects to generate a buck...remember the Shelby Omni? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but the fact is SAAC took up the task of preserving the history and integrity of the Shelby Fords, when no one else was willing to... No matter how you look at it, while Shelby owns his name, SAAC has been the true steward of the legacy and is owed, big time, by the Shelby family. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com Thu May 22 10:43:24 2008 From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:43:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Did my dad help spark the first Tiger? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Alternatively of course. We could encourage the true followers of >>Shelbys work to register their Algers - after all he made the first one! >Actually, he made the second, if you want to look at it that >way. Ian paid Ken Miles to build the first, and they drove it from >LA to San Francisco and back to test the concept before the Shelby >prototype was completed. Or better yet, my dad shoehorned a Studebaker straight 6 engine into an MG TD more than a DECADE before either the Cobra, Tiger or any combination thereof. AND, Ken Miles was the manager of International Motors service department where my dad would take his MG. So, maybe it was my dad's TD that sparked Miles' thoughts on putting the V8 in the Alpine. I'm sure my dad would happily sign anyone's car who wanted it. ====================================================================== Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession. ====================================================================== From cjcoffel at sonic.net Thu May 22 10:44:55 2008 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:44:55 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! References: Message-ID: <001001c8bc2b$2a64e4d0$6401a8c0@pc1> I guess nobody remembers the "Kopec in trunk" signs. Who wants to belong to a club that doesn't like the guy who is responsible for the whole thing in the first place? Great how they get a decent website after they get sued. No interest while the money flowed smoothly..... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! > You guys, in my opinion, are missing one very important fact: if it wasn't > for the work done by SAAC, it is debatable that the Shelby brand would be > anywhere near as well known, respected or intact. What isn't debatable is > that > there would be much less confirmed history and data on the individual > cars...and > the doors would have remained wide open for the "cloning" of Shelbys > (sound > familiar?). Fact is, Shelby, the man, basically turned his back on the > whole > Ford relationship, and the cars, as soon as the racing was done, moving > on > to other projects to generate a buck...remember the Shelby Omni? I'm not > saying there's anything wrong with that, but the fact is SAAC took up the > task of > preserving the history and integrity of the Shelby Fords, when no one > else > was willing to... > > No matter how you look at it, while Shelby owns his name, SAAC has been > the > true steward of the legacy and is owed, big time, by the Shelby family. > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cjcoffel at sonic.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 3050 (20080423) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu May 22 10:47:58 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:47:58 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! Message-ID: In a message dated 5/22/2008 9:45:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cjcoffel at sonic.net writes: I guess nobody remembers the "Kopec in trunk" signs. Who wants to belong to a club that doesn't like the guy who is responsible for the whole thing in the first place? You think all the STOA, CAT, etc. leaders have been popular? ;-) disclaimer: this is only a joke!! **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu May 22 11:59:38 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:59:38 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4835B48A.8050509@SoCal.rr.com> Just to add a few cents more, We attended numerous British Car Shows at a municipal park. When Carroll was there for one he was signing all kinds of Tigers. He was always gracious, and friendly. I even joined SAAC, as well as the Tiger Clubs. SAAC, recently, has come under fire by the Shelby Organization for some "licensing" agreement "differences of opinion". SAAC is not a profit making organization, just a club of enthusiasts. Don't know where this stands today, but SAAC has maintained a list of owners of Shelby associated vehicles, including the Tiger. Noting that CAT, TE/AE, STOA and others maintain similar organizations, and the valuable "TAC" activities of STOA are by unfunded volunteers. I prefer this to any "sponsored" groups purely because of their independence. It appears that "Team Shelby" would like to "own" the information. I suspect for commercial, or fund raising purposes. This is OK, provided you understand that their goals may not always coincide with that of their "members". Who votes for the officers? I don't know, but have suspicions. I have always been in favor of "Marque" organizations, all the way back to the "Four Cylinder Club", and the "MG Car Club of America", in the early 50's. None were associated with the manufacturers, but were purely for the enjoyment of the members and they're interests. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com From awtiger at cox.net Thu May 22 12:24:24 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:24:24 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! In-Reply-To: <001a01c8bc25$6d217460$6601a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <20080522142425.3MWJ2.4143.imail@eastrmwml18.mgt.cox.net> Nope, Jeff...sold the car back in '94. I still love all Shelbys and Cobras and heartily wish all this mess and litigation would just go away. This kind of crap just ruins it for me. I've got to make an editorial comment here, though. I've owned two Shelbys, the aforementioned '65 and '67 G.T. 350, four Tigers, three Alpines and a smattering of other interesting rolling stock. Bar none, the one I've always come back to is the Tiger. I plan on keeping my Mk1A until I croak off, which hopefully won't be for a good long while. Another plus is that my wife seems to enjoy it as much as I do, although it may be that she gets joy out of it just knowing that I get so much enjoyment out of it. Either way, the Tiger is a great car and we are all very, very lucky people to be part of such an active and interested group. I'd hate to think that all the crap that's going on between SAAC and Team Shelby would ever infiltrate the Tiger community. Frankly, I don't care who had what to do with the car in the early days; the cars are great because of the quality and the "fun factor" that they provide. I plan to keep on enjoying my Tiger no matter what. Keep on Tigerin', Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From motoys2001 at comcast.net Thu May 22 12:30:39 2008 From: motoys2001 at comcast.net (motoys2001 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:30:39 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! Message-ID: <052220081830.2801.4835BBCF000616E200000AF12200734830CECFCFCD9C97019B0103@comcast.net> All, SAAC is a for profit organization. From cmccann at lwpb.com Thu May 22 13:08:46 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:08:46 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! In-Reply-To: References: <86725.54817.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well this thread certainly is getting a lot of attention... I too have heard mixed stories about the man, but a big block cobra is still my favorite supercar / muscle car of all time, and has been since I was about 9 years old. I got interesting in Tigers purely from a cobra influence....at the time I guess I thought I was getting the poor mans cobra that I had always heard about....and getting the closest to a real Shelby that I would ever have. I agree with Andy, all of this issue really takes the fun out of it for me. I know Ol' Shel has done some dirty underhanded stuff in the name of business...ive even heard that when you donate 100 bucks to his childrens foundation about 4 bucks of it actually goes to the cause...and the rest gets swallowed up in paperwork....(assumably to him). But all of this is rumor to me, because I either don't have access to the info, don't know where to look, that would validate or debunk this accusation. I do know that most of us have done a few things we aren't proud of over the years, and when you're a celebrity, those same things tend to get more attention. I have mixed feelings and don't know what to think.....but if someome told me john wayne was a child molester...I don't know that it would make me throw out my copy of rio bravo. Btw, I registered my Tiger on there a long time ago, before any of this discussion had started....thinking it was the cool thing to do. I think Jeff Howarth asked if there is any harm in doing so...I don't know but I would like to know. I sure hope not, cuz I already did. Cullen 66 Tiger, B382001452 1967 Shell Valley Cobra Replica 67 Chevy Nova pro street 74 Triumph Daytona 500 T100R 1948 Chevy 2 ton cabover 1963 Falcon Ranchero 1991 Mustang lx 5.0, 12.50 daily driver 2003 Chevy Duramax 3/4 Ton HD 1969 Volkswagon Type III Squareback 1974 Volkswagen Type 181 "Thing" From lwall at wt-inc.com Thu May 22 13:26:54 2008 From: lwall at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:26:54 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger GT Message-ID: <005d01c8bc41$d0851d60$718f5820$@com> All, I was driving around today and spotted a tiger that I had not seen before. Here in Utah there are relatively few tigers and I thought I knew most of them. It was at a restoration shop having some minor work done. I spoke with the owner of the shop and he was kind enough to let me look it over. The VIN tag had a "GT" stamped above the VIN number. I would say the ID tag and the rivits looked original. I was told it was a 65 Tiger GT. There were not metal convertible top doors and no convertible top. I was told this is how the GT's came. The car was very "personalized" with lots of chrome and other items. The body was very straight, paint was pretty good and he had all the "special pieces". I am not one of the lucky few to own a "BON" and was wondering if anyone could take a moment to educate me on the "Tiger GT". I'm sorry but was in quite a hurry and did not get to take any pics or write down any numbers. It is only a couple blocks from my office and the owner of the shop would likely let document it further. Norm???? Finally he has an SAAC membership sticker and appears to either be a member of CAT or a past member. Thanks, Lynn BTW it was black with a hardtop From cjcoffel at sonic.net Thu May 22 13:33:45 2008 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:33:45 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! References: <86725.54817.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01c8bc42$c09d5920$6401a8c0@pc1> I just thought it was cool that Shelby was recognizing the Tiger. He's not the Pope. By any measure, he's been good to the Tiger community. I personally think Kopecs off his rocker if he thinks he's going to win this one. I own one of the checks he mentions (I didn't know the story when I bought it on E-Bay). I don't think anyone was given a thousand of Shelbys checks for free. To me Shelby and the great memmories assocoiated with his cars will remain the same. I'm not going to forget those because Some school teacher who's made a good living off someone elses work tells me he's the authority on truth. Kopec and friends remind me of what I don't like about the car thing. Chris From rootes1 at earthlink.net Thu May 22 13:40:53 2008 From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:40:53 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger GT In-Reply-To: <005d01c8bc41$d0851d60$718f5820$@com> References: <005d01c8bc41$d0851d60$718f5820$@com> Message-ID: B9470207 LRXFE - GT - one of fifteen GTs Tigers produced. ncm At 12:26 PM 5/22/2008, Lynn Wall wrote: >...snip..I am not one of the lucky few to own a "BON" and was >wondering if anyone >could take a moment to educate me on the "Tiger GT"...snip.. From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu May 22 14:56:39 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 16:56:39 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger GT Message-ID: In a message dated 5/22/2008 12:41:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rootes1 at earthlink.net writes: B9470207 LRXFE - GT - one of fifteen GTs Tigers produced. Norm, Wasn't there an article that featured that car in one of the Ford magazines about 10 years ago? I seem to remember the story pretty well...except for the date and the actual publication. Mike **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu May 22 14:59:08 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 16:59:08 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby! Message-ID: Well, if we all agreed on everything, life would certainly be boring...I happen to see the whole situation from nearly 180 degrees from your point of view...kind of interesting. I think we all can agree that Shelby had vision, was in the right place at the right time, and got it done "back in the day"! Mike **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu May 22 15:48:53 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:48:53 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] You Owe Me! Message-ID: <004801c8bc55$a127a0b0$6601a8c0@your03667082de> "No matter how you look at it, while Shelby owns his name, SAAC has been the true steward of the legacy and is owed, big time, by the Shelby family. " I don't see it and probably Carroll Shelby doesn't either. After all, if it wasn't for the "Shelby" name on the Mustang GT350 Mr. Kopec recently sold for $825,500 , he would have received far less money for the car. What do 1965 restored Mustangs sell for, $30,000? Apparently, you believe everyone would have forgotten the various races and championships Carroll Shelby won with the cars he made if it wasn't for Rick Kopec. There are "Shelby" Mustangs, Saleen Mustangs and even Parnelli Jones Edition Mustangs (in my opinion, the best of the lot) but I have never seen a "Kopec" Mustang. Maybe its time for Rick Kopec to create his own legend. Jeff From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu May 22 16:09:58 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:09:58 EDT Subject: [Tigers] You Owe Me! Message-ID: In a message dated 5/22/2008 2:49:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jxnichols at sbcglobal.net writes: "No matter how you look at it, while Shelby owns his name, SAAC has been the true steward of the legacy and is owed, big time, by the Shelby family. " I don't see it and probably Carroll Shelby doesn't either. After all, if it wasn't for the "Shelby" name on the Mustang GT350 Mr. Kopec recently sold for $825,500 , he would have received far less money for the car. What do 1965 restored Mustangs sell for, $30,000? Apparently, you believe everyone would have forgotten the various races and championships Carroll Shelby won with the cars he made if it wasn't for Rick Kopec. There are "Shelby" Mustangs, Saleen Mustangs and even Parnelli Jones Edition Mustangs (in my opinion, the best of the lot) but I have never seen a "Kopec" Mustang. Maybe its time for Rick Kopec to create his own legend. No, you don't get it... How much would a Shelby be worth today if there were a few thousand more "air cars", built in the '70s and '80s floating around? Thanks to SAAC and their authentication program, that hasn't happened. How many more Shelbys would have gone to the wreckers over the years, if there wasn't a National club that fostered enthusiasm and created opportunities to share the joys of Shelby ownership? That's not even including SAAC's pioneering work in track days, which allowed the use of the cars as they were intended...fact is, as soon as the racing days were over, Shelby moved right on to other projects and SAAC was the steward of the Ford Shelby name, whether you want to see it or not. Also, SAAC is not Kopec, it is the hundreds of folks running the show at a regional level and the thousands of members internationally. I'm not disputing that Shelby had the vision, the energy, the sales skills and all the other pieces which led to the incredible success of the Cobra and GT350 (along with a ton of "Total Performance" dollars, of course) or that he, in any way, doesn't own the Shelby name and brand. But, what he is doing to SAAC is just wrong, in my opinion. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From CoolVT at aol.com Thu May 22 16:23:14 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:23:14 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Interersting note on Shelby deal Message-ID: I wonder what this means?????? If you go to the following site _http://www.saac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=33_ (http://www.saac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=33) you will find a copy of Shelby's amended complaint recently filed. Go towards the end around page 18 and look for exhibit "A". In the exhibit look under "License Agreement" and then find the paragraph titled "Recitals". This appears to be a list of the many names that Shelby stakes a claim to.....names like Cobra, Shelby Cobra, Shelby Cobra 427, etc.. Well, lo and behold what name shows up toward the end of the list, but "Sunbeam Tiger" :-))) Now, can some legal type figure out what that means? Does it mean that while everyone was sleeping that Shelby's company staked claim to the name? Or is this something he obtained through his original deal with Rootes way back in the 60's? Mark L. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu May 22 16:27:11 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:27:11 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Interersting note on Shelby deal Message-ID: In a message dated 5/22/2008 3:24:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, CoolVT at aol.com writes: This appears to be a list of the many names that Shelby stakes a claim to.....names like Cobra, Shelby Cobra, Shelby Cobra 427, etc.. Well, lo and behold what name shows up toward the end of the list, but "Sunbeam Tiger" :-))) Gee, what a surprise... LOL **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From jteepen at usatoday.com Thu May 22 16:40:43 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:40:43 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger GT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230638442@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Mike: That may have been the Tiger (black) of Bill Atalla that was featured in British Car Magazine (which evolved into Classic Motorsports, published by Tiger owner Tim Suddard). Bill also had his Alpine (yellow) featured in British Car. BTW: The current issue of Classic Motorsports (#133, July 2008)has the beginning of the restoration of Tim's car. This will be an ongoing restoration story of his car, which I believe is now completed and on the road. Jere -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MWood24020 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 1:57 PM To: rootes1 at earthlink.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger GT In a message dated 5/22/2008 12:41:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rootes1 at earthlink.net writes: B9470207 LRXFE - GT - one of fifteen GTs Tigers produced. Norm, Wasn't there an article that featured that car in one of the Ford magazines about 10 years ago? I seem to remember the story pretty well...except for the date and the actual publication. Mike From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu May 22 16:58:42 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:58:42 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger GT Message-ID: Thanks, Jere. I seem to remember the GT as a red one, though...I believe it was out of Colorado or somewhere in the general region of the country. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From jteepen at usatoday.com Thu May 22 17:54:52 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 19:54:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Interersting note on Shelby deal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E9723063848E@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> I am certainly no legal type (quite the opposite...), but the Exhibit A document is dated from 1999. Could it be part of an internal agreement between Shelby and SAAC concerning the use of terms within the SAAC organization? "Sunbeam Tiger" does appear in quite a bit of the SAAC literature. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:23 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Interersting note on Shelby deal I wonder what this means?????? If you go to the following site _http://www.saac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=33_ (http://www.saac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=33) you will find a copy of Shelby's amended complaint recently filed. Go towards the end around page 18 and look for exhibit "A". In the exhibit look under "License Agreement" and then find the paragraph titled "Recitals". This appears to be a list of the many names that Shelby stakes a claim to.....names like Cobra, Shelby Cobra, Shelby Cobra 427, etc.. Well, lo and behold what name shows up toward the end of the list, but "Sunbeam Tiger" :-))) Now, can some legal type figure out what that means? Does it mean that while everyone was sleeping that Shelby's company staked claim to the name? Or is this something he obtained through his original deal with Rootes way back in the 60's? Mark L. From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com Thu May 22 18:39:35 2008 From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:39:35 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Shelby's claim to name Sunbeam Tiger Message-ID: >I wonder what this means?????? If you go to the following site >( http://www.saac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=33 ) >you will find a copy of Shelby's amended complaint recently filed. Go >towards the end around page 18 and look for exhibit "A". In the exhibit look >under "License Agreement" and then find the paragraph titled "Recitals". >This appears to be a list of the many names that Shelby stakes a claim >to.....names like Cobra, Shelby Cobra, Shelby Cobra 427, etc.. Well, lo and >behold what name shows up toward the end of the list, but "Sunbeam Tiger" :-))) >Now, can some legal type figure out what that means? Does it mean that >while everyone was sleeping that Shelby's company staked claim to the name? Or is >this something he obtained through his original deal with Rootes way back >in the 60's? No, that is not what seems to be going on. In fact, it could have been SAAC who put Sunbeam Tiger in the list. If you look at other sections in the License Agreement where it sets forth the requirements for SAAC to label its use of "Shelby" and other related names as owned by Shelby, it does NOT list Sunbeam Tiger on those lists. Sunbeam Tiger is only on the list in the recitals and the definition of "Licensed Properties." So,I believe SAAC wanted to have everything under the sun as a "Licensed Property" so Shelby could not come back at them and claim any additional rights for anything else. But, when it came down to the affirmative obligations of SAAC, the list was much smaller. ====================================================================== Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession. ====================================================================== From CoolVT at aol.com Thu May 22 18:54:19 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 20:54:19 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Shelby's claim to name Sunbeam Tiger Message-ID: Jay, Thanks so much for the explanation. I knew some legal mind would jump in there. Mark **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu May 22 19:05:53 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:05:53 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Shelby's claim to name Sunbeam Tiger Message-ID: Yep, that makes sense. Thanks, Jay. Now, I think it's time to go back into "lurk mode" on the Tiger list... Mike **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From Carmods at aol.com Fri May 23 07:10:20 2008 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 09:10:20 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Register your Shelby and your dislike for the man! Message-ID: Perhaps we should blame Shelby's slipping mind and his menopausal female business Manager. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From spmdr at juno.com Fri May 23 08:58:08 2008 From: spmdr at juno.com (spmdr at juno.com) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:58:08 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Drag Racing Tigers Message-ID: <20080523.075826.-2003009.3.spmdr@juno.com> By the way, there is a picture of Tom Duncan's Tiger on 2 wheels, on the CAT web site. http://www.catmbr.org look in: Photos etc / member photo page. http://www.catmbr.org/photmbrs.htm DW From tigerv8 at rogers.com Sat May 24 17:13:31 2008 From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 19:13:31 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes Message-ID: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> Hi, folks. It was a beautiful day here in Toronto, today. Not too hot, not too cool -- just right for an early summer cruise. So I thought I would take the Tiger out for an afternoon drive, and was really enjoying myself, right up to the moment that a carload of drunk teens almost killed me by pulling out into oncoming traffic (me) to try to pass a long line of traffic. With nowhere to go, my choice was either a head-on, or hard on the brakes and then off into the soft gravel shoulder at about 40 mph. The fact that I am typing this tells you how I chose. I managed to get her stopped, with some drama, and, thankfully, no apparent damage. I even had a microsecond to notice that the kids were laughing as the went by less than six inches to my left, and one looked to be threatening to throw a beer bottle at me. Although I feel like I want to kill them, I really hope they made it home alive, if you know what I mean. All seemed fine, so I pulled back onto the road to continue on my journey, only to hear a strange sound under load. At first, I thought it was still my heart trying to escape my chest, but it quickly became evident that it was coming from the engine, which had been performing flawlessly until that point. I'm hoping that you folks might be able to assist me in determining what could be wrong. Here are the symptoms: Under load, I hear a loud clattering noise that sounds like exceptionally loud pinging or a bad exhaust leak. In neutral, I can only replicate this for brief moments by hitting the throttle hard, but on the road it happens when I am accelerating even a little bit. There is no constant noise at idle, and I could detect no issues with the exhaust anywhere. The engine runs smoothly when not under load, and all gauges read normally. After looking for an obvious cause for awhile, I finally pulled off the air cleaner, and was able to consistently re-create the problem by blipping the throttle hard. What seems to be happening is that the car is spitting back through the carb under load, which it has never done before. Does this maybe sound like a timing issue or something similar? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Shaun From mrlau at charter.net Sat May 24 18:31:00 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 19:31:00 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes In-Reply-To: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: <20080525003134.XLNY3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> I can't imagine how this could relate to what happened to you but a noise under load or acceleration is usually a main bearing. I would call it a thud but it depends on how an individual describes it. Obviously you still have oil pressure or you would notice, but you can have pressure and still have a knocking main. I sure hope I am not correct and it is something else. Good luck. -- Bill -- Hi, folks. It was a beautiful day here in Toronto, today. Not too hot, not too cool -- just right for an early summer cruise. So I thought I would take the Tiger out for an afternoon drive, and was really enjoying myself, right up to the moment that a carload of drunk teens almost killed me by pulling out into oncoming traffic (me) to try to pass a long line of traffic. With nowhere to go, my choice was either a head-on, or hard on the brakes and then off into the soft gravel shoulder at about 40 mph. The fact that I am typing this tells you how I chose. I managed to get her stopped, with some drama, and, thankfully, no apparent damage. I even had a microsecond to notice that the kids were laughing as the went by less than six inches to my left, and one looked to be threatening to throw a beer bottle at me. Although I feel like I want to kill them, I really hope they made it home alive, if you know what I mean. All seemed fine, so I pulled back onto the road to continue on my journey, only to hear a strange sound under load. At first, I thought it was still my heart trying to escape my chest, but it quickly became evident that it was coming from the engine, which had been performing flawlessly until that point. I'm hoping that you folks might be able to assist me in determining what could be wrong. Here are the symptoms: Under load, I hear a loud clattering noise that sounds like exceptionally loud pinging or a bad exhaust leak. In neutral, I can only replicate this for brief moments by hitting the throttle hard, but on the road it happens when I am accelerating even a little bit. There is no constant noise at idle, and I could detect no issues with the exhaust anywhere. The engine runs smoothly when not under load, and all gauges read normally. After looking for an obvious cause for awhile, I finally pulled off the air cleaner, and was able to consistently re-create the problem by blipping the throttle hard. What seems to be happening is that the car is spitting back through the carb under load, which it has never done before. Does this maybe sound like a timing issue or something similar? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Shaun From atwittsend at verizon.net Sat May 24 20:09:09 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 19:09:09 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes References: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: <003601c8be0c$51c948d0$0202a8c0@student2> While you relate the spitting back through the carburetor, I'm wondering if the hard braking and inertia caused the engine to shift (possible broken motor mount) and the fan is hitting the steering rack (or something else). You might want to look for scuff marks anywhere in the area the fan rotates. Tom From atwittsend at verizon.net Sat May 24 20:09:09 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 19:09:09 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes References: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: <004001c8be0c$c006df60$0202a8c0@student2> While you relate the spitting back through the carburetor, I'm wondering if the hard braking and inertia caused the engine to shift (possible broken motor mount) and the fan is hitting the steering rack (or something else). You might want to look for scuff marks anywhere in the area the fan rotates. Tom From tsmit at shaw.ca Sat May 24 20:42:05 2008 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 20:42:05 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes In-Reply-To: <20080525003134.XLNY3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> References: <20080525003134.XLNY3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <4838D1FD.4090809@shaw.ca> Aside from Bill's theory, it might be an ignition crossfire. Check the routing of the plug wires. It's different from your description, but ignition arcing usually sounds like a sharp snapping sound. If a cylinder was misfiring with one where the intake valve was open, you could get carb backfires. The problem would be accompanied by the engine running rough under load. However, loud clattering sounds like bearings... it is possible to pull the oil pan and remove the main bearing caps (at least #2, 3, and 4) and check out the bearing shells. It's a pain to do but if you did catch that problem before you're left with a seized engine you'll save yourself a lot of cost in replacement parts and machining. Theo William Lau wrote: > I can't imagine how this could relate to what happened to you but a noise > under load or acceleration is usually a main bearing. I would call it a > thud but it depends on how an individual describes it. Obviously you still > have oil pressure or you would notice, but you can have pressure and still > have a knocking main. I sure hope I am not correct and it is something else. > Good luck. -- Bill -- From mrlau at charter.net Sat May 24 21:03:06 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 22:03:06 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes In-Reply-To: <4838D1FD.4090809@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20080525030340.BGSU3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> It might be possible to use a long rod and put your thumb over the rod and the end of your thumb in your ear. Put the rod on the block just above the oil pan and see if it is louder in one place or another. You can even tell which main is the problem (if it really is the problem) because the web of the block goes right to the bearings from the edge where the oil pan connects. This works for alternator bearings and water pumps too however you don't want a moving part somehow stuffing that rod through your head so it goes without saying "BE CAREFUL". -- Bill -- Aside from Bill's theory, it might be an ignition crossfire. Check the routing of the plug wires. It's different from your description, but ignition arcing usually sounds like a sharp snapping sound. If a cylinder was misfiring with one where the intake valve was open, you could get carb backfires. The problem would be accompanied by the engine running rough under load. However, loud clattering sounds like bearings... it is possible to pull the oil pan and remove the main bearing caps (at least #2, 3, and 4) and check out the bearing shells. It's a pain to do but if you did catch that problem before you're left with a seized engine you'll save yourself a lot of cost in replacement parts and machining. Theo William Lau wrote: > I can't imagine how this could relate to what happened to you but a noise > under load or acceleration is usually a main bearing. I would call it a > thud but it depends on how an individual describes it. Obviously you still > have oil pressure or you would notice, but you can have pressure and still > have a knocking main. I sure hope I am not correct and it is something else. > Good luck. -- Bill -- From mrlau at charter.net Sat May 24 21:03:06 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 22:03:06 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes In-Reply-To: <4838D1FD.4090809@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20080525030340.BDRY4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> It might be possible to use a long rod and put your thumb over the rod and the end of your thumb in your ear. Put the rod on the block just above the oil pan and see if it is louder in one place or another. You can even tell which main is the problem (if it really is the problem) because the web of the block goes right to the bearings from the edge where the oil pan connects. This works for alternator bearings and water pumps too however you don't want a moving part somehow stuffing that rod through your head so it goes without saying "BE CAREFUL". -- Bill -- Aside from Bill's theory, it might be an ignition crossfire. Check the routing of the plug wires. It's different from your description, but ignition arcing usually sounds like a sharp snapping sound. If a cylinder was misfiring with one where the intake valve was open, you could get carb backfires. The problem would be accompanied by the engine running rough under load. However, loud clattering sounds like bearings... it is possible to pull the oil pan and remove the main bearing caps (at least #2, 3, and 4) and check out the bearing shells. It's a pain to do but if you did catch that problem before you're left with a seized engine you'll save yourself a lot of cost in replacement parts and machining. Theo William Lau wrote: > I can't imagine how this could relate to what happened to you but a noise > under load or acceleration is usually a main bearing. I would call it a > thud but it depends on how an individual describes it. Obviously you still > have oil pressure or you would notice, but you can have pressure and still > have a knocking main. I sure hope I am not correct and it is something else. > Good luck. -- Bill -- From CoolVT at aol.com Sat May 24 21:04:05 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 23:04:05 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes Message-ID: If this problem is related to going off the road I wonder if the oil pan could have been dented and something in hitting in there? M **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From robin02 at mindspring.com Sat May 24 21:22:55 2008 From: robin02 at mindspring.com (RObin Young) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 23:22:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes In-Reply-To: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> References: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: <001e01c8be16$a00be070$6401a8c0@RobinLaptop> Shaun, it sounds like a kink in the exhaust to me. A restriction will act as you described. Robin Young From awtiger at cox.net Sat May 24 21:35:24 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (Andy Walker) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 22:35:24 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes In-Reply-To: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> References: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: Shaun: All I can say is that I feel your pain. I had some dipsh*t pull out in front of me several years ago while in the Tiger and, although I didn't hit him, I somehow ended up with a split oil line! I, too, would have cheerfully killed the guy!!! Now that things have calmed down a bit for you, let me throw my .02 worth in. When you went off the road under heavy braking, you most likely jarred something loose on the exhaust. I realize that you say there appears to be no exhaust issues. However, I've fought a slight exhaust leak on my Tiger for years and, even though the exhaust system looks to be in perfect condition, I keep having a recurring slight leak under a load at the donut between the downpipe and the manifold and it sounds like exactly what you've described. Chances are great that you probably dragged one of the exhaust pipes on something and it disturbed the system just enough to cause a minor leak. I know it's frustrating, but it should be fairly easy to fix. You say the car was running flawlessly before but that now your carb is spitting back at you under acceleration. This problem, if it is indeed a problem, is more than likely completely unrelated to the incident of today. When you say it's "spitting back," are you saying that the engine is coughing and sputtering under acceleration and it appears that the carb is blowing excess fuel back, or are you just seeing some fuel spray higher in the barrels? If it is the latter, chances are it's been doing that for a long time and you've never noticed it, especially if you don't run the car with the air cleaner off very often. Just out of curiosity, what kind of carb are you running? I've got a Holley 465 cfm carb on mine and I've had an intermittent problem with the squirter tube (for lack of a better term) on the front barrels coming loose, causing fuel to spray out all over the top of the barrel openings under acceleration. The bottom line is that I personally don't see how the two problems (the noise and the carb spit-back) can be related, given the situation. If your oil pan is dented as someone else suggested, you'd see the dent and/or the marks left by whatever dented it. I'd advise taking a good close look at the bottom of the car and see if you can detect any points of the car that may have come into contact with the ground. Again, I can't see how any internal engine damage could have been done, given what you've told us. I really think you're going to find that it's only a slight exhaust leak. Best of luck and take care. Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From patrick at patmania.ch Sat May 24 21:38:39 2008 From: patrick at patmania.ch (Patrick Helfer) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 05:38:39 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes In-Reply-To: <001e01c8be16$a00be070$6401a8c0@RobinLaptop> References: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> <001e01c8be16$a00be070$6401a8c0@RobinLaptop> Message-ID: <003d01c8be18$d34bec80$79e3c580$@ch> Did you check your engine mounts? If they're week your engine may have shifted while this brusk maneuver and damaged the manifold?!? If this noise would come from one of the cylinders you can check by measuring the temp at the exhaust manifold for each cylinder. This may be an indication which cylinder could be "backfiring", I think. Could also have shifted something with the valves... -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: tigers-bounces+patrick=patmania.ch at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+patrick=patmania.ch at autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von RObin Young Gesendet: Sonntag, 25. Mai 2008 05:23 An: tigers at autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Tigers] Engine Woes Shaun, it sounds like a kink in the exhaust to me. A restriction will act as you described. Robin Young You are subscribed as patrick at patmania.ch Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Sun May 25 02:09:09 2008 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:09:09 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes In-Reply-To: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> References: <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: HI Shaun, I guess thats why Agent Smart had a cannon on the front ! You say you went off into gravel and the noise is more prevalent when the car is moving. Is there any chance some of the gravel got inside the bellhousing ? regards Jeff In message <000001c8bdf3$c8cd00c0$6501a8c0 at main>, Shaun Laughy writes >Hi, folks. > >It was a beautiful day here in Toronto, today. Not too hot, not too >cool -- just right for an early summer cruise. So I thought I would >take the Tiger out for an afternoon drive, and was really enjoying >myself, right up to the moment that a carload of drunk teens almost >killed me by pulling out into oncoming traffic (me) to try to pass a >long line of traffic. With nowhere to go, my choice was either a >head-on, or hard on the brakes and then off into the soft gravel >shoulder at about 40 mph. The fact that I am typing this tells you how >I chose. I managed to get her stopped, with some drama, and, >thankfully, no apparent damage. I even had a microsecond to notice that >the kids were laughing as the went by less than six inches to my left, >and one looked to be threatening to throw a beer bottle at me. Although >I feel like I want to kill them, I really hope they made it home alive, >if you know what I mean. > >All seemed fine, so I pulled back onto the road to continue on my >journey, only to hear a strange sound under load. At first, I thought >it was still my heart trying to escape my chest, but it quickly became >evident that it was coming from the engine, which had been performing >flawlessly until that point. I'm hoping that you folks might be able to >assist me in determining what could be wrong. Here are the symptoms: > >Under load, I hear a loud clattering noise that sounds like >exceptionally loud pinging or a bad exhaust leak. In neutral, I can >only replicate this for brief moments by hitting the throttle hard, but >on the road it happens when I am accelerating even a little bit. There >is no constant noise at idle, and I could detect no issues with the >exhaust anywhere. The engine runs smoothly when not under load, and all >gauges read normally. > >After looking for an obvious cause for awhile, I finally pulled off the >air cleaner, and was able to consistently re-create the problem by >blipping the throttle hard. What seems to be happening is that the car >is spitting back through the carb under load, which it has never done >before. Does this maybe sound like a timing issue or something similar? > > >Any thoughts would be appreciated. > >Cheers, >Shaun >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive > -- Jeff Howarth From strombecker at telus.net Sun May 25 09:07:11 2008 From: strombecker at telus.net (TM) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 08:07:11 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger video Message-ID: <000b01c8be79$024b2ae0$4001a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Can anybody let me know where I can get a copy of the video they had on sports car revolution with the Sunbeam Tiger? Thanks Terry strombecker at telus.net B9471362 From mrlau at charter.net Sun May 25 12:06:31 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 13:06:31 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger Steering System Message-ID: <20080525180705.PKMC4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Does anyone have any experience with the new model steering system on this site? What does it cost, how well does it work and where is it available from? - Bill -- http://toyzjunkie.com/New_Tiger_Suspension.htm From todbrown at roadrunner.com Sun May 25 12:45:10 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 14:45:10 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes Message-ID: <4839B3B6.6050703@roadrunner.com> It occurs to me that, as someone else suggested, if you have a weak engine mount, something may have shifted and the distributor or the vacuum advance may have been whacked, thus throwing off the timing, especially under load. I would take a careful look at the distributor and verify that the advance mechanisms are working correctly. Get out your timing light and watch the timing marks under load. That might give you a clue. I agree with your initial thought, based on the engine behavior, that it sounds more likely to be ignition related. Tod B382002384LRXFE From slaughy at rogers.com Sun May 25 13:23:41 2008 From: slaughy at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 15:23:41 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Update Message-ID: <000201c8be9c$d7d14190$6501a8c0@main> Thanks again to everyone who offered suggestions. I spent quite a bit of time under the car today, and saw no evidence of damage of any kind. Exhaust looks fine for the entire length, and pressure was quite equal at each exhaust outlet. The motor mounts look solid, and there is no unusual movement of the drivetrain when I rev it. Under the car, there aren't any noticeable marks or scars anywhere that would indicate any serious contact of any kind. With regard to the gravel in the bellhousing suggestion, there doesn't seem to be any indication of this, and there are no noises in that area at all, no matter what I do. The only place there is any unusual noise at all is back through the carb under load. There also seems to be a bit of a stumble on abrupt acceleration, which wasn't there before. The more I look at it, the more I suspect a timing issue of some kind. I probably won't have an opportunity to do anything else today, but will get back at it next weekend. I will probably measure exhaust temps at each cylinder, pull each plug to inspect, and do a compression test while I am there. I will also check the timing, of course. Beyond that, I guess I would have to get at the timing cover and check that. I had suspected that it might be a vacuum advance issue, but the car has a Mallory Unilite electronic distributor that doesn't have vacuum advance. I'm still learning about this car as I have only owned it for about half a year, during which it was in storage most of the time. Back to the drawing board... Thanks again, all. Shaun From crbernardino at mac.com Sun May 25 14:13:30 2008 From: crbernardino at mac.com (Rob Bernardino) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 16:13:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 210 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The video with the blue Mark II? I can post it for download. Rob in CT > > > From: "TM" > Date: May 25, 2008 11:07:11 AM EDT > To: "Tiger Email List" > Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger video > > > Can anybody let me know where I can get a copy of the video they had > on sports > car revolution with the Sunbeam Tiger? > > Thanks Terry > strombecker at telus.net > B9471362 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tigers mailing list > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From michael.s.king at gmail.com Sun May 25 17:09:24 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 09:09:24 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger video In-Reply-To: <000b01c8be79$024b2ae0$4001a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> References: <000b01c8be79$024b2ae0$4001a8c0@your55e5f9e3d2> Message-ID: can someone convert it to avi or mpegf and we can all have a copy On 26/05/2008, TM wrote: > > Can anybody let me know where I can get a copy of the video they had on > sports > car revolution with the Sunbeam Tiger? > > Thanks Terry > strombecker at telus.net > B9471362 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as michael.s.king at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > -- Regards Michael King From maliburevue at yahoo.com Sun May 25 21:55:25 2008 From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 20:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <702014.77644.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Norm, Please check out Ebay item #27023981197 Sure looks like an Alger to me, per the front fender strut supports. The VIN and spec plate look funky, too. I thought the 67s had no spec plate and the VIN plate appears to be missing the chamfered lower left hand corner. And then there's the BS about the battery location. It's also missing the battery hold downs in the trunk and the spare tire is vertical. A restoration to preserve the "original manufacturing welds and geometry"? Oh, please! Gary From michael.s.king at gmail.com Sun May 25 22:07:36 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 14:07:36 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 In-Reply-To: <702014.77644.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <702014.77644.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: you reffering to this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1967-Sunbeam-Tiger_W0QQitemZ270239811973QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270239811973 & On 26/05/2008, Gary Crandall wrote: > > Norm, > > Please check out Ebay item #27023981197 > > Sure looks like an Alger to me, per the front fender strut supports. The > VIN and spec plate look funky, too. I thought the 67s had no spec plate and > the VIN plate appears to be missing the chamfered lower left hand corner. > And then there's the BS about the battery location. It's also missing the > battery hold downs in the trunk and the spare tire is vertical. A > restoration to preserve the "original manufacturing welds and geometry"? Oh, > please! > > Gary > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as michael.s.king at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > -- Regards Michael King From maliburevue at yahoo.com Sun May 25 22:20:51 2008 From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 21:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <468310.97319.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes. Also check out the starter relay on the firewill. Looks incorrect, too. michael king wrote: you reffering to this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1967-Sunbeam-Tiger_W0QQitemZ270239811973QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270239811973& On 26/05/2008, Gary Crandall wrote: Norm, Please check out Ebay item #27023981197 Sure looks like an Alger to me, per the front fender strut supports. The VIN and spec plate look funky, too. I thought the 67s had no spec plate and the VIN plate appears to be missing the chamfered lower left hand corner. And then there's the BS about the battery location. It's also missing the battery hold downs in the trunk and the spare tire is vertical. A restoration to preserve the "original manufacturing welds and geometry"? Oh, please! Gary You are subscribed as michael.s.king at gmail.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive -- Regards Michael King From tsmit at shaw.ca Sun May 25 22:26:43 2008 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 22:26:43 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 In-Reply-To: <702014.77644.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <702014.77644.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <483A3C03.7080303@shaw.ca> I sent the seller an email inviting him to read Norm's Alger pages and to change his listing... By the way the listing does say that the body was replaced with a "rust free" shell. Sounds like the seller isn't aware that that's not legal, and even if it was, the essential value of the car is erased. Even in Britain, where you are allowed to rebody a car, you're still supposed to use a new shell built for that purpose. I think that there are a couple of cars (late 60's Camaro?) where they've tooled up complete bodywork and you can pretty much build an air car now. Cheers, Theo From atwittsend at verizon.net Sun May 25 22:34:00 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 21:34:00 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 References: <468310.97319.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007001c8bee9$b8a4e1d0$0202a8c0@student2> It also claims to be a: >>>1967 Sunbeam Tiger #B382100395 the 395th out of 534 produced that >>>year.<<< But the grill, headlight rings, side trim, spare where the fuel pump should be, no battery hold down, - I'm sure I'm missing more, doesn't say 1967. Tom From 65tiger at comcast.net Sun May 25 22:49:17 2008 From: 65tiger at comcast.net (65tiger at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 04:49:17 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 Message-ID: <052620080449.19512.483A414D000D726D00004C3822007358340A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net> I was looking at this one that (did not) reached end of bidding. The last bid I saw was $6,000 I site says bidding ended, but it had over a day left. Then it says winning bid $1,000 I don't know bow e-bay works. ebay item 270239676705 did it really sell for 1,000? was it pulled? no picture of the VIN was posted, it seemed like it was trimmed out. E-Bay Tigers are crazy gambles... -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "michael king" > you reffering to this one? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1967-Sunbeam-Tiger_W0QQitemZ2702398 > 11973QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270239811973 > & > > > On 26/05/2008, Gary Crandall wrote: > > > > Norm, > > > > Please check out Ebay item #27023981197 > > > > Sure looks like an Alger to me, per the front fender strut supports. The > > VIN and spec plate look funky, too. I thought the 67s had no spec plate and > > the VIN plate appears to be missing the chamfered lower left hand corner. > > And then there's the BS about the battery location. It's also missing the > > battery hold downs in the trunk and the spare tire is vertical. A > > restoration to preserve the "original manufacturing welds and geometry"? Oh, > > please! > > > > Gary > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > You are subscribed as michael.s.king at gmail.com > > > > Tigers at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > > > > -- > Regards > > Michael King > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as 65tiger at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From cjcoffel at sonic.net Sun May 25 22:49:31 2008 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 21:49:31 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 References: <468310.97319.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <007001c8bee9$b8a4e1d0$0202a8c0@student2> Message-ID: <000001c8bef1$5a10def0$6401a8c0@pc1> I think Norm is familiar with the car. Chris http://www.rootes1.com/index.asp It's the fifth car listed under forgeries. From rande at thecia.net Mon May 26 07:04:33 2008 From: rande at thecia.net (rande) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 09:04:33 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay car ...395 Message-ID: <483ab561.2084.0@thecia.net> Tom, There's lots to this car that doesn't add up. To the guy's credit, he's not calling it a Mark II, but the VIN and the body features don't match. It could be an early '67 (Mk 1A) except that the VIN conflicts. If his restorer just swapped things from the rusted hulk, including the VIN plate, where'd the 1A stuff come from, or was it the owners preference to change to the 1A look, keep the side 'Sunbeam" emblems, ditch the rear 1/4 Rootes emblems, and use Mk 1 / 1A seats instead of the Mk 2 seats On the plus side, if the successful bidder knows what he's/she's getting, it's no worse than someone choosing a Factory Five replicar over a real Shelby Cobra because they can get into it for less money, if indeed the eventual high bid for this car stays in the mid-teens. Rande From dhhall at bellsouth.net Mon May 26 07:46:36 2008 From: dhhall at bellsouth.net (dhhall at bellsouth.net) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 13:46:36 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] HVLP sprayers Message-ID: <052620081346.24277.483ABF3C000493ED00005ED522230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net> Does anyone have any thoughts about the various setups to do HVLP spraying? I have a 60 gallon air compressor, with a plumbed garage, but am concerned about the risk of water in the line. I live in North Carolina, (and yes it is the humidity) but feel it might be better to get the compressor set up designed for the dry, high volume, low pressure air the HVLP needs. I would mainly like to do trim, gas tanks, frame items, etc. I've looked at Fuji systems, and know there are other systems available. I like the portability and flexibility, and there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in price. Anyone have any experience or thoughts? David From ladero59 at verizon.net Mon May 26 14:51:52 2008 From: ladero59 at verizon.net (LARRY ROMINGER) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:51:52 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Fuel pump pressure Message-ID: <000e01c8bf72$545654a0$0201a8c0@ToyForBoy> I am replacing an aftermarket fuel pump on the Tiger and need to know the appropriate pump pressure to use. I am feeding an Edelbrock 600 CFM on a 289. Any input would be helpful. Thanks, Larry Rominger B9473280 From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon May 26 15:09:06 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 22:09:06 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] fuel pump plumbing Message-ID: <39a841b0805261409h2db6c24el15d2c2e624335ef6@mail.gmail.com> since all you great minds are on the topic of replacement fuel pumps.... I am planing to replace the stock pump myself with a holley pump located in the vacant spare tire well. i have stock tanks with what i assume is the stock metal pipe exiting the car from the crossover pipe by the trunk lock and running forward under the trunk floor to the pump that sits just above the right muffler where it warms the fuel nicely! my plan - which i'd like to run by more experienced people - is to replace the metal pipe with a 6AN sized stainless braided hose to a bulkhead fitting in the tire well. inside, another short length of stainless braided hose to the fuel pump and then out again via another bulkhead fitting. then attach more stainless braided hose to the original metal fuel line just in front of the muffler with a regular hose clamp. does this sound ok from a safety perspective? my concern is having the fuel pump in the trunk when there is no physical separation between the trunk and the passenger compartment although it does seem moderately better than the existing arrangement. i'm not sure what the existing screw on fitting under the trunk lock is and what kind of hose end / adaptor i should get to screw directly onto that in place of the metal pipe. anyone know off hand? many thanks as always. -- beware of the left handed cat ... http://tigrrh.com | http://lefthandedcat.com | http://mytigerblog.com From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Mon May 26 15:14:43 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:14:43 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] fuel pump plumbing Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFF7@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> It's a 5/16 inch compression fitting. I cut the 5/16" pipe off about 3 inches away from the compression fitting, then soldered the stub to a piece of 3/8" line that I ran into the spare tire well, where it plumbs into a can-style fuel filter (with another compression fitting) and from there to a pump. Cheers, Theo From PhastPhill at aol.com Mon May 26 16:41:16 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 18:41:16 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 Message-ID: As the owner of B382100217 a real MK II, that's no MK II. Info all wrong. From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Mon May 26 19:34:47 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 18:34:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <483B6537.9040102@SoCal.rr.com> Hey, Phil, According to TBN (The Book of Norman) and his website, it isn't even a Tiger, but a forgery/Alpine Conversion. http://www.rootes1.com/index.asp Look under "Inspect some known FORGERIES", "Alger Alley 5", *E382100399* Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com PhastPhill at aol.com wrote: > As the owner of B382100217 a real MK II, that's no MK II. Info all wrong. From PhastPhill at aol.com Mon May 26 19:50:04 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 21:50:04 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Ebay - Tiger VIN - B382100395 Message-ID: I have e-mailed evil bay we will see what happens From mark.rense at ge.com Tue May 27 09:22:00 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:22:00 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Another Exhausting Tiger Question Message-ID: I have a pair of 289 Hi-Po cast exhaust headers in my possession, they offer higher flow than the original cast headers, potentially without the issues of using tubular headers. Has anyone adapted these to Tiger use? What is you experience? The car I am considering for this modification uses Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads. I will go on record again as not being a fan of tube headers on street cars, so no need for suggestions in that regard. Thanks, Bugz B382000991 B382001465 From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue May 27 09:37:16 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:37:16 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Another Exhausting Tiger Question Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFFE@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> If they don't fit then there's not much you can do without modifying one or both hard-to-replace pieces. What about using the Tri-Y castings that occasionally show up on eBay (and are probably also for sale at a reasonable price from others)? Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) Sent: May 27, 2008 9:22 AM To: Tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Another Exhausting Tiger Question I have a pair of 289 Hi-Po cast exhaust headers in my possession, they offer higher flow than the original cast headers, potentially without the issues of using tubular headers. Has anyone adapted these to Tiger use? What is you experience? The car I am considering for this modification uses Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads. I will go on record again as not being a fan of tube headers on street cars, so no need for suggestions in that regard. Thanks, Bugz B382000991 B382001465 You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Tue May 27 09:40:03 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:40:03 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] clutch choice Message-ID: <39a841b0805270840i22a41245y410a5439d1895416@mail.gmail.com> sorry - i've been a pain recently! i'm trying to decide between the following clutches for a 300hp 302, stock top loader and 2.88 posi rear: 1) centerforce II 2) centerforce dual friction 3) zoom competition 4) zoom high performance (kevlar) 5) hays street 6) mcleod StreetPro - zoom appears to be the cheapest and i heard the kevlar surface is better at resisting oil than organic discs. - some people on this list have spoken favorably of centerforce clutches. - mcleod seems to be the clutch of choice for circuit racers - a reasonable pedal effort would be a benefit. is there anything specific to the tiger (i.e. hydraulic operation / long first gear) that should affect my choice? i guess i should get a new flywheel, pilot bearing, rear crankshaft oil seal and throw out bearing while i'm doing the job? or maybe just have the flywheel skimmed. thanks for the continued support of everyone! -- beware of the left handed cat ... http://tigrrh.com From prbreuhan at hotmail.com Tue May 27 10:01:21 2008 From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:01:21 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Another Exhausting Tiger Question In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFFE@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5EFFE@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: One of the previous owners of my car cut into the trans tunnel/firewall...probably trying some monkey business like that with non-tiger exhaust manifolds. I don't see how HiPo exhaust manifolds can work. And my understanding is the Tri-Y castings don't do anything to enhance performance. Personally if I wasn't a big fan of headers (and my car came with headers) I would try Extrude Hone Abrasive Flow Machining on the stock Tiger manifolds... http://www.gethoned.com/index.php ...seems like it would have some benefits...but then again so would a nice set of headers... Paul > Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:37:16 -0600> From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com> To: mark.rense at ge.com; Tigers at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Another Exhausting Tiger Question> > If they don't fit then there's not much you can do without modifying one> or both hard-to-replace pieces. What about using the Tri-Y castings that> occasionally show up on eBay (and are probably also for sale at a> reasonable price from others)?> > Theo> > -----Original Message-----> > I have a pair of 289 Hi-Po cast exhaust headers in my possession, they> offer higher flow than the original cast headers, potentially without> the issues of using tubular headers. Has anyone adapted these to Tiger> use? What is you experience?> > The car I am considering for this modification uses Edelbrock Performer> RPM aluminum heads.> > I will go on record again as not being a fan of tube headers on street> cars, so no need for suggestions in that regard.> > Thanks,> > Bugz> B382000991> B382001465 _________________________________________________________________ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the im Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause From srekate at pacifier.com Tue May 27 10:15:54 2008 From: srekate at pacifier.com (Scott Rekate) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:15:54 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] HVLP sprayers Message-ID: <5BA78E9F-029A-4C5C-ADCB-7238F7C9A0B0@pacifier.com> David, You might be interested in this site for automotive refinishing insight. http://www.epa.gov/dfe/pubs/auto/spraygun_success/ Or this site for brand and system comparisons. Scroll down to "Knowledge Base Results". http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/search/search.cgi? Realm=All&Terms=hvlp&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 Good Luck, SR Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 13:46:36 +0000 From: dhhall at bellsouth.net Subject: [Tigers] HVLP sprayers To: tigers at autox.team.net Does anyone have any thoughts about the various setups to do HVLP spraying? I have a 60 gallon air compressor, with a plumbed garage, but am concerned about the risk of water in the line. I live in North Carolina, (and yes it is the humidity) but feel it might be better to get the compressor set up designed for the dry, high volume, low pressure air the HVLP needs. I would mainly like to do trim, gas tanks, frame items, etc. I've looked at Fuji systems, and know there are other systems available. I like the portability and flexibility, and there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in price. Anyone have any experience or thoughts? David From Sjhcobra1 at cs.com Tue May 27 10:25:31 2008 From: Sjhcobra1 at cs.com (Sjhcobra1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:25:31 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] clutch choice Message-ID: <39A0F05D.3A73C2BA.028BE4CD@cs.com> Owain: My opinion is to go with the Centerforce II. I have it in my 3 Tigers and have for over three years with great satisfaction. I drive my cars regularly, not infrequently. I had a Centerforce Dual Friction in a Shelby Cobra Replica that I owned for eight years and I would not recommend it for a street car. You pretty well have to dump it for a clean release. I had a Zoom clutch in a 1966 Caprice 396 back in the 70s and again would not recommend it for a street car. Too much pedal pressure to engage it. The CF II has great release and doesn't require tons of pressure to engage it. You'll be pleased. My 67 Tiger is a 301HP 289, My 66 is a 279 HP 260 and my 65 is a 189 HP 260. Steve Halbrook From Sjhcobra1 at cs.com Tue May 27 10:32:04 2008 From: Sjhcobra1 at cs.com (Sjhcobra1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:32:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Another Exhausting Tiger Question Message-ID: <5677CF08.2E2BC052.028BE4CD@cs.com> Mark: What is your objection to headers? I have the optional LAT-73 Sanderson headers on two Tigers and the Sunbeam Specialties headers on the third and they have been great. All are ceramic coated, look good and work well. My favorites are the Sandersons because of the integrated exhaust dumps. If you decide not to use the HiPo manifolds and decide to sell them let me know as I have a 65 K-Code Mustang that the original owner swapped out the exhaust manifolds and I'd like to go back to Stock. Thanks! Steve Halbrook From atwittsend at verizon.net Tue May 27 10:32:08 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 09:32:08 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Another Exhausting Tiger Question References: Message-ID: <008201c8c017$3500e110$0202a8c0@student2> Mark, I can't answer your question, but did want to encourage you about your choice for stock exhaust manifolds. I can't account for the flow of the manifolds that came on the Tiger, but a Mopar Magazine did a test on a mildly built 360. At 5,000+ RPM, $800, TTI headers added all of 10 HP verses stock manifolds - from a lowly 318 no less. At lower RPMs it was even less. Might I add that prized HiPo 340 cast manifolds only showed about a 4 HP gain. Again, this is no guarantee that the same holds true for a small block Ford, but I'd say the "possibility" exists. One thing that I'm curious about is the manifolds that ultimately found their way onto the Tiger were selected from what was available in (I assume to be) late 1963/early 1964. The small block can out in 1962 as a 221. So, I doubt there were too many variations available when George Boskoff made his selection. A lot of other manifolds have been cast since then. While most seem wider and thicker I'd be curious to see if better flowing manifolds (and better positioned outlets) would work from later cars. Who knows? I have used a die grinder to clean up manifolds as far as one can reach. I then took a cheap, thin drain snake, duct taped a piece of abrasive cloth in a rolled fashion to it at about mid-point. Chucked in a hand drill on one end, run through the manifold and guided by a gloved hand on the other end, I was able to manipulate the abrasive and I'm sure made some improvement. Anyway, these are just some ideas I've had over using headers and the typical issues that arise from using them. Tom Witt No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1469 - Release Date: 5/27/2008 1:25 PM From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue May 27 10:50:15 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:50:15 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Another Exhausting Tiger Question Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F002@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> I've seen cheap aftermarket headers (for Japanese cars) where the flange was so crooked and warped, that you pretty much had to cut some tubes, bolt the header to a junk head, and then reweld them, in order to get any chance of not having exhaust gasket leaks. I've also built several 4 cylinder headers using domestic V8 headers for source material (cut all the tubes apart and then select bends and straights from the pieces) and found that in many of those, the diamond where the four tubes join is formed by the guy shooting in the dark with his MIG gun - there were chunks of welding wire sticking out from the joint and there was extra metal protruding into the primaries. On the other hand, good quality headers (such as the Hooker Super Competition, back in the late 80's) had straight flanges and no garbage sticking out from the welds, and the headers lasted through several years of racing. They probably would have lasted longer if not for the occasional excursion into the weeds that would inevitably drag the exhaust through the dirt. I would expect that the headers currently carried by SS, and the Spintech merged collector headers (?), would have the quality you'd expect from a premium header, and should last a long time especially if you take the effort to get them ceramic coated. One of the side benefits from headers is supposedly reduced underhood temperatures. I'm not sure if that would still apply if you compared ceramic coated cast-iron manifolds against coated headers. Theo From crabco at shaw.ca Tue May 27 11:32:49 2008 From: crabco at shaw.ca (Tim Webster) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:32:49 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] radiator dimensions Message-ID: <000801c8c01f$af460560$6500a8c0@BigBlack> Fellow listers, I am embroiled in a showdown with the local rad man. I took him my original Tiger radiator in poor condition and asked if he could faithfully make a copy. No problem I was assured. For $500 I had it done. When I went install it I discovered it was way out of square. I took it back and had that fixed. On the next attempt it became obvious that the new rad was too big, in particular to deep. The bottom hose outlet sits firmly on the bellows and at that top it sits proud, so much so the shroud doesn't fit and the hood won't close. I need to know what the original outside dimensions (length x width) were before I take it back. Unfortunately I neglected to make a template of the original. Thanks, Tim 9470694 From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue May 27 11:53:09 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:53:09 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Newbie Message-ID: <7673485.43861211910789339.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web14-z02> I'm new and thought I'd introduce myself. I've been interested in becoming a Tiger owner for several years but for various reasons I've not gone all the way yet. I am looking for a car again and am located in SoCal. I've known about Alpine conversions for several years and have recently been in contact with Norm Miller. He has been very helpful sharing info about the couple VIN numbers I have managed to find for sale. Seems there are more available Algers than Tigers which is pretty disappointing. Last weekend there was a Vintage car show in San Diego county that I discovered because it was listed on the CAT website. After driving 260 miles there was not a single Tiger there. In fact only two Brit cars out of 200 or so. I'm interested in getting involved in any Tiger activities in the LA area so I can see some cars and meet some owners and pick their brains. Certainly interested in any available cars in SoCal. I've been enjoying reading your list for the last week. Steve R From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue May 27 12:11:18 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:11:18 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] radiator dimensions In-Reply-To: <000801c8c01f$af460560$6500a8c0@BigBlack> References: <000801c8c01f$af460560$6500a8c0@BigBlack> Message-ID: <483C4EC6.5000304@SoCal.rr.com> Tim, Read my article "Cool It, Buddy" on TigersUnited.com. It describes the dimensions of my hi-po 4 row radiator that does fit the stock tanks, mounting, and clearance in dimensions and count. http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Tim Webster wrote: > Fellow listers, > > I am embroiled in a showdown with the local rad man. I took him my original > Tiger radiator in poor condition and asked if he could faithfully make a copy. > No problem I was assured. For $500 I had it done. When I went install it I > discovered it was way out of square. I took it back and had that fixed. On the > next attempt it became obvious that the new rad was too big, in particular to > deep. The bottom hose outlet sits firmly on the bellows and at that top it > sits proud, so much so the shroud doesn't fit and the hood won't close. > > I need to know what the original outside dimensions (length x width) were > before I take it back. Unfortunately I neglected to make a template of the > original. > > Thanks, > > Tim > 9470694 From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue May 27 12:18:26 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 11:18:26 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Newbie In-Reply-To: <7673485.43861211910789339.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web14-z02> References: <7673485.43861211910789339.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web14-z02> Message-ID: <483C5072.1040200@SoCal.rr.com> Steve, from Steve, Plan on the Big Bear "Tigers United XXXI (31)" weekend, June 26-29, 2008. It's the best. Try making event hotel reservations. It's a great weekend. It is sponsored by CAT, and details on their website. http://www.catmbr.org/Events1.htm Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote: > <--- snip ---> > > I'm interested in getting involved in any Tiger activities in the LA area so I can see some cars and meet some owners and pick their brains. Certainly interested in any available cars in SoCal. I've been enjoying reading your list for the last week. > > Steve R From cmccann at lwpb.com Tue May 27 13:06:35 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 14:06:35 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Newbie Message-ID: <005501c8c02c$998e0a7d$0564a8c0@LWPB.local> Steve, are you looking for a poject car, driver, restored car? ...or?....This might give the listers a better idea of how to help find you a a car. Cullen B382001452 Subject: [Tigers] Newbie ......"I am looking for a car again and am located in SoCal. I've known about Alpine conversions for several years and have recently been in contact with Norm Miller....." From spmdr at juno.com Wed May 28 07:29:09 2008 From: spmdr at juno.com (spmdr at juno.com) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 06:29:09 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Clutch choice Message-ID: <20080528.063415.-1968645.1.spmdr@juno.com> One thing to keep an eye on when changing a Tiger clutch is the compressibility of the disc. If the disc has too much "wave" in the Marcel, it tends to not release well. ...you run out of travel in the hydraulic system. Compare your old disc to the new one for compressibility. DW From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Wed May 28 08:02:22 2008 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:02:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] clutch Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF099D9B0A@norn32.d30.intra> I am running a Centerforce Dual Friction and I am THRILLED with it. Running WELL over 400 HP and the clutch feels like a Honda. Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc. PH: 949-305-5393 Cell: 949-289-3357 FX: 425-955-6268 Email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal Email: timronak at cox.net If you received this message in error please inform the sender and delete the message. From achd73 at yahoo.com Wed May 28 13:21:23 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 12:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Clutch choice In-Reply-To: <20080528.063415.-1968645.1.spmdr@juno.com> Message-ID: <181489.74051.qm@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > One thing to keep an eye on when changing a Tiger clutch is > the > compressibility of the disc. > > If the disc has too much "wave" in the Marcel, it > tends to not release > well. > > ...you run out of travel in the hydraulic system. > > Compare your old disc to the new one for compressibility. > > DW > Ok, I will openly admit that Im a natural blonde and therfore prone to moments of not knowing where Im at, or even worse, where I should be, like the Drs. office or wondering what the "wave in the Marcel"is. SO, maybe someone would/could explain what the Marcel is- Im thinking I understand about the ammount of travel available for a stock syestem on a Tiger. Thanks ahead of time. regards, TonytheTiger From modtiger at comcast.net Wed May 28 19:06:29 2008 From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 18:06:29 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Clutch choice In-Reply-To: <181489.74051.qm@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20080528.063415.-1968645.1.spmdr@juno.com> <181489.74051.qm@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080528173025.05324db8@comcast.net> At 12:21 PM 5/28/2008, you wrote: > Ok, I will openly admit that Im a natural blonde and therfore > prone to moments of not knowing where Im at, or even worse, where I > should be, like the Drs. office or wondering what the "wave in the > Marcel"is. SO, maybe someone would/could explain what the Marcel > is- Im thinking I understand about the ammount of travel available > for a stock syestem on a Tiger. Thanks ahead of time. regards, TonytheTiger Tony, The Marcels are the spring steel pieces that connect the clutch disk friction media to the splined center hub assembly. The friction material is typically riveted to the Marcels form one side. They have a curved shape in the media area to allow a progressive engagement as the pressure plate clamps down on the disc. The amount of the curve determines how much distance is required to fully release the clutch. Too much and the physical limits of the Tiger hydraulic system require excessive pedal travel. Too little and the clutch will chatter on engagement. This is one of the reasons that a clutch designed for a Mustang will frequently not work successfully in a Tiger. A Mustang typically has more movement available at the fork. A bench test will tell you the release required by any clutch assembly. Using the flywheel and clutch assembly, they are mounted in a press that will allow you to measure the travel of the clutch fingers (throw-out bearing). Once the pressure plate touches the flywheel you start measuring. For Tiger applications, the disc should release cleanly between 5/16 and 3/8 (.312 to .375) of finger travel. Any less and it is likely to chatter. Any more, and you'll be pushing on the floorboard with the pedal. Tom Hall ModTiger Engineering LLC www.tigerengineering.net From drmayf at mayfco.com Wed May 28 23:36:26 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 22:36:26 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Small Decals Needed... Message-ID: <483E40DA.9040804@mayfco.com> I am looking for four small decals that can be put on the center hubs of some new wheels I have. The ones I need are the Tigers ones that went on the knockoff spinner on the lat 70 wheels. Only smaller. Anybody have any idea where I might either purchase or have some made up? mayf From awtiger at cox.net Thu May 29 07:08:33 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 9:08:33 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Small Decals Needed... In-Reply-To: <483E40DA.9040804@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <20080529090833.6BW8B.70089.imail@eastrmwml31> I think Rick at Sunbeam Specialties has them...at least, he used to carry them. Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX ---- drmayf wrote: > I am looking for four small decals that can be put on the center hubs of > some new wheels I have. The ones I need are the Tigers ones that went on > the knockoff spinner on the lat 70 wheels. Only smaller. Anybody have > any idea where I might either purchase or have some made up? > > mayf > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Thu May 29 11:09:26 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 12:09:26 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Fuel pump pressure In-Reply-To: <000e01c8bf72$545654a0$0201a8c0@ToyForBoy> References: <000e01c8bf72$545654a0$0201a8c0@ToyForBoy> Message-ID: <000001c8c1ae$c0014c80$74fcc04a@jerry> Hi Larry, According to Holley's DVD (P/N 36-378) the ideal pressure is 6#. You've seen my set up and I run 6.5# to 7# with a Mallory 140gph pump to a Holley 600DP seems to run OK. The DVD is good, but doesn't go very deep into the details that I was after, but still a good start for someone trying to tune a Holley. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of LARRY ROMINGER Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 3:52 PM To: Tiger List Subject: [Tigers] Fuel pump pressure I am replacing an aftermarket fuel pump on the Tiger and need to know the appropriate pump pressure to use. I am feeding an Edelbrock 600 CFM on a 289. Any input would be helpful. Thanks, Larry Rominger B9473280 You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From cars at wt-inc.com Thu May 29 11:31:40 2008 From: cars at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:31:40 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger Steering System In-Reply-To: <20080525180705.PKMC4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <20080525180705.PKMC4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <004201c8c1b1$db364c00$91a2e400$@com> Has there been any answer to this email. I'm kind of curious myself. Lynn -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Lau Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:07 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger Steering System Does anyone have any experience with the new model steering system on this site? What does it cost, how well does it work and where is it available from? - Bill -- http://toyzjunkie.com/New_Tiger_Suspension.htm You are subscribed as cars at wt-inc.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu May 29 11:34:47 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 10:34:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Small Decals Needed... In-Reply-To: <483E40DA.9040804@mayfco.com> References: <483E40DA.9040804@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <483EE937.8000306@SoCal.rr.com> Mayf, I got mine from Sunbeam Specialties for the screw-on (off) knock-offs that came with the American Silverstones I have. Used on the LAT knock-offs. I think I trimmed the outside to fit the flat space available on my wheels. For 10 pages of Tiger wheels, see: http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-wheel.asp Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com drmayf wrote: > I am looking for four small decals that can be put on the center hubs of > some new wheels I have. The ones I need are the Tigers ones that went on > the knockoff spinner on the lat 70 wheels. Only smaller. Anybody have > any idea where I might either purchase or have some made up? > > mayf From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu May 29 11:36:28 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:36:28 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger Steering System Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F014@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> I replied to Bill offline although I haven't seen it myself... It's Mike Hokanson's new front end. He and Bob showed it to great reviews at the last United. He's building them to order and yes, it does cost, but as with most things, you get what you pay for. Cheers, Theo http://toyzjunkie.com/New_Tiger_Suspension.htm -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Wall Sent: May 29, 2008 11:32 AM To: 'William Lau'; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] New Tiger Steering System Has there been any answer to this email. I'm kind of curious myself. Lynn From atwittsend at verizon.net Thu May 29 12:11:58 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:11:58 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger Steering System References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F014@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <008001c8c1b7$7c63cb70$0202a8c0@student2> Lynn, I saw the setup in Bud William's Tiger. Bud has a lift and we were all able to walk under it. Bud had nothing but great things to say about it. Mike (the builder) was there as well. Apparently this is not his main business so he had limited time to make them and at that time seemed to have a back list. From what he said the R&D and build time relate to the cost. When I was at the Knott's fabulous Ford show this year there were two Sunbeams. One was an Alger. Sad to say it was so nice I hate using what is a derogatory term for it. Anyway, the guy had modified a Volvo 144 crossmember into the car. He claimed it also correct typical Tiger issues and offered larger front brakes. I find that ironic because I use to have a Volvo 544 and when I saw my Tiger crossmember for the first time they looked nearly identical. Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 5/29/2008 7:27 AM From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Thu May 29 12:16:28 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 13:16:28 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] HVLP sprayers In-Reply-To: <052620081346.24277.483ABF3C000493ED00005ED522230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net> References: <052620081346.24277.483ABF3C000493ED00005ED522230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net> Message-ID: <000101c8c1b8$1d2c60d0$74fcc04a@jerry> David, I too painted in a very humid area (East Texas). I used a very cheap 20 oz. HVLP ($19.99) from Harbor Fright and one of there Air filter/regulator units ($19.99) and a small plastic water/filter ($5.00) that screws onto the inlet of the spray gun. I had no problems with water, when I painted the entire car. The little plastic filter that screws to the bottom of the gun I would replace each day just to be on the safe side. My compressor is a 25gal Craftsman (7.0cfm @90psi) and it was sufficient to keep up with the spraying. It has a water separator on it also, so the three together worked for me. Be careful not to get a gun that requires more airflow than the compressor can deliver. It is my OPINION that the spraying technique you use is far more important than buying a $500.00 spray gun thinking that the highest price gun will take car of any shortcomings a painter will have. Practice, practice, practice. Watch professionals do it. On another note. If you plan on spraying a basecoat clearcoat paint job (recommended) be very careful about the clearcoat as it has isocyanides in it that are VERY bad for your health. I modified a Scuba tank so I could breath clean air during the spraying. The Sep. 2007 issue of Auto Restorer Magazine did a 3 page article on how I did it. I also grounded the spray gun compressor and car during the spraying. I will also say without ANY reservations that this was my first paint job and it was my LAST paint job. Ha. It is defiantly an art. Best of luck Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of dhhall at bellsouth.net Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:47 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] HVLP sprayers Does anyone have any thoughts about the various setups to do HVLP spraying? I have a 60 gallon air compressor, with a plumbed garage, but am concerned about the risk of water in the line. I live in North Carolina, (and yes it is the humidity) but feel it might be better to get the compressor set up designed for the dry, high volume, low pressure air the HVLP needs. I would mainly like to do trim, gas tanks, frame items, etc. I've looked at Fuji systems, and know there are other systems available. I like the portability and flexibility, and there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in price. Anyone have any experience or thoughts? David You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sralsten at ca.rr.com Thu May 29 12:32:44 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 14:32:44 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Llooking at a car/restoration and parts $$$ Message-ID: <27435718.409721212085964769.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web20-z02> I'm not sure how this list works as far as responding to things. I posted my Newbie note recently and got several responses. I think I sent a thanks to each, but if not I do so now. Several suggested attending at Big Bear which was already in my plans. I am going to take a look at a car in N LA County fairly soon, before having the chance to meet people at Big Bear. If there is an owner in the area that could manage a trip to Palmdale to help me make a decision please let me know. I have virtually no experience with Tigers yet except the things I've read on the net and in my first two books for the past 2 weeks. Is there anyplace on the net that I can find prices either firm or approximate for parts or restoration or repair. For example I know the car I'm going to see has a lousy wood dash. How much to replace or refinish ? How much to rebuild a Ford V8 ? How much to replace a stock carb ? How much to replace clutch or transmission ? It would be very helpful to have a better feel than I now have for what various defects will cost. Thanks in advance Steve From hokey at oasisol.com Thu May 29 14:50:39 2008 From: hokey at oasisol.com (Mike Hokanson) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 13:50:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Front Suspension - Part I Message-ID: <006d01c8c1cd$a8000850$49320a0a@iggy> Part I of reply to the list - Sent it once already but it didn't show up so maybe it was too long. The front suspension topic has risen again and my inbox has started to swell a little bit, so I thought I'd pipe up and let people know what's going on. I've been busy getting crossmembers built, but at the same time I've had a large list of things that needed to get done this spring as far as house projects, shop upgrades, etc. The suspension design has pretty much settled in a little bit and only minor changes are being made at this point. Out of all the crossmembers I've built, only two of them are identical. The rest are different in track width, steering rack placement and brake/spindle package. They are pretty much made to order, and that is largely due to how the Tiger owner wants to modify his car as far as brakes, spindles, wheel offset, etc. But one item that most people overlook is the motor placement in the car, and that makes a big difference. When the steering rack is moved back over 5" in the car and is positioned between the back side of the balancer and the front face of the pan, not all crossmembers would be interchangeable. Believe it or not, I have a large disparity in where the motor sits in many Tigers. Some people have swapped motor mounts; some motor mounts currently available do not fit the way an original setup did. Some cars have had new front ends grafted on, and so on (frame lugs moved, changed or modified). I've had measurements from one owner to another differ well in excess of 7/8". Something to think about. From hokey at oasisol.com Thu May 29 15:01:39 2008 From: hokey at oasisol.com (Mike Hokanson) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 14:01:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Front Suspension Part II Message-ID: <008001c8c1cf$31536880$49320a0a@iggy> List reply Part II - The setup in Bud's car in Los Angeles is the second unit I built, and was somewhat similar to the original unit I built for Dad's car back in 2006. But many things changed after his was built. The structure is shorter, shocks moved, different control arms, simple/quick adjustability. I have the first original crossmember setup at the shop now and is getting ready to go in a Tiger in Reno when I'm finished with a couple of updates. >From #3 on, they are very similar. Info on that can be viewed on the website. The setups are already shipped or delivered to Los Angeles, Denver, Atlanta, Idaho, Canada, etc. I've had an unfortunate incident with UPS on a unit that was crated and shipped. It left here in a custom-built wood crate, but was delivered in an undersize cardboard box with the parts tossed in it with parts extending beyond the container. Not a good thing, and the results were disturbing. Needs to be re-powder coated, not sure if the unit was damaged/deformed or not as it has not been installed in a chassis yet. Getting the insurance settled with UPS has been a nightmare. The only vision I have is a big forklift running over it. I'm looking at doing some other minor changes to the structure, but mostly in material selection and condensing the construction to reduce the welding and fabrication time. I'm delivering another completed setup in a few weeks and then I'll start another. The "wish-list" is very long, and I've kept everyone's e-mail and contact info who showed serious interest when the project started (Buck - your e-mail keeps bouncing back as undeliverable). I'm not taking any more commitments at this time until I get finished with the units I've already got scheduled. I do not have plans to be in Big Bear at Tigers United this year. I've got too much to do and other places that I'm scheduled to be. If anyone has other questions, feel free to contact me via e-mail or on the list. Mike Hokanson Toyzjunkie.com From michael.s.king at gmail.com Thu May 29 18:00:09 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:00:09 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] 289 tiger dragging Message-ID: Anyone know who this is? http://videos.streetfire.net/video/stock-289-sunbeam-tiger_90574.htm -- Regards Michael King From tigerlat70 at comcast.net Thu May 29 19:26:39 2008 From: tigerlat70 at comcast.net (Steve Coleman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 18:26:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Gas Scam Message-ID: <020501c8c1f4$35f74e40$b770d262@stevesdell> SOMETHING TO WATCH OUT FOR ! Don't know if this is true or not but it seems easy enough to check out. Thought I would pass it on. Toni This is a true story, so read it carefully. On April 24, 2008, I stopped at a Kangaroo BP gas station, located at 1325 Main Street, Cartersville, GA. My truck's gas gauge was on 1/4 of a tank. I use the Mid-grade, which was priced at $3.71 per gallon. When my > tank is at this point, it takes some where around 14 gallon's to fill it up. When the pump showed 14 gallons had been pumped I began to slow it down, then to my surprise it went to 15, then 16 .I even looked under my truck to see if it was being spilled. It was not. Then it showed 17 gallons had been pumped. It stopped at almost 18 gallons. This was very strange to me, since my truck has only an 18 gallon ta nk. I went on my way a little confused, then on the evening news I heard a re- port that 1 out of 4 gas stations Had calibrated their pumps to show more gas had been pumped than a person actually got. Here is how to check a pump to see if you are getting the right Amount: Whichever grade you are using, put EXACTLY 10 GALLONS in your tank, then look at the dollar amount. If the dollar amount is not EXACTLY 10 times the price of the fuel you have chosen, then the pumps are rigged. In my case as I said the mid- grade was $3.71.9 per gallon, my dollar amount for 10 gallons should have been $37.19. If I had only check the pump. It doesn't matter where you pump gas, please check the 10 gallon price. If you do find a station that is cheating, contact your State Agriculture Department, and direct your comments to The Commissioner or Director. From chris at cthompson.net Thu May 29 20:07:26 2008 From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:07:26 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Gas Scam In-Reply-To: <020501c8c1f4$35f74e40$b770d262@stevesdell> References: <020501c8c1f4$35f74e40$b770d262@stevesdell> Message-ID: <483F615E.2010604@cthompson.net> yep - easy enough to check out - http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/cheating.asp Steve Coleman wrote: > SOMETHING TO WATCH OUT FOR ! > > Don't know if this is true or not but it seems easy enough to check out. > Thought I would pass it on. From 65tiger at comcast.net Thu May 29 20:37:07 2008 From: 65tiger at comcast.net (65tiger at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 02:37:07 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Gas Scam Message-ID: <053020080237.16743.483F6853000B45180000416722007456720A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net> Back in the days when gas was a mere $3 per gallon I saw people turning the pump off and holding the hose up as high as possible and holding the nozzle open, trying to get that pint or more of gas out of the hose. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Chris Thompson > yep - easy enough to check out - > http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/cheating.asp > > Steve Coleman wrote: > > SOMETHING TO WATCH OUT FOR ! > > > > Don't know if this is true or not but it seems easy enough to check out. > > Thought I would pass it on. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as 65tiger at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From tigerlat70 at comcast.net Thu May 29 21:32:30 2008 From: tigerlat70 at comcast.net (Steve Coleman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 20:32:30 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] ATM Scam at gas stations in Cali and other states Message-ID: <020801c8c205$ca86b530$b770d262@stevesdell> This has been going on, making me nervous at atm's http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_9394029 Shopping market scam http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_9312234 From achd73 at yahoo.com Thu May 29 21:54:49 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 20:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] draing the hose In-Reply-To: <053020080237.16743.483F6853000B45180000416722007456720A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <470476.51627.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ive been draining the hose since the mid 70s. When I bought my first Harley. You always turned the gas off and then lifted the hose so all the gas went into the tank(s) and didn't drip onto the paint job. I got in the habit I guess and still stop the pump and drain whatever it allows into my car. The bad thing is the new pumps shut off at the handle as opposed to inside the controller. BUT not everywhere. I made a trip to Tx. last spring and was at a station in Arkansas and no matter what, it just kept running out. I finally gave up as it was cold that night and even free gas by the ounce is only worth standing in the cold for a few minutes. TTT WEll that was last year but at $4 plus a gallon I might look for a jacket! From CoolVT at aol.com Fri May 30 07:18:37 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:18:37 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts Message-ID: With a new set of motor mounts in hand and my engine on a stand I decided to do some measuring to be sure the new mounts would not be reversed. I started with the original mounts still on the engine....the one marked "LH" was on the left side-passenger side. The "RH" was on the right side. All of the measurements were from the center of the large bolt on the motor mount to the facing of the bellhousing. These are rough because there is a little slop in the some of the holes where the mount bolts to the engine. Original set up: right side 12.375" left side 12.375" I then reversed the mounts to the opposite sides and got; right side 12.25" left side 12.00" Using the new mounts: First measurement: right side 12.75" left side 12.50" New mounts reversed: right side 12.375" left side 12.25" I repeated all of the above on an engine dolly drilled for a Ford small block and got essentially the same results. So on my engine and my mounts I came to this conclusion.....by swapping the original mounts to opposite sides, the engine would have been pushed rearward by anywhere from 0.0" -0.375" . Not the great difference that I expected by someone mistakenly installing the mounts incorrectly. The difference was so slight that it wouldn't surprise me that some of the mounts could have originally come from the factory in a reversed position or with 2 lefts or 2 rights. "Hey Joe, I ran out of left side mounts. What do I do?" "Just use right side mounts. They're all the same anyway." And to add a little to the confusion....the mounting holes on the left and right side the engine are in different positions. The mounting holes on the left side are more rearward by approximately 1.25". Mark L **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Fri May 30 07:26:55 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 07:26:55 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F016@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Hi Mark, If you're measuring less distance from the bellhousing flange to the engine mount bolt, it would move the engine forwards, not rearwards. Remember that the engine is going to move, not the frame. It looks to me like the original setup you had with the old mounts, was correct, positioning the engine to the rear (compared to the other alternative). With the new mounts, you should still use that arrangement (i.e. your "first measurement" unless you run into problems with carb clearance at the firewall or transmission mount location. Maximizing the clearance between the crank pulley and the rack has maintenance benefits as well as preventing damage to the rack... My Tiger had a too-long pulley on it when I got it, and it sawed two slots into the rack tube. Theo From CoolVT at aol.com Fri May 30 08:24:54 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:24:54 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts Message-ID: Theo, That's what I'm shooting for...the shortest distance from the mount bolt to the bellhousing. To keep the engine rearward as far as possible. Maybe I was confusing on that idea. M **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From TIGEROOTES at aol.com Fri May 30 08:33:02 2008 From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:33:02 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 217 Message-ID: Mike Hokanson wrote: > I've had an unfortunate incident with UPS on a unit that > was crated and shipped. It left here in a custom-built wood crate, but was > delivered in an undersize cardboard box with the parts tossed in it with > parts > extending beyond the container. Not a good thing, and the results were > disturbing. Getting the insurance settled with UPS has been a nightmare. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------- > Mike, > I also had a frustrating episode with UPS a few years back after they > delivered an empty cardboard tube to me. The steering column sent to me for > rebuilding was packaged by Mailboxes Etc and somehow it burst out of the tube > while enroute to me. UPS blamed Mailboxes Etc and they blamed UPS and my customer could not get any > action from either business. Funny thing, is we discovered UPS had just > completed the purchase of Mailboxes Etc and when we brought that to their > attention, they finally decided to pay for the loss of the steering column. > > Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club Seattle ************** Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4& ?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From racetig at verizon.net Fri May 30 08:56:38 2008 From: racetig at verizon.net (Rob) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 09:56:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race Message-ID: <10214631.9135461212159398708.JavaMail.root@vms229.mailsrvcs.net> That's my car at Ennis, Texas during a timing run. Note that I jumped the light cuz I knew that dude with the Mopar was fast... I have no idea who posted it but it's always nice to see your car show up on the web. Rob Roy Rob From CoolVT at aol.com Fri May 30 11:00:05 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 13:00:05 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race Message-ID: Rob, Curious, what was in the Mopar if you know? M **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From csx2282 at sonic.net Fri May 30 11:44:31 2008 From: csx2282 at sonic.net (All) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:44:31 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Girling Brake Reservoir Diaphrams Message-ID: <004301c8c27c$d151c770$220110ac@ALLOFUS> I just called my favorite Girling brake parts supplier to order some brake reservoir diaphragms and leaned that they have been on back order for six months. These are the bellows shaped seals that go under the reservoir caps to seal out air and moisture. Anyone have another sources for these? TIA Roland From csx2282 at sonic.net Fri May 30 11:52:31 2008 From: csx2282 at sonic.net (All) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:52:31 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Girling Brake Reservoir Diaphrams Message-ID: <005001c8c27d$ef756d50$220110ac@ALLOFUS> Ooops, forgot to mention that Dave Bean Engineering was the supplier I called ----- Original Message ----- From: All To: tigers ; BC Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:44 AM Subject: Girling Brake Reservoir Diaphrams I just called my favorite Girling brake parts supplier to order some brake reservoir diaphragms and leaned that they have been on back order for six months. These are the bellows shaped seals that go under the reservoir caps to seal out air and moisture. Anyone have another sources for these? TIA Roland From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Fri May 30 12:10:47 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 13:10:47 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c8c280$7c0df0f0$74fcc04a@jerry> Hey Rob wasn't it a slant 6? Ha,just have'n fun. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 12:00 PM To: racetig at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race Rob, Curious, what was in the Mopar if you know? M **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri May 30 12:31:47 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:31:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Girling Brake Diaphragms In-Reply-To: <005001c8c27d$ef756d50$220110ac@ALLOFUS> References: <005001c8c27d$ef756d50$220110ac@ALLOFUS> Message-ID: <48404813.5030601@SoCal.rr.com> Roland, Have you tried Sunbeam Specialties? Look under Brake & Hydraulics, Tiger Repair Kits, HK52, $12.50 http://www.rootes.com/ Phone, or e-mail them for contents clarification. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Roland wrote: > Ooops, forgot to mention that Dave Bean Engineering was the supplier I called > ----- Original Message ----- > From: All > To: tigers ; BC > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:44 AM > Subject: Girling Brake Reservoir Diaphrams > > > I just called my favorite Girling brake parts supplier to order some brake > reservoir diaphragms and leaned that they have been on back order for six > months. These are the bellows shaped seals that go under the reservoir caps > to seal out air and moisture. Anyone have another sources for these? > > TIA > > Roland > _______________________________________________ From prbreuhan at hotmail.com Fri May 30 13:05:44 2008 From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 15:05:44 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race In-Reply-To: <000001c8c280$7c0df0f0$74fcc04a@jerry> References: <000001c8c280$7c0df0f0$74fcc04a@jerry> Message-ID: You laugh, but a friend of mine had a Dodge Swinger with a slant 6 that ran 12.7-12.8 as his daily driver in the 1980s...faster than my 383 Plymouth at 13.20 Turbo slant 6 - 1/4mile pass...under 10seconds... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckoya9wcTKA World's Fastest 4 Cylinder Dodge... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Gdm_e_hxs Looked like a 1964 Dodge Polara to me in the picture...Ramcharger style stripes on the roof?...maybe a 426 Max Wedge car... Paul > From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net> To: CoolVT at aol.com; racetig at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 13:10:47 -0500> Subject: Re: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race> > Hey Rob wasn't it a slant 6? > > Ha,just have'n fun.> > Jerry> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race> > Rob,> Curious, what was in the Mopar if you know?> M _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_family_safety_052008 From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Fri May 30 13:39:35 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:39:35 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race In-Reply-To: References: <000001c8c280$7c0df0f0$74fcc04a@jerry> Message-ID: <000901c8c28c$e42be0f0$74fcc04a@jerry> Well, I have mud dripping off my face!!! Ha. Jerry _____ From: Paul R. Breuhan [mailto:prbreuhan at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 2:06 PM To: Jerry; coolvt at aol.com; racetig at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race You laugh, but a friend of mine had a Dodge Swinger with a slant 6 that ran 12.7-12.8 as his daily driver in the 1980s...faster than my 383 Plymouth at 13.20 Turbo slant 6 - 1/4mile pass...under 10seconds... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckoya9wcTKA World's Fastest 4 Cylinder Dodge... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Gdm_e_hxs Looked like a 1964 Dodge Polara to me in the picture...Ramcharger style stripes on the roof?...maybe a 426 Max Wedge car... Paul > From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net > To: CoolVT at aol.com; racetig at verizon.net; tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 13:10:47 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race > > Hey Rob wasn't it a slant 6? > > Ha,just have'n fun. > > Jerry > > Subject: Re: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race > > Rob, > Curious, what was in the Mopar if you know? > M _____ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. Help protect your kids. From mrlau at charter.net Fri May 30 13:43:41 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:43:41 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race In-Reply-To: <10214631.9135461212159398708.JavaMail.root@vms229.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <20080530194424.WEYR3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Rob, If you turn in the 13,s with a 289 Tiger -------- your car is fast. Just the tire size difference and room for more engine is huge. -- Bill -- That's my car at Ennis, Texas during a timing run. Note that I jumped the light cuz I knew that dude with the Mopar was fast... I have no idea who posted it but it's always nice to see your car show up on the web. Rob Roy Rob _______________________________________________ From CoolVT at aol.com Fri May 30 14:30:49 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:30:49 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 289 Tiger Drag Race Message-ID: They even make a "high rise" intake for the slant 6. Well, actually it's not high rise, but long length. It goes off to the side rather than up. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From congodrc at gmail.com Fri May 30 15:56:51 2008 From: congodrc at gmail.com (rp) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 22:56:51 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Hardtop for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001d01c8c2a0$1b0b4b20$6400a8c0@D9H6BW61> Found a hardtop for sale: Original Hardtop for a British Sunbeam Tiger or Series 3-5 Alpine car22 May 2008 ... This is an original hardtop for a British sportscar called a Sunbeam Tiger, but it will also fit a Sunbeam Alpine Series 3, 4 or 5. ... saltlakecity.craigslist.org/pts/691622105.html From jteepen at usatoday.com Fri May 30 16:47:01 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 18:47:01 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Girling Brake Reservoir Diaphrams In-Reply-To: <005001c8c27d$ef756d50$220110ac@ALLOFUS> Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230968A0D@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Roland: If you are a member of CAT (www.catmbr.org), we currently have them in stock. The pricing is available on the website and you must be a member of CAT to buy parts from CAT Parts. Jere Teepen -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of All Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:53 AM To: tigers; BC Subject: Re: [Tigers] Girling Brake Reservoir Diaphrams Ooops, forgot to mention that Dave Bean Engineering was the supplier I called ----- Original Message ----- From: All To: tigers ; BC Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:44 AM Subject: Girling Brake Reservoir Diaphrams I just called my favorite Girling brake parts supplier to order some brake reservoir diaphragms and leaned that they have been on back order for six months. These are the bellows shaped seals that go under the reservoir caps to seal out air and moisture. Anyone have another sources for these? TIA Roland From choffman9 at cinci.rr.com Sat May 31 05:12:12 2008 From: choffman9 at cinci.rr.com (Curt) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 07:12:12 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] wheels/tires References: <000c01c8b8e2$929272d0$6700a8c0@chesapeake4> Message-ID: <001901c8c30f$2d56d410$0101a8c0@HomeComputer> I had the same issue with my old Panasports. I was always ending up with the center hub getting pushed out as I tightened down the lugs. I guess they make the wheels to fit anything so they make the center hole big enough to fit larger hubs. It was a pain. Curt Hoffman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clyde McLaughlin" To: Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:27 AM Subject: [Tigers] wheels/tires >I have original Minilites, 13" on my Tiger, but when they are removed >and > reinstalled it is always PAIN to get them to run true, I have to keep > loosening/adjusting tightening to get them centered -- I guess none of > these > aftermarket wheels were hub centric, any body else with this > issue....wheels > are perfectly straight and have toyo RA-1 tires, probably one of the last > good 13" tires left, not long on wear, but STICK, Clyde From CoolVT at aol.com Sat May 31 07:47:24 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 09:47:24 EDT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: Not mine...just came across ad. M _http://sacramento.craigslist.org/car/701264381.html_ (http://sacramento.craigslist.org/car/701264381.html) **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From alittlemoreink at hotmail.com Sat May 31 11:21:47 2008 From: alittlemoreink at hotmail.com (John Crawley) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 17:21:47 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Draining the hose Message-ID: Hi: Once when I was a young guy I drove an Austin Healey Sprite (bought it new and still have it). I ran out of gas way out in the boonies in the middle of the night because the gas gauge was broken. I pushed the car to a closed gas station beside the road and drained the pump hoses. Off I went to the next town and did the same thing. I made it home over a hundred miles from station to station  towns were about 7 miles apart in those days. When I went to fill up the next day the tank was almost full. Ahh the days of our youth . . . Jc _________________________________________________________________ From tigerv8 at rogers.com Sat May 31 12:14:04 2008 From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 14:14:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two Message-ID: <000001c8c34a$1cfabdd0$6501a8c0@main> Hi, folks. I finally got an opportunity to check the timing on the car today, but not much else as we are on out way out to a friend's birthday celebration. The manual indicates 6 degrees BTDC, with a notation that it is acceptable to go an additional 5 degrees to deal with altitude, and to optimize performance and fuel economy. I have also seen elsewhere that 6-8 degrees is normal. So, I was a bit surprised to see 25 degrees! Does this seem appropriate? I tried retarding the timing down to 10 degrees to see if that helped, but the same problem occurred (harsh sound from the induction system under load), and the engine really didn't seem to run as well as with the initial setting. I hope to get some more time to work with this later or tomorrow.. Thanks, Shaun From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Sat May 31 13:36:00 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 12:36:00 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two In-Reply-To: <000001c8c34a$1cfabdd0$6501a8c0@main> References: <000001c8c34a$1cfabdd0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: <4841A8A0.1080204@SoCal.rr.com> Shaun, You are mostly correct. According to the "Workshop Manual", General Data, 6: B.T.D.C. for "static timing". Check out TigersUnited.com Workshop Manual for all specs. http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/wsm16.asp "Dwell" is about 26-28.5 degrees. Manual list 2 distributors. 1 for Mk I and 1 for Mk II, with different vacuum advance specs. I had my distributor springs changed (kit available) to tune the "curve" with an old fashioned distributor machine. Runs great. Induction sounds do NOT sound like ignition advance problems. Perhaps an air leak? Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Shaun Laughy wrote: > Hi, folks. > > I finally got an opportunity to check the timing on the car today, but > not much else as we are on out way out to a friend's birthday > celebration. The manual indicates 6 degrees BTDC, with a notation that > it is acceptable to go an additional 5 degrees to deal with altitude, > and to optimize performance and fuel economy. I have also seen > elsewhere that 6-8 degrees is normal. So, I was a bit surprised to see > 25 degrees! Does this seem appropriate? I tried retarding the timing > down to 10 degrees to see if that helped, but the same problem occurred > (harsh sound from the induction system under load), and the engine > really didn't seem to run as well as with the initial setting. > > I hope to get some more time to work with this later or tomorrow.. > > Thanks, > Shaun From shutchin at netjets.com Sat May 31 13:40:11 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 15:40:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two Message-ID: If you are getting regular (related to rpm/light knocking) sounds from under the intake system it could be a collapsed lifter or a bent push rod. You might have over tached the engine as you went into the dirt. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From DJoh797014 at aol.com Sat May 31 14:22:08 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 16:22:08 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two Message-ID: Check to make sure that someone has installed the distributor wrong. With #1 TDC the rotor should be pointing to #1 on the cap. In a message dated 5/31/2008 1:16:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tigerv8 at rogers.com writes: Hi, folks. I finally got an opportunity to check the timing on the car today, but not much else as we are on out way out to a friend's birthday celebration. The manual indicates 6 degrees BTDC, with a notation that it is acceptable to go an additional 5 degrees to deal with altitude, and to optimize performance and fuel economy. I have also seen elsewhere that 6-8 degrees is normal. So, I was a bit surprised to see 25 degrees! Does this seem appropriate? I tried retarding the timing down to 10 degrees to see if that helped, but the same problem occurred (harsh sound from the induction system under load), and the engine really didn't seem to run as well as with the initial setting. I hope to get some more time to work with this later or tomorrow.. Thanks, Shaun You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Sat May 31 17:34:13 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 18:34:13 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two In-Reply-To: <000001c8c34a$1cfabdd0$6501a8c0@main> References: <000001c8c34a$1cfabdd0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: <003301c8c376$d5930b00$74fcc04a@jerry> Shaun, Running that much initial advance could indicate that the harmonic balancer has "slipped." This happened to a friend of mine with a 428 Cobra Jet engine. It had slipped 10 or 12 degrees. I was rotating the engine to set it up for initial start up. For some reason, I put my finger in the # 1 cyl to feel the piston come up to TDC; and, to my surprise, the piston came up and was descending before I got to TDC. We sent it to Damper Doc in Calif. And now it's where it's supposed to be. However, I don't think that is the source of your problem with the noise you're hearing. But it sure wouldn't hurt to check it out so that you know that it is where it is supposed to be. It would be very hard to set the timing if you don't know where TDC is - just where it "sounds" good is not good enough. If you had 25 degrees initial and have the normal 26 degree mechanical advance, you'd end up with 51 degrees at some higher RPM, depending on the springs that are installed in the distributor. You said it ran fine before the "incident," so it could have been just fine. It is just when you checked it showed way off. I have set up a couple dozen small and large block Ford distributors with these specs. Using 26 degrees of mechanical advance, the max total is 36 degrees - that will give approximately 10 initial (36-26=10) and all the advance in by 2500 RPM using proper springs. This has worked very well for my Tiger and all the Mustangs I've done. I'm still trying to figure out what your noise is. If it is in fact backfiring, the things that cause that are a lean mixture or timing problems. Keep us all posted. Jerry Christopherson -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Shaun Laughy Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 1:14 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two Hi, folks. I finally got an opportunity to check the timing on the car today, but not much else as we are on out way out to a friend's birthday celebration. The manual indicates 6 degrees BTDC, with a notation that it is acceptable to go an additional 5 degrees to deal with altitude, and to optimize performance and fuel economy. I have also seen elsewhere that 6-8 degrees is normal. So, I was a bit surprised to see 25 degrees! Does this seem appropriate? I tried retarding the timing down to 10 degrees to see if that helped, but the same problem occurred (harsh sound from the induction system under load), and the engine really didn't seem to run as well as with the initial setting. I hope to get some more time to work with this later or tomorrow.. Thanks, Shaun You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From marcsmall at comcast.net Sat May 31 17:45:43 2008 From: marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 19:45:43 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] A Sophomoric Discussion on Advance Techniques In-Reply-To: <003301c8c376$d5930b00$74fcc04a@jerry> References: <000001c8c34a$1cfabdd0$6501a8c0@main> <003301c8c376$d5930b00$74fcc04a@jerry> Message-ID: <20080531234601.987B3187657@autox.team.net> A quiet point not often remembered in USian car circles. European cars, in general, were generally set up until modern times (say, the later 1970's) to have their advance set "static". That is, with the engine NOT running. To put it bluntly, you have: -- the static advance angle -- the centrifugal advance addition to the static angle -- the vacuum advance addition to the static and centrifugal angles Or, in some cases, there were distributors without a vacuum advance or lacking a centrifugal advance, so that situation got a bit cleaner. US cars after, roughly, 1960, were timed while running with a strobe light. European cars were timed when not running with a simple bulb arrangement. Rootes insisted on a static timing method. But understand this: STATIC timing is set with the engine turned off DYNAMIC timing is set with the engine running These are two different universes in a a lot of regards. If it were me, I'd avoid any sort of vacuum advance as that is only a flabby excuse for wasting efficiency while blocking performance driving, but, then, that is me. Marc msmall at aya.yale.edu Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir! From mrlau at charter.net Sat May 31 19:02:12 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 20:02:12 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080601010257.VTAP3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Do this first and then check to make sure that when it says 0 on the balancer the #1 piston is truly on top. The outside ring can slip on the rubber. -- Bill -- Check to make sure that someone has installed the distributor wrong. With #1 TDC the rotor should be pointing to #1 on the cap. In a message dated 5/31/2008 1:16:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tigerv8 at rogers.com writes: Hi, folks. I finally got an opportunity to check the timing on the car today, but not much else as we are on out way out to a friend's birthday celebration. The manual indicates 6 degrees BTDC, with a notation that it is acceptable to go an additional 5 degrees to deal with altitude, and to optimize performance and fuel economy. I have also seen elsewhere that 6-8 degrees is normal. So, I was a bit surprised to see 25 degrees! Does this seem appropriate? I tried retarding the timing down to 10 degrees to see if that helped, but the same problem occurred (harsh sound from the induction system under load), and the engine really didn't seem to run as well as with the initial setting. I hope to get some more time to work with this later or tomorrow.. Thanks, Shaun From tigerv8 at rogers.com Sat May 31 21:00:22 2008 From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 23:00:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two In-Reply-To: <20080601010257.VTAP3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <000201c8c393$a25d9530$6501a8c0@main> Again, my sincere thanks to everyone for the excellent feedback. To answer a few questions: - The distributor does not have vacuum advance -- mechanical only. - I didn't rev the engine at all when I went off the road. It was ALL about brakes and steering. - There distributor has been converted using a Mallory Unilite module. - The problem I am experiencing is not RPM-related. It is entirely load-related. I don't know that it is related to the problem that I am trying to solve, but I'm also suspecting that the balancer has slipped and is reading incorrectly. I'll try to validate that tomorrow. I'd forgotten how little room there is to work on these Tigers! This is especially true of cylinder 1 with that big generator in the way! My first Tiger had an alternator retrofitted. Thanks again, Shaun -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+tigerv8=rogers.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+tigerv8=rogers.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Lau Sent: May 31, 2008 9:02 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two Do this first and then check to make sure that when it says 0 on the balancer the #1 piston is truly on top. The outside ring can slip on the rubber. -- Bill -- Check to make sure that someone has installed the distributor wrong. With #1 TDC the rotor should be pointing to #1 on the cap. In a message dated 5/31/2008 1:16:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tigerv8 at rogers.com writes: Hi, folks. I finally got an opportunity to check the timing on the car today, but not much else as we are on out way out to a friend's birthday celebration. The manual indicates 6 degrees BTDC, with a notation that it is acceptable to go an additional 5 degrees to deal with altitude, and to optimize performance and fuel economy. I have also seen elsewhere that 6-8 degrees is normal. So, I was a bit surprised to see 25 degrees! Does this seem appropriate? I tried retarding the timing down to 10 degrees to see if that helped, but the same problem occurred (harsh sound from the induction system under load), and the engine really didn't seem to run as well as with the initial setting. I hope to get some more time to work with this later or tomorrow.. Thanks, Shaun You are subscribed as tigerv8 at rogers.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive