From walmenke at bigpond.net.au  Sun Jun  1 06:33:07 2008
From: walmenke at bigpond.net.au (Wally Menke)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 22:33:07 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Panhard Rod
Message-ID: <000301c8c3e3$a568a3f0$f039ebd0$@net.au>

Looks like my Panhard rod bracket mounted on the chassis has cracked and
almost come off, which I believe is normal for the Mk1 cars. Previous owner
had welded it back on as well. Any problems running the car without this? Is
there a better solution?

 

Wally Menke

B9471793

From fordlandia at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jun  1 10:00:51 2008
From: fordlandia at sbcglobal.net (Bill Waite)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 09:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Panhard Rod
In-Reply-To: <000301c8c3e3$a568a3f0$f039ebd0$@net.au>
Message-ID: <187895.74842.qm@web82707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Wally,

FYI, its pretty "normal" for Mark II's, also... just that they are mounted (and break off) on the left (drivers) side as they changed the location on the Mark II's.  The previous owner of my car had also tried welding the original bracket back on... but by the time I purchased the car it had already broken again and the Panhard rod and bracket were in the trunk of the car.

I ran my Mark II for quite a while without the Panhard rod, and experienced no apparent issues.  But, I recently pulled the rear end out to have the gear changed, and decided to tackle the Panhard issue before I put the rear end back in.

I purchased one of Tom Hall's (Tiger Engineering) Panhard rod repair kits.  Can be seen at this link:

http://www.tigerengineering.net/

His site has a .pdf file with instructions.  The kit fit very well, I just completed the installation.  I have not yet put the rear end back in the car (decided to address some exhaust "cosmetics" issues first).  But the bracket and "frame" reinforcing parts that Tom engineered are really heavy duty & I'm confident it is permanently repaired.

No affiliation, just a happy customer.

Bill Waite
Grand Rapids, MI 
 

Wally Menke <walmenke at bigpond.net.au> wrote: Looks like my Panhard rod bracket mounted on the chassis has cracked and
almost come off, which I believe is normal for the Mk1 cars. Previous owner
had welded it back on as well. Any problems running the car without this? Is
there a better solution?

 

Wally Menke

B9471793
You are subscribed as fordlandia at sbcglobal.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jun  1 17:10:07 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Pahhard Rod
Message-ID: <800040.76337.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I purchased one of Tom Hall's (Tiger Engineering) Panhard rod repair
 kits.  Can be seen at this link:

http://www.tigerengineering.net/


   
  You may want to swap the location of the panhard mounting to match the MKII.  Rootes realized late that the panhard rod was mounted on the wrong side of the car and corrected their mistake on the MKII.  Someone a year or two ago wrote a explanation of why the handling is better with the rod swapped.  I don't recall all the ins and outs but the  explanation is to make the car handle the same in left and right hand turns.  I saved the email and will have to search for it is you want a copy.
   
   
                                                 Jeff

From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com  Mon Jun  2 08:25:52 2008
From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy))
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:25:52 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] timing
Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF09A656DE@norn32.d30.intra>

Shawn,

It may be that the jarring caused the timing gear to jump a tooth. I
have seen this happen with the old nylon gears in collisions back in the
day. With the new steel gear have not seen it happen ... could this be
the result of your off road excursion???



Best Regards,



Tim Ronak

Services Consultant

Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc.

PH: 949-305-5393

Cell: 949-289-3357

FX: 425-955-6268

Email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com
<mailto:timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com>

Personal Email: timronak at cox.net <mailto:timronak at cox.net>



If you received this message in error please inform the sender and
delete the message.

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Mon Jun  2 15:11:22 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:11:22 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] A Sophomoric Discussion on Advance Techniques
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F021@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Hi Marc,
I don't understand your comment on vacuum advance. Pretty much all
engines give significantly better mileage if you increase the timing
advance under light load conditions, which is what the vacuum advance
mechanism does, or at least, that is what it's supposed to do. As soon
as your foot goes into the throttle, the vacuum goes away, and the
timing becomes governed by the mechanical advance. Properly set up, you
get the best of both worlds: Extra advance at low power settings for
good mileage, and the optimal advance for maximum power when the
throttle is wide open.

I'll grant that having an extra advance mechanism opens the door to
having that advance cut in at an inopportune time due to some component
failure, but there are also many other ways that the ignition timing can
be messed up. The use of vacuum advance is not a unique risk in that
regard.
Cheers,
Theo

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Mon Jun  2 15:31:07 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:31:07 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Llooking at a car/restoration and parts $$$..... Part
 1 of 2?
In-Reply-To: <27435718.409721212085964769.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web20-z02>
References: <27435718.409721212085964769.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web20-z02>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868B3D55@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

I'm resending this from last week in two parts, I think the message
length was too long before and it didn't go through, maybe this will
work...


Steve,

In regards to the costs and effort associated with fixing or restoring
these items, I'm sure most of the listers would point you towards the
Tigers United tech link on dash restoration:

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/ParlantiDash/rt-ParlantiDash1.asp


I have read this article and have started my dash restoration using it
as a guideline. In my opinion, the thing to consider most about dash
restoration is are you going to go back to the burl walnut on plywood
veneer or just use a solid walnut plank as often occurs. I personally
love the burl walnut, and there are a few places, especially online,
that will sell high quality burl walnut veneer. I purchased my veneer
from Constantines just like the article refers and it works great so
far. The hardest part was finding the right piece of plywood for the
substrate. Different grades of plywood will have different qualities and
finished thicknesses....IN SHORT, the veneer is about 140 bucks plus
shipping...unfortunately you must buy the 24 x 48" size which will fit
the 48" distance for the dash, but, you will have some left over. I
think you can buy a dash completed from Rick at Sunbeam
Specialties...see continued next email....








Steve wrote:


"......Is there anyplace on the net that I can find prices either firm
or approximate for
parts or restoration or repair. For example I know the car I'm going to
see has a lousy wood dash. How much to replace or refinish ? How much to
rebuild a Ford V8 ? How much to replace a stock carb ? How much to
replace clutch or transmission ? It would be very helpful to have a
better feel than I now have for what various defects will cost.

Thanks in advance

Steve........."

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Mon Jun  2 16:05:47 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 17:05:47 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Llooking at a car/restoration and parts $$$..... Part
 2 of 2
References: <27435718.409721212085964769.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web20-z02>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868B3D69@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Email 2 of 2.......


In regards to the other items, my Tiger is (or rather will be when done)
a 302 with a 5 speed conversion. I didn't have a motor when I got my car
and originality isn't my concern in regards to cubic inches. I can't
tell you for sure how much it cost to build a 260, but a 302 can be
built here in Oklahoma, professionally by a reputable builder, with
aftermarket hardware, forged pistons, steel crank, balanced and
blueprinted in the mid teens for a shortblock, no heads. There are a lot
of variations of how to build a sbf that will affect cost, but I am
building a fairly stock spec 302 H.O. shortblock( which includes all the
forged pistons and steel crank, roller cam) for that amount or less and
about a grand worth of aluminum heads and your ready to pick an
induction system. You can also just buy a stock type long block from
ford for about 2500-3 grand in a 302. With a motor you can spend 800
bucks on a low mileage take out or 5 grand or more on a keith craft
motor...it will just depend on what you want out of the car. I'm
shooting for a motor built a lot like Tim Ronak's, but I'm a horsepower
junkie. (refer to this month's Tiger Tales newsletter for details)

Again on the transmission, a world class t-5 rebuilt will run you about
800 bucks, and you will need a tail shaft conversion kit from Tom Hall
or stumble through something on your own. I have little to no experience
with rebuilding the factory transmission, I've never had one.

Just my opinion, hopefully it might help for a perpective.

Cullen
1452
















Steve wrote:


"......Is there anyplace on the net that I can find prices either firm
or approximate for
parts or restoration or repair. For example I know the car I'm going to
see has a lousy wood dash. How much to replace or refinish ? How much to
rebuild a Ford V8 ? How much to replace a stock carb ? How much to
replace clutch or transmission ? It would be very helpful to have a
better feel than I now have for what various defects will cost.

Thanks in advance

Steve........."

From AAAGLASSS at aol.com  Mon Jun  2 17:46:16 2008
From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:46:16 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Llooking at a car/restoration and parts $$$..... Part
 2 of 2
Message-ID: <d35.29f23ddb.3575e048@aol.com>

Can the stock drive shaft and the drive shaft for the 5 speed be spliced to  
accommodate this or is it not the correct thing to do??
 
 
In a message dated 6/2/2008 3:08:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
cmccann at lwpb.com writes:

Email 2  of 2.......


In regards to the other items, my Tiger is (or rather  will be when done)
a 302 with a 5 speed conversion. I didn't have a motor  when I got my car
and originality isn't my concern in regards to cubic  inches. I can't
tell you for sure how much it cost to build a 260, but a  302 can be
built here in Oklahoma, professionally by a reputable builder,  with
aftermarket hardware, forged pistons, steel crank, balanced  and
blueprinted in the mid teens for a shortblock, no heads. There are a  lot
of variations of how to build a sbf that will affect cost, but I  am
building a fairly stock spec 302 H.O. shortblock( which includes all  the
forged pistons and steel crank, roller cam) for that amount or less  and
about a grand worth of aluminum heads and your ready to pick  an
induction system. You can also just buy a stock type long block  from
ford for about 2500-3 grand in a 302. With a motor you can spend  800
bucks on a low mileage take out or 5 grand or more on a keith  craft
motor...it will just depend on what you want out of the car.  I'm
shooting for a motor built a lot like Tim Ronak's, but I'm a  horsepower
junkie. (refer to this month's Tiger Tales newsletter for  details)

Again on the transmission, a world class t-5 rebuilt will run  you about
800 bucks, and you will need a tail shaft conversion kit from Tom  Hall
or stumble through something on your own. I have little to no  experience
with rebuilding the factory transmission, I've never had  one.

Just my opinion, hopefully it might help for a  perpective.

Cullen
1452
















Steve  wrote:


"......Is there anyplace on the net that I can find prices  either firm
or approximate for
parts or restoration or repair. For  example I know the car I'm going to
see has a lousy wood dash. How much to  replace or refinish ? How much to
rebuild a Ford V8 ? How much to replace a  stock carb ? How much to
replace clutch or transmission ? It would be very  helpful to have a
better feel than I now have for what various defects will  cost.

Thanks in  advance

Steve........."
You are subscribed as  aaaglasss at aol.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

B382002560





**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

From tigerv8 at rogers.com  Mon Jun  2 17:52:21 2008
From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:52:21 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two
In-Reply-To: <060220080343.20717.48436C48000C9E3B000050ED22073000330A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001601c8c50b$b3536bc0$6501a8c0@main>

Thanks, Curtis.  The distributor is actually a stock Ford, I believe,
with a Mallory Unilite conversion module.  Do you know it the Ford
distributor is two-piece as well?

Shaun

-----Original Message-----
From: 65tiger at comcast.net [mailto:65tiger at comcast.net] 
Sent: June 1, 2008 11:43 PM
To: Shaun Laughy; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two


Shaun,
One thing to look at is the Mallory Unilite distributor.  It is not a
billet distributor shaft.  It is actually two pieces with a friction
lock in the middle.  It CAN and will SHIFT.  I was having this problem
with my timing.  With the friction lock as tight as it would go, I could
turn the rotor and change the timing.  
The solution is to bring the two parts back into alignment, 
tighten parts, re-install the distributor, and re-time the 
engine.  I did this twice and tossed the Unilite for a MSD billet
distributor.  Attached is a picture of the Unilite and MSD for
reference.  The balancer may not be the problem.  
Curtis

From tigerv8 at rogers.com  Mon Jun  2 17:54:57 2008
From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:54:57 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] timing
In-Reply-To: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF09A656DE@norn32.d30.intra>
Message-ID: <001701c8c50c$105fc390$6501a8c0@main>

Hi, Tim.
 
It definitely could be this.  I've pretty well decided that I will
replace the timing set regardless, and will also likely switch to a
vacuum advance distributor.  I am thinking of the Pertronix unit.  Does
anyone have an opinion on these or other choices?
 
Thanks,
Shaun

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronak, TP (Timothy) [mailto:Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com] 
Sent: June 2, 2008 10:26 AM
To: tigerv8 at rogers.com
Cc: Tiger News Group List
Subject: timing



Shawn,

It may be that the jarring caused the timing gear to jump a tooth. I
have seen this happen with the old nylon gears in collisions back in the
day. With the new steel gear have not seen it happen . could this be the
result of your off road excursion???

 

Best Regards,

 

Tim Ronak

Services Consultant

Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc.

PH: 949-305-5393

Cell: 949-289-3357

FX: 425-955-6268

Email:  <mailto:timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com>
timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com

Personal Email:  <mailto:timronak at cox.net> timronak at cox.net 

 

If you received this message in error please inform the sender and
delete the message.

From tigerv8 at rogers.com  Mon Jun  2 18:29:58 2008
From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:29:58 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two
In-Reply-To: <001601c8c50b$b3536bc0$6501a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <000001c8c510$f45ea0d0$6501a8c0@main>

Sorry to respond to my own post, but I just remembered that I received a
binder of information when I got the car.  I have just looked through
it, and have found some information that indicates that I am probably
wrong on the distributor.  Buried in the back of the binder, is an old,
handwritten description of the mechanicals that reads as follows:

Rebuilt 5-bolt 289 with HiPo damper, ARP rod bolts, hydraulic HiPo cam,
gasket-matched intake & exhaust ports, stainless steel 289 valves,
screw-in studs, double timing chain (HiPo), high-volume oil-pump,
aluminized headers, windage tray.

-	dual-point distributor (Mallory)
-	Holley 600 carburetor
-	rebuilt clutch & pressure plate
-	wide-ratio transmission (rebuilt)
-	radiator (recored)
-	rebuilt & powder coated suspension

So, although I can't see any markings, I would assume that the
distributor is still the Mallory unit.  I know that the previous owner
had the electronic module installed while he owned it, so it would make
sense that he decided upon the Mallory Unilite module to go with the
Mallory distributor.

Looking further at the description, it would seem that the engine
already has a double-roller timing set, and I would assume that this
also means that, by necessity, it doesn't have the nylon timing gears.
Considering the small amount of mileage that the car has had for the
past several years, it seems unlikely that the timing set would be the
problem.  I think I am going to start by replacing the distributor with
a new vacuum advance unit.

I wish I had found this information sooner!  Thanks again to everyone
for all the help.

Shaun

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+tigerv8=rogers.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+tigerv8=rogers.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Shaun Laughy
Sent: June 2, 2008 7:52 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two


Thanks, Curtis.  The distributor is actually a stock Ford, I believe,
with a Mallory Unilite conversion module.  Do you know it the Ford
distributor is two-piece as well?

Shaun

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Tue Jun  3 07:38:56 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 07:38:56 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Llooking at a car/restoration and parts $$$..... Part
 2 of 2
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F023@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Any competent driveshaft shop can change the length of a driveshaft or
build you one from scratch. However, since the spline size and output
shaft diameters of the Ford T-5 and the toploader are the same, you can
use the original driveshaft. I think the T5 tailhousing and shaft are a
little shorter than the toploader, so the spline engagement isn't quite
as good with the T5 as it is with the toploader if you use the original
driveshaft.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of AAAGLASSS at aol.com
Sent: June 2, 2008 5:46 PM
To: cmccann at lwpb.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Llooking at a car/restoration and parts $$$.....
Part 2 of 2

Can the stock drive shaft and the drive shaft for the 5 speed be spliced
to accommodate this or is it not the correct thing to do??

From Carmods at aol.com  Tue Jun  3 07:47:42 2008
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 09:47:42 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] : T-5 Driveshaft
Message-ID: <c1c.388c23b7.3576a57e@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/2/2008 7:47:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
AAAGLASSS at aol.com writes:

Can the  stock drive shaft and the drive shaft for the 5 speed be spliced to  
 
accommodate this or is it not the correct thing to  do??



Cullen,
You can use your Tiger driveshaft without modification.
John Logan



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

From prbreuhan at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 08:02:20 2008
From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:02:20 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant...
Message-ID: <BAY114-W56DA62A26A13BE52E5FDBAABA0@phx.gbl>

FYI...
Last night while watching a movie, several times a Subway commercial came up
which had a Get Smart theme. Max's Tiger got lots of air time in it.
Unfortunately the commercial isn't up on their website (or You Tube).

If you go to the Subway website you will see that Subway is giving away a 1965
Tiger as the Grand Prize...but don't enter because I am planning on winning
the car! LOL

Paul
_________________________________________________________________
Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback.
http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=srchpaysyou
back

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Tue Jun  3 09:57:06 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:57:06 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] : T-5 Driveshaft
In-Reply-To: <c1c.388c23b7.3576a57e@aol.com>
References: <c1c.388c23b7.3576a57e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868B3E21@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Thanks Theo and John for the clarification on the driveshaft, I didn't
know the splines were the same, excellent!

Cullen
blah blah 1452

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Tue Jun  3 10:15:21 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:15:21 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant...
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-W56DA62A26A13BE52E5FDBAABA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY114-W56DA62A26A13BE52E5FDBAABA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868B3E2D@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Didn't we determine that the get smart car is a tiger clone for the
movie, made from an alpine? Is this the car they are giving away and
calling it a Tiger? Not that I would turn down a clean alpine with a
machine gun under the hood, but.....

Remember when gone in 60 seconds came out at the theater and the value
of the 67-68 mustangs, especially fastbacks went through the roof? I
wonder if Tiger values will go up some measurable amount just because of
this movie exposure....

Hmmmmmm.

C






FYI...
Last night while watching a movie, several times a Subway commercial
came up
which had a Get Smart theme. Max's Tiger got lots of air time in it.
Unfortunately the commercial isn't up on their website (or You Tube).

If you go to the Subway website you will see that Subway is giving away
a 1965
Tiger as the Grand Prize...but don't enter because I am planning on
winning
the car! LOL

Paul

From rjw at wengco.com  Tue Jun  3 11:33:34 2008
From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:33:34 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Control arm bushings
Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C57DDD10@weco1.wengco.com>

I received new bushings from VB that are rubber with a metal sleeve for
the rod to go through. I pushed out the old bushings and left behind in
the control arms were metal sleeves that surrounded the original
bushings. I called VB and asked if I should reuse the outer sleeves and
the said they would check with the Tech people and get back to me in a
couple of days. I did not hear from them for a week and after measuring
the sleeve and bushing found that the bushing diameter is larger than
the diameter of the sleeve and since it looked like the original bushing
was bonded to the sleeve and the sleeve had to be heated to be removed I
assumed that the new bushing was an improvement over the old and the
sleeve was not needed. Now with the installation complete VB got back to
me and said the sleeve is needed to keep the rubber from tearing. What
have others done before I take it apart again?



Bob

B382001318

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Tue Jun  3 11:40:01 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:40:01 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Control arm bushings
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F029@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I bought the urethane bushings from Rick at Sunbeam Specialties. You get
two choices of durometer, they come with proper inside and outside
sleeves, and they fit.

Theo


-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Robert J. Wanty
Sent: June 3, 2008 11:34 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Control arm bushings

I received new bushings from VB that are rubber with a metal sleeve for
the rod to go through. I pushed out the old bushings and left behind in
the control arms were metal sleeves that surrounded the original
bushings. I called VB and asked if I should reuse the outer sleeves and
the said they would check with the Tech people and get back to me in a
couple of days. I did not hear from them for a week and after measuring
the sleeve and bushing found that the bushing diameter is larger than
the diameter of the sleeve and since it looked like the original bushing
was bonded to the sleeve and the sleeve had to be heated to be removed I
assumed that the new bushing was an improvement over the old and the
sleeve was not needed. Now with the installation complete VB got back to
me and said the sleeve is needed to keep the rubber from tearing. What
have others done before I take it apart again?



Bob

B382001318
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From prbreuhan at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 11:52:24 2008
From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:52:24 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant...
In-Reply-To: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868B3E2D@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
References: <BAY114-W56DA62A26A13BE52E5FDBAABA0@phx.gbl>
	<D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868B3E2D@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W144B8F6C3E048F18A6DF5AAABA0@phx.gbl>

Subway is saying the value is $58,500...that would be quite an Alger.

The nice thing is that they are throwing in cash also...could be used towards
the taxes.

Paul> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:15:21 -0500> From: cmccann at lwpb.com> To:
tigers at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger & Subway
Restaurant...> > Didn't we determine that the get smart car is a tiger clone
for the> movie, made from an alpine? Is this the car they are giving away and>
calling it a Tiger? Not that I would turn down a clean alpine with a> machine
gun under the hood, but.....> > Remember when gone in 60 seconds came out at
the theater and the value> of the 67-68 mustangs, especially fastbacks went
through the roof? I> wonder if Tiger values will go up some measurable amount
just because of> this movie exposure....> > Hmmmmmm.> > C> > > > > > > FYI...>
Last night while watching a movie, several times a Subway commercial> came up>
which had a Get Smart theme. Max's Tiger got lots of air time in it.>
Unfortunately the commercial isn't up on their website (or You Tube).>
_________________________________________________________________
Its easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Windows
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From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Tue Jun  3 16:07:16 2008
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:07:16 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger giveaway
Message-ID: <ca9.27bc766c.35771a94@aol.com>

Subway is giving away 1965 Sunbeam Tiger (Looks like a 1966 in the  pics)
as part of the GET Smart..Eat Fresh Promo.
 
So DONT go to _www.subwayfreshbuzz.com_ (http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com)  and 
enter the  code SUNBEAMTIGER.
 
The fewer pople in the giveaway, the better my chance.
 
Dave Johnson
 



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Tue Jun  3 16:11:19 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:11:19 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger giveaway
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F02C@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

It's not open to Canadians... You're already in luck.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of DJoh797014 at aol.com
Sent: June 3, 2008 4:07 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger giveaway

Subway is giving away 1965 Sunbeam Tiger (Looks like a 1966 in the
pics) as part of the GET Smart..Eat Fresh Promo.

So DONT go to _www.subwayfreshbuzz.com_ (http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com)
and enter the  code SUNBEAMTIGER.

The fewer pople in the giveaway, the better my chance.

Dave Johnson




**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with

Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
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http://www.team.net/archive

From PhastPhill at aol.com  Tue Jun  3 16:31:26 2008
From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:31:26 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger giveaway
Message-ID: <bfb.39d7b5af.3577203e@aol.com>

Why those rotten SOB's.....I'll use me mums address in  Florida..!!!

From tigerv8 at rogers.com  Tue Jun  3 16:38:08 2008
From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 18:38:08 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two
In-Reply-To: <004701c8c5ab$41189a30$74fcc04a@jerry>
Message-ID: <001d01c8c5ca$7f710c80$6501a8c0@main>

Thanks for the information, Jerry.  I actually have an article that
describes how to do this.  The only issue I have with the Duraspark is
in the area of looks, as the wide-cap is very unique in appearance and
much different from stock.  Still, this could be a great and practical
option, so I will keep it in mind.

Thanks,
Shaun

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry [mailto:JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net] 
Sent: June 3, 2008 2:55 PM
To: 'Shaun Laughy'; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two


Shaun,

In order to save you money may I suggest using a Ford Duraspark II
distributor? It has the same type of pickup as the MSD dist. And were
made from the early

70's to somewhere in the 80's and has a vacuum can. The only difference
is you have to have an amplifier with it as they use the Hall Effect
principle. Now all the good things that Ford does the Duraspark II amps
they had weren't very good so another amp that is far better and easy to
obtain is, do I dare say, from the Dodge, Chrysler group! (I guess there
is a distant connection). 
Their amp is apparently very good, it is used by Performance
Distributors (Memphis,TN)in their setups and good for 10,000 RPMS (That
should take care of any and all Tigers). The Standard Ignition part # is
LX-101, Delco's # is C1908. These are the better ones, but
O'Reilly's,AutoZone,PepBoys have them
with a lifetime warranty for less, some around $20.00.   
The May 1988 issue of Tiger Tails has an article by Ted McKinley showing
the wiring diagram how to wire it up, very simple. If you are interested
I will send you a copy of the article. This setup will run just as well
as a high priced MSD's or Mallory's for a lot less money IF you get the
curve set properly, The fact is the curve should be exactly the same.
The fact is your Mallory dist. should be just fine. I just cruved a
Mallory dist. The other day on a Mustang, different than the Ford, but
the same principles apply. Perhaps a call to Mallory to see if there is
a way to test the module to make sure it is operating perfectly would
help.

On another note do you think you had enough bouncing around that may
have caused any debris in the carb. to get into the mains or other
passageways?
   
Guess I've rambled enough!

Jerry Christopherson

9473187 (I've had this setup for 8 years now with no problems) 

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Tue Jun  3 16:44:14 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 17:44:14 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger giveaway
In-Reply-To: <ca9.27bc766c.35771a94@aol.com>
References: <ca9.27bc766c.35771a94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868B3EEC@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

I checked the clue category to find out what the secret code was, it
told me to buy a 32 oz fountain drink to find out....did you do this
dave? Did the fountain drink say sunbeamtiger on it?!!!






Subject: [Tigers] Tiger giveaway

Subway is giving away 1965 Sunbeam Tiger (Looks like a 1966 in the
pics)
as part of the GET Smart..Eat Fresh Promo.

So DONT go to _www.subwayfreshbuzz.com_ (http://www.subwayfreshbuzz.com)

  and
enter the  code SUNBEAMTIGER.

The fewer pople in the giveaway, the better my chance.

Dave Johnson

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Tue Jun  3 16:52:48 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:52:48 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F02E@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

If you use good plug wires and don't go silly on the plug gaps, then you
can use the standard cap and rotor even if you're running Duraspark guts
in your distributor. I don't know offhand if the old-school cap will fit
on the Duraspark era distributors without modifying something somewhere.

I built a hybrid distributor a few years ago - started with a
points-type distributor and removed the advance plate and the upper
distributor shaft (the part with the points cam etc). Then I put in a
duraspark distributor's upper shaft and advance plate. I also welded and
ground the advance plate to limit the mechanical advance to about 26
degrees. Then I wired the reluctor coil directly to an MSD6AL. If you
wanted to you could sneak the two wires inside a piece of heatshrink and
it would look almost exactly like a points distributor from the outside.
Come to think of it, I used the wide style cap on this distributor so I
guess the old style cap should fit on the Duraspark era distributors.

The early transistorized ignitions have heat tolerance issues. If you're
going to use one of these (Duraspark, the GM HEI module, or what have
you) then it might be a good idea to mount it in the wheel well or in
the front valence area. That way it's out of sight, too... But don't
bundle the ignition coil wires with the distributor sensor wires.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Shaun Laughy
Sent: June 3, 2008 4:38 PM
To: 'Jerry'; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two

Thanks for the information, Jerry.  I actually have an article that
describes how to do this.  The only issue I have with the Duraspark is
in the area of looks, as the wide-cap is very unique in appearance and
much different from stock.  Still, this could be a great and practical
option, so I will keep it in mind.

Thanks,
Shaun

From bobdixon at frii.com  Tue Jun  3 16:53:28 2008
From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:53:28 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Wiring effect car value?
Message-ID: <58391.192.55.12.36.1212533608.squirrel@users.frii.com>

I'm just curious what the common opinion might be on if replacing my
Tiger's wiring with a Painless harness would decrease it's value?  I'm
replacing the generator with an alternator also.

-Bob

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Tue Jun  3 17:26:18 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:26:18 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant..
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-W56DA62A26A13BE52E5FDBAABA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY114-W56DA62A26A13BE52E5FDBAABA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806031626t1015e692gfcdf3a3c61c8cb25@mail.gmail.com>

I was looking at the tiger in the pics on the subway site.. seems to be the
photos from the fantasy junction? website.. was a tiger on hemmings for
65K.. looks liek that car.. wonder if thats the one they are giving away?
-- 
Regards

Michael King

From tigerv8 at rogers.com  Tue Jun  3 17:29:33 2008
From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:29:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two
In-Reply-To: <000001c8c5d1$3d1ac360$74fcc04a@jerry>
Message-ID: <001f01c8c5d1$aeb121e0$6501a8c0@main>

Thanks, Jerry -- I'll keep it that option in mind.

Shaun

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry [mailto:JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net] 
Sent: June 3, 2008 7:26 PM
To: 'Shaun Laughy'; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Two


Shaun,

As others have said already you can use the smaller caps with the Dura
dist. without any mods, you just use the smaller rotor. I have a friend
with a Mustang that we put a "small cap" on his MSD dist. to give a
stock look. They put out a very hot spark without any crossfiring. You
also have the option of having female or male connectors on the top of
the cap for the different types of plug wires.

Jerry

From tgrrr at peoplepc.com  Tue Jun  3 17:48:10 2008
From: tgrrr at peoplepc.com (Bob Hokanson)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:48:10 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Wiring effect car value?
References: <58391.192.55.12.36.1212533608.squirrel@users.frii.com>
Message-ID: <005901c8c5d4$4846d780$e4e9f204@bob>

It will be worth more than the smoldering heap of rubble left after the 
Lucas no-fuse fire.

Bob H

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Dixon" <bobdixon at frii.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 3:53 PM
Subject: [Tigers] Wiring effect car value?


> I'm just curious what the common opinion might be on if replacing my
> Tiger's wiring with a Painless harness would decrease it's value?  I'm
> replacing the generator with an alternator also.
>
> -Bob

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Tue Jun  3 19:22:55 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:22:55 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Wiring effect car value?
In-Reply-To: <58391.192.55.12.36.1212533608.squirrel@users.frii.com>
References: <58391.192.55.12.36.1212533608.squirrel@users.frii.com>
Message-ID: <4845EE6F.2080802@SoCal.rr.com>

Bob,

There are plenty of Tigers sold with lots of modifications.  But, you 
won't get the value of the unmodified vehicle in similar condition.  Of 
course, there is always the Mecum "Tribute" car sales, but they don't 
get top dollar.

If you are not concerned with market values, then do what pleases you.  
If you are, save everything you remove, in suitable condition for 
re-installing.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Bob Dixon wrote:
> I'm just curious what the common opinion might be on if replacing my
> Tiger's wiring with a Painless harness would decrease it's value?  I'm
> replacing the generator with an alternator also.
>
> -Bob

From sralsten at ca.rr.com  Tue Jun  3 21:47:52 2008
From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (Steve Ralsten)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:47:52 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] :  Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1212516003.23592.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <20080604034751.DWJP28655.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@hplaptop>

FYI...
Last night while watching a movie, several times a Subway commercial
came up
which had a Get Smart theme. Max's Tiger got lots of air time in it.
Unfortunately the commercial isn't up on their website (or You Tube).

If you go to the Subway website you will see that Subway is giving away
a 1965
Tiger as the Grand Prize...but don't enter because I am planning on
winning
the car! LOL

Paul

I'm probably not doing this reply properly, but if I am I expect you all
to stay out of Subway and leave the car to the new guy (ME) that does not
yet have a car. ;^)

Steve R

From rjw at wengco.com  Wed Jun  4 05:17:44 2008
From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 07:17:44 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Control arm bushings
Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C57DDD2A@weco1.wengco.com>

Thanks,

I got numerous responses with great information; I should have consulted
the list prior to undertaking the bushing replacement. The short version
of the replies indicate that I return the VB bushings (not possible
because they have been installed) and get the SS bushings, after looking
I agree the SS bushings are ones to use. So back to the barn and remove
the VB bushings and install the SS bushings. I am getting pretty good at
tearing apart the front end but I think that I will replace the nuts and
bolts with wing nuts so that next time it will go even faster (just
kidding so don't mass email me about the wing nuts).



Bob

B382001318

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Wed Jun  4 09:09:39 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:09:39 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Control arm bushings
References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C57DDD2A@weco1.wengco.com>
Message-ID: <003501c8c655$029d1d30$0202a8c0@student2>

Bob,
  Regardless of the number of installs (your experience), make sure you get 
the fulcrum pin installed correctly. I knew about it, thought about it, 
reminded myself about it and thought I did it.  But, low and behold when I 
was all done I got one on backwards.  Try as I might I couldn't get the 
bushing out without destroying it.
Tom 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1480 - Release Date: 6/3/2008 7:00
AM

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Wed Jun  4 09:30:09 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:30:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Control arm bushings
References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C57DDD2A@weco1.wengco.com>
Message-ID: <006401c8c657$dfbdee40$0202a8c0@student2>

By the way, Tom Hall did a great article on installing lubrication fittings 
for the SS bushings.
http://tigerengineering.net/TECHTIPS/Urethane%20Bushing%20Pt%201.pdf
  You might want to consider it.  I did.  Not having access to make the jigs 
he did, I used  my drill press and a block of hard wood to make my own jig. 
Then, using a drill and good visual "gestimation" I clamped it in a vise and 
drilled my holes.  While not perfect, it did come out OK.

Tom Witt 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1482 - Release Date: 6/4/2008 7:10
AM

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun  4 15:28:02 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:28:02 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Best place for the Panhard Rod
Message-ID: <00ba01c8c689$dec23d70$6601a8c0@your03667082de>

I found the email describing why Rootes moved the Panhard rod from the Mk1
location to the MkII location.


                                                                             
   Jeff



>
> To those interested in Panhard locations, here is my analysis to answer
some
>
> of the recent questions.
>
> The stock Mark I rod runs from below the wheel centerline of the axle on
the
>
> left side to high on the body on the right side. The Mark II runs the
> opposite direction. The instant roll center of the rear suspension is
> defined
> as the point at which the Rod intersects the centerline of the car.
>
>  When accelerating out of a RIGHT turn, the body rolls to the left, raising
> the right pivot. When this happens the instant roll center of the rear
rises
>
> increasing the roll stiffness of the rear suspension. Two things now
happen.
>
> The engine torque into the rear axle as well as the increased rear roll
> stiffness cause vertical loads to be shifted from the right rear and the
> left
> front tires to the left rear tire. As the left front and right rear tires
> lose vertical loads they lose cornering power. These cornering forces are
> additive and transferred to the left rear tire. As the force exceeds the
> tire
> capability there will be an extreme oversteer in right turns and lifting
and
>
> spinning of the right tire.
>
> When accelerating out of a LEFT turn, the body rolls to the right, lowering
> the right pivot. When this happens the instant roll center of the rear
> suspension lowers, decreasing the roll stiffness. Again two things happen.
> The engine torque into the rear axle as well as the decreased rear roll
> stiffness causes cornering force capability to be shifted to the right
front
>
> tire. As the force exceeds the right tire capability the car will have
> understeer. Having a car that handles different when turning left or right
> is
> not fun.
>
> With the Tiger Mark II, which has the Panhard Rod running from the right
> side
> of the axle to the left side of the body, the opposite dynamics happen and
> these loads subtract from each other. The left and right turn differences
> are
> improved and it is easier to balance front and rear roll stiffness.
>
> So, to improve the Tiger rear geometry in order of complexity, you can
> change
> the Panhard Rod to the Mark II design, make the Panhard Rod horizontal by
> lowering the frame attachment pivot or install a Watt's linkage. Good luck
> in
> finding room and feel free to add more ideas.
>
>                                                                 John Logan

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun  4 15:37:54 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:37:54 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Another Suspension Bushing Source
Message-ID: <00c101c8c68b$3f6c38f0$6601a8c0@your03667082de>

Here is another bushing source http://www.rootesparts.com/id103.htm.  They
sell exact duplicates of the original Metalastic bushing.  I bought a set a
couple of weeks ago but have not installed them.  The cost with shipping was
$160. We get nailed on the exchange rate because the company is in Holland.
The one advantage over Ricks bushings, is you do not have to drill holes to
lubricate the bushings.  Check the web site for parts no one else makes, like
convertible top latches etc.



                                                                             
                                Jeff

From wsteinman at pogolaw.com  Wed Jun  4 15:41:16 2008
From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:41:16 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] :  Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant...
In-Reply-To: <20080604034751.DWJP28655.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@hplaptop>
References: <mailman.23.1212516003.23592.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<20080604034751.DWJP28655.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@hplaptop>
Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B21E3664@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET>

Believe it or not, my ex-wife does some legal work for Subway
sweepstakes.  I asked if she could tell me more about the car, and she
refused, citing the attorney-client privilege.

Bill S.
2005 Lotus Elise
1968 Triumph TR-250
1968 MGC Tourer
1966 Austin Healey 3000 Mk III
1965 Sunbeam Tiger
1959 Austin Healey 3000

Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows...



NOTICE: This communication and its attachments have been sent to you from
Powell Goldstein LLP and may contain privileged or other confidential
information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have
received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit,
disseminate, or otherwise use the information. If you are not the intended
recipient appearing in the address lines of this communication, you should not
rely upon it.  Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this
communication in error, and delete the copy you received.

IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required
to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment
hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties
imposed under the Internal Revenue Code.

Thank you.

From tcprager at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 15:51:53 2008
From: tcprager at hotmail.com (Thomas Prager)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 16:51:53 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Another Suspension Bushing Source
References: <00c101c8c68b$3f6c38f0$6601a8c0@your03667082de>
Message-ID: <BAY142-DAV839A1A0355191C4ACF541CBB50@phx.gbl>

I have dealt with this company, having purchased their top latches. Out of the
box the chrome plating was peeling from both latches. I called the owner via
Skype and he speaks perfect English. He replaced the latches without
complaining. I would suggest that you ask the owner to personally inspect any
parts you are buying prior to mailing.

tom


  Here is another bushing source
http://www.rootesparts.com/id103.htm<http://www.rootesparts.com/id103.htm>.
Check the web site for parts no one else makes, like convertible top latches
etc.

From jteepen at usatoday.com  Wed Jun  4 15:55:43 2008
From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:55:43 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] :  Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant...
In-Reply-To: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B21E3664@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET>
Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230AE9BAD@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>

Sorry to be picky Bill, but shouldn't you have started your message with
"Would you believe..."

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Steinman, Bill
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:41 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] : Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant...

Believe it or not, my ex-wife does some legal work for Subway sweepstakes.  I
asked if she could tell me more about the car, and she refused, citing the
attorney-client privilege.

Bill S.
2005 Lotus Elise
1968 Triumph TR-250
1968 MGC Tourer
1966 Austin Healey 3000 Mk III
1965 Sunbeam Tiger
1959 Austin Healey 3000

Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows...



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From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Wed Jun  4 17:56:05 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:56:05 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Another Suspension Bushing Source
In-Reply-To: <BAY142-DAV839A1A0355191C4ACF541CBB50@phx.gbl>
References: <00c101c8c68b$3f6c38f0$6601a8c0@your03667082de>
	<BAY142-DAV839A1A0355191C4ACF541CBB50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806041656k45246779v5cba8705c2352db0@mail.gmail.com>

On 05/06/2008, Thomas Prager <tcprager at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have dealt with this company, having purchased their top latches. Out of
> the
> box the chrome plating was peeling from both latches. I called the owner
> via
> Skype and he speaks perfect English. He replaced the latches without
> complaining. I would suggest that you ask the owner to personally inspect
> any
> parts you are buying prior to mailing.



I ordered a set of boot hinges from them with the same issue of peeling
chrome. Anoud replaced them after we sent them back.. so yes good service,..
but a little annoying when you are returning them from australia!

-- 
> Regards
>
> Michael King

From modtiger at comcast.net  Wed Jun  4 18:27:36 2008
From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:27:36 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Another Suspension Bushing Source
In-Reply-To: <00c101c8c68b$3f6c38f0$6601a8c0@your03667082de>
References: <00c101c8c68b$3f6c38f0$6601a8c0@your03667082de>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080604172410.038215c0@comcast.net>

At 02:37 PM 6/4/2008, you wrote:
>Here is another bushing source http://www.rootesparts.com/id103.htm.  They
>sell exact duplicates of the original Metalastic bushing.  I bought a set a
>couple of weeks ago but have not installed them.  The cost with shipping was
>$160. We get nailed on the exchange rate because the company is in Holland.
>The one advantage over Ricks bushings, is you do not have to drill holes to
>lubricate the bushings.  Check the web site for parts no one else makes, like
>convertible top latches etc.

I found his bushing to have similar size problems with the diameters 
as Rick's bushings used to have.  This is an area were you need to 
pay attention to details no matter who makes the bushings.


Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
www.tigerengineering.net

From gpointer at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun  4 20:05:32 2008
From: gpointer at telusplanet.net (Pointers)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 21:05:32 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 224
References: <mailman.14869.1212592180.1200.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <004e01c8c6b0$a2b36a30$4001a8c0@TIGERV8>

Now that's frustrating; it had me interested. The $58.5K ARV sure exceeds my
recent appraisal. I'm sure they're bound to US for good reason, but with 2339
locations in Canada, and that I drop $$ there frequently, maybe some of us
Canucks should put pen to paper in disapproval.

Gary
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:11:19 -0600
From: "Smit, Theo" <Theo.Smit at dynastream.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger giveaway
To: <DJoh797014 at aol.com>, <tigers at autox.team.net>
Message-ID:
<60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F02C at dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

It's not open to Canadians... You're already in luck.

Theo

From RussE at Firstva.com  Thu Jun  5 09:46:25 2008
From: RussE at Firstva.com (Russ Eshelman)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:46:25 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger/Alpine GT Door Part
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F02C@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <00b301c8c723$5170aa20$bb7ca3d1@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Hello Listers,  I'm asking for a frind that is restoring a Mk1a Tiger and is
need of a left door waist roll metal strip. I told him I'd ask the list
......maybe someone has a spare they would like to sell ?
  Many Thanks,
Russ

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun  5 12:34:24 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:34:24 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Subway Tiger, I missed it by that much!
Message-ID: <002301c8c73a$c7d959c0$6601a8c0@your03667082de>

"Believe it or not, my ex-wife does some legal work for Subway
sweepstakes.  I asked if she could tell me more about the car, and she
refused, citing the attorney-client privilege."

Perhaps your wife could tell you the car info under "the cone of silence".  No
one else will hear you.   Although, I remember  in the show they had to shout
at one another to be heard.    Or maybe  you wife could "shoe phone" the info
to you.



                                                                             
                                         Jeff

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Jun  5 12:42:07 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:42:07 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Subway Tiger, I missed it by that much!
Message-ID: <c25.394f8921.35798d7f@aol.com>

I'd be curious to know the Vin #.  I could see where Subway  contracts with 
someone for a $50,000 car and gets and Alger without knowing  it.   To the 
general public they are one and the same.  
 
Maybe Subway's legal people should be aware of the potential  problem....thus 
she should be spilling her guts to you in the interest of her  client.  And 
I've learned women can be softened up with  flowers:-)
M
 



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Thu Jun  5 12:58:18 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:58:18 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Subway Tiger, I missed it by that much!
In-Reply-To: <c25.394f8921.35798d7f@aol.com>
References: <c25.394f8921.35798d7f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868F5A27@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Mark, I was thinking the exact same thing....rarely do I run into
someone who knows the difference between the two. Most people my age
don't even know what it is at least from what ive experienced... so it
would be conceivably very possible for even a major organization to get
it wrong...the car was probably obtained by a bunch of paperwork from
some teenage secretary or administrative person for subway who wouldn't
know the difference if their life depended on it.

A vin or some other data would be helpful. It might be there, I haven't
looked very hard. Again, even if it's a Pine with a V8....I would take
it for free and do something with it....but, it would be nice to know
for sure the history of the car.

C






I'd be curious to know the Vin #.  I could see where Subway  contracts
with
someone for a $50,000 car and gets and Alger without knowing  it.   To
the
general public they are one and the same.

Maybe Subway's legal people should be aware of the potential
problem....thus
she should be spilling her guts to you in the interest of her  client.
And
I've learned women can be softened up with  flowers:-)
M

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Thu Jun  5 13:20:03 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Subway Tiger, I missed it by that much!
In-Reply-To: <c25.394f8921.35798d7f@aol.com>
References: <c25.394f8921.35798d7f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48483C63.5080305@SoCal.rr.com>

Mark,

According to those who should know:
*
Flowers are Dandy, but Liquor is Quicker.*

;-)

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
> I'd be curious to know the Vin #.  I could see where Subway  contracts with 
> someone for a $50,000 car and gets and Alger without knowing  it.   To the 
> general public they are one and the same.  
>  
> Maybe Subway's legal people should be aware of the potential  problem....thus 
> she should be spilling her guts to you in the interest of her  client.  And 
> I've learned women can be softened up with  flowers:-)
> M

From achd73 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 15:28:07 2008
From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:28:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Subway Tiger, I missed it by that much!
In-Reply-To: <48483C63.5080305@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <208153.51893.qm@web30308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

IF, I was lucky enough and I am pretty dam lucky, I rather Subway and the public continue to think/believe it to be a Sunbeam Tiger. If they learn now, Im sure they could legally have time to make changes in the rules and I would bet they can. Then if the car is an Alger, thats what you would own BUT if the contest runs its course and then they would be obligated to award a REAL Tiger- of course thats in my opinion. I wouldnt surprise me at all that the car is an Alger and I doubt the person in charge of procurement has any idea themselves. Then again, the add says a car like Max's and the scenes certainly appear Alger . I rather wait to see. It would be great if a member won- just for the appreciation value and then the fight that the car isn't worth the approximately 55k, when you have to pay taxes. If it is determined to be of such value, then look for insurance rates to esclate again. It wasnt to many years ago I was paying what I considered cheap,
 for year round, full coverage, daily driver coverage- not so these days. TTT

From rspontelli at earthlink.net  Thu Jun  5 15:29:53 2008
From: rspontelli at earthlink.net (Ramon Spontelli)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 14:29:53 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Tigers] :  Get Smart Tiger & Subway Restaurant...
Message-ID: <25923586.1212701394060.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

<<Sorry to be picky Bill, but shouldn't you have started your message with
"Would you believe...">>

And ended it with "The old attorney-client-privilege trick!"

AND loving it!

Ramon

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Thu Jun  5 15:44:30 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 16:44:30 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] known number of Tigers?
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868F5A7D@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Listers,



I don't have a copy of the BON, does anyone know how many of the 7K +/-
Tigers produced are accounted for today? Obviously many were lost to
racing and other collisions, some rusted away or
even...gulp...crushed...It might be on Norman's or Steve's site, just
haven't noticed.



Cullen

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Thu Jun  5 15:48:46 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:48:46 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] known number of Tigers?
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F043@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

8000

;)


I think the right number is probably in the 2500-3000 range. The TAC
list is over 700, I believe.

Theo

From j_d_johnson at earthlink.net  Thu Jun  5 16:34:34 2008
From: j_d_johnson at earthlink.net (J D Johnson)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:34:34 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] known number of Tigers?
In-Reply-To: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868F5A7D@lwpb-email1.LWPB.lo cal>
References: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868F5A7D@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <E1K4O2X-0005fS-7T@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

It is on Norman's site.  Check out the gas 
pump:  http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rootes1/reg1.htm

JD


Cullen McCann wrote:
>I don't have a copy of the BON, does anyone know how many of the 7K +/-
>Tigers produced are accounted for today?...
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1485 - Release Date: 6/5/2008 10:07
AM

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Thu Jun  5 16:34:50 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 17:34:50 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] known number of Tigers?
In-Reply-To: <E1K4O2X-0005fS-7T@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868F5A7D@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
	<E1K4O2X-0005fS-7T@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868F5A8A@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

3,786....Thanks!



Subject: Re: [Tigers] known number of Tigers?

It is on Norman's site.  Check out the gas
pump:  http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rootes1/reg1.htm

JD


Cullen McCann wrote:
>I don't have a copy of the BON, does anyone know how many of the 7K +/-
>Tigers produced are accounted for today?...

From srwick at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 18:35:04 2008
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 17:35:04 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] known number of Tigers?
References: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868F5A7D@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local><E1K4O2X-0005fS-7T@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70868F5A8A@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV7AABB223EE2A98AFACBB1D8B70@phx.gbl>

+1. I'm just to far away from anyone to have had it tac'd yet. Norm seemed
pretty
sure when I gave him pics and info though.

Steve (in N.Id.)
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Cullen McCann<mailto:cmccann at lwpb.com>
  To: J D Johnson<mailto:j_d_johnson at earthlink.net>
  Cc: tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [Tigers] known number of Tigers?


  3,786....Thanks!



  Subject: Re: [Tigers] known number of Tigers?

  It is on Norman's site.  Check out the gas
  pump:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rootes1/reg1.htm<http://www.home.earthlinknet/
~rootes1/reg1.htm>

  JD


  Cullen McCann wrote:
  >I don't have a copy of the BON, does anyone know how many of the 7K +/-
  >Tigers produced are accounted for today?...
  _______________________________________________
  Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

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  http://www.team.net/archive<http://www.team.net/archive>

From jbbrown3 at tx.rr.com  Thu Jun  5 20:04:04 2008
From: jbbrown3 at tx.rr.com (Joe Brown)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 21:04:04 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Subway Tiger, I missed it by that much!
In-Reply-To: <c25.394f8921.35798d7f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20080606020407.UQNE8238.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@OfficePC>

Just remember, this $50,000 Tiger will cost somebody $10,000-$15,000 in
income taxes (depending on your bracket).

Thanks,
Joe Brown
B382000217

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jbbrown3=tx.rr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jbbrown3=tx.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
CoolVT at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 1:42 PM
To: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Subway Tiger, I missed it by that much!

I'd be curious to know the Vin #.  I could see where Subway  contracts with 
someone for a $50,000 car and gets and Alger without knowing  it.   To the 
general public they are one and the same.  
 
Maybe Subway's legal people should be aware of the potential
problem....thus 
she should be spilling her guts to you in the interest of her  client.  And 
I've learned women can be softened up with  flowers:-)
M
 



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
You are subscribed as jbbrown3 at tx.rr.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

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From rande at thecia.net  Fri Jun  6 04:29:52 2008
From: rande at thecia.net (rande)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 06:29:52 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] LANCO British Invade Gettysburg cancelled
Message-ID: <484911a0.55bb.0@thecia.net>

It was brought to our attention today that the LANCO British Invade
Gettysburg event on Sunday, July 6 has been cancelled.  We have it on the
centerfold calendar in the June issue.  We have updated the events on our
website to show it as cancelled and hope you will let your members know.
The good folks at LANCO do not want people to show up and be disappointed to

learn that the show was cancelled!

Faith Lamprey
The British Marque Car Club News

Forwarded by Rande Bellman

From dhhall at bellsouth.net  Fri Jun  6 05:17:15 2008
From: dhhall at bellsouth.net (dhhall at bellsouth.net)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:17:15 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>

My engine is at the shop, and I'd like some advice about ancillaries.  My goal is a largely stock, or period available, with adequate power for touring, and good driveability.  I have a Mk 1A, whose original 260 had too many freeze cracks to salvage.  I was able to buy an original Tiger 289, and it has needed to be bored .030 over.  I am retaining the original cast iron heads, new mild cam for a bit more torque, new taller valve springs, hardened valve seats.  I'm inclined to use the Edelbrock carb, but wondered 500 or 600 cfm?    I presume a manual choke.  Thin carb spacer?  Using the Mk 11 timing cover, must I use the cast iron water pump, or can I use the aluminum.  I don't think I want a high volume one.  For the flywheel, a lightened steel one, or aluminum?  And probably a Centerforce clutch, per the recent discussions.  Thanks for all the help, this list is great.  David

From twojohnsons at cox.net  Fri Jun  6 07:47:00 2008
From: twojohnsons at cox.net (Alvin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:47:00 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
Message-ID: <006201c8c7db$cb7496c0$084cdd48@13930193605348f>

Hi Dave,
    Jeez---At least replace those tired old heads. There are some 
aftermarket iron ones around, or you can paint the aluminum ones. Aluminum 
heads give power & actually can run  w/out knocking on 87 octane. They'll 
run cooler, too---a bonus for a Tiger.
    I run a "baby crower" cam in my Mustang to retain the idle quality & 
give great torque. But to improve the HPower you need attend to the big 
3---Heads, Cam, and Intake (or a power adder).
    Why in the world would you want to spend all that $$$ and still have a 
car that can't even keep up with a Toyota?
Al J 

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Fri Jun  6 08:07:02 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:07:02 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Caught in the act...
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F045@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I was trying to dig up some smallblock Ford valve size specs for a reply to
David Hall when I came across this newsclip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf_6wkNoo-E

Interesting stuff... The story is obviously not accurate in all its details
but it looks like a lot of people aren't going to get what they were
expecting.


Theo

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Fri Jun  6 08:34:11 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:34:11 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F046@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Are the original iron heads you're planning to keep, the 260 ones? You
should be careful (CC the heads) to not end up with an unworkable high
compression ratio. Either 260 or 289 heads will have 1.67/1.45" intake
and exhaust valves, while later 302 and 5.0 heads have 1.78" intake
valves.
351W heads use 1.84/1.54" valves, and 1.94" intake valves are available
in the aftermarket. If you're rebuilding heads and installing hardened
valve seats, then there is little extra cost involved in changing the
valve size, provided that the casting has enough beef in the right
places and you're willing to do the required porting afterwards, at
least to clean up the valve bowls. The OEM Ford heads are all going to
be pretty close to identical on external inspection, so you should
figure out if it's worth refurbishing 40 year old heads compared to a
set that could be half the age and have better drivability.
For street drivability a smaller carb will give better results because
the higher air velocity gives a stronger vacuum signal.

If the Tiger 289 you got is an actual 6 bolt block then you'll need to
source an appropriate bellhousing. If you got a 5-bolt 289 then it's not
an "original Tiger" piece but it will be far easier to retrofit that to
the existing bellhousing and transmission.

Hope this helps,
Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of dhhall at bellsouth.net
Sent: June 6, 2008 5:17 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries

My engine is at the shop, and I'd like some advice about ancillaries.
My goal is a largely stock, or period available, with adequate power for
touring, and good driveability.  I have a Mk 1A, whose original 260 had
too many freeze cracks to salvage.  I was able to buy an original Tiger
289, and it has needed to be bored .030 over.  I am retaining the
original cast iron heads, new mild cam for a bit more torque, new taller
valve springs, hardened valve seats.  I'm inclined to use the Edelbrock
carb, but wondered 500 or 600 cfm?    I presume a manual choke.  Thin
carb spacer?  Using the Mk 11 timing cover, must I use the cast iron
water pump, or can I use the aluminum.  I don't think I want a high
volume one.  For the flywheel, a lightened steel one, or aluminum?  And
probably a Centerforce clutch, per the recent discussions.  Thanks for
all the help, this list is great.  David
You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com

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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Fri Jun  6 10:48:03 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:48:03 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Caught in the act...
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F045@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <005601c8c7f5$1616b140$0202a8c0@student2>

Gee..., I hope that all 61 of the Mustangs don't end up being crushed 
because of the VIN issue! Do they have stamped on body VIN's too, or like 
the Tiger can they have a "floating" identity?
Tom 
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AM

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  6 10:57:01 2008
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:57:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Caught in the act...
In-Reply-To: <005601c8c7f5$1616b140$0202a8c0@student2>
Message-ID: <629336.33840.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Crushing such cars sure seems like a very narrow minded solution. Hopefully all the new components can at least be salvaged if it's only the core body shell that's at issue.

--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Thomas Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Thomas Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Caught in the act...
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 12:48 PM
> Gee..., I hope that all 61 of the Mustangs don't end up
> being crushed 
> because of the VIN issue! Do they have stamped on body
> VIN's too, or like 
> the Tiger can they have a "floating" identity?
> Tom 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1487 - Release
> Date: 6/6/2008 8:01
> AM
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as gswaybright at yahoo.com
> 
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Fri Jun  6 11:00:48 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:00:48 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Caught in the act...
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F049@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I did a bit more checking and it turns out that newsclip was from last
fall. Unique Performance has since declared bankruptcy (financial in
addition to moral ;)) and an auction was held earlier this year to raise
cash so that the investors and clients could recoup some of their money.
That auction raised under a million so they're doing another round near
the end of June. Apparently some of the bodyshells are not constructed
with a great deal of care - there's stories of 5-gallon cans of bondo in
the trunks of some cars.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Stephen Waybright
Sent: June 6, 2008 10:57 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net; Thomas Witt
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Caught in the act...

Crushing such cars sure seems like a very narrow minded solution.
Hopefully all the new components can at least be salvaged if it's only
the core body shell that's at issue.

--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Thomas Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Thomas Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Caught in the act...
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 12:48 PM
> Gee..., I hope that all 61 of the Mustangs don't end up being crushed
> because of the VIN issue! Do they have stamped on body VIN's too, or
> like the Tiger can they have a "floating" identity?
> Tom
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.0.0/1487 - Release
> Date: 6/6/2008 8:01
> AM
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as gswaybright at yahoo.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
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From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun  6 11:04:46 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:04:46 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
Message-ID: <48496E2E.9060905@SoCal.rr.com>

David,

A partial reply to your questions.

Do not forget to pay attention to the cooling system.  It isn't adequate 
for the 260, much less a modified 289.

Easy reference:

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp

My Holley 4 BBL, on the LAT manifold, is 432 CFM has an electric choke, 
which works quite well.  This is the original LAT carb and still 
available, new, at Sunbeam Specialties. You might be able to use the 600 
cfm version, but on many Tigers this results in stumble on sudden 
throttle mash, due to "overcarburation".  May be suitable for the 289 
version, but pay attention to carb tuning (jet sizes, orifices, etc.)

Steve

Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



dhhall at bellsouth.net wrote:
> My engine is at the shop, and I'd like some advice about ancillaries.  My goal is a largely stock, or period available, with adequate power for touring, and good driveability.  I have a Mk 1A, whose original 260 had too many freeze cracks to salvage.  I was able to buy an original Tiger 289, and it has needed to be bored .030 over.  I am retaining the original cast iron heads, new mild cam for a bit more torque, new taller valve springs, hardened valve seats.  I'm inclined to use the Edelbrock carb, but wondered 500 or 600 cfm?    I presume a manual choke.  Thin carb spacer?  Using the Mk 11 timing cover, must I use the cast iron water pump, or can I use the aluminum.  I don't think I want a high volume one.  For the flywheel, a lightened steel one, or aluminum?  And probably a Centerforce clutch, per the recent discussions.  Thanks for all the help, this list is great.  David

From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Jun  6 11:07:14 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 13:07:14 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Caught in the act...
Message-ID: <c25.3971e379.357ac8c2@aol.com>

Before the fraud was discovered were all the cars sold  privately or were 
some going at major auctions?
M



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 11:18:43 2008
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:18:43 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Caught in the act...
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F045@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
	<005601c8c7f5$1616b140$0202a8c0@student2>
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV7675AA3744B8F9B60AA5EC1B70@phx.gbl>

The 67 Mustang's had a vin plate that was riveted to the door (which got 
removed and rerivited if you ever replaced the drivers door).  They also had 
it stamped in the metal in the location shown in the video.  I believe in 68 
the new federal standards for VIN numbers was instituted and then they had 
the VIN number you could see in the windshield like today's cars plus some 
other location (not sure as I am only familiar with the 67).

I've always thought those early mustangs must have easily been chopped up 
and resold cars, because of the vin numbers (the one on my car is BARELY 
readable to begin with).

There was a news article last year I think how a guy got his Mustang back 
after something like 35 years.  It was stolen and resold and the next owner 
had it purchased for her from her father as a going to college car, which 
she held onto for many years.  I think she even had it restored at one time, 
and then she finally decided to sell it and then when someone ran the VIN 
number and found that it was reported stolen that many years ago, and they 
returned the car to original owner.

 I thought it that report though the VIN number was correct on the new 
owners title, so I don't know how the state missed that for so many years.

Steve



> Gee..., I hope that all 61 of the Mustangs don't end up being crushed
> because of the VIN issue! Do they have stamped on body VIN's too, or like
> the Tiger can they have a "floating" identity?
> Tom

From rootes1 at earthlink.net  Fri Jun  6 11:43:52 2008
From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:43:52 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] SUBWAY
Message-ID: <E1K4fym-0004ts-26@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

At least the vehicle use for the display is a genuine factory built 
Sunbeam Tiger.  And it is the car that was being offered by Fantasy Junction.

http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/special-help/getsmartpromo.jpg

ncm
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
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AM

From sawhill at att.net  Fri Jun  6 11:47:53 2008
From: sawhill at att.net (Kenda Sawhill)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Unique Performance
Message-ID: <990313.51084.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I had read on the Foose web site a while back that he had terminated all relations with Unique and had wondered what had happened. I guess now I know. I believe they were the ones building the Foose Mustang and I think they had a hand in the Foose coupe.
   
  Mac Sawhill

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Fri Jun  6 12:12:23 2008
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:12:23 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Caught in the act
In-Reply-To: <mailman.17.1212775202.25143.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <OF81D1872E.E31A2247-ON88257460.0063C9E1-88257460.006402D6@countrywide.com>

From: "Tigerman" <Tigerman67 at hotmail.com>

[snip]

There was a news article last year I think how a guy got his Mustang back 
after something like 35 years.  It was stolen and resold and the next 
owner 
had it purchased for her from her father as a going to college car, which 
she held onto for many years.  I think she even had it restored at one 
time, 
and then she finally decided to sell it and then when someone ran the VIN 
number and found that it was reported stolen that many years ago, and they 

returned the car to original owner.
[snip].

Actually, she wasn't selling it.  And, in the end, the original owner, in 
his late 60's, came down to pick up the car, drove it around the block, 
then offered to sell it to her for $5 or some little amount like that, 
which she paid.

The articles are on the net somewhere.

Jay

======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

======================================================================

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Fri Jun  6 12:15:46 2008
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:15:46 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Fw: Caught in the act
Message-ID: <OF7C866132.0842C44F-ON88257460.00641E98-88257460.00645260@countrywide.com>

Whoops.  I was wrong.  She was trying to sell it, and he is 80.
 
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/21/local/me-mustang21

I'm trying to find the article where he drove it and sold it back.



----- Forwarded by Jay Laifman/Attorney/Legal/CF/CCI on 06/06/2008 11:13 
AM -----

Jay Laifman/Attorney/Legal/CF/CCI
06/06/2008 11:12 AM

To
tigers at autox.team.net
cc

Subject
Re: Caught in the act






From: "Tigerman" <Tigerman67 at hotmail.com>

[snip]

There was a news article last year I think how a guy got his Mustang back 
after something like 35 years.  It was stolen and resold and the next 
owner 
had it purchased for her from her father as a going to college car, which 
she held onto for many years.  I think she even had it restored at one 
time, 
and then she finally decided to sell it and then when someone ran the VIN 
number and found that it was reported stolen that many years ago, and they 

returned the car to original owner.
[snip].

Actually, she wasn't selling it.  And, in the end, the original owner, in 
his late 60's, came down to pick up the car, drove it around the block, 
then offered to sell it to her for $5 or some little amount like that, 
which she paid.

The articles are on the net somewhere.

Jay

======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

======================================================================

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Fri Jun  6 12:22:38 2008
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:22:38 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Ok, $38 not $5 on stolen Mustang
Message-ID: <OFB4CBE85D.165D067A-ON88257460.0064DC53-88257460.0064F35B@countrywide.com>

>From another car list:

The television news just reported that the true owner of the car came down 
to San Diego, got in the car and drove it out of Judy Smongesky's 
driveway. 

Apparently, he drove it around the block and brought it back. He offered 
to sell it to Smongesky and she accepted.

The sale price was $38 (a dollar for each year that she has had the car).
__________________

======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

======================================================================

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Jun  6 12:37:40 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:37:40 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] its stuck!
Message-ID: <39a841b0806061137r4d90202w540901fed46c9dea@mail.gmail.com>

i've spend the afternoon attempting to remove my engine.  all went
well until i tried to lower the engine out of the bottom on a
hydraulic lift.
whatever i do, the front pipe or front two pipes of the headers jam in
the frame rail.  the only idea i have is to remove the headers (or at
least one side), but access to the rear bolts with the engine still in
the car is going to be extremely hard.

i guess this is normal?

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 12:44:11 2008
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:44:11 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Wikipedia
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV8AA13B75D93799A407783C1B70@phx.gbl>

I noticed that Wikipedia now has an article on the Sunbeam tiger.

I noticed what I believe to be several factual errors on the page.  Thought 
I would see what the consensus of the board was concerning what SHOULD be 
written there.

Also, I am not a normal Wikipedia contributor, but I believe they are big 
about wanting as many references as possible to back up the facts, so anyone 
interested in changing the content would need to make sure to reference as 
many sources as possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam_Tiger

Steve 

From racetig at verizon.net  Fri Jun  6 12:48:53 2008
From: racetig at verizon.net (Rob)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:48:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Unique In Dallas
Message-ID: <4270224.7800111212778133899.JavaMail.root@vms061.mailsrvcs.net>

Everything was sold via on-line auction.  It cost $150 to register.  That was applied against any items you won.  I went over and inspected a lot of stuff I was interested in.  The two warehouses were crawling with FORD gearheads.  It took two auctions to finally liquidate everything.  Both Foose and Shelby had ties to this operation.  They divorced themselves of Unique in a hurry when the pooh hit the fan.  In the end, greed was the undoing.  

All the shop tools, floor fans, lights, autographed memorabilia, chairs, etc. were in the auction.  There were several "shells" that were sold.  There were piles of Foose custom wheels, complete posi rearends but much was sold in large lots.  So if you needed a rear end, you might have to buy 10...  An interesting auction to say the least...

Rob

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Fri Jun  6 12:52:27 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:52:27 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Wikipedia
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F04C@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I updated the Wikipedia entry on the Tiger a few years ago. Since then
it's been edited further, but I'm not sure who the other contributors
are. What are the factual errors?

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Tigerman
Sent: June 6, 2008 12:44 PM
To: Tiger List
Subject: [Tigers] Wikipedia

I noticed that Wikipedia now has an article on the Sunbeam tiger.

I noticed what I believe to be several factual errors on the page.
Thought I would see what the consensus of the board was concerning what
SHOULD be written there.

Also, I am not a normal Wikipedia contributor, but I believe they are
big about wanting as many references as possible to back up the facts,
so anyone interested in changing the content would need to make sure to
reference as many sources as possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam_Tiger

Steve
You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From e.coiner at cox.net  Fri Jun  6 13:55:35 2008
From: e.coiner at cox.net (e.coiner at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:55:35 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
Message-ID: <20080606155535.RZUUH.108497.imail@fed1rmwml15>

I have a 500 cfm edelbrock on my nearly stock 260.  It works great, good driveablility.

As others have said, if your 289 is a 6 bolt bellhousing design you will need to change bell housings and clutch slave cylinder mounting bracket.
The bell housing change is not clean because the original Tiger 4 speed only has the small ear bolt pattern. All commonly available 6 bolt bellhousings only have the large ear pattern.  If you switch to a Tiger MkII toploader or a T5 5 speed you avoid this problem

The mkII timing cover uses a Ford Cast iron water pump with a metal backing plate built in.  You will need this style pump or an aftermarket Hi Flow pump for this application.
IMHO the best money you can spend on this rebuild is to buy an Edelbrock Aluminum high flow water pump.  I fought cooling problems on my Tiger for close to a year and a half.  I followed every on line Tiger cooling article and the advice of those on this list.  The car would still overheat at speed on the highway or climbing hills.  Changed the water pump and the car now runs 200 F tops. Does not over heat at idle, in traffic or on the open road.  I have learned to watch the scenery while driving instead of the dash board :)  

I would leave the flywheel stock.

Erich


---- dhhall at bellsouth.net wrote: 
> My engine is at the shop, and I'd like some advice about ancillaries.  My goal is a largely stock, or period available, with adequate power for touring, and good driveability.  I have a Mk 1A, whose original 260 had too many freeze cracks to salvage.  I was able to buy an original Tiger 289, and it has needed to be bored .030 over.  I am retaining the original cast iron heads, new mild cam for a bit more torque, new taller valve springs, hardened valve seats.  I'm inclined to use the Edelbrock carb, but wondered 500 or 600 cfm?    I presume a manual choke.  Thin carb spacer?  Using the Mk 11 timing cover, must I use the cast iron water pump, or can I use the aluminum.  I don't think I want a high volume one.  For the flywheel, a lightened steel one, or aluminum?  And probably a Centerforce clutch, per the recent discussions.  Thanks for all the help, this list is great.  David
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as e.coiner at cox.net
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Fri Jun  6 14:25:57 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 14:25:57 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F04E@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I would argue that changing to a low-inertia flywheel is an easy, safe,
and relatively inexpensive way to improve the acceleration performance
of the Tiger. Also, since it's inside the bellhousing, there's no issue
with stock appearance.

As far as "period availability" goes, you have to think that at least
some of the race car builders in 1964 had figured out the benefits of
light flywheels. I've never heard or read of details on the clutch and
flywheel used in the HSC Tiger, but I'd be surprised if that was a stone
left unturned by Doane Spencer.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of e.coiner at cox.net
Sent: June 6, 2008 1:56 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net; dhhall at bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries

<snip>

I would leave the flywheel stock.

Erich

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 14:50:24 2008
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 14:50:24 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Wikipedia
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F04C@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV10C2B44F9FBF7B060D72BBC1B70@phx.gbl>

I thought that the Ken Miles Car was the simple feasibility prototype (as 
stated) and was prototype #1 (its stated as #2) , and the more complete 
prototype done by Shelby's shop was #2 (its stated as #1).

I'm not an expert so I was hoping to get the people who are experts on the 
board involved it to insure it is accurate.  Probably could be alot more 
info out there as well, as long as it is well referenced it might make a 
nice tiger overview, as most people I run into have no idea what a Sunbeam 
tiger is, but do know to either Google or Wikipedia something they are 
interested in.

As far as who the contributors are on Wikipedia, anyone who is wiling to log 
into Wikipedia can update any entry, so it is controlled by community 
policing only.  In the past I updated one obscure article on Wikipedia, so I 
am not really claiming to be a Wikipedia expert either.  I just know it is 
tough to justify a change if you don't have a reference to back it up, and 
the change I made was related to personal experience which I couldn't find 
records to verify it.

So I choose not to update anything on the tiger article hoping people with 
more knowledge than myself would have the best and most complete info.

Steve


I updated the Wikipedia entry on the Tiger a few years ago. Since then
it's been edited further, but I'm not sure who the other contributors
are. What are the factual errors?

Theo


I noticed that Wikipedia now has an article on the Sunbeam tiger.

I noticed what I believe to be several factual errors on the page.
Thought I would see what the consensus of the board was concerning what
SHOULD be written there.

Also, I am not a normal Wikipedia contributor, but I believe they are
big about wanting as many references as possible to back up the facts,
so anyone interested in changing the content would need to make sure to
reference as many sources as possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam_Tiger

Steve 

From rootes1 at earthlink.net  Sat Jun  7 10:55:30 2008
From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 09:55:30 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] CROSS-DRESSER
Message-ID: <E1K51hY-0002Q9-HY@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I thought you should know about this little depiction.  If you have 
the chance, spread the word.

http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/special-help/alger-alert.jpg

ncm
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Checked by AVG.
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From slaughy at rogers.com  Sat Jun  7 13:47:50 2008
From: slaughy at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 15:47:50 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Three
Message-ID: <007801c8c8d7$5eac4090$6501a8c0@main>

Greetings, All.
 
Okay, so I've spent the past few hours getting reacquainted with working
in a Tiger engine bay.  It's true, what they say, about the incredible
ability of the human mind to completely blank out traumatic experiences
from our memories.  I'd forgotten how many pieces have to be taken off
just to get enough room to complete a few simple tasks!
 
So, here is what I have found so far:
 
1.    With the timing marks at TDC, the #1 piston does seem to be at
TDC.  Movement either way on the crank seems to only result in the
piston going down.  Therefore, the balancer should be okay.
2.    Again, with the timing marks at TDC, the rotor looks to be
slightly beyond cylinder #1 position, which I guess would reflect the
advance that I have dialled in.  
3.    I tried grabbing the rotor and turning it, and it is quite easy to
move it a few degrees in each direction, but not more than that (I don't
want to twist on it too hard).  It seems to me that there is always some
play in distributors, but this does perhaps seem a bit excessive.  Also,
I have always found distributors to be spring-loaded, in that it is
possible to move the rotor a bit, but that it will always snap back into
position as soon as you let go (mechanical advance).  In the case of my
distributor, it will stay wherever it is left.
4.   It is important to take the car out of gear before trying to turn
the engine over by hand.  =)
5.   Cold beer is great on a hot day.
 
So, seeing as the distributor housing can rotate independently of the
shaft and rotor, my tests do not necessarily eliminate the possibility
that the timing gears/chain have slipped, but I think that this is vary
unlikely.  I've decided to replace the distributor with a vacuum advance
unit while I'm in there, and have decided on a Pertronix billet
distributor.  I found a pretty good deal on it, it is simple to install,
and it doesn't look too drastically different from stock. I also should
never have to worry about it slipping.
 
That's the progress so far.  I'm doing a compression test and changing
the plugs while I'm in there, and will let everyone know what the result
is when I get it back together.
 
Cheers,
Shaun 

From jim at island.net  Sat Jun  7 14:46:09 2008
From: jim at island.net (Jim)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:46:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Three
In-Reply-To: <007801c8c8d7$5eac4090$6501a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <043201c8c8df$84196c60$4101a8c0@JIMPC>

..." I've decided to replace the distributor with a vacuum advance
unit while I'm in there, and have decided on a Pertronix billet
distributor.  I found a pretty good deal on it, it is simple to install,
and it doesn't look too drastically different from stock."...



I have a mechanical advance Pertronics and it works great!!!...but it DOES
have a Chevy cap on it... :(

Jim
B382000446


-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Shaun
Laughy
Sent: June 7, 2008 12:48 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Three

Greetings, All.
 
Okay, so I've spent the past few hours getting reacquainted with working
in a Tiger engine bay.  It's true, what they say, about the incredible
ability of the human mind to completely blank out traumatic experiences
from our memories.  I'd forgotten how many pieces have to be taken off
just to get enough room to complete a few simple tasks!
 
So, here is what I have found so far:
 
1.    With the timing marks at TDC, the #1 piston does seem to be at
TDC.  Movement either way on the crank seems to only result in the
piston going down.  Therefore, the balancer should be okay.
2.    Again, with the timing marks at TDC, the rotor looks to be
slightly beyond cylinder #1 position, which I guess would reflect the
advance that I have dialled in.  
3.    I tried grabbing the rotor and turning it, and it is quite easy to
move it a few degrees in each direction, but not more than that (I don't
want to twist on it too hard).  It seems to me that there is always some
play in distributors, but this does perhaps seem a bit excessive.  Also,
I have always found distributors to be spring-loaded, in that it is
possible to move the rotor a bit, but that it will always snap back into
position as soon as you let go (mechanical advance).  In the case of my
distributor, it will stay wherever it is left.
4.   It is important to take the car out of gear before trying to turn
the engine over by hand.  =)
5.   Cold beer is great on a hot day.
 
So, seeing as the distributor housing can rotate independently of the
shaft and rotor, my tests do not necessarily eliminate the possibility
that the timing gears/chain have slipped, but I think that this is vary
unlikely.  I've decided to replace the distributor with a vacuum advance
unit while I'm in there, and have decided on a Pertronix billet
distributor.  I found a pretty good deal on it, it is simple to install,
and it doesn't look too drastically different from stock. I also should
never have to worry about it slipping.
 
That's the progress so far.  I'm doing a compression test and changing
the plugs while I'm in there, and will let everyone know what the result
is when I get it back together.
 
Cheers,
Shaun 
You are subscribed as jim at island.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun  7 17:36:40 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:36:40 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <48496E2E.9060905@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
	<48496E2E.9060905@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <484B1B88.9070601@SoCal.rr.com>

Tigers,

Racing is a great passion. Who can forget the thrill of a win for a 
running in last place to pull ahead of ALL the competition in the last 
run to the finish line, and *win* the race. Especially with today's 
exciting broadcast.

I never saw this race, but I heard in on my father's 78 rpm record.

Here (I hope) is announcer Joe Hernandez calling the last stretch. A 
CLASSIC WIN.

"R/eturn with us, now, to those thrilling days of yesteryear, from out 
of the past ...../"

Listen to the progress of the last racer.

http://www.secondrunning.com/mal2.wav

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From Sjhcobra1 at cs.com  Sat Jun  7 20:37:40 2008
From: Sjhcobra1 at cs.com (Sjhcobra1 at cs.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 22:37:40 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Engine Woes - Part Three
Message-ID: <ca0.314d0d44.357c9ff4@cs.com>

Shaun:

When you install the Pertronix distributor be sure that it fits all the way 
down and seats into the cam gear.  Two years ago Pertronix had a design flaw 
and the distributors would not seat properly.  Hopefully they have fixed their 
problem.

Steve Halbrook

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sun Jun  8 11:34:07 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 10:34:07 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] The Great Race
Message-ID: <484C180F.7060408@SoCal.rr.com>

Tigers,

Racing is a great passion. 

Who can forget the thrill of a win for a last place runner to pull ahead 
in the last turn and win the race.  Especially with today's exciting 
broadcast.

I never saw this race, but I heard in on my father's 78 rpm record.

Here is announcer Joe Hernandez calling the last lap.  A CLASSIC WIN.

"Return with us, now, to those thrilling days of yesteryear, from out of 
the past ....."

http://www.secondrunning.com/mal2.wav

SPEAKERS ON!

Steve
-- 
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sun Jun  8 12:21:13 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:21:13 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] The Great Race
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806081109wa288adfrfca9d37ea58e1c31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <484C180F.7060408@SoCal.rr.com>
	<39a841b0806081109wa288adfrfca9d37ea58e1c31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <484C2319.3050704@SoCal.rr.com>

Owain, and Tigers,

Yes, it is.
Yes, I did - BUT:

   1. I thought I did.
   2. I didn't see it in my Inbox, so thought it  didn't go through.
   3. So I unknowingly sent a duplicate

Sorry for the error. I remembered that race recording since I was a kid.

Apologies.  :'(

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Owain Lloyd wrote:
> steve,
> is this horse racing?  didn't you send this yesterday?
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Steve Laifman <SLaifman at socal.rr.com> wrote:
>   
>> Tigers,
>>
>> Racing is a great passion.
>>
>> Who can forget the thrill of a win for a last place runner to pull ahead
>> in the last turn and win the race.  Especially with today's exciting
>> broadcast.
<---- snip ---->

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Sun Jun  8 12:30:10 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:30:10 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] The Great Race
In-Reply-To: <484C2319.3050704@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <484C180F.7060408@SoCal.rr.com>
	<39a841b0806081109wa288adfrfca9d37ea58e1c31@mail.gmail.com>
	<484C2319.3050704@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806081130w183e4628mcd9fb9c16816e577@mail.gmail.com>

:)  none needed!  just browsing that site ... quite an education.

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Steve Laifman <SLaifman at socal.rr.com> wrote:
> Owain, and Tigers,
>
> Yes, it is.
> Yes, I did - BUT:
>
> I thought I did.
> I didn't see it in my Inbox, so thought it  didn't go through.
> So I unknowingly sent a duplicate
>
> Sorry for the error. I remembered that race recording since I was a kid.
>
> Apologies.  :'(
>
> Steve
>
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
>
>
> Owain Lloyd wrote:
>
> steve,
> is this horse racing?  didn't you send this yesterday?
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Steve Laifman <SLaifman at socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Tigers,
>
> Racing is a great passion.
>
> Who can forget the thrill of a win for a last place runner to pull ahead
> in the last turn and win the race.  Especially with today's exciting
> broadcast.
>
> <---- snip ---->

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Sun Jun  8 12:41:38 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:41:38 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] tiger gets a mention in latest james bond
Message-ID: <39a841b0806081141l3fb3064ck85ea461c57e91672@mail.gmail.com>

i spent much of my day lounging on the terrace and reading the latest
007 book which is pretty light to say the least.   i perked up as bond
explains to his female companion (who's driving an alpine) the
difference between the alpine and the tiger!  bond apparently thinks
the alpine chassis can't handle the v8 torque :)

From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com  Sun Jun  8 17:20:23 2008
From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy))
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:20:23 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] timing
Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF09B6F2CD@norn32.d30.intra>

OK Shaun,

It looks like you found the problem ... it sounds to me like the advance
spring broker or fell off. This could have been due to the jarring.
Swapping the distributor should correct the problem but I would LOVE to
hear the outcome.



Best Regards,



Tim Ronak

Services Consultant

Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc.

PH: 949-305-5393

Cell: 949-289-3357

FX: 425-955-6268

Email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com
<mailto:timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com>

Personal Email: timronak at cox.net <mailto:timronak at cox.net>



If you received this message in error please inform the sender and
delete the message.

From tigerv8 at rogers.com  Sun Jun  8 18:31:28 2008
From: tigerv8 at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 20:31:28 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] timing
In-Reply-To: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF09B6F2CD@norn32.d30.intra>
Message-ID: <00b501c8c9c8$28acbaf0$6501a8c0@main>

Hi, Tim.
 
Well, I HOPE I have found the problem, but won't know for sure for a
while yet.  I had a few hours to work on the car today, and spent most
of it trying to retrieve the spark plug that I dropped down into the
driver's side motor mount.  I bet I'm not the only person ever to do
that...
 
What I learned today?
 
1.    Don't drop a spark plug into a Tiger motor mount!
2.    My valve cover bolts were only finger tight.  This likely explains
the occasional drop of oil that I was getting on the garage floor, so I
am happy to find it.  I was also reminded of how hard it is to get at
some of the valve cover bolts on a Tiger.
3.    My radiator is currently held on with only two bolts.
4.    Spark plug wires for cylinder 7 and 8 were run side-by-side, which
I understand to be a bad thing?
5.    Cold beer is really good on a hot day.  Okay, I was pretty sure
about this one already, but I firmly believe in a scientific approach
involving repeated experimentation within a controlled environment.  So
far, my findings have been very consistent...
 
Don't get the wrong impression -- this is a very solid car with
high-quality components and workmanship throughout.  I am just glad to
have the opportunity to go through it to get to know it better, and
discover the little things that need attention here and there.  Having
fun, but my hands are very sore after working on the plugs today!
 
I had managed to avoid pulling the radiator so far, but will be doing
that next as I want to put the Ford 6-blade fan back on instead of the
flex fan that was on there.  I have seen the damage these can do when
they come apart -- my neighbour has a big hole in the hood of his '67
Camaro were one blade departed and went right through like it was made
of paper!  I have visions of pedestrians being decapitated whenever I
think about this...
 
I'm going to try to do some work on it this week, and will keep everyone
posted.
 
Cheers,
Shaun  
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronak, TP (Timothy) [mailto:Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com] 
Sent: June 8, 2008 7:20 PM
To: slaughy at rogers.com
Cc: Tiger News Group List
Subject: timing



OK Shaun,

It looks like you found the problem . it sounds to me like the advance
spring broker or fell off. This could have been due to the jarring.
Swapping the distributor should correct the problem but I would LOVE to
hear the outcome.

 

Best Regards,

 

Tim Ronak

Services Consultant

Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc.

PH: 949-305-5393

Cell: 949-289-3357

FX: 425-955-6268

Email:  <mailto:timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com>
timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com

Personal Email:  <mailto:timronak at cox.net> timronak at cox.net 

 

If you received this message in error please inform the sender and
delete the message.

From sganz at pacbell.net  Sun Jun  8 18:38:04 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:38:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Stuff for sale
Message-ID: <920589.14328.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am doing some garage cleaning, and did it the easy way by putting it on a web page. Not much specific for the Tiger, but some Small Block Ford stuff and Mustang Stuff. This stuff is all for local pick up, and if anyone has any interest give me a holler.
http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/ForSale.html
Sandy

From mark.rense at ge.com  Mon Jun  9 09:35:40 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:35:40 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04BC21D0@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

David,
I posted this a few months ago when someone else asked for engine
opinions. I have just over 9,500 miles on this rebuild, a 1000 of which
were this last weekend in 95+ temps going to the Louisville Brit bash. I
highly recommend going to the aluminum heads, they work well and its
cheaper than rebuilding a set of old ones.

--------
I bought a 5-bolt 289 short block from a fellow Tiger member, then
bought the Edelbrock alum Performer Plus heads, Comp Cams 262H cam, KB
.030-over 9.5:1 hypereutectic pistons, rods and all the internals. I had
it built by Stockman Engines through Doug Jennings. Total cost was
around $4500. With stock cast headers, F4B intake manifold, 500 CFM
Edelbrock carb, dual-point distributor (with Pertronix), and 1.75"
exhaust it still makes over 240 at the rear wheel at a reasonable 5200
rpm. I wanted a long-lasting, torquey engine that was manageable and was
period correct. So far, with a little over 8K miles on the engine, my
expectations have been met.

I up-graded the brakes and suspension accordingly, the car is balanced
and just a blast to drive. I also own a very original Tiger with an
untouched stock power train. I put it on the dyno just for giggles, it
made a whopping 132 HP at 4200 rpm. Much room for improvement here,
although the car is a very pleasant highway cruiser.

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
dhhall at bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:17 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries

My engine is at the shop, and I'd like some advice about ancillaries.
My goal is a largely stock, or period available, with adequate power for
touring, and good driveability.  I have a Mk 1A, whose original 260 had
too many freeze cracks to salvage.  I was able to buy an original Tiger
289, and it has needed to be bored .030 over.  I am retaining the
original cast iron heads, new mild cam for a bit more torque, new taller
valve springs, hardened valve seats.  I'm inclined to use the Edelbrock
carb, but wondered 500 or 600 cfm?    I presume a manual choke.  Thin
carb spacer?  Using the Mk 11 timing cover, must I use the cast iron
water pump, or can I use the aluminum.  I don't think I want a high
volume one.  For the flywheel, a lightened steel one, or aluminum?  And
probably a Centerforce clutch, per the recent discussions.  Thanks for
all the help, this list is great.  David
You are subscribed as mark.rense at ge.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Mon Jun  9 10:17:21 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:17:21 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] machine it or replace it?
Message-ID: <39a841b0806090917p89d8d46ucd4e339b9cfc079b@mail.gmail.com>

everything is super expensive in england so i'm faced with a choice -
have my flywheel machined for $150 or buy a new cast one for $180.
(steel flywheels are over $450 here...).

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Mon Jun  9 10:39:00 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 10:39:00 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] machine it or replace it?
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F055@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Summit Racing has the Ford M-6375-A302 steel flywheel (25.5 pounds) at
$219.95, and the 21 pound cast-iron flywheel (M6375-B302) at $99.95.
These are 28.2 oz-in imbalance flywheels - if you have a 5.0 then you'll
need different parts. Summit lists over 50 different flywheels for the
302/5.0 engine family, so you would have to do some checking to make
sure your choice is correct for your driveline.

I know shipping across the pond will cost you (as will import duty and
VAT) but it shouldn't cost you over $100 to get it over there.

If you're just getting the flywheel resurfaced then it's probably easier
to just get it done locally.

Theo

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Mon Jun  9 10:59:47 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:59:47 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] machine it or replace it?
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F055@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
References: <AcjKTHdXU/t/Di3WR1iJw+qoAIbi1AAAaFyw>
	<60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F055@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806090959q41b34773tf592de14f3b11355@mail.gmail.com>

is there an accepted rpm limit for cast flywheels or would a steel one
be recommended for 6000rpm?

sadly Summit only ship to the US and in fact i've already ordered
$1000 worth of parts from them this morning to have a colleague bring
over for me next week - but a flywheel is pushing it - its kind of
anti-social to ask someone to carry that over for you :)



On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Smit, Theo <Theo.Smit at dynastream.com> wrote:
> Summit Racing has the Ford M-6375-A302 steel flywheel (25.5 pounds) at
> $219.95, and the 21 pound cast-iron flywheel (M6375-B302) at $99.95.
> These are 28.2 oz-in imbalance flywheels - if you have a 5.0 then you'll
> need different parts. Summit lists over 50 different flywheels for the
> 302/5.0 engine family, so you would have to do some checking to make
> sure your choice is correct for your driveline.
>
> I know shipping across the pond will cost you (as will import duty and
> VAT) but it shouldn't cost you over $100 to get it over there.
>
> If you're just getting the flywheel resurfaced then it's probably easier
> to just get it done locally.
>
> Theo

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Mon Jun  9 14:58:46 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 21:58:46 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
Message-ID: <39a841b0806091358o50fe5f28u26b56af830530d46@mail.gmail.com>

i do apologize for the recent flood of incompetent questions!  one day
i promise to buy you all a beer....

i just checked my old flywheel and it turns out to be the 50oz" type
from '82.  my engine is a '72 mexico block 302.

now either the PO had the wrong flywheel (i was suffering from
vibrations!) or the engine has been rebuilt with a crank and balancer
for the later 50oz" imbalance.  fortunately i was able to stop my
order for a 28oz" from summit before it shipped.

the question is how can i tell what is the correct one to replace it
with?  is it possible that the wrong flywheel was fitted or would that
just shake the engine to bits over 2000rpm?
my only idea is to pull the oil pan and try to identify the crank
which may be hard if its an aftermarket crank.

From bobdixon at frii.com  Mon Jun  9 15:07:58 2008
From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:07:58 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
References: <39a841b0806091358o50fe5f28u26b56af830530d46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000601c8ca74$e565f2e0$e7fc7f0a@BobsDell>

I'm just guessing, but I'm wondering if the flywheel change was at the same 
time as the firing order change for small block Fords?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Owain Lloyd" <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
To: "Tiger's Den" <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise


>i do apologize for the recent flood of incompetent questions!  one day
> i promise to buy you all a beer....
>
> i just checked my old flywheel and it turns out to be the 50oz" type
> from '82.  my engine is a '72 mexico block 302.
>
> now either the PO had the wrong flywheel (i was suffering from
> vibrations!) or the engine has been rebuilt with a crank and balancer
> for the later 50oz" imbalance.  fortunately i was able to stop my
> order for a 28oz" from summit before it shipped.
>
> the question is how can i tell what is the correct one to replace it
> with?  is it possible that the wrong flywheel was fitted or would that
> just shake the engine to bits over 2000rpm?
> my only idea is to pull the oil pan and try to identify the crank
> which may be hard if its an aftermarket crank.

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Mon Jun  9 15:12:07 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:12:07 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <000601c8ca74$e565f2e0$e7fc7f0a@BobsDell>
References: <39a841b0806091358o50fe5f28u26b56af830530d46@mail.gmail.com>
	<000601c8ca74$e565f2e0$e7fc7f0a@BobsDell>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806091412n6bcfe1a6i78f6a396f8f46813@mail.gmail.com>

it may have been, but if the engine was built up from scratch they
could have used a cam with any firing order (i think there were 3
different stock ford configurations) and still used either style
crankshaft.

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Bob Dixon <bobdixon at frii.com> wrote:
> I'm just guessing, but I'm wondering if the flywheel change was at the same
> time as the firing order change for small block Fords?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owain Lloyd" <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> To: "Tiger's Den" <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 2:58 PM
> Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
>
>
>> i do apologize for the recent flood of incompetent questions!  one day
>> i promise to buy you all a beer....
>>
>> i just checked my old flywheel and it turns out to be the 50oz" type
>> from '82.  my engine is a '72 mexico block 302.
>>
>> now either the PO had the wrong flywheel (i was suffering from
>> vibrations!) or the engine has been rebuilt with a crank and balancer
>> for the later 50oz" imbalance.  fortunately i was able to stop my
>> order for a 28oz" from summit before it shipped.
>>
>> the question is how can i tell what is the correct one to replace it
>> with?  is it possible that the wrong flywheel was fitted or would that
>> just shake the engine to bits over 2000rpm?
>> my only idea is to pull the oil pan and try to identify the crank
>> which may be hard if its an aftermarket crank.

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Mon Jun  9 15:16:09 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:16:09 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F05A@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

The engine designation change from 302 cubic inches to 5.0 litres was
made at the same time (1979 model year) as the firing order and engine
balance changes. So when you're building or rebuilding an engine, you
have to make sure that you get all your rotating components for the same
era engine. You could hypothetically switch camshafts between the
different eras, so long as you change the ignition firing order to suit,
because that's not related to the engine balance.

Owain, I don't know that there is any way to identify the crank just
based on what's visible when you have the flywheel off, but it sounds
like it would be a good idea to pull the pan and visually inspect the
crank. If you're in there anyway, you could install a windage tray and
reduce your parasitic horsepower losses a little as well...

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Bob Dixon
Sent: June 9, 2008 3:08 PM
To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com; Tiger's Den
Subject: Re: [Tigers] flywheel surprise

I'm just guessing, but I'm wondering if the flywheel change was at the
same time as the firing order change for small block Fords?

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Mon Jun  9 16:34:45 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:34:45 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806091358o50fe5f28u26b56af830530d46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <39a841b0806091358o50fe5f28u26b56af830530d46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c8ca81$04757e60$74fcc04a@jerry>

Owain,

I just talked to my engine man and he says;

If you had a wrong weight flywheel the vibration would be tremendous, so it
doesn't sound like that's the problem.

He said to identify the proper crankshaft you have to drop the pan to see
the stampings on the crank i.e. 2MA or 2MAE these would be the 50 oz. the 28
oz. are numbers like 1M. Also the numbers stamped on the damper will be like
E0 which is a 50 oz. whereas 9D would be 28 oz.

I would think that if you look at the numbers of the damper, (he said they
are on the outside like the timing marks) and find that their of the 50oz
era you could probably be assured that it is in fact a 50oz rotating mass
and not have to remove the pan.

On another note a friend of mine has a $70K 65 retro Mustang w/347 eng. with
5 speed and we used a SPEC (SF483HTK) clutch and pressure that he likes very
well. I'm not that familiar with it other than installing it for him, but
just providing information of another option. They're located in Bessemer
Alabama outside of Birmingham. Several of the Mustang guys around here have
them and like them.

Also, if I'm not mistaken it's the camshaft that determines the firing order
not the crankshaft. I changed to a roller cam and had to change the timing
order.

Jerry Christopherson 


-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Owain Lloyd
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:59 PM
To: Tiger's Den
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise

i do apologize for the recent flood of incompetent questions!  one day
i promise to buy you all a beer....

i just checked my old flywheel and it turns out to be the 50oz" type
from '82.  my engine is a '72 mexico block 302.

now either the PO had the wrong flywheel (i was suffering from
vibrations!) or the engine has been rebuilt with a crank and balancer
for the later 50oz" imbalance.  fortunately i was able to stop my
order for a 28oz" from summit before it shipped.

the question is how can i tell what is the correct one to replace it
with?  is it possible that the wrong flywheel was fitted or would that
just shake the engine to bits over 2000rpm?
my only idea is to pull the oil pan and try to identify the crank
which may be hard if its an aftermarket crank.
You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Tue Jun 10 08:23:51 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:23:51 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806091358o50fe5f28u26b56af830530d46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8cb05$9c652b10$72931840@ronpc1>

Owain
	Jerry has given you the best information.

Here is some information I have but I can't confirm total accuracy.

5.0L counterweight change to 50 oz in 1985.

Early crankshafts are marked 1M on the front counterweight.

302 crankshafts are marked 2M.

Early harmonic balancers have a 3 bolt pattern for the pulley.

1970 to present the harmonic balancer has 4 bolt pattern.

The 5.0L harmonic balancer, 50 oz balance, has drill holes on the front face
uniformly around the circumference.

The earlier Harmonic balancer generally only has drill holes in a couple of
location around the circumference.

The 1 part number on the balancer I have a reference to shows E4TE-6316-A3A.

Obviously the crank, balancer and flywheel all need to be the correct
balance weight or a vibration will result.

Hope this helps

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Owain Lloyd
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 4:59 PM
To: Tiger's Den
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise


i do apologize for the recent flood of incompetent questions!  one day i
promise to buy you all a beer....

i just checked my old flywheel and it turns out to be the 50oz" type from
'82.  my engine is a '72 mexico block 302.

now either the PO had the wrong flywheel (i was suffering from
vibrations!) or the engine has been rebuilt with a crank and balancer for
the later 50oz" imbalance.  fortunately i was able to stop my order for a
28oz" from summit before it shipped.

the question is how can i tell what is the correct one to replace it with?
is it possible that the wrong flywheel was fitted or would that just shake
the engine to bits over 2000rpm? my only idea is to pull the oil pan and try
to identify the crank which may be hard if its an aftermarket crank.
You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com

Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1493 - Release Date: 6/9/2008
5:25 PM

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Tue Jun 10 08:31:08 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:31:08 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <000001c8cb05$9c652b10$72931840@ronpc1>
Message-ID: <000101c8cb06$a15a2160$72931840@ronpc1>

Owain

	I left out some information here:

The 1 part number on the balancer I have a reference to shows E4TE-6316-A3A.

This is a 5.0L,  50 oz balancer part number.

Ron Fraser

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Wed Jun 11 14:18:27 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:18:27 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Another "Get Smart" article
Message-ID: <002001c8cc00$4efaba60$0202a8c0@student2>

Over at the ALLPAR site there is a featured article on the "Maxwell Smart
Car."  It is more generic Rootes Group information than the specific Smart
Tiger, but still nice to see the adoptive parents honoring the child.
http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.php
 As the owner of a 70's Plymouth Valiant I frequent the site often. I did a
double take knowing I was at a Chrysler site..., but was seeing a Tiger.
Tom
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AM

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Wed Jun 11 17:33:41 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:33:41 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806111633x5ef170ady4362b8cfe13557e7@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know this car?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Tiger-1967-Sunbeam-Tiger-GET-SMART-Perfect-V-8-Must-See_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6472QQihZ003QQitemZ130230107084QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Very presentable apart from the goofy tim job, and i thought the plates in
this photo: http://carad.ebayimg.com/i20/01/a/08/6a/df/fe_4.JPG should be
aligned?

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From prbreuhan at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 11 18:01:04 2008
From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:01:04 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
In-Reply-To: <d86d088a0806111633x5ef170ady4362b8cfe13557e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d86d088a0806111633x5ef170ady4362b8cfe13557e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W4CFB2273246E55C15107CAAAD0@phx.gbl>

Michael,
It's a really nice car, aside from the goofy two-tone seats and a few other
personal tastes added. I like the redline tires and know those cost a bundle.

It was only sold a year or so before these guys got it.

The photograph of the spec plate is distorted by the lense and camera angle.

I was going to try and look at in the next couple of days (if I can arrange
something)...I am interested to see how he got that alternator in position
there, one of my next projects.

Paul
> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:33:41 +1000> From: michael.s.king at gmail.com> To:
tigers at autox.team.net> Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger> > Does anyone know this
car?> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Tiger-1967-Sunbeam-Tiger-GET-SMART
-Perfect-V-8-Must-See_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6472QQihZ003QQitemZ130230107
084QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW> > Very presentable apart from the goofy tim job,
and i thought the plates in> this photo:
http://carad.ebayimg.com/i20/01/a/08/6a/df/fe_4.JPG should be> aligned?> > --
> Regards> > Michael King
_________________________________________________________________
Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you
on Windows Live Messenger.
https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_InviteFriends

From tsmit at shaw.ca  Wed Jun 11 22:30:49 2008
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:30:49 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-W4CFB2273246E55C15107CAAAD0@phx.gbl>
References: <d86d088a0806111633x5ef170ady4362b8cfe13557e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY114-W4CFB2273246E55C15107CAAAD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4850A679.30705@shaw.ca>

A late Mk1A shouldn't have the 'spec plate' at all. I'm pretty sure 
those didn't  make it past the B947xxxx series, and the first bunch of 
B38200xxxx cars had only rivets there. The later cars had nothing below 
the VIN plate.

Theo

From bobbridgeford at msn.com  Wed Jun 11 23:58:02 2008
From: bobbridgeford at msn.com (Robert Bridgeford)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:58:02 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
In-Reply-To: <4850A679.30705@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <BLU108-F28BBBDC918F16253BA99D3AAAD0@phx.gbl>

The car may be OK, but I dont think I've ever seen a car dealer on Ebay with 
a rating as low as 85%.  With 192 total sales, that means 28 people felt 
something was wrong with their deal. Caveat Emptor!

Bob in Sisters OR



Bob Bridgeford
541 549 9539
Sisters OR 97759

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 12 00:19:38 2008
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tiger Man)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:19:38 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
References: <BLU108-F28BBBDC918F16253BA99D3AAAD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV73D568BD2426E029CF63AC1AD0@phx.gbl>

I kind of thought the same thing, but it looks like ebay has changed thier 
rating system.  Seems that only the last 12 months count now for your 
percentage, so the guy only had 2 bad feedbacks in the past year, but still 
seems like a shady dealer since he only sells cars

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Bridgeford" <bobbridgeford at msn.com>
To: <tsmit at shaw.ca>; <prbreuhan at hotmail.com>
Cc: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Ebay tiger


> The car may be OK, but I dont think I've ever seen a car dealer on Ebay 
> with
> a rating as low as 85%.  With 192 total sales, that means 28 people felt
> something was wrong with their deal. Caveat Emptor!
>
> Bob in Sisters OR
>
>
>
> Bob Bridgeford
> 541 549 9539
> Sisters OR 97759
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as tigerman67 at hotmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Thu Jun 12 00:48:07 2008
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:48:07 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
In-Reply-To: <BAY119-DAV73D568BD2426E029CF63AC1AD0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU108-F28BBBDC918F16253BA99D3AAAD0@phx.gbl>
	<BAY119-DAV73D568BD2426E029CF63AC1AD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A4F1C5F0ED4348EEA8ADB0423029F500@DellD4700>

All transactions didn't involve cars. Many earlier feedback comments
referred to jackets, shoes, dresses, boots, etc. 

A.C. Tynes
New Orleans

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tigers-bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-
> bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tiger Man
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 1:20 AM
> Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
> 
> I kind of thought the same thing, but it looks like ebay has changed thier
> rating system.  Seems that only the last 12 months count now for your
> percentage, so the guy only had 2 bad feedbacks in the past year, but
> still
> seems like a shady dealer since he only sells cars
> 
> Steve
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Bridgeford" <bobbridgeford at msn.com>
> To: <tsmit at shaw.ca>; <prbreuhan at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
> 
> 
> > The car may be OK, but I dont think I've ever seen a car dealer on Ebay
> > with
> > a rating as low as 85%.  With 192 total sales, that means 28 people felt
> > something was wrong with their deal. Caveat Emptor!
> >
> > Bob in Sisters OR
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob Bridgeford
> > 541 549 9539
> > Sisters OR 97759
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > You are subscribed as tigerman67 at hotmail.com
> >
> > Tigers at autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> >
> > http://www.team.net/archive
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as v8tracker at gmail.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From Carmods at aol.com  Thu Jun 12 08:16:15 2008
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:16:15 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
Message-ID: <ccf.32625a69.358289af@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/11/2008 7:34:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
michael.s.king at gmail.com writes:

Does  anyone know this car?



That car was bought by Jerry Helfman in Michigan from someone in  the south 
such as South Carolina about five years ago. He had the hood scoop,  roll bar 
padding etc. and T-5 transmission (not mentioned) added. He  decided he wanted 
a 1999 Ferrari so he sold it to the present owner named  George Huisman, owner 
of Classic Design Concepts in Novi Michigan. George bought  it for his wife 
who decided she wanted something with an automatic   transmission and A/C. 
 
As you can see it's very straight and It's a very good driver.
 
John Logan



**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

From drmoonstone at aol.com  Thu Jun 12 12:53:02 2008
From: drmoonstone at aol.com (drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:53:02 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <006201c8c7db$cb7496c0$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
	<006201c8c7db$cb7496c0$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
Message-ID: <8CA9AD4ACE0FB8B-80C-8F@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com>

Sorry for the late comment. With aluminum heads, polishing and painting really negates much of the performance valve of the material. For higher compression aluminum heads should not be painted or polished. 

Moonstone


-----Original Message-----
From: Alvin Johnson <twojohnsons at cox.net>
To: dhhall at bellsouth.net; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 6:47 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries



Hi Dave,
    Jeez---At least replace those tired old heads. There are some 
aftermarket iron ones around, or you can paint the aluminum ones. Aluminum 
heads give power & actually can run  w/out knocking on 87 octane. They'll 
run cooler, too---a bonus for a Tiger.
    I run a "baby crower" cam in my Mustang to retain the idle quality & 
give great torque. But to improve the HPower you need attend to the big 
3---Heads, Cam, and Intake (or a power adder).
    Why in the world would you want to spend all that $$$ and still have a 
car that can't even keep up with a Toyota?
Al J 
You are subscribed as drmoonstone at aol.com

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From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 12 12:59:06 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:59:06 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
Message-ID: <001d01c8ccbe$63d6c050$6501a8c0@your03667082de>

Does  anyone know this car?



That car was bought by Jerry Helfman in Michigan from someone in  the south
such as South Carolina about five years ago. He had the hood scoop,  roll bar
padding etc. and T-5 transmission (not mentioned) added. He  decided he wanted
a 1999 Ferrari so he sold it to the present owner named  George Huisman, owner
of Classic Design Concepts in Novi Michigan. George bought  it for his wife
who decided she wanted something with an automatic   transmission and A/C.

As you can see it's very straight and It's a very good driver.




I thought I recognized the car but couldn't quite place it.  Now that I look
at it, yes its Jerry's car.  He used to show up with all kinds of paraphanelia
like "Sunbeam Tiger" street signs, little stuffed kid leaning on the bumper,
checkered head light covers, etc.  I assume all that would go with the car's
new owner.     It would be interesting to see if he customizes his Ferrari
like he did the Tiger.

Kip Sheward deals primarily with high end cars and his building is a couple of
miles from where I live.  I don't know if he is a broker or keeps a inventory
of cars inside his building.



                                                                             
                                                                    Jeff

From jeff.eakin at comcast.net  Thu Jun 12 13:40:29 2008
From: jeff.eakin at comcast.net (Jeff Eakin)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:40:29 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Movie Idea
Message-ID: <C476D7CD.BDB%jeff.eakin@comcast.net>

Here's an idea maybe some other clubs could do for grins. The Colorado
Association of Tiger Owners (C.A.T.O.) is having a little mini Tiger (no
Alpines please)!!! car show/promotion in conjunction with one of the big
Denver theatres for opening night of the new Get Smart movie. The theatre is
roping off an area by the front door for 7 of our cars and giving us 2 free
tix per car plus all the popcorn we can eat for the opening night evening
show. The theatre manager thought it was a great idea and was immediately
receptive to the idea. We made up a 9 ft. long banner with a Tiger logo and
our club logo to hang nearby saying:

SUNBEAM TIGERS
The Car Maxwell Smart Drives in the Movie Get Smart
Provided by C.A.T.O.
Colorado Association of
Tiger Owners 

A press release was sent to the local TV stations just in case it's a slow
news night and they just happen to be reviewing the movie anyhow and need a
short news clip. So far 2 of the stations have called me back to ask
questions and express an interest in coming. It opens Friday, June 20th.
Jeff Eakin - Pres. C.A.T.O.

From todbrown at roadrunner.com  Thu Jun 12 14:21:46 2008
From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:21:46 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] eBay Tiger
Message-ID: <4851855A.4070103@roadrunner.com>

Theo is correct, as usual, about the spec plate.  MkIA's did not have the plates,
and that is a very late MkIA.  I also don't believe the rivets on the VIN plate are 
correct, if that matters.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE


Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:30:49 -0600
From: Theo Smit <tsmit at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
To: "Paul R. Breuhan" <prbreuhan at hotmail.com>
Cc: tigers_United_forum <tigers at autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <4850A679.30705 at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

A late Mk1A shouldn't have the 'spec plate' at all. I'm pretty sure 
those didn't  make it past the B947xxxx series, and the first bunch of 
B38200xxxx cars had only rivets there. The later cars had nothing below 
the VIN plate.

Theo

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Thu Jun 12 14:37:35 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:37:35 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] eBay Tiger
In-Reply-To: <4851855A.4070103@roadrunner.com>
References: <4851855A.4070103@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <4851890F.2020502@SoCal.rr.com>

It has been rumored that "someone" had a lot of metal spec plates 
reproduced, presumably for repair of original damaged ones.  The story 
goes that a large number of these plates were stolen, presumably for 
nefarious purposes.

In some states it is not legal to use reproduction plates, even if they 
are altered to contain the correct information. A state inspection of 
the vehicle, and its registration, required, and a NEW STATE NUMBER is 
issued for missing ID.

Removing and replacing a VIN plate is allowed by licensed body shops to 
repair damaged bodywork.  It is difficult to imagine an accident that 
would damage the body, but not the plate.  Maybe a paint change is 
adequate grounds. But "reproductions" are considered as forgeries.

At least that the way it is in CA.  My son's "RED TOI" was given an 
"Equipment Violation" because the VIN was not visible through the 
windshield.  On the base 1971 VW chassis there never was such an ID, it 
was stamped on the tranny tunnel. So the infraction was waved by a CHP 
required inspection.

Anyway, that's the way it is, anyway, in California.  The stickiest 
state for auto ID, transfers, and licensing due to the large number of 
vehicle thefts.  Although, lately, it's been Asian tin that is stolen.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Tod Brown wrote:
> Theo is correct, as usual, about the spec plate.  MkIA's did not have the plates,
> and that is a very late MkIA.  I also don't believe the rivets on the VIN plate are 
> correct, if that matters.
>
> Tod
> B382002384LRXFE

From sganz at pacbell.net  Thu Jun 12 15:21:16 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:21:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <148122.4982.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'll bet it makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things if
painted or polished, the cooling system takes the brunt of the BTU's out of
the motor not the radiation from the surface of the heads.
Sandy

-----
Original Message ----
From: "drmoonstone at aol.com" <drmoonstone at aol.com>
To:
twojohnsons at cox.net; dhhall at bellsouth.net; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent:
Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:53:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Sorry for the late comment. With aluminum heads, polishing and painting really
negates much of the performance valve of the material. For higher compression
aluminum heads should not be painted or polished. 

Moonstone


-----Original
Message-----
From: Alvin Johnson <twojohnsons at cox.net>
To:
dhhall at bellsouth.net; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 6:47 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries



Hi Dave,
    Jeez---At least
replace those tired old heads. There are some 
aftermarket iron ones around,
or you can paint the aluminum ones. Aluminum 
heads give power & actually can
run  w/out knocking on 87 octane. They'll 
run cooler, too---a bonus for a
Tiger.
    I run a "baby crower" cam in my Mustang to retain the idle quality
& 
give great torque. But to improve the HPower you need attend to the big
3---Heads, Cam, and Intake (or a power adder).
    Why in the world would you
want to spend all that $$$ and still have a 
car that can't even keep up with
a Toyota?
Al J 
You are subscribed as drmoonstone at aol.com
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
http://www.team.net/archive
You are subscribed as
sganz at pacbell.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From bobbridgeford at msn.com  Thu Jun 12 16:51:17 2008
From: bobbridgeford at msn.com (Robert Bridgeford)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:51:17 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] eBay Tiger
In-Reply-To: <4851855A.4070103@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F37BEA00C05339326BCE47AAAAD0@phx.gbl>

My Mark 1A B382002219 ( TAC'D)  has a spec plate, wih correct rivets.   But 
there is one complete strip and paint in the cars history, so  changes may 
have been made....


Bob Bridgeford
541 549 9539
Sisters OR 97759




FA late Mk1A shouldn't have the 'spec plate' at all. I'm pretty sure
those didn't  make it past the B947xxxx series, and the first bunch of
B38200xxxx cars had only rivets there. The later cars had nothing below
the VIN plate.

Theo
You are subscribed as bobbridgeford at msn.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From shutchin at netjets.com  Thu Jun 12 17:19:27 2008
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:19:27 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] eBay Tiger
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE788@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

382000829

No spec plate, but holes with brit rivets in them. 



Scott Hutchinson
Director of Operations
Netjets Large Aircraft

Office 860.292.1191
Mobile 843.290.2805

* ********
This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error,  please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message.

From rootes1 at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 12 17:34:52 2008
From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:34:52 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] eBay Tiger
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-F37BEA00C05339326BCE47AAAAD0@phx.gbl>
References: <4851855A.4070103@roadrunner.com>
	<BAY103-F37BEA00C05339326BCE47AAAAD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E1K6wJj-0004g8-7f@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Here's a shot of Bob's cowl from the '06 ebay listing.  Sure doesn't 
look like correct 1A rivets to me.
http://www.geocities.com/bobs_diehl/e9_1.jpg

bob_diehl


At 03:51 PM 6/12/2008, Robert Bridgeford wrote:
>My Mark 1A B382002219 ( TAC'D)  has a spec plate, wih correct rivets.   But
>there is one complete strip and paint in the cars history, so  changes may
>have been made....
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1499 - Release Date: 6/12/2008 7:13
AM

From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Thu Jun 12 17:41:04 2008
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:41:04 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger
Message-ID: <ca8.27c67183.35830e10@aol.com>

Theo right.  Acoording to the BON and other sources
The last MK I with spec plate was  B9473312 but the
rivets remained on the cowl.  The rivets and holes
ended with the MK IA B382001200.  Of course these
number are + or -.
 
Dave.  Glad I'm living on the 3rd floor.
 
 
In a message dated 6/11/2008 11:28:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
tsmit at shaw.ca writes:

A late  Mk1A shouldn't have the 'spec plate' at all. I'm pretty sure 
those  didn't  make it past the B947xxxx series, and the first bunch of  
B38200xxxx cars had only rivets there. The later cars had nothing below  
the VIN  plate.

Theo
You are subscribed as  djoh797014 at aol.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive





**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

From todbrown at roadrunner.com  Thu Jun 12 19:18:10 2008
From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:18:10 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger Spec Plate
Message-ID: <4851CAD2.4030107@roadrunner.com>

SS lists the spec plate in their catalog, and has for some time.  I know 
that some folks, whose
car did not have one originally, have added it.  My Tiger, 
B382002384LRXFE, of which I am the
original owner, never had one.  When I had my car resprayed, I insisted 
that they mask the VIN
plate rather than remove it to save the original rivets.  Having a car 
TAC'ed does not mean that
the VIN plate is intact, since there are other clues to establish 
authenticity, but having a virgin
VIN plate is still useful.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Thu Jun 12 19:28:17 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:28:17 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Tiger Spec Plate
In-Reply-To: <4851CAD2.4030107@roadrunner.com>
References: <4851CAD2.4030107@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <4851CD31.1000504@SoCal.rr.com>

Tod,

I probably had a typo in my previous memo.  "Spec Plates" was meant to 
be "VIN" plates, as the rest refers to. Sorry.

Steve

<-------------------------- reference ------------------->
"It has been rumored that "someone" had a lot of metal *_spec_* plates
reproduced, presumably for repair of original damaged ones. The story
goes that a large number of these plates were stolen, presumably for
nefarious purposes.

In some states it is not legal to use reproduction plates, even if they
are altered to contain the correct information. A state inspection of
the vehicle, and its registration, required, and a NEW STATE NUMBER is
issued for missing ID.

Removing and replacing a VIN plate is allowed by licensed body shops to
repair damaged bodywork. It is difficult to imagine an accident that
would damage the body, but not the plate. Maybe a paint change is
adequate grounds. But "reproductions" are considered as forgeries."
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com


Tod Brown wrote:
> SS lists the spec plate in their catalog, and has for some time.  I know 
> that some folks, whose
> car did not have one originally, have added it.  My Tiger, 
> B382002384LRXFE, of which I am the
> original owner, never had one.  When I had my car resprayed, I insisted 
> that they mask the VIN
> plate rather than remove it to save the original rivets.  Having a car 
> TAC'ed does not mean that
> the VIN plate is intact, since there are other clues to establish 
> authenticity, but having a virgin
> VIN plate is still useful.
>
> Tod
> B382002384LRXFE

From twojohnsons at cox.net  Fri Jun 13 06:52:44 2008
From: twojohnsons at cox.net (Alvin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:52:44 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
	<006201c8c7db$cb7496c0$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
	<8CA9AD4ACE0FB8B-80C-8F@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <004101c8cd54$5fb7d810$084cdd48@13930193605348f>

Hi Doc,
Even given "paint-negation," it's a safe bet that painted heads will yield
more HP than any Ford small block iron stocker ever will, no matter how
ported, relieved or polished..
First I've heard of it---how can external paint affect internal operation?
Would the same hold true for an aluminum block?    Painted aluminum heads have
been a favorite street racer trick for many years.
Al J

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Jun 13 07:11:04 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:11:04 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <000001c8cb05$9c652b10$72931840@ronpc1>
References: <39a841b0806091358o50fe5f28u26b56af830530d46@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c8cb05$9c652b10$72931840@ronpc1>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806130611p2851fa94s865232c7254a2913@mail.gmail.com>

holy cow!
i just checked my crank and its marked "2M" on the front counter
weight which i understand is a 28oz crank.  its had a 50oz flywheel on
there since i bought the car 5000 miles ago!

i'd better order a 28oz flywheel and balancer.

on the up side, there is already a windage tray installed :)



On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Ron Fraser <rfraser at bluefrog.com> wrote:
> Owain
>        Jerry has given you the best information.
>
> Here is some information I have but I can't confirm total accuracy.
>
> 5.0L counterweight change to 50 oz in 1985.
>
> Early crankshafts are marked 1M on the front counterweight.
>
> 302 crankshafts are marked 2M.
>
> Early harmonic balancers have a 3 bolt pattern for the pulley.
>
> 1970 to present the harmonic balancer has 4 bolt pattern.
>
> The 5.0L harmonic balancer, 50 oz balance, has drill holes on the front face
> uniformly around the circumference.
>
> The earlier Harmonic balancer generally only has drill holes in a couple of
> location around the circumference.
>
> The 1 part number on the balancer I have a reference to shows E4TE-6316-A3A.
>
> Obviously the crank, balancer and flywheel all need to be the correct
> balance weight or a vibration will result.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Ron Fraser
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> Owain Lloyd
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 4:59 PM
> To: Tiger's Den
> Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
>
>
> i do apologize for the recent flood of incompetent questions!  one day i
> promise to buy you all a beer....
>
> i just checked my old flywheel and it turns out to be the 50oz" type from
> '82.  my engine is a '72 mexico block 302.
>
> now either the PO had the wrong flywheel (i was suffering from
> vibrations!) or the engine has been rebuilt with a crank and balancer for
> the later 50oz" imbalance.  fortunately i was able to stop my order for a
> 28oz" from summit before it shipped.
>
> the question is how can i tell what is the correct one to replace it with?
> is it possible that the wrong flywheel was fitted or would that just shake
> the engine to bits over 2000rpm? my only idea is to pull the oil pan and try
> to identify the crank which may be hard if its an aftermarket crank.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1493 - Release Date: 6/9/2008
> 5:25 PM

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Fri Jun 13 07:24:59 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:24:59 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay tiger/ spec plate
In-Reply-To: <ca8.27c67183.35830e10@aol.com>
References: <ca8.27c67183.35830e10@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733029BE071@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

This would be consistent with my car, '1452 no spec plate and no reason to
believe it was ever there.

Cullen
B382001452 LROFE






Theo right.  Acoording to the BON and other sources
The last MK I with spec plate was  B9473312 but the
rivets remained on the cowl.  The rivets and holes
ended with the MK IA B382001200.  Of course these
number are + or -.

From Carmods at aol.com  Fri Jun 13 07:49:09 2008
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:49:09 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <c2c.381e407a.3583d4d5@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/12/2008 5:22:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
sganz at pacbell.net writes:

the  cooling system takes the brunt of the BTU's out of
the motor not the  radiation from the surface of the heads.



Right on Sandy!
 
John Logan



**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

From maliburevue at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 13 08:08:27 2008
From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:08:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806130611p2851fa94s865232c7254a2913@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <819613.74471.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Owain,
&nbsp;
Has the 28 0z. crank been rebalanced to 50 oz.? Does anyone on the Tiger list know if that is possible and if yes, what to look for, or if it was it done incorrectly? You may want to call an engine machine shop to confirm.
&nbsp;
Gary&nbsp;
&nbsp;

--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Owain Lloyd &lt;owain.lloyd at gmail.com&gt; wrote:

From: Owain Lloyd &lt;owain.lloyd at gmail.com&gt;
Subject: Re: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
To: rfraser at bluefrog.com
Cc: "Tiger's Den" &lt;tigers at autox.team.net&gt;
Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 6:11 AM

holy cow!
i just checked my crank and its marked "2M" on the front counter
weight which i understand is a 28oz crank.  its had a 50oz flywheel on
there since i bought the car 5000 miles ago!

i'd better order a 28oz flywheel and balancer.

on the up side, there is already a windage tray installed.

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Jun 13 08:19:47 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:19:47 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <819613.74471.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <39a841b0806130611p2851fa94s865232c7254a2913@mail.gmail.com>
	<819613.74471.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806130719o370be7f1g9185172ca9eda73f@mail.gmail.com>

my supplier over here says its not possible to do that but there are
some holes drilled in the crank weights and the vibrations were not
terrible so i strongly suspect someone has tried that.

i guess i'll know by the vibrations after i start it up again.

if this is the case i'll have to get a new crank and rebalance the
assembly.    that'll be fun - trying to find somewhere in the uk to do
that and pay less than $1500 :(

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Gary Crandall <maliburevue at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Owain,
>
>
>
> Has the 28 0z. crank been rebalanced to 50 oz.? Does anyone on the Tiger
> list know if that is possible and if yes, what to look for, or if it was it
> done incorrectly? You may want to call an engine machine shop to confirm.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 6/13/08, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
> To: rfraser at bluefrog.com
> Cc: "Tiger's Den" <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 6:11 AM
>
> holy cow!
> i just checked my crank and its marked "2M" on the front counter
> weight which i understand is a 28oz crank.  its had a 50oz flywheel on
> there since i bought the car 5000 miles ago!
>
> i'd better order a 28oz flywheel and balancer.
>
> on the up side, there is already a windage tray installed.

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Jun 13 09:11:12 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:11:12 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806130719o370be7f1g9185172ca9eda73f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <39a841b0806130611p2851fa94s865232c7254a2913@mail.gmail.com>
	<819613.74471.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<39a841b0806130719o370be7f1g9185172ca9eda73f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806130811o77104805jf4df828ea67fc275@mail.gmail.com>

i think it makes sense to make sure its properly balanced while the
engine is out.

i'll send the crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, clutch and balancer to a
place over here that will balance the assembly for a few hundred
bucks.

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> my supplier over here says its not possible to do that but there are
> some holes drilled in the crank weights and the vibrations were not
> terrible so i strongly suspect someone has tried that.
>
> i guess i'll know by the vibrations after i start it up again.
>
> if this is the case i'll have to get a new crank and rebalance the
> assembly.    that'll be fun - trying to find somewhere in the uk to do
> that and pay less than $1500 :(
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Gary Crandall <maliburevue at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Owain,
>>
>>
>>
>> Has the 28 0z. crank been rebalanced to 50 oz.? Does anyone on the Tiger
>> list know if that is possible and if yes, what to look for, or if it was it
>> done incorrectly? You may want to call an engine machine shop to confirm.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 6/13/08, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
>> To: rfraser at bluefrog.com
>> Cc: "Tiger's Den" <tigers at autox.team.net>
>> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 6:11 AM
>>
>> holy cow!
>> i just checked my crank and its marked "2M" on the front counter
>> weight which i understand is a 28oz crank.  its had a 50oz flywheel on
>> there since i bought the car 5000 miles ago!
>>
>> i'd better order a 28oz flywheel and balancer.
>>
>> on the up side, there is already a windage tray installed.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Jun 13 10:05:03 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:05:03 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <c2c.381e407a.3583d4d5@aol.com>
References: <c2c.381e407a.3583d4d5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48529AAF.4090607@mayfco.com>

John, Sandy, and others, I have been glancing at this thread and
something is missing here... data and analysis.  There are three
components to the cooling of the engine: conduction of the heat via the
vater, convection of the heat from the surfaces and indeed, radiation.
I did an analysis on the engine in my land speed race car which included
all three elements. I made the analysis because I wanted to put the
radiator in a water tank in the passenger side of the cockpit, and I
need to size the tank dimensions. I found a lot of interesting things
from doing that analysis: convection plays a major role in cooling and
that comes from the surfaces of the head, intake manifold and sides of
the block, those areas where air can circulate aound the engine.
Radiation also played a part but to a lesser amount. Conduction via the
water was still a big player, but not to the exclusion of the others.
All three are needed.  Of course, when the horsepower is increased
beyond that which the radiator can recover then the motor will run hot.
The radiator, via the thermostat is the controller of the heat in the
engine.  Take for example an engine run in very cold climates... they
will hardly warm up because of the heat being carried away via
convection and radiation.  Needless to say, the system needs to be well
designed to do the job at hand.

Interesting stuff...

good thread and I hope it goes farther. I'd like to see some data rather
than anecdotal stipulations.

mayf



Carmods at aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 6/12/2008 5:22:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
>sganz at pacbell.net writes:
>
>the  cooling system takes the brunt of the BTU's out of
>the motor not the  radiation from the surface of the heads.
>
>
>
>Right on Sandy!
> 
>John Logan

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Jun 13 10:08:21 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:08:21 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806130719o370be7f1g9185172ca9eda73f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002101c8cd6f$b50f6c90$43921840@ronpc1>

Owain
	It is normal for a crank to have drill marks; that is how Ford does
there balancing, drilling out material and sometimes drilling and adding
heavy metal for production balance procedures.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Owain Lloyd
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 10:20 AM
To: maliburevue at yahoo.com
Cc: Tiger's Den
Subject: Re: [Tigers] flywheel surprise


my supplier over here says its not possible to do that but there are some
holes drilled in the crank weights and the vibrations were not terrible so i
strongly suspect someone has tried that.

i guess i'll know by the vibrations after i start it up again.

if this is the case i'll have to get a new crank and rebalance the
assembly.    that'll be fun - trying to find somewhere in the uk to do
that and pay less than $1500 :(

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Gary Crandall <maliburevue at yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Owain,
>
>
>
> Has the 28 0z. crank been rebalanced to 50 oz.? Does anyone on the
> Tiger list know if that is possible and if yes, what to look for, or
> if it was it done incorrectly? You may want to call an engine machine
> shop to confirm.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 6/13/08, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
> To: rfraser at bluefrog.com
> Cc: "Tiger's Den" <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 6:11 AM
>
> holy cow!
> i just checked my crank and its marked "2M" on the front counter
> weight which i understand is a 28oz crank.  its had a 50oz flywheel on
> there since i bought the car 5000 miles ago!
>
> i'd better order a 28oz flywheel and balancer.
>
> on the up side, there is already a windage tray installed.
You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com

Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
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From sganz at pacbell.net  Fri Jun 13 11:01:46 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:01:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford
Message-ID: <478423.29377.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Fyi if anyone is interested, Dan Gurney will be at Galpin Ford 6-8pm in the
San Fernando Valley (Calif) doing autographs and someone also mentioned a car
unveiling but not sure about that.  
 
http://galpinautosports.com/news.php#dg

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun 13 11:10:21 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:10:21 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
In-Reply-To: <004101c8cd54$5fb7d810$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
	<006201c8c7db$cb7496c0$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
	<8CA9AD4ACE0FB8B-80C-8F@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com>
	<004101c8cd54$5fb7d810$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
Message-ID: <4852A9FD.6040602@SoCal.rr.com>

Al,

Talked to Dr. Moonstone yesterday.  His contention is that the rate of 
heat radiated from a hot aluminum source bears a strong relationship to 
the thermal emissivity and a rough surface has more surface area than a 
polished one. In addition, paint provides a barrier to radiated thermal 
emission rates.

He is, of course, in the coating industry, and bears some attention to 
what he says.

I, also, agree with him.  If one does not have a temperature issue, then 
it doesn't matter.  But Tigers need attention to this area, especially 
when modified.  More H.P., more heat to be rejected.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Alvin Johnson wrote:
> Hi Doc,
> Even given "paint-negation," it's a safe bet that painted heads will yield
> more HP than any Ford small block iron stocker ever will, no matter how
> ported, relieved or polished..
> First I've heard of it---how can external paint affect internal operation?
> Would the same hold true for an aluminum block?    Painted aluminum heads have
> been a favorite street racer trick for many years.
> Al J

From shutchin at netjets.com  Fri Jun 13 11:15:37 2008
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:15:37 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
In-Reply-To: <4852A9FD.6040602@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net><006201c8c7db$cb7496c0$084cdd48@13930193605348f><8CA9AD4ACE0FB8B-80C-8F@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com><004101c8cd54$5fb7d810$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
	<4852A9FD.6040602@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE795@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

I had thought that the primary advantage of aluminum head was the
resistance to detonation.  My understanding was that this was primarily
do to the quicker and more even cooling of aluminum vs cast Iron.  I had
thought that cast iron would develop "hot spots" when used in high
compression applications and these would cause pre-ignition.

Not sure if I am correct on that or not.

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From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun 13 11:19:00 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:19:00 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <48529AAF.4090607@mayfco.com>
References: <c2c.381e407a.3583d4d5@aol.com>
  <48529AAF.4090607@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <4852AC04.20904@SoCal.rr.com>

Right on, Mayf,

I am reminded of the Jaguar XK 120M at a Palm Springs race day Concour.  
It had the top brass tank stripped, and polished.  Maybe a clear coat as 
well.  Looked great, but the Jag cooling system is marginal at best, and 
it would overheat rapidly.  The original black coloring was for heat 
radiative emission, and that was destroyed.

"It's the heat, not the humidity" :-)

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



drmayf wrote:
> <----- snip ------>
> All three are needed.  Of course, when the horsepower is increased
> beyond that which the radiator can recover then the motor will run hot.
> The radiator, via the thermostat is the controller of the heat in the
> engine.  Take for example an engine run in very cold climates... they
> will hardly warm up because of the heat being carried away via
> convection and radiation.  Needless to say, the system needs to be well
> designed to do the job at hand.
>
> mayf

From TIGEROOTES at aol.com  Fri Jun 13 11:23:33 2008
From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:23:33 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Another Get Smart article (no mention of the car)
Message-ID: <d30.31d961ae.35840715@aol.com>

Click here: We've gotten smart: Movie's spy gadgets do exist 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1700ap_film_get_smart_gadgets.html



**************
Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 
2008.
      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun 13 11:26:43 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:26:43 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford
In-Reply-To: <478423.29377.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <478423.29377.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4852ADD3.4040202@SoCal.rr.com>

Sandy,

Dan is backing the release of his name branded Mustang, like many other 
specials editions.  Believe it will be shown.

I bought and use this dealership for my 2005 Ford Thunderbird 50th 
Anniversary Model (read re-skinned Jaguar XK), and the Galpin agency is 
very competent.

I would go, but have more than one grandkid's graduation to attend.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Sandy Ganz wrote:
> Fyi if anyone is interested, Dan Gurney will be at Galpin Ford 6-8pm in the
> San Fernando Valley (Calif) doing autographs and someone also mentioned a car
> unveiling but not sure about that.  

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Jun 13 11:29:31 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:29:31 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <4852AC04.20904@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <c2c.381e407a.3583d4d5@aol.com>
	<48529AAF.4090607@mayfco.com> <4852AC04.20904@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4852AE7B.8040909@mayfco.com>

Yep, look at all the radiators... aren't they mostly black? And a thin 
coat of paint would seem to offer very little int he way of heat 
transfer resistance. Sean, you out there? How about doing a quick and 
dirty analysis of  a painted aluminum surface vs an unpainted one?  I'll 
look to see if I can find the applicable properties of paint for thermal 
emissivity (sp?).  Black bodies do radiate better than polished ones. 
Rough is better than polished because of the increased surface area as 
was mentioned.

mayf
Steve Laifman wrote:

> Right on, Mayf,
>
> I am reminded of the Jaguar XK 120M at a Palm Springs race day 
> Concour.  It had the top brass tank stripped, and polished.  Maybe a 
> clear coat as well.  Looked great, but the Jag cooling system is 
> marginal at best, and it would overheat rapidly.  The original black 
> coloring was for heat radiative emission, and that was destroyed.
>
> "It's the heat, not the humidity" :-)
>
> Steve
>
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
>
>
>
> drmayf wrote:
>
>> <----- snip ------>
>> All three are needed.  Of course, when the horsepower is increased
>> beyond that which the radiator can recover then the motor will run hot.
>> The radiator, via the thermostat is the controller of the heat in the
>> engine.  Take for example an engine run in very cold climates... they
>> will hardly warm up because of the heat being carried away via
>> convection and radiation.  Needless to say, the system needs to be well
>> designed to do the job at hand.
>>
>> mayf

From mark.rense at ge.com  Fri Jun 13 11:34:47 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:34:47 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <4852AC04.20904@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <c2c.381e407a.3583d4d5@aol.com> 
	<48529AAF.4090607@mayfco.com> <4852AC04.20904@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04C71021@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Painting aluminum with a black flat paint will change the emissivity and
help with convective heat transfer. High performance air-cooled engines
in aircraft and motorcycles have used this technique for many years to
achieve faster cooling rates. I've used this concept in designs for the
Navy in submarine weapons systems and at GE for numerous products. It's
also why my Norton and BSA jugs are painted black.

However, since radiation and convection account for only a minor part of
the heat dissipation system in a water-cooled engine, I would suspect
that painting the heads would have a barely measurable effect.

Bugz


drmayf wrote:
> <----- snip ------>
> All three are needed.  Of course, when the horsepower is increased
> beyond that which the radiator can recover then the motor will run
hot.
> The radiator, via the thermostat is the controller of the heat in the
> engine.  Take for example an engine run in very cold climates... they
> will hardly warm up because of the heat being carried away via
> convection and radiation.  Needless to say, the system needs to be
> well designed to do the job at hand.
>
> mayf
You are subscribed as mark.rense at ge.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Jun 13 11:58:36 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:36 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <4852AC04.20904@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <c2c.381e407a.3583d4d5@aol.com>
	<48529AAF.4090607@mayfco.com> <4852AC04.20904@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4852B54C.3010007@mayfco.com>

As an after thought... why do we call automotive radiators radiators? 
Maybe we should be calling them "convectors", eh? 

mayf
Steve Laifman wrote:

> Right on, Mayf,
>
> I am reminded of the Jaguar XK 120M at a Palm Springs race day 
> Concour.  It had the top brass tank stripped, and polished.  Maybe a 
> clear coat as well.  Looked great, but the Jag cooling system is 
> marginal at best, and it would overheat rapidly.  The original black 
> coloring was for heat radiative emission, and that was destroyed.
>
> "It's the heat, not the humidity" :-)
>
> Steve
>
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
>
>
>
> drmayf wrote:
>
>> <----- snip ------>
>> All three are needed.  Of course, when the horsepower is increased
>> beyond that which the radiator can recover then the motor will run hot.
>> The radiator, via the thermostat is the controller of the heat in the
>> engine.  Take for example an engine run in very cold climates... they
>> will hardly warm up because of the heat being carried away via
>> convection and radiation.  Needless to say, the system needs to be well
>> designed to do the job at hand.
>>
>> mayf

From sganz at pacbell.net  Fri Jun 13 12:19:29 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:19:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <284980.88540.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

That is exactly the discussion I'm looking for! I did poke around on the web
and found a car craft article debunking the HP loss/gain in aluminum vs iron
head in some ways, with dyno data and while interesting not totally
conclusive, but seems to cover a good amount of the common cases run into in
warmed over motors. The summary was they picked up 2 sets of heads from Dart
Machine who makes an almost identical aluminum and iron head for the SBC. They
flowed before testing and the iron head and aluminum were very close in all
numbers. The numbers on the dyno were almost not measurably different, they
also messed with timing and no difference where motors with either head
type would detonate. Some other stuff too. I think the compression for the
test was in the mid 10's so while I might not consider it high, others might.
Long and short was HP was no different according to dyno data. It did not
address any cooling system issues which would be more what
this thread was
about.
 
I raised the question with the expectation of a response like this,
which is much more informative and thus valuable. My thinking is that I would
also rather have control on the cooling system then rely on paint, polish, as
cast if I'm on the edge, but that I think is a different discussion. 
 
I had
an orange painted Big Block and the fellow that was helping me build back in
the 80's it got pissed of that it was orange and said the best color for an
engine is all black for heat removal, and ruined my nice chevy orange paint.
It did do one thing nice was hide the oil leaks...
I have a polished aluminum
big block chevy block in the Cobra (not of my doing, don't like the glitter)
but still made over 700hp with a 468" motor, so my initial fear that chrome
and polished stuff doesn't make HP was debunked ;-)
 
And in the context of
most of us here with Tigers, likely will not make any difference I would apply
paint, polish, and still be happy that we all have something to chatter about,
and I'll agree all good stuff.
 
Sandy

(was too long for the list so I cut it
up a bit)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Jun 13 12:37:16 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:37:16 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Fastener Kits
Message-ID: <4852BE5C.5040709@mayfco.com>

Folks, I just received my order of stainless steel fasteners from MMS & 
Accessories. I am really happy with the product! I called and talked to 
Nancy Martin and she helped me determine what fasteners I needed. If you 
need any fastener anywhere on the car, give them a call. They can break 
out just about anything you need without having to get extras you don't 
need. And the price was really reasonable especially when compared to 
other suppliers.  I am a happy camper...

Their web site is         http://www.mmsacc-stainless.com    
phone is 1-800-441-9451

mayf

From achd73 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 13 12:54:07 2008
From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:54:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806130719o370be7f1g9185172ca9eda73f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <262317.40495.qm@web30301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Owain- There is a Tiger restoration person in the UK. I would HOPE he would help you find the best places to have work done and at the cheapest rates- Im sure they see a Yank coming and take advantage of it if they can. Not eveyryone BUT many- joing the UK Tiger club as well- the members should be willing to help as well when it comes to where to spend you money. regards, TonytheTiger


--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
> To: maliburevue at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Tiger's Den" <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 9:19 AM
> my supplier over here says its not possible to do that but
> there are
> some holes drilled in the crank weights and the vibrations
> were not
> terrible so i strongly suspect someone has tried that.
> 
> i guess i'll know by the vibrations after i start it up
> again.
> 
> if this is the case i'll have to get a new crank and
> rebalance the
> assembly.    that'll be fun - trying to find somewhere
> in the uk to do
> that and pay less than $1500 :(
> 
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Gary Crandall
> <maliburevue at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Owain,
> >
> >
> >
> > Has the 28 0z. crank been rebalanced to 50 oz.? Does
> anyone on the Tiger
> > list know if that is possible and if yes, what to look
> for, or if it was it
> > done incorrectly? You may want to call an engine
> machine shop to confirm.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 6/13/08, Owain Lloyd
> <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] flywheel surprise
> > To: rfraser at bluefrog.com
> > Cc: "Tiger's Den"
> <tigers at autox.team.net>
> > Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 6:11 AM
> >
> > holy cow!
> > i just checked my crank and its marked "2M"
> on the front counter
> > weight which i understand is a 28oz crank.  its had a
> 50oz flywheel on
> > there since i bought the car 5000 miles ago!
> >
> > i'd better order a 28oz flywheel and balancer.
> >
> > on the up side, there is already a windage tray
> installed.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 13 15:05:09 2008
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford / T-Bird platform
In-Reply-To: <4852ADD3.4040202@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <292835.72456.qm@web31703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Steve,
I beleive the latest T-bird was based on the Lincoln LS/Jag S-type platform, not the XK/DB7 platform.

I think Galpin carries the Panoz cars as well. Pretty cool dealership.

--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com> wrote:

> From: Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford
> To: "Sandy Ganz" <sganz at pacbell.net>
> Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 1:26 PM
> Sandy,
> 
> Dan is backing the release of his name branded Mustang,
> like many other 
> specials editions.  Believe it will be shown.
> 
> I bought and use this dealership for my 2005 Ford
> Thunderbird 50th 
> Anniversary Model (read re-skinned Jaguar XK), and the
> Galpin agency is 
> very competent.

From sganz at pacbell.net  Fri Jun 13 16:47:37 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:47:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford / T-Bird platform
Message-ID: <231132.72011.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, they have the Panoz cars 'still' in the showroom. Same 2 have been in for
as long as I can remember. I'm not so hot on the style but whenever I check
them out here come the sales guys with $$$ in their eyes!  I don't know if Mr.
Gurney will be at the Luxury car side, Galpin Ford Proper or GAS. I hope it is
in the Museum/GAS where they PIMP your rid
And the T-Birds of late definitly
don't share the XK/DB7 platform unless it is something other then the TBirds
as I think about it. I like the TBirds, in a odd way they remind me of the
Tiger from some of the old style they kept. In the back of the Aston/Jag
service area one of the managers has a 289 Cobra, and I think some other nice
Fords (might be a Boss 302, can't remember).
Heading out shortly to Galpin...
Sandy
----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen Waybright
<gswaybright at yahoo.com>
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008
2:05:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford / T-Bird platform
Steve,
I beleive the latest T-bird was based on the Lincoln LS/Jag S-type
platform, not the XK/DB7 platform.

I think Galpin carries the Panoz cars as
well. Pretty cool dealership.

--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Steve Laifman
<SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com> wrote:

> From: Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford
> To: "Sandy Ganz"
<sganz at pacbell.net>
> Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008,
1:26 PM
> Sandy,
> 
> Dan is backing the release of his name branded Mustang,
> like many other 
> specials editions.  Believe it will be shown.
> 
> I
bought and use this dealership for my 2005 Ford
> Thunderbird 50th 
>
Anniversary Model (read re-skinned Jaguar XK), and the
> Galpin agency is 
>
very competent.
_______________________________________________
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From ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 13 17:18:38 2008
From: ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net (Ross)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:18:38 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford / T-Bird platform
In-Reply-To: <292835.72456.qm@web31703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001801c8cdab$cfffd210$6700a8c0@ROSS>

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+ross_hulse=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+ross_hulse=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Stephen Waybright
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:05 PM
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford / T-Bird platform

Steve,
I beleive the latest T-bird was based on the Lincoln LS/Jag S-type platform,
not the XK/DB7 platform.

I think Galpin carries the Panoz cars as well. Pretty cool dealership.

--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com> wrote:

> From: Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Dan Gurney At Galpin Ford
> To: "Sandy Ganz" <sganz at pacbell.net>
> Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 1:26 PM
> Sandy,
> 
> Dan is backing the release of his name branded Mustang,
> like many other 
> specials editions.  Believe it will be shown.
> 
> I bought and use this dealership for my 2005 Ford
> Thunderbird 50th 
> Anniversary Model (read re-skinned Jaguar XK), and the
> Galpin agency is 
> very competent.
You are subscribed as ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 13 19:20:35 2008
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <284980.88540.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56221.94941.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If Car Craft ran the same compression in both engines, there should be no HP difference between the iron and alum heads... but the thing is, if all else is identicle, you can run higher compression with alum heads before the engine starts pinging because they dissipate heat faster. That's where the extra HP comes from running Alum heads.

--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net> wrote:

> From: Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
> To: "tigers at autox.team.net" <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 2:19 PM
> That is exactly the discussion I'm looking for! I did
> poke around on the web
> and found a car craft article debunking the HP loss/gain in
> aluminum vs iron
> head in some ways, with dyno data and while interesting not
> totally
> conclusive, but seems to cover a good amount of the common
> cases run into in
> warmed over motors. The summary was they picked up 2 sets
> of heads from Dart
> Machine who makes an almost identical aluminum and iron
> head for the SBC. They
> flowed before testing and the iron head and aluminum were
> very close in all
> numbers. The numbers on the dyno were almost not measurably
> different, they
> also messed with timing and no difference where motors with
> either head
> type would detonate. Some other stuff too. I think the
> compression for the
> test was in the mid 10's so while I might not consider
> it high, others might.
> Long and short was HP was no different according to dyno
> data. It did not
> address any cooling system issues which would be more what
> this thread was
> about.

From rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com  Fri Jun 13 19:51:21 2008
From: rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com (Robert Palmer)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:51:21 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <56221.94941.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <284980.88540.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<56221.94941.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c8cdc1$257313a0$70593ae0$@com>

I'll weigh in with my $0.02. It's not really the compression ratio that's
fundamentally related to horsepower, but absolute compression. For example,
I think it's obvious that super/turbo charged motors are more efficient than
ones that are normally aspirated even though they generally run much lower
compression ratios. To the extent that aluminum heads shed more heat, they
can run higher compression ratios to get the same absolute compression at
the same temperature. The comparison test that Sandy cites indicates that
the heat dissipation of aluminum heads is over rated. One thing you can't
argue with - especially in a Tiger - is the appox. 50# weight savings.

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Stephen Waybright
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 6:21 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net; Sandy Ganz
Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries

If Car Craft ran the same compression in both engines, there should be no HP
difference between the iron and alum heads... but the thing is, if all else
is identicle, you can run higher compression with alum heads before the
engine starts pinging because they dissipate heat faster. That's where the
extra HP comes from running Alum heads.

From achd73 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 13 20:54:42 2008
From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:54:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <56221.94941.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <949780.96246.qm@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It makes me feel good , just to be able to tell my friends that I know(in a direct and or an indirect manner) a BUNCH of smart guys and they are specially "Tiger" smart. Which makes them way smarter than the average car person.In my head at least. TonytheTiger


--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Stephen Waybright <gswaybright at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Stephen Waybright <gswaybright at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
> To: "tigers at autox.team.net" <tigers at autox.team.net>, "Sandy Ganz" <sganz at pacbell.net>
> Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 8:20 PM
> If Car Craft ran the same compression in both engines, there
> should be no HP difference between the iron and alum
> heads... but the thing is, if all else is identicle, you
> can run higher compression with alum heads before the
> engine starts pinging because they dissipate heat faster.
> That's where the extra HP comes from running Alum
> heads.
> 
> --- On Fri, 6/13/08, Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
> > To: "tigers at autox.team.net"
> <tigers at autox.team.net>
> > Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 2:19 PM
> > That is exactly the discussion I'm looking for! I
> did
> > poke around on the web
> > and found a car craft article debunking the HP
> loss/gain in
> > aluminum vs iron
> > head in some ways, with dyno data and while
> interesting not
> > totally
> > conclusive, but seems to cover a good amount of the
> common
> > cases run into in
> > warmed over motors. The summary was they picked up 2
> sets
> > of heads from Dart
> > Machine who makes an almost identical aluminum and
> iron
> > head for the SBC. They
> > flowed before testing and the iron head and aluminum
> were
> > very close in all
> > numbers. The numbers on the dyno were almost not
> measurably
> > different, they
> > also messed with timing and no difference where motors
> with
> > either head
> > type would detonate. Some other stuff too. I think the
> > compression for the
> > test was in the mid 10's so while I might not
> consider
> > it high, others might.
> > Long and short was HP was no different according to
> dyno
> > data. It did not
> > address any cooling system issues which would be more
> what
> > this thread was
> > about.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Jun 14 00:15:53 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:15:53 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] An Unresolved Stainless Steel Fastner Question
Message-ID: <48536219.9080206@mayfco.com>

Today I mentioned that I had received my stainless steel bolt assortment 
for reassembling my car. One of the list members on Alpines asked if I 
was going to cad plate them. So, like a big dummy, I ask why would I do 
that? Seems he wasn't really sure either but that some of you folk do it 
and that I should ask.

Ok, so why would anyone cad plate their stainless steel fasteners?  Is 
there a good technical reason or is it cosmetic or what the heck? Us 
inquiring minds wanna know. Oh, I always use a never seize on ss 
fasteners if somehow the cad plating is to prevent galling. Galvanic 
action?

help!!!


mayf

From twojohnsons at cox.net  Sat Jun 14 06:53:33 2008
From: twojohnsons at cox.net (Alvin Johnson)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 08:53:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
References: <060620081117.16986.48491CBB000036170000425A22218683269B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
	<006201c8c7db$cb7496c0$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
	<8CA9AD4ACE0FB8B-80C-8F@FWM-M33.sysops.aol.com>
	<004101c8cd54$5fb7d810$084cdd48@13930193605348f>
	<4852A9FD.6040602@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <002801c8ce1d$a74c5470$084cdd48@13930193605348f>

If we're talking street cars, I would think the difference would be 
negligible.
AJ 

From Carmods at aol.com  Sat Jun 14 07:11:36 2008
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:11:36 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <d3c.2347028d.35851d88@aol.com>

However,  since radiation and convection account for only a minor part of
the heat  dissipation system in a water-cooled engine, I would suspect
that painting  the heads would have a barely measurable effect.



Right on Bugz!
 
Aluminum heads do transfer more heat from the combustion chamber to the  
coolant. This added transfer lowers the effective compression ratio.
 
John Logan



**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

From sganz at pacbell.net  Sat Jun 14 08:55:33 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:55:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <100712.94928.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes car craft used same bottom ends, just swapped the heads, but the
interesting thing was their idea that they might be able to try to advance the
timing more on an Aluminum head vs Iron thus proving once and for all that it
does do better at reducing hot spots, etc. I think the test and assumption
might have been a bit loose at that point but they made the motor rattle at
the same timing with either aluminum or iron. Still a 'fair' indicator that
not much difference at that compression. I would have loved them to do a 12+:1
motor and see if that might have made something different. One thing I would
question is the aluminum head just reducing the hot spots or actually costing
some thermal efficiency as mentioned, in which case hp loss. But again, how
much? I'll always give some small HP back to get rid of weight ;-)
 
One other
thought that I had, since the headers are close to the most exposed outer
surface of the cylinder heads how much heat might be absorbed from that? If
I'm trying to get rid of heat from convection would seem headers are going to
mess with that whole idea. But like I said in the grand scheme of things my
vote (IMO) goes with won't be a measurable difference if painted, polished or
raw.
Sandy
P.S. The Galpin event with Dan Gurney was pretty quiet, about as
many Saleen folks as Mustang'er. Still nice, and he was very acomadating with
the people that did show up.

From zymmer4 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 14 10:55:30 2008
From: zymmer4 at yahoo.com (Howard gentry)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:55:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <003a01c8cdc1$257313a0$70593ae0$@com>
Message-ID: <468237.26937.qm@web51307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

hi..I do believe that alloy heads do much more to promote good thermodynamanics in the combustion area that can be realised..
zimmer4

The Blues is the only music Original to the United States of America.

--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Robert Palmer &lt;rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com&gt; wrote:

From: Robert Palmer &lt;rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com&gt;
Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
To: gswaybright at yahoo.com, tigers at autox.team.net, "'Sandy Ganz'" &lt;sganz at pacbell.net&gt;
Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 9:51 PM

I'll weigh in with my $0.02. It's not really the compression ratio
that's
fundamentally related to horsepower, but absolute compression. For example,
I think it's obvious that super/turbo charged motors are more efficient
than
ones that are normally aspirated even though they generally run much lower
compression ratios. To the extent that aluminum heads shed more heat, they
can run higher compression ratios to get the same absolute compression at
the same temperature. The comparison test that Sandy cites indicates that
the heat dissipation of aluminum heads is over rated. One thing you can't
argue with - especially in a Tiger - is the appox. 50# weight savings.

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Stephen Waybright
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 6:21 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net; Sandy Ganz
Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries

If Car Craft ran the same compression in both engines, there should be no HP
difference between the iron and alum heads... but the thing is, if all else
is identicle, you can run higher compression with alum heads before the
engine starts pinging because they dissipate heat faster. That's where the
extra HP comes from running Alum heads.
You are subscribed as zymmer4 at yahoo.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 14 14:13:44 2008
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <100712.94928.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <194244.90816.qm@web31705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The flaw with Car Craft's logic is that pinging (pre-ignition) due to
advancing the timing is a different effect than pre-ignition due to higher
compression ratios, and advancing the ignition timing will not produce the
kind of HP increses that higher (effective) compression will.

--- On Sat, 6/14/08, Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net> wrote:

> From: Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
> To: gswaybright at yahoo.com, tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 10:55 AM
> Yes car craft used same bottom ends, just swapped the heads,
> but the interesting thing was their idea that they might be
> able to try to advance the timing more on an Aluminum head
> vs Iron thus proving once and for all that it does do
> better at reducing hot spots, etc. I think the test and
> assumption might have been a bit loose at that point but
> they made the motor rattle at the same timing with either
> aluminum or iron. Still a 'fair' indicator that
> not much difference at that compression. I would have loved
> them to do a 12+:1 motor and see if that might have made
> something different. One thing I would question is the
> aluminum head just reducing the hot spots or actually
> costing some thermal efficiency as mentioned, in which case
> hp loss. But again, how much? I'll always give some
> small HP back to get rid of weight ;-)
>  
> One other thought that I had, since the headers are close
> to the most exposed outer surface of the cylinder heads how
> much heat might be absorbed from that? If I'm trying to
> get rid of heat from convection would seem headers are
> going to mess with that whole idea. But like I said in the
> grand scheme of things my vote (IMO) goes with won't be
> a measurable difference if painted, polished or raw.
> Sandy
> P.S. The Galpin event with Dan Gurney was pretty quiet,
> about as many Saleen folks as Mustang'er. Still nice,
> and he was very acomadating with the people that did show
> up.

From achd73 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 15 04:33:39 2008
From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 03:33:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Dad's Day
Message-ID: <449012.66403.qm@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Still up from cooling enough to look for parts at the shop and I definitely want to seek completion of repairs and to learn just how much is broken as opposed to just bent. George your bumper brackets are getting closer to the shop door according to my son. I will try to remember to call soon.

The real purpose of this email was to send HDD greetings to all of the group who are Daddy's or Grand Daddy's, like my self. Seems there is something to spend money on pretty rapidly. For those who are young enough that their Dad is still with us. Well you are both VERY lucky and I envy ALL who have that group. Its getting daylight, my eyes are sticking closed. Hope I didnt make to many mistakes. CHEERS to our LIST. May you all see many more Daddy's Day's. warmly, TonytheTiger

From jim at island.net  Sun Jun 15 10:56:30 2008
From: jim at island.net (Jim)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:56:30 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart movie car(s)
In-Reply-To: <100712.94928.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01e101c8cf08$c23880b0$4101a8c0@JIMPC>

If anyone is wondering where they got the 'Tiger' for the Get Smart movie...
Would you believe ... Canada...?

http://www.sunbeamcanada.org/ARCHIVES/Rota/ROOTES%20ROTA%2020080614%202.2%20
Get%20Smart.pdf


Jim
B382000446

From jim at island.net  Sun Jun 15 11:30:04 2008
From: jim at island.net (Jim)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:30:04 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart movie car(s)
In-Reply-To: <01e101c8cf08$c23880b0$4101a8c0@JIMPC>
Message-ID: <01e201c8cf0d$74d1a540$4101a8c0@JIMPC>

Sorry, for some reason, the whole 'link' didn't get highlighted... just copy
and paste the entire link including 'pdf' ...

Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: June 15, 2008 9:57 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart movie car(s)

If anyone is wondering where they got the 'Tiger' for the Get Smart movie...
Would you believe ... Canada...?

http://www.sunbeamcanada.org/ARCHIVES/Rota/ROOTES%20ROTA%2020080614%202.2%20
Get%20Smart.pdf


Jim
B382000446
You are subscribed as jim at island.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Sun Jun 15 11:54:24 2008
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:54:24 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] British Car Day, Brookline, MA
Message-ID: <001101c8cf10$d9161ab0$6601a8c0@Brennan>

The New England Region of Tigers East/Alpines East starts off the summer
on June 29 with our usual gathering at British Car Day at the Larz
Anderson Auto Museum, in Brookline, MA.  There are usually 200 or more
British cars of every imaginable description dripping oil on the
museum's lawn.  Wondering how big it really is?  See my pictures from
last year at:

 

http://www.pbase.com/sb_photos/bdc2007

 

The museum's official announcement says it starts at 10:00 AM, but we
all know cars will be rolling in much earlier than that.  There are
details and directions at: 

 

http://www.larzanderson.org <http://www.larzanderson.org/> 

 

Registration is $20, and pre-registration is available.  As usual,
expect to see a few TE/AE members supporting the event, at registration,
directing parking, or whatever.  There are some new staff members at the
museum, and there are signs that this event will be better organized
than in the past.

 

All are welcome, member or not.  I hope to see you there!

 

Stu Brennan

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sun Jun 15 13:28:50 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:28:50 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
Message-ID: <48556D72.9040007@SoCal.rr.com>

Tigers,

New L.A.Times article about BMW and Hydrogen Cars.  BMW new "Hydrogen 7" 
has a hydrogen gas fueled prototypes on the road in SoCal. They are 
loaned to actors and actresses, sports figures, opera stars and other 
"A" list celebrities. The other models use "fuel cells" to convert 
hydrogen to combine with oxygen and generate electricity.

You would think that the Germans might have learned something from the 
Hindenburg (1937):

http://www.powerset.com/explore/semhtml/LZ_129_Hindenburg?query=Hindenburg

But here we go again.

The article described many manufacturer's hydrogen offerings as well.  
In this article Actress Joely Fisher (daughter of Eddie Fisher and 
Connie Stevens), gets one. Interestingly enough the car has a full tank 
range of 130 miles.  Her closest licensed Hydrogen station available is 
in Oxnard, CA. Some 120 miles R.T. from Beverly Hills (note: she may NOT 
live there).   In CA, there are only 25 stations statewide. Nationwide 
there are just 61 stations, including California's. A driver picks up 
the car from her and drives it to Oxnard for refueling by licensed 
"attendants", then returns it.

Lets see, a range of 130 miles means that the owner must have a half 
tank before sending it for refueling. On arriving at the fueling station 
it will have it will get a fill.  Upon return it will have a half tank.

So, net gain is ZERO.

So, the message is:  Even if the chauffeur is free, and the fuel is 
free, you are no better off!

To top it off, while the car may be pollution free, the making of the 
hydrogen takes more energy than it provides in the car.  And it ain't cheap.

Anyway, take it to heart.  The Greenies think this is the solution.  Of 
course the use a bicycle.

Have a good day, for you fathers everywhere.  It's the only day you get, 
and YOU have to BBQ!

Steve
-- 

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From mrlau at charter.net  Sun Jun 15 14:36:50 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:36:50 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]  BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
Message-ID: <20080615203747.VOUE3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

------To top it off, while the car may be pollution free, the making of the
hydrogen takes more energy than it provides in the car.  And it ain't
cheap.------

  Steve, it is cheap when you and I are paying to subsidize the hydrogen and
it makes the owner "feel" so "good". (I suppose the good feeling is because
your's and my money is what was spent).-- Bill -- 


Tigers,

New L.A.Times article about BMW and Hydrogen Cars.  BMW new "Hydrogen 7" 
has a hydrogen gas fueled prototypes on the road in SoCal. They are 
loaned to actors and actresses, sports figures, opera stars and other 
"A" list celebrities. The other models use "fuel cells" to convert 
hydrogen to combine with oxygen and generate electricity.

You would think that the Germans might have learned something from the 
Hindenburg (1937):

http://www.powerset.com/explore/semhtml/LZ_129_Hindenburg?query=Hindenburg

But here we go again.

The article described many manufacturer's hydrogen offerings as well.  
In this article Actress Joely Fisher (daughter of Eddie Fisher and 
Connie Stevens), gets one. Interestingly enough the car has a full tank 
range of 130 miles.  Her closest licensed Hydrogen station available is 
in Oxnard, CA. Some 120 miles R.T. from Beverly Hills (note: she may NOT 
live there).   In CA, there are only 25 stations statewide. Nationwide 
there are just 61 stations, including California's. A driver picks up 
the car from her and drives it to Oxnard for refueling by licensed 
"attendants", then returns it.

Lets see, a range of 130 miles means that the owner must have a half 
tank before sending it for refueling. On arriving at the fueling station 
it will have it will get a fill.  Upon return it will have a half tank.

So, net gain is ZERO.

So, the message is:  Even if the chauffeur is free, and the fuel is 
free, you are no better off!

To top it off, while the car may be pollution free, the making of the 
hydrogen takes more energy than it provides in the car.  And it ain't cheap.

Anyway, take it to heart.  The Greenies think this is the solution.  Of 
course the use a bicycle.

Have a good day, for you fathers everywhere.  It's the only day you get, 
and YOU have to BBQ!

Steve
-- 

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com
You are subscribed as mrlau at charter.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From shutchin at netjets.com  Sun Jun 15 14:41:38 2008
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:41:38 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

I think the common wisdom is now that the silver nitrate (could have the exact compound wrong) in the fabric covering of the Hindenberg was what caused the fire and not the Hydrogen. 




Scott Hutchinson
Director of Operations
Netjets Large Aircraft

Office 860.292.1191
Mobile 843.290.2805

** *******
This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error,  please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message.

From tsmit at shaw.ca  Sun Jun 15 15:09:20 2008
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:09:20 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
References: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
Message-ID: <48558500.2020200@shaw.ca>

In one of last year's Mythbusters episodes, they noted that the 
Hindenburg was covered with a two-layer finish, the first of which 
contained iron oxide and the second layer contained aluminum particles, 
which (in their hypothesis) caused a massive thermite type reaction when 
it was sparked. They built a model and lit it off in grand fashion, 
although I forget if the finish mixture they used for that demonstration 
was close to the real thing.

Theo

Scott Hutchinson wrote:
> I think the common wisdom is now that the silver nitrate (could have the exact compound wrong) in the fabric covering of the Hindenberg was what caused the fire and not the Hydrogen. 

From fastsage at cox.net  Sun Jun 15 15:18:38 2008
From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:18:38 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Idle Issue
Message-ID: <4855872E.7030104@cox.net>

I've been fighting this for a while but no sure solution yet.

When it's hot out, my idle speed tends to be lower, plus when I'm coming 
to a stop the idle will sometimes drop considerably, then come up again 
after the stop is completed. In really hot weather, though, the idle 
still tends to run 300 + RPM lower than normal, from where it can 
ocasionally stall. Other than that, the car accelerates and cruises 
beautifully. If I can pick a point where this happens readily, it's if 
my water temp is over 200-210. If it's 190 or below (normal highway temp 
in hot weather), it doesn't happen.

I have a 289 with a Holley 570 Street Avenger carb. There is already a 
metal baffle (stock with this carb) in the front float bowl, just under 
the air passage above, that's supposed to keep fuel from sloshing up 
there. I've re-checked the float levels in both bowls and the fuel level 
is just at the bottom of the sight holes.

I switched out my old aftermarket "cube" fuel pump and installed a 
Holley red pump a couple of weeks ago. Fuel pressure is now between 5-6 
PSI at hot idle vs the 3-5 when hot with the old pump. This has helped a 
little bit with the lower RPM issue when hot, but not completely.

I talked to Holley about this and the tech guy said to check my power 
valve size, if the fuel levels were already correct, which they 
apparently are. The carb came with an 8.5 valve but I checked and the 
idle vacuum is between 15 and 16 so, by Holley's formula, I need to run 
the next size smaller, a 7.5, which I've bought and will install this 
week. Holley says that the bigger power valve would be open even at idle 
and in addition to hurting gas mileage, this could probably cause the 
RPM drops at hot idle and coming to stops.

Before I take the carb apart again, does the Holley guy's theory make 
sense? Any additional ideas on what could be causing this?

By the way, I installed cruise control last week and it makes an 
amazingly good difference for long distance cruising. It was a bear of a 
job (for me anyway) but now that it's done it was definitely worth it. 
Highly recommended to anyone who's been thinking of it.

Steve Sage




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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jun 15 15:45:30 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:45:30 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <48556D72.9040007@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <48556D72.9040007@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <48558D7A.2080802@mayfco.com>

As Steve says...H2 is merely a storage medium. It only gives back 
exactly what it takes to produce it. And the heat available is 1/5, if I 
remember correctl;y, that of gasoline. So it take a lot of H2 to go 
anywhere and the power it makes is way less.  H2 must be stored at very 
high pressures in order to get enough volume to go any distance.  There 
are two types of fuel cells that use H2. One gets its O2 fromt he 
atmosphere and the other is a mix of H2 and O2 called Brown gass (maybe 
that is Browns gas).  On the salt this past summer, Ford ran their H2 
fueled fuel cell cal using brown gass. two massive tanks wer needed and 
the entire front of the car was an ice intercooler to keep the fuel 
cells cooled. It did however, make a 207+ pass out the back door at the 
5 mile trap.  There are some H2 busses, I think here in the Las Vegas 
area. But you have to go to a H2 filling station to get refuled. I 
haven't seen one yet... 

On eday it may be ok, but not now.

mayf
Steve Laifman wrote:

>Tigers,
>
>New L.A.Times article about BMW and Hydrogen Cars.  BMW new "Hydrogen 7" 
>has a hydrogen gas fueled prototypes on the road in SoCal. They are 
>loaned to actors and actresses, sports figures, opera stars and other 
>"A" list celebrities. The other models use "fuel cells" to convert 
>hydrogen to combine with oxygen and generate electricity.
>
>You would think that the Germans might have learned something from the 
>Hindenburg (1937):
>
>http://www.powerset.com/explore/semhtml/LZ_129_Hindenburg?query=Hindenburg
>
>But here we go again.
>
>The article described many manufacturer's hydrogen offerings as well.  
>In this article Actress Joely Fisher (daughter of Eddie Fisher and 
>Connie Stevens), gets one. Interestingly enough the car has a full tank 
>range of 130 miles.  Her closest licensed Hydrogen station available is 
>in Oxnard, CA. Some 120 miles R.T. from Beverly Hills (note: she may NOT 
>live there).   In CA, there are only 25 stations statewide. Nationwide 
>there are just 61 stations, including California's. A driver picks up 
>the car from her and drives it to Oxnard for refueling by licensed 
>"attendants", then returns it.
>
>Lets see, a range of 130 miles means that the owner must have a half 
>tank before sending it for refueling. On arriving at the fueling station 
>it will have it will get a fill.  Upon return it will have a half tank.
>
>So, net gain is ZERO.
>
>So, the message is:  Even if the chauffeur is free, and the fuel is 
>free, you are no better off!
>
>To top it off, while the car may be pollution free, the making of the 
>hydrogen takes more energy than it provides in the car.  And it ain't cheap.
>
>Anyway, take it to heart.  The Greenies think this is the solution.  Of 
>course the use a bicycle.
>
>Have a good day, for you fathers everywhere.  It's the only day you get, 
>and YOU have to BBQ!
>
>Steve

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jun 15 15:46:21 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:46:21 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <48556D72.9040007@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <48556D72.9040007@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <48558DAD.60304@mayfco.com>

As Steve says...H2 is merely a storage medium. It only gives back
exactly what it takes to produce it. And the heat available is 1/5, if I
remember correctl;y, that of gasoline. So it take a lot of H2 to go
anywhere and the power it makes is way less.  H2 must be stored at very
high pressures in order to get enough volume to go any distance.  There
are two types of fuel cells that use H2. One gets its O2 fromt he
atmosphere and the other is a mix of H2 and O2 called Brown gass (maybe
that is Browns gas).  On the salt this past summer, Ford ran their H2
fueled fuel cell cal using brown gass. two massive tanks wer needed and
the entire front of the car was an ice intercooler to keep the fuel
cells cooled. It did however, make a 207+ pass out the back door at the
5 mile trap.  There are some H2 busses, I think here in the Las Vegas
area. But you have to go to a H2 filling station to get refuled. I
haven't seen one yet...

On eday it may be ok, but not now.

mayf
Steve Laifman wrote:

>Tigers,
>
>New L.A.Times article about BMW and Hydrogen Cars.  BMW new "Hydrogen 7" 
>has a hydrogen gas fueled prototypes on the road in SoCal. They are 
>loaned to actors and actresses, sports figures, opera stars and other 
>"A" list celebrities. The other models use "fuel cells" to convert 
>hydrogen to combine with oxygen and generate electricity.
>
>You would think that the Germans might have learned something from the 
>Hindenburg (1937):
>
>http://www.powerset.com/explore/semhtml/LZ_129_Hindenburg?query=Hindenburg
>
>But here we go again.
>
>The article described many manufacturer's hydrogen offerings as well.  
>In this article Actress Joely Fisher (daughter of Eddie Fisher and 
>Connie Stevens), gets one. Interestingly enough the car has a full tank 
>range of 130 miles.  Her closest licensed Hydrogen station available is 
>in Oxnard, CA. Some 120 miles R.T. from Beverly Hills (note: she may NOT 
>live there).   In CA, there are only 25 stations statewide. Nationwide 
>there are just 61 stations, including California's. A driver picks up 
>the car from her and drives it to Oxnard for refueling by licensed 
>"attendants", then returns it.
>
>Lets see, a range of 130 miles means that the owner must have a half 
>tank before sending it for refueling. On arriving at the fueling station 
>it will have it will get a fill.  Upon return it will have a half tank.
>
>So, net gain is ZERO.
>
>So, the message is:  Even if the chauffeur is free, and the fuel is 
>free, you are no better off!
>
>To top it off, while the car may be pollution free, the making of the 
>hydrogen takes more energy than it provides in the car.  And it ain't cheap.
>
>Anyway, take it to heart.  The Greenies think this is the solution.  Of 
>course the use a bicycle.
>
>Have a good day, for you fathers everywhere.  It's the only day you get, 
>and YOU have to BBQ!
>
>Steve

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Sun Jun 15 17:54:04 2008
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:54:04 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
References: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
Message-ID: <44B35AEE139741DD8A53A34F91B6B544@DellD4700>

The Mythbusters episode dealing with the Hindenberg was rerun recently. The
conclusion was that the fabric and the hydrogen combined to cause the fire. 
They duplicated the fabric and found that it would certainly burn, but not
with the intensity shown in the old newsreel footage. They tried adding
hydrogen and got an explosion. Finally, after building a largish model with
the duplicated fabric and filling it with a diluted hydrogen/air mixture,
they got a burn just like the newsreel pictures.

A.C. Tynes
New Orleans


> 
> I think the common wisdom is now that the silver nitrate (could have the
> exact compound wrong) in the fabric covering of the Hindenberg was what
> caused the fire and not the Hydrogen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Hutchinson

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sun Jun 15 22:17:19 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:17:19 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
References: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
Message-ID: <4855E94F.8040500@SoCal.rr.com>

Scott,

Discovery Channel, Myth Busters, claims that their extreme test would 
NOT ignite even when highly combustible thermite was over-loaded into 
the aluminum paint.

That may be "common wisdom", but a reading of the referenced article, 
concluded that massive amounts of the pyrotechnic THERMITE, might have 
been a contributer, but the actual paint did not contain THERMITE.

The hydrogen did burn when air was present.  There were reports of some 
gas bags leaking into the interior spaces, mixing with the air.  There 
might have been a static electricity discharge in the aft end of the 
interior, which would burn from rear to front.

http://www.powerset.com/explore/semhtml/LZ_129_Hindenburg?query=Hindenburg

I was a day when the air was charged with static electricity, and the landing cables were conductive.

Food for thought, and it has been since May, 1937.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Scott Hutchinson wrote:
> I think the common wisdom is now that the silver nitrate (could have the exact compound wrong) in the fabric covering of the Hindenberg was what caused the fire and not the Hydrogen. 
>
>
>
>
> Scott Hutchinson
> Director of Operations
> Netjets Large Aircraft

From chris at cthompson.net  Sun Jun 15 22:31:00 2008
From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:31:00 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <4855E94F.8040500@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
	<4855E94F.8040500@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4855EC84.70307@cthompson.net>

An acquaintance  of mine who is a big-shot at one of the leading 
gas-supplying companies has been buying up all the methane resources 
around the world he can for years now.  It's such a cheap resource, it's 
normally burned off as waste.  They are convinced that methane, not 
hydrogen, will fill that sector void...

Chris

Steve Laifman wrote:
> Scott,
>
> Discovery Channel, Myth Busters, claims that their extreme test would 
> NOT ignite even when highly combustible thermite was over-loaded into 
> the aluminum paint.
>
> That may be "common wisdom", but a reading of the referenced article, 
> concluded that massive amounts of the pyrotechnic THERMITE, might have 
> been a contributer, but the actual paint did not contain THERMITE.
>
> The hydrogen did burn when air was present.  There were reports of some 
> gas bags leaking into the interior spaces, mixing with the air.  There 
> might have been a static electricity discharge in the aft end of the 
> interior, which would burn from rear to front.
>
> http://www.powerset.com/explore/semhtml/LZ_129_Hindenburg?query=Hindenburg
>
> I was a day when the air was charged with static electricity, and the landing cables were conductive.
>
> Food for thought, and it has been since May, 1937.
>
> Steve
>
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
>
>
>
> Scott Hutchinson wrote:
>   
>> I think the common wisdom is now that the silver nitrate (could have the exact compound wrong) in the fabric covering of the Hindenberg was what caused the fire and not the Hydrogen. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott Hutchinson
>> Director of Operations
>> Netjets Large Aircraft
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as chris at cthompson.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Jun 15 23:09:53 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:09:53 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] BMW Gas (NOT Gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <4855EC84.70307@cthompson.net>
References: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7A6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
	<4855E94F.8040500@SoCal.rr.com> <4855EC84.70307@cthompson.net>
Message-ID: <4855F5A1.3030009@mayfco.com>

Aaahhh, since methane is a far worse green house gas than CO2 then we 
can blame him for global warming when it is accidentally released, lol. 
Just pulling your chain a bit... Seriously I do no think methane is any 
better than LNG or CNG for fuel and the  US has zillions of cubic feet 
of the stuff. The issue is again a lack of heat available within the 
fuel and the very short ranges afforded by the use of those gasses as a 
motor fuel. CNG cars and pickup have been in circulation for some time 
now. HAven't caught on because  filling stations are very few and very 
far between and the ranges per very large tank fillup is very short  in 
comparison to gasoline.  BioDiesel-electric may be the answer (think 
like a locomotive).

mayf
Chris Thompson wrote:

>An acquaintance  of mine who is a big-shot at one of the leading 
>gas-supplying companies has been buying up all the methane resources 
>around the world he can for years now.  It's such a cheap resource, it's 
>normally burned off as waste.  They are convinced that methane, not 
>hydrogen, will fill that sector void...
>
>Chris
>
>Steve Laifman wrote:
>  
>
>>Scott,
>>
>>Discovery Channel, Myth Busters, claims that their extreme test would 
>>NOT ignite even when highly combustible thermite was over-loaded into 
>>the aluminum paint.
>>
>>That may be "common wisdom", but a reading of the referenced article, 
>>concluded that massive amounts of the pyrotechnic THERMITE, might have 
>>been a contributer, but the actual paint did not contain THERMITE.
>>
>>The hydrogen did burn when air was present.  There were reports of some 
>>gas bags leaking into the interior spaces, mixing with the air.  There 
>>might have been a static electricity discharge in the aft end of the 
>>interior, which would burn from rear to front.
>>
>>http://www.powerset.com/explore/semhtml/LZ_129_Hindenburg?query=Hindenburg
>>
>>I was a day when the air was charged with static electricity, and the landing cables were conductive.
>>
>>Food for thought, and it has been since May, 1937.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>___
>>Steve Laifman
>>Editor - TigersUnited.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Scott Hutchinson wrote:
>>  
>>    
>>
>>>I think the common wisdom is now that the silver nitrate (could have the exact compound wrong) in the fabric covering of the Hindenberg was what caused the fire and not the Hydrogen. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Scott Hutchinson
>>>Director of Operations
>>>Netjets Large Aircraft
>>>    
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Mon Jun 16 00:17:00 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:17:00 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Wine Country Classic
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806152317x583f0781s2aa30b4471acf043@mail.gmail.com>

I was looking through the recent pics/reports on the wine country classic
meet at the infeon raceway. They had lots of tigers listed, but all but 2
were DNS or DNF. The Tom Sakai car seeming to be the flag flyer.. however in
this video go to 2:22 and you will see either practice or the race and the
ex-SCF Tiger, yellow (ex shelby?) sakai tiger, fraser onester tiger and a
red tiger with white HT running. I see the HSC Tiger was listed as a DNS and
does not appear.

Has anyone got recent photos or reports on this? Why is the Tiger community
so lazzy in getting pics and videos of the cars racing up on onthe web?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSpqCvHbnxg&feature=related

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Jun 16 07:45:08 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 06:45:08 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Alloy Heads...
Message-ID: <48566E64.8090709@mayfco.com>

With regards to alloyheads for our cars, I asked a good friend, way up 
in Mystic, Conn, what   he thought about them. No his credentials are 
pretty good as you can see  in the edited reply he sen tto me....is it 
of any importance? I dunno..

here is his reply to my question  about the use of alloy heads on daily 
driver moderately hopped up motors.

"Been working seemingly day and night LOL success is vastly over 
rated..LOL..

The alloy heads are a tough call and it depends on the final goals.
The interesting thing is a good flowing head will allow the use of a 
camshaft with less duration and overlap all good for mileage and 
drivability..
Being alloy they seem less efficient thermally so not good for mileage 
yet all engines are using alloy heads so probably less important than it 
seems.

Iron heads are more prone to cracking or failure under changes in 
temperature. We used to crack them on shut down in the Winston Cup days.

Removing weight is always a plus for mileage and if it is high off the 
ground good to remove it for handling issues, though I doubt if 20 lbs 
makes much of a difference on a passenger car going legal speed limits.

Using the track as a dyno is a very bad idea as it is subjective rather 
than objective. You are a science guy and am sure well aware of all that 
is involved in proper testing and removing opinion from the results.
.
I am in the middle of doing 2 motorcycles for Bonneville, 2 Nissan GTP 
cars and a Riley Scott ford WSC car.. a Formula Holden, a Cosworth DFV 
for a formula 3000 car  and a bunch of of other nagging small projects.. 
So more than a little busy and the reason for being a little scarce..
Dave"

Dave owns and runs an Engine Management Service company for high end 
race mosheens. He builds and tunes these cars and bkes as well as doing 
a lot of hand made intake manifold systems for race cars.  When iwant an 
opinion on someting I am doing he alwasy has an opinion, lol. He is a 
good guy for me..

mayf

From todbrown at roadrunner.com  Mon Jun 16 08:54:27 2008
From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:54:27 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
Message-ID: <48567EA3.9060104@roadrunner.com>

Well, I am sure there will be accidents with hydrogen, if and when it 
ever comes to be used to power autos.
On the other hand, we also have accidents occasionally with gasoline.  
It is one of the reasons why sailboats
started to use diesel engines for auxiliary power instead of the old 
atomic 4's.  Nevertheless, although H2 has
a long way to go to become a viable source of power, due to technical 
issues as well as distribution, it is, IMHO,
worth considering, if for no other reason than being able to save the 
diminishing supply of gasoline for things for
which there is no substitute, such as old sports cars.  If gasoline 
prices continue to rise, other sources of
energy become more economically attractive and possibly can contribute 
to the reduction of carbon emissions
into the atmosphere.  For various reasons, it is becoming more desirable 
to reduce our consumption of fossil
fuels, rising prices being just one.  Yes, H2 is an energy sink, but 
what are the alternatives?  The attraction
of fossil fuels has always been that the energy costs of extraction have 
always been less than the energy
obtained from the resultant fuel but, except for nuclear and solar, 
there aren't any other readily available
energy sources.  Even though Ford suggested using nuclear-powered cars 
back in the 50's (what were they
thinking?), I don't think that is going to happen (how's that for an 
insightful prediction?)  There are some
interesting options with solar, either directly or indirectly (e.g. 
cellulose), but they are obviously also a long
ways away.  It will be an interesting couple of decades ahead of us.  I 
hope I last long enough to see the
outcome.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From CoolVT at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 09:43:55 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:43:55 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] grounding theory
Message-ID: <ca9.29414c77.3587e43b@aol.com>

Both the temperature sending unit and the starter solenoid are  shown as 
being grounded.  The question is how well do they have to be  grounded:-)  Will 
using teflon tape on the threads of the sending unit  allow the thread to cut 
through and still ground the unit?
I wasn't especially careful in scratching away paint at the base of  the 
solenoid to ensure good contact nor was I careful in being sure that  the washer 
on the bolt was making good contact with bare metal to  attach the solenoid.  
How well does this thing have to be  grounded?
I guess I am used to a picky electrical inspector  that insisted that the 
paint be scraped down to the bare metal and the  metal threaded to ensure a good 
ground.
Mark 



**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Mon Jun 16 09:55:28 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:55:28 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] grounding theory
In-Reply-To: <ca9.29414c77.3587e43b@aol.com>
References: <ca9.29414c77.3587e43b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806160855r7b841601r2aaf2fd67c7a1e1d@mail.gmail.com>

i guess if you can start the car its grounded ok. :)

i actually have a ground wire on mine though.

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:43 PM,  <CoolVT at aol.com> wrote:
> Both the temperature sending unit and the starter solenoid are  shown as
> being grounded.  The question is how well do they have to be  grounded:-)  Will
> using teflon tape on the threads of the sending unit  allow the thread to cut
> through and still ground the unit?
> I wasn't especially careful in scratching away paint at the base of  the
> solenoid to ensure good contact nor was I careful in being sure that  the washer
> on the bolt was making good contact with bare metal to  attach the solenoid.
> How well does this thing have to be  grounded?
> I guess I am used to a picky electrical inspector  that insisted that the
> paint be scraped down to the bare metal and the  metal threaded to ensure a good
> ground.
> Mark
>
>
>
> **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
> 2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Mon Jun 16 09:59:13 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:59:13 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] grounding theory
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F082@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

You can check the sending unit's ground with an ohm meter. Put one lead
on the intake manifold and the other on the sending unit itself, it
should read under 1 ohm.

The starter solenoid requires more current (probably a couple of amps)
and so it's proportionally more important to get a good ground there.
You should still be able to measure with an ohm meter but you'll have to
be more careful about the 'zero' setting on the ohm meter.
Short the two ohm meter leads together and (on a digital meter) take
note of the reading, then move the leads to the solenoid base and to a
bare part of the chassis or another good ground connection, and note the
reading. It should be no more than 0.1 ohm higher than the shorted
reading.
On an analog meter you can adjust the zero setting, so you first short
the leads and set the meter to read zero, then test the connection you
want to measure.

The most critical chassis connections are the one from the ground strap
to the battery, and the one from the transmission tunnel to the engine
block or transmission case. Those have to be low enough resistance that
you can't even measure them with a standard ohm meter, and it's
imperative that you clean down to bare metal on the chassis. If you're
connecting into a threaded nut plate on the chassis then it's probably
okay to just chase the threads with a tap and make sure it's bright and
clean before screwing a bolt into it, but it would be better to also
take the paint off the sheetmetal and give some insurance. You can top
coat it with touch up paint or anti-seize compound for corrosion
protection.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com
Sent: June 16, 2008 9:44 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] grounding theory

Both the temperature sending unit and the starter solenoid are  shown as
being grounded.  The question is how well do they have to be
grounded:-)  Will using teflon tape on the threads of the sending unit
allow the thread to cut through and still ground the unit?
I wasn't especially careful in scratching away paint at the base of  the
solenoid to ensure good contact nor was I careful in being sure that
the washer on the bolt was making good contact with bare metal to
attach the solenoid.
How well does this thing have to be  grounded?
I guess I am used to a picky electrical inspector  that insisted that
the paint be scraped down to the bare metal and the  metal threaded to
ensure a good ground.
Mark



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From mrlau at charter.net  Mon Jun 16 10:43:52 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:43:52 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <48567EA3.9060104@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <20080616164448.GAOT3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

----- Yes, H2 is an energy sink, but what are the alternatives?  ------

This is like saying something is stupid but let's do it anyway 'cause it
makes us feel like we are doing something good.  It takes oil to cram the
hydrogen in the bottle and it takes oil to process it to begin with and that
goes for just about all of the "new ideas". It even takes more oil to
process and deliver than it replaces.  More than zero gain, it is backwards.
It is just that no one wants to admit or face it. Ostrichisms -- Bill --

Well, I am sure there will be accidents with hydrogen, if and when it 
ever comes to be used to power autos.
On the other hand, we also have accidents occasionally with gasoline.  
It is one of the reasons why sailboats
started to use diesel engines for auxiliary power instead of the old 
atomic 4's.  Nevertheless, although H2 has
a long way to go to become a viable source of power, due to technical 
issues as well as distribution, it is, IMHO,
worth considering, if for no other reason than being able to save the 
diminishing supply of gasoline for things for
which there is no substitute, such as old sports cars.  If gasoline 
prices continue to rise, other sources of
energy become more economically attractive and possibly can contribute 
to the reduction of carbon emissions
into the atmosphere.  For various reasons, it is becoming more desirable 
to reduce our consumption of fossil
fuels, rising prices being just one.  Yes, H2 is an energy sink, but 
what are the alternatives?  The attraction
of fossil fuels has always been that the energy costs of extraction have 
always been less than the energy
obtained from the resultant fuel but, except for nuclear and solar, 
there aren't any other readily available
energy sources.  Even though Ford suggested using nuclear-powered cars 
back in the 50's (what were they
thinking?), I don't think that is going to happen (how's that for an 
insightful prediction?)  There are some
interesting options with solar, either directly or indirectly (e.g. 
cellulose), but they are obviously also a long
ways away.  It will be an interesting couple of decades ahead of us.  I 
hope I last long enough to see the
outcome.

From zymmer4 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 16 10:57:13 2008
From: zymmer4 at yahoo.com (Howard gentry)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Alloy Heads...
In-Reply-To: <48566E64.8090709@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <100412.17846.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

greetings,
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Again, It is my experience that the replacement of the iron head with the alloy head will yeild Much more streetability to a road machine..and..I wonder why all racing machines use them..That about sums up All of the uses i can think of.
Howard

The Blues is the only music Original to the United States of America.

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, drmayf &lt;drmayf at mayfco.com&gt; wrote:

From: drmayf &lt;drmayf at mayfco.com&gt;
Subject: [Tigers] Alloy Heads...
To: "tigers at autox.team.net" &lt;tigers at autox.team.net&gt;
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 9:45 AM

With regards to alloyheads for our cars, I asked a good friend, way up 
in Mystic, Conn, what   he thought about them. No his credentials are 
pretty good as you can see  in the edited reply he sen tto me....is it 
of any importance? I dunno..

here is his reply to my question  about the use of alloy heads on daily 
driver moderately hopped up motors.

"Been working seemingly day and night LOL success is vastly over 
rated..LOL..

The alloy heads are a tough call and it depends on the final goals.
The interesting thing is a good flowing head will allow the use of a 
camshaft with less duration and overlap all good for mileage and 
drivability..
Being alloy they seem less efficient thermally so not good for mileage 
yet all engines are using alloy heads so probably less important than it 
seems.

Iron heads are more prone to cracking or failure under changes in 
temperature. We used to crack them on shut down in the Winston Cup days.

Removing weight is always a plus for mileage and if it is high off the 
ground good to remove it for handling issues, though I doubt if 20 lbs 
makes much of a difference on a passenger car going legal speed limits.

Using the track as a dyno is a very bad idea as it is subjective rather 
than objective. You are a science guy and am sure well aware of all that 
is involved in proper testing and removing opinion from the results.
.
I am in the middle of doing 2 motorcycles for Bonneville, 2 Nissan GTP 
cars and a Riley Scott ford WSC car.. a Formula Holden, a Cosworth DFV 
for a formula 3000 car  and a bunch of of other nagging small projects.. 
So more than a little busy and the reason for being a little scarce..
Dave"

Dave owns and runs an Engine Management Service company for high end 
race mosheens. He builds and tunes these cars and bkes as well as doing 
a lot of hand made intake manifold systems for race cars.  When iwant an 
opinion on someting I am doing he alwasy has an opinion, lol. He is a 
good guy for me..

mayf
You are subscribed as zymmer4 at yahoo.com

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From Rollright at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 11:24:23 2008
From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:24:23 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Subject: Cross-members
Message-ID: <d1e.283e2ad3.3587fbc7@aol.com>

Hello,
 
Been a little frightened of late as I haven't ever had my cross-member out.  
I want very much to do all I can to do the Fulcrum pin fixes and the like.  
Sandblast the thing, check for cracks, and all.
 
But, to do it in season would be, well, using up precious New England  warm 
weather drive time.
 
Here is the question: can you use an Alpine cross-member, and if different  
from a Tiger, do what mods need be done (and of course have the clear benefit 
of  time)? Seems they must be darned similar.....or what?
 
And, are they easy to find? I'd imagine if different from a Tiger, Tiger  
cross-members would be hen's teeth, but maybe Alpine ones aren't.
 
Best regards,
 
Jim  Armstrong
Mk 1A 382002083
LRXFE



**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Mon Jun 16 11:40:14 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:40:14 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Subject: Cross-members
References: <d1e.283e2ad3.3587fbc7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006401c8cfd8$08863d80$0202a8c0@student2>

Jim,
 There is a significant difference between the two crossmembers. The most 
prominent being the scallop cut at the front and the mounts for the steering 
rack (the Alpine used a steering box). I hope you can balance the fun of 
Summer and the desire to go through the front end.
Tom



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Rollright at aol.com>
To: <tigers at Autox.Team.Net>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:24 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Subject: Cross-members


> Hello,
>
> Been a little frightened of late as I haven't ever had my cross-member 
> out.
> I want very much to do all I can to do the Fulcrum pin fixes and the like.
> Sandblast the thing, check for cracks, and all.
>
> But, to do it in season would be, well, using up precious New England 
> warm
> weather drive time.
>
> Here is the question: can you use an Alpine cross-member, and if different
> from a Tiger, do what mods need be done (and of course have the clear 
> benefit
> of  time)? Seems they must be darned similar.....or what?
>
> And, are they easy to find? I'd imagine if different from a Tiger, Tiger
> cross-members would be hen's teeth, but maybe Alpine ones aren't.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim  Armstrong
> Mk 1A 382002083
> LRXFE
>
>
>
> **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
> 2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as atwittsend at verizon.net
>
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From sganz at pacbell.net  Mon Jun 16 10:14:25 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] grounding theory
Message-ID: <279600.81451.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Get an ohm meter and check it out, hit the intake manifold and the senders
ground, should tell all. 
I think most of the systems are pretty tollerent,
but I'll bet your ground is better then you think. I have a substantial
grounding strap to block (bell housing bolt) from the chassis and to the
battery as I have always worried as well. But I think that when you look at
what it might be in the grand tollerance of the system it will not be off that
much. And cleaner connections are always better but sometimes difficult to
have. If your teflon tape is really insulating the sender you will find out as
your gauge won't work all that well depending on the sender type will read
cold or hot right off the bat due to the high resistance of the bad connection
(High ohm's).
Sandy

----- Original Message ----
From: "CoolVT at aol.com"
<CoolVT at aol.com>
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 8:43:55
AM
Subject: [Tigers] grounding theory

Both the temperature sending unit and
the starter solenoid are  shown as 
being grounded.  The question is how well
do they have to be  grounded:-)  Will 
using teflon tape on the threads of the
sending unit  allow the thread to cut 
through and still ground the unit?
I
wasn't especially careful in scratching away paint at the base of  the
solenoid to ensure good contact nor was I careful in being sure that  the
washer 
on the bolt was making good contact with bare metal to  attach the
solenoid.  
How well does this thing have to be  grounded?
I guess I am used
to a picky electrical inspector  that insisted that the 
paint be scraped down
to the bare metal and the  metal threaded to ensure a good 
ground.
Mark
**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
_______________________________________________
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From todbrown at roadrunner.com  Mon Jun 16 11:46:09 2008
From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:46:09 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
Message-ID: <4856A6E1.8040407@roadrunner.com>

"This is like saying something is stupid but let's do it anyway 'cause it
makes us feel like we are doing something good.  It takes oil to cram the
hydrogen in the bottle and it takes oil to process it to begin with and that
goes for just about all of the "new ideas". It even takes more oil to
process and deliver than it replaces.  More than zero gain, it is backwards.
It is just that no one wants to admit or face it. Ostrichisms -- Bill --"

Bill:

I would agree that it does not make sense from the standpoint of energy, and
that was sort of my point, too.  However, we are now in the situation of having
all of our eggs in one basket and there are good reasons not to remain in that
situation.  Do we ignore the problem and continue to use gasoline, thus making
us more and more dependent on the sources of the same and probably continuing
to drive up the price, or can we diversify our energy sources in such a way as to preserve the supply of gasoline for a longer period of time and, perhaps, 
even have a positive effect on the environment?  All I am saying is that all the possibilities should be investigated, thus allowing us some flexibility in our choices rather than just continuing on the path we are on while ignoring reality.  I don't think that BMW and GM and the rest are entirely stupid, so they must envision a scenario in which H2 can play a role.  Let's give a little credit for their willingness to try the experiment.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Mon Jun 16 11:59:41 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:59:41 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] grounding theory
In-Reply-To: <ca9.29414c77.3587e43b@aol.com>
References: <ca9.29414c77.3587e43b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4856AA0D.7050304@SoCal.rr.com>

Mark,

I have always been fond of sharp edged star washers in places where 
assured grounding is important.  Of course they do have to penetrate the 
paint to make a good ground.  Everything has it's pluses and minuses, 
but a clear coat over the washer/nut can reduce rusting.

Luck,

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
> Both the temperature sending unit and the starter solenoid are  shown as 
> being grounded.  The question is how well do they have to be  grounded:-)  Will 
> using teflon tape on the threads of the sending unit  allow the thread to cut 
> through and still ground the unit?
> I wasn't especially careful in scratching away paint at the base of  the 
> solenoid to ensure good contact nor was I careful in being sure that  the washer 
> on the bolt was making good contact with bare metal to  attach the solenoid.  
> How well does this thing have to be  grounded?
> I guess I am used to a picky electrical inspector  that insisted that the 
> paint be scraped down to the bare metal and the  metal threaded to ensure a good 
> ground.
> Mark 

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Mon Jun 16 12:49:33 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:49:33 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] "A Modest Proposal"
In-Reply-To: <4856A6E1.8040407@roadrunner.com>
References: <4856A6E1.8040407@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <4856B5BD.4050301@SoCal.rr.com>

Tod, Bill, and Tigers,

A scenario for the future. 

   1. Alternate energy sources will become mandatory on new cars to
      "conserve" petroleum.
   2. As fewer vehicle use gasoline, the costs will increase from lack
      of demand and still high costs for manufacture of gasoline.  Just
      the opposite of the "law of supply and demand" as profit margins
      must still be maintained.
   3. State & Federal laws will subsequently add many more taxes on
      petroleum manufacture and use.
   4. Soon local and federal laws will un-license older cars to enhance
      the proportion of "environmentally friendly" alternatives. (which
      take more energy than they save)
   5. YOUR cars will be un-licensed for the road, and will either be in
      museums or scrap heaps.

To top it all off, the mandatory reductions in CO2 will kill off the 
forests trees , corn and wheat yields which breathe the CO2 and emit the 
noxious gas Oxygen.  Those living creatures that breathe oxygen will be 
severely reduced, and impoverished from lack of food.

Well, that's my $0.02 worth (current value $2.57). :-(

Steve

A "modest proposal" per Jonathan Swift:
"Save the World, Eliminate Greenies"

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Tod Brown wrote:
> "This is like saying something is stupid but let's do it anyway 'cause it
> makes us feel like we are doing something good.  It takes oil to cram the
> hydrogen in the bottle and it takes oil to process it to begin with and that
> goes for just about all of the "new ideas". It even takes more oil to
> process and deliver than it replaces.  More than zero gain, it is backwards.
> It is just that no one wants to admit or face it. Ostrichisms -- Bill --"
>
> Bill:
>
> I would agree that it does not make sense from the standpoint of energy, and
> that was sort of my point, too.  However, we are now in the situation of having
> all of our eggs in one basket and there are good reasons not to remain in that
> situation.  Do we ignore the problem and continue to use gasoline, thus making
> us more and more dependent on the sources of the same and probably continuing
> to drive up the price, or can we diversify our energy sources in such a way as to preserve the supply of gasoline for a longer period of time and, perhaps, 
> even have a positive effect on the environment?  All I am saying is that all the possibilities should be investigated, thus allowing us some flexibility in our choices rather than just continuing on the path we are on while ignoring reality.  I don't think that BMW and GM and the rest are entirely stupid, so they must envision a scenario in which H2 can play a role.  Let's give a little credit for their willingness to try the experiment.
>
> Tod
> B382002384LRXFE

From mark.rense at ge.com  Mon Jun 16 13:29:23 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:29:23 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <4856A6E1.8040407@roadrunner.com>
References: <4856A6E1.8040407@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04C719BF@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

You are correct, it is not a smart thing to do from an energy balance
point of view...today. However, if you had a large amount of cheap and
clean electrical power from solar, wind or..dare I say...nuclear to
convert, process and compress hydrogen, then using H2 as an energy
transfer medium makes sense.

When someone comes up with fusion power, we should be OK, there's enough
deuterium in the oceans to last a few million years or so. In the mean
time, I vote to put the Navy in charge of power generation in this
country, a few A4W's scattered around the country would solve most of
these energy woes. Their safety record since the first nuke boat, the
1954 USS Nautilus, has been impeccable. What of the waste, you ask?
Recycle it, then send the residual into space (or maybe Pahrump) :>).

Bugz - an old Navy nuke guy who has had the honor of being personally
chastised by Adm. Rickover...and survived.

-----Original Message-----
From: On Behalf Of Tod Brown
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:46 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net; William Lau
Subject: Re: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)

"This is like saying something is stupid but let's do it anyway 'cause
it makes us feel like we are doing something good.  It takes oil to cram
the hydrogen in the bottle and it takes oil to process it to begin with
and that goes for just about all of the "new ideas". It even takes more
oil to process and deliver than it replaces.  More than zero gain, it is
backwards.
It is just that no one wants to admit or face it. Ostrichisms -- Bill
--"

From mrlau at charter.net  Mon Jun 16 13:47:07 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:47:07 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <4856A6E1.8040407@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <20080616194804.QNPK3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

As long as it takes oil to process whatever is done and it takes more oil
energy than is gained by the process, it is foolish.  The only energy source
that is viable at this time is nuclear and that effort has been put back 40
years by people that insist that something like hydrogen, alcohol and
methane will work because nuclear is too dangerous.  Running out of fuel and
giving the Middle East enough money to be a viable threat is also dangerous.
Refusing to drill for oil off our coasts while Cuba and China do it is
another ridiculous practice.  Not drilling in Anwr, senseless.  Just because
GM or BMW do things for PC publicity, doesn't make it viable.  There aren't
enough "goodies" in a gas tank size container of hydrogen for it to ever be
practical not to mention the difficulty in containing it. -- Bill --

Bill:

I would agree that it does not make sense from the standpoint of energy, and
that was sort of my point, too.  However, we are now in the situation of
having
all of our eggs in one basket and there are good reasons not to remain in
that
situation.  Do we ignore the problem and continue to use gasoline, thus
making
us more and more dependent on the sources of the same and probably
continuing
to drive up the price, or can we diversify our energy sources in such a way
as to preserve the supply of gasoline for a longer period of time and,
perhaps, 
even have a positive effect on the environment?  All I am saying is that all
the possibilities should be investigated, thus allowing us some flexibility
in our choices rather than just continuing on the path we are on while
ignoring reality.  I don't think that BMW and GM and the rest are entirely
stupid, so they must envision a scenario in which H2 can play a role.  Let's
give a little credit for their willingness to try the experiment.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 16 14:13:54 2008
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:13:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04C719BF@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <275250.97350.qm@web31703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I don't understand why the neclear option doesn't surface more often in the energy dialog. Technology has come a long long way since the last Nuc plant design and I don't hear a bunch of issues about the existing plants.

I'm also excited by the potential of Algea based bio-deisel fuel. That seems extremely promising.

- Stephen Waybright

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) <mark.rense at ge.com> wrote:

> From: Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) <mark.rense at ge.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 3:29 PM
> You are correct, it is not a smart thing to do from an
> energy balance
> point of view...today. However, if you had a large amount
> of cheap and
> clean electrical power from solar, wind or..dare I
> say...nuclear to
> convert, process and compress hydrogen, then using H2 as an
> energy
> transfer medium makes sense.

From cjcoffel at sonic.net  Mon Jun 16 14:17:03 2008
From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:17:03 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
References: <4856A6E1.8040407@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <000201c8cfed$f792a200$6401a8c0@pc1>

Just go watch 'Who killed the Electric Car". They've got 50,00 gas stations 
and they aren't going to let that business model die with electric cars. 
Chris

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/004825.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/





















----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tod Brown" <todbrown at roadrunner.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>; "William Lau" <mrlau at charter.net>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)


> "This is like saying something is stupid but let's do it anyway 'cause it
> makes us feel like we are doing something good.  It takes oil to cram the
> hydrogen in the bottle and it takes oil to process it to begin with and 
> that
> goes for just about all of the "new ideas". It even takes more oil to
> process and deliver than it replaces.  More than zero gain, it is 
> backwards.
> It is just that no one wants to admit or face it. Ostrichisms -- Bill --"
>
> Bill:
>
> I would agree that it does not make sense from the standpoint of energy, 
> and
> that was sort of my point, too.  However, we are now in the situation of 
> having
> all of our eggs in one basket and there are good reasons not to remain in 
> that
> situation.  Do we ignore the problem and continue to use gasoline, thus 
> making
> us more and more dependent on the sources of the same and probably 
> continuing
> to drive up the price, or can we diversify our energy sources in such a 
> way as to preserve the supply of gasoline for a longer period of time and, 
> perhaps,
> even have a positive effect on the environment?  All I am saying is that 
> all the possibilities should be investigated, thus allowing us some 
> flexibility in our choices rather than just continuing on the path we are 
> on while ignoring reality.  I don't think that BMW and GM and the rest are 
> entirely stupid, so they must envision a scenario in which H2 can play a 
> role.  Let's give a little credit for their willingness to try the 
> experiment.
>
> Tod
> B382002384LRXFE
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as cjcoffel at sonic.net
>
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From cjcoffel at sonic.net  Mon Jun 16 14:45:29 2008
From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:45:29 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Wine Country Classic
References: <d86d088a0806152317x583f0781s2aa30b4471acf043@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201c8cff1$f53e54f0$6401a8c0@pc1>

I haven't looked through my pictures yet. I didn't bring the video camera. 
My friend got some great shots with his professional set up. Here's his 
site.

http://russell.zenfolio.com/p982262950/


I went to this event and had the only Tiger. Showed it to Tony in Rohnert 
Park who just bought his neighbors Tiger for 3k.

http://www.americangraffiti.net/


Went to this event and brought two of my Tigers. Did the parade, and great 
to hear so many people say "Tiger" as you go by. Tony from Cloverdale showed 
up with the Funbeam so we had three Tigers. Great event.

http://www.peggysuescruise.com/

The Funbeam won a trophy last year but not this year. My buddy won first in 
his class. His car drives people nuts. Just look at the pictures and you can 
see why.


http://dons.zenfolio.com/p694946011/

Chris














----- Original Message ----- 
From: "michael king" <michael.s.king at gmail.com>
To: "tigers_United_forum" <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:17 PM
Subject: [Tigers] Wine Country Classic


>I was looking through the recent pics/reports on the wine country classic
> meet at the infeon raceway. They had lots of tigers listed, but all but 2
> were DNS or DNF. The Tom Sakai car seeming to be the flag flyer.. however 
> in
> this video go to 2:22 and you will see either practice or the race and the
> ex-SCF Tiger, yellow (ex shelby?) sakai tiger, fraser onester tiger and a
> red tiger with white HT running. I see the HSC Tiger was listed as a DNS 
> and
> does not appear.
>
> Has anyone got recent photos or reports on this? Why is the Tiger 
> community
> so lazzy in getting pics and videos of the cars racing up on onthe web?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSpqCvHbnxg&feature=related
>
> -- 
> Regards
>
> Michael King
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as cjcoffel at sonic.net
>
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>
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From CoolVT at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 16:43:06 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:43:06 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Interesting-Non Tiger
Message-ID: <d4f.2ce52e3b.3588467a@aol.com>

We'll probably never see this in the US.
_http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189_ 
(http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189) 



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Jun 16 17:08:58 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:08:58 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <275250.97350.qm@web31703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <275250.97350.qm@web31703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4856F28A.5080300@mayfco.com>

Folks, the demands on nuclear saftey are still paramount.  While 
accidents are few and far between, when they happen they can be really 
bad. So stewardship of safety cannot be surrendered to technological 
advances. Yet, it does not need to take 10 years for a design review or 
environmental impact statement either.  One of the main issues is what 
to do with the waste by streams. Yeah, there is tryin to be a Yucca Mt 
here ont he weapons range. But that was for 77000 metric tonnes of junk 
and that did not include the power reactor stuff. All of those water 
storage pools are being filled up and when full, then what?  And of 
course in today's environment, the storage facility must be secure to 
keep the bad guys from obtaining the junk for dirty bombs. In a sane 
world that would not be an issue, but today is not sane...

So nuclear has some issues still to overcome. Fusion may or may not make 
it to power production. And it is not a non waste producer, lol... Power 
comes from all those nuetrons being slowed down toheat water nd those do 
indeed cause some radioactivity to be imparted. Just not as severe as 
fission.  Please note also the Sandia Labs in Albequerque have actually 
gotten cold fusion to work, at least to the point of finding helkium by 
products produced from fusion reactions. So maybe somethin will 
eventually come thrpugh that portal.  But what we gonna do tomorrow? we 
will use alternative fuels that can be run in our existing vehicles. Bio 
diesel, alcohol, natural gass, and maybe some electrical systems will be 
used all in suppor tof each other. I don't think the use of petroleum 
will ever get to the op[oint where the gov say we cannot use it, it will 
just get so expensive that the common man cannot afford it. It will 
still be available for special needs just at a high price.

mayf
Stephen Waybright wrote:

>I don't understand why the neclear option doesn't surface more often in the energy dialog. Technology has come a long long way since the last Nuc plant design and I don't hear a bunch of issues about the existing plants.
>
>I'm also excited by the potential of Algea based bio-deisel fuel. That seems extremely promising.
>
>- Stephen Waybright
>
>--- On Mon, 6/16/08, Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) <mark.rense at ge.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>From: Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) <mark.rense at ge.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
>>To: tigers at autox.team.net
>>Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 3:29 PM
>>You are correct, it is not a smart thing to do from an
>>energy balance
>>point of view...today. However, if you had a large amount
>>of cheap and
>>clean electrical power from solar, wind or..dare I
>>say...nuclear to
>>convert, process and compress hydrogen, then using H2 as an
>>energy
>>transfer medium makes sense.
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com
>
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>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
>http://www.team.net/archive

From shutchin at netjets.com  Mon Jun 16 17:17:50 2008
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:17:50 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7BB@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

We could all use this as an excuse to buy a Tesla.

Slap a few solar panels on the roof of the garage and drive for free. 

Tell the bride it's all in the name of saving money and preserving the environment. 

You know if it were only 75,000........



Scott Hutchinson
Director of Operations
Netjets Large Aircraft

Office 860.292.1191
Mobile 843.290.2805

* ********
This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error,  please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message.

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 17:26:48 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:26:48 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <cc7.3479920e.358850b8@aol.com>

Then why does alu. produce more HP with the same radiator system...duh, (We 
have several heat dissipating coating that when applied to iron heads also 
allow you to run higher compression with iron heads) because you can run higher 
compression ratios with pump gas because of more efficient heat transfer. 
Nothing magic about alum!
     
So are you getting 381 HP from your 260? I doubt it! To be exact, with the 
configuration of this engine we can run pump gas and extract 50 +HP per each one 
point of compression. 

If you watch drag boats, tractor pulls and drag racing you can see some of my 
builders motors, some producing 1300Hp per cylinder. Check his references, 
Gurney, Foyt, Shelby, Dan Olson and several dozen more. I'll put our technical 
info at Caps Bright Hot Coatings and 60 years of experience in developing Ford 
high performance up against faulty reasoning anytime.

Want to play? Get your pink slip out?

Don't mean this to sound rude, it's not meant to be any different from the 
tone set in your e-mail.


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL 
Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 17:27:09 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:27:09 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <cb8.30001acc.358850cd@aol.com>

So


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 17:37:54 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:37:54 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <d54.3206b56b.35885352@aol.com>

Good comments. I can supply phone numbers so you can talk to Mr. Begosian. 
Dr. were not talking, in this case about high tech (which you are well 
qualified), were talking bolt on magic alum heads getting a 300% increase in HP with no 
cost, no rise in compression ratio...... LOL. The plain truth is a decrease 
in heat transfer rates of alum from the combustion chamber reduces the effect 
compression ratio that can be run with pump gas (91 octane or less) without 
destructive detonation.

Sean


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 17:49:21 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:49:21 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
Message-ID: <bcd.2d82370c.35885601@aol.com>

Essentially correct. Too everyone, for the last time I, AM NOT TALKING ABOUT 
THE DOWNSIDE OF ALUM HEADS BUT THE DETRIMENTAL EFFECTS OF PAINTING AND 
POLISHING ALUM HEADS. If you are running higher compression ratios you need Alum 
heads and any degradation to heat transfer effects the performance and durability 
of an alum headed engine! In some cases the increase in retained heat can 
cause failure due to heat retained and lose of Hp. 

We have a tell all in our Cermakrome line that causes the coated header to go 
dull and gray at sustained heat exceeding 1350 degrees F (melting point of 
the alum used in the cermaic/metallic coating). If it's dull and gray the engine 
is running super rich or very lean...all effecting performance of the 
product. 

Moonstone


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 17:50:06 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:50:06 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <be6.2a66f025.3588562e@aol.com>

Got that right

Moonstone


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 17:51:07 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:51:07 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <bf5.35eddc24.3588566b@aol.com>

I'll try, times an enemy right now.

Sean


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 17:54:14 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:54:14 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <ce8.3447fc43.35885726@aol.com>

With higher compression ratio this does become an issue. Also the type of 
paint used does matter. Plain black spray paint is not used on radiators because 
it does not work, radiator paint is a special product as is the paint you 
refer to in your examples.

Moonstone


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 18:02:16 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:02:16 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
Message-ID: <c84.2bca77bd.35885908@aol.com>

At ratios approaching 10.5 to 1 and the marginal nature of the Tiger cooling 
system it can be a factor. If you spend 3 times as much for alum heads, why 
negate or downgrade their primary advantage?

Moonstone


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Mon Jun 16 18:01:59 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:01:59 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
In-Reply-To: <bcd.2d82370c.35885601@aol.com>
References: <bcd.2d82370c.35885601@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806161701x779d119ag697b8ef15599203f@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry to go slightly sideways on this..

Ok.. I am not going to polish my alloy heads and never intended to... but is
it a bad thing to polish the intake, this is something i was thinking about
doing.'

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From mrlau at charter.net  Mon Jun 16 18:03:39 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:03:39 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]  BMW gas (not gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <275250.97350.qm@web31703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080617000436.ECCO3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

I'm with you.  If the French can do it, we can do it easily. Use coal and
nuclear to make electricity for electric cars to work in the city.
Eventually they will get good enough to go long distances. Meanwhile, drill
for our own oil. -- Bill --

I don't understand why the neclear option doesn't surface more often in the
energy dialog. Technology has come a long long way since the last Nuc plant
design and I don't hear a bunch of issues about the existing plants.

I'm also excited by the potential of Algea based bio-deisel fuel. That seems
extremely promising.

- Stephen Waybright

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Jun 16 18:04:25 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:04:25 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <d54.3206b56b.35885352@aol.com>
References: <d54.3206b56b.35885352@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4856FF89.2060104@mayfco.com>

yep, alloy reduces the thermal efficiency.  And as you say less heat 
means a lower air pressure in the chamber. Now, you cangain some 
significant hp by switching from iron to aluminum but without a zillion 
other mods, the hp will never be significantly high. Ie as youknow, you 
gotta have the bottom end parts, the rods, pistons, cam, valve trail etc 
to have a good reliable high power motor. I think reliablity is an 
inverse square law lol...seems to be for me any way.

I now finally have the rce car off the jack stands ready to move outside 
for some more salt wash down then wasing with a salt killer. Then some 
primer paint ans some wax... then I can fire it up. Yeah! Maybe by next 
week.

My orange tiger is still in pieces. Have all parts tostart reassembly 
except the hardtop shell. That should be available Weds. The House of 
Kolors Shimmerin Sunset Orange pearl paint is very nice.  I also 
purchases dome merkur wheels from Brent edinger and had them repainted 
in the color he had them but added a small pin stripe around the rim in 
a flat orange paint as well.  They are going to look awesome!. I am 
considering having my Tiger valve covers powder coated in a similar 
orange scheme as well. Right now, I have to cut the grass, lol... when 
the new lawn mower arrives... I have killed the yardman once again. 
Motor is fine dbut the drive system is kaput. Even with a new belt....

more on the saga of the cars later...

Should any of you who are returning from TU pass within shouting 
distance, please drop in!. Shop is a mess but I like company and the 
beer is cold...

mayf
Drmoonstone at aol.com wrote:

> Good comments. I can supply phone numbers so you can talk to Mr. 
> Begosian. Dr. were not talking, in this case about high tech (which 
> you are well qualified), were talking bolt on magic alum heads getting 
> a 300% increase in HP with no cost, no rise in compression ratio...... 
> LOL. The plain truth is a decrease in heat transfer rates of alum from 
> the combustion chamber reduces the effect compression ratio that can 
> be run with pump gas (91 octane or less) without destructive detonation.
>
> Sean
>
>
> **************
> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used 
> cars.
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Jun 16 18:10:51 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:10:51 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
In-Reply-To: <bcd.2d82370c.35885601@aol.com>
References: <bcd.2d82370c.35885601@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4857010B.5080200@mayfco.com>

Yep, again. Shouldn't paint the alloy heads. Unless it is with a special 
paint designed to do the job. And the coating probably would need to be 
very thin. Ditto for polishing. Smooth shiney surfaces do not have the 
surface area for proper conduction and convection.  On high compression 
motors, then the heads may mean the difference between working reliably 
and not working well at any efficiency. Detonation is likely to result 
with high compression reworked iron heads. The you have to run high 
octane fuel and dial back the timing to prevent it..

Sean, what is gonna happen to the black turbo headers? Anything for me 
to be on the lookout for?

Folks, Sean, and his brother in law, coated my headers for the race 
beamer and they look wonderful. Trust what Sean tells you in this 
regards. They do great work!

mayf
Drmoonstone at aol.com wrote:

>Essentially correct. Too everyone, for the last time I, AM NOT TALKING ABOUT 
>THE DOWNSIDE OF ALUM HEADS BUT THE DETRIMENTAL EFFECTS OF PAINTING AND 
>POLISHING ALUM HEADS. If you are running higher compression ratios you need Alum 
>heads and any degradation to heat transfer effects the performance and durability 
>of an alum headed engine! In some cases the increase in retained heat can 
>cause failure due to heat retained and lose of Hp. 
>
>We have a tell all in our Cermakrome line that causes the coated header to go 
>dull and gray at sustained heat exceeding 1350 degrees F (melting point of 
>the alum used in the cermaic/metallic coating). If it's dull and gray the engine 
>is running super rich or very lean...all effecting performance of the 
>product. 
>
>Moonstone

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 18:11:33 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:11:33 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
Message-ID: <cbb.23ab0e1e.35885b35@aol.com>

A coating of mcs on the under side of the manifold will reduce   air/fuel 
mixture temp. So polish the top, coat the bottom. 

Sideline here, if heat tranfer is not a significant issue then why the Air 
Gap manfolds. Heat transfer goes both ways.

Moonstone


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From shutchin at netjets.com  Mon Jun 16 18:11:52 2008
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:11:52 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7BC@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

The only inverse law is the performance/fun to bank account balance law. 

Works for pretty much everything. 



Scott Hutchinson
Director of Operations
Netjets Large Aircraft

Office 860.292.1191
Mobile 843.290.2805

* ********
This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error,  please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message.

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 18:16:11 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:16:11 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
Message-ID: <d55.31e2194e.35885c4b@aol.com>

No problem in this case the black is just as efficent as the other "colors" 
and retain the same advantages.

Sean   the "deck ape"


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL 
Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 18:17:59 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:17:59 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
Message-ID: <d4b.300d9d7f.35885cb7@aol.com>

So true, cubic inches or cubic bucks...either way bucks are the limiting 
factor for most.

Moonstone


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Jun 16 18:29:03 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:29:03 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] engine ancillaries
In-Reply-To: <d4b.300d9d7f.35885cb7@aol.com>
References: <d4b.300d9d7f.35885cb7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4857054F.7050302@mayfco.com>

Drmoonstone at aol.com wrote:

> So true, cubic inches or cubic bucks...either way bucks are the 
> limiting factor for most.
>
> Moonstone
>
>
> **************
> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used 
> cars.
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

yup, remember the old adage? Speed costs, how fast you wanna go?

mayf

From todbrown at roadrunner.com  Mon Jun 16 18:30:04 2008
From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:30:04 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Nuclear Energy Interest
Message-ID: <4857058C.3030303@roadrunner.com>

Stephen:

Listen to this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12801015

Using nuclear to generate electricity which then, in turn, can be used 
to produce hydrogen or charge batteries is a way of avoiding the use of 
fossil fuels for transportation.  Yeah, I know it is expensive and that 
there is a conspiracy against it and that there is the waste issue, but 
someone IS paying attention.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From milward at roadrunner.com  Mon Jun 16 18:30:50 2008
From: milward at roadrunner.com (Bill Rogers Motorsport Memories)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:30:50 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Cooling - Thinking outside the Box
Message-ID: <80BCCE46FE974AE49C07A74272973467@BillPC>

We have discussed cooling ad nauseum on these pages, Tigers United, club pages
and in shop notes and newsletters everywhere. The solutions are usually better
water pumps, better radiators, blocking the horn holes and under the rad,
auxilliary fans etc., all items associated with the water cooling system.

Here are some other ideas that come to mind that may or may not have been
discussed before.

My car has the rectangular bodywork opening in front of the radiator cut down
at the bottom by about 1" so that little of the radiator face is blocked - a
looks like a crude 1960's mod. or is that stock Tiger?

Oil cools the engine too, so a windage tray and a larger (7 Qt) oil pan with
cooling fins would help too.

Those of you with interest in the works rally cars may have Marcus Chambers'
book "Works Wonders", and the wonderful new Graham Rood book "The Works
Tigers". In both of those books Des O'Dell is quoted as fixing the Tiger
cooling problems by "taking a pipe from the header tank to the bottom hose"
similar to Aston Martin and Mercedes. Has anyone tried this?

The other obvious item you can see from the works cars are the holes in the
side of the fenders to exhaust hot air from the engine bay and encourage
proper flow through the radiator. Not many of us want to do this, so less well
known was the practice of propping the hood open a little at the rear. They
did this by adding some hard foam blocks in front of the driver and co-driver
at the rear of the hood land with gaps at the center and at the edges. I
suspect this was to avoid spraying the windshield with oil and coolant. They
used external latches to hold it down but hood pins would work or perhaps even
a longer "stock" bonnet latch pin for those averse to cutting holes.

Bill Rogers
B9472703

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Mon Jun 16 18:51:31 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:51:31 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Heads--a downside?
In-Reply-To: <d86d088a0806161701x779d119ag697b8ef15599203f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcd.2d82370c.35885601@aol.com>
	<d86d088a0806161701x779d119ag697b8ef15599203f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48570A93.4040307@SoCal.rr.com>

Michael,

Now this I have done, with my 1952 MG-TD, in 1952.  There was a shop in 
Hollywood called "Racer Ray Brown", back then, who not only made seat 
belts for cars, but did head work as well.  He eliminated the cast post 
between intake pairs, and had the head bolt in those two places 
accessible through the port by removing the intake manifold.  He 
installed larger Mk II valves, polished the intake ports, matched the 
intake and exhaust manifolds to the ports, and "tuned" the engine.  The 
only way to quantify the results is to go from the middle of the pack to 
best time of day at the drag strips.  I believe that was 72.4 MPH.  Near 
top speed! :-)

And they weren't even alloy.

Yes, we did have chassis dyno's in the day, but I was a student and the 
costs were just too much ($50). The new car was only $1350, new.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



michael king wrote:
> Sorry to go slightly sideways on this..
>
> Ok.. I am not going to polish my alloy heads and never intended to... but is
> it a bad thing to polish the intake, this is something i was thinking about
> doing.'

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun 16 18:54:41 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Doane's Horses
Message-ID: <766027.41869.qm@web81508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"So are you getting 381 HP from your 260? I doubt it!"
   
   
  I read somewhere that  Doane Spencer got 349 HP from his 260 cu in engine installed in the HSC racer.  Just think what he could get using modern heads, cam, manifold, distributor, etc.  Maybe 400 HP or more?
   
   
                Jeff

From modtiger at comcast.net  Mon Jun 16 19:34:51 2008
From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:34:51 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nuclear Energy Interest
In-Reply-To: <4857058C.3030303@roadrunner.com>
References: <4857058C.3030303@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080616180305.057f7618@comcast.net>

At 05:30 PM 6/16/2008, you wrote:
>http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12801015
>
>Using nuclear to generate electricity which then, in turn, can be used
>to produce hydrogen or charge batteries is a way of avoiding the use of
>fossil fuels for transportation.  Yeah, I know it is expensive and that
>there is a conspiracy against it and that there is the waste issue, but
>someone IS paying attention.
>Tod

Once upon a time, in my former life, I was a Nuke Engineer with 
GE.  Some of the work I was involved with pertained to a process know 
as Plutonium Recycle.  This was a process that disassembled spent 
(used) nuclear fuel bundles and reclaimed  the remaining fissile 
uranium and the plutonium that was created during the period the fuel 
was in the power reactor making steam and eventually 
electricity.  This process was well beyond theory and plants were 
designed and built to accomplish this task.  The process reduced the 
volume of the high level nuclear waste and as a byproduct, was able 
to separate out the reusable nuclear fuel known as mixed oxide, 
uranium and plutonium.  It was especially fortuitous because the 
energy in the recovered fuel had more energy remaining than the 
original fuel it was recovered from, a net gain in available energy.

Alas, the people of the US of A elected a Peanut Farmer, ex-Nuclear 
Navy Engineer to be President.  He was staunchly against this Program 
basing his decisions on the "potential" risk of the dreaded 
Plutonium.  So the whole US commercial industry and DOE research 
plans were shelved and essentially forgotten.  Only France went ahead 
with significant research on this and high level radioactive waste 
processing.  The nuclear business environment was so toxic from my 
perspective that I walked away from the industry mid career and 
opened my own non nuclear business.

Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
www.tigerengineering.net

From fastsage at cox.net  Mon Jun 16 19:49:02 2008
From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:49:02 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nuclear Energy Interest
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080616180305.057f7618@comcast.net>
References: <4857058C.3030303@roadrunner.com>
	<7.0.0.16.2.20080616180305.057f7618@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4857180E.2050605@cox.net>

Tom Hall wrote:
> Once upon a time, in my former life, I was a Nuke Engineer.......
>   
Tom:
I'd better never disagree with anything you ever say! I don't want you 
nuking my Tiger!

Steve Sage




E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
Database version: 5.10050e
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/

From rab65tiger at aol.com  Mon Jun 16 20:50:07 2008
From: rab65tiger at aol.com (rab65tiger at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:50:07 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] aluminum heads
Message-ID: <8CA9E3BFC604DA7-14C4-26CB@webmail-ne19.sysops.aol.com>

My reading indicates cast iron heads may be superior for performance, IF flow numbers are the same, and some real world factors like hardened valve seats for unleaded gas are included, higher octane gas, the cast iron may be superior to aluminum heads.? The recent explosion of available aluminum heads with newer designs, typically out flow stock vintage cast iron heads, and the included hardened valve seats are a bonus.? The cost of port and polish and adding hardened valve seats to cast iron heads, combined with some weight savings, and maybe the possibility of running a little more compression without race gas seems to make aluminum heads an easy and cost effective solution. The after market is probably swamped with aluminum heads do to a lower cost to design, manufacture and machine compared to cast iron.? One caveat on Tigers, many aluminum heads are dimensionally different than OEM castings, making firewall clearance and header/ exhaust interface a concern.? Some aluminum heads utilize stock dimensions and exhaust port locations, some alter these dimensions.? Some headers offer different size tubes, that may align better with the exhaust ports on non stock heads.

Randie

From Carmods at aol.com  Tue Jun 17 07:03:08 2008
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:03:08 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
Message-ID: <bc5.26e69ebe.3589100c@aol.com>

mrlau at charter.net writes:
This is like saying something is stupid but  let's do it anyway 'cause it
makes us feel like we are doing something  good.  It takes oil to cram the
hydrogen in the bottle and it takes oil  to process it to begin with and that
goes for just about all of the "new  ideas". It even takes more oil to
process and deliver than it replaces.   More than zero gain, it is backwards.
It is just that no one wants to admit  or face it. Ostrich isms -- Bill --

Right on Bill!  








**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Tue Jun 17 09:08:57 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:08:57 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Interesting-Non Tiger
In-Reply-To: <d4f.2ce52e3b.3588467a@aol.com>
References: <d4f.2ce52e3b.3588467a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473306804514@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

Very interesting Mark....I didn't know that the focus and fusion were already
built out of country...mexico and argentina? Never would have guessed. Very
hi-tech plant, certainly a different approach to putting a car together, at
least from several years ago.

....so the UAW doesn't support this " type of integration..." what does that
mean? Somebody educate me....

Cullen







"We'll probably never see this in the US."

From Carmods at aol.com  Tue Jun 17 07:13:01 2008
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:13:01 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
Message-ID: <cf5.2f2353ff.3589125d@aol.com>

todbrown at roadrunner.com writes:

I don't  think that BMW and GM and the rest are entirely stupid, so they must 
envision  a scenario in which H2 can play a role.  Let's give a little credit 
for  their willingness to try the experiment.



When I was a youngster I lived near the Crow Indian Reservation in Montana.  
During a dry spell the Indians would do their rain dance for a week or so.  It 
made them feel good, the rain gods felt good, and eventually it rained.  One 
good thing though, it didn't cost the rest of us anything.
 
John Logan



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From todbrown at roadrunner.com  Tue Jun 17 07:38:43 2008
From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:38:43 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
Message-ID: <4857BE63.40805@roadrunner.com>

John Logan writes:

"When I was a youngster I lived near the Crow Indian Reservation in 
Montana.  During a dry spell the Indians would do their rain dance for a 
week or so. It made them feel good, the rain gods felt good, and 
eventually it rained. One good thing though, it didn't cost the rest of 
us anything."

Maybe the Crows were on to something!  Closed minds rarely discover 
anything worthwhile.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From sralsten at ca.rr.com  Tue Jun 17 10:13:03 2008
From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:13:03 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?
Message-ID: <19778253.319721213719183477.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web02-z02>

Yes, I know it must get easier with experience and I know I am certainly the new kid around here so what right do I have to suggest any changes. BUT....
I have a hard time following some of these conversations. Either the same longish original message gets repeated over and over and the brief answer to it gets lost or  sometimes (Drmoonstone) leaves it out completely and an answer appears that is fairly difficult (for me at least) to connect to a question. Either way you go it seems difficult.

Has this group ever used a regular message board ? They are much easier to follow and your replies become instantly available for the public to read. Subjects stay seperate rather than being intermingled  (heads, BMW, BMW, heads, heads, heads,Subway, etc) There is an existing Britishcarforum that I discovered that has a seperate Sunbeam forum that is rarely used by anyone. I have some experience
with creating a discussion board on a non car topic that is really pretty cheap to do and can allow for picture files to be uploaded and displayed with posts.

Steve

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Tue Jun 17 10:02:20 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:02:20 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F08C@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Hi Steve,
There are other online Tiger communities, and quite a few people
participate in more than one. Go visit www.teae.org and check out their
online forum - it's basically what you're describing.

I find that, while the bulletin-board style of forum preserves each
topic in its own chronological space, it also requires you to
individually page through all the subjects to catch up on what's going
on, and if there's any significant traffic volume at all, that becomes a
big time sink, and you may miss out on threads in subjects whose
sub-forums you don't often visit. The mailing list operates in exactly
the opposite way: Messages get pushed to you, and you see all the
traffic. Some mail readers can do threading for you; they'll sort stuff
by at least the subject, and if possible index by who replied to what.

When tigersunited.com was first brought online, it also featured a
bulletin board type forum, but it never attracted enough people to gain
critical mass (most of the visitors to tu.com were already subscribers
to this mailing list), and so it languished and was eventually
mothballed. There was just no reason to create yet another parallel
information exchange.

Cheers,
Theo



-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of sralsten at ca.rr.com
Sent: June 17, 2008 10:13 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?

Yes, I know it must get easier with experience and I know I am certainly
the new kid around here so what right do I have to suggest any changes.
BUT....
I have a hard time following some of these conversations. Either the
same longish original message gets repeated over and over and the brief
answer to it gets lost or  sometimes (Drmoonstone) leaves it out
completely and an answer appears that is fairly difficult (for me at
least) to connect to a question. Either way you go it seems difficult.

Has this group ever used a regular message board ? They are much easier
to follow and your replies become instantly available for the public to
read. Subjects stay seperate rather than being intermingled  (heads,
BMW, BMW, heads, heads, heads,Subway, etc) There is an existing
Britishcarforum that I discovered that has a seperate Sunbeam forum that
is rarely used by anyone. I have some experience with creating a
discussion board on a non car topic that is really pretty cheap to do
and can allow for picture files to be uploaded and displayed with posts.

Steve
You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Tue Jun 17 10:21:28 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:21:28 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F08D@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

My reply may have unintentionally come off a little negative on the BB
type forums. I participate in at least three of them, including TEAE's,
and I recognize the value they bring, and also that it's a lot of work
for the admins. It's just unfortunate that you can't easily take either
system (bulletin board and mailing list) and allow it to be presented in
either format. You can set the bulletin board systems to notify you by
email whenever a new message comes in, but the current implementations
don't let you fire off a reply within the email application's context
and have it posted appropriately. A 'new' thread couldn't be started
within the email context unless you could somehow instruct the server in
where that thread should be archived.

You can search the mailing list thread archive through the team.net
webserver, and it presents things in a threaded form:
http://www.team.net/mharc/archives/html/tigers/.  You can click through
the email address hyperlinks and it will fire up your email application,
but it doesn't include the subject line... That could be a cool addition
to the archive searching functionality but it's (again) extra work for
the admins and other volunteers to provide it.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Smit, Theo
Sent: June 17, 2008 10:02 AM
To: sralsten at ca.rr.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?

Hi Steve,
There are other online Tiger communities, and quite a few people
participate in more than one. Go visit www.teae.org and check out their
online forum - it's basically what you're describing.

From sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net  Tue Jun 17 10:39:49 2008
From: sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net (David Sosna)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:39:49 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Doane's Horses
In-Reply-To: <766027.41869.qm@web81508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <766027.41869.qm@web81508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4857E8D5.7010705@cox.net>

Hi Jeff:
The following quote: "Could you tell the difference between a 260 and a 
289 just by opening the hood and looking at the engine?  Neither could 
the tech inspectors!" was attributed to Doane--I just wish I could 
remember where I saw it.  Anyway, from what I gather, Doane was supposed 
to have swapped in a 289 in one of the racing cars (don't know if it was 
the HSC car) and nobody caught wise :-)

Best Regards
David Sosna

Jeffrey Nichols wrote:
> "So are you getting 381 HP from your 260? I doubt it!"
>    
>    
>   I read somewhere that  Doane Spencer got 349 HP from his 260 cu in engine installed in the HSC racer.  Just think what he could get using modern heads, cam, manifold, distributor, etc.  Maybe 400 HP or more?
>    
>    
>                 Jeff
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net  Tue Jun 17 10:56:20 2008
From: sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net (David Sosna)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:56:20 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?
In-Reply-To: <19778253.319721213719183477.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web02-z02>
References: <19778253.319721213719183477.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web02-z02>
Message-ID: <4857ECB4.40007@cox.net>

Hi Steve:
Actually, your point is well taken. After I read this e-mail (which 
logged in at 9:13 a.m.), Theo's first and second replies appeared 
simultaneously, logged in at 9:02 a.m. and 9:13 a.m. (??) Since I have 
my e-mails organized by date that can be confusing, since your initial 
e-mail is sandwiched in between his responses.  Perhaps I'll try 
organizing by Subject instead, but Sean--I say this with the greatest of 
respect--I frequently do have a tough time figuring out what you're 
e-mailing about and would appreciate it if you'd include a snippet of 
whatever you're responding to.

Best Regards
David Sosna

sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote:
> Yes, I know it must get easier with experience and I know I am certainly the new kid around here so what right do I have to suggest any changes. BUT....
> I have a hard time following some of these conversations. Either the same longish original message gets repeated over and over and the brief answer to it gets lost or  sometimes (Drmoonstone) leaves it out completely and an answer appears that is fairly difficult (for me at least) to connect to a question. Either way you go it seems difficult.
>
>
>
> Steve

From wsteinman at pogolaw.com  Tue Jun 17 13:03:44 2008
From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:03:44 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?
In-Reply-To: <4857ECB4.40007@cox.net>
References: <19778253.319721213719183477.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web02-z02>
	<4857ECB4.40007@cox.net>
Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B21E373F@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET>

www.britishcarforum.com

Very active for some marques -- especially Triumph -- but a bit light on
Sunbeams, though this would be corrected if more of us started using.


Bill S.
2005 Lotus Elise
1968 Triumph TR-250
1968 MGC Tourer
1966 Austin Healey 3000 Mk III
1965 Sunbeam Tiger
1959 Austin Healey 3000

Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows...



NOTICE: This communication and its attachments have been sent to you from
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Thank you.

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Tue Jun 17 15:22:18 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:22:18 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?
In-Reply-To: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B21E373F@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET>
References: <19778253.319721213719183477.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web02-z02>
	<4857ECB4.40007@cox.net>
	<82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B21E373F@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068045DC@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

That's funny....if we would start using it more...I don't know about everyone
on the list, but I contribute occasionally, and read the witty banter that
everyone else donates, all while " on the clock" at my work. Just like now I'm
looking over my shoulder to see when my boss will check on my progress and
fine me slacking away. If I had another outlet of a place to talk about cars
of any make, surely I would lose my job.

;)

1452



www.britishcarforum.com


Very active for some marques -- especially Triumph -- but a bit light on
Sunbeams, though this would be corrected if more of us started using.

From mrlau at charter.net  Tue Jun 17 14:42:36 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:42:36 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]  BMW gas (not gasoline)
In-Reply-To: <4857BE63.40805@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <20080617204333.ZKLF3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

Maybe you two guys could do an oil dance for us.  Perhaps your open minds
will discover something. Something along the order of a dance won't work any
better than a hydrogen powered car. -- Bill --


John Logan writes:

"When I was a youngster I lived near the Crow Indian Reservation in 
Montana.  During a dry spell the Indians would do their rain dance for a 
week or so. It made them feel good, the rain gods felt good, and 
eventually it rained. One good thing though, it didn't cost the rest of 
us anything."

Maybe the Crows were on to something!  Closed minds rarely discover 
anything worthwhile.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From bobdixon at frii.com  Tue Jun 17 14:44:05 2008
From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:44:05 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Doane's Horses
In-Reply-To: <4857E8D5.7010705@cox.net>
References: <766027.41869.qm@web81508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4857E8D5.7010705@cox.net>
Message-ID: <34369.192.55.12.36.1213735445.squirrel@users.frii.com>

I believe he sleeved a 289 to 260.  Perfectly legal.

From arado7 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun 17 15:38:46 2008
From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:38:46 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
References: <20080617204333.ZKLF3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <000701c8d0c2$863740e0$6401a8c0@GMI>

I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of 
cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course there is 
the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant, Bond and Issetta(BMW) cabin 
scooters...This from a guy with a 2.3 liter motorcycle....Gary  B9472283
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Lau" <mrlau at charter.net>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)


> Maybe you two guys could do an oil dance for us.  Perhaps your open minds
> will discover something. Something along the order of a dance won't work 
> any
> better than a hydrogen powered car. -- Bill --
>
>
> John Logan writes:
>
> "When I was a youngster I lived near the Crow Indian Reservation in
> Montana.  During a dry spell the Indians would do their rain dance for a
> week or so. It made them feel good, the rain gods felt good, and
> eventually it rained. One good thing though, it didn't cost the rest of
> us anything."
>
> Maybe the Crows were on to something!  Closed minds rarely discover
> anything worthwhile.
>
> Tod
> B382002384LRXFE
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as arado7 at sbcglobal.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From CoolVT at aol.com  Tue Jun 17 15:49:34 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:49:34 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
Message-ID: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>

I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of  
cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course there is  
the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant...
 
Well, if that's the answer we are doing our part with our 2,500 lb.  cars. 
Remove one gas tank and lose 50lb. Aluminum heads..50lb. Aluminum intake  20 lb. 
Headers replacing cast iron ex. manifolds..10 lb.  Now we're down to  2,370 
lb.  What else can go?
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Tue Jun 17 16:06:10 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:06:10 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Control of Energy
In-Reply-To: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <48583552.7080502@SoCal.rr.com>

Mark,

What else can go?  The availability of gasoline.  But don't fret too 
much, the oil industry has more clout than any others, and they also own 
the major "gasohol", and other energy sources they can use to control 
"ENERGY".  Remember the old days when "What's Good for GM is Good for 
the Country" resulted in them buying all the electric trolleys, and 
buses in L.A. and replacing them with Gasoline vehicles?

"Cheer up, things could get worse!"  So I did, and sure enough, things 
did get worse."

Hey, I remember when the "AUDI" was a small, three cylinder, two cycle, 
economy car. And ugly, as well.  Then again there was the Messerschmidt !

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
> I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of  
> cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course there is  
> the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant...
>  
> Well, if that's the answer we are doing our part with our 2,500 lb.  cars. 
> Remove one gas tank and lose 50lb. Aluminum heads..50lb. Aluminum intake  20 lb. 
> Headers replacing cast iron ex. manifolds..10 lb.  Now we're down to  2,370 
> lb.  What else can go?
> M

From mrlau at charter.net  Tue Jun 17 16:15:06 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:15:06 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]  (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20080617221603.DYHE4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of  
cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course there is

the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant...
 
Well, if that's the answer we are doing our part with our 2,500 lb.  cars. 
Remove one gas tank and lose 50lb. Aluminum heads..50lb. Aluminum intake  20
lb. 
Headers replacing cast iron ex. manifolds..10 lb.  Now we're down to  2,370 
lb.  What else can go?
M

I guess ice cream and chocolate. -- Bill --

From jteepen at usatoday.com  Tue Jun 17 16:17:36 2008
From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:17:36 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Control of Energy
In-Reply-To: <48583552.7080502@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230F2DD6C@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>

My dad had a DKW (pre-Audi)in the late 50's/early 60's.  I believe it was a 3
cylinder two stroke, but am unsure.  He seems to have really enjoyed that car
as it is one of the few he ever talks about.  I have never been able to find
any pictures of his, but have seen some photos of what they looked like.  I
wonder if there are any remaining here in the U.S.  I have also never been
able to find any pictures of his Alpine either, darn it.

Jere

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve
Laifman
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:06 PM
To: CoolVT at aol.com; Tiger's Den
Subject: [Tigers] Control of Energy

Mark,

What else can go?  The availability of gasoline.  But don't fret too much, the
oil industry has more clout than any others, and they also own the major
"gasohol", and other energy sources they can use to control "ENERGY".
Remember the old days when "What's Good for GM is Good for the Country"
resulted in them buying all the electric trolleys, and buses in L.A. and
replacing them with Gasoline vehicles?

"Cheer up, things could get worse!"  So I did, and sure enough, things did get
worse."

Hey, I remember when the "AUDI" was a small, three cylinder, two cycle,
economy car. And ugly, as well.  Then again there was the Messerschmidt !

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
> I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of
> cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course
> there is the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant...
>
> Well, if that's the answer we are doing our part with our 2,500 lb.  cars.
> Remove one gas tank and lose 50lb. Aluminum heads..50lb. Aluminum intake  20
lb.
> Headers replacing cast iron ex. manifolds..10 lb.  Now we're down to
> 2,370 lb.  What else can go?

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Tue Jun 17 16:25:22 2008
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:25:22 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>

Downsizing may be forth coming for sure. But I dare you, no double dare 
you to jump into the Messerschmitt, BMW Isetta,  Tata Nano and driv eit 
from here to Abile Texas in under 18 hours. I suspect that the number of 
gas stops would be wildly fun. Europeans, Brit, Japanese, Indians, all 
liv ein societies where they only go a m ile either before they forget 
where they were going becaus eof traffic problems, or traffic is so 
snarled they cannot move. Small cars in those places meam more trapped 
in traffic, lol. Do all those little bitty cars have air conditioning? 
Out here in the west it takes a lot of air conditioning. Lots.  So I am 
with those who want to make our LBC lighter for around town, but leave 
my go to town cars alone, lol... Oh, I did th etexas thingy last week, 
in my 2005 Towncar, averaging nearly 70  mph and driving 80 most of the 
way. And got nearly 27 mph doing it in style and comfort and safety. 
Will a Tata Nano even go that fast?

mayf, hot outside today around 106 or more...


CoolVT at aol.com wrote:

>I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of  
>cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course there is  
>the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant...
> 
>Well, if that's the answer we are doing our part with our 2,500 lb.  cars. 
>Remove one gas tank and lose 50lb. Aluminum heads..50lb. Aluminum intake  20 lb. 
>Headers replacing cast iron ex. manifolds..10 lb.  Now we're down to  2,370 
>lb.  What else can go?
>M

From marcsmall at comcast.net  Tue Jun 17 16:24:33 2008
From: marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:24:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Control of Energy
In-Reply-To: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230F2DD6C@ENT-MOCEXMB03.u
	s.ad.gannett.com>
References: <48583552.7080502@SoCal.rr.com>
	<9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230F2DD6C@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
Message-ID: <20080617222813.ED69C18786C@autox.team.net>

At 06:17 PM 6/17/2008, Teepen, Jere wrote:
 >My dad had a DKW (pre-Audi)in the late 50's/early 60's.  I believe it was a
3
 >cylinder two stroke, but am unsure.  He seems to have really enjoyed that
car
 >as it is one of the few he ever talks about.  I have never been able to
find
 >any pictures of his, but have seen some photos of what they looked like.  I
 >wonder if there are any remaining here in the U.S.  I have also never been
 >able to find any pictures of his Alpine either, darn it.

I blush to admit this, but part of my sinful
youth was spent as an Episcopal Cathedral
Choirboy in Pittsburgh in the 1960's.  One of the
Choir Mothers had a DKW.  We once got nine
choirboys into it, and I doubt if that record has ever been beaten.

The history of Auto Union is fascinating and has
been far more successful than that of the other
Weimar-forced corporate merger of 1926, the Zeiss
Ikon camera concern.  Both were mergers of four
companies -- note the four circles in the Audi logo?

Marc


msmall at aya.yale.edu
Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir!

From jteepen at usatoday.com  Tue Jun 17 17:20:52 2008
From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:20:52 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Control of Energy
In-Reply-To: <20080617221932.DAFEAFF8CC@usat-vocmail2.usatoday.com>
Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230F2DDE2@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>

Audi, Horch, DKW, and Wanderer?

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc James Small [mailto:marcsmall at comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:25 PM
To: Teepen, Jere; Steve Laifman; CoolVT at aol.com; Tiger's Den
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Control of Energy

At 06:17 PM 6/17/2008, Teepen, Jere wrote:
 >My dad had a DKW (pre-Audi)in the late 50's/early 60's.  I believe it was a
3  >cylinder two stroke, but am unsure.  He seems to have really enjoyed that
car  >as it is one of the few he ever talks about.  I have never been able to
find  >any pictures of his, but have seen some photos of what they looked
like.  I  >wonder if there are any remaining here in the U.S.  I have also
never been  >able to find any pictures of his Alpine either, darn it.

I blush to admit this, but part of my sinful youth was spent as an Episcopal
Cathedral Choirboy in Pittsburgh in the 1960's.  One of the Choir Mothers had
a DKW.  We once got nine choirboys into it, and I doubt if that record has
ever been beaten.

The history of Auto Union is fascinating and has been far more successful than
that of the other Weimar-forced corporate merger of 1926, the Zeiss Ikon
camera concern.  Both were mergers of four companies -- note the four circles
in the Audi logo?

Marc


msmall at aya.yale.edu
Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir!

From marcsmall at comcast.net  Tue Jun 17 17:32:15 2008
From: marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:32:15 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Control of Energy
In-Reply-To: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230F2DDE2@ENT-MOCEXMB03.u
	s.ad.gannett.com>
References: <20080617221932.DAFEAFF8CC@usat-vocmail2.usatoday.com>
	<9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230F2DDE2@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
Message-ID: <20080617233842.914FD187664@autox.team.net>

At 07:20 PM 6/17/2008, Teepen, Jere wrote:
 >Audi, Horch, DKW, and Wanderer?

Certainly.  The deal was cut in 1926 but only became a real union in 1932.

Marc


msmall at aya.yale.edu
Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir!

From cjcoffel at sonic.net  Tue Jun 17 18:19:40 2008
From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:19:40 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
References: <20080617221603.DYHE4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <001801c8d0d9$008d73d0$6401a8c0@pc1>

It's already happening. A friend runs an auto dealership which includes both 
Honda and GMC. They were given wholesale, minus 8000 dollars for SUVs and 
then stopped taking them period. they are also paying up to 2000 dollars 
premium for small cars. Jack Wagoneer is right. Of course, too little to 
late, I think.

My old man said people wouldn't buy GM cars for years in LA because of what 
they and Firestone did. I just found out from and old local guy that they 
did the same in the bay area (San Fran).

Chris
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Lau" <mrlau at charter.net>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:15 PM
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)


>I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of
> cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course there 
> is
>
> the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant...
>
> Well, if that's the answer we are doing our part with our 2,500 lb.  cars.
> Remove one gas tank and lose 50lb. Aluminum heads..50lb. Aluminum intake 
> 20
> lb.
> Headers replacing cast iron ex. manifolds..10 lb.  Now we're down to 
> 2,370
> lb.  What else can go?
> M
>
> I guess ice cream and chocolate. -- Bill --
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as cjcoffel at sonic.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Tue Jun 17 18:42:56 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:42:56 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?
References: <19778253.319721213719183477.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web02-z02>
Message-ID: <00c701c8d0dc$40104610$0202a8c0@student2>

Steve,
  It's said that, "water seeks its own level."  In the same way this list, 
"is what it is."  I'd say 8 years ago when I joined it was about 80% 
information regarding Tigers as it related to their history or repairs. 
Recently, at times, it seems like 80% chit - chat.
  Using the water analogy again this list, "ebbs and flows."  I think it has 
been "ebbing" for some time now.  Regardless, the people are familiar to me, 
at times it gets back to its "Roote's" (Pun intended) and it is simply part 
of the social fabric of my life.
  Could it be better? Sure. But it could also be a lot worst. In a lot of 
ways it's like the Tiger itself. There a things you love, and there are 
things you hate.  It is what it is.
Tom 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20
AM

From shutchin at netjets.com  Tue Jun 17 18:46:53 2008
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:46:53 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B014EE7DA@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

Some of the best messages I have seen on this list fall into the chit chat category. 

I actually really like the e-mail format. 

For those of us with blackberries it sure helps break up the day. 

I will stay on this list long after I get rid of the car. 




Scott Hutchinson
Director of Operations
Netjets Large Aircraft

Office 860.292.1191
Mobile 843.290.2805

----- Original Message -----
From: tigers-bounces+shutchin=netjets.com at autox.team.net <tigers-bounces+shutchin=netjets.com at autox.team.net>
To: tigers at autox.team.net <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tue Jun 17 20:42:56 2008
Subject: Re: [Tigers] A better way to communicate ?

Steve,
  It's said that, "water seeks its own level."  In the same way this list, 
"is what it is."  I'd say 8 years ago when I joined it was about 80% 
information regarding Tigers as it related to their history or repairs. 
Recently, at times, it seems like 80% chit - chat.
  Using the water analogy again this list, "ebbs and flows."  I think it has 
been "ebbing" for some time now.  Regardless, the people are familiar to me, 
at times it gets back to its "Roote's" (Pun intended) and it is simply part 
of the social fabric of my life.
  Could it be better? Sure. But it could also be a lot worst. In a lot of 
ways it's like the Tiger itself. There a things you love, and there are 
things you hate.  It is what it is.
Tom 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1505 - Release Date: 6/16/2008 7:20
AM
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html

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From TIGEROOTES at aol.com  Tue Jun 17 20:55:52 2008
From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:55:52 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] DKW
Message-ID: <c54.2effeb51.3589d338@aol.com>

Jere writes:

My dad had a DKW (pre-Audi)in the late 50's/early 60's.  I believe it was a 3 
cylinder two 
> stroke, but am unsure.

> 
> I may be mistaken, but I think that DKW had the first automotive application 
> of a "infinately variable" gearbox, or whatever it was called.  Two opposing 
> splined cones, one driven, one for the output.  Ironically, I just purchased 
> a scooter that gets 95 mpg and has a very similar transmission.
> 
> Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club     Seattle




**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net  Tue Jun 17 21:00:28 2008
From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:00:28 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)
References: <cf5.2f2353ff.3589125d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001601c8d0ef$771e8870$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Don't think that GM can be "entirely stupid"?

I seemed to remember GM chose the Hummer over EV-1.
And then the GM board openly laughed at Toyota's management when the Prius 
was announced.
Toyota will sell several hundred thousand Priuses this year. But we all make 
mistakes.

Then, didn't GM hire some of the top guys from Toyota?

I believe the formula that the California Air Resources Board adopted was 
the reason for GM to run with Hydrogen.
To comply with the California quotas, auto makers are allowed choices. 
Different types of vehicles have different production quotas The lowest 
quota is for Hydrogen vehicles.

GM's new chairman seems to be really on the ball. I've listened to his 
interviews where he guesses at the future. He listed EVs as part of 
solution, but by no means the whole thing. He never mentioned Hydrogen. I 
took that as a hint.

Buck Trippel



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Carmods at aol.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] BMW gas (not gasoline)


> todbrown at roadrunner.com writes:
>
> I don't  think that BMW and GM and the rest are entirely stupid, so they 
> must
> envision  a scenario in which H2 can play a role.  Let's give a little 
> credit
> for  their willingness to try the experiment.
>
>
>
> When I was a youngster I lived near the Crow Indian Reservation in 
> Montana.
> During a dry spell the Indians would do their rain dance for a week or so. 
> It
> made them feel good, the rain gods felt good, and eventually it rained. 
> One
> good thing though, it didn't cost the rest of us anything.
>
> John Logan
>
>
>
> **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
> fuel-efficient used cars. 
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as bucktrippel at verizon.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From lcbohrer at comcast.net  Tue Jun 17 21:31:21 2008
From: lcbohrer at comcast.net (Lionel Bohrer)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:31:21 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Paint and engine radiation cooling
Message-ID: <001601c8d0f3$c7ddeea0$0201a8c0@Budstoy>

It's critical to understand here that we're talking infrared radiation and
absorption here, not visible wavelengths.  In the visible waveband, black does
absorb better (try touching a white car versus black in direct sunlight), and
radiate better as well, I think.  The coeficients of radiation and absorption
are usually very similar.  At IR wavelengths, the transmission and absorption
are more related to texture of the surface.  I think a flat white will radiate
just as well as black.  I think you're free to select engine and engine
compartment colors on convenience and cosmetic factors and essentially have
the same energy transfer.  That said, I've had the opinion that engine paints
may add a layer of insulation to the engine and that may inhibit heat transfer
from the engine interior and thus contribute to a hotter engine.  Based an a
lot of 40 year old conclusions and decisions.  I left the engine compartment
in my white Tiger white and painted the engine silver.  I haven't researched
these subjects recently, but doubt the physical principles have changed.

Bud Bohrer

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Tue Jun 17 22:19:18 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:19:18 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Heater Motor Replacement
Message-ID: <017601c8d0fa$79fe75e0$0202a8c0@student2>

 Does anyone recall whether it was the MGB or the MG Midget that the "stubby"
heater motor came out of (and maybe year specific too)?  I bought one years
ago, and had it installed in the blower case waiting for the day when... (the
Tiger is done).  I'm working on my Turbo Pinto and the heater motor hits the
exhaust manifold. On a hunch I pulled the MG motor, put it in the Pinto and it
does the trick because of its shorter length.  I want to let these guys know
about this little trick (they scrounge up A/C heaters because the motor is in
the interior) .
  Thanks, Tom
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Tue Jun 17 23:29:37 2008
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:29:37 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Doane's Horses
Message-ID: <d28.2bd5b581.3589f741@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/16/08 5:54:56 PM, jxnichols at sbcglobal.net writes:


> "So are you getting 381 HP from your 260? I doubt it!"
> 

Yes, got it on the dyno! Feel free to call me a liar anytime. No lie, but I 
did bait everyone a little. Motor has a large arm, is bigger than 260, runs 
very high   compression and has custom made alu heads from Ford's F1 and Indy 
motor program, full roller valve train. Mr. Begosian was a chief developer on the 
J and K code motors. There really is nothing 260 about it anymore. The big 
gamble is can I cool it. Joe wants to put a spray bar in front of the radiator. 
Also drivability issues are still a concern!

So why do you feel so threatened by this?

A similar combination of components used on a 302 has produced 475hp and is 
currently in a really fast Mustang running in the Central Valley.

Moonstone


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From mmichels at socal.rr.com  Wed Jun 18 01:28:13 2008
From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:28:13 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] DKW
References: <c54.2effeb51.3589d338@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00e401c8d114$de69dcd0$6401a8c0@delldimension>

I think you are referring to DAF, which was a Dutch carmaker, more recent 
than DKW (which stood for Die Kleine Wunder or The Small Wonder) . DAF was 
the original user of the Van Doorne belt-type Continuously Variable 
Transmission. DAF also built some vehicles as a subcontractor for Volvo. I 
had one when I lived in Germany and it was, to be kind, not very good.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <TIGEROOTES at aol.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] DKW


> Jere writes:
>
> My dad had a DKW (pre-Audi)in the late 50's/early 60's.  I believe it was 
> a 3
> cylinder two
>> stroke, but am unsure.
>
>>
>> I may be mistaken, but I think that DKW had the first automotive 
>> application
>> of a "infinately variable" gearbox, or whatever it was called.  Two 
>> opposing
>> splined cones, one driven, one for the output.  Ironically, I just 
>> purchased
>> a scooter that gets 95 mpg and has a very similar transmission.
>>
>> Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club     Seattle
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
> fuel-efficient used cars.
>      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 18 03:15:44 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 02:15:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Doane's Horses
In-Reply-To: <d28.2bd5b581.3589f741@aol.com>
Message-ID: <662202.53015.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The quote "So are you getting 381 HP from your 260? I doubt it!"
is from your email of 6/16.  That is your statement, not mine. 
   
  Your statement says you cast doubt on getting 381 HP from a 260.  My response was speculation on Doane Spencer achieving 400 HP from a Ford 260 using modern engine parts because Doane was said to get 349 HP in 1965.   
   
   
   Believe me, I don't feel threatened by anything you say.  
   
   
                                              Jeff

Drmoonstone at aol.com wrote:
  
In a message dated 6/16/08 5:54:56 PM, jxnichols at sbcglobal.net writes:


  "So are you getting 381 HP from your 260? I doubt it!"


Yes, got it on the dyno! Feel free to call me a liar anytime. No lie, but I did bait everyone a little. Motor has a large arm, is bigger than 260, runs very high  compression and has custom made alu heads from Ford's F1 and Indy motor program, full roller valve train. Mr. Begosian was a chief developer on the J and K code motors. There really is nothing 260 about it anymore. The big gamble is can I cool it. Joe wants to put a spray bar in front of the radiator. Also drivability issues are still a concern!

So why do you feel so threatened by this?

A similar combination of components used on a 302 has produced 475hp and is currently in a really fast Mustang running in the Central Valley.

Moonstone


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) 

From lists at brits-n-pieces.com  Wed Jun 18 04:59:33 2008
From: lists at brits-n-pieces.com (Eric Frenken)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:59:33 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger dynamo
In-Reply-To: <BAY142-DAV1200FC874FB0F3B870903DCB950@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <02e701c8d132$6439aad0$16b2a8c0@heinz>

Can anyone tell me the type of dynamo a '65 Tiger had been installed?

Thank you.

Eric

From tym2 at comcast.net  Wed Jun 18 06:18:00 2008
From: tym2 at comcast.net (tym2 at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:18:00 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Help!
Message-ID: <061820081218.17890.4858FCF800072AB6000045E22216548686CD03979B@comcast.net>

Tigers,

I have had an ongoing problem with my MK1A.
Some time ago, I did the car over an added a 5 speed and "built" 302.
The engine has Trick-Flow heads (I didn't paint them!), headers, Mallory ignition, and a not too hairy cam.
I'm using an Edelbrock 289 Performer manifold with a Carter Competition 650cfm carb.

Here's the problem:  I live in new England, and after the winter (especially) the car doesn't run even - sometimes it won't idle at low rpm.  I have a friend who is much better at the mechanical stuff than I am.  Yesterday, he removed the bleeder screws from the base of the carb and blew them out with a little compressed air while opening and closing the throttle.  It worked!

Evidently there is moisture somewhere and he thinks the throttle plates are freezing.  Are there different manifold gaskets I can get to allow a little heat to pass up there, - do I need some kind of base plate under the carb - or what?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance

--
Tym McDowell

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Wed Jun 18 08:12:43 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:12:43 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger dynamo
In-Reply-To: <02e701c8d132$6439aad0$16b2a8c0@heinz>
Message-ID: <000201c8d14d$626d0ce0$97941840@ronpc1>

Eric
	The Dynamo is Ford part # C1TZ-10002-A
See page WF3 of the parts list below

http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/Parts_List/17-WF-Electical
Equipment.pdf

Ron Fraser


-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Eric Frenken
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:00 AM
To: 'tigers_United_forum'
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger dynamo


Can anyone tell me the type of dynamo a '65 Tiger had been installed?

Thank you.

Eric
You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com

Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

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4:30 PM

From mark.rense at ge.com  Wed Jun 18 09:01:11 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:01:11 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>
  <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

For an interesting reference on a modern nano car in the real world, Car
and Drivel a couple issues back took delivery of a Smartcar Twofour in
Phoenix and actual drove it on the interstates and in the mountains.
They got low-30's in mileage, mostly because the car was nearly WFO on
the interstates. Little cars, at least under-powered little cars, are
not the total answer.

I owned a BMW Isetta 300 for a few years, it was powered by a 300 cc
version of the R26 single-cylinder motorcycle engine. It was a joke to
drive anywhere, 13 hp pushing 1100 lbs. is not entertaining in the least
bit (0 to 30 in about 25 seconds). I'll take a Hillman Imp or Morris any
day!

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
drmayf
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:25 PM
To: CoolVT at aol.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject)

Downsizing may be forth coming for sure. But I dare you, no double dare
you to jump into the Messerschmitt, BMW Isetta,  Tata Nano and driv eit
from here to Abile Texas in under 18 hours.

mayf, hot outside today around 106 or more...
--------------------

CoolVT at aol.com wrote:

>I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of
>cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course
>there is the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant...

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Wed Jun 18 09:10:27 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:10:27 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806180810v761658b7ud851609eb4f3e169@mail.gmail.com>

one of the projects i'm planning is a fiat 500 with a 900cc kawasaki
engine.  power upgrade from 18hp to about 130.

now that is fun!   its one of the few cars light enough to work ok
with the low torque of a motorbike engine.

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)
<mark.rense at ge.com> wrote:
> For an interesting reference on a modern nano car in the real world, Car
> and Drivel a couple issues back took delivery of a Smartcar Twofour in
> Phoenix and actual drove it on the interstates and in the mountains.
> They got low-30's in mileage, mostly because the car was nearly WFO on
> the interstates. Little cars, at least under-powered little cars, are
> not the total answer.
>
> I owned a BMW Isetta 300 for a few years, it was powered by a 300 cc
> version of the R26 single-cylinder motorcycle engine. It was a joke to
> drive anywhere, 13 hp pushing 1100 lbs. is not entertaining in the least
> bit (0 to 30 in about 25 seconds). I'll take a Hillman Imp or Morris any
> day!
>
> Bugz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
> drmayf
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:25 PM
> To: CoolVT at aol.com
> Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] (no subject)
>
> Downsizing may be forth coming for sure. But I dare you, no double dare
> you to jump into the Messerschmitt, BMW Isetta,  Tata Nano and driv eit
> from here to Abile Texas in under 18 hours.
>
> mayf, hot outside today around 106 or more...
> --------------------
>
> CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
>
>>I still believe that the immediate solution is the downsizing of
>>cars....Tata Nano....Worked in Europe after the war. And of course
>>there is the Heinkel, Messerschmitt, Reliant...
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Wed Jun 18 09:25:56 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:25:56 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F09B@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

The last tank on my Echo got me over 750 km or 460 miles (on about 41
litres, call it 11 US gallons). My normal commute speed is 60 to 70 mph
with some 8 percent grades thrown in for fun, and there is lots of room
left under my throttle foot. When the Tiger is back in running shape I'm
going to do a mileage project with the Echo. I picked up an IHI turbo
from a Subaru about 6 months ago... Not sure if it will be small enough
for what I think is needed. With the Echo having variable intake valve
timing, I figure I can run high static compression, let the intake cam
retard to lower the piston compression ratio, and use the exhaust energy
to drive the turbo and provide higher manifold pressure to get back to
normal-range cylinder pressures. This way each compression stage is
performed by the mechanism most suited to the task. Getting it all
controlled the right way will be the challenge.

I considered a Smart car when I was looking for a commuter vehicle. The
Echo has twice the seats, it can carry ten foot long things with the
trunk closed, and it cost me about half of what a Smart car would have.
Theo

From CoolVT at aol.com  Wed Jun 18 09:59:15 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:59:15 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
Message-ID: <c46.3473d16d.358a8ad3@aol.com>

Theo,
That Echo definitely sounds like one of the answers.
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Wed Jun 18 10:07:17 2008
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:07:17 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] Crossmember
Message-ID: <20080618.120717.24911.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

Someone ask the question if the Alpine crossmember and the Tiger crossmember
were the same unit. The answer was no, they were different units.

To continue this discussion......
Is the Tiger crossmember a totally different stamping then the Alpine or is
the crossmember the same unit but modified for the Tiger??
If the answer is a different unit,  then the Tiger crossmember will sooner or
later become an endangered animal.

My understanding is,  the Alpine crossmember was used but modified to be used
on the Tiger.
Tim
9470149
____________________________________________________________
Beauty Advice Just Got a Makeover
Read reviews about the beauty products you have always wanted to try
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7VSDPCMA5VwAUrDgk49xlXhVTW
yeijBWDnNmwR4eTQfbJT8/

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Wed Jun 18 10:11:42 2008
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:11:42 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] Heater Motor Replacement
Message-ID: <20080618.121142.24911.1@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

TURBO PINTO???????

I thought all the Pintos were put out to pasture.
Any pixs??
____________________________________________________________
Smart Girls Secret Weapon
Read Unbiased Beauty Product Reviews, Get Helpful Tips, Tricks and Sam
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7VaJFtAAaY0U4hh86xjg5BVDcu
xYb0cdrfEOvGbgfwdyOKu/

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Wed Jun 18 12:40:38 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:40:38 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046CE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

".....I owned a BMW Isetta 300 for a few years, it was powered by a 300 cc
version of the R26 single-cylinder motorcycle engine. It was a joke to
drive anywhere, 13 hp pushing 1100 lbs. is not entertaining in the least
bit (0 to 30 in about 25 seconds)......"



Mark, interesting you brought up this car....I have a couple bmw issetta
600's, and was thinking I could get some serious mpg with one....but it sounds
like you have already tried that and it didn't work out? I was going to pursue
a late model bike motor like a efi R12....1200cc opposed twin which as I
understand it will actually boltup to the transaxle....with some minor
tweeking...it seems that most 11 and 1200cc bikes are around 120 horse..I was
hoping that would work good in that micro car...that is as long as I don't get
plowed by a semi-truck...or even a pickup....or a kid on a bike.


Cullen

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Wed Jun 18 12:15:20 2008
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:15:20 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1213812003.30131.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>

Not to rain on any parade, or to suggested shoehorn implants shouldn't be 
done - not at all.  But, I did recently read an article that indicated 
that motorcycle engines are far dirtier than car engines.  So, as usual, 
you don't get power for nothing!  Of course, whether or not someone cares 
about that aspect, expecially in a 60's performance sports car forum, 
that's up to them.



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From mark.rense at ge.com  Wed Jun 18 12:29:15 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:29:15 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046CE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>
	<485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com><F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046CE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2DFA@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Cullen,
Where do I start? The Isetta's top speed was about 55 mph, so it was not
suitable for American highways, plus I think the car would be a handful
at any speed above that. It was dog slow off the line, so getting run
over by an Escalade when the light turns green is a real possibility.
The car was only attractive when parked, I eventually dreaded having to
go somewhere in it, as I had to plan out a surface street route and then
be on constant watch for errant SUVs. I sold it without hesitation when
offered a reasonable sum.

There are conversions to use a modern Honda engine out of a 250 scooter,
that doubles the hp but that IMHO is still a long way off being
practical. A company called Tri-Tech used to make kits and conversions
for different motorcycle engines. I saw a link to a Suzuki
Hayabusa-powered Isetta on YouTube, I cannot imaging 185 hp in such an
unstable platform. You mentioned converting to an Oilhead Type 259 boxer
engine, I do not think the old 4-speed from an R56 will "bolt on", you
would be better served to buy a complete R1100 drive train and adapt
that to the Isetta's rear end. Go for a motor out of a R or GS model,
they are lower hp but better midrange power and torque. Also, I think
you will also need to apply for a pilot's license before it's all over.

Good luck with that!

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Cullen McCann
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:41 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano Cars

".....I owned a BMW Isetta 300 for a few years, it was powered by a 300
cc version of the R26 single-cylinder motorcycle engine. It was a joke
to drive anywhere, 13 hp pushing 1100 lbs. is not entertaining in the
least bit (0 to 30 in about 25 seconds)......"



Mark, interesting you brought up this car....I have a couple bmw issetta
600's, and was thinking I could get some serious mpg with one....but it
sounds like you have already tried that and it didn't work out? I was
going to pursue a late model bike motor like a efi R12....1200cc opposed
twin which as I understand it will actually boltup to the
transaxle....with some minor tweeking...it seems that most 11 and 1200cc
bikes are around 120 horse..I was hoping that would work good in that
micro car...that is as long as I don't get plowed by a semi-truck...or
even a pickup....or a kid on a bike.


Cullen
You are subscribed as mark.rense at ge.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Wed Jun 18 15:16:11 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:16:11 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines
In-Reply-To: <OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
References: <mailman.19.1213812003.30131.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046FE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

"......Not to rain on any parade, or to suggested shoehorn implants shouldn't
be done - not at all....."


I think Bugz set me strait on the complications with this swap...have to say
its not very reassuring, but I'm not clear on whey they shouldn't be done at
all... Ive seen several motorcycle engine swaps into cars like lotus super 7's
and caterhams, vw projects, etc...some seem to work fine for the intent behind
the vehicle...like the Hyabusa engine as a popular donor motor for such
projects....why not?

Just asking, not really looking for a debate, I just honestly don't really
know why its such a globally bad idea.

Cullen

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Wed Jun 18 14:05:27 2008
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:05:27 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines
In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046FE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
References: <mailman.19.1213812003.30131.tigers@autox.team.net><OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046FE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <D5DE57CD90984C328CE74E3B9F5529B8@DellD4700>

Cullen,

I don't think it is a globally bad idea. There are, however, some additional
difficulties and considerations in putting a modern bike engine in a car.

Most bike engines and transmissions (Harleys and some of the other cruisers
excepted) are designed for use as a unit, which means you either do without
reverse or create a system of your own. Honda Goldwings, for example, use
the starter motor to supply power to some sort of reverse gear arrangement. 

I don't think the lack of a reverse would necessarily be a bad thing in a
race car, such as the Legends cars with motorcycle engines, but it could be
a problem for an everyday car.

Motorcycle engines (again with cruisers excepted) are also generally
designed as high revving, low torque engines, especially the inline fours.
Think 15-18,000 rpm for a street engine with max torque numbers less than
half of max horsepower numbers. Again, it might not be bad for race cars,
but lots of clutch slipping, shifting and thrashing for an everyday car. 

Most bike engines also have a throttle body or carb for each cylinder which
complicates the tuning process a bit.

Overall, I think a Honda VTEC 1600cc engine, for example, is a better swap
than a 1300cc Hayabusa engine for a small car, but I would never discourage
anyone from making any kind of swap.  

Don't get me wrong, I love motorcycles and ride about 10,000 miles a year.
But, if I were to build a small car, I would be more likely to put a lightly
stressed small block Ford in an old Geo Tracker that happens to be sitting
around my house. Oh, wait - that is what I'm working on!
 

A. C. Tynes
New Orleans
 
> 
> Just asking, not really looking for a debate, I just honestly don't really
> know why its such a globally bad idea.
> 
> Cullen

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Wed Jun 18 14:12:45 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:12:45 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines
In-Reply-To: <D5DE57CD90984C328CE74E3B9F5529B8@DellD4700>
References: <mailman.19.1213812003.30131.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046FE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
	<D5DE57CD90984C328CE74E3B9F5529B8@DellD4700>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806181312k6bf30a38vfedaa5fddee45f0a@mail.gmail.com>

its never going to be practical but you have to admit its fun:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6-_Hmjgjn7c

i discovered a few people have done what i'm planning....

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 9:05 PM, A. C. Tynes <v8tracker at gmail.com> wrote:
> Cullen,
>
> I don't think it is a globally bad idea. There are, however, some additional
> difficulties and considerations in putting a modern bike engine in a car.
>
> Most bike engines and transmissions (Harleys and some of the other cruisers
> excepted) are designed for use as a unit, which means you either do without
> reverse or create a system of your own. Honda Goldwings, for example, use
> the starter motor to supply power to some sort of reverse gear arrangement.
>
> I don't think the lack of a reverse would necessarily be a bad thing in a
> race car, such as the Legends cars with motorcycle engines, but it could be
> a problem for an everyday car.
>
> Motorcycle engines (again with cruisers excepted) are also generally
> designed as high revving, low torque engines, especially the inline fours.
> Think 15-18,000 rpm for a street engine with max torque numbers less than
> half of max horsepower numbers. Again, it might not be bad for race cars,
> but lots of clutch slipping, shifting and thrashing for an everyday car.
>
> Most bike engines also have a throttle body or carb for each cylinder which
> complicates the tuning process a bit.
>
> Overall, I think a Honda VTEC 1600cc engine, for example, is a better swap
> than a 1300cc Hayabusa engine for a small car, but I would never discourage
> anyone from making any kind of swap.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love motorcycles and ride about 10,000 miles a year.
> But, if I were to build a small car, I would be more likely to put a lightly
> stressed small block Ford in an old Geo Tracker that happens to be sitting
> around my house. Oh, wait - that is what I'm working on!
>
>
> A. C. Tynes
> New Orleans
>
>>
>> Just asking, not really looking for a debate, I just honestly don't really
>> know why its such a globally bad idea.
>>
>> Cullen
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Wed Jun 18 16:21:40 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:21:40 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806181312k6bf30a38vfedaa5fddee45f0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.19.1213812003.30131.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046FE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
	<D5DE57CD90984C328CE74E3B9F5529B8@DellD4700>
	<39a841b0806181312k6bf30a38vfedaa5fddee45f0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473306804716@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

Thanks Owain and A.C.....very insightful....I hadn't thought-out the reverse
gear issue....

Oh well, guess I'll stick to small block v8's in small roadsters...always a
winner...    ;)






its never going to be practical but you have to admit its fun...

From RSSmithIQ at cs.com  Wed Jun 18 16:05:01 2008
From: RSSmithIQ at cs.com (Randy Smith)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:05:01 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Edelbrock Water Pump
Message-ID: <4859868D.7090501@cs.com>

Does anyone have a part number for the Edelbrock water pump that fits 
the 260 engine?

Thanks- Randy
-- 

Randy Smith
INNER QUEST, Inc.
34752 Charles Town Pike
Purcellville, VA  20132
703-478-1078
540-668-6699
540-668-6253 fax

InnerQuestOnline.com <http://www.innerquestonline.com/>
RSSmithIQ at cs.com
Tiger- B382000189

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Wed Jun 18 16:29:55 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:29:55 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines
In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473306804716@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
References: <mailman.19.1213812003.30131.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046FE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
	<D5DE57CD90984C328CE74E3B9F5529B8@DellD4700>
	<39a841b0806181312k6bf30a38vfedaa5fddee45f0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473306804716@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806181529g453e414cy1fe28517d0671fd7@mail.gmail.com>

there quite a few motorbike conversions done here in the UK and the
usual solution is a mechanically engaged starter motor for reverse
gear.

there's actually a company you can buy a kit from for mini's.  their
mini does 0-60 in about 2.6s.  can't remember the name of them
though....

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Cullen McCann <cmccann at lwpb.com> wrote:
> Thanks Owain and A.C.....very insightful....I hadn't thought-out the reverse gear issue....
>
> Oh well, guess I'll stick to small block v8's in small roadsters...always a winner...    ;)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> its never going to be practical but you have to admit its fun...

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Wed Jun 18 17:19:52 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:19:52 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2DFA@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046CE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2DFA@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806181619q5a5d195er4747b958efd929df@mail.gmail.com>

Well keeping the Tigers theme.. I've always thought the KR500
(TIGER)  messerschmitt would be a sweet ride with a 996 ducatti motor... oh
and the sound!

-
Regards

Michael King

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Thu Jun 19 08:51:16 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:51:16 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <d86d088a0806181619q5a5d195er4747b958efd929df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046CE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2DFA@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<d86d088a0806181619q5a5d195er4747b958efd929df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647330680476F@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

Anything sounds good with a ducati 996 motor!!! That would sound good on a
wheel barrow!





Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano Cars

Well keeping the Tigers theme.. I've always thought the KR500
(TIGER)  messerschmitt would be a sweet ride with a 996 ducatti motor... oh
and the sound!

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Thu Jun 19 06:55:16 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:55:16 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647330680476F@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD684709064733068046CE@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2DFA@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<d86d088a0806181619q5a5d195er4747b958efd929df@mail.gmail.com>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647330680476F@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806190555q105af80cm231fbaa9b275728a@mail.gmail.com>

it'd be pretty fast on an unpainted, polished aluminum wheel barrow too.

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Cullen McCann <cmccann at lwpb.com> wrote:
> Anything sounds good with a ducati 996 motor!!! That would sound good on a
> wheel barrow!
>
>
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano Cars
>
> Well keeping the Tigers theme.. I've always thought the KR500
> (TIGER)  messerschmitt would be a sweet ride with a 996 ducatti motor... oh
> and the sound!
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Thu Jun 19 08:13:27 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:13:27 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Edelbrock Water Pump
In-Reply-To: <4859868D.7090501@cs.com>
Message-ID: <000501c8d216$a84903d0$84911840@ronpc1>

Randy

Here is an email that Eric Coiner sent out;

If the front cover on your 260 is the original design, the proper part is :

Edelbrock 8842

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL%2D8842&vi
ew=1&N=700+0

You will need to use a hydraulic press to push the hub back to the correct
depth to match your current pump.
You will need to make a sleeve 5/8 id and 1 inch od to keep your pulleys
concentric with the shaft.
As an alternative, you can find a pulley from a Ford fairmont I believe. It
has the same offset has a tiger pulley with a 5/8 hole.
There was a guy on Ebay selling them regularly about 3 years ago.

There are two flavors of 60's vintage Ford SB water pumps. With backing
plate and without.
Without is the earlier design and was replaced some time in the 65 model
year.
Pull your water pump off the car, if you can see the impeller you have no
backing plate.

Edelbrock p/n's

8841  Backing Plate
8842  No Backing Plate
-------------------------------------------------


Ron Fraser


-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Randy Smith
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 6:05 PM
To: Tiger List Serve
Subject: [Tigers] Edelbrock Water Pump


Does anyone have a part number for the Edelbrock water pump that fits
the 260 engine?

Thanks- Randy
--

Randy Smith
INNER QUEST, Inc.
34752 Charles Town Pike
Purcellville, VA  20132
703-478-1078
540-668-6699
540-668-6253 fax

InnerQuestOnline.com <http://www.innerquestonline.com/>
RSSmithIQ at cs.com
Tiger- B382000189 _______________________________________________
Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html

You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com

Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date: 6/18/2008
7:09 AM

From mark.rense at ge.com  Thu Jun 19 08:40:49 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:40:49 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines
In-Reply-To: <OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
References: <mailman.19.1213812003.30131.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04D292EA@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Jay, both the EU and USA EPA measure emissions based on grams per mile
(or kilometer), small motorcycle engines will put out so little per mile
they can pass without much control, so technically they are dirtier.
Most larger bikes have stringent emission controls, European bikes have
had catalytic converters for years. Now that our EPA has adopted the EU
Tier II emissions standards, all bikes will be much cleaner.

Even Harley passes these new requirements with flying colors. Of course,
the first thing one does after acquiring a new product from The Motor
Company is to add a louder exhaust, a free-flowing intake, and rejet the
carb or re-program the computer module all in the name of added
performance, i.e., noise. This of course negates much of the factory's
emission control hard work. With the new 2010 laws restricting emission
tampering, that too will be curtailed.

The EPA started to regulate motorcycles in 1980, that first step
basically outlawed 2-stroke engines over 50 cc, only the Yamaha RZ350
survived, it needed cat-cons to pass. Those laws were never changed on a
national level until last year. However, the California regs have always
been much tighter than the Feds and bike manufacturers have generally
met those requirements nation-wide, so bikes have been much cleaner than
they needed to be by law in the other 49.

Of course, none of MY bikes have ever been tampered with, they're all
completely stock...that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 2:15 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines

Not to rain on any parade, or to suggested shoehorn implants shouldn't
be done - not at all.  But, I did recently read an article that
indicated that motorcycle engines are far dirtier than car engines.

From alittlemoreink at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 10:10:21 2008
From: alittlemoreink at hotmail.com (John Crawley)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:10:21 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate
Message-ID: <BAY127-W20E8EF1F0CB23D25E23DF4DBAA0@phx.gbl>

Hi All:
One thing that would help communications for some of us with slower
connections (and those who subscribe to the Digest version of the List) is for
everyone to delete all the previous communications that are added when you
Click Reply. It takes only three keystrokes: Control, A, Delete . . .  then
begin typing your message. The subject line and the order that the e-mails
arrive are quite enough to keep track of the thread.
Jc


_________________________________________________________________

From w1gsl at MIT.EDU  Thu Jun 19 10:34:55 2008
From: w1gsl at MIT.EDU (Steven L. Finberg)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:34:55 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:10:21 -0000."
	<BAY127-W20E8EF1F0CB23D25E23DF4DBAA0@phx.gbl> 
Message-ID: <200806191634.m5JGYurr021326@grumpy-fuzzball.mit.edu>

>The subject line and the order that the e-mails    
>arrive are quite enough to keep track of the thread.                          
>Jc                                                                            

No... A thousand times No.

Edit what you are responding to.  
But make sure we know WHAT and WHO you are responding to. 

It is much too  easy to lose the thread if you remove eveything.
Subjects often are incomlete and emails can show up days late and
frequently out of order.

Steve F

*******************************************************************************
Steve Finberg                        W1GSL                       w1gsl at mit.edu
PO Box 397082 MIT Br        Cambridge MA  02139-7082              617 258 3754
*******************************************************************************

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Thu Jun 19 12:41:53 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:41:53 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] A better way to communicate
In-Reply-To: <200806191634.m5JGYurr021326@grumpy-fuzzball.mit.edu>
References: Your message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:10:21 -0000."
	<BAY127-W20E8EF1F0CB23D25E23DF4DBAA0@phx.gbl>
	<200806191634.m5JGYurr021326@grumpy-fuzzball.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647330680481A@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

What do you guys think about it when someone leaves a line of the previous
conversation like this:



".....Edit what you are responding to.
But make sure we know WHAT and WHO you are responding to....."




Cullen

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Thu Jun 19 12:14:09 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:14:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars
References: <OFDFE3ACDE.339E6433-ON8825746C.00641C19-8825746C.00644848@countrywide.com>
Message-ID: <018301c8d238$44fd1f60$0202a8c0@student2>

I'm a little confused about the mileage regarding Nano cars and even the 
Prius.  The "real world" best mileage they get seems to be about mid - 50 
MPG.  I have a 1991 Mazda 323, 5 speed with 150,000 miles on it.  If I drive 
55-60 MPH (I try and stay at 55) I have gotten 45 MPG on a number of trips. 
I'm not grasping all the "technological advancements" (and weight reduction 
with the Nano cars) in the 17 year gap between the time these cars were 
built.  For my money (and in this case the Mazda was free) a decent, older 
car, driven in a practical way makes more economical sense.

  After all, though "mileage" may be the (sub) topic, in the end it's what 
it cost that matters.  It kind of reminds me of that old comment that you 
were, "better off buying 4 year old Toyota than a new Yugo."  It might be 
your better of buying an older car with good mileage and driving it properly 
than buying a Nano or a Preius. Well..., at least if your a penny pinching 
tight wad like myself.  :-)
Tom 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1509 - Release Date: 6/19/2008 8:00
AM

From zymmer4 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 12:29:26 2008
From: zymmer4 at yahoo.com (Howard gentry)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:29:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars
Message-ID: <816942.21306.qm@web51308.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

hi,
     It seems that there is another thinking person on the planet that is not
standing in line at the "do it our way" counter.
     I lived in England in the early 1970s'. I owned several cars..one of
which was a 1957 Ford Anglia and another was a 1963 Ford Cortina.
 
The Anglia got 52 MPG on an imperial gallon..the Cortina got 40 on the same
gallon..The Anglia was a 1175 cc engine, 4 door..the Cortina was a 1500cc 4
door..both ran like the wind, did not ever break down and were easy to
insure.  I knew friends who had Simcas and the like that got better milage
than my Fords..The point is..I think we are getting the s..t shoveled right in
our face by Oil..that may control Auto Manufacturers and all else.  The "green
cars" are not going to solve anything long term except pile cash into the
makers of these rediculous "bandaids".
     If England could do economical cars in the past, Why the hell can't the
worlds' auto makers do it now??
     Just a question I have been chewing on.
Howard

The Blues is the only music Original to the United States of America.

--- On Thu, 6/19/08, Thomas Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Thomas Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 2:14 PM

I'm a little confused about the mileage regarding Nano cars and even the
Prius.  The "real world" best mileage they get seems to be about mid
- 50
MPG.  I have a 1991 Mazda 323, 5 speed with 150,000 miles on it.  If I drive
55-60 MPH (I try and stay at 55) I have gotten 45 MPG on a number of trips.
I'm not grasping all the "technological advancements" (and weight
reduction
with the Nano cars) in the 17 year gap between the time these cars were
built.  For my money (and in this case the Mazda was free) a decent, older
car, driven in a practical way makes more economical sense.

  After all, though "mileage" may be the (sub) topic, in the end
it's what
it cost that matters.  It kind of reminds me of that old comment that you
were, "better off buying 4 year old Toyota than a new Yugo."  It
might be
your better of buying an older car with good mileage and driving it properly
than buying a Nano or a Preius. Well..., at least if your a penny pinching
tight wad like myself.  :-)
Tom
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1509 - Release Date: 6/19/2008
8:00
AM
You are subscribed as zymmer4 at yahoo.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Thu Jun 19 13:18:34 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:18:34 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F0B3@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I'm going to guess that none of the three cars under discussion had:
-Power steering
-Power door locks
-Power windows
-Air conditioning
-air bags
-plastic covering every piece of interior metal
-an inch of sound deadener over every piece of the interior

On the other hand, they had small-ish brakes and wheels/tires, and a
driveline that was appropriately sized for the power levels used in the
car.
And they each weighed well under a ton.
Most likely, they were not driven at much over 60 MPH very often either,
so the inertia would have played a large factor in the mileage achieved.
The problem is that the target buyer for the big automakers these days
expects all of the comfort features, and the automakers know where their
bread is buttered.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Howard gentry
Sent: June 19, 2008 12:29 PM
To: Thomas Witt
Cc: tiger list
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars

hi,
<snip>
     If England could do economical cars in the past, Why the hell can't
the worlds' auto makers do it now??
     Just a question I have been chewing on.
Howard

From tym2 at comcast.net  Thu Jun 19 13:40:19 2008
From: tym2 at comcast.net (tym2 at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:40:19 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Electric Water Pump
Message-ID: <061920081940.8001.485AB623000B9F2B00001F412215551724CD03979B@comcast.net>

Is anyone out there in Tiger land using an electric water pump?

Thanks in advance

Tym McDowell

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Thu Jun 19 15:56:24 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:56:24 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Electric Water Pump
In-Reply-To: <061920081940.8001.485AB623000B9F2B00001F412215551724CD03979B@comcast.net>
References: <061920081940.8001.485AB623000B9F2B00001F412215551724CD03979B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647330680484F@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

Tym,

I don't have one on my Tiger, but I have had one on a couple of small block
chevy's and 1 late model mustang 5.0. I expect the opinions to be across the
board, but every experience I have had with one has been a good one. I know
some people that think they are absurd...

I have a custom, sort of pro-touring Chevy nova...67 model...another car
widely known for cooling issues. I went to a giant aluminum radiator to try to
get the car to cool...and then an auxillary hi flow electric fan....and only
until the electric water pump was on, did the car really improve. It used to
run 225 now it stops at water ever thermostat I'm running...if I run a 180 it
runs 180 degrees, and 160...regardless. Plus...now with elec fan, and elec
water, I theoretically freed up some horses. Plus you can now run the pump and
fans with the motor off and cool the car down faster without it running if
need be.

The mustang ran normal and cool before hand, I installed the pump because I
thought it was cool and it might free up a few horsepower. I cant however
offer much as it relates to a Tiger.


Cullen
'1452

--------------------------------





Is anyone out there in Tiger land using an electric water pump?

Thanks in advance

Tym McDowell
_______________________________________________

From jteepen at usatoday.com  Thu Jun 19 16:19:11 2008
From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:19:11 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars
In-Reply-To: <018301c8d238$44fd1f60$0202a8c0@student2>
Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230FE06D9@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>

My 1992 Dodge Colt (may it rest in peace...) got approximately 47 mpg on the
freeway at 70 mph, with what may have been the last 4 speed manual
transmission installed in a passenger car!

Jere

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Thomas Witt
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:14 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars

I'm a little confused about the mileage regarding Nano cars and even the
Prius.  The "real world" best mileage they get seems to be about mid - 50 MPG.
I have a 1991 Mazda 323, 5 speed with 150,000 miles on it.  If I drive 55-60
MPH (I try and stay at 55) I have gotten 45 MPG on a number of trips.
I'm not grasping all the "technological advancements" (and weight reduction
with the Nano cars) in the 17 year gap between the time these cars were built.
For my money (and in this case the Mazda was free) a decent, older car, driven
in a practical way makes more economical sense.

  After all, though "mileage" may be the (sub) topic, in the end it's what it
cost that matters.  It kind of reminds me of that old comment that you were,
"better off buying 4 year old Toyota than a new Yugo."  It might be your
better of buying an older car with good mileage and driving it properly than
buying a Nano or a Preius. Well..., at least if your a penny pinching tight
wad like myself.  :-) Tom No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1509 - Release Date: 6/19/2008 8:00
AM ___

From fastsage at cox.net  Thu Jun 19 16:33:12 2008
From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:33:12 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars / Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230FE06D9@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
References: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230FE06D9@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
Message-ID: <485ADEA8.8010309@cox.net>

Hey, I have a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger and when I'm cruising at a slow 90 MPH 
in 5th with the A/C on I get around 17 miles to the gallon. Plus, I get 
about 11-13 miles per gallon in city driving when I don't lift the front 
end off the ground. Is that good?

Steve Sage



Teepen, Jere wrote:
> My 1992 Dodge Colt (may it rest in peace...) got approximately 47 mpg on the
> freeway at 70 mph, with what may have been the last 4 speed manual
> transmission installed in a passenger car!
>
> Jere
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> Thomas Witt
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars
>
> I'm a little confused about the mileage regarding Nano cars and even the
> Prius.  





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
Database version: 5.10070e
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From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Thu Jun 19 16:46:18 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:46:18 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars / Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <485ADEA8.8010309@cox.net>
References: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230FE06D9@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
	<485ADEA8.8010309@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000601c8d25e$49b0a010$fbcac24a@jerry>

Now we're getting back to reality!!!

Jerry Christopherson

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Steve Sage
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 5:33 PM
To: Teepen, Jere
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars / Gas Mileage

Hey, I have a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger and when I'm cruising at a slow 90 MPH 
in 5th with the A/C on I get around 17 miles to the gallon. Plus, I get 
about 11-13 miles per gallon in city driving when I don't lift the front 
end off the ground. Is that good?

Steve Sage



Teepen, Jere wrote:
> My 1992 Dodge Colt (may it rest in peace...) got approximately 47 mpg on
the
> freeway at 70 mph, with what may have been the last 4 speed manual
> transmission installed in a passenger car!
>
> Jere
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> Thomas Witt
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars
>
> I'm a little confused about the mileage regarding Nano cars and even the
> Prius.  





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From zymmer4 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 17:03:23 2008
From: zymmer4 at yahoo.com (Howard gentry)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:03:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F0B3@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <779359.87739.qm@web51301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

hehe..
    the target is fuel economy..it won't matter what kind of power accessories
it has if all you can afford to run is a bicycle.  If the industry wanted to
build cars with good fuel milage, they would build the..Crash ratings?? 
Hehe..don't run ito things.
Howard

The Blues is the only music Original to the United States of America.

--- On Thu, 6/19/08, Smit, Theo <Theo.Smit at dynastream.com> wrote:

From: Smit, Theo <Theo.Smit at dynastream.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars
To: zymmer4 at yahoo.com, "Thomas Witt" <atwittsend at verizon.net>
Cc: "tiger list" <tigers at autox.team.net>
Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 3:18 PM

I'm going to guess that none of the three cars under discussion had:
-Power steering
-Power door locks
-Power windows
-Air conditioning
-air bags
-plastic covering every piece of interior metal
-an inch of sound deadener over every piece of the interior

On the other hand, they had small-ish brakes and wheels/tires, and a
driveline that was appropriately sized for the power levels used in the
car.
And they each weighed well under a ton.
Most likely, they were not driven at much over 60 MPH very often either,
so the inertia would have played a large factor in the mileage achieved.
The problem is that the target buyer for the big automakers these days
expects all of the comfort features, and the automakers know where their
bread is buttered.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Howard gentry
Sent: June 19, 2008 12:29 PM
To: Thomas Witt
Cc: tiger list
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars

hi,
<snip>
     If England could do economical cars in the past, Why the hell can't
the worlds' auto makers do it now??
     Just a question I have been chewing on.
Howard
You are subscribed as zymmer4 at yahoo.com

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From sganz at pacbell.net  Thu Jun 19 17:12:47 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Electric Water Pump
Message-ID: <608717.49024.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Go up to the www.gt40s.com site. A few guys are runing them, and many long
threads on various brands. I think Davies Craig (sp) has come up as an nice
inline pump that works well and has external controls etc. Don't know much
about the hot rod style front mounts but I think a few on the list have used
them with good results.
Sandy

----- Original Message ----
From: Cullen McCann
<cmccann at lwpb.com>
To: Tiger's List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday,
June 19, 2008 2:56:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Electric Water Pump

Tym,

I
don't have one on my Tiger, but I have had one on a couple of small block
chevy's and 1 late model mustang 5.0. I expect the opinions to be across the
board, but every experience I have had with one has been a good one. I know
some people that think they are absurd...

I have a custom, sort of
pro-touring Chevy nova...67 model...another car
widely known for cooling
issues. I went to a giant aluminum radiator to try to
get the car to
cool...and then an auxillary hi flow electric fan....and only
until the
electric water pump was on, did the car really improve. It used to
run 225 now
it stops at water ever thermostat I'm running...if I run a 180 it
runs 180
degrees, and 160...regardless. Plus....now with elec fan, and elec
water, I
theoretically freed up some horses.. Plus you can now run the pump and
fans
with the motor off and cool the car down faster without it running if
need be.
The mustang ran normal and cool before hand, I installed the pump because I
thought it was cool and it might free up a few horsepower. I cant however
offer much as it relates to a Tiger.


Cullen
'1452
--------------------------------





Is anyone out there in Tiger land using
an electric water pump?

Thanks in advance

Tym McDowell
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

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From walmenke at bigpond.net.au  Thu Jun 19 17:50:56 2008
From: walmenke at bigpond.net.au (Wally Menke)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:50:56 +1000
Subject: [Tigers]  Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8d267$5166b890$f43429b0$@net.au>

Talking about Nano cars, we had an episode of Top Gear hear on Monday night
which had a brilliant segment on a Peel P50 microcar. You can see it on the
link below and see how 6'5" Jeremy Clarkson folds himself up to fit into
this thing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqf1yKxb9hI


Wally Menke

From RSSmithIQ at cs.com  Thu Jun 19 18:30:05 2008
From: RSSmithIQ at cs.com (Randy Smith)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:30:05 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Fairmont Pulley
Message-ID: <485AFA0D.9020904@cs.com>

Ok, at the risk of scorn for not searching the archives first, a quick 
question about the infamous Fairmont water pump pulley.  Does anyone 
remember the exact year(s) and model(s) for the water pump pulley that 
folks have been using?  Or even better, the Ford part number?  I'd love 
to track one down without dragging myself through all the local junk 
yards. I think it was a Fairmont, though someone said Fairlane to me also.

I have another question too.  I believe that some folks have used "MG" 
(I think) steering arms to help correct the Ackerman angle.  Is that 
part of a more complex fix or can I just switch these and get some (mild 
form of) benefit?  If so, which arms am I looking for?

Thanks- Randy
-- 

Randy Smith
INNER QUEST, Inc.
34752 Charles Town Pike
Purcellville, VA  20132
703-478-1078
540-668-6699
540-668-6253 fax

InnerQuestOnline.com <http://www.innerquestonline.com/>
RSSmithIQ at cs.com
Tiger- B382000189

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Thu Jun 19 18:33:09 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:33:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] You Tube & Top Gear
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d267$5166b890$f43429b0$@net.au>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<000001c8d267$5166b890$f43429b0$@net.au>
Message-ID: <485AFAC5.9050902@SoCal.rr.com>

Wally,

Nice link.  Funny car. But watch the FORD Top Gear offering of the Ford GT.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=dXF_oNFw2fM&feature=related <http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=dXF_oNFw2fM&feature=related>

Hope you have SOUND.

Steve

Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Wally Menke wrote:
> Talking about Nano cars, we had an episode of Top Gear hear on Monday night
> which had a brilliant segment on a Peel P50 microcar. You can see it on the
> link below and see how 6'5" Jeremy Clarkson folds himself up to fit into
> this thing!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqf1yKxb9hI
>
>
> Wally Menke

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Thu Jun 19 18:38:14 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:38:14 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] You Tube & Top Gear
In-Reply-To: <485AFAC5.9050902@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<000001c8d267$5166b890$f43429b0$@net.au>
	<485AFAC5.9050902@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806191738p48845aedq1899bfd7794063c5@mail.gmail.com>

There are some great episodes on Top Gear, when in Dubai i was stuck in a
hotel with crap pay tv.. so i sat on u-tube watching TG vids. The vid you
link to is from clarksons "the good the bad and the ugly" a rather avg video
about his visit to the USA.. this was the highlight of it.

If you go to my youtube profile i have some nice TG episodes in my
favourites..

Morgan GTN, Lambo Muria and some others you will like:

http://www.youtube.com/profile_favorites?user=sunbeam6366


-- 
Regards

Michael King

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Jun 19 18:43:20 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:43:20 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
Message-ID: <c3b.38dc27fd.358c5728@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/19/2008 7:51:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
walmenke at bigpond.net.au writes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqf1yKxb9hI


That is funny. Did you see the camber on that thing....and lifts  the wheel 
in a corner:-)



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From jteepen at usatoday.com  Thu Jun 19 18:49:49 2008
From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:49:49 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Fairmont Pulley
In-Reply-To: <485AFA0D.9020904@cs.com>
Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230FE0768@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>

 Randy:

The Ford Fairmont 6 cylinder was the car with the pulley that matches the
Tiger depth.  The only thing with the Fairmont pulley is it has either two or
three grooves depending on what state it comes from.  California definitely
has three as the third was to drive a smog device most (or all) other states
did not.  I have a couple of them sitting around if you would like one.

The MG steering arms are from the MGB.  These have to be modified to match the
mounting points on a Tiger, but that can be accomplished by any machine shop.
I have several sets of these sitting around also.

Jere

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randy
Smith
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 5:30 PM
To: Tiger List Serve
Subject: [Tigers] Fairmont Pulley

Ok, at the risk of scorn for not searching the archives first, a quick
question about the infamous Fairmont water pump pulley.  Does anyone remember
the exact year(s) and model(s) for the water pump pulley that folks have been
using?  Or even better, the Ford part number?  I'd love to track one down
without dragging myself through all the local junk yards. I think it was a
Fairmont, though someone said Fairlane to me also.

I have another question too.  I believe that some folks have used "MG"
(I think) steering arms to help correct the Ackerman angle.  Is that part of a
more complex fix or can I just switch these and get some (mild form of)
benefit?  If so, which arms am I looking for?

Thanks- Randy
--

Randy Smith
INNER QUEST, Inc.
34752 Charles Town Pike
Purcellville, VA  20132
703-478-1078
540-668-6699
540-668-6253 fax

InnerQuestOnline.com <http://www.innerquestonline.com/>
RSSmithIQ at cs.com
Tiger- B382000189

From tsmit at shaw.ca  Thu Jun 19 19:37:10 2008
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:37:10 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Fairmont Pulley
In-Reply-To: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230FE0768@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
References: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97230FE0768@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
Message-ID: <485B09C6.3090702@shaw.ca>

I'm using a D5ZE-8509-AC pulley. This is a single-sheave pulley 
originally from a 6 cylinder (79-83 or so) Mustang. On my old pump I 
didn't have to press anything to get perfect alignment, while on the 
replacement pump I ended up having to move it just a smidge. On the new 
pump I did have to make clearance (by trimming the ribs) for the inside 
of the pulley bell.

The part number decodes to originally being from a (1975) Mustang 
application, but those didn't have the inline six that I think I got the 
pulley from...
Theo

Teepen, Jere wrote:
>  Randy:
>
> The Ford Fairmont 6 cylinder was the car with the pulley that matches the
> Tiger depth.  The only thing with the Fairmont pulley is it has either two or
> three grooves depending on what state it comes from.  California definitely
> has three as the third was to drive a smog device most (or all) other states
> did not.  I have a couple of them sitting around if you would like one.

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Thu Jun 19 19:42:24 2008
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:42:24 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] More Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d267$5166b890$f43429b0$@net.au>
Message-ID: <000001c8d276$e3955e10$6601a8c0@Brennan>

I'm surprised nobody has pointed at this one.


http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=1K1qV0zQ83A


If the link doesn't work, just search for "Top Gear Peel P50" on
Youtube.

Stu

 
-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Wally Menke
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:51 PM
To: 'Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)'; drmayf at mayfco.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars

Talking about Nano cars, we had an episode of Top Gear hear on Monday
night
which had a brilliant segment on a Peel P50 microcar. You can see it on
the
link below and see how 6'5" Jeremy Clarkson folds himself up to fit into
this thing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqf1yKxb9hI


Wally Menke
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From maliburevue at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 20:29:41 2008
From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] More Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d276$e3955e10$6601a8c0@Brennan>
Message-ID: <74426.22762.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I can top that one.

--- On Thu, 6/19/08, Stu Brennan <stubrennan at comcast.net> wrote:

From: Stu Brennan <stubrennan at comcast.net>
Subject: [Tigers] More Nano Cars
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 6:42 PM

I'm surprised nobody has pointed at this one.


http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=1K1qV0zQ83A


If the link doesn't work, just search for "Top Gear Peel P50" on
Youtube.

Stu

 
-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Wally Menke
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:51 PM
To: 'Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)'; drmayf at mayfco.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars

Talking about Nano cars, we had an episode of Top Gear hear on Monday
night
which had a brilliant segment on a Peel P50 microcar. You can see it on
the
link below and see how 6'5" Jeremy Clarkson folds himself up to fit
into
this thing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqf1yKxb9hI


Wally Menke
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
You are subscribed as maliburevue at yahoo.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Thu Jun 19 20:34:09 2008
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:34:09 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Motorcycle engined cars
Message-ID: <905B9ED0FF624DA0869511E2A585FC00@DellD4700>

Grassroots Motorsports magazine is building a Berkley with a modern
motorcycle engine. The August issue says there will be a future article
about building "A custom differential/transfer case featuring a reverse gear
and a Torsen". Knowing GRM, I expect it to be a neat solution created
without spending cubic dollars or using vast amounts of unobtainiam.

 

Maybe Tim would like to give us a sneak preview?

 

A.C. Tynes

New Orleans

From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Jun 19 20:47:47 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:47:47 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]  Nano cars
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F0B3@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <20080620024844.RYCJ3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

What about emission control.  When the cars changed in about 1973 , mainly
because of no more leaded fuel, the mileage went down considerably.  This
was probably due mostly to low compression necessary because of low octane
fuels available at that time.  Now gasoline has alcohol to improve octane
but alcohol has much less energy per quantity so all of these things
together and there goes fuel mileage.  I remember many people asking in the
70's what good it was to improve the emissions 5% if the mileage was cut in
half.-- Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Smit,
Theo
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:19 PM
To: zymmer4 at yahoo.com; Thomas Witt
Cc: tiger list
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars

I'm going to guess that none of the three cars under discussion had:
-Power steering
-Power door locks
-Power windows
-Air conditioning
-air bags
-plastic covering every piece of interior metal
-an inch of sound deadener over every piece of the interior

On the other hand, they had small-ish brakes and wheels/tires, and a
driveline that was appropriately sized for the power levels used in the
car.
And they each weighed well under a ton.
Most likely, they were not driven at much over 60 MPH very often either,
so the inertia would have played a large factor in the mileage achieved.
The problem is that the target buyer for the big automakers these days
expects all of the comfort features, and the automakers know where their
bread is buttered.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Howard gentry
Sent: June 19, 2008 12:29 PM
To: Thomas Witt
Cc: tiger list
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Nano cars

hi,
<snip>
     If England could do economical cars in the past, Why the hell can't
the worlds' auto makers do it now??
     Just a question I have been chewing on.
Howard
You are subscribed as mrlau at charter.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
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From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Jun 19 20:52:15 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:52:15 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]  Nano cars / Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <485ADEA8.8010309@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20080620025312.RSCI4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

No it is not good if you don't lift the front end off the ground.  It is
your responsibility to use all of your horsepower lest someone claim it is
not necessary to have. -- Bill --



Hey, I have a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger and when I'm cruising at a slow 90 MPH 
in 5th with the A/C on I get around 17 miles to the gallon. Plus, I get 
about 11-13 miles per gallon in city driving when I don't lift the front 
end off the ground. Is that good?

Steve Sage

From fastsage at cox.net  Thu Jun 19 23:49:51 2008
From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:49:51 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars / Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <20080620025312.RSCI4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>
References: <20080620025312.RSCI4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <485B44FF.40603@cox.net>

Bill:
Of course you are right, and I have been aptly chastened (That's a big 
word I learned when I read a book once). Use it or lose it, so it's 
wheelie time for me!

Steve Sage



William Lau wrote:
> No it is not good if you don't lift the front end off the ground.  It is
> your responsibility to use all of your horsepower lest someone claim it is
> not necessary to have. -- Bill --
>
>
>
> Hey, I have a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger and when I'm cruising at a slow 90 MPH 
> in 5th with the A/C on I get around 17 miles to the gallon. Plus, I get 
> about 11-13 miles per gallon in city driving when I don't lift the front 
> end off the ground. Is that good?
>
> Steve Sage
>   





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From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Jun 20 03:44:32 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:44:32 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Fairmont Pulley
In-Reply-To: <485AFA0D.9020904@cs.com>
References: <485AFA0D.9020904@cs.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806200244s7a11283fh2be8ba50899067da@mail.gmail.com>

the MGB steering arms are used together with an MG midget rack and
some adapters that dale a. sells.  the whole job is relatively simple.

i have made this change and notice:
- no tire scrub
- easier and more precise adjustment of toe (straight track rods)
- quicker ratio steering

much happier with it.

if you have larger rotors you may run into problems with the steering
arms hitting the rotors.

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:30 AM, Randy Smith <RSSmithIQ at cs.com> wrote:
> Ok, at the risk of scorn for not searching the archives first, a quick
> question about the infamous Fairmont water pump pulley.  Does anyone
> remember the exact year(s) and model(s) for the water pump pulley that
> folks have been using?  Or even better, the Ford part number?  I'd love
> to track one down without dragging myself through all the local junk
> yards. I think it was a Fairmont, though someone said Fairlane to me also.
>
> I have another question too.  I believe that some folks have used "MG"
> (I think) steering arms to help correct the Ackerman angle.  Is that
> part of a more complex fix or can I just switch these and get some (mild
> form of) benefit?  If so, which arms am I looking for?
>
> Thanks- Randy
> --
>
> Randy Smith
> INNER QUEST, Inc.
> 34752 Charles Town Pike
> Purcellville, VA  20132
> 703-478-1078
> 540-668-6699
> 540-668-6253 fax
>
> InnerQuestOnline.com <http://www.innerquestonline.com/>
> RSSmithIQ at cs.com
> Tiger- B382000189
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
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>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From Rollright at aol.com  Fri Jun 20 07:43:24 2008
From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:43:24 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
Message-ID: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com>

Hello,
 
Just looked at the Classic Motorsports restoration of a Tiger.
 
He says he is using Redline Oil's Water Wetter.........for better heat  
transfer.
 
Anybody tried it?  Anybody see the Temp gauge go down? Or is it  wishful 
thinking..................................
 
Best regards,
 
Jim  Armstrong
Mk 1A 382002083
LRXFE



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 08:16:41 2008
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:16:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I use it in my SM racecar based on widespread use by other racers. No testing on my part.. but no problems either.

If you run antifreeze, I don't think I'd bother.


--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Rollright at aol.com <Rollright at aol.com> wrote:

> From: Rollright at aol.com <Rollright at aol.com>
>  
> Just looked at the Classic Motorsports restoration of a
> Tiger.
>  
> He says he is using Redline Oil's Water
> Wetter.........for better heat  
> transfer.
>  
> Anybody tried it?  Anybody see the Temp gauge go down? Or
> is it  wishful 
> thinking..................................

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Jun 20 08:48:48 2008
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:48:48 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com>
	<498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>

what kind of water is best to use with antifreeze/coolant?  plain tap
water or filtered water?  the water is pretty hard where i live.

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Stephen Waybright
<gswaybright at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I use it in my SM racecar based on widespread use by other racers. No testing on my part.. but no problems either.
>
> If you run antifreeze, I don't think I'd bother.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Rollright at aol.com <Rollright at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Rollright at aol.com <Rollright at aol.com>
>>
>> Just looked at the Classic Motorsports restoration of a
>> Tiger.
>>
>> He says he is using Redline Oil's Water
>> Wetter.........for better heat
>> transfer.
>>
>> Anybody tried it?  Anybody see the Temp gauge go down? Or
>> is it  wishful
>> thinking..................................
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
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>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From awtiger at cox.net  Fri Jun 20 08:55:08 2008
From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:55:08 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080620105508.3AMF3.345327.imail@eastrmwml31>

I use ONLY distilled water in my racing Alpine.  We are not allowed to run anti-freeze so I just put in some Prestone anti-rust additive to keep the cooling system from rusting up on me.  In fact, I only use distilled water in all of my cars.  As for Water-Wetter, I ran it in the Alpine at first but stopped running it after I rebuilt the motor.  I've seen no difference with or without it.  The fellow from whom I bought my Tiger years ago ran it in the Tiger but, when I changed the anti-freeze the first time, I didn't put it back in.  Again, I saw no difference.  Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on it.

Andy Walker
B382001600LRXFE
B9006857LRX

---- Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote: 
> what kind of water is best to use with antifreeze/coolant?  plain tap
> water or filtered water?  the water is pretty hard where i live.

From cmccann at lwpb.com  Fri Jun 20 08:58:40 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:58:40 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <20080620105508.3AMF3.345327.imail@eastrmwml31>
References: <39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080620105508.3AMF3.345327.imail@eastrmwml31>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473309751D9C@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

"............ Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on it."


I agree with Andy regarding the water wetter...back to my cooling on my
chevy...I used it several years ago per manufacturers recommendations and saw
no difference whatsoever.

Cullen

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Fri Jun 20 09:06:13 2008
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:06:13 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8d2e7$2eb79280$6601a8c0@Brennan>

I use distilled water, available at local pharmacies in gallon jugs for
cheap money.  This is NOT the same as "deionized" water.  I have noticed
less of that crusty crud that collects in the cooling system since
switching to this in all my cars.

That Water Wetter stuff, didn't we discuss this a few years back, with a
conclusion that it doesn't hurt anything, but there was little evidence
that if made a significant difference?

Stu

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Owain Lloyd
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 10:49 AM
To: gswaybright at yahoo.com
Cc: Rollright at aol.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not

what kind of water is best to use with antifreeze/coolant?  plain tap
water or filtered water?  the water is pretty hard where i live.

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Stephen Waybright
<gswaybright at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I use it in my SM racecar based on widespread use by other racers. No
testing on my part.. but no problems either.
>
> If you run antifreeze, I don't think I'd bother.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Rollright at aol.com <Rollright at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Rollright at aol.com <Rollright at aol.com>
>>
>> Just looked at the Classic Motorsports restoration of a
>> Tiger.
>>
>> He says he is using Redline Oil's Water
>> Wetter.........for better heat
>> transfer.
>>
>> Anybody tried it?  Anybody see the Temp gauge go down? Or
>> is it  wishful
>> thinking..................................
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
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From sganz at pacbell.net  Fri Jun 20 09:06:13 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
Message-ID: <407994.55866.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have used it with good results, but not all can be attributed to the water
wetter. I used to run anti-freeze in the race car and due to the smallish
radiator in the summer was always up in temp around the 230 mark on the track.
I got a bottle of it and drained the cooling system of antifreeze and filled
it with distilled water and redline water wetter and in similar conditions
lost about 10 degrees (not scientific, just where it seems to run). I was
using standard prestone type antifreeze, but water is a better heat conductor
and as I don't have an Iron engine in the car so was less worried about the
rust inhibitors etc. The watter wetter bottle mentions it is less effective
with antifreeze so might help but not as much. It also seems just like some
type of soapish substance, slick to touch, and I guess the magic is it reduces
surface tension. 
Sean - Can I use water wetter and get away with polish head?
Just kidding of course!
P.S. Most tracks will be pissed off if you are running
anti-freeze and have a problem, the track workers I was talking with said that
they would rather clean an oil slick then antifreeze as the oil is much easier
to get up.


----- Original Message ----
From: "Rollright at aol.com"
<Rollright at aol.com>
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008
6:43:24 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not

Hello,

Just looked at the
Classic Motorsports restoration of a Tiger.

He says he is using Redline Oil's
Water Wetter..........for better heat  
transfer.

Anybody tried it?  Anybody
see the Temp gauge go down? Or is it  wishful
thinking...................................

Best regards,

Jim  Armstrong
Mk
1A 382002083
LRXFE



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL
Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.     
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
_______________________________________________
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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Fri Jun 20 09:30:20 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:30:20 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Fairmont Pulley (Steering arms)
References: <485AFA0D.9020904@cs.com>
Message-ID: <00b601c8d2ea$8c94ee90$0202a8c0@student2>

I would add that one doesn't necessarily have to machine the arms.  The 
issues is that there is a slight displacement on the bolt holes on the 
spindle and those on the arm.  A small amount of time with a round file 
takes care of the matter.  I can't remember which way the displacement was. 
But, if the spacing is too long file the front hole. If it is too short file 
the back hole.  What that will do is make the arms ever so slightly forward, 
which while minor, is still a move in the right direction.
 Tom 
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11:52 AM

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Fri Jun 20 08:35:26 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:35:26 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d2e7$2eb79280$6601a8c0@Brennan>
References: <39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c8d2e7$2eb79280$6601a8c0@Brennan>
Message-ID: <000701c8d2e2$e1f0b6b0$a5d22410$@rr.com>

If you think that you need a product like Water-wetter, then you need to
take a look at your cooling system.  Water-wetter, if it did work, is just a
band aide for a bigger problem.

I also use only distilled water and minimal anti-freeze.  Pure distilled
water cools the best.  Anti-freeze actually reduces the cooling capacity of
the fluid, the less the better.  My tiger runs at 180 regardless of driving
conditions.

From jhef101 at aol.com  Fri Jun 20 10:08:26 2008
From: jhef101 at aol.com (jhef101 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:08:26 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CAA10701BCEB66-129C-2F4E@webmail-me12.sysops.aol.com>

Years ago when I ran my Tiger in Arizona I tried Water Wetter, I saw no difference in coolant temps when doing so. I ended up installing a Ron Davis aluminum radiator which solved most of the cooling issues. 

Jeff Hefner
B9470028


-----Original Message-----
From: Rollright at aol.com
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Sent: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 9:43 am
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not



Hello,
 
Just looked at the Classic Motorsports restoration of a Tiger.
 
He says he is using Redline Oil's Water Wetter.........for better heat  
transfer.
 
Anybody tried it?  Anybody see the Temp gauge go down? Or is it  wishful 
thinking..................................
 
Best regards,
 
Jim  Armstrong
Mk 1A 382002083
LRXFE



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
You are subscribed as jhef101 at aol.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
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From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Fri Jun 20 10:07:29 2008
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:07:29 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Nano cars with motorcycle engines
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16419.1213930378.1200.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <OFD849C225.D4BC51D4-ON8825746E.00587D66-8825746E.005893E8@countrywide.com>

I didn't see this come through.  So, I'm sending it again:


Here is the article I read:  
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-throttle11-2008jun11,0,3268856.story

It says that motorcycles account for 3.6% of registered vehicles, 1% of 
miles travelled, but 10% of the smog causing emissions.  Note that it's 
not just carbon monoxide, but oxides of nitrogen creating this problem.

More to the point, it concludes with the following shocker: "Motorcycles, 
even small ones, are more polluting than Hummers, but it's the best that 
can be done for now."

Jay

======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

======================================================================

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Fri Jun 20 10:37:19 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:37:19 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d267$5166b890$f43429b0$@net.au>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com>
	<485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com><F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<000001c8d267$5166b890$f43429b0$@net.au>
Message-ID: <000001c8d2f3$e86d1d10$fbcac24a@jerry>

EIGHT LUG NUTS?? What were they thinking?

Jerry Christopherosn

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Wally Menke
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:51 PM
To: 'Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)'; drmayf at mayfco.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars

Talking about Nano cars, we had an episode of Top Gear hear on Monday night
which had a brilliant segment on a Peel P50 microcar. You can see it on the
link below and see how 6'5" Jeremy Clarkson folds himself up to fit into
this thing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqf1yKxb9hI


Wally Menke
You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

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From csx2282 at sonic.net  Fri Jun 20 10:42:10 2008
From: csx2282 at sonic.net (CSX2282)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:42:10 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
Message-ID: <002601c8d2f4$95f39180$220110ac@ALLOFUS>

>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:43:24 EDT
>From: Rollright at aol.com
>Hello,

>Just looked at the Classic Motorsports restoration of a Tiger.

>He says he is using Redline Oil's Water Wetter.........for better heat
>transfer.

>Anybody tried it?  Anybody see the Temp gauge go down? Or is it  wishful
>thinking..................................

>Best regards,

>Jim  Armstrong
>Mk 1A 382002083
>LRXFE

Jim,

I posted the following to another list about 5 years ago.  Rather than doing
a
re-write I'm doing a copy and paste.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------
There isn't universal agreement on the effectiveness of WaterWetter and
like products.

A number of years ago I was visiting a shop that was doing some
machine work for a motor rebuild.  There was a guy ahead of me
being waited on by the shop's owner.  This guy had a set of 351W Ford
heads he was dropping off for some work.  He was showing the shop
owner some serpentine shaped etch marks around the water jacket
passage holes and asked what might have caused them.  The shop
owner asked him if he used WaterWetter, and the guy replied that, yes
he did.  The shop owner commented that he had seen similar marks
around the water passage holes of other engines he had worked on
that had used WaterWetter in the coolant.

Since I had also been using WaterWetter, after this guy had left, I asked
the owner if he thought it was a bad idea to use it.  He said he didn't
know if it caused any great harm, but he did comment that he had talked
to a another shop owner that made custom radiators for him.  One of the
companies this shop bought products from had run tests on all of the
radiator additives then on the market and that none of them provided any
additional cooling benefits.

I admit that I didn't see this data, so this is literarily third hand
information, but I did see the etch marks I mentioned.  Based on this alone,
I stopped using WaterWetter.

One other comment about WaterWetter.  At the time I was using it, was
sold in two forms- crystals and liquid.  Supposedly the crystalline form
had corrosion inhibitors and lubricants for water pump bushings.  The liquid
form was meant as a supplement to a water/antifreeze mix and did not have
lubricants.  This was quite a few years ago, so maybe the liquid
formulation has changed since then.  At the time I was running just water and
had
trouble finding the crystalline form so I used the liquid and added a
lubricant
to the mix.  If you are running just water and WaterWetter, you might want to
check into this.

Currently I use about a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water in a
mildly
tuned engine and am not experiencing any overheating problems.

Roland

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 20 11:00:16 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:00:16 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not   -  Snake Oil Yes!
Message-ID: <001101c8d2f7$1da88e80$6501a8c0@your03667082de>

Put my vote in the "don't waste your money" column.  I tried it several years
ago and stopped using it and there was no noticeable difference in engine
cooling.  One of the street rod or performance mags came to the same
conclusion several years ago and said so in a article.  Follow the
recommendations listed in the Tigers Alpines East web site for cooling tips.


                                                                             
                               Jeff

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Fri Jun 20 11:01:06 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:01:06 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000201c8d2f7$3a9ef470$fbcac24a@jerry>

I used it on mine, can't say it had any effect at all that I could see.

Jerry Christopherson 

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Rollright at aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 8:43 AM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not

Hello,
 
Just looked at the Classic Motorsports restoration of a Tiger.
 
He says he is using Redline Oil's Water Wetter.........for better heat  
transfer.
 
Anybody tried it?  Anybody see the Temp gauge go down? Or is it  wishful 
thinking..................................
 
Best regards,
 
Jim  Armstrong
Mk 1A 382002083
LRXFE



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
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From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Fri Jun 20 11:11:06 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:11:06 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com><498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c8d2f8$a0be0830$fbcac24a@jerry>

Owain,

As everyone is saying distilled is best, however checking the pH is also
important if you have aluminum in the cooling system (heads,
radiator,waterpump), if I'm not mistaken pH should be around 7.0 to keep
corrosion to a minimum.

Jerry Christopherson  

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Owain Lloyd
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:49 AM
To: gswaybright at yahoo.com
Cc: Rollright at aol.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not

what kind of water is best to use with antifreeze/coolant?  plain tap
water or filtered water?  the water is pretty hard where i live.

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Stephen Waybright
<gswaybright at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I use it in my SM racecar based on widespread use by other racers. No
testing on my part.. but no problems either.
>
> If you run antifreeze, I don't think I'd bother.
>
>
> --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Rollright at aol.com <Rollright at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Rollright at aol.com <Rollright at aol.com>
>>
>> Just looked at the Classic Motorsports restoration of a
>> Tiger.
>>
>> He says he is using Redline Oil's Water
>> Wetter.........for better heat
>> transfer.
>>
>> Anybody tried it?  Anybody see the Temp gauge go down? Or
>> is it  wishful
>> thinking..................................
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
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From cmccann at lwpb.com  Fri Jun 20 11:29:38 2008
From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:29:38 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <000301c8d2f8$a0be0830$fbcac24a@jerry>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com><498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301c8d2f8$a0be0830$fbcac24a@jerry>
Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473324518D6B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>

Jerry,

If the ph level is not at 7.0, what can you do to correct it? Is there an
additive or a solution to maintain that ph level?

Cullen
'1452

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Fri Jun 20 11:56:44 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:56:44 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473324518D6B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com><498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com><39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com><000301c8d2f8$a0be0830$fbcac24a@jerry>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473324518D6B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <000001c8d2ff$00b2f240$fbcac24a@jerry>

List,

Well after talking to a friend of mine who researched all this.

First of all it isn't 7.0 as I said, its .7 and distilled water is around
.5. 
And it's the old acid base thing, to raise the number (more base) things
like antifreeze, Royal Purple water wetter, will raise the number.
Apparently it doesn't take much to raise the number; my friend said he used
only about 1/2 a bottle of Royal Purple to get his up to the .7 mark.
A kit for measuring pH is available at Wal-Mart or other pool stores as a
pool pH kit very cheep.  
If per chance your water is very acid then baking soda is the way to get it
down.

Hope this helps.

Jerry Christopherson

  
-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Cullen McCann
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:30 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not

Jerry,

If the ph level is not at 7.0, what can you do to correct it? Is there an
additive or a solution to maintain that ph level?

Cullen
'1452
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From drmoonstone at aol.com  Fri Jun 20 12:09:16 2008
From: drmoonstone at aol.com (drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:09:16 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Electric Water Pump
In-Reply-To: <061920081940.8001.485AB623000B9F2B00001F412215551724CD03979B@comcast.net>
References: <061920081940.8001.485AB623000B9F2B00001F412215551724CD03979B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8CAA117E21895F1-10D8-5C5@WEBMAIL-NB01.sysops.aol.com>

I'm thinking about it but have not gone very far with it yet.

Moonstone









Is anyone out there in Tiger land using an electric water pump?

Thanks in advance

Tym McDowell

From drmoonstone at aol.com  Fri Jun 20 12:31:31 2008
From: drmoonstone at aol.com (drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:31:31 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <407994.55866.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <407994.55866.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CAA11AFEB4C528-10D8-731@WEBMAIL-NB01.sysops.aol.com>

Sure, it's good for not leaving spots when you wash those pretty polished heads. Remember don't do it in the sun, it's so efficent that you might vaporize from the reflected heat! LOL

Sean




Sean - Can I use water wetter and get away with polish head?
Just kidding of course!
P.S. Most tracks will be pissed off if you are running
anti-freeze and have a problem, the track workers I was talking with said that
they would rather clean an oil slick then antifreeze as the oil is much easier
to get up.

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Fri Jun 20 12:31:44 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:31:44 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F0BD@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Hi all,
pH of a water solution ranges from 0 to 14. 7.0 is neutral and less than
7 is acidic; higher is basic.
Why would distilled water be acidic? The water bottlers may add ozone to
sterilize the water, but it seems to me that they'd have to really work
at it to bring the pH down to 5. Wikipedia says it's dissolved CO2 that
causes distilled water to go slightly below 7.0, but not by how much:
http://waterontheweb.org/under/waterquality/ph.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water

I've always run 50:50 antifreeze and water, even when I was racing. You
never know when it's going to get cold outside and freeze things. The
main benefit that you want to get (other than freezing protection) from
any cooling system additive is corrosion inhibiting, which means that
maybe the best thing you can add to your coolant is a chunk of magnesium
or zinc... And then flush and refill once a year or so.

Cheers,
Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Jerry
Sent: June 20, 2008 11:57 AM
To: 'Cullen McCann'; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not

List,

Well after talking to a friend of mine who researched all this.

First of all it isn't 7.0 as I said, its .7 and distilled water is
around .5.
<snip>

Jerry Christopherson

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun 20 12:36:14 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:36:14 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <000201c8d2f7$3a9ef470$fbcac24a@jerry>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com>
	<000201c8d2f7$3a9ef470$fbcac24a@jerry>
Message-ID: <485BF89E.1040108@SoCal.rr.com>

Guys (and gals),

    /Note. Isn't it strange that the current crop of young people seem
    to use the word "guys" to apply to any group of contemporaries, male
    and/or female.  "Guy" was a common reference, in England, for male
    "serfs".  Some male serfs even had surnames of "Guy"./

Anyway, a few comments on additives.

    * Most oil additives are redundant to the original oil manufacturers
      additives.
    * Antifreeze (good) has properties that raise the boiling point, as
      well as lowering the freezing point, and can be beneficial year round.
    * I used to use a milky white additive to remove deposited rust from
      the water passages. Can' remember the name, but it really seemed
      to work.
    * Besides, some snakes object to being milked, and it is a hazardous
      profession extracting it.

My $0.02 cents worth - although 2" doesn't go very far.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Jerry wrote:
> I used it on mine, can't say it had any effect at all that I could see.
>
> Jerry Christopherson 

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun 20 12:53:58 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:53:58 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473324518D6B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com><498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301c8d2f8$a0be0830$fbcac24a@jerry>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473324518D6B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <485BFCC6.1090007@SoCal.rr.com>

Cullen, OM,

Distilled (not "spring" or "deionized" water)"

Stu Brennan said:

/"I use distilled water, available at local pharmacies in gallon jugs for
cheap money.  This is NOT the same as "deionized" water.  I have noticed
less of that crusty crud that collects in the cooling system since
switching to this in all my cars."
/

I have found it in larger "supermarkets", hidden amongst other large 
bottled waters.

I would not recommend "titration" with acids or bases and Ph testers 
(orangeish paper test strips at Swimming Pool retailers). But is a good 
way of knowing where you are.  7.0 is the target (neutral).


Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Cullen McCann wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> If the ph level is not at 7.0, what can you do to correct it? Is there an
> additive or a solution to maintain that ph level?
>
> Cullen
> '1452
> ______________________________________________

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun 20 12:58:21 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:58:21 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d2ff$00b2f240$fbcac24a@jerry>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com><498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com><39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com><000301c8d2f8$a0be0830$fbcac24a@jerry>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473324518D6B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
	<000001c8d2ff$00b2f240$fbcac24a@jerry>
Message-ID: <485BFDCD.8030202@SoCal.rr.com>

Jerry,

Sorry, but 7.0 is correct for neutral (acid vs base) Ph.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Jerry wrote:
> List,
>
> Well after talking to a friend of mine who researched all this.
>
> First of all it isn't 7.0 as I said, its .7 and distilled water is around
> .5. 
>
> Jerry Christopherson

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Fri Jun 20 13:47:59 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:47:59 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
In-Reply-To: <485BFDCD.8030202@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <c81.2c8e4c62.358d0dfc@aol.com><498793.28473.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com><39a841b0806200748i502afff9q63a1b295a0f2e5cc@mail.gmail.com><000301c8d2f8$a0be0830$fbcac24a@jerry>
	<4419C83983D4FB47AADD68470906473324518D6B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>
	<000001c8d2ff$00b2f240$fbcac24a@jerry> <485BFDCD.8030202@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8d30e$8b413b10$fbcac24a@jerry>

Yup, you're right. See what happens when you talk to your "friends". Ha.

Shuda stayed with my first thought.


Jerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Laifman [mailto:SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 1:58 PM
To: Jerry
Cc: 'Cullen McCann'; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not

Jerry,

Sorry, but 7.0 is correct for neutral (acid vs base) Ph.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Jerry wrote:
> List,
>
> Well after talking to a friend of mine who researched all this.
>
> First of all it isn't 7.0 as I said, its .7 and distilled water is around
> .5. 
>
> Jerry Christopherson

From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 11:28:55 2008
From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:28:55 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d2f3$e86d1d10$fbcac24a@jerry>
References: <ce8.34657afa.35898b6e@aol.com> <485839D2.8090004@mayfco.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04CD2B4B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<000001c8d267$5166b890$f43429b0$@net.au>
	<000001c8d2f3$e86d1d10$fbcac24a@jerry>
Message-ID: <$VzCU2JXj+WIFwth@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>

Jerry,


thats obvious.

10 lug nuts is down to the lawn mower they came off.

if you take a look at this film of them :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07ub5rBdrE4&feature=related

you will see the registration on one ends in a C - that means it s a 65 
car and the same year as TIGERS hit the road - one extreme to the other 
!


the flying saucer top ones are cool !

regards

Jeff









In message <000001c8d2f3$e86d1d10$fbcac24a at jerry>, Jerry 
<JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net> writes
>EIGHT LUG NUTS?? What were they thinking?
>
>Jerry Christopherosn
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
>[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
>Wally Menke
>Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:51 PM
>To: 'Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)'; drmayf at mayfco.com
>Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Tigers] Nano Cars
>
>Talking about Nano cars, we had an episode of Top Gear hear on Monday night
>which had a brilliant segment on a Peel P50 microcar. You can see it on the
>link below and see how 6'5" Jeremy Clarkson folds himself up to fit into
>this thing!
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqf1yKxb9hI
>
>
>Wally Menke
>You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
>http://www.team.net/archive
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>You are subscribed as jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk
>
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>
>http://www.team.net/archive
>

-- 
Jeff Howarth

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Fri Jun 20 19:22:31 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:22:31 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
Message-ID: <000001c8d33d$4731a200$fbcac24a@jerry>

List,

 

Well, just saw the movie Get Smart. If you set aside all reality and
understand that it's (and always was) a spoof on all kinds of spy,
espionage, intelligence-type movies.

then you might enjoy the movie. I enjoyed it.  And Ann Hathaway isn't that
hard to look at either. But that's just my opinion.

 

The Tiger scene is a bit short, but I think he had the old SU fuel pump
problem.  The shots of the Ghia, and Opel were a bit longer, but all were
too short.  It would be nice if this raises the value of our Tigers, but I'm
afraid the exposure was too short to have much effect.

 

Jerry Christopherson 

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Fri Jun 20 18:35:41 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:35:41 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger cameo
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d33d$4731a200$fbcac24a@jerry>
References: <000001c8d33d$4731a200$fbcac24a@jerry>
Message-ID: <000301c8d336$bc166c60$34434520$@rr.com>

I just saw it too.

Funny movie.  Big disappointment on the Tiger (Alpine) exposure.  The car no
sooner starts (sounding like a 4 banger) than it breaks down and a Ghia is
its replacement.  Will do nothing for our cars image.

Duke

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jerry
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:23 PM
To: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)

List,

 

Well, just saw the movie Get Smart. If you set aside all reality and
understand that it's (and always was) a spoof on all kinds of spy,
espionage, intelligence-type movies.

then you might enjoy the movie. I enjoyed it.  And Ann Hathaway isn't that
hard to look at either. But that's just my opinion.

 

The Tiger scene is a bit short, but I think he had the old SU fuel pump
problem.  The shots of the Ghia, and Opel were a bit longer, but all were
too short.  It would be nice if this raises the value of our Tigers, but I'm
afraid the exposure was too short to have much effect.

 

Jerry Christopherson 
You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com

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From Sjhcobra1 at cs.com  Fri Jun 20 19:44:25 2008
From: Sjhcobra1 at cs.com (Sjhcobra1 at cs.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:44:25 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
Message-ID: <4D115770.7D6EB7D1.028BE4CD@cs.com>

I typically run about a50/50 mix of distiller water and antifreeze satisfactorily.

Steve Halbrook

From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Jun 20 20:20:32 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:20:32 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
Message-ID: <c3a.38c2b03a.358dbf70@aol.com>

It would  be nice if this raises the value of our Tigers, but I'm
afraid the exposure  was too short to have much effect.



Probably the Subway campaign will have more  effect:-)
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Fri Jun 20 20:24:46 2008
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:24:46 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] More Snake oil
Message-ID: <cb5.35cb5829.358dc06e@aol.com>

I posted this eons agao but its still true.
 
 
BEWARE OF 'GREEN  GOO' 
I  worked for the largest specialty chemical company in the country whose 
business  has 
involved boiler and water treatment for decades. Here is what our  chemists 
have found: 
If  you heat antifreeze that contains silicon (such as Prestone) above 210 deg
rees,  when 
it  cools down, the silicon precipitates with the minerals in the water.  
After a period  of 
time,  all the silicon will  have  precipitated and only the glycol is left 
in solution.  This 
protects the car from freezing, but the precipitates form on the water  
jackets preventing 
efficient heat transfer, may harm the water pump, and clog the  radiator.  
Also  the 
silicon is not longer present to prevent corrosion between the dissimilar  
metals in the  
engine.  Look under your  radiator cap.  See that funny  looking green stuff? 
 We 
call  it the 'GREEN GOO'.  Say 'THANK YOU'  to Mr. Prestone. 
By  topping up with more antifreeze, you are just adding more silicon to the 
system  to  
precipitate out.  By flushing  your radiator and refilling with fresh 
antifreeze only  adds 
to  the precipitate problem by giving it more silicon and tap water to make  
precipitate  
from.  The precipitates are not water soluble  and flushing will not remove 
them. 
Eventually your cooling system will fall victim to the 'GREEN  GOO'. 
Therefore whenever you change your antifreeze, you must use a good  chemical 
flush to  
purge  your cooling system of the precipitates.  A 'quick' flush or power 
flush will not 
do it  since they are mechanical flushes.  One  product 'COOL PREP' is  
especially good  
for  cleaning a cooling system.  You add  it to your coolant and drive with 
it for a week 
and  then flush the cooling system.  This  product will dissolve all 
precipitates so they  
can  flushed.  It may be too good.  Any small leaks that were plugged by  
corrosion will  
be  free to leak again.  This includes  heater cores, etc. 
Refill with fresh antifreeze and clean water, leaving room for another  
product called  
'COOL  TECH 2'.  This product originally  was developed for nuclear steam 
plants and  
prevents the silicon from precipitating.  By staying in solution, silicon 
provides  the  
dissimilar metal protection, lubricates the water pump, maintains good  heat 
transfer 
in  the engine water jackets, AND avoids the dreaded 'GREEN GOO'.  It costs  
less 
than  a dollar.  In theory since the  silicon remains in solution, and 
ethylene gycol  
never  wears out, the antifreeze should be good forever. 
In line coolant filters provide extra  protection. 
Also remember your coolant does not raise the  boiling point.  That's is what 
the 
radiator cap does.  3 degrees per lb.  Boiling  point with a 13 lb cap is 212 
+ 39 =  241.



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
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From macdonald49 at shaw.ca  Fri Jun 20 21:26:56 2008
From: macdonald49 at shaw.ca (Peter MacDonald)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:26:56 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam but not Tiger related
Message-ID: <94E24DB4-D2E5-4E9D-94AF-80EC72335AF9@shaw.ca>

Fellow listers:

In the process of cleaning out my parents' basement, I came across a  
Sunbeam toaster(60's?) and a Sunbeam Mixmaster(early!). For those of  
you that have to have everything Sunbeam in your world, these may  
interest you. If so, please let me know soon. If not, they will be  
off to Canadian Diabetes, Big Brothers or someone similar.

Please contact me off list. Thanks.

Peter MacDonald

From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Fri Jun 20 21:31:03 2008
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:31:03 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] More Snake oil
Message-ID: <d00.33ef9947.358dcff7@aol.com>

The chemists recommend a 50-50 mix of mineral free water and  antifreeze.
Mineral free does not mean distilled.  They also said that commercial  
distilled
water tends to be slight acidic.  The antifreeze is needed to  lubricate the
water pump and prevent freezing.  Don't forget the needed CoolTec2  to
prevent the silicates from participating.  
 
Cooltec2 has silver azide in it which keeps the silicates in a soluble  form.
It comes in a 12 oz bottle and treats up to 12 gallons.  One  bottle will
do 2 Tigers.
 
Actually they said that the best cooling solution is all water.  All  water 
has the
greatest heat transfer.  But that has some disadvantages,  No  water pump 
lubricant. 
No freezing protection. But all water is the best for cooling.  So if  
freezing is not a problem,
all water with a can of water pump lubricant.  Also annually use  a cleaner 
to remove the scale.
 
I believe that some of the listers that were racing, said they used 100%  
water. But
they didn't race in the winter.
 
The in-line coolant filters are also a good idea.
 
Green Goo is nasty stuff.  It participates out into insoluble  silicates 
which can act
as abrasives on the pump and seals.  Radiator shops can show you  radiators 
that are
so plugged that no amount of flushing removes the stuff.  Of course  the 
silicates are
insoluble.  Customers say 'But I flush every year'.  Yep they  sure do.  
Adding a fresh
batch of silicon to make more silicates.
 
In theory, the eythylene glycohol in antifreeze never wears out.  It's  the 
lubricants that do
And the slicone particates out.  Most shops flush and fill with used  
antifreeze.  They
filter the old, add lubricant, and silicone and it back in your car.   Not in 
my car.
 
 
 
In a message dated 6/20/2008 9:43:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
tigerlat70 at comcast.net writes:

What do  you recommend from this to us Tiger group?
Good  info
Steve





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http://www.team.net/archive


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3:21  PM






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From awtiger at cox.net  Fri Jun 20 21:34:09 2008
From: awtiger at cox.net (Andy Walker)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:34:09 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger cameo
In-Reply-To: <000301c8d336$bc166c60$34434520$@rr.com>
References: <000001c8d33d$4731a200$fbcac24a@jerry>
	<000301c8d336$bc166c60$34434520$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <A47D638898F146DE825016BE374E21B8@awtigerPC>

Yep...my wife and I just got back from seeing "Get Smart," too.  Let me echo 
the other three posters when I say that, for those of you who were hoping 
for a big boost in the image and value of the Tiger like the '67 Shelbys 
experienced after "Gone in 60 Seconds," you're in for a big disappointment. 
The Tiger only shows up in two scenes, none of which is particularly 
flattering, and both of which were too short and totally inconsequential. 
Being a fan of the original series, I was a little (just slightly) 
disappointed in the movie; it just didn't have the laughs that the original 
series had.  It was entertaining, nonetheless.

Driving my Tiger and "loving it,"
Andy Walker
Edmond, OK
B381001600LRXFE
B9006857LRX

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Duke Samouce" <wsamouce at kc.rr.com>
To: <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 7:35 PM
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger cameo


>I just saw it too.
>
> Funny movie.  Big disappointment on the Tiger (Alpine) exposure.  The car 
> no
> sooner starts (sounding like a 4 banger) than it breaks down and a Ghia is
> its replacement.  Will do nothing for our cars image.
>
> Duke
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net
> [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of 
> Jerry
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:23 PM
> To: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET
> Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
>
> List,
>
>
>
> Well, just saw the movie Get Smart. If you set aside all reality and
> understand that it's (and always was) a spoof on all kinds of spy,
> espionage, intelligence-type movies.
>
> then you might enjoy the movie. I enjoyed it.  And Ann Hathaway isn't that
> hard to look at either. But that's just my opinion.
>
>
>
> The Tiger scene is a bit short, but I think he had the old SU fuel pump
> problem.  The shots of the Ghia, and Opel were a bit longer, but all were
> too short.  It would be nice if this raises the value of our Tigers, but 
> I'm
> afraid the exposure was too short to have much effect.
>
>
>
> Jerry Christopherson
> You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From chris at cthompson.net  Fri Jun 20 21:42:55 2008
From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:42:55 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger cameo
In-Reply-To: <A47D638898F146DE825016BE374E21B8@awtigerPC>
References: <000001c8d33d$4731a200$fbcac24a@jerry>
	<000301c8d336$bc166c60$34434520$@rr.com>
	<A47D638898F146DE825016BE374E21B8@awtigerPC>
Message-ID: <485C78BF.20805@cthompson.net>

Get Smart may well be one of the reasons our cars get no respect.  It 
would have been different if James Bond had driven a Tiger.  The Tiger 
was (mistakenly) used as the "spoof" of a sports car in the *spoof* of 
the James Bond genre that was Get Smart.

But I always liked Get Smart better than James Bond anyway, so I'm cool 
with that ;-)

Regards,

Chris


Andy Walker wrote:
> Yep...my wife and I just got back from seeing "Get Smart," too.  Let me echo 
> the other three posters when I say that, for those of you who were hoping 
> for a big boost in the image and value of the Tiger like the '67 Shelbys 
> experienced after "Gone in 60 Seconds," you're in for a big disappointment. 
> The Tiger only shows up in two scenes, none of which is particularly 
> flattering, and both of which were too short and totally inconsequential. 
> Being a fan of the original series, I was a little (just slightly) 
> disappointed in the movie; it just didn't have the laughs that the original 
> series had.  It was entertaining, nonetheless.
>
> Driving my Tiger and "loving it,"
> Andy Walker
> Edmond, OK
> B381001600LRXFE
> B9006857LRX

From csx2282 at sonic.net  Fri Jun 20 22:07:38 2008
From: csx2282 at sonic.net (CSX2282)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:07:38 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Snake Oil or not
References: <mailman.16536.1214012651.1200.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <00b801c8d354$587e87a0$220110ac@ALLOFUS>

As mentioned in a previous response, I use a mixture of 50/50% distilled
water and antifreeze.

One response I saw recommend the use of distilled rather than deioniozed
water.  I have yet to see a description of the difference between the two or
why one is preferable.  I'd be very interested in knowing what the
difference is.  Also,  keep in mind that the instance you pour ion free
water, of whatever type, into your cooling system, it will instantly become
ionized.  These ions come from the various metals in your cooling system-
copper (brass), aluminum and iron, etc.

Roland

From fastsage at cox.net  Fri Jun 20 22:47:33 2008
From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:47:33 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Holley Gasket Sealing
Message-ID: <485C87E5.7090506@cox.net>

Hello Sunbeamers:
The Tiger is just about ready for the trip to Tiger's United next week.

I am thinking of re-installing my Adjust A Jet plate on my Holley carb. 
For anyone who doesn't know, you take out the jets and add the Adjust A 
Jet plate between the fuel bowl and the metering plate. The kit gives 
you longer bolts and a longer accelerator pump lever to cover the added 
distance. The idea is that now you can adjust your jet size with the 
engine running by just turning the Adjust A Jet valve with a screw 
driver. When you're at high altitude and need to, just lean it out a 
bit. When you get back down to lower altitude, just turn the valve back 
the other way. No more taking the carb apart  to change jets.

Last time I messed up the Adjust A Jet install by tightening the longer 
fuel bowl bolts too much (since I couldn't get the gasket to seal) which 
distorted the gaskets and forced material into the accelerator pump 
vacuum passage, which really messed things up. I reverted back to the 
stock Holley set up but I had to take the carb apart, clean it out, and 
install new gaskets. It's running great again but I would like to try 
the Adjust A Jet again.

What's the best way to get those Holley fuel bowls to seal properly, and 
know you haven't tightened things too much? With the Adjust A Jet there 
are two gaskets to seal; the original, and the second, unique gasket 
between the Adjust A Jet and the metering block.

Steve Sage




E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
Database version: 5.10090e
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/

From achd73 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 23:32:43 2008
From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:32:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Holley Gasket Sealing
In-Reply-To: <485C87E5.7090506@cox.net>
Message-ID: <120263.39783.qm@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dont over torque when tightening AND I would buy an extra set of gaskets to take with- that way you wont need them BUT go witout a spare set and see if you are lucky enough someone else has some. TTT


--- On Fri, 6/20/08, Steve Sage <fastsage at cox.net> wrote:

> From: Steve Sage <fastsage at cox.net>
> Subject: [Tigers] Holley Gasket Sealing
> To: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET
> Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 11:47 PM
> Hello Sunbeamers:
> The Tiger is just about ready for the trip to Tiger's
> United next week.
> 
> I am thinking of re-installing my Adjust A Jet plate on my
> Holley carb. 
> For anyone who doesn't know, you take out the jets and
> add the Adjust A 
> Jet plate between the fuel bowl and the metering plate. The
> kit gives 
> you longer bolts and a longer accelerator pump lever to
> cover the added 
> distance. The idea is that now you can adjust your jet size
> with the 
> engine running by just turning the Adjust A Jet valve with
> a screw 
> driver. When you're at high altitude and need to, just
> lean it out a 
> bit. When you get back down to lower altitude, just turn
> the valve back 
> the other way. No more taking the carb apart  to change
> jets.
> 
> Last time I messed up the Adjust A Jet install by
> tightening the longer 
> fuel bowl bolts too much (since I couldn't get the
> gasket to seal) which 
> distorted the gaskets and forced material into the
> accelerator pump 
> vacuum passage, which really messed things up. I reverted
> back to the 
> stock Holley set up but I had to take the carb apart, clean
> it out, and 
> install new gaskets. It's running great again but I
> would like to try 
> the Adjust A Jet again.
> 
> What's the best way to get those Holley fuel bowls to
> seal properly, and 
> know you haven't tightened things too much? With the
> Adjust A Jet there 
> are two gaskets to seal; the original, and the second,
> unique gasket 
> between the Adjust A Jet and the metering block.
> 
> Steve Sage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
> Database version: 5.10090e
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net  Fri Jun 20 23:57:19 2008
From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:57:19 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Holley Gasket Sealing
References: <485C87E5.7090506@cox.net>
Message-ID: <004901c8d363$ab34dad0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Steve,

I had the bright idea of running the Holley Adjust A Jets in our SCF race 
Tiger.

It worked fine on the dyno.

However, on the track the Adjust A Jet plates caused the engine to stall 
under hard braking (i.e. every turn). As driver John Morton told me, "You 
took something that didn't need fixing & fixed it & now it really needs 
fixing."

So, while everyone else went to a dinner party, I was back at the track late 
Saturday night swapping carbs & rejetting. That was the last time I messed 
with those plates.

Which brings me to this question: Have you used these before in an 
Autocross?

Buck Trippel


 ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Sage" <fastsage at cox.net>
To: <TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:47 PM
Subject: [Tigers] Holley Gasket Sealing


> Hello Sunbeamers:
> The Tiger is just about ready for the trip to Tiger's United next week.
>
> I am thinking of re-installing my Adjust A Jet plate on my Holley carb.
> For anyone who doesn't know, you take out the jets and add the Adjust A
> Jet plate between the fuel bowl and the metering plate. The kit gives
> you longer bolts and a longer accelerator pump lever to cover the added
> distance. The idea is that now you can adjust your jet size with the
> engine running by just turning the Adjust A Jet valve with a screw
> driver. When you're at high altitude and need to, just lean it out a
> bit. When you get back down to lower altitude, just turn the valve back
> the other way. No more taking the carb apart  to change jets.
>
> Last time I messed up the Adjust A Jet install by tightening the longer
> fuel bowl bolts too much (since I couldn't get the gasket to seal) which
> distorted the gaskets and forced material into the accelerator pump
> vacuum passage, which really messed things up. I reverted back to the
> stock Holley set up but I had to take the carb apart, clean it out, and
> install new gaskets. It's running great again but I would like to try
> the Adjust A Jet again.
>
> What's the best way to get those Holley fuel bowls to seal properly, and
> know you haven't tightened things too much? With the Adjust A Jet there
> are two gaskets to seal; the original, and the second, unique gasket
> between the Adjust A Jet and the metering block.
>
> Steve Sage

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 04:45:04 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:45:04 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Driving to TU XXXI
In-Reply-To: <004901c8d363$ab34dad0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <485C87E5.7090506@cox.net>
	<004901c8d363$ab34dad0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <000001c8d38b$dd912150$98b363f0$@rr.com>

Morning all,

I have seen a few post about guys getting their Tiger ready for TU next
week.  I am wondering who is driving some distance and where you are
starting from.

I am driving my Tiger from Kansas City which will be 1567 mile to the show.
I will be departing Kansas City at 0600 on the 25th and stopping at Grand
Junction, CO for some sleep.  Up around 0430 on the 26th for the final drive
into Big Bear hopping to arrive around 1200. I will be on I70 then I15.

Anyone else planning on a long drive?

Duke

From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Jun 21 05:54:54 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:54:54 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Driving to TU XXXI
Message-ID: <ccb.2c13c058.358e460e@aol.com>

If you do 1,500 miles in two days in a Tiger you deserve a  reward.
Mark L



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 04:53:22 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:53:22 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Driving to TU XXXI
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d38b$dd912150$98b363f0$@rr.com>
References: <485C87E5.7090506@cox.net>
	<004901c8d363$ab34dad0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<000001c8d38b$dd912150$98b363f0$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <000101c8d38d$0c928ec0$25b7ac40$@rr.com>

That's "hoping" ;>)

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Duke
Samouce
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:45 AM
To: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET
Subject: [Tigers] Driving to TU XXXI

Morning all,

I have seen a few post about guys getting their Tiger ready for TU next
week.  I am wondering who is driving some distance and where you are
starting from.

I am driving my Tiger from Kansas City which will be 1567 mile to the show.
I will be departing Kansas City at 0600 on the 25th and stopping at Grand
Junction, CO for some sleep.  Up around 0430 on the 26th for the final drive
into Big Bear hopping to arrive around 1200. I will be on I70 then I15.

Anyone else planning on a long drive?

Duke
You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 04:56:59 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:56:59 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Driving to TU XXXI
In-Reply-To: <ccb.2c13c058.358e460e@aol.com>
References: <ccb.2c13c058.358e460e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000501c8d38d$87b64ce0$9722e6a0$@rr.com>

Or to be committed.  I just finished the cruise control install yesterday
and that should help.  I also made a "ice cooler" A/C unit that will be on
the passenger floor.

 

Should be fun.  

 

Duke

 

From: CoolVT at aol.com [mailto:CoolVT at aol.com] 
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 7:55 AM
To: wsamouce at kc.rr.com; TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Driving to TU XXXI

 

If you do 1,500 miles in two days in a Tiger you deserve a reward.

Mark L





  _____  

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars
<http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007> .

From sunbeamjohn at msn.com  Sat Jun 21 11:27:15 2008
From: sunbeamjohn at msn.com (sunbeam john)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:27:15 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger cameo
In-Reply-To: <000301c8d336$bc166c60$34434520$@rr.com>
References: <000001c8d33d$4731a200$fbcac24a@jerry>
	<000301c8d336$bc166c60$34434520$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W24DE993D592BE97DBE6AF0A5A40@phx.gbl>

I agree not enough Tiger but pretty good movie.
John> From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com> To: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET> Date: Fri, 20 Jun
2008 20:35:41 -0400> Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger cameo> > I just saw it
too.> > Funny movie. Big disappointment on the Tiger (Alpine) exposure. The
car no> sooner starts (sounding like a 4 banger) than it breaks down and a
Ghia is> its replacement. Will do nothing for our cars image.> > Duke> >
-----Original Message-----> From:
tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net>
[mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jerry>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:23 PM> To: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET> Subject:
[Tigers] (no subject)> > List,> > > > Well, just saw the movie Get Smart. If
you set aside all reality and> understand that it's (and always was) a spoof
on all kinds of spy,> espionage, intelligence-type movies.> > then you might
enjoy the movie. I enjoyed it. And Ann Hathaway isn't that> hard to look at
either. But that's just my opinion.> > > > The Tiger scene is a bit short, but
I think he had the old SU fuel pump> problem. The shots of the Ghia, and Opel
were a bit longer, but all were> too short. It would be nice if this raises
the value of our Tigers, but I'm> afraid the exposure was too short to have
much effect.> > > > Jerry Christopherson > You are subscribed as
wsamouce at kc.rr.com> > Tigers at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers> > http://www.team.net/archive>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > You are subscribed as sunbeamjohn at msn.com>
> Tigers at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers> >
http://www.team.net/archive

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 11:58:56 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:58:56 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger cameo
In-Reply-To: <485C78BF.20805@cthompson.net>
References: <000001c8d33d$4731a200$fbcac24a@jerry>
	<000301c8d336$bc166c60$34434520$@rr.com>
	<A47D638898F146DE825016BE374E21B8@awtigerPC>
	<485C78BF.20805@cthompson.net>
Message-ID: <485D4160.6040902@SoCal.rr.com>

Chris,

As I recall, an early James Bond only "missed it by that much".  He did 
drive a Sunbeam (an Alpine) heroically. (Does he do anything NOT heroic?)

Regards,

Steve
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Chris Thompson wrote:
> Get Smart may well be one of the reasons our cars get no respect.  It 
> would have been different if James Bond had driven a Tiger.  The Tiger 
> was (mistakenly) used as the "spoof" of a sports car in the *spoof* of 
> the James Bond genre that was Get Smart.
>
> But I always liked Get Smart better than James Bond anyway, so I'm cool 
> with that ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 12:23:54 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:23:54 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Antifreeze
In-Reply-To: <00b801c8d354$587e87a0$220110ac@ALLOFUS>
References: <mailman.16536.1214012651.1200.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<00b801c8d354$587e87a0$220110ac@ALLOFUS>
Message-ID: <485D473A.3070202@SoCal.rr.com>

Roland,

A good description of various antifreeze ingredients can be found at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

The "distilled" versus "deionized" water can be found at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deionized_water

Basically, the difference is:
*
_Distilled wate_r* has virtually all of its impurities removed through distillation. Distillation involves boiling the water and then condensing the steam into a clean cup, leaving nearly all of the solid contaminants behind. Distillation produces very pure water but also leaves behind a leftover white or yellowish mineral scale, which requires that the *distillation apparatus* be frequently cleaned.


_*Deionized water*_ which is also known as demineralized water (DI water or de-ionized water; also spelled deionised water, see spelling differences) is water that has had its minerals removed, such as cations from sodium, calcium, iron, copper and anions such as chloride and bromide. Deionization is a physical process which uses specially-manufactured ion exchange resins which bind to and filter out the mineral salts from water. Because the majority of water impurities are dissolved salts, deionization produces a high purity water that is generally similar to distilled water quickly and without scale buildup. However, deionization does not significantly remove uncharged organic molecules, viruses or bacteria, except through "accidental" trapping by the resin. 

_*Distilled or deionized water*_ is preferable to tap water for use in automotive cooling systems. The minerals and ions typically found in tap water can be corrosive to internal engine components, and can cause a more rapid depletion of the anti-corrosion additives found in most antifreeze formulations.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



CSX2282 wrote:
> As mentioned in a previous response, I use a mixture of 50/50% distilled
> water and antifreeze.
>
> One response I saw recommend the use of distilled rather than deioniozed
> water.  I have yet to see a description of the difference between the two or
> why one is preferable.  I'd be very interested in knowing what the
> difference is.  Also,  keep in mind that the instance you pour ion free
> water, of whatever type, into your cooling system, it will instantly become
> ionized.  These ions come from the various metals in your cooling system-
> copper (brass), aluminum and iron, etc.
>
> Roland

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jun 21 12:24:35 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:24:35 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Taga Florio Tiger with bumpers
Message-ID: <000f01c8d3cc$0f6a1a20$6501a8c0@your03667082de>

Check out Ebay Item number: 180256255791.  Its a 66 Tiger Mk 1A with front end
"customizing" reminiscent of the Targa Florio Tiger with chrome bumperettes.
Not my cup of tea and in my view, pretty ugly.  I guess the owner wanted to
maximize air flow to his radiator at the expense of a good looking car.


                                                                             
                                                     Jeff

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 12:31:47 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:31:47 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Holley Gasket Sealing
In-Reply-To: <485C87E5.7090506@cox.net>
References: <485C87E5.7090506@cox.net>
Message-ID: <485D4913.9010007@SoCal.rr.com>

Steve Sage,

Just a quickie. When I needed a gasket to my 4 BBL Holley 465 CFM LAT 
carb, (venturi to throttle plate) there were more than one gasket that 
would "fit".  However, many gaskets look alike, but do not match all the 
connecting passages holes between the throttle plate and the Carb body. 
Same MAY be true for the float bowl gaskets.

Steve L.

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Steve Sage wrote:
> Hello Sunbeamers:
>
> I am thinking of re-installing my Adjust A Jet plate on my Holley carb. 
> For anyone who doesn't know, you take out the jets and add the Adjust A 
> Jet plate between the fuel bowl and the metering plate. The kit gives 
> you longer bolts and a longer accelerator pump lever to cover the added 
> distance. The idea is that now you can adjust your jet size with the 
> engine running by just turning the Adjust A Jet valve with a screw 
> driver. When you're at high altitude and need to, just lean it out a 
> bit. When you get back down to lower altitude, just turn the valve back 
> the other way. No more taking the carb apart  to change jets.
<---- snip ---->
>
> Steve Sage

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 12:42:55 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:42:55 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Air Conditioning
In-Reply-To: <000501c8d38d$87b64ce0$9722e6a0$@rr.com>
References: <ccb.2c13c058.358e460e@aol.com>
	<000501c8d38d$87b64ce0$9722e6a0$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <485D4BAF.2020307@SoCal.rr.com>

Duke,

I realize that a refrigerated air conditioner may be more costly, but I 
did see a neat conversion using an older Mazda console type A/C fans and 
condenser (with "Ford" everything else.

The console neatly mounts between the transmission tunnel and the dash, 
just behind the dashboard fascia. It contains the condenser and fans in 
this unit, including directional cool air outlets.

Looks very neat, and similar to the accessory radio/speaker console.

For all after-market add-ons, this one may be most useful.  Be cautious 
about which coolant type the unit is designed for, as gas refills may be 
hard to find.  There are change kits, including orifices and expansion 
valves that may adapt older gas types. (read "unavailable")

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Duke Samouce wrote:

<---- snip ---->
> Or to be committed.  I just finished the cruise control install yesterday
> and that should help.  I also made a "*ice cooler*" A/C unit that will be on
> the passenger floor.
> Should be fun.  
>
> Duke

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 13:03:05 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:03:05 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Cooling your Tiger
In-Reply-To: <000f01c8d3cc$0f6a1a20$6501a8c0@your03667082de>
References: <000f01c8d3cc$0f6a1a20$6501a8c0@your03667082de>
Message-ID: <485D5069.3070008@SoCal.rr.com>

Jeff, and Tigers,

Pretty neat build, but a bit severe.  If you would like MOST of the air 
handling capabilities, without altering the appearance, check out 
TigersUnited.com "Cool It, Buddy 
<http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp>"

(http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp)

Although the custom "Modine" radiator may not be available, the core 
specs are given, and a good radiator manufacturer may be able to make 
one to the listed specs, that also fits your stock tanks.

This may be particularly valuable if you are considering adding air 
conditioning.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Jeffrey Nichols wrote:
> Check out Ebay Item number: 180256255791 <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1966-SUNBEAM-TIGER-MK-1A-Roadster-FULL-RESTORATION_W0QQitemZ180256255791QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180256255791&>.  Its a 66 Tiger Mk 1A with front end
> "customizing" reminiscent of the Targa Florio Tiger with chrome bumperettes.
> Not my cup of tea and in my view, pretty ugly.  I guess the owner wanted to
> maximize air flow to his radiator at the expense of a good looking car.
>
>  Jeff

From packertl3 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 21 14:07:07 2008
From: packertl3 at yahoo.com (Terry Packer)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:07:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Different Holley Gasket Question
In-Reply-To: <485D4913.9010007@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <121948.67872.qm@web56403.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

A few times over the years my Holly's main jets have gotten obstructed. I'm running multiple fuel filters including a final clear one which is perfectly clean. 

Since contamination doesn't seem to be getting in with the fuel, I suspect shards of gasket in the jets. It could be from the bowl gasket. But it seems more likely that fibers from the seals in the bowl's 4 mounting holes get carried inside on the threads of the mounting bolts when they're inserted to tighten the bowl to the body. 

So my questions are - can anybody confirm whether those fiber seals in the float bowl holes are a source of contamination and are there any alternative seals that won't shed flakes when the bolts are taken in and out?

Other thoughts/suggestions gratefully accepted.

Thanks
Terry 
9470018

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 14:09:19 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:09:19 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart DVD's
Message-ID: <485D5FEF.9010504@SoCal.rr.com>

Just a note for those that really liked the Don Adams "Maxwell Smart".  
These shows are available on *25 *DVD packaged set, and can enhance your 
memories.

http://www.timelife.com/catalog/product.jsp?catalogId=2&categoryId=17&productId=9613&siteID=xu03iJN422o-EmXvzr7O41fMso.0omCa9Q

Thanks to my son, Jay.


Steve


-- 
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 14:32:45 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:32:45 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Movie in 2008 (2007)
In-Reply-To: <cbe.14cab3ec.342c837f@aol.com>
References: <cbe.14cab3ec.342c837f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <485D656D.2040304@SoCal.rr.com>

Looking Backwards:

 From Sept. 26, *2007:

*Here is a post forecasting the movie version of "Get Smart".  Alan's 
suggestions apparently DID win out!

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



AAAGLASSS at aol.com wrote:
> No Tigers or Alpines are in this Warner Brothers Production. We worked on  
> this movie and I suggested a Tiger but GM was backing the show and wanted all GM 
>  vehicles. They used about 8 different Suburban's and 6 Cad DTS's. Sorry  
> Max.   
>
> A. LEE  FESTICH

From fordlandia at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jun 21 14:48:39 2008
From: fordlandia at sbcglobal.net (Bill Waite)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Taga Florio Tiger with bumpers
In-Reply-To: <000f01c8d3cc$0f6a1a20$6501a8c0@your03667082de>
Message-ID: <111095.94956.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I guess "to each his own."  I kind of like the modifications on the car you refer to.  Not that I'd do it to mine, but it looks like whoever did the front end work went to a fair amount of trouble to finish off the "bumperettes," retain the horizontal part of the normal grille trim and maintain a "vintage race" look.  If the car was a 356 Porsche, it would fall in the "Outlaw" class: minor modifications to the owner's liking.

One thing I've always liked about Tigers (we still have a Mark 1 purchased in 1979 and a Mark II purchased in 1979) is that modifications have not generally been so "taboo" as with some other collector cars.  Unfortunately, as the price of Tigers escalates, it seems more and more attention is being paid to the minutia (e.g. where can I buy "correct" hose clamps).

The Tiger definitely has "hot rod" roots (or Rootes if you prefer) and I appreciate the modified ones as much as the stock versions.   JMO.

Bill
Grand Rapids, MI

  

Jeffrey Nichols <jxnichols at sbcglobal.net> wrote: Check out Ebay Item number: 180256255791.  Its a 66 Tiger Mk 1A with front end
"customizing" reminiscent of the Targa Florio Tiger with chrome bumperettes.
Not my cup of tea and in my view, pretty ugly.  I guess the owner wanted to
maximize air flow to his radiator at the expense of a good looking car.


                                                                             
                                                     Jeff
You are subscribed as fordlandia at sbcglobal.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From fastsage at cox.net  Sat Jun 21 14:50:18 2008
From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:50:18 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Holley Gasket Sealing
In-Reply-To: <485D4913.9010007@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <485C87E5.7090506@cox.net> <485D4913.9010007@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <485D698A.9040604@cox.net>

Hello Steve L:
You are definitely correct on not all gaskets being alike. That was one 
of my problems with my last carb take a part. I used an after market 
gasket "for" Holley carbs. It turns out the hole for the accelerator 
pump vacuum passage does not line up exactly with most of those. I've 
noticed that with a couple of off brands of gaskets. The Holley gaskets 
line up exactly so be sure that's what you buy, and make sure it's the 
one for your specific carb application.

There was another comment about if you install A/C in your Tiger (I 
have) and what gas to use. I doubt you will ever get it to blow cold 
with the current stuff, 134. You would need a lot bigger condenser and 
more airflow across it, two improbable accomplishments with a Tiger. If 
you do it, you will have to use R12 freon. You will find that R12 is no 
longer as expensive as you think. So few cars still use it that there's 
a big stock of old R12 out there. An alternative is a product called 
Freeze 12. It's a mix of 134 and something else related to R12. I used 
it in a previous version of my Tiger A/C and it worked pretty well, plus 
it's cheap and you can buy it without a license, as far as I know. I 
would steer away from any "freon" products that contain propane. It's an 
excellent refrigerant, but has the added fun possiblity of going 
"ka-boom"! (No documented cases that I know of, but not something I'd 
want in the Tiger).

The Tiger with the neat Mazda center console A/C set up you're referring 
to is probably Tiger Tom's (Tom Erhardt....sorry Tom if I've mis-spelled 
it!) from Pennsylvania. That is a very cool installation and looks 
exactly like you'd imagine the factory would have done it, if they ever 
had. Tom's an engineer and he did a lot of engineering to do what he 
did. A beautiful job.

Steve Sage



>
>
> Just a quickie. When I needed a gasket to my 4 BBL Holley 465 CFM LAT 
> carb, (venturi to throttle plate) there were more than one gasket that 
> would "fit".  However, many gaskets look alike, but do not match all 
> the connecting passages holes between the throttle plate and the Carb 
> body. Same MAY be true for the float bowl gaskets.
>
> Steve L.
>
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
>
>
>
> S





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
Database version: 5.10090e
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/

From AAAGLASSS at aol.com  Sat Jun 21 15:38:06 2008
From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:38:06 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Movie in 2008 (2007)
Message-ID: <c7d.2ba9467a.358ecebe@aol.com>

Would you believe?  The transportation coordinator told me GM wanted  there 
products in the movie and no others. The Alpine in the movie was filmed in  
Canada by the second unit(action scenes no stars). The Trans coordinator knows I  
have a Tiger and  didn't know these scenes were being filmed until the  movie 
was almost wrapped.  If you ever get approached by someone wanting to  use 
your car in a movie, run unless you don't like the car. They beat the heck  out 
of them.  There are lots of folks with period cars in So, Cal. that  rent out 
there cars to the TV/Movie Industry. The owners go with the cars and  drive 
them in the production. These are mostly retired people picking up a few  bucks. 
Sorry Max.  

B382002560

 
 
In a message dated 6/21/2008 1:32:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com writes:

Looking  Backwards:

>From Sept. 26, 2007:

Here is a post  forecasting the movie version of "Get Smart".  Alan's 
suggestions  apparently DID win out!

Steve
___

Steve Laifman

Editor - TigersUnited.com



_AAAGLASSS at aol.com_ (mailto:AAAGLASSS at aol.com)  wrote:  
No Tigers or Alpines are in this Warner Brothers Production. We worked on  

this movie and I suggested a Tiger but GM was backing the show and wanted all 
GM 

 vehicles. They used about 8 different Suburban's and 6 Cad DTS's. Sorry  

Max.   



A. LEE  FESTICH

   
B382002560







**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 16:07:48 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:07:48 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Movie in 2008 (2007)
In-Reply-To: <c7d.2ba9467a.358ecebe@aol.com>
References: <c7d.2ba9467a.358ecebe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <485D7BB4.9090706@SoCal.rr.com>

Alan,

Thanks for the come-back.  The Canadian Sunbeams Alpines were purchased 
from the same guy who sold his Tiger to the Hamburger chain offering it 
for a prize. He says he was just kept the Alpines around for spare parts.

Steve
___

Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com
 <cid:part1.06040907.07080804 at SoCal.rr.com>



AAAGLASSS at aol.com wrote:
> Would you believe?  The transportation coordinator told me GM wanted 
> there products in the movie and no others. The Alpine in the movie was 
> filmed in Canada by the second unit(action scenes no stars). The Trans 
> coordinator knows I have a Tiger and  didn't know these scenes were 
> being filmed until the movie was almost wrapped.  If you ever get 
> approached by someone wanting to use your car in a movie, run unless 
> you don't like the car. They beat the heck out of them.  There are 
> lots of folks with period cars in So, Cal. that rent out there cars to 
> the TV/Movie Industry. The owners go with the cars and drive them in 
> the production. These are mostly retired people picking up a few 
> bucks. Sorry Max.
>  
> B382002560

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 16:29:04 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:29:04 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Air Conditioning
Message-ID: <000601c8d3ee$36ba10e0$a42e32a0$@rr.com>

Oh no,

 

This is what I meant about a "ice cooler" - 

 PMAC1.JPG

 

PMAC2.JPG

 

Can hold 20 pounds of ice and puts out very cold air for about two hours...I
hope.

 

I would like to see some pictures of your set up though.  Ice does get kinda
expensive.  It will get me through the desert though.

 

Duke

 

 

 

 

 

From: Steve Laifman [mailto:SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com] 
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:43 PM
To: Duke Samouce
Cc: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET
Subject: Air Conditioning

 

Duke,

I realize that a refrigerated air conditioner may be more costly, but I did
see a neat conversion using an older Mazda console type A/C fans and
condenser (with "Ford" everything else.

The console neatly mounts between the transmission tunnel and the dash, just
behind the dashboard fascia. It contains the condenser and fans in this
unit, including directional cool air outlets.

Looks very neat, and similar to the accessory radio/speaker console.

For all after-market add-ons, this one may be most useful.  Be cautious
about which coolant type the unit is designed for, as gas refills may be
hard to find.  There are change kits, including orifices and expansion
valves that may adapt older gas types. (read "unavailable")

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Duke Samouce wrote:

<---- snip ---->

Or to be committed.  I just finished the cruise control install yesterday
and that should help.  I also made a "ice cooler" A/C unit that will be on
the passenger floor.
Should be fun.  
 
Duke

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image005.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image006.jpg]

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Sat Jun 21 16:31:35 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:31:35 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Air Conditioning
In-Reply-To: <000601c8d3ee$36ba10e0$a42e32a0$@rr.com>
References: <000601c8d3ee$36ba10e0$a42e32a0$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c8d3ee$90a097a0$b1e1c6e0$@rr.com>

Ooops,

Here is the links to the pictures:

http://e28-535i.com/upload/PMAC1.JPG

http://e28-535i.com/upload/PMAC2.JPG



-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Duke
Samouce
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:29 PM
To: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Air Conditioning

Oh no,

 

This is what I meant about a "ice cooler" - 

 PMAC1.JPG

 

PMAC2.JPG

 

Can hold 20 pounds of ice and puts out very cold air for about two hours...I
hope.

 

I would like to see some pictures of your set up though.  Ice does get kinda
expensive.  It will get me through the desert though.

 

Duke

 

 

 

 

 

From: Steve Laifman [mailto:SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com] 
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:43 PM
To: Duke Samouce
Cc: TIGERS at AUTOX.TEAM.NET
Subject: Air Conditioning

 

Duke,

I realize that a refrigerated air conditioner may be more costly, but I did
see a neat conversion using an older Mazda console type A/C fans and
condenser (with "Ford" everything else.

The console neatly mounts between the transmission tunnel and the dash, just
behind the dashboard fascia. It contains the condenser and fans in this
unit, including directional cool air outlets.

Looks very neat, and similar to the accessory radio/speaker console.

For all after-market add-ons, this one may be most useful.  Be cautious
about which coolant type the unit is designed for, as gas refills may be
hard to find.  There are change kits, including orifices and expansion
valves that may adapt older gas types. (read "unavailable")

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Duke Samouce wrote:

<---- snip ---->

Or to be committed.  I just finished the cruise control install yesterday
and that should help.  I also made a "ice cooler" A/C unit that will be on
the passenger floor.
Should be fun.  
 
Duke

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
image005.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
image006.jpg]
You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Jun 21 17:58:43 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:58:43 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Air Conditioning
Message-ID: <c85.2c4adedb.358eefb3@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/21/2008 7:34:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
wsamouce at kc.rr.com writes:

http://e28-535i.com/upload/PMAC2.JPG



I saw some kind of a plug in cooler in a Volvo car catalogue.   I think it 
was much smaller than this...6 pack size.
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From cars at wt-inc.com  Sat Jun 21 18:07:39 2008
From: cars at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:07:39 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Interested in purchasing a Tiger
Message-ID: <000701c8d3fb$fcd79ce0$f686d6a0$@com>

ALL

 

I have recently been contacted by an individual looking to purchase a Mk 1A.
He would prefer a restored version.  I do not know this individual
personally but am only passing on his email per his request.

 

He can be reached at keith.ho at shaw.ca.

 

I believe he is located in BC so anyone in the Northwest?

 

Please contact him directly

 

Best regards,

 

Lynn

From macdonald49 at shaw.ca  Sat Jun 21 18:17:19 2008
From: macdonald49 at shaw.ca (Peter MacDonald)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:17:19 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Water
Message-ID: <D8C04A43-5CD0-462C-938D-FC5BE295CA04@shaw.ca>

As a Chem teacher for many years it was difficult to get the students  
to realize that water is not always pH7.0. Wikip was correct, the  
high solubility of CO2 is the culprit. The large jug of deionized  
water that sat on my counter was usually about pH5.6. All solutions  
made with this(which is what we always used) then had to be adjusted  
a like amount for expected pH and type of material added.

On a related note, the water supply here in Vancouver is three large  
reservoirs up in the local mountains. Currently, there is a new  
purification system being constructed which will utilize UV and ozone  
instead of Chlorine compounds. They will also be adjusting the output  
pH to about 8 which should make things a lot easier on the copper  
pipes and solder in the joints and other materials that come into  
contact within the water systems.

Peter

From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Jun 21 18:33:51 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:33:51 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] EBay sensor
Message-ID: <c84.2c768dac.358ef7ef@aol.com>

In case anyone has had a hard time finding a replacement, there are  a number 
of listing for Tiger oxygen sensors. The beauty is they will fit all 3  
models of Tigers and it looks like the leads would be long enough to run up  under 
your dash and connect to your computer:-)
Item # 230257502277



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jun 21 19:53:04 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:53:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Get Smart Tiger cameo - James Bond's Heroics
Message-ID: <890842.29856.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"He did drive a Sunbeam (an Alpine) heroically. (Does he do anything NOT
 heroic?)"
   
   
  I recall in "Goldfinger"  James beats up Pussy Galore which on  face value is not heroic.    Although he may have been provoked.  In the book he converts her from a lesbian to straight (don't remember if that is in the movie) and depending on your values, may be heroic or not.  
   
  As a mere child when the movie came out, I couldn't understand why a women was named after a cat.  Now I know better.
   
   
                                                      Jeff

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Sat Jun 21 23:00:22 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 22:00:22 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] EBay sensor
References: <c84.2c768dac.358ef7ef@aol.com>
Message-ID: <009501c8d424$e0980730$0202a8c0@student2>

Well..., of course. Those O2 sensors are to detect the crossover hose 
leakage and let you know when your interior compartment is running rich.
They come without connectors so as to not violate a Lucas malfunction 
patent.  :-)
Tom



> In case anyone has had a hard time finding a replacement, there are  a 
> number
> of listing for Tiger oxygen sensors. The beauty is they will fit all 3
> models of Tigers and it looks like the leads would be long enough to run 
> up  under
> your dash and connect to your computer:-)
> Item # 230257502277
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1512 - Release Date: 6/21/2008 9:27
AM

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Sun Jun 22 08:00:05 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:00:05 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
In-Reply-To: <890842.29856.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <890842.29856.qm@web81507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8d470$46247840$d26d68c0$@rr.com>

Three days out from my departure to TU 31 and I just thought about if my
door and trunk locks work.  I will be staying at a motel on Wednesday night
and would like to lock the car up.  

Well, my ignition key (the only one) does not work in the doors or trunk.
Anyone have experience having a key made for the locks or replacing them?  

Duke

From maliburevue at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 22 09:30:38 2008
From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d470$46247840$d26d68c0$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <359169.87955.qm@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Duke,
 
I personally took all my locks aparts and rekeyed them to the same key. It
is VERY convenient to have one common key. I have no idea why the factory used
different keys, especially since it's a convertible.
 
Gary

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Duke Samouce <wsamouce at kc.rr.com> wrote:

From: Duke Samouce <wsamouce at kc.rr.com>
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 7:00 AM

Three days out from my departure to TU 31 and I just thought about if my
door and trunk locks work.  I will be staying at a motel on Wednesday night
and would like to lock the car up.

Well, my ignition key (the only one) does not work in the doors or trunk.
Anyone have experience having a key made for the locks or replacing them?

Duke
You are subscribed as maliburevue at yahoo.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From achd73 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 22 12:52:01 2008
From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:52:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
In-Reply-To: <359169.87955.qm@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <527950.10174.qm@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Duke
Locking a Tiger might give you a better feeling but even w/ the hardtop on, it wouldnt slow a thidf down.  Think about security that a normal thief wont know about. Like a hidden switch for the fuel pump, battery disconnect and the switch, removing the rotor button or removing a wire from the ballast resistor.. Truth is a pro want your car- ITS GONE> But all the Beam events Ive been to(none out west), security was excellent and I havent heard of anyone having anything stlen, especially a car BUT truth is that anyone who knows much about a Tiger could drive off in a few minutes, no matter what you do. Its not far from the selinoid and the 12V it would take to hot wire it and jumper the starter as well and one wire to the fuel pump and Im driving. So, if you cant get keys made in time  and once apart you will see they arent that hard to change the tumblers, you might think about other protective measures. My bet is the United has aranged for security thru
 the host- not that make it a gurantee. 
Have fun tho.
TTT


--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Gary Crandall <maliburevue at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Gary Crandall <maliburevue at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
> To: "Duke Samouce" <wsamouce at kc.rr.com>
> Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:30 AM
> Duke,
>  
> I personally took all my locks aparts and rekeyed them to
> the same key. It
> is VERY convenient to have one common key. I have no idea
> why the factory used
> different keys, especially since it's a convertible.
>  
> Gary
> 
> --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Duke Samouce
> <wsamouce at kc.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Duke Samouce <wsamouce at kc.rr.com>
> Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
> To: tigers at autox.team.net
> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 7:00 AM
> 
> Three days out from my departure to TU 31 and I just
> thought about if my
> door and trunk locks work.  I will be staying at a motel on
> Wednesday night
> and would like to lock the car up.
> 
> Well, my ignition key (the only one) does not work in the
> doors or trunk.
> Anyone have experience having a key made for the locks or
> replacing them?
> 
> Duke
> You are subscribed as maliburevue at yahoo.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From milward at roadrunner.com  Sun Jun 22 16:05:17 2008
From: milward at roadrunner.com (Bill Rogers Motorsport Memories)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:05:17 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] LAT Option Sales Sheets
Message-ID: <A30DD03A21214A1C9ADCA8B069AEF28C@BillPC>

When we got our car from the original owner we were given a fairly complete
set of the LAT option sheets as well as the Sept 1 1966 price list of all
available LAT options. I would like to complete the set and have down loaded
what is available from Steve Laifman's Tigers United website. Steve did not
reproduce the actual sheets but transcribed them with pictures to reduce
memory requirements.

Does anyone have original sheets for the following LAT options that they would
be willing to color copy? I will make a set of mine (as far as I can determine
I have all the rest) and can trade 1 for1 for any you can provide for any I
have. Perhaps we can swap at TU in Big Bear this weekend?

LAT12 Dress Up
LAT 10-16 Pins Decals etc.
LAT 27 Tri-Y Headers (Don't know if this exists)
LAT 58 Tail Stripe
LAT 70 Wheels
LAT 72 Radio
LAT 73 Headers

Bill Rogers
Mediterranean Blue with Black HT
B9472703

From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Sun Jun 22 16:45:51 2008
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:45:51 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
Message-ID: <c37.328ed99a.3590301f@aol.com>

The factory sent two keys.  One for the ignition an  angle  shaped key that 
said ROOTES.
The other key was square and worked the doors and trunk.  Why two  different 
hey?
Ask GM they still do the same thing.  Honda give you a master key that  works 
all
the locks and the other will not open the truck.
 
There was a CAT tech tip on how to rekey your keys yourself.  Perhaps  there
tech tip guy can help.
 
I rekeyed mine
 
Dave
 
 
In a message dated 6/22/2008 10:31:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
maliburevue at yahoo.com writes:

Duke,

I personally took all my locks aparts and rekeyed them to  the same key. It
is VERY convenient to have one common key. I have no idea  why the factory 
used
different keys, especially since it's a  convertible.

Gary

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Duke Samouce  <wsamouce at kc.rr.com> wrote:

From: Duke Samouce  <wsamouce at kc.rr.com>
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
To:  tigers at autox.team.net
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 7:00 AM

Three  days out from my departure to TU 31 and I just thought about if my
door and  trunk locks work.  I will be staying at a motel on Wednesday night
and  would like to lock the car up.

Well, my ignition key (the only one)  does not work in the doors or trunk.
Anyone have experience having a key  made for the locks or replacing them?

Duke
You are subscribed as  maliburevue at yahoo.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
You are subscribed as  djoh797014 at aol.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive





**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Mon Jun 23 02:38:01 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:38:01 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] LAT Option Sales Sheets
In-Reply-To: <A30DD03A21214A1C9ADCA8B069AEF28C@BillPC>
References: <A30DD03A21214A1C9ADCA8B069AEF28C@BillPC>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806230138s70dd742ep99b7b98c6006b15e@mail.gmail.com>

Bill,

Why not scan them all and put them on a website like webshots? I have done
this with much of the factory material i have collected, that way all
enthusiasts can get a look and they are not just sitting in a pile in the
dark.

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Mon Jun 23 11:08:30 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:08:30 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Off Topic Replicator Bots
Message-ID: <485FD88E.7030709@SoCal.rr.com>

Tigers,

There is a glimmer of hope on the horizon for "replicated" Tigers, exact 
down to the original rivets.

Only we are not quite there yet.

The article "Scientists build robot that can replicate itself 
<http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9101738&source=NLT_AM&nlid=1>" 
is about early trials on circuit boards .

 and the picture "RepRap 
<http://dev.www.reprap.org/pub/Main/PressPix/reprap.jpg>" (all hot 
links, I hope). Not far off from Stargate SG-1 "replicators".

But imagine the future advances when two "Authenticated" Tigers can 
produce an offspring!

Of course, with two CATS, it will be a challenge to determine who is on 
top!  :-D

Anyway, it is fascinating.

Steve

-- 
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From grl19 at cox.net  Mon Jun 23 11:25:44 2008
From: grl19 at cox.net (grl19)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:25:44 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Off Topic Replicator Bots
In-Reply-To: <485FD88E.7030709@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <000501c8d556$2e37c610$9200a8c0@mylaptop>

There are systems out there will take a 3-D AutoCad drawing and create a
plastic model of it.  Using a special plastic hardened by a certain laser.
The company I worked for before retiring scanned a typical crescent wrench
with a laser, fed it into the modeler and it turned out a fully functional
crescent wrench.  They also scanned a planetary gear assembly & re-created
it, again fully functional.

I want one to go with my laser etching system but the cost is grossly
prohibitive as a toy!

George

B382000283

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+grl19=cox.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+grl19=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve
Laifman
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 1:09 PM
To: Tiger's Den
Subject: [Tigers] Off Topic Replicator Bots

Tigers,

There is a glimmer of hope on the horizon for "replicated" Tigers, exact
down to the original rivets.

Only we are not quite there yet.

The article "Scientists build robot that can replicate itself
<http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&art
icleId=9101738&source=NLT_AM&nlid=1>"
is about early trials on circuit boards .

 and the picture "RepRap
<http://dev.www.reprap.org/pub/Main/PressPix/reprap.jpg>" (all hot
links, I hope). Not far off from Stargate SG-1 "replicators".

But imagine the future advances when two "Authenticated" Tigers can
produce an offspring!

Of course, with two CATS, it will be a challenge to determine who is on
top!  :-D

Anyway, it is fascinating.

Steve

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Mon Jun 23 11:44:16 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:44:16 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] LAT Option Sales Sheets
In-Reply-To: <A30DD03A21214A1C9ADCA8B069AEF28C@BillPC>
References: <A30DD03A21214A1C9ADCA8B069AEF28C@BillPC>
Message-ID: <485FE0F0.9010901@SoCal.rr.com>

Tigers,

While Bill is correct about the LAT Price List 
http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_service/pp-letters.asp
 having been reduced to text for compactness, the "letters" on the first 
two pages are "GIF" images, and can be downloaded and sized as desired 
(not super clear).  These pages can also be printed from the browser.  
The LAT-27 Tri-Y headers do exist (I have a set) and are shown well in 
"The Book of Norman".

The Rootes Accessories List 
(http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/Dealer_Accessories/DealerAccessCat.asp), 
thanks to David and Gary Franchi, are in TWO 8 page .PDF downloadable 
files.  One 0.5 Mb, and the less clear, and one 2.4 Mb, in great 
clarity.  Both printable, and from original material. These include the 
available air conditioning units. (for the "Minx"  :-( )

Many of the LAT & Dealer options are shown on: 
http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_service/lat.asp
<http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_service/lat.asp,,Steve>
Good page for many of the rarer LAT options, such as cast oil pan, 
Stripe Kit, scatter shield, tube headers, wheels, etc. These are taken 
from the original LAT pages.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Bill Rogers Motorsport Memories wrote:
> When we got our car from the original owner we were given a fairly complete
> set of the LAT option sheets as well as the Sept 1 1966 price list of all
> available LAT options. I would like to complete the set and have down loaded
> what is available from Steve Laifman's Tigers United website. Steve did not
> reproduce the actual sheets but transcribed them with pictures to reduce
> memory requirements.
>
> Does anyone have original sheets for the following LAT options that they would
> be willing to color copy? I will make a set of mine (as far as I can determine
> I have all the rest) and can trade 1 for1 for any you can provide for any I
> have. Perhaps we can swap at TU in Big Bear this weekend?
>
> LAT12 Dress Up
> LAT 10-16 Pins Decals etc.
> LAT 27 Tri-Y Headers (Don't know if this exists)
> LAT 58 Tail Stripe
> LAT 70 Wheels
> LAT 72 Radio
> LAT 73 Headers
>
> Bill Rogers
> Mediterranean Blue with Black HT
> B9472703

From mark.rense at ge.com  Mon Jun 23 11:54:10 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:54:10 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Off Topic Replicator Bots
In-Reply-To: <000501c8d556$2e37c610$9200a8c0@mylaptop>
References: <485FD88E.7030709@SoCal.rr.com>
	<000501c8d556$2e37c610$9200a8c0@mylaptop>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04D8A922@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

It's called Stereo Lithography (SLA), I have two machines here in the
lab for making prototypes and low-volume die-casting molds. The system
takes files from our Solidworks or ProE CAD systems and builds a 3-D
model. For "reverse-engineering", we also have a laser CMM scanner for
direct physical input.

There are now a host of engineering polymers available for SLA machines,
we have the ability to make parts which can withstand 180 degrees C.
Other polymers will make parts strong enough to produce complex linkages
or even gear trains. It's a good thing too, as we have lost most of the
skilled tool & die makers who used to do our model shop work.

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
grl19
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 1:26 PM
To: 'Steve Laifman'; 'Tiger's Den'
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Off Topic Replicator Bots

There are systems out there will take a 3-D AutoCad drawing and create a
plastic model of it.  Using a special plastic hardened by a certain
laser.
The company I worked for before retiring scanned a typical crescent
wrench with a laser, fed it into the modeler and it turned out a fully
functional crescent wrench.  They also scanned a planetary gear assembly
& re-created it, again fully functional.

I want one to go with my laser etching system but the cost is grossly
prohibitive as a toy!

George

B382000283

From banana111 at msn.com  Mon Jun 23 12:21:16 2008
From: banana111 at msn.com (Brent Edinger)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:21:16 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
Message-ID: <BLU114-W39DCA69133527083BBED2DF7A60@phx.gbl>

 When I restored my car I integrated a modern security system in to the wiring
harness giving it
a little more security. But it won't stop a tow truck from making off with
your car.

               Brent






DukeLocking a Tiger might give you a better feeling but even w/ the hardtop
on, it wouldnt slow a thidf down. Think about security that a normal thief
wont know about. Like a hidden switch for the fuel pump, battery disconnect
and the switch, removing the rotor button or removing a wire from the ballast
resistor.. Truth is a pro want your car- ITS GONE> But all the Beam events Ive
been to(none out west), security was excellent and I havent heard of anyone
having anything stlen, especially a car BUT truth is that anyone who knows
much about a Tiger could drive off in a few minutes, no matter what you do.
Its not far from the selinoid and the 12V it would take to hot wire it and
jumper the starter as well and one wire to the fuel pump and Im driving. So,
if you cant get keys made in time and once apart you will see they arent that
hard to change the tumblers, you might think about other protective measures.
My bet is the United has aranged for security thruthe host- not that make it a
gurantee. Have fun tho.TTT

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Mon Jun 23 12:26:26 2008
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:26:26 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear
Message-ID: <OF23A57103.28A335B9-ON88257471.00654C0B@countrywide.com>

Just a few days to go, and I haven't seen any email traffic about it.  It's
still on isn't it?  I'm leaving from Ventura either 6 am ish or 10 ish on
Thursday.  Others?



======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

======================================================================

From cars at wt-inc.com  Mon Jun 23 14:10:09 2008
From: cars at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:10:09 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
In-Reply-To: <c37.328ed99a.3590301f@aol.com>
References: <c37.328ed99a.3590301f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c8d56d$23780980$6a681c80$@com>

Anybody have this tech tip?

I would love to do this

Lynn

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
DJoh797014 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 4:46 PM
To: maliburevue at yahoo.com; wsamouce at kc.rr.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks

The factory sent two keys.  One for the ignition an  angle  shaped key that 
said ROOTES.
The other key was square and worked the doors and trunk.  Why two  different

hey?
Ask GM they still do the same thing.  Honda give you a master key that
works 
all
the locks and the other will not open the truck.
 
There was a CAT tech tip on how to rekey your keys yourself.  Perhaps  there
tech tip guy can help.
 
I rekeyed mine
 
Dave
 
 
In a message dated 6/22/2008 10:31:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
maliburevue at yahoo.com writes:

Duke,

I personally took all my locks aparts and rekeyed them to  the same key. It
is VERY convenient to have one common key. I have no idea  why the factory 
used
different keys, especially since it's a  convertible.

Gary

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Duke Samouce  <wsamouce at kc.rr.com> wrote:

From: Duke Samouce  <wsamouce at kc.rr.com>
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
To:  tigers at autox.team.net
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 7:00 AM

Three  days out from my departure to TU 31 and I just thought about if my
door and  trunk locks work.  I will be staying at a motel on Wednesday night
and  would like to lock the car up.

Well, my ignition key (the only one)  does not work in the doors or trunk.
Anyone have experience having a key  made for the locks or replacing them?

Duke
You are subscribed as  maliburevue at yahoo.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
You are subscribed as  djoh797014 at aol.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive





**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
You are subscribed as cars at wt-inc.com

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From achd73 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 14:57:08 2008
From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
Message-ID: <48992.34625.qm@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Anyone now thinking about taking your locks apart etc. there are a couple items of interest. One is that its nice to have some old locks from a parts car and next the main reason for two keys is that the original keys, if not cut and still in blank form are a direct opposite on the grove side. The ignition key has a cut the length of the key at the bottom that allows the key to slide on a small lug made at the beginning of the cylinder and the trunk key has the same grove cut in the blank on the other side. Most replacement keys sold in the early 70s until they started becoming hard to find had a grove on both sides, which made the blank useable for any locks on the car. Its strange that of all the Tiger and Alpine keys I have that several will work on the ignition while its hard to get the original to work on the trunk. Lack of lubrication being the main reason I think but maybe the ignition cylinder is used so many more times in comparison that "wear"
 is why the ignition will turn with a set of finger nail clips(the file part).
  My point is to take the small lug into consideration. I'm sure it can be filed off or perhaps having extra locks will leave you with all alike cylinders. Cheers, TonytheTiger


> Anybody have this tech tip?
> 
> I would love to do this
> 
> Lynn

From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net  Mon Jun 23 15:36:02 2008
From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:36:02 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear
References: <OF23A57103.28A335B9-ON88257471.00654C0B@countrywide.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c8d579$22eee5e0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Jay,

Of course it's still on. At last I heard, about 70 cars & 150 registered 
participants.

Tiger owners are coming from as far away as South Africa, Europe & 
Australia. Many participants have already arrived in the Southern California 
area and some Tigers are already in Big Bear. We just heard from Dave 
McDermott who is enroute towing his rally Tiger. He's currently westbound 
high in the Rockies and dreading his gas bill.

I know a bunch of local owners are leaving at the same time on Thursday 
morning.

Buck Trippel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:26 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear


> Just a few days to go, and I haven't seen any email traffic about it. 
> It's
> still on isn't it?  I'm leaving from Ventura either 6 am ish or 10 ish on
> Thursday.  Others?

From choffman9 at cinci.rr.com  Mon Jun 23 16:22:49 2008
From: choffman9 at cinci.rr.com (Curt)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:22:49 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Running hot
Message-ID: <007701c8d57f$ac104750$0101a8c0@HomeComputer>

Odd thing- looking for ideas of what to explore.

I had an engine built- a 347 stroker. It had some issues causing it to be torn
back down. But the good thing was it did not run hot. Seemed to stay below 200
degrees even when idling for a long time.

With the recent tear down to fix a problem I had them install a new Edelbrock
intake and we installed a new distributor. Other than those and the
replacement piston and rings to fix the issue, these were the only new parts I
know of. Now the engine runs hot. I mean real hot. On the 78 degree day it was
running up to 225 degrees on the streets with just a few lights. If I stayed
on the highway I could keep it around 200 degrees.  I got home and let it idle
for a few minutes and quickly climbed to 250 when I shut it off. the fuel
began to boil and the overflow tank spit out some. This is a real change from
where it was before.

I was thinking of doing the following:
Make sure they have the correct thermostat in it- maybe they did something
wierd this time around with the new intake
Make sure the fan is on correctly- it is a flex fan that worked fine before.
Not even sure they could install incorrectly but will look tonight
Perhaps they installed the intake manifold gaskets incorrectly. I seem to
recall from the two engines I build that you could put them on either upside
down or wrong side and it might block some passaged. But my memory could be
off here.

Since my time in the car is limited and I just did the temperature testing
yesterday I haven't expored anything yet. Thought I would throw this out in
the meantime since I only had a few minutes tonight and didn't think I would
get out to the garage.

Curt Hoffman

From jteepen at usatoday.com  Mon Jun 23 16:50:02 2008
From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:50:02 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear
In-Reply-To: <000a01c8d579$22eee5e0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97231104B7B@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>

And I would like to add: Anyone not registered at this time can register at
the event.  If you find you are able to attend at the last minute (which is
dang near now!) do not miss this opportunity.  If you would just like to come
up to spectate at any of the events on any day please do it!  The only day
that will cost anything to spectate (someone please correct me if I am wrong)
is the Saturday autocross as that is being run on private property and the
flow of people needs to be monitored.

Much more information (and correct information at that)is available at the
C.A.T. website: www.catmbr.org on the events page.

Jere



-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Buck
Trippel
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:36 PM
To: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear

Jay,

Of course it's still on. At last I heard, about 70 cars & 150 registered
participants.

Tiger owners are coming from as far away as South Africa, Europe & Australia.
Many participants have already arrived in the Southern California area and
some Tigers are already in Big Bear. We just heard from Dave McDermott who is
enroute towing his rally Tiger. He's currently westbound high in the Rockies
and dreading his gas bill.

I know a bunch of local owners are leaving at the same time on Thursday
morning.

Buck Trippel

----- Original Message -----
From: <Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:26 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear


> Just a few days to go, and I haven't seen any email traffic about it.
> It's
> still on isn't it?  I'm leaving from Ventura either 6 am ish or 10 ish
> on Thursday.  Others?
You are subscribed as jteepen at usatoday.com

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Mon Jun 23 16:56:43 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:56:43 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam brochures and stuff
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806231556g83657ecgc43c7b130de86c70@mail.gmail.com>

Guys, the web is a valuable source of knowledge, dont just keep your info
lockaed away. It helps the marque if more info is available. Its nice to
have an original brochure/book/document.. but its even better if you share
it.. and you still have the original.. so dont worry.

here are some sunbeam links i have up on the net, yuo may have to hunt
around in the avtras and shoebox a bit:
http://community.webshots.com/user/alpine_64

here is another sunbeamer who has done a great job of putting up info:
http://www.tiger260.ch/Oldies.htm

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From zimme008 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 16:59:24 2008
From: zimme008 at yahoo.com (Randy Zimmermann)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:59:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Door and trunk locks
In-Reply-To: <48992.34625.qm@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <344008.39912.qm@web56407.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Everyone will, no doubt, have their own approach to this.  During the
restoration when I was scheming about what I needed to have operational, I
thought for sure I would need the locks to work on the doors and trunk. 
Having had the Tiger on the road for a summer and a half, however, I have come
to the conclusion that neither the door or trunk lock present a very effective
deterrent to mischief-makers.  I employ a Club (locking on the brake pedal and
steering wheel) and, if I'm going to be gone and out-of-sight for awhile, I
take out the battery terminal switch key (little screw in knob).  Maybe not a
concours solution but it has worked effectively to date.

Tigering around the shores of the big Gitchi Gammi,

Randy Z.
Duluth, MN

From tigerfixer at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 17:21:38 2008
From: tigerfixer at yahoo.com (Bill Martin)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Wine Country Classic
In-Reply-To: <d86d088a0806152317x583f0781s2aa30b4471acf043@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <586346.40747.qm@web63807.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone, and sorry to bomb... but
 Dave Stone and the HSC Tiger went to the wine country classic as did Buck
 Tom Sakai and Dale Akuszewski. On Thursday I get a phone call from Dale
 that he thinks one of his heads is cracked and is done for the weekend.
 Then ten minutes later Dale calls and says that the Hollywood car is 
 done as well. Dave tried to do something pretty cool here, he had Ron
 Dykes come down to the Wine country from his Seattle area home and told
 him to bring his helmet etc.. So Ron shows up with his driving suit etc
 and the same Checkered helmet that he wore when he drove the car for
 Ian back in 1966. If you have ever seen a picture of the 66 ARRC you will
 know what I am talking about. The Stewards said I dont think so Mr Dykes
 so he put another currently rated helment on and went out during thursdays 
 practice. After getting re aquainted with the car that he used to own he 
 started turning faster and faster laps until the motor let go going into
 turn 10. The car is down at Dales as I write this and it ain't pretty when
 the cam comes out in three pieces. If you are going to United stop by 
 Dales and check out his cool operation.
 Bill

From srwick at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 23 18:03:14 2008
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:03:14 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Running hot
References: <007701c8d57f$ac104750$0101a8c0@HomeComputer>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV9686489AA643E711B87C1D8A10@phx.gbl>

The gaskets have one end marked "Front" and it HAS to go to the front or
you'll block
a water passage.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Curt<mailto:choffman9 at cinci.rr.com>
  To: Tiger List<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 3:22 PM
  Subject: [Tigers] Running hot

  Perhaps they installed the intake manifold gaskets incorrectly. I seem to
  recall from the two engines I build that you could put them on either
upside
  down or wrong side and it might block some passaged. But my memory could be
  off here.


  Curt Hoffman

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Mon Jun 23 17:15:17 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:15:17 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear
In-Reply-To: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97231104B7B@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
References: <000a01c8d579$22eee5e0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97231104B7B@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
Message-ID: <000601c8d587$005c9d70$0115d850$@rr.com>

Damn!  Just when I thought my car was ready for the 1500 mile drive, my
clutch master cylinder just threw up all over my feet!

Very luckily, I live just outside of Kansas City which is the home of
Victoria British Ltd.  They have the part and I will be there in the morning
to pick it up myself.  I sure hope it is a direct R&R and there is no drama
with the replacement.  I am thinking about picking up the slave cylinder and
a brake master cylinder for good measure.  I can always return them at a
later date unused.  I am happy the clutch MS died today!

Clutch fixed, I will be on the road early Wednesday morning for the trip to
Big Bear.  I am very excited.

Duke
382002037

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Teepen, Jere
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:50 PM
To: Buck Trippel; Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear

And I would like to add: Anyone not registered at this time can register at
the event.  If you find you are able to attend at the last minute (which is
dang near now!) do not miss this opportunity.  If you would just like to
come
up to spectate at any of the events on any day please do it!  The only day
that will cost anything to spectate (someone please correct me if I am
wrong)
is the Saturday autocross as that is being run on private property and the
flow of people needs to be monitored.

Much more information (and correct information at that)is available at the
C.A.T. website: www.catmbr.org on the events page.

Jere



-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Buck
Trippel
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:36 PM
To: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear

Jay,

Of course it's still on. At last I heard, about 70 cars & 150 registered
participants.

Tiger owners are coming from as far away as South Africa, Europe &
Australia.
Many participants have already arrived in the Southern California area and
some Tigers are already in Big Bear. We just heard from Dave McDermott who
is
enroute towing his rally Tiger. He's currently westbound high in the Rockies
and dreading his gas bill.

I know a bunch of local owners are leaving at the same time on Thursday
morning.

Buck Trippel

----- Original Message -----
From: <Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:26 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear


> Just a few days to go, and I haven't seen any email traffic about it.
> It's
> still on isn't it?  I'm leaving from Ventura either 6 am ish or 10 ish
> on Thursday.  Others?
You are subscribed as jteepen at usatoday.com
You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From gharlowe at comcast.net  Mon Jun 23 18:27:47 2008
From: gharlowe at comcast.net (gharlowe at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:27:47 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating
Message-ID: <000601c8d591$280ffdd0$030010ac@gharlowe9h3kpn>

While chasing down some fuel contamination problems, I removed the
cross-over tube and connecting tubes.  I noticed the Eastwood gas tank
sealant I had applied about 4 years ago was starting to peel off inside the
gas tank.  So I removed the tanks, intending to have the work done
professionally this time.  After a little on-line research I took the tanks
to a Gas Tank Renu franchise (about 1.5 hours away).  Their quote to clean
and recoat both tanks - including an extra $30 per tank to remove the rest
of the Eastwood stuff - was $560.  Doesn't this sound a bit pricey?  I plan
to check around for a local radiator shop and I'll ask some of the local
speed shops/gear heads for some advice as well.



Has anyone had recent experience shipping the tanks to a "known good value"?




Cheers,



Graham

From CoolVT at aol.com  Mon Jun 23 18:47:48 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:47:48 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating
Message-ID: <c47.36c6bbee.35919e34@aol.com>

I think a ReNu franchise did mine.  I would have to look it  up, but I 
believe they quoted me $200 and then ended up charging me $250.   If you want the 
ReNu system I would recommend going on line and calling a few  other of their 
locations.  If you are going to pay about $50 for 2-way  shipping it doesn't 
make that much difference where the outlet is located.   Your quote sounds very 
pricey to me.
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Mon Jun 23 19:42:24 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:42:24 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating
In-Reply-To: <c47.36c6bbee.35919e34@aol.com>
References: <c47.36c6bbee.35919e34@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001101c8d59b$8d054880$fbcac24a@jerry>

Gas tank coatings -

When you have your tank recoated, ask if the coating is alcohol resistant.
When I did mine 12 years ago or so, I did it myself and used some "white
stuff" (can't recall the name of the product) that I purchased at a
motorcycle shop for motorcycle tanks.  There were two options - one for gas
only and one if there's alcohol involved.  Thinking down the road there
would be alcohol in the gas, I opted for the one resistant to alcohol.

I don't know if the flaking was due to that problem, but this may be a
consideration.

Jerry Christopherson

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
CoolVT at aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:48 PM
To: gharlowe at comcast.net; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating

I think a ReNu franchise did mine.  I would have to look it  up, but I 
believe they quoted me $200 and then ended up charging me $250.   If you
want the 
ReNu system I would recommend going on line and calling a few  other of
their 
locations.  If you are going to pay about $50 for 2-way  shipping it doesn't

make that much difference where the outlet is located.   Your quote sounds
very 
pricey to me.
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Mon Jun 23 20:00:00 2008
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:00:00 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Big Bear,
Message-ID: <001a01c8d59e$02d260f0$fbcac24a@jerry>

Listers,

 

Well, I'm leaving TX. first thing in the morning for Big Bear(1270mi). 

 

Hope to meet some of you, to put a face to the names on this list.

 

Be sure to stop by the swap meet I have a truck load of Tiger and Sunbeam
parts I have had for more than 20 years. Time to pass them on to someone
else.

 

See you there.

 

Jerry Christopherson

 

9473187

From dhhall at bellsouth.net  Mon Jun 23 20:12:42 2008
From: dhhall at bellsouth.net (dhhall at bellsouth.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 02:12:42 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating
In-Reply-To: <001101c8d59b$8d054880$fbcac24a@jerry>
References: <c47.36c6bbee.35919e34@aol.com>
	<001101c8d59b$8d054880$fbcac24a@jerry>
Message-ID: <062420080212.13052.48605819000A936B000032FC22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>

I sent out this same question to the group a year or so ago.  The consensus seemed to be that the Eastwood coating had multiple reports of failure, often in dramatic fashion.  The main recommendation was to use Red-Kote by Damon Industries.  I got a gallon delivered to my door from O'Reilly Auto Parts.  Less than a hundred bucks.  An alternative was Bill Hirsch's product.  I also didn't like the outer finish that the Gas Tank Renu folks use.   David 
-------------- Original message from "Jerry" <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>: -------------- 


> Gas tank coatings - 
> 
> When you have your tank recoated, ask if the coating is alcohol resistant. 
> When I did mine 12 years ago or so, I did it myself and used some "white 
> stuff" (can't recall the name of the product) that I purchased at a 
> motorcycle shop for motorcycle tanks. There were two options - one for gas 
> only and one if there's alcohol involved. Thinking down the road there 
> would be alcohol in the gas, I opted for the one resistant to alcohol. 
> 
> I don't know if the flaking was due to that problem, but this may be a 
> consideration. 
> 
> Jerry Christopherson 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net 
> [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of 
> CoolVT at aol.com 
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:48 PM 
> To: gharlowe at comcast.net; tigers at autox.team.net 
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating 
> 
> I think a ReNu franchise did mine. I would have to look it up, but I 
> believe they quoted me $200 and then ended up charging me $250. If you 
> want the 
> ReNu system I would recommend going on line and calling a few other of 
> their 
> locations. If you are going to pay about $50 for 2-way shipping it doesn't 
> 
> make that much difference where the outlet is located. Your quote sounds 
> very 
> pricey to me. 
> M 
> 
> 
> 
> **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
> fuel-efficient used cars. 
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) 
> You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net 
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers 
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> 
> You are subscribed as dhhall at bellsouth.net 
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers 
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From maliburevue at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 20:41:41 2008
From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating
In-Reply-To: <062420080212.13052.48605819000A936B000032FC22230650029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF04040E08080B@att.net>
Message-ID: <411679.76790.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I used gas tank sealer from J.C. Whitney. I just checked and it is $50 a
quart, probably need a quart per tank. I vaguely remember I used about 1/2
gallon for both of mine. It is white and works just fine after 5 years. I
first etched my tanks with muratic acid to get out all the factory coating
which had peeled away in spots after fourty 40 years. You can get muratic
acid at most hardware stores. They sell it for cleaning stone work and pools.
It's dangerous stuff, so use a face mask, breathing aparatus and proper
gloves. Do not get in on you or breath it in!!! I rinsed heavily and
neutralized with a baking soda and water mix, then coated. It's kind a slurry
so you have to continually rotate the tanks, so it doesn't all setup on one
side only. It takes several hours of periodically rotating the tanks before
you can leave it overnight. Although I etched my corner tubes and crossover
tube, I did not coat it, since I did not want to reduce the size of
 the fuel line outlet.
 
Gary

From TIGEROOTES at aol.com  Mon Jun 23 21:49:46 2008
From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:49:46 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] using "The Club"
Message-ID: <cd8.2fb3af20.3591c8da@aol.com>

Randy wrote:

> I employ a Club (locking on the brake pedal and
> steering wheel) and, if I'm going to be gone and out-of-sight for awhile,

Randy,
       The only thing holding the piston and associated parts inside your 
brake master cylinder is a snap ring and about 3/16" of aluminum at the very end 
of the brake master cylinder's bore.  If someone tries to use force to remove 
your 'Club', that small area of aluminum will tear away from the cylinder and 
the brake pedal will jump up under the dashboard, and the reservoir will dump 
its contents on your floor.  I saw the result of what I am reporting about 15 
years back in a Tiger and I sold the owner a new brake master cylinder since 
the original was not repairable (price-wise).
Jim Leach    Pacific Tiger Club     Seattle


**************
Gas prices getting 
you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From mark.rense at ge.com  Tue Jun 24 06:15:11 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:15:11 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating
In-Reply-To: <000601c8d591$280ffdd0$030010ac@gharlowe9h3kpn>
References: <000601c8d591$280ffdd0$030010ac@gharlowe9h3kpn>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04D8AD3D@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Graham, I just had my tanks and cross-overs done by Doug Jennings (Tiger
Automotive) this spring. The tanks are boiled out, interiors coated,
then exteriors painted with an epoxy coating. Total cost including
shipping was $370. If you are going to this trouble, also consider
replacing the rubber pieces, I found a very small split in the vent
hose.

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: gharlowe at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:28 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Tank Recoating

While chasing down some fuel contamination problems, I removed the
cross-over tube and connecting tubes.

Has anyone had recent experience shipping the tanks to a "known good
value"?

Cheers,

Graham

From Carmods at aol.com  Tue Jun 24 07:13:16 2008
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:13:16 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Running hot
Message-ID: <c2f.3776e4cc.35924cec@aol.com>

_choffman9 at cinci.rr.com_ (mailto:choffman9 at cinci.rr.com)   writes:

Now the  engine runs hot. I mean real hot. On the 78 degree day it was
running up to  225 degrees on the streets with just a few lights.


Curt,
That sounds like a head gasket that is upside down or the wrong gasket that  
is blocking holes. It could also be a missing spring in the bottom radiator  
hose.
 
John Logan



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk  Tue Jun 24 08:02:11 2008
From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:02:11 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam brochures and stuff
In-Reply-To: <d86d088a0806231556g83657ecgc43c7b130de86c70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d86d088a0806231556g83657ecgc43c7b130de86c70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SngpoqGj5PYIFwLL@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>

Michael,

good idea.

I have put a few pages up from the Sunbeam salesman's confidential 
guide.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/kbd23c/Alpine%20salemans%20guide/

I will add some more when I get chance.

If anyone has a central location to add these, I will send them direct 
for uploading.


I also have the guides for series 2 and 3.

A very rare Rootes guide for establishing your 'new' Rootes Dealership

Some service schedule and time booking manuals


regards


Jeff



In message <d86d088a0806231556g83657ecgc43c7b130de86c70 at mail.gmail.com>, 
michael king <michael.s.king at gmail.com> writes
>Guys, the web is a valuable source of knowledge, dont just keep your info
>lockaed away. It helps the marque if more info is available. Its nice to
>have an original brochure/book/document.. but its even better if you share
>it.. and you still have the original.. so dont worry.
>
>here are some sunbeam links i have up on the net, yuo may have to hunt
>around in the avtras and shoebox a bit:
>http://community.webshots.com/user/alpine_64
>
>here is another sunbeamer who has done a great job of putting up info:
>http://www.tiger260.ch/Oldies.htm
>

-- 
Jeff Howarth

From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk  Tue Jun 24 09:41:31 2008
From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:41:31 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam brochures and stuff
In-Reply-To: <SngpoqGj5PYIFwLL@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>
References: <d86d088a0806231556g83657ecgc43c7b130de86c70@mail.gmail.com>
	<SngpoqGj5PYIFwLL@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <q5iHP2HrWRYIFwN5@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>

oops


link that works sorry everyone:


http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/kbd23c/Sunbeam%20Alpine%20salemans
%20guide/

regards

Jeff


In message <SngpoqGj5PYIFwLL at v8tiger.demon.co.uk>, Jeff Howarth 
<jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk> writes
>Michael,
>
>good idea.
>
>I have put a few pages up from the Sunbeam salesman's confidential
>guide.
>
>http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/kbd23c/Alpine%20salemans%20guide/
>
>I will add some more when I get chance.
>
>If anyone has a central location to add these, I will send them direct
>for uploading.
>
>
>I also have the guides for series 2 and 3.
>
>A very rare Rootes guide for establishing your 'new' Rootes Dealership
>
>Some service schedule and time booking manuals
>
>
>regards
>
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>In message <d86d088a0806231556g83657ecgc43c7b130de86c70 at mail.gmail.com>,
>michael king <michael.s.king at gmail.com> writes
>>Guys, the web is a valuable source of knowledge, dont just keep your info
>>lockaed away. It helps the marque if more info is available. Its nice to
>>have an original brochure/book/document.. but its even better if you share
>>it.. and you still have the original.. so dont worry.
>>
>>here are some sunbeam links i have up on the net, yuo may have to hunt
>>around in the avtras and shoebox a bit:
>>http://community.webshots.com/user/alpine_64
>>
>>here is another sunbeamer who has done a great job of putting up info:
>>http://www.tiger260.ch/Oldies.htm
>>
>

-- 
Jeff Howarth

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Tue Jun 24 12:45:32 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:45:32 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear
In-Reply-To: <000601c8d587$005c9d70$0115d850$@rr.com>
References: <000a01c8d579$22eee5e0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97231104B7B@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com>
	<000601c8d587$005c9d70$0115d850$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8d62a$7edafb30$7c90f190$@rr.com>

The car is ready (again).  I picked up a clutch and brake master cylinder
from BV this morning.  By 1400 both were installed with the help of my 11
year old son.  That is a job that you can not do yourself. 

All that's left is some grocery shopping for road food and to put the
hardtop on.  Will be blasting off west at 0600 tomorrow.  See you all soon.
Look for the very dirty red Tiger and driver from Kansas.

Duke 

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Duke
Samouce
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:15 PM
To: 'Teepen, Jere'; 'Buck Trippel'; Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com;
tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear

Damn!  Just when I thought my car was ready for the 1500 mile drive, my
clutch master cylinder just threw up all over my feet!

Very luckily, I live just outside of Kansas City which is the home of
Victoria British Ltd.  They have the part and I will be there in the morning
to pick it up myself.  I sure hope it is a direct R&R and there is no drama
with the replacement.  I am thinking about picking up the slave cylinder and
a brake master cylinder for good measure.  I can always return them at a
later date unused.  I am happy the clutch MS died today!

Clutch fixed, I will be on the road early Wednesday morning for the trip to
Big Bear.  I am very excited.

Duke
382002037

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Tue Jun 24 15:42:44 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:42:44 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam brochures and stuff
In-Reply-To: <SngpoqGj5PYIFwLL@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>
References: <d86d088a0806231556g83657ecgc43c7b130de86c70@mail.gmail.com>
	<SngpoqGj5PYIFwLL@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <48616A54.1010100@SoCal.rr.com>

Jeff,

Thanks for the link.  Sorry there was no page number given for your car, 
and some 100 pages.  Got side-tracked the Angelina Jolie pic pages, and 
wasn't able to tear away.   ;-)

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Jeff Howarth wrote:
> Michael,
>
> good idea.
>
> I have put a few pages up from the Sunbeam salesman's confidential 
> guide.
>
> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/kbd23c/Alpine%20salemans%20guide/
>
>
>
> Jeff

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Tue Jun 24 17:36:03 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:36:03 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger images
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806241636q2a70edd7lfbe4b95e1e21994c@mail.gmail.com>

Guys,

Some links you might like:

1280x1024 desktops:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2655651360054462410SdzWeD
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2625345630054462410TnAPwK

high res tiger brochure for a4/a3 print
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2276233220054462410Shqpwp

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From mmichels at socal.rr.com  Tue Jun 24 20:20:26 2008
From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:20:26 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear
References: <OF23A57103.28A335B9-ON88257471.00654C0B@countrywide.com>
Message-ID: <014501c8d66a$08309c20$6401a8c0@delldimension>

Definitely on. Many of us are heading up about the same time on Thursday AM. 
See you there.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:26 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear


> Just a few days to go, and I haven't seen any email traffic about it. 
> It's
> still on isn't it?  I'm leaving from Ventura either 6 am ish or 10 ish on
> Thursday.  Others?
>
>
>
> ======================================================================
>
> Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with 
> this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use 
> of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial 
> Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the 
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the 
> information contained in or transmitted with the communication or 
> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly 
> prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, 
> please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the 
> original message and any copy of it in your possession.
>
> ======================================================================
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From laurin212 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 24 21:09:07 2008
From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:09:07 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam brochures and stuff
References: <d86d088a0806231556g83657ecgc43c7b130de86c70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002501c8d670$d5049e30$6501a8c0@PETERHOME>

this is great stuff, thanks for the links

peter

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "michael king" <michael.s.king at gmail.com>
To: "Tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:56 PM
Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam brochures and stuff


> Guys, the web is a valuable source of knowledge, dont just keep your info
> lockaed away. It helps the marque if more info is available. Its nice to
> have an original brochure/book/document.. but its even better if you share
> it.. and you still have the original.. so dont worry.
>
> here are some sunbeam links i have up on the net, yuo may have to hunt
> around in the avtras and shoebox a bit:
> http://community.webshots.com/user/alpine_64
>
> here is another sunbeamer who has done a great job of putting up info:
> http://www.tiger260.ch/Oldies.htm

From deiland1 at elp.rr.com  Tue Jun 24 23:21:12 2008
From: deiland1 at elp.rr.com (Dan Eiland)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:21:12 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Not Tiger related but Jensen Related
Message-ID: <003701c8d683$49145bf0$f6e97846@owner95291b1f9>

I'm modifying a 1974 Jensen Healey (made at the same factory where the Tiger 
was made) and I'm converting the transmission to a Ford T5 from a 94-95 
Mustang with the long input shaft. My question concerns the speedometer 
cable set-up. My transmission came with an electronic sender and it fits too 
close to the tunnel wall for comfort. I was wondering if there is an angle 
drive that I could use to change the direction before installing the 
electronic sender? You can check out photos of my long term project at the 
site below my name.

Dan Eiland
El Paso, TX
Ex-Tiger Owner
1974 JH 15069
1991 Alfa Romeo Spider
http://jhppg.com/gallery/Texas-Critter 

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 25 05:36:20 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:36:20 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Yellow Stripe Servo Hose
Message-ID: <000c01c8d6b7$b09a2370$6501a8c0@your03667082de>

I've been looking for a source for the yellow stripe servo hose and finally
found one:.   UK Ebay Item number: 270247707806.  I just got one and it looks
very close to the period photos of the servo hose.

There may be other sources but I never found them.


                                                                             
                                                                Jeff

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Wed Jun 25 08:10:34 2008
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:10:34 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
Message-ID: <20080625.101034.18801.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>

 Hypothetical question???
If you had an unlimited amount of money that you could spend on a Tiger
restoration what would you do???

What MK would you choose for the restoration???
What shop would you use for the restoration????
____________________________________________________________
Need legal advice?  Click here to find a top notch lawyer.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oJBLslBC5ofyM8jNOHCNPtB3sz
kGgFyCfB1TOVCafEhne2u/

From achd73 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 25 08:13:03 2008
From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:13:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Not Tiger related but Jensen Related
In-Reply-To: <003701c8d683$49145bf0$f6e97846@owner95291b1f9>
Message-ID: <412235.2158.qm@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dan- ask Tom Hall. I needed a reversing unit as Dale A. over lookeed changing the speedo drive out of the T5 when he built my AMC cpnversion unit and if connected the speedo would turn the wrong direction. I saved the site in my favorites BUT on my laptop which is now broken(charging problem- can be fixed) the site had all kinds of items to correct speedo problems- 90 degree, 90 degree that reversed- etc etc.I may have the email saved in my sunbeam folder and will look but Tom would be the person to ask. regards, TtT
PS- looking at the color of the gear insode the T-5 tells the direction of rotation(Dale A. knows the colorvs. rotation) and you might want to check that out as well.


--- On Wed, 6/25/08, Dan Eiland <deiland1 at elp.rr.com> wrote:

> From: Dan Eiland <deiland1 at elp.rr.com>
> Subject: [Tigers] Not Tiger related but Jensen Related
> To: "Tiger List" <tigers at autox.team.net>
> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 12:21 AM
> I'm modifying a 1974 Jensen Healey (made at the same
> factory where the Tiger 
> was made) and I'm converting the transmission to a Ford
> T5 from a 94-95 
> Mustang with the long input shaft. My question concerns the
> speedometer 
> cable set-up. My transmission came with an electronic
> sender and it fits too 
> close to the tunnel wall for comfort. I was wondering if
> there is an angle 
> drive that I could use to change the direction before
> installing the 
> electronic sender? You can check out photos of my long term
> project at the 
> site below my name.
> 
> Dan Eiland
> El Paso, TX
> Ex-Tiger Owner
> 1974 JH 15069
> 1991 Alfa Romeo Spider
> http://jhppg.com/gallery/Texas-Critter 
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Wed Jun 25 08:17:35 2008
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:17:35 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] Atlanta
Message-ID: <20080625.101735.18801.2@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>

I will be in Atlanta for business this Friday and Saturday, any Tigers in the
area that would like to come by and give me a joy ride??? My Tiger is a part
for restoration so Jones'n for a Tiger ride. I have an Alpine but it's just
not the same.

Not sure of my free time until I get there so would have to coordinate times.

Tim
B9470149
____________________________________________________________
Scan, remove and block Spyware. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mEzAnJAnPJb2PZKk4sTcewJLNl
nAZ1IuTaHXeDQKK7kxRC6/

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Wed Jun 25 08:46:21 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:46:21 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F0D8@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

That would depend on the objective of the restoration. If you're going
(back) to stock or showroom condition, then the money required pretty
much has an upper limit where you've replaced all the parts with the
best available reproductions or NOS parts, and you've cleaned,
disassembled, and refurbished everything else. The bodywork required can
be a significant cost adder but that depends on the individual car. A
cost-no-object restoration would probably involve things like opening up
the rocker panel joints so you can verify that the integrity of the
internal panels is good, and then welding things back together using the
factory process. Some restorers will do that as part of their regular
procedure... It's why some body shops charge more money than others, and
it depends on how much they know about Sunbeams and the Tiger in
particular. Going to a Tiger restoration specialist is money well spent,
since they will know what is generally required and the particular
points to pay attention to, without burning time and effort on
unnecessary things.

As Tom Hall remarked a couple of weeks ago (regarding an eBay car) the
Tiger is getting enough attention, that the non-specialist shops are
restoring some, and in the process they may not address some of the
basic chassis issues that we know about. Even if the restoration was
"back to stock" I'd make sure that all the known weak points were
inspected and repaired and/or reinforced, in the interest of safety.

If you're doing a Tiger with modifications then the sky is the limit. I
think that several of the List members have pushed the envelope pretty
far on the powertrain and suspension development front, and most of
their components are either commercially available or can be fabricated
to order, so you just have to decide how unlimited the budget is... A
lot of your restoration budget should go towards educating yourself. At
least so you can do proper maintenance on all the new goodies.

Theo

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Wed Jun 25 12:08:45 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:08:45 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <20080625.101034.18801.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080625.101034.18801.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <486289AD.8030708@SoCal.rr.com>

Tim,

Of course an unlimited budget is nice, you wouldn't "overdo it", because 
that is probably NOT the way you got your money (or it will soon be 
gone). Having money does not make one foolish, nor does "over restoring" 
or "kustomizing" make any sense if future resale is in mind.

However, for those desiring good work, I would rely on Steve Alcala, in 
SoCal (http://www.tigersunited.com/articles/dm-lister/MountjoyLemans.asp).

For mechanical work, Dale's Restorations, (Dale Akuszewski) also in 
SoCal area.
(http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-rearsusp.asp)

These are NOT the cheapest artists in this arena, but they are well 
known for their work.  I have had personal work done from both.

There are more well-known Tiger Specialists in the Midwest and East 
Coast,  but have not had personal experience with them.  TE/AE members 
can probably recommend. (http://www.teae.org/)

There are specialist in specific restored items, but that's for the 
do-it-yourselfers, The recommended parties can purchase and install the 
necessary components for you.

As for the car, an original Tiger Mk II is the rarest, and already leads 
the resale list price.

BTW:  Who died? ;-)

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



un-cole-a at juno.com wrote:
>  Hypothetical question???
> If you had an unlimited amount of money that you could spend on a Tiger
> restoration what would you do???
>
> What MK would you choose for the restoration???
> What shop would you use for the restoration????
> ____________________________________________________________

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Wed Jun 25 12:30:49 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:30:49 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <486289AD.8030708@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <20080625.101034.18801.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
	<486289AD.8030708@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <48628ED9.1070709@SoCal.rr.com>

Some nice Tiger pics, and a "reserve not met" of $27,223.45 was not 
met.  And 45 cents????

(http://bringatrailer.com/2007/07/15/black-plate-66-sunbeam-tiger-with-68k-miles/)

Steve
___

Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From sralsten at ca.rr.com  Wed Jun 25 13:53:34 2008
From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:53:34 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Big Bear
Message-ID: <5076185.195251214423614734.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web26-z02>

I'll be the guy with the Honda Civic or maybe my S2000, camera, and lots of questions at the concourse on Friday. Gathering information and ideas for my Tiger purchase. Hope to meet some of you there.

Steve Ralsten




All that's left is some grocery shopping for road food and to put the 
hardtop on.  Will be blasting off west at 0600 tomorrow.  See you all soon. 
Look for the very dirty red Tiger and driver from Kansas. 
 
Duke

From laurin212 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 25 14:54:53 2008
From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] tranny wanted
Message-ID: <999523.71972.qm@web53609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

anyone know of an original tiger tranny for sale?  i'd like to buy one.  i plan to rebuild it with a wide ratio 4-speed set up.  pls email if you have one or info.

thks so much!
peter

From bomber44 at comcast.net  Wed Jun 25 15:55:09 2008
From: bomber44 at comcast.net (Rob Guerra)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:55:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <486289AD.8030708@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <C4880CCD.442%bomber44@comcast.net>

One should also add Bill Martin from Rootes group depot - redwood city to
the list

On 6/25/08 11:08 AM, "Steve Laifman" <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com> wrote:

> Tim,
> 
> Of course an unlimited budget is nice, you wouldn't "overdo it", because
> that is probably NOT the way you got your money (or it will soon be
> gone). Having money does not make one foolish, nor does "over restoring"
> or "kustomizing" make any sense if future resale is in mind.
> 
> However, for those desiring good work, I would rely on Steve Alcala, in
> SoCal (http://www.tigersunited.com/articles/dm-lister/MountjoyLemans.asp).
> 
> For mechanical work, Dale's Restorations, (Dale Akuszewski) also in
> SoCal area.
> (http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-rearsusp.asp)
> 
> These are NOT the cheapest artists in this arena, but they are well
> known for their work.  I have had personal work done from both.
> 
> There are more well-known Tiger Specialists in the Midwest and East
> Coast,  but have not had personal experience with them.  TE/AE members

From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Wed Jun 25 16:25:10 2008
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:25:10 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
Message-ID: <d62.1613c866.35941fc6@aol.com>

I would suggest you buy a restored Tiger from Dale.  Give a fellow  owner
a chance to make a buck and get a good car you can drive now.
Ask anyone in the business.  Restoration is a b.... and you will  never
get back what your labor really was.  I hate busting my keister  working
on a guys cars for hours and then having him look hurt when I tell  him.
what the labor should be.  
 
Snapped bolts, broken parts, busted knuckles etc.  I work on my  own
cars and a few friends.  Let the checkbook fixers try fixing it  themselves
 
Just bellyaching as I wish I were heading to Bir Bear.
 
Dave
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 6/25/2008 1:31:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com writes:

Some  nice Tiger pics, and a "reserve not met" of $27,223.45 was not 
met.   And 45  cents????

(http://bringatrailer.com/2007/07/15/black-plate-66-sunbeam-tiger-with-68k-mil
es/)

Steve
___

Steve  Laifman
Editor -  TigersUnited.com
You are subscribed as  djoh797014 at aol.com

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**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Swallach at capstoneindustries.com  Wed Jun 25 16:44:17 2008
From: Swallach at capstoneindustries.com (Stewart Wallach)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:44:17 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
Message-ID: <200806251844487.SM03692@[10.10.107.4]>

Chris Richards -Arcata Ca--(small operation / nice work /reasonable but takes
his time)
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rob Guerra" <bomber44 at comcast.net>
Sent 6/25/2008 5:55:09 PM
To: "un-cole-a at juno.com" <un-cole-a at juno.com>
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???One should also add Bill Martin
from Rootes group depot - redwood city to
the list
On 6/25/08 11:08 AM, "Steve Laifman" <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Of course an unlimited budget is nice, you wouldn't "overdo it", because
> that is probably NOT the way you got your money (or it will soon be
> gone). Having money does not make one foolish, nor does "over restoring"
> or "kustomizing" make any sense if future resale is in mind.
>
> However, for those desiring good work, I would rely on Steve Alcala, in
> SoCal (http://www.tigersunited.com/articles/dm-lister/MountjoyLemans.asp).
>
> For mechanical work, Dale's Restorations, (Dale Akuszewski) also in
> SoCal area.
> (http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-rearsusp.asp)
>
> These are NOT the cheapest artists in this arena, but they are well
> known for their work.  I have had personal work done from both.
>
> There are more well-known Tiger Specialists in the Midwest and East
> Coast,  but have not had personal experience with them.  TE/AE members
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From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk  Wed Jun 25 16:44:39 2008
From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:44:39 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <20080625.101034.18801.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080625.101034.18801.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <KGt$wJOXpsYIFw6j@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>

well the ultra rare  Mk3 of course.

In secret prototype stage by Rootes/Chrysler and planned to have been 
released in 1971:

302 - 400 BHP  twin Holleys or quad webers
5 speed
LAT options as standard
discs all round - vented fronts
NOS fun button   (nitrous oxide injection)
Air con
air bags
Diplomatic immunity plates for speeding fines
A "Get Smart" hood mounted congestion eliminator !



and of course......
50 years supply of gas at 71 prices


I wish my un-cole  had done the lottery :-)


regards


Jeff
(looking for a very nice tiger)




In message <20080625.101034.18801.1 at webmail19.vgs.untd.com>, 
"un-cole-a at juno.com" <un-cole-a at juno.com> writes
> Hypothetical question???
>If you had an unlimited amount of money that you could spend on a Tiger
>restoration what would you do???
>
>What MK would you choose for the restoration???
>What shop would you use for the restoration????
>____________________________________________________________
>Need legal advice?  Click here to find a top notch lawyer.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oJBLslBC5ofyM8jNOHCNPtB3sz
>kGgFyCfB1TOVCafEhne2u/
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>You are subscribed as jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
>http://www.team.net/archive
>

-- 
Jeff Howarth

From sganz at pacbell.net  Wed Jun 25 18:25:45 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:25:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear
Message-ID: <701444.64202.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Tiger United Autocrosser's -
I'm going to try to bring video setup for someone to use as I want to get some video from the autocross. Anyone interested in running the in-car-camera at the event? I have a ChaseCam DVR and a suction cup mount or regular camera mount lipstick cam (small). If so I'll try to get in early Saturday to get it on the car. 
Sandy

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Wed Jun 25 19:06:00 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:06:00 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers United Big Bear
In-Reply-To: <701444.64202.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <701444.64202.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806251806i72c5c540wd0991d6ff9a63356@mail.gmail.com>

Someone put up footage from last years Auto-X on you-tube... would be great
to do that again.

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net  Wed Jun 25 19:47:23 2008
From: sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net (David Sosna)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:47:23 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <20080625.101034.18801.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080625.101034.18801.1@webmail19.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4862F52B.4030504@cox.net>

Uhhh...
Buy a Ruddspeed  A.C. Ace.
:-)
Best Regards
David Sosna

un-cole-a at juno.com wrote:
>  Hypothetical question???
> If you had an unlimited amount of money that you could spend on a Tiger
> restoration what would you do???

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Wed Jun 25 20:47:33 2008
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:47:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <4862F52B.4030504@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000001c8d736$fc52f4c0$6601a8c0@Brennan>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the fantasies expressed so far seem
to center around writing large checks to other folks to produce crazy
perfect Tigers for them.  Are we getting soft?

Isn't there anyone out there who would use their fantasy budget to buy a
bunch of neat tools, maybe build a dedicated garage with a lift, and
start learning new skills and building their own crazy Tiger?  Crazy
could mean either restored to 100 point original, or modified the way
they want, or whatever in between. 

Writing checks may be easier, but nothing beats the sense of
accomplishment when you do it yourself.

Stu 

From JParent4 at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jun 25 20:55:35 2008
From: JParent4 at tampabay.rr.com (Jim Parent)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:55:35 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d736$fc52f4c0$6601a8c0@Brennan>
Message-ID: <00db01c8d738$1b6e8f30$c300a8c0@T60>

I second this motion.

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jparent4=tampabay.rr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jparent4=tampabay.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Stu Brennan
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:48 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the fantasies expressed so far seem
to center around writing large checks to other folks to produce crazy
perfect Tigers for them.  Are we getting soft?

Isn't there anyone out there who would use their fantasy budget to buy a
bunch of neat tools, maybe build a dedicated garage with a lift, and
start learning new skills and building their own crazy Tiger?  Crazy
could mean either restored to 100 point original, or modified the way
they want, or whatever in between. 

Writing checks may be easier, but nothing beats the sense of
accomplishment when you do it yourself.

Stu 
You are subscribed as jparent4 at tampabay.rr.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1519 - Release Date: 6/25/2008
4:13 PM

From arado7 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jun 25 20:58:45 2008
From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:58:45 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
References: <000001c8d736$fc52f4c0$6601a8c0@Brennan>
Message-ID: <003801c8d738$8cd6d8d0$6401a8c0@GMI>

That's exactly what I did in 2000..Restored an MGA, Alfa Spyder, Tr3a, 
Norton Roadster and keep the Tiger to snuff...Lift is a two post 12k lb, 
Garage was doubled in size.contiguous due to zoning. Regards,  Gary 
B9472283
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stu Brennan" <stubrennan at comcast.net>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the fantasies expressed so far seem
> to center around writing large checks to other folks to produce crazy
> perfect Tigers for them.  Are we getting soft?
>
> Isn't there anyone out there who would use their fantasy budget to buy a
> bunch of neat tools, maybe build a dedicated garage with a lift, and
> start learning new skills and building their own crazy Tiger?  Crazy
> could mean either restored to 100 point original, or modified the way
> they want, or whatever in between.
>
> Writing checks may be easier, but nothing beats the sense of
> accomplishment when you do it yourself.
>
> Stu
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as arado7 at sbcglobal.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From srwick at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 26 03:10:44 2008
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:10:44 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
References: <000001c8d736$fc52f4c0$6601a8c0@Brennan>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV5CF4D6F9635DBAA41E1A7D8A30@phx.gbl>

I built (myself) a 24 x 36 shop, 10 foot walls, vaulted ceiling, oversized
doors, 4 post lift, industrial ceiling fans,
fire alarm system, gas heat, 110v outlets every 6 feet, 3 separate 220 lines,
piped air. I'm learning the
fine points of building your own panels for rust repair on another project at
the moment, because I have
a limited budget and feel my attention to detail is greater than someone
getting paid to get the job done
and out the door.

Steve (in N. Id.)

1965 Sunbeam Tiger
1968 California Special Mustang
1969 Fairlane 500 Convertible
1971 Boss 351 Mustang
1973 "Q" code Mach 1 Mustang
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Stu Brennan<mailto:stubrennan at comcast.net>
  To: tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???


  Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the fantasies expressed so far seem
  to center around writing large checks to other folks to produce crazy
  perfect Tigers for them.  Are we getting soft?

  Isn't there anyone out there who would use their fantasy budget to buy a
  bunch of neat tools, maybe build a dedicated garage with a lift, and
  start learning new skills and building their own crazy Tiger?  Crazy
  could mean either restored to 100 point original, or modified the way
  they want, or whatever in between.

  Writing checks may be easier, but nothing beats the sense of
  accomplishment when you do it yourself.

  Stu
  _______________________________________________
  Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

  You are subscribed as srwick at hotmail.com<mailto:srwick at hotmail.com>

  Tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:Tigers at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers<http://autox.team.net/mailman
/listinfo/tigers>

  http://www.team.net/archive<http://www.team.net/archive>

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Thu Jun 26 08:09:02 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:09:02 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F0E0@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

That was how the original question was phrased... "who would you use".

I gave some general pointers to what kind of operations you'd look for,
but it's not really my cup of tea. I had an engine failure about six
years ago, and since then have done some significant work on my Tiger to
replace the engine, transmission, brakes, and front suspension. No doubt
I could have farmed all the work out to someone local or to one of the
better-known Tiger places, and it would have been back on the road years
ago... But it wouldn't be the same. Actually, it would be the same. I'd
have just another Tiger restored by XYZ Tiger Specialists or using all
of so-and-so's parts. Not that there's anything wrong with that... But
I'd rather design and build something myself.

Theo
-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Stu Brennan
Sent: June 25, 2008 8:48 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the fantasies expressed so far seem
to center around writing large checks to other folks to produce crazy
perfect Tigers for them.  Are we getting soft?

Isn't there anyone out there who would use their fantasy budget to buy a
bunch of neat tools, maybe build a dedicated garage with a lift, and
start learning new skills and building their own crazy Tiger?  Crazy
could mean either restored to 100 point original, or modified the way
they want, or whatever in between.

Writing checks may be easier, but nothing beats the sense of
accomplishment when you do it yourself.

Stu
You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
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http://www.team.net/archive

From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Jun 26 08:27:55 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:27:55 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]  Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d736$fc52f4c0$6601a8c0@Brennan>
Message-ID: <20080626142901.KAMQ4495.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

I have to agree with this 100%.  Nothing is more satisfying than doing it
yourself no matter how much money you have.  Soon a person gets old and has
plenty of money but can't do the work.  I would trade one for the other
anytime because the fun of doing it is way more than the fun of having. --
Bill --


Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the fantasies expressed so far seem
to center around writing large checks to other folks to produce crazy
perfect Tigers for them.  Are we getting soft?

Isn't there anyone out there who would use their fantasy budget to buy a
bunch of neat tools, maybe build a dedicated garage with a lift, and
start learning new skills and building their own crazy Tiger?  Crazy
could mean either restored to 100 point original, or modified the way
they want, or whatever in between. 

Writing checks may be easier, but nothing beats the sense of
accomplishment when you do it yourself.

Stu 
_______________________________________________

From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Jun 26 09:10:48 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:10:48 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]   Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <20080626144541.XGBT9455.aarpub10.charter.net@QMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20080626151154.NDHD3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

The old way of welding sheet metal with acetylene is tough and takes a lot
of practice but with a mig welder a person can learn to weld quickly.  It is
as easy as using a caulking gun and the hardest part is getting it adjusted
correctly.  Once adjusted it works easy every time to the point that a
person can weld a dot or spot weld without a hood by turning their face away
and pressing the button. -- Bill --

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc James Small [mailto:marcsmall at comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:44 AM
To: William Lau
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???

At 10:27 AM 6/26/2008, William Lau wrote:
 >I have to agree with this 100%.  Nothing is more satisfying than doing it
 >yourself no matter how much money you have.  Soon a person gets old and
has
 >plenty of money but can't do the work.  I would trade one for the other
 >anytime because the fun of doing it is way more than the fun of having. --

I will dissent.  I have HAD to do far too much
work on far too many cars back in the days of
poverty.  I wouldn't mind having a really grand
garage and supervise the work, but only if I had
enough money to hire a couple of full-time
worker-bees.  As it is, if I won the Lottery, I'd
probably send it to White Post.

Besides, I never could weld a decent weld despite
thirty-five years of trying to do so.

Shoemaker, stick to your last!

Marc


msmall at aya.yale.edu
Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir!

From mark.rense at ge.com  Thu Jun 26 09:31:33 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:31:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <20080626151154.NDHD3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
References: <20080626144541.XGBT9455.aarpub10.charter.net@QMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<20080626151154.NDHD3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04DE59FC@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Yes, but can you certify it to NAVSHIPS 250-1500?

:>)

-----Original Message-----
From: William Lau
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:11 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???

The old way of welding sheet metal with acetylene is tough and takes a
lot of practice but with a mig welder a person can learn to weld
quickly.  It is as easy as using a caulking gun and the hardest part is
getting it adjusted correctly.  Once adjusted it works easy every time
to the point that a person can weld a dot or spot weld without a hood by
turning their face away and pressing the button. -- Bill --

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Jun 26 11:15:49 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:15:49 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
Message-ID: <c20.3cdcc652.359528c5@aol.com>

Has anyone been able to replace the oil pressure sender without  removing the 
dash?  With the  steering column bracing in the way I  can't get a flare 
wrench ( or any wrench) on the securing nut.  Reaching  the gauge attaching nuts 
doesn't seem any easier. So, I can't pull the pressure  gauge out.   I 
considered removing either the speedometer or tach.  hoping that I might be able to 
reach things from the front of the dash, but that  route doesn't seem very 
promising either.  Help!!!!!
Mark



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From Greg.Koss at TRW.COM  Thu Jun 26 11:29:51 2008
From: Greg.Koss at TRW.COM (Greg Koss)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:29:51 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
In-Reply-To: <c20.3cdcc652.359528c5@aol.com>
References: <c20.3cdcc652.359528c5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <486399CF.880C.0076.0@TRW.COM>

Assuming you mean oil pressure gauge, you could undo oil pressure line at
block and pull gauge out of dash.

>>> <CoolVT at aol.com> 6/26/2008 1:15 PM >>>
Has anyone been able to replace the oil pressure sender without  removing the
dash?  With the  steering column bracing in the way I  can't get a flare
wrench ( or any wrench) on the securing nut.  Reaching  the gauge attaching
nuts
doesn't seem any easier. So, I can't pull the pressure  gauge out.   I
considered removing either the speedometer or tach.  hoping that I might be
able to
reach things from the front of the dash, but that  route doesn't seem very
promising either.  Help!!!!!
Mark

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Jun 26 11:32:46 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:32:46 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
Message-ID: <c09.3b4fa33c.35952cbe@aol.com>

Greg,
To get the gauge out of the dash you have to be able to get to the  2 nuts 
holding the gauge in.  Getting to those 2 nuts is no easier than  getting to the 
flare nut.
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Jun 26 12:53:17 2008
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:53:17 -0500
Subject: [Tigers]  Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04DE59FC@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <20080626185424.ZETB3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

Que?  They don't have to float when you're finished. -- Bill --

Yes, but can you certify it to NAVSHIPS 250-1500?


:>)

-----Original Message-----
From: William Lau
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:11 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???

The old way of welding sheet metal with acetylene is tough and takes a
lot of practice but with a mig welder a person can learn to weld
quickly.  It is as easy as using a caulking gun and the hardest part is
getting it adjusted correctly.  Once adjusted it works easy every time
to the point that a person can weld a dot or spot weld without a hood by
turning their face away and pressing the button. -- Bill --
_______________________________________________

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Thu Jun 26 13:08:40 2008
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:08:40 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
In-Reply-To: <c09.3b4fa33c.35952cbe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000201c8d7c0$0be48f00$6601a8c0@Brennan>

I did this a bunch of years back when I had the tach and speedo out.  I
was replacing the tube, that was still original.  Being vertically
challenged has its advantages, and I was able to get a hand in there to
undo the nuts on the u-bracket and get it out.  I can't remember all the
details, but I think I may have had the steering column cover off, too.
And with the additional clearance with the tach and speedo out, I may
have done it from below.   But it is possible to do it without removing
the dash.

Find a kid with small hands.  

Stu 

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of CoolVT at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:33 PM
To: Greg.Koss at TRW.COM; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender

Greg,
To get the gauge out of the dash you have to be able to get to the  2
nuts 
holding the gauge in.  Getting to those 2 nuts is no easier than
getting to the 
flare nut.
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

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From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jun 26 13:31:14 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:31:14 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
Message-ID: <001501c8d7c3$339e8340$6501a8c0@your03667082de>

You have to remove either the tach or speedometer to get the oil pressure
gauge out or to remove the plastic line.   Its too tight up there with the
steering column and gauges.


                                Jeff

From Landcmitch at aol.com  Thu Jun 26 14:38:07 2008
From: Landcmitch at aol.com (Landcmitch at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:38:07 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele Tiger
Message-ID: <d5b.25b00de3.3595582f@aol.com>

R & S has a Tiger listed for their August auction in Monterey.
 
    
_http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1965_sunbeam_tiger__coupe/39-1012.html_ 
(http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1965_sunbeam_tiger__coupe/39-1012.html) 
 
Charlie



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
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From larryall at pacbell.net  Thu Jun 26 14:49:28 2008
From: larryall at pacbell.net (Larry Allbritton)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:49:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers]  Oil pressure sender
Message-ID: <130095.20816.qm@web83003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Mark
  How about removing the speedometer?  It is offset from the column so no real interference there.  Plus that opening should give you access to the pressure gauge without being upside down and trying to work around the steering column.
   
  Good luck
   
  Message: 7
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:15:49 EDT
From: CoolVT at aol.com
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Message-ID: <c20.3cdcc652.359528c5 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Has anyone been able to replace the oil pressure sender without
  removing the 
dash?  With the  steering column bracing in the way I  can't get a
 flare 
wrench ( or any wrench) on the securing nut.  Reaching  the gauge
 attaching nuts 
doesn't seem any easier. So, I can't pull the pressure  gauge out.   I 
considered removing either the speedometer or tach.  hoping that I
 might be able to 
reach things from the front of the dash, but that  route doesn't seem
 very 
promising either.  Help!!!!!
Mark

From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Thu Jun 26 16:39:25 2008
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:39:25 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
Message-ID: <c93.2c1c03ea.3595749d@aol.com>

If you are still running the original black plastic tube, don't
even think about reusing it.  Buy a new braided stainless line
from SS or CAT.
 
Dave
 
 
In a message dated 6/26/2008 3:50:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
larryall at pacbell.net writes:

Mark
How about removing the speedometer?  It is offset  from the column so no real 
interference there.  Plus that opening should  give you access to the 
pressure gauge without being upside down and trying to  work around the steering 
column.

Good  luck

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:15:49  EDT
From: CoolVT at aol.com
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
To:  tigers at autox.team.net
Message-ID:  <c20.3cdcc652.359528c5 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="us-ascii"

Has anyone been able to replace the oil pressure  sender without
removing the 
dash?  With the  steering  column bracing in the way I  can't get a
flare 
wrench ( or any  wrench) on the securing nut.  Reaching  the gauge
attaching nuts  
doesn't seem any easier. So, I can't pull the pressure  gauge  out.   I 
considered removing either the speedometer or  tach.  hoping that I
might be able to 
reach things from the front  of the dash, but that  route doesn't seem
very 
promising  either.   Help!!!!!
Mark
You are subscribed as  djoh797014 at aol.com

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

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From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Thu Jun 26 18:12:43 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:12:43 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele Tiger
In-Reply-To: <d5b.25b00de3.3595582f@aol.com>
References: <d5b.25b00de3.3595582f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4864307B.605@SoCal.rr.com>

Charlie,

Thanks for the link.  Russo and Steele (Rustle and Steal?) have nice 
auctions of fine cars.  As does Christie's, at the Monterey Auctions.  
They do not talk like "Tobacco Auctioneers", but speak normal, refined 
English. Aug. 15, 16 Downtown Marriott, Monterey.

http://www.russoandsteele.com/monterey_schedule.html

and the SCCA  Laguna Seca (Monterey):

The 35th Rolex Monterey Races (near Salinas), at the same weekend (Aug. 
15-17), are great to watch.  The parking lot is almost as good as the 
the race:

http://www.laguna-seca.com/

Just the coast drive down (or up) there is just breathtaking scenery, as 
is the lawn show with the feature Marque of the Year.
Look at the Laguna-Seca pics and directions.

http://www.laguna-seca.com/getting_here/

Been there 4 times, and Jay goes every year.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Landcmitch at aol.com wrote:
> R & S has a Tiger listed for their August auction in Monterey.
>  
> (http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1965_sunbeam_tiger__coupe/39-1012.html) 
>  
> Charlie

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Thu Jun 26 18:33:31 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:33:31 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Bulbs
Message-ID: <000501c8d7ed$73733450$66951840@ronpc1>

FYI

This company is listed in the July 2008 Auto Restorer and it looks like a
good source of information and bulbs, halogen and LEDs.

You have to send for a price list, I have not done that so I have no idea on
prices.

http://www.classicandvintagebulbs.com/page2.html

Ron Fraser

From slaughy at rogers.com  Thu Jun 26 18:39:15 2008
From: slaughy at rogers.com (Shaun Laughy)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:39:15 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Timing Cover
Message-ID: <000001c8d7ee$3a0ba890$6501a8c0@main>

Hi, folks,
 
I'm not sure yet if I will have to do it, but I have received
conflicting advice about whether or not the oil pan has to be removed in
order to take the timing cover off my 289.  Could anyone who is familiar
with this please let me know?
 
Thanks,
Shaun

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Jun 26 18:43:00 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:43:00 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
Message-ID: <cf4.304a8f2e.35959194@aol.com>

Has anyone used copper for gas lines?  Any problem in doing  so?  It seems 
pretty well protected the length of the car.
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From srekate at pacifier.com  Thu Jun 26 19:04:52 2008
From: srekate at pacifier.com (Scott Rekate)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:04:52 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Oil pressure sender
Message-ID: <A7A2B765-1A13-40A5-A06C-617255AEE838@pacifier.com>

In replacing all the firewall grommets I had to pull the steering  
column, speedo cable, and all lines penetrating including the oil  
pressure line which I think you are making reference to. If you don't  
object to removing the drivers seat, odd contortions, inverting your  
body and placing a flashlight in your mouth  , one can find a  
position to view said nut on the oil gauge.  With one small (3")  
crescent wrench and weaving your arm over the steering column and  
through the jungle of wiring (my wiring anyway) you can actually get  
enough purchase on the nut to loosen, then unscrew with fingers.

No one said working on Tigers was easy!

Scott


>>> <CoolVT at aol.com> 6/26/2008 1:15 PM >>>
>>>
Has anyone been able to replace the oil pressure sender without   
removing the
dash?  With the  steering column bracing in the way I  can't get a flare
wrench ( or any wrench) on the securing nut.  Reaching  the gauge  
attaching
nuts
doesn't seem any easier. So, I can't pull the pressure  gauge out.   I
considered removing either the speedometer or tach.  hoping that I  
might be
able to
reach things from the front of the dash, but that  route doesn't seem  
very
promising either.  Help!!!!!
Mark

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Thu Jun 26 19:16:24 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:16:24 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Timing Cover
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d7ee$3a0ba890$6501a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <000001c8d7f3$6c58c1c0$66951840@ronpc1>

Shaun
	There are 4 bolts from the oil pan up into the timing cover and
there maybe RTV sealing it.
You also need to pull the dip stick out.

You probably can get the timing cover off without taking the oil pan off but
you need to be careful not to get gasket material and dirt into the oil pan.

Your choice; gaskets are cheap.

Ron Fraser



-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Shaun Laughy
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 8:39 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Timing Cover


Hi, folks,

I'm not sure yet if I will have to do it, but I have received conflicting
advice about whether or not the oil pan has to be removed in order to take
the timing cover off my 289.  Could anyone who is familiar with this please
let me know?

Thanks,
Shaun
You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com

Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
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From sawhill at att.net  Thu Jun 26 19:58:33 2008
From: sawhill at att.net (Kenda Sawhill)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:58:33 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Hypothetical question???
In-Reply-To: <20080626151154.NDHD3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
References: <20080626144541.XGBT9455.aarpub10.charter.net@QMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<20080626151154.NDHD3194.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <000001c8d7f9$50addfe0$6996480c@HomeOffice>

Just remember to alternate sides so you get an even sunburn. ;)
-Mac-


Once adjusted it works easy every time to the point that a
person can weld a dot or spot weld without a hood by turning their face away
and pressing the button. -- Bill --

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Thu Jun 26 19:59:03 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:59:03 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Bulbs
In-Reply-To: <000501c8d7ed$73733450$66951840@ronpc1>
References: <000501c8d7ed$73733450$66951840@ronpc1>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806261859o106163bv66ef338da48d7779@mail.gmail.com>

I would be careful about switching to LEDE bulbs in the tail/brake lights
for a few reasons. A friend did this on his MKI cortina..

Our lenses have that radial pattern in them thats designed to have a light
fire at the centre of it, the LEDS have a christmas tree layout with bulbs
all round.. so while brighter they dont aim correctly and ultimately look
dimmer (if they stocked 1 big LED that faced out that would be great)

Also the lights are instant which is good.. but dont give that classic look
of fading in and out.. ok.. thats a bit picky and silly.. but combined with
the brightness issue.. i think its worth sticking with stock bulbs.. or
someone make the 1 BIG LED.

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From tsmit at shaw.ca  Thu Jun 26 20:52:20 2008
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:52:20 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Bulbs
In-Reply-To: <d86d088a0806261859o106163bv66ef338da48d7779@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000501c8d7ed$73733450$66951840@ronpc1>
	<d86d088a0806261859o106163bv66ef338da48d7779@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <486455E4.6010409@shaw.ca>

michael king wrote:
> I would be careful about switching to LEDE bulbs in the tail/brake lights
> for a few reasons. A friend did this on his MKI cortina..
>
> Our lenses have that radial pattern in them thats designed to have a light
> fire at the centre of it, the LEDS have a christmas tree layout with bulbs
> all round.. so while brighter they dont aim correctly and ultimately look
> dimmer (if they stocked 1 big LED that faced out that would be great)
>
> Also the lights are instant which is good.. but dont give that classic look
> of fading in and out.. ok.. thats a bit picky and silly.. but combined with
> the brightness issue.. i think its worth sticking with stock bulbs.. or
> someone make the 1 BIG LED.
>
>   
I have some LED bulbs that have one central LED and a circle of eight 
smaller ones surrounding it, all of them firing straight out. It works 
OK in the stock taillight housing.

Theo

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Fri Jun 27 00:26:34 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:26:34 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] New display page
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806262326t76b5e610v17fadf4e8ba49bf@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Tiger listers,

i have made a new display page if you are interested,, just click for the
larger version and right click to save.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2517842820054462410EQCeiW

or this might go direct to it:
http://image24.webshots.com/665/8/42/82/2517842820054462410EQCeiW_fs.jpg

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Fri Jun 27 05:49:07 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:49:07 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Had to abort the drive to Big Bear :>(
In-Reply-To: <486455E4.6010409@shaw.ca>
References: <000501c8d7ed$73733450$66951840@ronpc1>
	<d86d088a0806261859o106163bv66ef338da48d7779@mail.gmail.com>
	<486455E4.6010409@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <000001c8d84b$cf528e20$6df7aa60$@rr.com>

Wow,

Two days a 1200 miles.  Wednesday I made it as far as eastern Colorado and
an altitude of ~4000 feet.

Problem one - my carb was jetted too rich for the altitude.  I believe it is
too rich for sea level and this was multiplied at altitude.  All of my spark
plugs were black when I pulled them when I was forced to stop in CO.  This
is an easy fix and I will be working on getting this carb set up properly.

Problem two - a big one.  By 1300 the temp was in the mid 90's.  I started
to experience bad stumbling at speed due to fuel starvation.  I replaced the
fuel pump and blew out the fuel lines and this did not fix the problem.  I
figured out that the fuel was getting so hot in the line that it was
vaporizing and cause large pockets of gas vapor in the lines which the carb
did not like.  I spent five hours driving back yesterday continuing to
experiencing this vaporization fuel starvation problem (it was up to 98 on
I70).  It stopped once the temps cooled down. So I need to look at
completely modifying the fuel delivery system.  I will be moving the pump
into the spare tire well, install larger lines and have a fuel return system
that will help keep the fuel cooler.  I also think that the line should be
run up behind the engine to the carb and not along the side and in front
which exposes that length of line to high engine compartment temps.

Any thought on this, I know that many of you have experience with this
issue.

Will try again to make TU next year.  I hope it will be closer than 1500
miles too.

Duke

From Carmods at aol.com  Fri Jun 27 07:27:01 2008
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:27:01 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
Message-ID: <bd3.25ae2856.359644a5@aol.com>

_CoolVT at aol.com_ (mailto:CoolVT at aol.com)  writes:

Has  anyone used copper for gas lines? 
There is no problem with copper fuel lines.
 
John Logan

 



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
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From mark.rense at ge.com  Fri Jun 27 12:23:37 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:23:37 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] How Far Can A Restoration Go?
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04E3DAD5@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

While perusing the Russo and Steele auction site, I read the description
of this Cobra. This car has a colorful racing resume, but was basically
destroyed in an accident with only a few bits recovered. In 1985 the
owner then took the CSX3012 MSO to Autocraft (not Shelby, not AC), who
basically build him a new car around the recovered bits. The "new" car
then went on to win numerous vintage races, shows and awards from the
SAAC community, certainly with Shelby's blessing.

Very interesting. By our standards, this car should be considered a
fake, and whoever buys this car is really getting a Cobra version of an
Alger. Following this logic, I could basically drop a V-8 into an
Alpine, rivet in a Tiger VIN plate, have it titled and call it..well...a
Tiger. But we all know that is not Kosher in our little community.

We have had many discussions about restoration "authenticity" on this
board. Since they are treating this car as real, what does that imply?
Certainly, one could make a strong case that this Cobra is a fraud, just
a very expensive kit car, so why hasn't anyone? My take on it is that
it's all a matter of money. This Cobra is unique, one of only a few
big-block S/C cars with a racing pedigree, so regardless of the content,
the concept of the car and its history is retained, and therefore the
value. I'm sure this car will go for Big Bucks at the auction, primarily
because the Cobra community has accepted it as a real Cobra.

Is this right? If our Tiger's values suddenly climb up into more lofty
territory, will an Alpine-bodied Tiger suddenly become legitimate?

This should be an interesting discussion....

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1966_shelby_cobra_427_csx301
2__roadster/39-1018.html

Bugz

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Fri Jun 27 12:47:18 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:47:18 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] How Far Can A Restoration Go?
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F0EA@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

As I understand it, in Britain you can restore a car and retain its
official title and license plate history (along with associated
emissions and safety equipment requirements), on a points basis. What
that requires is that you keep a sufficient number of parts from the
original vehicle through the restoration. You can do a chassis swap to a
purpose-built replacement chassis and body shell, if you keep the
original driveline and other running gear and suspension stuff. On the
other hand, if you keep the original chassis then you can do engine
updates and it is also still considered a vintage vehicle.

So in some ways, the history of this Cobra may be legitimate in that
sense. The chassis and body of the car were replaced not with another
Cobra's, but with a purpose built replacement that did not previously
have any other legal title. This is different from the typical Alger
restoration, which involves stripping an Alpine of its original VIN.
This is illegal and it is unlikely to ever cause the current conversions
to be regarded as "true" Tigers. In the best case, someone will start
creating Tiger replicas; if an Alger was found that had all its Tiger
bits from one (documentable) donor Tiger, then you could transfer all
those parts to the new chassis along with the VIN plate, and that would
at least remove the Alger stigma from that car - it might still have to
be registered using a VIN that noted the chassis manufacturer though.

On the other hand, this Cobra is like the story of the antique
horse-drawn carriage where through several generations of use and
ownership, every single component wore out and was replaced as it
failed, and over time there was not a single original part left on the
thing... But it was still an "antique".

I'm guessing that while the "salvaged" and "various" parts were sold to
the guy who did the restoration along with the MSO documents, not many
of those parts actually are currently on the car. It might be like that
Bugatti that was wrecked at some point and then somehow the wreckage got
divided, and two groups individually used those parts to create two new
cars, each of which claims to be the genuine original article.

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)
Sent: June 27, 2008 12:24 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] How Far Can A Restoration Go?
<snip>
Is this right? If our Tiger's values suddenly climb up into more lofty
territory, will an Alpine-bodied Tiger suddenly become legitimate?

This should be an interesting discussion....

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1966_shelby_cobra_427_csx301
2__roadster/39-1018.html

Bugz
You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Jun 27 12:58:38 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:58:38 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] destroyed Cobra
Message-ID: <d28.2d17fe21.3596925e@aol.com>

"but was basically destroyed in an accident with only a few  bits recovered."
 
To me it would be how much and what parts of the  original car remained.  
Let's face it there are very few wrecks where only  a few bits are recovered.  
Destroy the motor and transmission, smash the  hood, trunk lid, both doors and 
all 4 fenders, both bumpers and the  grill on a Tiger and according to what 
I've heard the car could be rebuilt  with Alpine parts and still be a Tiger.
M





**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From tiger at missiongranite.com  Fri Jun 27 13:15:16 2008
From: tiger at missiongranite.com (Alan Zeni)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:15:16 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Fw:  How Far Can A Restoration Go?
Message-ID: <001801c8d88a$21c7fc60$43f9d648@mgserver>

I had a friend who lost is cobra in a fire.  Should'a seen the pile of
aluminum on the garage floor.  Anyhow, Insurance paid the claim and he sold
the frame with the original serial number to someone.  He told me that if
you had an original frame, it was still considered an original cobra.  Go
figger.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)" <mark.rense at ge.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:23 AM
Subject: [Tigers] How Far Can A Restoration Go?


> While perusing the Russo and Steele auction site, I read the description
> of this Cobra. This car has a colorful racing resume, but was basically
> destroyed in an accident with only a few bits recovered. In 1985 the
> owner then took the CSX3012 MSO to Autocraft (not Shelby, not AC), who
> basically build him a new car around the recovered bits. The "new" car
> then went on to win numerous vintage races, shows and awards from the
> SAAC community, certainly with Shelby's blessing.
>
> Very interesting. By our standards, this car should be considered a
> fake, and whoever buys this car is really getting a Cobra version of an
> Alger. Following this logic, I could basically drop a V-8 into an
> Alpine, rivet in a Tiger VIN plate, have it titled and call it..well...a
> Tiger. But we all know that is not Kosher in our little community.
>
> We have had many discussions about restoration "authenticity" on this
> board. Since they are treating this car as real, what does that imply?
> Certainly, one could make a strong case that this Cobra is a fraud, just
> a very expensive kit car, so why hasn't anyone? My take on it is that
> it's all a matter of money. This Cobra is unique, one of only a few
> big-block S/C cars with a racing pedigree, so regardless of the content,
> the concept of the car and its history is retained, and therefore the
> value. I'm sure this car will go for Big Bucks at the auction, primarily
> because the Cobra community has accepted it as a real Cobra.
>
> Is this right? If our Tiger's values suddenly climb up into more lofty
> territory, will an Alpine-bodied Tiger suddenly become legitimate?
>
> This should be an interesting discussion....
>
> http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1966_shelby_cobra_427_csx301
> 2__roadster/39-1018.html
>
> Bugz
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as tiger at missiongranite.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Jun 27 13:22:39 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:22:39 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Had to abort the drive to Big Bear :>(
In-Reply-To: <000301c8d85b$401683a0$c0438ae0$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8d88b$2b6767f0$8e951840@ronpc1>

Duke
	It is normal for the carb to percolate; I'm not sure about the
filter, mine is a steel canister at the engine.   If you have one of those
clear fuel filters with the replaceable elements; get rid of it.  A friend
of mine had one of those burst on his 68 Mustang; fortunately the engine was
cold.  Apparently the clear section does not heat cycle well over time.   I
have one on my Tiger but it is before the fuel pump and is not subjected to
high heat.  I also had that filter clog up with paint flakes at the inlet,
the flakes never got to the white filter section so I did not see the
problem until I took everything apart.

	I would also make sure that there is not a vacuum forming in the
fuel tanks; this is a vented system and the pump will not work against a
vacuum.   There is a vent hole at the bottom of the fuel cap; you must be
able to suck air through it or a vacuum will form.

	As with any problem; never assume anything until you have checked it
out thoroughly.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: Duke Samouce [mailto:wsamouce at kc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:40 AM
To: rfraser at bluefrog.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Had to abort the drive to Big Bear :>(


Thanks all for the multiple return comments to me personally.  Some great
information!

There has been some questions asked and here is some more info.

Coolant temps - I have my radiator recored recently and have done most of
the proven modifications to the cooling system.  My coolant temps did not
get above 185 at any time during the trip.  I am very happy with the engine
cooling.

Fuel peculation/vapor lock...etc.  I am sure that the fuel is vaporizing in
the line because when I was having these problems I opened the hood and
looked at the clear fuel filter in the engine compartment.  I could see lots
of vapors being forced into the filter from the fuel pump side.  I have
noticed this happening here in Kansas when the car sits after it is fully up
to temp and high ambient temps. Its is like an old coffee pot with the clear
top, it peculates like that.  When the car would flat out stall at very slow
speeds, I would check the filter and it would be completely empty.  This is
after replacing the fuel pump.  The pump I installed is a 30 gph 4-6 psi
pump.  There was not any restriction in the old fuel pump filter and I have
never seen any contaminants enter the filter in the engine compartment.

Thanks again for the comments and encouragement guys!  It helps take the
sting out a bit.

Duke

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun 27 13:48:10 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:48:10 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Fw:  How Far Can A Restoration Go?
In-Reply-To: <001801c8d88a$21c7fc60$43f9d648@mgserver>
References: <001801c8d88a$21c7fc60$43f9d648@mgserver>
Message-ID: <486543FA.1090407@SoCal.rr.com>

Alan,

As I dimly recall, the S/N was riveted to the chassis of the Cobra in 
the earlier years, and it can be rebuilt and licensed here in 
California.  A really tough State (remember "Gone in 60 Seconds). That 
was all that was required for a T-Bone, or "A" Ford. And the same for my 
"RED TOI", which only had the donor VW platform that had the S/N stamped 
on the tunnel.

See Page 5, (with sound on):

http://www.tigersunited.com/articles/sl-mc/SteveLaifman.asp

Some cop stopped my son, Jay, (current owner), and required a vehicle 
inspection as the S/N was not "visible" through the windshield.  The 
chassis was older than the "window visible tag", so the CHP approved it.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Alan Zeni wrote:
> I had a friend who lost is cobra in a fire.  Should'a seen the pile of
> aluminum on the garage floor.  Anyhow, Insurance paid the claim and he sold
> the frame with the original serial number to someone.  He told me that if
> you had an original frame, it was still considered an original cobra.  Go
> figger.

From rfraser at bluefrog.com  Fri Jun 27 13:48:05 2008
From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:48:05 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] How Far Can A Restoration Go?
In-Reply-To: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04E3DAD5@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <000001c8d88e$b8f3cc00$8e951840@ronpc1>

Bugz
	This Cobra is well documented in the Shelby American Registry.  SAAC
has been on the forefront of defining Air Cars and Fakes for decades and
they seem to know the paper trail for the real Cobra CSX3012.

The Registry also lists 3 other 3012 Cobras that are Air Cars and have
hopefully been dealt with and new VIN numbers assigned by now.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 2:24 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] How Far Can A Restoration Go?


While perusing the Russo and Steele auction site, I read the description of
this Cobra. This car has a colorful racing resume, but was basically
destroyed in an accident with only a few bits recovered. In 1985 the owner
then took the CSX3012 MSO to Autocraft (not Shelby, not AC), who basically
build him a new car around the recovered bits. The "new" car then went on to
win numerous vintage races, shows and awards from the SAAC community,
certainly with Shelby's blessing.

Very interesting. By our standards, this car should be considered a fake,
and whoever buys this car is really getting a Cobra version of an Alger.
Following this logic, I could basically drop a V-8 into an Alpine, rivet in
a Tiger VIN plate, have it titled and call it..well...a Tiger. But we all
know that is not Kosher in our little community.

We have had many discussions about restoration "authenticity" on this board.
Since they are treating this car as real, what does that imply? Certainly,
one could make a strong case that this Cobra is a fraud, just a very
expensive kit car, so why hasn't anyone? My take on it is that it's all a
matter of money. This Cobra is unique, one of only a few big-block S/C cars
with a racing pedigree, so regardless of the content, the concept of the car
and its history is retained, and therefore the value. I'm sure this car will
go for Big Bucks at the auction, primarily because the Cobra community has
accepted it as a real Cobra.

Is this right? If our Tiger's values suddenly climb up into more lofty
territory, will an Alpine-bodied Tiger suddenly become legitimate?

This should be an interesting discussion....

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1966_shelby_cobra_427_csx301
2__roadster/39-1018.html

Bugz
You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com

Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
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11:20 AM

From AAAGLASSS at aol.com  Fri Jun 27 14:14:59 2008
From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:14:59 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] TR-6 Needs restoring
Message-ID: <c97.294f047d.3596a443@aol.com>

_http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160255182689&ss
PageName=ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123_ 
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160255182689&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123) 



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Jun 27 14:51:41 2008
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:51:41 EDT
Subject: [Tigers] TR-6 Needs restoring
Message-ID: <ce6.2c7d2ec0.3596acdd@aol.com>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160255182689&ss



Being sold by a non profit.  Probably one of those deals where  the donator 
took a $5,000 tax write off for the donation.  
M



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

From banana111 at msn.com  Fri Jun 27 14:55:10 2008
From: banana111 at msn.com (Brent Edinger)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:55:10 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Copper fuel line
Message-ID: <BLU114-DAV854553E4959B54E1BB9AFF7A20@phx.gbl>

>Has  anyone used copper for gas lines?
>There is no problem with copper fuel lines.

>John Logan



The problem with copper is it slowly work hardens from vibration and
eventually
will crack at the engine connection. I used steel brake line inside an
insulation sleeve
to help shield it from heat.

             Brent   B9471023

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Jun 27 16:23:11 2008
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:23:11 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Copper fuel line
In-Reply-To: <BLU114-DAV854553E4959B54E1BB9AFF7A20@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU114-DAV854553E4959B54E1BB9AFF7A20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4865684F.4020406@SoCal.rr.com>

Brent,

While copper can be work hardened, steel is even more easily work 
hardened.  Then the material at the bend location is sufficiently 
hardened, it will break.

Best solution is to keep all lines supported, and free from bending.  
The tank-line-body-fuel pump run should be supported by rigid clamps to 
the chassis.  The fuel pump to engine line should be a flexible s.s. hose.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

> The problem with copper is it slowly work hardens from vibration and
> eventually
> will crack at the engine connection. I used steel brake line inside an
> insulation sleeve
> to help shield it from heat.
>
>              Brent   B9471023

From todbrown at roadrunner.com  Fri Jun 27 20:40:01 2008
From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:40:01 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] How Far Can a Restoration Go?
Message-ID: <4865A481.7090603@roadrunner.com>

A few years ago, I decided that the small cabin I own down by the lake 
needed to be replaced.  Unfortunately, the cabin is what is called, 
around here, "a non-conforming structure" in that it is located too 
close to the water (i.e. < 100 ft), having been built long before there 
were any restrictions on such structures.  The regulations said that I 
could repair it without any problem, but I could not replace the whole 
thing without a variance from the Planning Board.  I inquired about what 
it meant to repair it and was told that if I took down more than half of 
the building, I was replacing it, not repairing it, so I pondered that 
for a bit and then went to the Planning Board to get their permission to 
replace it all at once.  My argument to them was that I could "repair" 
half of it one summer and the other half the next summer or, with their 
permission, do it all at once.  Realizing the impeccable logic of my 
argument, they allowed me to replace it.  My cabin, a MkII, has had many 
improvements but does retain a few original parts, but I would never try 
to pass it off as an original.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From todbrown at roadrunner.com  Fri Jun 27 20:45:25 2008
From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:45:25 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger
Message-ID: <4865A5C5.2000305@roadrunner.com>

In reading the description of the Russo & Steele Tiger being advertised 
for their auction, I noticed that it was
listed as having a Galaxie rear end.  Is that for real, or are they just 
uninformed?  And is that really a 289?

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From chris at cthompson.net  Fri Jun 27 21:11:53 2008
From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:11:53 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] How Far Can a Restoration Go?
In-Reply-To: <4865A481.7090603@roadrunner.com>
References: <4865A481.7090603@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <4865ABF9.2070306@cthompson.net>

My favorite possession is my great grandfather's ax.  We've replaced the 
head and handle many times over the generations to keep it like new and 
just like when he had it.

I'm at VIR right now with my 1969 Lotus 51c Formula Ford.  More than 
likely, it has nothing on it from 1969.  When the tube frame rots out 
(Chapman saved weight by running both oil and coolant through the frame 
rails), you can get a new frame by sending it to someone who builds a 
new one and then destroys the old.  He stamps the old frame number on 
the new one, and you're good to go.  The car is registered on the Lotus 
Formula Ford Registry and is more than welcome at every vintage racing 
event.  Perfectly accepted in this world, as keeping the few cars alive 
in any fashion is more important than anything.

We've had this discussion many times in the past.  My Jaguar E-type has 
a brand-spanking new VIN plate mounted on it, and the original is in my 
safe deposit box.  Perfectly legit in that world, as pretty is more 
important than anything. But that car has almost everything from 1962 
excepting the VIN plate.

Every marque has it's own concerns.  Obviously, our biggest concern is 
Algers, but I don't think we should apply our standards onto other marques.

Chris
B382000331

Tod Brown wrote:
> A few years ago, I decided that the small cabin I own down by the lake 
> needed to be replaced.  Unfortunately, the cabin is what is called, 
> around here, "a non-conforming structure" in that it is located too 
> close to the water (i.e. < 100 ft), having been built long before there 
> were any restrictions on such structures.  The regulations said that I 
> could repair it without any problem, but I could not replace the whole 
> thing without a variance from the Planning Board.  I inquired about what 
> it meant to repair it and was told that if I took down more than half of 
> the building, I was replacing it, not repairing it, so I pondered that 
> for a bit and then went to the Planning Board to get their permission to 
> replace it all at once.  My argument to them was that I could "repair" 
> half of it one summer and the other half the next summer or, with their 
> permission, do it all at once.  Realizing the impeccable logic of my 
> argument, they allowed me to replace it.  My cabin, a MkII, has had many 
> improvements but does retain a few original parts, but I would never try 
> to pass it off as an original.

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 27 21:51:05 2008
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:51:05 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Parts is Parts
Message-ID: <001501c8d8d2$31b052b0$6501a8c0@your03667082de>

>From the Russo Steele web site:

"Following this incident, the car was dismantled with Oseid retaining the
salvageable parts and most importantly the ownership MSO document he obtained
from Peckman.

In 1985 George Stauffer purchased the MSO and various parts to 3012, and had
Brain Angliss of AutoKraft in England rebuild the car utilizing a new chassis
and aluminum bodywork."


It appears that the most important part of the car is the "MSO document"  I'm
not familiar with a "MSO" document.  Is that the title to the car?   The web
site doesn't mention what parts were saved and reused.  Lets see, 1985 chassis
and bodywork, what could they have used from the original, maybe door hinges?
This car doesn't seem to be any different than any other Cobra replica to my
way of thinking .If I had the money and wanted a genuine Shelby Cobra from the
1960's, I would take a pass on this one.  I'm sure it will attract serious
Cobra money because of the history and the "MSO" document.





                                                                             
                     Jeff

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Fri Jun 27 23:00:16 2008
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:00:16 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Parts is Parts
In-Reply-To: <001501c8d8d2$31b052b0$6501a8c0@your03667082de>
References: <001501c8d8d2$31b052b0$6501a8c0@your03667082de>
Message-ID: <9405DE9CE30849C385C0787429C3FBD4@DellD4700>

The MSO is the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin. The MSO acts like the
original title to the car and is used with a bill of sale to register and
license the car for the first retail buyer. Since race cars aren't usually
licensed or registered, the MSO and a series of bills of sale from owner to
owner should stay with the car as proof of current ownership. Still having
the MSO is further documentation that the car was never registered for
street use.

A. C. Tynes
New Orleans 

> -----Original Message-----
> It appears that the most important part of the car is the "MSO document" >
> I'm
> not familiar with a "MSO" document.  Is that the title to the car?
>
>Jeff

From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net  Sat Jun 28 00:21:09 2008
From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:21:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger
References: <4865A5C5.2000305@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <003201c8d8e7$281726b0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Tod,

I noticed the same thing.

In reading the write-up I got the impression that someone ripped off a 
section of a book that covered the beginnings of the Tiger. Does anyone 
recognize or recall the source?

We all know that production Tigers came with the Salisbury equivalent of a 
Dana 44 and some race Tigers (3?) were equipped with a Dana 23 built by 
Doanne Spencer which was homologated and listed as  an LAT option.

George Boskoff recalls that when he built the prototype the rear end was 
supplied by Ian Garrad. Before the car was shipped to England for its 
showing to Lord Rootes, Ian had Doanne install what Doanne recalled to be a 
Dana 23. (I wish I'd  have checked the prototype to see if a 23 is still 
underneath it.) Regardless, George remembered that the rear end Rootes 
provided was "too big" and "huge". Perhaps this was a Galaxy rear end?

One other thought: is a Galaxy rear end a just a standard 9 inch Ford? I 
don't remember.

Buck Trippel


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tod Brown" <todbrown at roadrunner.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger


> In reading the description of the Russo & Steele Tiger being advertised
> for their auction, I noticed that it was
> listed as having a Galaxie rear end.  Is that for real, or are they just
> uninformed?  And is that really a 289?
>
> Tod
> B382002384LRXFE

From srwick at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 28 05:36:08 2008
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:36:08 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger
References: <4865A5C5.2000305@roadrunner.com>
	<003201c8d8e7$281726b0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV5CA800ECBE5492360600FD89D0@phx.gbl>

Yes, it's a standard 9", although I have seen some that looked
like the housing would accept a 9 1/4 3rd member.

Steve
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Buck Trippel<mailto:BuckTrippel at Verizon.net>
  To: Tod Brown<mailto:todbrown at roadrunner.com> ;
tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger


  One other thought: is a Galaxy rear end a just a standard 9 inch Ford? I
  don't remember.

  Buck Trippel

From JParent4 at tampabay.rr.com  Sat Jun 28 05:55:04 2008
From: JParent4 at tampabay.rr.com (Jim Parent)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:55:04 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-DAV5CA800ECBE5492360600FD89D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000001c8d915$ce0a20d0$c300a8c0@T60>

A lot of info (YMMV) on 9" rear ends can be found here: 

http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm

-----
Yes, it's a standard 9", although I have seen some that looked
like the housing would accept a 9 1/4 3rd member.

----- 

  One other thought: is a Galaxy rear end a just a standard 9 inch Ford? I
  don't remember.

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Sat Jun 28 08:41:33 2008
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:41:33 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] SUUNNNDAY!! British Car Day In Brookline
Message-ID: <000501c8d92d$1013fc00$6601a8c0@Brennan>

Just a reminder for you guys.  British Car Day at the Larz Anderson Auto
Museum in Brookline is tomorrow.  All owners of British cars, club
members or not, are welcome. The weather forecast seems to be getting a
little better each time I hear it, though some showers are still
possible.  We spent good money on our tops, so what the heck, right?

 

Officially it starts at 10:00 but the field is usually well populated by
then, so coming earlier wouldn't be a bad idea.  

 

Hope to see you there!

 

Stu Brennan

TE/AE Regional rep

From wsamouce at kc.rr.com  Sat Jun 28 11:04:31 2008
From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:04:31 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Did a base line dyno on the Tiger today.
In-Reply-To: <000001c8d915$ce0a20d0$c300a8c0@T60>
References: <BAY101-DAV5CA800ECBE5492360600FD89D0@phx.gbl>
	<000001c8d915$ce0a20d0$c300a8c0@T60>
Message-ID: <000001c8d941$0a4254c0$1ec6fe40$@rr.com>

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8473

Please take a look and let me know what you think.  Not too bad for a 260
running real fat.  Fat enough to cause lots of problems at altitude which,
as you know, happened trying to get to Big Bear this week.

Duke

From macdonald49 at shaw.ca  Sat Jun 28 16:50:41 2008
From: macdonald49 at shaw.ca (Peter MacDonald)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:50:41 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Brian Anglis & Autokraft
Message-ID: <A848359D-2004-43C4-AACF-0158FAF4B058@shaw.ca>

In 1988 we had a tour of the remnants of the Brooklands race track  
and clubhouse as well as the old BAC hangers located in the infield.  
My brother-in-law did his apprenticeship there so knew his way  
around. Autokraft was located there and it is just down the road a  
bit from Thames Ditton, home of AC Cars. They had all the original  
frame jigs, wooden body bucks for shaping the aluminum panels, and a  
paint shop. At the time, they were painting the "new" ME3000's for  
AC. They were also making Ferrari Daytona coupes into roadsters 
(amongst other marques) and I believe they also still own the "GT 40"  
trademark, as they were building the Mk V's (and the AC MkIV's).

Basically, you could probably send them the VIN tag and get a new  
Cobra back. The Shelby guys have had many interesting cases where the  
frame and body have been separated after a wreck and two new cars  
appear, each with the same serial no. Keeps the lawyers in gas money,  
I'm sure.

Peter

From tsmit at shaw.ca  Sat Jun 28 19:19:10 2008
From: tsmit at shaw.ca (THEO SMIT)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:19:10 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger
In-Reply-To: <003201c8d8e7$281726b0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <4865A5C5.2000305@roadrunner.com>
	<003201c8d8e7$281726b0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <d0fdcec33451d.48668eae@shaw.ca>

Buck,
It's from Wikipedia. They could have at least left an attribution to their
source.

Theo
... hope you guys are having fun at TU. I arrived in Taipei about 2 hours
ago... That's a LONG flight.



----- Original Message -----
From: Buck Trippel <BuckTrippel at Verizon.net>
<snip>
> In reading the write-up I got the impression that someone ripped
> off a
> section of a book that covered the beginnings of the Tiger. Does
> anyone
> recognize or recall the source?
> <snip>
> Buck Trippel
>
> 

From sganz at pacbell.net  Sat Jun 28 22:09:11 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger United Autocross
Message-ID: <216061.72167.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just posted a video which should be active sometime this evening. It is a short video of Jere Teppen's and Driving his tiger on the autocross. I mounted a camera on his cowl (sorry for the crooked angle). It has him driving a couple of runs through the cones. I have some of his wife driving the car too (But I can't remember her name now...) and I'll post those after I get a chance. 
Nice crowd of people at the event, and some people that traveled really far with the cars to show up for the event.
Here is the link, hopefully it will be active soon.
http://www.motorator.com/videos/216
P.S. Jere - Thanks for the ride and thanks for letting me stick a camera on the car!

From wseay at embarqmail.com  Sun Jun 29 08:00:03 2008
From: wseay at embarqmail.com (Will Seay)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:00:03 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger
References: <4865A5C5.2000305@roadrunner.com>
Message-ID: <1BD3DC0E9DE547C5BB638C2DB5B3E8F2@xpseay>

Graham Rood in his "The Works Tigers" says that Shelby's George Boskoff 
initially used a Galaxie rear end for the Shelby prototype.  According to 
Rood, the Galaxie rear-end ratio was too low and "Doane Spencer replaced the 
Galaxie unit by a Studebaker Champion part..."

Will - B382001570

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tod Brown" <todbrown at roadrunner.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Russo & Steele Tiger


In reading the description of the Russo & Steele Tiger being advertised
for their auction, I noticed that it was
listed as having a Galaxie rear end.  Is that for real, or are they just
uninformed?  And is that really a 289?

Tod
B382002384LRXFE 

From srwick at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 29 21:29:20 2008
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:29:20 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Rear Axle removal.
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV11FE1AF522AEE868D3F6D1D89F0@phx.gbl>

I bit the bullet and started taking apart my rear axle. I got the first hub
off real easy, because the key was worn and the hub was loose. The axle keyway
is a little oversized now so I'm thinking of having a new key made that is a
little bigger on one half, to fit tight again. Any way, the axle is not
budging and I've worked on some rear ends that have a C-clip on the inner end
to keep it in place. I know the book doesn't say there's one there, but I just
want to verify before I really start hitting the slide hammer. I'm also going
to the machine shop tomorrow to have a plate made to duplicate the function of
the special tool. I modified one of my slide hammer attachments but it doesn't
fit as well as it should. Any advice is appreciated.

Steve

From sganz at pacbell.net  Sun Jun 29 22:03:09 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:03:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger United Autocross
Message-ID: <668407.88991.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The link is good now. A glitch in the system ;-)
Sandy


----- Original
Message ----
From: Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:09:11 PM
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger United
Autocross

Just posted a video which should be active sometime this evening.
It is a short video of Jere Teppen's and Driving his tiger on the autocross. I
mounted a camera on his cowl (sorry for the crooked angle). It has him driving
a couple of runs through the cones. I have some of his wife driving the car
too (But I can't remember her name now...) and I'll post those after I get a
chance. 
Nice crowd of people at the event, and some people that traveled
really far with the cars to show up for the event.
Here is the link, hopefully
it will be active soon.
http://www.motorator.com/videos/216
P.S. Jere - Thanks
for the ride and thanks for letting me stick a camera on the car!
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net
Tigers at autox.team.net
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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Sun Jun 29 23:21:50 2008
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:21:50 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Rear Axle removal.
References: <BAY101-DAV11FE1AF522AEE868D3F6D1D89F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <007701c8da71$33703390$0202a8c0@student2>

Steve,
 I "slide hammered" the daylights out of my hubs to no avail. By the way, 
the axles have to be "worked" out of the rear end too. The bearing that the 
axle is attached to is a press fit - both to the axle AND the housing they 
fit into.  Given my case I recommend making sure you get the axle/bearing 
out first (hub attached). Here is why. If you get the hub off what will you 
pull on to get the axle/bearing out?

 Here is what I had to do to get my hubs off (and there was no rust involved 
either).  With the axle/bearing removed and the hub attached I bolted it on 
a spare steel wheel.  I then suspended the wheel between two strong 
sawhorses.  I backed the nut off until it was even with the end of the axle. 
I placed a 3/4" steel plate over the nut to lessen the damage. I applied 
penetrating oil and heat. Then I took a 10 pound sledge hammer and swung it 
as HARD as I could with full force overhead blows. It took about ten of 
these blows before the hub FINALLY came loose.

 There are others that will tell you different ways to get the hub off. I 
don't mean to contest their experience. I can only tell you none of them 
worked for me. All the best, I hope it goes better for you than me.  By the 
way, what are you doing. If your changing the rear gears the hub doesn't 
have to come off, but you still need to get the axle/bearing out of the 
housing. And, no there is no C clip.
Tom
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1525 - Release Date: 6/29/2008 3:09
PM

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Sun Jun 29 23:34:04 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 23:34:04 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Rear Axle removal.
References: <BAY101-DAV11FE1AF522AEE868D3F6D1D89F0@phx.gbl>
	<007701c8da71$33703390$0202a8c0@student2>
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157F797E3@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Dan Walters describes how to make a rear hub removal tool on TigersUnited.com
(IIRC). While his design requires the use of a welder to attach a nut to the
center plate, it's strictly speaking not required if all you want to do is to
pull the hubs off, and if you have a drill press you can make the required
parts. I followed the basic design and was able to get the hubs off without
smashing anything with hammers. The taper on the rear axles and hubs is so
shallow that the engaging force between the parts is very high... unless it's
worked its way loose through being driven without the end nuts torqued up, a
standard slide hammer isn't going to cut it.

Theo

From laurin212 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 30 11:48:18 2008
From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:48:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine painting
Message-ID: <336510.68989.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

i found a local shop (olsen engines in nyack, ny) to rebuild my 260 (est at 25-30 hrs labor at $85 plus $1000-1500 in parts) ... but he doesnt paint the engine ... or at most will strip/clean/degrease and rattle can spray it ... what are folks recommendations on painting the block and pan (old ford dark blue from BON), rattle can spray?, professionally applied epoxy? other? baked on finish? i want something durable and that looks good.  going for a full restoration so want to do it right.

thanks
peter


Peter Laurinaitis
peter.laurinaitis.wg02 at wharton.upenn.edu

From laurin212 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 30 11:52:32 2008
From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] engine painting
In-Reply-To: <336510.68989.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <187341.88204.qm@web53604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

oops, one more question, should it be painted while apart, or can great results still be attained after it is fully assembled but masking off the engine?


--- On Mon, 6/30/08, Peter Laurinaitis <laurin212 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Peter Laurinaitis <laurin212 at yahoo.com>

....what are folks recommendations on painting the block and pan...

From tcprager at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 30 11:54:39 2008
From: tcprager at hotmail.com (Thomas Prager)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:54:39 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] engine painting
References: <336510.68989.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY142-DAV104359A124941716DBF55CB9F0@phx.gbl>

try this site..............

http://www.hirschauto.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EEA-SPRAY<http://www.hirschauto
.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EEA-SPRAY>


tom
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Peter Laurinaitis<mailto:laurin212 at yahoo.com>
  To: tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 12:48 PM
  Subject: [Tigers] engine painting


  rattle can spray?, professionally applied epoxy? other? baked on finish? i
want something durable and that looks good.  going for a full restoration so
want to do it right.

  thanks
  peter


  Peter Laurinaitis
  peter.laurinaitis.wg02 at wharton.upenn.edu<mailto:peter.laurinaitis.wg02 at whar
ton.upenn.edu>
  _______________________________________________
  Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>

  You are subscribed as tcprager at hotmail.com<mailto:tcprager at hotmail.com>

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From tcprager at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 30 11:57:31 2008
From: tcprager at hotmail.com (Thomas Prager)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:57:31 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] epoxy engine paint
Message-ID: <BAY142-DAV10EF6518AD5FE200000F1FCB9F0@phx.gbl>

follow this link......

  http://www.hirschauto.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EEA-SPRAY<http://www.hirschau
to.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EEA-SPRAY>

tom

From mark.rense at ge.com  Mon Jun 30 13:07:13 2008
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:07:13 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Hub/Axle Removal Tech Tip
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A04E3E228@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Official sure-fire, guaranteed Tiger rear hub removal tech tip:
1. Jack up rear of car.
2. Remove both rear wheels.
3. Remove brake drums using large hammer.
4. Loosen brake adjusters.
5. Now you can actually remove drums.
6. Remove cotter pin/bent nail/paper clip from hub nut.
7. Loosen hub nut by 2.3245 turns, approximately.
8. Spray penetrant all over hub, threads, nut and associated brake parts
(use butter-flavoured Pam if Krol or Liquid Wrench is not available).
9. Take large sledge and beat end of axle threads unmercifully until a
nice ridge is formed. This will help loosen things up a bit.
10. Replace drums.
11. Bolt wheels back onto car.
12. Lower car off jack.
13. Carefully pull car out of driveway into street (it's best to do this
very late at night).
14. Place car in first gear, rev engine to 3200 RPM, drop clutch.
15. Frantically pump brakes to stop.
16. Back out of neighbor's yard.
17. Re-adjust brakes.
18. Again place car in first gear, rev engine to 3200 RPM, drop clutch
19. Repeat.
20. Repeat.
21. Have wheels fallen off yet?
22. Repeat as necessary.
23. After car has landed on rear bumper, you will know your task has
been completed.
24. Tow car back into garage.
25. Go back into street, pick up stray pieces like wheels, bearings,
back-up lamps, license plates, bumper over-riders, etc.
26. Now follow shop manual to pull out axles.

Note: if this does not work, you will need to add some impact energy to
remove the hubs. Back out the rear wheel lug nuts three turns, then
repeat steps 18 through 26.

Good Luck!

:>))

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Mon Jun 30 16:13:27 2008
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:13:27 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] engine painting
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F0F3@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I've found the rattle can engine paints to be pretty durable. Domestic
engines appear to be painted when they're all together.
If you want your restoration to be accurate you'll need to make sure you
include a couple of poorly sealed valve cover gaskets so the entire
outside of the engine is quickly covered in oil, and then road dirt will
take care of the rest of the authentic finish and patina.

;)

Theo

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Peter Laurinaitis
Sent: June 30, 2008 11:53 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] engine painting

oops, one more question, should it be painted while apart, or can great
results still be attained after it is fully assembled but masking off
the engine?


--- On Mon, 6/30/08, Peter Laurinaitis <laurin212 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Peter Laurinaitis <laurin212 at yahoo.com>

....what are folks recommendations on painting the block and pan...
You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From JParent4 at tampabay.rr.com  Mon Jun 30 17:34:27 2008
From: JParent4 at tampabay.rr.com (Jim Parent)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:34:27 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] Wheels
Message-ID: <001801c8db09$d6d65b20$c300a8c0@T60>

I need to put new wheels on my Tiger (9470139).

 

I am looking for something a little nicer looking than stock.

 

What do you guys recommend?  And where should I go to buy them?

 

--Jim

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Mon Jun 30 17:41:38 2008
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:41:38 +1000
Subject: [Tigers] Wheels
In-Reply-To: <001801c8db09$d6d65b20$c300a8c0@T60>
References: <001801c8db09$d6d65b20$c300a8c0@T60>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0806301641i29816474o65d38e2f63c9c55a@mail.gmail.com>

you need to decide what size you want, 13 14 15? what width? what price?
Tyres for the smaller wheels are harder to get

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Mon Jun 30 18:32:54 2008
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:32:54 -0400
Subject: [Tigers] British Car Day Brookline, MA
Message-ID: <000001c8db12$00c7fda0$6601a8c0@Brennan>

I put a few pictures from this year's British Car Day at:

 

http://www.pbase.com/sb_photos/bcd2008

 

There were two each of Tiger and Alpines.  The dank weather and ominous
forecast probably kept a lot of folks away, but it was clear and sunny
by late morning, and not a drop fell for the event or my trip home.
Still, it was a fun time, lots of interesting cars, etc.  Do try to make
it for next year.

 

Stu Brennan

From sganz at pacbell.net  Mon Jun 30 22:40:12 2008
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Tigers] More Video
Message-ID: <954758.16900.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jere -
The link to your wife's video is -
http://www.motorator.com/videos/225 
(May be a bit of time before it is active)
And the one with you driving is -
http://www.motorator.com/videos/216
I have a ton of pics too, just have not
had a chance to post them up.
Sandy :)