From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri Aug 1 11:49:52 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:49:52 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] 13 inch tires In-Reply-To: <003b01c8f391$f5ad6c50$0302a8c0@student2> References: <000501c8f1c4$d39795b0$7ac6c110$@shaw@shaw.ca> <00ad01c8f383$18bb42d0$17ebf204@bob> <003b01c8f391$f5ad6c50$0302a8c0@student2> Message-ID: <48934CC0.5010301@SoCal.rr.com> Tigers, Why wonder what the effects are of changing transmission, rear end, and tire sizes are, when it is so easy to find out almost everything you wanted to know? The TigersUnited.com website already has the answer from Bob Hokanson (father of Mike). http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/HokansonGearSpeedXL/pt-HokansonGearSpeedXL.asp Download the "Transmission Calculator.xls" Excel spread sheet, and the free Excel Calculator, if you do not have one. Shows data for selectable rear axle ratios, tire diameters, transmission gears, etc, already preset to the most popular ones. You can change nearly all parameters, including tire diameter. In the case of the Sumitomo 215-50-13 discussed, the tire diameter is 21.26 inches (per the Tire Rack site), and results in a 4th (1:1) transmission and a 2.88:1 rear axle (stock) speed on 22 mph/1000 rpm. At 5000 rpm the road speed would be 22x5 = 110 mph. You can get this information for any rpm, rear axle ratio, and transmission gear with this tool. Thank You, Mike!!!! Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Thomas Witt wrote: > I have the Sumitomo 215-50-13" on my Datsun 510. This small height tire > really affected the rear ratio. 1st gear was good to the crosswalk. I was > hitting 3rd gear before I got through the intersection. 60 MPH was 4,000 > RPM. Thankfully the Z rears fit the 510. I went from 3.90 to 3.36 gears. It > made all the difference. > > I'd say to factor everything in before using these tires on a Tiger. Then > again, if you have a close ratio trans and getting off the line is of the > highest order of importance.... . > Tom From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net Fri Aug 1 14:04:01 2008 From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:04:01 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Engine ID References: <644871.3388.qm@web51305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c8f411$be431d70$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> With all the recent talk about SBF engine IDs I noticed one of the list members consulted Bob Mannel's book on Small Block Ford Engines, which I want to comment on. It's the best book I've run across about our SBF engines. I've relied on my copy for years.Besides the basic engines, it also covers engine mounted accessories from fans to oil pans. It starts with the 221 and finishes with the 1969 model year. Unfortunately the book was costly - I think I paid around $60 dollars for it. I noticed it's on sale now on his web site for $35 plus $5 shipping. I wish this deal had been around when I bought my copy. http://www.fordsmallblock.com/ Buck Trippel From rfraser at bluefrog.com Fri Aug 1 15:27:47 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 17:27:47 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engine ID In-Reply-To: <001401c8f411$be431d70$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <000001c8f41d$732f0770$8ab01840@ronpc1> Buck I second that and I think it is worth every penny I paid. This book is about 1 1/2" thick and it is jam packed with pictures that cover all aspects of the engine. There is more information in this book then you can possibly digest. It is the best reference book I have about SBF engines. I Emailed Bob Mannel a few times to see if he might have run across any records for the 260 and 289's that were sent to Rootes, the 510 engine code on the 260 engine tag or any information at all; he did not have any information related to the Tiger engines. I wish Bob had a 3rd volume of similar content that covered bell housings, clutch, pressure plates and transmission for SBF. Don't hold your breath about that, he exhausted himself for 17 years researching the engine book. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Buck Trippel Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 4:04 PM To: Tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Engine ID With all the recent talk about SBF engine IDs I noticed one of the list members consulted Bob Mannel's book on Small Block Ford Engines, which I want to comment on. It's the best book I've run across about our SBF engines. I've relied on my copy for years.Besides the basic engines, it also covers engine mounted accessories from fans to oil pans. It starts with the 221 and finishes with the 1969 model year. Unfortunately the book was costly - I think I paid around $60 dollars for it. I noticed it's on sale now on his web site for $35 plus $5 shipping. I wish this deal had been around when I bought my copy. http://www.fordsmallblock.com/ Buck Trippel You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM From tiger-65 at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 1 17:41:21 2008 From: tiger-65 at sbcglobal.net (Greg) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 16:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Red Tiger Advertising Banner Message-ID: <504705.14812.qm@web83803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello everyone, I just received one of these Tiger Advertising Banners made by someone in Canada who knows what he's doing. The actual product looks better than his eBay fotos. It's a good size too. Here's the eBay link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140253256844&rd=1 Item no: 140253256844 He also is selling an Alpine Ad Banner too: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140253254705 Item no: 140253254705 I'm not in business with him, I'm just a happy customer. So check it out if you like. Cheerio, Greg. From michael.s.king at gmail.com Fri Aug 1 22:09:44 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:09:44 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Thanks- dan walters info Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for some contact info for dan, i should be able to reach him when he returns from holidays. -- Regards Michael King From rootes1 at earthlink.net Sat Aug 2 16:35:03 2008 From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 15:35:03 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] PAPER PUSSY Message-ID: http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/pistonheads/lloyds-of-london.htm ncm No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:59 PM From mrlau at charter.net Sat Aug 2 17:24:54 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:24:54 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] PAPER PUSSY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080802232630.NKJD7436.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> I can't imagine why people don't catch on to these frauds by just reading the description. A person doesn't need any knowledge of Sunbeams to get nervous about this ad. If I wasn't aware of what is trying to be perpetrated the description would make me think it was stolen. Has anyone ever gone back after a sale and sued the seller of an Alger for false advertising. ........ Good work Norm.......... -- Bill -- From CoolVT at aol.com Sat Aug 2 18:44:52 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:44:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] PAPER PUSSY Message-ID: I tihnk the problem is that in some circumstances "re-bodied" cars seem to be acceptable. It seems to me that re-bodying a Tiger is a little tougher....can't really lift a damaged body off the frame and replace it. Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From CMeinel464 at aol.com Sun Aug 3 06:33:22 2008 From: CMeinel464 at aol.com (CMeinel464 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 08:33:22 EDT Subject: [Tigers] PAPER PUSSY Message-ID: Norm, Keep up the great work...... Curt Classic Sunbeam Inc. In a message dated 8/2/2008 6:49:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rootes1 at earthlink.net writes: http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/pistonheads/lloyds-of-london.htm ncm No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:59 PM You are subscribed as cmeinel464 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Sun Aug 3 17:12:40 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 19:12:40 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? Message-ID: E-bay item # 170246146672 Battery relocated? What you have here is an extremely rare, very fast machine. There were only 2700 Sunbeam Tiger Mark 1Abs made. This car has been professionally restored by Syndicate in San Diego, Ca and has only 1700 miles on it since its restoration. It has 4 wheel disc brakes. The battery has been relocated to the trunk with an emergency shut off switch. It has an estimated $20,000.00 invested into the engine alone. It has a custom paint, interior, and a custom roll cage along with 5 point racing harnesses. The car only weighs 2300 lbs. and has been estimated to have between 400-500 hp, so it is incredibly fast. This car really has too much to list. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut000500000000 17 ) From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Sun Aug 3 17:31:40 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 19:31:40 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? Message-ID: Where is the battery in a Alpine?? Behind the r seat?? In a message dated 8/3/2008 4:28:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mmichels at socal.rr.com writes: I was wondering about this one, too. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 4:12 PM Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? > E-bay item # 170246146672 Battery relocated? > > What you have here is an extremely rare, very fast machine. There were > only > 2700 Sunbeam Tiger Mark 1Abs made. This car has been professionally > restored > by Syndicate in San Diego, Ca and has only 1700 miles on it since its > restoration. It has 4 wheel disc brakes. The battery has been relocated > to > the trunk > with an emergency shut off switch. It has an estimated $20,000.00 > invested > into the engine alone. It has a custom paint, interior, and a custom roll > cage > along with 5 point racing harnesses. The car only weighs 2300 lbs. and > has > been estimated to have between 400-500 hp, so it is incredibly fast. This > car > really has too much to list. > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/ex pert-review?ncid=aolaut000500000000 > 17 ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From mmichels at socal.rr.com Sun Aug 3 18:20:42 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:20:42 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? References: Message-ID: <013f01c8f5c7$ee8e9d80$8a01a8c0@delldimension> I believe so. It's where the fuel pump is on Tigers. ----- Original Message ----- From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com To: mmichels at socal.rr.com ; tigers at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] ALGER?? Where is the battery in a Alpine?? Behind the r seat?? In a message dated 8/3/2008 4:28:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mmichels at socal.rr.com writes: I was wondering about this one, too. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 4:12 PM Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? > E-bay item # 170246146672 Battery relocated? > > What you have here is an extremely rare, very fast machine. There were > only > 2700 Sunbeam Tiger Mark 1Abs made. This car has been professionally > restored > by Syndicate in San Diego, Ca and has only 1700 miles on it since its > restoration. It has 4 wheel disc brakes. The battery has been relocated > to > the trunk > with an emergency shut off switch. It has an estimated $20,000.00 > invested > into the engine alone. It has a custom paint, interior, and a custom roll > cage > along with 5 point racing harnesses. The car only weighs 2300 lbs. and > has > been estimated to have between 400-500 hp, so it is incredibly fast. This > car > really has too much to list. > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut000500000000 > 17 ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. From CoolVT at aol.com Sun Aug 3 18:32:05 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:32:05 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? Message-ID: What gets me is the "professionally restored" and then... The convertible top has not been restored. The car does not have windows. The speedometer does not give an accurate speed reading. It has no gas gauge. The blinker arm tends to move sometimes which turns on the left blinker. Other than the things listed above this car is cherry! Also, can someone tell me what you can put into a small block that could run the cost to "over $20,000?" But, I like the car. Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From Landcmitch at aol.com Sun Aug 3 18:32:11 2008 From: Landcmitch at aol.com (Landcmitch at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:32:11 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? Message-ID: Who put the lube spec tag on upside down? Charlie In a message dated 8/3/2008 5:20:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mmichels at socal.rr.com writes: I believe so. It's where the fuel pump is on Tigers. ----- Original Message ----- From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com To: mmichels at socal.rr.com ; tigers at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] ALGER?? Where is the battery in a Alpine?? Behind the r seat?? In a message dated 8/3/2008 4:28:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mmichels at socal.rr.com writes: I was wondering about this one, too. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 4:12 PM Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? > E-bay item # 170246146672 Battery relocated? > > What you have here is an extremely rare, very fast machine. There were > only > 2700 Sunbeam Tiger Mark 1Abs made. This car has been professionally > restored > by Syndicate in San Diego, Ca and has only 1700 miles on it since its > restoration. It has 4 wheel disc brakes. The battery has been relocated > to > the trunk > with an emergency shut off switch. It has an estimated $20,000.00 > invested > into the engine alone. It has a custom paint, interior, and a custom roll > cage > along with 5 point racing harnesses. The car only weighs 2300 lbs. and > has > been estimated to have between 400-500 hp, so it is incredibly fast. This > car > really has too much to list. > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut000500000000 > 17 ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. You are subscribed as landcmitch at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From shutchin at netjets.com Sun Aug 3 18:33:32 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:33:32 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? Message-ID: That would be the "professional restorers." Couldn't resist that one...... Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From geowiz.sgy at cox.net Sun Aug 3 21:16:10 2008 From: geowiz.sgy at cox.net (James E. Pickard) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 22:16:10 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Rubber stop removal Message-ID: <1C9DAD0A8DFA4D8CB93EE9B7B5691D9D@JEPHome> There are four rubber stops under the hood, one at each corner of the engine bay. How do you remove them? Thanks. Jim Pickard B9473298 ('65 Tiger) AN5L/12109 ('59 Sprite) - sold 2003 Mini Cooper Lafayette, LA From CoolVT at aol.com Sun Aug 3 21:21:51 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 23:21:51 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Rubber stop removal Message-ID: The front ones have nuts that you can reach from underneath. I believe the the rear ones have captive nuts...just turn them counter clock wise. If I remember right, they all have lock nuts on top that have to be loosened first. M **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From mmichels at socal.rr.com Sun Aug 3 22:00:16 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:00:16 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fw: Rubber stop removal Message-ID: <017301c8f5e6$9ab22af0$8a01a8c0@delldimension> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Michels" To: "James E. Pickard" Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rubber stop removal > Use a crow foot adapter on a socket wrench extension. I think it's a half > inch size. This will loosen the lock nut and then you can unscrew the > bumper from the threaded insert. Hit it with a little penetrating oil if > it looks old and rusty. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James E. Pickard" > To: "Tiger List" > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 8:16 PM > Subject: [Tigers] Rubber stop removal > > >> There are four rubber stops under the hood, one at each corner of the >> engine >> bay. How do you remove them? Thanks. >> >> Jim Pickard >> B9473298 ('65 Tiger) >> AN5L/12109 ('59 Sprite) - sold >> 2003 Mini Cooper >> Lafayette, LA >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com >> >> Tigers at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers >> >> http://www.team.net/archive From FHSLOTH13 at aol.com Mon Aug 4 08:18:30 2008 From: FHSLOTH13 at aol.com (FHSLOTH13 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:18:30 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? Message-ID: The battery is indeed behind the passenger seat in Alpines, under the shelf behind the seat. My friend has two, a Series III and a IV. The battery sits in a box; the cover is the same as the cover over the Tiger fuel pump. Was there a TAC sticker on the car? I doubt it. Fred Baum 9470768 **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From cmccann at lwpb.com Mon Aug 4 08:32:00 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 09:32:00 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DC0B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> It certainly looks authentic to me, I just get the impression the owner doesn't know a lot about it. He says the battery has been relocated to the rear....which was standard on the tiger; he might think it was done by the PO? Either he is talking about the car as if his audience was uninformed, or he himself sounds a little uninformed. Nice car though, I like the way it was put together, personally. I don't know that he's making 400-500 horse like he says he is....not that its impossible, but its always easier to say it than it is to do it. Cullen From sralsten at ca.rr.com Mon Aug 4 15:03:25 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:03:25 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Re ALGER ?? Message-ID: <22632897.1309871217883805537.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web21-z02> I saw this car offered for sale on a Lotus website about 3 weeks ago as a Mk2 Tiger for $49,500. I wrote him mentioning the spec plate was upside down and the vin if accurate indicates a Mk1A. He said he didn't know anything about the car bu was selling for a friend. It quickly appeared on ebay wih a very large price reduction from the first quote I was given. Steve From sralsten at ca.rr.com Mon Aug 4 15:07:16 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:07:16 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Re ALGER ?? Message-ID: <29593060.1310691217884036491.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web21-z02> I saw this car offered for sale on a Lotus website about 3 weeks ago as a Mk2 Tiger for $49,500. I wrote him mentioning the spec plate was upside down and the vin if accurate indicates a Mk1A. He said he didn't know anything about the car bu was selling for a friend. It quickly appeared on ebay wih a very large price reduction from the first quote I was given. Steve From vegaslegal at aol.com Mon Aug 4 15:23:40 2008 From: vegaslegal at aol.com (vegaslegal at aol.com) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:23:40 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alger? Message-ID: <8CAC48F8006B33E-9C4-10A3@MBLK-M29.sysops.aol.com> It's supposed to be an MK1A.? Isn't the question suppose to be:? Who put the lube tag on at all? From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 4 15:24:28 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 17:24:28 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Re ALGER ?? Message-ID: I don't know how the spec plate got upside down, but the rivets sure look real. Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From jim at island.net Mon Aug 4 17:17:54 2008 From: jim at island.net (Jim) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:17:54 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Re ALGER ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0dd701c8f688$53211000$4101a8c0@JIMPC> My 2 cents... The spec plate rivets aren't real...and after B382001200...there shouldn't BE rivets ( or holes for them ) let alone a spec plate..! No Mk1A's came with a plate and only the first 1200 had rivets in the holes that someone forgot to stop drilling...! lol! The VIN plate rivets look a little 'more' real as the inside hole is a little smaller...but I think 'original's' have a little smaller hole yet... Having said that...the plate itself actually looks good to me... I've studied a lot of pics of them ... it would seem that the VIN plates weren't stamped with ALL the #'s at the same time...You can see 2 different letter styles on most of them. It looks like they maybe put B382000 LRXFE and on the later ones... B382001 LRXFE on and filled in the actual # and colour code later.. you can see it on that car with '1541' as the first '1' is a different style than the last '1' ...this seems pretty typical... I've also noticed that there is a little extra space between the 'F" and the 'E' if you look real close...This is consistent with most that I've seen .. There's a bunch of other little nuances but for what it's worth...I'd say it's a real plate...where it came from ...who knows... Now that we've scrutinized that part of the car to death...what's next...?? LOL!! BTW, my car has a bogus VIN plate (and original rivets in the spec plate holes)...but the rest of the #'s match ...and it's 'TAC'ed' ...so I do sleep at night... lol!! Jim B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: August 4, 2008 2:24 PM To: sralsten at ca.rr.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Re ALGER ?? I don't know how the spec plate got upside down, but the rivets sure look real. Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000 017 ) You are subscribed as jim at island.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From Paul.Tonizzo at sybase.com Mon Aug 4 17:41:59 2008 From: Paul.Tonizzo at sybase.com (Paul.Tonizzo at sybase.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:41:59 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 1966 Mark Ia for sale Message-ID: 1966 Mark Ia B382002355LXFE - Carnival red #39 paint code - 500 cfm holley - Wiand-stealth 8020 intake manifold - Edelbrock 6032 aluminum heads - Edelbrock 2122a camshaft - Edelbrock bolt bushes, bolt kit, and pushrods - ceramic coated headers - 2-1/4' exhaust - 11K on rebuilt 302 engine - new dash board and dash pad - steering wheel refinished - original Rootes radio and clock - centerforce clutch - Hurst shift kit - wide-ratio transmission - rebuilt front end including powder coated cross member - driveshaft u-joints replaced - excellent soft top - driver paint quality - body very good - interior in very good condition - 5 - 13" Shelby "minilite-style" wheels 195-70-13 tires - all Tiger accessories (air cleaner, overflow bottle, etc.) - not matching hardtop needing refinishing included Fast, solid, turn key car. $28,000 Call Bill (Uxbridge, Ontario, CANADA ) 705 228-1106 From DJoh797014 at aol.com Mon Aug 4 17:44:47 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 19:44:47 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Re ALGER ?? Message-ID: Per the BON Lube Spec plates were deleted from B9473312 on but the holes and rivets remained. The rivets and holes were eliminated with B382001200 If its a MKIA it should have no lube plate unless the PO added it. Dave In a message dated 8/4/2008 4:28:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, CoolVT at aol.com writes: I don't know how the spec plate got upside down, but the rivets sure look real. Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut0005000000001 7 ) You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 4 18:15:36 2008 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 01:15:36 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? or TIGER ???? In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DC0B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> References: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DC0B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Message-ID: <+hvCZFFou5lIFwmj@v8tiger.demon.co.uk> All, Did anyone read that the car was restored by 'syndicate' - I googled it and its a custom shop in San Diego- does anyone know it ? Their website has a few nice looking cars with lots of $$ spent. Not the sort of shop you would go to in order to fake a tiger if the site is accurate. IMHO I think we should use our knowledge to check out cars with an open mind and not shoot form the hip as soon as a non expert description is discovered. There are a lot of owners outside of this group, its not the easiest to find these days for a new owner. Don't get me wrong, Fraudsters are best confirmed, lined up then shot square between the cats eyes - just above the grille centre badge ! (alternatively, facilities permitting, dropped into the Tiger pen at the local zoo) :-) Maybe an open offer of authentication from the CAT / STOA / STOC etc website could be used as a way of welcoming Tiger owners / Sellers. A first impression of - Challenge, doubt and conjecture put off potential owners and enthusiasts as well as fraudsters. Any thoughts ? regards. Jeff In message <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DC0B at LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local>, Cullen McCann writes >It certainly looks authentic to me, I just get the impression the owner >doesn't know a lot about it. He says the battery has been relocated to the >rear....which was standard on the tiger; he might think it was done by the >PO? > >Either he is talking about the car as if his audience was uninformed, or he >himself sounds a little uninformed. > >Nice car though, I like the way it was put together, personally. I don't know >that he's making 400-500 horse like he says he is....not that its impossible, >but its always easier to say it than it is to do it. > >Cullen >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive > -- Jeff Howarth From MWood24020 at aol.com Mon Aug 4 18:29:17 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 20:29:17 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? or TIGER ???? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/4/2008 5:20:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk writes: Any thoughts ? I'm of the mind that this list tends to "guilty until proven innocent" in the stance towards any car that isn't obviously original...and I'm not rendering a value judgement on that, just noting...it is somewhat humorous to observe, however. Mike **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Mon Aug 4 18:43:25 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 20:43:25 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? or TIGER ???? Message-ID: How about you buy it and let us know if it's a Tiger! In a message dated 8/4/2008 5:29:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, MWood24020 at aol.com writes: In a message dated 8/4/2008 5:20:44 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk writes: Any thoughts ? I'm of the mind that this list tends to "guilty until proven innocent" in the stance towards any car that isn't obviously original...and I'm not rendering a value judgement on that, just noting...it is somewhat humorous to observe, however. Mike **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut0005000000001 7 ) You are subscribed as aaaglasss at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From MWood24020 at aol.com Mon Aug 4 18:48:07 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 20:48:07 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? or TIGER ???? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/4/2008 5:44:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, AAAGLASSS at aol.com writes: How about you buy it and let us know if it's a Tiger! :-) No, I already have my Tiger...but, if there's someone interested in the car, I'd be happy, as a TAC Inspector, to get another TAC Inspector and Senior Inspector together and check it out...for a reasonable per diem! **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From michael.s.king at gmail.com Mon Aug 4 19:00:29 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:00:29 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] ALGER?? or TIGER ???? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I sometimes think people jump the gun with the "alger" tag. On ebay there are many inexperienced sellers and often peoploe who are selling on behalf of others and have no idea about sunbeams let alone tigers/alpines/algers. People have owned cars and done repairs/mods that make them look less than authentic.. they remove tags when they do bodywork (and in many ways i understand that.. if you acid dip a car there will be no tags left.. if you are doing a concourse paint job.. how do you make the area round the tags nice etc...) i guess the real trick is to look at the photos and if things are not adding up.. ask questions... offer assitance and see if we can come to an understanding about how things have ended up the way they have. I had a local member here (australia) give my car some flack (and my car is TAC'd) because it doesn't have the side trim and badges and has the wrong gauges in it. Now if you open up the boot panels/door trims you can see where the holes are filled for the side trim.. i have all the original gauges. It also has the fuel pump in the boot (and a fuel cell) which are not stock.. i have all the original bits and a photographic restoration so you can see when the changes were made.. car is TAC'd and there are many marks left by the rootes factory to prove its lineage.. yet less informed people suddenly questioned my car because of one a$$ ... i was quite upset about this as i knew the car was not a fake and i have invested heavily in it... so maybe we should be alittle careful how we phrase things... i'm all for catching people out passing on fradulent cars.. but lets not condem before we know what we are dealing with. just my .02 -- Regards Michael King From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 5 11:38:31 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:38:31 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question Message-ID: <21290012.250311217957911608.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> I've been looking for a good car in a price I can afford for a couple months now. I've got a question for you pros.... I've learned a common spot to find frame rust problems is at the exhaust pass throughs. I have seen something there that I don't quite understand and I hope I can explain it well enough to get an answer. I believe I read on this list that it is normal to find a small lip all around the oval shape frame opening that the exhaust passes through. If the lip is gone it indicates a replacement or repair. True ? I have seen pictures of this area on a couple cars that showed something that I thought was a repair but maybe I was wrong. I'm not sure what the factory original should look like. I've noticed that there appears to be welds holding an 8 inch or so piece of frame that has the pass through cut in the midst of it. Sometimes it appears to be thicker than the rest of the cross member or even a different coloration (maybe holding road grime differently ?) Is this "thickening" of a cross member at the exhaust through a repair or is that the factory ? What really confused me on this as well as my newness was the fact that the last pictures I got of a car for sale had the thicker area with appearence of welds hidden below the grime, but it also had the small lip around the pipe opening. Maybe I've been dismissing a factory correct condition as a repair ? Please straighten me out. If my description is not clear enough I can try to find a way to show a picture. Thanks Steve From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 5 11:38:45 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:38:45 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question Message-ID: <7479499.250371217957925717.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> I've been looking for a good car in a price I can afford for a couple months now. I've got a question for you pros.... I've learned a common spot to find frame rust problems is at the exhaust pass throughs. I have seen something there that I don't quite understand and I hope I can explain it well enough to get an answer. I believe I read on this list that it is normal to find a small lip all around the oval shape frame opening that the exhaust passes through. If the lip is gone it indicates a replacement or repair. True ? I have seen pictures of this area on a couple cars that showed something that I thought was a repair but maybe I was wrong. I'm not sure what the factory original should look like. I've noticed that there appears to be welds holding an 8 inch or so piece of frame that has the pass through cut in the midst of it. Sometimes it appears to be thicker than the rest of the cross member or even a different coloration (maybe holding road grime differently ?) Is this "thickening" of a cross member at the exhaust through a repair or is that the factory ? What really confused me on this as well as my newness was the fact that the last pictures I got of a car for sale had the thicker area with appearence of welds hidden below the grime, but it also had the small lip around the pipe opening. Maybe I've been dismissing a factory correct condition as a repair ? Please straighten me out. If my description is not clear enough I can try to find a way to show a picture. Thanks Steve From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 5 11:47:20 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:47:20 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question Message-ID: Over the years some suppliers have made replacement pieces with the lip so the lip probably isn't an indicator of originality. If a car has had the pass through replaced or repaired..don't panic...it's very common. If you get a car just be sure to drill a drain hole in the center of the X so water can run out. Then it will probably last for the next 50 years. In summary, if the repair is very well done, there shouldn't be a problem with it not being original unless you are planning on a $100,000 concours rig. If you are concerned about rust, I would be looking in the rocker panels, the floor area under the driver's feet and in the wheel wells. The pass through X's are one of the cheapest things to repair/replace. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Tue Aug 5 11:48:46 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 18:48:46 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question In-Reply-To: <7479499.250371217957925717.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> References: <7479499.250371217957925717.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <39a841b0808051048o3499e54fi9605b11a6e145ccb@mail.gmail.com> i can't comment on whats original or not but here is a (bad) picture of my left pass-through: http://owainlloyd.no-ip.com:8080/photos/Tiger/bellhousing%20inspection%20plate/slides/CIMG4488.JPG the right side looks a little different - looks as if its been patched. sorry, i don't have a picture of that side. On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 6:38 PM, wrote: > I've been looking for a good car in a price I can afford for a couple months now. I've got a question for you pros.... > > I've learned a common spot to find frame rust problems is at the exhaust pass throughs. I have seen something there that I don't quite understand and I hope I can explain it well enough to get an answer. I believe I read on this list that it is normal to find a small lip all around the oval shape frame opening that the exhaust passes through. If the lip is gone it indicates a replacement or repair. True ? > > I have seen pictures of this area on a couple cars that showed something that I thought was a repair but maybe I was wrong. I'm not sure what the factory original should look like. I've noticed that there appears to be welds holding an 8 inch or so piece of frame that has the pass through cut in the midst of it. Sometimes it appears to be thicker than the rest of the cross member or even a different coloration (maybe holding road grime differently ?) > > Is this "thickening" of a cross member at the exhaust through a repair or is that the factory ? What really confused me on this as well as my newness was the fact that the last pictures I got of a car for sale had the thicker area with appearence of welds hidden below the grime, but it also had the small lip around the pipe opening. Maybe I've been dismissing a factory correct condition as a repair ? Please straighten me out. If my description is not clear enough I can try to find a way to show a picture. > > Thanks > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 5 12:06:31 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:06:31 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Message-ID: <12573955.255921217959591135.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Although I am still reading, looking at cars and shopping for a car. This whole issue of Algers/TAC is nearly enough to drive one away from interest in the marque and probably has driven many away. If I spend $40K for an E type there is no doubt at all that it is one. Condition and correctness vary but it's certainly not a converted MGB. If I spend $40K on a Tiger its not the same. Then if you add to that the modifications that people make to their "real" Tigers it gets almost comical. I was at Tigers United 31 to see cars and meet owners. I had a great time and learned a bunch. What I found very interesting was at concours day there was literally a handful of cars competeing in the stock category and one of those was a mismatch of Mk1 and Mk2 parts. The vast majority or cars were "modded" or "personalized" (I don't really understand the difference) How can the Tiger owners as a group be so concerned about authenticity when so few leave their cars stock ? How can putting a 260 in an Alpine be such a big deal when people buy "real" Tigers and change them beyond all recognition ? How does it remain a "real" Tiger with 4 wheel discs, 5 spd, 302, AC, non stock paint, non stock wheels, alternator etc etc etc ? Now I don't want to make a bunch of enimies with this but the post I respond to asked for thoughts. Mine are from someone with only months of Tiger knowledge who wants badly to own a car but does not yet. As said I find the "correctness/modification" issue to be quite off-putting. Steve Ralsten IMHO I think we should use our knowledge to check out cars with an open mind and not shoot form the hip as soon as a non expert description is discovered. There are a lot of owners outside of this group, its not the easiest to find these days for a new owner. Don't get me wrong, Fraudsters are best confirmed, lined up then shot square between the cats eyes - just above the grille centre badge ! (alternatively, facilities permitting, dropped into the Tiger pen at the local zoo) :-) Maybe an open offer of authentication from the CAT / STOA / STOC etc website could be used as a way of welcoming Tiger owners / Sellers. A first impression of - Challenge, doubt and conjecture put off potential owners and enthusiasts as well as fraudsters. Any thoughts ? regards. Jeff From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 5 12:06:58 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:06:58 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Message-ID: <18631323.255991217959618143.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Although I am still reading, looking at cars and shopping for a car. This whole issue of Algers/TAC is nearly enough to drive one away from interest in the marque and probably has driven many away. If I spend $40K for an E type there is no doubt at all that it is one. Condition and correctness vary but it's certainly not a converted MGB. If I spend $40K on a Tiger its not the same. Then if you add to that the modifications that people make to their "real" Tigers it gets almost comical. I was at Tigers United 31 to see cars and meet owners. I had a great time and learned a bunch. What I found very interesting was at concours day there was literally a handful of cars competeing in the stock category and one of those was a mismatch of Mk1 and Mk2 parts. The vast majority or cars were "modded" or "personalized" (I don't really understand the difference) How can the Tiger owners as a group be so concerned about authenticity when so few leave their cars stock ? How can putting a 260 in an Alpine be such a big deal when people buy "real" Tigers and change them beyond all recognition ? How does it remain a "real" Tiger with 4 wheel discs, 5 spd, 302, AC, non stock paint, non stock wheels, alternator etc etc etc ? Now I don't want to make a bunch of enimies with this but the post I respond to asked for thoughts. Mine are from someone with only months of Tiger knowledge who wants badly to own a car but does not yet. As said I find the "correctness/modification" issue to be quite off-putting. Steve Ralsten IMHO I think we should use our knowledge to check out cars with an open mind and not shoot form the hip as soon as a non expert description is discovered. There are a lot of owners outside of this group, its not the easiest to find these days for a new owner. Don't get me wrong, Fraudsters are best confirmed, lined up then shot square between the cats eyes - just above the grille centre badge ! (alternatively, facilities permitting, dropped into the Tiger pen at the local zoo) :-) Maybe an open offer of authentication from the CAT / STOA / STOC etc website could be used as a way of welcoming Tiger owners / Sellers. A first impression of - Challenge, doubt and conjecture put off potential owners and enthusiasts as well as fraudsters. Any thoughts ? regards. Jeff From shutchin at netjets.com Tue Aug 5 12:13:08 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:13:08 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Message-ID: Now you know why they are rare, fun and interesting cars and yet still fairly cheap. Seems like a great group of owners too. Can't imagine the e-type guys have anywhere near the fun we do. ;) Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From mark.rense at ge.com Tue Aug 5 13:09:46 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:09:46 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? In-Reply-To: <12573955.255921217959591135.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> References: <12573955.255921217959591135.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: Steve, First of all, welcome to this little conclave of anal-retentive anarchists! You have discovered a little dirty secret: Tigers are one of the few iconic classic car types that do not seem to suffer from personal modifications and variations from OEM stock configuration. Maybe it's because the are low volume hybrids, maybe because they were imperfect and underdeveloped by their parent company, maybe because we can't resist the challenge of taking an antique car and forcing it into a 21st century performance bubble. It's probably a little of all the above. We're not the only ones out there, the Cobra, Pantera and the TVR come to mind as well. Until recently, the value of a stock Tiger was not comparable to an E-Type Series I or even to the Big Healeys, so most owners did not consider the value of the car's originality when making modifications. There are many Tigers out there that are meticulously kept as original and as stock as possible by their owners. Then there are all the variations beyond stock. I think Tiger owners are a little more of the hooligan sort, enjoying the dichotomy of a big-assed engine in a little car. Most of us like to tinker and improve the breed, and a stock Tiger literally screams for it. The E-Type Jags or BJ8 Healeys were complete cars, gradually developed over many years. The Tiger was not as fortunate, so there is more room for improvement. I am fortunate to own two Tigers, one painfully stock and original, the other not. I chose to go with "period correct" modifications on the one car (5-bolt hypo 289, corrected and reinforced front and rear suspension and brakes), making sure that the changes were reversible. Driving the two back-to-back is a night and day experience. I think you will find the vast majority of Tiger owners following a similar path, applying improvements that can be reversed back to stock if needed. There are a pant-load of old, tired 164 hp 260s, remote oil filters, generators, and Toploaders sitting under garage work benches right now just waiting for the day to be reunited with their chassis. That day may come for some if the values keep going up. So, the question now is: what do you want? If you want to cherish, preserve and enjoy the breed as it was in 1964, then you want a stock, original car. If you have a glint in your eye, and the thought of owning a sleeper little car with 300 hp gives you cold shivers, well, we got that too! Bugz B382000991 B382001465 -----Original Message----- From: sralsten at ca.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:07 PM To: Tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Now I don't want to make a bunch of enimies with this but the post I respond to asked for thoughts. Mine are from someone with only months of Tiger knowledge who wants badly to own a car but does not yet. As said I find the "correctness/modification" issue to be quite off-putting. Steve Ralsten From atwittsend at verizon.net Tue Aug 5 13:10:24 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:10:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? References: <18631323.255991217959618143.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <001a01c8f72e$ea24dda0$0302a8c0@student2> >>>How can the Tiger owners as a group be so concerned about authenticity >>>when so few leave their cars stock ?<<< Steve, The authentisity relates to the fact that the unibody structure was one that was originally altered by Jensen, and initially sold as a Tiger. It does not have to do with the fact that the car remains stock. It was pointed out to me once that a Tiger could be converted into an Alpine and still be considered a Tiger (all be it a modified one) based on the alterations that Jensen originally performed. If you were at TU31 you no doubt heard that talk on the racing Alpines. Now, some Alpines were never raced, while others were. Putting the race items (wheels, tires, parts, numbers etc.) on a "street" Alpine will never make it a car that was ever in a race. There is a petigree that followed those real race Alpines. In like fashion one could theoretically alter an Alpine to a Tiger configuration. But, that does not mean it carries the same petagree as a Tiger that was originally created by Jensen. What the Tiger community is trying to do is preserve the "bloodline" of the Tiger. There are those who know ever subtle nuance of a real Tiger and use that as the standard. Alger's in and of themselves are not considered a bad thing. Passing an Alger off as a Tiger is. In the end you have the choice of buying and Alger with all the qualities of a Tiger. In some cases even better. You may get a good deal on it and enjoy it. But in the family bloodline it is still thought of as the illegitimate child. It may be related, but it is not of THE family (Tigers). I hope that helps to understand the efforts made to ensure why people strive to make sue a Tiger is really a Tiger (modified or not). Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 8/5/2008 6:03 AM From jteepen at usatoday.com Tue Aug 5 14:13:43 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 16:13:43 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question In-Reply-To: <21290012.250311217957911608.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97231DBED62@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> In addition to the other responses, the original exhaust pipes were crimped to allow more room around them where they pass through the x-member. With exhaust system upgrades many of the ovals were opened up to allow larger pipes. Anything and everything has been found to have been done to this area in the name of better exhaust flow. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sralsten at ca.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:39 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question I've been looking for a good car in a price I can afford for a couple months now. I've got a question for you pros.... I've learned a common spot to find frame rust problems is at the exhaust pass throughs. I have seen something there that I don't quite understand and I hope I can explain it well enough to get an answer. I believe I read on this list that it is normal to find a small lip all around the oval shape frame opening that the exhaust passes through. If the lip is gone it indicates a replacement or repair. True ? I have seen pictures of this area on a couple cars that showed something that I thought was a repair but maybe I was wrong. I'm not sure what the factory original should look like. I've noticed that there appears to be welds holding an 8 inch or so piece of frame that has the pass through cut in the midst of it. Sometimes it appears to be thicker than the rest of the cross member or even a different coloration (maybe holding road grime differently ?) Is this "thickening" of a cross member at the exhaust through a repair or is that the factory ? What really confused me on this as well as my newness was the fact that the last pictures I got of a car for sale had the thicker area with appearence of welds hidden below the grime, but it also had the small lip around the pipe opening. Maybe I've been dismissing a factory correct condition as a repair ? Please straighten me out. If my description is not clear enough I can try to find a way to show a picture. Thanks Steve From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 5 14:26:47 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 16:26:47 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Algers?? Tigers?? Message-ID: Bugz, I think that was very well put. Think back 18-20 yrs when you could buy a rusted Tiger for $2,000. It was just an old street car and when repairing it, it was pretty easy to swap in a 289 or 302. I just don't think that people now paying $30,000- $50,000 for cars will be quite as apt to modify them. And you're right, I along with hundreds other owners have every single part that was taken off, boxed and labeled...ready to bolt back on. Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue Aug 5 15:27:56 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:27:56 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers vs Alger Values In-Reply-To: <12573955.255921217959591135.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> References: <12573955.255921217959591135.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <4898C5DC.1050005@SoCal.rr.com> Steve Ralsten, and Tigers, My $ 00.02 worth: Although my own car is stock, with the exceptions of some LAT equipment and easily removed cooling features (originals in box), I think a number of points should be considered: 1. For collectors, authenticity is paramount to value. 2. The increasing value of the Tiger attracts fraudulent (meant to deceive) resellers. 3. Even at American Muscle Car Auctions (like Mecum ref: http://www.mecumauction.com/ ) There are frequent "Tribute" cars that are not as badged, but being sold as replicas at a greatly reduced price. 4. Fraud is prevalent, and often not revealed at auctions, EBay, Car dealers, etc. 5. Sometimes known to the seller, sometimes not. Since it is prevalent, and I (for one) object to being the target of fraud, misrepresentation, etc. are greatly interested in "provenance" so money is not spent for deception, or ignorance. "Ne Caveat Emptor" (Buyer Beware) is always applicable because nobody likes fraud, misrepresentation, or non-full disclosure. It's your money, though. Would you like a nice Cobra for less than 10% of the going market rate? How about a Ford GT40? ;-) Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote: > <---- snip ----> > How can the Tiger owners as a group be so concerned about authenticity when so few leave their cars stock ? How can putting a 260 in an Alpine be such a big deal when people buy "real" Tigers and change them beyond all recognition ? > How does it remain a "real" Tiger with 4 wheel discs, 5 spd, 302, AC, non stock paint, non stock wheels, alternator etc etc etc ? > > Now I don't want to make a bunch of enimies with this but the post I respond to > asked for thoughts. Mine are from someone with only months of Tiger knowledge who wants badly to own a car but does not yet. As said I find the "correctness/modification" issue to be quite off-putting. > > Steve Ralsten From achd73 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 5 15:58:52 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Vin tag numbers In-Reply-To: <18631323.255991217959618143.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <615042.56958.qm@web30308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a question that I think I know the correct response to but since LIST email I receive is more interesting than jokes and offers of the money I have waiting in the Uk or Africa, I will add to the discussion of the Vin tag. I know and understand the vin numbers and the paint code BUT are the other two sets of numbers the orginal engine number, the tranny or rear end number or something Rootes used at the factory? Any knowledge would on the numbers would be educational for myself and others who have no idea. TTT From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 5 18:17:09 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 20:17:09 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question Message-ID: <33385028.336261217981829222.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web25-z02> Heres a picture which somewhat illustrates the issue. This car was listed on ebay. Notice the discoloration below the closer exhaust through and also on the further one which may have welds as well. Is this a repair removing rusted out sections ? http://i10.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/ff/47/e187_12.JPG ---- "Teepen wrote: > In addition to the other responses, the original exhaust pipes were crimped to allow more room around them where they pass through the x-member. With exhaust system upgrades many of the ovals were opened up to allow larger pipes. Anything and everything has been found to have been done to this area in the name of better exhaust flow. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sralsten at ca.rr.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:39 AM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question > > I've been looking for a good car in a price I can afford for a couple months now. I've got a question for you pros.... > > I've learned a common spot to find frame rust problems is at the exhaust pass throughs. I have seen something there that I don't quite understand and I hope I can explain it well enough to get an answer. I believe I read on this list that it is normal to find a small lip all around the oval shape frame opening that the exhaust passes through. If the lip is gone it indicates a replacement or repair. True ? > > I have seen pictures of this area on a couple cars that showed something that I thought was a repair but maybe I was wrong. I'm not sure what the factory original should look like. I've noticed that there appears to be welds holding an 8 inch or so piece of frame that has the pass through cut in the midst of it. Sometimes it appears to be thicker than the rest of the cross member or even a different coloration (maybe holding road grime differently ?) > > Is this "thickening" of a cross member at the exhaust through a repair or is that the factory ? What really confused me on this as well as my newness was the fact that the last pictures I got of a car for sale had the thicker area with appearence of welds hidden below the grime, but it also had the small lip around the pipe opening. Maybe I've been dismissing a factory correct condition as a repair ? Please straighten me out. If my description is not clear enough I can try to find a way to show a picture. > > Thanks > > Steve From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 5 18:42:58 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 20:42:58 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Re Tiger Newbie question with pic Message-ID: <25315497.340311217983378861.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web25-z02> I found a pic of the condition I was trying to describe. This car was listed on ebay. On both sides the frame appears darker and thicker possibly with welds at the exhaust opening. Is this a repair ? http://i10.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/ff/47/e187_12.JPG From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 5 18:43:39 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 20:43:39 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Re Tiger Newbie question with pic Message-ID: <28809983.340451217983419826.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web25-z02> I found a pic of the condition I was trying to describe. This car was listed on ebay. On both sides the frame appears darker and thicker possibly with welds at the exhaust opening. Is this a repair ? http://i10.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/ff/47/e187_12.JPG From robin02 at mindspring.com Tue Aug 5 19:58:48 2008 From: robin02 at mindspring.com (RObin Young) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 21:58:48 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger newbie question In-Reply-To: <33385028.336261217981829222.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web25-z02> References: <33385028.336261217981829222.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web25-z02> Message-ID: <021601c8f767$f837ae70$6601a8c0@RobinLaptop> Hi Steve...this looks to me like one of the repair/straightening items has been done. A common approach to improving this area of the frame is to use a 3" galvanized electrical conduit squeezed to an oval and slightly enlarge the pass-through with it before welding it in place. This does increase strength as well as blocking most water from entering the cruciform. As mentioned earlier, still drill a hole in the center to relieve water that will find a way in. Robin Young B9471769 Heres a picture which somewhat illustrates the issue. This car was listed on ebay. Notice the discoloration below the closer exhaust through and also on the further one which may have welds as well. Is this a repair removing rusted out sections ? http://i10.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/ff/47/e187_12.JPG From cmccann at lwpb.com Wed Aug 6 06:49:30 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:49:30 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 In-Reply-To: <12573955.255921217959591135.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> References: <12573955.255921217959591135.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DF25@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Steve, This email got longer than I thought it would be so this is email 1 of 2. I have only been a Tiger owner for a couple of years. So please take my opinion with a grain of salt, I suppose. When I first joined this list I was immediately faced with the same impression that you have been, and would like to offer my thoughts as well in regards to your comments. When I proposed nearly the same question, I got a lot of different opinions....but that's just the nature of this. If you get on the email list for the corvette group, or the Shelby group, or the model T group...I guarantee you get the same issue, I don't think its unique to Sunbeams....actually I know its not because I've been on those other groups...and they talk about the same stuff. First of all, I think all on the list would agree at some level, that the critical factor in whether a Sunbeam is a Tiger or an Alpine is simply what it started out as on the assembly line. The original body tub is either a Tiger, or its not..( with the possible exception of a few one-off prototypes and race cars that have huge historical value and are probably exempt from this entire discussion..) In my opinion, no matter what is done to the car, it doesn't change what it was born as. You can have a Tiger body with a chevy V6 in it, with a chevette rear suspension and a blower sticking out of the hood, painted purple with flames and gold flake glitter...and its still a Tiger. Granted most of us, me included, would consider it in very poor taste, and an embarrassment to what that car was meant to be...but whether I like it or not, its still a Tiger. I feel very strongly that the customization factor changes that. The customization factor simply changes its desirability among the different disciplines of followers. ****************************************************** Steve said: "How can the Tiger owners as a group be so concerned about authenticity when so few leave their cars stock ? How can putting a 260 in an Alpine be such a big deal when people buy "real" Tigers and change them beyond all recognition ? How does it remain a "real" Tiger with 4 wheel discs, 5 spd, 302, AC, non stock paint, non stock wheels, alternator etc etc etc ? Now I don't want to make a bunch of enimies with this but the post I respond to asked for thoughts. Mine are from someone with only months of Tiger knowledge who wants badly to own a car but does not yet. As said I find the "correctness/modification" issue to be quite off-putting." Steve Ralsten From cmccann at lwpb.com Wed Aug 6 06:50:40 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:50:40 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 2 of 2 Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DF26@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Part 2 of 2 continued: Steve, I would encourage you not to be put-out by the different facets surrounding this issue. Like everything else out there, if you talk to 10 people you will get 10 different opinions, but it doesn't have to mean that your experience with the car is compromised. To me, this entire issue is a lot like when the replica Shelby cobras hit the market years ago. There are originals, and there are impressions, and personally I don't mind a replica of anything (I shouldn't because I have one) but I don't try to pass it off as an authentic cobra. I will tell anyone who asks that it's a replica. I think of it as a die cast or plastic model sitting on a bookshelf that is big enough to drive around in and have fun, and I subscribe to the idea that impersonation is the highest form of flattery. Likewise I don't mind it when someone builds an Alpine and puts a V8 in it, as long as its represented for what it is. But, on the other hand, people who own authentic Tigers want to preserve their investment, just as those who own real Cobras would want to preserve theirs. I personally don't want my Tiger confused with a clone or a tribute car, for the simple reason that an Alpine can be purchased much cheaper and is less collectible, and I'm tickled that I'm in a point in my life where I can have a car with as much collectability and historical significance as a Tiger. I am proud that its as special as it is, and want it to remain as such. I guess to answer your question, it absolutely remains a "real" Tiger with all the additions you mentioned, just not everybody aggress with whether or not they should be on there....anyway, that was supposed to be a short thought...oh well. Thanks, Cullen ****************************************************** Steve said: "How can the Tiger owners as a group be so concerned about authenticity when so few leave their cars stock ? How can putting a 260 in an Alpine be such a big deal when people buy "real" Tigers and change them beyond all recognition ? How does it remain a "real" Tiger with 4 wheel discs, 5 spd, 302, AC, non stock paint, non stock wheels, alternator etc etc etc ? Now I don't want to make a bunch of enimies with this but the post I respond to asked for thoughts. Mine are from someone with only months of Tiger knowledge who wants badly to own a car but does not yet. As said I find the "correctness/modification" issue to be quite off-putting." Steve Ralsten From cmccann at lwpb.com Wed Aug 6 06:55:27 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:55:27 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DF25@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> References: <12573955.255921217959591135.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DF25@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DF28@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Whoops....I had a typo...I meant to say that I feel very strongly that the customization factor DOESN'T change that. " I feel very strongly that the customization factor changes that. The customization factor simply changes its desirability among the different disciplines of followers." From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 6 08:11:50 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:11:50 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261DF28@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Message-ID: <20080806141326.SOSX570.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> I built a very nice Alger years ago and non informed people always thought it was a Tiger or possibly something even more exotic and I had to correct them that it was an Alpine I modified. I felt it was an accomplishment to take an Alpine that I paid $75 for and put in the V8, steering, and transmission because I didn't use any Tiger parts or see one to copy for that matter and that was more important than being an actual Tiger. I really didn't care that it wasn't a Tiger but at the same time wouldn't have thought of selling it as such because the memory of being unethical would last forever and diminish the other good memories of building the car. Something about sitting around when you are 75 and counting on your fingers and bragging how many times you cheated people doesn't seem attractive. Sometimes I wish I had kept the car but for me the real fun was doing the work and besides the car was finished and I got offered so much money I couldn't pass it up. -- Bill -- From rfraser at bluefrog.com Wed Aug 6 08:40:45 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 10:40:45 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Vin tag numbers In-Reply-To: <615042.56958.qm@web30308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c8f7d2$6f38ded0$6d911840@ronpc1> Tony That is the engine serial number only. The alpha-numeric part of that number is a date code from Ford. Norm Miller has more information on his web site. http://www.rootes1.com/index.asp Go to "The Magic" - Bits and Pieces; Page 4 Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony Somebody Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:59 PM To: Tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vin tag numbers I have a question that I think I know the correct response to but since LIST email I receive is more interesting than jokes and offers of the money I have waiting in the Uk or Africa, I will add to the discussion of the Vin tag. I know and understand the vin numbers and the paint code BUT are the other two sets of numbers the orginal engine number, the tranny or rear end number or something Rootes used at the factory? Any knowledge would on the numbers would be educational for myself and others who have no idea. TTT You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 8/5/2008 6:03 AM From rfraser at bluefrog.com Wed Aug 6 08:59:17 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 10:59:17 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 In-Reply-To: <20080806141326.SOSX570.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <000001c8f7d5$038ebd00$6d911840@ronpc1> Bill My thoughts exactly; honesty is most important to me. If I had the talent to modify an Alpine with a V8, steering and other parts; I would want to promote that talent into more business. I would even keep all the Alpine badges on the car and probably 1 exhaust pipe out the back to make a real sleeper. If the Alpine parts car I have was structurally sound I would look at putting a VW VR6 engine into it and really confuse some people. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Lau Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:12 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 I built a very nice Alger years ago and non informed people always thought it was a Tiger or possibly something even more exotic and I had to correct them that it was an Alpine I modified. I felt it was an accomplishment to take an Alpine that I paid $75 for and put in the V8, steering, and transmission because I didn't use any Tiger parts or see one to copy for that matter and that was more important than being an actual Tiger. I really didn't care that it wasn't a Tiger but at the same time wouldn't have thought of selling it as such because the memory of being unethical would last forever and diminish the other good memories of building the car. Something about sitting around when you are 75 and counting on your fingers and bragging how many times you cheated people doesn't seem attractive. Sometimes I wish I had kept the car but for me the real fun was doing the work and besides the car was finished and I got offered so much money I couldn't pass it up. -- Bill -- You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 8/5/2008 6:03 AM From MWood24020 at aol.com Wed Aug 6 09:32:35 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:32:35 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 Message-ID: Question: What has been the highest price paid for a Tiger that was not a factory one off or car with bona fide racing history? I think the answer will surprise many of you... ;-) Mike **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From CoolVT at aol.com Wed Aug 6 09:52:25 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:52:25 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 Message-ID: I think there was a highly modified Tiger that sold at auction in the past year for around $105-$110. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From cars at wt-inc.com Wed Aug 6 09:57:30 2008 From: cars at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:57:30 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000c01c8f7dd$22022c60$66068520$@com> If you are referring to the "tiger" built by Dale A it is actually listed on his website as "the worlds most modified Alpine". I know of one tiger that the owner plans on getting over 100K when complete. I believe he will get it without too much trouble -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+cars=wt-inc.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:52 AM To: MWood24020 at aol.com; cmccann at lwpb.com; Tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 I think there was a highly modified Tiger that sold at auction in the past year for around $105-$110. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000 017 ) You are subscribed as cars at wt-inc.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 6 10:58:25 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:58:25 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 In-Reply-To: <000001c8f7d5$038ebd00$6d911840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <20080806170001.CNPQ7436.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Ron There are a lot of neat engines that would fit in an Alpine or whatever old car today. Some of the very small engines have a lot of power and the transmissions are a lot smaller than they used to be. My $75 car didn't have any badges to leave on. If I had bought some it would have doubled my price. I believe I spent $1700 on it total and I kept track of hours too but don't remember how many however it was minimal. I kept the original 4.22 gears so it was a screamer off the line with the automatic tranny. Don't sell yourself short on talent because I don't think it is that hard now. When I did it you had to know how to acetylene and arc weld and that takes some practice, especially acetylene. Now if you buy a good mig welder the only difficult part for someone not experienced is setting it up and adjusting it. Once you have that accomplished it is almost like using a caulking gun. The new spray systems are great too. The skill doesn't lie in being able to do the work but finding out how to do it and having the equipment. If you aren't doing it for a living, time doesn't matter and the plethora of information on the net today can have you doing anything. The rush you get when it is done right is many times more valuable than actually having it. --Bill -- Bill My thoughts exactly; honesty is most important to me. If I had the talent to modify an Alpine with a V8, steering and other parts; I would want to promote that talent into more business. I would even keep all the Alpine badges on the car and probably 1 exhaust pipe out the back to make a real sleeper. If the Alpine parts car I have was structurally sound I would look at putting a VW VR6 engine into it and really confuse some people. Ron Fraser From mark.rense at ge.com Wed Aug 6 11:18:39 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:18:39 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? - now - Highest Price Paid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know that a good friend's very well restored and immaculate BRG MKII sold last year for $72K. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of MWood24020 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:33 AM To: cmccann at lwpb.com; Tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 Question: What has been the highest price paid for a Tiger that was not a factory one off or car with bona fide racing history? I think the answer will surprise many of you... ;-) Mike **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut0005000 0000017 ) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as mark.rense at ge.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 6 12:21:11 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:21:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Original as they come Message-ID: <006801c8f7f1$34fdb3c0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> "Question: What has been the highest price paid for a Tiger that was not a factory one off or car with bona fide racing history? I think the answer will surprise many of you..". I think the record goes to the Tiger sold last spring which went for over $100,000. The car was more of a resto-mod than a "original" survivor. As far as I know, the Sunbeam Tiger is the only marque that the buyer market seems to value customized and modified cars over original. The highest I ever heard of a non-modified Tiger selling for is in the $50,000 range. Take any other collector car and modify it and you have knocked off a significant part of the market value of the car. You can check the auction results and original cars bring much higher bids than modified for the most part. I always thought that original beats modified in the market and that is why my car is as original as I can make it. Although with the Tiger, that is probably a false assumption. If someone really wants to buy a real Tiger I wouldn't let the fact that their are fake Tigers put you off. You have to do your research before you buy. I had a friend who thought he was buying a real Pontiac GTO until he had a member of the local Pontiac club check the car out and it was a fake. Of course the seller disavowed any knowledge of converting a Pontiac LeMans into a GTO. It happens all the time. Jeff From cmccann at lwpb.com Wed Aug 6 12:57:38 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:57:38 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Alger ?? Tiger ??? Part 1 of 2 In-Reply-To: <000c01c8f7dd$22022c60$66068520$@com> References: <000c01c8f7dd$22022c60$66068520$@com> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647335261E00B@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> In all due respect to Dale, he had a bad experience with the nature of the transaction with the owner and has tried to...well...discredit the car. Norm once chimed in to clarify that it's definitely a Tiger. CM "If you are referring to the "tiger" built by Dale A it is actually listed on his website as "the worlds most modified Alpine". I know of one tiger that the owner plans on getting over 100K when complete. I believe he will get it without too much trouble" From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Wed Aug 6 15:40:26 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 17:40:26 EDT Subject: [Tigers] F4B or Cast 4BL Man Message-ID: Is one better than the other in producing power? Other than light weight is the F4B better than cast? Thanks B382002560 **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From atwittsend at verizon.net Wed Aug 6 16:18:20 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:18:20 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] F4B or Cast 4BL Man References: Message-ID: <00b601c8f812$55796ce0$0302a8c0@student2> >From everything I've read most people prefer the F4B over the current Performer. Some claim the Performer is basically just an aluminum version of the standard 4bbl. manifold. Being that there are a number of "factory" manifolds I'm not sure how they make the comparison. They seem to state that the F4B falls somewhere between the regular Performer and an "Air Gap." Anyway, that is all, "I've heard" information. I'm sure there are others with real experience. I have a regular Performer waiting installment. I got it used for $45 and figured even if there was no performance gain to the engine the lost weight had to count for something in a front heavy car. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: [Tigers] F4B or Cast 4BL Man > Is one better than the other in producing power? Other than light weight > is > the F4B better than cast? Thanks > > > B382002560 > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as atwittsend at verizon.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1595 - Release Date: 8/6/2008 > 8:23 AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1595 - Release Date: 8/6/2008 8:23 AM From michael.s.king at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 16:59:39 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 08:59:39 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Original as they come In-Reply-To: <006801c8f7f1$34fdb3c0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> References: <006801c8f7f1$34fdb3c0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: Here in Austrlai we probably have the highest Tiger prices in the world. Stock cars attract the highest $ with modified cars only a little behind. A concourse stock MKIA sold here in 2006 for 90K and a MKII to the same spec for the same $. There is now a concourse MKII here for 125K.. -- Regards Michael King From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 6 17:27:57 2008 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 19:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Update - BRISBANE MARINA BRITISH CAR MEET - Sept. 6 & 7, 2008 Message-ID: <2051838.1218065277648.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> NEW WEBSITE: www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html LODGING ALTERNATIVES Dear British Motorhead, We have checked out the lodging situation in the Brisbane area for people who live far enough away to stay overnight for a night or two for a more relaxed weekend. Carole Burton, the official British meet travel agent, got us a DEAL at the Radisson Hotel, right in the Brisbane Marina! The Radisson is a very upscale, business type hotel with gourmet restaurant. We have special British Car Meet rate of $109 per day, Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Address, 5000 Sierra Point Parkway, Brisbane, Phone 415-467-4400. Ask for the British Car Meet rates. More local North Bay lodging on our website: www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html Best, Rick Feibusch 310-392-6605 Meet Coordinator - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NEW WEBSITE: www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html THE BRISBANE MARINA BRITISH CAR MEET * 2008 The Weekend Of Saturday & Sunday * Sept. 6th & 7th Join your British car friends for a smashing day at the Brisbane Marina at Sierra Point. Over 300 quirky, classic, and lovable British cars will once again gather in the Bay Area for our 31st Annual British Car Meet. Don't have a show car? Don't worry! Daily drivers, vintage racers, street rods and works-in-progress are as welcome as Concours quality show cars. This is essentially the old Palo Alto British Meet in a new location. We are also expecting another great display of automotive oddities provided by the Arcane Auto Society. Spectators attend and park for free. SUNDAY SHOW - BRISBANE MARINA - SEPTEMBER 7th Cars will be placed at 9:00AM and the fun goes on all day. The food will be handled by the Brisbane Lions Club and the Sierra Point Yacht Club will open their doors on Sunday for a reasonable, sit-down breakfast Herb Gibson's Jazz Orchestra will be back again, set up just outside the Yacht Club. There is no preregistration. There will be marque awards in over 15 classes and all entrants will receive a commemorative gift. The registration fee is $25 per car at the gate. SATURDAY TOUR - SEPTEMBER 6th The British Car Meet TOUR TO THE SEA starts at the Brisbane Marina boathouse (the same place as the Sunday Car Show) and winds through the hills to the sea. Itbs no-cost option for people who like to drive their cars as well as show them. We will be sending cars off between 9:00AM and 10:30AM. A detailed map will be provided. The tour ends at Cameron's Pub in Half Moon Bay where we will be kicking tyres and telling tall tales in the car park well into the afternoon. DIRECTIONS: The Brisbane Marina is lacated just east of the Bayshore Freeway (101) between San Francisco and the SF Airport/Highway 380. Just take the Brisbane/Sierra Point Exit and follow the signs to the Marina. Trailer parking will be available on-site. Call for information: 310-392-6605 e-mail: Brisbane Marina 2008 Website: http://www.allcarcentral.com/thebritishcarnetwork.html From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 6 17:42:41 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:42:41 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] F4B or Cast 4BL Man In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080806234417.UZCG570.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> I'll bet this could be argued every way that is possible. I don't think there is very much difference and I'm pretty sure it would depend on what other engine modifications were involved anyway. Generally, modifying one thing does just about nothing because flow has to be balanced to work right. Besides, if you got 7 more Hp from one how would you know. -- Bill -- Is one better than the other in producing power? Other than light weight is the F4B better than cast? Thanks B382002560 From MWood24020 at aol.com Wed Aug 6 17:54:59 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 19:54:59 EDT Subject: [Tigers] F4B or Cast 4BL Man Message-ID: In a message dated 8/6/2008 4:44:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mrlau at charter.net writes: I'll bet this could be argued every way that is possible. I don't think there is very much difference and I'm pretty sure it would depend on what other engine modifications were involved anyway. I'm not sure that a F4B can support much more than a stock head, low cfm 4bbl combo, but it is period and Tiger correct, of course, and should outperform the FoMoCo cast iron equivalent from that era :-) I would love to see a dyno plot of the Performer vs. F4B on that same motor, though...my guess is that the "old school" manifold would get smoked, to say nothing of the option of moving to the Performer RPM. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From lpaulick at comcast.net Wed Aug 6 18:06:42 2008 From: lpaulick at comcast.net (Larry Paulick) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 20:06:42 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] F4B or Cast 4BL Man In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <489A3C92.50804@comcast.net> Mike, when I did my 1990 5.0, with 2.25" exhaust, headers and 600 cfm double pumper Holley, I called Edelbrock and asked what manifold would work with my Tiger, and that I did not want to rev over 6K. I also told them I had a F4B manifold. To my surprise, the Edelbrock tech guy said the F4B is still a very good manifold, as was as good as what was available then, 1998, even though he could have steered me to another manifold, and made the sale. BTW, while it's nice to cut weight off of the car, the front of a Tiger is not front heavy. I measured the weight at each 4 wheels, with and without me and Joe Parlanti in the car. The Tiger happens to be very balanced. Larry MWood24020 at aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8/6/2008 4:44:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >mrlau at charter.net writes: > >I'll bet this could be argued every way that is possible. I don't think >there is very much difference and I'm pretty sure it would depend on what >other engine modifications were involved anyway. > > >I'm not sure that a F4B can support much more than a stock head, low cfm >4bbl combo, but it is period and Tiger correct, of course, and should outperform >the FoMoCo cast iron equivalent from that era :-) > >I would love to see a dyno plot of the Performer vs. F4B on that same motor, >though...my guess is that the "old school" manifold would get smoked, to say >nothing of the option of moving to the Performer RPM. > > > >**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? >Read reviews on AOL Autos. >(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) >_______________________________________________ From twotigers at verizon.net Wed Aug 6 18:22:32 2008 From: twotigers at verizon.net (Kirk Smith) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 17:22:32 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] F4B or Cast 4BL Man Message-ID: <001201c8f823$b2ad6130$2f01a8c0@smith> About 15 years ago I was looking for a manifold for my current Tiger. I liked the performance of the F4B on my previous Tiger and was talking with Edelbrock about the modern day equivalent. Their recommendation was the Performer RPM, not the Performer. After years of driving with the Performer RPM I would say it compares favorably to the F4B. Kirk B382000503 From tcprager at hotmail.com Thu Aug 7 07:51:32 2008 From: tcprager at hotmail.com (Thomas Prager) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 08:51:32 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] The Prince Message-ID: Joe Lucas  or, more accurately, the company bearing his name  engineered electrical bits for pretty much everything emanating from the UK, and the notorious unreliability of Lucas components played a key role in tanking the British car industry in the early 1980s. Make the jump for "If Lucas made guns, wars would not start," and other classics. a.. The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark." b.. Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit. c.. Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper. d.. Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp. e.. The three position Lucas switch - Dim, Flicker and Off. f.. The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics. g.. Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices Many more, along with some funny graphics, at Mez.co.uk. From marcsmall at comcast.net Thu Aug 7 07:56:44 2008 From: marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:56:44 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] The Prince In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080807135806.4777A18764A@autox.team.net> At 09:51 AM 8/7/2008, Thomas Prager wrote: >Joe Lucas or, more accurately, the company bearing his name engineered >electrical bits for pretty much everything emanating from the UK, and the >notorious unreliability of Lucas components played a key role in tanking the >British car industry in the early 1980s. Make the jump for "If Lucas made >guns, wars would not start," and other classics. > > a.. The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark." > b.. Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit. > c.. Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper. > d.. Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp. > e.. The three position Lucas switch - Dim, Flicker and Off. > f.. The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics. > g.. Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices >Many more, along with some funny graphics, at Mez.co.uk. You folks have clearly never dealt with Bosch stuff contemporary with our cars of interest. Lucas was a LOT more reliable than was Bosch. And that Italian company -- Marelli? -- was even worse. Marc msmall at aya.yale.edu Cha robh b`s fir gun ghr`s fir! From shutchin at netjets.com Thu Aug 7 07:58:55 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 09:58:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] The Prince Message-ID: And the ever appropriate..... Why do the British drink warm beer????? Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From arado7 at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 7 09:15:10 2008 From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 11:15:10 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] The Prince References: <20080807135806.4777A18764A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I echo the sentiment. Never had reliability problems with Lucas electrics in MGs, Nortons or Sunbeams. In the later Triumph cars with copper flashed terminals that rusted was a problem but not from Lucas....just cheap Triumph..Gary B9472283 ----- Original Message ----- > > You folks have clearly never dealt with Bosch > stuff contemporary with our cars of > interest. Lucas was a LOT more reliable than was > Bosch. And that Italian company -- Marelli? -- was even worse. > > Marc From rab65tiger at aol.com Thu Aug 7 11:01:31 2008 From: rab65tiger at aol.com (rab65tiger at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:01:31 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] f4b intake Message-ID: <8CAC6C6601CEA62-1798-44C@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> At Jason Fletcher's Carbureted 5.0 web site he has a list of? flow stats on a number of intakes for small block Ford, including performer, Tiger,F4B (note indicating Ford power Parts "Cobra", F4B and Shelby Cobra design all similar) and other intakes. http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/intakes/intakes.htm? From vegaslegal at aol.com Thu Aug 7 11:08:57 2008 From: vegaslegal at aol.com (vegaslegal at aol.com) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:08:57 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alternator conversion Message-ID: <8CAC6C769D21D94-1094-54FE@webmail-ne13.sysops.aol.com> I am looking at getting my generator rebuilt, and found an alternator in a hot rod catalogue that appears as an exact replica of the ca. 1966 generator (albeit expensive).? Is this just a plug in item, or does the conversion require further electrical modifications.? Also, I continuously read about the "upgrade" to an alternator.? What are the benefits of an alternator over my generator? Bob Nersesian B382000975 From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 7 11:48:55 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:48:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] F4B or Cast 4BL Man Message-ID: <002001c8f8b5$ddb33f20$6501a8c0@your03667082de> Here is a link to a comparison on different manifolds for a 302 : http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/intakes/intakes.htm Low RPM HP Ford cast iron 141.4 HP @ 2750 rpm Edelbrock low rise performer 136.1 HP @ 2750 rpm Edelbrock F4B 138.0 HP @ 2750 rpm Max HP Ford cast iron stock HP : 215.1 @ 4500 rpm Edelbrock low rise performer HP : 233.7 @ 4500 rpm Edelbrock F4B high rise HP : 231.0 @ 4750 rpm High RPM HP Edelbrock F4B 219.3 HP @ 5500 rpm Ford cast iron 197.8 HP @ 5500rpm Edelbrock performer 188.6 @ 5500rpm. Edelbrock F4B 219.3 HP @ 5500 rpm Either Edelbrock manifold will make more HP than the stock Ford manifold. Jeff From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 11:52:45 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 18:52:45 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] f4b intake In-Reply-To: <8CAC6C6601CEA62-1798-44C@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAC6C6601CEA62-1798-44C@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808071052m4e7b1ac6o12b0de52fdaea6ef@mail.gmail.com> wow, that makes the 'tiger' look pretty dire. maybe i should try and fit a Weiand 7515 in instead.... On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 6:01 PM, wrote: > At Jason Fletcher's Carbureted 5.0 web site he has a list of? flow stats on a number of intakes for small block Ford, including performer, Tiger,F4B (note indicating Ford power Parts "Cobra", F4B and Shelby Cobra design all similar) and other intakes. > > http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/intakes/intakes.htm? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From shutchin at netjets.com Thu Aug 7 11:56:13 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:56:13 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] f4b intake Message-ID: Tunnel ram w/dual quads!!!! Detail the engine compartment and drive with no hood. Big supercharger too. Air conditioning clutch for the supercharger to save on gas.... Last of the V8 interceptors... This is fun. ;) Btw. I have the F4B with the 1848 and am very happy with it. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 7 12:23:32 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:23:32 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Alternator conversion In-Reply-To: <8CAC6C769D21D94-1094-54FE@webmail-ne13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c8f8ba$b41464a0$34941840@ronpc1> Bob I don't know enough about the replica generator or it's wiring to tell if it is a plug in. If it has regulated voltage out it might be. Install instructions and a schematic should show that. A generator usually needs a rebuild or at least new brushes every 30k to 40k miles, an alternator 80k or more miles before a rebuild. I have had alternators still running strong at over 120k miles with no rebuild. Alternators, I believe, have better voltage and amperage output throughout the RPM range with better reliability. The generator, regulator system in my Tiger always gave me problems. I learned to live with those problems but I was always thinking about converting to an alternator. I read a number of the conversion tips but I never liked the way the wires got bundled up at the regulator position. One day it dawned on me that if I could take the voltage regulator and make it into a simple junction box and that would clean up the wires. I also found a one wire conversion regulator that mounts to the back of an older style Ford alternator from AMK Products and I had all the parts to make a clean conversion. I did make my own bracket for the alternator but alternative brackets can be found. My total expenditure for my conversion was just slightly more than the $75 it cost for my last generator rebuild. Much happier now with the alternator. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of vegaslegal at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:09 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Alternator conversion I am looking at getting my generator rebuilt, and found an alternator in a hot rod catalogue that appears as an exact replica of the ca. 1966 generator (albeit expensive).? Is this just a plug in item, or does the conversion require further electrical modifications.? Also, I continuously read about the "upgrade" to an alternator.? What are the benefits of an alternator over my generator? Bob Nersesian B382000975 You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1597 - Release Date: 8/7/2008 5:54 AM From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu Aug 7 13:08:23 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:08:23 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] f4b intake In-Reply-To: <8CAC6C6601CEA62-1798-44C@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAC6C6601CEA62-1798-44C@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <489B4827.6030403@SoCal.rr.com> Very interesting manifold flow comparisons. It should be noted that all the test were run on 5.0 blocks with 600 CFM carb, and an aluminum head. While "standardized" comparisons were made, the applicability to your own engine set-up may be flawed. Tiger "260" block, with stock heads, port dimensions, valves and cam lift, may not conform to these results. Comparisons were not made with the stock LAT 465 CFM Holley. The "260" valve sizes and cam lift will influence comparisons. Additionally, the actual port dimensions, vs. manifold dimensions, may strongly influence results if there is a "step" up or down on a "match". As a field test experiment, three "/identical/" stock 260 Tigers were equipped with stock 2 BBL, cast iron manifold, and LAT-1 aluminum manifolds with both Holley 465 CFM (standard) and 600 CFM carbs, and stock 2.88:1 rear axle ratios, and 165/13 tires. The results were interesting, subjective, and confirmed substantial differences. Your own results may vary due to condition, tuning, modifications. 1. For smoothness of running at idle, the 465 CFM and 600 CFM versions were as smooth as the stock, although the 600 seemed to "hunt" more. 2. At light throttle on dead-stop starts, they all seemed about equal, except for some surging in the 600 CFM. 3. On "heavy-foot", but not rubber burning, take-offs to 35 MPH, the 465 was ahead, believed due to higher flow velocities. 4. On medium speed sudden acceleration the stock and 465 were about as smooth, but the 465 was stumble free, and quicker than the 600 CFM. which "stumbled". 5. On freeway speeds, the 600 CFM seemed to have the edge (slightly) over the 465 CFM. Speeds over 70 MPH were not conducted. The 465 CFM was similar to the 2 BBL, but much quicker. The 600 CFM was good, after the sudden throttle opening "stumble". With "modified" engine breathing and/or port matching the results can vary substantially. Anyone else with similar comparisons, please chime in. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com rab65tiger at aol.com wrote: > At Jason Fletcher's Carbureted 5.0 web site he has a list of? flow stats on a number of intakes for small block Ford, including performer, Tiger,F4B (note indicating Ford power Parts "Cobra", F4B and Shelby Cobra design all similar) and other intakes. > > http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/intakes/intakes.htm? From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Thu Aug 7 15:23:40 2008 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:23:40 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Remote oil filter In-Reply-To: <489B4827.6030403@SoCal.rr.com> References: <8CAC6C6601CEA62-1798-44C@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> <489B4827.6030403@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B23EEB29@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> So here's a basic question about the Mk 1 Tiger. Where exactly should the remote oil filter be to be original? Thanks! Bill S. 2005 Lotus Elise 1968 Triumph TR-250 1968 MGC Tourer 1965 Sunbeam Tiger 1959 Austin Healey 3000 1971 Triumph TR-6 (girlfriend's car) Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows... NOTICE: This communication and its attachments have been sent to you from Powell Goldstein LLP and may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. If you are not the intended recipient appearing in the address lines of this communication, you should not rely upon it. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 7 16:27:53 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 18:27:53 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Remote oil filter In-Reply-To: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B23EEB29@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Message-ID: <000001c8f8dc$d7063160$69b21840@ronpc1> Bill The remote oil filter mounts to the drivers side engine head. Here is the parts list picture on page 13 http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/Parts_List/2-AF-EngineMoto r.pdf Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steinman, Bill Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 5:24 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Remote oil filter So here's a basic question about the Mk 1 Tiger. Where exactly should the remote oil filter be to be original? Thanks! Bill S. 2005 Lotus Elise 1968 Triumph TR-250 1968 MGC Tourer 1965 Sunbeam Tiger 1959 Austin Healey 3000 1971 Triumph TR-6 (girlfriend's car) Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows... NOTICE: This communication and its attachments have been sent to you from Powell Goldstein LLP and may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. If you are not the intended recipient appearing in the address lines of this communication, you should not rely upon it. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1597 - Release Date: 8/7/2008 5:54 AM From sralsten at ca.rr.com Thu Aug 7 16:37:20 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 18:37:20 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Removeing chrome ? Message-ID: <24676194.680251218148640200.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> I'm the guy thats Tiger shopping and loves stock. I just got an email from an owner that wants to sell. Several engine compartment pieces are chromed Fan shroud Air cleaner Struts I've also seen many a chromed gen bracket. Can this stuff be stripped of chrome and returned to original finish ? Or is it cheaper to search out replacement parts ? Thanks Steve From PhastPhill at aol.com Thu Aug 7 17:19:53 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:19:53 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Remote oil filter Message-ID: Now that Ron has replied in a very expert manner. I can reply in a flippant one. To be original it should be leaking....lol. Mine with all the lines, brackets and the oil cooler.....MKII....are in a box. And yes they continue to leak even in the box. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 17:49:27 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 00:49:27 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Removeing chrome ? In-Reply-To: <24676194.680251218148640200.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> References: <24676194.680251218148640200.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <39a841b0808071649l160ab15epafeafe49436fd468@mail.gmail.com> i'm sure you could find people willing to swap! On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 11:37 PM, wrote: > I'm the guy thats Tiger shopping and loves stock. I just got an email from an owner that wants to sell. Several engine compartment pieces are chromed > > Fan shroud > Air cleaner > Struts > > I've also seen many a chromed gen bracket. > > Can this stuff be stripped of chrome and returned to original finish ? Or is it cheaper to search out replacement parts ? > > Thanks > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 7 17:57:13 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:57:13 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Removeing chrome ? In-Reply-To: <24676194.680251218148640200.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <000101c8f8e9$51dc7550$69b21840@ronpc1> Steve Removing chrome is easy if you have a Plating Shop near by; just let them chemically strip the chrome, nickel and copper off the parts. This is really your only choice when it involves the stock air cleaner since there are printed words stamped into the top cover. The stripped and clean parts can then be painted the color of your choice. It would be very difficult to say if you could find replacement parts cheaper but you could definitely offset the cost by selling the chrome parts. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sralsten at ca.rr.com Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:37 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Removeing chrome ? I'm the guy thats Tiger shopping and loves stock. I just got an email from an owner that wants to sell. Several engine compartment pieces are chromed Fan shroud Air cleaner Struts I've also seen many a chromed gen bracket. Can this stuff be stripped of chrome and returned to original finish ? Or is it cheaper to search out replacement parts ? Thanks Steve You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1597 - Release Date: 8/7/2008 5:54 AM From Carmods at aol.com Fri Aug 8 07:37:57 2008 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:37:57 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Removeing chrome ? Message-ID: sralsten at ca.rr.com writes: Several engine compartment pieces are chromed ,fan shroud, air cleaner.Can this stuff be stripped of chrome and returned to original finish Steve, You don't need to strip all the chrome. Just lightly sand blast the chrome until it has a dull frost appearance so that paint will stick to it. John Logan **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From un-cole-a at juno.com Fri Aug 8 09:03:38 2008 From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 15:03:38 GMT Subject: [Tigers] The Prince Message-ID: <20080808.110338.1283.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> It's not warm beer, it's cellar temperature, there is a difference. I have noticed that a beer will admit more flavor when it's temperature is not ice cold. Even some American brewed beers taste better at cellar temperature, Sam Adams for one. Just my 2 cents ____________________________________________________________ Click here to lower your monthly payments. Act now and save! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oMFMy9YgsNKQyKAJ61Z6zhd146 wFd34V4ACqev4re2w2Ad8/ From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 09:07:24 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 16:07:24 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] The Prince In-Reply-To: <20080808.110338.1283.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> References: <20080808.110338.1283.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808080807j27bdfbd8sb9bf0b6ca784c765@mail.gmail.com> here here. totally depends on the beer. i'm a big british real ale driner but i love an icy cold corona in the summer too. On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 4:03 PM, un-cole-a at juno.com wrote: > It's not warm beer, it's cellar temperature, there is a difference. > I have noticed that a beer will admit more flavor when it's temperature is not > ice cold. > Even some American brewed beers taste better at cellar temperature, Sam Adams > for one. > Just my 2 cents > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here to lower your monthly payments. Act now and save! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oMFMy9YgsNKQyKAJ61Z6zhd146 > wFd34V4ACqev4re2w2Ad8/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri Aug 8 11:40:48 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:40:48 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Remote oil filter In-Reply-To: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B23EEB29@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> References: <8CAC6C6601CEA62-1798-44C@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> <489B4827.6030403@SoCal.rr.com> <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B23EEB29@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> Message-ID: <489C8520.2000107@SoCal.rr.com> Bill, According to the Factory Tiger Parts List (ENGINE (Motor) section : http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/Parts_List/2-AF-EngineMotor.pdf (Note: this is the Motor Section only PDF download). Other download options can be found at: http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_rs260/FactParts.asp It states that the ORIGINAL oil filter element (Spin-on) is C1AZ-6731-A. I am using the Ford Motorsport full flow, full size, FL1A. Available at Summmit ($3.95 + S&H), amongst many others. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ACF-FL1A&N=700+401103+115&autoview=sku This is a high quality unit, however the "original" can be obtained from the Ford Mustang sources, in various colors, for about $29 each. http://www.dallasmustang.com/page/products.php?category=6&group=31&family=185&offset=15&max=15&orderbyasc=description&orderbydesc= If ALL of the link is not shown as "hot", Copy/Paste the entire link into your browser. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Steinman, Bill wrote: > So here's a basic question about the Mk 1 Tiger. Where exactly should > the remote oil filter be to be original? > > Thanks! > > > Bill S. From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri Aug 8 11:59:05 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:59:05 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Removeing chrome ? In-Reply-To: <24676194.680251218148640200.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> References: <24676194.680251218148640200.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web05-z02> Message-ID: <489C8969.5030302@SoCal.rr.com> Steve Ralston, Sure it can. However, chrome air cleaner top, dipstick, radiator cap, and cast aluminum valve covers were available as LAT options. http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/parts_service/pp-lat2.asp Chrome steel valve covers, with engine code S/N has been reported by Brad C. Joern in: http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-body3.asp Steve "When all else seems to fail, check "/TigersUnited.com /" and use the built-in search engine" :-) ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote: > I'm the guy thats Tiger shopping and loves stock. I just got an email from an owner that wants to sell. Several engine compartment pieces are chromed > > Fan shroud > Air cleaner > Struts > > I've also seen many a chromed gen bracket. > > Can this stuff be stripped of chrome and returned to original finish ? Or is it cheaper to search out replacement parts ? > > Thanks > > Steve From kentb at qualcomm.com Sat Aug 9 00:20:50 2008 From: kentb at qualcomm.com (Baker, Kent) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:20:50 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Question on MkII References: Message-ID: Does anyone have any information on the MarkII currently at Heritage Classics in Los Angeles? http://www.heritageclassics.com/sunbeam/67tigerblk/Page.html Although the VIN matches a MkII, and the entry in the Book of Norman is consistent with the car having moved from Florida to LA in the early 90s, there are a bunch of inconsistencies with the car. (I should mention BON also lists a "q" next to the information received in '92.) Hooded headlight rings, missing emblems, no back up lights, missing wheel well chrome, etc. just raise a few questions. I imagine folks on this thread might know the car. Kent [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] From j_d_johnson at earthlink.net Sat Aug 9 01:18:19 2008 From: j_d_johnson at earthlink.net (J D Johnson) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 00:18:19 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Question on MkII In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kent, Here's the warning from Norm's site...http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/pistonheads/lloyds-of-london.htm JD At 11:20 PM 8/8/2008, Baker, Kent wrote: >Does anyone have any information on the MarkII currently at Heritage Classics >in Los Angeles? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1601 - Release Date: 8/8/2008 9:02 AM From Cushcom1 at aol.com Sat Aug 9 08:50:26 2008 From: Cushcom1 at aol.com (Cushcom1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 10:50:26 EDT Subject: [Tigers] EBAY LISTING QUERY Message-ID: Do any listers out there know anything about the "1967 Alpine Sunbeam Tiger Mark 1A" listed on E-Bay? With its extreme modifications, it is too difficult for me to identify "clues" to confirm its authenticity. Your input is appreciated. jeff the tigerman **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 9 12:20:29 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:20:29 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Question on MkII - answered Message-ID: <001401c8fa4c$a19823a0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> The correct web page: http://www.rootes1.com/index.asp select June 2008. Jeff From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 9 12:27:48 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:27:48 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Bumper guard question Message-ID: <001b01c8fa4d$a0d07160$6501a8c0@your03667082de> I have a collection of bumper guards, some with a brace welded inside and some without. In other word some are completely hollow inside and some have a flat piece of metal welded with a bolt hole drilled through that lines up with the one in the guard. For a B947xxxx Tiger what should it have? Jeff From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 9 13:22:04 2008 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:22:04 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] EBAY LISTING QUERY In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Jeff, here is a note I sent to the lister of the Mk1 and the response I got............. > Hi, > thanks for your reply. > I like the look of the car but as you may know there are a number of >converted Alpines which are not recognised by the clubs in CA as >original Tigers. > they run a programme to validate the authenticity of a car called the TAC >programme. I have just bought another tiger and gone through this and it >does not exclude cars that have been modified so long at the car is a >factory built tiger. > If I win the car, would you be prepared to have the car inspected. the >chassis number is a correct tiger tag. > The inspection is free and would be done by senior club members. > would that be OK ? > If I win the car I will arrange shipping via SD. > Many thanks > Jeff RESPONSE I am fine with doing that. but shouldn't that be done before you bid on the car? please give me a call dustin Doesnt seem to be trying to hide much. If you read the description, you will see that the restoration was done by a general custom shop in San diego - does anyone know of it ? regards Jeff In message , Cushcom1 at aol.com writes >Do any listers out there know anything about the "1967 Alpine Sunbeam Tiger >Mark 1A" listed on E-Bay? With its extreme modifications, it is too difficult >for me to identify "clues" to confirm its authenticity. Your input is >appreciated. >jeff the tigerman > > > > >**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? >Read reviews on AOL Autos. >(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut0005000 >0000017 ) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive > -- Jeff Howarth From CoolVT at aol.com Sun Aug 10 17:02:09 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:02:09 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Report and thank you Message-ID: It seems I have asked a lot of list questions over the past few months for the "update" I have been doing. I thought it was time to give thanks to all list members who have answered my questions and to 4 members in particular who have been ever so helpful in sharing their knowledge....Tom Hall in engine and tranny help and in supplying the conversion material to convert to a 5 speed. Tim Ronak for helpful information on details of the engine building identifying the timing cover, etc.. Theo Smith for help on the many electrical questions regarding converting to an alternator and Buck Tripple for much help the front suspension. So, I have ended up with a 331 ci and a 5 speed. The engine dynoed at 370hp, cruises at 1800 rpm at 70 mph and is getting about 25 mpg at 70mph. So, I am very satisfied in that department. I really have to be above 60 to use 5th gear. It won't drive well in 4th gear at 10 mph in the city like the old 260 would do. I'm not sure if some adjusting will help that or if I'll have to live with that part and actually shift. It does pretty much fly. I have been trying to get the first 500 miles in and just take it easy. However, there is one loud Civic (with one of those fruit juice can mufflers) that now knows what a Tiger is. And never had to get above 3500 rpm's;-) Thank you one and all for your help. And, see my next post for today's adventure. Mark L. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From CoolVT at aol.com Sun Aug 10 17:21:41 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:21:41 EDT Subject: [Tigers] today on the new engine Message-ID: I was out today trying to get some miles on the new engine. I have probably done about 250. I was on a country road today and missed a turn. So, I pulled into a driveway, began backing out and the whole car got surrounded in smoke. I was in the middle of the road near a curve and knew I had to at least get off the road. I pulled ahead in a cloud of smoke, glanced down at the oil pressure gauge and it was at zero. You can imagine what was going through my head. I pulled ahead 50 feet, shut the engine off and coasted down a hill to a parking area in front of a restaurant. Upon lifting the hood I discovered everything covered in oil. There was no sense in checking the dipstick because with oil all around and on the ground I knew I had lost plenty and also knew whatever it was I couldn't fix it there. I called AAA for a flatbed and they got me the 35 miles home. I got thinking that the engine had been running great with no strange noises so it couldn't have blown a hole anywhere. I had the car on the lift yesterday so I knew that nothing was leaking. There are just very few external places where this engine can leak. Maybe the oil pan seeping or something, but not a real leak like this. I narrowed it down in my head to 3 possibilities...a loose or leaking oil filter, a leaking oil pressure sending line or a loose or lost drain plug. When I got home the first thing I did was reach down for the oil sending line...it was dangling! It had popped off the fitting at the engine end. So, lesson learned. I had this new plastic line that I had purchased last year from one of the suppliers..either CAT or SS..can't remember which. Someone had written in recently saying that we should never use the plastic one since a flexible stainless model is available. Well, I figured I had the plastic one and the original one had lasted 40+ years so........... Of course with paying for the tow I could have bought a few new metal lines. I guess the advice is...even if you have a new plastic one...throw it and get a metal version. The good news is I doubt that any harm was done to the new engine. After the car set for a while I checked the oil level and it was only down about 1/2 quart. I can tell you that when a 1/2 quart is blown all over the engine and dripping on the ground that it looks like about 10 quarts. At least my mind was eased in knowing that the engine had not been running without oil. Sure hope that you all had a less eventful day;-) Mark L. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From wsamouce at kc.rr.com Sun Aug 10 17:00:58 2008 From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:00:58 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Speedo Rebuild In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c8fb3c$f3ef3990$dbcdacb0$@rr.com> Hello all, My speedo is down for the count. I recently took it apart to clean it and discovered that the spring that is attached to the "drag wheel" has been eaten. I received a quote from SPEEDOMETER PLUS in LA for $225 to fix it and recalibrate it for my 3.07 rear diff. Does anyone have a recommended speedo rebuilder and is $225 in line for the repairs and recal.? Thanks, Duke From drmayf at mayfco.com Sun Aug 10 20:24:38 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 19:24:38 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Bonneville Salt Flats Bound... Message-ID: <489FA2E6.8070105@mayfco.com> Well, it is time for me to fill everybody in on where the Sunbeam is and where it is going. There were many modifications to the car this off season. I added a third rool cage hoop, added tthe lateral head support (now required), dropped th e driver seat dowm 1 3/8 inches, sent my parachute to the manufacturer for an inspection and repair as necessary, ditto the drivers suit jacket (the sleeve some how got burned and had actually been on fire says the manufacturer), fabricated new headers (whew! what a task), changed from twin turbos to one T72, had the headers coated by Caps Bright Hot Coatings (great folk!), remade the rear diagonal link locator for the 4 bar suspension, modified the throttl ebody hat, modified the throttle body spacer to the manifold, purchase two new ear wheels from Diamond Racing Wheels and had the bonneville tires mounted and balanced. Also made a new remote oil filter system using fram HP1 racing oil filter and -10 AN hose and fittings. Added a new water/methanol injection system. Added recording capability for oil pressure, fuel pressure, exhaust back pressure at the turbo to go along with recording the Manifold pressure, which I already had. Rewired the 0 - 300 mph speedo and will calibrate that when I tow to inspection area. I did not go to the chassis dyno this year because it is over in Las Vegas and for the past two years I didn't ge much out of it. About a month ago or maybe a bit more, I fired it all up and for something that had been sitting for quite a while, It started an dran fine. When I buzzed it a bit, 2000 rpm, i tgot enough smoke and fresh oil out the turbo hot side that I decided it was fubared and replaced it with a borrowed T70. Then during a check of the waste gates, I found that one of the internal diaphrams had a hole in it letting the boost presure go from the bottom to th etop and that effectively held both waste gates fully closed. No wonder it wouldn't rev, the exhaust had no place to go except through those very dinky T3 turbine housings (0.63) which equates to a exhaust pipe of about 0.9 inches in diameter. All hat is behind me for now. It's show time! For any of you that may want to wander out to Wendover, UT, we'll be located in the big red 34 ft box trailer with teh spirit of sunbeam logo on the front and sides and my tow truck has "mayf" on the tailgate. The August Speed Week is for sure a specacle and all you motor and gear heads should make that pilgrimage at least once. Right now there are more than 500 vehicles scheduled to run. Inspection starts on Sunday, course opens on Mondy after the mandatory driver's meeting which shul dbe around 10:30 am (Wendover, UT time). we generally do not ry and be the first on the course becaus eI like to watch a couple of cars to see how they are doing on the salt.. We will be at the Wendover Nugget.. we wil lbe monioring or drmayf at yahoo.com email during th etime we are gone. ya'll come on down! mayf From srwick at hotmail.com Sun Aug 10 21:29:15 2008 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:29:15 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Speedo Rebuild References: <000001c8fb3c$f3ef3990$dbcdacb0$@rr.com> Message-ID: Out of curiosity, why wouldn't they "calibrate" it by changing the gear on the end of the cable? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Duke Samouce To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: [Tigers] Speedo Rebuild Hello all, My speedo is down for the count. I recently took it apart to clean it and discovered that the spring that is attached to the "drag wheel" has been eaten. I received a quote from SPEEDOMETER PLUS in LA for $225 to fix it and recalibrate it for my 3.07 rear diff. Does anyone have a recommended speedo rebuilder and is $225 in line for the repairs and recal.? Thanks, Duke From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 11 08:16:09 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:16:09 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Brake Pressure Multiplier Message-ID: Curious...would this have any useful application on a Tiger running without a booster? M _http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html_ (http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_pressure_multiplier.html) **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Mon Aug 11 08:26:08 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:26:08 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Brake Pressure Multiplier Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F1DD@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> It says "a slight increase in pedal travel is required for operation". All that this thing does is to use a step-down piston to give increased pressure at a reduced volume. You would get the same effect from starting with a smaller sized master cylinder bore. However, if you want to run the stock master cylinder in a Tiger (and you know you're not close to bottoming the master cylinder piston in the bore, or running out of pedal travel) then this might be a good device to play with. Theo From mark.rense at ge.com Mon Aug 11 08:58:40 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:58:40 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Correct Badge Motif Message-ID: Hi all, I am in the process of installing the side and boot motif badges that were missing from the car and I may have the wrong ones. This would be for a mid-series MK IA, B382001465. Should they be the "260" badges or the "V-8" badges? When did they change? Thanks, Bugz From shutchin at netjets.com Mon Aug 11 09:04:47 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:04:47 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Correct Badge Motif Message-ID: I think the correct answer would be "nobody knows for sure when the exact changeover occured." This could be interesting. Let's have a poll. B382000829. Sunbeam 260 badge with Chrysler Pentastar. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 11 09:17:07 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:17:07 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Correct Badge Motif Message-ID: #1369 with Pentastar **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 11 09:20:29 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:20:29 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Correct Badge Motif Message-ID: Also on #1369....V8 badge **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From rfraser at bluefrog.com Mon Aug 11 10:14:57 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:14:57 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Correct Badge Motif In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c8fbcd$6872a370$86b11840@ronpc1> Bugz The only really good reference about this is in TBON. B9470001 - B9473100 Powered by Ford 260 European emblem Alpine 260 B9473101 - B9473767 and B9480001 - B9480073 Sunbeam 260 B382000001 - B382000900 Not specified; I will assume Sunbeam 260 B382000901 - B382002706 Sunbeam V8 plus a Chrysler Pentastar B382100001 - B382100633 Not specified; I assume Sunbeam V8 and a Pentastar Norm Miller is the expert when it come to these types of questions. My Tiger B382000009 has 2 Powered by Ford 260 and 1 Sunbeam V8. I don't recall if those are the emblems that came on the car or if I purchased them during the restoration period. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 10:59 AM To: Tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Correct Badge Motif Hi all, I am in the process of installing the side and boot motif badges that were missing from the car and I may have the wrong ones. This would be for a mid-series MK IA, B382001465. Should they be the "260" badges or the "V-8" badges? When did they change? Thanks, Bugz You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1603 - Release Date: 8/10/2008 6:13 PM From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Mon Aug 11 10:31:18 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:31:18 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Correct Badge Motif Message-ID: Pentastar V8 fenders and boot B382002560 **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Mon Aug 11 10:35:55 2008 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:35:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] badges Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF0A339AB1@norn32.d30.intra> B382000680 has 260 emblems Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc. 23961 Via El Rocio Mission Viejo, CA 92691 PH: 949-305-5393 Cell: 949-289-3357 FX: 425-955-6268 Email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal Email: timronak at cox.net If you received this message in error please inform the sender and delete the message. From sralsten at ca.rr.com Mon Aug 11 12:01:01 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:01:01 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Specialties ??? Message-ID: <31068252.2324381218477661714.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02> I've been trying to access the website for 3 days but not getting it. Anyone have the phone number ? I hope there not gone ? Steve From Rollright at aol.com Mon Aug 11 12:02:12 2008 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:02:12 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Salt Flats Message-ID: Well................. Looks like you'll be one the flats this year. From what you said before, I didn't think that this year you'd make it . BUT.............. Time to go fast and get the record. You can do it this time and we are with you in spirit. All hail Mayf and his quest. Best regards, Jim Armstrong **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 11 12:10:42 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:10:42 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Specialties ??? Message-ID: I couldn't get in either. 408-371-1642 **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From vegaslegal at aol.com Mon Aug 11 13:37:12 2008 From: vegaslegal at aol.com (vegaslegal at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:37:12 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Badge survey Message-ID: <8CACA00C9258AF5-132C-B6@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> B382000975 Acquired as an unmodified original needing freshening: Sunbeam V-8? Fenders and boot. Pentastar Badge. S U N B E A M on trunk only. I talked to Norm when I first got the car.? He seemed surprised at both the V8 and the pentastar. Bob Nersesian From drmayf at mayfco.com Mon Aug 11 14:02:47 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:02:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Salt Flats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A09AE7.3000007@mayfco.com> It was a challenge! I had a lot of stuff to do and I am getting way too old to work in the heat, lol. I will go as fast as the car or my heart will let me. One or th eother may give out lol.. mayf Rollright at aol.com wrote: > Well................. > > > Looks like you'll be one the flats this year. From what you said > before, I didn't think that this year you'd make it . > > BUT.............. > > Time to go fast and get the record. You can do it this time and we are > with you in spirit. > > All hail Mayf and his quest. > > Best regards, > > > > Jim Armstrong > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read > reviews on AOL Autos > . From sganz at pacbell.net Mon Aug 11 14:02:54 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fun video Message-ID: <285058.85527.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Normally don't find videos that are really that fun to watch, but something fun about watching these little cars go over and over, made my Monday watching it a couple of times ;-) http://www.motorator.com/videos/372 Sandy From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 11 14:20:57 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:20:57 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Fun video Message-ID: _http://www.motorator.com/videos/372_ (http://www.motorator.com/videos/372) LOL, it's like some of them don't realize that when a curve comes up you are supposed to turn:-) If you are going to view this race you had better choose some pretty high ground. M **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Mon Aug 11 14:32:56 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:32:56 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Specialties Website Message-ID: SS's phone number is 1-408-371-1642. Just talked with them and they were not aware the site was down. Rick is contacting the man that maintains the site for them. Moonstone ************** Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From mark.rense at ge.com Mon Aug 11 14:44:34 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:44:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Specialties ??? In-Reply-To: <31068252.2324381218477661714.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02> References: <31068252.2324381218477661714.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02> Message-ID: I've been on the site three times today and over the weekend, it's worked fine. Maybe your computer's gudgeon pins need to be recalibrated.... :>) -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sralsten at ca.rr.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:01 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Specialties ??? I've been trying to access the website for 3 days but not getting it. Anyone have the phone number ? I hope there not gone ? Steve From sganz at pacbell.net Mon Aug 11 22:37:41 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Dashboard Message-ID: <824217.35878.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does anyone know about this Dashboard. I got it off of ebay a month or so ago, but wondered were it came out of and if anyone has a picture of it populated with gauges and switches. http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/TigerOilPan.html Picture in the middle of the page http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/TigerOilPan.html A new picture of a car my friend just bought from Bob Sharp Racing, but notice the what might be a Tiger in background (It may be an Alpine??) Sandy From v8tracker at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 00:06:10 2008 From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 01:06:10 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Dashboard In-Reply-To: <824217.35878.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <824217.35878.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87C913FAD7B74E3FBD855B01AEA9646C@DellD4700> Sandy, It must be a Tiger. An Alpine would have had the hood scoop off to the side. Great picture of the cars, but I missed the picture of the dashboard, A.C. Tynes New Orleans > -----Original Message----- > > Does anyone know about this Dashboard. I got it off of ebay a month or so > ago, but wondered were it came out of and if anyone has a picture of it > populated. A new picture of a car my friend just bought from Bob Sharp >Racing, but notice the what might be a Tiger in background (It may be an >Alpine??) > Sandy From milano164 at comcast.net Tue Aug 12 02:56:33 2008 From: milano164 at comcast.net (Steven silverstein) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:56:33 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Don Sesslar's Tiger at the SCCA Runoffs - YouTube Message-ID: <90F8AF26-2CA2-4BF9-B376-14966593CAA4@comcast.net> Hey, this is unusual.... this Home movie, labeled 1964 Daytona runoffs (incorrectly labeled) Has some decent images of the Sports Car Forum Tiger (around the 1:30 mark and around the 5:40 mark) http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AsL_W7I5OlA Very unusual to see actual films of the Runoffs like this. Steve Silverstein From cmccann at lwpb.com Tue Aug 12 07:11:54 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:11:54 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Dashboard In-Reply-To: <87C913FAD7B74E3FBD855B01AEA9646C@DellD4700> References: <824217.35878.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <87C913FAD7B74E3FBD855B01AEA9646C@DellD4700> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337E597686@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> I think Sandy meant to send the link to the main Tiger page. The dashboard is down at the bottom. Good looking piece....i don't remember it on the Bay... http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/Tiger.html Sandy, It must be a Tiger. An Alpine would have had the hood scoop off to the side. Great picture of the cars, but I missed the picture of the dashboard, A.C. Tynes From tym2 at comcast.net Tue Aug 12 08:58:06 2008 From: tym2 at comcast.net (tym2 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:58:06 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner Message-ID: <081220081458.4035.48A1A4FE000381EA00000FC32216538496CD03979B@comcast.net> Tigers, Does anyone have the model # for a K&N filter that will fit a Tiger air cleaner? Thanks in advance. Tym McDowell From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 09:00:00 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:00:00 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner In-Reply-To: <081220081458.4035.48A1A4FE000381EA00000FC32216538496CD03979B@comcast.net> References: <081220081458.4035.48A1A4FE000381EA00000FC32216538496CD03979B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <39a841b0808120800m77547e58i2ab0f556b4684789@mail.gmail.com> not sure but victoria british sell it. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:58 PM, wrote: > Tigers, > > Does anyone have the model # for a K&N filter that will fit a Tiger air cleaner? > > Thanks in advance. > > Tym McDowell > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From KJENSSEN at aol.com Tue Aug 12 09:18:30 2008 From: KJENSSEN at aol.com (KJENSSEN at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:18:30 EDT Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner Message-ID: I recently was researching and found the following information. I have not purchased a K&N filter yet, I still have a paper filter. Hopefully other Tiger owners may be able to confirm the info. K&N E-3717 11.75" x 13.5" x 2.5" +/- $ 47.00 _http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-3717_ (http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-3717) K&N E-2859 11.75" x 13.5" x 1.5" +/- $ 46.00 _http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-2859_ (http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-2859) I currently have a paper filter ( WIX 42100 ) +/- $ 12.00 _http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=42100_ (http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=42100) I believe NAPA makes them - NAPA part 2100 +/- $ 12.00 _http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(10ni25zljzifwc3x1cqrwg45))/Detail.aspx?R =FIL2100_0071369629_ (http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(10ni25zljzifwc3x1cqrwg45))/Detail.aspx?R=FIL2100_0071369629) Kirt Jenssen **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 12 09:35:10 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:35:10 EDT Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner Message-ID: I was going to get a K&N until I read a test article that Hot Rod Magazine did. With an engine on the dyno (sorry, can't remember which engine) they swapped different air filters and found no HPdifference with the K&N than from a cheap paper unit. So, I decided to go with a paper unit. Filtering ability...I guess the jury is still out on that one. M **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From KJENSSEN at aol.com Tue Aug 12 09:45:31 2008 From: KJENSSEN at aol.com (KJENSSEN at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:45:31 EDT Subject: [Tigers] more info at TIGERSUNITED.COM K&N air filter Message-ID: TIM RONAK posted info on the TIGERSUNITED.com web site. go to the air filters elements assemblies section _http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-fuelsys.asp#Air%20Filter s%20and%20Assemblies_ (http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-fuelsys.asp#Air%20Filters%20and%20Assemblies) **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From achd73 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 12 09:50:23 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <790661.23996.qm@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I saved the box and will post the part number later today. I bought mine at an Auto Zone but they had to order one, as it wasnt an item they keep on the shelf. As far as the test Mark mentioned- it may well be true the filters they compared ran the same numbers but I could feel the increase in power after installing the K&N. Not to mention its the last filter you should ever have to purchase. I dont remember the brand name of the filter I removed but it was in almost new condition. I do know it wasnt a stock AC filter. TonytheTiger From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 12 09:52:29 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:52:29 EDT Subject: [Tigers] more info at TIGERSUNITED.COM K&N air filter Message-ID: Go figure. They found the opposite of what the Hot Rod test showed. So, maybe there is something to the K&N. I stand corrected. mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From RussE at Firstva.com Tue Aug 12 09:54:59 2008 From: RussE at Firstva.com (Russ Eshelman) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:54:59 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner References: Message-ID: <00df01c8fc93$cb10ff60$b58b67d0@youro0kwkw9jwc> I'm running the K&N # 2859 on both of my cars with stock housing. Russ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner >I recently was researching and found the following information. I have not > purchased a K&N filter yet, I still have a paper filter. Hopefully other > Tiger owners may be able to confirm the info. > > K&N E-3717 11.75" x 13.5" x 2.5" +/- $ 47.00 > _http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-3717_ > (http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-3717) > > K&N E-2859 11.75" x 13.5" x 1.5" +/- $ 46.00 > _http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-2859_ > (http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=E-2859) > > I currently have a paper filter ( WIX 42100 ) +/- $ 12.00 > _http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=42100_ > (http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=42100) > > I believe NAPA makes them - NAPA part 2100 +/- $ 12.00 > _http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(10ni25zljzifwc3x1cqrwg45))/Detail.aspx? R > =FIL2100_0071369629_ > (http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(10ni25zljzifwc3x1cqrwg45))/Detail.aspx? R=FIL2100_0071369629) > > Kirt Jenssen > > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut000500000000 17 ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as russe at firstva.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.0/1604 - Release Date: 8/11/2008 5:50 AM From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Tue Aug 12 10:43:18 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:43:18 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner In-Reply-To: <081220081458.4035.48A1A4FE000381EA00000FC32216538496CD03979B@comcast.net> References: <081220081458.4035.48A1A4FE000381EA00000FC32216538496CD03979B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003001c8fc9a$861fe720$6f6cc44a@jerry> I've been using the E-2859 K&N filter since I installed it on 9-18-86. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of tym2 at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:58 AM To: Tiger's List Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner Tigers, Does anyone have the model # for a K&N filter that will fit a Tiger air cleaner? Thanks in advance. Tym McDowell You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Tue Aug 12 11:02:06 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Aluminum Dashboard Message-ID: <85316.91979.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yep, it was late last night, thanks for the update link. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Cullen McCann To: A. C. Tynes ; "tigers at autox.team.net" Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:11:54 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Aluminum Dashboard I think Sandy meant to send the link to the main Tiger page. The dashboard is down at the bottom. Good looking piece....i don't remember it on the Bay... http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/Tiger.html Sandy, It must be a Tiger. An Alpine would have had the hood scoop off to the side. Great picture of the cars, but I missed the picture of the dashboard, A.C. Tynes _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue Aug 12 11:58:53 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:58:53 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fun video In-Reply-To: <285058.85527.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <285058.85527.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48A1CF5D.1050403@SoCal.rr.com> Sandy & Tigers, Wow, were they lucky not to have been really hurt badly. At least they had some fields, and trees, keeping them not too far from the road. It's a LOOOONG way down if this were in the mountainous portions of the Italian or Swiss Alps. On the other hand, the spectators seem to pick the dangerous places to observe. When I was young and foolish, we had "races" over the mountainous roads between Hollywood and Mulholland in our new MG-TD's. I went off the outside of a turn into dirt, and luckily stopped just before the edge. Then another car lost it and stopped just before my rear bumper, or I wouldn't be here to day. ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Sandy Ganz wrote: > Normally don't find videos that are really that fun to watch, but something > fun about watching these little cars go over and over, made my Monday watching > it a couple of times ;-) > > http://www.motorator.com/videos/372 > Sandy From arado7 at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 12 13:26:39 2008 From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:26:39 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] more info at TIGERSUNITED.COM K&N air filter References: Message-ID: <2638BB693CE64773BB66561E5F069DC9@GMI> I believe anytime an air filter moves more air to increase power it is doing less of a job removing dirt......I use paper filters..still considered the best of all lowtech filters..Gary B9472283 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] more info at TIGERSUNITED.COM K&N air filter > Go figure. They found the opposite of what the Hot Rod test showed. So, > maybe there is something to the K&N. I stand corrected. > mark > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 > ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as arado7 at sbcglobal.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 12 14:03:08 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:03:08 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Sticking brakes Message-ID: I noticed today that my driver side rear brake was sticking so bad that when the car was jacked up I couldn't turn the wheel. The passenger side rear and both fronts turned freely. I figured the hand brake was hanging up. I turned the adjuster all the way out and disconnected the hand brake at the wheel and pushed the lever on the brake all the way in. The wheel still wouldn't turn. I opened the bleeder and drained about 1/2 ounce and then could just turn the wheel a little, but still really hung up. I took the wheel and drum off, moved everything around and nothing seemed to be binding. When I took the shoes off I squeezed the cylinder plunger rod in about 1/2" with pliers. Cleaned the adjuster and put anit-sieze on it and put it back together and it turns as it should. Since the passenger side rear is okay I know it can't be a swollen rubber hose. I doubt it's contamination in the line. I changed the fluid a few weeks back and it was clean and everything bled the way that it should. So the question is can the brake cylinder itself hang up internally? Will it hang up again the next time I apply the brakes? Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From laurin212 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 12 14:05:59 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Sticking brakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <437426.984.qm@web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> i had my rear brake freeze up from non-use, a little hammer tapping on the drum freed it and it worked fine thereafter Peter Laurinaitis peter.laurinaitis.wg02 at wharton.upenn.edu --- On Tue, 8/12/08, CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > From: CoolVT at aol.com > Subject: [Tigers] Sticking brakes > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 4:03 PM > I noticed today that my driver side rear brake was sticking > so bad that when > the car was jacked up I couldn't turn the wheel. The > passenger side rear > and both fronts turned freely. > I figured the hand brake was hanging up. I turned the > adjuster all the way > out and disconnected the hand brake at the wheel and pushed > the lever on the > brake all the way in. The wheel still wouldn't turn. > I opened the bleeder and drained about 1/2 ounce and then > could just turn > the wheel a little, but still really hung up. I took the > wheel and drum off, > moved everything around and nothing seemed to be binding. > When I took the > shoes off I squeezed the cylinder plunger rod in about > 1/2" with pliers. Cleaned > the adjuster and put anit-sieze on it and put it back > together and it turns > as it should. > Since the passenger side rear is okay I know it can't > be a swollen rubber > hose. I doubt it's contamination in the line. I > changed the fluid a few weeks > back and it was clean and everything bled the way that it > should. > So the question is can the brake cylinder itself hang up > internally? Will > it hang up again the next time I apply the brakes? > Mark From rfraser at bluefrog.com Tue Aug 12 14:45:03 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:45:03 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sticking brakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c8fcbc$4df2d430$5bb11840@ronpc1> Mark So the question is can the brake cylinder itself hang up internally? Will it hang up again the next time I apply the brakes? Can it hang up internally; yes it can; with the wheel and drum off push the brake pedal some then release and watch the action of that cylinder. This will show if anything is hanging up for any reason. Check that the cylinder moves in and out properly and that the shoes retract; grease the pads that the shoes ride on if needed. If the cylinder looks like it is hanging up you will have to remove it and check the condition of the rubber cup seal on the piston and the condition of the cylinder wall which should look like a mirror finish. Remember that the rear brake cylinders are a slide fit on the back plate to help center the shoes and to move when the hand brake is applied. Make sure the cylinder can slide. Put everything back together and with just the brake drum on; try the brake pedal and the hand brake to see if it works properly. Good Luck Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 4:03 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Sticking brakes I noticed today that my driver side rear brake was sticking so bad that when the car was jacked up I couldn't turn the wheel. The passenger side rear and both fronts turned freely. I figured the hand brake was hanging up. I turned the adjuster all the way out and disconnected the hand brake at the wheel and pushed the lever on the brake all the way in. The wheel still wouldn't turn. I opened the bleeder and drained about 1/2 ounce and then could just turn the wheel a little, but still really hung up. I took the wheel and drum off, moved everything around and nothing seemed to be binding. When I took the shoes off I squeezed the cylinder plunger rod in about 1/2" with pliers. Cleaned the adjuster and put anit-sieze on it and put it back together and it turns as it should. Since the passenger side rear is okay I know it can't be a swollen rubber hose. I doubt it's contamination in the line. I changed the fluid a few weeks back and it was clean and everything bled the way that it should. So the question is can the brake cylinder itself hang up internally? Will it hang up again the next time I apply the brakes? Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000 017 ) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.1/1608 - Release Date: 8/12/2008 4:59 PM From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue Aug 12 15:25:14 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:25:14 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Sticking brakes Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F1E9@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> If you do this, remember that the master cylinder can pump more volume than what's required to spit the wheel cylinder piston right out of its bore. So when Ron says "push the brake pedal some" he means "just a little". Ideally you'd do this test after first restricting the movement of the shoes with a really large hose clamp or something... If you get a helper, make sure they understand not to floor the pedal. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser Sent: August 12, 2008 2:45 PM To: CoolVT at aol.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Sticking brakes Mark Can it hang up internally; yes it can; with the wheel and drum off push the brake pedal some then release and watch the action of that cylinder. This will show if anything is hanging up for any reason. Check that the cylinder moves in and out properly and that the shoes retract; grease the pads that the shoes ride on if needed. From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 12 15:29:19 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:29:19 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Sticking brakes Message-ID: Okay good advice. I'm wondering now if the brakes might have somehow got jammed up on the car's ride on a flatbed yesterday. I had the hand brake on and even thought the car was tied down it definitely did a little moving and put a strain on the brakes. The thing is before I took everything apart I couldn't move the brake adjuster in either direction. After removing the drum and shoes the adjuster moved just fine. M **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From RSSmithIQ at cs.com Tue Aug 12 16:17:34 2008 From: RSSmithIQ at cs.com (Randy Smith) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:17:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Holley Question In-Reply-To: <486E8D93.1010504@cs.com> References: <486E8D93.1010504@cs.com> Message-ID: <48A20BFE.3060506@cs.com> About a month ago I posted the following question: /"Ok, so I'm too lazy to do the research on my own, but everyone is so helpful, you make it too easy to ask...... I just installed an F4B and new Holley 0-1848-1 (465 cfm). The car idles very well and runs at all RPM's pretty strong. The only issue is when you hit the gas quickly. Then it stumbles. If you tickle it a bit, it picks right up and goes quickly and strongly up through the RPM's to redline. Sounds like an accelerator pump adjustment of some sort????? Timing and advance appears to be right on. Checked for vacuum leaks too, and everything looks OK. Any suggestions on tweaking the carb?" / Just to follow-up, the car now runs super-good. I took it over to my local drag-racer mechanic who has lots of experience with Holley's. He told me to go buy a Holley spring kit for the secondaries and a ramp kit for the accelerator pump, because we would likely need to try some different combinations. As it turns out, it was even simpler than that. The first thing he checked was the float level in both bowls. Remember that this was a NEW Holley 1848, right out of the box. The front level was low. The rear level was beyond low. We readjusted both to the correct factory spec. Then he checked the actuator rod for the accelerator pump. It was adjusted much too long to the point that it was only giving a partial stroke during each pump. He adjusted it shorter to give a full stroke. DONE. That was it. No need for any additional parts. It idles, runs and accelerates fantastic now. Another lesson learned. Double-check the factory settings too! Hope that might be helpful to someone else out there. -Randy -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ at cs.com Tiger- B382000189 From v8sunbeamtiger at hotmail.com Tue Aug 12 16:23:24 2008 From: v8sunbeamtiger at hotmail.com (Joey Hiykel) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:23:24 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Brake Lights intermitant Message-ID: its been a while since Ive replied or posted. But i took the tiger out for a nice cruise the other day and someone stopped me and said the brake lights dont work. Well i went home and checked them out. now i cant check them my self mving, but i checked them stopped. And then come on sometimes, sometimes they flicker. most of the time they dont come on at all. Now i did this both with engine idleing and revved up a little for the generator to throw some charge. Now is there a switch inline with the brake line or is there a switch on the back of the brake pedal? I only had a couple minutes to look at it, but it looked like there is some sort of inline switch in the brake lines right down by the generator. anyone have this problem before?? thanks. Joey _________________________________________________________________ Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WLY IA_whichathlete_us From PhastPhill at aol.com Tue Aug 12 16:27:13 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:27:13 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Brake Lights intermitant Message-ID: That is where the inline pressure switch is. Of course check all your grounds as well. From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 17:03:15 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:03:15 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Don Sesslar's Tiger at the SCCA Runoffs - YouTube In-Reply-To: <90F8AF26-2CA2-4BF9-B376-14966593CAA4@comcast.net> References: <90F8AF26-2CA2-4BF9-B376-14966593CAA4@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 12/08/2008, Steven silverstein wrote: > Hey, this is unusual.... this Home movie, labeled 1964 Daytona > runoffs (incorrectly labeled) > Has some decent images of the Sports Car Forum Tiger (around the > 1:30 mark and around the 5:40 mark) > > http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AsL_W7I5OlA The video also shows the HSC car.. and looks to have had a hit on the drivers side. You see it leaving the grid at 5:12 (seems to be wearing number 7) and then see it drive past before the SCF tiger goes off at 5:30 then you get a ncei nice close-up drive by at 5:40! if only there was sound. -- Regards Michael King From stubrennan at comcast.net Tue Aug 12 17:16:46 2008 From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:16:46 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] New England TE/AE Gathering This Saturday - Reminder Message-ID: <000501c8fcd1$7e3dc180$6601a8c0@Brennan> Join TE/AE for our mid summer gathering at the Collings Foundation in Stow, MA. Race of the Century Saturday, August 16th Stow, MA Hours: 8:30 AM to 4:30 PM An extraordinary event that pits some of the greatest technological advancements in air and ground transportation against each other in a series of "races" Exhibits and displays throughout the event. Races start around 1:00 PM Entire Facility Open Daily: 8:30 AM to 4:30 PM Gate Fee: $15 Adults / $10 Children What are the races? How about a horse and carriage vs. a 1905 Franklin or a Stanley Steamer? A Stutz Bearcat vs. 1909 BLERIOT? A 1937 Offy sprint car vs. a Stearman? Want more info and directions? All the answers are on the Foundation's web site at: http://www.collingsfoundation.org/cf_RofC2008.htm In addition, I have some photos from my visit to their open house last spring (no races) at: http://www.pbase.com/sb_photos/bobstoys I have checked with the Foundation staff, and if we get there early enough we would probably be able to park together. So plan on being there by 10:00. Bring a picnic lunch or buy food on site. There's plenty to see, since there is quite a collection of antique aircraft and cars. Rides in the aircraft are available for a substantial fee, but there is advanced booking. Check the web site for details if you are interested. Note: The races are on both Saturday and Sunday. We are going on Saturday, saving Sunday for a rain date. Please RSVP so I have some idea how many are coming. Stu Brennan stubrennan at comcast.net From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue Aug 12 17:22:04 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:22:04 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Brake Lights intermitant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A21B1C.7000802@SoCal.rr.com> Joey, I'd check the lamp bulbs and socket bases for corrosion, which could cause anything from "intermittent" to "out". A little fine steel wool ought to clean them up. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Joey Hiykel wrote: > its been a while since Ive replied or posted. > > But i took the tiger out for a nice cruise the other day and someone stopped > me and said the brake lights dont work. Well i went home and checked them out. > now i cant check them my self mving, but i checked them stopped. And then come > on sometimes, sometimes they flicker. most of the time they dont come on at > all. Now i did this both with engine idleing and revved up a little for the > generator to throw some charge. From DJoh797014 at aol.com Tue Aug 12 17:53:23 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:53:23 EDT Subject: [Tigers] K&N air cleaner Message-ID: My box says CLE-2859. Its round so bend to shape. Got it at Pep Boys. In a message dated 8/12/2008 9:58:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, tym2 at comcast.net writes: Tigers, Does anyone have the model # for a K&N filter that will fit a Tiger air cleaner? Thanks in advance. Tym McDowell You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net Tue Aug 12 18:00:43 2008 From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:00:43 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Don Sesslar's Tiger at the SCCA Runoffs - YouTube References: <90F8AF26-2CA2-4BF9-B376-14966593CAA4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001701c8fcd7$a1b08ed0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> I had given up hope of ever seeing videos of either of the those factory supported Tigers, much less both of them in the same race. Steve, great job finding this for us! What's confusing about this video is that the last minute of it shows the first minute of the race. The next part of the race is seen in the first part of the Video. The run group is combined Ap and Bp. It looks like a standing start and Jim Adams, driving the HSC Tiger, passes the camera (located about 300 yards down the track) in 5th, mainly trailing Ap race cars. Don Sesslar, who had to start dead last in the Sports Car Forum Tiger due to not running during qualifying (caused by a "misunderstanding" between Rootes and Doanne), passes the camera just as he was moving up 3 or 4 places. Then in the next shot, about 13 cars pass before Don's Tiger pulls off the track and onto the grass. This was the race where the two quickest Tigers were "punted" out in the first lap. There's a story I've heard from 3 completely different parties that Chevy gave/rewarded the driver of the Stingray that nailed the Hollywood Sports Car Tiger a new Vette as well as a new pick-up truck in time for the next race season. Before seeing this video, I had no idea about how extensively both Tigers were damaged. At about 1:30 into the video there's a shot of Don's Tiger on the grass. It took a big hit on the right front. At about 5:40, what appears to be the HSC Tiger, passes the camera. It looks like there's so little left of the HSC passenger door after the "accident" that you can see Jim Adams lap as he drives past the camera. Buck Trippel >> >> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AsL_W7I5OlA > > > The video also shows the HSC car.. and looks to have had a hit on the > drivers side. You see it leaving the grid at 5:12 (seems to be wearing > number 7) and then see it drive past before the SCF tiger goes off at > 5:30 then you get a ncei nice close-up drive by at 5:40! if only > there was sound. > > -- > Regards > > Michael King From PhastPhill at aol.com Tue Aug 12 18:33:01 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:33:01 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Brake Lights intermitant Message-ID: If you have to replace the brake light pressure switch, be careful you get one with the correct threads. Seems to be at least two styles available. I was lucky my local british parts guy had the correct one in stock. This stuff is brass so you could strip it easily, take your time. From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Tue Aug 12 18:37:27 2008 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] K&N filter Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF0A39A3D7@norn32.d30.intra> Owain, The K&N unit that is supplid is smaller than what can be fit into the housing. I would go for a 1 and > tall by 14 inch diameter piece. If you squeeze it in you get all of the filter you can use. Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc. 23961 Via El Rocio Mission Viejo, CA 92691 PH: 949-305-5393 Cell: 949-289-3357 FX: 425-955-6268 Email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal Email: timronak at cox.net If you received this message in error please inform the sender and delete the message. From DJoh797014 at aol.com Tue Aug 12 19:30:29 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:30:29 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Brake Lights intermitant Message-ID: The brake light switch is hydraulic and is mounted on the brake junction under the generator. As have been discussed on pervious lists, this switch is prone to get sticky and not work without pressing hard on the pedal. Best advice was switch to a mechanical switch from a pick a part donor. Dave In a message dated 8/12/2008 5:24:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, v8sunbeamtiger at hotmail.com writes: its been a while since Ive replied or posted. But i took the tiger out for a nice cruise the other day and someone stopped me and said the brake lights dont work. Well i went home and checked them out. now i cant check them my self mving, but i checked them stopped. And then come on sometimes, sometimes they flicker. most of the time they dont come on at all. Now i did this both with engine idleing and revved up a little for the generator to throw some charge. Now is there a switch inline with the brake line or is there a switch on the back of the brake pedal? I only had a couple minutes to look at it, but it looked like there is some sort of inline switch in the brake lines right down by the generator. anyone have this problem before?? thanks. Joey _________________________________________________________________ Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WLY IA_whichathlete_us You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From srekate at pacifier.com Tue Aug 12 20:14:13 2008 From: srekate at pacifier.com (Scott Rekate) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:14:13 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fun video Message-ID: Just got home, so chiming in a little late here on the left coast to catch up on the emails. Thanks Sandy for the inspiring video on where not to stand when at a race rally. And did you also take a look at the one of a Factory Five Cobra. The onboard mic/camera pics up a little too much wind but the growl of its V8 has fervent resonance, gives me chills, and reminds me of my own 331 stroker. Youser! http://www.motorator.com/videos/177 Scott B382000659 From twotigers at verizon.net Tue Aug 12 20:54:47 2008 From: twotigers at verizon.net (Kirk Smith) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:54:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Don Sesslar's Tiger at the SCCA Runoffs - YouTube Message-ID: <001201c8fcef$f2f51370$2f01a8c0@smith> That's pretty neat stuff. Those old 8mm cameras would only shoot about 3 minutes of film before you had to change to a new roll- whoever spliced them together must have gotten them out of order. What a treasure! Kirk B382000503 From MWood24020 at aol.com Tue Aug 12 21:09:51 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 23:09:51 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Don Sesslar's Tiger at the SCCA Runoffs - YouTube Message-ID: Great find...amazing what turns up on the 'net. Thanks for lending a little background/context, Buck. For some reason, even though I was brand new to this world during the era of sports car racing depicted, I've always gravitated towards the mid to late '60s road racing cars...the Tiger content is very cool, but there's just so much more to see on this clip! Thanks again for posting, Steve. Mike Wood In a message dated 8/12/2008 5:01:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, BuckTrippel at Verizon.net writes: I had given up hope of ever seeing videos of either of the those factory supported Tigers, much less both of them in the same race. Steve, great job finding this for us! What's confusing about this video is that the last minute of it shows the first minute of the race. The next part of the race is seen in the first part of the Video. The run group is combined Ap and Bp. It looks like a standing start and Jim Adams, driving the HSC Tiger, passes the camera (located about 300 yards down the track) in 5th, mainly trailing Ap race cars. Don Sesslar, who had to start dead last in the Sports Car Forum Tiger due to not running during qualifying (caused by a "misunderstanding" between Rootes and Doanne), passes the camera just as he was moving up 3 or 4 places. Then in the next shot, about 13 cars pass before Don's Tiger pulls off the track and onto the grass. This was the race where the two quickest Tigers were "punted" out in the first lap. There's a story I've heard from 3 completely different parties that Chevy gave/rewarded the driver of the Stingray that nailed the Hollywood Sports Car Tiger a new Vette as well as a new pick-up truck in time for the next race season. Before seeing this video, I had no idea about how extensively both Tigers were damaged. At about 1:30 into the video there's a shot of Don's Tiger on the grass. It took a big hit on the right front. At about 5:40, what appears to be the HSC Tiger, passes the camera. It looks like there's so little left of the HSC passenger door after the "accident" that you can see Jim Adams lap as he drives past the camera. Buck Trippel >> >> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AsL_W7I5OlA > > > The video also shows the HSC car.. and looks to have had a hit on the > drivers side. You see it leaving the grid at 5:12 (seems to be wearing > number 7) and then see it drive past before the SCF tiger goes off at > 5:30 then you get a ncei nice close-up drive by at 5:40! if only > there was sound. > > -- > Regards > > Michael King You are subscribed as mwood24020 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From sganz at pacbell.net Tue Aug 12 21:16:31 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fun video Message-ID: <88159.51631.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you like the sound of a 331 you will like this, well, except for the obvious ending. Search the site for 'The Ripper' for more 331 audio enjoyment... And yes, I love the old guy almost getting plowed then nervously making his way to safety! Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Scott Rekate To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:14:13 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fun video Just got home, so chiming in a little late here on the left coast to catch up on the emails. Thanks Sandy for the inspiring video on where not to stand when at a race rally. And did you also take a look at the one of a Factory Five Cobra. The onboard mic/camera pics up a little too much wind but the growl of its V8 has fervent resonance, gives me chills, and reminds me of my own 331 stroker. Youser! http://www.motorator.com/videos/177 Scott B382000659 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Tue Aug 12 21:20:12 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fun video Message-ID: <133772.10971.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And yet again I forgot the link.... http://www.motorator.com/videos/41 ----- Original Message ---- From: Sandy Ganz To: Scott Rekate ; tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 8:16:31 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fun video If you like the sound of a 331 you will like this, well, except for the obvious ending. Search the site for 'The Ripper' for more 331 audio enjoyment... And yes, I love the old guy almost getting plowed then nervously making his way to safety! Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Scott Rekate To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 7:14:13 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fun video Just got home, so chiming in a little late here on the left coast to catch up on the emails. Thanks Sandy for the inspiring video on where not to stand when at a race rally. And did you also take a look at the one of a Factory Five Cobra. The onboard mic/camera pics up a little too much wind but the growl of its V8 has fervent resonance, gives me chills, and reminds me of my own 331 stroker. Youser! http://www.motorator.com/videos/177 Scott B382000659 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From MTaylor at ea.com Tue Aug 12 21:32:44 2008 From: MTaylor at ea.com (Taylor, Matthew) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:32:44 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Don Sesslar's Tiger at the SCCA Runoffs - YouTube In-Reply-To: <001701c8fcd7$a1b08ed0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> References: <90F8AF26-2CA2-4BF9-B376-14966593CAA4@comcast.net> <001701c8fcd7$a1b08ed0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <3FA9E5EE4E0C2F4C8A5F7E8D718A0F965EE4283622@NA-MAIL-1-1.rws.ad.ea.com> Yes, thank you Steve! Excellent find. And thank you Buck for the added information. Now if we could just find some footage on the drag Tigers! Matthew Subject: Re: [Tigers] Don Sesslar's Tiger at the SCCA Runoffs - YouTube I had given up hope of ever seeing videos of either of the those factory supported Tigers, much less both of them in the same race. Steve, great job finding this for us! What's confusing about this video is that the last minute of it shows the first minute of the race. The next part of the race is seen in the first part of the Video. The run group is combined Ap and Bp. It looks like a standing start and Jim Adams, driving the HSC Tiger, passes the camera (located about 300 yards down the track) in 5th, mainly trailing Ap race cars. Don Sesslar, who had to start dead last in the Sports Car Forum Tiger due to not running during qualifying (caused by a "misunderstanding" between Rootes and Doanne), passes the camera just as he was moving up 3 or 4 places. Then in the next shot, about 13 cars pass before Don's Tiger pulls off the track and onto the grass. This was the race where the two quickest Tigers were "punted" out in the first lap. There's a story I've heard from 3 completely different parties that Chevy gave/rewarded the driver of the Stingray that nailed the Hollywood Sports Car Tiger a new Vette as well as a new pick-up truck in time for the next race season. Before seeing this video, I had no idea about how extensively both Tigers were damaged. At about 1:30 into the video there's a shot of Don's Tiger on the grass. It took a big hit on the right front. At about 5:40, what appears to be the HSC Tiger, passes the camera. It looks like there's so little left of the HSC passenger door after the "accident" that you can see Jim Adams lap as he drives past the camera. Buck Trippel From tigerlat70 at comcast.net Tue Aug 12 21:32:39 2008 From: tigerlat70 at comcast.net (Steve Coleman) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:32:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Climb Dance Video Message-ID: <020e01c8fcf5$3d499a40$b770d262@stevesdell> This has been posted before two years ago, but I love turning up the sound and enjoying, anyone ever done this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P-sAbVNde4 SC From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 22:18:47 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:18:47 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Climb Dance Video In-Reply-To: <020e01c8fcf5$3d499a40$b770d262@stevesdell> References: <020e01c8fcf5$3d499a40$b770d262@stevesdell> Message-ID: there was an alpine that did the climb in early 60's.. either a SI or II.. it set slowest time...oh, and it also had whitewalls!! -- Regards Michael King From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 04:42:00 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:42:00 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Holley Question In-Reply-To: <48A20BFE.3060506@cs.com> References: <486E8D93.1010504@cs.com> <48A20BFE.3060506@cs.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808130342k55eea3f1j6ca6dc611abfba41@mail.gmail.com> glad to here it. its always worth setting the floats when installing a new carb or making fuel system changes as it depends on the fuel pressure being delivered so can't really be factory set. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:17 PM, Randy Smith wrote: > About a month ago I posted the following question: > > /"Ok, so I'm too lazy to do the research on my own, but everyone is so > helpful, you make it too easy to ask...... I just installed an F4B and > new Holley 0-1848-1 (465 cfm). The car idles very well and runs at all > RPM's pretty strong. The only issue is when you hit the gas quickly. > Then it stumbles. If you tickle it a bit, it picks right up and goes > quickly and strongly up through the RPM's to redline. Sounds like an > accelerator pump adjustment of some sort????? Timing and advance appears > to be right on. Checked for vacuum leaks too, and everything looks OK. > Any suggestions on tweaking the carb?" > / > Just to follow-up, the car now runs super-good. I took it over to my > local drag-racer mechanic who has lots of experience with Holley's. He > told me to go buy a Holley spring kit for the secondaries and a ramp kit > for the accelerator pump, because we would likely need to try some > different combinations. As it turns out, it was even simpler than > that. The first thing he checked was the float level in both bowls. > Remember that this was a NEW Holley 1848, right out of the box. The > front level was low. The rear level was beyond low. We readjusted both > to the correct factory spec. Then he checked the actuator rod for the > accelerator pump. It was adjusted much too long to the point that it > was only giving a partial stroke during each pump. He adjusted it > shorter to give a full stroke. DONE. That was it. No need for any > additional parts. It idles, runs and accelerates fantastic now. > Another lesson learned. Double-check the factory settings too! Hope > that might be helpful to someone else out there. > > -Randy > > -- > > Randy Smith > INNER QUEST, Inc. > 34752 Charles Town Pike > Purcellville, VA 20132 > 703-478-1078 > 540-668-6699 > 540-668-6253 fax > > InnerQuestOnline.com > RSSmithIQ at cs.com > Tiger- B382000189 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From srwick at hotmail.com Wed Aug 13 05:43:38 2008 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 04:43:38 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question Message-ID: I had to cut my exhaust out of the car to remove the rear end, for the rebuild, because the exhaust pipes looped UNDER the rear end instead of over. I was wondering if this is the way they are supposed to be or do they go over the top like every other car on the planet. Thanks for any insight in advance. Steve From Rollright at aol.com Wed Aug 13 06:10:03 2008 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:10:03 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Brake light switch Message-ID: Joey, Are you running normal or silicon brake fluid? The brake light pressure switch REALLY doesn't like silicon brake fluid. I would go through a switch every year or so when I was running silicon. With standard fluid the switches just do their job without fail. The above insight came from Rick McLeod who sells a lot of brake light switches to people running silicon. Best regards, Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 06:15:04 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:15:04 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Fun video In-Reply-To: <285058.85527.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <285058.85527.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808130515t1c56d026w89e53cf963be7615@mail.gmail.com> those early renault 5 turbos were awesome cars. mid engined and 160hp! i tried to buy one earlier this year but they are worth a mint now. On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Sandy Ganz wrote: > Normally don't find videos that are really that fun to watch, but something > fun about watching these little cars go over and over, made my Monday watching > it a couple of times ;-) > > http://www.motorator.com/videos/372 > Sandy > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From wsamouce at kc.rr.com Wed Aug 13 05:26:18 2008 From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:26:18 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c8fd37$6805fa70$3811ef50$@rr.com> Mine are under. Over would not work, no room. Duke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of steve wick Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:44 AM To: tigers Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question I had to cut my exhaust out of the car to remove the rear end, for the rebuild, because the exhaust pipes looped UNDER the rear end instead of over. I was wondering if this is the way they are supposed to be or do they go over the top like every other car on the planet. Thanks for any insight in advance. Steve You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 06:29:05 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:29:05 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question In-Reply-To: <000001c8fd37$6805fa70$3811ef50$@rr.com> References: <000001c8fd37$6805fa70$3811ef50$@rr.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808130529j493485d3p2125d7326bd7687a@mail.gmail.com> i think they are meant to be over but mine are also under. you can just disconnect the rear hangers and then drop the axle a little and move it back over the ends of the pipes. On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Duke Samouce wrote: > Mine are under. Over would not work, no room. > > Duke > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of steve > wick > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:44 AM > To: tigers > Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question > > I had to cut my exhaust out of the car to remove the rear end, for the > rebuild, because the exhaust pipes looped UNDER the rear end instead of > over. > I was wondering if this is the way they are supposed to be or do they go > over > the top like every other car on the planet. Thanks for any insight in > advance. > > Steve > You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From michael.s.king at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 07:14:36 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:14:36 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question In-Reply-To: <39a841b0808130529j493485d3p2125d7326bd7687a@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c8fd37$6805fa70$3811ef50$@rr.com> <39a841b0808130529j493485d3p2125d7326bd7687a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The factory exhaust on a tiger goes UNDER the rear axel... its kind of like the steering on the Tiger, nobody else does it that way.. but it seems to work somehow ;-) -- Regards Michael King From todbrown at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 13 07:48:08 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:48:08 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Brake Lights intermitant Message-ID: <48A2E618.8070506@roadrunner.com> Joey: The other possibility to check regarding the brake lights is that the electrical connection that feeds the brake lights is secure. It is located up under the dash on the left side. Ask me how I know this. Tod B382002384LRXFE From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 08:27:38 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:27:38 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question In-Reply-To: References: <000001c8fd37$6805fa70$3811ef50$@rr.com> <39a841b0808130529j493485d3p2125d7326bd7687a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808130727v6007449fxc16de7024b76886b@mail.gmail.com> thanks everyone - i stand corrected! i have seen a few going over the axle though. i imagine under would give better clearance and less flow restriction though. On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 2:14 PM, michael king wrote: > The factory exhaust on a tiger goes UNDER the rear axel... its kind of > like the steering on the Tiger, nobody else does it that way.. but it > seems to work somehow ;-) > > > -- > Regards > > Michael King > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Wed Aug 13 08:35:34 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:35:34 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F1ED@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Putting a bolt-together flange (or even a slip joint) behind the mufflers makes it pretty easy to detach the back half of the exhaust for rear axle work. Just make sure that when your car goes to the muffler shop, that you clearly explain that the exhaust is NOT to go over the axle tubes, and take your Tiger elsewhere if they insist on doing it the "usual" way. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Owain Lloyd Sent: August 13, 2008 8:28 AM To: michael king; Peter Stanisavljevich Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Exhaust question thanks everyone - i stand corrected! i have seen a few going over the axle though. i imagine under would give better clearance and less flow restriction though. From wrgegg at att.net Wed Aug 13 10:28:52 2008 From: wrgegg at att.net (Bill Gegg) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Tiger for Sale Message-ID: <392344.43515.qm@web83723.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Moderator: Can the forum be used to sell a Tiger? Thanks Bill Gegg From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Wed Aug 13 11:26:40 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:26:40 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Racing but otherwise off topic Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F1F2@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Anyone else doing Hood to Coast next week? Theo From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Wed Aug 13 14:12:03 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:12:03 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] K&N Air Filters, P/N's Message-ID: <48A34013.2010809@SoCal.rr.com> Mark, I've had both the original paper filter, and the K&N. The stock paper filter is un-obtanium, and comes folded in a rectangular c/s small box. It needs to be stretched, and attached to the other end with the sticky surface provided. Replacement oval paper filters are available. I am using the K&N replacement, which is cleanable, and re-oil able with the K&N oil. The Part Number is *E-2859,* and the "E-3710*" *seems identical. Originally from Sunbeam Specialties, who no longer stocks this part as K&N decided their sales volume wasn't large enough. It is oval, 1 1/2 inches thick, and perfectly fits the original air filter. These are not listed by application as the cars are too old, and limited quantities to list them. However, they still work well. They are searchable by part number. I recommend this as it is a good filter, and MUST be cleaned and re-oiled occasionally (going on 20K miles and still looks good) Autozone, Pep Boys, and many other dealers are on the K&N website: http://www.knfilters.com/filtercharger.htm but stocking needs a call to your dealer. The List Price is about $59. Steve -- ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Wed Aug 13 14:28:24 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:28:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Climb Dance Video In-Reply-To: <020e01c8fcf5$3d499a40$b770d262@stevesdell> References: <020e01c8fcf5$3d499a40$b770d262@stevesdell> Message-ID: <48A343E8.40308@SoCal.rr.com> WOW! 14,764 feet up on dirt roads, with outside turns next to unguarded cliff edge. This is "heart-in-mouth" racing. ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Steve Coleman wrote: > This has been posted before two years ago, but I love turning up the sound > and enjoying, anyone ever done this? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P-sAbVNde4 > > > SC From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Wed Aug 13 14:39:59 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:39:59 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger for Sale In-Reply-To: <392344.43515.qm@web83723.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <392344.43515.qm@web83723.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48A3469F.40309@SoCal.rr.com> Bill, At one time the Tiger Forum, on TigersUnited.com, could be used for that. We had to eliminate this feature when we changed to our new host, as it took to much time (limited available, without volunteers) - lots of work! I do believe that other Tiger web sites (TE/AE) still provide this feature. http://teae.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=1ef6544a686a4efe82f06d53b92c9d1a Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Bill Gegg wrote: > Moderator: > Can the forum be used to sell a Tiger? > > Thanks > Bill Gegg From stubrennan at comcast.net Wed Aug 13 14:50:35 2008 From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:50:35 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Climb Dance In-Reply-To: <48A3469F.40309@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <001501c8fd86$3d8d1400$6601a8c0@Brennan> You can download a MPEG of Climb dance at: http://www.geocities.com/nosro/climbdance/ This might be a better looking version than the low res that you tube provides. Stu From stubrennan at comcast.net Wed Aug 13 16:22:32 2008 From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:22:32 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Climb Dance In-Reply-To: <001501c8fd86$3d8d1400$6601a8c0@Brennan> Message-ID: <000001c8fd93$156883d0$6601a8c0@Brennan> It looks like that link no longer works. Here's a couple more: http://www.gofastvideo.com/gallery/item/predownload/128/free-racing/vide os/climb-dance.html http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3368948773832597270 The video looks better, I think. I just tried these. Stu From srwick at hotmail.com Wed Aug 13 17:53:46 2008 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:53:46 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Exhaust question References: <000001c8fd37$6805fa70$3811ef50$@rr.com><39a841b0808130529j493485d3p2125d7326bd7687a@mail.gmail.com> <39a841b0808130727v6007449fxc16de7024b76886b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'd like to thank everyone again for the answer to my question. I'll be sure to put it back correctly. I just wanted to be sure what that was. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Owain Lloyd To: michael king ; Peter Stanisavljevich Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Exhaust question thanks everyone - i stand corrected! i have seen a few going over the axle though. i imagine under would give better clearance and less flow restriction though. On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 2:14 PM, michael king > wrote: > The factory exhaust on a tiger goes UNDER the rear axel... its kind of > like the steering on the Tiger, nobody else does it that way.. but it > seems to work somehow ;-) > > > -- > Regards > > Michael King From srwick at hotmail.com Wed Aug 13 20:35:19 2008 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:35:19 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Rear end colors Message-ID: I'm degreasing and prepping my axle housing prior to rebuild. What is the correct color to repaint it if I want to look original. Right now it looks like the center section is red oxide and the tubes/backing plates are black. Steve From CoolVT at aol.com Wed Aug 13 20:44:38 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:44:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Brake pads Message-ID: Does anyone have numbers from any manufacturers for Tiger brake pads? Wasn't there some Triumph that used the same pads? M **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) From awtiger at cox.net Wed Aug 13 20:47:27 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:47:27 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Brake pads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080813224727.ROGBE.238758.imail@fed1rmwml28> If memory serves me correctly, I think it was the TR-6 that shared pads with the Tiger. Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE ---- CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have numbers from any manufacturers for Tiger brake pads? > Wasn't there some Triumph that used the same pads? > M > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 13 21:06:20 2008 From: rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com (Robert Palmer) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:06:20 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Brake pads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004801c8fdba$ba047da0$2e0d78e0$@com> Both Tr-4 and 240Z pads fit. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:45 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Brake pads Does anyone have numbers from any manufacturers for Tiger brake pads? Wasn't there some Triumph that used the same pads? M From RSSmithIQ at cs.com Wed Aug 13 21:09:39 2008 From: RSSmithIQ at cs.com (Randy Smith) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:09:39 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Correct Badge Motif In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A3A1F3.6090901@cs.com> If anyone is still tracking this, B382000189 has Sunbeam 260 on both fenders and the trunk with no Pentastar. Scott Hutchinson wrote: > I think the correct answer would be "nobody knows for sure when the exact changeover occured." > > This could be interesting. > > Let's have a poll. > > B382000829. > > Sunbeam 260 badge with Chrysler Pentastar. > > -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ at cs.com Tiger- B382000189 From RSSmithIQ at cs.com Wed Aug 13 21:13:37 2008 From: RSSmithIQ at cs.com (Randy Smith) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:13:37 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Brake pads In-Reply-To: <004801c8fdba$ba047da0$2e0d78e0$@com> References: <004801c8fdba$ba047da0$2e0d78e0$@com> Message-ID: <48A3A2E1.1060003@cs.com> That's curious. Anybody know why? Did Datsun try to copy the Brit's so closely that they even copied the brake pad dimensions? -Randy Robert Palmer wrote: > Both Tr-4 and 240Z pads fit. > > -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ at cs.com Tiger- B382000189 From twotigers at verizon.net Wed Aug 13 22:49:44 2008 From: twotigers at verizon.net (Kirk Smith) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:49:44 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Brake pads Message-ID: <004b01c8fdc9$2cace000$2f01a8c0@smith> I seem to remember our 1966 Datsun pickup had a lot of Morris Minor in it. From jteepen at usatoday.com Thu Aug 14 09:06:15 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:06:15 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Brake pads In-Reply-To: <48A3A2E1.1060003@cs.com> Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E9724A238CEE@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Initially, the Japanese auto industry built their cars using designs licensed from the British auto industry. I believe the first was a variant of the Austin Seven. This relationship was re-established after WWII and lasted through the 1970's. A comparison of components between British and Japanese cars of the same era will show how close the Japanese industry followed the licensing agreements, many times with improvements to the components. Some will interchange with British parts, but most have a minor difference that prevents a direct swap. Metric measurements are one of the big differences that make crossover difficult. As an example, the popular Sunbeam modification of a Mazda pick up (Ford Courier) brake master cylinder swap is such a close fit because of this licensing relationship. Jere Teepen -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randy Smith Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:14 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Brake pads That's curious. Anybody know why? Did Datsun try to copy the Brit's so closely that they even copied the brake pad dimensions? -Randy Robert Palmer wrote: > Both Tr-4 and 240Z pads fit. > > -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ at cs.com Tiger- B382000189 From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 14 09:35:54 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:35:54 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Rear end colors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c8fe23$759d6960$43b11840@ronpc1> Steve Those are the correct colors. TBON states that the center section was Glyptal dipped, Glyptal is red and looks much like primer red; the rear cover, axle tubes and backing plates were black. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of steve wick Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:35 PM To: tigers Subject: [Tigers] Rear end colors I'm degreasing and prepping my axle housing prior to rebuild. What is the correct color to repaint it if I want to look original. Right now it looks like the center section is red oxide and the tubes/backing plates are black. Steve You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1610 - Release Date: 8/13/2008 4:14 PM From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Thu Aug 14 09:37:56 2008 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:37:56 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Brake lights Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF0A3C58F0@norn32.d30.intra> Joey, The pressure switch is failing and the contacts are getting weak. Two options ... replace the switch. AND /Or go to the LED bulbs available that require MUCH less current that the stock type bulbs. In my car it worked incredibly well for about 6 months until I got around to changing the Pressure switch. Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings, Inc. 23961 Via El Rocio Mission Viejo, CA 92691 PH: 949-305-5393 Cell: 949-289-3357 FX: 425-955-6268 Email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal Email: timronak at cox.net If you received this message in error please inform the sender and delete the message. From racetig at verizon.net Thu Aug 14 10:47:44 2008 From: racetig at verizon.net (Rob) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:47:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging Message-ID: <10801538.4079751218732464599.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net> Just for the record: Car 382000805 260 Fender Badges/No Pentstar. Hope this helps narrow the gap... Rob Rob From hallmotors at cox.net Thu Aug 14 11:01:10 2008 From: hallmotors at cox.net (Hall Motors) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:01:10 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging In-Reply-To: <10801538.4079751218732464599.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net> References: <10801538.4079751218732464599.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <001401c8fe2f$5a0d05a0$0e2710e0$@net> Car B382000609LRXFE, original survivor: Sunbeam V8 badges on fenders and boot (don't know what a Pentstar is). Regards, Brad -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:48 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging Just for the record: Car 382000805 260 Fender Badges/No Pentstar. Hope this helps narrow the gap... Rob Rob You are subscribed as hallmotors at cox.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From tym2 at comcast.net Thu Aug 14 11:05:48 2008 From: tym2 at comcast.net (tym2 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:05:48 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Carb Issue solved Message-ID: <081420081705.10755.48A465EA00073D5100002A032215575474CD03979B@comcast.net> A while ago I sent and e-mail to the list regarding the trouble i was having with my car (carburetor). The car didn't idle smooth and only performed well when I would really get on it. I have a "built" 302 with a Carter Competition Series carb. Finally, I took it to a guy who specializes in carburetors. He took the top of the carb off and it was filled with water - old, black water. He said it had been in there so long that it was black, and the butterflies were rusty. He bead-blasted and rebuilt the carb installing new metering rods, butterflies, and bigger jets as he said the car was running to lean. To make a long story short, the car is now running great. The obvious question? The answer is "No." I have absolutely no idea how the water got in there! Thanks again for all the support I got from the list. Helpful as always. -- Tym McDowell From rootes1 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 14 12:13:17 2008 From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:13:17 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging Message-ID: Unless I'm mistaken, B382000609 LRXFE was undressed and repainted by Roger Winslow. No guarantee the original clothing went back on. ncm At 10:01 AM 8/14/2008, Hall Motors wrote: >Car B382000609LRXFE, original survivor: > >Sunbeam V8 badges on fenders and boot (don't know what a Pentstar is). No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 AM From rjw at wengco.com Thu Aug 14 13:15:02 2008 From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:15:02 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C59C19D6@weco1.wengco.com> V8 no Pentstar Bob B382001318 -----Original Message----- From: Rob [mailto:racetig at verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:48 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging Just for the record: Car 382000805 260 Fender Badges/No Pentstar. Hope this helps narrow the gap... Rob Rob You are subscribed as rjw at wengco.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu Aug 14 15:06:58 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:06:58 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging In-Reply-To: <001401c8fe2f$5a0d05a0$0e2710e0$@net> References: <10801538.4079751218732464599.JavaMail.root@vms246.mailsrvcs.net> <001401c8fe2f$5a0d05a0$0e2710e0$@net> Message-ID: <48A49E72.4060703@SoCal.rr.com> Brad, A "Pentastar" is the Logo for Chrysler, and was put on Tigers and Alpines after they took over operations. Some were even installed on dealer's stock, so the exact beginning is hard to pin down. Here is a "Pentastar" in the upper left corner. http://www.chryslerllc.com/en My Mk I (B9472289) does NOT have a "Pentastar", but does have the Powered by Ford - 260 badge. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Hall Motors wrote: > Car B382000609LRXFE, original survivor: > > Sunbeam V8 badges on fenders and boot (don't know what a Pentstar is). > > Regards, > Brad From cmccann at lwpb.com Thu Aug 14 15:09:46 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:09:46 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging In-Reply-To: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C59C19D6@weco1.wengco.com> References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C59C19D6@weco1.wengco.com> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337E597B50@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Don't know if this helps much, mine is kinda different, but the serial is so close to the original post car in question...I wish I could be more help.... B382001452 LROFE ("Alpine" scripts) 260 badge No pentastar was present when the car was acquired...but I had a series V alpine that I used for parts, and gave my pentastars off that car to a friend here in OK....who is probably listening as we speak... ;) V8 no Pentstar Bob B382001318 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging Just for the record: Car 382000805 260 Fender Badges/No Pentstar. Hope this helps narrow the gap... From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu Aug 14 15:23:28 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:23:28 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F201@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> The Alpine scripts and LROFE suffix is consistent with a car originally sold in continental Europe, as I understand it. It should also have had orange turn signal indicators as OEM equipment, IIRC. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cullen McCann Sent: August 14, 2008 3:10 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Fender Badging Don't know if this helps much, mine is kinda different, but the serial is so close to the original post car in question...I wish I could be more help.... B382001452 LROFE ("Alpine" scripts) 260 badge No pentastar was present when the car was acquired...but I had a series V alpine that I used for parts, and gave my pentastars off that car to a friend here in OK....who is probably listening as we speak... ;) V8 no Pentstar Bob B382001318 From cmccann at lwpb.com Thu Aug 14 15:36:26 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:36:26 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F201@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F201@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337E597B60@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Theo, yes that's correct, and that information has been given to me before. STOC's website elaborates on it quite a bit for the LRO cars: http://www.sunbeamtiger.co.uk/catswhiskers/CW68alpine260.htm Being the "L" designation meaning is still left hand drive....suggests ( to me) that the car was probably sold in Europe in a country where they still drive on the right side of the road, like Germany....(?) I think that is correct. Much of the trim on my car was missing when I got it, it basically had been stripped, but I'm putting the lenses back and the alpine badges and such as it would have been....based off what mr. miller told me originally when I got the car, and Andy Walker here in Oklahoma.... he gave me the initial knowledge base that I have on that configuration. It does make it harder to tell people what it is...I mean, the average guy as we've discussed doesn't know the difference between and Alpine and a Tiger, it really throws them off when I tell them it's a Tiger, but its called an Alpine, but its not the same Alpine as the 4cyl cars...etc etc...they just go blank in the face. Cullen "The Alpine scripts and LROFE suffix is consistent with a car originally sold in continental Europe, as I understand it. It should also have had orange turn signal indicators as OEM equipment, IIRC. Theo" From ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 14 15:41:52 2008 From: ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net (Ross) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:41:52 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fender Badging In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337E597B50@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Message-ID: <000c01c8fe56$91566520$6700a8c0@ROSS> Hi, Regarding fender badging and the Pentastar here is what I recall. At one time some years ago I read a Rootes Service Bulletin which stated (paraphrasing here) the location for placement of the "Pentastar" on the right fender centered on the panel about 1" above the door seam line. If anyone out there has a copy of this Service Bulletin I would appreciate a copy as well. Here is a link the Pentastar emblem and they are for sale at $17.95. It is anodized metal on black plastic as the original. http://www.jimsautoparts.com/exterior_chrome_trim.htm Ross "Commodore Blues" Hulse From sralsten at ca.rr.com Thu Aug 14 15:56:51 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:56:51 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Re Tigers badging Message-ID: <23854869.1720711218751011573.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web16-z02> Pentastar is the Chrysler logo, Small gold badge underneath the front fender badges closer to the bottom of the fender. IIRC about the size of a nickel. I don't have one so I can't go look. Steve Car B382000609LRXFE, original survivor: Sunbeam V8 badges on fenders and boot (don't know what a Pentstar is). Regards, Brad From hallmotors at cox.net Thu Aug 14 16:16:26 2008 From: hallmotors at cox.net (Hall Motors) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:16:26 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Re Tigers badging In-Reply-To: <23854869.1720711218751011573.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web16-z02> References: <23854869.1720711218751011573.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web16-z02> Message-ID: <001f01c8fe5b$653573a0$2fa05ae0$@net> Thanks Steve & Steve, I now know what a Pentastar is (I see them all the time). 382000609 does not have any. Regards, Brad -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+hallmotors=cox.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sralsten at ca.rr.com Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:57 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Re Tigers badging Pentastar is the Chrysler logo, Small gold badge underneath the front fender badges closer to the bottom of the fender. IIRC about the size of a nickel. I don't have one so I can't go look. Steve Car B382000609LRXFE, original survivor: Sunbeam V8 badges on fenders and boot (don't know what a Pentstar is). Regards, Brad You are subscribed as hallmotors at cox.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From srwick at hotmail.com Thu Aug 14 20:01:18 2008 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:01:18 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Rear end colors References: <000001c8fe23$759d6960$43b11840@ronpc1> Message-ID: Thanks everyone, for the answers. I figure if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it right. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Fraser To: 'steve wick' ; 'tigers' Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: RE: [Tigers] Rear end colors Steve Those are the correct colors. TBON states that the center section was Glyptal dipped, Glyptal is red and looks much like primer red; the rear cover, axle tubes and backing plates were black. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of steve wick Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:35 PM To: tigers Subject: [Tigers] Rear end colors I'm degreasing and prepping my axle housing prior to rebuild. What is the correct color to repaint it if I want to look original. Right now it looks like the center section is red oxide and the tubes/backing plates are black. Steve _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1610 - Release Date: 8/13/2008 4:14 PM From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Aug 14 20:35:24 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:35:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Rear end colors In-Reply-To: References: <000001c8fe23$759d6960$43b11840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <48A4EB6C.7020206@mayfco.com> You know, I use glyptal on my race engine blocks, heads and bottom of the intake manifold to help oil shedding and return to the pan. There are several things to learn about the stuff. I learned that one single drop can cover half an acre. If you dop a drop on the floor and happen to step in it, it will soon be all over the house, in the shower, toilet seat, etc. It is evil stuff. And quite frankly the glyptal I have is not the same color as what is supposed to be on the rear end. Plus, I do not know why they would put it on the outside as the stuff was made to go inside transformers and such because normal paint failed in oil filled ones. So I looked at my spare rear end and it is stock and it is not the same color. More like a read lead primer. But whatever... mayf steve wick wrote: >Thanks everyone, for the answers. I figure if I'm going to do it, I might as >well do it right. > >Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ron Fraser > To: 'steve wick' ; >'tigers' > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:35 AM > Subject: RE: [Tigers] Rear end colors > > > Steve > Those are the correct colors. > > TBON states that the center section was Glyptal dipped, Glyptal is red and > looks much like primer red; the rear cover, axle tubes and backing plates > were black. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: >tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.netser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net> > [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > steve wick > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:35 PM > To: tigers > Subject: [Tigers] Rear end colors > > > I'm degreasing and prepping my axle housing prior to rebuild. What is the > correct color to repaint it if I want to look original. Right now it looks > like the center section is red oxide and the tubes/backing plates are >black. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net >http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigersistinfo/tigers> > > http://www.team.net/archive > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1610 - Release Date: 8/13/2008 > 4:14 PM >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Thu Aug 14 20:58:27 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:58:27 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Panasports Message-ID: I just received some Panasports from Dale A. The bolt spacing is supposed to be 4.5" and these are marked 108mm. I may not be the best in metric conversion but I think 4.5" should be around 114.3mm. They slide over the wheels studs okay, but are these going to work? The studs won't be perfectly centered in the holes. I don't want something that is going to vibrate or bump...or be unsafe. Mark L. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From jim at island.net Thu Aug 14 21:02:45 2008 From: jim at island.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:02:45 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Panasports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <012501c8fe83$64c6a510$4101a8c0@JIMPC> 4 on 4-1/4 (108 mm) Alfa Romeo (exc. Alfetta) Ford - Fairmont '78-'86 - Mustang 4-bolt patterns '74-'93 - T-Bird '80-'88 - Pinto '71-'80 - Fiesta '78-'85 - Escort all (RWD and FWD) - Cortina all - Taurus, Tempo, EXP to '89 - German-built Capri I, II, III '69-'8? Mercury - Capri '71-'88 - Cougar '79-'88 - Merkur, Topaz, Lynx '80-'89 - Zephyr '78-'86 Plymouth Cricket Porsche - 924 '77-'84 Sunbeam - Tiger, Alpine '65-'70 Jim B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: August 14, 2008 7:58 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Panasports I just received some Panasports from Dale A. The bolt spacing is supposed to be 4.5" and these are marked 108mm. I may not be the best in metric conversion but I think 4.5" should be around 114.3mm. They slide over the wheels studs okay, but are these going to work? The studs won't be perfectly centered in the holes. I don't want something that is going to vibrate or bump...or be unsafe. Mark L. **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00 030000000007 ) You are subscribed as jim at island.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Thu Aug 14 21:04:49 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:04:49 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Panasports Message-ID: Oh, so the Tiger is 4.25" and not 4.5" Whew! It that's the case they are right on. Thanks to those who answered. Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From tgrrr at peoplepc.com Thu Aug 14 21:07:26 2008 From: tgrrr at peoplepc.com (Bob Hokanson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:07:26 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Panasports References: Message-ID: <001401c8fe84$0c7fcf20$60ebf204@bob> According to my calculations 4.25 in (Stock Tiger bolt circle dia) converts to 107.950 mm... pretty close Bob H ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:58 PM Subject: [Tigers] Panasports >I just received some Panasports from Dale A. The bolt spacing is supposed > to be 4.5" and these are marked 108mm. I may not be the best in metric > conversion but I think 4.5" should be around 114.3mm. They slide over > the wheels > studs okay, but are these going to work? The studs won't be perfectly > centered > in the holes. I don't want something that is going to vibrate or > bump...or > be unsafe. > Mark L. > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 > ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tgrrr at peoplepc.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Thu Aug 14 21:09:26 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:09:26 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Panasports Message-ID: Definitely close enough. For some reason I was thinking the Tiger spacing was 4.5" and not the 4.25" that it actually is. My error. M **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu Aug 14 21:11:11 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:11:11 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Panasports Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F203@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> 4 on 108 is equivalent to 4 on 4 1/4" so far as wheel mounting is concerned. The one you have to watch for is that older Mazda wheels are 4 on 110 and that is close enough that you can install the wheels on Tiger or Alpine hubs, but tightening the lug nuts will bend things. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Hokanson Sent: August 14, 2008 9:07 PM To: Tigers; CoolVT at aol.com Subject: Re: [Tigers] Panasports According to my calculations 4.25 in (Stock Tiger bolt circle dia) converts to 107.950 mm... pretty close Bob H ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:58 PM Subject: [Tigers] Panasports >I just received some Panasports from Dale A. The bolt spacing is supposed > to be 4.5" and these are marked 108mm. I may not be the best in metric > conversion but I think 4.5" should be around 114.3mm. They slide over > the wheels > studs okay, but are these going to work? The studs won't be perfectly > centered > in the holes. I don't want something that is going to vibrate or > bump...or > be unsafe. > Mark L. > > > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your > budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aola ut00030000000007 > ) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tgrrr at peoplepc.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as theo.smit at dynastream.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From todbrown at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 15 07:41:42 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:41:42 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Panasports Message-ID: <48A58796.7030602@roadrunner.com> Mark: The bolt circle diameter on a Tiger is 4 1/4 inches, not 4 1/2. That makes the metric equivalent, according to my calculation, 107.95 mm. As the engineers say, "Close enough for all practical purposes". I also have a set of Panasports on my Tiger that I got from Dale and they fit perfectly. Cheers, Tod B382002384LRXFE V8 badges and a pentastar From tym2 at comcast.net Fri Aug 15 08:30:18 2008 From: tym2 at comcast.net (tym2 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:30:18 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Panasports Message-ID: <081520081430.25452.48A592F8000AD9010000636C2215578674CD03979B@comcast.net> Mine do too. And, they look grrrrreat! -- Tym McDowell -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Tod Brown > Mark: > The bolt circle diameter on a Tiger is 4 1/4 inches, not 4 1/2. That > makes the metric equivalent, according to my > calculation, 107.95 mm. As the engineers say, "Close enough for all > practical purposes". I also have a set of > Panasports on my Tiger that I got from Dale and they fit perfectly. > Cheers, > Tod > B382002384LRXFE > V8 badges and a pentastar > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tym2 at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri Aug 15 12:17:11 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:17:11 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers] Panasports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A5C827.8020300@SoCal.rr.com> Mark, 108 mm converts to 4.2519685 inches. 4.5 inches is exactly 114.3 mm. I don't exactly know what "bolt spacing" is. I am much more used to "bolt circle" as describing the diameter of the circle through the center of the bolt holes/studs. HOWEVER, Panasport describes the bolt circle as 108 mm.! HOWEVER, "offset" is really an important value to assure that the relation ship between the rear wheel mounting surface differs from the tire width center. I have heard that on the 14" wheel, the fronts should be 22 mm offset, and the rears 17mm offset - or expect some body rubbing on some wheel well surface. http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-wheel8.asp The Panasport wheels on Jerry Vanderpool's beautiful red Tiger are: 16 inch wheel diameter, and they are available in 15 inch. http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/vanderpool_j/default.asp There are a lot of comments on Panasport wheels in the Techtips section, but can be directly found in the Search Engine (Magnifying Glass on every page at the top header). "Panasport" would be a good search key. Steve __ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > I just received some Panasports from Dale A. The bolt spacing is supposed > to be 4.5" and these are marked 108mm. I may not be the best in metric > conversion but I think 4.5" should be around 114.3mm. They slide over the wheels > studs okay, but are these going to work? The studs won't be perfectly centered > in the holes. I don't want something that is going to vibrate or bump...or > be unsafe. > Mark L. From CoolVT at aol.com Fri Aug 15 14:24:35 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:24:35 EDT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: I figured sooner or later with all the "clone" and "tribute" cars that the Tiger would be coming up sometime. I can hear it now, "Hey, is that a real Tiger?" Mark _http://tuscaloosa.craigslist.org/cto/793203099.html_ (http://tuscaloosa.craigslist.org/cto/793203099.html) **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri Aug 15 14:39:24 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:39:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A5E97C.4060207@SoCal.rr.com> Mark, What the heck is a "/*tiger # 395 engine and drive train*/"? And it's a 289 V8? Maybe a Mk II? Anyway, it is nice to see that "Original" Tigers are selling for $60,00.00, and he only wants $20,000.00 for an Alger! Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > I figured sooner or later with all the "clone" and "tribute" cars that the > Tiger would be coming up sometime. I can hear it now, "Hey, is that a real > Tiger?" > Mark From srekate at pacifier.com Fri Aug 15 14:43:22 2008 From: srekate at pacifier.com (Scott Rekate) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:43:22 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigerbits Message-ID: <880CCE2F-16C0-4772-BF0D-ED8EFDBCFD14@pacifier.com> Went to look at a bookmark I had for tigerbits.org but the page came up empty. Does anyone know what happened to it? Scott From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 15:33:09 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:33:09 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Tigerbits In-Reply-To: <880CCE2F-16C0-4772-BF0D-ED8EFDBCFD14@pacifier.com> References: <880CCE2F-16C0-4772-BF0D-ED8EFDBCFD14@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808151433yf7e80a2wddab50a8fe8761f5@mail.gmail.com> apologies. its back now. On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Scott Rekate wrote: > Went to look at a bookmark I had for tigerbits.org but the page came > up empty. Does anyone know what happened to it? > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From laurin212 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 16 09:04:53 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] brake lights question Message-ID: <144154.84328.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> hey guys - i am out of town this weekend with my tiger, and dont have my shop manual...and this is a silly question, but my brake lights (both) have stopped working, but the tail lights still work. i am guessing it probably is the switch, but where is the switch located? is it a mechanical switch on the pedal, or a hydraulic switch in the brake lines somewhere? what is it that typically fails? also, is there the shop manual somewhere online, maybe the tigersunited site somewhere i couldnt find? thks peter From CoolVT at aol.com Sat Aug 16 09:14:05 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 11:14:05 EDT Subject: [Tigers] brake lights question Message-ID: Peter, If it's stock, it's a hydraulic switch located at the brake line junction just under the generator. It will have a wire connected to it with a spade terminal. M **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From rfraser at bluefrog.com Sat Aug 16 10:18:14 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:18:14 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] brake lights question In-Reply-To: <144154.84328.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c8ffbb$b11a30b0$52951840@ronpc1> Peter This is a hydraulic switch on a 5 way "T" fitting with a green and green/ purple wire; located in the engine bay, front right. Generally the switch goes bad but you need to check that with a volt/ ohm meter. Check for good ground and check the wire connectors at the left kick panel. Since you have tail lights the ground is probably good but it is one of those things you should always check. Also check to make sure the brake light filaments have not blown. For some reason silicon brake fluid does not agree with these switches and they will fail at least once a year. These switches have I believe it's 3/8" x24 thread; not the pipe thread type that most auto stores carry. I installed a mechanical switch on the brake pedal to eliminate that problem and it was necessary when I installed cruise control. The mechanical switch gives a quicker more positive connection to the brake lights; not the sometimes vague or no brake light reaction to light brake pressure. A safety issue as I see it. Yes the Shop manual is online. http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/wsm1.asp Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Peter Laurinaitis Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 11:05 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] brake lights question hey guys - i am out of town this weekend with my tiger, and dont have my shop manual...and this is a silly question, but my brake lights (both) have stopped working, but the tail lights still work. i am guessing it probably is the switch, but where is the switch located? is it a mechanical switch on the pedal, or a hydraulic switch in the brake lines somewhere? what is it that typically fails? also, is there the shop manual somewhere online, maybe the tigersunited site somewhere i couldnt find? thks peter You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1614 - Release Date: 8/15/2008 5:29 PM From srwick at hotmail.com Sat Aug 16 11:23:04 2008 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:23:04 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Rear end colors References: <000001c8fe23$759d6960$43b11840@ronpc1> <48A4EB6C.7020206@mayfco.com> Message-ID: I've finished bead blasting the rear end and am starting to paint. The only reason I can see they may have used glyptal is because the casting for the center section is so rough. Maybe they wanted to seal all the pits and crevices so dirt wouldn't accumulate. Plus, why would they have a small hole drilled in an axle tube for a breather and not put a fitting on it for a hose to go to a frame rail or something? Steve (scratching head over British engineering) ----- Original Message ----- From: drmayf To: steve wick Cc: 'tigers' Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Rear end colors And quite frankly the glyptal I have is not the same color as what is supposed to be on the rear end. Plus, I do not know why they would put it on the outside as the stuff was made to go inside transformers and such because normal paint failed in oil filled ones. So I looked at my spare rear end and it is stock and it is not the same color. More like a read lead primer. But whatever... mayf From dave at munroe.ca Sat Aug 16 12:02:53 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:02:53 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Ignition Timing a Stroker 289 Message-ID: <1175355524-1218909971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111692094-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hi guys; Is there a formula, or some other way to determine the correct ignition timing for a Stroked 289? Mine is now a 331, and it seems to me the timing should be different from stock to optimize performance. Thanks for any insight you can provide... Dave Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network From wsamouce at kc.rr.com Sat Aug 16 15:49:21 2008 From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:49:21 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Just received Bob Mannel's Book In-Reply-To: <1175355524-1218909971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111692094-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1175355524-1218909971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111692094-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000001c8ffe9$f1503ed0$d3f0bc70$@rr.com> What a great book. I highly recommend it. I am happy to learn that my 260 heads have the larger 289 valves. I believe all of the Tiger 260's should being that they are all 1964 engines. Question - Does anyone have experience installing a C3OZ-6250-C (289 HiPo Mechanical) or C9OZ-6250-C (289 HiPo Hydraulic) cam in their 260? I have the F4B manifold and for barrel, seems that one of these cams would work great with my engine and get me into the 200 HP range. I do need to check what cam is currently in the engine first though. Any input would be great. Duke B382002037 From drmayf at mayfco.com Sat Aug 16 18:10:05 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:10:05 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Headed out in the morning... Message-ID: <48A76C5D.2070103@mayfco.com> Well, folk, the wife and I will be headed out bright and early (yeah, right) at approximaely 4 am headed to the great white salt dyno. I hope we have everything, and evertyhing is ready to go. We will not monitor the drmayf at mayfco.com email but will check my yahoo account daily, hopefully...that is drmayf at yahoo.com should any of you feel the need to get in touch with me. mayf From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Sat Aug 16 18:27:35 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:27:35 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Headed out in the morning... Message-ID: Go get um TIGER. In a message dated 8/16/2008 5:12:28 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, drmayf at mayfco.com writes: Well, folk, the wife and I will be headed out bright and early (yeah, right) at approximaely 4 am headed to the great white salt dyno. I hope we have everything, and evertyhing is ready to go. We will not monitor the drmayf at mayfco.com email but will check my yahoo account daily, hopefully...that is drmayf at yahoo.com should any of you feel the need to get in touch with me. mayf You are subscribed as aaaglasss at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From bobdixon at frii.com Sun Aug 17 09:47:04 2008 From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 09:47:04 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] LAT hood for sale?? References: <1175355524-1218909971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111692094-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <000001c8ffe9$f1503ed0$d3f0bc70$@rr.com> Message-ID: <000a01c90080$7f177f30$07fd7f0a@BobsDell> Does anyone have a LAT hood they would like to sell me? My Tiger is a week or so from primer. Thanks, Bob From dylanberry at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 17 20:04:37 2008 From: dylanberry at sbcglobal.net (dylanberry at sbcglobal.net) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:04:37 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dale A has carbon fiber repos for sale Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: tigers-request at autox.team.net Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:00:02 To: Subject: Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 Send Tigers mailing list submissions to tigers at autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to tigers-request at autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at tigers-owner at autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." From sganz at pacbell.net Sun Aug 17 23:39:36 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Auctions Message-ID: <358651.35000.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just pulled back in from Monterey, and saw a Tiger that didn't sell at auction. I think the Reserve was 75K, and it got into the low 60's. I'm a bit fuzzy as It's late, I have some pics of it as well. Sandy From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon Aug 18 03:01:26 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:01:26 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 In-Reply-To: <20080818020531.DF5B41878C7@autox.team.net> References: <20080818020531.DF5B41878C7@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <39a841b0808180201s61965a19o803db5160a701258@mail.gmail.com> the thread has been lost, repros of what? On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 3:04 AM, wrote: > Dale A has carbon fiber repos for sale > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-request at autox.team.net > > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:00:02 > To: > Subject: Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 > > > Send Tigers mailing list submissions to > tigers at autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tigers-request at autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tigers-owner at autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Tigers digest..." > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From cmccann at lwpb.com Mon Aug 18 07:08:43 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:08:43 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 In-Reply-To: <39a841b0808180201s61965a19o803db5160a701258@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080818020531.DF5B41878C7@autox.team.net> <39a841b0808180201s61965a19o803db5160a701258@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECA9A3@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> M. Cullen McCann, Assoc. AIA Project Manager T Direct 405 470 4912 Owain, I assumed it was in response to the search for a LAT hood, but the subject line was totally different....plus I don't see a carbon fiber Lat Hood on Dale's website...if there are CF LAT hoods available, somebody please tell me how much they cost...I have an original Tiger Technology Lat hood, never installed for my car someday, ( not for sale) but would be curious to know what a Carbon Hood costs in comparison... Cullen 1452 LROFE Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 the thread has been lost, repros of what? From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Mon Aug 18 07:49:16 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:49:16 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F207@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> The guy who makes carbon fiber LAT hoods is Kent Wilcox. He's in the LA area but I forget exactly where. Cost is pretty reasonable (although I forget exactly how much - in the $600- $700 range I think) because his mold and the hoods that come out of it are excellent. Only problem is that he's very busy and I don't think you can get a hood from him in less than a couple of months. That all sounded pretty nebulous when I re-read it, so I Googled and found a 10 year old location and phone number: Kent works (worked) for Aerodyne in Santee. His work number is (was) 619-448-6700, home number (619) 449-8764. Cheers, Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cullen McCann Sent: August 18, 2008 7:09 AM To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com; dylanberry at sbcglobal.net Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 M. Cullen McCann, Assoc. AIA Project Manager T Direct 405 470 4912 Owain, I assumed it was in response to the search for a LAT hood, but the subject line was totally different....plus I don't see a carbon fiber Lat Hood on Dale's website...if there are CF LAT hoods available, somebody please tell me how much they cost...I have an original Tiger Technology Lat hood, never installed for my car someday, ( not for sale) but would be curious to know what a Carbon Hood costs in comparison... Cullen 1452 LROFE From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Mon Aug 18 12:20:31 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:20:31 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Auctions In-Reply-To: <358651.35000.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <358651.35000.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48A9BD6F.2080209@SoCal.rr.com> Sandy, & Tigers, The Russo and Steele auction lists a 1965 Tiger (VIN: B9470741) and can be seen at their site: Tiger at Russo and Steele The R&M Monterey Auction does not list a Sunbeam, but the auction entries and prices can be seen at: RM Monterey Auction Results Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Sandy Ganz wrote: > Just pulled back in from Monterey, and saw a Tiger that didn't sell at auction. I think the Reserve was 75K, and it got into the low 60's. I'm a bit fuzzy as It's late, I have some pics of it as well. > Sandy From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 18 13:10:15 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:10:15 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Auctions Message-ID: http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1965_sunbeam_tiger__coupe/39-1012. html Wow, there aren't many cars in that Russo group that would go under $50,000. I would think the majority should be over $100,000. It will be interesting to see what the Tiger brings in that company. Any guesses? One strange thing, and I definitely don't want to start us picking this thing apart, but there appears to my eyes to be two different kinds of rivets holding on the vin plate. Someone on the list said that they had done a pretty complete study of rivets. What's the answer on that one? M **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From sganz at pacbell.net Mon Aug 18 13:24:39 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Auctions Message-ID: <144158.15286.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The tiger did not sell. It was still available the next day. Read the description, 289, full sized Ford rear, etc. I didn't have a lot of time to poke around, a few pics are up, not much better then what is on the Russo and Steele site. This is the link to the FLog with the picture link. I think the Tiger pics are in the Monterey Historics Section. Might be a bit out of order. The Bid ended up at 67.5k with a 75k Reserve. http://gtsparkplugs.com/blog/2008/08/13/pebble-beach-monterey-historics-and-t he-italiano-concorso/ Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: "CoolVT at aol.com" To: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com; sganz at pacbell.net Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 12:10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Monterey Auctions http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1965_sunbeam_tiger__coupe/39-1012 .html Wow, there aren't many cars in that Russo group that would go under $50,000. I would think the majority should be over $100,000. It will be interesting to see what the Tiger brings in that company. Any guesses? One strange thing, and I definitely don't want to start us picking this thing apart, but there appears to my eyes to be two different kinds of rivets holding on the vin plate. Someone on the list said that they had done a pretty complete study of rivets. What's the answer on that one? M ________________________________ Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 18 13:41:23 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:41:23 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Auctions Message-ID: 67.5 seems like a pretty good price for that considering that it's not a concours resoration. I guess someone has their expectations up. Just think, 5 yrs. from now we'll be saying how cheap that 75K reserve was;-) Mark **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 19:24:40 2008 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] SAN DIEGO BRITISH CAR DAY - Sunday, October 5, 2008 Message-ID: <1517616.1219109080251.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> 29th ANNUAL SAN DIEGO BRITISH CAR DAY Sunday, October 5, 2008 San Diego British Car Day Website at: www.sandiegobritishcarday.org Twenty eight years ago, a hearty band of British car enthusiasts got together over picnics at a park to view each othersb cars, and enjoy each othersb friendship. This year, we begin to return to that heritage. Over the past 28 years the event has grown considerably and now attracts participants from all over California and beyond. We are proud that this event has become one of the premier British car shows in California. In the past few years, we have incurred considerable additional expenses relating to, among other things, permits and insurance. Thus, starting this year, we have made some changes in keeping with the original spirit of the event. For instance, there will be no program or raffle at this yearbs show. Also, due to the increased expenses, we have had to increase our registration fees by $5.00. We continue to provide a wonderful experience, including a variety of vendors, Hoggbs Beach BBQ, the very popular Cameron Highlander Bagpipers and over 400 diverse English cars for your viewing pleasure. The San Diego British Car Club Council is a California nonprofit mutual benefit corporation. OCTOBER 5th EVENT SCHEDULE 7:30 b 10:00 Registration -- Park in your Marque area as directed/signed 10:00 b 3:00 Cars on display 11:30 b 12:00 Judging for best b Classic Elegantb English picnic 12:00 Ballots must be presented to the Club ballot boxes for cars of choice. Clubs count the ballots and turn in at the Judging boothbb on the hillb by the Minis 12:00 b 2:00 Picnic or Lunch at your leisure . . . and please pick up your trash! 12:30 Ballots MUST be turned into the Judging booth 2:00 Awards presentation 3:00 to ??? Enjoy the rest of the day . . . exit carefully please ADDITIONAL INFORMATION On the above event, or any particular Club or marque in attendance today b most have Web pages, and can be linked by going to the San Diego British Car Day Website at: www.sandiegobritishcarday.org or by calling the information line: 760-746-1458 Pre-Registration Fee: $20.00 per car Make Check Payable to: BCCC MAIL BY SEPT. 12th to: San Diego British Car Club Council P. O. Box 710131 San Diego, CA 92171-0131 QUESTIONS? Please call San Diego British Car Day Information Line: 760 - 746 - 1458 www.sandiegobritishcarday.org Thank you! From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 19:58:18 2008 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Tigers] Correct info - SAN DIEGO BRITISH CAR DAY - Sunday, October 5, 2008 Message-ID: <3012860.1219111098208.JavaMail.root@elwamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Dear Folks, Sorry but the recent publication of the info about the San Diego British Car Meet was a confused communication that is totally wrong - Hope you don't mind deleting the first one I sent and pay attention to this one. Sorry about the confusion - thanks for your understanding ... Rick Feibusch British Car Network - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 29th San Diego British Car Day and Picnic Admiral Baker Field, San Diego, CA Sunday, October 5, 2008 San Diego British Car Day Website at: www.sandiegobritishcarday.org Twenty-nine years ago, a hearty band of British car enthusiasts got together over picnics at a park to view each otherbs cars, and enjoy each otherbs friendship. This year, we return to that heritage. Over the past 29 years the event has grown considerably and now attracts participants from all over California and beyond. We are proud that this event has become one of the premier British car shows in California. In the past few years, we have incurred considerable additional expenses relating to, among other things, forming a corporation, and insurance. Thus, we have made some changes in keeping with the original spirit of the event. For instance, there will be no vendors, program or raffle at this yearbs show. We continue to provide a wonderful experience, the very popular Cameron Highlander Bagpipers and over 400 diverse English cars for your viewing pleasure. Have a Great Day!! Pre-Registration Fee: $20.00 per car Make Check Payable to: BCCC MAIL BY SEPT. 12th to: San Diego British Car Club Council P. O. Box 710131 San Diego, CA 92171-0131 QUESTIONS? Please call San Diego British Car Day Information Line: 760 - 746 - 1458 www.sandiegobritishcarday.org Thank you! From todbrown at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 18 20:58:48 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:58:48 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Part No. for Ballast Resistor Message-ID: <48AA36E8.2080807@roadrunner.com> I know this was covered recently, but I can't find it. Does anyone have the part number for the ballast resistor and a good source as well? TIA. Tod B382002384LRXFE From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 18 21:07:52 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:07:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Speedometer Message-ID: About 10 yrs. back I had my speedo repaired, but it never worked correctly because the transmission drive gear was shot. Gears are now new, cable good and odometer works fine, but the speedo needle will go up to around 30 mph and not go any higher. Now is this problem something that I could correct at home or should I send it out to an expert? Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From laurin212 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 18 23:40:22 2008 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:40:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Part No. for Ballast Resistor References: <48AA36E8.2080807@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <002c01c901be$12fd6460$6501a8c0@PETERHOME> i think napaonline.com Item: Ignition Coil Resistor Product Number: ECHICR10 Price: 9.49 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tod Brown" To: Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 10:58 PM Subject: [Tigers] Part No. for Ballast Resistor > I know this was covered recently, but I can't find it. > Does anyone have the part number for the ballast resistor and a good > source as well? From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue Aug 19 11:48:01 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:48:01 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Part No. for Ballast Resistor In-Reply-To: <48AA36E8.2080807@roadrunner.com> References: <48AA36E8.2080807@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <48AB0751.10301@SoCal.rr.com> Tod, The Rootes Publication of the Tiger Parts List (Section WF) specifies *Ford B7A-12250-A*. The complete Electrical System portion can be found in this *Electrical Equipment* Parts List link. The *entire* document is found at The Rootes Parts List . Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Tod Brown wrote: > I know this was covered recently, but I can't find it. > Does anyone have the part number for the ballast resistor and a good > source as well? > TIA. > Tod > B382002384LRXFE From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 19 12:59:57 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:59:57 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last Message-ID: <31886791.30001219172397981.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02> I wrote this up yesterday morning but it seems to have been lost in cyberspace. After searching for a car for months I now have one. At least I will when the truck delivers it next week. I purchased #B9473720 LROFE from Carroll Eeds last Sunday. I would like to say a big thanks to Andy Walker who put Carroll and I in touch. Also to Patrick King and Mike Laurence who looked at pictures to help advise me and most of all to Norm Miller who has been patient and willing to take time to share info on every car I asked him about. This car being an LRO car was most certainly originally sold in Europe carrying Alpine 260 badges and Alpine script. I've said a few times that my interest is in staying completely stock. It has the Alpine 260 badges. We'll see how serious I am. It will be hard to remove the Tiger script on it now and replace with Alpine but I think I can do it. How ironic after allthe effort to learn about and avoid Algers to finally end up with a factory built Tiger that properly should wear Alpine script. I hope I can manage to do as well with the car as Carroll has for the 34 years he's owned it. Heres a couple pictures..... http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/LT%20FRN%20QRTR2.jpg http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/INT%20THU%20DOOR.jpg http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/ENGINE%20FRM%20RT.jpg http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/ALPINE%20260%20BADGE.jpg Steve Ralsten From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 13:10:20 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:10:20 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last In-Reply-To: <31886791.30001219172397981.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02> References: <31886791.30001219172397981.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02> Message-ID: <39a841b0808191210m1c3fb947k191f696d6ab862f1@mail.gmail.com> congratulations! its looks like a lovely example. On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 7:59 PM, wrote: > I wrote this up yesterday morning but it seems to have been lost in cyberspace. > > After searching for a car for months I now have one. At least I will when the truck delivers it next week. I purchased #B9473720 LROFE from Carroll Eeds last Sunday. I would like to say a big thanks to Andy Walker who put Carroll and I in touch. Also to Patrick King and Mike Laurence who looked at pictures to help advise me and most of all to Norm Miller who has been patient and willing to take time to share info on every car I asked him about. > > This car being an LRO car was most certainly originally sold in Europe carrying Alpine 260 badges and Alpine script. I've said a few times that my interest is in staying completely stock. It has the Alpine 260 badges. We'll see how serious I am. It will be hard to remove the Tiger script on it now and replace with Alpine but I think I can do it. > > How ironic after allthe effort to learn about and avoid Algers to finally end up with a factory built Tiger that properly should wear Alpine script. > > I hope I can manage to do as well with the car as Carroll has for the 34 years he's owned it. Heres a couple pictures..... > > http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/LT%20FRN%20QRTR2.jpg > > http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/INT%20THU%20DOOR.jpg > > http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/ENGINE%20FRM%20RT.jpg > > http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/ALPINE%20260%20BADGE.jpg > > Steve Ralsten > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 19 13:46:24 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:46:24 EDT Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last Message-ID: Steve, Congratulations. That is a great looking car! Mark L **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From tgrrr at peoplepc.com Tue Aug 19 14:16:19 2008 From: tgrrr at peoplepc.com (Bob Hokanson) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:16:19 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Column Drop Message-ID: <002601c90238$72db0430$371af304@bob> Listers, Am I correct in recalling that there were 2 different sets of steering column support brackets? That a production change provided a shorter under-dash column support that raised the upper steering column and provided more "lap room" under the wheel? Question is: When did that change take place? Mk 1A? Mk II? Was there a similar change in the Alpine? Bob H From awtiger at cox.net Tue Aug 19 14:19:28 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:19:28 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last In-Reply-To: <31886791.30001219172397981.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02> Message-ID: <20080819161928.MIV8R.140969.imail@eastrmwml10> Hey, Steve: Well, what can I say other than congratulations! I must say that it's a bittersweet experience for me, as I know it will be for Carroll the first time he walks out to his garage and the Tiger is not there. Carroll's Tiger (ahem..."your" Tiger) was the car that always made me strive for perfection on my own Tiger. I met Carroll for the first time at a car show in October of '78 and that was my first exposure to his car. I was bitten and smitten...lock, stock and barrel...I had to have a Tiger!! I can't tell you how many times I've uttered those famous words, "Carroll, make sure you call me first if you ever want to sell your Tiger." It's just too bad for me that he waited as long as he did to decide to part with it. I know, however, that he got a lot of fun out of it and has some really great memories. I know I'll always have warm feelings for "ol' Red." Congrats again! Please take care of her and don't hesitate to let me know if I can ever do anything for you. Best of luck, Andy ---- sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote: > I wrote this up yesterday morning but it seems to have been lost in cyberspace. > > After searching for a car for months I now have one. At least I will when the truck delivers it next week. I purchased #B9473720 LROFE from Carroll Eeds last Sunday. I would like to say a big thanks to Andy Walker who put Carroll and I in touch. Also to Patrick King and Mike Laurence who looked at pictures to help advise me and most of all to Norm Miller who has been patient and willing to take time to share info on every car I asked him about. > > This car being an LRO car was most certainly originally sold in Europe carrying Alpine 260 badges and Alpine script. I've said a few times that my interest is in staying completely stock. It has the Alpine 260 badges. We'll see how serious I am. It will be hard to remove the Tiger script on it now and replace with Alpine but I think I can do it. > > How ironic after allthe effort to learn about and avoid Algers to finally end up with a factory built Tiger that properly should wear Alpine script. > > I hope I can manage to do as well with the car as Carroll has for the 34 years he's owned it. Heres a couple pictures..... > > http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/LT%20FRN%20QRTR2.jpg > > http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/INT%20THU%20DOOR.jpg > > http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/ENGINE%20FRM%20RT.jpg > > http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/ALPINE%20260%20BADGE.jpg > > Steve Ralsten > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From achd73 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 19 14:24:26 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last In-Reply-To: <31886791.30001219172397981.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02> Message-ID: <836034.3818.qm@web30307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Stve- Im curious about the Mk1A waist rolls on the doors- I thought those came on only 1a model cars. Perhaps since it is an lro car or a late Mk1 it came from the factory w/ the waist rolls. Since you want to stay stock and orginal, I thought I would point that out. Does anyone have information as to when waist rolls where added. I dont remember ever seeing a Mk1 with them - not that that means that the factory didnt install them on some Mk1 cars. I would think you to be very lucky indeed to have foubnd a car as nice as this one appers with the vin number making it even more special. CONGRATULATIONS and welcome to being addicted to the Sunbeam family. TonytheTiger --- On Tue, 8/19/08, sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote: From cmccann at lwpb.com Tue Aug 19 14:36:33 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:36:33 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last In-Reply-To: <31886791.30001219172397981.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02> References: <31886791.30001219172397981.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECAD5F@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Congrats Steve. I've seen this car in person, and it is a fantastic example indeed...good choice! Cullen From drmoonstone at aol.com Tue Aug 19 15:20:40 2008 From: drmoonstone at aol.com (drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:20:40 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECA9A3@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> References: <20080818020531.DF5B41878C7@autox.team.net> <39a841b0808180201s61965a19o803db5160a701258@mail.gmail.com> <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECA9A3@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Message-ID: <8CAD05890926E30-C70-682@webmail-nc05.sysops.aol.com> Talked with Dale last week and he indicated that the CF hood would be over $1200.00/$1400.00 and he still wanted to make some improvements to the equipment. Moonstone -----Original Message----- From: Cullen McCann To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com ; dylanberry at sbcglobal.net Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 6:08 am Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 M. Cullen McCann, Assoc. AIA Project Manager T Direct 405 470 4912 Owain, I assumed it was in response to the search for a LAT hood, but the subject line was totally different....plus I don't see a carbon fiber Lat Hood on Dale's website...if there are CF LAT hoods available, somebody please tell me how much they cost...I have an original Tiger Technology Lat hood, never installed for my car someday, ( not for sale) but would be curious to know what a Carbon Hood costs in comparison... Cullen 1452 LROFE Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 the thread has been lost, repros of what? You are subscribed as drmoonstone at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From cmccann at lwpb.com Tue Aug 19 15:31:14 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:31:14 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 In-Reply-To: <8CAD05890926E30-C70-682@webmail-nc05.sysops.aol.com> References: <20080818020531.DF5B41878C7@autox.team.net> <39a841b0808180201s61965a19o803db5160a701258@mail.gmail.com> <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECA9A3@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> <8CAD05890926E30-C70-682@webmail-nc05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECADA8@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Oh, well that's not bad, think I'll take 3 just to be safe... ;) Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 Talked with Dale last week and he indicated that the CF hood would be over $1200.00/$1400.00 and he still wanted to make some improvements to the equipment. Moonstone From wseay at embarqmail.com Tue Aug 19 16:33:05 2008 From: wseay at embarqmail.com (Will Seay) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:33:05 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last References: <31886791.30001219172397981.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02> Message-ID: <5D742302A270491AA10E2C3C93D71FB6@xpseay> Congratulations! Looks like a very nice car. - Will B382001570LRXFE ____________________________ Will Seay wseay at embarqmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:59 PM Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last I wrote this up yesterday morning but it seems to have been lost in cyberspace. After searching for a car for months I now have one. At least I will when the truck delivers it next week. I purchased #B9473720 LROFE from Carroll Eeds last Sunday. I would like to say a big thanks to Andy Walker who put Carroll and I in touch. Also to Patrick King and Mike Laurence who looked at pictures to help advise me and most of all to Norm Miller who has been patient and willing to take time to share info on every car I asked him about. This car being an LRO car was most certainly originally sold in Europe carrying Alpine 260 badges and Alpine script. I've said a few times that my interest is in staying completely stock. It has the Alpine 260 badges. We'll see how serious I am. It will be hard to remove the Tiger script on it now and replace with Alpine but I think I can do it. How ironic after allthe effort to learn about and avoid Algers to finally end up with a factory built Tiger that properly should wear Alpine script. I hope I can manage to do as well with the car as Carroll has for the 34 years he's owned it. Heres a couple pictures..... http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/LT%20FRN%20QRTR2.jpg http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/INT%20THU%20DOOR.jpg http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/ENGINE%20FRM%20RT.jpg http://www.mozartforum.com/images/Eeds%20Tiger/ALPINE%20260%20BADGE.jpg Steve Ralsten You are subscribed as wseay at embarqmail.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 19 17:25:42 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:25:42 EDT Subject: [Tigers] 2nd try at this Message-ID: About 10 yrs. back I had my speedo repaired, but it never worked correctly because the transmission drive gear was shot. Gears are now new, cable good and odometer works fine, but the speedo needle will go up to around 30 mph and not go any higher. Now is this problem something that I could correct at home or should I send it out to an expert? Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From amberlychamberlain at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 19 17:59:55 2008 From: amberlychamberlain at sbcglobal.net (Amberly Chamberlain) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] rear leaf springs Message-ID: <262975.81011.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Gent's Anyone have a set of newer leaf springs for sale? Just wanted to ask the list before I went to Dale or Tiger engineering to decide the right leaf springs for my tiger. Any suggestions are appreciated. Cheers, frank From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 18:14:07 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:14:07 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] ebay tiger scams Message-ID: Ok, i liek most of us am addicted to ebay.. great place to find those parts we need and pay way to much for them. I have noticed a trend lately of people who put parts on ebay claiming they are "correct tiger" parts when in fact they are alpine parts. I email these people and they generally reposnd in a rather unacceptable manner after being informed why the part is not correct. They do not change their listing, or even acknowledge that there is an issue. here are some examples: Item Title: Early Sunbeam Tiger Clock Item Number: 140256650054 Item URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140256650054 This is infact a S3/IV alpine clock.. it cas the incorect part numbers on the face and wrong earthing.. after telling the seller this.. i got this response: *The clock I'm selling is correct for Tiger, AFTER you replace the movement with Quartz Movement.The housing and numbers are correct for tiger the only difference is the wording at the top. The previous wording at the top means nothing.Because most original clocks dont work.When you send in this clock to be redone, the new silk screening with read for neg earth at the top.* Great so after you replace everything and rebuild it the clock will look like a tiger clock.. not to mention that tiger clocks are not a quartz movement.. and it would still not be one. Also why not tell everyone the above in the listing? Item Title: SUNBEAM ALPINE/TIGER SPEEDOMETER Item Number: 150285090807 Item URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150285090807 This is an alpine speedo, i told the seller that the alpine speedo heads are different to a tigers and that they have a different cabel, the response i got: *But you could change the cable and make it work, I have a Tiger!* Ok.. sure.. then you have a 120mph speedo and have spent a bucket making it work in a tiger.. why not put this in the lising? People need to be careful.. and sellers should be a little more open and honest. -- Regards Michael King From DJoh797014 at aol.com Tue Aug 19 18:29:10 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:29:10 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Column Drop Message-ID: The raised steering column was a MK II featured change. Dave In a message dated 8/19/2008 3:16:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tgrrr at peoplepc.com writes: Listers, Am I correct in recalling that there were 2 different sets of steering column support brackets? That a production change provided a shorter under-dash column support that raised the upper steering column and provided more "lap room" under the wheel? Question is: When did that change take place? Mk 1A? Mk II? Was there a similar change in the Alpine? Bob H You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From DJoh797014 at aol.com Tue Aug 19 18:32:20 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:32:20 EDT Subject: [Tigers] A Tiger at last Message-ID: According to the BON, GT door treatments be stock with B9473100 on. Dave In a message dated 8/19/2008 3:25:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, achd73 at yahoo.com writes: Stve- Im curious about the Mk1A waist rolls on the doors- I thought those came on only 1a model cars. Perhaps since it is an lro car or a late Mk1 it came from the factory w/ the waist rolls. Since you want to stay stock and orginal, I thought I would point that out. Does anyone have information as to when waist rolls where added. I dont remember ever seeing a Mk1 with them - not that that means that the factory didnt install them on some Mk1 cars. I would think you to be very lucky indeed to have foubnd a car as nice as this one appers with the vin number making it even more special. CONGRATULATIONS and welcome to being addicted to the Sunbeam family. TonytheTiger --- On Tue, 8/19/08, sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote: You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Tue Aug 19 20:01:54 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:01:54 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] rear leaf springs In-Reply-To: <262975.81011.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <262975.81011.qm@web81503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48AB7B12.70801@SoCal.rr.com> Frank, Be careful, here. I have seen "replacement" springs that are not the correct number, thickness, spring rate, or curve of the originals. While you may like dragging your tailpipe, or looking like your rear-end has been "jacked-up", you MAY NOT! ;-) Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Amberly Chamberlain wrote: > Gent's > > Anyone have a set of newer leaf springs for sale? Just wanted to ask the list before I went to Dale or Tiger engineering to decide the right leaf springs for my tiger. Any suggestions are appreciated. > > > Cheers, > > frank From bobdixon at frii.com Tue Aug 19 21:27:18 2008 From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:27:18 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] LAT hood for sale?? References: <1175355524-1218909971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111692094-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><000001c8ffe9$f1503ed0$d3f0bc70$@rr.com> <000a01c90080$7f177f30$07fd7f0a@BobsDell> Message-ID: <001601c90274$a6a91310$4100a8c0@BobsDell> Thanks for all the responses. I ordered one from Dale (no, not carbon fiber). -Bob From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net Tue Aug 19 22:14:17 2008 From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:14:17 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 References: <20080818020531.DF5B41878C7@autox.team.net> <39a841b0808180201s61965a19o803db5160a701258@mail.gmail.com> <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECA9A3@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> <8CAD05890926E30-C70-682@webmail-nc05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002601c9027b$36d9dbd0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> And I talked to Dale yesterday and he quoted CF at $1200 with $700 the price for fiberglass. Kent is still at $500 for fiberglass. Buck Trippel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 > Talked with Dale last week and he indicated that the CF hood would be over > $1200.00/$1400.00 and he still wanted to make some improvements to the > equipment. > > Moonstone > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cullen McCann > To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com ; > dylanberry at sbcglobal.net > Cc: tigers at autox.team.net > Sent: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 6:08 am > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 > > > > M. Cullen McCann, Assoc. AIA > Project Manager > > T Direct 405 470 4912 > > > Owain, > > I assumed it was in response to the search for a LAT hood, but the subject > line was totally different....plus I don't see a carbon fiber Lat Hood on > Dale's website...if there are CF LAT hoods available, somebody please tell > me > how much they cost...I have an original Tiger Technology Lat hood, never > installed for my car someday, ( not for sale) but would be curious to know > what a Carbon Hood costs in comparison... > > Cullen > 1452 LROFE > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 > > the thread has been lost, > repros of what? > You are subscribed as drmoonstone at aol.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as bucktrippel at verizon.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue Aug 19 22:18:22 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:18:22 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 In-Reply-To: <002601c9027b$36d9dbd0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> References: <20080818020531.DF5B41878C7@autox.team.net> <39a841b0808180201s61965a19o803db5160a701258@mail.gmail.com> <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECA9A3@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> <8CAD05890926E30-C70-682@webmail-nc05.sysops.aol.com> <002601c9027b$36d9dbd0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: Ok, So are dales a good fit.. do they use stock mounting hardware? On 20/08/2008, Buck Trippel wrote: > > And I talked to Dale yesterday and he quoted CF at $1200 with $700 the > price > for fiberglass. Kent is still at $500 for fiberglass. > > Buck Trippel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; ; > > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 > > > > Talked with Dale last week and he indicated that the CF hood would be > over > > $1200.00/$1400.00 and he still wanted to make some improvements to the > > equipment. > > > > Moonstone > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cullen McCann > > To: owain.lloyd at gmail.com ; > > dylanberry at sbcglobal.net > > Cc: tigers at autox.team.net > > Sent: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 6:08 am > > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 > > > > > > > > M. Cullen McCann, Assoc. AIA > > Project Manager > > > > T Direct 405 470 4912 > > > > > > Owain, > > > > I assumed it was in response to the search for a LAT hood, but the > subject > > line was totally different....plus I don't see a carbon fiber Lat Hood on > > Dale's website...if there are CF LAT hoods available, somebody please > tell > > me > > how much they cost...I have an original Tiger Technology Lat hood, never > > installed for my car someday, ( not for sale) but would be curious to > know > > what a Carbon Hood costs in comparison... > > > > Cullen > > 1452 LROFE > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 340 > > > > the thread has been lost, > > repros of what? > > You are subscribed as drmoonstone at aol.com > > > > Tigers at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > You are subscribed as bucktrippel at verizon.net > > > > Tigers at autox.team.net > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as michael.s.king at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > -- Regards Michael King From cburruss at hiwaay.net Tue Aug 19 22:55:35 2008 From: cburruss at hiwaay.net (Jim & Carolyn Burruss) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:55:35 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition Message-ID: Will the Pertronix electronic ignition drive the stock Tiger tach? Many thanks. Jim Burruss From lists at brits-n-pieces.com Wed Aug 20 00:42:58 2008 From: lists at brits-n-pieces.com (Brits'n'Pieces (Eric Frenken)) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:42:58 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] 2nd try at this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Mark, have you ever tried 2nd gear? Sorry, couldn't resist. Best regards Eric Heinsberg/Germany -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+lists=brits-n-pieces.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+lists=brits-n-pieces.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:26 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] 2nd try at this About 10 yrs. back I had my speedo repaired, but it never worked correctly because the transmission drive gear was shot. Gears are now new, cable good and odometer works fine, but the speedo needle will go up to around 30 mph and not go any higher. Now is this problem something that I could correct at home or should I send it out to an expert? Mark From shutchin at netjets.com Wed Aug 20 00:52:05 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:52:05 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition Message-ID: I have an ignitor II and it seems to work just fine. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 03:19:42 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:19:42 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] ebay tiger scams In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a841b0808200219h218b208y7dfa8176d2b47c16@mail.gmail.com> nothing changes. i've bought a lot of tiger stuff on ebay (many because its easy) and over half of it i've not used as its been either incorrect, too bad condition or broken. unfortunately it remains a large source of many parts and you sometimes get some great bits like my NOS chrome MKII headlight rims in original boxes which were advertised as alpine and not tiger (the last few series V's also had them). On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 1:14 AM, michael king wrote: > Ok, > > i liek most of us am addicted to ebay.. great place to find those parts we > need and pay way to much for them. I have noticed a trend lately of people > who put parts on ebay claiming they are "correct tiger" parts when in fact > they are alpine parts. I email these people and they generally reposnd in a > rather unacceptable manner after being informed why the part is not correct. > They do not change their listing, or even acknowledge that there is an > issue. > > here are some examples: > > Item Title: Early Sunbeam Tiger Clock > Item Number: 140256650054 > Item URL: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140256650054 > > This is infact a S3/IV alpine clock.. it cas the incorect part numbers on > the face and wrong earthing.. after telling the seller this.. i got this > response: > > *The clock I'm selling is correct for Tiger, AFTER you replace the movement > with Quartz Movement.The housing and numbers are correct for tiger the only > difference is the wording at the top. The previous wording at the top means > nothing.Because most original clocks dont work.When you send in this clock > to be redone, the new silk screening with read for neg earth at the top.* > > Great so after you replace everything and rebuild it the clock will look > like a tiger clock.. not to mention that tiger clocks are not a quartz > movement.. and it would still not be one. Also why not tell everyone the > above in the listing? > > > Item Title: > > SUNBEAM ALPINE/TIGER SPEEDOMETER > > Item Number: > > 150285090807 > > Item URL: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150285090807 > > This is an alpine speedo, i told the seller that the alpine speedo heads > are different to a tigers and that they have a different cabel, the response > i got: > > *But you could change the cable and make it work, I have a Tiger!* > > Ok.. sure.. then you have a 120mph speedo and have spent a bucket making it > work in a tiger.. why not put this in the lising? > > People need to be careful.. and sellers should be a little more open and > honest. > > -- > Regards > > Michael King > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 03:33:13 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:33:13 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] repro parts Message-ID: <39a841b0808200233x1660978eo646245894adb5cf3@mail.gmail.com> there are a few items that are particularly hard to find for tigers and i'm considering looking into getting some made in small quantities. i was hoping to both gauge a level of interest from the group and gather suggestions for such parts. 1) the deep GT quarter window bases. should be easy to produce and its very hard to find intact ones. 2) MKII style non-peaked headlight bezels. what else? i also know someone who makes very good quality fiberglass replicas of 30's and 40's cars and apparently the costs and feasibility for the following parts would be quite attractive: 3) a one piece fiberglass front end. great for race cars. 4) a fiberglass replica rear end/roof of a le man tiger (probably more useful for algers and ruining a real tiger). From todbrown at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 20 07:16:01 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:16:01 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition Message-ID: <48AC1911.6000101@roadrunner.com> Jim: I have a Pertronix I setup on my Tiger, using an older Mallory dual-point distributor. It works fine with the stock tach and it also works well with Tom Hall's electronic conversion tach (highly recommended). Tod B382002384LRXFE From brockctella at juno.com Wed Aug 20 07:52:20 2008 From: brockctella at juno.com (Brock Tella) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:52:20 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] British Car Day San Diego Message-ID: <20080820.065221.196.18.BrockCTella@juno.com> Is the same weekend as Cat Eye.Hopefully they can be accommodated. Sent from my laptop located in my kitchen. ____________________________________________________________ Are you Catholic and single? Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oGxthptbsbM3yQesv3HgJDnEjArB1YOxNY7HetJdaWwrbvc/ From rfraser at bluefrog.com Wed Aug 20 11:51:02 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:51:02 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Ignition Timing a Stroker 289 In-Reply-To: <1175355524-1218909971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-111692094-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000001c902ed$54744320$75941840@ronpc1> Dave I did not see a reply to this so here goes. Basically you can set up the ignition timing so it works for the way you drive the car. The stock 289 ignition curve would probably work just fine as long as all parts of the distributor are working correctly and is giving you a good smooth advance curve. The more compression you have the less total advance you can dial in. If the engine knocks; you have to retard the timing or slow down the advance rate. Here is one good article on the subject that may help you. http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/ Hope this helps you Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 2:03 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Ignition Timing a Stroker 289 Hi guys; Is there a formula, or some other way to determine the correct ignition timing for a Stroked 289? Mine is now a 331, and it seems to me the timing should be different from stock to optimize performance. Thanks for any insight you can provide... Dave Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.4/1615 - Release Date: 8/16/2008 7:11 AM From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 20 12:58:13 2008 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tiger Man) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:58:13 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On my car, when the stock ignition was in place, the tach needle would swing upward with higher engine RPM, but it wasn't particularly accurate or probably even very proportional to actual engine RPM. With the Pertronix II, the tach still moves around, but doesn't really correlate at all to actual engine RPM anymore. If I remember right it hangs around 1500-2500 rpm regardless of engine rpm, in fact I think sometimes it actually moves opposite of engine RPM. Hope that helps, Steve > Will the Pertronix electronic ignition drive the stock Tiger tach? > > Many thanks. From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Wed Aug 20 13:07:43 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:07:43 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F212@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> This is because the Pertronix, like most other points-replacement units, has a very long dwell time (the time the coil is being charged) compared to the points, and that messes up the operation of the pulse amplifier in the OEM tach circuit. Tom Hall and I sell and install a replacement electronics module. It installs inside your OEM tach and completely bypasses the original circuitry. It can be driven using the original current-sensing loop (the white wire that powers your Pertronix and coil) for a completely OEM appearance, or you can directly connect MSD, Jacobs, or other aftermarket ignition controllers. Contact me or Tom (modtiger at comcast.net) for more information. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tiger Man Sent: August 20, 2008 12:58 PM To: Jim & Carolyn Burruss; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition On my car, when the stock ignition was in place, the tach needle would swing upward with higher engine RPM, but it wasn't particularly accurate or probably even very proportional to actual engine RPM. With the Pertronix II, the tach still moves around, but doesn't really correlate at all to actual engine RPM anymore. If I remember right it hangs around 1500-2500 rpm regardless of engine rpm, in fact I think sometimes it actually moves opposite of engine RPM. Hope that helps, Steve From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Wed Aug 20 13:11:08 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:11:08 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Message from the Front (drmayf) In-Reply-To: <465209.3162.qm@web57105.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <465209.3162.qm@web57105.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48AC6C4C.4070503@SoCal.rr.com> Dr. Mayfield (drmayf) can't get to the Tiger List, but requested I forward his "Note from the Front" at Bonneville. Our spirits are all with him, and our best wishes. Oh yes, look out for the "other" Sunbeam of Sir Henry Seagrave ;-) Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Lawrence Mayfield wrote: > Steve, can you forward this to the tiger and alpine lists for me?I do > not have an account on this computer and email... > > Well folks, a sorry performance so far. Very sorry indeed. First there > were more competition vehicles than every before and thousnds of > spectators, many with hot rods and rat rods. They come to be a part of > the scene I guess. > > We arrived around noon on SUnday and after seting up the pit area, put > the car in line for tech inspection. We moved one car in an hour and > there were a couple of hundred cars in line to be inspected. So we > pulled the car out of line and back to be inspected on Monday. That > was far far better and we got throught clean even allowing the removal > of the special spin sticker they put on the car last year after the > 175 mph slip slide. > > We packed the chute yesterday after tech/safety and made reeady to put > the car in staging today. That happened and there was only about a 4 - > 5 hour wait, lol... They had three courses this year so that helped > some. As we got near the prestage, I suited up, we put the car into > launch mode and I buckled in. Up to the start line, started the car > when told to and left when directed. Car would not accelerate at all. > Boost went to 10 psig but car just would not go. In fact this is > slower than the very first run the car ever made! And to top it all > off, I failed to record any engine performance data at all. I started > the data logging before launching and some how the data logging got > turned off. So no data on performance at all. So tomorrow, pull the > plugs, look for melted aluminum, maybe do a leakdown test on each > cylinder. And then maybe make another run on the short course just to > get some data to look at. I also for some unknown reason have a failed > Air Fuel recording. My dash mounted unit is reading fine but the > recorded data is 11.96 no matter what, lol... > > So folks it has not been fun so far. Except for the many many new > Sunbeam friends who stopped by and chatted with us. We even get > stopped on the street,in the hotel in restaurants because they had > seen the Nat Geo video. > > In any case,hopefully better info next time! > > mayf From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Wed Aug 20 13:15:30 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:15:30 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Message from the Front (drmayf) Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F213@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> I was just checking the results on www.scta-bni.org and "slower than ever before" for Dr. Mayf is 140 mph... It's all about perspective, eh? Mayf, good luck with the Sunbeam, hopefully you can get the gremlins out! Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Laifman Sent: August 20, 2008 1:11 PM To: Tiger's Den Subject: [Tigers] Message from the Front (drmayf) Dr. Mayfield (drmayf) can't get to the Tiger List, but requested I forward his "Note from the Front" at Bonneville. Our spirits are all with him, and our best wishes. Oh yes, look out for the "other" Sunbeam of Sir Henry Seagrave ;-) Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Wed Aug 20 13:35:56 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:35:56 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48AC721C.6030500@SoCal.rr.com> Jim, Actually the stock wiring (assuming all is in good shape) works just fine with the tach using the Pertronix I and II points replacement kit and also the high voltage coil. Using this ignition points replacement switches the coil current on and off with solid state switches. These do not "arc" like regular points, so also does away with needing a "dual point" distributor plate. Vacuum advances work just fine, as well. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Jim & Carolyn Burruss wrote: > Will the Pertronix electronic ignition drive the stock Tiger tach? > > Many thanks. > > Jim Burruss From lpaulick at comcast.net Wed Aug 20 15:33:21 2008 From: lpaulick at comcast.net (Larry Paulick) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:33:21 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F212@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F212@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <48AC8DA1.6040602@comcast.net> This electronic tach conversion works very well, and is extremely accurate. It is a one time fix, looks stock, and is an easy connection. I have used it for the last four, or is it 6+ years with my Mallory distributor, and MSD6-AL. Larry Smit, Theo wrote: >This is because the Pertronix, like most other points-replacement units, >has a very long dwell time (the time the coil is being charged) compared >to the points, and that messes up the operation of the pulse amplifier >in the OEM tach circuit. > >Tom Hall and I sell and install a replacement electronics module. It >installs inside your OEM tach and completely bypasses the original >circuitry. It can be driven using the original current-sensing loop (the >white wire that powers your Pertronix and coil) for a completely OEM >appearance, or you can directly connect MSD, Jacobs, or other >aftermarket ignition controllers. > >Contact me or Tom (modtiger at comcast.net) for more information. > >Theo From cburruss at hiwaay.net Wed Aug 20 20:34:56 2008 From: cburruss at hiwaay.net (Jim & Carolyn Burruss) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:34:56 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F212@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <9D0C8EEE943B4B08AB5B21F51E7A8070@retired> Interesting comments. I have just reinstalled my dash after reveneering it, and in the process installed a different tach, a converted 4-cylinder unit. I don't need the higher RPM reading, but my original tach had become heat sensitive, reading much too high when it gets warm, even from the light bulb, so that it was essentially useless. The "new" tach, on a test start up, has a wavering needle, while the original tach is rock steady. This is all with a Mallory dual point distributor. The car is not yet ready to be driven, so I'll know more in time. To all who responded to my question so quickly with very valuable information, thanks very much. I'm always lurking in the background and appreicate all the expertise. Jim Burruss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smit, Theo" To: "Tiger Man" ; "Jim & Carolyn Burruss" ; Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: RE: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition > This is because the Pertronix, like most other points-replacement units, > has a very long dwell time (the time the coil is being charged) compared > to the points, and that messes up the operation of the pulse amplifier > in the OEM tach circuit. > > Tom Hall and I sell and install a replacement electronics module. It > installs inside your OEM tach and completely bypasses the original > circuitry. It can be driven using the original current-sensing loop (the > white wire that powers your Pertronix and coil) for a completely OEM > appearance, or you can directly connect MSD, Jacobs, or other > aftermarket ignition controllers. > > Contact me or Tom (modtiger at comcast.net) for more information. > > Theo > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Tiger Man > Sent: August 20, 2008 12:58 PM > To: Jim & Carolyn Burruss; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Pertronix Ignition > > On my car, when the stock ignition was in place, the tach needle would > swing upward with higher engine RPM, but it wasn't particularly accurate > or probably even very proportional to actual engine RPM. > > With the Pertronix II, the tach still moves around, but doesn't really > correlate at all to actual engine RPM anymore. If I remember right it > hangs around 1500-2500 rpm regardless of engine rpm, in fact I think > sometimes it actually moves opposite of engine RPM. > > Hope that helps, > Steve From billlawrence at hotmail.com Thu Aug 21 08:59:13 2008 From: billlawrence at hotmail.com (Bill Lawrence) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:59:13 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] fuel cap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings fellow Tiger Enthusiasts, I had the fuel filler cap on my 65 Tiger pop apart last night. Looks like the fixed pin end of the external cap is intact, but one of the "keepers" is missing (presumably into the tank) while the other sprung onto the station driveway and was rescued. I really have a difficult time believing that the two keepers are just press fit with out any type of mechanical fastener. Any thoughts on a repair would be appreciated. Any NOS or replacement cap available domestically? Warm regards, Bill Lawrence Ft. Lauderdale B9473246LRX _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 21 10:00:01 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:00:01 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] fuel cap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c903a6$fe8f52f0$23b01840@ronpc1> Bill I believe the original casting had cast in posts that were swaged over a washer and the spring loaded seal part which is a very good mechanical way to attach parts. The problem is they were not concerned with corrosion or how to repair a failure 40 years in the future. Generally today auto parts have a design requirement to last only 10 years. Sunbeam Specialties list a gas cap #GT56 $79.60 I believe I have that part on my Tiger now. It is an excellent part with 4 screws holding the spring loaded seal part to the cap. You might be able to drill and tap screw holes into your cap but I have never attempted that. The gas cap that was on the car was pitted some so I never tried to repair it. You should also check the condition of the spring on your cap. I had one that the wire was pitted, lost most of it spring force and it would barely spring up. Sunbeam Specialties might have those in stock too but I'm not sure right now where I got a new spring for my gas cap. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Lawrence Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] fuel cap Greetings fellow Tiger Enthusiasts, I had the fuel filler cap on my 65 Tiger pop apart last night. Looks like the fixed pin end of the external cap is intact, but one of the "keepers" is missing (presumably into the tank) while the other sprung onto the station driveway and was rescued. I really have a difficult time believing that the two keepers are just press fit with out any type of mechanical fastener. Any thoughts on a repair would be appreciated. Any NOS or replacement cap available domestically? Warm regards, Bill Lawrence Ft. Lauderdale B9473246LRX _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1625 - Release Date: 8/21/2008 6:04 AM From brockctella at juno.com Thu Aug 21 12:14:02 2008 From: brockctella at juno.com (Brock Tella) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:14:02 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger caps Message-ID: <20080821.111403.196.47.BrockCTella@juno.com> Along with Tiger shirts, I had some quality caps made. Red or black..$22.00 includes tax and shipping. Sent from my laptop located in my kitchen. ____________________________________________________________ Get the shot you need with a discreet new spy camera. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m1Eqx9UzSUhBBNW95bFvTAcvYZZca89qXYIhPjhDPUvp5Sq/ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Hat 001.jpg] From achd73 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 21 12:40:47 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] fuel cap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <358532.83985.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill- I have a spare cap Im gald to trade for postage. Not sure how pitted it is or isnt but maybe you can fix yours with parts from mine. TonythhTigetr From CoolVT at aol.com Thu Aug 21 13:00:40 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:00:40 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Vibration Message-ID: I just changed wheels and tires and am not sure if this is related....in high gear at 1,500 rpm's (about 60 mph with 5 speed) I get a vibration that lasts about 1-2 seconds and then goes away. 4 or 5 seconds later it comes back and constantly repeats this cycle. With that time sequence I don't see how it can be engine or drivetrain related. It seems it must have something to do with wheel balance. Any ideas? Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From mrlau at charter.net Thu Aug 21 13:36:04 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:36:04 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080821193608.BKWN10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> I don't think wheel RPM is fast enough to give what would normally be called vibration. It would be more of a thump or shake. I would look at tailshaft housing bushing or less likely the U joints or pinion bearing in the rear end. Just grab it with the car in neutral and see if you can shake it sideways. Don't get run over of course. -- Bill -- I just changed wheels and tires and am not sure if this is related....in high gear at 1,500 rpm's (about 60 mph with 5 speed) I get a vibration that lasts about 1-2 seconds and then goes away. 4 or 5 seconds later it comes back and constantly repeats this cycle. With that time sequence I don't see how it can be engine or drivetrain related. It seems it must have something to do with wheel balance. Any ideas? Mark From shutchin at netjets.com Thu Aug 21 13:38:11 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:38:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: <20080821193608.BKWN10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <20080821193608.BKWN10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: Throwout bearing?? * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From mark.rense at ge.com Thu Aug 21 13:39:11 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:39:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, you didn't mention whether the vibration was coming from the steering wheel, floor, or the gear shift. I have experienced this when running two different size tires front and rear that were not true or not balanced well, the difference in the circumferences makes the tires spin at slightly different speeds, so any unbalance will vibrate in and out of harmony. This can also be true side-to-side, especially if one tire is worn more than the other. Bugz -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 3:01 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Vibration I just changed wheels and tires and am not sure if this is related....in high gear at 1,500 rpm's (about 60 mph with 5 speed) I get a vibration that lasts about 1-2 seconds and then goes away. 4 or 5 seconds later it comes back and constantly repeats this cycle. With that time sequence I don't see how it can be engine or drivetrain related. It seems it must have something to do with wheel balance. Any ideas? Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) You are subscribed as mark.rense at ge.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Thu Aug 21 13:51:30 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:51:30 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Vibration Message-ID: Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From cmccann at lwpb.com Thu Aug 21 14:17:58 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:17:58 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Not Tiger related, but sure would appreciate some thoughts...part 1 of 2 Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECB07E@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> All, I have been battling with an issue on a project for awhile, and now I'm getting a little desperate. Its not Tiger related...actually this car is so far away from Tiger topics, I'm slightly hesistant to ask, but like I said, I'm getting a little desperate and some of you guys have seen a lot of stuff over the years, and this one is new for me, maybe someone will have an idea. Here is a very quick background: I have a pro street/ or more like pro touring 1967 Chevrolet Nova, or Chevy II....I have had it for about 20 years, and built it up twice. Bought it as a powerglide 2 spd automatic and straight 6....first build up when I was 16 was a .030 over 350 chevy, 350 turbo automatic. Factory body, rear leaf springs, posi 10-bolt with 3:73's, shock towers on the front, 4 wheel drums etc. it was a stock body with a mild motor and transmission, with the bigges size tire I could get on it on the back which was a 245/60/15...BFG on Cragar SS wheels...that was 15-20 years ago...... .........a few years ago I decided to go thru it again, this time it got mini tubbed, with inboard frame rails, 4 link rear suspension, ford 9", 4:11 gears, 295/50/15's, 4 wheel discs, same 350 turbo transmission, tubular mustang II front end, rack and pinion, 406 inch small block roller motor ( dyno's at 490 horse) 8 point cage, subframe connectors, sill reinforcing tubes...and the cage ties in to the chassis strengthing.. ( the subframe connectors and the sill stiffiners) the rear frame rails tie in to the cross member and driveshaft loop, and those tie in to the subframe connectos. So its very stiff...no chassis flex, or at least a hellofa lot less than it had to begin with. Wait for part 2 coming immediately after this... Cullen From cmccann at lwpb.com Thu Aug 21 14:19:23 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:19:23 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Not Tiger related, but sure would appreciate some thoughts...part 1 of 2 Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECB080@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Part 2 of 2 Now here is where it gets sticky...right after building it up this last time, about a year ago....I got it running, and drove it.... put about 50 miles on it, it drove great and all looked good. I decided to give it some gas. I was out in my neighborhood here the back roads of Oklahoma, brought the car to a stop and jumped on it pretty hard. It instantly made a loud snapping sound...followed by a huge vibration problem...I got out and looked it over but couldn't see anything. I limped it home a couple of miles. When I put it on the lift I noticed the bell housing to the automatic transmission was broken completely off the case. Cut its throat ear to ear as they say...it broke from the corner near the pan all the way over to the other corner, and when I removed it the transmission cam out in 2 pieces....like a manual...lol. After pouring over it for a week or two, I couldn't find anything wrong. I took the transmission and stall up to the transmission shop in town, very reputable, done lots of work with them. They built me up a street strip 350 turbo, with plenty of go fast guts and goodies...installed it in the car and went back to driving. This time I put about 150 miles on it.....hadn't yet got " on it" very hard, but....one night some kid in his trans am was egging me on...so I take it kinda easy but still rolled on to it pretty hard, and went to grabbing gears....when the car came to a stop that same vibration was there...and it bad broken the transmission again. I put a 3rd trans in it but haven't gotten on it since, and that was 6 months ago. I have asked everyone I know, and they all say chassis flex and I must have solid motor mounts....which is incorrect. I have plain jane rubber mounts, which aren't broken, and a rubber mount on the transmission cross member. I have had the chassis looked at by 2 of the most reputable chassis guys I know, and both think it looks fine, or at least shouldn't cause this problem. My 4 link wont let the rear end rotate, the driveshaft isn't thrusting into the tranny...the car aligns great, the chassis is straight and true. Any suggestions to my issue (besides that it's a Chevrolet!) would be appreciated..... Thanks again in advance... Cullen From jteepen at usatoday.com Thu Aug 21 15:26:30 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:26:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250087C8E@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Do you still have the old wheels and tires available? If so, put them back on and check to see if the problem persists. Also, what type of wheels are the new ones? The current Panasports (if applicable) are not hub centric and can cause what you describe. If you try the above suggestion and the vibration goes away, re-install the new wheels and mark their orientation. If the problem recurs, remove each wheel one at a time and turn it 90 degrees and drive the car to see if the vibration is still there. This is rather time intensive and may not resolve the issue, but it worked for me with Panasports (or any other non-hub centric wheels I suppose.) As for the different size tires being the issue, I have always run different sizes front/rear on several types of wheels over the eons, and have never found this to be an issue. Jere Teepen -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:52 PM To: mark.rense at ge.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu Aug 21 15:38:08 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:38:08 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48ADE040.2000203@SoCal.rr.com> Mark, Just read in this morning's L.A. Times that the California environmentalists have struck again, and no one will be allowed to balance wheel/tire with lead weights. No Tire Company, Dealership, Tire sellers, or sales of lead weights will be allowed. We all know that lead is poisonous if ingested (don't eat your weights) but apparently they can come off the wheel (yes) and traffic pulverizes them and rain will wash them into our drinking water (???). I don't think our reservoirs collect street drainage. /"Kiss a Coyote", and we will also bomb you if you do medical research on animals, or wear fur, or leather shoes, or keep your pants up with --------"/ ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark From jteepen at usatoday.com Thu Aug 21 15:48:31 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:48:31 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: <48ADE040.2000203@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250087CF2@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> It also poisons creeks, streams, lakes, and the ocean, affecting wildlife and contaminating recreational waters. I am surprised it took this long to eliminate considering the toxicity of lead has been known for a very long time. There are alternatives to lead, though not as convenient to use. Jere Teepen -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Laifman Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:38 PM To: CoolVT at aol.com Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration Mark, Just read in this morning's L.A. Times that the California environmentalists have struck again, and no one will be allowed to balance wheel/tire with lead weights. No Tire Company, Dealership, Tire sellers, or sales of lead weights will be allowed. We all know that lead is poisonous if ingested (don't eat your weights) but apparently they can come off the wheel (yes) and traffic pulverizes them and rain will wash them into our drinking water (???). I don't think our reservoirs collect street drainage. /"Kiss a Coyote", and we will also bomb you if you do medical research on animals, or wear fur, or leather shoes, or keep your pants up with --------"/ ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 21 16:18:05 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:18:05 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tach Pertronix Message-ID: <000001c903db$dc0499e0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> I replaced the points with a Pertronix 1 system about 10 years ago. The tach always bounced around for the most part with points or Pertronix. You can adjust the stock tach by turning a pointer screw inside of the case. One of the Tiger web sites shows the location of the adjustment screw and where you can drill a hole in the case to get to it. You drill a hole through the case so a screwdriver can adjust the tach while mounted. You just need a good reference tach and match the two together at a given rpm, say 3000 rpm. Adjusting the tach did make a difference and seems to be more accurate. Here is a couple of helpful tach links: http://www.classictiger.com/techtips/techtips.html http://66.175.58.218/tech/stoa_tech_9904.pdf Jeff From sganz at pacbell.net Thu Aug 21 17:23:29 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Vibration Message-ID: <495977.6852.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think you could use Plutonium, it has a high density ;-) I think the EU has had Iron Weights, and I have seen them when I got a couple of boxes of weights (lead) for my racing rims but not sure if they have them in tape on. Well I had better order some more before they become extinct. I will, however, check for iron before makeing the non-green selection! Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: "Teepen, Jere" To: Steve Laifman ; "CoolVT at aol.com" Cc: "tigers at autox.team.net" Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:48:31 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration It also poisons creeks, streams, lakes, and the ocean, affecting wildlife and contaminating recreational waters. I am surprised it took this long to eliminate considering the toxicity of lead has been known for a very long time. There are alternatives to lead, though not as convenient to use. Jere Teepen -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Laifman Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:38 PM To: CoolVT at aol.com Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration Mark, Just read in this morning's L.A. Times that the California environmentalists have struck again, and no one will be allowed to balance wheel/tire with lead weights. No Tire Company, Dealership, Tire sellers, or sales of lead weights will be allowed. We all know that lead is poisonous if ingested (don't eat your weights) but apparently they can come off the wheel (yes) and traffic pulverizes them and rain will wash them into our drinking water (???). I don't think our reservoirs collect street drainage. /"Kiss a Coyote", and we will also bomb you if you do medical research on animals, or wear fur, or leather shoes, or keep your pants up with --------"/ ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From drmoonstone at aol.com Thu Aug 21 18:47:45 2008 From: drmoonstone at aol.com (drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:47:45 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] fuel cap In-Reply-To: <358532.83985.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAD207D3832A08-10EC-81C4@webmail-nf03.sim.aol.com> Tony, you're awesome. Way to support the group!! Moonstone -----Original Message----- From: Tony Somebody To: tigers at autox.team.net; Bill Lawrence Sent: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:40 am Subject: Re: [Tigers] fuel cap Bill- I have a spare cap Im gald to trade for postage. Not sure how pitted it is or isnt but maybe you can fix yours with parts from mine. TonythhTigetr You are subscribed as drmoonstone at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From atwittsend at verizon.net Thu Aug 21 18:58:24 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:58:24 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration - lead weights References: <495977.6852.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010a01c903f2$2e50b560$0302a8c0@student2> So, it has come to this! Some old timer secretly smelting lead in a recluse shack and selling the weights on the black market. Elsewhere, an auto aficionado stealthily slips the underpaid tire guy a $20, - to have him use the weights he bought from the old timer. The government responds with lead sniffing dogs and law enforcement is give magnets on sticks to test wheels for suspected polluters. Stickers with a red circles and a diagonal red slash over the letters Pb get slapped on VW busses, covering over fade global warming stickers. The conspiracy theorist have a new whipping boy. "Dorothy wake - up!" Oh..., it was only a bad nightmare. Tom :-) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1625 - Release Date: 8/21/2008 6:04 AM From drmoonstone at aol.com Thu Aug 21 18:59:22 2008 From: drmoonstone at aol.com (drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:59:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250087CF2@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Message-ID: <8CAD20972D3E206-10EC-8243@webmail-nf03.sim.aol.com> You're right and we can also make less dangerous ammunition for a safer and sweeter society. Currently the cost of replacing lead in the shooting sports has caused a 6 fold increase in cost. But lead, god save us all. LOL Moonstone -----Original Message----- From: Teepen, Jere To: Steve Laifman ; CoolVT at aol.com Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 2:48 pm Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration It also poisons creeks, streams, lakes, and the ocean, affecting wildlife and contaminating recreational waters. I am surprised it took this long to eliminate considering the toxicity of lead has been known for a very long time. There are alternatives to lead, though not as convenient to use. Jere Teepen -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Laifman Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:38 PM To: CoolVT at aol.com Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration Mark, Just read in this morning's L.A. Times that the California environmentalists have struck again, and no one will be allowed to balance wheel/tire with lead weights. No Tire Company, Dealership, Tire sellers, or sales of lead weights will be allowed. We all know that lead is poisonous if ingested (don't eat your weights) but apparently they can come off the wheel (yes) and traffic pulverizes them and rain will wash them into our drinking water (???). I don't think our reservoirs collect street drainage. /"Kiss a Coyote", and we will also bomb you if you do medical research on animals, or wear fur, or leather shoes, or keep your pants up with --------"/ ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark You are subscribed as drmoonstone at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Thu Aug 21 19:29:00 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Vibration Message-ID: <139308.96934.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yet another law, smells like leaded gas, no pun intended ;-). In any case, I just ordered 30lbs of tape on lead weights. You have until 2009 I think before they are illegal just like using a cell phone while driving. I'm careful with my hazmat stuff and would not dump them into the trash other then that they don't seem to come of when taped up. http://www.latimes.com/la-fi-wheels21-2008aug21,0,3343081.story The LAT Story... Sandy I might have typed this while driving and using my cell phone...but that would be aginst the law From mrlau at charter.net Thu Aug 21 20:04:25 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:04:25 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: <48ADE040.2000203@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20080822020429.UBTF10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> I wonder why when the lead is in the ground before they make wheel weights out of it, it doesn't contaminate the water. Mark, Just read in this morning's L.A. Times that the California environmentalists have struck again, and no one will be allowed to balance wheel/tire with lead weights. No Tire Company, Dealership, Tire sellers, or sales of lead weights will be allowed. We all know that lead is poisonous if ingested (don't eat your weights) but apparently they can come off the wheel (yes) and traffic pulverizes them and rain will wash them into our drinking water (???). I don't think our reservoirs collect street drainage. /"Kiss a Coyote", and we will also bomb you if you do medical research on animals, or wear fur, or leather shoes, or keep your pants up with --------"/ ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark From mrlau at charter.net Thu Aug 21 20:22:02 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:22:02 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: <8CAD20972D3E206-10EC-8243@webmail-nf03.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <20080822022206.URUY29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Dr, what you wrote is the real reason to get rid of lead. If you can't use lead for bullets, the alternative is so expensive that only the rich can afford them. If the left can get rid of lead in other places first, it will be simple to take it away from bullets which is their # 1 priority. -- Bill -- You're right and we can also make less dangerous ammunition for a safer and sweeter society. Currently the cost of replacing lead in the shooting sports has caused a 6 fold increase in cost. But lead, god save us all. LOL Moonstone -----Original Message----- From: Teepen, Jere To: Steve Laifman ; CoolVT at aol.com Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 2:48 pm Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration It also poisons creeks, streams, lakes, and the ocean, affecting wildlife and contaminating recreational waters. I am surprised it took this long to eliminate considering the toxicity of lead has been known for a very long time. There are alternatives to lead, though not as convenient to use. Jere Teepen Mark, Just read in this morning's L.A. Times that the California environmentalists have struck again, and no one will be allowed to balance wheel/tire with lead weights. No Tire Company, Dealership, Tire sellers, or sales of lead weights will be allowed. We all know that lead is poisonous if ingested (don't eat your weights) but apparently they can come off the wheel (yes) and traffic pulverizes them and rain will wash them into our drinking water (???). I don't think our reservoirs collect street drainage. /"Kiss a Coyote", and we will also bomb you if you do medical research on animals, or wear fur, or leather shoes, or keep your pants up with --------"/ ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark You are subscribed as drmoonstone at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as mrlau at charter.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Thu Aug 21 20:55:58 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Vibration Message-ID: <33028.17325.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That is a question that might hold some water, but we import all our dangerous products from Canada ;). I had read an article about Leaded gasoline a few years back by a scientist said that the removal of lead in gasoline has not made any differences in the levels in nature or some such statement. Not sure how true it was, but was interesting. What about Freon 12 and the R134A replacement, seems that didn't go to well either. Well at least we are trying... Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: William Lau To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:04:25 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration I wonder why when the lead is in the ground before they make wheel weights out of it, it doesn't contaminate the water. Mark, Just read in this morning's L.A. Times that the California environmentalists have struck again, and no one will be allowed to balance wheel/tire with lead weights. No Tire Company, Dealership, Tire sellers, or sales of lead weights will be allowed. We all know that lead is poisonous if ingested (don't eat your weights) but apparently they can come off the wheel (yes) and traffic pulverizes them and rain will wash them into our drinking water (???). I don't think our reservoirs collect street drainage. /"Kiss a Coyote", and we will also bomb you if you do medical research on animals, or wear fur, or leather shoes, or keep your pants up with --------"/ ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com CoolVT at aol.com wrote: Well, I do have different sized tires front and rear. They are new and tires are new. Transmission and drive shaft are new. The thing is, I didn't notice this before the I put tires on a few days ago. I think I'll start by having the wheels rebalanced and see if that helps any. The strange thing is, it doesn't feel like an imbalance that will come and go at different speeds. This comes and goes at a certain speed. I don't notice it at lower speeds. mark _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From mrlau at charter.net Thu Aug 21 21:23:25 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:23:25 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration In-Reply-To: <33028.17325.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080822032329.XCVI29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Sandy, Remember in about 1980 when the Times Magazine had ice age pictures on their cover. Now it is global warming. These groups and a number of politicians make their money scaring people constantly with skewed information. The real horror of this is that when someone constantly hollers wolf, no one pays any attention when the wolf is really there. It winds up being the fault of the very people that thought they were at least doing something and weren't willing to throw out the people perpetrating the hoaxes to start with. -- Bill -- That is a question that might hold some water, but we import all our dangerous products from Canada ;). I had read an article about Leaded gasoline a few years back by a scientist said that the removal of lead in gasoline has not made any differences in the levels in nature or some such statement. Not sure how true it was, but was interesting. What about Freon 12 and the R134A replacement, seems that didn't go to well either. Well at least we are trying... Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: William Lau To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:04:25 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Vibration I wonder why when the lead is in the ground before they make wheel weights out of it, it doesn't contaminate the water. Mark, Just read in this morning's L.A. Times that the California environmentalists have struck again, and no one will be allowed to balance wheel/tire with lead weights. No Tire Company, Dealership, Tire sellers, or sales of lead weights will be allowed. We all know that lead is poisonous if ingested (don't eat your weights) but apparently they can come off the wheel (yes) and traffic pulverizes them and rain will wash them into our drinking water (???). I don't think our reservoirs collect street drainage. /"Kiss a Coyote", and we will also bomb you if you do medical research on animals, or wear fur, or leather shoes, or keep your pants up with --------"/ From geowiz.sgy at cox.net Thu Aug 21 21:29:10 2008 From: geowiz.sgy at cox.net (James E. Pickard) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:29:10 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Hood buffers Message-ID: <94FD2CD57A664CF88C12C4B37D11C3AE@JEPHome> I'm still clueless on removing the two rear hood buffers (SS part. no. ET95). Obviously the front two are held on by easily accessible nuts. But the rear two seem to disappear somewhere into the body. Do they simply screw into a built-in thread? Thanks. Jim Pickard B9473298 ('65 Tiger) AN5L/12109 ('59 Sprite) - sold 2003 Mini Cooper Lafayette, LA From mmichels at socal.rr.com Thu Aug 21 23:05:47 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:05:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Hood buffers References: <94FD2CD57A664CF88C12C4B37D11C3AE@JEPHome> Message-ID: <005c01c90414$bd50dca0$6401a8c0@delldimension> Hi Jim, Yes, they should screw into captive nuts that are welded underneath the hood drain channel. Height is adjusted by turning them in or out and then locked with a jam nut against the captive nut. I think I may have corresponded earlier that a "crow foot" wrench adapter on a short socket extension makes it possible to loosen and tighten the lock nut. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Pickard" To: "Tiger List" Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: [Tigers] Hood buffers > I'm still clueless on removing the two rear hood buffers (SS part. no. > ET95). > Obviously the front two are held on by easily accessible nuts. But the > rear > two seem to disappear somewhere into the body. Do they simply screw into > a > built-in thread? Thanks. > > Jim Pickard > B9473298 ('65 Tiger) > AN5L/12109 ('59 Sprite) - sold > 2003 Mini Cooper > Lafayette, LA > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From todbrown at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 22 07:09:39 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:09:39 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lead Weights Message-ID: <48AEBA93.2000600@roadrunner.com> Lead is a particularly nasty substance, once it gets into the environment because it is difficult to remove and can find its way into our bodies in numerous ways. The negative effects on the neurological system, including the brain, are long-term and irreversible. In the past, lead has found its way into the environment from the lead in gasoline, paint, dust and soil containing lead, drinking water (from lead pipes and solder), incinerated print and paper products and lead batteries, to name just a few. By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. Maine and other states have passed laws to ban the use of lead weights for fishing due to the effect on bird populations (like Loons) that tend to ingest the weights. You can make light of the situation and joke around about not eating your balance weights but this is not really something to disregard. Brain damage is not funny, even if you are talking about Congress and the present Administration. Tod B382002384LRXFE From mrlau at charter.net Fri Aug 22 07:47:07 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:47:07 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] FW: Lead Weights Message-ID: <20080822134711.JHRM29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> This phony accusation is perpetrated by lowering the amount of lead allowed in a human each year until a crisis is imagined. Some lead is normal in humans. Compare the current levels with 1920 and see where we are at. Lead is in the ground to start with where water can leach across it forever. Global warming --- No global cooling--- no, warming -- cooling --warming. Whatever, just be scared because the sky is falling. Tod I would bet money you are virulently anti second amendment also. -- Bill -- Tod said By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. Lead is a particularly nasty substance, once it gets into the environment because it is difficult to remove and can find its way into our bodies in numerous ways. The negative effects on the neurological system, including the brain, are long-term and irreversible. By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. from the lead in gasoline, paint, dust and soil containing lead, drinking water (from lead pipes and solder), incinerated print and paper products and lead batteries, to name just a few. By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. Maine and other states have passed laws to ban the use of lead weights for fishing due to the effect on bird populations (like Loons) that tend to ingest the weights. You can make light of the situation and joke around about not eating your balance weights but this is not really something to disregard. Brain damage is not funny, even if you are talking about Congress and the present Administration. Tod B382002384LRXFE From zimme008 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 22 08:01:40 2008 From: zimme008 at yahoo.com (Randy Zimmermann) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:01:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20080822134711.JHRM29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <673021.98761.qm@web56414.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I don't know why this needs to be said yet again but apparently it does: This is a list about Sunbeam cars and Tigers in particular! There are plenty of alternate channels in cyberspace to exchange views on the bigger issues of the day. Personally, it spoils the beginning of my day to have to read messages like this below. Call it selfish of me, but I own my Tiger for pleasure and subscribe to this list for the exchange of information about maintaining and continuing to derive pleasure from this unique Sunbeam car. Randy Zimmermann Duluth, MN --- On Fri, 8/22/08, William Lau wrote: From: William Lau Subject: [Tigers] FW: Lead Weights To: tigers at autox.team.net Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 8:47 AM This phony accusation is perpetrated by lowering the amount of lead allowed in a human each year until a crisis is imagined. Some lead is normal in humans. Compare the current levels with 1920 and see where we are at. Lead is in the ground to start with where water can leach across it forever. Global warming --- No global cooling--- no, warming -- cooling --warming. Whatever, just be scared because the sky is falling. Tod I would bet money you are virulently anti second amendment also. -- Bill -- Tod said By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. Lead is a particularly nasty substance, once it gets into the environment because it is difficult to remove and can find its way into our bodies in numerous ways. The negative effects on the neurological system, including the brain, are long-term and irreversible. By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. from the lead in gasoline, paint, dust and soil containing lead, drinking water (from lead pipes and solder), incinerated print and paper products and lead batteries, to name just a few. By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. Maine and other states have passed laws to ban the use of lead weights for fishing due to the effect on bird populations (like Loons) that tend to ingest the weights. You can make light of the situation and joke around about not eating your balance weights but this is not really something to disregard. Brain damage is not funny, even if you are talking about Congress and the present Administration. Tod B382002384LRXFE You are subscribed as zimme008 at yahoo.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From mrlau at charter.net Fri Aug 22 08:32:52 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:32:52 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <673021.98761.qm@web56414.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080822143257.LWBA10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> This head in the sand thinking is exactly why we lose things like our Tigers. How much longer do you expect to have the fuel and other things so that you can still drive it? If you are scared that I might respond to a political statement with a political rebuttal, just click that X whenever you read the initial statement to keep your thinking safe. -- Bill -- I don't know why this needs to be said yet again but apparently it does: This is a list about Sunbeam cars and Tigers in particular! There are plenty of alternate channels in cyberspace to exchange views on the bigger issues of the day. Personally, it spoils the beginning of my day to have to read messages like this below. Call it selfish of me, but I own my Tiger for pleasure and subscribe to this list for the exchange of information about maintaining and continuing to derive pleasure from this unique Sunbeam car. Randy Zimmermann Duluth, MN From CoolVT at aol.com Fri Aug 22 09:07:33 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 11:07:33 EDT Subject: [Tigers] FW: Lead Weights Message-ID: Here's an interesting one on lead paint......In Vermont lead laws were passed that dealt with lead paint in apt buildings (let the home owners' kids fend for themselves;-) I got licensed as a "lead abatement" handler. This was not to remove lead paint, but to "control" it in apts through various methods. The benefit for landlords is that if you follow these rules you can never be sued by renters for lead paint in the building. What I thought most interesting is that kids weren't being poisoned from lead paint inside of the building. Most were getting it from the earth surrounding the building. As wooden houses were scraped and repainted over the years the lead built to high levels in the first 10' of earth surrounding the house. The kids playing in that dirt got the problems. The kid chewing paint on the windowsill made a nice graphic, but was found to be extremely rare. One remediation method VT has used is that plastic has to be put down when scraping the exterior of an apt building. When done, roll up the plastic with the scraped lead paint contained in it and throw it in the rubbish. That last part is what I couldn't understand. I thought if it was so dangerous that something else should be done with it. I guess VT is waiting for Calif. to tell them what to do with the buckets of paint contained in the plastic Also, VT has banned small lead sinkers (small enough for birds and fish to swallow), but is still allowing lead over a certain weight. Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From atwittsend at verizon.net Fri Aug 22 10:08:48 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:08:48 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) References: <673021.98761.qm@web56414.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004701c90471$5c969dc0$0302a8c0@student2> Randy, If these comments were brought up purely from a political argument - out of nowhere - I would agree with you. However, it did germinate from a discussion about balance weights on Tigers. Should it continue on endlessly I would also agree that it should have a point of termination. While this is a "Tiger" list it is also automotive related, there are things related to every car that affect our hobby. Some feel a need to "vent" stronger than others. For me, I would prefer to give them that latitude - for a period of time - even if I disagree (which to some extent I do). Yesterday I posted what to me was a whimsical absurdity (old man smelting lead in a shack) of health laws. Mark just posted about the austerity of Vermont lead disposal. Why should this discussion be on a Tiger list? Because if you had to have a licensed lead expert charge you $200 to clean corroded battery terminals I think there would be a relevance to how all this ties together. At times it seems like that day isn't too far off. Frankly, if it wasn't for these side discussions I wonder how little traffic there would be. Eight years ago when I got on the list it was 98% Tiger discussion. While I wish that were still the case, obviously it is not. I will never have the money to buy a set of Panasports or a Martha Wheat interior. I have probably seen hundreds of messages on these subjects that are on no interest to me. The simple solution - Delete. Don't let a few zealous people who do feel that outside issues affect their Tiger hobby ruin your day. Respectfully, Tom Witt No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1625 - Release Date: 8/21/2008 6:04 AM From CoolVT at aol.com Fri Aug 22 10:38:44 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:38:44 EDT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: As a side note on wheel weights. I was at a tire balancer this morning. I asked about the lead weights. He said they had been phasing lead replacements in for the past year. He showed me one that he thought was zink and compared it to a lead weight. The zink apparently isn't as heavy because the 1oz. zink was about 3 times the size of the 1oz. lead. He said the instructions on the boxes of both weights tell the installer to wash their hands every time they handle either of the weights. I asked how many of the installer do. His answer, "None!" I'm not so sure I'd want to handle a few hundred lead weights every day with no gloves! Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From fastsage at cox.net Fri Aug 22 10:44:12 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:44:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Lead Weights In-Reply-To: <48AEBA93.2000600@roadrunner.com> References: <48AEBA93.2000600@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <48AEECDC.90407@cox.net> Tod: You had me somewhat swayed to your point of view until you got down to your last line: "Tod Brown wrote: > ....................Brain damage is not funny, even if you are talking about Congress and the > present Administration. > Tod > B382002384LRXFE............................. > _______________________________________________ Actually, I thought some of those comments were funny. Left wingers just can't help themselves when their Bush/Republican derangement syndrome takes over. Any sense of humor, if there was one to begin with, goes out the window. You just don't get it that a dumb comment like that keeps at least half of your audience from taking you seriously. Steve Sage E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10540e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ From mark.rense at ge.com Fri Aug 22 10:55:24 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:55:24 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lead Weights In-Reply-To: <48AEECDC.90407@cox.net> References: <48AEBA93.2000600@roadrunner.com> <48AEECDC.90407@cox.net> Message-ID: This discussion reminds me of my favorite political bumper sticker, courtesy of the old comic strip Bloom County: "NUKE THE GAY WHALES!" I do see a tie-in to a previous discussion about electric power generation and the byproduct of building more Nuke plants: Use spent uranium as wheel weights. They already make armor-piercing shells from the stuff. I'll bet that idea would curl a few toes over at the EPA... :>) Happy Friday, Bugz From arado7 at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 22 11:18:50 2008 From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:18:50 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lead Weights References: <48AEBA93.2000600@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: Lead is a relatively inert substance. Bullets taken from the ground at Gettysburg(Civil war) are still intact. This after a nominal 150 year period of exposure to moisture, soil acids etc.... I watch with interest the hyperbole of the green agenda.....Gary B9472283 survivor.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tod Brown" To: Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Lead Weights > Lead is a particularly nasty substance, once it gets into the > environment because it is difficult to remove and > can find its way into our bodies in numerous ways. The negative > effects on the neurological system, including > the brain, are long-term and irreversible. In the past, lead has > found its way into the environment from the lead > in gasoline, paint, dust and soil containing lead, drinking water > (from lead pipes and solder), incinerated print > and paper products and lead batteries, to name just a few. By one > account, 32% of the children in LA are > lead-poisoned. Maine and other states have passed laws to ban the use > of lead weights for fishing due to the > effect on bird populations (like Loons) that tend to ingest the > weights. You can make light of the situation > and joke around about not eating your balance weights but this is not > really something to disregard. Brain > damage is not funny, even if you are talking about Congress and the > present Administration. > Tod > B382002384LRXFE > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as arado7 at sbcglobal.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From mrlau at charter.net Fri Aug 22 11:21:14 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:21:14 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Lead Weights In-Reply-To: <48AEECDC.90407@cox.net> Message-ID: <20080822172119.UKUT29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Steve, with what the Left wingers are offering the public this very moment I am smiling more and more. -- Bill -- Tod: You had me somewhat swayed to your point of view until you got down to your last line: "Tod Brown wrote: > ....................Brain damage is not funny, even if you are talking about Congress and the > present Administration. > Tod > B382002384LRXFE............................. > _______________________________________________ Actually, I thought some of those comments were funny. Left wingers just can't help themselves when their Bush/Republican derangement syndrome takes over. Any sense of humor, if there was one to begin with, goes out the window. You just don't get it that a dumb comment like that keeps at least half of your audience from taking you seriously. Steve Sage From sralsten at ca.rr.com Fri Aug 22 12:01:30 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:01:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lead Message-ID: <4411736.520561219428090275.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web18-z02> When I was younger and unleaded gas appeared on the market (at a higher price) My grandfather told me he remembered when lead was first added to fuel. "They raised the price to add the lead. Now they've raised the price again because it supposedly has to be removed" Steve I had read an article about Leaded gasoline a few years back by a scientist said that the removal of lead in gasoline has not made any differences in the levels in nature or some such statement. Not sure how true it was, but was interesting. What about Freon 12 and the R134A replacement, seems that didn't go to well either. Well at least we are trying... Sandy From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 22 12:41:55 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:41:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: <001901c90486$c0ea0220$6401a8c0@your03667082de> "I don't know why this needs to be said yet again but apparently it does: This is a list about Sunbeam cars and Tigers in particular! There are plenty of alternate channels in cyberspace to exchange views on the bigger issues of the day. Personally, it spoils the beginning of my day to have to read messages like this below. Call it selfish of me, but I own my Tiger for pleasure and subscribe to this list for the exchange of information about maintaining and continuing to derive pleasure from this unique Sunbeam car." I agree, lets talk about TAC or that S.O.B. Carroll Shelby or Algers or resto-mod versus original or which part vendors suck or ...........? And forget about Liberal wienies or tree hugging Greenies or Conservative selfish meanies! Jeff From Cushcom1 at aol.com Fri Aug 22 12:46:10 2008 From: Cushcom1 at aol.com (Cushcom1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:46:10 EDT Subject: [Tigers] DALE LISTING Message-ID: DO ANY LISTERS OUT THERE HAVE A CURRENT PHONE NUMBER FOR DALE AKEZUSKI (DALE'S RESTORATIONS)? THANKS FROM THE TIGERMAN **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From rfraser at bluefrog.com Fri Aug 22 13:01:22 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:01:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] DALE LISTING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c90489$79c45370$23b01840@ronpc1> Tigerman Here is the contact information on his web site or is that the problem none of the numbers work. http://www.dalesresto.com/contact.html Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cushcom1 at aol.com Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:46 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] DALE LISTING DO ANY LISTERS OUT THERE HAVE A CURRENT PHONE NUMBER FOR DALE AKEZUSKI (DALE'S RESTORATIONS)? THANKS FROM THE TIGERMAN **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 8/22/2008 6:48 AM From rfraser at bluefrog.com Fri Aug 22 13:13:39 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:13:39 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <001901c90486$c0ea0220$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <000301c9048b$304a22e0$23b01840@ronpc1> Jeff Information I have is that Carroll Shelby and SAAC have kissed and made up. SAAC stays on the East coast and Team Shelby stays on the West coast. This is hear say on my part, I have not confirmed that statement and may be subject to change but I hope that chapter is over and done with. Funny how a new accountant suddenly finds a delinquent license agreement account and suddenly Lawyers are grabbing thousands of $$ for litigation about $10 in back license fees. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nichols Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:42 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion "I don't know why this needs to be said yet again but apparently it does: This is a list about Sunbeam cars and Tigers in particular! There are plenty of alternate channels in cyberspace to exchange views on the bigger issues of the day. Personally, it spoils the beginning of my day to have to read messages like this below. Call it selfish of me, but I own my Tiger for pleasure and subscribe to this list for the exchange of information about maintaining and continuing to derive pleasure from this unique Sunbeam car." I agree, lets talk about TAC or that S.O.B. Carroll Shelby or Algers or resto-mod versus original or which part vendors suck or ...........? And forget about Liberal wienies or tree hugging Greenies or Conservative selfish meanies! Jeff You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 8/22/2008 6:48 AM From brockctella at juno.com Fri Aug 22 13:22:25 2008 From: brockctella at juno.com (Brock Tella) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:22:25 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Trunk lock Message-ID: <20080822.122227.196.73.BrockCTella@juno.com> I searched everywhere but could not find the answer. I ordered a new tumbler and keys but can not figure out how to replace it. Do the rivets holding the chrome assembly to the metal latch have to be drilled out? Any advice would be appreciated. Sent from my laptop located in my kitchen. ____________________________________________________________ Find the medical school that's right for you. Click to request info today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oIq84bnlHX3kZJkhxpmKArtV0XdCnIqyvrwQKrkfMFomphA/ From todbrown at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 22 13:31:49 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:31:49 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lead Weights In-Reply-To: <20080822134617.JJOV10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <20080822134617.JJOV10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <48AF1425.9070001@roadrunner.com> Bill: It's not 1920 any more. Maybe there is some valid research behind the changes? But, if you think that it is all a gigantic conspiracy, that doesn't matter, does it? BTW, how do you feel about the 13th and 19th Amendments? Tod William Lau wrote: This phony accusation is perpetrated by lowering the amount of lead allowed in a human each year until a crisis is imagined. Some lead is normal in humans. Compare the current levels with 1920 and see where we are at. Lead is in the ground to start with where water can leach across it forever. Global warming --- No global cooling--- no, warming -- cooling --warming. Whatever, just be scared because the sky is falling. Tod I would bet money you are virulently anti second amendment also. -- Bill -- Tod said By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. Lead is a particularly nasty substance, once it gets into the environment because it is difficult to remove and can find its way into our bodies in numerous ways. The negative effects on the neurological system, including the brain, are long-term and irreversible. By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. from the lead in gasoline, paint, dust and soil containing lead, drinking water (from lead pipes and solder), incinerated print and paper products and lead batteries, to name just a few. By one account, 32% of the children in LA are lead-poisoned. Maine and other states have passed laws to ban the use of lead weights for fishing due to the effect on bird populations (like Loons) that tend to ingest the weights. You can make light of the situation and joke around about not eating your balance weights but this is not really something to disregard. Brain damage is not funny, even if you are talking about Congress and the present Administration. Tod B382002384LRXFE From mrlau at charter.net Fri Aug 22 13:39:18 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:39:18 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Lead Weights In-Reply-To: <48AF1425.9070001@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <20080822193922.XJI29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> 13th abolishment of slavery 19th women's voting rights You're kidding right????? -- Bill -- Bill: It's not 1920 any more. Maybe there is some valid research behind the changes? But, if you think that it is all a gigantic conspiracy, that doesn't matter, does it? BTW, how do you feel about the 13th and 19th Amendments? Tod William Lau wrote: This phony accusation is perpetrated by lowering the amount of lead allowed in a human each year until a crisis is imagined. Some lead is normal in humans. Compare the current levels with 1920 and see where we are at. Lead is in the ground to start with where water can leach across it forever. Global warming --- No global cooling--- no, warming -- cooling --warming. Whatever, just be scared because the sky is falling. Tod I would bet money you are virulently anti second amendment also. -- Bill -- From cmccann at lwpb.com Fri Aug 22 13:40:23 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:40:23 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Not Tiger related, but sure would appreciate some thoughts...part 1 of 2 In-Reply-To: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECB07E@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> References: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECB07E@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FECB1D0@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> Thanks to everyone who contacted me off list to discuss the problems with the Chevy transmission...your comments are really helping me get my eyes focused on where to look for a problem, or a way to think about a solution. Oh...and although the 15 guys that emailed me back didn't seem to mind, sorry to anyone who does mind that I addressed the list with a non Tiger related topic...I didn't know it was such a sensitive issue. Thanks! Cullen 1452 From sganz at pacbell.net Fri Aug 22 14:34:08 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Chilling Friday Video Message-ID: <259766.10827.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well with all this heated discussion on lead, how about a nice cool video to change the mood. While not quite as fun as the R5 Turbo Video, this on is amusing unless you have seasons with snow... http://www.motorator.com/videos/394 Enjoy Sandy From rfraser at bluefrog.com Fri Aug 22 16:19:13 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:19:13 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Trunk lock In-Reply-To: <20080822.122227.196.73.BrockCTella@juno.com> Message-ID: <000201c904a5$1d46bd60$51921840@ronpc1> No, do not drill out the rivets The lock comes out the back side. Disassemble the push rod and the parts on the back side to remove the tumbler. It may be easiest to pull the whole lock assembly out of the car before you try to remove the tumbler. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Brock Tella Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 3:22 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Trunk lock I searched everywhere but could not find the answer. I ordered a new tumbler and keys but can not figure out how to replace it. Do the rivets holding the chrome assembly to the metal latch have to be drilled out? Any advice would be appreciated. Sent from my laptop located in my kitchen. ____________________________________________________________ Find the medical school that's right for you. Click to request info today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oIq84bnlHX3kZJkhxpmKArtV0 XdCnIqyvrwQKrkfMFomphA/ You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 8/22/2008 6:48 AM From rfraser at bluefrog.com Fri Aug 22 17:17:17 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:17:17 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Trunk lock In-Reply-To: <20080822.155129.196.84.BrockCTella@juno.com> Message-ID: <000001c904ad$39f79530$6cb21840@ronpc1> I just pulled the trunk lock assembly I took apart. I was wrong the rivets have to be drilled out to replace the tumbler. There is a spring in there so you need to be careful when you drill the rivets; use a clamp to hold the chrome piece to the assembly. The threaded rod threads into the base of the tumbler through a keyed spacer which slides through the key way on the sheet metal assembly under the chrome outer part. Hope that helps now. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: Brock Tella [mailto:brockctella at juno.com] Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 6:51 PM To: rfraser at bluefrog.com Subject: Re: [Tigers] Trunk lock Ron,thanks for the help. I got all three of the"nuts" off but the tumbler still will not come out.Its attached to the threaded rod, Any ideas/ thanks On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:19:13 -0400 " Ron Fraser" writes: > No, do not drill out the rivets > > The lock comes out the back side. > > Disassemble the push rod and the parts on the back side to remove > the > tumbler. > > It may be easiest to pull the whole lock assembly out of the car > before you > try to remove the tumbler. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of > Brock Tella > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 3:22 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Trunk lock > > > I searched everywhere but could not find the answer. > I ordered a new tumbler and keys but can not figure out how to > replace it. > Do the rivets holding the chrome assembly to the metal latch have to > be > drilled out? Any advice would be appreciated. Sent from my laptop > located in > my kitchen. > ____________________________________________________________ > Find the medical school that's right for you. Click to request info > today. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oIq84bnlHX3kZJkhxpmKAr tV0 > XdCnIqyvrwQKrkfMFomphA/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: > 8/22/2008 > 6:48 AM > > > Sent from my laptop located in my kitchen. ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the satellite television package that meets your needs. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mzvzTcfchu1rqIEnQl2vfJfec IYwwRWm2JJyzJ298P4ZFk1/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 8/22/2008 6:48 AM From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri Aug 22 17:38:45 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:38:45 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] SPEED TV & Tigers In-Reply-To: <000201c904a5$1d46bd60$51921840@ronpc1> References: <000201c904a5$1d46bd60$51921840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <48AF4E05.5010507@SoCal.rr.com> Tigers, I am sure most of you know about the Cable TV channel SPEED, and it's "101 Cars You must Drive!" series. Well, tonight's the night! At least on the West Coast, when you can see the episode "A Bit of All Right" featuring the MG-A and the *_Sunbeam Tiger_* ! On Channel 266 (at least on Time-Warner Cable) it is on Sunday at 5:30PM PDT and again on Monday at 1:30 PM PDT. There are many other episodes, seemingly in order, with Cars from "Pulp Fiction", "Bond, Blowers, Buick's, etc.", "Edsel and Ferrari Dino", Meyer's Manx "Playing in the Dirt", "Party over where?", "Wankel's and Wankers", and "The Bird is the Word", "Just Here for the Sex" (cars), and "Street Racing Then and Now". All following each other. Half-hour shows. "See it, Record it, or Regret it!" Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com From glowboy at starstream.net Fri Aug 22 18:20:53 2008 From: glowboy at starstream.net (DERRICK SCHMIDT) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:20:53 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: <200808221720.AA528744746@mail.starstream.net> Try a youth sports discussion board some time if you want to get tangential! Most keyboards have more than one delete key. Derrick ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Randy Zimmermann Reply-To: zimme008 at yahoo.com Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:01:40 -0700 (PDT) >I don't know why this needs to be said yet again but apparently it does: > >This is a list about Sunbeam cars and Tigers in particular! ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.starstream.net From gswaybright at yahoo.com Fri Aug 22 19:36:07 2008 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] SPEED TV & Tigers In-Reply-To: <48AF4E05.5010507@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <902388.43232.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you have DirecTV, I have found that the episode listing has not matched the actual content of 101 cars... yet. Fortunately I was recording all episodes and got the one with the Tiger under the episode listed for Edsels and the Ferrri Dino. --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Steve Laifman wrote: > From: Steve Laifman > Subject: [Tigers] SPEED TV & Tigers > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 7:38 PM > Tigers, > > I am sure most of you know about the Cable TV channel > SPEED, and it's > "101 Cars You must Drive!" series. > > Well, tonight's the night! At least on the West Coast, > when you can see > the episode "A Bit of All Right" featuring the > MG-A and the *_Sunbeam > Tiger_* ! > > On Channel 266 (at least on Time-Warner Cable) it is on > Sunday at 5:30PM > PDT and again on Monday at 1:30 PM PDT. > > There are many other episodes, seemingly in order, with > Cars from "Pulp > Fiction", "Bond, Blowers, Buick's, > etc.", "Edsel and Ferrari Dino", > Meyer's Manx "Playing in the Dirt", > "Party over where?", "Wankel's and > Wankers", and "The Bird is the Word", > "Just Here for the Sex" (cars), > and "Street Racing Then and Now". All following > each other. Half-hour > shows. > > "See it, Record it, or Regret it!" > > Steve From tigerlat70 at comcast.net Fri Aug 22 19:49:04 2008 From: tigerlat70 at comcast.net (Steve Coleman) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:49:04 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] FW: Sunbeam Cars Message-ID: <014201c904c2$6d324f70$b770d262@stevesdell> I was in Borders and they have a new mag called Retro Cars from England, they have a modified Sunbeam Stiletto on the cover, inside they have a good spread on it, very supped up. http://www.retrocarsmag.com/ Also there is a big article on Hillman Avenger Tigers and Sunbeam Lotus, I found these for sale. http://www.motorbase.com/profiles/vehicle/picture.ehtml?i=911454851;p=199496 4632 SC From chris at cthompson.net Fri Aug 22 20:02:15 2008 From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:02:15 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200808221720.AA528744746@mail.starstream.net> References: <200808221720.AA528744746@mail.starstream.net> Message-ID: <48AF6FA7.6060001@cthompson.net> It starts with the delete key and the next step is unsub$cribe. I don't mind the discussion of lead, but when it gets into the politics of it, you're sure to really piss off half of the group regardless of your position. We're already fragmented enough without forming separate left-wing and right-wing Tiger lists. Let's stay focused here or I'll be yet another lister to unsub$cribe.... Chris DERRICK SCHMIDT wrote: > Most keyboards have more than one delete key. > > Derrick From Landcmitch at aol.com Fri Aug 22 21:34:02 2008 From: Landcmitch at aol.com (Landcmitch at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:34:02 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Auctions Message-ID: I see that the Tiger sold for $71,500. Do we hope that this is a trend? Charlie In a message dated 8/18/2008 11:21:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com writes: Sandy, & Tigers, The Russo and Steele auction lists a 1965 Tiger (VIN: B9470741) and can be seen at their site: Tiger at Russo and Steele The R&M Monterey Auction does not list a Sunbeam, but the auction entries and prices can be seen at: RM Monterey Auction Results Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Sandy Ganz wrote: > Just pulled back in from Monterey, and saw a Tiger that didn't sell at auction. I think the Reserve was 75K, and it got into the low 60's. I'm a bit fuzzy as It's late, I have some pics of it as well. > Sandy You are subscribed as landcmitch at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From mmichels at socal.rr.com Fri Aug 22 22:27:57 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:27:57 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion References: <001901c90486$c0ea0220$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <002701c904d8$9ee14420$6401a8c0@delldimension> I couldn't agree more. Let's stick to Tiger topics, please. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Nichols" To: Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 11:41 AM Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > "I don't know why this needs to be said yet again but apparently it does: > > This is a list about Sunbeam cars and Tigers in particular! There are > plenty > of alternate channels in cyberspace to exchange views on the bigger issues > of > the day. Personally, it spoils the beginning of my day to have to read > messages like this below. Call it selfish of me, but I own my Tiger for > pleasure and subscribe to this list for the exchange of information about > maintaining and continuing to derive pleasure from this unique Sunbeam > car." > > > I agree, lets talk about TAC or that S.O.B. Carroll Shelby or Algers or > resto-mod versus original or which part vendors suck or ...........? And > forget about Liberal wienies or tree hugging Greenies or Conservative > selfish > meanies! > > > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 05:35:11 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:35:11 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Chilling Friday Video In-Reply-To: <259766.10827.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <259766.10827.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808230435w2bce095fke164e7003d35ba5c@mail.gmail.com> speaking of which, that video prodded me into action and after a couple of weeks of research i test drove an r5 turbo2 this morning. its a truly amazing car - i've never driven anything so fast through corners. this was a very original car with the factory 185hp upgrade. i'm probably going to buy it, but i'm looking at a couple of others next week. there are only 50 of them in the UK. On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Sandy Ganz wrote: > Well with all this heated discussion on lead, how about a nice cool video to change the mood. While not quite as fun as the R5 Turbo Video, this on is amusing unless you have seasons with snow... > http://www.motorator.com/videos/394 > Enjoy > Sandy > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From CoolVT at aol.com Sat Aug 23 07:45:01 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:45:01 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Vibration report Message-ID: I wrote a few days ago on a vibration that I felt after installing new wheels/tires on my car. I put my old wheels/tires back on and vibration gone. That was a relief. At least the problem was narrowed to the wheels and not something in the engine or drivetrain. I took the wheels back to Tire Warehouse for rechecking. They found that the 2 rear tires were out of round...factory defects. I called Tire Rack where I purchased them and they are shipping replacements, no questions asked. The tires were mid range Kumho's. A note on the balancing.....the local Tire Warehouse has, what I have heard, is one of the best machines going....Hunter #9700. Of course the machine isn't any better than the person operating it. Must be that the first balancer just wasn't careful or he would have found the problems when he first did them. Yesterday I was able to stand there and watch the rebalancing. The Hunter machine has a gauge to measure any irregularities of the wheel, both side to side problems and wheel roundness. The machine also has a roller that goes against the wheel to check the roundness of the tire. It puts pressure against the tire and the wheel, in a perfect tire, will "feel" uniform pressure around the entire circumference of the tire. Non are perfect so there is an accepted allowance for variance of 26 lb.. Under this amount and the machines computer shows a graph and says OK. Over this it shows the reading and FAIL. One of my rear tires read 34 lb. and the other 29 lb. One of my fronts was at 24 lb. and the guy said not to worry. It was acceptable and very common. I was told that one of the few tires that came through as being as close to perfect as possible was Michelin. Apparently they do some hand trimming and balancing before they leave the factory? Okay, so that's what I learned about my vibration and the Hunter balancer. Now it's just waiting for the replacement tires. And, by the way, Tire Rack is covering the cost of shipping the new tires and the cost of picking up the defective ones. Sounds like I have to eat the cost of 2 new remounting and balancing. Mark L. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From atwittsend at verizon.net Sat Aug 23 11:17:22 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:17:22 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration report References: Message-ID: <000b01c90544$1b504450$0302a8c0@student2> Mark, Glad to hear the probelem was resolved. I have been happy to be a Tire Rack customer myself. I'm curious, did the shop have a tire lathe? I can't say I have seen the service offered most places, but then buying tires isn't something I do everyday. Y-e-a-r-s ago there was a place in Pasadena called "Caldwell Tire" that would true up the tire once it was mounted (for a fee). I silently questioned their rational that removing tread actually prolonged tire life - especially since the tire flexed and has a near flat contact patch with the road. But who knows. Flat spots can be hard to see, but sure can be felt. I bought a set of wheels/tires at Pick A Part recently for my Turbo Pinto. Seemed like a good deal until I drove on the tires. Running the pressure low and trying to squeeze the flat spot out didn't work, nor did over inflating them. Being cheap like I am, I jacked the back of my car and with the wheel spinning heald my power planner to it. Well..., it made for a lot of thin rubber debris, but I still had the "thwamp." As a side note to "lead weights:" I remember years ago when horizontal bubble levels were used for balancing that the guy would move the tire around the rim BEFORE mounting to minimize the amount of weights needed. With most modern balances that hold the tire vertical I doubt they do it now. Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1629 - Release Date: 8/23/2008 1:16 PM From CoolVT at aol.com Sat Aug 23 11:47:31 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 13:47:31 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Vibration report Message-ID: Tom, I don't think this place had any kind of a lathe to trim the tires. If they did I wouldn't want them trimming off new tires for me. Supposedly if they are less than 26lb.off then you shouldn't feel anything until you get over 100mph. Guess I'll have to remember that:-) I remember the old rayon tires would develop flat spots especially if they were parked suddenly when they were very hot. Supposedly you had to get them up to the same previous temp. and let them cool gradually to get the flat spot out. I've heard that idea more than once, but never got into it. I still have one of those bubble levels and a selection of those dreaded lead weights. They could get things a little close, but nothing near the accuracy of today's machines. M **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Sat Aug 23 12:55:40 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:55:40 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Vibration report In-Reply-To: <000b01c90544$1b504450$0302a8c0@student2> References: <000b01c90544$1b504450$0302a8c0@student2> Message-ID: <48B05D2C.9060609@SoCal.rr.com> Tom & Mark, "Back-in-the-day", as they now say, my 1954 Jaguar XK120M had finally wore down the Dunlop treads after 10K miles. I had them re-capped with the original "*Dunlop Racing*" block tread. They had a tire lathe they used to round the tire, as most retreads (and some new tires) were not actually round! When I left, and got on the freeway, I heard sirens behind me. Well, either I'm going to get a ticket again (cops hated sports cars) or there is a fire ahead. To my surprise the emergency vehicles did not come by, but appeared to be going at freeway speed. I found out that as I slowed down to exit, the sirens faded into the distance! Well, I found out that the "sirens" were my "block racing treads" tires screaming on the road! :-D (lol) Lasted a lot longer than the original "natural rubber" tire tread, and rode smoothly if you ignore the sirens! While I do not recommend retreads, many new tires aren't round, so it is worthwhile to make them "round" with a lathe. The miles you lose to tread removal are nothing compared to an unbalance able wheel wear. My "Michelin X" radials (later) were really good. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Thomas Witt wrote: > Mark, > <--- snip ---> > > Flat spots can be hard to see, but sure can be felt. I bought a set of > wheels/tires at Pick A Part recently for my Turbo Pinto. Seemed like a good > deal until I drove on the tires. Running the pressure low and trying to > squeeze the flat spot out didn't work, nor did over inflating them. Being > cheap like I am, I jacked the back of my car and with the wheel spinning > heald my power planner to it. Well..., it made for a lot of thin rubber > debris, but I still had the "thwamp." > > As a side note to "lead weights:" I remember years ago when horizontal > bubble levels were used for balancing that the guy would move the tire > around the rim BEFORE mounting to minimize the amount of weights needed. > With most modern balances that hold the tire vertical I doubt they do it > now. > Tom From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 23 13:01:29 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:01:29 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] R5 Turbo Message-ID: <000a01c90552$a6efcb80$6401a8c0@your03667082de> "speaking of which, that video prodded me into action and after a couple of weeks of research i test drove an r5 turbo2 this morning. its a truly amazing car - i've never driven anything so fast through corners. this was a very original car with the factory 185hp upgrade. i'm probably going to buy it, but i'm looking at a couple of others next week. there are only 50 of them in the UK." Is that the Renault turbo Le Car(as it was known in the USA) ? I hope its better than the Renault Fuego Turbo I had back in the 80's. That car was a complete piece of *&%! The year I owned it it was one disaster after another. Timing chain slipped, turbo burned out, refused to start for two days straight and then mysteriously started up and had to cancel the tow truck ready to haul it to the dealer, muti-speed wiper decided it was a one speed wiper that parked randomly on the window when shut off., parking brake light went on for no apparent reason....etc. Had to buy another car and spent two months trying to sell the Fuego. Jeff From clydemclaughlin at verizon.net Sat Aug 23 13:07:40 2008 From: clydemclaughlin at verizon.net (Clyde McLaughlin) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:07:40 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tire Balance Message-ID: <002601c90553$83987140$6700a8c0@chesapeake4> the late model Hunter machines will also do a "matched Balance" you balance the Wheel along first, then mount the tire and check balance, if weight is excessive it will tell you how to ro tate the tire on the wheel to obtain the best match between tire and wheel, this can be time consuming, thus expensive, but I have found it worth the time, but I have my own machine, we do a lot of this for sensitive BMW front ends...I have also seen where cars that aren't driven daily the tires get a temporary flat spot from sitting in one place, if this happens inflate to 60 psi or so and leave in the hot sun, then drive....when the flat spot levels out deflate to proper pressure...tires with any nylon cords can be very prone to this....all cars using after market wheels will be prone to careful mounting because they are not hub centric...I'm going to make sleaves for my Mini Lites, for now I have installed them with the cone shaped regular lug nuts and then rpl'g one at atime with the shouldered correct nuts, this helps, but isn't perfect...it's frustating because the wheels and tires are perfectly straight and have balanced nicely, but when rotated slowly on the car you can see a small amount of run out, thus some vibration at certain speeds...Clyde From sralsten at ca.rr.com Sat Aug 23 13:13:51 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:13:51 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Russo Steele Tiger Message-ID: <13043727.494731219518831913.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web22-z02> Early afternnon Friday I got a phone call from John Bemmis at Russo to see if I was interested in the car. I had contacted them to register as a phone bidder for that car. I told John I had since purchased another car. This deal must have happened late yesterday. Steve I see that the Tiger sold for $71,500. Do we hope that this is a trend? Charlie In a message dated 8/18/2008 11:21:19 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com writes: Sandy, & Tigers, The Russo and Steele auction lists a 1965 Tiger (VIN: B9470741) and can be seen at their site: Tiger at Russo and Steele The R&M Monterey Auction does not list a Sunbeam, but the auction entries and prices can be seen at: RM Monterey Auction Results From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sat Aug 23 13:30:26 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:30:26 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] R5 Turbo In-Reply-To: <000a01c90552$a6efcb80$6401a8c0@your03667082de> References: <000a01c90552$a6efcb80$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <39a841b0808231230h428b3a27q4fb2cbe31ccad5ef@mail.gmail.com> oh, yes, they were terrible indeed. yes, it was called the le car turbo sometimes in the us although it was never officially sold there and none were badged 'le car'. its really nothing like a normal renault 5 (le car) at all. they were hand made by renault sport in dieppe and they only made a few thousand, initially just to homologate it as a group 4 / group b rally car. the engine came out of the renault formula 1 development program and is mid mounted driving the rear wheels through a 5 speed transaxle. its about 10" wider than a normal renault 5 and all the suspension and rear subframe looks like a hand made race car. they had between 160 and 350 hp from that little 1.4l 4 cylinder, weigh well under 1000kg and can pull about 1G through a corner. the works group B cars with the 350hp motors were called the 'maxi'. so its quite a little beast! On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > "speaking of which, that video prodded me into action and after a > couple of weeks of research i test drove an r5 turbo2 this morning. > its a truly amazing car - i've never driven anything so fast through > corners. this was a very original car with the factory 185hp upgrade. > i'm probably going to buy it, but i'm looking at a couple of others > next week. there are only 50 of them in the UK." > > > Is that the Renault turbo Le Car(as it was known in the USA) ? I hope its > better than the Renault Fuego Turbo I had back in the 80's. That car was a > complete piece of *&%! The year I owned it it was one disaster after > another. Timing chain slipped, turbo burned out, refused to start for two > days straight and then mysteriously started up and had to cancel the tow > truck ready to haul it to the dealer, muti-speed wiper decided it was a one > speed wiper that parked randomly on the window when shut off., parking > brake light went on for no apparent reason....etc. Had to buy another car > and spent two months trying to sell the Fuego. > > > > Jeff From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Sat Aug 23 13:53:27 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:53:27 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow Message-ID: <48B06AB7.1020507@SoCal.rr.com> "/I've never seen a purple car, I never hope to see one, But I can tell you, anyhow, I'd rather see than be one./" If you desire to see what I'm talking about: 1966 Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop In any event, the web site "Serious Wheels " is worth browsing through. Great Pics. Steve -- ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com From mrlau at charter.net Sat Aug 23 14:02:36 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:02:36 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: <48B06AB7.1020507@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20080823200241.KYHO29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Weren't some of the Dodges in the early 70's purple? -- Bill -- "/I've never seen a purple car, I never hope to see one, But I can tell you, anyhow, I'd rather see than be one./" If you desire to see what I'm talking about: 1966 Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop In any event, the web site "Serious Wheels " is worth browsing through. Great Pics. Steve -- ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com From itswonderful at comcast.net Sat Aug 23 14:11:44 2008 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 13:11:44 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: <20080823200241.KYHO29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> References: <48B06AB7.1020507@SoCal.rr.com> <20080823200241.KYHO29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <003c01c9055c$77351f30$0801a8c0@FPMengineering> There were some factory purple cars produced in the early 70's. I have a "Black Orchid" '72 MGB-GT. Black Orchid is really a dark or deep purple (pun intended). Believe it or not because of the color these "Black Orchid" cars are slightly more desirable than the same car in other colors, at least by some collectors. Frank in Cloverdale > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of William Lau > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 1:03 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Purple Cow > > Weren't some of the Dodges in the early 70's purple? -- Bill -- > > "/I've never seen a purple car, > I never hope to see one, > But I can tell you, anyhow, > I'd rather see than be one./" > > If you desire to see what I'm talking about: > > 1966 Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop > FA > .htm> > > In any event, the web site "Serious Wheels > " is worth browsing through. > Great Pics. > > Steve > > -- > ___ > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as itswonderful at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From itswonderful at comcast.net Sat Aug 23 14:13:08 2008 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 13:13:08 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: <20080823200241.KYHO29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> References: <48B06AB7.1020507@SoCal.rr.com> <20080823200241.KYHO29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <003d01c9055c$a91474b0$0801a8c0@FPMengineering> Sorry, "Black Tulip" is the color. Keeping pretty busy today, sorry about that. Frank There were some factory purple cars produced in the early 70's. I have a "Black Orchid" '72 MGB-GT. Black Orchid is really a dark or deep purple (pun intended). Believe it or not because of the color these "Black Orchid" cars are slightly more desirable than the same car in other colors, at least by some collectors. Frank in Cloverdale > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of William Lau > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 1:03 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Purple Cow > > Weren't some of the Dodges in the early 70's purple? -- Bill -- > > "/I've never seen a purple car, > I never hope to see one, > But I can tell you, anyhow, > I'd rather see than be one./" > > If you desire to see what I'm talking about: > > 1966 Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop > FA > .htm> > > In any event, the web site "Serious Wheels > " is worth browsing through. > Great Pics. > > Steve > > -- > ___ > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as itswonderful at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Sat Aug 23 15:20:41 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:20:41 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: <48B06AB7.1020507@SoCal.rr.com> References: <48B06AB7.1020507@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <48B07F29.1070406@SoCal.rr.com> Sorry that the "hot link" was incorrectly underscored by the "List" protocol. Underscore all below, and past it into your browser: Should include the end "-FA.htm" if this one is "cropped too. ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Steve Laifman wrote: > "/I've never seen a purple car, > I never hope to see one, > But I can tell you, anyhow, > I'd rather see than be one./" > > If you desire to see what I'm talking about: > > 1966 Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop > > > In any event, the web site "Serious Wheels > " is worth browsing through. > Great Pics. > > Steve From DJoh797014 at aol.com Sat Aug 23 15:28:33 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:28:33 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tire Balance Message-ID: Have pity on us LAT 9 owners. No center hole makes balanceing a chore. Good luck finding someone to do it. My guy in Chicago still has strobe lights and spins them on the cars. Spins the front with a machine and jacks the rear and spins the rear with the motor. Front are balanced at about 110. Rears are at 55 since I don't have positraction. Perfect balance. All other spin balancers won't grab the LAT-9. You can watch when he spins the front tire and watch the fender shake. When he's done, you can put a glass of water on the fender and its like a glass lake. The Mopar nut and WPC member has pity on us Pentssatr drivers and only charges $10 a wheel. Yes he used lead weight. I hope he lives forever. Bill Meisner, Meisner Alignment in Glen Ellyn, IL. Dave with balanced LAT-9's In a message dated 8/23/2008 2:08:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, clydemclaughlin at verizon.net writes: the late model Hunter machines will also do a "matched Balance" you balance the Wheel along first, then mount the tire and check balance, if weight is excessive it will tell you how to ro tate the tire on the wheel to obtain the best match between tire and wheel, this can be time consuming, thus expensive, but I have found it worth the time, but I have my own machine, we do a lot of this for sensitive BMW front ends...I have also seen where cars that aren't driven daily the tires get a temporary flat spot from sitting in one place, if this happens inflate to 60 psi or so and leave in the hot sun, then drive....when the flat spot levels out deflate to proper pressure...tires with any nylon cords can be very prone to this....all cars using after market wheels will be prone to careful mounting because they are not hub centric...I'm going to make sleaves for my Mini Lites, for now I have installed them with the cone shaped regular lug nuts and then rpl'g one at atime with the shouldered correct nuts, this helps, but isn't perfect...it's frustating because the wheels and tires are perfectly straight and have balanced nicely, but when rotated slowly on the car you can see a small amount of run out, thus some vibration at certain speeds...Clyde You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From achd73 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 23 15:54:32 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: <48B07F29.1070406@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <393765.82688.qm@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The color isnt so bad but the rear view mirror thats glued to the windshield is more desireable.TtT --- On Sat, 8/23/08, Steve Laifman wrote: > From: Steve Laifman > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Purple Cow > To: "Tiger's Den" > Date: Saturday, August 23, 2008, 4:20 PM > Sorry that the "hot link" was incorrectly > underscored by the "List" > protocol. > > Underscore all below, and past it into your browser: > > > > Should include the end "-FA.htm" if this one is > "cropped too. > > ___ > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > > > > Steve Laifman wrote: > > "/I've never seen a purple car, > > I never hope to see one, > > But I can tell you, anyhow, > > I'd rather see than be one./" > > > > If you desire to see what I'm talking about: > > > > 1966 Sunbeam Tiger Hardtop > > > > > > > In any event, the web site "Serious Wheels > > " > is worth browsing through. > > Great Pics. > > > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Sat Aug 23 16:14:10 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:14:10 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow Message-ID: The best part is the Purple tow tabs. In a message dated 8/23/2008 2:55:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, achd73 at yahoo.com writes: http://www.seriouswheels.com/1960-1969/1966-Sunbeam-Tiger-Hardtop-Purple-FA.ht m **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Sat Aug 23 17:33:21 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:33:21 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000501c90578$a16e3ae0$6401a8c0@jerry> Yea, the tow tabs with the rebar to connect then. Real classy. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of AAAGLASSS at aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 5:14 PM To: achd73 at yahoo.com; tigers at Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Purple Cow The best part is the Purple tow tabs. In a message dated 8/23/2008 2:55:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, achd73 at yahoo.com writes: http://www.seriouswheels.com/1960-1969/1966-Sunbeam-Tiger-Hardtop-Purple-FA. ht m **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From dickbarker at earthlink.net Sat Aug 23 19:57:05 2008 From: dickbarker at earthlink.net (Dick Barker) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:57:05 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow Message-ID: In a message dated Sat. 23 Aug 2008, Steve Laifman wrote: "I've never seen a purple car, I never hope to see one, But I can tell you, anyhow, I'd rather see than be one." ---------- Check these pages on Norm Miller's "Rootes One" website to see my candidate for what was once the most tasteless purple Tiger ever! http://www.rootes1.com/index.asp http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/protos/proto-3.htm Thanks Mr. Kambourian! X;{ Dick From CoolVT at aol.com Sat Aug 23 20:08:45 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:08:45 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes Message-ID: For some time I've wanted to experiment with different scoops and cooling holes in a hood. I've never wanted to start hacking up my original hood. Now I've acquired a proper square corner Alpine that I can play with and not feel guilty. So, I'm thinking that there has to be something better than the LAT hood for cooling. I'm trying to remember back to some of the information that been passed on about this subject. If I remember the information correctly, the LAT scoop will not really bring in much fresh air because it's at a low pressure area of the car. It might help more as a means of releasing under hood hot air. I don't know what the pressure area is where the hood meets the cowl in front of the windshield, but if I leave my hood propped open about an inch I don't see much difference at all in engine temperature. So it makes me wonder how much air is escaping. I'd like something that doesn't look too outrageous, but still might help in cooling. My thought has been a scoop about twice as wide at the LAT, but maybe a little lower....resulting in about 50% more open area. Also I'm wondering if an almost equal sized hole at the rear of the scoop would help. Seems like I remember from science class something about the Bernoulli (sp?) effect. Air coming in the front of the scoop and passing out the rear would create a low pressure inside of the scoop and suck air out of the engine compartment? But, if the front of the scoop is really a low pressure area, how much air will really pass through? So, if you were starting with a clean slate and a hood that you weren't worried about and still wanted something that looked sort of period correct, what would you design that might help in cooling? Mark L **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From dickbarker at earthlink.net Sat Aug 23 20:48:23 2008 From: dickbarker at earthlink.net (Dick Barker) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:48:23 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Redux: Purple Cow Message-ID: Apparently the links were faulty in my previous message regarding a purple Tiger. Try these links to see what was once the most tasteless purple Tiger ever: http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/pieces/tech1e.htm http://www.classictiger.com/mudge/protos/proto-3.htm Again, my thanks to Ron Kambourian. Dick From sralsten at ca.rr.com Sun Aug 24 00:05:10 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (Steve Ralsten) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:05:10 -0800 Subject: [Tigers] Re Purple cow Message-ID: <000d01c905af$5e3b2580$6501a8c0@DELL4600> I had a 92 Vette in factory color "black rose" Really nice deep purple color sort of a metallic eggplant. Steve From shutchin at netjets.com Sun Aug 24 06:48:54 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:48:54 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes Message-ID: >From what I have read out there about cooling issues regarding the tiger it's not about venting the engine compartment more. The Tigers United 'cool it buddy' seemed pretty right on. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ** ******* This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From jhef101 at aol.com Sun Aug 24 08:01:26 2008 From: jhef101 at aol.com (jhef101 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:01:26 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAD40908F16CF7-B10-52FA@Webmail-mg14.sim.aol.com> Mark, ??????? 10 years ago when I was running mine on the Arizona portion of RT. 66 during the early summer I experimented a bit and found that cracking my hood open about 2" would drop the temperature about 15-20 deg against an ambient of around 90-95 deg. I also blocked any holes in the radiator support that could be leaking air and creating a flow problem around the radiator. My radiator then and now is a Ron Davis Racing products aluminum unit. Best, Jeff Hefner B9470028 -----Original Message----- From: CoolVT at aol.com To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:08 pm Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes For some time I've wanted to experiment with different scoops and cooling holes in a hood. I've never wanted to start hacking up my original hood. Now I've acquired a proper square corner Alpine that I can play with and not feel guilty. So, I'm thinking that there has to be something better than the LAT hood for cooling. I'm trying to remember back to some of the information that been passed on about this subject. If I remember the information correctly, the LAT scoop will not really bring in much fresh air because it's at a low pressure area of the car. It might help more as a means of releasing under hood hot air. I don't know what the pressure area is where the hood meets the cowl in front of the windshield, but if I leave my hood propped open about an inch I don't see much difference at all in engine temperature. So it makes me wonder how much air is escaping. I'd like something that doesn't look too outrageous, but still might help in cooling. My thought has been a scoop about twice as wide at the LAT, but maybe a little lower....resulting in about 50% more open area. Also I'm wondering if an almost equal sized hole at the rear of the scoop would help. Seems like I remember from science class something about the Bernoulli (sp?) effect. Air coming in the front of the scoop and passing out the rear would create a low pressure inside of the scoop and suck air out of the engine compartment? But, if the front of the scoop is really a low pressure area, how much air will really pass through? So, if you were starting with a clean slate and a hood that you weren't worried about and still wanted something that looked sort of period correct, what would you design that might help in cooling? Mark L **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) You are subscribed as jhef101 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From RSSmithIQ at cs.com Sun Aug 24 09:20:51 2008 From: RSSmithIQ at cs.com (Randy Smith) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:20:51 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Seat Handle Message-ID: <48B17C53.2050501@cs.com> Does anyone have a source for the handles on the stock seat back tilt levers? My handles are missing. Rick at Sunbeam Specialties says he doesn't know any place to get them. Thanks for any help- Randy -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ at cs.com Tiger- B382000189 From sganz at pacbell.net Sun Aug 24 12:50:06 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] L.A. Shelby Club Willowsprings Event Message-ID: <263131.40161.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The L.A. Shelby Club is hosting the Annual Streets of Willow event. It is Septemeber 27th and 28th Great event for this that are local to the Los Angeles Area. Cost is $195 for members, $205 for non. Space always limited and the best group to run with if you don't want to beat your car and have a good 2 days of driving. Check out the Club Site at www.lasaac.org, If down, I posted a link the PDF application off my Site just incase their site gets hacked again... Sandy From rfraser at bluefrog.com Sun Aug 24 13:09:02 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:09:02 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: <20080823200241.KYHO29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <000001c9061c$e0649970$b0921840@ronpc1> Bill 1970 & 71 Plum Crazy is the name of the color. I know a MoPar guy who has an AAR Cuda that color. Also in those years color line up for Dodge are; Sublime, Green Go, Go Mango, Panther Pink, Hemi Orange and Top Banana Yellow. All the car manufactures had colorful names for some of there paints those years, AMC had Big Bad colors, Ford had Grabber colors, Chevy had Race Track names for colors; LeMans Blue, Daytona Yellow, Riverside Gold, to name just a few. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Lau Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 4:03 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Purple Cow Weren't some of the Dodges in the early 70's purple? -- Bill -- From mrlau at charter.net Sun Aug 24 14:13:28 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:13:28 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: <000001c9061c$e0649970$b0921840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <20080824201336.NTCG10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> I never cared much for those colors but might have been too old to appreciate them at the time. I'll bet that AAR Cuda is even more valuable at this time because of its color. -- Bill -- Bill 1970 & 71 Plum Crazy is the name of the color. I know a MoPar guy who has an AAR Cuda that color. Also in those years color line up for Dodge are; Sublime, Green Go, Go Mango, Panther Pink, Hemi Orange and Top Banana Yellow. All the car manufactures had colorful names for some of there paints those years, AMC had Big Bad colors, Ford had Grabber colors, Chevy had Race Track names for colors; LeMans Blue, Daytona Yellow, Riverside Gold, to name just a few. Ron Fraser Weren't some of the Dodges in the early 70's purple? -- Bill -- From v8tracker at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 16:02:11 2008 From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:02:11 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: <20080824201336.NTCG10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <000001c9061c$e0649970$b0921840@ronpc1> <20080824201336.NTCG10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: I had never seen a purple Tiger And hoped I'd never see one. But I'd rather see a purple Tiger than Not see a Tiger, ever, again. I least some one likes it enough to paint it and wash it and drive it and maintain it and show it to other people. And even if the tow hooks are purple, at least he takes it places. A. C. Tynes New Orleans From shutchin at netjets.com Sun Aug 24 16:52:03 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:52:03 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow Message-ID: Amen to that.... ;) Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From rfraser at bluefrog.com Sun Aug 24 17:29:19 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:29:19 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Seat Handle In-Reply-To: <48B17C53.2050501@cs.com> Message-ID: <000401c90641$3d95fb10$69b31840@ronpc1> Randy I'm pretty sure you will need to find a used part for this one. Don't over look the possibility that an MG or other British car might have a handle that would work. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randy Smith Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 11:21 AM To: Tiger List Serve Subject: [Tigers] Seat Handle Does anyone have a source for the handles on the stock seat back tilt levers? My handles are missing. Rick at Sunbeam Specialties says he doesn't know any place to get them. Thanks for any help- Randy -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ at cs.com Tiger- B382000189 _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM From achd73 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 24 18:35:40 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Seat Handle In-Reply-To: <000401c90641$3d95fb10$69b31840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <12905.29506.qm@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Randy- are you asking about the rubber/plastic piece that you grip when adjusting the seat back or the adjuster to slide the seat/ TtT --- On Sun, 8/24/08, Ron Fraser wrote: > From: Ron Fraser > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Seat Handle > To: "'Randy Smith'" , "'Tiger List Serve'" > Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 6:29 PM > Randy > I'm pretty sure you will need to find a used part for > this one. > Don't over look the possibility that an MG or other > British car might have a > handle that would work. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] > On Behalf Of > Randy Smith > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 11:21 AM > To: Tiger List Serve > Subject: [Tigers] Seat Handle > > > Does anyone have a source for the handles on the stock seat > back tilt > levers? My handles are missing. Rick at Sunbeam > Specialties says he > doesn't know any place to get them. > > Thanks for any help- Randy > -- > > Randy Smith > INNER QUEST, Inc. > 34752 Charles Town Pike > Purcellville, VA 20132 > 703-478-1078 > 540-668-6699 > 540-668-6253 fax > > InnerQuestOnline.com > > RSSmithIQ at cs.com > Tiger- B382000189 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release > Date: 8/24/2008 > 12:15 PM > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From achd73 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 24 18:41:59 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <270601.14498.qm@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well said Sir! TtT --- On Sun, 8/24/08, A. C. Tynes wrote: > From: A. C. Tynes > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Purple Cow > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 5:02 PM > I had never seen a purple Tiger > And hoped I'd never see one. > But I'd rather see a purple Tiger than > Not see a Tiger, ever, again. > > > I least some one likes it enough to paint it and wash it > and drive it and > maintain it and show it to other people. And even if the > tow hooks are > purple, at least he takes it places. > > A. C. Tynes > New Orleans > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From dave at munroe.ca Sun Aug 24 18:55:03 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:55:03 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Cooling Problem Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EE357CA1A0549F9AA49D7D75DDC1B79@DavePC> Thanks to all who offered help with my overheating Tiger. Unfortunately, I had already purchased an alloy rad from a California Tiger owner, so I couldn't take advantage of many suggestions to recore my stock rad. I had also purchased a Miloden "stock replacement" water pump, and some other goodies including an 11" electric pusher fan, a plastic 14" ridgid 4-blade fan and a thermo with manual over-ride switch kit and a relay. I had a h*ll of a job to get the 3/4 inch thicker alloy rad into the car. The bottom of the rad interfered with the steering rack, and above it contacted the end of the Miloden water pump shaft. Against advice and perhaps better judgement, I was able to move the lower end of the rad mount about an inch without distorting anything important or visable, which allowed the rad to slide down in front of the rack. But the new water pump was just too much longer to safely squeeze into the available space. So I refitted my original pump, which in fact is in pretty good shape, and gave me the clearance I need. I installed the new 14" fan, and measuring the distance between the blades and the steering rack, there is no way I could put a 15" fan in there without contact. So it \ looks like my engine is lower than spec as has been suggested by some of you, with a recommendation to slide some washer-shims into the engine mounts to gain back some height. Maybe this winter.... The electric pusher fan went in like it came from the factory, as did the switches, wire, relays and wire harness. They work also, like gangbusters. The original shroud even went back in, although I have left the recommended fabrication of a piece to close the loop on the shroud to 360 deg of coverage, also until later. The result? Awesome! I have been road testing the new set-up for about three days, and have yet to see the temp gauge rise over 180 deg. Fortunately for me, I don't have to contend with SoCal or Arizona temperatures here in Nova Scotia, so I don't need to go to the heroic efforts required in 100/110+ temperatures ( But its a DRY heat!) so now I have to replace that 180 deg thermostat with a 190 and enjoy the success of this project. Some unforseen benefits: I have picked up about 10 psi of oil pressure when "hot" ( about 50 psi now at cruising speed of 60-70mph) The engine is much quieter, and the heat intrusion through the firewall and floor has virtually disappeared. Many thanks to all. Life is good in a cool Tiger! Dave Munroe in Nova Scotia From twojohnsons at cox.net Mon Aug 25 05:42:48 2008 From: twojohnsons at cox.net (Alvin Johnson) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:42:48 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes References: Message-ID: <00f401c906a7$b33b8fe0$3f4ddd48@13930193605348f> I don't know if it helped cooling, but it sure looked cool. I mirrored the louver pattern illustrated in Chittenden's "Performance Tuning the Sunbeam Tiger." At the time I did it, my Tiger had become a fair-weather only car, so the engine compartment didn't get messed from bad weather. Al J From FHSLOTH13 at aol.com Mon Aug 25 07:49:35 2008 From: FHSLOTH13 at aol.com (FHSLOTH13 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:49:35 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow Message-ID: The owner of the "Purple Cow" is a fellow in New York state. He has owned the car since new and drag raced it in the early - mid 70's. He's now in his mid-70's, but gets to as many shows and meets as he can. I believe he drives the car every day. Drag racing explains the tow tabs. The color is obviously a personal choice, but it does draw a crowd. Fred Baum 9470768 **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From RSSmithIQ at cs.com Mon Aug 25 08:08:07 2008 From: RSSmithIQ at cs.com (Randy Smith) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:08:07 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B2BCC7.4030302@cs.com> I remember seeing this car. It was at TE/AE United several years ago when it was held in Harrisburg, PA. Definitely set up in a drag race style as I remember. -Randy FHSLOTH13 at aol.com wrote: > The owner of the "Purple Cow" is a fellow in New York state. He has owned > the car since new and drag raced it in the early - mid 70's. > > He's now in his mid-70's, but gets to as many shows and meets as he can. I > believe he drives the car every day. > > Drag racing explains the tow tabs. > > The color is obviously a personal choice, but it does draw a crowd. > > Fred Baum > 9470768 > -- Randy Smith INNER QUEST, Inc. 34752 Charles Town Pike Purcellville, VA 20132 703-478-1078 540-668-6699 540-668-6253 fax InnerQuestOnline.com RSSmithIQ at cs.com Tiger- B382000189 From tym2 at comcast.net Mon Aug 25 08:25:05 2008 From: tym2 at comcast.net (tym2 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:25:05 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Purple Cow Message-ID: <082520081425.20104.48B2C0C0000E408E00004E882215593414CD03979B@comcast.net> I've seen this car many times at Limerock (CT) at the "Show of Shelbys" held on the Sunday before Labor Day. While I'm not fond of the color, the car is very nice - and so is the guy who owns it. Some purists might not like my yellow Tiger, (my bride calls it the nuclear banana) but I sure do. Tym McDowell -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Randy Smith > I remember seeing this car. It was at TE/AE United several years ago > when it was held in Harrisburg, PA. Definitely set up in a drag race > style as I remember. > > -Randy > > FHSLOTH13 at aol.com wrote: > > The owner of the "Purple Cow" is a fellow in New York state. He has owned > > the car since new and drag raced it in the early - mid 70's. > > > > He's now in his mid-70's, but gets to as many shows and meets as he can. I > > believe he drives the car every day. > > > > Drag racing explains the tow tabs. > > > > The color is obviously a personal choice, but it does draw a crowd. > > > > Fred Baum > > 9470768 > > > -- > > Randy Smith > INNER QUEST, Inc. > 34752 Charles Town Pike > Purcellville, VA 20132 > 703-478-1078 > 540-668-6699 > 540-668-6253 fax > > InnerQuestOnline.com > RSSmithIQ at cs.com > Tiger- B382000189 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tym2 at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 25 09:37:00 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:37:00 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes Message-ID: <001401c906c8$6ad77220$6401a8c0@your03667082de> "I don't know what the pressure area is where the hood meets the cowl in front of the windshield, but if I leave my hood propped open about an inch I don't see much difference at all in engine temperature. So it makes me wonder how much air is escaping." You may want to try a hood on the lines of the "Super Tiger" hood that is in the TBON. The scoop is reversed to pick up the high pressure air located by the windshield. . When stopped, the opening would vent hot air out of the engine compartment and while in motion it would have a ram-air affect for the carb. I've seen these turn up on Ebay every once in a while. Someone may have made a small run of this style hood back in the day. What ever happened to the "Super Tiger"? Does it still exist with the options Ian Garrard installed? Jeff From rfraser at bluefrog.com Mon Aug 25 10:38:39 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:38:39 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes In-Reply-To: <001401c906c8$6ad77220$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <000201c906d1$08fc6520$85b21840@ronpc1> Jeff Careful when you say ram-air affect for the carb. Ram-air affect works best when the scoop is sealed to the carb which will eliminate heat escaping from the engine because of the seal. I believe most scoops work the way you think they should at highway speeds and lower but everything changes very quickly, exponentially maybe the correct term here, as speed increases. Every car is different but a reversed scoop or any scoop that is not sealed to the carb can actually ram air past the carb creating a low pressure zone at the carb inducing a lean condition at high speed and that could grenade the engine. I'm no expert about this and I have never experimented with scoops so I have no real data about this subject . I'm simply relaying information that makes sense to me which I have gathered over the years. NASA took decades to make some scoops work the way they needed. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nichols Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:37 AM To: CoolVT at aol.com Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes "I don't know what the pressure area is where the hood meets the cowl in front of the windshield, but if I leave my hood propped open about an inch I don't see much difference at all in engine temperature. So it makes me wonder how much air is escaping." You may want to try a hood on the lines of the "Super Tiger" hood that is in the TBON. The scoop is reversed to pick up the high pressure air located by the windshield. . When stopped, the opening would vent hot air out of the engine compartment and while in motion it would have a ram-air affect for the carb. I've seen these turn up on Ebay every once in a while. Someone may have made a small run of this style hood back in the day. What ever happened to the "Super Tiger"? Does it still exist with the options Ian Garrard installed? Jeff You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 8/24/2008 12:15 PM From Drmoonstone at aol.com Mon Aug 25 14:23:29 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:23:29 EDT Subject: [Tigers] =?iso-8859-1?q?FW=3A=A0_Lead_Weights?= Message-ID: Oh my God, were all going to die of Mad Haters disease, plumbism, Chagas Disease.....ad nauseum. Were going to die period and most likely of our own stupidity. As an epidemiologist and forensic anthropologist, I'm shaking in my boots. I've instructed my family and friends that when I die to shoot me full of lead shot and drop me off in a condor area so the stupid Pleistocene losers well eat me and all die of lead poisoning. Moonstone P.S. Thanks for the warning (from someone) I'll make certain I won't serve roasted children from LA at my next backyard party. ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Mon Aug 25 14:24:46 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:24:46 EDT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: What? Moonstone ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From mrlau at charter.net Mon Aug 25 14:33:16 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:33:16 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] =?iso-8859-1?q?FW=3A=A0_Lead_Weights?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080825203322.KXRY29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> If Condors die from eating lead shot in your dead body, you will be in big trouble. Signed ------ Al Gore ------- _____ From: Drmoonstone at aol.com [mailto:Drmoonstone at aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:23 PM To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] FW: Lead Weights Oh my God, were all going to die of Mad Haters disease, plumbism, Chagas Disease.....ad nauseum. Were going to die period and most likely of our own stupidity. As an epidemiologist and forensic anthropologist, I'm shaking in my boots. I've instructed my family and friends that when I die to shoot me full of lead shot and drop me off in a condor area so the stupid Pleistocene losers well eat me and all die of lead poisoning. Moonstone P.S. Thanks for the warning (from someone) I'll make certain I won't serve roasted children from LA at my next backyard party. ) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Mon Aug 25 14:34:18 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:34:18 EDT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: The issue is directly related to our tigers. If balancing a tire especially an LAT wheel becomes more of a problem than it is now, what's next. Living in California we see the most ridiculous bans and laws forced down our throat. In the same vein as "prying my gun from my cold dead hands" I'll continue to drive my Tiger even when it's agianst the law. If you don't like the subect delete, it's just as simple as changing the station. This message is not directed at anyone in particular. Moonstone ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Mon Aug 25 14:54:15 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:54:15 EDT Subject: [Tigers] =?iso-8859-1?q?FW=3A=A0_Lead_Weights?= Message-ID: Somebody hide me, they're after me agian!! Moonstone (not my real name) but don't let "THEM" know. ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Mon Aug 25 15:09:44 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:09:44 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: OK, I don't like the color of your car nor do I like purple....pleasedstick to the things I'm interested in only. Then the list and world would be perfect. If anyone wants to talk about lead wheel weights great, or maybe save your energy for the time they want us to retro fit our Tigers with OBDII computers. Now that will be a discussion subject. I find it interesting that the same Tiger subject matter is discussed over and over while the resources other than this list can provide detailed info, is this also a problem that wastes time? Maybe we need a censor to weed out all the stupid stuff or stuff "we" don't want to talk about. Here's the clue, It all concerns us and Tigers! Moonstone ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From drmayf at mayfco.com Mon Aug 25 15:39:22 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:39:22 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] FW: Lead Weights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B3268A.6040408@mayfco.com> I love it! I have taken that position now as well. If ya don't want lead balance weights to kill ya don't eat then, lol... Same with all the other save the planet and humans junk. I have free will no need to tell me what the heck to do with my self, eh? What was that old flag...Don't tread on me? yeah that's my new creed.. mayf Drmoonstone at aol.com wrote: >Oh my God, were all going to die of Mad Haters disease, plumbism, Chagas >Disease.....ad nauseum. Were going to die period and most likely of our own >stupidity. As an epidemiologist and forensic anthropologist, I'm shaking in my >boots. I've instructed my family and friends that when I die to shoot me full of >lead shot and drop me off in a condor area so the stupid Pleistocene losers well >eat me and all die of lead poisoning. > >Moonstone > >P.S. Thanks for the warning (from someone) I'll make certain I won't serve >roasted children from LA at my next backyard party. > > >************** >It's only a >deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. > >(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From drmayf at mayfco.com Mon Aug 25 15:40:38 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:40:38 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] FW: Lead Weights In-Reply-To: <20080825203322.KXRY29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> References: <20080825203322.KXRY29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <48B326D6.5040409@mayfco.com> hey, Sean, tell me where you are gonna throw yourself...I need the lead shot as ballast weight in the LSR Sunbeam, lol.. mayf William Lau wrote: >If Condors die from eating lead shot in your dead body, you will be in big >trouble. Signed ------ Al Gore ------- > > > > _____ > >From: Drmoonstone at aol.com [mailto:Drmoonstone at aol.com] >Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:23 PM >To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Tigers] FW: Lead Weights > > > >Oh my God, were all going to die of Mad Haters disease, plumbism, Chagas >Disease.....ad nauseum. Were going to die period and most likely of our own >stupidity. As an epidemiologist and forensic anthropologist, I'm shaking in >my boots. I've instructed my family and friends that when I die to shoot me >full of lead shot and drop me off in a condor area so the stupid Pleistocene >losers well eat me and all die of lead poisoning. > >Moonstone > >P.S. Thanks for the warning (from someone) I'll make certain I won't serve >roasted children from LA at my next backyard party. > >) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 25 15:48:28 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:48:28 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion References: Message-ID: <000901c906fc$4fa79dc0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Okay, how about Obama's pick for VP? If its open season on list subject matter, lets start there. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Drmoonstone at aol.com To: mmichels at socal.rr.com ; jxnichols at sbcglobal.net ; tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion OK, I don't like the color of your car nor do I like purple....pleasedstick to the things I'm interested in only. Then the list and world would be perfect. If anyone wants to talk about lead wheel weights great, or maybe save your energy for the time they want us to retro fit our Tigers with OBDII computers. Now that will be a discussion subject. I find it interesting that the same Tiger subject matter is discussed over and over while the resources other than this list can provide detailed info, is this also a problem that wastes time? Maybe we need a censor to weed out all the stupid stuff or stuff "we" don't want to talk about. Here's the clue, It all concerns us and Tigers! Moonstone ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From FHSLOTH13 at aol.com Mon Aug 25 15:52:43 2008 From: FHSLOTH13 at aol.com (FHSLOTH13 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:52:43 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion, Obama V.P. Message-ID: Let's not. Fred Baum **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 25 16:04:52 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:04:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat housing Message-ID: Has anyone ever discovered a thermostat housing that exits at an agle rather than straight out? I'm trying to put in a deeper fan and the fan is going to hit the hose. If I bend the hose too much it begins to crimp and will restrict the coolant flow...kind of defeating the purpose of the deeper fan. I thought I remembered seeing a housing where the exit piece swiveled to any direction. Maybe this piece was in my imagination? Mark L **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From mrlau at charter.net Mon Aug 25 16:07:45 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <000901c906fc$4fa79dc0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <20080825220751.QEZU29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Perhaps some of you need to go back to the early 1980's and find out who was doing things to stifle horsepower and convince us to all drive VW Beatles. This thinking concerns all of you who want to have a performance car and most certainly the Tiger. Which President or Vice-President we get is directly related to who is on the Supreme Court in the future plus all of the lower court appointees. If keeping what this list is all about matters then I suggest you find out which group wants more to take these kinds of cars away and vote appropriately. -- Bill -- -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nichols Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:48 PM To: Drmoonstone at aol.com; mmichels at socal.rr.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Okay, how about Obama's pick for VP? If its open season on list subject matter, lets start there. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Drmoonstone at aol.com To: mmichels at socal.rr.com ; jxnichols at sbcglobal.net ; tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion OK, I don't like the color of your car nor do I like purple....pleasedstick to the things I'm interested in only. Then the list and world would be perfect. If anyone wants to talk about lead wheel weights great, or maybe save your energy for the time they want us to retro fit our Tigers with OBDII computers. Now that will be a discussion subject. I find it interesting that the same Tiger subject matter is discussed over and over while the resources other than this list can provide detailed info, is this also a problem that wastes time? Maybe we need a censor to weed out all the stupid stuff or stuff "we" don't want to talk about. Here's the clue, It all concerns us and Tigers! Moonstone From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 16:23:22 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:23:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat housing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a841b0808251523re70e735mc4a9a1d08baebc9e@mail.gmail.com> Straight out? The standard sbf ones are at 45 degree angle. Is that not sufficient? On 8/25/08, CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > Has anyone ever discovered a thermostat housing that exits at an agle > rather > than straight out? I'm trying to put in a deeper fan and the fan is going > to hit the hose. If I bend the hose too much it begins to crimp and will > restrict the coolant flow...kind of defeating the purpose of the deeper > fan. > I thought I remembered seeing a housing where the exit piece swiveled to > any > direction. Maybe this piece was in my imagination? > Mark L > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your > travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From Cushcom1 at aol.com Mon Aug 25 16:24:39 2008 From: Cushcom1 at aol.com (Cushcom1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:24:39 EDT Subject: [Tigers] NEED VIN HELP Message-ID: Listers: I am looking at a Tiger recently posted on e-bay that did not make reserve. It is also listed in Robb Report. The vehicle seems very nice, but highly modified. It was listed as item #170246146672. if anyone wants to look it up in the Completed Items category. Does anyone out there have any info on the car? It apparently came down from the Northwest a few years ago and was sold here in San Diego about 2 years ago. The listed specs are: vin #B382001541LRKFE. Also on the plate is "6832 B19KC" with "100" below and center. The JAL tag is "6615434". Any and all help in sorting things out would be appreciated. unfortunately I parted with my BON some time ago. Many thanks, jeff cushing the tigerman **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon Aug 25 16:29:09 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:29:09 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <20080825220751.QEZU29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> References: <000901c906fc$4fa79dc0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> <20080825220751.QEZU29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <39a841b0808251529q454c195bu10248526aa7b00c8@mail.gmail.com> Yes I mean let's face it, ours tigers are what really matter in the world - why should anything like foreign policy, healthcare, trade or any other pointless policy matter? Sorry - I had told myself I'd stay out of all this! On 8/25/08, William Lau wrote: > Perhaps some of you need to go back to the early 1980's and find out who was > doing things to stifle horsepower and convince us to all drive VW Beatles. > This thinking concerns all of you who want to have a performance car and > most certainly the Tiger. Which President or Vice-President we get is > directly related to who is on the Supreme Court in the future plus all of > the lower court appointees. If keeping what this list is all about matters > then I suggest you find out which group wants more to take these kinds of > cars away and vote appropriately. -- Bill -- > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Jeffrey Nichols > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:48 PM > To: Drmoonstone at aol.com; mmichels at socal.rr.com; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > > Okay, how about Obama's pick for VP? If its open season on list subject > matter, lets start there. > > Jeff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Drmoonstone at aol.com > To: mmichels at socal.rr.com ; jxnichols at sbcglobal.net ; > tigers at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > > > OK, I don't like the color of your car nor do I like > purple....pleasedstick > to the things I'm interested in only. Then the list and world would be > perfect. If anyone wants to talk about lead wheel weights great, or maybe > save > your energy for the time they want us to retro fit our Tigers with OBDII > computers. Now that will be a discussion subject. I find it interesting that > the same Tiger subject matter is discussed over and over while the resources > other than this list can provide detailed info, is this also a problem that > wastes time? Maybe we need a censor to weed out all the stupid stuff or > stuff > "we" don't want to talk about. > Here's the clue, It all concerns us and Tigers! > > Moonstone > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From MTaylor at ea.com Mon Aug 25 16:32:36 2008 From: MTaylor at ea.com (Taylor, Matthew) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:32:36 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Hood scoop and cooling holes In-Reply-To: <001401c906c8$6ad77220$6401a8c0@your03667082de> References: <001401c906c8$6ad77220$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <3FA9E5EE4E0C2F4C8A5F7E8D718A0F965EE448BF2E@NA-MAIL-1-1.rws.ad.ea.com> "What ever happened to the "Super Tiger"? Does it still exist with the options Ian Garrard installed?" Yes, it still exists and is in good hands. When my father got it, it was missing all of the options that were installed. Fortunately my father has most of those, if not all. Restoration will be started as soon as I get my junk out of his garage, which should be this weekend. Matthew From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 25 16:39:57 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:39:57 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Swivel housing Message-ID: Okay, I found some thermostat housing that swivel to different positions, but not have provisions for a by-pass hose. So, what will happen if I run with the by-pass by passed:-) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From drmayf at mayfco.com Mon Aug 25 16:47:02 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:47:02 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <000901c906fc$4fa79dc0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> References: <000901c906fc$4fa79dc0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <48B33666.3070000@mayfco.com> Hey, Ok...he is a lug nut... mayf Jeffrey Nichols wrote: >Okay, how about Obama's pick for VP? If its open season on list subject >matter, lets start there. > > Jeff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Drmoonstone at aol.com > To: mmichels at socal.rr.com ; jxnichols at sbcglobal.net ; tigers at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > > > OK, I don't like the color of your car nor do I like purple....pleasedstick >to the things I'm interested in only. Then the list and world would be >perfect. If anyone wants to talk about lead wheel weights great, or maybe save >your energy for the time they want us to retro fit our Tigers with OBDII >computers. Now that will be a discussion subject. I find it interesting that >the same Tiger subject matter is discussed over and over while the resources >other than this list can provide detailed info, is this also a problem that >wastes time? Maybe we need a censor to weed out all the stupid stuff or stuff >"we" don't want to talk about. > Here's the clue, It all concerns us and Tigers! > > Moonstone > > > ************** > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Mon Aug 25 16:48:52 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:48:52 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] NEED VIN HELP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B336D4.6040109@SoCal.rr.com> Jeff, Glad to see your still the "Tigerman". I did look it up. B382001541LRKFE in my "TBON. It's on pp 292, and gives NO information than "withheld", other than the "ROTA No. 1567", "Jensen Date 6/22/21". So if it were Norm that withheld it, you may have to see him. Best, Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Cushcom1 at aol.com wrote: > Listers: > I am looking at a Tiger recently posted on e-bay that did not make reserve. > It is also listed in Robb Report. The vehicle seems very nice, but highly > modified. It was listed as item #170246146672. if anyone wants to look it up in > the Completed Items category. Does anyone out there have any info on the > car? It apparently came down from the Northwest a few years ago and was sold > here in San Diego about 2 years ago. The listed specs are: vin #B382001541LRKFE. > Also on the plate is "6832 B19KC" with "100" below and center. The JAL tag > is "6615434". > > Any and all help in sorting things out would be appreciated. unfortunately I > parted with my BON some time ago. > > Many thanks, > jeff cushing the tigerman From Cushcom1 at aol.com Mon Aug 25 17:04:04 2008 From: Cushcom1 at aol.com (Cushcom1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:04:04 EDT Subject: [Tigers] I NEED NORM Message-ID: ANY LISTERS OUT THERE HAVE NORM'S CONTACTS? I NEED HELP WITH THIS TIGER I'M CONSIDERING. THANKS FROM THE TIGERMAN **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Mon Aug 25 17:28:24 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:28:24 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat housing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000501c9070a$44c728e0$6401a8c0@jerry> I have seen thermostat housings that are 90 degrees on small blocks, but I can't remember what it was on. So they're out there somewhere. Jerry Christopherson -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:05 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat housing Has anyone ever discovered a thermostat housing that exits at an agle rather than straight out? I'm trying to put in a deeper fan and the fan is going to hit the hose. If I bend the hose too much it begins to crimp and will restrict the coolant flow...kind of defeating the purpose of the deeper fan. I thought I remembered seeing a housing where the exit piece swiveled to any direction. Maybe this piece was in my imagination? Mark L **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From DJoh797014 at aol.com Mon Aug 25 17:31:18 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:31:18 EDT Subject: [Tigers] FW: Lead Weights Message-ID: Dr Next thing you know the brown shirts will search my garage for lead weight. I'll hide them next to my freon. In a message dated 8/25/2008 4:40:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, drmayf at mayfco.com writes: I love it! I have taken that position now as well. If ya don't want lead balance weights to kill ya don't eat then, lol... Same with all the other save the planet and humans junk. I have free will no need to tell me what the heck to do with my self, eh? What was that old flag...Don't tread on me? yeah that's my new creed.. mayf Drmoonstone at aol.com wrote: >Oh my God, were all going to die of Mad Haters disease, plumbism, Chagas >Disease.....ad nauseum. Were going to die period and most likely of our own >stupidity. As an epidemiologist and forensic anthropologist, I'm shaking in my >boots. I've instructed my family and friends that when I die to shoot me full of >lead shot and drop me off in a condor area so the stupid Pleistocene losers well >eat me and all die of lead poisoning. > >Moonstone > >P.S. Thanks for the warning (from someone) I'll make certain I won't serve >roasted children from LA at my next backyard party. > > >************** >It's only a >deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. > >(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From sganz at pacbell.net Mon Aug 25 17:41:33 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat housing Message-ID: <725885.59118.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have used some of the swivel billet style on other cars. They are from CSR (or CSI) and I thin a few brands also make them. You might want to look at my tiger engine mock up, it has one on it - http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/TigerEngine.html Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: "CoolVT at aol.com" To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:04:52 PM Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat housing Has anyone ever discovered a thermostat housing that exits at an agle rather than straight out? I'm trying to put in a deeper fan and the fan is going to hit the hose. If I bend the hose too much it begins to crimp and will restrict the coolant flow...kind of defeating the purpose of the deeper fan. I thought I remembered seeing a housing where the exit piece swiveled to any direction. Maybe this piece was in my imagination? Mark L **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From sganz at pacbell.net Mon Aug 25 17:43:46 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Swivel housing Message-ID: <138670.87322.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The CSR one I have does have the bypass hose in it. I never run them on the race car. I just drill holes in the t-stat so it always flows a bit and I can get rid of another hose. How this might work with street cars unsure. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: "CoolVT at aol.com" To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:39:57 PM Subject: [Tigers] Swivel housing Okay, I found some thermostat housing that swivel to different positions, but not have provisions for a by-pass hose. So, what will happen if I run with the by-pass by passed:-) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From dave at munroe.ca Mon Aug 25 18:47:42 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:47:42 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Swivel housing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark; My experience is that, contrary to popular opinion, the engine will run marginally hotter. You also must either drill a hole or two into your thermostat plate, or install a racing style 'stat with the holes already punched, to allow at least some coolant to flow through the engine into the rad during warm up. Dave From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Mon Aug 25 18:57:37 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:57:37 EDT Subject: [Tigers] driver's reaction time Message-ID: The automobile driving manual says the average driver's reaction time is: .75 seconds..... or 1 car length for every 10 mph..... Test your average reaction time. Be very careful this can be addicting. Click on the link below and good luck _http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf_ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From parlanti at comcast.net Mon Aug 25 19:11:59 2008 From: parlanti at comcast.net (Joe Parlanti) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:11:59 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers East / Alpines East United XXVIII Message-ID: <01ff01c90718$be33b8c0$3a9b2a40$@net> Alpine and Tiger Enthusiasts, I thought I'd send an invitation to the list regarding the Tigers East/Alpines East United XXVIII in the Washington Capital Area. It will take place at the Bolger Center, an historic, large, and gracious hotel and convention center in suburban Potomac, MD, about 20 miles from the U.S. Capitol, October 11-13, 2008 (http://bolgercenter.dolce.com/). Members each $100, non-members $115, children 10 and under $25, Children 11-18, $50. Ample parking and security for our cars. The hotel has given us a special rate of $124/night for a double room, breakfast included. Suite with extra beds and living room $154/night. The meet will include a concours for various classes of Rootes Group vehicles, an autocross, and a 2-3 hour tour in your cars of the area, including a ferry crossing to the Smithsonian Air and Space Center in Virginia. There will be shuttle buses to the Washington Capitol area and other area sites (great for kids). Other activities will include tech sessions, additional tours of the area, club business meetings, and elections, a Saturday BBQ, Sunday night banquet, hospitality and parts rooms, and lots of chances to exchange ideas and meet your fellow club members, owners, and their families. For further information see the information / registration flyer at (http://teae.org/united28.html), or call Joe Parlanti 240-632-0649 parlanti at comcast.net Hope to see you here in October, JVP Joseph V. Parlanti 1966 Sunbeam Tiger 1959 Abarth Zagato 750GT 2000 BMW M Roadster 16048 Copen Meadow Dr. North Potomac, Md. 20878 Cell - 301-461-0626 Email - Parlanti at comcast.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image001.gif] From mrlau at charter.net Mon Aug 25 20:08:56 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:08:56 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <39a841b0808251529q454c195bu10248526aa7b00c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080826020902.CKCD29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Yes we all know who is on what side of all of these things also and that is why we had better vote accordingly. -- Bill -- Yes I mean let's face it, ours tigers are what really matter in the world - why should anything like foreign policy, healthcare, trade or any other pointless policy matter? Sorry - I had told myself I'd stay out of all this! On 8/25/08, William Lau wrote: > Perhaps some of you need to go back to the early 1980's and find out who was > doing things to stifle horsepower and convince us to all drive VW Beatles. > This thinking concerns all of you who want to have a performance car and > most certainly the Tiger. Which President or Vice-President we get is > directly related to who is on the Supreme Court in the future plus all of > the lower court appointees. If keeping what this list is all about matters > then I suggest you find out which group wants more to take these kinds of > cars away and vote appropriately. -- Bill -- From drmayf at mayfco.com Mon Aug 25 21:57:59 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:57:59 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] driver's reaction time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B37F47.30007@mayfco.com> Hmmmm, I was a bobbing bobcat after a few tries, lol... mayf AAAGLASSS at aol.com wrote: >The automobile driving manual says the average driver's reaction time is: >.75 seconds..... > or 1 car length for every 10 mph..... >Test your average reaction time. > >Be very careful this can be addicting. Click on the link below and good luck > > > >_http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf_ >(http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf) > > > > > > > > >**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel >deal here. >(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From harryb at elams.org Mon Aug 25 22:01:55 2008 From: harryb at elams.org (Harry B. Elam) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:01:55 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Fan spacing Message-ID: <48B38033.9090309@elams.org> Mark, I have used the combination of washers between the fan and pulley and cutting the hose as it enters the radiator to provide clearance. Harry Elam From twotigers at verizon.net Tue Aug 26 02:19:08 2008 From: twotigers at verizon.net (Kirk Smith) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:19:08 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Fw: Re: NEED VIN HELP Message-ID: <005101c90754$69b078b0$2f01a8c0@smith> ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirk Smith To: tigers-owner at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:12 AM Subject: Re:[Tigers] NEED VIN HELP Jeff, I almost got to yell "BINGO"! I owned B382001542 from late '69 until '81. If you want to compare notes, let me know. Kirk B382000503 From wsamouce at kc.rr.com Tue Aug 26 06:12:18 2008 From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Cylinder #5 saga.kicking my butt. In-Reply-To: <2EE357CA1A0549F9AA49D7D75DDC1B79@DavePC> References: <2EE357CA1A0549F9AA49D7D75DDC1B79@DavePC> Message-ID: <000001c90774$fcedbf50$f6c93df0$@rr.com> Good morning all, I have had my Tiger since February. I do not know the history of the 260 engine but the PO told me it had been rebuilt .030 over and had very few miles on it since (take that with a large grain of salt). A recent dyno resulted in 156 RWHP and 200 RWTQ. I have had a constant problem with #5 cylinder fouling the spark plug. The plug gets fouled out by black soot. It is not wet (no fuel smell) but a thick layer of black powder. The other seven plugs look great with the proper color for a good A/F mixture. The engine has a miss which lead me to investigate. I figured that it was an ignition problem with a weak spark. I have replaced the distributer, running an Accel electronic module, replaced cap, rotor, wires and many spark plugs. I have determined that the plug is producing a good spark. In the past, the cylinder produced 130 psi for a compression check while turning over the engine. Yesterday I did a compression check with the engine running. I started the engine and the pressure was 60 psi. I pulled the valve cover and re-set the valve tension (+ 1/2 turn of locking nut once all rocker to valve clearance was out). I tuned the engine over and had 130 psi from the cylinder. I did not check the compression with the engine running. I drove the car about 10 miles (hard) and pulled the plug..it is getting a black build up already. I am thinking that I have a bad hydraulic lifter. My thinking is that when just cranking the engine, the lifter operates correctly, and thus I get a good compression number. When the engine is running the lifter is failing and not opening the valve enough (or too much) and I then lose compression and get a fouled plug. I do not think it is a valve problem because I get good compression numbers under certain conditions. If a valve or the springs were damaged, I would never get good numbers. What are your thoughts? I posted the above on the SAOCA web site and got some good feedback (http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9028). I plan on using Marvel Mystery oil first to see if I can get a possibly gunk'd up lifter clean. If that does not work I will pull the intake and remove and inspect the lifters for damage. I would then replace any suspect lifters with new ones. That or replace all of the lifters with new. I have read mixed opinions on using new lifters on and old cam. Some say no problem others feel that the cam needs to be replaced also. Any actual experience with doing this out there? I am happy with the current cam's performance. I also noticed when the valve cover was off that I have dual valve springs (installed in 289 HiPo heads) and screw-in rocker arm studs (also a 289 HiPo item). But, "289" is not to be found anywhere on the head. I will be looking into this further by checking the casting numbers. Tanks for any further advice. Duke B382002037LRXFE From rfraser at bluefrog.com Tue Aug 26 08:59:04 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:59:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Cylinder #5 saga.kicking my butt. In-Reply-To: <000001c90774$fcedbf50$f6c93df0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <000101c9078c$4d8d1fc0$7e931840@ronpc1> Duke As far as I know 289 should be cast into 289 heads; 260 heads were blank. Check for casting numbers and date codes; there is a good chance you have 260 heads C4OE-A which are similar to the 289 heads. You seem to be looking in the right places for the fouling problem; keep us informed. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Duke Samouce Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:12 AM To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Tigers] Cylinder #5 saga.kicking my butt. I also noticed when the valve cover was off that I have dual valve springs (installed in 289 HiPo heads) and screw-in rocker arm studs (also a 289 HiPo item). But, "289" is not to be found anywhere on the head. I will be looking into this further by checking the casting numbers. Tanks for any further advice. Duke B382002037LRXFE From shutchin at netjets.com Tue Aug 26 09:01:56 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:01:56 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Cylinder #5 saga.kicking my butt. Message-ID: The previous owner may have modified the heads. I did it to mine. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From Cushcom1 at aol.com Tue Aug 26 09:39:00 2008 From: Cushcom1 at aol.com (Cushcom1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:39:00 EDT Subject: [Tigers] NEED A TAC Message-ID: Are there any listers out there who could TAC a car here in San Diego. And how much would it cost. Thanks from the Tigerman **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From dave at munroe.ca Tue Aug 26 09:47:57 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:47:57 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps In-Reply-To: <000101c9078c$4d8d1fc0$7e931840@ronpc1> References: <000101c9078c$4d8d1fc0$7e931840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <03846E79B183490CB8AB2F580FD0EC44@DavePC> Hey guys: (any "gal" listers out there?) Does anyone know if its possible to press the shaft back in a Miloden water pump to gain clearance from the rad? Since I installed an alloy rad approx 3/4 inch thicker than stock, and fitted the original shroud, the fan blades are now buried in the shroud completely. I understand for maximum effect the blades should be roughly 2/3 inside - 1/3 outside the shroud. Two possible solutions: fit a shorter water pump (does one exist?) or shorten the shroud, which would reduce the shroud's effectiveness. I'm not sure which is the better of two bad choices: leave the fan buried ot cut down the depth of the shroud? Any suggestions? Cheers, Dave Munroe From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net Tue Aug 26 10:27:51 2008 From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:27:51 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] NEED A TAC References: Message-ID: <001701c90798$afd44f80$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> TAC requires that 3 (volunteer) inspectors look at your Tiger. Any charges, if any, are very modest. However, I don't know of any inspectors in the San Diego area, much less 3. It might be possible that 3 inspectors will be attending the vintage road race at Coronado in late September but this is a longshot. And even if they do attend, they might have other time committments (like racing Tigers) that will keep them busy. A better bet is that CAT is hosting a TAC event in a couple months in Anaheim, a couple hours north of you. http://www.catmbr.org/Events1.htm good luck, Buck Trippel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:39 AM Subject: [Tigers] NEED A TAC > Are there any listers out there who could TAC a car here in San Diego. And > how much would it cost. > Thanks from the Tigerman From rfraser at bluefrog.com Tue Aug 26 10:49:26 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:49:26 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps In-Reply-To: <03846E79B183490CB8AB2F580FD0EC44@DavePC> Message-ID: <000001c9079b$b4d87620$608c1840@ronpc1> Dave I seem to remember someone using a 90's Taurus fan shroud. Most of today's fan shrouds are made of plastic which should be a little easier to work with than metal, especially the original Tiger shroud. I hate to cut up original parts unless absolutely necessary and even then maybe not. Might be worth measuring some at the wreck yard. You can always compare between the shroud as is today to without the shroud to see if there is a heat problem or if you really don't need to do anything at all. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:48 AM To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps Hey guys: (any "gal" listers out there?) Does anyone know if its possible to press the shaft back in a Miloden water pump to gain clearance from the rad? Since I installed an alloy rad approx 3/4 inch thicker than stock, and fitted the original shroud, the fan blades are now buried in the shroud completely. I understand for maximum effect the blades should be roughly 2/3 inside - 1/3 outside the shroud. Two possible solutions: fit a shorter water pump (does one exist?) or shorten the shroud, which would reduce the shroud's effectiveness. I'm not sure which is the better of two bad choices: leave the fan buried ot cut down the depth of the shroud? Any suggestions? Cheers, Dave Munroe You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From sganz at pacbell.net Tue Aug 26 11:25:04 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps Message-ID: <231736.60120.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You should be able to, but you will need to also work on the pulley's alignment. Don't know if you have aftermarket ones or the stock tiger offsets, but moving the flange back will affect the alignment. I did it to an edelbrock as others have, I would expect the assembly to be pretty similar. Below is a link to a picture on the press. I used an impact socket on the flange, and a small socket on the pack that was only touching the shaft not the impeller. Be careful to not press it too far, if you do, you not totally ruined just put in bolts into the flange and evenly screw them into the front of the pump you can move it out slowly. You might have to fix up the link if it gets chopped. http://gtsparkplugs.com/blog/2007/09/07/nothing-new/#comments Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Munroe To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:47:57 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps Hey guys: (any "gal" listers out there?) Does anyone know if its possible to press the shaft back in a Miloden water pump to gain clearance from the rad? Since I installed an alloy rad approx 3/4 inch thicker than stock, and fitted the original shroud, the fan blades are now buried in the shroud completely. I understand for maximum effect the blades should be roughly 2/3 inside - 1/3 outside the shroud. Two possible solutions: fit a shorter water pump (does one exist?) or shorten the shroud, which would reduce the shroud's effectiveness. I'm not sure which is the better of two bad choices: leave the fan buried ot cut down the depth of the shroud? Any suggestions? Cheers, Dave Munroe _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From fastsage at cox.net Tue Aug 26 11:55:05 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:55:05 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps In-Reply-To: <03846E79B183490CB8AB2F580FD0EC44@DavePC> References: <000101c9078c$4d8d1fc0$7e931840@ronpc1> <03846E79B183490CB8AB2F580FD0EC44@DavePC> Message-ID: <48B44379.4010702@cox.net> Dave: I had my shroud depth cut down when my Fluidyne radiator was installed (for the same reason...to get part of the fan blades outside the shroud). It made a big improvement in airflow from the fan (and through the radiator). Steve Sage 1966 Mk1A Dave Munroe wrote: > > I'm not sure which is the better of two bad choices: leave the fan buried ot > cut down the depth of the shroud? > > Any suggestions? > > Cheers, > > Dave Munroe > _______________________________________________ > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10560e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ From jteepen at usatoday.com Tue Aug 26 11:58:28 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:58:28 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps In-Reply-To: <03846E79B183490CB8AB2F580FD0EC44@DavePC> Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250B24617@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Dave: The process for pressing the shaft back with the Milodon water pump is the same a stock pump. I did it to mine with no problem. Jere -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:48 AM To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps Hey guys: (any "gal" listers out there?) Does anyone know if its possible to press the shaft back in a Miloden water pump to gain clearance from the rad? Since I installed an alloy rad approx 3/4 inch thicker than stock, and fitted the original shroud, the fan blades are now buried in the shroud completely. I understand for maximum effect the blades should be roughly 2/3 inside - 1/3 outside the shroud. Two possible solutions: fit a shorter water pump (does one exist?) or shorten the shroud, which would reduce the shroud's effectiveness. I'm not sure which is the better of two bad choices: leave the fan buried ot cut down the depth of the shroud? Any suggestions? Cheers, Dave Munroe From awtiger at cox.net Tue Aug 26 12:04:46 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:04:46 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] NEED A TAC In-Reply-To: <001701c90798$afd44f80$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <20080826140446.2D6P0.279282.imail@eastrmwml44> Aren't they planning a TAC event at SUNI next year in Rapid City? Thanks, Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX ---- Buck Trippel wrote: > TAC requires that 3 (volunteer) inspectors look at your Tiger. Any charges, > if any, are very modest. > > However, I don't know of any inspectors in the San Diego area, much less 3. > It might be possible that 3 inspectors will be attending the vintage road > race at Coronado in late September but this is a longshot. And even if they > do attend, they might have other time committments (like racing Tigers) that > will keep them busy. > > A better bet is that CAT is hosting a TAC event in a couple months in > Anaheim, a couple hours north of you. > http://www.catmbr.org/Events1.htm > > good luck, > Buck Trippel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:39 AM > Subject: [Tigers] NEED A TAC > > > > Are there any listers out there who could TAC a car here in San Diego. And > > how much would it cost. > > Thanks from the Tigerman > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From dave at munroe.ca Tue Aug 26 12:47:38 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:47:38 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps In-Reply-To: <000001c9079b$b4d87620$608c1840@ronpc1> References: <000001c9079b$b4d87620$608c1840@ronpc1> Message-ID: Ron; Thanks for the tip. To complicate matters, the previous owner had the shroud chrome plated,. It looks great if you like shiny stuff, so I wouldn't want to mess with it. I will take a run to the bone yard and look for the Taurus shroud, it is a much gentler option! Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Fraser" To: "'Dave Munroe'" ; Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:49 PM Subject: RE: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps Dave I seem to remember someone using a 90's Taurus fan shroud. Most of today's fan shrouds are made of plastic which should be a little easier to work with than metal, especially the original Tiger shroud. I hate to cut up original parts unless absolutely necessary and even then maybe not. Might be worth measuring some at the wreck yard. You can always compare between the shroud as is today to without the shroud to see if there is a heat problem or if you really don't need to do anything at all. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:48 AM To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Miloden Water Pumps Hey guys: (any "gal" listers out there?) Does anyone know if its possible to press the shaft back in a Miloden water pump to gain clearance from the rad? Since I installed an alloy rad approx 3/4 inch thicker than stock, and fitted the original shroud, the fan blades are now buried in the shroud completely. I understand for maximum effect the blades should be roughly 2/3 inside - 1/3 outside the shroud. Two possible solutions: fit a shorter water pump (does one exist?) or shorten the shroud, which would reduce the shroud's effectiveness. I'm not sure which is the better of two bad choices: leave the fan buried ot cut down the depth of the shroud? Any suggestions? Cheers, Dave Munroe You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From bomber44 at comcast.net Tue Aug 26 13:02:35 2008 From: bomber44 at comcast.net (Rob Guerra) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:02:35 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] NEED A TAC In-Reply-To: <20080826140446.2D6P0.279282.imail@eastrmwml44> Message-ID: I can tell you there will be at least 3 tac inspectors at Suni for sure. I know that Tom, Patrick, and I are planning on going On 8/26/08 11:04 AM, "awtiger at cox.net" wrote: > Aren't they planning a TAC event at SUNI next year in Rapid City? > > Thanks, > Andy Walker > Edmond, OK > B382001600LRXFE > B9006857LRX From choffman9 at cinci.rr.com Tue Aug 26 15:40:16 2008 From: choffman9 at cinci.rr.com (Curt) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:40:16 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] NEED A TAC References: Message-ID: <003101c907c4$54d9bcb0$b2f2b94b@HomeComputer> Sounds like road trip time. Drag that puppy to Washington DC and you can get a TAC this October at the TEAE United. Curt Hoffman From Drmoonstone at aol.com Tue Aug 26 16:39:25 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:39:25 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: That doesn't interest me so end of discussion....as I hit delete Mooney ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Tue Aug 26 16:40:22 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:40:22 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: Ya don't need to repeat yourself, oh heck DELETE! ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Tue Aug 26 16:42:13 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:42:13 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: And Fresno erupts with uncontrolled aplause and sighs a sigh of relief. Hope they get it! Thanks Mooney ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Tue Aug 26 16:47:38 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:47:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: >From a statistical point of view do you think your view has any force behind it? Not. The point is that all legislation regarding our hobby is critical. No where have I indicated that other issues don't matter. Some advocate we only talk about the history, mechanics and values of Tigers. It's not difficult to visualize all of our Tigers being crushed, kinda what Australia did with legally owned firearms. Moonstone ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Tue Aug 26 16:49:10 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:49:10 EDT Subject: [Tigers] =?iso-8859-1?q?FW=3A=A0_Lead_Weights?= Message-ID: I have special canisters that can be buried, works for my firearms. Mooney ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From PhastPhill at aol.com Tue Aug 26 17:07:03 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:07:03 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: _http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1294959.php/S tudy_shows_gun_control_worked_in_Australia_ (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1294959.php/Study_shows_gun_control_worked_in_A ustralia) Having lived in the australian outback.....and seeing lots of normal guns....I googled this.... From mrlau at charter.net Tue Aug 26 17:11:26 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:11:26 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080826231133.WUOB10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Moon, This is bigger than most people want to think about or admit. I was in Australia right after they had their guns taken away. Talk about some upset people. I never met a single person that thought it was good idea and they wondered who were the ones that pushed it to happen except the politicians but happen it did. This same kind of thing happened in the 80's when the manufacturers were coerced to make weak automobiles. Who wanted it besides the politicians but we got it. Does anyone think they made Mustang II cars because they thought they would sell better than the regular one. - Bill -- >From a statistical point of view do you think your view has any force behind it? Not. The point is that all legislation regarding our hobby is critical. No where have I indicated that other issues don't matter. Some advocate we only talk about the history, mechanics and values of Tigers. It's not difficult to visualize all of our Tigers being crushed, kinda what Australia did with legally owned firearms. Moonstone From itswonderful at comcast.net Tue Aug 26 17:40:29 2008 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:40:29 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <534203F48F3847569292A0D088DE9C07@FPMengineering> This is all just propaganda crap. You can find the same propaganda directly refuting the claims in the presented article. It's ALL propaganda crap. Might as well have fun with it otherwise it will drive you nuts, Submitted for your entertainment, http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/07/knife_control_in_britain.html http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44485 Eat you steak with your hands and save a life! Frank in Cloverdale > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of PhastPhill at aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:07 PM > To: Drmoonstone at aol.com; owain.lloyd at gmail.com; mrlau at charter.net; > tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > > _http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1294959.p > hp/S > tudy_shows_gun_control_worked_in_Australia_ > (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1294959.p > hp/Study_shows_gun_control_worked_in_A > ustralia) Having lived in the australian outback.....and seeing > lots > of normal guns....I googled this.... > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as itswonderful at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From PhastPhill at aol.com Tue Aug 26 17:41:57 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:41:57 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: I lived and worked there for 2 years after " they took their guns away"....Nobody gave a damn that I worked with. Too busy looking for a cold "tinny" maybe. No, if you need anything other than an old 303 to shoot a dingo your a fing poofter and a wanker to boot mate. Now if you really wanted to piss them off just tellem the all blacks are going kick their ass in rugby again......lol....and they will From crbernardino at mac.com Tue Aug 26 17:49:50 2008 From: crbernardino at mac.com (Rob Bernardino) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:49:50 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] New Jensen Interceptor Message-ID: <8D2205AD-C9A4-4083-A573-02EB68C4B2A4@mac.com> Check out the link below. Maybe we can convince them to update the Tiger... Rob http://www.innovationcars.com/blog/jensen-interceptor-sx-the-ultimate-interceptor/ From jteepen at usatoday.com Tue Aug 26 18:12:53 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:12:53 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <20080826231133.WUOB10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250B24E39@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Gee, I liked my Mustang II. Of course it was a bit modified under Ohio's then total lack of any emissions testing during that period. Mine had a hipo 289, four speed, zero emission controls, etc. It did have that BIG "Cobra" decal on the side that wasn'too sharp looking, but it did provide some amusement when a guy came up to me and asked if it was a real Cobra. That was funny. I told him yes. Jere -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of William Lau Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:11 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Moon, This is bigger than most people want to think about or admit. I was in Australia right after they had their guns taken away. Talk about some upset people. I never met a single person that thought it was good idea and they wondered who were the ones that pushed it to happen except the politicians but happen it did. This same kind of thing happened in the 80's when the manufacturers were coerced to make weak automobiles. Who wanted it besides the politicians but we got it. Does anyone think they made Mustang II cars because they thought they would sell better than the regular one. - Bill -- >From a statistical point of view do you think your view has any force >behind it? Not. The point is that all legislation regarding our hobby is critical. No where have I indicated that other issues don't matter. Some advocate we only talk about the history, mechanics and values of Tigers. It's not difficult to visualize all of our Tigers being crushed, kinda what Australia did with legally owned firearms. Moonstone You are subscribed as jteepen at usatoday.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From PhastPhill at aol.com Tue Aug 26 18:19:25 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:19:25 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: And the Mustang II has the last laugh in the fact that at least half the hot rods built since then use their front suspension and steering rack......lol . Can you even find one in a wreaking yard anymore.? From gswaybright at yahoo.com Tue Aug 26 18:28:58 2008 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] New Jensen Interceptor In-Reply-To: <8D2205AD-C9A4-4083-A573-02EB68C4B2A4@mac.com> Message-ID: <804635.10225.qm@web31708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wow.. maybe this will help drive up the value of my Interceptor. Even with only 50 being built... that's a pretty good percentage of the surviving cars to use as donors, and they are incredibly under-valued in the first place. ... and I just told my wife (committed to actually) I was ready to sell it, since it's toy #5 behind the Tiger, my Spec Miata, my street Miata and the WRX (no particular order). Since our twins were born in 2002, I just don't have time to enjoy all the cars, and the Jensen is the least used. :( - Stephen --- On Tue, 8/26/08, Rob Bernardino wrote: > From: Rob Bernardino > Subject: [Tigers] New Jensen Interceptor > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 7:49 PM > Check out the link below. Maybe we can convince them to > update the > Tiger... > Rob > > http://www.innovationcars.com/blog/jensen-interceptor-sx-the-ultimate-interceptor/ From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 18:57:43 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:57:43 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] New Jensen Interceptor In-Reply-To: <804635.10225.qm@web31708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8D2205AD-C9A4-4083-A573-02EB68C4B2A4@mac.com> <804635.10225.qm@web31708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: here is a front picture of it: http://v8garage.blogspot.com/2007/12/future-jensen.html -- Regards Michael King From mrlau at charter.net Tue Aug 26 19:30:15 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:30:15 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080827013025.DPHH10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Maybe you should have hung around some sober people. They have lots of them. - Bill -- _____ From: PhastPhill at aol.com [mailto:PhastPhill at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:42 PM To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion I lived and worked there for 2 years after " they took their guns away"....Nobody gave a damn that I worked with. Too busy looking for a cold "tinny" maybe. No, if you need anything other than an old 303 to shoot a dingo your a fing poofter and a wanker to boot mate. Now if you really wanted to piss them off just tellem the all blacks are going kick their ass in rugby again......lol....and they will From PhastPhill at aol.com Tue Aug 26 20:36:55 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:36:55 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: I did....that was taking a bit o the piss out a ya mate.....cheers From sralsten at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 26 22:35:10 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (Steve Ralsten) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:35:10 -0800 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Message-ID: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a warm evening So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two blocks at a time red light to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External temp was about 92. Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. At what point is temperature a concern ? Thanks Steve B9473720 From michael.s.king at gmail.com Tue Aug 26 22:54:53 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:54:53 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Message-ID: I would start to worry at 200.. things to check: what termostat is it running? when was the radiator flushed/rodded or rebuilt last? Is the water in the radiator clean? What coolant is in it? Everyone will always jump to the conclusion the radiator id not goodenough.. or the fan.. check everything is in correct working order first.. then look at upgrades. If the car is fine on the highway.. maybe a thermo fan fo rtraffic might be a solution.. or a better engine fan (i have a restored LAT one i have not fiited if you want some pics) -- Regards Michael King From awtiger at cox.net Wed Aug 27 05:18:59 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (Andy Walker) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:18:59 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Message-ID: <0E2473DB768347088B14986EF5C447F2@awtigerPC> Steve: Welcome to the wonderful world of Tiger ownership!!! Lesson #1: no air flow through the radiator equals higher temperatures. Tigers are well known for their heating characteristics in traffic. They're all going to run hotter in stop-and-go traffic. The good news is that your Tiger was always legendary around here for never overheating. Carroll never had a problem with it and, as fussy as he is about taking care of his cars, he would have done something about it had it been running too hot. I've never seen his car even puke any water. My car as a matter of course runs around 205 to 210 with no ill effects and no water-puking. Personally, I think some people get a little paranoid about how warm their Tigers run. Let's face it; in stock form, the Tiger had a bit of a weak cooling system. But, all it takes is reading this forum to see all the things that can be done to make them run cooler. Of course, from what I've heard from you, stock is how you want it, which will preclude any wild modifications. Again, your Tiger has always set the standard around here for a great running Tiger. I don't think you have anything to worry about at all. Just enjoy the car. Take care and keep in touch, Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From CoolVT at aol.com Wed Aug 27 05:59:56 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:59:56 EDT Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Message-ID: The thing that bugs me about running at 200+ degrees is that when the car is shut down, the fuel boils and floods the carb....then it's hard to restart. My original 2 barrel did this and my 4 barrel does the same. M **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From CoolVT at aol.com Wed Aug 27 06:13:14 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:13:14 EDT Subject: [Tigers] cooling/spoiler Message-ID: For cooling purposes is it better to block the area between the very bottom of the cowling and crossmember or leave it open. I know that the space between the crossmember and radiator should be blocked, but not sure of the beforementioned area. It seems like air coming into the grill could escape through this space, but then again maybe it's a space that could let more air enter the area in front of the radiator. Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From wsamouce at kc.rr.com Wed Aug 27 06:45:30 2008 From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:45:30 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Message-ID: <000001c90842$ca6a2ef0$5f3e8cd0$@rr.com> Hey Steve, I have BTDT...except my Tiger would push towards 230 on the highway with 50 temp. I had a 50% blocked radiator. All you need to know for cooling the Tiger is in this article - http://www.teae.org/cooling/cooling_article.html If you determine that you radiator is healthy, which it seems to be, I would block off the horn holes and install a 15" and then re-evaluate. Here is what I made to block the horn holes - http://e28-535i.com/upload/HHP1_1.JPG http://e28-535i.com/upload/HHP2_1.JPG http://e28-535i.com/upload/HHP3_1.JPG Some sheet aluminum and door strip sealer from Home Depot. They are a friction fit installed from the front side of the radiator bulkhead. Duke B382002037 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ralsten Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:35 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a warm evening So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two blocks at a time red light to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External temp was about 92. Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. At what point is temperature a concern ? Thanks Steve B9473720 You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 27 07:39:57 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:39:57 -0000 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: <003401c93839$8c5a28a0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> "Does anyone think they made Mustang II cars because they thought they would sell better than the regular one. " That was the exact reason why the Mustang II was made. Sales of the early 70's Mustang had dropped and the car grew to a bloated parody of what it was originally. The designers were told to come up with a new Mustang sized like the first Mustang. Park a 1964 Mustang next to a 1973 Mustang and you will see what I mean. The 1974 Mustang II was a great success with first year sales rivaling that of the original 1964 Mustang. It helped that the 1973 gas crisis came along at the same time as the Mustang II intro. No one has much respect for the car now but in its day it was very popular. Jeff From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 27 09:43:28 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:43:28 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Message-ID: <20080827154332.BYNN29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Make sure your fan is in the right place in regards to forward and backwards. I think it makes a lot of difference with just minor adjustments because if it isn't centered in the shroud up and down and forward and backward and the right diameter, it isn't efficient. If you don't have a shroud it needs to be as close to the radiator as is safe. Also make sure the timing isn't retarded (yes retarded) because that will cause overheating at slow speeds too. If that isn't it have the radiator rodded out-- Bill -- -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ralsten Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:35 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a warm evening So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two blocks at a time red light to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External temp was about 92. Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. At what point is temperature a concern ? Thanks Steve B9473720 From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Wed Aug 27 09:48:17 2008 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:48:17 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <003401c93839$8c5a28a0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> References: <003401c93839$8c5a28a0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <82A974D0BA5A5E4C85412B56F8C0D4B23EEBD5@US-EXCH-VS02.US.PGFM.NET> I have to admit that I still have a soft spot for the King Cobra version of the Mustang II. All those sticker graphics. The T-top. Baby, that's how I remember the 1970s. NOTICE: This communication and its attachments have been sent to you from Powell Goldstein LLP and may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. If you are not the intended recipient appearing in the address lines of this communication, you should not rely upon it. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From Cushcom1 at aol.com Wed Aug 27 09:57:52 2008 From: Cushcom1 at aol.com (Cushcom1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:57:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] CORONADO BOUND? Message-ID: Are any listers planning to attend the historic races on Coronado (CA) in late September? Is there a Tiger corral or special parking area planned? If so, let me know. I'm closing in on a new Tiger acquisition and would like to join the conflagration. jeff the tigerman **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From atwittsend at verizon.net Wed Aug 27 10:59:29 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:59:29 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) References: Message-ID: <009001c90866$45281170$0302a8c0@student2> >>>And the Mustang II has the last laugh ...< >>>Can you even find one in a wreaking yard anymore.?<<< As someone who uses Mustang II's for source parts for my Turbo Pinto conversion the answer is - yes. The So. Cal. Pick A Part type yards have anywhere from 1-3 most times. The most common item removed is the 8" rearend as it has the narrowest of the stock configuration. Being they were the first heavily smogged Mustangs they got a bad rap. Also, being built on the Pinto platform (and engine in lesser form) didn't help (though the early Mustangs being built on the Falcon platform didn't hurt). Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1637 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:01 AM From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 27 11:09:41 2008 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tiger Man) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:09:41 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Message-ID: If you can, borrow someone's infrared (sometimes called laser) temp gauge, and point it at something like the brass of the temp sender unit. You may find that your temp gauge is off by 10-20 degrees. Mine reads about 210, where the infrared thermometer tells me it really is 195 at the sending unit. If that is the problem, I believe there are a couple articles about how to build a solid state voltage regulator for your gauges that will make them more accurate Steve > Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a warm > evening > So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two > blocks at a time red light > to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External temp > was about 92. > Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. At what point is temperature a > concern ? > > Thanks > > Steve > B9473720 From atwittsend at verizon.net Wed Aug 27 11:14:50 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:14:50 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] New Jensen Interceptor References: <8D2205AD-C9A4-4083-A573-02EB68C4B2A4@mac.com> Message-ID: <009a01c90868$6a167f10$0302a8c0@student2> >>>Maybe we can convince them to update the Tiger...<<< The Jensen Interceptor was on my short list, though I ultimately got a Tiger (Tiger was at the top of that list). I wonder if someone ever considered using the plethora of Cobra chassis work out there and making a fiberglass replica of the Tiger. Then we could have Tigers, Algers and Cogers. Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1637 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:01 AM From rfraser at bluefrog.com Wed Aug 27 11:34:44 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:34:44 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Message-ID: <000001c9086b$3544bd30$a7961840@ronpc1> Steve Always, always, check that the gauge is reading accurately first. Never, ever guess or assume it is reading accurately. Since the gauge indicates 180 on the highway and if you absolutely know you have a 180 thermostat, then you probably have an accurate reading. Basically if the engine is not puking then it is not overheating; that said I do get concerned when the gauge goes to 200 and I always pop the bonnet to let more heat out. 1st check the gauge readings 2nd Flush and back flush the radiator and the heater core to see if any debris or junk comes out; continue to flush till they are clear running 3rd Fill and check the cooling system and gauge reading on the road 4th read the cooling tips on the TE/AE web site and Tigersunited site 5th Always step through the problem one fix at a time so you know what worked best We all have other ideas on this subject so keep us informed of your progress we're here to help. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ralsten Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:35 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a warm evening So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two blocks at a time red light to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External temp was about 92. Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. At what point is temperature a concern ? Thanks Steve B9473720 You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 27 11:41:25 2008 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tiger Man) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:41:25 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <003401c93839$8c5a28a0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> References: <003401c93839$8c5a28a0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: I'm not sure that comparing the 1964.5 Mustang sales with the later 1974 Mustang is a very fair comparison The 1964.5 mustang was introduced at the worlds fair on April 15, 1964, but I don't think they were in the showrooms available for purchase the next day. I believe the total production numbers for 1964.5 was 121,538, but I did find a quote saying that they sold 100,000 in 4 months, so I am guessing that means they probably weren't ramped up for production till the last 4-5 months of the year. The first 12 full months of Mustang production (bridging 64.5 and 65 was 418,812) 1964.5 production numbers 121,538 1965 production numbers 559,451 1966 production numbers 607,568 .... 1973 production numbers 134,267 1974 production numbers 385,993 1975 production numbers 188,575 So the new Mustang II introduced in 74 had almost triple the sales of the 73, but proportionally it seems smaller than the original numbers in 64-65. Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeffrey Nichols" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 7:40 AM To: Cc: Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > "Does anyone think they made Mustang > II cars because they thought they would sell better than the regular one. > " > > > > That was the exact reason why the Mustang II was made. Sales of the early > 70's Mustang had dropped and the car grew to a bloated parody of what it > was > originally. The designers were told to come up with a new Mustang sized > like > the first Mustang. Park a 1964 Mustang next to a 1973 Mustang and you > will > see what I mean. The 1974 Mustang II was a great success with first year > sales rivaling that of the original 1964 Mustang. It helped that the 1973 > gas > crisis came along at the same time as the Mustang II intro. No one has > much > respect for the car now but in its day it was very popular. > > > > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as tigerman67 at hotmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From itswonderful at comcast.net Wed Aug 27 11:42:33 2008 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:42:33 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Message-ID: <40FCBBFF4F65464798D0BBD34C218DBD@FPMengineering> Beware that the temperature read by the IR guns is dependent on the emissivity of the surface being measured. These sensors expect a flat black surface and the temperature they read will be in error on any other surface color or finish. The error is usually small but can be a significant percentage when emissivity is far off what is expected by the sensor. I have a Raytec Minitemp that I use everyday for work. It expects an emissivity of .95 (1.0 is a true black body). When measuring component temperatures I always apply a black label or color a spot with a black sharpie to get more accurate readings. The difference can be several percent between a natural finish piece of aluminum and the same surface colored black. Frank in Cloverdale > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Tiger Man > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:10 AM > To: Steve Ralsten; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? > > If you can, borrow someone's infrared (sometimes called laser) temp gauge, > and point it at something like the brass of the temp sender unit. You may > find that your temp gauge is off by 10-20 degrees. Mine reads about 210, > where the infrared thermometer tells me it really is 195 at the sending > unit. > > If that is the problem, I believe there are a couple articles about how to > build a solid state voltage regulator for your gauges that will make them > more accurate > > Steve > > > > Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a > warm > > evening > > So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two > > blocks at a time red light > > to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External > temp > > was about 92. > > Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. At what point is temperature a > > concern ? > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve > > B9473720 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as itswonderful at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From mark.rense at ge.com Wed Aug 27 11:50:27 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:50:27 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) In-Reply-To: <009001c90866$45281170$0302a8c0@student2> References: <009001c90866$45281170$0302a8c0@student2> Message-ID: Ah, the early '70's and the Mustang II. I was in college and driving a V-6 Capri at the time and test drove the new 1974 Mustang II Mach I, it was almost embarrassing how slow it was compared to my 140 hp English/German hybrid even though it shared the same engine. I guess the Mustang II King Cobra with its anemic 302 was a little better, but only after you trashed all the EPA and Ralph Nader crap. Or do as Jere did and swap out the whole drive train. Man, the '70's were pitiful for us car guys, no wonder I switched to motorcycles for the "need for speed" rush... Bugz -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Witt Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:59 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) Being they were the first heavily smogged Mustangs they got a bad rap. Also, being built on the Pinto platform (and engine in lesser form) didn't help (though the early Mustangs being built on the Falcon platform didn't hurt). Tom From fastsage at cox.net Wed Aug 27 12:31:05 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:31:05 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <40FCBBFF4F65464798D0BBD34C218DBD@FPMengineering> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> <40FCBBFF4F65464798D0BBD34C218DBD@FPMengineering> Message-ID: <48B59D69.1000703@cox.net> I also had a serious problem with vapor lock and the fuel boiling in the carb bowls. I know it was boiling because I have a clear filter right before the carb and in warm to hot weather it would boil away after I stopped. Also, I had all the usual symptoms. I solved the problem by first wrapping the fuel line all the way from the tanks, under the car and up to the carb. That helped some but didn't solve it completely. Next I installed heat shields on the mufflers (My apologies, but I don't remember who posted the tip about that on the list a while back, which is where I got the idea). What completed the job (no more fuel "percolating" in the carb) was a $5 thin sheet of cork I got from Ace Hardware. I taped a small sheet of it under the front and back bowls of my Holley carb. Not especially pretty, but finally, no more vapor lock and fuel boiling. Now here's a question for the list that I still haven't figured out. I think I asked this one before but whatever I've tried hasn't yet worked. This may also be fuel heat related (so maybe I haven't completely solved the issue.) I usually have my idle speed set to around 800 RPM. In warm to hot weather, when the car is at full running temperature (190 to 220 at idle....180-190 at speed, both in 100+ degree weather), when I come to a stop at a light, etc, idle drops considerably, to maybe 600 or even 500 RPM, and it sometimes stalls. It starts right back up with no problem but I will have to work the gas pedal to keep it running. It won't hold that 800 RPM idle on its own. When I take off, it runs great as usual. After a long run, when I come to a stop if water temp is back around 180 or less, the problem goes away. I have messed about with the idle mixture screws repeatedly. Setting them richer or leaner has no apparent effect on the problem. I checked out my power valve as I was told this could have the effect I'm talking about. It seems to be in the range it should be, and I confirmed this with Holley tech support. The only suggestion Holley had was to try re-adjusting the idle screws, which I did with no effect on the issue. By the way, I have calibrated the stock temp gauge pretty accurately so the numbers above should be close. So...any additional ideas out there? Steve Sage 1966 Mk1A, 289, Holly 570 Street Avenger carb (vacuum secondaries). E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10570e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ From CoolVT at aol.com Wed Aug 27 13:24:55 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:24:55 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) Message-ID: Many of the early 70 General Motors cars helped meet the new emission standards by not allowing vacuum advance in the first 2 gears (3 speed standard). They has a solenoid in the vacuum line that only opened when you shifted into 3 rd gear. Also on the 6 cyl. that I was familiar with they had changed the timing from 8 before to 2 degrees. Well, a piece of rubber hose to by pass the solenoid and a change of the timing back to the old setting and the 'in town" mileage went from 10 mpg to 16. I could never figure out the science behind that technical madness. How could there be less pollution if someone was using 50% more gas;-) Thankfully they have overcome the problems. We now have pretty darn good gas mileage and create very little pollution. mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Wed Aug 27 13:49:12 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:49:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> Message-ID: <48B5AFB8.9040003@SoCal.rr.com> Steve R., Temperature is definitely a concern when you are "p-ssing" green on your friend's driveway. :-( Or your engine seizes. Check Out "Cool It, Buddy! " on TigersUnited.com for a California 105 F uphill solution. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Steve Ralsten wrote: > Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a warm > evening > So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two > blocks at a time red light > to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External temp > was about 92. > Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. *At what point is temperature a > concern* ? > > Thanks > > Steve > B9473720 From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Wed Aug 27 14:15:34 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:15:34 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Mustangs I and II In-Reply-To: <003401c93839$8c5a28a0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> References: <003401c93839$8c5a28a0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <48B5B5E6.30408@SoCal.rr.com> Jeff, Having owned both a '66 Mustang GT convertible and a '74 Mustang II, I can tell you that the "II" was smaller than the original Mustang, was heavier, and had much less power, and poor performance. Other than that, it did have air conditioning! Agree that the '67 and subsequent Mustangs got larger, but they were also available with some higher power engines. Sold the '66 for a Tiger. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > "Does anyone think they made Mustang > II cars because they thought they would sell better than the regular one. " > > > > That was the exact reason why the Mustang II was made. Sales of the early > 70's Mustang had dropped and the car grew to a bloated parody of what it was > originally. The designers were told to come up with a new Mustang sized like > the first Mustang. Park a 1964 Mustang next to a 1973 Mustang and you will > see what I mean. The 1974 Mustang II was a great success with first year > sales rivaling that of the original 1964 Mustang. It helped that the 1973 gas > crisis came along at the same time as the Mustang II intro. No one has much > respect for the car now but in its day it was very popular. > > > > > Jeff From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 27 15:07:17 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:07:17 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080827210721.TDSW10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> This is exactly what I am talking about; Government mandating something that even ordinary hot rodders know is wrong and deficient. All of the tanks that people drove in the 60' and before got 20 miles to the gallon and everything after about '72 got ten. The science to that madness is that the government people may have given a mandate that was faulty and deficient but they sure felt good about doing it even if they knew it would be wrong. It is kind of like Chrysler buying Rootes to make Tigers with their engine and then finding out it won't fit. Why didn't they ask some 16 year old hot rod kid. He could have told them. Y2K----Global Cooling--- uhhh global warming anyone. -- Bill -- Many of the early 70 General Motors cars helped meet the new emission standards by not allowing vacuum advance in the first 2 gears (3 speed standard). They has a solenoid in the vacuum line that only opened when you shifted into 3 rd gear. Also on the 6 cyl. that I was familiar with they had changed the timing from 8 before to 2 degrees. Well, a piece of rubber hose to by pass the solenoid and a change of the timing back to the old setting and the 'in town" mileage went from 10 mpg to 16. I could never figure out the science behind that technical madness. How could there be less pollution if someone was using 50% more gas;-) Thankfully they have overcome the problems. We now have pretty darn good gas mileage and create very little pollution. mark From itswonderful at comcast.net Wed Aug 27 15:14:37 2008 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:14:37 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A6B9716A6F54633801E3C1FF084B63D@FPMengineering> I think the idea was to reduce a target component of emissions. NOx I think but I'm not looking it up. For a few years in California you had to install a NOx 'kit" in certain vehicles. These all reduced ignition timing under various conditions. The cheapest one I ever saw consisted of plugs for the vacuum advance hose and a sticker for the speedometer that cautioned against driving over 55 MPH (or something like that). Back then the HC limits were pretty loose. There was definitely a trade off made to reduce certain pollutants while allowing some others to increase. Frank > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of CoolVT at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:25 PM > To: mark.rense at ge.com; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) > > Many of the early 70 General Motors cars helped meet the new emission > standards by not allowing vacuum advance in the first 2 gears (3 speed > standard). > They has a solenoid in the vacuum line that only opened when you shifted > into > 3 rd gear. Also on the 6 cyl. that I was familiar with they had changed > the > timing from 8 before to 2 degrees. > Well, a piece of rubber hose to by pass the solenoid and a change of the > timing back to the old setting and the 'in town" mileage went from 10 mpg > to 16. > I could never figure out the science behind that technical madness. How > could there be less pollution if someone was using 50% more gas;-) > Thankfully > they have overcome the problems. We now have pretty darn good gas > mileage > and create very little pollution. > mark From fastsage at cox.net Wed Aug 27 15:24:15 2008 From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:24:15 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <546860.90170.qm@web30308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <546860.90170.qm@web30308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48B5C5FF.7050000@cox.net> Tony Somebody wrote: > Steve- are you running a BIG cam? One that would not make as much vaccum as a stock cam would. Tony: Excellent idea but the cam is a pretty mild "medium" piece so I don't think that's what's going on. I get about 15.5 vacuum when hot and probably closer to 16 when cold, so there's not much difference. Steve S. E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10570e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ From atwittsend at verizon.net Wed Aug 27 15:37:09 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:37:09 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) References: <6A6B9716A6F54633801E3C1FF084B63D@FPMengineering> Message-ID: <013401c9088d$0f459880$0302a8c0@student2> >>>I think the idea was to reduce a target component of emissions. NOx I >>>think... There was definitely a trade off made to reduce certain pollutants while allowing some others to increase.<<< That is pretty much it - back then. I can remember the guy at the gas station smogging my first car back in 1976 (Datsun 510). He would turn the idle mixture screw and as one level (CO I think - maybe NOX???) went up the HC would go down and visa versa. The agony was that even at the most balanced setting one or both were still out of range. :-( From my understanding the HC can go up if you are too lean. Seems strange, but apparently there is not enough fuel to adaquately burn the mixture. That unburned fuel from the lean condition creates high HC reading. One thing that people often say is to put Premium fuel in the car before the test. Some indicate it is an old wives tale. Since NOX is typically formed from a combustion chamber that is too hot there might be something to it on a car that has high NOX levels. If the Premium lessens the liklihood of pinging under load I would think that NOX could possibly be lowered in a marginally failing car. Something else to remember is that the smog laws typically require an unmaintained car to pass even after 10's of 1,000's of miles. Thus, I'm sure they have to overshoot the regulations from the start. Tom No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1637 - Release Date: 8/27/2008 7:01 AM From awtiger at cox.net Wed Aug 27 16:45:04 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (Andy Walker) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:45:04 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <48B5AFB8.9040003@SoCal.rr.com> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> <48B5AFB8.9040003@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <67C6F93232ED48968FB543E31332B402@awtigerPC> Steve R.: But, until the Tiger is p*issing green on your friend's driveway, don't worry about it. I can assure you that Carroll's car (your car) never p*issed in my driveway. And, Lord knows, it had a lot of opportunities... Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Laifman" To: "Steve Ralsten" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? > Steve R., > > Temperature is definitely a concern when you are "p-ssing" green on your > friend's driveway. :-( > > Or your engine seizes. > > Check Out "Cool It, Buddy! > " > on TigersUnited.com for a California 105 F uphill solution. > > Steve > > ___ > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > > > > Steve Ralsten wrote: >> Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a warm >> evening >> So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two >> blocks at a time red light >> to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External >> temp >> was about 92. >> Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. *At what point is temperature a >> concern* ? >> >> Thanks >> >> Steve >> B9473720 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From MWood24020 at aol.com Wed Aug 27 17:09:18 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:09:18 EDT Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Message-ID: This whole issue of cooling is another example of why stock and "stock" have become such conveniently blurred distinctions in the wonderful world of the Tiger...there are a number of aspects native to the beast that seriously impair one's ability to actually use and (thoroughly) enjoy the vehicle without deviation from oem, you've just encountered one of them ;-) Mike **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Wed Aug 27 18:04:49 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:04:49 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: The other stat they didn't mention is the increase in rapes, assaults, robbery and property crime, etc. What the stat doesn't take into account is the overall reduction in crime overall when the criminals know they might be confronted by an armed citizen...the private ownership of firearms is a deterrent to all crimes. Moonstone ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 27 19:18:40 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:18:40 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080828011843.EYRE10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> You are right on. Kudos to you. - Bill -- Love my country...fear my government. Moonstone From PhastPhill at aol.com Wed Aug 27 19:27:53 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:27:53 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: So give us some links to those stats....esp the one bout packing heat. From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 27 19:28:19 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:28:19 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) In-Reply-To: <6A6B9716A6F54633801E3C1FF084B63D@FPMengineering> Message-ID: <20080828012823.FLUI10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> It is great for someone to have an idea but you can't double the fuel usage and expect to make less pollution because you will cause some other problem like maybe not enough gasoline to go around and that is if the NOX went down, which I doubt. Every few years we hear new buzz words that are going to kill us all unless our government acts immediately. This way we are coerced into thinking that they are necessary so we will vote for them, and against big anything. -- Bill -- I think the idea was to reduce a target component of emissions. NOx I think but I'm not looking it up. For a few years in California you had to install a NOx 'kit" in certain vehicles. These all reduced ignition timing under various conditions. The cheapest one I ever saw consisted of plugs for the vacuum advance hose and a sticker for the speedometer that cautioned against driving over 55 MPH (or something like that). Back then the HC limits were pretty loose. There was definitely a trade off made to reduce certain pollutants while allowing some others to increase. Frank From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 27 19:29:55 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:29:55 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080828012959.FXLE29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Go to the NRA page and you will find them. Lots of them. - Bill -- _____ From: PhastPhill at aol.com [mailto:PhastPhill at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:28 PM To: Drmoonstone at aol.com; owain.lloyd at gmail.com; mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion So give us some links to those stats....esp the one bout packing heat. From itswonderful at comcast.net Wed Aug 27 19:46:02 2008 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:46:02 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) In-Reply-To: <20080828012823.FLUI10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <6A6B9716A6F54633801E3C1FF084B63D@FPMengineering> <20080828012823.FLUI10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <88B299AF302C429A89C8F8CC31661622@FPMengineering> Hey, didn't say it made sense. Just stating the facts Jack. I for one totally agree with you. On the other hand, and I can't believe I'm going to admit this, the EPA regulations that started out here on the left coast in the mid-sixties actually resulted in an irrefutable benefit for mankind. The air got cleaner and ultimately the cost increase became low and the fun reduction factor negligible. I'm using new car performance and emissions as my proof of this. Not saying I agree with the means to this ends. 20 years (1967 thru 1987) of seemingly and actually silly regulations, 10 years (1974 thru 1984) of cars that sucked with respect to performance and hobby-appeal, and arguably the beginning of the end for US automotive dominance. All this because technology had to catch up to legislation. Frank > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of William Lau > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:28 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) > > It is great for someone to have an idea but you can't double the fuel > usage > and expect to make less pollution because you will cause some other > problem > like maybe not enough gasoline to go around and that is if the NOX went > down, which I doubt. Every few years we hear new buzz words that are going > to kill us all unless our government acts immediately. This way we are > coerced into thinking that they are necessary so we will vote for them, > and > against big anything. -- Bill -- > > > I think the idea was to reduce a target component of emissions. NOx I > think > but I'm not looking it up. For a few years in California you had to > install > a NOx 'kit" in certain vehicles. These all reduced ignition timing under > various conditions. The cheapest one I ever saw consisted of plugs for > the > vacuum advance hose and a sticker for the speedometer that cautioned > against > driving over 55 MPH (or something like that). Back then the HC limits > were > pretty loose. There was definitely a trade off made to reduce certain > pollutants while allowing some others to increase. > > Frank > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as itswonderful at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From itswonderful at comcast.net Wed Aug 27 20:00:25 2008 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:00:25 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) In-Reply-To: <20080828012823.FLUI10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <6A6B9716A6F54633801E3C1FF084B63D@FPMengineering> <20080828012823.FLUI10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <9BD7E1475B8C406A95A399AF10E4024F@FPMengineering> By the way, no I won't have to admit the same thing 20 years from now about the elimination of lead wheel weights. I believe any benefit from the lead wheel weight ban will always be a matter of passion, opinion and imagination. Frank Hey, didn't say it made sense. Just stating the facts Jack. I for one totally agree with you. On the other hand, and I can't believe I'm going to admit this, the EPA regulations that started out here on the left coast in the mid-sixties actually resulted in an irrefutable benefit for mankind. The air got cleaner and ultimately the cost increase became low and the fun reduction factor negligible. I'm using new car performance and emissions as my proof of this. Not saying I agree with the means to this ends. 20 years (1967 thru 1987) of seemingly and actually silly regulations, 10 years (1974 thru 1984) of cars that sucked with respect to performance and hobby-appeal, and arguably the beginning of the end for US automotive dominance. All this because technology had to catch up to legislation. Frank > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of William Lau > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:28 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) > > It is great for someone to have an idea but you can't double the fuel > usage > and expect to make less pollution because you will cause some other > problem > like maybe not enough gasoline to go around and that is if the NOX went > down, which I doubt. Every few years we hear new buzz words that are going > to kill us all unless our government acts immediately. This way we are > coerced into thinking that they are necessary so we will vote for them, > and > against big anything. -- Bill -- > > > I think the idea was to reduce a target component of emissions. NOx I > think > but I'm not looking it up. For a few years in California you had to > install > a NOx 'kit" in certain vehicles. These all reduced ignition timing under > various conditions. The cheapest one I ever saw consisted of plugs for > the > vacuum advance hose and a sticker for the speedometer that cautioned > against > driving over 55 MPH (or something like that). Back then the HC limits > were > pretty loose. There was definitely a trade off made to reduce certain > pollutants while allowing some others to increase. > > Frank > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as itswonderful at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 27 20:02:47 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) In-Reply-To: <88B299AF302C429A89C8F8CC31661622@FPMengineering> Message-ID: <20080828020251.HRDF29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> Well said, This is probably the biggest of all of the issues. -- Bill -- You said: and arguably the beginning of the end for US automotive dominance. Hey, didn't say it made sense. Just stating the facts Jack. I for one totally agree with you. On the other hand, and I can't believe I'm going to admit this, the EPA regulations that started out here on the left coast in the mid-sixties actually resulted in an irrefutable benefit for mankind. The air got cleaner and ultimately the cost increase became low and the fun reduction factor negligible. I'm using new car performance and emissions as my proof of this. Not saying I agree with the means to this ends. 20 years (1967 thru 1987) of seemingly and actually silly regulations, 10 years (1974 thru 1984) of cars that sucked with respect to performance and hobby-appeal, and arguably the beginning of the end for US automotive dominance. All this because technology had to catch up to legislation. Frank From PhastPhill at aol.com Wed Aug 27 20:23:42 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:23:42 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an organization with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! From wsamouce at kc.rr.com Wed Aug 27 20:42:20 2008 From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:42:20 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c908b7$b1b61f70$15225e50$@rr.com> Could you guys please take this private. I am getting tired of deleting 20 emails a day that have nothing to do with the Tiger. Thanks, Duke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PhastPhill at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:24 PM To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an organization with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net Wed Aug 27 20:59:52 2008 From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:59:52 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] CORONADO BOUND? References: Message-ID: <001101c908ba$24b96980$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Hi Jeff, I know that Tom Sakai, Dale A and our SCF Tiger all got accepted for the Coronado race. As usual, all Tiger owners are invited to visit our pits & hang out. I think we have a CAT meeting scheduled there during the Saturday lunch break. Also, a bunch of us end up at Miguel's in Coronado for dinner on Saturday night. Steve Alcala usually hands out Tiger corral passes (310 322-6323) hope to see you there, Buck Trippel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:57 AM Subject: [Tigers] CORONADO BOUND? > Are any listers planning to attend the historic races on Coronado (CA) in > late September? Is there a Tiger corral or special parking area planned? > If > so, let me know. I'm closing in on a new Tiger acquisition and would like > to > join the conflagration. > jeff the tigerman From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 27 21:06:59 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:06:59 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <000001c908b7$b1b61f70$15225e50$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20080828030703.KQIY29012.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark> If that was your thought why didn't you make this private? -- Bill -- Could you guys please take this private. I am getting tired of deleting 20 emails a day that have nothing to do with the Tiger. Thanks, Duke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PhastPhill at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:24 PM To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an organization From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 27 20:27:05 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:27:05 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080828022708.IOXP10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> You wouldn't accept the truth about this if you did the poll and research yourself. - Bill -- _____ From: PhastPhill at aol.com [mailto:PhastPhill at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:24 PM To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an organization with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! From PhastPhill at aol.com Wed Aug 27 21:42:28 2008 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:42:28 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: I do not accept the "truth" from any special interest group. be it gun nuts like the NRA or the " truth" about inferior races from Himmler, or the commie threat form Joe McCarthy, or "weapons of mass destruction" from dubba and dickhead, or the shit peddled by faux news. I'm your worst nightmare, a commie, pinko, left wing, hippie dippy, from the 60's. A universal health care, liberal who actually gives a damn about the people in my country. people who need good affordable education, good low cost housing, universal health care, and a government that helps it's people so we can move ahead in this century. And yes as a farmer I do own several long guns, I do not enjoy using them but sometimes we use them as tools. If you get pleasure from them your what George Carlin....a great american.. called a sick f**k.....Ah a good rant....did I mention Tricky Dick and Spiro Agnew ? just some more great american right wing neo-cons, boy you sure can grow em. From achd73 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 27 20:41:35 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] and here we go again! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <851489.51544.qm@web30308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here we go again- didnt we just go thru this. The NRA has done as much for the normal citizen as Tiger Tom and Dale A. have done for The Beam family and thats a fact jack. Im not a member of the group BUT I should be, since I do have family members with guns. Read your history and see what you learn about when the goverment comes and takes your guns away.You wont be able to stop them frpm taking that freaky car that the commies buikt in the 60s- sneaking foriegn cars into the country with american engines. Rake the car and thier guns as well, they have no right to own the gun or pollute our air with that freaky car.TonytheTiger --- On Wed, 8/27/08, PhastPhill at aol.com wrote: > From: PhastPhill at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > To: mrlau at charter.net, tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 9:23 PM > The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats > from an organization > with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From srwick at hotmail.com Wed Aug 27 21:55:57 2008 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:55:57 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion References: <000001c908b7$b1b61f70$15225e50$@rr.com> Message-ID: I agree. As much help as this group has been to me with my Tiger, I'm about ready to bail out. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Duke Samouce To: PhastPhill at aol.com ; mrlau at charter.net ; tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Could you guys please take this private. I am getting tired of deleting 20 emails a day that have nothing to do with the Tiger. Thanks, Duke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PhastPhill at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:24 PM To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an organization with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as srwick at hotmail.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From mmichels at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 27 22:22:34 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:22:34 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> <000001c90842$ca6a2ef0$5f3e8cd0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <00f401c908c5$b25627a0$6401a8c0@delldimension> Steve, Duke's right. Make sure the radiator core isn't clogged. Everything you need to know is in this article. I did all of this, plus a leaner coolant mixture (60% distilled water, 40% antifreeze, even less antifreeze in mild climates). Be sure to use long life antifreeze like Zerex GL 5, or anything without silicates. Overheating problems are gone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duke Samouce" To: "'Steve Ralsten'" ; Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:45 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? > Hey Steve, > > I have BTDT...except my Tiger would push towards 230 on the highway with > 50 > temp. I had a 50% blocked radiator. > > All you need to know for cooling the Tiger is in this article - > http://www.teae.org/cooling/cooling_article.html > > If you determine that you radiator is healthy, which it seems to be, I > would > block off the horn holes and install a 15" and then re-evaluate. > > Here is what I made to block the horn holes - > > http://e28-535i.com/upload/HHP1_1.JPG > http://e28-535i.com/upload/HHP2_1.JPG > http://e28-535i.com/upload/HHP3_1.JPG > > Some sheet aluminum and door strip sealer from Home Depot. They are a > friction fit installed from the front side of the radiator bulkhead. > > Duke > > B382002037 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Steve > Ralsten > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:35 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? > > Got my new baby delivered by truck this afternoon and took her for a warm > evening > So Cal drive. On the hiway temp gauge indicated 180 or so but going two > blocks at a time red light > to red light to red light she was a bit over 200, maybe 210. External temp > was about 92. > Car has a stock radiator and 4 blade fan. At what point is temperature a > concern ? > > Thanks > > Steve > B9473720 > You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From michael.s.king at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 22:23:14 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:23:14 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have stayed out of this... but feel compelled to answer.. guys.. please.. be reasonable.. there are lots of different opinions.. lots of different ideas etc.. but i dont think this is an appropriate forum for this stuff.. you all have each others emails.. dont bomb the list with each response mail each other and fight.. as a group i think this list is super helpful with all the tiger issues.. and thats what its there for.. its fine to post stuff thats a bit off topic.. but when it over runs everything else we dilute the value of our Tiger community. I think you're all decent blokes.. so start behaving like it ;-) -- Regards Michael King From mmichels at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 27 22:28:04 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:28:04 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion References: <000001c908b7$b1b61f70$15225e50$@rr.com> Message-ID: <014201c908c6$776c41a0$6401a8c0@delldimension> Amen!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duke Samouce" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > Could you guys please take this private. I am getting tired of deleting > 20 > emails a day that have nothing to do with the Tiger. > > Thanks, > Duke > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > PhastPhill at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:24 PM > To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > > The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an > organization > > with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! > You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From jteepen at usatoday.com Wed Aug 27 23:00:42 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:00:42 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <000001c908b7$b1b61f70$15225e50$@rr.com> Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250C8F61E@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Perhaps the list administrator could have a private chat with the major offenders that seen to have hijacked the list for their personal agenda. Thanks, Jere United We Stand, Divided We Fall. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Duke Samouce Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:42 PM To: PhastPhill at aol.com; mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Could you guys please take this private. I am getting tired of deleting 20 emails a day that have nothing to do with the Tiger. Thanks, Duke -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PhastPhill at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:24 PM To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an organization with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Wed Aug 27 23:35:02 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:35:02 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion (Mustang II'S) Message-ID: I lived in Montebello in the early 50's. We had an incenerator in the back yard. There were times when you couldn't walk outside because of the smog. It was terrible. Thank The Gods for the EPA. In a message dated 8/27/2008 7:48:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mrlau at charter.net writes: Well said, This is probably the biggest of all of the issues. -- Bill -- You said: and arguably the beginning of the end for US automotive dominance. Hey, didn't say it made sense. Just stating the facts Jack. I for one totally agree with you. On the other hand, and I can't believe I'm going to admit this, the EPA regulations that started out here on the left coast in the mid-sixties actually resulted in an irrefutable benefit for mankind. The air got cleaner and ultimately the cost increase became low and the fun reduction factor negligible. I'm using new car performance and emissions as my proof of this. Not saying I agree with the means to this ends. 20 years (1967 thru 1987) of seemingly and actually silly regulations, 10 years (1974 thru 1984) of cars that sucked with respect to performance and hobby-appeal, and arguably the beginning of the end for US automotive dominance. All this because technology had to catch up to legislation. Frank You are subscribed as aaaglasss at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 04:52:09 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:52:09 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] metric thread on subaru master cyl Message-ID: <39a841b0808280352t3cb29741q300ef687631ba598@mail.gmail.com> hello, can anyone tell me what the attachment fitting is on the subaru dual circuit master cylinder? i'm guessing its something like 10mm x 1 female or 10mm x 1.25 female. i don't have the unit in my hands yet and i'm trying to order the plumbing bits i need in advance. thanks. From awtiger at cox.net Thu Aug 28 05:35:09 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (Andy Walker) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:35:09 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <000001c908b7$b1b61f70$15225e50$@rr.com> References: <000001c908b7$b1b61f70$15225e50$@rr.com> Message-ID: <96FEAF3267374A4AAE8F4F050EE7CDB7@awtigerPC> I'm with Duke...if you want talk about the NRA and all that other buisiness, do it somewhere else. And for those of you who seem to take pleasure in causing dissonance in the group, then DEFINITELY do it somewhere else. I, too, am getting tired of deleting all this stuff. This is the "Tiger forum," not the "I'm gonna see how much crap I can stir up" forum. We're here to discuss Tigers, so lets stay on the subject. Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B8006857LRX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duke Samouce" To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > Could you guys please take this private. I am getting tired of deleting > 20 > emails a day that have nothing to do with the Tiger. > > Thanks, > Duke > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > PhastPhill at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:24 PM > To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > > The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an > organization > > with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! > You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From wsamouce at kc.rr.com Thu Aug 28 05:42:13 2008 From: wsamouce at kc.rr.com (Duke Samouce) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:42:13 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: <00f401c908c5$b25627a0$6401a8c0@delldimension> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600> <000001c90842$ca6a2ef0$5f3e8cd0$@rr.com> <00f401c908c5$b25627a0$6401a8c0@delldimension> Message-ID: <000001c90903$1d680d00$58382700$@rr.com> I have been doing some research and have read different things. Bob Mannel indicates in his book Mustang & Ford Small Block V8 that Ford engines from 62/65 were satin black and engines 66-69 were Ford Blue. Who knows what the 260 in the Tiger was painted for the 66 model year? Thanks, Duke B382002037 From shutchin at netjets.com Thu Aug 28 07:31:29 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:31:29 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? Message-ID: Hey, we could have another poll. 382000829. Black. TBON shows the cutover to blue a bit earlier than this. I would love to know if there is anyone else out there who has a black engine in a car somewhere near this vin. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 08:00:04 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:00:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: <000001c90903$1d680d00$58382700$@rr.com> Message-ID: <000001c90916$612dc5d0$54b21840@ronpc1> Duke Norm Miller printed all this information in his book; The Book of Norman or TBON. B9470001 to B382000600 Black B382000601 to End Old Ford Dark Blue Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Duke Samouce Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 7:42 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? I have been doing some research and have read different things. Bob Mannel indicates in his book Mustang & Ford Small Block V8 that Ford engines from 62/65 were satin black and engines 66-69 were Ford Blue. Who knows what the 260 in the Tiger was painted for the 66 model year? Thanks, Duke B382002037 You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 08:16:59 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:16:59 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c90918$c05857d0$54b21840@ronpc1> Scott Just a note here; when I painted my engine 30 years ago I had no information source about what color the engine should be. I painted it Old Ford Dark Blue because other parts on the engine seemed to be that color. The Dark Blue now looks like Black after all the years of heat cycles. I'm therefore not sure we can absolutely distinguish between the 2 colors, but then again it could just be the spray can of paint I used then. If I pull the engine it will be painted Black. Let's see what the poll says. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Hutchinson Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:31 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? Hey, we could have another poll. 382000829. Black. TBON shows the cutover to blue a bit earlier than this. I would love to know if there is anyone else out there who has a black engine in a car somewhere near this vin. Scott Hutchinson Director of Operations Netjets Large Aircraft Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From todbrown at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 28 08:28:19 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:28:19 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? Message-ID: <48B6B603.7010200@roadrunner.com> Duke: You are correct about the early Tigers' engines being satin black. It is my understanding that the engines were purchased from Ford in two batches (260's, that is). The early ones were black and the later ones were Old Ford Blue. When the changeover took place, I do not know, but someone with access to BON might be able to come up with that. My Tiger is a late MkIA and the engine (and transmission) were OFB. I learned the hard way that OFB is not the same color as the blue used for the '66 model year by the Ford factory when the guy I had doing the body work on my car did me the "favor" of painting my engine. The robin egg blue (or whatever it is called) is not the correct engine color. Tod B382002384LRXFE From shutchin at netjets.com Thu Aug 28 08:39:56 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:39:56 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: <000001c90916$612dc5d0$54b21840@ronpc1> References: <000001c90903$1d680d00$58382700$@rr.com> <000001c90916$612dc5d0$54b21840@ronpc1> Message-ID: I have talked to Norm about this and difference between what is in his book and in my car. He stated that the information in his book is not necessarily absolute. Of course I could have the wrong engine in my car. It is a 260. It is black and all the documentation that I have points to it being the original one. Just curious.. Duke Norm Miller printed all this information in his book; The Book of Norman or TBON. B9470001 to B382000600 Black B382000601 to End Old Ford Dark Blue Ron Fraser * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Aug 28 08:44:43 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:44:43 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion In-Reply-To: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250C8F61E@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> References: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250C8F61E@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Message-ID: <48B6B9DB.80004@mayfco.com> Hey, Jere, was nice seeing you on the salt! A comment to all: As do many I hit the delete key when things get out of hand. But the group dynamics are interesting to say the least. If you went to a gathering of people who owned tigers, say the TU, and you were there with lots and lots of people of all walks of life who owned or wished they owned or used to own Tigers, would every word that came out of our mouths be about Tigers? Would you spend every waking moment asking abot lead weights or lug nuts or chrome lettering or penta stars? No, of course not. Tigers make up only a small part of our daily lives and most of the rest of the time we just go on living with other people. We are a community and community residents do talk to each other. It is kinda nice when we get comfortable enough with our neighbors that all kinds of subjects can be discussed. It makes us as Tiger owners even closer to each other. We begin to "know" each other. We sorta become buddies through bonding this way. Or just hit delete and be a hermit, lol.. mayf Teepen, Jere wrote: >Perhaps the list administrator could have a private chat with the major >offenders that seen to have hijacked the list for their personal agenda. > >Thanks, > >Jere > >United We Stand, Divided We Fall. > >-----Original Message----- >From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net >[mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Duke >Samouce >Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:42 PM >To: PhastPhill at aol.com; mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > >Could you guys please take this private. I am getting tired of deleting 20 >emails a day that have nothing to do with the Tiger. > >Thanks, >Duke > >-----Original Message----- >From: tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net >[mailto:tigers-bounces+wsamouce=kc.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >PhastPhill at aol.com >Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:24 PM >To: mrlau at charter.net; tigers at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion > >The NRA....???? That's a JOKE RIGHT....how about stats from an organization > >with at least a little bit of credibility.!!!!!!!! >You are subscribed as wsamouce at kc.rr.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers >_______________________________________________ >Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >You are subscribed as drmayf at mayfco.com > >Tigers at autox.team.net >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > >http://www.team.net/archive From mark.rense at ge.com Thu Aug 28 08:52:02 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:52:02 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: <000001c90903$1d680d00$58382700$@rr.com> References: <004301c907fe$4aba70f0$6501a8c0@DELL4600><000001c90842$ca6a2ef0$5f3e8cd0$@rr.com><00f401c908c5$b25627a0$6401a8c0@delldimension> <000001c90903$1d680d00$58382700$@rr.com> Message-ID: Pole data: B382000991 - Black - original 260 engine was LAT1'd and cammed, but head and block casting numbers indicate originality B382001465 - OFB - original untouched engine Bugz From parlanti at comcast.net Thu Aug 28 08:52:07 2008 From: parlanti at comcast.net (parlanti at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:52:07 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? Message-ID: <082820081452.14368.48B6BB970005784D000038202216554886079B020E049D0E9F@comcast.net> My engine is black with ser. no. B382000026. -- Joseph V. Parlanti 16048 Copen Meadow Dr. North Potomac, Md. 20878 Cell - 301-461-0626 Email - Parlanti at comcast.net -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Scott Hutchinson" > Hey, we could have another poll. > > 382000829. > > Black. > > TBON shows the cutover to blue a bit earlier than this. I would love to know if > there is anyone else out there who has a black engine in a car somewhere near > this vin. From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 08:52:41 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:52:41 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c9091d$bc147a50$54b21840@ronpc1> When it come to the Tiger production; nothing is absolute. Maybe the key here is to correlate engine color to the engine number and date code. I would think that engine lots would be the same color. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: Scott Hutchinson [mailto:shutchin at netjets.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:40 AM To: rfraser at bluefrog.com; Duke Samouce; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? I have talked to Norm about this and difference between what is in his book and in my car. He stated that the information in his book is not necessarily absolute. Of course I could have the wrong engine in my car. It is a 260. It is black and all the documentation that I have points to it being the original one. Just curious.. Duke Norm Miller printed all this information in his book; The Book of Norman or TBON. B9470001 to B382000600 Black B382000601 to End Old Ford Dark Blue Ron Fraser * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From shutchin at netjets.com Thu Aug 28 09:18:12 2008 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:18:12 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: <000201c9091d$bc147a50$54b21840@ronpc1> References: <000201c9091d$bc147a50$54b21840@ronpc1> Message-ID: That's a great idea... I'll have to see if I have the data written down. When it come to the Tiger production; nothing is absolute. Maybe the key here is to correlate engine color to the engine number and date code. I would think that engine lots would be the same color. Ron Fraser * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From todbrown at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 28 09:45:49 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:45:49 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lack of Discussion Message-ID: <48B6C82D.8060202@roadrunner.com> Since I apparently started this thread with my comments about environmental lead, I wish to apologize for getting the list so far off track. It was not my intent to stir up the lurking paranoia and expressions of self-interest on the part of some but, rather, to express my concern about the fact that lead is not a friendly substance. I was not endorsing the ban on lead weights as I think it is probably an over- reaction which a little education could correct. My attempt at humor by referring to brain damage in Washington was directed at the general population of politicians, not just Republicans. On the other hand, I do object to people labeling me and attributing motivations and positions to me that they have no possible way of knowing. I have opinions that may be at odds with those of others but that should not subject me and others to attacks for holding such opinions. I do agree that it would be best to not discuss such things in this forum and I will try to choose my words more carefully in the future to avoid such excitement. However, the FREEDOM to express ourselves should not be something any of us should attempt to stifle. Tod B382002384LRXFE From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 28 09:50:54 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:50:54 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Descriptive Comment - No Political content so listers can delete if they want politics Message-ID: <002701c90925$db931820$6401a8c0@your03667082de> Check out the Sunbeam Tiger Ebay Item number: 320292008034 description and I quote: "The car is the prettiest Tiger I've ever seen " and this is from the seller. Such a manly car and to call it "Pretty" seems rather Metro-Sexual to me. I suggest "Meanest", "Coolest", "Baddest", "Best Looking". or anything other that "Prettiest"! I had a husband and wife look at my car several weeks ago and the wife complemented my car by calling it the "Cutest little car I've seen". I told her with mock horror that I wouldn't be caught dead driving a "cute" car. Her husband just laughed. Jeff From CoolVT at aol.com Thu Aug 28 09:52:38 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:52:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Lack of Discussion Message-ID: Tod, I think your remarks are well spoken. No one is trying to stifle anyone. We are not trying to stifle your FREEDOM. We are merely asking that you and others express your free speech on a different forum. Mark L **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 09:55:05 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:55:05 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Lack of Discussion In-Reply-To: <48B6C82D.8060202@roadrunner.com> References: <48B6C82D.8060202@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0808280855ke147e9em234424a85d15928c@mail.gmail.com> well said. can we move on now? there's been more emails _about_ the controversial remarks than there were originally said remarks! to change the subject - anyone installed the subaru master and can answer my earlier question about the flare threads? :) On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Tod Brown wrote: > Since I apparently started this thread with my comments about > environmental lead, I wish to apologize > for getting the list so far off track. It was not my intent to stir > up the lurking paranoia and expressions of > self-interest on the part of some but, rather, to express my concern > about the fact that lead is not a > friendly substance. I was not endorsing the ban on lead weights as I > think it is probably an over- > reaction which a little education could correct. My attempt at humor > by referring to brain damage > in Washington was directed at the general population of politicians, > not just Republicans. On the > other hand, I do object to people labeling me and attributing > motivations and positions to me that > they have no possible way of knowing. I have opinions that may be at > odds with those of others > but that should not subject me and others to attacks for holding such > opinions. I do agree that it > would be best to not discuss such things in this forum and I will try > to choose my words more > carefully in the future to avoid such excitement. However, the > FREEDOM to express ourselves > should not be something any of us should attempt to stifle. > Tod > B382002384LRXFE > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From harryb at elams.org Thu Aug 28 10:56:47 2008 From: harryb at elams.org (Harry B. Elam) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:56:47 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Engine paint Message-ID: <48B6D8CF.2060905@elams.org> My input - B382000471 came with black paint. B382002027 had blue. Both were titled as 1966's. Harry Elam From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 10:00:47 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:00:47 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c90927$413fbb00$84b11840@ronpc1> Here is a list of engine date codes; Tiger Engine Order Date codes 1 T15KL 8-15-63 2 E7KL 11-7-63 3 G13KA 1-13-64 4 L2KA 3-2-64 5 A12KA 4-12-64 6 A27KA 4-27-64 7 K22KA 6-22-64 8 T12KA 8-12-64 9 S6KA 10-6-64 10 S27KA 10-27-64 11 F21KA 12-21-64 12 B19KC 2-19-65 13 A11KK 4-11-66 14 A22KK 4-22-66 My engine's date code is F21KA; this block and all previous engines should be Black according to TBON. Everyone should just check and we will see if there are any discrepancies. The real question should be what color is your F21KA or B19KC block. These date codes span the serial numbers in question. B19KC blocks are first listed in TBON around B382000164 and F21KA blocks extent to around B3820001058. Let the poll begin. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: Scott Hutchinson [mailto:shutchin at netjets.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:18 AM To: rfraser at bluefrog.com; Duke Samouce; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? That's a great idea... I'll have to see if I have the data written down. When it come to the Tiger production; nothing is absolute. Maybe the key here is to correlate engine color to the engine number and date code. I would think that engine lots would be the same color. Ron Fraser * ******** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From CoolVT at aol.com Thu Aug 28 10:03:07 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:03:07 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Descriptive Comment - No Political content so listers can ... Message-ID: Check out the Sunbeam Tiger Ebay Item number: 320292008034 description It is a nice looking car. This raises a question that I asked a few days ago and got no response on.....the car in question here has a spoiler. I can see how this might force air into the grill when the car's moving. The question is, with this spoiler, should the opening under the spoiler (between it and the crossmember) be closed off? Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu Aug 28 10:38:02 2008 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:38:02 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Descriptive Comment - No Political content so listers can ... Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157C5F241@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> That's a good idea in any case, because it helps to keep the engine fan from recirculating the air that has already passed through the rad. Tim Ronak made a bunch of air dams (mounted vertically) to aid this situation also. Theo From sralsten at ca.rr.com Thu Aug 28 11:04:49 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:04:49 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Re How hot is hot ? Message-ID: <25612507.202721219943089502.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> Thanks all for the help. My mistake so far... I reported the fan as stock 4 blade. Apparently I don't count as well as I once did It is 5 blade. I'll start this weekend by making certain that what I do have in place is working properly by flushing the radiator and perhaps replacing the thermostat. It's been a long long time since I did any of my own car work and I've never done it on a Tiger. I don't know what laser thermometers cost but I'll try to find or buy one. First question, are Tigers metric ? One suggestion I got was "flush and back flush" I don't understand back flush ? I do understand running water through from the radiator end with the heater on. The shop manual suggested one of "several" brands of radiator cleaners. Any suggestions on a modern brand ? I also see no indication of how full the overflow tank should be. Where do I fill it to ? I've been told water is a better coolant than anitfreeze and since its only been below 32 degrees here once in 20 years I'll probably go 90/10 mixture. The car came from Oklahoma and may be running much more antifreeze. If I still have doubts after this I'll start looking at mods in that TEAE article. Steve From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 11:09:03 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:09:03 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Descriptive Comment - No Political content so listers can ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c90930$cbb77d50$84b11840@ronpc1> Mark That is a good question and I'm not sure any of us can answer it without doing the experiments. IMO that spoiler is overkill and it definitely would not survive my driveway and possibly not a "sleeping policeman". For those of you not fluent in British speak; sleeping policeman = speed bump. It does appear to be made of a plastic material; looks a bit like lawn edging. I do believe that the TE/AE cooling tip states that a small spoiler just in front of the radiator will create a low pressure zone behind the radiator. This is exactly what most modern cars have today. I would take one of them off a parts car and cut it to fit. The other cooling tip is to finish off the lower part of the original Tiger shroud to make sure the fan is drawing air through all of the radiator and not around it. These are the things I would look at first. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of CoolVT at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:03 PM To: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Descriptive Comment - No Political content so listers can ... Check out the Sunbeam Tiger Ebay Item number: 320292008034 description It is a nice looking car. This raises a question that I asked a few days ago and got no response on.....the car in question here has a spoiler. I can see how this might force air into the grill when the car's moving. The question is, with this spoiler, should the opening under the spoiler (between it and the crossmember) be closed off? Mark **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 11:10:46 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:10:46 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Re How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <25612507.202721219943089502.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> References: <25612507.202721219943089502.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> Message-ID: <39a841b0808281010q40c40acema28deae23fedc96c@mail.gmail.com> for the IR thermometer (laser guided) try harborfreight.com - i got one for about $15 there last year. On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 6:04 PM, wrote: > Thanks all for the help. My mistake so far... > > I reported the fan as stock 4 blade. Apparently I don't count as well as I once did It is 5 blade. > > I'll start this weekend by making certain that what I do have in place is working properly by flushing the radiator and perhaps replacing the thermostat. It's been a long long time since I did any of my own car work and I've never done it on a Tiger. > > > I don't know what laser thermometers cost but I'll try to find or buy one. > > First question, are Tigers metric ? > > One suggestion I got was "flush and back flush" I don't understand back flush ? > I do understand running water through from the radiator end with the heater on. > > The shop manual suggested one of "several" brands of radiator cleaners. Any suggestions on a modern brand ? > > I also see no indication of how full the overflow tank should be. Where do I fill it > to ? > > I've been told water is a better coolant than anitfreeze and since its only been below 32 degrees here once in 20 years I'll probably go 90/10 mixture. The car came from Oklahoma and may be running much more antifreeze. > > If I still have doubts after this I'll start looking at mods in that TEAE article. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From sralsten at ca.rr.com Thu Aug 28 11:15:39 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:15:39 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Re How hot is hot ? Message-ID: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> Thanks all for the help. My mistake so far... I reported the fan as stock 4 blade. Apparently I don't count as well as I once did It is 5 blade. I'll start this weekend by making certain that what I do have in place is working properly by flushing the radiator and perhaps replacing the thermostat. It's been a long long time since I did any of my own car work and I've never done it on a Tiger. I don't know what laser thermometers cost but I'll try to find or buy one. First question, are Tigers metric ? One suggestion I got was "flush and back flush" I don't understand back flush ? I do understand running water through from the radiator end with the heater on. The shop manual suggested one of "several" brands of radiator cleaners. Any suggestions on a modern brand ? I also see no indication of how full the overflow tank should be. Where do I fill it to ? I've been told water is a better coolant than anitfreeze and since its only been below 32 degrees here once in 20 years I'll probably go 90/10 mixture. The car came from Oklahoma and may be running much more antifreeze. If I still have doubts after this I'll start looking at mods in that TEAE article. Steve From mmichels at socal.rr.com Thu Aug 28 11:36:09 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:36:09 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? References: <000001c90927$413fbb00$84b11840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <004f01c90934$8f124b60$6401a8c0@delldimension> Ron, this is really helpful. For what it's worth my '66 (B382002410LRXFE) has engine date code B19KC and it is Ford dark blue. I cannot confirm that it's original paint, but it sure looks like it. ----- Original Message ----- From: " Ron Fraser" To: "'Scott Hutchinson'" ; "'Duke Samouce'" ; Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? > Here is a list of engine date codes; > > Tiger Engine Order Date codes > > 1 T15KL 8-15-63 > 2 E7KL 11-7-63 > 3 G13KA 1-13-64 > 4 L2KA 3-2-64 > 5 A12KA 4-12-64 > 6 A27KA 4-27-64 > 7 K22KA 6-22-64 > 8 T12KA 8-12-64 > 9 S6KA 10-6-64 > 10 S27KA 10-27-64 > 11 F21KA 12-21-64 > 12 B19KC 2-19-65 > 13 A11KK 4-11-66 > 14 A22KK 4-22-66 > > My engine's date code is F21KA; this block and all previous engines should > be Black according to TBON. > > Everyone should just check and we will see if there are any discrepancies. > > The real question should be what color is your F21KA or B19KC block. > These > date codes span the serial numbers in question. > > B19KC blocks are first listed in TBON around B382000164 and F21KA blocks > extent to around B3820001058. > > Let the poll begin. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Hutchinson [mailto:shutchin at netjets.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:18 AM > To: rfraser at bluefrog.com; Duke Samouce; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? > > > > > That's a great idea... > > I'll have to see if I have the data written down. > > > > > > When it come to the Tiger production; nothing is absolute. > > Maybe the key here is to correlate engine color to the engine number and > date code. > > I would think that engine lots would be the same color. > > Ron Fraser > > > > > * ******** > This message contains information which may be confidential and > privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, > please > advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 > 7:29 AM > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 11:38:04 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:38:04 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Re How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> References: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> Message-ID: <39a841b0808281038s29ad3558y5719bf416a0bb68e@mail.gmail.com> i use Holts Rad Flush - its a 2 part flush - not sure if its available in the US though. On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 6:15 PM, wrote: > Thanks all for the help. My mistake so far... > > I reported the fan as stock 4 blade. Apparently I don't count as well as I once did It is 5 blade. > > I'll start this weekend by making certain that what I do have in place is working properly by flushing the radiator and perhaps replacing the thermostat. It's been a long long time since I did any of my own car work and I've never done it on a Tiger. > > > I don't know what laser thermometers cost but I'll try to find or buy one. > > First question, are Tigers metric ? > > One suggestion I got was "flush and back flush" I don't understand back flush ? > I do understand running water through from the radiator end with the heater on. > > The shop manual suggested one of "several" brands of radiator cleaners. Any suggestions on a modern brand ? > > I also see no indication of how full the overflow tank should be. Where do I fill it > to ? > > I've been told water is a better coolant than anitfreeze and since its only been below 32 degrees here once in 20 years I'll probably go 90/10 mixture. The car came from Oklahoma and may be running much more antifreeze. > > If I still have doubts after this I'll start looking at mods in that TEAE article. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From awtiger at cox.net Thu Aug 28 11:44:54 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:44:54 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: <000001c90927$413fbb00$84b11840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <20080828134454.8B5OF.183004.imail@eastrmwml09> Ron, That's great info!! Let me log my car in... B382001600LRXFE - B19KC block - blue Andy Walker Edmond, OK ---- Ron Fraser wrote: > Here is a list of engine date codes; > > Tiger Engine Order Date codes > > 1 T15KL 8-15-63 > 2 E7KL 11-7-63 > 3 G13KA 1-13-64 > 4 L2KA 3-2-64 > 5 A12KA 4-12-64 > 6 A27KA 4-27-64 > 7 K22KA 6-22-64 > 8 T12KA 8-12-64 > 9 S6KA 10-6-64 > 10 S27KA 10-27-64 > 11 F21KA 12-21-64 > 12 B19KC 2-19-65 > 13 A11KK 4-11-66 > 14 A22KK 4-22-66 > > My engine's date code is F21KA; this block and all previous engines should > be Black according to TBON. > > Everyone should just check and we will see if there are any discrepancies. > > The real question should be what color is your F21KA or B19KC block. These > date codes span the serial numbers in question. > > B19KC blocks are first listed in TBON around B382000164 and F21KA blocks > extent to around B3820001058. > > Let the poll begin. > > Ron Fraser > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Hutchinson [mailto:shutchin at netjets.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:18 AM > To: rfraser at bluefrog.com; Duke Samouce; tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? > > > > > That's a great idea... > > I'll have to see if I have the data written down. > > > > > > When it come to the Tiger production; nothing is absolute. > > Maybe the key here is to correlate engine color to the engine number and > date code. > > I would think that engine lots would be the same color. > > Ron Fraser > > > > > * ******** > This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. > Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), > you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information > contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please > advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 > 7:29 AM > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as awtiger at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 11:45:55 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:45:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? In-Reply-To: <004f01c90934$8f124b60$6401a8c0@delldimension> Message-ID: <000101c90935$ee961660$84b11840@ronpc1> Mike Excellent!! I think this is the only way to examine this detail, by engine date code. The Jensen Factory mixed the way sub assemblies and bodies were stored and then brought together to a point where it mostly baffles us who are accustomed to the nearly linear assembly lines in the USA. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: Mike Michels [mailto:mmichels at socal.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:36 PM To: rfraser at bluefrog.com; 'Scott Hutchinson'; 'Duke Samouce'; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] What is the "correct" engine color? Ron, this is really helpful. For what it's worth my '66 (B382002410LRXFE) has engine date code B19KC and it is Ford dark blue. I cannot confirm that it's original paint, but it sure looks like it. - From TIGEROOTES at aol.com Thu Aug 28 11:46:38 2008 From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:46:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 366 Message-ID: tigers-request at autox.team.net writes: > Could you guys please take this private. I am getting tired of deleting 20 > emails a day that have nothing to do with the Tiger. > > Thanks, Duke Listers, On the Hillman list when we send off topic messages, we include OT in the subject line... Jim Leach Pacific Tiger Club Seattle ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From mrlau at charter.net Thu Aug 28 11:53:23 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:53:23 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Re How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> Message-ID: <20080828175327.KHJO10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Most if not all items on a Tiger are American thread. They have a penchant for making things with a fine thread instead of course like the American manufacturers usually do but the socket sizes are in inches. I think Harbor freight has a laser thermometer for about 50 bucks but I have no idea how good they are. It is possible to back flush your radiator by taking one of the threaded plugs out of the block and either holding a hose up to it with the radiator cap off or connecting it with fittings if you have room. Get ready to get wet if you don't have fittings though. If you think your block is fine, just take off the lower hose and make water go through backwards,(bottom to top). If you run mostly water in your radiator the boiling temperature of the mix goes down and might make it boil more easily. As you know water is 212 but I think 50 50 is about 245 degrees. What ever you put in there make sure that it can't rust. I had a '58 Ford that I bought in Miami years ago and pure water was run in it and it had to be flushed like I mentioned above every couple of months and was a royal pain. You could see large flakes of rust when you looked through the radiator cap setting on top of the tubes. I remember hearing that 50 50 was a better coolant than water so a little checking on that point might be in order because I don't know for sure which is correct. I am sure that anti-freeze companies would claim that the more of their product the better but it may not be true. I would suggest that you dive in and work on your Tiger. Start with simple stuff like you are doing and remember that it doesn't have to be right back on the road like your daily driver and cars from that era are a lot simpler to work on than now. You will be much happier with each repair you do on your own -- Bill -- Thanks all for the help. My mistake so far... I reported the fan as stock 4 blade. Apparently I don't count as well as I once did It is 5 blade. I'll start this weekend by making certain that what I do have in place is working properly by flushing the radiator and perhaps replacing the thermostat. It's been a long long time since I did any of my own car work and I've never done it on a Tiger. I don't know what laser thermometers cost but I'll try to find or buy one. First question, are Tigers metric ? One suggestion I got was "flush and back flush" I don't understand back flush ? I do understand running water through from the radiator end with the heater on. The shop manual suggested one of "several" brands of radiator cleaners. Any suggestions on a modern brand ? I also see no indication of how full the overflow tank should be. Where do I fill it to ? I've been told water is a better coolant than anitfreeze and since its only been below 32 degrees here once in 20 years I'll probably go 90/10 mixture. The car came from Oklahoma and may be running much more antifreeze. If I still have doubts after this I'll start looking at mods in that TEAE article. From mark.rense at ge.com Thu Aug 28 12:05:14 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:05:14 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation In-Reply-To: <20080828175327.KHJO10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> <20080828175327.KHJO10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: And now for something complete ON topic: I am almost done with the paint work on B382001465 and am starting the interior. The current interior is the thinnest, cheesiest POS carpeting I have ever seen, no doubt Vicky Brit stuff, plus there is no insulation at all. Please remind me what is the ceramic paint-on insulation some have used on the floors and firewall? I Googled but could not find a reference. What is your experience with application? How well does it work? Also, if any of you have had experience with products like Thermo-Tec or Koolmat I would like to know yea or nea. Thanks, Bugz From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 12:18:50 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:18:50 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c9093a$870d2ab0$b2911840@ronpc1> Bugz The ceramic paint on insulation is probably Lizard Skin (sp?) There maybe some other similar product too? Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:05 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation And now for something complete ON topic: I am almost done with the paint work on B382001465 and am starting the interior. The current interior is the thinnest, cheesiest POS carpeting I have ever seen, no doubt Vicky Brit stuff, plus there is no insulation at all. Please remind me what is the ceramic paint-on insulation some have used on the floors and firewall? I Googled but could not find a reference. What is your experience with application? How well does it work? Also, if any of you have had experience with products like Thermo-Tec or Koolmat I would like to know yea or nea. Thanks, Bugz You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From billlawrence at hotmail.com Thu Aug 28 12:25:50 2008 From: billlawrence at hotmail.com (Bill Lawrence) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:25:50 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] tiger:: sunbeam:: lbc:: bits pick up in Fort Wayne this weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello fellow Tiger enthusiasts: I was assisting my mother pack up her place in Ft. Wayne, Indiana and found a few tiger/sunbeam/lbc bits in the garage. She is having a moving sale this weekend and I found some original stock steel rims (4), after-market rear quarter panel sheet metal (the lower bits have were removed to repair rust damage on my car), an original period after-market am radio (to quote the elder Lawrence, rip 1995, "Why have that tinny thing blaring away, when I can listen to that V8?") , driver + passenger side sill plates (orig), and a sweet after-market shiny chrome plated trunk mount luggage rack (good shape/never intalled for obvious reasons). I am sure if you give her a call and offer to pick up these items, she would help you carry them to your vehicle. Please do not ask her to ship, she is fairly busy with ending this page and moving on to the next and probably would let you know as much. If you are interested in stopping by, please contact me offline. Ft. Wayne is 30 miles south of Auburn for those who are interested in seeing this weekend's Auburn-Cord-Dusenburg festival and Kruse Auction this is a good excuse to visit Northeast Indiana. warm regards, Bill Lawrence B9473246LRX Fort Lauderdale, FL _________________________________________________________________ Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with Windows.. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/ From prbreuhan at hotmail.com Thu Aug 28 12:32:11 2008 From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:32:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation In-Reply-To: References: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> <20080828175327.KHJO10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: Bugz, You are thinking LizardSkin Ceramic coating. My car isn't on the road so I can't comment on effectiveness. My theory of avoiding stick down stuff (Thermo-Tec or Koolmat) was that I recall a college friend who never remembered (too many drinkies) to put his convertible top up, he would often have to pull the carpet, and floor plugs out to let things air out. And that seemed like a breeding ground for rust here in the Midwest to me. You can read my take on LS here... http://www.breuhan.com/sunbeam/lizardskin/index.html My website is 6 months out of date, I have since painted over the LizardSkin, a small bit of what that looks like can be seen here... http://www.breuhan.com/sunbeam/enginecompart/3.jpg (Look at the trunk floor and spare tire well) And a shot that shows some of the paint interior firewall... http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee348/daddytiger64/33460173.jpg I hope this helps you, feel free to ask me questions, Paul (I will not talk Guns, Religion, Politics or anything else) Breuhan > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:05:14 -0400> From: mark.rense at ge.com> To: tigers at autox.team.net> Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation> > And now for something complete ON topic:> > I am almost done with the paint work on B382001465 and am starting the> interior. The current interior is the thinnest, cheesiest POS carpeting> I have ever seen, no doubt Vicky Brit stuff, plus there is no insulation> at all.> > Please remind me what is the ceramic paint-on insulation some have used> on the floors and firewall? I Googled but could not find a reference.> What is your experience with application? How well does it work?> > Also, if any of you have had experience with products like Thermo-Tec or> Koolmat I would like to know yea or nea.> > Thanks, Bugz _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 From dave at munroe.ca Thu Aug 28 13:19:53 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:19:53 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation In-Reply-To: References: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> <20080828175327.KHJO10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <59484CF372E84BE28421A2B6B3291702@DavePC> Paul; I'm sure you don't need to hear this from me, but wow! you are doing a real nice job on your car. I particularly like your dash and gauge layout, with the voltmeter replacing the ammeter, and the addition of the vacuum gauge. Might I ask what the story is on your non-wooden dash material ( aluminum? stainless?)? Is your car already so non-stock that you feel free to install other materials you like better? Lovely... Dave From Rollright at aol.com Thu Aug 28 13:55:52 2008 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:55:52 EDT Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut Message-ID: Hello, Still trying to debug my rebuilt 260 with new LAT 1 option. It continues to run really really hot, even with a Derale puller fan and an electric pusher. Real hot: like 240-250 indicated on a warm day, slightly less on a cooler one. I remember someone mentioning the internal spring that prevents a hose from getting sucked closed. If you would, which hose is it? I sure hope it is this and not something much more "deadly" Thanks, Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From mark.rense at ge.com Thu Aug 28 14:23:31 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:23:31 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, It's in your lower radiator hose, a quick squeeze of the hose should confirm whether you have on of these. At higher RPM, the hose can collapse from the water pump suction if there's no spring. -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rollright at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:56 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut Hello, Still trying to debug my rebuilt 260 with new LAT 1 option. It continues to run really really hot, even with a Derale puller fan and an electric pusher. Real hot: like 240-250 indicated on a warm day, slightly less on a cooler one. I remember someone mentioning the internal spring that prevents a hose from getting sucked closed. If you would, which hose is it? I sure hope it is this and not something much more "deadly" Thanks, Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE From e.coiner at cox.net Thu Aug 28 14:24:42 2008 From: e.coiner at cox.net (e.coiner at cox.net) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:24:42 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080828162442.LDLQ6.9686.imail@fed1rmwml38> The spring goes inside the lower hose. Rev the engine and look at the lower hose. If the spring is missing, the hose will suck flat. If it really is running that hot I would expect the car to be boiling over whenever you shut off the engine. Get the infrared temp gun and point it at the thermostat housing and compare readings with your dash gauge. If you have a chrome Tstat housing, stick a piece of masking tape on and point the gun at that. Erich ---- Rollright at aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > Still trying to debug my rebuilt 260 with new LAT 1 option. > > It continues to run really really hot, even with a Derale puller fan and an > electric pusher. Real hot: like 240-250 indicated on a warm day, slightly > less on a cooler one. > > I remember someone mentioning the internal spring that prevents a hose from > getting sucked closed. > > If you would, which hose is it? I sure hope it is this and not something > much more "deadly" > > Thanks, > > Jim Armstrong > Mk 1A 382002083 > LRXFE > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as e.coiner at cox.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From cburruss at hiwaay.net Thu Aug 28 14:28:52 2008 From: cburruss at hiwaay.net (Jim & Carolyn Burruss) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:28:52 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Cute Tigers Message-ID: <7CE3798A35C944B89D73091A90FC2A04@retired> One evening many years ago when I was taking a teenage babysitter home, my Tiger came up in conversation. "Oh, you mean that dinky little red car?" she responded. Maybe "cute" isn't so bad . . . Jim Burruss From rfraser at bluefrog.com Thu Aug 28 14:28:51 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:28:51 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c9094c$b0b9c960$76b31840@ronpc1> Jim Lower radiator hose Warm the engine up then watch the radiator hose as you increase the rpm's If the hose collapses you have a problem but now you know where it is. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rollright at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:56 PM To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut Hello, Still trying to debug my rebuilt 260 with new LAT 1 option. It continues to run really really hot, even with a Derale puller fan and an electric pusher. Real hot: like 240-250 indicated on a warm day, slightly less on a cooler one. I remember someone mentioning the internal spring that prevents a hose from getting sucked closed. If you would, which hose is it? I sure hope it is this and not something much more "deadly" Thanks, Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1635 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:29 AM From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu Aug 28 14:34:49 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:34:49 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B70BE9.90009@SoCal.rr.com> Jim, It is the lower radiator hose that closes when the rubber is soft so that the water pump flow collapses it. Originally this hose had an internal spring to prevent collapse. With the attempt to make fewer stocking numbers the manufacturer's eliminated the spring, as hoses can be both upper and lower. Pep Boys carries a selection of hose springs to fit in, and they are not expensive. However the largest seems to be 3/4 inch. Some hoses have a built-in the rubber spring and look like the rubber is conforming to it. Find the ID of the hose (I forgot) and get a spring that fits in. Does not have to be a tight fit, however. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Rollright at aol.com wrote: > Hello, > > Still trying to debug my rebuilt 260 with new LAT 1 option. > > It continues to run really really hot, even with a Derale puller fan and an > electric pusher. Real hot: like 240-250 indicated on a warm day, slightly > less on a cooler one. > > I remember someone mentioning the internal spring that prevents a hose from > getting sucked closed. > > If you would, which hose is it? I sure hope it is this and not something > much more "deadly" > > Thanks, > > Jim Armstrong > Mk 1A 382002083 > LRXFE From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu Aug 28 14:45:22 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:45:22 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B70E62.9000605@SoCal.rr.com> Jim, Please post the List with the results of your search for springs and hoses. Include part number(s) and cost. I do recommend a new hose, as well, as it is apparently "soft". Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Rollright at aol.com wrote: > Perfect Steve > > There is a Pep Boys not 4 miles from here; a recent addition to New > England's car part stores. > > Thanks for your help! > > Jim Armstrong From prbreuhan at hotmail.com Thu Aug 28 14:56:43 2008 From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:56:43 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation...Aluminum Dash In-Reply-To: <59484CF372E84BE28421A2B6B3291702@DavePC> References: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> <20080828175327.KHJO10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> <59484CF372E84BE28421A2B6B3291702@DavePC> Message-ID: Dave, Thanks. I refaced the gauges myself to match the stock Jaeger Instruments. The voltmeter is new and made by Sun, the clock is also new and is an Autometer, and the vac gauge was (a $5 Ebay purchase) made by AC Delco in the 60s. I have a 7K Alpine tachometer converted for 8 cylinder use, currently being redone (in pieces on my desk) which will replace the stock Tiger unit. The dash story is... I bought a wood dash from guy who said it was re-veneered and all it needed was to be stained (trust me, he said). The veneer was real cheap looking with a seam running down the middle lengthwise, and was lifting. It was a piece of crap (the back side is splitting apart also) but restorable with enough effort. I figure it will be a several years before I get around to doing the exterior bodywork and paint, so why redo the wood dash and put it in the car if the rest of the interior will not be installed? To make a long story short...I am going with the "boy racer look" for the next 3 or 4 years...minimal interior (no carpet, no dash pad, no door panels)...Aluminum dash...Motolita wheel...roll bar...racing seat belts...etc... Did you see my custom racing seat covers? They should cut a few seconds off my lap/quarter mile times...LOL http://www.breuhan.com/sunbeam/seatcovers.jpg The dash is Aluminum bought from a local metal supermarket, the gauge positions are pretty close to stock in postion. After cutting out all my holes I took a Scotchbrite pad and tried to rub up and down in a vertical direction. Then I sprayed a clear coat over the top, the clear does tone down the aluminum and gives a bit of a stainless look. I thought about "engine turning" the whole thing, but I don't have the time to learn that skill since I hope to drive my Tiger to the TEAE United in October. An aluminum dash is the type of modification that's not permanent, so that works for me at this point in time. Paul > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:19:53 -0300> From: dave at munroe.ca> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Interior Insulation> To: prbreuhan at hotmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net> > Paul;> > I'm sure you don't need to hear this from me, but wow! you are doing a real > nice job on your car.> > I particularly like your dash and gauge layout, with the voltmeter replacing > the ammeter, and the addition of the vacuum gauge.> > Might I ask what the story is on your non-wooden dash material ( aluminum? > stainless?)? Is your car already so non-stock that you> feel free to install other materials you like better?> > Lovely...> > Dave _________________________________________________________________ Be the filmmaker you always wanted to belearn how to burn a DVD with Windows.. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588797/direct/01/ From awtiger at cox.net Thu Aug 28 14:58:30 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:58:30 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] End of an era In-Reply-To: <000001c90927$413fbb00$84b11840@ronpc1> Message-ID: <20080828165830.L9C29.184442.imail@eastrmwml09> I don't know how many of you guys were fans and admirers, but it is with great sorrow that I must pass along some information that I just received. Phil Hill, the first American F1 champion (1961) has passed away due to complications from Parkinson's Disease. I just thought you all might like to know. Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From Rollright at aol.com Thu Aug 28 15:09:20 2008 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:09:20 EDT Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers Message-ID: Listers, Which should I buy to check out the Tiger's heat problems. (hint: all else equal, cheaper is better) Harbor Freight items ITEM 93984-5VGA 19.95 ITEM 96451-1VGA 39.95 Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From thorlp at hotmail.com Thu Aug 28 15:09:55 2008 From: thorlp at hotmail.com (stan gorski) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:09:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation In-Reply-To: References: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> <20080828175327.KHJO10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: Lizard Skin, Eastwood sells it or try Ebay. There are 2 types 1 for heat & sound 1 for sound only. ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:05:14 -0400 > From: mark.rense at ge.com > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation > > And now for something complete ON topic: > > I am almost done with the paint work on B382001465 and am starting the > interior. The current interior is the thinnest, cheesiest POS carpeting > I have ever seen, no doubt Vicky Brit stuff, plus there is no insulation > at all. > > Please remind me what is the ceramic paint-on insulation some have used > on the floors and firewall? I Googled but could not find a reference. > What is your experience with application? How well does it work? > > Also, if any of you have had experience with products like Thermo-Tec or > Koolmat I would like to know yea or nea. > > Thanks, Bugz > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as thorlp at hotmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. From harryb at elams.org Thu Aug 28 16:21:09 2008 From: harryb at elams.org (Harry B. Elam) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:21:09 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Front end alignment Message-ID: <48B724D5.6070801@elams.org> I have replaced the worrisome lower "A" arm supports with new ones from Doug Jennings. The old ones seems OK but after 200K miles, it seemed prudent. I have had the suspension supports required by our "Shop Manual" produced in steel up front and wood aft, as suggested. Then I had the front suspension aligned exactly as our manual suggested. The mechanic reported that it was difficult to get everything within "specs." The car drives great and I am pleased but I wonder what everyone else is doing. Suggestions appreciated. BTW- the alignment pieces are available for loan if someone wants to try my process. Harry Elam B382000471 From jteepen at usatoday.com Thu Aug 28 16:01:12 2008 From: jteepen at usatoday.com (Teepen, Jere) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:01:12 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250D27943@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Jim: I do not have the particulars, but I purchased a "universal fit" flexible radiator hose in the same diameter and length as the lower Tiger hose and purloined the spring from there. It slid into the formed Tiger hose with no problem. I do not know if I was having a problem with the hose collapsing, I installed it because it is a good idea to have one in there. Good luck, Jere -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rollright at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:56 PM To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut Hello, Still trying to debug my rebuilt 260 with new LAT 1 option. It continues to run really really hot, even with a Derale puller fan and an electric pusher. Real hot: like 240-250 indicated on a warm day, slightly less on a cooler one. I remember someone mentioning the internal spring that prevents a hose from getting sucked closed. If you would, which hose is it? I sure hope it is this and not something much more "deadly" Thanks, Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) You are subscribed as jteepen at usatoday.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 16:04:21 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:04:21 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Front end alignment In-Reply-To: <48B724D5.6070801@elams.org> References: <48B724D5.6070801@elams.org> Message-ID: <39a841b0808281504r4a73dd18sd7c3cf722bbbac01@mail.gmail.com> After spending 12 hours in an alignment shop with a spotty 20 year old cursing my car I decided to do it myself. Takes time but you get good results. On 8/28/08, Harry B. Elam wrote: > I have replaced the worrisome lower "A" arm supports with new ones from > Doug Jennings. The old ones seems OK but after 200K miles, it seemed > prudent. I have had the suspension supports required by our "Shop > Manual" produced in steel up front and wood aft, as suggested. Then I > had the front suspension aligned exactly as our manual suggested. The > mechanic reported that it was difficult to get everything within > "specs." The car drives great and I am pleased but I wonder what > everyone else is doing. Suggestions appreciated. BTW- the alignment > pieces are available for loan if someone wants to try my process. > > Harry Elam > B382000471 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From itswonderful at comcast.net Thu Aug 28 16:06:44 2008 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:06:44 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation In-Reply-To: References: <32063711.204911219943739440.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web24-z02><20080828175327.KHJO10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <42252DB4801F406D9D5F1EB1BDCF427D@FPMengineering> I've used Dynamat in doors and body panels to help make the panels stiffer and heavier for sound deadening purposes. In my opinion the panels, and doors especially, can feel and sound better, or more substantial, when treated with a heavy undercoat. On the floor of my Tiger I used a jute type material similar to the original. I am suspicious that jute may not be the preferable material for this application. I was pretty happy with the finished product. There were lots of individually cut pieces to fit in the floor pressing patterns. This gave a smooth and tight looking floor after the carpet was installed. Frank > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd) > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:05 AM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Interior Insulation > > And now for something complete ON topic: > > I am almost done with the paint work on B382001465 and am starting the > interior. The current interior is the thinnest, cheesiest POS carpeting > I have ever seen, no doubt Vicky Brit stuff, plus there is no insulation > at all. > > Please remind me what is the ceramic paint-on insulation some have used > on the floors and firewall? I Googled but could not find a reference. > What is your experience with application? How well does it work? > > Also, if any of you have had experience with products like Thermo-Tec or > Koolmat I would like to know yea or nea. > > Thanks, Bugz From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 28 16:08:35 2008 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:08:35 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut Message-ID: <000c01c9095a$9e1e1cd0$6401a8c0@your03667082de> "It continues to run really really hot, even with a Derale puller fan and an electric pusher. Real hot: like 240-250 indicated on a warm day, slightly less on a cooler one." You really need to use a laser temp gauge and find out if your car is reaching 240 - 250. My car has a 260, original radiator, 4 blade fan, Edelbrock 289 manifold and doesn't overheat in Michigan summer weather. Today its clody and cooler and I took my car on the freeway for a short hop. The temp went slightly over 170 on the temp gauge. I checked it with the laser temp sensor and it read 177 at the water temp sensor in the manifold. So my gauge seems accurate. Check NAPA parts for the laser sensor. Mine came from there and cost less than $45. Jeff From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Thu Aug 28 16:09:03 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:09:03 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B721FF.1000009@SoCal.rr.com> Jim, and Tigers "YGWYPF" "You Gets What You Pays For" ;-) The 96451-1VGA at $40, looks at least twice the "value" as the 93984-5VGA, but the later uses lithium batteries vs 9 V (less expensive replacement). I've never had to use one, as the dash gauge works just fine for water temp, vs hot spots elsewhere. Voltage regulators and sender replacements, are available. BTW, there is a 93983-4VGA for $12.99 Product manuals are down-loadable. Harbor Freight Link "WYSISWYG" "What You Sees is What You Gets" :-) Contents of shopping basket: To change the quantity of any item, click on the quantity (1) then change. Qty Item Description Price Amount Delete 1 93983-4VGA NON-CONTACT POCKET THERMOMETER 12.99 1 93984-5VGA Infrared Thermometer 19.99 1 96451-1VGA Non-Contact Laser Thermometer 39.99 ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Rollright at aol.com wrote: > Listers, > > Which should I buy to check out the Tiger's heat problems. (hint: all else > equal, cheaper is better) > > Harbor Freight items > > ITEM 93984-5VGA 19.95 > > ITEM 96451-1VGA 39.95 > > Jim Armstrong > Mk 1A 382002083 > LRXFE From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu Aug 28 16:31:37 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:31:37 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Front end alignment Message-ID: There are a number of things, including Tom Hall's tie rod ends (finer thread, allows much more precision in setting toe), that can be done to make the process cleaner. I'd also suggest much more static camber than the manual specs...like in the -1.5 range. Given effective zero toe to 1/16" toe in, it won't hurt tire wear too badly, but it certainly will help as a band aid for the very poor camber curve...first time you turn in to a corner in anger, you'll be sure to have a bigger smile. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From MWood24020 at aol.com Thu Aug 28 16:58:21 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:58:21 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Front end alignment Message-ID: In a message dated 8/28/2008 3:57:13 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, MWood24020 at aol.com writes: There are a number of things, including Tom Hall's tie rod ends (finer thread, allows much more precision in setting toe), that can be done to make the process cleaner. Oops, I forgot one of the key benefit to Tom's parts...you can adjust toe without busting loose the rod end!! Doh!! **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From atwittsend at verizon.net Thu Aug 28 17:47:30 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:47:30 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers References: Message-ID: <004001c90968$6f6923e0$0302a8c0@student2> I'm not sure if Harbor Freight has regional sales or not (I live about 10 miles away from their US warehouse in Camarillo), but they have the lot # 93983 digital thermometer on sale for $7.99 (normally $19.99). The flier I have (most stores have them when you come in the door) has a coupon and a limit if three. My son uses them on his R/C cars to measure engine temp. One day I had him flash it on my radiator and the reading was in the 180 degree range which seemed right. Tom [demime found a multipart/alternative section which it tried to parse but could not find any section which it could render. Please send plain text.] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.12/1640 - Release Date: 8/28/2008 6:58 PM From DJoh797014 at aol.com Thu Aug 28 18:15:27 2008 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:15:27 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Re How hot is hot ? Message-ID: Steve With very few exceptions, Nothing on the Tiger is metric. That's what made England, England. Use metrics like the bloody French. I should say not. On MK IA's and II, there is a small brass strip inside the header tank that says 'Fill ro here or such.' I don't know if MK I's had that. 100 % water will give the best cooling, but does not protect and freezing, lubricate the water pump, protect against galvanatic reaction between dissimilar metals (Iron block, aluminum water pump, etc). Most agree 50-50 mix is best. anything more actually degrades the cooling. If you are going to run a 10-90 mixture, be sure and add water pump lubricant. As I have said in other replies, the less silicon the better. The silicates form an insoluble perpatricate by reacting the minerals in the water + heat. The Tiger's heating issues have never been with the coolant. Its air flow or lack of it that's the problem. Dave In a message dated 8/28/2008 12:05:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, sralsten at ca.rr.com writes: Thanks all for the help. My mistake so far... I reported the fan as stock 4 blade. Apparently I don't count as well as I once did It is 5 blade. I'll start this weekend by making certain that what I do have in place is working properly by flushing the radiator and perhaps replacing the thermostat. It's been a long long time since I did any of my own car work and I've never done it on a Tiger. I don't know what laser thermometers cost but I'll try to find or buy one. First question, are Tigers metric ? One suggestion I got was "flush and back flush" I don't understand back flush ? I do understand running water through from the radiator end with the heater on. The shop manual suggested one of "several" brands of radiator cleaners. Any suggestions on a modern brand ? I also see no indication of how full the overflow tank should be. Where do I fill it to ? I've been told water is a better coolant than anitfreeze and since its only been below 32 degrees here once in 20 years I'll probably go 90/10 mixture. The car came from Oklahoma and may be running much more antifreeze. If I still have doubts after this I'll start looking at mods in that TEAE article. Steve You are subscribed as djoh797014 at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From Drmoonstone at aol.com Thu Aug 28 18:17:46 2008 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:17:46 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers and lack of discussion Message-ID: AND A GOV'T SPONSERED REPORT IN WHICH THE PRIMARY RESEARCHER HAS BEEN INSTRUCTED THAT THE THE OUTCOME COMES BEFORE THE RESEARCH....NOW THAT'S THE JOKE! TRY STEVEN HOLLBROOKS RESEARCH BASED ON ACTUAL RAW DATA THAT HASN'T BEEN MANIPULATED BY ANYONE. BOTTOM LINE CONFISCATE MY GUNS....KILL ME FIRST CRUSH MY TIGER...KILL ME FIRST ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net Thu Aug 28 18:57:14 2008 From: sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net (David Sosna) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:57:14 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] End of an era In-Reply-To: <20080828165830.L9C29.184442.imail@eastrmwml09> References: <20080828165830.L9C29.184442.imail@eastrmwml09> Message-ID: <48B7496A.6000005@cox.net> Thank you, Andy. I didn't know. A few years back, I was at the Coronado Vintage Races in San Diego--can't remember if I still had my Tiger (mandatory Tiger content--grin). I was closely examining an Alta racer and when I looked up, the other guy standing by the car and having a conversation with it's owner was--Phil Hill. I decided that, though he was a public figure, rather than pester him, I'd just let him enjoy being a car guy, so I finished looking at the Alta and wandered off to check on the Ferrari down the way. I'd forgotten that until I saw your post. That was a pretty good day, so thanks for reminding me of it. Best Regards David Sosna awtiger at cox.net wrote: > I don't know how many of you guys were fans and admirers, but it is with great sorrow that I must pass along some information that I just received. Phil Hill, the first American F1 champion (1961) has passed away due to complications from Parkinson's Disease. I just thought you all might like to know. > > Andy Walker > Edmond, OK > B382001600LRXFE > B9006857LRX From wseay at embarqmail.com Thu Aug 28 19:30:11 2008 From: wseay at embarqmail.com (Will Seay) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:30:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Cheap Air Cleaner References: Message-ID: I've been told that a circular air cleaner made for late '60's to early '70's Chevy trucks can be reshaped into an oval and used for a Tiger air cleaner. Anybody ever heard of this? Anybody have a part number or Chevy year model for it? - Will B382001570 ____________________________ Will Seay wseay at embarqmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From todbrown at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 28 19:47:32 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:47:32 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Message-ID: <48B75534.20404@roadrunner.com> You can also get an IR thermometer at Radio Shack. Not sure what a laser thermometer is. If you use mostly water in the cooling system, make sure you add a rust inhibitor and a lubricant for the water pump. I think Prestone and others makes such an additive. Not too familiar with this problem here in Maine. The problem, as I understand it, with the shroud and the open area below the radiator in the engine compartment is that, when stationary, it allows warm air which has passed through the radiator to exit and be sucked back through the radiator again. Obviously, you want cool air from outside to pass through the radiator, not warm air. Blocking the pathway that allows the warm air to recirculate improves the situation. Once the car starts moving, the circulation problem disappears, which is why most Tigers with well-functioning cooling systems do not have a problem at speed. Tigers are not metric. Be happy they are not Whitworth, either. Tod B382002384LRXFE B19KC Old Ford Blue From jim at island.net Thu Aug 28 20:05:19 2008 From: jim at island.net (Jim) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:05:19 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Cheap Air Cleaner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <06f601c9097b$b0627640$4101a8c0@JIMPC> I bought an air cleaner from Rick at S.S. and it appeared to be a round air cleaner that was 'formed' into an oval one... there were 4 'grip' marks and it just didn't fit quite right... I ended up buying a K&N (still available) and that will be the last one I should ever have to buy...!! Even @ $40 I considered it a good buy... Jim B382000446 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Will Seay Sent: August 28, 2008 6:30 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Cheap Air Cleaner I've been told that a circular air cleaner made for late '60's to early '70's Chevy trucks can be reshaped into an oval and used for a Tiger air cleaner. Anybody ever heard of this? Anybody have a part number or Chevy year model for it? - Will B382001570 ____________________________ Will Seay wseay at embarqmail.com ----- Original Message ----- You are subscribed as jim at island.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From mmichels at socal.rr.com Thu Aug 28 22:42:05 2008 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:42:05 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut References: <9FF002B4A98E0F4FB752C81A06F004E97250D27943@ENT-MOCEXMB03.us.ad.gannett.com> Message-ID: <00ac01c90991$970e8970$6401a8c0@delldimension> If you have trouble finding a spring, National Parts Depot sells one for Mustang lower hoses. It's probably longer than needed but can be cut down. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teepen, Jere" To: ; Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut > Jim: > > I do not have the particulars, but I purchased a "universal fit" flexible > radiator hose in the same diameter and length as the lower Tiger hose and > purloined the spring from there. It slid into the formed Tiger hose with > no > problem. I do not know if I was having a problem with the hose > collapsing, I > installed it because it is a good idea to have one in there. > > Good luck, > > Jere > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+jteepen=usatoday.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Rollright at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:56 PM > To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Tigers] radiator hose sucking shut > > Hello, > > Still trying to debug my rebuilt 260 with new LAT 1 option. > > It continues to run really really hot, even with a Derale puller fan and > an > electric pusher. Real hot: like 240-250 indicated on a warm day, slightly > less on a cooler one. > > I remember someone mentioning the internal spring that prevents a hose > from > getting sucked closed. > > If you would, which hose is it? I sure hope it is this and not something > much > more "deadly" > > Thanks, > > Jim Armstrong > Mk 1A 382002083 > LRXFE > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your > travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > You are subscribed as jteepen at usatoday.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From bobbridgeford at msn.com Fri Aug 29 00:06:59 2008 From: bobbridgeford at msn.com (Robert Bridgeford) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:06:59 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: <48B75534.20404@roadrunner.com> References: <48B75534.20404@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: I have had good luck reducing cooling system temperatures in my XKE, which is also" temperature challenged" with Redline Water Wetter. When run with straight water, it brought temps down 10-15 degrees. See this link for some test data: www.turbomagazine.com/features/0703_turp_cooling_system_additives/index.html I've also read a research paper (although some time ago and I've forgotten the reference) that said that the ideal operating temperature for longevity for Ford small blocks was 210 degrees. Although not so good for horsepower, it does maximize the oil film and distribution... perhaps one of the more engineering connected Tiger folks out there remembers more about this study. Keep driving, Bob in Sisters Bob Bridgeford541 549 9539Sisters OR 97759 ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:47:32 -0400 > From: todbrown at roadrunner.com > To: tigers at autox.team.net; sralsten at ca.rr.com > Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? > > You can also get an IR thermometer at Radio Shack. Not sure what a > laser thermometer is. > If you use mostly water in the cooling system, make sure you add a > rust inhibitor and a lubricant for the water pump. I think Prestone > and others makes such an additive. Not too familiar with this problem > here in Maine. > The problem, as I understand it, with the shroud and the open area > below the radiator in the engine compartment is that, when stationary, > it allows warm air which has passed through the radiator to exit and > be sucked back through the radiator again. Obviously, you want cool > air from outside to pass through the radiator, not warm air. Blocking > the pathway that allows the warm air to recirculate improves the > situation. Once the car starts moving, the circulation problem > disappears, which is why most Tigers with well-functioning cooling > systems do not have a problem at speed. > Tigers are not metric. Be happy they are not Whitworth, either. > Tod > B382002384LRXFE > B19KC Old Ford Blue > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as bobbridgeford at msn.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From awtiger at cox.net Fri Aug 29 08:09:25 2008 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:09:25 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot (further discussion) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080829100925.W3X3R.188792.imail@eastrmwml09> We've had the "Water Wetter" discussion on this forum before and, once again, I'll register my opinion. First of all, I respect Robert's opinion and experiences, but I must say that mine differ. I have run it in both my Tiger and my vintage racing Alpine at various times with absolutely no change in temperature. My experience tells me it's a waste of money. It's much more important to make sure you have a clean, healthy cooling system. For my money, Water Wetter is not a magic fix. As someone mentioned in a recent e-mail on the cooling subject, air flow is the #1 problem with Tigers with regards to cooling. For those of us who want to retain the stock appearance and equipment, we just have to live with it. I, too, however remember having read that the optimal running temp for a small block Ford is 210 degrees. My Tiger seems very happy between 200 to 210 and never pukes when I shut it off. Is it just me or am I not alone in thinking that the temp gauge face design may have something to do with raising owner's stress levels about how hot is too hot? Most manufactures' cars run about half way up on the temp gauge and they call that the normal operating temp (the early Mustangs & Falcons come to mind...they have temp gauges but they are not gradiated). However, not only did Rootes see fit to assign gradiated numbers on the gauge to represent temp values, most of our cars usually run a little right of center, or on the higer side of what is universally accepted as the "normal operating temp" position. In reality, however, it's not abnormal for a Tiger and it is within the normal operating range of a small block Ford. So, are we really overheating? I wonder how we would all feel if the Tigers had a temperatute "idiot light" instead of a gauge. Would the overheating issue be as big a deal as it is to us? Just food for thought. I'm interested to read other opinions on this. Whadaya'll think??? Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From chris at cthompson.net Fri Aug 29 08:13:56 2008 From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:13:56 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: References: <48B75534.20404@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <48B80424.2080205@cthompson.net> I've also heard many times that our engines *like* 210 degrees. That's about where I run, and it's never bothered me. But I've never heard about temp negatively impacting HP, although I guess it makes sense. Anybody have more data on that? Not Tiger-related, but I've been battling overheating in my Lotus Formula Ford ever since I got it about 3 years ago. On a 90 degree day, I often will run up to 230 or 240 degrees. I would love to blame not getting the podium on my overheating problems ;-) Regards, Chris B382000331 > > I've also read a research paper (although some time ago and I've forgotten the > reference) that said that the ideal operating temperature for longevity for > Ford small blocks was 210 degrees. Although not so good for horsepower, it > does maximize the oil film and distribution... perhaps one of the more > engineering connected Tiger folks out there remembers more about this study. From mark.rense at ge.com Fri Aug 29 08:12:59 2008 From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:12:59 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When it comes to portable IR instrumentation, there is only one brand: Fluke. Their entry level Model 62 is far superior to the Chinese knock-offs from HF and not much more dinero. http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/fluke/thermometers/62.htm Another idea: if you have a decent multimeter (VOM to us old fogies) buy a contact thermocouple. They're less than $20. Bugz, who's secretly paranoid that Harbor Freight is really a Commie plot to make Americans into skinned-knuckled, bolt-rounding, incompetent mechanics through the use of crappy tools! :>) -----Original Message----- From: Rollright at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:09 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers Listers, Which should I buy to check out the Tiger's heat problems. (hint: all else equal, cheaper is better) Harbor Freight items ITEM 93984-5VGA 19.95 ITEM 96451-1VGA 39.95 Jim Armstrong Mk 1A 382002083 LRXFE From MWood24020 at aol.com Fri Aug 29 08:32:35 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:32:35 EDT Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/29/2008 7:14:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chris at cthompson.net writes: I've also heard many times that our engines *like* 210 degrees. That's about where I run, and it's never bothered me. But I've never heard about temp negatively impacting HP, although I guess it makes sense. Anybody have more data on that? Not Tiger-related, but I've been battling overheating in my Lotus Formula Ford ever since I got it about 3 years ago. On a 90 degree day, I often will run up to 230 or 240 degrees. I would love to blame not getting the podium on my overheating problems ;-) I know ambient temp will effect horsepower production, i.e. at 110 degrees an engine makes about 5% less power than at 75 degrees, but I've never heard of any motor (outside of two strokes, which is a different deal) losing power due to temps of moving parts. Maybe if tolerances were very loose or the engine was very tired, there could be cylinder pressure/sealing loss or if the engine was hot enough to break down the lubricity of the oil?? On the other hand, there can be good power gains derived from running oil temps to the higher end of their range, due to decrease in windage and roping. On your FF, given you are running a quality synthetic race oil, I wouldn't be concerned with 230-240 degree oil temps. On the FV car I ran a few years ago (before getting obsessed with autocross), we found nearly 4hp on the dyno when taking oil temp from 200 to 260, which is still in a range where break down is a non issue. That may not sound like much, but it was a near 6% pick up in power ;-) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From dave at munroe.ca Fri Aug 29 08:39:49 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:39:49 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Bugz; I like your sense of humor! Regarding IR Thermometers, I bought mine several years ago when I supercharged my MGB (I know, I know) and managed to overheat the engine regularly, along with blowing head gaskets, melting pistons, and fouling parking lots and driveways with greenpuke. Cheap knock-offs were not yet available, so I dropped $200 on one from 3M. It is not easy to get consistent readings with these things, particularly since you have to move fast if you want to get readings from multiple locations each time you measure. They are "distance sensitive", and many places (like the bottom rad outlet) are not easy to reach, so a correction calculation for distance needs to be made. Also, I have been discouraged to get readings sometimes 20 degrees +/- from spots as close as the brass temp sender body, and the area of the intake manifold it screws into. Moving on to the thermostat housing, the rad intake tube base just past the end of the hose, and the rad fins themselves, often generates readings 20 degrees apart. When you are trying see the results of a change like a different fan, or a spoiler on the bottom of the rad when you are looking for a 5 -10F change, its pretty frustrating. Consistency is a necessity when doing these evaluations, and I wonder if any of you who have one of these IR thermos have the same experience? ???? Dave From MWood24020 at aol.com Fri Aug 29 08:48:41 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:48:41 EDT Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Message-ID: Too early to think, evidently. The "230-240" range given was water, not oil, temp I would imagine...so, I've taken the discussion on a tangent, it appears, by going into oil temps :-) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From dave at munroe.ca Fri Aug 29 09:01:52 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:01:52 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One of the reasons why I worry about my engine overheating ( 225- 230F) is the noticeable drop in oil pressure. When you did your oil temp testing on horsepower gain, did your FF oil pressure drop with a rise in oil temp? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: ; ; Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? > Too early to think, evidently. The "230-240" range given was water, not > oil, > temp I would imagine...so, I've taken the discussion on a tangent, it > appears, by going into oil temps :-) > > > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your > travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as dave at munroe.ca > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From mrlau at charter.net Fri Aug 29 09:14:09 2008 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:14:09 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot (further discussion) In-Reply-To: <20080829100925.W3X3R.188792.imail@eastrmwml09> Message-ID: <20080829151413.FGF10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Andy, I think you have a real good point. Just because a 180 degree thermostat is in the system doesn't mean that the temperature is 180 at any given point. It just means that the stat opens at that temperature and someplace else in the system it could easily be 210 or so. Has anyone ever used a mechanical gauge to see how the temperature compares to the electrical gauge? My Alger had a stock Alpine radiator with no shroud and it didn't overheat except the time I was in a parade with it shortly after I finished the car and thought if I retarded the timing it would be better. Wrong idea and as soon as I advanced the timing it was fixed. I did however have the fan close to the radiator. I had a stewart warner guage and I remember 210 also. -- Bill -- We've had the "Water Wetter" discussion on this forum before and, once again, I'll register my opinion. First of all, I respect Robert's opinion and experiences, but I must say that mine differ. I have run it in both my Tiger and my vintage racing Alpine at various times with absolutely no change in temperature. My experience tells me it's a waste of money. It's much more important to make sure you have a clean, healthy cooling system. For my money, Water Wetter is not a magic fix. As someone mentioned in a recent e-mail on the cooling subject, air flow is the #1 problem with Tigers with regards to cooling. For those of us who want to retain the stock appearance and equipment, we just have to live with it. I, too, however remember having read that the optimal running temp for a small block Ford is 210 degrees. My Tiger seems very happy between 200 to 210 and never pukes when I shut it off. Is it just me or am I not alone in thinking that the temp gauge face design may have something to do with raising owner's stress levels about how hot is too hot? Most manufactures' cars run about half way up on the temp gauge and they call that the normal operating temp (the early Mustangs & Falcons come to mind...they have temp gauges but they are not gradiated). However, not only did Rootes see fit to assign gradiated numbers on the gauge to represent temp values, most of our cars usually run a little right of center, or on the higer side of what is universally accepted as the "normal operating temp" position. In reality, however, it's not abnormal for a Tiger and it is within the normal operating range of a small block Ford. So, are we really overheating? I wonder how we would all feel if the Tigers had a temperatute "idiot light" instead of a gauge. Would the overheating issue be as big a deal as it is to us? Just food for thought. I'm interested to read other opinions on this. Whadaya'll think??? Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From MWood24020 at aol.com Fri Aug 29 09:28:07 2008 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:28:07 EDT Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/29/2008 8:03:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dave at munroe.ca writes: One of the reasons why I worry about my engine overheating ( 225- 230F) is the noticeable drop in oil pressure. When you did your oil temp testing on horsepower gain, did your FF oil pressure drop with a rise in oil temp? Which, I guess, brings us to another (but, linked) discussion: "optimal" oil pressure ;-) Yes, we did see drop in oil pressure. Idle pressure, post race, was in the 10 psi range with about 25-30 psi at anything over 3000 rpm...which was plenty in that application, evidently, as we went two years without an engine failure. When the motor was taken down, bearing wear was normal. Keep in mind, this is just a VW motor, air cooled, low(er) rpm etc. The other thing that I didn't consider, when I posted earlier, was excessive piston/piston crown heat, which can lead to power loss...in some cases, TOTAL power loss...I was thinking more of elevated engine heat in the intended operating range. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From cmccann at lwpb.com Fri Aug 29 09:42:56 2008 From: cmccann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:42:56 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot (further discussion) In-Reply-To: <20080829151413.FGF10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <20080829100925.W3X3R.188792.imail@eastrmwml09> <20080829151413.FGF10008.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <4419C83983D4FB47AADD6847090647337FFAECC2@LWPB-EX1.LWPB.local> I don't remember if I offered my opinion in the water-wetter discussion last time or not, but I agree with Andy, I have used it on another car that was having cooling problems, or at least would creep up to that 210+ mark, and never noticed a single bit of improvement from the product. I wouldn't consider it a benefit at all. Regarding comfortable temperatures, my 5.0 mustang had a 195 degree thermostat in it from the factory, and I used to run a 180, thinking, well colder must be better, but in fact, especially with computer cars, colder is not always better...whats best is what its tuned to run at. I admit my carbureted car run better when they are cold, but getting the engine to operating temperature is ideal, and for some motors, that might be exactly 210 degrees. As designed. At the auto store you can also get 210 thermostats...for domestic v8's...stock and on the shelf....apparently that temperature is ok by somebody's standards.. Cullen '1452 LRO From sganz at pacbell.net Fri Aug 29 09:55:33 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Message-ID: <177161.16346.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think the part that I saw that said engines like the range 210 degrees was in a ford book (Might have been one of the engine rebuild books on SBF's) but it showed temp vs. metal wear. Not sure if this is what your were talking about but always interesting to see the chart. I just found a link that has a similar chart to the Ford one here. http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/_cool3.html I have had similar 230-240 temps at the track in the 65 mustang with the stock shaped top tank fluidyne and finally am going to replace it with a full sized side take radiator. Water wetter did help as well as getting rid of the anti-freeze, water wetter did nothing with the antifreeze however. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: "MWood24020 at aol.com" To: chris at cthompson.net; bobbridgeford at msn.com Cc: sralsten at ca.rr.com; tigers at autox.team.net; todbrown at roadrunner.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:32:35 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In a message dated 8/29/2008 7:14:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chris at cthompson.net writes: I've also heard many times that our engines *like* 210 degrees. That's about where I run, and it's never bothered me. But I've never heard about temp negatively impacting HP, although I guess it makes sense. Anybody have more data on that? Not Tiger-related, but I've been battling overheating in my Lotus Formula Ford ever since I got it about 3 years ago. On a 90 degree day, I often will run up to 230 or 240 degrees. I would love to blame not getting the podium on my overheating problems ;-) I know ambient temp will effect horsepower production, i.e. at 110 degrees an engine makes about 5% less power than at 75 degrees, but I've never heard of any motor (outside of two strokes, which is a different deal) losing power due to temps of moving parts. Maybe if tolerances were very loose or the engine was very tired, there could be cylinder pressure/sealing loss or if the engine was hot enough to break down the lubricity of the oil?? On the other hand, there can be good power gains derived from running oil temps to the higher end of their range, due to decrease in windage and roping. On your FF, given you are running a quality synthetic race oil, I wouldn't be concerned with 230-240 degree oil temps. On the FV car I ran a few years ago (before getting obsessed with autocross), we found nearly 4hp on the dyno when taking oil temp from 200 to 260, which is still in a range where break down is a non issue. That may not sound like much, but it was a near 6% pick up in power ;-) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From dave at munroe.ca Fri Aug 29 10:14:50 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:14:50 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Optimal oil pressure.... A question I was afraid to ask. I have seen on this list and others, as well in propaganda from owners trying to sell their cars, claims of oil pressures in their SBF's of 60 psi at "speed". My oil pressure at start-up cold is 45 psi on the gauge, dropping to 30 as the engine heats up and reaches 225 230F at 3,000 rpm and up. It would drop to 20 at idle "hot". Now that I have it running at 180-190F, cold pressure is still 45psi. but it never drops below 40psi, now, at operating temp. Hot-rodder's I have spoken with say 10 psi per 1,000 rpm is lots for a "built" engine. What's considered normal or adequate by the Tiger community?? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: MWood24020 at aol.com To: dave at munroe.ca Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In a message dated 8/29/2008 8:03:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dave at munroe.ca writes: One of the reasons why I worry about my engine overheating ( 225- 230F) is the noticeable drop in oil pressure. When you did your oil temp testing on horsepower gain, did your FF oil pressure drop with a rise in oil temp? Which, I guess, brings us to another (but, linked) discussion: "optimal" oil pressure ;-) Yes, we did see drop in oil pressure. Idle pressure, post race, was in the 10 psi range with about 25-30 psi at anything over 3000 rpm...which was plenty in that application, evidently, as we went two years without an engine failure. When the motor was taken down, bearing wear was normal. Keep in mind, this is just a VW motor, air cooled, low(er) rpm etc. The other thing that I didn't consider, when I posted earlier, was excessive piston/piston crown heat, which can lead to power loss...in some cases, TOTAL power loss...I was thinking more of elevated engine heat in the intended operating range. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Fri Aug 29 10:18:22 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:18:22 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a841b0808290918x6b2ae65at4716e979580f0e16@mail.gmail.com> i guess if the car isn't moving or is moving slowly and the engine is running at 240, the engine bay is so hot that the intake charge is warmer and hence less dense than if the engine is at 180. therefore less hp. not too convinced myself as the difference is not huge especially when moving. but its an argument. On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM, Dave Munroe wrote: > Optimal oil pressure.... > > A question I was afraid to ask. I have seen on this list and others, as well in propaganda from owners trying to sell their cars, > claims of oil pressures in their SBF's of 60 psi at "speed". > > My oil pressure at start-up cold is 45 psi on the gauge, dropping to 30 as the engine heats up and reaches 225 230F at 3,000 rpm and up. > It would drop to 20 at idle "hot". > > Now that I have it running at 180-190F, cold pressure is still 45psi. but it never drops below 40psi, now, at operating temp. > > Hot-rodder's I have spoken with say 10 psi per 1,000 rpm is lots for a "built" engine. > > What's considered normal or adequate by the Tiger community?? > > Dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MWood24020 at aol.com > To: dave at munroe.ca > Cc: tigers at autox.team.net > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? > > > In a message dated 8/29/2008 8:03:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dave at munroe.ca writes: > One of the reasons why I worry about my engine overheating ( 225- 230F) is > the noticeable drop in oil pressure. > > When you did your oil temp testing on horsepower gain, did your FF oil > pressure drop with a rise in oil temp? > > > > Which, I guess, brings us to another (but, linked) discussion: "optimal" oil pressure ;-) > > Yes, we did see drop in oil pressure. Idle pressure, post race, was in the 10 psi range with about 25-30 psi at anything over 3000 rpm...which was plenty in that application, evidently, as we went two years without an engine failure. When the motor was taken down, bearing wear was normal. Keep in mind, this is just a VW motor, air cooled, low(er) rpm etc. > > The other thing that I didn't consider, when I posted earlier, was excessive piston/piston crown heat, which can lead to power loss...in some cases, TOTAL power loss...I was thinking more of elevated engine heat in the intended operating range. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From sralsten at ca.rr.com Fri Aug 29 10:26:52 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (sralsten at ca.rr.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:26:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How do I make proper replies ? Message-ID: <5252206.1604681220027212167.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web18-z02> I don't seem to have the knack of using this list yet. I get replies to a list message I started to my email and I reply to them fine but those don't appear on this list, they only go to the persons email. Is there a way to reply that makes it appear on the list ? Thus far I've copied a message then added a reply then submitted it all as though it were new. Is there an easier way ? Steve B9473720 From stubrennan at comcast.net Fri Aug 29 10:49:41 2008 From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:49:41 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How do I make proper replies ? In-Reply-To: <5252206.1604681220027212167.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web18-z02> Message-ID: <000a01c909f7$3c3e55a0$6601a8c0@Brennan> Use the "Reply to All" option, and make sure that the tigers at autox.team.net address is in the list of destinations. Also, I think we still have to delete the tag added to the original message, right?" -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of sralsten at ca.rr.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:27 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] How do I make proper replies ? I don't seem to have the knack of using this list yet. I get replies to a list message I started to my email and I reply to them fine but those don't appear on this list, they only go to the persons email. Is there a way to reply that makes it appear on the list ? Thus far I've copied a message then added a reply then submitted it all as though it were new. Is there an easier way ? Steve B9473720 From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri Aug 29 11:14:12 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:14:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] End of an era In-Reply-To: <48B7496A.6000005@cox.net> References: <20080828165830.L9C29.184442.imail@eastrmwml09> <48B7496A.6000005@cox.net> Message-ID: <48B82E64.40405@SoCal.rr.com> David, (and Andy) I did not see Andy's note on the list, so thanks for posting it. I knew both Phil Hill and Ken Miles, back-in-the-day. We have published a memorial to Ken, and my personal experiences with them, on TigersUnited.com. You can read my Phil Hill memories at: http://www.tigersunited.com/history/p-km5.asp and the Ken Miles obituary starts on "Page 1" of the article. The LA Times printed an obituary and tribute this morning: http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-hill29-2008aug29,0,1758007.story ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com David Sosna wrote: > Thank you, Andy. I didn't know. > A few years back, I was at the Coronado Vintage Races in San > Diego--can't remember if I still had my Tiger (mandatory Tiger > content--grin). I was closely examining an Alta racer and when I looked > up, the other guy standing by the car and having a conversation with > it's owner was--Phil Hill. > I decided that, though he was a public figure, rather than pester him, > I'd just let him enjoy being a car guy, so I finished looking at the > Alta and wandered off to check on the Ferrari down the way. > I'd forgotten that until I saw your post. That was a pretty good day, > so thanks for reminding me of it. > Best Regards > David Sosna > > awtiger at cox.net wrote: > >> I don't know how many of you guys were fans and admirers, but it is with great sorrow that I must pass along some information that I just received. Phil Hill, the first American F1 champion (1961) has passed away due to complications from Parkinson's Disease. I just thought you all might like to know. >> >> Andy Walker >> Edmond, OK >> B382001600LRXFE >> B9006857LRX From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Fri Aug 29 11:34:26 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:34:26 EDT Subject: [Tigers] How do I make proper replies ? Message-ID: You have to add _tigers at Autox.Team.Net_ (mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net) if you do a straight reply. Or just reply to _tigers at Autox.Team.Net_ (mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net) In a message dated 8/29/2008 9:27:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sralsten at ca.rr.com writes: I don't seem to have the knack of using this list yet. I get replies to a list message I started to my email and I reply to them fine but those don't appear on this list, they only go to the persons email. Is there a way to reply that makes it appear on the list ? Thus far I've copied a message then added a reply then submitted it all as though it were new. Is there an easier way ? Steve B9473720 You are subscribed as aaaglasss at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Fri Aug 29 11:51:55 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:51:55 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How do I make proper replies ? In-Reply-To: <5252206.1604681220027212167.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web18-z02> References: <5252206.1604681220027212167.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web18-z02> Message-ID: <48B8373B.1050904@SoCal.rr.com> Steve R., I do not know whose e-mail program you are using, but my "Thunderbird" (Mozilla, FREE) is very good, allows tremendous file saving choices, and has commands to "Reply", or "Reply All". It sounds as if you are using a "Reply" choice, which only goes to the sender. Try the "Reply All" choice, and look at the differences in the address table. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote: > I don't seem to have the knack of using this list yet. > I get replies to a list message I started to my email and I reply to them fine but those don't appear on this list, they only go to the persons email. Is there a way to reply that makes it appear on the list ? Thus far I've copied a message then added a reply then submitted it all as though it were new. Is there an easier way ? > > Steve > B9473720 From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net Fri Aug 29 12:03:36 2008 From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:03:36 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot (further discussion) In-Reply-To: <20080829100925.W3X3R.188792.imail@eastrmwml09> References: <20080829100925.W3X3R.188792.imail@eastrmwml09> Message-ID: <000601c90a01$8f3e7550$6401a8c0@jerry> Andy, I would concur completely about the water wetter stuff, I had no effect what so ever when I tried it. I too am convinced that the answer is more air passing the radiator by any and all means possible is the answer, it was for me. Regarding the temp thing I always refer people to page 53 in Tom Monroe's Small block book, if that doesn't convince you that a higher temp is good for the engine I don't know what will. Jerry Christopherson 9473187 -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of awtiger at cox.net Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:09 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net; Tod Brown; sralsten at ca.rr.com; Robert Bridgeford Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot (further discussion) We've had the "Water Wetter" discussion on this forum before and, once again, I'll register my opinion. First of all, I respect Robert's opinion and experiences, but I must say that mine differ. I have run it in both my Tiger and my vintage racing Alpine at various times with absolutely no change in temperature. My experience tells me it's a waste of money. It's much more important to make sure you have a clean, healthy cooling system. For my money, Water Wetter is not a magic fix. As someone mentioned in a recent e-mail on the cooling subject, air flow is the #1 problem with Tigers with regards to cooling. For those of us who want to retain the stock appearance and equipment, we just have to live with it. I, too, however remember having read that the optimal running temp for a small block Ford is 210 degrees. My Tiger seems very happy between 200 to 210 and never pukes when I shut it off. Is it just me or am I not alone in thinking that the temp gauge face design may have something to do with raising owner's stress levels about how hot is too hot? Most manufactures' cars run about half way up on the temp gauge and they call that the normal operating temp (the early Mustangs & Falcons come to mind...they have temp gauges but they are not gradiated). However, not only did Rootes see fit to assign gradiated numbers on the gauge to represent temp values, most of our cars usually run a little right of center, or on the higer side of what is universally accepted as the "normal operating temp" position. In reality, however, it's not abnormal for a Tiger and it is within the normal operating range of a small block Ford. So, are we really overheating? I wonder how we would all feel if the Tigers had a temperatute "idiot light" instead of a gauge. Would the overheating issue be as big a deal as it is to us? Just food for thought. I'm interested to read other opinions on this. Whadaya'll think??? Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX You are subscribed as jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From rfraser at bluefrog.com Fri Aug 29 12:13:47 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:13:47 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c90a02$fd5fdbe0$36b11840@ronpc1> Dave My Tiger with 260 has 50 psi cold, 45 psi hot at idle and stays there at all speeds. I believe I have read where the minimum oil pressure can be 10 psi at idle and then 5 psi added for every 1000 rpm. Personally I would be concerned about the oil system if the oil pressure dropped below 30 psi. Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave Munroe Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:15 PM To: MWood24020 at aol.com Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? Optimal oil pressure.... A question I was afraid to ask. I have seen on this list and others, as well in propaganda from owners trying to sell their cars, claims of oil pressures in their SBF's of 60 psi at "speed". My oil pressure at start-up cold is 45 psi on the gauge, dropping to 30 as the engine heats up and reaches 225 230F at 3,000 rpm and up. It would drop to 20 at idle "hot". Now that I have it running at 180-190F, cold pressure is still 45psi. but it never drops below 40psi, now, at operating temp. Hot-rodder's I have spoken with say 10 psi per 1,000 rpm is lots for a "built" engine. What's considered normal or adequate by the Tiger community?? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: MWood24020 at aol.com To: dave at munroe.ca Cc: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] How hot is hot ? In a message dated 8/29/2008 8:03:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dave at munroe.ca writes: One of the reasons why I worry about my engine overheating ( 225- 230F) is the noticeable drop in oil pressure. When you did your oil temp testing on horsepower gain, did your FF oil pressure drop with a rise in oil temp? Which, I guess, brings us to another (but, linked) discussion: "optimal" oil pressure ;-) Yes, we did see drop in oil pressure. Idle pressure, post race, was in the 10 psi range with about 25-30 psi at anything over 3000 rpm...which was plenty in that application, evidently, as we went two years without an engine failure. When the motor was taken down, bearing wear was normal. Keep in mind, this is just a VW motor, air cooled, low(er) rpm etc. The other thing that I didn't consider, when I posted earlier, was excessive piston/piston crown heat, which can lead to power loss...in some cases, TOTAL power loss...I was thinking more of elevated engine heat in the intended operating range. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.13/1641 - Release Date: 8/29/2008 7:07 AM From spmdr at juno.com Fri Aug 29 12:45:20 2008 From: spmdr at juno.com (spmdr at juno.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:45:20 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Lower rad hose sucking shut Message-ID: <20080829.114528.-2003473.1.spmdr@juno.com> Seeing I didn't see this pointed out, here goes... Two things to look for if the lower hose collapses: 1) not enough coolant. 2) No pressure in the system. With the above fixed, you will need no support inside the lower hose. Don't underestimate the potential for cooling system leaks! ...and keep an eye on the interior carpet if the system seems to be bottomless! ...don't ask how I know this! DW ____________________________________________________________ Online Banking - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mHmz4ZSujFrvNq8rdVD5vkgZCVt3oZ4VGxDOeJevcXr6S58/ From dave at munroe.ca Fri Aug 29 18:00:05 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:00:05 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Message-ID: <190779441-1220054617-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1302265426-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Optimal oil pressure.... A question I was afraid to ask. I have seen on this list and others, as well in propaganda from owners trying to sell their cars, claims of oil pressures in their SBF's of 60 psi at "speed". My oil pressure at start-up cold is 45 psi on the gauge, dropping to 30 as the engine heats up and reaches 225 230F at 3,000 rpm and up. It would drop to 20 at idle "hot". Now that I have it running at 180-190F, cold pressure is still 45psi. but it never drops below 40psi, now, at operating temp. Hot-rodder's I have spoken with say 10 psi per 1,000 rpm is lots for a "built" engine. What's considered normal or adequate by the Tiger community?? Dave Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network From achd73 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 29 19:55:29 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <190779441-1220054617-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1302265426-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <562918.65026.qm@web30307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dave- Oil pressure, like many things can be argued as what is optimum. In my opinion your pressure drooped when at higher temps because of expansion. One needs to remember that oil pressure is measured by resistance. Thats why as an engine wears, especially the cam and main bearing, oil pressure starts to drop from the numbers it ran when new. So someone might think 60 or 70 lbs. of pressure is wonderful, while I would wonder why it is that high unless a high pressure pump, designed to make that much psi had been installed. Most 260, 289 and 302 engine ran around 50 lbs cold and would stay rather close unless the engine got at or above 220 degrees in temp where it would start dropping off and depending on the condition of the engine the numbers may well vary. Im not sure what the 5.0 HO engines ran new, even tho they too are 302 engines, they do have roller bearings etc. so the desing might be for different numbers. Also you should consider that on a rebuilt engine that the machinist and how well he does his work can play a part in the pressure along with the quality of parts used to rebuild the engine. In my opinion if you have 40 to 50 lbs of pressure you are in good shape, while if I saw 75 lbs I would wonder what was keeping the oil from flowing, thus making higher pressures than normal. regards, TtT --- On Fri, 8/29/08, Dave Munroe wrote: From motoys2001 at comcast.net Sat Aug 30 06:01:29 2008 From: motoys2001 at comcast.net (motoys2001 at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:01:29 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure Message-ID: <083020081201.14669.48B936990005A1060000394D2206998499CECFCFCD9C97019B0103@comcast.net> 45 hot is good. Verify your oil gauge. From dave at munroe.ca Sat Aug 30 06:47:06 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:47:06 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <562918.65026.qm@web30307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <562918.65026.qm@web30307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2C69B054AA744448BBD95DA5BBC2A4E5@DavePC> Thanks Tony; Your words prove accurate. After I received your post, I got off my lazy butt and researched this topic and found some references in my book collection that concurs with your opinion. It is clear that 40 to 50 psi is good pressure for our engines. Bill Carroll has a comprehensive Specification section in his book and lists normal pressure (hot) to be 35/55 psi @ 2000 rpm. Mike Taylor's Book has a reference to the oil pressure normal being 55 psi hot, but no specified rpm. Nothing in the BON on oil pressure specs that I could find, but then it was late... SBF references on the web are surprisingly scarce , but those you can find put good pressure squarely in the 40 to 50 range. 60 psi and up seems to be uncharacteristically high for a "normal" street SBF engine, and there does not appear to be a lot of info on how to modify an engine to produce these high pressures. My mind is at ease! Thanks for your help and insight Tom. I will do my research in advance next time! Dave From michael.s.king at gmail.com Sat Aug 30 07:55:24 2008 From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 23:55:24 +1000 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <2C69B054AA744448BBD95DA5BBC2A4E5@DavePC> References: <562918.65026.qm@web30307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2C69B054AA744448BBD95DA5BBC2A4E5@DavePC> Message-ID: I find the ford performance racing website the most converning.. They sell you brand new engines off the line.. and try and find what oil to use, what plugs to use or what oil psi to expect on their site.. you go splash out a bunch of $ on a nie 302 alloy head roller rocker motor.. and you get very little support... -- Regards Michael King From CoolVT at aol.com Sat Aug 30 08:08:35 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:08:35 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Ford crate Message-ID: And ask them for a dyno print out for hp and tq to see how the thing runs. They refuse to give one. The sales and tech division claim that engineering wouldn't even give it to them. I thought that was very strange. They claimed that if they published numbers and buyers didn't get the same numbers then the buyers would complain. In a way it's sort of like buying a pig in a poke. All you get from them is the highest hp output. **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From gharlowe at comcast.net Sat Aug 30 08:38:57 2008 From: gharlowe at comcast.net (gharlowe at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:38:57 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lower rad hose sucking shut In-Reply-To: <20080829.114528.-2003473.1.spmdr@juno.com> Message-ID: <000201c90aae$2332aa40$030010ac@gharlowe9h3kpn> I had posed the same question about lower radiator hoses to the list in the February timeframe and got a few additional responses from some very resourceful listers (compiled below). I wasn't able to find the part number mentioned below at the rainbird site, but a little more digging may be required. http://store.rainbird.com I was also told the hose would suck shut if you're not running a thermostat. Hope it helps... Graham Harlowe B382001466 --------------------------------------------------------------- For some reason, some hose suppliers have quit supplying the springs in lower hoses, probably some low cost un-American supplier. I found that a "Rainbird" impulse lawn sprinkler has a stainless spring that works great to keep the lower hose from collapsing as the RPM goes up. Since I replace these sprinklers in my lawn regularly, they don't cost me anything but you can buy a sprinkler head for about $16.00 and it's worth it just to find a spring. I have given several away to those who wonder why their car suddenly starts to overheat as they speed up, and solved their problem. These springs are available directly from Rainbird. I ordered the part containing the spring from them just to see if it is possible. The part number is 202415, it costs $12.40. You get more than you need, because the part included the housing, guide sleeve and friction collars. Once the spring is removed, it fits in the lower hose perfectly, just like it was made for it. With shipping, the cost comes to just about what the whole sprinkler cost at your local hardware store. From drmayf at mayfco.com Sat Aug 30 08:36:33 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:36:33 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <2C69B054AA744448BBD95DA5BBC2A4E5@DavePC> References: <562918.65026.qm@web30307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2C69B054AA744448BBD95DA5BBC2A4E5@DavePC> Message-ID: <48B95AF1.8010309@mayfco.com> Dave, all... I am by no means an expert on small block fords, however, I do have some knowledge. The very last paragraph below caught my eye regards how to modify an engine to get high oil pressures.. Lets look at the oil pathway first. Oil comes from the pickup in th epan to the oil pump via a suction into a gerotor pump. The oil is then fed to the filter and then into the oil galleries. It goes into the lifter gallery to the cam bearing gallery and to the main bearing gallery. Oil fed into th emains bearing gallery further goes into the crank to supply the rod bearings. Oil that feeeds the lifters travels up the push rods to the rocker and then onto the springs to cool them. Oil is always seeeking atmospheric pressure and so at each of the bearings it leaks out returning to the pan to be recycled. So where are the places to modify the engine? Well if you have tighter bearing clearances you will get a higher pressure...also more heat. The place that is usually modified, by the manufacturer, is the oil pump. Th eoil pump has a relief spring inside it which is preset to recirculate the oil when the pressure dictated by all the stuff I mentioned above is met. So if you have a low presure situation then most likely you have worn bearings, particualrly the cam bearings. These see a near constant downward load from the valve springs and that tends to wear the cam bearings on the crank shaft side. The oil pump willput as much oil into the system as it can handle witin the limits of the relief spring. I have a melling blue printed high volume pump on my race car because I needed more capacity to feed the turbo. The relief spring on the pump can be adjusted by the user to have what ever pressure he desires. And of course, if you go to a dry sump system you can set the pump pressure to just about anything you want by changing the rpm of the pump. It is interesting to note that a lot of the heat in an engine comes from the pump because it recirculates the bypass oil. I am looking at using a system that eliminates the relief spring in the pump and puts a regulaor on the output side to dump bypass oil back into the pan eliminating the continous heating of the oil. Still an dall, what pressures do I have? Well on the race car, I use a pump that is set to 75 psig, I use 20W50 Valvoline racing oil, a large Fram HP1 racing filter. At the end of a 3 mile run pressur eat idle has dropped to around 50 psig. Hope this helps to understand a bit more on oiling.. It can and I can get deeper if need be. mayf Dave Munroe wrote: >Thanks Tony; > >snip > > >60 psi and up seems to be uncharacteristically high for a "normal" street >SBF engine, and there does not appear to be a lot of info on how to modify >an engine to produce these high pressures. From CoolVT at aol.com Sat Aug 30 09:26:08 2008 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:26:08 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Lower rad hose sucking shut Message-ID: I would look in the yellow pages for a company that does sprinkler systems and see if they have any junk hanging around. Typically when they replace a unit they throw the old one away..spring and all. I've replaced 3 or 4 of the correct sprinkler in my system and have always saved the springs. Don't ask me why:-) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Sat Aug 30 10:56:44 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:56:44 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <190779441-1220054617-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1302265426-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <190779441-1220054617-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1302265426-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <48B97BCC.3030407@SoCal.rr.com> Dave, A bit of history. When I owned a '51 MG-TD I bought all sorts of "improvements" for it, from "Hellings" air cleaners, SU carb. balance tube "U" gauge, and an "oil pressure booster". This device replaced the external oil pressure check relief valve spring. It was made from a nicely machined and polished billet, and had an adjustment knob threaded in to compress the check valve spring. Worked just fine, and I could adjust the oil pressure by simply screwing in the knurled knob, increasing the spring tension, and raising the pressure required to open the valve. It was a regulated pressure setting. I had no idea what the oil pressure should be, but 60 psi mid gauge reading seemed appropriate. Having very few days below 55 F, I don't know if this would have been "off-scale" in colder weather. Anyway. it looked good, and didn't seem to be of any harm. Tiger runs about 40 F. hot, idle, and may creep to 60 on cooler days. Steve ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Dave Munroe wrote: > Optimal oil pressure.... > > A question I was afraid to ask. I have seen on this list and others, as well in propaganda from owners trying to sell their cars, > claims of oil pressures in their SBF's of 60 psi at "speed". > > My oil pressure at start-up cold is 45 psi on the gauge, dropping to 30 as the engine heats up and reaches 225 230F at 3,000 rpm and up. > It would drop to 20 at idle "hot". > > Now that I have it running at 180-190F, cold pressure is still 45psi. but it never drops below 40psi, now, at operating temp. > > Hot-rodder's I have spoken with say 10 psi per 1,000 rpm is lots for a "built" engine. > > What's considered normal or adequate by the Tiger community?? > > Dave From dave at munroe.ca Sat Aug 30 11:39:50 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:39:50 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <48B95AF1.8010309@mayfco.com> References: <562918.65026.qm@web30307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2C69B054AA744448BBD95DA5BBC2A4E5@DavePC> <48B95AF1.8010309@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <6CE84F4DE19C40FC8404AFBA14BE1A31@DavePC> Maybe not an "expert" on SBF's drmayf, but all you need is a briefcase and time to get at least 50 miles out-of-town! ...and from your description of the SBF oil system, you know a lot more about it than most of us, (me anyway!). Thanks for this insightful description of the SBF oiling system. I'm sure many listers will appreciate it as much as I do. As you may have read, my only other LBC experience has been with an MGB 1800 block, which I built up from scratch. There is a pressure relief valve in the oiling system that is accessible ( more or less) from the outside, and different springs are available that change the oil pressure in the system. It sounds like this is the same function of the adjustment within your oil pump. You are the first to mention the viscosity of the oil you regularly run in your engine as well. I was initially using 10/30, but the engine was running so hot right out of the re-build shop, the oil pressure was dropping alarmingly so I changed first to 10/40 and then to 15/40 which brought the pressure back to where it is now. Everything inside the block is new, best I could get stuff, including a complete valve train from Comp Cams with new bushings. Ditto the crank, rods from SCAT and forged pistons from Keith Black. So I am not anxious to let them live in a low oil pressure environment. But it seems from what everyone is telling me, and what I have read, that I am in the ballpark oil pressure wise, so I won't be going in there and replacing things just yet. Thanks again for taking the time to enlighten us all. Cheers, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "drmayf" To: "Dave Munroe" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure > Dave, all... > I am by no means an expert on small block fords, however, I do have some > knowledge. The very last paragraph below caught my eye regards how to > modify an engine to get high oil pressures.. > > Lets look at the oil pathway first. Oil comes from the pickup in th epan From dave at munroe.ca Sat Aug 30 11:46:04 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:46:04 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Oil Pressure In-Reply-To: <48B97BCC.3030407@SoCal.rr.com> References: <190779441-1220054617-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1302265426-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <48B97BCC.3030407@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <683F1B9B58CD473DA4C0389248CA4AF8@DavePC> Hi Steve; That machined and polished from billet "oil pressure adjuster" sounded like a very cool accessory! I am familiar with that adjuster, but have never seen a hot-rodded polished replacement for the old steel original. I still have the MGB, and would have one of those in a minute if it were available, although my oil pressure is good in that engine, even after some 40,000 miles. Sounds like your Tiger has good cam, rod and main bearings too! Thanks for the info. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Laifman" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Oil Pressure > Dave, > > A bit of history. When I owned a '51 MG-TD I bought all sorts of > "improvements" for it, from "Hellings" air cleaners, SU carb. balance tube > "U" gauge, and an "oil pressure booster". > > This device replaced the external oil pressure check relief valve spring. > It was made from a nicely machined and polished billet, and had an > adjustment knob threaded in to compress the check valve spring. > > Worked just fine, and I could adjust the oil pressure by simply screwing > in the knurled knob, increasing the spring tension, and raising the From todbrown at roadrunner.com Sat Aug 30 11:52:08 2008 From: todbrown at roadrunner.com (Tod Brown) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:52:08 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How Hot is Hot? Message-ID: <48B988C8.7060104@roadrunner.com> When I was trying to diagnose things when I first had my engine back together, I knew that verifying the temp gauge reading was important. One thing I found useful was to take an IR thermometer and point it at the thermostat housing as the engine warmed up. You can see the temp rise and then fall briefly as the thermostat opens. This will tell you 1) if the thermostat is working properly, 2) if your IR thermometer is reading correctly (i.e. its reading is consistent with the thermostat rating) and 3) if there is a discrepancy between the IR thermometer and your temp gauge. If your gauge reading is off, you should correct that before doing other stuff. My gauge was off, so I got a mechanical gauge and used that for a while to see what was going on as I drove the car. BTW, I noticed that Dale A. lists a mechanical temp gauge that matches the other Tiger gauges. On that basis, I did some of the usual stuff to help the cooling (blocking the horn holes and adding a Derale fan). As someone else said, air flow is the key. Tod B382002384LRXFE From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Sat Aug 30 13:15:15 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:15:15 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] How Hot is Hot? In-Reply-To: <48B988C8.7060104@roadrunner.com> References: <48B988C8.7060104@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <48B99C43.8090106@SoCal.rr.com> Tod, You are absolutely correct, although I do not think ugly air dams are suitable. For a "sneak" highly effective air handling system I devised one that overcomes many of the deficiencies in the stock system. The stock design allows frontal air flow to by-pass the radiator in many places, where it should be going through the radiator. Although the complete cooling changes made to my car offer amazing effectiveness, the simple, aluminum sheet/tin snip, pop rivet construction of air handling shroud guides provide an amazing amount of the improvement. The details of the entire changes made, including photographs and dimensioned sheet metal patterns for the air handling changes, is in the TigersUnited.com article "Cool It, Buddy!" http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/SteveLaifmanValance/pt-SteveLaifmanValance1.asp It's easy, cheap, and removable. Try it and see, it will be worth the effort even if you do not make the other recommended changes. Steve (BTDT) ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Tod Brown wrote: > <---- snip ----> > As someone else said, air flow is the key. > Tod > B382002384LRXFE From crbernardino at mac.com Sat Aug 30 13:18:52 2008 From: crbernardino at mac.com (Rob Bernardino) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:18:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How Hot is Hot? Message-ID: I concur with all the discussion of airflow. However, I think a lot of air gets trapped in the engine compartment. If you look at modern cars they all have venting in the wheel wells, or the stylish-again fender vents. Perhaps the vents on the lat hood are too high and too close to the windshield (high pressure zone) to be effective for heat escape. I wonder if anyone has experience with the fender vents like on the Tiger rally cars. I am contemplating removing metal in the inner fender to help hot air escape. Might even consider a small exhaust fan there to keep flow going. I have seen that trick on some custom Cobras at it seems to help. Rob in CT From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sat Aug 30 13:44:55 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:44:55 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] How Hot is Hot? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a841b0808301244y28ec472ct1cedfacfbb145926@mail.gmail.com> there's probably enough airflow in there to not need a fan. the renault 5 turbo (mid engined - hence less airflow from the side intakes) has a small tube (about 90mm diameter) running from the header straight down out the bottom with a small electric fan in it. its triggered by a temp sensor in the top of the engine compartment. you can get these sort of fans (12V) from computer stores designed to extract air from computer cases. they are cheap and offer a surprising amount of airflow. On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Rob Bernardino wrote: > I concur with all the discussion of airflow. However, I think a lot of > air gets trapped in the engine compartment. If you look at modern cars > they all have venting in the wheel wells, or the stylish-again fender > vents. Perhaps the vents on the lat hood are too high and too close to > the windshield (high pressure zone) to be effective for heat escape. I > wonder if anyone has experience with the fender vents like on the > Tiger rally cars. I am contemplating removing metal in the inner > fender to help hot air escape. Might even consider a small exhaust fan > there to keep flow going. I have seen that trick on some custom Cobras > at it seems to help. > Rob in CT > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From sralsten at ca.rr.com Sat Aug 30 16:57:14 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (Steve Ralsten) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:57:14 -0800 Subject: [Tigers] How do I make proper replies ? References: <5252206.1604681220027212167.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web18-z02> <48B8373B.1050904@SoCal.rr.com> Message-ID: <005b01c90af3$bf0eaaf0$6a01a8c0@DELL4600> OK I think this one will work. I see it addressed to Steve with a cc to the autox address I don't see any of the footer material in this. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Laifman" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] How do I make proper replies ? > Steve R., > > I do not know whose e-mail program you are using, but my "Thunderbird" > (Mozilla, FREE) is very good, allows tremendous file saving choices, and > has commands to "Reply", or "Reply All". > > It sounds as if you are using a "Reply" choice, which only goes to the > sender. Try the "Reply All" choice, and look at the differences in the > address table. > > Steve > > ___ > Steve Laifman > Editor - TigersUnited.com > > > > sralsten at ca.rr.com wrote: >> I don't seem to have the knack of using this list yet. I get replies to a >> list message I started to my email and I reply to them fine but those >> don't appear on this list, they only go to the persons email. Is there a >> way to reply that makes it appear on the list ? Thus far I've copied a >> message then added a reply then submitted it all as though it were new. >> Is there an easier way ? >> >> Steve >> B9473720 From drmayf at mayfco.com Sat Aug 30 18:31:39 2008 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:31:39 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Off Topic... Laptop Issue, my data logger.. Message-ID: <48B9E66B.20407@mayfco.com> Folks, I use a Panasonic CF-27 Toughbook as my tuner and data logger laptop. On the salt during the first run, I did something in the initial setup to start the data logging that I had not done before and it pretty much killed something. I started the laptop's data logging program and verified that it was logging data. I closed it up and latched it. I have the laptop set up so that no action is taken when the screen is closed like this and have used it this way many times. I use a bungee cord to hold it secure in it's cradle. This time, I left the mouse connected and slipped it under the bungee cord to hold it in place. That was the wrong thing to do. Apparently the bungee "clicked or half clicked" one or both of the mouse buttons and held it in that condition. After the run, I went to look for data and there was none. But the mouse would not work. I tried another mouse and when the laptop boots up and gets to the windows screen, if the mouse is touched the cursor goes berserk. The cursor flies all over the screen opening menus, programs, shutting them down closing things opening things and in general just making a mess. Curiously though, if I leave the mouse unplugged, it is a PS2 unit, and plug it in after the boot up, it works just fine. This is pretty annoying, lol. I have unloaded the mouse driver and let the computer reload it. I have loaded MS Intellipoint 6.1 Mouse program with no change in results. Has anyone experienced anything like this? Any one have any other ideas on what might be wrong? Or how to repair? While I don't know exactly how it works, I suspect the interrupt handler for the mouse is befarkled somehow. The laptop has a touch pad which works perfectly fine... Could a small elecronic component failure do this? Alas, I am lost in these matters.. The mouse that was attached was a ball type and the current one is a optical..all with the same indications. Even tried a USB mouse with a PS2 adapter...same thing. Also tried the USB mouse directly with the same results... Oops, I am using Win XP PRO, SP2. forgot to add that if it is important. mayf, anxiousl;y awaiting From atwittsend at verizon.net Sun Aug 31 00:18:33 2008 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 23:18:33 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers References: Message-ID: <012201c90b31$65846bd0$0302a8c0@student2> >>>>Bugz, who's secretly paranoid that Harbor Freight is really a Commie plot to make Americans into skinned-knuckled, bolt-rounding, incompetent mechanics through the use of crappy tools!<<<<< In part I can agree. However, there are times when I need a tool I'll use once maybe twice in a lifetime. Paying less than half the cost of an American made product seems prudent. Then there is the fact that I live 10 miles from the HF warehouse. They have close-out sales a few times a year. It sure is hard to pass up a refurbished (like new) 60 gallon compressor for $80 (about $500 for their regular price). Then there is the small lathe that was $450 new and my son spied it out in a pile and secured it for $100. $5 angle grinders, $10 hammer drills, etc., etc., etc.. So, yea, some of their stuff is total crap and other decent for the money. If I was using the stuff on a daily basis I would probably buy better. I opted for a Lincoln MIG welder and a Milwaukee Sawzall over HF products. Tom [demime found a multipart/alternative section which it tried to parse but could not find any section which it could render. Please send plain text.] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM From arado7 at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 31 05:50:11 2008 From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 07:50:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers References: <012201c90b31$65846bd0$0302a8c0@student2> Message-ID: <5FD215DC44B144C5BBF2F8D272407C1C@GMI> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Witt" To: Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 2:18 AM Subject: Re: [Tigers] remote thermometers >>>>>Bugz, who's secretly paranoid that Harbor Freight is really a Commie > plot to make Americans into skinned-knuckled, bolt-rounding, incompetent > mechanics through the use of crappy tools!<<<<< > >I have found extraordinary tools at HF. I purchased a stone cutting 2.5hp >wet table saw with machined casting foundation. Used it to completion of >my 850sf. stone facade house project. It did not miss a beat and the $40 >blade lasted. The saw cost $200......There is no way this could be made >and shipped across the Pacific for this money...Just like politics...I >don't understand..Gary B9472283 From dave at munroe.ca Sun Aug 31 06:40:00 2008 From: dave at munroe.ca (Dave Munroe) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:40:00 -0300 Subject: [Tigers] Off Topic... Laptop Issue, my data logger.. In-Reply-To: <48B9E66B.20407@mayfco.com> References: <48B9E66B.20407@mayfco.com> Message-ID: <968ADE2AB29847B091E7275E27BA573B@DavePC> I hear 'ya brother.....frustrating! No matter how competent you might become with these infernal digital brains, there is always another level of mystery that can rise up and bite you. I have a son in IT, and passed your problem along for his view of this miscreant laptop. Here is his answer: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Dad; Hard to say for sure -- interesting problem. My initial thought is that the integrated mouse pad may be fighting with the external mouse -- he' has tried many of the logical things already, so maybe try disabling the integrated mouse pad and see if that helps. --Don ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Typical brief but succinct answer. Just like diagnosing a perplexing tuning problem, you have to go through the steps logically and one at a time. I hope this helps! Best of luck, Dave > change in results. Has anyone experienced anything like this? Any one > have any other ideas on what might be wrong? Or how to repair? While I > don't know exactly how it works, I suspect the interrupt handler for the > mouse is befarkled somehow. The laptop has a touch pad which works > perfectly fine... Could a small elecronic component failure do this? > Alas, I am lost in these matters.. The mouse that was attached was a > ball type and the current one is a optical..all with the same > indications. Even tried a USB mouse with a PS2 adapter...same thing. > Also tried the USB mouse directly with the same results... > > Oops, I am using Win XP PRO, SP2. forgot to add that if it is important. > > mayf, anxiousl;y awaiting From achd73 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 31 08:36:50 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 07:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers In-Reply-To: <012201c90b31$65846bd0$0302a8c0@student2> Message-ID: <662889.12947.qm@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tom- I hate HF junk BUT if I lived where you do and could buy the tools you have at the prices youve mentioned- well I would think of myself as being prudent while having a few of the tools they sell that arent as bad as the majority and be elated at the bargains I or my son had found. Keep buying the bargains and the decent tools, if I lived near you we would be there together. Happt LDW. TonytheTiger --- On Sun, 8/31/08, Thomas Witt wrote: > From: Thomas Witt > Subject: Re: [Tigers] remote thermometers > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 1:18 AM > >>>>Bugz, who's secretly paranoid that > Harbor Freight is really a Commie > plot to make Americans into skinned-knuckled, > bolt-rounding, incompetent > mechanics through the use of crappy > tools!<<<<< > > In part I can agree. However, there are times when I need a > tool I'll use > once maybe twice in a lifetime. Paying less than half the > cost of an > American made product seems prudent. Then there is the > fact that I live 10 > miles from the HF warehouse. They have close-out sales a > few times a year. > It sure is hard to pass up a refurbished (like new) 60 > gallon compressor for > $80 (about $500 for their regular price). Then there is > the small lathe > that was $450 new and my son spied it out in a pile and > secured it for $100. > $5 angle grinders, $10 hammer drills, etc., etc., etc.. > > So, yea, some of their stuff is total crap and other > decent for the money. > If I was using the stuff on a daily basis I would probably > buy better. I > opted for a Lincoln MIG welder and a Milwaukee Sawzall over > HF products. > > Tom > > > [demime found a multipart/alternative section which it > tried > to parse but could not find any section which it could > render. Please send plain text.] > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release > Date: 8/30/2008 > 5:18 PM > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as achd73 at yahoo.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From musta32188 at msn.com Sun Aug 31 08:50:27 2008 From: musta32188 at msn.com (PHILLIP SILK) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:50:27 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] How Hot is Hot? In-Reply-To: <39a841b0808301244y28ec472ct1cedfacfbb145926@mail.gmail.com> References: <39a841b0808301244y28ec472ct1cedfacfbb145926@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've wondered before if two small fans the size of the computer fans you mention under each of the openings in a LAT hood might not help extract some of the unwanted hot air, maybe at least while the car is in traffic or standing still. As long as they are moving air in the right direction, it couldn't hurt. It's actually something I hope to try when my car gets to that point in it's rebuild. ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:44:55 +0100 > From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com > To: crbernardino at mac.com > CC: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Tigers] How Hot is Hot? > > there's probably enough airflow in there to not need a fan. > > the renault 5 turbo (mid engined - hence less airflow from the side > intakes) has a small tube (about 90mm diameter) running from the > header straight down out the bottom with a small electric fan in it. > its triggered by a temp sensor in the top of the engine compartment. > > you can get these sort of fans (12V) from computer stores designed to > extract air from computer cases. they are cheap and offer a > surprising amount of airflow. _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. From sralsten at ca.rr.com Sun Aug 31 10:30:40 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (Steve Ralsten) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 08:30:40 -0800 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Insurance ? Message-ID: <002101c90b86$e8c1d4b0$6a01a8c0@DELL4600> Before getting the Tiger I hadn't used any classic car insurance but had only heard good things about Hagerty. I also found I could tie it in to my umbrella policy at Allstate. What do you guys do about insurance for Tigers and how happy are you ? Anyone suffered serious accident damage ? BTW Hagerty quoted $341 per year which includes their minimally useful 10 mile tow. I put the "agreed" value at $10K more than I paid. Steve B9473720 LROFE From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sun Aug 31 11:02:32 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:02:32 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] bulb question and a little warning Message-ID: <39a841b0808311002j706667fpb28d9d9fdf5d4dc1@mail.gmail.com> hello, can anyone direct me to the type of bulb to buy to replace the rear license place light bulbs? the one i have has no markings on it and local store doesn't carry anything like it. and now the warning... on a related note, the other night i decided to take the tiger to pick up a take out order. i backed out the garage and flipped on the headlights - nothing came on and the charge light and panel lights went out. my first thought (silly me) was that the battery was low, so i turned them off and cranked the engine. no problem - so i turned them back on and still no lights. before i could flip them off (maybe 1 second) the dash started smoking. i turned them off, drove back in and took another car. today i looked for the short and found the left hand headlight bulb was the cause - its shorted the ground to the two live terminals! i have replacement 7" xenon units with modern H4 bulbs (made by GERLUX) which are less than a year old. it was a close call and could have been much worse (destroyed wiring or even a fire) so i'll definitely be wiring in a fuse to the headlights and urge anyone who hasn't already to do likewise. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sun Aug 31 12:56:18 2008 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:56:18 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Off Topic... Laptop Issue, my data logger.. In-Reply-To: <968ADE2AB29847B091E7275E27BA573B@DavePC> References: <48B9E66B.20407@mayfco.com> <968ADE2AB29847B091E7275E27BA573B@DavePC> Message-ID: <39a841b0808311156l78952fa7y8c1f5ad993fcdd34@mail.gmail.com> mayf, dave, i'm a computer scientist and that would be my first thought too. this is most likely hardware related rather than software. i have a similar problem if i plug my switched mode blackberry charger into an outlet near my mac book air - the touch pad goes mad every time i touch it. they appear to be susceptible to some electromagnetic radiation. i would try disabling the internal touchpad in the bios (machine settings accessible by pressing some key when it first turns on - before windows starts loading). On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Dave Munroe wrote: > I hear 'ya brother.....frustrating! > > No matter how competent you might become with these infernal digital brains, > there is always another level of mystery > that can rise up and bite you. > > I have a son in IT, and passed your problem along for his view of this > miscreant laptop. Here is his answer: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Dad; > > Hard to say for sure -- interesting problem. > > My initial thought is that the integrated mouse pad may be fighting > with the external mouse -- he' has tried many of the logical things > already, so maybe try disabling the integrated mouse pad and see if > that helps. > > --Don > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Typical brief but succinct answer. > > Just like diagnosing a perplexing tuning problem, you have to go through the > steps logically and one at a time. > > I hope this helps! > > Best of luck, > > Dave > > > > > >> change in results. Has anyone experienced anything like this? Any one >> have any other ideas on what might be wrong? Or how to repair? While I >> don't know exactly how it works, I suspect the interrupt handler for the >> mouse is befarkled somehow. The laptop has a touch pad which works >> perfectly fine... Could a small elecronic component failure do this? >> Alas, I am lost in these matters.. The mouse that was attached was a >> ball type and the current one is a optical..all with the same >> indications. Even tried a USB mouse with a PS2 adapter...same thing. >> Also tried the USB mouse directly with the same results... >> >> Oops, I am using Win XP PRO, SP2. forgot to add that if it is important. >> >> mayf, anxiousl;y awaiting > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive From choffman9 at cinci.rr.com Sun Aug 31 13:02:12 2008 From: choffman9 at cinci.rr.com (Curt) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 15:02:12 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Was thermometers now HF References: <662889.12947.qm@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I too have bought there. I purchased a 12 ton press, just the ticket for getting the primary bearing off the shaft when rebuilding a Tiger transmission and pressing out universal joints.. Since I have rebuilt three transmissions and 6 universals, and these are about the only things I have used it for, it would not have been prudent to purchase a high quality item. Plus, I figured, how bad can they screw up the steel frame and a 12 ton cylinder jack. Lasted me about 15 years so far, although I can't find the handle for it since my last move. I've had to use a substitute. I am blaming them for losing it for sure. Curt Hoffman From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com Sun Aug 31 13:39:49 2008 From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:39:49 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers In-Reply-To: <662889.12947.qm@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <662889.12947.qm@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48BAF385.4040609@SoCal.rr.com> Tony and Tigers, I have a HF about 2 miles from me, and have bought many tools for limited use. The electric hoist(s) works very well for the Tiger and the Thunderbird hard tops, and is considerably better than a manual winch. One of the greatest tools ever built is the $5.95 electronic fly swatter. I suppose you have all tried to get a flying bug with a conventional swatter, a rolled up newspaper, or your carpet sweeper hose, and find it difficult. No wonder, if you have read the recent article and how insects get away. It seems that it senses approaching danger and JUMPS to the least threatening direction in 1/4 of a second, THEN it flies. The battery operated electronic death machine catches them "on the fly" ;-) , and they are "toast", so to speak. Luckily this is a seldom needed tool, but works and is on the same battery installed 2 years ago. ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Tony Somebody wrote: > Tom- I hate HF junk BUT if I lived where you do and could buy the tools you have at the prices youve mentioned- well I would think of myself as being prudent while having a few of the tools they sell that arent as bad as the majority and be elated at the bargains I or my son had found. Keep buying the bargains and the decent tools, if I lived near you we would be there together. > Happt LDW. > TonytheTiger From rfraser at bluefrog.com Sun Aug 31 16:28:54 2008 From: rfraser at bluefrog.com ( Ron Fraser) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:28:54 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] bulb question and a little warning In-Reply-To: <39a841b0808311002j706667fpb28d9d9fdf5d4dc1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000201c90bb8$f4fd51a0$53931840@ronpc1> Owain My MK IA has # 57 bulbs for the license plate. Here is a note I have but I do not know the source or if it is totally correct. License bulb L.989 6W or L.501 5W 57 (1895)? Ron Fraser -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+rfraser=bluefrog.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Owain Lloyd Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 1:03 PM To: Tigers Den Subject: [Tigers] bulb question and a little warning hello, can anyone direct me to the type of bulb to buy to replace the rear license place light bulbs? the one i have has no markings on it and local store doesn't carry anything like it. and now the warning... on a related note, the other night i decided to take the tiger to pick up a take out order. i backed out the garage and flipped on the headlights - nothing came on and the charge light and panel lights went out. my first thought (silly me) was that the battery was low, so i turned them off and cranked the engine. no problem - so i turned them back on and still no lights. before i could flip them off (maybe 1 second) the dash started smoking. i turned them off, drove back in and took another car. today i looked for the short and found the left hand headlight bulb was the cause - its shorted the ground to the two live terminals! i have replacement 7" xenon units with modern H4 bulbs (made by GERLUX) which are less than a year old. it was a close call and could have been much worse (destroyed wiring or even a fire) so i'll definitely be wiring in a fuse to the headlights and urge anyone who hasn't already to do likewise. You are subscribed as rfraser at bluefrog.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM From AAAGLASSS at aol.com Sun Aug 31 16:35:30 2008 From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:35:30 EDT Subject: [Tigers] remote thermometers Message-ID: Got a HF 16 speed floor drill press. Came with no chuck key. Couldn't find one anywhere local. HF has them in phone in orders. $1.32+ $6.50 shipping. The gal I spoke to tried to sell me everything in the store including mag subscriptions. What a load of BS. I finally had to tell her I didn't want anything but the parts I ordered or she would have gone on forever. In a message dated 8/31/2008 12:40:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com writes: Tony and Tigers, I have a HF about 2 miles from me, and have bought many tools for limited use. The electric hoist(s) works very well for the Tiger and the Thunderbird hard tops, and is considerably better than a manual winch. One of the greatest tools ever built is the $5.95 electronic fly swatter. I suppose you have all tried to get a flying bug with a conventional swatter, a rolled up newspaper, or your carpet sweeper hose, and find it difficult. No wonder, if you have read the recent article and how insects get away. It seems that it senses approaching danger and JUMPS to the least threatening direction in 1/4 of a second, THEN it flies. The battery operated electronic death machine catches them "on the fly" ;-) , and they are "toast", so to speak. Luckily this is a seldom needed tool, but works and is on the same battery installed 2 years ago. ___ Steve Laifman Editor - TigersUnited.com Tony Somebody wrote: > Tom- I hate HF junk BUT if I lived where you do and could buy the tools you have at the prices youve mentioned- well I would think of myself as being prudent while having a few of the tools they sell that arent as bad as the majority and be elated at the bargains I or my son had found. Keep buying the bargains and the decent tools, if I lived near you we would be there together. > Happt LDW. > TonytheTiger You are subscribed as aaaglasss at aol.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) From sganz at pacbell.net Sun Aug 31 19:30:32 2008 From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Insurance ? Message-ID: <911437.81624.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just renued my hagerty about $200 policy it was less then that but I guess it depends on the limits. I can share off line if you want some of the details. Sandy ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Ralsten To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 9:30:40 AM Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Insurance ? Before getting the Tiger I hadn't used any classic car insurance but had only heard good things about Hagerty. I also found I could tie it in to my umbrella policy at Allstate. What do you guys do about insurance for Tigers and how happy are you ? Anyone suffered serious accident damage ? BTW Hagerty quoted $341 per year which includes their minimally useful 10 mile tow. I put the "agreed" value at $10K more than I paid. Steve B9473720 LROFE _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers http://www.team.net/archive From achd73 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 31 19:37:25 2008 From: achd73 at yahoo.com (Tony Somebody) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Subway Tiger promor reply- FYI Message-ID: <962192.45625.qm@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was wondering who won the Subway Tiger so I requested a list of winners from the rules page and below is the response. I think it would kEWL if someone on the LIST wont the car- I know, everyone should own a Tiger, I shouldn't be greedy but I just hope they really give it away- not that I don't trust big business, government agencies or my X wife. "W - Get Smart. Eat Fresh. Win Big. Winner List Request,b Thank you for your email. We will respond to your request 8-10 weeks after the conclusion of the promotion. A copy of the Win List will be sent to the email address that this request was sent from. We will only respond to requests received within 3 months after the conclusion of the promotion. Sincerely, Prize Fulfillment Services From sralsten at ca.rr.com Sun Aug 31 22:13:25 2008 From: sralsten at ca.rr.com (Steve Ralsten) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:13:25 -0800 Subject: [Tigers] Subway Tiger promor reply- FYI References: <962192.45625.qm@web30305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01c90be9$1555cd80$6a01a8c0@DELL4600> I recall Aug 20th as a end date. Was that the day the winner was notified of the day the contest stopped ? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Somebody" To: Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Subway Tiger promor reply- FYI >I was wondering who won the Subway Tiger so I requested a list of winners >from > the rules page and below is the response. I think it would kEWL if someone > on > the LIST wont the car- I know, everyone should own a Tiger, I shouldn't be > greedy but I just hope they really give it away- not that I don't trust > big > business, government agencies or my X wife. > > "W - Get Smart. Eat Fresh. Win Big. Winner List Request,b > Thank you for your email. We will respond to your request 8-10 weeks > after > the conclusion of the promotion. A copy of the Win List will be sent to > the > email address that this request was sent from. We will only respond to > requests received within 3 months after the conclusion of the promotion. > > > Sincerely, > Prize Fulfillment Services > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as sralsten at ca.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > http://www.team.net/archive