From crbernardino at mac.com  Sat Dec  1 06:34:39 2007
From: crbernardino at mac.com (Robert Bernardino)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:34:39 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse  (Off Topic)
Message-ID: <EE3E1102-0486-4AFC-BFFB-BFB5B5F1C870@mac.com>

People who are car enthusiasts are not the focus of these automated  
ticket machines. We obviously care for our cars and in turn the way we  
drive. However, there is a need for social engineering - i.e. ways to  
use technology to curb bad behavior - i.e. running red lights, etc. I  
for one would like a system like netflix or amazon, where everyone  
rates everything. If you see a driver running a red light, you could  
have a device in your car where you press a button and a picture is  
sent to a central database. If the person accrues enough of these  
'hits' they receive a ticket, increased insurance, etc. There are not  
enough cops out their to enforce reasonable traffic laws and I am sure  
being as defensive a driver as I am in my daily driver Tiger, I have  
still have the nose of the Cat almost clipped daily by some idiot  
beating the red light, etc.

Rob in CT

From twojohnsons at cox.net  Sat Dec  1 07:09:22 2007
From: twojohnsons at cox.net (Alvin Johnson)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:09:22 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse   (Off Topic)
References: <EE3E1102-0486-4AFC-BFFB-BFB5B5F1C870@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c83423$c5de5080$f03dc048@13930193605348f>

Holy shit--Is this the "Big Brother" model or is it a permutation of the 
East German "Stasi" system.
We can rat-out our neighbors.
We have needless 4-way stops on thru streets & speed bumps blossoming all 
over the place to impede drivers in our community because our gutless 
council reps respond to this kind of drivel.
Libertarianism never looked better.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Bernardino" <crbernardino at mac.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers, now traffic law abuse (Off 
Topic)


> People who are car enthusiasts are not the focus of these automated
> ticket machines. We obviously care for our cars and in turn the way we
> drive. However, there is a need for social engineering - i.e. ways to
> use technology to curb bad behavior - i.e. running red lights, etc. I
> for one would like a system like netflix or amazon, where everyone
> rates everything. If you see a driver running a red light, you could
> have a device in your car where you press a button and a picture is
> sent to a central database. If the person accrues enough of these
> 'hits' they receive a ticket, increased insurance, etc. There are not
> enough cops out their to enforce reasonable traffic laws and I am sure
> being as defensive a driver as I am in my daily driver Tiger, I have
> still have the nose of the Cat almost clipped daily by some idiot
> beating the red light, etc.
>
> Rob in CT
> _______________________________________________
> twojohnsons at cox.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Sat Dec  1 08:22:42 2007
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:22:42 EST
Subject: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse    (Off Topic)
Message-ID: <c8f.1affc0da.3482d642@aol.com>

According to IL traffic code, you are allowed to enter an intersection on  
yellow.
 
My son's girl friend was in an intersection waiting turn left when the  light
changed from yellow to red.  While she was completing the turn, an  idiot
T-boned her on the passenger door.  He claimed the light was yellow  and
she turned in front of him.  The car that beside the idiot stopped  before
entering the intersection. The cop gave her a ticket for failure to yield  to
oncoming traffic. 
 
I went to the police station to complain.  No luck.  It seems  that unlike
what I was taught  (if the light is yellow STOP if you can  safely)  in IL
it means FLOOR IT.  If you make it into the intersection you have  the
right of way.
 
Now I'm in Indpls.  IN has the best solution to the front plate.   IN has
no front plate.  
 
There was an Alpine from Canada at the Aspen SUNI that was a shop 
project for high school.  It has a rolling plate in the trunk lid ala  James 
Bond.
 
Dave



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From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Dec  1 08:35:13 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:35:13 EST
Subject: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse     (Off Topic)
Message-ID: <c5a.1ed637f5.3482d931@aol.com>

I have heard that the yellow light is a warning that red is coming  and also 
a method of allowing time for the intersectin to clear before the next  light  
change.
One of the problems I see is that if there are 3 or 4 lanes in each  
direction, the intersection is very wide and takes a lot of time to get  through.  
Each intersection is supposed to be engineered in accordance with  Federal Safety 
standards.  And, these very wide intersections are supposed  to have a longer 
lasting yellow light. They don't always.  A friend beat a  red light ticket 
by proving exactly this point.  If you entered the  intersection at the very 
last touch of green, it was impossible to get through  and out of the 
intersection cleanly and at a safe speed before the light turned  red.



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
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From ascott at globalplastics.co.zw  Sat Dec  1 09:41:39 2007
From: ascott at globalplastics.co.zw (Athena Scott)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:41:39 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] 260/302 modifications
Message-ID: <20071201165253.020C81879F1@autox.team.net>

Could anyone tell me the problems in installing a 302 motor into my Tiger
which currently has a 260 motor.  Concerns are engine, clutch, gearbox
alterations or modifications.  At this stage I haven't got the 302 motor but
looking for one locally, if the problems are not too big.

From ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net  Sat Dec  1 13:14:02 2007
From: ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net (Ross)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:14:02 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] was License Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse      (Off Topic)
In-Reply-To: <c5a.1ed637f5.3482d931@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002101c83456$b7bae5d0$6600a8c0@your9d609cd8ac>

In Portland, Oregon last year the local "investigative" channel did a report
on complaints about Red Light cameras in a local area city and short yellows
which had causeing an increase in traffic citations.
They found that the timing on yellow had been reduced compared to all other
intersections which did not have cameras. The station then filmed cars
entering intersections legally and safely which were getting caught by the
cameras.
Their investigation pointed a finger at the city (un-named in this
narrative) for illegally generating revenue and creating a hazardous
situation. The city said the contractor must have done the deed and they
were innocent of all charges. The TV station found that the installers did
shorten the times because they shared in the revenue.  The station made a
point of how this was a very dangerous practice. The city re-regulated the
yellow lights and removed some of the cameras but not all.  And then the
city erected prominent signs indicating the intersection was patrolled by
Red Light cameras.
Sometime you can beat "City Hall" with a little help. ~(:>)

Ross


I have heard that the yellow light is a warning that red is coming  and also

a method of allowing time for the intersectin to clear before the next
light  
change.
One of the problems I see is that if there are 3 or 4 lanes in each  
direction, the intersection is very wide and takes a lot of time to get
through.  
Each intersection is supposed to be engineered in accordance with  Federal
Safety 
standards.  And, these very wide intersections are supposed  to have a
longer 
lasting yellow light. They don't always.  A friend beat a  red light ticket 
by proving exactly this point.  If you entered the  intersection at the very

last touch of green, it was impossible to get through  and out of the 
intersection cleanly and at a safe speed before the light turned  red.

From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Dec  1 13:24:52 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:24:52 EST
Subject: [Tigers] was License Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse       (Off Topic)
Message-ID: <bdc.1d4a6fe5.34831d14@aol.com>

I guess I wouldn't mind cameras as long as the yellow is long  enough to get 
people through.  It has gotten to  the point now where I  never begin to move 
when I get a green light unless I look both ways.   About 20% of the time 
somebody comes flying through on my green. 
If I am near a truck or tall SUV and can't see, I either creep out  or wait 
until they move.  Since I am so vulnerable in the Tiger  I add about 3 seconds 
to that wait time.  Of course then I have  to drop the hammer to make up for 
that lost 3  seconds:-)



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From awtiger at cox.net  Sat Dec  1 15:45:01 2007
From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:45:01 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse    (Off Topic)
In-Reply-To: <000f01c83423$c5de5080$f03dc048@13930193605348f>
Message-ID: <20071201174501.RBPOH.159468.root@fed1wml23.mgt.cox.net>

Ya' know, folks...I've been sitting on the sideline just reading some of this
stuff and have, up until now, been successful in not getting involved in this.
But, now I can't help myself.  I just can't believe that no one has brought up
the bottom line here...running through an intersection to beat a red light is
just asking to either be hit or hit someone else.  Let's face it; the only
reason these cameras are out there is because there are a bunch of dumbass
drivers who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves and they don't think
about the consequences of their actions.   All they care about is getting to
where they are going a couple of minutes earlier and if someone gets in their
way, then that's what they get for getting in their way.  Yeah, yeah...I'm
sure there are some municipalities that take advantage of having intersection
cameras and they ought to be ashamed of themselves for doing so.  But the fact
remains that there is obviously a problem with red light runners or this
wouldn't even be an issue.

The way I see it is that you've got to ask yourself that famous Clint Eastwood
question, "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, for your sake and the sake of those you
might run over, I hope you are lucky.  But, being "lucky" is usually a numbers
game; sooner or later, your luck will run out.  It's your funeral...

Andy Walker
Edmond, OK
B382001600LRXFE
B9006857LRX

From rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com  Sat Dec  1 15:55:18 2007
From: rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com (Robert Palmer)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:55:18 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] new power for mustang
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FA9@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FA9@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <001701c8346d$3f1cf0c0$6a01a8c0@tarbaby>

I can't help but imagine how embarrassed he would be in a 1/4 mile matchup
with this Acura RX that puts out 570 HP at 8,000 rpm. What matters is torque
at the rear wheels, not the engine, and that's just a matter of gearing.

http://www.dragtimes.com/2001-Acura-Integra-Dyno-Results-Graphs-10796.html

http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura-Integra-Timeslip-10796.html

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Smit, Theo
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:00 PM
To: Rollright at aol.com
Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] new power for mustang

Roots supercharger case sizes go up to 16-71... although GMC didn't ever
make that size.
http://www.racecarbook.com/articles/superchargers.shtml


________________________________

From: Rollright at aol.com [mailto:Rollright at aol.com]
Sent: November 30, 2007 1:45 PM
To: Smit, Theo
Cc: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] new power for mustang


Is there anything bigger than a GMC 6-71 blower?

He does need it. It lack height...................

Jim Armstrong

Jim Armstrong
MK 1A 382002083
Rollright at aol.com



________________________________

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_______________________________________________
rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From fabbro at shaw.ca  Sat Dec  1 16:18:20 2007
From: fabbro at shaw.ca (Fabbro)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 15:18:20 -0800
Subject: [Tigers]  260/302 modifications
Message-ID: <002901c83470$765fcaf0$00494546@fabbro>

Test

From fabbro at shaw.ca  Sat Dec  1 16:26:47 2007
From: fabbro at shaw.ca (Fabbro)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 15:26:47 -0800
Subject: [Tigers]  260/302 modifications
Message-ID: <002e01c83471$a4563100$00494546@fabbro>

My understanding is that the engine block dimensions externally are the
same. The 302-bolt pattern will be of a 6-bolt type on the bell housing;
on the transmission, housing from your 260 will be a 5-bolt type. I am
not sure about the clutch slave cylinder will have to be changed. May be
some one can add to this message. 

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Dec  1 17:13:54 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:13:54 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] 260/302 modifications
In-Reply-To: <002e01c83471$a4563100$00494546@fabbro>
References: <002e01c83471$a4563100$00494546@fabbro>
Message-ID: <4751F8C2.7010606@SoCal.rr.com>

Yes, they would. Unless bell housings are changed.  A Mk II gearbox has 
both patterns, and will fit either bell housing.  Better stock gearing, 
as well.  Watch the speedo helical gear drive to match speedo calibration.

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Fabbro wrote:

>My understanding is that the engine block dimensions externally are the
>same. The 302-bolt pattern will be of a 6-bolt type on the bell housing;
>on the transmission, housing from your 260 will be a 5-bolt type. I am
>not sure about the clutch slave cylinder will have to be changed. May be
>some one can add to this message. 
>_______________________________________________
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Sat Dec  1 17:42:34 2007
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:42:34 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] 260/302 modifications
In-Reply-To: <002e01c83471$a4563100$00494546@fabbro>
References: <002e01c83471$a4563100$00494546@fabbro>
Message-ID: <000301c8347c$3abca610$64f3c04a@jerry>

These are some of the things I did when I put in a 91' block:

At some point, the engines went to a 50oz,(somewhere in the late '80s when
they went to roller cams) instead of the 260's 28oz. externally balanced
flywheel.  Make sure you don't mix the two.

The front pulley is a four bolt, instead of the tigers' three bolt. If you
go to a roller camshaft (highly recommended) and you use the old
distributor, you have to make sure the distributor gear is steel so it is
compatible with the roller cam.

The timing mark on the newer 302s is on the passenger side; so, if you have
the outlet of the radiator (bottom) in the stock place, you have to put new
timing marks on the driver's side of the damper so you can time the engine.

The new water pump pulley mounting flange has to be pressed on a little
further to match the crank pulley.

There is a clutch bracket that is for the six-bolt housing. I've forgotten
who has it, but it's out there.

I also used the 164 tooth flywheel, to allow for a 10.5 inch clutch.

Ran 12.97et 106.67 w/street tires. 

Jerry Christopherson
9473187

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Fabbro
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:27 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] 260/302 modifications

My understanding is that the engine block dimensions externally are the
same. The 302-bolt pattern will be of a 6-bolt type on the bell housing;
on the transmission, housing from your 260 will be a 5-bolt type. I am
not sure about the clutch slave cylinder will have to be changed. May be
some one can add to this message. 
_______________________________________________
jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From bamcnulty at optonline.net  Sat Dec  1 18:39:25 2007
From: bamcnulty at optonline.net (Tony McNulty)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:39:25 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse     (Off Topic)
References: <20071201174501.RBPOH.159468.root@fed1wml23.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c83484$2c3be7b0$0200a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

AMEN!!!!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <awtiger at cox.net>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers, now traffic law abuse (Off 
Topic)


> Ya' know, folks...I've been sitting on the sideline just reading some of 
> this
> stuff and have, up until now, been successful in not getting involved in 
> this.
> But, now I can't help myself.  I just can't believe that no one has 
> brought up
> the bottom line here...running through an intersection to beat a red light 
> is
> just asking to either be hit or hit someone else.  Let's face it; the only
> reason these cameras are out there is because there are a bunch of dumbass
> drivers who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves and they don't 
> think
> about the consequences of their actions.   All they care about is getting 
> to
> where they are going a couple of minutes earlier and if someone gets in 
> their
> way, then that's what they get for getting in their way.  Yeah, yeah...I'm
> sure there are some municipalities that take advantage of having 
> intersection
> cameras and they ought to be ashamed of themselves for doing so.  But the 
> fact
> remains that there is obviously a problem with red light runners or this
> wouldn't even be an issue.
>
> The way I see it is that you've got to ask yourself that famous Clint 
> Eastwood
> question, "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, for your sake and the sake of those 
> you
> might run over, I hope you are lucky.  But, being "lucky" is usually a 
> numbers
> game; sooner or later, your luck will run out.  It's your funeral...
>
> Andy Walker
> Edmond, OK
> B382001600LRXFE
> B9006857LRX
> _______________________________________________
> bamcnulty at optonline.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From banana111 at msn.com  Sat Dec  1 18:58:33 2007
From: banana111 at msn.com (Brent Edinger)
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:58:33 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] 260/302 modifications
Message-ID: <BLU120-DAV8E7A24C8AF46F2029D32EF7730@phx.gbl>

Try this
http://tigersunited.com/techtips/CurtisFisherCrate/pt-CurtisFisherCrate1.asp<
http://tigersunited.com/techtips/CurtisFisherCrate/pt-CurtisFisherCrate1.asp>
for 5.0 motors.
It depends on what year motor you are trying to install. An early 302 will
bolt right in. Might have to
change the slave cylinder mount.

            Brent



Message: 5
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:41:39 +0200
From: "Athena Scott"
<ascott at globalplastics.co.zw<mailto:ascott at globalplastics.co.zw>>
Subject: [Tigers] 260/302 modifications
To: <tigers at autox.team.net<mailto:tigers at autox.team.net>>
Message-ID:
<20071201165253.020C81879F1 at autox.team.net<mailto:20071201165253.020C81879F1@
autox.team.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Could anyone tell me the problems in installing a 302 motor into my Tiger
which currently has a 260 motor.  Concerns are engine, clutch, gearbox
alterations or modifications.  At this stage I haven't got the 302 motor but
looking for one locally, if the problems are not too big.

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Sat Dec  1 22:16:03 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:16:03 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger like story
Message-ID: <00d501c834a2$6ffa9aa0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

  Found this little bit of information while looking up Rostyle wheels.
Apparently there was a limited production (about 500) of the Lincoln/Mercury
Capri (1970's) that had Ford authorized V-8's installed. Similar to the Norm
Miller named "African Violets" they were made in South Africa. I thought there
was enough similarities (small sports car, American V-8 engine) between these
cars called "Perana" and our Tiger's for those who take interest in stories of
a like flavor.

http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_info_ford_capri_perana.htm

Tom Witt

From CoolVT at aol.com  Sun Dec  2 05:53:55 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 07:53:55 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger like story
Message-ID: <c6f.1efb63cd.348404e3@aol.com>

Tom, that is pretty interesting. I wouldn't mind owning one of  those.  One 
thing mentioned is that a different steering rack was fitted to  the car and 
was "behind the engine."  Am I missing something  here?
And, banning them from racing because they won all of the  races....sounds 
like the Hemi in the Superbirds for NASCAR.
M



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From twojohnsons at cox.net  Sun Dec  2 06:40:16 2007
From: twojohnsons at cox.net (Alvin Johnson)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 08:40:16 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] was License Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse      (Off Topic)
References: <002101c83456$b7bae5d0$6600a8c0@your9d609cd8ac>
Message-ID: <001501c834e8$dfa5c820$f03dc048@13930193605348f>

When they say "It's not about the money," you can be sure it's about the 
money. 

From GRMTim at aol.com  Sun Dec  2 06:40:39 2007
From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 08:40:39 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Hollywood Tiger
Message-ID: <c76.1c9afac9.34840fd7@aol.com>

All January issues included the calendar. We still have some left. Just go to 
our website or call our office.

Our Tiger project is going to be finished by the end of the month and stories 
are slated to start in the next issue of Classic Motorsports. Updates and 
pics can be found on our website, under project cars.

Tim Suddard
Publisher; Classic Motorsports
and Grassroots Motorsports magazines
www.classicmotorsports.net
www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040



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From phastphill at aol.com  Sun Dec  2 12:36:33 2007
From: phastphill at aol.com (phastphill at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:36:33 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers,
 now traffic law abuse     (Off Topic)
In-Reply-To: <20071201174501.RBPOH.159468.root@fed1wml23.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <8CA0331C787120E-CF4-5DAF@webmail-md02.sysops.aol.com>

---- Original Message ----
From: awtiger at cox.net
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Tigers] was Licence Plate covers, now traffic law abuse (Off Topic)



Ya' know, folks...I've been sitting on the sideline just reading some of this
stuff and have, up until now, been successful in not getting involved in this.
But, now I can't help myself.  I just can't believe that no one has brought up
the bottom line here...running through an intersection to beat a red light is
just asking to either be hit or hit someone else.  

The way I see it is that you've got to ask yourself that famous Clint Eastwood
question, "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, for your sake and the sake of those you
might run over, I hope you are lucky.  But, being "lucky" is usually a numbers
game; sooner or later, your luck will run out.  It's your funeral.


_______________________________________________

AMEN I have been hit twice by Asholes running red lights In the big city of Toronto there are a large group of people who are "special" Maybe a city by you has some as well, because they have special needs rules apply to others but not them. To busy to stop for a red light, let the others do it. Four way stops, piss on them. Handicap parking, hey I'm in a hurry. I'm fed up with these spoiled, selfish jerks.....thanks I feel better.....cheers
phastphill at aol.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers


________________________________________________________________________
Need a free e-mail account?  Get one now at Mail.AOL.ca

From rjw at wengco.com  Mon Dec  3 05:29:44 2007
From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:29:44 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo
Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C566D7E0@weco1.wengco.com>

I have rebuilt my servo and when I have the engine running and put on
the brakes then let off the pedal the brakes hang up (stay on). If I
shut the engine off the brakes stay on unless I push the pedal then they
go off; any ideas or should I toss the unit and go to a dual master
cylinder which may increase my probability of not running a yellow
light?



Bob

B382001318LRXFE

From Sjhcobra1 at cs.com  Mon Dec  3 10:26:25 2007
From: Sjhcobra1 at cs.com (Sjhcobra1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:26:25 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo
Message-ID: <1153B844.4C206A15.028BE4CD@cs.com>

Bob:

I have by-passed the booster on two of my Tigers and actually prefer the brakes without the assist.

Steve Halbrook

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec  3 11:41:40 2007
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:41:40 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Pulleys
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV90B18EC8A7E6164E88A86C16C0@phx.gbl>

I managed to find a 289 5 bolt short block + heads locally, haven't had a 
chance to tear into it to see if it is rebuildable yet or not, but I paid 
very little for it, so hopefully not a big mistake on my part.

I am missing a few pieces and was looking for some advice.

The short block came missing the timing cover, but I believe I have an early 
style timing cover on the shelf already, but I don't remember which part # 
it is, but I thought it was not the C4AZ-6019-A that I found in the parts 
list.

Was there any differences (that matter) on those early timing covers, or 
should they all be interchangeable?  Most of the references I found just 
mention whether or not the oil filler tube is cast shut or totally removed 
from the casting.

There was also no pulleys with the engine, so I was curious what pulleys I 
should be on the lookout for.  I believe I remember being told that the 
original tiger pulleys were a ford industrial only part and very hard to 
obtain.  The current motor in the tiger looks like it probably doesn't have 
the right pulley setup since the generator doesn't appear to be lined up 
quite right (at least by my eye).

When I went looking at ebay, most used crank and water pump pulleys that are 
out there are poorly documented, and it seems more like you have to ask for 
dimension to be assured what you are looking at.  But I also noticed the 
same part # being listed as different dimensions, which I assume is the way 
that it was measured.  I would assume that Ford would measure from the 
middle of the groove to the back face of the pulley (where the water pump 
touches), but many used parts guys would measure simply the depth (which 
would be the outside of the groove to the back face of the pulley).

So any advise on what the actual tigers were suppose to use (diameter, 
depth, and belt width)
plus what may work even if it is not right (year application?/ possible part 
#/ and/or diameter, depth, and belt width).

Thanks,
Steve

From DJoh797014 at aol.com  Mon Dec  3 15:55:42 2007
From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:55:42 EST
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo
Message-ID: <c95.1e73e9eb.3485e36e@aol.com>

Sound like the plunger in the can is hung up.   The spring  is not strong 
enough
to rebound from the vacuum when yoo release the pedal.  With the  engine off
when you hit the brake you should hear a small his as the vacuum is  released.
This lets the spring push the plunger back freeing the brakes.
 
Cause is usually the seal around the plunger is too tight.  Years ago  CAT had
a tip from Tiger Tom that the foam rubber rope in the new Girling kits  were
too thick causing the brakes to hang.  He sugested trimming the seal  so the
plunger moves easily in the can.  The inside of the can must be  extremely
smooth.  Lube the inside and the leather seal in the plunger with the  famous
red rubber grease.
 
Use you brake bypass while addressing the problem.  Every Tiger driver  with a
booster should carry one.
 
Try driving with the booster bypassed.  Most of the racers  do.  You have to 
brake
harder but it is 100% reliable.  Doug Jenning sells the bigger Alpine  wheel
cylinders that help some.
 
Good luck.
 
Dave Johnson



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
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From TIGEROOTES at aol.com  Mon Dec  3 18:15:20 2007
From: TIGEROOTES at aol.com (TIGEROOTES at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:15:20 EST
Subject: [Tigers] steering column
Message-ID: <cc4.21d22860.34860428@aol.com>

Barry,
       Yes, I have rebuilt two Tiger Steering Columns for Gary Haslip and 
over 170 to date.  If you can open an MS-WORD attachment, I will send you an 
article I wrote about ten years ago on the process.  Its been printed in the CAT, 
STOA, TEAE (twice) and PTC Newsletters.  Thanks for the inquiry,
Jim Leach    Pacific Tiger Club     Seattle (member since 1976)



**************************************
Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

From wseay at embarqmail.com  Mon Dec  3 18:16:33 2007
From: wseay at embarqmail.com (Will Seay)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:16:33 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo
References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C566D7E0@weco1.wengco.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c83613$50416280$0201a8c0@xpseay>

Bob,
I've seen this problem before.  Unfortunately it was many years ago and my 
recollection of specifics is pretty vague, but here goes anyway.  The unit 
contains a spring.  As I recall, the spring is made of a piece of flat 
spring metal.  If I recall correctly it's stirrup or 'C' shaped.  The 
problem occurs if the spring is installed upside down - it's easy to do.  If 
upside down, the spring has no effect and the valving in the servo can lock 
up.  Remedy - open the servo up and turn the spring over.

Hope this helps - Will

B382001570
___________________________
Will Seay wseay at embarqmail.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert J. Wanty" <rjw at wengco.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 7:29 AM
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo


I have rebuilt my servo and when I have the engine running and put on
the brakes then let off the pedal the brakes hang up (stay on). If I
shut the engine off the brakes stay on unless I push the pedal then they
go off; any ideas or should I toss the unit and go to a dual master
cylinder which may increase my probability of not running a yellow
light?



Bob

B382001318LRXFE
_______________________________________________
wseay at embarqmail.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers 

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Mon Dec  3 19:01:16 2007
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:01:16 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo
In-Reply-To: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C566D7E0@weco1.wengco.com>
References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C566D7E0@weco1.wengco.com>
Message-ID: <003801c83619$8df36500$64f3c04a@jerry>

Bob,

It sounds to me like the control valve is the problem. If it isn't moving
back and forth freely, it won't allow the "T" valve to do its thing and
allow the main piston to withdraw to the rest position (all the way back),
with the brakes off.

It sounds like it (control valve) works fine when you apply the brakes; but,
when you release the brakes, the pressure in the output line is not causing
the control valve to return to its rest position, which it is supposed to
do.  This causes a full vacuum on both sides of the piston, which is the
rest position. When you turn off the engine, the vacuum goes away; and the
main piston is forced back by the big spring, thereby releasing the
hydraulic lock (brakes on).
 
The obvious questions would be:

Were all the seals put on in the proper direction? Were the seats cleaned
and smooth where the "T" handle valves sit?

Is the rubber grommet at the end of the transfer tube allowing air in?

Did you hone the three bores smooth?

Any scoring in the bores?

It doesn't sound like the main piston is hanging up (usually a big problem),
because when you turn it off the spring pushes it back just fine.

When I did my servo, I sent the "can" off to have it Teflon coated on the
inside to keep it nice and slippery. It's been fine for seven years.

I do think another look at the control valve and its associated parts will
show up something.
 
Atmospheric air pressure is staying on the back side of the main piston and
should not be when the brakes are released. 

Good luck. Don't through away a perfectly good component.

Jerry Christopherson
9473187  

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Robert J. Wanty
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 6:30 AM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo

I have rebuilt my servo and when I have the engine running and put on
the brakes then let off the pedal the brakes hang up (stay on). If I
shut the engine off the brakes stay on unless I push the pedal then they
go off; any ideas or should I toss the unit and go to a dual master
cylinder which may increase my probability of not running a yellow
light?



Bob

B382001318LRXFE
_______________________________________________
jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From j.brawley at comcast.net  Mon Dec  3 20:38:23 2007
From: j.brawley at comcast.net (j.brawley at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 03:38:23 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger wiper switch connections--need help
Message-ID: <120420070338.21780.4754CBAF00066CB7000055142200750330970A04990E9D0DD206@comcast.net>

Trying to get wipers to work, just got a new dash wiper switch from SS.  I somehow lost the diagram I had made for the connections on the back of the switch.  Can anyone tell me what terminal # s the ground, Brown.light green, and Red light green connect too??  

The back of the switch has prong connections for 1,4,6, 7,and 8.

Thanks for the help, John

From j.brawley at comcast.net  Mon Dec  3 21:56:47 2007
From: j.brawley at comcast.net (j.brawley at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 04:56:47 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger wiper switch connections--need help
Message-ID: <120420070456.16015.4754DE0F0004236A00003E8F2206424613970A04990E9D0DD206@comcast.net>

Thanks Ross,

Looks like 1 is red/green, 4 is brown/ green and 6 is ground.  I think that is the way it was connected before I removed and lost my diagram.

John

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Ross" <ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net> 

> Check out this diagram. It is for a series V Alpine but the dash wiper 
> wiring is the same as are the color codes. 
> 
> Ross "Commodore Blues" Hulse 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: tigers-bounces+ross_hulse=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net 
> [mailto:tigers-bounces+ross_hulse=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of 
> j.brawley at comcast.net 
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 7:38 PM 
> To: tigers at autox.team.net 
> Subject: [Tigers] Tiger wiper switch connections--need help 
> 
> Trying to get wipers to work, just got a new dash wiper switch from SS. I 
> somehow lost the diagram I had made for the connections on the back of the 
> switch. Can anyone tell me what terminal # s the ground, Brown.light green, 
> and Red light green connect too?? 
> 
> The back of the switch has prong connections for 1,4,6, 7,and 8. 
> 
> Thanks for the help, John 
> _______________________________________________ 
> ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net 
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers 

From glowboy at starstream.net  Mon Dec  3 22:48:58 2007
From: glowboy at starstream.net (DERRICK SCHMIDT)
Date: Mon,  3 Dec 2007 21:48:58 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] FWD: 219mph in AZ
Message-ID: <200712032148.AA1401422062@mail.starstream.net>

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftAhdcmIHn8


  




________________________________________________________________
Sent via the WebMail system at mail.starstream.net

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Mon Dec  3 23:40:26 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:40:26 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] FWD: 219mph in AZ
In-Reply-To: <200712032148.AA1401422062@mail.starstream.net>
References: <200712032148.AA1401422062@mail.starstream.net>
Message-ID: <4754F65A.6070202@mayfco.com>

Couple of rich kids, eh? I wish I could claim a top speed record that 
way! Me, I have to go out on the salt, put on a funny car suit in 
August, run for at least 3 miles not more than five and be timed over 
the entire distance just to be qualified to set a record, lol. Just how 
dangerous was that stunt? A single bobble and it is all toast. Including 
the in car crew. The last guys who did a stunt like this, in England I 
think, showed the video and got caught by the police because they were 
able to identify the car and who owned it! Hooray! Street is no place 
for stunts like this. While I really don't give a rats ass about them, 
it is theother folk they might kill that ticks me off.

mayf

DERRICK SCHMIDT wrote:

>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftAhdcmIHn8
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________
>Sent via the WebMail system at mail.starstream.net
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From rjw at wengco.com  Tue Dec  4 05:11:35 2007
From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:11:35 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo
Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C566D81F@weco1.wengco.com>

Will,
Thanks I will look at that also.

Bob
B382001318LRXFE


-----Original Message-----
From: Will Seay [mailto:wseay at embarqmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:17 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo

Bob,
I've seen this problem before.  Unfortunately it was many years ago and
my
recollection of specifics is pretty vague, but here goes anyway.  The
unit
contains a spring.  As I recall, the spring is made of a piece of flat
spring metal.  If I recall correctly it's stirrup or 'C' shaped.  The
problem occurs if the spring is installed upside down - it's easy to do.
If
upside down, the spring has no effect and the valving in the servo can
lock
up.  Remedy - open the servo up and turn the spring over.

Hope this helps - Will

B382001570
___________________________
Will Seay wseay at embarqmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert J. Wanty" <rjw at wengco.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 7:29 AM
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Brake Servo


I have rebuilt my servo and when I have the engine running and put on
the brakes then let off the pedal the brakes hang up (stay on). If I
shut the engine off the brakes stay on unless I push the pedal then they
go off; any ideas or should I toss the unit and go to a dual master
cylinder which may increase my probability of not running a yellow
light?



Bob

B382001318LRXFE
_______________________________________________
wseay at embarqmail.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
_______________________________________________
rjw at wengco.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From lists at brits-n-pieces.com  Tue Dec  4 07:45:34 2007
From: lists at brits-n-pieces.com (Brits'n'Pieces (Eric Frenken))
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:45:34 +0100
Subject: [Tigers] crown & pinion wheels
Message-ID: <00d401c83684$5472ece0$fd58c6a0$@com>

Hi list,

 

I'm looking for crown and pinion wheels for Salisbury axles with ratios of
3.31, 3.08 and 2.97/2.98. If anybody has some lying around in their workshop
and is willing to part with them please gimme a shout offline.

 

Thanks

 

Eric

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Tue Dec  4 08:22:15 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:22:15 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] FWD: 219mph in AZ
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FBE@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Exactly. There are lots of tracks or other venues where that kid could
go and run his car legitimately, and get a real published record. Doing
it on the street is a good way to cause public outcry and further drive
the public's opinions of racing into the gutter.
Additionally, racing, of any sort, has rules, both for safety and to
foster competition. Claiming a record outside of a sanctioned
competition is meaningless, because who's to say that the driver didn't
stage the video? It's easy to photoshop stuff in the dark. Maybe the
speedo is miscalibrated. Lots of other reasons why there is no point to
this kind of thing.

Theo

From crabco at shaw.ca  Tue Dec  4 15:31:22 2007
From: crabco at shaw.ca (Tim Webster)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:31:22 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Sparto reverse lights.
Message-ID: <000601c836c5$6679e1a0$6400a8c0@BigBlack>

To All,

I have a nice set of Sparto reverse lights that I am considering for my early
Tiger. Unfortunately I do not have bases. I know what they look like in
general but will be needing a template in order to have a pair built from
scratch. Is there anyone who has tangled with this problem and can shed some
light on how to proceed? I have a possible line on one side in rough shape
that might be useable with a mirror image having to be made for the other
side.

My second question on the same subject is this. What is accepted as the
correct position for the lights? I have a special accessories brochure that
shows them outboard the jacking points on an early Alpine. I gather there may
be some dissenting opinions?

Regards,

Tim Webster

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Tue Dec  4 19:04:31 2007
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 21:04:31 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] FWD: 219mph in AZ
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FBE@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <000001c836e3$2da89c40$6601a8c0@Brennan>

Was the speedometer and the data readout in MPH or KPH?

Either way they're still idiots.  I did over 100MPH for a short period
between Munich and Stuttgart a bunch of years back, and will gladly
admit that that was above my comfort level.  New BMW Sedan. At least I
was in good company at the time, lots of folks going fairly fast, and it
was daylight and dry.  At one point we saw some really lurid skid marks
leading to a recently replaced section of guard rail...

Stu

From tlksrhome at comcast.net  Tue Dec  4 19:23:10 2007
From: tlksrhome at comcast.net (tlksrhome at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 02:23:10 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Series 3 GT Alpine
Message-ID: <120520070223.22476.47560B8E000A921A000057CC22070016410A0301089D9C05049B@comcast.net>

Hey listers,
  I have a Series 3 GT  I need to sell. An up-coming move and finances force me to sell this jewel.
  I completely stripped all paint inside and out and re-painted with PPG urathane,light blue, over DPLF epoxy primer. No rust anywhere. The body is mirror straight.
  It has been upgraded to a 1725 with oil cooler, and a full synchro with over-drive- both re-built and in perfect working order. New seats and interior,shocks ,brakes,brake lines etc. and  tires.  Wheels (period correct american libre).
 You may have seen the car at the last SUNI, where I took second place in modified class concourse , and first in auto-cross.
 It is a beautiful car that drives like new. I hate to part with it but----what can I say.
 I am asking 10 K for this car and would like to sell it to a list member and know it is going to a good home before I try e-bay.
 I don't have a place to post pics , so e-mail me and I can send you some.
 BTW I am keeping my Series V GT though, so I am still active, just too many cars.
 thanx for the band-width and keep ' beamin.
  Kevin Rodgers PTC Seattle(Kirkland) Wa. 206-419-1060

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of series 3 gt 006.jpg]

From alpdavegre at msn.com  Tue Dec  4 19:29:54 2007
From: alpdavegre at msn.com (DAVID GREEN)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:29:54 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] [Alpines] Series 3 GT Alpine
In-Reply-To: <120520070223.22476.47560B8E000A921A000057CC22070016410A0301089D9C05049B@comcast.net>
References: <120520070223.22476.47560B8E000A921A000057CC22070016410A0301089D9C05049B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BLU120-W22A206B8C8CC5C81A31A02DE6E0@phx.gbl>

All Listers,

I have seen Kevin's car at Suni 4. It is all he says. Very beautiful
restoration. I would get it but at 15 Sunbeam cars. I am maxed out! good to
hear you are still saying Sunbeam, Kevin!
Dave Green> From: tlksrhome at comcast.net> To: alpines at autox.team.net> Date:
Wed, 5 Dec 2007 02:23:10 +0000> CC: tigers at autox.team.net> Subject: [Alpines]
Series 3 GT Alpine> > Hey listers,> I have a Series 3 GT I need to sell. An
up-coming move and finances force me to sell this jewel.> I completely
stripped all paint inside and out and re-painted with PPG urathane,light blue,
over DPLF epoxy primer. No rust anywhere. The body is mirror straight.> It has
been upgraded to a 1725 with oil cooler, and a full synchro with over-drive-
both re-built and in perfect working order. New seats and interior,shocks
,brakes,brake lines etc. and tires. Wheels (period correct american libre).>
You may have seen the car at the last SUNI, where I took second place in
modified class concourse , and first in auto-cross.> It is a beautiful car
that drives like new. I hate to part with it but----what can I say.> I am
asking 10 K for this car and would like to sell it to a list member and know
it is going to a good home before I try e-bay.> I don't have a place to post
pics , so e-mail me and I can send you some.> BTW I am keeping my Series V GT
though, so I am still active, just too many cars.> thanx for the band-width
and keep ' beamin.> Kevin Rodgers PTC Seattle(Kirkland) Wa. 206-419-1060> >
[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
series 3 gt 006.jpg]> _______________________________________________>
alpdavegre at msn.com> > Alpines at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/alpines

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Tue Dec  4 21:22:30 2007
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:22:30 EST
Subject: [Tigers] FWD: 219mph in AZ
Message-ID: <c02.2774c2b0.34878186@aol.com>

Ditto

Moonstone


**************************************
Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest products.

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From modtiger at comcast.net  Tue Dec  4 22:59:27 2007
From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:59:27 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] 219mph in AZ
In-Reply-To: <4754F65A.6070202@mayfco.com>
References: <200712032148.AA1401422062@mail.starstream.net>
	<4754F65A.6070202@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20071204213831.025b7dc8@comcast.net>

At 10:40 PM 12/3/2007, you wrote:
>Couple of rich kids, eh? I wish I could claim a top speed record that
>way! Me, I have to go out on the salt, put on a funny car suit in
>August, run for at least 3 miles not more than five and be timed over
>the entire distance just to be qualified to set a record, lol. Just how
>dangerous was that stunt? A single bobble and it is all toast. Including
>the in car crew. The last guys who did a stunt like this, in England I
>think, showed the video and got caught by the police because they were
>able to identify the car and who owned it! Hooray! Street is no place
>for stunts like this. While I really don't give a rats ass about them,
>it is theother folk they might kill that ticks me off.
>
>mayf

Far as I can tell, the Silver State Challenge 
www.silverstateclassic.com is still an active venue and it is not 
that far from Arizona.  They have an unlimited class which the Lambo 
ought to work quite well in.  It may not have the history and record 
setting status of the SCTA but it certainly would give some 
reasonable control over the worst danger factors.  I'd just consider 
the  referenced video a further proof of the Darwin Theory.  I'd 
consider the average age of the participants at Bonneville, who've 
been doing this for years and years, and how many attempts the Lambo 
crew will get before the inevitable news story.  BTW, I just watched 
the Nat Geographic show on this years salt runs.  Nicely done.


Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
www.tigerengineering.net

From Carmods at aol.com  Wed Dec  5 08:01:25 2007
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:01:25 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Sparto reverse lights.
Message-ID: <c43.218669e6.34881745@aol.com>

Hi Tim,
By coincidence, Rick Lara and I have considered the idea of recreating the  
base for the Sparto reverse lights if there is a demand. In our study,  there 
appears to be three generations of lights, each iteration having cost  
reductions from the previous design. The first design has a 3/32 gasket  between the 
light and the base. In the second iteration, the die cast base fits  flush 
against the light without a gasket and is bolted to the rear panel  with #10 
studs. The third design that we have seen is attached to the panel  with sheet 
metal screws. The design of the first and  second lights look identical from the 
outside, but the design three  has a shorter eyebrow over the lens.
 
I have built a prototype base that fits to the first design. Tom Ehrhart  has 
graciously lent us a sample of the other two lights and I am in the process  
of making a prototype that fits all three designs. 
 
Rick is sending out the following notice to several Sunbeam clubs to see  
what the interest in the Sparto bases is, so if you are interested, please  
respond to Rick . If there is a sufficient  interest I  will build some. Even 
though the Sparto back-up lights are a very nice  addition to an early Tiger or 
Alpine, we expect an extremely low volume due to  their rarity, so these will be 
hand made to look like the originals. If any  of you would like to see 
pictures of what I am talking about, send me a note to  _Carmods at aol.com._ 
(mailto:Carmods at aol.com.)  They are also the only  back-up lights shown in the Book of 
Norman.
 
 My research tells me that the lights are located 11" from the  centerline of 
the vehicle and the bottom of light base is located at the start  of the 
lower radius of the panel.
  
 
 SPARTO CHROME BACK-UP LIGHTS
 
Do you own a pair of the rare chrome Sunbeam Sparto back-up lights but  are 
missing the second part of the chrome housing that mounts to the rear  valance? 
 Plans are being made to reproduce the part if demand is  sufficient.  I 
would like pictures of your lights (especially where  the missing piece attaches 
to your lights) there are three different  versions of them.  Also, since cost 
is a consideration, what amount would  you be willing to pay for them?
 
Contact:  Rick Lara at _Lara at 2580@sbcgolbal.net_ 
(mailto:Lara at 2580@sbcgolbal.net) 
(586) 247-0156








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From mrlau at charter.net  Wed Dec  5 08:13:18 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:13:18 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] 219mph in AZ
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20071204213831.025b7dc8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20071205151216.YDXU14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

At 10:40 PM 12/3/2007, you wrote:
>Couple of rich kids, eh? I wish I could claim a top speed record that
>way! Me, I have to go out on the salt, put on a funny car suit in
>August, run for at least 3 miles not more than five and be timed over
>the entire distance just to be qualified to set a record, lol. Just how
>dangerous was that stunt? A single bobble and it is all toast. Including
>the in car crew. The last guys who did a stunt like this, in England I
>think, showed the video and got caught by the police because they were
>able to identify the car and who owned it! Hooray! Street is no place
>for stunts like this. While I really don't give a rats ass about them,
>it is theother folk they might kill that ticks me off.
>
>mayf

Far as I can tell, the Silver State Challenge 
www.silverstateclassic.com is still an active venue and it is not 
that far from Arizona.  They have an unlimited class which the Lambo 
ought to work quite well in.  It may not have the history and record 
setting status of the SCTA but it certainly would give some 
reasonable control over the worst danger factors.  I'd just consider 
the  referenced video a further proof of the Darwin Theory.  I'd 
consider the average age of the participants at Bonneville, who've 
been doing this for years and years, and how many attempts the Lambo 
crew will get before the inevitable news story.  BTW, I just watched 
the Nat Geographic show on this years salt runs.  Nicely done.


Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
www.tigerengineering.net


Tom,
I think the difference is when you race we know you did what you say because
it is sanctioned and you care about your reputation.  Who knows if these
kids actually did this?  It seems to me that the lights on the side weren't
going by fast enough for any 200mph.  You have an idea of how fast the speed
was in perspective to how high the lights are and I would guess in the
nature of 90 or 100.  The only time it appeared fast was when it went by
from the outside.  That is because this could have been sped up on film
without it being detected.  In the car, other things would have looked wrong
if sped up.  Also it was bumpy enough that they might have gone airborne at
the speed suggested. Every day someone comes up with some BS like this and I
am generally pessimistic. Put it on the net and I just don't buy it.  That's
why claims like these are always more or higher or more fantastic than
normal. Cause they aren't true. --Bill 

From banana111 at msn.com  Wed Dec  5 22:12:45 2007
From: banana111 at msn.com (Brent Edinger)
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:12:45 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Silver State Classic
Message-ID: <BLU120-DAV3CAF907B4701FF79FAE34F76F0@phx.gbl>

Has anyone run the silver state classic in a Tiger? If so what class did they
run and how did they do?

                Brent Edinger  B9471023




Far as I can tell, the Silver State Challenge
www.silverstateclassic.com<http://www.silverstateclassic.com/> is still an
active venue and it is not
that far from Arizona.  They have an unlimited class which the Lambo
ought to work quite well in.  It may not have the history and record
setting status of the SCTA but it certainly would give some
reasonable control over the worst danger factors.  I'd just consider
the  referenced video a further proof of the Darwin Theory.  I'd
consider the average age of the participants at Bonneville, who've
been doing this for years and years, and how many attempts the Lambo
crew will get before the inevitable news story.  BTW, I just watched
the Nat Geographic show on this years salt runs.  Nicely done.


Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
www.tigerengineering.net<http://www.tigerengineering.net/>

From ascott at globalplastics.co.zw  Wed Dec  5 22:29:15 2007
From: ascott at globalplastics.co.zw (Athena Scott)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:29:15 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Re:  steering column
Message-ID: <20071206053924.DC1D81879C8@autox.team.net>

Hi there

Received copy of this email.  Would it be possible for you to let me have
the MS-WORD doc you wrote?

Many thanks, Athena

 

  _____  

From: Athena Scott [mailto:ascott at globalplastics.co.zw] 
Sent: 04 December 2007 08:54
To: ascott at globalplastics.co.zw
Subject: Fw: Re: [Tigers] steering column

 


 

 

-------Original Message-------

 

From: 

Date: 04/12/2007 08:01:41

To: 

Subject: Re: [Tigers] steering column

 

Barry,

       Yes, I have rebuilt two Tiger Steering Columns for Gary Haslip and

over 170 to date.  If you can open an MS-WORD attachment, I will send you an

article I wrote about ten years ago on the process.  Its been printed in the
CAT,

STOA, TEAE (twice) and PTC Newsletters.  Thanks for the inquiry,

Jim Leach    Pacific Tiger Club     Seattle (member since 1976)

 

 

 

**************************************

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(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

_______________________________________________

ascott at globalplastics.co.zw

 

Tigers at autox.team.net

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

 

 



 

 

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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Dec  6 11:55:37 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:55:37 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Silver State Classic
In-Reply-To: <BLU120-DAV3CAF907B4701FF79FAE34F76F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU120-DAV3CAF907B4701FF79FAE34F76F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <475845A9.2070503@mayfco.com>

This morning I went through all of the Silver State results for the past 
10 years. They always show the standing of every car that enters, but, 
sadly, there are no Sunbeam entries.  So maybe one of you..?  My 
straight line car is not up to that. Just so everyone knows how it 
works, you pick a car speed to run against. The unlimited class is balls 
out, but, the other speed categories is 95 mph to 180mph.  The slower 
calsses are 5 mph apart while the faster ones are 10 miles per hour 
apart. When you pick a speed to run against you are trying to match that 
speed exactly which is an average speed for the entire 90 miles. So if 
you pick the 150 class you need to average 150 for 90 miles. As I 
understand it there is a trap for an intermediate speed along the way. 
There are also a 1 mile acceleration and a time to speeds all the way up 
to 180 mph. A Mitsu Evo claimed the 0 - 180 mph time at 19 seconds and 
change last year. I suspect it wasn't stock, lol.

mayf
Brent Edinger wrote:

>Has anyone run the silver state classic in a Tiger? If so what class did they
>run and how did they do?
>
>                Brent Edinger  B9471023

From bobbridgeford at msn.com  Thu Dec  6 14:55:14 2007
From: bobbridgeford at msn.com (Robert Bridgeford)
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:55:14 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Silver State Classic
In-Reply-To: <BLU120-DAV3CAF907B4701FF79FAE34F76F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F401B69609CE1BBB31DBA54AA6F0@phx.gbl>

I have run the Silver State several times in a Corvette.  The only reason I 
wouldn't run it in my Tiger is that the car woud need to be run in a fairly 
slow class ( Like 110)  unless you were prepared to make substantial 
modifications.  The gearing is too short.  Coollng is likely to be an issue, 
and it could effect more than just engine coolant, with problems  with heat 
to the fuel pump and lines and likely the differential.  Running close to 
flat out for 45 minutes is tough on a machine.

That said, there are always plenty of older cars with substantial infusions 
of cash and new technology on the scene. The Silver State folks insist that 
you pass a safety inspection for tires, crash protection and mechanical 
soundness, but there are no particular requirements that inhibit 
modifications.   Past competitors have included a couple of  Panamerica 
Lincolns from the fifties as well as clones of the same.  Panteras run in 
almost every race and those cars make a Tiger look reliable by comparison!

I think it would be teffific if some of the Tiger folks would start to put 
together a SS effort and show up a couple times a year!

Best,

Bob in Sisters





Bob Bridgeford
541 549 9539
Sisters OR 97759

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  8 12:24:05 2007
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:24:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
Message-ID: <851593.22983.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm now much less sympathetic to the situation SAAC is in.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071208/clsa003.html?.v=27 

From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Dec  8 12:45:34 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:45:34 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
Message-ID: <c7c.1b8d4810.348c4e5e@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/8/2007 2:24:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
gswaybright at yahoo.com writes:

I'm now  much less sympathetic to the situation SAAC is in.



Ditto



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From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Dec  8 12:55:47 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 11:55:47 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
In-Reply-To: <851593.22983.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <851593.22983.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <475AF6C3.80106@SoCal.rr.com>

Stephen,

What a quandary for us Tiger owners.  The SoCal branch of the 
organization accepts Tiger automobiles and owners as full members.  They 
used to have great concourse events at Woodley Park, Encino CA (until 
the city wanted horrendous insurance for the events).  Used to see Jay 
Leno there at every concourse.

Quandary.  What to do with the membership I THOUGHT was accredited by 
Shelby, and non-profit, like all good clubs.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Stephen Waybright wrote:

>I'm now much less sympathetic to the situation SAAC is in.
>
>http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071208/clsa003.html?.v=27 
>_______________________________________________
>slaifman at socal.rr.com
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From jimdamelio at cox.net  Sat Dec  8 12:56:28 2007
From: jimdamelio at cox.net (Jim D'Amelio)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 14:56:28 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
In-Reply-To: <c7c.1b8d4810.348c4e5e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <OPEPINKPGDPLMNOHKOIOKEAEINAA.jimdamelio@cox.net>

Sounds like there was some dirty dealings going on and someone was making
lots of money.  Doesn't look like the Sunbeam community or the Shelby Dodge
club will have any problems with Shelby.


In a message dated 12/8/2007 2:24:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gswaybright at yahoo.com writes:

I'm now  much less sympathetic to the situation SAAC is in.



Ditto



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products.
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_______________________________________________
jimdamelio at cox.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Sat Dec  8 16:52:35 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:52:35 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
References: <OPEPINKPGDPLMNOHKOIOKEAEINAA.jimdamelio@cox.net>
Message-ID: <016101c839f5$684237c0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

  Just a thought. To what extent have the Sunbeam Tiger clubs considered
establishing the $1.00 linkage to Shelby American? I'm not sure how it would
all fit in (or even be accepted) but it seems like an opportunity that
shouldn't slip away. Like I said, it's just a thought, but one that might be
worthy of consideration.

Tom Witt

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Sat Dec  8 20:27:53 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 22:27:53 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
Message-ID: <cd5.1ff1bcf7.348cbab9@aol.com>

Shelby's claims are just that, "claims".
 
More is going to be revealed and more accusations will be made by both  
"sides"...eventually the dust will settle. But, there's no doubt in my mind that  
Shelby is interested in one thing and one thing only...maximizing the dollars 
to  Shelby. Some things never change :-)
 
Of course, Kopec and his crew aren't exactly sympathetic characters, either  
LOL.



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From mrlau at charter.net  Sat Dec  8 20:40:21 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:40:21 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Shelby speaks out about SAAC
Message-ID: <20071209033925.FNGO17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

It seems to me that Carroll is about 85 years old.  I doubt if he is
interested in maximizing anything but his age at this time, hoping for at
least one or two more years. -- Bill --


Shelby's claims are just that, "claims".
 
More is going to be revealed and more accusations will be made by both  
"sides"...eventually the dust will settle. But, there's no doubt in my mind
that  
Shelby is interested in one thing and one thing only...maximizing the
dollars 
to  Shelby. Some things never change :-)
 
Of course, Kopec and his crew aren't exactly sympathetic characters, either

LOL.

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Sat Dec  8 20:56:16 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 22:56:16 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
Message-ID: <d08.246ac09a.348cc160@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/8/2007 7:40:04 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
mrlau at charter.net writes:

It seems  to me that Carroll is about 85 years old.  I doubt if he is
interested  in maximizing anything but his age at this time, hoping for at
least one or  two more years. -- Bill --






I agree, at his age and with his life achievement, that's a likely  
assumption. But, his actions indicate otherwise...heck, he didn't start suing  people 
until after age 75 and a few transplants :-)
 
Shelby has always been about the deal and the dollar. 



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
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From Landcmitch at aol.com  Sat Dec  8 21:47:54 2007
From: Landcmitch at aol.com (Landcmitch at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 23:47:54 EST
Subject: [Tigers] British Rubber
Message-ID: <cd5.1ff29980.348ccd7a@aol.com>

Does anyone out there have a magic method of softening and preserving forty  
year-old English rubber, namely grommets and plugs?  Some of mine is  intact, 
not cracked, but has gotten very hard.
 
Charlie



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From ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net  Sat Dec  8 22:27:50 2007
From: ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net (Ross)
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:27:50 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
In-Reply-To: <d08.246ac09a.348cc160@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002a01c83a24$3ddb8750$6600a8c0@your9d609cd8ac>

Say what you want, if I were Shelby I would feel I deserved the recognition
both public and financial that I earned.  I would be unhappy if some folks
were trying to cash in on some of that fame. Think about it in terms of
someone using your credit card.

Ross "Commodore Blues" Hulse

PS I got my "new" Tiger the day before Thanksgiving and it came with a
cracked crossmember. So, the name still fits first a fire and now this. :0

From rande at thecia.net  Sun Dec  9 07:24:41 2007
From: rande at thecia.net (rande)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 09:24:41 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby and SAAC
Message-ID: <475bfaa9.5aaf.0@thecia.net>

I thought if I waited long enough, we'd hear from someone with a little less
sympathy for Ole Shel, and that's genuinely OK.

Just personally, I think SAAC and Rick Kopec have had a great ride, considering
the cars are called Shelbys, and not Kopecs, and I hope no one is surprised
that at some point, Shelby or his family might want control of the biggest national
club supporting Shelby cars. Rick is a smart guy, and he must have seen this
coming. There's the added factor that SAAC was presumably run as a for-profit
enterprise, not the dominant funding type for most US sports car clubs.


Also personally, I have no illusions that owning a Tiger places me in the Shelby
group of owners. I know what the Shelby connection is, and it's less important
than the Jensen tie-in, and I don't go around looking for Jensen emblems for
my car.

There's plenty to commend Shelby for in the Mustang and Cobra realm, starting
with the latest GTH / Shelby GT coupes that, as a package, are the best sorted
out Mustangs right now. As for the Shelby Cobra 289, it's still my favorite
sports car, 43 years on.

Who gets the credit for Tigers. The usual suspects: Ian Garrad, John Panks,
the Rootes family,Jensen engineers, current keepers of the flame T.Hall, S.
Alcala, Buck Trippel, Sunbeam Specialties and Classic Sunbeam, NORM (Must I
tell you which one?), and the various US, Canadian, and UK clubs, and (as PBS
is fond of saying) list subscribers like you.


Rande

From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com  Sun Dec  9 12:00:01 2007
From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy))
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:00:01 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Sparto lights
Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF0819A3F1@norn32.d30.intra>

Listers,

John Logan is looking at reproducing the mounting bases for the Sparto
lights for Tigers and Alpines. As this piece is a significant amount of
work he is looking to gauge how many people might like these to consider
a production run. As many of us have scored the lights off of Ebay sans
the bases it is an opportunity to obtain these. They are unique right
and left and require quite a bit of fabrication.



I am looking for some help with photos of the original bases and perhaps
original mounting instructions. A photo or scan of the instructions
would be great as John is working from scratch. I do know that Bud
Williams has an original set but have been unable to get a hold of him
for this. Any others out there that could provide photos of the
installation either on the car or of the parts dismounted. It would be
great to have original mounting measurements as they do not seem to
exist on the net at this point.



Best Regards,

Tim Ronak
Services Consultant

Akzo Nobel Coatings
23961 Via El Rocio
Mission Viejo, CA 92691

Bus: 949-305-5393
Fax: 425-955-6268
Cell: 949-289-3357
email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com
Personal email: timronak at cox.net

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 17:05:44 2007
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:05:44 +1100
Subject: [Tigers] ebay tiger
Message-ID: <d86d088a0712091605m2f96090eh8c56867ccb8ad90d@mail.gmail.com>

Item number: 200182385190
1965  Other Makes : SUNBEAM TIGER

OK, so its being listed as a 65 MKI, has round corners and correct VIN
for that, but has a IA style soft top setup, anyone know the history
of the car? The rivets are obviously wrong but thats not saying much.

-- 
Regards

Michael King

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Sun Dec  9 18:34:08 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 20:34:08 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby and SAAC
Message-ID: <cc6.20b0744f.348df190@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/9/2007 6:25:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
rande at thecia.net writes:

Just  personally, I think SAAC and Rick Kopec have had a great ride,  
considering
the cars are called Shelbys, and not Kopecs, and I hope no one  is surprised
that at some point, Shelby or his family might want control of  the biggest 
national
club supporting Shelby cars. 


 
I think something needs to be pointed out, here...
 
Back in the day, once the Cobra was no longer competitive and the Shelby  
Mustang no longer produced by Ford (and the royalties had stopped), Shelby  
couldn't get clear of Ford, the Cobra and the whole scene quickly enough, moving  
on to focus on his other businesses. He had zero interest in any "legacy", 
based  on his actions, ultimately moving on to form a "relationship" with Chrysler 
to  rejuvenate his cash flow. Remember, this was a point in time when nobody 
really  cared all that much about his cars, heck, you could pick up a Cobra 
for  $3-4,000 and a GT350 or 500 for about half that.  

SAAC was formed about this time, by a group that truly  enjoyed the cars and 
wanted to preserve the history, stop the practice of  "cloning" GT350/500's 
and provide a venue for enthusiasts to get  together and use the cars. And they 
were very successful in building the club,  pioneering a number of "best 
practices" which many car clubs have emulated and  also creating the template for 
the open track event which has become so wildly  popular. Shelby still had very 
little interaction with SAAC or Shelby owners, at  this point.
 
Fast forward to the later '80s, the Cobra is now worth a ton of money, the  
GT350/500 are starting to be seen as more "collectible" (particularly the early 
 GT350) and Shelby sees that SAAC has become a successful business  
enterprise...so, he begins to get more involved, mostly through appearing at  various 
events and signing his name for money for the foundation.
 
Now, twenty years later, anything with the Shelby name on it is worth big  
dollars...scratch that, anything Shelby was involved in early in his car  
building career is worth big dollars, in large part due to the efforts of SAAC!  At 
the same time, all the other "stuff" that Shelby did subsequent to the  
Ford/Cobra days has very limited appeal and negligible dollar value,  comparatively. 
So, what does Shelby do? He decides to capitalize on the work  that SAAC has 
done, work that started at a time when Shelby himself had zero  interest or 
involvement.
 
So, while I'm not saying that Kopec and his crew are wonderful, altruistic  
folks or that Shelby's vision and legacy should be in any way overlooked, I am  
saying that it isn't a simple matter of an older man trying to retake what is 
 "rightfully his" before his time on this earth is over...like they say, just 
 follow the money ;-)



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products.
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From CoolVT at aol.com  Sun Dec  9 20:10:16 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:10:16 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby and SAAC
Message-ID: <d2c.19724f5b.348e0818@aol.com>

Just  personally, I think SAAC and Rick Kopec have had a great  ride,  
considering
the cars are called Shelbys, and not Kopecs,  and I hope no one  is 
 
If the letters that we've seen floating back and forth are the  truth...   
They supposedly have a contract.  Shelby asks for  financial records that he's 
entitled to in the contract.  They won't turn  them over or even answer his 
letter.........if I was Shelby I'd have my back up  too.  






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From mmichels at socal.rr.com  Sun Dec  9 22:04:27 2007
From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels)
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 21:04:27 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] ebay tiger
References: <d86d088a0712091605m2f96090eh8c56867ccb8ad90d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <014101c83aea$243b3f40$6401a8c0@delldimension>

I'm curious about that cast aluminum air cleaner with Tiger logo. Does 
anybody know the source? Was it an LAT item?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "michael king" <michael.s.king at gmail.com>
To: "TigersSent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:05 PM
Subject: [Tigers] ebay tiger


> Item number: 200182385190
> 1965  Other Makes : SUNBEAM TIGER
>
> OK, so its being listed as a 65 MKI, has round corners and correct VIN
> for that, but has a IA style soft top setup, anyone know the history
> of the car? The rivets are obviously wrong but thats not saying much.
>
> -- 
> Regards
>
> Michael King
> _______________________________________________

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Sun Dec  9 22:10:58 2007
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:10:58 +1100
Subject: [Tigers] ebay tiger
In-Reply-To: <014101c83aea$243b3f40$6401a8c0@delldimension>
References: <d86d088a0712091605m2f96090eh8c56867ccb8ad90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<014101c83aea$243b3f40$6401a8c0@delldimension>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0712092110n6dbb97ffg972443a274549e66@mail.gmail.com>

The finned air cleaner with tiger not was an LAT item, over the years
a few re-runs have been done.

On 10/12/2007, Mike Michels <mmichels at socal.rr.com> wrote:
> I'm curious about that cast aluminum air cleaner with Tiger logo. Does
> anybody know the source? Was it an LAT item?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "michael king" <michael.s.king at gmail.com>
> To: "TigersSent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:05 PM
> Subject: [Tigers] ebay tiger
>
>
> > Item number: 200182385190
> > 1965  Other Makes : SUNBEAM TIGER
> >
> > OK, so its being listed as a 65 MKI, has round corners and correct VIN
> > for that, but has a IA style soft top setup, anyone know the history
> > of the car? The rivets are obviously wrong but thats not saying much.
> >
> > --
> > Regards
> >
> > Michael King
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>


-- 
Regards

Michael King

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Sun Dec  9 23:00:18 2007
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:00:18 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby and SAAC
Message-ID: <d04.2261ce3b.348e2ff2@aol.com>

Some more dark clouds...A friend of mine and very fine pro photographer just 
received a cease and desist letter from Ford and Shelby. He was asked by many 
enthusiasts in our community to create a calendar of some of the best 
collector and custom cars in Fresno. He produced the calendar and sold it for $10.00. 
None of the images contained script such as Ford, Shelby, Chevrolet, 
Chrysler...etc.... Ford claims that a picture of a highly customized Chevy powered 52 
Ford pickup was their intellectual property and was recognizable as a Ford and 
he therefore had no right to use the picture in the calendar even though the 
owner requested a calendar that featured his customized P.U. The threat from 
Ford indicated that a further violation would cost him $200,000.00 per incident.

Two months ago a well known VW shop owner was forced to remove a picture of 
his custom bug from his business cards. All VW repair facilities in this area 
were forced to remove VW from all of their signage.

Recently BMW and Chrysler have begun to act much the same way. How does this 
bode for those of us with "pentstastars," on their Tigers?

I've taken the script from a vintage Merc Marauder and from my CJ Torino and 
sent them back to Ford telling them no more Fords in this family and all Ford 
script was being removed and would never be put back on said cars. 

No GT40 badged remake because of Fords attitude and no profit from boring and 
uninspired manufacturer.

Now, do you think that Shelby might be a partner with Ford in all this 
scatology?

Moonstone

Moonstone


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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Sun Dec  9 23:35:28 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:35:28 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby and SAAC
References: <d04.2261ce3b.348e2ff2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003801c83af6$db736dc0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

In response to Dr. Moonstone's email:

If you haven't seen the documentary "The Corporation,"  do so. It presents
an Americam company owning the water rights to a city in Bolivia. And...,
"water rights" are defined as including the water that falls from the sky.
Hence, it was illegal for the people of that city to collect rain water!
 Anyway, I don't want to get this thread too far off the Tiger track, but
the story is fitting.
Tom Witt

From ascott at globalplastics.co.zw  Sun Dec  9 23:43:17 2007
From: ascott at globalplastics.co.zw (Athena Scott)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:43:17 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] Ford 289 Motor in South Africa
Message-ID: <20071210065858.BEA611879EC@autox.team.net>

Is there anyone in South Africa who can help?  I am looking for a 289 Ford
Motor 5-bolt bell housing for my Tiger.

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Mon Dec 10 00:01:37 2007
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:01:37 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby and SAAC
Message-ID: <d44.198b0adf.348e3e51@aol.com>

Didn't we just finish an intense discussion of someone using the Tiger name 
in a new production vehicle? In light of the panic over that issue and the 
current discussion of Shelby the comments were relevant. Have seen the "The 
Corporation," and the current doings of Ford and Chrysler should concern all of us.

Thanks
Moonstone


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hottest products.

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From FHSLOTH13 at aol.com  Mon Dec 10 07:32:49 2007
From: FHSLOTH13 at aol.com (FHSLOTH13 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:32:49 EST
Subject: [Tigers] ebay tiger
Message-ID: <bfc.2633d160.348ea811@aol.com>

I purchased one of those air cleaners from Tiger Tom many years ago. Each  
has a number in the casting, mine is #81 I think. That's all I know about  them. 
Maybe Tom can shed some light on this thread.
 
Fred Baum
9470768



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From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Mon Dec 10 08:29:54 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:29:54 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby and SAAC
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FE9@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

One way to approach this is to establish a Sunbeam automobile (or maybe
Rootes group, to make the umbrella as big as possible) society whose
express purpose it is to manage trademark issues. This society would
need to file for trademark registration of all the Rootes brands it
wanted to control. It would then be the responsibility of this
organization to go after anyone publishing pictures or other material
related to Rootes group products, and ensure that they were aware that
publishing pictures of the Rootes trademarked vehicles required a
license. The organization could then play trading cards with any other
interested parties: You can use ours if we can use yours.

I would guess that some of this stuff, as it relates to Shelby, might
fall under his $1 license fee. If that's true then I would commend him
for taking a reasonable stance; he wants (or needs) to be in control of
the way his brand gets published, but by charging a minimal license fee
he's not actually making it very difficult for anyone to publish
material featuring his products.

The thing about trademark enforcement (at least in the US) is that it
HAS to be done, or else you lose the right to control your brand, and
this is most likely why the cease and desist letters are flying. I would
guess that some enterprising individual got a court decision to
invalidate someone's trademark based on non-enforcement, and that has
all the big names running scared.

Theo

From mark.rense at ge.com  Mon Dec 10 09:37:42 2007
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:37:42 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
In-Reply-To: <c7c.1b8d4810.348c4e5e@aol.com>
References: <c7c.1b8d4810.348c4e5e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A034DD9C6@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

I was very fortunate to have grown up in the '60's with Tigers and a
CSX3000-series Cobra in the garage (the Cobra was sold within a month of
my 16th birthday, go figure!) The Old Man raced in a few SCCA events but
mostly did club track days at Nelsons ledges and Mid-Ohio. I was the
crew...and I considered Carroll Shelby my patron saint. I got to meet
Carroll a couple of times, still have the Lemans posters he signed.
Since that time I have owned numerous Tigers and a forlorned GT-350H,
but I never felt the need to join SAAC. Many years have passed and that
adolescent reverence has subsided, but not the respect for the man and
what he did.

A few months ago, I was pleasantly strong-armed by a couple friends to
join SAAC because, as they put it, the entire future of Shelby cars was
on the line. There was talk of shutting down the club and suing officers
and members, echoing the actions BMW tried to impose on the MOA and RA
motorcycle owners clubs a few years ago. My gut told me that was not the
case here, but resistance is futile, as they say, so I finally sent in
my money last fall.

Now after reading some of the threads both here and on the other sites,
I am not sure I should have wasted my $47. I well understand the need
for corporations to manage and defend their IP, and that includes
trademarks and related material. There are both compelling commercial
and legal reasons for this, something I deal with from the Far East on a
daily basis. It appears to me that SAAC has pretty much squandered its
rights to the Shelby name and has now, if you will, poked a stick at the
800 pound gorilla. If a tenth of the stories about selling off Shelby's
stuff and of using club dues for private purpose is true, then it is a
real shame we as members got duped.

I am not sure who will win this fight, but I should have followed my gut
and taken the corner of my patron saint.

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: CoolVT at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 2:46 PM
To: gswaybright at yahoo.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC

In a message dated 12/8/2007 2:24:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gswaybright at yahoo.com writes:

I'm now  much less sympathetic to the situation SAAC is in.

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 10 10:00:40 2007
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:00:40 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
References: <851593.22983.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<475AF6C3.80106@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV147BD727A9DCF84AAA941AC16B0@phx.gbl>

In the article, it sounded like he was trying to allow the individual clubs 
to remain affiliated through the $1 arrangement, so maybe your SoCal branch 
will choose to become directly affiliated.

I have heard that Shelby in the past few years has become very aggressive in 
enforcing his Trademark rights.  At the time, everybody in China was making 
"Shelby GT350/500" emblems for cheap and he wasn't getting a cut.  Now that 
there has been some enforcement, It is amazing if you see how much the trunk 
letters for "Mustang" cost vs the same Trunk letters "Shelby" cost.  So I 
would guess that some of those licensing agreements are not $1 when you 
start selling things and making money with his name on it.

I have also seen a few cars on Ebay get relisted, because someone from the 
Shelby camp is watching and clones that don't have licensing will be asked 
to have their ads removed.

But I also looked at what I believed was the Carroll Shelby personal site, 
and if you want to get your GT350 dash autographed by him, no problem, send 
it in along with a donation to one of the two big charities that he supports 
and he will autograph it for you, and I think everyone knows that he has 
probably autographed about twice as many dashes as were ever originally 
produced.  In comparison, I think if you wanted some autographed sports 
memorabilia from a former sports star, that most of those dollars aren't 
charity dollars but go to support the aging athlete instead.  So he seems 
more generous than many that have a marketable name.

So if I were to make a guess, he may just be trying to keep his trademark 
from going into the public domain from lack of enforcement (didn't the 
minilight brand go into public domain from lack of enforcement?).  And if I 
were to guess, he may leave some or all of his trademarks in trust to one of 
those charities when he dies, so he probably needs to make an effort to make 
sure his trademarks aren't in public domain when he dies.

While many of his other efforts may be about shoring up his trademark while 
he is still around, I would assume that the SAAC battle is probably more 
over money than anything though.  I would assume that he hasn't been around 
this long because he is a bad business man.  And if someone else is making 
money off his name, I am sure he wants his cut too.


Steve



> Stephen,
>
> What a quandary for us Tiger owners.  The SoCal branch of the
> organization accepts Tiger automobiles and owners as full members.  They
> used to have great concourse events at Woodley Park, Encino CA (until
> the city wanted horrendous insurance for the events).  Used to see Jay
> Leno there at every concourse.
>
> Quandary.  What to do with the membership I THOUGHT was accredited by
> Shelby, and non-profit, like all good clubs.
>
> Steve
>
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
>
>
>
> Stephen Waybright wrote:
>
>>I'm now much less sympathetic to the situation SAAC is in.
>>
>>http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071208/clsa003.html?.v=27

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 10 11:27:13 2007
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:27:13 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] British Rubber
References: <cd5.1ff29980.348ccd7a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV17BB41605C8F961D37C17BC16B0@phx.gbl>

I'm not sure how effective it would be in restoring parts that are already 
hardened, but on my motorcycle, there are a couple of rubber grommets that 
hold on the side covers, and in order to keep them in decent shape, I use a 
silicone based grease.  It makes popping those side covers on/off alot 
easier. The silicone is suppose to not negatively effect rubber and plastic. 
I think I got the idea from my scuba diving gear which uses a food grade 
silicone spray and grease.  Since I didn't believe I needed food grade, and 
the amount of grease sold at a scuba diving store is very small, I looked 
for it in autoparts stores.  I though I remember having troubling finding a 
pure silicone grease that didn't have anything else in it, but I did find 
some tubes of it at Napa, but don't remember the exact product name, other 
than I think it was a Napa branded product.

Steve





> Does anyone out there have a magic method of softening and preserving 
> forty
> year-old English rubber, namely grommets and plugs?  Some of mine is 
> intact,
> not cracked, but has gotten very hard.
>
> Charlie

From twojohnsons at cox.net  Mon Dec 10 13:31:56 2007
From: twojohnsons at cox.net (Alvin Johnson)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:31:56 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
References: <c7c.1b8d4810.348c4e5e@aol.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A034DD9C6@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c83b6b$b4f34380$f03dc048@13930193605348f>

It's about greed, not automobiles.
Shelby certainly was an innovator, but he's always beren a greedy bastard as 
well.
Seems Kopec & Co. feeding frenzy is about over. 

From sganz at pacbell.net  Mon Dec 10 13:49:36 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:49:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC
Message-ID: <780830.67379.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, and don't forget that much of the innovation from old Shel' came from the likes of other people that just worked for him that he takes lots of credit for but you often never really hear that part from him (IMO). Any-a-ways, sad state of affairs that it gets to this. 
 
Like my parents used to say to us kids when we were fighting with our siblings... "Let them kill each other"  (Then out comes the belt) 

The clubs and such are secondary to having fun with the performace automobile fanatics like many of us, I'll never let the like of this take the fun out of my hobby.

Sandy

----- Original Message ----
From: Alvin Johnson <twojohnsons at cox.net>
To: "Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)" <mark.rense at ge.com>; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:31:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Shelby speaks out about SAAC

It's about greed, not automobiles.
Shelby certainly was an innovator, but he's always beren a greedy bastard as 
well.
Seems Kopec & Co. feeding frenzy is about over. 
_______________________________________________
sganz at pacbell.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Mon Dec 10 17:03:37 2007
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:03:37 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] British Rubber
In-Reply-To: <BAY119-DAV17BB41605C8F961D37C17BC16B0@phx.gbl>
References: <cd5.1ff29980.348ccd7a@aol.com>
	<BAY119-DAV17BB41605C8F961D37C17BC16B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000c01c83b89$477e5880$64f3c04a@jerry>

Charlie,

Many years ago (1970s) A good engineering friend of mine told me that Armor-
All was good for rubber because it replaces "plasticizers" in the rubber. 
I have used it for many years on rubber but don't know if I have ever made
rubber soft and pliable again, but it is better than nothing at all.

Jerry Christopherson

9473187 

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Tigerman
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:27 PM
To: Landcmitch at aol.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] British Rubber

I'm not sure how effective it would be in restoring parts that are already 
hardened, but on my motorcycle, there are a couple of rubber grommets that 
hold on the side covers, and in order to keep them in decent shape, I use a 
silicone based grease.  It makes popping those side covers on/off alot 
easier. The silicone is suppose to not negatively effect rubber and plastic.

I think I got the idea from my scuba diving gear which uses a food grade 
silicone spray and grease.  Since I didn't believe I needed food grade, and 
the amount of grease sold at a scuba diving store is very small, I looked 
for it in autoparts stores.  I though I remember having troubling finding a 
pure silicone grease that didn't have anything else in it, but I did find 
some tubes of it at Napa, but don't remember the exact product name, other 
than I think it was a Napa branded product.

Steve





> Does anyone out there have a magic method of softening and preserving 
> forty
> year-old English rubber, namely grommets and plugs?  Some of mine is 
> intact,
> not cracked, but has gotten very hard.
>
> Charlie
_______________________________________________
jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From bamcnulty at optonline.net  Mon Dec 10 17:36:13 2007
From: bamcnulty at optonline.net (Tony McNulty)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:36:13 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] British Rubber
References: <cd5.1ff29980.348ccd7a@aol.com>
	<BAY119-DAV17BB41605C8F961D37C17BC16B0@phx.gbl>
	<000c01c83b89$477e5880$64f3c04a@jerry>
Message-ID: <000a01c83b8d$d56b5db0$0200a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

First reaction is that I'd shy away from plasticizers and "British" rubber. 
The thinking being that Brit rubber is the real stuff from trees and that 
plasticizers have to do with artificial "rubber" from oil wells.  I have a 
colleague in GB who may be familiar with what's real in products from the 
1960's -- I'll pose the question and post the answer.  Good timing, as I 
have a lot of the stuff sitting around in my garage that's in desperate need 
of restoration or replacement.

Tony Mc







----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry" <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>
To: "'Tigerman'" <Tigerman67 at hotmail.com>; <Landcmitch at aol.com>; 
<tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] British Rubber


> Charlie,
>
> Many years ago (1970s) A good engineering friend of mine told me that 
> Armor-
> All was good for rubber because it replaces "plasticizers" in the rubber.
> I have used it for many years on rubber but don't know if I have ever made
> rubber soft and pliable again, but it is better than nothing at all.
>
> Jerry Christopherson
>
> 9473187
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
> [mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf 
> Of
> Tigerman
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 12:27 PM
> To: Landcmitch at aol.com; tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] British Rubber
>
> I'm not sure how effective it would be in restoring parts that are already
> hardened, but on my motorcycle, there are a couple of rubber grommets that
> hold on the side covers, and in order to keep them in decent shape, I use 
> a
> silicone based grease.  It makes popping those side covers on/off alot
> easier. The silicone is suppose to not negatively effect rubber and 
> plastic.
>
> I think I got the idea from my scuba diving gear which uses a food grade
> silicone spray and grease.  Since I didn't believe I needed food grade, 
> and
> the amount of grease sold at a scuba diving store is very small, I looked
> for it in autoparts stores.  I though I remember having troubling finding 
> a
> pure silicone grease that didn't have anything else in it, but I did find
> some tubes of it at Napa, but don't remember the exact product name, other
> than I think it was a Napa branded product.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>> Does anyone out there have a magic method of softening and preserving
>> forty
>> year-old English rubber, namely grommets and plugs?  Some of mine is
>> intact,
>> not cracked, but has gotten very hard.
>>
>> Charlie
> _______________________________________________
> jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> _______________________________________________
> bamcnulty at optonline.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From tim at grassrootsmotorsports.com  Mon Dec 10 14:06:02 2007
From: tim at grassrootsmotorsports.com (Tim Suddard)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:06:02 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Duckbill drain
Message-ID: <236E6A98-E0EF-49ED-92D0-6EFAC2983636@grassrootsmotorsports.com>

Just an FYI. I asked Kip at Kip Motors for a duckbill drain and he  
said he didn't have any but he could make them. He did, in fact, make  
them and sent me one and while I have not put it on the car, it looks  
pretty good. While he is a friend and customer, I have No financial  
interest. I just saw know that Rick and Kurt say they no longer have  
them and I saw what they were selling for on eBay.

Kip wants $24.75 and the part number is 1206532. His site is  
kipmotor.com

Tim Suddard
Publisher:
Grassroots Motorsports
Classic Motorsports
www.GrassrootsMotorsports.com
www.ClassicMotorsports.net
Tim at grassrootsmotorsports.com
Phone: (386) 673-4148
Fax: (386) 673-6040

P.S. Tiger project keeps rolling right along. Hope to show it at the  
Ocala Ford show in January and updates are at our site.

From rande at thecia.net  Thu Dec  6 18:39:22 2007
From: rande at thecia.net (rande)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:39:22 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby announcement
Message-ID: <4758a44a.851.0@thecia.net>

 "Shelby not renewing SAACs license
Shelby not renewing SAACs license
In recent weeks, we told you about Carroll Shelby severing all ties with the
Shelby American Automobile Club, which began nearly 33 years ago, when folks
were still driving these cars on highways and byways to work.

Well, now Shelby has terminated the SAACs license. The clubs license to
operate
expires January 31, 2008, and Shelby has announced, for unknown reasons, that
he will not be renewing the license. Not only is Shelby not renewing the
license,
but SAAC has also been served with a letter from Shelbys attorney, Neil
Cummings
& Associates, on Shelbys behalf asking for the return of all documents,
materials,
registry information, financial statements and merchandise to him.

It seems like a coincidence to us that this is all coming down as Shelby
Autos
recently announced their own new club, called Team Shelby, in partnership
with
the owners of BlueOvalNews.com

The SAAC has released a statement dated November 25, 2007, which says it is
proud of its many accomplishments and is looking forward to a bright future.
One of SAACs most important missions is to protect the integrity of the
marque
against the dishonest, the revisionists and the counterfeiters. Over the
decades,
as a result of tens of thousands of volunteer man-hours, SAAC has amassed a
comprehensive data base of information on each Shelby vehicle. The SAAC
knows
a good attorney is going to cost plenty of money. It is looking for donations
to its legal fund, said national directors Ken Eber, Rick Kopec and Howard
Pardee."


The previous statement was part of the weekly Hemmings newsletter emailed
today,
much of it probably old news to this list.

I haven't weighed in on how this change in the Shelby club will affect
Tigers,
but I will now. I don't know how Carroll will embrace Tigers at this point,
but it doesn't matter to me. I don't have any illusions that my Tiger is part
of the Shelby car family.

If credit for the Tiger is due, it goes to the people on this list, it goes
to the members of STOC,STOA, CAT, TEAE,CATO, and the other clubs worldwide,
it goes to Ian Garrad and John Panks and Brian Rootes who saw the Tiger
project
through to the point that Lord Rootes OK'd it, it goes to the folks at Jensen
who contributed to a quality product for Rootes.

What's ole Shels contribution? Well, if you're also a Mustang or Shelby Cobra
289 nut, like me, PLENTY. The current Shelby GT(nee GT-H) is simply the
Mustang
Ford should have started with themselves,gads, its fun. And the Shelby Cobra
289, still my favorite sports car 40 years on.

As far as the clubs are concerned,  even if Rick Kopec prevails it's still
Shelby's
cars. Someone once commented that while Michael Jackson owned or owns rights
to Beatle music, he's still doesn't call himself Paul McCartney. Likewise,
the
cars are not called Kopec GT350's or Kopec Cobra's.

In a perfect world, Shelby and SAAC would find some common ground. Shelby and
SAAC go back 35+ years. I personally wonder who stepped on whose toes to
create
this dilemma. I also wonder why with Shelby's continued effort to control his
brand lately, why this didn't happen sooner.

Rande Bellman
B382000048

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Mon Dec 10 19:28:58 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:28:58 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby announcement
References: <4758a44a.851.0@thecia.net>
Message-ID: <009401c83b9d$964d1f00$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

One name that I would include to the list below is George Boskoff.

 He's the one who actually built the "Shell Bee" (mis-spelling intentional
to avoid lawsuit) Tiger.

>>>If credit for the Tiger is due, it goes to the people on this list, it
goes
to the members of STOC,STOA, CAT, TEAE,CATO, and the other clubs worldwide,
it goes to Ian Garrad and John Panks and Brian Rootes who saw the Tiger
project
through to the point that Lord Rootes OK'd it, it goes to the folks at
Jensen
who contributed to a quality product for Rootes.<<<

From rjw at wengco.com  Tue Dec 11 04:46:32 2007
From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:46:32 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] 7" Girling Servo Fixed
Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C566D92D@weco1.wengco.com>

Thanks for all the ideas on how to fix the brake hang up. It ended up
being the servo piston. The black grease that came with the rebuild kit
got sticky so I used some light grease that came with my sons Jeep
transmission kit and also rubbed out some suspect areas in the can with
steel wool.



Bob

B382001318LRXFE

From mtjoy at telis.org  Tue Dec 11 11:47:07 2007
From: mtjoy at telis.org (Mountjoy)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:47:07 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] upcoming Tigers United
Message-ID: <00a001c83c26$3baa4ee0$1db90c45@computer>

Hi Listers,

I am chairing Tigers United XXXI this coming June 26-29 and wanted to let you
know about it.  The event will be held in the city of Big Bear Lake, in the
San Bernardino Mountains of Southern California.


The host hotel is the Northwoods Resort, which is a full service hotel.  This
is a great place in that it is adjacent to the Village so those not wanting to
do cars 24/7 can relax and play in the Village, plus it is located two blocks
from the lake.  The hotel room rate for the event is $109. per night.  For
those wishing to arrive early or remain after TU XXXI the hotel will honor the
same rate.  http://www.northwoodsresort.com



This year I've chosen to celebrate Rootes race cars and as such already have
commitments from seven of them and another dozen or so I'm working on or have
yet to contact.  So far we have commitments for people coming from as far away
as South Africa and I'm hopeful they will share insights on those 73 South
African Tigers during one of the evening's festivities.  The event will also
be "friendly" to participants who may not yet have a Tiger or have a Tiger
that runs and drives and want to bring one of their other special interest
cars.



Registration forms should be available soon on the CAT website,
http://www.catmbr.org/Events1.htm , in CAT's January Newsletter, hopefully
other clubs' newsletters, or by contacting me directly and I'll Email the
forms to you.



Let me know if I can answer any questions...



Thanks,



Darrell

mtjoy at telis.org

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Tue Dec 11 12:17:33 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:17:33 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F54EF@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Comrades,

eBay item number 140189086032

This one is actually kinda confusing to me...seller calls it outright as
an Alger....I'm glad he's representing it correctly...but if you look
closely it has a Tiger engine bay. Maybe someone cut up a Tiger to put
the bits on this Alpine...but its odd, usually I can spot the Alpine
hidden beneath a Tiger cloak...someone put a lot of work into this car
to look like a Tiger, at least from my limited knowledge. He doesn't
provide suspension or undercarriage pics, but many of the areas on it
look Tiger legit to me. Engine bay, inner fenders, firewall.... Also the
alpine vin tag has non-factory rivets on it.

I wonder if its ever happened that a guy actually had a Tiger, maybe he
bought it without an engine and didn't know what he had, thought it was
an Alpine, so put it together like an Alpine....then I guess later
someone puts a sbf back in it...but all the time thought it was an
Alpine...or someone put an Alpine Vin on a car so save money on
insurance, and then sold it as such...

nahh, that wouldn't happen. weird how many different ways people have
put these cars back together.

Cullen
Oklahoma under a blanket of ice
B382001452 LROFE

From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Tue Dec 11 15:34:07 2007
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:34:07 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby announcement
Message-ID: <d36.1c18a405.34906a5f@aol.com>

Look at it this way, 85 years old, transplant, poor health and nature waiting 
to show ol' Shel off the cliff....dead is dead and no trademark (trademarks 
do not make one immortal) or lawyer can change that. Tiger prices increase and 
the fights will gradually lose steam. Somewhere in there is a silver 
lining....wherever we find it.

Moonstone


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From bobbridgeford at msn.com  Tue Dec 11 22:40:59 2007
From: bobbridgeford at msn.com (Robert Bridgeford)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:40:59 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Price climbs on Tigers
Message-ID: <BAY103-F39DF02187DF0F71EB0FAC5AA650@phx.gbl>

Irregardless of what we think of Shelby, Drmoonstone is certainly right 
about the price climbing on our cars.  The January edition of Sports Car 
Market has a nice price comparison of the 20 year appreciation of a Tiger, a 
Morgan and an Italia.

Picking some price points, the Tiger was worth $15k in 1988, $28K in 2005, 
and is valued at $55k this year.  This would be a decent "number 2" car, 
with pricing based on sales data collected from auctions, dealers and other 
commercial sources over the past year.  A perfect #1 car would be worth 
considerably more, a rust bucket considerably less.

The question that we all face is  modified vs. originality.  The former is 
certainly more in the spirit of the mainstream Tiger community which 
embraces upgrades to electronics, carbs, headers, steering racks etc. The 
latter may be closer to those who collect and preserve ( as contrasted with 
drive ) their cars. The history of other marques suggests that originality 
holds the greatest financial rewards.

Perhaps the most similar car in many ways is the Pantera.  A muscle car/ 
sports car underwritten by a major manufacturer, that car is also much 
modified . Modifications generally raise the price when they allow greater 
utility and speed.  However, the demand for original cars is  growing, and 
they may soon be at par value with the modifieds.

Clearly, the only way to have our cake and eat it too, is for each of us to 
own at least 2 Tigers....one for the road and competition and one for the 
concours and as life insurance in our old age!



Bob Bridgeford
541 549 9539
Sisters OR 97759

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Wed Dec 12 07:38:30 2007
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:38:30 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] Price climbs on Tigers
Message-ID: <20071212.093830.1416.0@webmail16.vgs.untd.com>

I would love to have 2 Tigers!!

We have an unusual situation with the Tiger, if you think about it the body is
more important then the engine. You could transplant an Alpine engine into the
Tiger and still have a Tiger.
Some of the other cars come as a complete package, Body/Engine. If you
separate them you lose the originality of the car.  However, it seems Tiger
owners are tolerant with the fact of swapping engine, which does not affect
pricing that much.
All in all, pricing on collector cars has been going back up and there is no
reason the Tiger is not going to follow suit.
Tim
B9470149

_____________________________________________________________
Want more money in your pocket? Click to consolidate student loans.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3m1tG9Zvf7WHZXItTnDC9ezrMT7
aopNdmWG23TBCtis18yiX/

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Wed Dec 12 10:47:16 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:47:16 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Price climbs on Tigers
Message-ID: <ce3.1fffa403.349178a4@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:41:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
bobbridgeford at msn.com writes:

Perhaps  the most similar car in many ways is the Pantera.  A muscle car/  
sports car underwritten by a major manufacturer, that car is also much  
modified . Modifications generally raise the price when they allow greater  
utility and speed.  However, the demand for original cars is   growing, and 
they may soon be at par value with the  modifieds.




I feel the same way. I've long held that the Pantera is in a very similar  
location of the collector market as the Tiger.
 
In both cases, you also have historically had a somewhat "cult  type" 
following, as neither car was particularly successful when new, either in  terms of 
sales or, more importantly, racing. Both of these aspects of  a specific models 
history are very important in setting current  collector value.
 
But, both the Tiger and the Pantera have many redeeming qualities, starting  
with simple, torquey, great sounding motors, and look relatively inexpensive 
in  the context of the "bigger picture". Given that they both fall at a lower 
price  point, many will be used as a drivers (not daily, but frequently).  But, 
to  be truly fun to drive, in both cases you'll need to make suitable 
modifications,  hence the greater acceptance among collectors of modified or updated 
cars.
 
The other thing that both the Tiger and Pantera share, well, the Pantera to  
a much greater degree, is good styling which has aged well. This is always  
important in determining long term value projections, but has become even more  
important in the current auction driven collector market, as more casual 
buyers  see the Tigers or Panteras "crossing the block" and are first attracted to 
the  "look" of these very neat cars...next thing you know, they're opening 
their  wallets. ;-)
 
 



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From cjcoffel at sonic.net  Wed Dec 12 11:17:37 2007
From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:17:37 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Price climbs on Tigers
References: <ce3.1fffa403.349178a4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c83ceb$46d1b9f0$6401a8c0@pc1>

My brother had two Panteras.

Panteras are always for sale (E-Bay always has at least four) because the 
build quality between a Tiger and Pantera is miles apart. The people who 
love them, are most often people who have never owned one. The only way to 
describe it, is that they are NOT a finished car. Tiger problems are minor 
and insignificant by comparison. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone 
ever driving one daily (School, work, etc). There is a reason for 
that....................

Chris



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <MWood24020 at aol.com>
To: <bobbridgeford at msn.com>; <Drmoonstone at aol.com>; <rande at thecia.net>; 
<tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Price climbs on Tigers


> In a message dated 12/11/2007 9:41:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> bobbridgeford at msn.com writes:
>
> Perhaps  the most similar car in many ways is the Pantera.  A muscle car/
> sports car underwritten by a major manufacturer, that car is also much
> modified . Modifications generally raise the price when they allow greater
> utility and speed.  However, the demand for original cars is   growing, 
> and
> they may soon be at par value with the  modifieds.
>
>
>
>
> I feel the same way. I've long held that the Pantera is in a very similar
> location of the collector market as the Tiger.
>
> In both cases, you also have historically had a somewhat "cult  type"
> following, as neither car was particularly successful when new, either in 
> terms of
> sales or, more importantly, racing. Both of these aspects of  a specific 
> models
> history are very important in setting current  collector value.
>
> But, both the Tiger and the Pantera have many redeeming qualities, 
> starting
> with simple, torquey, great sounding motors, and look relatively 
> inexpensive
> in  the context of the "bigger picture". Given that they both fall at a 
> lower
> price  point, many will be used as a drivers (not daily, but frequently). 
> But,
> to  be truly fun to drive, in both cases you'll need to make suitable
> modifications,  hence the greater acceptance among collectors of modified 
> or updated
> cars.
>
> The other thing that both the Tiger and Pantera share, well, the Pantera 
> to
> a much greater degree, is good styling which has aged well. This is always
> important in determining long term value projections, but has become even 
> more
> important in the current auction driven collector market, as more casual
> buyers  see the Tigers or Panteras "crossing the block" and are first 
> attracted to
> the  "look" of these very neat cars...next thing you know, they're opening
> their  wallets. ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> cjcoffel at sonic.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From crabco at shaw.ca  Wed Dec 12 11:35:35 2007
From: crabco at shaw.ca (Tim Webster)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:35:35 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts
Message-ID: <000601c83ced$c92f86f0$6400a8c0@BigBlack>

Thanks to all who responded to my question on basses for the Sparto reverse
lights. I think I am on my way to securing a pair.

Today's problem: I have just spent six weeks waiting for the local Classic
Mustang guy to bring in a pair of engine mount heat shields for the stock 260.
He has now informed me they are NLA.

The part No. is C-3DZ-6C038-A. I understand these are required to keep the
rubber cool and presumably act as a shim. How important are these? Are they
obtainable? If not is there a template somewhere that could be used to
manufacure a pair?

Regards,

Tim

From robin02 at mindspring.com  Wed Dec 12 11:49:27 2007
From: robin02 at mindspring.com (RObin Young)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:49:27 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Toploader overdrive
Message-ID: <019601c83cef$b9b13d70$6501a8c0@RobinLaptop>

Guys,
 
Some reading on toploaders has turned up a modification that can be done to
our boxes to extend the gear ratio even further than the wide ratio used on
the MK 2.   It lowers first gear and raises fourth to .81 or .79.   I
haven't seen this discussed that I remember. Has anyone done this? RObin
B9471769

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Wed Dec 12 11:56:58 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:56:58 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Toploader overdrive
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF4@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

During the mid-70's Ford made an aluminum-case version of the toploader
dubbed the Single-Rail Overdrive. This was a version where the shift
linkage for the 3/4 shift ring was reversed, and then they reworked the
countershaft (and the gear corresponding to 3rd) to make the 3rd gear
position an overdrive ratio. This was definitely a 'wide' ratio gearbox
by anyone's definition, and gives a significant hole between 2nd and
"3rd" (now the 1:1 direct drive). I think John Crawley ran one of these
in his Tiger for a while.

Theo

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Wed Dec 12 12:55:43 2007
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:55:43 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts
In-Reply-To: <000601c83ced$c92f86f0$6400a8c0@BigBlack>
References: <000601c83ced$c92f86f0$6400a8c0@BigBlack>
Message-ID: <000001c83cf8$fadfdc30$64f3c04a@jerry>

Tim,

I just spent about an hour in my "tiger library" but couldn't find the
template for those heat shields, but I'm sure someone out there has a copy
of them to send to you. I made mine out of thin stainless steel and polished
them so they look like chrome.

Jerry Christopherson

9473187

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Tim Webster
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:36 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts

Thanks to all who responded to my question on basses for the Sparto reverse
lights. I think I am on my way to securing a pair.

Today's problem: I have just spent six weeks waiting for the local Classic
Mustang guy to bring in a pair of engine mount heat shields for the stock
260.
He has now informed me they are NLA.

The part No. is C-3DZ-6C038-A. I understand these are required to keep the
rubber cool and presumably act as a shim. How important are these? Are they
obtainable? If not is there a template somewhere that could be used to
manufacure a pair?

Regards,

Tim
_______________________________________________
jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From fsimer at gac.edu  Wed Dec 12 13:11:48 2007
From: fsimer at gac.edu (fsimer at gac.edu)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:11:48 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Toploader overdrive
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF4@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF4@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <20071212141148.5bvn7869vockwo4s@webmail.gac.edu>

I have a SROD with shifter in Minneapolis if anyone wants it - $100
FOB my shop Minneapolis 55405  (I have never run it so no idea of its
overall condition) I went with a mini GN QC rear instead of
transmission changes

Frank Simer
Gustavus Adolphus College








Quoting "Smit, Theo" <Theo.Smit at dynastream.com>:

> During the mid-70's Ford made an aluminum-case version of the toploader
> dubbed the Single-Rail Overdrive. This was a version where the shift
> linkage for the 3/4 shift ring was reversed, and then they reworked the
> countershaft (and the gear corresponding to 3rd) to make the 3rd gear
> position an overdrive ratio. This was definitely a 'wide' ratio gearbox
> by anyone's definition, and gives a significant hole between 2nd and
> "3rd" (now the 1:1 direct drive). I think John Crawley ran one of these
> in his Tiger for a while.
>
> Theo
> _______________________________________________
> fsimer at gac.edu
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Wed Dec 12 13:13:20 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:13:20 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF5@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Courtesy of Cullen Bennett and Mark Olson:
http://www.classictiger.com/techtips/heatshield.html

Check out the other tech tips on Mark's site as well... They've been
around for a few years but they're still relevant.

Theo

From crabco at shaw.ca  Wed Dec 12 13:52:11 2007
From: crabco at shaw.ca (Tim Webster)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:52:11 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF5@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <000601c83d00$de5d2600$6400a8c0@BigBlack>

Theo,

Thanks. That is very helpful indeed. I will make a pair and get on with the 
project.

Thanks to all who responded.

Regards,

Tim


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Smit, Theo" <Theo.Smit at dynastream.com>
To: "Jerry" <JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net>; "Tim Webster" <crabco at shaw.ca>; 
<tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Motor mounts


Courtesy of Cullen Bennett and Mark Olson:
http://www.classictiger.com/techtips/heatshield.html

Check out the other tech tips on Mark's site as well... They've been
around for a few years but they're still relevant.

Theo

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Wed Dec 12 14:56:58 2007
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:56:58 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
In-Reply-To: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F54EF@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
References: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F54EF@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <000f01c83d09$eba97350$6101a8c0@DellD4700>

Maybe someone put an Alpine VIN on a stolen Tiger at some point in the past?

A.C. Tynes
New Orleans

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tigers-bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-
> bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Cullen McCann
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 1:18 PM
> To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
> Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> eBay item number 140189086032
> 
> This one is actually kinda confusing to me...seller calls it outright as
> an Alger....I'm glad he's representing it correctly...but if you look
> closely it has a Tiger engine bay. Maybe someone cut up a Tiger to put
> the bits on this Alpine...but its odd, usually I can spot the Alpine
> hidden beneath a Tiger cloak...someone put a lot of work into this car
> to look like a Tiger, at least from my limited knowledge. He doesn't
> provide suspension or undercarriage pics, but many of the areas on it
> look Tiger legit to me. Engine bay, inner fenders, firewall.... Also the
> alpine vin tag has non-factory rivets on it.
> 
> I wonder if its ever happened that a guy actually had a Tiger, maybe he
> bought it without an engine and didn't know what he had, thought it was
> an Alpine, so put it together like an Alpine....then I guess later
> someone puts a sbf back in it...but all the time thought it was an
> Alpine...or someone put an Alpine Vin on a car so save money on
> insurance, and then sold it as such...
> 
> nahh, that wouldn't happen. weird how many different ways people have
> put these cars back together.
> 
> Cullen
> Oklahoma under a blanket of ice
> B382001452 LROFE
> _______________________________________________
> v8tracker at gmail.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Wed Dec 12 15:20:09 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:20:09 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
In-Reply-To: <000f01c83d09$eba97350$6101a8c0@DellD4700>
References: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F54EF@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
	<000f01c83d09$eba97350$6101a8c0@DellD4700>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F5686@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

That's definitely something I could see happening...even today....I'll
bet its happened. I wonder if those would be factors that NCM would have
to consider when hunting down old lost cars...
I did have a couple listers reply back to me with some other stuff that
gives it away as an Alpine....so this one must be just what he says it
is.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------

Maybe someone put an Alpine VIN on a stolen Tiger at some point in the
past?

A.C. Tynes
New Orleans

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Wed Dec 12 15:29:10 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:29:10 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Toploader overdrive
References: <019601c83cef$b9b13d70$6501a8c0@RobinLaptop>
Message-ID: <001501c83d0e$6b454f40$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

Robin,
  I asked a similar question when I first got my Tiger years ago. It was
recommended not to do it based on the gear ratios and the large jump between
2nd and 3rd gear.

 If sticking with the Toploader is important there is a little known set of
gears that were in the Jeep Toploader from 1980-1986. The first gear was
3.01 with a "balanced" spread of ratios up to 1:1 fourth gear ( 3.01, 2.08,
1.47, 1:1). My thinking with these gears is one could run taller tires and
get the same effect as running a .80 trans. The "bog" one might be concern
about (from the taller tires) would be compensated with the 3.01 first gear.
Basically it is a "wide-er" ratio trans. as opposed to a "wide" ratio.
However it does not suffer from the radical ratio jumps of the O.D. four
speeds.

 In as much as I like the concept for it's simplicity finding one is a
different matter.  The Jeep Toploaders go by the designation T-176, T-177,
and T-178. The T-178 is the trans. you would want. The other trans. are
standard Jeep "Rock Crawler" ratios. The T-178 never came in the CJ or the
Cherokee. I think it was the Jeep pick-up and maybe the Wagoneer only. I've
been looking here in Calif. for about 6 years and never found one. Maybe one
of these day...?
Tom Witt

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Wed Dec 12 15:53:20 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:53:20 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF9@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I just browsed all the pictures - and I see nothing that definitely
marks it as an Alpine. On the other hand, it has all of these Tiger
widgets, which are generally missing from clones:

- Picture 22 shows the spec plate - it's from a Tiger (Hydraulic type
tappets, other things Tiger specific are hard to read)
- The front fenders, doors, and rear fenders all have the holes for the
Tiger trim. You'd put that in if you were building a good clone, but not
if you were going to brand it an Alpine conversion.
- Tiger oil filter hardware visible in the engine bay pictures.
- Original style fender brace (Ware strut) supports
- Picture 18 - you can see the non-OEM radiator catch tank, but you can
also see that it does have the OEM Tiger fender attachment for that
tank.
- Picture 12 - Tiger speedo
- Picture 25 - little hard to tell what's going on there, but it looks
like the battery vent hole in the (Tiger specific) trunk is being used
for something and it may have the Tiger battery hold-down.
- Picture 30 - It has the Tiger panel in front of the radiator (with the
shroud mounting points)

On the other hand, I don't see anything that points to Alpine origin.
The spare (as pictured in #38) is chucked into the Alpine tire well, but
you can see the bulge in the vinyl covering the trunk floor from the
Tiger spare hold-down. More than likely, the current owner doesn't know,
or specifically wants to distance the car from its Tiger origins...
That's a first, on eBay at least.

Theo

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Wed Dec 12 15:51:26 2007
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:51:26 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF5@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF5@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <000101c83d11$86cbf130$64f3c04a@jerry>

OK,I have a question for all. Does anyone know the funny saying using the
word LUCAS as the acronym? I heard it many years ago, but have since
forgotten it. I just remember it was very appropriate. 

Jerry Christopherson

9473187

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Smit, Theo
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 2:13 PM
To: Jerry; Tim Webster; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor mounts

Courtesy of Cullen Bennett and Mark Olson:
http://www.classictiger.com/techtips/heatshield.html

Check out the other tech tips on Mark's site as well... They've been
around for a few years but they're still relevant.

Theo
_______________________________________________
jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From bobdixon at frii.com  Wed Dec 12 16:01:11 2007
From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:01:11 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts
Message-ID: <38754.192.55.12.36.1197500471.squirrel@users.frii.com>

Here's one:

Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices

> OK,I have a question for all. Does anyone know the funny saying using the
> word LUCAS as the acronym? I heard it many years ago, but have since
> forgotten it. I just remember it was very appropriate.

From bobdixon at frii.com  Wed Dec 12 16:05:23 2007
From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:05:23 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Tigers] Lucas website
Message-ID: <53906.192.55.12.36.1197500723.squirrel@users.frii.com>

For your viewing pleasure:

 http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Wed Dec 12 16:01:35 2007
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:01:35 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Motor mounts
In-Reply-To: <38754.192.55.12.36.1197500471.squirrel@users.frii.com>
References: <38754.192.55.12.36.1197500471.squirrel@users.frii.com>
Message-ID: <000501c83d12$f1df5470$64f3c04a@jerry>

Bob,

That's good, I'm still laughing.

Jerry 

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bob Dixon
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:01 PM
To: Jerry
Cc: 'Tim Webster'; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Motor mounts

Here's one:

Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices

> OK,I have a question for all. Does anyone know the funny saying using the
> word LUCAS as the acronym? I heard it many years ago, but have since
> forgotten it. I just remember it was very appropriate.
_______________________________________________
jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Wed Dec 12 16:18:15 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:18:15 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF9@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF9@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F5697@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Exactly! I noticed some of those points but not all of em....that's a
better analysis of what I was looking at. Man I would love to see this
car in person....what if.....just what if?

We've all seen Tiger clones, but when they transfer that much of a donor
tiger over to an Alpine chassis...that takes work. You have to be
dedicated to the cause....most people don't fake it so well.

I think I'll email the seller and ask about it....












I just browsed all the pictures - and I see nothing that definitely
marks it as an Alpine. On the other hand, it has all of these Tiger
widgets, which are generally missing from clones:

- Picture 22 shows the spec plate - it's from a Tiger (Hydraulic type
tappets, other things Tiger specific are hard to read)
- The front fenders, doors, and rear fenders all have the holes for the
Tiger trim. You'd put that in if you were building a good clone, but not
if you were going to brand it an Alpine conversion.
- Tiger oil filter hardware visible in the engine bay pictures.
- Original style fender brace (Ware strut) supports
- Picture 18 - you can see the non-OEM radiator catch tank, but you can
also see that it does have the OEM Tiger fender attachment for that
tank.
- Picture 12 - Tiger speedo
- Picture 25 - little hard to tell what's going on there, but it looks
like the battery vent hole in the (Tiger specific) trunk is being used
for something and it may have the Tiger battery hold-down.
- Picture 30 - It has the Tiger panel in front of the radiator (with the
shroud mounting points)

On the other hand, I don't see anything that points to Alpine origin.
The spare (as pictured in #38) is chucked into the Alpine tire well, but
you can see the bulge in the vinyl covering the trunk floor from the
Tiger spare hold-down. More than likely, the current owner doesn't know,
or specifically wants to distance the car from its Tiger origins...
That's a first, on eBay at least.

Theo

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Wed Dec 12 16:29:26 2007
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:29:26 +1100
Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
In-Reply-To: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F5697@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF9@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
	<D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F5697@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0712121529m2852411eqa4998c4ceb13888a@mail.gmail.com>

Not saying this car is either Tiger or Alpine, but things to consider:

There are some very good clones out there, maybe this guy bought a car
that he knows has dubious history and despite appearing to have many
Tiger features knows it's not and is not trying to get in trouble by
letting someone believe it is.

Perhaps its a stolen car or totaled car and they have asigned it another VIN?


-- 
Regards

Michael King

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 12 16:32:46 2007
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:32:46 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Heat Shields
Message-ID: <000c01c83d17$4d778600$6401a8c0@your03667082de>

Try National Parts Depot for the heat shields.  I bought a set last summer.

                              Jeff

From JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net  Wed Dec 12 16:41:11 2007
From: JCMC2006 at suddenlink.net (Jerry)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:41:11 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Lucas website
In-Reply-To: <53906.192.55.12.36.1197500723.squirrel@users.frii.com>
References: <53906.192.55.12.36.1197500723.squirrel@users.frii.com>
Message-ID: <000601c83d18$7a142870$64f3c04a@jerry>

Bob,
 Now that was funny, I had tears rolling down my face.

Jerry

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Bob Dixon
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:05 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Lucas website

For your viewing pleasure:

 http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html
_______________________________________________
jcmc2006 at suddenlink.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Wed Dec 12 16:55:10 2007
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:55:10 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
In-Reply-To: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F54EF@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
References: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F54EF@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <001001c83d1a$6ed78040$6101a8c0@DellD4700>

After looking at it some more, it appears the VIN plate might be in two
pieces. Could the original plate have been cut out around the rivets and the
Alpine VIN plate slid underneath?
 
A.C. Tynes
New Orleans

> -----Original Message-----
 
> ...or someone put an Alpine Vin on a car  
> 
> Cullen
> Oklahoma under a blanket of ice
> B382001452 LROFE

From CoolVT at aol.com  Wed Dec 12 17:18:39 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:18:39 EST
Subject: [Tigers] yet another Alger on eBay..
Message-ID: <c67.2311bb77.3491d45f@aol.com>

After  looking at it some more, it appears the VIN plate might be in two
pieces.  Could the original plate have been cut out around the rivets and the
Alpine  VIN plate slid underneath?



I bet it's really a Tiger.  The seller heard of this group and  knew that he 
could really stir things up by doing the reverse of the  norm....downgrading 
the product.  Now what will we call this  one...."Talger" ??
M



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com  Wed Dec 12 17:57:12 2007
From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:57:12 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Heat shield
Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF0823D7EC@norn32.d30.intra>

I do not run these on my car as I did not have them originally equipped
from the previous owner. An engine change saw them disappear long before
I got the car. I do recall seeing drawings of these either in the Book
of Norman or the sunbeam repair manual but was provided by Cullen
Bennet. So I would suggest that you make your own if you want them. Also
if you are doing this you may want to incorporate the motor mount
modification attached.



Best Regards,

Tim Ronak
Services Consultant

Akzo Nobel Coatings
23961 Via El Rocio
Mission Viejo, CA 92691

Bus: 949-305-5393
Fax: 425-955-6268
Cell: 949-289-3357
email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com
Personal email: timronak at cox.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of heatshield.gif]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Motor Mount Article with pics.pdf]

From Carmods at aol.com  Thu Dec 13 06:57:21 2007
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:57:21 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Toploader overdrive
Message-ID: <d59.1c04dc68.34929441@aol.com>

Some reading on toploaders has turned up a modification that can be done  to
our boxes to extend the gear ratio even further than the wide ratio used  on
the MK 2
 
Top loaders like these were used in Monarch/Granada cars in about  1975.
 
John Logan



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From srekate at pacifier.com  Thu Dec 13 10:11:14 2007
From: srekate at pacifier.com (Scott Rekate)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:11:14 -0800
Subject: [Tigers]  Motor mounts
Message-ID: <DE48DA75-6554-4DCB-9F7F-A3D6AA731BCD@pacifier.com>

Tim,

I believe you can obtain those motor mount heat shields at NPD  
(National Parts Depot).
The website is http://www.npdlink.com/index.php . It can be viewed  
in .pdf file. Look under 65-73 Mustang,
Download, Engine Parts, it's viewable on the fist page. Part #6C038-1.
They also have national phone numbers to call.
Good Luck,

Scott


Today's problem: I have just spent six weeks waiting for the local  
Classic
Mustang guy to bring in a pair of engine mount heat shields for the  
stock 260.
He has now informed me they are NLA.

The part No. is C-3DZ-6C038-A. I understand these are required to  
keep the
rubber cool and presumably act as a shim. How important are these?  
Are they
obtainable? If not is there a template somewhere that could be used to
manufacure a pair?

Regards,

Tim

From srekate at pacifier.com  Thu Dec 13 10:11:36 2007
From: srekate at pacifier.com (Scott Rekate)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:11:36 -0800
Subject: [Tigers]  Motor mounts
Message-ID: <BCA682CD-1768-4D98-86C9-AA2EDDE2FD16@pacifier.com>

Tim,

I believe you can obtain those motor mount heat shields at NPD  
(National Parts Depot).
The website is http://www.npdlink.com/index.php . It can be viewed  
in .pdf file. Look under 65-73 Mustang,
Download, Engine Parts, it's viewable on the fist page. Part #6C038-1.
They also have national phone numbers to call.
Good Luck,

Scott


Today's problem: I have just spent six weeks waiting for the local  
Classic
Mustang guy to bring in a pair of engine mount heat shields for the  
stock 260.
He has now informed me they are NLA.

The part No. is C-3DZ-6C038-A. I understand these are required to  
keep the
rubber cool and presumably act as a shim. How important are these?  
Are they
obtainable? If not is there a template somewhere that could be used to
manufacure a pair?

Regards,

Tim

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Thu Dec 13 12:07:02 2007
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:07:02 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <20071213.140702.25742.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>

After reading some of the e mails I went back and looked at this car again.
It's hard to believe this isn't a Tiger, who ever did the conversion went to
great lengths and I would say expense to build a clone.
The vin plate is very strange, it looks like they cut out the original plate
and inserted the Alpine plate. The vin# is for a SIV Alpine built in the week
of 8/10-8/14 1964. The color code is 58, what color is that? I went to the
SAOCA site but 58 is not listed as a color code. But it has to be a color
because it's on the vin plate.
The seats look like they are Type 2 seats.
I bet this is a Tiger with a dubious past and they don't wants to open up a
can of worms.
Any of the PA local guys willing to take a look?
Haven't heard from Norm on this one yet.

Tim
9470149

_____________________________________________________________
Want a great salary and great benefits?  Click here to start a criminal
justice career.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3nNLMbVZHrPzSegNrOWfVtytQO4
SDzaSfezRE8jAMlfiE6W2/

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Thu Dec 13 12:22:05 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:22:05 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <20071213.140702.25742.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20071213.140702.25742.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F576A@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

My thoughts too. I emailed Norm this morning to inquire if he had any
opinion, havent heard from him yet. I copied Theo on the email because
he was one of the first to respond having looked at it so closely, and I
referenced his analysis in the email. I havent contacted the seller yet,
and I'm not really in the market for another Tiger but a good deal is
hard to pass up if it were the real deal. Honestly...I'm hesitant to
tell the seller all we have discussed, in case somebody can go up there
and buy that car cheap like it is now. Heck, for all I know the seller
is on the list!





------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
After reading some of the e mails I went back and looked at this car
again.
It's hard to believe this isn't a Tiger, who ever did the conversion
went to great lengths and I would say expense to build a clone.
The vin plate is very strange, it looks like they cut out the original
plate and inserted the Alpine plate. The vin# is for a SIV Alpine built
in the week of 8/10-8/14 1964. The color code is 58, what color is that?
I went to the SAOCA site but 58 is not listed as a color code. But it
has to be a color because it's on the vin plate.
The seats look like they are Type 2 seats.
I bet this is a Tiger with a dubious past and they don't wants to open
up a can of worms.
Any of the PA local guys willing to take a look?
Haven't heard from Norm on this one yet.

Tim
9470149

From awtiger at cox.net  Thu Dec 13 12:44:05 2007
From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:44:05 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <20071213.140702.25742.0@webmail24.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20071213144405.UTQEQ.22688.root@eastrmwml20.mgt.cox.net>

>>The color code is 58, what color is that?

Midnight Blue (per The Book of Norman)

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Thu Dec 13 12:49:22 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:49:22 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A002@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

If it is a Tiger shell, then you could present it to the TAC committee
for scrutiny... But going further than that to re-establish its
provenance is going to be chancy. If it turns out that the true original
VIN (based on, hypothetically, matching ID numbers on the transmission,
diff, and keys, to a particular Tiger record in Norm's database) matches
a vehicle marked as 'stolen' in the relevant DMV's database, then the
DMV may make efforts to return the car to its rightful owner... And
charge everyone inbetween with posession of stolen property.
If they decide that they can't accurately establish the provenance of
the vehicle, then they might just assign it a state VIN... Or they might
take it to the crusher.

So on the one hand it would be good to positively ID another Tiger that
may have been 'lost'... On the other hand, the consequences may be hard
to take.

Theo

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Thu Dec 13 13:23:00 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:23:00 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Lucas website
In-Reply-To: <000601c83d18$7a142870$64f3c04a@jerry>
References: <53906.192.55.12.36.1197500723.squirrel@users.frii.com>
	<000601c83d18$7a142870$64f3c04a@jerry>
Message-ID: <476194A4.7010106@SoCal.rr.com>

Bob, Jerry,

Lucas has been joked about for as long as I can remember.  However, I 
found the defining proof about Lucas.

At the National Motor Museum, Beaulieu (England), 
http://www.beaulieu.co.uk/motormuseum/ 
there is a fantastic collection of British motor cars, and motorcycles - 
including the British Land Speed record cars with the Tiger.

Great visit, don't miss if you are there.

Beaulieu

Beaulieu Enterprises Ltd
John Montagu Building
Beaulieu
Brockenhurst
Hampshire
SO42 7ZN

Tel : 01590 612345
Fax : 01590 612624



There is a special Lucas exhibit showing all the electric lamps Lucas 
has built.  They are all operating with low voltage A/C lamps.  Well, 
that is, they are all operating WHEN they are operating!!!   When we 
visited the entire booth was dark, but not any adjoining booths.  So, I 
guess that settles the question.  Even in their Home country, and the 
best auto museum in Great Britain, in an exhibit they designed, it shows 
the true underlying competence of Lord Lucas.

For some strange reason, my Tiger lighting is all original Lucas, and 
works.  That is, until I say that, and the Lord of Darkness gets even by 
proving all the stories about "him".

It is somewhat misleading to call him the "Lord of Darkness", when is is 
more accurate to call him "Lucas, 2nd Earl of Dim Illumination and 
Windscreen Wiper Malfunctions".     ;-)

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Jerry wrote:

>Bob,
> Now that was funny, I had tears rolling down my face.
>
>Jerry
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net
>[mailto:tigers-bounces+jcmc2006=suddenlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
>Bob Dixon
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:05 PM
>To: tigers at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Tigers] Lucas website
>
>For your viewing pleasure:
>
> http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html
>_______________________________________________

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 13 14:16:33 2007
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:16:33 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A002@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV85FC3FB04DBB98CDCFE6FC1660@phx.gbl>

It would be interesting to know, how many Tigers have been reported stolen 
and unrecovered.

I'm afraid alot of these classic cars would be very easy to chop up and sell 
on ebay these days. :-(

Steve

> If it is a Tiger shell, then you could present it to the TAC committee
> for scrutiny... But going further than that to re-establish its
> provenance is going to be chancy. If it turns out that the true original
> VIN (based on, hypothetically, matching ID numbers on the transmission,
> diff, and keys, to a particular Tiger record in Norm's database) matches
> a vehicle marked as 'stolen' in the relevant DMV's database, then the
> DMV may make efforts to return the car to its rightful owner... And
> charge everyone inbetween with posession of stolen property.
> If they decide that they can't accurately establish the provenance of
> the vehicle, then they might just assign it a state VIN... Or they might
> take it to the crusher.
>
> So on the one hand it would be good to positively ID another Tiger that
> may have been 'lost'... On the other hand, the consequences may be hard
> to take.
>
> Theo

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 13 14:33:45 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:33:45 EST
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <c35.22de8ca7.3492ff39@aol.com>

It would be interesting to know, how many Tigers have been reported  stolen 
and unrecovered.




I think if and how the seller answers the questions that are put to  him/her 
might begin to give some clues as to what is going  on.



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Thu Dec 13 14:48:49 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:48:49 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Toploader overdrive
In-Reply-To: <20071212141148.5bvn7869vockwo4s@webmail.gac.edu>
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157609FF4@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
	<20071212141148.5bvn7869vockwo4s@webmail.gac.edu>
Message-ID: <4761A8C1.1010905@mayfco.com>

Ok, Frank, you now have my interest, lol...What is a "mini GN QC rear"? 
I assume the QC is for quick change, but what is it and what kind of 
specs does it nave..

mayf
fsimer at gac.edu wrote:

>I have a SROD with shifter in Minneapolis if anyone wants it - $100
>FOB my shop Minneapolis 55405  (I have never run it so no idea of its
>overall condition) I went with a mini GN QC rear instead of
>transmission changes
>
>Frank Simer
>Gustavus Adolphus College
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Quoting "Smit, Theo" <Theo.Smit at dynastream.com>:
>
>  
>
>>During the mid-70's Ford made an aluminum-case version of the toploader
>>dubbed the Single-Rail Overdrive. This was a version where the shift
>>linkage for the 3/4 shift ring was reversed, and then they reworked the
>>countershaft (and the gear corresponding to 3rd) to make the 3rd gear
>>position an overdrive ratio. This was definitely a 'wide' ratio gearbox
>>by anyone's definition, and gives a significant hole between 2nd and
>>"3rd" (now the 1:1 direct drive). I think John Crawley ran one of these
>>in his Tiger for a while.
>>
>>Theo
>>_______________________________________________
>>fsimer at gac.edu
>>
>>Tigers at autox.team.net
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From bamcnulty at optonline.net  Thu Dec 13 14:56:55 2007
From: bamcnulty at optonline.net (Tony McNulty)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:56:55 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A002@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
	<BAY119-DAV85FC3FB04DBB98CDCFE6FC1660@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <002a01c83dd3$13a4f270$0200a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Gotta wonder how a vehicle with an obviously altered VIN plate can have a 
"clean title" -- anyone ask the seller that question? ... just a thought.

Tony Mc



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tigerman" <Tigerman67 at hotmail.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032


> It would be interesting to know, how many Tigers have been reported stolen
> and unrecovered.
>
> I'm afraid alot of these classic cars would be very easy to chop up and 
> sell
> on ebay these days. :-(
>
> Steve
>
>> If it is a Tiger shell, then you could present it to the TAC committee
>> for scrutiny... But going further than that to re-establish its
>> provenance is going to be chancy. If it turns out that the true original
>> VIN (based on, hypothetically, matching ID numbers on the transmission,
>> diff, and keys, to a particular Tiger record in Norm's database) matches
>> a vehicle marked as 'stolen' in the relevant DMV's database, then the
>> DMV may make efforts to return the car to its rightful owner... And
>> charge everyone inbetween with posession of stolen property.
>> If they decide that they can't accurately establish the provenance of
>> the vehicle, then they might just assign it a state VIN... Or they might
>> take it to the crusher.
>>
>> So on the one hand it would be good to positively ID another Tiger that
>> may have been 'lost'... On the other hand, the consequences may be hard
>> to take.
>>
>> Theo
> _______________________________________________
> bamcnulty at optonline.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From mmichels at socal.rr.com  Thu Dec 13 17:15:12 2007
From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (mmichels at socal.rr.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 16:15:12 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Lucas website
Message-ID: <28574726.941951197591312813.JavaMail.root@hrndva-web15-z01>

I visited the Beaulieu museum two years ago. I can definitely recommend it. It's fairly handy if you are on an excursion to the New Forest, Bath, Stonehenge areas. ALso it's the home of a well-known classic car swap meet ("jumble" in local parlance) and classic car auctions.    For reasons that are completely obscure, the Brits pronounce it "Byew-lee." Thumbing their noses at the French, no doubt. 


---- Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com> wrote: 
> Bob, Jerry,
> 
> Lucas has been joked about for as long as I can remember.  However, I 
> found the defining proof about Lucas.
> 
> At the National Motor Museum, Beaulieu (England), 
> http://www.beaulieu.co.uk/motormuseum/ 
> there is a fantastic collection of British motor cars, and motorcycles - 
> including the British Land Speed record cars with the Tiger.
> 
> Great visit, don't miss if you are there.
> 
> Beaulieu
> 
> Beaulieu Enterprises Ltd
> John Montagu Building
> Beaulieu
> Brockenhurst
> Hampshire
> SO42 7ZN
> 
> Tel : 01590 612345
> Fax : 01590 612624
> 
> 
> 
> There is a special Lucas exhibit showing all the electric lamps Lucas 
> has built.  They are all operating with low voltage A/C lamps.  Well, 
> that is, they are all operating WHEN they are operating!!!   When we 
> visited the entire booth was dark, but not any adjoining booths.  So, I 
> guess that settles the question.  Even in their Home country, and the 
> best auto museum in Great Britain, in an exhibit they designed, it shows 
> the true underlying competence of Lord Lucas.
> 
> For some strange reason, my Tiger lighting is all original Lucas, and 
> works.  That is, until I say that, and the Lord of Darkness gets even by 
> proving all the stories about "him".
> 
> It is somewhat misleading to call him the "Lord of Darkness", when is is 
> more accurate to call him "Lucas, 2nd Earl of Dim Illumination and 
> Windscreen Wiper Malfunctions".     ;-)
> 
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry wrote:
> 
> >Bob,
> > Now that was funny, I had tears rolling down my face.
> >
> >Jerry
> >
> >-----

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Thu Dec 13 20:24:18 2007
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:24:18 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <20071213.222418.22598.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>

I don't know why the SAOCA site does not have it listed, maybe an over-site on
their part.
I don't think it was a Tiger only color?
Now the question becomes why the paint change.

Totally hypothetical but, lets say it was stolen, the vin plate was swapped
for an Alpine vin plate and the car was painted a different color. You could
then register the car every year with the Alpine vin numbers and no one would
know the difference.
Jump to now, the seller knows he has a car with a questionable past and just
wants to sale it. List it on EBay as an ALGER and hope no questions pop up.
But because of efforts by a few people we now know more about Tigers and are
more equipped to reorganize them and the clones when they come up for sale.

I wish someone close to Quakertown, PA would take a look. This could be a good
buy.
It would be great for a TAC team to take a look.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Tim
9470149
_____________________________________________________________
Click here to increase your salary by earning an online degree.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3nNfaLRrzciI6uGi1fiDbw6t9W5
lxQXc5p2Hm9lqNBD2TxIN/

From fabbro at shaw.ca  Thu Dec 13 21:08:04 2007
From: fabbro at shaw.ca (Fabbro)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:08:04 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Tee Handle Shifter
Message-ID: <000001c83e06$ed0edfc0$00494546@fabbro>

Hi All.
 
I am looking for a replacement tee for a broken shifter. I see that
tiger engineering has shifters with this item on them. I have tried to
e-mail them (Tom) at 'flyingtiger at tigerengineering.net' but no reply.
Can any one point out were to find the small piece that goes through the
top of the shifter. You guys know the part that you have to pull up to
get the transmission to engage in to reverse. Also the plastic buttons
that have springs behind them in the base to keep the shifter from
rattling.
 
Thanks'
Kim
 
1965 Tiger 260

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 23:30:29 2007
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:30:29 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <002a01c83dd3$13a4f270$0200a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A002@dsimail.ad.garmin.com><BAY119-DAV85FC3FB04DBB98CDCFE6FC1660@phx.gbl>
	<002a01c83dd3$13a4f270$0200a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
Message-ID: <002001c83e1a$d3137a40$6101a8c0@DellD4700>

In all the years I spent in the car business and with all the personal
titles I've transferred in the last 50 years or so, both from in state and
out of state, I have never had the Louisiana DMV ask to actually see a
vehicle.

I've had cops and safety inspectors check the VIN plate against the
registration, but that was always very cursory and never as part of the
titling or registration process.

Do other DMV's, such as California's, actually look at the cars as part of
the process?

A.C. Tynes
New Orleans 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tigers-bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-
> bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony McNulty
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:57 PM
> To: Tigerman; tigers at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
> 
> Gotta wonder how a vehicle with an obviously altered VIN plate can have a
> "clean title" -- anyone ask the seller that question? ... just a thought.
> 
> Tony Mc

From v8tracker at gmail.com  Thu Dec 13 23:37:03 2007
From: v8tracker at gmail.com (A. C. Tynes)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:37:03 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <20071213.222418.22598.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20071213.222418.22598.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <002101c83e1b$bdfbe420$6101a8c0@DellD4700>

Remember that the paint code is on the Alpine plate. There may not have been
a color change if the car is an original red Tiger.

I e-mailed the seller last night and asked if there was a "JAL" or "SAL"
number. No reply as yet?

A.C. Tynes
New Orleans

> -----Original Message-----
> 
> 
> I don't know why the SAOCA site does not have it listed, maybe an over-
> site on
> their part.
> I don't think it was a Tiger only color?
> Now the question becomes why the paint change.

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Dec 14 00:08:29 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:08:29 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <002001c83e1a$d3137a40$6101a8c0@DellD4700>
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A002@dsimail.ad.garmin.com><BAY119-DAV85FC3FB04DBB98CDCFE6FC1660@phx.gbl>
	<002a01c83dd3$13a4f270$0200a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<002001c83e1a$d3137a40$6101a8c0@DellD4700>
Message-ID: <47622BED.9010702@mayfco.com>

A. C. Tynes wrote:

>In all the years I spent in the car business and with all the personal
>titles I've transferred in the last 50 years or so, both from in state and
>out of state, I have never had the Louisiana DMV ask to actually see a
>vehicle.
>
>I've had cops and safety inspectors check the VIN plate against the
>registration, but that was always very cursory and never as part of the
>titling or registration process.
>
>Do other DMV's, such as California's, actually look at the cars as part of
>the process?
>
>A.C. Tynes
>New Orleans 
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: tigers-bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-
>>bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony McNulty
>>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:57 PM
>>To: Tigerman; tigers at autox.team.net
>>Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
>>
>>Gotta wonder how a vehicle with an obviously altered VIN plate can have a
>>"clean title" -- anyone ask the seller that question? ... just a thought.
>>
>>Tony Mc
>>    
>>
>_______________________________________________
>drmayf at mayfco.com
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
>
>
>  
>
When we moved to Alabama, no. When we moved to Nevada yes.I wanted to 
make a change in the title and before they would do it they had to come 
out and look at the vin. My old title was from Calif and somehow the B 
in the number had been left off. Nevada fixed it  but had to look to be 
sure.

mayf

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Fri Dec 14 00:24:02 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:24:02 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A002@dsimail.ad.garmin.com><BAY119-DAV85FC3FB04DBB98CDCFE6FC1660@phx.gbl>
	<002a01c83dd3$13a4f270$0200a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>
	<002001c83e1a$d3137a40$6101a8c0@DellD4700>
Message-ID: <001901c83e22$4dc315a0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

>>> Do other DMV's, such as California's, actually look at the cars as part
of the process?<<<

California, Yes.
Out of state 1961 Corvair wagon 20 years in California, - but never
registered. They treated it like it just came into the state. Had to bring
car to DMV before I got title.

Original California 1973 Datsun 510 off the books for 20+ years. Had to
bring to DMV before I got title.

Tom


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "A. C. Tynes" <v8tracker at gmail.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032


> In all the years I spent in the car business and with all the personal
> titles I've transferred in the last 50 years or so, both from in state and
> out of state, I have never had the Louisiana DMV ask to actually see a
> vehicle.
>
> I've had cops and safety inspectors check the VIN plate against the
> registration, but that was always very cursory and never as part of the
> titling or registration process.
>
> Do other DMV's, such as California's, actually look at the cars as part of
> the process?
>
> A.C. Tynes
> New Orleans
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tigers-bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-
> > bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony McNulty
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:57 PM
> > To: Tigerman; tigers at autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
> >
> > Gotta wonder how a vehicle with an obviously altered VIN plate can have
a
> > "clean title" -- anyone ask the seller that question? ... just a
thought.
> >
> > Tony Mc
> _______________________________________________
> atwittsend at verizon.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release Date: 12/13/07
9:15 AM

From macdonald49 at shaw.ca  Fri Dec 14 00:30:20 2007
From: macdonald49 at shaw.ca (Peter MacDonald)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:30:20 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Rubber parts
Message-ID: <F96DAA3D-6D66-46AB-AD51-E108424BC263@shaw.ca>

My tube of Wurth brand silicone lubricating compound lists for  
applications: Lubricating brake parts, weather stripping, trunk  
seals, rubber bumpers, speedo cables, window channels, hood strips  
and pads, rubber gaskets, fan and V-belts.

Directions are: Apply with a clean cloth, brush, sponge, or finger 
(!). Use sparingly. Remove excess.

So, you probably already have some high temp silicone brake grease  
that you can use. The techs at the dealers use this for the  
weatherstrip squeaks.

Peter

From bobbridgeford at msn.com  Fri Dec 14 00:41:39 2007
From: bobbridgeford at msn.com (Robert Bridgeford)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 23:41:39 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <002001c83e1a$d3137a40$6101a8c0@DellD4700>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F25A96B684D6E281DB4466FAA670@phx.gbl>

I purchased a Tiger from Carson City NV and had it shipped to central Oregon 
in 2006.  When I applied for an OR title the car was inspected, and rejected 
  by the DMV as having a suspicious vin tag. I was required to have the 
state police inspect the car, 2 weeks later, and approve it before title 
could be issued. They ran a check to see if the car was stolen and looked 
for "other vin numbers" on the chassis (there are none of course).  The 
state policeman stated that the vin tag was correct, the rivets were 
correct, and that the DMV inspector was full of s--t as usual.  However, it 
made for some very nervous moments and many phone calls to the seller in NV.





Bob Bridgeford
541 549 9539
Sisters OR 97759




In all the years I spent in the car business and with all the personal
titles I've transferred in the last 50 years or so, both from in state and
out of state, I have never had the Louisiana DMV ask to actually see a
vehicle.

I've had cops and safety inspectors check the VIN plate against the
registration, but that was always very cursory and never as part of the
titling or registration process.

Do other DMV's, such as California's, actually look at the cars as part of
the process?

A.C. Tynes
New Orleans

 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: tigers-bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-
 > bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony McNulty
 > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:57 PM
 > To: Tigerman; tigers at autox.team.net
 > Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
 >
 > Gotta wonder how a vehicle with an obviously altered VIN plate can have a
 > "clean title" -- anyone ask the seller that question? ... just a thought.
 >
 > Tony Mc
_______________________________________________
bobbridgeford at msn.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From awtiger at cox.net  Fri Dec 14 05:09:51 2007
From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 7:09:51 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <002001c83e1a$d3137a40$6101a8c0@DellD4700>
Message-ID: <20071214070951.U4JET.1226.root@fed1wml26.mgt.cox.net>

Oklahoma...yes.  When I bought my '60 Alpine vintage racer out of Nevada, I had to present it to the DMV for VIN inspection before I could title it.  That's just the last car I've had to do that with...I had to do the same thing with a Tiger from Colorado many years ago.

Andy Walker
Edmond, OK

---- "A. C. Tynes" <v8tracker at gmail.com> wrote: 
> In all the years I spent in the car business and with all the personal
> titles I've transferred in the last 50 years or so, both from in state and
> out of state, I have never had the Louisiana DMV ask to actually see a
> vehicle.
> 
> I've had cops and safety inspectors check the VIN plate against the
> registration, but that was always very cursory and never as part of the
> titling or registration process.
> 
> Do other DMV's, such as California's, actually look at the cars as part of
> the process?
> 
> A.C. Tynes
> New Orleans 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tigers-bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-
> > bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony McNulty
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:57 PM
> > To: Tigerman; tigers at autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
> > 
> > Gotta wonder how a vehicle with an obviously altered VIN plate can have a
> > "clean title" -- anyone ask the seller that question? ... just a thought.
> > 
> > Tony Mc
> _______________________________________________
> awtiger at cox.net
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Fri Dec 14 06:04:09 2007
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:04:09 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <20071214.080409.24684.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

You may be right about the color.
And how many people would know what color the color code meant. So that made
the vin change that mush easier.
_____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3nEnlZVfmwUKqqwp4jIQFXkFSHB
9nzmKvWYE1m3VANWaD4LY/

From bamcnulty at optonline.net  Fri Dec 14 06:08:25 2007
From: bamcnulty at optonline.net (Tony McNulty)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:08:25 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
References: <20071214070951.U4JET.1226.root@fed1wml26.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <002001c83e52$6986ee30$0200a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

I sort of recall that CA wanted to check it all out, as did CT when we moved 
back here --don't remember TX.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <awtiger at cox.net>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>; "A. C. Tynes" <v8tracker at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032


> Oklahoma...yes.  When I bought my '60 Alpine vintage racer out of Nevada, 
> I had to present it to the DMV for VIN inspection before I could title it. 
> That's just the last car I've had to do that with...I had to do the same 
> thing with a Tiger from Colorado many years ago.
>
> Andy Walker
> Edmond, OK
>
> ---- "A. C. Tynes" <v8tracker at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In all the years I spent in the car business and with all the personal
>> titles I've transferred in the last 50 years or so, both from in state 
>> and
>> out of state, I have never had the Louisiana DMV ask to actually see a
>> vehicle.
>>
>> I've had cops and safety inspectors check the VIN plate against the
>> registration, but that was always very cursory and never as part of the
>> titling or registration process.
>>
>> Do other DMV's, such as California's, actually look at the cars as part 
>> of
>> the process?
>>
>> A.C. Tynes
>> New Orleans
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: tigers-bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-
>> > bounces+v8tracker=gmail.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tony McNulty
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:57 PM
>> > To: Tigerman; tigers at autox.team.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
>> >
>> > Gotta wonder how a vehicle with an obviously altered VIN plate can have 
>> > a
>> > "clean title" -- anyone ask the seller that question? ... just a 
>> > thought.
>> >
>> > Tony Mc
>> _______________________________________________
>> awtiger at cox.net
>>
>> Tigers at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> _______________________________________________
> bamcnulty at optonline.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Fri Dec 14 06:16:18 2007
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:16:18 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <20071214.081618.24684.1@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

When I bought my Alpine in Ohio and registered it in New Jersey I had no
problems at all.
Title was transferred without seeing the car and all they did when I had it
inspected by DMV was have me drive around the block to make sure the mileage
was being counted. That's IT.
When I bought my Tiger the Tile had a wrong number in the vin. When I had the
title changed they just ask if I had a picture of the vin plate, which I had
with me and that was that.
_____________________________________________________________
Click here to compare rates and find the best deal on renting a car.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3nMUoErdQupVVOQUm8nIVx0VUju
LpvCJrvp7EM7wgNzwiK9U/

From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Dec 14 07:00:07 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:00:07 EST
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <ce5.231d46b9.3493e667@aol.com>

The  
state policeman stated that the vin tag was correct, the rivets were  
correct, and that the DMV inspector was full of s--t as usual.   However,
 
Now that has got to be one sharp state policeman to recognize  original   
"rivets" from each manufacturer.
Two states that I  am familiar with require an inspection if a car is brought 
in from another  state. But, in one of these states the inspection can be 
done by any law  inforcement person and many of these city cops know absolutely 
nothing about  vins.  They just look at the vin to see if it matches with what 
you are  claiming.
A third state where I have registered a car required no  inspection...just 
bring in a good title.
 
M

 



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From mark.rense at ge.com  Fri Dec 14 07:15:56 2007
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:15:56 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <ce5.231d46b9.3493e667@aol.com>
References: <ce5.231d46b9.3493e667@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A0359C50B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

In the great state of Ohio, any out of state vehicle must be inspected
by the Ohio State Patrol. I recently bought another Norton from Penn.
and had to haul it over to the inspection station. It was somewhat
comical to observe the 20-something trooper try to figure out where the
VIN plate was located, and the fact that it only had six numbers
befuddled him until I pointed out the fact that the bike was from the
'60's. I doubt this lad would have recognized a VIN tag re-rivet.

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: CoolVT at aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 9:00 AM
To: bobbridgeford at msn.com; v8tracker at gmail.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032

The state policeman stated that the vin tag was correct, the rivets were
correct, and that the DMV inspector was full of s--t as usual.
However,
-------------------------------------

Now that has got to be one sharp state policeman to recognize  original
"rivets" from each manufacturer.
T

From lon at sedona.net  Fri Dec 14 08:44:52 2007
From: lon at sedona.net (Lon)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:44:52 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] DMV Inspections
Message-ID: <005101c83e68$4915de70$0d01000a@LONW>

Five years agao I purchased a Lotus 7 race car in CA and brought it to AZ . .
. It was correctly titled and registered in CA,  AZ DMV had no knowledge it
was a race car, but did require an inspection due to age of the vehicle.
Brought it to them on a trailer, and it was OK.  Interesting.

Lon

From bobbridgeford at msn.com  Fri Dec 14 09:42:20 2007
From: bobbridgeford at msn.com (Robert Bridgeford)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:42:20 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <ce5.231d46b9.3493e667@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F34071E05B5EFFD48BA2E60AA670@phx.gbl>

The State Policeman in Oregon who inspects cars does nothing but that
for a great deal of his time. He travels around the state to different 
locations, which is why I had to make an appointment with him 2 weeks out. 
Even though it seems a stretch, I think he probably did know that they were 
at least the proper kind of rivet and the patina of the parts involved was 
appropriate. The DMV people on the other hand, seem to be selected for their 
god-given ability to piss people off. :)


Bob Bridgeford
541 549 9539
Sisters OR 97759




973 (UTC) FILETIME=[A4E7DF50:01C83E59]


The
state policeman stated that the vin tag was correct, the rivets were
correct, and that the DMV inspector was full of s--t as usual.   However,

Now that has got to be one sharp state policeman to recognize  original
"rivets" from each manufacturer.
Two states that I  am familiar with require an inspection if a car is 
brought
in from another  state. But, in one of these states the inspection can be
done by any law  inforcement person and many of these city cops know 
absolutely
nothing about  vins.  They just look at the vin to see if it matches with 
what
you are  claiming.
A third state where I have registered a car required no  inspection...just
bring in a good title.

M





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From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Dec 14 09:57:50 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:57:50 EST
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <c59.1ff8e7c6.3494100e@aol.com>

I think  he probably did know that they were 
at least the proper kind of rivet and  the patina of the parts involved was 
 
I wonder if it isn't the "patina" that they are looking for.   I'm sure a 
professional could recreate something that would pass.  I'd like  to see one of 
these professionals tested on that:-)
M








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From modtiger at comcast.net  Fri Dec 14 10:04:16 2007
From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:04:16 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Tee Handle Shifter
In-Reply-To: <000001c83e06$ed0edfc0$00494546@fabbro>
References: <000001c83e06$ed0edfc0$00494546@fabbro>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20071214085530.044e4038@comcast.net>

At 08:08 PM 12/13/2007, you wrote:
>Hi All.
>
>I am looking for a replacement tee for a broken shifter. I see that
>tiger engineering has shifters with this item on them. I have tried to
>e-mail them (Tom) at 'flyingtiger at tigerengineering.net' but no reply.
>Can any one point out were to find the small piece that goes through the
>top of the shifter. You guys know the part that you have to pull up to
>get the transmission to engage in to reverse. Also the plastic buttons
>that have springs behind them in the base to keep the shifter from
>rattling

You may not get a return from that address as it is the base for our 
web site.  My (Tom) e-mail address is modtiger at comcast.net  Rob's 
address is "Rob Guerra"<tiger351w at comcast.net>
I have a supply of the Tee handles you seek.


Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
www.tigerengineering.net

From arado7 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec 14 12:25:23 2007
From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:25:23 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
References: <ce5.231d46b9.3493e667@aol.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A0359C50B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c83e87$13091ad0$6401a8c0@GMI>

In the same vein, I acquired a Triumph Hurricane, since gone to Australia, 
from New Jersey. Living in Ohio, I took it to the Ohio Title bureau for 
inspection. Young lady was quite knowledgeable and understood the numbers on 
engine and plate. No troopers involved.   Gary  B9472283
Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032


> In the great state of Ohio, any out of state vehicle must be inspected
> by the Ohio State Patrol. I recently bought another Norton from Penn.
> and had to haul it over to the inspection station. It was somewhat
> comical to observe the 20-something trooper try to figure out where the
> VIN plate was located, and the fact that it only had six numbers
> befuddled him until I pointed out the fact that the bike was from the
> '60's. I doubt this lad would have recognized a VIN tag re-rive 

From sigmaengr at carolina.rr.com  Fri Dec 14 14:06:54 2007
From: sigmaengr at carolina.rr.com (Sigma Engineering)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:06:54 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] DMV
References: <ce5.231d46b9.3493e667@aol.com><F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A0359C50B@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
	<000f01c83e87$13091ad0$6401a8c0@GMI>
Message-ID: <001601c83e95$41276850$6601a8c0@Hillenbrand.com>

In SC, every car entering the state has to have the VIN verified to the
out-of-state title....but they will come to your house within 1-2 days &
inspect the car.  The DMV inspector even ventured into my dark car trailer
to look at a car...very pleasant & no problems.
chris

----- Original Message -----
From: <arado7 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd)" <mark.rense at ge.com>;
<tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032


> In the same vein, I acquired a Triumph Hurricane, since gone to Australia,
> from New Jersey. Living in Ohio, I took it to the Ohio Title bureau for
> inspection. Young lady was quite knowledgeable and understood the numbers
on
> engine and plate. No troopers involved.   Gary  B9472283
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
>
>
> > In the great state of Ohio, any out of state vehicle must be inspected
> > by the Ohio State Patrol. I recently bought another Norton from Penn.
> > and had to haul it over to the inspection station. It was somewhat
> > comical to observe the 20-something trooper try to figure out where the
> > VIN plate was located, and the fact that it only had six numbers
> > befuddled him until I pointed out the fact that the bike was from the
> > '60's. I doubt this lad would have recognized a VIN tag re-rive
> _______________________________________________
> sigmaengr at carolina.rr.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From srekate at pacifier.com  Fri Dec 14 14:48:19 2007
From: srekate at pacifier.com (Scott Rekate)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:48:19 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] ebay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <65168651-BEEC-4A44-BD2F-F8622BBCFD15@pacifier.com>

Here in the north west corner of Oregon, after purchasing and  
trailering my Tiger from CA, then applying for a new title and  
registration at the DMV, the lady only needed to see it's original  
title and take a physical  examination of the VIN tag, which by the  
way had been replaced and relocated to the underside of the hood by  
POs. This was after I explained to her that I question the 1967 year  
stated on the title and that I was told it was a 1966 (from ncm).   
She seemed to imply that that didn't matter and the title appeared  
clean. I was sent on my way with a new registration, title, and tags.

BTW:  my tip on purchasing this Tiger as original was the TAC tag  
applied to the proper place.

Scott
B382000659

From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Dec 14 14:57:12 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:57:12 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Authentic Tiger
Message-ID: <cb8.1ffbc737.34945638@aol.com>

It has always been my theory that if a Tiger is created out of an  Alpine 
that the car will be highly restored.  I mean who would go to all of  the trouble 
and expense to try to duplicate the Tiger parts and then not restore  the car 
and get a decent price.
And it's pretty hard to cover  up the new weld marks and  such if you leave 
the paint and other things as original.  Just my  theory. 



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From nospam at tibnet.org  Sat Dec 15 18:23:58 2007
From: nospam at tibnet.org (Greg Tibbetts)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:23:58 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Price climbs on Tigers
In-Reply-To: <001a01c83ceb$46d1b9f0$6401a8c0@pc1>
References: <ce3.1fffa403.349178a4@aol.com>
	<001a01c83ceb$46d1b9f0$6401a8c0@pc1>
Message-ID: <005c01c83f82$55c2b060$01481120$@org>

There was a great cartoon back in the 80's that showed a Pantera driving
through an intersection with a bunch of people standing on the corner
looking at it.  In a bubble above each of their heads was a picture of them
with a big smile driving the Pantera.  The guy driving the Pantera also had
a bubble above his head that showed him standing on the corner with a big
smile watching the Pantera go by....

	Greg

>-----Original Message-----
>On Behalf Of Chris and Jodie
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:18 AM
>To: MWood24020 at aol.com; bobbridgeford at msn.com; Drmoonstone at aol.com;
rande at thecia.net; tigers at autox.team.net
>Subject: Re: [Tigers] Price climbs on Tigers
>
>My brother had two Panteras.
>
>Panteras are always for sale (E-Bay always has at least four) because the 
>build quality between a Tiger and Pantera is miles apart. The people who 
>love them, are most often people who have never owned one. The only way to 
>describe it, is that they are NOT a finished car. Tiger problems are minor 
>and insignificant by comparison. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone 
>ever driving one daily (School, work, etc). There is a reason for 
>that....................
>
>Chris

From AAAGLASSS at aol.com  Sat Dec 15 19:39:27 2007
From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:39:27 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Price climbs on Tigers
Message-ID: <cde.1e81c6ea.3495e9df@aol.com>

Kind of like the two best days of a boat owner, when he buys it and when he  
sells it.



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From Rollright at aol.com  Sun Dec 16 09:47:31 2007
From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:47:31 EST
Subject: [Tigers] metal plugs under seats
Message-ID: <d20.1bb3d50a.3496b0a3@aol.com>

Hello,
 
The 1.5" (approx.) circular metal plugs with loop springs to hold them in  
place have perished on my New England car. One is missing and one has the loop  
spring rusted away. These presumably let out flood waters from the cabin  
floor.....
 
Anybody have an idea how I can replace these?
 
Best holiday regards,
 
Jim  Armstrong
MK 1A  382002083
Rollright at aol.com



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From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Sun Dec 16 12:16:50 2007
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:16:50 EST
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <ce7.240605cf.3496d3a2@aol.com>

Not in CA

Moonstone


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From Drmoonstone at aol.com  Sun Dec 16 12:20:09 2007
From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:20:09 EST
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <cc5.24b01c87.3496d469@aol.com>

Just the opposite 2 weeks ago in Fresno at Dmv, they showed little interest. 
If for some reason DMV in CA requests to see the car for some reason it must 
have the engine in it, but as far as vin plates, all they want is the number.

Moonstone


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From cbowland at msn.com  Sun Dec 16 12:39:07 2007
From: cbowland at msn.com (Curt Bowland)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:39:07 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Link request
Message-ID: <BLU103-DAV8FD1A13B2CE22E2912A97DB610@phx.gbl>

Hi List,

Can the person who posted a link with photos of the Sunbeam at Bonneville
please re-post.

Promise to bookmark the next time.

Thanks,

Curt in Chicago

From Rollright at aol.com  Sun Dec 16 13:43:55 2007
From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:43:55 EST
Subject: [Tigers] metal plugs under seats
Message-ID: <d3d.1c2ad173.3496e80b@aol.com>

Sure
 
But but but.................
 
I was hoping for the Original Recipe Rootes part
 
 
 
Jim  Armstrong
MK 1A  382002083
Rollright at aol.com



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From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sun Dec 16 15:12:54 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:12:54 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] ...body modifications...
In-Reply-To: <474224B9.1020706@cs.com>
References: <d49.172016b3.347356a2@aol.com> <474224B9.1020706@cs.com>
Message-ID: <4765A2E6.80803@SoCal.rr.com>

Randy and  Tigers,

The link reference gives the source, as well as a picture of a Bunny in 
the passenger seat of my car. I quote from the page, and do not know how 
much more specific it can be, with the manufacturer and the Moss Motors 
source and part number:


I had originally purchased an NOS Rootes Factory 3 point belt system. 
Unfortunately, though never opened, time and oxidation had turned the 
black belt purple, and adjustment mechanism was not well designed. I was 
able to locate an American made unit which, I believe, is sold by Moss 
Motors for the MGB. Since the factory is local (Beams Industries Inc., 
10519 South Sunnylane Road, Oklahoma City, OK 73160 (405) 793-1901) a 
referral to local source is likely. The Model Number is CH 600SH, 
#13022. It probably is available in many choices of color, as long as 
it's black.

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Randy Smith wrote:

>Mark-
>
>Actually, there is an article at 
>http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickLaifmanBelts/rt-PaulickLaifmanBelts1.asp <http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickLaifmanBelts/rt-PaulickLaifmanBelts1.asp.> 
>I emailed Larry and he told me the ones he used were bought from 
>Victoria British (one of the few things I got from them that actually 
>worked).  I have lost the part number though.  And it sounds like some 
>folks have found other versions from other sources too.  It's a really 
>easy install and feels a lot safer to me.  Mine have worked great.
>
>-Randy
>
>CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
>  
>
>>Steve L.  Didn't you say that you installed 3 point  retractable belts.  If 
>>so can you elaborate?
>>Mark
>>-- 
>>  
>>    
>>
>
>Randy Smith
>INNER QUEST, Inc.
>34752 Charles Town Pike
>Purcellville, VA  20132
>703-478-1078
>540-668-6699
>540-668-6253 fax
>
>InnerQuestOnline.com <http://www.innerquestonline.com/>
>RSSmithIQ at cs.com
>Tiger- B382000189
>_______________________________________________
>slaifman at socal.rr.com
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sun Dec 16 15:39:29 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:39:29 -0800
Subject: [Tigers]  ...Road Wheels...
In-Reply-To: <4765A2E6.80803@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <d49.172016b3.347356a2@aol.com> <474224B9.1020706@cs.com>
	<4765A2E6.80803@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <4765A921.7040801@SoCal.rr.com>

Belated response to thread on Tiger wheels.

On the Tiger List, for a number of years, there have been many inquires 
about Road Wheels.  TigersUnited.com has an excellent series of Tiger 
owners wheels.  There are 10 pages of information, that may have 
disconnected links, but can be viewed by "Search" and by directly going 
to the 10 pages.

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-wheel.asp

Some rare wheels are shown from well known Tiger enthusiasts, and text 
Tiger List commentary as far back as Aug. 1999 by well regarded, and 
knowledgeable Bob Palmer.

A word of caution, here.  While the wheels shown have been used for some 
time, it should be noted that there are NO new tires that fit a 13" 
wheels with anything like performance characteristics.  I have some 13" 
Michelin X tires on my Silverstone wheels (shown)  They are ONLY made 
for Costco, and must be purchased through them.  They are NOT the 
Michelin X I used to use in the late 50's, and they do not like wet 
roads.  However that may be a California peculiarity, as it doesn't rain 
very often.  That means that the oil on the road surface has been 
collecting for a long time, and the first wetting brings ALL of it to 
the surface.

Even 14" performance tires are disappearing.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Sun Dec 16 16:29:38 2007
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:29:38 +1100
Subject: [Tigers] ...Road Wheels...
In-Reply-To: <4765A921.7040801@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <d49.172016b3.347356a2@aol.com> <474224B9.1020706@cs.com>
	<4765A2E6.80803@SoCal.rr.com> <4765A921.7040801@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0712161529x266449f4w5632b2219cb61b9d@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that there are few performance tyres widely available for 13"
wheels and 14" are goingt he same way, but they are still available.
There are quite a few sources for semi slicks (yokohama, falken, toyo
and bridgestone) and if you do a bit of searching there are a good
selection for all the performance micor cars from asia which run the
same size as our cars.

On 17/12/2007, Steve Laifman <SLaifman at socal.rr.com> wrote:
> Belated response to thread on Tiger wheels.
>
> On the Tiger List, for a number of years, there have been many inquires
> about Road Wheels.  TigersUnited.com has an excellent series of Tiger
> owners wheels.  There are 10 pages of information, that may have
> disconnected links, but can be viewed by "Search" and by directly going
> to the 10 pages.
>
> http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-wheel.asp
>
> Some rare wheels are shown from well known Tiger enthusiasts, and text
> Tiger List commentary as far back as Aug. 1999 by well regarded, and
> knowledgeable Bob Palmer.
>
> A word of caution, here.  While the wheels shown have been used for some
> time, it should be noted that there are NO new tires that fit a 13"
> wheels with anything like performance characteristics.  I have some 13"
> Michelin X tires on my Silverstone wheels (shown)  They are ONLY made
> for Costco, and must be purchased through them.  They are NOT the
> Michelin X I used to use in the late 50's, and they do not like wet
> roads.  However that may be a California peculiarity, as it doesn't rain
> very often.  That means that the oil on the road surface has been
> collecting for a long time, and the first wetting brings ALL of it to
> the surface.
>
> Even 14" performance tires are disappearing.
>
> Steve
>
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
> _______________________________________________
> michael.s.king at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>


-- 
Regards

Michael King

From musta32188 at msn.com  Sun Dec 16 17:21:36 2007
From: musta32188 at msn.com (PHILLIP SILK)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:21:36 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger book
Message-ID: <BAY106-W161A399B044B156916EFC08B620@phx.gbl>

Guys:

Have any of you seen the new Graham Rood book, The Works Tigers?  I just got
my copy from the UK and it's great.  It was a little costly with the exchange
rate and shipping, but well worth it - 400+ pages (with appendixes) of Tiger
racing info.

Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.

Phillip
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!

From michael.s.king at gmail.com  Sun Dec 16 17:40:32 2007
From: michael.s.king at gmail.com (michael king)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:40:32 +1100
Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger book
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-W161A399B044B156916EFC08B620@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-W161A399B044B156916EFC08B620@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <d86d088a0712161640j1f21c901o231145436997faae@mail.gmail.com>

I ordered a copy of this a while back.. shipping to AU was a killer as
was the exchange rate.. I am hoping this is a well made book for the $
as well as having good info and pics. Is it a professional quality
finish?


On 17/12/2007, PHILLIP SILK <musta32188 at msn.com> wrote:
> Guys:
>
> Have any of you seen the new Graham Rood book, The Works Tigers?  I just got
> my copy from the UK and it's great.  It was a little costly with the exchange
> rate and shipping, but well worth it - 400+ pages (with appendixes) of Tiger
> racing info.
>
> Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.
>
> Phillip
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> _______________________________________________
> michael.s.king at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>


-- 
Regards

Michael King

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Sun Dec 16 18:57:02 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:57:02 EST
Subject: [Tigers] ...Road Wheels...
Message-ID: <c73.20c4301b.3497316e@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/16/2007 2:39:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com writes:

While  the wheels shown have been used for some 
time, it should be noted that  there are NO new tires that fit a 13" 
wheels with anything like  performance characteristics. 


I guess it depends on your definition of "performance", as both the Kumho  
V710 and Hoosier A6/R6 are available in 13" sizes...of course, these are pure  
DOT R tires, with just enough surface grooves (2, actually lol) to satisfy the  
letter of the law and not suitable for any type of wet surface use! But, in  
terms of performance, they can't be touched by any other street legal  tire.
 
There is one DOT R which is a perfectly acceptable daily driver, the Toyo  
RA1, also available in a 205/60-13...if I stick with 13" rims, that's what I'll  
be using.
 
Mike



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From ascott at globalplastics.co.zw  Sun Dec 16 22:30:12 2007
From: ascott at globalplastics.co.zw (Athena Scott)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:30:12 +0200
Subject: [Tigers] Engine expert required!
Message-ID: <20071217053820.298211879CD@autox.team.net>

I have cam Number 36 UAX, looks like Ford logo

Con rod A59 BD CF55 C3AE-D

Can anyone tell me what engine these should have come from?  Is it in fact
the 260?

From rjw at wengco.com  Mon Dec 17 06:11:59 2007
From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:11:59 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] EBay
Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C566D9F8@weco1.wengco.com>

I won new carpet for my Tiger a month and a half ago and I lost the name
and address of the seller whom I sent the check to. I have sent several
emails inquiring as to when they would ship the carpet with no response.
They are located in Pataskala, Ohio email britplocat and I think it was
British Parts locater. Does anyone know of them and have a phone #

Thanks



Bob

B382001318LRXFE

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Mon Dec 17 06:54:39 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:54:39 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <cc5.24b01c87.3496d469@aol.com>
References: <cc5.24b01c87.3496d469@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F5A1C@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

 I received a response from the seller for the car( whatever it is) when
I asked if there were photos available underneath or more information.
This is all he said:


"sorry no under side photos, the owner wanted it to look just like a
real tiger. the motor trans and rear where done when he got it. thanks"




Still wish we would see the car up close...
Cullen
B382001452

From mark.rense at ge.com  Mon Dec 17 07:15:04 2007
From: mark.rense at ge.com (Rense, Mark (GE Indust, ConsInd))
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:15:04 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] ...Road Wheels...
In-Reply-To: <c73.20c4301b.3497316e@aol.com>
References: <c73.20c4301b.3497316e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A0359C891@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Do not discount the Sumitomo HTR 200 series, which I believe are based
on the old Dunlop SP's. Available in 13" diameter 175/70, 185/60,
195/60, 205/60 and even 215/50. I am on my second set of 205/60-13 and
they behave well for not being a racing-type tire. I had low
expectations initially from these tires, as I was used to Yokohama
008R's, but for street use they are acceptable. We get lots of rain up
here, I gladly traded cornering adhesion for the ability to stay on the
road during a down pour.  BTW, the Hoosier R6's in 205/60-13 are amazing
if you don't drive in the wet and can afford to replace them twice a
season.

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+mark.rense=ge.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
MWood24020 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:57 PM
To: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] ...Road Wheels...

In a message dated 12/16/2007 2:39:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com writes:

While  the wheels shown have been used for some time, it should be noted
that  there are NO new tires that fit a 13"
wheels with anything like  performance characteristics.


I guess it depends on your definition of "performance", as both the
Kumho
V710 and Hoosier A6/R6 are available in 13" sizes...of course, these are
pure
DOT R tires, with just enough surface grooves (2, actually lol) to
satisfy the
letter of the law and not suitable for any type of wet surface use! But,
in
terms of performance, they can't be touched by any other street legal
tire.

There is one DOT R which is a perfectly acceptable daily driver, the
Toyo
RA1, also available in a 205/60-13...if I stick with 13" rims, that's
what I'll
be using.

Mike

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Mon Dec 17 08:41:33 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:41:33 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] TU XXXI info online
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A00C@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Hi all,
You can now get TU XXXI entry form, and schedule via PDF download from
TigersUnited.com.

<http://www.tigersunited.com/news/TU_31/TU_31.asp>

If anyone has any issues viewing the PDF then let me know... I'm using a
new-to-me PDF converter.

Thanks,
Theo

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Mon Dec 17 10:18:47 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:18:47 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] ...Road Wheels...
References: <c73.20c4301b.3497316e@aol.com>
	<F039BAF0D766724ABE5A33EEDB320E5A0359C891@LOUMLVEM03.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <002201c840d0$e323ab40$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

>>>Do not discount the Sumitomo HTR 200 series,<<<

I would second that. I run them on my '73 Plymouth Valiant (215-60-15) and
my '73 Datsun 510 (205-50-13). For the money they are a VERY good value.
Someday when I get to buying tires for my Tiger I'll most likely get a set
of HTR 200's for it too.
Tom Witt

From Rollright at aol.com  Mon Dec 17 13:03:42 2007
From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:03:42 EST
Subject: [Tigers] drain hole plugs under seats
Message-ID: <d3e.1ccd6e9d.3498301e@aol.com>

Hello,
 
Seems like there is no easy source for new originals for these.
 
Does anybody have any used serviceable ones they'd like to sell?
 
 
Jim  Armstrong
MK 1A  382002083
Rollright at aol.com



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From sunbeamjohn at msn.com  Mon Dec 17 15:48:15 2007
From: sunbeamjohn at msn.com (sunbeam john)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:48:15 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay 66 M1A
Message-ID: <BAY114-W2928EF854A77710CBC1BDA5620@phx.gbl>

Does anyone have any information on ebay 220184237145 M1A Tiger. Hard to tell
from the pictures if this is a real Tiger. VIN number is B382000591 the car is
in CO but was a CA car any help would be appreicated.

John

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Mon Dec 17 16:27:32 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:27:32 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Trouble getting it in?
Message-ID: <476705E4.3090706@SoCal.rr.com>

If you are having trouble getting in your car seat, here is an 
interesting design approach.  Believe this may be a Lincoln LS that uses 
the Jaguar Chassis, Suspension, V-8 engine, etc. as my 2005 Ford 
Thunderbird.  Play the movie.

http://www.disappearing-car-door.com/


-- 
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Mon Dec 17 16:36:04 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:36:04 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Trouble getting it in?
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A018@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Cool! I want everybody _else_ to have them... I don't need any more door
dings.

;)

Theo

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 17 18:53:40 2007
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:53:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Trouble getting it in?
In-Reply-To: <476705E4.3090706@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <97001.30604.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The sample car look like a Lincoln Mk VIII (not the LS/Jag S-type
platform), but that would be the same platform as the last four seater
T-Bird/Cougar rear drive cars.

I wonder how those doors work if the battery is dead or if the car is
covered in snow / freezing rain.

--- Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com> wrote:

> If you are having trouble getting in your car seat, here is an 
> interesting design approach.  Believe this may be a Lincoln LS that
> uses 
> the Jaguar Chassis, Suspension, V-8 engine, etc. as my 2005 Ford 
> Thunderbird.  Play the movie.
> 
> http://www.disappearing-car-door.com/
> 
> 
> -- 
> ___
> Steve Laifman
> Editor - TigersUnited.com
> _______________________________________________
> gswaybright at yahoo.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From jbbrown3 at tx.rr.com  Mon Dec 17 19:51:52 2007
From: jbbrown3 at tx.rr.com (Joe Brown)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:51:52 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] FW:  Trouble getting it in?
Message-ID: <20071218025144.GPQG29909.mta11.adelphia.net@OfficePC>

I noticed on the website that everything is dated 1994 or 1995 and the car
is a Lincoln MkVIII.  Wonder whatever happened to this technology.

Joe Brown

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jbbrown3=tx.rr.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jbbrown3=tx.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve
Laifman
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 5:28 PM
To: Tiger's Den
Subject: [Tigers] Trouble getting it in?

If you are having trouble getting in your car seat, here is an 
interesting design approach.  Believe this may be a Lincoln LS that uses 
the Jaguar Chassis, Suspension, V-8 engine, etc. as my 2005 Ford 
Thunderbird.  Play the movie.

http://www.disappearing-car-door.com/


-- 
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com
_______________________________________________
jbbrown3 at tx.rr.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
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From tgrrr at peoplepc.com  Mon Dec 17 21:12:37 2007
From: tgrrr at peoplepc.com (Bob Hokanson)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:12:37 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] TU XXXI info online
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A00C@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <006601c8412c$3c8d2a70$9719f304@bob>

Theo,

Is that a misprint of the times for Saturday's Schedule of Events?

I mean if the AutoX is from 8:00- 5:00 and the Hospitality Room will be 
closed from 5:00- 10:00 then you can't get a free beer until 10:00 pm after 
spending all day out on the hot tarmac?  I mean there is planning and there 
is planning!

Bob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Smit, Theo" <Theo.Smit at dynastream.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:41 AM
Subject: [Tigers] TU XXXI info online


> Hi all,
> You can now get TU XXXI entry form, and schedule via PDF download from
> TigersUnited.com.
>
> <http://www.tigersunited.com/news/TU_31/TU_31.asp>
>
> If anyone has any issues viewing the PDF then let me know... I'm using a
> new-to-me PDF converter.
>
> Thanks,
> Theo

From BuckTrippel at Verizon.net  Mon Dec 17 23:16:43 2007
From: BuckTrippel at Verizon.net (Buck Trippel)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:16:43 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] TU XXXI info online
References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A00C@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
	<006601c8412c$3c8d2a70$9719f304@bob>
Message-ID: <000701c8413d$8fa3db30$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75>

Bob,

The event is 6 months away and you're already planning when you can get free 
beer?

Just how "dry" is Idaho this time of year?  ;-)

Or, considering how you ran at Grants Pass, are already planning the 
celebration?

Regardless, Good Luck!
(and I've already forwarded your schedule comment to TU Chairman Darrell 
Mountjoy.)

Buck Trippel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Hokanson" <tgrrr at peoplepc.com>
To: "Tigers" <tigers at autox.team.net>; "Smit, Theo" 
<Theo.Smit at dynastream.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] TU XXXI info online


> Theo,
>
> Is that a misprint of the times for Saturday's Schedule of Events?
>
> I mean if the AutoX is from 8:00- 5:00 and the Hospitality Room will be
> closed from 5:00- 10:00 then you can't get a free beer until 10:00 pm 
> after
> spending all day out on the hot tarmac?  I mean there is planning and 
> there
> is planning!
>
> Bob

From wowens at dslextreme.com  Mon Dec 17 23:44:24 2007
From: wowens at dslextreme.com (Windsor Owens)
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:44:24 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 195
In-Reply-To: <mailman.39139.1197899936.12556.tigers@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.39139.1197899936.12556.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001e01c84141$6dbf6a80$800101df@WOWENS>

Thanks for the link, Steve-I just saw an old post of mine asking this very
same question!

Anyhow, over the years I've found out where to get excellent 13"
high-performance tires.  I use Toyo Proxes RA1's.  I have those on my Tiger,
and Sumitomo HTR 200's on my old beemer.  I like the Toyo's much more.  The
Sumi's slide sooner and start making squeeling sounds the minute you turn
the wheel.
The Toyo's are available @ Sears Point:

http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?Unique=39433.9477546296&ObjectID=665
0


The upside to the sumi's is they will last a lot longer.
My Toyo's have lasted probably about 4000-5000 miles; not long, but every
mile was a blast!

Windsor 





>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 14:39:29 -0800
From: Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com>
Subject: [Tigers]  ...Road Wheels...
Cc: Tiger's Den <tigers at autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <4765A921.7040801 at SoCal.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Belated response to thread on Tiger wheels.

On the Tiger List, for a number of years, there have been many inquires 
about Road Wheels.  TigersUnited.com has an excellent series of Tiger 
owners wheels.  There are 10 pages of information, that may have 
disconnected links, but can be viewed by "Search" and by directly going 
to the 10 pages.

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/tech_threads/tt-wheel.asp

Some rare wheels are shown from well known Tiger enthusiasts, and text 
Tiger List commentary as far back as Aug. 1999 by well regarded, and 
knowledgeable Bob Palmer.

A word of caution, here.  While the wheels shown have been used for some 
time, it should be noted that there are NO new tires that fit a 13" 
wheels with anything like performance characteristics.  I have some 13" 
Michelin X tires on my Silverstone wheels (shown)  They are ONLY made 
for Costco, and must be purchased through them.  They are NOT the 
Michelin X I used to use in the late 50's, and they do not like wet 
roads.  However that may be a California peculiarity, as it doesn't rain 
very often.  That means that the oil on the road surface has been 
collecting for a long time, and the first wetting brings ALL of it to 
the surface.

Even 14" performance tires are disappearing.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From Carmods at aol.com  Tue Dec 18 07:37:03 2007
From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:37:03 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Trouble getting in
Message-ID: <d30.1fee4309.3499350f@aol.com>

That is an interesting car door. It eliminates the structure of the  rocker 
panels which are very important in a unitized body car. They don't  mention 
that.
 
John Logan




**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Tue Dec 18 10:08:43 2007
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:08:43 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Hidden Gem?
Message-ID: <OFE44A4DBA.59CF7B1C-ON882573B5.005DBE29-882573B5.005E2EC6@countrywide.com>

Here is a link to a Porsche 912 that just sold for probably the highest 
ever obtained for a 912, $34,000.  http://1969porsche912.com/

Now why am I posting this here?  There is no doubt in my mind that no self 
respecting Tiger owner, who will admit liking anything to do with 
Porsches, is going to care for anything less than a 6 cylinder, and 
probably a turbocharged one at that - but certainly not a four banger 
based on the 356.  No, I'm posting it because if you look at the fourth to 
last picture, there appears to be a Tiger in the garage!  Anyone here know 
of either cars?

Jay



======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

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From alittlemoreink at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 18 10:39:38 2007
From: alittlemoreink at hotmail.com (John Crawley)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:39:38 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Test
Message-ID: <BAY127-W6E63C7854C06C97E1D424DB630@phx.gbl>

hi:
Trying to connect again
jc


_________________________________________________________________
Use fowl language with Chicktionary. Click here to start playing!
http://puzzles.sympatico.msn.ca/chicktionary/index.html?icid=htmlsig

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Tue Dec 18 10:43:11 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:43:11 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Hidden Gem?
References: <OFE44A4DBA.59CF7B1C-ON882573B5.005DBE29-882573B5.005E2EC6@countrywide.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c8419d$7702c400$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

Jay,
 At first I thought you were looking at a 914 parked backwards in the
garage. You know, at a distance, in the dark, the Tiger tail lights vertical
oval looking like the 914 turn signals. Anyway, I put the picture into
Photoshop lightened it and enlarger it. It does look like a Tiger (or
Alpine) except there seems to be a thin line of body trim under the words. I
also count 7 letters in the wording.
Sorry, don't know whose car it is, but it sure does look like a Sunbeam
Tiger or Alpine.
Tom Witt

From mtjoy at telis.org  Tue Dec 18 12:23:55 2007
From: mtjoy at telis.org (Mountjoy)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:23:55 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] free beer
Message-ID: <01a201c841ab$88866020$1db90c45@computer>

Free beer?  FREE BEER??  Don't care if it's 6 months away- free beer is free
beer !  Bob, Buck,  I like your style.  ...and yes, we're not waiting for any
silly 10:00 for free beer !  I'll even pop the tops !!   (Gee I hope we're not
out of free beer by 10:00.  :>))

Thanks, Bob.

Darrell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Buck Trippel" <BuckTrippel at Verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] TU XXXI info online


Bob,

The event is 6 months away and you're already planning when you can get free
beer?
Just how "dry" is Idaho this time of year?  ;-)
Or, considering how you ran at Grants Pass, are already planning the
celebration?
Regardless, Good Luck!
(and I've already forwarded your schedule comment to TU Chairman Darrell
Mountjoy.)

Buck Trippel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hokanson" <tgrrr at peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] TU XXXI info online

> Theo,
>
> Is that a misprint of the times for Saturday's Schedule of Events?
>
> I mean if the AutoX is from 8:00- 5:00 and the Hospitality Room will be
> closed from 5:00- 10:00 then you can't get a free beer until 10:00 pm
> after spending all day out on the hot tarmac?  I mean there is planning and
> there is planning!
>
> Bob
----------------------------

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Tue Dec 18 13:12:28 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:12:28 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] ...NEW Road Wheels...
In-Reply-To: <4765A921.7040801@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <d49.172016b3.347356a2@aol.com> <474224B9.1020706@cs.com>
	<4765A2E6.80803@SoCal.rr.com> <4765A921.7040801@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <476829AC.9060106@SoCal.rr.com>

Tigers,

With all the added information on specialty tires, I thought we ought to 
be entering the New Age of tire design.

Take a look at this site (And Google) for the latest in road wheel 
design.  I do NOT know if they make one in 13" rims, or Tiger bolt 
pattern.  The concept is revolutionary, as the Michelin Steel Belt 
radial tires were.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/050202.htm

<>___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Tue Dec 18 13:26:55 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:26:55 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] ...NEW Road Wheels...
References: <d49.172016b3.347356a2@aol.com> <474224B9.1020706@cs.com>
	<4765A2E6.80803@SoCal.rr.com> <4765A921.7040801@SoCal.rr.com>
	<476829AC.9060106@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <005101c841b4$5cd5e6e0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

Interesting... . I'm sure the concept could provide benefits, but being "old
school" I'm left to wonder how one will "tune" their car without the
simplicity of adjustable tire pressures? I guess with every new improvement
there is give and take. Maybe "ride control" will do it all for us.
 By the way, Steve, it's good to see you back again. Hope you're doing
better.
Tom

From PhastPhill at aol.com  Tue Dec 18 14:02:36 2007
From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:02:36 EST
Subject: [Tigers] ...Road Wheels...
Message-ID: <cad.2297781b.34998f6c@aol.com>

I'm happy with the Sumitomo 200's on my car. Work pretty good for a street  
tire.

From drjev at dccnet.com  Tue Dec 18 14:55:43 2007
From: drjev at dccnet.com (drjev)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:55:43 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [Tigers] Motorola / world radio
References: <01a201c841ab$88866020$1db90c45@computer>
Message-ID: <476841DE.000007.00604@DIANE-72F68793C>

Hi Listers,

Has anyone out there ever converted a Motorola/world radio from positive
ground to negative ground ??
Is it possible to do or is it just a myth?.
John

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of faint_grain.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of IMSTP9.gif]

From bobdixon at frii.com  Tue Dec 18 15:12:01 2007
From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:12:01 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Tigers] Crossmember reinforcement
Message-ID: <59100.192.55.12.36.1198015921.squirrel@users.frii.com>

Hello gang,

I'm quite sure there are articles out there, I just can't find them.  Does
anyone have a link or pdf or ?? detailing where Tiger crossmembers need
strengthening?

Thanks,
Bob

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Tue Dec 18 15:17:23 2007
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:17:23 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Crossmember reinforcement
In-Reply-To: <59100.192.55.12.36.1198015921.squirrel@users.frii.com>
References: <59100.192.55.12.36.1198015921.squirrel@users.frii.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0712181417g41b3f803yfa574fa65467be8d@mail.gmail.com>

i'd be interested in that too.  can't get my alignment to the spec i want....

On Dec 18, 2007 10:12 PM, Bob Dixon <bobdixon at frii.com> wrote:
> Hello gang,
>
> I'm quite sure there are articles out there, I just can't find them.  Does
> anyone have a link or pdf or ?? detailing where Tiger crossmembers need
> strengthening?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Tue Dec 18 15:32:28 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:32:28 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Motorola / world radio
References: <01a201c841ab$88866020$1db90c45@computer>
	<476841DE.000007.00604@DIANE-72F68793C>
Message-ID: <00c701c841c5$df3f75e0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

Maybe if it didn't touch anything metal in the car and you used plastic
mounts it is possible. Remember too that the antenna outer shield runs to
ground too. So that would have to be isolated as well.
Tom

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Tue Dec 18 15:43:05 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:43:05 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Motorola / world radio
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A026@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

Doing it right would involve opening the case, and isolating every place
where the positive supply touched the case. Connect a separate power
lead to those spots, hook the negative to the chassis and you're good to
go. Check for a short circuit between the positive and negative
connections before you apply power...

The relative difficulty of doing this would depend greatly on the way
that the radio was constructed, so I can't make any comments more
specific than that.

Theo

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Tue Dec 18 15:46:35 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:46:35 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Crossmember reinforcement
References: <59100.192.55.12.36.1198015921.squirrel@users.frii.com>
Message-ID: <00d201c841c7$d89fae60$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

There are a number of articles. One was by John Crawley and the other by
John Logan dealing specifically with the crossmember. I can't find the
Crawley article. It mainly focused on reinforcing the "U" bend in the center
of the crossmember. There are a number of other Tiger front end related
articles below.

This is the Logan article:
http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/LoganFulcrum/pt-LoganFulcrum1.asp

This regards ball joints and fulcrum pins by Tom Hall
http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/th-ub/STOAbushings1.asp

There is also these two by Larry Paulick:
http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickAckerman/pt-PaulickAckerman1.asp

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickAlign/pt-PaulickAlign1.asp

Tom

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Tue Dec 18 15:55:56 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:55:56 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Crossmember reinforcement
Message-ID: <d5b.179b5e87.3499a9fc@aol.com>

If you want the most comprehensive information on failure areas and fixes,  
contact Tom Hall directly. 
 
The crossmember, itself, may just be the starting place in  getting that 
front end "square to the world".
 
Mike



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Tue Dec 18 18:49:14 2007
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:49:14 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Hidden Gem?
Message-ID: <OF5E396590.12B064A2-ON882573B6.0009B122-882573B6.000A0077@countrywide.com>

Tom Witt wrote:

"Jay,
 At first I thought you were looking at a 914 parked backwards in the
garage. You know, at a distance, in the dark, the Tiger tail lights 
vertical
oval looking like the 914 turn signals. Anyway, I put the picture into
Photoshop lightened it and enlarger it. It does look like a Tiger (or
Alpine) except there seems to be a thin line of body trim under the words. 
I
also count 7 letters in the wording.
Sorry, don't know whose car it is, but it sure does look like a Sunbeam
Tiger or Alpine."

Wow, great sleuthing.  On the line under the letters, when I look at the 
picture unaltered, it just looks like a light reflection that runs across 
the back, and even over to the fin.  I also noticed the square mirror on 
the windshield and the extra round Talbot? on the right.  The reason I 
though it might be a Tiger is mostly because its height relative to the 
ground appears to make it look a bit lowered - more of a Tiger stance than 
and Alpine stance.  Other than that (unless that square convex mirror was 
never on an Alpine), it does appear impossible to tell.

Jay

======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

======================================================================

From tgrrr at peoplepc.com  Tue Dec 18 21:58:29 2007
From: tgrrr at peoplepc.com (Bob Hokanson)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:58:29 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] free beer
References: <01a201c841ab$88866020$1db90c45@computer>
Message-ID: <003901c841fb$cce3ff70$341ff304@bob>

Have to confess (moocher that I am and free beer is of the most sacrosant) 
it was my son that set top time of day at TU XXX, albeit with my car (on 
Hoosier A6's).  Alas, Ive gotten old and slow and have been unable to beat 
him in several years now, however if I were to go into training.... who 
knows?

Bob H

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buck Trippel" <BuckTrippel at Verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] TU XXXI info online
>
>
> Bob,
>
> The event is 6 months away and you're already planning when you can get 
> free
> beer?
> Just how "dry" is Idaho this time of year?  ;-)
> Or, considering how you ran at Grants Pass, are already planning the
> celebration?
> Regardless, Good Luck!
> (and I've already forwarded your schedule comment to TU Chairman Darrell
> Mountjoy.)
>
> Buck Trippel

From garywinblad at comcast.net  Wed Dec 19 07:11:48 2007
From: garywinblad at comcast.net (garywinblad at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:11:48 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Hidden Gem?
Message-ID: <121920071411.26365.476926A400076435000066FD22165579960B0E040D020799979D0E09@comcast.net>

You guys had me curious so I took a look.
YES, it looks Tiger/Alpine to me.
I agree with Jay, it is just a very shiny Tiger/Alpine.
The square mirror would make it a MK1 (like mine) or a Series IV.
You can see it has the original steering wheel and horn ring too.
I don't see how you can see it looks lowered though...

Gary

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com
> Tom Witt wrote:
> 
> "Jay,
>  At first I thought you were looking at a 914 parked backwards in the
> garage. You know, at a distance, in the dark, the Tiger tail lights 
> vertical
> oval looking like the 914 turn signals. Anyway, I put the picture into
> Photoshop lightened it and enlarger it. It does look like a Tiger (or
> Alpine) except there seems to be a thin line of body trim under the words. 
> I
> also count 7 letters in the wording.
> Sorry, don't know whose car it is, but it sure does look like a Sunbeam
> Tiger or Alpine."
> 
> Wow, great sleuthing.  On the line under the letters, when I look at the 
> picture unaltered, it just looks like a light reflection that runs across 
> the back, and even over to the fin.  I also noticed the square mirror on 
> the windshield and the extra round Talbot? on the right.  The reason I 
> though it might be a Tiger is mostly because its height relative to the 
> ground appears to make it look a bit lowered - more of a Tiger stance than 
> and Alpine stance.  Other than that (unless that square convex mirror was 
> never on an Alpine), it does appear impossible to tell.
> 
> Jay

From mrlau at charter.net  Wed Dec 19 08:44:28 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:44:28 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  free beer
Message-ID: <20071219154330.QWBB14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

Are you talking about drinking beer or racing? -- Bill --

Subject: Re: [Tigers] free beer

Have to confess (moocher that I am and free beer is of the most sacrosant) 
it was my son that set top time of day at TU XXX, albeit with my car (on 
Hoosier A6's).  Alas, Ive gotten old and slow and have been unable to beat 
him in several years now, however if I were to go into training.... who 
knows?

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Wed Dec 19 09:10:33 2007
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:10:33 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Hidden Gem?
In-Reply-To: <121920071411.26365.476926A400076435000066FD22165579960B0E040D020799979D0E09@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <OF54DBD582.9CE3FE7C-ON882573B6.005860CE-882573B6.0058DB8B@countrywide.com>

Well, according to Whois, the website is owned by Scott Shulman of 
Florida.  I've sent him an e-mail.  We'll see.

Maybe it doesn't look lowered to you as you are used to seeing Tigers not 
Alpines!  Yeah, I know they are supposed to be close to the same ride 
height.  But, with 300 more pounds up front causing more sagging of the 
springs after 40 years, and more often than Alpines, lower profile tires, 
it's my observation that they tend to sit a little lower.  In that 
picture, yes I can't see the whole thing.  But, from the perspective with 
the ground plain, it looks like it's lower to me.  Probably just an 
illusion.

Jay

======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

======================================================================

From mtjoy at telis.org  Wed Dec 19 10:20:12 2007
From: mtjoy at telis.org (Mountjoy)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:20:12 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] free beer
Message-ID: <003501c84263$6a5acbf0$1db90c45@computer>

Hmmmm.  t'wasn't you who set top time?  That's okay !  It just gives us more
time for free beer and good bench racing!!

Darrell

---original message------
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:58:29 -0800
From: "Bob Hokanson" <tgrrr at peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] free beer


Have to confess (moocher that I am and free beer is of the most sacrosant)
it was my son that set top time of day at TU XXX, albeit with my car (on
Hoosier A6's).  Alas, Ive gotten old and slow and have been unable to beat
him in several years now, however if I were to go into training.... who
knows?

Bob H

From landcmitch at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 15:16:33 2007
From: landcmitch at aol.com (landcmitch at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:16:33 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <8CA10A3F281C7E2-E98-2ACA@WEBMAIL-DG08>

Russo and Steele have a nice Tiger on consignment next month in Scottsdale.? Anybody want to start a pool to see what it goes for?

www.russoandsteele.com

Charlie
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Wed Dec 19 15:23:46 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:23:46 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
In-Reply-To: <8CA10A3F281C7E2-E98-2ACA@WEBMAIL-DG08>
References: <8CA10A3F281C7E2-E98-2ACA@WEBMAIL-DG08>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662ECAB@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

 I think we discussed this Tiger a few months ago. Dale Ak...ski built
this car for a guy named Scott Lempert, who, from what I understand was
the son of some rich business man or lawyer or something. Dale poured
his heart and soul into the car, along with obviously a lot of $$$$, and
then had a falling out with the client. There is some history there, for
sure. I believe this car was for sale in Hemmings for awhile for 125
grand(?).

One lister said months ago, "Ian Garrad meets Boyd Coddington". Funny
way to put it. Obviously a very custom car.

I'll bet it doesn't sell of for the 125, but I'll bet it brings a pretty
penny. I'd like to post a guess....






------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Russo and Steele have a nice Tiger on consignment next month in
Scottsdale.? Anybody want to start a pool to see what it goes for?

www.russoandsteele.com

Charlie

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Wed Dec 19 15:40:27 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:40:27 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
References: <8CA10A3F281C7E2-E98-2ACA@WEBMAIL-DG08>
Message-ID: <009f01c84290$275d2a00$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

Not every car looks good in 18" wheels. Kind of reminds me of those very
early trucks with solid rubber tires (less the chrome). Otherwise, it is an
"over the top" car..., if you like it - and can afford it.
Tom

From sganz at pacbell.net  Wed Dec 19 15:43:49 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:43:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <82307.73718.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Will they take a personal out of state check from my brother...

Sandy

----- Original Message ----
From: Cullen McCann <CMcCann at lwpb.com>
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 2:23:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Russo and Steele

I think we discussed this Tiger a few months ago. Dale Ak...ski built
this car for a guy named Scott Lempert, who, from what I understand was
the son of some rich business man or lawyer or something. Dale poured
his heart and soul into the car, along with obviously a lot of $$$$, and
then had a falling out with the client. There is some history there, for
sure. I believe this car was for sale in Hemmings for awhile for 125
grand(?).

One lister said months ago, "Ian Garrad meets Boyd Coddington". Funny
way to put it. Obviously a very custom car.

I'll bet it doesn't sell of for the 125, but I'll bet it brings a pretty
penny. I'd like to post a guess....






------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Russo and Steele have a nice Tiger on consignment next month in
Scottsdale.? Anybody want to start a pool to see what it goes for?

www.russoandsteele.com

Charlie
_______________________________________________
sganz at pacbell.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 15:46:08 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:46:08 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <c1c.2682025c.349af930@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/19/2007 2:44:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
sganz at pacbell.net writes:

There is  some history there, for
sure.


 
I think that may be an understatement...
 
;-)



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From atwittsend at verizon.net  Wed Dec 19 15:52:45 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:52:45 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele (more)
References: <8CA10A3F281C7E2-E98-2ACA@WEBMAIL-DG08>
Message-ID: <00b801c84291$df66b340$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

One other thing. The ad states over $250K invested. At that price I'd rather
have a Harrington and a prototype or two. I'm sure there are many
combinations of significant Tigers (intentionally plural) that are more
noteworthy that owning #80. That's not a knock on Dale's work, but a "head
scratcher" regarding the person who original funded the project.
 Tom ("Suburban Poor" Tiger owner and proud of every scraped knuckle)

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Wed Dec 19 15:55:09 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:55:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A02D@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I think this is a car you'd have to see in person to determine whether
it looks right (to you) or not. The proportions have been changed by the
fact that the windshield is chopped and the rear fender openings (maybe
the fronts, too) are cut upwards to suit the wheel/tire diameter and the
way the car is lowered.
When you look at Tigers or Alpines generally you understand the shape
and size of things on a gut level because you've stood beside or sat
inside the car. Looking at pictures of this one breaks that perspective,
because the relative sizes of things you think you're familiar with are
not the same.

My opinion: I would have still had the center bar in the grille opening.
Maybe something reshaped and formed out of a solid aluminum forging
(just to keep with the aesthetic of the rest of the car) but it needs
something in there.

Theo

From BEAU2EVE at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 17:34:11 2007
From: BEAU2EVE at aol.com (BEAU2EVE at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:34:11 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Front ends
Message-ID: <cb4.25e419aa.349b1283@aol.com>

Hi everyone, and happy holidays to boot, question, does anyone recall  the 
name of the gentlemen that has manufactured a new front end for his  Tiger?  I 
seem to recall he had adjustable upper control arms and  coil over shock set up 
incorporated in this unit, it seemed pretty  interesting.       
   
 
                 Beau 9470951



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From jim at island.net  Wed Dec 19 17:50:42 2007
From: jim at island.net (Jim)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:50:42 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Front ends
In-Reply-To: <cb4.25e419aa.349b1283@aol.com>
Message-ID: <04b501c842a2$59301e40$0300a8c0@GatewayAMD3500>

You can see that suspension here...   http://www.toyzjunkie.com/

I have one on order and have seen it in person...VERY nice setup ...
Mike Hokanson builds it and set FTD at the TUXXX with one installed in his
dad's car...



Jim
B382000446



Hi everyone, and happy holidays to boot, question, does anyone recall  the 
name of the gentlemen that has manufactured a new front end for his  Tiger?
I 
seem to recall he had adjustable upper control arms and  coil over shock set
up 
incorporated in this unit, it seemed pretty  interesting.       
   
 
                 Beau 9470951



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_______________________________________________
jim at island.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From fastsage at cox.net  Wed Dec 19 18:16:47 2007
From: fastsage at cox.net (Steve Sage)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:16:47 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
In-Reply-To: <8CA10A3F281C7E2-E98-2ACA@WEBMAIL-DG08>
References: <8CA10A3F281C7E2-E98-2ACA@WEBMAIL-DG08>
Message-ID: <4769C27F.2080509@cox.net>

landcmitch at aol.com wrote:
> Russo and Steele have a nice Tiger on consignment next month in Scottsdale.? Anybody want to start a pool to see what it goes for?
>
> www.russoandsteele.com
>
> Charlie
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> fastsage at cox.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
>   
I can't find the car on their site. How do I find it?

 From the description, I saw this car at Dale's shop when it was about 
partially done. A very custom job.

Steve Sage

From sganz at pacbell.net  Wed Dec 19 18:51:50 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:51:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <236588.12803.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1965_sunbeam_tiger_shelby_convertible/7401.html

Is the link from the site.

Sandy

----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Sage <fastsage at cox.net>
To: landcmitch at aol.com
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:16:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Russo and Steele

landcmitch at aol.com wrote:
> Russo and Steele have a nice Tiger on consignment next month in Scottsdale.? Anybody want to start a pool to see what it goes for?
>
> www.russoandsteele.com
>
> Charlie
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> fastsage at cox.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
>  
I can't find the car on their site. How do I find it?

>From the description, I saw this car at Dale's shop when it was about 
partially done. A very custom job.

Steve Sage
_______________________________________________
sganz at pacbell.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 18:59:34 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:59:34 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <ca1.1fe77020.349b2686@aol.com>

What's with the "Shelby" stuff? ;-)
 
And, that's after I sent Russo and Steele an email regarding the  sketchy 
"Shelby" connections being made (and some other items), which  resulted in the 
seller's description being thoroughly changed...before,  the description had 
more "Shelby" than "Sunbeam" content!!
 
Signed,
Waiting for the auction fad to pass in Alamo, CA



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From MWood24020 at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 19:02:18 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:02:18 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <c15.287d147.349b272a@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/19/2007 6:00:11 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
MWood24020 at aol.com writes:

What's  with the "Shelby" stuff? ;-)

And, that's after I sent Russo and Steele  an email regarding the  sketchy 
"Shelby" connections being made (and  some other items), which  resulted in 
the 
seller's description being  thoroughly changed...before,  the description had 
more "Shelby" than  "Sunbeam" content!!

Signed,



Actually, they've pulled even more of the "Shelby content" out of the  
description...I wonder if the fired up attorneys at Shelby American had anything  to 
do with that?
 
 



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From mrlau at charter.net  Wed Dec 19 19:26:42 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:26:42 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <20071220022544.SQOP17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

I'm game to start the guesses.  I say it will go for about $80,000 even
though a lot more labor and material was put into it. -- Bill --


1.  Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000

Is the link from the site.

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 19:31:29 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:31:29 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <c29.276550cd.349b2e01@aol.com>

I think $80,000 could be a very good guess...of course, once R&S starts  
priming the pump with free booze, maybe it hits $100,000?  :-)



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From CoolVT at aol.com  Wed Dec 19 19:34:32 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:34:32 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <c1a.2b96daf7.349b2eb8@aol.com>

I agree with you Bill, I think that's a good price considering  everything.  
I think it would do better if there were a few other Tigers in  the auction.  
Then, possibly, buyers might think that it's a popular  car:-)
I think the problem is that there are a bunch of good Mustangs in  this 
auction that will go for about that price and we are in a Mustang  craze.  Never 
know, all it takes is 2 people who want the same car.  I  think it was last year 
at the BJ auction that 2 people wanted one of those  amphibian cars that came 
up.  I think it went for around $100,000.   The ones in the same condition 
that have sold at auction  since brought around $25,000-$30,000. 



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From mrlau at charter.net  Wed Dec 19 19:37:06 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:37:06 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <20071220023608.TEYV17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

If this is your calculated observance, write it in with your name under
number 2. and say ---Next guess-- We need something to do here in the
Midwest because it is cold outside. -- Bill --

I think $80,000 could be a very good guess...of course, once R&S starts  
priming the pump with free booze, maybe it hits $100,000?  :-)

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 19 19:39:29 2007
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:39:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele (more)
In-Reply-To: <00b801c84291$df66b340$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>
Message-ID: <877738.35390.qm@web31708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The thing to know is that Mr Lampert is the guy that designed the
interior of the BMW Z8 (see his portfolio @
http://www.coroflot.com/public/individual_details.asp?job_seeker_id=30575&t=&display_portfolio=yes).


He must like Tigers and wanted one that had his own personal design
touch (sans the center mounted speedo). Before this car, I figured my
car or Vanderpoole's was at the top of Dale's restomod Tiger work. This
goes way beyond our cars. Seems odd that he'd sell it... though if I
could get half what he says is invested, I'd let my Tiger go. 

If his sells well, I may be open to offers.  ;)

Stephen Waybright

--- Thomas Witt <atwittsend at verizon.net> wrote:

> One other thing. The ad states over $250K invested. At that price I'd
> rather
> have a Harrington and a prototype or two. I'm sure there are many
> combinations of significant Tigers (intentionally plural) that are
> more
> noteworthy that owning #80. That's not a knock on Dale's work, but a
> "head
> scratcher" regarding the person who original funded the project.
>  Tom ("Suburban Poor" Tiger owner and proud of every scraped knuckle)

From sunbeamjohn at msn.com  Wed Dec 19 21:46:09 2007
From: sunbeamjohn at msn.com (sunbeam john)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:46:09 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
In-Reply-To: <20071220023608.TEYV17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>
References: <20071220023608.TEYV17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <BAY114-W25012778360C8A25D0BD25A55D0@phx.gbl>

And the booze is free to all bidders.
sunbeamjohn> From: mrlau at charter.net> To: tigers at autox.team.net> Date: Wed, 19
Dec 2007 20:37:06 -0600> Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele> > If this is your
calculated observance, write it in with your name under> number 2. and say
---Next guess-- We need something to do here in the> Midwest because it is
cold outside. -- Bill --> > I think $80,000 could be a very good guess...of
course, once R&S starts > priming the pump with free booze, maybe it hits
$100,000? :-)> _______________________________________________>
sunbeamjohn at msn.com> > Tigers at autox.team.net>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From hokey at oasisol.com  Thu Dec 20 00:51:28 2007
From: hokey at oasisol.com (Mike Hokanson)
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:51:28 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] New Tiger Suspension
Message-ID: <000e01c842dd$215c93a0$0506a8c0@iggy>

I've been trying to get in contact with Sonny Ippolito in Alabama.  I've sent
a couple e-mails awhile ago, but haven't been able to get an e-mail reply.  If
anyone here on the list has direct contact with him, please have him contact
me regarding the new suspension.  His number's next after I finish the pair
I'm doing now.

Mike Hokanson
hokey at oasisol.com

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 06:37:47 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:37:47 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <d37.1e6984c3.349bca2b@aol.com>

And the  booze is free to all bidders.
 
Curious, do all of the auctions give free booze to the bidders? If  so, that 
would explain much of what goes on:-)








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From shutchin at netjets.com  Thu Dec 20 06:49:07 2007
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:49:07 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B96EBD0@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

Auction, Casino...

Free booze...

Hmm.... There's something here, can't quite pute my finger on it.......



Scott Hutchinson
Assistant Director of Operations
Netjets International

Office 860.292.1191
Mobile 843.290.2805

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From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 06:51:42 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:51:42 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <d6b.17150b0b.349bcd6e@aol.com>

After reading a recent article on a Corvette it caused me to do  some 
thinking.  How is it that a 3500lb.(approx.) Corvette with 400 HP can  get 32 mpg on 
the highway and a 2500 lb. Tiger with 164 HP can only manage  22mpg?
I realize that the Vet will have a fuel management system which  should be 
much better than a carb. and the cleaner front lines of the Vet will  be much 
better for drag than a Tiger, but.......
When a few people have switched a fairly modern Ford 5.0 (fuel  injected) 
engine into their Tiger, I've never heard them brag of 30  mpg.
And sure, the Tiger is like a brick wall as far as design goes, but  it's not 
like a van or a big truck.  The aerodynamics might be terrible,  but this is 
still a pretty small car and the frontal area is  not huge.
Also, I think the Vet is 6 speed with double overdrive.  I  imagine that at 
road speed this thing isn't much above idle...maybe 1,400  rpm?   By today's 
standards our Tiger is really winding at 3,000 rpm  at 70mph.
So, what is the Vet's secret?  Is it just a combination of  many small things 
adding up to create efficiency?
 



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From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 20 07:25:10 2007
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:25:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
In-Reply-To: <d6b.17150b0b.349bcd6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <246042.66633.qm@web31709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The gearing is a big part of it, and the drag coefficient compared to a
Tiger as well, but as much as I hate to say it, my impression is that
GM has done an incredible job optimizing the efficiency of the good ol'
smallblock pushrod V8.

I mean really... my Miata does not get 32 mpg highway, (though I'm sure
some do).

--- CoolVT at aol.com wrote:

> After reading a recent article on a Corvette it caused me to do  some
> 
> thinking.  How is it that a 3500lb.(approx.) Corvette with 400 HP can
>  get 32 mpg on 
> the highway and a 2500 lb. Tiger with 164 HP can only manage  22mpg?
> I realize that the Vet will have a fuel management system which 
> should be 
> much better than a carb. and the cleaner front lines of the Vet will 
> be much 
> better for drag than a Tiger, but.......
> When a few people have switched a fairly modern Ford 5.0 (fuel 
> injected) 
> engine into their Tiger, I've never heard them brag of 30  mpg.
> And sure, the Tiger is like a brick wall as far as design goes, but 
> it's not 
> like a van or a big truck.  The aerodynamics might be terrible,  but
> this is 
> still a pretty small car and the frontal area is  not huge.
> Also, I think the Vet is 6 speed with double overdrive.  I  imagine
> that at 
> road speed this thing isn't much above idle...maybe 1,400  rpm?   By
> today's 
> standards our Tiger is really winding at 3,000 rpm  at 70mph.
> So, what is the Vet's secret?  Is it just a combination of  many
> small things 
> adding up to create efficiency?
>  
> 
> 
> 
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> gswaybright at yahoo.com
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From arado7 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 20 07:35:55 2007
From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:35:55 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
References: <246042.66633.qm@web31709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c84315$a1a18330$6401a8c0@GMI>

I have found that new technology in fuel and engine control improves MPG. My 
2005 Triumph Rocket 3 motorcycle(2300cc) gets up to 50mpg, the same as my 
1973 Norton 750 Commando. The Rocket 3 produces 140hp(electronically 
limited) and 147 ft. lbs. torque. The Norton produced 60 hp at the crank. 
Never checked the torque.   Gary 

From tbrown at midcoast.com  Thu Dec 20 07:39:15 2007
From: tbrown at midcoast.com (Theodore Brown)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:39:15 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Free Beer
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20071220093745.02693b08@midcoast.com>

As Ben Franklin said, "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us 
to be happy."

Cheers,

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Thu Dec 20 07:51:43 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:51:43 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A02E@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

For a highway test it's not about the horsepower rating of your engine,
it's how much power you need to get down the road at 55 mph (or whatever
the speed is), plus driveline friction and other incidentals.
- The Corvette probably has half the drag of a Tiger, especially if the
top is down on the Tiger.
- The gearing makes a difference because the ring friction, etc. is a
function of engine speed.

Other things probably make less difference. A late model 5.0 can be had
(if you build it that way) with low-tension rings, full roller
valvetrain, efficient water pump, alternator, windage tray etc., all of
which will help reduce drag and parasitic power loss, so that would
likely be equivalent to the best you can do in the 'vette. Similarly,
you can dial in a carburetor to be equally lean as a fuel injection
system; it's just a lot harder to do, and won't be as adaptable. When I
get the BossEFI system on the road I'll let you know how that pans
out... It has full-on closed loop capability as well as timing control
for engine speed and vacuum.

I have an Echo as my commuter car, and as a factory-built mileage miser,
they've done some pretty trick stuff.
- 0.29 drag coefficient. Not great, but not bad for a small 4-seater
where 6-footers can fit both front and rear. The trunk is huge.
- About 2100 pounds curb weight. Pretty light for today's standards
where every car has good sound insulation and interior trim.
- Non-return fuel line. The thinking here is to prevent heated fuel
going back to the tank and causing undue evaporation (it's a sealed tank
anyway, but every little bit helps)
- Stainless fabricated header for lighter weight and to reduce heat loss
going to the catalytic converter. This helps get the system into
closed-loop sooner, thereby saving fuel.
- Composite intake manifold for reduced heat conduction to the intake
air, and the injectors
- Offset crankshaft (relative to the cylinder bores) to reduce side
loading during the power stroke
- 10.5:1 max static compression with variable valve timing - the intake
cam can be retarded up to 60 degrees via a hydraulic control system, to
optimize actual compression and broaden the torque curve.
Nothing that, by itself, will make a big dent, but all the little things
do add up.

Best mileage I've achieved is 760 km on about 40.3 liters of gas,
driving my normal commute-to-work route (which involves a 2 mile, 8%
uphill grade on the way home).
That's 43.3 miles per US gallon. Since the engine is rated at 108 hp,
it's not exactly a rocket, but it's got better power-to-weight than an
early Miata.

Theo

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 08:05:04 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:05:04 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <c8b.1f01a745.349bdea0@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/20/2007 9:51:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
Theo.Smit at dynastream.com writes:

For a  highway test it's not about the horsepower rating of your engine,
it's how  much power you need to get down the road at 55 mph (or  whatever
Is the  drag coefficient based on an over-all  model and size or is it just a 
measurement of the efficiency of the car being  tested. In other words would 
a large SUV that had a drag coefficient of say  -0.50 have the same efficiency 
as a Vet that also had a -0.50? Or is the larger  vehicle still going to push 
more air and therefore require more energy?
M



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From pete_stanisavljevich at coxtarget.com  Thu Dec 20 08:08:21 2007
From: pete_stanisavljevich at coxtarget.com (Peter Stanisavljevich)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:08:21 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A02E@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <1C49C365BAD2E54082C2E7BFD6EE262501E554FE@EX-CL1.coxtarget.com>

Perhaps the biggest gain came from study of flame propagation in the
combustion chamber (Thermal Enginerring?). Honda did some ground
breaking work in the 1960's for their racing motorcycles.

If you can more fully ignite the gasoline in the chamber, thereby
drawing more energy from the fuel burned, you would need less fuel to
produce the same power.

Remember, the technology in the 260/289 predates color TV. Since then
exotic features like hemispherical heads and 4 valves per cylinder have
become common place. Not to mention, very precise, electronically
controlled ignition and engine management systems.

Interesting reading on the subject is "The Internal-combustion Engine in
Theory and Practice - (volume 2)" By Charles Fayette Taylor

ps

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Thu Dec 20 08:11:07 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:11:07 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A02F@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

The drag coefficient is a ratiometric number. To determine the actual
drag force you have to multiply by the effective frontal area of the
vehicle (and the square of the speed, etc.). So the 'vette, with less
than half the frontal area of a SUV, will have half the drag of the SUV,
even if the drag coefficient was the same. Lowering the car reduces the
effective frontal area. This is one reason why lake speedsters are
lowered right down to the salt.

Theo

________________________________

From: CoolVT at aol.com [mailto:CoolVT at aol.com]
Sent: December 20, 2007 8:05 AM
To: Smit, Theo; tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas mileage


In a message dated 12/20/2007 9:51:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Theo.Smit at dynastream.com writes:

	For a highway test it's not about the horsepower rating of your
engine,
	it's how much power you need to get down the road at 55 mph (or
whatever

Is the  drag coefficient based on an over-all model and size or is it
just a measurement of the efficiency of the car being tested. In other
words would a large SUV that had a drag coefficient of say -0.50 have
the same efficiency as a Vet that also had a -0.50? Or is the larger
vehicle still going to push more air and therefore require more energy?
M



________________________________

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for winter.

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 08:14:18 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:14:18 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <c3c.2717d0ce.349be0ca@aol.com>

Theo, thanks.  I guess that was part of my original  point.  Although the 
Tiger is probably  a brick moving through the  air, it still has a pretty small 
frontal  area.



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From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 08:17:12 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:17:12 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Best cordless drill?
Message-ID: <bf4.17b5d8d8.349be178@aol.com>

If you are into tools, you really should have the cordless  shown in attached 
file.
M



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[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of CordlessDrill.wmv]

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Thu Dec 20 08:19:18 2007
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:19:18 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <20071220.101918.12765.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

Me personally, I don't like it. I like some of the mods that were done but the
car just doesn't look right.
I have no problem with mods that enhance the over all safety and performance
of a Tiger but I hate to see a body manipulated in this manner.
With this car being an early example I would have enjoyed a less aggressive
Resto/Mod.
Does anybody know what it looked like before the resto? Color, non-wood dash,
what trans etc........
Just my two cents

Tim
9470149

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http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3m32eEjxtDd8Vr2n4hyJ9HEOZPJ
8uFz3nI8hc3DQkgmmFGWy/

From rtscolgan at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 20 08:21:17 2007
From: rtscolgan at yahoo.com (Russ and Tammy C.)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:21:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] (no subject)
Message-ID: <499694.91253.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

trying to be able to chat on this..............thanks Russ    rtscolgan at yahoo.com


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From spmdr at juno.com  Thu Dec 20 08:24:07 2007
From: spmdr at juno.com (spmdr at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:24:07 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <20071220.072408.-2026967.4.spmdr@juno.com>

Re:   Message: 4
         Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:43:49 -0800 (PST)
         From: Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
         Subject: Re: [Tigers] Russo and Steele

        Will they take a personal out of state check from my brother...

       Sandy

   ...from what I have heard of the deal, Dale should take an out of
state GUN from Guido!

    DW

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Thu Dec 20 08:36:52 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:36:52 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
In-Reply-To: <20071220.101918.12765.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20071220.101918.12765.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662ED19@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

I agree, it is a bit over the top. I don't mind a custom Tiger, but this
maybe a little to far. Personally I like the motor mods, but the
windscreen cut down, the wheel openings, and the interior are pushing it
for me. I havent seen any pics of it prior to its build, but there are
detailed images of the build on dales site. There are some under the "
your car status" section and also under completed projects under " the
worlds most modified alpine".


http://www.dalesresto.com

I was gonna guess it was going to sell for around 80k...but Bill L beat
me to it. so, I'll make my quess  65k



1.  Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
2.  Cullen McCann cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000


What does the winner get? Free beer?








.....Does anybody know what it looked like before the resto? Color,
non-wood dash, what trans etc........


Tim
9470149

From atwittsend at verizon.net  Thu Dec 20 10:45:11 2007
From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:45:11 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
References: <246042.66633.qm@web31709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004f01c84330$1217cce0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>

Mileage can be a mystery.
  I had a 260 Falcon that that I did everything to enhance mileage. The best
I ever got was 21 MPG going 50 MPH. A friends mom had a much heavier Montego
with a 302 and got 24 MPG going 65 MPH. Go figure.

  My '91 Mazda 323 buzzes at 3,000 RPM and if I drive 55-60 MPH I get 43-45
MPG.  So, in all these cases engine size, vehicle weight and RPM don't seem
to add up right.  My '73 Valiant won't get over 14.7 MPG - PERIOD.  Changed
the heads to swirl port, mileage cam, dialed in Edelbrock carb., Edelbrock
Performer intake, - drive like "Granny." Doesn't matter 14.7 MPG. Others
claim their heavier Mopar Lux-O-Boats get 20-24 MPG. Again, go figure.

 I would love for a TV show to find two identical cars, - with significantly
different mileage. Pull them apart and determine why the difference.

Tom

From modtiger at comcast.net  Thu Dec 20 10:58:15 2007
From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:58:15 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
In-Reply-To: <d6b.17150b0b.349bcd6e@aol.com>
References: <d6b.17150b0b.349bcd6e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20071220094521.0232d7e8@comcast.net>

At 05:51 AM 12/20/2007, you wrote:
>After reading a recent article on a Corvette it caused me to do  some
>thinking.  How is it that a 3500lb.(approx.) Corvette with 400 HP 
>can  get 32 mpg on
>the highway and a 2500 lb. Tiger with 164 HP can only manage  22mpg?
>I realize that the Vet will have a fuel management system which  should be
>much better than a carb. and the cleaner front lines of the Vet will  be much
>better for drag than a Tiger, but.......snip

My early 302 roller cam with a 5 speed and 2.88 gears routinely pulls 
26+ mpg at freeway speeds.  Cruises comfortably and quietly at about 
1900 RPM at 70.  The other secrets involve carb sizing and jetting 
along with tuned mechanical and vacuum advance.  Power wise it's 
likely a little short of 300 HP, but it's no slouch.  Most of my 5 
speed customers gain at least 5mpg at cruse speeds over the top 
loader with no other changes.   I'm going to work on my 5 speed, 
stock 260 Tiger's tuning  to see if I can get it in to the 30mpg range.

Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
www.tigerengineering.net

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Thu Dec 20 12:28:14 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:28:14 -0800
Subject: [Tigers]  Gas mileage
In-Reply-To: <004f01c84330$1217cce0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>
References: <246042.66633.qm@web31709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<004f01c84330$1217cce0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>
Message-ID: <476AC24E.8060703@SoCal.rr.com>

Lot's of talk about gas mileage. My father used to tell me "Show me 
someone who knows his gas mileage, and I will show you a failure in life."

Of course, that was when gas was $0.25/gallon.

On the other hand, in the mid '50's I entered a Gas Mileage rally from 
Los Angeles to Santa Barbara with my MG-TD.

The MG, usually, gets terrible mileage because you had to thrash it to 
death to beat the little old lady's Chevvie 6.  And she didn't even know 
we were racing!  On this rally (MG CAR CLUB OF AMERICA) I took first 
place at 42 mpg.

What was the secret?  It will work today!

Start out from the start line verrry slowly.  Drive as if you had a raw 
egg between your foot and the accelerator pedal. Accelerate to about 20 
mph slowly, shifting at low to moderate rpm. Be just short of killing 
the engine.  Maintain this speed without pressure or stopping - Game the 
stop lights. Start decelerating way before the stop, if you can't time 
it.  Turn OFF the engine at every stop, until the light has changed.  
Put cotton in your ears so you don't hear the horns or yelling from 
surrounding cars!

Does it work?  I have the trophy.  Is it fun?  About as much fun as 
driving of a winding road into a canyon, which is at least a thrill - 
until the sudden stop.    :-D

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 12:38:50 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:38:50 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <cec.241c18df.349c1eca@aol.com>

Steve,
It's much easier today....take a 4200 lb. full sized car.....Caddy  or big 
Mercedes, get it up to 65-70 mph, set the cruise control and get 26-28  mpg.  
Pretty amazing and it will only get better with the latest   Federal initiative. 
 Of course, no matter what the politicians and  environmental people tell us, 
we won't save money.  The cars will cost more  and the price of gas will have 
to rise so the fuel suppliers can get the same  gross.
I remember talking to the owner of a gas/service station in the  late 1960's. 
 This is when a big car got 12-14 mpg and gas cost  about 35 cents. I told 
him I heard that full sized cars were under  development that, in the future,  
would get 25 mpg.  He said that he  believed it, but to mark his word, when 
that day came the price of gas would be  over $3 per gallon. He said the fuel 
companies are not going to take lower  profits regardless.  What foresight that 
man had.
M



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From sganz at pacbell.net  Thu Dec 20 12:57:17 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:57:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <717714.27204.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes, good foresight!

If people are looking for better mileage, how about an Alpine engine swap into your Tiger's ;-)

Technology had done some amazing things to help move the mpg up on cars and still have great performance. One thing that also has become much better is the reduction of polution while still cranking out high mileage and high performance cars.

When I drive the Tiger it makes me feel back to the roots of the automobile simple, fixable, and fun.

Sandy



----- Original Message ----
From: "CoolVT at aol.com" <CoolVT at aol.com>
To: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:38:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Gas mileage

Steve,
It's much easier today....take a 4200 lb. full sized car.....Caddy  or big 
Mercedes, get it up to 65-70 mph, set the cruise control and get 26-28   mpg.  
Pretty amazing and it will only get better with the latest  Federal initiative. 
Of course, no matter what the politicians and  environmental people tell us, 
we won't save money.  The cars will cost more  and the price of gas will have 
to rise so the fuel suppliers can get the same  gross.
I remember talking to the owner of a gas/service station in the  late 1960's. 
This is when a big car got 12-14 mpg and gas cost  about 35 cents. I told 
him I heard that full sized cars were under  development that, in the future,  
would get 25 mpg.  He said that he  believed it, but to mark his word, when 
that day came the price of gas would be  over $3 per gallon. He said the fuel 
companies are not going to take lower  profits regardless.  What foresight that 
man had.
M



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
_______________________________________________
sganz at pacbell.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From wsteinman at pogolaw.com  Thu Dec 20 12:59:38 2007
From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:59:38 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
In-Reply-To: <717714.27204.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488F016A86C7@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET>

I only have a passing interest in the mileage of my old cars -- I
casually monitor it to see if it's really bad, then I say to myself
"huh, must be running a bit rich."  :o)



Bill S.
2005 Lotus Elise
1968 Triumph TR-250
1968 MGC Tourer
1965 Sunbeam Tiger
1965 Austin Healey 3000 Mk III
www.TR-250.com

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From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 20 14:06:36 2007
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:06:36 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <001101c8434c$356cd700$6401a8c0@your03667082de>

I'm in for $55,000.

1.  Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
2.  Cullen McCann cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000

3.  Jeff Nichols jxnichols at sbcglobal.net -- $55,000

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 14:12:48 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:12:48 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <ce0.2089be5d.349c34d0@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/20/2007 4:07:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
jxnichols at sbcglobal.net writes:

I'm in  for $55,000.

1.  Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
2.   Cullen McCann cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000

3.  Jeff Nichols  jxnichols at sbcglobal.net --  $55,000
_______________________________________________


Does this auction allow reserves?  I doubt that the seller  would let it go 
for $55,000 or maybe even $80,000.  Will definitley be  interesting.



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 14:30:44 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:30:44 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <c7a.24ef2c2c.349c3904@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/20/2007 12:58:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
modtiger at comcast.net writes:

My early  302 roller cam with a 5 speed and 2.88 gears routinely pulls 26+ 
mpg at 



Tom,
Thanks for that bit of information.  That was my next question...if  someone 
with a stock 260 and 5 speed found better mileage.  I think we  would love to 
find out if you can come up with near 30 mpg and how you do  it.



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From twotigers at verizon.net  Thu Dec 20 14:41:27 2007
From: twotigers at verizon.net (Kirk Smith)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:41:27 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] gas mileage
Message-ID: <000801c84351$14217c90$2f01a8c0@smith>

About 35 years ago my boss told me that men always lie about 2 things:  Their
sex life and their gas mileage;)

Kirk
B382000503

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 14:43:08 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:43:08 EST
Subject: [Tigers] gas mileage
Message-ID: <d45.1ac73b23.349c3bec@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/20/2007 4:42:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
twotigers at verizon.net writes:

About 35  years ago my boss told me that men always lie about 2 things:   
Their
sex life and their gas mileage;)




LOL, LOL



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 14:44:07 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:44:07 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <d44.1ac7f38d.349c3c27@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/20/2007 1:13:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
CoolVT at aol.com writes:

1.   Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
2.   Cullen McCann  cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000

3.  Jeff Nichols   jxnichols at sbcglobal.net --  $55,000



4. Mike Wood _mwood24020 at aol.com_ (mailto:mwood24020 at aol.com)  --  $92,000



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Dec 20 14:48:23 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:48:23 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
Message-ID: <20071220214725.RYKA14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

My dad (born 1908) said the same thing about his Model A.  When cars got
hydraulic lifters and you had to adjust them while the car was running he
couldn't accept it.  Even worse about 10 years later we had EGR valves. What
will automobiles become? - Bill --

 

 

 

When I drive the Tiger it makes me feel back to the roots of the automobile
simple, fixable, and fun.

 

Sandy

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Thu Dec 20 14:50:00 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:50:00 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
In-Reply-To: <ce0.2089be5d.349c34d0@aol.com>
References: <ce0.2089be5d.349c34d0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662EDF7@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Good question...had to go to the FAQ of their site to answer. This
auction does have reserves.

"Why does Russo and Steele "Welcome and encourage Reserve Entries"?
With the ability to offer 500 exclusive "Prime Time" lots in January,
the quality of the consignments are much better when sellers have a
"safety net". In addition, as long as a seller has a market relative
reserve, it is the obligation of the auction house to sell the car for
the most money. This does not include "beating up" your clients or
coercing them into a No Reserve situation by offering Prime numbers only
to No Reserve entries. Auction sales should offer ALL cars during a
prime time! This is the primary reason that Russo and Steele only sells
at the hottest times for any market. "

I agree, with a quarter mil invested, his reserve cant be that low. I
guess I'm betting on how high the bids will go, not necessarily the
selling price.





In a message dated 12/20/2007 4:07:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jxnichols at sbcglobal.net writes:

I'm in  for $55,000.

1.  Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
2.   Cullen McCann cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000

3.  Jeff Nichols  jxnichols at sbcglobal.net --  $55,000
_______________________________________________


Does this auction allow reserves?  I doubt that the seller  would let it
go for $55,000 or maybe even $80,000.  Will definitley be  interesting.



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
_______________________________________________
cmccann at lwpb.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Dec 20 15:01:13 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:01:13 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <20071220220015.SRMN14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

I think that's what everybody was entering.  No matter how much a car cost
to build or how perfect, it will only sell for an amount that someone with
that kind of money is willing to spend.  A quarter mill is well into
original Cobra territory.

Good question...had to go to the FAQ of their site to answer. This
auction does have reserves.

"Why does Russo and Steele "Welcome and encourage Reserve Entries"?
With the ability to offer 500 exclusive "Prime Time" lots in January,
the quality of the consignments are much better when sellers have a
"safety net". In addition, as long as a seller has a market relative
reserve, it is the obligation of the auction house to sell the car for
the most money. This does not include "beating up" your clients or
coercing them into a No Reserve situation by offering Prime numbers only
to No Reserve entries. Auction sales should offer ALL cars during a
prime time! This is the primary reason that Russo and Steele only sells
at the hottest times for any market. "

I agree, with a quarter mil invested, his reserve cant be that low. I
guess I'm betting on how high the bids will go, not necessarily the
selling price.





In a message dated 12/20/2007 4:07:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jxnichols at sbcglobal.net writes:

I'm in  for $55,000.

1.  Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
2.   Cullen McCann cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000

3.  Jeff Nichols  jxnichols at sbcglobal.net --  $55,000
_______________________________________________


Does this auction allow reserves?  I doubt that the seller  would let it
go for $55,000 or maybe even $80,000.  Will definitley be  interesting.

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 15:07:31 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:07:31 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <ce6.23897887.349c41a3@aol.com>

A  quarter mill is well into original Cobra territory.
 
A good point. If an "average" condition 289 Cobra could be  bought for 
$250,000 and a Tiger for $250,000.  Where would you want your  money invested? 









**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From AndersonB at saccounty.net  Thu Dec 20 15:44:15 2007
From: AndersonB at saccounty.net (Anderson. Bruce (DA))
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:44:15 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele Tiger
References: <mailman.39947.1198188088.12556.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <43B2F5754EE87842A612584D64E2C6642F7BC9@da-exch01.da.saccounty.net>

I was curious. Why is the Russo and Steele car listed as a Tiger  when Dale's
web site describes the car as the worlds most modified Alpine?

____________________________________________________________________________
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From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Thu Dec 20 15:47:27 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:47:27 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele Tiger
In-Reply-To: <43B2F5754EE87842A612584D64E2C6642F7BC9@da-exch01.da.saccounty.net>
References: <mailman.39947.1198188088.12556.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<43B2F5754EE87842A612584D64E2C6642F7BC9@da-exch01.da.saccounty.net>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662EE28@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

D.A. is trying to discredit the car because of the poor relationship
with the owner. I believe he wasn't paid in full, but the owner took
possession of the car, and when the final bill came he didn't pay. I was
told he kinda took the car and disappeared. Wouldn't return calls etc.
story is something like that....not to spread rumors, because its all
second hand info to me. when we talked about this car months ago, norm
chimed in a set the record straight, it is a real Tiger, number 80.

From alittlemoreink at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 20 16:10:31 2007
From: alittlemoreink at hotmail.com (John Crawley)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:10:31 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Prrrowl Milesone
Message-ID: <BAY127-W1141D7C84A9288445364D9DB5D0@phx.gbl>

Hi All:
My TIGER, Prrrowl, reached a milestone this summer. . . Dee and I have driven
him for 40,000 miles since he went back on the road in 1994.  When I read over
The Restoration of Prrrowl on the TIGERS UNITED site I cringe at some of the
things that I did back then, however in 13 years, I have never had to come
home on a string!
We have driven through snow up to the bumper and in temperatures of as high as
119 F. and have never had the car get stuck nor boil over. Prrrowl is
beginning to show the miles; there are rock chips in the paint and one on the
windshield, the rubber bits are beginning to deteriorate and the carpet is
worn.
Since the restoration I have had to replace: one set of points, one ignition
wire, two alternators, two starters, four tires, two fuel pumps, one
thermostat, two thermostat housing gaskets and one battery. We have driven
long, hard and fast, towing a small tent trailer for many of the miles and I
would have no hesitation digging him out of winter storage and heading for
Mexico this afternoon.
Dee says: The TIGER is the best fun-value-per-dollar that we have ever
spent. I say: Prrrowl will be the best toy I have ever had!
Godspeed in Safety Fast
And a Blessed Christmas and healthy New Year to you
Jc


_________________________________________________________________
Introducing the City @ Live! Take a tour!
http://getyourliveid.ca/?icid=LIVEIDENCA006

From chris at cthompson.net  Thu Dec 20 16:16:54 2007
From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:16:54 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Best cordless drill?
In-Reply-To: <bf4.17b5d8d8.349be178@aol.com>
References: <bf4.17b5d8d8.349be178@aol.com>
Message-ID: <476AF7E6.5030608@cthompson.net>

Or view here:
http://www.ifitstuff.com/foto/displayimage.php?pos=-238

CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
> If you are into tools, you really should have the cordless  shown in attached 
> file.
> M

From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Dec 20 16:24:37 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:24:37 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Prrrowl Milesone
Message-ID: <20071220232339.XDPG14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

I say, this is what it is all about.  If you had an original Cobra would you
be willing to get in and do the same thing. -- Bill --



Hi All:
My TIGER, Prrrowl, reached a milestone this summer. . . Dee and I have
driven
him for 40,000 miles since he went back on the road in 1994.  When I read
over
The Restoration of Prrrowl on the TIGERS UNITED site I cringe at some of
the
things that I did back then, however in 13 years, I have never had to come
home on a string!
We have driven through snow up to the bumper and in temperatures of as high
as
119 F. and have never had the car get stuck nor boil over. Prrrowl is
beginning to show the miles; there are rock chips in the paint and one on
the
windshield, the rubber bits are beginning to deteriorate and the carpet is
worn.
Since the restoration I have had to replace: one set of points, one ignition
wire, two alternators, two starters, four tires, two fuel pumps, one
thermostat, two thermostat housing gaskets and one battery. We have driven
long, hard and fast, towing a small tent trailer for many of the miles and I
would have no hesitation digging him out of winter storage and heading for
Mexico this afternoon.
Dee says: The TIGER is the best fun-value-per-dollar that we have ever
spent. I say: Prrrowl will be the best toy I have ever had!
Godspeed in Safety Fast
And a Blessed Christmas and healthy New Year to you
Jc

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 16:29:49 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:29:49 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Prrrowl Milesone
Message-ID: <caf.25e5f808.349c54ed@aol.com>

I say,  this is what it is all about.  If you had an original Cobra would  you
be willing to get in and do the same thing. -- Bill  --



Or if you bought any of the $100,000 muscle cars at these auctions,  would 
you be willing to drive them the same way?  As I watch the auctions I  know that 
most people buying the expensive cars will drive them very little. I  think 
we can look forward to having about 5,000 auto museums in this  country.  Most 
of them will only have one or two  cars:-)



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From chris at cthompson.net  Thu Dec 20 17:15:34 2007
From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:15:34 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Gas mileage
In-Reply-To: <476AC24E.8060703@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <246042.66633.qm@web31709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<004f01c84330$1217cce0$0302a8c0@allinthefamily>
	<476AC24E.8060703@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <476B05A6.7000806@cthompson.net>

I knew you were going to say that Steve - I remember it well from years ago.

I don't know the gas mileage of any of my dozen cars, although I do know 
the mileage on my F-250 s*cks.

Don't ask me about my sex life ;-)

Chris

Steve Laifman wrote:
> Lot's of talk about gas mileage. My father used to tell me "Show me 
> someone who knows his gas mileage, and I will show you a failure in life."

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 20 17:28:21 2007
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:28:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele price pool
In-Reply-To: <d44.1ac7f38d.349c3c27@aol.com>
Message-ID: <12904.96764.qm@web31702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

 1. Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
 2. Cullen McCann  cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000
 3. Jeff Nichols   jxnichols at sbcglobal.net --  $55,000
 4. Mike Wood _mwood24020 at aol.com --  $92,000
 5. Stephen Waybright - Not Sold @ $79,000

From sganz at pacbell.net  Thu Dec 20 17:43:57 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:43:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele price pool
Message-ID: <433607.84820.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I going to be the glass half empty guy and say Reserved Not met at $61k


So to keep the format

6. Sandy Ganz - Not Sold -- $61,000

----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen Waybright <gswaybright at yahoo.com>
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:28:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Russo and Steele price pool

1. Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
2. Cullen McCann  cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000
3. Jeff Nichols  jxnichols at sbcglobal.net --  $55,000
4. Mike Wood _mwood24020 at aol.com --  $92,000
5. Stephen Waybright - Not Sold @ $79,000
_______________________________________________
sganz at pacbell.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From mrlau at charter.net  Thu Dec 20 18:02:46 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:02:46 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] FW:  Russo and Steele price pool
Message-ID: <20071221010148.BTJM14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

I don't think any of us expect these prices to meet the reserve. -- Bill --


Russo and Steele price pool

I going to be the glass half empty guy and say Reserved Not met at $61k


So to keep the format

6. Sandy Ganz - Not Sold -- $61,000

----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen Waybright <gswaybright at yahoo.com>
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:28:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Russo and Steele price pool

1. Bill Lau MrLau at Charter.net -- $80,000
2. Cullen McCann  cmccann at lwpb.com -- $65,000
3. Jeff Nichols  jxnichols at sbcglobal.net --  $55,000
4. Mike Wood _mwood24020 at aol.com --  $92,000
5. Stephen Waybright - Not Sold @ $79,000
6. Sandy Ganz $61,000
7. 

From sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net  Thu Dec 20 18:05:36 2007
From: sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net (David Sosna)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:05:36 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
In-Reply-To: <ce6.23897887.349c41a3@aol.com>
References: <ce6.23897887.349c41a3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <476B1160.7020402@cox.net>

Uhhh, I think if I had that much money, I'd go for the Lamborghini 350 GT.

http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1966_lamborghini_350_gt__coupe/7330.html

And put whatever was left over into paying a full time mechanic to keep 
the carbs synched.

I wonder what kind of gas mileage it gets? :-)

Best Regards
David Sosna

CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
> A  quarter mill is well into original Cobra territory.
>  
> A good point. If an "average" condition 289 Cobra could be  bought for 
> $250,000 and a Tiger for $250,000.  Where would you want your  money invested? 

From CoolVT at aol.com  Thu Dec 20 18:23:27 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:23:27 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
Message-ID: <d53.1e7dce79.349c6f8f@aol.com>

Uhhh, I  think if I had that much money, I'd go for the Lamborghini 350 
GT..And put  whatever was left over into paying a full time mechanic to keep 
the carbs  synched.




Dave,
I think  one huge advantages to owning an American product, or  least an 
American engine.....pretty low maintenance costs.  I think I read  recently that 
often a Ferrari water pump change is $5,000. Engine has to be  pulled. With 
just limited driving the annual cost of operation (following  maintenance schedule
s) with a factory approved tech will run $8,000-$10,000 per  year.
Now compare that with operating a Tiger, a Cobra or a hopped up  Mustang.  
M



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net  Thu Dec 20 18:35:36 2007
From: sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net (David Sosna)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:35:36 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele
In-Reply-To: <d53.1e7dce79.349c6f8f@aol.com>
References: <d53.1e7dce79.349c6f8f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <476B1868.2080909@cox.net>

Right, but I'm pretending I have $250,000 to blow on a car.....
And I think you and I are making the same point.
:-)
Best Regards
David

CoolVT at aol.com wrote:
>
>     Uhhh, I think if I had that much money, I'd go for the Lamborghini
>     350 GT..And put whatever was left over into paying a full time
>     mechanic to keep
>     the carbs synched.
>
> *Dave,*
> *I think  one huge advantages to owning an American product, or least 
> an American engine.....pretty low maintenance costs.  I think I read 
> recently that often a Ferrari water pump change is $5,000. Engine has 
> to be pulled. With just limited driving the annual cost of operation 
> (following maintenance schedules) with a factory approved tech will 
> run $8,000-$10,000 per year.*
> *Now compare that with operating a Tiger, a Cobra or a hopped up 
> Mustang.  *
> *M*
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Fri Dec 21 06:19:46 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:19:46 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F5A1C@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
References: <cc5.24b01c87.3496d469@aol.com>
	<D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F5A1C@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662EE5F@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Red Sunbeam didn't meet the reserve at 4250.00...37 bids later. Somebody
was interested in it.

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Fri Dec 21 06:20:38 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:20:38 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
In-Reply-To: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662EE5F@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
References: <cc5.24b01c87.3496d469@aol.com><D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F70865F5A1C@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
	<D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662EE5F@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662EE60@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

Whoops, I mean 23 bids later...I was looking at something else...

From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec 21 06:40:59 2007
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:40:59 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Russo and Steele:   Best Dam Car In The Auction
Message-ID: <000e01c843d7$1f4eb2a0$6401a8c0@your03667082de>

After perusing all the cars listed, and this is my opinion, I think the
$250.000 Sunbeam Tiger is one of the least desirable cars in the auction.  For
my money, the 1986 Pontiac Fiero Smokey Yunick Coupe is the one to bid on.
Here is a description of the engine: "the most significant advance in engine
technology since the original concept of the Otto-cycle Internal Combustion
Engine. To further quote CJ Baker, 'The car now gets more than 50 miles to the
gallon, develops 250 HP and 230 foot pounds of torque, runs more smoothly than
any 4-cylinder you've ever experienced, has no computer controls, passes
Federal Emissions Standards and oh yes 0-60 MPH in as little as 6 seconds
flat!".  Talk about gas mileage; 50 miles to gallon and 250 hp from the Iron
Duke!

Smokey developed some type of engine add on installed on the car.  Here is the
quote: "Included with this Smokey Yunick Hot Vapor Fiero are templates that
Smokey designed to build the Hot Vapor tubing lines, and spare exhaust
manifold and homogenizer."  I wonder if this can be included with the 100mpg
carb that the oil companies killed back in the day.

One more unique  feature are the tires. And I quote: "  This Fiero is running
another of Smokey's inventions - the 'run silent' (or 'Bald Eagle' as he
called them) tires. There were only 100 of these tires produced by Goodyear,
and while they were not on the original Fiero, Tony had a complete set and
decided to use them. They are much like front tractor tires, basically having
vertical slices cut into a slick. These slices are half an inch wide, crossing
the entire width of the tire. They are exceptionally quiet and all you hear is
wind from the Fiero slicing through it."   Seems to be the ultimate high
performance tractor tire.

This car is chock full of automotive innovations that any car geek would love
to own. Plus, Smokey Yunick was world famous as owner of the "Best Dam Garage
In Daytona Beach",  in addition to his racing exploits.


                                                                             
                                                                  Jeff

From un-cole-a at juno.com  Fri Dec 21 07:58:50 2007
From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:58:50 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] e bay Alger 140189086032
Message-ID: <20071221.095850.1956.1@webmail15.vgs.untd.com>

Maybe after the Holidays, and if the car is still around, I will take a ride
over and check it out.
I would really love to get the numbers off the engine and trans. If we could
get them Norm may be able to tell us if it is a real Tiger.
My bet is on it's a real Tiger, I can't see anyone taking that much time and
money to build an Alger. For the money spent he could have bought a Tiger.
Will report back if I get a chance to go see the car.

Tim
9470149

_____________________________________________________________
Orchard Bank MasterCard
Get your credit on track with an Orchard Bank MasterCard
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/JKFkuJi7EpI4nBalZdVd7HDLaXBhiHHBc
MfEzrOhyclZHxk12KKAX0/

From kneedrag at core.com  Fri Dec 21 08:27:37 2007
From: kneedrag at core.com (Mark Rense)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:27:37 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <mailman.39976.1198200977.12556.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <ABEDIOPMGFPCKLEMKADNKEJHCGAA.kneedrag@core.com>

To add a couple more data points to this thread, I can compare my two very
differently tuned Tigers:

Tiger 1:
B382000991:
Built 289 (Edelbrock Performer + heads, KB high comp pistons, Comp Cams 282
grind, F4B, Edelbrock 500 cfm carb, Pertronics ignition, stock exhaust
manifolds, stock air cleaner with K&N element, and 1 3/4" exhaust), 3.23
rear end, 205/60-13 tires. Car was rear wheel dynoed at 245 HP.

Logbook mileage on interstate (3200 rpm @ 70 mph) = 19.3 (average of four
trips, all over 100 miles in length)


Tiger 2:
B382001465:
Stock 260 (stock points, carb, exhaust, intake etc.), stock 2.88 rear end,
195/60-14 tires.

Logbook mileage on interstate (2850 rpm at 70 mph) = 21.1 mpg (average of
two trips, both over 400 miles in length)

The stock car is a more relaxed ride at freeway speeds, so I tend to cruise
it at faster speeds. The interesting thing is the mileage of the high output
car, being so close. I attribute that to the engine having a higher BMEP,
being more thermally efficient, and for better carburetion. I like the
Edelbrock carbs for their tuneability, I played with the needle jets until I
got a partial throttle leanness and good response when the foot goes deeper
into the loud pedal.

For another data point, my brother's well-modified '91 ZR1 Corvette, a
veteran of several Big Bend road races, still gets close to 27 mpg lugging
along at 85 mph (minimum allowable speed on I-35 in Texas). At that speed,
the engine is loafing at 1800 RPM in 6th gear.

Now when they can make a full-sized pickup get 25 mpg towing a car trailer,
I'll be first in line to buy!

Bugz

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Dec 21 09:28:55 2007
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:28:55 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <ABEDIOPMGFPCKLEMKADNKEJHCGAA.kneedrag@core.com>
References: <mailman.39976.1198200977.12556.tigers@autox.team.net>
	<ABEDIOPMGFPCKLEMKADNKEJHCGAA.kneedrag@core.com>
Message-ID: <39a841b0712210828m6162f5b2n92ab0041ac5d15cf@mail.gmail.com>

you guys in the states need to get some diesels!

the audi a6 3.0TDI (wagon!) gets 35mpg urban/highway combined (45mpg
on the highway).

it has 230hp but a huge 450nm torque (335lb/ft)
0-60 in 7s and 155mph.

its the ultimate long distance, high speed cruiser.

On Dec 21, 2007 3:27 PM, Mark Rense <kneedrag at core.com> wrote:
> To add a couple more data points to this thread, I can compare my two very
> differently tuned Tigers:
>
> Tiger 1:
> B382000991:
> Built 289 (Edelbrock Performer + heads, KB high comp pistons, Comp Cams 282
> grind, F4B, Edelbrock 500 cfm carb, Pertronics ignition, stock exhaust
> manifolds, stock air cleaner with K&N element, and 1 3/4" exhaust), 3.23
> rear end, 205/60-13 tires. Car was rear wheel dynoed at 245 HP.
>
> Logbook mileage on interstate (3200 rpm @ 70 mph) = 19.3 (average of four
> trips, all over 100 miles in length)
>
>
> Tiger 2:
> B382001465:
> Stock 260 (stock points, carb, exhaust, intake etc.), stock 2.88 rear end,
> 195/60-14 tires.
>
> Logbook mileage on interstate (2850 rpm at 70 mph) = 21.1 mpg (average of
> two trips, both over 400 miles in length)
>
> The stock car is a more relaxed ride at freeway speeds, so I tend to cruise
> it at faster speeds. The interesting thing is the mileage of the high output
> car, being so close. I attribute that to the engine having a higher BMEP,
> being more thermally efficient, and for better carburetion. I like the
> Edelbrock carbs for their tuneability, I played with the needle jets until I
> got a partial throttle leanness and good response when the foot goes deeper
> into the loud pedal.
>
> For another data point, my brother's well-modified '91 ZR1 Corvette, a
> veteran of several Big Bend road races, still gets close to 27 mpg lugging
> along at 85 mph (minimum allowable speed on I-35 in Texas). At that speed,
> the engine is loafing at 1800 RPM in 6th gear.
>
> Now when they can make a full-sized pickup get 25 mpg towing a car trailer,
> I'll be first in line to buy!
>
> Bugz
> _______________________________________________
> owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com  Fri Dec 21 09:40:51 2007
From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:40:51 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A035@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>

I'll bite: Are diesels actually more thermodynamically efficient than
gasoline engines? It's a rule of thumb that in a typical gasoline
engine, about 1/3 of the chemical energy in the fuel goes out the
tailpipe, 1/3 is dissipated in the cooling system, and 1/3 actually does
useful work in getting the car down the road. A turbocharger helps in
this regard because some (how much?) of the exhaust energy goes into
compressing the intake charge and thereby helps do useful work. But is
there any intrinsic value in using diesel fuel? Diesel has higher energy
content per gallon, which is why you can always get better mpg values
using diesel (and your M85/E85 "mileage" will be significantly worse),
but are the engines actually more efficient?

Theo

From CMcCann at lwpb.com  Fri Dec 21 09:40:41 2007
From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:40:41 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0712210828m6162f5b2n92ab0041ac5d15cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.39976.1198200977.12556.tigers@autox.team.net><ABEDIOPMGFPCKLEMKADNKEJHCGAA.kneedrag@core.com>
	<39a841b0712210828m6162f5b2n92ab0041ac5d15cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D8223A11C9357D4891EA3884907F708662EF00@lwpb-email1.LWPB.local>

I agree with a that. I have a 03 Chevrolet duramax 3/4 ton. The motor is
actually made by isuzu, but it has 450 horse, 550 ft lbs of torque and
still gets 21 mpg. It has easily pulled anything I've ever had behind
it, cruises nice, and has more power than I can really use. Diesels are
impressive.







you guys in the states need to get some diesels!

the audi a6 3.0TDI (wagon!) gets 35mpg urban/highway combined (45mpg on
the highway).

it has 230hp but a huge 450nm torque (335lb/ft) 0-60 in 7s and 155mph.

its the ultimate long distance, high speed cruiser.

On Dec 21, 2007 3:27 PM, Mark Rense <kneedrag at core.com> wrote:
> To add a couple more data points to this thread, I can compare my two
> very differently tuned Tigers:
>
> Tiger 1:
> B382000991:
> Built 289 (Edelbrock Performer + heads, KB high comp pistons, Comp
> Cams 282 grind, F4B, Edelbrock 500 cfm carb, Pertronics ignition,
> stock exhaust manifolds, stock air cleaner with K&N element, and 1
> 3/4" exhaust), 3.23 rear end, 205/60-13 tires. Car was rear wheel
dynoed at 245 HP.
>
> Logbook mileage on interstate (3200 rpm @ 70 mph) = 19.3 (average of
> four trips, all over 100 miles in length)
>
>
> Tiger 2:
> B382001465:
> Stock 260 (stock points, carb, exhaust, intake etc.), stock 2.88 rear
> end,
> 195/60-14 tires.
>
> Logbook mileage on interstate (2850 rpm at 70 mph) = 21.1 mpg (average

> of two trips, both over 400 miles in length)
>
> The stock car is a more relaxed ride at freeway speeds, so I tend to
> cruise it at faster speeds. The interesting thing is the mileage of
> the high output car, being so close. I attribute that to the engine
> having a higher BMEP, being more thermally efficient, and for better
> carburetion. I like the Edelbrock carbs for their tuneability, I
> played with the needle jets until I got a partial throttle leanness
> and good response when the foot goes deeper into the loud pedal.
>
> For another data point, my brother's well-modified '91 ZR1 Corvette, a

> veteran of several Big Bend road races, still gets close to 27 mpg
> lugging along at 85 mph (minimum allowable speed on I-35 in Texas). At

> that speed, the engine is loafing at 1800 RPM in 6th gear.
>
> Now when they can make a full-sized pickup get 25 mpg towing a car
> trailer, I'll be first in line to buy!
>
> Bugz
> _______________________________________________
> owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
_______________________________________________
cmccann at lwpb.com

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From mrlau at charter.net  Fri Dec 21 10:12:48 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:12:48 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Tiger Gas Mileage
Message-ID: <20071221171150.HIGA14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

I bought a Mercedes diesel in 1979.  It got 28 mpg city or highway, but the
power it was supposed to have wasn't there.  It wasn't the turbo model but
they weren't any quicker because it was off the line that they were all but
embarrassing.  At highway speeds it was fine but power is needed at the
start, especially if you are towing.  I had it for 140,000 miles and it did
last pretty well because in those days nothing lasted that long.  When I
sold it, one of the camshaft lobes was disappearing and at highway speeds it
would only go 70mph with the pedal on the floor.  All of them were like that
and in 1980 they started to put carbide followers on the rockers so the cam
would last longer.  I don't know if it worked or not.  The oil had to be
changed every 2500 miles and the oil was more expensive and the filter at
that time cost $15 and that little engine took 7 quarts.  At 2500 miles the
oil looked like it would take a putty knife to get it all out.  That was 56
oil changes while I had it and it still wore out.  I understand that they
are improved when it comes to cold weather starting but one time I had to
take an old Mustang to the grocery store when it was about -5 degrees and
hook up a 110 volt generator off the Mustang battery so I could plug the
Mercedes in and warm the engine with the block heater for 30 minutes so it
would start.  I acted like I owned the Mustang and was just helping the lady
in the car (My wife). Never again a diesel for me.  I am cured of that
notion.-- Bill --



I agree with a that. I have a 03 Chevrolet duramax 3/4 ton. The motor is
actually made by isuzu, but it has 450 horse, 550 ft lbs of torque and
still gets 21 mpg. It has easily pulled anything I've ever had behind
it, cruises nice, and has more power than I can really use. Diesels are
impressive.







you guys in the states need to get some diesels!

the audi a6 3.0TDI (wagon!) gets 35mpg urban/highway combined (45mpg on
the highway).

it has 230hp but a huge 450nm torque (335lb/ft) 0-60 in 7s and 155mph.

its the ultimate long distance, high speed cruiser.
mailman/listinfo/tigers

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Dec 21 10:34:20 2007
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:34:20 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <20071221171150.HIGA14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
References: <20071221171150.HIGA14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <39a841b0712210934h4a8888coc2ce91e2f0551be7@mail.gmail.com>

chalk and cheese.  those old diesels were TERRIBLE!
high end diesels have come a long long in the last 5 or 6 years.
i had a choice between the 3.0 diesel, the 4.2 v8 petrol or the 5.2 v10 petrol.

i drove them all about 1000 miles a peice and the diesel was smoother,
quieter and had more usable power than the 4.2.  it is also a much
lighter engine so the car handles much better (audis always have a bit
of a problem with the weight up at the front end).  the 5.2 puts a
tiger like smile on your face but its not really necessary long trips
and over here the fuel economy and difference in purchase price mean
its not viable.


On Dec 21, 2007 5:12 PM, William Lau <mrlau at charter.net> wrote:
> I bought a Mercedes diesel in 1979.  It got 28 mpg city or highway, but the
> power it was supposed to have wasn't there.  It wasn't the turbo model but
> they weren't any quicker because it was off the line that they were all but
> embarrassing.  At highway speeds it was fine but power is needed at the
> start, especially if you are towing.  I had it for 140,000 miles and it did
> last pretty well because in those days nothing lasted that long.  When I
> sold it, one of the camshaft lobes was disappearing and at highway speeds it
> would only go 70mph with the pedal on the floor.  All of them were like that
> and in 1980 they started to put carbide followers on the rockers so the cam
> would last longer.  I don't know if it worked or not.  The oil had to be
> changed every 2500 miles and the oil was more expensive and the filter at
> that time cost $15 and that little engine took 7 quarts.  At 2500 miles the
> oil looked like it would take a putty knife to get it all out.  That was 56
> oil changes while I had it and it still wore out.  I understand that they
> are improved when it comes to cold weather starting but one time I had to
> take an old Mustang to the grocery store when it was about -5 degrees and
> hook up a 110 volt generator off the Mustang battery so I could plug the
> Mercedes in and warm the engine with the block heater for 30 minutes so it
> would start.  I acted like I owned the Mustang and was just helping the lady
> in the car (My wife). Never again a diesel for me.  I am cured of that
> notion.-- Bill --
>
>
>
> I agree with a that. I have a 03 Chevrolet duramax 3/4 ton. The motor is
> actually made by isuzu, but it has 450 horse, 550 ft lbs of torque and
> still gets 21 mpg. It has easily pulled anything I've ever had behind
> it, cruises nice, and has more power than I can really use. Diesels are
> impressive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> you guys in the states need to get some diesels!
>
> the audi a6 3.0TDI (wagon!) gets 35mpg urban/highway combined (45mpg on
> the highway).
>
> it has 230hp but a huge 450nm torque (335lb/ft) 0-60 in 7s and 155mph.
>
> its the ultimate long distance, high speed cruiser.
> mailman/listinfo/tigers
> _______________________________________________
> owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From mrlau at charter.net  Fri Dec 21 11:17:12 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:17:12 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Tiger Gas Mileage
Message-ID: <20071221181614.FQUQ17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

You will notice though that Mercedes quit making them.  I think they had
enough too. -- Bill --

and i'll add to that, that towing or off the start you have so much
torque in a diesel that it far outstrips the petrol.  its not max
power you want for towing but torque for the low end power.

but i agree those old 70's merc diesels were awful.  in germany they
were only really used for taxis.

On Dec 21, 2007 5:34 PM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> chalk and cheese.  those old diesels were TERRIBLE!
> high end diesels have come a long long in the last 5 or 6 years.
> i had a choice between the 3.0 diesel, the 4.2 v8 petrol or the 5.2 v10
petrol.
>
> i drove them all about 1000 miles a peice and the diesel was smoother,
> quieter and had more usable power than the 4.2.  it is also a much
> lighter engine so the car handles much better (audis always have a bit
> of a problem with the weight up at the front end).  the 5.2 puts a
> tiger like smile on your face but its not really necessary long trips
> and over here the fuel economy and difference in purchase price mean
> its not viable.

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Fri Dec 21 11:20:36 2007
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:20:36 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] "World's most modified Alpine"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1198177203.22775.tigers@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <OFA082C492.656B8150-ON882573B8.00649EF8-882573B8.0064C3B6@countrywide.com>

"I agree, it is a bit over the top. I don't mind a custom Tiger, but this
maybe a little to far. Personally I like the motor mods, but the
windscreen cut down, the wheel openings, and the interior are pushing it
for me. I havent seen any pics of it prior to its build, but there are
detailed images of the build on dales site. There are some under the "
your car status" section and also under completed projects under " the
worlds most modified alpine".

http://www.dalesresto.com/gal.html"

But then the 80th Tiger? 
http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector_car/1965_sunbeam_tiger_shelby_convertible/7401.html

I'm sorry, did someone else already comment on this disconnect?

Jay

======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

======================================================================

From owain.lloyd at gmail.com  Fri Dec 21 11:27:44 2007
From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:27:44 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <20071221181614.FQUQ17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>
References: <20071221181614.FQUQ17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <39a841b0712211027w5e50c961ta65c1a54fbe46196@mail.gmail.com>

Mercedes still make them.  About 80% merc sales in uk and italy are
diesel.  They are good too but not the power houses of the audis.
Audi offer and 4 and 4.2 TDI all aluminum v8 in the A8 and vw have a
toureg with I think a 6 litre turbo diesel.   These are very refined
engines.



On 12/21/07, William Lau <mrlau at charter.net> wrote:
> You will notice though that Mercedes quit making them.  I think they had
> enough too. -- Bill --
>
> and i'll add to that, that towing or off the start you have so much
> torque in a diesel that it far outstrips the petrol.  its not max
> power you want for towing but torque for the low end power.
>
> but i agree those old 70's merc diesels were awful.  in germany they
> were only really used for taxis.
>
> On Dec 21, 2007 5:34 PM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> > chalk and cheese.  those old diesels were TERRIBLE!
> > high end diesels have come a long long in the last 5 or 6 years.
> > i had a choice between the 3.0 diesel, the 4.2 v8 petrol or the 5.2 v10
> petrol.
> >
> > i drove them all about 1000 miles a peice and the diesel was smoother,
> > quieter and had more usable power than the 4.2.  it is also a much
> > lighter engine so the car handles much better (audis always have a bit
> > of a problem with the weight up at the front end).  the 5.2 puts a
> > tiger like smile on your face but its not really necessary long trips
> > and over here the fuel economy and difference in purchase price mean
> > its not viable.
> _______________________________________________
> owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>

-- 
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

From sganz at pacbell.net  Fri Dec 21 12:09:44 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:09:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
Message-ID: <333384.48360.qm@web82814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

And if your not if California, you can get Mercedes SUV and Jeep's with Diesels. My brother lives in oregon and drove his family down in his Jeep Cherokee and it was nice, hardly could tell it was a Diesel. VW also has the bug I think too,  like the VW v10 twin turbo diesel maybe be 5L?? (320+hp/550tq) in the Toureg, but it is crazy priced and I think my have only been in CA for 1 year. Likely Audi derived. I drive a 7.3L Powerstroke in an Excursion and it is anchient compaired to the 2 generations that came after, which make way more power and have less cubes. The downside is they (Diesels) typically cost more, especially in trucks. I don't think you ever make back the milage saving $$ vs. Engine cost (over gasoline) but the Diesel is hard to beat for towing. It is also very relaxing to drive with the rumbling of the motor...

Check out some past Lemans and see how the diesels did, pretty amazing. Sadly here in the states we are only just getting some of the good ones unless you drive a truck...

Sandy

----- Original Message ----
From: Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com>
To: William Lau <mrlau at charter.net>; tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:27:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage

Mercedes still make them.  About 80% merc sales in uk and italy are
diesel.  They are good too but not the power houses of the audis.
Audi offer and 4 and 4.2 TDI all aluminum v8 in the A8 and vw have a
toureg with I think a 6 litre turbo diesel.  These are very refined
engines.



On 12/21/07, William Lau <mrlau at charter.net> wrote:
> You will notice though that Mercedes quit making them.  I think they had
> enough too. -- Bill --
>
> and i'll add to that, that towing or off the start you have so much
> torque in a diesel that it far outstrips the petrol.  its not max
> power you want for towing but torque for the low end power.
>
> but i agree those old 70's merc diesels were awful.  in germany they
> were only really used for taxis.
>
> On Dec 21, 2007 5:34 PM, Owain Lloyd <owain.lloyd at gmail.com> wrote:
> > chalk and cheese.  those old diesels were TERRIBLE!
> > high end diesels have come a long long in the last 5 or 6 years.
> > i had a choice between the 3.0 diesel, the 4.2 v8 petrol or the 5.2 v10
> petrol.
> >
> > i drove them all about 1000 miles a peice and the diesel was smoother,
> > quieter and had more usable power than the 4.2.  it is also a much
> > lighter engine so the car handles much better (audis always have a bit
> > of a problem with the weight up at the front end).  the 5.2 puts a
> > tiger like smile on your face but its not really necessary long trips
> > and over here the fuel economy and difference in purchase price mean
> > its not viable.
> _______________________________________________
> owain.lloyd at gmail.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>

-- 
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
_______________________________________________
sganz at pacbell.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From mrlau at charter.net  Fri Dec 21 12:27:23 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:27:23 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Tiger Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <333384.48360.qm@web82814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20071221192625.NSJI14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

They started making them again in 2005.  I will still let everyone else try
these things to prove them because in the middle seventies there were
glorifying articles just like this one.  I think I will go look at one just
to see what they are like out of curiosity.  They are only about 50 g so the
price isn't too bad. -- Bill --

 

This off the net.

 

"Mercedes plans to make only 3,000 of the CDIs available this year. It's my
belief that those will last as long as a snowball in July so trot to your
dealer instantly. But there is a rub. Even a diesel engine this clean is not
sold in California, New York, Massachusetts, Maine or Vermont."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+mrlau=charter.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Sandy
Ganz
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 1:10 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage

 

And if your not if California, you can get Mercedes SUV and Jeep's with
Diesels. My brother lives in oregon and drove his family down in his Jeep
Cherokee and it was nice, hardly could tell it was a Diesel. VW also has the
bug I think too,  like the VW v10 twin turbo diesel maybe be 5L??
(320+hp/550tq) in the Toureg, but it is crazy priced and I think my have
only been in CA for 1 year. Likely Audi derived. I drive a 7.3L Powerstroke
in an Excursion and it is anchient compaired to the 2 generations that came
after, which make way more power and have less cubes. The downside is they
(Diesels) typically cost more, especially in trucks. I don't think you ever
make back the milage saving $$ vs. Engine cost (over gasoline) but the
Diesel is hard to beat for towing. It is also very relaxing to drive with
the rumbling of the motor...

 

Check out some past Lemans and see how the diesels did, pretty amazing.
Sadly here in the states we are only just getting some of the good ones
unless you drive a truck...

 

Sandy

From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 13:23:39 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:23:39 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
Message-ID: <c2c.257c69bd.349d7acb@aol.com>

To me that 19.3 on a 289 is pretty impressive...especially with  that rearend.



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 13:25:56 2007
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:25:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Mileage & diesels
In-Reply-To: <39a841b0712210828m6162f5b2n92ab0041ac5d15cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161675.41820.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I wish my E-150 conversion van was a turbo-diesel, and I think my
wife's Mazda-5 would be pretty neat with a 4-cyl turbo diesel and
all-wheel-drive. Perhaps once the low sulfur diesel fuel is in wide
distribution (or is it already?), and some of the narrow minded state
law makers wake up to the benefits, we'll have more turbo diesel
options from the manufacturers.

If you doubt the performance of the turbo diesel, you should check out
the ALMS Audi @
http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/experience/motorsport/alms.html

and the upcoming VW TDI Cup Pro racing series: @
http://www.vw.com/vwhype/motorsport/en/us/?adID=email:tdisignup#/jetta_tdi_cup

Stephen Waybright

From CoolVT at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 13:35:38 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:35:38 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Mileage & diesels
Message-ID: <d44.1ae51e1e.349d7d9a@aol.com>

With the very reduced sulphur in the fuel, the new diesels are  accepted in 
something like 47 states with all states accepting them by the end  of the year.
Comsumer reports recently did a good test between a Mercedes E  
class....gasoline vs diesel.  I think they said the diesel was only about  $1,500 more than 
the gas job.  They claimed with the performance and lack  of noise, there was 
almost no telling the 2 apart expect the gas model did make  more power and 
the diesel got better mileage.  I guess the diesel felt  sluggish, but it was 
being compared to other semi-luxury cars which were pretty  fast...for example 
the BMW 5 series.
They still haven't reported on the winter starting or the  maintenance which 
is something that I would like to see. Yes, one of the Jeeps  is available 
with that Mercedes designed engine this  year.



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk  Fri Dec 21 13:37:23 2007
From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:37:23 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Mileage & diesels
In-Reply-To: <161675.41820.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <39a841b0712210828m6162f5b2n92ab0041ac5d15cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<161675.41820.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aWYQEOEDQCbHFwcY@v8tiger.demon.co.uk>

Steve,

as a guide to road going diesel sin Europe, I have  a BMW 535d

Twin turbos,
280 BHP,
can't recall the torque figure but its very close to the M5.
0-60 in 6.5 seconds and
35-40 miles to the gallon !!!

Not bad for a 5 seater station wagon !

Surprises a few rice burners   :-)

Now, would it fit into the Tiger ???


regards

Jeff

In message <161675.41820.qm at web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, Stephen 
Waybright <gswaybright at yahoo.com> writes
>I wish my E-150 conversion van was a turbo-diesel, and I think my
>wife's Mazda-5 would be pretty neat with a 4-cyl turbo diesel and
>all-wheel-drive. Perhaps once the low sulfur diesel fuel is in wide
>distribution (or is it already?), and some of the narrow minded state
>law makers wake up to the benefits, we'll have more turbo diesel
>options from the manufacturers.
>
>If you doubt the performance of the turbo diesel, you should check out
>the ALMS Audi @
>http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/experience/motorsport/alms.html
>
>and the upcoming VW TDI Cup Pro racing series: @
>http://www.vw.com/vwhype/motorsport/en/us/?adID=email:tdisignup#/jetta_tdi_cup
>
>Stephen Waybright
>_______________________________________________
>jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>

-- 
Jeff Howarth

From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 21 13:38:19 2007
From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:38:19 -0700
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
References: <20071221171150.HIGA14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
	<39a841b0712210934h4a8888coc2ce91e2f0551be7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY119-DAV882C2A2536457EFE0690FC15E0@phx.gbl>

I heard that one of the reasons that diesels are NOT popular in the US in 
cars is that we all remember all those bad early 80's diesel engines.  I 
remember trying to work on a couple of those I was never a happy camper.  If 
I remember right some of them were really just converted gas engine blocks 
that didn't have the engineering or design to be a long lasting and 
dependable diesel engine.

Since we have always associated big trucks with diesel engines the US seems 
more accepting in that area of the market place.

With the price of fuel in most of the rest of world so much higher than here 
(I think It was about 1 gbp per liter in the UK this summer which if I did 
my math right was over $7 a gallon) I think that the more efficient diesels 
are more readily accepted in places like that.  It is interesting to note 
that it seems the diesel is very popular in most other parts of the world, 
although I have to think they had to live through several generations of bad 
diesels too.  Interesting also in the US, that it is difficult to find a 
stick shift car on a new car lot.  Even if the automatic is an 'option' the 
problem is all the cars seem to have that option.  If you want an automatic 
rental car in Europe, you had better ask for it special because even the 
rentals are mostly manuals.  (which by the way is an interesting experience 
in England to throw in learning to shift with your left hand as well as the 
whole drive down the left side too).

I have to assume that diesels will eventually catch on again in cars here in 
the US as I think some of those small displacement TDI cars in Europe out 
perform the hybrids here in terms of fuel performance, especially if you do 
alot of highway driving.

Speaking of old technology that spooked me.... Anybody remember the system 
in the 80's Cadillac had to turn their 8 cyl engines into a 6 and then a 4 
based on power needs to get better fuel economy?  I heard that system was 
very unreliable and most people disconnect it and ran them as straight V8's. 
When I first heard that this technology was coming back, I was personally 
spooked, thinking that it was going to be like a 1980's replay all over 
again.  I've now heard that the technology is much better.  Anybody have one 
of those?  Does it work as well as advertised, and do you really get the mpg 
gain that they promise?

Steve


> chalk and cheese.  those old diesels were TERRIBLE!
> high end diesels have come a long long in the last 5 or 6 years.
> i had a choice between the 3.0 diesel, the 4.2 v8 petrol or the 5.2 v10 
> petrol.

From rande at thecia.net  Fri Dec 21 13:47:42 2007
From: rande at thecia.net (rande)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:47:42 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] diesels
Message-ID: <476c266e.512.0@thecia.net>

As someone previously mentioned, diesels are anything but dead  outside the States.


The correct figure for diesel sales in the UK and Europe is a little over 40
percent for new car sales, and diesels currently come in everything from MINI,
Focus, Golf, and Opel Astra's to Jaguar, BMW 3 and 5 series, Mercedes C, E,
and S class and even Chrysler 300's sold overseas. The redesigned London Cabs
that have been in service the past five years are powered by a Ford four cylinder
diesel.

Starting this coming Summer, Volkwagen will begin offering a 50-state diesel
in the Jetta, and they are only the first to begin bringing back passenger cars
to the States with diesel power.

Honda is about two years away from offering a diesel in its Accord for U.S.
buyers.

Rande
B382000048

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Dec 21 13:57:28 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:57:28 -0800
Subject: [Tigers]  Electrical Diagrams
In-Reply-To: <120420070338.21780.4754CBAF00066CB7000055142200750330970A04990E9D0DD206@comcast.net>
References: <120420070338.21780.4754CBAF00066CB7000055142200750330970A04990E9D0DD206@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <476C28B8.7040006@SoCal.rr.com>

Belatedly,

I recommend the information on TigersUnited.com for colored wiring 
diagrams for the Tiger Mk I and II.

Bill Gegg kindly produced these diagrams, which others have pirated and 
are selling in printed and CD form.

It is in our Workshop Manual, and the "Find" method also links them.

For direct topic, see:

http://www.tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/wsmN36.asp

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



j.brawley at comcast.net wrote:

>Trying to get wipers to work, just got a new dash wiper switch from SS.  I somehow lost the diagram I had made for the connections on the back of the switch.  Can anyone tell me what terminal # s the ground, Brown.light green, and Red light green connect too??  
>
>The back of the switch has prong connections for 1,4,6, 7,and 8.
>
>Thanks for the help, John
>_______________________________________________

From shutchin at netjets.com  Fri Dec 21 13:58:57 2007
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:58:57 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Mileage & diesels
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B96EBD4@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

Here's a question for you engineer types. Is the diesel engine more efficient, or does diesel fuel just have more energy in it?. 

I know that the reason we use lbs for the fuel quantity indication in jet aircraft is that the fuel has variable density but a lb of fuel has about the same amount of energy in it. Ie we can go about 6200 nm miles on about 40000 lbs with adequate reserves. Jet A will require slighly less total gallons of fuel to make this than jet b. Jet b is a little closer to gasoline on the cracking tower. 

It is permissible to run a jet engine on gasoline in many cases. In this situation you will burn more gallons, but about the same amount of lbs. Gasoline weighs about 6 lbs per gallon and Jet A about 6.7. 

As a side note most manufacturers put a time limit on how long you can operate gasoline becuase it wears out the high pressure fuel pumps. 

Anyway diesel is very close to jet A. A little heavier I think. 


Scott Hutchinson
Assistant Director of Operations
Netjets International

Office 860.292.1191
Mobile 843.290.2805

** *******
This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error,  please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message.

From joe at herrmannfinancial.com  Fri Dec 21 14:15:33 2007
From: joe at herrmannfinancial.com (Joe Rebelo)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:15:33 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] paint input for B9547
Message-ID: <C1161D4343363548B6EAD2B6F5AEEA20894966@svrhfsdc.hfs.local>

I am getting ready to strip my Tiger which is '65 B9470666 .  I am
looking for some input on the type of paint to have my body guy to use.
He is recommending Base coat / clear coat for longevity, and I think the
original is single stage.  I really don't know what this means, but
thought people would have some opinions,.  The car will be going back to
code 86, but is currently a heavily weathered yellow.  Look forward to
any input.



Thanks

Joe



Joseph V Rebelo Jr. LUTCF(r)



Herrmann Financial Services, Inc.

370 Diablo Road, Suite 201

Danville, CA  94526

800-434-6837   PH  925-831-0200 FX 925-831-8957

www.herrmannfinancial.com <http://www.herrmannfinancial.com/>







PLEASE READ THIS WARNING:  All e-mail sent to or from this address will
be received or otherwise recorded by the Herrmann Financial Services,
Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring
and/or review, by and/or disclosure to, someone other than the
recipient. This message is intended only for the use of the person(s)
("intended recipient") to whom it is addressed. It may contain
information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and
delete the message without reading it or making a copy. Any
dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or
any of its content by any person other than the intended recipient is
strictly prohibited. Herrmann Financial Services, Inc. have taken
precautions to screen this message for viruses, but we cannot guarantee
that it is virus free nor are we responsible for any damage that may be
caused by this message.



Herrmann Financial Services, Inc. only transacts business in states
where it is properly registered or notice filed, or excluded or exempted
from registration requirements. Follow-up and individualized responses
that involve either the effecting or attempting to effect transactions
in securities, or the rendering of personalized investment advice for
compensation, as the case may be, will not be made absent compliance
with state investment adviser and investment adviser representative
registration requirements, or an applicable exemption or exclusion.

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Dec 21 14:24:25 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:24:25 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] [Fwd: The coolest Christmas jingle in a while]
Message-ID: <476C2F09.5010003@SoCal.rr.com>

Tigers,

Seasons Greetings, or a Cool Yule and a Frantic First


The song was originally recorded by the Drifters in 1954. 
     Pump up the volume - these reindeer sing.

http://www.thecompassgroup.biz/merryxmas.swf

Steve
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com
 <http://TigersUnited.com>

From gswaybright at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 21 14:29:03 2007
From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:29:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Mileage & diesels
In-Reply-To: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B96EBD4@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>
Message-ID: <520320.66302.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

As I recall (and this is more contextual memory than factual after all
the years since my thermodynamics classes) Diesel fuel has less
specific energy, which is why they are not very powerful without a
turbo, but the very high compression combustion significantly increases
thermal effeciency.

Someone mentioned the high power, high efficiency Smokey Yunick car at
the upcoming Russo & steele auction... When that car was first covered
in Popular Mechanics back in the 80's I tried to model the termal cycle
to figure out how this thing could possibly work (at least
theoretically). I ended up playing with thermal cycles that used a
turbo to compress some crazy ratios (>35:1 if I recall, maybe as high
as 60:1) to get the kind of efficieny his engine was claiming, but none
of the magazine info reflected an engine that could endure that kind of
pressure. I may have to bid on it to finally verify my theories these
20+ years later!

Stephen Waybright

--- Scott Hutchinson <shutchin at netjets.com> wrote:

> 
> Here's a question for you engineer types. Is the diesel engine more
> efficient, or does diesel fuel just have more energy in it?. 

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Fri Dec 21 14:31:48 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:31:48 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] paint input for B9547
In-Reply-To: <C1161D4343363548B6EAD2B6F5AEEA20894966@svrhfsdc.hfs.local>
References: <C1161D4343363548B6EAD2B6F5AEEA20894966@svrhfsdc.hfs.local>
Message-ID: <476C30C4.2040300@SoCal.rr.com>

Joe,

My color was the Rootes version of BRG, but a bit weathered.  I did 
paint it with a base coat and clear coat to get the finish brighter and 
longer lasting.  NO metallic used.  The old enamel paints had some 
advantages over even the hand rubbed lacquer, but nothing like the two 
part systems available now.  I have been pleased with the results.

Steve

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Joe Rebelo wrote:

>I am getting ready to strip my Tiger which is '65 B9470666 .  I am
>looking for some input on the type of paint to have my body guy to use.
>He is recommending Base coat / clear coat for longevity, and I think the
>original is single stage.  I really don't know what this means, but
>thought people would have some opinions,.  The car will be going back to
>code 86, but is currently a heavily weathered yellow.  Look forward to
>any input.
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>Joseph V Rebelo Jr. LUTCF(r)

From MWood24020 at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 14:44:30 2007
From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:44:30 EST
Subject: [Tigers] paint input for B9547
Message-ID: <d64.19ec9ead.349d8dbe@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/21/2007 1:32:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com writes:

I did  
paint it with a base coat and clear coat to get the finish brighter and  
longer lasting.


 
I agree with Steve. I just did paint on my car and went with a  
base/clear...it may not be "correct", but it looks better and will last longer.  Since I 
also went with a non-original color, it was kind of academic.
 
If you're going to create a concours car, I'd suggest a single stage and an  
enclosed trailer...  ;-)



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From tbrown at midcoast.com  Fri Dec 21 14:50:14 2007
From: tbrown at midcoast.com (Theodore Brown)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:50:14 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Diesel Efficiency
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20071221164642.022631a8@midcoast.com>

It has always been my understanding that diesels are more efficient because 
they use a much
higher compression ratio than a typical gasoline engine, thus allowing the 
mixture to do more
work when ignited.  We all know that higher compression ratios yield more 
power.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From srwick at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 21 14:59:18 2007
From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:59:18 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] paint input for B9547
In-Reply-To: <C1161D4343363548B6EAD2B6F5AEEA20894966@svrhfsdc.hfs.local>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F308D368F381EDC1756F666D85E0@phx.gbl>

I painted a Mustang with PPG's "DCC Concepts" Urethane paint because it is 
basically tinted
clear coat. If I get a chip in the paint, it can be touched up without 
showing. So far, I have
been pleased with it. Kind of expensive, but I think worth it.

Steve (in N.Id.)


>From: "Joe Rebelo" <joe at herrmannfinancial.com>
>To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
>Subject: [Tigers] paint input for B9547
>Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:15:33 -0800
>
>I am getting ready to strip my Tiger which is '65 B9470666 .  I am
>looking for some input on the type of paint to have my body guy to use.
>He is recommending Base coat / clear coat for longevity, and I think the
>original is single stage.  I really don't know what this means, but
>thought people would have some opinions,.  The car will be going back to
>code 86, but is currently a heavily weathered yellow.  Look forward to
>any input.
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>Joseph V Rebelo Jr. LUTCF(r)
>
>
>
>Herrmann Financial Services, Inc.
>
>370 Diablo Road, Suite 201
>
>Danville, CA  94526
>
>800-434-6837   PH  925-831-0200 FX 925-831-8957
>
>www.herrmannfinancial.com <http://www.herrmannfinancial.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>PLEASE READ THIS WARNING:  All e-mail sent to or from this address will
>be received or otherwise recorded by the Herrmann Financial Services,
>Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring
>and/or review, by and/or disclosure to, someone other than the
>recipient. This message is intended only for the use of the person(s)
>("intended recipient") to whom it is addressed. It may contain
>information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and
>delete the message without reading it or making a copy. Any
>dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or
>any of its content by any person other than the intended recipient is
>strictly prohibited. Herrmann Financial Services, Inc. have taken
>precautions to screen this message for viruses, but we cannot guarantee
>that it is virus free nor are we responsible for any damage that may be
>caused by this message.
>
>
>
>Herrmann Financial Services, Inc. only transacts business in states
>where it is properly registered or notice filed, or excluded or exempted
>from registration requirements. Follow-up and individualized responses
>that involve either the effecting or attempting to effect transactions
>in securities, or the rendering of personalized investment advice for
>compensation, as the case may be, will not be made absent compliance
>with state investment adviser and investment adviser representative
>registration requirements, or an applicable exemption or exclusion.
>_______________________________________________
>srwick at hotmail.com
>
>Tigers at autox.team.net
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Dec 21 15:02:46 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:02:46 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] paint input for B9547
In-Reply-To: <C1161D4343363548B6EAD2B6F5AEEA20894966@svrhfsdc.hfs.local>
References: <C1161D4343363548B6EAD2B6F5AEEA20894966@svrhfsdc.hfs.local>
Message-ID: <476C3806.1050009@mayfco.com>

Joe, all,
I am having an estimate made for painting my old Tiger. I should have it 
next week. right now th ecar is Omaha orange modified to make it a bit 
brioghter. The painter says he n=has a metallic pearlescent orange that 
will be perfect for the car, will have about the same shade of 
orangeness as it has now. He also want to sapend a million manhours 
taking out the body waves, lol... this will be a base coat clear coat 2 
stage stuff. As with soem others, not original but willbe pretty none 
the less. If I can afford it... Will let everyone know about the costs 
for the body work and paint next week after Christmas.  Also going to 
have the bumpers rechromed and the front one repaired/straightned out.  
As ya'llmight have figured out by now, I am not a purist when it comes 
to my cars, especially the red race ca, lol..

mayf
Joe Rebelo wrote:

>I am getting ready to strip my Tiger which is '65 B9470666 .  I am
>looking for some input on the type of paint to have my body guy to use.
>He is recommending Base coat / clear coat for longevity, and I think the
>original is single stage.  I really don't know what this means, but
>thought people would have some opinions,.  The car will be going back to
>code 86, but is currently a heavily weathered yellow.  Look forward to
>any input.
>
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>Joseph V Rebelo Jr. LUTCF(r)
>
>
>
>Herrmann Financial Services, Inc.
>
>370 Diablo Road, Suite 201
>
>Danville, CA  94526
>
>800-434-6837   PH  925-831-0200 FX 925-831-8957
>
>www.herrmannfinancial.com <http://www.herrmannfinancial.com/>

From tbrown at midcoast.com  Fri Dec 21 15:06:10 2007
From: tbrown at midcoast.com (Theodore Brown)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:06:10 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Paint
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20071221165730.023bcd20@midcoast.com>

Joe:

I had my Tiger repainted about five years ago using the base coat/clearcoat 
combo and am
happy with the outcome.  My car is also code 86, so you can take a look if 
you want at
http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/View_Listing.asp?ListingID=COL609221

The guy who painted the car was able to match the color pretty accurately 
so it looks
very much as it did when it was new.

Tod
B382002384LRXFE

From FHSLOTH13 at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 15:19:46 2007
From: FHSLOTH13 at aol.com (FHSLOTH13 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:19:46 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Gas Mileage & diesels
Message-ID: <d02.24f956e3.349d9602@aol.com>

Seems to me that this thread has gotten so off the track that there is no  
more track for it to ride on.
 
The plain and simple fact is that we don't own Tigers for their terrific  gas 
mileage but for the shear enjoyment of hurtling down the highway at warp  
speeds as rice-burning John Q. Public jealously looks on in amazement.
 
Being John Q. Public in everyday life has one advantage - the money we save  
at the pumps can go for improvements to our Tigers.
 
Just my 2 gallons worth.
 
Fred Baum
9470768, 20 MPG and proud of it



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From FHSLOTH13 at aol.com  Fri Dec 21 15:33:24 2007
From: FHSLOTH13 at aol.com (FHSLOTH13 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:33:24 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger gas mileage
Message-ID: <d59.1cfdaa99.349d9934@aol.com>

Do you think Dr. Mayf is worried about gas mileage as he approaches 200  MPH?
 
Then why should we be concerned at 125?
 
Fred Baum
9470768, can't go 125, but been to 105



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

From gammaman at mokancomm.net  Fri Dec 21 15:45:12 2007
From: gammaman at mokancomm.net (Richard Bruner)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:45:12 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Paint
References: <5.0.2.1.1.20071221165730.023bcd20@midcoast.com>
Message-ID: <00c801c84423$266e5c10$6401a8c0@yourus67pi6luv>

Hey, I thought that was Andy Rooney's car?!  Just kidding ; )

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Theodore Brown" <tbrown at midcoast.com>
To: "Joe Rebelo" <joe at herrmannfinancial.com>; <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 4:06 PM
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Paint


> Joe:
>
> I had my Tiger repainted about five years ago using the base 
> coat/clearcoat
> combo and am
> happy with the outcome.  My car is also code 86, so you can take a look if
> you want at
> http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/View_Listing.asp?ListingID=COL609221
>
> The guy who painted the car was able to match the color pretty accurately
> so it looks
> very much as it did when it was new.
>
> Tod
> B382002384LRXFE
> _______________________________________________
> gammaman at mokancomm.net
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.6/1192 - Release Date: 
> 12/21/2007 1:17 PM

From RSSmithIQ at cs.com  Fri Dec 21 16:03:33 2007
From: RSSmithIQ at cs.com (Randy Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:03:33 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] AutoWeek
Message-ID: <476C4645.1040903@cs.com>

The latest issue of AutoWeek has an article on 10th annual Texas 1000 
vintage road rally.  (A pricey private sponsored rally held in  early 
November.)   One of the pictures shows a a nice looking Tiger.  I assume 
it's a Tiger, not an Alpine, from the hood scoop.  It looks either light 
blue or possibly gray and has two black hood stripes.  No front tag, but 
it appears to have side pipes.  Anyone know who it might be?  Bet it was 
a fun week!  You can see the article and the picture online at:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071220/FREE/71207008/-1/ehg-crain.hitbox.com&template=zoom&Site=CW&Date=20071220&Category=FREE&ArtNo=71207008&Ref=V2&CRED= 
<http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071220/FREE/71207008/-1/ehg-crain.hitbox.com&template=zoom&Site=CW&Date=20071220&Category=FREE&ArtNo=71207008&Ref=V2&CRED=>

-Randy
-- 

Randy Smith
INNER QUEST, Inc.
34752 Charles Town Pike
Purcellville, VA  20132
703-478-1078
540-668-6699
540-668-6253 fax

InnerQuestOnline.com <http://www.innerquestonline.com/>
RSSmithIQ at cs.com
Tiger- B382000189

From e.coiner at cox.net  Fri Dec 21 16:12:33 2007
From: e.coiner at cox.net (e.coiner at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:12:33 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D15760A035@dsimail.ad.garmin.com>
Message-ID: <20071221181233.5Z5WJ.13325.root@fed1wml02.mgt.cox.net>

---- "Smit wrote: 
> I'll bite: Are diesels actually more thermodynamically efficient than
> gasoline engines?

Are you asking "In theory" or in practice?

The elementary thermodynamic models I learned in college thermo classes were called "Air standard cycles"

The Otto cycle is modeled as 4 thermodynamic processes.
1. Adiabatic compression
2. Constant volume heat addition
3. Adiabatic Expansion.
4. Constant volume heat rejection.

The Diesel cycle is modeled as
1. Adiabatic compression
2. Constant Pressure heat addition
3. Adiabatic Expansion.
4. Constant volume heat rejection.

Both models show that increasing Compression ratio increases thermal efficiciency.
At the same compression ratio the Otto cycle is more thermodynamically efficient than the Diesel cycle.

In the real world a spark ignition engine is limited in CR by the knock and ping properties of the fuel.

Diesels don't have that limit and in fact require much higher CR's to get enough heat to burn the fuel when injected.

In the real world the Diesel is more efficient because it has a higher CR.

Two other factors make a Diesel engine get better mileage.

1. Diesel fuel has more BTU's /lb than gasoline.
2. Diesel engine does not have a throttle plate to choke part throttle air flow.

At part throttle operation the gas engine piston is pulling down against intake manifold vacuum. The takes energy to pull against said vacuum.
That energy is not available to drive the wheels.

No throttle on a diesel, no pumping loss= more mileage.

In summary:  Diesels do better for 3 reasons.

1. Higher compression ratio
2. Higher energy content per gallon
3. No pumping losses from the throttle plates.

From lpaulick at comcast.net  Fri Dec 21 16:51:18 2007
From: lpaulick at comcast.net (Larry Paulick)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:51:18 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] emails
Message-ID: <476C5176.7060800@comcast.net>

test

Larry

From chris at cthompson.net  Fri Dec 21 17:08:01 2007
From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:08:01 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Gas Mileage
In-Reply-To: <20071221181233.5Z5WJ.13325.root@fed1wml02.mgt.cox.net>
References: <20071221181233.5Z5WJ.13325.root@fed1wml02.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <476C5561.9090104@cthompson.net>

In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.
;-)


> Are you asking "In theory" or in practice?

From jimbo.ander at verizon.net  Fri Dec 21 17:53:04 2007
From: jimbo.ander at verizon.net (Jim Anderson)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:53:04 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Diesel taxis
Message-ID: <45F517D9674F4A4E80DD11EF0EF48904@JimPC>

   Please don't knock the Mercedes 190 diesel taxis in Germany (They did their
own knocking). They ran forever, were safe and the drivers loved them because
there was practically no maintenance and thus were cheap. Also on a cold,
rainy night in Berlin or Frankfurt they were a warm safe familiar haven.
     I bought the nearest, affordable equivalent when we came back to this
country, a Peugeot diesel station wagon and although it had problems (none
serious) and the 0-60 time was close to one hour, it was the perfect car for a
family with two teenager boys who had drivers licenses and were in rock bands.
The back of the station wagon was big enough to contain their huge amps and
speakers and they were never tempted to out-drag any other vehicle, including
Metro buses. They survived and thrived and we basically gave the car away to a
nearby "Peugeot Speciality" garage run by a guy who emptied the company's safe
and ran away to spend it on dope, but that's another story.
    Jim Anderson

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Fri Dec 21 18:33:52 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:33:52 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger gas mileage
In-Reply-To: <d59.1cfdaa99.349d9934@aol.com>
References: <d59.1cfdaa99.349d9934@aol.com>
Message-ID: <476C6980.1030506@mayfco.com>

Hey, I hadn't thought about that mpg on the salt. I use about a gallon 
of ERC's A8C, 120 octane fuel (12 bucks a gallon) in a 4 mile run.  So 4 
mpg, lol...  I have even considered adding about 10% nitro to cool 
things down just a bit just to raise the cost a tad more..

mayf

FHSLOTH13 at aol.com wrote:

>Do you think Dr. Mayf is worried about gas mileage as he approaches 200  MPH?
> 
>Then why should we be concerned at 125?
> 
>Fred Baum
>9470768, can't go 125, but been to 105

From modtiger at comcast.net  Fri Dec 21 18:40:36 2007
From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:40:36 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] AutoWeek
In-Reply-To: <476C4645.1040903@cs.com>
References: <476C4645.1040903@cs.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20071221172523.0234a008@comcast.net>

At 03:03 PM 12/21/2007, you wrote:
>The latest issue of AutoWeek has an article on 10th annual Texas 1000
>vintage road rally.  (A pricey private sponsored rally held in  early
>November.)   One of the pictures shows a a nice looking Tiger.  I assume
>it's a Tiger, not an Alpine, from the hood scoop.  It looks either light
>blue or possibly gray and has two black hood stripes.  No front tag, but
>it appears to have side pipes.  Anyone know who it might be?  Bet it was
>a fun week!  You can see the article and the picture online at:

Would appear to be the Tiger that Doane Spencer built for Daryl Brunn 
in the late 90's .  Was for sale last year or so for major bucks in 
the Florida area if I recall. B9471558 TAC # 426.


Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
www.tigerengineering.net

From shutchin at netjets.com  Fri Dec 21 18:42:56 2007
From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:42:56 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger gas mileage
Message-ID: <E923BF0D7326E745804634650F439C5B96EBD6@cmhprdexc03.netjets.com>

G-V gets 1mpg.  


Scott Hutchinson
Assistant Director of Operations
Netjets International

Office 860.292.1191
Mobile 843.290.2805

** *******
This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error,  please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message.

From hokey at oasisol.com  Fri Dec 21 19:06:44 2007
From: hokey at oasisol.com (Mike Hokanson)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:06:44 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Fuel Mileage
Message-ID: <00da01c8443f$4d51bd10$1b05a8c0@iggy>

I've worked around many gas-guzzling toyz in my time, but the F-18 Hornet in
afterburner doesn't do so hot in the fuel consumption area :-)  Neat to watch
the fuel meter run during high-power turns.  Aaahhh.... the smell of tax $$$
on a quiet night out in the desert!  I'm sure the Gulfstream V does much
better in it's grocery runs.... and you can take someone with you!

From mrlau at charter.net  Fri Dec 21 21:43:23 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:43:23 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]   Tiger Gas Mileage
Message-ID: <20071222044224.GBTQ17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

I bought it new from Plaza Motors in St. Louis for $15,500 and the manual
said to change every 2500 with the filter and it was a 240 D. -- Bill --


Don't know why you had this experience with the Mercedes diesel, as they 
are great cars.

Our 1985 E300TD got 27 mpg in town and 33 mpg on the highway.  Changed 
oil every 8500 miles, and put 250,000 on it, without doing anything to 
the engine.  Sold it to a mechanic friend who still has it at 375,000 mile

Brother-in-law has same 85 diesel and ran it to 550,000, no work to 
engine, but someone hit the car and insurance company considered it a 
total for the cost of body repair.

Wife now drives a 1998 E300TD, it gets 27 mpg town and 35 mpg highway, 
no work to engine, except several o-rings to fuel injection, with 
152,000 miles and change oil at 8500 miles.

New E320 CDI diesel gets even better mileage, and is 0.10 sec slower to 
60 than the E350 gas engine.

Diesels are great cars, which is why most of Europe uses them for 
economy, long life and maintenance cost.  Cabs in Europe are almost 
exclusively diesel.

You must have purchased a poorly maintained car, and I don't know who 
told you to change oil at 2500 miles.

Larry

William Lau wrote:

>I bought a Mercedes diesel in 1979.  It got 28 mpg city or highway, but the
>power it was supposed to have wasn't there.  It wasn't the turbo model but
>they weren't any quicker because it was off the line that they were all but
>embarrassing.  At highway speeds it was fine but power is needed at the
>start, especially if you are towing.  I had it for 140,000 miles and it did
>last pretty well because in those days nothing lasted that long.  When I
>sold it, one of the camshaft lobes was disappearing and at highway speeds
it
>would only go 70mph with the pedal on the floor.  All of them were like
that
>and in 1980 they started to put carbide followers on the rockers so the cam
>would last longer.  I don't know if it worked or not.  The oil had to be
>changed every 2500 miles and the oil was more expensive and the filter at
>that time cost $15 and that little engine took 7 quarts.  At 2500 miles the
>oil looked like it would take a putty knife to get it all out.  That was 56
>oil changes while I had it and it still wore out.  I understand that they
>are improved when it comes to cold weather starting but one time I had to
>take an old Mustang to the grocery store when it was about -5 degrees and
>hook up a 110 volt generator off the Mustang battery so I could plug the
>Mercedes in and warm the engine with the block heater for 30 minutes so it
>would start.  I acted like I owned the Mustang and was just helping the
lady
>in the car (My wife). Never again a diesel for me.  I am cured of that
>notion.-- Bill --

From dublet at telus.net  Thu Dec 20 21:27:29 2007
From: dublet at telus.net (dublet)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:27:29 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger for sale
Message-ID: <007701c84389$cccf5720$51b8b742@brianspc>

Decided to put the car up for sale , located in Victoria BC , long time owner
, Have a look, nice car lots of options . Thanks the wealth of information on
this list , has helped me alot over the years.
http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/4475549&category=specialty-antique-
collector-cars  or

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/car/511605909.html

From mrlau at charter.net  Sat Dec 22 11:02:14 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:02:14 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]    Tiger Gas Mileage
Message-ID: <20071222180116.ZTMW14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

685, 000 miles is pretty amazing for a car to go on one engine and pretty
amazing to drive that far period.  That would be 187 miles per day 7 days a
week for 10 years and if he changed oil according to the manual it would be
almost 500 gallons of oil changes.  Ich bin Deutcher auch   so maybe your
brother in law and I are related.  - Bill Lau--

 

Only under extreme conditions, but not normal driving.  Brother-in-law has a
240D, which he drove for 685,000 miles and was very prompt in his
maintenance.  

He was German, used his cars in his construction business, went to diesel
school, and did all the maintenance himself, including changing the injector
nozzles at 250,000 miles, with the special Mercedes tools.

He bought oil in 55 gallon drums, so cost was low, and even had his own fuel
tanks at his shop to fuel all trucks, cars, and loaders.

Our government get so wrapped up with mileage, that they prompt cars like
the Piras (spelling), but with a Mercedes E320 CDI, you get higher mileage,
a larger car with a larger load capacity, a car that can easily go 100's of
thousands of miles with low maintenance, a car that meets EPA emission std.,
except in 5 states, which will soon change, and at a cost per mile per life
span that is well above most if not all of the green cars on the market.

As noted before, BMW, Audi, Peugeot, and some Jap engines have excellent
diesels as well, and the benefits have been enjoyed outside the US for
years.

GM tried to take a gas V-8 and make a diesel, but it was such a flop, that
GM paid dearly for the terrible engineering in replacement motors.

Must have been the Bean Counters who designed the engine.

BTW, my wife's 1998 E300TD performs very nicely at Summit Point Raceway.

Larry


William Lau wrote:



I bought it new from Plaza Motors in St. Louis for $15,500 and the manual
said to change every 2500 with the filter and it was a 240 D. -- Bill --
 
 
Don't know why you had this experience with the Mercedes diesel, as they 
are great cars.

From shelbycuda at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 22 13:59:30 2007
From: shelbycuda at hotmail.com (Dan Kuenzi)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:59:30 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
Message-ID: <BAY125-W8923635EF01BDD8C5A1A6D55F0@phx.gbl>

I have an emergency battery question, any comments on your experiences are
appreciated.

We are thinking of buying a relative a Battery Booster Car Starter or Battery
Jumper Car Starter (Black & Decker makes both types, cost is roughly $45).
She lives in Arizona where the extreme heat causes shorter car battery life,
and when the battery goes, it dies without warning (her last battery would no
longer accept a charge).  My thought is to purchase the Battery Jumper Car
Starter unit versus the Booster type in the event her car battery is dead and
no longer accepting a charge.  Any direct experience using either type in a
case where battery is no longer accepting a charge?


Thank you in advance.

Dan
_________________________________________________________________
The best games are on Xbox 360.  Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360
Console.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Dec 22 14:25:21 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:25:21 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
In-Reply-To: <BAY125-W8923635EF01BDD8C5A1A6D55F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY125-W8923635EF01BDD8C5A1A6D55F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <476D80C1.8070006@SoCal.rr.com>

Dan,

For a great number of years I have been using "Battery Tender Plus" 
chargers.  They are NOT large battery chargers, nor "trickle" chargers, 
which can fry your battery.  They are a small charger that MAINTAIN 
battery charge, and does not charge when the battery is charged.

This prevents "cooking" your battery, or boiling off the fluid.  I have 
them on three cars that are generally parked and used occasionally.  
Always ready. About $60, list, and local suppliers and web store are 
found.  I bought mine at Pep Boys.

Their "home" is:

http://batterytender.com/

and, specifically

http://batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_2

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



Dan Kuenzi wrote:

>I have an emergency battery question, any comments on your experiences are
>appreciated.

From mrlau at charter.net  Sat Dec 22 14:29:51 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:29:51 -0600
Subject: [Tigers]  Battery Booster vs Jumper
Message-ID: <20071222212852.CPFV17353.aarprv04.charter.net@aardvark>

There are two basic things to look at.  How long each will hold a charge
sitting around, and which one holds the most.  Check for an ampere hour
rating to see which is the highest.  Some of these are made to plug into the
cigarette lighter to recharge the existing battery and this would do you no
good if the other is bad.  The only kind worthwhile in the situation you are
describing is one that can jump the other battery or in other words start
the car by itself. -- Bill --


I have an emergency battery question, any comments on your experiences are
appreciated.

We are thinking of buying a relative a Battery Booster Car Starter or
Battery
Jumper Car Starter (Black & Decker makes both types, cost is roughly $45).
She lives in Arizona where the extreme heat causes shorter car battery life,
and when the battery goes, it dies without warning (her last battery would
no
longer accept a charge).  My thought is to purchase the Battery Jumper Car
Starter unit versus the Booster type in the event her car battery is dead
and
no longer accepting a charge.  Any direct experience using either type in a
case where battery is no longer accepting a charge?


Thank you in advance.

Dan
_________________________________________________________________

From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Dec 22 14:42:47 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:42:47 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
Message-ID: <c32.211b6124.349eded7@aol.com>

Hi Dan,
Having survived the freezing Vermont winters for too many years to  count I 
can tell you of my experiences.  With the cold weather there is  normally some 
kind of warning (but not always) when the battery is going  bad....normally 
slower cranking.
The devices you are talking about are good, but not sure they would  solve 
your relative's problem.  A portable "jump starter" will  normally start a car, 
but if her battery won't accept a charge that means if it  does start, the 
alternator won't be able to recharge the battery and the car  will either die or 
possibly have some damage done.
A normal battery charger has the same problem.  If the battery  won't hold a 
charge, the charger will do no good.
My practice in the cold climates has been to change the battery  after 5 
years regardless of how good I think it still is.  I change them  before I have a 
problem...just watch for a sale.
I realize that most companies make a battery specifically for the  northren 
region.  I think there is also one for the hot  climates.
The last issue of Consumer Reports that I read on battery tests  were pretty 
surprising. The ones we've heard a lot of "name brands"  that is, the ones 
that are advertised the most also tend to be the most  expensive. But, upon 
testing they aren't necessarily the best  ones.
Surprise, surprise one of the best tested was the one available  from 
Walmart.  I can't remember the brand name or who makes it for them,  but it was one 
of the best  and at about 30-40% cheaper  than almost all of the  name brands.
The other thing I do is forget what the book says my car/truck  needs... I go 
for the largest battery that will fit in the tray and under the  hood. 
Normally all batteries within a class are the same price regardless of  their size, 
cranking power or reserve.
On the warranty...CR found that many batteries of the same brand,  but with 
different length warranties, performed exactly the same.  In other  words, with 
a longer warranty you are buying an insurance policy. I confirmed  this with 
a Interstate Battery store. The guy said most of the batteries with  different 
warranties are exactly the same...a buyer has to figure his/her  situation 
and decide if the extra is worth it.
So, that's what I know about batteries in the cold north. I know  you have a 
different problem with the heat and I'm sure someone can chime in  with their 
experience on that.
Mark
 



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From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Dec 22 14:45:07 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:45:07 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
Message-ID: <ca4.23068cb2.349edf63@aol.com>

Steve, 
I agree on the Battery Tender.  I keep the Tiger battery,  riding lawnmower 
and motorcycle batteries charged during the winter with  one.  You should know, 
will they help in Dan's situation with the  heat?
M



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From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Dec 22 14:55:39 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:55:39 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
In-Reply-To: <ca4.23068cb2.349edf63@aol.com>
References: <ca4.23068cb2.349edf63@aol.com>
Message-ID: <476D87DB.1030503@SoCal.rr.com>

Mark,

Well, I don't know about REALLY Hot, but here the summers (most of the 
year is summer) gets to 105 degrees by 9:00 a.m.  But it does get mighty 
chilly  Works fine, and the coolant doesn't get hot, either.  (See 
TigersUnited.com)

But it does get mighty chilly in the winter (65F low) for about 2 1/2 
months. It's 72 now, at 1:30 pm.

I HAVE used the taper down battery chargers, but they boil out the 
electrolyte.  A Battery Tender can be left on for years, and will NOT 
overcharge the battery.

___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com



CoolVT at aol.com wrote:

>Steve, 
>I agree on the Battery Tender.  I keep the Tiger battery,  riding lawnmower 
>and motorcycle batteries charged during the winter with  one.  You should know, 
>will they help in Dan's situation with the  heat?
>M

From chris at cthompson.net  Sat Dec 22 16:20:08 2007
From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:20:08 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
In-Reply-To: <476D87DB.1030503@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <ca4.23068cb2.349edf63@aol.com>
  <476D87DB.1030503@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <476D9BA8.3060203@cthompson.net>

I agree with Steve on the Battery Tenders - I've got about a dozen of 
'em.  I use them always when charging a battery as most other chargers 
will hurt a battery.  But they won't help a battery that won't hold a 
charge.

I disagree on the "jumpstarters" not helping with the situation of 
having a battery that is shot and won't hold a charge.  It will get you 
started, and to work.  It will get you started again at lunchtime when 
you go to the store to get a new battery.  The car will run on the 
alternator in the meantime.

As to the original question - what's the difference between a Battery 
Booster Car Starter or Battery Jumper Car Starter, I didn't know there 
was a difference between these jump-packs.  Waiting to hear a 
clarification....

Chris
B382000331

From mrlau at charter.net  Sat Dec 22 16:48:15 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:48:15 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
Message-ID: <20071222234716.JNDN14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

I think the difference is that the Booster is used when you left the lights
on in a car or otherwise discharged a good battery and you just plug it in
the lighter to recharge it so it will start, whereas the Jumper is where you
hook it up to the low or dead battery and immediately start it. Some will
work both ways and others don't have the cables to use both ways and will
only plug into the lighter. The booster of course won't help if the battery
is ruined and won't hold a charge. - Bill --

 

As to the original question - what's the difference between a Battery
Booster Car Starter or Battery Jumper Car Starter, I didn't know there was a
difference between these jump-packs.  Waiting to hear a clarification....

From mrlau at charter.net  Sat Dec 22 16:58:18 2007
From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:58:18 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
Message-ID: <20071222235719.JTSM14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>

Check this out as you may like it and its capabilities are explained well
and it was in the price range you mentioned. - Bill --

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00078WJUO?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
<http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00078WJUO?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextag-auto-20&l
inkCode=asn> &tag=nextag-auto-20&linkCode=asn

From CoolVT at aol.com  Sun Dec 23 08:40:46 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:40:46 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay Alger
Message-ID: <cbd.22e3589f.349fdb7e@aol.com>

Funny that the seller of Alger #140189086032 on Ebay  couldn't get a bid of 
more than $4,200.  I would think that even an Alger  would be worth more than 
that. Possibly people were afraid of the car because of  the Tiger body parts?  
Seems to me that someone who knew nothing about  Tigers and wasn't a member 
of this list, and therefore not known about the  controversy, would have paid 
more than $4,200.
Mark




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From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net  Sun Dec 23 15:24:36 2007
From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:24:36 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Ebay Alger
Message-ID: <000c01c845b2$99f9cf80$6401a8c0@your03667082de>

Funny that the seller of Alger #140189086032 on Ebay  couldn't get a bid of
more than $4,200.  I would think that even an Alger  would be worth more than
that. Possibly people were afraid of the car because of  the Tiger body parts?
Seems to me that someone who knew nothing about  Tigers and wasn't a member
of this list, and therefore not known about the  controversy, would have paid
more than $4,200.

I think the seller would have more success selling in the spring instead of
the week before Xmas.



                                                   Jeff

From sganz at pacbell.net  Sun Dec 23 23:41:25 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:41:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Mini-Alternator work
Message-ID: <619774.7127.qm@web82813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I did some work on the Tiger motor. 

The mini-alternator (mine is a powermaster) bracket is pretty simple to make. I wanted it to be on 2 of the water pump bolts so I made a simple bracket to mount to the 2 top'is bolts of the pump. It is made out of 3/8" 6061-T6 aluminum plate and fits in a 2"x4" section. I have to make one spacer out of 3/4" x 1.125" round bar stock, and likely weld it to the back of the plate so I never have to worry about loosing it.

Also just started a mounting bracket for a Canton-Mecca oil filter. This will mount in a similar way as to the old round one, but likely will have more room since it is a bit smaller. Canton makes a nice (but expensive) billet clamp for the square shaped filter housing. It will be welded to the part that bolts to the head. I need some more work but I have one not so good picture is also up. 

Here is the link to the pictures -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9422868 at N02/sets/72157603069439008/detail/

Hopefully the link doesn't get butchered too badly.

Sandy

From rsdslp at juno.com  Mon Dec 24 10:44:07 2007
From: rsdslp at juno.com (rsdslp at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:44:07 GMT
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
Message-ID: <20071224.094407.18469.0@webmail06.dca.untd.com>

Save your money.
The lack of use will result in a failed battery in the booster/jumper just
when you need it.
Been there, done that.

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free information on attaining an equity line of credit.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3m3ubsAl5f149YAbUpX1HtYlguv
NoaEnPD6IsucckUOWbzyL/

From Rollright at aol.com  Mon Dec 24 10:57:58 2007
From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:57:58 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat on new engine
Message-ID: <c8a.19567a14.34a14d26@aol.com>

Hello,
 
Engine rebuilt !  260 now with LAT 1 cam, manifold F4B and 465  Holley.
 
Any comments on ideal new thermostat degree range/type ?
 
 
 
Jim  Armstrong
MK 1A  382002083
Rollright at aol.com



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From stubrennan at comcast.net  Mon Dec 24 11:13:31 2007
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:13:31 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat on new engine
In-Reply-To: <c8a.19567a14.34a14d26@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000001c84658$b0d19250$6601a8c0@Brennan>

Hi Jim:

Your mods aren't that radical, so why not a standard Ford type 190
degrees F, available at almost any decent auto parts store?  

Stu

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+stubrennan=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Rollright at aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 12:58 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Thermostat on new engine

Hello,
 
Engine rebuilt !  260 now with LAT 1 cam, manifold F4B and 465  Holley.
 
Any comments on ideal new thermostat degree range/type ?
 
 
 
Jim  Armstrong
MK 1A  382002083
Rollright at aol.com



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From e.coiner at cox.net  Mon Dec 24 13:25:19 2007
From: e.coiner at cox.net (e.coiner at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:25:19 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Thermostat on new engine
In-Reply-To: <c8a.19567a14.34a14d26@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20071224152519.5YRTF.5572.root@fed1wml06.mgt.cox.net>

I run a 180 F thermostat in my 260.


---- Rollright at aol.com wrote: 
> Hello,
>  
> Engine rebuilt !  260 now with LAT 1 cam, manifold F4B and 465  Holley.
>  
> Any comments on ideal new thermostat degree range/type ?
>  
>  
>  
> Jim  Armstrong
> MK 1A  382002083
> Rollright at aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as e.coiner at cox.net
> 
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From maliburevue at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 25 15:07:56 2007
From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 14:07:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Toploader overdrive
Message-ID: <561227.48023.qm@web33211.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

  The toploader overdrive transmissions of the 70s were known for their lack of capacity to handle the torque, but with the anemic engines of the late 70s it wasn't necessary. i would shy away from them. The original Tiger/Ford toploaders were bullet proof and could handle the torque of the 427 Cobras just fine and even the heavier Shelbys.
   
My first Tiger had the original close ratio transmission with the standard 2.32 first gear, 3.31 rearend gears and 13" tires. The low rearend gear was nice off the line, but I was burning up my engine on the highway, e.g., 3500 rpms @ 70 mph. During the restoration of my present Tiger, when I had my drivetrain out, I kept the original 2.88 gears and converted my transmission to a wide ratio setup with the 2.78 first gear. This combination of the lower first gear and the taller 2.88s still gave me a 5% better hole shot over my 3.31 close ratio setup, while at the same time decreased my highway rpms by 15%. Plus, I do a lot less shifting around town, while 4th gear is almost exclusively for the highway. Now it's around 3050 rpms @ 70 mph.  With today's gas prices I need all the help I can get, yet still want that grunt when I need it. The added bonus to all this is that when I blew my engine up last winter (that's a whole 'nother story) and removed the drive train, I
 installed a 2.90 first gear from David Kee Toploaders. This ultra low first gear gives me an additional 5% better hole shot than the standard wide ratio and 10% better than the standard close ratio. My transmission's gear ratios now match the first 4 gears of a 5 speed almost exactly. A 5 speed would be nice, but I don't want to cut up the car or pay the ~$3500 for the conversion. The car now has so much mechanical leverage, that I can't even nail the throttle off the line. With the 331 stroker I have to wait until I'm going at least 20 mph or I just fry the tires. This ultra low first gear setup is especially nice, if I ever want to change to a 14" or 15" tire with a larger diameter. With this setup my car has no 'bog' whatsoever off the line, pulls like a mutha' and cruises just fine. I would never go back. It is so nice, I have converted two other friend's Tigers as well.
   
  Gary

       
---------------------------------
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From maliburevue at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 25 23:24:55 2007
From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 22:24:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Toploader overdrive
In-Reply-To: <122620070413.8083.4771D4FD000AC1F800001F9322007507440A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <675249.33126.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Curtis,
   
  Point well made. That's exactly why I kept my 2.88s, instead of going to 3.31s, when I put in my positraction. I knew 3.31s would be way too low for the wide ratio setup, especially with 13" tires. Now I have a 25% larger spread between the gears over the close ratio setup, i.e., 10% better hole shot and 15% better cruise. I've also picked up some 7" wheels, so I can get some more rubber on the road.
   
  Gary
  
65tiger at comcast.net wrote:
  When I converted from the close ratio top 4 speed, 3:31 rear end to a Tremec 5 speed. I found the Tremec 1st gear too low. Way too low. Back before Tremec, with my close ratio, high 1st gear, I blew away anything. Especially those with low first gears. Because of my better power to weight, I could not only hold them off in 1st (actually pulling away), when they shifted to 2nd, they disappeared (in my rear view mirror). Especially Mustangs. You can sacrifice a little clutch and it makes up for the ratio. As has been written in many articles, a very low 1st gear is not much of an advantage. The Tremec 0.63 5th gear was very nice for cruising, the 1st gear was useless for racing so I started from 2nd when it mattered. I ran gumball tires so frying them rarely occurred. 

Curtis
       
---------------------------------
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From alittlemoreink at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 26 12:51:52 2007
From: alittlemoreink at hotmail.com (John Crawley)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:51:52 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Top-loader overdrive
Message-ID: <BAY127-W11142777FCD0AFB6A0EA46DB5B0@phx.gbl>

Hi:
I agree most of the '70s toploader overdrives were weak as they had aluminium
cases. The '79 Granada top-loader overdrive was cast iron and built to take
the same power as the TIGER 4-speed.
I have been running one of these for the past 10 years in my TIGER and have
had no problems. The ratios are not perfect as there is too big of a gap
between 2nd and 3rd which is 1:1 but I have lived with this. The over-drive
fourth came as either 20% or 30% - I have been running the 30% and it is great
on the highway. Installing one of these is not straight forward as they have
the short tailshaft rather than the TIGER's longer one. It can be done though
and if anyone is interested I can supply a how-to or more information on the
gearing. I also have a spare trany and gear sets for not too much.
Godspeed in SAFETY FAST
Jc


_________________________________________________________________
Use fowl language with Chicktionary. Click here to start playing!
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From robin02 at mindspring.com  Wed Dec 26 14:34:14 2007
From: robin02 at mindspring.com (RObin Young)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:34:14 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Top-loader overdrive
In-Reply-To: <BAY127-W11142777FCD0AFB6A0EA46DB5B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY127-W11142777FCD0AFB6A0EA46DB5B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <010a01c84807$105a8d80$6501a8c0@RobinLaptop>

 Hi John, I am looking into installing a SROD toploader in my modified
Tiger.  For a 302 with 11:1 compression, the original first gear is too high
and the fourth is too low.  It seemed to me the overdrive tranny would be
perfect and I have heard from (Theo I think) that you had been using one for
several years. I would be interested in any pointers you might have on the
modification.  Thanks Robin

-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+robin02=mindspring.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+robin02=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
John Crawley
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 2:52 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Top-loader overdrive

Hi:
I agree most of the '70s toploader overdrives were weak as they had
aluminium cases. The '79 Granada top-loader overdrive was cast iron and
built to take the same power as the TIGER 4-speed.
I have been running one of these for the past 10 years in my TIGER and have
had no problems. The ratios are not perfect as there is too big of a gap
between 2nd and 3rd which is 1:1 but I have lived with this. The over-drive
fourth came as either 20% or 30% - I have been running the 30% and it is
great on the highway. Installing one of these is not straight forward as
they have the short tailshaft rather than the TIGER's longer one. It can be
done though and if anyone is interested I can supply a how-to or more
information on the gearing. I also have a spare trany and gear sets for not
too much.
Godspeed in SAFETY FAST
Jc

From 65tiger at comcast.net  Wed Dec 26 16:52:40 2007
From: 65tiger at comcast.net (65tiger at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:52:40 +0000
Subject: [Tigers] Mini-Alternator work
Message-ID: <122620072352.3183.4772E948000D8BCB00000C6F22007340760A040A040A0D070C@comcast.net>

Hi Tony,
I did something similar but mounted the alternator to the driver's side
head (better set back for more room).  I used a March adjustment rod
for the tensioner (not the bolt shown for fitting).  Attached are two photos, 
one with the alternator off to the side and one mounted at the head height.  
I had to go with the later for clearances.  I used the Edelbrock water pump
which worked very well.  
Nice pictures!
Curtis
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
> I did some work on the Tiger motor. 
> 
> The mini-alternator (mine is a powermaster) bracket is pretty simple to make. I 
> wanted it to be on 2 of the water pump bolts so I made a simple bracket to mount 
> to the 2 top'is bolts of the pump. It is made out of 3/8" 6061-T6 aluminum plate 
> and fits in a 2"x4" section. I have to make one spacer out of 3/4" x 1.125" 
> round bar stock, and likely weld it to the back of the plate so I never have to 
> worry about loosing it.
> 
> Also just started a mounting bracket for a Canton-Mecca oil filter. This will 
> mount in a similar way as to the old round one, but likely will have more room 
> since it is a bit smaller. Canton makes a nice (but expensive) billet clamp for 
> the square shaped filter housing. It will be welded to the part that bolts to 
> the head. I need some more work but I have one not so good picture is also up. 
> 
> Here is the link to the pictures -
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/9422868 at N02/sets/72157603069439008/detail/
> 
> Hopefully the link doesn't get butchered too badly.
> 
> Sandy

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Jan 26-05 011.jpg]

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Mar 26-05 015.jpg]

From sganz at pacbell.net  Wed Dec 26 20:16:47 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:16:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Mini-Alternator work
Message-ID: <118496.10217.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Curtis -

Interesting, I never thought of fliping the side to mount the alternator, and looks like late model 5.0 pullies (vs Vbelt) and pickup for EFI i'm guessing. I'm going to mount the oil filter to the head sorta' like the stock tiger one, but with a Canton filter. I'll get pic's this weekend up of that that will work. I figured not much room in the engine bay so might as well keep things where they are at for the time being  

BTW did you have any issues of the balancer being close to the bottom of the Edelbrock water pump? I have to do a bit of clean up as it looks too close for comfort given all the slop in alignment between the pump, housing, and block.

One thing that you can do is get to the heater hoses and bypass easier which was not a concern for me, just wanted it tucked tight infront of the head. 

Good stuff I like seeing others solutions to the problem ;-)

Sandy
www.gtsparkplugs.com

----- Original Message ----
From: "65tiger at comcast.net" <65tiger at comcast.net>
To: sganz at pacbell.net
Cc: tigers at autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 3:52:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Mini-Alternator work

Hi Tony,
I did something similar but mounted the alternator to the driver's side
head (better set back for more room).  I used a March adjustment rod
for the tensioner (not the bolt shown for fitting).  Attached are two photos, 
one with the alternator off to the side and one mounted at the head height.  
I had to go with the later for clearances.  I used the Edelbrock water pump
which worked very well.  
Nice pictures!
Curtis
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
> I did some work on the Tiger motor. 
> 
> The mini-alternator (mine is a powermaster) bracket is pretty simple to make. I 
> wanted it to be on 2 of the water pump bolts so I made a simple bracket to mount 
> to the 2 top'is bolts of the pump. It is made out of 3/8" 6061-T6 aluminum plate 
> and fits in a 2"x4" section. I have to make one spacer out of 3/4" x 1.125" 
> round bar stock, and likely weld it to the back of the plate so I never have to 
> worry about loosing it.
> 
> Also just started a mounting bracket for a Canton-Mecca oil filter. This will 
> mount in a similar way as to the old round one, but likely will have more room 
> since it is a bit smaller. Canton makes a nice (but expensive) billet clamp for 
> the square shaped filter housing. It will be welded to the part that bolts to 
> the head. I need some more work but I have one not so good picture is also up. 
> 
> Here is the link to the pictures -
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/9422868 at N02/sets/72157603069439008/detail/
> 
> Hopefully the link doesn't get butchered too badly.
> 
> Sandy

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Thu Dec 27 11:56:52 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:56:52 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Amazing scale model
Message-ID: <4773F574.2030804@SoCal.rr.com>

Gang,

Take a look at the link. It'll be worth the time.

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/7193/ea6bde9d/index.html


>From my son Jay:

Anyone out there who wants to make a scale Tiger?  That WORKS?
That's 5.3 hours per day, 5 days a week, for 15 years.  In other words, 
it's just shy of a full time job.  Of course, he has a ridiculously 
complete shop worth probably 6 figures, right?  I'm not sure how old he is 
- I've lost all sense of age, mostly in the denial of how old I am 
getting.  But, let's say he started this thing when he was in his 30's - 
late or early.  Either way, who has a career that can allow for this type 
of commitment that early on? 

Steve

-- 
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com

From sganz at pacbell.net  Thu Dec 27 12:58:40 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 11:58:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] Amazing scale model
Message-ID: <223065.37148.qm@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I saw this a while ago and was amazed by how much work the guy must have done to make the functional model and how much time he must have spent fabricating the tiny parts. Then I thought it likely would have been easier to re-create a full sized version...which he could drive at the track.
 
I think the career title your looking for is independently wealthy ;-)
 
Sandy

----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Laifman <SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com>
To: Tiger List <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:56:52 AM
Subject: [Tigers] Amazing scale model

Gang,

Take a look at the link. It'll be worth the time.

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/7193/ea6bde9d/index.html


>From my son Jay:

Anyone out there who wants to make a scale Tiger?  That WORKS?
That's 5.3 hours per day, 5 days a week, for 15 years.  In other words, 
it's just shy of a full time job.  Of course, he has a ridiculously 
complete shop worth probably 6 figures, right?  I'm not sure how old he is 
- I've lost all sense of age, mostly in the denial of how old I am 
getting.  But, let's say he started this thing when he was in his 30's - 
late or early.  Either way, who has a career that can allow for this type 
of commitment that early on? 

Steve

-- 
___
Steve Laifman
Editor - TigersUnited.com
You are subscribed as sganz at pacbell.net

Tigers at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers

http://www.team.net/archive

From musta32188 at msn.com  Thu Dec 27 15:02:22 2007
From: musta32188 at msn.com (PHILLIP SILK)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:02:22 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Amazing scale model
In-Reply-To: <4773F574.2030804@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <4773F574.2030804@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BAY106-W142AF7AE1BF53048F3DDE08B540@phx.gbl>

OK.  That was the coolest scale model of a car I have ever seen.  And I
thought I was addicted to al things automotive...

On the topic, has anyone ever found a quality 1:18 or 1:24 diecast Tiger
model?  They make all kinds of esoteric cars much more rare than Tigers, but I
have never seen a good Tiger.

Phillip
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!

From bob_diehl at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 27 16:48:33 2007
From: bob_diehl at earthlink.net (Bob Diehl)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:48:33 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Vote For Your Favorite
Message-ID: <E1J82Sr-0008B1-Ea@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hey, cast your vote here..... 
http://www.autoshow.ca/cruise/content/standalone.vote.asp

bob_diehl


-- 
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From BEAU2EVE at aol.com  Thu Dec 27 17:26:56 2007
From: BEAU2EVE at aol.com (BEAU2EVE at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:26:56 EST
Subject: [Tigers] replacing dash
Message-ID: <c4e.251177b0.34a59cd0@aol.com>

HI and happy new year to the best list.
   I'm replacing my dash and thought I might as well replace  the thin metal 
trim that is under the dash board. Does anyone have any extra  pieces? I have 
one corner piece, that's it. Is there another solution for a  clean look under 
there? 
 
 
                 Thanks again  Beau
                  9470951



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes 
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From AAAGLASSS at aol.com  Thu Dec 27 20:02:49 2007
From: AAAGLASSS at aol.com (AAAGLASSS at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:02:49 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Subject: Re:  Left rear wheel locked up
Message-ID: <cde.1fb8b7a1.34a5c159@aol.com>

Disconnected e-brake, loosened nuts holding adjuster. Still locked up  
everything loose drum moves but locked to brakes. Got PB blaster and soaked  
adjuster bolt. Made a 1/4 inch square socket by using a 4mm 1/4" socket and  forcing 
on a 9/16 nut then Mig weld nut to socket. Using a 9/16 socket and 3/8  drive 
ratchet backed off adjuster bolt. Drum is off, time for brake rebuild. Any  
suggestion on where to acquire parts for this?
Thanks to all listers for your help. 
What am I going to do without that 4mm socket?
 
 
LEE  B382002560



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From RussE at Firstva.com  Thu Dec 27 20:26:55 2007
From: RussE at Firstva.com (Russ Eshelman)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:26:55 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] replacing dash
References: <c4e.251177b0.34a59cd0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <012f01c84901$8047c040$af8b67d0@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Beau.......seen some on ebay.
Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: <BEAU2EVE at aol.com>
To: <tigers at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:26 PM
Subject: [Tigers] replacing dash


> HI and happy new year to the best list.
>   I'm replacing my dash and thought I might as well replace  the thin metal
> trim that is under the dash board. Does anyone have any extra  pieces? I
have
> one corner piece, that's it. Is there another solution for a  clean look
under
> there?
>
>
>                 Thanks again  Beau
>                  9470951
>
>
>
> **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
> (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as russe at firstva.com
>
> Tigers at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date: 12/27/2007
1:34 PM

From shelbycuda at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 27 22:57:08 2007
From: shelbycuda at hotmail.com (Dan Kuenzi)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:57:08 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper
In-Reply-To: <20071222235719.JTSM14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
References: <20071222235719.JTSM14098.aarprv06.charter.net@aardvark>
Message-ID: <BAY125-W26EEF939D66779000CC338D5550@phx.gbl>

Thank you for the information.  We plan to try a jump starter versus a booster
unit.

Dan



> From: mrlau at charter.net> To: tigers at autox.team.net> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007
17:58:18 -0600> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Battery Booster vs Jumper> > Check this
out as you may like it and its capabilities are explained well> and it was in
the price range you mentioned. - Bill --> > > > > >
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00078WJUO?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER>
<http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00078WJUO?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextag-auto-20&l>
inkCode=asn> &tag=nextag-auto-20&linkCode=asn>
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > You are subscribed as
shelbycuda at hotmail.com> > Tigers at autox.team.net>
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_________________________________________________________________
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From sganz at pacbell.net  Fri Dec 28 01:58:44 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:58:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] More Bracketing work
Message-ID: <251531.84585.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all and happy holidays!

Been busy in the garage, and finished off the Canton Oil Filter bracket as well as a low cost fire extinguisher mount for the Tiger. I added them up on the web site with pictures and part numbers.

www.gtsparkplugs.com Just push the 'Tiger' button to get to the page main tiger page, the new stuff is on the bottom of the page.

Sandy

From sganz at pacbell.net  Fri Dec 28 23:47:43 2007
From: sganz at pacbell.net (Sandy Ganz)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:47:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Tigers] More Bracketing work
Message-ID: <210114.19092.qm@web82814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Frank -

I purchased it from Speedway here is a link to the web page. 

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/609,1214_Small-Block-Ford-Alternator-Brackets.html?itemNo=alternator%20bracket


It is actually Moroso part number 63810 both Jeg's and Summit Racing have it for about 120, Speedway had it for about 90.

I updated the tiger page at www.gtsparkplugs.com with a pic of the parts which was borrowed from Speedway's site and a quick description to make it more permanent.

HTH

Sandy


----- Original Message ----
From: Amberly Chamberlain <amberlychamberlain at sbcglobal.net>
To: Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 9:03:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] More Bracketing work


Sandy,
 
How about some info on the mini alternator brakcet parts.  Where did you get them?
 
Thanks
 
Frank

Sandy Ganz <sganz at pacbell.net> wrote:
Hi all and happy holidays!

Been busy in the garage, and finished off the Canton Oil Filter bracket as well as a low cost fire extinguisher mount for the Tiger. I added them up on the web site with pictures and part numbers.

www.gtsparkplugs.com Just push the 'Tiger' button to get to the page main tiger page, the new stuff is on the bottom of the page.

Sandy
You are subscribed as amberlychamberlain at sbcglobal.net

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From CoolVT at aol.com  Sat Dec 29 08:43:41 2007
From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:43:41 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Brake booster
Message-ID: <cc8.22ef8e0e.34a7c52d@aol.com>

I'm pretty sure it's the Volvo 1800 that used the same brake  booster as the 
Tiger. In searching recently there is a company that sells a  booster to fit 
that Volvo. So, I assume that it will fit the Tiger.  It has  a note that "a 
mounting bracket will have to be fabricated" so it's probably a  little 
different from the original. And it may be the same replacement that  Tiger owners are 
already using. The price is $299. See the link  below.
Mark
 
_http://www.rprusa.com/rprstore/rprstore.htm_ 
(http://www.rprusa.com/rprstore/rprstore.htm) 



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From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sat Dec 29 10:58:22 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:58:22 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Refurb Questions
Message-ID: <47768ABE.50904@mayfco.com>

Ok, I have embarked on a long overdue refurbishment of my Tiger, 
B9471136. I am getting paint estimates as I write and no, it wont be a 
stock color. It will be a shimmering pearlsescent metalic in orange,  
one white coat, 3 color , two.  Maybe.  But I am doing all the removals 
for paint prep myself (big deal, lol).  There was a thread some time ago 
about a company which had all the Tiger nuts and bolts available as a 
package. I think they were stainless steel. Anybody remember the source 
for those items? Next is the trunk pull handle. Mine seems to be pretty 
pitted. Who is the best source for one that can be used as is or is good 
enough for rechroming? Any help there? Also there was a thread about the 
side chrome strip doo hickeys that hold the strip inplace. Seems like 
that was a nylon screw or some such. Anybody remember what would be good 
to use there? Oh and I need the driver's door chrome strip as well. When 
the idiot who did some repair in 1972 he did not have the correct little 
doo hickeys so he put in a tiny pop rivit through the strip right on the 
end.  So I would like to replace that piece as well. Hmmm. what 
else...Oh, The rag top I put on a million years ago was the later velcro 
style but now I would like top return to the original style with the 
tension cabl;e. Only trouble is I have lost the springs, cables, and 
probably some of the other parts as well. Who is the best source for 
used parts? Curt? Traction bar bushings?  Oh and I am going to return to 
the 2.88 gears but with a posi I have had laying around since dirt was 
made.  Not as good as a OD gear but ok. And maybe my old race motor will 
come to life again, lol...

How about the rubber or soft goods parts.  I am a CAT member (since 
1974) so I can get some of them  there, but are there alternate sources?

guess that'll do for now...

mayf, anxiously awaiting some source information...

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Sat Dec 29 12:20:34 2007
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:20:34 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] brake booster
Message-ID: <OF00E1CF76.AE508203-ON882573C0.006A4120@countrywide.com>

I did some reseach awhile back.  I even wrote Girling and got a letter back
which was signed by two people.  They gave me the model number for the car.
What I learned was that they say the correct booster gave a ratio of 3:1
and could be found at Jaguar suppliers.  The one SS had had a 2.3:1 boost.
The one VB had had a 1.9:1 boost.

I had actually already bought the VB one by then because it was less
expensive than the SS one and came with a mounting bracket kit.  Well, the
kit was useless and I think the boost ratio is too low.

I now run the .70 MC and don't need a booster.  I had to to fit the side
draft Webers (on my Alpine).

I have a long list of the cars that had the booster.  But, it's at work.  I
can supply it later.

Jay

Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:43:41 EST
From: CoolVT at aol.com
Subject: [Tigers] Brake booster
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Message-ID: <cc8.22ef8e0e.34a7c52d at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm pretty sure it's the Volvo 1800 that used the same brake  booster as
the
Tiger. In searching recently there is a company that sells a  booster to
fit
that Volvo. So, I assume that it will fit the Tiger.  It has  a note that
"a
mounting bracket will have to be fabricated" so it's probably a  little
different from the original. And it may be the same replacement that  Tiger
owners are
already using. The price is $299. See the link  below.
Mark

_http://www.rprusa.com/rprstore/rprstore.htm_
(http://www.rprusa.com/rprstore/rprstore.htm)




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From WSuman at aol.com  Sat Dec 29 14:12:21 2007
From: WSuman at aol.com (WSuman at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:12:21 EST
Subject: [Tigers] Stainless Bolt Assortment
Message-ID: <c26.261befcb.34a81235@aol.com>

Dr.;
Try Totally Stainless _http://www.totallystainless.com/_ 
(http://www.totallystainless.com/) .   Tiger assortment is PN 6-9900.
 
Walt Suman
Seattle
 
 

From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: [Tigers] Refurb  Questions
There was a thread some time ago about a company which had all the  Tiger 
nuts and bolts available as a 
package. I think they were stainless  steel. Anybody remember the source for 
those items? 




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From jim at island.net  Sat Dec 29 15:42:53 2007
From: jim at island.net (Jim)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:42:53 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Stainless Bolt Assortment
In-Reply-To: <c26.261befcb.34a81235@aol.com>
Message-ID: <090f01c84a6c$267a45d0$0300a8c0@GatewayAMD3500>

I bought the kit from 'Totally Stainless' a couple of years ago and have
been very happy with it. I think the price is around $100 now. It's not
actually in the catalogue but the part# is still valid. Everything comes
separated in plastic along with an itemized list which can also be found
here it the original tech tip about it on the Tigers United site...

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/KJensenBolts/rt-KJensenBolts1.asp

Jim
B382000446



-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+jim=island.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
WSuman at aol.com
Sent: December 29, 2007 1:12 PM
To: tigers at autox.team.net
Subject: [Tigers] Stainless Bolt Assortment

Dr.;
Try Totally Stainless _http://www.totallystainless.com/_ 
(http://www.totallystainless.com/) .   Tiger assortment is PN 6-9900.
 
Walt Suman
Seattle
 
 

From: drmayf <drmayf at mayfco.com>
Subject: [Tigers] Refurb  Questions
There was a thread some time ago about a company which had all the  Tiger 
nuts and bolts available as a 
package. I think they were stainless  steel. Anybody remember the source for

those items? 




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From gharlowe at comcast.net  Sat Dec 29 16:48:42 2007
From: gharlowe at comcast.net (gharlowe at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:48:42 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Hard Top Corner Seals
Message-ID: <001e01c84a75$5a169e80$020010ac@gharlowe9h3kpn>

Listers -



I'm replacing the seals on a recently-acquired hard top that was in rough
shape.  I haven't owned a hard top before and there was nothing left of the
original weather stripping to see how things work.  The top has
brazed/welded weather strip channels on both sides and rear.  The corners
also had short diagonal weather strip channels that were riveted in place
instead of brazed - I can't tell if these are supposed to be there or not.
It appeared as if a single piece of weather strip would wrap around the
perimeter of the top/body seal.  What was left of the corner pads were
small, brittle fragments, fastened with two sheet metal screws through small
triangular sheet metal plates.



I ordered a one-piece weather strip and two corner seals from Rick.  In
trying to wrap the one-piece seal through all the weather strip channels,
it's hard to believe it's supposed to stay in a single continuous piece -
lots of buckling and distortion in the corners and darn hard to work the
stiff seal into the channels.  Also, the corner pads are bigger than I
expected and don't seem compatible with having weather strip in the corners.
The screw holes for the corner pads aren't aligned with the holes from the
"original" triangular mount plate.  In fact, the new corner pads have
mounting holes that would put screws through the weather strip in the corner
channels, assuming they're supposed to be there.



Is the weather strip supposed to wrap continuously, and are the corner
channels supposed to be there?  Are the new-type corner pads mounted using
the old triangular plates?   Do the corner pads overlap with or butt against
the surrounding weather strip?



Thanks in advance for your help...



Cheers,



Graham Harlowe

B382001466

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sat Dec 29 17:33:22 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:33:22 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Hard Top Corner Seals
In-Reply-To: <001e01c84a75$5a169e80$020010ac@gharlowe9h3kpn>
References: <001e01c84a75$5a169e80$020010ac@gharlowe9h3kpn>
Message-ID: <4776E752.8010009@SoCal.rr.com>

Graham,

Tiger tops varied with model. The MK II model I purchased had "[" shaped channels riveted to the top.  There was one across the back, two angled towards the side window, and one beneath the side window.  The Mk I hard top had three stiff rubber pieces fitting across the back, and on each side.  As the top flexed, ever so slightly, the rubber wears holes through the paint from movement scrubbing.

At the time, Sunbeam Specialties had the Mk II type one piece foam cored rubber.  Just placing the "lips" inside the channels would allow a firm fit. It fits all the way around, and NON of the earlier design pieces of rubber should be used. The top and foam would move, relative to the body and NOT rub the paint, as the foam flexed. No adhesives required in the "[" channels.

For Belt and Suspenders, I used three pieces of "racing number, plastic cut to fit the top interface.  Could be peeled off, if necessary, and replaced with new, If wear was objectionable.  Turns a bit yellow after a few decades.

Great solution.

Steve Laifman
Editor, http://www.tigersunited.com/



gharlowe at comcast.net wrote:
> <----- snip ---->
>
>
> Is the weather strip supposed to wrap continuously, and are the corner
> channels supposed to be there?  Are the new-type corner pads mounted using
> the old triangular plates?   Do the corner pads overlap with or butt against
> the surrounding weather strip?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your help...
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Graham Harlowe
>
> B382001466

From stubrennan at comcast.net  Sat Dec 29 20:12:44 2007
From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:12:44 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] Hard Top Corner Seals
In-Reply-To: <4776E752.8010009@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <000001c84a91$d9b2b4a0$6601a8c0@Brennan>

I've been using flexible magnetic sign material to protect the body from
the hardtop footprint.  I found sheets of the stuff, 1' x 2', for a few
bucks at craft stores.  I cut out 4 pieces that surround the cockpit and
reach just under the lip of the top gaskets.  

I was going to do a production run of these to sell, but there are a few
problems with the material.  The vinyl backing that was on it was
delaminating after the first year.  When cold, even in the 40's, when
you would be using the hard top, the material is quite stiff, and
doesn't conform to the body well when applied.

So I just kept the proto set I made, and touch them up once in a while.

Stu

From Rollright at aol.com  Sun Dec 30 08:58:11 2007
From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:58:11 EST
Subject: [Tigers] electronic ignition
Message-ID: <d1e.169f6243.34a91a13@aol.com>

Happy New Year,
 
About two months ago, (too long for my history folder) I asked about  
Pertronix electronic ignition systems.
 
Someone suggested an alternative with a rev limiter built in that they had  
good luck with.
 
Can someone steer me in the right direction with that name again  please?
 
 
 
Jim  Armstrong
MK 1A  382002083
Rollright at aol.com



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From rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com  Sun Dec 30 09:39:21 2007
From: rpalmerbob at roadrunner.com (Robert Palmer)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 08:39:21 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] electronic ignition
In-Reply-To: <d1e.169f6243.34a91a13@aol.com>
References: <d1e.169f6243.34a91a13@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000001c84b02$87ec7ea0$6a01a8c0@tarbaby>

Could this be the one?

Jim,

May I suggest the Crane XR-I electronic conversion kit (JEGS,SUMMIT)'s about
$65.00. The great thing about it is it has a built in rev limiter that you
can adjust from 4000 to 8000RPM. Good way to save your engine. JEGS part
number 270-750-1700. Check it out.

Jerry Christopherson
9473187
TAC682 


-----Original Message-----
From: tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:tigers-bounces+rpalmerbob=roadrunner.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Rollright at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:58 AM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Tigers] electronic ignition

Happy New Year,
 
About two months ago, (too long for my history folder) I asked about  
Pertronix electronic ignition systems.
 
Someone suggested an alternative with a rev limiter built in that they had  
good luck with.
 
Can someone steer me in the right direction with that name again  please?
 
 
 
Jim  Armstrong
MK 1A  382002083
Rollright at aol.com

From tcprager at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 30 09:49:41 2007
From: tcprager at hotmail.com (Thomas Prager)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:49:41 -0600
Subject: [Tigers] Crane XR-I electronic conversion kit
Message-ID: <BAY142-DAV1732E51CBD0F59F38D3998CB570@phx.gbl>

I had two of these units and neither one lasted more than a few thousand
miles. The electrical system would sputter and sometimes just shut down at
high RPMs, (5,000, although rev limiter was set for 6,000). After a 1/2 hour
cooling off period I could drive again. I ultimately bought the Pertronix
distributor and no problems since.

tom

From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Sun Dec 30 13:02:36 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:02:36 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] More Models That Run!
Message-ID: <4777F95C.1020809@SoCal.rr.com>

On the subject of models, my son Jay sent me this link:

http://www.allegretticars.com/UK_home.htm

He says "Well, I guess if you're going to make a miniature, at least 
make it one that can be driven (if you are young enough).

Jay
_______________________________________


Steve Laifman
http://www.tigersunited.com <http://www.tigersunited.com/default.asp>

From chris at cthompson.net  Sun Dec 30 14:38:41 2007
From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:38:41 -0500
Subject: [Tigers] More Models That Run!
In-Reply-To: <4777F95C.1020809@SoCal.rr.com>
References: <4777F95C.1020809@SoCal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <47780FE1.8080505@cthompson.net>

I saw one of his Ferrari's in a shop in Venice 4 or 5 years ago.  It was 
there primarily to attract attention, I'm sure.  I wish I could remember 
the price - seems to me it was in the $75,000US range.

They are a curiosity, alright.

Chris

Steve Laifman wrote:
> On the subject of models, my son Jay sent me this link:
>
> http://www.allegretticars.com/UK_home.htm
>
> He says "Well, I guess if you're going to make a miniature, at least 
> make it one that can be driven (if you are young enough).
>
> Jay

From srekate at pacifier.com  Sun Dec 30 15:33:19 2007
From: srekate at pacifier.com (Scott Rekate)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:33:19 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Refurb Questions
Message-ID: <5BD64B9E-781D-4A0B-8CA5-98F0C5816F0C@pacifier.com>

.....................There was a thread some time ago about a company  
which had all the Tiger nuts and bolts available as a package.    
mayf, anxiously awaiting some source information...

Mayf, I managed to file that website in my browser as http:// 
www.mmsacc-stainless.com/html/Misc_Body.htm .  That's MMS &  
Accessories,Inc., 800-441-9451, in Rydal, GA.
Haven't personally tried them out but looks as thought they carry  
what one needs for a resto.

As far as rubber materials CAT is a good bet but I also find Sunbeam  
Specialties to carry quality goods.

Scott Rekate

From drmayf at mayfco.com  Sun Dec 30 15:42:21 2007
From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:42:21 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] More Parts..
Message-ID: <47781ECD.8060001@mayfco.com>

Ok, thanks to everybody who respnded with parts sources.  Now I am 
looking, maybe, a drivers door for my Mk I. Withing driving distance 
from the Las Vegas area...LA, San Diego, up to Pismo Beach or San Luis 
Obispo... or points in between. I have to be traveling to Pismo later in 
January (late Jan) in any case.

Anybody have something that is not a rusted hulk of a door?  Should be a 
complete door assy as removed from a car at the hinges, in fact the 
hinges would be good to have also.

Anybody? SHoot me a PM with a pix if you have one and a $$$ amount, eh?



mayf

From sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net  Sun Dec 30 18:50:31 2007
From: sosnaenergyconsulting at cox.net (David Sosna)
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:50:31 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] More Parts..
In-Reply-To: <47781ECD.8060001@mayfco.com>
References: <47781ECD.8060001@mayfco.com>
Message-ID: <47784AE7.5090400@cox.net>

Mayf:
Check with Smitty in San Diego.  He'll probably ship it, though you 
might prefer to pick it up in person, so you can look around for 
whatever else you might need.
Any parts you're missing, he might have.
(619) 233-7937.
No answering machine, let it ring at least 10 times before giving up.
Best Regards
David Sosna

drmayf wrote:
> Ok, thanks to everybody who respnded with parts sources.  Now I am 
> looking, maybe, a drivers door for my Mk I. Withing driving distance 
> from the Las Vegas area...LA, San Diego, up to Pismo Beach or San Luis 
> Obispo... or points in between. I have to be traveling to Pismo later in 
> January (late Jan) in any case.
>
> Anybody have something that is not a rusted hulk of a door?  Should be a 
> complete door assy as removed from a car at the hinges, in fact the 
> hinges would be good to have also.
>
>
> _______________________________________________

From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com  Mon Dec 31 11:27:49 2007
From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:27:49 -0800
Subject: [Tigers]  Hard Top Corner Seals
Message-ID: <OF63FFE76C.32838DB1-ON882573C2.006518B3-882573C2.00656CC1@countrywide.com>

As my dad indicated, there were different styles for different years. That 
includes those corner rubber pieces.  Personally I could never get that 
corner piece to fit mine well.  I even thinned it out in places.  Yet, my 
dad's fits perfectly.  Then again, I've only had my hard top on twice in 
the last 10 years.  It just sits in the garage, wrapped in a sheet, fully 
restored.

Oh, also never got those triangle pieces to fit in the rear quarter 
windows right. 

There really needs to be a book on how to restore that top.

======================================================================

Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law.  If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession.

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From SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com  Mon Dec 31 12:54:21 2007
From: SLaifman at SoCal.rr.com (Steve Laifman)
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:54:21 -0800
Subject: [Tigers] Refurb Questions
In-Reply-To: <5BD64B9E-781D-4A0B-8CA5-98F0C5816F0C@pacifier.com>
References: <5BD64B9E-781D-4A0B-8CA5-98F0C5816F0C@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <477948ED.8050106@SoCal.rr.com>

Scott, and Tigers,

A very useful list was prepared by Kirt Jennsen, in April, 2002, and can 
be found on TigersUnited.com:

http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/KJensenBolts/rt-KJensenBolts1.asp

It includes sources, links, and prices, at that time, for kits.

Steve Laifman
TigersUnited.com <http://TigersUnited.com>


Scott Rekate wrote:
> .....................There was a thread some time ago about a company  
> which had all the Tiger nuts and bolts available as a package.    
> mayf, anxiously awaiting some source information...
>
> Mayf, I managed to file that website in my browser as http:// 
> www.mmsacc-stainless.com/html/Misc_Body.htm .  That's MMS &  
> Accessories,Inc., 800-441-9451, in Rydal, GA.
> Haven't personally tried them out but looks as thought they carry  
> what one needs for a resto.
>
> As far as rubber materials CAT is a good bet but I also find Sunbeam  
> Specialties to carry quality goods.
>
> Scott Rekate
> _______________________________________________
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