From Drmoonstone at aol.com Wed Aug 1 13:03:35 2007 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:03:35 EDT Subject: [Tigers] New owner, Lots of Questions Message-ID: Congratulations, now hold on for the all consuming "ride." Dr Moonstone ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Drmoonstone at aol.com Wed Aug 1 13:05:38 2007 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:05:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] oil filter adapter Message-ID: Sanderson Headers still has the pattern for Tiger headers and might be prevailed upon to make a run if enough people would be interested. Dr Moonstone ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From macdonald49 at shaw.ca Wed Aug 1 14:39:12 2007 From: macdonald49 at shaw.ca (Peter MacDonald) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 13:39:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Bellanger headers Message-ID: Does anyone know if the original style with the side-outs for stock exhaust are still available? My newly installed coated set(used-a few hours dyno time only) got crushed in a few places on the drivers side when my car was hit. Had the rest of the exhaust redone the day before to fit with these and would like to replace with same. Any info appreciated. Peter From bamcnulty at optonline.net Wed Aug 1 17:24:44 2007 From: bamcnulty at optonline.net (Tony McNulty) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:24:44 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] engine options Message-ID: <46B1163C.5010508@optonline.net> Listers: I've finally started (after only 18 years on blocks) a "personalized restoration" of my (original 'cept for the BWA wheels) 1966 Tiger (B382001321). Pictures of what the car looked like on rollout and after a "sort of" cleanup can be found where my son posted them at : http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3303093 . That was around a month ago, and at this moment, the car's completely stripped of everything except the front and rear ends, engine, and tranny, and we're ready to drop the latter two and are looking for the best paint-and-body resto shops in southwestern CT to get some quotes for the first step -- blasting and painting. That's Phase I. I'm trying to plan ahead for Phase II and have sort of zeroed in on a Ford Motorsport 302 with GT-40 heads (etc.), which can be found at: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=3791 The Burning Tiger Question is -- are there any header issues (like port placement) with the GT-40 heads and should I perhaps be looking for a different engine-head setup so that headers and starter motors and oil filters tend to fit better? (guess there are several header choices as well...) I don't want to do anything to the car that cannot be undone by unbolting, if possible (except for frame stiffening, x-member exhaust cutout and a welded-in rollbar). I'll overhaul and retain all of the original parts for the car so that a possible future owner can get back to an original car, if that's wanted. I don't intend to race the car, but want something that's at least street competitive with some of the critters on the road today -- just like the original Tiger was in 1966. Any and all suggestions and help would be appreciated. I can put up a web site or perhaps a photo site if anyone's interested in following the progress. Thanks, Tony McNulty Weston, CT From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 1 20:08:01 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:08:01 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] engine options Message-ID: <20070802020942.ZAKI1254.aa04.charter.net@aardvark> If you have to have the best out there, I think that buying one of Fords engines is the best way to go. The blocks are new which means that the bore should be in line with the crank. Any rebuild winds up with the bore slightly off center or out of line with the crank. How much off center can be argued but I have great confidence in the new Ford blocks being right and a rebore not being as good. I also feel that there is nothing like a new crank. Their journals never have a sharp edge and often reground cranks do. If they were done right they wouldn't but it is common. This brings up the possibility of a broken crank if you treat it rough because these engines have cast cranks. This said all of this is only important if you are going to get on your loud peddle often and hard. Tigers have little tires and too much horse power can't be used completely anyway except at much higher speeds. If you feel that this is a reason,go for the big horsepower engine A person has to figure though, just how many miles he will put on a car after it is restored and exactly how many times he will "race" it on the street and how many RPM will you typically take it to. If you find a reputable engine builder so your bore is as good as it can be done and your crank is right and you pick out sensible parts with heads and cam not so big that you have no low RPM torque I think you will be happy. I had a 289 in a 65 mustang with a crane torquer cam, 030 over, stock heads but gasket match ported, 10-1 forged pistons, and a 600 double pumper. I drove it about 50,000 miles and came upon a stock 87 mustang engine with the new at the time roller cam set up and very few miles. The other engine was fine but I wanted to try it and use the serpentine belt system which had an air conditioner pump on it that worked. I put it in with the same double pumper and I was shocked at how much less power it had. It ran great and the very low end torque was OK but it died at 4800 RPM. I never did change it back and gave the car to my son and it still has the same engine in it. My son is satisfied with the power so doesn't want to go through the trouble to change it. My point is that the old engines can do real well and possibly a lot of the "new" engines that claim all kinds of HP won't be that streetable. If you don't care about power at 70mph and up, keep your engine simple, and that means a whole lot cheaper. Spend the extra money on a 5 speed and some gears. That will make your Tiger faster than more HP. -- Bill -- _ From kneedrag at core.com Wed Aug 1 21:07:33 2007 From: kneedrag at core.com (Mark Rense) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:07:33 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Next Dyno Day - new bolt on Horsepower adder for In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim, this looks promising. When dyno testing my car last, I picked up 18 HP and a secondary jet size by simply removing the K%N-equipped stock AC air filter assembly. The stock filter design is very restrictive for over 200 HP applications. Keep us informed. Bugz --------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:38:44 -0400 From: "Ronak, TP \(Timothy\)" Subject: [Tigers] Next Dyno Day - new bolt on Horsepower adder for stock Tiger aircleaner assemblies To: Cc: tigcat2 at juno.com Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF070D0218 at norn32.d30.intra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Guys, I have a real itch'in to try a new product that was patented by Professional Products. I just had 2 sent to me for trial on cars at the next dyno day which I believe will be in the September-October time frame, one is for no choke horn and the other is for Holley carbs with a stock chock horn assembly. The new product is called an "Airflo" and may improve the rather horrendous airflow within the stock Tiger air cleaner assembly by helping air navigate the rather sharp turn into the carb. The guys at Professional Products have had some rather great feedback and they claim to have personally had GREAT success in finding HP with these items. They sent me 2 free to try at our next So Cal Dyno Day so guys I will be packin' and lets see of we can get another 10HP out of a car with no other changes.. Here is the web link to the product. http://www.professional-products.com/airflo.html I have not tried this yet myself but have a strong desire to see if we can attain any benefit. I do recall picking up a verified 8HP with a K&N stub stack inside a stock holley carb back in the early 1990's Whoever it is that sets up the dyno day at Superior Automotive can you be sure to give me some notice so I can arrange to be there with my Tiger and my Wife's 331 powered '91 Mustang. Typically, I find out too late to arrange my schedule so I would like to help plan this event if I can. Typically we do a Spring and Fall Dyno day so I was wondering if we could. I will also build a jig to "de-flatten" the factory air filter and gain a little clearance that way. I have done this to mine and as I recall gained about half an inch in height. I am VERY careful but you might not want to watch me do it :-). Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings 23961 Via El Rocio Mission Viejo, CA 92691 Bus: 949-305-5393 Fax: 425-955-6268 Cell: 949-289-3357 email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal email: timronak at cox.net From Carmods at aol.com Thu Aug 2 06:56:48 2007 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:56:48 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Ford Crate Engine Installation Message-ID: Tony The Ford Motorsport 302 with GT-40 heads is a great choice. There are no header issues. The ports are in the same location as the 260. You should ; * replace the front serpentine accessory drive with the "V" drive. This will require a earlier 289/302 front cover drilled for the dip stick. * Use a later 302 balancer that is machined back to allow the proper location of the stock 260 crankshaft pulley. * Buy a good high flow water pump, like the Edelbrock with the drive flange pushed back about 7/16 inches and the shaft shortened for radiator clearance. * Plug the side dipstick hole and the EGR ports in the heads. There is a kit for the ports. * You will need a 6 bolt flywheel housing and a good clutch. There are lots of options available. Installing a good wide ratio T-5 five speed at this time is a great addition but that is another whole subject. John Logan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Thu Aug 2 12:45:49 2007 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:45:49 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Crate motor Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF070F9CFA@norn32.d30.intra> Tony, While I like the ford stuff for the money you will spend the aftermarket has REALLY improved the Game. I just purchased a 331 hydraulic roller short block with aftermarket forged rods and full floating pistons from a company called M&R Engines in Glendale CA. They just started this web based program and the engine I got for my wife's 1991 mustang is VERY nice. Before you go shell out dough to Ford you might want to try calling Danny and see what they can do for you. I did assemble my engine myself but they have a beautiful clean shop and the owners do all of the assembly themselves. I did have a hiccup with the block they used and they corrected it and some with absolutely no questions, hassle or grief. Everyone has troubles and my experience has told me how problems are handled is the true mark of a service organization and these guys really care about the customer. I also have a 349 in my Tiger and the piston slap just pisses me off when it is cold. It runs great and does not use oil but were I to do it again ... I would probably do the 331. I would go with the 331 and the Edelbrock heads with a TFS stage 2 Cam. My 349 made 360HP+ to the wheels and a 331 would likely be in the 340HP range at the wheels depending on induction and carb. If you are interested Talk to Danny and tell him Tin Ronak suggested you call to see what they can do for you. They will ship anywhere. M&R Engines 818-500-4990 http://www.mandrengines.com/ Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings 23961 Via El Rocio Mission Viejo, CA 92691 Bus: 949-305-5393 Fax: 425-955-6268 Cell: 949-289-3357 email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal email: timronak at cox.net From modtiger at comcast.net Thu Aug 2 13:18:21 2007 From: modtiger at comcast.net (Tom Hall) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:18:21 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Ford Crate Engine Installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070802191838.A678B187AAB@autox.team.net> A little refinement on John's comments: >The Ford Motorsport 302 with GT-40 heads is a great choice. There are no >header issues. The ports are in the same location as the 260. The bolt locations are the same but the GT-40 ports are a lot different than the early engines. Cat headers are matched to the FelPro 1415 header gasket and will require some "dressing" to fit the GT-40 ports. All do-able, but important if you want the best performance. Other headers are likely to have similar fitment situations > >You should ; > * replace the front serpentine accessory drive with the "V" > drive. This >will require a earlier 289/302 front cover drilled for the dip stick. The Motorsport engines are now being delivered with a front cover that is useable in a Tiger. It has the dipstick hole for the front sump (requires a replacement pan and pickup) and you can remove as much of the extraneous crank trigger/timing casting as you like. It accepts the Edelbrock pump and has an external front seal. You need to find TDC and make a pointer system to time the engine. > * Use a later 302 balancer that is machined back to allow the proper >location of the stock 260 crankshaft pulley. There are several aftermarket mfg of 3 bolt 50 oz balancers to allow the use of the Tiger pulley. Double check the pulley fit on the damper as I've gotten mis-machined one before. > * Buy a good high flow water pump, like the Edelbrock with the drive >flange pushed back about 7/16 inches and the shaft shortened for radiator >clearance. Don't forget the 1" OD ring to center the pump pulley. Do not depend on the centering provided by the 4 bolts. The Edelbrock pump has a stepped shaft when you push the flange back. Remember to remove the back of the pump and back up the center shaft before pushing it back in a press. > > * Plug the side dipstick hole and the EGR ports in the heads. There is >a kit for the ports. > * You will need a 6 bolt flywheel housing and a good clutch. There are >lots of options available. >Installing a good wide ratio T-5 five speed at this time is a great addition >but that is another whole subject. > >John Logan You will also need a steel gear on your distributor to match the 302 roller cam material. Using the cast iron gear could be an expensive mistake. Tom Hall tigerengineering.net From rootes1 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 2 15:00:45 2007 From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:00:45 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] 3RD-RUN LAT SPINNER SURVEY Message-ID: Some of you will remember we talked about this before, but that was some time back and the list has changed totally since the early days. What I'm after is a feel for how many small-hub LAT 70 owners are missing, or are in need of matching spinners. If the numbers work out - there might be hope. ncm -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/931 - Release Date: 8/1/2007 4:53 PM From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Aug 2 17:04:54 2007 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 16:04:54 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] August Bonneville Meet Message-ID: <46B26316.70201@mayfco.com> Well, it is getting very close to time to go. I will finish loading the trailer this weekend and head to the salt on the 9th. We will be staying at the Motel 6, room 209. Now having said that, there is a real danger that the meet will be cancelled. Right now the salt is flooded from all the rain in the area. Some of the old timers think it will evaporate if no more rain falls..but that was yesterday and more did fall today. So, if you were planning on going to watch and this would be a good meet for that with more than 500 cars and bikes I suggest you surf onto http://www.scta-bmi.org for the latest conditions. I will also post a note if it is a go or not. Right now, the car is a s good as it is gonna get this year. No extra tuning but massive changes to the air induction system. Ditto for the cooling system. With all of the changes, I decided I would just run last years tunes as a base line and see what the data logs show. I now have a manifold pressure sensor as well so that is new. The changes to the cooling system were to put the radiator into a 13 gallon water tank and plumb in a pump and another 10 gallons of water for cooling. Remember a run only takes 2 minutes at the speeds I run. So this should be good... If there is any interest I can supply the spreadsheet I used to size the cooling system, just ask. As far as I know, National Geographic is not coming around for round 2, lol. Oh, there will be 2 hydrogen powered vehicles there. One is a FOrd Fusion set up to run fuel cells and the Buckeye Bullet from Ohio State U with mainly Ford fuel cell system both will be there. I usnderstand other special cars will be there as well. The August meet is always special for the number of cars that are there and every pit will just about welcome you with open arms. If they are thrashing to get the vehicle going might just be better to stand back and watch however. I will be there in the big red Spirit of Sunbeam logo'd trailer, so I will be easy to find. Hope to see al lof you there! (if it goes,....) mayf From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Fri Aug 3 10:32:23 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 10:32:23 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Retrotek BossEFI Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108B69@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> So I decided that I should cut to the chase and get one of the Retrotek systems for my neverending engine swap and driveline restification project. In talking to the guy he indicated he'd had an order from another Tiger owner. Was it someone from the list? Best regards, Theo From tigerlat70 at comcast.net Fri Aug 3 21:19:06 2007 From: tigerlat70 at comcast.net (Steve Coleman) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 20:19:06 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Casting plastic parts on DIY Network Message-ID: <007e01c7d646$3777c780$46cac647@stevesdell> I was watching DIY Friday night and this guy is restoring a 38 Packard, he showed how to cast a tail light, it looked like the original, here is the company kit http://www.alumilite.com/ And here is the TV steps to making them, maybe something useful for you for other material. http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ab_auto_restoration/article/0,2021,DIY_13680_3 494404,00.html Take Care, Steve Coleman Your Loan and Real Estate Consultant Unifund Financial Group 1393 Lexington Dr Ste. 4 San Jose, CA 95117 Cell 408-603-3711 Fax 408-866-1039 Email tigerlat70 at comcast.net Web Site www.stevesloansandhomes.net From pirouette at charter.net Sat Aug 4 13:23:11 2007 From: pirouette at charter.net (pirouette at charter.net) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 12:23:11 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] posi Message-ID: <1931931155.1186255391643.JavaMail.root@fepweb06> Hey, I am going to put a posi in my currently stock rear end. I'll have a T-5 with 2.95 1st and .8 overdrive. I have a 3.07 sitting on the shelf besides the 2.88 that's in the car. I'm inclined to use the 2.88, but vaguely remember a problem mentioned here and elsewhere about the mounting bolts not working with the posi. I searched TU site and couldn't find the reference. Could someone refresh my memory. What do I need to do to make this work. Seems like I remember the 3.07 not having this problem. Anyone in favor of the final ratios I'd end up with using that? Thanks!! Chris Hill From milano164 at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 15:01:57 2007 From: milano164 at comcast.net (Steven silverstein) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:01:57 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Anybody in the Boston area need a right exhaust system? Message-ID: <20475B16-0E9D-4D28-8CC1-9BFE7088D7DD@comcast.net> The MkII that I recently bought came with extra exhaust systems.... brand new possibly NOS. Anyway... there are 5 of them... all for the right side... This is like having dinning room tables without chairs. Can't figure out what happened to the left sides... If you need one let me know.... these are about 7-8 feet long.... so shipping isn't practical. Also, I have one of the old CAT "blue streak" exhaust systems that appears to be complete. I will give somebody a really good deal on that. Steve Silverstein 508-303-3391 Marlboro, MA From mrlau at charter.net Sat Aug 4 16:07:02 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:07:02 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] posi Message-ID: <20070804220845.DZJP1254.aa04.charter.net@aardvark> I have a 2.88 posi in my MKII so it should fit. If your engine has a radical cam large valves and ports in the heads, go with the 3.07 but if it is close to stock or you expect it to be a bit "torquey", go with the 2.88. Remember that the tires are a lot smaller in diameter on Tigers than on others. If you compare a 25 inch tire at 2.88 to a 27 on a different car your gear ratio will have to be a 3.10 to have the same RPM at the same speed. However I think that stock MKII's have a 2.95 first if I remember correctly and it wouldn't hurt to be a little lower so I would be inclined to go with the 3.07 A 2.88 with .8 overdrive is a final drive of 2.30 and 3.07 is 2.45. Those are both pretty high if your engine needs higher RPM to run right.-- Bill -- Hey, I am going to put a posi in my currently stock rear end. I'll have a T-5 with 2.95 1st and .8 overdrive. I have a 3.07 sitting on the shelf besides the 2.88 that's in the car. I'm inclined to use the 2.88, but vaguely remember a problem mentioned here and elsewhere about the mounting bolts not working with the posi. I searched TU site and couldn't find the reference. Could someone refresh my memory. What do I need to do to make this work. Seems like I remember the 3.07 not having this problem. Anyone in favor of the final ratios I'd end up with using that? Thanks!! Chris Hill From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Sat Aug 4 18:35:13 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 19:35:13 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] posi In-Reply-To: <1931931155.1186255391643.JavaMail.root@fepweb06> References: <1931931155.1186255391643.JavaMail.root@fepweb06> Message-ID: <39a841b0708041735v6805d92cj6f2cb9d36f6053c2@mail.gmail.com> you'll probably have to drill the holes on the posi to use the original bolts. i've been thinking about putting in a 2.95 T5 this winter but lately i've been giving it second thoughts. i have the 2.88 rear and close ratio top loader but i can still easily spin the wheels from a standing start and often accidentally spin them as i let the clutch out shifting from 1st to 2nd (and i have 225/45 16 tires). i would certainly like a long 5th gear so i may well end up doing it anyway. the problem then is that the standard new ford motorsport box has a 0.63 5th (or something like that) which is too long for 2.88 so i'd have to go 3.07 which would make the 2.95 first very short indeed. i intend to give it a fair bit more though but i'd love to find someone with a T5 in their tiger to test drive it! On 8/4/07, pirouette at charter.net wrote: > Hey, > I am going to put a posi in my currently stock rear end. I'll have a T-5 with 2.95 1st and .8 overdrive. I have a 3.07 sitting on the shelf besides the 2.88 that's in the car. I'm inclined to use the 2.88, but vaguely remember a problem mentioned here and elsewhere about the mounting bolts not working with the posi. I searched TU site and couldn't find the reference. Could someone refresh my memory. What do I need to do to make this work. > Seems like I remember the 3.07 not having this problem. Anyone in favor of the final ratios I'd end up with using that? Thanks!! > Chris Hill > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From mk1a at earthlink.net Sun Aug 5 01:51:45 2007 From: mk1a at earthlink.net (Cliff Alexander) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 00:51:45 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] engine options Message-ID: <410-2200780575145765@earthlink.net> Tony-- I recently did the engine update in my Tiger that you are thinking about. I used the Ford crate motor and Tom Hall's T-5 conversion kit. Installation was smooth and easy. I used my existing headers with no issues. One word of advice, use a Centerforce clutch. I used the Ford "King Cobra" heavy duty clutch and was unhappy. So unhappy that with less than 1 week before we left for TUXXX, I removed the engine and trans and replaced the clutch with the Centerforce. If you or anyone on the list wants a Ford Cobra clutch with less than 1000 miles on it let me know. I live in the SF Bay Area and the drive up to and back from TUXXX was great, with the T-5 I was turning around 2000-2200 RPM at 70 to 80 MPH. Cliff From DJoh797014 at aol.com Sun Aug 5 11:47:41 2007 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:47:41 EDT Subject: [Tigers] engine options Message-ID: And with a big smile on your face. Or as the CA Surf Crowd says 'Hanging 32' Dave in Naptown where Surf is NOT up. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From MWood24020 at aol.com Sun Aug 5 12:47:03 2007 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 14:47:03 EDT Subject: [Tigers] engine options Message-ID: Any one comment on running 3:31 gears with the 2.87 or 2.95 1st gear transmissions? Mike ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mrlau at charter.net Sun Aug 5 14:18:59 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 15:18:59 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] engine options Message-ID: <20070805202042.OMGB26124.aa02.charter.net@aardvark> The best thing you can do is get your calculator out and measure tires and do figures on all of the cars that you know about and have had experience with and you will get a real good idea of how low that 3.31 is with a 2.95 first gear. A typical Tiger rear tire is about 25 inches around. 25 x 3.14 =78 inches around. 63360 inches in a mile divided by 78 inches = 812 times the tire turns to make a mile. 812 times a gear ratio of 3.31 =2687 rev per mile and a mile a minute is 60 per hour so you will turn 2687 revs per minute or per mile at 60 mph and if you had a .8 over drive you get 2687 x .8 and it equals 2150 at 60 mph. If you take the 2687 that you got with the 3.31 gears and multiply it by your 2.95 first you get 7900 rpm at 60 miles an hour in first gear not counting wheel spin. Take the 7900 rpm and divide it into 6000 and you get 76% as fast. That percentage times your 7900 revs per mile or revs per minute equals 45 miles per hour. If you don't understand what this is all about, write me personally and I'll get you through it. But anyone should be able to insert whatever figure in these calculations and get what ever they want. -- Bill -- Any one comment on running 3:31 gears with the 2.87 or 2.95 1st gear transmissions? Mike From MWood24020 at aol.com Sun Aug 5 14:53:13 2007 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 16:53:13 EDT Subject: [Tigers] engine options Message-ID: In a message dated 8/5/2007 1:21:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mrlau at charter.net writes: mile and a mile a minute is 60 per hour so you will turn 2687 revs per minute or per mile at 60 mph and if you had a .8 over drive you get 2687 x .8 and it equals 2150 at 60 Thank you for the replies. I can do the math, but was interested in any real world experience in running 3:31 gears with a 5 speed in general...given that there are so many variables, including tire diameter and characteristics of the specific engine (power band/rpm ceiling/etc.) being used. My suspicion is that 1st gear will end up of somewhat limited use, all other factors considered. I'm just not convinced I want to go back to the 2:88's... Thanks, Mike ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From laurin212 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 20:49:35 2007 From: laurin212 at yahoo.com (Peter Laurinaitis) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 22:49:35 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 3RD-RUN LAT SPINNER SURVEY References: Message-ID: <003d01c7d7d4$6c60f2c0$6601a8c0@PETERHOME> i'd take a spare pair if they were around, for my small hub LATs thks peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman C. Miller" To: Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: [Tigers] 3RD-RUN LAT SPINNER SURVEY > Some of you will remember we talked about this before, but that was > some time back and the list has changed totally since the early > days. What I'm after is a feel for how many small-hub LAT 70 owners > are missing, or are in need of matching spinners. If the numbers > work out - there might be hope. From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Sun Aug 5 22:14:16 2007 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 00:14:16 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Performance Products Airflo Air Cleaner add in Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF07125BEE@norn32.d30.intra> Listers, OK I installed the Performance Products "Airflo" by removing the air cleaner lid and enlarging the hole in the Airflo unit to fit over the Tiger original lid bushing tube that protrudes down from the air cleaner lid. It was a half inch hole. I simply slid it over the carb stud and tightened down the lid ... took about 5-10 minutes. Now that it is installed two immediate changes. 1) The car no longer will idle cold and needs to be COMPLETELY warm and 2) once warm it now idles about 150 RPM higher. This is REALLY weird but seems to indicate that there may be something to this component ... NOW I AM REALLY curious!!!!!!!!!!!! This little device may help our very restrictive air cleaners a LOT! By the way ... no I did not bump anything or adjust anything else ... I simply installed this thing under the air cleaner lid. I left my car a little fat at idle as I have no choke and it is more convenient to let it chug away and warm up. Now I need to babysit it as it lean starves I will now readjust the idle mixture screws a little. I had also precisely adjusted my idle to sit at 825-850 RPM at idle hot. Now it is running 950-1000 RPM and I will need to crank the idle down a bit. While this is a little subjective until I run the thing on the dyno ... I am already sold. It seems now to be running leaner at idle. OK I really want to try this thing on a dyno ..... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I plan on getting with Darrel Mountjoy (neighbor) and trying one on his Street Tiger to see if we repeat the result on a stock configured car. Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings 23961 Via El Rocio Mission Viejo, CA 92691 Bus: 949-305-5393 Fax: 425-955-6268 Cell: 949-289-3357 email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal email: timronak at cox.net From zymmer4 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 6 09:59:30 2007 From: zymmer4 at yahoo.com (Howard gentry) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] 2.88 diffy Message-ID: <22761.11824.qm@web51306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Chris, The 2.88/1 is probably real Large in diameter...some machining may be required to fit it into the axle housing..I have seen this before with my MG rearends when a huge ratio change is tried. howard ____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz From drmayf at mayfco.com Mon Aug 6 12:30:51 2007 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:30:51 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Speed Week, August 11 - 17th Message-ID: <46B768DB.5000700@mayfco.com> Well, the powers that be, have decided that Speed Week will happen as planned. Unfortunately, the courses that were going to be used were unuseable and are still partially under water. So new coourse layouts are being located and prepared. The salt is very wet. Make no mistake, this will not be very much fun for racers. The salt is going to stick to everything and make a mess. But they are not giving refunds so I will be going. I will be sitting it out for the first couple of days to see if improvements to the course happen in terms of drying out. If so, I will make what runs I can. Driving on wet salt is dicey. The trailer is loaded, the truck preped for tow. I have enough stuff in the trailer to make changes to the Worlds Fastest Sunbeam (wannabe) if I have to to pass tech. I made a lot of changes this past year and come could cause me grief, but hopefully not. My plan is to run for about 185 mph and then shoot for over 205. Wet salt may change that plan drastically however. There should still be lots of things to see and do for spectators who want to come and watchg. The gate fee is cheap and it will let you into the pits...on foot. Have to be a part of a crew to get to bring your car into the pits. Should be some interesting vehicles there. At least 2 fuel cell cars that I know of. If you manage to come up, look me up. Find the Big Red Trailer with the Spirit of Sunbeam logo on the front and sides (small logo about 2 ft x 15 inches). I will have cold drinks and maybe a Moon Pie or 2 if I can find them here in Podunk Pahrump. We will be launching Thursday morning at about 4:30 am just to beat the Las Vegas traffic though town on I-15. I will have my CB radio on on channel 22. Oh, can any of you Tiger or Alpine fans come up with top speeds that have been driven by Sunbeams? I had heard that there was another Sunbeam that has gone faster than I am seeking to go (>205 mph). Anybody know or heard of that? Any venue...anywhere? I would like to know, My quest may be over before it has solidly begun, lol... See ya there mayf From e.coiner at cox.net Mon Aug 6 16:19:36 2007 From: e.coiner at cox.net (e.coiner at cox.net) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:19:36 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] 3RD-RUN LAT SPINNER SURVEY Message-ID: <6269906.1186438776757.JavaMail.root@fed1wml18> Norm, Sign me up for a full set. Plus a couple of spares!!! Erich ---- Peter Laurinaitis wrote: > i'd take a spare pair if they were around, for my small hub LATs > > thks > peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman C. Miller" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 5:00 PM > Subject: [Tigers] 3RD-RUN LAT SPINNER SURVEY > > > > Some of you will remember we talked about this before, but that was > > some time back and the list has changed totally since the early > > days. What I'm after is a feel for how many small-hub LAT 70 owners > > are missing, or are in need of matching spinners. If the numbers > > work out - there might be hope. > _______________________________________________ > e.coiner at cox.net From tigerlat70 at comcast.net Mon Aug 6 20:12:57 2007 From: tigerlat70 at comcast.net (Steve Coleman) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 19:12:57 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] A 64 Harrington Tiger in Classic Car Magazine this month Message-ID: <01e601c7d898$796d3fe0$46cac647@stevesdell> The August issue of Thoroughbred & Classic Car Magazine has a nice article and nice pictures of the 64 Harrington Tiger and also 68 Triumph GTR5 Dove together in a article you can find it at Borders or Barns and Noble, never seen the color for the Tiger a sort of tan and sophisticated looking. Anyone ever had one or no someone that had or has one? share stories if you have any. Take Care, Steve Coleman From dave at chesmorebuck.com Tue Aug 7 12:45:44 2007 From: dave at chesmorebuck.com (Dave Buck) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:45:44 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] spinners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501c7d923$299127d0$0301a8c0@ute3> Will the new run of spinners fit the original Lat 70 or the newer version? Dave From rootes1 at earthlink.net Tue Aug 7 13:26:03 2007 From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:26:03 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] spinners In-Reply-To: <002501c7d923$299127d0$0301a8c0@ute3> References: <002501c7d923$299127d0$0301a8c0@ute3> Message-ID: Dave, The new spinners (if we can get them produced) are only for the original third-run LAT 70 wheel. Those wheels had hubs that were approximately 2 7/8" O.D. Sunbeam Specialties carries reproduction spinners that work with the other two versions of original LATs as well as their own reproduction wheel. ncm At 11:45 AM 8/7/2007, Dave Buck wrote: >Will the new run of spinners fit the original Lat 70 or the newer version? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/940 - Release Date: 8/6/2007 4:53 PM From larry.mayfield at mayfco.com Mon Aug 6 10:23:51 2007 From: larry.mayfield at mayfco.com (Lawrence E. Mayfield) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:23:51 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Speed Week Aug 11 - 17th Message-ID: <46B74B17.7050904@mayfco.com> Well, the powers that be, have decided that Speed Week will happen as planned. Unfortunately, the courses that were going to be used were unuseable and are still partially under water. So new coourse layouts are being located and prepared. The salt is very wet. Make no mistake, this will not be very much fun for racers. The salt is going to stick to everything and make a mess. But they are not giving refunds so I will be going. I will be sitting it out for the first couple of days to see if improvements to the course happen in terms of drying out. If so, I will make what runs I can. Driving on wet salt is dicey. The trailer is loaded, the truck preped for tow. I have enough stuff in the trailer to make changes to the Worlds Fastest Sunbeam (wannabe) if I have to to pass tech. I made a lot of changes this past year and come could cause me grief, but hopefully not. My plan is to run for about 185 mph and then shoot for over 205. Wet salt may change that plan drastically however. There should still be lots of things to see and do for spectators who want to come and watchg. The gate fee is cheap and it will let you into the pits...on foot. Have to be a part of a crew to get to bring your car into the pits. Should be some interesting vehicles there. At least 2 fuel cell cars that I know of. If you manage to come up, look me up. Find the Big Red Trailer with the Spirit of Sunbeam logo on the front and sides (small logo about 2 ft x 15 inches). I will have cold drinks and maybe a Moon Pie or 2 if I can find them here in Podunk Pahrump. We will be launching Thursday morning at about 4:30 am just to beat the Las Vegas traffic though town on I-15. I will have my CB radio on on channel 22. Oh, can any of you Tiger or Alpine fans come up with top speeds that have been driven by Sunbeams? I had heard that there was another Sunbeam that has gone faster than I am seeking to go (>205 mph). Anybody know or heard of that? Any venue...anywhere? I would like to know, My quest may be over before it has solidly begun, lol... See ya there mayf From KENNON1 at aol.com Wed Aug 8 03:50:20 2007 From: KENNON1 at aol.com (KENNON1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 05:50:20 EDT Subject: [Tigers] re tiger in ga. Message-ID: square doors and hood , a 1967 with a 260 ?? and a center bar grille. I'm assuming its a mk1a ?? I have not looked up the numbers or spoken with Norm. unusual spin on oil filter (unlike my 67 mk2) if you view it, assess the possibility of a front end graft job?? john atl ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From tigerfixer at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 10:25:44 2007 From: tigerfixer at yahoo.com (Bill Martin) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 09:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] engine options In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <128999.33966.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mike et.al. I am running 3:23 gears in my beater with the intention of putting a 5 speed in the car eventually. I picked the gears as I didn't like the 3:31s in my last car and had 3:07s in my first tiger with a 5 speed. Dale has used 3:23s in numerous tigers with the 5 speed for his customers. I have 22 inch tall 245/50/13 Avon CR500s on the rear and even with the 4 speed its not to bad on the freeway. Just another thing to ponder. Bill ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC From rmebstein at aol.com Wed Aug 8 15:12:56 2007 From: rmebstein at aol.com (rmebstein at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:12:56 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article In-Reply-To: <128999.33966.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9A81806C6C860-3A8-68B8@webmail-de04.sysops.aol.com> Just an FYI This month's issue of Keith Martin's Sports Car Market auction magazine has a two page article on the Sunbeam Tiger titled "Sunbeam's Snakebit Tiger." The article asks the question of why the Tiger's value is so low comparatively to?other Shelby-related autos and collectible classics and why it suffers from the Rodney Dangerfield syndrome. They asked a group of self-proclaimed "gearheads" and they all agreed it?was "because of the styling." They also mention that Algers reduce the valueThe article goes on tot state that a buyer can still find a very nice Tiger for under $50K. The MK1 Tiger they chose to picture?in the article is missing its front-to-rear side trim. Further disrespect, I suppose. On newsstands now for your reading pleasure. Rodney ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From CoolVT at aol.com Wed Aug 8 15:19:16 2007 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 17:19:16 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: I've always thought, regardless of the styling, if Tigers had been shipped from Rootes to Shelby's plant for just a few touches (could be anything).... And then stick a Shelby plate under the hood like other Shelby cars..... then it would be considered to be a "Shelby" and would make all the difference in the world in pricing. Mark L. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From MWood24020 at aol.com Wed Aug 8 15:42:00 2007 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 17:42:00 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:20:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, CoolVT at aol.com writes: I've always thought, regardless of the styling, if Tigers had been shipped from Rootes to Shelby's plant for just a few touches (could be anything).... And then stick a Shelby plate under the hood like other Shelby cars..... then it would be considered to be a "Shelby" and would make all the difference in the world in pricing. I would agree that a clearer connection with Shelby would increase value. The other thing holding the Tiger back is the lack of any significant racing success at, say, a FIA type level. The Tiger had a couple of decent seasons in International rallying and one "almost" year in SCCA, but other than that, doesn't have that big competition history which can be very helpful in creating a larger following in the collector market. Most people seem to find the styling pleasing, or at least inoffensive, but I guess the similarity with the Alpine, as the press at that time pointed out, wasn't helpful for branding the car as something "special". Of course, the positive trade off is that Tigers continue to be relatively affordable and, as such, represent great "bang for the buck"... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 8 15:40:56 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:40:56 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: <20070808214238.BYXM7864.aa03.charter.net@aardvark> In other words these guys had no idea of why. The styling of the Sunbeams and the Tigers was first rate. I think that it had to do more with the name Sunbeam which was of course also a mixmaster as we have all heard a thousand times. Once right after I just finished my Alpine with a 302 and automatic I took it to a dinner at a posh restaurant-country club for my companies Christmas dinner. When the place closed late, everyone left at the same time and there was more than one party leaving. As the valet brought my Alger up from the parking lot everyone could hear the engine rumbling. I hadn't put any of the letters or chrome on the car so no one could read the name of it anywhere. I was in the back of the line when it came up and some young hottie from a different group said to her sugar daddy," My, what kind of car is that." He not wanting to appear as dumb as he knew he was, said, "That's an old Ferrari and it is probably worth a quarter million dollars." People asked me for years if I still had my Ferrari. This was about 1980 so a quarter of a million for any auto at that time was phenomenal but the bottom line is that were it not for superior styling the old goat's response would have been, "Who cares". Instead it looked like a quarter million worth of styling to him. At the time I had only $1700 in the whole vehicle plus a ton of hours of course. Probably about a 1/4 mil worth. Anybody want to see a pic of the 1/4 mil car let me know. ----Bill ---- Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Just an FYI This month's issue of Keith Martin's Sports Car Market auction magazine has a two page article on the Sunbeam Tiger titled "Sunbeam's Snakebit Tiger." The article asks the question of why the Tiger's value is so low comparatively to?other Shelby-related autos and collectible classics and why it suffers from the Rodney Dangerfield syndrome. They asked a group of self-proclaimed "gearheads" and they all agreed it?was "because of the styling." They also mention that Algers reduce the valueThe article goes on tot state that a buyer can still find a very nice Tiger for under $50K. The MK1 Tiger they chose to picture?in the article is missing its front-to-rear side trim. Further disrespect, I suppose. On newsstands now for your reading pleasure. Rodney From rsfeldusa at netscape.net Wed Aug 8 15:56:10 2007 From: rsfeldusa at netscape.net (rsfeldusa at netscape.net) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:56:10 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger article Message-ID: <8C9A81E10E6B2CC-F20-8438@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Polite recount?about the development of the Tiger in the new 9/07 issue of Sports Car Market magazine. Author wonders why it hasn't taken off value-wise like the Shelby Cobra. He muses that part of the reason?may be that the Alpine had an appearance in "Butterfield 8," came off as a "secretary's car" & the design a bit dull. It's other appearance in "Dr. No" supposedly didn't bolster it's image. Roger H. Sternfeld '66 Tiger Mk1a ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. From atwittsend at verizon.net Wed Aug 8 16:09:31 2007 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:09:31 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article References: Message-ID: <003501c7da08$cc740ea0$0202a8c0@allinthefamily> Though George Boskoff was a Shelby employee, I don't think Shelby himself had a whole lot to do with the car. From the Mammoth Tiger's United I only recall Boskoff stating Shelby told him: "Put one of our engines in that Alpine," and "Just bend the d*mn steering arms." But still, it's nice to at least be a step-child when "dad" is famous. Regarding the looks, I'm no "fin fan," but I think they actually made the car look better (though they could have been toned down slightly). The treatment the Tigers got looks like the back end of a 1958 Rambler American. I guess "to each his own," but I still like the looks of the Tiger in general. As much as I can understand one's desire to see an inceased value in their car had the value gone the way of the Cobra perhaps many of us on the list couldn't have ever owned onee. Tom Witt From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 16:34:33 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 17:34:33 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article In-Reply-To: <003501c7da08$cc740ea0$0202a8c0@allinthefamily> References: <003501c7da08$cc740ea0$0202a8c0@allinthefamily> Message-ID: <39a841b0708081534s79880effx2d9d06ace364cc09@mail.gmail.com> i think thats the key point. other the first prototype (well, second prototype) no tiger went anywhere near the shelby factory. its the same reason that a used and hammered gt-h mustang (the hertz model) sells for $60k when you can buy the same car, new, from ford for about $30k. looks are subjective of course but i think its very good looking (particularly with a series i - iii alpine grill in it!). On 8/8/07, Thomas Witt wrote: > Though George Boskoff was a Shelby employee, I don't think Shelby himself > had a whole lot to do with the car. From the Mammoth Tiger's United I only > recall Boskoff stating Shelby told him: > "Put one of our engines in that Alpine," and "Just bend the d*mn steering > arms." But still, it's nice to at least be a step-child when "dad" is > famous. > > Regarding the looks, I'm no "fin fan," but I think they actually made the > car look better (though they could have been toned down slightly). The > treatment the Tigers got looks like the back end of a 1958 Rambler American. > I guess "to each his own," but I still like the looks of the Tiger in > general. As much as I can understand one's desire to see an inceased value > in their car had the value gone the way of the Cobra perhaps many of us on > the list couldn't have ever owned onee. > Tom Witt > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From MWood24020 at aol.com Wed Aug 8 16:49:38 2007 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 18:49:38 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: Which speaks to the first posters point, which was: ...if Tigers had been shipped from Rootes to Shelby's plant for just a few touches (could be anything).... And then stick a Shelby plate under the hood like other Shelby cars..... then it would be considered to be a "Shelby" and would make all the difference in the world in pricing... I don't think anyone is arguing that the Tiger was, or is, a "Shelby", just that if Shelby's involvement had been more than initial feasibility and engineering work, the car would be perceived differently in the collector community and worth more money. The bottom line is that there are a number of characteristics which make some collector cars worth more than others, including outstanding styling, competition success, innovation, initial cost/quality, initial popularity/nostalgia etc., and the Tiger just doesn't hit on enough of those "cylinders" to be super high on the collector's radar screen....which, personally, I have no problem with! In a message dated 8/8/2007 3:35:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, owain.lloyd at gmail.com writes: i think thats the key point. other the first prototype (well, second prototype) no tiger went anywhere near the shelby factory. its the same reason that a used and hammered gt-h mustang (the hertz model) sells for $60k when you can buy the same car, new, from ford for about $30k. looks are subjective of course but i think its very good looking (particularly with a series i - iii alpine grill in it!). On 8/8/07, Thomas Witt wrote: > Though George Boskoff was a Shelby employee, I don't think Shelby himself > had a whole lot to do with the car. From the Mammoth Tiger's United I only > recall Boskoff stating Shelby told him: > "Put one of our engines in that Alpine," and "Just bend the d*mn steering > arms." But still, it's nice to at least be a step-child when "dad" is > famous. > > Regarding the looks, I'm no "fin fan," but I think they actually made the > car look better (though they could have been toned down slightly). The > treatment the Tigers got looks like the back end of a 1958 Rambler American. > I guess "to each his own," but I still like the looks of the Tiger in > general. As much as I can understand one's desire to see an inceased value > in their car had the value gone the way of the Cobra perhaps many of us on > the list couldn't have ever owned onee. > Tom Witt > _______________________________________________ ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gswaybright at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 17:56:18 2007 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article - styling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <678105.87712.qm@web31701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> While the Tiger styling is very handsome, and with the right wheels and other accessories, starts to become somewhat aggressive looking, it is not drop dead sexy, and does not elicit the visceral response the way a Ferrari, Cobra, Jag, Corvette, Aston or even most American muscle cars will. In stock trim, it is in fact very, very tame looking (thus the secretary's car image). I think that same issue affects the values of 50's T-birds that our Tigers so closely resemble. Both are great looking, but they don't shout "I'm fast and powerful!" like the others mentioned. Of course that's one reason I like it, I want to be fast and powerful without everyone around knowing it at a glance! Stephen Waybright From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Wed Aug 8 18:06:47 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 20:06:47 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F622@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> I think it's a matter of perspective. When sitting next to an E-Type, XK, Cobra, Aston, or the more famous muscle cars of the era, I wouldn't expect my Tiger to get much attention. However, when I bring it to the local LBC events, it gets a lot of attention from fellow Triumph, MG, Healey and Lotus people. ----- Original Message ----- From: tigers-bounces+wsteinman=pogolaw.com at autox.team.net To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Wed Aug 08 18:09:31 2007 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Though George Boskoff was a Shelby employee, I don't think Shelby himself had a whole lot to do with the car. From the Mammoth Tiger's United I only recall Boskoff stating Shelby told him: "Put one of our engines in that Alpine," and "Just bend the d*mn steering arms." But still, it's nice to at least be a step-child when "dad" is famous. Regarding the looks, I'm no "fin fan," but I think they actually made the car look better (though they could have been toned down slightly). The treatment the Tigers got looks like the back end of a 1958 Rambler American. I guess "to each his own," but I still like the looks of the Tiger in general. As much as I can understand one's desire to see an inceased value in their car had the value gone the way of the Cobra perhaps many of us on the list couldn't have ever owned onee. Tom Witt _______________________________________________ wsteinman at pogolaw.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 8 19:05:47 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 20:05:47 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article In-Reply-To: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F622@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> References: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F622@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> Message-ID: <39a841b0708081805w74928459hfccda89220ba5529@mail.gmail.com> yes, this is definately a matter of taste. i don't find e-types or mg's attractive in the slightest. american muscle has limited interest to me, but cobras and astons are drop dead gorgous. it probably doesn't help that there are not that many tigers. too many to be rare but not enough to be well known. On 8/8/07, Steinman, Bill wrote: > I think it's a matter of perspective. When sitting next to an E-Type, XK, Cobra, Aston, or the more famous muscle cars of the era, I wouldn't expect my Tiger to get much attention. However, when I bring it to the local LBC events, it gets a lot of attention from fellow Triumph, MG, Healey and Lotus people. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tigers-bounces+wsteinman=pogolaw.com at autox.team.net > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Sent: Wed Aug 08 18:09:31 2007 > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article > > Though George Boskoff was a Shelby employee, I don't think Shelby himself > had a whole lot to do with the car. From the Mammoth Tiger's United I only > recall Boskoff stating Shelby told him: > "Put one of our engines in that Alpine," and "Just bend the d*mn steering > arms." But still, it's nice to at least be a step-child when "dad" is > famous. > > Regarding the looks, I'm no "fin fan," but I think they actually made the > car look better (though they could have been toned down slightly). The > treatment the Tigers got looks like the back end of a 1958 Rambler American. > I guess "to each his own," but I still like the looks of the Tiger in > general. As much as I can understand one's desire to see an inceased value > in their car had the value gone the way of the Cobra perhaps many of us on > the list couldn't have ever owned onee. > Tom Witt > _______________________________________________ > wsteinman at pogolaw.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > > > NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. > > IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. > > Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Aug 8 19:36:15 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:36:15 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article - styling Message-ID: I have more agressive looking cars, but personally like the more upright classic looks of the Tiger. I also think a Tiger is color dependent. My car is Mignight Blue, whihc I think looks truly regal. I am going for a subtle sleeper, with near stock looks with a bunch of power under the hood. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 While the Tiger styling is very handsome, and with the right wheels and other accessories, starts to become somewhat aggressive looking, it is not drop dead sexy, and does not elicit the visceral response the way a Ferrari, Cobra, Jag, Corvette, Aston or even most American muscle cars will. In stock trim, it is in fact very, very tame looking (thus the secretary's car image). I think that same issue affects the values of 50's T-birds that our Tigers so closely resemble. Both are great looking, but they don't shout "I'm fast and powerful!" like the others mentioned. Of course that's one reason I like it, I want to be fast and powerful without everyone around knowing it at a glance! ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 8 20:05:52 2007 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:05:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: <002801c7da29$d091f850$6501a8c0@your03667082de> If only Rootes would have called it the Shelby Sunbeam Tiger than we could probably add $50,000 to the value of a restored car. Most of the public out there have no idea that Shelby had anything to do with the car. Although when you think about it, the Shelby name doesn't seem to help the various mid eighties Dodges' like the Omni GLH or Shelby Charger. I can't even remember when I last saw a Shelby Dodge. As far as the styling goes, I like it. Last Saturday up on Woodward Ave. with all of the other gearheads in anticipation of the cruise, a Ferrari owner stopped and told me he always liked the styling of the Tiger. It all depends on what you like. Jeff From Drmoonstone at aol.com Wed Aug 8 20:29:48 2007 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:29:48 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: Ah, reminds me of the Italian designed jewel, the TR4. Look close you might see similar lines (even though they are not related at all). Moonstone 1964 MK1 1967 MK1a 1967 MK11 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mrlau at charter.net Wed Aug 8 20:41:44 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:41:44 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: <20070809024325.WGXH1254.aa04.charter.net@aardvark> Then we wouldn't be willing to drive them. How many real Cobras have I seen lately? The last one was probably 20 years ago on the streets but I have a good chance of seeing a replica any time. Most people have no idea what an Alpine is much less a Tiger. I think there are only 3 or 4 cars in St. Louis where I live. -- Bill - If only Rootes would have called it the Shelby Sunbeam Tiger than we could probably add $50,000 to the value of a restored car. Most of the public out there have no idea that Shelby had anything to do with the car. Although when you think about it, the Shelby name doesn't seem to help the various mid eighties Dodges' like the Omni GLH or Shelby Charger. I can't even remember when I last saw a Shelby Dodge. As far as the styling goes, I like it. Last Saturday up on Woodward Ave. with all of the other gearheads in anticipation of the cruise, a Ferrari owner stopped and told me he always liked the styling of the Tiger. It all depends on what you like. From bobbridgeford at msn.com Wed Aug 8 22:33:56 2007 From: bobbridgeford at msn.com (Robert Bridgeford) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 21:33:56 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article In-Reply-To: <39a841b0708081805w74928459hfccda89220ba5529@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I own an XKE (black) , a Tiger (red)and a Corvette (silver C-5). I personally find the XKE the most attractive design. However, the Tiger gains more attention than either of the other cars at any cruise night I attend, or even parked on the street of my small central Oregon town. It seems to be the most "approachable" of the cars It garners more questions, more "my uncle owned one of those" and more mouthed silent "T I G E R" s from men telling their wives and children what that parked car is. One of these days that will be worth money in the bank! Bob Bridgeford 541 549 9539 Sisters OR 97759 From maliburevue at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 23:45:16 2007 From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article In-Reply-To: <20070809024325.WGXH1254.aa04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <749097.78599.qm@web33209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A number of years ago I noticed a car under a cover in a garage down the street from my son's best friend. Being a car guy, I had always wondered what was under there. A couple of years ago, my son and his friend were walking by that house and the garage door was open with the car covered. They asked the owner what was under the car cover. He was a little hesitant to tell them and kind of played with them until they guessed what it was. He wanted to see if they knew their cars. My son came home immediately and said, " Dad, you've got a new best friend in the neighborhood." We went back over and It turned out to be an original '65 289 Cobra. My new best friend, Marv, bought the car in 1968. It was his daily driver for over 20 years. I turned him on to Mike McCluskey, world famous Cobra restorer, who was a high school friend of Buck Tripple and Jack Hubke, both Tiger owners. 2 years ago Marv had his slabside Cobra restored to mint condition for a tidy some. The best part is he drives it on the street almost every weekend. He's my kind of guy, besides, Marv says, the value of a Cobra is in the pink slip and the vin number and McCluskey can build one from scratch. So, yes, there are Cobra owners who actually drive their cars on the street. GC --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From pirouette at charter.net Thu Aug 9 03:50:15 2007 From: pirouette at charter.net (pirouette at charter.net) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 2:50:15 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] styling/value Message-ID: <1785549133.1186653015618.JavaMail.root@fepweb07> >> initial popularity/nostalgia etc., That was the most cogent phrase in the discussion, along with reference to the stock styling configuration (the term 'beauty ring' instantly brings to mind 'oxymoron'). It's no accident in Bill Lau's story that the vocal admirer was a woman. Nor that the exclamation one hears so often from outside the community is "Cute!'. I was wandering around a parking lot / display area at Hot August Nights today. Two things struck me. Well, the first thing almost struck me, a nicely detailed car with a lumpity lump engine driven by a guy with yelow pallor and an oxygen tube under his nose. Less focused than a woman in an SUV with magnetic signs on the door and a cellphone in her ear. But I digress. The second thing that struck me was that many of the extravagantly done street rods have gone whole hog into modern tech. Ultra no -clutter engine bays with late model Vette EFI that looks like a styling excercise in attractive minimaliism. 'Nostalgia' from a numbers point of view has a lot to do with 'initial popularity'. Look at the period ads from Rootes. 'Growl,growl' and a picture of a car that looks like a Nash with a chrome strip down the side. Look at the period reviews, even the ones that said guardedly positive things about performance. I particularly remember one that shows the car (ugly wheels) from the rear taking off and smoking ONE back tire. Huh??! Let's face it, the styling short of a really worked car is somewhat feminine. I LIKE that, but in it's time, it was a faster MG (short, small in relation to any American iron) competing against out of the box and well known muscle (3-two's GTO's, Shelby's, etc.) for cachet. Didn't happen, so for the masses there's not much for nostalgia to tap into. The inevitable guy whose 'Uncle had one'?? His father had two sisters. But he did at one point see a car with aftermarket wheels and a 4-barrel. That sort of exposure does not translate into bmarket interestb in the sense that other Shelby related vehicles have experienced it. And wonbt unless Michael J. Fox gets involved. Chris Hill P.S. b Donbt believe the styling is feminine? If you wander around a T.U., especially as the Rally sets up, itbs impossible not to notice that the typical Tiger owner is a man of slightly above average height and very solidly built. Put him in the driverbs seat and he looks EXACTLY like Bob Hoskins stuffed in that little car zipping around in Roger Rabbit. Any psychologists on the list? Bye for now. If therebs anyone I havenbt managed to offend, Ibll try to do better tomorrow. From rjw at wengco.com Thu Aug 9 04:52:54 2007 From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 06:52:54 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Value Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C55584DB@weco1.wengco.com> I am amazed to here all of the complaining about the value of the Tiger. I searched for quite a while and finally found a rough but complete tiger, after about $25,000, countless hours I now have a complete 66 Tiger with the #'s matching drive train steel wheels and dog dish hub caps. Do you think the 289 Cobra would be worth $500,000 with a 5 speed, 4 wheel discs and a built 302? Bob From arado7 at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 9 05:36:06 2007 From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 07:36:06 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Value References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C55584DB@weco1.wengco.com> Message-ID: <003d01c7da79$79aa7260$283cdf45@gmircep11juynz> >I am amazed to here all of the complaining about the value of the Tiger. > I searched for quite a while and finally found a rough but complete > tiger, after about $25,000, countless hours I now have a complete 66 > Tiger with the #'s matching drive train steel wheels and dog dish hub > caps. Do you think the 289 Cobra would be worth $500,000 with a 5 speed, > 4 wheel discs and a built 302? > I echo the sentiment. I have striven to maintain the originality and preservation of my Mk1. This car is becoming very rare. One of the few not modified. My original brake booster still there and works...Dot 5..Whoops there goes originality. Gary B9472283 From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Thu Aug 9 06:09:56 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 08:09:56 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Value Debate Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F626@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> Here's a question that has occured to me concerning the discussion of value. I'm curious how people think of their Tigers. For me, the Tiger is a little British sports car, and its primary competiton (in terms of valur, but also what it competed against in the show room back in the day) are big Healeys, Triumphs, MGs, Lotus. I don't think that the car was really in Jag, AC and Aston territory then, and I think Lord Rootes would have agreed. If I recall the history correctly, the Tiger came about not only to create an amazing sports machine in its own right (and at that they succeeded wildly), but to fend off the Sunbeam badge's primary competition. Look what was happening in the mid-Sixties. Healeys went from rough roadster to convertible with the BJ7 and then the donwright elegant BJ8, and increased horsepower. Triumph had plans to introduce IRS, and in truth had a more nimble car in the TR4. Rumors abounded about the forthcoming MGC and its six-cylinder engine. They needed to make a car that compete. And yes, there was a desire to nip at Jag's heels, but as direct competition? Anyway, viewed through that lense, the Tiger is doing very well in terms of value, and also gets a lot of attention. NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From awtiger at cox.net Thu Aug 9 08:48:42 2007 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:48:42 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Value Debate Message-ID: <14897558.1186670922425.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml18.mgt.cox.net> I, too, look at my Tiger as primarily a LBC first, just with a more powerful engine. I used to own a '65 Shelby G.T. 350 and had a ball with the car, but the Tiger to me is twice as much fun. Whereever you go, the Tiger appeals to just about everyone, from British car fans to muscle car fans. Short of a Cobra, the Tiger is the absolute best mix of British class and American horsepower. I also prefer my car to be as close to stock form as I can make it. I don't mind adding on LAT options, but I have resisted the temptation to "hot-rod" the motor on mine. The car is so pleasant to drive and yet exciting at the same time just the way it came from the factory. I'm a firm believer that Rootes knew what they were doing and hit the proverbial nail on the head with respect to the kind of market they were trying to reach. The bottom line here, guys, is to just enjoy your car, however you want it equipped. It's your car...you paid for it...do it the way you want it. The Sunbeam crowd has always been a very "accepting" bunch; there's room for the stockers as well as the hot rods. Just celibrate the fact that we all own a very unique motor car and have fun in the way Rootes intended us to...drive 'em!! Keep Tigerin', Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From gswaybright at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 09:19:30 2007 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 08:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Value Debate / quandary In-Reply-To: <14897558.1186670922425.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml18.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: <467824.42651.qm@web31709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Obviously we all love our Tigers and I have not come across any Tiger owner whose intention is to keep the car stashed away to preserve the future value (though I have precious little time to use my car as I'd like to). The only reason the value issue pops up, is that we Tiger owners simply can't understand why so many other "car guys" don't want Tigers every bit as much (which would correspindingly drive values through the roof), so we theorize about what in the world is it, that those other folks just don't get about our fine little cars. If you want to talk about some really under appreciated (and undervalued) cars, take a look at our car's factory siblings, the Jensen Interceptor and Jensen Healey. I still have my Interceptor, but had to sell the JH (and my Alpine project car) when we recently moved. :( Stephen Waybright From un-cole-a at juno.com Thu Aug 9 09:23:52 2007 From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:23:52 GMT Subject: [Tigers] Value Message-ID: <20070809.112352.26154.0@webmail28.lax.untd.com> I agree with Gray and also with a lot of the other points people have brought up. When I was stationed in England my friend bought a Tiger, what a hoot it was running around the back roads of England. I have wanted one ever since. Jump 20 years in the future, I bought a 65 SIV Alpine because a Tiger was still out of my price range, I love the Alpine but my heart wanted a Tiger. This year I finally found a Tiger I could afford, most of it is original and needs a complete restoration but I could afford it. And I think that is a big advantage we have over the other Shelby connected cars. When it comes to restoration I will do what I can to keep it correct and original and with in my budget, the good thing about that is the rest of the Tiger community will except that and encourage me in the restoration no matter how far I go with it. With other car clubs or communities you don't get that. The Tiger and it's owners are a unique bunch of people, yes we could have the Shelby name more readily connected to the car But how many of us would have are Tigers right now!! I for one could not afford it. Rootes took a gamble and for what they were trying to achieve, as a car company, they were able to pull it off. And because of that you and I can afford and drive are Tigers with pride!!! Tim B9470149 From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Thu Aug 9 09:44:25 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:44:25 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Value Debate / quandary Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F629@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> Well said. And three cheers for originality. My Tiger was mostly stock when I bought her, save for an edelbrock carb in place of the holley, the oil filter moved to under the left wheel well (I assume that's not original, right?), missing the side trim, outrageously loud three-inch flow-through exhaust, after-market (but natty and period correct) Cosmic wheels, no bumper over-riders, horrible carpet, and a modern fuel pump. Well, Max is now clad with LAT-70s, has side trim and over-riders, and half the carpet kit is in. An SU pump is in the box ready for install. I'm keeping the Edelbrok carb and just love the sound of that exhaust too much to change it. I always wanted a Tiger, and never seriously considered one because I assumed the prices were beyond reach. I was delighted to find that I could afford one, and it is such a joy! ----- Original Message ----- From: tigers-bounces+wsteinman=pogolaw.com at autox.team.net To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Thu Aug 09 11:19:30 2007 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Value Debate / quandary Obviously we all love our Tigers and I have not come across any Tiger owner whose intention is to keep the car stashed away to preserve the future value (though I have precious little time to use my car as I'd like to). The only reason the value issue pops up, is that we Tiger owners simply can't understand why so many other "car guys" don't want Tigers every bit as much (which would correspindingly drive values through the roof), so we theorize about what in the world is it, that those other folks just don't get about our fine little cars. If you want to talk about some really under appreciated (and undervalued) cars, take a look at our car's factory siblings, the Jensen Interceptor and Jensen Healey. I still have my Interceptor, but had to sell the JH (and my Alpine project car) when we recently moved. :( Stephen Waybright _______________________________________________ wsteinman at pogolaw.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From CMcCann at lwpb.com Thu Aug 9 10:01:56 2007 From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:01:56 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Value Debate In-Reply-To: <14897558.1186670922425.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml18.mgt.cox.net> References: <14897558.1186670922425.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml18.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: This is interesting that it generates so much discussion. I was fascinated by Tigers originally due to the Shelby connection, because from a young age the Cobra was the paramount dream car. .... So I originally purchased my Tiger because it was the only way I could afford to own a piece of such history, similar to the Cobra. I have downloaded and purchased a lot of vintage racing photos that show big and small block Cobras rounding the corner at famous tracks right along side the Hollywood car or other Tigers, GT 350's, Jags and Vettes. I purchased my Tiger out of a desire to have a stake in that which was represented in those photos, but that later evolved into something more. I now know that Carroll didn't necessarily have a lot to due with the car's birth, probably more from Ken Miles if I recall. My fascination with Tigers has evolved into a fascination with all cars in the era that where European or Euro-influenced and also powered by American iron. Detomaso Pantera's, Cobra's, Lotus-ford, Cosworth, and several others. I would never try to change anyone's mind about the purist vs. nonpurist argument, mainly because I haven't really been a Tiger owner long enough to make such a case, and also because I know I would never succeed in changing anyone's mind. Nor do I want to. I find often that the owners in favor of originality seem to be less enthusiastic of modified cars, but an owner with a modified car, like me, usually has the full respect for a Tiger owner who has a number matching restored car. I am not a purist. I have always like the drivability and look of every classic that I can remember when it had oversized tires, loud exhaust, and a tuned motor with more horsepower than it had any business with. People like Doan Spencer took Stock Tigers and race prepped them to be just that, and it fascinates me. I do want to commend the purists though, for the discipline and attention to detail of such cars has my utmost respect. I find its also much more time consuming and potentially expensive to restore a car perfectly. Hats off to you guys for having the patience. Cullen McCann Oklahoma City B382001452 From lwall at wt-inc.com Thu Aug 9 10:21:12 2007 From: lwall at wt-inc.com (Lynn Wall) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:21:12 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger ram air Message-ID: <002601c7daa1$4dbd2620$e9377260$@com> Listers, Am I remembering right? Did someone mention that they were building a "ram air" style air intake for their Tiger? If so I would love to hear how they did and any feedback from it. Lynn From cjcoffel at sonic.net Thu Aug 9 11:18:11 2007 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:18:11 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Value Debate References: <14897558.1186670922425.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml18.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: <002001c7daa9$43b23870$4a448e40@pc1> To my kids it's like Dad owns Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. We only drive the Tiger for fun. Who cares about values. I like the fact most people don't know what it is. I think if they blew up like Shelbys it wouldn't be the same................... The answer to the stock/modified debate is easily fixed by owning two Tigers.................................. From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu Aug 9 11:23:38 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:23:38 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger ram air Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108B7B@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Are you thinking a cowl induction style intake? There's this one by Larry Paulick: http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickColdAirScoop/pt-PaulickColdA irScoop1.asp And then there's this LAT hood duct arrangement by Tim Ronak: http://www.tigersunited.com/techtips/TRonakRamAir/TimRonakRamAir.pdf Note that this is a PDF document, right-click on it and select 'save as' to copy it to your computer and then open it. It will also open in your browser if you have a PDF reader linked to your browser. And yes, I know I have to create a real link to Tim's article on the TU website. To get a better ram effect (out of the boundary layer and the low-pressure zone that exists at the LAT-70 hood scoop inlet because of the hood curvature) you'd probably have to go to a Pro-Stock type elevated hood scoop, but that wouldn't look very stock. Best regards, Theo From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Thu Aug 9 11:29:55 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:29:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger appeal Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F62A@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> One of the other things that made me fall in love with the Tiger is the story. Running around with a tape measure to figure out which V8 would fit, meeting with Shelby, secretly taking $10 grand out of the company, hiding it from Lord Rootes, presenting the prototype to a skeptical engineering department, Lord Rootes' test drive, the modification to the body shell made by hammer-wielding employees at Jensen. Just a fantastic story. Makes the car all that more appealing. NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From GRMTim at aol.com Thu Aug 9 11:54:33 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:54:33 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article Message-ID: If you guys liked that article, just wait until you see the huge spread John Webber wrote on the Hollywood Sport Car Tiger in the November issue of Classic Motorsports. It hits newsstands in just a few weeks! Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mtjoy at telis.org Thu Aug 9 12:49:46 2007 From: mtjoy at telis.org (Mountjoy) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:49:46 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 41 References: Message-ID: <001c01c7dab6$0eb5ffa0$1eb90c45@computer> John surely did a great article on my Le Mans Tiger. Working with him on the article was certainly a pleasure. It doesn't get better than John. Darrell > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:54:33 EDT > From: GRMTim at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger Magazine Article > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Cc: susanlj100 at adelphia.net > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > If you guys liked that article, just wait until you see the huge spread > John > Webber wrote on the Hollywood Sport Car Tiger in the November issue of > Classic > Motorsports. It hits newsstands in just a few weeks! > > Tim Suddard > Publisher; Classic Motorsports > and Grassroots Motorsports magazines > www.classicmotorsports.net > www.grassrootsmotorsports.com > Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 From atwittsend at verizon.net Thu Aug 9 13:38:20 2007 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:38:20 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Value References: <20070809.112352.26154.0@webmail28.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <004401c7dabc$d79ac620$0202a8c0@allinthefamily> On a similar note, does the Cobra crowd have anything that can compete with the escalation associated with The Book of Norman? If I recall correct the last Ebay price for TBON (about $1,500) represents nearly half the price I paid for my Tiger (such as it was) seven years ago. Tom Witt From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 13:50:44 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:50:44 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Value In-Reply-To: <004401c7dabc$d79ac620$0202a8c0@allinthefamily> References: <20070809.112352.26154.0@webmail28.lax.untd.com> <004401c7dabc$d79ac620$0202a8c0@allinthefamily> Message-ID: <39a841b0708091250k6c5f4933wc257ad15873ec5e@mail.gmail.com> that's something i just don't understand. amazon offers a print on demand service. rare books like this should be a thing of the past. i'm not going to buy one out of principle unless more are printed and the price comes down. norm, you could sell more books and help with the spread of information without the outlay for a print run. http://www.booksurgepages.com/amzn/ondemand/ failing that, a scan of the book in pdf form would be perfectly useable. On 8/9/07, Thomas Witt wrote: > On a similar note, does the Cobra crowd have anything that can compete with > the escalation associated with The Book of Norman? If I recall correct the > last Ebay price for TBON (about $1,500) represents nearly half the price I > paid for my Tiger (such as it was) seven years ago. > > Tom Witt > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 9 14:12:53 2007 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:12:53 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Kill it, before it spreads! Message-ID: <001a01c7dac1$abadb5e0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> "the modification to the body shell made by hammer-wielding employees at Jensen. " Damn, this story never dies. No one at Jensen ever pounded the body shell of a Tiger by a hammer. Jensen was too professional a business to let loose workers with hammers wacking at 7,000+ cars for a major auto manufacturer. The firewall was a die pressing. Check it out, you shouldn't see hammer marks unless a DPO did it. I am amazed to here all of the complaining about the value of the Tiger. > I searched for quite a while and finally found a rough but complete > tiger, after about $25,000, countless hours I now have a complete 66 > Tiger with the #'s matching drive train steel wheels and dog dish hub > caps. Do you think the 289 Cobra would be worth $500,000 with a 5 speed, > 4 wheel discs and a built 302? I'm saying this in the full realization that a car owner can do whatever he wants to his car but the fact that so many Tigers are modified way beyond the LAT options, in my humble opinion, affects the perceived value of a Sunbeam Tiger. Just about every British car show I go to has very few modified cars. As a matter of fact, most owners go to great lengths to keep their car "factory original". Just about every example of a Tiger I see in a magazine is modified/customized beyond what was available by Rootes back in the day. I try to keep mine as close to stock as possible because its rare to see a stock Tiger. There is one owner in Ann Arbor who, to her credit, drives her original 289 Cobra to car shows. I told her I was suprised to see a real Cobra at any show given how expensive they are. She replied that it is just car and she was't worried about damaging it. He also said that when it not being driven its parked next to her original 427 Cobra in the garage. I have seen the 289 on local roads occasionally but not the 427. Jeff From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 9 14:22:42 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:22:42 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Kill it, before it spreads! In-Reply-To: <001a01c7dac1$abadb5e0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> References: <001a01c7dac1$abadb5e0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <39a841b0708091322u735df37h20dedd29465c180d@mail.gmail.com> i don't know why i'm allowing myself to be dragged into this debate - but... i think the originally thing is more of a american fettish. in the uk, far more 'LBC's, as you call them, are either unrestored and 'fairly' original by nature of the fact that not much has been changed or are happily 'improved'. its always been like this - anyone racing their cars (traditionally at hillclimbs) would almost certainly be doing modifications. personally, while i appreciate people keeping originality alive, i'd be far happier to live with a modified car myself. On 8/9/07, Jeffrey Nichols wrote: > "the modification to the body shell made by hammer-wielding employees at > Jensen. " > > > Damn, this story never dies. No one at Jensen ever pounded the body shell of > a Tiger by a hammer. Jensen was too professional a business to let loose > workers with hammers wacking at 7,000+ cars for a major auto manufacturer. > The firewall was a die pressing. Check it out, you shouldn't see hammer marks > unless a DPO did it. > > > > I am amazed to here all of the complaining about the value of the Tiger. > > I searched for quite a while and finally found a rough but complete > > tiger, after about $25,000, countless hours I now have a complete 66 > > Tiger with the #'s matching drive train steel wheels and dog dish hub > > caps. Do you think the 289 Cobra would be worth $500,000 with a 5 speed, > > 4 wheel discs and a built 302? > > I'm saying this in the full realization that a car owner can do whatever he > wants to his car but the fact that so many Tigers are modified way beyond the > LAT options, in my humble opinion, affects the perceived value of a Sunbeam > Tiger. Just about every British car show I go to has very few modified cars. > As a matter of fact, most owners go to great lengths to keep their car > "factory original". Just about every example of a Tiger I see in a magazine > is modified/customized beyond what was available by Rootes back in the day. I > try to keep mine as close to stock as possible because its rare to see a stock > Tiger. > > > There is one owner in Ann Arbor who, to her credit, drives her original 289 > Cobra to car shows. I told her I was suprised to see a real Cobra at any show > given how expensive they are. She replied that it is just car and she was't > worried about damaging it. He also said that when it not being driven its > parked next to her original 427 Cobra in the garage. I have seen the 289 on > local roads occasionally but not the 427. > > > > > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From tgrrr at peoplepc.com Thu Aug 9 15:14:41 2007 From: tgrrr at peoplepc.com (Bob Hokanson) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:14:41 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Stock or Modified References: <001a01c7dac1$abadb5e0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> <39a841b0708091322u735df37h20dedd29465c180d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007301c7daca$4db9ce20$17ecf204@bob> > personally, while i appreciate people keeping originality alive, i'd > be far happier to live with a modified car myself. Here! Here! Couldn't agree with you more. Years ago we owned 2 Tigers... a modified Mk I and a nicely restored MK II. Eventually sold the Mk II, even though it was the nicer of the 2 cars, because the modified car was just too much more fun to drive. The stock Tiger was nice to look at but when it came to grabbing gears and turning tires there was no comparison. Bob H T-GRRR B9470168 322 ci of Weber-carbureted, roller-cammed, nitrous-injected, stroked Boss-block Ford on an adjustable coil-over, tubular A-arm, custom suspension. Not a ride for the faint-of-heart. From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 9 17:04:24 2007 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:04:24 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Kill it, before it spreads! Redux Message-ID: <001001c7dad9$a0f7eef0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> I've had a couple of emails from Tiger experts who said I am wrong and Jensen employees did wack with hammers on Tigers moving down the assembly line. I took the original comment to mean bashing out Alpine firewalls to fit the Ford engine and transmission as a standard practice at Jensen. In other words no die pressing for the firewall, just some guys with hammers flailing away at the metal. At least that is the story I am usually told in conversation which doesn't match the two dozen or more Tigers I've seen. Of course there maybe other Tigers that have Jensen bashed in Alpine firewalls that I have never seen. Another story I usually get asked about is what year did Chrysler put their V8 in the car. When I answer never, the other person is either surprised or starts a discussion that they have personal knowledge from a uncle, father, brother, etc. that indeed, Chrysler did put their engine in the car. Could there be some truth to the rumors of Chrysler engines in Tigers? Maybe we can start a thread on other Tiger folklore heard on the street. Jeff From mrlau at charter.net Thu Aug 9 17:09:41 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:09:41 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] FW: Kill it, before it spreads! Redux Message-ID: <20070809231122.SFR1254.aa04.charter.net@aardvark> The company I worked for had us at every car plant in the Midwest at one time or another and you would be surprised how many times a car was whacked in those days with a hammer to get something to fit. Only after we started installing robotics did that sort of thing diminish, but even now it is likely to get whacked if somehow it doesn't fit right. ---Bill --- I've had a couple of emails from Tiger experts who said I am wrong and Jensen employees did wack with hammers on Tigers moving down the assembly line. I took the original comment to mean bashing out Alpine firewalls to fit the Ford engine and transmission as a standard practice at Jensen. In other words no die pressing for the firewall, just some guys with hammers flailing away at the metal. At least that is the story I am usually told in conversation which doesn't match the two dozen or more Tigers I've seen. Of course there maybe other Tigers that have Jensen bashed in Alpine firewalls that I have never seen. Another story I usually get asked about is what year did Chrysler put their V8 in the car. When I answer never, the other person is either surprised or starts a discussion that they have personal knowledge from a uncle, father, brother, etc. that indeed, Chrysler did put their engine in the car. Could there be some truth to the rumors of Chrysler engines in Tigers? Maybe we can start a thread on other Tiger folklore heard on the street. From mrlau at charter.net Thu Aug 9 17:14:56 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 18:14:56 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Kill it, before it spreads! Redux In-Reply-To: <001001c7dad9$a0f7eef0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <20070809231637.TWBS7864.aa03.charter.net@aardvark> A Chrysler engine won't fit in the car because they had their distributor in the rear and would be in the heater box-hood latch. ---- Bill ---- I've had a couple of emails from Tiger experts who said I am wrong and Jensen employees did wack with hammers on Tigers moving down the assembly line. I took the original comment to mean bashing out Alpine firewalls to fit the Ford engine and transmission as a standard practice at Jensen. In other words no die pressing for the firewall, just some guys with hammers flailing away at the metal. At least that is the story I am usually told in conversation which doesn't match the two dozen or more Tigers I've seen. Of course there maybe other Tigers that have Jensen bashed in Alpine firewalls that I have never seen. Another story I usually get asked about is what year did Chrysler put their V8 in the car. When I answer never, the other person is either surprised or starts a discussion that they have personal knowledge from a uncle, father, brother, etc. that indeed, Chrysler did put their engine in the car. Could there be some truth to the rumors of Chrysler engines in Tigers? Maybe we can start a thread on other Tiger folklore heard on the street. From jimdamelio at cox.net Thu Aug 9 18:21:56 2007 From: jimdamelio at cox.net (Jim D'Amelio) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:21:56 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Kill it, before it spreads! In-Reply-To: <001a01c7dac1$abadb5e0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: I believe the hammer-wielding in the engine compartment story may have some truth to it. Of course the firewall was die pressed, but if you look closely at the frame rails you can see some evidence of what could be hammer marks. The frame rails right behind the back crossmember bolt sleeve and below the struts brace mounting plate looks to have been cut and beat over before welding. Was this a modifcation needed to clear the exhaust? Maybe this is something the TAC inspectors look for. I've included links to pictures of my frame rails. Jim D http://www.sunbeamtiger.net/images/LH_Frame_Rail.jpg http://www.sunbeamtiger.net/images/RH_Frame_Rail.jpg -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+jimdamelio=cox.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+jimdamelio=cox.net at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nichols Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 4:13 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Kill it, before it spreads! "the modification to the body shell made by hammer-wielding employees at Jensen. " Damn, this story never dies. No one at Jensen ever pounded the body shell of a Tiger by a hammer. Jensen was too professional a business to let loose workers with hammers wacking at 7,000+ cars for a major auto manufacturer. The firewall was a die pressing. Check it out, you shouldn't see hammer marks unless a DPO did it. I am amazed to here all of the complaining about the value of the Tiger. From atwittsend at verizon.net Thu Aug 9 18:27:20 2007 From: atwittsend at verizon.net (Thomas Witt) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 17:27:20 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Kill it, before it spreads! References: <001001c7dad9$a0f7eef0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <002601c7dae5$3797a700$0202a8c0@allinthefamily> > I've had a couple of emails from Tiger experts who said I am wrong and Jensen > employees did whack with hammers on Tigers moving down the assembly line. While it is obvious that the original Alpine firewall was NOT hammered out for the Ford engine I don't doubt that to get the larger part of the replacement transmission tunnel (actually more of a bell housing tunnel) to align in some instances it was hit with a hammer. Likely someone with little knowledge was walking through the shop, saw it and that's how these stories get started. >>> The inevitable guy whose 'Uncle had one'?? <<< Yea, and either every Tiger has changed hands 100 times or the secretly made 100,000 of them but somehow the Rootes Ledger never showed it. I'll bet the bulk of those "uncles" either had an Alpine or some other british car. Some recommendations: Get this type of discussion on "The View" or some other daytime talkshow and hash it out. Get Adam and Jamie to make it an episode of the "Myth Busters." Get a knowledgable person to write the "The Dummies Guide to the Sunbeam Tiger" :-) Tom Witt From jxnichols at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 9 18:55:16 2007 From: jxnichols at sbcglobal.net (Jeffrey Nichols) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:55:16 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Apologies to the DPO whomever it may be! Message-ID: <000c01c7dae9$1e2d5130$6501a8c0@your03667082de> "I believe the hammer-wielding in the engine compartment story may have some truth to it. Of course the firewall was die pressed, but if you look closely at the frame rails you can see some evidence of what could be hammer marks. The frame rails right behind the back crossmember bolt sleeve and below the struts brace mounting plate looks to have been cut and beat over before welding. Was this a modifcation needed to clear the exhaust? Maybe this is something the TAC inspectors look for. I've included links to pictures of my frame rails." That is the evidence that one of the noted Tiger experts gave to me of proof that Jensen workers cut and hammered on the car as it went down the line. All these years I have been blaming a DPO who didn't deserve it. DPO, I forgive you for the mangled frame but not for the rest of the things you did. Jeff From gswaybright at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 20:32:43 2007 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Chrysler engine myth In-Reply-To: <001001c7dad9$a0f7eef0$6501a8c0@your03667082de> Message-ID: <187034.29367.qm@web31707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> When I was buying a new Dakota back in the '90s, the old time Dodge salesman noticed my Tiger and during the ensuing conversation he was telling me that all Tigers came with Chrysler V8s. He absolutely would not believe otherwise. Too bad I didn't have a "Tiger - Powered by Ford" reference. I've had two or three other similar conversations. Stephen Waybright > Another story I usually get asked about is what year did Chrysler > put their > V8 in the car. When I answer never, the other person is either > surprised or > starts a discussion that they have personal knowledge from a uncle, > father, > brother, etc. that indeed, Chrysler did put their engine in the car. > Could > there be some truth to the rumors of Chrysler engines in Tigers? From rjw at wengco.com Fri Aug 10 05:55:00 2007 From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:55:00 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Engines Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C555851F@weco1.wengco.com> Chrysler wanted to put the 273 in the Tiger but the rear placement of the distributor would have required extensive modifications to the firewall so they sold the company; too bad. Bob From chris at cthompson.net Fri Aug 10 06:32:20 2007 From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:32:20 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] FW: Kill it, before it spreads! Redux In-Reply-To: <20070809231122.SFR1254.aa04.charter.net@aardvark> References: <20070809231122.SFR1254.aa04.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <46BC5AD4.8090403@cthompson.net> Indeed my E-type has a mis-formed rear tail-light fixture, and the body was whacked to conform to the shape of the fixture rather than the builder grabbing another off the shelf. And it's a 99 point concours car. But the story of Jensen whacking Alpine tranny tunnels has long been discredited. I think the story of Lord Rootes test driving the Tiger with the handbrake on has also been written off. To put my two bits in on the "value" thread, I own a lot of cars, but my totally stock Tiger is by far my favorite and it would be the last car I would sell. I couldn't care less what it's worth to someone else. Chris B382000331 William Lau wrote: > The company I worked for had us at every car plant in the Midwest at one > time or another and you would be surprised how many times a car was whacked > in those days with a hammer to get something to fit. Only after we started > installing robotics did that sort of thing diminish, but even now it is > likely to get whacked if somehow it doesn't fit right. ---Bill --- From un-cole-a at juno.com Fri Aug 10 08:16:03 2007 From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:16:03 GMT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: <20070810.101603.13863.0@webmail16.lax.untd.com> When you start a restoration is there any specific way you should dismantle the car or is it just tag and bag until the job is completed?? Like wise, when the time comes to reassemble the car is there a sequence you should follow to put it back together?? Considering the knowledge that is on this form has anyone thought about writing a book about restoring Tigers?? And if the book already exists I'm not aware of it. If it does exists can someone tell me where to find it. Should you have your Tiger "Tac" before or after a restoration? Tim B9470149 From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Fri Aug 10 08:33:28 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:33:28 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108B85@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Probably the best thing to do is to keep a log and take pictures of everything (on the car) as you disassemble it. Digital storage is cheap... You could buy a laptop (for the price of an OEM air cleaner housing) and type notes and upload digital cam pictures as you do the work on the car. A lot of the reassembly steps can be done in various orders depending on what you have ready to go. Theo From Drmoonstone at aol.com Fri Aug 10 10:35:44 2007 From: Drmoonstone at aol.com (Drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:35:44 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Engines Message-ID: I believe that it was the width of the 273 that made it unsuitable. Moonstone ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From un-cole-a at juno.com Fri Aug 10 11:56:23 2007 From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:56:23 GMT Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) Message-ID: <20070810.135623.10235.0@webmail22.lax.untd.com> Stephen And all others that answered my questions First, thanks for all the replies. I have waited so long for this Tiger I just don't want to screw this restoration up. I think you all can sympathize with me on that point. Norm does have all the info on the car and has confirmed he does believe it's a true Tiger, so the TAC was something extra I thought I would get done. Does anyone know of a collector car appraiser that is located in or near southern NJ and is familiar will Tigers? Tim B9470149 From mrlau at charter.net Fri Aug 10 13:24:05 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:24:05 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20070810.135623.10235.0@webmail22.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <20070810192546.ZZIO7864.aa03.charter.net@aardvark> Stephen, If someone around you has an Alpine, look at the way the battery box is installed in the back seat area and then look under your car. It would be obvious to you if it was replaced. Other than that take a lot of pictures as someone else suggested and get all of the books you can get and study the parts manuals available on line and elsewhere. If someone else has a nice Tiger that you are sure is correct take pictures of it. Most of the people on this site will send you pictures of different parts of their Tiger if you just ask. -- Bill -- Stephen And all others that answered my questions First, thanks for all the replies. I have waited so long for this Tiger I just don't want to screw this restoration up. I think you all can sympathize with me on that point. Norm does have all the info on the car and has confirmed he does believe it's a true Tiger, so the TAC was something extra I thought I would get done. Does anyone know of a collector car appraiser that is located in or near southern NJ and is familiar will Tigers? Tim B9470149 _______________________________________________ From DJoh797014 at aol.com Fri Aug 10 15:57:07 2007 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:57:07 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Chrysler engine myth Message-ID: I think the myth can be traced back to Mike Taylor's "Making of the Tiger' One of the last chapters covers 'Tigers to be'. Interesting drawings on what the Tiger would become. Including the Chrysler V8 These cars were just drawings. Dave ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mrlau at charter.net Fri Aug 10 17:11:49 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:11:49 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Chrysler engine myth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070810231330.GLGW26124.aa02.charter.net@aardvark> I think you are right Dave. First are the dreamers, second are the artists making drawings and third are the engineers telling them it can't be done however all three are needed to eventually get something done. -- Bill -- I think the myth can be traced back to Mike Taylor's "Making of the Tiger' One of the last chapters covers 'Tigers to be'. Interesting drawings on what the Tiger would become. Including the Chrysler V8 These cars were just drawings. Dave From stubrennan at comcast.net Fri Aug 10 17:28:28 2007 From: stubrennan at comcast.net (stubrennan at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 23:28:28 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Chrysler engine myth Message-ID: <081020072328.6618.46BCF49C00099EDE000019DA2200761064020E02020A9D0D9A9B9C@comcast.net> I seem to remember that at SUNI 2 in Wisconsin, there was supposedly a mid '60's Rootes sedan, the exact ID I don't remember, that had a Chrysler V8 in it. There was some story about it being a factory prototype of a project that never happened. Anybody have a better memory? Stu From mrlau at charter.net Fri Aug 10 17:37:49 2007 From: mrlau at charter.net (William Lau) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:37:49 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers] Chrysler engine myth In-Reply-To: <081020072328.6618.46BCF49C00099EDE000019DA2200761064020E02020A9D0D9A9B9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20070810233930.LFTA7864.aa03.charter.net@aardvark> Here is a link if anyone has the time that tells about Chryslers connection with Rootes and selling cars in England and Australia. I wonder if the car you are talking about was right hand drive. -- Bill -- http://www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/aussie-chry.html I seem to remember that at SUNI 2 in Wisconsin, there was supposedly a mid '60's Rootes sedan, the exact ID I don't remember, that had a Chrysler V8 in it. There was some story about it being a factory prototype of a project that never happened. Anybody have a better memory? Stu From itswonderful at comcast.net Fri Aug 10 17:56:47 2007 From: itswonderful at comcast.net (Frank P. Marrone) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:56:47 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers] Chrysler engine myth In-Reply-To: <20070810233930.LFTA7864.aa03.charter.net@aardvark> References: <081020072328.6618.46BCF49C00099EDE000019DA2200761064020E02020A9D0D9A9B9C@comcast.net> <20070810233930.LFTA7864.aa03.charter.net@aardvark> Message-ID: <004801c7dbaa$1cc64e70$0801a8c0@FPMengineering> I'm probably suffering from a foggy memory and the book is in storage right now so I can't check but doesn't Taylors book show a (not a Tiger) Rootes product with a Chrysler V8 in it? Frank > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+itswonderful=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf > Of William Lau > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 4:38 PM > To: Tigers at Autox. Team. Net > Subject: [Tigers] Tigers] Chrysler engine myth > > Here is a link if anyone has the time that tells about Chryslers > connection > with Rootes and selling cars in England and Australia. I wonder if the > car > you are talking about was right hand drive. -- Bill -- > > > > http://www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/aussie-chry.html > > > > I seem to remember that at SUNI 2 in Wisconsin, there was supposedly a mid > '60's Rootes sedan, the exact ID I don't remember, that had a Chrysler V8 > in > it. There was some story about it being a factory prototype of a project > that never happened. Anybody have a better memory? > > Stu > _______________________________________________ > itswonderful at comcast.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From jaars at emailmv.com Sat Aug 11 12:16:17 2007 From: jaars at emailmv.com (Robert Jaarsma) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:16:17 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 44 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c7dc43$b9e37680$736d7dc7@userqlmt4f4s6s> Stu, That was a Humber Super Snipe sedan. Robert stubrennan at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Chrysler engine myth I seem to remember that at SUNI 2 in Wisconsin, there was supposedly a mid '60's Rootes sedan, the exact ID I don't remember, that had a Chrysler V8 in it. There was some story about it being a factory prototype of a project that never happened. Anybody have a better memory? Stu From actynes at charter.net Sat Aug 11 23:17:07 2007 From: actynes at charter.net (A. C. Tynes) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 00:17:07 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Additional T-5 info Message-ID: <001601c7dca0$0a5c55d0$8a3c5147@DellD4700> I was reminded tonight about another alternative for installing a T-5 trans in a Tiger. That transmission was also used in Chevys, including the S10 pickup. An S10 tail housing can be installed on a Mustang T-5, which will move the shift lever several inches forward. Again, I don't have the Tiger measurements, but with the engine set as far back as it is in relation to the driver, having the ability to move the shift lever forward sound like a good thing. A.C. Tynes New Orleans From CoolVT at aol.com Sun Aug 12 05:26:59 2007 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:26:59 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Healy V8 location Message-ID: I attended a car show yesterday and there was an Austin Healy 3000 with a Ford 289. I kept studying it trying to figure why there seemed to be so much more space in the engine bay when compared to the Tiger. First, the front wheels on the Healy appear to be set more toward the front of the car by a good 6" when compared to a Tiger. Secondly, there appears to be less needed supporting structure elements under the hood of the car in a Healy. It appears that the strength of the body comes from the outer shell. It has a very small hood opening area and the more massive body shell around this area appears to provide the strength. Pulling the valve covers on this thing would be a breeze. Of course, this was a conversion into a V8 and who knows how good the body strength and handling actually are. On another note...I saw a few Studebaker Avantis again. I am still puzzled by the series of 5 or 6 half dollar sized holes that are punched in the metal between the engine compartment and the wheel well. It seems that they must be for cooling, but are unusual. I wonder if there is any Tiger application possibilities there. Mark L. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Carmods at aol.com Sun Aug 12 07:17:39 2007 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:17:39 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Additional T-5 info Message-ID: A.C. Tynes says, "I was reminded tonight about another alternative for installing a T-5 trans in a Tiger. That transmission was also used in Chevys, including the S10 pickup." The T-5 for the S-10 Pick-up is not the "World Class" transmission and therefore has a lot of bushing type bearings instead of roller bearings. The tail shaft housing however will fit on the World Class transmissions. Modifications will be required for the speedo drive. John Logan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From srwick at hotmail.com Sun Aug 12 11:45:25 2007 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:45:25 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Healy V8 location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Might they have been to access the spark plugs for changing them. I've seen guys with 428 Mustangs do that, rather than lift the engine every time. Steve >From: CoolVT at aol.com >To: tigers at autox.team.net >Subject: [Tigers] Healy V8 location >Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:26:59 EDT > > >On another note...I saw a few Studebaker Avantis again. I am still >puzzled >by the series of 5 or 6 half dollar sized holes that are punched in the >metal >between the engine compartment and the wheel well. It seems that they >must >be for cooling, but are unusual. I wonder if there is any Tiger >application >possibilities there. >Mark L. From CMcCann at lwpb.com Sun Aug 12 13:37:53 2007 From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:37:53 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Additional T-5 info References: <001601c7dca0$0a5c55d0$8a3c5147@DellD4700> Message-ID: Just backing up A.C's thoughts on the s10 tailhousing swap..... I read about that in an article and then purchased a T5 out of an s10 on ebay, very cheap. i plan to do a tailshaft swap on it to locate in closer to the Tiger's shifter hole. the shifter is centered on the transmission, left to right, not off center to the left like the original, but its final location is very close. I think I can use a custom shifter handle to get the location further left. I have test fit it in my tiger and it doesnt require tunnel mods due to the slenderness of the tailshaft. so far so good. Thanks, Cullen oklahoma city b283001452 ------------------------------ I was reminded tonight about another alternative for installing a T-5 trans in a Tiger. That transmission was also used in Chevys, including the S10 pickup. An S10 tail housing can be installed on a Mustang T-5, which will move the shift lever several inches forward. Again, I don't have the Tiger measurements, but with the engine set as far back as it is in relation to the driver, having the ability to move the shift lever forward sound like a good thing. From Carmods at aol.com Sun Aug 12 13:52:20 2007 From: Carmods at aol.com (Carmods at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:52:20 EDT Subject: [Tigers] T-5 in Tigers Message-ID: Steve Coleman says, So a S-10 tail shaft will fit on the World Class transmissions. Year of S-10 tail shaft, part# of World Class trans to use? You could start a new thread for plenty of talk. I believe any Chevy S-10 tail shaft housing will fit any T-5. The problem comes in adapting the speedometer drive to connect with the driving gear on the Mustang WC T-5 output shaft. There are S-10 tail shaft housings for the older mechanical speedo drives and also the newer electronic pick-ups. My son converts either housing to match the WC T-5 when he has time. I have wanted to see if the Chevy output shaft can be used in the WC T-5 with the S-10 housing so that the Chevy speedo gears could be used. Does anyone know? John ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From MWood24020 at aol.com Sun Aug 12 14:44:45 2007 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 16:44:45 EDT Subject: [Tigers] T-5 in Tigers Message-ID: Or, you could avoid the amount of effort and time involved in sourcing the "unobtaniumj" S-10 tail shaft and other kluges involved in this solution and just get a correctly engineered T-5 conversion kit from Tom Hall ;-) Mike Wood ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From garywinblad at comcast.net Mon Aug 13 16:18:34 2007 From: garywinblad at comcast.net (garywinblad at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:18:34 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] T-5 in Tigers Message-ID: <081320072218.14807.46C0D8BA000878DB000039D722165258060B0E040D020799979D0E09@comcast.net> Or, you could cut about 1inch of the Tiger and put in ANY Mustang or Motorsport T-5. Probably $300 (and up...) AND, this will put the shifter in the CORRECT position (in line with the steering wheel). Hacksaw Gary -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: MWood24020 at aol.com > Or, you could avoid the amount of effort and time involved in sourcing the > "unobtaniumj" S-10 tail shaft and other kluges involved in this solution and > just get a correctly engineered T-5 conversion kit from Tom Hall ;-) > > Mike Wood From CMcCann at lwpb.com Mon Aug 13 16:34:53 2007 From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:34:53 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger left hand drive vs. right hand drive config. Message-ID: Fellow Tiger..ers... I have a question, and maybe this is a good one for Norm if you're listening...I don't think I've seen an HRO car up close, and if I have, I doubt I would have noticed this. Were there differences in the shifter location for the right hand drive domestic sales cars over the cars for export? in other words, since the shifter hole is offset to the left in a left hand drive car, in an HRO car, this would put the shifter even farther from the driver. I suppose a totally different transmission configuration would have been necessary to accomplish this, which I've never seen. I may have answered my own question. It just seems odd that the shifter that far away ( 3 or 4 inches?) would have been acceptable. Thanks! Cullen b382001452 From tsmit at shaw.ca Mon Aug 13 21:49:46 2007 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:49:46 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Mayf at Bonneville Message-ID: <46C1265A.90908@shaw.ca> Looks like Dr. Mayf went 172 on the short course on Saturday, didn't run yesterday. Go Mayf! He may not have the fastest Sunbeam ever (yet) but he's certainly near or at the top of currently running Sunbeams. Results are being updated at http://www.scta-bni.org/ Best regards all, Theo From un-cole-a at juno.com Tue Aug 14 10:29:19 2007 From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:29:19 GMT Subject: [Tigers] Calipers, MC, Booster Message-ID: <20070814.122919.13268.0@webmail18.lax.untd.com> Need to rebuild these items: Front Calipers, MC, Booster. Need to send out for rebuild because I am not set up to do them, any suggestions on re-builders? I guess a question is also how difficult are the rebuilds? I may be able to do them but I feel a more experienced person should rebuild them. Tim B9470149 From CMcCann at lwpb.com Tue Aug 14 10:32:53 2007 From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:32:53 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Calipers, MC, Booster In-Reply-To: <20070814.122919.13268.0@webmail18.lax.untd.com> References: <20070814.122919.13268.0@webmail18.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: I seem to recall that Bill Martin at RGD will do the mc and booster, I would definitely trust him to do it. He might also the calipers. "Need to rebuild these items: Front Calipers, MC, Booster." Cullen McCann From tigerfixer at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 15:03:12 2007 From: tigerfixer at yahoo.com (Bill Martin) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Historics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <952591.12172.qm@web52311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sorry to Bomb! Dave Stone will be driving the Hollywood Sport Cars Tiger at the Monterey Historics this coming weekend. The group will run twice on Thursday (Practice) and on Saturday (11:00am and 3:30pm or so) It will not run on Friday or sunday so if you come down to the event drop on by the pits. Buck and Claudia Tripple are in as well as Dave Lipski and we are all pitted together. Our pit is located right across from the food stand. Hope to see you there. Oh, at the pre historics last weekend Dave did great judging from the big grin on his face. His best lap was a 1:50 wich is about mid pack in the big bore group and very respectable. Hope to see some of you there. Bill ____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz From trippel at peoplepc.com Tue Aug 14 19:36:11 2007 From: trippel at peoplepc.com (trippel at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Historics References: <952591.12172.qm@web52311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c7dedc$ab9f6570$a2985142@trippel> Not to quibble, Bill, but I had Dave Stone turning a series of 1:49s which is even better than the 1:50 you caught. In Sunday's race, I think Dave gridded 17th out of 24 cars. He moved up to 10th by the finish. Dave and the HSC Tiger were really looking great! Looking forward to seeing many of you at the Historics this weekend. As Bill mentioned, please feel free to stop by & hang out. Buck Trippel From: "Bill Martin" Subject: [Tigers] Monterey Historics > ... at the pre historics last > weekend Dave did great judging from the big grin on > his face. His best lap was a 1:50 wich is about mid > pack in the big bore group and very respectable. Hope > to see some of you there. > Bill From Rollright at aol.com Wed Aug 15 14:14:11 2007 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:14:11 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 48 Message-ID: Hello, PLEASE, please please, get some pictures of the event with the Hollywood Sports Car Tiger (to me the most beautiful Tiger ever) rampent. Lots of pictures, especially passing GT 350's and Cobras ! Best of luck, teams. Jim Armstrong rollright at aol.com Mk1A #382002083 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com Wed Aug 15 16:53:31 2007 From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:53:31 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Hollywood Sportscar Tiger at Monterey Message-ID: I can add that I was at the pre-Historics last Saturday for the qualifying race. The Tiger was strongly in the lead of ALL Cobras and Mustangs - except for the Daytona Cobra and I think a Ferrari. It was so cool to watch. Unfortunately, he must have had a run in with some dirt as he dropped about 5 places on the next to last lap. But, it was so cool to see it doing so well, lap after lap with the Cobras on its tail. Jay ====================================================================== Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession. ====================================================================== From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Wed Aug 15 17:03:48 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:03:48 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Hollywood Sportscar Tiger at Monterey Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F6AB@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> That's sweet! Wish I could have seen it. I'm heading to Pebble Beach on Friday, but couldn't get out of work to see the races. My old man has a 1937 AC 16/80 at the Concours. If the Ace is the father of the Cobra, then the 16/80 is the grand-daddy. Maybe great grand-daddy! ----- Original Message ----- From: tigers-bounces+wsteinman=pogolaw.com at autox.team.net To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Wed Aug 15 18:53:31 2007 Subject: [Tigers] Hollywood Sportscar Tiger at Monterey I can add that I was at the pre-Historics last Saturday for the qualifying race. The Tiger was strongly in the lead of ALL Cobras and Mustangs - except for the Daytona Cobra and I think a Ferrari. It was so cool to watch. Unfortunately, he must have had a run in with some dirt as he dropped about 5 places on the next to last lap. But, it was so cool to see it doing so well, lap after lap with the Cobras on its tail. Jay ====================================================================== Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession. ====================================================================== _______________________________________________ wsteinman at pogolaw.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From maliburevue at yahoo.com Wed Aug 15 23:44:22 2007 From: maliburevue at yahoo.com (Gary Crandall) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Crank Pulley Size Message-ID: <219062.78710.qm@web33211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Can someone tell me the correct size for the stock crank pulley, part number, diameter and depth? Thanks. --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. From wwwdg at webtv.net Thu Aug 16 10:06:43 2007 From: wwwdg at webtv.net (David or Gary) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:06:43 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Crank Pulley Size In-Reply-To: Gary Crandall 's message of Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Rootes # 6100031, Ford part number is C4JZ-6312-A, only industrial Ford Truck dealers could order this part about 20 years ago. Dia. is about 6 1/16", Depth 1 7/16 (face to rear) and from the center of the belt groove to the rear mounting surface 1 1/8". You won't find this pulley on anything but a Tiger or an old Ford industrial engine. David Franchi From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Thu Aug 16 10:17:01 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:17:01 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Crank Pulley Size Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BA1@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Hi all, I found one (or one very much like it) on a V8 Maverick... I'll check the dimensions and part # at home tonight if you like. Theo You won't find this pulley on anything but a Tiger or an old Ford industrial engine. David Franchi From jrv309 at charter.net Thu Aug 16 16:57:56 2007 From: jrv309 at charter.net (Jerry and Marlene VanderPool) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:57:56 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Mk1a Heater control valve? Message-ID: <000801c7e058$e2cc9270$6400a8c0@D8T0X571> Greetings all from Oregon. I know that this has been discussed many times, but my heater control valve sprung a leak and I need a new one. Rick only shows one for a Alpine and a Mk1. Any new info on sources and or part numbers? Thanks for the help. Jerry and Marlene with the Candy Apple Tiger. From dickbarker at earthlink.net Fri Aug 17 12:36:19 2007 From: dickbarker at earthlink.net (Dick Barker) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:36:19 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Mk1a Heater control valve? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:00 AM 8/17/2007, Jerry VanderPool wrote: >Mk1a Heater control valve? ---------- Jerry, Try Curt Meinel at Classic Sunbeam Auto Parts at: http://classicsunbeam.com/ Also see his current auction on eBay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sunbeam-Alpine-V-Tiger-IA-Tiger-II-water-valve_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10076QQihZ013QQitemZ230160568895QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Dick From Rollright at aol.com Fri Aug 17 12:54:51 2007 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:54:51 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 50 Message-ID: Wasn't there somebody in Florida that rebuilt them? Jim Armstrong rollright at aol.com Mk1A #382002083 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Aug 17 14:33:34 2007 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:33:34 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Speed Week on the Salt, next Version, lol.. Message-ID: <46C6061E.7050906@mayfco.com> Part 1 Yesterday, I tried to get everyone a quick dump of how the meet went. Now I will take a bit more time and try and give you a better feel. The meet was iffy to begin with. When we arrived, we had to cross maybe 200 yards of very salty water just to get oof the end of the asphalt road out onto something akin to dry salt. But it was very wet and stuck to tires and just about anything it touched. Especially your shoes when you walked on it. We arrived Thursday afternoon about 1 pm and It was announced that on Saturday they would determine whether or nbot it was safe enough to race on. But we went and obtained our drivers and pit wrist bands and then took the car through tech. Tech was very quick, only about 20 minutes. Covered the car and left the salt. Day 2 was mostly spent just looking at the cars and remaking old friendships. Looked at teh Ford and Ohio State Hydrogen/Electric cars (one of my friends was driving the Ford Fusion). Nothing doing yet about racing. Saturday we had the mandatory driver's meeting. They made the decision to race! We went back to the car and checked oput everything, fueled it, ran the laptop battery down, checked the tires, water, etc. and headed to the staging lanes. not a long wait on the first day and we made our first run at about 172 mph. Remember last year the max speed was 158.9 mph. Now we were up to 172! Enough for the "B" license if I wanted to go and get it. However the 172 was an issue because when I back calculated to the car's ECU speed limiter, it looked like I hit the limiter! Bummer. So I unhooked the speed sensor from the ECU. Also go no data on that first run. Wish I had, it migh have shown the beginnings of what ever caused the motor to not run well later. Checked the plugs and found the front and back 2 pairs (ie 1, 5, 4, 8) really fouled with the middle ones really good. I figured that this was the way that the limiter limited speed, maybe pulling spark from those cylinders. Up with the chickens on Sunday, breakfast at the Mex food place and then onto the salt. We must have used a 1000 pounds of ice and 5 cases of bottled water...Really hot and muggy due to all the salt water. But the salt was getting better! Made preparations for the next run: gas, water, air, battery, laptop, etc. Towed down to the staging lanes and it took a bit longer to get to run. More cars and bikes in line. When it was getting close to my turn, I fired up the ECU in the car and the laptop. In this mode, it just takes static data like temps and baro pressure. But it is ready as soon as I fire the engine. Well, I will go to part 2.. mayf From sfranklin at tds.net Fri Aug 17 14:51:22 2007 From: sfranklin at tds.net (sfranklin at tds.net) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:51:22 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger in Lansing Mi Message-ID: <20070817155122.DYAKR.207009.root@webfep12> I saw a BRG tiger with rollbar on the west side of Lansing today,anyone know who this could be? Steve Franklin 67 MKII Tiger 65 EType FHC From jrv309 at charter.net Fri Aug 17 15:26:35 2007 From: jrv309 at charter.net (Jerry and Marlene VanderPool) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:26:35 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Thanks All! Message-ID: <002601c7e115$4a946330$6400a8c0@D8T0X571> Thanks to all of you in Tiger land! We received a great deal of help on the replacement of the heater control valve. General opinion was Curt at Classic Sunbeam was the best source, so we have ordered it from him. Thanks to all again and if we can ever be of help to anyone, please let us know. Jerry and Marlene. From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 18 13:55:17 2007 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tiger man) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:55:17 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Automatic transmissions? Message-ID: Hi all, Just digging through some boxes of parts that came with my tiger a couple of years ago, and in a box that contains what looks like an Alpine 4cyl distributor, and a starter that I can only guess is for a Alpine, and some steering component I don't recognize, I found a floor mounted automatic transmission shifter. Did the tiger or alpine ever come with an automatic transmission, or is this just a completely wrong part hanging out in my parts boxes. If the shifter is not for an Alpine, the whole box of parts may be suspect as for some other vehicle. Anyway if anyone is curious, I can try to post some pics of the parts and we can play an interesting game of "What the heck is this" Thanks, Steve From DJoh797014 at aol.com Sat Aug 18 14:01:57 2007 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:01:57 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Automatic transmissions? Message-ID: Series IV Alpines could be ordered with a Borg Warner 2 speed automatic. Performance was less than stellar. Dve ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Sun Aug 19 12:07:08 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:07:08 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] The Original Tiger Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F6F1@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> Well, gang, I'm here at Pebble Beach with my dad's 1937 AC, and the original Sunbeam Tiger (as in the 1925 record setter) is here. Wow. NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 19 12:31:39 2007 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tiger man) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:31:39 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Automatic transmissions? References: <000001c7e271$16bb3d60$91961840@ronpc1> Message-ID: The shifter that is sitting in my parts box has the pattern you mention, but only on the left side. The shifter assembly is all metal and covered in surface rust, and has that pattern in the metal base. I am more use to the Mustang application that has seperate plastic and fake chrome bezel that is overtop of the metal assembly. I would think that this shifter would look a bit unfinished in a car with just unfinished metal exposed. The 4cyl distributor that is in the box says Lucas on the vacuum diaphram and in the metal casting and has a part # of 40942A and 164 below it. Does anyone know if this belongs to an alpine? The person I bought the car from had a wide variety of tastes in cars, so I almost wonder if this box of parts was for another car. Thanks, Steve Steve The information I have is that a Borg Warner type 35, 3 speed, automatic transmission was an option for the Alpine. The shifter bezel should have P R N D L on both sides of the shifter, makes it visible for both left and right hand drive cars. The Tiger never had an automatic as an option but several articles have been written about installing an automatic into a Tiger and I have seen one of them. Ron Fraser Hi all, Just digging through some boxes of parts that came with my tiger a couple of years ago, and in a box that contains what looks like an Alpine 4cyl distributor, and a starter that I can only guess is for a Alpine, and some steering component I don't recognize, I found a floor mounted automatic transmission shifter. Did the tiger or alpine ever come with an automatic transmission, or is this just a completely wrong part hanging out in my parts boxes. If the shifter is not for an Alpine, the whole box of parts may be suspect as for some other vehicle. Anyway if anyone is curious, I can try to post some pics of the parts and we can play an interesting game of "What the heck is this" Thanks, Steve From drmayf at mayfco.com Thu Aug 16 19:14:56 2007 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:14:56 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Back From The Salt Wars... Message-ID: <46C4F690.5060205@mayfco.com> Well, the wife and I rolled in just a few minutes ago. There were goods and bads. For the LSR folk, the meet went very well. It was all due to the absolutely professional attitudes and never say die mentality of the volunteers. When we arrived, the water was everywhere.Sticky salt on everything. Courses were damp as were the pits. But they got better and better all due to the effort of the volunteers. I say thanks to each and every one of you no matter what poart you played in this years Speed WeeK! M hat is off to you all!. Tweecer folk; the car ran 172.5 mph or so right out of the gate. But you know what? That is the speed at which the computer says you are going fast enough (when you use my gear ratio and tire size itr comes exactly to this). The speed limiters even though set at 127.5 in each scalar cell did not turn it off! Even the littl ebox I added to cut the number of pulses in half did not work because it apparently resets itself to default when all power is removed. Umplugging the VSS did the trick. Now for the good news. After I removed the VSS I was able to get to 184 and change. Boost was high at 16 psig and somewhere I started loosing metered air. AFRs went to 9.5 , load x went to 199.99 and load was into the 150's. Injectors went into 100 percent duty cycle for a while. Max Pulse widths apparently. Right after the 184, the motor nosed over a bit and ran a solid 175 in the last mile, 3 mile for me. When I looked at the data log it was apparent that it wasn't notmal. Found a bad gasket at the TB to Turbo hat, fixed that and that wasn't it. Still loosing metered air somewhere. Plugs look like chimney soot all over them, lol. My turbo bonnes is no longer a flat bottom sauce pan as it now has a rounded bottom, lol. I will post the config file for the A9P I used for this run as well as the high boost data log and the one following it. Maybe some of you folk have some ideas. I really need to get this sorted some before World of Speed next month. Ike, Dan, Sailor Bob, you guys up for helping me out here. Time is short and I have a basket of things I need to fix that are mechanical (one is getting several hundred pounds of salt off the truck trailer and car, lol). For the Tiger and Alpine folk. I did pretty good all things considering. I managed my B license, got my long course approval and had a heck of a time. Met a number of you who stopped by and in general, had a dang good time! The car ran pretty well cond-sidering it was so rich that it as blowing black smoke like a diesel. But heck, that is safe so I prolly didn't hurt anything. I was geared for a record run,. but it would not run well on the return run, so bummer. But I'll tak 184and change for a top speed for the car! It was due in part to the well wishes you all sent! I need some reall trouble shooting thoughts on where the air is going after the turbos. Thoughts? Ideas? Anything will help. I have considered the gasket beween the tb and base plate, the gasket between the base plate and the manifold, and intake manifold gaskets. Any other ideas? more later...pooped out right now... mayf From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Aug 17 15:00:12 2007 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:00:12 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Speed Week, next version, Part 2 Message-ID: <46C60C5C.9080500@mayfco.com> Part 2. As I got close to the start line, I finished getting ready to run. Let me tell you, that an SFI 20 fire suit, Funny Car SFI 15 booties, a head sock, a helmet and Funny car drivers gloves in 100+ degree heat is very hot! I nearly had a meltdown, lol. When we get to the line, the starter takes a pull on the straps, asks if you are ready and when the course is clear, tells you to start it up. Turn the fuel on, hit the starter, burbles to life. Turn on the radiator pump and the water transfer pump. All the gauges look good. As the waves me off, I pulled the tranny shift down into the 1,2,3 gear set without overdrive. Still leary about that after last year, lol. Off I go. Course is rough. Motor pulls like a son of a gun! I made it to about 5300 rpm very quickly in 3rd gear which is over 180 mph. Ran through the 2 to 2 1/4 mile trap at 184 and the rpm dropped just abit to about 5100 rpm. This was around 175 mph and that held through the 3rd mile.. As soon as I hit mile three marker, I pulled the chute. Man, hits pretty hard. 175 to about 40 mph in about 3/8s of a mile. Turned out to the return road. Pulled all of that hot fire suit off and gathered up the chute and put it into the car. Tow is there now. We took the car to impound because at that time there was no record for the class I was in. Did all the things necessary to run next morning. Grabbed the laptop and headed to the motel where I printed out all the data. It showed the high boost, high injector duty cycles, etc. And the little dip in rpm. I thought we had a record even if it would hold up for only a day or 2. Got up next morning for the return record run. Pulled down to the start and waited our turn as there were 80 cars and bikes that had qualified to make record runs. We set up like before and started exactly the same....except the car simply would not run and we turned out before we got to the 3 mile marker. No record for us. Back to the pits where we started looking for problems. Pulled the plugs and they were very sooty and showed evidence of being very very rich. Removed the throttle body top hat where boost air comes in and there was a bad gasket. big piece of it missing. Went through the motor. Silicone so I don't think it hurt anything. Put in 1/8 inch of paper gaskets that we made on the sport, added some high temp silicone pucky and put it all back in place. Let all that set up over night. Next day, which was Wednesday by now, we tried again. This time, top speed was only 118 mph, so I gave up and turned out. Didn't even have to pull the chute... 4 runs and we were done. But what fun! Roger Davis came by a couple of times with his sound recording apparatus and chatted. Then we met an Australian man who had brought his red tiger through the salt water and joined us in our pit! Very nice gentleman and I have his name somewhere.... Absolutley gorgeous Tiger, Red. We have pictures of it and our car together. I plan on making a cd of every picture taken in the construction and running of this car, so hang with me to see the pictures. Some are made by really good photogs (not me, lol). We had a great time except for the miserable heat. I wish I had met more of you there but it was an iffy meet to begin with. Right now, I am in the throes of trying to find out what went wrong and getting salt off of everything. There is a LOT of salt on everything! If I can get the trouble shooting done and fix a few things, then we will go to World of Speed starting on the 11th of September. But I do have a lot to get done before then. Keep posted! And thanks to each and everyone of you for your support and well wishes. This is a Team Beam effort and you are all part of it! mayf From prbreuhan at hotmail.com Sun Aug 19 22:46:37 2007 From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:46:37 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger Speedometer Part Wanted... In-Reply-To: <46C915EA.30708@optonline.net> Message-ID: Hello All, A while back I bought a Tiger Speedometer off of Ebay (at a premium price) and now I am just getting around to putting my dash board together. And wouldn't you know it's not in working order...the plastic gear that drives the odometer is cracked and split apart so it binds up on the metal worm gear. A picture can be found here... http://www.breuhan.com/badgear.jpg The plastic gear is on a metal shaft and is held on by a little metal clip. So I am in need of this part...anyone out there in Sunbeamland with a speedo in pieces (or non working) that could help me out? Also I wondered if a gear from Alpine 120 mph speedo would work? (so if anyone had one of those hanging around) Thanks in advance to everyone, Paul _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From trippel at peoplepc.com Mon Aug 20 03:36:57 2007 From: trippel at peoplepc.com (trippel at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 02:36:57 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Hollywood Sportscar Tiger at Monterey References: Message-ID: <00be01c7e30d$a85ebed0$97975142@trippel> Well Jay, you're right about how the white (#74 Sports Car Forum) Tiger dropped 5 places. It went into the dirt at the start of the main straight when the brakes decided to take a short vacation.(Not their last.) We ended that race in 9th. On Sunday's race in the Pre Historics we placed 4th. The black Hollywood Tiger ended up in 10th followed by Dave Lipski's red Tiger in 16th. The same 3 Tigers ran in the Monterey Historics this weekend. The weather was perfect and just a bit warmer than the previous weekend. As usual, John Morton did a spectacular job driving our #74 Tiger. He managed to grid the car 3rd (a bit down from last year's "Pole" due to much stronger competition). He finished this year's Historics in 5th despite having serious brake problems. (By the way, we never would have made it to the grid if Dan Walters had not been able to make an incredibly quick emergency change of both brake rotors shortly before race time. Thanks Dan!) Dave Lipski's red Tiger (I believe running a real 260) gridded 33rd but worked up to finish 25th. Due to wheel problems, Dave Stone's HSC Tiger did not run during the qualification session. Since the race grid is determined by lap times during qualification, Dave had to start at the back of the field. This officially placed him 35th. Unfortunately a blown tire put him out of the race after only two laps. Our pits were "swarmed" all weekend. I've never seen anything like it. Notables included Ron Dykes, Pete Brock, Phil Remington, Kerry Agapiou (Shelby American mechanic), Dennis Swan (Hollywood Sports Cars mechanic who worked on the HSC Tiger for Doanne). Tiger road racers who helped out over the weekend included Dan Walters, Tom Sakai, Steve Sorensen and Al Denson. And (except for a "United" or a "Suni") I've never seen so many Tiger owners at one event. Thanks to all for your support and kind words. Buck Trippel #74 Sports Car Forum Tiger ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: [Tigers] Hollywood Sportscar Tiger at Monterey > I can add that I was at the pre-Historics last Saturday for the qualifying > race. The Tiger was strongly in the lead of ALL Cobras and Mustangs - > except for the Daytona Cobra and I think a Ferrari. It was so cool to > watch. Unfortunately, he must have had a run in with some dirt as he > dropped about 5 places on the next to last lap. But, it was so cool to see > it doing so well, lap after lap with the Cobras on its tail. > > Jay From un-cole-a at juno.com Mon Aug 20 08:30:43 2007 From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:30:43 GMT Subject: [Tigers] Body prep and Bondo repair? Message-ID: <20070820.103043.9361.0@webmail05.lax.untd.com> First question: What do you prefer, Media Blasting/Sand Blasting or Dip Strip your Tiger body? Second question: After you do one of the above and you find some Bondo work that is in good shape and was done very well, do you take it out and put in sheet metal or do you leave it alone? Tim B9470149 From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Mon Aug 20 08:48:09 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:48:09 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Body prep and Bondo repair? Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BAE@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> The choice will partially come down to what's available in your neighborhood (and how far you're prepared to transport the bodyshell). Another concern would be that if you want to go the dip&strip route and you have the original VIN plate attached with the original rivets, then you have to talk with the operator of the tank to determine if it's possible to protect the vin plate and its rivets from the caustic solution (which will dissolve the aluminum vin plate). If you go with the dip operation, then any bondo that exists will be removed. You get back all the steel and lead on the bodyshell and that's it... No plastic, rubber, or aluminum parts. Media blasting gives the operator a lot of control over how much removal is done and where, but it would typically abrade anything soft like Bondo such that you'll need at least a skim coat or a couple of passes of high-build primer to level it back up again. The advantage of old Bondo is that any shrinkage that might occur as part of the aging process, will be all done with, but it could still crack and then leave you with a big blemish in the paint that's impossible to fix. If there is a hole (i.e. rust) that someone spooged shut with Bondo then that ought to be cut out and replaced with sheetmetal. The incremental cost of getting one or two patches put in, once the entire car is disassembled and stripped, is pretty small compared to the cost of the bodywork and paint as a whole. If you are getting the bodywork done and are doing anything other than a stock or 100% returnable-to-stock restoration, you should consider rolling inside the fender lips before the car is painted. Theo From CMcCann at lwpb.com Mon Aug 20 08:48:52 2007 From: CMcCann at lwpb.com (Cullen McCann) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:48:52 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Body prep and Bondo repair? In-Reply-To: <20070820.103043.9361.0@webmail05.lax.untd.com> References: <20070820.103043.9361.0@webmail05.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: Tim, Every now and then a question comes up that I have some experience with. My opinion is that media blasting is the best solution, especially if you are going to do it yourself....but the debate would be between that and chemical dipping. Dale's Restorations typically dips I believe and he obviously knows how to build a Tiger, but in many states, the EPA and other federal regulations have outlawed this process due to the chemical hazard. Here in Oklahoma there is no one that will do it at all. The chemical dipping is very thorough, so much so that occasionally you will lose material in the body that you otherwise would have kept. I had a friend who dipped his car in Dallas, and knew it had a small amount of filler but when he picked it up it looked like swiss cheese. Often the chemical stripping process will have a second stage that is a metal primer/sealer/etcher. This is a good idea to give you some time to work the body while unprotected. I don't recommend purchasing a chemical stripper and doing it yourself, as it is difficult to fully remove the traces of chemical stripping from the body seams and therefore poses a risk to paint lifting at a later date. I hear that there are some chemicals out now for the do it yourselfer that will neutralize the acids and also seal the metal like the two stage process that commercial dipping uses. Sandblasting conventionally produces too much heat and will likely distort the body, this is why media blasting was created, because the media, weather it be plastic beads, glass beads, nutshells and such will not build up and transfer heat into the material. (the car) You do have to take special care to remove the traces of the media after blasting, but your going to have to deal with that regardless of which approach. You could use sand to hit some of the structurally tougher areas like suspension, frame rails, floorboards etc, but I would highly recommend staying away from the body panels with the sand. As for your last question regarding leaving the filler, if you chemically strip you have no choice, it will be removed. If you media blast it will likely need to be at least touched up or added too....which is the beauty of body filler, you can add to existing without complication. Time and money permitting though I would recommend removal of the existing filler and replacing it. Hope this helps. Cullen B382001452 LROFE Replying to: Subject: [Tigers] Body prep and Bondo repair? From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 11:55:24 2007 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:55:24 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] England Trip Message-ID: Hi all in Tiger land, My wife and I are headed to England for Vacation at the end of the month for a couple weeks. We will be spending a week in London doing the standard tourist stuff, and then for the last week, we are renting a car and probably cruising around Southern England. Is there any Tiger related attractions that are on the must see list in London or southern England? About the only tiger related item we are currently doing is we are going to bring along a Johnny Lightning "matchbox" sized Tiger along and release it in England as Travel Bug in the geocaching game with a mission of touring England before returning home to the US. The geocaching game for those not familiar with it, is a high tech hide and seek or scavenger hunt type game using GPS's to find 'caches' of items that hidden. Basically using a multi-billion dollar military satellite system to find ammo cans and Tupperware hidden in the woods. A travel bug is simply any item that you can attach a dog tag with a tracking number on it, and you can give it 'missions' that the subsequent finders of the object will hopefully help it along its way. The fun part of this one is the Johnny Lightning Tiger is a Mk1 in British racing green just like our actual tiger, which is a fun coincidence. We are also planning a trip to see the Shuttleworth collection, which is a collection of vintage biplane type aircraft that all still fly on a regular basis. That collection also has some interesting vehicles and motorcycles that all still operate on a regular basis, but those vehicles are much older than our 60's era tigers. So any other Tiger related things to do while over there? Thanks, Steve From marden at mistral.co.uk Mon Aug 20 12:19:03 2007 From: marden at mistral.co.uk (marden) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:19:03 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tigers] England Trip. Message-ID: <56215.86.132.254.101.1187633943.squirrel@webmail.mistral.net> Hi Tigerman, Tigermart here in sunny (not) Southern England. If you arrive in England before September then I can reccomend the following: Fri 31st August to Sunday 2nd September is the famous Goodwood revival race meeting in West Sussex. The best retro event in the world bar none. Most people dress up in 1950/60's outfits and the Tiger crowd always make a good show in the car park. They have a special pre-66 car park where you can spend hours just looking at cars before even going in to the event. It is a ticket only event but I am sre you can find some with the help of the internet. Possible Tiger running. Sat 8th September: Brighton Speed Trials held on the seafront at Brighton on a closed public road. 200 fast cars and 50 bikes along the strip at up to 170 mph. I am competing. Some Tiger involvement. Sat 8th and sun 9th September: Beaulieu Autojumble (Hershey!) If you want IT you'll find IT here at Beaulieu in the beautiful New Forest Hampshire. Beaulieu is also the home of the national motor museum. Just a taster for you. Martin Pester Tiger Mk2, Tiger Mk1, STOC regalia and archives. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 12:21:13 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:21:13 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] England Trip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a841b0708201121nc9b4e61jb8b600b56f8c78e6@mail.gmail.com> there is a place in manchester that rents a tiger if you're interested! On 8/20/07, Tigerman wrote: > Hi all in Tiger land, > > My wife and I are headed to England for Vacation at the end of the month for > a couple weeks. We will be spending a week in London doing the standard > tourist stuff, and then for the last week, we are renting a car and probably > cruising around Southern England. > > Is there any Tiger related attractions that are on the must see list in > London or southern England? > > About the only tiger related item we are currently doing is we are going to > bring along a Johnny Lightning "matchbox" sized Tiger along and release it > in England as Travel Bug in the geocaching game with a mission of touring > England before returning home to the US. The geocaching game for those not > familiar with it, is a high tech hide and seek or scavenger hunt type game > using GPS's to find 'caches' of items that hidden. Basically using a > multi-billion dollar military satellite system to find ammo cans and > Tupperware hidden in the woods. A travel bug is simply any item that you > can attach a dog tag with a tracking number on it, and you can give it > 'missions' that the subsequent finders of the object will hopefully help it > along its way. The fun part of this one is the Johnny Lightning Tiger is a > Mk1 in British racing green just like our actual tiger, which is a fun > coincidence. > > We are also planning a trip to see the Shuttleworth collection, which is a > collection of vintage biplane type aircraft that all still fly on a regular > basis. That collection also has some interesting vehicles and motorcycles > that all still operate on a regular basis, but those vehicles are much older > than our 60's era tigers. > > So any other Tiger related things to do while over there? > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From prbreuhan at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 13:09:22 2007 From: prbreuhan at hotmail.com (Paul R. Breuhan) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:09:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Body prep and Bondo repair? In-Reply-To: <20070820.103043.9361.0@webmail05.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: "What do you prefer, Media Blasting/Sand Blasting or Dip Strip your Tiger body?" Tim, To me it depends upon the condition of the car and your ultimate goal. There are advantages and disadvantages to everything you do. How much rust and bodywork is on your car? What I am doing is a "rolling" restoration on my car...drive it (in theory) while I work on it. The background on the car is that it was stripped to bare metal then restored 15 years ago. I had a fire that damaged the engine compartment, all of the interior and a bit of the exterior so I am starting again...with the car completely pulled apart. The good news is the car only had 3K miles on it since the restoration so most of the bodywork is still great other than A few trouble spots. I stripped the engine & interior compartment by hand with chemicals and finished it off by hand sanding with a foam block. On the body I plan on using a DA (Dual Action) Sander with 80 grit paper...and the jams by hand (paddles, blocks & sponges). I don't have a rust issue so I plan on keeping whatever filler remains and just going over it. I have a spare trunk lid that I want to french the license plate area in, I will probably have that blasted this winter by someone other than myself...to keep my project rolling. My trouble spots were caused by the body filler not having any metal behind it so moisture got in and caused bubbling. All of the filler was removed, I hammered the low spots up and the small holes were welded up...with a bit of filler redone over my repairs. You should never use just body filler to fill in holes...body filler works great when it's completely sealed in. And actually I am ready to begin my final assault for painting the engine compartment. I sprayed part of the firewall with LizardSkin Ceramic Insulation in July...just need a final clean-up, seal everything up, then spray away. Now if only it would stop raining. Paul >From: "un-cole-a at juno.com" >To: tigers at autox.team.net >Subject: [Tigers] Body prep and Bondo repair? >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:30:43 GMT > >First question: What do you prefer, Media Blasting/Sand Blasting or Dip >Strip >your Tiger body? >Second question: After you do one of the above and you find some Bondo work >that is in good shape and was done very well, do you take it out and put in >sheet metal or do you leave it alone? >Tim >B9470149 _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From motoys2001 at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 13:37:41 2007 From: motoys2001 at comcast.net (motoys2001 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:37:41 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] England Trip Message-ID: <082020071937.14373.46C9ED850008DC31000038252200737478CECFCFCD9C97019B0103@comcast.net> Hello Steve, My wife and I did he same last year. YOU MUST DO THE GOODWOOD REVIVAL. We also happened across a free spectating evennt at Silverstone Raceway (nw of Oxford) Please be prepared for the bad exchange rate and the lack of ice or anything cold... I'm serious, they lost the recipe for ice in WWII. Get the Oyster Card for the Underground...Mind the gap! Cheers, Henry V From musta32188 at msn.com Mon Aug 20 17:29:32 2007 From: musta32188 at msn.com (PHILLIP SILK) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:29:32 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] England Trip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Isn't the Goodwood Revival coming up? There might not be any Tigers, but it is quite possibly the coolest auto event on earth. http://www.goodwood.co.uk/revival/ _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world From lgooch at satx.rr.com Mon Aug 20 19:10:23 2007 From: lgooch at satx.rr.com (lewis gooch) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:10:23 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Flowmaster Help Message-ID: <032a01c7e390$0d7e5f50$6466a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> I AM LOOKING TO BUY A SET OF THE NEW FLOWMASTER SUPER 44'S WHILE THEY ARE ON SALE BUT AM UNSURE WHICH IS THE BEST CONFIGURATION FOR THE TIGER. COULD I GET SOME FEEDBACK WHICH MIGHT FIT THE BEST OF THESE SHOWN. BY THE WAY THEY ARE GIVING AWAY A PAIR A DAY IF YOU GO ONLINE AND REGISTER. thanks IN/OUT PRODUCT # 2.25" 942445 2.50" 942545 3.00" 943045 IN/OUT PRODUCT # 2.25" 942446 2.50" 942546 3.00" 943046 IN/OUT PRODUCT # 2.25" 942447 2.50" 942547 3.00" 943047 Super 44T Standard 4" Case 4" X 9.75" X 13" - 19 " Overall Length IN/OUT PRODUCT # 2.25" 942448 2.50" 942548 3.00" 943048 IN/OUT PRODUCT # 2.25" 942449 2.50" 942549 3.00" 943049 IN/OUT PRODUCT # 3.00"/2.50"X2 9430452 IN/OUT PRODUCT # 3.00"/2.50"X2 9430462 [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 44_c_c.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 44_o_c.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 44_c_o.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 44_o_o.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 44_o_o_ss.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 44_c_dual.jpg] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of 44_o_dual.jpg] From tsmit at shaw.ca Mon Aug 20 21:22:26 2007 From: tsmit at shaw.ca (Theo Smit) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:22:26 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Flowmaster Help In-Reply-To: <032a01c7e390$0d7e5f50$6466a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> References: <032a01c7e390$0d7e5f50$6466a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <46CA5A72.8090600@shaw.ca> Hi Lewis, You'd better really like the sound of your Tiger, as well as sharing that sound, because if Flowmaster says "it's the most aggressive, deepest sounding" muffler they have, it's going to be LOUD. I used their 50 series Delta flow mufflers, 2" center-in, center-out (their part# 942050) and I like the sound. They just fit between the stock front exhaust hangers (just behind the rear part of the X under the car) and the rear axle tube - the rear muffler flange is under the axle. You can also use side-out outlets, but I think that if you use anything but center in then you'll probably end up hitting either the springs or the driveshaft. The tubing diameter should match what you're using on the rest of the exhaust. There is a big loudness difference between 2.25" and 2.5" so again you want to be careful about what you go with there. Good luck, Theo lewis gooch wrote: > I AM LOOKING TO BUY A SET OF THE NEW FLOWMASTER SUPER 44'S WHILE THEY ARE ON > SALE BUT AM UNSURE WHICH IS THE BEST CONFIGURATION FOR THE TIGER. COULD I GET > SOME FEEDBACK WHICH MIGHT FIT THE BEST OF THESE SHOWN. > BY THE WAY THEY ARE GIVING AWAY A PAIR A DAY IF YOU GO ONLINE AND REGISTER. > thanks From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Mon Aug 20 22:13:50 2007 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:13:50 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Bondo removal Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF0732453E@norn32.d30.intra> Tim, I would remove ALL of the old filler !! The older stuff is nothing like the new lightweight polyester fillers they have today. It would be a shame to have the car all done only to have some of this old filler crack or delaminate. There are excellent chemical primers now that should go over bare steel and then put the filler over that. Our company has something called CR or washprimer (Can't remember and it depends if you are in California or not) that etches into the steel and then will hold filler better than filler can stick to steel on its own. To remove the old filler, unless you want a dust storm grinding it out, a torch and a wire brush works wonders just do not get carried away and warp the steel. By the way if you wanted to reuse the old filler work despite the advice you can ONLY do it if you media blast. If you chemical strip then you MUST remove the filler regardless. As for your question about replacing with steel ... send me a photo and I can suggest what I would do. But with that said the best repairs are made directly over metal ... steel or lead IMHO. Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings 23961 Via El Rocio Mission Viejo, CA 92691 Bus: 949-305-5393 Fax: 425-955-6268 Cell: 949-289-3357 email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal email: timronak at cox.net From brichards at fineeyes.com Tue Aug 21 09:38:13 2007 From: brichards at fineeyes.com (Bruce) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:38:13 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Website Message-ID: <000601c7e409$4a4b0ea0$6400a8c0@D3FDRK91> I ran across this website while searching for something totally different, it has some really cool car listings. http://junkontheweb.com/ Bruce B9470147 From crbernardino at mac.com Tue Aug 21 10:45:21 2007 From: crbernardino at mac.com (Robert Bernardino) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:45:21 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Leaving Well Enough Alone: The Rise of the Unrestored Classic - New York Times Message-ID: <3CD924DB-5FC8-46E1-84DB-4BA4D0C8DA29@mac.com> Tiger gang, A great article on not restoring but preserving cars. Also might we consider 'licensing' the term survivor class for our tiger/aline shows? Rob in CT 66 Mk1A - daily driver neither restored nor survived, just driven http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/automobiles/collectibles/ 19RESTO.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1 From PhastPhill at aol.com Tue Aug 21 11:23:28 2007 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:23:28 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Bondo removal Message-ID: As a retired body man I would remove all the old body filler. You don't know what is under there unless you remove it. Not that many years ago these cars were not that valuable, repairs were often done at an "ok " level, like getting your second car painted at a Macio "special". It could be a dent that with some good hammer and dolly work could be worked back to needing just a thin skim of filler. It could be a patch riveted on, or as was common up to the 90's brazed on over the hole. You want to do a better job if you have taken the car this far. Proper metal repairs, done professionally are the least amount of the expense of a body and paint job. Modern fillers are much better than they used to be, and if done properly the repairs will only need a thin skim of filler. Never more than 6 mil and preferably much less than that. For metrically challenged 6 mil is a quarter inch appox. As Tim mentioned just warm it, and you don't need that much heat, and you can scrape it right off. Or grind if you like, be careful as you can generate enough heat with a big grinder and coarse grit to warp a panel as well. Mater of fact be damn careful with a body grinder anytime you use one, I have seen lots of people injured and had a few nicks my self. Anyway just my two cents......cheers From tigerfixer at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 11:42:03 2007 From: tigerfixer at yahoo.com (Bill Martin) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] Hollywood Sportscar Tiger at Monterey In-Reply-To: <00be01c7e30d$a85ebed0$97975142@trippel> Message-ID: <290585.54665.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello All, I would like to add that Dave lost pressure in a front tire on Saturdays warmup then we broke two rockers during the official race. Dave did start in last place but reeled in 6 cars in just a couple of laps. We now know the replacement interval for production rockers!! Other notable happenings. Terry Curry talked Pete Chapouris into bringing the Doane Spencer 32 roadster and the other 32 that Doane started to build for Daryl Brunn up to our pit on Saturday afternoon. We had like 50 to 100 people and 4 magazines shooting the cars and Dale and I got to go over the details of each car with Pete and his two technicians. It was unbelieveabe!!!! Thanks to Terry Curry for making it happen! I owe you a beer or two Bill ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue Aug 21 12:38:03 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:38:03 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Leaving Well Enough Alone: The Rise of the Unrestored Classic - New York Times Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BB6@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> I think that would be good, if that were enough to keep someone from stripping an otherwise well-preserved Tiger back to bare metal and removing every blemish from every part regardless of whether it was there from day one. However, I think that the concours pressure at a typical Sunbeam event (having attended two SUNIs) is not that high and I'd be very surprised if getting second at SUNI, or a Tigers United, was the thing that broke the camel's back and caused a Tiger owner to tear down their survivor and do a nut and bolt restoration. Maybe we just need a rule that says "original trumps shiny" when it comes to paintwork. You still want people to keep their Tigers safe if they're going to drive the cars... Using original suspension components and brake hardware 40 years after they were made is pretty scary. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Robert Bernardino Sent: August 21, 2007 10:45 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Leaving Well Enough Alone: The Rise of the Unrestored Classic - New York Times Tiger gang, A great article on not restoring but preserving cars. Also might we consider 'licensing' the term survivor class for our tiger/aline shows? Rob in CT From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Tue Aug 21 12:54:01 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:54:01 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Leaving Well Enough Alone: The Rise of the Unrestored Classic - New York Times Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F721@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> Btw, the XKSS in the article was parked just down the row from us at Pebble. It was very cool. ----- Original Message ----- From: tigers-bounces+wsteinman=pogolaw.com at autox.team.net To: Robert Bernardino ; tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Tue Aug 21 14:38:03 2007 Subject: Re: [Tigers] Leaving Well Enough Alone: The Rise of the Unrestored Classic - New York Times I think that would be good, if that were enough to keep someone from stripping an otherwise well-preserved Tiger back to bare metal and removing every blemish from every part regardless of whether it was there from day one. However, I think that the concours pressure at a typical Sunbeam event (having attended two SUNIs) is not that high and I'd be very surprised if getting second at SUNI, or a Tigers United, was the thing that broke the camel's back and caused a Tiger owner to tear down their survivor and do a nut and bolt restoration. Maybe we just need a rule that says "original trumps shiny" when it comes to paintwork. You still want people to keep their Tigers safe if they're going to drive the cars... Using original suspension components and brake hardware 40 years after they were made is pretty scary. Theo -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+theo.smit=dynastream.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Robert Bernardino Sent: August 21, 2007 10:45 AM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Leaving Well Enough Alone: The Rise of the Unrestored Classic - New York Times Tiger gang, A great article on not restoring but preserving cars. Also might we consider 'licensing' the term survivor class for our tiger/aline shows? Rob in CT _______________________________________________ wsteinman at pogolaw.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From Rollright at aol.com Tue Aug 21 13:25:03 2007 From: Rollright at aol.com (Rollright at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:25:03 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Tigers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 56 Message-ID: 1. Re: Hollywood Sportscar Tiger at Monterey (Bill Martin) PICTURES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim Armstrong rollright at aol.com Mk1A #382002083 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mtjoy at telis.org Tue Aug 21 13:23:01 2007 From: mtjoy at telis.org (Mountjoy) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:23:01 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] paging Eric Coiner References: Message-ID: <001701c7e428$b0d14d00$1eb90c45@computer> Eric Coiner, please Email me off the list. Thanks, Darrell From drmayf at mayfco.com Tue Aug 21 14:25:18 2007 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:25:18 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] The hunt for the Missing Boost... Message-ID: <46CB4A2E.2000803@mayfco.com> Repeated the leakdown... still hasn't healed itself. So, on Skips advice, tore it down. And the news is not good... burned the top land of #3 piston plus looks like it was getting a bit hot in other places on that piston. Interesting in that all the others on that side show moderate carbon on the pistons but this one is pretty darn clean. Very little combustion product on it at all. So I am thinking maybe the injector wasn't firing or is plugged or some how farkled. I also found that the waste gate controller hot side gasket was blown out on one side. So now I am going to have to track some of those down ans well. Life is grand, ain't it. Gotta call D.S.S. for pistons and rings and maybe bearings... how much fun can a guy have, lol... mayf From arado7 at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 21 15:10:23 2007 From: arado7 at sbcglobal.net (arado7 at sbcglobal.net) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:10:23 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Leaving Well Enough Alone: The Rise of the Unrestored Classic - New York Times References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BB6@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <001101c7e437$b0db3a40$085edf45@gmircep11juynz> > Maybe we just need a rule that says "original trumps shiny" when it > comes to paintwork. You still want people to keep their Tigers safe if > they're going to drive the cars... Using original suspension components > and brake hardware 40 years after they were made is pretty scary. Theo, I have an original Tiger that I have put effort into keeping it so. The suspension and brakes are original design but refreshed and quite safe. The power output is unmodified. The only part of the car that concerns me is the wiring harness. I keep an eye on it and keep it secure but age takes it's toll. Regards, Gary B9472283 From crbernardino at mac.com Tue Aug 21 15:27:34 2007 From: crbernardino at mac.com (Robert Bernardino) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:27:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Modern Lat Hood Message-ID: Looks familiar - but certainly looks better on a Tiger than a Dodge product. Rob in CT 66 MK1a Tiger No Lat Hood - yet http://jalopnik.com/cars/what-price-performance/dodge-announces- caliber-srt4-pricing-to-start-at-22995-291862.php From drmoonstone at aol.com Tue Aug 21 16:11:16 2007 From: drmoonstone at aol.com (drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:11:16 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Body prep and Bondo repair? In-Reply-To: <20070820.103043.9361.0@webmail05.lax.untd.com> References: <20070820.103043.9361.0@webmail05.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <8C9B25753CF06FA-604-37DF@webmail-md08.sysops.aol.com> What are you trying to do?" Soda blasting is also a process to consider, depending on what you want. Dr Moonstone _______________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From drmoonstone at aol.com Tue Aug 21 16:20:41 2007 From: drmoonstone at aol.com (drmoonstone at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:20:41 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Body prep and Bondo repair? In-Reply-To: <20070820.103043.9361.0@webmail05.lax.untd.com> References: <20070820.103043.9361.0@webmail05.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <8C9B258A4EFFE6E-604-3855@webmail-md08.sysops.aol.com> Depending on what you want..... To remove just paint use soda blasting. Other media such as crushed walnut shells can also be used, or plastic media. The question is how aggressive you need to be. As far as dipping goes, we've gotten many cars in that were dipped and ended up with major problems. Dipping is one of the few processes we won't do. We have many very specialized processes that depend on end use. If you have more specific questions contact me off list. Dr Moonstone (Sean) Caps Bright Hot Coatings Caps Powder Coating and Blasting Caps Ceramic Coating (yes real ceramic and it's a new service we offer) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From zymmer4 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 14:16:38 2007 From: zymmer4 at yahoo.com (Howard gentry) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] tiger for purchase? Message-ID: <345733.16103.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> greetings, I am considering the purchase of a Tiger..My uncle had a 1968,BRG,alloy wheels,306HP Cobra tune engine that I really enjoyed driving all over West Virginia. I would not be looking for something that warmed over. Stock with a 260(hard to find) or a good driving 289 would be ok as well. Does anyone on the list know of such a car that "isn't made of gold"?? I live 55 miles north of Charleston,Wv. Thanks for looking. Zymmer4 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 From bobdixon at frii.com Wed Aug 22 14:47:44 2007 From: bobdixon at frii.com (Bob Dixon) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Tigers] tiger for purchase? In-Reply-To: <345733.16103.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <345733.16103.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37060.192.55.12.36.1187815664.squirrel@users.frii.com> Hi Howard, I have a 66 MK1A I was going to put up on ebay in a few weeks. If it didn't sell I was going to restore it over the winter and sell it in the spring. Since I already have another I'm going to restore (and keep), I could really use the space. It's a solid car. It looks like it had rust issues at one time but they were fixed with new pieces and patches. The 260 seems to run fine (no smoke) but the carb needs some simple tuning for off-idle response. It needs paint and a new dash. I have new door panels and soft-top. It has a bunch of other new stuff but I can list those out if you are interested. It is currently red, but was originally white. If you are willing to put a little work into it, I think it would be a good car. I'm in Colorado. Bob Dixon > greetings, > I am considering the purchase of a Tiger..My > uncle had a 1968,BRG,alloy wheels,306HP Cobra tune > engine that I really enjoyed driving all over West > Virginia. I would not be looking for something that > warmed over. Stock with a 260(hard to find) or a good > driving 289 would be ok as well. Does anyone on the > list know of such a car that "isn't made of gold"?? > I live 55 miles north of Charleston,Wv. Thanks for > looking. > Zymmer4 From milano164 at comcast.net Wed Aug 22 17:47:59 2007 From: milano164 at comcast.net (Steven silverstein) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:47:59 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] unrestored classics - New York Times Message-ID: <328719C2-D282-44A9-BFC7-2B6321F2D0DF@comcast.net> The New York Times story was a very good article. Over the years I have been involved with the VSCCA, a racing organization that really focuses on the preservation of sports cars as they are. In fact, there are a number of really great un-restored cars I race with including Sandy Lieth's Bugatti and Sandi McNiel's 250GTO. Of course all these cars have been "refurbished" mechanically but still very true to their originality... and they race them. In fact, it was many of the VSCCA members who convinced me to leave the Sports Car Forum Alpine alone and try and keep it as original as possible. Sure, it looks crusty when compared to many of the restored cars but I think it draws just as much attention. I would like to see more cars left alone. In fact, it makes me think I should leave the MkII we recently bought as it is - taking care of mechanical issues - but leaving as much alone as possible. Steve Silverstein BTW< the black Series II Alpine which is "as is, 1968..." took a 3rd in class at the Lime Rock Concours. I thought it was generous that the judges award the place to the Alpine but I also think they really appreciated the preserved look. (I was surprised how much the Black paint DID buff out! Almost too shinny. If you could see the garage pictures when it was found you'd understand. I think the dirt preserved the paint) http://www.saoca.org/gallery/IMG_1607.jpg http://www.saoca.org/gallery/P1030322_2.jpg http://www.saoca.org/gallery/IMG_1604_2.jpg From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Wed Aug 22 22:02:56 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:02:56 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] u-bolts Message-ID: <39a841b0708222102y1a3af43dt4439bc8ecd91e249@mail.gmail.com> where are you guys getting your leaf spring u-bolts from? i couldn't find any locally and eventually ordered a set from summit with next day fedex :eek: - 7/16" rod, 6.5" length, 2.5" internal diameter. however, measure twice, order once - turns out the old u-bolts are smaller, 3/8" rod and the 7/16" ones don't fit through the mounting plate. i can't find 3/8" anywhere, not even general spring of kansas which seems to offer any size. i'm thinking of just drilling out the holes to fit the 7/16" bolts. do you think that is wise? thanks. From PhastPhill at aol.com Thu Aug 23 07:15:17 2007 From: PhastPhill at aol.com (PhastPhill at aol.com) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:15:17 EDT Subject: [Tigers] u-bolts Message-ID: I went to a local shop that's been in business for almost 50 years, it's a spring shop, mainly for trucks. Look in the yellow pages under springs, any big town that has lots of heavy trucks should have one. I took in an old one for the guy to copy, right away he knew it was not reg north american, he even recognized the weird lock nuts they have. They had the right diameter material and bent and threaded new ones for me, they had all the equipment to do this right there. Big rigs break springs all the time on the tractors and the trailers, they can't wait for stuff, just make a new one.Took the guy about half an hour and I think he charged me 10 bucks each. They fit perfectly, he made them about a half inch longer so I could use some nice deep nylock nuts. I only broke one taking them off but felt better with all new ones in place.....cheers From brichards at fineeyes.com Thu Aug 23 09:51:14 2007 From: brichards at fineeyes.com (Bruce) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:51:14 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Wooden steering wheel restoration Message-ID: <001b01c7e59d$70e21780$6400a8c0@D3FDRK91> I was looking through my new Hagerty magazine today and saw an article talking about wooden steering wheel repair/restoration. It listed the following restorers, I don't know prices or quality, just wanted to pass this along. British Autowood 407-774-5332 www.britishautowood.com Bruce Crawford Hardwood Classics 805-528-6240 www.hardwoodclassicsltd.com Jack Arct 503-775-5208 Jack1600s at msn.com Lempert Wheels 843-856-7542 www.lempertwheels.com Snyders Woodcraft 610-759-4276 The Wood N' Carr 562-498-8730 www.woodncarr.net William Rau Restoration 310-445-1128 www.rau-autowood.com Just thought I would pass this along for reference. Bruce B9470147 From un-cole-a at juno.com Thu Aug 23 18:10:58 2007 From: un-cole-a at juno.com (un-cole-a at juno.com) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:10:58 GMT Subject: [Tigers] Azure Blue?? Message-ID: <20070823.201058.6863.0@webmail12.lax.untd.com> Started to take the carpets out and other miscellaneous items from the interior in order to get an idea of what I need for the restoration but now I'm more confused about interior color then I was before. I have mentioned this to a few of you and I also posed the question to Norm about the color combo but something is not right. According to all Rootes references the inside of the Tiger should be Azure Blue with #76 Balmoral Gray paint. However, the whole inside of the car is black, no where is there any indication that the interior was once Azure Blue. Of course the POs before could have changed the inside of the car to black but why go to all that expense. I figured I would find some shred of evidence that the interior was Azure Blue, but alas none. The door panels do not look original so I know they were changed out sometime, to change the carpet is not a big deal but all the other interior panels and such would have to be changed. I can see the dash being black and the dash pad also being black but why no indication the the interior was Azure Blue. Unless, this Tiger came out of the factory with a black interior instead of the Azure blue?? Could this be possible? We all know that a few strange thing did happen at the Rootes factories. Now the question is, do I put a black interior back in or do I go with Azure Blue?? For now I'm leaning towards the blue, I think with the gray it looks really good. Anyway, just thought I would throw this out there and see what people thought. Tim B9470149 From shutchin at netjets.com Thu Aug 23 18:37:53 2007 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:37:53 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Azure Blue?? Message-ID: TBON states that black on black was part of the color choices for the 947 series of cars with that exterior color. If you like the blue put in blue. TBON shows four interior color options for 76 Balmoral Grey.. Black on Black. Black with Light Blue Piping, Black Carpets. Blue with Dark Blue Piping, Blue Carpets. Blue on Blue, Blue Carpets. TBON also references different binding colors available on carpets but only Blue Carpets installed in Dark colored cars. Have fun with the resto. Scott Hutchinson Assistant Director of Operations Netjets International Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 ********** This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From rjw at wengco.com Fri Aug 24 04:31:20 2007 From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 06:31:20 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Detail Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C555869A@weco1.wengco.com> I have a 66 Tiger, B382001318LRXFE that is in the final stage of a 4 year restoration. While taking the paint off I noticed that there are not any mounting holes for the SUNBEAM emblems in front of the hood. The body where these should be located appears to be original and not a repair. Does anyone know if some Tigers were made without the front emblems? Also can anyone recommend some where I can have the speedometer rebuilt? Bob From jimboynton at comcast.net Fri Aug 24 05:11:48 2007 From: jimboynton at comcast.net (Jim Boynton) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:11:48 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Detail In-Reply-To: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C555869A@weco1.wengco.com> References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C555869A@weco1.wengco.com> Message-ID: <000901c7e63f$91414350$0301a8c0@biblehill> Also can anyone recommend some where I can have the speedometer rebuilt? Bob I have mine speedo and tach rebuilt (2002) by Mo Ma, Albuquerque, NM (505-766-6661. I recommend them. The tach still had a problem and they took it back for a second look and found a minor problem and returned it with no charge. Jim Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From stubrennan at comcast.net Fri Aug 24 07:25:05 2007 From: stubrennan at comcast.net (Stu Brennan) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:25:05 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Detail In-Reply-To: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C555869A@weco1.wengco.com> Message-ID: <000e01c7e652$309c87e0$6601a8c0@Brennan> I'm sure someone will check TBON for the exact s/n where they stopped, but they did eliminate the SUNBEAM letters on the front at some point. My 1A (B382002452) is without, but that's well after yours. Maybe at the 1/1A transition? Stu From awtiger at cox.net Fri Aug 24 07:29:06 2007 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 9:29:06 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Detail Message-ID: <3191091.1187962146724.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml11> Bob: Your car, being a "B382" car, would be a Mk1A rather than a Mk1. The general rule is that Rootes eliminated the "S U N B E A M" lettering across the nose of the car when Mk1A production started. I know that my car, B382001600LRXFE, doesn't have the holes either and never did. The bottom line here is that your car never had the letters so you don't have to worry about locating them and adding them to the car. Take care, Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From jimboynton at comcast.net Fri Aug 24 07:44:31 2007 From: jimboynton at comcast.net (Jim Boynton) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:44:31 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Detail In-Reply-To: <000e01c7e652$309c87e0$6601a8c0@Brennan> References: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C555869A@weco1.wengco.com> <000e01c7e652$309c87e0$6601a8c0@Brennan> Message-ID: <001d01c7e654$e6989870$0301a8c0@biblehill> I have an early 1A (382000376) with no lettering. From GRMTim at aol.com Fri Aug 24 07:57:46 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:57:46 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Sunbeam Detail Message-ID: Nisonger in New York did a beautiful job on my speedometer. Tell them I sent you. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From motoys2001 at comcast.net Fri Aug 24 08:13:23 2007 From: motoys2001 at comcast.net (motoys2001 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:13:23 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] Shelby Track Event & Vintage Ford Car Show Autobahn Joliet Message-ID: <082420071413.14556.46CEE78300015127000038DC2206999735CECFCFCD9C97019B0103@comcast.net> Shelby Track Event & Vintage Ford Car Show Autobahn Joliet Northwoods Region Shelby American Automobile Club presents: The Northwoods Gran Prix at Autobahn Country Club Joliet, Saturday September 29, Sunday September 30 & Monday October 1. If you would like to participate in the open track event, hang out and meet new friends, or just stop by to spectate, check out the link below: http://www.nwshelbyclub.com/index.php?page_id=37 There is a $5.00 per day gate fee for spectators, 13 and younger entry free with paid adult. AND The Chicago Vintage Mustang Club presents: The First Annual Trackside Mustang and Ford Car Show Sunday, September 30 Concurrent with the Shelby event there will be a vintage car show hosted by the Chicago Vintage Mustang Club on Sunday. Event hours are 8AM to 5PM with check-in running 8AM to 10AM. Registration fee is $20 (pre-registration $15). Includes 2 admission. Spectators $5.00, 13 and under free with paid adult. Show grounds just inside the main gate on the Autobahn's beautiful car show area. This is an added spectating treat for the Ford enthusiast. Exclusive and unforgetable on track parade laps for car show participants! Do not miss this show! For more information visit the website at http://www.chicago-mustang.com/autobahn2007.pdf. Mark your calenders, bring the whole family and don't forget your camera. See you there! Henry V From Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com Fri Aug 24 17:12:03 2007 From: Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com (Jay_Laifman at countrywide.com) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:12:03 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Azure Blue Message-ID: Tim write: "[snip] According to all Rootes references the inside of the Tiger should be Azure Blue with #76 Balmoral Gray paint. However, the whole inside of the car is black, no where is there any indication that the interior was once Azure Blue. Of course the POs before could have changed the inside of the car to black but why go to all that expense. I figured I would find some shred of evidence that the interior was Azure Blue, but alas none.[snip] Anyway, just thought I would throw this out there and see what people thought." I think that there is simply no way anyone can be 100% certain that any part is original on a 40 year old car unless they were the original owner. There can be multiple restorations in that period of time. It even could be that within a year, the original owner decided he or she hated a blue interior and pulled it all out for black. It can be done in an afternoon. Sorry, Jay ====================================================================== Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in and transmitted with this communication is strictly confidential, is intended only for the use of the intended recipient, and is the property of Countrywide Financial Corporation or its affiliates and subsidiaries. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of the information contained in or transmitted with the communication or dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately return this communication to the sender and delete the original message and any copy of it in your possession. ====================================================================== From drmayf at mayfco.com Fri Aug 24 18:23:56 2007 From: drmayf at mayfco.com (drmayf) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:23:56 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Piece PArts... Message-ID: <46CF769C.3080403@mayfco.com> I am tired of looking at a mess I made 37 years ago ont he front of my Mk 1 Tiger. That was to install very large and pretty awful looking fender flares. But in order to fix that, I will need a couple of donor fenders to get er done. ANy one have a source where I can snag a couple or reasonably rust free fenders? That is the major issue I have. I have a few missing bits and pieces fromt he rag top but I can probably get then from Curt or one of the other folk. Thanks, for listening.. mayf From gammaman at mokancomm.net Fri Aug 24 21:57:01 2007 From: gammaman at mokancomm.net (Richard Bruner) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:57:01 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Azure Blue?? Message-ID: <001f01c7e6cb$fef7c9f0$6401a8c0@yourus67pi6luv> Tim, Maybe this will help with your decision.... http://www.classicsunbeam.com/asp/dyncat.asp?which=classun&p1=initial&p2=SALE +ITEMS From GRMTim at aol.com Fri Aug 24 22:01:16 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:01:16 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Trouble with Azure blue interior Message-ID: I too am struggling with Azure blue interior. My early car #746, clearly had Azure blue interior, but a previous owner painted my blue seats black. I see no evidence that the carpets, and console were blue though. I also got material samples from Martha and they are not that similar to the Azure blue color on the bottom of my seats. To make things more complicated, I really want to do my seats in leather, and I can't match either Martha's color or the original color very well in leather. As for piping, I believe my piping was dark blue. The exterior color is Midnight blue. I can't figure out whether my carpets should be Azure or dark blue. I wanted to upgrade these a bit to a Wilton wool style carpet. Any help or sources for Azure (or near Zure blue) leather and correct carpet would be appreciated. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mmichels at socal.rr.com Fri Aug 24 22:49:23 2007 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:49:23 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] u-bolts References: <39a841b0708222102y1a3af43dt4439bc8ecd91e249@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001701c7e6d3$50826800$8a01a8c0@delldimension> I ran into exactly the same situation. Try these guys. They made custom bolts with washers and nuts, very nice quality. 5 bucks apiece plus tax and shipping. Just be sure to provide the axle housing diameter which, as you discovered is smaller than for mustang. I needed longer bolts in order to install lowering blocks. They might even be able to make those for you. Vehicle Spring Service 3760 County Road 99W Orland, CA 95963 (530) 865 6520 Ask for Tony. They do spring re arching etc. and do work for Jay Leno's collection. ----- Original Message ----- > where are you guys getting your leaf spring u-bolts from? i couldn't > find any locally and eventually ordered a set from summit with next > day fedex :eek: - 7/16" rod, 6.5" length, 2.5" internal diameter. > > however, measure twice, order once - turns out the old u-bolts are > smaller, 3/8" rod and the 7/16" ones don't fit through the mounting > plate. > > i can't find 3/8" anywhere, not even general spring of kansas which > seems to offer any size. > > i'm thinking of just drilling out the holes to fit the 7/16" bolts. do > you think that is wise? > > thanks. > _______________________________________________ > mmichels at socal.rr.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Sat Aug 25 01:50:52 2007 From: Timothy.Ronak at crna.akzonobel.com (Ronak, TP (Timothy)) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 03:50:52 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Front letters Message-ID: <4913BCB980045E458620578F53F4F9AF073B4423@norn32.d30.intra> Bob, My 66 MK 1A is VIN 382000680 and it has never had letters. It is a crossover body with Round trunk but square doors and hood. You are original if you leave the letters off. Best Regards, Tim Ronak Services Consultant Akzo Nobel Coatings 23961 Via El Rocio Mission Viejo, CA 92691 Bus: 949-305-5393 Fax: 425-955-6268 Cell: 949-289-3357 email: timothy.ronak at crna.akzonobel.com Personal email: timronak at cox.net From flueeler.roland at active.ch Sat Aug 25 03:37:11 2007 From: flueeler.roland at active.ch (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Roland_Fl=FCeler?=) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:37:11 +0200 Subject: [Tigers] Hollywood Sportscar Tiger at Monterey Message-ID: <003601c7e6fb$9743ef20$2424b053@acer969f5fc4e6> Does anybody know whether pictures of the race and the Hollywood Sportscar Tiger can be found on the internet? Thank you in advance. Roland Fl|eler, in Switzerland HROFE B9471941 From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 26 15:22:03 2007 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 22:22:03 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Couple of Harringtons on ebay.co.uk Message-ID: Thought these may be of interest to someone. There are form www.ebay.co.uk but should come up if you search the number on ebay.com 190142915317 - a small one 290149793957 - a slightly larger one regards -- Jeff Howarth From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 27 07:00:03 2007 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:00:03 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] Venezia anyone Message-ID: No interest form me etc et c http://www.sussexsportscars.co.uk/detail.php?stock_id=476 I believe its up for #12,000 GB Pounds -- Jeff Howarth From jwebb630 at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 08:18:15 2007 From: jwebb630 at gmail.com (John Webber) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:18:15 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger for Sale Message-ID: <3aefbb4c0708270718q2964b431mbfc964ba2433362a@mail.gmail.com> Selling my Tiger after nearly 20 years of ownership, this BRG '66 MKIA is well known in the Tiger community, since I've driven it all over the country: S/N B382000334, JAL 660323 TAC No. 0511. It's powered by a Ford Motorsports 302, it has a Dale A.-built five speed and 3:07 posi rear. Runs on 14-inch Panasports. Has a repro LAT hood, restored hardtop and too many goodies to mention here. $33,500 with spares and literature. For a spec sheet and fotos, contact John Webber: jwebb630 at gmail.com or 407-435-8772, From chris at cthompson.net Mon Aug 27 08:24:22 2007 From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:24:22 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tiger for Sale In-Reply-To: <3aefbb4c0708270718q2964b431mbfc964ba2433362a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3aefbb4c0708270718q2964b431mbfc964ba2433362a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D2DE96.6080808@cthompson.net> Say it isn't so, John! Chris B382000331 John Webber wrote: > Selling my Tiger after nearly 20 years of ownership, > _______________________________________________ From brichards at fineeyes.com Mon Aug 27 09:32:28 2007 From: brichards at fineeyes.com (Bruce) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:32:28 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Steering Rack leak Message-ID: <001e01c7e8bf$7aab9050$6400a8c0@D3FDRK91> My mechanic is currently finishing up putting new rubber and springs in my front end. He informed me this morning that the steering rack is leaking oil. I need some help to figure out which is my best option, plus there is some time constraint (it can't sit too long at his shop). As far as I know I have 3 choices: Have rack rebuilt (hopefully with core exchange). Find a new/another rack. Buy Dales kit and find a Midget rack. Any advice and links you can give me would be appreciated. Thanks, Bruce B9470147 From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Mon Aug 27 09:41:22 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:41:22 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] u-bolts In-Reply-To: <39a841b0708222102y1a3af43dt4439bc8ecd91e249@mail.gmail.com> References: <39a841b0708222102y1a3af43dt4439bc8ecd91e249@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <39a841b0708270841s4b1e095cr9ef1d450ee02a8f6@mail.gmail.com> many thanks to all who replied to me about this. it actually turned out that a did measure correctly and the stock bolts are indeed 7/16". the 'pro comp' bolts from summit which are sold as 7/16 are not that size at all and are larger. when the 7/16 bolts i ordered from 'general spring of kansas' arrived they turned out to be the perfect size. they were cheap at $5 each too. On 8/22/07, Owain Lloyd wrote: > where are you guys getting your leaf spring u-bolts from? i couldn't > find any locally and eventually ordered a set from summit with next > day fedex :eek: - 7/16" rod, 6.5" length, 2.5" internal diameter. > > however, measure twice, order once - turns out the old u-bolts are > smaller, 3/8" rod and the 7/16" ones don't fit through the mounting > plate. > > i can't find 3/8" anywhere, not even general spring of kansas which > seems to offer any size. > > i'm thinking of just drilling out the holes to fit the 7/16" bolts. do > you think that is wise? > > thanks. From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Mon Aug 27 09:41:48 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:41:48 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Steering Rack leak Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BD0@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Do you know exactly where it's leaking oil from? If the boots are torn then it's a straightforward fix. The rack on my Tiger was damaged because the crank pulley stuck out too far, and the pulley would buzz the rack whenever the engine shifted forward. I removed the rack and soldered a patch over the hole in the tube, then put new boots on. I got the boots from Sunbeam Specialties. Classic Sunbeam may also have the boots. http://www.rootes.com/ http://classicsunbeam.com/ Theo From edstiger at charter.net Mon Aug 27 11:00:07 2007 From: edstiger at charter.net (Ed Esslinger) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 12:00:07 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION Message-ID: <001801c7e8cb$ba8dd190$6401a8c0@SEXEYNICKERS> AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION Hi Sunbeamers - I may need to ship a car from Albany NY area to south AL. I would appreciate any recommendations. Thanks Ed From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Mon Aug 27 12:06:34 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:06:34 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F79F@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> InterCity. Ask for Bob Sellers. They are the best in the business, bar none. They ship cars for my father (a professional restorer) all the time. More than half their fleet goes to Pebble Beach each year. And they shipped the Duesenberg Mormom Meteor that one best in show at Pebble. They've also shipped my Tiger and my MGC. They will take care of your baby. B. ----- Original Message ----- From: tigers-bounces+wsteinman=pogolaw.com at autox.team.net To: tigers at autox.team.net Cc: Alpine Discussion List Sent: Mon Aug 27 13:00:07 2007 Subject: [Tigers] AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION Hi Sunbeamers - I may need to ship a car from Albany NY area to south AL. I would appreciate any recommendations. Thanks Ed _______________________________________________ wsteinman at pogolaw.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From crbernardino at mac.com Mon Aug 27 12:16:55 2007 From: crbernardino at mac.com (Robert Bernardino) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:16:55 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 2007 Monterey Historic Races - Feature - Motor Trend Video Message-ID: HSC Tiger @ 3:34 minutes in Link courtesy of Michael King posted on the TE/AE Forum. Rob http://www.motortrend.com/av/features/ 112_0708_2007_monterey_historic_races_feature/ From gammaman at mokancomm.net Mon Aug 27 13:00:08 2007 From: gammaman at mokancomm.net (Richard Bruner) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 14:00:08 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Turn Signal Lever Message-ID: <009701c7e8dc$7d87a800$6401a8c0@yourus67pi6luv> Does the turn signal lever just screw in, is it staked in with a pin, or ? Richard From Tigerman67 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 27 13:48:09 2007 From: Tigerman67 at hotmail.com (Tigerman) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:48:09 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION References: <001801c7e8cb$ba8dd190$6401a8c0@SEXEYNICKERS> Message-ID: I've heard good things about passport auto transport, which I believe was bought out by FedEx Custom Critical. They use only purpose built auto enclosed trailer, large lift gates rather than ramps etc. I never got a chance to use them, but they were the ones I was going to use when I was looking at shipping a car. I read a good article on car transport once that said what ever you do, make sure that you deal with a company that actually owns trucks and as they should be able to give you a more accurate pickup and drop off days. As some companies sub contract all of the physical shipping to other companies which really compromises your ability to get a firm date on pickup and drop off, and mean that you are never sure what kind of truck will come pick up your vehicle. I wish I could find that article again, as it had some real horror stories and good advise on shipping cars. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Esslinger" To: Cc: "Alpine Discussion List" Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:00 AM Subject: [Tigers] AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION > AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION > > Hi Sunbeamers - I may need to ship a car from Albany NY area to south AL. > I > would appreciate any recommendations. Thanks Ed > _______________________________________________ > tigerman67 at hotmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From gswaybright at yahoo.com Mon Aug 27 16:57:54 2007 From: gswaybright at yahoo.com (Stephen Waybright) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Tigers] AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION In-Reply-To: <001801c7e8cb$ba8dd190$6401a8c0@SEXEYNICKERS> Message-ID: <664349.34337.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've used Intercity Lines several times and would do so again. Most recent was my move from Houston, TX to Rochester NY last Feb, and I forgot to check the anti-freeze before they picked up the cars (Anti-freeze freezing point is not a big concern in Houston). Anyway, I realized this major slip-up on my part after they had already hit the road with my Tiger, Jensen Intercpetor, Miata and Mazda 5. I called the driver on his cell, and he agreed to test all the cars at his next stop and add fresh anti-freeze as needed (which was needed in the Tiger and Jensen). This was asking a lot since the cars are really crammed in there, and he probably had to do some jockying around to get access. Bottom line, is their drivers are generally "car people", and really know to treat all the cars like a million dollar concours winner. Stephen Waybright --- Ed Esslinger wrote: > AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION > > Hi Sunbeamers - I may need to ship a car from Albany NY area to > south AL. I > would appreciate any recommendations. Thanks Ed From ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 27 17:21:08 2007 From: ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net (Ross) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:21:08 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Turn Signal Lever In-Reply-To: <009701c7e8dc$7d87a800$6401a8c0@yourus67pi6luv> Message-ID: <001201c7e900$f35675b0$6500a8c0@your9d609cd8ac> The lever is a press fit with a serration on the end to keep it from turning. Ross "Commodore Blues" Hulse -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+ross_hulse=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+ross_hulse=sbcglobal.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Richard Bruner Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:00 PM To: Tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Turn Signal Lever Does the turn signal lever just screw in, is it staked in with a pin, or ? Richard _______________________________________________ ross_hulse at sbcglobal.net Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From chris at cthompson.net Mon Aug 27 17:27:11 2007 From: chris at cthompson.net (Chris Thompson) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:27:11 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION In-Reply-To: <664349.34337.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <664349.34337.qm@web31704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46D35DCF.5030102@cthompson.net> I used Intercity when I moved my Tiger from the West Coast to the East about 10 years ago. Like Stephan said, my drivers were also car people. Everyone was very professional every step of the way. I got a substantial discount by saying "fit it in" which added a couple of weeks to delivery, but it was well worth it. Chris Stephen Waybright wrote: > I've used Intercity Lines several times and would do so again. Most > recent was my move from Houston, TX to Rochester NY last Feb, and I > forgot to check the anti-freeze before they picked up the cars > (Anti-freeze freezing point is not a big concern in Houston). Anyway, I > realized this major slip-up on my part after they had already hit the > road with my Tiger, Jensen Intercpetor, Miata and Mazda 5. I called the > driver on his cell, and he agreed to test all the cars at his next stop > and add fresh anti-freeze as needed (which was needed in the Tiger and > Jensen). This was asking a lot since the cars are really crammed in > there, and he probably had to do some jockying around to get access. > > Bottom line, is their drivers are generally "car people", and really > know to treat all the cars like a million dollar concours winner. > > Stephen Waybright > > --- Ed Esslinger wrote: > > >> AUTO TRANSPORT RECOMMENDATION >> >> Hi Sunbeamers - I may need to ship a car from Albany NY area to >> south AL. I From CoolVT at aol.com Mon Aug 27 17:57:39 2007 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:57:39 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Turn Signal Lever Message-ID: Years ago mine came apart and stem wouldn't stay in. I ended up drilling a very tiny hole through both parts and used a piece of a nail as a pin. It's a little loose, but has stayed that way for better than 15 years. Mark ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gammaman at mokancomm.net Mon Aug 27 20:10:13 2007 From: gammaman at mokancomm.net (Richard Bruner) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:10:13 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] LAT 9 Wheels Message-ID: <004c01c7e918$922eb550$6401a8c0@yourus67pi6luv> I've located a set of LAT 9 aluminum wheels...just wondering how rare these are and what they might be worth? The owner seems to know they are worth some money, but I'd like an idea of what to offer for them. Richard From DJoh797014 at aol.com Mon Aug 27 21:11:43 2007 From: DJoh797014 at aol.com (DJoh797014 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 23:11:43 EDT Subject: [Tigers] LAT 9 Wheels Message-ID: I own 5 LAT-9's that have been on my car for years. I got them after selling my set of JAP Magna wheels to Uncle Wally What are they worth. Depends on a lot of things. Are they uncut/ A lot of owners cut the Tiger head off so the could balance the wheel with tires. The aluminum is quite soft and many wheel bear deep scratches from tire irons being before modern machines can mount and dismount tires without a hole. Balancing is the big issue. The lack of center hole makes its very difficult. I understand that possibly SAAB wheels have no center holes. I use an old gearhead that still has a strobe light balancer that works and spins them on the car. The other big problem is they are 13 inch wheels. Finding H rated or better tires has become a treasure hunt. Whate are they worth. Look at what SS is selling his excellent LAT 70 repros. I think they are worth at least as much. Maybe more since no one in his right mind is reproducing them I like my LAT 9's The rarity is appreciated by fellow owners. Dave, looking for new tires to put on his LAT 9's. Need 5. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From e.coiner at cox.net Mon Aug 27 22:17:43 2007 From: e.coiner at cox.net (e.coiner at cox.net) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 21:17:43 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] LAT 9 Wheels Message-ID: <1211696803.1188274663734.JavaMail.root@fed1wml27.mgt.cox.net> These are the tires I am running. I love them. http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/18968.pdf Erich ---- DJoh797014 at aol.com wrote: > I like my LAT 9's The rarity is appreciated by fellow owners. > > Dave, looking for new tires to put on his LAT 9's. Need 5. From MWood24020 at aol.com Mon Aug 27 22:20:33 2007 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 00:20:33 EDT Subject: [Tigers] LAT 9 Wheels Message-ID: In a message dated 8/27/2007 8:18:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, e.coiner at cox.net writes: These are the tires I am running. I love them. http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/18968.pdf Erich Great choice. The Toyos are a wonderful all around "almost" DOT R tire...a little pricey, but not too bad in a 13" diameter. They also work very well in the rain, something that can't be said for the "real" DOT R's out there... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From rjw at wengco.com Tue Aug 28 06:10:50 2007 From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:10:50 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 1966 Tiger Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C55586D1@weco1.wengco.com> I have been looking for a windshield frame; without success does anyone know where I might find one? Bob From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue Aug 28 14:41:24 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:41:24 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BD7@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Hi all, I finally assembled the front hubs, rotors, etc and put a wheel on it. Turns out there is about 1/8" clearance between the inside lip of the rim and the upper control arm - the two line up pretty much exactly, but the control arm is going to move past the minimum-clearance point as the suspension moves. What's the consensus on the minimum safe (lateral) distance between the wheel and suspension parts? Removing material from the outside edge of the control arm is an option, I suppose, but I don't think that more than about 1/8" would be prudent. The wheels are 16x7, 2005 Mustang, 39mm offset. I have redrilled stock hubs with 1/4" brake hats giving me that much outboard spacing. It fits great relative to the outside of the fenders, but I'll probably have to roll the valence a little more. Theo From robin02 at mindspring.com Tue Aug 28 14:54:04 2007 From: robin02 at mindspring.com (RObin Young) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:54:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BD7@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BD7@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <01dd01c7e9b5$923333d0$6401a8c0@RobinLaptop> I ran into this with the new 16" Panasports. The clearance was there when the wheels were straight ahead but when a full turn was set, the control arm took out the balance weights and scratched the wheels. I used a 1/4" spacer between the wheel and disk as a temporary fix until one of you brighter guys solved it. Robin -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+robin02=mindspring.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+robin02=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Smit, Theo Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:41 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims Hi all, I finally assembled the front hubs, rotors, etc and put a wheel on it. Turns out there is about 1/8" clearance between the inside lip of the rim and the upper control arm - the two line up pretty much exactly, but the control arm is going to move past the minimum-clearance point as the suspension moves. What's the consensus on the minimum safe (lateral) distance between the wheel and suspension parts? Removing material from the outside edge of the control arm is an option, I suppose, but I don't think that more than about 1/8" would be prudent. The wheels are 16x7, 2005 Mustang, 39mm offset. I have redrilled stock hubs with 1/4" brake hats giving me that much outboard spacing. It fits great relative to the outside of the fenders, but I'll probably have to roll the valence a little more. Theo _______________________________________________ robin02 at mindspring.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 15:03:51 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:03:51 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims In-Reply-To: <01dd01c7e9b5$923333d0$6401a8c0@RobinLaptop> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BD7@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> <01dd01c7e9b5$923333d0$6401a8c0@RobinLaptop> Message-ID: <39a841b0708281403u2fff68e5hd15000aa0fa28b3d@mail.gmail.com> i had the same problem with 16" panasports. my first fix was 1/4" spacers which seemed to work fine. i then put lowered stub axles in and that moved the rim up out of the way of the control arm. either or both of these do the trick. On 8/28/07, RObin Young wrote: > I ran into this with the new 16" Panasports. The clearance was there when > the wheels were straight ahead but when a full turn was set, the control arm > took out the balance weights and scratched the wheels. I used a 1/4" spacer > between the wheel and disk as a temporary fix until one of you brighter guys > solved it. Robin > > -----Original Message----- > From: tigers-bounces+robin02=mindspring.com at autox.team.net > [mailto:tigers-bounces+robin02=mindspring.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > Smit, Theo > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:41 PM > To: tigers at autox.team.net > Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims > > Hi all, > I finally assembled the front hubs, rotors, etc and put a wheel on it. > Turns out there is about 1/8" clearance between the inside lip of the rim > and the upper control arm - the two line up pretty much exactly, but the > control arm is going to move past the minimum-clearance point as the > suspension moves. What's the consensus on the minimum safe (lateral) > distance between the wheel and suspension parts? Removing material from the > outside edge of the control arm is an option, I suppose, but I don't think > that more than about 1/8" would be prudent. > > The wheels are 16x7, 2005 Mustang, 39mm offset. I have redrilled stock hubs > with 1/4" brake hats giving me that much outboard spacing. It fits great > relative to the outside of the fenders, but I'll probably have to roll the > valence a little more. > > Theo > _______________________________________________ > robin02 at mindspring.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From CoolVT at aol.com Tue Aug 28 15:40:32 2007 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:40:32 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims Message-ID: Does this mean that the recommended backset of these wheels should be changed? mark ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Tue Aug 28 15:47:24 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:47:24 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BDA@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> It's interesting to hear that people are having fit problems with the Panasports. My wheels are OEM Ford wheels, so I'm doomed to accept whatever issues come my way. One thing is that the Panasports may have been sized so that they fit when you use a performance brake rotor hat between the hub and wheel. The hats I got for my setup are 1/4" thick so they already space the wheels out by that amount. I may have to go to an additional 1/4" spacer but then I'll likely have to install extra long wheel studs. Are the front Panasports six or seven inches wide? Theo ________________________________ From: CoolVT at aol.com [mailto:CoolVT at aol.com] Sent: August 28, 2007 3:41 PM To: robin02 at mindspring.com; Smit, Theo; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims Does this mean that the recommended backset of these wheels should be changed? mark ________________________________ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com . From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 15:54:01 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:54:01 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a841b0708281454g245e9a6aj5fcf1e460d638076@mail.gmail.com> i guess so but its not exactly a problem to use the spacers. i also used bolt-on 1" spacers for the rears even with the maximum offset allowed by the stud length built into the wheels. this allowed me to use 225 rear tires without fouling the leaf springs on hard cornering and also makes it look better. i should mention that i have flared arches though. without them both front and rear may protrude too much. On 8/28/07, CoolVT at aol.com wrote: > Does this mean that the recommended backset of these wheels should be > changed? > mark > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From cjcoffel at sonic.net Tue Aug 28 16:53:22 2007 From: cjcoffel at sonic.net (Chris and Jodie) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:53:22 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims References: <39a841b0708281454g245e9a6aj5fcf1e460d638076@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001a01c7e9c6$3cc3f4a0$4a448e40@pc1> The set up that was on my Tiger when I bought, and is such a good set up, the previous owner wamted them back was 15 by 6 Panasports on the front with Toyo Proxes 195 50 15. and 15 by 7 on the rear with 205 50 15 on the rear. Awesome setup. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owain Lloyd" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims >i guess so but its not exactly a problem to use the spacers. > > i also used bolt-on 1" spacers for the rears even with the maximum > offset allowed by the stud length built into the wheels. this allowed > me to use 225 rear tires without fouling the leaf springs on hard > cornering and also makes it look better. > > i should mention that i have flared arches though. without them both > front and rear may protrude too much. > > On 8/28/07, CoolVT at aol.com wrote: >> Does this mean that the recommended backset of these wheels should be >> changed? >> mark >> >> >> >> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new >> AOL at >> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour >> _______________________________________________ >> owain.lloyd at gmail.com >> >> Tigers at autox.team.net >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers > _______________________________________________ > cjcoffel at sonic.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From crabco at shaw.ca Tue Aug 28 19:19:58 2007 From: crabco at shaw.ca (Tim Webster) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:19:58 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] Wrench sizes Message-ID: <000f01c7e9da$b72e36b0$0bf94518@BigBlack> Fellow enthusiasts, Any clue on what the coreect Superslim wrench sizes were for Tigers? B of N is "slim" on details where this is concerned. Regards, Tim Webster From edstiger at charter.net Tue Aug 28 19:32:38 2007 From: edstiger at charter.net (Ed Esslinger) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:32:38 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] auto transport Message-ID: <003b01c7e9dc$7c2a91b0$6401a8c0@SEXEYNICKERS> Thanks for all the info. Looks like Passport Transport gets the most recommendations. Ed From robin02 at mindspring.com Tue Aug 28 20:23:25 2007 From: robin02 at mindspring.com (RObin Young) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:23:25 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims In-Reply-To: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BDA@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> References: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BDA@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Message-ID: <01ef01c7e9e3$945c1860$6401a8c0@RobinLaptop> Theo, they are 7" wheels. Steve Waybright has mentioned that 8" will fit on the rear ....of course his rear end is somewhat different than stock. RObin _____ From: Smit, Theo [mailto:Theo.Smit at dynastream.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:47 PM To: CoolVT at aol.com; robin02 at mindspring.com; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: RE: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims It's interesting to hear that people are having fit problems with the Panasports. My wheels are OEM Ford wheels, so I'm doomed to accept whatever issues come my way. One thing is that the Panasports may have been sized so that they fit when you use a performance brake rotor hat between the hub and wheel. The hats I got for my setup are 1/4" thick so they already space the wheels out by that amount. I may have to go to an additional 1/4" spacer but then I'll likely have to install extra long wheel studs. Are the front Panasports six or seven inches wide? Theo _____ From: CoolVT at aol.com [mailto:CoolVT at aol.com] Sent: August 28, 2007 3:41 PM To: robin02 at mindspring.com; Smit, Theo; tigers at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Tigers] Clearance on 16" rims Does this mean that the recommended backset of these wheels should be changed? mark _____ Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com . From vegaslegal at aol.com Wed Aug 29 10:11:04 2007 From: vegaslegal at aol.com (vegaslegal at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:11:04 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Lat 9 wheel prices Message-ID: <8C9B86E55935AE1-970-1D5D@webmail-da02.sysops.aol.com> I paid about a grand for a set of four unmolested wheels about four years ago, and felt I got a deal. There wasn't a fifth one offered, but I feel fine with this as I have the original spare tire still on the original rim in the trunk. ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From GRMTim at aol.com Wed Aug 29 10:59:28 2007 From: GRMTim at aol.com (GRMTim at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:59:28 EDT Subject: [Tigers] Lat 9 wheel prices Message-ID: I paid $1200 about two years ago for a nice set that need to be restored. That was a good deal. I tried to buy a fifth one on eBay last year. I lost interest when it went for over $500. Now I am thinking of getting rid of my wheels, as they are too narrow for the power we are making. Tim Suddard Publisher; Classic Motorsports and Grassroots Motorsports magazines www.classicmotorsports.net www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Phone: (386) 673-4148 Fax: (386) 673-6040 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From brichards at fineeyes.com Thu Aug 30 15:16:32 2007 From: brichards at fineeyes.com (Bruce) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:16:32 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] rear brake drum Message-ID: <000601c7eb4b$0b93ab10$6400a8c0@D3FDRK91> Got my car back today, all rubber in front end replaced, new springs, rack Is fine. Car drives great now. The other problem I have is on the driver side rear drum, my mechanic did not have time to look at it. I have take the drum off myself (took about 15 minutes, very tight). What is happening is it doesn't seem to release when parking brake is off, cable is loose, with drum off it looked fine. But when I drive you can feel it..grab..grab..grab..grab...... at about 10 mph it will stop the car in about 10 feet. My mechanic says he can take some surface off of the pads, depending on the specs. I also figure I might can get the drum turned to free up a little wiggle room. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, B9470147 From srwick at hotmail.com Wed Aug 29 15:24:07 2007 From: srwick at hotmail.com (steve wick) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:24:07 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] rear brake drum References: <000601c7eb4b$0b93ab10$6400a8c0@D3FDRK91> Message-ID: There is an adjusting screw on the backing plate. Have you tried adjusting that? It might just be that the brakes are too tight. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce To: tigers at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:16 PM Subject: [Tigers] rear brake drum Got my car back today, all rubber in front end replaced, new springs, rack Is fine. Car drives great now. The other problem I have is on the driver side rear drum, my mechanic did not have time to look at it. I have take the drum off myself (took about 15 minutes, very tight). What is happening is it doesn't seem to release when parking brake is off, cable is loose, with drum off it looked fine. But when I drive you can feel it..grab..grab..grab..grab...... at about 10 mph it will stop the car in about 10 feet. My mechanic says he can take some surface off of the pads, depending on the specs. I also figure I might can get the drum turned to free up a little wiggle room. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, B9470147 _______________________________________________ srwick at hotmail.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From rjw at wengco.com Thu Aug 30 08:29:23 2007 From: rjw at wengco.com (Robert J. Wanty) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:29:23 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] 66 Tiger Message-ID: <27F494EAF05F5741B4BF2215652F46C5558761@weco1.wengco.com> The body shop is getting ready to paint the car and can't seem to find color code 86 to match the original green; does anyone have a source or mix for that paint? Bob B382001318LRXFE From kneedrag at core.com Thu Aug 30 15:17:54 2007 From: kneedrag at core.com (Mark Rense) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:17:54 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers - A Shocking Question! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, I've rebuilt/upgraded all my suspension (braced cross-member, Dale's springs, extra leaf on rear) and am ready for new shocks. I am leaning towards the Edelbrock shocks offered for Tigers (33880/34880) as I do drive at a brisk pace occasionally, and so I would appreciate any feedback on those or any other high performance dampers (Spax, etc). The car currently has unrecognizable-brand truck shocks, no doubt the PO's effort to exert control on the cheap. Bugz From shutchin at netjets.com Thu Aug 30 15:24:00 2007 From: shutchin at netjets.com (Scott Hutchinson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:24:00 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers - A Shocking Question! Message-ID: Very happy with Konis. Scott Hutchinson Assistant Director of Operations Netjets International Office 860.292.1191 Mobile 843.290.2805 This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. From owain.lloyd at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 15:25:12 2007 From: owain.lloyd at gmail.com (Owain Lloyd) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:25:12 -0500 Subject: [Tigers] Tigers - A Shocking Question! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39a841b0708301425x40c66424ocd3971ea3ca0ed38@mail.gmail.com> CAT are out of stock on the edelbrocks. let me know if you find a source. i have the old style konis. i'm thinking about putting the new style in which are adjustable without removing them. On 8/30/07, Mark Rense wrote: > Hi All, > I've rebuilt/upgraded all my suspension (braced cross-member, Dale's > springs, extra leaf on rear) and am ready for new shocks. I am leaning > towards the Edelbrock shocks offered for Tigers (33880/34880) as I do drive > at a brisk pace occasionally, and so I would appreciate any feedback on > those or any other high performance dampers (Spax, etc). The car currently > has unrecognizable-brand truck shocks, no doubt the PO's effort to exert > control on the cheap. > > Bugz > _______________________________________________ > owain.lloyd at gmail.com > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers From rootes1 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 30 16:52:18 2007 From: rootes1 at earthlink.net (Norman C. Miller) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:52:18 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] HUNTING THE MAN Message-ID: Anybody have contact info for a Brian Boyer. Last I heard he was in Takoma Park Maryland Thanks, ncm -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.12/979 - Release Date: 8/29/2007 8:21 PM From rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 30 21:10:26 2007 From: rfeibusch1 at earthlink.net (Richard Feibusch) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:10:26 -0800 Subject: [Tigers] San Diego British Car Day - Sunday, October 7 Message-ID: >From: "Steve" >To: "Richard Feibusch" >Subject: San Diego British Car Day >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:30:10 -0700 > >Hi Folks-- > >Just a reminder . . . > >This year we are NOT snail mailing the Registration Forms for the upcoming (Sunday, October 7th) San Diego British Car Day. 28th ANNUAL SAN DIEGO BRITISH CAR DAY & PICNIC Sunday, October 7, 2007 Fairbrook Farms, 4949 S. Mission Road Fallbrook, California (directions below) www.sandiegobritishcarday.org > >I've attached the form and explanation page for your convenience. Pre-Registration is only $20.00. By Pre-registering you save $5.00 at the gate, you save considerable time (by not having to wait in line . . . on what is usually a warm day!) and it allows the organizers to order the correct number of trophies and organize the field for the number and type of cars pre-registered. > >Please share the form with any and all who are interested!!! > >In order to be pre-registered, we need to have your form and check returned to us by September 10th. > >We hope to see you all there! We'll have wonderful vendors and the Cameron Highlanders Bagpipers--back by popular demand. The last 5 years, we have been averaging around 430 wonderful British cars! > >Plan on bringing a picnic and your own beverages, or enjoying the wonderful food provided by our ultra fantastic food vendor, Hogg's Beach BBQ. > >QUESTIONS? Please call San Diego British Car Day Info Line: 760-746-1458 Steve Kirby From j.brawley at comcast.net Fri Aug 31 08:58:37 2007 From: j.brawley at comcast.net (j.brawley at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:58:37 +0000 Subject: [Tigers] JAP Magna wheels on a Tiger?? Message-ID: <083120071458.21107.46D82C9D000B045C000052732200734830970A04990E9D0DD206@comcast.net> Does anyone have a picture of J.A.P. (JA Pearce) Magna wheels on a Tiger?? I found a set which will fit nicely on my Tiger, but can't seem to find much information about them. Anyone have picture or link to where I can find some? Thanks, John From jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 31 13:50:43 2007 From: jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk (Jeff Howarth) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 20:50:43 +0100 Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines Message-ID: <6XRIUcXTEH2GFwkI@v8tiger.demon.co.uk> All, just to prompt a bit of discussing on the list as its pretty quiet of late. Ebay Item number: 300146707347 for a car at this price the lines on this car are terrible. It looks like the doors trunk and hood thrown at is form a distance ! Not worth the starting price even though its over shiny. Thoughts ? -- Jeff Howarth From wsteinman at pogolaw.com Fri Aug 31 14:12:25 2007 From: wsteinman at pogolaw.com (Steinman, Bill) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:12:25 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines In-Reply-To: <6XRIUcXTEH2GFwkI@v8tiger.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <6C74404059EB134FBA542DA75DD8488FE7F837@WDC-EXCH-VS01.US.PGFM.NET> No worse than mine, I'd have to say. Seems like a very pretty car. Hope it fetches a good price! Bill S. 2005 Lotus Elise 1968 Triumph TR-250 1968 MGC Tourer 1965 Sunbeam Tiger 1965 Austin Healey 3000 Mk III www.TR-250.com Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows... -----Original Message----- From: tigers-bounces+wsteinman=pogolaw.com at autox.team.net [mailto:tigers-bounces+wsteinman=pogolaw.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Howarth Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:51 PM To: tigers at autox.team.net Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines All, just to prompt a bit of discussing on the list as its pretty quiet of late. Ebay Item number: 300146707347 for a car at this price the lines on this car are terrible. It looks like the doors trunk and hood thrown at is form a distance ! Not worth the starting price even though its over shiny. Thoughts ? -- Jeff Howarth _______________________________________________ wsteinman at pogolaw.com Tigers at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and delete the copy you received. IRS CIRCULAR 230 Disclosure: Under U.S. Treasury regulations, we are required to inform you that any tax advice contained in this e-mail or any attachment hereto is not intended to be used, and cannot be used, to avoid penalties imposed under the Internal Revenue Code. Thank you. From Theo.Smit at dynastream.com Fri Aug 31 14:18:09 2007 From: Theo.Smit at dynastream.com (Smit, Theo) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:18:09 -0600 Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines Message-ID: <60FEBF2884916145962401D18221D157108BED@dsimail.ad.garmin.com> Well the shine and the lighting certainly highlight all the imperfections in the bodywork. You can't claim that they're trying to hide anything - or maybe they're hoping you'll ignore all the other stuff. A few hours of work would likely fix the shut lines - unless the car has been tweaked big time. When was it decided that shine should be extended to tires and underhood rubber parts? As far as I've seen, anytime anyone did that to tires they turn a hideous brown color and crack in the sidewalls about ten minutes after it sees sunlight, and the underhood rubber components (hoses etc.) all turn to goo. I used Armorall on a vinyl car seat ONCE. Spent the next couple of hours after the first drive getting it the hell off the seat. Theo From awtiger at cox.net Fri Aug 31 14:29:10 2007 From: awtiger at cox.net (awtiger at cox.net) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:29:10 -0400 Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines Message-ID: <16060367.1188592150529.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml19.mgt.cox.net> Whoo, boy...I echo your sentiment about that shiny stuff!!! Whenever I buy a new car and they want to send it through make-ready, I always tell the salesman, "If it comes back with that slick sh*t all over the interior, then I hope you can sell it to someone else." To me, that's a deal-breaker!!!! As for using it on my Tiger or Alpine, I would think the phrase "no friggin' way" would just about cut it. Andy Walker Edmond, OK B382001600LRXFE B9006857LRX From MWood24020 at aol.com Fri Aug 31 14:31:29 2007 From: MWood24020 at aol.com (MWood24020 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:31:29 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines Message-ID: Try Armor All on a motorcycle seat...I did...ONCE!!! Slid right off...heck, I was only 16, didn't know any better. :-) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From tgrrr at peoplepc.com Fri Aug 31 14:58:06 2007 From: tgrrr at peoplepc.com (Bob Hokanson) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:58:06 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines References: <6XRIUcXTEH2GFwkI@v8tiger.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <007601c7ec11$a1ba9fb0$7ae9f204@bob> Why would the windshield wipers be parked on the driver's side? Bob H > Ebay Item number: 300146707347 From CoolVT at aol.com Fri Aug 31 15:00:59 2007 From: CoolVT at aol.com (CoolVT at aol.com) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:00:59 EDT Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines Message-ID: In a message dated 8/31/2007 3:53:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff at v8tiger.demon.co.uk writes: 300146707347 I think you're right. It looks like parts were taken off to paint or whatever, and then hung back on with little regard to alignment. Strange because the car is pretty desirable in that it appears to have most of the original parts....shroud, air filter, oil filter, brake booster, etc.. and it appears that a lot of time and expense was taken in making it presentable. Wonder if it's really a 20,000 mile car? mark ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mmichels at socal.rr.com Fri Aug 31 19:46:13 2007 From: mmichels at socal.rr.com (Mike Michels) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:46:13 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines References: <6XRIUcXTEH2GFwkI@v8tiger.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <01ab01c7ec39$e341cda0$8a01a8c0@delldimension> The shut lines do look peculiar. Maybe more noticeable in red, but worse than my car. Agree that it's overly detailed, but that would change. dash needs work and vinyl top and tonneau aren't worthy of top dollar price. some of the bright work looks kinda crooked. I too was wondering about the wiper position, but that could easily be changed. From strombecker at telus.net Fri Aug 31 22:22:25 2007 From: strombecker at telus.net (TM) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 21:22:25 -0700 Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines References: <6XRIUcXTEH2GFwkI@v8tiger.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <007a01c7ec4f$b3aa1c30$657ba8c0@TERRYSDESKTOP> Jeff I noticed that the seam at the front and back of the doors are filled in by the looks of it which is not correct and may indicate bondo. I bought a hood from some one that was like this, looked good in pictures, but when I got it , was full of bondo and rust. A guy from Florida named Joe. The amp guage is also wrong, as is the radio unit. The battery tray is wrong also, and the center section of the rear diff should be red glyptol. Trunk hinges are incorrect color and the brake booster is incorrect. This is to name just a few items. I would expect more from a car in this price range. But on the other hand, it makes nice correct tigers look more valuable and then some people may not care about the little details, just my observations. Terry B9471362 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Howarth" To: Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [Tigers] ebay car shut lines > All, > > > just to prompt a bit of discussing on the list as its pretty quiet of > late. > > > Ebay Item number: 300146707347 > > for a car at this price the lines on this car are terrible. > > It looks like the doors trunk and hood thrown at is form a distance ! > > Not worth the starting price even though its over shiny. > > > Thoughts ? > > > > -- > Jeff Howarth > _______________________________________________ > strombecker at telus.net > > Tigers at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/tigers