<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">HealeyRick</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:healeyrick@yahoo.com">healeyrick@yahoo.com</a>></span><br>Date: Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 2:47 PM<br>Subject: Bugeye Floor Color<br>To: <a href="mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com">healeyrik@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:healeyrik@gmail.com">healeyrik@gmail.com</a>><br></div><br>From the thread below, it appears that many bugeyes were only painted underneath in the brown primer. Apparently, it differed according to the painter or maybe how much paint he had left in his spray pot<br><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Rick<div>"Madman in a death machine" Follow My Nasty Boy Build: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo</a></div></div></div>
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<div><b>From:</b> FREDERICK JORDAN <<a href="mailto:frejor33@aol.com" target="_blank">frejor33@aol.com</a>></div><div><b>To:</b> Jonathan W-Bird <<a href="mailto:sprinzelsebring@aol.com" target="_blank">sprinzelsebring@aol.com</a>></div><div><b>Cc:</b> HealeyRick <<a href="mailto:healeyrick@yahoo.com" target="_blank">healeyrick@yahoo.com</a>>; BRIAN THORNTON <<a href="mailto:healeynut@aol.com" target="_blank">healeynut@aol.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:randyhicks@me.com" target="_blank">randyhicks@me.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:randyhicks@me.com" target="_blank">randyhicks@me.com</a>>; Jim Smalley <<a href="mailto:jimsmalley@comcast.net" target="_blank">jimsmalley@comcast.net</a>>; Rick Fisk <<a href="mailto:refisk@chartermi.net" target="_blank">refisk@chartermi.net</a>>; Gerard Chateauvieux <<a href="mailto:gerardc221133@gmail.com" target="_blank">gerardc221133@gmail.com</a>>; Peter Downie <<a href="mailto:shirttail8@aol.com" target="_blank">shirttail8@aol.com</a>>; Jay Fishbein <<a href="mailto:jfishbein@snet.com" target="_blank">jfishbein@snet.com</a>>; Alan Fisher <<a href="mailto:keenefrogeye@gmail.com" target="_blank">keenefrogeye@gmail.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:bgearns@yahoo.com" target="_blank">bgearns@yahoo.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:bgearns@yahoo.com" target="_blank">bgearns@yahoo.com</a>>; Ken Grasing <<a href="mailto:ken.grasing@gmail.com" target="_blank">ken.grasing@gmail.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:benkenion@gmail.com" target="_blank">benkenion@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:benkenion@gmail.com" target="_blank">benkenion@gmail.com</a>>; George Marinos <<a href="mailto:Gmari2@verizon.net" target="_blank">Gmari2@verizon.net</a>></div><div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 08:57:02 PM EDT</div><div><b>Subject:</b> Re: interesting discovery</div><div><br></div>
<div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856"><div>So considering we seem to be in agreement that most of the bottoms of the Sprites ( at least MK I ) were only primer painted, shouldn’t we address this in the standards AND perhaps put this information out now rather than later since there are<div>cars in the process of restoration that would be docked points in judging? I’d hate to be the judge that had to tell someone that their well painted car was incorrect with body color on the underside.</div><div>Fred<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856yqt38942"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Jonathan W-Bird <<a href="mailto:sprinzelsebring@aol.com" target="_blank">sprinzelsebring@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856yqt98730"><div><div>Fantastic stuff!</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Has everyone seen the Abingdon (Sprite/Midget) assembly line footage, from 1969, that I have?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>It provides some insight into how Mk.I Sprites were originally built ten years earlier.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div>Jonathan</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856composer_signature"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent from my Galaxy</div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div align="left" style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: HealeyRick <<a href="mailto:healeyrick@yahoo.com" target="_blank">healeyrick@yahoo.com</a>> </div><div>Date: 02/10/2022 00:34 (GMT+01:00) </div><div>To: FREDERICK JORDAN <<a href="mailto:frejor33@aol.com" target="_blank">frejor33@aol.com</a>>, BRIAN THORNTON <<a href="mailto:healeynut@aol.com" target="_blank">healeynut@aol.com</a>>, Jonathan W-Bird <<a href="mailto:sprinzelsebring@aol.com" target="_blank">sprinzelsebring@aol.com</a>> </div><div>Cc: <a href="mailto:randyhicks@me.com" target="_blank">randyhicks@me.com</a>, Jim Smalley <<a href="mailto:jimsmalley@comcast.net" target="_blank">jimsmalley@comcast.net</a>>, Rick Fisk <<a href="mailto:refisk@chartermi.net" target="_blank">refisk@chartermi.net</a>>, Gerard Chateauvieux <<a href="mailto:gerardc221133@gmail.com" target="_blank">gerardc221133@gmail.com</a>>, Peter Downie <<a href="mailto:shirttail8@aol.com" target="_blank">shirttail8@aol.com</a>>, Jay Fishbein <<a href="mailto:jfishbein@snet.com" target="_blank">jfishbein@snet.com</a>>, Alan Fisher <<a href="mailto:keenefrogeye@gmail.com" target="_blank">keenefrogeye@gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:bgearns@yahoo.com" target="_blank">bgearns@yahoo.com</a>, Ken Grasing <<a href="mailto:ken.grasing@gmail.com" target="_blank">ken.grasing@gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:benkenion@gmail.com" target="_blank">benkenion@gmail.com</a>, George Marinos <<a href="mailto:gmari2@verizon.net" target="_blank">gmari2@verizon.net</a>> </div><div>Subject: Re: interesting discovery </div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><div dir="ltr">The Rotodip was illustrated on Minis here: </div><div dir="ltr"><a shape="rect" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9g6FWriz-g" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">Bmc Presents Wizardry On Wheels Reel 2 (1961)</a> and from the way the rusted in the states it was as useful as a screen door in a submarine.</div><div dir="ltr">Rick<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp8a423432enhancr_card_4854466436" style="max-width:400px;font-family:YahooSans,Helvetica Neue,Segoe UI,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><a shape="rect" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:#000!important" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9g6FWriz-g" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank"><table style="max-width:400px" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="400"><table style="max-width:400px;border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(224,228,233);border-radius:2px" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="top" style="background-color:rgb(0,0,0);background-size:cover;border-radius:2px 2px 0px 0px;min-height:175px" height="175" bgcolor="#000000" background="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/7U6sd3NxLUoiIsIVAqiQhA--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o9g6FWriz-g/hqdefault.jpg.cf.jpg"><table style="width:100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="top" style="background-color:transparent;border-radius:2px 2px 0px 0px;min-height:175px" bgcolor="transparent" background="https://s.yimg.com/cv/ae/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV21/1/enhancr_gradient-400x175.png"><table style="width:100%;min-height:175px" height="175" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="text-align:left;padding:15px 0 0 15px;vertical-align:top"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="text-align:right;padding:15px 15px 0 0;vertical-align:top"><div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1"><table align="center" style="background:#fff;width:100%;max-width:400px;border-radius:0 0 2px 2px;border-top:1px solid rgb(224,228,233)" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px 0 16px 12px;vertical-align:top;border-radius:0 0 0 2px"><img style="min-width:36px;margin-top:3px" height="36" src="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="vertical-align:middle;padding:12px 24px 16px 12px;width:99%;font-family:YahooSans,Helvetica Neue,Segoe UI,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;border-radius:0 0 2px 0"><h2 style="font-size:14px;line-height:19px;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-family:YahooSans,Helvetica Neue,Segoe UI,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(29,34,40);max-width:314px">Bmc Presents Wizardry On Wheels Reel 2 (1961)</h2><p style="font-size:12px;line-height:16px;margin:0px;color:rgb(151,158,168)"></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></a></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div>"Madman in a death machine" Follow My Nasty Boy Build: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo</a></div></div></div>
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On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 05:18:53 PM EDT, Jonathan W-Bird <<a href="mailto:sprinzelsebring@aol.com" target="_blank">sprinzelsebring@aol.com</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095"><div><div>Hi,</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>This primer paint process was known as 'Slipper Dipping'. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>All Sprite (and Midget) bodyshells were painted with primer at BMC Cowley, in Coventry, before receiving their final top coats, and were then transported, by road, to Abingdon for final assembly.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>At each stage of the process another body tag number was added.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>The other primer paint process employed by BMC (this time at Longbridge, in Birmingham), was 'Rotor Dipping', where the bodyshell was mounted on a skewer and fully immersed whilst being rotated.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Sadly, BMC Cowley didn't have this process and the Sprite bodyshell was so constructed as not to allow for skewer mounting.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Jonathan</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095composer_signature"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent from my Galaxy</div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div align="left" style="font-size:100%;color:#000000"><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095yqtfd80589"><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: FREDERICK JORDAN <<a href="mailto:frejor33@aol.com" target="_blank">frejor33@aol.com</a>> </div><div>Date: 01/10/2022 15:21 (GMT+01:00) </div><div>To: BRIAN THORNTON <<a href="mailto:healeynut@aol.com" target="_blank">healeynut@aol.com</a>> </div><div>Cc: <a href="mailto:randyhicks@me.com" target="_blank">randyhicks@me.com</a>, Jim Smalley <<a href="mailto:jimsmalley@comcast.net" target="_blank">jimsmalley@comcast.net</a>>, Rick Neville <<a href="mailto:healeyrick@yahoo.com" target="_blank">healeyrick@yahoo.com</a>>, Rick Fisk <<a href="mailto:refisk@chartermi.net" target="_blank">refisk@chartermi.net</a>>, Jonathan Bird <<a href="mailto:sprinzelsebring@aol.com" target="_blank">sprinzelsebring@aol.com</a>>, Gerard Chateauvieux <<a href="mailto:gerardc221133@gmail.com" target="_blank">gerardc221133@gmail.com</a>>, Peter Downie <<a href="mailto:shirttail8@aol.com" target="_blank">shirttail8@aol.com</a>>, Jay Fishbein <<a href="mailto:jfishbein@snet.com" target="_blank">jfishbein@snet.com</a>>, Alan Fisher <<a href="mailto:keenefrogeye@gmail.com" target="_blank">keenefrogeye@gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:bgearns@yahoo.com" target="_blank">bgearns@yahoo.com</a>, Ken Grasing <<a href="mailto:ken.grasing@gmail.com" target="_blank">ken.grasing@gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:benkenion@gmail.com" target="_blank">benkenion@gmail.com</a>, George Marinos <<a href="mailto:Gmari2@verizon.net" target="_blank">Gmari2@verizon.net</a>> </div><div>Subject: Re: interesting discovery </div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095yqtfd72157">Interesting as our concours standard don’t address this! Hmmmm!<div>Fred<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Oct 1, 2022, at 9:13 AM, BRIAN THORNTON <<a href="mailto:healeynut@aol.com" target="_blank">healeynut@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Hello Fred,<div><br clear="none"></div><div>The bodies were dip primed in a red-ish/brown primer. We know that they were dip primed because one will find this primer inside enclosed boxed sections of the body like the front cross member behind the radiator. I removed and replaced the lower panel of the crossmember on our AN5 because jacks had dented this panel and it looked awful! When I drilled out the spot welds and ground away the seam welds, a nice coat of red-ish/brown primer saw the light of day for the first time in this enclosed box section.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Regarding color coat paint coverage of the underside of the boot/floorpans itself, this appears to vary based on individual application by the painter. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>The following photos (albeit small) from HAN5L/24858 illustrate that this car did not receive much in the way of color coat on the floors/frame horns. It appears the the entire underside of the car remained in primer.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><img id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv085648109542902F9C-BDC5-4B64-8C52-144D1F867C4D" width="200" height="150" alt="53.jpg"></div><div> <br clear="none"><div><img id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv085648109512F82E2F-BA28-4EFB-BE01-44798F770EFD" width="200" height="150" alt="48.jpg"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>This is AN5L/4103 (Speedwell Blue). This California car’s floors are entirely covered in dip primer.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><img id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv08564810950D70992B-FF80-4298-997F-F0CD7C68E0F6" alt="c524-frame-remote.jpg"></div><div><img id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv08564810956AC0E3A0-6BCB-470C-A429-4285D691F5C8" alt="c524-underleft-thumb.jpg"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><img id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095E8B91C4D-10C9-4EAD-BAF2-4EB38D8743CC" alt="c524-underright-thumb.jpg"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>What you’ve discovered is consistent with AN5 painting process. Thanks for sharing.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Brian</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 1, 2022, at 7:10 AM, FREDERICK JORDAN <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:frejor33@aol.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">frejor33@aol.com</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none"><div><div><br clear="none"><span id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095cid:995B6992-7F65-46A9-A118-803A051C5FD1"><image.jpg></span>We recently replaced the gas tank on Peter Downie’s 59. This is the first time the tank has been dropped. To our surprise there was no green paint above the tank but appears to be the factory brownish primer. <div>Fred<br clear="none"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Sep 27, 2022, at 9:59 AM, Randy Hicks <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:randyhicks@me.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">randyhicks@me.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Hi Fred, I’m not totally sure what you are asking here.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Are you questioning the viability of Sprites in Concours or the effort to update Sprite Guidelines? Or Both?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I did see the 501 Sprite at Enclave and it was quite nice. It did receive a solid Gold Award despite the lack of original floor covering. (It did not receive the 20 point deduction some wanted as it did not have carpeted floor covering.) The max. point deduction allowed was 10 points for Floor Covering, Padding and Fasteners. I did not do a count on the number of Sprites in attendance, but there was quite a few. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Just for reference, in the last 10 years, 64 Big Healeys and 11 Sprites have been thru Concours Inspections in the US.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>With regard to the Sprite Guidelines (& Big Healey Guidelines), I have never felt they were for Concours Inspections Only. I believe they are a document designed detail how the cars were originally produced. whether they are used for Concours Inspection or used to just maintain as close to original. If not recorded as much as possible, many details will be lost in years to come. That is where I see the true value.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Just my $.02.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Randy</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>…………………….</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div> <br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sep 20, 2022, at 5:54 PM, FREDERICK JORDAN <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:frejor33@aol.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">frejor33@aol.com</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none"><div><div>To my understanding, there was only one Sprite in concours at the Enclave. This begs a serious question. What are we doing here? Is it the lack of interest in the majority of the Sprite community? I’ve always been an originality guy. Not to beat a dead horse but are the floor mats part of a perception that one can’t do well in concours even though it’s a (for the most part) an even playing field? What about later Sprites? The lack of interest is something to consider. BTW as far as I understand, 501 did place gold. Regardless of floor covering. If we continue, how do we encourage concours in the Sprite world in a group that has somewhat disregarded Sprites in general. Sad but true imho. The one Healey that actually survived albeit as a Midget until 1979! What are the attitudes across the pond? <div>Fred<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Sep 16, 2022, at 12:44 PM, Jim Smalley <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jimsmalley@comcast.net" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">jimsmalley@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Gentlemen,<div><br clear="none"></div><div>As I said yesterday when I agreed with Bruce, please, no more pre-judging by emails. The matter is closed at this point. We continue to stray from the original topic.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I will discuss the matter with the Sprite judging team before next week's judging at Enclave. I will review past Sprite judging sheets over the years this weekend to see how past judges have scored this issue.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>It is obvious that the Sprite committee has their work cut out for them this fall regarding judging sheets and their scores. I am a bit disappointed that we didn't have very much feedback from other committee members regarding this issue. Thank you to those that took the time to respond.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Have a good weekend and drive safe on your way to Enclave.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Thanks </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Jim Smalley</div><div>National judging chairman <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">Sent from phone</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Sep 16, 2022, at 8:30 AM, BRIAN THORNTON <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:healeynut@aol.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">healeynut@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Hello Randy,<div><br clear="none"></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><font face="HelveticaNeue">When you are judging do you always mark the <u>maximum deduction</u> </font></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div>Absolutely not. In the case that we are discussing, (floor coverings), both Big Healey and Sprite Score Sheet possess Standard Deductions. I believe that the Standard Deductions in the existing Sprite Score Sheets are applicable for floor coverings that are manufactured in materials other than carpet in AN5/AN6 cars (my logic follows).</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div><div>So, you are telling me that you would rather see an entrant use Carpet instead of trying to make the floor covering look as close as possible to Original? Less points for Carpet? I can not follow the logic here! This is not how we encourage entrant to get their cars as lose as possible to original</div></div></div></div></blockquote><br clear="none"></div><div>My logic is:</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>1. Original rubber mats are original</div><div>2. Carpet is a non-original floor covering. The Score Sheets dictate the Standard Deduction that should be assessed based on carpet type. No consideration is given to how closely the carpet installation compares/contrasts with the original rubber mat design or installation.</div><div>3. All other materials used for the purpose of covering floors are non-original. </div><div>4. <span style="color:rgb(54,57,64);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;text-align:center;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">∴ </span>Floor coverings manufactured from non-original material/s should be subject to the same Standard Deduction as carpet</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sep 16, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Randy Hicks <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:randyhicks@me.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">randyhicks@me.com</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none"><div><div><div>Brian, just a couple quick comments and then I’m out until after Enclave.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>First, You stated:</div><div><br clear="none"></div><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;font-size:14px"> "</span><b style="font-family:HelveticaNeue"><span style="font-size:14px">(“rubber like or close attempts” while simple, is entirely subjective. This is why I raised the question regarding the Hardura installation that you’re going to witness next week. Is Hardura rubber like, the surface kinda is. Is the attempt to match the original design of the molded rubber floor covering close, sort of…).”</span></b><div><font face="HelveticaNeue"><span style="font-size:14px"><b><br clear="none"></b></span></font></div><div><font face="HelveticaNeue">Yes, our judging is very subjective. When you are judging do you always mark the <u>maximum deduction</u> to a line item if you are going to deduct for it? Do you ever deduct 1/2 point vs. 1 point, deduct 4 points instead of max 5 for a line item? If you do, you are the first judge I’ve ever seen do it. <br clear="none"></font><div><font face="HelveticaNeue"><span style="font-size:14px"><b><br clear="none"></b></span></font></div><div><font face="HelveticaNeue"><span style="font-size:14px"><b>Secondly, You state:</b></span></font></div><div><font face="HelveticaNeue"><span style="font-size:14px"><b><br clear="none"></b></span></font></div><div><ul style="font-family:HelveticaNeue"><li><span style="font-size:14px">"Original mats = No deduction for originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition</span></li><li><span style="font-size:14px">Carpet - 15 - 20 point deduction (depending on carpet type) for non-originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition</span></li><li><span style="font-size:14px">Any other material - 20 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition"</span></li></ul><div><br clear="none"></div><div>So, you are telling me that you would rather see an entrant use Carpet instead of trying to make the floor covering look as close as possible to Original? Less points for Carpet? I can not follow the logic here! This is not how we encourage entrant to get their cars as lose as possible to original, and yes, there needs to be some deduction.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Randy</div><div><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sep 16, 2022, at 6:12 AM, BRIAN THORNTON <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:healeynut@aol.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">healeynut@aol.com</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none"><div><div><div><ul><li><span style="font-size:14px">Original mats = No originality deduction <b>(I agree)</b></span></li><li><span style="font-size:14px">Carpet - Up to 20 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6 points for condition <b>(I agree)</b></span></li><li><span style="font-size:14px">Rubber like or close attempts to match the original - Up to 10 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6 points for condition </span><b><span style="font-size:14px">(“rubber like or close attempts” while simple, is entirely subjective. This is why I raised the question regarding the Hardura installation that you’re going to witness next week. Is Hardura rubber like, the surface kinda is. Is the attempt to match the original design of the molded rubber floor covering close, sort of…).</span></b></li></ul><div><span style="font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="font-size:14px">Bruce has presented the best rationale that I’ve seen as to why the Standard Deductions for carpet apply to all other floor covering materials/types other than the original rubber floor mats. </span></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><p style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">"The Standard Deductions for floor coverings for Sprites were established to address anything other than the original floor coverings. On AN5’s this meant rubber mats, on AN6-AN9’s this meant carpet. They were worded to cover what had usually been presented other than the original materials. </p><p style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">They call out the two types of carpeting because they were used in AN6- AN9 (in the case of cut pile) or are offered by many current suppliers (in the case of loop). We did not call out shag carpeting or indoor/outdoor carpeting. In my opinion, just because someone shows up with a material that is not specifically called out in the Standard Deductions, does not mean they should receive less than a Standard Deduction." </p></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="font-size:14px">The resulting simple (and importantly objective) Standard Deduction scale for AN5/AN6 cars is as follows in my view:</span></div><div><span style="font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><ul><li><span style="font-size:14px">Original mats = No deduction for originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition</span></li><li><span style="font-size:14px">Carpet - 15 - 20 point deduction (depending on carpet type) for non-originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition</span></li><li><span style="font-size:14px">Any other material - 20 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition</span></li></ul><div><span style="font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="font-size:14px">Have a safe and enjoyable trip for those attending Enclave.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="font-size:14px">Regards,</span></div><div><span style="font-size:14px"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="font-size:14px">Brian</span></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sep 15, 2022, at 7:37 PM, Randy Hicks <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:randyhicks@me.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">randyhicks@me.com</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none"><div><div>Yes Rick it i s very simple.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>• Original Mats - No Deduction.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>• Rubber like or close attempts to match original - Up to 10 Point Deduction on Originality, 6 points Condition.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>• Carpet - Up to 20 Point Deduction, 6 points Condition.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>That is how I interrupt the Sprite Guidelines and Score Sheets. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Randy<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sep 15, 2022, at 7:22 PM, HealeyRick <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:healeyrick@yahoo.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">healeyrick@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none"><div><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><div dir="ltr">In my view we are making this a whole lot harder than it needs to be solely because the extreme difficulty in finding the original floor coverings. It's simple</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">There is only one original floor covering and those are the rubber mats I've posted here (I think this may be Ben Kenion's car)</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Carpet was never available on an AN5/early 6</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">If you have the original mats - no deduction</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Anything else gets a deduction - whatever number of points is deemed appropriate - whether it's loop or cut pile, it's not original .. period. Hardura/vinyl/karvel/multi-colored deep shag carpet ... not original ... period. </div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I can't point specifically to when the AMCO kit became available and don't know if it was offered during production of the AN5/6. Someone would have to show by contemporaneous advertisement etc that it was a "period accessory". and even then, they would still need the rubber factory center mat or face some kind of deduction.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">If the supply or smoothcase transmissions dries up and become "unavailable". would we say it's ok to put in a ribcase because it's close or even a Datsun 5 speed because it was the only think available? If we are going to be concours dogmatists we should stay domatic and not make excuses for expedience. This coming from a Nasty Boy guy!</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Rick<div>"Madman in a death machine" Follow My Nasty Boy Build: <a shape="rect" href="http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo</a></div></div></div>
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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 07:04:07 PM EDT, Rick Fisk <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:refisk@chartermi.net" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">refisk@chartermi.net</a>> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">Hi Randy,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I bought my red '59 AN5 in January 1968 and this was the biggest piece of the rubber mats left at that time. Nine years in the California sun rotted the mats away to crumbling dust. My blue '60 AN5 vintage racer still has the complete door liners in place, but they have been painted and that may have helped preserve them. That car was originally Leaf Green and it seems to me that more of the green interiors have survived than the other colors.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Horler's book has some photos of the mats that kind sorta show the flat and ribbed areas.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Rick<div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yqtfd76126"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yqtfd22357"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yqtfd40514"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yqtfd63679"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><div id="m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yqtfd94188"><br clear="none">> On Sep 15, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Randy Hicks <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:randyhicks@me.com" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">randyhicks@me.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Hi Guys, can someone send me some photos of Original Rubber Floor Covering for the AN5?<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Thanks,<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Randy<br clear="none"></div></div>
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