From parrotthead01 at comcast.net Sun Nov 1 13:40:00 2009 From: parrotthead01 at comcast.net (Daniel Parrott) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 15:40:00 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Missing GAZ Part? Message-ID: <004b01ca5b33$7bb29000$7317b000$@net> Like my last post, I'm installing a set of GAZ front shocks to the Spit Six, and now have another dilemma. I think I'm missing the bottom plates (the plate that holds the bottom of the spring) from my new springs. The aluminum adjustment ring is not wide enough (or I think strong enough) to handle the load. I see that the SPAX brand of front shock has a wider plate that sit on top of the adjustment ring and securely centers and holds the bottom of the spring. Does anyone know where I can get a couple of the bottom plates for a GT-6? Dan Parrott Savannah, Ga 1980 Triumph Spitfire "PJ" 1972/1978 Spit Six Project car "Joseph" From parrotthead01 at comcast.net Sun Nov 1 14:47:09 2009 From: parrotthead01 at comcast.net (Daniel Parrott) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:47:09 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Missing GAZ Part? In-Reply-To: <004b01ca5b33$7bb29000$7317b000$@net> References: <004b01ca5b33$7bb29000$7317b000$@net> Message-ID: <005901ca5b3c$dcd2d350$967879f0$@net> Ok. Now I got the scoop. GAZ apparently mis-numbered a number of GAZ Adjustable Shocks. I have the wrong pair. I'll return them to Rimmer, testing their returns policy. Dan Parrott Savannah, Ga 1980 Triumph Spitfire "PJ" 1972/1978 Spit Six Project car "Joseph" -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Daniel Parrott Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 3:40 PM To: 'Spitfire list' Subject: [Spits] Missing GAZ Part? Like my last post, I'm installing a set of GAZ front shocks to the Spit Six, and now have another dilemma. I think I'm missing the bottom plates (the plate that holds the bottom of the spring) from my new springs. The aluminum adjustment ring is not wide enough (or I think strong enough) to handle the load. I see that the SPAX brand of front shock has a wider plate that sit on top of the adjustment ring and securely centers and holds the bottom of the spring. Does anyone know where I can get a couple of the bottom plates for a GT-6? Dan Parrott Savannah, Ga 1980 Triumph Spitfire "PJ" 1972/1978 Spit Six Project car "Joseph" Spitfires at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires http://www.team.net/archive From gastul at roadrunner.com Sun Nov 8 19:11:03 2009 From: gastul at roadrunner.com (Greg Stull) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 21:11:03 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring Message-ID: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> Hi, I finished putting in the disks in the rear leaf spring Saturday. Sure made an improvement. The rear of the car now sits higher and the rear wheels don't lean in as much. Went on a ride this afternoon with my Dad to give it a test with two people in the car. It came down a little but it wasn't anything like before. I even think it rides better. We took the Spit on some rough roads too. Went down to show a friend who owns a Spitfire and he could tell the difference as soon as I turned on his street. He couldn't believe the difference. Now, he wished he would done it to his old leaf spring instead of buying a new one. Now the next test is going to be time. Greg 1978 Spitfire 1500 Here's a link to some pictures I took while working on the leaf spring. http://picasaweb.google.com/gastul76/SpitfireSpring?feat=directlink From parrotthead01 at comcast.net Sun Nov 8 21:59:10 2009 From: parrotthead01 at comcast.net (Daniel Parrott) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 18:59:10 -1000 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> References: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> Message-ID: <000101ca60f9$65acff40$3106fdc0$@net> It looks like you went from negative camber to positive camber! Sure looks better! Daniel L Parrott 1980 Triumh Spitfire "PJ" 1972/1978 Triumph Spit-Six "Joesph" -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Stull Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:11 PM To: Spitfire Group Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring Hi, I finished putting in the disks in the rear leaf spring Saturday. Sure made an improvement. The rear of the car now sits higher and the rear wheels don't lean in as much. Went on a ride this afternoon with my Dad to give it a test with two people in the car. It came down a little but it wasn't anything like before. I even think it rides better. We took the Spit on some rough roads too. Went down to show a friend who owns a Spitfire and he could tell the difference as soon as I turned on his street. He couldn't believe the difference. Now, he wished he would done it to his old leaf spring instead of buying a new one. Now the next test is going to be time. Greg 1978 Spitfire 1500 Here's a link to some pictures I took while working on the leaf spring. http://picasaweb.google.com/gastul76/SpitfireSpring?feat=directlink Spitfires at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires http://www.team.net/archive From dennis_reese at verizon.net Sun Nov 8 22:11:11 2009 From: dennis_reese at verizon.net (Dennis Reese) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:11:11 -0800 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> References: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> Message-ID: I've been following this thread because my 1500 suffers from driver's side rear end sag and my next project is to fix it. I've been told to "replace the spring itself", "replace the shocks", "do both", "replace the front coils". I had planned to replace the spring, but after reading what Greg has done i wonder if that might be the solution. Any advice, thoughts from the experts? Thanks, Dennis On Nov 8, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Greg Stull wrote: > Hi, > > I finished putting in the disks in the rear leaf spring Saturday. > Sure made an > improvement. The rear of the car now sits higher and the rear > wheels don't > lean in as much. > > Went on a ride this afternoon with my Dad to give it a test with > two people in > the car. It came down a little but it wasn't anything like before. > I even > think it rides better. We took the Spit on some rough roads too. > > Went down to show a friend who owns a Spitfire and he could tell the > difference as soon as I turned on his street. He couldn't believe the > difference. Now, he wished he would done it to his old leaf spring > instead of > buying a new one. > > Now the next test is going to be time. > > Greg > 1978 Spitfire 1500 > > Here's a link to some pictures I took while working on the leaf > spring. > > http://picasaweb.google.com/gastul76/SpitfireSpring?feat=directlink > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as dennis_reese at verizon.net > > Spitfires at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires > > http://www.team.net/archive From mark at bradakis.com Sun Nov 8 23:08:06 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:08:06 -0700 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: References: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> Message-ID: <4AF7B1C6.5030009@bradakis.com> Dennis Reese wrote: > I've been following this thread because my 1500 suffers from driver's > side rear end sag and my next project is to fix it. I've been told to > "replace the spring itself", "replace the shocks", "do both", "replace > the front coils". Unless they are individually controlled air shocks or some such, rear shocks do *absolutely nothing* to the ride height. They will come to rest at a position dictated by the spring loads, front and rear. mjb. From spitlist at cox.net Sun Nov 8 23:12:45 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:12:45 -0700 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: <000101ca60f9$65acff40$3106fdc0$@net> References: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> <000101ca60f9$65acff40$3106fdc0$@net> Message-ID: After I got this message, I took a look at the photos and I have to say that I could not find anything wrong with the before photo. The Late MkIV and 1500 are supposed to have a fairly radical negative camber for the swing spring to work properly. The After photo is definitely not correct with the slightly positive camber stance. People often think that there is something wrong with the normal stance of the square tail Spits. I don't know what you did to achieve the positive camber but I think that you should think about reversing something in order to get it back to its "Normal" negative camber stance. One thing that people often do is tighten everything up while the car is up in the air and no load is placed on the spring. This squeezes the bushings so that when the car is lowered, it tends to want to stay in that position rather than relaxing to its static state. If you did that, I recommend loosening everything up and letting the car down on the suspension and bouncing up and down on the rear end to let the car settle. Then crawl under it and tighten the suspension components while it is under load. It helps to have a lift for this task. Cheers, Joe -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Daniel Parrott Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:59 PM To: 'Greg Stull'; 'Spitfire Group' Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear Spring It looks like you went from negative camber to positive camber! Sure looks better! Daniel L Parrott 1980 Triumh Spitfire "PJ" 1972/1978 Triumph Spit-Six "Joesph" -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Stull Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 4:11 PM To: Spitfire Group Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring Hi, I finished putting in the disks in the rear leaf spring Saturday. Sure made an improvement. The rear of the car now sits higher and the rear wheels don't lean in as much. Went on a ride this afternoon with my Dad to give it a test with two people in the car. It came down a little but it wasn't anything like before. I even think it rides better. We took the Spit on some rough roads too. Went down to show a friend who owns a Spitfire and he could tell the difference as soon as I turned on his street. He couldn't believe the difference. Now, he wished he would done it to his old leaf spring instead of buying a new one. Now the next test is going to be time. Greg 1978 Spitfire 1500 Here's a link to some pictures I took while working on the leaf spring. http://picasaweb.google.com/gastul76/SpitfireSpring?feat=directlink Spitfires at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as spitlist at cox.net Spitfires at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Sun Nov 8 23:20:45 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:20:45 -0700 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: References: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> Message-ID: <4E2C979AFB0B48508A0C08FE36D5055F@joepentiumnew> Dennis, The swing-spring that is installed on all square tail Spits is a pretty weak affair and is prone to the sag that you describe. Since there are fewer leaves than the early Spits had and only the main leaf is solidly attached to the diff, even a new spring will start to sag sooner or later. (more likely sooner if you drive it a lot). You can have it re-arched by a spring shop or reverse the direction so that the sagging side is on the passenger side of the car and your weight will balance it out if you are alone. Several people have installed air shocks on the rear that can be pumped up to increase the height of the car. I suppose that is an option. KYB shocks are gas charged and help take some of the stress off the spring by offsetting the load. But never use them on the back of an early Spit because the extra lift causes the rear camber to go Positive. Cheers, Joe -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Reese Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:11 PM To: Greg Stull Cc: Spitfire Group Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear Spring I've been following this thread because my 1500 suffers from driver's side rear end sag and my next project is to fix it. I've been told to "replace the spring itself", "replace the shocks", "do both", "replace the front coils". I had planned to replace the spring, but after reading what Greg has done i wonder if that might be the solution. Any advice, thoughts from the experts? Thanks, Dennis On Nov 8, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Greg Stull wrote: > Hi, > > I finished putting in the disks in the rear leaf spring Saturday. > Sure made an > improvement. The rear of the car now sits higher and the rear > wheels don't > lean in as much. > > Went on a ride this afternoon with my Dad to give it a test with > two people in > the car. It came down a little but it wasn't anything like before. > I even > think it rides better. We took the Spit on some rough roads too. > > Went down to show a friend who owns a Spitfire and he could tell the > difference as soon as I turned on his street. He couldn't believe the > difference. Now, he wished he would done it to his old leaf spring > instead of > buying a new one. > > Now the next test is going to be time. > > Greg > 1978 Spitfire 1500 > > Here's a link to some pictures I took while working on the leaf > spring. > > http://picasaweb.google.com/gastul76/SpitfireSpring?feat=directlink > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as dennis_reese at verizon.net > > Spitfires at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires > > http://www.team.net/archive You are subscribed as spitlist at cox.net Spitfires at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires http://www.team.net/archive From spitlist at cox.net Sun Nov 8 23:34:02 2009 From: spitlist at cox.net (Joe Curry) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:34:02 -0700 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> References: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> Message-ID: <322D5545371F428AA482004CFCB3C35B@joepentiumnew> Greg, After reviewing all your photos, I have come to the following conclusions: 1. You have used spacers that are too large in diameter and in thickness. This is causing the leaves to remain spaced apart and not allowing the car to settle to it's designed negative camber stance. 2. With the KYB shocks, the gas charging within them is adding to the effect because they are taking load off the spring. You might have the thing correct itself over a short period of time depending on what the spacers are made of. Because they are larger than the dimples in the spring leaves, they might slip out and let the leaves come back together as they should be. If they are made of a material that will abrade, they may wear down in short order so that the leaves are together as they should be. Please bear in mind that what unknowing people think is not correct is entirely normal for late Spits. Triumph increased the length of the rear axles by an inch on each side without changing the length of the spring. The effect was to radically change the camber to a negative condition and that had the desired effect of helping dame the tendency of the rear end to tuck the unloaded wheel in a hard turn. I hope this dissertation is useful. Joe -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Greg Stull Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:11 PM To: Spitfire Group Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring Hi, I finished putting in the disks in the rear leaf spring Saturday. Sure made an improvement. The rear of the car now sits higher and the rear wheels don't lean in as much. Went on a ride this afternoon with my Dad to give it a test with two people in the car. It came down a little but it wasn't anything like before. I even think it rides better. We took the Spit on some rough roads too. Went down to show a friend who owns a Spitfire and he could tell the difference as soon as I turned on his street. He couldn't believe the difference. Now, he wished he would done it to his old leaf spring instead of buying a new one. Now the next test is going to be time. Greg 1978 Spitfire 1500 Here's a link to some pictures I took while working on the leaf spring. http://picasaweb.google.com/gastul76/SpitfireSpring?feat=directlink You are subscribed as spitlist at cox.net Spitfires at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires http://www.team.net/archive From rbgosling at googlemail.com Mon Nov 9 02:28:39 2009 From: rbgosling at googlemail.com (Richard Gosling) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:28:39 +0000 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: References: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> Message-ID: <9f2527520911090128u2d5f1ee1s6086ef68fbfef42f@mail.gmail.com> If you are worried about the car leaning to the drivers side, your focus needs to be on the front suspension, not the rear (with a swing-spring car). The point of a swing-spring is that it swings - it therefore offers no resistance to roll. Well, one leaf is fixed, so it offers a very little resistance, but not enough to cause or to fix a lean to one side. Any roll issues should be addressed by the front springs and/or the anti-roll bar (unless you use adjustable air shocks at the rear, which always strikes me as a bodge that addresses the symptom not the cause, plus front springs are so much cheaper anyway!). People talk about "rear end drivers side sag". That talk scares me - do you really think the car is only sagging to the drivers side at the back??? Unless your chassis is twisted, it should be leaning by exactly the same amount at the front!!! Because of the styling of the car, it tends to be more visible at the rear, so I guess that's why this phrase arises. What worries me is that people think that, just because the sag is more visible at the rear, it must be the rear suspension that needs fixing... Richard 2009/11/9 Dennis Reese > I've been following this thread because my 1500 suffers from driver's side > rear end sag and my next project is to fix it. I've been told to "replace > the spring itself", "replace the shocks", "do both", "replace the front > coils". I had planned to replace the spring, but after reading what Greg has > done i wonder if that might be the solution. Any advice, thoughts from the > experts? > > Thanks, > Dennis From jimmuller at rcn.com Mon Nov 9 04:56:28 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:56:28 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: References: <000101ca60f9$65acff40$3106fdc0$@net> Message-ID: <4AF7BD1C.18153.2D08946@localhost> On 8 Nov 2009 at 23:12, Joe Curry wrote: > I could not find anything wrong with the before photo... > The After photo is definitely not correct with the > slightly positive camber stance. That was my reaction too. The before photo looks fine, and the after photo shows positive camber. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From jimmuller at rcn.com Mon Nov 9 05:00:54 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:00:54 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: <9f2527520911090128u2d5f1ee1s6086ef68fbfef42f@mail.gmail.com> References: Message-ID: <4AF7BE26.14000.2D49837@localhost> On 9 Nov 2009 at 9:28, Richard Gosling wrote: > Any roll issues should be addressed by the front springs and/or > the anti-roll bar Unless of course the front and rear aren't rigidly attached to each other... :-) It sometimes happens that the anti-roll bar mounts break off the frame. If that happens on the right side, it will offer no resistance against the car leaning to the left. Check them out, re- weld if necessary. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From superluke at execulink.com Mon Nov 9 09:53:05 2009 From: superluke at execulink.com (Luke Lewis) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:53:05 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring In-Reply-To: <9f2527520911090128u2d5f1ee1s6086ef68fbfef42f@mail.gmail.com> References: <90E0566638E74FB0BE9CDE419487080B@Stully> <9f2527520911090128u2d5f1ee1s6086ef68fbfef42f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF848F1.4090902@execulink.com> Just to add my 2 cents to this - I find that the attitude the car takes when parked depends directly on who was in it when it was driven. The geometry being what it is, when the car comes to a stop with weight on the driver's side only (As mine is 95% of the time, and I weigh 225) the only way for the left rear suspension to push the body back up to it's relaxed height would be for the tire to slide sideways! I tried this out on an alignment rack with sliding pads and the car came right up to level every time I got out. When one weighs over 1/10 of the overall vehicle weight there isn't much chance of stopping this effect, other than the individually-controlled air shocks some guys have installed. (Not replying to you directly, Richard, by the way! You're right about front springs too - mine made an enormous difference) > If you are worried about the car leaning to the drivers side, your focus > needs to be on the front suspension, not the rear (with a swing-spring > car). The point of a swing-spring is that it swings - it therefore offers > no resistance to roll. Well, one leaf is fixed, so it offers a very little > resistance, but not enough to cause or to fix a lean to one side. Any roll > issues should be addressed by the front springs and/or the anti-roll bar > (unless you use adjustable air shocks at the rear, which always strikes me > as a bodge that addresses the symptom not the cause, plus front springs are > so much cheaper anyway!). > > People talk about "rear end drivers side sag". That talk scares me - do you > really think the car is only sagging to the drivers side at the back??? > Unless your chassis is twisted, it should be leaning by exactly the same > amount at the front!!! Because of the styling of the car, it tends to be > more visible at the rear, so I guess that's why this phrase arises. What > worries me is that people think that, just because the sag is more visible > at the rear, it must be the rear suspension that needs fixing... > > Richard > > 2009/11/9 Dennis Reese > > >> I've been following this thread because my 1500 suffers from driver's side >> rear end sag and my next project is to fix it. I've been told to "replace >> the spring itself", "replace the shocks", "do both", "replace the front >> coils". I had planned to replace the spring, but after reading what Greg has >> done i wonder if that might be the solution. Any advice, thoughts from the >> experts? >> >> Thanks, >> Dennis >> > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as superluke at execulink.com > > Spitfires at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires > > http://www.team.net/archive From elliottr at rmi.net Mon Nov 9 10:25:10 2009 From: elliottr at rmi.net (Roger Elliott) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:25:10 -0600 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring Message-ID: <4AF85076.30704@rmi.net> Hi everyone, I am still in the middle of rebuilding my rear spring. When I put the clips on that hold 4 of the springs together - one side of the clip always slides out from under the little knob that they are supposed to be under. Any suggestions on how to get the clips to stay in place? I turned the clips around - the clip that slides out is determined by the side of the spring the clip is on - not the clip itself. Thanks, Roger Elliott From dennis_reese at verizon.net Mon Nov 9 18:22:50 2009 From: dennis_reese at verizon.net (Dennis Reese) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:22:50 -0800 Subject: [Spits] re Rear Spring/Driver's side sag Message-ID: Thanks to all of you who had comments about this issue. While I'm not exactly a novice at this stuff, a good share of the time I wonder what I'm doing so the input of this group is invaluable as far as I'm concerned. My plan at this point is to replace the rear spring and the front coils with the shorter, stiffer ones. Am I right? And, maybe take my wife for rides more often to balance the weight? Thanks again, Dennis Reese From jimmuller at rcn.com Mon Nov 9 22:23:04 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:23:04 -0500 Subject: [Spits] re Rear Spring/Driver's side sag In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4AF8B268.27252.68EB9C8@localhost> On 9 Nov 2009 at 17:22, Dennis Reese wrote: > My plan at this point is to replace the rear spring and > the front coils with the shorter, stiffer ones. Other than the body lean when you are alone in the driver's seat, is ther another reason you want different front springs? Stiffer spring may make it ride harsher. > And, maybe take my wife for rides more often to balance the weight? Highly recommended. It keeps a person in balance, so to speak. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From rbgosling at googlemail.com Tue Nov 10 02:01:21 2009 From: rbgosling at googlemail.com (Richard Gosling) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:01:21 +0000 Subject: [Spits] re Rear Spring/Driver's side sag In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9f2527520911100101m317f93c9p9808fe49b6175f90@mail.gmail.com> A stiffer suspension may reduce your wife's enthusiasm for coming for a ride... Richard 2009/11/10 Dennis Reese > Thanks to all of you who had comments about this issue. While I'm not > exactly a novice at this stuff, a good share of the time I wonder what I'm > doing so the input of this group is invaluable as far as I'm concerned. My > plan at this point is to replace the rear spring and the front coils with > the shorter, stiffer ones. Am I right? And, maybe take my wife for rides > more often to balance the weight? > > Thanks again, > Dennis Reese From fishplate at charter.net Tue Nov 10 04:53:38 2009 From: fishplate at charter.net (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:53:38 -0500 Subject: [Spits] re Rear Spring/Driver's side sag In-Reply-To: <4AF8B268.27252.68EB9C8@localhost> References: <4AF8B268.27252.68EB9C8@localhost> Message-ID: <3PtA1d0045K6Zm805PtCN8@charter.net> At 12:23 AM 11/10/2009, Jim Muller wrote: > > And, maybe take my wife for rides more often to balance the weight? > >Highly recommended. It keeps a person in balance, so to speak. Yes, but don't tell her that's the reason she's in the car. Jeff Scarbrough 75 TR6 x 1, 76 1500 x 2, 78 1500 x 1, 80 1500 x 0.5 http://www.fishplate.org/vehicles/ Corrosion Acres, Georgia #354 From gastul at roadrunner.com Tue Nov 10 18:32:25 2009 From: gastul at roadrunner.com (Greg Stull) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:32:25 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring reply Message-ID: <12C324B7A1A547C8811788A6262F16F8@Stully> That first photo was a little misleading. It was taken Saturday after I let the car down from the jacks. So it was probably sitting a little high. After I went for a ride Sunday afternoon it came down some like I said in my first e-mail. I will try and get new picture. It still does have a little negative camber. I checked my Haynes manual and it said the rear should be 0 to 2 degree negative camber. Is this correct and how do you measure that? Also I'm thinking about doing what Joe said about letting the car down with everything loose and then tighten the bolts. I don't have a lift which could make it a little difficult. The spacers have a nipple that fits in dimple on the leaf. Hopefully that will hold them in there just like the rubber ones. Does anybody know how thick the original rubber spacers were? Thanks all for your input Greg 1978 Spitfire 1500 From jimmuller at rcn.com Tue Nov 10 20:16:24 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:16:24 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring reply In-Reply-To: <12C324B7A1A547C8811788A6262F16F8@Stully> Message-ID: <4AF9E638.5771.288D97@localhost> On 10 Nov 2009 at 20:32, Greg Stull wrote: > It was taken Saturday after I let the car down from the jacks. > So it was probably sitting a little high. Oh, well that's okay then. > I checked my Haynes manual and it said the rear should be 0 to 2 > degree negative camber. Is this correct and how do you measure that? If Haynes said so, it probably is. There are several way you might measure it. With swing axles the sheel is always normal to the halfshaft, so you can just measure the halshaft. For example, if you have a flat, level garage floor you could measure the distance from floor to the bottom of a halfshaft at two points a known distance apart, then do the trig. For two points separated by 12", -2deg camber means the outer distance from halfshaft to floor would be .42" greater than the inner distance. [ 12 * sin(4deg) = .418 ] > Also I'm thinking about doing what Joe said about letting the > car down with everything loose and then tighten the bolts. And I'm wondering if Joe wasn't pulling your chain, stirring up your fluif or something. What bolts are we talking about? Both ends of the trailing arm, vertical strut to spring end, shock mounts. All those bolts are meant to pivot with suspension movement, except perhaps the shock mounts. Even if they weren't, surely the torque retained by the bushing isn't enough to hold the car higher off the ground. Having the tires bowed inward after you lower it to the car can hold the car upward, but not those bolts! > Does anybody know how thick the original rubber spacers were? I would imagine someone does. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From mark at bradakis.com Tue Nov 10 21:25:58 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:25:58 -0700 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring reply In-Reply-To: <4AF9E638.5771.288D97@localhost> References: <4AF9E638.5771.288D97@localhost> Message-ID: <4AFA3CD6.9050406@bradakis.com> > And I'm wondering if Joe wasn't pulling your chain, stirring up your > fluif or something. What bolts are we talking about? Both ends of > the trailing arm, vertical strut to spring end, shock mounts. All > those bolts are meant to pivot with suspension movement, except > perhaps the shock mounts. Actually the standard rubber bushings DO NOT pivot around the bolts. They are designed so that the inner steel sleeve is clamped to the brackets and suspension movement is accomplished by the rubber itself deforming. If you tighten the bolts when the car is in the air and the suspension is at full droop, then when the car is put on level ground the bushings are under stress. They are being twisted as the car just sits there. This distortion and constant stress causes early failure of the rubber as well as erratic movement of the suspension under normal use. If you tighten the bolts when the car is on the ground at rest, there is no twisting stress on the rubber while the car sits there. You're not making them stand on their head 24/7, so to speak. Driving around they only have to distort a little bit that way, a little bit the other way as the suspension flexes. They last longer and provide smoother, more controlled movement of the suspension. mjb. From jimmuller at rcn.com Wed Nov 11 07:07:52 2009 From: jimmuller at rcn.com (Jim Muller) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:07:52 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring reply In-Reply-To: <4AFA3CD6.9050406@bradakis.com> References: <4AF9E638.5771.288D97@localhost> Message-ID: <4AFA7EE8.22112.27D00B1@localhost> On 10 Nov 2009 at 21:25, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > If you tighten the bolts when the car is on the ground at rest, there is > no twisting stress on the rubber while the car sits there. You're not > making them stand on their head 24/7, so to speak This makes sense and I defer to mjb's and Joe's greater experience, but it is also true that the deflection isn't much in any case. Perhaps I shall go look at mine. Can't say I've ever had an issue with them. I'm trying to remember - seems to me they are much eassier to put together when the hub is jacked up anyway, which may be why I've never thought about it. Let me add that I certainly did not mean to imply that Joe was being flippant about suspension or safety concerns. Rather, I was thinking two things: 1. Tuning a car for optimum autocross or race performance is a more demanding task than just tuning it for the street, and Joe would surely know about performance tuning. 2. The effect of loaded bushings on safety (provided they don't break, of course) would be far less than the effect of having camber that is too positive, and the camber is influenced far more by the spring than by loaded bushings. If (or I should say when) I drive my Spitfire spiritedly I'd rather have the camber be slightly negative regardless of what it looks like. I'll go back to sleep now. -- Jim Muller jimmuller at rcn.com '80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+ From growe58 at hotmail.com Wed Nov 11 07:54:06 2009 From: growe58 at hotmail.com (Greg Rowe) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:54:06 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring reply In-Reply-To: <4AFA3CD6.9050406@bradakis.com> References: <4AF9E638.5771.288D97@localhost> Message-ID: Most of the repair manuals recommend tightening on the ground as well. Since I can't get to the bolts while the car is on the ground, I usually put a trolley jack under the vertical link and jack up until the car is just about to come off the jack stands under the frame and then tighten the bolts. I figure this simulates the weight of the car on the suspension bushes. Greg Rowe > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:25:58 -0700 > From: mark at bradakis.com > To: spitfires at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear Spring reply > > > And I'm wondering if Joe wasn't pulling your chain, stirring up your > > fluif or something. What bolts are we talking about? Both ends of > > the trailing arm, vertical strut to spring end, shock mounts. All > > those bolts are meant to pivot with suspension movement, except > > perhaps the shock mounts. > > Actually the standard rubber bushings DO NOT pivot around the bolts. > They are designed so that the inner steel sleeve is clamped to the brackets > and suspension movement is accomplished by the rubber itself deforming. > > If you tighten the bolts when the car is in the air and the suspension is at > full droop, then when the car is put on level ground the bushings are under > stress. They are being twisted as the car just sits there. This distortion > and constant stress causes early failure of the rubber as well as erratic > movement of the suspension under normal use. > > If you tighten the bolts when the car is on the ground at rest, there is > no twisting stress on the rubber while the car sits there. You're not > making them stand on their head 24/7, so to speak. Driving around > they only have to distort a little bit that way, a little bit the other > way as the suspension flexes. They last longer and provide smoother, > more controlled movement of the suspension. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Find the right PC with Windows 7 and Windows Live. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/pc-scout/laptop-set-criteria.aspx?cbid=wl&fi lt=200,2400,10,19,1,3,1,7,50,650,2,12,0,1000&cat=1,2,3,4,5,6&brands=5,6,7,8,9 ,10,11,12,13,14,15,16&addf=4,5,9&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN _evergreen2:112009 From gastul at roadrunner.com Wed Nov 11 13:16:25 2009 From: gastul at roadrunner.com (Greg Stull) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:16:25 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Rear Spring reply References: <4AF9E638.5771.288D97@localhost> Message-ID: <01F5F86F2E1A4638A1A8201784F03F9B@Stully> Greg Nick had the same idea. I think I'll give that a try. Thanks Greg 1978 Spitfire 1500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Rowe" To: "Spitfires" Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear Spring reply > Most of the repair manuals recommend tightening on the ground > as well. Since I can't get to the bolts while the car is on the > ground, I usually put a trolley jack under the vertical link and jack > up until the car is just about to come off the jack stands > under the frame and then tighten the bolts. I figure this > simulates the weight of the car on the suspension bushes. > > Greg Rowe > >> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:25:58 -0700 >> From: mark at bradakis.com >> To: spitfires at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear Spring reply >> >> > And I'm wondering if Joe wasn't pulling your chain, stirring up your >> > fluif or something. What bolts are we talking about? Both ends of >> > the trailing arm, vertical strut to spring end, shock mounts. All >> > those bolts are meant to pivot with suspension movement, except >> > perhaps the shock mounts. >> >> Actually the standard rubber bushings DO NOT pivot around the bolts. >> They are designed so that the inner steel sleeve is clamped to the >> brackets >> and suspension movement is accomplished by the rubber itself deforming. >> >> If you tighten the bolts when the car is in the air and the suspension is > at >> full droop, then when the car is put on level ground the bushings are >> under >> stress. They are being twisted as the car just sits there. This > distortion >> and constant stress causes early failure of the rubber as well as erratic >> movement of the suspension under normal use. >> >> If you tighten the bolts when the car is on the ground at rest, there is >> no twisting stress on the rubber while the car sits there. You're not >> making them stand on their head 24/7, so to speak. Driving around >> they only have to distort a little bit that way, a little bit the other >> way as the suspension flexes. They last longer and provide smoother, >> more controlled movement of the suspension. >> >> mjb. >> _______________________________________________ > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find the right PC with Windows 7 and Windows Live. > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/pc-scout/laptop-set-criteria.aspx?cbid=wl&fi > lt=200,2400,10,19,1,3,1,7,50,650,2,12,0,1000&cat=1,2,3,4,5,6&brands=5,6,7,8,9 > ,10,11,12,13,14,15,16&addf=4,5,9&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN > _evergreen2:112009 > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as gastul at roadrunner.com > > Spitfires at autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires > > http://www.team.net/archive From parrotthead01 at comcast.net Fri Nov 13 14:49:46 2009 From: parrotthead01 at comcast.net (Daniel Parrott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:49:46 -0500 Subject: [Spits] Missing GAZ Part? Found! In-Reply-To: <004b01ca5b33$7bb29000$7317b000$@net> References: <004b01ca5b33$7bb29000$7317b000$@net> Message-ID: <006401ca64ab$37ae5e80$a70b1b80$@net> Well, after my last post, I contacted Chris at British Parts Northwest. I had heard that they received a batch of mis-numbered GAZ shocks last spring that were supposed to be for the Spitfire/GT6, but had a way-too-small bottom plate. BPN got their shocks from Rimmer for resale, and perhaps my shocks were in the same batch of mis-numbered shocks. I dropped a couple of emails to Rimmer Brothers for an inquiry, but after almost two weeks, I had heard nothing back. I was about to make an overseas call, when lo-and behold, I got a package today that had four GAZ rings, two with just the right size to properly hold the bottom of the spring. No response e-mail, no apologies, just the rings. Now I have a questions, where do the other, smaller, rings go? Below to serve as a locking ring? TIA Dan Parrott Savannah, Ga 1980 Triumph Spitfire "PJ" 1972/1978 Spit Six Project car "Joseph" -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Daniel Parrott Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 3:40 PM To: 'Spitfire list' Subject: [Spits] Missing GAZ Part? Like my last post, I'm installing a set of GAZ front shocks to the Spit Six, and now have another dilemma. I think I'm missing the bottom plates (the plate that holds the bottom of the spring) from my new springs. The aluminum adjustment ring is not wide enough (or I think strong enough) to handle the load. I see that the SPAX brand of front shock has a wider plate that sit on top of the adjustment ring and securely centers and holds the bottom of the spring. Does anyone know where I can get a couple of the bottom plates for a GT-6? Dan Parrott Savannah, Ga 1980 Triumph Spitfire "PJ" 1972/1978 Spit Six Project car "Joseph" Spitfires at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires http://www.team.net/archive From mark at bradakis.com Sat Nov 14 12:23:32 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:23:32 -0700 Subject: [Spits] 13 x 5 Libre style wheels for Lotus, Spitfire, TR7 Message-ID: <4AFF03B4.4080806@bradakis.com> A fellow on the vintage race list is offering some nice wheels, ebay item number is 330377011919. mjb. From StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org Fri Nov 20 20:13:55 2009 From: StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org (Glenn A. Merrell - TSN) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:13:55 -0700 Subject: [Spits] Triumph Stag frame dimensions Message-ID: <4B075AF3.6080703@triumphstagclub.org> All, Sorry to deluge all the Triumph lists. A local repair shoppe has asked me for frame dimensions to put a Stag they have back to OE points. Of course I directed them to the Stag ROM section 76, or to an unbent Stag or two that I have. Problem is, the points in the Repair Operations Manual are all referenced to the Six (6) Churchill special frame jig tooling and points are all measured off of those jigs precision bolt holes or precision bracket edges for positioning. I recall when I was a kid at the dealership in Pennsylvania that there were two US equipment companies - Great Bear, I think was one I remember that had all the frame points translated to frame checking straightening equipment buried into concrete from standard datum points that could be referenced from a set of squared up datum points on a flat floor / inlaid frame rails. Has anyone located any of these type of stand alone specifications, the full set of Churchill tooling, or other datum points and measurements that can be used to stretch a Stag back into proper "square"? If so, please contact me. Might also be handy to archive this information for all the other Triumph model lines, but I recall that TR7's and TR8's are programmed into some of the popular frame straightening equipment. I know RATCO does TR4/5/250/6 frames and has those jigs, but Stags are a bit more rare in North America. Thanks! -- Glenn Merrell TSN Admin http://www.triumphstag.net mailto:StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org From elliottr at rmi.net Sun Nov 29 18:41:45 2009 From: elliottr at rmi.net (Roger Elliott) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:41:45 -0600 Subject: [Spits] Hard top hoist Message-ID: <4B1322D9.3000000@rmi.net> Hi Everyone, Is anyone using a hoist to lift and store their Spitfire hard top? If so, what hoist are you using? Thanks, Roger Elliott From doug at dougbraun.com Sun Nov 29 20:58:37 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:58:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Spits] Hard top hoist In-Reply-To: <4B1322D9.3000000@rmi.net> Message-ID: <814416.77198.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've never seen one for sale, so I built my own. In my opinion, it is the ONLY way to securely store a hardtop. You can see my first-generation host here: http://www.dougbraun.com/spitfire.html I changed to my second-generation design when I moved to a new house. It uses a single clamp-on luggage rack rail to hold the hardtop, with a rope and pulley arrangement recycled from my older setup. Doug --- On Sun, 11/29/09, Roger Elliott wrote: > From: Roger Elliott > Subject: [Spits] Hard top hoist > To: spitfires at autox.team.net > Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 8:41 PM > Hi Everyone, > > Is anyone using a hoist to lift and store their Spitfire > hard top? From nmoseley at dccnet.com Mon Nov 30 11:17:11 2009 From: nmoseley at dccnet.com (Nick Moseley) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:17:11 -0800 Subject: [Spits] Hard top hoist In-Reply-To: <4B1322D9.3000000@rmi.net> References: <4B1322D9.3000000@rmi.net> Message-ID: <0B3F2E694FCD4089BA660EF558D1ECAD@yourb27fb1c401> I am using two of these, to keep two bonnets up and out of the way. They've been modified by using aircraft cable to replacing the flimsy rope with which they came, and some wire was used to secure the bonnets to the grips at each end. Even with replacing the rope with cable, it seemed good value for the pulley hardware and ends, as they create a mechanical advantage so you don't end up doing a Wile E Coyote trick being lifted off the ground, as the bonnet comes crashing down. Nick Moseley, NASS #278: 63-81 Spits, GT 6, Metro Vancouver B.C. -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Roger Elliott Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 5:42 PM To: spitfires at autox.team.net Subject: [Spits] Hard top hoist Hi Everyone, Is anyone using a hoist to lift and store their Spitfire hard top? If so, what hoist are you using? Thanks, Roger Elliott