<div dir="ltr">This sounds like a bad/intermittent ground.  We had very similar issues on a friends car and eventually trace it to the engine to frame ground strap.  The strap was loose and when it rattled just right there was a large voltage drop and stuff stopped working.  But when we checked voltage, everything seemed fine.  How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the motor?<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:07 PM john niolon <<a href="mailto:jniolon@att.net">jniolon@att.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">



<div class="gmail-m_2315766880582515852OECFntDef">
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Took the truck (53 ford f-100) out for a drive yesterday…first time since the Grand Nationals (I’ve been busy) Ran great for about 30 minutes with a couple of stops during the ride… each time it started right and showed no problems. Electric fan and a/c running the whole time As I pulled out of one business and headed home the truck stumbled and died..almost like it was out of gas… ( had over a half a tank) I pulled into a business and tried to start it and all I got was a ‘click”. Dash Volt meter read about 11 volts with switch on and dropped to zero when hitting the starter. Waited about 10 minutes and it started right up… got it home, shut it off and same thing “click”.</span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Battery has been on a battery tender full time since May and showed 13.7 volts on VOM connected to the battery before the ride.</span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Battery is 2 years old Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA …  </span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Davis DUI ignition (which could have quit when battery voltage got low)</span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">All cables are new with 1/0 welding cable for starting circuit and battery ground to frame</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">engine to frame, frame to cab and frame to bed are all #4 wire to bare metal connection points with dialectic grease.</span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br style="box-sizing:border-box;font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">At first glance...when running,  the volt meter on dash shows over 13 volts so I think alternator is good </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">did a load test with a H.F. (100 amp) load tester showed battery dropping to 10 volts during 10 second load... recovered to 12. </span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span></span><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Put truck up on stands and dropped battery (under cab)  checked all cables and connections from battery to starter including solenoid and ground connections.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">all tight, no corrosion on terminals and  </span><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">cells full.  this truck finished last year and everything is new.  Starter solenoid is a Cole-Hersee 200 amp continuous draw solenoid.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Starter is new last year and 6-7 inches away and below headers so heat soak isn't causing the problem</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Set it back down and charged it for 30 minutes at 10 amps... battery showed 12.9 volts..  started ok and put meter on alternator</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">terminals... alternator putting out 14.5 - 14.8 volts...  varies a little with engine speed.... so alternator is good I think.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span> </span>I did a load test again.,.. idle voltage reading 12.9 volts on two different fluke meters... and during the load test it dropped to 12.3 then recovered to 12.7...so I'm assuming the battery is good, it was just low before the first load test.</span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span></span> </div></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">here's an odd thing.. I have a 12 volt terminal on the right frame rail that powers the elec radiator fan, tilt hood motors and trinary switch</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">with the a/c on, headlights on and elec radiator fan running (as much load as I can put on it)... the alternator o/p at 14.5 volts, the voltage at the terminal on rail reads 11.5 volts.  The terminal is 4' from battery and fed with #4 stranded wire.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">that's about all the detail I can give you... any ideas why it stalled and quit..???   and why the terminal point only reads 11.5 versus the 14.5 at the alternator.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">I'm at the wall</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"></span> </div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">thanks</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,geneva,lucida,"lucida grande",arial,helvetica,sans-serif;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-transform:none;float:none;font-weight:400;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-style:normal;display:inline;letter-spacing:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-indent:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">john</span></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">=================================<br>= Never offend people with style when you   =<br>= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =<br>=================================</div>