From dhlocker at protonmail.com Fri Dec 1 05:21:43 2023 From: dhlocker at protonmail.com (Donald H Locker) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2023 12:21:43 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Jump starting a late model car In-Reply-To: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> References: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is nothing (that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by providing or accepting a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to + and - to -). The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the cables and clamps have significant resistance. That is the big reason that the "dead" battery needs to be connected for a period of time before cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer in winter); not very long, but it really doesn't take much to bring a dead battery up to sufficient charge.) The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems are amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them. Protection is built in to every component against: over-voltage; reverse connection; shorts to ground; shorts to power. The battery itself is a very simple electrochemical device that _can_ be damaged, but it's difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -20F if significantly discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the most common problem. Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly (+ to + and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either of the vehicles' systems. Donald. On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair wrote: > I come to the well of knowledge looking for information. > > My sister just emailed me about her having a friend jump start her late model Lexis from his F150 pickup. He got her started and then drove his truck to someplace and parked it. When he tried to start it, it wouldn't start. He had it towed to a dealership and they said his battery was fried. > > In my sister's email she said that she has found out that you shouldn't jump start a car made from 2000 on. > > My question is why and how do you start a car with a dead battery? > > I realize that the jumping car should be running, so that gives the possiblity of too much current being drawn from the jumping car as it's got a good battery and an alternator capable of putting out well over 100A! So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a short circuit. Bad - lots of current! > > So disconnecting the dead battery and putting it on a battery charger to give it a more controlled charge should be OK. > But that's not easy to do in a parking lot. > > What about these jump boxes, especially the little ones like > > https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true > > But that is supposedly capable of 1500A!!! > > I did a google search on the subject and found an article talking about all the problems that you can have doing this. But the article really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping or the jumped car or both. > > So what is the collective knowledge about this? What am I missing? > > JohnT, > > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net > > Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 > > 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget > 65 & 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic 65 Volvo P1800 > > Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ > Bricklin: [http://www.bricklin.org](http://www.bricklin.org/) > > If you can read this - Thank a teacher! > If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! > > From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: > e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." > In God We Trust > Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for > oneself; freedom from control or restriction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhlocker at protonmail.com Fri Dec 1 05:22:47 2023 From: dhlocker at protonmail.com (Donald H Locker) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2023 12:22:47 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Jump starting a late model car In-Reply-To: References: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: And if someone can point me to a reputable site with information to the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind. Thank you all, Donald. On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker wrote: > I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is nothing (that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by providing or accepting a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to + and - to -). > > The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the cables and clamps have significant resistance. That is the big reason that the "dead" battery needs to be connected for a period of time before cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer in winter); not very long, but it really doesn't take much to bring a dead battery up to sufficient charge.) > > The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems are amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them. Protection is built in to every component against: over-voltage; reverse connection; shorts to ground; shorts to power. The battery itself is a very simple electrochemical device that _can_ be damaged, but it's difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -20F if significantly discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the most common problem. > > Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly (+ to + and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either of the vehicles' systems. > > Donald. > > On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair wrote: > >> I come to the well of knowledge looking for information. >> >> My sister just emailed me about her having a friend jump start her late model Lexis from his F150 pickup. He got her started and then drove his truck to someplace and parked it. When he tried to start it, it wouldn't start. He had it towed to a dealership and they said his battery was fried. >> >> In my sister's email she said that she has found out that you shouldn't jump start a car made from 2000 on. >> >> My question is why and how do you start a car with a dead battery? >> >> I realize that the jumping car should be running, so that gives the possiblity of too much current being drawn from the jumping car as it's got a good battery and an alternator capable of putting out well over 100A! So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a short circuit. Bad - lots of current! >> >> So disconnecting the dead battery and putting it on a battery charger to give it a more controlled charge should be OK. >> But that's not easy to do in a parking lot. >> >> What about these jump boxes, especially the little ones like >> >> https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true >> >> But that is supposedly capable of 1500A!!! >> >> I did a google search on the subject and found an article talking about all the problems that you can have doing this. But the article really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping or the jumped car or both. >> >> So what is the collective knowledge about this? What am I missing? >> >> JohnT, >> >> John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net >> >> Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 >> >> 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget >> 65 & 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic 65 Volvo P1800 >> >> Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ >> Bricklin: [http://www.bricklin.org](http://www.bricklin.org/) >> >> If you can read this - Thank a teacher! >> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >> >> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: >> e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." >> In God We Trust >> Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for >> oneself; freedom from control or restriction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jblair1948 at cox.net Fri Dec 1 07:24:47 2023 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (JohnT Blair) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 09:24:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Jump starting a late model car In-Reply-To: References: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: <222574708.242648.1701440687271@myemail.cox.net> On 12/01/2023 7:21 AM EST you wrote: >I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is >nothing (that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be >"fried" by providing or accepting a jump, provide it's done >properly (+ to + and - to -). Donald, Thanks for the reply. I agree with you, but I haven't stayed up with the "state of the art" when it comes to the newer cars. My newest car is a '12 Scion xB. Everything gets older from there. I'd never heard of electric parking brakes until my nephew had problems with his. So I had to come up to speed there. So that's why I posted the questions. >The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the >cables and clamps have significant resistance. That is the >big reason that the "dead" battery needs to be connected >for a period of time before cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec >(longer in winter); not very long, but it really doesn't take >much to bring a dead battery up to sufficient charge.) Exactly!!! >The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical >systems are amazing; I've helped design and test quite a >few of them. Again, exactly what I thought. How hard is it to put a fuse, a MOV, and or a diode in each circuit to protect it from surges and incorrect polarity. >Protection is built in to every component against: over- >voltage; reverse connection; shorts to ground; shorts to >power. The battery itself is a very simple electrochemical >device that _can_ be damaged, but it's difficult: freezing >(-40F if charged; -20F if significantly discharged); reverse >charging; mechanical damage is the most common >problem. Good info. >Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect >properly (+ to + and - to -), there is almost no way to >damage either of the vehicles' systems. My thoughts exactly. Otherwise you'd have to remove a dead battery to charge it. Thanks for the info. That reinforces my thoughts exactly. I just wanted some addition support. JohnT, John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 & 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic 65 Volvo P1800 Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org/ If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Fri Dec 1 07:32:47 2023 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 06:32:47 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Jump starting a late model car In-Reply-To: References: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: I got into a discussion on a Mustang forum when I posted I wanted to swap batteries without losing all my radio and other presets (I would have connected another battery in parallel). People on the forum brought up Fords's 'BMS;' which was new turf to this old dog. There are, apparently, some possible issues with this system (the Mustang has them too). In the end, I pulled an Elon--'F-it'--and just swapped the batteries like I always have and only lost the settings for my custom drive mode. I think it possible that some who don't understand the BMS may have started this rumor; I suspect you can damage these somehow but a simple jump shouldn't do it as you're not passing any current through it (unless you connect to a hot lead somewhere). The only modification to this time-proven technique--jumping a car--is you're now admonished to hook ground to the chassis somewhere instead of the common battery terminal, which I've always assumed was to avoid a spark which could ignite any lingering H2 gas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A bs On 12/1/2023 4:22 AM, Donald H Locker wrote: > > And if someone can point me to a reputable site with information to > the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind. > > Thank you all, > Donald. > > On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker wrote: >> >> I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is nothing (that >> I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by providing >> or accepting a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to + and - to -). >> >> The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the cables and >> clamps have significant resistance. That is the big reason that the >> "dead" battery needs to be connected for a period of time before >> cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer in winter); not very long, >> but it really doesn't take much to bring a dead battery up to >> sufficient charge.) >> >> The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems are >> amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them. Protection >> is built in to every component against: over-voltage; reverse >> connection; shorts to ground; shorts to power. The battery itself is >> a very simple electrochemical device that _can_ be damaged, but it's >> difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -20F if significantly >> discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the most common >> problem. >> >> Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly (+ to + >> and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either of the vehicles' >> systems. >> >> Donald. >> >> On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair wrote: >>> I come to the well of knowledge looking for information. >>> My sister just emailed me about her having a friend jump start her >>> late model Lexis from his F150 pickup.? He got her started and then >>> drove his truck to someplace and parked it.? When he tried to start >>> it, it wouldn't start.? He had it towed to a dealership and they >>> said his battery was fried. >>> In my sister's email she said that she has found out that you >>> shouldn't jump start a car made from 2000 on. >>> My question is why and how do you start a car with a dead battery? >>> I realize that the jumping car should be running, so that gives the >>> possiblity of too much current being drawn from the jumping car as >>> it's got a good battery and an alternator capable of putting out >>> well over 100A!? So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a short >>> circuit.? Bad - lots of current! >>> So disconnecting the dead battery and putting it on a battery >>> charger to give it a more controlled charge should be OK. >>> But that's not easy to do in a parking lot. >>> What about these jump boxes, especially the little ones like >>> >>> https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true >>> >>> But that is supposedly capable of 1500A!!! >>> >>> I did a google search on the subject and found an article talking >>> about all the problems that you can have doing this.? But the >>> article really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping or >>> the jumped car or both. >>> >>> So what is the collective knowledge about this?? What am I missing? >>> >>> JohnT, >>> >>> >>> John T. Blair? WA4OHZ???? email: jblair1948 at cox.net >>> >>> Va. Beach, Va Phone:? (757) 495-8229 >>> 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) ? 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)?? 48 >>> TR1800??? 48 #4 Midget >>> 65 & 77 Spitfire?? 71 Saab Sonett III?? 65 Rambler Classic?? 65 >>> Volvo P1800 >>> Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ >>> Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org >>> >>> If you can read this???????????? - Thank a teacher! >>> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >>> >>> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: >>> ???? e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." >>> ???? In God We Trust >>> ???? Liberty - the? power? of? choosing,? thinking,? and? acting for >>> oneself; freedom? from? control? or? restriction >>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gene at garrison-grafixx.com Fri Dec 1 11:17:35 2023 From: gene at garrison-grafixx.com (Gene Garrison) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 10:17:35 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Jump starting a late model car In-Reply-To: References: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: The BMS was my first thought.? In connecting to the battery posts to start the car, you would be bypassing the BMS, so it wouldn't "know" about the charge and would think the battery was still dead.? But this would have affected the Lexus (which had the dead battery), not the F150. Other than that, I agree.? I can't think of any reason it would cause damage.? Just don't put the two batteries in series. - GeneG On 12/1/23 06:32, Bob Spidell wrote: > I got into a discussion on a Mustang forum when I posted I wanted to > swap batteries without losing all my radio and other presets (I would > have connected another battery in parallel). People on the forum > brought up Fords's 'BMS;' which was new turf to this old dog. There > are, apparently, some possible issues with this system (the Mustang > has them too). In the end, I pulled an Elon--'F-it'--and just swapped > the batteries like I always have and only lost the settings for my > custom drive mode. I think it possible that some who don't understand > the BMS may have started this rumor; I suspect you can damage these > somehow but a simple jump shouldn't do it as you're not passing any > current through it (unless you connect to a hot lead somewhere). The > only modification to this time-proven technique--jumping a car--is > you're now admonished to hook ground to the chassis somewhere instead > of the common battery terminal, which I've always assumed was to avoid > a spark which could ignite any lingering H2 gas. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A > > bs > > On 12/1/2023 4:22 AM, Donald H Locker wrote: >> >> And if someone can point me to a reputable site with information to >> the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind. >> >> Thank you all, >> Donald. >> >> On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker wrote: >>> >>> I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is nothing >>> (that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by >>> providing or accepting a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to + >>> and - to -). >>> >>> The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the cables and >>> clamps have significant resistance. That is the big reason that the >>> "dead" battery needs to be connected for a period of time before >>> cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer in winter); not very long, >>> but it really doesn't take much to bring a dead battery up to >>> sufficient charge.) >>> >>> The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems are >>> amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them. Protection >>> is built in to every component against: over-voltage; reverse >>> connection; shorts to ground; shorts to power. The battery itself is >>> a very simple electrochemical device that _can_ be damaged, but it's >>> difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -20F if significantly >>> discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the most common >>> problem. >>> >>> Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly (+ to >>> + and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either of the >>> vehicles' systems. >>> >>> Donald. >>> >>> On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair wrote: >>>> I come to the well of knowledge looking for information. >>>> My sister just emailed me about her having a friend jump start her >>>> late model Lexis from his F150 pickup.? He got her started and then >>>> drove his truck to someplace and parked it.? When he tried to start >>>> it, it wouldn't start.? He had it towed to a dealership and they >>>> said his battery was fried. >>>> In my sister's email she said that she has found out that you >>>> shouldn't jump start a car made from 2000 on. >>>> My question is why and how do you start a car with a dead battery? >>>> I realize that the jumping car should be running, so that gives the >>>> possiblity of too much current being drawn from the jumping car as >>>> it's got a good battery and an alternator capable of putting out >>>> well over 100A!? So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a >>>> short circuit.? Bad - lots of current! >>>> So disconnecting the dead battery and putting it on a battery >>>> charger to give it a more controlled charge should be OK. >>>> But that's not easy to do in a parking lot. >>>> What about these jump boxes, especially the little ones like >>>> >>>> https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true >>>> >>>> But that is supposedly capable of 1500A!!! >>>> >>>> I did a google search on the subject and found an article talking >>>> about all the problems that you can have doing this.? But the >>>> article really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping or >>>> the jumped car or both. >>>> >>>> So what is the collective knowledge about this?? What am I missing? >>>> >>>> JohnT, >>>> >>>> >>>> John T. Blair? WA4OHZ???? email: jblair1948 at cox.net >>>> >>>> Va. Beach, Va ?? Phone:? (757) 495-8229 >>>> 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) ? ? 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)?? 48 >>>> TR1800??? 48 #4 Midget >>>> 65 & 77 Spitfire?? 71 Saab Sonett III?? 65 Rambler Classic?? 65 >>>> Volvo P1800 >>>> Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/ >>>> Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org >>>> >>>> If you can read this???????????? - Thank a teacher! >>>> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >>>> >>>> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: >>>> ???? e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." >>>> ???? In God We Trust >>>> ???? Liberty - the? power? of? choosing,? thinking,? and? acting for >>>> oneself; freedom? from? control? or? restriction >>>> >>>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gene at garrison-grafixx.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at dougbraun.com Sat Dec 2 09:14:05 2023 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2023 11:14:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Jump starting a late model car In-Reply-To: References: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: An interesting topic! I didn't realize how sophisticated these BMSes are. I found a video that explains the Ford version very well: https://youtu.be/I_KmO-KaR4A Doug On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 1:35?PM Gene Garrison wrote: > The BMS was my first thought. In connecting to the battery posts to start > the car, you would be bypassing the BMS, so it wouldn't "know" about the > charge and would think the battery was still dead. But this would have > affected the Lexus (which had the dead battery), not the F150. > > Other than that, I agree. I can't think of any reason it would cause > damage. Just don't put the two batteries in series. > > - GeneG > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gene at garrison-grafixx.com Sat Dec 2 12:44:25 2023 From: gene at garrison-grafixx.com (Gene Garrison) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2023 11:44:25 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Jump starting a late model car In-Reply-To: References: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I watched this video a few months back when I was replacing the timing chain and phasers on my 2012 F150.? Saw this thing hanging off the battery and wondered what it was.? Apparently they're really concerned that you have adequate battery juice to power things like electrically assisted power steering, auto stop/start, etc.? And will start turning off accessories if necessary. I can't imagine that they would prevent the vehicle from restarting just because the computer thinks the battery is dead, but who knows. - GeneG On 12/2/23 08:14, Doug Braun wrote: > > An interesting topic!? I didn't realize how sophisticated these BMSes > are.? I found a video that explains the Ford version very well: > https://youtu.be/I_KmO-KaR4A > > Doug > > > On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 1:35?PM Gene Garrison > wrote: > > The BMS was my first thought.? In connecting to the battery posts > to start the car, you would be bypassing the BMS, so it wouldn't > "know" about the charge and would think the battery was still > dead.? But this would have affected the Lexus (which had the dead > battery), not the F150. > > Other than that, I agree.? I can't think of any reason it would > cause damage.? Just don't put the two batteries in series. > > - GeneG > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Tue Dec 5 06:51:04 2023 From: eric at megageek.com (Moose) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2023 08:51:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns Message-ID: Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? (like a person on the inside?) I have a breaker bar that broke. I went to their website and filled out their form to request a 'repair kit' a while ago. I only received an email response that was the text I filled out in the online form. No additional information, no way to follow up or if they even would be sending the repair kit. Anyone have any experience with this? Thanks. Moose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave1massey at cs.com Tue Dec 5 11:47:04 2023 From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2023 18:47:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Jump starting a late model car In-Reply-To: References: <510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net> Message-ID: <176535451.497395.1701802024012@mail.yahoo.com> I believe you are right.? There are design standards regarding the voltage spikes likely to be encountered in a vehicle electrical system and they are quite significant.? All the components (ECU's, electronic controls, etc) must meet these standards.? The starter is typically the worst-case source of voltage spikes especially on disengagement. Dave On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 08:02:16 AM CST, Donald H Locker wrote: And if someone can point me to a reputable site with information to the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind. Thank you all, Donald. On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker wrote: I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is nothing (that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by providing or accepting a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to + and - to -). The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the cables and clamps have significant resistance. That is the big reason that the "dead" battery needs to be connected for a period of time before cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer in winter); not very long, but it really doesn't take much to bring a dead battery up to sufficient charge.) The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems are amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them. Protection is built in to every component against: over-voltage; reverse connection; shorts to ground; shorts to power. The battery itself is a very simple electrochemical device that _can_ be damaged, but it's difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -20F if significantly discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the most common problem. Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly (+ to + and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either of the vehicles' systems. Donald. On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair wrote: I come to the well of knowledge looking for information. ? My sister just emailed me about her having a friend jump start her late model Lexis from his F150 pickup.? He got her started and then drove his truck to someplace and parked it.? When he tried to start it, it wouldn't start.? He had it towed to a dealership and they said his battery was fried. ? In my sister's email she said that she has found out that you shouldn't jump start a car made from 2000 on. ? My question is why and how do you start a car with a dead battery? ? I realize that the jumping car should be running, so that gives the possiblity of too much current being drawn from the jumping car as it's got a good battery and an alternator capable of putting out well over 100A!? So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a short circuit.? Bad - lots of current! ? So disconnecting the dead battery and putting it on a battery charger to give it a more controlled charge should be OK. But that's not easy to do in a parking lot. ? What about these jump boxes, especially the little ones like https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true But that is supposedly capable of 1500A!!!? I did a google search on the subject and found an article talking about all the problems that you can have doing this.? But the article really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping or the jumped car or both. So what is the collective knowledge about this?? What am I missing? JohnT, John T. Blair? WA4OHZ???? email:? jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va????????????? ?? ?? Phone:? (757) 495-8229 ? 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) ? ? 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)?? 48 TR1800??? 48 #4 Midget?? 65 & 77 Spitfire?? 71 Saab Sonett III?? 65 Rambler Classic?? 65 Volvo P1800 ? Morgan:??? http://autox.team.net/morgan/ Bricklin:???? http://www.bricklin.org ? If you can read this???????????? - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! ? >From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: ???? e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." ???? In God We Trust ???? Liberty - the? power? of? choosing,? thinking,? and? acting? for? ????????????????? oneself; freedom? from? control? or? restriction? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation? $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdinnis at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 06:07:43 2023 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 07:07:43 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes unfortunately, but I don't think you will benefit from my experience. I never did get to talk to a person and both of my warranty requests were denied. I have since sold all my SK tools and won't have anything to do with them. On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 10:48?PM Moose wrote: > Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? (like a person on the > inside?) > > I have a breaker bar that broke. I went to their website and filled out > their form to request a 'repair kit' a while ago. > > I only received an email response that was the text I filled out in the > online form. No additional information, no way to follow up or if they > even would be sending the repair kit. > > Anyone have any experience with this? > > Thanks. > > Moose_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 06:39:45 2023 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 05:39:45 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have always loved SK tools, particularly for working on motorcycles, little British cars, etc., where the thin design will fit where other tools would not. They have changed ownership and I believe that some of the legacy websites, etc., may not be staffed. I believe this is the current site for warranty claims on older SK tools: SK Tools USA, LLC (skhandtoolllc.myshopify.com) On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 5:24?AM John Innis wrote: > Yes unfortunately, but I don't think you will benefit from my experience. > I never did get to talk to a person and both of my warranty requests were > denied. I have since sold all my SK tools and won't have anything to do > with them. > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 10:48?PM Moose wrote: > >> Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? (like a person on the >> inside?) >> >> I have a breaker bar that broke. I went to their website and filled out >> their form to request a 'repair kit' a while ago. >> >> I only received an email response that was the text I filled out in the >> online form. No additional information, no way to follow up or if they >> even would be sending the repair kit. >> >> Anyone have any experience with this? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Moose_______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com >> >> > > -- > ================================= > = Never offend people with style when you = > = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = > ================================= > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -- Best, Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phoenix722 at comcast.net Wed Dec 6 08:25:45 2023 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 07:25:45 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a socket set that I got 70 years ago and have never had a problem with them.? And they have seen some torque!? Are they no longer quality tools? Mike On 12/6/23 5:39 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: > I have always loved SK tools, particularly for working on motorcycles, > little British cars, etc., where the thin design will fit where other > tools would not. > > They have changed ownership and I believe that some of the legacy > websites, etc., may not be staffed. > > I believe?this is the current site for warranty claims on older SK tools: > SK Tools USA, LLC (skhandtoolllc.myshopify.com) > > > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 5:24?AM John Innis wrote: > > Yes unfortunately, but I don't think you will benefit from my > experience.? I never did get to talk to a person and both of my > warranty requests were denied.? I have since sold all my SK tools > and won't have anything to do with them. > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 10:48?PM Moose wrote: > > Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? ?(like a > person on the inside?) > > I have a breaker bar that broke.? I went to their website and > filled out their form to request a 'repair kit' a while ago. > > I only received an email response that was the text I filled > out in the online form.? No additional information, no way to > follow up or if they even would be sending the repair kit. > > Anyone have any experience with this? > > Thanks. > > Moose_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation? $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > > > -- > ================================= > = Never offend people with style when you?? = > = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown? = > ================================= > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation? $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > > > -- > Best, > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maynerdfamily at msn.com Wed Dec 6 10:40:34 2023 From: maynerdfamily at msn.com (Brian and Wendy Warrick) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 17:40:34 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have local tool store that has been the SK rep for many years. My dad and I both have a bunch of SK rachets and sockets. Anytime they needed repair we would take them into the store and they would throw a repair kit in or replace the socket. He went in a few weeks ago to have a rachet repaired. The store cannot even get repair kits from SK anymore! Seems like the new ownership has cheapened the product as well as making warranty and repairs difficult to impossible. I personally am going to shy away from SK tools going forward. Sadly, I think they are a shell of what they used to be. Brian Nampa, ID ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Mike Sinclair Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2023 8:25 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] SK returns I have a socket set that I got 70 years ago and have never had a problem with them. And they have seen some torque! Are they no longer quality tools? Mike On 12/6/23 5:39 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: I have always loved SK tools, particularly for working on motorcycles, little British cars, etc., where the thin design will fit where other tools would not. They have changed ownership and I believe that some of the legacy websites, etc., may not be staffed. I believe this is the current site for warranty claims on older SK tools: SK Tools USA, LLC (skhandtoolllc.myshopify.com) On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 5:24?AM John Innis > wrote: Yes unfortunately, but I don't think you will benefit from my experience. I never did get to talk to a person and both of my warranty requests were denied. I have since sold all my SK tools and won't have anything to do with them. On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 10:48?PM Moose > wrote: Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? (like a person on the inside?) I have a breaker bar that broke. I went to their website and filled out their form to request a 'repair kit' a while ago. I only received an email response that was the text I filled out in the online form. No additional information, no way to follow up or if they even would be sending the repair kit. Anyone have any experience with this? Thanks. Moose_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com -- Best, Doug _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 11:53:06 2023 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 10:53:06 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very sorry to hear this news. I have been a loyal SK buyer for over 50 years, some of my favorite tools are SK. I used to be a loyal Milwaukee tool guy for all of the electric tools (hole shooter, sawzall, etc.), but they now are Chinese-owned and are not the same, either. I also have US-made Proto and Klein and I like them as well, so we will see what happens... On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 10:42?AM Brian and Wendy Warrick < maynerdfamily at msn.com> wrote: > We have local tool store that has been the SK rep for many years. My dad > and I both have a bunch of SK rachets and sockets. Anytime they needed > repair we would take them into the store and they would throw a repair kit > in or replace the socket. > > He went in a few weeks ago to have a rachet repaired. The store cannot > even get repair kits from SK anymore! Seems like the new ownership has > cheapened the product as well as making warranty and repairs difficult to > impossible. I personally am going to shy away from SK tools going forward. > Sadly, I think they are a shell of what they used to be. > > Brian > Nampa, ID > ------------------------------ > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of Mike > Sinclair > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 6, 2023 8:25 AM > *To:* shop-talk at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] SK returns > > > I have a socket set that I got 70 years ago and have never had a problem > with them. And they have seen some torque! Are they no longer quality > tools? > > Mike > On 12/6/23 5:39 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: > > I have always loved SK tools, particularly for working on motorcycles, > little British cars, etc., where the thin design will fit where other tools > would not. > > They have changed ownership and I believe that some of the legacy > websites, etc., may not be staffed. > > I believe this is the current site for warranty claims on older SK tools: > SK Tools USA, LLC (skhandtoolllc.myshopify.com) > > > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 5:24?AM John Innis wrote: > > Yes unfortunately, but I don't think you will benefit from my experience. > I never did get to talk to a person and both of my warranty requests were > denied. I have since sold all my SK tools and won't have anything to do > with them. > > On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 10:48?PM Moose wrote: > > Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? (like a person on the > inside?) > > I have a breaker bar that broke. I went to their website and filled out > their form to request a 'repair kit' a while ago. > > I only received an email response that was the text I filled out in the > online form. No additional information, no way to follow up or if they > even would be sending the repair kit. > > Anyone have any experience with this? > > Thanks. > > Moose_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > > > -- > ================================= > = Never offend people with style when you = > = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = > ================================= > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > > > -- > Best, > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -- Best, Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 6 12:50:32 2023 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 13:50:32 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Dec 5, 2023, at 22:47, Moose wrote: > > ?Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? (like a person on the inside?) > Ideal sold the brand to great star, who are a Chinese company that have bought a number of American brands. Shop-vac, arrow (the stapler people ), Pony, probably others. The currently available sk stuff is the same as DuraTech (another great star brand), apparently, made in China I have a set of pipe wrenches from dt (not plumbing wrenches, but cl? ? pipe style). They?re pretty nice, but they have not been used hard. I expect great star will honor the warranty from prior to the acquisition, but you will get a Chinese version. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phoenix722 at comcast.net Wed Dec 6 14:05:35 2023 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2023 13:05:35 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10fdadff-e450-4779-8734-886a222b77e9@comcast.net> Good ol' Proto.? I have a 15mm box/open end wrench that I found on the road.? Brand new looking.? Even better, my metric set skips the 15mm, and it just fits the oil drain plug on my Honda.? Lucky me.? Unlucky somebody. Mike On 12/6/23 10:53 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: > Very sorry to hear this news. I have been a loyal SK buyer for over 50 > years, some of my favorite tools are SK. > > I used to be a loyal Milwaukee tool guy for all of the electric tools > (hole shooter, sawzall, etc.), but they now are Chinese-owned and are > not the same, either. > > I also have US-made Proto and Klein and I like them as well, so we > will see what happens... > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 10:42?AM Brian and Wendy Warrick > wrote: > > We have local tool store that has been the SK rep for many years. > My dad and I both have a bunch of SK rachets and sockets. Anytime > they needed repair we would take them into the store and they > would throw a repair kit in or replace the socket. > > He went in a few weeks ago to have a rachet repaired. The store > cannot even get repair kits from SK anymore! Seems like the new > ownership has cheapened the product as well as making warranty and > repairs difficult to impossible. I personally am going to shy away > from SK tools going forward. Sadly, I think they are a shell of > what they used to be. > > Brian > Nampa, ID > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of > Mike Sinclair > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 6, 2023 8:25 AM > *To:* shop-talk at autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] SK returns > > I have a socket set that I got 70 years ago and have never had a > problem with them.? And they have seen some torque!? Are they no > longer quality tools? > > Mike > > On 12/6/23 5:39 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: >> I have always loved SK tools, particularly for working on >> motorcycles, little British cars, etc., where the thin design >> will fit where other tools would not. >> >> They have changed ownership and I believe that some of the legacy >> websites, etc., may not be staffed. >> >> I believe?this is the current site for warranty claims on older >> SK tools: >> SK Tools USA, LLC (skhandtoolllc.myshopify.com) >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 5:24?AM John Innis wrote: >> >> Yes unfortunately, but I don't think you will benefit from my >> experience.? I never did get to talk to a person and both of >> my warranty requests were denied.? I have since sold all my >> SK tools and won't have anything to do with them. >> >> On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 10:48?PM Moose wrote: >> >> Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? ?(like a >> person on the inside?) >> >> I have a breaker bar that broke.? I went to their website >> and filled out their form to request a 'repair kit' a >> while ago. >> >> I only received an email response that was the text I >> filled out in the online form.? No additional >> information, no way to follow up or if they even would be >> sending the repair kit. >> >> Anyone have any experience with this? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Moose_______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation? $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> ================================= >> = Never offend people with style when you?? = >> = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown? = >> ================================= >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation? $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Best, >> >> Doug >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation? $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > > > -- > Best, > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pethier7 at gmail.com Tue Dec 12 11:39:50 2023 From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Philip Ethier) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 12:39:50 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] SK returns In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I seem to remember my family having old tools labeled SK Wayne or the like. On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 1:31?PM old dirtbeard wrote: > Very sorry to hear this news. I have been a loyal SK buyer for over 50 > years, some of my favorite tools are SK. > > I used to be a loyal Milwaukee tool guy for all of the electric tools > (hole shooter, sawzall, etc.), but they now are Chinese-owned and are not > the same, either. > > I also have US-made Proto and Klein and I like them as well, so we will > see what happens... > > On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 10:42?AM Brian and Wendy Warrick < > maynerdfamily at msn.com> wrote: > >> We have local tool store that has been the SK rep for many years. My dad >> and I both have a bunch of SK rachets and sockets. Anytime they needed >> repair we would take them into the store and they would throw a repair kit >> in or replace the socket. >> >> He went in a few weeks ago to have a rachet repaired. The store cannot >> even get repair kits from SK anymore! Seems like the new ownership has >> cheapened the product as well as making warranty and repairs difficult to >> impossible. I personally am going to shy away from SK tools going forward. >> Sadly, I think they are a shell of what they used to be. >> >> Brian >> Nampa, ID >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of Mike >> Sinclair >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 6, 2023 8:25 AM >> *To:* shop-talk at autox.team.net >> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] SK returns >> >> >> I have a socket set that I got 70 years ago and have never had a problem >> with them. And they have seen some torque! Are they no longer quality >> tools? >> >> Mike >> On 12/6/23 5:39 AM, old dirtbeard wrote: >> >> I have always loved SK tools, particularly for working on motorcycles, >> little British cars, etc., where the thin design will fit where other tools >> would not. >> >> They have changed ownership and I believe that some of the legacy >> websites, etc., may not be staffed. >> >> I believe this is the current site for warranty claims on older SK tools: >> SK Tools USA, LLC (skhandtoolllc.myshopify.com) >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 6, 2023 at 5:24?AM John Innis wrote: >> >> Yes unfortunately, but I don't think you will benefit from my >> experience. I never did get to talk to a person and both of my warranty >> requests were denied. I have since sold all my SK tools and won't have >> anything to do with them. >> >> On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 10:48?PM Moose wrote: >> >> Does anyone have any contact info for SK tools? (like a person on the >> inside?) >> >> I have a breaker bar that broke. I went to their website and filled out >> their form to request a 'repair kit' a while ago. >> >> I only received an email response that was the text I filled out in the >> online form. No additional information, no way to follow up or if they >> even would be sending the repair kit. >> >> Anyone have any experience with this? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Moose_______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> ================================= >> = Never offend people with style when you = >> = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = >> ================================= >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Best, >> >> Doug >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com >> >> > > -- > Best, > > Doug > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com > > -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl, Gone but not forgotten 2006 Gulf Stream Conquest Super C, 8.1, White 2011 Cayman 2.9 PDK, White 2017 Ford Fusion SE 2.0 Turbo, Oxford White www.mnautox.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jniolon at att.net Wed Dec 13 07:36:18 2023 From: jniolon at att.net (john) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 08:36:18 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater References: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6.ref@johns-desktop> Message-ID: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> Tired of water in my shop sink being so cold in the winter that my fingers lock up when I wash my hands...Thinking about a tankless water heater... Will have limited use, not like a unit in a home and it can't break the bank. 110 v vrs 220 v. ?? I can wire both but it's a pain to do in a cramped attic and 76 year old body... what's best ?? suggestions ?? thanks john -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjcora at icloud.com Wed Dec 13 08:16:21 2023 From: tjcora at icloud.com (Tom Coradeschi) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:16:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater In-Reply-To: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> References: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> Message-ID: <9FCF6517-4A5D-4070-B8E5-1503FFC5C24A@icloud.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: rheem.png Type: image/png Size: 18158 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bjzwissler at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 08:23:39 2023 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Benjamin Zwissler) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:23:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater In-Reply-To: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> References: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6.ref@johns-desktop> <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> Message-ID: You might want to consider a "point-of-use" unit. They're essentially small tank style heaters that can easily fit under a sink. The reason I recommend this is that they can heat the water with less power so you don't need 220V. I see several 110V units on Amazon from Bosch and Rheem for $200-300 that hold a few gallons of water. I also saw a few cheaper no-name units that claimed to be tankless and 3000W, but had a normal 110V plug. You can't pull more than 15 A at 110V from the plug shown and that limits you to about 1650W. At that power I'm not sure how hot you could get the water if they are truly tankless. It would take the chill off but may not make it "hot". Anyway, one lie makes me question everything they say, so buyer beware. The Bosch unit said 1440W or 12 amps at 120V. Very doable with "typical" wiring. Ben Ben Zwissler bjzwissler at gmail.com 812-343-5533 Columbus, IN On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 9:53?AM john wrote: > Tired of water in my shop sink being so cold in the winter that my fingers > lock up when I wash my hands...Thinking > about a tankless water heater... Will have limited use, not like a unit in > a home and it can't break the bank. > > 110 v vrs 220 v. ?? I can wire both but it's a pain to do in a cramped > attic and 76 year old body... > > what's best ?? suggestions ?? > > thanks > john > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 1789alpine at gmail.com Wed Dec 13 09:28:11 2023 From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:28:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater In-Reply-To: <9FCF6517-4A5D-4070-B8E5-1503FFC5C24A@icloud.com> References: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> <9FCF6517-4A5D-4070-B8E5-1503FFC5C24A@icloud.com> Message-ID: If you really just want it for washing your hands, something like this should be more than enough. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Electric-Mini-Tank-Heater-2-5-Gallon/dp/B0148O658Y/ref=sr_1_5?crid=18UQX0CNA7W4Q&keywords=under%2Bsink%2Bwater%2Bheater%2Belectric&qid=1702484567&sprefix=under%2Bsink%2Bwater%2Bheater%2Belectric%2Caps%2C100&sr=8-5&th=1. I got tired of waiting for hot water to reach my kitchen sink for quick hand washing, etc and installed the 7 gallon version and it has been perfect. I put it in the hot water line about 5 feet from the sink (the closest place it could be easily installed) and we get quick hot water when we need it. Unless they have made changes from when I did this about 3 years ago, the 7 gallon version needs to be hard-wired to a dedicated line, while the 2.5 and 4 gallon ones can just be plugged in, which makes them a lot easier to install. > On Dec 13, 2023, at 10:16 AM, Tom Coradeschi wrote: > > I have a Rheem (gas fired) and am very pleased with it. This is their 120V electric unit > > https://www.rheem.com/product/rheem-professional-classic-series-rtex-04-rtex-06-rtex-04/ > > Tom Coradeschi > tjcora at icloud.com > >> On Dec 13, 2023, at 10:08?AM, john wrote: >> >> ? >> Tired of water in my shop sink being so cold in the winter that my fingers lock up when I wash my hands...Thinking >> about a tankless water heater... Will have limited use, not like a unit in a home and it can't break the bank. >> >> 110 v vrs 220 v. ?? I can wire both but it's a pain to do in a cramped attic and 76 year old body... >> >> what's best ?? suggestions ?? >> >> thanks >> john >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Wed Dec 13 09:51:20 2023 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:51:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater In-Reply-To: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> References: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6.ref@johns-desktop> <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> Message-ID: <40c47544-cc22-4807-a41f-5cbf443ba6e4@sackheads.org> On 12/13/23 09:36, john wrote: > Tired of water in my shop sink being so cold in the winter that my > fingers lock up when I wash my hands...Thinking > about a tankless water heater... Will have limited use, not like a > unit in a home and it can't break the bank. > 110 v vrs 220 v. ??? I can wire both but it's a pain to do in a > cramped attic and 76 year old body... > what's best ??? suggestions ?? Back before COVID when I had an office, our bathrooms had a point-of-use tankless heater under the sinks.? I'm pretty sure they were 120 at 20A.? One heater fed 4 sinks.? Seemed to work fine. Water could get uncomfortably hot. J -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Wed Dec 13 09:51:54 2023 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:51:54 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater In-Reply-To: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> References: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> Message-ID: I have installed a few tankless units over the years 220v & propane. I?d suggest you run heavy enough wire to support the highest current that might be needed just in case. Both will require 2 conductors plus ground. An alternative might be a small (1-2 gallon) tank type heater that you turn on when you start work. It can be plugged into a 120v outlet. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Dec 13, 2023, at 9:07?AM, john wrote: ? Tired of water in my shop sink being so cold in the winter that my fingers lock up when I wash my hands...Thinking about a tankless water heater... Will have limited use, not like a unit in a home and it can't break the bank. 110 v vrs 220 v. ?? I can wire both but it's a pain to do in a cramped attic and 76 year old body... what's best ?? suggestions ?? thanks john _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dreinsch at swbell.net Wed Dec 13 09:56:28 2023 From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:56:28 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36527DE9-3A49-4DA0-B4FB-49DF88A63C6B@swbell.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbarre at juno.com Wed Dec 13 10:10:35 2023 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 17:10:35 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater Message-ID: <20231213.121035.13330.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com> I have a no name 110V unit servicing my shop bathroom and it was surprisingly cheap 17 years ago. It did require very thick wire for the amps but it does a great job for the wash basin. Not sure how hot it can keep the shower with the higher flow though. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "john" To: "shop-talk" Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 08:36:18 -0600 Tired of water in my shop sink being so cold in the winter that my fingers lock up when I wash my hands...Thinkingabout a tankless water heater... Will have limited use, not like a unit in a home and it can't break the bank. 110 v vrs 220 v. ?? I can wire both but it's a pain to do in a cramped attic and 76 year old body... what's best ?? suggestions ?? thanksjohn From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 09:32:25 2023 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:32:25 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater In-Reply-To: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> References: <1UerqngU9G.46HPvsswpf6@johns-desktop> Message-ID: <53FB57D2-EE53-4E53-8E41-6D3A5DD04FBE@gmail.com> > On Dec 13, 2023, at 09:01, john wrote: > ? > Tired of water in my shop sink being so cold in the winter that my fingers lock up when I wash my hands...Thinking > about a tankless water heater... Will have limited use, not like a unit in a home and it can't break the bank. > > 110 v vrs 220 v. ?? I can wire both but it's a pain to do in a cramped attic and 76 year old body... > > I second the suggestion for a small tank heater. My past office had one for the suite kitchen. It was probably 5 gallons, and was plenty for that case. It was connected with a normal plug. (It was probably on a dedicated circuit.). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjcora at icloud.com Fri Dec 15 06:56:30 2023 From: tjcora at icloud.com (Tom Coradeschi) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 08:56:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] instant water heater In-Reply-To: <9FCF6517-4A5D-4070-B8E5-1503FFC5C24A@icloud.com> References: <9FCF6517-4A5D-4070-B8E5-1503FFC5C24A@icloud.com> Message-ID: <171CB187-BD60-4E0B-8DB0-A1A182BA11EA@icloud.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Thu Dec 21 02:51:49 2023 From: eric at megageek.com (Moose) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 04:51:49 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Fume Extractors Message-ID: Hello to all. I got to the point where I need a REAL Welding Fume Extractor. Looking around, I see lots of smaller ones dressed up like real ones for welding. Does anyone have any recommendations? Budget is around $500, but would go to $1000 if it necessary. I need it for welding and for the laser rust remover. One other question, would you be able to use one if you are grinding/sanding fiberglass? TIA. Moose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sun Dec 24 09:29:29 2023 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2023 08:29:29 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor Bearing Sizes Message-ID: Merry Christmas Shoptalkers! I've pulled the head, pan and pistons from my ancient Ford 851 tractor (it was burning and belching oil and, well, it was time). Head actually not in bad shape; all but one cyl pass the (liquid) 'leak down' test--valves hold solvent in upside-down chambers--but I'll get a valve job anyway. Couple rod bearings worn but not bad, one pretty bad and one with all babbit(?) gone and copper substrate fragmented (prob would have seized in a few more hours). I plan to drop the main caps and, hopefully, extract the upper shells without having to pull the crank. Cylinder bores smooth but in good shape; I'm thinking ball hone and new rings. My questions: 1: Can I tap the crank's upper bearing shells out, then replace upper and lower w/o pulling the crank (not at option)? 2: Since I can't pull the crank, and it's not worth removing and grinding/polishing anyway, can I determine what size bearings to use--rods too--by just measuring the old bearings and getting an idea if they're over/under and, if so, by how much? All answers appreciated. Bob From fishplate at gmail.com Sun Dec 24 10:19:50 2023 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2023 12:19:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor Bearing Sizes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 1. Maybe? I don't know about your particular tractor, but I have rolled the old main bearings (on a Triumph), just by pushing on the end without the tank and grabbing it on the other when it starts out. New ones just roll in. Requires all the caps to be loose. If they are sticky, you might get lucky by sliding a roll pin into an oil hole in the crank and turning the crank to push the bearing shell out. Note that this can introduce problems that you didn't use to have. Be governed accordingly. 2. A good pair of sharp-pointed calipers may reach in the gap well enough that, with a slightly dropped crank due to loose caps, you might get an accurate journal measurement. You could also use Plasti-Gage with new bearings to see if you guessed correctly. Could be expensive if you guess wrong, though. The shells *should* be a guide, if you can find an accurate dimension for new shells. Sounds like loads of fun for the New Year! On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 11:57?AM Bob Spidell wrote: > Merry Christmas Shoptalkers! > > I've pulled the head, pan and pistons from my ancient Ford 851 tractor > (it was burning and belching oil and, well, it was time). Head actually > not in bad shape; all but one cyl pass the (liquid) 'leak down' > test--valves hold solvent in upside-down chambers--but I'll get a valve > job anyway. Couple rod bearings worn but not bad, one pretty bad and one > with all babbit(?) gone and copper substrate fragmented (prob would have > seized in a few more hours). I plan to drop the main caps and, > hopefully, extract the upper shells without having to pull the crank. > Cylinder bores smooth but in good shape; I'm thinking ball hone and new > rings. > > My questions: > > 1: Can I tap the crank's upper bearing shells out, then replace upper > and lower w/o pulling the crank (not at option)? > > 2: Since I can't pull the crank, and it's not worth removing and > grinding/polishing anyway, can I determine what size bearings to > use--rods too--by just measuring the old bearings and getting an idea if > they're over/under and, if so, by how much? > > All answers appreciated. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jibrooks at live.com Sun Dec 24 12:47:05 2023 From: jibrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2023 19:47:05 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor Bearing Sizes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeff beat me to the punch. I also did this on a Triumph. My 1960 TR3. It was fairly simple procedure. Jack ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jeff Scarbrough Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2023 10:19:50 AM To: Bob Spidell Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tractor Bearing Sizes 1. Maybe? I don't know about your particular tractor, but I have rolled the old main bearings (on a Triumph), just by pushing on the end without the tank and grabbing it on the other when it starts out. New ones just roll in. Requires all the caps to be loose. If they are sticky, you might get lucky by sliding a roll pin into an oil hole in the crank and turning the crank to push the bearing shell out. Note that this can introduce problems that you didn't use to have. Be governed accordingly. 2. A good pair of sharp-pointed calipers may reach in the gap well enough that, with a slightly dropped crank due to loose caps, you might get an accurate journal measurement. You could also use Plasti-Gage with new bearings to see if you guessed correctly. Could be expensive if you guess wrong, though. The shells *should* be a guide, if you can find an accurate dimension for new shells. Sounds like loads of fun for the New Year! On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 11:57?AM Bob Spidell > wrote: Merry Christmas Shoptalkers! I've pulled the head, pan and pistons from my ancient Ford 851 tractor (it was burning and belching oil and, well, it was time). Head actually not in bad shape; all but one cyl pass the (liquid) 'leak down' test--valves hold solvent in upside-down chambers--but I'll get a valve job anyway. Couple rod bearings worn but not bad, one pretty bad and one with all babbit(?) gone and copper substrate fragmented (prob would have seized in a few more hours). I plan to drop the main caps and, hopefully, extract the upper shells without having to pull the crank. Cylinder bores smooth but in good shape; I'm thinking ball hone and new rings. My questions: 1: Can I tap the crank's upper bearing shells out, then replace upper and lower w/o pulling the crank (not at option)? 2: Since I can't pull the crank, and it's not worth removing and grinding/polishing anyway, can I determine what size bearings to use--rods too--by just measuring the old bearings and getting an idea if they're over/under and, if so, by how much? All answers appreciated. Bob _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sun Dec 24 13:07:16 2023 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2023 12:07:16 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor Bearing Sizes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6ba3d505-4ce9-408e-9093-ff1bc12feeeb@comcast.net> Getting the List back in the loop. Tractor is a ca. 1953 Ford 851 (6V pos. gnd.). It's got a buck rake on front, and is not often used but indispensable when I need to buck brush out of my orchard. I'm doing a "poor man's overhaul;" e.g. valves, hone, rings and main and rod bearings, no need to pull the crank as it's a PITA and with new wear items it'll outlast me. I've got the rod bearings out; I don't have machinist-grade measuring tools so if I can figure out what size bearings are in there--mains TBD--I'll just put new of same size back in. Does this look like a 0.020" undersize bearing from the inscription? It's confusing because my ordering options all call them 'oversize,' when I'd bet money the crank and rod journals have been ground at least once ('oversize' vs. 'undersize' depends on your perspective, I suppose, but generally 'undersize' bearings are thicker for journals that have been ground, no?). Bob On 12/24/2023 11:47 AM, Jack Brooks wrote: > Jeff beat me to the punch.? I also did this on a Triumph. My 1960 TR3. > It was fairly simple procedure. > > Jack > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of Jeff > Scarbrough > *Sent:* Sunday, December 24, 2023 10:19:50 AM > *To:* Bob Spidell > *Cc:* Shop Talk > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Tractor Bearing Sizes > 1.? Maybe?? I don't know about your particular tractor, but I have > rolled the old main bearings (on a Triumph), just by pushing on the > end without the tank and grabbing it on the other when it starts out.? > New ones just roll in.? Requires all the caps to be loose.? If they > are sticky, you might get lucky by sliding a roll pin into an oil hole > in the crank and turning the crank to push the bearing shell out.? > Note that this can introduce problems that you didn't use to have.? Be > governed accordingly. > > 2.? A good pair of sharp-pointed calipers?may reach in the gap well > enough that, with a slightly dropped crank due to loose caps, you > might get an accurate journal measurement.? ?You could also use > Plasti-Gage with new bearings to see if you guessed correctly.? Could > be expensive if you guess wrong, though.? The shells *should* be a > guide, if you can find an accurate dimension for new shells. > > Sounds like loads of fun for the New Year! > > > > On Sun, Dec 24, 2023 at 11:57?AM Bob Spidell wrote: > > Merry Christmas Shoptalkers! > > I've pulled the head, pan and pistons from my ancient Ford 851 > tractor > (it was burning and belching oil and, well, it was time). Head > actually > not in bad shape; all but one cyl pass the (liquid) 'leak down' > test--valves hold solvent in upside-down chambers--but I'll get a > valve > job anyway. Couple rod bearings worn but not bad, one pretty bad > and one > with all babbit(?) gone and copper substrate fragmented (prob > would have > seized in a few more hours). I plan to drop the main caps and, > hopefully, extract the upper shells without having to pull the crank. > Cylinder bores smooth but in good shape; I'm thinking ball hone > and new > rings. > > My questions: > > 1: Can I tap the crank's upper bearing shells out, then replace upper > and lower w/o pulling the crank (not at option)? > > 2: Since I can't pull the crank, and it's not worth removing and > grinding/polishing anyway, can I determine what size bearings to > use--rods too--by just measuring the old bearings and getting an > idea if > they're over/under and, if so, by how much? > > All answers appreciated. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation? $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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