From jniolon at att.net  Thu Aug  4 08:00:55 2022
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 09:00:55 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>

Well, 
I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports , basically an internet search device only
 
I use an old cell phone and Spotify for music download bluetoothed to an Esinkin Bluetooth receiver connected to my old
Pioneer stereo system... But wireless internet inside the shop is spotty and Spotify doesn't 
always work well
 
Sooo 
I'm thinking ? download Spotify to my laptop that has good internet connectivity (thanks Peter Murrey) and Bluetooth to
the Esinkin unit...   but the old Dell doesn't 
have Bluetooth.
 
I'm looking for an adapter to install so I can attach my laptop wirelessly to an Esinkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver connected to my stereo in the shop
 
Most I find aren't 
compatibly with XP or must have usb 3.0 ? and none of the vendors I ask will 
reply...
 
anyone have a suggestion >>??
 
thanks
john
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Thu Aug  4 10:09:20 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 11:09:20 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
In-Reply-To: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <9C64D8F3-4D49-4534-9ECE-91CF33860609@icloud.com>

What Latitude do you have? Some have slots inside for Bluetooth interfaces. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 4, 2022, at 11:05 AM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
Well, I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports , basically an internet search device only
 
I use an old cell phone and Spotify for music download bluetoothed to an Esinkin Bluetooth receiver connected to my old
Pioneer stereo system... But wireless internet inside the shop is spotty and Spotify doesn't always work well
 
Sooo I'm thinking ? download Spotify to my laptop that has good internet connectivity (thanks Peter Murrey) and Bluetooth to
the Esinkin unit...   but the old Dell doesn't have Bluetooth.
 
I'm looking for an adapter to install so I can attach my laptop wirelessly to an Esinkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver connected to my stereo in the shop
 
Most I find aren't compatibly with XP or must have usb 3.0 ? and none of the vendors I ask will reply...
 
anyone have a suggestion >>??
 
thanks
john
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

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From neiljsherry at talktalk.net  Thu Aug  4 13:54:13 2022
From: neiljsherry at talktalk.net (neiljsherry at talktalk.net)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2022 20:54:13 +0100
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
In-Reply-To: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <69AA12C3-7D88-475B-BDDC-077C65C8E9F5@talktalk.net>

Why not just take a line out of the laptop straight to the Pioneer unit? Can't see what value the Bluetooth adds

On 4 August 2022 15:00:55 BST, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>Well, I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
>I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports , basically an internet search device only
>
>Sooo I'm thinking ? download Spotify to my laptop that has good internet connectivity (thanks Peter Murrey) and Bluetooth to
>the Esinkin unit...   but the old Dell doesn't have Bluetooth.
>
>I'm looking for an adapter to install so I can attach my laptop wirelessly to an Esinkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver connected to my stereo in the shop

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 18:03:35 2022
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:03:35 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
In-Reply-To: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CE7C6B1D-87F1-48C4-9053-A773C7B3039F@gmail.com>



> On Aug 4, 2022, at 11:00, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Well, I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
> I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports , basically an internet search device only


Windows  do was been un supporters for 8 years.  It always had a shittybluetooth stack, 
So it?s not a surprise you can?t find anything. Use wires, or an operating system less likely to be infested with malware the second it?s connected to the internet. 


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From alfuller194 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 18:12:31 2022
From: alfuller194 at gmail.com (Al Fuller)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 17:12:31 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
In-Reply-To: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CADkpZwF75SbrzCVq6aB-D4S5R1WmYuXYeD7+Chq=CZ8uBafRYQ@mail.gmail.com>

This one says it works with XP and USB 2.0...
https://www.amazon.com/Panda-Bluetooth-4-0-Nano-Adapter/dp/B00BCU4TZE



________________
Best Regards,
Al Fuller

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 8:55 AM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> Well, I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
> I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports ,
> basically an internet search device only
>
> I use an old cell phone and Spotify for music download bluetoothed to an
> Esinkin Bluetooth receiver connected to my old
> Pioneer stereo system... But wireless internet inside the shop is spotty
> and Spotify doesn't always work well
>
> Sooo I'm thinking ? download Spotify to my laptop that has good internet
> connectivity (thanks Peter Murrey) and Bluetooth to
> the Esinkin unit...   but the old Dell doesn't have Bluetooth.
>
> I'm looking for an adapter to install so I can attach my laptop wirelessly
> to an Esinkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver connected to my stereo in the shop
>
> Most I find aren't compatibly with XP or must have usb 3.0 ? and none of
> the vendors I ask will reply...
>
> anyone have a suggestion >>??
>
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/alfuller194 at gmail.com
>
>
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From JIBrooks at live.com  Thu Aug  4 22:41:43 2022
From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 04:41:43 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
In-Reply-To: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CY5PR11MB6533F8C507ACCE2C50FBBCC9A89E9@CY5PR11MB6533.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

John,

They have been out there, at least at some time. This is a Bluetooth transmitter which works on USB 2.0.  There are no marking on the other side.

There are a lot of Bluetooth dongles on Amazon.  You can easily return on that does not work.

Jack

[cid:image003.jpg at 01D8A84A.9F2889F0]

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of john niolon
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2022 7:01 AM
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question

Well, I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports , basically an internet search device only

I use an old cell phone and Spotify for music download bluetoothed to an Esinkin Bluetooth receiver connected to my old
Pioneer stereo system... But wireless internet inside the shop is spotty and Spotify doesn't always work well

Sooo I'm thinking ? download Spotify to my laptop that has good internet connectivity (thanks Peter Murrey) and Bluetooth to
the Esinkin unit...   but the old Dell doesn't have Bluetooth.

I'm looking for an adapter to install so I can attach my laptop wirelessly to an Esinkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver connected to my stereo in the shop

Most I find aren't compatibly with XP or must have usb 3.0 ? and none of the vendors I ask will reply...

anyone have a suggestion >>??

thanks
john
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From jniolon at att.net  Fri Aug  5 05:49:31 2022
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 06:49:31 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
In-Reply-To: <CADkpZwF75SbrzCVq6aB-D4S5R1WmYuXYeD7+Chq=CZ8uBafRYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
 <CADkpZwF75SbrzCVq6aB-D4S5R1WmYuXYeD7+Chq=CZ8uBafRYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1Ububywkxp.COPGEPH1GVQ@johns-desktop>

per one suggestion I searched and found a Bluetooth card that was made for the 
latitude.. 
It's on the way...if that works we can forget
adapters I hope.  thanks for all the info and support   I'll 
report on the findings
 
j

 

----- Original Message -----
From: Al Fuller <alfuller194 at gmail.com>
To: Shop Talk <Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/4/2022 7:12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] shop computer question



This one says it works with XP and USB 2.0...  
https://www.amazon.com/Panda-Bluetooth-4-0-Nano-Adapter/dp/B00BCU4TZE





________________
Best Regards,
Al Fuller


On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 8:55 AM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

Well, 
I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports , basically an internet search device only
 
I use an old cell phone and Spotify for music download bluetoothed to an Esinkin Bluetooth receiver connected to my old
Pioneer stereo system... But wireless internet inside the shop is spotty and Spotify doesn't 
always work well
 
Sooo 
I'm thinking ? download Spotify to my laptop that has good internet connectivity (thanks Peter Murrey) and Bluetooth to
the Esinkin unit...   but the old Dell doesn't 
have Bluetooth.
 
I'm looking for an adapter to install so I can attach my laptop wirelessly to an Esinkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver connected to my stereo in the shop
 
Most I find aren't 
compatibly with XP or must have usb 3.0 ? and none of the vendors I ask will 
reply...
 
anyone have a suggestion >>??
 
thanks
john
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-
talk/alfuller194 at gmail.com
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From alfuller194 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 19:36:00 2022
From: alfuller194 at gmail.com (Al Fuller)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 18:36:00 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
In-Reply-To: <CE7C6B1D-87F1-48C4-9053-A773C7B3039F@gmail.com>
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
 <CE7C6B1D-87F1-48C4-9053-A773C7B3039F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADkpZwE8S=BcHULGQdHpgSK5aU_k4yBZAbRbqQzqJXjN=YU-5g@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with the idea of migrating to a modern operating system. I have an
old laptop for the garage and when it's OS's time is up I will likely put
either Ubuntu or Chrome OS on it. This one too is basically just an
internet lookup machine, so even if modern Ubuntu runs slow on the old
hardware I'll be okay.

________________
Best Regards,
Al Fuller

On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 7:58 PM David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Aug 4, 2022, at 11:00, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>
> ?
> Well, I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
> I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports ,
> basically an internet search device only
>
>
>
> Windows  do was been un supporters for 8 years.  It always had a
> shittybluetooth stack,
> So it?s not a surprise you can?t find anything. Use wires, or an operating
> system less likely to be infested with malware the second it?s connected to
> the internet.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/alfuller194 at gmail.com
>
>
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Sat Aug  6 08:53:36 2022
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 14:53:36 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question
Message-ID: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

approx 15 year old GE "profile series". I've replaced the fan motor three times over the years.

Now it seems to not want to get cold enough. It has been hovering around 40 degrees for a few weeks now and the freezer at zero. Both are 4-6 degrees warmer than where they are set.

Is this fridge getting ready to take a shit on me? Or is it maybe just in need of a freon charge?

thanks all
tim


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From lspector at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 10:30:20 2022
From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 12:30:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAFNB6WnUMCAuic+2ofC+35nZ64QMqba3ePhyS7zcnJ4-EaRo8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I went through this last year. Replaced the "main board", 3x temperature
sensors, and defroster assembly. It worked OK for a few months before temps
started to go off again. I gave up and replaced it with a Whirlpool fridge
which seems to be much better made.

-Larry

On Sat, Aug 6, 2022 at 12:21 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> approx 15 year old GE "profile series". I've replaced the fan motor three
> times over the years.
>
> Now it seems to not want to get cold enough. It has been hovering around
> 40 degrees for a few weeks now and the freezer at zero. Both are 4-6
> degrees warmer than where they are set.
>
> Is this fridge getting ready to take a shit on me? Or is it maybe just in
> need of a freon charge?
>
> thanks all
> tim
>
>
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From jem at milleredp.com  Sat Aug  6 11:16:57 2022
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2022 10:16:57 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1827428ef40.284e.93404ec37c3bd49215a26b1de215359b@milleredp.com>

Hmmm...we've got a Subzero that's now...31 yr old.   I have cleaned and 
replaced the sealant on the cabinet corners, done two ice makers.   Never 
had any compressor/refrigerant issues.

John

On August 6, 2022 09:16:20 "Tim ." <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
> approx 15 year old GE "profile series". I've replaced the fan motor three 
> times over the years.
>
>
> Now it seems to not want to get cold enough. It has been hovering around 40 
> degrees for a few weeks now and the freezer at zero. Both are 4-6 degrees 
> warmer than where they are set.
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 11:31:59 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 13:31:59 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CPhSkh0fVT2wgY8G9Nu95vUZ0YiN0HMHjY+Lv6G1pEFQg@mail.gmail.com>

Can't speak to your problem exactly, and with considerable knocking on
wood, I relate this tale:

I retired at the end of December 2021.  In January, our 9+ year old
refrigerator (not GE) did similar - it struggled with freezer temps on
occasion, but mostly maintained the refrigerator compartment.  This
particular fridge cools the freezer with coils, and the refrigeration
section with a small van and a motor driving a flap to let frozen air
into the refrigerator part.  That it was cooling fine but not freezing
led me to the same conclusion, after checking everything else I could
find.

I called in the guy everyone in town recommended,and while he didn't
seem to be particularly trained on the nuances of this model, he did
two things:  First, he changed a relay that starts the compressor, but
it quickly was determined that that wasn't the problem (he did leave
the new part in, left me the old part,and did not charge for that).
The second thing he did was add a charge port and put  a shot of freon
into it.  That quickly got things right,and he said that it probably
has a slow leak, and will need either the coils replaced because it's
almost impossible to find a leak, or replace the whole thing.  So, we
started shopping.  Sure enough, we found a good candidate, but had a
hard time finding one available in a time of global shortages.
Meanwhile, the fridge is holding OK, but showing some worrying
fluctuation.  One day in February the stars aligned, as the freezer
compartment had risen to 14 degrees the night before,and I found what
I wanted was actually in stock.  So the next morning, I set out as
newly retired to spend two grand I didn't really want to spend to
replace a 9 year old refrigerator.  But just before I pressed "send",
I happened to look inside the fridge, and the freezer was happily at
zero degrees again.

Since then, there are some days where we might go in the freezer to
get ice or food,and it might rise to 3 or 5 degrees (no higher), but
overnight it always goes back to zero.  Thus the copious knocking on
wood, and it continues to do the job, albeir not perfectly, but well
enough.

Cost us $130 for the service guy to come oput and look it over, try
some stuff, shoot a bit of charge, and give us the bad news.  And in
our case, it bought us six months and counting, with no indication of
the problem returning.   I dunno if that helps you, but the gamble
paid off for us...



On Sat, Aug 6, 2022 at 12:21 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
>
> approx 15 year old GE "profile series". I've replaced the fan motor three times over the years.
>
> Now it seems to not want to get cold enough. It has been hovering around 40 degrees for a few weeks now and the freezer at zero. Both are 4-6 degrees warmer than where they are set.
>
> Is this fridge getting ready to take a shit on me? Or is it maybe just in need of a freon charge?
>
> thanks all
> tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 12:52:49 2022
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 13:52:49 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAK73_u6ovBGhRGJ_chgR=itO82=i26pk597XyxuzQWDOdE3WRA@mail.gmail.com>

Does it have ports, or is it sealed?

On Sat, Aug 6, 2022, 11:13 AM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> approx 15 year old GE "profile series". I've replaced the fan motor three
> times over the years.
>
> Now it seems to not want to get cold enough. It has been hovering around
> 40 degrees for a few weeks now and the freezer at zero. Both are 4-6
> degrees warmer than where they are set.
>
> Is this fridge getting ready to take a shit on me? Or is it maybe just in
> need of a freon charge?
>
> thanks all
> tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com
>
>
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Sat Aug  6 13:04:03 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 14:04:03 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question
In-Reply-To: <1827428ef40.284e.93404ec37c3bd49215a26b1de215359b@milleredp.com>
References: <1827428ef40.284e.93404ec37c3bd49215a26b1de215359b@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <9028330C-3711-447D-93BD-8A9BA2942E4D@icloud.com>

They don?t make fridges like they used to. I also have an old Sub Zero from 1992 that is still going strong. Replaced door seals & defrost timer in 97 & condenser fan & motor last year. On 3rd ice maker. 

New fridges have about 3-5 year lifespan. Pity. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 6, 2022, at 1:56 PM, John Miller <jem at milleredp.com> wrote:

?
Hmmm...we've got a Subzero that's now...31 yr old.   I have cleaned and replaced the sealant on the cabinet corners, done two ice makers.   Never had any compressor/refrigerant issues.  

John 

On August 6, 2022 09:16:20 "Tim ." <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> approx 15 year old GE "profile series". I've replaced the fan motor three times over the years. 
> 
> Now it seems to not want to get cold enough. It has been hovering around 40 degrees for a few weeks now and the freezer at zero. Both are 4-6 degrees warmer than where they are set. 
> 
_______________________________________________

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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Sat Aug  6 13:49:45 2022
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 14:49:45 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YDkHWhVOwXWCeJqyfYLBO8ATu8pkkPvg92W=YX5br9UMA@mail.gmail.com>

We HAD a GE profile about that old.  Until two weeks ago.  Main board went
up in smoke late on a Saturday night.  Still waiting on a new unit.  Bought
a cheap beater off FB that will eventually get demoted to the shop fridge.
If the new one ever gets here....

On Sat, Aug 6, 2022 at 11:20 AM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> approx 15 year old GE "profile series". I've replaced the fan motor three
> times over the years.
>
> Now it seems to not want to get cold enough. It has been hovering around
> 40 degrees for a few weeks now and the freezer at zero. Both are 4-6
> degrees warmer than where they are set.
>
> Is this fridge getting ready to take a shit on me? Or is it maybe just in
> need of a freon charge?
>
> thanks all
> tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
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=================================
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= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue Aug  9 16:13:14 2022
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2022 18:13:14 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Parking Brakes
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1660083199.24406.shop-talk@autox.team.net>


Hey gang,

My nephew came over last weekend to work on his 2019 Honda Civic.  He's
getting an "Electronic Parking Brake" error.

I'd never head of such a thing, and electronic parking brake?

I did a little research on youtube and found out what it is, and sure enough
it IS and electronic parking brake!

So I had some idea what to look for and at when he got here.

He'd had someone replace his rear pads for him.  After that, he started
getting the error.   The fellow that did the job said, he didn't know anything
about the electronic parking brakes.  So my thought was that he'd 
disconnected the connector and hadn't put it back.

Well we were lucky.  After we jacked it up and had it on stands, we pulled
the drivers side first and look at the connector.  It was 
connected.  So I figured, maybe he hadn't do the manual reset of the 
motor.  So I pulled the
motor and tried to manually turn the sprocket.  NO go.  After a little more
diagnostics, listening to the motor on the passengers side and hearing the
motor turn when you set and released the brake, and listening to the driver's
side motor and NOT hearing anything, we concluded it was bad.

So I start looking for a replacement part.  No dealer appears to have any as
they are on National Backorder with no expected delivery date.

Unfortunately, the parking brake system is REQUIRED to hold the car for
State Inspection here in VA.  So my nephew can't get his car state inspected.
So technically he shouldn't be driving the car.  But as everyone knows, you
need a car to get to your job.

So any one with a car with an electronic parking brake (EPB)be leary.  I'm
supprised at the cars that have the EPB system.  Most recient Hondas, BMW
Lincolns, etc.

Looks to me like a case where the engineers got carried away with the idea
that electronics don't fail, but mechanical parts do!

John



John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From patintexas at icloud.com  Tue Aug  9 16:52:16 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 17:52:16 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Parking Brakes
In-Reply-To: <20220809224609.A053FA1508@autox.team.net>
References: <20220809224609.A053FA1508@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <84525097-9362-466B-B147-FD1F42702018@icloud.com>

Have you checked wrecking yards? Or see if you can find a catalytic converter thief who will pull what you need while he?s under a car!

Since the motor is bad, you might try opening it up to see if you can fix it, at least temporarily. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 9, 2022, at 5:46 PM, John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

?
Hey gang,

My nephew came over last weekend to work on his 2019 Honda Civic.  He's
getting an "Electronic Parking Brake" error.

I'd never head of such a thing, and electronic parking brake?

I did a little research on youtube and found out what it is, and sure enough
it IS and electronic parking brake!

So I had some idea what to look for and at when he got here.

He'd had someone replace his rear pads for him.  After that, he started
getting the error.   The fellow that did the job said, he didn't know anything
about the electronic parking brakes.  So my thought was that he'd disconnected the connector and hadn't put it back.

Well we were lucky.  After we jacked it up and had it on stands, we pulled
the drivers side first and look at the connector.  It was connected.  So I figured, maybe he hadn't do the manual reset of the motor.  So I pulled the
motor and tried to manually turn the sprocket.  NO go.  After a little more
diagnostics, listening to the motor on the passengers side and hearing the
motor turn when you set and released the brake, and listening to the driver's
side motor and NOT hearing anything, we concluded it was bad.

So I start looking for a replacement part.  No dealer appears to have any as
they are on National Backorder with no expected delivery date.

Unfortunately, the parking brake system is REQUIRED to hold the car for
State Inspection here in VA.  So my nephew can't get his car state inspected.
So technically he shouldn't be driving the car.  But as everyone knows, you
need a car to get to your job.

So any one with a car with an electronic parking brake (EPB)be leary.  I'm
supprised at the cars that have the EPB system.  Most recient Hondas, BMW
Lincolns, etc.

Looks to me like a case where the engineers got carried away with the idea
that electronics don't fail, but mechanical parts do!

John



John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

         48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
    75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                      65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
    e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
    In God We Trust
    Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                 oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From patintexas at icloud.com  Tue Aug  9 17:01:01 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 18:01:01 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Parking Brakes
In-Reply-To: <20220809224609.A053FA1508@autox.team.net>
References: <20220809224609.A053FA1508@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <C1F04A1A-1A2A-4EAA-A72A-7E8C37435DC1@icloud.com>

Did you try the resetting procedure just in case that is the problem or see if the connectors are the same & you can test the motor on the other side, even without having it mounted?

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 9, 2022, at 5:46 PM, John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

?
Hey gang,

My nephew came over last weekend to work on his 2019 Honda Civic.  He's
getting an "Electronic Parking Brake" error.

I'd never head of such a thing, and electronic parking brake?

I did a little research on youtube and found out what it is, and sure enough
it IS and electronic parking brake!

So I had some idea what to look for and at when he got here.

He'd had someone replace his rear pads for him.  After that, he started
getting the error.   The fellow that did the job said, he didn't know anything
about the electronic parking brakes.  So my thought was that he'd disconnected the connector and hadn't put it back.

Well we were lucky.  After we jacked it up and had it on stands, we pulled
the drivers side first and look at the connector.  It was connected.  So I figured, maybe he hadn't do the manual reset of the motor.  So I pulled the
motor and tried to manually turn the sprocket.  NO go.  After a little more
diagnostics, listening to the motor on the passengers side and hearing the
motor turn when you set and released the brake, and listening to the driver's
side motor and NOT hearing anything, we concluded it was bad.

So I start looking for a replacement part.  No dealer appears to have any as
they are on National Backorder with no expected delivery date.

Unfortunately, the parking brake system is REQUIRED to hold the car for
State Inspection here in VA.  So my nephew can't get his car state inspected.
So technically he shouldn't be driving the car.  But as everyone knows, you
need a car to get to your job.

So any one with a car with an electronic parking brake (EPB)be leary.  I'm
supprised at the cars that have the EPB system.  Most recient Hondas, BMW
Lincolns, etc.

Looks to me like a case where the engineers got carried away with the idea
that electronics don't fail, but mechanical parts do!

John



John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

         48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
    75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                      65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
    e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
    In God We Trust
    Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                 oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From arvidj999 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 17:13:36 2022
From: arvidj999 at gmail.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 18:13:36 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Parking Brakes
In-Reply-To: <20220809224120.D95D3A1507@autox.team.net>
References: <20220809224120.D95D3A1507@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <CAJhezScXhqiKA828VAhFFsD+hyHHGPxa64UJU6OOu-0CpPnDmw@mail.gmail.com>

I know that on my Golf you need to disable\retract the electronic parking
brake via an app that plugs into the OBD connector before doing any work on
the brakes. Failure to do so and just forcing the pistons back to install
ne pads will damage the parking break mechanism.

I suspect that may be what happened here.

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 5:41 PM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

>
> Hey gang,
>
> My nephew came over last weekend to work on his 2019 Honda Civic.  He's
> getting an "Electronic Parking Brake" error.
>
> I'd never head of such a thing, and electronic parking brake?
>
> I did a little research on youtube and found out what it is, and sure
> enough
> it IS and electronic parking brake!
>
> So I had some idea what to look for and at when he got here.
>
> He'd had someone replace his rear pads for him.  After that, he started
> getting the error.   The fellow that did the job said, he didn't know
> anything
> about the electronic parking brakes.  So my thought was that he'd
> disconnected the connector and hadn't put it back.
>
> Well we were lucky.  After we jacked it up and had it on stands, we pulled
> the drivers side first and look at the connector.  It was
> connected.  So I figured, maybe he hadn't do the manual reset of the
> motor.  So I pulled the
> motor and tried to manually turn the sprocket.  NO go.  After a little more
> diagnostics, listening to the motor on the passengers side and hearing the
> motor turn when you set and released the brake, and listening to the
> driver's
> side motor and NOT hearing anything, we concluded it was bad.
>
> So I start looking for a replacement part.  No dealer appears to have any
> as
> they are on National Backorder with no expected delivery date.
>
> Unfortunately, the parking brake system is REQUIRED to hold the car for
> State Inspection here in VA.  So my nephew can't get his car state
> inspected.
> So technically he shouldn't be driving the car.  But as everyone knows, you
> need a car to get to your job.
>
> So any one with a car with an electronic parking brake (EPB)be leary.  I'm
> supprised at the cars that have the EPB system.  Most recient Hondas, BMW
> Lincolns, etc.
>
> Looks to me like a case where the engineers got carried away with the idea
> that electronics don't fail, but mechanical parts do!
>
> John
>
>
>
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>
>            48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>       75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                         65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
> Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>
>  From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>       e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>       In God We Trust
>       Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>                    oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
>
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/arvidj999 at gmail.com
>
>
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From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 18:12:05 2022
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 19:12:05 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Parking Brakes
In-Reply-To: <CAJhezScXhqiKA828VAhFFsD+hyHHGPxa64UJU6OOu-0CpPnDmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20220809224120.D95D3A1507@autox.team.net>
 <CAJhezScXhqiKA828VAhFFsD+hyHHGPxa64UJU6OOu-0CpPnDmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK73_u65QO9hQSNQj=KcH5n63X1vOXXEpUg2X6Od=NUxEcMj6g@mail.gmail.com>

Exactly this. If it's the sort that you actuate via a switch, you have to
disable it via software--or maybe hardware on some cars--before you retract
the pistons. I'm not sure about Hondas, it might just need to be reset like
the oil change interval.

Scott

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 6:54 PM Arvid Jedlicka <arvidj999 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I know that on my Golf you need to disable\retract the electronic parking
> brake via an app that plugs into the OBD connector before doing any work on
> the brakes. Failure to do so and just forcing the pistons back to install
> ne pads will damage the parking break mechanism.
>
> I suspect that may be what happened here.
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 5:41 PM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey gang,
>>
>> My nephew came over last weekend to work on his 2019 Honda Civic.  He's
>> getting an "Electronic Parking Brake" error.
>>
>> I'd never head of such a thing, and electronic parking brake?
>>
>> I did a little research on youtube and found out what it is, and sure
>> enough
>> it IS and electronic parking brake!
>>
>> So I had some idea what to look for and at when he got here.
>>
>> He'd had someone replace his rear pads for him.  After that, he started
>> getting the error.   The fellow that did the job said, he didn't know
>> anything
>> about the electronic parking brakes.  So my thought was that he'd
>> disconnected the connector and hadn't put it back.
>>
>> Well we were lucky.  After we jacked it up and had it on stands, we pulled
>> the drivers side first and look at the connector.  It was
>> connected.  So I figured, maybe he hadn't do the manual reset of the
>> motor.  So I pulled the
>> motor and tried to manually turn the sprocket.  NO go.  After a little
>> more
>> diagnostics, listening to the motor on the passengers side and hearing the
>> motor turn when you set and released the brake, and listening to the
>> driver's
>> side motor and NOT hearing anything, we concluded it was bad.
>>
>> So I start looking for a replacement part.  No dealer appears to have any
>> as
>> they are on National Backorder with no expected delivery date.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the parking brake system is REQUIRED to hold the car for
>> State Inspection here in VA.  So my nephew can't get his car state
>> inspected.
>> So technically he shouldn't be driving the car.  But as everyone knows,
>> you
>> need a car to get to your job.
>>
>> So any one with a car with an electronic parking brake (EPB)be leary.  I'm
>> supprised at the cars that have the EPB system.  Most recient Hondas, BMW
>> Lincolns, etc.
>>
>> Looks to me like a case where the engineers got carried away with the idea
>> that electronics don't fail, but mechanical parts do!
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
>> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>>
>>            48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>>       75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>>                         65 Rambler Classic
>>
>> Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
>> Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org
>>
>> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
>> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>>
>>  From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>>       e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>>       In God We Trust
>>       Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>>                    oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/arvidj999 at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com
>
>
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From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Wed Aug 10 10:48:26 2022
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 10:48:26 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop computer question
In-Reply-To: <CADkpZwE8S=BcHULGQdHpgSK5aU_k4yBZAbRbqQzqJXjN=YU-5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1UbuauyH8K.7cUOczPr0oi@johns-desktop>
 <CE7C6B1D-87F1-48C4-9053-A773C7B3039F@gmail.com>
 <CADkpZwE8S=BcHULGQdHpgSK5aU_k4yBZAbRbqQzqJXjN=YU-5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP8km86UziXmt_YLOKiOQ7_39F7xavYAqMLHM+h+=E+Tkw@mail.gmail.com>

Don't forget about the FM transmitter option - just connect to the audio
output of your laptop and select a good frequency. No fancy Bluetooth
needed, and the FM transmitter should also have more range than the
Bluetooth, too!

Also, Bluetooth is nowhere close to saturating USB 2.0. Any USB Bluetooth
adapter that claims USB 3.0 compatibility will have USB 2.0 compatibility.

Old laptops running XP should be converted to Linux. XP is a serious
liability at this point. If you're concerned about making the switch, try a
Live version, which boots from a USB drive (or CD). Happy to help with that.

-Peter

On Sat, Aug 6, 2022 at 3:45 AM Al Fuller <alfuller194 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree with the idea of migrating to a modern operating system. I have an
> old laptop for the garage and when it's OS's time is up I will likely put
> either Ubuntu or Chrome OS on it. This one too is basically just an
> internet lookup machine, so even if modern Ubuntu runs slow on the old
> hardware I'll be okay.
>
> ________________
> Best Regards,
> Al Fuller
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 7:58 PM David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 4, 2022, at 11:00, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Well, I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
>> I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports
>> , basically an internet search device only
>>
>>
>>
>> Windows  do was been un supporters for 8 years.  It always had a
>> shittybluetooth stack,
>> So it?s not a surprise you can?t find anything. Use wires, or an
>> operating system less likely to be infested with malware the second it?s
>> connected to the internet.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
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>>
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>
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> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Wed Aug 10 19:00:59 2022
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 18:00:59 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] electronic parking brake Broke?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4525.1660090351.24409.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.4525.1660090351.24409.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <58adf320-958f-91a2-1cfa-f966086c701d@threeboysfarm.com>

Try:

*Q: How do you reset the electric parking brake on a Honda Civic?*

 1. Switch the ignition to the ON position and shift the gear lever in
    PARK. ...
 2. Pull and release the EPB button to activate the electric parking brake.
 3. Pull and hold the EPB button until you hear a mechanical sound, then
    release the button.b

Or maybe:

How do you reset the electronic parking brake on a 2019 Honda Civic?
*Bring the vehicle to a stop with the brake pedal and shift to NEUTRAL.* 
*Turn off the ignition, and push the parking-brake switch down within 2 
seconds*. The automatic activation will be suspended, and will be 
restored when the vehicle is restarted.

<https://www.hondainfocenter.com/2020/CR-V/Feature-Guide/Engine-Chassis-Features/Electric-Parking-Brake-with-Automatic-Brake-Hold/>And 
if you have fancy tools (but if you do you already know this): 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCnm_nl8KsE

Might help. . .

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com


> Hey gang,
>
> My nephew came over last weekend to work on his 2019 Honda Civic.  He's
> getting an "Electronic Parking Brake" error.
>
> I'd never head of such a thing, and electronic parking brake?
>
> I did a little research on youtube and found out what it is, and sure enough
> it IS and electronic parking brake!
>
> So I had some idea what to look for and at when he got here.
>
> He'd had someone replace his rear pads for him.  After that, he started
> getting the error.   The fellow that did the job said, he didn't know anything
> about the electronic parking brakes.  So my thought was that he'd
> disconnected the connector and hadn't put it back.
>
> Well we were lucky.  After we jacked it up and had it on stands, we pulled
> the drivers side first and look at the connector.  It was
> connected.  So I figured, maybe he hadn't do the manual reset of the
> motor.  So I pulled the
> motor and tried to manually turn the sprocket.  NO go.  After a little more
> diagnostics, listening to the motor on the passengers side and hearing the
> motor turn when you set and released the brake, and listening to the driver's
> side motor and NOT hearing anything, we concluded it was bad.
>
> So I start looking for a replacement part.  No dealer appears to have any as
> they are on National Backorder with no expected delivery date.
>
> Unfortunately, the parking brake system is REQUIRED to hold the car for
> State Inspection here in VA.  So my nephew can't get his car state inspected.
> So technically he shouldn't be driving the car.  But as everyone knows, you
> need a car to get to your job.
>
> So any one with a car with an electronic parking brake (EPB)be leary.  I'm
> supprised at the cars that have the EPB system.  Most recient Hondas, BMW
> Lincolns, etc.
>
> Looks to me like a case where the engineers got carried away with the idea
> that electronics don't fail, but mechanical parts do!
>
> John
>
>
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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu Aug 11 08:49:53 2022
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 10:49:53 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electronic parking brake Broke?
In-Reply-To: <58adf320-958f-91a2-1cfa-f966086c701d@threeboysfarm.com>
References: <mailman.4525.1660090351.24409.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <58adf320-958f-91a2-1cfa-f966086c701d@threeboysfarm.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1660229394.24406.shop-talk@autox.team.net>


Thanks to all that commented on the Electronic Parking Brake problem.

I have definately proven that it IS the motor.  The problem is now 
finding the part
as it is on National Back order with no expected delivery date.  I've 
tried all the local
wrecking yards to no avail.  So I'll just have to sit and wait.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From jmitch at snet.net  Thu Aug 11 10:20:47 2022
From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 12:20:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electronic parking brake Broke?
In-Reply-To: <20220811150930.3CC51A0E58@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.4525.1660090351.24409.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <58adf320-958f-91a2-1cfa-f966086c701d@threeboysfarm.com>
 <20220811150930.3CC51A0E58@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <040b150e-f7cd-17ae-6de3-57bd6af72657@snet.net>

Just wondering,? is a parking brake still an emergency brake?

On 8/11/2022 10:49 AM, John T. Blair wrote:
>
> Thanks to all that commented on the Electronic Parking Brake problem.
>
> I have definately proven that it IS the motor.? The problem is now 
> finding the part
> as it is on National Back order with no expected delivery date. I've 
> tried all the local
> wrecking yards to no avail.? So I'll just have to sit and wait.
>
> John
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link> 
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>
>
> John T. Blair? WA4OHZ???? email: jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va Phone:? (757) 495-8229
>
> ????????? 48 TR1800??? 48 #4 Midget??? 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
> ???? 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire??? 71 Saab Sonett III
> 65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/
> Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>
> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
> ???? e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
> ???? In God We Trust
> ???? Liberty - the? power? of choosing,? thinking,? and? acting? for
> oneself; freedom? from? control? or restriction
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jmitch at snet.net
>
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From dave1massey at cs.com  Thu Aug 11 10:55:33 2022
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 16:55:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] electronic parking brake Broke?
In-Reply-To: <20220811150107.33431A14BB@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.4525.1660090351.24409.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <58adf320-958f-91a2-1cfa-f966086c701d@threeboysfarm.com>
 <20220811150107.33431A14BB@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <28215281.502199.1660236933899@mail.yahoo.com>

 If the other side is working maybe that will be sufficient for the inspection.
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net>
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Sent: Thu, Aug 11, 2022 9:49 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electronic parking brake Broke?


Thanks to all that commented on the Electronic Parking Brakeproblem.

I have definately proven that it IS the motor.? The problem is nowfinding the part 
as it is on National Back order with no expected delivery date.?I've tried all the local
wrecking yards to no avail.? So I'll just have to sit andwait.

John

|  | Virus-free. www.avast.com  |

 


John T. Blair? WA4OHZ???? email:?jblair1948 at cox.netVa. Beach,Va?????????????????Phone:? (757) 495-8229
????????? 48TR1800??? 48 #4 Midget??? 65 Morgan 4/4Series V (B1106)???? 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)???77 Spitfire??? 71 Saab Sonett III??????????????????????65 Rambler Classic
Morgan:???http://autox.team.net/morgan/Bricklin:????http://www.bricklin.org
If you can readthis????????????- Thank a teacher!If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:???? e pluribus Unum, "from many,one."???? In God We Trust???? Liberty - the? power? of?choosing,? thinking,? and? acting? for? ?????????????????oneself; freedom? from? control? or?restriction? 

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation? $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com

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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu Aug 11 11:14:35 2022
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 13:14:35 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electronic parking brake Broke?
In-Reply-To: <040b150e-f7cd-17ae-6de3-57bd6af72657@snet.net>
References: <mailman.4525.1660090351.24409.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <58adf320-958f-91a2-1cfa-f966086c701d@threeboysfarm.com>
 <20220811150930.3CC51A0E58@autox.team.net>
 <040b150e-f7cd-17ae-6de3-57bd6af72657@snet.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1660238074.24406.shop-talk@autox.team.net>

At 12:20 PM 8/11/2022, John Mitchell wrote:

 >Just wondering,?  is a parking brake still an emergency brake?

John,

Good question.  Not sure how to answer that, especally with this electronic
emergency brake system.  It's showing up as 3 errors on the dash:

1. electronic emergency brake problem
2. brake system problem
3. and a "brake" light light.

Now in the car, there is a "park" brake which 
activates the emergency brake, ie.
both rear calipers, and a brake hold.  Don't know 
the difference.  My guess is that
the hold is for stopping on an incline and 
automatically turns off at a certain rpm.
But I didn't read the owners manual about this.

John




John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From lspector at gmail.com  Thu Aug 11 11:18:30 2022
From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 13:18:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electronic parking brake Broke?
In-Reply-To: <20220811150830.9B3BEA0FD8@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.4525.1660090351.24409.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <58adf320-958f-91a2-1cfa-f966086c701d@threeboysfarm.com>
 <20220811150830.9B3BEA0FD8@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <CAFNB6W=YJst0f1ZGOSVkW7MuNihfZKxR99krZNByia5RMqFQXQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've had good luck using car-part.com to track down various recycled parts
over the years. You can widen the junkyard search without leaving your
couch!

-Larry

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:08 AM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

>
> Thanks to all that commented on the Electronic Parking Brake problem.
>
> I have definately proven that it IS the motor.  The problem is now finding
> the part
> as it is on National Back order with no expected delivery date.  I've
> tried all the local
> wrecking yards to no avail.  So I'll just have to sit and wait.
>
> John
>
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From GPD4 at juno.com  Thu Aug 11 13:46:34 2022
From: GPD4 at juno.com (George P. Dausch IV)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 15:46:34 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electronic parking brake Broke?
In-Reply-To: <20220811192840.61BEAA105D@autox.team.net>
References: <20220811192840.61BEAA105D@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <795BC781-AB3F-4B56-AB1A-EE96671F63BC@juno.com>

Maybe also unwire the bad one and have only one wheel brake, which may work to pass inspection. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2022, at 3:29 PM, John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> ? At 12:20 PM 8/11/2022, John Mitchell wrote:
> 
> >Just wondering,?  is a parking brake still an emergency brake?
> 
> John,
> 
> Good question.  Not sure how to answer that, especally with this electronic 
> emergency brake system.  It's showing up as 3 errors on the dash:
> 
> 1. electronic emergency brake problem
> 2. brake system problem
> 3. and a "brake" light light.
> 
> Now in the car, there is a "park" brake which activates the emergency brake, ie.
> both rear calipers, and a brake hold.  Don't know the difference.  My guess is that
> the hold is for stopping on an incline and automatically turns off at a certain rpm.
> But I didn't read the owners manual about this.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
> 
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
> 
> Morgan:    http://autox.team.net/morgan/
> Bricklin:     http://www.bricklin.org
> 
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
> 
> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>      In God We Trust
>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gpd4 at juno.com
> 
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From jniolon at att.net  Sun Aug 14 08:47:26 2022
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 09:47:26 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: shop computer question
References: <1Ubulq2r8g.2DLj5wmwuEy.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1Ubulq2r8g.2DLj5wmwuEy@johns-desktop>

well the final (so far) solution is hard wired cable from headphone jack to the 
audio input on the receiver... bought a blue tooth card for the laptop
but could never find a driver that would work (could be operator error).   for 
now it will have to do.
 
john

 

----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/4/2022 9:00:55 AM
Subject: shop computer question



Well, 
I'm back with another computer question and it really is in my shop
I have a Dell Latitude laptop running windows XP with only usb 2.0 ports , basically an internet search device only
 
I use an old cell phone and Spotify for music download bluetoothed to an Esinkin Bluetooth receiver connected to my old
Pioneer stereo system... But wireless internet inside the shop is spotty and Spotify doesn't 
always work well
 
Sooo 
I'm thinking ? download Spotify to my laptop that has good internet connectivity (thanks Peter Murrey) and Bluetooth to
the Esinkin unit...   but the old Dell doesn't 
have Bluetooth.
 
I'm looking for an adapter to install so I can attach my laptop wirelessly to an Esinkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver connected to my stereo in the shop
 
Most I find aren't 
compatibly with XP or must have usb 3.0 ? and none of the vendors I ask will 
reply...
 
anyone have a suggestion >>??
 
thanks
john
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Sun Aug 14 09:40:02 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 11:40:02 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Jet Table Saw
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CMrC1yRcJDib2qyXO2Bh79UC+9ugundF36fQfR=tocMAA@mail.gmail.com>

Got a Jet table saw from a friend yesterday.  It needs a good bit of
cleaning up, and a few parts (fence rails, etc.)  Before I get too
deep into it, I wanted to see what parts are available.

It's a Jet JPS-10 from 1989.  Apparently Jet still make a JPS-10, but
it looks much different.  Trying to find parts on their site or
ereplacementparts.com is proving frustrating.

There is a stock number on the saw (706429) but that doesn't seem to
mnarrow down the field much.

Anyone know of a source for Jet parts that can be navigated by
multiple models with the same number?

Thanks!

P.S. This would be a replacement for a Craftsman saw from 1955 which
works great but uses 8" blades which are rare and expensive.  Been
using circular saw blades with a bushing for 30 years, but that's
getting old, as am I.

From eric at megageek.com  Sun Aug 14 13:42:54 2022
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:42:54 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake motor issue
Message-ID: <OF4C4DCF08.179F8B2D-ON8525889E.006C1762-8525889E.006C4CAB@mail.megageek.com>

Sorry this is late, but I keep getting rejected by the list server.

For whoever had the issue with the brake motor, check your local laws.  In 
NJ, as long as you go through inspection every 30 days (and fail) you are 
still legal.

I would just keep going and tell them the truth, and that is the only 
problem.

In NJ, you can ONLY fail for emissions issues now.

Just something you think about.

Moose
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From tjcora at icloud.com  Mon Aug 15 05:09:43 2022
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Tom Coradeschi)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:09:43 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake motor issue
In-Reply-To: <OF4C4DCF08.179F8B2D-ON8525889E.006C1762-8525889E.006C4CAB@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF4C4DCF08.179F8B2D-ON8525889E.006C1762-8525889E.006C4CAB@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <3E33500B-585A-490E-AC58-57A93E8C33E4@icloud.com>

Good point. I am not sure if it is even checked any longer in NJ. All that I see done is to plug in to the OBD2 port, and then slap on a new sticker. 

Tom Coradeschi
Tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 14, 2022, at 4:58 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> 
> ?Sorry this is late, but I keep getting rejected by the list server. 
> 
> For whoever had the issue with the brake motor, check your local laws.  In NJ, as long as you go through inspection every 30 days (and fail) you are still legal. 
> 
> I would just keep going and tell them the truth, and that is the only problem. 
> 
> In NJ, you can ONLY fail for emissions issues now. 
> 
> Just something you think about. 
> 
> Moose_______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 
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From tjcora at icloud.com  Mon Aug 15 17:18:31 2022
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Tom Coradeschi)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 19:18:31 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Jet Table Saw
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CMrC1yRcJDib2qyXO2Bh79UC+9ugundF36fQfR=tocMAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CMrC1yRcJDib2qyXO2Bh79UC+9ugundF36fQfR=tocMAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1BC1424C-BC96-49C1-8DE5-FB6788FAEEDE@icloud.com>

Jet makes nice stuff, but support is a bit of a crapshoot. I have a JWTS-10, which is probably the same basic saw, just 10 years or so newer. I grab the part numbers for the few I have needed, and let google do the searching. 

Tom Coradeschi
Tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 14, 2022, at 12:30 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Got a Jet table saw from a friend yesterday.  It needs a good bit of
> cleaning up, and a few parts (fence rails, etc.)  Before I get too
> deep into it, I wanted to see what parts are available.
> 
> It's a Jet JPS-10 from 1989.  Apparently Jet still make a JPS-10, but
> it looks much different.  Trying to find parts on their site or
> ereplacementparts.com is proving frustrating.
> 
> There is a stock number on the saw (706429) but that doesn't seem to
> mnarrow down the field much.
> 
> Anyone know of a source for Jet parts that can be navigated by
> multiple models with the same number?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> P.S. This would be a replacement for a Craftsman saw from 1955 which
> works great but uses 8" blades which are rare and expensive.  Been
> using circular saw blades with a bushing for 30 years, but that's
> getting old, as am I.
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 

From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Wed Aug 17 09:41:35 2022
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 15:41:35 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question
In-Reply-To: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM5PR14MB1274DE28F066AF9E2B270468B4619@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DM5PR14MB1274A5C89DA468546D5DA529B46A9@DM5PR14MB1274.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

ah yes, 'REFRIDERATOR".....SIGH. So happy I can spell.

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

For now things seemed to have leveled out at 0 and 38 degrees. While not what the settings are (-4 and 34), I think I am going to live with this for now.

Thanks again
tim
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2022 9:53 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] refriderator question

approx 15 year old GE "profile series". I've replaced the fan motor three times over the years.

Now it seems to not want to get cold enough. It has been hovering around 40 degrees for a few weeks now and the freezer at zero. Both are 4-6 degrees warmer than where they are set.

Is this fridge getting ready to take a shit on me? Or is it maybe just in need of a freon charge?

thanks all
tim


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From ronald.olds at mchsi.com  Sun Aug 28 08:52:18 2022
From: ronald.olds at mchsi.com (ronald.olds at mchsi.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 10:52:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Double Check spark Pugs
Message-ID: <1225355079.60168454.1661698338462.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>

Hello Everyone,

Has anyone heard of Double Check brand spark plugs?  i came across a few # 24s in and old box.  These are new and the packing is unopened.

Ronald Olds

From tjcora at icloud.com  Sun Aug 28 10:28:37 2022
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Tom Coradeschi)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 12:28:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Double Check spark Pugs
In-Reply-To: <1225355079.60168454.1661698338462.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>
References: <1225355079.60168454.1661698338462.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <25A2B6EA-7D24-418A-AC67-1AED3677D653@icloud.com>

The sparse set of responses from a web search makes it seem like they are antiques, possibly pre WWII vintage. 

Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 28, 2022, at 11:11 AM, ronald.olds at mchsi.com wrote:
> 
> ?Hello Everyone,
> 
> Has anyone heard of Double Check brand spark plugs?  i came across a few # 24s in and old box.  These are new and the packing is unopened.
> 
> Ronald Olds
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 

From patintexas at icloud.com  Sun Aug 28 13:16:33 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Double Check spark Pugs
In-Reply-To: <1225355079.60168454.1661698338462.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>
References: <1225355079.60168454.1661698338462.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <E268A2CA-38AE-4777-9F91-2DB246618F0D@icloud.com>

Doing a trademark search shows that the last time it was renewed was on 1976. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 28, 2022, at 10:10 AM, ronald.olds at mchsi.com wrote:

?Hello Everyone,

Has anyone heard of Double Check brand spark plugs?  i came across a few # 24s in and old box.  These are new and the packing is unopened.

Ronald Olds
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From jniolon at att.net  Sun Aug 28 16:54:51 2022
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>

shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
 
time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good 
service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off road
occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 
20' car hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)
 
I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires   ? so I'm 
looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
 
thanks
john
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From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org  Sun Aug 28 19:21:42 2022
From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (Ian McFetridge)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 21:21:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires
In-Reply-To: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>

I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and they
are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I?ve used Michelins on trucks
since I worked in the tire dept at Sam?s in college.  They always took the
least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or
to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true when I
bought the last set.  YMMV :)

Best
Ian

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>
> time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good
> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off
> road
> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or twice
> a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first
> choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride.....
> My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear
> well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>
> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [image: Grinning
> Face with Smiling Eyes] ? so I'm looking for your thoughts on Michelin or
> others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>
>
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From shannahquilts at gmail.com  Sun Aug 28 22:19:12 2022
From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 21:19:12 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires
In-Reply-To: <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will
need tires at some point, and that's good to know.

That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years
can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
on it.)

Thanks,
Shannah

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org>
wrote:

> I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and they
> are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I?ve used Michelins on trucks
> since I worked in the tire dept at Sam?s in college.  They always took the
> least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or
> to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true when I
> bought the last set.  YMMV :)
>
> Best
> Ian
>
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>
>> shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>
>> time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good
>> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off
>> road
>> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or
>> twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first
>> choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride.....
>> My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear
>> well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>>
>> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [image:
>> Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes] ? so I'm looking for your thoughts on
>> Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>
>> thanks
>> john
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>
>
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From bspidell at comcast.net  Sun Aug 28 23:48:24 2022
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 22:48:24 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires
In-Reply-To: <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>

re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."

Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people 
who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of 
mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and 
mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage 
not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you 
can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, 
going beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.

BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year 
'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic 
failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to 
roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old 
truck that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly 
occupants. A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect, 
improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY 
back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some Explorers.

My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time 
for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're 
showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at 
least a couple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least 
once a month).



On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
> Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.? I will
> need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>
> That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
> has had the same tires since 2019.? How many years
> can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
> putt around town?? (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
> on it.)
>
> Thanks,
> Shannah
>
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge 
> <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org> wrote:
>
>     I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020
>     and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.? I?ve used
>     Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam?s in
>     college.? They always took the least amount of weights to balance
>     and had the least returns for issues or to rebalance.? The manager
>     at Costco said that is all still true when I bought the last set.?
>     YMMV :)
>
>     Best
>     Ian
>
>     On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>
>         shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>         time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years
>         with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95%
>         highway or town ...no off road
>         occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler
>         (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)? Looking
>         at reviews on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>         275/55-20. The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough
>         ride..... My current Michelin Defenders? (bought in Jan 2016
>         ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>         I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires
>         Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes?? so I'm looking for your
>         thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>         thanks
>         john
>         _______________________________________________
>
>         Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>         Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>         Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>         http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>         Unsubscribe/Manage:
>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>     http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>     Unsubscribe/Manage:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 04:59:31 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 06:59:31 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires
In-Reply-To: <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>

I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles on
them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.

I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or
time interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you have to
budget for.

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:

> re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."
>
> Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people
> who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of
> mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and
> mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage
> not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you can
> usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going
> beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.
>
> BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year
> 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic
> failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll
> over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck
> that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A
> couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect, improperly
> inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal
> rollover accidents with some Explorers.
>
> My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time for
> new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing
> 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a
> couple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a
> month).
>
>
>
> On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
>
> Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will
> need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>
> That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
> has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years
> can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
> putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
> on it.)
>
> Thanks,
> Shannah
>
> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and
>> they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I?ve used Michelins on
>> trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam?s in college.  They always
>> took the least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for
>> issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true
>> when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)
>>
>> Best
>> Ian
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>>
>>> time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good
>>> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off
>>> road
>>> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or
>>> twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first
>>> choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>>> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride.....
>>> My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear
>>> well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>>>
>>> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [image:
>>> Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes] ? so I'm looking for your thoughts on
>>> Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> john
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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From ronald.olds at mchsi.com  Mon Aug 29 07:12:50 2022
From: ronald.olds at mchsi.com (ronald.olds at mchsi.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 09:12:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Double Check spark Pugs
In-Reply-To: <1225355079.60168454.1661698338462.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>
References: <758386450.62413288.1661778653524.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <1549623239.62418897.1661778770923.JavaMail.zimbra@mchsi.com>

Thanks for the information.  I'm glad some of you had more success finding information. I couldn't find anything in my searches.

The Pep Boys reference makes sense as these came from the Philadelphia area. I don't believe these spark plugs are that old as the packaging is similar to new style cardboard and cellophane type. I have attached a couple of pictures.

Ronald Olds

----- Original Message -----
From: ronald olds &amp;amp;amp;lt;ronald.olds at mchsi.com&amp;amp;amp;gt;
To: shop-talk &amp;amp;amp;lt;shop-talk at autox.team.net&amp;amp;amp;gt;
Sent: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 10:52:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Double Check spark Pugs

Hello Everyone,

Has anyone heard of Double Check brand spark plugs?  i came across a few # 24s in and old box.  These are new and the packing is unopened.

Ronald Olds
_______________________________________________

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From bspidell at comcast.net  Mon Aug 29 07:25:52 2022
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 06:25:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
 <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0bfe5ce3-9a07-5ba4-c2b1-7cc35565ad23@comcast.net>

You'll get no argument from me. I just find it a bit disingenuous that 
some say 'absolutely only exactly six years' when there is so much 
difference between brands, type of tire, compound, usage, etc. Some 
brands--many are now made in you-know-where--I wouldn't use for six 
days. Sticky, warm weather-only performance tires lose grip over time, 
but the hard rubber compound on big bias-ply truck tires can go for a 
while (don't get me started on re-caps; I've seen too many in the middle 
of the road). There was another issue a few years ago, where I think 
Goodyear trailer tires were being used on large, heavy RVs. The outcome 
was predictable.

Also, OP only said 'had the same tires since 2019;' were they installed 
new three years ago, or did OP just buy the vehicle three years ago? 
There is (should be) a DOT date code on the tires (if there isn't, chuck 
them NOW). The tires could have sat in a hot warehouse for a couple 
years, and that has to be considered. My goto is Michelin, but I've got 
sets of other brands on a couple vehicles that I don't hate.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe95O0cze_5curJnnU0hi2ck6SdvdojfgqLT7SaN3OaiNACn8-PPx_hoCyEoQAvD_BwE&techid=11&ef_id=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oe95O0cze_5curJnnU0hi2ck6SdvdojfgqLT7SaN3OaiNACn8-PPx_hoCyEoQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820920605!e!!g!!how%20to%20read%20tire%20dates&gclsrc=aw.ds




On 8/29/2022 3:59 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles 
> on them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.
>
> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage 
> or time interval, whichever comes first. It's just something you have 
> to budget for.
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>     re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."
>
>     Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often
>     people who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit,
>     regardless of mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to
>     extreme weather and mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the
>     tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes and
>     are only used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years
>     wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is
>     pushing your luck.
>
>     BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the
>     6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a
>     catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can
>     cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+
>     liability charge for an old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and
>     the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford
>     got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone
>     tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover
>     accidents with some Explorers.
>
>     My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's
>     time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and,
>     unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they
>     should be good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire
>     pressures regularly (at least once a month).
>
>
>
>     On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
>>     Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.? I will
>>     need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>>
>>     That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
>>     has had the same tires since 2019.? How many years
>>     can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
>>     putt around town?? (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
>>     on it.)
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     Shannah
>>
>>     On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge
>>     <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org> wrote:
>>
>>         I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall
>>         2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.? I?ve
>>         used Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at
>>         Sam?s in college.? They always took the least amount of
>>         weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or to
>>         rebalance.? The manager at Costco said that is all still true
>>         when I bought the last set. YMMV :)
>>
>>         Best
>>         Ian
>>
>>         On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
>>         wrote:
>>
>>             shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>             time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20
>>             years with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500
>>             with 95% highway or town ...no off road
>>             occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car
>>             hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing
>>             hitch...)? Looking at reviews on my first choice Michelin
>>             Defender LTX/MS
>>             275/55-20.?? The reviews talk a lot about road noise and
>>             rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders? (bought in
>>             Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so
>>             far)
>>             I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires
>>             Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes?? so I'm looking for your
>>             thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>             thanks
>>             john
>>             _______________________________________________
>>
>>             Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>             Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>             Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>>             Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>             http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>             Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>             http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>
>>         Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>         Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>         Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>>         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>         http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>         Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>
>>     Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>     Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>     Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>     Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>     Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>     http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>     Unsubscribe/Manage:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
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From gene at garrison-grafixx.com  Mon Aug 29 09:54:52 2022
From: gene at garrison-grafixx.com (Gene Garrison)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 08:54:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
 <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>

I'm glad you brought that up.? I've always wondered about changing oil.

So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".? Right?

Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?? I 
know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going to 
cause it to degrade, are they?

- GeneG

On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles 
> on them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.
>
> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage 
> or time interval, whichever comes first. It's just something you have 
> to budget for.
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>     re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."
>
>     Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often
>     people who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit,
>     regardless of mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to
>     extreme weather and mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the
>     tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes and
>     are only used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years
>     wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is
>     pushing your luck.
>
>     BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the
>     6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a
>     catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can
>     cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+
>     liability charge for an old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and
>     the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford
>     got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone
>     tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover
>     accidents with some Explorers.
>
>     My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's
>     time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and,
>     unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they
>     should be good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire
>     pressures regularly (at least once a month).
>
>
>
>     On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
>>     Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.? I will
>>     need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>>
>>     That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
>>     has had the same tires since 2019.? How many years
>>     can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
>>     putt around town?? (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
>>     on it.)
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     Shannah
>>
>>     On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge
>>     <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org> wrote:
>>
>>         I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall
>>         2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.? I?ve
>>         used Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at
>>         Sam?s in college.? They always took the least amount of
>>         weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or to
>>         rebalance.? The manager at Costco said that is all still true
>>         when I bought the last set. YMMV :)
>>
>>         Best
>>         Ian
>>
>>         On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
>>         wrote:
>>
>>             shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>             time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20
>>             years with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500
>>             with 95% highway or town ...no off road
>>             occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car
>>             hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing
>>             hitch...)? Looking at reviews on my first choice Michelin
>>             Defender LTX/MS
>>             275/55-20.?? The reviews talk a lot about road noise and
>>             rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders? (bought in
>>             Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so
>>             far)
>>             I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires
>>             Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes?? so I'm looking for your
>>             thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>             thanks
>>             john
>>             _______________________________________________
>>
>>             Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>             Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>             Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>>             Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>             http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>             Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>             http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>
>>         Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>         Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>         Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>>         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>         http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>         Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>
>>     Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>     Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>     Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>     Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>     Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>     http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>     Unsubscribe/Manage:
>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gene at garrison-grafixx.com
>
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From eric at megageek.com  Mon Aug 29 11:35:50 2022
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 13:35:50 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
 <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
Message-ID: <OF12729B94.331143AB-ON852588AD.00607854-852588AD.0060AA36@mail.megageek.com>

Gene asks...
>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed? 

Gene, because in an engine the oil is exposed to oxygen and other airborne 
contaminates.
In the (unopened) bottle, the oil isn't exposed to air. 

That is my understanding.

Moose

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From ronnie.day at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 13:06:35 2022
From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 14:06:35 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
 <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
Message-ID: <CAMHhs6fGKJu4xA=EA4fHkcwq7=iRWkmYnyHvjVqsnM6+-5pciA@mail.gmail.com>

I just replaced a set of Yokohomas on a '98 F-150  that had 2013 date
codes. They had plenty of tread but were beginning to deteriorate badly.
Since this is our third vehicle/Home Depot truck that sits most of the time
(maybe 1K miles/year) I bought the cheapest light truck tire (Corsa
brand-265/70-16s) I could get from Discount Tire. Neither Sams or Costco
had anything comparably priced. I put the same tires on our '02 Suburban
several months ago. It's used more than the F-150, maybe 4k-5k/year. Our
daily is a '15 Honda Odyssey, which I put upper range Yokohamas on.

Over the years we've lived on our 10 acres in the country critters chewing
on wires and hoses have been a problem. Driving a vehicle
regularly discourages them from moving in, as does scattering cotton balls
soaked in peppermint oil around the interior and under the hood. That said,
I think any road vehicle needs to be driven every couple of weeks,
preferably at moderate steady highway speeds for 15 to 30 minutes. This
brings all the fluids up to stable operating temps and burns off most of
the contaminants in the oil and trans fluids. Short, stop and go city trips
shorten component life considerably.

I change engine oil and filter and have the tires rotated every 5K, and
check the tires at least every couple of months and/or when temps change
considerably. Tire pressure varies to the tune of 2 PSI/10 degrees change
in air temp.

FWIW,
RD

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 12:42 PM Gene Garrison <gene at garrison-grafixx.com>
wrote:

> I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered about changing oil.
>
> So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".  Right?
>
> Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?  I
> know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going to
> cause it to degrade, are they?
>
> - GeneG
> On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
>
> I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles on
> them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.
>
> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or
> time interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you have to
> budget for.
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."
>>
>> Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people
>> who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of
>> mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and
>> mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage
>> not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you can
>> usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going
>> beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.
>>
>> BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year
>> 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic
>> failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll
>> over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck
>> that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A
>> couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect, improperly
>> inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal
>> rollover accidents with some Explorers.
>>
>> My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time for
>> new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing
>> 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a
>> couple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a
>> month).
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
>>
>> Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will
>> need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>>
>> That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
>> has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years
>> can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
>> putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
>> on it.)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shannah
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and
>>> they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I?ve used Michelins on
>>> trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam?s in college.  They always
>>> took the least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for
>>> issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true
>>> when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>>>
>>>> time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good
>>>> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off
>>>> road
>>>> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or
>>>> twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first
>>>> choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>>>> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough
>>>> ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth
>>>> and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>>>>
>>>> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [image:
>>>> Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes] ? so I'm looking for your thoughts on
>>>> Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> john
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gene at garrison-grafixx.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
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>
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From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 29 13:43:40 2022
From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 19:43:40 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
 <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR07MB718365C3DF3FE7DCD14D7F029A769@MN2PR07MB7183.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Side note: Recently bought a Ford Cobra 8.8 diff that was a NOS piece from a closed dealership. Date tag was 1997. I opened it up and the diff oil had turned to white paste, it smelled awful but had a definite gear oil aroma. These had the Trak-Lok "limited slip" so it's possible the modifier additive had separated, but I checked with a few experts and all agreed it was safe to run after cleaning it out.

So after 25 years, I can confirm that oil does "go bad".


________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Gene Garrison <gene at garrison-grafixx.com>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 11:54 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question


I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered about changing oil.

So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".  Right?

Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?  I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going to cause it to degrade, are they?

- GeneG

On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles on them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.

I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or time interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you have to budget for.

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net<mailto:bspidell at comcast.net>> wrote:
re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."

Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.

BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some Explorers.

My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a month).



On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will
need tires at some point, and that's good to know.

That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years
can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
on it.)

Thanks,
Shannah

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org<mailto:shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org>> wrote:
I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I?ve used Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam?s in college.  They always took the least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)

Best
Ian

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net<mailto:jniolon at att.net>> wrote:
shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop

time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off road
occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)

I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes]  ? so I'm looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.

thanks
john
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net<mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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_______________________________________________

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From ejrussell61 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 14:52:21 2022
From: ejrussell61 at gmail.com (Eric Russell)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 16:52:21 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <OF12729B94.331143AB-ON852588AD.00607854-852588AD.0060AA36@mail.megageek.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
 <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
 <OF12729B94.331143AB-ON852588AD.00607854-852588AD.0060AA36@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7dBXAxu-Dre1yJy3Fd+F9+K1xbxsCeoSpXVS4rF5vtyJg4iQ@mail.gmail.com>

More than just oxygen, the oil is also exposed to the byproducts of
combustion - CO, CO2, H2O and more. These byproducts can combine to form
acidic contaminants. Fresh oil has additives to combat this but they can't
do it forever.

EjR

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 4:41 PM <eric at megageek.com> wrote:

> Gene asks...
> >Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?
>
> Gene, because in an engine the oil is exposed to oxygen and other airborne
> contaminates.
> In the (unopened) bottle, the oil isn't exposed to air.
>
> That is my understanding.
>
> Moose
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ejrussell61 at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Aug 29 14:56:33 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 15:56:33 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <OF12729B94.331143AB-ON852588AD.00607854-852588AD.0060AA36@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF12729B94.331143AB-ON852588AD.00607854-852588AD.0060AA36@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <9C9CEEFE-3AB6-4EB6-8D13-78E1EBCDD0BF@icloud.com>

I Don lt know I?d it make a difference but it is also in contact with metals that could possibly leach onto the oil. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 29, 2022, at 3:54 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote:

?Gene asks... 
>Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?  

Gene, because in an engine the oil is exposed to oxygen and other airborne contaminates. 
In the (unopened) bottle, the oil isn't exposed to air.   

That is my understanding. 

Moose 

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From tjcora at icloud.com  Mon Aug 29 16:18:41 2022
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Tom Coradeschi)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 18:18:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
References: <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
Message-ID: <AE9B3997-6ECF-43EC-81E2-1D2F6E5C3689@icloud.com>

The contaminants will cause the oil to degrade, hence the need to change it on either time or mileage, per the OEM spec (whichever comes first).

Tom Coradeschi
Tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 29, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Gene Garrison <gene at garrison-grafixx.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered about changing oil.
> 
> So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".  Right?
> 
> Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?  I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going to cause it to degrade, are they?
> 
> - GeneG
> 
> On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
>> I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles on them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.  
>> 
>> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or time interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you have to budget for.
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."
>>> 
>>> Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.
>>> 
>>> BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover accidents with some Explorers.
>>> 
>>> My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a month).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
>>>> Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will
>>>> need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>>>> 
>>>> That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
>>>> has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years
>>>> can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
>>>> putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
>>>> on it.)
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Shannah
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org> wrote:
>>>>> I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I?ve used Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam?s in college.  They always took the least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best 
>>>>> Ian
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>> shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off road
>>>>>> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>>>>>> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires   ? so I'm looking for your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>> john
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>> 
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
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>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
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>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From bspidell at comcast.net  Mon Aug 29 20:59:18 2022
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 19:59:18 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR07MB718365C3DF3FE7DCD14D7F029A769@MN2PR07MB7183.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
 <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
 <MN2PR07MB718365C3DF3FE7DCD14D7F029A769@MN2PR07MB7183.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <3a7345c3-0c73-3346-310c-75694c3814cb@comcast.net>

I inherited a '96 Ranger and 2000 Lincoln LS; the Ranger gets farm 
duties and the Lincoln is the designated grocery-getter. The Great State 
of California is kind enough to send me a reminder every two years to 
change their oil, top them up with fresh gas--sometimes I throw a bottle 
of Techron in the tank--clean/replace air filters and get them smogged. 
Oh, and send the state a check for their helpfulness.

Costco now sells 5W-30 full synthetic in 5qt. containers cheaper than 
they used to sell mineral oils, and they ship for free! The Ranger, 
Lincoln, Honda ATV, zero-turn mower, edger, rototiller and squirrel 
gasser all get the syn (eventually, when some old 10W-30 gets used up). 
The old Ford tractors (2) get the cheapest 10W-40 I can find with free 
shipping and the Healeys get Valvoline 20W-50 Racing Oil loaded with 
ZDDP (stocking up before the State bans it; I got about a 15-year supply 
plus filters). The Mustang GT/Bullitt gets 'free oil changes for life' 
from the dealer--good thing, the Coyote takes 10qts!--and I have a 
gallon or two of Ford's ubiquitous 5W-20? Semi-Syn for top-ups.? My 
'collection' sits on the shelf for a while; I have to remember to shake 
the bottles before using as some of the additives will settle to the bottom.

The biggest PITA? Properly disposing of the used oil.


On 8/29/2022 12:43 PM, PJ McGarvey wrote:
> Side note: Recently bought a Ford Cobra 8.8 diff that was a NOS piece 
> from a closed dealership. Date tag was 1997. I opened it up and the 
> diff oil had turned to white paste, it smelled awful but had a 
> definite gear oil aroma. These had the Trak-Lok "limited slip" so it's 
> possible the modifier additive had separated, but I checked with a few 
> experts and all agreed it was safe to run after cleaning it out.
>
> So after 25 years, I can confirm that oil does "go bad".
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Gene 
> Garrison <gene at garrison-grafixx.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 29, 2022 11:54 AM
> *To:* shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
>
> I'm glad you brought that up.? I've always wondered about changing oil.
>
> So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad". Right?
>
> Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?? 
> I know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going 
> to cause it to degrade, are they?
>
> - GeneG
>
> On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
>> I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles 
>> on them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.
>>
>> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage 
>> or time interval, whichever comes first.? It's just something you 
>> have to budget for.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net 
>> <mailto:bspidell at comcast.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."
>>
>>     Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often
>>     people who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit,
>>     regardless of mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to
>>     extreme weather and mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the
>>     tires are kept in a garage not subject to temperature extremes
>>     and are only used 'around town' you can usually go more, 7 or 8
>>     years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going beyond 10 years
>>     is pushing your luck.
>>
>>     BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the
>>     6-year 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a
>>     catastrophic failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can
>>     cause the vehicle to roll over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+
>>     liability charge for an old truck that had a blowout, rolled, and
>>     the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A couple decades ago Ford
>>     got slammed when some incorrect, improperly inflated Firestone
>>     tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal rollover
>>     accidents with some Explorers.
>>
>>     My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's
>>     time for new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and,
>>     unless they're showing 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they
>>     should be good for at least a couple more years. Check your tire
>>     pressures regularly (at least once a month).
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
>>>     Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.? I will
>>>     need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>>>
>>>     That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
>>>     has had the same tires since 2019.? How many years
>>>     can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
>>>     putt around town?? (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
>>>     on it.)
>>>
>>>     Thanks,
>>>     Shannah
>>>
>>>     On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge
>>>     <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org <mailto:shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org>>
>>>     wrote:
>>>
>>>         I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall
>>>         2020 and they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.? I?ve
>>>         used Michelins on trucks since I worked in the tire dept at
>>>         Sam?s in college.? They always took the least amount of
>>>         weights to balance and had the least returns for issues or
>>>         to rebalance.? The manager at Costco said that is all still
>>>         true when I bought the last set.? YMMV :)
>>>
>>>         Best
>>>         Ian
>>>
>>>         On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net
>>>         <mailto:jniolon at att.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>>             time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20
>>>             years with good service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500
>>>             with 95% highway or town ...no off road
>>>             occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car
>>>             hauler (once or twice a year with load equalizing
>>>             hitch...)? Looking at reviews on my first choice
>>>             Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>>>             275/55-20. The reviews talk a lot about road noise and
>>>             rough ride..... My current Michelin Defenders? (bought
>>>             in Jan 2016 ride smooth and wear well.. 76K miles on
>>>             them so far)
>>>             I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires
>>>             Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes?? so I'm looking for
>>>             your thoughts on Michelin or others afa mileage, ride,
>>>             noise etc.
>>>             thanks
>>>             john
>>>
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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 21:02:18 2022
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 20:02:18 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <AE9B3997-6ECF-43EC-81E2-1D2F6E5C3689@icloud.com>
References: <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
 <AE9B3997-6ECF-43EC-81E2-1D2F6E5C3689@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgZ6c_JVT39OqZW1dBec_iNnrYW-0Vn6j0pN_+ySv4z+FA@mail.gmail.com>

I change oil at 5K miles or at 12 months and use synthetic oil. Probably
overkill for many of my engines, however.

Regarding oil setting in an unused engine, I believe that synthetic oil
setting in an unused engine probably would not noticeably deteriorate for
periods longer than 12 months.

I know many folks who put synthetic oil in air-cooled motorcycles and only
ride a few hundred miles a year. When draining that oil, it looks pretty
much the same as it did when it was poured into the engine. I believe that
it probably could be used for longer than 12 months in that specific
scenario.

I think the 12 month change interval for low mileage engines is mostly
important for engines that routinely see short trips, do not reach
operating temperatures,and may have condensation build-up in the sump. It
probably also is more important for non-sealed crankcases in humid
environments where moisture from humidity could condense.

Moisture also is of course a byproduct of combustion, and if the engine
does not reach and run at normal operating temperatures for sustained
periods of time, moisture is likely to remain in the crankcase and
contaminate the oil.

I do not believe, however, that simply having oil in the sealed sump of an
unused engine would need to be changed every 12 months from being in
contact with the metal or other materials inside the engine.

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 6:56 PM Tom Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:

> The contaminants will cause the oil to degrade, hence the need to change
> it on either time or mileage, per the OEM spec (whichever comes first).
>
> Tom Coradeschi
> Tjcora at icloud.com
>
> On Aug 29, 2022, at 1:44 PM, Gene Garrison <gene at garrison-grafixx.com>
> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> I'm glad you brought that up.  I've always wondered about changing oil.
>
> So oil sitting in bottles on the shelf doesn't "go bad".  Right?
>
> Then why does oil sitting in a rarely used engine need to be changed?  I
> know it now has contaminants and such in it, but those aren't going to
> cause it to degrade, are they?
>
> - GeneG
> On 8/29/22 03:59, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
>
> I just replaced a set of trailer tires that had less than 2500 miles on
> them because they were ten years old and definitely showing it.
>
> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage or
> time interval, whichever comes first.  It's just something you have to
> budget for.
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 02:04 Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> re: "How many years can a set of tires go ..."
>>
>> Subject to debate, and how the tires are maintained. Some--often people
>> who make and sell tires--insist six years is the limit, regardless of
>> mileage, and if the tires are constantly exposed to extreme weather and
>> mileage that's not unreasonable. OTOH, if the tires are kept in a garage
>> not subject to temperature extremes and are only used 'around town' you can
>> usually go more, 7 or 8 years wouldn't be too risky. At any rate, going
>> beyond 10 years is pushing your luck.
>>
>> BUT ... for an SUV I'd be more cautious and probably observe the 6-year
>> 'rule.' SUVs and other trucks are top heavy and a catastrophic
>> failure--i.e. a blowout--esp. on a front tire can cause the vehicle to roll
>> over. Ford just got slapped with a $1B+ liability charge for an old truck
>> that had a blowout, rolled, and the cab squashed the elderly occupants. A
>> couple decades ago Ford got slammed when some incorrect, improperly
>> inflated Firestone tires--Ford and Firestone go WAY back--caused some fatal
>> rollover accidents with some Explorers.
>>
>> My rule of thumb: If I find myself worrying about my tires, it's time for
>> new. Your tires are only three years (+/-) old and, unless they're showing
>> 'checking'--cracking--or other damage they should be good for at least a
>> couple more years. Check your tire pressures regularly (at least once a
>> month).
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/28/2022 9:19 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:
>>
>> Thank you, Ian, for commenting to the group.  I will
>> need tires at some point, and that's good to know.
>>
>> That said, my car is the spare car of the family, and
>> has had the same tires since 2019.  How many years
>> can a set of tires go if they are just mostly used to
>> putt around town?  (My car has not quite 10,000 miles
>> on it.)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shannah
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 7:20 PM Ian McFetridge <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have had the Michelin Defender LTX on my pickup since fall 2020 and
>>> they are wearing well, ride smooth and quiet.  I?ve used Michelins on
>>> trucks since I worked in the tire dept at Sam?s in college.  They always
>>> took the least amount of weights to balance and had the least returns for
>>> issues or to rebalance.  The manager at Costco said that is all still true
>>> when I bought the last set.  YMMV :)
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> shop content... I drive my suburban into my shop
>>>>
>>>> time for tires... always used Michelin for the last 20 years with good
>>>> service... Vehicle is 2008 Suburban 1500 with 95% highway or town ...no off
>>>> road
>>>> occasional towing my hobby truck to shows on 20' car hauler (once or
>>>> twice a year with load equalizing hitch...)  Looking at reviews on my first
>>>> choice Michelin Defender LTX/MS
>>>> 275/55-20.   The reviews talk a lot about road noise and rough
>>>> ride..... My current Michelin Defenders  (bought in Jan 2016 ride smooth
>>>> and wear well.. 76K miles on them so far)
>>>>
>>>> I just turned 75 and this might be my last set of tires  [image:
>>>> Grinning Face with Smiling Eyes] ? so I'm looking for your thoughts on
>>>> Michelin or others afa mileage, ride, noise etc.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> john
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gene at garrison-grafixx.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
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>
>
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From jem at milleredp.com  Tue Aug 30 14:59:30 2022
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 13:59:30 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suv tires and oil question
In-Reply-To: <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
References: <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubv1Cy8w5.3UZp11M2nR8@johns-desktop>
 <CAFnfnRU-QtevyatX_juz8gE5J+RK4dQLZvEvgjSa0kjLk9Qtpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAy7z=1ksL69-yrAVYHgbNfB78cZKCeCV_kpPrjU+ujezRcEow@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cc2a0b2-999b-943a-11f4-cb9c2a21de9b@comcast.net>
 <CAO8Q7CPbvk37whpm9YV=Dktmutt6NBn7kVd1SeoCuQjVz5Uznw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37b174d0-e521-22f4-ea31-a8e4a969aeeb@garrison-grafixx.com>
Message-ID: <e09825f6-d961-ee9f-7794-c5e56ba5569c@milleredp.com>

>> I consider tires to be like oil - they should be changed at a mileage 
>> or time interval, whichever comes first. It's just something you have 
>> to budget for.

If you see visible cracking in the sidewalls you didn't keep them 
covered well enough.

Indoors out of solar UV and depending on other atmospheric conditions 
they will survive much longer than outdoors but you still need to look.

John.