From watsonm05 at comcast.net  Fri Apr  1 04:59:50 2022
From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 12:59:50 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Bear proof bird feeder.
In-Reply-To: <107cfddb-c24d-13df-2d17-d77c11d877bf@threeboysfarm.com>
References: <mailman.5.1648749601.23557.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <107cfddb-c24d-13df-2d17-d77c11d877bf@threeboysfarm.com>
Message-ID: <244170336.2062703.1648810790272@connect.xfinity.com>

Instant thought: BOOOIIINNNGGG

And imagine if the bears decide they like boinging it over and over.   What a video that would make!

> On 04/01/2022 2:50 AM Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com> wrote:
> 
>  
> Consider letting them bend it as they wish.? Weld a large spring 
> (perhaps a garage door spring, a car suspension spring, something easy 
> to find and heavy) and let them bend it as they wish. When they are done 
> it will return to vertical undamaged.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark Miller   707-490-5834
> markmiller at threeboysfarm.com
>

From pj_thomas at comcast.net  Fri Apr  1 08:00:07 2022
From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 10:00:07 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Bear proof bird feeder.
In-Reply-To: <244170336.2062703.1648810790272@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <mailman.5.1648749601.23557.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <107cfddb-c24d-13df-2d17-d77c11d877bf@threeboysfarm.com>
 <244170336.2062703.1648810790272@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <806bb3e1-b224-d919-09e3-bccd06dede48@comcast.net>

I'll bet the would.? Though I sure a 3" 14 gauge post fill with concrete 
and cemetted to bedrock with rebar gussets should with stand the bears.? 
I wondering more about what gauge steel plate I should use fabricate the 
bird feeder and weld it to the top of the post.? Feeder will only be 
about 6 feet off the ground so it's visible from inside the house.

On 4/1/2022 6:59 AM, Mark Watson wrote:
> Instant thought: BOOOIIINNNGGG
>
> And imagine if the bears decide they like boinging it over and over.   What a video that would make!
>
>> On 04/01/2022 2:50 AM Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com> wrote:
>>
>>   
>> Consider letting them bend it as they wish.? Weld a large spring
>> (perhaps a garage door spring, a car suspension spring, something easy
>> to find and heavy) and let them bend it as they wish. When they are done
>> it will return to vertical undamaged.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mark Miller   707-490-5834
>> markmiller at threeboysfarm.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net
>


From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 12:46:39 2022
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:46:39 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Bear proof bird feeder.
In-Reply-To: <107cfddb-c24d-13df-2d17-d77c11d877bf@threeboysfarm.com>
References: <107cfddb-c24d-13df-2d17-d77c11d877bf@threeboysfarm.com>
Message-ID: <4AEC055C-07C9-462B-923D-3669E7DD22D9@gmail.com>



> On Mar 31, 2022, at 19:51, Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Consider letting them bend it as they wish.  Weld a large spring (perhaps a garage door spring, a car suspension spring, something easy to find and heavy) and let them bend it as they wish. When they are done it will return to vertical undamaged.

This is available as a commercial product, used for signs in front of a parking space. 

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image0.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 140716 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220401/593bfe24/attachment-0002.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------

Keeps this from happening: 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image1.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 241342 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220401/593bfe24/attachment-0003.jpeg>

From dave1massey at cs.com  Sat Apr  2 09:24:45 2022
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2022 15:24:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Bear proof bird feeder.
In-Reply-To: <806bb3e1-b224-d919-09e3-bccd06dede48@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.5.1648749601.23557.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <107cfddb-c24d-13df-2d17-d77c11d877bf@threeboysfarm.com>
 <244170336.2062703.1648810790272@connect.xfinity.com>
 <806bb3e1-b224-d919-09e3-bccd06dede48@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <333027432.1339440.1648913085944@mail.yahoo.com>

 I'm sure 1/4 inch steel plate will stand up to any bear.? Even 1/8 inch plate will work.? Will 16 gauge steel be good enough?? Dunno.? Depends a lot on the dimensions.? Larger surfaces will more easily succumb to bear attack.? Also, return bends on the edges make it much stronger than a cut edge.? Dimensions matter
Another thing, what kind of bear are we talking about?? Grizzly, brown, Yogi?
 
Dave 


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter J. Thomas <pj_thomas at comcast.net>
To: Mark Watson <watsonm05 at comcast.net>; shop-talk at autox.team.net
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 9:00 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Bear proof bird feeder.

I'll bet the would.? Though I sure a 3" 14 gauge post fill with concrete 
and cemetted to bedrock with rebar gussets should with stand the bears.? 
I wondering more about what gauge steel plate I should use fabricate the 
bird feeder and weld it to the top of the post.? Feeder will only be 
about 6 feet off the ground so it's visible from inside the house.

On 4/1/2022 6:59 AM, Mark Watson wrote:
> Instant thought: BOOOIIINNNGGG
>
> And imagine if the bears decide they like boinging it over and over.? What a video that would make!
>
>> On 04/01/2022 2:50 AM Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com> wrote:
>>
>>? 
>> Consider letting them bend it as they wish.? Weld a large spring
>> (perhaps a garage door spring, a car suspension spring, something easy
>> to find and heavy) and let them bend it as they wish. When they are done
>> it will return to vertical undamaged.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mark Miller? 707-490-5834
>> markmiller at threeboysfarm.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation? $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net
>

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation? $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220402/3261260c/attachment.htm>

From pj_thomas at comcast.net  Mon Apr  4 05:52:12 2022
From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 07:52:12 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Bear proof bird feeder.
In-Reply-To: <333027432.1339440.1648913085944@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.5.1648749601.23557.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <107cfddb-c24d-13df-2d17-d77c11d877bf@threeboysfarm.com>
 <244170336.2062703.1648810790272@connect.xfinity.com>
 <806bb3e1-b224-d919-09e3-bccd06dede48@comcast.net>
 <333027432.1339440.1648913085944@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9d755008-b989-a588-6346-be83495b3b95@comcast.net>

Thanks!!!? I been toying with 10 gauge (1/8") or 16 gauge with 
reinforcements.? Going to see what cutoffs the metal deal has.? Black 
bear or two.? There is a pair that roams town.



On 4/2/2022 11:24 AM, DAVID MASSEY wrote:
> I'm sure 1/4 inch steel plate will stand up to any bear.? Even 1/8 
> inch plate will work.? Will 16 gauge steel be good enough?? Dunno.? 
> Depends a lot on the dimensions.? Larger surfaces will more easily 
> succumb to bear attack.? Also, return bends on the edges make it much 
> stronger than a cut edge.? Dimensions matter
>
> Another thing, what kind of bear are we talking about?? Grizzly, 
> brown, Yogi?
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter J. Thomas <pj_thomas at comcast.net>
> To: Mark Watson <watsonm05 at comcast.net>; shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 9:00 am
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Bear proof bird feeder.
>
> I'll bet the would.? Though I sure a 3" 14 gauge post fill with concrete
> and cemetted to bedrock with rebar gussets should with stand the bears.
> I wondering more about what gauge steel plate I should use fabricate the
> bird feeder and weld it to the top of the post.? Feeder will only be
> about 6 feet off the ground so it's visible from inside the house.
>
> On 4/1/2022 6:59 AM, Mark Watson wrote:
> > Instant thought: BOOOIIINNNGGG
> >
> > And imagine if the bears decide they like boinging it over and 
> over.? What a video that would make!
> >
> >> On 04/01/2022 2:50 AM Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Consider letting them bend it as they wish.? Weld a large spring
> >> (perhaps a garage door spring, a car suspension spring, something easy
> >> to find and heavy) and let them bend it as they wish. When they are 
> done
> >> it will return to vertical undamaged.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Mark Miller? 707-490-5834
> >> markmiller at threeboysfarm.com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation? $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation? $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220404/049c9384/attachment.htm>

From pj_thomas at comcast.net  Mon Apr  4 05:56:50 2022
From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 07:56:50 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Bear proof bird feeder.
In-Reply-To: <4AEC055C-07C9-462B-923D-3669E7DD22D9@gmail.com>
References: <107cfddb-c24d-13df-2d17-d77c11d877bf@threeboysfarm.com>
 <4AEC055C-07C9-462B-923D-3669E7DD22D9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f8684035-3766-6a15-9e25-39068a1e0e2e@comcast.net>

Good idea, though not sure it's necessary for black bear and I'd still 
have to make the feeder bear proof.

On 4/1/2022 2:46 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
>
>> On Mar 31, 2022, at 19:51, Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Consider letting them bend it as they wish.  Weld a large spring (perhaps a garage door spring, a car suspension spring, something easy to find and heavy) and let them bend it as they wish. When they are done it will return to vertical undamaged.
> This is available as a commercial product, used for signs in front of a parking space.
>
>
> Keeps this from happening:
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net
>


From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 17:07:41 2022
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2022 19:07:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
Message-ID: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>

My great grandfather was one of the country?s first manufacturer?s of wooden airplane propellers and his personal collection of 7 props was sold to a collector in Savannah, GA when he died.  I, and other members of my family, have worked for many years to have them returned to the family and we finally succeeded last week.  We had a family lottery to find them new homes and 3 of them now need to go to the west coast, 3 to the Chicago area and the last to Kentucky.  (It isn?t relevant to the question that follows, but it is nice to add that 6 of the 7 are going to younger members of the family that are buying their first prop.  Those of my generation have been searching them out and snapping them up for years, and most of us already own one or two*.)

Now comes the hard part: getting them to their new owners.  The props are 80 to 110 years old and most of them are around 8? long; one is 10?.  The good thing about wooden props is that they don?t weigh much, but they will need to be handled carefully.  We are planning on shipping them in two bundles of three props (the one to KY will be handled separately) and need to find a shipper who can pack them up in GA and get them to the west coast and Chicago.  This is a long shot, but does anyone here have any contacts or direct knowledge of a shipper that might be appropriate for the job?

Thanks,
Jim

*Shop content: My props hang on the inside wall adjacent to my shop.  :)

From bspidell at comcast.net  Sat Apr  9 17:20:17 2022
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2022 16:20:17 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
In-Reply-To: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
References: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe8fd43b-90ae-258c-a216-39706516321f@comcast.net>

I can't advise on a shipper, but you are wise to be cautious. Years ago, 
I was in a partnership for a Cherokee 180, which needed to have its prop 
replaced (ground down one too many times). After a lot of (internet) 
shopping, we found a serviceable prop, and had it shipped to us; it 
arrived damaged (we sent it back). After much more shopping around, we 
found another; the mechanics had it hung on the engine before they 
discovered it had a golfball-sized gouge on the trailing edge, as if it 
had been speared by a forklift prong. Back to the interwebs. We found 
yet another serviceable prop and had it shipped, this time with $1M 
insurance on it--it arrived undamaged. I don't recall all the shippers, 
but the final shipment was by FedEx (we might have tried UPS as well). 
Props are an awkward size and shape for shipping, but a massive policy 
on them seems to warrant extra care from the shippers.

On 4/9/2022 4:07 PM, Jim Stone wrote:
> My great grandfather was one of the country?s first manufacturer?s of wooden airplane propellers and his personal collection of 7 props was sold to a collector in Savannah, GA when he died.  I, and other members of my family, have worked for many years to have them returned to the family and we finally succeeded last week.  We had a family lottery to find them new homes and 3 of them now need to go to the west coast, 3 to the Chicago area and the last to Kentucky.  (It isn?t relevant to the question that follows, but it is nice to add that 6 of the 7 are going to younger members of the family that are buying their first prop.  Those of my generation have been searching them out and snapping them up for years, and most of us already own one or two*.)
>
> Now comes the hard part: getting them to their new owners.  The props are 80 to 110 years old and most of them are around 8? long; one is 10?.  The good thing about wooden props is that they don?t weigh much, but they will need to be handled carefully.  We are planning on shipping them in two bundles of three props (the one to KY will be handled separately) and need to find a shipper who can pack them up in GA and get them to the west coast and Chicago.  This is a long shot, but does anyone here have any contacts or direct knowledge of a shipper that might be appropriate for the job?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> *Shop content: My props hang on the inside wall adjacent to my shop.  :)
>


From bspidell at comcast.net  Sat Apr  9 17:31:34 2022
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2022 16:31:34 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
In-Reply-To: <fe8fd43b-90ae-258c-a216-39706516321f@comcast.net>
References: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
 <fe8fd43b-90ae-258c-a216-39706516321f@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <a32216c8-d912-4cbe-6fb3-085d39139b80@comcast.net>

ps. Wooden props are works of art; your grandpa must have been a real 
craftsman.


On 4/9/2022 4:20 PM, Bob Spidell wrote:
> I can't advise on a shipper, but you are wise to be cautious. Years 
> ago, I was in a partnership for a Cherokee 180, which needed to have 
> its prop replaced (ground down one too many times). After a lot of 
> (internet) shopping, we found a serviceable prop, and had it shipped 
> to us; it arrived damaged (we sent it back). After much more shopping 
> around, we found another; the mechanics had it hung on the engine 
> before they discovered it had a golfball-sized gouge on the trailing 
> edge, as if it had been speared by a forklift prong. Back to the 
> interwebs. We found yet another serviceable prop and had it shipped, 
> this time with $1M insurance on it--it arrived undamaged. I don't 
> recall all the shippers, but the final shipment was by FedEx (we might 
> have tried UPS as well). Props are an awkward size and shape for 
> shipping, but a massive policy on them seems to warrant extra care 
> from the shippers.
>
> On 4/9/2022 4:07 PM, Jim Stone wrote:
>> My great grandfather was one of the country?s first manufacturer?s of 
>> wooden airplane propellers and his personal collection of 7 props was 
>> sold to a collector in Savannah, GA when he died.? I, and other 
>> members of my family, have worked for many years to have them 
>> returned to the family and we finally succeeded last week.? We had a 
>> family lottery to find them new homes and 3 of them now need to go to 
>> the west coast, 3 to the Chicago area and the last to Kentucky.? (It 
>> isn?t relevant to the question that follows, but it is nice to add 
>> that 6 of the 7 are going to younger members of the family that are 
>> buying their first prop.? Those of my generation have been searching 
>> them out and snapping them up for years, and most of us already own 
>> one or two*.)
>>
>> Now comes the hard part: getting them to their new owners.? The props 
>> are 80 to 110 years old and most of them are around 8? long; one is 
>> 10?.? The good thing about wooden props is that they don?t weigh 
>> much, but they will need to be handled carefully.? We are planning on 
>> shipping them in two bundles of three props (the one to KY will be 
>> handled separately) and need to find a shipper who can pack them up 
>> in GA and get them to the west coast and Chicago.? This is a long 
>> shot, but does anyone here have any contacts or direct knowledge of a 
>> shipper that might be appropriate for the job?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>>
>> *Shop content: My props hang on the inside wall adjacent to my shop.? :)
>>
>


From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 17:58:38 2022
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2022 19:58:38 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
In-Reply-To: <a32216c8-d912-4cbe-6fb3-085d39139b80@comcast.net>
References: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
 <fe8fd43b-90ae-258c-a216-39706516321f@comcast.net>
 <a32216c8-d912-4cbe-6fb3-085d39139b80@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <41A8469B-CEFC-459C-92F7-EF918A07E7DC@gmail.com>

He was!  The Smithsonian has one of his props.  He was a cabinet maker at one point and specialized in ivory inlaid cabinets for early Edison phonographs.  He later carved wooden molds for ships? propellers in Liverpool, prior to becoming enamored of the early airplane industry.  I never met him, but have felt an affinity for him my whole life, as neither my father nor my grandfather had much interest in shop stuff.  I always had a tool in my hand growing up and assume that had to have come from him.  I am really disappointed not to have been able to buy one of the ones from his collection (many of them are signed and dated) but really happy that they are back in the family.

> On Apr 9, 2022, at 7:31 PM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> ps. Wooden props are works of art; your grandpa must have been a real craftsman.
> 
> 
> On 4/9/2022 4:20 PM, Bob Spidell wrote:
>> I can't advise on a shipper, but you are wise to be cautious. Years ago, I was in a partnership for a Cherokee 180, which needed to have its prop replaced (ground down one too many times). After a lot of (internet) shopping, we found a serviceable prop, and had it shipped to us; it arrived damaged (we sent it back). After much more shopping around, we found another; the mechanics had it hung on the engine before they discovered it had a golfball-sized gouge on the trailing edge, as if it had been speared by a forklift prong. Back to the interwebs. We found yet another serviceable prop and had it shipped, this time with $1M insurance on it--it arrived undamaged. I don't recall all the shippers, but the final shipment was by FedEx (we might have tried UPS as well). Props are an awkward size and shape for shipping, but a massive policy on them seems to warrant extra care from the shippers.
>> 
>> On 4/9/2022 4:07 PM, Jim Stone wrote:
>>> My great grandfather was one of the country?s first manufacturer?s of wooden airplane propellers and his personal collection of 7 props was sold to a collector in Savannah, GA when he died.  I, and other members of my family, have worked for many years to have them returned to the family and we finally succeeded last week.  We had a family lottery to find them new homes and 3 of them now need to go to the west coast, 3 to the Chicago area and the last to Kentucky.  (It isn?t relevant to the question that follows, but it is nice to add that 6 of the 7 are going to younger members of the family that are buying their first prop.  Those of my generation have been searching them out and snapping them up for years, and most of us already own one or two*.)
>>> 
>>> Now comes the hard part: getting them to their new owners.  The props are 80 to 110 years old and most of them are around 8? long; one is 10?.  The good thing about wooden props is that they don?t weigh much, but they will need to be handled carefully.  We are planning on shipping them in two bundles of three props (the one to KY will be handled separately) and need to find a shipper who can pack them up in GA and get them to the west coast and Chicago.  This is a long shot, but does anyone here have any contacts or direct knowledge of a shipper that might be appropriate for the job?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> *Shop content: My props hang on the inside wall adjacent to my shop.  :)
>>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com
> 


From phoenix722 at comcast.net  Sat Apr  9 21:27:32 2022
From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2022 20:27:32 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
In-Reply-To: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
References: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <208521dc-a625-b63b-2141-401655102739@comcast.net>

It might be a similar cost to take them yourself, if you have a vehicle 
to handle them.? Don't all shop guys have pickups?? Yes, there is time 
involved, but these are irreplaceable.? Just a thought.

Mike
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220409/f4bccdb8/attachment.htm>

From eric at megageek.com  Sun Apr 10 03:24:41 2022
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 05:24:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
In-Reply-To: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
References: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFB49EFCF5.60E59822-ON85258820.003362F3-85258820.0033B31E@mail.megageek.com>

The whole deal would be how you package them.  Just so happens, I have 
large long pelican cases that they would fit into.

I would be more than happy to donate any cases that would fit the props to 
you if you paid for shipping.  Once in a case (with the foam around it) I 
can't image that there is much that can happen.

Once of the cases should fit the 10' (I'll have to measure it for sure.) 
and I have another one that will do an 8'.  If you have shorter ones, I 
have more smaller cases.

Just let me know.

Moose.



From:   Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com>
To:     Shop Talk <shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net>
Date:   04/09/2022 19:08
Subject:        [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net>



My great grandfather was one of the country?s first manufacturer?s of 
wooden airplane propellers and his personal collection of 7 props was sold 
to a collector in Savannah, GA when he died.  I, and other members of my 
family, have worked for many years to have them returned to the family and 
we finally succeeded last week.  We had a family lottery to find them new 
homes and 3 of them now need to go to the west coast, 3 to the Chicago 
area and the last to Kentucky.  (It isn?t relevant to the question that 
follows, but it is nice to add that 6 of the 7 are going to younger 
members of the family that are buying their first prop.  Those of my 
generation have been searching them out and snapping them up for years, 
and most of us already own one or two*.)

Now comes the hard part: getting them to their new owners.  The props are 
80 to 110 years old and most of them are around 8? long; one is 10?.  The 
good thing about wooden props is that they don?t weigh much, but they will 
need to be handled carefully.  We are planning on shipping them in two 
bundles of three props (the one to KY will be handled separately) and need 
to find a shipper who can pack them up in GA and get them to the west 
coast and Chicago.  This is a long shot, but does anyone here have any 
contacts or direct knowledge of a shipper that might be appropriate for 
the job?

Thanks,
Jim

*Shop content: My props hang on the inside wall adjacent to my shop.  :)
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/3e5283a3/attachment-0001.htm>

From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 06:28:27 2022
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 08:28:27 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
In-Reply-To: <OFB49EFCF5.60E59822-ON85258820.003362F3-85258820.0033B31E@mail.megageek.com>
References: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
 <OFB49EFCF5.60E59822-ON85258820.003362F3-85258820.0033B31E@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <175464EC-77B0-4B0E-98F6-75441E9AB6E9@gmail.com>

Mike: that was actually my original plan, at least for the non-west coast props.  Unfortunately, while I do have a pickup, it is a Honda Ridgeline and the bed is too short to safely transport most of them.  That said, Moose?s generous offer (this is definitely the most incredible email list ever!) might change the dynamics.  Moose: Thank you!!  I am just about to leave the house to go do some handyman work for my daughter, but will contact you separately later today.  

Also, for anyone interested, here are a couple of photos.  I kept out some of the details trying to keep the initial post as focused on the question as possible, but as you can see, one of the props isn?t wood.



MJ invented and held the patent on the hollow core metal prop.  This may well be the first one and it was the only one in the collection I really wanted.



Thanks again everyone!

Jim


> On Apr 10, 2022, at 5:24 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> 
> The whole deal would be how you package them.  Just so happens, I have large long pelican cases that they would fit into. 
> 
> I would be more than happy to donate any cases that would fit the props to you if you paid for shipping.  Once in a case (with the foam around it) I can't image that there is much that can happen. 
> 
> Once of the cases should fit the 10' (I'll have to measure it for sure.) and I have another one that will do an 8'.  If you have shorter ones, I have more smaller cases. 
> 
> Just let me know. 
> 
> Moose. 
> 
> 
> 
> From:        Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> 
> To:        Shop Talk <shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net> 
> Date:        04/09/2022 19:08 
> Subject:        [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers 
> Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> 
> 
> 
> 
> My great grandfather was one of the country?s first manufacturer?s of wooden airplane propellers and his personal collection of 7 props was sold to a collector in Savannah, GA when he died.  I, and other members of my family, have worked for many years to have them returned to the family and we finally succeeded last week.  We had a family lottery to find them new homes and 3 of them now need to go to the west coast, 3 to the Chicago area and the last to Kentucky.  (It isn?t relevant to the question that follows, but it is nice to add that 6 of the 7 are going to younger members of the family that are buying their first prop.  Those of my generation have been searching them out and snapping them up for years, and most of us already own one or two*.)
> 
> Now comes the hard part: getting them to their new owners.  The props are 80 to 110 years old and most of them are around 8? long; one is 10?.  The good thing about wooden props is that they don?t weigh much, but they will need to be handled carefully.  We are planning on shipping them in two bundles of three props (the one to KY will be handled separately) and need to find a shipper who can pack them up in GA and get them to the west coast and Chicago.  This is a long shot, but does anyone here have any contacts or direct knowledge of a shipper that might be appropriate for the job?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> *Shop content: My props hang on the inside wall adjacent to my shop.  :)
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com>
> 
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/35b65c17/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04035.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 22913 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/35b65c17/attachment-0004.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04038.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 16702 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/35b65c17/attachment-0005.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04026.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 6017 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/35b65c17/attachment-0006.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04029.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 20449 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/35b65c17/attachment-0007.jpeg>

From fishplate at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 06:50:30 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 08:50:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
In-Reply-To: <175464EC-77B0-4B0E-98F6-75441E9AB6E9@gmail.com>
References: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
 <OFB49EFCF5.60E59822-ON85258820.003362F3-85258820.0033B31E@mail.megageek.com>
 <175464EC-77B0-4B0E-98F6-75441E9AB6E9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CMBBi0Oxz8-a2JUvvTGw7-qPqhtC4t6F1_yX5YVgMtwQg@mail.gmail.com>

Those look amazing, and with the family connection, they are beyond
priceless.  Thanks for sharing with us!

On Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 08:37 Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike: that was actually my original plan, at least for the non-west coast
> props.  Unfortunately, while I do have a pickup, it is a Honda Ridgeline
> and the bed is too short to safely transport most of them.  That said,
> Moose?s generous offer (this is definitely the most incredible email list
> ever!) might change the dynamics.  Moose: Thank you!!  I am just about to
> leave the house to go do some handyman work for my daughter, but will
> contact you separately later today.
>
> Also, for anyone interested, here are a couple of photos.  I kept out some
> of the details trying to keep the initial post as focused on the question
> as possible, but as you can see, one of the props isn?t wood.
>
>
> MJ invented and held the patent on the hollow core metal prop.  This may
> well be the first one and it was the only one in the collection I really
> wanted.
>
>
> Thanks again everyone!
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2022, at 5:24 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
>
> The whole deal would be how you package them.  Just so happens, I have
> large long pelican cases that they would fit into.
>
> I would be more than happy to donate any cases that would fit the props to
> you if you paid for shipping.  Once in a case (with the foam around it) I
> can't image that there is much that can happen.
>
> Once of the cases should fit the 10' (I'll have to measure it for sure.)
> and I have another one that will do an 8'.  If you have shorter ones, I
> have more smaller cases.
>
> Just let me know.
>
> Moose.
>
>
>
> From:        Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com>
> To:        Shop Talk <shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net>
> Date:        04/09/2022 19:08
> Subject:        [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
> Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> My great grandfather was one of the country?s first manufacturer?s of
> wooden airplane propellers and his personal collection of 7 props was sold
> to a collector in Savannah, GA when he died.  I, and other members of my
> family, have worked for many years to have them returned to the family and
> we finally succeeded last week.  We had a family lottery to find them new
> homes and 3 of them now need to go to the west coast, 3 to the Chicago area
> and the last to Kentucky.  (It isn?t relevant to the question that follows,
> but it is nice to add that 6 of the 7 are going to younger members of the
> family that are buying their first prop.  Those of my generation have been
> searching them out and snapping them up for years, and most of us already
> own one or two*.)
>
> Now comes the hard part: getting them to their new owners.  The props are
> 80 to 110 years old and most of them are around 8? long; one is 10?.  The
> good thing about wooden props is that they don?t weigh much, but they will
> need to be handled carefully.  We are planning on shipping them in two
> bundles of three props (the one to KY will be handled separately) and need
> to find a shipper who can pack them up in GA and get them to the west coast
> and Chicago.  This is a long shot, but does anyone here have any contacts
> or direct knowledge of a shipper that might be appropriate for the job?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> *Shop content: My props hang on the inside wall adjacent to my shop.  :)
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04035.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 22913 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0008.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04038.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 16702 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0009.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04026.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 6017 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0010.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04029.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 20449 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0011.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04026.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 6017 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0012.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04029.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 20449 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0013.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04035.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 22913 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0014.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: DSC04038.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 16702 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/72200195/attachment-0015.jpeg>

From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 15:55:06 2022
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2022 17:55:06 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CMBBi0Oxz8-a2JUvvTGw7-qPqhtC4t6F1_yX5YVgMtwQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47E96FA2-A43C-477E-A15C-EFD7E0B9CED7@gmail.com>
 <OFB49EFCF5.60E59822-ON85258820.003362F3-85258820.0033B31E@mail.megageek.com>
 <175464EC-77B0-4B0E-98F6-75441E9AB6E9@gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7CMBBi0Oxz8-a2JUvvTGw7-qPqhtC4t6F1_yX5YVgMtwQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F8AB1AA-972D-4EEB-B03E-BA3825C0BBD9@gmail.com>

Thanks, Jeff.  I hesitated to go into too much detail on exactly what we were shipping, but figured it was relevant and also thought a few guys would find the background interesting.

Jim

> On Apr 10, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Those look amazing, and with the family connection, they are beyond priceless.  Thanks for sharing with us!
> 
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 08:37 Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com <mailto:1789alpine at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Mike: that was actually my original plan, at least for the non-west coast props.  Unfortunately, while I do have a pickup, it is a Honda Ridgeline and the bed is too short to safely transport most of them.  That said, Moose?s generous offer (this is definitely the most incredible email list ever!) might change the dynamics.  Moose: Thank you!!  I am just about to leave the house to go do some handyman work for my daughter, but will contact you separately later today.  
> 
> Also, for anyone interested, here are a couple of photos.  I kept out some of the details trying to keep the initial post as focused on the question as possible, but as you can see, one of the props isn?t wood.
> 
> 
> 
> MJ invented and held the patent on the hollow core metal prop.  This may well be the first one and it was the only one in the collection I really wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again everyone!
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2022, at 5:24 AM, eric at megageek.com <mailto:eric at megageek.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The whole deal would be how you package them.  Just so happens, I have large long pelican cases that they would fit into. 
>> 
>> I would be more than happy to donate any cases that would fit the props to you if you paid for shipping.  Once in a case (with the foam around it) I can't image that there is much that can happen. 
>> 
>> Once of the cases should fit the 10' (I'll have to measure it for sure.) and I have another one that will do an 8'.  If you have shorter ones, I have more smaller cases. 
>> 
>> Just let me know. 
>> 
>> Moose. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:        Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com <mailto:1789alpine at gmail.com>> 
>> To:        Shop Talk <shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net>> 
>> Date:        04/09/2022 19:08 
>> Subject:        [Shop-talk] Shipping antique wooden propellers 
>> Sent by:        "Shop-talk" <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My great grandfather was one of the country?s first manufacturer?s of wooden airplane propellers and his personal collection of 7 props was sold to a collector in Savannah, GA when he died.  I, and other members of my family, have worked for many years to have them returned to the family and we finally succeeded last week.  We had a family lottery to find them new homes and 3 of them now need to go to the west coast, 3 to the Chicago area and the last to Kentucky.  (It isn?t relevant to the question that follows, but it is nice to add that 6 of the 7 are going to younger members of the family that are buying their first prop.  Those of my generation have been searching them out and snapping them up for years, and most of us already own one or two*.)
>> 
>> Now comes the hard part: getting them to their new owners.  The props are 80 to 110 years old and most of them are around 8? long; one is 10?.  The good thing about wooden props is that they don?t weigh much, but they will need to be handled carefully.  We are planning on shipping them in two bundles of three props (the one to KY will be handled separately) and need to find a shipper who can pack them up in GA and get them to the west coast and Chicago.  This is a long shot, but does anyone here have any contacts or direct knowledge of a shipper that might be appropriate for the job?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>> 
>> *Shop content: My props hang on the inside wall adjacent to my shop.  :)
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com>
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com>
> 
> <DSC04035.jpeg><DSC04026.jpeg><DSC04038.jpeg><DSC04029.jpeg><DSC04038.jpeg><DSC04038.jpeg><DSC04038.jpeg><DSC04038.jpeg>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220410/05988717/attachment.htm>

From maynerdfamily at msn.com  Sun Apr 10 20:34:28 2022
From: maynerdfamily at msn.com (Brian and Wendy Warrick)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 02:34:28 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Saab V-4
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7COv16jY_wtKmb7yMaR7nUPGazJ9jTgYCJzAoqmyeOAa8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7COv16jY_wtKmb7yMaR7nUPGazJ9jTgYCJzAoqmyeOAa8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MW2PR07MB3978C5336E157F657149FFFFBBEA9@MW2PR07MB3978.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Jeff,

Derek Bieri on Youtube as Vice Grip Garage has one of these cars. He may appreciate the parts.

Thanks,

Brian
Nampa, ID
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2022 2:23 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Saab V-4

Anybody have a Saab V-4 car?  Sonett or 96 (I think)...

I have a pair of valve cover gaskets and a pair of SS front brake hoses that have sat unused in my shop for 30 years, ever since my Sonett got totaled.  If you can use them, let me know - yours for the cost of postage.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220411/1bcf6adb/attachment-0001.htm>

From jniolon at att.net  Mon Apr 11 16:01:45 2022
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:01:45 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>

I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
\even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..   

anyone have any experienced with this type service ??

example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581

thanks
john
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220411/7ff0cbad/attachment.htm>

From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Apr 11 16:17:09 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:17:09 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <FDFCF217-0238-4E3F-90E8-5310996DC29D@icloud.com>

John,

I have only tried Ethernet over power line once & it didn?t work. It was about 10 years ago, so I?m sure things are better now so it?s worth a try. One thing to watch is to be sure that the two modules are plugged into the same line. If one is on L1 & the other on L2 it probably won?t work. Try it & if it doesn?t work, move one unit to the opposite line. Both also have to be on the same transformer on the pole. 

I?ve had good luck with non line of site through trees & underbrush by using 900mhz radios. I had one installation where the radios were about 1/4 mile apart with a lake & solid growth in between. Worked fine with directional antennas. 

Ethernet is spec?ed for up to 300 meters so cable should work but if you get much lightning in your area I wouldn?t use it, I?d go with fiber. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 11, 2022, at 5:02 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
\even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..  
 
anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
 
example:
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
 
thanks
john
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220411/57752f80/attachment.htm>

From mbarre at juno.com  Mon Apr 11 10:51:00 2022
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 16:51:00 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] cheap. long lasting lighting
Message-ID: <20220411.125100.24013.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>


I know some of you are pretty well informed on led lighting options, so...

I have a stand alone wooden bar with a diffused lighting panel in the top.  When it was built over 30 years ago it used a 4' fluorescent bulb.  It was updated at some point to one of the plug in led tubes and it is now time to revisit because it is now out.  I was tempted to simply plug in another led tube but since the power supply has to be over 20 years old perhaps it is time to replace the whole works.  This light stays on 24x7x365 and is more for accent than visibility so it doesn't need to be all that bright.  It isn't that convenient to service since a lot of junk is stored on top of the bar so longevity is nice.  I have a couple of lamp bases on hand, should I just wire them in for 3 traditional led bulbs? or maybe just buy el cheapo 4' led shop light?

After a long day i the shop I have been know to stop by this particular piece of furniture on occasion...

From fishplate at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 16:19:16 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 18:19:16 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CNsQwgofTMLi_P9NYUEAYnKsv-9X58S_scm_qxRSDHhtg@mail.gmail.com>

It's my understanding that all the boxes need to be on the same service.
For instance, my shop has a separate transformer so that wouldn't work for
me.

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 18:02 john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop
> building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of
> cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem
> plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any
> other plug on same
> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
>
> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>
> example:
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220411/6ff26c83/attachment-0001.htm>

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 16:25:27 2022
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:25:27 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YBkpvUkv8QtJnS-3sKmsCjv74uMW44umf6LubK_dsEXbg@mail.gmail.com>

I used a wireless bridge to solve this problem.  It was not cheap, but it
was easy to set up and has worked flawlessly.  Requires direct line of
sight, and power at both ends.  Otherwise it can be configured to work just
like a long piece of wire.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EBBKVDE/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_GA4QVT0811TPGNBPX8VY

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 5:02 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop
> building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of
> cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem
> plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any
> other plug on same
> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
>
> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>
> example:
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220411/3763ceb2/attachment.htm>

From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Apr 11 17:09:08 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 18:09:08 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YBkpvUkv8QtJnS-3sKmsCjv74uMW44umf6LubK_dsEXbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANuE7YBkpvUkv8QtJnS-3sKmsCjv74uMW44umf6LubK_dsEXbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7EDD9E5C-6A21-45E9-BC1E-F86A7F2CFEC3@icloud.com>

Ubiquity is good equipment. I?m rather surprised that they are using 5gb, it is less reliable if ?anything ? gets in the way. 

I?ve used Mikrotik equipment for many years. If you?re not familiar with router confirmation it can be a pain. It?s pro grade equipment at low prices. Lots of flexibility. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 11, 2022, at 5:26 PM, John Innis <jdinnis at gmail.com> wrote:

?
I used a wireless bridge to solve this problem.  It was not cheap, but it was easy to set up and has worked flawlessly.  Requires direct line of sight, and power at both ends.  Otherwise it can be configured to work just like a long piece of wire.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EBBKVDE/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_GA4QVT0811TPGNBPX8VY

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 5:02 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..  
>  
> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>  
> example:
>  
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>  
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
> 


-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220411/1c42b361/attachment.htm>

From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Apr 11 17:34:07 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 18:34:07 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] cheap. long lasting lighting
In-Reply-To: <20220411.125100.24013.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20220411.125100.24013.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <7372A8A3-E1D8-48F4-97AA-1E1A1F03EE91@icloud.com>

Check out primelights.com. I am using their 10 of their 3-tube Bolt fixtures & lamps in my shop. $83 each. No problems whatsoever. These tubes don?t need any electronics or ballast, everything is in the tube. The sheet metal is rather thin but once it?s in place it?s fine. They come in either clear or frosted so you can choose. I wired mine to have 3 brightness levels by turning on one, two or all 3 lamps. 

All the big box stores sell similar. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 11, 2022, at 5:21 PM, Matt <mbarre at juno.com> wrote:

?
I know some of you are pretty well informed on led lighting options, so...

I have a stand alone wooden bar with a diffused lighting panel in the top.  When it was built over 30 years ago it used a 4' fluorescent bulb.  It was updated at some point to one of the plug in led tubes and it is now time to revisit because it is now out.  I was tempted to simply plug in another led tube but since the power supply has to be over 20 years old perhaps it is time to replace the whole works.  This light stays on 24x7x365 and is more for accent than visibility so it doesn't need to be all that bright.  It isn't that convenient to service since a lot of junk is stored on top of the bar so longevity is nice.  I have a couple of lamp bases on hand, should I just wire them in for 3 traditional led bulbs? or maybe just buy el cheapo 4' led shop light?

After a long day i the shop I have been know to stop by this particular piece of furniture on occasion...
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Mon Apr 11 17:46:28 2022
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 19:46:28 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] cheap. long lasting lighting
In-Reply-To: <7372A8A3-E1D8-48F4-97AA-1E1A1F03EE91@icloud.com>
References: <20220411.125100.24013.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
 <7372A8A3-E1D8-48F4-97AA-1E1A1F03EE91@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <4C637680-38CC-478E-9ADA-ECE87FCDC7DA@groupwbench.org>

I had 8 shop-style dual 4' LEDs,seemingly sold at every local lumberyard for about $15 each. However they were BRIGHT. And given your stated use I don't think it's the right application. But I see Home Depot sells a 2700K "warm white" LED 4' tube that you could replace the bulbs with, if you can't find a warm bulb version as a whole unit. 

jim

> On Apr 11, 2022, at 7:34 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Check out primelights.com. I am using their 10 of their 3-tube Bolt fixtures & lamps in my shop. $83 each. No problems whatsoever. These tubes don?t need any electronics or ballast, everything is in the tube. The sheet metal is rather thin but once it?s in place it?s fine. They come in either clear or frosted so you can choose. I wired mine to have 3 brightness levels by turning on one, two or all 3 lamps. 
> 
> All the big box stores sell similar. 
> 
> Peace,
> Pat
> 
> Pat Horne 
> We support Habitat for Humanity
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2022, at 5:21 PM, Matt <mbarre at juno.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I know some of you are pretty well informed on led lighting options, so...
> 
> I have a stand alone wooden bar with a diffused lighting panel in the top.  When it was built over 30 years ago it used a 4' fluorescent bulb.  It was updated at some point to one of the plug in led tubes and it is now time to revisit because it is now out.  I was tempted to simply plug in another led tube but since the power supply has to be over 20 years old perhaps it is time to replace the whole works.  This light stays on 24x7x365 and is more for accent than visibility so it doesn't need to be all that bright.  It isn't that convenient to service since a lot of junk is stored on top of the bar so longevity is nice.  I have a couple of lamp bases on hand, should I just wire them in for 3 traditional led bulbs? or maybe just buy el cheapo 4' led shop light?
> 
> After a long day i the shop I have been know to stop by this particular piece of furniture on occasion...
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org
> 


From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 20:40:56 2022
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 22:40:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP_756YJ_qOY+CFC-3rM+P32=qBYz7ODRjVm8gFV_VGKzQ@mail.gmail.com>

John-

How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?

I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and have
had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200'
from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection
between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have
pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on
the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but
a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be
surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would
connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your
router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can get
versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you can
adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are also
network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that the
network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place several
wherever you need them, and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I
like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a
couple of ports are wicked handy.

In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from the
network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about
150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one
building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two
locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus
the power available to increase your link budget and "burn through" the
vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty
cheap on Amazon
<https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV?th=1>)
- they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz
channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if that
balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidth, so
they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused
where you want it.

When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the service
run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now -
didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made
6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up
at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the
ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional
copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or
lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna.
LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.

If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet
maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in
flexible conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place.
You don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line -
goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS
don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit
before you dig.

Happy to talk further!

-Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop
> building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of
> cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem
> plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any
> other plug on same
> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
>
> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>
> example:
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220411/fb7c06c0/attachment.htm>

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Mon Apr 11 21:49:49 2022
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:49:49 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <25fc9bbe-d896-4f2b-3853-d1d8f7aa4479@earthlink.net>

300' of cat-5e or cat-6 cable should be fine.? Max total cable length 
between devices is 328' or 100m before signal loss.? If you put a router 
at the near end of the shop, it should provide nice local wifi in the 
shop or let you plug in a laptop or remote security camera.

If you go fiber, you can easily go 500-2000m depending on the type of 
fiber and speed.? You can either pull a premade cable or terminate it 
yourself.? Check out a couple videos - not too hard anymore.? There is 
delicate fiber that needs to be in conduit or heavy duty outdoor fiber 
that can run on utility poles or for direct burial.

Brian

On 4/11/2022 3:01 PM, john niolon wrote:
> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached 
> shop building... just a shade too far for cable access? (just under 
> 300 feet of cable)?and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...? two 
> boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box 
> plugs into any other plug on same
> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
> example:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581 
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581>
> thanks
> john
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220411/551c0b82/attachment.htm>

From fishplate at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 04:03:55 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 06:03:55 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8HLP_756YJ_qOY+CFC-3rM+P32=qBYz7ODRjVm8gFV_VGKzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
 <CAJ8HLP_756YJ_qOY+CFC-3rM+P32=qBYz7ODRjVm8gFV_VGKzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CNq6gbcEe=axS_hPhSRCb0dcEax-wzSHCzW36KiNtGAug@mail.gmail.com>

"...I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that
escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend
to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this
summer. "

I know you can't mix medium-voltage and low voltage cables in the same
conduit.  Can you run fiber with the electric service?  Is that a good
idea?

-- Jeff

On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:41 PM Peter Murray <peterwmurray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> John-
>
> How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?
>
> I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place several wherever you need them, and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.
>
> In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power available to increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused where you want it.
>
> When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.
>
> If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in flexible conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. You don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit before you dig.
>
> Happy to talk further!
>
> -Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
>> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
>> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
>>
>> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>>
>> example:
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>>
>> thanks
>> john
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>

From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 08:53:29 2022
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 10:53:29 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CNq6gbcEe=axS_hPhSRCb0dcEax-wzSHCzW36KiNtGAug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
 <CAJ8HLP_756YJ_qOY+CFC-3rM+P32=qBYz7ODRjVm8gFV_VGKzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7CNq6gbcEe=axS_hPhSRCb0dcEax-wzSHCzW36KiNtGAug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP87OGencsY+oU-Qmc5K4FvFm1jng7gbKb500v_6dycY0A@mail.gmail.com>

My read of the relevant section of the NEC (770.133) indicates that where
there are circuits under 1000V, the cable I'm going to pull (non-conductive
optical fiber cable) is allowed. I'll check with my electrician before I
proceed, in any case, as (in the same section) I can't have the fiber in
the electrical panel/box itself.

-Peter

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 6:04 AM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

> "...I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that
> escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend
> to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this
> summer. "
>
> I know you can't mix medium-voltage and low voltage cables in the same
> conduit.  Can you run fiber with the electric service?  Is that a good
> idea?
>
> -- Jeff
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 10:41 PM Peter Murray <peterwmurray at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > John-
> >
> > How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?
> >
> > I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and
> have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about
> 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable
> connection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others
> have pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating
> on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss,
> but a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be
> surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would
> connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your
> router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can get
> versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you can
> adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are also
> network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that the
> network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place several
> wherever you need them, and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I
> like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a
> couple of ports are wicked handy.
> >
> > In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from
> the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about
> 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one
> building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two
> locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus
> the power available to increase your link budget and "burn through" the
> vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty
> cheap on Amazon) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of
> throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield
> better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12
> degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the
> available power is focused where you want it.
> >
> > When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the
> service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now
> - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made
> 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up
> at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the
> ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional
> copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or
> lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna.
> LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.
> >
> > If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet
> maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in
> flexible conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place.
> You don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line -
> goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS
> don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit
> before you dig.
> >
> > Happy to talk further!
> >
> > -Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached
> shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300
> feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> >> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two
> boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs
> into any other plug on same
> >> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
> >>
> >> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
> >>
> >> example:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> john
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220412/1145bdab/attachment.htm>

From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Tue Apr 12 20:12:44 2022
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 19:12:44 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12507.1649715571.2811.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.12507.1649715571.2811.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <21eb7995-5892-2cfc-e5a1-d1083fbb5236@threeboysfarm.com>

You may not get a solid signal at 300 feet away; the boxes will likely 
link up but the bandwidth drops as the distances go up and there is also 
an upper limit on the distance.? Most spec something on the order of 
5000 square feet, which correlates to 75-125 feet give or take.

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com


> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. shop internet (john niolon)
>     
> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
>
> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>
> example:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>
> thanks
> john
>

From tjcora at icloud.com  Tue Apr 12 20:39:56 2022
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Tom Coradeschi)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 22:39:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] cheap. long lasting lighting
In-Reply-To: <20220411.125100.24013.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20220411.125100.24013.0@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <140B38E5-BC1B-4D32-B120-C2D6821A938A@icloud.com>

Matt - redid the lights in my basement shop last year. I bought the direct connect LED tubes (4?), removed the ancient magnetic ballasts, direct wired 120V to the ?tombstones? and was done. The process took about 15 minutes per fixture. The ballasts went in the scrap bucket and brought a pretty penny from my local metals buyer. 

Tom Coradeschi
Tjcora at icloud.com

> On Apr 11, 2022, at 6:21 PM, Matt <mbarre at juno.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I know some of you are pretty well informed on led lighting options, so...
> 
> I have a stand alone wooden bar with a diffused lighting panel in the top.  When it was built over 30 years ago it used a 4' fluorescent bulb.  It was updated at some point to one of the plug in led tubes and it is now time to revisit because it is now out.  I was tempted to simply plug in another led tube but since the power supply has to be over 20 years old perhaps it is time to replace the whole works.  This light stays on 24x7x365 and is more for accent than visibility so it doesn't need to be all that bright.  It isn't that convenient to service since a lot of junk is stored on top of the bar so longevity is nice.  I have a couple of lamp bases on hand, should I just wire them in for 3 traditional led bulbs? or maybe just buy el cheapo 4' led shop light?
> 
> After a long day i the shop I have been know to stop by this particular piece of furniture on occasion...
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 

From jniolon at att.net  Tue Apr 12 20:45:01 2022
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 21:45:01 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <21eb7995-5892-2cfc-e5a1-d1083fbb5236@threeboysfarm.com>
References: <mailman.12507.1649715571.2811.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <21eb7995-5892-2cfc-e5a1-d1083fbb5236@threeboysfarm.com>
Message-ID: <1UbnhAUO2m.DWI9h3JRqTp@johns-desktop>

that seems to be my problem Mark... connects but I could write down what I want before the page loads


----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com>
Reply-To: <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 4/12/2022 9:12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet
________________________________________________________________________________


You may not get a solid signal at 300 feet away; the boxes will likely 
link up but the bandwidth drops as the distances go up and there is also 
an upper limit on the distance.  Most spec something on the order of 
5000 square feet, which correlates to 75-125 feet give or take.

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com


> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. shop internet (john niolon)
>     
> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
>
> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>
> example:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>
> thanks
> john
>
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net

From jniolon at att.net  Tue Apr 12 20:47:54 2022
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 21:47:54 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8HLP_756YJ_qOY+CFC-3rM+P32=qBYz7ODRjVm8gFV_VGKzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
 <CAJ8HLP_756YJ_qOY+CFC-3rM+P32=qBYz7ODRjVm8gFV_VGKzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1UbnhAVRqh.EFwSw7Gk8IT@johns-desktop>

peter...   I want enough to search the net, watch a video on YouTube...just 
general access... no streaming or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dial up 
speeds now  
and some of these suggestions are way above my budget for garage access...   I 
just thought powerline might be a reasonably cheap alternative to cat-5





----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Murray <peterwmurray at gmail.com>
To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>, Shop-Talk List <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet



John-


How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?


I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and have had 
good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 
200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out, you'll 
have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot leg of your 
240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2000Mbit" units 
isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you find they 
work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an available LAN 
ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the shop) in a 
convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an access 
point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in 
the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as well. 
Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you 
can place several wherever you need them, and 
they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.


In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' 
from one building to the other, I think 
you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power available to increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd 
look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon) - 
they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they're 
pretty forgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused where you 
want it.


When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the service run 
in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now - 
didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll 
light it up at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the 
fiber, the ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into 
conventional copper ethernet are cheap, and I 
don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'm 
looking at for the fiber, by the way.


If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet maximum 
(100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in flexible 
conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. You don't 
really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - goodness 
knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS 
don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit before you dig.


Happy to talk further!



-Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)


On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

I'm 
trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop 
building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of 
cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
\even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem 
plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other 
plug on same
breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..   

anyone have any experienced with this type service ??

example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581

thanks
john
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-
talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220412/5d1e276f/attachment-0001.htm>

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 21:29:53 2022
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 22:29:53 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <1UbnhAVRqh.EFwSw7Gk8IT@johns-desktop>
References: <1UbnhAVRqh.EFwSw7Gk8IT@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <B4F5B81A-FA4B-490B-BBE0-4908EC0B7342@gmail.com>



> On Apr 12, 2022, at 21:48, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> peter...   I want enough to search the net, watch a video on YouTube...just general access... no streaming or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dial up speeds now 
> and some of these suggestions are way above my budget for garage access...   I just thought powerline might be a reasonably cheap alternative to cat-5
>  

Try it. If it?s not good enough, return it them and get something better. (Point to point radio would be my next choice.). 



>  
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220412/3f5e2027/attachment.htm>

From tjcora at icloud.com  Wed Apr 13 04:47:00 2022
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Tom Coradeschi)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 06:47:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <1UbnhAVRqh.EFwSw7Gk8IT@johns-desktop>
References: <1UbnhAVRqh.EFwSw7Gk8IT@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <FFBD38A0-8A5D-4D62-A2D5-CD235661342A@icloud.com>

Thought just came to mind. If this is for ?light duty? use, is there anything wrong with (assuming you have decent cellular coverage and the right phone) simply using your phone as a Wi-Fi hot spot? Data usage would be a challenge, depending on what you are paying for?

Tom Coradeschi
Tjcora at icloud.com

> On Apr 12, 2022, at 10:48 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> peter...   I want enough to search the net, watch a video on YouTube...just general access... no streaming or heavy downloads/uploads... I got dial up speeds now 
> and some of these suggestions are way above my budget for garage access...   I just thought powerline might be a reasonably cheap alternative to cat-5
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter Murray <peterwmurray at gmail.com>
> To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>, Shop-Talk List <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Sent: 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet
> John-
> 
> How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?
> 
> I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now, and have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home office about 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a very serviceable connection between the outbuilding and the house (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out, you'll have best luck with them with them both operating on the same hot leg of your 240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on your router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet. You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an access point, perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provide wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units as well. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't operate in pairs - you can place several wherever you need them, and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a couple of ports are wicked handy.
> 
> In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded" from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which yields about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly only 300' from one building to the other, I think you'll not have any trouble linking the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power available to increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on Amazon) - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with 80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a 12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim, but the available power is focused where you want it.
> 
> When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had the service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this summer. I'll light it up at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC connectors on each end of the fiber, the ethernet switches and mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an antenna. LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.
> 
> If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your ethernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6, and I'd put it in flexible conduit, guessing that you don't already have conduit in place. You don't really even need to worry about putting it below the frost line - goodness knows that Cox (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't. That said, I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit before you dig.
> 
> Happy to talk further!
> 
> -Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>> I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
>> \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
>> breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..  
>>  
>> anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>>  
>> example:
>>  
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>>  
>> thanks
>> john
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220413/386c03e7/attachment.htm>

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Wed Apr 13 18:15:28 2022
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:15:28 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop internet
In-Reply-To: <1UbnhAVRqh.EFwSw7Gk8IT@johns-desktop>
References: <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1Ubng1oNWa.CDGQeora3mN@johns-desktop>
 <CAJ8HLP_756YJ_qOY+CFC-3rM+P32=qBYz7ODRjVm8gFV_VGKzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1UbnhAVRqh.EFwSw7Gk8IT@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <9db89675-338f-5114-e721-ccccefcc2ba6@earthlink.net>

If you do end up going with cat-5e, I used this crimper with great 
results when I installed a set of POE security cameras.? Comes with a 
tester to verify the cable.? I had some runs longer than the premade 
cables and bought a box of 500' cat-5e cable.? Wow have cable prices 
jumped in the last year.? I thought I paid about $30 for the cable at 
Home Depot and now it is $72.? It is pretty easy to make your own cables 
if you pull the wire.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078S55WML/


On 4/12/2022 7:47 PM, john niolon wrote:
> peter...//? I want enough to search the net, watch a video on 
> YouTube...just general access... no streaming or heavy 
> downloads/uploads... I got dial up speeds now
> and some of these suggestions are way above my budget for garage 
> access...?? I just thought powerline might be a reasonably cheap 
> alternative to cat-5
>
>     *----- Original Message -----*
>     *From:* Peter Murray <peterwmurray at gmail.com>
>     *To:* john niolon <jniolon at att.net>, Shop-Talk List
>     <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>     *Sent:* 4/11/2022 9:40:56 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] shop internet
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     John-
>
>     How much bandwidth do you want in your shop?
>
>     I have used network-over-powerline adapters for quite a while now,
>     and have had good success with them. I have an outbuilding/home
>     office about 200' from my house, and those adapters provided a
>     very serviceable connection between the outbuilding and the house
>     (about 25Mbit). As others have pointed out, you'll have best luck
>     with them with them both operating on the same hot leg of your
>     240V split-phase power. It can be hit or miss, but a pair of
>     "2000Mbit" units isn't terribly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised
>     in the least if you find they work just fine for you. I would
>     connect one of them to an available LAN ethernet ports (likely on
>     your router) and the other (in the shop) in a convenient outlet.
>     You can get versions that have built in PoE (for an access point,
>     perhaps), or you can adapt another router/AP to simply provide
>     wifi in the shop. There are also network-over-power/AP combo units
>     as well. Don't forget that the network-over-powerline units don't
>     operate in pairs - you can place several wherever you?need them,
>     and they'll act like additional ethernet ports. I like the TP-Link
>     gear, and units with a pass-through power port and a couple of
>     ports are wicked handy.
>
>     In my situation, I do have clear line of sight and have "upgraded"
>     from the network-over-power units to a Ubiquiti mesh link, which
>     yields about 150-200Mbit of actual throughput. If you are truly
>     only 300' from one building to the other, I think you'll not have
>     any trouble linking the two locations using 5GHz wireless. The
>     trees will attenuate, but you can focus the power available to
>     increase your link budget and "burn through" the vegetation. I'd
>     look at a pair of Ubiquiti LiteBeam Gen2 units (pretty cheap on
>     Amazon
>     <https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV?th=1>)
>     - they'll get you somewhere around 250-300Mbit of throughput with
>     80MHz channel usage. Narrower channel usage will yield better
>     reliability if that balance needs to be struck. They have about a
>     12 degree beamwidth, so they're pretty forgiving with your aim,
>     but the available power is focused where you want it.
>
>     When I installed 60A/240V service in my tiny outbuilding, I had
>     the?service run in plastic conduit - but - for reasons that escape
>     me right now - didn't run any fiber. I regret that, and intend to
>     order a pre-made 6-strand OS3 fiber cable and pull it through this
>     summer. I'll light it up at 1Gbit (for the moment). With LC
>     connectors on each end of the fiber, the ethernet switches and
>     mini-GBIC units needed to turn it into conventional copper
>     ethernet are cheap, and I don't worry about my ham radio RF or
>     lightning strikes acting on a big copper ethernet line like an
>     antenna. LANShack is who I'm looking at for the fiber, by the way.
>
>     If you're not averse to running a copper cable, 330' is your
>     ethernet maximum (100m). If you go that route, I'd go with Cat6,
>     and I'd put it in flexible conduit,?guessing that you don't
>     already have conduit in place. You don't really even need to worry
>     about putting it below the frost line - goodness knows that Cox
>     (our local coax cable company) and Verizon FiOS don't. That said,
>     I would suggest calling your local utility marking outfit before
>     you dig.
>
>     Happy to talk further!
>
>     -Peter (independent IT guy, radio amateur)
>
>     On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 6:02 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>
>         I'm trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my
>         unattached shop building... just a shade too far for cable
>         access (just under 300 feet of cable)?and too many obstacles
>         for wireless
>         \even with an extender... looking at powerline units...? two
>         boxes...modem plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v
>         plug...other box plugs into any other plug on same
>         breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..
>         anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
>         example:
>         https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581
>         <https://www.ebay.com/itm/275159414599?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D238115%26meid%3D9d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D265638365047%26itm%3D275159414599%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DItemStripV101HighAdFeeWithCompV3Ranker%26brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2751594145999d4234b8cade433b81c8265e84d81de8%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAABAMwaiCkD4Jz%252FAA1ytZhxVAzuCsqdmLW9ojO6k7lKEs76vKeVo8baO64duoLIjpcgMP90FFiVgMKbdjh7IgvEI%252BQJgW4gEnxkDA5yYEh7wlEj%252FSuKUyH0RJbKQh7dzMgt%252BJRsfe1bI7Jq%252BzI1fyQLcD4HuL%252FMQUHFh10KutrC3t3VJZoR0sVMt6IDKUo7JSyE07Tq52Ka8iPzC9czJ30Nj43ezZTHfxDa3MVT0chETDN2ahqtYKn1MU6wPLlb5sYl6h8pA6VP72FCgmJMYEVr0A8gmzhmomEh75XqFQfAefFiX4hPo%252BiZmySE8%252Bh4nUWX3cDN7k4ixdEcXiYyvMaWhsA%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=1186426581>
>         thanks
>         john
>         _______________________________________________
>
>         Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>         Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>         Suggested annual donation? $12.96
>         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>         http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>         Unsubscribe/Manage:
>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220413/67ed6d16/attachment.htm>

From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 10:23:03 2022
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:23:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] OEM Spark Plugs
In-Reply-To: <51C1FBED-FED7-45AA-AA0F-43246E63E845@gmail.com>
References: <51C1FBED-FED7-45AA-AA0F-43246E63E845@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <302370F5-4BCA-4BBF-988C-EEE8BC693F88@gmail.com>

It has been quite a while since I asked this question but I finally got around to putting in the new plugs yesterday and wanted to share my thoughts now that I have some experience. 

The bottom line is consistent with the general consensus of the group: I could not see any difference between the original plugs and the new ones. Here are a couple of photos:



We?re on the road right now (my wife is driving) and there is no discernible difference that I can feel.

So, to confirm the group?s answer to my original question for anyone else who might be curious, I?d say there is no reason to pay the ridiculous OEM markup for the exact same part.  

Jim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?My 2017 Honda Ridgeline is approaching its 105,000 mile service, which is a big one.  New timing belt is the main event, but Honda also recommends new spark plugs.  I did the timing belt on my old Ridgeline at 220,000 (it?s 3rd belt) but it was a PITA and I don?t think I want to take any chances on a newer, more valuable vehicle.  Spark plugs are a different story and the dealer gets over $300 to do those!
> 
> The reason changing plugs is so expensive is Honda?s price for the plugs themselves.  They list at $55 each, although you can get them discounted for the low, low price of about $40 each if you shop around.  https://www.hondapartsconnection.com/oem-parts/honda-spark-plug-dilzkr7b11g-ngk-12290r9pa01  But, here is where it gets interesting: The owner?s manual lists the plugs as NGK DILZKR7B11G, a number you can clearly see on the Honda box in the above link.  NGK lists that plug as $18 each (https://www.ngk.com/ngk-95350-dilzkr7b11g-laser-iridium-spark-plug) and you can find them at Rock Auto for about $12.
> 
> Ridgeline owners seem to be divided as to whether the plugs in the NGK box are any different from the ones in the Honda box.  I trust this group more than fellow Ridgeline owners.  What do you guys say?  Are the plugs in the Honda box likely to be different and worth an extra $170?
> 
> Jim
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/41f1e714/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image0.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 21224 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/41f1e714/attachment-0003.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image1.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23839 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/41f1e714/attachment-0004.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image2.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23262 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/41f1e714/attachment-0005.jpeg>

From patintexas at icloud.com  Sat Apr 16 10:30:44 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 11:30:44 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] OEM Spark Plugs
In-Reply-To: <302370F5-4BCA-4BBF-988C-EEE8BC693F88@gmail.com>
References: <302370F5-4BCA-4BBF-988C-EEE8BC693F88@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6F620C0B-A69B-4F8F-9D84-24CBC237E513@icloud.com>

I was just thinking about this thread the other day! 

I?ve never seen these plugs before. I just pulled the plugs on my 06 caravan & thought IT had long plugs. Must be an odd feeling when you unscrewed them. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 16, 2022, at 11:25 AM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:

?It has been quite a while since I asked this question but I finally got around to putting in the new plugs yesterday and wanted to share my thoughts now that I have some experience. 

The bottom line is consistent with the general consensus of the group: I could not see any difference between the original plugs and the new ones. Here are a couple of photos:



We?re on the road right now (my wife is driving) and there is no discernible difference that I can feel.

So, to confirm the group?s answer to my original question for anyone else who might be curious, I?d say there is no reason to pay the ridiculous OEM markup for the exact same part.  

Jim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 21, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?My 2017 Honda Ridgeline is approaching its 105,000 mile service, which is a big one.  New timing belt is the main event, but Honda also recommends new spark plugs.  I did the timing belt on my old Ridgeline at 220,000 (it?s 3rd belt) but it was a PITA and I don?t think I want to take any chances on a newer, more valuable vehicle.  Spark plugs are a different story and the dealer gets over $300 to do those!
> 
> The reason changing plugs is so expensive is Honda?s price for the plugs themselves.  They list at $55 each, although you can get them discounted for the low, low price of about $40 each if you shop around.  https://www.hondapartsconnection.com/oem-parts/honda-spark-plug-dilzkr7b11g-ngk-12290r9pa01  But, here is where it gets interesting: The owner?s manual lists the plugs as NGK DILZKR7B11G, a number you can clearly see on the Honda box in the above link.  NGK lists that plug as $18 each (https://www.ngk.com/ngk-95350-dilzkr7b11g-laser-iridium-spark-plug) and you can find them at Rock Auto for about $12.
> 
> Ridgeline owners seem to be divided as to whether the plugs in the NGK box are any different from the ones in the Honda box.  I trust this group more than fellow Ridgeline owners.  What do you guys say?  Are the plugs in the Honda box likely to be different and worth an extra $170?
> 
> Jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/20b8d93e/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image0.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 21224 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/20b8d93e/attachment-0003.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image1.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23839 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/20b8d93e/attachment-0004.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image2.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23262 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/20b8d93e/attachment-0005.jpeg>

From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 10:36:30 2022
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:36:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] OEM Spark Plugs
In-Reply-To: <6F620C0B-A69B-4F8F-9D84-24CBC237E513@icloud.com>
References: <6F620C0B-A69B-4F8F-9D84-24CBC237E513@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <94B9B318-1965-480B-B788-6B853B24269E@gmail.com>

Good observation!  It was disconcerting until I got used to it and in the beginning kept pulling the socket off too soon.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 16, 2022, at 12:30 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I was just thinking about this thread the other day! 
> 
> I?ve never seen these plugs before. I just pulled the plugs on my 06 caravan & thought IT had long plugs. Must be an odd feeling when you unscrewed them. 
> 
> Peace,
> Pat
> 
> Pat Horne 
> We support Habitat for Humanity
> 
> 
> On Apr 16, 2022, at 11:25 AM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?It has been quite a while since I asked this question but I finally got around to putting in the new plugs yesterday and wanted to share my thoughts now that I have some experience. 
> 
> The bottom line is consistent with the general consensus of the group: I could not see any difference between the original plugs and the new ones. Here are a couple of photos:
> 
> 
> 
> We?re on the road right now (my wife is driving) and there is no discernible difference that I can feel.
> 
> So, to confirm the group?s answer to my original question for anyone else who might be curious, I?d say there is no reason to pay the ridiculous OEM markup for the exact same part.  
> 
> Jim
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?My 2017 Honda Ridgeline is approaching its 105,000 mile service, which is a big one.  New timing belt is the main event, but Honda also recommends new spark plugs.  I did the timing belt on my old Ridgeline at 220,000 (it?s 3rd belt) but it was a PITA and I don?t think I want to take any chances on a newer, more valuable vehicle.  Spark plugs are a different story and the dealer gets over $300 to do those!
>> 
>> The reason changing plugs is so expensive is Honda?s price for the plugs themselves.  They list at $55 each, although you can get them discounted for the low, low price of about $40 each if you shop around.  https://www.hondapartsconnection.com/oem-parts/honda-spark-plug-dilzkr7b11g-ngk-12290r9pa01  But, here is where it gets interesting: The owner?s manual lists the plugs as NGK DILZKR7B11G, a number you can clearly see on the Honda box in the above link.  NGK lists that plug as $18 each (https://www.ngk.com/ngk-95350-dilzkr7b11g-laser-iridium-spark-plug) and you can find them at Rock Auto for about $12.
>> 
>> Ridgeline owners seem to be divided as to whether the plugs in the NGK box are any different from the ones in the Honda box.  I trust this group more than fellow Ridgeline owners.  What do you guys say?  Are the plugs in the Honda box likely to be different and worth an extra $170?
>> 
>> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/6d9a1943/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image0.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 21224 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/6d9a1943/attachment-0003.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image1.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23839 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/6d9a1943/attachment-0004.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image2.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23262 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/6d9a1943/attachment-0005.jpeg>

From bspidell at comcast.net  Sat Apr 16 13:27:03 2022
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:27:03 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] OEM Spark Plugs
In-Reply-To: <6F620C0B-A69B-4F8F-9D84-24CBC237E513@icloud.com>
References: <302370F5-4BCA-4BBF-988C-EEE8BC693F88@gmail.com>
 <6F620C0B-A69B-4F8F-9D84-24CBC237E513@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <771776b4-e21b-e27c-be18-e43fa3c1e67b@comcast.net>

Those 'long' plugs are notorious, at least in some Ford V8 engines. The 
long threaded part is long so the plug tip will reach the combustion 
chamber in thick OHC engine heads. Those--the Ford plugs--are made in 
two parts, and are known to separate when being removed. Much hilarity 
ensues.

On 4/16/2022 9:30 AM, Pat Horne wrote:
> I was just thinking about this thread the other day!
>
> I?ve never seen these plugs before. I just pulled the plugs on my 06 
> caravan & thought IT had long plugs. Must be an odd feeling when you 
> unscrewed them.
>
> Peace,
> Pat
>
> Pat Horne
> We support Habitat for Humanity
>
>
> On Apr 16, 2022, at 11:25 AM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ? It has been quite a while since I asked this question but I finally 
> got around to putting in the new plugs yesterday and wanted to share 
> my thoughts now that I have some experience.
>
> The bottom line is consistent with the general consensus of the group: 
> I could not see any difference between the original plugs and the new 
> ones. Here are a couple of photos:
>
> image0.jpegimage1.jpegimage2.jpeg
>
> We?re on the road right now (my wife is driving) and there is no 
> discernible difference that I can feel.
>
> So, to confirm the group?s answer to my original question for anyone 
> else who might be curious, I?d say there is no reason to pay the 
> ridiculous OEM markup for the exact same part.
>
> Jim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?My 2017 Honda Ridgeline is approaching its 105,000 mile service, 
>> which is a big one. ?New timing belt is the main event, but Honda 
>> also recommends new spark plugs. ?I did the timing belt on my old 
>> Ridgeline at 220,000 (it?s 3rd belt) but it was a PITA and I don?t 
>> think I want to take any chances on a newer, more valuable vehicle. 
>> ?Spark plugs are a different story and the dealer gets over $300 to 
>> do those!
>>
>> The reason changing plugs is so expensive is Honda?s price for the 
>> plugs themselves. ?They list at $55 _each_, although you can get them 
>> discounted for the low, low price of about $40 each if you shop 
>> around. 
>> https://www.hondapartsconnection.com/oem-parts/honda-spark-plug-dilzkr7b11g-ngk-12290r9pa01 
>> ?But, here is where it gets interesting: The owner?s manual lists the 
>> plugs as NGK DILZKR7B11G, a number you can clearly see on the Honda 
>> box in the above link. ?NGK lists that plug as $18 each 
>> (https://www.ngk.com/ngk-95350-dilzkr7b11g-laser-iridium-spark-plug) 
>> and you can find them at Rock Auto for about $12.
>>
>> Ridgeline owners seem to be divided as to whether the plugs in the 
>> NGK box are any different from the ones in the Honda box. ?I trust 
>> this group more than fellow Ridgeline owners. ?What do you guys say? 
>> ?Are the plugs in the Honda box likely to be different and worth an 
>> extra $170?
>>
>> Jim
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/63b230d8/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image0.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 21224 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/63b230d8/attachment-0003.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image1.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23839 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/63b230d8/attachment-0004.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image2.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 23262 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220416/63b230d8/attachment-0005.jpeg>

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 16:04:02 2022
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:04:02 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
Message-ID: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>

The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
(when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Apr 18 16:38:23 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 17:38:23 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37EC2608-B982-4BD0-AA99-37FE3B755BCD@icloud.com>

Great story. I wish our Habitat Restore got that kind of thing in. 

Estate sales can be great places to find nostalgia. My dad was at one about 20 years back & noticed something behind the check out that looked a bit like a pepper mill. He asked what it was & the person said they didn?t know but thought it was a kid?s toy. They sold it to him for $25 including the case. It was a Curta calculator. Sold it on eBay for $900 they are going for over $2000 now!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 18, 2022, at 5:05 PM, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

?The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
(when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 17:44:45 2022
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 16:44:45 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgb-E5qN2=CzSrpm7_MXed_Gszwn+KWbWH7KYCEnZYBjrg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David,

Yes, I agree with you completely.

I have a 1972 BSA B50SS that I bought new in '72 when I was a high school
senior, and when I ride it out on the street now, it draws attention
because it is seen as an antique (a single cylinder, air cooled, a kick
starter, it is loud and vibrates, etc.).

Then I realized that my 2001 Sportster is over 21 years old now, and has a
carburetor and no electronic engine controls, no ABS, and it is seen as an
ancient and curious artifact.

I also work at a university where the majority of the students now were
born post 911, and that highly impactful event now is seen as an ancient
historical moment like WWI or the assination of JFK.

Time moves forward gradually, but then at moments you realize that the
boots you are wearing  are 25 years old, and older than the person to
whom you are speaking.

I just had an epiphany when I realized that more time had transpired since
I graduated from high school than had transpired from the end of WW1 and
when I had graduated from high school. When I was a HS student, I used to
think WWI was a century before with biplanes and infantry warfare...

I think it means that we are fortunate to have lived long enough so that
although much of what we know may no longer be meaningful to subsequent
generations, it still is meaningful to us.

I am still tearing around on that '72 BSA B50SS, even if twenty-somethings
do not understand it.  :-)

Here are a couple photos of the "antique":
https://gopro.com/v/JbB9XPeDdg6kK
https://gopro.com/v/7a7zwvLy4KD8e

Here is a video of it running up a hill:
https://gopro.com/v/rDpnZ2GVK1w9E

best,

doug

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:05 PM David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

> The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
> very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
> They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
> of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
> (when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
> instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
> The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
> tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
> attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
> distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
> cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.
>
> --
> David Scheidt
> dmscheidt at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220418/a49da842/attachment.htm>

From JIBrooks at live.com  Mon Apr 18 17:45:08 2022
From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:45:08 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <37EC2608-B982-4BD0-AA99-37FE3B755BCD@icloud.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37EC2608-B982-4BD0-AA99-37FE3B755BCD@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <PH0PR05MB820850E091ACCB12BC962937A8F39@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Pat,

I have a friend who supplements his income by visiting the local Salvation Army, Deseret Store, etc., at the time when they put out the new stuff.  He then resell the stuff he just bought on ebay on a regular basis usually making an 2-10x markup.  

If you have some niche product knowledge, it can be a very profitable.

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Pat Horne
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 3:38 PM
To: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] changing times...

Great story. I wish our Habitat Restore got that kind of thing in. 

Estate sales can be great places to find nostalgia. My dad was at one about 20 years back & noticed something behind the check out that looked a bit like a pepper mill. He asked what it was & the person said they didn?t know but thought it was a kid?s toy. They sold it to him for $25 including the case. It was a Curta calculator. Sold it on eBay for $900 they are going for over $2000 now!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 18, 2022, at 5:05 PM, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

?The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
(when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks at live.com


From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 17:47:49 2022
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 16:47:49 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <CAG1pxgb-E5qN2=CzSrpm7_MXed_Gszwn+KWbWH7KYCEnZYBjrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG1pxgb-E5qN2=CzSrpm7_MXed_Gszwn+KWbWH7KYCEnZYBjrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgahKVkaoEbHDz3Km6=XehgeSjRDnp+YY8vW7FCYJU8mqg@mail.gmail.com>

I meant to say that the video is much more enjoyable if you zoom it out to
full screen and turn-up the volume loud.  You might find yourself leaning
into the curves (I find myself doing it). :-)

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:44 PM old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Yes, I agree with you completely.
>
> I have a 1972 BSA B50SS that I bought new in '72 when I was a high school
> senior, and when I ride it out on the street now, it draws attention
> because it is seen as an antique (a single cylinder, air cooled, a kick
> starter, it is loud and vibrates, etc.).
>
> Then I realized that my 2001 Sportster is over 21 years old now, and has a
> carburetor and no electronic engine controls, no ABS, and it is seen as an
> ancient and curious artifact.
>
> I also work at a university where the majority of the students now were
> born post 911, and that highly impactful event now is seen as an ancient
> historical moment like WWI or the assination of JFK.
>
> Time moves forward gradually, but then at moments you realize that the
> boots you are wearing  are 25 years old, and older than the person to
> whom you are speaking.
>
> I just had an epiphany when I realized that more time had transpired since
> I graduated from high school than had transpired from the end of WW1 and
> when I had graduated from high school. When I was a HS student, I used to
> think WWI was a century before with biplanes and infantry warfare...
>
> I think it means that we are fortunate to have lived long enough so that
> although much of what we know may no longer be meaningful to subsequent
> generations, it still is meaningful to us.
>
> I am still tearing around on that '72 BSA B50SS, even if twenty-somethings
> do not understand it.  :-)
>
> Here are a couple photos of the "antique":
> https://gopro.com/v/JbB9XPeDdg6kK
> https://gopro.com/v/7a7zwvLy4KD8e
>
> Here is a video of it running up a hill:
> https://gopro.com/v/rDpnZ2GVK1w9E
>
> best,
>
> doug
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:05 PM David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
>> very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
>> They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
>> of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
>> (when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
>> instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
>> The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
>> tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
>> attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
>> distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
>> cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.
>>
>> --
>> David Scheidt
>> dmscheidt at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220418/e25ae499/attachment-0001.htm>

From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Apr 18 18:00:16 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 19:00:16 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR05MB820850E091ACCB12BC962937A8F39@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <PH0PR05MB820850E091ACCB12BC962937A8F39@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <179F20DA-FC50-4435-8F9F-51C41FE55350@icloud.com>

I?m getting old, turning 75 this year. About 15 years ago I went to an auction locally at a shop where a guy restored tube radios. He had stuff from Atwater Kent?s into the late 50s. I bought a bunch of analog bench meters not realizing that there wasn?t much of a market for them. I?d used this kind of test gear when I started doing TV repair in the mid 60s. I was finally able to sell them on eBay but it took some time. I?ll bet most ended up on display rather than being used. 

On the bright side, after digital cameras took over, all my 1960s Nikon gear was worthless & was just gathering dust. My granddaughter loved collecting old photo equipment so I gave her my 2 bodies, 4 lenses & a light meter. Turns out she had been buying film & using this gear! Not all history is lost on the young. 

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 18, 2022, at 6:46 PM, Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com> wrote:

?Pat,

I have a friend who supplements his income by visiting the local Salvation Army, Deseret Store, etc., at the time when they put out the new stuff.  He then resell the stuff he just bought on ebay on a regular basis usually making an 2-10x markup.  

If you have some niche product knowledge, it can be a very profitable.

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Pat Horne
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 3:38 PM
To: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] changing times...

Great story. I wish our Habitat Restore got that kind of thing in. 

Estate sales can be great places to find nostalgia. My dad was at one about 20 years back & noticed something behind the check out that looked a bit like a pepper mill. He asked what it was & the person said they didn?t know but thought it was a kid?s toy. They sold it to him for $25 including the case. It was a Curta calculator. Sold it on eBay for $900 they are going for over $2000 now!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 18, 2022, at 5:05 PM, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

?The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
(when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks at live.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From neiljsherry at talktalk.net  Tue Apr 19 01:27:52 2022
From: neiljsherry at talktalk.net (neiljsherry at talktalk.net)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:27:52 +0100
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR05MB820850E091ACCB12BC962937A8F39@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37EC2608-B982-4BD0-AA99-37FE3B755BCD@icloud.com>
 <PH0PR05MB820850E091ACCB12BC962937A8F39@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <C0F6AAD6-F54B-482C-BACF-AD29B709E683@talktalk.net>

So basically ripping off a charity?

On 19 April 2022 00:45:08 BST, Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com> wrote:
>Pat,
>
>I have a friend who supplements his income by visiting the local Salvation Army, Deseret Store, etc., at the time when they put out the new stuff.  He then resell the stuff he just bought on ebay on a regular basis usually making an 2-10x markup.  
>
>If you have some niche product knowledge, it can be a very profitable.
>
>Jack 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Pat Horne
>Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 3:38 PM
>To: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
>Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] changing times...
>
>Great story. I wish our Habitat Restore got that kind of thing in. 
>
>Estate sales can be great places to find nostalgia. My dad was at one about 20 years back & noticed something behind the check out that looked a bit like a pepper mill. He asked what it was & the person said they didn?t know but thought it was a kid?s toy. They sold it to him for $25 including the case. It was a Curta calculator. Sold it on eBay for $900 they are going for over $2000 now!
>
>Peace,
>Pat
>
>Pat Horne 
>We support Habitat for Humanity
>
>
>On Apr 18, 2022, at 5:05 PM, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>?The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
>very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
>They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
>of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
>(when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
>instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
>The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
>tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
>attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
>distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
>cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.
>
>-- 
>David Scheidt
>dmscheidt at gmail.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks at live.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/neiljsherry at talktalk.net
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220419/c0c4b9de/attachment.htm>

From dhlocker at protonmail.com  Tue Apr 19 03:40:11 2022
From: dhlocker at protonmail.com (Donald H Locker)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:40:11 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <C0F6AAD6-F54B-482C-BACF-AD29B709E683@talktalk.net>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37EC2608-B982-4BD0-AA99-37FE3B755BCD@icloud.com>
 <PH0PR05MB820850E091ACCB12BC962937A8F39@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0F6AAD6-F54B-482C-BACF-AD29B709E683@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <5d1da0c2-6dff-c6ff-273a-f6185cc9dbfd@protonmail.com>

The friend is definitely not "ripping off" the charity. The charity
doesn't have time, knowledge, or money to sell that gear; they would
never recoup the costs necessary to bring in sufficient employees to vet
and market the occasional "gems" that show up at random times in random
categories.

The friend's purchase of gear from the charity fills the charity's
coffers at low cost to the charity. The friend adds their knowledge and
skill to re-market the items and make a little profit as well. Both win.

Donald.

On 2022-04-19 03:27, neiljsherry at talktalk.net wrote:
> So basically ripping off a charity?
>
> On 19 April 2022 00:45:08 BST, Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com> wrote:
>
>     Pat,
>
>     I have a friend who supplements his income by visiting the local Salvation Army, Deseret Store, etc., at the time when they put out the new stuff.  He then resell the stuff he just bought on ebay on a regular basis usually making an 2-10x markup.
>
>     If you have some niche product knowledge, it can be a very profitable.
>
>     Jack
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Pat Horne
>     Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 3:38 PM
>     To: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
>     Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>     Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] changing times...
>
>     Great story. I wish our Habitat Restore got that kind of thing in.
>
>     Estate sales can be great places to find nostalgia. My dad was at one about 20 years back & noticed something behind the check out that looked a bit like a pepper mill. He asked what it was & the person said they didn?t know but thought it was a kid?s toy. They sold it to him for $25 including the case. It was a Curta calculator. Sold it on eBay for $900 they are going for over $2000 now!
>
>     Peace,
>     Pat
>
>     Pat Horne
>     We support Habitat for Humanity
>
>
>     On Apr 18, 2022, at 5:05 PM, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     ?The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
>     very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
>     They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
>     of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
>     (when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
>     instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
>     The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
>     tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
>     attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
>     distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
>     cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.
>
>     --
>     David Scheidt
>     dmscheidt at gmail.com



From jibrooks at live.com  Tue Apr 19 07:21:20 2022
From: jibrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 13:21:20 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <5d1da0c2-6dff-c6ff-273a-f6185cc9dbfd@protonmail.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37EC2608-B982-4BD0-AA99-37FE3B755BCD@icloud.com>
 <PH0PR05MB820850E091ACCB12BC962937A8F39@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0F6AAD6-F54B-482C-BACF-AD29B709E683@talktalk.net>
 <5d1da0c2-6dff-c6ff-273a-f6185cc9dbfd@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <PH0PR05MB8208485570C7A7A7489B2D1DA8F29@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Exactly Donald!

The charities are getting wiser each year, leaving less on the table and cutting into his "profitablity" but he also collects, so it's a fun passtime and game for him.

Jack

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Donald H Locker <dhlocker at protonmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 2:40 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] changing times...

The friend is definitely not "ripping off" the charity. The charity
doesn't have time, knowledge, or money to sell that gear; they would
never recoup the costs necessary to bring in sufficient employees to vet
and market the occasional "gems" that show up at random times in random
categories.

The friend's purchase of gear from the charity fills the charity's
coffers at low cost to the charity. The friend adds their knowledge and
skill to re-market the items and make a little profit as well. Both win.

Donald.

On 2022-04-19 03:27, neiljsherry at talktalk.net wrote:
> So basically ripping off a charity?
>
> On 19 April 2022 00:45:08 BST, Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com> wrote:
>
>     Pat,
>
>     I have a friend who supplements his income by visiting the local Salvation Army, Deseret Store, etc., at the time when they put out the new stuff.  He then resell the stuff he just bought on ebay on a regular basis usually making an 2-10x markup.
>
>     If you have some niche product knowledge, it can be a very profitable.
>
>     Jack
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Pat Horne
>     Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 3:38 PM
>     To: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
>     Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>     Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] changing times...
>
>     Great story. I wish our Habitat Restore got that kind of thing in.
>
>     Estate sales can be great places to find nostalgia. My dad was at one about 20 years back & noticed something behind the check out that looked a bit like a pepper mill. He asked what it was & the person said they didn?t know but thought it was a kid?s toy. They sold it to him for $25 including the case. It was a Curta calculator. Sold it on eBay for $900 they are going for over $2000 now!
>
>     Peace,
>     Pat
>
>     Pat Horne
>     We support Habitat for Humanity
>
>
>     On Apr 18, 2022, at 5:05 PM, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     ?The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
>     very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
>     They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
>     of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
>     (when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
>     instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
>     The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
>     tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
>     attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
>     distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
>     cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.
>
>     --
>     David Scheidt
>     dmscheidt at gmail.com


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks at live.com


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220419/c8029ce3/attachment-0001.htm>

From rkg at teleport.com  Tue Apr 19 10:59:15 2022
From: rkg at teleport.com (Richard George)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:59:15 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <5d1da0c2-6dff-c6ff-273a-f6185cc9dbfd@protonmail.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <37EC2608-B982-4BD0-AA99-37FE3B755BCD@icloud.com>
 <PH0PR05MB820850E091ACCB12BC962937A8F39@PH0PR05MB8208.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <C0F6AAD6-F54B-482C-BACF-AD29B709E683@talktalk.net>
 <5d1da0c2-6dff-c6ff-273a-f6185cc9dbfd@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <7c990b26-ac3b-2841-79ae-fcf1090bddfd@teleport.com>

There's a whole segment of society that both makes their living and 
supplement other income by 'flipping' stuff found for sale through these 
charity resellers,garage sales, craigslist, etc. while some (notably the 
Goodwill) are getting better at identifying/shifting the more valuable 
items to other sales channels to realize more money from them, most are 
happy to do their best on valuation and just receive the constant income 
from sales through their outlets.

It used to be amusing to drive by one of the local Goodwills when they 
first open in the morning - the parking lot was pretty much always full 
of late model cars - some days it looked like a Mercedes or BMW 
dealership...

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)


On 4/19/2022 2:40 AM, Donald H Locker wrote:
> The friend is definitely not "ripping off" the charity. The charity
> doesn't have time, knowledge, or money to sell that gear; they would
> never recoup the costs necessary to bring in sufficient employees to vet
> and market the occasional "gems" that show up at random times in random
> categories.
>
> The friend's purchase of gear from the charity fills the charity's
> coffers at low cost to the charity. The friend adds their knowledge and
> skill to re-market the items and make a little profit as well. Both win.
>
> Donald.
>
> On 2022-04-19 03:27, neiljsherry at talktalk.net wrote:
>> So basically ripping off a charity?
>>
>> On 19 April 2022 00:45:08 BST, Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com> wrote:
>>
>>      Pat,
>>
>>      I have a friend who supplements his income by visiting the local Salvation Army, Deseret Store, etc., at the time when they put out the new stuff.  He then resell the stuff he just bought on ebay on a regular basis usually making an 2-10x markup.
>>
>>      If you have some niche product knowledge, it can be a very profitable.
>>
>>      Jack
>>
>>      -----Original Message-----
>>      From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Pat Horne
>>      Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 3:38 PM
>>      To: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
>>      Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>>      Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] changing times...
>>
>>      Great story. I wish our Habitat Restore got that kind of thing in.
>>
>>      Estate sales can be great places to find nostalgia. My dad was at one about 20 years back & noticed something behind the check out that looked a bit like a pepper mill. He asked what it was & the person said they didn?t know but thought it was a kid?s toy. They sold it to him for $25 including the case. It was a Curta calculator. Sold it on eBay for $900 they are going for over $2000 now!
>>
>>      Peace,
>>      Pat
>>
>>      Pat Horne
>>      We support Habitat for Humanity
>>
>>
>>      On Apr 18, 2022, at 5:05 PM, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>      ?The other day, I was at my local habitat restore, browsing tools. It's
>>      very close to me, I pop in once a week or two, to look.
>>      They clearly have gotten the estate of an old car guy, as various bits
>>      of old test equipment and speciality automotive tools have been there
>>      (when they get a bunch of stuff like that, they tend to parcel it out,
>>      instead of putting it all out at once) over the last couple months.
>>      The other day, there was a twenty something year old looking at a
>>      tachometer/dwell engine analyzer.   he asked if I knew what it was.  I
>>      attempted to explain.  I'm pretty sure he had no idea what a
>>      distributor was, and the idea of points baffled him.   I'd said old
>>      cars had them, he said 'like from the 80s?'.
>>
>>      --
>>      David Scheidt
>>      dmscheidt at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rkg at teleport.com
>

From jniolon at att.net  Wed Apr 20 12:37:58 2022
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 13:37:58 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: shop internet  update
References: <1UbnpoQmZf.7ELvZfu4tCl.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1UbnpoQmZf.7ELvZfu4tCl@johns-desktop>

went with some power line  units from d-link ( DHP-309AV )  and they worked 
great  
 
much better than my looooong Ethernet cable.   cat-5 specs were 10mbps up  and 
7.6 mbps down   
that's on a 50 down and 5 up U-verse network 
 
the d-link gave me 10mbps up and 20 mbps down...?  with a red (good) data rate blinking... don't 
know how to get it to yellow or green... power line links thru a 75 ft of #14 
wire to a 15amp breaker in a 200 amp service
thru a 100 amp circuit breaker thru 100 ft of cable to a 100 amp sub panel and 
15 amp breaker and 25 feet of #12.  
I'm satisfied with that for intermittent use in shop...
 
john
 
----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 4/11/2022 5:01:45 PM
Subject: shop internet



I'm 
trying to get some 'reliable' internet service to my unattached shop 
building... just a shade too far for cable access  (just under 300 feet of 
cable) and too many obstacles for wireless
\even with an extender... looking at powerline units...  two boxes...modem 
plugs into one and it plugs into 120 v plug...other box plugs into any other 
plug on same
breaker box and the laptop plugs into it with cat-5-cable..   
 
anyone have any experienced with this type service ??
 
example:
 
thanks
john
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220420/9c92e7af/attachment.htm>

From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Apr 20 21:30:48 2022
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 21:30:48 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a52a827-7911-2f7b-b34c-fbdf29158d8c@bradakis.com>


I wish I knew where this came from.? Have no idea who the author might 
be, sad to say.

mjb.

============

As I watch the Japanese crotch-rockets blasting the circuits,
I am suffused with a distilled sense of wonder, and I marvel;
these men and women are so skilled, perfect machines riding on
perfect machines.? Their bikes are precision instruments built by
precision instruments, sold in their multitude to the techno-dazed.

About ten years ago, I was out earholing on a norton-racer-road in
coastal Marin county (north of San Francisco) on my '75 Commando.
Rolled up to a stop sign.? A guy on an old 500cc BSA thumper came
around the corner facing me, leaned through the corner, dialed up
the wick, and thumped on up the hill.? I shut nort down to listen
to the sound of that long-stroke single haul that hill.? I was
thrilled; I could feel the sound through the soles of my boots.
All these years later, when I remember that sound, that fine sound,
I choke, and tears fill my eyes.? As that quiet thump, thump,
thump, faded up the hill, me and nort sat and thought of dinosaurs.
It was a good day to think about dinosaurs, one of those crisp,
perfect Marin autumn days.? Back then, me and my dinosaur could
still swat the Japanese flies buzzing around the hills, those
primordial crotch-rockets, awesome machines that have come to be
so strong, strong enough to eat me and nort for breakfast.

These ten years gone, I'm now flogging that British oil-bath around
the Rockies.? But the king is dead (long live the king!), and
I'm the dinosaur now, breathing the last breath of extinction;
fading quietly, thump, thump, thump up that hill.? But I wonder,
where went the soul, where went the art, where went the heart?


From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 07:04:40 2022
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 06:04:40 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <4a52a827-7911-2f7b-b34c-fbdf29158d8c@bradakis.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <4a52a827-7911-2f7b-b34c-fbdf29158d8c@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgYiO3cY-6pDV53tk80r1NhoEoSUwZcPQH8ojySO0pBxhA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thank you, a poignant and well written piece for those of us who are
getting older...

Times pass, but with our shops, our tools, and our knowledge, we can keep
these old British bikes, or old Harleys running as well if not better than
they did 50 or 60 years ago. I have my 50 year old BSA Thumper that I
posted the photos and video of, but I also have a 2013 Aprillia 1000cc V4
with all of the modern electronic components. I still ride both of them.
They both are very good at what they do, but I have been imprinted on the
BSA.

In the spirit of shop talk, over the last 50 years that I have owned the
BSA, I have used my tools, knowledge and workshops to increase the
displacement to 600cc, ported the head, installed larger diameter exhaust,
larger valves, a larger 1000 series Amal carburetor, a Weber racing cam,
electronic ignition, modified the dry sump oil-in-frame supply to dual feed
to better circulate and cool the oil, fabricated and a routed pressure-fed
oil line to the rockers to better oil and cool the valve gear, installed a
full-flow oil filter on the oil return circuit, higher voltage ignition
coil, solid state electrical rectification and regulation, improved clutch
plates and stronger clutch springs to withstand the increased power, modern
brake linings arced to the drums to be able to stop the bike at high speed
(not quite as good as dual front disc brakes, but I can lock the front
wheel if I try), modern Avon tires that grip the road and handle extremely
well (deep lean angles), rewired the entire electrical harness with
vibration-proof connectors and larger gauge wire with abrasion-resistant
vinyl insulation, running Motul 10w60 double ester synthetic oil in the
engine, synthetic gear lube in the transmission, etc.  It is not just a hot
rod, it has much improved lubrication, electrical, and braking systems now.

Although this bike is 50 years old, it runs stronger and is more reliable
now than it was from the factory. It can run with the modern sport bikes on
the twisty roads you saw in the video.

Old British motorcycles potentially are the ideal "vehicle" for us to
exercise our tools and our skills in the shop. They are the perfect
"canvas" to paint a masterpiece, and one that you can ride and enjoy for
the rest of our lives.

I recently was riding the twisty hill roads shown in the video when I
passed a young man on a Suzuki sport bike. I later stopped at the overlook
in the one photo and he also pulled up to chat. He "complained" that he
could not hear his engine in order to shift it properly when I was in front
of him because my BSA was so loud. He also said my tires were too skinny to
ride that fast, etc.

Not wishing to deter from his riding enjoyment, I let him leave first so he
could lead and my loud thumping engine and skinny tires would not deter
from his riding. After a couple of curves I passed him again.

I am 68, my bike is 50 years-old, and the young man was on a new GSX. These
old bikes are lighter and have deeper torque,

These old bikes, and these old men, can still ride, and no amount of
electronic wizardry can change that...  :-)

best,

Doug



On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 8:31 PM Mark Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote:

>
> I wish I knew where this came from.  Have no idea who the author might
> be, sad to say.
>
> mjb.
>
> ============
>
> As I watch the Japanese crotch-rockets blasting the circuits,
> I am suffused with a distilled sense of wonder, and I marvel;
> these men and women are so skilled, perfect machines riding on
> perfect machines.  Their bikes are precision instruments built by
> precision instruments, sold in their multitude to the techno-dazed.
>
> About ten years ago, I was out earholing on a norton-racer-road in
> coastal Marin county (north of San Francisco) on my '75 Commando.
> Rolled up to a stop sign.  A guy on an old 500cc BSA thumper came
> around the corner facing me, leaned through the corner, dialed up
> the wick, and thumped on up the hill.  I shut nort down to listen
> to the sound of that long-stroke single haul that hill.  I was
> thrilled; I could feel the sound through the soles of my boots.
> All these years later, when I remember that sound, that fine sound,
> I choke, and tears fill my eyes.  As that quiet thump, thump,
> thump, faded up the hill, me and nort sat and thought of dinosaurs.
> It was a good day to think about dinosaurs, one of those crisp,
> perfect Marin autumn days.  Back then, me and my dinosaur could
> still swat the Japanese flies buzzing around the hills, those
> primordial crotch-rockets, awesome machines that have come to be
> so strong, strong enough to eat me and nort for breakfast.
>
> These ten years gone, I'm now flogging that British oil-bath around
> the Rockies.  But the king is dead (long live the king!), and
> I'm the dinosaur now, breathing the last breath of extinction;
> fading quietly, thump, thump, thump up that hill.  But I wonder,
> where went the soul, where went the art, where went the heart?
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220421/9e374ece/attachment.htm>

From fishplate at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 09:03:45 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:03:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <CAG1pxgYiO3cY-6pDV53tk80r1NhoEoSUwZcPQH8ojySO0pBxhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <4a52a827-7911-2f7b-b34c-fbdf29158d8c@bradakis.com>
 <CAG1pxgYiO3cY-6pDV53tk80r1NhoEoSUwZcPQH8ojySO0pBxhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7COX0Ga9BQCsMUV0jQTUZOrjw2v_VGbQO4kz-g4sLHvEVw@mail.gmail.com>

In the same vein..for what I have in my old British car, I could buy
something much more modern, more powerful, and safer too.  But I'm no
longer in a hurry to "get there" and I'd rather listen to the music a
2500cc Triumph I-6 makes anyway...

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022, 09:05 old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Thank you, a poignant and well written piece for those of us who are
> getting older...
>
> Times pass, but with our shops, our tools, and our knowledge, we can keep
> these old British bikes, or old Harleys running as well if not better than
> they did 50 or 60 years ago. I have my 50 year old BSA Thumper that I
> posted the photos and video of, but I also have a 2013 Aprillia 1000cc V4
> with all of the modern electronic components. I still ride both of them.
> They both are very good at what they do, but I have been imprinted on the
> BSA.
>
> In the spirit of shop talk, over the last 50 years that I have owned the
> BSA, I have used my tools, knowledge and workshops to increase the
> displacement to 600cc, ported the head, installed larger diameter exhaust,
> larger valves, a larger 1000 series Amal carburetor, a Weber racing cam,
> electronic ignition, modified the dry sump oil-in-frame supply to dual feed
> to better circulate and cool the oil, fabricated and a routed pressure-fed
> oil line to the rockers to better oil and cool the valve gear, installed a
> full-flow oil filter on the oil return circuit, higher voltage ignition
> coil, solid state electrical rectification and regulation, improved clutch
> plates and stronger clutch springs to withstand the increased power, modern
> brake linings arced to the drums to be able to stop the bike at high speed
> (not quite as good as dual front disc brakes, but I can lock the front
> wheel if I try), modern Avon tires that grip the road and handle extremely
> well (deep lean angles), rewired the entire electrical harness with
> vibration-proof connectors and larger gauge wire with abrasion-resistant
> vinyl insulation, running Motul 10w60 double ester synthetic oil in the
> engine, synthetic gear lube in the transmission, etc.  It is not just a hot
> rod, it has much improved lubrication, electrical, and braking systems now.
>
> Although this bike is 50 years old, it runs stronger and is more reliable
> now than it was from the factory. It can run with the modern sport bikes on
> the twisty roads you saw in the video.
>
> Old British motorcycles potentially are the ideal "vehicle" for us to
> exercise our tools and our skills in the shop. They are the perfect
> "canvas" to paint a masterpiece, and one that you can ride and enjoy for
> the rest of our lives.
>
> I recently was riding the twisty hill roads shown in the video when I
> passed a young man on a Suzuki sport bike. I later stopped at the overlook
> in the one photo and he also pulled up to chat. He "complained" that he
> could not hear his engine in order to shift it properly when I was in front
> of him because my BSA was so loud. He also said my tires were too skinny to
> ride that fast, etc.
>
> Not wishing to deter from his riding enjoyment, I let him leave first so
> he could lead and my loud thumping engine and skinny tires would not deter
> from his riding. After a couple of curves I passed him again.
>
> I am 68, my bike is 50 years-old, and the young man was on a new GSX.
> These old bikes are lighter and have deeper torque,
>
> These old bikes, and these old men, can still ride, and no amount of
> electronic wizardry can change that...  :-)
>
> best,
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 8:31 PM Mark Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I wish I knew where this came from.  Have no idea who the author might
>> be, sad to say.
>>
>> mjb.
>>
>> ============
>>
>> As I watch the Japanese crotch-rockets blasting the circuits,
>> I am suffused with a distilled sense of wonder, and I marvel;
>> these men and women are so skilled, perfect machines riding on
>> perfect machines.  Their bikes are precision instruments built by
>> precision instruments, sold in their multitude to the techno-dazed.
>>
>> About ten years ago, I was out earholing on a norton-racer-road in
>> coastal Marin county (north of San Francisco) on my '75 Commando.
>> Rolled up to a stop sign.  A guy on an old 500cc BSA thumper came
>> around the corner facing me, leaned through the corner, dialed up
>> the wick, and thumped on up the hill.  I shut nort down to listen
>> to the sound of that long-stroke single haul that hill.  I was
>> thrilled; I could feel the sound through the soles of my boots.
>> All these years later, when I remember that sound, that fine sound,
>> I choke, and tears fill my eyes.  As that quiet thump, thump,
>> thump, faded up the hill, me and nort sat and thought of dinosaurs.
>> It was a good day to think about dinosaurs, one of those crisp,
>> perfect Marin autumn days.  Back then, me and my dinosaur could
>> still swat the Japanese flies buzzing around the hills, those
>> primordial crotch-rockets, awesome machines that have come to be
>> so strong, strong enough to eat me and nort for breakfast.
>>
>> These ten years gone, I'm now flogging that British oil-bath around
>> the Rockies.  But the king is dead (long live the king!), and
>> I'm the dinosaur now, breathing the last breath of extinction;
>> fading quietly, thump, thump, thump up that hill.  But I wonder,
>> where went the soul, where went the art, where went the heart?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220421/e2a8aed8/attachment-0001.htm>

From patintexas at icloud.com  Thu Apr 21 14:20:02 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:20:02 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7COX0Ga9BQCsMUV0jQTUZOrjw2v_VGbQO4kz-g4sLHvEVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7COX0Ga9BQCsMUV0jQTUZOrjw2v_VGbQO4kz-g4sLHvEVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C2367420-CAEF-4E47-9A60-06E27B3B2D6C@icloud.com>

I totally agree. I?m just finishing the frame off restoration of my 67.5 Datsun SPL311 roadster. 

Peace,
Pat 

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 21, 2022, at 10:05 AM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

?
In the same vein..for what I have in my old British car, I could buy something much more modern, more powerful, and safer too.  But I'm no longer in a hurry to "get there" and I'd rather listen to the music a 2500cc Triumph I-6 makes anyway...

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022, 09:05 old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thank you, a poignant and well written piece for those of us who are getting older...
> 
> Times pass, but with our shops, our tools, and our knowledge, we can keep these old British bikes, or old Harleys running as well if not better than they did 50 or 60 years ago. I have my 50 year old BSA Thumper that I posted the photos and video of, but I also have a 2013 Aprillia 1000cc V4 with all of the modern electronic components. I still ride both of them. They both are very good at what they do, but I have been imprinted on the BSA.
> 
> In the spirit of shop talk, over the last 50 years that I have owned the BSA, I have used my tools, knowledge and workshops to increase the displacement to 600cc, ported the head, installed larger diameter exhaust, larger valves, a larger 1000 series Amal carburetor, a Weber racing cam, electronic ignition, modified the dry sump oil-in-frame supply to dual feed to better circulate and cool the oil, fabricated and a routed pressure-fed oil line to the rockers to better oil and cool the valve gear, installed a full-flow oil filter on the oil return circuit, higher voltage ignition coil, solid state electrical rectification and regulation, improved clutch plates and stronger clutch springs to withstand the increased power, modern brake linings arced to the drums to be able to stop the bike at high speed (not quite as good as dual front disc brakes, but I can lock the front wheel if I try), modern Avon tires that grip the road and handle extremely well (deep lean angles), rewired the entire electrical harness with vibration-proof connectors and larger gauge wire with abrasion-resistant vinyl insulation, running Motul 10w60 double ester synthetic oil in the engine, synthetic gear lube in the transmission, etc.  It is not just a hot rod, it has much improved lubrication, electrical, and braking systems now.
> 
> Although this bike is 50 years old, it runs stronger and is more reliable now than it was from the factory. It can run with the modern sport bikes on the twisty roads you saw in the video.
> 
> Old British motorcycles potentially are the ideal "vehicle" for us to exercise our tools and our skills in the shop. They are the perfect "canvas" to paint a masterpiece, and one that you can ride and enjoy for the rest of our lives.
> 
> I recently was riding the twisty hill roads shown in the video when I passed a young man on a Suzuki sport bike. I later stopped at the overlook in the one photo and he also pulled up to chat. He "complained" that he could not hear his engine in order to shift it properly when I was in front of him because my BSA was so loud. He also said my tires were too skinny to ride that fast, etc. 
> 
> Not wishing to deter from his riding enjoyment, I let him leave first so he could lead and my loud thumping engine and skinny tires would not deter from his riding. After a couple of curves I passed him again.
> 
> I am 68, my bike is 50 years-old, and the young man was on a new GSX. These old bikes are lighter and have deeper torque, 
> 
> These old bikes, and these old men, can still ride, and no amount of electronic wizardry can change that...  :-)
> 
> best,
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 8:31 PM Mark Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I wish I knew where this came from.  Have no idea who the author might 
>> be, sad to say.
>> 
>> mjb.
>> 
>> ============
>> 
>> As I watch the Japanese crotch-rockets blasting the circuits,
>> I am suffused with a distilled sense of wonder, and I marvel;
>> these men and women are so skilled, perfect machines riding on
>> perfect machines.  Their bikes are precision instruments built by
>> precision instruments, sold in their multitude to the techno-dazed.
>> 
>> About ten years ago, I was out earholing on a norton-racer-road in
>> coastal Marin county (north of San Francisco) on my '75 Commando.
>> Rolled up to a stop sign.  A guy on an old 500cc BSA thumper came
>> around the corner facing me, leaned through the corner, dialed up
>> the wick, and thumped on up the hill.  I shut nort down to listen
>> to the sound of that long-stroke single haul that hill.  I was
>> thrilled; I could feel the sound through the soles of my boots.
>> All these years later, when I remember that sound, that fine sound,
>> I choke, and tears fill my eyes.  As that quiet thump, thump,
>> thump, faded up the hill, me and nort sat and thought of dinosaurs.
>> It was a good day to think about dinosaurs, one of those crisp,
>> perfect Marin autumn days.  Back then, me and my dinosaur could
>> still swat the Japanese flies buzzing around the hills, those
>> primordial crotch-rockets, awesome machines that have come to be
>> so strong, strong enough to eat me and nort for breakfast.
>> 
>> These ten years gone, I'm now flogging that British oil-bath around
>> the Rockies.  But the king is dead (long live the king!), and
>> I'm the dinosaur now, breathing the last breath of extinction;
>> fading quietly, thump, thump, thump up that hill.  But I wonder,
>> where went the soul, where went the art, where went the heart?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
> 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220421/ee48c1f7/attachment.htm>

From JIBrooks at live.com  Thu Apr 21 19:44:58 2022
From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 01:44:58 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] changing times...
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7COX0Ga9BQCsMUV0jQTUZOrjw2v_VGbQO4kz-g4sLHvEVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+k5suoF6YR7-d72w_g+FX7cpG4Drpv2mVboyKMQk4qvECCzuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <4a52a827-7911-2f7b-b34c-fbdf29158d8c@bradakis.com>
 <CAG1pxgYiO3cY-6pDV53tk80r1NhoEoSUwZcPQH8ojySO0pBxhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7COX0Ga9BQCsMUV0jQTUZOrjw2v_VGbQO4kz-g4sLHvEVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PH7PR20MB4662E4362B2EB38EA3C4ED0EA8F79@PH7PR20MB4662.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I will second both Doug and you Jeff!

While I will always regret selling my ?74 Norton Commando, I love driving my TR3 and TR8.  They both sing to me, just like the amazing sound of the straight six in your TR.

Jack

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jeff Scarbrough
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 8:04 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] changing times...

In the same vein..for what I have in my old British car, I could buy something much more modern, more powerful, and safer too.  But I'm no longer in a hurry to "get there" and I'd rather listen to the music a 2500cc Triumph I-6 makes anyway...

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022, 09:05 old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com<mailto:dirtbeard at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Mark,

Thank you, a poignant and well written piece for those of us who are getting older...

Times pass, but with our shops, our tools, and our knowledge, we can keep these old British bikes, or old Harleys running as well if not better than they did 50 or 60 years ago. I have my 50 year old BSA Thumper that I posted the photos and video of, but I also have a 2013 Aprillia 1000cc V4 with all of the modern electronic components. I still ride both of them. They both are very good at what they do, but I have been imprinted on the BSA.

In the spirit of shop talk, over the last 50 years that I have owned the BSA, I have used my tools, knowledge and workshops to increase the displacement to 600cc, ported the head, installed larger diameter exhaust, larger valves, a larger 1000 series Amal carburetor, a Weber racing cam, electronic ignition, modified the dry sump oil-in-frame supply to dual feed to better circulate and cool the oil, fabricated and a routed pressure-fed oil line to the rockers to better oil and cool the valve gear, installed a full-flow oil filter on the oil return circuit, higher voltage ignition coil, solid state electrical rectification and regulation, improved clutch plates and stronger clutch springs to withstand the increased power, modern brake linings arced to the drums to be able to stop the bike at high speed (not quite as good as dual front disc brakes, but I can lock the front wheel if I try), modern Avon tires that grip the road and handle extremely well (deep lean angles), rewired the entire electrical harness with vibration-proof connectors and larger gauge wire with abrasion-resistant vinyl insulation, running Motul 10w60 double ester synthetic oil in the engine, synthetic gear lube in the transmission, etc.  It is not just a hot rod, it has much improved lubrication, electrical, and braking systems now.

Although this bike is 50 years old, it runs stronger and is more reliable now than it was from the factory. It can run with the modern sport bikes on the twisty roads you saw in the video.

Old British motorcycles potentially are the ideal "vehicle" for us to exercise our tools and our skills in the shop. They are the perfect "canvas" to paint a masterpiece, and one that you can ride and enjoy for the rest of our lives.

I recently was riding the twisty hill roads shown in the video when I passed a young man on a Suzuki sport bike. I later stopped at the overlook in the one photo and he also pulled up to chat. He "complained" that he could not hear his engine in order to shift it properly when I was in front of him because my BSA was so loud. He also said my tires were too skinny to ride that fast, etc.

Not wishing to deter from his riding enjoyment, I let him leave first so he could lead and my loud thumping engine and skinny tires would not deter from his riding. After a couple of curves I passed him again.

I am 68, my bike is 50 years-old, and the young man was on a new GSX. These old bikes are lighter and have deeper torque,

These old bikes, and these old men, can still ride, and no amount of electronic wizardry can change that...  :-)

best,

Doug



On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 8:31 PM Mark Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com<mailto:mark at bradakis.com>> wrote:

I wish I knew where this came from.  Have no idea who the author might
be, sad to say.

mjb.

============

As I watch the Japanese crotch-rockets blasting the circuits,
I am suffused with a distilled sense of wonder, and I marvel;
these men and women are so skilled, perfect machines riding on
perfect machines.  Their bikes are precision instruments built by
precision instruments, sold in their multitude to the techno-dazed.

About ten years ago, I was out earholing on a norton-racer-road in
coastal Marin county (north of San Francisco) on my '75 Commando.
Rolled up to a stop sign.  A guy on an old 500cc BSA thumper came
around the corner facing me, leaned through the corner, dialed up
the wick, and thumped on up the hill.  I shut nort down to listen
to the sound of that long-stroke single haul that hill.  I was
thrilled; I could feel the sound through the soles of my boots.
All these years later, when I remember that sound, that fine sound,
I choke, and tears fill my eyes.  As that quiet thump, thump,
thump, faded up the hill, me and nort sat and thought of dinosaurs.
It was a good day to think about dinosaurs, one of those crisp,
perfect Marin autumn days.  Back then, me and my dinosaur could
still swat the Japanese flies buzzing around the hills, those
primordial crotch-rockets, awesome machines that have come to be
so strong, strong enough to eat me and nort for breakfast.

These ten years gone, I'm now flogging that British oil-bath around
the Rockies.  But the king is dead (long live the king!), and
I'm the dinosaur now, breathing the last breath of extinction;
fading quietly, thump, thump, thump up that hill.  But I wonder,
where went the soul, where went the art, where went the heart?

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net<mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net<mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220422/f8aed913/attachment-0001.htm>

From fishplate at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 17:20:02 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 19:20:02 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer Nut Torque
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CMw6S4Hx_RmzD+Rh=27dTfpQ-_jrMdky3j=JXvDXvFvRw@mail.gmail.com>

So, after ten years, I decided to replace my trailer tires.   When I put
the wheels back on, though, I have no idea what torque value to use.  2750
GVWR on a 2600 pound axle with 1/2-24 studs

What sayeth the choir?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220429/4bbcb376/attachment.htm>

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 17:24:56 2022
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:24:56 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer Nut Torque
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CMw6S4Hx_RmzD+Rh=27dTfpQ-_jrMdky3j=JXvDXvFvRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CMw6S4Hx_RmzD+Rh=27dTfpQ-_jrMdky3j=JXvDXvFvRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YBVM_=E0AdrjG4z2MgLQjNFwBX99EN94yHmM+zm+1QYjQ@mail.gmail.com>

My 16' trailer with 3500 pound axles recommends 80 ft lbs.  There are also
1/2 inch studs.  Not sure about the thread pitch, guessing they are all the
same.

On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 6:20 PM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

> So, after ten years, I decided to replace my trailer tires.   When I put
> the wheels back on, though, I have no idea what torque value to use.  2750
> GVWR on a 2600 pound axle with 1/2-24 studs
>
> What sayeth the choir?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220429/095f06e2/attachment.htm>

From patintexas at icloud.com  Fri Apr 29 17:29:17 2022
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:29:17 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer Nut Torque
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CMw6S4Hx_RmzD+Rh=27dTfpQ-_jrMdky3j=JXvDXvFvRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CMw6S4Hx_RmzD+Rh=27dTfpQ-_jrMdky3j=JXvDXvFvRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FC93419D-68FC-4E0E-8110-BDDA9A69DF42@icloud.com>

Quick search shows 75-85 for steel wheels. I don?t usually torque mine but just tighten them a bit more than my van but really should torque them. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 29, 2022, at 6:20 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

?
So, after ten years, I decided to replace my trailer tires.   When I put the wheels back on, though, I have no idea what torque value to use.  2750 GVWR on a 2600 pound axle with 1/2-24 studs 

What sayeth the choir?
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From jem at milleredp.com  Fri Apr 29 17:57:28 2022
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 16:57:28 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer Nut Torque
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YBVM_=E0AdrjG4z2MgLQjNFwBX99EN94yHmM+zm+1QYjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CMw6S4Hx_RmzD+Rh=27dTfpQ-_jrMdky3j=JXvDXvFvRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANuE7YBVM_=E0AdrjG4z2MgLQjNFwBX99EN94yHmM+zm+1QYjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0307094d-6d16-1024-c7e9-a77379ad18f3@milleredp.com>

On 4/29/2022 4:24 PM, John Innis wrote:
> My 16' trailer with 3500 pound axles recommends 80 ft lbs.? There are 
> also 1/2 inch studs.? Not sure about the thread pitch, guessing they are 
> all the same.

80ft/lb sounds right for 1/2in studs and are you sure about that 24tpi - 
every 1/2in fine-thread lugnut I've seen has been standard 1/2-20.

John.

From fishplate at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 04:01:22 2022
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 06:01:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer Nut Torque
In-Reply-To: <0307094d-6d16-1024-c7e9-a77379ad18f3@milleredp.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CMw6S4Hx_RmzD+Rh=27dTfpQ-_jrMdky3j=JXvDXvFvRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANuE7YBVM_=E0AdrjG4z2MgLQjNFwBX99EN94yHmM+zm+1QYjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0307094d-6d16-1024-c7e9-a77379ad18f3@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CMuW+xX7mRwnUW5XrpbtHWQPU_sS_Tn3jouS7krXMxOmg@mail.gmail.com>

I had 24 in my head, but my head isn't what it used to be.  It's the
common fine pitch for 1/2" threads, whatever that is (verified with
pitch gauge).  20 now sounds more like it.

On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 7:58 PM John Miller <jem at milleredp.com> wrote:
>
> On 4/29/2022 4:24 PM, John Innis wrote:
> > My 16' trailer with 3500 pound axles recommends 80 ft lbs.  There are
> > also 1/2 inch studs.  Not sure about the thread pitch, guessing they are
> > all the same.
>
> 80ft/lb sounds right for 1/2in studs and are you sure about that 24tpi -
> every 1/2in fine-thread lugnut I've seen has been standard 1/2-20.
>
> John.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 09:32:43 2022
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 10:32:43 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer Nut Torque
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CMuW+xX7mRwnUW5XrpbtHWQPU_sS_Tn3jouS7krXMxOmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CMuW+xX7mRwnUW5XrpbtHWQPU_sS_Tn3jouS7krXMxOmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CF5B8A48-BC9D-4BD5-BB5F-4716142CA999@gmail.com>



> On Apr 30, 2022, at 05:02, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I had 24 in my head, but my head isn't what it used to be.  It's the
> common fine pitch for 1/2" threads, whatever that is (verified with
> pitch gauge).  20 now sounds more like it.

Assuming this is five studs on 15 or 16 wheels, 100 lbs is what we always did. 
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 7:58 PM John Miller <jem at milleredp.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 4/29/2022 4:24 PM, John Innis wrote:
>>> My 16' trailer with 3500 pound axles recommends 80 ft lbs.  There are
>>> also 1/2 inch studs.  Not sure about the thread pitch, guessing they are
>>> all the same.
>> 
>> 80ft/lb sounds right for 1/2in studs and are you sure about that 24tpi -
>> every 1/2in fine-thread lugnut I've seen has been standard 1/2-20.
>> 
>> John.
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com
> 

From ejrussell61 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 30 10:32:13 2022
From: ejrussell61 at gmail.com (Eric Russell)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:32:13 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer Nut Torque
In-Reply-To: <CF5B8A48-BC9D-4BD5-BB5F-4716142CA999@gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CMuW+xX7mRwnUW5XrpbtHWQPU_sS_Tn3jouS7krXMxOmg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CF5B8A48-BC9D-4BD5-BB5F-4716142CA999@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7dBXD_xVRQf3V5k0-D4nTiK34NHSCG-sLq9nbjmjOT_jmYsw@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.etrailer.com/question-94709.html

On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 11:32 AM David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On Apr 30, 2022, at 05:02, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?I had 24 in my head, but my head isn't what it used to be.  It's the
> > common fine pitch for 1/2" threads, whatever that is (verified with
> > pitch gauge).  20 now sounds more like it.
>
> Assuming this is five studs on 15 or 16 wheels, 100 lbs is what we always
> did.
> >
> >> On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 7:58 PM John Miller <jem at milleredp.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 4/29/2022 4:24 PM, John Innis wrote:
> >>> My 16' trailer with 3500 pound axles recommends 80 ft lbs.  There are
> >>> also 1/2 inch studs.  Not sure about the thread pitch, guessing they
> are
> >>> all the same.
> >>
> >> 80ft/lb sounds right for 1/2in studs and are you sure about that 24tpi -
> >> every 1/2in fine-thread lugnut I've seen has been standard 1/2-20.
> >>
> >> John.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ejrussell61 at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk/attachments/20220430/ee08b1be/attachment-0001.htm>