From jmitch at snet.net Sun Jan 3 19:48:48 2021 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 21:48:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tubes of chassis grease References: Message-ID: Does anyone know of a brand of chassis lubricant that doesn't separate out after a few months?? I put a tube of valvoline synthetic in the gun over the summer and a large puddle of red lubricant ran out when I just went to use it again.? There's no way for me to use an entire tube at once.? Second question, does anyone have a good product to remove said puddle from my concrete floor? From stearman809 at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 20:16:43 2021 From: stearman809 at gmail.com (Karl Vacek) Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:16:43 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tubes of chassis grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <176cb659d78.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> I've experienced separation from various greases, automotive and aviation, conventional and synthetic. Shell, Mobil One, Kendall, etc. The one type that hasn't done that is moly grease, which I've mostly used since about 1970. Current version I'm using is Valvoline SynPower full synthetic, I think they recently changed the lineup and now it's called Gray. Same stuff, same color, still no separation issues. On January 3, 2021 8:55:52 PM John Mitchell wrote: > Does anyone know of a brand of chassis lubricant that doesn't separate > out after a few months? I put a tube of valvoline synthetic in the gun > over the summer and a large puddle of red lubricant ran out when I just > went to use it again. There's no way for me to use an entire tube at > once. Second question, does anyone have a good product to remove said > puddle from my concrete floor? > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/stearman809 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjzwissler at gmail.com Sun Jan 3 20:26:45 2021 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Benjamin Zwissler) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 22:26:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tubes of chassis grease In-Reply-To: <176cb659d78.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> References: <176cb659d78.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've had the same problem with separation. Good tip on the moly grease from Valvoline For cleaning up greasy messes I blot it up first as best I can with paper towels then I use degreaser I buy at sam's club. Purple color in gallon bottles. It's stronger than the purple power stuff the home repair places sell. Straight from the bottle it will cut grease and oil buildup quickly and you can cut it with water for lighter degreasing. It is hard on aluminum and after rinsing steel parts will flash rust nearly immediately. Ben On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 10:18 PM Karl Vacek wrote: > I've experienced separation from various greases, automotive and aviation, > conventional and synthetic. Shell, Mobil One, Kendall, etc. The one type > that hasn't done that is moly grease, which I've mostly used since about > 1970. Current version I'm using is Valvoline SynPower full synthetic, I > think they recently changed the lineup and now it's called Gray. Same > stuff, same color, still no separation issues. > > On January 3, 2021 8:55:52 PM John Mitchell wrote: > > Does anyone know of a brand of chassis lubricant that doesn't separate >> out after a few months? I put a tube of valvoline synthetic in the gun >> over the summer and a large puddle of red lubricant ran out when I just >> went to use it again. There's no way for me to use an entire tube at >> once. Second question, does anyone have a good product to remove said >> puddle from my concrete floor? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/stearman809 at gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sun Jan 3 21:22:05 2021 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric Russell) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 23:22:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tubes of chassis grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <195f37de-3eac-72bd-6491-e12467d20572@mebtel.net> On 1/3/2021 9:48 PM, John Mitchell wrote: > Does anyone know of a brand of chassis lubricant that doesn't separate > out after a few months? Is it very hot in your garage? If so, is there someplace cooler you can store it? > ?Second question, does anyone have a good product to remove said > puddle from my concrete floor? I spray grease/oil stains on concrete (not asphalt) with brake clean or pour some lacquer thinner on them then cover with sawdust or kitty litter. Let the sawdust or kitty litter soak up the liquid then sweep it up and dispose. Eric Russell Mebane, NC From fishplate at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 04:39:41 2021 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 06:39:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tubes of chassis grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:56 PM John Mitchell wrote: > > There's no way for me to use an entire tube at > once. May not help you, but I bought a mini-grease gun that uses 3 ounce cartridges. If I do have one get squidgy, I'm not wasting as much. I don't own a tractor or a combine, so I don't need anything bigger. From eric at megageek.com Mon Jan 4 06:14:08 2021 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 08:14:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? Message-ID: OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do they do this to us?" I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the bottom of the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right in front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil everywhere. Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect the oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it doesn't go all the way back to under the oil filter! This means that some oil drips under the oil filter while more drips in front of the frame rail about 2 feet away (meaning no single oil pan can catch both.) I'm seeing this in more and more cars that have stupid oil drains. Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for optimal oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. With all the environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to prevent oil spills and splashes would be ideal. Can anyone explain this? Or is it just a case of designers really HATE mechanics? "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phoenix722 at comcast.net Mon Jan 4 06:33:57 2021 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 05:33:57 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7d165d53-5ef4-b600-8a57-1d80bd17db41@comcast.net> I have to agree.? My 2005 Colorado has a cheapo plastic "funnel" on top of the frame, under the filter, and it catches about 75% of the spill.? The filter is almost horizontal, too!? I did have a Ford wagon once where the sump drain was on a corner, but reachable from above.? Handy. Mike On 1/4/2021 5:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do > they do this to us?" > > I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains > horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down > from the bottom of the oil pan.) ?This make's oil changes SO much > harder and messier. > > Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right > in front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil > everywhere. ?Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect > the oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it > doesn't go all the way back to under the oil filter! ?This means that > some oil drips under the oil filter while more drips in front of the > frame rail about 2 feet away (meaning no single oil pan can catch > both.) ?I'm seeing this in more and more cars that have stupid oil > drains. > > Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame > builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for > optimal oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. ?With > all the environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to > prevent oil spills and splashes would be ideal. > > Can anyone explain this? ?Or is it just a case of designers really > HATE mechanics? > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a > rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your > territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bk13 at earthlink.net Mon Jan 4 07:22:10 2021 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 06:22:10 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c816a47-dce2-98d3-b218-8af5f164bf9f@earthlink.net> I think they are horizontal for extra protection against ground impact.? If they stuck out the bottom and you went off road or drove over a concrete stop in a parking lot, an oil drain plug could take a direct impact and perhaps have greater damage than hitting a frame rail or suspension bit. I share your frustration with the oil filter location from my Honda Odyssey.? Changing the filter caused oil to come down directly on the frame rail.? My solution was to take a foot square of alluminum foil and make my own deflection device to catch all the oil and direct it to the drain pan. Brian On 1/4/2021 5:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do > they do this to us?" > > I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains > horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down > from the bottom of the oil pan.) ?This make's oil changes SO much > harder and messier. > > Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right > in front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil > everywhere. ?Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect > the oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it > doesn't go all the way back to under the oil filter! ?This means that > some oil drips under the oil filter while more drips in front of the > frame rail about 2 feet away (meaning no single oil pan can catch > both.) ?I'm seeing this in more and more cars that have stupid oil > drains. > > Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame > builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for > optimal oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. ?With > all the environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to > prevent oil spills and splashes would be ideal. > > Can anyone explain this? ?Or is it just a case of designers really > HATE mechanics? > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a > rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your > territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marka at maracing.com Mon Jan 4 07:25:49 2021 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 09:25:49 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: <8c816a47-dce2-98d3-b218-8af5f164bf9f@earthlink.net> References: <8c816a47-dce2-98d3-b218-8af5f164bf9f@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Howdy, Re: controlling the flow of oil... I have something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Discharging-Motorcycles-Automobiles-Equipment/dp/B08PFVR7CS/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=oil+catch+director&qid=1609770211&sr=8-9 Basically it's a formable sheet that you can bend into whatever shape, that you can set on crossmembers or whatever that would otherwise get soaked in oil. The one I have works reasonably well for directing oil flow. Not sure how the one I linked to performs (I got mine probably 20 years ago), but it looks like the same thing? Mark On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 9:22 AM Brian Kemp wrote: > I think they are horizontal for extra protection against ground impact. > If they stuck out the bottom and you went off road or drove over a concrete > stop in a parking lot, an oil drain plug could take a direct impact and > perhaps have greater damage than hitting a frame rail or suspension bit. > > I share your frustration with the oil filter location from my Honda > Odyssey. Changing the filter caused oil to come down directly on the frame > rail. My solution was to take a foot square of alluminum foil and make my > own deflection device to catch all the oil and direct it to the drain pan. > > Brian > > On 1/4/2021 5:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do they > do this to us?" > > I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains horizontally > and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the bottom of > the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. > > Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right in > front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil > everywhere. Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect the > oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it doesn't go all > the way back to under the oil filter! This means that some oil drips under > the oil filter while more drips in front of the frame rail about 2 feet > away (meaning no single oil pan can catch both.) I'm seeing this in more > and more cars that have stupid oil drains. > > Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame > builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for optimal > oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. With all the > environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to prevent oil > spills and splashes would be ideal. > > Can anyone explain this? Or is it just a case of designers really HATE > mechanics? > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > > _______________________________________________ > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 07:32:14 2021 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 06:32:14 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: <8c816a47-dce2-98d3-b218-8af5f164bf9f@earthlink.net> References: <8c816a47-dce2-98d3-b218-8af5f164bf9f@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yes, that is what NAPA says: http://knowhow.napaonline.com/understanding-oil-drain-plug/#:~:text=The%20plug%20isn't%20always,a%20speed%20bump%20or%20pothole . *The plug isn?t always located on the bottom side of the pan. In fact, you?ll most often find it attached to the side, where it?s better protected from damage that could arise from scraping against a speed bump or pothole. * I could conjecture also that having them on the side perhaps makes them more readily visible if you are sliding under the car on a creeper, easier to get a socket on, less likely to strip, etc. best, doug On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 6:23 AM Brian Kemp wrote: > I think they are horizontal for extra protection against ground impact. > If they stuck out the bottom and you went off road or drove over a concrete > stop in a parking lot, an oil drain plug could take a direct impact and > perhaps have greater damage than hitting a frame rail or suspension bit. > > I share your frustration with the oil filter location from my Honda > Odyssey. Changing the filter caused oil to come down directly on the frame > rail. My solution was to take a foot square of alluminum foil and make my > own deflection device to catch all the oil and direct it to the drain pan. > > Brian > > On 1/4/2021 5:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do they > do this to us?" > > I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains horizontally > and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the bottom of > the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. > > Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right in > front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil > everywhere. Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect the > oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it doesn't go all > the way back to under the oil filter! This means that some oil drips under > the oil filter while more drips in front of the frame rail about 2 feet > away (meaning no single oil pan can catch both.) I'm seeing this in more > and more cars that have stupid oil drains. > > Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame > builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for optimal > oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. With all the > environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to prevent oil > spills and splashes would be ideal. > > Can anyone explain this? Or is it just a case of designers really HATE > mechanics? > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > > _______________________________________________ > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peterwmurray at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 07:46:17 2021 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 09:46:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: <8c816a47-dce2-98d3-b218-8af5f164bf9f@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I have a couple of these - the USA-made original Form-A-Funnel. They make almost any drain plug work just fine, and are incredibly durable. https://formafunnel.com/ I also install the Fumoto oil drain valves on my cars, which also makes a huge difference. One can get versions with a nipple, which allows for the attachment of a hose to direct the output wherever you'd like. http://www.fumotousa.com/index.php -Peter - On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 9:35 AM old dirtbeard wrote: > Yes, that is what NAPA says: > > > http://knowhow.napaonline.com/understanding-oil-drain-plug/#:~:text=The%20plug%20isn't%20always,a%20speed%20bump%20or%20pothole > . > > *The plug isn?t always located on the bottom side of the pan. In fact, > you?ll most often find it attached to the side, where it?s better protected > from damage that could arise from scraping against a speed bump or > pothole. * > > > I could conjecture also that having them on the side perhaps makes them > more readily visible if you are sliding under the car on a creeper, easier > to get a socket on, less likely to strip, etc. > > best, > > doug > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 6:23 AM Brian Kemp wrote: > >> I think they are horizontal for extra protection against ground impact. >> If they stuck out the bottom and you went off road or drove over a concrete >> stop in a parking lot, an oil drain plug could take a direct impact and >> perhaps have greater damage than hitting a frame rail or suspension bit. >> >> I share your frustration with the oil filter location from my Honda >> Odyssey. Changing the filter caused oil to come down directly on the frame >> rail. My solution was to take a foot square of alluminum foil and make my >> own deflection device to catch all the oil and direct it to the drain pan. >> >> Brian >> >> On 1/4/2021 5:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: >> >> OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do they >> do this to us?" >> >> I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains >> horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the >> bottom of the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. >> >> Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right in >> front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil >> everywhere. Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect the >> oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it doesn't go all >> the way back to under the oil filter! This means that some oil drips under >> the oil filter while more drips in front of the frame rail about 2 feet >> away (meaning no single oil pan can catch both.) I'm seeing this in more >> and more cars that have stupid oil drains. >> >> Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame >> builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for optimal >> oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. With all the >> environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to prevent oil >> spills and splashes would be ideal. >> >> Can anyone explain this? Or is it just a case of designers really HATE >> mechanics? >> >> >> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational >> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph >> Waldo Emerson >> -Who is John Galt? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Mon Jan 4 08:50:21 2021 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:50:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FWIW, my 06 4Runner has a vertical drain plug that's recessed and protected by a skid plate. You might consider installing a Fumoto-style drain plug valve.? I haven't installed one yet but lots of people seem to swear by them.? They'll let you connect a hose to drain the oil directly into your drain pan. On 1/4/21 08:14, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do > they do this to us?" > > I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains > horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down > from the bottom of the oil pan.) ?This make's oil changes SO much > harder and messier. > > Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right > in front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil > everywhere. ?Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect > the oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it > doesn't go all the way back to under the oil filter! ?This means that > some oil drips under the oil filter while more drips in front of the > frame rail about 2 feet away (meaning no single oil pan can catch > both.) ?I'm seeing this in more and more cars that have stupid oil > drains. > > Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame > builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for > optimal oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. ?With > all the environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to > prevent oil spills and splashes would be ideal. > > Can anyone explain this? ?Or is it just a case of designers really > HATE mechanics? > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a > rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your > territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Mon Jan 4 09:16:23 2021 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 11:16:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> > On Jan 4, 2021, at 8:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the bottom of the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. I'm not usually a conpsiracy theorist, but perhaps this is to coerce owners to have it serviced at the dealer, where they suck oil out through the dipstick tube? The engineer in me wants to say it's for protection from ground damage (do kids jump railroad tracks anymore?). I'm about to buy an oil sucker outer in case anyone has one they recommend. The Mity-vac looks nice at at $180 it'll be paid for after 2 dealer oil changes :-D jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrochlin at comcast.net Mon Jan 4 09:16:34 2021 From: rrochlin at comcast.net (Rochlin Robert) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 11:16:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: <8c816a47-dce2-98d3-b218-8af5f164bf9f@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0DD6B571-8424-41E4-A128-59283098B3BF@comcast.net> To mitigate the mess I've tak'en to using synthetic oil and changing it every 8,000 miles. Same mess, but less often? Best, Bob > On Jan 4, 2021, at 9:25 AM, Mark Andy wrote: > > Howdy, > > Re: controlling the flow of oil... > > I have something like this: > > https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Discharging-Motorcycles-Automobiles-Equipment/dp/B08PFVR7CS/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=oil+catch+director&qid=1609770211&sr=8-9 > > Basically it's a formable sheet that you can bend into whatever shape, that you can set on crossmembers or whatever that would otherwise get soaked in oil. > > The one I have works reasonably well for directing oil flow. Not sure how the one I linked to performs (I got mine probably 20 years ago), but it looks like the same thing? > > Mark > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 9:22 AM Brian Kemp > wrote: > I think they are horizontal for extra protection against ground impact. If they stuck out the bottom and you went off road or drove over a concrete stop in a parking lot, an oil drain plug could take a direct impact and perhaps have greater damage than hitting a frame rail or suspension bit. > > I share your frustration with the oil filter location from my Honda Odyssey. Changing the filter caused oil to come down directly on the frame rail. My solution was to take a foot square of alluminum foil and make my own deflection device to catch all the oil and direct it to the drain pan. > > Brian > > On 1/4/2021 5:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: >> OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do they do this to us?" >> >> I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the bottom of the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. >> >> Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right in front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil everywhere. Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect the oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it doesn't go all the way back to under the oil filter! This means that some oil drips under the oil filter while more drips in front of the frame rail about 2 feet away (meaning no single oil pan can catch both.) I'm seeing this in more and more cars that have stupid oil drains. >> >> Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for optimal oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. With all the environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to prevent oil spills and splashes would be ideal. >> >> Can anyone explain this? Or is it just a case of designers really HATE mechanics? >> >> >> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson >> -Who is John Galt? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rrochlin at comcast.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 09:33:46 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:33:46 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> References: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: I don't really mind the side-mount drains. Or at least that's not my biggest complaint--the oil filter locations and obstructed drain paths are far worse. My wife's Mazda had an oil filter that was under the exhaust manifolds--you literally had to reach over, around, then behind the manifold to un-screw the filter. Mazdas are built in Hiroshima. I'm not 100% sure a lot of their engineering isn't revenge for something. I don't have a good oil vacuum to recommend, Jim. They were all the rage with the VW TDI fellows and Griot's Garage really wanted you to buy one too. There was so much on the web about getting an extra .5 quart, minimum out of the sump because the drain wasn't positioned correctly, etc. I bought one. I always ended up opening the drain plug anyway and getting more out. I *do* like the vacuums for engines with non-canister filters to suck oil from the filter housing...but a $3 turkey baster from Wal-Mart accomplishes the same thing. On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:19 AM Jim Franklin wrote: > > > On Jan 4, 2021, at 8:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains horizontally > and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the bottom of > the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. > > > I'm not usually a conpsiracy theorist, but perhaps this is to coerce > owners to have it serviced at the dealer, where they suck oil out through > the dipstick tube? > > The engineer in me wants to say it's for protection from ground damage (do > kids jump railroad tracks anymore?). > > I'm about to buy an oil sucker outer in case anyone has one they > recommend. The Mity-vac looks nice at at $180 it'll be paid for after 2 > dealer oil changes :-D > > jim > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmitch at snet.net Mon Jan 4 09:49:16 2021 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 11:49:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> References: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <58ca2149-9255-2547-5d16-559ef547bf84@snet.net> I can definitely recommend the Mity Vac.? It's well made and just a few pumps pulls out any liquid you need to change, and just a flip of the swich and I pump it into a container to take to my city garage. Changing the transmission fluid on my truck can be a huge chore because you need to drop the exhaust to remove the pan cover.? With the Mity Vac, I suck out everything I can and replace it.? I know I can't get it all, so I do it every year to keep it nice and clean. On 1/4/2021 11:16 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > > >> On Jan 4, 2021, at 8:14 AM, eric at megageek.com >> wrote: >> >> I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains >> horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down >> from the bottom of the oil pan.) ?This make's oil changes SO much >> harder and messier. > > I'm not usually a conpsiracy theorist, but perhaps this is to coerce > owners to have it serviced at the dealer, where they suck oil out > through the dipstick tube? > > The engineer in me wants to say it's for protection from ground damage > (do kids jump railroad tracks anymore?). > > I'm about to buy an oil sucker outer in case anyone has one they > recommend. The Mity-vac looks nice at at $180 it'll be paid for after > 2 dealer oil changes :-D > > jim > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jmitch at snet.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jan 4 09:49:26 2021 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 08:49:26 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tubes of chassis grease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f02fef9-a746-d5bd-2414-0eac6dc67fef@comcast.net> I've had tubes of this stuff sitting on the shelf for years with no apparent separation: *https://tinyurl.com/y7vbdcec* On 1/4/2021 3:39 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:56 PM John Mitchell wrote: >> There's no way for me to use an entire tube at >> once. > May not help you, but I bought a mini-grease gun that uses 3 ounce > cartridges. If I do have one get squidgy, I'm not wasting as much. I > don't own a tractor or a combine, so I don't need anything bigger. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhlocker at comcast.net Mon Jan 4 10:17:24 2021 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:17:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: Tubes of chassis grease In-Reply-To: <3815e503-fc45-2cef-39d4-839e165d2646@comcast.net> References: <3815e503-fc45-2cef-39d4-839e165d2646@comcast.net> Message-ID: Meant for the list. BTW, for those interested, the "?gclid=...." string that the tinyurl was hiding is a google tracking code, so they can tell who has gone where. Beware of all kinds of "clid=" strings. For those who are (properly) leery of tinyurl (which can point to and/or hide all kinds of malware-infested locations) the product is Mobilgrease? XHP 222, Blue, Lithium Complex, Multipurpose Grease, 13.7 oz, 2 NLGI Grade WWGrainger is one vendor. https://www.grainger.com/product/1MUC1 is their page for it. [I use a special configuration of a secure browser for such investigations; normally, I just let them pass because it's a major pain, but good lubes are close to my heart.] Donald. -- On 2021-01-04 11:49 a.m., Bob Spidell wrote: > I've had tubes of this stuff sitting on the shelf for years with no > apparent separation: > > *https://tinyurl.com/y7vbdcec* > > On 1/4/2021 3:39 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:56 PM John Mitchell wrote: >>> There's no way for me to use an entire tube at >>> once. >> May not help you, but I bought a mini-grease gun that uses 3 ounce >> cartridges. If I do have one get squidgy, I'm not wasting as much. I >> don't own a tractor or a combine, so I don't need anything bigger. >> From ejrussell at mebtel.net Mon Jan 4 10:21:55 2021 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric Russell) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:21:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <2bba8a67-8e4b-3293-3281-812bfd2ce2f2@mebtel.net> On 1/4/2021 11:33 AM, Scott Hall wrote: > ?a $3 turkey baster from Wal-Mart accomplishes the same thing. Note to self; Decline Thanksgiving dinner invitation from Scott. EjR From maynerdfamily at msn.com Mon Jan 4 10:27:27 2021 From: maynerdfamily at msn.com (Brian and Wendy Warrick) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:27:27 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Not a new car problem. My 1977 F150 with a 351M drains oil all over the front crossmember. I went with the oil valve with a nipple for some vinyl tube. Works great and I can do it hot without burning myself. Brian Warrick Nampa, ID ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Jimmie Mayfield Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 8:50 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? FWIW, my 06 4Runner has a vertical drain plug that's recessed and protected by a skid plate. You might consider installing a Fumoto-style drain plug valve. I haven't installed one yet but lots of people seem to swear by them. They'll let you connect a hose to drain the oil directly into your drain pan. On 1/4/21 08:14, eric at megageek.com wrote: OK, this is half vent and half "can someone explain why the heck do they do this to us?" I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the bottom of the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. Then, I've even seen (2018 Ford F150) where it has a frame rail right in front of the oil hole and it splashes the nearly 2 GALLONS of oil everywhere. Then, the oil filter has a 'slide' under it to redirect the oil to the front of the frame, which is nice, EXCEPT that it doesn't go all the way back to under the oil filter! This means that some oil drips under the oil filter while more drips in front of the frame rail about 2 feet away (meaning no single oil pan can catch both.) I'm seeing this in more and more cars that have stupid oil drains. Now I get that engines are sometime designed in a vacuum and the frame builders don't care what is in the way, but it just seems that for optimal oil changes, a plug should be at the bottom of the pan. With all the environmental concerns, I would also imagine that any way to prevent oil spills and splashes would be ideal. Can anyone explain this? Or is it just a case of designers really HATE mechanics? "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jan 4 10:28:30 2021 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 09:28:30 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> References: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <22e9d067-522f-c2cf-9fca-708846066f99@comcast.net> I bought one similar to this (there's various brands/prices that all look pretty much the same; I'd wager they're all made in the same Chinese factory): *https://tinyurl.com/y964denv* It does the job (15L versions are available). I mainly use if for small engines, so haven't tried the pneumatic feature yet. I haven't been impressed with MityVac products (one of their vacuum pumps failed on me after only a couple uses). Bob On 1/4/2021 8:16 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > > >> On Jan 4, 2021, at 8:14 AM, eric at megageek.com >> wrote: >> >> I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains >> horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down >> from the bottom of the oil pan.) ?This make's oil changes SO much >> harder and messier. > > I'm not usually a conpsiracy theorist, but perhaps this is to coerce > owners to have it serviced at the dealer, where they suck oil out > through the dipstick tube? > > The engineer in me wants to say it's for protection from ground damage > (do kids jump railroad tracks anymore?). > > I'm about to buy an oil sucker outer in case anyone has one they > recommend. The Mity-vac looks nice at at $180 it'll be paid for after > 2 dealer oil changes :-D > > jim > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jan 4 10:54:00 2021 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 09:54:00 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: <22e9d067-522f-c2cf-9fca-708846066f99@comcast.net> References: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> <22e9d067-522f-c2cf-9fca-708846066f99@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3590978b-e24c-63bb-e55c-6af166e0f7fb@comcast.net> This is from an Amazon-native search (no 'gclid'). On 1/4/2021 9:28 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > I bought one similar to this (there's various brands/prices that all > look pretty much the same; I'd wager they're all made in the same > Chinese factory): > > *https://tinyurl.com/y964denv* > > It does the job (15L versions are available). I mainly use if for > small engines, so haven't tried the pneumatic feature yet. > > I haven't been impressed with MityVac products (one of their vacuum > pumps failed on me after only a couple uses). > > Bob > > > On 1/4/2021 8:16 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: >> >> >>> On Jan 4, 2021, at 8:14 AM, eric at megageek.com >>> wrote: >>> >>> I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains >>> horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down >>> from the bottom of the oil pan.) ?This make's oil changes SO much >>> harder and messier. >> >> I'm not usually a conpsiracy theorist, but perhaps this is to coerce >> owners to have it serviced at the dealer, where they suck oil out >> through the dipstick tube? >> >> The engineer in me wants to say it's for protection from ground >> damage (do kids jump railroad tracks anymore?). >> >> I'm about to buy an oil sucker outer in case anyone has one they >> recommend. The Mity-vac looks nice at at $180 it'll be paid for after >> 2 dealer oil changes :-D >> >> jim >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Mon Jan 4 11:17:07 2021 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 13:17:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: <3590978b-e24c-63bb-e55c-6af166e0f7fb@comcast.net> References: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> <22e9d067-522f-c2cf-9fca-708846066f99@comcast.net> <3590978b-e24c-63bb-e55c-6af166e0f7fb@comcast.net> Message-ID: For those that care, my Ublock software flagged this link for ad tracking. Can you tell me the mfg Bob? I've heard very mixed and extreme reviews about MityVac :-( jim > On Jan 4, 2021, at 12:54 PM, Bob Spidell wrote: > > This is from an Amazon-native search (no 'gclid'). > > On 1/4/2021 9:28 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: >> I bought one similar to this (there's various brands/prices that all look pretty much the same; I'd wager they're all made in the same Chinese factory): >> >> https://tinyurl.com/y964denv >> >> It does the job (15L versions are available). I mainly use if for small engines, so haven't tried the pneumatic feature yet. >> >> I haven't been impressed with MityVac products (one of their vacuum pumps failed on me after only a couple uses). >> >> Bob >> >> >> On 1/4/2021 8:16 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 4, 2021, at 8:14 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: >>>> >>>> I notice that just about EVERY modern's car drain plug drains horizontally and not vertically (where the plug come straight down from the bottom of the oil pan.) This make's oil changes SO much harder and messier. >>> >>> I'm not usually a conpsiracy theorist, but perhaps this is to coerce owners to have it serviced at the dealer, where they suck oil out through the dipstick tube? >>> >>> The engineer in me wants to say it's for protection from ground damage (do kids jump railroad tracks anymore?). >>> >>> I'm about to buy an oil sucker outer in case anyone has one they recommend. The Mity-vac looks nice at at $180 it'll be paid for after 2 dealer oil changes :-D >>> >>> jim >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhlocker at comcast.net Mon Jan 4 11:17:11 2021 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 13:17:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tubes of chassis grease In-Reply-To: <0686693e-60fb-8b2f-3628-52b89a41a72c@comcast.net> References: <2f02fef9-a746-d5bd-2414-0eac6dc67fef@comcast.net> <3815e503-fc45-2cef-39d4-839e165d2646@comcast.net> <0686693e-60fb-8b2f-3628-52b89a41a72c@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0b5218dd-0b9a-33e8-7f3d-781acd213b3f@comcast.net> Though true that the destination's page may be hacked or the DNS address to the desired destination may be hijacked, at some point one must trust that the system is reasonably secure. tinyurl obscures the destination, so there is absolutely no way to know where one is going. Note that removing the google click-tracker ("?gclid=" plus 313 characters) reduced the length of the URL to a very reasonable 38 characters, of which only 26 are required for any modern browser to securely connect to the page. When I go through a search engine, I always try copying and pasting the link, then removing the click tracker ID before executing the "go" command. The click traker ID is generally unnecessary and always invasive :-) For the truly curious, if you click on the tinyurl link, you will get to the same link I shared with these extra 230 characters: "?gclid=Cj0KCQiAlsv_BRDtARIsAHMGVSaJ6H7UZqtq8wDeFX1Xb8Gz9mymbdBNq2016x-zO9pgvpLMNWvaVDQaAs2YEALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=Cj0KCQiAlsv_BRDtARIsAHMGVSaJ6H7UZqtq8wDeFX1Xb8Gz9mymbdBNq2016x-zO9pgvpLMNWvaVDQaAs2YEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!456245466658!!!g!470562012602!&gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-1365:3GRDHM:20511231" attached, which is how Google knows where and when you come and go; they also know then that Bob shared the link and how many people followed the link that Bob shared! Removing the "?gclid" just increases your (and Bob's) personal privacy a bit. Donald. -- On 2021-01-04 12:49 p.m., Bob Spidell wrote: > Gee, and I thought I was being nice by not sending a 700-char URL (what > you get when you go through a search engine) ;) > > Note apparently legit-looking URLs can be malicious, too, if someone's > DNS--a notoriously unsecure protocol--server has been compromised. > > On 1/4/2021 9:13 AM, Donald H Locker wrote: >> For those who are (properly) leery of tinyurl (which can point to all >> kinds of malware-infested locations) the product is Mobilgrease? XHP >> 222, Blue, Lithium Complex, Multipurpose Grease, 13.7 oz, 2 NLGI Grade >> >> WWGrainger is one vendor. https://www.grainger.com/product/1MUC1 is >> their page for it. >> >> [I use a special configuration of a secure browser for such >> investigations; normally, I just let them pass because it's a major >> pain, but good lubes are close to my heart.] >> >> Donald. >> -- >> >> On 2021-01-04 11:49 a.m., Bob Spidell wrote: >>> I've had tubes of this stuff sitting on the shelf for years with no >>> apparent separation: >>> >>> *https://tinyurl.com/y7vbdcec* >>> >>> On 1/4/2021 3:39 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:56 PM John Mitchell wrote: >>>>> ? There's no way for me to use an entire tube at >>>>> once. >>>> May not help you, but I bought a mini-grease gun that uses 3 ounce >>>> cartridges.? If I do have one get squidgy, I'm not wasting as much.? I >>>> don't own a tractor or a combine, so I don't need anything bigger. >>>> > From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jan 4 11:21:44 2021 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 10:21:44 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: References: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> <22e9d067-522f-c2cf-9fca-708846066f99@comcast.net> <3590978b-e24c-63bb-e55c-6af166e0f7fb@comcast.net> Message-ID: This one is 'Four Uncles' brand (sounds Chinese, don't it?). There's a half-dozen or more that look identical; I picked the lowest-priced (just go to Amazon and search for 'oil extractor' or similar). I'd bet money MityVac is made in China now. On 1/4/2021 10:17 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > For those that care, my Ublock software flagged this link for ad > tracking. > > Can you tell me the mfg Bob? I've heard very mixed and extreme reviews > about MityVac :-( > > jim > >> On Jan 4, 2021, at 12:54 PM, Bob Spidell > > wrote: >> >> This is from an Amazon-native search (no 'gclid'). >> >> On 1/4/2021 9:28 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: >>> I bought one similar to this (there's various brands/prices that all >>> look pretty much the same; I'd wager they're all made in the same >>> Chinese factory): >>> >>> *https://tinyurl.com/y964denv* >>> >>> It does the job (15L versions are available). I mainly use if for >>> small engines, so haven't tried the pneumatic feature yet. >>> >>> I haven't been impressed with MityVac products (one of their vacuum >>> pumps failed on me after only a couple uses). >>> >>> Bob >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Mon Jan 4 11:36:09 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:36:09 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? In-Reply-To: <2bba8a67-8e4b-3293-3281-812bfd2ce2f2@mebtel.net> References: <5FBBEADF-A098-41BB-BC0D-B770435C2306@groupwbench.org> <2bba8a67-8e4b-3293-3281-812bfd2ce2f2@mebtel.net> Message-ID: You remember Csaba Csere in "Car and Driver"? He wrote a column about cooking with your car--like wrapping food in foil pouches a la the Boy Scouts and driving on a trip until the food is done. I always think of that column when I suck oil out of my filter housing with that thing. On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 11:22 AM Eric Russell wrote: > On 1/4/2021 11:33 AM, Scott Hall wrote: > > > a $3 turkey baster from Wal-Mart accomplishes the same thing. > > Note to self; Decline Thanksgiving dinner invitation from Scott. > > EjR > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Mon Jan 4 14:55:39 2021 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 13:55:39 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] car cooking (was: oil extraction) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74d6fcac-3ef5-f553-8e5f-07843f9f8167@threeboysfarm.com> In keeping with the limited links being sent: search for the book 'Manifold Destiny" to get the whole book of cooking with engine heat. Regards, Mark Miller 707-490-5834 markmiller at threeboysfarm.com On 1/4/2021 11:00 AM, shop-talk-request at autox.team.net wrote: > essage: 2 > Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:36:09 -0600 > From: Scott Hall > To: Eric Russell > Cc:"shop-talk at autox.team.net" > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Oil plugs, WHY? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > You remember Csaba Csere in "Car and Driver"? He wrote a column about > cooking with your car--like wrapping food in foil pouches a la the Boy > Scouts and driving on a trip until the food is done. > > I always think of that column when I suck oil out of my filter housing with > that thing. From patintexas at icloud.com Mon Jan 4 16:19:26 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:19:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] car cooking (was: oil extraction) Message-ID: In 1958 dad had a new VW microbus that he drove to Mexico City from Los Angeles with us 2 kids & mom. Right on top of the intake manifold there were places he used to heat canned food. About 45 minutes & lunch was ready. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 4, 2021, at 3:59 PM, Mark Miller wrote: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Sun Jan 10 08:58:13 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 15:58:13 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver Message-ID: Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Thanks all tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjzwissler at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 09:04:26 2021 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Benjamin Zwissler) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:04:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I bought the DeWalt drill and impact driver (20V I think) a couple of years ago and couldn't be happier with them. The crew that built my new pole building last summer also used them and said they were the best for the money. Ben On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 10:59 AM Tim . wrote: > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those > emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are > both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can > fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am > willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out > there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier > than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am > just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the > start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjcora at icloud.com Sun Jan 10 09:13:50 2021 From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:13:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I?ve become a big fan of Milwaukee 18V. I have a corded Milwaukee circular saw that I picked up at an estate sale years ago for maybe 10 bucks, which I simply can?t kill, but had started down the cordless road with a DeWalt 12V drill. When that reached end of life - probably 10-12 years ago - my wife bought me a Milwaukee. Since then, I have added a circular saw and an oscillating saw. All use common batteries, so didn?t even bother getting batteries or charger with the oscillating saw (as I already have 4 batteries and 2 chargers). For what I do, the batteries charge faster than I can run them down (1 on the tool, 1 in the charger), so I can work a full day without that being an issue. My $0.02. Tom Coradeschi tjcora at icloud.com > On Jan 10, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Tim . wrote: > > ? > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Sun Jan 10 09:14:35 2021 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:14:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I always love my dewalts. They are top performers (or near top) most of the time. Great price. Be careful as some of the big boxes sell their lower tier items (brush vs brushless motors, etc.) One place where I am VERY disappointed with Dewalt is their battery chainsaw. It works OK, but the Milwaukee is so far superior. I may buy one and have two battery standards. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? From: "Tim ." To: "Shop Talk" Date: 01/10/2021 10:59 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver Sent by: "Shop-talk" Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Thanks all tim_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sun Jan 10 09:16:19 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 10:16:19 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1F177077-6D5F-4740-803D-4B73E26E30FF@icloud.com> Since you say that you are not a contractor, you won?t be needing the biggest drill/driver you can afford. I think the most bang for the buck falls @ the 12 volt units. If you need more power for the 10% of your work you can break out the extension cord & your current drill. I now the real debate. Brand. I?ve been using DeWalt since the early 90s. Why? In the beginning they were the best fit for my needs & wallet. I?ve upgraded a few times in those years & am still satisfied with them. I did use them for construction work, building many houses for Habitat for Humanity as well as 2 for myself. Milwaukee seems to be getting a lot of good press these days but I haven?t used any so I can?t speak to them. Once you start with a brand you can add additional tools as needed by buying bare tools & share the batteries you already have. One additional tool that I should have bought way earlier than I did is a 1/4? impact. I now reach for it more than I do my drill. You mentioned that weight wasn?t a problem. One side of lighter is that the lighter batteries are usually more powerful than the older battery types. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Tim . wrote: ? Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Thanks all tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ejrussell61 at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 09:16:19 2021 From: ejrussell61 at gmail.com (Eric Russell) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:16:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like the DeWalt Drill & Impact Driver I got a few years ago. I bought a second drill to keep in our motorhome. But out of the four batteries I have, two no longer hold a charge. And new batteries cost as much or more than buying a drill/driver set. But it seems like the manufacturers change the battery connections every couple of years - so the new versions no longer work with the older drills. If you want more than a drill I'd suggest buying the whole shebang so the batteries are interchangeable. Eric On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:58 AM Tim . wrote: > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those > emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are > both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can > fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am > willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out > there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier > than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am > just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the > start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ejrussell61 at gmail.com > > -- Eric Russell Mebane, NC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sun Jan 10 09:19:28 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 10:19:28 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <211ECE41-0CE0-416A-9B21-71D993090285@icloud.com> Oh, one other thing. I?ve been buying a fair number of reconditioned tookk on s. They are usually something that someone bought, used, then returned. Check out CPO.com Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Tim . wrote: ? Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Thanks all tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parkanzky at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 09:21:00 2021 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:21:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use Bosch cordless tools and I am very happy with them, but my friend has Milwaukee and they have the best selection of tools right now. They have a cordless impact gun that makes 1400 ft.-lbs of torque!!! I have two full sets and a bunch of batteries for the Bosch stuff but one of these days I'm going to have to bite the bullet and make the switch to red. Regards, -Paul On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:59 AM Tim . wrote: > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those > emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are > both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can > fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am > willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out > there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier > than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am > just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the > start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sun Jan 10 09:21:26 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 10:21:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AB9FD98-F331-4A5C-9B3A-85D79398A69B@icloud.com> Oops, it?s cpooutlets.com Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Tim . wrote: ? Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Thanks all tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Sun Jan 10 09:24:00 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 16:24:00 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks guys. Guess I am clueless on this: what is better brushless or brush motors? As for cpooutlets.com, as I said, I have a $100 menards rebate check to start the purchase. tim ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 9:58 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Thanks all tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sun Jan 10 09:28:08 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 10:28:08 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29423C6B-E8AB-4318-BC39-606AEDBD1DE6@icloud.com> Eric, All my DeWalts are old enough to have brushes, I?ve not been disappointed. Drill(3), impact (2), reciprocating saw, circular saw, all 18 Volt, converted to 20 Volt battery. Brushless are probably much better but for home use it may not be a factor. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2021, at 10:19 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: ?I always love my dewalts. They are top performers (or near top) most of the time. Great price. Be careful as some of the big boxes sell their lower tier items (brush vs brushless motors, etc.) One place where I am VERY disappointed with Dewalt is their battery chainsaw. It works OK, but the Milwaukee is so far superior. I may buy one and have two battery standards. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? From: "Tim ." To: "Shop Talk" Date: 01/10/2021 10:59 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver Sent by: "Shop-talk" Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Thanks all tim_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sun Jan 10 09:49:35 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 10:49:35 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I mentioned CPO for future tools & accessories. Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2021, at 10:40 AM, Tim . wrote: ? Thanks guys. Guess I am clueless on this: what is better brushless or brush motors? As for cpooutlets.com, as I said, I have a $100 menards rebate check to start the purchase. tim From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 9:58 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Thanks all tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdinnis at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 10:03:59 2021 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:03:59 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Was Cordless drill/screw driver NOW electric Saws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Which Dewalt chainsaw do you have? I got the 60v version and it is definitely better than any other small saw I have ever used, gas or electric. It cuts quicker and easier tham my Stihl MS120. It will never replace the MS250 for big jobs, but for limbing and bucking I like it a lot. I also have the 20v pole saw, and it is a little limited in terms of power, it still gets the job done. One thing I have found is that the pole saw is really sensitive to being dull. The first dozen or so cuts after I sharpen the chain, it cuts great, after that it goes downhill pretty quick. Part of that is the length of the chain, a shorter chain is always going to dull quicker than a longer one, because each tooth comes around more often. Part of it is the fine pitch of the chain. On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:19 AM wrote: > I always love my dewalts. They are top performers (or near top) most of > the time. Great price. Be careful as some of the big boxes sell their > lower tier items (brush vs brushless motors, etc.) > > One place where I am VERY disappointed with Dewalt is their battery > chainsaw. It works OK, but the Milwaukee is so far superior. I may buy > one and have two battery standards. > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > > > > From: "Tim ." > To: "Shop Talk" > Date: 01/10/2021 10:59 > Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver > Sent by: "Shop-talk" > ------------------------------ > > > > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those > emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are > both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can > fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am > willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out > there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier > than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am > just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the > start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdinnis at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 10:06:11 2021 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:06:11 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You want the brushless motors. They are much more efficient, so you get more power and longer battery life for a given sized and weight of tool. I have both a brushed and brushless 1/4 Dewalt impact. The brushed motor gets the job done, but the brushless is way better. On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:40 AM Tim . wrote: > Thanks guys. > > Guess I am clueless on this: what is better brushless or brush motors? > > As for cpooutlets.com, as I said, I have a $100 menards rebate check to > start the purchase. > > tim > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . < > tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2021 9:58 AM > *To:* Shop Talk > *Subject:* [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver > > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those > emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are > both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can > fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am > willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out > there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier > than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am > just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the > start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Sun Jan 10 10:07:07 2021 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:07:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com Message-ID: So, I never heard of this site before, so I wanted to check them out. Their site is really slow and most egregiously of them is there "price in cart" method of pricing. I was willing to try them out, so I checked out their sales. Half of the items show no price until you click at least twice into it. This is pathetic. Even more so with a relatively slow site. I'm always looking for other places to buy tools than the big A, but who in their right minds thinks that by hiding a price, I'll be happy to keep clicking only to find out it's not a deal at all? When they learn to put their prices up front, I'll be happy to look into them again. (maybe this feedback will get back to them.) Just venting. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sun Jan 10 10:16:36 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:16:36 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0ACCB893-A52C-485B-99BF-7A6761DA56EC@icloud.com> Hmm. They used to post their prices up front. I haven?t visited them in a year or so. I?m with you. I don?t do business with this kind of site so they can harvest my information but since they already have mine I?ll play their games to check. Send me the link to a tool you are interested in pricing & I?ll play their game. Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2021, at 11:11 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: ?So, I never heard of this site before, so I wanted to check them out. Their site is really slow and most egregiously of them is there "price in cart" method of pricing. I was willing to try them out, so I checked out their sales. Half of the items show no price until you click at least twice into it. This is pathetic. Even more so with a relatively slow site. I'm always looking for other places to buy tools than the big A, but who in their right minds thinks that by hiding a price, I'll be happy to keep clicking only to find out it's not a deal at all? When they learn to put their prices up front, I'll be happy to look into them again. (maybe this feedback will get back to them.) Just venting. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sun Jan 10 10:19:34 2021 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:19:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12E4A1D2-72C8-4FC3-963C-E5EF5D3C4A9A@groupwbench.org> Another DeWalt fan here. I'm sure the Milwaukees are just fine, but I bought into the platform. For regular around the house stuff Ryobi is surprisingly good, but they may not be at Menard's. As for the 12v vs 18/20v stuff (I've read the 20v is really an 18v with extra marketing power), I had a 12v Black & Decker drill a long time ago, and liked it so much I replaced the batteries, and then the motor. Eventually the housing cracked and I moved to the 20v DeWalt. If I were just buying for general household, I'd choose a modern 18v Ryobi over a 12v. jim > On Jan 10, 2021, at 10:58 AM, Tim . wrote: > > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sun Jan 10 10:39:53 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:39:53 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: <12E4A1D2-72C8-4FC3-963C-E5EF5D3C4A9A@groupwbench.org> References: <12E4A1D2-72C8-4FC3-963C-E5EF5D3C4A9A@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <04B558FB-1596-4F1A-81AE-A885508EC4BD@icloud.com> Yup, 20 volt is mainly marketing but also a Change to a better battery technology. 18 volt is measured under load while 20 volt is measured open circuit so the tool doesn?t see any difference between them. DeWalt has an adapter to allow 20 volt batteries to be used in most 18 volt tools. BTW, last time I checked DeWalt didn?t sell 18 volt batteries any more. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 10, 2021, at 11:32 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: ?Another DeWalt fan here. I'm sure the Milwaukees are just fine, but I bought into the platform. For regular around the house stuff Ryobi is surprisingly good, but they may not be at Menard's. As for the 12v vs 18/20v stuff (I've read the 20v is really an 18v with extra marketing power), I had a 12v Black & Decker drill a long time ago, and liked it so much I replaced the batteries, and then the motor. Eventually the housing cracked and I moved to the 20v DeWalt. If I were just buying for general household, I'd choose a modern 18v Ryobi over a 12v. jim > On Jan 10, 2021, at 10:58 AM, Tim . wrote: > > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Sun Jan 10 10:56:13 2021 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:56:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: <04B558FB-1596-4F1A-81AE-A885508EC4BD@icloud.com> References: <12E4A1D2-72C8-4FC3-963C-E5EF5D3C4A9A@groupwbench.org> <04B558FB-1596-4F1A-81AE-A885508EC4BD@icloud.com> Message-ID: Pet Writes- >DeWalt has an adapter to allow 20 volt batteries to be used in most 18 volt tools. I wrote about this adapter here before. It was a reason I didn't switch from Dewalt when the LiIon revolution came out. This allowed me to not only use all the tools I already had with the new batteries, but after a little bit of time, the old 18v stuff was so deeply discounted (since everyone bought the newer technologies) that I picked up a bunch of 'nice to have' tools and spare tools that I used all the time for next to nothing. All of my 18v tools from over 24 years ago are still working and I use them often. I don't think any other manufacture did this at the time. BTW, you can now buy adaptors to use anyone's batteries in anyone else's tools. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Sun Jan 10 11:16:05 2021 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:16:05 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1c0877b2-af4f-49fd-0632-b4f2aec6020f@bradakis.com> On 1/10/21 8:58 AM, Tim . wrote: > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed?ad nauseam?but I didn't save any of > those emails..... > I did.? Or I should say Team Net did.? At the bottom of every real time list message is a link to list archives.? One is the pipermail archiving built into Mailman, the other to a searchable system cobbled together from fairly ancient, no longer supported software that is held together with rusty baling wire and waterlogged duct tape.? Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't. mjb, overpaid and underworked Team Net janitor. From dhlocker at comcast.net Sun Jan 10 13:04:22 2021 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 15:04:22 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Curious. I just visited and all the pages I went to had prices listed (but see below.) I do have Firefox with NoScript and my default settings disable JavaScript on all sites, so that may make a difference. I did turn on JavaScript just for cpooutlets.com (not for all the rest of the scripts and ad-collectors they seem to run) and still saw prices. Maybe its just loading too slowly for you. Hmmm. well, I found one item with a "see price in cart" ("Milwaukee 48-22-9407 7 Pc Combination Wrench Set - SAE") The note attached says "price is below MSRP, so can't be displayed" or words to that effect. Donald. *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ On 2021-01-10 12:07 p.m., eric at megageek.com wrote: > So, I never heard of this site before, so I wanted to check them out. > > Their site is really slow and most egregiously of them is there "price > in cart" method of pricing. > > I was willing to try them out, so I checked out their sales. ?Half of > the items show no price until you click at least twice into it. ?This is > pathetic. ?Even more so with a relatively slow site. > > I'm always looking for other places to buy tools than the big A, but who > in their right minds thinks that by hiding a price, I'll be happy to > keep clicking only to find out it's not a deal at all? > > ?When they learn to put their prices up front, I'll be happy to look > into them again. ?(maybe this feedback will get back to them.) > > Just venting. > > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a > rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your > territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net > From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 13:52:53 2021 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:52:53 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D436619-32CD-41AB-9E64-2275D9FBBD74@gmail.com> > On Jan 10, 2021, at 11:10, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > ?So, I never heard of this site before, so I wanted to check them out. > > Their site is really slow and most egregiously of them is there "price in cart" method of pricing. > Lots of tool companies have minimum advertised prices. Can?t advertise a lower price, but you can sell for less. The site has always has worked fine for me, too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fishplate at gmail.com Sun Jan 10 18:34:43 2021 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 20:34:43 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What about Ryobi? I got started with them through their outlet store, and have acquired a good set of tools that I've been using for over ten years. Only had one battery fail, and that may have been the reason it was in the outlet store in the first place. They have a pretty complete line of tools - all except a chainsaw. At work, I just outfitted a new crew with Milwaukee tools -18V Fuel, for the most part. But I spent about 5 times more than I did for the equivalent Ryobi tools. They will use them every day, though. On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:59 AM Tim . wrote: > > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. > > So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). > > Thanks all > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com > From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Sun Jan 10 19:22:09 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 02:22:09 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] archive ...was Re: Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: <1c0877b2-af4f-49fd-0632-b4f2aec6020f@bradakis.com> References: , <1c0877b2-af4f-49fd-0632-b4f2aec6020f@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Hey Mark, Yea, I know about the archive. I was wanted the most up to date bits I could get. cheers ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 12:16 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver On 1/10/21 8:58 AM, Tim . wrote: > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of > those emails..... > I did. Or I should say Team Net did. At the bottom of every real time list message is a link to list archives. One is the pipermail archiving built into Mailman, the other to a searchable system cobbled together from fairly ancient, no longer supported software that is held together with rusty baling wire and waterlogged duct tape. Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't. mjb, overpaid and underworked Team Net janitor. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Sun Jan 10 19:34:43 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 02:34:43 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] archive ...was Re: Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: , <1c0877b2-af4f-49fd-0632-b4f2aec6020f@bradakis.com>, Message-ID: "I was wanted....." ..... FFS...sorry all ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 8:22 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] archive ...was Re: Cordless drill/screw driver Hey Mark, Yea, I know about the archive. I was wanted the most up to date bits I could get. cheers ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 12:16 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver On 1/10/21 8:58 AM, Tim . wrote: > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of > those emails..... > I did. Or I should say Team Net did. At the bottom of every real time list message is a link to list archives. One is the pipermail archiving built into Mailman, the other to a searchable system cobbled together from fairly ancient, no longer supported software that is held together with rusty baling wire and waterlogged duct tape. Sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn't. mjb, overpaid and underworked Team Net janitor. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 06:30:48 2021 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 07:30:48 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 10, 2021, at 09:59, Tim . wrote: > > ? > Hey all, > > I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... > > I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the be Given the constraint of menards, I think the only real choice is makita as that is what they sell. > Unsubscribe > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Mon Jan 11 06:38:17 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:38:17 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210110225843.04adea18@cox.net> References: , <6.2.5.6.1.20210110225843.04adea18@cox.net> Message-ID: I didn't say I was going to spend 320. I said "if necessary". I already have a mitre saw. In fact, I have a full shop including 80-gallon compressor, blast cabinet, parts washer, panel beating tools, and a boat load of hand tools. I simply want the best cordless drill/screw driver out there. My experience with ryobi is that they don't hold up to even how much I use them. tim ________________________________ From: John T. Blair Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:09 PM To: Tim . Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver At 10:58 AM 1/10/2021, Tim wrote: >I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both >burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the >bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least >match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. ...... >I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this >won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like >whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Tim, If you are not going to be using it every day, why do you want to spend a ton of money on a cordless drill. You say you have $160 burning a hole in your pocket and are willing to put another $160 to that. Man that $320!!!! You can get a Roybi or such for say $100. Usually around Xmas which you just missed, you can get a Roybi kit with a drill, saw, and another tool for less than $150. That's where I'd put the first $160. Then I'd look at something else like a sliding compound miter saw, or a nail gun or two, or some other tools. Now that being said, let me say I buy a lot of Harbor Freight tools. And for the occassional use they work well. I have a $25 ish oscillating saw, which I've used for something over 5 yrs. It just died in the middle of a remodel in a bedroom. So I bought another. Especially if you don't know what you're going to use it for. I also have a cheap $20 H.F. recriprocating saw that has paid for it's self. If I'd have bought a $100 to $300 version of either of these tools, I'd never had really gotten my money worth out of the tool. I'm 72 and it's getting harder and harder every day for me to do a lot of the things I used to do, like bend over. :) So why should I pay for a tool that would last me for the next 30 years or so, if I'm only going to be around for another 10 years? Spend a little less money on a tool, and get more of them. Especially if it not your bread and butter. John 2 Thanks all tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948 at cox.net ________________________________ [Avast logo] This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! >From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Mon Jan 11 06:39:23 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:39:23 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: "Given the constraint of menards, I think the only real choice is makita as that is what they sell." ooooo....I wondered about that. ________________________________ From: David Scheidt Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 7:30 AM To: Tim . Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver On Jan 10, 2021, at 09:59, Tim . wrote: ? Hey all, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those emails..... I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the be Given the constraint of menards, I think the only real choice is makita as that is what they sell. Unsubscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jan 11 09:45:03 2021 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 08:45:03 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210110225843.04adea18@cox.net> Message-ID: Others have said it, but I'll reiterate: Pick a battery/voltage, then acquire the tools that go with it. If you get a cordless drill, eventually you'll want a cordless impact 'wrench'--for lug nuts if nothing else--a 'sawzall'? (equivalent), a circular saw, etc. Buy a combo kit, with a battery and charger included, to start. I went with DeWalt 20V 'XR' brushless, because of mostly positive reviews and, whether it's merit or good product placement by the marketeers (probably both), they seem to be the most popular among the mechanics, farmers, etc. on the quasi-reality TV shows (Stihl gets the nod for gas chainsaws, with Husqvarna second). I bought a cordless DeWalt hedger, slightly discounted because it was a display model, thinking "Sure, it'll do a couple bushes then quit," but we did my mom's whole (large) backyard on a single 4Ah battery. The tool that drains the battery fastest is my 4&1/2" angle grinder/sander/wirebrusher, probably because it runs more continuously and has an 'open circuit' load; I get about 20mins on a 4Ah battery. I have a full complement of pneumatic and corded electric tools--many are Harbor Freight, for occasional use--that are mostly collecting dust these days; it's just not worth unraveling an extension cord or firing up the compressor for a quick, one-off job . One of my faves is an old Makita 9V driver/drill, which can't hold a candle for power to the DeWalt--and replacement Chinese batteries are hit-or-miss--but it keeps soldiering-on. Makita stuff is top-notch, but I haven't seen the variety of tools--doesn't mean they don't have them--that DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc. have on display. Bob On 1/11/2021 5:38 AM, Tim . wrote: > I didn't say I was going to spend 320. I said "if necessary". > > I already have a mitre saw. In fact, I have a full shop including > 80-gallon compressor, blast cabinet, parts washer, panel beating > tools, and a boat load of hand tools. > > I simply want the best cordless drill/screw driver out there. My > experience with ryobi is that they don't hold up to even how much I > use them. > > tim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* John T. Blair > *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:09 PM > *To:* Tim . > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver > At 10:58 AM 1/10/2021, Tim wrote: > > >I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that > are both > >burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can > fit in the > >bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing > to at least > >match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. > > ...... > > >I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not > contractor and this > >won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. > I'd like > >whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, > Sawzall, etc). > > Tim, > > If you are not going to be using it every day, why do you want to > spend a ton of > money on a cordless drill.? You say you have $160 burning a hole in > your pocket > and are willing to put another $160 to that.? Man that $320!!!!? You > can get a > Roybi or such for say $100.? Usually around Xmas which you just > missed, you can > get a Roybi kit with a drill, saw, and another tool for less than > $150.? That's where > I'd put the first $160.? Then I'd look at something else like a > sliding compound > miter saw, or a nail gun or two, or some other tools. > > Now that being said, let me say I buy a lot of Harbor Freight tools.? > And for the > occassional use they work well.? I have a $25 ish oscillating saw, > which I've used > for something over 5 yrs.? It just died in the middle of a remodel in > a bedroom. > So I bought another.? Especially if you don't know what you're going > to use it for. > I also have a cheap $20 H.F. recriprocating saw that has paid for it's > self.? If I'd > have bought a $100 to $300 version of either of these tools, I'd never > had really > gotten my money worth out of the tool.? I'm 72 and it's getting harder > and harder > every day for me to do a lot of the things I used to do, like bend > over. :)? So why > should I pay for a tool that would last me for the next 30 years or > so, if I'm only > going to be around for another 10 years? > > Spend a little less money on a tool, and get more of them. Especially > if it not your > bread and butter. > > John > > > ?2 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Mon Jan 11 09:50:08 2021 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 11:50:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Any Model Steam Boat builders out there? Message-ID: My elderly neighbor is getting rid of a bunch of books and such about model steam engines and wanted to try and find someone that would like them. Are you, or do you know of anyone that might be interested? If so, let me know. (shop content) this guys builds full size steam boats then a scale model of the same boat. Pretty impressive stuff. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stearman809 at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 10:20:44 2021 From: stearman809 at gmail.com (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 11:20:44 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210110225843.04adea18@cox.net> Message-ID: <176f276d9e0.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> About 2000 I decided to take the plunge into a decent cordless drill/driver. I opted for a 14.4 volt DeWalt over their much heavier 18 volt. Built my hangar, did loads of remodeling, on and on. Battery life was ok till the NiCad haunts set in, and after one replacement set of DeWalt originals I switched to Amazon or eBay NiMH knockoff packs and had great luck. Recently we've been adding onto the house and remodeling, and after watching various subcontractors I just had to have a 1/4" impact driver and a hammer drill. Old loyalty to DeWalt was strong, but I eventually spent a touch more for Milwaukee Fuel. Before Christmas I got a combination kit with the best hammer drill and best impact driver, three 5AH Red Lithium batteries, and a charger. $450. I felt bad about spending the money, but after installing a floor in the attic, rebuilding a wall downstairs, running loads of screws, and then taking the impact out to work on the cars and snowblowers a few times, I wish I'd bought this years ago. Battery life is incredible. Hours of work and I've only recharged batteries once, when I got down to 2 bars, and I still haven't even opened the third battery. Power is incredible. The impact won't take off lug nuts, but then I haven't actually tried. I'm sure (once I buy one) the 1/2" will beat the pants off my disappointing HF Earthquake 1/2" impact. Close to a religious experience. Highly recommended. On January 11, 2021 10:45:30 AM Bob Spidell wrote: > Others have said it, but I'll reiterate: Pick a battery/voltage, then > acquire the tools that go with it. If you get a cordless drill, eventually > you'll want a cordless impact 'wrench'--for lug nuts if nothing else--a > 'sawzall' (equivalent), a circular saw, etc. Buy a combo kit, with a > battery and charger included, to start. > > I went with DeWalt 20V 'XR' brushless, because of mostly positive reviews > and, whether it's merit or good product placement by the marketeers > (probably both), they seem to be the most popular among the mechanics, > farmers, etc. on the quasi-reality TV shows (Stihl gets the nod for gas > chainsaws, with Husqvarna second). I bought a cordless DeWalt hedger, > slightly discounted because it was a display model, thinking "Sure, it'll > do a couple bushes then quit," but we did my mom's whole (large) backyard > on a single 4Ah battery. The tool that drains the battery fastest is my > 4&1/2" angle grinder/sander/wirebrusher, probably because it runs more > continuously and has an 'open circuit' load; I get about 20mins on a 4Ah > battery. > > I have a full complement of pneumatic and corded electric tools--many are > Harbor Freight, for occasional use--that are mostly collecting dust these > days; it's just not worth unraveling an extension cord or firing up the > compressor for a quick, one-off job . One of my faves is an old Makita 9V > driver/drill, which can't hold a candle for power to the DeWalt--and > replacement Chinese batteries are hit-or-miss--but it keeps soldiering-on. > Makita stuff is top-notch, but I haven't seen the variety of tools--doesn't > mean they don't have them--that DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc. have on display. > > Bob > > > On 1/11/2021 5:38 AM, Tim . wrote: >> I didn't say I was going to spend 320. I said "if necessary". >> >> I already have a mitre saw. In fact, I have a full shop including 80-gallon >> compressor, blast cabinet, parts washer, panel beating tools, and a boat >> load of hand tools. >> >> I simply want the best cordless drill/screw driver out there. My experience >> with ryobi is that they don't hold up to even how much I use them. >> >> tim >> >> From: John T. Blair >> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:09 PM >> To: Tim . >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver >> At 10:58 AM 1/10/2021, Tim wrote: >> >>> I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both >>> burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the >>> bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at >>> least >>> match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. >> >> ...... >> >>> I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor >>> and this >>> won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like >>> whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). >> >> Tim, >> >> If you are not going to be using it every day, why do you want to spend a >> ton of >> money on a cordless drill. You say you have $160 burning a hole in your pocket >> and are willing to put another $160 to that. Man that $320!!!! You can get a >> Roybi or such for say $100. Usually around Xmas which you just missed, you can >> get a Roybi kit with a drill, saw, and another tool for less than $150. >> That's where >> I'd put the first $160. Then I'd look at something else like a sliding >> compound >> miter saw, or a nail gun or two, or some other tools. >> >> Now that being said, let me say I buy a lot of Harbor Freight tools. And >> for the >> occassional use they work well. I have a $25 ish oscillating saw, which >> I've used >> for something over 5 yrs. It just died in the middle of a remodel in a >> bedroom. >> So I bought another. Especially if you don't know what you're going to use >> it for. >> I also have a cheap $20 H.F. recriprocating saw that has paid for it's >> self. If I'd >> have bought a $100 to $300 version of either of these tools, I'd never had >> really >> gotten my money worth out of the tool. I'm 72 and it's getting harder and >> harder >> every day for me to do a lot of the things I used to do, like bend over. :) >> So why >> should I pay for a tool that would last me for the next 30 years or so, if >> I'm only >> going to be around for another 10 years? >> >> Spend a little less money on a tool, and get more of them. Especially if >> it not your >> bread and butter. >> >> John >> >> >> 2 > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/stearman809 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parkanzky at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 10:32:04 2021 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:32:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: <176f276d9e0.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210110225843.04adea18@cox.net> <176f276d9e0.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 12:23 PM Karl Vacek wrote: > Power is incredible. The impact won't take off lug nuts, but then I > haven't actually tried. I'm sure (once I buy one) the 1/2" will beat the > pants off my disappointing HF Earthquake 1/2" impact. > You'd be surprised. The 1/4" impacts make 100-120 lb-ft of torque. So they'll remove lug nuts on most cars if they haven't been over-torqued or on there forever. They won't break them free on my 3/4-ton truck or anything like that. But my friend has the 1/2" high-torque impact gun and... 1400 lb-ft of removal torque. We call it "The middle finger of God" because when you put it on a fastner and set the torque to "all of it" then _something_ is going to give. > Close to a religious experience. Highly recommended. > Agreed. I've been a Bosch cordless guy for years but Milwaukee if light-years ahead right now and I'll have a bench covered with red cordless tools when I set my new shop up this summer. -Paul > On January 11, 2021 10:45:30 AM Bob Spidell wrote: > >> Others have said it, but I'll reiterate: Pick a battery/voltage, then >> acquire the tools that go with it. If you get a cordless drill, eventually >> you'll want a cordless impact 'wrench'--for lug nuts if nothing else--a >> 'sawzall' (equivalent), a circular saw, etc. Buy a combo kit, with a >> battery and charger included, to start. >> >> I went with DeWalt 20V 'XR' brushless, because of mostly positive reviews >> and, whether it's merit or good product placement by the marketeers >> (probably both), they seem to be the most popular among the mechanics, >> farmers, etc. on the quasi-reality TV shows (Stihl gets the nod for gas >> chainsaws, with Husqvarna second). I bought a cordless DeWalt hedger, >> slightly discounted because it was a display model, thinking "Sure, it'll >> do a couple bushes then quit," but we did my mom's whole (large) backyard >> on a single 4Ah battery. The tool that drains the battery fastest is my >> 4&1/2" angle grinder/sander/wirebrusher, probably because it runs more >> continuously and has an 'open circuit' load; I get about 20mins on a 4Ah >> battery. >> >> I have a full complement of pneumatic and corded electric tools--many are >> Harbor Freight, for occasional use--that are mostly collecting dust these >> days; it's just not worth unraveling an extension cord or firing up the >> compressor for a quick, one-off job . One of my faves is an old Makita 9V >> driver/drill, which can't hold a candle for power to the DeWalt--and >> replacement Chinese batteries are hit-or-miss--but it keeps soldiering-on. >> Makita stuff is top-notch, but I haven't seen the variety of tools--doesn't >> mean they don't have them--that DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc. have on display. >> >> Bob >> >> On 1/11/2021 5:38 AM, Tim . wrote: >> >> I didn't say I was going to spend 320. I said "if necessary". >> >> I already have a mitre saw. In fact, I have a full shop including >> 80-gallon compressor, blast cabinet, parts washer, panel beating tools, and >> a boat load of hand tools. >> >> I simply want the best cordless drill/screw driver out there. My >> experience with ryobi is that they don't hold up to even how much I use >> them. >> >> tim >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* John T. Blair >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:09 PM >> *To:* Tim . >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver >> >> At 10:58 AM 1/10/2021, Tim wrote: >> >> >I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are >> both >> >burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit >> in the >> >bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to >> at least >> >match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. >> >> ...... >> >> >I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor >> and this >> >won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd >> like >> >whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, >> Sawzall, etc). >> >> Tim, >> >> If you are not going to be using it every day, why do you want to spend a >> ton of >> money on a cordless drill. You say you have $160 burning a hole in your >> pocket >> and are willing to put another $160 to that. Man that $320!!!! You can >> get a >> Roybi or such for say $100. Usually around Xmas which you just missed, >> you can >> get a Roybi kit with a drill, saw, and another tool for less than $150. >> That's where >> I'd put the first $160. Then I'd look at something else like a sliding >> compound >> miter saw, or a nail gun or two, or some other tools. >> >> Now that being said, let me say I buy a lot of Harbor Freight tools. And >> for the >> occassional use they work well. I have a $25 ish oscillating saw, which >> I've used >> for something over 5 yrs. It just died in the middle of a remodel in a >> bedroom. >> So I bought another. Especially if you don't know what you're going to >> use it for. >> I also have a cheap $20 H.F. recriprocating saw that has paid for it's >> self. If I'd >> have bought a $100 to $300 version of either of these tools, I'd never >> had really >> gotten my money worth out of the tool. I'm 72 and it's getting harder >> and harder >> every day for me to do a lot of the things I used to do, like bend over. >> :) So why >> should I pay for a tool that would last me for the next 30 years or so, >> if I'm only >> going to be around for another 10 years? >> >> Spend a little less money on a tool, and get more of them. Especially if >> it not your >> bread and butter. >> >> John >> >> >> 2 >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jan 11 10:41:33 2021 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 09:41:33 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: <176f276d9e0.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210110225843.04adea18@cox.net> <176f276d9e0.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> Message-ID: My DeWalt 1/2" impact wrench has to work at it, but it'll spin the lugnuts off my Mustang wheels (torque spec for the nuts is 150lb-ft). On 1/11/2021 9:20 AM, Karl Vacek wrote: > About 2000 I decided to take the plunge into a decent cordless > drill/driver.? I opted for a 14.4 volt DeWalt over their much heavier > 18 volt.? Built my hangar, did loads of remodeling, on and on.? > Battery life was ok till the NiCad haunts set in, and after one > replacement set of DeWalt originals I switched to Amazon or eBay NiMH > knockoff packs and had great luck. > > Recently we've been adding onto the house and remodeling, and after > watching various subcontractors I just had to have a 1/4" impact > driver and a hammer drill.? Old loyalty to DeWalt was strong, but I > eventually spent a touch more for Milwaukee Fuel.? Before Christmas I > got a combination kit with the best hammer drill and best impact > driver, three 5AH Red Lithium batteries, and a charger.? $450. > > I felt bad about spending the money, but after installing a floor in > the attic, rebuilding a wall downstairs, running loads of screws, and > then taking the impact out to work on the cars and snowblowers a few > times, I wish I'd bought this years ago. > > Battery life is incredible.? Hours of work and I've only recharged > batteries once, when I got down to 2 bars, and I still haven't even > opened the third battery. > > Power is incredible.? The impact won't take off lug nuts, but then I > haven't actually tried.? I'm sure (once I buy one) the 1/2" will beat > the pants off my disappointing HF Earthquake 1/2" impact. > > Close to a religious experience. Highly recommended. > > On January 11, 2021 10:45:30 AM Bob Spidell wrote: > >> Others have said it, but I'll reiterate: Pick a battery/voltage, then >> acquire the tools that go with it. If you get a cordless drill, >> eventually you'll want a cordless impact 'wrench'--for lug nuts if >> nothing else--a 'sawzall'? (equivalent), a circular saw, etc. Buy a >> combo kit, with a battery and charger included, to start. >> >> I went with DeWalt 20V 'XR' brushless, because of mostly positive >> reviews and, whether it's merit or good product placement by the >> marketeers (probably both), they seem to be the most popular among >> the mechanics, farmers, etc. on the quasi-reality TV shows (Stihl >> gets the nod for gas chainsaws, with Husqvarna second). I bought a >> cordless DeWalt hedger, slightly discounted because it was a display >> model, thinking "Sure, it'll do a couple bushes then quit," but we >> did my mom's whole (large) backyard on a single 4Ah battery. The tool >> that drains the battery fastest is my 4&1/2" angle >> grinder/sander/wirebrusher, probably because it runs more >> continuously and has an 'open circuit' load; I get about 20mins on a >> 4Ah battery. >> >> I have a full complement of pneumatic and corded electric tools--many >> are Harbor Freight, for occasional use--that are mostly collecting >> dust these days; it's just not worth unraveling an extension cord or >> firing up the compressor for a quick, one-off job . One of my faves >> is an old Makita 9V driver/drill, which can't hold a candle for power >> to the DeWalt--and replacement Chinese batteries are hit-or-miss--but >> it keeps soldiering-on. Makita stuff is top-notch, but I haven't seen >> the variety of tools--doesn't mean they don't have them--that DeWalt, >> Milwaukee, etc. have on display. >> >> Bob >> >> On 1/11/2021 5:38 AM, Tim . wrote: >>> I didn't say I was going to spend 320. I said "if necessary". >>> >>> I already have a mitre saw. In fact, I have a full shop including >>> 80-gallon compressor, blast cabinet, parts washer, panel beating >>> tools, and a boat load of hand tools. >>> >>> I simply want the best cordless drill/screw driver out there. My >>> experience with ryobi is that they don't hold up to even how much I >>> use them. >>> >>> tim >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* John T. Blair >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:09 PM >>> *To:* Tim . >>> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver >>> At 10:58 AM 1/10/2021, Tim wrote: >>> >>> >I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that >>> are both >>> >burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can >>> fit in the >>> >bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am >>> willing to at least >>> >match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right >>> now. >>> >>> ...... >>> >>> >I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not >>> contractor and this >>> >won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging >>> cords. I'd like >>> >whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, >>> Sawzall, etc). >>> >>> Tim, >>> >>> If you are not going to be using it every day, why do you want to >>> spend a ton of >>> money on a cordless drill.? You say you have $160 burning a hole in >>> your pocket >>> and are willing to put another $160 to that. Man that $320!!!!? You >>> can get a >>> Roybi or such for say $100.? Usually around Xmas which you just >>> missed, you can >>> get a Roybi kit with a drill, saw, and another tool for less than >>> $150.? That's where >>> I'd put the first $160.? Then I'd look at something else like a >>> sliding compound >>> miter saw, or a nail gun or two, or some other tools. >>> >>> Now that being said, let me say I buy a lot of Harbor Freight >>> tools.? And for the >>> occassional use they work well.? I have a $25 ish oscillating saw, >>> which I've used >>> for something over 5 yrs.? It just died in the middle of a remodel >>> in a bedroom. >>> So I bought another.? Especially if you don't know what you're going >>> to use it for. >>> I also have a cheap $20 H.F. recriprocating saw that has paid for >>> it's self.? If I'd >>> have bought a $100 to $300 version of either of these tools, I'd >>> never had really >>> gotten my money worth out of the tool.? I'm 72 and it's getting >>> harder and harder >>> every day for me to do a lot of the things I used to do, like bend >>> over. :)? So why >>> should I pay for a tool that would last me for the next 30 years or >>> so, if I'm only >>> going to be around for another 10 years? >>> >>> Spend a little less money on a tool, and get more of them.? >>> Especially if it not your >>> bread and butter. >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> ?2 >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation? $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/stearman809 at gmail.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdinnis at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 10:49:30 2021 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 11:49:30 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210110225843.04adea18@cox.net> <176f276d9e0.28bf.cd27845553c78383775132770b7455be@gmail.com> Message-ID: My 1/4 Dewalt brushless impact will not remove the lugs from most of my vehicles. It works on the '76 Spitfire, but nothing else. I have been lusting after one of the bigger 1/2" Dewalt impact drivers, but can't justify the cost when I have literally half a dozen 1/2" air impact drivers in the drawer. Maybe one day.... On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:36 AM Paul Parkanzky wrote: > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 12:23 PM Karl Vacek wrote: > >> Power is incredible. The impact won't take off lug nuts, but then I >> haven't actually tried. I'm sure (once I buy one) the 1/2" will beat the >> pants off my disappointing HF Earthquake 1/2" impact. >> > > You'd be surprised. The 1/4" impacts make 100-120 lb-ft of torque. So > they'll remove lug nuts on most cars if they haven't been over-torqued or > on there forever. They won't break them free on my 3/4-ton truck or > anything like that. But my friend has the 1/2" high-torque impact gun > and... 1400 lb-ft of removal torque. We call it "The middle finger of God" > because when you put it on a fastner and set the torque to "all of it" then > _something_ is going to give. > > >> Close to a religious experience. Highly recommended. >> > > Agreed. I've been a Bosch cordless guy for years but Milwaukee if > light-years ahead right now and I'll have a bench covered with red cordless > tools when I set my new shop up this summer. > > -Paul > > >> On January 11, 2021 10:45:30 AM Bob Spidell wrote: >> >>> Others have said it, but I'll reiterate: Pick a battery/voltage, then >>> acquire the tools that go with it. If you get a cordless drill, eventually >>> you'll want a cordless impact 'wrench'--for lug nuts if nothing else--a >>> 'sawzall' (equivalent), a circular saw, etc. Buy a combo kit, with a >>> battery and charger included, to start. >>> >>> I went with DeWalt 20V 'XR' brushless, because of mostly positive >>> reviews and, whether it's merit or good product placement by the marketeers >>> (probably both), they seem to be the most popular among the mechanics, >>> farmers, etc. on the quasi-reality TV shows (Stihl gets the nod for gas >>> chainsaws, with Husqvarna second). I bought a cordless DeWalt hedger, >>> slightly discounted because it was a display model, thinking "Sure, it'll >>> do a couple bushes then quit," but we did my mom's whole (large) backyard >>> on a single 4Ah battery. The tool that drains the battery fastest is my >>> 4&1/2" angle grinder/sander/wirebrusher, probably because it runs more >>> continuously and has an 'open circuit' load; I get about 20mins on a 4Ah >>> battery. >>> >>> I have a full complement of pneumatic and corded electric tools--many >>> are Harbor Freight, for occasional use--that are mostly collecting dust >>> these days; it's just not worth unraveling an extension cord or firing up >>> the compressor for a quick, one-off job . One of my faves is an old Makita >>> 9V driver/drill, which can't hold a candle for power to the DeWalt--and >>> replacement Chinese batteries are hit-or-miss--but it keeps soldiering-on. >>> Makita stuff is top-notch, but I haven't seen the variety of tools--doesn't >>> mean they don't have them--that DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc. have on display. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On 1/11/2021 5:38 AM, Tim . wrote: >>> >>> I didn't say I was going to spend 320. I said "if necessary". >>> >>> I already have a mitre saw. In fact, I have a full shop including >>> 80-gallon compressor, blast cabinet, parts washer, panel beating tools, and >>> a boat load of hand tools. >>> >>> I simply want the best cordless drill/screw driver out there. My >>> experience with ryobi is that they don't hold up to even how much I use >>> them. >>> >>> tim >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* John T. Blair >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:09 PM >>> *To:* Tim . >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver >>> >>> At 10:58 AM 1/10/2021, Tim wrote: >>> >>> >I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are >>> both >>> >burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit >>> in the >>> >bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to >>> at least >>> >match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right >>> now. >>> >>> ...... >>> >>> >I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not >>> contractor and this >>> >won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. >>> I'd like >>> >whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, >>> Sawzall, etc). >>> >>> Tim, >>> >>> If you are not going to be using it every day, why do you want to spend >>> a ton of >>> money on a cordless drill. You say you have $160 burning a hole in your >>> pocket >>> and are willing to put another $160 to that. Man that $320!!!! You can >>> get a >>> Roybi or such for say $100. Usually around Xmas which you just missed, >>> you can >>> get a Roybi kit with a drill, saw, and another tool for less than $150. >>> That's where >>> I'd put the first $160. Then I'd look at something else like a sliding >>> compound >>> miter saw, or a nail gun or two, or some other tools. >>> >>> Now that being said, let me say I buy a lot of Harbor Freight tools. >>> And for the >>> occassional use they work well. I have a $25 ish oscillating saw, which >>> I've used >>> for something over 5 yrs. It just died in the middle of a remodel in a >>> bedroom. >>> So I bought another. Especially if you don't know what you're going to >>> use it for. >>> I also have a cheap $20 H.F. recriprocating saw that has paid for it's >>> self. If I'd >>> have bought a $100 to $300 version of either of these tools, I'd never >>> had really >>> gotten my money worth out of the tool. I'm 72 and it's getting harder >>> and harder >>> every day for me to do a lot of the things I used to do, like bend over. >>> :) So why >>> should I pay for a tool that would last me for the next 30 years or so, >>> if I'm only >>> going to be around for another 10 years? >>> >>> Spend a little less money on a tool, and get more of them. Especially >>> if it not your >>> bread and butter. >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> 2 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 11:00:12 2021 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:00:12 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 11, 2021, at 07:49, Tim . wrote: > > ? > "Given the constraint of menards, I think the only real choice is makita as that is what they sell." > > ooooo....I wondered about that. Actually, my memory is failing. It?s Bosch cordless tools that hey sell. No later: they work fine. (So does their house brand stuff, too, but I would worry about them changing what that is, and being able to get new batteries etc). The dirty secret is all big brand cordless drill and drivers are excellent. The reason to pick one over another are color, availability, what your friends, family or cow orkers use, and the availablty of special tools. Oh, and what was on sale. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdinnis at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 12:01:17 2021 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:01:17 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There ARE some differences. Check out this guy's YouTube channel. Most of the differences are not enough to justify buying one brand over another, but there are some useful tid bits there. If nothing else it is VERY entertaining to watch this guy test stuff. https://www.youtube.com/c/ProjectFarm/videos On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 12:01 PM David Scheidt wrote: > > > On Jan 11, 2021, at 07:49, Tim . wrote: > > ? > "Given the constraint of menards, I think the only real choice is makita > as that is what they sell." > > ooooo....I wondered about that. > > > > Actually, my memory is failing. It?s Bosch cordless tools that hey sell. > No later: they work fine. (So does their house brand stuff, too, but I > would worry about them changing what that is, and being able to get new > batteries etc). > > The dirty secret is all big brand cordless drill and drivers are > excellent. The reason to pick one over another are color, availability, > what your friends, family or cow orkers use, and the availablty of special > tools. Oh, and what was on sale. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From watsonm05 at comcast.net Mon Jan 11 12:02:21 2021 From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 20:02:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Shop-talk] Any Model Steam Boat builders out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <925161201.54567.1610391742859@connect.xfinity.com> Eric, If you don't find anyone else you might look at Keith Rucker at VintageMachinery.org. He has a very active YouTube channel and works on some very interesting machines. Also, on his website is a huge repository of scans of old machinery stuff. He really likes steam equipment. He volunteers at the Georgia Museum of Technology and helps in repairing their 1917 Steam locomotive. Thanks, Mark > On 01/11/2021 5:50 PM eric at megageek.com wrote: > > > My elderly neighbor is getting rid of a bunch of books and such about model steam engines and wanted to try and find someone that would like them. > > Are you, or do you know of anyone that might be interested? If so, let me know. > > (shop content) this guys builds full size steam boats then a scale model of the same boat. Pretty impressive stuff. > > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/watsonm05 at comcast.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Mon Jan 11 12:30:44 2021 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:30:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fastening wet PT lumber? Message-ID: After delivering to them my first born child, the lumber company dropped off the PT framing and decking that I need to finish the deck I started in August. It is very wet and mostly frozen. Assuming it thaws while stored in the unheated garage, can I screw through the 2x4s I'm using to diagonally brace the posts and joists? As I understand it, there's not much dimentional change along the grain as it dries, so i shouldn't need to worry about the bracing pulling the post-joist assembly out of plumb/square. thanks, jim From neiljsherry at talktalk.net Mon Jan 11 12:31:01 2021 From: neiljsherry at talktalk.net (Neil Sherry) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 19:31:01 -0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210110225843.04adea18@cox.net> Message-ID: <024c01d6e850$4ba105c0$e2e31140$@talktalk.net> My only cordless tool is an ancient Bosch 7.2v drill/driver. Got it free with 'Tiger Tokens' (from buying Esso fuel) around 1990 - replaced the battery about 15 years ago with one off eBay (still NiCd, but bigger than original). Still a great tool, but maybe one day I will get something more powerful. Neil From: Shop-talk [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Spidell Sent: 11 January 2021 16:45 To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver Others have said it, but I'll reiterate: Pick a battery/voltage, then acquire the tools that go with it. If you get a cordless drill, eventually you'll want a cordless impact 'wrench'--for lug nuts if nothing else--a 'sawzall' (equivalent), a circular saw, etc. Buy a combo kit, with a battery and charger included, to start. I went with DeWalt 20V 'XR' brushless, because of mostly positive reviews and, whether it's merit or good product placement by the marketeers (probably both), they seem to be the most popular among the mechanics, farmers, etc. on the quasi-reality TV shows (Stihl gets the nod for gas chainsaws, with Husqvarna second). I bought a cordless DeWalt hedger, slightly discounted because it was a display model, thinking "Sure, it'll do a couple bushes then quit," but we did my mom's whole (large) backyard on a single 4Ah battery. The tool that drains the battery fastest is my 4&1/2" angle grinder/sander/wirebrusher, probably because it runs more continuously and has an 'open circuit' load; I get about 20mins on a 4Ah battery. I have a full complement of pneumatic and corded electric tools--many are Harbor Freight, for occasional use--that are mostly collecting dust these days; it's just not worth unraveling an extension cord or firing up the compressor for a quick, one-off job . One of my faves is an old Makita 9V driver/drill, which can't hold a candle for power to the DeWalt--and replacement Chinese batteries are hit-or-miss--but it keeps soldiering-on. Makita stuff is top-notch, but I haven't seen the variety of tools--doesn't mean they don't have them--that DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc. have on display. Bob On 1/11/2021 5:38 AM, Tim . wrote: I didn't say I was going to spend 320. I said "if necessary". I already have a mitre saw. In fact, I have a full shop including 80-gallon compressor, blast cabinet, parts washer, panel beating tools, and a boat load of hand tools. I simply want the best cordless drill/screw driver out there. My experience with ryobi is that they don't hold up to even how much I use them. tim _____ From: John T. Blair Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2021 10:09 PM To: Tim . Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver At 10:58 AM 1/10/2021, Tim wrote: >I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are both >burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can fit in the >bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am willing to at least >match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out there right now. ...... >I am not worried about a little heavier than most as I am not contractor and this >won't get used every day. I am just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like >whatever I get to be the start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). Tim, If you are not going to be using it every day, why do you want to spend a ton of money on a cordless drill. You say you have $160 burning a hole in your pocket and are willing to put another $160 to that. Man that $320!!!! You can get a Roybi or such for say $100. Usually around Xmas which you just missed, you can get a Roybi kit with a drill, saw, and another tool for less than $150. That's where I'd put the first $160. Then I'd look at something else like a sliding compound miter saw, or a nail gun or two, or some other tools. Now that being said, let me say I buy a lot of Harbor Freight tools. And for the occassional use they work well. I have a $25 ish oscillating saw, which I've used for something over 5 yrs. It just died in the middle of a remodel in a bedroom. So I bought another. Especially if you don't know what you're going to use it for. I also have a cheap $20 H.F. recriprocating saw that has paid for it's self. If I'd have bought a $100 to $300 version of either of these tools, I'd never had really gotten my money worth out of the tool. I'm 72 and it's getting harder and harder every day for me to do a lot of the things I used to do, like bend over. :) So why should I pay for a tool that would last me for the next 30 years or so, if I'm only going to be around for another 10 years? Spend a little less money on a tool, and get more of them. Especially if it not your bread and butter. John 2 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jem at milleredp.com Mon Jan 11 15:03:59 2021 From: jem at milleredp.com (jem at milleredp.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:03:59 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Any Model Steam Boat builders out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would happily TAKE them, pay shipping to my locale, store them properly and digest them personally however long it took. I knew several model steam types back in the day and while my tubs were powered by machinery that didn't belch water and various oils in the hull, I always appreciated they went through. That isn't to say I'm necessarily the best one to make use of the material therein but I'd certainly preserve them and try to make them available to those who could. As for full size steamers of that nature...the closest I've gotten to that was riding around Lake Windermere in a Victorian putt-putt launch with my wife and a bottle of decent champers on our fourth anniversary long ago. John. On 2021-01-11 08:50, eric at megageek.com wrote: > My elderly neighbor is getting rid of a bunch of books and such about model steam engines and wanted to try and find someone that would like them. > > Are you, or do you know of anyone that might be interested? If so, let me know. > > (shop content) this guys builds full size steam boats then a scale model of the same boat. Pretty impressive stuff. > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jem at milleredp.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fishplate at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 19:23:34 2021 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 21:23:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fastening wet PT lumber? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Assuming you can keep it inside for a while, can you sticker it and let it dry for a bit? I've screwed together some pretty wet wood and not noticed a problem. As it's bracing, there may not be anywhere it can go anyway. On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 2:32 PM Jim Franklin wrote: > > After delivering to them my first born child, the lumber company dropped off the PT framing and decking that I need to finish the deck I started in August. It is very wet and mostly frozen. > > Assuming it thaws while stored in the unheated garage, can I screw through the 2x4s I'm using to diagonally brace the posts and joists? As I understand it, there's not much dimentional change along the grain as it dries, so i shouldn't need to worry about the bracing pulling the post-joist assembly out of plumb/square. > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com > From eric at megageek.com Thu Jan 14 05:36:17 2021 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 07:36:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford OBD2 Scanner Message-ID: I have a few OBD2 scanners (one generic and one for Mercedes benz.) I wanted to get a Ford specific one, does anyone have any recommendations? I would consider as multi-brand one if the price isn't outrageous. Thanks. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 10:20:26 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:20:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug Message-ID: This is mostly theory. One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything about all cars--he's asking for help. He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc. The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall. So I guess my questions to the list are: 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be screwed. YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhlocker at comcast.net Thu Jan 14 10:35:09 2021 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:35:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3d32a332-625f-4eeb-7644-282f4455013a@comcast.net> I would look for a threaded plug into the coolant jacket in a shop manual. I remember planning to buy a block heater for my wife's Scion and the instructions actually had a drawing of where the plug was (in this case it was above the intake manifold in an "odd" location.) In any case, if they are talking about threading into a plug, it isn't going into a core plug hole, which are smooth. (No reason to thread it; that just costs money.) I read somewhere that the port is in the "rear right position" so passenger side of the engine, toward the firewall. (If I find more, I'll followup.) Donald. -- *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote: > This is mostly theory. > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > He brought in the instructions?and the heater itself. The instructions > are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just > says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in > heater, refill coolant, etc. > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to > tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to > drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no > threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug > presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze > plug to reinstall. > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the > whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug > presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is > correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other > than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then > be screwed. > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over > and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > Thanks. > From patintexas at icloud.com Thu Jan 14 10:36:59 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:36:59 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Call the Kia dealer. They should know. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Scott Hall wrote: ? This is mostly theory. One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything about all cars--he's asking for help. He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc. The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall. So I guess my questions to the list are: 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be screwed. YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? Thanks. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com From dhlocker at comcast.net Thu Jan 14 10:38:27 2021 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:38:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This link has an extensive list of heaters and locations: https://cdn.website.thryv.com/8c0139bc430e489cb98d24f13d5a80b2/files/uploaded/Kats%202017%5B1%5D.pdf HTH, Donald. -- On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote: > This is mostly theory. > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > about all cars--he's asking for help. > [snip] From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 10:41:12 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:41:12 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: <3d32a332-625f-4eeb-7644-282f4455013a@comcast.net> References: <3d32a332-625f-4eeb-7644-282f4455013a@comcast.net> Message-ID: That's exactly what the instructions say--right rear of the engine. So you're thinking "plug" doesn't mean a freeze or expansion plug but rather just a threaded port into the coolant jacket? That would make more sense to me. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:35 AM Donald H Locker wrote: > I would look for a threaded plug into the coolant jacket in a shop > manual. I remember planning to buy a block heater for my wife's Scion > and the instructions actually had a drawing of where the plug was (in > this case it was above the intake manifold in an "odd" location.) > > In any case, if they are talking about threading into a plug, it isn't > going into a core plug hole, which are smooth. (No reason to thread it; > that just costs money.) I read somewhere that the port is in the "rear > right position" so passenger side of the engine, toward the firewall. > (If I find more, I'll followup.) > > Donald. > -- > *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue > () no proprietary attachments; no html mail > /\ > > On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote: > > This is mostly theory. > > > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > > > He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions > > are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just > > says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in > > heater, refill coolant, etc. > > > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to > > tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to > > drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no > > threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug > > presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze > > plug to reinstall. > > > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the > > whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug > > presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is > > correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other > > than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then > > be screwed. > > > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over > > and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > > > Thanks. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 10:45:03 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:45:03 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup, that's the thing I'm looking at. I guess I need to look for a threaded port on the right rear of the engine, not a freeze plug. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:38 AM Donald H Locker wrote: > This link has an extensive list of heaters and locations: > > https://cdn.website.thryv.com/8c0139bc430e489cb98d24f13d5a80b2/files/uploaded/Kats%202017%5B1%5D.pdf > > HTH, > Donald. > -- > > On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote: > > This is mostly theory. > > > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > > > [snip] > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdinnis at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 10:46:26 2021 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:46:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are different styles of those heaters. Some intended to install in a freeze plug, some intended for go in a radiator hose, and some intended to go in place of a drain plug or port plug. It sounds like he has one that is meant to go in a drain plug? On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:22 AM Scott Hall wrote: > This is mostly theory. > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with > a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are > pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says > "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, > refill coolant, etc. > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to > tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to > drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no > threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses > in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to > reinstall. > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the > whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses > into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. > It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, > "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be > screwed. > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over > and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjcora at icloud.com Thu Jan 14 10:48:45 2021 From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:48:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scott - there may be a drain plug which is to be removed and replaced with the heater element. My Boxster has one and I think the V6 in my old Passat had two... Tom Coradeschi tjcora at icloud.com > On Jan 14, 2021, at 12:22 PM, Scott Hall wrote: > > ? > This is mostly theory. > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything about all cars--he's asking for help. > > He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc. > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall. > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be screwed. > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com > From pethier7 at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 10:51:15 2021 From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Phil Ethier) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:51:15 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> You need to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork. Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block? Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall wrote: > > ? > This is mostly theory. > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything about all cars--he's asking for help. > > He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc. > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall. > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be screwed. > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com > From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 10:52:47 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:52:47 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's definitely threaded and it's not the kind that goes into a radiator line or the ones that just fit dry into a port on the block--this thing is an element exposed to coolant. It's 24mm. I thought it might be taking over a drain plug until I saw it, but if that's a drain plug, it's bigger than any drain plug I've ever seen. I guess maybe there's just a threaded port in the side of the engine on spec that people want to install heaters as an option? I guess either way somebody's going to have to look and find it. At least I know I'm not looking for a freeze plug. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:46 AM John Innis wrote: > There are different styles of those heaters. Some intended to install in > a freeze plug, some intended for go in a radiator hose, and some intended > to go in place of a drain plug or port plug. It sounds like he has one > that is meant to go in a drain plug? > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:22 AM Scott Hall > wrote: > >> This is mostly theory. >> >> One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with >> a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). >> >> Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything >> about all cars--he's asking for help. >> >> He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions >> are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says >> "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, >> refill coolant, etc. >> >> The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. >> >> The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. >> >> Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to >> tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to >> drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no >> threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses >> in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to >> reinstall. >> >> So I guess my questions to the list are: >> >> 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the >> whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. >> >> 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses >> into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? >> >> We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. >> It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, >> "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be >> screwed. >> >> YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. >> >> Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over >> and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? >> >> Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com >> >> > > -- > ================================= > = Never offend people with style when you = > = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = > ================================= > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 10:55:11 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:55:11 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> References: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm looking at the thing now. It's this thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeJ7wPHaFZ0 I guess we'll have to see if there's a large threaded plug on the right rear of the engine. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:51 AM Phil Ethier wrote: > You need to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork. > > Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall > wrote: > > > > ? > > This is mostly theory. > > > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > > > He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions > are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says > "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, > refill coolant, etc. > > > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to > tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to > drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no > threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses > in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to > reinstall. > > > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the > whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug > presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is > correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other > than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be > screwed. > > > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over > and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhlocker at comcast.net Thu Jan 14 10:55:58 2021 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:55:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I must admit that it all looked good when I found their chart but the more I looked, the less it made sense. Sorry. Now I'm not sure it's really as useful as it seemed. But, I still think you'll be looking for a threaded plug to remove. If it's fitted into a core plug hole, that'll be a very different situation. Donald. -- On 2021-01-14 12:45 p.m., Scott Hall wrote: > Yup, that's the thing I'm looking at. > > I guess I need to look for a threaded port on the right rear of the > engine, not a freeze plug. > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:38 AM Donald H Locker > wrote: > > This link has an extensive list of heaters and locations: > https://cdn.website.thryv.com/8c0139bc430e489cb98d24f13d5a80b2/files/uploaded/Kats%202017%5B1%5D.pdf > > HTH, > Donald. > -- > > On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote: > > This is mostly theory. > > > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the > question). > > > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know > everything > > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > > > [snip] > From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 11:01:20 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:01:20 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> References: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> Message-ID: And I think the real purpose of a freeze plug is to leak and lead to impromptu coolant changes. I've never seen one pop out and save a block. Though I did have an engine freeze once and *not* crack the block--it just messed up everything else. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:51 AM Phil Ethier wrote: > You need to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork. > > Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall > wrote: > > > > ? > > This is mostly theory. > > > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > > > He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions > are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says > "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, > refill coolant, etc. > > > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to > tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to > drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no > threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses > in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to > reinstall. > > > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the > whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug > presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is > correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other > than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be > screwed. > > > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over > and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bottorff25 at verizon.net Thu Jan 14 11:05:07 2021 From: bottorff25 at verizon.net (Damon Bottorff) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:05:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: <3d32a332-625f-4eeb-7644-282f4455013a@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1962093468.2063269.1610647507617@mail.yahoo.com> Most engines have a threaded coolant drain plug in the block. I imagine these devices replace that plug. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Hall To: Donald H Locker Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, Jan 14, 2021 11:41 am Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug That's exactly what the instructions say--right rear of the engine. So you're thinking "plug" doesn't mean a freeze or expansion plug but rather just a threaded port into the coolant jacket? That would make more sense to me. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 11:35 AM Donald H Locker wrote: I would look for a threaded plug into the coolant jacket in a shop manual. I remember planning to buy a block heater for my wife's Scion and the instructions actually had a drawing of where the plug was (in this case it was above the intake manifold in an "odd" location.) In any case, if they are talking about threading into a plug, it isn't going into a core plug hole, which are smooth. (No reason to thread it; that just costs money.) I read somewhere that the port is in the "rear right position" so passenger side of the engine, toward the firewall. (If I find more, I'll followup.) Donald. -- *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ On 2021-01-14 12:20 p.m., Scott Hall wrote: > This is mostly theory. > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > He brought in the instructions?and the heater itself. The instructions > are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just > says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in > heater, refill coolant, etc. > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to > tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to > drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no > threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug > presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze > plug to reinstall. > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the > whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug > presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is > correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other > than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then > be screwed. > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over > and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation? $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bottorff25 at verizon.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdinnis at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 11:24:18 2021 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 12:24:18 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> References: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> Message-ID: We had a freeze plug do it's job. This was on a 4-cyl MerCruiser I/O block, 1980's vintage, which I THINK was just a reworked GM Iron Duke motor. Boat was out of the water for the season, but we got a sudden freeze before we could flush the jacket. One freeze plug came all the way out, another came part way out. No cracks in the block. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 12:07 PM Phil Ethier wrote: > You need to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork. > > Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall > wrote: > > > > ? > > This is mostly theory. > > > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia > with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > > > He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions > are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says > "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, > refill coolant, etc. > > > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to > tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to > drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no > threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses > in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to > reinstall. > > > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the > whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug > presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is > correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other > than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be > screwed. > > > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over > and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 12:09:59 2021 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 13:09:59 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> References: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> Message-ID: <523BB3F9-47AE-4B5A-8F68-6989E7173F3D@gmail.com> > On Jan 14, 2021, at 12:07, Phil Ethier wrote: > > ?You need to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork. > > Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block? > The purpose of the freeze plug is to get the core out of the casting, and create the water jacket. They are not intended to prevent damage from freezing , at least on any modern engine. > From tjcora at icloud.com Thu Jan 14 16:04:48 2021 From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:04:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> References: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> Message-ID: <22F84261-725A-4688-B0D0-819303EEF1DD@icloud.com> Yes. 68 Plymouth w/ a 383 circa 1978 or so. Pain in the ass to replace them all. Tom Coradeschi tjcora at icloud.com > On Jan 14, 2021, at 1:33 PM, Phil Ethier wrote: > > ?You need to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork. > > Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall wrote: >> >> ? >> This is mostly theory. >> >> One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). >> >> Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything about all cars--he's asking for help. >> >> He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc. >> >> The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. >> >> The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. >> >> Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall. >> >> So I guess my questions to the list are: >> >> 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. >> >> 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? >> >> We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be screwed. >> >> YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. >> >> Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? >> >> Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com > From nogera at icloud.com Fri Jan 15 07:48:10 2021 From: nogera at icloud.com (Robert Nogueirao) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 08:48:10 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> References: <8A9A15C1-3980-47A8-B52E-19394B79AE71@gmail.com> Message-ID: ?Freeze Plugs? are not intended to save an engine if frozen. They are a result of needing to get the casting sand out of the block after the casting process. They could be a treaded fitting or even brazed in place but the steel plug is cheap, quick to install and MAY pop out if the block is ever frozen. Bob Nogueira > On Jan 14, 2021, at 12:41 PM, Phil Ethier wrote: > > ?You need to see the part of itself and not just the paperwork. > > Has anyone ever actually seen a freeze plug save an engine block? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Scott Hall wrote: >> >> ? >> This is mostly theory. >> >> One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with a 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). >> >> Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything about all cars--he's asking for help. >> >> He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, refill coolant, etc. >> >> The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. >> >> The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. >> >> Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to tell him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads behind it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall. >> >> So I guess my questions to the list are: >> >> 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. >> >> 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? >> >> We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be screwed. >> >> YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. >> >> Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over and roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? >> >> Thanks. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nogera at icloud.com > From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Fri Jan 15 11:21:42 2021 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:21:42 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49f57517-08ec-6ab0-4cb2-dbcc94d1c8e7@threeboysfarm.com> I looked up kia block heater and found that they also sell press in (not screw in) block heaters such as: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/KAT11401?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google& or https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/find/kia-engine-heaters.c5806 So I'd recommend either a different place for that heater or a different heater into the freeze plug.? And: if you get involved with this and it fails in any way (pops out if the press in one, leaks for a thread in) then it instantly becomes your problem. I'd recommend directing him towards his Kia dealer/service shop if he can't take care of it himself . Regards, Mark Miller 707-490-5834 markmiller at threeboysfarm.com > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2021 11:20:26 -0600 > From: Scott Hall > To: "shop-talk at autox.team.net" > Subject: [Shop-talk] Frost heater/freeze plug > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > This is mostly theory. > > One of my staff wants to stick a frost heater in his car--it's a Kia with a > 3.3L engine (though I don't think that matters for the question). > > Since he thinks I'm a car guy--which in his head means I know everything > about all cars--he's asking for help. > > He brought in the instructions and the heater itself. The instructions are > pretty simple: drain coolant, "remove plug" (quotes mine--it just says > "plug", so I'm assuming that's a freeze/expansion plug), screw in heater, > refill coolant, etc. > > The heater to install is threaded. It says to torque it to 30 lb. ft. > > The plug he's removing probably isn't...I'd think. > > Obviously without rolling under the car, who knows? But I'm tempted to tell > him to not start--the only way I know to remove a freeze plug is to drill a > hole in it, then pull it out with something. If there are no threads behind > it--and I can't imagine that a press-in freeze plug presses in to a > threaded hole--then he's just going to need a new freeze plug to reinstall. > > So I guess my questions to the list are: > > 1) anyone ever see a threaded freeze plug? That would seem to defeat the > whole purpose of allowing it to pop out. > > 2) anyone ever see threads behind a freeze plug? Perhaps the plug presses > into a smooth port, and there are threads behind it? > > We called the manufacturer who confirmed that the part number is correct. > It's used on several models so they couldn't say for sure other than, > "it'll work". I'd hate to see this kid pull out a freeze plug then be > screwed. > > YouTube similarly has nothing relevant. > > Anybody have any experience with this before I just have him drive over and > roll under the car to see what I'm looking at? > > Thanks. > From marka at maracing.com Sat Jan 16 08:20:30 2021 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 10:20:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, I bit the bullet a year or two ago, coming from old Milwaukee 18v Nicad stuff. In addition to batteries dying, the thing that convinced me was just how good the 12v Bosch screwdriver I bought was when I wanted something super small for electrical work. Turned out that the modern 12v lithium stuff has as much power as the old 18+ nicad stuff, weighs half as much, and is smaller in all good ways. A couple years later... I have both 12v and 18v Milwaukee. To me, the only downside of Milwaukee is price. In every other way they're better or at absolute worst equal to the other brands. Performance, tool selection, ergos, etc. My recommendation for a drill/driver would absolutely be one of the 12v Fuel brushless Milwaukees. After that, my recommendation would be any 12v brushless brand that has reasonable reviews and you like the feel of it when you pick it up. Battery stuff these days is amazing. I basically never use corded or air powered handtools any more. Mark On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 11:36 AM Paul Parkanzky wrote: > I use Bosch cordless tools and I am very happy with them, but my friend > has Milwaukee and they have the best selection of tools right now. They > have a cordless impact gun that makes 1400 ft.-lbs of torque!!! I have two > full sets and a bunch of batteries for the Bosch stuff but one of these > days I'm going to have to bite the bullet and make the switch to red. > > Regards, > > -Paul > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:59 AM Tim . > wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> I know this has been discussed ad nauseam but I didn't save any of those >> emails..... >> >> I have a $100 menards rebate check and a $60 rebate visa card that are >> both burning a hole in my pocket. Also, I have the 15% "anything you can >> fit in the bag" sale bag. I figure $160 is a good starting point and am >> willing to at least match that 160 or more if necessary to get the best out >> there right now. >> >> So, what is the best right now? I am not worried about a little heavier >> than most as I am not contractor and this won't get used every day. I am >> just getting tired of dragging cords. I'd like whatever I get to be the >> start of going all cordless (skill saw, Sawzall, etc). >> >> Thanks all >> tim >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marka at maracing.com Sat Jan 16 08:25:30 2021 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 10:25:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com In-Reply-To: <2D436619-32CD-41AB-9E64-2275D9FBBD74@gmail.com> References: <2D436619-32CD-41AB-9E64-2275D9FBBD74@gmail.com> Message-ID: Howdy, Ditto. Happy customer with cpo outlets (usually I'm hitting it via cpomilwaukee.com). Don't discount Home Depot for Milwaukee stuff. Their prices are almost always right in line, including specials. And chances are there's a store close to you. Mark On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 3:53 PM David Scheidt wrote: > > > On Jan 10, 2021, at 11:10, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > ?So, I never heard of this site before, so I wanted to check them out. > > Their site is really slow and most egregiously of them is there "price in > cart" method of pricing. > > > Lots of tool companies have minimum advertised prices. Can?t advertise a > lower price, but you can sell for less. > > The site has always has worked fine for me, too. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Sat Jan 16 08:41:04 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:41:04 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com In-Reply-To: References: <2D436619-32CD-41AB-9E64-2275D9FBBD74@gmail.com>, Message-ID: Thanks again all. Having used my neighbor's 20v Dewalt last year when we replaced a couple rear stair well supports, I went with that set up. As for homedepot, I won't shop there anymore. Last time I was in there, I only needed a new filter for my wet/dry, I wanted to get in and get out. Welllll, they had changed ALL their regular checkouts to self-serve. There were only two manned checkouts, the ones meant for the pros. The lines for thlose two were both well over 10 people. I refuse to use the self-serve (unless I get an employee discount!!); they need to hire people to do the work. I put down the filter by the exit and haven't been back. I even cut up my homedepot credit card. rant off ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Mark Andy Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2021 9:25 AM To: David Scheidt Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com Howdy, Ditto. Happy customer with cpo outlets (usually I'm hitting it via cpomilwaukee.com). Don't discount Home Depot for Milwaukee stuff. Their prices are almost always right in line, including specials. And chances are there's a store close to you. Mark On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 3:53 PM David Scheidt > wrote: On Jan 10, 2021, at 11:10, eric at megageek.com wrote: ?So, I never heard of this site before, so I wanted to check them out. Their site is really slow and most egregiously of them is there "price in cart" method of pricing. Lots of tool companies have minimum advertised prices. Can?t advertise a lower price, but you can sell for less. The site has always has worked fine for me, too. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Sat Jan 16 08:59:28 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:59:28 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Extra post.... Message-ID: Embarrassing question here (again): I am replacing all the outlets (with GFI) and the light switch in the kitchen. What is the extra post on the right? (not the green one) What I am replacing only has three: both wires and the ground. thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: switch.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 70522 bytes Desc: switch.jpg URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sat Jan 16 09:05:29 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 10:05:29 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Extra post.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I assume this is the switch. If so, you purchased a 3 way switch. Not a problem, just use the colored (not green) screw & one of the other screws. If the switch works backwards, move the wire to the other screw. You can?t cause a short no matter how you hook it up. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 16, 2021, at 10:01 AM, Tim . wrote: ? Embarrassing question here (again): I am replacing all the outlets (with GFI) and the light switch in the kitchen. What is the extra post on the right? (not the green one) What I am replacing only has three: both wires and the ground. thanks _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Jan 16 09:05:50 2021 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 11:05:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Extra post.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B32122B-2C69-45C5-A3A1-519A3494C8BB@groupwbench.org> That's a 3 way switch, for controlling a light form two places, like either end of a hallway. It needs another 3 way swicth, plus 14/3 wire between them, to work. If you're replacing a regular, one location swicth myou need to return this and get the correct one with 2 posts. jim > On Jan 16, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Tim . wrote: > > Embarrassing question here (again): > > I am replacing all the outlets (with GFI) and the light switch in the kitchen. > > What is the extra post on the right? (not the green one) What I am replacing only has three: both wires and the ground. > > thanks > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fishplate at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 10:15:27 2021 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 12:15:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Extra post.... In-Reply-To: <4B32122B-2C69-45C5-A3A1-519A3494C8BB@groupwbench.org> References: <4B32122B-2C69-45C5-A3A1-519A3494C8BB@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: "...plus 14/3 wire between them..." In general, this may be true. But I have three-way light switches in my house that are on 20A breakers,and thus would require 12 ga. wire. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Sat, Jan 16, 2021 at 11:13 AM Jim Franklin wrote: > > That's a 3 way switch, for controlling a light form two places, like either end of a hallway. It needs another 3 way swicth, plus 14/3 wire between them, to work. If you're replacing a regular, one location swicth myou need to return this and get the correct one with 2 posts. > > jim > > On Jan 16, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Tim . wrote: > > Embarrassing question here (again): > > I am replacing all the outlets (with GFI) and the light switch in the kitchen. > > What is the extra post on the right? (not the green one) What I am replacing only has three: both wires and the ground. > > thanks > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com > From arvidj999 at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 10:55:46 2021 From: arvidj999 at gmail.com (Arvid) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 11:55:46 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless drill/screw driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66e7909c-f33c-aa8e-5f40-54cd4e63ab71@gmail.com> I will add my vote for Milwaukee. I have 3 M12 FUEL and 1 M18 FUEL drills. FUEL is the Milwaukee name for brush-less. 95% of the time an M12 with the 2ah battery gets it done. The other 5% of the time is handled by the M12 right angle drill (obvious 'nothing else fits there' situations) or something like 'need several 7/8 inch holes in the tractor bucket'. In the latter case I make sure I have the torque handle attached as the drill will get away from me pretty easily. The only shortcoming that I have found in the Milwaukee lineup is that it seems to be focused on construction related tools. Fine woodworking seems to be a little lower on their priority list. Their M18 palm sander gets lots of bad review and they do not have an M18 track saw package. Having said that I do have their M18 router which I am happy with and their M18 7 1/4 circular saw. Sadly the dust collection on the saw is horrible. Definitely designed ... or more likely just ignored ... for the construction setting where sawdust all over is probably not an issue. Many 'less than 5 start' reviews based on that issue. Arvid From neiljsherry at talktalk.net Sat Jan 16 11:50:31 2021 From: neiljsherry at talktalk.net (neiljsherry at talktalk.net) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 18:50:31 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Extra post.... In-Reply-To: <4B32122B-2C69-45C5-A3A1-519A3494C8BB@groupwbench.org> References: <4B32122B-2C69-45C5-A3A1-519A3494C8BB@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <7B88EAC2-5798-47EB-A672-2797486758C9@talktalk.net> You should be able to just ignore the extra terminal - most light switches in the UK have the three terminals and we just use the two for a conventional single switch setup. Neil On 16 January 2021 16:05:50 GMT, Jim Franklin wrote: >That's a 3 way switch, for controlling a light form two places, like >either end of a hallway. It needs another 3 way swicth, plus 14/3 wire >between them, to work. If you're replacing a regular, one location >swicth myou need to return this and get the correct one with 2 posts. > >jim > >> On Jan 16, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Tim . >wrote: >> >> Embarrassing question here (again): >> >> I am replacing all the outlets (with GFI) and the light switch in the >kitchen. >> >> What is the extra post on the right? (not the green one) What I am >replacing only has three: both wires and the ground. >> >> thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org > -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Jan 16 12:13:29 2021 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 14:13:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Extra post.... In-Reply-To: <7B88EAC2-5798-47EB-A672-2797486758C9@talktalk.net> References: <4B32122B-2C69-45C5-A3A1-519A3494C8BB@groupwbench.org> <7B88EAC2-5798-47EB-A672-2797486758C9@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <09C0D027-BC41-46B3-9E6F-CE339030B486@groupwbench.org> My OCD blocked me from even thinking this could be an option :-) Be sure to screw the unused terminal all the way in to minimize contact with metal. jim > On Jan 16, 2021, at 1:50 PM, neiljsherry at talktalk.net wrote: > > You should be able to just ignore the extra terminal - most light switches in the UK have the three terminals and we just use the two for a conventional single switch setup. > Neil > > On 16 January 2021 16:05:50 GMT, Jim Franklin wrote: > That's a 3 way switch, for controlling a light form two places, like either end of a hallway. It needs another 3 way swicth, plus 14/3 wire between them, to work. If you're replacing a regular, one location swicth myou need to return this and get the correct one with 2 posts. > > jim > >> On Jan 16, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Tim . > wrote: >> >> Embarrassing question here (again): >> >> I am replacing all the outlets (with GFI) and the light switch in the kitchen. >> >> What is the extra post on the right? (not the green one) What I am replacing only has three: both wires and the ground. >> >> thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Jan 16 14:41:50 2021 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:41:50 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Extra post.... In-Reply-To: <09C0D027-BC41-46B3-9E6F-CE339030B486@groupwbench.org> References: <09C0D027-BC41-46B3-9E6F-CE339030B486@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <30D3C1CE-6BB8-4549-B238-3802FAE5BF89@gmail.com> > On Jan 16, 2021, at 13:14, Jim Franklin wrote: > > ?My OCD blocked me from even thinking this could be an option :-) > > Be sure to screw the unused terminal all the way in to minimize contact with metal. For some types of switch, the only real option is a three way switch. (Good quality led dimmers,for example). I expect even ordinary three way snap switches are listed for use as a single switch. I tape devices, to prevent errant contact with screws. From rwil at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 16 15:57:00 2021 From: rwil at sbcglobal.net (rwil at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 14:57:00 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com In-Reply-To: References: <2D436619-32CD-41AB-9E64-2275D9FBBD74@gmail.com>, Message-ID: I have never seen a Home Depot checkout like the one that you found, and I have been to quite a few around So. Calif. I use smaller local chains and stores whenever possible but I don't avoid HD when needed. -Roland On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:41:04 +0000, you wrote: >Thanks again all. > >Having used my neighbor's 20v Dewalt last year when we replaced a couple rear stair well supports, I went with that set up. > >As for homedepot, I won't shop there anymore. Last time I was in there, I only needed a new filter for my wet/dry, I wanted to get in and get out. Welllll, they had changed ALL their regular checkouts to self-serve. There were only two manned checkouts, the ones meant for the pros. The lines for thlose two were both well over 10 people. I refuse to use the self-serve (unless I get an employee discount!!); they need to hire people to do the work. I put down the filter by the exit and haven't been back. I even cut up my homedepot credit card. rant off > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From dhlocker at comcast.net Sat Jan 16 16:13:03 2021 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 18:13:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com In-Reply-To: References: <2D436619-32CD-41AB-9E64-2275D9FBBD74@gmail.com> Message-ID: <62a211ca-dd0d-17d4-ba2c-70847909057b@comcast.net> I prefer Lowe's for more than one reason: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/20/lowes-funds-25-million-in-grants-to-help-minority-businesses-reopen.html My experiences with Home Depot have been generally positive, but Lowes is closer, has what I need, and is organised well (or maybe I'm just accustomed to their organisation; whatever.) Donald. -- *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ On 2021-01-16 5:57 p.m., rwil at sbcglobal.net wrote: > I have never seen a Home Depot checkout like the one that you found, > and I have been to quite a few around So. Calif. I use smaller local > chains and stores whenever possible but I don't avoid HD when needed. > > -Roland > > On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:41:04 +0000, you wrote: > >> Thanks again all. >> >> Having used my neighbor's 20v Dewalt last year when we replaced a couple rear stair well supports, I went with that set up. >> >> As for homedepot, I won't shop there anymore. Last time I was in there, I only needed a new filter for my wet/dry, I wanted to get in and get out. Welllll, they had changed ALL their regular checkouts to self-serve. There were only two manned checkouts, the ones meant for the pros. The lines for thlose two were both well over 10 people. I refuse to use the self-serve (unless I get an employee discount!!); they need to hire people to do the work. I put down the filter by the exit and haven't been back. I even cut up my homedepot credit card. rant off >> > From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Sat Jan 16 16:34:45 2021 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 23:34:45 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com In-Reply-To: <62a211ca-dd0d-17d4-ba2c-70847909057b@comcast.net> References: <2D436619-32CD-41AB-9E64-2275D9FBBD74@gmail.com> , <62a211ca-dd0d-17d4-ba2c-70847909057b@comcast.net> Message-ID: unfortunately, no lowes within (over) an hour of me. I'd prefer going there. ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Donald H Locker Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2021 5:13 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] cpooutlets.com I prefer Lowe's for more than one reason: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/20/lowes-funds-25-million-in-grants-to-help-minority-businesses-reopen.html My experiences with Home Depot have been generally positive, but Lowes is closer, has what I need, and is organised well (or maybe I'm just accustomed to their organisation; whatever.) Donald. -- *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ On 2021-01-16 5:57 p.m., rwil at sbcglobal.net wrote: > I have never seen a Home Depot checkout like the one that you found, > and I have been to quite a few around So. Calif. I use smaller local > chains and stores whenever possible but I don't avoid HD when needed. > > -Roland > > On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:41:04 +0000, you wrote: > >> Thanks again all. >> >> Having used my neighbor's 20v Dewalt last year when we replaced a couple rear stair well supports, I went with that set up. >> >> As for homedepot, I won't shop there anymore. Last time I was in there, I only needed a new filter for my wet/dry, I wanted to get in and get out. Welllll, they had changed ALL their regular checkouts to self-serve. There were only two manned checkouts, the ones meant for the pros. The lines for thlose two were both well over 10 people. I refuse to use the self-serve (unless I get an employee discount!!); they need to hire people to do the work. I put down the filter by the exit and haven't been back. I even cut up my homedepot credit card. rant off >> > _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Sat Jan 16 22:07:22 2021 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 21:07:22 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] extra post In-Reply-To: <752d2057-2210-e500-ab0f-d48bd683a981@threeboysfarm.com> References: <752d2057-2210-e500-ab0f-d48bd683a981@threeboysfarm.com> Message-ID: It's a 3 way switch.? Use the 'common' terminal and either of the other two and you are fine.? The only thing you will give up is a dollar and the molded in ON and OFF labels.? Well worth it to not have to go get another switch. Regards, Mark Miller 707-490-5834 markmiller at threeboysfarm.com > Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:59:28 +0000 >> From: "Tim ." >> To: "Shop? Talk" >> Subject: [Shop-talk] Extra post.... >> Message-ID: >> ???? >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Embarrassing question here (again): >> >> I am replacing all the outlets (with GFI) and the light switch in the >> kitchen. >> >> What is the extra post on the right? (not the green one) What I am >> replacing only has three: both wires and the ground. >> >> From jamesf at groupwbench.org Mon Jan 18 10:42:59 2021 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:42:59 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Pervious landing for deck stringers? Message-ID: I initally was going to land my deck stringers on stone dust over paver base, but the stone dust on the walkway isn't compacting; it remains loose when I walk on it. I'm thinking the constant boucing of the stringers would slowly bore holes into the stone dust and change the level of the stairs. Am I overthinking it? It's an 8' wide staircase with 7 stringers, so the PSI is very low, as is the frequency of more than one person at a time using the stairs. Traditionally I've seen either pavers or poured slab. Ideally I'd like something that drained, so that the stringers don't stay in contact with water, either by wicking it up or by surface tension. I did put preservative on them. Is there anything out there besides just buying pervious pavers? I'm envisioning something like a recycled plastic grid? thanks, jim From tjcora at icloud.com Mon Jan 18 12:39:37 2021 From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 14:39:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Pervious landing for deck stringers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BF11D14-1CCA-4E2C-9035-691D4870A291@icloud.com> Jim: I would not have the stringers land on anything that is not solid, regardless of what?s underneath. I?d suggest (depending on what the stringers are made from) a pressure treated 2x10 or 2x12 at a minimum. Tom Coradeschi tjcora at icloud.com > On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > > ?I initally was going to land my deck stringers on stone dust over paver base, but the stone dust on the walkway isn't compacting; it remains loose when I walk on it. I'm thinking the constant boucing of the stringers would slowly bore holes into the stone dust and change the level of the stairs. Am I overthinking it? It's an 8' wide staircase with 7 stringers, so the PSI is very low, as is the frequency of more than one person at a time using the stairs. > > Traditionally I've seen either pavers or poured slab. Ideally I'd like something that drained, so that the stringers don't stay in contact with water, either by wicking it up or by surface tension. I did put preservative on them. > > Is there anything out there besides just buying pervious pavers? I'm envisioning something like a recycled plastic grid? > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com > From fishplate at gmail.com Mon Jan 18 19:20:37 2021 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 21:20:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Pervious landing for deck stringers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you're really concerned, have them land on pavers that aren't quite level. Easy enough to cut the bottom of the stringer so that they will set tight, if you think that's a problem. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:47 PM Jim Franklin wrote: > > I initally was going to land my deck stringers on stone dust over paver base, but the stone dust on the walkway isn't compacting; it remains loose when I walk on it. I'm thinking the constant boucing of the stringers would slowly bore holes into the stone dust and change the level of the stairs. Am I overthinking it? It's an 8' wide staircase with 7 stringers, so the PSI is very low, as is the frequency of more than one person at a time using the stairs. > > Traditionally I've seen either pavers or poured slab. Ideally I'd like something that drained, so that the stringers don't stay in contact with water, either by wicking it up or by surface tension. I did put preservative on them. > > Is there anything out there besides just buying pervious pavers? I'm envisioning something like a recycled plastic grid? > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com > From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 11:07:25 2021 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 12:07:25 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air impact dead? Message-ID: IR2131 - 1/2" impact. It's maybe 20 years old. Been used maybe half a dozen times in twenty years (it has a brother that gets used usually) and has lived a coddled life in a padded tool drawer. Not even really dusty. Tried it the other day and it acts like there's no air in the compressor. Turns really slow with no power at all. Not even a first good smack. I'm trying to use it with a portable roofing compressor (the two long tanks, maybe three gallon capacity), but it puts out 100+ p.s.i. and it filled up. Should I try to take it (the wrench) apart and see if something's in the passages? Do they just wear out over time, even if not used? Might the compressor be too small? My only thought is maybe a wasp got into it and made a nest somewhere in there. I don't *see* anything, but... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 11:43:29 2021 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 10:43:29 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air impact dead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have seen this with seldom used air impact wrenches. The air paddles in the motor get stuck in their slots and will not seal. You will hear the air escaping from the wrench, but with little movement or power. You could try to squirt some air tool oil in it, spin it just a little to spread it around the paddles, let it set for a few hours and try it again to see if it free the paddles before you open it up. best, doug On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 10:08 AM Scott Hall wrote: > IR2131 - 1/2" impact. > > It's maybe 20 years old. Been used maybe half a dozen times in twenty > years (it has a brother that gets used usually) and has lived a coddled > life in a padded tool drawer. Not even really dusty. > > Tried it the other day and it acts like there's no air in the compressor. > Turns really slow with no power at all. Not even a first good smack. > > I'm trying to use it with a portable roofing compressor (the two long > tanks, maybe three gallon capacity), but it puts out 100+ p.s.i. and it > filled up. > > Should I try to take it (the wrench) apart and see if something's in the > passages? Do they just wear out over time, even if not used? Might the > compressor be too small? My only thought is maybe a wasp got into it and > made a nest somewhere in there. I don't *see* anything, but... > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 22 13:33:59 2021 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 15:33:59 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bandsaw cutting fuild Message-ID: Hello everyone. I just bought a 9X12 metal cutting bandsaw and it has a coolant pump and system. I never had a tool with a coolant system, what is the preferred coolant to run in it, and where do you get it? Thanks. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdinnis at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 13:41:00 2021 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 14:41:00 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bandsaw cutting fuild In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I bought this concentrate on amazon, and it seems to work pretty good. I am mostly cutting Aluminum bar stock on my horizontal band saw, and this does the job for me. Mix it 10:1 with water and it should do whatever you need it to. You can go thinner but if you do it tends to evaporate more quickly in the sump. As this is a water-based cutting fluid, do NOT use it on Magnesium. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00R9LXVKY/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_dDZcGbDPKYNDH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 2:35 PM wrote: > Hello everyone. I just bought a 9X12 metal cutting bandsaw and it has a > coolant pump and system. > > I never had a tool with a coolant system, what is the preferred coolant to > run in it, and where do you get it? > > Thanks. > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Fri Jan 22 13:49:42 2021 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 14:49:42 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bandsaw cutting fuild In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can?t answer your question but just a heads up. Several friends purchased new horizontal bandsaws & opened up the gear box to check things out before using them. All of them found a fair amount of metal trash inside. You might want to check yours out. Granted, these were all low end saws, but it can?t hurt. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity On Jan 22, 2021, at 2:35 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: ?Hello everyone. I just bought a 9X12 metal cutting bandsaw and it has a coolant pump and system. I never had a tool with a coolant system, what is the preferred coolant to run in it, and where do you get it? Thanks. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peterwmurray at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 18:49:24 2021 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:49:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] drawer glides Message-ID: Kind Lads and Lassies- I received a 6-drawer danish dresser (3 drawers down, 2 across) from my sister, and while it is in good condition, her kids were pretty hard on the drawer glides, and they're in need of replacement. Unfortunately, the glides have no manufacturer markings of any sort. The vendor of the dresser (30 years ago) doesn't know where to acquire replacement glides, so I ask of this Big Brain Trust - where would one find replacements? These are side-mount glides which mount in a groove in the side of the drawer. Ideally, I'd find an exact replacement to these two-piece (plus ball-bearings and plastic clip to keep the bearings in place). The 420mm outer piece mounts in the drawer, the smaller, 343mm inner glide is mounted on the dresser. The height of the glide has been the big challenge, as they're about 27mm, though I'm going to get more precise with my measuring to be sure). I've seen what Rockler, Rufkahrs, The Hardware Hut, Cabinet Parts and others have on offer, but I'm wondering if I'm looking in the wrong place, or if I'm overthinking this. Underthinking is also a distinct possibility. I supplicate myself to your superior intellect. -Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ejrussell61 at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 19:51:03 2021 From: ejrussell61 at gmail.com (Eric Russell) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:51:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] drawer glides In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm guessing that the drawer half of the guide fits into a dado the length of the drawer box? This is not a commonly available fitment. If the drawer box is 1" narrower than the opening in the dresser then it would be easy to adapt any of the commonly available drawer guides. In that case you might need to make a filler piece to fill in the dado. A photo of the drawer guides would help. Eric Russell Mebane, NC On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 8:51 PM Peter Murray wrote: > Kind Lads and Lassies- > > I received a 6-drawer danish dresser (3 drawers down, 2 across) from my > sister, and while it is in good condition, her kids were pretty hard on the > drawer glides, and they're in need of replacement. Unfortunately, the > glides have no manufacturer markings of any sort. > > The vendor of the dresser (30 years ago) doesn't know where to acquire > replacement glides, so I ask of this Big Brain Trust - where would one find > replacements? > > These are side-mount glides which mount in a groove in the side of the > drawer. Ideally, I'd find an exact replacement to these two-piece (plus > ball-bearings and plastic clip to keep the bearings in place). The 420mm > outer piece mounts in the drawer, the smaller, 343mm inner glide is mounted > on the dresser. The height of the glide has been the big challenge, as > they're about 27mm, though I'm going to get more precise with my measuring > to be sure). > > I've seen what Rockler, Rufkahrs, The Hardware Hut, Cabinet Parts and > others have on offer, but I'm wondering if I'm looking in the wrong place, > or if I'm overthinking this. Underthinking is also a distinct possibility. > > I supplicate myself to your superior intellect. > > -Peter > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ejrussell61 at gmail.com > > -- Eric Russell Mebane, NC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Sat Jan 30 18:17:21 2021 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:17:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> About 13 years ago, I got a Norco Air/hydraulic floor jack. I have been very happy with it when it works, but there have been some problems. Contemplating a replacement, I am not really seeing anything like this available now. Have you guys found anything similar? It is a pretty traditional hydraulic floor jack, except it also has a compressed air connection. This operates a pump that moves the hydraulic fluid instead of pumping the handle. The Norco is 2.25 Ton, which is plenty for me. I need to lift everything from my Miata to a large SUV. Besides saving my back, I sometimes find the jack in a position where I can't raise the jack handle enough before it hits the bumper or other part of the car. Is there anything clever available these days? If you have a fancy lift, I am jealous, but I don't have the room or ceiling height for one. Thanks. -Steve T. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From strovato at optonline.net Sat Jan 30 18:17:21 2021 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:17:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> About 13 years ago, I got a Norco Air/hydraulic floor jack. I have been very happy with it when it works, but there have been some problems. Contemplating a replacement, I am not really seeing anything like this available now. Have you guys found anything similar? It is a pretty traditional hydraulic floor jack, except it also has a compressed air connection. This operates a pump that moves the hydraulic fluid instead of pumping the handle. The Norco is 2.25 Ton, which is plenty for me. I need to lift everything from my Miata to a large SUV. Besides saving my back, I sometimes find the jack in a position where I can't raise the jack handle enough before it hits the bumper or other part of the car. Is there anything clever available these days? If you have a fancy lift, I am jealous, but I don't have the room or ceiling height for one. Thanks. -Steve T. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Jan 30 19:24:01 2021 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 21:24:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> This got me thinking, that with the current battery and motor tech, there should be electric assist ones. Pneumatics seem to be fading away. I did find a bunch of crap, mostly for roadside emergencies that wouldn't fit under sports cars. Sadly nothing approaching the version in my head. But you asked for clever: https://www.quickjack.com/ jim > On Jan 30, 2021, at 8:17 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > > About 13 years ago, I got a Norco Air/hydraulic floor jack. I have been very happy with it when it works, but there have been some problems. Contemplating a replacement, I am not really seeing anything like this available now. Have you guys found anything similar? It is a pretty traditional hydraulic floor jack, except it also has a compressed air connection. This operates a pump that moves the hydraulic fluid instead of pumping the handle. The Norco is 2.25 Ton, which is plenty for me. I need to lift everything from my Miata to a large SUV. Besides saving my back, I sometimes find the jack in a position where I can't raise the jack handle enough before it hits the bumper or other part of the car. Is there anything clever available these days? If you have a fancy lift, I am jealous, but I don't have the room or ceiling height for one. Thanks. > > -Steve T. > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Sat Jan 30 20:14:38 2021 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 22:14:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> References: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: Jim, Yes, I was thinking the same thing. There should be some sort of electric alternative, perhaps using one of the common battery packs like Milwaukee. But as you found, apparently no such thing exists yet. As for the Quickjack, those are definitely clever. One concern is the way they describe the sizing based on the kind of car. I wonder if there is a model that can handle both a small car like a Miata and a large SUV. I am not buying a selection of these things! Also, I can currently lift a project car for long term work and then jack up another car for an oil change or brake job. I guess I would still need a jack and stands for that scenario. They do look nice, though, and they would probably be very useful for most situations. -Steve T. At 09:24 PM 1/30/2021, Jim Franklin wrote: >This got me thinking, that with the current battery and motor tech, >there should be electric assist ones. Pneumatics seem to be fading >away. I did find a bunch of crap, mostly for roadside emergencies >that wouldn't fit under sports cars. Sadly nothing approaching the >version in my head. > >But you asked for clever: > >https://www.quickjack.com/ > >jim -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Jan 30 20:57:24 2021 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 19:57:24 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: References: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: I have one of the 5,000lb models (Costco had them on sale for less than $1K a while back). They work as advertised, but there's one quirk: since they're parallelogram-shaped, the platform moves forward as they're lowered. This makes it a bit tricky to place jackstands as the car moves forward as it's lowered. Maybe they should call them "QuirkJack?" On 1/30/2021 7:14 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Jim, > > Yes, I was thinking the same thing.? There should be some sort of > electric alternative, perhaps using one of the common battery packs > like Milwaukee.? But as you found, apparently no such thing exists > yet.? As for the Quickjack, those are definitely clever.? One concern > is the way they describe the sizing based on the kind of car.? I > wonder if there is a model that can handle both a small car like a > Miata and a large SUV.? I am not buying a selection of these things!? > Also, I can currently lift a project car for long term work and then > jack up another car for an oil change or brake job.? I guess I would > still need a jack and stands for that scenario. They do look nice, > though, and they would probably be very useful for most situations. > > -Steve T. > > At 09:24 PM 1/30/2021, Jim Franklin wrote: >> This got me thinking, that with the current battery and motor tech, >> there should be electric assist ones. Pneumatics seem to be fading >> away. I did find a bunch of crap, mostly for roadside emergencies >> that wouldn't fit under sports cars. Sadly nothing approaching the >> version in my head. >> >> But you asked for clever: >> >> https://www.quickjack.com/ >> >> jim > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Sat Jan 30 21:29:23 2021 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 23:29:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: References: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: It is possible to use it to put the car on jack stands? Everything I see shows the car lifted and then it stays on the quickjacks for the duration of the work. It looks like they make the appropriate jack stand spots inaccessible. I guess it depends on the vehicle. At 10:57 PM 1/30/2021, Bob Spidell wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="------------E222F060A886C2AB07BF38B8" >Content-Language: en-US > >I have one of the 5,000lb models (Costco had them on sale for less >than $1K a while back). They work as advertised, but there's one >quirk: since they're parallelogram-shaped, the platform moves >forward as they're lowered. This makes it a bit tricky to place >jackstands as the car moves forward as it's lowered. > >Maybe they should call them "QuirkJack?" > > >On 1/30/2021 7:14 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: >>Jim, >> >>Yes, I was thinking the same thing. There should be some sort of >>electric alternative, perhaps using one of the common battery packs >>like Milwaukee. But as you found, apparently no such thing exists >>yet. As for the Quickjack, those are definitely clever. One >>concern is the way they describe the sizing based on the kind of >>car. I wonder if there is a model that can handle both a small car >>like a Miata and a large SUV. I am not buying a selection of these >>things! Also, I can currently lift a project car for long term >>work and then jack up another car for an oil change or brake >>job. I guess I would still need a jack and stands for that >>scenario. They do look nice, though, and they would probably be >>very useful for most situations. >> >>-Steve T. >> >>At 09:24 PM 1/30/2021, Jim Franklin wrote: >>>This got me thinking, that with the current battery and motor >>>tech, there should be electric assist ones. Pneumatics seem to be >>>fading away. I did find a bunch of crap, mostly for roadside >>>emergencies that wouldn't fit under sports cars. Sadly nothing >>>approaching the version in my head. >>> >>>But you asked for clever: >>> >>>https://www.quickjack.com/ >>> >>>jim > >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Jan 30 21:47:33 2021 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 20:47:33 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: References: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <13524f0a-a344-381e-d1a3-ed2060172eed@comcast.net> It's possible; for my Healeys, I put the QJ rubber blocks under the chassis, then lower the rear springs and front A-arms on jackstands (but only to get the axles back to ride-height, and I leave the QJ there for safety). On my Mustang, I put the blocks under the seam welds. You have the same problem with a floor jack, which moves as you lower it, but it's not as pronounced. On 1/30/2021 8:29 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > It is possible to use it to put the car on jack stands? Everything I > see shows the car lifted and then it stays on the quickjacks for the > duration of the work.? It looks like they make the appropriate jack > stand spots inaccessible.? I guess it depends on the vehicle. > > > At 10:57 PM 1/30/2021, Bob Spidell wrote: >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> ?boundary="------------E222F060A886C2AB07BF38B8" >> Content-Language: en-US >> >> I have one of the 5,000lb models (Costco had them on sale for less >> than $1K a while back). They work as advertised, but there's one >> quirk: since they're parallelogram-shaped, the platform moves forward >> as they're lowered. This makes it a bit tricky to place jackstands as >> the car moves forward as it's lowered. >> >> Maybe they should call them "QuirkJack?" >> >> >> On 1/30/2021 7:14 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: >>> Jim, >>> >>> Yes, I was thinking the same thing.? There should be some sort of >>> electric alternative, perhaps using one of the common battery packs >>> like Milwaukee.? But as you found, apparently no such thing exists >>> yet.? As for the Quickjack, those are definitely clever.? One >>> concern is the way they describe the sizing based on the kind of >>> car.? I wonder if there is a model that can handle both a small car >>> like a Miata and a large SUV.? I am not buying a selection of these >>> things!? Also, I can currently lift a project car for long term work >>> and then jack up another car for an oil change or brake job. I guess >>> I would still need a jack and stands for that scenario. They do look >>> nice, though, and they would probably be very useful for most >>> situations. >>> >>> -Steve T. >>> >>> At 09:24 PM 1/30/2021, Jim Franklin wrote: >>>> This got me thinking, that with the current battery and motor tech, >>>> there should be electric assist ones. Pneumatics seem to be fading >>>> away. I did find a bunch of crap, mostly for roadside emergencies >>>> that wouldn't fit under sports cars. Sadly nothing approaching the >>>> version in my head. >>>> >>>> But you asked for clever: >>>> >>>> https://www.quickjack.com/ >>>> >>>> jim >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation? $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net >> > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: QJ.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 659887 bytes Desc: not available URL: From strovato at optonline.net Sat Jan 30 23:39:23 2021 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 01:39:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: <13524f0a-a344-381e-d1a3-ed2060172eed@comcast.net> References: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> <13524f0a-a344-381e-d1a3-ed2060172eed@comcast.net> Message-ID: If the floor is smooth and the jack has decent wheels, the jack should move as you lower it, instead of the car moving. At 11:47 PM 1/30/2021, Bob Spidell wrote: >It's possible; for my Healeys, I put the QJ rubber blocks under the >chassis, then lower the rear springs and front A-arms on jackstands >(but only to get the axles back to ride-height, and I leave the QJ >there for safety). On my Mustang, I put the blocks under the seam >welds. You have the same problem with a floor jack, which moves as >you lower it, but it's not as pronounced. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From nick at landform.co.uk Sun Jan 31 03:02:09 2021 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 10:02:09 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> References: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: On 31/01/2021 02:24, Jim Franklin wrote: > > But you asked for clever: > > https://www.quickjack.com/ > Interesting piece of kit, can be used transversely according to the website. Although that might make for interesting reactions when the car moves away from (or towards) you as you lift it. Like the portability and ease of setup. I have a lift using a similar principle, but beefed up, made by AC Hydraulic : http://www.profo.cz/files/doc/L20PH.pdf Had it 20+ years now and still satisfied/irritated with it. Ideal for brake and suspension work, exhausts not so much. Works for MX5 (Miata) up to 2 tonne 4x4 but needs an assortment of cradle blocks and ramps to avoid fouling exhausts on the cross member. But the cross member gives stability that won't be there with the Quickjacks. The portability means it can be used anywhere there is a stable foundation and a compressed air supply. The parallelogram action means that the handbrake should be off before lifting and lowering. AC Hydraulic/Weber make good stuff. I have a 6t trolley jack, good for LGV work. Nick Brearley From dirtbeard at gmail.com Sun Jan 31 08:00:07 2021 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 07:00:07 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] air/hydraulic floor jack In-Reply-To: References: <1F.70.31090.8A506106@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <97E6FA0B-6E83-45D7-957E-0299919BC4C2@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: Hi guys, I did all of my lifting with a standard 2.5 ton floor jack and four jack stands for decades. Although I still have a decent hydraulic floor jack that must be close to thirty years old now, I do have a four-post lift (Backyard Buddy), and bought some air jacks to use on with the lift (you cannot use a floor jack very easily with the lift, though I do have center panels for the lift. I have found, though, that I use the air jacks now on the floor almost exclusively instead of the floor jack. They go up so easily, quickly, controllably, etc., with just one finger and you can watch closely as you position them.. I bought Zendex (all USA made) and they have two heights (a two bag and a three bag). The two bag jack is ideal for sports cars (it will slide under my Lotus Elise,), but barely has enough lift for my GMC cargo van where the three bagger is much better. I also use the two bagger on my motorcycles: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=446D39C8B1E43758&id=446D39C8B1E43758%21166810&parId=446D39C8B1E43758%21166807&o=OneUp https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=446D39C8B1E43758&id=446D39C8B1E43758%21166817&parId=446D39C8B1E43758%21166807&o=OneUp For close work, like lifting a motorcycle high enough to slide an axle through the wheel and swing arm, these jacks are terrific. They are a little heavy and a little pricey, though there are cheaper Chinese copies out there. Thay make one on wheels that works like a floor jack as well: I have not used one, but it looks bulky: https://shop.zendextool.com/GA3620--GoJak%C2%AE-Air%E2%84%A2_p_179.html I also have the old fashion chain fall on an I-beam trolley that I still use often: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=446D39C8B1E43758&id=446D39C8B1E43758%21166813&parId=446D39C8B1E43758%21166807&o=OneUp And the Backyard Buddy: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=446D39C8B1E43758&id=446D39C8B1E43758%21166814&parId=446D39C8B1E43758%21166807&o=OneUp And if you have motorcycles, you really need one of these: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=446D39C8B1E43758&id=446D39C8B1E43758%21166815&parId=446D39C8B1E43758%21166807&o=OneUp For lifting purposes I still use a mix of all of them depending upon what works best for the particular task at hand. best, doug On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 2:04 AM nick brearley wrote: > > On 31/01/2021 02:24, Jim Franklin wrote: > > > > But you asked for clever: > > > > https://www.quickjack.com/ > > > Interesting piece of kit, can be used transversely according to the > website. Although that might make for interesting reactions when the car > moves away from (or towards) you as you lift it. Like the portability > and ease of setup. > > I have a lift using a similar principle, but beefed up, made by AC > Hydraulic : > > http://www.profo.cz/files/doc/L20PH.pdf > > Had it 20+ years now and still satisfied/irritated with it. Ideal for > brake and suspension work, exhausts not so much. Works for MX5 (Miata) > up to 2 tonne 4x4 but needs an assortment of cradle blocks and ramps to > avoid fouling exhausts on the cross member. But the cross member gives > stability that won't be there with the Quickjacks. The portability means > it can be used anywhere there is a stable foundation and a compressed > air supply. The parallelogram action means that the handbrake should be > off before lifting and lowering. > > AC Hydraulic/Weber make good stuff. I have a 6t trolley jack, good for > LGV work. > > Nick Brearley > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: