From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Mon Aug  2 13:02:52 2021
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 19:02:52 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We are switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor (including the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI.
thanks
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Mon Aug  2 13:12:46 2021
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 19:12:46 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YBjE2kYEiWdL96oyic1uZgTYSkB=Vq0GULDTLBrz9UBoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>,
 <CANuE7YBjE2kYEiWdL96oyic1uZgTYSkB=Vq0GULDTLBrz9UBoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB46298F61DC9E665E814068C6B4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

House has gas with a "T" in the line for the water heater. The gas line will be 10-12'.

It is a good sized house with two full bathrooms. I want to make sure that the water heater is big enough for a family when we finally sell.

Would a slightly smaller sized tank make that much different in the price though?

________________________________
From: John Innis <jdinnis at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 2, 2021 2:08 PM
To: Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] water heating installation

That seem within reason, but need more data.  Do you already have other gas appliances?  If so, how far will new gas lines need to be run?  That is a HUGE water heater, are you sure you need 75 gallons?  We went from a 60 Gallon electric to a 50 gallon gas and were quite happy, the gas heater recovered much faster than the electric one.

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 2:03 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com<mailto:tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>> wrote:
We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We are switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor (including the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI.
thanks
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net<mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From lists at dinospider.com  Mon Aug  2 13:13:30 2021
From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 12:13:30 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <a696e2b0-c461-5e4a-5a8a-c106c26c1813@dinospider.com>

 ? Offhand, I would say too high.? BUT how much work is involved ??? 
When going from gas to gas, its a simple half hour project.? I don't 
know what the work would be going from Electric to Gas, never done 
that.? I would assume the plumbing is simple, the only part I can't know 
about is installing the venting.? Is that a complicated install ? going 
through upstairs floor ? or just a simple hole in the ceiling and roof 
with a pipe ?

 ?In So. Cal. one of the best things I did was move the water heater 
from inside the house to outside and built a shed around it, super easy 
to change now.? But in WI it might get too cold in winter for that to be 
reasonable, a lot of heat would be lost.
 ?Not enough information to know for sure.

 ??? mike

 ?On 8/2/21 12:02 PM, Tim . wrote:
> We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We 
> are switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor 
> (including the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI.
> thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com
>

-- 
A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have it,
you'll probably never need one again.

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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Aug  2 13:56:52 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 14:56:52 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E2DFEDCA-D33A-49BF-B101-C4DBD4B2B0D5@icloud.com>

It never hurts to get more estimates. 

I had a furnace flue installed in my shop that took about 2 hours. It went through a metal roof, up the outside of the building about 5?, then through the overhang on the second floor - also metal. I supplied most of the materials & they charged $500. This was last year in Texas. 

Just guessing, but northern homes have basements, which will either require a longer flue or a power vent, which can be quite expensive. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 2, 2021, at 2:03 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

?
We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We are switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor (including the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI. 
thanks
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Mon Aug  2 14:43:25 2021
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 13:43:25 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgYNCt1mrA-Me5sxr-Dtcj+=hn8NY6FNMkOYMtfk9DHmcg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tim,

It would be about $1,500 for the water heater and $1,500 for the
installation. Without knowing how long the gas run would be, if there are
obstacles, how long the flue would be, sealing the roof, if there are
obstacles, etc., it does not sound ridiculous for a conversion. For a
replacement, <$2K would be expected.

I live in Los Angeles, though, and things almost certainly are more
expensive here...

best,

doug

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 12:03 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We are
> switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor (including
> the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI.
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
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From strovato at optonline.net  Mon Aug  2 16:12:24 2021
From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 18:12:24 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.nampr
 d19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <73.61.16221.2FD68016@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

How did you come up with that size?  From what I have read, gas 
heaters are typically smaller than electric because they recover 
quicker.  For example, 
https://www.totalhomesupply.com/water-heater-sizes says if your 
family size is 5 or more, you'll need an 80-gallon tank (electric) or 
a 50-gallon tank (natural gas or liquid propane).    As you said, I 
don't know how much the price would change with a smaller 
heater.  Also, I assume you have considered the tankless option.

-Steve T.

At 03:02 PM 8/2/2021, Tim . wrote:
>Content-Language: en-US
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> 
>boundary="_000_DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9DS7PR19MB4629namp_"
>
>We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. 
>We are switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and 
>labor (including the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI.
>thanks


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Aug  2 16:17:13 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:17:13 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <73.61.16221.2FD68016@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
References: <73.61.16221.2FD68016@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Message-ID: <B8FB4EC0-BCA3-4C3D-A7D6-60AF13A30FB2@icloud.com>

Around here (Texas) they install 70-75 gallon gas heaters if you have a jacuzzi tub. Most 2-3 bath homes get 40 gallon. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 2, 2021, at 5:14 PM, Steven Trovato <strovato at optonline.net> wrote:

? How did you come up with that size?  From what I have read, gas heaters are typically smaller than electric because they recover quicker.  For example, https://www.totalhomesupply.com/water-heater-sizes says if your family size is 5 or more, you?ll need an 80-gallon tank (electric) or a 50-gallon tank (natural gas or liquid propane).    As you said, I don't know how much the price would change with a smaller heater.  Also, I assume you have considered the tankless option.  

-Steve T.

At 03:02 PM 8/2/2021, Tim . wrote:
> Content-Language: en-US
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>          boundary="_000_DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9DS7PR19MB4629namp_"
> 
> We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We are switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor (including the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI. 
> thanks

	Virus-free. www.avast.com
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Mon Aug  2 16:25:00 2021
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 15:25:00 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <B8FB4EC0-BCA3-4C3D-A7D6-60AF13A30FB2@icloud.com>
References: <73.61.16221.2FD68016@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
 <B8FB4EC0-BCA3-4C3D-A7D6-60AF13A30FB2@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgZUL_=+fQhKNvfaOJKR0vpjStotMoS0ycYFbJAehoy8Gw@mail.gmail.com>

Here in Los Angeles, I believe it is determined by code based upon the
number of bathrooms, bedrooms, etc., in the house. Our 4 bed/4 bath house
has a 75 gallon gas water heater, no jacuzzi tub.

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 3:17 PM Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com> wrote:

> Around here (Texas) they install 70-75 gallon gas heaters if you have a
> jacuzzi tub. Most 2-3 bath homes get 40 gallon.
>
> Peace,
> Pat
>
> Pat Horne
> We support Habitat for Humanity
>
>
> On Aug 2, 2021, at 5:14 PM, Steven Trovato <strovato at optonline.net> wrote:
>
> ? How did you come up with that size?  From what I have read, gas heaters
> are typically smaller than electric because they recover quicker.  For
> example, https://www.totalhomesupply.com/water-heater-sizes says if your
> family size is *5 or more*, you?ll need an *80-gallon tank (electric)* or
> a *50-gallon tank (natural gas or liquid propane)*.    As you said, I
> don't know how much the price would change with a smaller heater.  Also, I
> assume you have considered the tankless option.
>
> -Steve T.
>
> At 03:02 PM 8/2/2021, Tim . wrote:
>
> Content-Language: en-US
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>
> boundary="_000_DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9DS7PR19MB4629namp_"
>
> We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We are
> switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor (including
> the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI.
> thanks
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
> <#m_-6699205806492531482_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
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> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
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>
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From tjcora at icloud.com  Mon Aug  2 20:01:54 2021
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 22:01:54 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A7C93F69-A55A-42EC-B4FC-353B92E783AC@icloud.com>

I would strongly urge you to consider installing an on demand heater. We did so several years ago to replace a 50 gallon tank type, and couldn't be more pleased. Never run out of hot water, gas bill in the summer (we also heat with gas, so in the winter that dominates our bill) is noticeably lower. With rebates, the unit ended up costing me about 600 bucks ($1200 or so purchase price), plus cost of some copper pipe, some iron pipe and about 4 hours of my time. 

Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 2, 2021, at 3:03 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We are switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor (including the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI. 
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Tue Aug  3 12:00:19 2021
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 18:00:19 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] water heating installation
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46298F61DC9E665E814068C6B4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB4629588DF39F65AC1E1DC98DB4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>,
 <CANuE7YBjE2kYEiWdL96oyic1uZgTYSkB=Vq0GULDTLBrz9UBoA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <DS7PR19MB46298F61DC9E665E814068C6B4EF9@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB4629E1ACFBC328ACA87F70FFB4F09@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks for the replies guys.

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Monday, August 2, 2021 2:12 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] water heating installation

House has gas with a "T" in the line for the water heater. The gas line will be 10-12'.

It is a good sized house with two full bathrooms. I want to make sure that the water heater is big enough for a family when we finally sell.

Would a slightly smaller sized tank make that much different in the price though?

________________________________
From: John Innis <jdinnis at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 2, 2021 2:08 PM
To: Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] water heating installation

That seem within reason, but need more data.  Do you already have other gas appliances?  If so, how far will new gas lines need to be run?  That is a HUGE water heater, are you sure you need 75 gallons?  We went from a 60 Gallon electric to a 50 gallon gas and were quite happy, the gas heater recovered much faster than the electric one.

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 2:03 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com<mailto:tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>> wrote:
We need to replace an aging electric water heater before it fails. We are switching to gas. Does close to $3000 for a 75 gallon and labor (including the venting) sound right to you all? We live in southern WI.
thanks
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net<mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
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From jniolon at att.net  Thu Aug  5 08:33:50 2021
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:33:50 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problems with truck
References: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>

Took the truck (53 ford f-100) out for a drive yesterday?first time since the 
Grand Nationals (I?ve been busy) Ran great for about 30 minutes with a couple 
of stops during the ride? each time it started right and showed no problems. 
Electric fan and a/c running the whole time As I pulled out of one business and 
headed home the truck stumbled and died..almost like it was out of gas? ( had 
over a half a tank) I pulled into a business and tried to start it and all I 
got was a ?click?. Dash Volt meter read about 11 volts with switch on and 
dropped to zero when hitting the starter. Waited about 10 minutes and it 
started right up? got it home, shut it off and same thing ?click?.

Battery has been on a battery tender full time since May and showed 13.7 volts 
on VOM connected to the battery before the ride.

Battery is 2 years old Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA ?  

Davis DUI ignition (which could have quit when battery voltage got low)

All cables are new with 1/0 welding cable for starting circuit and battery 
ground to frame
engine to frame, frame to cab and frame to bed are all #4 wire to bare metal 
connection points with dialectic grease.

At first glance...when running,  the volt meter on dash shows over 13 volts so 
I think alternator is good 

did a load test with a H.F. (100 amp) load tester showed battery dropping to 10 
volts during 10 second load... recovered to 12. 

Put truck up on stands and dropped battery (under cab)  checked all cables and 
connections from battery to starter including solenoid and ground connections.
all tight, no corrosion on terminals and  cells full.  this truck finished last 
year and everything is new.  Starter solenoid is a Cole-Hersee 200 amp 
continuous draw solenoid.

Starter is new last year and 6-7 inches away and below headers so heat soak 
isn't causing the problem

Set it back down and charged it for 30 minutes at 10 amps... battery showed 12.9 volts..  started ok and put meter on alternator
terminals... alternator putting out 14.5 - 14.8 volts...  varies a little with engine speed.... so alternator is good I think.

 I did a load test again.,.. idle voltage reading 12.9 volts on two different fluke meters... and during the load test it dropped to 12.3 then recovered to 12.7...so I'm 
assuming the battery is good, it was just low before the first load test.

here's an odd thing.. I have a 12 volt terminal on the right frame rail that powers the elec radiator fan, tilt hood motors and trinary switch

with the a/c on, headlights on and elec radiator fan running (as much load as I can put on it)... the alternator o/p at 14.5 volts, the voltage at the terminal on rail reads 11.5 volts.  The terminal is 4' 
from battery and fed with #4 stranded wire.

that's about all the detail I can give you... any ideas why it stalled and quit..???   and why the terminal point only reads 11.5 versus the 14.5 at the alternator.

I'm 
at the wall

thanks
john
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 03:18:49 2021
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 05:18:49 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problems with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CPuYYU6Ld3sMycVVkXcs11Q=BeLnm-T7HZbZKk-zdVCig@mail.gmail.com>

When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?

My suspicion based on reading this at 5:00 AM is an intermittent short
in the battery itself.  Regular lead-acid battery?

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 12:07 AM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>
> Took the truck (53 ford f-100) out for a drive yesterday?first time since the Grand Nationals (I?ve been busy) Ran great for about 30 minutes with a couple of stops during the ride? each time it started right and showed no problems. Electric fan and a/c running the whole time As I pulled out of one business and headed home the truck stumbled and died..almost like it was out of gas? ( had over a half a tank) I pulled into a business and tried to start it and all I got was a ?click?. Dash Volt meter read about 11 volts with switch on and dropped to zero when hitting the starter. Waited about 10 minutes and it started right up? got it home, shut it off and same thing ?click?.
>
> Battery has been on a battery tender full time since May and showed 13.7 volts on VOM connected to the battery before the ride.
>
> Battery is 2 years old Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA ?
>
> Davis DUI ignition (which could have quit when battery voltage got low)
>
> All cables are new with 1/0 welding cable for starting circuit and battery ground to frame
> engine to frame, frame to cab and frame to bed are all #4 wire to bare metal connection points with dialectic grease.
>
> At first glance...when running,  the volt meter on dash shows over 13 volts so I think alternator is good
>
> did a load test with a H.F. (100 amp) load tester showed battery dropping to 10 volts during 10 second load... recovered to 12.
>
> Put truck up on stands and dropped battery (under cab)  checked all cables and connections from battery to starter including solenoid and ground connections.
> all tight, no corrosion on terminals and  cells full.  this truck finished last year and everything is new.  Starter solenoid is a Cole-Hersee 200 amp continuous draw solenoid.
>
> Starter is new last year and 6-7 inches away and below headers so heat soak isn't causing the problem
>
> Set it back down and charged it for 30 minutes at 10 amps... battery showed 12.9 volts..  started ok and put meter on alternator
> terminals... alternator putting out 14.5 - 14.8 volts...  varies a little with engine speed.... so alternator is good I think.
>
>  I did a load test again.,.. idle voltage reading 12.9 volts on two different fluke meters... and during the load test it dropped to 12.3 then recovered to 12.7...so I'm assuming the battery is good, it was just low before the first load test.
>
> here's an odd thing.. I have a 12 volt terminal on the right frame rail that powers the elec radiator fan, tilt hood motors and trinary switch
>
> with the a/c on, headlights on and elec radiator fan running (as much load as I can put on it)... the alternator o/p at 14.5 volts, the voltage at the terminal on rail reads 11.5 volts.  The terminal is 4' from battery and fed with #4 stranded wire.
>
> that's about all the detail I can give you... any ideas why it stalled and quit..???   and why the terminal point only reads 11.5 versus the 14.5 at the alternator.
>
> I'm at the wall
>
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Fri Aug  6 03:39:44 2021
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 05:39:44 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problems with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <813622a3-9f8c-c115-c82f-549c4ad5f64b@comcast.net>

[Re-sending because I failed to copy the list; if I've misstated
anything, I want to hear the corrections.]

How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery? That should
be #4 minimum also, else the voltage drop from alternator to battery
will reduce the battery's voltage such that it won't really charge.

Voltage at the battery posts is what drives current in. If it is less
than 13.2+/- volts, the battery won't be charging.

The battery voltages all sound somewhat low, which is why I'm suspecting
alternator-to-battery connection. It could also be resistance in the
alternator frame to engine to vehicle frame to battery post connection
chain.

HTH,
Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ <https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>

On 2021-08-05 10:33 a.m., john niolon wrote:
> Took the truck (53 ford f-100)?out for a drive yesterday?first time
> since the Grand Nationals (I?ve been busy) Ran great for about 30
> minutes with a couple of stops during the ride? each time it started
> right and showed no problems. Electric fan and a/c running the whole
> time As I pulled out of one business and headed home the truck stumbled
> and died..almost like it was out of gas? ( had over a half a tank) I
> pulled into a business and tried to start it and all I got was a
> ?click?. Dash Volt meter read about 11 volts with switch on and dropped
> to zero when hitting the starter. Waited about 10 minutes and it started
> right up? got it home, shut it off and same thing ?click?.
> 
> Battery has been on a battery tender full time since May and showed 13.7
> volts on VOM connected to the battery before the ride.
> 
> Battery is 2 years old Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA ??
> 
> Davis DUI ignition (which could have quit when battery voltage got low)
> 
> All cables are new with 1/0 welding cable for starting circuit and
> battery ground to frame
> engine to frame, frame to cab and frame to bed are all #4 wire to bare
> metal connection points with dialectic grease.
> 
> At first glance...when running, ?the volt meter on dash shows over 13
> volts so I think alternator is good
> ?
> did a load test with a H.F. (100 amp)?load tester showed battery
> dropping to 10 volts during 10 second load... recovered to 12.?
> ?
> Put truck up on stands and dropped battery (under cab)? checked all
> cables and connections?from battery to starter including solenoid and
> ground connections.
> all tight, no corrosion on terminals and? cells full.? this truck
> finished last year and everything is new.? Starter solenoid is
> a?Cole-Hersee 200 amp continuous draw solenoid.
> ?
> Starter is new last year and 6-7 inches away and below headers so heat
> soak isn't causing the problem
> ?
> Set it back down and charged it for 30 minutes at 10 amps... battery
> showed 12.9 volts..? started ok and put meter on alternator
> terminals... alternator putting out 14.5 - 14.8 volts...? varies
> a?little with engine speed....?so alternator is good I think.
> ?
> ?I did a load test again.,.. idle voltage reading 12.9 volts on two
> different fluke?meters... and during the load test it dropped to 12.3
> then recovered to 12.7...so I'm assuming the battery is good, it was
> just low before the first load test.
> ?
> here's an odd thing.. I have a 12 volt terminal on the right frame rail
> that powers the elec radiator fan, tilt hood motors and trinary switch
> ?
> with the a/c on, headlights on and elec?radiator fan running (as much
> load as I can put on it)...?the alternator o/p at 14.5 volts, the
> voltage at the terminal on rail reads 11.5 volts.? The terminal is 4'
> from battery and fed with #4 stranded wire.
> ?
> that's about all the detail I can give you... any ideas why it stalled
> and quit..????? and why the terminal point only reads 11.5 versus the
> 14.5 at the alternator.
> ?
> I'm at the wall
> ?
> thanks
> john
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net
> 

From dave1massey at cs.com  Fri Aug  6 06:49:21 2021
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 12:49:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problems with truck
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CPuYYU6Ld3sMycVVkXcs11Q=BeLnm-T7HZbZKk-zdVCig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
 <CAO8Q7CPuYYU6Ld3sMycVVkXcs11Q=BeLnm-T7HZbZKk-zdVCig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <177540743.71499.1628254161957@mail.yahoo.com>

 I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.
 
Dave 

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2021 4:18 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problems with truck

When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?? Lights, etc.?

My suspicion based on reading this at 5:00 AM is an intermittent short
in the battery itself.? Regular lead-acid battery?

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 12:07 AM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:
>
> Took the truck (53 ford f-100) out for a drive yesterday?first time since the Grand Nationals (I?ve been busy) Ran great for about 30 minutes with a couple of stops during the ride? each time it started right and showed no problems. Electric fan and a/c running the whole time As I pulled out of one business and headed home the truck stumbled and died..almost like it was out of gas? ( had over a half a tank) I pulled into a business and tried to start it and all I got was a ?click?. Dash Volt meter read about 11 volts with switch on and dropped to zero when hitting the starter. Waited about 10 minutes and it started right up? got it home, shut it off and same thing ?click?.
>
> Battery has been on a battery tender full time since May and showed 13.7 volts on VOM connected to the battery before the ride.
>
> Battery is 2 years old Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA ?
>
> Davis DUI ignition (which could have quit when battery voltage got low)
>
> All cables are new with 1/0 welding cable for starting circuit and battery ground to frame
> engine to frame, frame to cab and frame to bed are all #4 wire to bare metal connection points with dialectic grease.
>
> At first glance...when running,? the volt meter on dash shows over 13 volts so I think alternator is good
>
> did a load test with a H.F. (100 amp) load tester showed battery dropping to 10 volts during 10 second load... recovered to 12.
>
> Put truck up on stands and dropped battery (under cab)? checked all cables and connections from battery to starter including solenoid and ground connections.
> all tight, no corrosion on terminals and? cells full.? this truck finished last year and everything is new.? Starter solenoid is a Cole-Hersee 200 amp continuous draw solenoid.
>
> Starter is new last year and 6-7 inches away and below headers so heat soak isn't causing the problem
>
> Set it back down and charged it for 30 minutes at 10 amps... battery showed 12.9 volts..? started ok and put meter on alternator
> terminals... alternator putting out 14.5 - 14.8 volts...? varies a little with engine speed.... so alternator is good I think.
>
>? I did a load test again.,.. idle voltage reading 12.9 volts on two different fluke meters... and during the load test it dropped to 12.3 then recovered to 12.7...so I'm assuming the battery is good, it was just low before the first load test.
>
> here's an odd thing.. I have a 12 volt terminal on the right frame rail that powers the elec radiator fan, tilt hood motors and trinary switch
>
> with the a/c on, headlights on and elec radiator fan running (as much load as I can put on it)... the alternator o/p at 14.5 volts, the voltage at the terminal on rail reads 11.5 volts.? The terminal is 4' from battery and fed with #4 stranded wire.
>
> that's about all the detail I can give you... any ideas why it stalled and quit..???? and why the terminal point only reads 11.5 versus the 14.5 at the alternator.
>
> I'm at the wall
>
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation? $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation? $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 06:49:15 2021
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 07:49:15 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problems with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YB0cAKF9VeWa7rg4gh3tR9C4QVAO83AC0PMA0aa8VgiaA@mail.gmail.com>

This sounds like a bad/intermittent ground.  We had very similar issues on
a friends car and eventually trace it to the engine to frame ground strap.
The strap was loose and when it rattled just right there was a large
voltage drop and stuff stopped working.  But when we checked voltage,
everything seemed fine.  How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to
the frame or to the motor?

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:07 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> Took the truck (53 ford f-100) out for a drive yesterday?first time since
> the Grand Nationals (I?ve been busy) Ran great for about 30 minutes with a
> couple of stops during the ride? each time it started right and showed no
> problems. Electric fan and a/c running the whole time As I pulled out of
> one business and headed home the truck stumbled and died..almost like it
> was out of gas? ( had over a half a tank) I pulled into a business and
> tried to start it and all I got was a ?click?. Dash Volt meter read about
> 11 volts with switch on and dropped to zero when hitting the starter.
> Waited about 10 minutes and it started right up? got it home, shut it off
> and same thing ?click?.
>
> Battery has been on a battery tender full time since May and showed 13.7
> volts on VOM connected to the battery before the ride.
>
> Battery is 2 years old Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA ?
>
> Davis DUI ignition (which could have quit when battery voltage got low)
>
> All cables are new with 1/0 welding cable for starting circuit and battery
> ground to frame
> engine to frame, frame to cab and frame to bed are all #4 wire to bare
> metal connection points with dialectic grease.
>
> At first glance...when running,  the volt meter on dash shows over 13
> volts so I think alternator is good
>
> did a load test with a H.F. (100 amp) load tester showed battery dropping
> to 10 volts during 10 second load... recovered to 12.
>
> Put truck up on stands and dropped battery (under cab)  checked all cables
> and connections from battery to starter including solenoid and ground
> connections.
> all tight, no corrosion on terminals and  cells full.  this truck
> finished last year and everything is new.  Starter solenoid is
> a Cole-Hersee 200 amp continuous draw solenoid.
>
> Starter is new last year and 6-7 inches away and below headers so heat
> soak isn't causing the problem
>
> Set it back down and charged it for 30 minutes at 10 amps... battery
> showed 12.9 volts..  started ok and put meter on alternator
> terminals... alternator putting out 14.5 - 14.8 volts...  varies a little
> with engine speed.... so alternator is good I think.
>
>  I did a load test again.,.. idle voltage reading 12.9 volts on two
> different fluke meters... and during the load test it dropped to 12.3 then
> recovered to 12.7...so I'm assuming the battery is good, it was just low
> before the first load test.
>
> here's an odd thing.. I have a 12 volt terminal on the right frame rail
> that powers the elec radiator fan, tilt hood motors and trinary switch
>
> with the a/c on, headlights on and elec radiator fan running (as much load
> as I can put on it)... the alternator o/p at 14.5 volts, the voltage at the
> terminal on rail reads 11.5 volts.  The terminal is 4' from battery and fed
> with #4 stranded wire.
>
> that's about all the detail I can give you... any ideas why it stalled and
> quit..???   and why the terminal point only reads 11.5 versus the 14.5 at
> the alternator.
>
> I'm at the wall
>
> thanks
> john
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Fri Aug  6 06:50:26 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 07:50:26 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problems with truck
Message-ID: <8D13982D-8057-45DE-BF4C-8B18379422F3@icloud.com>

John, what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the electrical system? Is it a dedicated connection to the battery or is it a tap into the rest of the electrical system?

If it?s dedicated, I?d look @ the possibility that the battery is discharged and/or the changing system is not working correctly. Have the battery checked. 

If it?s not, I suspect either an undersized wire or a bad connection. 

You don?t mention any fuses in these circuits. Check voltage @ the fuses both to get more data & check for voltage drops. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 5, 2021, at 11:07 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:


From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org  Fri Aug  6 07:18:11 2021
From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 09:18:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problems with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4YZ76KH.7AHYM3yYtnG@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <08321f94-4639-5165-84e7-36c5908cd85c@sackheads.org>

On 8/5/21 10:33, john niolon wrote:
> with the a/c on, headlights on and elec?radiator fan running (as much 
> load as I can put on it)...?the alternator o/p at 14.5 volts, the 
> voltage at the terminal on rail reads 11.5 volts.? The terminal is 4' 
> from battery and fed with #4 stranded wire.

I think this might be the smoking gun.? The voltage you're seeing at 
that terminal with the engine 'on' is roughly what I would expect to see 
if you were powering things only with your battery.? But let's check 
some things before I jump to conclusions...

1. Double-check the electrical path between this terminal and the 
battery/alternator to make sure there's no corrosion that might increase 
resistance.

2. What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but 
the engine 'off' ?

3. How big is the alternator?? Do you know offhand what its rated output 
is at various engine RPMs (some aftermarket manufacturers provide this 
info).? Sometimes folks with big audio systems will run into 
dead-battery problems after installing a high-output alternator because 
the new alternator's 'preferred' RPMs don't match up with the owner's 
typical driving style.

-- J



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From jniolon at att.net  Fri Aug  6 07:58:12 2021
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 08:58:12 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
References: <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj@johns-desktop>

jeff?.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA  regular 
Walmart battery

When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  when 
it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and I 
remember the a/c fan still blowing


Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed 
from battery to alternator is #4 wire


Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this 
year and clean, no corrosion on connections

John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the 
motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to check 
under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  
I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's 
own... 
it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is grounded through it's 
mount.

Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the 
electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 
4' piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.

Jimmie..    What's 
the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'    
hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?  I'll do that

 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing

ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...  
 going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a 500 
amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.  Battery 
is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, 
I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a 
low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large 
pain.

points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...   the saga continues

thanks for all the replies and points to check...   you guys are the best

john
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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Fri Aug  6 16:20:13 2021
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 17:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 99 Suburban,
 Fuel Pump lock ring (snap ring style) failure
Message-ID: <CANuE7YBtL0HjrGrScBx2tpHccB-CBasmtwxsEGUNV5KZtv8fOA@mail.gmail.com>

I recently (like 4 weeks ago) replace the rusted out fuel tank on my '99
Suburban. I did the whole 9 yards, new tank, new pump, new straps, etc. But
today, when I filled the tank, gas started gushing out from under the
vehicle. Looking at the opt of the tank it appears that the snap-ring style
fuel pump retainer has failed and the pump is pressed up out of the tank.
Anyone know why this happened? Did I just get a crappy snap ring? Is there
some other step I was supposed to take after installing the lock ring? I
have to say, I don't think this is an improvement over the old rotating
style lock rings.
-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From jniolon at att.net  Mon Aug  9 11:55:51 2021
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 12:55:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>

sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!

Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since 
then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and 
voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the 
alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  battery is 
good based on her years of
battery experience







----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck



jeff?.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA  regular 
Walmart battery

When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  when 
it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and I 
remember the a/c fan still blowing


Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed 
from battery to alternator is #4 wire


Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this 
year and clean, no corrosion on connections

John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the 
motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to check 
under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  
I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's 
own... 
it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is grounded through it's 
mount.

Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the 
electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 
4' piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.

Jimmie..    What's 
the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'    
hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?  I'll do that

 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing

ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...  
 going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a 500 
amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.  Battery 
is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, 
I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a 
low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large 
pain.

points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...   the saga continues

thanks for all the replies and points to check...   you guys are the best

john
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Aug  9 12:30:34 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 13:30:34 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <2924AE66-4A9B-41DC-8630-03C0E6CB8E51@icloud.com>

John,
Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, terminal on other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you can get to the conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be enough to find the problem. 

Peace,
Pat


Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!
 
Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  battery is good based on her years of
battery experience
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
jeff?.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA  regular Walmart battery
 
When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  when it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and I remember the a/c fan still blowing
 
 
Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed from battery to alternator is #4 wire
 
Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this year and clean, no corrosion on connections
 
John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is grounded through it's mount.
 
Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.
 
Jimmie..    What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'    hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?  I'll do that
 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing
 
ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...   going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a 500 amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.  Battery is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large pain.
 
points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...   the saga continues
 
thanks for all the replies and points to check...   you guys are the best
 
john
 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

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From dave1massey at cs.com  Mon Aug  9 13:02:32 2021
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 19:02:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj@johns-desktop> <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1642131687.396035.1628535752145@mail.yahoo.com>

 Check between frame ground and battery negative.? A rusty connection there can cause all manner of similar problems.
 
Dave 

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 9, 2021 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck

#yiv3990092498 body {margin:0.7em;}#yiv3990092498 body.yiv3990092498OECFntDef, #yiv3990092498 body.yiv3990092498OECFntDef div {font-family:"Segoe UI", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;}sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!?Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...? battery is good based on her years ofbattery experience
??
----- Original Message -----From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AMSubject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck#yiv3990092498 body {margin:0.7em;}#yiv3990092498 body.yiv3990092498OECFntDef, #yiv3990092498 body.yiv3990092498OECFntDef div {font-family:"Segoe UI", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;}
jeff?.???? regular led acid battery ?????? Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA? regular Walmart battery?When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?? Lights, etc.?? when it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart,?.. starter just clicked and I remember the a/c fan still blowing??Donald...? How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery??? feed from battery to alternator is #4 wire
?Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.??? battery clamps are new this year and clean, no corrosion on connections?John...?? How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the motor???? voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame? voltmeter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not engine.? I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame?and of course the alternator is grounded through it's mount.?Pat...? what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the electrical system?? Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' piece of ?#4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.?Jimmie..??? What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'??? hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?? I'll do that?How big is the alternator???? 100 amp single wire from CVF racing?ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...?? going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.? I bought a 500 amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.? Battery is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a low maintenance item ...duh.?? so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large pain.?points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...?? the saga continues?thanks for all the replies and points to check...?? you guys are the best?john?_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation? $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com

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From jniolon at att.net  Mon Aug  9 13:57:47 2021
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 14:57:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1642131687.396035.1628535752145@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj@johns-desktop> <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>
 <1642131687.396035.1628535752145@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1UZ4czMXy8.BHcJHdT5bis@johns-desktop>

checked all ground connections and resistance thru cables

neg post on battery to ground bolt in frame  0.37 ohms
all 1/0 cables read 0.2 to 0.3 ohms



----- Original Message -----
From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
Reply-To: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
To: <jniolon at att.net>, <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/9/2021 2:02:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck



Check between frame ground and battery negative.  A rusty connection there can 
cause all manner of similar problems.



Dave 













-----Original Message-----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 9, 2021 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck


sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!

Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since 
then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and 
voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the 
alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  battery is 
good based on her years of
battery experience







----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck



jeff?.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA  regular 
Walmart battery

When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  when 
it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and I 
remember the a/c fan still blowing


Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed 
from battery to alternator is #4 wire


Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this 
year and clean, no corrosion on connections

John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the 
motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to check 
under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  
I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's 
own... 
it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is grounded through it's 
mount.

Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the 
electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 
4' piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.

Jimmie..    What's 
the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'    
hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?  I'll do that

 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing

ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...  
 going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a 500 
amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.  Battery 
is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, 
I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a 
low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large 
pain.

points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...   the saga continues

thanks for all the replies and points to check..   you guys are the best

john

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dave1massey at cs.com
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From jniolon at att.net  Mon Aug  9 14:10:29 2021
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 15:10:29 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <2924AE66-4A9B-41DC-8630-03C0E6CB8E51@icloud.com>
References: <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>
 <2924AE66-4A9B-41DC-8630-03C0E6CB8E51@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1UZ4czii2p.CEVo1rpNaml@johns-desktop>

Pat, while the battery was out I checked resistance on all battery, starter and 
ground cables... all read from .003 to .004 ohm resistance end to end

 also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 1200 rpm  14.6 
volts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickered down to 14.3 - 14.4 to  
then
back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200

did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator terminals

j



----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com>
To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck


John,
Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, terminal on 
other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you can get to the 
conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be enough to find the 
problem. 


Peace,
Pat



Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity



On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:


? 
sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!

Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since 
then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and 
voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the 
alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  battery is 
good based on her years of
battery experience







----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck



jeff?.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA  regular 
Walmart battery

When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  when 
it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and I 
remember the a/c fan still blowing


Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed 
from battery to alternator is #4 wire


Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this 
year and clean, no corrosion on connections

John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the 
motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to check 
under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  
I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's 
own... 
it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is grounded through it's 
mount.

Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the 
electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 
4' piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.

Jimmie..    What's 
the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'    
hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?  I'll do that

 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing

ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...  
 going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a 500 
amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.  Battery 
is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, 
I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a 
low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large 
pain.

points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...   the saga continues

thanks for all the replies and points to check..   you guys are the best

john

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
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From doug at dougbraun.com  Mon Aug  9 16:22:19 2021
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 18:22:19 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4czMXy8.BHcJHdT5bis@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>
 <1642131687.396035.1628535752145@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1UZ4czMXy8.BHcJHdT5bis@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9Vg0sixOxnLgNgk_YTZ73sJJK4w7_4xkoCcSp6=Mz3aZw@mail.gmail.com>

What does your meter read when you just touch the two leads to each other?
A lot of meters will never show a value less than 0.1 or 0.2 ohms.

But the 0.37 is definitely suspicious.

Doug

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 3:59 PM john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> checked all ground connections and resistance thru cables
>
> neg post on battery to ground bolt in frame  0.37 ohms
> all 1/0 cables read 0.2 to 0.3 ohms
>
>
>
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From dave1massey at cs.com  Mon Aug  9 19:57:24 2021
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 01:57:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4czMXy8.BHcJHdT5bis@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj.ref@johns-desktop>
 <1UZ4ZeHN5p.88LXRt04Wgj@johns-desktop> <1UZ4cxznpw.APi6hx7gINL@johns-desktop>
 <1642131687.396035.1628535752145@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1UZ4czMXy8.BHcJHdT5bis@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <528060951.534793.1628560644516@mail.yahoo.com>

 That's pretty high.? If the current is 10A you will have a 3 volt drop across that cable.
 
Dave 

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>; shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 9, 2021 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck

#yiv1494141348 body {margin:0.7em;}#yiv1494141348 body.yiv1494141348OECFntDef, #yiv1494141348 body.yiv1494141348OECFntDef div {font-family:Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;}checked all ground connections and resistance thru cables?neg post on battery to ground bolt in frame? 0.37 ohmsall 1/0 cables read 0.2 to 0.3 ohms?
----- Original Message -----From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>Reply-To: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>To: <jniolon at att.net>, <shop-talk at autox.team.net>Sent: 8/9/2021 2:02:32 PMSubject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truckCheck between frame ground and battery negative.? A rusty connection there can cause all manner of similar problems.

Dave 



-----Original Message-----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 9, 2021 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck

#yiv1494141348 body {margin:0.7em;}#yiv1494141348 body.yiv1494141348OECFntDef, #yiv1494141348 body.yiv1494141348OECFntDef div {font-family:Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;}sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!?Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...? battery is good based on her years ofbattery experience
??
----- Original Message -----From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AMSubject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck#yiv1494141348 body {margin:0.7em;}#yiv1494141348 body.yiv1494141348OECFntDef, #yiv1494141348 body.yiv1494141348OECFntDef div {font-family:Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;}
jeff?.???? regular led acid battery ?????? Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA? regular Walmart battery?When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?? Lights, etc.?? when it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart,?.. starter just clicked and I remember the a/c fan still blowing??Donald...? How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery??? feed from battery to alternator is #4 wire
?Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.??? battery clamps are new this year and clean, no corrosion on connections?John...?? How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the motor???? voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame? voltmeter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not engine.? I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame?and of course the alternator is grounded through it's mount.?Pat...? what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the electrical system?? Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' piece of ?#4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.?Jimmie..??? What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'??? hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?? I'll do that?How big is the alternator???? 100 amp single wire from CVF racing?ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...?? going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.? I bought a 500 amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.? Battery is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a low maintenance item ...duh.?? so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large pain.?points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...?? the saga continues?thanks for all the replies and points to check..?? you guys are the best?john?_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Tue Aug 10 06:49:10 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 07:49:10 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4czii2p.CEVo1rpNaml@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4czii2p.CEVo1rpNaml@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <DAF7EF6E-B688-41A8-BD56-75966C991826@icloud.com>

John, here?s a little electrical theory for you, hope it helps. 

Resistance measurements on a vehicle are not generally useful for circuits that handle higher currents but works better for circuits that deal with signals. It is useful just as a open/short diagnosis. Here?s an example. A wire carrying 40A current with 1V drop will have a resistance of .025 ohm, much too low to be a real indication. Voltage, either to ground (the same ground point for all measurements) or voltage drop across a wire is the best way to find bad connections or undersized wires, your readings will not be near the end of the range or the meter. That?s why I recommended the series of voltage readings all along the wire from the alternator to the battery. 

This approach also works well for grounds. When working with grounds it is best to use a single ground reference point or do voltage drops across each ground wire. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:10 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

? Pat, while the battery was out I checked resistance on all battery, starter and ground cables... all read from .003 to .004 ohm resistance end to end
 also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 1200 rpm  14.6 volts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickered down to 14.3 - 14.4 to  then
back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200
 
did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator terminals
 
j
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com>
To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
John,
Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, terminal on other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you can get to the conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be enough to find the problem. 

Peace,
Pat


Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!
 
Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  battery is good based on her years of
battery experience
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
jeff?.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA  regular Walmart battery
 
When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  when it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and I remember the a/c fan still blowing
 
 
Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed from battery to alternator is #4 wire
 
Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this year and clean, no corrosion on connections
 
John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is grounded through it's mount.
 
Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.
 
Jimmie..    What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'    hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?  I'll do that
 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing
 
ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...   going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a 500 amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.  Battery is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large pain.
 
points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...   the saga continues
 
thanks for all the replies and points to check..   you guys are the best
 
john
 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue Aug 10 07:23:37 2021
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 09:23:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>


Hey gang,

I have a Craftsman 5 hp 30 gal compressor that I purchased some time
around '90.  Here are the particulars:

Compressor:  Model 919.176951
                  MO-6436

Motor:        GE Model 5KCR48SR59W
Part #:       C-MO 3013
RPM:	       3450
Volt:          230
Amp:         13.1A
Shaft size:   5/8" or 16mm

SCFM @ 40 PSI	11.3
              90 PSI	 9.3
	   125 PSI	 8.0

Cut In  pressure - 100
Cut Out pressure - 125

The other day I was using my nail gun putting up molding around a window
in my family room.  All of a sudden the nail gun quit nailing.  After checking
the nail gun and not finding anything obviously wrong with it, I went down
into the shop to see if the compressor was on or if I had inadvertently
turned it off (old age, I forget what I just did).  Anyway, the switch on the
compressor was in the ON position, but there was only about 40 psi in the
tank.  I pulled the compressor's plug and stuck in the 220V recepticle, and
was getting a reading of 0V on both legs.  So I go to the circuit breaker
panel and reset the breaker, nothing.  So for some reason the breaker has
bit the dirt.  I pull the breaker and head off the hardware store for a new
breaker.  Put it in and the compressor fires back up, and I finish putting the
trim on the window.

Well the next day, I needed the compressor so I turned it on, and I was
working around the shop.  The compressor came up to pressure and shut
off.  After using the air to clean off the filter on my shop vac, the
compressor went to cut on, but it didn't start.  I could hear a humming.  I
run over the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips the new
breaker.  I pull the saftey shield and try to turn the flywheel to see if the
compressor/motor has frozen.  It moved easily, so both compressor and
motor were OK.  I turn the compressor back on, and it fires up.  After a few
cycles, I hear the humming again.  Again, but the time I can get to it, it
has tripped the breaker.  So there is something wrong with the motor.

Anyone have any ideas?  I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on the
armature, or a bad start capacitor.  If it's the capacitor, why would it start
after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?

I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!  I
think that's a little steep.  So I guess I'll open it up and shot gun the start
capacitor.  Is there anything else I should l for while I'm in there?

I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it's apart.  I also don't 
see any place
to oil the motor.  So I'm assuming that it has bearings that are lubricated for
live.  Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?

TIA

John







John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Tue Aug 10 07:32:36 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:32:36 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <90F39162-1127-4CD3-B261-621310E89138@icloud.com>

John, is there a start capacitor on the motor? If so, see if it is leaking or swollen. You should be able to have the motor shop test it for free. If there are two capacitors, one is start & one is run. They will be of different capacities so you can get them back in the correct place. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:25 AM, John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips the new
breaker.  I pull the saftey shield and try to turn the flywheel

From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org  Tue Aug 10 08:32:18 2021
From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:32:18 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <0fd32c48-1002-34ba-2b3e-938e4c7ff013@sackheads.org>

On 8/10/21 09:23, John T. Blair wrote:
>
> compressor went to cut on, but it didn't start.? I could hear a 
> humming.? I
> run over the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips 
> the new
> breaker. 


Try the following:

1. Turn the compressor off
2. Bleed off the pressure in the tank down to, say, 30-40psi
3. Turn the compressor on.

What happens?? Does it start?

Sounds like your unloader valve might be going bad though since you have 
a bonafide 5hp motor, I'm a little surprised it can't power through it.? 
What size circuit do you have it on?? 30A?




From doug at dougbraun.com  Tue Aug 10 08:33:41 2021
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:33:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9Ux4fgVH5ok85-r_zGyZM6+dzNFUTG7dJgUh8aJn40XzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't there a centrifugal switch that disconnects the start capacitor as
soon as the motor starts spinning?
Possibly that isn't working properly?

Doug

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:25 AM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

>
> Anyone have any ideas?  I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on the
> armature, or a bad start capacitor.  If it's the capacitor, why would it
> start
> after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?
>
> I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!  I
> think that's a little steep.  So I guess I'll open it up and shot gun the
> start
> capacitor.  Is there anything else I should l for while I'm in there?
>
> I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it's apart.  I also don't
> see any place
> to oil the motor.  So I'm assuming that it has bearings that are
> lubricated for
> live.  Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?
>
>
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From phoenix722 at comcast.net  Tue Aug 10 09:01:52 2021
From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:01:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos
In-Reply-To: <0fd32c48-1002-34ba-2b3e-938e4c7ff013@sackheads.org>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
 <0fd32c48-1002-34ba-2b3e-938e4c7ff013@sackheads.org>
Message-ID: <d4118372-af18-9376-40c1-9b20711cc9fa@comcast.net>

If the motor is "humming" without starting, it is likely unable to 
overcome the existing pressure.? Bleeding down as Jimmie wrote will ease 
the load.? Do you have a long extension cord to the compressor?? This 
will increase the load considerably, and trip the breaker.

Mike

On 8/10/2021 7:32 AM, Jimmie Mayfield wrote:
> On 8/10/21 09:23, John T. Blair wrote:
>>
>> compressor went to cut on, but it didn't start.? I could hear a 
>> humming.? I
>> run over the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips 
>> the new
>> breaker. 
>
>
> Try the following:
>
> 1. Turn the compressor off
> 2. Bleed off the pressure in the tank down to, say, 30-40psi
> 3. Turn the compressor on.
>
> What happens?? Does it start?
>
> Sounds like your unloader valve might be going bad though since you 
> have a bonafide 5hp motor, I'm a little surprised it can't power 
> through it.? What size circuit do you have it on?? 30A?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation? $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net
>
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From maynerdfamily at msn.com  Tue Aug 10 09:26:57 2021
From: maynerdfamily at msn.com (Brian and Wendy Warrick)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:26:57 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <MW2PR07MB397890B7A1408AA96AFC2A6CBBF79@MW2PR07MB3978.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Take a look at the contacts in the pressure switch. They may be burnt or pitted and both legs of power are not making contact at the same time. I had this happen both on an air compressor and a well pump.

Brian
Nampa, ID

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 7:23 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos


Hey gang,

I have a Craftsman 5 hp 30 gal compressor that I purchased some time
around '90.  Here are the particulars:

Compressor:  Model 919.176951
                  MO-6436

Motor:        GE Model 5KCR48SR59W
Part #:       C-MO 3013
RPM:           3450
Volt:          230
Amp:         13.1A
Shaft size:   5/8" or 16mm

SCFM @ 40 PSI   11.3
              90 PSI     9.3
           125 PSI        8.0

Cut In  pressure - 100
Cut Out pressure - 125

The other day I was using my nail gun putting up molding around a window
in my family room.  All of a sudden the nail gun quit nailing.  After checking
the nail gun and not finding anything obviously wrong with it, I went down
into the shop to see if the compressor was on or if I had inadvertently
turned it off (old age, I forget what I just did).  Anyway, the switch on the
compressor was in the ON position, but there was only about 40 psi in the
tank.  I pulled the compressor's plug and stuck in the 220V recepticle, and
was getting a reading of 0V on both legs.  So I go to the circuit breaker
panel and reset the breaker, nothing.  So for some reason the breaker has
bit the dirt.  I pull the breaker and head off the hardware store for a new
breaker.  Put it in and the compressor fires back up, and I finish putting the
trim on the window.

Well the next day, I needed the compressor so I turned it on, and I was
working around the shop.  The compressor came up to pressure and shut
off.  After using the air to clean off the filter on my shop vac, the
compressor went to cut on, but it didn't start.  I could hear a humming.  I
run over the the compressor, but before I can turn it off, it trips the new
breaker.  I pull the saftey shield and try to turn the flywheel to see if the
compressor/motor has frozen.  It moved easily, so both compressor and
motor were OK.  I turn the compressor back on, and it fires up.  After a few
cycles, I hear the humming again.  Again, but the time I can get to it, it
has tripped the breaker.  So there is something wrong with the motor.

Anyone have any ideas?  I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on the
armature, or a bad start capacitor.  If it's the capacitor, why would it start
after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?

I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!  I
think that's a little steep.  So I guess I'll open it up and shot gun the start
capacitor.  Is there anything else I should l for while I'm in there?

I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it's apart.  I also don't
see any place
to oil the motor.  So I'm assuming that it has bearings that are lubricated for
live.  Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?

TIA

John







John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan<http://www.team.net/morgan>
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org<http://www.bricklin.org>

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue Aug 10 12:07:42 2021
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:07:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140219.06833220@cox.net>


Thanks to everyone that has replied with ideas and suggestions.
Unfrounately, I didn't post this problem until after I had pulled the motor.
So I think I'm going to try and open it up and see about getting a
replacement capactor, trying to find & clean the centrifgual switch and
cleaning up the motor.

I can't say now that I remember hearing the unloader valve firing.  So the
compressor trying to start agains a high head pressure is a possibility.  After
I replace the cap. I'll replace the motor and test it and pay attention to the
unloading of the pressure when the motor cuts off.  I know I've heard it in
the past, I just can't say for sure that it is doing that now. :(

Thanks again, I'll keep you all informed.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue Aug 10 12:18:57 2021
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:18:57 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>


Thanks again for all the replies to my original post about my compressor motor
not working.

With all this going on, I have been doing some thinking about having 
to buy a new
compressor if I can't get this motor running.  That said, this 
compressor appears
to come with a 3hp, 4hp, and 5hp motor.  I have the 5hp.  I know that when it
comes to getting a new compressor, bigger is better, to the extent of 
your budget.

1. What is the advantage of the different hp motors.  I know the big advantage
for the 5hp is it runs on 220V.  But how does the hp affect the compressor.
Based on the info in the manual, it appears that all 3 versions have the same
SCFM specs.

My current compressor is an oil lubricated one.

2. I see oil-less compressors that supposedly have fantastic specs 
for air supply
that are so much cheaper than oil lubed versions.  Any thoughts?

3.  Any body have an oil-less compressor?  How do you like it?  I was 
reading an
article that was talking about how the oil-less versions have come a 
long ways.
They were saying that the biggest advantage for the oil liubes was for high air
demand over a long time like in a commercial shop.  But my dad's compressor,
a 4hp 220V 20 gal unit and my 5hp 220V 30 gal rig were all oil 
lubed.  We got dad's
compressor back in the 60s and it was still running when he passed in 2015.  I
bought mine back about '90.  So I lean toward them.  But is that realistic?

John



John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Tue Aug 10 12:38:51 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 13:38:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
Message-ID: <2B2BF225-2DC8-41CC-9016-EE5B05446A4D@icloud.com>

Good questions. I think it all depends how much you are going to use it & how reliable it NEEDS to be. 

As to what hp rating, I suspect with the CFM & pressure being equal that the main difference is how much headroom the motor has. If the motor is running at or near capacity it won?t last as long. 

If you are using lots of air & your budget allows,  consider a 2 stage compressor. 

I had a small oil less compressor that I used on job sites it worked fine until one day it just started running longer, then pressure dropped. The piston seal died. I purchased an oil lubricated unit to replace it. 

If you are mainly using air tools & not painting, I?d go with oil. Most of my usage is air tools & media blasting. When we needed to paint a vehicle we just added an oil separator & filter. Worked fine. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 10, 2021, at 1:25 PM, John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

? 
Thanks again for all the replies to my original post about my compressor motor
not working.

With all this going on, I have been doing some thinking about having to buy a new  
compressor if I can't get this motor running.  That said, this compressor appears 
to come with a 3hp, 4hp, and 5hp motor.  I have the 5hp.  I know that when it
comes to getting a new compressor, bigger is better, to the extent of your budget.  

1. What is the advantage of the different hp motors.  I know the big advantage
for the 5hp is it runs on 220V.  But how does the hp affect the compressor.  
Based on the info in the manual, it appears that all 3 versions have the same 
SCFM specs.

My current compressor is an oil lubricated one.  

2. I see oil-less compressors that supposedly have fantastic specs for air supply
that are so much cheaper than oil lubed versions.  Any thoughts?

3.  Any body have an oil-less compressor?  How do you like it?  I was reading an
article that was talking about how the oil-less versions have come a long ways.  
They were saying that the biggest advantage for the oil liubes was for high air
demand over a long time like in a commercial shop.  But my dad's compressor,
a 4hp 220V 20 gal unit and my 5hp 220V 30 gal rig were all oil lubed.  We got dad's
compressor back in the 60s and it was still running when he passed in 2015.  I 
bought mine back about '90.  So I lean toward them.  But is that realistic?

John




 	
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com



John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
     e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
     In God We Trust
     Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Tue Aug 10 12:42:19 2021
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 11:42:19 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John,

The oil-less compressors probably are good enough for casual use, but the
ones that I have been around were noisy, probably because they tend to have
aluminum blocks and that they tend to spin at higher RPM than the larger,
heavier cast iron oil-type compressors.

The noise they make also seems more annoying to my ear, anyway. A larger,
slower spinning pump emits noise, of course, but it does not seem as harsh
as the noise from the oil-less compressor that I have heard.

One advantage of the oil-less compressors is that they will not inject oil
into the air supply if you are spraying paint.

FYIW

best,

doug

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 11:25 AM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

>
> Thanks again for all the replies to my original post about my compressor
> motor
> not working.
>
> With all this going on, I have been doing some thinking about having to
> buy a new
> compressor if I can't get this motor running.  That said, this compressor
> appears
> to come with a 3hp, 4hp, and 5hp motor.  I have the 5hp.  I know that when
> it
> comes to getting a new compressor, bigger is better, to the extent of your
> budget.
>
> 1. What is the advantage of the different hp motors.  I know the big
> advantage
> for the 5hp is it runs on 220V.  But how does the hp affect the
> compressor.
> Based on the info in the manual, it appears that all 3 versions have the
> same
> SCFM specs.
>
> My current compressor is an oil lubricated one.
>
> 2. I see oil-less compressors that supposedly have fantastic specs for air
> supply
> that are so much cheaper than oil lubed versions.  Any thoughts?
>
> 3.  Any body have an oil-less compressor?  How do you like it?  I was
> reading an
> article that was talking about how the oil-less versions have come a long
> ways.
> They were saying that the biggest advantage for the oil liubes was for
> high air
> demand over a long time like in a commercial shop.  But my dad's
> compressor,
> a 4hp 220V 20 gal unit and my 5hp 220V 30 gal rig were all oil lubed.  We
> got dad's
> compressor back in the 60s and it was still running when he passed in
> 2015.  I
> bought mine back about '90.  So I lean toward them.  But is that realistic?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> <#m_-911417382658544781_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
> Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>
> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>      In God We Trust
>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
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From marka at maracing.com  Tue Aug 10 12:59:42 2021
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:59:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
 <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy,

If I were buying a compressor today and the air requirements were modest, I
would be looking HARD at one of the super quiet compressor types that are
available now.

HF link just because it's easy, but there are also name brand versions of
this type of thing IIRC...

https://www.harborfreight.com/26-gallon-175-psi-ultra-quiet-vertical-shopauto-air-compressor-57336.html

Mark

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 2:42 PM old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> The oil-less compressors probably are good enough for casual use, but the
> ones that I have been around were noisy, probably because they tend to have
> aluminum blocks and that they tend to spin at higher RPM than the larger,
> heavier cast iron oil-type compressors.
>
> The noise they make also seems more annoying to my ear, anyway. A larger,
> slower spinning pump emits noise, of course, but it does not seem as harsh
> as the noise from the oil-less compressor that I have heard.
>
> One advantage of the oil-less compressors is that they will not inject oil
> into the air supply if you are spraying paint.
>
> FYIW
>
> best,
>
> doug
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 11:25 AM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks again for all the replies to my original post about my compressor
>> motor
>> not working.
>>
>> With all this going on, I have been doing some thinking about having to
>> buy a new
>> compressor if I can't get this motor running.  That said, this compressor
>> appears
>> to come with a 3hp, 4hp, and 5hp motor.  I have the 5hp.  I know that
>> when it
>> comes to getting a new compressor, bigger is better, to the extent of
>> your budget.
>>
>> 1. What is the advantage of the different hp motors.  I know the big
>> advantage
>> for the 5hp is it runs on 220V.  But how does the hp affect the
>> compressor.
>> Based on the info in the manual, it appears that all 3 versions have the
>> same
>> SCFM specs.
>>
>> My current compressor is an oil lubricated one.
>>
>> 2. I see oil-less compressors that supposedly have fantastic specs for
>> air supply
>> that are so much cheaper than oil lubed versions.  Any thoughts?
>>
>> 3.  Any body have an oil-less compressor?  How do you like it?  I was
>> reading an
>> article that was talking about how the oil-less versions have come a long
>> ways.
>> They were saying that the biggest advantage for the oil liubes was for
>> high air
>> demand over a long time like in a commercial shop.  But my dad's
>> compressor,
>> a 4hp 220V 20 gal unit and my 5hp 220V 30 gal rig were all oil lubed.  We
>> got dad's
>> compressor back in the 60s and it was still running when he passed in
>> 2015.  I
>> bought mine back about '90.  So I lean toward them.  But is that
>> realistic?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>> <#m_283659243399797963_m_-911417382658544781_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
>> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>>
>>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>>                        65 Rambler Classic
>>
>> Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
>> Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org
>>
>> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
>> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>>
>> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>>      In God We Trust
>>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com
>
>
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Tue Aug 10 13:36:17 2021
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:36:17 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor woos
In-Reply-To: <CAOtbU9Ux4fgVH5ok85-r_zGyZM6+dzNFUTG7dJgUh8aJn40XzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810090603.04b82da0@cox.net>
 <CAOtbU9Ux4fgVH5ok85-r_zGyZM6+dzNFUTG7dJgUh8aJn40XzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CN6DTBBFKP=d-AqnOSwEP51wS2SD3uedo=W7sS_pW1cKw@mail.gmail.com>

I like this one.  A squirt of WD-40 should loosen it up.  My table saw does
this occasionally, but it's only 66 years old

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:41 Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com> wrote:

> Isn't there a centrifugal switch that disconnects the start capacitor as
> soon as the motor starts spinning?
> Possibly that isn't working properly?
>
> Doug
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:25 AM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas?  I was thinking that it is either a bad spot on the
>> armature, or a bad start capacitor.  If it's the capacitor, why would it
>> start
>> after I moved the position of the motor a few degrees?
>>
>> I check with a local shop and they want $200 to put it on their bench!  I
>> think that's a little steep.  So I guess I'll open it up and shot gun the
>> start
>> capacitor.  Is there anything else I should l for while I'm in there?
>>
>> I do plan on cleaning all the parts while it's apart.  I also don't
>> see any place
>> to oil the motor.  So I'm assuming that it has bearings that are
>> lubricated for
>> live.  Or is there something I should do there, oil, grease?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Tue Aug 10 14:40:05 2021
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 16:40:05 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
 <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CN15Z3Y9SF-bkWB-vvXEWNp-LtdOKsphsfut2+OyP8xDA@mail.gmail.com>

We just bought a Kobalt version of that to sun some scanning equipment in
our new air filtration system.  Have only turned it on once so far, but
it's definitely not as loud as I thought it would be.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 15:05 Mark Andy <marka at maracing.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> If I were buying a compressor today and the air requirements were modest,
> I would be looking HARD at one of the super quiet compressor types that are
> available now.
>
> HF link just because it's easy, but there are also name brand versions of
> this type of thing IIRC...
>
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/26-gallon-175-psi-ultra-quiet-vertical-shopauto-air-compressor-57336.html
>
> Mark
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 2:42 PM old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> The oil-less compressors probably are good enough for casual use, but the
>> ones that I have been around were noisy, probably because they tend to have
>> aluminum blocks and that they tend to spin at higher RPM than the larger,
>> heavier cast iron oil-type compressors.
>>
>> The noise they make also seems more annoying to my ear, anyway. A larger,
>> slower spinning pump emits noise, of course, but it does not seem as harsh
>> as the noise from the oil-less compressor that I have heard.
>>
>> One advantage of the oil-less compressors is that they will not inject
>> oil into the air supply if you are spraying paint.
>>
>> FYIW
>>
>> best,
>>
>> doug
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 11:25 AM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all the replies to my original post about my compressor
>>> motor
>>> not working.
>>>
>>> With all this going on, I have been doing some thinking about having to
>>> buy a new
>>> compressor if I can't get this motor running.  That said, this
>>> compressor appears
>>> to come with a 3hp, 4hp, and 5hp motor.  I have the 5hp.  I know that
>>> when it
>>> comes to getting a new compressor, bigger is better, to the extent of
>>> your budget.
>>>
>>> 1. What is the advantage of the different hp motors.  I know the big
>>> advantage
>>> for the 5hp is it runs on 220V.  But how does the hp affect the
>>> compressor.
>>> Based on the info in the manual, it appears that all 3 versions have the
>>> same
>>> SCFM specs.
>>>
>>> My current compressor is an oil lubricated one.
>>>
>>> 2. I see oil-less compressors that supposedly have fantastic specs for
>>> air supply
>>> that are so much cheaper than oil lubed versions.  Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> 3.  Any body have an oil-less compressor?  How do you like it?  I was
>>> reading an
>>> article that was talking about how the oil-less versions have come a
>>> long ways.
>>> They were saying that the biggest advantage for the oil liubes was for
>>> high air
>>> demand over a long time like in a commercial shop.  But my dad's
>>> compressor,
>>> a 4hp 220V 20 gal unit and my 5hp 220V 30 gal rig were all oil lubed.
>>> We got dad's
>>> compressor back in the 60s and it was still running when he passed in
>>> 2015.  I
>>> bought mine back about '90.  So I lean toward them.  But is that
>>> realistic?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>
>>>
>>> <#m_-3996500071811484852_m_283659243399797963_m_-911417382658544781_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
>>> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
>>> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>>>
>>>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>>>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>>>                        65 Rambler Classic
>>>
>>> Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
>>> Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org
>>>
>>> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
>>> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>>>
>>> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>>>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>>>      In God We Trust
>>>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>>>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
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From rrochlin at comcast.net  Tue Aug 10 15:32:15 2021
From: rrochlin at comcast.net (Robert Rochlin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 17:32:15 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14471371-A190-4EE4-B21F-C8232360972E@comcast.net>

I?ve had the same Craftsman oil-less unit for about 25 years.  The only repair has been the regulator a couple years ago.  My biggest like is that the air is clean when I use it for painting, biggest drawback is the incredibly high noise level.  I?ve got a shut off valve right at the air output that does a great job of holding the line pressure.  I keep the compressor on all the time and when I go to use it it has full pressure so avoid start up pressurization racket.  
Best, 
Bob
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2021, at 3:05 PM, Mark Andy <marka at maracing.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Howdy,
> 
> If I were buying a compressor today and the air requirements were modest, I would be looking HARD at one of the super quiet compressor types that are available now.
> 
> HF link just because it's easy, but there are also name brand versions of this type of thing IIRC...
> 
> https://www.harborfreight.com/26-gallon-175-psi-ultra-quiet-vertical-shopauto-air-compressor-57336.html
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 2:42 PM old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> The oil-less compressors probably are good enough for casual use, but the ones that I have been around were noisy, probably because they tend to have aluminum blocks and that they tend to spin at higher RPM than the larger, heavier cast iron oil-type compressors.
>> 
>> The noise they make also seems more annoying to my ear, anyway. A larger, slower spinning pump emits noise, of course, but it does not seem as harsh as the noise from the oil-less compressor that I have heard.
>> 
>> One advantage of the oil-less compressors is that they will not inject oil into the air supply if you are spraying paint.
>> 
>> FYIW
>> 
>> best,
>> 
>> doug
>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 11:25 AM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks again for all the replies to my original post about my compressor motor
>>> not working.
>>> 
>>> With all this going on, I have been doing some thinking about having to buy a new  
>>> compressor if I can't get this motor running.  That said, this compressor appears 
>>> to come with a 3hp, 4hp, and 5hp motor.  I have the 5hp.  I know that when it
>>> comes to getting a new compressor, bigger is better, to the extent of your budget.  
>>> 
>>> 1. What is the advantage of the different hp motors.  I know the big advantage
>>> for the 5hp is it runs on 220V.  But how does the hp affect the compressor.  
>>> Based on the info in the manual, it appears that all 3 versions have the same 
>>> SCFM specs.
>>> 
>>> My current compressor is an oil lubricated one.  
>>> 
>>> 2. I see oil-less compressors that supposedly have fantastic specs for air supply
>>> that are so much cheaper than oil lubed versions.  Any thoughts?
>>> 
>>> 3.  Any body have an oil-less compressor?  How do you like it?  I was reading an
>>> article that was talking about how the oil-less versions have come a long ways.  
>>> They were saying that the biggest advantage for the oil liubes was for high air
>>> demand over a long time like in a commercial shop.  But my dad's compressor,
>>> a 4hp 220V 20 gal unit and my 5hp 220V 30 gal rig were all oil lubed.  We got dad's
>>> compressor back in the 60s and it was still running when he passed in 2015.  I 
>>> bought mine back about '90.  So I lean toward them.  But is that realistic?
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
>>> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>>> 
>>>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>>>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>>>                        65 Rambler Classic
>>> 
>>> Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
>>> Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org
>>> 
>>> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
>>> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>>> 
>>> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>>>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>>>      In God We Trust
>>>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for 
>>>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
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> 
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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue Aug 10 20:52:20 2021
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:52:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
 <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810152131.068322c0@cox.net>

At 02:59 PM 8/10/2021, Mark Andy wrote:

 >If I were buying a compressor today and the air requirements were modest, I
 >would be looking HARD at one of the super quiet compressor types that are
 >available now.

Again thanks to everyone.  Mark mentions the harbor freight compressor:

<https://www.harborfreight.com/26-gallon-175-psi-ultra-quiet-vertical-shopauto-air-compressor-57336.html>https://www.harborfreight.com/26-gallon-175-psi-ultra-quiet-vertical-shopauto-air-compressor-57336.html

Looking at it's basic specs, it is only rated at  4.5 SCFM @ 
90PSI.  My compressor
is rated at  9.3 SCFM @ 90 PSI.  I've have used my compressor for everything
from painting cars, sanding, impact hammers, die grinders, and both 
media blasting
cabinets & pressure blasting.  And I'm always running out of air and 
stopping to let
the compressor catch up.

So that brings up more questions:

1. What really controls how much a comperssor can generate, ie. SCFM?

2. What controls how long your compressor can supply air before 
having to start
the motor to refill the tank?  I realize that some air tools use a 
LOT more air, but
I'm speaking for any given tool, not compairing something like spray 
painting to
undoing 5 lugnuts on a car.

3. Why is a bigger tank better?  After the compressor's pressure 
switch kicks on,
doesn't it take longer for the compressor to reach the shut off 
pressure with a
larger tank?

4. How can a 1.7 hp compressor deliver a peek of 175 psi and a 
regulated 155 psi
when my 5 hp can only charge to 125 psi.  I realize part of that is due to the
pressure switch, mine is 110 on - 125 off, but really.  Can I put a 
pressure switch in mine and 175 psi.   I don't really think so.  Is 
this more advertising hype like
when they were rating compressors at their starting current vs 
running current for
hp?  They could get 7hp of of a 110V motor - NOT!

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 07:24:22 2021
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 06:24:22 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810152131.068322c0@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
 <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6.2.5.6.1.20210810152131.068322c0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgZmd9Q71PWnddLyetgfxs_OEZFU3O1mbFj98FTz-fCRKg@mail.gmail.com>

1. What really controls how much a comperssor can generate, ie. SCFM?

Mostly the amperage of the motor and the design of the pump. You can ignore
the HP ratings for the most part and just look at the current draw assuming
you are looking at the same voltage (e.g., 220VAC). Some pumps are more
efficient, but mostly the power of the motor will determine what size pump
and how fast you can spin it, which will determine the CFM.

2. What controls how long your compressor can supply air before having to
start
the motor to refill the tank?  I realize that some air tools use a LOT more
air, but
I'm speaking for any given tool, not compairing something like spray
painting to
undoing 5 lugnuts on a car.
Here it is just the storage capacity of the tank minus the continuous draw
of the tool. Larger tanks will require less frequent pump cycling with the
same amount of draw than would a smaller tank.

3. Why is a bigger tank better?  After the compressor's pressure switch
kicks on,
doesn't it take longer for the compressor to reach the shut off pressure
with a
larger tank?
See above, but the larger the tank, generally the longer the motor off
cycles against a similar load. Think of it like a battery in a cordless
drill. the larger the battery, the longer it will run before it needs to be
recharged. The same metaphor works for the pump and the tank.

4. How can a 1.7 hp compressor deliver a peek of 175 psi and a regulated
155 psi
when my 5 hp can only charge to 125 psi.  I realize part of that is due to
the
pressure switch, mine is 110 on - 125 off, but really.  Can I put a
pressure switch in mine and 175 psi.   I don't really think so.  Is this
more advertising hype like
when they were rating compressors at their starting current vs running
current for
hp?  They could get 7hp of of a 110V motor - NOT!

Most compressors with a 175 psi rating are dual stage, a primary and a
secondary piston or sets of piston. The first piston compresses the air to
125 psi and the second one to 175 psi. Most single stage pumps are limited
to 125 -135 psi. One advantage of a two-stage pump is that by compressing
the air to 175 psi, you increase the amount of compressed air stored in a
given size tank.  One achieves about 40% more stored compressed air in a
tank if the pump is capable of 175 psi vs. 125 psi. The single stage pumps
generally are lower cost than the dual stage pumps.

You should not try to increase your psi rating by changing the limit
switch, The psi rating is determined by the design of the pump.
Again, the best rating for the power of the motor is the continuous
amperage rating. The start-up amperage will be significantly higher. Ignore
the HP rating for the most part.

best ,
Doug

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 7:58 PM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

> At 02:59 PM 8/10/2021, Mark Andy wrote:
>
> >If I were buying a compressor today and the air requirements were modest,
> I
> >would be looking HARD at one of the super quiet compressor types that are
> >available now.
>
> Again thanks to everyone.  Mark mentions the harbor freight compressor:
>
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/26-gallon-175-psi-ultra-quiet-vertical-shopauto-air-compressor-57336.html
>
> Looking at it's basic specs, it is only rated at  4.5 SCFM @ 90PSI.  My
> compressor
> is rated at  9.3 SCFM @ 90 PSI.  I've have used my compressor for
> everything
> from painting cars, sanding, impact hammers, die grinders, and both media
> blasting
> cabinets & pressure blasting.  And I'm always running out of air and
> stopping to let
> the compressor catch up.
>
> So that brings up more questions:
>
> 1. What really controls how much a comperssor can generate, ie. SCFM?
>
> 2. What controls how long your compressor can supply air before having to
> start
> the motor to refill the tank?  I realize that some air tools use a LOT
> more air, but
> I'm speaking for any given tool, not compairing something like spray
> painting to
> undoing 5 lugnuts on a car.
>
> 3. Why is a bigger tank better?  After the compressor's pressure switch
> kicks on,
> doesn't it take longer for the compressor to reach the shut off pressure
> with a
> larger tank?
>
> 4. How can a 1.7 hp compressor deliver a peek of 175 psi and a regulated
> 155 psi
> when my 5 hp can only charge to 125 psi.  I realize part of that is due to
> the
> pressure switch, mine is 110 on - 125 off, but really.  Can I put a
> pressure switch in mine and 175 psi.   I don't really think so.  Is this
> more advertising hype like
> when they were rating compressors at their starting current vs running
> current for
> hp?  They could get 7hp of of a 110V motor - NOT!
>
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> <#m_8777314284171356316_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
> Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>
> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>      In God We Trust
>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
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From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 08:15:11 2021
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 09:15:11 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
 <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5suqQXH8Us+XUfFXSzBpDyGDLby7EE2ebXq6pqEEeQnGrdA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 1:43 PM old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> The oil-less compressors probably are good enough for casual use, but the
> ones that I have been around were noisy, probably because they tend to have
> aluminum blocks and that they tend to spin at higher RPM than the larger,
> heavier cast iron oil-type compressors.
>

There are two kinds of oil less compressor.  The really loud ones, and the
really quiet ones.  the really loud ones are cheap, which is their only
real redeeming feature (they have no oil in the air, which matters for some
applications, too.).  They have been around a long time, and basically,
they suck.  But they're cheap, so, they sell.

the quiet ones are not cheap, although prices have come down.  The best
known variety are sold by California Air Tools (they're made in china,
don't be fooled by the name.), but lots of people offer similar (or
identical) compressors these days.  For a given set of specs, they're much
of a muchness, and you'd do well to buy based on price, warranty, ease of
purchase, color, or whatever.
They reduce noise by having big pistons running at relatively low speed,
and by having lots of plastic and teflon parts.  They're not going to last
forever, probably a 1000 hours of pump operation.  I've got a little one,
with a 2 gallon tank, which I expect will last me years (it's used to air
up bike tires, dust off parts from time to time, and run a couple trim
nailers.).  On a job site, it'd be dead in a year, but it's likely to get
dropped, stolen, run over by a forklift, or otherwise killed first, so the
pump life span isn't a big a limitaion as it might seem.

If you're running shop tools using loads of air, like sand blasters, etc,
you want an old fashioned oil lubricated pump, rotating as low an RPM as
possible.  If you have lower volume air needs, the quiet compressors are
tempting.


>>
>>
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From arvidj999 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 09:37:51 2021
From: arvidj999 at gmail.com (Arvid)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 10:37:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <CA+k5suqQXH8Us+XUfFXSzBpDyGDLby7EE2ebXq6pqEEeQnGrdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
 <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+k5suqQXH8Us+XUfFXSzBpDyGDLby7EE2ebXq6pqEEeQnGrdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3a88a38b-2218-4c1b-d144-9eeacf1a7f57@gmail.com>

Agree with the "as low an RPM as possible". When I bought mine they offered a muffler\silencer for the intake. Google and YouTube offer a lot of suggestions for DIY silencers. I highly recommend anything on the intake along with the the standard filter.


On 8/11/21 9:15 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 1:43 PM old dirtbeard <dirtbeard at gmail.com <mailto:dirtbeard at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi John,
>
>     The oil-less compressors probably are good enough for casual use, but the ones that I have been around were noisy, probably because they tend to have aluminum blocks and that they tend to spin at higher RPM than the larger, heavier cast iron oil-type?compressors.
>
>
> There are two kinds of oil less compressor.? The really loud ones, and the really quiet ones.? the really loud ones are cheap, which is their only real redeeming feature (they have no oil in the air, which matters for some applications, too.).? They have been around a long time, and basically, they suck.? But they're cheap, so, they sell.
>
> the quiet ones are not cheap, although prices have come down.? The best known variety are sold by California Air Tools (they're made in china, don't be fooled by the name.), but lots of people offer similar (or identical) compressors these days.? For a given set of specs, they're much of a muchness, and you'd do well to buy based on price, warranty, ease of purchase, color, or whatever.
> They reduce noise by having big pistons running at relatively low speed, and by having lots of plastic and teflon parts.? They're not going to last forever, probably a 1000 hours of pump operation.? I've got a little one, with a 2 gallon tank, which I expect will last me years (it's used to air up bike tires, dust off parts from time to time, and run a couple trim nailers.).? On a job site, it'd be dead in a year, but it's likely to get dropped, stolen, run over by a forklift, or otherwise killed first, so the pump life span isn't a big a limitaion as it might seem.
>
> If you're running shop tools using loads of air, like sand blasters, etc, you want an old fashioned oil lubricated pump, rotating as low an RPM as possible.? If you have lower volume air needs, the quiet compressors are tempting.
>
>
>         	
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/arvidj999 at gmail.com
>
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From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 09:45:59 2021
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 10:45:59 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] More compressor questions
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810152131.068322c0@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210810140842.06832f90@cox.net>
 <CAG1pxgYGVXcuPBAnOt0gqc-6SWo_THZbqMf8P2b9hHOwO7LmGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAoSWGMexXZZX9E4O6i339_2V4Lbutwg8qDM+xoVJXfWH4+7tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6.2.5.6.1.20210810152131.068322c0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CA+k5suqoBFZxp9HJn77n6g0MepDfPorgYonjHbC0EzTdptTQzw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:58 PM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

>
> 1. What really controls how much a comperssor can generate, ie. SCFM?

Actual power available from the motor, more or less.  More power, more air.

>
> 2. What controls how long your compressor can supply air before having to start
> the motor to refill the tank?  I realize that some air tools use a LOT more air, but
> I'm speaking for any given tool, not compairing something like spray painting to
> undoing 5 lugnuts on a car.

Size of tank, the pressure of the stored air, and the settings on the
pressure switch.
Bigger tank means longer run time before the compressor kicks in,
higher pressure means longer run time before the compressor starts.
Pressure switch controls when it comes on, so there can be more or
less usuable air in the tank.  Most tools are limited to 90 psi, so as
long as the system pressure is above that, the compressor doesn't need
to run.  In industrial settings, where there can be strict
requirements about air pressure, the cut in pressure can be different.
I used to work in a shop with three compressors ganged together, and
they were set up with different cut in pressures.  First one would
come on, and if pressure kept falling, the second would start; more
pressure drop, the last one cut in.  They'd all run until 175 psi was
reached.

Siz>
> 3. Why is a bigger tank better?  After the compressor's pressure switch kicks on,
> doesn't it take longer for the compressor to reach the shut off pressure with a
> larger tank?

It holds more air which lets you have surge capacity that uses more
air than your compressor produces, at least for a little while.
It also gives the air longer to cool down, which lets water condense out of it.

>
> 4. How can a 1.7 hp compressor deliver a peek of 175 psi and a regulated 155 psi
> when my 5 hp can only charge to 125 psi.  I realize part of that is due to the
> pressure switch, mine is 110 on - 125 off, but really.  Can I put a pressure switch in mine and 175 psi.   I don't really think so.  Is this more advertising hype like
> when they were rating compressors at their starting current vs running current for
> hp?  They could get 7hp of of a 110V motor - NOT!
>

Pump design, and how its been chosen to be driven.  Higher pressure
means  more storage in a tank, and more pressure to overcome pressure
drop in lines.  the last shop I worked in, I was 75 pipe feet or more
away from the compressors, I had to set the regulator at my drop to
130psi to get a running psi of 90 or so on my impact gun.  The lift
closest to the compressor, I could turn it down to 95 or 100.  In
tuned industrial applications, pumps are often run at less than
maximum capacity, for less noise, less power use, and longer life.




-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Wed Aug 11 10:07:28 2021
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 12:07:28 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor resolution
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20210811115722.04cad9a8@cox.net>


Well gang, it really pays when you find a good company.  My son heard 
of a local
company that fixes motors, I'd never heard of them.  I tried the 
couple of places
that I've done business with in the past, the main one, didn't do AC 
motors any more as the fellow that did them retired.  The 2nd shop 
wanted $200 to put it on
their bench.  So I called the place my son had heard of.  They wanted 
$35 to put
it on the bench.  So this morning I head over there and arrive about 
10:30.  I tell
the lady at the counter what's going on with the motor, and she says, 
"lets check
the capacitors".  So standing at the counter, Charlie pulls the start 
cap, it's bad,
and he replaces it.  Then he pulls the run cap, it's also bad, and he 
replaces it.
Takes it over to a bench and fires it up, it runs not problem.  Then 
he writes out
my ticket.  I figuer about $35 to inspect, and at least $10 each for 
the caps, so
about $50.  He hand me the bill for less than $25!  I give him a $5 
tip and tell him
to go "get some lunch".  I'm out of there in less than 1/2 hr.  Man am I happy!
No I just have to go brave the 94deg. temp and put the motor back on the
compressor.

Again thanks to every one for their insight and support.  I really 
should have dug
into this at my house, but did like working in the 94 shop.  One of 
these days I'll
get an AC unit for there.  Not to mention for $25 it wasn't worth 
getting my hands
dirty.  I'll still have to get dirty & sweaty putting the motor back on the
compressor.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From dirtbeard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 10:16:09 2021
From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 09:16:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressor resolution
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20210811115722.04cad9a8@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20210811115722.04cad9a8@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAG1pxgZmibjGPe9LRV=T6C1zbr0rdreHu4SP=jvAuSSyC6ZE_g@mail.gmail.com>

That is a terrific outcome!

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 9:08 AM John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

>
> Well gang, it really pays when you find a good company.  My son heard of a
> local
> company that fixes motors, I'd never heard of them.  I tried the couple of
> places
> that I've done business with in the past, the main one, didn't do AC
> motors any more as the fellow that did them retired.  The 2nd shop wanted
> $200 to put it on
> their bench.  So I called the place my son had heard of.  They wanted $35
> to put
> it on the bench.  So this morning I head over there and arrive about
> 10:30.  I tell
> the lady at the counter what's going on with the motor, and she says,
> "lets check
> the capacitors".  So standing at the counter, Charlie pulls the start cap,
> it's bad,
> and he replaces it.  Then he pulls the run cap, it's also bad, and he
> replaces it.
> Takes it over to a bench and fires it up, it runs not problem.  Then he
> writes out
> my ticket.  I figuer about $35 to inspect, and at least $10 each for the
> caps, so
> about $50.  He hand me the bill for less than $25!  I give him a $5 tip
> and tell him
> to go "get some lunch".  I'm out of there in less than 1/2 hr.  Man am I
> happy!
> No I just have to go brave the 94deg. temp and put the motor back on the
> compressor.
>
> Again thanks to every one for their insight and support.  I really should
> have dug
> into this at my house, but did like working in the 94 shop.  One of these
> days I'll
> get an AC unit for there.  Not to mention for $25 it wasn't worth getting
> my hands
> dirty.  I'll still have to get dirty & sweaty putting the motor back on
> the
> compressor.
>
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> <#m_-7668917758623764675_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
> Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>
> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>      In God We Trust
>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com
>
>
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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu Aug 12 14:33:04 2021
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (jblair1948 at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:33:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Power lift hatches
Message-ID: <1985636491.11618.1628800384939@myemail.cox.net>

Hi Gang,

Got a different question this time, not compressors. My neighbor has a 2018 Ford Escape with the power lift hatch. A couple of weeks ago she went someplace and had the load something in the back of her car. She told them, "Don't close the hatch, I will close it from in here!" Well guess what, they tried to close the hatch. After that her hatch has had all kind of problems, not opening correctly/completely, not closing correctly, etc. She tried to pull the fuse to "reset" the controller for the power hatch.

I'm spent a lot of time doing internet searches for "how do they work", "troubleshooting power lift hatches", etc. to no avail.

I'm wondering if anyone know what type technology they use for all these power lift hatches?

I only way I can think of them working is with a linear actuactor. And I did find an excellent video on linear actuactors and controlling them. But a linear actuactor is basically a long screw and a nut. As the screw turns the nut moves either up or down.

If they are using a linear actuactor that can't be manually over riden. And I'd assume that it would bend
either the hinges on the hatch or the actual hatch itself. And I can't believe that a manufacturer would build something like that into a car. Every one is used to pulling down on a hatch or a trunk. So it seems to me that having someone helping you load your car with anything is likely to try and manually close your hatch/trunk.

So anyone know if these things are really linear actuactors or what they are? Untill my neighbor desides to replace hers, I don't have one to cut open and look inside. :)

TIA,

John
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Thu Aug 12 14:56:17 2021
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:56:17 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Power lift hatches
In-Reply-To: <1985636491.11618.1628800384939@myemail.cox.net>
References: <1985636491.11618.1628800384939@myemail.cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CNtf87k4ehv1iH3MMgVP5HQxZryPoqCQVk5=D=rzOBR-g@mail.gmail.com>

I've been thinking about this and looking at the struts on our Subaru.
Some important things:  you can move it independently of the motor
operation, but it will try to move by motor if you do that; it can be set
to a "preferred" height based on key used or seat settings, and.only one
strut has a wire.

I'm guessing it's an actuator that uses some sort of drive wheel on the
rod, and a stepper motor of some sort to drive it.

Possibly it has lost its zero point?  It might be educational to disconnect
the hatch end and operate it unloaded.  See if it stutters then, and verify
the hinges themselves don't have a problem.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 16:35 <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

> Hi Gang,
>
> Got a different question this time, not compressors. My neighbor has a
> 2018 Ford Escape with the power lift hatch. A couple of weeks ago she went
> someplace and had the load something in the back of her car. She told them,
> "Don't close the hatch, I will close it from in here!" Well guess what,
> they tried to close the hatch. After that her hatch has had all kind of
> problems, not opening correctly/completely, not closing correctly, etc. She
> tried to pull the fuse to "reset" the controller for the power hatch.
>
> I'm spent a lot of time doing internet searches for "how do they work",
> "troubleshooting power lift hatches", etc. to no avail.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone know what type technology they use for all these
> power lift hatches?
>
> I only way I can think of them working is with a linear actuactor. And I
> did find an excellent video on linear actuactors and controlling them. But
> a linear actuactor is basically a long screw and a nut. As the screw turns
> the nut moves either up or down.
>
> If they are using a linear actuactor that can't be manually over riden.
> And I'd assume that it would bend
> either the hinges on the hatch or the actual hatch itself. And I can't
> believe that a manufacturer would build something like that into a car.
> Every one is used to pulling down on a hatch or a trunk. So it seems to me
> that having someone helping you load your car with anything is likely to
> try and manually close your hatch/trunk.
>
> So anyone know if these things are really linear actuactors or what they
> are? Untill my neighbor desides to replace hers, I don't have one to cut
> open and look inside. :)
>
> TIA,
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
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From ejrussell61 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 12 15:03:25 2021
From: ejrussell61 at gmail.com (Eric Russell)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:03:25 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Power lift hatches
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CNtf87k4ehv1iH3MMgVP5HQxZryPoqCQVk5=D=rzOBR-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1985636491.11618.1628800384939@myemail.cox.net>
 <CAO8Q7CNtf87k4ehv1iH3MMgVP5HQxZryPoqCQVk5=D=rzOBR-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7dBXCZ9+XTy8q6ObPA00xW0k=7xzX-fHjwJtdv3Y1aynY8LQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://youtu.be/znnJrlpku-U


On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 4:57 PM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been thinking about this and looking at the struts on our Subaru.
> Some important things:  you can move it independently of the motor
> operation, but it will try to move by motor if you do that; it can be set
> to a "preferred" height based on key used or seat settings, and.only one
> strut has a wire.
>
> I'm guessing it's an actuator that uses some sort of drive wheel on the
> rod, and a stepper motor of some sort to drive it.
>
> Possibly it has lost its zero point?  It might be educational to
> disconnect the hatch end and operate it unloaded.  See if it stutters then,
> and verify the hinges themselves don't have a problem.
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 16:35 <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gang,
>>
>> Got a different question this time, not compressors. My neighbor has a
>> 2018 Ford Escape with the power lift hatch. A couple of weeks ago she went
>> someplace and had the load something in the back of her car. She told them,
>> "Don't close the hatch, I will close it from in here!" Well guess what,
>> they tried to close the hatch. After that her hatch has had all kind of
>> problems, not opening correctly/completely, not closing correctly, etc. She
>> tried to pull the fuse to "reset" the controller for the power hatch.
>>
>> I'm spent a lot of time doing internet searches for "how do they work",
>> "troubleshooting power lift hatches", etc. to no avail.
>>
>> I'm wondering if anyone know what type technology they use for all these
>> power lift hatches?
>>
>> I only way I can think of them working is with a linear actuactor. And I
>> did find an excellent video on linear actuactors and controlling them. But
>> a linear actuactor is basically a long screw and a nut. As the screw turns
>> the nut moves either up or down.
>>
>> If they are using a linear actuactor that can't be manually over riden.
>> And I'd assume that it would bend
>> either the hinges on the hatch or the actual hatch itself. And I can't
>> believe that a manufacturer would build something like that into a car.
>> Every one is used to pulling down on a hatch or a trunk. So it seems to me
>> that having someone helping you load your car with anything is likely to
>> try and manually close your hatch/trunk.
>>
>> So anyone know if these things are really linear actuactors or what they
>> are? Untill my neighbor desides to replace hers, I don't have one to cut
>> open and look inside. :)
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ejrussell61 at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
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From jniolon at att.net  Thu Aug 12 15:33:14 2021
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:33:14 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <DAF7EF6E-B688-41A8-BD56-75966C991826@icloud.com>
References: <1UZ4czii2p.CEVo1rpNaml@johns-desktop>
 <DAF7EF6E-B688-41A8-BD56-75966C991826@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1UZ4gHZwoN.17NujlMnNJR@johns-desktop>

well, that's three days or so I'll never see again... started over on the 
diagnosis... A fellow ford guy in Canada mentioned something about the 
alternator exciter wire being used when alternator was larger than 80 amps. I 
didn't use one... I called EZ-wire tech guy and we discussed it. He assured me that with a one wire unit the exciter wire wasn't 
used (it gets itself excited ) As we talked he asked what my battery voltage 
was when the alternator was above 1500 rpm and I told him in the 13 volt range. 
Then he asked what my alternator voltage was and it was 14.6 or so... He said 
just to check it and bypass all the wiring to run a wire straight from the 
alternator to the battery +... I asked him if it cured the problem should I 
just leave it in place... he said sure , that way you are getting charging 
voltage straight from alternator

So I built a #4 cable and installed it from alternator to battery +... guess 
what ??? 14.6 at alternator and 14.6 at the battery... All this high tech 
diagnosis... was just an exercise... At least I know that all my connections 
and terminals and electrical stuff is good and well grounded and blessed ., I 
think 
I'm gonna call him back tomorrow and get him to explain EX-wires reason for not having that direct charge wire in the first place. Thanks  for sticking with me trying to figure this out and for all the information, ideas, suggestion, CWAGs and un mentioned comments about how I can be so dumb and yet so good looking at the same time...

john




John, here?s a little electrical theory for you, hope it helps. 


Resistance measurements on a vehicle are not generally useful for circuits that handle higher currents but works better for circuits that deal with signals. It is useful just as a open/short diagnosis. Here?s an example. A wire carrying 40A current with 1V drop will have a resistance of .025 ohm, much too low to be a real indication. Voltage, either to ground (the same ground point for all measurements) or voltage drop across a wire is the best way to find bad connections or undersized wires, your readings will not be near the end of the range or the meter. That?s why I recommended the series of voltage readings all along the wire from the alternator to the battery. 


This approach also works well for grounds. When working with grounds it is best to use a single ground reference point or do voltage drops across each ground wire. 

Peace,
Pat


Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity



On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:10 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:


? Pat, while the battery was out I checked resistance on all battery, starter and ground cables... all read from .003 to .004 ohm resistance end to end 
 also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 1200 rpm  14.6 volts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickered down to 14.3 - 14.4 to  then
back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200

did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator terminals

j

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com>
To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck


John, 
Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, terminal on other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you can get to the conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be enough to find the problem. 


Peace,
Pat



Pat Horne  
We support Habitat for Humanity



On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:


? 
sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!

Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' 
of 1/0 cable....that 
don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  battery is good based on her years of
battery experience



----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck



jeff?.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA  regular Walmart battery

When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  when it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and I remember the a/c fan still blowing


Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed from battery to alternator is #4 wire


Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this year and clean, no corrosion on connections

John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  I'll 
go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of 
it's own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is 
grounded through 
it's mount.

Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' 
piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is 
connected to the solenoid.

Jimmie..    
What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'    hmmm ?? don't 
remember checking that, ?  
I'll do that
 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing

ya'll 
have given me lots to check and recheck and some I 
haven't thought of...   going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a 500 amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.  Battery is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large pain.

points I'm 
considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to 
frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...   
the saga continues

thanks for all the replies and points to check..   you guys are the best

john

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From patintexas at icloud.com  Thu Aug 12 15:39:17 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 16:39:17 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4gHZwoN.17NujlMnNJR@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4gHZwoN.17NujlMnNJR@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <2A52890A-8D48-428A-BCDF-E88554FA3FEF@icloud.com>

Glad you found it!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 12, 2021, at 4:34 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
well, that's three days or so I'll never see again... started over on the diagnosis... A fellow ford guy in Canada mentioned something about the alternator exciter wire being used when alternator was larger than 80 amps. I didn't use one... I called EZ-wire tech guy and we discussed it. He assured me that with a one wire unit the exciter wire wasn't used (it gets itself excited ) As we talked he asked what my battery voltage was when the alternator was above 1500 rpm and I told him in the 13 volt range. Then he asked what my alternator voltage was and it was 14.6 or so... He said just to check it and bypass all the wiring to run a wire straight from the alternator to the battery +... I asked him if it cured the problem should I just leave it in place... he said sure , that way you are getting charging voltage straight from alternator

So I built a #4 cable and installed it from alternator to battery +... guess what ??? 14.6 at alternator and 14.6 at the battery... All this high tech diagnosis... was just an exercise... At least I know that all my connections and terminals and electrical stuff is good and well grounded and blessed ., I think I'm gonna call him back tomorrow and get him to explain EX-wires reason for not having that direct charge wire in the first place. Thanks  for sticking with me trying to figure this out and for all the information, ideas, suggestion, CWAGs and un mentioned comments about how I can be so dumb and yet so good looking at the same time...

john
 
 
John, here?s a little electrical theory for you, hope it helps. 

Resistance measurements on a vehicle are not generally useful for circuits that handle higher currents but works better for circuits that deal with signals. It is useful just as a open/short diagnosis. Here?s an example. A wire carrying 40A current with 1V drop will have a resistance of .025 ohm, much too low to be a real indication. Voltage, either to ground (the same ground point for all measurements) or voltage drop across a wire is the best way to find bad connections or undersized wires, your readings will not be near the end of the range or the meter. That?s why I recommended the series of voltage readings all along the wire from the alternator to the battery. 

This approach also works well for grounds. When working with grounds it is best to use a single ground reference point or do voltage drops across each ground wire. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:10 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

? Pat, while the battery was out I checked resistance on all battery, starter and ground cables... all read from .003 to .004 ohm resistance end to end
 also rechecked the charging voltage again with engine at 1200 rpm  14.6 volts... as I increased the rpm the voltage flickered down to 14.3 - 14.4 to  then
back up to 14.6 as rpm decreased back to 1200
 
did this both with VOM leads on battery terminals AND alternator terminals
 
j
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com>
To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/9/2021 1:30:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
John,
Check charging voltage @ alternator post, alternator terminal, terminal on other end of 1/0 cable, post that terminal connects to. If you can get to the conductor in the 1/0 cable, get that too. That should be enough to find the problem. 

Peace,
Pat


Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 9, 2021, at 1:02 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
sorry for slow response... helping daughter and sil move...priorities!!!
 
Monday a.m. report

fresh charge on battery 40 amp for 30 minutes on saturday trickle charger since then .. battery voltage 13.4 this a.m. checked with two different meters


hooked up H.F. 500 amp load tester, voltage reading same as VOM at 13.4
voltage at frame rail terminal also 13.4

battery has 800 CCA capacity
started test... over 15 second test the battery slowly dropped to 320 amps and voltage read 10.8 (still in the green scale)
stopped test at 15 seconds and two minutes later battery was back up to 12.7





next step will be check alternator output at battery and terminal point

ok... started truck... engine at 1200 rpm
meter on alternator o/p- voltage is 14.6
meter on battery voltage is 13.5

hmmm...1.1 volt drop in 4' of 1/0 cable....that don't sound right
need to measure resistance of cable I guess...

as an aside... checked voltaged between frame ground and the case of the alternator... 0.0001 volts

I also took battery back to Wal mart and Quintella checked it...  battery is good based on her years of
battery experience
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 8/6/2021 8:58:12 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
jeff?.     regular led acid battery ??     Everstart Maxx27 800 CCA  regular Walmart battery
 
When it died, did any of the electrical items still work?  Lights, etc.?  when it first occurred ,, when I tried to restart, .. starter just clicked and I remember the a/c fan still blowing
 
 
Donald...  How large is the cable from the alternator to the battery?   feed from battery to alternator is #4 wire
 
Dave... I was thinking a dirty battery clamp.    battery clamps are new this year and clean, no corrosion on connections
 
John...   How is the volt meter in your truck grounded, to the frame or to the motor?    voltmeter in dash is grounded to dash frame  voltmeter used to check under hood is grounded to frame not engine.  I'll go back and check ground connections. Alternator has a ground terminal of it's own... it's #10 wire grounded to the frame and of course the alternator is grounded through it's mount.
 
Pat...  what is the relationship between the frame terminal & the rest of the electrical system?  Terminal on the frame rail is fed by a 4' piece of  #4 wire from the i/p solenoid lug where the cable from the battery is connected to the solenoid.
 
Jimmie..    What's the voltage at the terminal with those accessories 'on' but the engine 'off'    hmmm ?? don't remember checking that, ?  I'll do that
 How big is the alternator?    100 amp single wire from CVF racing
 
ya'll have given me lots to check and recheck and some I haven't thought of...   going back through my diagnostics and check connections too.  I bought a 500 amp load tester yesterday and will put sufficient load on the battery.  Battery is under the cab and I have to lower it to check it out and with the low truck, I have to raise truck on jackstands.. silly me, I thought battery would be a low maintenance item ...duh.   so checking at a shop somewhere is a very large pain.
 
points I'm considering.... larger ground wires from frame to engine.... alternator to frame and check resistance from solenoid lug to the terminal on the frame...   the saga continues
 
thanks for all the replies and points to check..   you guys are the best
 
john
 
_______________________________________________

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From JIBrooks at live.com  Thu Aug 12 15:56:50 2021
From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 21:56:50 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <1UZ4gHZwoN.17NujlMnNJR@johns-desktop>
References: <1UZ4czii2p.CEVo1rpNaml@johns-desktop>
 <DAF7EF6E-B688-41A8-BD56-75966C991826@icloud.com>
 <1UZ4gHZwoN.17NujlMnNJR@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <CO1PR06MB7994554E3F77BF2B3190C7F3A8F99@CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Glad to hear it is finally charged and that the solution was simple!


Major sidetrack follows??.

This reminds me of my change over from a generator to an alternator in my 1960 Triumph TR3.  I installed a 30A non-regulated alternator from a Honda Civic. The old generator peaked at 17A, so it was a nice upgrade.  I had the alternator checked out by an old fashioned alternator shop.  It worked perfectly.  He sold me an electronic regulator, that was small enough that it could hide under the housing for the old Mechanical OEM regulator, but also activate my charge light (the one that stays lit until the generator/alternator is charging) which made it a perfect fit.

I wired everything up carefully, but after starting it, the alternator light would not go out, hence no charging, so I brought the alternator back to have it checked out again. The alternator was good.

I wired, tested and rewired this system 3 or 4 times. Finally in exasperation, I punched the throttle and as the revs climbed, the charge lamp extinguished.  I repeated this procedure and it consistently would not start charging until the revs reached about 2,600 rpm.

What I figured out from talking to a lot of people was that Hondas spin backwards, opposite from every other modern engine manufacturer.  Apparently the alternator can take a magnetic set.  In this case, this magnetic field was reversed and needed to be overcome before the alternator could start charging.  About 8 years later, it now starts charging at about 2,200 rpm, so slowly but surely the magnetic memory in the alternator is being reversed.

As was John?s exercise, it was a very frustrating path to resolving what should have been a simple installation. It does work great now though.  It?ll run the headlights and windshield wipers easily at idle which the old generator struggled with and has me thinking about seat heaters for those cold winter days with the top down??.

Jack
p.s. ? I used a Civic alternator for a few reasons,
1.      it was only 30A, so I had very few wires to change out,
2.      the alternator shaft was the same size as the generator shaft on the TR3, stunning right?  and
3,      it was free!


From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of john niolon
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2021 2:33 PM
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck

well, that's three days or so I'll never see again... started over on the diagnosis... A fellow ford guy in Canada mentioned something about the alternator exciter wire being used when alternator was larger than 80 amps. I didn't use one... I called EZ-wire tech guy and we discussed it. He assured me that with a one wire unit the exciter wire wasn't used (it gets itself excited [https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/images/smilies2/biglaugh.gif] ) As we talked he asked what my battery voltage was when the alternator was above 1500 rpm and I told him in the 13 volt range. Then he asked what my alternator voltage was and it was 14.6 or so... He said just to check it and bypass all the wiring to run a wire straight from the alternator to the battery +... I asked him if it cured the problem should I just leave it in place... he said sure , that way you are getting charging voltage straight from alternator

So I built a #4 cable and installed it from alternator to battery +... guess what ??? 14.6 at alternator and 14.6 at the battery... All this high tech diagnosis... was just an exercise... At least I know that all my connections and terminals and electrical stuff is good and well grounded and blessed ., I think I'm gonna call him back tomorrow and get him to explain EX-wires reason for not having that direct charge wire in the first place. Thanks  for sticking with me trying to figure this out and for all the information, ideas, suggestion, CWAGs and un mentioned comments about how I can be so dumb and yet so good looking at the same time...

john


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From dave1massey at cs.com  Fri Aug 13 07:03:22 2021
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 13:03:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical problem with truck
In-Reply-To: <CO1PR06MB7994554E3F77BF2B3190C7F3A8F99@CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1UZ4czii2p.CEVo1rpNaml@johns-desktop>
 <DAF7EF6E-B688-41A8-BD56-75966C991826@icloud.com>
 <1UZ4gHZwoN.17NujlMnNJR@johns-desktop>
 <CO1PR06MB7994554E3F77BF2B3190C7F3A8F99@CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1440240642.129080.1628859802109@mail.yahoo.com>

Alternators, and generators, have what is called residual magnetism.? The steel laminates in the field (the rotor in the case of an alternator) will become magnetized.? As the rotor spins the rotating magnets will generate current in the stator coils.? This is important since power for the exciter field comes from the alternator output.? Basically it lifts itself up by the bootstraps.?
The amount of residual magnetic field? strength is small so it takes more speed to achieve enough voltage to start exciting the field will take more speed than that required during normal operation.? My TR6 alternator has a charge indicator light connected between the exciter power and the battery.? ?This provides a small amount of current to the exciter to help get things going more quickly.? The TR6 alternator will reliably start charging at or below 1,000 RPM with the light installed but if I reomove the light it sometimes needs 1,800 RPM.??
BTW, alternators are not direction sensitive since the rectification is accomplished wit semiconductor diodes.
It appears your new regulator is of a newer generation that actvates the IGN light directly.?
Oh, and three very good reasons for selecting that alternator.?

Dave 
 
  On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 17:02, Jack Brooks<JIBrooks at live.com> wrote:   _______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 12:05:20 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:05:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
Message-ID: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>

I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:

Low Pressure Regulator
Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)

We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:

Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
Max Working Pressure:     150psi
Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)

Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.

Thanks,
Jim


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From patintexas at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 12:38:27 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:38:27 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CC39E60E-18E3-4C31-92F8-2D505CE8611C@icloud.com>

Looks like it should work without the regulator. What size pipe did the do the new pipe in? What size line did you run between the pipe & generator? Just because the the pressures match, flow rate also has to be sufficient. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:

?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:

Low Pressure Regulator
Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)

We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:

Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
Max Working Pressure:     150psi
Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)

Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.

Thanks,
Jim


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 12:39:05 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:39:05 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20F11C5F-900C-49B9-B4F8-6F7699DBCBAE@icloud.com>

Oh, & good luck with the storm. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:

?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:

Low Pressure Regulator
Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)

We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:

Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
Max Working Pressure:     150psi
Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)

Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.

Thanks,
Jim


_______________________________________________

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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 12:59:02 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:59:02 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <20F11C5F-900C-49B9-B4F8-6F7699DBCBAE@icloud.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
 <20F11C5F-900C-49B9-B4F8-6F7699DBCBAE@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <971D07AB-A399-4E00-A7FB-E1F60F711CC3@gmail.com>

Thanks, Pat.  We?re only about 250 yards from a bay, but about 12 feed above sea level, so the only real concern is the wind and trees.  At the peak, the water from Sandy flooded the expensive real estate right on the water and one house in, but it would have taken an apocalypse for the water to get up the street to us.

As for the gas line, both the original and my replacement are 5/16 LP hose.  The only difference between the two, other than the regulator, is that the original line is 5 ft long and the unregulated line is 10 ft.

Jim

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 2:39 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Oh, & good luck with the storm. 
> 
> Peace,
> Pat
> 
> Pat Horne 
> We support Habitat for Humanity
> 
> 
> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
> 
> Low Pressure Regulator
> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
> 
> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
> 
> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
> 
> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
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> 

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From tjcora at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 13:04:13 2021
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:04:13 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D42B04E1-BD1C-4A51-A315-208D0445EB36@icloud.com>

Jim: You should be good to go. Time?s a wastin?!

Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 2:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
> 
> Low Pressure Regulator
> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
> 
> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
> 
> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
> 
> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 
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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 13:19:00 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:19:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <D42B04E1-BD1C-4A51-A315-208D0445EB36@icloud.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
 <D42B04E1-BD1C-4A51-A315-208D0445EB36@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <670A53E0-C784-47B0-9A56-B4A5CA883728@gmail.com>

Thanks.  The generator is currently sitting in a screened-in porch and, as long as it is reasonably dry in there during the storm, I wiI run it there off of the tanks at first and connect it to the house supply once the rain stops.  I think our hatches are sufficiently battened down.  It is helpful that this will hit during daylight hours.  And, some really tall, unhealthy trees have already been removed from our house and the two adjacent properties, which is certainly good.  

I assume I will know a heck of a lot more in 24 hours or so!

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:04 PM, Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Jim: You should be good to go. Time?s a wastin?!
> 
> Tom Coradeschi
> tjcora at icloud.com
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 2:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>> 
>> Low Pressure Regulator
>> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>> 
>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>> 
>> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>> 
>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>> 

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From pethier7 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 13:19:05 2021
From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Phil Ethier)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:19:05 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>

No. LP gas and household natural gas are different. You need to rejet products to change over. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
> 
> Low Pressure Regulator
> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
> 
> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
> 
> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
> 
> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
> 
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From tjcora at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 13:22:07 2021
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:22:07 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <670A53E0-C784-47B0-9A56-B4A5CA883728@gmail.com>
References: <670A53E0-C784-47B0-9A56-B4A5CA883728@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3BF725A2-9317-4966-9D23-203C0C7580C0@icloud.com>

Probably preaching to the choir, but make sure any windows to that porch are closed!

Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:20 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Thanks.  The generator is currently sitting in a screened-in porch and, as long as it is reasonably dry in there during the storm, I wiI run it there off of the tanks at first and connect it to the house supply once the rain stops.  I think our hatches are sufficiently battened down.  It is helpful that this will hit during daylight hours.  And, some really tall, unhealthy trees have already been removed from our house and the two adjacent properties, which is certainly good.  
> 
> I assume I will know a heck of a lot more in 24 hours or so!
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:04 PM, Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jim: You should be good to go. Time?s a wastin?!
>> 
>> Tom Coradeschi
>> tjcora at icloud.com
>> 
>>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 2:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>>> 
>>> Low Pressure Regulator
>>> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>>> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>>> 
>>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>> 
>>> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>>> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>>> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>>> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>>> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>>> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>>> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>> 
>>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>>> 
> 
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From tjcora at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 13:22:47 2021
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:22:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
References: <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <725FDE02-1223-4EDD-9D82-383176EB6615@icloud.com>

Phil - he has an LP generator and a 500 gallon LP tank. All good. 

Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:21 PM, Phil Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?No. LP gas and household natural gas are different. You need to rejet products to change over. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>> 
>> Low Pressure Regulator
>> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>> 
>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>> 
>> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>> 
>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 
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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 13:32:46 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:32:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <725FDE02-1223-4EDD-9D82-383176EB6615@icloud.com>
References: <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
 <725FDE02-1223-4EDD-9D82-383176EB6615@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <257CD4D5-09D0-4874-A919-BA66BC8C05B4@gmail.com>

On the other hand, my daughter just sent me the following screenshot.  Note the red circled ?us?.  The project path line is about 1.25 miles away.  ?



> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Phil - he has an LP generator and a 500 gallon LP tank. All good. 
> 
> Tom Coradeschi
> tjcora at icloud.com
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:21 PM, Phil Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?No. LP gas and household natural gas are different. You need to rejet products to change over. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>>> 
>>> Low Pressure Regulator
>>> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>>> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>>> 
>>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>> 
>>> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>>> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>>> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>>> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>>> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>>> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>>> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>> 
>>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>> 

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From tjcora at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 13:34:35 2021
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:34:35 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <257CD4D5-09D0-4874-A919-BA66BC8C05B4@gmail.com>
References: <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
 <725FDE02-1223-4EDD-9D82-383176EB6615@icloud.com>
 <257CD4D5-09D0-4874-A919-BA66BC8C05B4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DB5EB79-3CBB-4360-8DF0-5DED0B4D65BB@icloud.com>

Yikes. My 90 year old FIL lives in Sea Cliff, so got that worry bead is busy being polished.

?
Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com


> On 21 Aug 2021, at 3:32 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On the other hand, my daughter just sent me the following screenshot.  Note the red circled ?us?.  The project path line is about 1.25 miles away.  ?
> 
> <PastedGraphic-7.tiff>
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Phil - he has an LP generator and a 500 gallon LP tank. All good. 
>> 
>> Tom Coradeschi
>> tjcora at icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:21 PM, Phil Ethier <pethier7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?No. LP gas and household natural gas are different. You need to rejet products to change over. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>>>> 
>>>> 	? Low Pressure Regulator
>>>> 	? Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>>>> 	? Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>>> 	? Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>>>> 
>>>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>>> 
>>>> 	? Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>>>> 	? Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>>>> 	? Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>>>> 	? Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>>>> 	? Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>>>> 	? Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>>>> 	? Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>>> 
>>>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>> 
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>>> 
> 


From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 13:41:51 2021
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:41:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91980A1F-9264-4FC5-B598-54E1D8E2A285@gmail.com>


You need a low pressure regulator. Input is 10 to 15ish inches of water.  Output is 10 inches water. 
Steal the one from your furnace, if you need to. 


> On Aug 21, 2021, at 13:08, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
> 
> Low Pressure Regulator
> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
> 
> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
> 
> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
> 
> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com
> 
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 13:46:51 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:46:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA8D8EAD-8D8D-4C39-B0DC-4B5B07555D3F@icloud.com>

Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:

?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:

Low Pressure Regulator
Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)

We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:

Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
Max Working Pressure:     150psi
Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)

Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.

Thanks,
Jim


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 14:28:30 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 16:28:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <BA8D8EAD-8D8D-4C39-B0DC-4B5B07555D3F@icloud.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
 <BA8D8EAD-8D8D-4C39-B0DC-4B5B07555D3F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CCC902F5-D748-40ED-93DB-816E2254AD6B@gmail.com>

From David:

> You need a low pressure regulator. Input is 10 to 15ish inches of water.  Output is 10 inches water. 
Steal the one from your furnace, if you need to.

There is a regulator between the tank and the house, so it comes in before the line to the outside.  It is hard to read the regulator, as it is under the porch, which is why I gave the stats for the water heater. 

From Pat:

> Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?


Not silly, but it isn?t a permanent whole house generator.  I?ve thought about installing one, and certainly will if weather patterns change enough that we are dealing with this more often, but the price didn?t seem justified given the amount of use that it would get.  As I said, I have had this one for about 8 years and never had to use it.  My main worry has always been an extended outage in the winter, but we don?t need much amperage with propane heat for the furnaces. (Separate heat in the shop.  Hey!  Shop content!).  I haven?t done the exact math, but believe that 4000 Surge Watts/3250 Running Watts will be enough to keep things going here for as long as it takes?as long as I can run off of the in-ground tank.

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?
> 
> Peace,
> Pat
> 
> Pat Horne 
> We support Habitat for Humanity
> 
> 
> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
> 
> Low Pressure Regulator
> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
> 
> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
> 
> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
> 
> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
> 

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From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Sat Aug 21 14:43:32 2021
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 13:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6780.1629572342.5555.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.6780.1629572342.5555.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <f0d5586c-7ec5-634b-939b-4d0ff0cd6b6e@threeboysfarm.com>

Putting two regulators in series (like when you hooked your regulator to 
the already regulated house supply) does not work well: regulators need 
a bit more pressure on its input to overcome its internal drops. So it 
was fine for the first one but the second one was starved and restricted 
the flow.? Hooking the generator directly to your existing piping should 
be just fine (that's how I ran mine when we lost power out here due to 
wildfires the past couple of years).? Good luck with your upcoming 
weather.? And if you want to be fancy with hooking it up I recommend an 
interlock to attach (safely!) to your house panel.? I used: 
https://www.geninterlock.com/ and have put a few of them in for others.? 
Inexpensive, easy to use and install, safe.

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com


> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:05:20 -0400
> From: Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com>
> To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net>
> Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
> Message-ID: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>
> Low Pressure Regulator
> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>
> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>
> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>
> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
>

From tjcora at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 15:15:23 2021
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 17:15:23 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <CCC902F5-D748-40ED-93DB-816E2254AD6B@gmail.com>
References: <CCC902F5-D748-40ED-93DB-816E2254AD6B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6BDCC293-14C1-488A-AFFA-937C9DA14B28@icloud.com>

You?ll be good with what you have. I have a 3 kW Honda on a 10 circuit transfer switch, feeding a 2600 ft2 house. We can?t run the the big power hogs - A/C or electric oven - but other than that, we are good. We run some lighting, internet/computer/TV, NG powered  heat, HW, cooktop, dryer and grill, etc. Its an inverter based system and it rarely runs much above idle unless heat, both fridges, freezer and coffee maker are all calling for power at the same time.

Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 4:29 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?From David:
> 
>> You need a low pressure regulator. Input is 10 to 15ish inches of water.  Output is 10 inches water. 
> Steal the one from your furnace, if you need to.
> 
> There is a regulator between the tank and the house, so it comes in before the line to the outside.  It is hard to read the regulator, as it is under the porch, which is why I gave the stats for the water heater. 
> 
> From Pat:
> 
>> Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?
> 
> 
> Not silly, but it isn?t a permanent whole house generator.  I?ve thought about installing one, and certainly will if weather patterns change enough that we are dealing with this more often, but the price didn?t seem justified given the amount of use that it would get.  As I said, I have had this one for about 8 years and never had to use it.  My main worry has always been an extended outage in the winter, but we don?t need much amperage with propane heat for the furnaces. (Separate heat in the shop.  Hey!  Shop content!).  I haven?t done the exact math, but believe that 4000 Surge Watts/3250 Running Watts will be enough to keep things going here for as long as it takes?as long as I can run off of the in-ground tank.
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?
>> 
>> Peace,
>> Pat
>> 
>> Pat Horne 
>> We support Habitat for Humanity
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>> 
>> Low Pressure Regulator
>> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>> 
>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>> 
>> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>> 
>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 
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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Aug 21 20:41:04 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 22:41:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <6BDCC293-14C1-488A-AFFA-937C9DA14B28@icloud.com>
References: <6BDCC293-14C1-488A-AFFA-937C9DA14B28@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <F08BA9BD-1824-4438-A4B5-41DACECDFC26@gmail.com>

Thanks, Tom. I have  transfer switch for the house furnace; a bigger one has long been on the to do list. This may move that up a bit. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 5:15 PM, Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> ?You?ll be good with what you have. I have a 3 kW Honda on a 10 circuit transfer switch, feeding a 2600 ft2 house. We can?t run the the big power hogs - A/C or electric oven - but other than that, we are good. We run some lighting, internet/computer/TV, NG powered  heat, HW, cooktop, dryer and grill, etc. Its an inverter based system and it rarely runs much above idle unless heat, both fridges, freezer and coffee maker are all calling for power at the same time.
> 
> Tom Coradeschi
> tjcora at icloud.com
> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 4:29 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?From David:
>> 
>>> You need a low pressure regulator. Input is 10 to 15ish inches of water.  Output is 10 inches water. 
>> Steal the one from your furnace, if you need to.
>> 
>> There is a regulator between the tank and the house, so it comes in before the line to the outside.  It is hard to read the regulator, as it is under the porch, which is why I gave the stats for the water heater. 
>> 
>> From Pat:
>> 
>>> Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?
>> 
>> 
>> Not silly, but it isn?t a permanent whole house generator.  I?ve thought about installing one, and certainly will if weather patterns change enough that we are dealing with this more often, but the price didn?t seem justified given the amount of use that it would get.  As I said, I have had this one for about 8 years and never had to use it.  My main worry has always been an extended outage in the winter, but we don?t need much amperage with propane heat for the furnaces. (Separate heat in the shop.  Hey!  Shop content!).  I haven?t done the exact math, but believe that 4000 Surge Watts/3250 Running Watts will be enough to keep things going here for as long as it takes?as long as I can run off of the in-ground tank.
>> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?
>>> 
>>> Peace,
>>> Pat
>>> 
>>> Pat Horne 
>>> We support Habitat for Humanity
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>>> 
>>> Low Pressure Regulator
>>> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>>> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>>> 
>>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>> 
>>> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>>> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>>> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>>> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>>> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>>> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>>> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>> 
>>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>> 
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Sat Aug 21 20:51:49 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 21:51:49 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <F08BA9BD-1824-4438-A4B5-41DACECDFC26@gmail.com>
References: <F08BA9BD-1824-4438-A4B5-41DACECDFC26@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6AA0F914-FEA1-43CD-81A1-11DAD016F98C@icloud.com>

You also might look into a gas quick disconnect so it?s faster, easier & safer to connect the generator next time. The connectors are similar to air hose fittings except the male fitting also has a valve in it. I purchased what was called an extended stay kit for an RV. There are a bunch of different ones, some just fittings. It might be hard to find connectors big enough at RV supply centers. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 21, 2021, at 9:42 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:

?Thanks, Tom. I have  transfer switch for the house furnace; a bigger one has long been on the to do list. This may move that up a bit. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2021, at 5:15 PM, Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> ?You?ll be good with what you have. I have a 3 kW Honda on a 10 circuit transfer switch, feeding a 2600 ft2 house. We can?t run the the big power hogs - A/C or electric oven - but other than that, we are good. We run some lighting, internet/computer/TV, NG powered  heat, HW, cooktop, dryer and grill, etc. Its an inverter based system and it rarely runs much above idle unless heat, both fridges, freezer and coffee maker are all calling for power at the same time.
> 
> Tom Coradeschi
> tjcora at icloud.com
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 4:29 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?From David:
>> 
>>> You need a low pressure regulator. Input is 10 to 15ish inches of water.  Output is 10 inches water. 
>> Steal the one from your furnace, if you need to.
>> 
>> There is a regulator between the tank and the house, so it comes in before the line to the outside.  It is hard to read the regulator, as it is under the porch, which is why I gave the stats for the water heater. 
>> 
>> From Pat:
>> 
>>> Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?
>> 
>> 
>> Not silly, but it isn?t a permanent whole house generator.  I?ve thought about installing one, and certainly will if weather patterns change enough that we are dealing with this more often, but the price didn?t seem justified given the amount of use that it would get.  As I said, I have had this one for about 8 years and never had to use it.  My main worry has always been an extended outage in the winter, but we don?t need much amperage with propane heat for the furnaces. (Separate heat in the shop.  Hey!  Shop content!).  I haven?t done the exact math, but believe that 4000 Surge Watts/3250 Running Watts will be enough to keep things going here for as long as it takes?as long as I can run off of the in-ground tank.
>> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Silly question. Did you talk to the folks that installed the generator?
>>> 
>>> Peace,
>>> Pat
>>> 
>>> Pat Horne 
>>> We support Habitat for Humanity
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
>>> 
>>> Low Pressure Regulator
>>> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>>> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>>> 
>>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>> 
>>> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>>> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>>> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>>> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>>> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>>> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>>> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>> 
>>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
>> 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From nick at landform.co.uk  Sun Aug 22 03:56:56 2021
From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:56:56 +0100
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
 <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f403e043-87c9-7276-46b2-d467e0af180f@landform.co.uk>

Surprised nobody's responded to Phil's very valid concerns.

I realise that this may not be helpful to Jim who's having to study the 
weather radar at hourly intervals but I did a net search and came up 
with this among other items:

https://generatorgeek.com/can-a-propane-generator-run-on-natural-gas/

Short answer, no without modification. As a minimum it must be worth a 
phonecall to http://www.sportsmangenerators.com/contact.html. Although 
bearing in mind these are wholesale importers they may not be the 
ultimate authority. And not available until Monday.

Good luck with the storm.

Nick Brearley


On 21/08/2021 20:19, Phil Ethier wrote:
> No. LP gas and household natural gas are different. You need to rejet 
> products to change over.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths 
>> of Hurricane Henri. ?We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without 
>> power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following 
>> Sandy. ?Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator 
>> (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE 
>> <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>) 
>> which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it 
>> periodically to be safe. ?It is designed to run off of LP tanks and 
>> comes with a standard regulator. ?A little Googling shows the 
>> following specs for the regulator:
>>
>>   * Low Pressure Regulator
>>   * Inlet Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 25-250PSIG
>>   * Outlet Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ?280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>   * Flow Capacity(MAX): ? ?119000(BTU/hr)
>>
>>
>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank. 
>> ? I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, 
>> just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect 
>> the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend 
>> on the portable tanks. ?The house supply is regulated and, as an 
>> example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>
>>   * Max Inlet Gas Pressure: ? ?13.0 ?W.C.
>>   * Min Inlet Gas Pressure: ? ? 8.0 ?W.C.
>>   * Recovery Rating: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 206/Gallons/HR
>>   * Max Working Pressure: ? ? 150psi
>>   * Max Output: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 180,000 BTU/HR
>>   * Max Input: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?11,000 BTU/HR
>>   * Manifold Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ? 3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>
>>
>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator 
>> directly to the house supply without the regulator? ?For the record, 
>> I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and 
>> didn?t put out any appreciable power. ?I always meant to research 
>> this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it 
>> until now.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation ?$12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk 
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick at landform.co.uk
>
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From dhlocker at comcast.net  Sun Aug 22 04:24:07 2021
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 06:24:07 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <f403e043-87c9-7276-46b2-d467e0af180f@landform.co.uk>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
 <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
 <f403e043-87c9-7276-46b2-d467e0af180f@landform.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e6970e8f-e394-1cb4-0605-348e9421e65f@comcast.net>

I'm surprised to see responses assuming natural gas is the house supply.

In the original post, Jim specifically stated that he has LPG/Propane
house heating with a large tank for supply. Someone, somewhere along the
line missed that fact and that piece of conversation went off the rails.

Donald.
--
> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of
> Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without
> power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following
> Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator
>
<https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>
> which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it
> periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and
> comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the
> following specs for the regulator:
>
>     Low Pressure Regulator
>     Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>     Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>     Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>
>
> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.
> I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled,
> just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect
> the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend
> on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an
> example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>
>     Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>     Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>     Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>     Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>     Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>     Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>     Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>
>
> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator
> directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I
> tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t
> put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before
> I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim

On 2021-08-22 5:56 a.m., nick brearley wrote:
> Surprised nobody's responded to Phil's very valid concerns.
> 
> I realise that this may not be helpful to Jim who's having to study the
> weather radar at hourly intervals but I did a net search and came up
> with this among other items:
> 
> https://generatorgeek.com/can-a-propane-generator-run-on-natural-gas/
> 
> Short answer, no without modification. As a minimum it must be worth a
> phonecall to http://www.sportsmangenerators.com/contact.html. Although
> bearing in mind these are wholesale importers they may not be the
> ultimate authority. And not available until Monday.
> 
> Good luck with the storm.
> 
> Nick Brearley
> 
> 
> On 21/08/2021 20:19, Phil Ethier wrote:
>> No. LP gas and household natural gas are different. You need to rejet
>> products to change over.?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths
>>> of Hurricane Henri. ?We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without
>>> power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following
>>> Sandy. ?Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator
>>> (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE
>>> <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>)
>>> which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it
>>> periodically to be safe. ?It is designed to run off of LP tanks and
>>> comes with a standard regulator. ?A little Googling shows the
>>> following specs for the regulator:
>>>
>>>   * Low Pressure Regulator
>>>   * Inlet Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 25-250PSIG
>>>   * Outlet Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ?280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>>   * Flow Capacity(MAX): ? ?119000(BTU/hr)
>>>
>>>
>>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.
>>> ? I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled,
>>> just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect
>>> the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend
>>> on the portable tanks. ?The house supply is regulated and, as an
>>> example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>>
>>>   * Max Inlet Gas Pressure: ? ?13.0 ?W.C.
>>>   * Min Inlet Gas Pressure: ? ? 8.0 ?W.C.
>>>   * Recovery Rating: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 206/Gallons/HR
>>>   * Max Working Pressure: ? ? 150psi
>>>   * Max Output: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 180,000 BTU/HR
>>>   * Max Input: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?11,000 BTU/HR
>>>   * Manifold Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ? 3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>>
>>>
>>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator
>>> directly to the house supply without the regulator? ?For the record,
>>> I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and
>>> didn?t put out any appreciable power. ?I always meant to research
>>> this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it
>>> until now.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation ?$12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick at landform.co.uk
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net
> 

From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sun Aug 22 05:38:18 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 07:38:18 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <e6970e8f-e394-1cb4-0605-348e9421e65f@comcast.net>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
 <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
 <f403e043-87c9-7276-46b2-d467e0af180f@landform.co.uk>
 <e6970e8f-e394-1cb4-0605-348e9421e65f@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <AEC9D49F-17CC-4B53-BC8E-F099FFD406D7@gmail.com>

All is good, guys.  The latest forecast shows the storm moving east and it looks like the eye is going to miss Long Island.  There will certainly be lots of rain and wind and I still expect to lose power at some point, so this will all be of use very soon.  Right now it is just wet and windy, but nothing like we are expecting in a few hours.  More later.
Jim

> On Aug 22, 2021, at 6:24 AM, Donald H Locker <dhlocker at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm surprised to see responses assuming natural gas is the house supply.
> 
> In the original post, Jim specifically stated that he has LPG/Propane
> house heating with a large tank for supply. Someone, somewhere along the
> line missed that fact and that piece of conversation went off the rails.
> 
> Donald.
> --
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com <mailto:1789alpine at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of
>> Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without
>> power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following
>> Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator
>> 
> <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>>
>> which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it
>> periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and
>> comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the
>> following specs for the regulator:
>> 
>>    Low Pressure Regulator
>>    Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>>    Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>    Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>> 
>> 
>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.
>> I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled,
>> just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect
>> the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend
>> on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an
>> example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>> 
>>    Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>>    Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>>    Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>>    Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>>    Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>>    Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>>    Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>> 
>> 
>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator
>> directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I
>> tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t
>> put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before
>> I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
> 
> On 2021-08-22 5:56 a.m., nick brearley wrote:
>> Surprised nobody's responded to Phil's very valid concerns.
>> 
>> I realise that this may not be helpful to Jim who's having to study the
>> weather radar at hourly intervals but I did a net search and came up
>> with this among other items:
>> 
>> https://generatorgeek.com/can-a-propane-generator-run-on-natural-gas/
>> 
>> Short answer, no without modification. As a minimum it must be worth a
>> phonecall to http://www.sportsmangenerators.com/contact.html. Although
>> bearing in mind these are wholesale importers they may not be the
>> ultimate authority. And not available until Monday.
>> 
>> Good luck with the storm.
>> 
>> Nick Brearley
>> 
>> 
>> On 21/08/2021 20:19, Phil Ethier wrote:
>>> No. LP gas and household natural gas are different. You need to rejet
>>> products to change over. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ? I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths
>>>> of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without
>>>> power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following
>>>> Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator
>>>> (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE
>>>> <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>>)
>>>> which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it
>>>> periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and
>>>> comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the
>>>> following specs for the regulator:
>>>> 
>>>>  * Low Pressure Regulator
>>>>  * Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>>>>  * Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>>>  * Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.
>>>>   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled,
>>>> just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect
>>>> the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend
>>>> on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an
>>>> example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>>> 
>>>>  * Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>>>>  * Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>>>>  * Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>>>>  * Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>>>>  * Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>>>>  * Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>>>>  * Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator
>>>> directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record,
>>>> I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and
>>>> didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research
>>>> this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it
>>>> until now.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>> 
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick at landform.co.uk
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net>
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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> 
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From nick at landform.co.uk  Sun Aug 22 06:09:12 2021
From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 13:09:12 +0100
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <e6970e8f-e394-1cb4-0605-348e9421e65f@comcast.net>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
 <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
 <f403e043-87c9-7276-46b2-d467e0af180f@landform.co.uk>
 <e6970e8f-e394-1cb4-0605-348e9421e65f@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8a8bb450-f8d8-40d8-3c07-859f1af09f99@landform.co.uk>

Sorry. Classic case of "Look before you leap". Having a Honda generator 
which I converted to LPG as back up power for a natural gas boiler 
(furnace) I got carried away with the thought of conversion to natural 
gas from lpg. If nothing else it may be worth saving the info if the 
situation arises in the future.

Good wishes still apply.

Nick Brearley


On 22/08/2021 11:24, Donald H Locker wrote:
> I'm surprised to see responses assuming natural gas is the house supply.
>
> In the original post, Jim specifically stated that he has LPG/Propane
> house heating with a large tank for supply. Someone, somewhere along the
> line missed that fact and that piece of conversation went off the rails.
>
> Donald.
> --
>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of
>> Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without
>> power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following
>> Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator
>>
> <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>
>> which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it
>> periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and
>> comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the
>> following specs for the regulator:
>>
>>      Low Pressure Regulator
>>      Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
>>      Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>      Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
>>
>>
>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.
>> I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled,
>> just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect
>> the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend
>> on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an
>> example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>
>>      Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
>>      Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
>>      Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
>>      Max Working Pressure:     150psi
>>      Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
>>      Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
>>      Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>
>>
>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator
>> directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I
>> tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t
>> put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before
>> I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim
> On 2021-08-22 5:56 a.m., nick brearley wrote:
>> Surprised nobody's responded to Phil's very valid concerns.
>>
>> I realise that this may not be helpful to Jim who's having to study the
>> weather radar at hourly intervals but I did a net search and came up
>> with this among other items:
>>
>> https://generatorgeek.com/can-a-propane-generator-run-on-natural-gas/
>>
>> Short answer, no without modification. As a minimum it must be worth a
>> phonecall to http://www.sportsmangenerators.com/contact.html. Although
>> bearing in mind these are wholesale importers they may not be the
>> ultimate authority. And not available until Monday.
>>
>> Good luck with the storm.
>>
>> Nick Brearley
>>
>>
>> On 21/08/2021 20:19, Phil Ethier wrote:
>>> No. LP gas and household natural gas are different. You need to rejet
>>> products to change over.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Aug 21, 2021, at 1:07 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ? I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths
>>>> of Hurricane Henri. ?We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without
>>>> power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following
>>>> Sandy. ?Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator
>>>> (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE
>>>> <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>)
>>>> which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it
>>>> periodically to be safe. ?It is designed to run off of LP tanks and
>>>> comes with a standard regulator. ?A little Googling shows the
>>>> following specs for the regulator:
>>>>
>>>>    * Low Pressure Regulator
>>>>    * Inlet Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 25-250PSIG
>>>>    * Outlet Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ?280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
>>>>    * Flow Capacity(MAX): ? ?119000(BTU/hr)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.
>>>>  ? I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled,
>>>> just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect
>>>> the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend
>>>> on the portable tanks. ?The house supply is regulated and, as an
>>>> example, here are the specs for the water heater:
>>>>
>>>>    * Max Inlet Gas Pressure: ? ?13.0 ?W.C.
>>>>    * Min Inlet Gas Pressure: ? ? 8.0 ?W.C.
>>>>    * Recovery Rating: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 206/Gallons/HR
>>>>    * Max Working Pressure: ? ? 150psi
>>>>    * Max Output: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 180,000 BTU/HR
>>>>    * Max Input: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?11,000 BTU/HR
>>>>    * Manifold Pressure: ? ? ? ? ? ? 3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator
>>>> directly to the house supply without the regulator? ?For the record,
>>>> I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and
>>>> didn?t put out any appreciable power. ?I always meant to research
>>>> this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it
>>>> until now.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation ?$12.96
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>>>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier7 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick at landform.co.uk
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick at landform.co.uk
>

From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sun Aug 22 12:35:05 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:35:05 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
References: <027899F9-876C-4CD0-8A43-33F46A324516@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <845CBDAA-2B5A-4597-85FC-1146D2D935C1@gmail.com>

Time for an update! It really looks like we dodged a bullet here.  Henri missed eastern Long Island, made landfall in RI and all we got was a wet, windy day.  And, not all that wet or windy.  We?ve had plenty worse.   So, I haven't needed the generator.  Of course, a branch could still fall and take out a critical line, so I?ll leave it on the porch and ready to go, just in case.  And, I will spend a little time researching better ways to utilize it the next time, as there will definitely be a next time.

As always, thanks for the help and advice!

Jim


> On Aug 21, 2021, at 2:05 PM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am on Eastern Long Island, directly in one of the projected paths of Hurricane Henri.  We are being told to plan for 7-10 days without power, although FWIW we were only powerless for 4 days following Sandy.  Shortly after Sandy I purchased an LP Generator (https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE <https://www.jbtools.com/buffalo-tools-gen4000lp-4000-watt-propane-generator/?wi=off&gclid=CjwKCAjwyIKJBhBPEiwAu7zll1U54VH4euJneVO0jmOzjdgwy6-t0MUdEtaEHYXf_7W0sQxKo54TphoC__4QAvD_BwE>) which, of course, I have never needed, although I do run it periodically to be safe.  It is designed to run off of LP tanks and comes with a standard regulator.  A little Googling shows the following specs for the regulator:
> 
> Low Pressure Regulator
> Inlet Pressure:               25-250PSIG
> Outlet Pressure:            280mmH2O= (11"W.C.)
> Flow Capacity(MAX):    119000(BTU/hr)
> 
> We use Propane for DHW and heat and have a 500 gallon in-ground tank.   I had an outside gas line stubbed out when the house was remodeled, just in case I ever needed it and I would like to be able to connect the generator directly to the house supply and avoid having to depend on the portable tanks.  The house supply is regulated and, as an example, here are the specs for the water heater:
> 
> Max Inlet Gas Pressure:    13.0 ?W.C.
> Min Inlet Gas Pressure:     8.0 ?W.C.
> Recovery Rating:               206/Gallons/HR
> Max Working Pressure:     150psi
> Max Output:                       180,000 BTU/HR
> Max Input:                          11,000 BTU/HR
> Manifold Pressure:             3.9 ?W.C. (For Max Input)
> 
> Am I missing anything, or should I be able to hook the generator directly to the house supply without the regulator?  For the record, I tried it once with the regulator attached and it barely ran and didn?t put out any appreciable power.  I always meant to research this before I needed it, but like many of us, never got around to it until now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim
> 
> 

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From pethier7 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 22 14:12:47 2021
From: pethier7 at gmail.com (Philip Ethier)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 15:12:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] LP Generator supply
In-Reply-To: <725FDE02-1223-4EDD-9D82-383176EB6615@icloud.com>
References: <4DCE368C-5DC1-4BDE-B9AB-912C429BF950@gmail.com>
 <725FDE02-1223-4EDD-9D82-383176EB6615@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAE16_w0Cs+hy=WaZsRrwj2bzbgYeYzcM5ZwJV3oxbbARkErfKw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 2:22 PM Thomas Coradeschi <tjcora at icloud.com> wrote:

> Phil - he has an LP generator and a 500 gallon LP tank. All good.
>
> Tom Coradeschi
> tjcora at icloud.com
>

Clearly, I need a Reading-Comprehension refresher-course.
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Sun Aug 22 17:23:40 2021
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:23:40 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?

My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?

thanks
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Sun Aug 22 17:29:47 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 18:29:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <4C875EC7-E9BB-4574-9E4D-763A28EBF666@icloud.com>

Any I?ve seen have a duct that goes outside, usually through a window. They use a filer panel like on a window AC would have, only smaller. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 22, 2021, at 6:26 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

thanks
_______________________________________________
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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Sun Aug 22 17:34:53 2021
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 18:34:53 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YD+cOj94kSG_JfNEQghU+0eML3JS+F_Kox1zzOx=6wdWA@mail.gmail.com>

No personal experience, but I have not heard good things.  Check out this
youtube:
https://youtu.be/_-mBeYC2KGc

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 6:26 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From battmain at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 22 17:40:35 2021
From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:40:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1016626082.451717.1629675635786@mail.yahoo.com>

At work, we exhausted above the drop ceiling. Supposed to be outside.? Some units have both exhaust and intake hoses. Measure carefully the area. These things are power hogs for the amount of cooling. Mini Splits are way better if possible.? 
 
  On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 7:26 PM, Tim .<tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:    #yiv9526583957 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance??
My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
thanks_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation? $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From JIBrooks at live.com  Sun Aug 22 17:44:13 2021
From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:44:13 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CO1PR06MB79945BCD60D921B508777BBAA8C39@CO1PR06MB7994.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

The better ones have two ducts that vent outside, one for inlet and one for exhaust otherwise you are drawing in air from outside, etc.  From what I have seen people discussing in the RV world, efficiencies are typically notoriously low.

Many RV'ers are installing inverter style mini splits instead. They are just hanging the "outside" portion on the outer wall of the RV.  The kicker is that they seem to be able to find HVAC guys that will check over and fill a system they install resulting in much lower installed costs.

Jack


From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Tim .
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 4:24 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units

Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?

My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?

thanks
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From ronnie.day at gmail.com  Sun Aug 22 18:14:05 2021
From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 19:14:05 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd:  "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMHhs6dibM1CbM5vrpfnbG-nk=XFEpSjdZ69PH6H28UuDhsUtw@mail.gmail.com>

We've got an LG (I think) in a 14 x 28 building we use as a wood shop. It
works pretty well in our fairly humid, recently hot central Texas location.
We bought the building pre-built, and it was trucked in. We then had it
spray foam insulated, we put 3/8 plywood on the walls and then surface
mounted the power. The A/C is only portable insofar as it's not mounted in
a window or wall. It's pretty heavy! It's the largest portable that HD
offers. The two windows aren't big enough for a big enough window unit, and
we didn't want to poke a hole in a wall.

As has been mentioned, it exhausts via about an 8 inch corrugated plastic
hose maybe 7 feet long to a panel in one of the windows. We're happy with
it. We use a couple of big pedestal fans to move air around the rest of the
shop.

FWIW,
RD

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 6:26 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com
>
>
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From bspidell at comcast.net  Sun Aug 22 19:11:06 2021
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 18:11:06 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <a20602fe-2f62-45fa-6491-7416e50d5071@comcast.net>

When the A/C crapped out in the house we were renting a couple months 
ago we got a 'portable' unit for the upstairs bedroom. This was a 
2-story house and even when we had functional central air the upstairs 
was always 3-4degF hotter than the downstairs. The portable unit was a 
little larger than a 13-gal garbage can and did a fair job (this when 
ambient air was triple digits here in the Central Valley). It had a 
single duct and an extendable panel to seal it in a semi-open window; 
honestly, I don't know if it was for fresh air or exhaust (probably 
exhaust, I think it just recirculated room air). I've seen similar units 
at Lowes for $300-400.

Bob

On 8/22/2021 4:23 PM, Tim . wrote:
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an 
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
>

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From shannahquilts at gmail.com  Mon Aug 23 00:38:55 2021
From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:38:55 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAAy7z=0YWGMCCrA1-ck9JrZ1T=twbhXEgPEssEY_b1HHZAuyOA@mail.gmail.com>

We have this unit:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003MQBYYU

We've had it since 2015 and it still works great.  It vents
to the outside.  It's cooling the equivalent of a 1 car
garage, plus or minus.  Even though the structure is
brick, it keeps up pretty well.

Shannah

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 4:26 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>
>
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Mon Aug 23 11:13:17 2021
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 17:13:17 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks for the replies all.

I want to get something for my office (that has no window) at work. I would have to run the exhaust vent up into/above the drop ceiling. I wonder if one of these units would work?



________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units

Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?

My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?

thanks
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From ronnie.day at gmail.com  Mon Aug 23 11:41:49 2021
From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:41:49 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMHhs6eHQ=a9itjgC8bOkejFLD1BwqZcRp+itJWG5ebYT-=-aw@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe. You'd need to extend the exhaust "hose", which isn't usually
recommended but it might work since you'd be venting up. You'd probably
need at least one more exhaust hose depending on how high the ceiling is
and some way to connect them together. Maybe a length of PVC or something
that fits inside the hoses and duct tape or gaffers tape (better) to hold
those joints together. Then you'd need to fab a panel to connect the hose
end to the dropped ceiling. Does the ceiling use 2 x 4 tiles? If so it
should be easy to cut a piece of 3/8 to replace a tile and mount the flange
to connect the upper end of the exhaust hose. How large an area is there
above the dropped ceiling and is that area limited to the footprint of your
office? That hot exhaust air, and it's pretty hot, has to have space to
spread out and cool down.

Oh, these things aren't real quiet, either. Try to get near one that's
running to see if that might bother you after a few minutes.

HTH

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 12:14 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the replies all.
>
> I want to get something for my office (that has no window) at work. I
> would have to run the exhaust vent up into/above the drop ceiling. I wonder
> if one of these units would work?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <
> tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM
> *To:* Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com
>
>
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Aug 23 11:51:28 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:51:28 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <CAMHhs6eHQ=a9itjgC8bOkejFLD1BwqZcRp+itJWG5ebYT-=-aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMHhs6eHQ=a9itjgC8bOkejFLD1BwqZcRp+itJWG5ebYT-=-aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBF20903-8BEA-49AA-A5DF-2F6BA8D58FA5@icloud.com>

If the area above the ceiling is a return air space, you should be good to go. If the space is just a dead air space, it won?t work. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 23, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Ronnie Day <ronnie.day at gmail.com> wrote:

?
Maybe. You'd need to extend the exhaust "hose", which isn't usually recommended but it might work since you'd be venting up. You'd probably need at least one more exhaust hose depending on how high the ceiling is and some way to connect them together. Maybe a length of PVC or something that fits inside the hoses and duct tape or gaffers tape (better) to hold those joints together. Then you'd need to fab a panel to connect the hose end to the dropped ceiling. Does the ceiling use 2 x 4 tiles? If so it should be easy to cut a piece of 3/8 to replace a tile and mount the flange to connect the upper end of the exhaust hose. How large an area is there above the dropped ceiling and is that area limited to the footprint of your office? That hot exhaust air, and it's pretty hot, has to have space to spread out and cool down.

Oh, these things aren't real quiet, either. Try to get near one that's running to see if that might bother you after a few minutes.

HTH

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 12:14 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the replies all. 
> 
> I want to get something for my office (that has no window) at work. I would have to run the exhaust vent up into/above the drop ceiling. I wonder if one of these units would work?
> 
> 
> 
> From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM
> To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
>  
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance? 
> 
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
> 
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com
> 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

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From tjcora at icloud.com  Mon Aug 23 13:57:20 2021
From: tjcora at icloud.com (Thomas Coradeschi)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 15:57:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5E6FB76F-6EDC-467F-A8DF-FF67C648661C@icloud.com>

My son bought one (Army barracks in Europe don?t have A/C) and it seems to work well for him. I assume you are talking about a true A/C unit and not a swamp cooler. I can?t imagine efficiencies are very good,  but for occasional use?


Tom Coradeschi
tjcora at icloud.com

> On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:26 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance? 
> 
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
> 
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tjcora at icloud.com
> 
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From shannahquilts at gmail.com  Mon Aug 23 14:46:43 2021
From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 13:46:43 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAAy7z=28xdwOuPCLbAxEc=ZqbKKYSfnsD2FdMB=Nj6W4S-SF0w@mail.gmail.com>

Ronnie has a good point - the one we have really is noisy.
Also, I don't think that an exhaust that long will be good for
the machine.

What about a mini-split so you could put the noisy part
outside?

Shannah

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 10:14 AM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the replies all.
>
> I want to get something for my office (that has no window) at work. I
> would have to run the exhaust vent up into/above the drop ceiling. I wonder
> if one of these units would work?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <
> tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM
> *To:* Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com
>
>
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Mon Aug 23 17:23:21 2021
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 23:23:21 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB4629B9BD2256C5180CA468E9B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

I think the noise will be the deal killer. If they hear it I will loose it. (confiscated)
thanks again all
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 12:13 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units

Thanks for the replies all.

I want to get something for my office (that has no window) at work. I would have to run the exhaust vent up into/above the drop ceiling. I wonder if one of these units would work?



________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units

Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?

My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?

thanks
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Aug 23 17:35:47 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 18:35:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629B9BD2256C5180CA468E9B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB4629B9BD2256C5180CA468E9B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <040635A8-A77F-429A-8D73-963C5A355070@icloud.com>

Time for plan B

How about a cool vest?  Check out www.cool shirt.com. You could build your own with an ice chest, small water pump, some tubing to put in the ice, connect the pump the vest.  

Probably cheaper than an AC too!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 23, 2021, at 6:24 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

?
I think the noise will be the deal killer. If they hear it I will loose it. (confiscated)
thanks again all
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 12:13 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
 
Thanks for the replies all. 

I want to get something for my office (that has no window) at work. I would have to run the exhaust vent up into/above the drop ceiling. I wonder if one of these units would work?



From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
 
Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance? 

My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?

thanks
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com

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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Mon Aug 23 17:45:23 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 19:45:23 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629B9BD2256C5180CA468E9B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <DS7PR19MB4629B9BD2256C5180CA468E9B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <37E3B080-D5E5-43A2-90EA-4DE7E7C866DE@gmail.com>

Tim: I don?t know if this will help your situation at all, but years ago I had an office that was at the very end of the HVAC run and had very poor air circulation.  In the winter, I would sit at my desk freezing and then stand up and find it was 10 degrees warmer near my head.  I assume the exact opposite would have happened in the summer.  The office had just been renovated and the contractor stopped by one day to check things out.  I talked to him about my office and he returned the next day with a new ceiling vent with a built in ceiling fan.  It looked a lot like a small ceiling fan but it was air powered.  The blades turned slowly when the system was blowing hot or cold air and did nothing the rest of the time.  I was very skeptical of it as an effective solution, but it actually did the trick.  It provided enough air circulation that the office was comfortable in all seasons.  I have never seen another like it and just tried unsuccessfully to find one online, but maybe someone else will know the proper search terms.

Jim

> On Aug 23, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> I think the noise will be the deal killer. If they hear it I will loose it. (confiscated)
> thanks again all
> From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net>> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com <mailto:tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 12:13 PM
> To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
>  
> Thanks for the replies all. 
> 
> I want to get something for my office (that has no window) at work. I would have to run the exhaust vent up into/above the drop ceiling. I wonder if one of these units would work?
> 
> 
> 
> From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net>> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com <mailto:tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>>
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM
> To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>>
> Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
>  
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance? 
> 
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
> 
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com>
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From ronnie.day at gmail.com  Mon Aug 23 19:59:23 2021
From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 20:59:23 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB4629B9BD2256C5180CA468E9B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <DS7PR19MB4629A69E083235660337D468B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <DS7PR19MB4629B9BD2256C5180CA468E9B4C49@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAMHhs6ez3C1fsyTe+ws+D1St8YNBU59DAw=DrcVU2T1bYrtSAA@mail.gmail.com>

And I just remembered our draws quite a bit of current, at least 12 amps.
That could easily be a problem.

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 6:24 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> I think the noise will be the deal killer. If they hear it I will loose
> it. (confiscated)
> thanks again all
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <
> tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 23, 2021 12:13 PM
> *To:* Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
>
> Thanks for the replies all.
>
> I want to get something for my office (that has no window) at work. I
> would have to run the exhaust vent up into/above the drop ceiling. I wonder
> if one of these units would work?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <
> tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:23 PM
> *To:* Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com
>
>
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From bk13 at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 24 00:03:15 2021
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 23:03:15 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <3764b999-e00f-0520-0c32-bf7defe6a354@earthlink.net>

I bought a single duct portable AC for a bedroom that had a sliding 
window in a house without AC.? The duct is similar to a dryer exhaust 
and can be permanently mounted in the wall like a dryer or bathroom 
exhaust vent.? This unit had a 4" duct.

Too loud to use while sleeping.? The single duct exhausted the 
conditioned room air outside like a powerful exhaust fan.

In a network closet at work they installed a better unit with 8" supply 
and return ducts and a condensate pump.? It is even louder to the point 
that you can't have a conversation nearby, but does keep the room at 65 
deg.? This unit is installed with both ducts going to a bracket that 
mounts in the suspended ceiling.? They had to get a plumber to run a 
drain line for the condensate pump.? An electrician also had to install 
a dedicated 20A circuit.

I'd encourage other solutions.? Had problems with no air in my office 
and finally got a facilities guy to take a look.? It turns out they ran 
some big conduit for lots of network cables and the supply duct was in 
the way, so they just disconnected it and the duct was blowing cold air 
above the ceiling.? The guy moved the supply grill to a different 
ceiling grid location and reconnected the duct.? Maybe you can get this 
lucky.? Most offices also have a baffle or damper to balance air flow.? 
Maybe yours is shut because the previous person found it too cold.

I've also seen people take a box fan and use some coat hanger wire to 
attach it to the ceiling return grid to serve as an exhaust fan, 
removing hot air from the office.

Brian

On 8/22/2021 4:23 PM, Tim . wrote:
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an 
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>

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From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 09:25:42 2021
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:25:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <3764b999-e00f-0520-0c32-bf7defe6a354@earthlink.net>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <3764b999-e00f-0520-0c32-bf7defe6a354@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP8o1SF0qNVP0YC51th231p7L7YMqbJ4b7P8Z28toOpeDQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a fair amount of experience with these sorts of units. As has been
mentioned earlier, they're pretty noisy, and not terribly efficient.

Simpler units have just a single output hose and a condensate tank/pump.
Slightly less simple units will send that moisture out via the hot exhaust.

Fundamentally, there are two inputs and two outputs - evaporator in/out,
which absorbs heat from the conditioned space and outputs cool air, and the
compressor in/out, which takes outside (unconditioned space) air and
exhausts the heat from the compressor coil.

Most simpler units combine the compressor and evaporator intake - which
leads to negative air pressure in the conditioned space (because all intake
air comes from the conditioned space), and outside (unconditioned) air
leaks in through any available aperture (or the room approaches a vacuum),
and therein is a big source of inefficiency.

If your office has forced-air ventilation, but just doesn't have enough
airflow, perhaps a duct booster blower like this would help?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/VENTS-US-162-CFM-Dryer-Booster-Fan-with-4-in-Duct-VENTS-VK-100-PS/206398496

Of course, if your office is pretty dry while hot, you could employ some
evaporative cooling.

-Peter

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 2:10 AM Brian Kemp <bk13 at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I bought a single duct portable AC for a bedroom that had a sliding window
> in a house without AC.  The duct is similar to a dryer exhaust and can be
> permanently mounted in the wall like a dryer or bathroom exhaust vent.
> This unit had a 4" duct.
>
> Too loud to use while sleeping.  The single duct exhausted the conditioned
> room air outside like a powerful exhaust fan.
>
> In a network closet at work they installed a better unit with 8" supply
> and return ducts and a condensate pump.  It is even louder to the point
> that you can't have a conversation nearby, but does keep the room at 65
> deg.  This unit is installed with both ducts going to a bracket that mounts
> in the suspended ceiling.  They had to get a plumber to run a drain line
> for the condensate pump.  An electrician also had to install a dedicated
> 20A circuit.
>
> I'd encourage other solutions.  Had problems with no air in my office and
> finally got a facilities guy to take a look.  It turns out they ran some
> big conduit for lots of network cables and the supply duct was in the way,
> so they just disconnected it and the duct was blowing cold air above the
> ceiling.  The guy moved the supply grill to a different ceiling grid
> location and reconnected the duct.  Maybe you can get this lucky.  Most
> offices also have a baffle or damper to balance air flow.  Maybe yours is
> shut because the previous person found it too cold.
>
> I've also seen people take a box fan and use some coat hanger wire to
> attach it to the ceiling return grid to serve as an exhaust fan, removing
> hot air from the office.
>
> Brian
>
> On 8/22/2021 4:23 PM, Tim . wrote:
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance?
>
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an
> exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
>
> thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
>
>
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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Sat Aug 28 16:31:13 2021
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 18:31:13 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] "portable" AC units
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46293C837EAB564A8479D349B4C39@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <C8A8E182-CEA9-441D-944E-0D00BDA6A499@gmail.com>

Just saw this in Popular Mechanics.  They didn?t appear to test the noise levels, but they did mention that the LG "impressed us with its ability to quickly and quietly cool an area while drawing as little current as possible??. In theory, that might work for you. 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/g3066/best-portable-air-conditioners/?source=nl&utm_campaign=nl24855514&utm_medium=email&utm_source=nl_pop&utm_term=AAA%20--%20High%20Minus%20Dormant%20and%2090%20Day%20Non%20Openers

> On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone here have any experience with said appliance? 
> 
> My main wonder is where does the exhaust go? Does these things have an exhaust "port" that I can hook a hose up to and run it where ever?
> 
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com>
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From mbarre at juno.com  Mon Aug 30 10:43:44 2021
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:43:44 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lighting question
Message-ID: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

OK, so it is kitchen lighting but it is where I make my sandwiches that I eat in the SHOP!

I have a 2 x2 surface mount fixture with 2 T12 bent tube fluorescents. Works fine but occasionally you have to flip the switch multiple times to get it on.  I thought probably a bad switch but it is on a dual switch and it is intermittent on both&#65533;. Two bad switches or maybe a ballast going bad?

I was semi surprised to find that the bulbs are still available for $10 each.  An electronic ballast isn?t much more so I can completely replace the guts for $30.  Before I do, should I upgrade to T8, T5 or even LED?  I could easily fit an 18 inch round or square led panel into the existing fixture.

Any thoughts?

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 10:49:33 2021
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:49:33 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lighting question
In-Reply-To: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YBHMYHU-TqEfmuppunU0NVeNL0=nu561sigrbPQSdcD4g@mail.gmail.com>

I'd be tempted to go LED, but beware a lot of the square LED fixtures use a
different approach to dimming.  If you want dimming capability, this might
matter to you.  If not, Just go for it.  2x2 LED's designed for drop
ceilings are pretty cheap  and can be had a variety of different outputs
and color temperatures.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 11:46 AM Matt <mbarre at juno.com> wrote:

> OK, so it is kitchen lighting but it is where I make my sandwiches that I
> eat in the SHOP!
>
> I have a 2 x2 surface mount fixture with 2 T12 bent tube fluorescents.
> Works fine but occasionally you have to flip the switch multiple times to
> get it on.  I thought probably a bad switch but it is on a dual switch and
> it is intermittent on both&#65533;. Two bad switches or maybe a ballast
> going bad?
>
> I was semi surprised to find that the bulbs are still available for $10
> each.  An electronic ballast isn?t much more so I can completely replace
> the guts for $30.  Before I do, should I upgrade to T8, T5 or even LED?  I
> could easily fit an 18 inch round or square led panel into the existing
> fixture.
>
> Any thoughts?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Aug 30 10:50:14 2021
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:50:14 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lighting question
In-Reply-To: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <85C3D818-1510-4A28-B4E0-82A7767CBF32@icloud.com>

Make sure the fixture is grounded. If it isn?t, it can cause this symptom. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 30, 2021, at 11:46 AM, Matt <mbarre at juno.com> wrote:

?OK, so it is kitchen lighting but it is where I make my sandwiches that I eat in the SHOP!

I have a 2 x2 surface mount fixture with 2 T12 bent tube fluorescents. Works fine but occasionally you have to flip the switch multiple times to get it on.  I thought probably a bad switch but it is on a dual switch and it is intermittent on both&#65533;. Two bad switches or maybe a ballast going bad?

I was semi surprised to find that the bulbs are still available for $10 each.  An electronic ballast isn?t much more so I can completely replace the guts for $30.  Before I do, should I upgrade to T8, T5 or even LED?  I could easily fit an 18 inch round or square led panel into the existing fixture.

Any thoughts?
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From fishplate at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 10:50:42 2021
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 12:50:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lighting question
In-Reply-To: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CPkFzg9f=8f-MVFxJ=8O5nE1m9GfG0-tbVWpDnJszOQtw@mail.gmail.com>

If you can fit an LED fixture in there, I don't' see any reason not to.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 12:46 PM Matt <mbarre at juno.com> wrote:
>
> OK, so it is kitchen lighting but it is where I make my sandwiches that I eat in the SHOP!
>
> I have a 2 x2 surface mount fixture with 2 T12 bent tube fluorescents. Works fine but occasionally you have to flip the switch multiple times to get it on.  I thought probably a bad switch but it is on a dual switch and it is intermittent on both&#65533;. Two bad switches or maybe a ballast going bad?
>
> I was semi surprised to find that the bulbs are still available for $10 each.  An electronic ballast isn?t much more so I can completely replace the guts for $30.  Before I do, should I upgrade to T8, T5 or even LED?  I could easily fit an 18 inch round or square led panel into the existing fixture.
>
> Any thoughts?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>

From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org  Mon Aug 30 11:59:45 2021
From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 13:59:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lighting question
In-Reply-To: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <19178e50-7630-f6b4-43ea-2c6975fe8a80@sackheads.org>

Before you spend too much money retrofitting that fixture, have you 
considered installing some LED track-lighting in its place?? I had one 
of those dual-U fluorescent fixtures in the kitchen when I moved in.? 
Could never get shadow-free lighting on the counters when I was 
working.? Wound up installing some generic track in an "L" shape and 
bought 8 PAR30 LED fixtures.? Total outlay was about $150 but now I have 
around 9000 lumens in the kitchen and the light is where I need it.? For 
a while, I had better lighting in the kitchen than I had in my garage!


On 8/30/21 12:43, Matt wrote:
> OK, so it is kitchen lighting but it is where I make my sandwiches that I eat in the SHOP!
>
> I have a 2 x2 surface mount fixture with 2 T12 bent tube fluorescents. Works fine but occasionally you have to flip the switch multiple times to get it on.  I thought probably a bad switch but it is on a dual switch and it is intermittent on both&#65533;. Two bad switches or maybe a ballast going bad?
>
> I was semi surprised to find that the bulbs are still available for $10 each.  An electronic ballast isn?t much more so I can completely replace the guts for $30.  Before I do, should I upgrade to T8, T5 or even LED?  I could easily fit an 18 inch round or square led panel into the existing fixture.
>
> Any thoughts?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org
>


From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 13:47:48 2021
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 15:47:48 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lighting question
In-Reply-To: <19178e50-7630-f6b4-43ea-2c6975fe8a80@sackheads.org>
References: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
 <19178e50-7630-f6b4-43ea-2c6975fe8a80@sackheads.org>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP_eDWOjf2PtGHcHwBLrMZRj+yezHandLWpf3Eog0Bbang@mail.gmail.com>

If you're wedded to the fixture, then a ballast or switch could fix that
issue. If you just want the light to work, perhaps one of these 2' X 2' LED
ceiling fixtures would be an easy (no paintwork needed) replacement:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lithonia-Lighting-2-ft-x-2-ft-LL-CPANL-LED-Flat-Panel-with-3300-Lumens-and-3500-to-5000K-Switchable-CCT-with-Direct-Ceiling-Mount-Bracket/5001878521

My MiL had one installed in her kitchen (replaced a 2' X 4' fluorescent)
and it works incredibly well. Color temperature is adjustable to suit your
desires.

-Peter

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:00 PM Jimmie Mayfield <
mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org> wrote:

> Before you spend too much money retrofitting that fixture, have you
> considered installing some LED track-lighting in its place?  I had one
> of those dual-U fluorescent fixtures in the kitchen when I moved in.
> Could never get shadow-free lighting on the counters when I was
> working.  Wound up installing some generic track in an "L" shape and
> bought 8 PAR30 LED fixtures.  Total outlay was about $150 but now I have
> around 9000 lumens in the kitchen and the light is where I need it.  For
> a while, I had better lighting in the kitchen than I had in my garage!
>
>
> On 8/30/21 12:43, Matt wrote:
> > OK, so it is kitchen lighting but it is where I make my sandwiches that
> I eat in the SHOP!
> >
> > I have a 2 x2 surface mount fixture with 2 T12 bent tube fluorescents.
> Works fine but occasionally you have to flip the switch multiple times to
> get it on.  I thought probably a bad switch but it is on a dual switch and
> it is intermittent on both&#65533;. Two bad switches or maybe a ballast
> going bad?
> >
> > I was semi surprised to find that the bulbs are still available for $10
> each.  An electronic ballast isn?t much more so I can completely replace
> the guts for $30.  Before I do, should I upgrade to T8, T5 or even LED?  I
> could easily fit an 18 inch round or square led panel into the existing
> fixture.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 20:07:54 2021
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 21:07:54 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lighting question
In-Reply-To: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20210830.124344.5142.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5sur1iEcQdaXobni_2kEdDS6Hqd_aw1gfsL41kjkm6=ZPLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 11:46 AM Matt <mbarre at juno.com> wrote:
>
> OK, so it is kitchen lighting but it is where I make my sandwiches that I eat in the SHOP!
>
> I have a 2 x2 surface mount fixture with 2 T12 bent tube fluorescents. Works fine but occasionally you have to flip the switch multiple times to get it on.  I thought probably a bad switch but it is on a dual switch and it is intermittent on both&#65533;. Two bad switches or maybe a ballast going bad?
>

Sounds like a bad starter.  Is it built into the tube, or is
independent?  Replace the tube or starter, depending.  Or replace the
fixture, if that's your thing.  I wouldn't replace the ballast, unless
you want the retro 70s look.





-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com