From lee at automate-it.com  Thu Oct  1 17:09:24 2020
From: lee at automate-it.com (lee at automate-it.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 18:09:24 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <a07bf8e2-45d2-1174-05df-cc88076d0d3e@milleredp.com>
References: <MWHPR06MB3151597AC4B25F22206758ADA8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <71B971D6-FC88-4125-A961-655838FF83CB@icloud.com>
 <MWHPR06MB3151988174489983A7601217A8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <a07bf8e2-45d2-1174-05df-cc88076d0d3e@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>

I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V
circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would
just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the
interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs
in series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any
suggestions appreciated!

(I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust
this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical
intuition!)
Thanks!!!
 Lee
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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Thu Oct  1 17:16:48 2020
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2020 18:16:48 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
References: <MWHPR06MB3151597AC4B25F22206758ADA8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <71B971D6-FC88-4125-A961-655838FF83CB@icloud.com>
 <MWHPR06MB3151988174489983A7601217A8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <a07bf8e2-45d2-1174-05df-cc88076d0d3e@milleredp.com>
 <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YAgH-5MEZaciErqf4h=Hnwi_ZegXUET3Qs=FmD8WFi6XQ@mail.gmail.com>

We need a little more info.  What is your PID output rated at (volts,
amps).  What are your SSR input requirements (volts amps).  Are you doing
true proportional or a bang/bang approximation?

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:10 PM <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:

> I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V
> circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just
> wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the
> interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in
> series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any
> suggestions appreciated!
>
> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust
> this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)
> Thanks!!!
>  Lee
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From dhlocker at comcast.net  Thu Oct  1 17:29:46 2020
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2020 19:29:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
References: <MWHPR06MB3151597AC4B25F22206758ADA8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <71B971D6-FC88-4125-A961-655838FF83CB@icloud.com>
 <MWHPR06MB3151988174489983A7601217A8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <a07bf8e2-45d2-1174-05df-cc88076d0d3e@milleredp.com>
 <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
Message-ID: <fa687885-b38f-0fba-6e78-9c2ab75d0b34@comcast.net>

More than likely, you should connect the PID controller's outputs to the
SSRs in parallel - each SSR '+' terminal connected to the controller's
'+' output and each SSR '-' terminal connected to the controller's '-'
terminal.

SSRs typically have LED input stages and the likelihood of both SSRs
requiring the same current at half the voltage that the PID controller
can provide is slim. More likely, both SSRs require some minimum
voltage; the PID controller should be able to provide that voltage while
still providing the current to both SSRs.

If you can tell us the PID controller's and the SSRs manufacturer/model
info, we can probably help more.

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ <https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>

On 2020-10-01 7:09 p.m., lee at automate-it.com wrote:
> I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V
> circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would
> just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the
> interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs
> in series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any
> suggestions appreciated!
> 
> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust
> this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)
> Thanks!!!
> ?Lee
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net
> 

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu Oct  1 21:26:00 2020
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:26:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
References: <MWHPR06MB3151597AC4B25F22206758ADA8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <71B971D6-FC88-4125-A961-655838FF83CB@icloud.com>
 <MWHPR06MB3151988174489983A7601217A8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <a07bf8e2-45d2-1174-05df-cc88076d0d3e@milleredp.com>
 <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20201001231838.04c6daa0@cox.net>

At 07:09 PM 10/1/2020, lee at automate-it.com wrote:

 >I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 
110V circuit,
 >the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just 
wire them in
 >parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs suggests
 >otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series 
with a PID. Does
 >this look correct for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!

Lee,

I don't know where you got the idea that putting them in parallel 
would not work.
Nor do I know if a PID is really the correct tool to use here.

You don't really say what or why you are trying to control.

In series, both solid state relays would have to close at the same 
time to cause and both load would be energized.  Not know what your 
are trying to do, I'd
think you'd want to be able to turn either one or off regardless of 
the state of the
other relay, which would require a seperate output line for each ssr.

You might be better off using one of the micro controllers like a 
Raspberry pi controller,  Arduino, or the BASIC stamp.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
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If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
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      In God We Trust
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From lee at automate-it.com  Thu Oct  1 22:11:53 2020
From: lee at automate-it.com (lee at automate-it.com)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:11:53 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YAgH-5MEZaciErqf4h=Hnwi_ZegXUET3Qs=FmD8WFi6XQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MWHPR06MB3151597AC4B25F22206758ADA8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <71B971D6-FC88-4125-A961-655838FF83CB@icloud.com>
 <MWHPR06MB3151988174489983A7601217A8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <a07bf8e2-45d2-1174-05df-cc88076d0d3e@milleredp.com>
 <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
 <CANuE7YAgH-5MEZaciErqf4h=Hnwi_ZegXUET3Qs=FmD8WFi6XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fd6d57c43380eb6925b3d4aef8165245@automate-it.com>

Ok sorry, yes, I should have included the power details:

  - The PID (Inkbird ITC-106VH) provides 12 VDC, up to 30mA to the SSR.
  - The SSRs (Inkbird SSR-40 DA) activate at 3 VDC (specs are 3-32 VDC)

Lee


On 2020-10-01 18:16, John Innis wrote:
> We need a little more info.  What is your PID output rated at (volts,
> amps).  What are your SSR input requirements (volts amps).  Are you
> doing true proportional or a bang/bang approximation?
> 
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:10 PM <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:
> 
>> I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a
>> 110V circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I
>> would just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking
>> around the interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this
>> drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID. Does this look correct
>> for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!
>> 
>> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I
>> trust this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my
>> electrical intuition!)
>> Thanks!!!
>> Lee

From neiljsherry at talktalk.net  Fri Oct  2 01:22:20 2020
From: neiljsherry at talktalk.net (neiljsherry at talktalk.net)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2020 08:22:20 +0100
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <fd6d57c43380eb6925b3d4aef8165245@automate-it.com>
References: <MWHPR06MB3151597AC4B25F22206758ADA8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <71B971D6-FC88-4125-A961-655838FF83CB@icloud.com>
 <MWHPR06MB3151988174489983A7601217A8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <a07bf8e2-45d2-1174-05df-cc88076d0d3e@milleredp.com>
 <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
 <CANuE7YAgH-5MEZaciErqf4h=Hnwi_ZegXUET3Qs=FmD8WFi6XQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <fd6d57c43380eb6925b3d4aef8165245@automate-it.com>
Message-ID: <F4D0BF8D-75F8-4136-A3A8-C9F74E091173@talktalk.net>

Is there an option to use the pid  to switch one SSR (say the 110v one) and then switch the 220v from the 110v output with a conventional relay (or step back down to 20v and use the SSR).

On 2 October 2020 05:11:53 BST, lee at automate-it.com wrote:
>Ok sorry, yes, I should have included the power details:
>
>  - The PID (Inkbird ITC-106VH) provides 12 VDC, up to 30mA to the SSR.
>  - The SSRs (Inkbird SSR-40 DA) activate at 3 VDC (specs are 3-32 VDC)
>
>Lee
>
>
>On 2020-10-01 18:16, John Innis wrote:
>> We need a little more info.  What is your PID output rated at (volts,
>> amps).  What are your SSR input requirements (volts amps).  Are you
>> doing true proportional or a bang/bang approximation?
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:10 PM <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a
>>> 110V circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I
>>> would just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking
>>> around the interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this
>>> drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID. Does this look correct
>>> for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!
>>> 
>>> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I
>>> trust this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my
>>> electrical intuition!)
>>> Thanks!!!
>>> Lee
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>Unsubscribe/Manage:
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/neiljsherry at talktalk.net

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From fishplate at gmail.com  Fri Oct  2 03:43:56 2020
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 05:43:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
References: <MWHPR06MB3151597AC4B25F22206758ADA8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <71B971D6-FC88-4125-A961-655838FF83CB@icloud.com>
 <MWHPR06MB3151988174489983A7601217A8580@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <a07bf8e2-45d2-1174-05df-cc88076d0d3e@milleredp.com>
 <ed9f7d7e0ded23c0d713bd6411c34839@automate-it.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CPBbdnetKNkQZXReFZZh7U0hUeQaw+-Hb4jqjzUeK7a1A@mail.gmail.com>

You can drive one off of the regular output, and another relay off of the
Alarm output.  The alarm wouldn't be fancy controlled, but it's not clear
what the application is.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 7:10 PM <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:

> I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V
> circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just
> wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the
> interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in
> series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any
> suggestions appreciated!
>
> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust
> this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)
> Thanks!!!
>  Lee
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Fri Oct  2 10:20:44 2020
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 11:20:44 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CPBbdnetKNkQZXReFZZh7U0hUeQaw+-Hb4jqjzUeK7a1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO8Q7CPBbdnetKNkQZXReFZZh7U0hUeQaw+-Hb4jqjzUeK7a1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BB204DC4-DE6E-42EE-9506-AD546A6FB5E6@icloud.com>

If the problem with running them in parallel is the required current, you can always add a transistor to up the available current outside the PID. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Oct 2, 2020, at 4:45 AM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

?
You can drive one off of the regular output, and another relay off of the Alarm output.  The alarm wouldn't be fancy controlled, but it's not clear what the application is.

> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 7:10 PM <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:
> I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!
> 
> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)
> Thanks!!!
>  Lee
> <0905ec96.png>
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
> 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Sat Oct  3 00:55:52 2020
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 23:55:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1601661602.29860.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.5.1601661602.29860.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <6983f1a2-77bd-c575-9b6d-60d6e9cc3fd4@threeboysfarm.com>

Short answer: yes, you can run them successfully in parallel. The PID 
relay control output puts out 12V at up to 30mA.? The relays turn on 
with a minimum of 3V (max 32V) applied, and at a low current.? So 12V is 
good (more than 3, less than 32), and the only issue is if 30mA, or 15mA 
per relay, is enough to trigger it. And it is.? This particular one does 
not spec the current to turn on but I looked at one from a 'real' 
supplier (Omega) and they spec a max of 14mA (and it's only that high 
because there is an LED in their relay showing that it is on).? Think 
about plugging two lamps into a wall outlet: it's fine as long as you do 
not draw too many amps - you have 15 or 20A max.? 2 lights? OK (less 
than an amp each).? 2 toaster ovens? Not so good (12-14 amps each). 
These are more lampish.? The output of the relays are where the large 
power will be controlled (which is why you use the relays).

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com

On 10/2/2020 11:00 AM, shop-talk-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 7:10 PM <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:
>> I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!
>>
>> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)
>> Thanks!!!
>>   Lee
>>

From dave1massey at cs.com  Sat Oct  3 06:47:12 2020
From: dave1massey at cs.com (DAVID MASSEY)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 12:47:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller
In-Reply-To: <6983f1a2-77bd-c575-9b6d-60d6e9cc3fd4@threeboysfarm.com>
References: <mailman.5.1601661602.29860.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
 <6983f1a2-77bd-c575-9b6d-60d6e9cc3fd4@threeboysfarm.com>
Message-ID: <1465629573.1392648.1601729232940@mail.yahoo.com>

 Since the minimum voltage required to turn the relays on is 3 volts wiring them in series will work also.? If they are the same model relay they should share the voltage and, by definition, receive the same current and they will both turn on.
Either configuration, series or parallel, will work provided the parallel configuration doesn't require more current than the controller can provide.
 
Dave 

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com>
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Sent: Sat, Oct 3, 2020 1:55 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Two SSRs from one PID controller

Short answer: yes, you can run them successfully in parallel. The PID 
relay control output puts out 12V at up to 30mA.? The relays turn on 
with a minimum of 3V (max 32V) applied, and at a low current.? So 12V is 
good (more than 3, less than 32), and the only issue is if 30mA, or 15mA 
per relay, is enough to trigger it. And it is.? This particular one does 
not spec the current to turn on but I looked at one from a 'real' 
supplier (Omega) and they spec a max of 14mA (and it's only that high 
because there is an LED in their relay showing that it is on).? Think 
about plugging two lamps into a wall outlet: it's fine as long as you do 
not draw too many amps - you have 15 or 20A max.? 2 lights? OK (less 
than an amp each).? 2 toaster ovens? Not so good (12-14 amps each). 
These are more lampish.? The output of the relays are where the large 
power will be controlled (which is why you use the relays).

Regards,

Mark Miller? 707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com

On 10/2/2020 11:00 AM, shop-talk-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 7:10 PM <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:
>> I want to operate two solid-state relays simultaneously (one for a 110V circuit, the other for 220V) from a single PID. I had thought I would just wire them in parallel from the PID, but a bit of poking around the interwebs suggests otherwise. So I sketched up this drawing for two SSRs in series with a PID. Does this look correct for this situation? Any suggestions appreciated!
>>
>> (I'm a chemist, so I understand electron flow and related, but I trust this little Shop Talk community more than I trust my electrical intuition!)
>> Thanks!!!
>>? Lee
>>
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
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From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sat Oct  3 08:44:52 2020
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 10:44:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spiders!
Message-ID: <29F32CE2-F2C8-4CD3-BFE9-2F7C3938AC2A@groupwbench.org>

My house is a split entry, and the "basement" has been finished. The left 1/3 is the garage and I've sealed it off as best I can from the other 2/3, but spiders are still getting in. Hundreds. Every time I vacuum them all up, it scatters the ones that were hiding and seems to breed more. 

The "basement" is ground level out front and about 2-3 feet underground in back. There is 4' of foundation wall and 4' of stud wall. It isn't completely finished so there are probably a few small holes where things can crawl under the siding, through the wall and into the basement. I certainly expect a few spiders but this is ridiculous. They are all the same 2 types - a very tiny gray one and a 1.5" gray one. I thought they might be reproducing faster than I could vacuum them but I read it takes a year for them to hit reproductive age. 

I'm in MA, in the suburbs, and this house was not cleaned for the 40 years the previous owner lived in it. I've been in it for 2 years. Could I still be dealing with his infestation or are they coming from somewhere else? Most importantly how do I stop them? I almost can't have people over. They are in every corner of every room. I'd rather implent physical measures than chemical. 

As an afterthought, oddly the garage doesn't have that many. Maybe an average number. 

thanks,
jim

From miq at bigllama.com  Sat Oct  3 09:56:39 2020
From: miq at bigllama.com (Miq Millman)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 08:56:39 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
Message-ID: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>

Here's what I want to do:

Drill a 23/32' hole in the side of the oil pan for the (1/2 NPT-AN10 steel
braided line that allows the oil from the turbo back into the block.  I
have the NPT tap ready.

Here are the complications:

1) pan is bolted and sealed to the block -- I would rather not remove it
2) oil pan is aluminum not steel
3) there is already a threaded hole for 3/8 NPT
4) engine is newly built long block, with most of the ancillaries still to
be attached, on an engine stand.
5) there is an additional hole on the opposite side of the pan for an oil
temp sensor

Here is what I am thinking:

1) coat the drill bit in some red grease to collect aluminum shavings
2) seal off water and vacuum passages with tape
3) set air compressor to something very low, like 20 psi, and thread into
the oil sensor hole (1/8 NPT)
4) fabricobble up a reduced hose to the shop vac line and point that at the
drilling point
5) drill in short bursts, possibly cleaning the bit and grease each time,
and reapplying grease
6) after I tap the hole (also a challenge due to the length of the tap and
the baffle inside the pan) dump 5-6 quarts of the cheapest 10 w oil at the
FLAPS and kind of "slosh" it around by slightly rotating the engine on the
stand, drain and repeat again
7) check second pot of drained oil for metal shavings, if found try gas or
diesel followed by 3rd round of cheap oil flush

Open to options and opinions.  Including telling me not to be an idiot with
my $8000 engine and just pull the pan.

--
__
Miq Millman   miq at bigllama.com
Tualatin, OR  Big Llama Productions
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From bspidell at comcast.net  Sat Oct  3 09:59:24 2020
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 08:59:24 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spiders!
In-Reply-To: <29F32CE2-F2C8-4CD3-BFE9-2F7C3938AC2A@groupwbench.org>
References: <29F32CE2-F2C8-4CD3-BFE9-2F7C3938AC2A@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <c7ca5c02-6851-4f27-04a8-b83975a0291a@comcast.net>

My mom lives in the country, so we gets lots of all kinds of bugs, 
including black widow spiders. I tried a 'wasp & hornet' spray on a BW 
the other day, and it zapped her good (dunno if you'd want to use it in 
the house, though; maybe if you get desperate). Most spiders, I think, 
are carnivorous, feasting on other beasties, so if you can remove the 
food sources they sometimes pack up and move. I sprayed 
diazinon--remarkably, I think it's still available in California--the 
other day on a cockroach infestation, and it knocked them back pretty 
good (at least for a while).

On 10/3/2020 7:44 AM, Jim Franklin wrote:
> My house is a split entry, and the "basement" has been finished. The left 1/3 is the garage and I've sealed it off as best I can from the other 2/3, but spiders are still getting in. Hundreds. Every time I vacuum them all up, it scatters the ones that were hiding and seems to breed more.
>
> The "basement" is ground level out front and about 2-3 feet underground in back. There is 4' of foundation wall and 4' of stud wall. It isn't completely finished so there are probably a few small holes where things can crawl under the siding, through the wall and into the basement. I certainly expect a few spiders but this is ridiculous. They are all the same 2 types - a very tiny gray one and a 1.5" gray one. I thought they might be reproducing faster than I could vacuum them but I read it takes a year for them to hit reproductive age.
>
> I'm in MA, in the suburbs, and this house was not cleaned for the 40 years the previous owner lived in it. I've been in it for 2 years. Could I still be dealing with his infestation or are they coming from somewhere else? Most importantly how do I stop them? I almost can't have people over. They are in every corner of every room. I'd rather implent physical measures than chemical.
>
> As an afterthought, oddly the garage doesn't have that many. Maybe an average number.
>
> thanks,
> jim
>


From bspidell at comcast.net  Sat Oct  3 10:02:21 2020
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 09:02:21 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
In-Reply-To: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7e665640-2c55-57ee-85ce-531dc1579fbd@comcast.net>

"... not to be an idiot with my $8000 engine and just pull the pan"

I think you answered your own question; you'll sleep better at night.


On 10/3/2020 8:56 AM, Miq Millman wrote:
> Here's what I want to do:
>
> Drill a 23/32' hole in the side of the oil pan for the (1/2 NPT-AN10 
> steel braided line that allows the oil from the turbo back into the 
> block.? I have the NPT tap ready.
>
> Here are the complications:
>
> 1) pan is bolted and sealed to the block -- I would rather not remove it
> 2) oil pan is aluminum not steel
> 3) there is already a threaded hole for 3/8 NPT
> 4) engine is newly built long block, with most of the ancillaries 
> still to be attached, on an engine stand.
> 5) there is an additional hole on the opposite side of the pan for an 
> oil temp sensor
>
> Here is what I am thinking:
>
> 1) coat the drill bit in some red grease to collect aluminum shavings
> 2) seal off water and vacuum?passages with tape
> 3) set air compressor to something very low, like 20 psi, and thread 
> into the oil sensor hole (1/8 NPT)
> 4) fabricobble up a reduced hose to the shop vac line and point that 
> at the drilling point
> 5) drill in short bursts, possibly cleaning the bit and grease each 
> time, and reapplying grease
> 6) after I tap the hole (also a challenge due to the length of the tap 
> and the baffle inside the pan) dump 5-6 quarts of the cheapest 10 w 
> oil at the FLAPS and kind of "slosh" it around by slightly rotating 
> the engine on the stand, drain and repeat again
> 7) check second pot of drained oil for metal shavings, if found try 
> gas or diesel followed by 3rd round of cheap oil flush
>
> Open to options and opinions.? Including telling me not to be an idiot 
> with my $8000 engine and just pull the pan.
>
>


From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sat Oct  3 10:08:56 2020
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 12:08:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
In-Reply-To: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E42764A1-EBA0-4ECB-A6E0-BF1B3E4BB859@groupwbench.org>



> On Oct 3, 2020, at 11:56 AM, Miq Millman <miq at bigllama.com> wrote:
> 
> Here's what I want to do:
> 
> [...]
> 
> Open to options and opinions. 

Sounds like a good plan to me. Any residual aluminum shavings will get caught by the screen and filter along with all the other shavings from a new motor. I wouldn't bother with removing the pan except that I could then mount it in a press and stop the drill bit from grabbing the material as it breaks through and pulling itself into the baffles. 

jim


From dhlocker at comcast.net  Sat Oct  3 10:14:50 2020
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 12:14:50 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
In-Reply-To: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a02d392-77f3-aa9c-272c-377d74809b0d@comcast.net>

I agree with what Bob said.

Engine's on a stand, so it is accessible. And it sounds like the
alternative you've conceived is far more complex than dropping the pan.
Ask yourself what you'd do if you were the machine shop you trusted with
that sweet lump.

Donald.

*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ <https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>

On 2020-10-03 11:56 a.m., Miq Millman wrote:
> Here's what I want to do:
> 
> Drill a 23/32' hole in the side of the oil pan for the (1/2 NPT-AN10
> steel braided line that allows the oil from the turbo back into the
> block.? I have the NPT tap ready.
> 
> Here are the complications:
> 
> 1) pan is bolted and sealed to the block -- I would rather not remove it
> 2) oil pan is aluminum not steel
> 3) there is already a threaded hole for 3/8 NPT
> 4) engine is newly built long block, with most of the ancillaries still
> to be attached, on an engine stand.
> 5) there is an additional hole on the opposite side of the pan for an
> oil temp sensor
> 
> Here is what I am thinking:
> 
> 1) coat the drill bit in some red grease to collect aluminum shavings
> 2) seal off water and vacuum?passages with tape
> 3) set air compressor to something very low, like 20 psi, and thread
> into the oil sensor hole (1/8 NPT)
> 4) fabricobble up a reduced hose to the shop vac line and point that at
> the drilling point
> 5) drill in short bursts, possibly cleaning the bit and grease each
> time, and reapplying grease
> 6) after I tap the hole (also a challenge due to the length of the tap
> and the baffle inside the pan) dump 5-6 quarts of the cheapest 10 w oil
> at the FLAPS and kind of "slosh" it around by slightly rotating the
> engine on the stand, drain and repeat again
> 7) check second pot of drained oil for metal shavings, if found try gas
> or diesel followed by 3rd round of cheap oil flush
> 
> Open to options and opinions.? Including telling me not to be an idiot
> with my $8000 engine and just pull the pan.
> 
> --
> __
> Miq Millman?? miq at bigllama.com <mailto:miq at bigllama.com>
> Tualatin, OR? Big Llama Productions
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net
> 

From JIBrooks at live.com  Sat Oct  3 10:27:42 2020
From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 16:27:42 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spiders!
In-Reply-To: <c7ca5c02-6851-4f27-04a8-b83975a0291a@comcast.net>
References: <29F32CE2-F2C8-4CD3-BFE9-2F7C3938AC2A@groupwbench.org>
 <c7ca5c02-6851-4f27-04a8-b83975a0291a@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <MWHPR06MB315179B8C6BFC49A76153E98A80E0@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

I've had good success with killing crawling things using "Bayer Polyzone Suspend".  It leaves a "film"? that stays active for months, inside and outside that bugs pick up when they move through it.

I spray three buildings 2-3 times a year and manage to keep most of the critters from taking over.  You could spray the outside foundations and inside too in the traffic areas.  Another key is making sure no plants provide a bridge to the house too, so they have to crawl through the Polyzone barrier.

Wear a mask for application, but once dry, 30 minutes or so, it's safe in inhabited areas. 

Jack

On 10/3/2020 7:44 AM, Jim Franklin wrote:
> My house is a split entry, and the "basement" has been finished. The left 1/3 is the garage and I've sealed it off as best I can from the other 2/3, but spiders are still getting in. Hundreds. Every time I vacuum them all up, it scatters the ones that were hiding and seems to breed more.
>
> The "basement" is ground level out front and about 2-3 feet underground in back. There is 4' of foundation wall and 4' of stud wall. It isn't completely finished so there are probably a few small holes where things can crawl under the siding, through the wall and into the basement. I certainly expect a few spiders but this is ridiculous. They are all the same 2 types - a very tiny gray one and a 1.5" gray one. I thought they might be reproducing faster than I could vacuum them but I read it takes a year for them to hit reproductive age.
>
> I'm in MA, in the suburbs, and this house was not cleaned for the 40 years the previous owner lived in it. I've been in it for 2 years. Could I still be dealing with his infestation or are they coming from somewhere else? Most importantly how do I stop them? I almost can't have people over. They are in every corner of every room. I'd rather implent physical measures than chemical.
>
> As an afterthought, oddly the garage doesn't have that many. Maybe an average number.
>
> thanks,
> jim
>

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From JIBrooks at live.com  Sat Oct  3 10:31:42 2020
From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 16:31:42 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] ohms law stuff
In-Reply-To: <C97C5D6F-AB12-4026-B6ED-A5F915CD54A9@icloud.com>
References: <1UWGdH2HYC.7Vj9rDIheBs@johns-desktop>
 <C97C5D6F-AB12-4026-B6ED-A5F915CD54A9@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR06MB3151FEA21D0643F298D576D8A80E0@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

I like this DC wire calculator.

http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Pat Horne
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 3:20 PM
To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] ohms law stuff

Oh, I just noticed that the max current shows to be 76A. Sounds like you should go with #4, #6 minimum. 

Google ?copper wire ampacity chart?.

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Sep 26, 2020, at 5:01 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
Pat, the fuse on the input size is 15 amp  so #12 is still acceptable
Jim, here's the specs
<specx.jpg>
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
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_______________________________________________

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From ronnie.day at gmail.com  Sat Oct  3 10:36:46 2020
From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 11:36:46 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
In-Reply-To: <7a02d392-77f3-aa9c-272c-377d74809b0d@comcast.net>
References: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7a02d392-77f3-aa9c-272c-377d74809b0d@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAMHhs6eiS+Zv9iPS5AqLAPLFXFFLEzR--yOwziDmU_vQmNEmbQ@mail.gmail.com>

IMO, the risks definitely aren't worth the time save! Do it the smart, safe
way, pull the pan!

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 11:21 AM Donald H Locker <dhlocker at comcast.net>
wrote:

> I agree with what Bob said.
>
> Engine's on a stand, so it is accessible. And it sounds like the
> alternative you've conceived is far more complex than dropping the pan.
> Ask yourself what you'd do if you were the machine shop you trusted with
> that sweet lump.
>
> Donald.
>
> *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
> () no proprietary attachments; no html mail
> /\ <https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>
>
> On 2020-10-03 11:56 a.m., Miq Millman wrote:
> > Here's what I want to do:
> >
> > Drill a 23/32' hole in the side of the oil pan for the (1/2 NPT-AN10
> > steel braided line that allows the oil from the turbo back into the
> > block.  I have the NPT tap ready.
> >
> > Here are the complications:
> >
> > 1) pan is bolted and sealed to the block -- I would rather not remove it
> > 2) oil pan is aluminum not steel
> > 3) there is already a threaded hole for 3/8 NPT
> > 4) engine is newly built long block, with most of the ancillaries still
> > to be attached, on an engine stand.
> > 5) there is an additional hole on the opposite side of the pan for an
> > oil temp sensor
> >
> > Here is what I am thinking:
> >
> > 1) coat the drill bit in some red grease to collect aluminum shavings
> > 2) seal off water and vacuum passages with tape
> > 3) set air compressor to something very low, like 20 psi, and thread
> > into the oil sensor hole (1/8 NPT)
> > 4) fabricobble up a reduced hose to the shop vac line and point that at
> > the drilling point
> > 5) drill in short bursts, possibly cleaning the bit and grease each
> > time, and reapplying grease
> > 6) after I tap the hole (also a challenge due to the length of the tap
> > and the baffle inside the pan) dump 5-6 quarts of the cheapest 10 w oil
> > at the FLAPS and kind of "slosh" it around by slightly rotating the
> > engine on the stand, drain and repeat again
> > 7) check second pot of drained oil for metal shavings, if found try gas
> > or diesel followed by 3rd round of cheap oil flush
> >
> > Open to options and opinions.  Including telling me not to be an idiot
> > with my $8000 engine and just pull the pan.
> >
> > --
> > __
> > Miq Millman   miq at bigllama.com <mailto:miq at bigllama.com>
> > Tualatin, OR  Big Llama Productions
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com
>
>
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From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Sat Oct  3 17:08:48 2020
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 16:08:48 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2198.1601743045.3214.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.2198.1601743045.3214.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <71d9750d-7643-9c53-3ed4-bfbe6f3e00e5@threeboysfarm.com>

Personally I try to avoid any possibility of having to call myself an 
idiot after I do something that in retrospect seems questionable 
enough.? But you do you.

That said: do you actually need a 1/2" return line for the oil? Will 
running the line into the existing 3/8" port via a reducer still give 
you sufficient flow? That would be way simpler.

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com


> On 2020-10-03 11:56 a.m., Miq Millman wrote:
>> Here's what I want to do:
>>
>> Drill a 23/32' hole in the side of the oil pan for the (1/2 NPT-AN10
>> steel braided line that allows the oil from the turbo back into the
>> block.? I have the NPT tap ready.
>>
>> Here are the complications:
>>
>> 1) pan is bolted and sealed to the block -- I would rather not remove it
>> 2) oil pan is aluminum not steel
>> 3) there is already a threaded hole for 3/8 NPT
>> 4) engine is newly built long block, with most of the ancillaries still
>> to be attached, on an engine stand.
>> 5) there is an additional hole on the opposite side of the pan for an
>> oil temp sensor
>>
>> Here is what I am thinking:
>>
>> 1) coat the drill bit in some red grease to collect aluminum shavings
>> 2) seal off water and vacuum?passages with tape
>> 3) set air compressor to something very low, like 20 psi, and thread
>> into the oil sensor hole (1/8 NPT)
>> 4) fabricobble up a reduced hose to the shop vac line and point that at
>> the drilling point
>> 5) drill in short bursts, possibly cleaning the bit and grease each
>> time, and reapplying grease
>> 6) after I tap the hole (also a challenge due to the length of the tap
>> and the baffle inside the pan) dump 5-6 quarts of the cheapest 10 w oil
>> at the FLAPS and kind of "slosh" it around by slightly rotating the
>> engine on the stand, drain and repeat again
>> 7) check second pot of drained oil for metal shavings, if found try gas
>> or diesel followed by 3rd round of cheap oil flush
>>
>> Open to options and opinions.? Including telling me not to be an idiot
>> with my $8000 engine and just pull the pan.
>>
>> --
>> __
>> Miq Millman?? miq at bigllama.com <mailto:miq at bigllama.com>
>> Tualatin, OR? Big Llama Productions
>>
>>

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  4 20:41:37 2020
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2020 19:41:37 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spiders!
In-Reply-To: <29F32CE2-F2C8-4CD3-BFE9-2F7C3938AC2A@groupwbench.org>
References: <29F32CE2-F2C8-4CD3-BFE9-2F7C3938AC2A@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <bbf93be7-8bce-a46c-ac6a-bf1cf9522b53@earthlink.net>

Jim - Had an ant invasion and used this:

https://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/taurus-sc-insecticide

 From the page above:? In addition to termite control, Taurus SC 
controls a wide variety of insects including ants, roaches, centipedes, 
spiders, millipedes, ticks, and many more. It is labeled for barrier 
applications that target occasional invaders around structures.

Mixed it in a garden sprayer and soaked around the house perimeter about 
2 months ago.? No ants since.

The same seller sells it on Amazon, so you can read more reviews there.? 
I'd rather profit go to the sellers, so I ordered direct from the link 
above.

Note that the directions say a severe treatment is only 1.2oz per gallon 
of water.? I used two gallons to go around the house and garage.

Brian

On 10/3/2020 7:44 AM, Jim Franklin wrote:
> My house is a split entry, and the "basement" has been finished. The left 1/3 is the garage and I've sealed it off as best I can from the other 2/3, but spiders are still getting in. Hundreds. Every time I vacuum them all up, it scatters the ones that were hiding and seems to breed more.
>
> The "basement" is ground level out front and about 2-3 feet underground in back. There is 4' of foundation wall and 4' of stud wall. It isn't completely finished so there are probably a few small holes where things can crawl under the siding, through the wall and into the basement. I certainly expect a few spiders but this is ridiculous. They are all the same 2 types - a very tiny gray one and a 1.5" gray one. I thought they might be reproducing faster than I could vacuum them but I read it takes a year for them to hit reproductive age.
>
> I'm in MA, in the suburbs, and this house was not cleaned for the 40 years the previous owner lived in it. I've been in it for 2 years. Could I still be dealing with his infestation or are they coming from somewhere else? Most importantly how do I stop them? I almost can't have people over. They are in every corner of every room. I'd rather implent physical measures than chemical.
>
> As an afterthought, oddly the garage doesn't have that many. Maybe an average number.
>
> thanks,
> jim
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>


From bk13 at earthlink.net  Sun Oct  4 20:47:17 2020
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2020 19:47:17 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
In-Reply-To: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b0b9ba0a-b98b-9f33-7526-fd0c035363e5@earthlink.net>

If you need the hole, I'd pull the pan.? As someone already said - what 
would you say about a shop that left shavings in your new engine?

Don't know the flow rate of oil from the turbo, but how close is AN10 to 
3/8 NPT.? A quick search shows Summit has a connector for the two:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-26006

I'd try and go simple since this look a similar size in the picture at 
the link above.

Brian

On 10/3/2020 8:56 AM, Miq Millman wrote:
> Here's what I want to do:
>
> Drill a 23/32' hole in the side of the oil pan for the (1/2 NPT-AN10 
> steel braided line that allows the oil from the turbo back into the 
> block.? I have the NPT tap ready.
>
> Here are the complications:
>
> 1) pan is bolted and sealed to the block -- I would rather not remove it
> 2) oil pan is aluminum not steel
> 3) there is already a threaded hole for 3/8 NPT
> 4) engine is newly built long block, with most of the ancillaries 
> still to be attached, on an engine stand.
> 5) there is an additional hole on the opposite side of the pan for an 
> oil temp sensor
>
> Here is what I am thinking:
>
> 1) coat the drill bit in some red grease to collect aluminum shavings
> 2) seal off water and vacuum?passages with tape
> 3) set air compressor to something very low, like 20 psi, and thread 
> into the oil sensor hole (1/8 NPT)
> 4) fabricobble up a reduced hose to the shop vac line and point that 
> at the drilling point
> 5) drill in short bursts, possibly cleaning the bit and grease each 
> time, and reapplying grease
> 6) after I tap the hole (also a challenge due to the length of the tap 
> and the baffle inside the pan) dump 5-6 quarts of the cheapest 10 w 
> oil at the FLAPS and kind of "slosh" it around by slightly rotating 
> the engine on the stand, drain and repeat again
> 7) check second pot of drained oil for metal shavings, if found try 
> gas or diesel followed by 3rd round of cheap oil flush
>
> Open to options and opinions.? Including telling me not to be an idiot 
> with my $8000 engine and just pull the pan.
>
> --
> __
> Miq Millman miq at bigllama.com <mailto:miq at bigllama.com>
> Tualatin, OR? Big Llama Productions
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>

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From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Mon Oct  5 14:41:52 2020
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2020 16:41:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Clip-on outdoor wireless camera?
Message-ID: <D23085D4-EB2C-46D5-BBE4-DB19B87761EA@groupwbench.org>

I need to see what the woodpeckers are pecking on, or burrowing in, since they fly away "wasn't us!" when I go outside.

I can't find a camera that I can clip on to something (the gutter in this case) that also has wireless and is weatherproof. I thought maybe someone here would have come across needing the same requirements. 

thanks,
jim

From miq at bigllama.com  Mon Oct  5 15:29:00 2020
From: miq at bigllama.com (Miq Millman)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2020 14:29:00 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
In-Reply-To: <b0b9ba0a-b98b-9f33-7526-fd0c035363e5@earthlink.net>
References: <CALUbS3Gj1RSWwLj6TSeSY8pCfAZUa8Z3znhBZChuV-+H0qHEUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b0b9ba0a-b98b-9f33-7526-fd0c035363e5@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CALUbS3E2EVN93kAMu-cwzLA8o-MqRujsHvyMPtYhsEciYoV6vg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the feedback.

I ended up pulling the pan and windage tray and drilling / tapping the hole
for the 1/2 NPT.

Bonus: by pulling the oil pan  I could apply ultra grey rtv on the inside
threads of the adapter as well as the outside.

I'm using AN10 hose because previously the AN8 was causing too much oil to
stay in the turbo housing...which probably was due to switching to a high
volume billet oil pump.

As far as my "short cut method" -- that's what is in the instructions for
Flyin'Miata turbo installs (
https://www.flyinmiata.com/support/instructions/turbos/all_turbos.pdf, see
page 12).  No idea how many kits Bill has sold over the years, but I'd
guess it's in the multiple 1000's range.

Kinda wish I had access to a tig welder then could have welded up the drain
properly overkill....


--
__
Miq Millman   miq at bigllama.com
Tualatin, OR  Big Llama Productions
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From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  6 06:14:57 2020
From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:14:57 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Clip-on outdoor wireless camera?
In-Reply-To: <D23085D4-EB2C-46D5-BBE4-DB19B87761EA@groupwbench.org>
References: <D23085D4-EB2C-46D5-BBE4-DB19B87761EA@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <MN2PR11MB431846D2C5727CDDE6B1396F9A0D0@MN2PR11MB4318.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

I have one of these https://wyze.com/wyze-cam-outdoor.html and while it doesn't "clip on" it operates for quite awhile on its battery, has motion detection, is waterproof and has a good resolution, probably great for a "trail cam" of sorts.  There might be cheaper options out there though.
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Jim Franklin <jamesf at groupwbench.org>
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 4:41 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Clip-on outdoor wireless camera?

I need to see what the woodpeckers are pecking on, or burrowing in, since they fly away "wasn't us!" when I go outside.

I can't find a camera that I can clip on to something (the gutter in this case) that also has wireless and is weatherproof. I thought maybe someone here would have come across needing the same requirements.

thanks,
jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From eric at megageek.com  Tue Oct  6 07:36:40 2020
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 09:36:40 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Mason jar treads in wood?
Message-ID: <OF82F30A85.2F999587-ON852585F9.004A9B0C-852585F9.004AC511@mail.megageek.com>

Does anyone know of a tap that can tread mason jar thread pitch?  (I only 
need to do it in wood.)  So I can thread a mason jar into a piece of wood.

I have a great project idea, but I can't find a tool to do this.

Thanks in advance.


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 
-Who is John Galt?
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Tue Oct  6 07:43:56 2020
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 08:43:56 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Mason jar treads in wood?
In-Reply-To: <OF82F30A85.2F999587-ON852585F9.004A9B0C-852585F9.004AC511@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF82F30A85.2F999587-ON852585F9.004A9B0C-852585F9.004AC511@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <D397530C-588D-4810-B522-7B918DD15F58@icloud.com>

Never heard of a tap for that. Shouldn?t be that hard to make from a wood mandrel & a metal cutter. If you are just tapping a blind hole I doubt a tap will work. 

If it is a through hole you could cut the top off the lids & secure that into the hole. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Oct 6, 2020, at 8:38 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:

?Does anyone know of a tap that can tread mason jar thread pitch?  (I only need to do it in wood.)  So I can thread a mason jar into a piece of wood. 

I have a great project idea, but I can't find a tool to do this. 

Thanks in advance. 


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson 
-Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Tue Oct  6 07:51:52 2020
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 08:51:52 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Mason jar treads in wood?
In-Reply-To: <OF82F30A85.2F999587-ON852585F9.004A9B0C-852585F9.004AC511@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF82F30A85.2F999587-ON852585F9.004A9B0C-852585F9.004AC511@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YCKbnUWnb_C8F=WFzMXzCwAMdaD_ZxOFP3aU=qGUoPBNQ@mail.gmail.com>

I do not have the exact solution you are looking for, but I might have an
alternative.  When we wanted to do something similar (making a small parts
sorter from baby food jars) we drilled a recess into the wood with a
forstner bit and screwed a jar lid into the recess in the wood (lesson
learned, use two screws so the lid can't spin).  The lid provided the
necessary threads and the recess in the wood hid the lid, so that it looked
like the jars were screwed directly into the wood.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 8:38 AM <eric at megageek.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know of a tap that can tread mason jar thread pitch?  (I only
> need to do it in wood.)  So I can thread a mason jar into a piece of wood.
>
> I have a great project idea, but I can't find a tool to do this.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph
> Waldo Emerson
> -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From eric at megageek.com  Tue Oct  6 08:13:45 2020
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 10:13:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma consumables
Message-ID: <OFD4982A9B.50787536-ON852585F9.004DF0AB-852585F9.004E29F7@mail.megageek.com>

With everyone's agreement that we don't need to make Jeff Bazos richer, 
where do you get Hyperthem consumables from?  Anyone have a good source?

BTW, I just got a Powermax 45XP and this is the cat's meow!  It cuts 1/2" 
AL like butter.  No piece of scrap metal is safe in my shop now!  8>)


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 
-Who is John Galt?
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From JIBrooks at live.com  Tue Oct  6 12:19:27 2020
From: JIBrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 18:19:27 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Clip-on outdoor wireless camera?
In-Reply-To: <D23085D4-EB2C-46D5-BBE4-DB19B87761EA@groupwbench.org>
References: <D23085D4-EB2C-46D5-BBE4-DB19B87761EA@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <BN6PR06MB31406CE518814FCAB5B1898FA80D0@BN6PR06MB3140.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

If your woodpeckers are like mine, they enlarged the "Birdhole" vents which provide ventilation to the attic and made a nest just inside the hole.  They beat on the screening until it let go and also damaged the area around the hole quite a bit.  I got into the attic, cleaned up the nest detritus and reattached the screening with a multitude of long staples.  Hopefully that will hold.  

Be aggressive with countermeasures. We have an airsoft gun ready.  We don't want to injure them, as just the sound of the pellets hitting nearby, makes them fly away.  We may also have an older water based fire extinguisher which will be filled and primed when/if they come back, maybe with some Cayenne power dissolved in the water as an "After Deterrent". 

If you keep going out, they will start getting comfortable and not fly away, do you probably don't need a camera.  If you have binoculars you will find the damage.  Don't wait.  Discourage them ASAP.  They will cause damage and if nesting may be a protected species. 

Jack
Washington State

-----Original Message-----
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jim Franklin
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 1:42 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Clip-on outdoor wireless camera?

I need to see what the woodpeckers are pecking on, or burrowing in, since they fly away "wasn't us!" when I go outside.

I can't find a camera that I can clip on to something (the gutter in this case) that also has wireless and is weatherproof. I thought maybe someone here would have come across needing the same requirements. 

thanks,
jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks at live.com


From hillman at planet-torque.com  Tue Oct  6 12:38:12 2020
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 14:38:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma consumables
In-Reply-To: <OFD4982A9B.50787536-ON852585F9.004DF0AB-852585F9.004E29F7@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFD4982A9B.50787536-ON852585F9.004DF0AB-852585F9.004E29F7@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.20.16.2010061356510.47183@www570.pair.com>

On Tue, 6 Oct 2020, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> With everyone's agreement that we don't need to make Jeff Bazos richer,
> where do you get Hyperthem consumables from?  Anyone have a good source?

    Usually HTP America or EWS.

https://usaweld.com/pages/plasma_cutting_parts
https://weldingsupply.com/

    Both are local to me, which is an advantage.  Years ago, I bought a big 
assortment of consumables for my Thermal Dynamics plasma from one or the 
other, so I haven't had to buy any since, and won't for years.  This is 
the way to go.

    It can be hard to find things on EWS' charmingly-vintage web store, 
and they don't seem to have the kits I bought anymore, but they do have a 
couple options.

    Indiana Oxygen has some, too.

https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/hypertherm-powermax-45-consumables-kit-851478


--
  David Hillman

From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Tue Oct  6 13:39:18 2020
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 19:39:18 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get another used one, move the license, etc etc.

This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there.

Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year. What a crock...er, I mean racket.

I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused.

One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word.

Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my garage shop and my basement shop.

Thanks all
tim
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From bspidell at comcast.net  Tue Oct  6 13:46:44 2020
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:46:44 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <20039C04-C67D-4CDC-9B7F-B99F6A431836@comcast.net>

Look into ?OpenOffice.? It?s open source/shareware ... it has Word and Excel equivalents (dunno about pdf export though).


> On Oct 6, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get another used one, move the license, etc etc. 
> 
> This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there. 
> 
> Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year. What a crock...er, I mean racket. 
> 
> I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused. 
> 
> One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word. 
> 
> Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my garage shop and my basement shop. 
> 
> Thanks all
> tim
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
> 
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From marka at maracing.com  Tue Oct  6 13:52:09 2020
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 15:52:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAAoSWGM2Nw4O1YwrGiSPh7AH4XOqa+_qjV7O74Bxbxe4_Bn+jA@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy,

Take a look at Libre Office.  It's one of the main free/open source
solutions that are out there.  Been using it for years at home because I'm
too cheap to buy MS Office stuff like I use at work.  Comparing the two,
its very, very rare that I run into something I do at work in MS Office
that I struggle with in Libre Office.

Another choice might be Google Docs.  More of a cloud thing, but if you're
already in the Google universe and particularly if you have ChromeBooks for
stuff, Google Docs is pretty solid.  Again, for generic / standard use,
that should do everything you need it to.

Both will certainly print things to a PDF.  :)

Mark

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 3:41 PM Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:

> Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products
> suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get
> another used one, move the license, etc etc.
>
> This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there.
>
> Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against
> buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they
> are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year.
> What a crock...er, I mean racket.
>
> I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused.
>
> One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving
> it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff
> has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word.
>
> Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my
> garage shop and my basement shop.
>
> Thanks all
> tim
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com
>
>
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From hillman at planet-torque.com  Tue Oct  6 13:53:26 2020
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 15:53:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.20.16.2010061548360.47183@www570.pair.com>

On Tue, 6 Oct 2020, Tim . wrote:
> One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then 
> saving it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open 
> source stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word.

    If that's all you need, no problem.  Attached is a PDF of an invoice 
template that I just exported from Apache Open Office on Windows 10.  If 
your needs are just basic "office" functions, Open Office should be more 
than sufficient.

https://www.openoffice.org/

--
  David Hillman
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From tvacc at lotusowners.com  Tue Oct  6 13:59:37 2020
From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 15:59:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <20039C04-C67D-4CDC-9B7F-B99F6A431836@comcast.net>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <20039C04-C67D-4CDC-9B7F-B99F6A431836@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002501d69c1b$38c9fd20$aa5df760$@lotusowners.com>

This is the business I am in.  Use www.libreoffice.org <http://www.libreoffice.org>  for the office suite and use www.foxitsoftware.com <http://www.foxitsoftware.com>  for the free pdf reader.

And just as an aside, ESET.com is the best anti-virus software out there.  Not free, but it is the best.

Tony V

 

Anthony Vaccaro

President 

Lotus Owners of New York (LOONY)

 <http://www.lotusowners.com> http://www.lotusowners.com

President

Lotus Ltd

 <http://www.lotusltd.com/> http://www.lotusltd.com



 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Bob Spidell
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2020 3:47 PM
To: Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Cc: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] software

 

Look into ?OpenOffice.? It?s open source/shareware ... it has Word and Excel equivalents (dunno about pdf export though).

 





On Oct 6, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com <mailto:tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> > wrote:

? 

Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get another used one, move the license, etc etc. 

 

This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there. 

 

Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year. What a crock...er, I mean racket. 

 

I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused. 

 

One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word. 

 

Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my garage shop and my basement shop. 

 

Thanks all

tim

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net> 
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net

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From jnew at hazelden.ca  Tue Oct  6 14:07:11 2020
From: jnew at hazelden.ca (John P. New)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 16:07:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2040981.irdbgypaU6@johnpc>

LibreOffice (libreoffice.org) is what I use daily and have been for almost the past decade (when it forked from OpenOffice, which I had been using the decade before that).

Aside from some formatting differences, a Microsoft file will open in LibreOffice; files produced in LibreOffice will open in Microsoft's software. LibreOffice exports to .pdf format.

Don't use OpenOffice; it has had security issues and a lack of development over the past 5 years or so, and a new version hasn't been released in over a year (one sign that it heading for irrelevance).

John New
London, Ontario, Canada

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 3:39:18 PM EDT Tim . wrote:
> Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get another used one, move the license, etc etc.
> 
> This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there.
> 
> Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year. What a crock...er, I mean racket.
> 
> I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused.
> 
> One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word.
> 
> Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my garage shop and my basement shop.
> 
> Thanks all
> tim
> 





From lspector at gmail.com  Tue Oct  6 14:29:21 2020
From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 16:29:21 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <002501d69c1b$38c9fd20$aa5df760$@lotusowners.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <20039C04-C67D-4CDC-9B7F-B99F6A431836@comcast.net>
 <002501d69c1b$38c9fd20$aa5df760$@lotusowners.com>
Message-ID: <CAFNB6WnS3UzD4oQ10tt3y0sSQDWN7CCCAmrY0miYWof0OCAB4A@mail.gmail.com>

Have you looked at using the Google Suite tools? I use Google Sheets (Excel
clone) and Google Docs (Word clone) and while not as full featured, they do
the trick for my purposes. Both allow you download as .pdf files.

-Larry

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 4:17 PM Tony Vaccaro <tvacc at lotusowners.com> wrote:

> This is the business I am in.  Use www.libreoffice.org for the office
> suite and use www.foxitsoftware.com for the free pdf reader.
>
> And just as an aside, ESET.com is the best anti-virus software out there.
> Not free, but it is the best.
>
> Tony V
>
>
>
> Anthony Vaccaro
>
> President
>
> Lotus Owners of New York (LOONY)
>
> *http://www.lotusowners.com <http://www.lotusowners.com>*
>
> President
>
> Lotus Ltd
>
> *http://www.lotusltd.com <http://www.lotusltd.com/>*
>
>
>
> *From:* Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Bob
> Spidell
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 06, 2020 3:47 PM
> *To:* Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
> *Cc:* Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] software
>
>
>
> Look into ?OpenOffice.? It?s open source/shareware ... it has Word and
> Excel equivalents (dunno about pdf export though).
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 6, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products
> suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get
> another used one, move the license, etc etc.
>
>
>
> This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there.
>
>
>
> Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against
> buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they
> are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year.
> What a crock...er, I mean racket.
>
>
>
> I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused.
>
>
>
> One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving
> it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff
> has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word.
>
>
>
> Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my
> garage shop and my basement shop.
>
>
>
> Thanks all
>
> tim
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lspector at gmail.com
>
>
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From 1789alpine at gmail.com  Tue Oct  6 14:56:12 2020
From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 16:56:12 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <CAFNB6WnS3UzD4oQ10tt3y0sSQDWN7CCCAmrY0miYWof0OCAB4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <20039C04-C67D-4CDC-9B7F-B99F6A431836@comcast.net>
 <002501d69c1b$38c9fd20$aa5df760$@lotusowners.com>
 <CAFNB6WnS3UzD4oQ10tt3y0sSQDWN7CCCAmrY0miYWof0OCAB4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C3C1988-82E7-4C13-A8A3-F2968519669B@gmail.com>

My only addition to what has already been said is to ask if you frequently need to do collaborative work with others who use Office?  I happily used open software for years, but had to bite the bullet and get an Office license when I started doing work with a friend who was using Office.  While the open source software will let you save Office files, we often found minor, but annoying, differences going back and forth in formatting that created problems and extra work.  This was about 4 years ago and it may be better today, but I have stayed with MS to be safe.

> On Oct 6, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Larry Spector <lspector at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Have you looked at using the Google Suite tools? I use Google Sheets (Excel clone) and Google Docs (Word clone) and while not as full featured, they do the trick for my purposes. Both allow you download as .pdf files.
> 
> -Larry
> 
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 4:17 PM Tony Vaccaro <tvacc at lotusowners.com <mailto:tvacc at lotusowners.com>> wrote:
> This is the business I am in.  Use www.libreoffice.org <http://www.libreoffice.org/> for the office suite and use www.foxitsoftware.com <http://www.foxitsoftware.com/> for the free pdf reader.
> 
> And just as an aside, ESET.com is the best anti-virus software out there.  Not free, but it is the best.
> 
> Tony V
> 
>  
> 
> Anthony Vaccaro
> 
> President 
> 
> Lotus Owners of New York (LOONY)
> 
> http://www.lotusowners.com <http://www.lotusowners.com/>
> President
> 
> Lotus Ltd
> 
> http://www.lotusltd.com <http://www.lotusltd.com/>
> 
>  
> 
> From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Bob Spidell
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2020 3:47 PM
> To: Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com <mailto:tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>>
> Cc: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] software
> 
>  
> 
> Look into ?OpenOffice.? It?s open source/shareware ... it has Word and Excel equivalents (dunno about pdf export though).
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 6, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com <mailto:tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>> wrote:
> 
> ? 
> 
> Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get another used one, move the license, etc etc. 
> 
>  
> 
> This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there. 
> 
>  
> 
> Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year. What a crock...er, I mean racket. 
> 
>  
> 
> I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused. 
> 
>  
> 
> One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word. 
> 
>  
> 
> Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my garage shop and my basement shop. 
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks all
> 
> tim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net>_______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lspector at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lspector at gmail.com>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net <mailto:Shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk <http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk> http://autox.team.net/archive <http://autox.team.net/archive>
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com>
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From dhlocker at comcast.net  Tue Oct  6 15:06:47 2020
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 17:06:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <e5713069-accf-bc16-0035-350967adee39@comcast.net>

I'll add my voice for the LibreOffice.org products. LibreOffice is very
good at reading M$ files (and has the older, more familiar to me) menu
interface. PDF export is excellent. I strongly prefer LibreOffice over
M$ products.

I have not used OpenOffice for about ten years (since Oracle swallowed
it and stopped progress. OO has since moved to Apache, but I found
LibreOffice to be generally more reliable.)

HTH,
Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ <https://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml>

On 2020-10-06 3:39 p.m., Tim . wrote:
> Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products
> suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get
> another used one, move the license, etc etc.?
> 
> This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there.?
> 
> Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against
> buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they
> are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year.
> What a crock...er, I mean racket.?
> 
> I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused.?
> 
> One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving
> it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source
> stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word.?
> 
> Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in
> my garage shop and my basement shop.?
> 
> Thanks?all
> tim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net
> 

From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Tue Oct  6 15:17:31 2020
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 21:17:31 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB462971BE0AA7A53FFBAEA90DB40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks all!

________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 2:39 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] software

Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get another used one, move the license, etc etc.

This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there.

Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year. What a crock...er, I mean racket.

I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused.

One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word.

Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my garage shop and my basement shop.

Thanks all
tim
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From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Tue Oct  6 18:16:14 2020
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 17:16:14 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1601834402.28322.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3.1601834402.28322.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <c9a46c7e-55d7-c4a3-aaee-98766d5bb194@threeboysfarm.com>

I just read what I wrote over again when it posted and want to apologize 
to the OP as my self deprecation came back to me as sounding insulting.? 
Not my intention at all and I'm sorry.

Regards,

Mark Miller   707-490-5834
markmiller at threeboysfarm.com


> From: Mark Miller <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com>
> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Drilling a hole in aluminum oil pan
> Message-ID: <71d9750d-7643-9c53-3ed4-bfbe6f3e00e5 at threeboysfarm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Personally I try to avoid any possibility of having to call myself an
> idiot after I do something that in retrospect seems questionable
> enough.? But you do you.
>
> That said: do you actually need a 1/2" return line for the oil? Will
> running the line into the existing 3/8" port via a reducer still give
> you sufficient flow? That would be way simpler.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Miller   707-490-5834
> markmiller at threeboysfarm.com
>
>
>> On 2020-10-03 11:56 a.m., Miq Millman wrote:
>>> Here's what I want to do:
>>>
>>> Drill a 23/32' hole in the side of the oil pan for the (1/2 NPT-AN10
>>> steel braided line that allows the oil from the turbo back into the
>>> block.? I have the NPT tap ready.
>>>
>>> Here are the complications:
>>>
>>> 1) pan is bolted and sealed to the block -- I would rather not remove it
>>> 2) oil pan is aluminum not steel
>>> 3) there is already a threaded hole for 3/8 NPT
>>> 4) engine is newly built long block, with most of the ancillaries still
>>> to be attached, on an engine stand.
>>> 5) there is an additional hole on the opposite side of the pan for an
>>> oil temp sensor
>>>
>>> Here is what I am thinking:
>>>
>>> 1) coat the drill bit in some red grease to collect aluminum shavings
>>> 2) seal off water and vacuum?passages with tape
>>> 3) set air compressor to something very low, like 20 psi, and thread
>>> into the oil sensor hole (1/8 NPT)
>>> 4) fabricobble up a reduced hose to the shop vac line and point that at
>>> the drilling point
>>> 5) drill in short bursts, possibly cleaning the bit and grease each
>>> time, and reapplying grease
>>> 6) after I tap the hole (also a challenge due to the length of the tap
>>> and the baffle inside the pan) dump 5-6 quarts of the cheapest 10 w oil
>>> at the FLAPS and kind of "slosh" it around by slightly rotating the
>>> engine on the stand, drain and repeat again
>>> 7) check second pot of drained oil for metal shavings, if found try gas
>>> or diesel followed by 3rd round of cheap oil flush
>>>
>>> Open to options and opinions.? Including telling me not to be an idiot
>>> with my $8000 engine and just pull the pan.
>>>
>>> --
>>> __
>>> Miq Millman?? miq at bigllama.com <mailto:miq at bigllama.com>
>>> Tualatin, OR? Big Llama Productions
>>>
>>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Shop-talk mailing list
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Shop-talk Digest, Vol 14, Issue 341
> ******************************************
>

From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Fri Oct  9 16:21:04 2020
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2020 22:21:04 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] software
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DS7PR19MB46299B524D7353CBB050F795B40D0@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB46299848EA7884647BDA5223B4080@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Used Libre today for a spread sheet I use to keep track of household bills. So far am happy with it. Thanks all!
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . <tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 2:39 PM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] software

Had to buy a new laptop. For years I've been using an office products suite license that I bought years ago. As each old laptop dies, I get another used one, move the license, etc etc.

This Win10 machine won't run this old software. No surprise there.

Sooooooo.....I need Word and Excel for my side hustle. I am not against buying stand alones if I have to but if I am seeing this correctly, they are now only "annual licenses" that would have to be renewed each year. What a crock...er, I mean racket.

I looked at open source but there are so many that I quickly got confused.

One thing that is a must have is creating an invoice in Word then saving it as a pdf for sending to our customers. If none of the open source stuff has this feature, then I'd be forced to go with Word.

Shop content: I am selling buying and selling parts that are stored in my garage shop and my basement shop.

Thanks all
tim
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From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com  Fri Oct  9 16:35:58 2020
From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2020 22:35:58 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Kitchen vent hood?
In-Reply-To: <1a490c12-5ee7-587b-325b-06bf16dd7247@bradakis.com>
References: <1a490c12-5ee7-587b-325b-06bf16dd7247@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <DS7PR19MB4629DDF56A948BC9C136CBD3B4080@DS7PR19MB4629.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

This is GREAT thread and timely for us. Thanks all!
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 10:18 AM
To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Kitchen vent hood?

If you happen to be a friend on Facebook, you know how much I like
cooking.  Sometimes I make a mess, stink up the place with whatever I'm
working on.  I made some blackened shrimp one time, and got my cast iron
skillet hot enough so that the butter coated shrimp burst into flames
when they hit the pan.

I'm thinking a nice vent hood to pipe some of the fumes and such outside
would be a nice addition.  Has anyone added such a device to their own
kitchen?  Tips, tricks, recommendations?

mjb.


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From bk13 at earthlink.net  Fri Oct  9 17:09:49 2020
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2020 16:09:49 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Mason jar treads in wood?
In-Reply-To: <OF82F30A85.2F999587-ON852585F9.004A9B0C-852585F9.004AC511@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF82F30A85.2F999587-ON852585F9.004A9B0C-852585F9.004AC511@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4c091508-0953-de14-9ef9-34eb75ff830f@earthlink.net>

Mason jars for canning have a two part lid, the threaded band and the 
flat top.? Maybe you can get by with gluing the threaded band in a hole 
cut in the wood.? The metal band would be out of site, but allow easy 
threading of the jar into the wood device.

Brian

On 10/6/2020 6:36 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of a tap that can tread mason jar thread pitch? ?(I 
> only need to do it in wood.) ?So I can thread a mason jar into a piece 
> of wood.
>
> I have a great project idea, but I can't find a tool to do this.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a 
> rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your 
> territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
> -Who is John Galt?
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>

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From eric at megageek.com  Mon Oct 12 14:30:37 2020
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:30:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts
Message-ID: <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>

It's rare that a HF tool gets a second chance to impress me. But I have to say, the CHICAGO ELECTRIC 1/2" Belt Sander did just that, but left me with a new problem.
https://www.harborfreight.com/53-amp-12-in-heavy-duty-bandfile-belt-sander-62863.html

I started a new 'sideline' of products to sell. They are customize products made with old scuba tanks.

So I needed a way to dress up the 1/2" thick edges of the cut tanks. Some die grinding discs made for AL do the trick, but it still needs a sanding.

I tried paper, sponges, and other methods. The AL grabs an rips most of these. For grins, I tried the 1/2" belt sander I got a while ago but never used it because it was a bit of a disappointment.

Well, it works AWESOME for doing this. It's quick and easy. HOWEVER, the issue is that the tape on the belts quickly fails long before the belt's sanding ability is worn.

I tried every tape here I can find to repair the belts with no luck. The tape needs to be ultra tacky and strong, while not stretchable and the glue has to hold when it gets warm.
So my question is three fold.

1-Does anyone know of a source of really good belts for this sander other than the HF ones? HF no longer has a store brand and just have the 'Baxter' and 'Warrior' brands which I think might just be the same quality.

2-Is there a tape I can use to fix these belts that will last longer?

3-Is there another way to sand an edge of a AL SCUBA tank I should try?

Bonus question-
Anyone have any clever names for such a line of tanks? I was thinking of "Tanks for the Memories" but I was wondering if anyone else had any better ideas.

Note, I am making bells, mailboxes, TP holders, lamps, and a bunch of other items out of the tanks.

"Tanks" in advance




"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt?

From bspidell at comcast.net  Mon Oct 12 15:03:13 2020
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 14:03:13 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts
In-Reply-To: <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <3bbb8275-7bbb-5593-4ffa-4420b458ba7f@comcast.net>

re: "3-Is there another way to sand an edge of a AL SCUBA tank I should 
try?"

Flap disk on 4.5" angle grinder? I have an old CP grinder that I've used 
for hours on end and it's still chuggin'

re: "Anyone have any clever names for such a line of tanks? "

'Scuba Doo?' (didn't put a whole lot of thought into this, obviously)



On 10/12/2020 1:30 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> It's rare that a HF tool gets a second chance to impress me. But I have to say, the CHICAGO ELECTRIC 1/2" Belt Sander did just that, but left me with a new problem.
> https://www.harborfreight.com/53-amp-12-in-heavy-duty-bandfile-belt-sander-62863.html
>
> I started a new 'sideline' of products to sell. They are customize products made with old scuba tanks.
>
> So I needed a way to dress up the 1/2" thick edges of the cut tanks. Some die grinding discs made for AL do the trick, but it still needs a sanding.
>
> I tried paper, sponges, and other methods. The AL grabs an rips most of these. For grins, I tried the 1/2" belt sander I got a while ago but never used it because it was a bit of a disappointment.
>
> Well, it works AWESOME for doing this. It's quick and easy. HOWEVER, the issue is that the tape on the belts quickly fails long before the belt's sanding ability is worn.
>
> I tried every tape here I can find to repair the belts with no luck. The tape needs to be ultra tacky and strong, while not stretchable and the glue has to hold when it gets warm.
> So my question is three fold.
>
> 1-Does anyone know of a source of really good belts for this sander other than the HF ones? HF no longer has a store brand and just have the 'Baxter' and 'Warrior' brands which I think might just be the same quality.
>
> 2-Is there a tape I can use to fix these belts that will last longer?
>
> 3-Is there another way to sand an edge of a AL SCUBA tank I should try?
>
> Bonus question-
> Anyone have any clever names for such a line of tanks? I was thinking of "Tanks for the Memories" but I was wondering if anyone else had any better ideas.
>
> Note, I am making bells, mailboxes, TP holders, lamps, and a bunch of other items out of the tanks.
>
> "Tanks" in advance
>
>
>
>
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>


From jibrooks at live.com  Mon Oct 12 15:27:40 2020
From: jibrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 21:27:40 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts
In-Reply-To: <3bbb8275-7bbb-5593-4ffa-4420b458ba7f@comcast.net>
References: <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>,
 <3bbb8275-7bbb-5593-4ffa-4420b458ba7f@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <MWHPR06MB3151297229B89213663C4F01A8070@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Flapper disk?  They work great on aluminum.

Jack
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 2:03:13 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts

re: "3-Is there another way to sand an edge of a AL SCUBA tank I should
try?"

Flap disk on 4.5" angle grinder? I have an old CP grinder that I've used
for hours on end and it's still chuggin'

re: "Anyone have any clever names for such a line of tanks? "

'Scuba Doo?' (didn't put a whole lot of thought into this, obviously)



On 10/12/2020 1:30 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> It's rare that a HF tool gets a second chance to impress me. But I have to say, the CHICAGO ELECTRIC 1/2" Belt Sander did just that, but left me with a new problem.
> https://www.harborfreight.com/53-amp-12-in-heavy-duty-bandfile-belt-sander-62863.html
>
> I started a new 'sideline' of products to sell. They are customize products made with old scuba tanks.
>
> So I needed a way to dress up the 1/2" thick edges of the cut tanks. Some die grinding discs made for AL do the trick, but it still needs a sanding.
>
> I tried paper, sponges, and other methods. The AL grabs an rips most of these. For grins, I tried the 1/2" belt sander I got a while ago but never used it because it was a bit of a disappointment.
>
> Well, it works AWESOME for doing this. It's quick and easy. HOWEVER, the issue is that the tape on the belts quickly fails long before the belt's sanding ability is worn.
>
> I tried every tape here I can find to repair the belts with no luck. The tape needs to be ultra tacky and strong, while not stretchable and the glue has to hold when it gets warm.
> So my question is three fold.
>
> 1-Does anyone know of a source of really good belts for this sander other than the HF ones? HF no longer has a store brand and just have the 'Baxter' and 'Warrior' brands which I think might just be the same quality.
>
> 2-Is there a tape I can use to fix these belts that will last longer?
>
> 3-Is there another way to sand an edge of a AL SCUBA tank I should try?
>
> Bonus question-
> Anyone have any clever names for such a line of tanks? I was thinking of "Tanks for the Memories" but I was wondering if anyone else had any better ideas.
>
> Note, I am making bells, mailboxes, TP holders, lamps, and a bunch of other items out of the tanks.
>
> "Tanks" in advance
>
>
>
>
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibrooks at live.com

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From eric at megageek.com  Mon Oct 12 15:32:56 2020
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 17:32:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts
In-Reply-To: <3bbb8275-7bbb-5593-4ffa-4420b458ba7f@comcast.net>
References: <3bbb8275-7bbb-5593-4ffa-4420b458ba7f@comcast.net>,
 <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <OFA9943CC3.D8FE1ACC-ON852585FF.00765F38-852585FF.00765F39@mail.megageek.com>

DING DING DING-

Bob s came in with the winning answer up front.

The flap disk worked great (although it got pretty beat up.)

So now I have to order a ton of them!

Also, I love the name suggestion!

Note- I am still looking for better belts for the sander as there are small edges that I can't get with a flap sander.

I should have stated that I tried most of the 'fixes' on the web also. Glues and tevex etc.

the 1/2" belts are so narrow that nothing seems to work on them however.

Thanks again!

From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Oct 12 15:41:49 2020
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:41:49 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts
In-Reply-To: <OFA9943CC3.D8FE1ACC-ON852585FF.00765F38-852585FF.00765F39@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFA9943CC3.D8FE1ACC-ON852585FF.00765F38-852585FF.00765F39@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4ABE80C5-4F6C-4C02-B965-D3F838360E0C@icloud.com>

Is tgere a wider belt of the same length? If so you could try slitting the wide belts into narrower ones. 

There is an industrial belt company that I?ve used for decades. Klingspor. Check them out. First glance shows 1/2? belts but 60? long. They may have something you can use. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:33 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote:

?DING DING DING-

Bob s came in with the winning answer up front.

The flap disk worked great (although it got pretty beat up.)

So now I have to order a ton of them!

Also, I love the name suggestion!

Note- I am still looking for better belts for the sander as there are small edges that I can't get with a flap sander.

I should have stated that I tried most of the 'fixes' on the web also. Glues and tevex etc.

the 1/2" belts are so narrow that nothing seems to work on them however.

Thanks again!
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com


From jem at milleredp.com  Mon Oct 12 16:00:17 2020
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 15:00:17 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR06MB3151297229B89213663C4F01A8070@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>
 <3bbb8275-7bbb-5593-4ffa-4420b458ba7f@comcast.net>
 <MWHPR06MB3151297229B89213663C4F01A8070@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <dcce4610-5baf-db33-d18b-d4143db83c2c@milleredp.com>

On 10/12/2020 2:27 PM, Jack Brooks wrote:
> Flapper disk?? They work great on aluminum.

Coarse ones take off a lot of metal.   Fine ones load up and don't do 
much.  I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere.

John.

From jibrooks at live.com  Mon Oct 12 16:39:35 2020
From: jibrooks at live.com (Jack Brooks)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:39:35 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts
In-Reply-To: <dcce4610-5baf-db33-d18b-d4143db83c2c@milleredp.com>
References: <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>
 <3bbb8275-7bbb-5593-4ffa-4420b458ba7f@comcast.net>
 <MWHPR06MB3151297229B89213663C4F01A8070@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
 <dcce4610-5baf-db33-d18b-d4143db83c2c@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR06MB315139C2AD0947A7CA518FC5A8070@MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

I've been very happy with 120 grit on 6061.  Be gentle, but it's a nice way for me to clean up welds and still end up with a work piece that doesn't need more work to be presentable...

Jack
________________________________
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of John Miller <jem at milleredp.com>
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:00:17 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts

On 10/12/2020 2:27 PM, Jack Brooks wrote:
> Flapper disk?  They work great on aluminum.

Coarse ones take off a lot of metal.   Fine ones load up and don't do
much.  I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere.

John.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon Oct 12 17:06:18 2020
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 18:06:18 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about 1/2" belt sander belts
In-Reply-To: <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFE0B19901.4D81B055-ON852585FF.00708143-852585FF.0070AAC2@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <5E6F0F6A-087F-4E50-AB88-D286A0809FC0@gmail.com>



> On Oct 12, 2020, at 15:30, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> 
> It's rare that a HF tool gets a second chance to impress me. But I have to say, the CHICAGO ELECTRIC 1/2" Belt Sander did just that, but left me with a new problem.
> https://www.harborfreight.com/53-amp-12-in-heavy-duty-bandfile-belt-sander-62863.html

The industry name for these things is ?bandfilers?. There are lots of good quality belts; 3m make a number. 

From nogera at icloud.com  Mon Oct 19 12:01:07 2020
From: nogera at icloud.com (Robert Nogueirao)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Long board sand paper
Message-ID: <A6C25AEF-743E-4535-BDF5-B85C1862E917@icloud.com>

Looking to buy a roll of long board self sticking sand paper for body work. Found several sources with a range of prices. Ive always used 3M in the past.Since blocking a car requires a lot of paper I?m wondering if using 3M ( most expensive) is worth the extra cost?
Thanks 
Bob Nogueira  ( who thinks paint supply prices is making RUST look pretty good)

From miq at bigllama.com  Mon Oct 19 13:16:01 2020
From: miq at bigllama.com (Miq Millman)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 12:16:01 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Long board sand paper
In-Reply-To: <A6C25AEF-743E-4535-BDF5-B85C1862E917@icloud.com>
References: <A6C25AEF-743E-4535-BDF5-B85C1862E917@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CALUbS3ERoGtn7EWbYef-A46dtoouJcGdiDbjs7NcH5rCice07Q@mail.gmail.com>

This guy does some fairly in depth analysis of sandpaper cost vs
longevity.

His results are woodworking specific, but he concludes that the higher
priced stuff is worth the cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2VgobeZce0


--
__
Miq Millman   miq at bigllama.com
Tualatin, OR  Big Llama Productions


On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 11:01 AM Robert Nogueirao <nogera at icloud.com> wrote:

> Looking to buy a roll of long board self sticking sand paper for body
> work. Found several sources with a range of prices. Ive always used 3M in
> the past.Since blocking a car requires a lot of paper I?m wondering if
> using 3M ( most expensive) is worth the extra cost?
> Thanks
> Bob Nogueira  ( who thinks paint supply prices is making RUST look pretty
> good)
> _______________________________________________
>
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From bspidell at comcast.net  Mon Oct 19 15:18:03 2020
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 14:18:03 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Long board sand paper
In-Reply-To: <A6C25AEF-743E-4535-BDF5-B85C1862E917@icloud.com>
References: <A6C25AEF-743E-4535-BDF5-B85C1862E917@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <f252818c-8662-2858-e0e6-238297db0a57@comcast.net>

re: "... who thinks paint supply prices is making RUST look pretty good"

We call it 'patina' these days, good sir.


ps. Try some of the 'cheap' stuff, if it no worky go back to 3M. In my 
(limited) experience the problem is the paper loading-up, but the cheap 
stuff may lose its surface quicker.


On 10/19/2020 11:01 AM, Robert Nogueirao wrote:
> Looking to buy a roll of long board self sticking sand paper for body work. Found several sources with a range of prices. Ive always used 3M in the past.Since blocking a car requires a lot of paper I?m wondering if using 3M ( most expensive) is worth the extra cost?
> Thanks
> Bob Nogueira  ( who thinks paint supply prices is making RUST look pretty good)
>
>


From jniolon at att.net  Mon Oct 19 16:07:22 2020
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 17:07:22 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] french patio door
References: <1UWIGnD1xC.1UL3PVZeHE7.ref@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <1UWIGnD1xC.1UL3PVZeHE7@johns-desktop>

Need some carpenter expertise.   I have a exterior French door going out to my 
deck.  One door opens the other is fixed.  The fixed door needs to be
replaced due to rot in the bottom  rail. The frame and the other door are 
fine...   What do you call that fixed door ??   A "fixed panel" ??  Talked to
one of the store 
'associates"  (really only needed the first three letters of that title) and he says with a nice arrogant attitude "You can't 
buy that, 
they don't make them You have to buy the complete unit !!"  

Doesn't seem 
right but what do I know...  anybody can name that door/panel/insert ??  and 
can they be replaced ???  

tia
John

 
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Oct 19 16:13:37 2020
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 17:13:37 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Long board sand paper
In-Reply-To: <f252818c-8662-2858-e0e6-238297db0a57@comcast.net>
References: <f252818c-8662-2858-e0e6-238297db0a57@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <259CD4C9-D5C7-4E12-B35E-C9C9588FAB5C@icloud.com>

I tried to go to original study referenced in the video but didn?t find it. Was anyone successful in finding it? Specifically I wanted To see if they tested the sandpaper I?ve been using for decades. Klingspor. It?s a commercial/industrial brand. Their early sanding disks were punched from the drops of the large belts they made.

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Oct 19, 2020, at 4:24 PM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:

?re: "... who thinks paint supply prices is making RUST look pretty good"

We call it 'patina' these days, good sir.


ps. Try some of the 'cheap' stuff, if it no worky go back to 3M. In my (limited) experience the problem is the paper loading-up, but the cheap stuff may lose its surface quicker.


> On 10/19/2020 11:01 AM, Robert Nogueirao wrote:
> Looking to buy a roll of long board self sticking sand paper for body work. Found several sources with a range of prices. Ive always used 3M in the past.Since blocking a car requires a lot of paper I?m wondering if using 3M ( most expensive) is worth the extra cost?
> Thanks
> Bob Nogueira  ( who thinks paint supply prices is making RUST look pretty good)
> 
> 

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From patintexas at icloud.com  Mon Oct 19 16:24:08 2020
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 17:24:08 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] french patio door
In-Reply-To: <1UWIGnD1xC.1UL3PVZeHE7@johns-desktop>
References: <1UWIGnD1xC.1UL3PVZeHE7@johns-desktop>
Message-ID: <29570653-D5D6-4DEF-9588-3A330D87A91E@icloud.com>

John,

I?ve always referred to it as the fixed door. Do you know the brand of the door? Id so give them a call. Even if they won?t sell tou a door they may be able to give you a part number or ordering information to take to one of their dealers. 

Decades ago I purchased a new set of double fixed windows @ a Habitat Restore the same size as my patio door. I removed one of the windows (screws), then milled the window down & made a door out of it. Still works great!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Oct 19, 2020, at 5:09 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
Need some carpenter expertise.   I have a exterior French door going out to my deck.  One door opens the other is fixed.  The fixed door needs to be
replaced due to rot in the bottom  rail. The frame and the other door are fine...   What do you call that fixed door ??   A "fixed panel" ??  Talked to
one of the store 'associates"  (really only needed the first three letters of that title) and he says with a nice arrogant attitude "You can't buy that,
they don't make them You have to buy the complete unit !!" 
 
Doesn't seem right but what do I know...  anybody can name that door/panel/insert ??  and can they be replaced ??? 
 
tia
John
<patiodoor.jpg>
 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From jniolon at att.net  Mon Oct 19 16:44:26 2020
From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 17:44:26 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] french patio door
In-Reply-To: <29570653-D5D6-4DEF-9588-3A330D87A91E@icloud.com>
References: <1UWIGnD1xC.1UL3PVZeHE7@johns-desktop>
 <29570653-D5D6-4DEF-9588-3A330D87A91E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1UWIGnSZn4.3bUuTf2P9y@johns-desktop>

no name door, bought from local mill-works 25 years ago (now out of business)?.. hmmm might check habitat stores locally see what's available... good idea Pat

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com>
To: john niolon <jniolon at att.net>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: 10/19/2020 5:24:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] french patio door
________________________________________________________________________________

John,

I?ve always referred to it as the fixed door. Do you know the brand of the door? Id so give them a call. Even if they won?t sell tou a door they may be able to give you a part number or ordering information to take to one of their dealers. 

Decades ago I purchased a new set of double fixed windows @ a Habitat Restore the same size as my patio door. I removed one of the windows (screws), then milled the window down & made a door out of it. Still works great!

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Oct 19, 2020, at 5:09 PM, john niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

?
Need some carpenter expertise.   I have a exterior French door going out to my deck.  One door opens the other is fixed.  The fixed door needs to be
replaced due to rot in the bottom  rail. The frame and the other door are fine...   What do you call that fixed door ??   A "fixed panel" ??  Talked to
one of the store 'associates"  (really only needed the first three letters of that title) and he says with a nice arrogant attitude "You can't buy that,
they don't make them You have to buy the complete unit !!" 

Doesn't seem right but what do I know...  anybody can name that door/panel/insert ??  and can they be replaced ??? 

tia
John
<patiodoor.jpg>

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 19:35:38 2020
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:35:38 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
Message-ID: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>

New house was a foreclosure.  It was 'secured' at some point.  One of the
security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.  They did
not leave a key to those locks.  The sash latches are secured with
security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.

They're also pretty hard and so close to the window pane itself that
drilling them with a reverse drill bit isn't working.  And they're small
enough that just grabbing them with a needle-nose vice grip isn't working
either.

Any advice before I do something stupid and screw up what we're some nice
windows before the idiots got involved?

Scott
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From patintexas at icloud.com  Wed Oct 21 19:49:11 2020
From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:49:11 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B96D2AA-D967-4B26-82EA-D1C5A311907F@icloud.com>

Several things to try. 

Check with neighbors to see if any if them have the same locks. If so, maybe they remember who installed them. 

Contact a locksmith to see if they can make a key to match. 

You might be able to super glue a matching tool to the screw & unscrew it. Be careful to not glue the tool to the latch!

Drill into the latch around the screws & break the latch away. 

Peace,
Pat
Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:42 PM, Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> wrote:

?
New house was a foreclosure.  It was 'secured' at some point.  One of the security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.  They did not leave a key to those locks.  The sash latches are secured with security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.  

They're also pretty hard and so close to the window pane itself that drilling them with a reverse drill bit isn't working.  And they're small enough that just grabbing them with a needle-nose vice grip isn't working either.  

Any advice before I do something stupid and screw up what we're some nice windows before the idiots got involved?

Scott
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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From rande90 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 19:52:34 2020
From: rande90 at gmail.com (RandE)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:52:34 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAWW_U1kbx6EdMG5vcPSj+JJ9AP1pw_Fdsggz3OXRkbJ3v7h7A@mail.gmail.com>

There are tools that will remove those screws.  The locksmith in a
department I worked with years ago had a tool like the one in this
article.  He didn't use it very often but it worked for him.
https://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infoneway.html

Here's another article with a better picture of the tool and a couple other
suggestions.  You might be able to cut a slot that a regular screwdriver
can grip.
https://www.insight-security.com/how-to-remove-one-way-screws

Randy


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:42 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
wrote:

> New house was a foreclosure.  It was 'secured' at some point.  One of the
> security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.  They did
> not leave a key to those locks.  The sash latches are secured with
> security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.
>
> They're also pretty hard and so close to the window pane itself that
> drilling them with a reverse drill bit isn't working.  And they're small
> enough that just grabbing them with a needle-nose vice grip isn't working
> either.
>
> Any advice before I do something stupid and screw up what we're some nice
> windows before the idiots got involved?
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rande at pobox.com
>
>
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From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Wed Oct 21 19:58:02 2020
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric Russell)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 21:58:02 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <234fe1aa-f20d-908d-7b10-0fdf5128deca@mebtel.net>

Are the screw heads recessed? If not, there are tools similar to a 
socket that one hammers onto the screw head. Think mini wheel lock remover.

More ideas: https://youtu.be/eC4dyHchnM0 <https://youtu.be/eC4dyHchnM0>

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

On 10/21/2020 9:35 PM, Scott Hall wrote:
> New house was a foreclosure.? It was 'secured' at some point.? One of 
> the security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.? 
> They did not leave a key to those locks.? The sash latches are secured 
> with security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 21 20:12:03 2020
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 19:12:03 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9db68b3d-7976-2acb-1fd7-649a19613a36@earthlink.net>

Some ideas:

- Use a rotary tool or hacksaw and cut a slot in the screwdriver to use 
a regular flat blade screwdriver.
- Take a file and file off two sides of the screw so the vice grips can 
get a better bite on the screw head.? If it is tight, you may have to do 
this a second time so you essentially have a square headed screw.
- Drill progressively bigger holes in the head of the screw until it 
comes off the pull off the latch then use vice grips on the screw shaft.
- Slice through the latch and cut off the screw head then use vice grips 
on the screw shaft.
- Use a small pair of curved jaw vice grips and clamp them as absolutely 
tight as you can.? Use a bit of 2x4 to push the vice grips down as you 
tighten them and turn them to keep the vice grips from riding up.

Good luck.? Had to do this with window bars and a rusty security door.

Brian



On 10/21/2020 6:35 PM, Scott Hall wrote:
> New house was a foreclosure.? It was 'secured' at some point.? One of 
> the security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.? 
> They did not leave a key to those locks.? The sash latches are secured 
> with security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.
>
> They're also pretty hard and so close to the window pane itself that 
> drilling them with a reverse drill bit isn't working.? And they're 
> small enough that just grabbing them with a needle-nose vice grip 
> isn't working either.
>
> Any advice before I do something stupid and screw up what we're some 
> nice windows before the idiots got involved?
>
> Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>

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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 07:00:32 2020
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 08:00:32 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YBSW2-xR4KDUqwHbGioHhuNFzcGSQ9ygZNLRcp6FYj-LQ@mail.gmail.com>

How are your welding skills?  If the screw is steel, and you have a mig
welder, you can weld a nut onto the head of the screw and remove it quite
easily.  THe trick here is to choose a nut whose inside diameter is just
slightly larger than the crew head.  This gives you a very nice little cup
to weld in.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 8:42 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
wrote:

> New house was a foreclosure.  It was 'secured' at some point.  One of the
> security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.  They did
> not leave a key to those locks.  The sash latches are secured with
> security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.
>
> They're also pretty hard and so close to the window pane itself that
> drilling them with a reverse drill bit isn't working.  And they're small
> enough that just grabbing them with a needle-nose vice grip isn't working
> either.
>
> Any advice before I do something stupid and screw up what we're some nice
> windows before the idiots got involved?
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu Oct 22 07:23:17 2020
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 09:23:17 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CAAWW_U1kbx6EdMG5vcPSj+JJ9AP1pw_Fdsggz3OXRkbJ3v7h7A@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAWW_U1kbx6EdMG5vcPSj+JJ9AP1pw_Fdsggz3OXRkbJ3v7h7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20201022092048.04b58d50@cox.net>

At 09:52 PM 10/21/2020, RandE wrote:

 >There are tools that will remove those screws. 
The locksmith in a department I
 >worked with years ago had a tool like the one 
in this article.?  He didn't use it very
 >often but it worked for him.
 >
 ><https://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infoneway.html>https://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/infoneway.html

Everything I have seen is talking about using 
vise grips.  Not a bad idea.  But I had
tried to undo various screws with vise grips, and 
have had them slip off a lot.  Try
using a pair if dikes.  I've had a lot of luck as 
the can bit into the head and really
grib.  May or may not work, but I have had very good success with this method.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
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From fishplate at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 12:52:09 2020
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 14:52:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CNTYdw3cC4bAByLEZRGWKkWktcCL0C-6a40apcAJQ3EqA@mail.gmail.com>

Oddly enough, I got a link to this today...One application is removing
stubborn/anti-tamper screws

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LMOAYR2/

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 9:42 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
wrote:

> New house was a foreclosure.  It was 'secured' at some point.  One of the
> security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.  They did
> not leave a key to those locks.  The sash latches are secured with
> security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.
>
> They're also pretty hard and so close to the window pane itself that
> drilling them with a reverse drill bit isn't working.  And they're small
> enough that just grabbing them with a needle-nose vice grip isn't working
> either.
>
> Any advice before I do something stupid and screw up what we're some nice
> windows before the idiots got involved?
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>
>
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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Thu Oct 22 13:52:00 2020
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 14:52:00 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CNTYdw3cC4bAByLEZRGWKkWktcCL0C-6a40apcAJQ3EqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7CNTYdw3cC4bAByLEZRGWKkWktcCL0C-6a40apcAJQ3EqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YBw5nVP+axVNdsY3R1E7J-6AstSqDooSq6A=yiBcy5UoA@mail.gmail.com>

Wow $40 for a pair of pliers.  Maybe worth it if they work, but pretty
steep to take a chance on...

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 2:00 PM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oddly enough, I got a link to this today...One application is removing
> stubborn/anti-tamper screws
>
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LMOAYR2/
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 9:42 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> New house was a foreclosure.  It was 'secured' at some point.  One of the
>> security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.  They did
>> not leave a key to those locks.  The sash latches are secured with
>> security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.
>>
>> They're also pretty hard and so close to the window pane itself that
>> drilling them with a reverse drill bit isn't working.  And they're small
>> enough that just grabbing them with a needle-nose vice grip isn't working
>> either.
>>
>> Any advice before I do something stupid and screw up what we're some nice
>> windows before the idiots got involved?
>>
>> Scott
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From nogera at icloud.com  Fri Oct 23 15:39:47 2020
From: nogera at icloud.com (Robert Nogueirao)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 16:39:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cooling of air compressor
Message-ID: <6246F9C7-9398-401D-A6D2-827137B2FCC0@icloud.com>

I?ve got a two stage 80 gallon Campbell Hausfeld compressor which is mounted in a small shead atached to the back of the garage. It has served well for the past twenties years giving me no problems. It Is seeing far least uses in the last few years oon
Y providing tire air and the occasional blowing off of dust.
    I went into the shead yesterday to drain water from the tank and it appears a rodent had taken up residents there making a nest in the squirrel cage fan which is fitted to the compressor to cool the cylinders. The flywheel also has fan type blades but they appear to be more of a ? what to hell why not? addition than a attempt to provide air movement. Anyway when the compressor started up with the new nest inside the squirrel cage blower the fan was blown to bits but nothing else was damaged.
THE PROBLEM:   Campbell Hausfeld no longer carries parts and a search online found no blowers which look like the would work. So the question is is the cooling air blowing over the cylinders important enough that I should shut the compressor Down until blower can be found or will occasional use be okay.?

Bob Nogueira

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Fri Oct 23 16:15:03 2020
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 18:15:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cooling of air compressor
In-Reply-To: <6246F9C7-9398-401D-A6D2-827137B2FCC0@icloud.com>
References: <6246F9C7-9398-401D-A6D2-827137B2FCC0@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20201023180834.04bcef00@cox.net>

At 05:39 PM 10/23/2020, Robert Nogueirao wrote:

 >I've got a two stage 80 gallon Campbell Hausfeld compressor which 
is mounted in
 >a small shead atached to the back of the garage.....

 >Anyway when the compressor started up with the new nest inside the squirrel
 >cage blower the fan was blown to bits but nothing else was damaged. THE
 >PROBLEM:   Campbell Hausfeld no longer carries parts and a search 
online found
 >no blowers which look like the would work. So the question is is 
the cooling air
 >blowing over the cylinders important enough that I should shut the 
compressor
 >Down until blower can be found or will occasional use be okay.? Bob Nogueira

Bob,

I hope your shed is well ventelated.  I have a Craftsman 30gal horizontal 5hp
compressor that I've had since about 93.  It's on wheels so it can be 
rolled around.
When I first got it, it was sitting out in the middle of my garage 
and the only air
being forced across it was what the blades on the drive wheel 
had.  Then I built a
work bench and put the compressor under that with very little air 
flow around the
compressor.  So I took an old box fan and hung it from the bottom of my work
bench next to the compressor.  So when I turn on the compressor I turn on the
box fan and I think it gets a good bit of are moving by it.  Like 
yours mine isn't
seeing the work up it use to get, from sanding & paint cars, to 
running a blasting
cabinet, and a pressure blaster in the back yard.  But it's still 
going some 25+
years later.  So I think the box fan really helped.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/morgan
Bricklin:     www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction




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From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Fri Oct 23 16:27:45 2020
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric Russell)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 18:27:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cooling of air compressor
In-Reply-To: <6246F9C7-9398-401D-A6D2-827137B2FCC0@icloud.com>
References: <6246F9C7-9398-401D-A6D2-827137B2FCC0@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <dc964776-c781-1517-463d-acb14cc80895@mebtel.net>

I can't imagine that occasional use would be a problem. I assume the 
compressor fills a tank and only comes on when the tank pressure drops 
below a set amount. If you wanted to use it for longer can you aim a box 
fan at it?

Check with HVAC parts suppliers. Maybe there is a squirrel cage fan 
there that would fit?

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

On 10/23/2020 5:39 PM, Robert Nogueirao wrote:
> ...when the compressor started up with the new nest inside the squirrel cage blower the fan was blown to bits but nothing else was damaged.
> THE PROBLEM:   Campbell Hausfeld no longer carries parts and a search online found no blowers which look like the would work. So the question is is the cooling air blowing over the cylinders important enough that I should shut the compressor Down until blower can be found or will occasional use be okay.?
>


From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org  Fri Oct 23 18:50:39 2020
From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 20:50:39 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cooling of air compressor
In-Reply-To: <6246F9C7-9398-401D-A6D2-827137B2FCC0@icloud.com>
References: <6246F9C7-9398-401D-A6D2-827137B2FCC0@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <7db6bf0f-b501-a228-53d8-c429ec4ed041@sackheads.org>

I use my small 25 gallon air compressor to winterize my sprinkler 
system.? The pros use a tow-behind compressor that produces enough cfm 
that they can blow out each zone in a minute or less.? My little 
compressor can't come close to that so it takes 4-5 tank-fulls per 
zone.? So the compressor winds up running for 90+ minutes continuously 
while I cycle through the system.? One year I noticed the compressor 
fins were so hot that I couldn't touch them for more than a second or 
so. Ever since then, I've aimed an 18" metal floor fan at the compressor 
when I need to run it continuously like that.? Now the compressor 
housing and motor don't go above lukewarm to the touch.

I don't know if it's absolutely necessary but I have to think that 
cooler is better in this case.

On 2020-10-23 17:39, Robert Nogueirao wrote:
> I?ve got a two stage 80 gallon Campbell Hausfeld compressor which is mounted in a small shead atached to the back of the garage. It has served well for the past twenties years giving me no problems. It Is seeing far least uses in the last few years oon
> Y providing tire air and the occasional blowing off of dust.
>      I went into the shead yesterday to drain water from the tank and it appears a rodent had taken up residents there making a nest in the squirrel cage fan which is fitted to the compressor to cool the cylinders. The flywheel also has fan type blades but they appear to be more of a ? what to hell why not? addition than a attempt to provide air movement. Anyway when the compressor started up with the new nest inside the squirrel cage blower the fan was blown to bits but nothing else was damaged.
> THE PROBLEM:   Campbell Hausfeld no longer carries parts and a search online found no blowers which look like the would work. So the question is is the cooling air blowing over the cylinders important enough that I should shut the compressor Down until blower can be found or will occasional use be okay.?
>
> Bob Nogueira
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org
>


From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 07:17:31 2020
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 08:17:31 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing security screws
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YBw5nVP+axVNdsY3R1E7J-6AstSqDooSq6A=yiBcy5UoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u7cR0FyuOZdjDhUmDB_COPWxUetMESKAU_RxY-7uCekuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO8Q7CNTYdw3cC4bAByLEZRGWKkWktcCL0C-6a40apcAJQ3EqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANuE7YBw5nVP+axVNdsY3R1E7J-6AstSqDooSq6A=yiBcy5UoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK73_u6qAUbcU8JMTrjVcQJi+z1y-OgtwzWf+FaD9PB0cubZaw@mail.gmail.com>

Eventual solution: a combination of several things.

1) use Demel to cut a deeper flat into the screw head, unscrew like a
normal screw.
2) press down REALLY HARD with flat-blade screwdriver into security screw
head, eke out 1/4 turn at a time.
3) needle-nose vice grips.

Two came out using #2. The rest were #1.There were four screws per window
and...a lot of windows. The stupidest thing about this is that the latch
locks closed over one of the screw heads--so you can't access that screw
until it unlocks. You can, however, just break off the latch handle with a
pair of pliers very easily. This also removes the latch tooth, allowing you
to open the window. So as a security feature those latches are pretty
useless.

FWIW, I remembered I had a security screw removal set of bits, including
the "fork" bits that are supposed to work on those security screws. I
couldn't get them to work--they just cammed out like a regular flat-blade.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 2:52 PM John Innis <jdinnis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow $40 for a pair of pliers.  Maybe worth it if they work, but pretty
> steep to take a chance on...
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 2:00 PM Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Oddly enough, I got a link to this today...One application is removing
>> stubborn/anti-tamper screws
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LMOAYR2/
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 9:42 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> New house was a foreclosure.  It was 'secured' at some point.  One of
>>> the security features was locking sash latches in all the windows.  They
>>> did not leave a key to those locks.  The sash latches are secured with
>>> security/one-way screws that cannot just be unscrewed.
>>>
>>> They're also pretty hard and so close to the window pane itself that
>>> drilling them with a reverse drill bit isn't working.  And they're small
>>> enough that just grabbing them with a needle-nose vice grip isn't working
>>> either.
>>>
>>> Any advice before I do something stupid and screw up what we're some
>>> nice windows before the idiots got involved?
>>>
>>
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From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 07:29:57 2020
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 08:29:57 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaf blower issues...need the elders' advice
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u4oeb+bVJ5hPuqtRwsq7Dx5U6m6SVsjGQU1svZ85vnixw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u4oeb+bVJ5hPuqtRwsq7Dx5U6m6SVsjGQU1svZ85vnixw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>

And to complete this one too:

The leaf blower had bad compression. Either a worn ring, piston, or
cylinder. I didn't take it apart to find out which because Troy Bilt only
sells the piston and ring and not the cylinder--if the cylinder is worn,
it's garbage and the piston is only sold as part of a short
block--literally you pull the cylinder off the old one and everything else
is new, apparently.

I might take it apart this winter and see if it's the piston or ring--it
hurts my heart to just toss that much metal and plastic in the trash--but I
haven't looked to see if the specs are available online yet to even know
what they should be.

The takeaway here for future searchers is NOT to buy Troy Bilt, apparently.
I tried to take it to shops locally to repair it. None of them would even
look at it and every single one said to buy an Echo. So I'm off to buy an
Echo this morning. Also disappointed the parts aren't available and that
it's so worn. On the one hand, I *did* get several years out of it. On the
other, it had its oil, filters, etc. changed regularly and it wasn't used
heavily.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:33 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I have a Troy Bilt 4-cycle backpack leaf blower, the older version of this
> thing:
>
>
> https://www.troybilt.com/en_US/leaf-blowers/tb4bp-ec-backpack-gas-leaf-blower/41BR4BEG766.html
>
>
> I need intelligent more experienced folks to advise me before I slip into
> insanity.
>
> The past year or so the choke has lost effectiveness--you used to start it
> as directed: pump the primer bulb a few times, choke on full. Start. Choke
> to 1/2 until warm, then choke full-off.
>
> At first it wouldn't start with choke full-on, I had to start it on
> half-choke. Then 1/4-ish.
>
> At the same time, the throttle became more of an an/off switch. It would
> bog at anything other than idle. If I open it full, it would die. And it
> never achieved full-power.
>
> Note: the choke is an actual choke--a plastic plate slides over the air
> intake on the carb.
>
> This sounds like something that needs a carb cleanin', right? So I did.
> Took it apart, soaked it in carb cleaner, re-assembled.
>
> I also replaced the fuel intake line and fuel filter--a weird little
> thing, looks like a pumice stone on the end of the fuel line.
>
> Worked...better. Not back to new, but better. For a day.
>
> Now it won't start at all.
>
> There's just not that much to this carb. I blew it out with compressed
> air, chased the passages I could, etc. There's just not much there...there.
>
> What's making me question my sanity is that this happened on my riding
> mower last year too and I similarly cleaned that carb, which was similarly
> simple and it absolutely would not run again until I just bought a new carb
> and replaced it.
>
>  So here's the question: what am I doing or not doing that I can't clean a
> small engine carburetor? Is there some secret air passage on small engine
> carbs that I'm not reaching? I tool them completely apart. There were no
> idle jets, or enrichment circuits, or...whatever. Just a hunk of metal with
> a few small holes. What on earth would make the new one better than the one
> that's on there?
>
> I feel like this should be so simple and I'm missing something so basic.
>
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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 08:38:04 2020
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 09:38:04 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaf blower issues...need the elders' advice
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u4oeb+bVJ5hPuqtRwsq7Dx5U6m6SVsjGQU1svZ85vnixw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YB6HUNzjrocUaKw1kePGXZ9h=0y20kVAYDczUABeuwE8g@mail.gmail.com>

If you need to replace this, you might consider a battery powered model.  I
bought the 60v Dewalt blower last year and I am very happy with it.  I do
not think it is as powerful as the Stihl backpack blower I have used in the
past, but I don't really need it to be either.  It is definitely stronger
than the handheld Ryobi gas powered blower that it replaced.  I only have a
small amount of driveway and sidewalk that I actually blow off, so it suits
my needs just fine.  If you are going to stick with gas, I highly recommend
the Stihl blowers.  They are incredibly powerful and reliable.  I used one
for several years when I was doing grounds maintenance and that thing was
amazing.  Always started easily and would blow hard enough to strip loose
paint off the side of the shed.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 8:41 AM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
wrote:

> And to complete this one too:
>
> The leaf blower had bad compression. Either a worn ring, piston, or
> cylinder. I didn't take it apart to find out which because Troy Bilt only
> sells the piston and ring and not the cylinder--if the cylinder is worn,
> it's garbage and the piston is only sold as part of a short
> block--literally you pull the cylinder off the old one and everything else
> is new, apparently.
>
> I might take it apart this winter and see if it's the piston or ring--it
> hurts my heart to just toss that much metal and plastic in the trash--but I
> haven't looked to see if the specs are available online yet to even know
> what they should be.
>
> The takeaway here for future searchers is NOT to buy Troy Bilt,
> apparently. I tried to take it to shops locally to repair it. None of them
> would even look at it and every single one said to buy an Echo. So I'm off
> to buy an Echo this morning. Also disappointed the parts aren't available
> and that it's so worn. On the one hand, I *did* get several years out of
> it. On the other, it had its oil, filters, etc. changed regularly and it
> wasn't used heavily.
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:33 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have a Troy Bilt 4-cycle backpack leaf blower, the older version of
>> this thing:
>>
>>
>> https://www.troybilt.com/en_US/leaf-blowers/tb4bp-ec-backpack-gas-leaf-blower/41BR4BEG766.html
>>
>>
>> I need intelligent more experienced folks to advise me before I slip into
>> insanity.
>>
>> The past year or so the choke has lost effectiveness--you used to start
>> it as directed: pump the primer bulb a few times, choke on full. Start.
>> Choke to 1/2 until warm, then choke full-off.
>>
>> At first it wouldn't start with choke full-on, I had to start it on
>> half-choke. Then 1/4-ish.
>>
>> At the same time, the throttle became more of an an/off switch. It would
>> bog at anything other than idle. If I open it full, it would die. And it
>> never achieved full-power.
>>
>> Note: the choke is an actual choke--a plastic plate slides over the air
>> intake on the carb.
>>
>> This sounds like something that needs a carb cleanin', right? So I did.
>> Took it apart, soaked it in carb cleaner, re-assembled.
>>
>> I also replaced the fuel intake line and fuel filter--a weird little
>> thing, looks like a pumice stone on the end of the fuel line.
>>
>> Worked...better. Not back to new, but better. For a day.
>>
>> Now it won't start at all.
>>
>> There's just not that much to this carb. I blew it out with compressed
>> air, chased the passages I could, etc. There's just not much there...there.
>>
>> What's making me question my sanity is that this happened on my riding
>> mower last year too and I similarly cleaned that carb, which was similarly
>> simple and it absolutely would not run again until I just bought a new carb
>> and replaced it.
>>
>>  So here's the question: what am I doing or not doing that I can't clean
>> a small engine carburetor? Is there some secret air passage on small engine
>> carbs that I'm not reaching? I tool them completely apart. There were no
>> idle jets, or enrichment circuits, or...whatever. Just a hunk of metal with
>> a few small holes. What on earth would make the new one better than the one
>> that's on there?
>>
>> I feel like this should be so simple and I'm missing something so basic.
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From brabel at comcast.net  Sat Oct 24 09:24:30 2020
From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 08:24:30 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaf blower issues...need the elders' advice
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A73B30EF-6CE8-43CB-8954-DB8C9CF94B2E@comcast.net>

I bought a battery-powered leaf blower. It works great. The sound and stink of a two-cycle blower drives me round the bend. Just sayin?.

I?m a cranky elder...

- Bill Rabel
  Anacortes

"Prejudice is a great time saver. You can form opinions without having to get the facts.?  - E.B. White


> On Oct 24, 2020, at 6:42 AM, Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> And to complete this one too:
> 
> The leaf blower had bad compression. Either a worn ring, piston, or cylinder. I didn't take it apart to find out which because Troy Bilt only sells the piston and ring and not the cylinder--if the cylinder is worn, it's garbage and the piston is only sold as part of a short block--literally you pull the cylinder off the old one and everything else is new, apparently.
> 
> I might take it apart this winter and see if it's the piston or ring--it hurts my heart to just toss that much metal and plastic in the trash--but I haven't looked to see if the specs are available online yet to even know what they should be.
> 
> The takeaway here for future searchers is NOT to buy Troy Bilt, apparently. I tried to take it to shops locally to repair it. None of them would even look at it and every single one said to buy an Echo. So I'm off to buy an Echo this morning. Also disappointed the parts aren't available and that it's so worn. On the one hand, I *did* get several years out of it. On the other, it had its oil, filters, etc. changed regularly and it wasn't used heavily.  
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:33 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have a Troy Bilt 4-cycle backpack leaf blower, the older version of this thing:
>> 
>> https://www.troybilt.com/en_US/leaf-blowers/tb4bp-ec-backpack-gas-leaf-blower/41BR4BEG766.html 
>> 
>> I need intelligent more experienced folks to advise me before I slip into insanity.
>> 
>> The past year or so the choke has lost effectiveness--you used to start it as directed: pump the primer bulb a few times, choke on full. Start. Choke to 1/2 until warm, then choke full-off.
>> 
>> At first it wouldn't start with choke full-on, I had to start it on half-choke. Then 1/4-ish. 
>> 
>> At the same time, the throttle became more of an an/off switch. It would bog at anything other than idle. If I open it full, it would die. And it never achieved full-power.
>> 
>> Note: the choke is an actual choke--a plastic plate slides over the air intake on the carb.
>> 
>> This sounds like something that needs a carb cleanin', right? So I did. Took it apart, soaked it in carb cleaner, re-assembled.
>> 
>> I also replaced the fuel intake line and fuel filter--a weird little thing, looks like a pumice stone on the end of the fuel line. 
>> 
>> Worked...better. Not back to new, but better. For a day.  
>> 
>> Now it won't start at all.
>> 
>> There's just not that much to this carb. I blew it out with compressed air, chased the passages I could, etc. There's just not much there...there.
>> 
>> What's making me question my sanity is that this happened on my riding mower last year too and I similarly cleaned that carb, which was similarly simple and it absolutely would not run again until I just bought a new carb and replaced it.
>> 
>>  So here's the question: what am I doing or not doing that I can't clean a small engine carburetor? Is there some secret air passage on small engine carbs that I'm not reaching? I tool them completely apart. There were no idle jets, or enrichment circuits, or...whatever. Just a hunk of metal with a few small holes. What on earth would make the new one better than the one that's on there?
>> 
>> I feel like this should be so simple and I'm missing something so basic. 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
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> 
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From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 09:46:37 2020
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 10:46:37 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaf blower issues...need the elders' advice
In-Reply-To: <A73B30EF-6CE8-43CB-8954-DB8C9CF94B2E@comcast.net>
References: <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <A73B30EF-6CE8-43CB-8954-DB8C9CF94B2E@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAK73_u4WohMAHfT0jOxSpYjEFHUAJiX=PCRPEjCqe+67yfBVRw@mail.gmail.com>

What's the endurance of those battery blowers?  The driveway is probably
400 feet all in, plus maybe 1000 sq. ft. of parking pad in front of the
garage.

In the summers it's just grass clippings after mowing.  Right now, it can
get at least a foot deep in leaves.

(The lot is oddly-shaped and they put the house towards the back of it.)

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:39 AM Bill Rabel <brabel at comcast.net> wrote:

> I bought a battery-powered leaf blower. It works great. The sound and
> stink of a two-cycle blower drives me round the bend. Just sayin?.
>
> I?m a *cranky* elder...
>
> - Bill Rabel
>   Anacortes
>
> "Prejudice is a great time saver. You can form opinions without having to
> get the facts.?  - E.B. White
>
> On Oct 24, 2020, at 6:42 AM, Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> And to complete this one too:
>
> The leaf blower had bad compression. Either a worn ring, piston, or
> cylinder. I didn't take it apart to find out which because Troy Bilt only
> sells the piston and ring and not the cylinder--if the cylinder is worn,
> it's garbage and the piston is only sold as part of a short
> block--literally you pull the cylinder off the old one and everything else
> is new, apparently.
>
> I might take it apart this winter and see if it's the piston or ring--it
> hurts my heart to just toss that much metal and plastic in the trash--but I
> haven't looked to see if the specs are available online yet to even know
> what they should be.
>
> The takeaway here for future searchers is NOT to buy Troy Bilt,
> apparently. I tried to take it to shops locally to repair it. None of them
> would even look at it and every single one said to buy an Echo. So I'm off
> to buy an Echo this morning. Also disappointed the parts aren't available
> and that it's so worn. On the one hand, I *did* get several years out of
> it. On the other, it had its oil, filters, etc. changed regularly and it
> wasn't used heavily.
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:33 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have a Troy Bilt 4-cycle backpack leaf blower, the older version of
>> this thing:
>>
>>
>> https://www.troybilt.com/en_US/leaf-blowers/tb4bp-ec-backpack-gas-leaf-blower/41BR4BEG766.html
>>
>>
>> I need intelligent more experienced folks to advise me before I slip into
>> insanity.
>>
>> The past year or so the choke has lost effectiveness--you used to start
>> it as directed: pump the primer bulb a few times, choke on full. Start.
>> Choke to 1/2 until warm, then choke full-off.
>>
>> At first it wouldn't start with choke full-on, I had to start it on
>> half-choke. Then 1/4-ish.
>>
>> At the same time, the throttle became more of an an/off switch. It would
>> bog at anything other than idle. If I open it full, it would die. And it
>> never achieved full-power.
>>
>> Note: the choke is an actual choke--a plastic plate slides over the air
>> intake on the carb.
>>
>> This sounds like something that needs a carb cleanin', right? So I did.
>> Took it apart, soaked it in carb cleaner, re-assembled.
>>
>> I also replaced the fuel intake line and fuel filter--a weird little
>> thing, looks like a pumice stone on the end of the fuel line.
>>
>> Worked...better. Not back to new, but better. For a day.
>>
>> Now it won't start at all.
>>
>> There's just not that much to this carb. I blew it out with compressed
>> air, chased the passages I could, etc. There's just not much there...there.
>>
>> What's making me question my sanity is that this happened on my riding
>> mower last year too and I similarly cleaned that carb, which was similarly
>> simple and it absolutely would not run again until I just bought a new carb
>> and replaced it.
>>
>>  So here's the question: what am I doing or not doing that I can't clean
>> a small engine carburetor? Is there some secret air passage on small engine
>> carbs that I'm not reaching? I tool them completely apart. There were no
>> idle jets, or enrichment circuits, or...whatever. Just a hunk of metal with
>> a few small holes. What on earth would make the new one better than the one
>> that's on there?
>>
>> I feel like this should be so simple and I'm missing something so basic.
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/brabel at comcast.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com
>
>
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From jdinnis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 10:56:28 2020
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 11:56:28 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaf blower issues...need the elders' advice
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u4WohMAHfT0jOxSpYjEFHUAJiX=PCRPEjCqe+67yfBVRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <A73B30EF-6CE8-43CB-8954-DB8C9CF94B2E@comcast.net>
 <CAK73_u4WohMAHfT0jOxSpYjEFHUAJiX=PCRPEjCqe+67yfBVRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YA0HB=N1HwYkUodaRt3vGfrEFRSE2y6dwP7GZZs_jY6ng@mail.gmail.com>

Depends on which battery you get.  I have the 60v 9ah battery.  I can run
it for about 30mins (all I need to do) and it is still about 1/3 charge.
They make a 12ah battery if you need additional capacity, but it is VERY
expensive.  You can get two of the 9ah batteries for about the same price.
You'd have to swap but get more capacity for less money.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:59 AM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
wrote:

> What's the endurance of those battery blowers?  The driveway is probably
> 400 feet all in, plus maybe 1000 sq. ft. of parking pad in front of the
> garage.
>
> In the summers it's just grass clippings after mowing.  Right now, it can
> get at least a foot deep in leaves.
>
> (The lot is oddly-shaped and they put the house towards the back of it.)
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:39 AM Bill Rabel <brabel at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I bought a battery-powered leaf blower. It works great. The sound and
>> stink of a two-cycle blower drives me round the bend. Just sayin?.
>>
>> I?m a *cranky* elder...
>>
>> - Bill Rabel
>>   Anacortes
>>
>> "Prejudice is a great time saver. You can form opinions without having to
>> get the facts.?  - E.B. White
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2020, at 6:42 AM, Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> And to complete this one too:
>>
>> The leaf blower had bad compression. Either a worn ring, piston, or
>> cylinder. I didn't take it apart to find out which because Troy Bilt only
>> sells the piston and ring and not the cylinder--if the cylinder is worn,
>> it's garbage and the piston is only sold as part of a short
>> block--literally you pull the cylinder off the old one and everything else
>> is new, apparently.
>>
>> I might take it apart this winter and see if it's the piston or ring--it
>> hurts my heart to just toss that much metal and plastic in the trash--but I
>> haven't looked to see if the specs are available online yet to even know
>> what they should be.
>>
>> The takeaway here for future searchers is NOT to buy Troy Bilt,
>> apparently. I tried to take it to shops locally to repair it. None of them
>> would even look at it and every single one said to buy an Echo. So I'm off
>> to buy an Echo this morning. Also disappointed the parts aren't available
>> and that it's so worn. On the one hand, I *did* get several years out of
>> it. On the other, it had its oil, filters, etc. changed regularly and it
>> wasn't used heavily.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:33 PM Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Troy Bilt 4-cycle backpack leaf blower, the older version of
>>> this thing:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.troybilt.com/en_US/leaf-blowers/tb4bp-ec-backpack-gas-leaf-blower/41BR4BEG766.html
>>>
>>>
>>> I need intelligent more experienced folks to advise me before I slip
>>> into insanity.
>>>
>>> The past year or so the choke has lost effectiveness--you used to start
>>> it as directed: pump the primer bulb a few times, choke on full. Start.
>>> Choke to 1/2 until warm, then choke full-off.
>>>
>>> At first it wouldn't start with choke full-on, I had to start it on
>>> half-choke. Then 1/4-ish.
>>>
>>> At the same time, the throttle became more of an an/off switch. It would
>>> bog at anything other than idle. If I open it full, it would die. And it
>>> never achieved full-power.
>>>
>>> Note: the choke is an actual choke--a plastic plate slides over the air
>>> intake on the carb.
>>>
>>> This sounds like something that needs a carb cleanin', right? So I did.
>>> Took it apart, soaked it in carb cleaner, re-assembled.
>>>
>>> I also replaced the fuel intake line and fuel filter--a weird little
>>> thing, looks like a pumice stone on the end of the fuel line.
>>>
>>> Worked...better. Not back to new, but better. For a day.
>>>
>>> Now it won't start at all.
>>>
>>> There's just not that much to this carb. I blew it out with compressed
>>> air, chased the passages I could, etc. There's just not much there...there.
>>>
>>> What's making me question my sanity is that this happened on my riding
>>> mower last year too and I similarly cleaned that carb, which was similarly
>>> simple and it absolutely would not run again until I just bought a new carb
>>> and replaced it.
>>>
>>>  So here's the question: what am I doing or not doing that I can't clean
>>> a small engine carburetor? Is there some secret air passage on small engine
>>> carbs that I'm not reaching? I tool them completely apart. There were no
>>> idle jets, or enrichment circuits, or...whatever. Just a hunk of metal with
>>> a few small holes. What on earth would make the new one better than the one
>>> that's on there?
>>>
>>> I feel like this should be so simple and I'm missing something so basic.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/brabel at comcast.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
>> http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================
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From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org  Sat Oct 24 13:59:06 2020
From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2020 15:59:06 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaf blower issues...need the elders' advice
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u4WohMAHfT0jOxSpYjEFHUAJiX=PCRPEjCqe+67yfBVRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <A73B30EF-6CE8-43CB-8954-DB8C9CF94B2E@comcast.net>
 <CAK73_u4WohMAHfT0jOxSpYjEFHUAJiX=PCRPEjCqe+67yfBVRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b46c9e9d-b80a-b976-bc99-03151f45f0f0@sackheads.org>

You have to look at the battery size. You can't simply compare amp-hours 
because, unlike most power tools where 12V and 18V are pretty much 
standard across different manufacturers, outdoor power equipment uses a 
variety of voltages...18V, 36V, 40V, 56V, 60V, 80V...and I think there 
are a few 120V designs out there now.? Instead, you can compare 
Watt-hours which is the amount of energy the battery contains.

For example, my 5Ah 56V Ego batteries contain about 280 Watt-hours of 
energy, a 12Ah 18V Milwaukee battery contains 216 Watt-hours, etc.

Runtime also depends on how hard you drive the motor.? If you're running 
them at wide-open, they're not going to last very long because their 
brushless motors can draw a lot of power.? I've read that Ego's motors 
are rated north of 2000 Watts.? So based on those numbers, I could 
probably expect less than 10 minutes at wide open ~600 cfm from the 
blower.? The reality, though, I rarely find that I need to run it wide 
open. Leaves a foot-deep would? would probably be a problem though, 
especially if they're wet.

Here's an alternate solution that I use...even on my lawn:? use a 
pressure washer with the fan spray nozzle.?? I find that it works far 
better and faster than any leaf blower that I've ever used, gas or 
otherwise.? It's also effective for slowing traffic on my street as 
drivers do a double-take to watch the guy pressure-washing his lawn.


On 2020-10-24 11:46, Scott Hall wrote:
> What's the endurance of those battery blowers? The driveway is 
> probably 400 feet all in, plus maybe 1000 sq. ft. of parking pad in 
> front of the garage.
>
> In the summers it's just grass clippings after mowing.? Right now, it 
> can get at least a foot deep in leaves.
>
> (The lot is oddly-shaped and they put the house towards the back of it.)


From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Sun Oct 25 21:43:58 2020
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2020 21:43:58 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaf blower issues...need the elders' advice
In-Reply-To: <b46c9e9d-b80a-b976-bc99-03151f45f0f0@sackheads.org>
References: <CAK73_u69cEQ1YU67rOFLOgXTmxYCveKhDdKzVAL754PM6bb8wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <A73B30EF-6CE8-43CB-8954-DB8C9CF94B2E@comcast.net>
 <CAK73_u4WohMAHfT0jOxSpYjEFHUAJiX=PCRPEjCqe+67yfBVRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <b46c9e9d-b80a-b976-bc99-03151f45f0f0@sackheads.org>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP_MMOwX38SAfNxfTA7RAGp-MiktXEX2GeNZWw9-w7ae8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I had a Troy-Bilt 4-cycle "engine on a stick" that came with a blower and
weed whacker attachments. I liked the concept enough that I purchased the
rototiller and pole saw attachments.

Flash forward 4 years or so, and I had similar issues with the engine, and
eventually took it to a small engine shop that disassembled it, declared it
"partially seized" and gave it back to me as a pile of parts.

Needless to say, I was underwhelmed both by their attitude about it and by
the lack of longevity with the device, especially given the investment in
attachments.

I ended up buying a Stihl "engine on a stick", and was quite happy to
discover that it was perfectly compatible with the Troy-Bilt attachments.
It is a two-stroke, but it uses a very high fuel:oil ratio, so it isn't too
bad on the stink-factor.

That made me happy enough that I ended up buying a Stihl MS250 chainsaw.
Unfortunately, it leaks bar oil like a sieve, so I need to take it back to
Ace Hardware and have them take care of that.

As far as battery-powered blowers are concerned, I think the 40V+ blowers
will give you plenty of volume and reasonable longevity. Get a second
battery if you're concerned it won't last long enough. I wouldn't advise it
for clearing a 0.5 acre lawn with lots of trees, but the Ryobi 40V my
parents have does quite well. My 18V Ryobi ONE+ blower doesn't have nearly
the output nor the longevity - but it only came with a 2Ah battery. The 4Ah
battery would certainly help it run longer, but it still lacks the oomph
for heavier amounts of leaves.

-Peter


On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 2:00 PM Jimmie Mayfield <
mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org> wrote:

> You have to look at the battery size. You can't simply compare amp-hours
> because, unlike most power tools where 12V and 18V are pretty much
> standard across different manufacturers, outdoor power equipment uses a
> variety of voltages...18V, 36V, 40V, 56V, 60V, 80V...and I think there
> are a few 120V designs out there now.  Instead, you can compare
> Watt-hours which is the amount of energy the battery contains.
>
> For example, my 5Ah 56V Ego batteries contain about 280 Watt-hours of
> energy, a 12Ah 18V Milwaukee battery contains 216 Watt-hours, etc.
>
> Runtime also depends on how hard you drive the motor.  If you're running
> them at wide-open, they're not going to last very long because their
> brushless motors can draw a lot of power.  I've read that Ego's motors
> are rated north of 2000 Watts.  So based on those numbers, I could
> probably expect less than 10 minutes at wide open ~600 cfm from the
> blower.  The reality, though, I rarely find that I need to run it wide
> open. Leaves a foot-deep would  would probably be a problem though,
> especially if they're wet.
>
> Here's an alternate solution that I use...even on my lawn:  use a
> pressure washer with the fan spray nozzle.   I find that it works far
> better and faster than any leaf blower that I've ever used, gas or
> otherwise.  It's also effective for slowing traffic on my street as
> drivers do a double-take to watch the guy pressure-washing his lawn.
>
>
> On 2020-10-24 11:46, Scott Hall wrote:
> > What's the endurance of those battery blowers? The driveway is
> > probably 400 feet all in, plus maybe 1000 sq. ft. of parking pad in
> > front of the garage.
> >
> > In the summers it's just grass clippings after mowing.  Right now, it
> > can get at least a foot deep in leaves.
> >
> > (The lot is oddly-shaped and they put the house towards the back of it.)
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk
> http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
>
>
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