[Shop-talk] Annealing Copper bars

[Jack Brooks]

John,

Take a look at the attached pdf, which is for a smoker, but has everything you need to know for setting up a kiln.  Just add a high amp relay (Solid State might be best) instead of the fan output.  At a minimum, it will get you moving in the right direction, as the information is good.

Remember Thermocouples are polarity sensitive.  One lead on a K-type is magnetic, making it easy to figure out.

I found a ton of great information at https://www.facebook.com/groups/516149118764276/.  It’s a private FB group called “Tech Savvy BBQ”  but very knowledgeable about PID controllers and was easy to get approved for.

Listers, I can forward this pdf to you also, as the server will strip the attachment.  Just let me know.

Jack

From: John Innis <jdinnis at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 11:36 AM
To: Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Annealing Copper bars

Sure be glad to have more info. I have done a lot of arduino projects, but have been finding the PID theory a bit of a tough nut to crack.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 1:19 PM Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com<mailto:JIBrooks at live.com>> wrote:
John,

Agreed.  I built a PID Controller setup for my smoker using a Inkjet 106-RL.  It’s a great way to go.  Now I just need to find a kiln.  I can provide some good info if you are still working on it.

Yes, aware of issues opening a 900°F oven.

Jack

From: John Innis <jdinnis at gmail.com<mailto:jdinnis at gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 10:57 AM
To: Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com<mailto:JIBrooks at live.com>>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net<mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Annealing Copper bars

Another option for you, find someone that has a kiln.  I have an old electric kiln that I got for free because it was old.  I added a simple thermocouple temperature gauge to it and it works great for annealing and heat treating small parts.  My next project is actually adding solid-state relays and a PID controller so I can do some more precise temperature control.  If you do this, or use a modified oven, do be careful.  There is a reason that oven doors lock at high temperatures.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 11:12 AM Jack Brooks <JIBrooks at live.com<mailto:JIBrooks at live.com>> wrote:
I agree, but I’m not sure at what temperature the oven will release the latch and I’m not modifying the latch on a new Inductive range. <grin>  Thought about it on the old over for making high temperature 900°F pizza, but that was the old oven…………

The path forward using the oven is probably going to be the first step.  If it gets me at or close to what I need, I will be done.  If not, I will get with my body guy and see if I can use his Oxy torch.

Thanks everyone,

Jack

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of John Innis
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 8:58 AM
To: Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com<mailto:patintexas at icloud.com>>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net<mailto:shop-talk at autox.team.net>>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Annealing Copper bars

The oven would work fine, you just need to add a quench as soon as possible when you come out.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 10:43 AM Pat Horne <patintexas at icloud.com<mailto:patintexas at icloud.com>> wrote:
So, referring back to the OP about using the oven to anneal the bars, it WOULDN’T be a good choice.

Peace,
Pat
Pat Horne
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Aug 8, 2020, at 10:03 AM, John Innis <jdinnis at gmail.com<mailto:jdinnis at gmail.com>> wrote:

This matches my understanding as well.  Brass and copper soften when quenched.  Steel and Aluminum harden when quenched.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 9:59 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net<mailto:bspidell at comcast.net>> wrote:
Could be (the plot thickens):

"Annealing copper makes it softer and less brittle, which allows you to
bend it without breaking it. This malleability allows you to hammer and
mold the copper into any shape you wish without cracking the metal. You
can anneal any grade and thickness of copper as long as you have a flame
that can transmit enough heat to the metal. The most straightforward way
to anneal copper is by heating it with an oxygen acetylene torch and
rapidly cooling it in water."

https://www.wikihow.com/Anneal-Copper



On 8/8/2020 7:43 AM, Pat Horne wrote:
> Maybe you’re right & I’m wrong! Wouldn’t be the first time.
>
> Peace,
> Pat
>
> Pat Horne
> We support Habitat for Humanity
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2020, at 9:33 AM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net<mailto:bspidell at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> Well snap. I've been doing it wrong all these years I've reused copper, mostly on sealing washers for oil pan plugs.
>
> Thanks for the reply.
> Bob
>
>
>> On 8/8/2020 7:21 AM, Pat Horne wrote:
>> I thought quenching made the metal less soft.
>>
>> Annealing requires slow cooling.
>>
>> Peace,
>> Pat
>>
>> Pat Horne
>> We support Habitat for Humanity
>>
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2020, at 9:18 AM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net<mailto:bspidell at comcast.net>> wrote:
>>
>>  Question for the List: Is it proper to quench--in water, presumably, or oil maybe--copper to achieve softness after it's been heated 'cherry red?'
>>
>> Bob
>>

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