From strovato at optonline.net Mon Nov 4 15:31:23 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 17:31:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> Message-ID: <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Two years ago, I purchased a set of Michelin tires for my Ford Expedition at BJs. It was not a great experience, and I don't think I'd do it again. The tires do come with a road hazard warranty, though, and free flat repair. I got a puncture in the right rear yesterday, so I ventured down to BJs once again. The guy there asked me if it was a front or rear tire. He said they balance them differently. He said it was "statically balanced" but on a machine that spins it and uses lasers. I don't know what he is talking about. I told him it is a rear tire, but that shouldn't matter, because it will be a front tire when I rotate them. He told me I shouldn't do that. I have to bring the vehicle to them to rotate and re-balance. None of this makes any sense to me. Have things changed drastically or is this guy nuts? I should note that all this stuff is free when you buy the tires there, so I don't really see any financial motive for them to want to do this. -Steve -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From bjzwissler at gmail.com Mon Nov 4 15:53:30 2019 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Benjamin Zwissler) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 17:53:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Well, I vote he has no clue what he's talking about. What I learned was that static and spin balancing were not the same thing. Static was done with a bubble balance without spinning. Spinning meant spinning. There was spinning on the car and spinning off the car, but I don't think anyone does it on the car anymore. I don't know why they would balance front and back differently, seems like balanced is balanced regardless of front or rear. On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 5:32 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk < shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > Two years ago, I purchased a set of Michelin tires for my Ford > Expedition at BJs. It was not a great experience, and I don't think > I'd do it again. The tires do come with a road hazard warranty, > though, and free flat repair. I got a puncture in the right rear > yesterday, so I ventured down to BJs once again. The guy there asked > me if it was a front or rear tire. He said they balance them > differently. He said it was "statically balanced" but on a machine > that spins it and uses lasers. I don't know what he is talking > about. I told him it is a rear tire, but that shouldn't matter, > because it will be a front tire when I rotate them. He told me I > shouldn't do that. I have to bring the vehicle to them to rotate and > re-balance. None of this makes any sense to me. Have things changed > drastically or is this guy nuts? I should note that all this stuff > is free when you buy the tires there, so I don't really see any > financial motive for them to want to do this. > > -Steve > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Mon Nov 4 15:55:26 2019 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 14:55:26 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: HI Steve, I believe that most tire warranties require tire rotation to be valid. If it is a Corvette with offset front and rears, I realize that you could not rotate front to rear, but for normal vehicles, this does not make sense to me... best, doug On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 2:32 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk < shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > Two years ago, I purchased a set of Michelin tires for my Ford > Expedition at BJs. It was not a great experience, and I don't think > I'd do it again. The tires do come with a road hazard warranty, > though, and free flat repair. I got a puncture in the right rear > yesterday, so I ventured down to BJs once again. The guy there asked > me if it was a front or rear tire. He said they balance them > differently. He said it was "statically balanced" but on a machine > that spins it and uses lasers. I don't know what he is talking > about. I told him it is a rear tire, but that shouldn't matter, > because it will be a front tire when I rotate them. He told me I > shouldn't do that. I have to bring the vehicle to them to rotate and > re-balance. None of this makes any sense to me. Have things changed > drastically or is this guy nuts? I should note that all this stuff > is free when you buy the tires there, so I don't really see any > financial motive for them to want to do this. > > -Steve > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at live.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Mon Nov 4 16:11:50 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 18:11:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing Message-ID: All the stuff you guys are saying is exactly what I always understood. I am quite sure they are not doing on the car balancing. Especially not for this tire, because I just brought in the loose wheel while I kept using the car with the spare. I cannot report what was actually done because the garage area is completely separate from where the customer gets to be. Maybe if it was a hot summer day I could peek in the open garage door. The main question I had is whether different balancing on front and rear was now a "thing." Apparently not. Thanks. -Steve At 05:56 PM 11/4/2019, Ian McFetridge wrote: >Got me at a loss, unless it is done on the car >and they are also balancing the rotating >assembly, do front/rear could matter.? It would >be telling to report what he actually does. > >On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 5:53 PM Benjamin Zwissler >via Shop-talk ><shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: >Well, I vote he has no clue what he's talking >about.? What I learned was that static and spin >balancing were not the same thing.? Static was >done with a bubble balance without >spinning.? Spinning meant spinning.? There was >spinning on the car and spinning off the car, >but I don't think anyone does it on the car anymore. >I don't know why they would balance front and >back differently, seems like balanced is balanced regardless of front or rear. >On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 5:32 PM Steven Trovato via >Shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > >Two years ago, I purchased a set of Michelin tires for my Ford >Expedition at BJs.? It was not a great experience, and I don't think >I'd do it again.? The tires do come with a road hazard warranty, >though, and free flat repair.? I got a puncture in the right rear >yesterday, so I ventured down to BJs once again.? The guy there asked >me if it was a front or rear tire.? He said they balance them >differently.? He said it was "statically balanced" but on a machine >that spins it and uses lasers.? I don't know what he is talking >about.? I told him it is a rear tire, but that shouldn't matter, >because it will be a front tire when I rotate them.? He told me I >shouldn't do that.? I have to bring the vehicle to them to rotate and >re-balance.? None of this makes any sense to me.? Have things changed >drastically or is this guy nuts?? I should note that all this stuff >is free when you buy the tires there, so I don't really see any >financial motive for them to want to do this. > >-Steve -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Nov 4 20:18:12 2019 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 21:18:12 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 4:32 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk wrote: > > Two years ago, I purchased a set of Michelin tires for my Ford > Expedition at BJs. It was not a great experience, and I don't think > I'd do it again. The tires do come with a road hazard warranty, > though, and free flat repair. I got a puncture in the right rear > yesterday, so I ventured down to BJs once again. The guy there asked > me if it was a front or rear tire. He said they balance them > differently. He said it was "statically balanced" but on a machine > that spins it and uses lasers. I don't know what he is talking > about. I told him it is a rear tire, but that shouldn't matter, > because it will be a front tire when I rotate them. He told me I > shouldn't do that. I have to bring the vehicle to them to rotate and > re-balance. None of this makes any sense to me. Have things changed > drastically or is this guy nuts? I should note that all this stuff > is free when you buy the tires there, so I don't really see any > financial motive for them to want to do this. There are a fair number of shops that balance the front wheels-to-be when rotating tires. Fronts cause more complaints (you tend to feel the wobble in the steering wheel), so making sure they're balance can save a come back. The fronts are probably okay, or the the customer would complain. I can't imagine any reason to balance the ends differently, and any repaired tire should be balanced. (I, of course, repaired hundreds of tires without balancing them, or dismounting for inspection, when I did this stuff for money, but I never did my own that way, and wouldn't put up with it today on a modern low profile tire.) there are wheel balancers that have lasers, but I'll the ones I've ever seen just use it to put a line where the weight goes. (this saves much time, and given most wheel techs need bibs, mistakes.) There are fancy machines that use sonar to detect the size of the wheel assembly (which it needs to know to figure out weights). again saves time and errors/ -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From 1789alpine at gmail.com Tue Nov 5 09:32:45 2019 From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:32:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System Message-ID: I need to drain and winterize my new sprinkler system and can?t imagine I need to pay someone to do that job. While I understand the ?proper? way to do it is to manually open each valve, I was told a few years ago that it is easier to just pressurize the system at the drain valve and then use the manual function on the controller to run through each zone until no more water comes out. (FWIW, my system is not that large and has 6 zones.). I was thinking about rigging something up that would allow me to attach my compressor and walk away, but found this on Amazon, which seems like a good investment that would pay for itself on the first use: https://www.amazon.com/Winterize-Sprinkler-Systems-Outdoor-Faucets/dp/B0055QAAIQ/ref=asc_df_B0055QAAIQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309735714375&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11131050794144962178&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004590&hvtargid=pla-570302725618&psc=1 . I could save around $10 and just buy a hose to quick disconnect fitting, but the shut off valve seems like a good addition. I have fairly large compressor, but think it will be more trouble than it is worth to get air to the master drain valve. Instead, I was planning on just using my Harbor Freight 8 gal portable compressor. (https://www.harborfreight.com/8-gal-2-hp-125-psi-oil-lube-air-compressor-68740.html ). My water pressure is regulated to 60 lbs, so I figured something around this should be sufficient. Am I missing anything? Is there any good reason to pay a professional to do this job? It seems like a no-brainer to me, but I?ve been called a no-brainer before. Thanks, Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jniolon at att.net Tue Nov 5 09:40:02 2019 From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 10:40:02 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30839C2AAD084141B5C13A2BDDDC4C1B@Johnsdesktop> Hi Jim. I do the same every year. My system is a little larger 1500? of pipe in 7 zones. I have a backflow preventer valve on my sprinkler main line from the house main. It has a port on each side of the valve that you can screw a male air compressor fitting into. I simply drag my hose out the box and using a standard quick coupler on the hose connect it to the male fitting on the BFP valve. Then, I manually cycle thru each zone till I get no water at the farthest sprinkler head... easy to do and doesn?t take but a minute or two on each zone. john From: Jim Stone via Shop-talk Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 10:32 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System I need to drain and winterize my new sprinkler system and can?t imagine I need to pay someone to do that job. While I understand the ?proper? way to do it is to manually open each valve, I was told a few years ago that it is easier to just pressurize the system at the drain valve and then use the manual function on the controller to run through each zone until no more water comes out. (FWIW, my system is not that large and has 6 zones.). I was thinking about rigging something up that would allow me to attach my compressor and walk away, but found this on Amazon, which seems like a good investment that would pay for itself on the first use: https://www.amazon.com/Winterize-Sprinkler-Systems-Outdoor-Faucets/dp/B0055QAAIQ/ref=asc_df_B0055QAAIQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309735714375&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11131050794144962178&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004590&hvtargid=pla-570302725618&psc=1. I could save around $10 and just buy a hose to quick disconnect fitting, but the shut off valve seems like a good addition. I have fairly large compressor, but think it will be more trouble than it is worth to get air to the master drain valve. Instead, I was planning on just using my Harbor Freight 8 gal portable compressor. (https://www.harborfreight.com/8-gal-2-hp-125-psi-oil-lube-air-compressor-68740.html). My water pressure is regulated to 60 lbs, so I figured something around this should be sufficient. Am I missing anything? Is there any good reason to pay a professional to do this job? It seems like a no-brainer to me, but I?ve been called a no-brainer before. Thanks, Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Tue Nov 5 10:07:58 2019 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:07:58 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Might be worth having a ?professional? come out once to see how it should be done. Personally, I?d just use the compressor at the drain. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity > On Nov 5, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: > ?I need to drain and winterize my new sprinkler system and can?t imagine I need to pay someone to do that job. While I understand the ?proper? way to do it is to manually open each valve, I was told a few years ago that it is easier to just pressurize the system at the drain valve and then use the manual function on the controller to run through each zone until no more water comes out. (FWIW, my system is not that large and has 6 zones.). I was thinking about rigging something up that would allow me to attach my compressor and walk away, but found this on Amazon, which seems like a good investment that would pay for itself on the first use: https://www.amazon.com/Winterize-Sprinkler-Systems-Outdoor-Faucets/dp/B0055QAAIQ/ref=asc_df_B0055QAAIQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309735714375&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11131050794144962178&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004590&hvtargid=pla-570302725618&psc=1. I could save around $10 and just buy a hose to quick disconnect fitting, but the shut off valve seems like a good addition. I have fairly large compressor, but think it will be more trouble than it is worth to get air to the master drain valve. Instead, I was planning on just using my Harbor Freight 8 gal portable compressor. (https://www.harborfreight.com/8-gal-2-hp-125-psi-oil-lube-air-compressor-68740.html). My water pressure is regulated to 60 lbs, so I figured something around this should be sufficient. Am I missing anything? Is there any good reason to pay a professional to do this job? It seems like a no-brainer to me, but I?ve been called a no-brainer before. Thanks, Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Tue Nov 5 10:16:17 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 12:16:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, I rigged up an adapter like that many years ago and I have been using it every time I need to winterize a sprinkler system, summer home or other similar tasks. I usually run a garden hose from whatever drain valve I want to the compressor. I use my adapter at the compressor end of the garden hose to connect to the air supply. I have enough garden hose that routing to the drain valve isn't really a problem. I don't need a lot of air pressure, but I blast a lot of air volume through to push the water out. My main garage compressor is my first choice, but I have used a smaller portable one and it did OK. As for purchasing that adapter, I would do it. I don't know if such a thing existed when I made mine. Twenty bucks would be worth it to me for the convenience. Of course, if you have the pieces already and you don't want to wait for an adapter to arrive, making it would also be a reasonable thing to do. I don't have a shutoff on mine and I don't really miss it. -Steve At 11:32 AM 11/5/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: >I need to drain and winterize my new sprinkler >system and can???t imagine I need to pay someone >to do that job. While I understand the >???proper??? way to do it is to manually open >each valve, I was told a few years ago that it >is easier to just pressurize the system at the >drain valve and then use the manual function on >the controller to run through each zone until no >more water comes out. (FWIW, my system is not >that large and has 6 zones.). I was thinking >about rigging something up that would allow me >to attach my compressor and walk away, but found >this on Amazon, which seems like a good >investment that would pay for itself on the >first use: >https://www.amazon.com/Winterize-Sprinkler-Systems-Outdoor-Faucets/dp/B0055QAAIQ/ref=asc_df_B0055QAAIQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309735714375&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11131050794144962178&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004590&hvtargid=pla-570302725618&psc=1. >I could save around $10 and just buy a hose to >quick disconnect fitting, but the shut off valve seems like a good addition. > >I have fairly large compressor, but think it >will be more trouble than it is worth to get air >to the master drain valve. Instead, I was >planning on just using my Harbor Freight 8 gal >portable >compressor. >(https://www.harborfreight.com/8-gal-2-hp-125-psi-oil-lube-air-compressor-68740.html). >My water pressure is regulated to 60 lbs, so I >figured something around this should be sufficient. > >Am I missing anything? Is there any good reason >to pay a professional to do this job? It seems >like a no-brainer to me, but I???ve been called a no-brainer before. > >Thanks, >Jim -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Tue Nov 5 10:20:47 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 12:20:47 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <8D.76.23065.A8FA1CD5@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Thanks Dave. All of that is in line with my understanding. It was the whole front vs back question, because they "balance them differently" that had me puzzled! Still haven't heard a good explanation for that, other than that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I think that's the conclusion I'm going with! -Steve T. At 10:18 PM 11/4/2019, David Scheidt wrote: >On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 4:32 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk > wrote: > > > > Two years ago, I purchased a set of Michelin tires for my Ford > > Expedition at BJs. It was not a great experience, and I don't think > > I'd do it again. The tires do come with a road hazard warranty, > > though, and free flat repair. I got a puncture in the right rear > > yesterday, so I ventured down to BJs once again. The guy there asked > > me if it was a front or rear tire. He said they balance them > > differently. He said it was "statically balanced" but on a machine > > that spins it and uses lasers. I don't know what he is talking > > about. I told him it is a rear tire, but that shouldn't matter, > > because it will be a front tire when I rotate them. He told me I > > shouldn't do that. I have to bring the vehicle to them to rotate and > > re-balance. None of this makes any sense to me. Have things changed > > drastically or is this guy nuts? I should note that all this stuff > > is free when you buy the tires there, so I don't really see any > > financial motive for them to want to do this. > >There are a fair number of shops that balance the front wheels-to-be >when rotating tires. Fronts cause more complaints (you tend to feel >the wobble in the steering wheel), so making sure they're balance can >save a come back. The fronts are probably okay, or the the customer >would complain. I can't imagine any reason to balance the ends >differently, and any repaired tire should be balanced. (I, of course, >repaired hundreds of tires without balancing them, or dismounting for >inspection, when I did this stuff for money, but I never did my own >that way, and wouldn't put up with it today on a modern low profile >tire.) > >there are wheel balancers that have lasers, but I'll the ones I've >ever seen just use it to put a line where the weight goes. (this >saves much time, and given most wheel techs need bibs, mistakes.) >There are fancy machines that use sonar to detect the size of the >wheel assembly (which it needs to know to figure out weights). again >saves time and errors/ > >-- >David Scheidt >dmscheidt at gmail.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From 1789alpine at gmail.com Tue Nov 5 10:48:50 2019 From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:48:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, guys. I just bought the adapter; it will be here on Thursday, well ahead of any freezing temperatures. John?s comment about a backflow preventer valve does have me rethinking one aspect of my plan. The system installer put in an outside hose barb that he intended for blowing out the system, but I had thought it made sense to move ahead of that and start where the system originates in the basement. I can isolate the sprinkler from the rest of the system and blow it out from there. Unless there is a good reason not to do it that. If there is a backflow preventer valve between the hose barb and the basement, might there be a problem blowing it out from there? Jim > On Nov 5, 2019, at 12:16 PM, Steven Trovato via Shop-talk wrote: > > Jim, > I rigged up an adapter like that many years ago and I have been using it every time I need to winterize a sprinkler system, summer home or other similar tasks. I usually run a garden hose from whatever drain valve I want to the compressor. I use my adapter at the compressor end of the garden hose to connect to the air supply. I have enough garden hose that routing to the drain valve isn't really a problem. I don't need a lot of air pressure, but I blast a lot of air volume through to push the water out. My main garage compressor is my first choice, but I have used a smaller portable one and it did OK. As for purchasing that adapter, I would do it. I don't know if such a thing existed when I made mine. Twenty bucks would be worth it to me for the convenience. Of course, if you have the pieces already and you don't want to wait for an adapter to arrive, making it would also be a reasonable thing to do. I don't have a shutoff on mine and I don't really miss it. > > -Steve > > At 11:32 AM 11/5/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: >> I need to drain and winterize my new sprinkler system and can???t imagine I need to pay someone to do that job. While I understand the ???proper??? way to do it is to manually open each valve, I was told a few years ago that it is easier to just pressurize the system at the drain valve and then use the manual function on the controller to run through each zone until no more water comes out. (FWIW, my system is not that large and has 6 zones.). I was thinking about rigging something up that would allow me to attach my compressor and walk away, but found this on Amazon, which seems like a good investment that would pay for itself on the first use: https://www.amazon.com/Winterize-Sprinkler-Systems-Outdoor-Faucets/dp/B0055QAAIQ/ref=asc_df_B0055QAAIQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309735714375&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11131050794144962178&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004590&hvtargid=pla-570302725618&psc=1 . I could save around $10 and just buy a hose to quick disconnect fitting, but the shut off valve seems like a good addition. >> >> I have fairly large compressor, but think it will be more trouble than it is worth to get air to the master drain valve. Instead, I was planning on just using my Harbor Freight 8 gal portable compressor. ( https://www.harborfreight.com/8-gal-2-hp-125-psi-oil-lube-air-compressor-68740.html ). My water pressure is regulated to 60 lbs, so I figured something around this should be sufficient. >> >> Am I missing anything? Is there any good reason to pay a professional to do this job? It seems like a no-brainer to me, but I???ve been called a no-brainer before. >> >> Thanks, >> Jim > > Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Tue Nov 5 11:07:36 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:07:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's what I always did. The air you are introducing is going in the same direction as the usual water flow so it passes through without any problem. -Steve At 12:48 PM 11/5/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: >Thanks, guys. I just bought the adapter; it >will be here on Thursday, well ahead of any freezing temperatures. > >John???s comment about a backflow preventer >valve does have me rethinking one aspect of my >plan. The system installer put in an outside >hose barb that he intended for blowing out the >system, but I had thought it made sense to move >ahead of that and start where the system >originates in the basement. I can isolate the >sprinkler from the rest of the system and blow >it out from there. Unless there is a good >reason not to do it that. If there is a >backflow preventer valve between the hose barb >and the basement, might there be a problem blowing it out from there? > >Jim -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From strovato at optonline.net Tue Nov 5 11:14:33 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:14:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B.18.03419.F1CB1CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I shouldn't really be speaking for John, but I think he is just saying that his backflow preventer has a convenient port that he uses to connect. I don't think he is saying that the backflow preventer presents any other problem for the operation. I am sure John will let us know if I am correct. -Steve T. At 12:48 PM 11/5/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: >Thanks, guys. I just bought the adapter; it >will be here on Thursday, well ahead of any freezing temperatures. > >John???s comment about a backflow preventer >valve does have me rethinking one aspect of my >plan. The system installer put in an outside >hose barb that he intended for blowing out the >system, but I had thought it made sense to move >ahead of that and start where the system >originates in the basement. I can isolate the >sprinkler from the rest of the system and blow >it out from there. Unless there is a good >reason not to do it that. If there is a >backflow preventer valve between the hose barb >and the basement, might there be a problem blowing it out from there? > >Jim -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Nov 5 11:21:11 2019 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 12:21:11 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: I don't know that this is relevant, but the manual for my on-the-car balancer (an antique so old it actually uses vacuum tubes) talks about "static" and "dynamic" imbalance as two different tire/wheel conditions. Its sensor only works in one direction, so first you check for the tire hopping up and down (which it call static imbalance), then for wobble from side to side (dynamic). IIRC, the dynamic check is only done on the front axle. -- Randall -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Tue Nov 5 11:40:39 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:40:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <6A.75.13198.542C1CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> That's interesting. I always thought of static balancing as being done with a bubble balancer sitting still on the floor. And any balancing with the wheel actually spinning I would call dynamic. They obviously use the terms differently. I imagine it wouldn't hurt any if you did both for the rear as well, even if it isn't necessary. The whole premise of on-the-car balancing is that you don't want to move the tires around. Even if you remove and replace a wheel, you want to mark it so you put the same lug studs through the same wheel holes. I would think in modern off-the-car balancing they should just balance all of the wheels the best they can regardless of position. I suppose they could use a lower standard for the rears, but that seems pretty lame to me. -Steve At 01:21 PM 11/5/2019, Randall via Shop-talk wrote: >I don't know that this is relevant, but the manual for my on-the-car >balancer (an antique so old it actually uses vacuum tubes) talks >about "static" and "dynamic" imbalance as two different tire/wheel >conditions. Its sensor only works in one direction, so first you >check for the tire hopping up and down (which it call static >imbalance), then for wobble from side to side (dynamic). IIRC, the >dynamic check is only done on the front axle. >-- Randall -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jniolon at att.net Tue Nov 5 12:20:37 2019 From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 13:20:37 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: <4B.18.03419.F1CB1CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <4B.18.03419.F1CB1CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <5D224FD74C71461296FDE6CE228E9A5D@Johnsdesktop> You are correct Steve.... the port on the BFP valve is down stream of the check valve on the sprinkler side of the valve so the BFP offers no resistance or blockage for the air at this point... really convenient for doing what we???re discussing. j -----Original Message----- From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 12:14 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System I shouldn't really be speaking for John, but I think he is just saying that his backflow preventer has a convenient port that he uses to connect. I don't think he is saying that the backflow preventer presents any other problem for the operation. I am sure John will let us know if I am correct. -Steve T. At 12:48 PM 11/5/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: >Thanks, guys. I just bought the adapter; it will be here on Thursday, well >ahead of any freezing temperatures. > >John????????s comment about a backflow preventer valve does have me rethinking >one aspect of my plan. The system installer put in an outside hose barb >that he intended for blowing out the system, but I had thought it made >sense to move ahead of that and start where the system originates in the >basement. I can isolate the sprinkler from the rest of the system and blow >it out from there. Unless there is a good reason not to do it that. If >there is a backflow preventer valve between the hose barb and the basement, >might there be a problem blowing it out from there? > >Jim -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net From dhlocker at comcast.net Tue Nov 5 12:29:15 2019 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:29:15 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: <6A.75.13198.542C1CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <6A.75.13198.542C1CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Static vs. Dynamic - consider a yardstick (or metre-stick) with equal weights on either end. With one weight mounted an inch below the stick, the other three inches below, with both equidistant from the center of the stick. This is statically balanced similar to a balance - neither side will tend to rise or fall. BUT if you put an axle through it and rotate it about that axis, the weights will try to rotate about a point two inches below the yardstick and will alternately pull it up and down a bit with each revolution. Putting both weights equidistant radially and axially (which is what dynamic balancing does) removes that wobbling force. Here is some ASCII art (best viewed in a fixed-width font.) Static balance only??????????? Static and Dynamic balance ---------------+--------------- ---------------+--------------- Wt ? ? ? ? ? ? | ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | ?????????????? | ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Wt ? ? ? ? ? ? | ? ? Wt ?????????????? | ? ? ? ? ? ? Wt Donald. On 05-Nov-2019 13:40, Steven Trovato via Shop-talk wrote: > That's interesting.? I always thought of static balancing as being done > with a bubble balancer sitting still on the floor.? And any balancing > with the wheel actually spinning I would call dynamic. They obviously use > the terms differently.? I imagine it wouldn't hurt any if you did both > for the rear as well, even if it isn't necessary.? The whole premise of > on-the-car balancing is that you don't want to move the tires around.? > Even if you remove and replace a wheel, you want to mark it so you put > the same lug studs through the same wheel holes.? I would think in modern > off-the-car balancing they should just balance all of the wheels the best > they can regardless of position.? I suppose they could use a lower > standard for the rears, but that seems pretty lame to me. > > -Steve > > At 01:21 PM 11/5/2019, Randall via Shop-talk wrote: >> I don't know that this is relevant, but the manual for my on-the-car >> balancer (an antique so old it actually uses vacuum tubes) talks about >> "static" and "dynamic" imbalance as two different tire/wheel conditions. >> Its sensor only works in one direction, so first you check for the tire >> hopping up and down (which it call static imbalance), then for wobble >> from side to side (dynamic). IIRC, the dynamic check is only done on the >> front axle. >> -- Randall > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 1789alpine at gmail.com Tue Nov 5 15:40:29 2019 From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 17:40:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: <5D224FD74C71461296FDE6CE228E9A5D@Johnsdesktop> References: <4B.18.03419.F1CB1CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <5D224FD74C71461296FDE6CE228E9A5D@Johnsdesktop> Message-ID: <2BE91E54-921C-4418-BD8F-EEF0B6C31A03@gmail.com> Thanks guys. > On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:20 PM, john niolon via Shop-talk wrote: > > You are correct Steve.... the port on the BFP valve is down stream of the check valve on the sprinkler side of the valve so the BFP offers no resistance or blockage for the air at this point... really convenient for doing what we???re discussing. > > j > > -----Original Message----- From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 12:14 PM > To: Shop Talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System > > I shouldn't really be speaking for John, but I > think he is just saying that his backflow > preventer has a convenient port that he uses to > connect. I don't think he is saying that the > backflow preventer presents any other problem for > the operation. I am sure John will let us know if I am correct. > > -Steve T. > > At 12:48 PM 11/5/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: >> Thanks, guys. I just bought the adapter; it will be here on Thursday, well ahead of any freezing temperatures. >> >> John????????s comment about a backflow preventer valve does have me rethinking one aspect of my plan. The system installer put in an outside hose barb that he intended for blowing out the system, but I had thought it made sense to move ahead of that and start where the system originates in the basement. I can isolate the sprinkler from the rest of the system and blow it out from there. Unless there is a good reason not to do it that. If there is a backflow preventer valve between the hose barb and the basement, might there be a problem blowing it out from there? >> >> Jim > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com > From jniolon at att.net Tue Nov 5 15:44:06 2019 From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 16:44:06 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] keeping the smoke in----fuse selection for a circuit References: <08D0079D8B6442B4B94026E88965019E.ref@Johnsdesktop> Message-ID: <08D0079D8B6442B4B94026E88965019E@Johnsdesktop> I?m wiring for my power seats in my truck project. My wiring harness didn't include this circuit so I'm coming off a battery termination point. Thinking about fusing each seat. The internal wiring is 14 ga and doing a amp check I read from 3-6 amps with any of the 3 motors (tilt/raise/for-back) running and around 12 amps when you hit the stops and the motor stalls. I know 14 ga is good for 18-20 amps but I'm trying to decide how much to fuse it.. I wanna keep the smoke inside but don't want to fuse too high.... would you consider a percentage over stall amp draw or running amp draw..... and what safety factor ?? I should already know this at my age... john https://jniolon.classicpickup.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhlocker at comcast.net Tue Nov 5 16:16:16 2019 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 18:16:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] keeping the smoke in----fuse selection for a circuit In-Reply-To: <08D0079D8B6442B4B94026E88965019E@Johnsdesktop> References: <08D0079D8B6442B4B94026E88965019E.ref@Johnsdesktop> <08D0079D8B6442B4B94026E88965019E@Johnsdesktop> Message-ID: <4c141533-e904-51e4-9eff-047e91d97965@comcast.net> Fuse for the wire size; smoke escaping from the wire is a fire hazard. If the motor stall current is consistent at 12A, I'd go with 15A fuses - enough to cover the motor loads but only just enough. (A 15A automotive fuse will carry 15A forever (c.f. https://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/automotive/datasheets/fuses/passenger-car-and-commercial-vehicle/blade-fuses/littelfuse_mini_datasheet.pdf and http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bussmann/Electrical/Resources/product-datasheets-b/bus-ele-ds-2009-atc.pdf) but will fuse in 750ms at 20A HTH, Donald. -- *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ On 2019-11-05 5:44 p.m., john niolon via Shop-talk wrote: > I?m wiring for my power seats in my truck project. My wiring harness > didn't include this circuit so I'm coming off a battery termination > point. Thinking about fusing each seat. The internal wiring is 14 ga and > doing a amp check I read from 3-6 amps with any of the 3 motors > (tilt/raise/for-back) running and around 12 amps when you hit the stops > and the motor stalls. I know 14 ga is good for 18-20 amps but I'm trying > to decide how much to fuse it.. I wanna keep the smoke inside but don't > want to fuse too high.... would you consider a percentage over stall amp > draw or running amp draw..... and what safety factor ??? I should > already know this at my age... > > > john > > https://jniolon.classicpickup.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net > From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Nov 5 20:04:03 2019 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 21:04:03 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] keeping the smoke in----fuse selection for a circuit In-Reply-To: <08D0079D8B6442B4B94026E88965019E@Johnsdesktop> References: <08D0079D8B6442B4B94026E88965019E.ref@Johnsdesktop> <08D0079D8B6442B4B94026E88965019E@Johnsdesktop> Message-ID: I would seriously consider a 20 amp circuit breaker instead of a fuse. Perhaps they aren?t all that way, but on my cars with power seats, you can run 2 or 3 of the motors at the same time. Tilt, for example, runs the front motor up and the rear motor down. -- Randall From: john niolon via Shop-talk Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 4:44 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] keeping the smoke in----fuse selection for a circuit I?m wiring for my power seats in my truck project. My wiring harness didn't include this circuit so I'm coming off a battery termination point. Thinking about fusing each seat. The internal wiring is 14 ga and doing a amp check I read from 3-6 amps with any of the 3 motors (tilt/raise/for-back) running and around 12 amps when you hit the stops and the motor stalls. I know 14 ga is good for 18-20 amps but I'm trying to decide how much to fuse it.. I wanna keep the smoke inside but don't want to fuse too high.... would you consider a percentage over stall amp draw or running amp draw..... and what safety factor ??? I should already know this at my age... john ? https://jniolon.classicpickup.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Wed Nov 6 20:15:50 2019 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 19:15:50 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] keeping the smoke in----fuse selection for a circuit (Randall) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's not just keeping the smoke in, it's also getting enough power to the motors in question.? I would also recommend you consider voltage drop in the wires, not just maximum carrying capacity.? 14 gauge wiring running 20 amps will drop about 0.5 volts for every 10 feet of wire. If you are going from a battery, to a switch in a door, over to the motor, then back to the battery you can easily drop a volt or more.? This may or may not be a problem, depends on your application.? Planning ahead makes it fall into the may not be category more often. Regards, Mark Miller 707-490-5834 markmiller at threeboysfarm.com anyone looking for a great winter project? Looking to rehome a 64 dodge dart GT convertible. Complete, but needs some love. And paint and bodywork. And interior. And roof. On 11/6/2019 11:00 AM, shop-talk-request at autox.team.net wrote: > Send Shop-talk mailing list submissions to > shop-talk at autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > shop-talk-request at autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > shop-talk-owner at autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Shop-talk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: keeping the smoke in----fuse selection for a circuit (Randall) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 21:04:03 -0600 > From: Randall > To: john niolon , shop-talk > > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] keeping the smoke in----fuse selection for a > circuit > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I would seriously consider a 20 amp circuit breaker instead of a fuse. > > Perhaps they aren?t all that way, but on my cars with power seats, you can run 2 or 3 of the motors at the same time. Tilt, for example, runs the front motor up and the rear motor down. > > -- Randall > > From: john niolon via Shop-talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 4:44 PM > To: shop-talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] keeping the smoke in----fuse selection for a circuit > > I?m wiring for my power seats in my truck project. My wiring harness didn't include this circuit so I'm coming off a battery termination point. Thinking about fusing each seat. The internal wiring is 14 ga and doing a amp check I read from 3-6 amps with any of the 3 motors (tilt/raise/for-back) running and around 12 amps when you hit the stops and the motor stalls. I know 14 ga is good for 18-20 amps but I'm trying to decide how much to fuse it.. I wanna keep the smoke inside but don't want to fuse too high.... would you consider a percentage over stall amp draw or running amp draw..... and what safety factor ??? I should already know this at my age... > > > john > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From 1789alpine at gmail.com Fri Nov 8 06:24:22 2019 From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 08:24:22 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Amazon adaptor arrived yesterday, so I thought I?d update this with some new information. The adaptor was well made and the shut-off valve proved to be very handy; it was well worth the $20. It also came with excellent instructions that mostly agreed with what was said here, with one exception: it said ?avoid blowing compressed air through the PVB because doing so may damage the BVP.? I assume my system has a BVP in it, but can?t find it and just went ahead and blew it out from the basement as discussed. The instructions also recommend that the compressor should be "as large as possible, preferably 15 gallons or larger.? I think that is good advice, as my little HF 8 gallon compressor was barely (I think) up to the task. I initially set it to 50 lbs, the recommended pressure, but it was only putting out about 40 lbs during use, so I turned that up to get it a little higher. Even so, the compressor would fully extend the spray heads for the first 15 seconds or so, then just bubble water out with the head retracted. The compressor ran constantly while the system was on, so I gave it a rest between blowing out each zone. I also blew out each zone at least three times, but there was sill some spray at the beginning each time. I am going to do it one more time today, but know it won?t be completely dry. I assume it won?t be an issue when the little bit of water remaining in the system freezes, but someone please let me know if I am wrong about this. My 60 gal compressor is about 150 yards away from the water inlet, but I could make that work if necessary. Just in time, as the cold weather arrived today, with the first below freezing temps expected tonight. Cheers, Jim > On Nov 5, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote: > > I need to drain and winterize my new sprinkler system and can?t imagine I need to pay someone to do that job. While I understand the ?proper? way to do it is to manually open each valve, I was told a few years ago that it is easier to just pressurize the system at the drain valve and then use the manual function on the controller to run through each zone until no more water comes out. (FWIW, my system is not that large and has 6 zones.). I was thinking about rigging something up that would allow me to attach my compressor and walk away, but found this on Amazon, which seems like a good investment that would pay for itself on the first use: https://www.amazon.com/Winterize-Sprinkler-Systems-Outdoor-Faucets/dp/B0055QAAIQ/ref=asc_df_B0055QAAIQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309735714375&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11131050794144962178&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004590&hvtargid=pla-570302725618&psc=1 . I could save around $10 and just buy a hose to quick disconnect fitting, but the shut off valve seems like a good addition. > > I have fairly large compressor, but think it will be more trouble than it is worth to get air to the master drain valve. Instead, I was planning on just using my Harbor Freight 8 gal portable compressor. (https://www.harborfreight.com/8-gal-2-hp-125-psi-oil-lube-air-compressor-68740.html ). My water pressure is regulated to 60 lbs, so I figured something around this should be sufficient. > > Am I missing anything? Is there any good reason to pay a professional to do this job? It seems like a no-brainer to me, but I?ve been called a no-brainer before. > > Thanks, > Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Nov 8 07:47:36 2019 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 09:47:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, I'm going to assume this is a similar thing to winterizing a swimming pool. For pools, there are frequent warnings abounot using a compressor to blow the lines, or to make sure to keep the PSI below 20. It is frequently mentioned that a shop vac or dedicated blower tool is preferred. The thought is that to remove the air high pressure is not the goal (and that high pressure and damage the PVC pipe and related fittings) but rather high volume. And that a shop vac is the better way to achieve that. At least that's what the internet said. I used my compressor, set to 15 psi. I guess we'll know in the spring how I did--it just hit 18 degrees here this morning. It sounds like your sprinkler system operates similarly. On Fri, Nov 8, 2019, 8:24 AM Jim Stone via Shop-talk < shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > The Amazon adaptor arrived yesterday, so I thought I?d update this with > some new information. The adaptor was well made and the shut-off valve > proved to be very handy; it was well worth the $20. It also came with > excellent instructions that mostly agreed with what was said here, with one > exception: it said ?avoid blowing compressed air through the PVB because > doing so may damage the BVP.? I assume my system has a BVP in it, but > can?t find it and just went ahead and blew it out from the basement as > discussed. > > The instructions also recommend that the compressor should be "as large as > possible, preferably 15 gallons or larger.? I think that is good advice, > as my little HF 8 gallon compressor was barely (I think) up to the task. I > initially set it to 50 lbs, the recommended pressure, but it was only > putting out about 40 lbs during use, so I turned that up to get it a little > higher. Even so, the compressor would fully extend the spray heads for the > first 15 seconds or so, then just bubble water out with the head > retracted. The compressor ran constantly while the system was on, so I > gave it a rest between blowing out each zone. I also blew out each zone at > least three times, but there was sill some spray at the beginning each > time. I am going to do it one more time today, but know it won?t be > completely dry. I assume it won?t be an issue when the little bit of water > remaining in the system freezes, but someone please let me know if I am > wrong about this. My 60 gal compressor is about 150 yards away from the > water inlet, but I could make that work if necessary. > > Just in time, as the cold weather arrived today, with the first below > freezing temps expected tonight. > > Cheers, > Jim > > On Nov 5, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Jim Stone <1789alpine at gmail.com> wrote: > > I need to drain and winterize my new sprinkler system and can?t imagine I > need to pay someone to do that job. While I understand the ?proper? way to > do it is to manually open each valve, I was told a few years ago that it is > easier to just pressurize the system at the drain valve and then use the > manual function on the controller to run through each zone until no more > water comes out. (FWIW, my system is not that large and has 6 zones.). I > was thinking about rigging something up that would allow me to attach my > compressor and walk away, but found this on Amazon, which seems like a good > investment that would pay for itself on the first use: > https://www.amazon.com/Winterize-Sprinkler-Systems-Outdoor-Faucets/dp/B0055QAAIQ/ref=asc_df_B0055QAAIQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309735714375&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11131050794144962178&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004590&hvtargid=pla-570302725618&psc=1. > I could save around $10 and just buy a hose to quick disconnect fitting, > but the shut off valve seems like a good addition. > > I have fairly large compressor, but think it will be more trouble than it > is worth to get air to the master drain valve. Instead, I was planning on > just using my Harbor Freight 8 gal portable compressor. ( > https://www.harborfreight.com/8-gal-2-hp-125-psi-oil-lube-air-compressor-68740.html). > My water pressure is regulated to 60 lbs, so I figured something around > this should be sufficient. > > Am I missing anything? Is there any good reason to pay a professional to > do this job? It seems like a no-brainer to me, but I?ve been called a > no-brainer before. > > Thanks, > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strovato at optonline.net Fri Nov 8 07:51:16 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 09:51:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C.3F.03419.B0185CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> It sounds like you have it under control. I assume you are talking about a backflow prevention valve? BPV = PVB = BVP? Apparently, there are different types of these and there are different places they can be installed, depending on local codes and whether the original installer did it right. I never worried about it and never had a problem. The way my system is, I can't really think of another way. Your experience with the large vs small compressor is the same as mine. It is not the pressure, it is the volume of air that you need. I found that the larger compressor was better, but the small one was good enough. And yes, I never got mine 100% dry. It was just drained enough that no water would freeze and expand enough to break anything. I think you did fine. I don't think a professional service company would do more than that. -Steve At 08:24 AM 11/8/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: >The Amazon adaptor arrived yesterday, so I >thought I???d update this with some new >information. The adaptor was well made and the >shut-off valve proved to be very handy; it was >well worth the $20. It also came with excellent >instructions that mostly agreed with what was >said here, with one exception: it said ???avoid >blowing compressed air through the PVB because >doing so may damage the BVP.??? I assume my >system has a BVP in it, but can???t find it and >just went ahead and blew it out from the basement as discussed. > >The instructions also recommend that the >compressor should be "as large as possible, >preferably 15 gallons or larger.??? I think >that is good advice, as my little HF 8 gallon >compressor was barely (I think) up to the >task. I initially set it to 50 lbs, the >recommended pressure, but it was only putting >out about 40 lbs during use, so I turned that up >to get it a little higher. Even so, the >compressor would fully extend the spray heads >for the first 15 seconds or so, then just bubble >water out with the head retracted. The >compressor ran constantly while the system was >on, so I gave it a rest between blowing out each >zone. I also blew out each zone at least three >times, but there was sill some spray at the >beginning each time. I am going to do it one >more time today, but know it won???t be >completely dry. I assume it won???t be an issue >when the little bit of water remaining in the >system freezes, but someone please let me know >if I am wrong about this. My 60 gal compressor >is about 150 yards away from the water inlet, >but I could make that work if necessary. > >Just in time, as the cold weather arrived today, >with the first below freezing temps expected tonight. > >Cheers, >Jim From strovato at optonline.net Fri Nov 8 08:02:05 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 10:02:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E.50.23065.A8385CD5@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I am not sure if that is a good assumption. A swimming pool is a closed system designed to operate at whatever pressure the pump produces. A sprinkler system is designed to operate at the pressure of the water supply. A sprinkler system may have hundreds of feet of tubing. I used a shop vac to drain lines on a hot tub. I can't imagine doing my whole sprinkler system that way. I am certainly no authority on this. I can just tell you what I did. If I was going to do some more research, though, I would try to find something on how to winterize a sprinkler system, rather than a swimming pool. -Steve At 09:47 AM 11/8/2019, Scott Hall via Shop-talk wrote: >Jim, > >I'm going to assume this is a similar thing to >winterizing a swimming pool.? ? > >For pools, there are frequent warnings abounot >using a compressor to blow the lines, or to make >sure to keep the PSI below 20.? ? > >It is frequently mentioned that a shop vac or >dedicated blower tool is preferred.? The >thought is that to remove the air high pressure >is not the goal (and that high pressure and >damage the PVC pipe and related fittings) but >rather high volume.? And that a shop vac is the better way to achieve that.? > >At least that's what the internet said.? > >I used my compressor, set to 15 psi.? I guess >we'll know in the spring how I did--it just hit >18 degrees here this morning.? ? > >It sounds like your sprinkler system operates similarly.? ? From fishplate at gmail.com Sat Nov 9 14:58:27 2019 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 16:58:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Hatchet Message-ID: Well, I've destroyed my ancient Plumb 14 inch hatchet. I probably shouldn't have abused it... Anyone bought a quality hatchet lately that they'd recommend? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bk13 at earthlink.net Sat Nov 9 16:05:48 2019 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 15:05:48 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Hatchet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4500ee94-ca5e-3d00-bac1-3557e374b137@earthlink.net> A traditional hatchet is surprisingly hard to find at local retailers. The first two here are options you can likely pickup. https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=hatchet I have the fiberglass handle version and it works fine.? Seems to hold an edge ok. Brian On 11/9/2019 1:58 PM, Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk wrote: > Well, I've destroyed my ancient Plumb 14 inch hatchet.? I probably > shouldn't have abused it... > > Anyone bought a quality hatchet lately that they'd recommend? > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Nov 10 08:26:35 2019 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 09:26:35 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Hatchet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <641FAE12-8FAF-4347-A9FB-D3C585F8DD6E@gmail.com> > On Nov 9, 2019, at 15:58, Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk wrote: > > Well, I've destroyed my ancient Plumb 14 inch hatchet. I probably shouldn't have abused it... > > Anyone bought a quality hatchet lately that they'd recommend? I have been using a Vaughn rigging axe as a camp hatchet. I did some thinning of the edge with a file and then put arazor edge on it. Holds an edge well, does all the things I want a small axe to do. If you use the poll to hit with, it might not work for you. But I rather have the hammer head > From 1789alpine at gmail.com Sun Nov 10 08:36:56 2019 From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 10:36:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Hatchet In-Reply-To: <641FAE12-8FAF-4347-A9FB-D3C585F8DD6E@gmail.com> References: <641FAE12-8FAF-4347-A9FB-D3C585F8DD6E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1AD998CA-8A22-4F31-87F5-B33561262D9A@gmail.com> Have you thought about eBay? There are hundreds of ?vintage? Plumb hatchets listed. Looking at sold listings turns up some that look barely used for around $30. >> On Nov 9, 2019, at 15:58, Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk wrote: >> >> Well, I've destroyed my ancient Plumb 14 inch hatchet. I probably shouldn't have abused it... >> >> Anyone bought a quality hatchet lately that they'd recommend? > > I_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com > From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Mon Nov 4 15:56:53 2019 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (Ian McFetridge) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 17:56:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Got me at a loss, unless it is done on the car and they are also balancing the rotating assembly, do front/rear could matter. It would be telling to report what he actually does. On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 5:53 PM Benjamin Zwissler via Shop-talk < shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > Well, I vote he has no clue what he's talking about. What I learned was > that static and spin balancing were not the same thing. Static was done > with a bubble balance without spinning. Spinning meant spinning. There > was spinning on the car and spinning off the car, but I don't think anyone > does it on the car anymore. > > I don't know why they would balance front and back differently, seems like > balanced is balanced regardless of front or rear. > > On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 5:32 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk < > shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > >> Two years ago, I purchased a set of Michelin tires for my Ford >> Expedition at BJs. It was not a great experience, and I don't think >> I'd do it again. The tires do come with a road hazard warranty, >> though, and free flat repair. I got a puncture in the right rear >> yesterday, so I ventured down to BJs once again. The guy there asked >> me if it was a front or rear tire. He said they balance them >> differently. He said it was "statically balanced" but on a machine >> that spins it and uses lasers. I don't know what he is talking >> about. I told him it is a rear tire, but that shouldn't matter, >> because it will be a front tire when I rotate them. He told me I >> shouldn't do that. I have to bring the vehicle to them to rotate and >> re-balance. None of this makes any sense to me. Have things changed >> drastically or is this guy nuts? I should note that all this stuff >> is free when you buy the tires there, so I don't really see any >> financial motive for them to want to do this. >> >> -Steve >> >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Tue Nov 5 12:34:17 2019 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (Ian McFetridge) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 14:34:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: <5D224FD74C71461296FDE6CE228E9A5D@Johnsdesktop> References: <4B.18.03419.F1CB1CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <5D224FD74C71461296FDE6CE228E9A5D@Johnsdesktop> Message-ID: If you have any slope in your yard, blow out from top to bottom zone. I also remove my backflow over winter. On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:20 PM john niolon via Shop-talk < shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > You are correct Steve.... the port on the BFP valve is down stream of the > check valve on the sprinkler side of the valve so the BFP offers no > resistance or blockage for the air at this point... really convenient for > doing what we???re discussing. > > j > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 12:14 PM > To: Shop Talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System > > I shouldn't really be speaking for John, but I > think he is just saying that his backflow > preventer has a convenient port that he uses to > connect. I don't think he is saying that the > backflow preventer presents any other problem for > the operation. I am sure John will let us know if I am correct. > > -Steve T. > > At 12:48 PM 11/5/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: > >Thanks, guys. I just bought the adapter; it will be here on Thursday, > well > >ahead of any freezing temperatures. > > > >John????????s comment about a backflow preventer valve does have me > rethinking > >one aspect of my plan. The system installer put in an outside hose barb > >that he intended for blowing out the system, but I had thought it made > >sense to move ahead of that and start where the system originates in the > >basement. I can isolate the sprinkler from the rest of the system and > blow > >it out from there. Unless there is a good reason not to do it that. If > >there is a backflow preventer valve between the hose barb and the > basement, > >might there be a problem blowing it out from there? > > > >Jim > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 1789alpine at gmail.com Sun Nov 10 10:55:16 2019 From: 1789alpine at gmail.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 12:55:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System In-Reply-To: References: <4B.18.03419.F1CB1CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <5D224FD74C71461296FDE6CE228E9A5D@Johnsdesktop> Message-ID: <63EC229F-845B-494F-A4D0-8BEDEB11C427@gmail.com> Good point! There is about 30? of back to front slope in my lot. Fortunately, and really just by accident, the zones pretty much run back to front and I blew them out in order the first few times, then in reverse order to be safe. I think I?ll be ok this year, but definitely something to keep in mind for the future! > On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Ian McFetridge via Shop-talk wrote: > > > If you have any slope in your yard, blow out from top to bottom zone. I also remove my backflow over winter. > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 2:20 PM john niolon via Shop-talk > wrote: > You are correct Steve.... the port on the BFP valve is down stream of the > check valve on the sprinkler side of the valve so the BFP offers no > resistance or blockage for the air at this point... really convenient for > doing what we???re discussing. > > j > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 12:14 PM > To: Shop Talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Winterizing Sprinkler System > > I shouldn't really be speaking for John, but I > think he is just saying that his backflow > preventer has a convenient port that he uses to > connect. I don't think he is saying that the > backflow preventer presents any other problem for > the operation. I am sure John will let us know if I am correct. > > -Steve T. > > At 12:48 PM 11/5/2019, Jim Stone via Shop-talk wrote: > >Thanks, guys. I just bought the adapter; it will be here on Thursday, well > >ahead of any freezing temperatures. > > > >John????????s comment about a backflow preventer valve does have me rethinking > >one aspect of my plan. The system installer put in an outside hose barb > >that he intended for blowing out the system, but I had thought it made > >sense to move ahead of that and start where the system originates in the > >basement. I can isolate the sprinkler from the rest of the system and blow > >it out from there. Unless there is a good reason not to do it that. If > >there is a backflow preventer valve between the hose barb and the basement, > >might there be a problem blowing it out from there? > > > >Jim > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/1789alpine at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com Sun Nov 10 11:58:58 2019 From: tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com (Tim .) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 18:58:58 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing In-Reply-To: <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <003901d58abc$09225f70$1b671e50$@GMail.com> , <3A.EA.13198.FD6A0CD5@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Were it me, find the contact form on the company's web site, explain what you were told and ask for clarification about their methods, explanations, etc. just my .002 tim ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Steven Trovato via Shop-talk Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 4:31 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] tire balancing Two years ago, I purchased a set of Michelin tires for my Ford Expedition at BJs. It was not a great experience, and I don't think I'd do it again. The tires do come with a road hazard warranty, though, and free flat repair. I got a puncture in the right rear yesterday, so I ventured down to BJs once again. The guy there asked me if it was a front or rear tire. He said they balance them differently. He said it was "statically balanced" but on a machine that spins it and uses lasers. I don't know what he is talking about. I told him it is a rear tire, but that shouldn't matter, because it will be a front tire when I rotate them. He told me I shouldn't do that. I have to bring the vehicle to them to rotate and re-balance. None of this makes any sense to me. Have things changed drastically or is this guy nuts? I should note that all this stuff is free when you buy the tires there, so I don't really see any financial motive for them to want to do this. -Steve -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tims_datsun_stuff at outlook.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sun Nov 10 13:00:31 2019 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 15:00:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plug for 14/2 solid wire? Message-ID: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> I'm addinng external carriage lights and have a 50' roll of 14/2 Romex I'd like to use up, not to mention 50' of 14/2 stranded is almost $1/ft. I'd like to have the lights on a timer. I have outlets in the garage, and I happen to have a mechanical timer that you'd use for a livingroom lamp, etc. Can I use a regular add-on plug that you'd normally use with stranded wire and just attach the Romex to it? Are there plugs made for solid wire? I could always use the Romex to extend the circuit to near the carriage lights and install an outlet for the timer and buy short lamp cord, but that means a trip to the store. That might turn out to be the most time/cost/safety efficient method, but if I don't have to get into the car AGAIN... thanks, jim -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1386 bytes Desc: not available URL: From patintexas at icloud.com Sun Nov 10 13:36:31 2019 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 14:36:31 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plug for 14/2 solid wire? In-Reply-To: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> References: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <0F92F4F2-BE53-48B2-8C2B-7B07B934CED3@icloud.com> Jim, > If you are not going to be plugging & unplugging the wire, just go ahead & use a regular plug. The better way to do it is to use a short piece of stranded cord that is attached to the Rolex. The problem with connecting the romex directly to the plug is that the solid wire will break with flexing. If it were me, I?d go ahead & connect the romex to the plug temporarily, then pick up a Piece of stranded & a junction box when convenient. Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity > On Nov 10, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: > ?I'm addinng external carriage lights and have a 50' roll of 14/2 Romex I'd like to use up, not to mention 50' of 14/2 stranded is almost $1/ft. I'd like to have the lights on a timer. I have outlets in the garage, and I happen to have a mechanical timer that you'd use for a livingroom lamp, etc. Can I use a regular add-on plug that you'd normally use with stranded wire and just attach the Romex to it? Are there plugs made for solid wire? I could always use the Romex to extend the circuit to near the carriage lights and install an outlet for the timer and buy short lamp cord, but that means a trip to the store. That might turn out to be the most time/cost/safety efficient method, but if I don't have to get into the car AGAIN... thanks, jim_______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com From strovato at optonline.net Sun Nov 10 13:44:53 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 15:44:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plug for 14/2 solid wire? In-Reply-To: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> References: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <2D.0C.09517.5E678CD5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Jim, If these are regular wall mounted lights, they should be wired directly into a box. You should add a line from power source to a switch and then to the lights. All of this should be done within the walls, ceiling, etc of the building, or in conduit if mounted on the surface. The switch you use can incorporate a timer if desired. There should be no plugs involved, and no lamp cord. Of course you can rig up anything you want and make the lights come on, but it won't be proper or safe like that. Is this intended to be a permanent installation? If it is, do it right. -Steve At 03:00 PM 11/10/2019, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >I'm addinng external carriage lights and have a 50' roll of 14/2 >Romex I'd like to use up, not to mention 50' of 14/2 stranded is almost $1/ft. > >I'd like to have the lights on a timer. I have outlets in the >garage, and I happen to have a mechanical timer that you'd use for a >livingroom lamp, etc. > >Can I use a regular add-on plug that you'd normally use with >stranded wire and just attach the Romex to it? Are there plugs made >for solid wire? > >I could always use the Romex to extend the circuit to near the >carriage lights and install an outlet for the timer and buy short >lamp cord, but that means a trip to the store. That might turn out >to be the most time/cost/safety efficient method, but if I don't >have to get into the car AGAIN... > >thanks, >jim From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sun Nov 10 13:59:02 2019 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 15:59:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plug for 14/2 solid wire? In-Reply-To: <2D.0C.09517.5E678CD5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> <2D.0C.09517.5E678CD5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: I should have prefaced that I know what "right" is, and it's just not gonna happen for various reasons. There will be proper boxes where the fixture wiring connects to the Romex, at least. It's the other end that's the issue. A quick Google doesn't find any direct-wire single-gang switches with built-in timers, which would be neat. Do you know of any? There's an ugly floodlight already switched that I'd like to remove, and if I can repurpose the wiring to that into a junction box with the new light wiring, and replace the switch with a timered switch, that would be quite close to "right". Heck, I might even get excited enough to buy some rigid conduit for the Romex instead of leaving it exposed :-) jim > On Nov 10, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > > Jim, > > If these are regular wall mounted lights, they should be wired directly into a box. You should add a line from power source to a switch and then to the lights. All of this should be done within the walls, ceiling, etc of the building, or in conduit if mounted on the surface. The switch you use can incorporate a timer if desired. There should be no plugs involved, and no lamp cord. Of course you can rig up anything you want and make the lights come on, but it won't be proper or safe like that. Is this intended to be a permanent installation? If it is, do it right. > > -Steve > > At 03:00 PM 11/10/2019, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >> I'm addinng external carriage lights and have a 50' roll of 14/2 Romex I'd like to use up, not to mention 50' of 14/2 stranded is almost $1/ft. >> >> I'd like to have the lights on a timer. I have outlets in the garage, and I happen to have a mechanical timer that you'd use for a livingroom lamp, etc. >> >> Can I use a regular add-on plug that you'd normally use with stranded wire and just attach the Romex to it? Are there plugs made for solid wire? >> >> I could always use the Romex to extend the circuit to near the carriage lights and install an outlet for the timer and buy short lamp cord, but that means a trip to the store. That might turn out to be the most time/cost/safety efficient method, but if I don't have to get into the car AGAIN... >> >> thanks, >> jim > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1386 bytes Desc: not available URL: From strovato at optonline.net Sun Nov 10 14:11:28 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 16:11:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plug for 14/2 solid wire? In-Reply-To: References: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> <2D.0C.09517.5E678CD5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <9D.05.23065.F1D78CD5@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> OK, just don't want you to fry anyone or burn the place down. What sort of timer are you looking for? It seems to me that there are dozens of them. https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wiring-Devices-Light-Controls-Timers/In-Wall/N-5yc1vZc334Z1z17mau -Steve At 03:59 PM 11/10/2019, Jim Franklin wrote: >I should have prefaced that I know what "right" is, and it's just >not gonna happen for various reasons. There will be proper boxes >where the fixture wiring connects to the Romex, at least. It's the >other end that's the issue. > >A quick Google doesn't find any direct-wire single-gang switches >with built-in timers, which would be neat. Do you know of any? >There's an ugly floodlight already switched that I'd like to remove, >and if I can repurpose the wiring to that into a junction box with >the new light wiring, and replace the switch with a timered switch, >that would be quite close to "right". > >Heck, I might even get excited enough to buy some rigid conduit for >the Romex instead of leaving it exposed :-) > >jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sun Nov 10 14:20:54 2019 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 16:20:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plug for 14/2 solid wire? In-Reply-To: <9D.05.23065.F1D78CD5@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> <2D.0C.09517.5E678CD5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <9D.05.23065.F1D78CD5@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: I must have used a poor phrase because those are exactly what I was hoping you meant. Thanks! jim > On Nov 10, 2019, at 4:11 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > > OK, just don't want you to fry anyone or burn the place down. What sort of timer are you looking for? It seems to me that there are dozens of them. > > https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wiring-Devices-Light-Controls-Timers/In-Wall/N-5yc1vZc334Z1z17mau > > -Steve > > At 03:59 PM 11/10/2019, Jim Franklin wrote: >> I should have prefaced that I know what "right" is, and it's just not gonna happen for various reasons. There will be proper boxes where the fixture wiring connects to the Romex, at least. It's the other end that's the issue. >> >> A quick Google doesn't find any direct-wire single-gang switches with built-in timers, which would be neat. Do you know of any? There's an ugly floodlight already switched that I'd like to remove, and if I can repurpose the wiring to that into a junction box with the new light wiring, and replace the switch with a timered switch, that would be quite close to "right". >> >> Heck, I might even get excited enough to buy some rigid conduit for the Romex instead of leaving it exposed :-) >> >> jim -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1386 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bk13 at earthlink.net Sun Nov 10 14:22:08 2019 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 13:22:08 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plug for 14/2 solid wire? In-Reply-To: References: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> <2D.0C.09517.5E678CD5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <751ee028-2b6e-8dc6-6a40-e85ec76d0f10@earthlink.net> Jim - Here are two sample single gang timers. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-15-Amp-In-Wall-3-Way-Daylight-Adjusting-Digital-Timer-Switch-with-Screw-Terminals-White-32648/300524126 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-7-Day-Programmable-Timer-Switch-for-Lights-and-Motors-RPLS730B1000-U/206311889 Also, you might want to check about Romex in conduit.? I don't think you can do that according to code, except for short sections open at both ends.? I think the issue is possible heat buildup and the thermal rating of the wire insulation. Brian On 11/10/2019 12:59 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: > I should have prefaced that I know what "right" is, and it's just not gonna happen for various reasons. There will be proper boxes where the fixture wiring connects to the Romex, at least. It's the other end that's the issue. > > A quick Google doesn't find any direct-wire single-gang switches with built-in timers, which would be neat. Do you know of any? There's an ugly floodlight already switched that I'd like to remove, and if I can repurpose the wiring to that into a junction box with the new light wiring, and replace the switch with a timered switch, that would be quite close to "right". > > Heck, I might even get excited enough to buy some rigid conduit for the Romex instead of leaving it exposed :-) > > jim > >> On Nov 10, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: >> >> Jim, >> >> If these are regular wall mounted lights, they should be wired directly into a box. You should add a line from power source to a switch and then to the lights. All of this should be done within the walls, ceiling, etc of the building, or in conduit if mounted on the surface. The switch you use can incorporate a timer if desired. There should be no plugs involved, and no lamp cord. Of course you can rig up anything you want and make the lights come on, but it won't be proper or safe like that. Is this intended to be a permanent installation? If it is, do it right. >> >> -Steve >> >> At 03:00 PM 11/10/2019, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >>> I'm addinng external carriage lights and have a 50' roll of 14/2 Romex I'd like to use up, not to mention 50' of 14/2 stranded is almost $1/ft. >>> >>> I'd like to have the lights on a timer. I have outlets in the garage, and I happen to have a mechanical timer that you'd use for a livingroom lamp, etc. >>> >>> Can I use a regular add-on plug that you'd normally use with stranded wire and just attach the Romex to it? Are there plugs made for solid wire? >>> >>> I could always use the Romex to extend the circuit to near the carriage lights and install an outlet for the timer and buy short lamp cord, but that means a trip to the store. That might turn out to be the most time/cost/safety efficient method, but if I don't have to get into the car AGAIN... >>> >>> thanks, >>> jim > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sun Nov 10 14:39:08 2019 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 16:39:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plug for 14/2 solid wire? In-Reply-To: <751ee028-2b6e-8dc6-6a40-e85ec76d0f10@earthlink.net> References: <513EE911-A1D6-4030-BCA1-21E6A5E703F8@groupwbench.org> <2D.0C.09517.5E678CD5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <751ee028-2b6e-8dc6-6a40-e85ec76d0f10@earthlink.net> Message-ID: The code is not clear, i.e. it states a few things that can be interpreted as "no Romex in conduit" but doesn't explicitly forbid it. I also think it explicitly permits it when going from a protected area (my garage walls) to an unprotected area (the new junction box flush mounted to the ceiling). Realistically, I'd worry more about heat buildup in an insulated wall that I would metal conduit in a garage in New England. I suppose some future yahoo could repurpose ths wiring to run something beyond spec, but as it'll be hardwired to the 11 watt lights I'm not concerned enough to buy individual wires to run through the conduit I am not sure I'll be buying yet :-) jim > On Nov 10, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Brian Kemp wrote: > > Jim - Here are two sample single gang timers. > > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-15-Amp-In-Wall-3-Way-Daylight-Adjusting-Digital-Timer-Switch-with-Screw-Terminals-White-32648/300524126 > > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-7-Day-Programmable-Timer-Switch-for-Lights-and-Motors-RPLS730B1000-U/206311889 > > Also, you might want to check about Romex in conduit. I don't think you can do that according to code, except for short sections open at both ends. I think the issue is possible heat buildup and the thermal rating of the wire insulation. > > Brian > > On 11/10/2019 12:59 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >> I should have prefaced that I know what "right" is, and it's just not gonna happen for various reasons. There will be proper boxes where the fixture wiring connects to the Romex, at least. It's the other end that's the issue. >> >> A quick Google doesn't find any direct-wire single-gang switches with built-in timers, which would be neat. Do you know of any? There's an ugly floodlight already switched that I'd like to remove, and if I can repurpose the wiring to that into a junction box with the new light wiring, and replace the switch with a timered switch, that would be quite close to "right". >> >> Heck, I might even get excited enough to buy some rigid conduit for the Romex instead of leaving it exposed :-) >> >> jim >> >> >>> On Nov 10, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Steven Trovato >>> wrote: >>> >>> Jim, >>> >>> If these are regular wall mounted lights, they should be wired directly into a box. You should add a line from power source to a switch and then to the lights. All of this should be done within the walls, ceiling, etc of the building, or in conduit if mounted on the surface. The switch you use can incorporate a timer if desired. There should be no plugs involved, and no lamp cord. Of course you can rig up anything you want and make the lights come on, but it won't be proper or safe like that. Is this intended to be a permanent installation? If it is, do it right. >>> >>> -Steve >>> >>> At 03:00 PM 11/10/2019, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >>> >>>> I'm addinng external carriage lights and have a 50' roll of 14/2 Romex I'd like to use up, not to mention 50' of 14/2 stranded is almost $1/ft. >>>> >>>> I'd like to have the lights on a timer. I have outlets in the garage, and I happen to have a mechanical timer that you'd use for a livingroom lamp, etc. >>>> >>>> Can I use a regular add-on plug that you'd normally use with stranded wire and just attach the Romex to it? Are there plugs made for solid wire? >>>> >>>> I could always use the Romex to extend the circuit to near the carriage lights and install an outlet for the timer and buy short lamp cord, but that means a trip to the store. That might turn out to be the most time/cost/safety efficient method, but if I don't have to get into the car AGAIN... >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> jim >>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> >> Donate: >> http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: >> http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1386 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jmitch at snet.net Sun Nov 10 17:18:17 2019 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 19:18:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles References: Message-ID: I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what the best blade is for my miter saw.? Should I get the finest tooth blade I can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? From strovato at optonline.net Sun Nov 10 18:36:32 2019 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 20:36:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74.CA.03419.64BB8CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I found lots of opinions on this, including some people who put the blade on the saw backwards! Yes, on purpose. I don't know about that, but I found this: https://www.garageflooringllc.com/2014/06/23/cut-garage-floor-tile/ There seem to be a lot of different approaches to this. I guess if it was me, I would try it with whatever blade I have. If I wasn't happy with that, I'd try a fine tooth laminate blade. -Steve At 07:18 PM 11/10/2019, John Mitchell via Shop-talk wrote: >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64I'm putting down racedeck type >garage tiles and I'm wondering what the >best blade is for my miter saw. Should I get the finest tooth blade I >can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Sun Nov 10 18:52:14 2019 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 17:52:14 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: old dirtbeard Date: Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles To: John Mitchell Hi John, I just put down 980 sq ft of Racedeck tile in my garage and used the regular multipurpose 10" blade that was on my compound miter saw. Worked fine, but it threw plastic chips everywhere. I eventually took it outdoors and sawed them there, but it still made a big mess. If I had it to do over, I would use a very fine blade or something else to cut them. I was cleaning-up plastic chips for weeks... best, doug On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 4:18 PM John Mitchell via Shop-talk < shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what the > best blade is for my miter saw. Should I get the finest tooth blade I > can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parkanzky at gmail.com Mon Nov 11 08:15:23 2019 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 10:15:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My current favorite flooring for my rentals is Quality Craft's "Expressa" vinyl planking. One of the biggest selling points for me is that it's solid PVC all the way through so it's genuinely completely waterproof (You could store it in your swimming pool for a season and still install it). Another upside to that is that it's super easy to work with. It cuts great on a power miter saw, with a jig saw, a dremel, etc. Finer toothed blades make a slightly nicer cut but are a bit slower (It won't matter much, no matter what you do it cuts like butter). However, your options are a coarser blade and big piles of fluffy chips or a fine-toothed blade and endless PVC dust (I'd wear a mask if you choose the latter). Because of that, I just cut it with a normal wood blade and sweep/shopvac up garbage bags full of chips. I think you're facing the same decision with your RaceDeck. On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 7:18 PM John Mitchell via Shop-talk wrote: > > I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what the > best blade is for my miter saw. Should I get the finest tooth blade I > can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky at gmail.com > From parkanzky at gmail.com Mon Nov 11 08:22:40 2019 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 10:22:40 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Hatchet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you want old-school, there are some small companies out there making traditional axes and hatchets that people swear by. Expect to be gouged though. If you're open to modern, I've been endlessly impressed with all of the Fiskars axes and hatchets I've used over the years. Under $30 on Amazon. I know Estwing makes a hatchet too and I'd be willing to give that a try since they're my go-to for hammers. They're what I'd buy if I planned to occasionally use the back of an axe to drive it through a stubborn round. On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 4:59 PM Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk wrote: > > Well, I've destroyed my ancient Plumb 14 inch hatchet. I probably shouldn't have abused it... > > Anyone bought a quality hatchet lately that they'd recommend? > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky at gmail.com > From fishplate at gmail.com Tue Nov 12 05:13:57 2019 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 07:13:57 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: <74.CA.03419.64BB8CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <74.CA.03419.64BB8CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 8:37 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk < shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > I found lots of opinions on this, including some people who put the blade > on the saw backwards! Yes, on purpose. > I've built a lot of research equipment out of PVC pipe. Table saw with the blade on backwards makes absolutely the smoothest cut ever. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at gmail.com Tue Nov 12 08:48:30 2019 From: dirtbeard at gmail.com (old dirtbeard) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 07:48:30 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: References: <74.CA.03419.64BB8CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Thanks Jeff, Does it reduce the amount of chip/dust mess? On Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 4:14 AM Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk < shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 8:37 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk < > shop-talk at autox.team.net> wrote: > >> I found lots of opinions on this, including some people who put the blade >> on the saw backwards! Yes, on purpose. >> > > I've built a lot of research equipment out of PVC pipe. Table saw with > the blade on backwards makes absolutely the smoothest cut ever. > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at dinospider.com Tue Nov 12 09:09:17 2019 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 08:09:17 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4c6d96cc-012b-d248-f49b-0efc3d60de46@dinospider.com> ?I cut mine on my table saw with my regular wood blade, there was some melting but not much.? Other tiles I cut with my sabre saw. ?I remember reading where someone suggested putting the saw blade on backwards to cut Racedeck, but my saw (Sawstop) wont work with the blade backwards so I never even tried. ?You are going to love the tiles, had mine about 15 years now, just be careful when you weld or use your plasma cutter :) ??? mike On 11/10/2019 4:18 PM, John Mitchell via Shop-talk wrote: > I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what the > best blade is for my miter saw.? Should I get the finest tooth blade I > can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation? $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com > -- A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have it, you'll probably never need one again. From jmitch at snet.net Tue Nov 12 11:17:28 2019 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 13:17:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: <4c6d96cc-012b-d248-f49b-0efc3d60de46@dinospider.com> References: <4c6d96cc-012b-d248-f49b-0efc3d60de46@dinospider.com> Message-ID: <68b880a1-da8d-9497-969e-af67340aaf43@snet.net> I've had some tiles down for 2 years and suddenly they started to curl up around the edges.? I installed them with plenty of gap for expansion.? I sent "Garage Floors" pictures and suddenly I had a delivery of all new tiles.? I assume others may have had similar problems with that batch.? Did you ever stick a hot dog into the saw stop? On 11/12/2019 11:09 AM, Mike Rambour via Shop-talk wrote: > > ?I cut mine on my table saw with my regular wood blade, there was some > melting but not much.? Other tiles I cut with my sabre saw. > > ?I remember reading where someone suggested putting the saw blade on > backwards to cut Racedeck, but my saw (Sawstop) wont work with the > blade backwards so I never even tried. > > ?You are going to love the tiles, had mine about 15 years now, just be > careful when you weld or use your plasma cutter :) > > ??? mike > > On 11/10/2019 4:18 PM, John Mitchell via Shop-talk wrote: >> I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what >> the best blade is for my miter saw.? Should I get the finest tooth >> blade I can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation? $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com >> > From lists at dinospider.com Tue Nov 12 11:34:46 2019 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:34:46 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: <68b880a1-da8d-9497-969e-af67340aaf43@snet.net> References: <4c6d96cc-012b-d248-f49b-0efc3d60de46@dinospider.com> <68b880a1-da8d-9497-969e-af67340aaf43@snet.net> Message-ID: ?No never tried the hot dog trick, I went with my finger.? Well, with my old saw after 35 years of no accidents, I sliced my finger with my table saw, nothing too serious, its still there.? But I did get a little scared and went and got a Sawstop and replaced my Unisaw, my wife figured as I get older, I may get a little more forgetful and besides my Unisaw was a 1.75HP model, so it was time to upgrade to 3HP anyway :) ??? mike On 11/12/2019 10:17 AM, John Mitchell wrote: > I've had some tiles down for 2 years and suddenly they started to curl > up around the edges.? I installed them with plenty of gap for > expansion.? I sent "Garage Floors" pictures and suddenly I had a > delivery of all new tiles.? I assume others may have had similar > problems with that batch.? Did you ever stick a hot dog into the saw > stop? > > On 11/12/2019 11:09 AM, Mike Rambour via Shop-talk wrote: >> >> ?I cut mine on my table saw with my regular wood blade, there was >> some melting but not much.? Other tiles I cut with my sabre saw. >> >> ?I remember reading where someone suggested putting the saw blade on >> backwards to cut Racedeck, but my saw (Sawstop) wont work with the >> blade backwards so I never even tried. >> >> ?You are going to love the tiles, had mine about 15 years now, just >> be careful when you weld or use your plasma cutter :) >> >> ??? mike >> >> On 11/10/2019 4:18 PM, John Mitchell via Shop-talk wrote: >>> I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what >>> the best blade is for my miter saw.? Should I get the finest tooth >>> blade I can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation? $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >>> http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com >>> >> > -- A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have it, you'll probably never need one again. From lists at dinospider.com Tue Nov 12 12:23:00 2019 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:23:00 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: <1c54fcba-55f7-b6cd-f354-f972ff40146f@dinospider.com> References: <61D78BA8-4F8E-4C0B-AFBB-2D8C0AAECEE2@icloud.com> <1c54fcba-55f7-b6cd-f354-f972ff40146f@dinospider.com> Message-ID: <424ea242-b184-48df-39c7-f7d891629060@dinospider.com> On 11/12/2019 11:13 AM, Mike Rambour wrote: > ?$80 for the regular blade brake and $100 for a dado blade brake, PLUS > the cost of a new saw blade.? If you send the brake back to Sawstop > and they confirm it was a flesh hit, then send you a new brake free, > it you hit metal its your cost. > > ?The saw blades are usually (not always, but most) damaged and must be > replaced. No trip to the factory and no trip to emergency, so its > worth it.? Far cheaper than a hospital visit. > > ??? mike > > > On 11/12/2019 10:49 AM, Pat Horne wrote: >> What does it cost for the puck after the hot dog trick? Back in the >> early days I think it was about $175 & required a trip back to the >> factory. >> >> I?ve slightly nicked my finger twice on my powermatic 66. Had a shop >> fire several years ago & it came through fine. Rebuilt it >> mechanically but didn?t have time for a repaint. >> >> Peace, >> Pat >> >> Pat Horne >> We support Habitat for Humanity >> >> >>> On Nov 12, 2019, at 12:35 PM, Mike Rambour via Shop-talk >>> wrote: >>> >> ? >> ? No never tried the hot dog trick, I went with my finger. Well, with >> my old saw after 35 years of no accidents, I sliced my finger with my >> table saw, nothing too serious, its still there.? But I did get a >> little scared and went and got a Sawstop and replaced my Unisaw, my >> wife figured as I get older, I may get a little more forgetful and >> besides my Unisaw was a 1.75HP model, so it was time to upgrade to >> 3HP anyway :) >> >> ???? mike >> >> >>> On 11/12/2019 10:17 AM, John Mitchell wrote: >>> I've had some tiles down for 2 years and suddenly they started to >>> curl up around the edges.? I installed them with plenty of gap for >>> expansion.? I sent "Garage Floors" pictures and suddenly I had a >>> delivery of all new tiles.? I assume others may have had similar >>> problems with that batch.? Did you ever stick a hot dog into the saw >>> stop? >>> >>>> On 11/12/2019 11:09 AM, Mike Rambour via Shop-talk wrote: >>>> >>>> ? I cut mine on my table saw with my regular wood blade, there was >>>> some melting but not much.? Other tiles I cut with my sabre saw. >>>> >>>> ? I remember reading where someone suggested putting the saw blade >>>> on backwards to cut Racedeck, but my saw (Sawstop) wont work with >>>> the blade backwards so I never even tried. >>>> >>>> ? You are going to love the tiles, had mine about 15 years now, >>>> just be careful when you weld or use your plasma cutter :) >>>> >>>> ???? mike >>>> >>>> On 11/10/2019 4:18 PM, John Mitchell via Shop-talk wrote: >>>>> I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what >>>>> the best blade is for my miter saw.? Should I get the finest tooth >>>>> blade I can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> Suggested annual donation? $12.96 >>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >>>>> http://autox.team.net/archive >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com >>>>> > -- A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have it, you'll probably never need one again. From patintexas at icloud.com Tue Nov 12 11:49:38 2019 From: patintexas at icloud.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 12:49:38 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61D78BA8-4F8E-4C0B-AFBB-2D8C0AAECEE2@icloud.com> What does it cost for the puck after the hot dog trick? Back in the early days I think it was about $175 & required a trip back to the factory. I?ve slightly nicked my finger twice on my powermatic 66. Had a shop fire several years ago & it came through fine. Rebuilt it mechanically but didn?t have time for a repaint. Peace, Pat Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity > On Nov 12, 2019, at 12:35 PM, Mike Rambour via Shop-talk wrote: > ? No never tried the hot dog trick, I went with my finger. Well, with my old saw after 35 years of no accidents, I sliced my finger with my table saw, nothing too serious, its still there. But I did get a little scared and went and got a Sawstop and replaced my Unisaw, my wife figured as I get older, I may get a little more forgetful and besides my Unisaw was a 1.75HP model, so it was time to upgrade to 3HP anyway :) mike > On 11/12/2019 10:17 AM, John Mitchell wrote: > I've had some tiles down for 2 years and suddenly they started to curl up around the edges. I installed them with plenty of gap for expansion. I sent "Garage Floors" pictures and suddenly I had a delivery of all new tiles. I assume others may have had similar problems with that batch. Did you ever stick a hot dog into the saw stop? > >> On 11/12/2019 11:09 AM, Mike Rambour via Shop-talk wrote: >> >> I cut mine on my table saw with my regular wood blade, there was some melting but not much. Other tiles I cut with my sabre saw. >> >> I remember reading where someone suggested putting the saw blade on backwards to cut Racedeck, but my saw (Sawstop) wont work with the blade backwards so I never even tried. >> >> You are going to love the tiles, had mine about 15 years now, just be careful when you weld or use your plasma cutter :) >> >> mike >> >> On 11/10/2019 4:18 PM, John Mitchell via Shop-talk wrote: >>> I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what the best blade is for my miter saw. Should I get the finest tooth blade I can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com >>> >> > -- A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have it, you'll probably never need one again. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com From fishplate at gmail.com Sun Nov 17 08:03:53 2019 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:03:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: References: <74.CA.03419.64BB8CD5@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: I got a couple of questions: > Does it reduce the amount of chip/dust mess? > >> As I recall, I ended up with a pile of flakes. No messier than cutting anything else. > Do you think this would work on a sliding miter saw? Does it matter how fine a blade? I used maybe a 40-tooth blade. On a sliding saw, I'd be very wary of something getting out of control - you're holding the material, you're holding the saw...and you're doing something that's definitely non-standard. Probably void ing a warranty, too. :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From berry at kerch.com Sat Nov 16 12:27:25 2019 From: berry at kerch.com (Berry Kercheval) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 11:27:25 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Miter saw blade for plastic tiles In-Reply-To: <61D78BA8-4F8E-4C0B-AFBB-2D8C0AAECEE2@icloud.com> References: <61D78BA8-4F8E-4C0B-AFBB-2D8C0AAECEE2@icloud.com> Message-ID: <744c6bd3-9b28-4bc2-bc97-dd61dbedbd73@Spark> The SawStop brake cartridge is $77 from Amazon, and you can change it yourself. https://www.amazon.com/SawStop-TSBC-10R2-Cartridge-10-Inch-Blades/dp/B001G9MGZQ On Nov 15, 2019, 5:38 PM -0800, Pat Horne via Shop-talk , wrote: > What does it cost for the puck after the hot dog trick? Back in the early days I think it was about $175 & required a trip back to the factory. > > I?ve slightly nicked my finger twice on my powermatic 66. Had a shop fire several years ago & it came through fine. Rebuilt it mechanically but didn?t have time for a repaint. > > Peace, > Pat > > Pat Horne > We support Habitat for Humanity > > > > On Nov 12, 2019, at 12:35 PM, Mike Rambour via Shop-talk wrote: > > > > > No never tried the hot dog trick, I went with my finger. Well, with my old saw after 35 years of no accidents, I sliced my finger with my table saw, nothing too serious, its still there. But I did get a little scared and went and got a Sawstop and replaced my Unisaw, my wife figured as I get older, I may get a little more forgetful and besides my Unisaw was a 1.75HP model, so it was time to upgrade to 3HP anyway :) > > mike > > > > On 11/12/2019 10:17 AM, John Mitchell wrote: > > I've had some tiles down for 2 years and suddenly they started to curl up around the edges. I installed them with plenty of gap for expansion. I sent "Garage Floors" pictures and suddenly I had a delivery of all new tiles. I assume others may have had similar problems with that batch. Did you ever stick a hot dog into the saw stop? > > > > > On 11/12/2019 11:09 AM, Mike Rambour via Shop-talk wrote: > > > > > > I cut mine on my table saw with my regular wood blade, there was some melting but not much. Other tiles I cut with my sabre saw. > > > > > > I remember reading where someone suggested putting the saw blade on backwards to cut Racedeck, but my saw (Sawstop) wont work with the blade backwards so I never even tried. > > > > > > You are going to love the tiles, had mine about 15 years now, just be careful when you weld or use your plasma cutter :) > > > > > > mike > > > > > > On 11/10/2019 4:18 PM, John Mitchell via Shop-talk wrote: > > > > I'm putting down racedeck type garage tiles and I'm wondering what the best blade is for my miter saw. Should I get the finest tooth blade I can find or will a 60 tooth 12" blade suffice? > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > A gun is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have it, > you'll probably never need one again. > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas at icloud.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/berry at kerch.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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