From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Sat Jun  1 07:24:50 2013
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 09:24:50 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board
In-Reply-To: <1370058315.92733.YahooMailRC@web184902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1370058315.92733.YahooMailRC@web184902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <38A3D5066E5D411AB91E2AE52E497FDF@EricJRussellPC>

I believe the expectation is the insulation will be covered with a 
fire-proof material ("drywall"). I doubt there is an effective paint you 
could apply.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

----- Original Message ----- 
Subject: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board


>I need to insulate the ceiling in my barn, 18'x30',  and am thinking of 
>using 2"
> rigid insulation board or otherwise called polystyrene. One side has a
> reflective foil on it and the other has  some kind of a plastic wrap on it 
> and
> it is this side that I would like to paint white to cover up the blue 
> printing.
> Is this feasible and does any one recommend a particular paint.

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Sat Jun  1 08:53:30 2013
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 10:53:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board
In-Reply-To: <1370058315.92733.YahooMailRC@web184902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1370058315.92733.YahooMailRC@web184902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.02.1306011050060.16653@itonami.pair.com>

On Fri, 31 May 2013, Frank Vantacich wrote:
> I need to insulate the ceiling in my barn, 18'x30',  and am thinking of using 2"
> rigid insulation board or otherwise called polystyrene. One side has a
> reflective foil on it and the other has  some kind of a plastic wrap on it and
> it is this side that I would like to paint white to cover up the blue printing.
> Is this feasible and does any one recommend a particular paint.

    Why not just put the reflective side facing down, and leave it be? 
That's what my father-in-law and I did ( two garages ).  Looks fine for a 
garage ceiling, and even helps with lighting a little.  Throw some 
aluminum tape on the seams and call it done.

    Painting it sounds like a right bitch, to be honest.

--
  David Hillman

From phoenix722 at comcast.net  Sat Jun  1 15:55:33 2013
From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 14:55:33 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] dead battery
Message-ID: <57D5AD9E28E74E71B61A036565BB57C8@Mike>

Thanks to all who offered suggestions on my troubles with a very old battery.
Tried everything, and final result was that it was deceased, as in doornail.
Had to break down and buy a new one.  It's only money!

Mike

From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jun  1 16:47:32 2013
From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich)
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 15:47:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.02.1306011050060.16653@itonami.pair.com>
References: <1370058315.92733.YahooMailRC@web184902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.02.1306011050060.16653@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <1370126852.92075.YahooMailRC@web184903.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

David you might be on to something, that sure would lessen the amount of prep 
work I would have to do. Eric you're are right about it being flammable and 
should be covered up with something non-flammable, i didn't think about that. 
Doug that would sure take a lot of spray cans but that was excellent suggestion 
I did not know about that product.

Great ideas thanks for the help!!!

 
Frank V.
Loomis, Ca
rustymetal at sbcglobal.net




________________________________
From: David Hillman <hillman at planet-torque.com>
To: Frank Vantacich <rustymetal at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: Shop Talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sat, June 1, 2013 7:53:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board

On Fri, 31 May 2013, Frank Vantacich wrote:
> I need to insulate the ceiling in my barn, 18'x30',  and am thinking of using 
>2"
> rigid insulation board or otherwise called polystyrene. One side has a
> reflective foil on it and the other has  some kind of a plastic wrap on it and
> it is this side that I would like to paint white to cover up the blue 
printing.
> Is this feasible and does any one recommend a particular paint.

   Why not just put the reflective side facing down, and leave it be? That's 
what my father-in-law and I did ( two garages ).  Looks fine for a garage 
ceiling, and even helps with lighting a little.  Throw some aluminum tape on the 
seams and call it done.

   Painting it sounds like a right bitch, to be honest.

--
David Hillman

From arvidj at visi.com  Sun Jun  2 08:33:24 2013
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 09:33:24 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board
Message-ID: <175FD9E30ADF4879A9374E90557BFDB8@HP62011>

I think which way the foil is facing depends on what you are trying to do
... keep heat in or keep heat out. Based on the information here ...

http://www.rimainternational.org/index.php/myths/

... for the foil will need an air gap to be effective. The foil is glued to
foam so the air gap requirement will not be met on that side of the
material.

If you install the material with the foil facing inside it will perform best
reflecting energy ... light and heat ... back into the room, plus the effect
of the foam insulation.
Keeping heat out in the summer will only be affected by effect of the
foam insulation based on the lack of the air gap on that side of the foil.

If you install the material with the foam facing the roof ... and we assume
it is installed with the required air gap between the material and the roof
sheeting otherwise it will not be effective ... heat will be reflected back
to
the roof sheeting along with the effect of the foam insulation, but heat from
room will only be affected by the the foam insulation.

At least that is the way I understand the information.

>David you might be on to something, that sure would lessen the amount of
>prep work I would have to do.

>>Why not just put the reflective side facing down, and leave it be? That's
>>what my father-in-law and I did ( two garages ).  Looks fine for a garage
>>ceiling, and even helps with lighting a little.  Throw some aluminum tape
>>on the seams and call it done.

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Sun Jun  2 12:03:22 2013
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 14:03:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board
In-Reply-To: <175FD9E30ADF4879A9374E90557BFDB8@HP62011>
References: <175FD9E30ADF4879A9374E90557BFDB8@HP62011>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.02.1306021358240.43002@itonami.pair.com>

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, Arvid Jedlicka wrote:
> I think which way the foil is facing depends on what you are trying to do
> ... keep heat in or keep heat out. Based on the information here ...
>
> http://www.rimainternational.org/index.php/myths/

    In theory, that's probably true.  In my non-scientific experience with 
two garages, they are both substantially cooler in summer and warmer in 
winter than they were with uninsulated ceilings.  Neither have any A/C, 
and the one with heat noticed a drop in heating costs.

    For a about a year after I did mine, I kicked myself everyday for not 
doing it the week I bought the house.  YMMV.

--
  David Hillman

From tputland at charter.net  Sun Jun  2 14:50:48 2013
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 16:50:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] throttle cable end/terminal (?)
Message-ID: <436fad3c.8426de.13f06a81fc2.Webtop.47@charter.net>

Not sure what to call it but I would like to use a different
end/terminal that what was included with this carb linkage kit:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82293958 at N06/8928731354/

Looking for suggestions to replace the little bits you can see on the
left that has the cable stuck in it for the picture. (I do have a new
cable that is not frayed.) I donbt like how these little bits are
supposed to hold the cable. Also, it is all held on the rod by the
smallest and thinnest wire cotter pin I have ever seen. The rod on the
right is just the bare rod that will receive the replacement part that
holds the cable shown as a reference.

Whatta think?
Thanks
tim

From pat at hornesystemstx.com  Sun Jun  2 15:09:07 2013
From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2013 16:09:07 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] throttle cable end/terminal (?)
In-Reply-To: <436fad3c.8426de.13f06a81fc2.Webtop.47@charter.net>
References: <436fad3c.8426de.13f06a81fc2.Webtop.47@charter.net>
Message-ID: <51ABB473.1060800@hornesystemstx.com>

Tim,

I agree, the cotter key doesn't look too robust! Are you sure the stack 
of washers opposite the cotter key are correctly placed? Usually a 
cotter key is against a washer so it doesn't wear through.

Can you move the location of the cable closer to the arm? I would try 
either threading the pin that is held with the cotter key and use a nut 
on each side of the arm to lock it in place with enough play to allow it 
to rotate as needed. A bit of Locktite or drilling holes in the nuts and 
pin to allow safety wire to be run through them should do the trick, or 
use collars with set screws on each side of the arm.

Another thing to try is to find a shouldered shaft where you can use the 
shoulder on the side where the cotter key is, with some jamb nuts on the 
other side of the arm, then the nuts and washers that hold the cable.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Tim

> Not sure what to call it but I would like to use a different
> end/terminal that what was included with this carb linkage kit:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/82293958 at N06/8928731354/
>
> Looking for suggestions to replace the little bits you can see on the
> left that has the cable stuck in it for the picture. (I do have a new
> cable that is not frayed.) I donbt like how these little bits are
> supposed to hold the cable. Also, it is all held on the rod by the
> smallest and thinnest wire cotter pin I have ever seen. The rod on the
> right is just the bare rod that will receive the replacement part that
> holds the cable shown as a reference.
>
> Whatta think?
> Thanks
> tim
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
>
>

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems
(512) 797-7501 Voice & Text	5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From KVacek at Ameritech.net  Sun Jun  2 16:19:53 2013
From: KVacek at Ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 17:19:53 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] throttle cable end/terminal (?)
In-Reply-To: <436fad3c.8426de.13f06a81fc2.Webtop.47@charter.net>
References: <436fad3c.8426de.13f06a81fc2.Webtop.47@charter.net>
Message-ID: <002a01ce5fdf$4e9fbc00$ebdf3400$@Ameritech.net>

Is the cable passing through a hole in the threaded portion of the stud,
between the two nuts?

If so, then it looks properly assembled though the nuts need to be tightened
to clamp the cable onto the stud.  As Pat noted, there would be a washer
between the cotter pin and the arm, and as you noted, a larger cotter pin is
in order.

Should work fine then.

Alternatively, you could use a bug nut.  Here's one style that comes in
several sizes:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/cablendbnut.php?clickkey=9629

Karl


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim
Subject: [Shop-talk] throttle cable end/terminal (?)
Not sure what to call it but I would like to use a different end/terminal
that what was included with this carb linkage kit:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/82293958 at N06/8928731354/

From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jun  2 16:27:29 2013
From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 15:27:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw:  rigid insulation board
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.02.1306021358240.43002@itonami.pair.com>
References: <175FD9E30ADF4879A9374E90557BFDB8@HP62011>
	<alpine.BSF.2.02.1306021358240.43002@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <1370212049.17374.YahooMailRC@web184905.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Good information from everyone. Thank you!! The structure I will be using the 
rigid insulation in is a raised center aisle barn which is all built of wood , 
the raised center part is 20 feet from the ground and has a 4 in 12 pitch roof 
over it and is 18' x 30'. I was going to screw the rigid insul. boards to the 
rafters then there would be a gap of about 4ft at the ridge down to 6 inches 
between the roof and the rigid insul boards.

I don't have any lights in this area but will have two 5' ceiling fans. There 
are three 2'x4' windows  on either side that are about 2 ft from the ceiling so 
the rigid insul boards will hopefully reflect some light in to the floor space. 
right now I'm sure I loose a lot of heat from my wood stove into this space so 
it will serve two functions one to keep the  heat in in the winter and two keep 
the heat out in the summer that comes from the asphalt shingled roof. 


I was originally planning to  insulate with rolled insulation and then screw 16' 
lengths of corrugated metal on to the rafters, this is what i did on the two 
lower ceilings which go from 9' up the 14' but for some reason i can't get 
motivated to do the same thing in the center part which is 20' up in the air. 


And know you know the rest of the story.

 
Frank V.
Loomis, Ca
rustymetal at sbcglobal.net




________________________________
From: David Hillman <hillman at planet-torque.com>
To: Arvid Jedlicka <arvidj at visi.com>
Cc: Shop Talk List <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, June 2, 2013 11:08:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, Arvid Jedlicka wrote:
> I think which way the foil is facing depends on what you are trying to do
> ... keep heat in or keep heat out. Based on the information here ...
> 
> http://www.rimainternational.org/index.php/myths/

   In theory, that's probably true.   In my non-scientific experience with two 
garages, they are both substantially cooler in summer and warmer in winter than 
they were with uninsulated ceilings.  Neither have any A/C, and the one with 
heat noticed a drop in heating costs.

   For a about a year after I did mine, I kicked myself everyday for not doing 
it the week I bought the house.  YMMV.

--
David Hillman
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rustymetal at sbcglobal.net

From tputland at charter.net  Mon Jun  3 05:40:02 2013
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 07:40:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] throttle cable end/terminal (?)
Message-ID: <4278615c.85e3dd.13f09d63d2c.Webtop.46@charter.net>

Thanks all. I will see what I can figure out.


On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Pat Horne wrote:

> Tim,
>
> I agree, the cotter key doesn't look too robust! Are you sure the 
> stack of washers opposite the cotter key are correctly placed? Usually 
> a cotter key is against a washer so it doesn't wear through.
>
> Can you move the location of the cable closer to the arm? I would try 
> either threading the pin that is held with the cotter key and use a 
> nut on each side of the arm to lock it in place with enough play to 
> allow it to rotate as needed. A bit of Locktite or drilling holes in 
> the nuts and pin to allow safety wire to be run through them should do 
> the trick, or use collars with set screws on each side of the arm.
>
> Another thing to try is to find a shouldered shaft where you can use 
> the shoulder on the side where the cotter key is, with some jamb nuts 
> on the other side of the arm, then the nuts and washers that hold the 
> cable.
>
> Peace,
> Pat
>
> Thusly spake Tim
>
>> Not sure what to call it but I would like to use a different
>> end/terminal that what was included with this carb linkage kit:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/82293958 at N06/8928731354/
>>
>> Looking for suggestions to replace the little bits you can see on the
>> left that has the cable stuck in it for the picture. (I do have a new
>> cable that is not frayed.) I donbt like how these little bits are
>> supposed to hold the cable. Also, it is all held on the rod by the
>> smallest and thinnest wire cotter pin I have ever seen. The rod on 
>> the
>> right is just the bare rod that will receive the replacement part 
>> that
>> holds the cable shown as a reference.
>>
>> Whatta think?
>> Thanks
>> tim
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems
> (512) 797-7501 Voice & Text	5026 FM 2001
> Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
> www.hornesystemstx.com
> -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net

From arvidj at visi.com  Mon Jun  3 08:02:50 2013
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 09:02:50 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.02.1306021358240.43002@itonami.pair.com>
References: <175FD9E30ADF4879A9374E90557BFDB8@HP62011>
	<alpine.BSF.2.02.1306021358240.43002@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <821DA0849BD64EB187687C9FFDEDC07D@HP62011>

The information was specifically related to maximizing the effectiveness
of the radiant barrier, not the pro's and con's of insulation in general.

My non-scientific experience agrees with yours. The garage is
considerably cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter after I
installed foam installation ... but it was simply pink foam board without
any reflective barrier.

Our observations suggest that significant benefits can be had by putting
up any insulation, and the information provided in the link provides the
manufacturers recommendations related to the radiant barrier component
if that is part of the material being installed. 

-----Original Message----- 
From: David Hillman 
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 1:03 PM 
To: Arvid Jedlicka 
Cc: Shop Talk List 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] rigid insulation board 

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, Arvid Jedlicka wrote:
> I think which way the foil is facing depends on what you are trying to do
> ... keep heat in or keep heat out. Based on the information here ...
>
> http://www.rimainternational.org/index.php/myths/

    In theory, that's probably true.  In my non-scientific experience with 
two garages, they are both substantially cooler in summer and warmer in 
winter than they were with uninsulated ceilings.  Neither have any A/C, 
and the one with heat noticed a drop in heating costs.

    For a about a year after I did mine, I kicked myself everyday for not 
doing it the week I bought the house.  YMMV.

--
  David Hillman

From rbender9 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  3 09:53:24 2013
From: rbender9 at sbcglobal.net (Robert Bender)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 08:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sheet metal question
In-Reply-To: <821DA0849BD64EB187687C9FFDEDC07D@HP62011>
Message-ID: <1370274804.72755.YahooMailClassic@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I have a ridiculously old bead blast cabinet that works fantastically well. 
The gloves clamp to a 5-1/2 inch diameter flange, and are now wearing out. 
None of the blast supply places seem to have this size of glove.  They will
all sell gloves that fit a 7-1/4 inch flange.  Some even sell the retrofit
flange.  So, I am thinking about how to cut two clean, accurate circles, 7-1/2
inches in diameter in a box made of 14 gage sheet metal.  I don't have access
to a plasma cutter here at home, my nibbler isn't capable of handling the
thickness, it can't be disassembled to fit into the mill and my Greenlee
knockouts don't go anywhere near that big.  I suppose I could buy a 7-1/2 inch
hole saw, but Google shows $112 and up for something that will likely get used
once. I'll probably end up borrowing Dad's tanks and cutting torch, but that's
a hassle to transport and will require a fair amount of clean up of the cut
edge.  Any neat out-of-the-box ideas
 while I talk one of my buddies into buying a plasma cutter that I can
borrow?
Bob

From drew at DasRogges.com  Mon Jun  3 10:04:02 2013
From: drew at DasRogges.com (Drew Rogge)
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 09:04:02 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sheet metal question
In-Reply-To: <1370274804.72755.YahooMailClassic@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1370274804.72755.YahooMailClassic@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <51ACBE72.6060806@DasRogges.com>

I assume the box is steel? You might be able to make a plywood template with
a 7-1/2 dia hole in it and use a router with a flushtriming bit to auger out
the hole. I'm sure it would ruin the bit and be quite noisy but if it's a one
time deal?

Drew

On 06/03/2013 08:53 AM, Robert Bender wrote:
> I have a ridiculously old bead blast cabinet that works fantastically well.
> The gloves clamp to a 5-1/2 inch diameter flange, and are now wearing out.
> None of the blast supply places seem to have this size of glove.  They will
> all sell gloves that fit a 7-1/4 inch flange.  Some even sell the retrofit
> flange.  So, I am thinking about how to cut two clean, accurate circles, 7-1/2
> inches in diameter in a box made of 14 gage sheet metal.  I don't have access
> to a plasma cutter here at home, my nibbler isn't capable of handling the
> thickness, it can't be disassembled to fit into the mill and my Greenlee
> knockouts don't go anywhere near that big.  I suppose I could buy a 7-1/2 inch
> hole saw, but Google shows $112 and up for something that will likely get used
> once. I'll probably end up borrowing Dad's tanks and cutting torch, but that's
> a hassle to transport and will require a fair amount of clean up of the cut
> edge.  Any neat out-of-the-box ideas
>   while I talk one of my buddies into buying a plasma cutter that I can
> borrow?
> Bob

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Mon Jun  3 10:08:45 2013
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 12:08:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sheet metal question
In-Reply-To: <1370274804.72755.YahooMailClassic@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1370274804.72755.YahooMailClassic@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E17FA12CDF2142E8826AC08409A247AC@EricJRussellPC>

A metal cutting blade in a jig saw plus a steady hand should do the job. 
Cutting oil will make the blade last longer but you'll still probably want 
at least two blades (so get four...). I used my jig saw with a metal cutting 
blade to cut many parts out of 14ga steel to repair my MGA chassis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWpHzf1I0BI

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

----- Original Message ----- 

> Any neat out-of-the-box ideas while I talk one of my buddies into buying a 
> plasma cutter that I can
> borrow?

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Mon Jun  3 10:11:03 2013
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 11:11:03 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sheet metal question
In-Reply-To: <1370274804.72755.YahooMailClassic@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <821DA0849BD64EB187687C9FFDEDC07D@HP62011>
	<1370274804.72755.YahooMailClassic@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+7Nz3rGQcUKuE1tL+QOq3Jg252L-e--W6Y5TYaf8WY0FcS0uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Saber saws can do that chore.  A variable speed unit will allow one to
select an optimal speed to suit the blade and metal.  Use good quality
metal cutting blades but don't be afraid to try some of the coarser blades
for wood;  I once broke my last metal cutting blade and finished a job with
a wood-type blade that cut much better but vibrated and danced around     a
lot . .  Good Luck.
Tony


On 3 June 2013 10:53, Robert Bender <rbender9 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I have a ridiculously old bead blast cabinet that works fantastically well.
> The gloves clamp to a 5-1/2 inch diameter flange, and are now wearing out.
> None of the blast supply places seem to have this size of glove.  They will
> all sell gloves that fit a 7-1/4 inch flange.  Some even sell the retrofit
> flange.  So, I am thinking about how to cut two clean, accurate circles,
> 7-1/2
> inches in diameter in a box made of 14 gage sheet metal.  I don't have
> access
> to a plasma cutter here at home, my nibbler isn't capable of handling the
> thickness, it can't be disassembled to fit into the mill and my Greenlee
> knockouts don't go anywhere near that big.  I suppose I could buy a 7-1/2
> inch
> hole saw, but Google shows $112 and up for something that will likely get
> used
> once. I'll probably end up borrowing Dad's tanks and cutting torch, but
> that's
> a hassle to transport and will require a fair amount of clean up of the cut
> edge.  Any neat out-of-the-box ideas
>  while I talk one of my buddies into buying a plasma cutter that I can
> borrow?
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eltonclark at gmail.com

From doug at dougbraun.com  Mon Jun  3 13:46:32 2013
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 15:46:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sheet metal question
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9WvGXjLi0i3CuXdosJOJnVKO7acKQc3NGvc33e50wNL6w@mail.gmail.com>

I have a Bosch saber saw, and their blades are nice.  They make fine
toothed metal blades that work fine for fairly thick sheet metal.  But you
will probably wear them out quick: they have only about an inch worth of
teeth on them...




> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Elton E. (Tony) Clark <
> eltonclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Saber saws can do that chore.  A variable speed unit will allow one to
>> select an optimal speed to suit the blade and metal.  Use good quality
>> metal cutting blades but don't be afraid to try some of the coarser blades
>> for wood;  I once broke my last metal cutting blade and finished a job
>> with
>> a wood-type blade that cut much better but vibrated and danced around
>> a
>> lot . .  Good Luck.
>> Tony

From rbender9 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jun  3 17:48:51 2013
From: rbender9 at sbcglobal.net (Robert Bender)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 16:48:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sheet metal question
In-Reply-To: <E17FA12CDF2142E8826AC08409A247AC@EricJRussellPC>
Message-ID: <1370303331.60714.YahooMailClassic@web181506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Honestly the jig saw with metal cutting blade
never occurred to me (mental block?), I kept thinking of either using a burr
on the die grinder or a cutting torch.  But that's why I read the suggestions
on this list.
Thanks everyone,
Bob

--- On Mon, 6/3/13, Eric J Russell <ejrussell at mebtel.net> wrote:

From: Eric J Russell <ejrussell at mebtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Sheet metal question
To: "Robert Bender" <rbender9 at sbcglobal.net>, "Shop Talk List"
<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Date: Monday, June 3, 2013, 11:08 AM

A metal cutting blade in a jig saw plus a steady hand should do the job.
Cutting oil will make the blade last longer but you'll still probably want at
least two blades (so get four...). I used my jig saw with a metal cutting
blade to cut many parts out of 14ga steel to repair my MGA chassis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWpHzf1I0BI

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

----- Original Message -----
> Any neat out-of-the-box ideas while I talk one of my buddies into buying a
plasma cutter that I can
> borrow?

From racertod at racertodd.com  Mon Jun  3 19:09:57 2013
From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke)
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 18:09:57 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sheet metal question
In-Reply-To: <1370274804.72755.YahooMailClassic@web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo .com>
References: <821DA0849BD64EB187687C9FFDEDC07D@HP62011>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20130603180440.02139280@mail.avvanta.com>

         My first thought was a cutoff wheel in a die grinder, assuming you 
have an air compressor.
         Mark the cut line with a Sharpie.  Go slow and steady using both 
hands to hold the die grinder and you can cut a fairly clean circle of that 
size.
         Cut towards the inside of the line then use a sanding drum or 
carbide burr to finish the shape and clean up the edge.


Todd
Seattle,WA
'86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 276,000 miles
'01 Golf TDI, silver.   (new work car)       408,000 miles
'87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car)   654,000 miles <- Gone to a new 
home :(
http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Wed Jun  5 07:25:19 2013
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 09:25:19 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] World's Oldest Surform Plane?
Message-ID: <451DBD9376C64069907BA0834A028E28@EricJRussellPC>

Apparently from the late 1800s:
 
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/tls/3849546736.html
 
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell

From jibjib at att.net  Wed Jun  5 22:13:14 2013
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 21:13:14 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman Garage door opener Failure
Message-ID: <D3C3D2CF8D40420B9C3F8468D65A3DC9@EntCentPC>

Heads up on surprising repair.

 

My garage door stopped working a day or so ago.  I checked everything out
that would normally lead to a failure and found nothing.  Eventually I
pulled the printed circuit board.  I found an overheated section on the
circuit board, right next to one leg of a relay.  The track was blown.  I
figured the relay was shot, so I unsoldered it, then pulled the cover off
the relay to take a look.  The relay looked fine, so I cleaned up that
terminal leg, which was corroded and soldered the relay back on the board.
I added a jumper to a good part of the circuit board track and it's working
again.  I suspect one of the original solder joints was marginal and it took
15 years to finally overheat and burn through.

 

Craftsman is made by Chamberlain.  They also make Lift-master, so this same
issue could affect any of these brands or another brand.  It was just so
weird I had to write it up.  

 

The really odd thing this week was about relays.  Relays are pretty solid
and rarely fail, at least in my world.  A few days before the garage door
opener issue one of the girls at work was having an issue with her car's
A/C.  That was a blown compressor clutch relay.  Watch your relays folks.
They are failing fast now.  Must be sunspots or something.

 

Jack

From cavanadd at frontier.com  Wed Jun  5 23:25:33 2013
From: cavanadd at frontier.com (Dave C)
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2013 22:25:33 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] World's Oldest Surform Plane?
In-Reply-To: <451DBD9376C64069907BA0834A028E28@EricJRussellPC>
References: <451DBD9376C64069907BA0834A028E28@EricJRussellPC>
Message-ID: <51B01D4D.7060606@frontier.com>

That will be worth a fortune, considering they were patented in 1949, if 
Wikipedia can be believed....


On 6/5/2013 6:25 AM, Eric J Russell wrote:
> Apparently from the late 1800s:
>
> http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/tls/3849546736.html
>
> Eric Russell
> Mebane, NC
> http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Thu Jun  6 00:06:26 2013
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 02:06:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman Garage door opener Failure
In-Reply-To: <D3C3D2CF8D40420B9C3F8468D65A3DC9@EntCentPC>
References: <D3C3D2CF8D40420B9C3F8468D65A3DC9@EntCentPC>
Message-ID: <51B026E2.9040704@xxiii.com>

On 6/6/2013 12:13 AM, Jack Brooks wrote:
> Craftsman is made by Chamberlain.  They also make Lift-master, so this same
> issue could affect any of these brands or another brand.  It was just so

I have a Lift-Master with a 1999 build code in my place. It failed maybe 
6 years ago, and after not being able to see anything defective on the 
printed circuit, I grabbed the soldering gear and "re-flowed" or fully 
re-soldered the whole board. Voila! It worked. Chamberlain broke a real 
basic engineering rule: Do NOT use solder to mechanically secure 
components to PCBs. I also glued all the offending big pieces down with 
- forget exactly - sillycone or hot glue or similar. Better engineering 
would have done that in the first place, or potted it, or put a ty-wrap 
in, or some bracket.

-w

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Thu Jun  6 06:29:00 2013
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 07:29:00 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman Garage door opener Failure
In-Reply-To: <51B026E2.9040704@xxiii.com>
References: <D3C3D2CF8D40420B9C3F8468D65A3DC9@EntCentPC>
	<51B026E2.9040704@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YAvzvqkpsRwj3qNupnnKF3+kxfC5QpR82irGez2TuDnBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Actually I'm going to disagree with you on that basic engineering rule.
Mechanical security is exactly what solder is for.  It is a lousy
conductor.  It is true that large and heavy components should have
additional mechanical support, especially when used in an application
 that is subject to vibration or shock.  But for small through-hole and
surface mount components, solder is more than adequate.


On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 1:06 AM, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:

> On 6/6/2013 12:13 AM, Jack Brooks wrote:
>
>> Craftsman is made by Chamberlain.  They also make Lift-master, so this
>> same
>> issue could affect any of these brands or another brand.  It was just so
>>
>
> I have a Lift-Master with a 1999 build code in my place. It failed maybe 6
> years ago, and after not being able to see anything defective on the
> printed circuit, I grabbed the soldering gear and "re-flowed" or fully
> re-soldered the whole board. Voila! It worked. Chamberlain broke a real
> basic engineering rule: Do NOT use solder to mechanically secure components
> to PCBs. I also glued all the offending big pieces down with - forget
> exactly - sillycone or hot glue or similar. Better engineering would have
> done that in the first place, or potted it, or put a ty-wrap in, or some
> bracket.
>
> -w
>
> ______________________________**_________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/**
> options/shop-talk/jdinnis@**gmail.com<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com>
>
>


-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Thu Jun  6 07:46:06 2013
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele)
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 09:46:06 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman Garage door opener Failure; RELAYS
Message-ID: <011701ce62bc$323d1280$96b73780$@usermail.com>

I had a 24 year old Bosch relay fail on my BMW last week; put in a brand new
one out of my parts drawer; it failed in about 8 miles.  I spent 2 hrs
trouble shooting before "starting again", only to find that the new relay
failed.  Currently, a used one from my parts car is doing nicely...


<<  Watch your relays folks.
They are failing fast now.  Must be sunspots or something.>>

From pat at hornesystemstx.com  Thu Jun  6 07:57:22 2013
From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 08:57:22 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman Garage door opener Failure; RELAYS
In-Reply-To: <011701ce62bc$323d1280$96b73780$@usermail.com>
References: <011701ce62bc$323d1280$96b73780$@usermail.com>
Message-ID: <51B09542.9050501@hornesystemstx.com>

I ever use the new cube relays on the market except for Bosch and Cibie. 
These are probably made in the same plant in China as the ones that 
fail, but I bet they get better inspections than the cheap ones.

Some times "NEW AND IMPROVED" isn't

Peace,
Pat

  Thusly spake Paul Mele

> I had a 24 year old Bosch relay fail on my BMW last week; put in a brand new
> one out of my parts drawer; it failed in about 8 miles.  I spent 2 hrs
> trouble shooting before "starting again", only to find that the new relay
> failed.  Currently, a used one from my parts car is doing nicely...
>
>
> <<  Watch your relays folks.
> They are failing fast now.  Must be sunspots or something.>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
>
>

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems
(512) 797-7501 Voice & Text	5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From rbeels at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 10 14:11:56 2013
From: rbeels at yahoo.com (Richard Beels)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:11:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] I feel . . . wrong
In-Reply-To: <517F6F6E.5050007@landform.co.uk>
References: <FF9F7DE36E8D431BA1A9DAE38B374B8F@SusieandMarkPC>
	<517F6F6E.5050007@landform.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20130610161019.0710c308@yahoo.com>

Reading this WAY late but this is the quote of the year.

Not going to be replacing the dozen or so 2 strokes around here, but 
still....  genius.



At 04/30/2013 at 03:14, Shakespearean monkeys danced on nick 
brearley's keyboard and said:

>... life is too short to spend time wrestling with that cubic inch 
>of frustration that is the Walbro carburettor...



Cheers!

From fishplate at gmail.com  Mon Jun 10 14:40:20 2013
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 16:40:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] I feel . . . wrong
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130610161019.0710c308@yahoo.com>
References: <FF9F7DE36E8D431BA1A9DAE38B374B8F@SusieandMarkPC>
	<517F6F6E.5050007@landform.co.uk>
	<6.2.5.6.2.20130610161019.0710c308@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CMCn=ciHv+EGVWXOtV5Tg0Ms8TjReeqs=5jJt504fUhHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Richard Beels <rbeels at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> ... life is too short to spend time wrestling with that cubic inch of
>> frustration that is the Walbro carburettor...

I learned that earlier this year...Tried to do a simple cleaning, but
only managed to make things worse.  Then I found out a brand new
plug-n-play carb was $27 delivered to my door.

I have a new outlook on life now...

I suppose if you had the Walbro tools and a fifth of patience, you
could manage to fix it.  But my Scotch costs more than $27, so that's
that.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

From tputland at charter.net  Tue Jun 11 12:30:52 2013
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:30:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] throttle cable end/terminal (?)
Message-ID: <76b4780a.8dfdfb.13f34813e22.Webtop.43@charter.net>

Thanks to the few of you who responded. Since you all pretty much 
thought that attachment that came in the kit looked ok, I went ahead and 
used it. It provides great movement that is very smooth. Once I get a 
bigger cotter pin I should be dialed.

Thanks again!
tim


On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Tim wrote:

> Not sure what to call it but I would like to use a different
> end/terminal that what was included with this carb linkage kit:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/82293958 at N06/8928731354/
>
> Looking for suggestions to replace the little bits you can see on the
> left that has the cable stuck in it for the picture. (I do have a new
> cable that is not frayed.) I donbt like how these little bits are
> supposed to hold the cable. Also, it is all held on the rod by the
> smallest and thinnest wire cotter pin I have ever seen. The rod on the
> right is just the bare rod that will receive the replacement part that
> holds the cable shown as a reference.
>
> Whatta think?
> Thanks
> tim

From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Mon Jun 17 20:03:32 2013
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:03:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removed wainscoting, now outlet box sticks out
Message-ID: <DBBB235B-DF20-4B52-9C91-C817E8CAD7B0@groupwbench.org>

My Google-fu is weak tonight. I removed some wainscoting and now the outlet
boxes stick out about 1/2". I'm looking for some spacers to add around the box
so the wall plate will sit flush and it will look ok. Have you heard of such a
thing? One site recommended the Wire-mould spacers but they didn't look big
enough in LxW dimensions.

thanks,

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 17 21:08:29 2013
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:08:29 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removed wainscoting, now outlet box sticks out
In-Reply-To: <DBBB235B-DF20-4B52-9C91-C817E8CAD7B0@groupwbench.org>
References: <DBBB235B-DF20-4B52-9C91-C817E8CAD7B0@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <51BFCF2D.2030706@earthlink.net>

Jim - A Wiremold starter box should work.  See the picture at
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wiremold-Legrand-Non-Metallic-Extra-Deep-White-Outlet-Box-NMW35/100657459

(This is just a sample with a pretty picture showing the back plate.  
I'd get the thinnest one that fits.)  These boxes are designed to be a 
starting point for a surface mount channel.

Since your box is sticking out, I would just get some long screws for 
the outlet and skip the back plate.  You may need to drill out the 
outlet screw holes so the long screws pull the extension against the wall.

The other option is to replace the outlet box.  If it is plastic and 
attached to the studs, just break it apart and put in an old work box like
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-Non-Metallic-Old-Work-Box-B114RB/100404027

If it is metal, you can try and either break it apart or just undo the 
wires and push the box in the wall then go with the old work box.

You could also make a spacer with a 1x4 and beveled or cove edges. 
Anything exposed to the inside of the box needs to be non-combustible, 
so use a box extender like
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Electrical-Box-Extender-BE1-2/202708650

Before you do anything, make a diagram of the wires and make sure 
everything is off.

Brian

On 6/17/2013 7:03 PM, Jim Franklin wrote:
> My Google-fu is weak tonight. I removed some wainscoting and now the outlet
> boxes stick out about 1/2". I'm looking for some spacers to add around the box
> so the wall plate will sit flush and it will look ok. Have you heard of such a
> thing? One site recommended the Wire-mould spacers but they didn't look big
> enough in LxW dimensions.
>
> thanks,
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net

From pat at hornesystemstx.com  Tue Jun 18 07:05:13 2013
From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 08:05:13 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removed wainscoting, now outlet box sticks out
In-Reply-To: <DBBB235B-DF20-4B52-9C91-C817E8CAD7B0@groupwbench.org>
References: <DBBB235B-DF20-4B52-9C91-C817E8CAD7B0@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <51C05B09.1010703@hornesystemstx.com>

I've done a couple more complex things to cure this problem

Use a moto-tool to trim off the box.
You should also be able to get a hack saw blade in between the stud and 
the box and cut off the nails that hold the box in. Slide the box back 
and run screws or nails through the side of the box to hold the correct 
location.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Jim Franklin

> My Google-fu is weak tonight. I removed some wainscoting and now the outlet
> boxes stick out about 1/2". I'm looking for some spacers to add around the box
> so the wall plate will sit flush and it will look ok. Have you heard of such a
> thing? One site recommended the Wire-mould spacers but they didn't look big
> enough in LxW dimensions.
>
> thanks,
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
>
>

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems
(512) 797-7501 Voice & Text	5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From fitzgibbon3 at comcast.net  Tue Jun 18 08:11:24 2013
From: fitzgibbon3 at comcast.net (Tom & Marge FitzGibbon)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 14:11:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removed wainscoting, now outlet box sticks out
In-Reply-To: <51C05B09.1010703@hornesystemstx.com>
Message-ID: <1664761814.383029.1371564684817.JavaMail.root@sz0180a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

If you really don't want to mess with the boxes, depending on the room you can use 1/2 inch boards about 1-1/2 inches wide (or some other width that looks good) around the outlet box. Paint the boards either the wall color or the trim color depending on the look. I wouldn't recommend this for a formal living room or dining room, but for a casual den, basement or garage it is fine. 



----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Horne" <pat at hornesystemstx.com> 
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net 
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 9:05:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Removed wainscoting, now outlet box sticks out 

I've done a couple more complex things to cure this problem 

Use a moto-tool to trim off the box. 
You should also be able to get a hack saw blade in between the stud and 
the box and cut off the nails that hold the box in. Slide the box back 
and run screws or nails through the side of the box to hold the correct 
location. 

Peace, 
Pat 

Thusly spake Jim Franklin 

> My Google-fu is weak tonight. I removed some wainscoting and now the outlet 
> boxes stick out about 1/2". I'm looking for some spacers to add around the box 
> so the wall plate will sit flush and it will look ok. Have you heard of such a 
> thing? One site recommended the Wire-mould spacers but they didn't look big 
> enough in LxW dimensions. 
> 
> thanks, 
> _______________________________________________ 
> 
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> Suggested annual donation $12.96 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive 
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice & Text 5026 FM 2001 
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 
www.hornesystemstx.com 
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- 
_______________________________________________ 

Shop-talk at autox.team.net 
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Suggested annual donation $12.96 
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive 
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums 
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fitzgibbon3 at comcast.net 

From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Thu Jun 20 19:19:52 2013
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 21:19:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removed wainscoting, now outlet box sticks out
In-Reply-To: <DBBB235B-DF20-4B52-9C91-C817E8CAD7B0@groupwbench.org>
References: <DBBB235B-DF20-4B52-9C91-C817E8CAD7B0@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <2EE48E41-E733-4D4B-A7D1-025FB40CB552@groupwbench.org>

On Jun 17, 2013, at 10:03 PM, Jim Franklin wrote:

> I removed some wainscoting and now the outlet
> boxes stick out about 1/2".

As much as I initially didn't want to mess with removing the boxes, it only
took me a very unexpected 5 minutes to cut the nails from the old one and
insert new ones. SO much easier than anything else in this house...

Thanks!

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Fri Jun 28 13:02:03 2013
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 12:02:03 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
Message-ID: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>

Ibve never owned a spindle sander but I have a need for
a similar tool, but without the oscillating feature.  Ibm trying
to mount a leather burnishing tool (3/8b steel shaft) vertically
with a flat work surface.  Does anyone know if there are bench-top
oscillating spindle sanders out there where the oscillating feature
can be removed or defeated?
Thanks.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA

From darmstrong at nexicom.net  Fri Jun 28 13:15:37 2013
From: darmstrong at nexicom.net (Doug Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 15:15:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
In-Reply-To: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
References: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
Message-ID: <4102A3729FAC4FE088C4B4B6EF3F89D6@CAD>

Why not use a drill press and make up a work surface?

Doug Armstrong

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Hammatt, Mount
Vernon WA USA
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 3:02 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:

Ibve never owned a spindle sander but I have a need for
a similar tool, but without the oscillating feature.  Ibm trying
to mount a leather burnishing tool (3/8b steel shaft) vertically
with a flat work surface.  Does anyone know if there are bench-top
oscillating spindle sanders out there where the oscillating feature
can be removed or defeated?
Thanks.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darmstrong at nexicom.net



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6447 - Release Date: 06/28/13

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6431 - Release Date: 06/22/13

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Fri Jun 28 13:19:09 2013
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 12:19:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
In-Reply-To: <4102A3729FAC4FE088C4B4B6EF3F89D6@CAD>
References: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
	<4102A3729FAC4FE088C4B4B6EF3F89D6@CAD>
Message-ID: <69349CCB6BDE466290937D4D630CB5BE@StevePC>

Good question, but I have two answers
1.  Drill press is dedicated to drilling
2.  Drill presses are not designed for side loading.
Thanks.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA

From: Doug Armstrong
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 12:15 PM
To: 'Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA' ; 'Shop Talk List'
Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:

Why not use a drill press and make up a work surface?

Doug Armstrong

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Hammatt, Mount
Vernon WA USA
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 3:02 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:

Ibve never owned a spindle sander but I have a need for
a similar tool, but without the oscillating feature.  Ibm trying
to mount a leather burnishing tool (3/8b steel shaft) vertically
with a flat work surface.  Does anyone know if there are bench-top
oscillating spindle sanders out there where the oscillating feature
can be removed or defeated?
Thanks.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darmstrong at nexicom.net



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6447 - Release Date: 06/28/13

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3199/6431 - Release Date: 06/22/13




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6447 - Release Date: 06/28/13

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/png which had a name of wlEmoticon-smile[1].png]

From cavanadd at frontier.com  Fri Jun 28 14:02:06 2013
From: cavanadd at frontier.com (Dave C)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 13:02:06 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
In-Reply-To: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
References: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
Message-ID: <51CDEBBE.8050807@frontier.com>

My dad made a non-oscillating spindle sander using an old appliance 
motor on end with a work table attached to it.  He put the sanding drums 
normally used on drill presses on it and it worked fine.  He used it for 
both wood and stained glass.

As for side loading a drill press jacobs chuck, yes, if you were trying 
to use if for a milling or mortising machine it would be less than 
ideal, but I wouldn't think burnishing leather would stress the 
components that much.  And, as mentioned above, thousands (if not more) 
drum sanding attachments have been sold for drill press use without any 
problems.

Another option would be to get a cheap harbor freight drill press, or a 
used one on Craigslist.


On 6/28/2013 12:02 PM, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA wrote:
> Ibve never owned a spindle sander but I have a need for
> a similar tool, but without the oscillating feature.  Ibm trying
> to mount a leather burnishing tool (3/8b
 steel shaft) vertically
> with a flat work surface.  Does anyone know if there are bench-top
> oscillating spindle sanders out there where the oscillating feature
> can be removed or defeated?
> Thanks.
>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Jun 28 15:16:41 2013
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:16:41 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
In-Reply-To: <4102A3729FAC4FE088C4B4B6EF3F89D6@CAD>
Message-ID: <20130628211641.MVYBM.26132.root@cdptpa-web01-z01>

---- Doug Armstrong <darmstrong at nexicom.net> wrote: 
> Why not use a drill press and make up a work surface?

If you do that, be very certain to arrange things so nothing is hurt when the Jacobs taper holding the chuck to the spindle lets go and drops the chuck.

BTDT
I was lucky, it could have been much worse.

Randall

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 28 17:10:59 2013
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 16:10:59 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
In-Reply-To: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
References: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
Message-ID: <51CE1803.9060701@earthlink.net>

Steve - I understand the concern about the chuck in a drill press as 
I've also had one come off.  How about a wood stand and band clamping an 
electric drill to it.  Harbor Freight has a couple variable speed ones 
under $20, so I wouldn't really care about the side loading.  Just make 
sure the trigger lock is variable if not running at top speed is a concern.

Brian


On 6/28/2013 12:02 PM, Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA wrote:
> Ibve never owned a spindle sander but I have a need for
> a similar tool, but without the oscillating feature.  Ibm trying
> to mount a leather burnishing tool (3/8b
 steel shaft) vertically
> with a flat work surface.  Does anyone know if there are bench-top
> oscillating spindle sanders out there where the oscillating feature
> can be removed or defeated?
> Thanks.
>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Fri Jun 28 18:04:11 2013
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:04:11 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
In-Reply-To: <51CE1803.9060701@earthlink.net>
References: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
	<51CE1803.9060701@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <12D70C70D73C4C34917F6CDD938D3A12@StevePC>

Thanks everybody for all the suggestions.  However, this is not an
attempt to do something on the cheap nor is it a one-time use.  I
need something that is strong and sturdy and good for long term use.
The ideal item could be a non-oscillating spindle sander.  The home
use model would do fine and have the correct rotational speeds for
sanding/burnishing.  Just need to get rid of the oscillating feature...
...which was the original question.  Another alternative is going with
a bench-top spindle shaper.  I would have to use one that I can change
the pulley sizes to reduce the speed range down to around 1100 rpm.
So, to get back to my original question:  Does anyone know if there is
an oscillating spindle sander that can be made into a non-oscillating
model?

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA

From pat at hornesystemstx.com  Fri Jun 28 18:26:21 2013
From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 19:26:21 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
In-Reply-To: <12D70C70D73C4C34917F6CDD938D3A12@StevePC>
References: <1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
	<51CE1803.9060701@earthlink.net>
	<12D70C70D73C4C34917F6CDD938D3A12@StevePC>
Message-ID: <51CE29AD.1050703@hornesystemstx.com>

Rigid EB4424 says it has both oscillating and "rotary motion", which may 
mean a non-oscillating configuration

Delta SA350k doesn't say it is an oscillating sander, but some of the 
poor reviews indicate that the oscillation feature stops when a nylon 
gear strips!!

Peace,
Pat




Thusly spake Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA

> Thanks everybody for all the suggestions.  However, this is not an
> attempt to do something on the cheap nor is it a one-time use.  I
> need something that is strong and sturdy and good for long term use.
> The ideal item could be a non-oscillating spindle sander.  The home
> use model would do fine and have the correct rotational speeds for
> sanding/burnishing.  Just need to get rid of the oscillating feature...
> ...which was the original question.  Another alternative is going with
> a bench-top spindle shaper.  I would have to use one that I can change
> the pulley sizes to reduce the speed range down to around 1100 rpm.
> So, to get back to my original question:  Does anyone know if there is
> an oscillating spindle sander that can be made into a non-oscillating
> model?
>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
>
>

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems
(512) 797-7501 Voice & Text	5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From racertod at racertodd.com  Fri Jun 28 21:30:53 2013
From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 20:30:53 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spindle Sander question:
In-Reply-To: <12D70C70D73C4C34917F6CDD938D3A12@StevePC>
References: <51CE1803.9060701@earthlink.net>
	<1E235786289A47EBBE5ADA8701955883@StevePC>
	<51CE1803.9060701@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20130628201947.02152c30@mail.avvanta.com>

         I found this homemade spindle sander:
<http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/26412/shopmade-spindle-sander>

         If you don't want it to oscillate, then what you need is really 
nothing more than a motor mounted in a box.

         Rather than figuring out how to mount & wire up a motor - how 
about taking a small bench grinder, turning it 90deg and mounting it in a 
box similar to the above link?

         The trick in either case is matching up the motor shaft to 
whatever arbor/chuck works with the burnishing tools you use.  You may have 
to weld up an adapter to make it work.



Todd
Seattle,WA
'86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 276,000 miles
'01 Golf TDI, silver.   (new work car)       412,000 miles
'87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car)   654,000 miles <- Gone to a new 
home :(
http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff

From mark at bradakis.com  Sun Jun 30 19:31:26 2013
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 19:31:26 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net minor web update
Message-ID: <51D0DBEE.3050206@bradakis.com>

Finally!   Many years after the switch from majordomo to mailman, the 
web page

http://www.team.net/tn-mail.html

finally has current, useable information.  Imagine that!

It is just a start, though, there is SO much more to update on the 
site.  But with record
breaking heat here in Salt Lake City I'd rather be in my cool basement 
dungeon than out
in the very warm garage, perhaps updating Team.Net will be happening at 
more than a
glacial pace.

mjb.