[Shop-talk] camry hybrids

[John Miller]

>>     I just dragged home a freebie '86 Celica beater that has better
>> seats, better material quality, and better outward visibility than any
>> present Toyota.
>
> And, your `86 Celica gets about 22-24 mpg overall.  Don't kid a
> kidder--I was a Toyota factory-trained, master line mechanic in the
> `80s.  I know the technology of that time.
>
> Good cars for the age, but, don't bullshit me.

And please don't bullshit me.  Read what I wrote.

I said that '86 Celica had:

a) better seats
b) better material quality
c) better outward visibility

than any present Toyota.

Do you dispute those points?  Please explain where I said anything about 
the powertrain or fuel economy.

There's no question that there've been substantial changes (mostly but 
not all improvements) in powertrain technology since 1986.

My original point still stands:

a) Present-day Toyotas (and it's true of many of the other Japanese 
brands as well) have been thrifted and decontented mercilessly over the 
past two decades, to the point that it widely affects parts of the 
vehicle you see and feel.

b) The material quality is nowhere near what it was twenty years ago 
(you have to shop in the Lexus store to get material quality comparable 
to what was the norm in Toyota-label products in the early '90s)

c) They've always had tendencies toward odd designs but in some cases 
they've gone full-tilt down the weird hole often to the detriment of 
functionality.  I would note here that while Honda followed the 
Prius-style extended A-pillars with the last couple generations of 
Civic, the new Civic-based small Acura pulls them back to a more 
traditional shape.

John.