From lee at automate-it.com Mon Oct 1 22:48:58 2012 From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 23:48:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] help with removing gear cluster Message-ID: I've got a dead 2005 Mini Cooper manual transmission opened up. I want to use the main shaft as a clutch centering tool. The shift linkage and couple of other connecting parts are all removed, leaving the two shafts and shift forks in place in the case. What's holding the back end of those shafts in place? I took a couple (crappy phone) photos of the situation, see here: http://www.automate-it.com/photos/Mini/ On the other side of the case, where the other (not shown) ends of the two shafts would be in contact with the case, there are circles apparently cast into the aluminum case, but they don't seem to be like plugs or anything removable. Any ideas? thanks, Lee From lee at automate-it.com Mon Oct 1 23:03:54 2012 From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 00:03:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] help with removing gear cluster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For some reason the link below may not work. Try this one: http://www.automate-it.com/lee/trans.html > I've got a dead 2005 Mini Cooper manual transmission opened up. I want to use > the main shaft as a clutch centering tool. The shift linkage and couple of > other connecting parts are all removed, leaving the two shafts and shift forks > in place in the case. What's holding the back end of those shafts in place? I > took a couple (crappy phone) photos of the situation, see here: > > http://www.automate-it.com/photos/Mini/ > > On the other side of the case, where the other (not shown) ends of the two > shafts would be in contact with the case, there are circles apparently cast > into the aluminum case, but they don't seem to be like plugs or anything > removable. Any ideas? > > thanks, > Lee From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 11:28:32 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:28:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop water heater In-Reply-To: <020C6BC568724FAEAE63028D5022E665@EntCentPC> References: <20120927.074922.14201.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> <50646009.7060500@teleport.com> <020C6BC568724FAEAE63028D5022E665@EntCentPC> Message-ID: <506B2440.3070901@gmail.com> So my new garage has a bathroom in it. I like the feature very much, with one exception: it's on the opposite side of the house from the water heater. It takes a few minutes of running the water to get hot water. I don't want to run a pump, or plumb a loop, so I thought I'd install a water heater near the faucet and shower. What I'm wondering is what kind and capacity I should use. My first thought was a small 6- or 10-gallon tank heater, and plumb it to the existing hot water line. I'd bet there are no more than two gallons of water in the lines, so by the time the small heater is out of hot water, the hot water from the main tank would be there. But then I wonder if I should go with a larger capacity second heater to minimize any temperature changes, etc. Then I considered a tankless heater for the energy savings and felt a bad case of shipwright's disease kicking in... I'm putting this thing in the attic and I'd like to get this project done. What do you guys think? A small tank heater, 6 to 20 gallons? What size? Or should I go for the tankless? Thanks. Scott From jniolon at att.net Tue Oct 2 11:39:16 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 10:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] magnified metal cutting Message-ID: <1349199556.56972.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> don't know about ya'll, but I've always thought that machinists and what they do tends to be magical and maybe even alchemy. Neat video attached shows a very magnified view of a cutting tool cutting away metal turning in the lathe... amazing view. this looks like a plastic knife cutting play-doe but remember it's carbon steel ! found this on the Garagejournal.com board http://www.garagejournal.com/2012/06/slow-mo-magnified-metal-cutting/ john A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!...Lazarus Long From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Oct 2 11:42:57 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:42:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] magnified metal cutting In-Reply-To: <1349199556.56972.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1349199556.56972.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Interesting, how a bit of glop tends to accumulate at the tip of the tool! Doug On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:39 PM, john niolon wrote: > don't know about ya'll, but I've always thought that machinists and what > they do > tends to be magical and maybe even alchemy. Neat video attached shows a > very > magnified view of a cutting tool cutting away metal turning in the lathe... > amazing view. this looks like a plastic knife cutting play-doe > > but remember it's carbon steel ! found this on the Garagejournal.com > board > > http://www.garagejournal.com/2012/06/slow-mo-magnified-metal-cutting/ > > > john From cavanadd at frontier.com Tue Oct 2 19:31:01 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (Dave C) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:31:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop water heater In-Reply-To: <506B2440.3070901@gmail.com> References: <20120927.074922.14201.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com> <50646009.7060500@teleport.com> <020C6BC568724FAEAE63028D5022E665@EntCentPC> <506B2440.3070901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <506B9555.8010902@frontier.com> I'm normally not a big fan of residential tankless heaters, but I think this might be one of the few situations where a small tankless might pencil out assuming you have the amps available. I don't think I'd want to take a shower with a 6 gallon tank, and keeping a 20 gallon tank hot for the little use it would see would add up. On 10/2/2012 10:28 AM, Scott wrote: > So my new garage has a bathroom in it. I like the feature very much, > with one exception: it's on the opposite side of the house from the > water heater. > > It takes a few minutes of running the water to get hot water. I don't > want to run a pump, or plumb a loop, so I thought I'd install a water > heater near the faucet and shower. > > What I'm wondering is what kind and capacity I should use. My first > thought was a small 6- or 10-gallon tank heater, and plumb it to the > existing hot water line. I'd bet there are no more than two gallons of > water in the lines, so by the time the small heater is out of hot > water, the hot water from the main tank would be there. But then I > wonder if I should go with a larger capacity second heater to minimize > any temperature changes, etc. > > Then I considered a tankless heater for the energy savings and felt a > bad case of shipwright's disease kicking in... > > I'm putting this thing in the attic and I'd like to get this project > done. What do you guys think? A small tank heater, 6 to 20 gallons? > What size? Or should I go for the tankless? > > Thanks. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From tputland at charter.net Wed Oct 3 12:16:15 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 14:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] any tree experts out there? Message-ID: <54489ca5.1a934.13a27d7a73f.Webtop.47@charter.net> Not sure where my wife got it......I have a honey locust sapling in a 6" pot that has to be too small to put in the ground here in southern WI this close to winter. Any one have any idea how what I could/should do with it over winter? I did some searching online and didn't find this info.. Ohyea, shop content...I want to plant it behind the garage so it can one day shade my shop. :-) thanks! tim From tputland at charter.net Wed Oct 3 13:51:41 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 15:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] test Message-ID: <5ae6dc9d.1bcb4.13a282f06bb.Webtop.47@charter.net> From Ken.Freese at Aerojet.com Wed Oct 3 14:39:23 2012 From: Ken.Freese at Aerojet.com (Freese, Ken) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:39:23 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] any tree experts out there? In-Reply-To: <54489ca5.1a934.13a27d7a73f.Webtop.47@charter.net> References: <54489ca5.1a934.13a27d7a73f.Webtop.47@charter.net> Message-ID: <533B2E99494AFB4994A0675E031AF6331E484D5E@SACMBX01.corp.aerojet.com> Tim, Wife says: I would take the plant and its soil intact (together) and put it in a larger pot (12" would do); then put it in a nice bright spot in the house (a bit of sun OK, but do not burn it). Water it during the winter once a week, but not too much water (no soggy soil for long periods). Then wait until it gets a bit larger (one season is enough if it starts to grow, otherwise do two seasons), then plant it outdoors where you like it to be. This tree does well in full sun, so check that the garagre does not shade it out. Then the fun begins, where you have to provide a fence around it for a few years, to protect it from animals. The shape of the tree is like an umbrella and is drought tolerant after when it matures. Ken Freese -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:16 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] any tree experts out there? Not sure where my wife got it......I have a honey locust sapling in a 6" pot that has to be too small to put in the ground here in southern WI this close to winter. Any one have any idea how what I could/should do with it over winter? I did some searching online and didn't find this info.. Ohyea, shop content...I want to plant it behind the garage so it can one day shade my shop. :-) thanks! tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ken.freese at aerojet.com From tputland at charter.net Wed Oct 3 15:31:35 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 17:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] test Message-ID: <30922a88.1e7db.13a288a7dc9.Webtop.44@charter.net> I sent a couple things out to this and the shoptalk lists and didnt see any of them. Thought maybe we were down.....never mind..... On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Tim wrote: > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From shochschild at att.net Wed Oct 3 15:48:17 2012 From: shochschild at att.net (steve hochschild) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:48:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] any tree experts out there? In-Reply-To: <54489ca5.1a934.13a27d7a73f.Webtop.47@charter.net> References: <54489ca5.1a934.13a27d7a73f.Webtop.47@charter.net> Message-ID: <506CB2A1.3040509@att.net> I think no one has answered cause we don't understand the question. I was actually wondering if you were a troll. Put it in a bucket next to the window in the basement, or in a ceramic pot in the corner of your dining room. Water it every week or so. Plant it behind the garage in the spring. A honey locust in a 6" pot is kind of a weed, and isn't worth saving over the winter, in my opinion... Good luck! On 10/3/2012 1:16 PM, Tim wrote: > Not sure where my wife got it......I have a honey locust sapling in a 6" > pot that has to be too small to put in the ground here in southern WI > this close to winter. > > Any one have any idea how what I could/should do with it over winter? > > I did some searching online and didn't find this info.. > > Ohyea, shop content...I want to plant it behind the garage so it can one > day shade my shop. :-) > > thanks! > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From tputland at charter.net Wed Oct 3 18:05:43 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] any tree experts out there? Message-ID: <188561cc.205b8.13a29179bbd.Webtop.44@charter.net> Actually, I've had several answers that have come off list. Not sure what is up with the troll comment though..... Honey Locust trees are "desirable" here because the leaves are small and biodegrade quickly and thus lessen the impact on our newly restored lake here in Belleville (storm water drains into the lake). It is also a tree bought by and given to me by the boss. My main concern is how to handle a deciduous tree over winter in the house. I was not sure if it would go dormant in the house and then come back in the spring. This time last year I tried to bring in a couple of the bosses 24" planters that had huge begonias in them. I barely had 50% success and I was not happy with that. Still not sure what is up the troll comment b&b&b& tim On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:48 PM, steve hochschild wrote: > I think no one has answered cause we don't understand the question. I > was actually wondering if you were a troll. > > Put it in a bucket next to the window in the basement, or in a ceramic > pot in the corner of your dining room. Water it every week or so. > Plant it behind the garage in the spring. > > A honey locust in a 6" pot is kind of a weed, and isn't worth saving > over the winter, in my opinion... > > Good luck! > > On 10/3/2012 1:16 PM, Tim wrote: >> Not sure where my wife got it......I have a honey locust sapling in a >> 6" >> pot that has to be too small to put in the ground here in southern WI >> this close to winter. >> >> Any one have any idea how what I could/should do with it over winter? >> >> I did some searching online and didn't find this info.. >> >> Ohyea, shop content...I want to plant it behind the garage so it can >> one >> day shade my shop. :-) >> >> thanks! >> tim >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From jniolon at att.net Mon Oct 8 05:44:58 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 04:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Unbelievable new weapon . Message-ID: <1349696698.68398.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> if you ever find that YOUR SHOP is coming under attack...drag this puppy to the door...let her fly... I doubt there will be a second assault Subject: Fw: Unbelievable new weapon . 16000 rounds per second (wow). > http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZFjGbOyd2ek?rel=0 From jibjib at att.net Mon Oct 8 21:11:41 2012 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:11:41 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Unbelievable new weapon . In-Reply-To: <1349696698.68398.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1349696698.68398.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6C77C94C07484BE5A8BA486C1044B52D@EntCentPC> John, Naaa, too much of a mess to clean up afterwards. How about this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oYl-Lm9a6U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47cWewVcfE4 Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 4:45 AM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Unbelievable new weapon . if you ever find that YOUR SHOP is coming under attack...drag this puppy to the door...let her fly... I doubt there will be a second assault Subject: Fw: Unbelievable new weapon . 16000 rounds per second (wow). > http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZFjGbOyd2ek?rel=0 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From battmain at yahoo.com Tue Oct 9 02:33:13 2012 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 01:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Unbelievable new weapon . In-Reply-To: <1349696698.68398.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1349696698.68398.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1349771593.30625.YahooMailNeo@web140005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBa5bQfTGc I think this one would be more enjoyable for the shop owner. The suspect would also be marked. >________________________________ > From: john niolon >To: shop-talk >Sent: Monday, October 8, 2012 7:44 AM >Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Unbelievable new weapon . > >if you ever find that YOUR SHOP is coming under attack...drag this puppy to the >door...let her fly... I doubt there will be a second assault > >Subject: Fw: Unbelievable new weapon . > > >(snip) From jniolon at att.net Tue Oct 9 09:19:04 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (john niolon) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 08:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] quincy compressor expert Message-ID: <1349795944.22567.YahooMailRC@web181505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> some time ago maybe a year, maybe five I posed a question on a quincy 310 compressor and found a member with a wealth of information... saved the conversations but alas a crash or two has taken them to heaven... \ I need some help with a 310 with unloader problems... any body ??? thanks John A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!...Lazarus Long From bob at texmog.com Sun Oct 14 18:54:06 2012 From: bob at texmog.com (Bob Nogueira) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:54:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? Message-ID: I know how to do it in wood but not metal, How can I make a 8mm square hole in 1/2 inch thick brass? Thanks for any help. Bob From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Sun Oct 14 19:33:29 2012 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (Ian McFetridge) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:33:29 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If your tolerance are not too tight, you could do it like with wood: drill with a slightly smaller bit and then file (maybe dremel) out to square size. (you knew this, but mentioning it for completeness) If your tolerances are tight, I think you may need to enlist the help of a machine shop with something like a water-jet cutter. A press and punch will do smaller gauge material, but I don't think it could do 1/2" brass. - Ian On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Bob Nogueira wrote: > I know how to do it in wood but not metal, How can I make a 8mm square > hole in 1/2 inch thick brass? > Thanks for any help. > Bob From cavanadd at frontier.com Sun Oct 14 19:49:22 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (Dave C) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:49:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <507B6BA2.90003@frontier.com> Square broach. > http://www.dumont.com/broaches/square/ On 10/14/2012 6:33 PM, Ian McFetridge wrote: > If your tolerance are not too tight, you could do it like with wood: drill > with a slightly smaller bit and then file (maybe dremel) out to square > size. (you knew this, but mentioning it for completeness) If your > tolerances are tight, I think you may need to enlist the help of a machine > shop with something like a water-jet cutter. A press and punch will do > smaller gauge material, but I don't think it could do 1/2" brass. > > - Ian > > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Bob Nogueira wrote: > >> I know how to do it in wood but not metal, How can I make a 8mm square >> hole in 1/2 inch thick brass? >> Thanks for any help. >> Bob > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From mark at bradakis.com Sun Oct 14 19:54:20 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:54:20 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <507B6CCC.6030504@bradakis.com> Doesn't Horror Fraught carry square drill bits? I'll have to go back and find the link to that catalog. mjb. From jniolon at att.net Sun Oct 14 20:16:56 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:16:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? References: Message-ID: <42EB76D84CDA4525ACB47CB992678DB2@john5043a2d406> google corner mill or watts drill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian McFetridge" To: "Bob Nogueira" Cc: "Shop Talk" Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? > If your tolerance are not too tight, you could do it like with wood: > drill > with a slightly smaller bit and then file (maybe dremel) out to square > size. (you knew this, but mentioning it for completeness) If your > tolerances are tight, I think you may need to enlist the help of a machine > shop with something like a water-jet cutter. A press and punch will do > smaller gauge material, but I don't think it could do 1/2" brass. > > - Ian > > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Bob Nogueira wrote: > >> I know how to do it in wood but not metal, How can I make a 8mm >> square >> hole in 1/2 inch thick brass? >> Thanks for any help. >> Bob > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net From eltonclark at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 21:20:53 2012 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:20:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *Nuttin to it:* *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALiqAXiTQBg* * * * * On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Bob Nogueira wrote: > I know how to do it in wood but not metal, How can I make a 8mm square > hole in 1/2 inch thick brass? > Thanks for any help. > Bob > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage : > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eltonclark at gmail.com From phoenix722 at comcast.net Sun Oct 14 21:25:04 2012 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:25:04 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts Drill References: <42EB76D84CDA4525ACB47CB992678DB2@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: That is cool. I worked in a machine shop and one day a machinist was drilling a regular round hole and the drill bit developed a chatter for some reason, and he ended up with a six-sided hole. Actually, it was quite even--looked liked it was planned. Mike From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Mon Oct 15 08:48:15 2012 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:48:15 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? In-Reply-To: <507B6CCC.6030504@bradakis.com> References: <507B6CCC.6030504@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <001f01cdaae4$1efc0270$5cf40750$@cablespeed.com> No, but they sell at lot of them that drill ovals.....;-) -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:54 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? Doesn't Horror Fraught carry square drill bits? I'll have to go back and find the link to that catalog. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com From pethier at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 10:42:40 2012 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:42:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? In-Reply-To: <001f01cdaae4$1efc0270$5cf40750$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: <1229768638.308801.1350319360047.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Not ovals. Rounded triangles. Improperly-sharpened two-flute twist drills make holes with an odd number of lumps. Usually three, but sometimes five. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier at comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerald Brazil" > To: "Mark J Bradakis" , "Shop Talk" > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48:15 AM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? > No, but they sell at lot of them that drill ovals.....;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:54 PM > To: Shop Talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? > > Doesn't Horror Fraught carry square drill bits? I'll have to go back > and > find the link to that catalog. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier at comcast.net From jdinnis at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 11:00:49 2012 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:00:49 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? In-Reply-To: <001f01cdaae4$1efc0270$5cf40750$@cablespeed.com> References: <507B6CCC.6030504@bradakis.com> <001f01cdaae4$1efc0270$5cf40750$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: I need to take a picture. I actually have a HF drill bit that UNTWISTED while drilling through a piece of steel. It bit hard and pulled the 3/8 electric drill right out of my hand. When I retrieved the drill I found the bit had untwisted to the point that one of the flutes was straight for almost an inch along its length. I have never seen a drill bit this badly mangled. I can't imagine what it would have done in a press. On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Gerald Brazil wrote: > No, but they sell at lot of them that drill ovals.....;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:54 PM > To: Shop Talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Square Hole? > > Doesn't Horror Fraught carry square drill bits? I'll have to go back and > find the link to that catalog. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From pethier at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 11:15:10 2012 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:15:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts Drill In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1513191286.310718.1350321310390.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Count 'em again. It was probably either 5 or 7 sides. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier at comcast.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com http://www.mntriumphs.org ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike" > To: "John Niolon" > Cc: "Shop Talk" > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 10:25:04 PM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Watts Drill > That is cool. I worked in a machine shop and one day a machinist was > drilling a regular round hole and the drill bit developed a chatter > for some > reason, and he ended up with a six-sided hole. Actually, it was quite > even--looked liked it was planned. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier at comcast.net From phoenix722 at comcast.net Mon Oct 15 11:35:10 2012 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:35:10 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts Drill References: <1513191286.310718.1350321310390.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <9ABA56A1CC6A44EEB95BB6C31066ADF0@Mike> Well, you're probably right, as an uneven number makes sense, but this was many, many years ago, and my wetware is not so good anymore. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Mike" Cc: "Shop Talk" ; "John Niolon" Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Watts Drill > Count 'em again. It was probably either 5 or 7 sides. > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA From tputland at charter.net Thu Oct 18 07:21:07 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] virus scanners Message-ID: <362db679.4161f.13a7408d911.Webtop.46@charter.net> Hey all. I am not at work so I don't have access to the scanners recommended by some of you. So, what are the good totally free scanners that were recommended? Thanks From fishplate at gmail.com Thu Oct 18 08:02:32 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:02:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] virus scanners In-Reply-To: <362db679.4161f.13a7408d911.Webtop.46@charter.net> References: <362db679.4161f.13a7408d911.Webtop.46@charter.net> Message-ID: AVG and Avast! seem to be highly recommended... On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Tim wrote: > Hey all. > > I am not at work so I don't have access to the scanners recommended by > some of you. So, what are the good totally free scanners that were > recommended? > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate at gmail.com From jblair1948 at cox.net Thu Oct 18 08:19:55 2012 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:19:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] virus scanners In-Reply-To: References: <362db679.4161f.13a7408d911.Webtop.46@charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20121018101447.082fb7f8@cox.net> At 10:02 AM 10/18/2012, you wrote: >AVG and Avast! seem to be highly recommended... I'll second Avast. I was running a corporate copy of Symantic/Norton for years on my home computer. However, a virus managed to make it through. I was able to get rid of it, and changed to the free version of Avast. I have not had a problem since. The only thing I don't like about avast, is that when it goes out and downloads the updated virus definition file, it doesn't change colors or put an alert in the tray, etc. All of a sudden your computer slows down, and only after the file is downloaded and avast tells you it has updated the virus file do you know why the computer slowed down. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction From peterwmurray at gmail.com Thu Oct 18 08:43:38 2012 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:43:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] virus scanners In-Reply-To: <362db679.4161f.13a7408d911.Webtop.46@charter.net> References: <362db679.4161f.13a7408d911.Webtop.46@charter.net> Message-ID: I use AVG Free, but have started looking at others, as I have had items slip through. ESET is at the top of my list. Avast! is good as well, as is Microsoft Security Essentials. I do believe you get what you pay for in this regard. I would also recommend using Firefox (or Chrome) with the Adblock Plus plugin. If you can deal with a little bit of additional attention, I would highly recommend using NoScript. Javascript is one of the big vectors for delivering a malicious payload, next to Adobe Flash and PDF (always keep your Adobe Flash and PDF reader up to date). -Peter On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Tim wrote: > Hey all. > > I am not at work so I don't have access to the scanners recommended by > some of you. So, what are the good totally free scanners that were > recommended? > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com From eric at megageek.com Thu Oct 18 09:01:19 2012 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:01:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] virus scanners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I've been involved with computer security for over 18 years. I can tell you that the MOST IMPORTANT way to prevent virus is by understanding the threats and preventing behavior that exposes yourself. Most importantly, not open/running apps and downloads from the internet. No matter how great a antivirus program you have, if you run the virus, they can get in., Many can actually defeat antivirus apps. With that said, if this is your personal machine, MS Security Essentials OR AVG Free are fine. (Note, I don't recommend more than one anti-virus because they can really start to drain resources.) If it is a machine for others, then multiple AV installations are recommended, as well as limited rights on the machine. One thing that EVERYONE should do on EVERY machine you have is to replace (or add to) your host file. (for those on winX machines.) I have complied a host file that eliminates all of the ad/virus/malicious/etc websites (there are thousands). What this means... When you are viewing "foxnews.com" for example. You normally are loading the content from Foxnews, but you are also loading from ad sites and other websites. These OTHER websites are the ones that get breached and where you normally get infected with viruses. My host file tricks your computer into thinking that all of these site are on the local machine and never loads them. That means your browser only loads from the trusted sites. As a side benefit, you no longer see ads on many pages, and you surfing speed is increased! The host file is normally located in "windows/system32/drivers/etc" and the file has no extenstion. Replacing it with my file is all you need to do. Please note, the host file is a text document and this one has alot of comments on it so you can see what I'm doing here. Please contact me if you have any questions... >http://www.megageek.com/funstuff/fundoc.nsf/d601ad3d05e57888852566c00054521c/a60a238fb11251238525788c0044bcce?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,host< Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Peter Murray Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 10/18/2012 10:35 AM To Tim cc Shop Talk Subject Re: [Shop-talk] virus scanners I use AVG Free, but have started looking at others, as I have had items slip through. ESET is at the top of my list. Avast! is good as well, as is Microsoft Security Essentials. I do believe you get what you pay for in this regard. I would also recommend using Firefox (or Chrome) with the Adblock Plus plugin. If you can deal with a little bit of additional attention, I would highly recommend using NoScript. Javascript is one of the big vectors for delivering a malicious payload, next to Adobe Flash and PDF (always keep your Adobe Flash and PDF reader up to date). -Peter From lists at dinospider.com Thu Oct 18 10:18:54 2012 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:18:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] virus scanners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50802BEE.4080608@dinospider.com> WOW nice and complete host file. The only issue I see with it is that the spammer's are constantly changing the domains and this host file will be out of date soon, then I will have to hassle you for a new one :) Although most ad sites that you get hit by from yahoo or major web sites wont change much. mike On 10/18/2012 08:01 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, I've been involved with computer security for over 18 years. I can > tell you that the MOST IMPORTANT way to prevent virus is by understanding > the threats and preventing behavior that exposes yourself. > Most importantly, not open/running apps and downloads from the internet. > No matter how great a antivirus program you have, if you run the virus, > they can get in., Many can actually defeat antivirus apps. > > With that said, if this is your personal machine, MS Security Essentials > OR AVG Free are fine. (Note, I don't recommend more than one anti-virus > because they can really start to drain resources.) > > If it is a machine for others, then multiple AV installations are > recommended, as well as limited rights on the machine. > > > One thing that EVERYONE should do on EVERY machine you have is to replace > (or add to) your host file. (for those on winX machines.) > I have complied a host file that eliminates all of the > ad/virus/malicious/etc websites (there are thousands). > > What this means... > > When you are viewing "foxnews.com" for example. You normally are loading > the content from Foxnews, but you are also loading from ad sites and other > websites. These OTHER websites are the ones that get breached and where > you normally get infected with viruses. > > My host file tricks your computer into thinking that all of these site are > on the local machine and never loads them. That means your browser only > loads from the trusted sites. As a side benefit, you no longer see ads on > many pages, and you surfing speed is increased! > > The host file is normally located in "windows/system32/drivers/etc" and > the file has no extenstion. Replacing it with my file is all you need to > do. > > Please note, the host file is a text document and this one has alot of > comments on it so you can see what I'm doing here. > > Please contact me if you have any questions... >> http://www.megageek.com/funstuff/fundoc.nsf/d601ad3d05e57888852566c00054521c/a60a238fb11251238525788c0044bcce?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,host< > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > > > > > Peter Murray > Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > 10/18/2012 10:35 AM > > To > Tim > cc > Shop Talk > Subject > Re: [Shop-talk] virus scanners > > > > > > > I use AVG Free, but have started looking at others, as I have had > items slip through. ESET is at the top of my list. Avast! is good as > well, as is Microsoft Security Essentials. I do believe you get what > you pay for in this regard. > > I would also recommend using Firefox (or Chrome) with the Adblock Plus > plugin. If you can deal with a little bit of additional attention, I > would highly recommend using NoScript. Javascript is one of the big > vectors for delivering a malicious payload, next to Adobe Flash and > PDF (always keep your Adobe Flash and PDF reader up to date). > > -Peter > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com From tputland at charter.net Thu Oct 18 17:44:14 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] virus scanners Message-ID: <3f82969c.3c350.13a76435407.Webtop.47@charter.net> Thanks everyone who replied with help. We were clean but wanted a second "opinion" from a diff scanner. tim On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Tim wrote: > Hey all. > > I am not at work so I don't have access to the scanners recommended by > some of you. So, what are the good totally free scanners that were > recommended? > > Thanks From kvacek at ameritech.net Fri Oct 19 07:52:12 2012 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 08:52:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] TechShop Message-ID: <000c01cdae00$f0afab90$d20f02b0$@ameritech.net> >From today's Hemmings Motor News e-mail http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/05/10/diy-auto-restoration-made-easi er-techshop-expands-its-membership-based-workspaces/?refer=news Interesting concept - membership based access to all the tools you've dreamed about From tputland at charter.net Fri Oct 19 09:23:57 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] TechShop Message-ID: <188d3a91.42412.13a799fa94d.Webtop.48@charter.net> Love it. I wonder if they would do a pay as you go? On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Karl Vacek wrote: > From today's Hemmings Motor News e-mail > > > > http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/05/10/diy-auto-restoration-made-easi > er-techshop-expands-its-membership-based-workspaces/?refer=news > > > Interesting concept - membership based access to all the tools you've > dreamed about From shannahquilts at gmail.com Fri Oct 19 10:57:58 2012 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 09:57:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] TechShop In-Reply-To: <188d3a91.42412.13a799fa94d.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <188d3a91.42412.13a799fa94d.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: I believe the one near my house does a more-or-less pay as you go in that you can subscribe for a day. Shannah On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Tim wrote: > Love it. I wonder if they would do a pay as you go? > > > > On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Karl Vacek wrote: > > From today's Hemmings Motor News e-mail >> >> >> >> http://blog.hemmings.com/**index.php/2012/05/10/diy-auto-** >> restoration-made-easi >> er-techshop-expands-its-**membership-based-workspaces/?**refer=news >> >> >> Interesting concept - membership based access to all the tools you've >> dreamed about >> > ______________________________**_________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/**options/shop-talk/** > shannahquilts at gmail.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Fri Oct 19 11:35:53 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] TechShop In-Reply-To: References: <188d3a91.42412.13a799fa94d.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Tim wrote: > Love it. I wonder if they would do a pay as you go? It's not a new idea. There are maker spaces all over the place. I doubt there's many decent-sized cities without one. Be careful about the "equipment may vary by location", though. -- David Hillman From Bob at texmog.com Sat Oct 20 07:33:18 2012 From: Bob at texmog.com (Bob Nogueira) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 08:33:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rubber Message-ID: <641C7476-175E-4A28-A22D-65918C702ACC@texmog.com> I've found some new old stock rubber drive couplings that I need. I know that for the past 35 years they have been stored in a box and not exposed to light. They look perfect with no cracks and are still soft. What causes rubber to age, and if not cracked or dried out can I assume they are useable? Thanks From shochschild at att.net Sat Oct 20 09:58:09 2012 From: shochschild at att.net (steve hochschild) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:58:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rubber In-Reply-To: <641C7476-175E-4A28-A22D-65918C702ACC@texmog.com> References: <641C7476-175E-4A28-A22D-65918C702ACC@texmog.com> Message-ID: <5082CA11.2080008@att.net> Ozone. Yes. They might wear faster, but I don't think they will crumble or otherwise catastrophically fail. Just my experience based on using old rubber parts on my motorcycles. On 10/20/2012 8:33 AM, Bob Nogueira wrote: > I've found some new old stock rubber drive couplings that I need. I know that > for the past 35 years they have been stored in a box and not exposed to light. > They look perfect with no cracks and are still soft. > What causes rubber to age, and if not cracked or dried out can I assume they > are useable? > > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From cavanadd at frontier.com Sat Oct 20 11:42:19 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (Dave C) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 10:42:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rubber In-Reply-To: <5082CA11.2080008@att.net> References: <641C7476-175E-4A28-A22D-65918C702ACC@texmog.com> <5082CA11.2080008@att.net> Message-ID: <5082E27B.4020304@frontier.com> Also petroleum products and heat, and maybe UV. Sounds like they were well stored and I imagine they will be OK . On 10/20/2012 8:58 AM, steve hochschild wrote: > Ozone. > Yes. > > They might wear faster, but I don't think they will crumble or > otherwise catastrophically fail. > Just my experience based on using old rubber parts on my motorcycles. > > On 10/20/2012 8:33 AM, Bob Nogueira wrote: >> I've found some new old stock rubber drive couplings that I need. I >> know that >> for the past 35 years they have been stored in a box and not exposed >> to light. >> They look perfect with no cracks and are still soft. >> What causes rubber to age, and if not cracked or dried out can I >> assume they >> are useable? >> >> >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From paul.mele at usermail.com Sun Oct 21 21:32:25 2012 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 23:32:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] TechShop In-Reply-To: References: <188d3a91.42412.13a799fa94d.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <002601cdb005$dadc5410$9094fc30$@mele@usermail.com> <> Our techshop in Durham,NC does. I got the lifetime membership, as the place is fantastic for a car guy/ fabricator. PM From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Oct 25 19:30:16 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 21:30:16 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shower pans? Message-ID: <5089E7A8.4010603@gmail.com> So the garage shower, as it turns out, is shot. It's a one-piece fiberglass unit and the floor of it has disintegrated. I'd like to replace it with a Tileredi/Kerdi/prefab whatever pan and then tile the walls. The problem is that the old unit appears to be about 34" x 34". It's 34 inches from the surface of the drywall to the edge of the curb of the shower unit, and 34.5" wide from drywall surface to drywall surface in the alcove the unit is framed in. I don't think I can fit the same kind of unit through the bathroom door, and I want the durability of tile, so I don't want to replace the pre-fab unit with another pre-fab unit. But I can't seem to find a pan that looks like it will fit in the framed space. Should I be taking off the thickness of the drywall? That'd probably make it about 35.5" wide by 34.5" deep, though I have another three or four inches further I could go into the bathroom, so it could be deeper. The pans I'm looking at are $600, which is more than I want to risk on something that might not fit. I can order a nominal 36" x 36" unit--are these things like 2x4s and the 36" unit will fit? Or should I plan to notch studs, or...? And suggestions are appreciated, thanks. Scott From bk13 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 25 21:12:42 2012 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 20:12:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shower pans? In-Reply-To: <5089E7A8.4010603@gmail.com> References: <5089E7A8.4010603@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5089FFAA.5030407@earthlink.net> Scott - I don't know anything about them, but saw http://www.markeindustries.com/ in a magazine. They appear to have a nice website with a variety of information. I pay attention to this because I too have a shower that needs work. It's tile and I could see light from the bathroom in the crawlspace below at the floor/wall junction. Two years ago I fixed it with a thick bead of silicone bathroom caulk and last month it was still dry underneath, but I know it needs a more permanent solution, so I've been watching the products. I've been considering their shower system like http://www.schluter.com/8_4_kerdi_shower_kit.aspx They have a nice installation handbook at http://www.schluter.com/media/ShowerHandbook.pdf Brian On 10/25/2012 6:30 PM, Scott wrote: > So the garage shower, as it turns out, is shot. It's a one-piece > fiberglass unit and the floor of it has disintegrated. > > I'd like to replace it with a Tileredi/Kerdi/prefab whatever pan and > then tile the walls. > > The problem is that the old unit appears to be about 34" x 34". It's > 34 inches from the surface of the drywall to the edge of the curb of > the shower unit, and 34.5" wide from drywall surface to drywall > surface in the alcove the unit is framed in. > > I don't think I can fit the same kind of unit through the bathroom > door, and I want the durability of tile, so I don't want to replace > the pre-fab unit with another pre-fab unit. But I can't seem to find a > pan that looks like it will fit in the framed space. Should I be > taking off the thickness of the drywall? That'd probably make it about > 35.5" wide by 34.5" deep, though I have another three or four inches > further I could go into the bathroom, so it could be deeper. > > The pans I'm looking at are $600, which is more than I want to risk on > something that might not fit. I can order a nominal 36" x 36" > unit--are these things like 2x4s and the 36" unit will fit? Or should > I plan to notch studs, or...? > > And suggestions are appreciated, thanks. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From Jandkstone99 at msn.com Fri Oct 26 16:50:30 2012 From: Jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim and Kathy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:50:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos Message-ID: My daughter recently bought her first new car, which she is understandably proud of. She just got her new plates, which are an indication of her new KY residency, something she is also proud of and posted a photo of the plate on Facebook. I frequently see license plates blurred out in online photos and wonder if I should be concerned about the photo. Does anyone here know what the concern is about showing plate numbers online? Thanks. From lists at dinospider.com Fri Oct 26 16:57:18 2012 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:57:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <508B154E.7000707@dinospider.com> Its just paranoia...that is all. The paranoid say that some one could get information from the license number when they see the car on the web...maybe true...but what about seeing the car drive down the road when your plate is in full display ? I post all my cars on the web and they all have their license numbers on the pictures. Many pictures are even on my website from which you can find my address. Its all about how paranoid you (or your daughter) is. mike On 10/26/2012 03:50 PM, Jim and Kathy wrote: > My daughter recently bought her first new car, which she is understandably > proud of. She just got her new plates, which are an indication of her new KY > residency, something she is also proud of and posted a photo of the plate on > Facebook. I frequently see license plates blurred out in online photos and > wonder if I should be concerned about the photo. Does anyone here know what > the concern is about showing plate numbers online? > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists at dinospider.com From Bob at texmog.com Fri Oct 26 17:34:44 2012 From: Bob at texmog.com (Bob Nogueira) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:34:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shower pans? In-Reply-To: <5089FFAA.5030407@earthlink.net> References: <5089E7A8.4010603@gmail.com> <5089FFAA.5030407@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1DC07E42-7ED2-431D-AA17-6609BBE27832@texmog.com> I've done several showers over the years. Last couple I used the Kerdi system and you could never get me to go any other way. I will say that it looks a bit scary the way they do corners but it sure does work well. You can also do the shower in any shape or size. If you are withIn a few inches of a standard shower you can use their foam underpaid which gives you the correct slope. Check out http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php Ive gotten lots of good advise from the forum and he is very knowledgable of the Kerdi system. Bob Sent from my iPad On Oct 25, 2012, at 10:12 PM, Brian Kemp wrote: > Scott - I don't know anything about them, but saw > http://www.markeindustries.com/ > in a magazine. They appear to have a nice website with a variety of information. > > I pay attention to this because I too have a shower that needs work. It's tile and I could see light from the bathroom in the crawlspace below at the floor/wall junction. Two years ago I fixed it with a thick bead of silicone bathroom caulk and last month it was still dry underneath, but I know it needs a more permanent solution, so I've been watching the products. > > I've been considering their shower system like > http://www.schluter.com/8_4_kerdi_shower_kit.aspx > > They have a nice installation handbook at http://www.schluter.com/media/ShowerHandbook.pdf > > Brian > > > On 10/25/2012 6:30 PM, Scott wrote: >> So the garage shower, as it turns out, is shot. It's a one-piece fiberglass unit and the floor of it has disintegrated. >> >> I'd like to replace it with a Tileredi/Kerdi/prefab whatever pan and then tile the walls. >> >> The problem is that the old unit appears to be about 34" x 34". It's 34 inches from the surface of the drywall to the edge of the curb of the shower unit, and 34.5" wide from drywall surface to drywall surface in the alcove the unit is framed in. >> >> I don't think I can fit the same kind of unit through the bathroom door, and I want the durability of tile, so I don't want to replace the pre-fab unit with another pre-fab unit. But I can't seem to find a pan that looks like it will fit in the framed space. Should I be taking off the thickness of the drywall? That'd probably make it about 35.5" wide by 34.5" deep, though I have another three or four inches further I could go into the bathroom, so it could be deeper. >> >> The pans I'm looking at are $600, which is more than I want to risk on something that might not fit. I can order a nominal 36" x 36" unit--are these things like 2x4s and the 36" unit will fit? Or should I plan to notch studs, or...? >> >> And suggestions are appreciated, thanks. >> >> Scott >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bob at texmog.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Oct 26 18:17:26 2012 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:17:26 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos In-Reply-To: <508B154E.7000707@dinospider.com> Message-ID: <20121027001726.LZ4B2.109281.root@cdptpa-web19-z01> I agree about the paranoia, but just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you! Your daughter has likely posted all sorts of information on the web, like whether she lives alone and when she (or her roommate) will be gone to the movies. The license plate just gives a potential attacker or burglar a link between the on-line personality and the woman getting in that car over there. Nothing to worry about. -- Randall From Jandkstone99 at msn.com Fri Oct 26 18:35:36 2012 From: Jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim and Kathy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:35:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos In-Reply-To: <20121027001726.LZ4B2.109281.root@cdptpa-web19-z01> References: <20121027001726.LZ4B2.109281.root@cdptpa-web19-z01> Message-ID: Thanks all. I had thought about the address thing too but wanted to be sure there wasn't more to be concerned about. She currently lives on a farm with my sister in law and her husband, who has two full gun safes and is generally armed. I suspect she is reasonably safe, but will still suggest she delete the photo. As always, thanks. Sent from my iPad On Oct 26, 2012, at 7:17 PM, Randall wrote: > I agree about the paranoia, but just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you! > > Your daughter has likely posted all sorts of information on the web, like whether she lives alone and when she (or her roommate) will be gone to the movies. The license plate just gives a potential attacker or burglar a link between the on-line personality and the woman getting in that car over there. > > Nothing to worry about. > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From Jandkstone99 at msn.com Fri Oct 26 18:39:18 2012 From: Jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim and Kathy) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:39:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos In-Reply-To: References: <20121027001726.LZ4B2.109281.root@cdptpa-web19-z01> Message-ID: Oh, and I should probably add something about the nine large dogs who also live there. :) Sent from my iPad On Oct 26, 2012, at 7:35 PM, Jim and Kathy wrote: > Thanks all. I had thought about the address thing too but wanted to be sure there wasn't more to be concerned about. She currently lives on a farm with my sister in law and her husband, who has two full gun safes and is generally armed. I suspect she is reasonably safe, but will still suggest she delete the photo. > As always, thanks. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 26, 2012, at 7:17 PM, Randall wrote: > >> I agree about the paranoia, but just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you! >> >> Your daughter has likely posted all sorts of information on the web, like whether she lives alone and when she (or her roommate) will be gone to the movies. The license plate just gives a potential attacker or burglar a link between the on-line personality and the woman getting in that car over there. >> >> Nothing to worry about. >> >> -- Randall >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From eltonclark at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 19:14:53 2012 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:14:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos In-Reply-To: References: <20121027001726.LZ4B2.109281.root@cdptpa-web19-z01> Message-ID: *Similar but different; a friend who lives in Dallas where all sorts of tolls on roads* *and airport access are billed to the address traced from photos of ones license* *plate: The friend observed bike riders twisting around and stretching so they can cover the license plate WITH ONE FOOT!* *Tony * From battmain at yahoo.com Fri Oct 26 19:51:18 2012 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1351302678.37973.YahooMailNeo@web140003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Knowing what I know about the web, some paranoia is needed IMO. Most likely she has posted her hometown also. Having the plate online just speeds up the search process. Fake plates can also be made. You wont know that the plates have been used until you get the bills. It's just like identity theft. You don't know until the damage is done, so therefore in my paranoid mind, I do what I can to prevent it. It's kinda' like insurance. Some people have great experiences with their insurance company, while others have to jump through hoops. B >________________________________ > From: Jim and Kathy >To: Shop Talk >Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 6:50 PM >Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos > >My daughter recently bought her first new car, which she is understandably >proud of. She just got her new plates, which are an indication of her new KY >residency, something she is also proud of and posted a photo of the plate on >Facebook. I frequently see license plates blurred out in online photos and >wonder if I should be concerned about the photo. Does anyone here know what >the concern is about showing plate numbers online? >Thanks. From eric at megageek.com Fri Oct 26 20:29:52 2012 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 22:29:52 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] License plate photos In-Reply-To: <508B154E.7000707@dinospider.com> Message-ID: Mike, I respectfully disagree. The difference between your car photos and his daughter's photos are that there aren't predators that sit at home and try to stalk old men. I would never put a photo with a LP on the web. It's way too easy to remove or blur the LP and there is no reason to show it. And I surely wouldn't let me daughter (or any woman I cared about) do it either. BTW, I work for the NJ State Police as a senior Intel analyst, so I'm in the biz and see these kind of problems from time to time. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Mike Rambour Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 10/26/2012 18:55 To shop-talk at autox.team.net cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] License plate photos Its just paranoia...that is all. The paranoid say that some one could get information from the license number when they see the car on the web...maybe true...but what about seeing the car drive down the road when your plate is in full display ? I post all my cars on the web and they all have their license numbers on the pictures. Many pictures are even on my website from which you can find my address. Its all about how paranoid you (or your daughter) is. mike From jblair1948 at cox.net Tue Oct 30 19:17:47 2012 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:17:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Sandy - The Storm Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20121030211740.06c1cdc8@cox.net> Hey Gang, Here in Virginia Beach area we made out very well. There is some major damage in all the local cities, but nothing like what our friends to the North (New Jersey and New York especially) are facing. There are many homes, cars, and business' that are lost. But like I said, we made out a lot better than what I'm seeing on the TV in the north. To our friends in the north, our hearts and prayers go out to you all. The 1st thing I did this morning was get on the Red Cross web site and make a donation. I hope you all to the north are fine, and if you had any damage I pray it was minor and that you recover quickly! John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 19:39:18 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:39:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter Message-ID: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always alarm when I touch the probes, the needle doesn't sweep very well, etc. ,etc. I just put new batteries in it, so I'm thinking it might be the meter itself. So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be using this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from Radio Shack, Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get online, I can wait a few days for it to be overnighted. I don't make a living with the thing, but I'd like to enjoy using it, as opposed to the one I have now which came from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and I always questioned. What does the hive mind say? Thanks. Scott From fishplate at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 20:14:44 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:14:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Scott wrote: > So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? At work, I've got a variety of Fluke meters; a Fluke 77* comes to mind as well as a simpler one like the Fluke 113. But at home, I have a Radio Shack knockoff, as well as a Horrible Freight $4.99 special. The Flukes feel great, and you can drop 'em. You can drop the HF one, too, and then you can afford to buy another without feeling bad. *EDIT: It's a Fluke 73. Still a hoss... From battmain at yahoo.com Tue Oct 30 20:42:06 2012 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 19:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1351651326.51203.YahooMailNeo@web140006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I have a Fluke, Harbor Freight, Radio Shack and a few kits I built many years ago. The Harbor Freight one gets the most use. Probably because I don't care if I drop it, loose it or smoke it by screwing up. A new one costs less than lunch, or even a soda with a coupon. YMMV. B >________________________________ > From: Scott >To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net >Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 9:39 PM >Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter > >I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always alarm when I touch the probes, the needle doesn't sweep very well, etc. ,etc. I just put new batteries in it, so I'm thinking it might be the meter itself. > >So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be using this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from Radio Shack, Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get online, I can wait a few days for it to be overnighted. I don't make a living with the thing, but I'd like to enjoy using it, as opposed to the one I have now which came from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and I always questioned. >(snip) From bk13 at earthlink.net Tue Oct 30 20:41:57 2012 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 19:41:57 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50908FF5.5060405@earthlink.net> The cheap digital one on sale with the coupon for a few bucks at Harbor Freight is fine for most basic home tasks. As a plus, it is so inexpensive, you don't worry when you bump it and it falls down through the engine compartment onto the driveway. I don't know how accurate it actually is, but for measuring continuity, I don't really care if it .1 ohms or .3 ohms. I would consider their meter to be in line with anything you pick up at another store in the $10 price range. If money isn't a concern, I've liked any Fluke meter I've ever used, but you do pay for them. You also have to decide on analog or digital. Sometimes it is nice to watch the needle stay at a constant point and not drift. Also if chasing an intermittent connection, that pointer may respond faster and more obvious than a digital meter. I have both, but seldom use the analog, mainly because the probes suck. I guess that brings out a final factor. Check the probes. They should be comfortable to hold and the cables should be very flexible. I have a Craftsman meter that I bought back in the late 80's that has insulated clips that screw on to the probes for a good solid connection. Having the clip on leads is nice and I'd pay extra for that. Brian On 10/30/2012 6:39 PM, Scott wrote: > I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always > alarm when I touch the probes, the needle doesn't sweep very well, > etc. ,etc. I just put new batteries in it, so I'm thinking it might be > the meter itself. > > So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be > using this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from > Radio Shack, Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get > online, I can wait a few days for it to be overnighted. I don't make a > living with the thing, but I'd like to enjoy using it, as opposed to > the one I have now which came from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and I always > questioned. > > What does the hive mind say? > > Thanks. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 20:43:45 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:43:45 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50909061.1000600@gmail.com> Yeah, the one I have I got because it had a needle and I remember someone telling me being able to see the needle twitch was useful. But that's only true if the thing works, and this one doesn't seem to. I should just get the Harbor Freight cheap digital one then? On 10/30/2012 10:39 PM, Roland Wilhelmy wrote: > There are real reasons to have a multimeter (VOM) with a needle > (analog) display. If you want a needle display, you may have to pay a > lot or look on eBay. Harbor Freight's $5 digital meters are the most > for the least. I have a couple lying around. > > If it works, it's a Fluke. > > -Roland > with a very old Fluke digital meter and an even older Weston needle > meter. > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:39:18 -0400,Scott wrote: > > ::I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always > ::alarm when I touch the probes, the needle doesn't sweep very well, etc. > ::,etc. I just put new batteries in it, so I'm thinking it might be the > ::meter itself. > :: > ::So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be using > ::this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from Radio Shack, > ::Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get online, I can > ::wait a few days for it to be overnighted. I don't make a living with the > ::thing, but I'd like to enjoy using it, as opposed to the one I have now > ::which came from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and I always questioned. From mistertwo at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 30 21:24:28 2012 From: mistertwo at sbcglobal.net (Rand E) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 20:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50909061.1000600@gmail.com> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> <50909061.1000600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1351653868.24481.YahooMailRC@web182206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Check the automotive magazines. There are coupons for a free meter with any other purchase. Randy ________________________________ From: Scott Cc: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Tue, October 30, 2012 10:11:28 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter Yeah, the one I have I got because it had a needle and I remember someone telling me being able to see the needle twitch was useful. But that's only true if the thing works, and this one doesn't seem to. I should just get the Harbor Freight cheap digital one then? On 10/30/2012 10:39 PM, Roland Wilhelmy wrote: > There are real reasons to have a multimeter (VOM) with a needle > (analog) display. If you want a needle display, you may have to pay a > lot or look on eBay. Harbor Freight's $5 digital meters are the most > for the least. I have a couple lying around. > > If it works, it's a Fluke. > > -Roland > with a very old Fluke digital meter and an even older Weston needle > meter. > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:39:18 -0400,Scott wrote: > > ::I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always > ::alarm when I touch the probes, the needle doesn't sweep very well, etc. > ::,etc. I just put new batteries in it, so I'm thinking it might be the > ::meter itself. > :: > ::So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be using > ::this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from Radio Shack, > ::Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get online, I can > ::wait a few days for it to be overnighted. I don't make a living with the > ::thing, but I'd like to enjoy using it, as opposed to the one I have now > ::which came from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and I always questioned. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net From mark at bradakis.com Tue Oct 30 21:27:07 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:27:07 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50909A8B.3060404@bradakis.com> I have a digital one I got at Sears some time ago. I picked that particular model because it also has a temperature probe. It was handy for slipping into radiator cores, for example, or checking the temp in the garage fridge. Lost the temp probe some time ago. It also came with alligator clips that screwed onto the probes, those are pretty handy. A lot of times you want to clip one side to ground and then poke around with the other. I've been pretty happy with it, but I have no idea what the current equivalent model might be. mjb. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Oct 30 21:29:41 2012 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:29:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50909B25.6070507@xxiii.com> On 10/30/2012 9:39 PM, Scott wrote: > I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always >[snip] > So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be using > this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from Radio Shack, > Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get online, I can If you need one ASAP, Harbor Freight has a little "CenTech" DVM that sells for anywhere from free (literally, on sale with coupon)) to $10. I have three of them. They're so cheap, I keep two @ work in different locations so I don't have to bother carrying them around, and another at home. All have been reliable for 5+ years. They're not auto-ranging, but they do the job. But... I've been an electronics geek for 30+ years since I was a kid, and wanted something nicer. Specifically, one with capacitance measurement for HVAC and motor start/run caps. Fluke is THE name in meters; after using a friend's, decided I needed one too. Kinda like Snap-On tools -- sure, Sears will loosen your bolts most the time but the S.O. just feels better doing it. Same with Fluke. Decided on either a Fluke 116 (HVAC tech's) or 117 (electrician's.) Either is about $165 on Amazon. I went cheap, and after two weeks watching Ebay, scored a used very clean 117 for only $70. Lots of nice bells & whistles: capacitance range, frequency reading on the AC & DC voltage ranges, manual or auto-ranging, simulated analog bar-graph display on the LCD, remote "point in the general direction" hot wire detection, etc. And it feels solid as hell using it :) -Wayne From cavanadd at frontier.com Tue Oct 30 23:20:47 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (Dave C) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:20:47 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50909B25.6070507@xxiii.com> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> <50909B25.6070507@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <5090B52F.3040307@frontier.com> I bought a Simpson 260 years and years ago when I was still working in the trades and it was the go-to meter of the day. I still have it but haven't taken it down off the shelf for ages. If I had a dedicated electronics bench I would probably keep it set up just because it's so cool, but I haven't done any real electronics work in decades, and the 260 is really too delicate to be banging around the shop. What I do have is four of five of the little red Harbor Freight meters scattered all around the shop, garage and work so one is always handy for troubleshooting. I even put a two pin SAE connector on once to take on my motorcycle to monitor voltage while using various electronic accessories while riding. I remember once I took three or four of them to work and compared them against a good Fluke and they were more or less spot on on a number of voltage and resistance readings. For checking continuity in motors and control wiring, like a lot of you, I prefer an analog meter. For years I used a cheap Radio Shack model, but this year it finally bit the dust and I got this to replace it: > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00064CH6A/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00 So far it's been fine. (And of course, about ten or so years ago I also bought an old-school black analog clamp on Amprobe, because they are really cool, too. Don't need batteries, either.) On 10/30/2012 8:29 PM, Wayne wrote: > On 10/30/2012 9:39 PM, Scott wrote: >> I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always >> [snip] >> So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be using >> this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from Radio Shack, >> Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get online, I can > > If you need one ASAP, Harbor Freight has a little "CenTech" DVM that > sells for anywhere from free (literally, on sale with coupon)) to $10. > I have three of them. They're so cheap, I keep two @ work in different > locations so I don't have to bother carrying them around, and another > at home. All have been reliable for 5+ years. They're not > auto-ranging, but they do the job. > > But... I've been an electronics geek for 30+ years since I was a kid, > and wanted something nicer. Specifically, one with capacitance > measurement for HVAC and motor start/run caps. Fluke is THE name in > meters; after using a friend's, decided I needed one too. Kinda like > Snap-On tools -- sure, Sears will loosen your bolts most the time but > the S.O. just feels better doing it. Same with Fluke. > > Decided on either a Fluke 116 (HVAC tech's) or 117 (electrician's.) > Either is about $165 on Amazon. I went cheap, and after two weeks > watching Ebay, scored a used very clean 117 for only $70. Lots of nice > bells & whistles: capacitance range, frequency reading on the AC & DC > voltage ranges, manual or auto-ranging, simulated analog bar-graph > display on the LCD, remote "point in the general direction" hot wire > detection, etc. And it feels solid as hell using it :) > > -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From jblair1948 at cox.net Wed Oct 31 05:52:05 2012 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 07:52:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50908FF5.5060405@earthlink.net> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> <50908FF5.5060405@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20121031074901.04d38528@cox.net> At 10:41 PM 10/30/2012, Brian Kemp wrote: >You also have to decide on analog or digital. Sometimes it is nice to watch the >needle stay at a constant point and not drift. Also if chasing an intermittent >connection, that pointer may respond faster and more obvious than a digital >meter. I have both, but seldom use the analog, mainly because the probes >suck. I have to agree with this. I prefer the analog meters and have several of them. As for the digital ones, I have a bunch of the inexpensive H.F. units - one in every car, one in every tool box, etc. >I have a Craftsman meter that I bought back in the late 80's that has insulated >clips that screw on to the probes for a good solid connection. Having the clip >on leads is nice and I'd pay extra for that. I agree about having the ability to clip a lead to a connection, but I have a bunch of the aligator clips from Radio Shack and use them to clip the meter to a test point or ground. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 08:45:01 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 09:45:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Scott wrote: > I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always alarm > when I touch the probes, the needle doesn't sweep very well, etc. ,etc. I > just put new batteries in it, so I'm thinking it might be the meter itself. > > So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be using > this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from Radio Shack, > Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get online, I can wait > a few days for it to be overnighted. I don't make a living with the thing, > but I'd like to enjoy using it, as opposed to the one I have now which came > from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and I always questioned. > > What does the hive mind say? I've got a ~$20 extech one. came with a type k thermocouple, works fine, seems more likely to last past the first drop. Whatever you buy, do yourself a favor and get a kit of probes. It's ncie to have ones with clips sometimes, it's nice to have a set that are six feet long, it's nice to have plunger clips, but you don't want to use any of these all the time. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From doug at dougbraun.com Wed Oct 31 11:23:15 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 13:23:15 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: <50908FF5.5060405@earthlink.net> References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> <50908FF5.5060405@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Real cheap (HF-class) meters of today have one big advantage of ones form a few years ago: The test leads are much better made and more secure. A lot of old meters had pin-style plugs that were soldered to cheap thin wire, and either the wire would break off in the plug base, or the plug would fall out of the socket in the meter. Today the leads all seem to have molded-on banana-style plugs with an additional insulating sleeve. This is a good thing. I suspect this is due to consumer safety regulations. Also, having filled my generator several times over the last three days, I am starting to really appreciate the new-style gas cans, with the no-spew spout. I have an old one and a new one, and the old one tends to spew gas all over the generator unless I am very careful. Doug From kennedybc at comcast.net Wed Oct 31 14:49:59 2012 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian Kennedy) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:49:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <313AC01F-3540-4610-B1AA-19AC54AE6625@comcast.net> David, I find the Radio Shack VOMS are not very accurate. I Googled VOM reviews and bought whatever was recommended. They work pretty well except the banana plugs from other cables don't stay in very well. I'm on the road, so I don't have the info about the VOMs with me. Brian Kennedy On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:45 AM, David Scheidt wrote: > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Scott wrote: >> I suspect my multimeter isn't 100%. The continuity test won't always alarm >> when I touch the probes, the needle doesn't sweep very well, etc. ,etc. I >> just put new batteries in it, so I'm thinking it might be the meter itself. >> >> So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? I'd like to be using >> this thing tomorrow, so ideally I can get a decent one from Radio Shack, >> Ace, etc., but if I really want a whatever I can only get online, I can wait >> a few days for it to be overnighted. I don't make a living with the thing, >> but I'd like to enjoy using it, as opposed to the one I have now which came >> from Home Depot (or Lowe's) and I always questioned. >> >> What does the hive mind say? > > I've got a ~$20 extech one. came with a type k thermocouple, works > fine, seems more likely to last past the first drop. > > Whatever you buy, do yourself a favor and get a kit of probes. It's > ncie to have ones with clips sometimes, it's nice to have a set that > are six feet long, it's nice to have plunger clips, but you don't want > to use any of these all the time. > > > -- > David Scheidt > dmscheidt at gmail.com > _ From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Tue Oct 30 20:58:21 2012 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 19:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter In-Reply-To: References: <50908146.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1351652301.13976.YahooMailRC@web184701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> They are a little pricey and "old school," but it is my favorite meter. http://www.simpsonelectric.com/index.asp?p=Products&id=30&sid=40&ss=31 a little history about Simpson meters: http://www.simpsonelectric.com/index.asp?p=About_Simpson_Electric&s=History ________________________________ From: Jeff Scarbrough To: "shop-talk at autox.team.net" Sent: Tue, October 30, 2012 7:30:36 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Need a new multimeter On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Scott wrote: > So who likes their meter and what kind do you have? At work, I've got a variety of Fluke meters; a Fluke 77* comes to mind as well as a simpler one like the Fluke 113. But at home, I have a Radio Shack knockoff, as well as a Horrible Freight $4.99 special. The Flukes feel great, and you can drop 'em. You can drop the HF one, too, and then you can afford to buy another without feeling bad. *EDIT: It's a Fluke 73. Still a hoss... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net