From tputland at charter.net Tue Jul 3 16:42:27 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 18:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] computer question Message-ID: <1d9493fc.104da.1384f024d39.Webtop.44@charter.net> I have a picture currently being used as my wall paper that I cannot, for the life of me, remember where I have it saved, nor can I find it in "windows". Can someone please tell me where in windows, a Win7 PC would have this pic saved? Thanks tim From tputland at charter.net Tue Jul 3 16:53:52 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 18:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] computer question Message-ID: <5e109c82.1066b.1384f0cc39e.Webtop.44@charter.net> I got it. Took me a while but I finally found it. (I am still more comfortable in 2000 or XP which is what my worthless MCSE and MCSA are in). Now back to your regularly scheduled browsings.... PEACE :-) tim On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Tim wrote: > I have a picture currently being used as my wall paper that I cannot, > for the life of me, remember where I have it saved, nor can I find it > in "windows". > > Can someone please tell me where in windows, a Win7 PC would have this > pic saved? > > Thanks > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From strovato at optonline.net Tue Jul 3 17:00:18 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 19:00:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] computer question In-Reply-To: <1d9493fc.104da.1384f024d39.Webtop.44@charter.net> References: <1d9493fc.104da.1384f024d39.Webtop.44@charter.net> Message-ID: <0M6L00CJVX9WGDP0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I think you can right-click on the desktop and select personalize. Select desktop background. You should see a "picture location" field. You should be able to track it down from there. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 06:42 PM 7/3/2012, Tim wrote: >I have a picture currently being used as my wall paper that I cannot, >for the life of me, remember where I have it saved, nor can I find it in >"windows". > >Can someone please tell me where in windows, a Win7 PC would have this >pic saved? > >Thanks >tim >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net From jniolon at att.net Wed Jul 4 10:12:11 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 11:12:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger Message-ID: A friend has been offered me the the 'opportunity' to help him build an airplane tugger... (motorized unit to pull/push light plane in and out of the hanger... don't want big, bulky...don't want gas powered. Want something a average person could operate easily I'm lookin on the net and see the high $$ commercial units but little on design detail. I'm picturing something using a winch mounted on a carriage with battery/charger and controls underneath... the spoolon the winch will over the wheel (with some type of non slipping belting rolling on the wheel) to drive it. Probably something like wheelbarrow wheels would be on a welded axle so pullling on one would pull the other... kinda/sorta something like this http://jniolon.classicpickup.com/tugger.jpg anyone ever done this personally ?? suggestions ?? flaws ?? this brain trust could build the eiffel tower with barbed wire and fence posts... I know someone has done this before.... fly guys ??? help ??? thanks John I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? From jandkstone99 at msn.com Wed Jul 4 10:13:29 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 11:13:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output Message-ID: With 60 just around the corner, I find my making more frequent trips to the bathroom at night. I figure a discussion on BPH would be way off topic, but surely LEDs are not. I wanted to put a nightlight in the bathroom, but because of the way the bathroom is designed my wife found anything plugged into an existing outlet to be to distracting when she was trying to sleep. So, I did a little electrical surgery on the fan light switches right by the toilet. I replaced the two existing switches with one double switch, then put a hard-wired hallway light into the empty space. Here is the one I used: http://www.techmall.com/Pass-Seymour-Decorator-Full-Hallway-Light-TMHWL-p/510 47.htm So far, so good, but the the 3 LEDs produce much more light than I wanted and having it right at eye level proved to be pretty annoying in the middle of the night. After a little experimentation, I painted the inside of the exterior plastic lens white, then put two layers of blue masking tape over the inner lens that covers the LEDs. From an esthetic perspective the result is perfect. The lens looks white when the other lights are on but gives me a soft blue glow when they are not. However, the LEDs are now more tightly enclosed than before, with flammable paper just a fraction of an inch away. People say that LEDs don't produce any heat, but is that just relative to incandescent blubs? Does this seem safe or have I created the possibility of a dangerous situation? Thanks. Jim From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Jul 4 10:51:50 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 09:51:50 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <015501cd5a05$4ee529b0$0601a8c0@randall> How much force do you need out of this thing? There is a neat little DC transaxle thing that forms the basis for many of the "mobility scooters". 24v DC motor, probably rated at 1/2 hp but I'm guessing it will do several times that for short bursts. Integral gear drive and differential, usually also an electric brake. If you can find one on the surplus market (I've seen them for under $150), or maybe find a damaged scooter for cheap (I got one at a yard sale for $70 that only had a couple of bad switches), I'd think about using that instead of the winch & belt drive. -- Randall From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Jul 4 10:37:42 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 09:37:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <014e01cd5a03$55965650$0601a8c0@randall> > People say that LEDs don't produce any heat, but is that just > relative to > incandescent blubs? Does this seem safe or have I created > the possibility of > a dangerous situation? The heat produced by the LED is very small, 1% or less of what a similar incandescent bulb produces. Most LEDs produce very little, but some of the brighter ones do require heatsinks to carry away the excess heat, otherwise their life will be greatly shortened. If your LEDs aren't mounted to an obvious heat sink, then I don't think you've got anything to worry about. Still, it couldn't hurt to run it for a day, then remove the cover and see how warm things are inside. The cheesy little LED nightlights we got from Costco had dimmers built into them. Only problem is that they forget the dimmer setting (and go back to slowly pulsing in 7 different colors) if the power fails. That's not necessarily a Bad Thing but it might be annoying if your power is bad. -- Randall From ejrussell at mebtel.net Wed Jul 4 11:17:43 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 13:17:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <937014A8BD58473581F0E8166C6CACC1@EricJRussellPC> I've seen trailer tugs for boat trailers/camping trailers. Could one of those be modified for the airplane? http://www.powermoverinc.net/ http://www.ebay.com/itm/5500-lb-TRAILER-ELECTRIC-POWER-DOLLY-RV-MOVER-BOAT-4-WHEELS-BATTERY-OPERATED-12V-/180917097091?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1f7fd283&vxp=mtr Eric Russell Mebane, NC ----- Original Message ----- >A friend has been offered me the the 'opportunity' to help him build an > airplane tugger... (motorized unit to pull/push light plane in and out of > the > hanger... don't want big, bulky...don't want gas powered. Want > something a > average person could operate easily From rkg at teleport.com Wed Jul 4 11:21:45 2012 From: rkg at teleport.com (Richard George) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:21:45 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FF47BA9.3090303@teleport.com> Hi, there was an old book titled "shop savvy" by roy Moungovan that had a design for a rig to move small aircraft like this that used a big power drill and some kind of winch gear train... Best, rkg (Richard George) On 7/4/2012 9:12 AM, John Niolon wrote: > A friend has been offered me the the 'opportunity' to help him build an > airplane tugger... (motorized unit to pull/push light plane in and out of the > hanger... don't want big, bulky...don't want gas powered. Want something a > average person could operate easily > > I'm lookin on the net and see the high $$ commercial units but little on > design detail. I'm picturing something using a winch mounted on a carriage > with battery/charger and controls underneath... the spoolon the winch will > over the wheel (with some type of non slipping belting rolling on the wheel) > to drive it. Probably something like wheelbarrow wheels would be on a welded > axle so pullling on one would pull the other... kinda/sorta something like > this > http://jniolon.classicpickup.com/tugger.jpg > > anyone ever done this personally ?? suggestions ?? flaws ?? > > this brain trust could build the eiffel tower with barbed wire and fence > posts... I know someone has done this before.... fly guys ??? help ??? > > thanks > John > > > > > > I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rkg at teleport.com From fishplate at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 12:40:06 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 14:40:06 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > However, the LEDs are now more tightly > enclosed than before, with flammable paper just a fraction of an inch away. If it was a problem, it would melt the lens in normal operation, I would think... ...but... You might check the local craft store or hobby shop for translucent blue paint. Or heck, even a thin coat of regular blue paint would pass as much light as blue tape. From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Jul 4 16:04:01 2012 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:04:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cd5a30$eb7229b0$c2567d10$@ameritech.net> If this is for a light plane on hard surface, something generally like this (first Google hit - I don't know about this particular brand): http://airtug.com/ can be built very simply and cheaply using a starter motor (or a winch motor) and small pneumatic wheels, with a 12-volt car battery for power. These can be built in nosewheel or tailwheel-airplane configuration. For a tailwheel design, Google "Taildragger Dragger" - probably the oldest brand out there, and they work. Copy one of those and it'll serve you well. If it's going onto grass, though, the problem gets much more difficult. I pull the Stearman (2500 lbs. more or less with full fuel and no crew) out (when I'm too tired or lazy to just push it) with a 17-HP Craftsman lawn tractor. Problem is, it's only 2-wheel drive and even when I get it to not spin one wheel, it can easily spin both at once. For grass, it really needs 4-wheel drive. If you would consider other options than a mobile unit, I winch the plane back in with a Horrible Freight 2,000 pouund ($49.95) winch and a car battery - no problem at all. I'm next planning to install a ground anchor about 35 feet out in front of the hangar and clip a snatch block on there to allow me to use the winch to pull the plane out as well. Karl -----Original Message----- From: John Niolon Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger A friend has been offered me the the 'opportunity' to help him build an airplane tugger... (motorized unit to pull/push light plane in and out of the hanger... don't want big, bulky...don't want gas powered. Want something a average person could operate easily From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Jul 4 16:11:12 2012 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:11:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000101cd5a31$ec8c08b0$c5a41a10$@ameritech.net> One other thing - red light is generally much more tolerable for those with trouble sleeping than blue light. We had blue clock radios for years and the light from those damn things just drilled through my eyelids. Took a long time to figure out why I couldn't sleep. We switched to red-lighted ones, and eventually added a large reddish salt lamp that casts a soft glow over the entire bedroom, and the light doesn't bother me at all. Jill had no issues either way, but says she also sees the red light far less than the blue light. Karl -----Original Message----- From: Jim Stone Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output because of the way the bathroom is designed my wife found anything plugged into an existing outlet to be to distracting when she was trying to sleep. So, I did a little electrical surgery on the fan light switches right by the toilet. I replaced the two existing switches with one double switch, then put a hard-wired hallway light into the empty space. Here is the one I used: http://www.techmall.com/Pass-Seymour-Decorator-Full-Hallway-Light-TMHWL-p/51 0 47.htm From berry at kerch.com Wed Jul 4 16:56:22 2012 From: berry at kerch.com (Berry Kercheval) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 15:56:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger In-Reply-To: <000001cd5a30$eb7229b0$c2567d10$@ameritech.net> References: <000001cd5a30$eb7229b0$c2567d10$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: Or you could try to make something like this: http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/13033 Sent from my iPad On Jul 4, 2012, at 3:04 PM, "Karl Vacek" wrote: > If this is for a light plane on hard surface, something generally like this > (first Google hit - I don't know about this particular brand): > http://airtug.com/ can be built very simply and cheaply using a starter > motor (or a winch motor) and small pneumatic wheels, with a 12-volt car > battery for power. > > These can be built in nosewheel or tailwheel-airplane configuration. For a > tailwheel design, Google "Taildragger Dragger" - probably the oldest brand > out there, and they work. Copy one of those and it'll serve you well. > > If it's going onto grass, though, the problem gets much more difficult. I > pull the Stearman (2500 lbs. more or less with full fuel and no crew) out > (when I'm too tired or lazy to just push it) with a 17-HP Craftsman lawn > tractor. Problem is, it's only 2-wheel drive and even when I get it to not > spin one wheel, it can easily spin both at once. For grass, it really needs > 4-wheel drive. > > If you would consider other options than a mobile unit, I winch the plane > back in with a Horrible Freight 2,000 pouund ($49.95) winch and a car > battery - no problem at all. I'm next planning to install a ground anchor > about 35 feet out in front of the hangar and clip a snatch block on there to > allow me to use the winch to pull the plane out as well. > > Karl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Niolon > Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger > > A friend has been offered me the the 'opportunity' to help him build an > airplane tugger... (motorized unit to pull/push light plane in and out of > the > hanger... don't want big, bulky...don't want gas powered. Want something > a average person could operate easily > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/berry at kerch.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Wed Jul 4 17:02:15 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] airplane tugger In-Reply-To: References: <000001cd5a30$eb7229b0$c2567d10$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jul 2012, Berry Kercheval wrote: > Or you could try to make something like this: > http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/13033 "Special Note: Will not work with Seneca, Arrow, Aerostar, Lance, Saratoga, Cherokee Six, ******Boeing 747*****, Malibu, Beech Sierra." ( Emphasis mine ). LOL, really? -- David Hillman From jandkstone99 at msn.com Wed Jul 4 18:41:00 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 19:41:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output In-Reply-To: <000101cd5a31$ec8c08b0$c5a41a10$@ameritech.net> References: , <000101cd5a31$ec8c08b0$c5a41a10$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: Interesting. We have a blue LED clock radio too and my wife hates it. It doesn't bother me, but I will switch to red if I end up having to redo the bathroom light. In the meantime, I will follow the advice here and check the tape in a few days. I did feel the outer lens and it is totally cool to the touch, but I suppose that doesn't mean much. As always, thanks for the advice and recommendations. > From: kvacek at ameritech.net > To: jandkstone99 at msn.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] LED heat output > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 17:11:12 -0500 > > One other thing - red light is generally much more tolerable for those with > trouble sleeping than blue light. We had blue clock radios for years and > the light from those damn things just drilled through my eyelids. Took a > long time to figure out why I couldn't sleep. We switched to red-lighted > ones, and eventually added a large reddish salt lamp that casts a soft glow > over the entire bedroom, and the light doesn't bother me at all. Jill had > no issues either way, but says she also sees the red light far less than the > blue light. > Karl > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Stone > Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output > > because of the way the bathroom is designed my wife found anything > plugged into an existing outlet to be to distracting when she was trying to > sleep. > So, I did a little electrical surgery on the fan light switches right by the > toilet. I replaced the two existing switches with one double switch, then > put a hard-wired hallway light into the empty space. Here is the one I > used: > http://www.techmall.com/Pass-Seymour-Decorator-Full-Hallway-Light-TMHWL-p/51 > 0 > 47.htm From bk13 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 18:00:27 2012 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:00:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FF62A9B.7010603@earthlink.net> Jim - I have an older version of this: http://www.theenergyconscious.com/lig2210.html (search sidelite LimeLite) or see their store with more options at http://store.limelite.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1817 It puts off a dull green (or blue) glow that doesn't mess with night vision like the white LEDs. They are also under $10. While they look like a duplex cover, they are really just cover the single gang box and extend out to the side. I got mine locally, though I don't remember where. If you get around to replacing the bath fan, look at one of the Panasonic models with a light. Most of them also have a little night light. It uses the regular 4W nightlight bulbs that you would just turn on when needed. You will also appreciate how quiet a 0.3 sone fan is, unless you desire cover noise. Brian On 7/4/2012 9:13 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > With 60 just around the corner, I find my making more frequent trips to the > bathroom at night. I figure a discussion on BPH would be way off topic, but > surely LEDs are not. I wanted to put a nightlight in the bathroom, but > because of the way the bathroom is designed my wife found anything plugged > into an existing outlet to be to distracting when she was trying to sleep. > So, I did a little electrical surgery on the fan light switches right by the > toilet. I replaced the two existing switches with one double switch, then put > a hard-wired hallway light into the empty space. Here is the one I used: > http://www.techmall.com/Pass-Seymour-Decorator-Full-Hallway-Light-TMHWL-p/510 > 47.htm > > So far, so good, but the the 3 LEDs produce much more light than I wanted and > having it right at eye level proved to be pretty annoying in the middle of the > night. After a little experimentation, I painted the inside of the exterior > plastic lens white, then put two layers of blue masking tape over the inner > lens that covers the LEDs. From an esthetic perspective the result is > perfect. The lens looks white when the other lights are on but gives me a > soft blue glow when they are not. However, the LEDs are now more tightly > enclosed than before, with flammable paper just a fraction of an inch away. > People say that LEDs don't produce any heat, but is that just relative to > incandescent blubs? Does this seem safe or have I created the possibility of > a dangerous situation? > > Thanks. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From jandkstone99 at msn.com Thu Jul 5 22:08:09 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:08:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED heat output In-Reply-To: <4FF62A9B.7010603@earthlink.net> References: , <4FF62A9B.7010603@earthlink.net> Message-ID: WOW! I wish I had known about that product line before I bought the hallway light. One of their products would have been perfect. I did a fair amount of surfing looking for such lights, but couldn't find anything. None of the local hardware or big box stores I checked had anything either. I only learned about the Pass and Seymour one when I stayed at a hotel with one in the bathroom (I actually removed it from the wall in the hotel to find the brand and model number) and then just happened to find it at a Menards when I was visiting my daughter in South Dakota. I am sure I will get a chance to put this new information to good use in the future and will save the links for that time. Thanks! > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:00:27 -0700 > From: bk13 at earthlink.net > To: jandkstone99 at msn.com > CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] LED heat output > > Jim - I have an older version of this: > > http://www.theenergyconscious.com/lig2210.html > (search sidelite LimeLite) > or see their store with more options at > http://store.limelite.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1817 > > > It puts off a dull green (or blue) glow that doesn't mess with night > vision like the white LEDs. They are also under $10. While they look > like a duplex cover, they are really just cover the single gang box and > extend out to the side. I got mine locally, though I don't remember where. > > If you get around to replacing the bath fan, look at one of the > Panasonic models with a light. Most of them also have a little night > light. It uses the regular 4W nightlight bulbs that you would just turn > on when needed. You will also appreciate how quiet a 0.3 sone fan is, > unless you desire cover noise. > > Brian > > On 7/4/2012 9:13 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > > With 60 just around the corner, I find my making more frequent trips to the > > bathroom at night. I figure a discussion on BPH would be way off topic, but > > surely LEDs are not. I wanted to put a nightlight in the bathroom, but > > because of the way the bathroom is designed my wife found anything plugged > > into an existing outlet to be to distracting when she was trying to sleep. > > So, I did a little electrical surgery on the fan light switches right by the > > toilet. I replaced the two existing switches with one double switch, then put > > a hard-wired hallway light into the empty space. Here is the one I used: > > http://www.techmall.com/Pass-Seymour-Decorator-Full-Hallway-Light-TMHWL-p/510 > > 47.htm > > > > So far, so good, but the the 3 LEDs produce much more light than I wanted and > > having it right at eye level proved to be pretty annoying in the middle of the > > night. After a little experimentation, I painted the inside of the exterior > > plastic lens white, then put two layers of blue masking tape over the inner > > lens that covers the LEDs. From an esthetic perspective the result is > > perfect. The lens looks white when the other lights are on but gives me a > > soft blue glow when they are not. However, the LEDs are now more tightly > > enclosed than before, with flammable paper just a fraction of an inch away. > > People say that LEDs don't produce any heat, but is that just relative to > > incandescent blubs? Does this seem safe or have I created the possibility of > > a dangerous situation? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From ronnie.day at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 18:45:09 2012 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 19:45:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling Message-ID: The first of last month we bought an '02 Suburban. A very nice one owner with116K on it. It has the late model (LS style) 5.3 in it, towing package and 3.73 gears. Last weekend we were in NE Texas, near Marshall, and I sat in a Sam's parking lot for over an hour while my wife and her sisters shopped for the reunion we were hosting. It was right at noon and the air temp was pushing 100. Water Temp on this things normally sits just below mid point (marked 210 on the OE gauge, which I think is fairly accurate). I was reading and not paying much attention until the air from the AC began to warm up. The temp gauge was then at the 3/4 mark. I moved to a clear area of the parking lot where I could drive at fairly low speed and not worry about other vehicles or shoppers. After just a few minutes of driving the temp returned to its regular spot and the AC regained its efficiency. I never saw any lose of coolant or any sign(s) of overheating. The primary purpose for buying the vehicle is travel, usually with a bunch of folks and our stuff, while possibly towing either a car or travel trailer. Should I consider looking for a heavier duty radiator for this thing, or maybe a high volume/dual electric fan setup, or both, and chunk the engine driven fan? I might even pick up a few tenths in mileage. BTW, we got just under 18 mpg going up there from home, on Hwy 79. Good secondary road with just a few small and medium towns. Thoughts/suggestions appreciated, Ron From pethier at comcast.net Fri Jul 6 19:47:42 2012 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 01:47:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> If driving got the temp down, consider the possibility that the radiator fan is not working, or now working well. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronnie Day" > To: "Shop Talk List" > Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 7:45:09 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling > The first of last month we bought an '02 Suburban. A very nice one > owner > with116K on it. It has the late model (LS style) 5.3 in it, towing > package > and 3.73 gears. Last weekend we were in NE Texas, near Marshall, and I > sat > in a Sam's parking lot for over an hour while my wife and her sisters > shopped for the reunion we were hosting. It was right at noon and the > air > temp was pushing 100. > > Water Temp on this things normally sits just below mid point (marked > 210 on > the OE gauge, which I think is fairly accurate). I was reading and not > paying much attention until the air from the AC began to warm up. The > temp > gauge was then at the 3/4 mark. I moved to a clear area of the parking > lot > where I could drive at fairly low speed and not worry about other > vehicles > or shoppers. After just a few minutes of driving the temp returned to > its > regular spot and the AC regained its efficiency. I never saw any lose > of > coolant or any sign(s) of overheating. > > The primary purpose for buying the vehicle is travel, usually with a > bunch > of folks and our stuff, while possibly towing either a car or travel > trailer. Should I consider looking for a heavier duty radiator for > this > thing, or maybe a high volume/dual electric fan setup, or both, and > chunk > the engine driven fan? I might even pick up a few tenths in mileage. > BTW, > we got just under 18 mpg going up there from home, on Hwy 79. Good > secondary road with just a few small and medium towns. > > Thoughts/suggestions appreciated, > Ron > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier at comcast.net From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri Jul 6 19:56:19 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 21:56:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5CC3362CE4CA448EAD7B09BA6BE1E2BA@EricJRussellPC> The engine driven fan - is it like the fans in olde cars & always turns when the engine is running or is it like the engine driven fans in moderns cars and has some sort of clutching system? If the latter perhaps the clutching system isn't working? My F250 diesel has the latter - I can hear the roar of the fan when it gets called to duty, otherwise is just seems to freewheel. Eric Russell Mebane, NC ----- Original Message ----- Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling > Should I consider looking for a heavier duty radiator for this > thing, or maybe a high volume/dual electric fan setup, or both, and chunk > the engine driven fan? From ronnie.day at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 19:59:41 2012 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:59:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: The fan's working fine, as best I can tell. Like I said, the air temp was pushing 100 and I sat for an hour with the engine idling before the water temp went up. This is not unusual Texas weather this time of year. I'm concerned about towing a substanial load under similar conditions, wondering if I should take preventative precautions? On Friday, July 6, 2012, wrote: > If driving got the temp down, consider the possibility that the radiator > fan is not working, or now working well. > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue > 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch > 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl > 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk > http://www.mnautox.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ronnie Day" > > > To: "Shop Talk List" > > > Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 7:45:09 PM > > Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling > > The first of last month we bought an '02 Suburban. A very nice one > > owner > > with116K on it. It has the late model (LS style) 5.3 in it, towing > > package > > and 3.73 gears. Last weekend we were in NE Texas, near Marshall, and I > > sat > > in a Sam's parking lot for over an hour while my wife and her sisters > > shopped for the reunion we were hosting. It was right at noon and the > > air > > temp was pushing 100. > > > > Water Temp on this things normally sits just below mid point (marked > > 210 on > > the OE gauge, which I think is fairly accurate). I was reading and not > > paying much attention until the air from the AC began to warm up. The > > temp > > gauge was then at the 3/4 mark. I moved to a clear area of the parking > > lot > > where I could drive at fairly low speed and not worry about other > > vehicles > > or shoppers. After just a few minutes of driving the temp returned to > > its > > regular spot and the AC regained its efficiency. I never saw any lose > > of > > coolant or any sign(s) of overheating. > > > > The primary purpose for buying the vehicle is travel, usually with a > > bunch > > of folks and our stuff, while possibly towing either a car or travel > > trailer. Should I consider looking for a heavier duty radiator for > > this > > thing, or maybe a high volume/dual electric fan setup, or both, and > > chunk > > the engine driven fan? I might even pick up a few tenths in mileage. > > BTW, > > we got just under 18 mpg going up there from home, on Hwy 79. Good > > secondary road with just a few small and medium towns. > > > > Thoughts/suggestions appreciated, > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier at comcast.net From mark at bradakis.com Fri Jul 6 21:09:07 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 21:09:07 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4FF7A853.5090808@bradakis.com> Ronnie Day wrote: > I'm > concerned about towing a substanial load under similar conditions, > wondering if I should take preventative precautions? > > Personally I imagine it wouldn't make a difference if you sat idling in a parking lot with or without a trailer. mjb. From shochschild at att.net Fri Jul 6 21:28:24 2012 From: shochschild at att.net (steve hochschild) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 22:28:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4FF7ACD8.7090006@att.net> I also live in Texas. I use WaterWetter added to my coolant. Adding an electric fan is cheap and easy. Go into your local parts store and read the box, or find their web site. How could more air not be better? I love every single thing about Texas, but it does sometimes get a little warm... On 7/6/2012 8:59 PM, Ronnie Day wrote: > The fan's working fine, as best I can tell. Like I said, the air temp was > pushing 100 and I sat for an hour with the engine idling before the water > temp went up. This is not unusual Texas weather this time of year. I'm > concerned about towing a substanial load under similar conditions, > wondering if I should take preventative precautions? > > On Friday, July 6, 2012, wrote: > >> If driving got the temp down, consider the possibility that the radiator >> fan is not working, or now working well. >> >> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA >> 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue >> 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch >> 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl >> 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red >> pethier [at] comcast [dot] net >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier >> http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk >> http://www.mnautox.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ronnie Day" > >>> To: "Shop Talk List" > >>> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 7:45:09 PM >>> Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling >>> The first of last month we bought an '02 Suburban. A very nice one >>> owner >>> with116K on it. It has the late model (LS style) 5.3 in it, towing >>> package >>> and 3.73 gears. Last weekend we were in NE Texas, near Marshall, and I >>> sat >>> in a Sam's parking lot for over an hour while my wife and her sisters >>> shopped for the reunion we were hosting. It was right at noon and the >>> air >>> temp was pushing 100. >>> >>> Water Temp on this things normally sits just below mid point (marked >>> 210 on >>> the OE gauge, which I think is fairly accurate). I was reading and not >>> paying much attention until the air from the AC began to warm up. The >>> temp >>> gauge was then at the 3/4 mark. I moved to a clear area of the parking >>> lot >>> where I could drive at fairly low speed and not worry about other >>> vehicles >>> or shoppers. After just a few minutes of driving the temp returned to >>> its >>> regular spot and the AC regained its efficiency. I never saw any lose >>> of >>> coolant or any sign(s) of overheating. >>> >>> The primary purpose for buying the vehicle is travel, usually with a >>> bunch >>> of folks and our stuff, while possibly towing either a car or travel >>> trailer. Should I consider looking for a heavier duty radiator for >>> this >>> thing, or maybe a high volume/dual electric fan setup, or both, and >>> chunk >>> the engine driven fan? I might even pick up a few tenths in mileage. >>> BTW, >>> we got just under 18 mpg going up there from home, on Hwy 79. Good >>> secondary road with just a few small and medium towns. >>> >>> Thoughts/suggestions appreciated, >>> Ron >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pethier at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From elans4 at cox.net Fri Jul 6 21:43:35 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:43:35 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <000601cd5bf2$b0513e20$10f3ba60$@net> Ronnie Day wrote: > > The fan's working fine, as best I can tell. Like I said, > the air temp was pushing 100 and I sat for an hour with > the engine idling before the water temp went up. Have you ever walked past one of those things when it was idling in the heat? I've walked past them and felt the air temperature around me go up at least 20 degrees from the heat blowing out of the engine compartment. I would suggest that possibly, after an hour of idling, you just simply got the pavement and the surrounding air extra hot and that the fan was just pulling in extra hot air. Moving slowly simply provided less hot air and pavement to allowing the cooling to function better. Of course, I could be totally wrong too... Tim Mullen From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 6 22:30:27 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 21:30:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <052401cd5bf9$3c11db80$0601a8c0@randall> > The fan's working fine, as best I can tell. So, it has a thermal clutch and you can tell that the thermal clutch locks up when it gets hot? I'm pretty sure a Suburban should have a thermal clutch and a very aggressive mechanical fan. If someone has removed the clutch (they do have a limited lifetime) and installed a standard car fan instead, the fan might appear to work fine and still not move enough air at idle. As someone already noted, the mechanical fan on my Buick wagon (with the towing package) not only makes a racket when the clutch locks up, but also sucks a noticeable amount of power. Fortunately, it practically never locks up. If you do need more cooling at idle, I would suggest adding an auxiliary electric fan, rather than replacing the stock mechanical fan. Electric fans, while neat, don't move as much air as the heavy duty mechanical setup with the clutch does. FWIW, the Buick came stock with an auxiliary electric fan. PS, in case it's not obvious from the above, it sounds as though your problem is lack of air flow. The biggest, baddest radiator in the world won't help without enough air flow. -- Randall From jem at milleredp.com Fri Jul 6 22:36:23 2012 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 21:36:23 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4FF7BCC7.8000405@milleredp.com> On 7/6/2012 6:59 PM, Ronnie Day wrote: > The fan's working fine, as best I can tell. Like I said, the air temp was > pushing 100 and I sat for an hour with the engine idling before the water > temp went up. This is not unusual Texas weather this time of year. I'm > concerned about towing a substanial load under similar conditions, > wondering if I should take preventative precautions? I suspect it's just that in still-air conditions the truck eventually 'heat-soaked' all the air it was taking in through the radiator. I've got an '03 2500 4x4 6-liter. Held out for the '03 to get the adjustable pedals (my wife's almost a foot shorter than I am.) 3.73 gears, which kill the tow rating with the 6.0 (12K with the 8.1/3.73 or 6.0/4.10, 7500 with the 6.0/3.73.) Pathetic headlights and the knockin'-and-bumpin' steering intermediate shaft that's apparently endemic to the GMT800 truck breed, but otherwise we like it quite a bit. 25K miles in the year-and-change I've owned it, various trips, towing, hauling 3000lb of brick in the back, etc. I've never seen the temp gauge do anything exciting. The AC failed at one point which proved to be a broken belt. Never seen anything approaching 19mpg in it, 16 at 65mph is about the best it'll manage, but then it weighs a fair bit more than a 1500 and it's got some slightly oversized tires and an aftermarket "cold-air" intake and a non-stock MAF on it and as a result I won't bet he didn't diddle the ECM calibration too. There was a fix for the headlights: From battmain at yahoo.com Fri Jul 6 22:57:01 2012 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 21:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1341637021.8786.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Next time it occurs and if you have time, simply raise the hood and see if it makes any difference. The folks over on fullsizechevy dot com will have some info on electric fans. Regards, Brian battmain at yahoo dot com >________________________________ > From: Ronnie Day >To: Shop Talk List >Sent: Friday, July 6, 2012 8:45 PM >Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling > >The first of last month we bought an '02 Suburban. A very nice one owner >with116K on it. It has the late model (LS style) 5.3 in it, towing package >and 3.73 gears. Last weekend we were in NE Texas, near Marshall, and I sat >in a Sam's parking lot for over an hour while my wife and her sisters >shopped for the reunion we were hosting. It was right at noon and the air >temp was pushing 100. > >Water Temp on this things normally sits just below mid point (marked 210 on >the OE gauge, which I think is fairly accurate). I was reading and not >paying much attention until the air from the AC began to warm up. The temp >gauge was then at the 3/4 mark. I moved to a clear area of the parking lot >where I could drive at fairly low speed and not worry about other vehicles >or shoppers. After just a few minutes of driving the temp returned to its >regular spot and the AC regained its efficiency. I never saw any lose of >coolant or any sign(s) of overheating. > >The primary purpose for buying the vehicle is travel, usually with a bunch >of folks and our stuff, while possibly towing either a car or travel >trailer. Should I consider looking for a heavier duty radiator for this >thing, or maybe a high volume/dual electric fan setup, or both, and chunk >the engine driven fan? I might even pick up a few tenths in mileage. BTW, >we got just under 18 mpg going up there from home, on Hwy 79. Good >secondary road with just a few small and medium towns. > >Thoughts/suggestions appreciated, >Ron >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/battmain at yahoo.com From jem at milleredp.com Sat Jul 7 00:17:46 2012 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 23:17:46 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: <4FF7BCC7.8000405@milleredp.com> References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4FF7BCC7.8000405@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <4FF7D48A.5000707@milleredp.com> > There was a fix for the headlights: Oops...found the send button a little too soon. There was a fix for the headlights: http://www.xsighting.com/gmt_800.html full Valeo OE-quality, but not sure if they're still available. The other thing it desperately needs is some kind of backup sensing, I can manage without but the spouse cannot. John. From fishplate at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 05:32:12 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 07:32:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Trucks and towing, was '02 Suburban engine cooling Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 12:36 AM, John Miller wrote: > I've got an '03 2500 4x4 6-liter. Held out for the '03 to get the > adjustable pedals (my wife's almost a foot shorter than I am.) 3.73 gears, > which kill the tow rating with the 6.0 (12K with the 8.1/3.73 or 6.0/4.10, > 7500 with the 6.0/3.73.) What a difference ten years and a raft of technology make...I just took delivery of a 2012 F150 with a 3.5 liter EcoBoost and 3.73 rear axle. Rated to tow 11,300 pounds. Dunno yet about fuel mileage. Around town, I'm managing 15.1 so far, but I can't seem to keep my foot out of it. My last truck was a 97 F150 with the 4.2 V6, so this is my first truck with power and torque. 202/252 to 365/420. You can feel the difference - that's the problem... I can't wait to haul something for the shop in it. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. (Not so corroded any more) From jniolon at att.net Sat Jul 7 06:15:15 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 07:15:15 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4FF7A853.5090808@bradakis.com> Message-ID: real world test... next time this is going to happen... park next to a trailer. another Suburban question on towing/heat. I've got the cute little dash display that tells the driver everything from oil life to seat declination angle...Although sometimes it says I have 84 pounds of air pressure in my right rear tire (THAT'S what I did with all that air, I couldn't find it anywhere) Transmission fluid ?? what's the practical upper limit ? In the current weather conditions (100 0 days)I'm seeing 180-190 with no trailer, 190-205 with a 18' car hauler empty.. probably gonna add a cooler but wondering what the range should be when towing ?? tia John >> > > Personally I imagine it wouldn't make a difference if you sat idling > in a parking lot with or without a trailer. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ From fishplate at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 07:10:26 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 09:10:26 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4FF7A853.5090808@bradakis.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 8:15 AM, John Niolon wrote: > Transmission fluid ?? what's the practical upper limit ? In the current > weather conditions (100 0 days)I'm seeing 180-190 with no trailer, 190-205 > with a 18' car hauler empty.. probably gonna add a cooler but wondering what > the range should be when towing ?? The aforementioned F150 has a gauge as well as a readout. So far, it runs about 195 F on a hot day just moving the truck. At that temperature, the needle sits comfortably in the middle of the gauge range. But it's not really a conventional automatic, as I understand it. In my dad's motor home, he would let it idle when the trans temp got over 250 F. I suspect the properties of the ATF you use would give you some insight on where you might need to ease off... Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From ronnie.day at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 10:12:58 2012 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:12:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] '02 Suburban engine cooling In-Reply-To: References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4FF7A853.5090808@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all of the suggestions, folks. I think this was primarily a hot day/heat soak issue, this time. There are a couple of simple low/no cost things I'm going to do. Flush the system throughly and add Water Wetter when I refill. If we do get into some long distance/heavy towing I'll probably replace the plastic/aluminum rad with an all metal piece from Be-Cool or Ron Davis and go with double electric fans. I've never liked or trusted these newer OE plastic tanked radiators. I would have preferred to have the 6.0 LS, but we didn't have an option in this truck, and I definitely was not going to drop $45K on a new one. Besides I like the looks of the GMT800 series much more than the newer "Tonka" style that they've all gone to. FYI, it looks like that lighting company is no longer in business. I'll get on the forum to see if there's an update. Good lighting is critical, especially when towing. The mechanic that I use here also told me that these trucks can benefit a lot from swapping the OE brake flex hoses with stainless braided replacements. Makes sense. He also said the OE PItman and idler arms wear quickly. IMO, these are pretty easy fixes, and not unusual for a truck with 116K on it. Heading to Austin for computer and camera stuff, Ron On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 8:10 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 8:15 AM, John Niolon wrote: > > Transmission fluid ?? what's the practical upper limit ? In the current > > weather conditions (100 0 days)I'm seeing 180-190 with no trailer, > 190-205 > > with a 18' car hauler empty.. probably gonna add a cooler but wondering > what > > the range should be when towing ?? > > The aforementioned F150 has a gauge as well as a readout. So far, it > runs about 195 F on a hot day just moving the truck. At that > temperature, the needle sits comfortably in the middle of the gauge > range. But it's not really a conventional automatic, as I understand > it. > > In my dad's motor home, he would let it idle when the trans temp got over > 250 F. > > I suspect the properties of the ATF you use would give you some > insight on where you might need to ease off... > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage : > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day at gmail.com From ericm at lne.com Sun Jul 8 18:39:34 2012 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 17:39:34 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Automatic transmission cooler In-Reply-To: References: <968240114.1984620.1341625662066.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4FF7A853.5090808@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4FFA2846.7030307@lne.com> I have a '02 VW Eurovan weekender. VW's stock transmission cooler is a small heat exchanger that sits on top of the trans. I put a gauge on it and see temps of 245 ever time I drive home (up a steep hill, downshifted). It seems like the high temps are a major contributor to the common failed EV transmission. As a result a lot of people have removed the stock cooler and put an oil to air cooler on. I put one one today. Trans temp was 100 on the climb to my house, and it's a hot day. That seems better for fluid life but was wondering if having the temp too low can cause any problems. It doesn't freeze here and we rarely get snow. Eric From tputland at charter.net Wed Jul 11 13:42:21 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] oil vent mess Message-ID: <1fc8903b.ff2ff.13877904bf2.Webtop.43@charter.net> Replaced the PCV vavle a few hundred miles ago. So far so good. Thanks all! tim On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Tim wrote: > I have a 71 Jeep Gladiator with less than 5000 miles on an the stock > AMC 360 V8. There is one of those small little breather filters > attached to the fill tube cap. The vapors coming out of this filter > are coating the inside of the engine compartment. > > Because I am still learning and have not yet learned about this type > of situation, what can I do about this please? > > Thanks! > tim > ______________ From jamesf at groupwbench.org Wed Jul 11 20:59:55 2012 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 22:59:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up Message-ID: The portable (and probably cheap) Maytag unit that came with the house worked for a few months and now just makes the basement warm. Oddly, this wasn't a problem in the winter when the basement was colder. It's not 75 down there. The Internet says I can recharge it myself (!!) or throw it away. What does shop-talk say? thanks, From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Jul 11 23:22:50 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 22:22:50 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b7501cd5fee$61c9e950$0601a8c0@randall> > The Internet says I can recharge it myself (!!) or throw it > away. What does > shop-talk say? More trouble than it's worth, unless you already have the equipment and the know-how. Even then it's iffy if it uses R-12. I'd suggest it might be an electrical problem, but that's not likely if it is making the basement warm. -- Randall From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Jul 11 23:45:40 2012 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 01:45:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FFE6484.7080600@xxiii.com> I'm good with the mechanical and electrical side of HVAC and refrigeration, but only superficial on the actual refrigerant loop part. But from what I know the evaporator "freeze up" is usually low charge or restricted air flow. Might pull the cover off and see if the coil or other pathways are choked up with dust or mold. If it really is down on refrigerant, much as I hate our society's current "disposable mentality", it's pretty much a throw-away. -Wayne On 7/11/2012 10:59 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > The portable (and probably cheap) Maytag unit that came with the house worked > for a few months and now just makes the basement warm. Oddly, this wasn't a > problem in the winter when the basement was colder. It's not 75 down there. > > The Internet says I can recharge it myself (!!) or throw it away. What does > shop-talk say? From tputland at charter.net Thu Jul 12 05:07:12 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 07:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up Message-ID: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net> Please reply to the list everyone. I have a unit that does this as well. I'd rather not toss this older one as the new "digital" unit I bought runs for two hours then sits for two hours--this is the best setting as the other option is run for two sit for four I think. I prefer the older one that as it has a humistat dial setting that will run until it hits the setting and shut off. I'd be interested in know how to recharge this old unit for sure. Thanks! tim On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > The portable (and probably cheap) Maytag unit that came with the house > worked > for a few months and now just makes the basement warm. Oddly, this > wasn't a > problem in the winter when the basement was colder. It's not 75 down > there. > > The Internet says I can recharge it myself (!!) or throw it away. What > does > shop-talk say? > > thanks, > _______________________________________________ From jamesf at groupwbench.org Thu Jul 12 11:47:25 2012 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:47:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <4FFE5546.5080206@earthlink.net> References: <4FFE5546.5080206@earthlink.net> Message-ID: > Jim - Check airflow. Is the filter clogged? Did you put a box next to it that reduces air circulation? After you turn it off for a while and let all the ice melt, does air blow out when you restart it? It should move a noticeable amount of air. Those aspects are fine, freezes in minutes even when I remove the filter. Great airflow, no clogging, no obvious blockage, though for grins I'll try to check the hot coils which are on a fine mesh of radiating grills behind the cold ones and hard to get to. > > I ended up buying a new unit that was much quieter, more energy efficient, and greater capacity. It was well worth the $150 I paid at costco.com about 10 years ago. If you buy a replacement, pay attention to look for one rated for basements. The ones that are not basement rated have a greater potential to freeze in cooler temperatures. Good to know, thanks! From jamesf at groupwbench.org Thu Jul 12 12:18:53 2012 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:18:53 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <4FFE5546.5080206@earthlink.net> References: <4FFE5546.5080206@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3AC9B430-B522-4320-AC3A-FF2D081C880D@groupwbench.org> The fins look clear, but I found a sensor, housed in a metal clip, that had rusted free from its location. The wire is long enough, and there's a rust spot, such that it looks like it should sense temp of the cold coils. In this bad picture, the clip is on the black sheathed wire, and the air flows left to right: http://groupwbench.org/dehumidifier.jpg From cavanadd at frontier.com Thu Jul 12 16:22:57 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:22:57 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] T8 and T12 Message-ID: <4FFF4E41.5040308@frontier.com> OK, this may be old news to a lot of you, but I just found out it's fairly easy to retrofit a 2 lamp T12 fixture to T8 lamps. All you need is a new electronic ballast. As I found out (below) this will work with either a T8 or a T12 electronic ballast. At least it will with Phillips/Advance ballasts. First of all, it's probably not worth the effort and expense to retrofit a bunch of old shoplight fixtures that have magnetic ballasts. You would be time and money ahead to just replace the whole fixture. However, in my utility room I have two 48" T12 fixtures that are about 12 years old, and I didn't want to go to the hassle of pulling them down and replacing them with new fixtures. I already did that in the master walk in closet before I found out about this. Anyway, a while back the ballast in one utility room fixture went out. I replaced it with a T12 electronic ballast from H.D. and put the regular T12 lamps back in. Installation was normal; the new ballast had all the same wires as the old one. (Apparently magnetic ballasts are no longer available, which is probably a good thing.) A few days ago I read on another forum that ANY electronic ballast will usually drive T8 lamps (as long as it's for the same number of lamps). So today I got two T8 ballasts (one for a spare) and four T8 lamps. In the fixture that had the "new" electronic ballast, I just put two T8 lamps in and it fired right up. I took the other fixture apart and removed the ballast, and unwrapped the new T8 ballast. It's a little different- it only has half the wires as a T12 ballast. Where the T12 ballast had two yellow leads to one end, and two blue and two red to the other end, the T8 has two blue and one red. No yellow. After studying the wiring diagram on the ballast, I figured you attach the one red lead to the two yellow (fixture) leads on one end, and then one each of the blue leads goes to two red and two blue leads on the other end of the fixture. So now I have lots of light in the utility room, new ballasts, and, I hope, a happier wife. Plus I can take the extra ballasts back to H.D. and put about $18 back in my wallet. I just wish I had known this trick before I spent an hour taking the old fixture down and putting a new one up in the closet. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jul 12 14:44:27 2012 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:44:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> My experience has been that, by the time an appliance like this is so low on Freon that people notice, the compressor is worn out from running continuously without enough lubrication. In addition, you are probably going to want to change refrigerant types (you can't buy R12 or R22 without a license and you wouldn't be asking here if you had the license :) And the system most likely will not have service fittings. So now you are stuck cutting open the system, replacing the compressor and the orifice, plus (probably) a drier, and adding a pair of service fittings. Then you'll need your manifold and gauge set, plus a good vacuum pump, to evacuate the system and charge it with the appropriate amount of refrigerant and (possibly) oil. We'll assume for the sake of simplicity that there isn't any Freon left in the system, since otherwise you will also need a recovery system (and a license). I didn't try pricing a small replacement compressor, but they tend to cost nearly as much or even more than the original unit, because so many people have taken a markup (and replacements are frequently better quality than the originals). And you're talking probably $500 worth of tools on top of the compressor, orifice, drier, fittings, etc. Or, for under $250, you can just buy a new dehumidifier. This one seems like it answers your complaint: http://goo.gl/I2Un0 If I read the ad copy correctly, it will run continuously until either the air reaches the set humidity level, or the bucket is full. And you can plumb it to a drain (or sump pump) so you don't have to worry about the bucket being full. (Amazon has the same unit for less with free shipping.) -- Randall From doug at dougbraun.com Sat Jul 14 12:22:32 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:22:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> References: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net> <013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> Message-ID: I bought a well-reviewed, efficient dehumidifier a couple of years ago. It works fine in my basement storage area, except for one very annoying problem: If the AC power goes off for even a moment, it resets to the "off" state. This means that I can't go away on vacation and assume it will keep working the entire time. Check for this issue on anything you might plan to buy. Of course, the old-fashioned ones with a mechanical humistat control don't suffer from this problem. Doug On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Randall wrote: > > Or, for under $250, you can just buy a new dehumidifier. This one seems > like it answers your complaint: > http://goo.gl/I2Un0 > > If I read the ad copy correctly, it will run continuously until either the > air reaches the set humidity level, or the bucket is full. And you can > plumb it to a drain (or sump pump) so you don't have to worry about the > bucket being full. (Amazon has the same unit for less with free shipping.) From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Jul 14 14:29:18 2012 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 16:29:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> References: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net> <013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> Message-ID: Thanks Randall. I figured it was shot given it beat the crap out of itself iced up for 5 weeks while I was away, but where does the freon *go*? Small leaks too expensive to fix at manufacturing? I have the best though temporary solution right now, borrowed one from a friend. :-) jim On Jul 12, 2012, at 4:44 PM, Randall wrote: > My experience has been that, by the time an appliance like this is so low on > Freon that people notice, the compressor is worn out from running > continuously without enough lubrication. In addition, you are probably > going to want to change refrigerant types (you can't buy R12 or R22 without > a license and you wouldn't be asking here if you had the license :) And the > system most likely will not have service fittings. > > So now you are stuck cutting open the system, replacing the compressor and > the orifice, plus (probably) a drier, and adding a pair of service fittings. > Then you'll need your manifold and gauge set, plus a good vacuum pump, to > evacuate the system and charge it with the appropriate amount of refrigerant > and (possibly) oil. We'll assume for the sake of simplicity that there > isn't any Freon left in the system, since otherwise you will also need a > recovery system (and a license). > > I didn't try pricing a small replacement compressor, but they tend to cost > nearly as much or even more than the original unit, because so many people > have taken a markup (and replacements are frequently better quality than the > originals). And you're talking probably $500 worth of tools on top of the > compressor, orifice, drier, fittings, etc. > > Or, for under $250, you can just buy a new dehumidifier. This one seems > like it answers your complaint: > http://goo.gl/I2Un0 > > If I read the ad copy correctly, it will run continuously until either the > air reaches the set humidity level, or the bucket is full. And you can > plumb it to a drain (or sump pump) so you don't have to worry about the > bucket being full. (Amazon has the same unit for less with free shipping.) > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org From tputland at charter.net Sat Jul 14 15:52:11 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up Message-ID: <1a99743f.123cc8.138877a3e3f.Webtop.48@charter.net> Thusly spake Doug: "Of course, the old-fashioned ones with a mechanical humistat control don't suffer from this problem." Yet another reason I want to get my slightly older one fixed. tim On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > I bought a well-reviewed, efficient dehumidifier a couple of years > ago. It > works fine in my basement storage area, except for one very annoying > problem: If the AC power goes off for even a moment, it resets to the > "off" state. This means that I can't go away on vacation and assume > it > will keep working the entire time. Check for this issue on anything > you > might plan to buy. Of course, the old-fashioned ones with a > mechanical > humistat control don't suffer from this problem. > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Randall wrote: > >> >> Or, for under $250, you can just buy a new dehumidifier. This one >> seems >> like it answers your complaint: >> http://goo.gl/I2Un0 >> >> If I read the ad copy correctly, it will run continuously until >> either the >> air reaches the set humidity level, or the bucket is full. And you >> can >> plumb it to a drain (or sump pump) so you don't have to worry about >> the >> bucket being full. (Amazon has the same unit for less with free >> shipping.) > _______________________________________________ From jniolon at att.net Sat Jul 14 16:57:42 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 17:57:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler Message-ID: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> finally got my car hauler... 18' Anderson with two axle brakes, rear slide in ramps, removable fender, 2' dovetail... want to start accumulating what I need to haul my '53 f-100 truck. Truck is 16' long nose to tail and will weigh in around 3800-4000. the trailer has 4 tie downs welded in , one at each corner and side board anchors along each side, no rub rail. wondering the best type of tie down to use with the truck... I like ther wheel basket straps on each wheel.. seems it would secure it well but not pull down the suspension... which may or may not affect towing ??? axle straps and ratchet binders hold well but are a pain to install, right ?? how about e-track ??? suggestions please from you car/truck towing gurus thanks John you guys always have the best info ! I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? From elans4 at cox.net Sat Jul 14 18:31:54 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 20:31:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: References: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net> <013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> Message-ID: <000901cd6221$3c223510$b4669f30$@net> Jim Franklin wrote: > > but where does the freon *go*? Small leaks too > expensive to fix at manufacturing? Actually, it shouldn't leak anywhere unless there is a major problem. A car's AC leaks Freon because it "soaks" thru the hoses and seals. Things like refrigerators and de-humidifiers shouldn't have any hoses or seals. The compressors are sealed inside the system - electric motor is inside the case of the compressor, on a car, a shaft sticks out of the compressor so a pulley/belt can power the compressor - the Freon can leak out the seal. Cars have to have hoses to allow for the movement of the motor relative to the "chassis" - Fixed appliances don't need these hoses. Consequently, home appliances are usually sealed systems with metal tubing and nowhere for the Freon to leak out of unless something corrodes a hole through the plumbing. If you have lost the function of a home appliance, you probably have a major corrosion problem that corroded through from the outside of the pipes, and it is not going to be easy or cheap to repair. By the way, home appliances don't have fittings to fill with Freon. They are filled at the factory, and crimped and/or soldered shut. No place for them to leak out, no place to add more Freon. At least that has been my experience with them. As for getting "licensed" to buy R12 Freon, it's relatively easy (at least it was). I needed some Freon to fill up a car that had lost its charge. I took an on-line course and passed the test (easy to do) and became certified (cost around $25). Then I bought a large tank of R-12 on-line (they actually didn't even ask for my certification info). I got myself certified because it was actually cheaper to repair it myself than to let a shop do it. I bought the scale, the vacuum pump, leak detector, etc. on line and a large tank of R-12 for less than what the shop wanted. It turned out that the shop was wrong about where the leak was - they were going to charge me $600 to replace the condenser and $125 to charge the system. At which point they would have found out that the pressure switch was actually the source of the leak (the condenser was just fine), replaced that and charged me another $125 to re-charge the system again. I bought all the equipment I needed for less than $500 and a tank of R-12 for around $250 (I have enough left for many, many more cars). Most of the equipment can also be used on R-134 systems also (done that too). I put in a small amount of Freon, traced the leak with the leak detector, and replaced the pressure switch. I then pulled the vacuum (instead of checking that it held vacuum for a few minutes, I left it pulling vacuum for hours, and sealed it up over night to make sure there was absolutely no leaks), and filled up the system with the proper amount of R-12. It's been working just fine now for several years without need for a top-off. I don't have a recovery system, but you don't legally need that unless you are doing other people's cars, and you have to remove the Freon from the car - a system that has already leaked down has nothing to recover. Of course, check all the latest rules because they keep changing them... Tim Mullen From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sat Jul 14 20:20:18 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 21:20:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap Message-ID: My brother has a 2004 Volvo S80 with 60,000 miles on it. It was in excellent condition until the timing belt broke and trashed the engine. At least I assume the engine was trashed. He had the timing belt replaced on the off chance that no damage was done, but that didn't do the trick. Volvo has offered to cut him a deal on a new car, but they don't seem to want the old one at all. I have no idea what it is worth with a bad engine, but I don't think he is going to get very much for it. Which brings this email to me. I am thinking about buying it and putting a used engine in. However, my experience under the hood on modern cars is next to nil. I have had Alpine engines in and out many times, but am always intimidated when I look under the hood of a modern car. Assuming I gave my brother a grand for the car (his mechanic suggested that might be a fair value) and bought a used engine for $2500, I'd have a car worth considerably more. My daughter is currently driving a 1996 Accord with almost 140,000 miles; this would be a hell of an upgrade if it was feasible. How hard is this? Am I crazy to even think about it? Thanks. From eric at megageek.com Sat Jul 14 20:23:57 2012 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 22:23:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container Message-ID: OK, I'm sure these things have lots of names, but I call them a "sea container." The big shipping containers that they use to move from ship to train to truck. (basically, they are the box container that all the shipped items are loaded and stored in.) OK, I have one of these as an additional shed on my property. (I really didn't need it, but I got it for free.) Here is what I want to do. I want to add a ladder to the side so I can climb up top. I want the ladder secured to the side of the container. Here is the problem, the container has a sticker on it that says to only repair it with "corian" steel. I have no idea what this is. My question is... Do I really need to worry about this? Can I weld to it just like any steel, or is there a reason that sticker is there. (I'm sure that if the container was still used for shipping, it would apply, but for a container that is going to sit in a yard?) Can I weld to it? Is there anything I need to know about it? (I didn't want to screw to the side of this container because I want it to stay water tight.) Thanks again! Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From tvacc at lotusowners.com Sat Jul 14 21:07:14 2012 From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 23:07:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: <020d01cd6236$ef47d270$cdd77750$@lotusowners.com> For years I used straps around the axle, straps around the frame and straps through the tires. The last trailer I bought had E Track installed. Was set up for a specific car so I had to buy more. Was not expensive. I now use the straps that go over the tires, tie down to the E Track right before and after the tires and you ratchet the straps over the tires. Compresses the tires. As long as you don't have any leaks in your tires, works great. And is the least damaging to everything. Suspension rides normal. No frame bending. Etc.... Lots of places sell it. Tony Vaccaro Lotus Owners of NY (LOONY) www.lotusowners.com 716-861-1412 -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Niolon Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:58 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler finally got my car hauler... 18' Anderson with two axle brakes, rear slide in ramps, removable fender, 2' dovetail... want to start accumulating what I need to haul my '53 f-100 truck. Truck is 16' long nose to tail and will weigh in around 3800-4000. the trailer has 4 tie downs welded in , one at each corner and side board anchors along each side, no rub rail. wondering the best type of tie down to use with the truck... I like ther wheel basket straps on each wheel.. seems it would secure it well but not pull down the suspension... which may or may not affect towing ??? axle straps and ratchet binders hold well but are a pain to install, right ?? how about e-track ??? suggestions please from you car/truck towing gurus thanks John you guys always have the best info ! I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com From strovato at optonline.net Sat Jul 14 22:31:59 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 00:31:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: <0M7600F5AQ2DVFV0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I tow my 1955 MG Magnette using axle straps and ratcheting tiedown straps. By using the rear axle and the lower control arms, the body is free to move up and down on the car's suspension. I think that's better. If the car is tied down from the frame, then a big bump might still compress the suspension, but then it's going to come back up and slam against the straps. Doesn't sound like a great idea to me. As for installing them, yes it is a pain. I have to be careful to avoid brake lines and parking brake cables on the rear axle. In your case, it might be less difficult if the truck is relatively high off the ground. I have considered the wheel basket straps and I might still go that way some day. It will require some additional anchor points, though. I am looking forward to hearing other peoples suggestions. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 06:57 PM 7/14/2012, John Niolon wrote: >finally got my car hauler... 18' Anderson with two axle brakes, rear slide in >ramps, removable fender, 2' dovetail... > >want to start accumulating what I need to haul my '53 f-100 truck. Truck is >16' long nose to tail and will weigh in around 3800-4000. > >the trailer has 4 tie downs welded in , one at each corner and side board >anchors along each side, no rub rail. wondering the best type of tie down to >use with the truck... I like ther wheel basket straps on each wheel.. seems >it would secure it well but not pull down the suspension... which may or may >not affect towing ??? > >axle straps and ratchet binders hold well but are a pain to install, right ?? > >how about e-track ??? > >suggestions please from you car/truck towing gurus > >thanks >John > >you guys always have the best info ! > > > > > >I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com Sun Jul 15 00:28:13 2012 From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 02:28:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CBDFFB6-829C-4C76-B5AD-D0CAC17AC256@trebelhorn.com> I think that should be cor-ten steel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_container My tiny amount of research gives the impression that it can be welded normally, but that there are special welding rods to use if you need to maintain the corrosion resistance (ie welding a boat hull). Matt On 14 Jul, 2012, at 10:23 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, I'm sure these things have lots of names, but I call them a "sea > container." The big shipping containers that they use to move from > ship > to train to truck. (basically, they are the box container that all > the > shipped items are loaded and stored in.) > > OK, I have one of these as an additional shed on my property. (I > really > didn't need it, but I got it for free.) Here is what I want to do. I > want to add a ladder to the side so I can climb up top. I want the > ladder > secured to the side of the container. > > Here is the problem, the container has a sticker on it that says to > only > repair it with "corian" steel. I have no idea what this is. > > My question is... > > Do I really need to worry about this? Can I weld to it just like any > steel, or is there a reason that sticker is there. (I'm sure that > if the > container was still used for shipping, it would apply, but for a > container > that is going to sit in a yard?) > > Can I weld to it? > > Is there anything I need to know about it? > > (I didn't want to screw to the side of this container because I > want it to > stay water tight.) > > Thanks again! > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a > rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ > matt.lists at trebelhorn.com From racertod at racertodd.com Sun Jul 15 00:38:09 2012 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 23:38:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20120714232721.00bea548@mail.avvanta.com> Eric wrote: >Here is the problem, the container has a sticker on it that says to only >repair it with "corian" steel. I have no idea what this is. The sticker is probably scratched up and it used to say "Cor-Ten" steel. Cor-Ten is a trademark of United States Steel for a type of "weathering steel" and is used for shipping containers and other steel items that'll be used outdoors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel Looks like you need the correct wire/electrodes. Your local welding store can probably guide you to the correct stuff to use. Found this about welding on Cor-Ten steel: Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 275,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 353,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 15 02:33:56 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 01:33:56 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0f0201cd6264$93c0cc30$0601a8c0@randall> > Here is the problem, the container has a sticker on it that > says to only > repair it with "corian" steel. I have no idea what this is. Me neither. But after some Googling around, I think maybe it says "corten" steel instead. http://goo.gl/qIzov Looks like maybe it's OK to weld with mild steel rod, but you will lose the "self-weathering" characteristic. The result will rust unless you keep it painted. All just a WAG, though. YMMV -- Randall From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 15 03:36:00 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 02:36:00 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <000901cd6221$3c223510$b4669f30$@net> References: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net><013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> <000901cd6221$3c223510$b4669f30$@net> Message-ID: <0f0701cd626d$3eed5170$0601a8c0@randall> > a system that has already leaked down has nothing to recover. Not if it can still frost part of the condenser. > Of course, check all the latest rules because they keep > changing them... Good idea. Here are the rules for stationary AC systems (which are different than the rules for cars): http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/608fact.html The chances of getting caught are much lower working for yourself, but I don't see anything that makes it legal. -- Randall From fishplate at gmail.com Sun Jul 15 05:59:00 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:59:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > My brother has a 2004 Volvo S80 with 60,000 miles on it. If it's like my 2001 V70, the timing belt should last 105,000 miles. Is that the basis for cutting a deal? > Which brings this email to me. I am thinking about buying it and putting a > used engine in. [snip] Am I crazy to even think about it? I think there are some year-to-year differences that would make it very important to find an exact replacement. I would think, given the value and longevity of Volvos in general, that a used engine might be hard to find. But, if you had one to hand, I don't think there's anything too complicated about changing it. You might invest in the Haynes manual for that car to see what's involved in the way of special tools and equipment. Or, you could use the money to buy an old 240 and stick a 5 liter Ford V8 in it... Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From jniolon at att.net Sun Jul 15 06:03:34 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:03:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container References: Message-ID: Eric... so far everyone gets the prize... Corten is a product of my old company, USS. It's made to weather to a nice rust color and that finish protects the metal. We use the "conex" boxes for construction site tool rooms and routinely weld inside them for shelves and hangers and light supports.. it will change the properties so the metal will rust in the HAZ of the weld, but paint will fix it... AFA the ladder and roof access.... the boxes have no roof support and seem to be the same material as the walls.... be careful what you put up there ..they will sag and leak.. Build a deck over it if you're looking for a deer stand. Also the metal isn't very thick and you can blow thru it welding if you're running too hot. The only thng I hate is the latching mechanism... pia to deal with several times a day and it will get harder as it ages... lots of oil or grease to keep it smooth in operation. Free was good ! the 20' sell for around 2800 around here and the 40' is around 4500-5000 depending on condition john ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:23 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container > OK, I'm sure these things have lots of names, but I call them a "sea > container." The big shipping containers that they use to move from ship > to train to truck. (basically, they are the box container that all the > shipped items are loaded and stored in.) > > OK, I have one of these as an additional shed on my property. (I really > didn't need it, but I got it for free.) Here is what I want to do. I > want to add a ladder to the side so I can climb up top. I want the ladder > secured to the side of the container. > > Here is the problem, the container has a sticker on it that says to only > repair it with "corian" steel. I have no idea what this is. > > My question is... > > Do I really need to worry about this? Can I weld to it just like any > steel, or is there a reason that sticker is there. (I'm sure that if the > container was still used for shipping, it would apply, but for a container > that is going to sit in a yard?) > > Can I weld to it? > > Is there anything I need to know about it? > > (I didn't want to screw to the side of this container because I want it to > stay water tight.) > > Thanks again! > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net From jblair1948 at cox.net Sun Jul 15 06:23:30 2012 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:23:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20120715082007.04c78c30@cox.net> At 10:23 PM 7/14/2012, eric at megageek.com wrote: >...I have one of these as an additional shed on my property. (I really didn't need it, but I got it for free.) >Here is what I want to do. I want to add a ladder to the side so I can climb up top. I want the ladder secured >to the side of the container. Eric, I understand wanting to weld to it, but if that is going to mess up the weather resistance, why not bolt the ladder to it? You could make stainless steel bolts, washers and nuts, and make/use some rubber washers between the washers and the container. You could also try something like RTV at the penitration point. That should make it water tight. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sun Jul 15 09:02:18 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 10:02:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thanks guys. That is encouraging. And the advice to get an exact replacement is very important, as I had previously been looking at interchange engines. I will pick up a manual or buy online access through Alldata. The possibility that this might just be the head is an interesting one that was raised by my brother's mechanic (who is not the dealer, BTW). The mechanic (who has handled basic maintenance for him, but I don't think filled him with confidence over working on the engine) also said it could be the head, but indicated there would be no guarantees that rebuilding the head would result in a running car. I would pull the head and inspect it before pulling the entire engine, but can anyone give me a sense of the likelihood of it only being the head/valves? I was under the impression that a broken timing belt was likely to trash the entire engine. If the odds are that rebuilding/replacing the head is enough, then I would want my brother to know that before dumping the car cheaply, even if I was going to be the beneficiary of that dumping. Thanks again. > Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 07:59:00 -0400 > From: fishplate at gmail.com > To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap > > On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > > My brother has a 2004 Volvo S80 with 60,000 miles on it. > > If it's like my 2001 V70, the timing belt should last 105,000 miles. > Is that the basis for cutting a deal? > > > Which brings this email to me. I am thinking about buying it and putting a > > used engine in. [snip] Am I crazy to even think about it? > > I think there are some year-to-year differences that would make it > very important to find an exact replacement. I would think, given the > value and longevity of Volvos in general, that a used engine might be > hard to find. But, if you had one to hand, I don't think there's > anything too complicated about changing it. You might invest in the > Haynes manual for that car to see what's involved in the way of > special tools and equipment. > > Or, you could use the money to buy an old 240 and stick a 5 liter Ford > V8 in it... > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From dhlocker at comcast.net Sun Jul 15 09:04:15 2012 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 15:04:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1387153243.2073035.1342364655249.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Epoxy ladder pads to the wall instead of welding? I'm with the others that it is probably Cor-Ten steel. (I'm wanting to use a few of these to make some shop space - woodworking shop, metal fab shop, foundry, electronics, forge, Spitfire shop. First I gotta get something more than a little urban lot and house.) Donald. -- *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ ascii ribbon campaign - ----- Original Message ----- > From: eric at megageek.com > To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 10:23:57 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container > > OK, I'm sure these things have lots of names, but I call them a "sea > container." The big shipping containers that they use to move from ship > to train to truck. (basically, they are the box container that all the > shipped items are loaded and stored in.) > > OK, I have one of these as an additional shed on my property. (I really > didn't need it, but I got it for free.) Here is what I want to do. I > want to add a ladder to the side so I can climb up top. I want the ladder > secured to the side of the container. > > Here is the problem, the container has a sticker on it that says to only > repair it with "corian" steel. I have no idea what this is. > > My question is... > > Do I really need to worry about this? Can I weld to it just like any > steel, or is there a reason that sticker is there. (I'm sure that if the > container was still used for shipping, it would apply, but for a container > that is going to sit in a yard?) > > Can I weld to it? > > Is there anything I need to know about it? > > (I didn't want to screw to the side of this container because I want it to > stay water tight.) > > Thanks again! From elans4 at cox.net Sun Jul 15 09:09:06 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 11:09:06 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <0f0701cd626d$3eed5170$0601a8c0@randall> References: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net><013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> <000901cd6221$3c223510$b4669f30$@net> <0f0701cd626d$3eed5170$0601a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <005701cd629b$c787c870$56975950$@net> Randall wrote: > >> a system that has already leaked down has nothing to recover. > > Not if it can still frost part of the condenser. If it can still frost the condenser, then it is holding a charge. No seals or hoses to leak, so the charge is still in there. Only a hole is going to cause a leak and then it all leaks so there is nothing to recover. The problem is elsewhere. > The chances of getting caught are much lower working for > yourself, but I don't see anything that makes it legal. It's illegal to vent a charged system. But a system that has leaked everything out has nothing to vent or recycle. Repairing that does not require recycling equipment. Again, I suspect that the problem with the dehumidifier is other than the Freon system. A bad thermostat, dirty fins on the condenser, etc. Tim Mullen From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 15 09:57:46 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:57:46 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <005701cd629b$c787c870$56975950$@net> References: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net><013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com> <000901cd6221$3c223510$b4669f30$@net> <0f0701cd626d$3eed5170$0601a8c0@randall> <005701cd629b$c787c870$56975950$@net> Message-ID: <0f4601cd62a2$93dfbcb0$0601a8c0@randall> > If it can still frost the condenser, then it is holding a > charge. No seals > or hoses to leak, so the charge is still in there. I disagree. I've seen (and owned) several appliances that took 5 years or more to leak down far enough that they no longer worked properly. They still had some liquid Freon inside, just not enough to work properly. Typically, the first 1/4 or so of the condenser would frost and eventually freeze solid, while the rest was just cool. Usually (before it was illegal to do so), I just threw them away; but back in college I had a refrigerator that I just added gas to every couple of years. (The added service valves leaked a bit too, so it needed attention more often than it had the first time.) And even when it has leaked down to where there is no liquid left, that is still gaseous Freon inside, not air (and therefore illegal to vent). The requirement is that your recovery equipment pull a vacuum unless the leak is so big that you can't. -- Randall From mbarre at juno.com Sun Jul 15 10:41:30 2012 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 16:41:30 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up Message-ID: <20120715.124130.22010.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> Doug wrote:... If the AC power goes off for even a moment, it resets to the "off" state. This means that I can't go away on vacation and assume it will keep working the entire time. Would a small UPS solve that? One of the inexpensive APS ones that are often used for computers - Mine don't really provide much use of the computer, but rather allow a controlled shutdown rather than just a blink off. I realize it wouldn't run the compressor for very long at all, but maybe to catch the the momentary power glitches? Matt From mbarre at juno.com Sun Jul 15 11:28:47 2012 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 17:28:47 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container Message-ID: <20120715.132847.15263.1@webmail04.vgs.untd.com> We import so much stuff from overseas, these containers are becoming a common building material around here.I have marveled at some of the adhoc engineering I have seen. Very common around here in the woods to find shopsassembled out of several of these with some manner of roof over a few of them. There was a viral email going around where someone had constructed a quite nice abode out of a few. It was half buried and well insulated with spray foam. I saw an elaborate firefighting training tower recently (near some airport I flew into, can't recall where) but I bet it wasmuch cheaper using the containers than building from scratch. Weld it up, paint it, it will be fine. Matt eric at megageek.com wrote: Here is what I want to do. I want to add a ladder to the side so I can climb up top. I want the ladder secured to the side of the container. From fishplate at gmail.com Sun Jul 15 12:34:42 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 14:34:42 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > I was under the impression that a broken > timing belt was likely to trash the entire engine. My only real experience with this is in Volkswagen OHC engines back in the day. I seem to recall that at least one car we saw had hit hard enough for the valves to break the camshaft in several pieces, but only left some half-moon shaped dents in the pistons. It was difficult to evaluate what damage might have been done -- There is the risk of one or more cracked pistons or bent rods, which would not necessarily be obvious. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 15 12:57:40 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 11:57:40 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <0f4601cd62a2$93dfbcb0$0601a8c0@randall> References: <73a4548c.105d31.1387adf0644.Webtop.48@charter.net><013b01cd606f$2179f710$646de530$@rr.com><000901cd6221$3c223510$b4669f30$@net><0f0701cd626d$3eed5170$0601a8c0@randall><005701cd629b$c787c870$56975950$@net> <0f4601cd62a2$93dfbcb0$0601a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <0f9501cd62bb$b5a55490$0601a8c0@randall> > Typically, the first 1/4 or so of the condenser would frost D'oh! I meant evaporator, of course. -- Randall From cavanadd at frontier.com Sun Jul 15 12:58:54 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 11:58:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modifying a sea-container In-Reply-To: <0f0201cd6264$93c0cc30$0601a8c0@randall> References: <0f0201cd6264$93c0cc30$0601a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <500312EE.7030101@frontier.com> Wire brush the weld then put some cold galv on it and don't worry about it. I just cleared a space behind my shop and was thinking of getting a 20' container to put back there for storage until I started checking on prices. I can build a shed for way less. Randall wrote: > Looks like maybe it's OK to weld with mild steel rod, but you will lose the > "self-weathering" characteristic. The result will rust unless you keep it > painted. From hillman at planet-torque.com Sun Jul 15 14:20:36 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 16:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Jul 2012, John Niolon wrote: > the trailer has 4 tie downs welded in , one at each corner and side board > anchors along each side, no rub rail. wondering the best type of tie down to > use with the truck... I like ther wheel basket straps on each wheel.. seems > it would secure it well but not pull down the suspension... which may or may > not affect towing ??? I know a lot of people prefer tieing down by the wheels, but I have never liked the idea of a ton plus of vehicle suspended and moving around on my trailer, in an emergency. Everything I tow, mainly my 2000 pound racecar and occasionally heavier ones for friends, gets strapped down by the tow-hooks on the car, tight, whenever possible. A 3-series BMW I've moved a few times does not have attachment points on the chassis, so tieing to the wheels is the only option, and you can feel the difference. Last winter, I had to make an emergency lane change under hard braking at the crest of a rise, due to an incredibly stupid cabbie on the Tollway, and the trailer stayed right where it was supposed to be, behind my truck. Now, maybe that would've happened anyway, but this seems safest to me. Maybe it'll eventually wear out my shocks, but they have about 350,000 miles on 'em now and dozens of tie-downs, so I'm okay with that. Shocks, even expensive ones, are far cheaper than the potential expense of crashing into a stopped cab, a conversion van, and a 3rd vehicle on the shoulder. YMMV. As as aside, if you are looking for straps, this company in Ohio makes very high quality pieces ( in Ohio, not China ). I bought a set a couple years ago, and have been very pleased. http://www.lodimetals.com/car-tie-downs -- David Hillman From strovato at optonline.net Sun Jul 15 16:30:10 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 18:30:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <020d01cd6236$ef47d270$cdd77750$@lotusowners.com> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <020d01cd6236$ef47d270$cdd77750$@lotusowners.com> Message-ID: <0M7800I913ZBLGG0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Tony, How did you attach the E-track to the trailer deck? What is your deck made of? Mine is diamond plate steel. At etrailer.com I saw a video where they were installing it on wood trailer walls, but I think our application is a bit more critical. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 11:07 PM 7/14/2012, Tony Vaccaro wrote: >For years I used straps around the axle, straps around the frame and straps >through the tires. > >The last trailer I bought had E Track installed. Was set up for a specific >car so I had to buy more. Was not expensive. > >I now use the straps that go over the tires, tie down to the E Track right >before and after the tires and you ratchet the straps over the tires. >Compresses the tires. > >As long as you don't have any leaks in your tires, works great. And is the >least damaging to everything. Suspension rides normal. No frame bending. >Etc.... > >Lots of places sell it. > >Tony Vaccaro >Lotus Owners of NY (LOONY) >www.lotusowners.com >716-861-1412 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net >[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Niolon >Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:58 PM >To: shop-talk >Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler > >finally got my car hauler... 18' Anderson with two axle brakes, rear slide >in ramps, removable fender, 2' dovetail... > >want to start accumulating what I need to haul my '53 f-100 truck. Truck >is >16' long nose to tail and will weigh in around 3800-4000. > >the trailer has 4 tie downs welded in , one at each corner and side board >anchors along each side, no rub rail. wondering the best type of tie down >to use with the truck... I like ther wheel basket straps on each wheel.. >seems it would secure it well but not pull down the suspension... which may >or may not affect towing ??? > >axle straps and ratchet binders hold well but are a pain to install, right >?? > >how about e-track ??? > >suggestions please from you car/truck towing gurus > >thanks >John > >you guys always have the best info ! > > > > > >I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net From strovato at optonline.net Sun Jul 15 17:32:42 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 19:32:42 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler Message-ID: <0M7800D736UODJL0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Tony, How did you attach the E-track to the trailer deck? What is your deck made of? Mine is diamond plate steel. At etrailer.com I saw a video where they were installing it on wood trailer walls, but I think our application is a bit more critical. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 11:07 PM 7/14/2012, Tony Vaccaro wrote: >For years I used straps around the axle, straps around the frame and straps >through the tires. > >The last trailer I bought had E Track installed. Was set up for a specific >car so I had to buy more. Was not expensive. > >I now use the straps that go over the tires, tie down to the E Track right >before and after the tires and you ratchet the straps over the tires. >Compresses the tires. > >As long as you don't have any leaks in your tires, works great. And is the >least damaging to everything. Suspension rides normal. No frame bending. >Etc.... > >Lots of places sell it. > >Tony Vaccaro >Lotus Owners of NY (LOONY) >www.lotusowners.com >716-861-1412 From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sun Jul 15 18:09:03 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 19:09:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: That is the kind of thing that scares me about the project. Wouldn't cam/piston/rod damage be noticeable if you turned the engine through several revolutions once the head was off? > Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 14:34:42 -0400 > From: fishplate at gmail.com > To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap > > On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > > I was under the impression that a broken > > timing belt was likely to trash the entire engine. > > My only real experience with this is in Volkswagen OHC engines back in > the day. I seem to recall that at least one car we saw had hit hard > enough for the valves to break the camshaft in several pieces, but > only left some half-moon shaped dents in the pistons. It was > difficult to evaluate what damage might have been done -- There is the > risk of one or more cracked pistons or bent rods, which would not > necessarily be obvious. > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From tvacc at lotusowners.com Sun Jul 15 18:22:49 2012 From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 20:22:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <0M7800I913ZBLGG0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <020d01cd6236$ef47d270$cdd77750$@lotusowners.com> <0M7800I913ZBLGG0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <035a01cd62e9$21dd84c0$65988e40$@lotusowners.com> My deck is diamond plate aluminum. I used self taping bolts. Stainless steel ones or maybe they were plated. Cannot remember. Tony Vaccaro Lotus Owners of NY (LOONY) www.lotusowners.com 716-861-1412 -----Original Message----- From: Steven Trovato [mailto:strovato at optonline.net] Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 6:30 PM To: Tony Vaccaro; shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler Tony, How did you attach the E-track to the trailer deck? What is your deck made of? Mine is diamond plate steel. At etrailer.com I saw a video where they were installing it on wood trailer walls, but I think our application is a bit more critical. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 11:07 PM 7/14/2012, Tony Vaccaro wrote: >For years I used straps around the axle, straps around the frame and >straps through the tires. > >The last trailer I bought had E Track installed. Was set up for a >specific car so I had to buy more. Was not expensive. > >I now use the straps that go over the tires, tie down to the E Track >right before and after the tires and you ratchet the straps over the tires. >Compresses the tires. > >As long as you don't have any leaks in your tires, works great. And is >the least damaging to everything. Suspension rides normal. No frame bending. >Etc.... > >Lots of places sell it. > >Tony Vaccaro >Lotus Owners of NY (LOONY) >www.lotusowners.com >716-861-1412 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net >[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Niolon >Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:58 PM >To: shop-talk >Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler > >finally got my car hauler... 18' Anderson with two axle brakes, rear >slide in ramps, removable fender, 2' dovetail... > >want to start accumulating what I need to haul my '53 f-100 truck. Truck >is >16' long nose to tail and will weigh in around 3800-4000. > >the trailer has 4 tie downs welded in , one at each corner and side >board anchors along each side, no rub rail. wondering the best type of >tie down to use with the truck... I like ther wheel basket straps on each wheel.. >seems it would secure it well but not pull down the suspension... which >may or may not affect towing ??? > >axle straps and ratchet binders hold well but are a pain to install, >right ?? > >how about e-track ??? > >suggestions please from you car/truck towing gurus > >thanks >John > >you guys always have the best info ! > > > > > >I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation >$12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation >$12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net From shannahquilts at gmail.com Sun Jul 15 19:02:46 2012 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 18:02:46 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > it only being the head/valves? I was under the impression that a broken > timing belt was likely to trash the entire engine. If the odds are that > rebuilding/replacing the head is enough, then I would want my brother to know > that before dumping the car cheaply, even if I was going to be the beneficiary > of that dumping. > Just one data point: I had the timing (I think it was a chain) go out in a 1969 Mustang, and it did not trash the entire engine. We just had to replace the chain, and my friend drove it SF to LA later that weekend, with no problems. Shannah From doug at dougbraun.com Sun Jul 15 19:35:31 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 21:35:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dehumidifier suddenly freezing up In-Reply-To: <20120715.124130.22010.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> References: <20120715.124130.22010.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Maybe it would be less trouble to connect a battery to some strategic point in the circuit to keep the electronics powered up. Or better still, try to buy a unit without that problem. Doug On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Matt wrote: > Doug wrote:... If the AC power goes off for even a moment, it resets to the > "off" state. This means that I can't go away on vacation and assume it > will keep working the entire time. Would a small UPS solve that? One of > the inexpensive APS ones that are often used for computers - Mine don't > really > provide much use of the computer, but rather allow a controlled shutdown > rather than just a blink off. I realize it wouldn't run the compressor for > very long at all, but maybe to catch the the momentary power glitches? Matt > _____________________ From elans4 at cox.net Sun Jul 15 19:35:59 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 21:35:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> David Hillman wrote: > > a few times does not have attachment points on the > chassis, so tying to the wheels is the only option, > and you can feel the difference. Isn't tying it to the wheels essentially the same as using a tire "boot". The car is still free to move on its suspension. Many cars don't have tie down hooks (although most imported ones do). Some cars (like my Elise) have a fragile chassis that you could easily bend by wrapping straps around the a-arms, or chassis. The factory ships them across the ocean with "boots", since there are no tie down hooks or anyplace else to attach to. The only time I've even known someone who preferred to tie down the chassis was an old buddy with a formula race car. The shocks were way too expensive (and hard to get) to let it bounce around on the suspension. Tim Mullen From 57healey at gmail.com Sun Jul 15 20:26:21 2012 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 21:26:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Go join the swedespeed forum and ask there, they will know the swaps you can do. Patton - Volvo '05 XC90 V8, '12 S60 T5. On Jul 14, 2012, at 9:20 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > My brother has a 2004 Volvo S80 with 60,000 miles on it. It was in excellent > condition until the timing belt broke and trashed the engine. At least I > assume the engine was trashed. He had the timing belt replaced on the off > chance that no damage was done, but that didn't do the trick. Volvo has > offered to cut him a deal on a new car, but they don't seem to want the old > one at all. I have no idea what it is worth with a bad engine, but I don't > think he is going to get very much for it. > > Which brings this email to me. I am thinking about buying it and putting a > used engine in. However, my experience under the hood on modern cars is next > to nil. I have had Alpine engines in and out many times, but am always > intimidated when I look under the hood of a modern car. Assuming I gave my > brother a grand for the car (his mechanic suggested > that might be a fair value) and bought a used engine for $2500, I'd have a > car worth considerably more. My daughter is currently driving a 1996 > Accord with almost 140,000 miles; this would be a hell of an upgrade if > it was feasible. How hard is this? Am I crazy to even think about it? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/57healey at gmail.com From jem at milleredp.com Sun Jul 15 22:54:32 2012 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 21:54:32 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50039E88.5020803@milleredp.com> > Just one data point: I had the timing (I think it was a chain) go out > in a 1969 Mustang, and it did not trash the entire engine. We just > had to replace the chain, and my friend drove it SF to LA later that > weekend, with no problems. Depending on the valve configuration, the amount of camshaft lobe lift, etc. an engine can be an 'interference' or a 'non-interference' engine. In a 'non-interference' engine a broken cam drive results in the engine stopping; in an 'interference' engine it can result in a bunch of scrap metal. Some regard the combination of belt drive and interference valvetrain as bad juju, though the real issue here is (a) be conservative about the belt replacement interval and (b) replace all the tensioners and guides when the thing's opened. Most call for replacement every 60K-100K miles. A cam belt change can be trivial or utter hell depending on the car. On an old Audi Fox it could be done in about the time it's taking me to type this reply. But...a year and change ago I did our '02 Audi S6, and the first step to changing the cam belt on that car is to remove the front of the car - front bumper cap comes off, radiator support unbolts and slides out four inches. Pretty much the first step for doing anything around the front of the engine on that car. Once you've got all the cruft out of the way it's not too bad to work on, but it's a PITA to get to that point. On that flavor of Audi the rule of thumb is to replace EVERY wear item on the front of the engine - seals, water pump, accessory drive belt and tensioner, etc. - when it's opened up, because the $150 you save in not doing so will look pretty pound-foolish when you end up shelling out another grand in labor (or a full day of your own time) pulling the thing apart again to change something later. Note that most 'cam belt' failures are NOT the belt; the failure is more often in one of the tensioners, guides, or idler rollers. GM has a little 54-degree V6 built in the UK that's been used in a couple Saabs, a couple Saturns, and the Cadillac Catera (Opel Omega elsewhere.) It's an interference engine and in Europe the belt-change interval spec is 48K km (30K miles) but when brought to the US GM rolled the dice for some reason and kicked the interval up to 60K-100K miles depending on the car. They'd claim they improved the belt guide hardware but whatever they did wasn't good enough. Saab got that engine around '94 in the US, and after a few engine failures they settled a class-action by agreeing to pay for 30K mile belt changes for the life of the affected cars. Despite this experience GM *still* stuck a 100K-mile belt change requirement on the Catera, and those things blew up right and left at 80K miles. Shame, 'cause otherwise it was quite a nice car. Note that chain cam drive does not mean immunity from failure, many chain drive engines suffer significant sprocket or tensioner wear by 120K or so. This was the Achilles' heel of the Nissan VH45DE, the beautiful V8 used in the '90-95 Infiniti Q45. You've got to change your chain and guide pads every 100K, just like it was a belt-drive engine. John. From 57healey at gmail.com Sun Jul 15 23:02:45 2012 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:02:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <065589A3-8199-45E4-8AA3-81F414FC1F26@gmail.com> depends if the engine is an interference engine or not. In an interference engine a broken timing belt can cause the valves to hit the pistons causing massive damage. I know some Volvos are, I don't know if the S80 motor is Patton - Plano On Jul 15, 2012, at 8:02 PM, Shannah Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > >> it only being the head/valves? I was under the impression that a broken >> timing belt was likely to trash the entire engine. If the odds are that >> rebuilding/replacing the head is enough, then I would want my brother to know >> that before dumping the car cheaply, even if I was going to be the beneficiary >> of that dumping. >> > Just one data point: I had the timing (I think it was a chain) go out > in a 1969 Mustang, and it did not trash the entire engine. We just > had to replace the chain, and my friend drove it SF to LA later that > weekend, From berry at kerch.com Sun Jul 15 23:56:08 2012 From: berry at kerch.com (Berry Kercheval) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 22:56:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CEE51C5-5AE4-4249-B81A-4395177BFBC5@kerch.com> Yes,but Mustang v8s are not interference engines; twin cam Volvo engines like the one in the S80 are, so there's a real chance that the valves and pistons are messed up. Sent from my iPad On Jul 15, 2012, at 6:02 PM, Shannah Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > >> it only being the head/valves? I was under the impression that a broken >> timing belt was likely to trash the entire engine. If the odds are that >> rebuilding/replacing the head is enough, then I would want my brother to know >> that before dumping the car cheaply, even if I was going to be the beneficiary >> of that dumping. >> > Just one data point: I had the timing (I think it was a chain) go out > in a 1969 Mustang, and it did not trash the entire engine. We just > had to replace the chain, and my friend drove it SF to LA later that > weekend, with no problems. > > Shannah > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/berry at kerch.com From shannahquilts at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 00:38:12 2012 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:38:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: <0CEE51C5-5AE4-4249-B81A-4395177BFBC5@kerch.com> References: <0CEE51C5-5AE4-4249-B81A-4395177BFBC5@kerch.com> Message-ID: I didn't say there was no chance. I said I had one anecdote. From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 16 08:39:41 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:39:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: <065589A3-8199-45E4-8AA3-81F414FC1F26@gmail.com> References: <065589A3-8199-45E4-8AA3-81F414FC1F26@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0M7900436CSXDM10@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> In the initial post, he said his brother had the broken timing belt replaced but that "didn't do the trick." I think from this we can conclude that either it is an interference engine and more damage was done, or someone made a stupid mistake. With the belt replaced, I would do a compression or leakdown test. I would also seek out expertise on that particular engine. I would say that on many interference engines, bent valves is the worst outcome. If there isn't a particular known greater risk with this motor, then replacing/rebuilding the head sounds like a reasonable move. Of course with the head removed, the pistons can be checked for obvious damage. At this point, you haven't invested anything except the labor removing the head. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 01:02 AM 7/16/2012, Patton Dickson wrote: >depends if the engine is an interference engine or not. In an interference >engine a broken timing belt can cause the valves to hit the pistons causing >massive damage. > >I know some Volvos are, I don't know if the S80 motor is > >Patton - Plano From elans4 at cox.net Mon Jul 16 09:18:46 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 11:18:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: <50039E88.5020803@milleredp.com> References: <50039E88.5020803@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <001b01cd6366$4b515d90$e1f418b0$@net> John Miller wrote: > > in Europe the belt-change interval spec is 48K km (30K miles) > but when brought to the US GM rolled the dice for some reason > and kicked the interval up to 60K-100K miles depending on the car. It's not the manufacturers, it's the government. The federal regulations require that "emission equipment" must be warranted for at least 60K miles in order to be certified. California did it one better and required 100K miles. So, the manufacturers had to do the calculations and decide if it was worth it to re-design everything, or pay for the expected number of engines that would require repairing. An example of this is the early Miatas. They require that the timing belt be replaced every 60K miles - except in California where you need to replace them every 100K miles. Exactly the same parts, but geography somehow magically makes the parts last longer in California. Oh, by the way, this was all as of 10 years or so ago, the feds may have upped the requirements since then. Tim Mullen From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 16 14:37:54 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:37:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: <001b01cd6366$4b515d90$e1f418b0$@net> References: <50039E88.5020803@milleredp.com> <001b01cd6366$4b515d90$e1f418b0$@net> Message-ID: But in California, was it WARRANTIED for 100k miles? Doug On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Mullen wrote: > John Miller wrote: > > > > in Europe the belt-change interval spec is 48K km (30K miles) > > but when brought to the US GM rolled the dice for some reason > > and kicked the interval up to 60K-100K miles depending on the car. > > It's not the manufacturers, it's the government. > > The federal regulations require that "emission equipment" must be warranted > for at least 60K miles in order to be certified. California did it one > better and required 100K miles. So, the manufacturers had to do the > calculations and decide if it was worth it to re-design everything, or pay > for the expected number of engines that would require repairing. > > An example of this is the early Miatas. They require that the timing belt > be replaced every 60K miles - except in California where you need to > replace > them every 100K miles. Exactly the same parts, but geography somehow > magically makes the parts last longer in California. > > Oh, by the way, this was all as of 10 years or so ago, the feds may have > upped the requirements since then. > > Tim Mullen > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug at dougbraun.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Mon Jul 16 15:23:21 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jul 2012, Mullen wrote: > The only time I've even known someone who preferred to tie down the chassis > was an old buddy with a formula race car. The shocks were way too expensive > (and hard to get) to let it bounce around on the suspension. There seem to be two different schools of thought on shocks. One says they wear excessively while the towed car bounces around on the trailer. The other says they wear excessively being put under load when the chassis is tied down. I don't know which is right, or maybe both are. I don't care... for me, I keep it simple. What is the method least likely to cause the trailer to acquire a mind of its own? If I'm transporting a ton or so of car amongst people who can hire lawyers, that's my only concern. Even if it meant annual shock replacements, I'd still do it the safest way possible, and I think that's securing the load. Basically, it's a less-severe case of the same reason you never move a liquid tank while half-full. When that mass sloshes over to one side, you are along for the ride. -- David Hillman From elans4 at cox.net Mon Jul 16 15:12:21 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:12:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: References: <50039E88.5020803@milleredp.com> <001b01cd6366$4b515d90$e1f418b0$@net> Message-ID: <008501cd6397$b0b13f30$1213bd90$@net> Doug Braun wrote: > > But in California, was it WARRANTIED for 100k miles? > >> The federal regulations require that "emission equipment" must be warranted >> for at least 60K miles in order to be certified. California did it one >> better and required 100K miles. So, the manufacturers had to do the >> calculations and decide if it was worth it to re-design everything, or pay >> for the expected number of engines that would require repairing. Yes (and no). If a system failed on the engine that affected the emissions, it is warranted. That includes skipped teeth on a timing belt, a burnt valve, a clogged fuel injector, cat, etc. But only if the engine is running. If it isn't running, they may not (or they may) have to fix it under warranty. In any case, the California ARB determined that timing belts affected emissions and had to be warranted for 100K miles. Tim Mullen From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 16 18:52:50 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 20:52:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Where the Other Half keeps their collector cars... Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/sports/car-club-for-the-fast-and-the-affluent.html From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 16 19:04:04 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:04:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> Message-ID: <0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> My decision is not based on the shocks at all. If I tow the car 500 miles, I can't see how the shocks will be worn any more than driving it 500 miles. And for my situation, that's just not that important. My concern is that if tied by the chassis, the suspension can still compress, momentarily slackening the straps. Then the car comes back up and slams against the straps. That just doesn't sound good for the car or the straps. As for the safety issue, I haven't done a comparison, but I have never felt any handling effect. Maybe it's because I'm towing with a large vehicle and the car on the trailer is relatively light. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 05:23 PM 7/16/2012, David Hillman wrote: >On Sun, 15 Jul 2012, Mullen wrote: >>The only time I've even known someone who preferred to tie down the chassis >>was an old buddy with a formula race car. The shocks were way too expensive >>(and hard to get) to let it bounce around on the suspension. > > There seem to be two different schools of thought on > shocks. One says they wear excessively while the towed car bounces > around on the trailer. The other says they wear excessively being > put under load when the chassis is tied down. > > I don't know which is right, or maybe both are. I don't care... > for me, I keep it simple. What is the method least likely to cause > the trailer to acquire a mind of its own? If I'm transporting a > ton or so of car amongst people who can hire lawyers, that's my > only concern. Even if it meant annual shock replacements, I'd > still do it the safest way possible, and I think that's securing > the load. Basically, it's a less-severe case of the same reason > you never move a liquid tank while half-full. When that mass > sloshes over to one side, you are along for the ride. > >-- > David Hillman >_______________________ From kvacek at ameritech.net Mon Jul 16 20:04:37 2012 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:04:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap In-Reply-To: <008501cd6397$b0b13f30$1213bd90$@net> References: <50039E88.5020803@milleredp.com> <001b01cd6366$4b515d90$e1f418b0$@net> <008501cd6397$b0b13f30$1213bd90$@net> Message-ID: <002f01cd63c0$858ec790$90ac56b0$@ameritech.net> That'd be an interesting Catch-22. Your timing belt breaks and trashes the engine. The manufacturer replaces the belt on your dead engine. And it still doesn't run, so the belt won't wear out again... =8~O -----Original Message----- From: Mullen Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Volvo Engine Swap Yes (and no). If a system failed on the engine that affected the emissions, it is warranted. That includes skipped teeth on a timing belt, a burnt valve, a clogged fuel injector, cat, etc. But only if the engine is running. If it isn't running, they may not (or they may) have to fix it under warranty. In any case, the California ARB determined that timing belts affected emissions and had to be warranted for 100K miles. Tim Mullen From ronnie.day at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 20:41:02 2012 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 21:41:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> Message-ID: I remember seeing a segment on a TV program about this some time ago. For some reason I think it involved John Force's funny cars when they still using a box trailer rather than a semi. They couldn't figure out why the shocks on the car were getting messed up while towing between events. I'm also pretty sure they were securing the car by tying the wheels down using either D-rings or E-track. Someone realized they could stick a camera in the trailer to keep an eye on things. Basically the chassis was being thrown around pretty actively with the movements far exceeding the loads the suspension components were designed for. IIRC, the solution (before they moved to a semi rig) was to add straps to limit the movement chassis movement. They may have redesigned the trailer suspension to allow some controlled movement there, too. I doubt many car haulers use shocks and fewer are adjustable for load weight. FWIW, Ron On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:23 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jul 2012, Mullen wrote: > >> The only time I've even known someone who preferred to tie down the >> chassis >> was an old buddy with a formula race car. The shocks were way too >> expensive >> (and hard to get) to let it bounce around on the suspension. >> > > There seem to be two different schools of thought on shocks. One says > they wear excessively while the towed car bounces around on the trailer. > The other says they wear excessively being put under load when the chassis > is tied down. > > I don't know which is right, or maybe both are. I don't care... for > me, I keep it simple. What is the method least likely to cause the trailer > to acquire a mind of its own? If I'm transporting a ton or so of car > amongst people who can hire lawyers, that's my only concern. Even if it > meant annual shock replacements, I'd still do it the safest way possible, > and I think that's securing the load. Basically, it's a less-severe case > of the same reason you never move a liquid tank while half-full. When that > mass sloshes over to one side, you are along for the ride. > > -- > David Hillman > ______________________________**_________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/** > options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@**gmail.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Mon Jul 16 21:44:25 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> <0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2012, Steven Trovato wrote: > My decision is not based on the shocks at all. If I tow the car 500 miles, I > can't see how the shocks will be worn any more than driving it 500 miles. > And for my situation, that's just not that important. My concern is that if > tied by the chassis, the suspension can still compress, momentarily > slackening the straps. Then the car comes back up and slams against the > straps. That just doesn't sound good for the car or the straps. As for the > safety issue, I haven't done a comparison, but I have never felt any handling > effect. Maybe it's because I'm towing with a large vehicle and the car on > the trailer is relatively light. Don't your shocks have rebound damping? I'm not sure 'slam' is the right word on a car with a functioning semi-modern suspension. In my case, I cross tie-down straps on each end, so whatever force the chassis is applying to the strap in the episode you describe is mostly pivoting the ~8' strap, not stretching it. While not important to me, 500 miles on racing shocks can be a big deal. I can see why people would care about that... but not at the expense of controlling their rig. Personally, I would never tow a heavy vehicle, or any other load, on a light trailer that was suspended and subject to shifting around. The physics involved scream danger, to me. YMMV, and I know people do it all the time. People also smoke ;) -- David Hillman From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 16 22:07:33 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:07:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> <0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0M7A0022TE6YFUT0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> You make some good points. I never considered the way crossing the straps changes the situation. I would imagine that a race car would have a very tight suspension and wouldn't really move very much on its suspension regardless of how you tie it down. You do what seems reasonable to you. I do what seems reasonable to me. I really don't hear any screaming danger in either approach. The fact that the tire basket style tie-downs even exist tells me that it can't be totally crazy. This whole thing should be more of a science and less of a matter of opinion. Do you know of any authoritative sources that tell you the best way? I'd be interested in learning more. -Steve At 11:44 PM 7/16/2012, David Hillman wrote: > Don't your shocks have rebound damping? I'm not sure 'slam' is > the right word on a car with a functioning semi-modern > suspension. In my case, I cross tie-down straps on each end, so > whatever force the chassis is applying to the strap in the episode > you describe is mostly pivoting the ~8' strap, not stretching it. > > While not important to me, 500 miles on racing shocks can be a > big deal. I can see why people would care about that... but not at > the expense of controlling their rig. Personally, I would never > tow a heavy vehicle, or any other load, on a light trailer that was > suspended and subject to shifting around. The physics involved > scream danger, to me. YMMV, and I know people do it all the > time. People also smoke ;) > >-- > David Hillman From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 16 23:39:08 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 01:39:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> Message-ID: <0M7A009MMIHG0CR0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Thought this was interesting: http://www.towman.com/2/bestofat0029.html It's not exactly the same thing, because they're talking about car carrier trucks, but it is interesting nonetheless. -Steve From fishplate at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 07:00:49 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:00:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <0M7A0022TE6YFUT0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> <0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0M7A0022TE6YFUT0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > The fact that the tire basket style tie-downs even exist tells me that it > can't be totally crazy. When I sold my VW Campmobile last winter, the guy who picked it up got it as a backhaul. His normal load was Ambulances being hauled from the factory in Indiana to the port at Savannah or Charleston. He tied it down by the wheels...but it looked scary to me. All other things being equal, I'd tie the wheels down tight, then cross-strap the frame snug. But I'm an Over-Engineer by training. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Jul 17 10:28:19 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Where the Other Half keeps their collector cars... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jul 2012, Doug Braun wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/sports/car-club-for-the-fast-and-the-affluent.html I thought the comment from the gentleman at the club in NY was strange. He's never seen anyone replicate their model? They've been building these clubs everywhere for a decade. There's one near Chicago, and a second one a few miles away just waiting for 'The Recovery' to start. It's not that odd, when you realize there are dozens of private golf clubs in the area with even higher initiation fees and dues... and full membership. All that money that the middle-class lost didn't just evaporate, it's just in fewer hands, now. -- David Hillman From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 11:25:42 2012 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:25:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2043115995.145899.1342545942014.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > There seem to be two different schools of thought on shocks. One says > they wear excessively while the towed car bounces around on the > trailer. Nonsense. The cycles they go through are much more gentle than what the car sees racing. > The other says they wear excessively being put under load when the > chassis > is tied down. Shocks should not be moving at all when the chassis is tied down. Springs might get some sag from being under pressure, but I can't believe its measurable. I tie down to E-track with straps over the tires. I have a lot of flexibility on different cars, as the ratchet runs horizontal, parallel to the E-track via a strap idler pulley. The E-track is held down to my enclosed Pace American's three-plywoods-thick floor by hundreds of 1/4-20 Grade 5 bolts, Nyloc nuts and 2" fender washers. For the Stag and any other narrow-track car, I have basket straps with idlers and custom-shortened cross straps. Ends are swivel hooks, which mate to heavy-duty O-rings. For the Elise and any other wider car with wider tires, I have straight straps with idlers and those rubber blocks bearing tire-groove fins. Ends are dedicated horizontal E-track. The only issue I have had is that I got my Race Ramps too close to the rear of the Elise, and the diffuser chopped a slot in the foam ramp. Lesson learned, black race tape to the rescue. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jul 17 12:18:01 2012 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 18:18:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Where the Other Half keeps their collector cars... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2014432634.148770.1342549081925.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > I thought the comment from the gentleman at the club in NY was > strange. > He's never seen anyone replicate their model? They've been building > these > clubs everywhere for a decade. There's one near Chicago, and a second > one a few miles away just waiting for 'The Recovery' to start. > > It's not that odd, when you realize there are dozens of private golf > clubs in the area with even higher initiation fees and dues... and > full > membership. All that money that the middle-class lost didn't > just evaporate, it's just in fewer hands, now. "Ibve yet to see a single one actually launch." Nonsense. Arlington Texas, Beaver Pennsylvania, Joliet Illinois, Parrumph Nevada, etc. Even Brainerd Minnsota and Summit Point West Virginia have something similar. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com From elans4 at cox.net Tue Jul 17 13:11:21 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:11:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <2043115995.145899.1342545942014.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <2043115995.145899.1342545942014.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <005401cd644f$f3d810f0$db8832d0$@net> I seem to have accidentally start a misunderstanding about shocks and tying cars down. I was simply saying that an old buddy would put blocks under his suspension and tie the car down tight to that so there was no movement of the suspension. The car was a Formula Ford (he was in the top 5 drivers at the national level) - a car that was so light weight that it had to have weight added to meet the minimum weight limits. He did not want his car bouncing around on the shocks for 500 - 1,000 miles on the way to/from the track shocks that would normally see less than 50 miles of use on the track. They had to be replaced (rebuilt) often as it was during the racing season. As to the best way, well - that depends. As I indicated that the Elise is shipped from England and across the country in containers using tie downs attached to the wheels. There is no place to tie to the chassis, and if you did tie to the chassis, you would probably damage it. On the other hand, my Miata (and Honda) have tie down hooks built into the chassis for shipment when they make the car. It's simply a matter of preference, and having a ton of car "bouncing around" on a trailer should have no more affect than the bouncing around of a ton of car and trailer bouncing together - if anything the car tied down by its suspension should help to dampen the bouncing (I haven't seen too many trailers with shock absorbers on the trailer suspension). To each his own, but I would prefer to use tire baskets and E-tracks to secure a car on my trailer. Tim Mullen From strovato at optonline.net Tue Jul 17 14:29:03 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:29:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <005401cd644f$f3d810f0$db8832d0$@net> References: <2043115995.145899.1342545942014.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <005401cd644f$f3d810f0$db8832d0$@net> Message-ID: <0M7B0079RNML2HD0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Here's what miata.net has to say about the Miata hooks: On both the front and back of the Miata are a pair of (ugly) hooks. These hooks are used when Miatas are transported on ships from Japan to the States. The cars are secured by the suspension, and these hooks are used as backups to prevent the car from bouncing around a cargo ship should the primary hold downs fail. These are not tow hooks, and according to the factory, using them to tow the car can damage the bodywork/frame of your car. However an analysis performed by Lance Schall proves that the car would not be damaged. Still, your Miata will look a lot better for it. The mounting holes for the rear tie down hooks are frequently used for mounting a trailer hitch or bicycle carrier. Some competition sanctioning bodies (SCCA) consider the tie down hooks standard equipment and may not allow their removal in Stock classes. (Unless you trophy at a National Event, this probably isn't a big problem. Keep them just in case though!) I also recall that there was a situation years ago with cars being transported by rail. Apparently, the very regular bounce caused by the train movement was causing some sort of suspension or shock issue. I don't remember the details. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 03:11 PM 7/17/2012, Mullen wrote: >On the other hand, my >Miata (and Honda) have tie down hooks built into the chassis for shipment when >they make the car. From jniolon at att.net Tue Jul 17 16:34:18 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:34:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406><00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net><0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><0M7A0022TE6YFUT0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <7D985D9CB44E4313BB9C8E975E9DA6B3@john5043a2d406> another question on the baskets (this is how I'm leaning... no holes in my pretty frame, no clearance to climb under the truck for axle straps and the brake lines are in the way anyway. My rears are 12.5" wide...tire diameter 26.5) I wonder if they make a basket that will work with that width without spending extra $$$ for custom made... and will a single strap be sufficient to hold that wide a wheel in place. ?? john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Scarbrough" To: "shop-talk at autox.team.net" Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler > On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Steven Trovato > wrote: >> The fact that the tire basket style tie-downs even exist tells me that >> it >> can't be totally crazy. > > When I sold my VW Campmobile last winter, the guy who picked it up got > it as a backhaul. His normal load was Ambulances being hauled from > the factory in Indiana to the port at Savannah or Charleston. He tied > it down by the wheels...but it looked scary to me. > > All other things being equal, I'd tie the wheels down tight, then > cross-strap the frame snug. But I'm an Over-Engineer by training. > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net From elans4 at cox.net Tue Jul 17 21:32:07 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:32:07 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <0M7B0079RNML2HD0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <2043115995.145899.1342545942014.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <005401cd644f$f3d810f0$db8832d0$@net> <0M7B0079RNML2HD0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <001b01cd6495$e85df9b0$b919ed10$@net> Steven Trovato wrote: > > These are not tow hooks, and according to the factory, using > them to tow the car can damage the bodywork/frame of your car. To add a bit to this (in the case of the Miata), the hooks are "tucked up" in the chassis - if you hooked a tow strap to the hooks, the strap would have to come down, then out from under the car, placing the straps against the body panels. Also, they are flat pieces of metal, so any side loadings could easily bend the "hooks" (actually flat straps with holes in them). Do not use them to tow the car (i.e. down the road and around corners). The factory isn't going to try to explain (and accept liability) for the proper use of the hooks, so it is simply easier (and less liable) to say never to use them. But for strapping down on a trailer the hold down "hooks" should do fine as long as the straps are angled down (away from the body) and straight (fore and aft). Still, I'd rather use tire "bonnets". Tim Mullen From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 22:52:41 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:52:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <7D985D9CB44E4313BB9C8E975E9DA6B3@john5043a2d406> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406> <00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> <0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0M7A0022TE6YFUT0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <7D985D9CB44E4313BB9C8E975E9DA6B3@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 5:34 PM, John Niolon wrote: > another question on the baskets (this is how I'm leaning... no holes in my > pretty frame, no clearance to climb under the truck for axle straps and the > brake lines are in the way anyway. > > My rears are 12.5" wide...tire diameter 26.5) I wonder if they make a > basket that will work with that width without spending extra $$$ for custom > made... and will a single strap be sufficient to hold that wide a wheel in > place. ?? One thing that we used when I was driving a carrier was a system that ran a strap from the middle of the bed to the end, on the inside of towed vehicle's wheel. We put a short axle strap (12 or 16 inches long) from the main strap in front of the wheel, to the main strap behind the wheel. The ratchet binder on the main strap pulled the slack out of the main strap, and because the axle strap was short, it forced the main strap to wrap around the vehicle's tire. Took a bit of fiddling sometimes, to keep the loop from popping off the top or bottom of the wheel, but not bad. Some thing like that requires that you have a tie down point (or better, two, close to the wheels) in the middle of the deck, and not just at the corners. (that's useful for lots of things, too. Look at the web sites for tow truck suppliers. There's a huge amount of options available, whether you're in the "tie the wheels down" or "tie the frame down" camp. > > john > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Scarbrough" > To: "shop-talk at autox.team.net" > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 8:00 AM > > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler > > >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Steven Trovato >> wrote: >>> >>> The fact that the tire basket style tie-downs even exist tells me that >>> it >>> can't be totally crazy. >> >> >> When I sold my VW Campmobile last winter, the guy who picked it up got >> it as a backhaul. His normal load was Ambulances being hauled from >> the factory in Indiana to the port at Savannah or Charleston. He tied >> it down by the wheels...but it looked scary to me. >> >> All other things being equal, I'd tie the wheels down tight, then >> cross-strap the frame snug. But I'm an Over-Engineer by training. >> >> Jeff Scarbrough >> Corrosion Acres, Ga. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at att.net > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From gsteve at hammatt.com Thu Jul 19 08:39:21 2012 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:39:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406><00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net><0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><0M7A0022TE6YFUT0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><7D985D9CB44E4313BB9C8E975E9DA6B3@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: I have a couple of different types of cars (open wheel, horseless carriage, early '30s luxury and mid '60s rear-engine). I also early on learned to dislike crawling under cars to wrap straps around axles, etc. I also don't like stressing the cars by attempting to pull the axles off the cars. Therefore I actually built my own version of the type that David mentions (below). I have a number of D-rings installed in the floor and always tie down to D-rings close to the front and rear of each wheel. If I loose one or more straps for some reason, the remaining strap(s) will hold the car in place. Also, in the past with open trailers, when the ratchets got wet, there would be corrosion in the metal parts. I cured that by buying only stainless steel ratcheting mechanisms. I also purchased a huge roll of strapping and then built by own straps, to the length and strength that I wanted. My upholster did the sewing. The only change I'd make would be to switch to E-Track and to add E-Track horizontally to the trailer side walls (very helpful when returning from swap-meets). Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA www.leatherplates.com -----Original Message----- From: David Scheidt One thing that we used when I was driving a carrier was a system that ran a strap from the middle of the bed to the end, on the inside of towed vehicle's wheel. We put a short axle strap (12 or 16 inches long) from the main strap in front of the wheel, to the main strap behind the wheel. The ratchet binder on the main strap pulled the slack out of the main strap, and because the axle strap was short, it forced the main strap to wrap around the vehicle's tire. Took a bit of fiddling sometimes, to keep the loop from popping off the top or bottom of the wheel, but not bad. Some thing like that requires that you have a tie down point (or better, two, close to the wheels) in the middle of the deck, and not just at the corners. (that's useful for lots of things, too. Look at the web sites for tow truck suppliers. There's a huge amount of options available, whether you're in the "tie the wheels down" or "tie the frame down" camp. From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jul 19 10:35:28 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:35:28 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <4DE0885EAE444EC0AEAD1CE00FA61CF4@john5043a2d406><00cd01cd62f3$5ad361f0$107a25d0$@net> <0M7A00CM25PCGMS0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <021a01cd65cc$81ec4050$0601a8c0@randall> > As for the safety issue, I haven't > done a comparison, but I have never felt any handling effect. I have tried both ways, and my preference is to secure by the wheels. The comparison with a tank full of liquid is flawed IMO, the cars suspension will not let the center of gravity move very far and is actually better at damping movement (because of the shock absorbers) than the trailer suspension is. The dangerous part of a part full tank of liquid is that the liquid can slosh violently, moving the CG all over the place plus concentrating the force over a very short time (when the liquid slams into the side of the tank) rather than keeping it moving with the trailer. > Maybe it's because I'm towing with a large vehicle and the car on the > trailer is relatively light. I have towed when the trailer+car was heavier than the tow vehicle. Not dramatically different, but it does push the tow vehicle around more. Stopping distance goes up rapidly even with trailer brakes. -- Randall From pethier at comcast.net Thu Jul 19 11:10:33 2012 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:10:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] which tie down best for car hauler In-Reply-To: <7D985D9CB44E4313BB9C8E975E9DA6B3@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: <101997616.236734.1342717833872.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > My rears are 12.5" wide...tire diameter 26.5) I wonder if they make a > basket that will work with that width without spending extra $$$ for > custom > made... and will a single strap be sufficient to hold that wide a > wheel in > place. Actually, the reverse seems to be true. The web "baskets" I bought off the shelf had a cross-strap that was WAY too long for the skinny tires on my TR4 and the wide tires on my Caterham 7. On the Caterham, there was a brake line in severe danger. I had to fold the strap and have it professionally sewn essentially one-third the original length. After that, no problems. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com From eric at megageek.com Mon Jul 23 03:55:20 2012 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 05:55:20 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck Message-ID: Has anyone here had any experience with this handheld oil analyzer? For the price, if it worked, it seems like a great product. http://lubricheck.com/ So, what's the verdict? Thanks. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Jul 23 06:03:14 2012 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:03:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <500D3D82.1050007@xxiii.com> On 7/23/2012 5:55 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > Has anyone here had any experience with this handheld oil analyzer? For > the price, if it worked, it seems like a great product. > http://lubricheck.com/ Sounds awesome, but also like snake oil. I send samples to Blackstone Labs for analysis. For $40, sounds like sub-harbor-freight garbage I wouldn't trust further than I could throw it. -Wayne From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Jul 23 06:09:52 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 05:09:52 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05d801cd68cc$10fd1150$0601a8c0@randall> Never heard of it, but I'd like to hear more. Kind of sounds like it is just measuring resistance, which could be done without the $40 gadget. I don't doubt that the resistance changes, but I'm not certain how well it correlates to actual oil condition. A bit of poking around produced this site, which talks about some other simple (and mostly free) methods of oil testing. http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/348/check-car-oil -- Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Mon Jul 23 09:41:51 2012 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:41:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck In-Reply-To: <500D3D82.1050007@xxiii.com> References: <500D3D82.1050007@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <002601cd68e9$ae2966f0$0a7c34d0$@ameritech.net> Amen. On the cars, I do 3,000-mile (or annual on the MG and Model T) oil changes, despite running synthetic in the Mustang and Yukon. I doubt that this would show that the oil I'm throwing out is bad. I change the Stearman's oil (4-1/2 gallons at a time) based on running time and season. Because of seasonal changes, I seldom approach the very conservative 25-hour spec that applies but was set in the 1930's, but still send samples to Blackstone every time. They send more than a full sheet of data, which I correlate to my recent maintenance and use/storage pattern to make sure it looks right. A simple good/sorta good/bad display doesn't tell you much about the identity of various particulates, like how much iron, tin, lead, aluminum, zinc, carbon, etc., so it's NOT a substitute for actual oil analysis. Is it better than not testing at all? Maybe, but I don't want to wait to change oil till I see a "bad" reading. Karl -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck Sounds awesome, but also like snake oil. I send samples to Blackstone Labs for analysis. For $40, sounds like sub-harbor-freight garbage I wouldn't trust further than I could throw it. -Wayne From eric at megageek.com Mon Jul 23 10:49:47 2012 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:49:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck In-Reply-To: <002601cd68e9$ae2966f0$0a7c34d0$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: That makes great sense. I guess I was thinking that this would be a great tool for when you are thinking about buying a car (or mower, or other engine.) If it worked, it would be a quick way to tell if the owner took care of it. So the question then is, could it work for that? Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson "Karl Vacek" Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 07/23/2012 12:43 PM Please respond to KVacek at Ameritech.net To cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck Amen. On the cars, I do 3,000-mile (or annual on the MG and Model T) oil changes, despite running synthetic in the Mustang and Yukon. I doubt that this would show that the oil I'm throwing out is bad. I change the Stearman's oil (4-1/2 gallons at a time) based on running time and season. Because of seasonal changes, I seldom approach the very conservative 25-hour spec that applies but was set in the 1930's, but still send samples to Blackstone every time. They send more than a full sheet of data, which I correlate to my recent maintenance and use/storage pattern to make sure it looks right. A simple good/sorta good/bad display doesn't tell you much about the identity of various particulates, like how much iron, tin, lead, aluminum, zinc, carbon, etc., so it's NOT a substitute for actual oil analysis. Is it better than not testing at all? Maybe, but I don't want to wait to change oil till I see a "bad" reading. Karl -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck Sounds awesome, but also like snake oil. I send samples to Blackstone Labs for analysis. For $40, sounds like sub-harbor-freight garbage I wouldn't trust further than I could throw it. -Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jul 23 11:38:10 2012 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:38:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <358689557.41764.1343065090390.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Haven't sold a car or mower in a while, but if I was going to I'd change the oil before I showed it to anybody. Bob -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ----- Original Message ----- That makes great sense. I guess I was thinking that this would be a great tool for when you are thinking about buying a car (or mower, or other engine.) If it worked, it would be a quick way to tell if the owner took care of it. So the question then is, could it work for that? Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From 57healey at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 12:23:11 2012 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:23:11 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck In-Reply-To: <358689557.41764.1343065090390.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <358689557.41764.1343065090390.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Anyone who would think to change the oil before selling a car or mower probably is the same type person who would maintain it. Patton Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Bob Spidell Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.netDate: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:38:10 To: Cc: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck Haven't sold a car or mower in a while, but if I was going to I'd change the oil before I showed it to anybody. Bob -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ----- Original Message ----- That makes great sense. I guess I was thinking that this would be a great tool for when you are thinking about buying a car (or mower, or other engine.) If it worked, it would be a quick way to tell if the owner took care of it. So the question then is, could it work for that? Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/57healey at gmail.com From jibjib at att.net Mon Jul 23 20:25:42 2012 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 19:25:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck In-Reply-To: <20120723182927.1D46D2D01C2@autox.team.net> References: <358689557.41764.1343065090390.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <20120723182927.1D46D2D01C2@autox.team.net> Message-ID: . . . . or maybe someone who had not changed it for years and wanted it to look ok. Brand new oil in a motor I was looking at would be a red flag. The same as the motor being warm to the touch before I got there, although I usually tell them to leave it cold before I get there so I can see and hear a true cold start. Ok, call me suspicious. . . . . I like Blackstone too. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Patton Dickson Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 11:23 AM To: Bob Spidell; shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net; eric at megageek.com Cc: Shop-Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck Anyone who would think to change the oil before selling a car or mower probably is the same type person who would maintain it. Patton Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Bob Spidell Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.netDate: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:38:10 To: Cc: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Lubricheck Haven't sold a car or mower in a while, but if I was going to I'd change the oil before I showed it to anybody. Bob -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ----- Original Message ----- That makes great sense. I guess I was thinking that this would be a great tool for when you are thinking about buying a car (or mower, or other engine.) If it worked, it would be a quick way to tell if the owner took care of it. So the question then is, could it work for that? Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/57healey at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From jniolon at att.net Wed Jul 25 19:34:24 2012 From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:34:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] cooling fans for rods Message-ID: <9B117B7F9AC643DAA669010A0B9A91D5@john5043a2d406> truck is in the shop (content) I'm in need of a cooling fan. Due to a large blunder my original Spal 16" hipo fan won't fit.. found a Cooling Components, inc fan with nearly identical cfm specs that is an inch thinner... doesn't sound like much until you don't have an inch to fit the spal in.. anyone have any experience with these guys ??? http://www.charlotterod.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=66 thanks John I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Jul 28 08:42:44 2012 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 10:42:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer axles Message-ID: <3E90A153-D7C5-43DD-BE69-D0C5B4FDE0F1@groupwbench.org> I finally dragged my sagged out Pace 4x8 enclosed trailer to the axle place. They said a replacement Torflex is about $300, a spring axle about $150, but labor is $600 (the exiisting axle is welded in.). So to replace it I'm at almost half the cost of the trailer, which is in pretty good shape still. Is there much difference between Torflex and spring axle? I carry everything from small furniture to too many sheets of drywall. One thing I can't see how to get around with a spring axle, is that the existing Torflex has a 22.5 degree upwards articulation, so the floor is nice and low. Seems like a spring would raise things quite a bit unless there's trickery I don't know about. thanks, From shochschild at att.net Sat Jul 28 11:23:40 2012 From: shochschild at att.net (steve hochschild) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 12:23:40 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Trailer axles In-Reply-To: <3E90A153-D7C5-43DD-BE69-D0C5B4FDE0F1@groupwbench.org> References: <3E90A153-D7C5-43DD-BE69-D0C5B4FDE0F1@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <5014201C.60302@att.net> Allow me to be the first to point out that this is a great excuse to buy a plasma cutter! Basically, yes, floor height is the result of the torsion axles, that is their advantage. But i am researching this as well and would like to be educated as to other advantages of the torsion axles setup too. On 7/28/2012 9:42 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I finally dragged my sagged out Pace 4x8 enclosed trailer to the axle place. > They said a replacement Torflex is about $300, a spring axle about $150, but > labor is $600 (the exiisting axle is welded in.). So to replace it I'm at > almost half the cost of the trailer, which is in pretty good shape still. > > Is there much difference between Torflex and spring axle? I carry everything > from small furniture to too many sheets of drywall. One thing I can't see how > to get around with a spring axle, is that the existing Torflex has a 22.5 > degree upwards articulation, so the floor is nice and low. Seems like a spring > would raise things quite a bit unless there's trickery I don't know about. > > thanks, > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From ronnie.day at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 10:46:56 2012 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:46:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT - COTA Aerial Tour Message-ID: Here's (http://tinyurl.com/d5umy73) a nice overview of the new F1 track outside of Austin. The track is just over 80 miles from both where we live now and our new place that we should be moving to by the end of the year. Since we have 10 plus acres just off of an excellent rural highway, maybe we should consider opening a small RV park. Ron From ronnie.day at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 12:21:21 2012 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 13:21:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Bluebird510] OT - COTA Aerial Tour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There's no way a facility of this size and complexity can make it without hosting more than one event per year. I've just been hoping that there will be track days and club events that are more affordable to most of us. I guess we'll see how things develop over the next couple of years. RD On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Dan Heil wrote: > Temporary rv parking for friends. > > There have been some deals to incentivize people to buy the higher priced > grandstand seats with personal seat licenses (PSL). All the other seating > has sold out for the F1 race > So why is that? I'm guessing that right now most attendees are not from > the Dallas, Austin, Huston area. I'm guessing that non-local ticket buyers > aren"t buying a PSL for future "concerts and other events" because it > dorsn' t make sense. Which leaves all the locals to buy them. So get out > your $1000 per seat. > I'm also guessing all the locals will commute to the track and not "camp > out" > > Dan > 250SRX > 510 wagons > On Jul 29, 2012 9:46 AM, "Ronnie Day" wrote: > >> Here's (http://tinyurl.com/d5umy73) a nice overview of the new F1 track >> outside of Austin. The track is just over 80 miles from both where we live >> now and our new place that we should be moving to by the end of the year. >> Since we have 10 plus acres just off of an excellent rural highway, maybe >> we should consider opening a small RV park. >> >> Ron >> >> -- >> NOTICE!!!! >> >> All emails will be sent to the author of this message. If you want to >> send this message to the group simply add this address to the "To" field in >> your email client bluebird510 at googlegroups.com . >> > -- > NOTICE!!!! > > All emails will be sent to the author of this message. If you want to send > this message to the group simply add this address to the "To" field in your > email client bluebird510 at googlegroups.com . From kvacek at ameritech.net Sun Jul 29 12:50:42 2012 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 13:50:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT - COTA Aerial Tour In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002c01cd6dbb$0efa77a0$2cef66e0$@ameritech.net> Interesting - it's designed to be run counter-clockwise... At first I thought it was a mistake in the video, but it continued and then after watching the video I Googled it. Certainly counter-clockwise is the standard on US ovals, but is there another major road course in the US that runs counter-clockwise? Karl -----Original Message----- From: Ronnie Day Subject: [Shop-talk] OT - COTA Aerial Tour Here's (http://tinyurl.com/d5umy73) a nice overview of the new F1 track outside of Austin. The track is just over 80 miles from both where we live now and our new place that we should be moving to by the end of the year. From berry at kerch.com Sun Jul 29 13:49:16 2012 From: berry at kerch.com (Berry Kercheval) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 12:49:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT - COTA Aerial Tour In-Reply-To: <002c01cd6dbb$0efa77a0$2cef66e0$@ameritech.net> References: <002c01cd6dbb$0efa77a0$2cef66e0$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <59167F69-350C-411F-9575-E2621936D9DE@kerch.com> Laguna Seca is counter-clockwise. On Jul 29, 2012, at 11:50 AM, "Karl Vacek" wrote: > Interesting - it's designed to be run counter-clockwise... At first I > thought it was a mistake in the video, but it continued and then after > watching the video I Googled it. > > Certainly counter-clockwise is the standard on US ovals, but is there > another major road course in the US that runs counter-clockwise? > > Karl > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ronnie Day > Subject: [Shop-talk] OT - COTA Aerial Tour > > Here's (http://tinyurl.com/d5umy73) a nice overview of the new F1 track > outside of Austin. The track is just over 80 miles from both where we live > now and our new place that we should be moving to by the end of the year. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/berry at kerch.com From jem at milleredp.com Sun Jul 29 15:21:26 2012 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 14:21:26 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT - COTA Aerial Tour In-Reply-To: <002c01cd6dbb$0efa77a0$2cef66e0$@ameritech.net> References: <002c01cd6dbb$0efa77a0$2cef66e0$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <5015A956.9080703@milleredp.com> > Certainly counter-clockwise is the standard on US ovals, but is there > another major road course in the US that runs counter-clockwise? Let's see...around here Laguna Seca and Thunderhill both run CCW, occasional events run T'hill CW. John. From tputland at charter.net Mon Jul 30 12:56:04 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] is there any such substance.... Message-ID: <503a78c2.1e0219.138d93ec003.Webtop.49@charter.net> ...that will temporarliy keep water from causing rust through? Situation: I have a truck bed that appears to be Rhino lined. I do not know for sure it is has actually been Rhino lined: I put a 3 ton sears jack in the back of the track a couple weeks ago (got the jack and two heavy stands for $40 and the jack works! score). I turned it over so it would not roll around. I did this fairly gently and still got a small chunk of the coating loose. Concern: I am getting rust through spots showing up here and there in the bed. Question: Is there someting I put spray or brush onto the bed to keep this rust from gettting worse? Preferably a clear color.... I will pull the bed, strip it and then properly POR15 it but will not be able to until spring next year. I just need to keep it from getting worse in the meantime. This truck is and will be a driver until the snow (and salt) start to fly. thanks! tim From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jul 30 13:33:01 2012 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:33:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] is there any such substance.... In-Reply-To: <503a78c2.1e0219.138d93ec003.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <2010772479.301747.1343676781455.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I've had good results with LPS-3. Bob -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ----- Original Message ----- ...that will temporarliy keep water from causing rust through? Situation: I have a truck bed that appears to be Rhino lined. I do not know for sure it is has actually been Rhino lined: I put a 3 ton sears jack in the back of the track a couple weeks ago (got the jack and two heavy stands for $40 and the jack works! score). I turned it over so it would not roll around. I did this fairly gently and still got a small chunk of the coating loose. Concern: I am getting rust through spots showing up here and there in the bed. Question: Is there someting I put spray or brush onto the bed to keep this rust from gettting worse? Preferably a clear color.... I will pull the bed, strip it and then properly POR15 it but will not be able to until spring next year. I just need to keep it from getting worse in the meantime. This truck is and will be a driver until the snow (and salt) start to fly. thanks! tim From bspidell at comcast.net Mon Jul 30 13:34:08 2012 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:34:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] is there any such substance.... In-Reply-To: <503a78c2.1e0219.138d93ec003.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <1280440209.301782.1343676848690.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/corrosion_pg/LPS3.html -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ----- Original Message ----- ...that will temporarliy keep water from causing rust through? Situation: I have a truck bed that appears to be Rhino lined. I do not know for sure it is has actually been Rhino lined: I put a 3 ton sears jack in the back of the track a couple weeks ago (got the jack and two heavy stands for $40 and the jack works! score). I turned it over so it would not roll around. I did this fairly gently and still got a small chunk of the coating loose. Concern: I am getting rust through spots showing up here and there in the bed. Question: Is there someting I put spray or brush onto the bed to keep this rust from gettting worse? Preferably a clear color.... I will pull the bed, strip it and then properly POR15 it but will not be able to until spring next year. I just need to keep it from getting worse in the meantime. This truck is and will be a driver until the snow (and salt) start to fly. thanks! tim From tputland at charter.net Mon Jul 30 13:41:27 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 15:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] is there any such substance.... Message-ID: <335e4b69.1e0cbe.138d9684bcb.Webtop.49@charter.net> Thanks! I love this list! On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Bob Spidell wrote: http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/corrosion_pg/LPS3.html -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ___________________________________ ...that will temporarliy keep water from causing rust through? Situation: I have a truck bed that appears to be Rhino lined. I do not know for sure it is has actually been Rhino lined: I put a 3 ton sears jack in the back of the track a couple weeks ago (got the jack and two heavy stands for $40 and the jack works! score). I turned it over so it would not roll around. I did this fairly gently and still got a small chunk of the coating loose. Concern: I am getting rust through spots showing up here and there in the bed. Question: Is there someting I put spray or brush onto the bed to keep this rust from gettting worse? Preferably a clear color.... I will pull the bed, strip it and then properly POR15 it but will not be able to until spring next year. I just need to keep it from getting worse in the meantime. This truck is and will be a driver until the snow (and salt) start to fly. thanks! tim From mgowen55 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 30 15:26:47 2012 From: mgowen55 at hotmail.com (Glenn Owen) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:26:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Roof Waterproof Membrane Advice.... Message-ID: I am building a low pitch (about 1/12) shed roof that I plan to put shingles on (about 350 square feet). I'm located in the deep south. Because of the low pitch I have been looking at using a waterproof membrane instead of felt. In particular I have been considering GAF WeatherWatch & StormGuard available at Home Depot for a price of $51 for 150 square feet of coverage. I'm probably going to have to do the install without a helper. Has anybody had experience with this stuff or other recommendations? Thanks for the help. Glenn From parkanzky at gmail.com Mon Jul 30 15:43:13 2012 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:43:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] is there any such substance.... In-Reply-To: <335e4b69.1e0cbe.138d9684bcb.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <335e4b69.1e0cbe.138d9684bcb.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: A very similar discussion was just happening on a car forum I frequent and several people (one who owns plow/salt trucks) highly recommended a product called "Chassis Saver." They said that it's not cheap, but works much better than POR15. -Paul On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Tim wrote: > Thanks! I love this list! > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Bob Spidell wrote: > > > http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/corrosion_pg/LPS3.html > > -------------------------------- > Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA > > ___________________________________ > > > ...that will temporarliy keep water from causing rust through? > > Situation: I have a truck bed that appears to be Rhino lined. I do not > know for sure it is has actually been Rhino lined: I put a 3 ton sears > jack in the back of the track a couple weeks ago (got the jack and two > heavy stands for $40 and the jack works! score). I turned it over so it > would not roll around. I did this fairly gently and still got a small > chunk of the coating loose. > > Concern: I am getting rust through spots showing up here and there in > the bed. > > Question: Is there someting I put spray or brush onto the bed to keep > this rust from gettting worse? Preferably a clear color.... > > I will pull the bed, strip it and then properly POR15 it but will not be > able to until spring next year. I just need to keep it from getting > worse in the meantime. This truck is and will be a driver until the snow > (and salt) start to fly. > > thanks! > tim From kvacek at ameritech.net Mon Jul 30 16:42:08 2012 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:42:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Roof Waterproof Membrane Advice.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002601cd6ea4$8d743eb0$a85cbc10$@ameritech.net> I've always preferred W R Grace's Ice and Water Shield, which used to come in a lower and premium grade. To my knowledge, it was the first such product, and it's really strong and tenacious. Looking at their site just now, I see that they've expanded their line with a number of additional products, including high-temperature products that might be better-suited to your application. Not that the Chicago area doesn't see terrible temperatures in the summer... The stuff I use is not granulated. I've also used the GAF Weather Watch granulated product, and it's been OK -- no complaints. However, when re-roofing last time I had a succession of several roofers (why is that business home to so many crooks?) and the first guy used GAF Weather Watch despite having signed a contract to use the Grace product. I fired him for that and maybe 7 or 8 other things. During the roofing period, actually between him and the next crook, I also had the house painted, and the painters walked on the GAF stuff. It oozed and was really slimy compared to the Grace stuff, which was only applied in a few areas at that time. The GAF has bitumen and granules on the top surface - the Grace is a sandwich of 3 layers each bitumen and polyethylene, with the top surface being thick polyethylene. That construction really seals to nails, screws, etc. that are driven through it, and it doesn't track up when walked on, though it is slick when wet and/or cold. I don't know how well the GAF compares in sealing, but I suspect it's not nearly as strong. The GAF material tears while the Grace just stretches and stretches. Karl -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Owen Subject: [Shop-talk] Roof Waterproof Membrane Advice.... I am building a low pitch (about 1/12) shed roof that I plan to put shingles on (about 350 square feet). I'm located in the deep south. Because of the low pitch I have been looking at using a waterproof membrane instead of felt. In particular I have been considering GAF WeatherWatch & StormGuard available at Home Depot for a price of $51 for 150 square feet of coverage. I'm probably going to have to do the install without a helper. Has anybody had experience with this stuff or other recommendations? Thanks for the help. Glenn From bk13 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 30 17:02:29 2012 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:02:29 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Roof Waterproof Membrane Advice.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50171285.5080400@earthlink.net> Glen - You may want to check the warranty for the shingles. That may be too shallow a pitch. I had a carport roof where they did a torch-down of roll roofing. It had the same tan color as the shingles on the house, so looked like it belonged. You may consider having some local roofers give you some bids. I found some of the roofers were very competitive and well worth the money. My carport was 12' x 20' and cost about $400 in 10 years ago in the Los Angeles, CA area. I walked on it several times a year and it was fine. I ended up using a referral from a local roofing supply company. They also gave me several samples so I could look at full shingles on the roof and had a better selection and prices than Home Depot. (Pacific Supply, Gardena, CA) The torch-down product also didn't have all the nails coming through the roof sheeting. That may also be a consideration if you plan to store things near the underside of the shed roof. Brian On 7/30/2012 2:26 PM, Glenn Owen wrote: > I am building a low pitch (about 1/12) shed roof that I plan to put shingles > on (about 350 square feet). I'm located in the deep south. > > Because of the low pitch I have been looking at using a waterproof membrane > instead of felt. In particular I have been considering GAF WeatherWatch & > StormGuard available at Home Depot for a price of $51 for 150 square feet of > coverage. I'm probably going to have to do the install without a helper. > > Has anybody had experience with this stuff or other recommendations? > > Thanks for the help. > Glenn > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From ejrussell at mebtel.net Mon Jul 30 18:54:59 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:54:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] is there any such substance.... In-Reply-To: <335e4b69.1e0cbe.138d9684bcb.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <335e4b69.1e0cbe.138d9684bcb.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <122B525050174DC5B4337663E9594EF7@EricJRussellPC> And Canadians can eat off it... "Acceptable for use in Canadian Food Processing Establishments" Eric Russell Mebane, NC > http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/corrosion_pg/LPS3.html From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jul 30 19:12:49 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:12:49 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] is there any such substance.... In-Reply-To: <122B525050174DC5B4337663E9594EF7@EricJRussellPC> References: <335e4b69.1e0cbe.138d9684bcb.Webtop.49@charter.net> <122B525050174DC5B4337663E9594EF7@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Eric J Russell wrote: > And Canadians can eat off it... > > "Acceptable for use in Canadian Food Processing Establishments" > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > >> http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/corrosion_pg/LPS3.html > Probably not. It's got NSF H2 registration, which is the category class for lubricants that aren't to come in to contact with food. H1 is the category class for lubricants that might have incidental contact with food (like machines might drip them on food, if a seal starts weeping). H3 is for stuff that will almost certainly come in contact with food, and is basically food oils. A whole lot of stuff is H2 rated, simply because it's not that hard a standard to reach, and you can't sell into food plants unless you meet the standard. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From lists at dinospider.com Tue Jul 31 11:57:01 2012 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 10:57:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue Message-ID: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> 2 years ago I bought a concrete mixer from Home Depot and I used it quite a bit for a month or so, no issues then it sat for 2 years. Last week I used it again, no issues. This Saturday and again last night I used it again and it was a pain to use. The concrete was sticking/drying to the bottom of the drum like crazy and I kept having to turn it off and using a garden trowel, scrape the bottom of the drum. I tried different things, putting plenty of water in first then the concrete (I used 90lb. bags), putting in half bags and water and then the last half and no matter what I was getting 2-3" of semi dry concrete stuck on the bottom. Too much water just made a mess and it stayed on the bottom and not enough water of course that was no good. The bottom of the barrel is finally losing all its paint and is down to the bare metal and my daughter's boyfriend suggested maybe it was that, he used to work in a ice rink and said that they had to wax the inside of the Zamboni drum or the ice would stick, he thought I needed to repaint the inside of the drum or wax it, I have never heard of that but I have never had this problem. Mixing the 8 90lb. bags took almost twice as long as normal with the way the concrete was semi-drying/clumping in the bottom. The only think I can think of is that the bags sat in the hot sun all day and the concrete was hot as I put it in the mixer...but enough water should have solved that problem I would think. Any ideas...I have more crete to pour. Shop Content, I am making a new pizza oven to keep my shop mates happy when they come help in the shop. From drew at DasRogges.com Tue Jul 31 13:32:18 2012 From: drew at DasRogges.com (Drew Rogge) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:32:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lag screws vs. through bolting Message-ID: <501832C2.6010807@DasRogges.com> I'm installing some cable railing on a new deck, unlike the wood railing on my shop deck, and have been through bolting some 1/4" stainless steel plates to the facia to hold the posts. Hasn't been too bad. I'm bolting through 3/4" ipa and 1 1/4 PT using 3/8" SS bolts. Bolts are coming in at about $1.00 apiece. I've just encountered a section of the deck where I would need to bolt through either 4 1/4" or 6 3/4 inches. I expect the cost of the bolts to be pretty high and was wondering if there would be much difference in strength if I used say, 4" lag screws instead. Anybody have any experience with doing this? Drew From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Tue Jul 31 14:33:57 2012 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:33:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> References: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> Message-ID: <005301cd6f5b$d04a26c0$70de7440$@cablespeed.com> Snowplow drivers spray their blades with some "brew" of diesel fuel and old motor oil....not sure what that would do to the concrete. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jul 31 14:53:54 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:53:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> References: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> Message-ID: <501845E2.8010502@gmail.com> I cannot help at all with your issue (sorry), but I'd love to know more about the pizza oven project. I'd like to put one out by the pool. You documenting the project online or anything? On 7/31/2012 1:57 PM, Mike Rambour wrote: > 2 years ago I bought a concrete mixer from Home Depot and I used it > quite a bit for a month or so, no issues then it sat for 2 years. > Last week I used it again, no issues. This Saturday and again last > night I used it again and it was a pain to use. The concrete was > sticking/drying to the bottom of the drum like crazy and I kept having > to turn it off and using a garden trowel, scrape the bottom of the drum. > > I tried different things, putting plenty of water in first then the > concrete (I used 90lb. bags), putting in half bags and water and then > the last half and no matter what I was getting 2-3" of semi dry > concrete stuck on the bottom. Too much water just made a mess and it > stayed on the bottom and not enough water of course that was no good. > > The bottom of the barrel is finally losing all its paint and is down > to the bare metal and my daughter's boyfriend suggested maybe it was > that, he used to work in a ice rink and said that they had to wax the > inside of the Zamboni drum or the ice would stick, he thought I needed > to repaint the inside of the drum or wax it, I have never heard of > that but I have never had this problem. > > Mixing the 8 90lb. bags took almost twice as long as normal with the > way the concrete was semi-drying/clumping in the bottom. The only > think I can think of is that the bags sat in the hot sun all day and > the concrete was hot as I put it in the mixer...but enough water > should have solved that problem I would think. Any ideas...I have > more crete to pour. > > Shop Content, I am making a new pizza oven to keep my shop mates > happy when they come help in the shop. From darrellw360 at mac.com Tue Jul 31 14:58:19 2012 From: darrellw360 at mac.com (Darrell Walker) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:58:19 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: <005301cd6f5b$d04a26c0$70de7440$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: On Jul 31, 2012, at 01:33 PM, Gerald Brazil wrote: Snowplow drivers spray their blades with some "brew" of diesel fuel and old motor oil....not sure what that would do to the concrete. Many years ago my dad managed a rental yard, and one thing they had were trailers that you could get filled with freshly mixed concrete. They would spray them with oil, perhaps just for rust prevention, but perhaps also to help the concrete slide out. The trailers had a jack that would lift the bed to dump into a wheelbarrow. Very handy for jobs that needed less than a full cement mixer. -Darrell From lists at dinospider.com Tue Jul 31 15:02:15 2012 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:02:15 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: <501845E2.8010502@gmail.com> References: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> <501845E2.8010502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <501847D7.5020003@dinospider.com> On 07/31/2012 01:53 PM, Scott wrote: > I cannot help at all with your issue (sorry), but I'd love to know > more about the pizza oven project. I'd like to put one out by the > pool. You documenting the project online or anything? > Sorry, no info on my problem gets you no info on my pizza oven :) I am not yet documenting the project online, I did document the last oven at http://www.firewoodpizza.com/original.html* *and I will be putting this one up on the same website, right now I am still building and taking lots of pictures. I am going to go to a CMS on the website so I can enter pictures and text easier from my phone as I work. Right now, the base is finished as of last night, I have several dozen pictures that I will be putting up on the website soon. I bought a real brick oven this time, not a concrete oven as listed at that website. I was going to build my own brick oven from scratch but I figure buying it cost me maybe $700 more and saved me 2-3 months of time (I only work weekends on it). mike From lists at dinospider.com Tue Jul 31 15:04:06 2012 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:04:06 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50184846.5010107@dinospider.com> I did that for the base, I used cart-crete for the base but not for the rest of the work as it took less concrete than they are will to put on cart-crete. mike On 07/31/2012 01:58 PM, Darrell Walker wrote: > > > On Jul 31, 2012, at 01:33 PM, Gerald Brazil > wrote: > >> Snowplow drivers spray their blades with some "brew" of diesel fuel >> and old >> motor oil....not sure what that would do to the concrete. > > Many years ago my dad managed a rental yard, and one thing they had > were trailers that you could get filled with freshly mixed concrete. > They would spray them with oil, perhaps just for rust prevention, but > perhaps also to help the concrete slide out. The trailers had a jack > that would lift the bed to dump into a wheelbarrow. Very handy for > jobs that needed less than a full cement mixer. > > -Darrell From peterwmurray at gmail.com Tue Jul 31 15:18:12 2012 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:18:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: <50184846.5010107@dinospider.com> References: <50184846.5010107@dinospider.com> Message-ID: A friend of mine here in the DC area built an oven based loosely on the plans at Forno Bravo. http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/pompeii_oven.html The pizza, calzones and bread that come out of oven are absolutely excellent. The type of flour used is important - and once you have one of these, you will definitely start buying it in larger quantities. ObShop: We used a red Harbor Freight "My first mixer" for the concrete - I can not imagine trying to hand-mix those 20 bags of quick-crete! I do find it amusing that Home Depot staff has no trouble helping you overload their hourly rental trucks. -Peter On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Rambour wrote: > I did that for the base, I used cart-crete for the base but not for the > rest of the work as it took less concrete than they are will to put on > cart-crete. > > mike > > > On 07/31/2012 01:58 PM, Darrell Walker wrote: >> >> >> >> On Jul 31, 2012, at 01:33 PM, Gerald Brazil >> wrote: >> >>> Snowplow drivers spray their blades with some "brew" of diesel fuel and >>> old >>> motor oil....not sure what that would do to the concrete. >> >> >> Many years ago my dad managed a rental yard, and one thing they had were >> trailers that you could get filled with freshly mixed concrete. They would >> spray them with oil, perhaps just for rust prevention, but perhaps also to >> help the concrete slide out. The trailers had a jack that would lift the >> bed to dump into a wheelbarrow. Very handy for jobs that needed less than a >> full cement mixer. >> >> -Darrell > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com From lists at dinospider.com Tue Jul 31 15:30:31 2012 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:30:31 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: References: <50184846.5010107@dinospider.com> Message-ID: <50184E77.4040505@dinospider.com> 2 of my friends have built the Pompeii from Forno Bravo, its a lot of work, nothing hard, not rocket science but very time consuming, I decided I did not have the time as I have plenty of other projects. I agree, typo 00 flour is required. mike On 07/31/2012 02:18 PM, Peter Murray wrote: > > A friend of mine here in the DC area built an oven based loosely on > the plans at Forno Bravo. > http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/pompeii_oven.html > > > The pizza, calzones and bread that come out of oven are absolutely > excellent. The type of flour used is important - and once you have one > of these, you will definitely start buying it in larger quantities. From bk13 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 15:57:36 2012 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:57:36 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lag screws vs. through bolting In-Reply-To: <501832C2.6010807@DasRogges.com> References: <501832C2.6010807@DasRogges.com> Message-ID: <501854D0.2070901@earthlink.net> Drew - I am also getting ready to install a cable rail system on my balcony. I am doing fascia mount posts with 3/8" lag bolts because I have a waterproof surface. The railing supplier should have technical drawings that specify the attachment requirements to meet the code required loading. If you have a city building department, they should also be able to tell you the requirements. In my case, using lags requires me to have a backing 2x8 behind my fascia board so I am screwing into a double thickness of boards. If I used nuts and bolts, I could get by with just the fascia board by itself. I am in a high fire danger area, so the city requires that the underside of decks and balconies be covered, preventing future access to nuts if I ever needed to change or tighten the railing posts. Brian On 7/31/2012 12:32 PM, Drew Rogge wrote: > I'm installing some cable railing on a new deck, unlike the wood > railing on my shop deck, > and have been through bolting some 1/4" stainless steel plates to the > facia to hold the > posts. Hasn't been too bad. I'm bolting through 3/4" ipa and 1 1/4 PT > using 3/8" SS bolts. > Bolts are coming in at about $1.00 apiece. I've just encountered a > section of the deck > where I would need to bolt through either 4 1/4" or 6 3/4 inches. I > expect the cost of > the bolts to be pretty high and was wondering if there would be much > difference in strength > if I used say, 4" lag screws instead. Anybody have any experience with > doing this? > > Drew > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From lists at dinospider.com Tue Jul 31 16:07:55 2012 From: lists at dinospider.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:07:55 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: <501845E2.8010502@gmail.com> References: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> <501845E2.8010502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5018573B.7000001@dinospider.com> On 07/31/2012 01:53 PM, Scott wrote: > I cannot help at all with your issue (sorry), but I'd love to know > more about the pizza oven project. I'd like to put one out by the > pool. You documenting the project online or anything? > just for you http://www.firewoodpizza.com/construction_classico.html major work in progress, I just dump my cell phone pics to do this page, I have better pics in my camera. I expect to place the oven early next week, one more concrete pour first. mike From ejrussell at mebtel.net Tue Jul 31 18:36:37 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:36:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> References: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> Message-ID: Would a cooking spray help? http://www.pamcookingspray.com/ So, where is this shop with a pizza located? How can we come by to help (eat the pizza) if we don't know where it is located? Eric Russell Mebane, NC > The bottom of the barrel is finally losing all its paint > Any ideas...I have more crete to pour. > > Shop Content, I am making a new pizza oven to keep my shop mates happy > when they come help in the shop. From jamesf at groupwbench.org Tue Jul 31 19:36:58 2012 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 21:36:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Exterior nighttime surveillance cameras? Message-ID: <7984298D-9820-476B-BBBB-C6991D67FA0A@groupwbench.org> I'm interested in recording any movement such as kids driving by my mailbox with a baseball bat I mean seeing what wildlife comes through my yard at night. Ideally it would be motion sensor activated but with a very short delay, and quick recovery from headlights. Anything you use and like? thanks, From bk13 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 31 20:54:21 2012 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:54:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Exterior nighttime surveillance cameras? In-Reply-To: <7984298D-9820-476B-BBBB-C6991D67FA0A@groupwbench.org> References: <7984298D-9820-476B-BBBB-C6991D67FA0A@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <50189A5D.3000508@earthlink.net> Jim, Check http://www.newegg.com/Store/Category.aspx?Category=288&name=Security-Surveillance or http://www.newegg.com Home & Outdoors > Electrical > Security & Surveillance > and http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.aspx?cat=4802&eCat=BC|90607|4802&lang=en-US&whse=BC&topnav= or http://www.costco.com > electronics > home security & surveillance for some sample systems. Amazon also has a bunch with reviews so you can fine out what others are saying. Security cameras are a very big market. If you want to go really low end, Harbor Freight has some cheap cameras. I bought Item #95914 for $40, but the quality was so bad I returned it the next day. They have item #68332 which is a full system for $300 with a bunch of reviews. Note that night vision distance claims are often a stretch. If it says it can see 60 feet with night vision, that you can see "something", perhaps see the difference between a human and a dog, but not much more. With a DVR and some cameras and you can see the basics. Spend a couple hundred extra dollars and you can get a high power night vision camera that can read a front license plate between the headlights at 50 feet. My neighbors installed one after someone broke in their car and stole a generator. It all depends on what you want to spend. You can also put a video capture card in your computer and connect a camera, but you have to leave the computer on. I don't have a current recommendation as my previous card is years obsolete. I used it with a wireless baby monitor camera to capture the trash truck breaking branches off my tree safter they denied that their driver would ever even have part of his truck on my property. Quality was low, but the trash truck was big and slow. Systems are much better now. The motion activated recording has a sensitivity adjustment. You will need to balance between tree branches blowing in the wind and the wildlife zipping down the street. You can also set a detection zone (rectangle on the screen) where the system looks for the motion to trigger recording. I'd go more towards having extra junk recorded than miss the important critter. If you are serious on identifying wildlife at a specific location like your mailbox, you may want multiple cameras - one for a side view to capture the profile, and one to look for a tag on the back. A third going for the face might help further identify the critter. A bunch of houses down the hill from me now have 2" galvanized pipes planted a few inches before the mailboxes. The caution with something like this is to not make it too solid to avoid liability if a car slide on a wet road and the post didn't give way. Good luck. Let me know what you end up with as I'm in the market for a system after I catch up on other projects. I expect I'll get one on sale from Costco. If buying today, I'd probably get Item # 550442 and add a few specialty cameras. Brian in Lost Angeles On 7/31/2012 6:36 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I'm interested in recording any movement such as kids driving by my mailbox > with a baseball bat I mean seeing what wildlife comes through my yard at > night. Ideally it would be motion sensor activated but with a very short > delay, and quick recovery from headlights. Anything you use and like? > > thanks, > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jul 31 21:08:17 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:08:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Exterior nighttime surveillance cameras? In-Reply-To: <7984298D-9820-476B-BBBB-C6991D67FA0A@groupwbench.org> References: <7984298D-9820-476B-BBBB-C6991D67FA0A@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <50189DA1.10509@gmail.com> My old office had night vision cameras. They were very, very expensive. Given that office manager's ability to spend way too much money and get virtually nothing, I'm not sure if they were good cameras. The vendor said they were the best, but he needed to keep telling the Emperor she had nice clothes. Having said all that, you couldn't see jack on those cameras at night. You could see *shapes*, and maybe some detail if they were very close, but there's no way you could identify anything. Certainly not a license plate, even if it was still. People here build brick mailboxes. A while back, someone went around pushing them over. I've seen a couple being rebuilt with poles in them. One was using what looked like a telephone pole, one used what looked like several chain-link fence poles, and there was an auger out there one day, so I assume they're sunk pretty deep. I think if I had concerns, I'd find a telephone pole and sink it maybe six feet deep. It's real easy to identify a hoodlum as the ambulance is carrying them off and you can take their i.d. from their wallet after their pants are cut off them. Scott (Getting more and more curmudgeonly by the day, it seems) On 7/31/2012 9:36 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I'm interested in recording any movement such as kids driving by my mailbox > with a baseball bat I mean seeing what wildlife comes through my yard at > night. Ideally it would be motion sensor activated but with a very short > delay, and quick recovery from headlights. Anything you use and like? From cavanadd at frontier.com Tue Jul 31 21:42:27 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (Dave C) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:42:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] concrete mixer issue In-Reply-To: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> References: <50181C6D.7030501@dinospider.com> Message-ID: <5018A5A3.1090400@frontier.com> I have a Harbor Freight mixer, probably the same as yours or similar. Mine does the same thing sometimes. I was mixing up 60 pound bags last week to set some posts for a lumber rack and after the first batch (2 60# bags) I noticed it sticking to the bottom. I just stopped it, dug it off the bottom with a shovel, rotated it 180* and dug the rest off, and turned it back on. I was only mixing six bags so it wasn't a huge deal but it is kind of a PITA. Next time I'll probably use my sharpshooter shovel. I think if I dumped all the concrete mix (dry) into one wheelbarrow and then shoveled it into the mixer while it was running, shoveling a little and then adding a little water, it would probably work better, but that's just as much trouble. Sorry, no pizza oven comments. On 7/31/2012 10:57 AM, Mike Rambour wrote: > 2 years ago I bought a concrete mixer from Home Depot and I used it > quite a bit for a month or so, no issues then it sat for 2 years. Last > week I used it again, no issues. This Saturday and again last night I > used it again and it was a pain to use. The concrete was > sticking/drying to the bottom of the drum like crazy and I kept having > to turn it off and using a garden trowel, scrape the bottom of the drum.