From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Sun Jan 1 20:54:16 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 22:54:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding table Message-ID: <4F012A68.3090702@gmail.com> I found a welding table locally today. Half-inch thick steel plate top, big steel column leg, smaller plate foot. The top's about 4' x 5'. I'm in love with it already. But I have questions, and they've got to be in the list's wheelhouse: 1) The column has a few 'stringers' supporting the top, but over time the top has sagged ever-so-slightly on the long axis. Maybe a half inch on either end. Really probably not enough to worry about...but where's the fun in that? I'm thinking: A) flip it over on the concrete slab floor, heat it with the torch, let it sit for a month or two and see if it improves. Repeat if it seems to be working. B) Find the two thickest square-section steel/iron beams I can get and clamp them across the table and try to pull the ends up to flat. This seemed like the better idea until I worried that I might very well end up just smashing down the middle rather than pulling up the ends. I thought when I got it to flat, I'd weld some beams under the table to try and keep it that way. I'd like to not have the beams right on the edges so I can clamp stuff on the edge. 2) The table I learned to weld on was an old robotics table, about 1.5 inch thick steel, drilled and tapped every few inches for the clamps we used to hold stuff on the mill table. I'd like to drill and tap the top on mine in a similar fashion, but I've only got a half inch of thickness to work with. Any reason I shouldn't weld nuts under the table after drilling and tapping (I'm thinking mostly corrosion issues, but what do I care if the nut corrodes more to the table?) 3) The same table had a lug on a leg that we kept the lead attached to permanently. It was very nice to set the workpiece on the table and be able to have at it. My new table seems to be all-steel and I'd think I could do something similar, but should I trust the 'connectivity' of the whole table? Should I weld a lug to the underside of the tabletop and run a cable down to the base? 4) It's Florida. It stays 100% humid at all times. I want to paint everything but the top, and I'd like to keep that part fairly decent. Any suggestions for a good battleship-tough high-heat paint and for anything I should use on the top? Any sort of oil seems like a bad idea. Seriously, this thing is better than any of the stuff I got for Christmas. It has to weigh 700-800 lbs at least. I'm not sure I could have bought the top for what I paid for the whole thing. It's awesome. :-) Thanks. Scott From ejrussell at mebtel.net Mon Jan 2 18:52:27 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 20:52:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding table Message-ID: <20120102205227.hesnm6g9js7c4owo@webmail2.centurytel.net> > the top has sagged ever-so-slightly on the long axis. Maybe a half inch > on either end. Either my email isn't working or there haven't been any replies. If the latter here goes mine. I think you need to apply some force to oppose the bend. Can the top be removed and flipped over? Or prop up the sagging ends and apply an opposing force to push the bow down. (hydraulic jack and a stout post against a garage door header?) If you try your idea of a clamping a beam along the top to pull the bow out you again need to over-pull it to take the bend out. Place a solid block in the middle then clamp down the ends to pull the bow out. Just laying it down on a flat floor and applying some heat won't do it. You need to bend it the other way almost as much as it is bent now to allow for spring back. As for threaded holes for hold down jigs - I'd think threads in 1/2 thick steel would be quite strong. You are wanting to simply hold things still - not bend heavy parts. If you bolt your ground clamp to the top will that make your welder less portable? And does that matter to you? Or do you have an extra ground cable that would simply plug into the welder? No good ideas about paint. Obviously you can't paint the top and even the underside of the top might not hold paint for long if you are welding directly on it. The legs should be fine with a coat or two of enamel. Eric Russell Mebane, NC From mark at bradakis.com Mon Jan 2 22:23:59 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 22:23:59 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor Message-ID: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> I need to replace a failed oxygen sensor in my old S10. Should be a simple task - fat chance! There's just so little clearance that when I do get a wrench or socket securely on it there's no way to get enough torque applied to break it loose. Heat, penetrent in various combinations and cycles have not made it any easier. Sheesh. Sorry, I just had to vent. mjb. From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jan 2 22:52:33 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 00:52:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <0LX700FY8KD3L360@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Mark, What tool are you using to attempt this? There are a number of different styles of sockets, and sometimes one works where the other doesn't. I bought this "Alltrade 648625 Oxygen Sensor Socket Tool Set" at Amazon for $27. The flatter one fit where the others wouldn't. I wasn't working on an S10, so as they say, YMMV. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 12:23 AM 1/3/2012, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >I need to replace a failed oxygen sensor in my old S10. Should be >a simple task - fat chance! There's just so little clearance that when I >do get a wrench or socket securely on it there's no way to get enough >torque applied to break it loose. Heat, penetrent in various combinations >and cycles have not made it any easier. Sheesh. > >Sorry, I just had to vent. > >mjb. >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Jan 3 04:54:59 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 06:54:59 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Did you use heat, or just warmth? My mini oxy-actylene setup has worked incredibly well at loosening stuck nuts and bolts. (I use it for that much more than actual welding.) You have to get get the stuck parts actually glowing red hot. Doug On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > I need to replace a failed oxygen sensor in my old S10. Should be > a simple task - fat chance! There's just so little clearance that when I > do get a wrench or socket securely on it there's no way to get enough > torque applied to break it loose. Heat, penetrent in various combinations > and cycles have not made it any easier. Sheesh. > > Sorry, I just had to vent. From marka at maracing.com Tue Jan 3 07:19:21 2012 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 09:19:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Howdy, On Mon, 2 Jan 2012, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > I need to replace a failed oxygen sensor in my old S10. Should be a > simple task - fat chance! There's just so little clearance that when I > do get a wrench or socket securely on it there's no way to get enough > torque applied to break it loose. Heat, penetrent in various > combinations and cycles have not made it any easier. Sheesh. > > Sorry, I just had to vent. Been there with our old Chevy Venture van. Obviously a completely different layout than your S10, but in the end I took off the front upper motor mount and tilted the engine forward, plus found a combination of tools to get to the o2 sensor. Which might actually help... The parts stores around me had a couple completely different o2 sensor removal tools. That let me try different approaches. Mark From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 07:49:18 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 09:49:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> I feel your pain. My wife's New Beetle is the first car I've ever worked on that I wasn't actually sure I could repair. It literally became an issue that my hands couldn't fit between the frame member and the engine to access stuff. When I asked online and at the dealer, they say stuff like, "Yeah, we have to give it to a tech that can get his hands in there." And I used to think Mazda was just punishing the Americans for Hiroshima. They're nothing compared to that Beetle. I guess everyone must have that One Car That Beat Them (Almost). On 1/3/2012 12:23 AM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > I need to replace a failed oxygen sensor in my old S10. Should be > a simple task - fat chance! There's just so little clearance that when I > do get a wrench or socket securely on it there's no way to get enough > torque applied to break it loose. Heat, penetrent in various > combinations > and cycles have not made it any easier. Sheesh. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 08:17:04 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 10:17:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding table In-Reply-To: <20120102205227.hesnm6g9js7c4owo@webmail2.centurytel.net> References: <20120102205227.hesnm6g9js7c4owo@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: <4F031BF0.3050401@gmail.com> On 1/2/2012 8:52 PM, ejrussell at mebtel.net wrote: > Either my email isn't working or there haven't been any replies. Me neither, but sometimes I don't see 100% of the posts. I always tend to suspect I've messed up a setting on my end. :-) > I think you need to apply some force to oppose the bend. Can the top > be removed and flipped over? Or prop up the sagging ends and apply an > opposing force to push the bow down. (hydraulic jack and a stout post > against a garage door header?) If you try your idea of a clamping a > beam along the top to pull the bow out you again need to over-pull it > to take the bend out. Place a solid block in the middle then clamp > down the ends to pull the bow out. Just laying it down on a flat > floor and applying some heat won't do it. You need to bend it the > other way almost as much as it is bent now to allow for spring back. I can flip the whole table, but I thought after I got it straight, I'd weld some supports to the table top to keep it flat. I can't imagine there's ever any way I'll be able to bend it in the opposite direction enough to keep it flat on its own. > As for threaded holes for hold down jigs - I'd think threads in 1/2 > thick steel would be quite strong. You are wanting to simply hold > things still - not bend heavy parts. Just hold stuff still while welding, not bend them. Well, maybe 'bend' them a fraction of an inch to true, but I think the tabletop itself will usually be able to accomplish that. This is more that I used to be able to stand on a two-foot wrench on a bolt on the old table and it wouldn't even budge. I'd like to re-create something like that--massive overkill. I want my great-grandkids' grandkids to be able to wop on one of those hold-down bolts and have it not wiggle at all. We could use that table as a surface plate and if anything was out a little, we'd crank it until the parts mated, tack them, run a bead, and it was good. I probably won't ever get *that* flat, but I can at least get the rest of it. I don't want any of those holes stripping, ever. If I have to devote a month to welding nuts on the underside of the table, so be it. Alternatively, if anyone ever comes across a 4' x 4' hunk of 1.5"-thick (or thicker) plate and you don't think you want it, give me a call. > If you bolt your ground clamp to the top will that make your welder > less portable? And does that matter to you? Or do you have an extra > ground cable that would simply plug into the welder? I will have an extra lead to devote solely to the table. And on the new shop, I'm going to run that lead in a conduit through the slab so I don't trip on it. > No good ideas about paint. Obviously you can't paint the top and even > the underside of the top might not hold paint for long if you are > welding directly on it. Yeah...I'm thinking the tabletop itself will have to be bare and I'll just wipe it down a lot. I guess I'll see how far I can paint up the leg before the paint starts to get destroyed by the heat. I'd imagine I could go to the top--I probably won't be welding that near the center of the table (where the leg attaches) anyway. On the other hand, 1/2" of steel might carry away enough heat that the underside could take paint. I don't know. And it's not like I'll be welding battleship armor on it, even if I want the table to be built for it. From pj_thomas at comcast.net Tue Jan 3 09:25:45 2012 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:25:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> On 1/3/2012 9:49 AM, Scott wrote: > I feel your pain. My wife's New Beetle is the first car I've ever > worked on that I wasn't actually sure I could repair. It literally > became an issue that my hands couldn't fit between the frame member > and the engine to access stuff. When I asked online and at the dealer, > they say stuff like, "Yeah, we have to give it to a tech that can get > his hands in there." > > And I used to think Mazda was just punishing the Americans for > Hiroshima. They're nothing compared to that Beetle. > > I guess everyone must have that One Car That Beat Them (Almost). First car was a 64 Ford Futura Falcon with a straight 6. I found it easier to climb into the engine compartment and sit on the frame, rather than reaching over the fender all the way to the engine. Peter T > > On 1/3/2012 12:23 AM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >> I need to replace a failed oxygen sensor in my old S10. Should be >> a simple task - fat chance! There's just so little clearance that when I >> do get a wrench or socket securely on it there's no way to get enough >> torque applied to break it loose. Heat, penetrent in various >> combinations >> and cycles have not made it any easier. Sheesh. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 09:42:41 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 11:42:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4F033001.7080604@gmail.com> My '95 F150 is like that--it's easier to sit on the fender than it is to try and reach all the way in to the engine compartment. I greatly prefer that to the Beetle. On 1/3/2012 11:25 AM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > First car was a 64 Ford Futura Falcon with a straight 6. I found it > easier to climb into the engine compartment and sit on the frame, > rather than reaching over the fender all the way to the engine. > > Peter T From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 3 10:00:03 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:00:03 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> those days are gone.... you can't even see the ground thru an engine compartment now ! j ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Thomas" To: "Scott" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor > On 1/3/2012 9:49 AM, Scott wrote: >> I feel your pain. My wife's New Beetle is the first car I've ever worked >> on that I wasn't actually sure I could repair. It literally became an >> issue that my hands couldn't fit between the frame member and the engine >> to access stuff. When I asked online and at the dealer, they say stuff >> like, "Yeah, we have to give it to a tech that can get his hands in >> there." >> >> And I used to think Mazda was just punishing the Americans for Hiroshima. >> They're nothing compared to that Beetle. >> >> I guess everyone must have that One Car That Beat Them (Almost). > > First car was a 64 Ford Futura Falcon with a straight 6. I found it > easier to climb into the engine compartment and sit on the frame, rather > than reaching over the fender all the way to the engine. > > Peter T >> >> On 1/3/2012 12:23 AM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >>> I need to replace a failed oxygen sensor in my old S10. Should be >>> a simple task - fat chance! There's just so little clearance that when I >>> do get a wrench or socket securely on it there's no way to get enough >>> torque applied to break it loose. Heat, penetrent in various >>> combinations >>> and cycles have not made it any easier. Sheesh. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4120 - Release Date: 01/03/12 From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Jan 3 10:02:58 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 12:02:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding table In-Reply-To: <4F012A68.3090702@gmail.com> References: <4F012A68.3090702@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Jan 2012, Scott wrote: > 1) The column has a few 'stringers' supporting the top, but over time the top > has sagged ever-so-slightly on the long axis. Maybe a half inch on either > end. Really probably not enough to worry about...but where's the fun in > that? I'm thinking: The ends have sagged, or the middle? Usually the ends are supported better than the middle. If the ends have sagged, you'll want to heat the top side. The surface you heat will shrink when it cools, so you want to heat the longer side. > A) flip it over on the concrete slab floor, heat it with the torch, let it > sit for a month or two and see if it improves. Repeat if it seems to be > working. Be careful with that much heat on concrete. Concrete has moisture in it, and will explode when heated sufficiently. This is why we build half-ton welding tables instead of working on the floor ;) > 2) The table I learned to weld on was an old robotics table, about 1.5 inch > thick steel, drilled and tapped every few inches for the clamps we used to > hold stuff on the mill table. I'd like to drill and tap the top on mine in a > similar fashion, but I've only got a half inch of thickness to work with. > Any reason I shouldn't weld nuts under the table after drilling and tapping > (I'm thinking mostly corrosion issues, but what do I care if the nut corrodes > more to the table?) I don't see any reason why this would be necessary, but as long as you get the threads in the top lined up with the threads of the nut, no problems should result. I'm just going to drill and tap my 4x8 1/2" table. Welding underneath it is no damn fun at all, so I'm not looking for excuses to do it. > 3) The same table had a lug on a leg that we kept the lead attached to > permanently. It was very nice to set the workpiece on the table and be able > to have at it. My new table seems to be all-steel and I'd think I could do > something similar, but should I trust the 'connectivity' of the whole table? > Should I weld a lug to the underside of the tabletop and run a cable down to > the base? Why not just run the cable from the underside of the top all the way to the welder, and cut out the middle man? > Seriously, this thing is better than any of the stuff I got for Christmas. > It has to weigh 700-800 lbs at least. I'm not sure I could have bought the > top for what I paid for the whole thing. It's awesome. :-) Your top is 408 pounds, fwiw. -- David Hillman From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 12:00:24 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:00:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding table In-Reply-To: References: <4F012A68.3090702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F035048.1070108@gmail.com> On 1/3/2012 12:02 PM, David Hillman wrote: > The ends have sagged, or the middle? The ends. The middle is where the 'leg' is--a single column about eight inches in diameter. > Usually the ends are supported better than the middle. If the ends > have sagged, you'll want to heat the top side. The surface you heat > will shrink when it cools, so you want to heat the longer side. Interesting...I didn't think about just heating the top of the table and seeing if it'd shrink and pull up the ends. Am I just crazy about putting some thing bar stock over the top, then trying to crank the ends up to it, then welding more stock to the bottom to keep it flat? I'll probably have to get railroad rail and the world's biggest clamps, but the droop really isn't that great. > I don't see any reason why this would be necessary, but as long as > you get the threads in the top lined up with the threads of the nut, > no problems should result. I'm just going to drill and tap my 4x8 > 1/2" table. Welding underneath it is no damn fun at all, so I'm not > looking for excuses to do it. I figure I'll flip it over and do it all at once. I could use the practice anyway. Even thought about then welding some strap or thinner plate between the nuts. I figure more mass is better here. > Why not just run the cable from the underside of the top all the > way to the welder, and cut out the middle man? I could. It was more an attempt to keep the whole thing as 'clean' as possible. I could just attach to the tabletop and strap the lead to the column/leg. I'm trying to have less stuff to trip over or get tangled in. > Your top is 408 pounds, fwiw. Huh. Now I must calculate what the column and foot weigh. The thing is *heavy*. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 12:01:44 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:01:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> <9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4F035098.3000700@gmail.com> And yet somehow, whenever I drop a nut/bolt/whatever past the engine and thinl, "oh it'll just get caught on the belly pan and I'll grab it"...it's never there. At least on the F150 it falls through and I can pick it up off the floor. On 1/3/2012 12:00 PM, john niolon wrote: > those days are gone.... you can't even see the ground thru an engine > compartment now ! From al at bighealey.org Tue Jan 3 12:18:01 2012 From: al at bighealey.org (Al Fuller) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 14:18:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com> <4EFAA84F.4010509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ef01ccca4c$69e9b170$3dbd1450$@org> Do you need something like this??: There are a couple of 90 degree pliers on that page... http://www.harborfreight.com/16-inch-long-reach-pliers-set-38598.html al -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Hillman Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:49 AM To: Scott Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? On Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Scott wrote: > I'm having a hard time imagining how a set of pliers like that would work. > You'd need a cam to offset the force 90 degrees, but you'd also need > something stationary for the cam to rest on. I'd like to see the pics of your > dad's set(s). I can't either... I was pretty stunned when my father claimed to have one. > Having said all that, any tutorials you have on how you got to be > just...incredible at Sketchup would be much appreciated. I've followed all > the Google ones and even if I could produce that (I can't) it'd take me > months to even get close. Actually, I suck with Sketchup... all I did was download a "plier" object, and rotate the jaws ninety degrees. I too am blown away by the amount of time some people must be spending with that application. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/al at bighealey.org From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 3 12:48:08 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 13:48:08 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding table Message-ID: <5BA6FC49CD4648BC87245583CAF94ED0@OwnerPC> sent this before, but it got bounced another option... but then I read the post about the center leg... that might complicate it... if the ends are drooping is there a way to set the table up on something... like a crosstie running diagonal from one corner leg to the other diagonal corner leg,then just put something under the other two corners to support it. Weld a strong lug to the bottom of the table in the center... then using a good chain type come-a-long attached to the crosstie, pull the bow out? when you get it flat...which will probably include pulling it past the flat point to remove the bend... then check with a piece of flat bar on edge or angle iron... weld in diagonal bracing (in tension) from each leg to the center line of the table. That should hold it in place.. It will also check your welding skills. Bracing from leg to leg at the bottom might be needed to keep the legs from bowing IN. If the leg to leg bracing is about a foot off the floor it would make a great shelf support... more horizontal surfaces in the shop mean more places to accumulate junk.... er... stuff. I'm wondering if the suggestion before... jack/beam/header... can get enough pressure on the table using the door header without lifting the header off the foundation ????? I've lifted houses off the foundation with a 5 ton jack before. just another suggestion john I used to be indecisive.... but now I'm not so sure From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Jan 3 13:02:33 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 15:02:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding table In-Reply-To: <4F035048.1070108@gmail.com> References: <4F012A68.3090702@gmail.com> <4F035048.1070108@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jan 2012, Scott wrote: > The ends. The middle is where the 'leg' is--a single column about eight > inches in diameter. That's a relatively unique design. How stable is it? > Am I just crazy about putting some thing bar stock over the top, then trying > to crank the ends up to it, then welding more stock to the bottom to keep it > flat? I'll probably have to get railroad rail and the world's biggest > clamps, but the droop really isn't that great. No, you aren't crazy, it just won't be easy and probably not cheap. Flip it over onto two large, true I beams, clamp down each corner, and then weld some heavy tube or angle underneath along the 5 foot sides, leaving a few inches of overhang. > Huh. Now I must calculate what the column and foot weigh. The thing is > *heavy*. .2833 pounds per cubic inch for steel. Adds up quick. My top is about 700 pounds, and the frame around 250. -- David Hillman From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 14:05:57 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:05:57 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding table In-Reply-To: References: <4F012A68.3090702@gmail.com> <4F035048.1070108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F036DB5.4010806@gmail.com> On 1/3/2012 3:02 PM, David Hillman wrote: > That's a relatively unique design. How stable is it? I stood on one of the 'long' ends and bounced up and down on the balls of my feet. It didn't move. That design is one of the things I like about it--plenty of room for me to clamp stuff to the edges, and get in close to it without bumping into the legs. For slow TIG welding, I could even get a stool right up the edge and sit on it with my legs under the table. I'm still pretty wretched at TIG welding, so being able to sit and brace myself without having to hover with my weight over the work will be a help, I think. The foot is maybe three feet on a side, also half-inch steel. It's a bit like the old Mustangs--it's got plenty of 'road-hugging weight' keeping it steady. :-) > No, you aren't crazy, it just won't be easy and probably not cheap. > Flip it over onto two large, true I beams, clamp down each corner, and > then weld some heavy tube or angle underneath along the 5 foot sides, > leaving a few inches of overhang. That's sort of what I had in mind. I just need to find two large, true I-beams and some really big clamps. How much overhang should I leave? I want more than I think I'll ever need, but I want to support the top enough not to sag again. The existing supports run diagonally from the column towards each corner, and they probably stop about two feet from the corners. I would have thought that would have been enough, and it makes me want to go almost all the way to the edges...but I never want to bump into a support with a clamp on the edge. > .2833 pounds per cubic inch for steel. Adds up quick. My top is > about 700 pounds, and the frame around 250. I'd like to weigh mine. Putting together a shop involves a lot of creative, third-century B.C.-esque moving techniques. For the TIG welder, I had to put the engine crane in the bed of truck, lower it onto the ground, tilt it until I got pipes under it, then roll it over the pipes until I got it where I wanted it in the garage. This table is going to be like that. From eltonclark at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 14:32:12 2012 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 15:32:12 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding table In-Reply-To: <5BA6FC49CD4648BC87245583CAF94ED0@OwnerPC> References: <5BA6FC49CD4648BC87245583CAF94ED0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: *Here's a one cent hint that gets* *comments on my weld table:* ** *I surfaced part of the top of my * *table with firebricks I bought* *cheap from a masonry supply* *store . . I welded a little fence* *around them to contain the loose* *bricks and it's nice to gas weld* *or silver solder on them, they* *don't conduct the heat away.* From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Jan 3 15:05:15 2012 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 17:05:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding table In-Reply-To: <4F036DB5.4010806@gmail.com> References: <4F012A68.3090702@gmail.com> <4F035048.1070108@gmail.com> <4F036DB5.4010806@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jan 2012, Scott wrote: > I stood on one of the 'long' ends and bounced up and down on the balls of my > feet. It didn't move. That design is one of the things I like about > it--plenty of room for me to clamp stuff to the edges, and get in close to it > without bumping into the legs. For slow TIG welding, I could even get a > stool right up the edge and sit on it with my legs under the table. I'm > still pretty wretched at TIG welding, so being able to sit and brace myself > without having to hover with my weight over the work will be a help, I think. I built the frame for my table with one side totally open for the same reason. It has five legs, one on each corner, and one in the middle of the back side. I am definitely better seated, versus trying to balance on one foot and pedal with the other. > The foot is maybe three feet on a side, also half-inch steel. It's a bit like > the old Mustangs--it's got plenty of 'road-hugging weight' keeping it steady. > :-) Well that's about 200 pounds, which explains a lot. I was picturing something much more 'foot-sized'. That'd be a nice top for most. > That's sort of what I had in mind. I just need to find two large, true > I-beams and some really big clamps. How much overhang should I leave? I > want more than I think I'll ever need, but I want to support the top enough > not to sag again. The existing supports run diagonally from the column > towards each corner, and they probably stop about two feet from the corners. > I would have thought that would have been enough, and it makes me want to go > almost all the way to the edges...but I never want to bump into a support > with a clamp on the edge. For clamping, a few inches suffices for all but really long-jaw clamps. If you use angle for those supports, you can go all the way to the edge without preventing clamping ( except for the small spot where the vertical of the angle is ). I left three inches overhang on three sides of my table, and 15 inches on the other, but I had other reasons for that. > I'd like to weigh mine. Putting together a shop involves a lot of creative, > third-century B.C.-esque moving techniques. For the TIG welder, I had to put > the engine crane in the bed of truck, lower it onto the ground, tilt it until > I got pipes under it, then roll it over the pipes until I got it where I > wanted it in the garage. This table is going to be like that. I drove to work for three days with my 4x8 plate hanging out the back of my short bed truck while I built the frame to the hold it. The only way I could safely unload it was to slide it directly onto the frame... http://planet-torque.com/welding/tools/fab-table-top-1.jpg If you wind up welding some supports underneath to keep the top flat, consider using some conveniently-sized tubes. 2" hitch receiver tube is most peoples' choice. Then make removable mounts for various tools with other tube that telescopes inside... http://planet-torque.com/welding/tools/bench-grinder-2.jpg Drill and tap a hole in each support, make a couple tee handles like this to secure the mounts, and, bam, modular workstation. http://planet-torque.com/welding/tools/tee-handle.jpg If you do use receiver tube ( which is kind of expensive ), you also now have portable tools you can install on your truck. -- David Hillman From mark at bradakis.com Tue Jan 3 20:20:49 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 20:20:49 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> <9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4F03C591.9000209@bradakis.com> john niolon wrote: > those days are gone.... you can't even see the ground thru an engine > compartment now ! I much prefer working on older British cars where it is only the Lucas electrics that can't see the ground ;-) mjb. From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Jan 3 20:56:21 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 19:56:21 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F03C591.9000209@bradakis.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com><4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net><9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> <4F03C591.9000209@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <068401ccca94$d225b980$0201a8c0@randall> > I much prefer working on older British cars where it is only > the Lucas electrics > that can't see the ground ;-) Good one ! -- Randall From strovato at optonline.net Tue Jan 3 21:19:46 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 23:19:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F03C591.9000209@bradakis.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> <9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> <4F03C591.9000209@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <0LX900D7WAQHPMI0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Mine POSITIVELY can. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 10:20 PM 1/3/2012, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >I much prefer working on older British cars where it is only the >Lucas electrics >that can't see the ground ;-) From mark at bradakis.com Tue Jan 3 21:25:53 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 21:25:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <068401ccca94$d225b980$0201a8c0@randall> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com><4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net><9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> <4F03C591.9000209@bradakis.com> <068401ccca94$d225b980$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4F03D4D1.2020902@bradakis.com> Randall wrote: >> I much prefer working on older British cars where it is only >> the Lucas electrics >> that can't see the ground ;-) > Good one ! > > I do find it hard to resist a good pun. mjb. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Tue Jan 3 21:32:25 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 23:32:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis Message-ID: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> Seeking opinions about painting the chassis of my MGA. The chassis is box sections and of course the inside never received any rust-proofing/paint etc in 1960. As I am finishing up the repairs needed I would like to get something inside to preserve it for the next 50 years. I have a rotisserie that easily allows me to turn the chassis 360 degrees along its length. My thought is to buy some Rustoleum 'rusty metal' primer, thin it a bit and pour some into the box sections via existing access holes (after closing other holes with tape) then turn the chassis and try get the paint to coat as much of the inside as possible. POR 15 would probably be a better product to treat rusty metal but that is much more expensive. Eastwood sells a spray in product with extension wands but again a bit pricey at ~$20/can X 4-6 cans needed. Opinions - is the Rustoleum stuff worth using? Spring for some POR15? Other ideas? Eric Russell Mebane, NC From mark at bradakis.com Tue Jan 3 22:46:09 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2012 22:46:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F035098.3000700@gmail.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> <9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> <4F035098.3000700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F03E7A1.7070806@bradakis.com> One benefit of the ordeal is that I decided I really needed a 1/2 drive flex head ratchet, so there is a new tool in the box. Too bad I didn't start this project just before Christmas. While in Phoenix I spent an afternoon with my sister going through Scott's tools. He had a import repair shop in Cave Creek, catering to Bimmers, Benzs, Jags, Porsches and such. He was struggling with diabetes for some time ( they were together 20+ years ) and it finally got him a few months ago. That was a somewhat depressing afternoon. Anyway, if I knew then what I know now I would have grabbed a few more odds and ends from his giant red wagon to assist in this O2 sensor ordeal. Oh well, so it goes. And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic won't stay current for long. mjb. From bobkegel at comcast.net Tue Jan 3 22:55:04 2012 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 21:55:04 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: >Other ideas? Marine-grade structural foam. It would exclude air and moisture and improve chassis rigidity. Looks like the cost is about $10/cubic foot. Bob K From nick at landform.co.uk Wed Jan 4 02:18:27 2012 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 09:18:27 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F03E7A1.7070806@bradakis.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com> <4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net> <9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC> <4F035098.3000700@gmail.com> <4F03E7A1.7070806@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4F041963.9040707@landform.co.uk> On 04/01/2012 05:46, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic > won't stay current for long. > No, too much resistance. We need something a bit more earthy. Sorry, couldn't resist the hood/bonnet thing. Nick Brearley From watsonm05 at comcast.net Wed Jan 4 03:34:54 2012 From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 05:34:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F03E7A1.7070806@bradakis.com> References: <4F0290EF.2040304@bradakis.com> <4F03156E.8070009@gmail.com><4F032C09.5090300@comcast.net><9B1F9FBC298C466BA8DE72B50CED8D59@OwnerPC><4F035098.3000700@gmail.com> <4F03E7A1.7070806@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <2CF3704E600040789896CE0C0B528D1C@Dell2010Watson> Oh, don't stop - it's got great potential! -----Original Message----- >And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic >won't stay current for long. >mjb. From eric at megageek.com Wed Jan 4 04:25:25 2012 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 06:25:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F03E7A1.7070806@bradakis.com> Message-ID: mjb writes... "And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic won't stay current for long." Quite frankly, this whole discussion is quite _shocking_. Watt will you come up with next? And more importantly, how can I insulate myself from this childish behavior? I better stop before everyone gets all amp'ed up over it. OUCH. (Sorry, I couldn't RESIST it anymore!) 8>) Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Mark J Bradakis Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 01/04/2012 01:19 To shop-talk at autox.team.net cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor One benefit of the ordeal is that I decided I really needed a 1/2 drive flex head ratchet, so there is a new tool in the box. Too bad I didn't start this project just before Christmas. While in Phoenix I spent an afternoon with my sister going through Scott's tools. He had a import repair shop in Cave Creek, catering to Bimmers, Benzs, Jags, Porsches and such. He was struggling with diabetes for some time ( they were together 20+ years ) and it finally got him a few months ago. That was a somewhat depressing afternoon. Anyway, if I knew then what I know now I would have grabbed a few more odds and ends from his giant red wagon to assist in this O2 sensor ordeal. Oh well, so it goes. And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic won't stay current for long. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From tputland at charter.net Wed Jan 4 05:24:04 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 07:24:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis Message-ID: <24e6460.d4429.134a8ad1e8a.Webtop.49@charter.net> If you go the POR15 route, order it through Eastwood (same price as the POR15 web site last time I looked about six month ago) and join the Eastwood frequent buyer club and get free shipping. This will ease the cost of going with POR15. Plus, the POR15 is already very thin and I believe can be sprayed as is, or at least with minimal thinning. You won't have to worry about the POR15 as it is pretty much bullet proof. I do not know if the rustoleum product would last forever like the POR15. my .02 tim On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:32 PM, ejrussell at mebtel.net wrote: > Seeking opinions about painting the chassis of my MGA. The chassis is > box sections and of course the inside never received any > rust-proofing/paint etc in 1960. As I am finishing up the repairs > needed I would like to get something inside to preserve it for the > next 50 years. I have a rotisserie that easily allows me to turn the > chassis 360 degrees along its length. My thought is to buy some > Rustoleum 'rusty metal' primer, thin it a bit and pour some into the > box sections via existing access holes (after closing other holes with > tape) then turn the chassis and try get the paint to coat as much of > the inside as possible. POR 15 would probably be a better product to > treat rusty metal but that is much more expensive. Eastwood sells a > spray in product with extension wands but again a bit pricey at > ~$20/can X 4-6 cans needed. Opinions - is the Rustoleum stuff worth > using? Spring for some POR15? Other ideas? > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From doug at dougbraun.com Wed Jan 4 06:24:21 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 08:24:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: What's really inside the box sections? If they have a lot of dust or grease, paint will not do much good. Can they be washed out? Doug On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:32 PM, wrote: > Seeking opinions about painting the chassis of my MGA. The chassis is box > sections and of course the inside never received any rust-proofing/paint etc > in 1960. As I am finishing up the repairs needed I would like to get > something inside to preserve it for the next 50 years. > I have a rotisserie that easily allows me to turn the chassis 360 degrees > along its length. From bspidell at comcast.net Wed Jan 4 06:37:40 2012 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 05:37:40 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F045624.5000901@comcast.net> Cease and desist. We're all too well grounded for such nonsense. Bob On 1/4/2012 3:25 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > mjb writes... > "And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic > won't stay current for long." > > Quite frankly, this whole discussion is quite _shocking_. Watt will you > come up with next? And more importantly, how can I insulate myself from > this childish behavior? > I better stop before everyone gets all amp'ed up over it. > > > OUCH. (Sorry, I couldn't RESIST it anymore!) 8>) > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > > > > > Mark J Bradakis > Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > 01/04/2012 01:19 > > To > shop-talk at autox.team.net > cc > > Subject > Re: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor > > > > > > > One benefit of the ordeal is that I decided I really needed a 1/2 drive > flex head ratchet, so there is a new tool in the box. Too bad I didn't > start this project just before Christmas. While in Phoenix I spent an > afternoon with my sister going through Scott's tools. He had a import > repair shop in Cave Creek, catering to Bimmers, Benzs, Jags, Porsches > and such. He was struggling with diabetes for some time ( they were > together 20+ years ) and it finally got him a few months ago. That was > a somewhat depressing afternoon. > > Anyway, if I knew then what I know now I would have grabbed a few more > odds and ends from his giant red wagon to assist in this O2 sensor ordeal. > Oh well, so it goes. > > And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic > won't stay current for long. > > mjb. > > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From strovato at optonline.net Wed Jan 4 10:39:10 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 12:39:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: <0LXA00LWRBR57X50@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> The first thing every MGA owner needs to do is find Barney Gaylord's site, http://mgaguru.com/. Go to the expanded Tech Index and prepare to spend many hours reading. Here is one page you might find interesting: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/frame/fr105.htm. Then, you'll want to check out the MG Enthusiasts forum at http://www.mgcars.org.uk/, and the MG Experience forum at http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/. There's lots of great info to be had on shop-talk, but for MGA specific stuff, I recommend the above. Good luck with the project. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 11:32 PM 1/3/2012, ejrussell at mebtel.net wrote: >Seeking opinions about painting the chassis of my MGA. The chassis >is box sections and of course the inside never received any >rust-proofing/paint etc in 1960. As I am finishing up the repairs >needed I would like to get something inside to preserve it for the >next 50 years. From obaa996 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 4 10:55:39 2012 From: obaa996 at yahoo.com (Obaa) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:55:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Didn't get what you want for Xmas? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1325699739.52982.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Boy, this would be neat to find under the tree..... http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/2781522069.html From jdinnis at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 11:31:12 2012 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 12:31:12 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Didn't get what you want for Xmas? In-Reply-To: <1325699739.52982.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1325699739.52982.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: WOW, the generator alone is worth the asking price. If I had the cash..... On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Obaa wrote: > Boy, this would be neat to find under the tree..... > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/2781522069.html > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 11:59:47 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 13:59:47 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Didn't get what you want for Xmas? In-Reply-To: References: <1325699739.52982.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F04A1A3.5080807@gmail.com> Indeed. I drooled a little bit. On 1/4/2012 1:31 PM, John Innis wrote: > WOW, the generator alone is worth the asking price. If I had the cash..... From jblair1948 at cox.net Wed Jan 4 12:52:55 2012 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 14:52:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20120104144743.04dc8d20@cox.net> At 11:32 PM 1/3/2012, ejrussell at mebtel.net wrote: >Seeking opinions about painting the chassis of my MGA. The chassis is box >sections and of course the inside never received any rust-proofing/paint etc in >1960. As I am finishing up the repairs needed I would like to get something >inside to preserve it for the next 50 years. Eric, Did you clean out the inside of the box chassis? When I was redoing the box chassis on my Bricklin, I found the best way to clean the inside was to cut the a couple of feed of a cheap plumbers snake chuck it in a drill, slide the head into the chassis, turn the drill on, and let the head bead the inside of the box channel up. Did a good job on breaking the rust up. Then Vac. and blew the trash out of the boxes. I tried to use an undercoating gun and spray the insided of the chassis but didn't have much luck with that. I ended up pouring paint into the chassis and tying a sock on the end of a long piece of brake tubing and using that as a paint brush. I don't remember weither I used Rustoleium or Por15. I did use both on the chassis and parts. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Wed Jan 4 14:31:19 2012 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 16:31:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120104144743.04dc8d20@cox.net> References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20120104144743.04dc8d20@cox.net> Message-ID: <005401cccb28$33a05e20$9ae11a60$@cablespeed.com> Don't worry about frame rust. British cars throw so much oil everything is naturally rust proofed ;-) -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John T. Blair Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:53 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis At 11:32 PM 1/3/2012, ejrussell at mebtel.net wrote: >Seeking opinions about painting the chassis of my MGA. The chassis is box >sections and of course the inside never received any rust-proofing/paint etc in >1960. As I am finishing up the repairs needed I would like to get something >inside to preserve it for the next 50 years. Eric, Did you clean out the inside of the box chassis? When I was redoing the box chassis on my Bricklin, I found the best way to clean the inside was to cut the a couple of feed of a cheap plumbers snake chuck it in a drill, slide the head into the chassis, turn the drill on, and let the head bead the inside of the box channel up. Did a good job on breaking the rust up. Then Vac. and blew the trash out of the boxes. I tried to use an undercoating gun and spray the insided of the chassis but didn't have much luck with that. I ended up pouring paint into the chassis and tying a sock on the end of a long piece of brake tubing and using that as a paint brush. I don't remember weither I used Rustoleium or Por15. I did use both on the chassis and parts. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com From malaboge at aol.com Wed Jan 4 14:40:11 2012 From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 16:40:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120104144743.04dc8d20@cox.net> References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20120104144743.04dc8d20@cox.net> Message-ID: <8CE9940924CEC3D-1AE8-50D94@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Fellow rustaholics- Once you clean the inside of the frame a bit, you might try this option. I used a few of the longest Bundyflex brake lines (avail at your flaps) and a small sprinkler head (about a 1/4" in diameter) from an irrigation system. They're plastic and available in a 360 degree spray pattern. Use your Weber jet drill (Holley also acceptable as well...or for that matter any smallish drill bit lying in the bottom of the drawer) and enlarge the spray holes a bit to allow the somewhat thicker medium. Superglue your modified spray head to the end of the Bundyflex. To "propel" your mixture I used a new lever style grease gun, with appropriate fittings to mate with the Bundyflex. Drill a hole in the end of the frame at each end, stick the bundyflex in half way, fill the grease gun, pump the lever and pull the whole magilla out as you pump. Once you've pumped enough POR or Rust Mort or whatever you're using in the frame, rotate it on the spit as it dries so as not to pool all in one spot. Worked well for me and using a borescope later, I could see that it really did coat well. Yeah I've gotta get out more... Nick in Nor Cal From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 15:04:09 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:04:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <005401cccb28$33a05e20$9ae11a60$@cablespeed.com> References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20120104144743.04dc8d20@cox.net> <005401cccb28$33a05e20$9ae11a60$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: <4F04CCD9.1060206@gmail.com> That was my initial thought as well. It's lasted this long with nothing...and it's not like you're going to be able to rebuild the engine to *not* leak any oil... :-) But then again, I'd be trying to coat the inside of the rails too. I'd use POR 15, though. Do it once and do it right. On 1/4/2012 4:31 PM, Gerald Brazil wrote: > Don't worry about frame rust. British cars throw so much oil everything is > naturally rust proofed ;-) From jniolon at bham.rr.com Wed Jan 4 15:19:32 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 16:19:32 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] painting inside frame Message-ID: you might try one of the electric Wagner paint sprayers... they make extension wands for them and they will pump pretty stiff mixture like latex... wonder if a pump up garden sprayer would spray if sufficiently thinned ??? several light coats would do it and the want is about 2 feet long I used the rag on a stick and just slopped it in good in my boxed frame rails on a 53 f-100 just a thought john I used to be indecisive but now I just don't know From brabel at comcast.net Wed Jan 4 15:53:21 2012 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 14:53:21 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <4F045624.5000901@comcast.net> References: <4F045624.5000901@comcast.net> Message-ID: Now, don't you guys spark an argument... On Jan 4, 2012, at 5:37 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > Cease and desist. We're all too well grounded for such nonsense. > > > Bob > > > > On 1/4/2012 3:25 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: >> mjb writes... >> "And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic >> won't stay current for long." >> >> Quite frankly, this whole discussion is quite _shocking_. Watt will you >> come up with next? And more importantly, how can I insulate myself from >> this childish behavior? >> I better stop before everyone gets all amp'ed up over it. >> >> >> OUCH. (Sorry, I couldn't RESIST it anymore!) 8>) >> >> Eric P >> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational >> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph >> Waldo Emerson >> >> >> >> >> Mark J Bradakis >> Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net >> 01/04/2012 01:19 >> >> To >> shop-talk at autox.team.net >> cc >> >> Subject >> Re: [Shop-talk] What fun - O2 sensor >> >> >> >> >> >> >> One benefit of the ordeal is that I decided I really needed a 1/2 drive >> flex head ratchet, so there is a new tool in the box. Too bad I didn't >> start this project just before Christmas. While in Phoenix I spent an >> afternoon with my sister going through Scott's tools. He had a import >> repair shop in Cave Creek, catering to Bimmers, Benzs, Jags, Porsches >> and such. He was struggling with diabetes for some time ( they were >> together 20+ years ) and it finally got him a few months ago. That was >> a somewhat depressing afternoon. >> >> Anyway, if I knew then what I know now I would have grabbed a few more >> odds and ends from his giant red wagon to assist in this O2 sensor ordeal. >> Oh well, so it goes. >> >> And on a side note I'll refrain from any more electrical puns, that topic >> won't stay current for long. >> >> mjb. >> >> >> > > > -- > ******************************************************************* > Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net > > ******************************************************************* > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/brabel at comcast.net From eltonclark at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 15:53:39 2012 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 16:53:39 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <4F04CCD9.1060206@gmail.com> References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20120104144743.04dc8d20@cox.net> <005401cccb28$33a05e20$9ae11a60$@cablespeed.com> <4F04CCD9.1060206@gmail.com> Message-ID: *We faced this problem with a Lotus formula Ford. To * *complicate matters, it uses the frame tubes for the* *coolant and this car is 43 years old! We swabbed and* *degreased the tubes with a scrub pad tied in the middle* * of a wire and, after drying completely, I sprayed a rattle* *can of Zynolyte epoxy in each tube and accompanied the* *spray with a blast of compressor air. It made an 'ellova * *mess on the other end but e think we got good coverage* *and after a coupla years, we are getting no paint flecks * *in the coolant.* * Tony* From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 16:34:47 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 17:34:47 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: <005401cccb28$33a05e20$9ae11a60$@cablespeed.com> References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20120104144743.04dc8d20@cox.net> <005401cccb28$33a05e20$9ae11a60$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: <7AC4008A-5E69-482C-B4CA-C4A03A009B40@gmail.com> On Jan 4, 2012, at 3:31 PM, "Gerald Brazil" wrote: > Don't worry about frame rust. British cars throw so much oil everything is > naturally rust proofed ;-) Sadly that's not true. Seen many a lbc frame rotting in the insudde with good paint and oil on the outside. From jibjib at att.net Wed Jan 4 18:42:34 2012 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 17:42:34 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis In-Reply-To: References: <20120103233225.j1nx08khs68ggso4@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: If it is grease inside POR and other paints will have an issue sticking. If it can't be cleaned grease free don't use paint. If this is the case, I'd suggest Waxoil. My 1988 Saab came with a similar material applied to the body and it was intact and solid after 17 years and over 250,000 miles when the car was totaled in an accident. There is a homebrew recipe somewhere on the web. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Braun Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 5:24 AM To: ejrussell at mebtel.net Cc: mgs at autox.team.net; shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis What's really inside the box sections? If they have a lot of dust or grease, paint will not do much good. Can they be washed out? Doug On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:32 PM, wrote: > Seeking opinions about painting the chassis of my MGA. The chassis is box > sections and of course the inside never received any rust-proofing/paint etc > in 1960. As I am finishing up the repairs needed I would like to get > something inside to preserve it for the next 50 years. > I have a rotisserie that easily allows me to turn the chassis 360 degrees > along its length. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From ejrussell at mebtel.net Wed Jan 4 20:19:00 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 22:19:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting inside a chassis Message-ID: <20120104221900.61t233njj5yc4gs0@webmail2.centurytel.net> > Seeking opinions about painting (inside of) the chassis of my MGA. Thank you everyone for your replies. I don't know why I had not considered Waxoyl. I'd had our '78 MGB treated with Waxoyl (car since sold). It seems like Waxoyl (or perhaps the redneck/home made version) applied with a garden sprayer & extended wands might do the job. Thanks for the reminder to check Barney Gaylord's site (which I do regularly) and MG experience (which I do occasionally). Eric Russell Mebane, NC From cavanadd at frontier.com Wed Jan 4 20:39:56 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 19:39:56 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Didn't get what you want for Xmas? In-Reply-To: <1325699739.52982.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1325699739.52982.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F051B8C.3010807@frontier.com> No Bridgeport? Pass. Obaa wrote: > Boy, this would be neat to find under the tree..... > > http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tls/2781522069.html > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From ronnie.day at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 08:41:49 2012 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 09:41:49 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Motorbooks Discount Message-ID: Motorbooks is offering 30% off and free shipping on some orders through tomorrow, the 6th. se the promo code "happy2". I ordered Dennis Parks' book on Automotive Wiring and Des Hammill's on Camshaft Selection and Tuning. I noticed that they offer Haynes "manuals" on the F-86 and the Space Shuttle. Those might be fun to have. Ron From jmitch at snet.net Thu Jan 5 19:28:54 2012 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 21:28:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding car batteries Message-ID: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> Does anyone know of a service that will rebuild a car battery in it's original case? I've got a Lucas Pacesetter that holds a full charge but when I put a carbon pile load on it, drops very quickly. Thanks for any help. John Mitchell Shelton, CT From bspidell at comcast.net Thu Jan 5 20:23:38 2012 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 19:23:38 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding car batteries In-Reply-To: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> References: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> Message-ID: <4F06693A.9000508@comcast.net> I've never heard of such a service--and suspect if there is one it would be very expensive--but you might try one of the 'smart' chargers that claim they can desulphate a 'dead' battery. I've got one of these (you can get them cheaper elsewhere): *http://tinyurl.com/yl6n7vv* A fresh charge of electrolyte (acid) might help as well (but I'm just speculating). Bob On 1/5/2012 6:28 PM, John Mitchell wrote: > Does anyone know of a service that will rebuild a car battery in it's original case? I've got a Lucas Pacesetter that > holds a full charge but when I put a carbon pile load on it, drops very quickly. Thanks for any help. John > Mitchell Shelton, CT > _______________________________________________ > > > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From doug at dougbraun.com Thu Jan 5 21:04:35 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 23:04:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding car batteries In-Reply-To: <4F06693A.9000508@comcast.net> References: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> <4F06693A.9000508@comcast.net> Message-ID: In the olden days, Ford's parts catalog listed individual plates for their batteries. I guess it was normal for the local mechanic to unseal and remove the top of the battery case and replace failed internal parts. Today that would be quite impossible... Doug > On 1/5/2012 6:28 PM, John Mitchell wrote: >> >> Does anyone know of a service that will rebuild a car battery in it's >> original case? I've got a Lucas Pacesetter that holds a full charge but >> when I put a carbon pile load on it, drops very quickly. Thanks for any >> help. John Mitchell Shelton, CT From 57healey at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 21:22:54 2012 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 22:22:54 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding car batteries In-Reply-To: <4F06693A.9000508@comcast.net> References: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> <4F06693A.9000508@comcast.net> Message-ID: I understand these guys http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/ used to do it, but dont anymore. I would call and see if they can point you in the right direction as I likely get calls often. Sent from my iPad On Jan 5, 2012, at 9:23 PM, Bob Spidell wrote: > > On 1/5/2012 6:28 PM, John Mitchell wrote: >> Does anyone know of a service that will rebuild a car battery in it's original case? I've got a Lucas Pacesetter that holds a full charge but when I put a carbon pile load on it, drops very quickly. Thanks for any help. John Mitchell Shelton, CT From strovato at optonline.net Thu Jan 5 21:45:11 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 23:45:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding car batteries In-Reply-To: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> References: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> Message-ID: <0LXD00609194ON60@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> John, I don't know of any such service. There is one company, http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/, that sells very realistic looking reproductions. There is another company, http://tartopper.com/ that puts some fake plastic stuff around a modern battery. Perhaps it would be possible to take your battery and replace the guts with a modern, smaller battery. You can also try modern battery charger/desulphator things, but eventually every battery will die so the best you can hope for would be to squeeze out a little more time. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 09:28 PM 1/5/2012, John Mitchell wrote: >Does anyone know of a service that will rebuild a car battery in >it's original case? I've got a Lucas Pacesetter that holds a full >charge but when I put a carbon pile load on it, drops very >quickly. Thanks for any help. John Mitchell Shelton, CT From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Fri Jan 6 03:46:16 2012 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 05:46:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding car batteries In-Reply-To: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> References: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> Message-ID: <000601cccc60$6c223690$4466a3b0$@cablespeed.com> Forgive me for sounding like a smartass, but why would anybody want to rebuild a Lucas battery? Isn't the purpose of a Lucas battery to suck the life out of lbcs? If your purpose is to get "originality points" in a concourse, then why not drive the car there on a real battery and after you get your parking spot put the Lucas battery in for "show". If the judges ask you to start the car they will nod understandingly when it fails to turn over. All you need to do then is make some quip about the Prince of Darkness and you will get your points. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Jan 6 09:28:33 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 11:28:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding car batteries In-Reply-To: <000601cccc60$6c223690$4466a3b0$@cablespeed.com> References: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> <000601cccc60$6c223690$4466a3b0$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: <4F072131.60605@gmail.com> I was thinking that failing to start might actually get you more points in a concourse. Points might actually be deducted if it *did* start. On 1/6/2012 5:46 AM, Gerald Brazil wrote: > Forgive me for sounding like a smartass, but why would anybody want to > rebuild a Lucas battery? > > Isn't the purpose of a Lucas battery to suck the life out of lbcs? > > If your purpose is to get "originality points" in a concourse, then why not > drive the car there on a real battery and after you get your parking spot > put the Lucas battery in for "show". If the judges ask you to start the car > they will nod understandingly when it fails to turn over. All you need to do > then is make some quip about the Prince of Darkness and you will get your > points. From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 6 11:27:20 2012 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:27:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle Message-ID: I need help with finding an LED headlight set for a motorcycle. Here is the situation... I'm in the final stages of building an electric motorcycle. I'm just buttoning up the rest of the little things. One of the areas I'm working on is the lights. I've managed to get all the lights LED except the headlights. (Because this is 100% electric bike, I need to reduce the power draw as much as possible.) But I can't find any LED headlight options. What I need is a hi/low beam LED light. I can use one in the center or two on the sides. It can be 12VDC or 48VDC. Does anyone know where I can find one? (Note, I'm NOT looking for just an LED bulb replacement. I need the entire fixture.) Thanks. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From jamesf at groupwbench.org Fri Jan 6 11:51:08 2012 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:51:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 6, 2012, at 1:27 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > > Does anyone know where I can find one? (Note, I'm NOT looking for just an > LED bulb replacement. I need the entire fixture.) Thanks. Curious why you don't want a bulb, since the existing fixture already has the lens work done. All the electric bikes I know of are race bikes, i.e. no lights. From 57healey at gmail.com Fri Jan 6 12:17:33 2012 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 13:17:33 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3141B424-894C-425E-A2D0-E8BEBEAC9A46@gmail.com> I think they used LED headlights on several of the bikes on American Chopper, see if you can find info on the Orange County Chopper Electric bike they took to Sturgus or trike they built for the season finale. I think one of them would have had LEDs Sent from my iPad On Jan 6, 2012, at 12:27 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > I need help with finding an LED headlight set for a motorcycle. > > Here is the situation... > > I'm in the final stages of building an electric motorcycle. I'm just > buttoning up the rest of the little things. One of the areas I'm working > on is the lights. I've managed to get all the lights LED except the > headlights. > > (Because this is 100% electric bike, I need to reduce the power draw as > much as possible.) > > But I can't find any LED headlight options. What I need is a hi/low beam > LED light. I can use one in the center or two on the sides. It can be > 12VDC or 48VDC. > > Does anyone know where I can find one? (Note, I'm NOT looking for just an > LED bulb replacement. I need the entire fixture.) Thanks. > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/57healey at gmail.com From bobkegel at comcast.net Fri Jan 6 12:42:09 2012 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 11:42:09 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <952F98871D1A46AEBE35D39240719692@robertve2wc7wm> If the bike has to inspected and licensed, you'll need something DOT-approved: http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/9/195/29280/ITEM/Acerbis-D-O-T--LED-V ision-HP-Headlight.aspx From bobkegel at comcast.net Fri Jan 6 12:58:36 2012 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 11:58:36 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1911FF9B0AA846E1A503A550278249E3@robertve2wc7wm> Oops, my bad. That was a halogen fixture with LED doodads. The Truck-Lite 27250C 7" headlight is DOT-approved but it's over $250, not including housing. http://www.amazon.com/Truck-Lite-27250C-Round-Headlamp-Inches/dp/B002IFRROM Bob K From battmain at yahoo.com Fri Jan 6 13:03:20 2012 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 12:03:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1325880200.7070.YahooMailNeo@web160102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Ebay I think would be your best bet I think. The problem is that anything related to LEDs at the moment are kinda' pricey, but should you want to tackle the building part yourself, you can get components in bulk for less than a quarter of the price of the built units. Look up LED flood lights and see if you can scavenge parts from those for your project. Regards, Brian ----- Original Message ----- > From: "eric at megageek.com" > To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net > Cc: > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 1:27 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle > (snip) > > (Because this is 100% electric bike, I need to reduce the power draw as > much as possible.) > > But I can't find any LED headlight options. What I need is a hi/low beam > LED light. I can use one in the center or two on the sides. It can be > 12VDC or 48VDC. > > Does anyone know where I can find one? (Note, I'm NOT looking for just an > LED bulb replacement. I need the entire fixture.) Thanks. (snip) From mbarre at juno.com Fri Jan 6 13:20:12 2012 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 20:20:12 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle Message-ID: <20120106.152012.30148.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Eric, Check some of the truck vendors, maybe the off road ones. Someone recently here in Georgia had a set of LED off road lights for sale on Craigslist and I remember they had a link to a truck aftermarket vendor. Good luck! Matt On Jan 6, 2012, at 12:27 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find one? (Note, I'm NOT looking for just an > LED bulb replacement. I need the entire fixture.) Thanks. > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson From mbarre at juno.com Fri Jan 6 13:59:04 2012 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 20:59:04 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: RE: LED Headlight for electric motorcycle Message-ID: <20120106.155904.30988.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com> Compliments of Tony! ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Tony Vaccaro To: Matt Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] LED Headlight for electric motorcycle Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:54:24 +0000 Matt, I cannot post to the list but if you can forward this for me http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2D isp=%2Flight_bars-rigid.html I have been looking for LEDs as well. I did find another one that actually had a light like he is looking for. I will try and find it again. Just tell the list that I am the one that posted this via you. Anthony R Vaccaro American Micro Inc 716-689-9100 (Store) 716-861-1412 (Cell) t/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com From mbarre at juno.com Fri Jan 6 15:49:09 2012 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 22:49:09 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: RE: Fw: RE: LED Headlight for electric motorcycle Message-ID: <20120106.174909.26565.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Tony Vaccaro To: Matt Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Fw: RE: LED Headlight for electric motorcycle Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 22:04:18 +0000 Matt...one more time and I think this is the answer. From the picture I see an LED headlight. http://www.ddmtuning.com/ Now I have bought about $1000 worth of lights from these guys with no issues. Never LED but lots of HID kits. Anthony R Vaccaro American Micro Inc 716-689-9100 (Store) 716-861-1412 (Cell) From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Fri Jan 6 16:33:18 2012 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 18:33:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: RE: Fw: RE: LED Headlight for electric motorcycle In-Reply-To: <20120106.174909.26565.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> References: <20120106.174909.26565.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Ill second ddmtuning. Ive had their ID kit and harness on my 4runner for 1.5 years without issue. My friend bought their LED lightbar for his tractor, but im not sure if he installed it yet. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 5:49 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: RE: Fw: RE: LED Headlight for electric motorcycle ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Tony Vaccaro To: Matt Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Fw: RE: LED Headlight for electric motorcycle Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 22:04:18 +0000 Matt...one more time and I think this is the answer. From the picture I see an LED headlight. http://www.ddmtuning.com/ Now I have bought about $1000 worth of lights from these guys with no issues. Never LED but lots of HID kits. Anthony R Vaccaro American Micro Inc 716-689-9100 (Store) 716-861-1412 (Cell) _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Fri Jan 6 19:16:24 2012 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:16:24 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] question about cheap air compressors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> 1. I bought a new small air compressor (Husky brand) from Home Depot for my home use. I just need something for light duty, and this was technically a Christmas present from my wife. I don't know which type of air connector it needs. It comes with a female fitting and from the appearance it must need a short male fitting, contrary to my experience in my father's shop where he had all long fittings. 2. For light duty home use, does it matter which type of hose I use? I see hoses for sale made from PVC, rubber, and polyurethane. I gather that PVC is stiffer, or maybe just stiffer in cold weather. I'm on a tight budget so I don't want to buy more than I really need. From cavanadd at frontier.com Fri Jan 6 19:31:23 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 18:31:23 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rebuilding car batteries In-Reply-To: References: <4F065C66.7040701@snet.net> <4F06693A.9000508@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4F07AE7B.7090500@frontier.com> To do it yourself, here ya go: > http://www.archive.org/details/storagebatterie00paggoog You can read it on line, download it to your Kindle, or buy a copy from Lindsay Publications (I have a copy on the shelf). My grandfather had a fairly thriving automotive electrical business in Colorado in the '30s. A major part of their work was rebuilding storage batteries. A battery explosion cost him all of the sight in one eye and a good bit of it in the other. That and a flood pretty much put an end to the business. Doug Braun wrote: > In the olden days, Ford's parts catalog listed individual plates for > their batteries. I guess it was normal for the local mechanic to > unseal and remove the top of the battery case and replace failed > internal parts. > > Today that would be quite impossible... > > Doug > > > >> On 1/5/2012 6:28 PM, John Mitchell wrote: >>> Does anyone know of a service that will rebuild a car battery in it's >>> original case? I've got a Lucas Pacesetter that holds a full charge but >>> when I put a carbon pile load on it, drops very quickly. Thanks for any >>> help. John Mitchell Shelton, CT > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From cavanadd at frontier.com Fri Jan 6 19:44:51 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 18:44:51 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] question about cheap air compressors In-Reply-To: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> References: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <4F07B1A3.2080506@frontier.com> I only have one blue PVC air hose and it's a PITA to use at anything much below 55 degrees or so. It's a huge pain to use with air tools so it's been left in the garage for inflating purposes only. BJNoSHOV8 wrote: > 1. I bought a new small air compressor (Husky brand) from Home Depot > for my home use. I just need something for light duty, and this was > technically a Christmas present from my wife. I don't know which type of > air connector it needs. It comes with a female fitting and from the > appearance it must need a short male fitting, contrary to my experience > in my father's shop where he had all long fittings. > > 2. For light duty home use, does it matter which type of hose I use? I > see hoses for sale made from PVC, rubber, and polyurethane. I gather > that PVC is stiffer, or maybe just stiffer in cold weather. I'm on a > tight budget so I don't want to buy more than I really need. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From bspidell at comcast.net Fri Jan 6 19:59:38 2012 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 18:59:38 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] question about cheap air compressors In-Reply-To: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> References: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <4F07B51A.4080904@comcast.net> The connector is almost certainly the 'industrial' type: http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-solid-brass-industrial-uick-coupler-set-68237.html Get rubber hose; plastic is too stiff and a PITA. Can't go wrong with this (can also get another 20% off with their ubiquitous coupons): http://www.harborfreight.com/25-ft-x-3-8-eighth-inch-heavy-duty-black-rubber-air-hose-2363.html Cheers, Bob On 1/6/2012 6:16 PM, BJNoSHOV8 wrote: > 1. I bought a new small air compressor (Husky brand) from Home Depot for my home use. I just need something for > light duty, and this was technically a Christmas present from my wife. I don't know which type of air connector it > needs. It comes with a female fitting and from the appearance it must need a short male fitting, contrary to my > experience in my father's shop where he had all long fittings. > > 2. For light duty home use, does it matter which type of hose I use? I see hoses for sale made from PVC, rubber, and > polyurethane. I gather that PVC is stiffer, or maybe just stiffer in cold weather. I'm on a tight budget so I don't > want to buy more than I really need. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jan 6 20:14:51 2012 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 19:14:51 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] question about cheap air compressors In-Reply-To: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> References: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <006701ccccea$85b580a0$912081e0$@rr.com> > I don't know which type > of air connector it needs. It comes with a female fitting and from the > appearance it must need a short male fitting, My _guess_ would be 1/4" "Industrial" as shown here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-quick-disconnect-hose-couplings/=fp1i7z HF sells a "starter kit" that you might be interested in: http://tinyurl.com/6relhw3 or just the fittings for cheap: http://tinyurl.com/85vo2jv > 2. For light duty home use, does it matter which type of hose I use? My limited experience is that the quality of the hose is more important than the material. Cheap hoses fail within a year or two, while the better ones (even PVC) seem to last much longer. My hands are usually greasy (I mostly use air tools to work on cars), and apparently the grease degrades the cheap hose materials. -- Randall From mark at bradakis.com Fri Jan 6 20:33:36 2012 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:33:36 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] question about cheap air compressors In-Reply-To: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> References: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <4F07BD10.1090303@bradakis.com> Avoid the plastic hoses if at all possible. They are cheap, but the one good feature about them is they are cheap. If you live somewhere that never sees temperatures drop below 70 F you might be okay. Out in the garage I have a Goodyear rubber hose that I've been using since about 197? It does have an end fitting that is starting to leak, I'll fix that when I get the super dooper crimping tools from my sister. Try to keep your hoses, whatever the type, out of sunlight. UV is bad for them. mjb. From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jan 6 21:27:45 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 23:27:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] question about cheap air compressors In-Reply-To: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> References: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: A rubber hose will lie flat on your garage floor. A plastic hose will continue to be slinky-shaped- it will snag on everything as you pull it around, and you will constantly trip over the coils. I have one of those spring-loaded retractable reels with 50 feet of (rubber) hose mounted on my garage wall. I thought it was an extravagance when I bought it 5 years ago, but it has paid for itself many times. Same goes for my retractable work-light and retractable extension cord. Doug On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 9:16 PM, BJNoSHOV8 wrote: > > 2. For light duty home use, does it matter which type of hose I use? I see > hoses for sale made from PVC, rubber, and polyurethane. I gather that PVC > is stiffer, or maybe just stiffer in cold weather. I'm on a tight budget so > I don't want to buy more than I really need. From ronnie.day at gmail.com Mon Jan 9 12:07:21 2012 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 13:07:21 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Covers? Message-ID: We're bringing the 510s back to the house Saturday. One will be under a car port, the other under a pop-up. I want to get covers for both, but don't want to spend $150 - $200 each. I hope to get the cars inside again in a few months and will get better covers then. I'd appreciate suggestions for sources. TIA, Ron From pat at hornesystemstx.com Mon Jan 9 16:44:02 2012 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2012 17:44:02 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Covers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F0B7BC2.90501@hornesystemstx.com> Ronnie, It's been years since I bought a cover, but the one I got was from J.C. Whitney. I don't recall what I paid for it, but not that much. I am not using it right now, though I should be. It'[s for a Roadster, which may not fit the 510, but it will be better than nothing. So next time you come down near Austin, you can borrow this one. I'll check it out tomorrow to see how it looks. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Ronnie Day, On 1/9/2012 1:07 PM: > We're bringing the 510s back to the house Saturday. One will be under a car > port, the other under a pop-up. I want to get covers for both, but don't > want to spend $150 - $200 each. I hope to get the cars inside again in a > few months and will get better covers then. I'd appreciate suggestions for > sources. > > TIA, > Ron > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From obaa996 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 9 18:29:53 2012 From: obaa996 at yahoo.com (Obaa) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 17:29:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Aluminum exhaust tubing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Mildly esoteric question.. Can aluminum tubing be used in an exhaust? Details: I have a "vintage" motorcycle ('86 Suzuki GSXR-1100); it is pristine (since I am the original owner :) It's had a aftermarket Yoshimura stainless exhaust for it's entire life, though I've had to repack the baffle numerous times. The header and midpipe are in perfect shape, being SS, but at this point, the inner core of the baffle has disintegrated, and Yoshimura no longer offers the parts for repair. The midpipe is 2" o.d.; the available replacement baffle is 2.25" i.d. Otherwise, everything would go together perfectly. I originally thought of getting a piece of SS tubing with 2" i.d. x 2.25" o.d. dimensions to slip the parts together, but I could not find such a pipe. Then I thought maybe get a strip of SS plate .125" thick, until I realized I could not form it that nicely/tightly. Then I saw that aluminum tubing is available in that dimension. My concern are if it would hold up to the heat (I would think so, given that baffles are made of aluminum), if the heat expansion issues might cause a problem (it'll be sandwiched by SS), and if there might be a corrosion issue (dissimilar metals, etc.). Do you think it would work, or should I try coming up with something else? From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Mon Jan 9 19:25:29 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2012 21:25:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Aluminum exhaust tubing? In-Reply-To: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F0BA199.2030209@gmail.com> You want to make the baffle in the can from aluminum tube? I'd think you can get away with that. Have you tried calling Yosh (or any other pipe maker) and asking about a section of tube? Or even an exhaust fabber? Someone has to be able to get that size tube, I'd think. On 1/9/2012 8:29 PM, Obaa wrote: > Mildly esoteric question.. Can aluminum tubing be used in an exhaust? > > Details: I have a "vintage" motorcycle ('86 Suzuki GSXR-1100); it is pristine > (since I am the original owner :) It's had a aftermarket Yoshimura stainless > exhaust for it's entire life, though I've had to repack the baffle numerous > times. The header and midpipe are in perfect shape, being SS, but at this > point, the inner core of the baffle has disintegrated, and Yoshimura no longer > offers the parts for repair. > The midpipe is 2" o.d.; the available replacement > baffle is 2.25" i.d. Otherwise, everything would go together perfectly. I > originally thought of getting a piece of SS tubing with 2" i.d. x 2.25" o.d. > dimensions to slip the parts together, but I could not find such a pipe. Then > I thought maybe get a strip of SS plate .125" thick, until I realized I could > not form it that nicely/tightly. Then I saw that aluminum tubing is available > in that dimension. My concern are if it would hold up to the heat (I would > think so, given that baffles are made of aluminum), if the heat expansion > issues might cause a problem (it'll be sandwiched by SS), and if there might > be a corrosion issue (dissimilar metals, etc.). Do you think it would work, > or should I try coming up with something else? From fishplate at gmail.com Mon Jan 9 19:36:31 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 21:36:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Aluminum exhaust tubing? In-Reply-To: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Obaa wrote: > I > originally thought of getting a piece of SS tubing with 2" i.d. x 2.25" o.d. > dimensions to slip the parts together, but I could not find such a pipe. McMaster-Carr lists some thin-wall Stainless Steel pipe. Something there might be close...go to mcmaster.com and search for Thin-Wall Stainless Steel Unthreaded Pipe... Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Mon Jan 9 20:22:04 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 22:22:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Aluminum exhaust tubing? In-Reply-To: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have bought steel from On-Line Metals. I see they have SS tubing listed. Not sure how the price compares to McMaster-Carr. SS tube 2.25" OD X 2.01" ID http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7044&step=4&showunits=inches&id=19&top_cat=1 Or Aluminum tube 2.25" OD X 2" ID http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7045&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=60 Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > I originally thought of getting a piece of SS tubing with 2" i.d. x 2.25" > o.d. > dimensions to slip the parts together, but I could not find such a pipe. From shochschild at att.net Mon Jan 9 22:23:25 2012 From: shochschild at att.net (shochschild at att.net) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2012 23:23:25 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Aluminum exhaust tubing? In-Reply-To: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1326158993.11475.YahooMailNeo@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F0BCB4D.4020001@att.net> Seems to me you are missing the big picture. This is the perfect opportunity to buy a lathe... On 1/9/2012 7:29 PM, Obaa wrote: > Mildly esoteric question.. Can aluminum tubing be used in an exhaust? > > Details: I have a "vintage" motorcycle ('86 Suzuki GSXR-1100); it is pristine > (since I am the original owner :) It's had a aftermarket Yoshimura stainless > exhaust for it's entire life, though I've had to repack the baffle numerous > times. The header and midpipe are in perfect shape, being SS, but at this > point, the inner core of the baffle has disintegrated, and Yoshimura no longer > offers the parts for repair. > The midpipe is 2" o.d.; the available replacement > baffle is 2.25" i.d. Otherwise, everything would go together perfectly. I > originally thought of getting a piece of SS tubing with 2" i.d. x 2.25" o.d. > dimensions to slip the parts together, but I could not find such a pipe. Then > I thought maybe get a strip of SS plate .125" thick, until I realized I could > not form it that nicely/tightly. Then I saw that aluminum tubing is available > in that dimension. My concern are if it would hold up to the heat (I would > think so, given that baffles are made of aluminum), if the heat expansion > issues might cause a problem (it'll be sandwiched by SS), and if there might > be a corrosion issue (dissimilar metals, etc.). Do you think it would work, > or should I try coming up with something else? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 10 06:49:50 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 07:49:50 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative Message-ID: I just bought a new gravely zero turn mower (to cut the grass surrounding my shop) and it likes non-ethanol fuel. The closest place I can find it is about 60 miles away... Are there any additives or alternative methods to treat ethanol fuel so it doesn't do it's damage to a Kawasaki 24 hp engine ??? Ethanol is the fuel of the devil ! thanks John I used to be indecisive.... but now I'm not so sure From ejrussell at mebtel.net Tue Jan 10 07:30:30 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:30:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05B79BBAB9954AD98FA788D4F5C22BE7@EricJRussellPC> > The closest place I can find it is about 60 miles away... I assume you have looked here: http://pure-gas.org/ Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Jan 10 07:50:33 2012 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:50:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When done mowing, turn off the fuel shutoff valve and let the carb run dry. If there is no fuel shutoff valve, install one! Doug On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 8:49 AM, john niolon wrote: > I just bought a new gravely zero turn mower (to cut the grass surrounding my > shop) and it likes non-ethanol fuel. The closest place I can find it is about > 60 miles away... Are there any additives or alternative methods to treat > ethanol fuel so it doesn't do it's damage to a Kawasaki 24 hp engine ??? > > Ethanol is the fuel of the devil ! > > thanks > John > > > I used to be indecisive.... > but now I'm not so sure > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug at dougbraun.com From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 10 08:07:12 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:07:12 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: <05B79BBAB9954AD98FA788D4F5C22BE7@EricJRussellPC> References: <05B79BBAB9954AD98FA788D4F5C22BE7@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: Eric... yep... little blue pointers all over Alabama but nothing close to Birmingham.. Doug... that is S.O.P. on all my small engine stuff... first thing I do if no fuel shutoff is install one ! and ALWAYS run them dry j ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J Russell" To: "john niolon" ; "shop-talk" Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative >> The closest place I can find it is about 60 miles away... > > I assume you have looked here: http://pure-gas.org/ > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4132 - Release Date: 01/09/12 From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 10 08:52:10 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 10:52:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F0C5EAA.9030809@gmail.com> If John's not doing that, I second that suggestion. But I'll note that I do that for all my stuff too, and some of it seems to have internal components that don't play nice with even the film left there, or don't like ever coming into contact with it at all, or the gas and/or additives are particularly nasty sometimes. The fuel lines on old string trimmer I had disintegrated or gummed up at slightest provocation, and the blower's jets forever had gunk in them, I suspect from something upstream doing the same thing as the string trimmer. I used to have a mower like that too. That trick seems to work on my new blower and trimmer, though. The new mower I don't run dry, but it doesn't get enough time off for anything nasty to happen in the fuel system, I think. On 1/10/2012 9:50 AM, Doug Braun wrote: > When done mowing, turn off the fuel shutoff valve and let the carb run dry. > If there is no fuel shutoff valve, install one! From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Jan 10 16:37:39 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:37:39 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 7:49 AM, john niolon wrote: > I just bought a new gravely zero turn mower (to cut the grass surrounding my > shop) and it likes non-ethanol fuel. B The closest place I can find it is about > 60 miles away... Are there any additives or alternative methods to treat > ethanol fuel so it doesn't do it's damage to a Kawasaki 24 hp engine ??? > > Ethanol is the fuel of the devil ! Why did you buy a defective engine? Something that doesn't work with gasoline out of the pump as it currently exists, and is going to exist for the foreseeable future is defective. There are all sorts of engines that work just fine with gasoline; get one. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 10 19:26:05 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 20:26:05 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative References: Message-ID: <38B01827C0EC423CA2BFCBCE7F8C3A1D@john5043a2d406> I sent an email to Gravely tech about the ethanol and warranty issues. The tech group assured me that 10% or less would be fine in the mower with no loss of warranty. It's not an out of date engine it's a 24 hp Kawasaki twin cylinder that is used in dozens of brands of mowers, tractors (lawn) and zero turns. Gravely's been around a long long time building good commercial equipment. I was just wondering if there was anything out there that would cancel out the effects of Ethanol. I run blue Stabil in all my mower and equipment fuel... which helps with the water absorption... guess that's about all I can do for now... thanks for the comments and help john ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4734 - Release Date: 01/10/12 From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 10 21:39:55 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:39:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: <38B01827C0EC423CA2BFCBCE7F8C3A1D@john5043a2d406> References: <38B01827C0EC423CA2BFCBCE7F8C3A1D@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: <4F0D129B.5080801@gmail.com> Another thought (and I'm not recommending this, just thinking out loud here): I run old race gas I don't want to run in my bikes any more through the yard equipment sometimes. $8/gallon isn't cheap to cut the grass, but then again I don't use a lot of it (except in the mower). Some brands have lead, but none of the implements seems to mind. You know, in case you happen to have a can of VP laying around or something... On 1/10/2012 9:26 PM, John Niolon wrote: > I sent an email to Gravely tech about the ethanol and warranty > issues. The tech group assured me that 10% or less would be fine in > the mower with no loss of warranty. It's not an out of date engine > it's a 24 hp Kawasaki twin cylinder that is used in dozens of brands > of mowers, tractors (lawn) and zero turns. Gravely's been around a > long long time building good commercial equipment. I was just > wondering if there was anything out there that would cancel out the > effects of Ethanol. I run blue Stabil in all my mower and equipment > fuel... which helps with the water absorption... guess that's about > all I can do for now... > > thanks for the comments and help From jibjib at att.net Tue Jan 10 22:36:12 2012 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:36:12 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6DEDA2C4B8FA47DDA2ED902655ADB3F5@EntCentPC> I believe I read that Congress did not renew the Federal subsidy for Ethanol. Hopefully that is true and ethanol in our gasoline will die on the stalk, if not subsidized by you and me. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:50 AM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative I just bought a new gravely zero turn mower (to cut the grass surrounding my shop) and it likes non-ethanol fuel. The closest place I can find it is about 60 miles away... Are there any additives or alternative methods to treat ethanol fuel so it doesn't do it's damage to a Kawasaki 24 hp engine ??? Ethanol is the fuel of the devil ! thanks John I used to be indecisive.... but now I'm not so sure _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Wed Jan 11 05:13:01 2012 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 07:13:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: <6DEDA2C4B8FA47DDA2ED902655ADB3F5@EntCentPC> References: <6DEDA2C4B8FA47DDA2ED902655ADB3F5@EntCentPC> Message-ID: Unfortunately not; it is apparently scheduled to increase. > The tariff, like the tax credit, expired Saturday. But the requirement to use increasing amounts of ethanol in gasoline continues. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/business/energy-environment/after-three-de cades-federal-tax-credit-for-ethanol-expires.html?_r=1 My local gas-only station caved to price pressures last year and switched to 10% ethanol, lowered prices, and increased net revenues (according to the owner). -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:36 AM To: 'shop-talk' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative I believe I read that Congress did not renew the Federal subsidy for Ethanol. Hopefully that is true and ethanol in our gasoline will die on the stalk, if not subsidized by you and me. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:50 AM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative I just bought a new gravely zero turn mower (to cut the grass surrounding my shop) and it likes non-ethanol fuel. The closest place I can find it is about 60 miles away... Are there any additives or alternative methods to treat ethanol fuel so it doesn't do it's damage to a Kawasaki 24 hp engine ??? Ethanol is the fuel of the devil ! thanks John I used to be indecisive.... but now I'm not so sure _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org From pj_thomas at comcast.net Wed Jan 11 07:43:29 2012 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:43:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] non ethanol fuel alternative In-Reply-To: References: <6DEDA2C4B8FA47DDA2ED902655ADB3F5@EntCentPC> Message-ID: <4F0DA011.3060809@comcast.net> On 1/11/2012 7:13 AM, shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/business/energy-environment/after-three-de > cades-federal-tax-credit-for-ethanol-expires.html?_r=1 In colder climates, ethanol was added seasonally as an oxidizer in place of MBTE. MBTE was turning up in well water. The subsides may have changed the ethonal additive from seasonal to year round. I guess at best it might go back to seasonal. Peter T. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Jan 11 19:17:16 2012 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:17:16 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tachometers Message-ID: <073a01ccd0d0$4eaac090$ec0041b0$@rr.com> Has anyone tried either the contact http://goo.gl/BZ98H or non-contact tachometers from HF? http://goo.gl/usd3Q I'd like to map out the various spindle speeds for my 10" lathe, vertical mill & drill press; plus I occasionally want to know how fast some other shaft is turning. For example, at the moment, I'm trying to repair an old speedometer and it would be a lot easier to test if I could spin it with a drill motor and know what it should be reading rather than having to install it in the car and take a drive. -- Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jan 13 22:11:00 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:11:00 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tachometers In-Reply-To: <073a01ccd0d0$4eaac090$ec0041b0$@rr.com> References: <073a01ccd0d0$4eaac090$ec0041b0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4DFD7B06-EF52-4149-AB60-F777FDB4CCBD@gmail.com> On Jan 11, 2012, at 8:17 PM, "Randall" wrote: > Has anyone tried either the contact > http://goo.gl/BZ98H > or non-contact tachometers from HF? > http://goo.gl/usd3Q > I've used one much like that. Worked fine. I was using it on a pulley. $30 seems steep. Look around. ( but even $30 is cheap enough to try it ) One thing to investigate is what the smallest diameter it can deal with is. > I'd like to map out the various spindle speeds for my 10" lathe, vertical > mill & drill press; plus I occasionally want to know how fast some other > shaft is turning. For example, at the moment, I'm trying to repair an old > speedometer and it would be a lot easier to test if I could spin it with a > drill motor and know what it should be reading rather than having to install > it in the car and take a drive. > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Sat Jan 14 15:36:18 2012 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:36:18 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] question about cheap air compressors In-Reply-To: <4F07B51A.4080904@comcast.net> References: <4F07AAF8.1070703@tx.rr.com> <4F07B51A.4080904@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4F120362.3040001@tx.rr.com> I picked up the starter set ("industrial" connectors) at HarborFreight yesterday, on sale for $6. They do not fit the connector on my compressor. I guess this is not a big deal, I just need to pick up a new coupler to put on the compressor. I haven't found rubber hose at any local store except HF, and they only have the black hose. I was going to pick up a hose on ebay, but my father said he has a big roll of it. > The connector is almost certainly the 'industrial' type: > > http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-solid-brass-industrial-uick-coupler-set-68237.html From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Sun Jan 15 17:07:05 2012 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:07:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tachometers In-Reply-To: <073a01ccd0d0$4eaac090$ec0041b0$@rr.com> References: <073a01ccd0d0$4eaac090$ec0041b0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <003901ccd3e2$c91332d0$5b399870$@cablespeed.com> Check e bay for a machinist's tachometer. It is a little device that looks like a large key. The "pointy" end has a little pyramid shaped tip that you push into the drill or lathe chuck. This turns a dial that you have set to 0 and then you run it for a minute and check the reading. I know that Lufkin made one. From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jan 15 21:01:00 2012 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:01:00 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tachometers In-Reply-To: <003901ccd3e2$c91332d0$5b399870$@cablespeed.com> References: <073a01ccd0d0$4eaac090$ec0041b0$@rr.com> <003901ccd3e2$c91332d0$5b399870$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: <033401ccd403$75d203f0$0201a8c0@randall> > Check e bay for a machinist's tachometer. It is a little > device that looks > like a large key. Thanks, Gerald. I am familiar with those, but using one is somewhat problematic for me as I don't carry a watch (nor a wall clock in the shop area). It also makes me nervous to have my hand near a spinning shaft while I have to look away at something else. And I like the idea of being able to measure surface speed directly, rather than having to do the computation. Instead, I picked up one of the digital contact types at HF this morning. In fact, I just came in from measuring all 16 lathe speeds (but haven't tried to check the numbers for consistency yet). It seems to work well enough. The readings are not rock-solid, but I think that is probably because the lathe and it's single phase induction motor don't actually hold a constant speed very well. The reading got more stable when I laid my hand on the chuck (to provide a bit of load) and the worst case waver was less than 1% of the reading. -- Randall From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 17 06:47:06 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 07:47:06 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN Message-ID: Something new popped up to occupy my time... whirlpool dishwasher has decided to make unusual noises. it sounds like water hammer ... but very fast vibration... not one quick thump like when you turn a faucet off and it bangs. I can feel a vibration in the sink faucet when it happens... usually only hear it when the washer is filling or using water. If I turn on the sink faucet it stops, but that tends to waste a lot of water... I'm thinking the fill valve/solonoid is going bad... what do you guys think ??? thanks John "Be Yourself" is about the worst advice you can give some people From pj_thomas at comcast.net Tue Jan 17 07:42:21 2012 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 09:42:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F1588CD.7070807@comcast.net> On 1/17/2012 8:47 AM, john niolon wrote: > Something new popped up to occupy my time... whirlpool dishwasher has decided > to make unusual noises. > > it sounds like water hammer ... but very fast vibration... not one quick thump > like when you turn a faucet off and it bangs. I can feel a vibration in the > sink faucet when it happens... usually only hear it when the washer is filling > or using water. If I turn on the sink faucet it stops, but that tends to > waste a lot of water... > > I'm thinking the fill valve/solonoid is going bad... what do you guys think > ??? > > thanks > John I've had similar problems especially with the toilets. I quieted it by cutting back the flow with the shut off value. Peter T. > > "Be Yourself" is about the > worst advice you can give > some people > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 07:50:40 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 09:50:40 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: <4F1588CD.7070807@comcast.net> References: <4F1588CD.7070807@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4F158AC0.8090603@gmail.com> At the risk of getting kicked off the list, the smartest thing I ever did with regard to home appliance repair is find a local guy that's REALLY good at that, and cheap. My only complaint is that he won't fix water heaters--says it's cheaper to just replace them. I'd *like* to know how to do it myself, and it frustrates me that most appliances are simple machines that any moron can fix. But each time something breaks for the last few years, I weigh posting on here and learning the ins and outs of whatever it was that cratered and trying to DIY...or calling him. Calling him always wins. I guess if you don't have that guy where you are, then my best guess for your dishwasher is what you said--something in the fill valve is bad. I'd replace it. On 1/17/2012 9:42 AM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > On 1/17/2012 8:47 AM, john niolon wrote: >> Something new popped up to occupy my time... whirlpool dishwasher >> has decided >> to make unusual noises. >> >> it sounds like water hammer ... but very fast vibration... not one >> quick thump >> like when you turn a faucet off and it bangs. I can feel a >> vibration in the >> sink faucet when it happens... usually only hear it when the washer >> is filling >> or using water. If I turn on the sink faucet it stops, but that >> tends to >> waste a lot of water... >> >> I'm thinking the fill valve/solonoid is going bad... what do you guys >> think >> ??? From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 17 08:01:03 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 09:01:03 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: <4F158AC0.8090603@gmail.com> References: <4F1588CD.7070807@comcast.net> <4F158AC0.8090603@gmail.com> Message-ID: Scott I'm like you... I come here first for advise on the fix and I'm still cheap enough and enjoy tinkering enough to at least consider doing it myself. Shop-talk gurus always have an answer and let me know whether it's above my level of daring or now. Fill valve ??? Hey, I can do that... my problem is getting down on the floor to do it (and getting back up). Wish I had a local guy... had one and he padlocked the doors...small business is hard to keep running these days. I hate it ... now I have to drive 25-30 miles to buy parts when he used to be 4 miles away. john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN > At the risk of getting kicked off the list, the smartest thing I ever did > with regard to home appliance repair is find a local guy that's REALLY > good at that, and cheap. My only complaint is that he won't fix water > heaters--says it's cheaper to just replace them. > > I'd *like* to know how to do it myself, and it frustrates me that most > appliances are simple machines that any moron can fix. But each time > something breaks for the last few years, I weigh posting on here and > learning the ins and outs of whatever it was that cratered and trying to > DIY...or calling him. Calling him always wins. > > I guess if you don't have that guy where you are, then my best guess for > your dishwasher is what you said--something in the fill valve is bad. I'd > replace it. > > On 1/17/2012 9:42 AM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: >> On 1/17/2012 8:47 AM, john niolon wrote: >>> Something new popped up to occupy my time... whirlpool dishwasher has >>> decided >>> to make unusual noises. >>> >>> it sounds like water hammer ... but very fast vibration... not one quick >>> thump >>> like when you turn a faucet off and it bangs. I can feel a vibration >>> in the >>> sink faucet when it happens... usually only hear it when the washer is >>> filling >>> or using water. If I turn on the sink faucet it stops, but that tends >>> to >>> waste a lot of water... >>> >>> I'm thinking the fill valve/solonoid is going bad... what do you guys >>> think >>> ??? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4147 - Release Date: 01/16/12 From jblair1948 at cox.net Tue Jan 17 08:04:24 2012 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:04:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: <4F1588CD.7070807@comcast.net> References: <4F1588CD.7070807@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20120117100229.04e521f0@cox.net> At 09:42 AM 1/17/2012, Peter J. Thomas wrote: >I've had similar problems especially with the toilets. I quieted it by cutting back >the flow with the shut off value. I think Peter may have something there. If the washer is broken in the shut off valve, either at the sink or in input to the dish washer, it would cause that. When I was in San Diego, I had a friend that had that with one of the sinks. I replaced the washers and it solved the problem. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Jan 17 08:29:34 2012 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:29:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F1593DE.2050106@xxiii.com> Sounds like a good guess on the diagnosis (the valve.) And if it's like my Mom's Whirpool, it's pretty cheap and easy to get to. Hers is designed to let you attach the supply line with the unit fully in place just by removing the kick panel, and it's right in front directly connected to the valve. I like to use Sears.com for parts. They have good diagrams and prices and up front shipping charges. And they list real part numbers, so you can google them and try other places. But they're usually very competitively priced. For obligatory S.T. content -- I find my dishwasher very good for cleaning plastic car parts. There is also a very BAD bit of house wife advice floating around: "put your kitchen sink sponges in the dishwasher to clean and sterilize them." DO NOT DO IT! Mom's clogged up and the repair guy tore out the drain assy and it was packed with colorful blue and yellow chunks of sponge. Oh Joy! We cleaned a few 30 cent sponges and it only cost a $150 repair call! -Wayne On 1/17/2012 8:47 AM, john niolon wrote: > it sounds like water hammer ... but very fast vibration... not one quick thump > like when you turn a faucet off and it bangs. I can feel a vibration in the >....... > I'm thinking the fill valve/solonoid is going bad... what do you guys think From tputland at charter.net Tue Jan 17 09:25:11 2012 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:25:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) Message-ID: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> I got a check in the mail a few weeks ago. It was for this settlement. The checm amount? A whopping $8.20! woohoo On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Skip Albright wrote: > http://www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com/ > > > Skip > > > At 03:18 PM 8/16/2011, you wrote: >> Do you remember where you registered? I never was able to find >> that..... >> >> Thanks >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Skip Albright wrote: >> >>> I chased it down and registered, but never heard any more about it. >>> >>> Skip >>> >>> At 01:46 PM 8/16/2011, you wrote: >>>> Anyone ever see any thing from this? I was never able to find >>>> somewhere to register as part of the suit..... >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Wayne wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 1/16/2011 2:59 AM, Randall wrote: >>>>>>> Does anyone know if there is a way to validate this as true >>>>>>> or a scam? >>>>> >>>>> It appears legit. And as Randal pointed out, they don't appear to >>>>> be trying to scam any info from anyone. If there have been >>>>> "copycat" versions of it that are scams, well... neither a new >>>>> scheme nor the original guy's fault. >>>>> >>>>> I got it, and I have sold parts and a car during the time frame >>>>> stated. It also came to my email address used exclusively for >>>>> ebay, which doesn't normally see any spam/scam messages. >>>>> >>>>> You can see the registration info for the domain name here: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com >>>>> >>>>> The "AB Data" company that owns it has a web site saying they do >>>>> "class action administration". I'd like to know what the whole >>>>> thing is about. I can not find any info on the alleged wrong >>>>> doing that prompted it. >>>>> >>>>> -Wayne >>>>> ______ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/salbrigh at nycap.rr.com >>> >>> Nothing is as it appears >>> Skip Albright >>> Glenmont NY >>> salbrigh at nycap.rr.com >>> http://www.volvoskip.com/ >> >> Nothing is as it appears >> Skip Albright >> Glenmont NY >> salbrigh at nycap.rr.com >> http://www.volvoskip.com/ From jdinnis at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 09:47:01 2012 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:47:01 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: Mine was $0.05 On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Tim wrote: > I got a check in the mail a few weeks ago. It was for this settlement. The > checm amount? A whopping $8.20! woohoo > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Skip Albright wrote: > > http://www.**ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com/ >> >> >> Skip >> >> >> At 03:18 PM 8/16/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Do you remember where you registered? I never was able to find that..... >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Skip Albright wrote: >>> >>> I chased it down and registered, but never heard any more about it. >>>> >>>> Skip >>>> >>>> At 01:46 PM 8/16/2011, you wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anyone ever see any thing from this? I was never able to find >>>>> somewhere to register as part of the suit..... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Tim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------** >>>>> ------------------------------**----- >>>>> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Wayne wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 1/16/2011 2:59 AM, Randall wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone know if there is a way to validate this as true >>>>>>>> or a scam? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> It appears legit. And as Randal pointed out, they don't appear to be >>>>>> trying to scam any info from anyone. If there have been "copycat" versions >>>>>> of it that are scams, well... neither a new scheme nor the original guy's >>>>>> fault. >>>>>> >>>>>> I got it, and I have sold parts and a car during the time frame >>>>>> stated. It also came to my email address used exclusively for ebay, which >>>>>> doesn't normally see any spam/scam messages. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can see the registration info for the domain name here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.networksolutions.**com/whois-search/** >>>>>> ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com >>>>>> >>>>>> The "AB Data" company that owns it has a web site saying they do >>>>>> "class action administration". I'd like to know what the whole thing is >>>>>> about. I can not find any info on the alleged wrong doing that prompted it. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Wayne >>>>>> ______ >>>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> >>>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html >>>>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/** >>>>> options/shop-talk/salbrigh@**nycap.rr.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> Nothing is as it appears >>>> Skip Albright >>>> Glenmont NY >>>> salbrigh at nycap.rr.com >>>> http://www.volvoskip.com/ >>>> >>> >>> Nothing is as it appears >>> Skip Albright >>> Glenmont NY >>> salbrigh at nycap.rr.com >>> http://www.volvoskip.com/ >>> >> ______________________________**_________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/** > options/shop-talk/jdinnis@**gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Tue Jan 17 09:54:56 2012 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:54:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <001801ccd538$bece55a0$3c6b00e0$@cablespeed.com> Hey, I got a check for 34 cents ! When I cashed it, the teller told me not to "blow it all in one place." The only people who came out on this were the lawyers. (So what else is new!) From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jan 17 10:03:06 2012 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:03:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <159942816.816228.1326819786690.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim" > To: "Shop15Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:25:11 AM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) > I got a check in the mail a few weeks ago. It was for this settlement. > The checm amount? A whopping $8.20! woohoo You are a real Ebay high-roller. I have my check right here: $0.34 Yup,you read that right: thirty-four cents American. It's dated 11/21/2011, and get this: It is labeled "VOID AFTER DECEMBER 22, 2011". Huh? How's that work, a check only good for a month? I guess I have to either shred it or frame it. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com From shannahquilts at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 10:40:11 2012 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 09:40:11 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: <4F1593DE.2050106@xxiii.com> References: <4F1593DE.2050106@xxiii.com> Message-ID: Agreed. It's far better, in my opinion, to use dish cloths that can go in the washing machine, or get a knitter friend to make some knitted ones. Those can also go in the washing machine. There are tons of knitted dish cloth patterns out there, but if someone wants a really simple one, just let me know and I'll send it on. The other nice thing about using dish cloths is that they make very nice shop rags when they're two groady (spelling?) to use on the dishes. I find that the plastic sponges rinse out tons better than the common cellulose ones, and I really wish I could find a source for them. Shannah On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Wayne wrote: > > There is also a very BAD bit of house wife advice floating around: "put > your kitchen sink sponges in the dishwasher to clean and sterilize them." > DO NOT DO IT! Mom's clogged up and the repair guy tore out the drain assy > and it was packed with colorful blue and yellow chunks of sponge. Oh Joy! > We cleaned a few 30 cent sponges and it only cost a $150 repair call! > > -Wayne From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 17 11:09:38 2012 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:09:38 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: References: <4F1593DE.2050106@xxiii.com> Message-ID: wow... a lady that knows the word groady and USES it... I'll bet Shannah has her own tools too. !!!!! j ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannah Miller" To: "Wayne" Cc: "Shop Talk List" Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN > Agreed. It's far better, in my opinion, to use dish cloths that > can go in the washing machine, or get a knitter friend to make > some knitted ones. Those can also go in the washing machine. > > There are tons of knitted dish cloth patterns out there, but if > someone wants a really simple one, just let me know and I'll > send it on. > > The other nice thing about using dish cloths is that they make > very nice shop rags when they're two groady (spelling?) to use > on the dishes. > > I find that the plastic sponges rinse out tons better than the > common cellulose ones, and I really wish I could find a source > for them. > > Shannah > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Wayne wrote: >> >> There is also a very BAD bit of house wife advice floating around: "put >> your kitchen sink sponges in the dishwasher to clean and sterilize them." >> DO NOT DO IT! Mom's clogged up and the repair guy tore out the drain >> assy >> and it was packed with colorful blue and yellow chunks of sponge. Oh >> Joy! >> We cleaned a few 30 cent sponges and it only cost a $150 repair call! >> >> -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4148 - Release Date: 01/17/12 From elans4 at cox.net Tue Jan 17 11:11:21 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:11:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <159942816.816228.1326819786690.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> <159942816.816228.1326819786690.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <004001ccd543$6ab05d50$401117f0$@net> pethier at comcast.net wrote: > > I have my check right here: $0.34 <...> > I guess I have to either shred it or frame it. Years ago, the company I worked for decided to shut down between Christmas and New Years. The problem was with payroll. About half the people had checks that were the same pay period after pay period. The other half's amount fluctuated up and down a penny. To make things simple, the company just duplicated the previous paycheck and issued it during the shutdown. Then they corrected the amount after the new year. They had to issue about 10,000 paychecks in the amount of $0.01. I think that everyone that got them just hung them on the wall (as an example of how little they made :-) ). That caused accounting problems with 10,000 un-cashed checks on the books... Tim Mullen From elans4 at cox.net Tue Jan 17 11:18:45 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:18:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120117100229.04e521f0@cox.net> References: <4F1588CD.7070807@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20120117100229.04e521f0@cox.net> Message-ID: <004101ccd544$73a35c40$5aea14c0$@net> John T. Blair wrote: > > I've had similar problems especially with the toilets. I > quieted it by cutting back the flow with the shut off value. If you are suffering "water hammer" effects - the hammering of the pipes after you shut off a faucet, that is easy to fix. It's caused by the air chamber(s) in the system becoming filled with water. The cure is to turn off you water, open all the faucets, etc. and let all the water drain out of the pipes. Then turn off everything, and turn the water back on. Then go around and open each faucets in turn until the air is expelled and you have water flowing again. This process drains the water that has filled the air chamber(s) and allowed the air to be trapped in them again. Now there is chambers in the pipes that can absorb the "air hammering" by compressing the air. As for the dishwasher problem, I agree with the others, it's probably the fill valve. They are relatively easy to change, and really hard to mess up. I'd give replacing it a try (I done it myself). Tim Mullen From pj_thomas at comcast.net Tue Jan 17 11:18:55 2012 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:18:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120117100229.04e521f0@cox.net> References: <4F1588CD.7070807@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20120117100229.04e521f0@cox.net> Message-ID: <4F15BB8F.7040101@comcast.net> On 1/17/2012 10:04 AM, John T. Blair wrote: > At 09:42 AM 1/17/2012, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > > >I've had similar problems especially with the toilets. I quieted it > by cutting back > >the flow with the shut off value. > > I think Peter may have something there. If the washer is broken in > the shut off > valve, either at the sink or in input to the dish washer, it would > cause that. > > When I was in San Diego, I had a friend that had that with one of the > sinks. I > replaced the washers and it solved the problem. In my case the when the valve opened it would be hammered with too much pressure, bouncing back and partially closing. At the right pressure it would oscillate. Since turning on the sink solves the problem this may be cause. Sounds exactly like what happening here. Turning on the sink reduces the pressure and the noise stops. John's case I would run the dishwasher and while it's making the noise start closing the shutoff valve until the noise stops. I always cut back the shutoff valves to the toilets, dishwasher and clothes washer to avoid surprises in the shower. Only down side is slower fill times. Peter T. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Jan 17 11:19:49 2012 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:19:49 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0d4c01ccd544$9ba0a270$d2e1e750$@rr.com> > I'm thinking the fill valve/solonoid is going bad... what do you guys > think ??? Makes sense to me. My KitchenAid made some weird noises just before the fill valve died. Oddly enough, although the original was a single solenoid & valve; the replacement was two of them in series. Redundancy I guess. -- Randall From phoenix722 at comcast.net Tue Jan 17 11:46:47 2012 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:46:47 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) References: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net><159942816.816228.1326819786690.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <004001ccd543$6ab05d50$401117f0$@net> Message-ID: I had a friend who years ago bought a car part from across the state. They shipped the part ok, but then sent a LETTER (no email those days), saying he owed another five cents. He ignored it, so they send a second letter. This time he taped a dime to a letter saying he didn't have change. They sent him another letter, with a check for five cents. Accountants! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ----- Original Message ----- From: Mullen To: pethier at comcast.net ; 'Tim' Cc: 'Shop15Talk' Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) pethier at comcast.net wrote: > > I have my check right here: $0.34 <...> > I guess I have to either shred it or frame it. Years ago, the company I worked for decided to shut down between Christmas and New Years. The problem was with payroll. About half the people had checks that were the same pay period after pay period. The other half's amount fluctuated up and down a penny. To make things simple, the company just duplicated the previous paycheck and issued it during the shutdown. Then they corrected the amount after the new year. They had to issue about 10,000 paychecks in the amount of $0.01. I think that everyone that got them just hung them on the wall (as an example of how little they made :-) ). That caused accounting problems with 10,000 un-cashed checks on the books... Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Jan 17 12:13:21 2012 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:13:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <4F15C851.7070405@xxiii.com> On 1/17/2012 11:25 AM, Tim wrote: > I got a check in the mail a few weeks ago. It was for this settlement. > The checm amount? A whopping $8.20! woohoo I got $4.96! wonder how the attys made out?! -w From mdporter at dfn.com Tue Jan 17 12:14:15 2012 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:14:15 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: References: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net><159942816.816228.1326819786690.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <004001ccd543$6ab05d50$401117f0$@net> Message-ID: <4F15C887.4040801@dfn.com> On 1/17/2012 11:46 AM, Mike Sinclair wrote: > I had a friend who years ago bought a car part from across the state. They > shipped the part ok, but then sent a LETTER (no email those days), saying he > owed another five cents. He ignored it, so they send a second letter. This > time he taped a dime to a letter saying he didn't have change. They sent him > another letter, with a check for five cents. > > My favorite story along these lines was from a guy I knew in the army (who was, even in the `60s, far geekier than many today when it came to computers, etc.) who had taken out a department store account while he was working in Washington, DC, and after being drafted, when he was going to Vietnam, wrote them a check to pay off his balance and close it out. Almost immediately, he started getting overdue notices, demanding payment of $0.00. After a couple of months, the threatening letters followed him to the helicopter unit he was at in Dong Tam, and were getting progressively nastier, the bill would be sent to collections, etc. He would dutifully write them back and tell them he didn't owe them anything, to no avail. Finally, he said, he realized that no matter how many letters he sent them, this was just a programming error that no one had felt was worth bothering to fix, so he sent them a check for $0.00, and no more trouble. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 12:59:19 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:59:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: <4F1593DE.2050106@xxiii.com> References: <4F1593DE.2050106@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4F15D317.1040306@gmail.com> On 1/17/2012 10:29 AM, Wayne wrote: > Sounds like a good guess on the diagnosis (the valve.) And if it's > like my Mom's Whirpool, it's pretty cheap and easy to get to. Hers is > designed to let you attach the supply line with the unit fully in > place just by removing the kick panel, and it's right in front > directly connected to the valve. That's where it is on ours too. Still a PITA because it's hard to turn a wrench in the space provided, but the line attaches just behind the kick panel. > For obligatory S.T. content -- I find my dishwasher very good for > cleaning plastic car parts. Oh man...don't do this. Well, don't do it at my house, anyway. I thought the detergent and hot water would erase all, uh, evidence. It didn't. A good time was not had by all. I've decided my shop needs its own dedicated washing machine and dishwasher. Maybe a bar too, while I'm at it. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 14:57:24 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:57:24 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: References: <4F1593DE.2050106@xxiii.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Shannah Miller wrote: > I find that the plastic sponges rinse out tons better than the > common cellulose ones, and I really wish I could find a source > for them. > McMaster carr item 7271T32 is what you want, I think -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From shannahquilts at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 16:04:40 2012 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:04:40 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] MY DISHWASHER IS A RUMBLIN In-Reply-To: References: <4F1593DE.2050106@xxiii.com> Message-ID: I do, I have a few different tool boxes/bags for different jobs. It's tons easier to find the tool I want if it's in the box with all the other tools for that kind of job. (Plumbing, electrical, stained glass, minor household, etc.) Since I share my tools with my family, this reduces lost tools. In terms of washing parts in the dishwasher, while I would not recommend it, I can see why people might do it. To get the dishwasher clean, you can try running it on a cycle with some sort of lemon drink mix in it. Kool-Aid unsweetened is the best, although Country Time Lemonaid mix does a pretty good job. I agree about having a washing machine for the shop. I like to use towels for most shop stuff, and really don't like washing them in the regular clothes washer. I'm planning to put a clothesline in my garage for hanging them to dry. This one does a great job - "Leifheit 83040 Rollfix Mounted Retractable Clothes Dryer". Shannah On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:09 AM, john niolon wrote: > wow... a lady that knows the word groady and USES it... I'll bet Shannah has > her own tools too. !!!!! From pethier at comcast.net Wed Jan 18 08:20:42 2012 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:20:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <4F15C887.4040801@dfn.com> Message-ID: <300061882.863498.1326900042005.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > My favorite story along these lines was from a guy I knew in the army > (who was, even in the `60s, far geekier than many today when it came > to > computers, etc.) who had taken out a department store account while he > was working in Washington, DC, and after being drafted, when he was > going to Vietnam, wrote them a check to pay off his balance and close > it > out. Almost immediately, he started getting overdue notices, demanding > payment of $0.00. After a couple of months, the threatening letters > followed him to the helicopter unit he was at in Dong Tam, and were > getting progressively nastier, the bill would be sent to collections, > etc. He would dutifully write them back and tell them he didn't owe > them anything, to no avail. Finally, he said, he realized that no > matter how many letters he sent them, this was just a programming > error > that no one had felt was worth bothering to fix, so he sent them a > check > for $0.00, and no more trouble. Did they cash the check? Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com From elans4 at cox.net Wed Jan 18 12:18:24 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:18:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <4F15C887.4040801@dfn.com> References: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net><159942816.816228.1326819786690.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <004001ccd543$6ab05d50$401117f0$@net> <4F15C887.4040801@dfn.com> Message-ID: <005101ccd615$f3a44c70$daece550$@net> Michael Porter wrote: > > getting overdue notices, demanding payment of $0.00. I used to work for a guy (back in the mid-70's that had a similar story. Only they sent the bill on a punched computer card (remember those?). He got tired of calling and getting nowhere, so he took the bill to the keypunch room and did a multi-punch in the first tow columns (a 7, an 8, and a 9 if I remember correctly). This was effectively and "end of file" on any computer stream. On the card he wrote "Call" and his phone number. A few days later, he got an angry call complaining that he aborted their entire processing job and would have to start over. He explained to them that he would continue doing this until they fixed their system. He never got another call and no more bills. Don't know if the story was true, but it sounded plausible at the time (and knowing him). Tim From marka at maracing.com Wed Jan 18 18:52:46 2012 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 20:52:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <005101ccd615$f3a44c70$daece550$@net> References: <436ee866.1606e4.134ec7c8843.Webtop.48@charter.net><159942816.816228.1326819786690.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <004001ccd543$6ab05d50$401117f0$@net> <4F15C887.4040801@dfn.com> <005101ccd615$f3a44c70$daece550$@net> Message-ID: Howdy, Reminds me of this cartoon (which will presumably be back tomorrow, after the SOPA protest) http://xkcd.com/327/ Mark On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Mullen wrote: > Michael Porter wrote: >> >> getting overdue notices, demanding payment of $0.00. > > I used to work for a guy (back in the mid-70's that had a similar story. > > Only they sent the bill on a punched computer card (remember those?). He > got tired of calling and getting nowhere, so he took the bill to the > keypunch room and did a multi-punch in the first tow columns (a 7, an 8, and > a 9 if I remember correctly). This was effectively and "end of file" on any > computer stream. On the card he wrote "Call" and his phone number. A few > days later, he got an angry call complaining that he aborted their entire > processing job and would have to start over. He explained to them that he > would continue doing this until they fixed their system. He never got > another call and no more bills. > > Don't know if the story was true, but it sounded plausible at the time (and > knowing him). > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com From jandkstone99 at msn.com Thu Jan 19 15:55:35 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:35 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? Message-ID: I put a new parking brake cable on my Alpine a few years ago and it was never really right from the beginning; I had to take up all of the slack in it in order to get the brakes to hold, and this was with relatively new rear shoes that were properly adjusted. Well, it didn't take much stretching of the cable for the 'just barely holding' to turn into 'not really very effective' and I just replaced it today with a new one. However, that one is also too long and after a bit of modification (I added a few extra threads on the adjusting bolt) it is now at the 'just barely holding' stage. The two cables are from totally different manufacturers, leading me to think that it is something about my car, not the cables. It is, after all, an LBC. I have a couple of options for fixing the situation, but the easiest would be to shorten the cable. The stock cable is about 1/8" steel and has a ferrule crimped on it at the end. Moving the ferrule an inch would more than do the trick. I don't trust my ability to crimp something new on securely enough and was thinking about fabricating and welding in a new ferrule. Is that feasible with a MIG welder? I've never heard of anyone welding cable, but it seems possible. I certainly don't want this failing at the wrong time, so I'll explore Plan B if this is a really bad idea. Thanks. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jan 19 16:29:24 2012 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:29:24 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001701ccd702$2ea7ff50$8bf7fdf0$@rr.com> I've heard that it is practically impossible to weld braided cables like that and have it be strong, due to oil and contamination between the wires. But I have used one of these, and it worked as advertised http://goo.gl/27mmM -- Randall From strovato at optonline.net Thu Jan 19 16:32:25 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:32:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0LY200FCDK4BP0G0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I wouldn't try welding. I have heard that motorcycle shops do this sort of thing (not by welding). I would see if one of them could help. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 05:55 PM 1/19/2012, Jim Stone wrote: > Moving the ferrule an inch would more than do the >trick. I don't trust my ability to crimp something new on securely enough and >was thinking about fabricating and welding in a new ferrule. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 16:40:20 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:40:20 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > > I have a couple of options for fixing the situation, but the easiest would be > to shorten the cable. B The stock cable is about 1/8" steel and has a ferrule > crimped on it at the end. B Moving the ferrule an inch would more than do the > trick. B I don't trust my ability to crimp something new on securely enough and > was thinking about fabricating and welding in a new ferrule. B Is that feasible > with a MIG welder? B I've never heard of anyone welding cable, but it seems > possible. B I certainly don't want this failing at the wrong time, so I'll > explore Plan B if this is a really bad idea. > No, you're not likely to weld wire rope. They can be silver soldered though, depending on the fittings, and how it's put together. It's also the end isn't terribly uncommon (or the other end isn't.). Motorcycle shops do a fair amount of cable fabrication, and crane riggers do tons of it. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Jan 19 16:53:10 2012 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:53:10 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F18ACE6.4000901@hornesystemstx.com> Jim, There are cable shorteners that will work if the cable is not in a sheath all the way back. It looks like 2 triangular plates with bolts or studs through 2 of the corners. At the third corner there is a hole in a block between the plates that allows a hook to go through between the studs and pulls the cable down. It is easier to see one than describe it. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Jim Stone, On 1/19/2012 4:55 PM: > I put a new parking brake cable on my Alpine a few years ago and it was never > really right from the beginning; I had to take up all of the slack in it in > order to get the brakes to hold, and this was with relatively new rear shoes > that were properly adjusted. Well, it didn't take much stretching of the > cable for the 'just barely holding' to turn into 'not really very effective' > and I just replaced it today with a new one. However, that one is also too > long and after a bit of modification (I added a few extra threads on the > adjusting bolt) it is now at the 'just barely holding' stage. The two cables > are from totally different manufacturers, leading me to think that it is > something about my car, not the cables. It is, after all, an LBC. > > I have a couple of options for fixing the situation, but the easiest would be > to shorten the cable. The stock cable is about 1/8" steel and has a ferrule > crimped on it at the end. Moving the ferrule an inch would more than do the > trick. I don't trust my ability to crimp something new on securely enough and > was thinking about fabricating and welding in a new ferrule. Is that feasible > with a MIG welder? I've never heard of anyone welding cable, but it seems > possible. I certainly don't want this failing at the wrong time, so I'll > explore Plan B if this is a really bad idea. > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Jan 19 16:55:20 2012 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 17:55:20 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F18AD68.8010601@hornesystemstx.com> Here is a picture from O'Rilly's http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BHH0/H13002.oap?pt=N0265&ppt=C0064 Thusly spake Jim Stone, On 1/19/2012 4:55 PM: > I put a new parking brake cable on my Alpine a few years ago and it was never > really right from the beginning; I had to take up all of the slack in it in > order to get the brakes to hold, and this was with relatively new rear shoes > that were properly adjusted. Well, it didn't take much stretching of the > cable for the 'just barely holding' to turn into 'not really very effective' > and I just replaced it today with a new one. However, that one is also too > long and after a bit of modification (I added a few extra threads on the > adjusting bolt) it is now at the 'just barely holding' stage. The two cables > are from totally different manufacturers, leading me to think that it is > something about my car, not the cables. It is, after all, an LBC. > > I have a couple of options for fixing the situation, but the easiest would be > to shorten the cable. The stock cable is about 1/8" steel and has a ferrule > crimped on it at the end. Moving the ferrule an inch would more than do the > trick. I don't trust my ability to crimp something new on securely enough and > was thinking about fabricating and welding in a new ferrule. Is that feasible > with a MIG welder? I've never heard of anyone welding cable, but it seems > possible. I certainly don't want this failing at the wrong time, so I'll > explore Plan B if this is a really bad idea. > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From ejrussell at mebtel.net Thu Jan 19 16:59:45 2012 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:59:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd like to hear plan B first. I'd wonder if welding the cable would weaken it or cause hard/inflexible areas. Can you add a spacer at the other end? Remove the cable and take it to someone who can put on a new end fitting? Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Stone" > I have a couple of options for fixing the situation, but the easiest would > be > to shorten the cable. > I'll explore Plan B if this is a really bad idea. From parkanzky at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 17:14:04 2012 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:14:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can you just wrap the cable around something small and secure it so that you've effectively shortened it an inch without removing any cable? I'm thinking you'd wrap it around a small bolt with a nut and two large washers on it. Tighten it down so that it stays on there and you won't have impacted the strength of the cable much. -Paul On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:40 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > > > > I have a couple of options for fixing the situation, but the easiest > would > be > > to shorten the cable. B The stock cable is about 1/8" steel and has a > ferrule > > crimped on it at the end. B Moving the ferrule an inch would more than do > the > > trick. B I don't trust my ability to crimp something new on securely > enough > and > > was thinking about fabricating and welding in a new ferrule. B Is that > feasible > > with a MIG welder? B I've never heard of anyone welding cable, but it > seems > > possible. B I certainly don't want this failing at the wrong time, so > I'll > > explore Plan B if this is a really bad idea. > > > > No, you're not likely to weld wire rope. They can be silver soldered > though, depending on the fittings, and how it's put together. It's > also the end isn't terribly uncommon (or the other end isn't.). > Motorcycle shops do a fair amount of cable fabrication, and crane > riggers do tons of it. From gsteve at hammatt.com Thu Jan 19 17:36:21 2012 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:36:21 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] In-line thermostats Message-ID: <0FF4E89E00BF4B6CB7AD0497654240EA@DesktopPC> I have a unique application for an in-line automotive thermostat to control engine temperature by controlling the water flow return to the radiator. It needs to fit in an 1-1/4b i.d. radiator hose. Anyone know of a supplier? Thanks Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From jem at milleredp.com Thu Jan 19 19:39:18 2012 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:39:18 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F18D3D6.8050201@milleredp.com> On 1/19/2012 4:14 PM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: > Can you just wrap the cable around something small and secure it so that > you've effectively shortened it an inch without removing any cable? I've got one of the little Harbor Freight hand-operated hydraulic crimping tools: http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html Bought it to do battery-cable lugs and the like, but it also done a good job swedging sleeves onto aircraft cable for gate supports and the like. I imagine it'd do a decent job of putting a button on a piece of handbrake cable or similar. John. From eric at megageek.com Thu Jan 19 20:34:41 2012 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:34:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was thinking along these lines as well. But my solution it to make a small loop with the cable, push the loop through a nut, then place a small nail in the loop to prevent it from pulling back out. You can cover the whole mess with tape or something so it wouldn't stick out too much. Just a guess. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Paul Parkanzky Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 01/19/2012 19:32 To David Scheidt , shop-talk cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? Can you just wrap the cable around something small and secure it so that you've effectively shortened it an inch without removing any cable? I'm thinking you'd wrap it around a small bolt with a nut and two large washers on it. Tighten it down so that it stays on there and you won't have impacted the strength of the cable much. -Paul On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:40 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > > > > I have a couple of options for fixing the situation, but the easiest > would > be > > to shorten the cable. B The stock cable is about 1/8" steel and has a > ferrule > > crimped on it at the end. B Moving the ferrule an inch would more than do > the > > trick. B I don't trust my ability to crimp something new on securely > enough > and > > was thinking about fabricating and welding in a new ferrule. B Is that > feasible > > with a MIG welder? B I've never heard of anyone welding cable, but it > seems > > possible. B I certainly don't want this failing at the wrong time, so > I'll > > explore Plan B if this is a really bad idea. > > > > No, you're not likely to weld wire rope. They can be silver soldered > though, depending on the fittings, and how it's put together. It's > also the end isn't terribly uncommon (or the other end isn't.). > Motorcycle shops do a fair amount of cable fabrication, and crane > riggers do tons of it. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From jandkstone99 at msn.com Thu Jan 19 21:00:34 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:00:34 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: <001701ccd702$2ea7ff50$8bf7fdf0$@rr.com> References: , <001701ccd702$2ea7ff50$8bf7fdf0$@rr.com> Message-ID: My thanks to everyone for lots of very good, and very quick, advice. It sounds like welding is definitely out, especially a used cable that is likely to have dirt embedded in the strands. While I am sure one of the other DIY methods would be fine, I don't think I want to trust my car to any of them. For $5 I will definitely pick up one of the O'Reilly's brake adjusters, if only to have it in the trunk for an emergency. Beyond that, I think my next stop will be to a motorcycle shop to see what they say about shortening the cable. As several people have noted, I would think this would be quick and easy for them. (And, easier to find than a marine shop around here.) The HF Crimping tool is very tempting - any excuse to buy a new tool - but in this case I think I will pass and let a professional handle it. Thanks again, Jim > From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com > To: jandkstone99 at msn.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:29:24 -0800 > > I've heard that it is practically impossible to weld braided cables like > that and have it be strong, due to oil and contamination between the wires. > > > But I have used one of these, and it worked as advertised > http://goo.gl/27mmM > > -- Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 21:21:57 2012 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:21:57 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] In-line thermostats In-Reply-To: <0FF4E89E00BF4B6CB7AD0497654240EA@DesktopPC> References: <0FF4E89E00BF4B6CB7AD0497654240EA@DesktopPC> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > I have a unique application for an in-line > automotive thermostat to control engine > temperature by controlling the water flow > return to the radiator. B It needs to fit in > an 1-1/4b B i.d. radiator hose. B Anyone know > of a supplier? Your favorite race car part supplier will sell you a fancy machined aluminum housing that that takes two 1.25 hoses and a Chevey t'stat between the two. See, for example, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEZ-WN0071 They're available with out input and output sizes, too. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From gsteve at hammatt.com Thu Jan 19 22:03:19 2012 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:03:19 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] In-line thermostats In-Reply-To: References: <0FF4E89E00BF4B6CB7AD0497654240EA@DesktopPC> Message-ID: David Thanks, I had found this item on another site, but it took 1-1/2" hose size. Appreciate your efforts. Now my 1932 Cadillac LaSalle can enjoy the benefits of better warm up and drivability. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA -----Original Message----- From: David Scheidt Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:21 PM To: Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] In-line thermostats On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > I have a unique application for an in-line > automotive thermostat to control engine > temperature by controlling the water flow > return to the radiator. It needs to fit in > an 1-1/4b i.d. radiator hose. Anyone know > of a supplier? Your favorite race car part supplier will sell you a fancy machined aluminum housing that that takes two 1.25 hoses and a Chevey t'stat between the two. See, for example, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEZ-WN0071 They're available with out input and output sizes, too. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4754 - Release Date: 01/19/12 From rkg at teleport.com Fri Jan 20 00:38:23 2012 From: rkg at teleport.com (Richard George) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 23:38:23 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [Shop-talk] In-line thermostats Message-ID: <13676108.1327045103361.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> How about bolting a couple of thermostat covers together with a thermostat gasket between them, modified A/R so the thermostat will fit in it? rkg (Richard George) -----Original Message----- >From: Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA >Sent: Jan 19, 2012 9:03 PM >To: David Scheidt >Cc: Shop Talk >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] In-line thermostats > >David >Thanks, I had found this item on another site, >but it took 1-1/2" hose size. >Appreciate your efforts. Now my 1932 Cadillac >LaSalle can enjoy the benefits of better >warm up and drivability. >Steve Hammatt >Mount Vernon WA USA >-----Original Message----- >From: David Scheidt >Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:21 PM >To: Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA >Cc: Shop Talk >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] In-line thermostats > >On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA > wrote: >> I have a unique application for an in-line >> automotive thermostat to control engine >> temperature by controlling the water flow >> return to the radiator. It needs to fit in >> an 1-1/4b i.d. radiator hose. Anyone know >> of a supplier? > >Your favorite race car part supplier will sell you a fancy machined >aluminum housing that that takes two 1.25 hoses and a Chevey t'stat >between the two. >See, for example, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEZ-WN0071 >They're available with out input and output sizes, too. > > > >-- >David Scheidt >dmscheidt at gmail.com > > > >----- >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4754 - Release Date: 01/19/12 >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rkg at teleport.com From fishplate at gmail.com Fri Jan 20 05:48:50 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:48:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:34 PM, wrote: > But my solution it to make a > small loop with the cable, push the loop through a nut, then place a small > nail in the loop to prevent it from pulling back out. I'm not sure how good of an idea that would be. The cable in question is part of a critical system, especially in a car with a single-cylinder brake system. When you have your service brake fail, the usefulness of a competent, dependable emergency brake cannot be overstated. Passing the cable through a nut would, in my opinion, put a sharp kink in it, especially bad when you pull it tight against sharp threads every time you use it. The specially-made cable shortener posted elsewhere in this thread is a much better alternative. Best of all, though, would be to find a shop that can swage a new end on the cable. A good general machine shop or full-service FLAPS should be able to get you going. Jeff Scarbrough Chief Safety Officer Corrosion Acres, Ga. From jszwed at energykinetics.com Fri Jan 20 07:29:28 2012 From: jszwed at energykinetics.com (Joe Szwed) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:29:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If both the cable and the ferrule were steel, I wouldn't be afraid to try and weld the end of cable to the end of the ferrule. Crimp it as good as you could first, then if you cut the cable flush with or leave it a little past the end of the ferrule then zap it with the welder, cable end to ferrule end. I don't think you would weaken anything that way, just backing up your crimp? Joe From fishplate at gmail.com Fri Jan 20 09:12:47 2012 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:12:47 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > I do have one question: Whats a FLAPS? Friendly Local Auto Parts Store... From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Jan 20 11:10:47 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:10:47 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F19AE27.5060809@gmail.com> I'm going to cry. The last one of those we had went tango uniform a few years ago. About six months ago, the bug spraying franchise truck pulls up to my house to spray...and the former owner of the FLAPS gets out and starts spraying. He didn't buy the service...he just works there. Best auto parts store I've ever been in. Now I have to deal with Discount whatever. On 1/20/2012 11:12 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Jim Stone wrote: >> I do have one question: Whats a FLAPS? > Friendly Local Auto Parts Store... From strovato at optonline.net Fri Jan 20 11:49:52 2012 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 13:49:52 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] full-service FLAPS In-Reply-To: <4F19AE27.5060809@gmail.com> References: <4F19AE27.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0LY4001DY1RYCR90@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Yes, the original quote "full-service FLAPS" had me thinking what an oxymoron that has become. The best around here is part of Carquest. Everything is Carquest, NAPA, Advance or similar. That wouldn't be so bad if they still included the "full service" part. You can't even get a rotor turned around here. The one place left that does stuff like that has a single central machine shop. You drop off at the store and pick it up in a day or two. You don't get to talk to an actual machinist to discuss options or get recommendations. At 01:10 PM 1/20/2012, Scott wrote: >I'm going to cry. The last one of those we had went tango uniform a >few years ago. About six months ago, the bug spraying franchise >truck pulls up to my house to spray...and the former owner of the >FLAPS gets out and starts spraying. He didn't buy the service...he >just works there. > >Best auto parts store I've ever been in. Now I have to deal with >Discount whatever. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jan 20 12:09:18 2012 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:09:18 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007801ccd7a7$02aaa5b0$07fff110$@rr.com> > When you have your service brake fail, > the usefulness of a competent, dependable emergency brake cannot be > overstated. Amen! Especially when said brake failure happens while going down a steep hill into an underground parking garage. I even wore out the sole of my left shoe! Result: wall 1, car 0. -- Randall From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Jan 20 12:32:28 2012 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:32:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] full-service FLAPS In-Reply-To: <0LY4001DY1RYCR90@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <4F19AE27.5060809@gmail.com> <0LY4001DY1RYCR90@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4F19C14C.2020002@gmail.com> I sang the praises of that store on this list before. There are NAPA/CarQuests here...and they're just like Discount/O'Reilly's/etc. I guess I'll just be shopping at RockAuto (or where ever it is I find the cheapest parts online) from now on. Those stores are all a joke, at least here. The last machine work I had done locally was cylinder boring on an RZ350. They gave me back an oval-shaped cylinder, and I'm still puzzled at how they managed to do that. There's no way I let anyone here touch anything else. On 1/20/2012 1:49 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Yes, the original quote "full-service FLAPS" had me thinking what an > oxymoron that has become. The best around here is part of Carquest. > Everything is Carquest, NAPA, Advance or similar. That wouldn't be so > bad if they still included the "full service" part. You can't even > get a rotor turned around here. The one place left that does stuff > like that has a single central machine shop. You drop off at the > store and pick it up in a day or two. You don't get to talk to an > actual machinist to discuss options or get recommendations. From elans4 at cox.net Fri Jan 20 14:16:54 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:16:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: <4F18D3D6.8050201@milleredp.com> References: <4F18D3D6.8050201@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <006f01ccd7b8$d62a6a40$827f3ec0$@net> John Miller wrote: > > I've got one of the little Harbor Freight hand-operated > hydraulic crimping tools: > > http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html You can also get "hand crimpers" such as: http://www.amazon.com/003-Swaging-Tool-16-32/dp/B004Z21C2E Tim Mullen From elans4 at cox.net Fri Jan 20 14:26:25 2012 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:26:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007001ccd7ba$2a180d50$7e4827f0$@net> Joe Szwed wrote: > > Crimp it as good as you could first, then if you cut > the cable flush with or leave it a little past the > end of the ferrule then zap it with the welder, cable > end to ferrule end. I don't think you would weaken > anything that way, just backing up your crimp? I would suspect that it could cause problems. Just like with electrical connectors, crimping is strongest. Soldering a connector on a wire tends to "stiffen" the wire, and the dynamic movement of the rest of the wire/cable tends to work the boundary of the flexible to "stiff" part and cause it to crack/fail. For the brake cable, I would simply crimp on a new fitting - that's what the "pros" will do. By the way, I used to have a hand tool crimper - I'd clamp it in a vise, put the ferrule on the cable, into (through) the tool, and hit the crimper mechanism with a hammer. I've got a couple of cables that are still going strong 30 years later. Tim Mullen Chantilly, VA From jem at milleredp.com Fri Jan 20 15:40:49 2012 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:40:49 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: <006f01ccd7b8$d62a6a40$827f3ec0$@net> References: <4F18D3D6.8050201@milleredp.com> <006f01ccd7b8$d62a6a40$827f3ec0$@net> Message-ID: <4F19ED71.4010206@milleredp.com> >> I've got one of the little Harbor Freight hand-operated >> hydraulic crimping tools: >> >> http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html > > You can also get "hand crimpers" such as: > > http://www.amazon.com/003-Swaging-Tool-16-32/dp/B004Z21C2E I have one of those too, used to use it for battery cables, guy wires, etc. before I got the Harbor Freight doodad. It worked well and I got a lot of use out of it. Eventually one of the bolt-holes stripped out from the jaws I used most regularly. Its tough to use for position work because you need to put a lot of leverage on the wrench when you snug down the bolts, alternating side to side, works best if you can chuck it in a vise. John. From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sat Jan 21 07:32:26 2012 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:32:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Plan B gets a little confusing to describe, which is why I left it out of my original note. But, I will do my best: The cable connects to a U-shaped bracket that attaches to the lever that pulls the right side shoes out. (Hopefully that makes sense.) There is a steel rod that attaches to the cable and works the left side. In the OEM set-up, the adjusting screw is hollow and the cable runs through it; the ferrule then rests on the outside of screw. This design allows the screw to be turned with the cable installed, making adjustment much easier. The U-bracket is just a hair longer than the cable adjusting screw+ferrule, meaning the ferrule almost rests on the lever when fully screwed in. A spacer is thus not an option. Now, the recently manufactured replacement I bought is a cheaper design, using a solid adjusting screw, with the cable attached to that. You thus have to disconnect the parking brake end of the cable in order to tighten the adjusting screw. It is a much poorer design, but it would allow me to cut off a bit of the screw, effectively shortening the cable. That doesn't do me any good at the moment, since the screw is turned all the way in. However, I could now cut and re-drill the U-shaped bracket, which should make everything work. I could also see if a machine shop could make me a new shorter one. It is pretty simple, just a U-shaped piece of strapping that is drilled at the flat end for the screw (there is a floating nut for the adjusting screw), and at the legs for the pin to hold it to the brake lever, but I don't have the tools to make a bend that tight - it is only about 1/2 inch wide. I don't have a spare bracket (at least, I don't think I do. Writing this reminds me that I should dig around my spare parts bins and boxes; I may have one I don't remember) and am hesitant to modify the one I am using. I also wonder if there is some logic behind the stock length and if shortening it will come back to haunt me in some way. Still, it is an option and writing it all down makes me think I should give that a try. > From: ejrussell at mebtel.net > To: jandkstone99 at msn.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Can steel cable be welded? > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:59:45 -0500 > > I'd like to hear plan B first. I'd wonder if welding the cable would weaken > it or cause hard/inflexible areas. > > Can you add a spacer at the other end? Remove the cable and take it to > someone who can put on a new end fitting? > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Stone" > > > I have a couple of options for fixing the situation, but the easiest would > > be > > to shorten the cable. > > > I'll explore Plan B if this is a really bad idea. From cavanadd at frontier.com Sat Jan 21 13:22:27 2012 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:22:27 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Insulating a garage door Message-ID: <4F1B1E83.3060902@frontier.com> I have a large roll up door on my shop. It's about 12 x 12, regular sectional construction, with an opener. It's also uninsulated. I was thinking of gluing regular 1" foam board insulation (like foundation insulation) to the sections using canned spray foam like Great Stuff, rather than mechanically fastening. Comments? Does the foam stick/work at lower temps or should I wait until spring?