From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sun Apr  1 06:59:10 2012
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 08:59:10 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lightweight reflective ceiling covering?
In-Reply-To: <CAOtbU9W=4_AU+0cMG7g1vQkaV-=YrNGArFEQD8jKZ-GCnT_1Hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D5F34020-87AC-4B8C-98C0-56AD6C34E112@groupwbench.org>
	<4F76800D.7060501@comcast.net>
	<A5EB7D92-F64F-4E77-A043-0815D2806234@groupwbench.org>
	<CAOtbU9W=4_AU+0cMG7g1vQkaV-=YrNGArFEQD8jKZ-GCnT_1Hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A0992310-102E-4505-A3C4-BEC187A6E238@groupwbench.org>

There are 3-4 doing that now, apparently attached to a 2x6 girder laid flat,
yet it still sags. I haven't gone up there yet to investigate, could be one
pulled out from the cement and fertilizer the PO stored up there :-\

The garage isn't that well built; the entire rear gable wall flexes, being
attached only at the perimeter. It does need a bit of work which is why I'm
reluctant to toss $$$ at it now, just to get the place lit until I put
together A Plan.

jim

On Mar 31, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Doug Braun wrote:

> How about a couple of 2x4s running vertically from each 2x6 ceiling beam up
to the (presumably stronger) roof rafters?
>
> Doug
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Jim Franklin <jamesf at groupwbench.org>
wrote:
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 11:54 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote:
>
> I welcome your suggestions on clear spanning 24' with no trusses. If it
costs
> more than $1000 I'm much more inclined to rip off the roof and build a
crash
> pad up there, at which point I'm back to square one as I don't have the
$x,000
> for a crash pad.
> ________________________________

From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sun Apr  1 20:39:06 2012
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 22:39:06 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Lightweight reflective ceiling covering?
In-Reply-To: <A0992310-102E-4505-A3C4-BEC187A6E238@groupwbench.org>
References: <D5F34020-87AC-4B8C-98C0-56AD6C34E112@groupwbench.org>
	<4F76800D.7060501@comcast.net>
	<A5EB7D92-F64F-4E77-A043-0815D2806234@groupwbench.org>
	<CAOtbU9W=4_AU+0cMG7g1vQkaV-=YrNGArFEQD8jKZ-GCnT_1Hw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A0992310-102E-4505-A3C4-BEC187A6E238@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <69DDAD31-6DF4-48B3-892D-DE0D49A498AD@groupwbench.org>

I took down so much crap from up in the rafters today, that I don't think I'd
have any issue even with 1/2" sheetrock. I knew there was stuff up there but
holy cow. What sadistic bastard puts 70lb bags of tube sand up in the rafters
when the only access is from the top of a 12' ladder through 16" o.c. joists?

For your amusement, there was also:

Bags of play sand, lime, fertilizer and other gardening crap
A dozen 4' boards of Trex
A pallet
12' lengths of 6" cedar siding
Lots of 2x6 PT lumber up to 10' long
Several 4x4s 7' long
A dozen 1x8 4' melamine shelves


And that's just the heavy stuff...all in an area about 8x8. No wonder things
were sagging. As a friend and I were outside talking we heard a pop. I think
it was a rafter getting re-acquainted with its nail.

If anyone has seen a span chart indexed by existing framing rather than
expected live/dead loads, it would help me decide how to proceed on beefing
this thing up.

jim

On Apr 1, 2012, at 8:59 AM, Jim Franklin wrote:

> There are 3-4 doing that now, apparently attached to a 2x6 girder laid
flat,
> yet it still sags. I haven't gone up there yet to investigate, could be one
> pulled out from the cement and fertilizer the PO stored up there :-\
>
> The garage isn't that well built; the entire rear gable wall flexes, being
> attached only at the perimeter. It does need a bit of work which is why I'm
> reluctant to toss $$$ at it now, just to get the place lit until I put
> together A Plan.
>
> jim

From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org  Mon Apr  2 12:05:45 2012
From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (Ian McFetridge)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:05:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Running power to the shop
In-Reply-To: <CAFnfnRXdCBO19CDd-0_w1PZ4_zFDc4zfmQ77GUDG2JtM0U0pOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d36294e.3de9b2.135f3750bba.Webtop.45@charter.net>
	<CAFnfnRXWMBVj165VkUqr5JRuY5gj7VyYfckfd74OaKc_JHD5HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CNkrD34LkT-8spEmvoho3-w7mZpW-gov7mgnP9-E-2Ohw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F597E77.9010907@xxiii.com>
	<CA+k5suqie_DmXRis+1_k5pHLE_ABbDuTT2ybn106jN+BJT+Lgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F59878D.60303@xxiii.com> <00e601ccfdb2$5aa153f0$0301a8c0@randall>
	<CAFnfnRXdCBO19CDd-0_w1PZ4_zFDc4zfmQ77GUDG2JtM0U0pOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFnfnRWJ1iKCk=OWPcN_0k_H7hVSy9D70CE_-=qG34PoU_8iXA@mail.gmail.com>

A quick update...

The trench was dug as planned, two 2" conduits were run to the garage with
two 4 ga conductors in one and Ethernet, cable, and a pull string
(Cat10000!).  The generator 4-prong twist plug is on the side of the box in
the shop with a custom-made 10 feet cable to the portable generator.  We
fired it up and the cut-over to the generator worked perfectly:  shut-off
the house main breaker, slide over the mechanical interlock and switch on
the breaker from the generator.

BTW, the inspector did require the ground at the panel in the shop and
cited article 250.32(A) for those of you who are curious. (this is NJ, so I
guess that's from the uniform code).

I do have one issue though!  I bought the mechanical interlock from
www.interlockkit.com and the laboratory they used for their UL
certification (Wyle) apparently is no longer certified.
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER&p_id=22157
  The inspector said there is a "bulletin" for products certified by by
Wyle labs.  I called Interlockkit (Master Electrical) and they confirmed
the lab did not pass its recent inspection and lost the certification.
 They offered to refund my money if the inspector does not pass my
installation because of the certification issue.  My interpretation is that
the part is still certified.  Wyle was certified when the part was tested
in 2009 and according to the OSHA site "the Agency no longer accepts
product certifications made by Wyle on or after this effective date."
(24-Aug-2011)   I have to plead my case to the inspector when he comes
back, showing him the test date and the OSHA statement.  If that fails,
I'll have to use a different interlock.  BUYER BEWARE, interlock's website
says nothing about the loss of UL certification.

On that note, can anyone recommend a 60A interlock that has a valid UL
certification?

Thanks,
Ian

From fishplate at gmail.com  Mon Apr  2 12:58:59 2012
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:58:59 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Running power to the shop
In-Reply-To: <CAFnfnRWJ1iKCk=OWPcN_0k_H7hVSy9D70CE_-=qG34PoU_8iXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d36294e.3de9b2.135f3750bba.Webtop.45@charter.net>
	<CAFnfnRXWMBVj165VkUqr5JRuY5gj7VyYfckfd74OaKc_JHD5HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CNkrD34LkT-8spEmvoho3-w7mZpW-gov7mgnP9-E-2Ohw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F597E77.9010907@xxiii.com>
	<CA+k5suqie_DmXRis+1_k5pHLE_ABbDuTT2ybn106jN+BJT+Lgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F59878D.60303@xxiii.com> <00e601ccfdb2$5aa153f0$0301a8c0@randall>
	<CAFnfnRXdCBO19CDd-0_w1PZ4_zFDc4zfmQ77GUDG2JtM0U0pOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFnfnRWJ1iKCk=OWPcN_0k_H7hVSy9D70CE_-=qG34PoU_8iXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CMju8atEcRxVQca4JchtXpHoh18TZRoEUCmVyGvpd1EZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Ian McFetridge
<shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org> wrote:
> I have to plead my case to the inspector when he comes
> back, showing him the test date and the OSHA statement.  If that fails,
> I'll have to use a different interlock.  BUYER BEWARE, interlock's website
> says nothing about the loss of UL certification.

Looking at the interlock on http://www.interlockkit.com/ , I can't see
any reason to not accept it.  It's purely mechanical, doesn't look as
if it could wear out, and absent any bending of the metal, there's no
apparent way it couldn't do what it claims to do.

From cornerexit at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 15:25:13 2012
From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 14:25:13 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids
Message-ID: <4f7e0db5.6821440a.2288.fffff993@mx.google.com>

Hello,

 

I am looking to build a 12x16 wooden shed on some mostly undeveloped rural
property to store a few tools and such. 200sqft or under gets me into the no
building permits and no taxes if not attached to the ground category. Thus
the 12x16 size.  This shed will likely need moved at least once during the
development of the property, across mostly level but not exactly smooth
ground. I will be using the tractor, dozer, or excavator to drag the shed to
its new location. And yes, I'm looking into shipping containers as well, but
at this point leaning towards a wooden shed.

 

Anyway, I'll be using some type of PT large dimensional lumber for the
skids, say 4x6.

 

Looking for ideas on how to handle the hook-up for the tow/drag. A chain
will be used from the tractor, but how to attach to the skids?

 

I was thinking maybe mount some D-rings to the end of two or more of the
skids with lag bolts, but I just don't know if those will handle the stress
without just tearing out the lag bolts.

 

Or maybe bore an inline hole through all 4 skids and string a cable or chain
through them for the width of the shed/base. The idea would be to hook the
chain from the tractor to the cable/chain on the shed at two places and
start dragging. My concern with this is a hole big enough for a truckers
chain (don't remember the size but that's what we call them on the farm) may
weaken the 4x6 too much?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks 

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 17:11:39 2012
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 18:11:39 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids
In-Reply-To: <4f7e0db5.6821440a.2288.fffff993@mx.google.com>
References: <4f7e0db5.6821440a.2288.fffff993@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5surVBzm27tQgAV10bd239rxs5UK1r6MGi5fRByHm3fA6Gg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:25 PM, cornerexit <cornerexit at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I am looking to build a 12x16 wooden shed on some mostly undeveloped rural
> property to store a few tools and such. 200sqft or under gets me into the
no
> building permits and no taxes if not attached to the ground category. Thus
> the 12x16 size. B This shed will likely need moved at least once during the
> development of the property, across mostly level but not exactly smooth
> ground. I will be using the tractor, dozer, or excavator to drag the shed
to
> its new location. And yes, I'm looking into shipping containers as well,
but
> at this point leaning towards a wooden shed.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I'll be using some type of PT large dimensional lumber for the
> skids, say 4x6.
>
>

You might also look into a trailer.  It doesn't have to work well....

> Looking for ideas on how to handle the hook-up for the tow/drag. A chain
> will be used from the tractor, but how to attach to the skids?
>
>
>
> I was thinking maybe mount some D-rings to the end of two or more of the
> skids with lag bolts, but I just don't know if those will handle the stress
> without just tearing out the lag bolts.
>
>
>
> Or maybe bore an inline hole through all 4 skids and string a cable or
chain
> through them for the width of the shed/base. The idea would be to hook the
> chain from the tractor to the cable/chain on the shed at two places and
> start dragging. My concern with this is a hole big enough for a truckers
> chain (don't remember the size but that's what we call them on the farm)
may
> weaken the 4x6 too much?

When I worked in a warehouse, we had some scissor-like pullers, for
pulling pallets that we couldn't get a fork truck to, or were broken.
There were, as a I recall, two types,  one had a pair of arms that
formed a loop to grab a hook or opening in the pallet, pulling on the
pulling end closed it and it wouldn't open under tension.  The other
had spikes on the tong arms, which gripped the side of one of the
longitudinal beams.  The harder you pulled, the harder it gripped.

Loggers use similar stuff, too.

But I don't know if I'd want to pull a shed around.  Arranging to have
a fork to lift and carry, or wheels, to roll, seems safer and less
likely to break something.

--
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From pj_thomas at comcast.net  Thu Apr  5 17:49:31 2012
From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 19:49:31 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids
In-Reply-To: <4f7e0db5.6821440a.2288.fffff993@mx.google.com>
References: <4f7e0db5.6821440a.2288.fffff993@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4F7E2F8B.5080906@comcast.net>

On 4/5/2012 5:25 PM, cornerexit wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I am looking to build a 12x16 wooden shed on some mostly undeveloped rural
> property to store a few tools and such. 200sqft or under gets me into the no
> building permits and no taxes if not attached to the ground category. Thus
> the 12x16 size.

Don't know where you are or your local the building codes.  But the 
national code says any over a certain height requires a building 
permit.  Not sure of the height (but basically if you can stand inside 
you need a permit) or which year mandates the permit (though I think 
2005).  States usually adopt national building codes for a certain year.

There can also be zoning regulation, and since you quote 200 sqft I 
assume you don't need a zoning permit.  You might check with local 
building inspector to see if the 200 sqft exception applies to the 
building permit or the zoning permit.

>    This shed will likely need moved at least once during the
> development of the property, across mostly level but not exactly smooth
> ground. I will be using the tractor, dozer, or excavator to drag the shed to
> its new location. And yes, I'm looking into shipping containers as well, but
> at this point leaning towards a wooden shed.

Probably OK for one move but the shed may rack if you go over uneven ground.

>
>
> Anyway, I'll be using some type of PT large dimensional lumber for the
> skids, say 4x6.
>
>
>
> Looking for ideas on how to handle the hook-up for the tow/drag. A chain
> will be used from the tractor, but how to attach to the skids?
>
>
>
> I was thinking maybe mount some D-rings to the end of two or more of the
> skids with lag bolts, but I just don't know if those will handle the stress
> without just tearing out the lag bolts.
>
>
>
> Or maybe bore an inline hole through all 4 skids and string a cable or chain
> through them for the width of the shed/base. The idea would be to hook the
> chain from the tractor to the cable/chain on the shed at two places and
> start dragging. My concern with this is a hole big enough for a truckers
> chain (don't remember the size but that's what we call them on the farm) may
> weaken the 4x6 too much?
If you go with the lags, don't install them until you do the move.  
Being against the ground they're likely come loose just from changes in 
humidity and freeze thaw cycles.

I'd go with long large eye bolts preferably welded closed.  Drill thru 
the sides and fasten with washer and nuts.

Peter T

From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com  Thu Apr  5 17:53:20 2012
From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 19:53:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids
In-Reply-To: <4f7e0db5.6821440a.2288.fffff993@mx.google.com>
References: <4f7e0db5.6821440a.2288.fffff993@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <005601cd1387$48ec70a0$dac551e0$@cablespeed.com>

I did something similar a few years back. I used 6x6 treated timbers. Those
run into $$ fast. 

When you get ready to move it you will need to install a heavy pipe between
the two skids to keep them from being pulled together. Plan your move
carefully, it is a lot easier to pull than push so get its new location
right the first time. 

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of cornerexit
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:25 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids

Hello,

 

I am looking to build a 12x16 wooden shed on some mostly undeveloped rural
property to store a few tools and such. 200sqft or under gets me into the no
building permits and no taxes if not attached to the ground category. Thus
the 12x16 size.  This shed will likely need moved at least once during the
development of the property, across mostly level but not exactly smooth
ground. I will be using the tractor, dozer, or excavator to drag the shed to
its new location. And yes, I'm looking into shipping containers as well, but
at this point leaning towards a wooden shed.

 

Anyway, I'll be using some type of PT large dimensional lumber for the
skids, say 4x6.

 

Looking for ideas on how to handle the hook-up for the tow/drag. A chain
will be used from the tractor, but how to attach to the skids?

 

I was thinking maybe mount some D-rings to the end of two or more of the
skids with lag bolts, but I just don't know if those will handle the stress
without just tearing out the lag bolts.

 

Or maybe bore an inline hole through all 4 skids and string a cable or chain
through them for the width of the shed/base. The idea would be to hook the
chain from the tractor to the cable/chain on the shed at two places and
start dragging. My concern with this is a hole big enough for a truckers
chain (don't remember the size but that's what we call them on the farm) may
weaken the 4x6 too much?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com

From cornerexit at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 10:26:18 2012
From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 09:26:18 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids
In-Reply-To: <005601cd1387$48ec70a0$dac551e0$@cablespeed.com>
Message-ID: <4f7f1924.45e5440a.2055.19f6@mx.google.com>

Thanks for the replies. Good point about tying the skids together so they
don't collapse in towards each other.

On another note, I'm not seeing any traffic show up on the list. I just
switched from an old xp box w/outlook 2003, to a new win7 box with outlook
2003 for email locally, utilizing a gmail addy.

Has there just not been any traffic on the list? I just went and verified
that I was able to sign in on the autox main-list website ok. And all my
other email groups seem to be functioning correctly.

I notice in the header of my original message below it says From:
shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net. Is that normal?

Thanks


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Brazil [mailto:gerrybraz at cablespeed.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 4:53 PM
To: 'cornerexit'; shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids

I did something similar a few years back. I used 6x6 treated timbers. Those
run into $$ fast. 

When you get ready to move it you will need to install a heavy pipe between
the two skids to keep them from being pulled together. Plan your move
carefully, it is a lot easier to pull than push so get its new location
right the first time. 

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of cornerexit
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 5:25 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids

Hello,

I am looking to build a 12x16 wooden shed on some mostly undeveloped rural
property to store a few tools and such. 

From fishplate at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 12:07:33 2012
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 14:07:33 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids
In-Reply-To: <4f7f1924.45e5440a.2055.19f6@mx.google.com>
References: <005601cd1387$48ec70a0$dac551e0$@cablespeed.com>
	<4f7f1924.45e5440a.2055.19f6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CN5UgpRJXg_s+VLzyKi7adTyS3af3bxWLXHMQkPFhYdOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 12:26 PM, cornerexit <cornerexit at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has there just not been any traffic on the list?

This reply is sent to the list - do you see it?  It has been quiet
lately, except for the shed thread.

> I notice in the header of my original message below it says From:
> shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net. Is that normal?

Yep, I think:  Replies go to that address so they are identified as problems.

From cornerexit at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 18:28:07 2012
From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 17:28:07 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CN5UgpRJXg_s+VLzyKi7adTyS3af3bxWLXHMQkPFhYdOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4f7f8a12.6413440a.3ad3.ffff93df@mx.google.com>

Yes, this came through ok to the list so I guess I'm good.

Thanks
Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Scarbrough
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 11:08 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Building a shed on skids

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 12:26 PM, cornerexit <cornerexit at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has there just not been any traffic on the list?

This reply is sent to the list - do you see it?  It has been quiet
lately, except for the shed thread.

> I notice in the header of my original message below it says From:
> shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net. Is that normal?

Yep, I think:  Replies go to that address so they are identified as
problems.
_______________________________________________

From eric at megageek.com  Sat Apr  7 10:34:13 2012
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 10:34:13 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shaky steering wheel
Message-ID: <OFCD5E83DF.1CAD1F0B-ON852579D9.005A6F26-872579D9.006719A1@mail.megageek.com>

OK, Good afternoon all. 

Quick question, my daily driver started a really weird symptom yesterday 
on my way to church.  It seems that at low speed, turning the wheel a 
little bit creates a pretty major vibration in the front end.  This 
happens even with the truck on the lift.  I checked the power steering 
fluid and that is fine.  I don't know how to further diagnose this problem 
and I can't find anything on-line to look for.

Note, I drove the truck home w/out a problem on Thurs.  Then, during the 
day on Fri, I manually moved the truck without starting the engine (I 
turned the key to unlock the steering, then I put it in neutral and pushed 
the truck forward (and turned the wheel).)  I had to move it back an forth 
a few times like this.  Then, when I started the truck friday night, I 
noticed the shacking immediately.

So I'm guessing I caused this issue when I turned the wheel with the truck 
off.  Any ideas?  This is a 2001 Ford Explorer with 210,000 miles on it. 
(I know, but it still looks new!)  8>)  I'd love to be able to fix this 
before Easter.

Thanks again.

Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 

From battmain at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  7 13:12:10 2012
From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 12:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shaky steering wheel
In-Reply-To: <OFCD5E83DF.1CAD1F0B-ON852579D9.005A6F26-872579D9.006719A1@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFCD5E83DF.1CAD1F0B-ON852579D9.005A6F26-872579D9.006719A1@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <1333825930.39355.YahooMailNeo@web160106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

On my truck it was the hubs and tie rod ends. After replacing the hubs, the
two
inches the steering used to moved before it did anything went away. Then
the
tie rods tightened everything up more.

Other possibility  is the steering
shaft. 

Regards,
Brian



>________________________________
> From:
"eric at megageek.com" <eric at megageek.com>
>To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net 
>Sent:
Saturday, April 7, 2012 12:34 PM
>Subject: [Shop-talk] Shaky steering wheel
>
>OK, Good afternoon all. 
>
>Quick question, my daily driver started a really
weird symptom yesterday 
>on my way to church.  It seems that at low speed,
turning the wheel a 
>little bit creates a pretty major vibration in the front
end.  This 
>happens even with the truck on the lift.  I checked the power
steering 
>fluid and that is fine.  I don't know how to further diagnose this
problem 
>and I can't find anything on-line to look for.
>
>Note, I drove the
truck home w/out a problem on Thurs.  Then, during the 
>day on Fri, I
manually moved the truck without starting the engine (I 
>turned the key to
unlock the steering, then I put it in neutral and pushed 
>the truck forward
(and turned the wheel).)  I had to move it back an forth 
>a few times like
this.  Then, when I started the truck friday night, I 
>noticed the shacking
immediately.
>
>So I'm guessing I caused this issue when I turned the wheel
with the truck 
>off.  Any ideas?  This is a 2001 Ford Explorer with 210,000
miles on it. 
>(I know, but it still looks new!)  8>)  I'd love to be able to
fix this 
>before Easter.
>
>Thanks again.
>
>Eric P
>"Be as beneficent as the
sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
>being are trenched on, die
on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
>Waldo Emerson
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/battmain at yahoo.com

From bspidell at comcast.net  Sat Apr  7 14:56:50 2012
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 13:56:50 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shaky steering wheel
In-Reply-To: <OFCD5E83DF.1CAD1F0B-ON852579D9.005A6F26-872579D9.006719A1@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFCD5E83DF.1CAD1F0B-ON852579D9.005A6F26-872579D9.006719A1@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4F80AA12.8070701@comcast.net>

One of my ex-SOs had a '96 Cherokee with similar problem.  I tried new steering damper, checked hubs, tie-rods, etc. but 
couldn't find the problem.  Ended up being a brake problem.  Long story, the problem needed to be fixed and I 
couldn't/didn't have time so we sent it to the shop.  $800 and all new brakes, etc. in the frontend solved the problem.

If the shaking stops when you apply brakes that's a strong clue.

Bob


On 4/7/2012 9:34 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> OK, Good afternoon all.
>
> Quick question, my daily driver started a really weird symptom yesterday
> on my way to church.  It seems that at low speed, turning the wheel a
> little bit creates a pretty major vibration in the front end.  This
> happens even with the truck on the lift.  I checked the power steering
> fluid and that is fine.  I don't know how to further diagnose this problem
> and I can't find anything on-line to look for.
>
> Note, I drove the truck home w/out a problem on Thurs.  Then, during the
> day on Fri, I manually moved the truck without starting the engine (I
> turned the key to unlock the steering, then I put it in neutral and pushed
> the truck forward (and turned the wheel).)  I had to move it back an forth
> a few times like this.  Then, when I started the truck friday night, I
> noticed the shacking immediately.
>
> So I'm guessing I caused this issue when I turned the wheel with the truck
> off.  Any ideas?  This is a 2001 Ford Explorer with 210,000 miles on it.
> (I know, but it still looks new!)  8>)  I'd love to be able to fix this
> before Easter.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Eric P
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph
> Waldo Emerson
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>


-- 
*******************************************************************
Bob Spidell           San Jose, CA            bspidell at comcast.net

*******************************************************************

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Sun Apr  8 14:00:11 2012
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 16:00:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hub dust cover removal
In-Reply-To: <CAK73_u7nqoArQg7HNoE5Rwop+NwJm16Qm75QMGD_s1F6sp=p=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK73_u5bf4uAZt4MjN+6Ad86mCzV892fsYuG3Knr=hKwxSnHdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK73_u7nqoArQg7HNoE5Rwop+NwJm16Qm75QMGD_s1F6sp=p=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK73_u7Pq4H-q0pgB8rs6oBYC=s_NdrLDJif60xeRE++=6ZGsw@mail.gmail.com>

I bought one of those cheap Harbor Freight trailers. Need to install the
wheels. I can't get the dust covers off the hubs to bolt on the wheels.  If
I clamp onto the covers with channel locks I can spin it, but I can't get
anything between the lip of the cover and the hub. Is there some trick to
this before I punch a hole in them and pry them off?

Thanks in advance.

Scott

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Apr  9 05:22:11 2012
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 07:22:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hub dust cover removal
In-Reply-To: <4F8246AF.30202@frontier.com>
References: <CAK73_u5bf4uAZt4MjN+6Ad86mCzV892fsYuG3Knr=hKwxSnHdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK73_u7nqoArQg7HNoE5Rwop+NwJm16Qm75QMGD_s1F6sp=p=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAK73_u7Pq4H-q0pgB8rs6oBYC=s_NdrLDJif60xeRE++=6ZGsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F8246AF.30202@frontier.com>
Message-ID: <4F82C663.4050206@gmail.com>

I since I had the wheel off, I ended up using a drift to drive off the 
cover from the back, through the wheel.  When it comes time to do this 
again, I'll probably just crush them with vice grips and replace them 
with new covers, which I'll have drilled and tack-welded a nut into for 
removal next time. I probably should have done that this time, but i 
wanted the thing done and on its wheels.

Those were the worst dust covers I've ever messed with. The 'lip' 
portion was free from the 'dome' part, so that when I had the dome part 
held with the channel locks, the lip portion stayed stationary though 
the dome part rotated freely. And the lip was pressed to tight to the 
hub that I couldn't get anything sturdy-enough in-between the lip and 
the hub. Got a pocket knife blade in there...which I bent trying to pry 
off the cover.  A pick, too.  Screwdrivers and chisels wouldn't fit, and 
hammering on them did nothing, such that I started to think the cover 
lip was part of the hub.  They've both got some pretty good dents from 
the drift.

That was...a thing.

On 4/8/2012 10:17 PM, David C. wrote:
> Mine had a rib or lip on the dust cover and I put a big screwdriver 
> between the rib and the hub and pried them off.   Getting them back on 
> was more trouble than taking them off.

From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org  Mon Apr  9 08:08:28 2012
From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (Ian McFetridge)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 10:08:28 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Running power to the shop
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CMju8atEcRxVQca4JchtXpHoh18TZRoEUCmVyGvpd1EZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1d36294e.3de9b2.135f3750bba.Webtop.45@charter.net>
	<CAFnfnRXWMBVj165VkUqr5JRuY5gj7VyYfckfd74OaKc_JHD5HA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CNkrD34LkT-8spEmvoho3-w7mZpW-gov7mgnP9-E-2Ohw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F597E77.9010907@xxiii.com>
	<CA+k5suqie_DmXRis+1_k5pHLE_ABbDuTT2ybn106jN+BJT+Lgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F59878D.60303@xxiii.com> <00e601ccfdb2$5aa153f0$0301a8c0@randall>
	<CAFnfnRXdCBO19CDd-0_w1PZ4_zFDc4zfmQ77GUDG2JtM0U0pOw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFnfnRWJ1iKCk=OWPcN_0k_H7hVSy9D70CE_-=qG34PoU_8iXA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CMju8atEcRxVQca4JchtXpHoh18TZRoEUCmVyGvpd1EZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFnfnRWr+_1RhDSv4BGagd_By+LNeKZD6VGAz6J1_pm+L+x4=w@mail.gmail.com>

Just to close this saga out...we passed the re-inspection.

I showed the inspector the cut sheet for the interlock (downloaded from
http://www.interlockkit.com/)  and the OSHA ruling.
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=FEDERAL_REGISTER&p_id=22157

The inspector accepted my interpretation that the part is still certified.
Wyle was certified when the part was tested in 2009 and according to the
OSHA site "the Agency no longer accepts product certifications made by Wyle
on or after this effective date." (24-Aug-2011), so the part still holds a
valid UL listing.

If they make an interlock kit for a new panel, then they will need to use a
currently certified testing lab to get the UL listing for it.

I do agree with Jeff's point (below), but I guess some jurisdictions play
it by the book and suppress any desire to just make a commonsense call.

Now that I have power, I need to plan some renovations to make it more
useful...like doing something with the patchwork of broken concrete and
asphalt to get a level floor.

thanks again for all the advice,
Ian

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Ian McFetridge
> <shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org> wrote:
> > I have to plead my case to the inspector when he comes
> > back, showing him the test date and the OSHA statement.  If that fails,
> > I'll have to use a different interlock.  BUYER BEWARE, interlock's
> website
> > says nothing about the loss of UL certification.
>
> Looking at the interlock on http://www.interlockkit.com/ , I can't see
> any reason to not accept it.  It's purely mechanical, doesn't look as
> if it could wear out, and absent any bending of the metal, there's no
> apparent way it couldn't do what it claims to do.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org

From eric at megageek.com  Mon Apr  9 08:13:39 2012
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 10:13:39 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hub dust cover removal
In-Reply-To: <4F82C663.4050206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF33462785.548E914A-ON852579DB.004E9D6A-852579DB.004EFABC@mail.megageek.com>

Here is my advice, take a large hammer and whack that off.  Then, go to 
the local auto parts and pick up the correct size "bearing buddies" and 
replace them with the BB.

These allow you to grease the bearing with a fitting and then you are 
done.

Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Apr  9 08:53:50 2012
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 10:53:50 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hub dust cover removal
In-Reply-To: <OF33462785.548E914A-ON852579DB.004E9D6A-852579DB.004EFABC@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF33462785.548E914A-ON852579DB.004E9D6A-852579DB.004EFABC@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4F82F7FE.5050104@gmail.com>

There's already a grease fitting on the back (inside?) of the hub. Do I 
need another one on the outboard side?

I wouldn't need much of an excuse to get those things gone.

On 4/9/2012 10:13 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> Here is my advice, take a large hammer and whack that off.  Then, go to
> the local auto parts and pick up the correct size "bearing buddies" and
> replace them with the BB.
>
> These allow you to grease the bearing with a fitting and then you are
> done.

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Mon Apr  9 12:25:59 2012
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:25:59 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hub dust cover removal
In-Reply-To: <4F82F7FE.5050104@gmail.com>
References: <OF33462785.548E914A-ON852579DB.004E9D6A-852579DB.004EFABC@mail.megageek.com>
	<4F82F7FE.5050104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <058701cd167e$383bb5a0$a8b320e0$@rr.com>

> There's already a grease fitting on the back (inside?) of the hub. Do I
> need another one on the outboard side?

The Bearing Buddies in theory provide another benefit: they have a
spring-loaded piston that keeps the grease under slight positive pressure.
That way if you get the hub wet (like when launching a boat), it doesn't
suck in water.

They also make it a lot easier to add a shot of grease frequently, making it
more likely you'll do it.

-- Randall 

From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com  Mon Apr  9 12:46:08 2012
From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 14:46:08 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Steep curb/driveway fix?
Message-ID: <12117457-ED32-44AD-853E-94F6378E13F3@trebelhorn.com>

I live in an area with those semi-curbs -- there's no cut in the curb  
for the driveway, so it's fairly steep getting in.  But the "curb" is  
the same height everywhere.  I'm sure it's cheaper for the builder to  
just do one type of curb, rather than making cuts for every driveway.

Anyway, I want to make the driveway less of a bump/scrape going in.   
There's this:

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/curb+bridge.do?sortby=ourPicks

(The link also has pictures of the kind of curb/driveway I'm talking  
about.)

But that's expensive (plus ~$100 in shipping).  Any better/simpler/ 
DIY solutions?

Must look decent.  That's the big limitation, I think.

Anyway, your thoughts/suggestions are, as always, appreciated.

Thanks.
Matt

From tputland at charter.net  Mon Apr  9 12:51:55 2012
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 14:51:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Steep curb/driveway fix?
Message-ID: <3a022cc4.21b034.1369872b245.Webtop.43@charter.net>

My dad ended up using 3/4" (?) steel plate that I believe he source 
faily cheap. It was working fine until a (big, not pickup style) truck 
of some sort pulled into his driveway and bent them down. He flipped 
them over but it didn't work out all that well. Last I saw they were 
still a little humped up.

tim


On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Matt Trebelhorn wrote:

> I live in an area with those semi-curbs -- there's no cut in the curb 
> for the driveway, so it's fairly steep getting in.  But the "curb" is 
> the same height everywhere.  I'm sure it's cheaper for the builder to 
> just do one type of curb, rather than making cuts for every driveway.
>
> Anyway, I want to make the driveway less of a bump/scrape going in. 
> There's this:
>
> http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/curb+bridge.do?sortby=ourPicks
>
> (The link also has pictures of the kind of curb/driveway I'm talking 
> about.)
>
> But that's expensive (plus ~$100 in shipping).  Any better/simpler/DIY 
> solutions?
>
> Must look decent.  That's the big limitation, I think.
>
> Anyway, your thoughts/suggestions are, as always, appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
> Matt
> _______________________________________________

From mbarre at juno.com  Mon Apr  9 13:25:03 2012
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 19:25:03 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] Steep curb/driveway fix?
Message-ID: <20120409.152503.19447.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>

My neighborhood has traditional curbs with dedicated driveway aprons, but the
transition up the slope caused problems with low cars & trailers with
overhangs.I was surprised to find out that the city would come out and place
an asphalt transition with a 4" gap at no charge. They basically placed
asphalt (looked kind of like the Griot's device, but bigger) with a 4x4 in the
middle (that was removed) to allow a channel for water to run. It isn't that
pretty but it does work. After I got mine, several neighbors got them too.

Matt
AGE RES PROPRIAS TUAS

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Matt Trebelhorn <matt.lists at trebelhorn.com>
To: shop-talk List <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Steep curb/driveway fix?
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 14:46:08 -0400

I live in an area with those semi-curbs -- there's no cut in the curb
for the driveway, so it's fairly steep getting in.  But the "curb" is
the same height everywhere.  I'm sure it's cheaper for the builder to
just do one type of curb, rather than making cuts for every driveway.

Anyway, I want to make the driveway less of a bump/scrape going in.
There's this:

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/curb+bridge.do?sortby=ourPicks

(The link also has pictures of the kind of curb/driveway I'm talking
about.)

But that's expensive (plus ~$100 in shipping).  Any better/simpler/
DIY solutions?

Must look decent.  That's the big limitation, I think.

Anyway, your thoughts/suggestions are, as always, appreciated.

Thanks.
Matt
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mbarre at juno.com

From pat at hornesystemstx.com  Mon Apr  9 15:37:10 2012
From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 16:37:10 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Shaky steering wheel
In-Reply-To: <OFCD5E83DF.1CAD1F0B-ON852579D9.005A6F26-872579D9.006719A1@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFCD5E83DF.1CAD1F0B-ON852579D9.005A6F26-872579D9.006719A1@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4F835686.1060906@hornesystemstx.com>

Is the truck FWD? If so, the front axle joints could be binding.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake eric at megageek.com, On 4/7/2012 11:34 AM:
> OK, Good afternoon all.
>
> Quick question, my daily driver started a really weird symptom yesterday
> on my way to church.  It seems that at low speed, turning the wheel a
> little bit creates a pretty major vibration in the front end.  This
> happens even with the truck on the lift.  I checked the power steering
> fluid and that is fine.  I don't know how to further diagnose this problem
> and I can't find anything on-line to look for.
>
> Note, I drove the truck home w/out a problem on Thurs.  Then, during the
> day on Fri, I manually moved the truck without starting the engine (I
> turned the key to unlock the steering, then I put it in neutral and pushed
> the truck forward (and turned the wheel).)  I had to move it back an forth
> a few times like this.  Then, when I started the truck friday night, I
> noticed the shacking immediately.
>
> So I'm guessing I caused this issue when I turned the wheel with the truck
> off.  Any ideas?  This is a 2001 Ford Explorer with 210,000 miles on it.
> (I know, but it still looks new!)  8>)  I'd love to be able to fix this
> before Easter.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Eric P
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph
> Waldo Emerson
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
>
>

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From phoenix722 at comcast.net  Mon Apr  9 19:38:32 2012
From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 18:38:32 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Steep curb/driveway fix?
References: <20120409.152503.19447.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <63906A30720240529851C83A6991DA2F@Mike>

That is a great solution, but I would be surprised if the city would do that 
in this era of lack of funds, etc.  Worth a try, though.  Several of my 
neighbors have the rubber "filler", and it seems to work ok, but I would 
suggest cleaning out underneath it occasionally, as it will collect debris 
and more.  The price seems very high.  I would at least look around for a 
local supplier, to avoid the shipping.  Seems to me that the neighbors here 
paid around $100 per unit, but that may have been quite awhile ago.

I have seen people use a small pipe, with a concrete overlay, but it really 
doesn't work very well, as it has to be fairly small diameter, and the 
concrete doesn't adhere well.

And yes, practically all new curbs in residential tracts are a roll curb 
nowadays.  The savings is in the labor.

Mike


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt" <mbarre at juno.com>
To: <matt.lists at trebelhorn.com>
Cc: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Steep curb/driveway fix?


> My neighborhood has traditional curbs with dedicated driveway aprons, but 
> the
> transition up the slope caused problems with low cars & trailers with
> overhangs.I was surprised to find out that the city would come out and 
> place
> an asphalt transition with a 4" gap at no charge. They basically placed
> asphalt (looked kind of like the Griot's device, but bigger) with a 4x4 in 
> the
> middle (that was removed) to allow a channel for water to run. It isn't 
> that
> pretty but it does work. After I got mine, several neighbors got them too.
>
> Matt
> AGE RES PROPRIAS TUAS
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Matt Trebelhorn <matt.lists at trebelhorn.com>
> To: shop-talk List <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Steep curb/driveway fix?
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 14:46:08 -0400
>
> I live in an area with those semi-curbs -- there's no cut in the curb
> for the driveway, so it's fairly steep getting in.  But the "curb" is
> the same height everywhere.  I'm sure it's cheaper for the builder to
> just do one type of curb, rather than making cuts for every driveway.
>
> Anyway, I want to make the driveway less of a bump/scrape going in.
> There's this:
>
> http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/curb+bridge.do?sortby=ourPicks
>
> (The link also has pictures of the kind of curb/driveway I'm talking
> about.)
>
> But that's expensive (plus ~$100 in shipping).  Any better/simpler/
> DIY solutions?
>
> Must look decent.  That's the big limitation, I think.
>
> Anyway, your thoughts/suggestions are, as always, appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From eric at megageek.com  Tue Apr 10 14:32:08 2012
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 16:32:08 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow up on the shaky steering
Message-ID: <OF005AECCF.D80717F5-ON852579DC.0071147F-852579DC.0071A19A@mail.megageek.com>

OK, so I just wanted to follow up with the shaky steering situation on my 
truck.

I flushed all the fluid from the system, added new fluid and let that 
flush through, then I put the hose back on an filled up the system.  I 
tried to bleed it but I could get a good seal (and why is it so impossible 
to find anyone that carries a plug for bleeding power steering units under 
vacuum?) 
Anyway, none of that worked.  In fact, it seem to be worst.

So I started to call around for full replacements (rack and pinion, pump, 
lines, etc.)  When I called my local mechanic to get an estimate, he told 
me to bring it by the next day (today) and he would look at it to give me 
a price.

Well, this morning, I pulled out of the garage and I got the shaky 
steering as I pulled out.  Then, once I started driving, it was gone.  So 
I drove the mechanic and told him that I would keep driving it to see if 
it did it again.

So far, its been fine.  So it looks like a fluid flush, then sitting over 
night has cured the problem!

So, that was a $900 job saved!

Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu Apr 12 07:58:05 2012
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:58:05 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>

Gang,

I've driven manual xmissions cars all my life.  Well I just bought my 
wife a new
car with a automatic xmission.  I also just got a call from a college 
friend asking
about changing the xmission fluid.  Unfortunately, I don't know how to answer
them.  I'd say it should be changed, but how.  I know a lot of the 
sites like for
Voyager van's say to pull the line from the cooler start engine and try to keep
pouring fluid in as fast as it is coming out.  I sure don't like 
that.  Also if you
just change the fluid by dropping the xmission pan, you change less than 20%
of the fluid.

So I was wondering what the consensus was.  What do most of you all do.

What about these machines at the gas stations/shops that swap the 
fluid.  How much should it cost?

Shop content - I don't really want 10 qts of xmission fluid on the floor of my
garage. :)

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction

From mbarre at juno.com  Thu Apr 12 08:07:23 2012
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:07:23 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
Message-ID: <20120412.100723.11079.1@webmail06.vgs.untd.com>

I generally like to do it myself, but this is one area I have decided to farm
out.The replacement machines are the way to go and I just shop around for the
best local price.I has been years since I last did it and it was a different
geo area so I have no idea on current rates.

MattColumbus, GA


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net>
------------------------------------------------------
So I was wondering what the consensus was.  What do most of you all do.

What about these machines at the gas stations/shops that swap the
fluid.  How much should it cost?

From fishplate at gmail.com  Thu Apr 12 08:10:14 2012
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 10:10:14 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7COk-iQ8QayPiJe4zA5PiP1x-Cnu-Pj13uusgj3y0t3c+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 9:58 AM, John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:
> I'd say it should be changed, but how.  I know a lot of the sites
> like for
> Voyager van's say to pull the line from the cooler start engine and try to
> keep
> pouring fluid in as fast as it is coming out.  I sure don't like that.

I've done that with my old Volvo.  Disconnect the line and run it into
a bucket.  Crank the car and let it run...when the fluid slows down,
shut it off and pour more in.  Repeat a couple of times.

>  Also
> if you
> just change the fluid by dropping the xmission pan, you change less than
20%
> of the fluid.

Not sure about the 20% - I'd guess it's more, though maybe not more
than half.  But that's what I usually do - gives me a chance to change
the filter too.

Some manufacturers say you never need to change the fluid at all.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

From marka at maracing.com  Thu Apr 12 09:32:08 2012
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 11:32:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,


On Thu, 12 Apr 2012, John T. Blair wrote:
> say to pull the line from the cooler start engine and try to keep 
> pouring fluid in as fast as it is coming out.  I sure don't like that.
...
> So I was wondering what the consensus was.  What do most of you all do.
>
> What about these machines at the gas stations/shops that swap the fluid. 
> How much should it cost?

I take it to a shop that has one of those machines.  Off hand I don't 
remember the cost.

I believe that those machines just automate the manual process you 
describe though.  Basically they open one of the lines and receive the old 
fluid while providing new to the other.  I've had a former trans shop 
owner tell me that I can do what the exhange machine does with no issues, 
I just haven't wanted to deal with it.

Mark

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Thu Apr 12 13:57:38 2012
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:57:38 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>

FWIW...
I don't do automatic transmissions, so I was very lucky to find a
scrupulously honest and incredibly knowledgeable transmission shop owner 20
years ago.  He now has 28 bays, an equal amount of space for doing bench
overhauls for fleets, and they now manufacture their own torque converters
as well, after problems with their long-time converter supplier.  He's owned
the business nearly 40 years, having started working there as a high school
kid.  He's in the shop all day; he and one other 30-year employee do
virtually all the diagnosis, and he still works on the occasional tricky job
himself.  He knows transmissions of all kinds.

He owns 2 automatic transmission flushing machines, but won't use them on
customer's cars any more.  He says that the introduction of 100% new fluid
to an old, usually neglected transmission is too often more than the old
seals can take, and major leaks often arise soon after a complete flush.
Further, he says that some settled stuff that wasn't previously a problem
can be dissolved loose and get back into circulation during a power flush
with all fresh fluid.  His take is that the amount changed with a standard
transmission service is completely adequate and far safer, particularly for
older transmissions.  He also doesn't believe in switching to synthetic
fluid except as part of a full overhaul, for the same reasons.

Their standard transmission service is the usual - clean the pan and replace
the filter, accompanied by a valve body removal, cleaning, and inspection if
there were any symptoms or lots of stuff in the pan.  Then button it back
up, refill, and road test.

YMMV.
Karl


-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Andy
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:32
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change

Howdy,


On Thu, 12 Apr 2012, John T. Blair wrote:
> say to pull the line from the cooler start engine and try to keep 
> pouring fluid in as fast as it is coming out.  I sure don't like that.
...
> So I was wondering what the consensus was.  What do most of you all do.
>
> What about these machines at the gas stations/shops that swap the fluid. 
> How much should it cost?

I take it to a shop that has one of those machines.  Off hand I don't
remember the cost.

I believe that those machines just automate the manual process you describe
though.  Basically they open one of the lines and receive the old fluid
while providing new to the other.  I've had a former trans shop owner tell
me that I can do what the exhange machine does with no issues, I just
haven't wanted to deal with it.

Mark
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/kvacek at ameritech.net

From elans4 at cox.net  Thu Apr 12 14:55:54 2012
From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 16:55:54 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net>

On the subject of auto transmissions...

Years ago, I rebuilt the auto trans in my old Blazer.  It wasn't difficult
at all (easier than taking apart an engine).  Basically take apart the
trans, and put it all back together with new seals, o-rings, and clutch
plates.  I did have to make a couple of "tools" out of angle iron and
threaded rod that I used to compress the springs in the clutch packs to
remove the snap ring holding them together - it was actually quite simple.

One thing I did do (and recommend to others) was to install a drain in the
pan - drilled a hole, and installed the fitting (bolt on the inside to hold
it to the hole.  I also replaced the torque converter with a new
"performance" one that also had a drain fitting.  

To change the fluid, you rotated the torque converter until the drain was at
the bottom (accessed by removing the plastic cover on the front of the bell
housing) and unscrewed the drain plug.  Then you remove the drain plug from
the pan.  That drains the vast majority of the fluid in the trans.  You
still have to "pull the pan" to change the filter, but at least you don't
have fluid pouring all over you.

I recommend these two "modifications" to anyone that has to do transmission
work.

Tim Mullen

From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com  Thu Apr 12 20:32:19 2012
From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:32:19 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net>
Message-ID: <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>

I've always wondered why manufacturers don't put drain plugs in 
transmission pans.  But then now a lot of transmissions are sealed units 
and you can't even add fluid to them.

My father has owned his own garage for over 50 years and when I was 
working there we typically would do the drop pan/replace pan/refill method.

About 10 years ago I got a Taurus SHO and the online owners group had a 
different procedure for changing the fluid.  Working from memory here... 
they would pull the cooler line hose off of the cooler just behind the 
bumper, let the engine run with fluid being pumped out of this line 
until the flow slowed down, stop the engine, drop the pan, change the 
filter, put the pan back.  Then they would add something like 10 quarts 
of fluid to the trans, maybe more I don't remember.  Start the engine 
and let it run while it pumps out fluid until the color of the fluid 
changes, then stop the engine, reconnect the cooler line, fill the 
transmission to the correct level and you are done.

I did this procedure with my first car and it worked fine.  Then I sold 
that car and bought another one, one with low mileage.  When I tried the 
procedure with the second car the trans would pump the fluid out very 
slowly.  I completed the fluid change and 10,000 miles later the 
transmission self destructed (60k total miles).  The bushing that the 
torque converter runs in failed, maybe the pump failed first.  I had the 
transmission rebuilt by what was supposed to be the best shop in town.  
10k miles later the transmisson failed again.  Unfortunately those 
transmissions were known to be failure prone, I just got lucky with the 
first one.

I think there are lots of people that never change transmission fluid 
over the life of the car.  I have seen some cars with 100k miles or more 
that would start slipping, probably never had the fluid changed before, 
and after putting in a new filter they worked fine again.

Of course YMMV.  I am a believer in regular fluid changes according to 
the interval recommended in the owners manual.

> One thing I did do (and recommend to others) was to install a drain in the
> pan - drilled a hole, and installed the fitting (bolt on the inside to hold
> it to the hole.

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Fri Apr 13 07:58:46 2012
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:58:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net> <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20120413094826.04d249c8@cox.net>

At 10:32 PM 4/12/2012, BJNoSHOV8 wrote:

 >I've always wondered why manufacturers don't put drain plugs in transmission
 >pans.

Agreed!!!!

 >About 10 years ago I got a Taurus SHO and the online owners group had a
 >different procedure for changing the fluid.  Working from memory 
here... they
 >would pull the cooler line hose off of the cooler just behind the 
bumper, let the
 >engine run with fluid being pumped out of this line until the flow 
slowed down...

That's the same proceedure I've heard.  But I'm affraid of that.  It 
wouldn't take
long to trash the xmission pumps if they run dry.

 >I think there are lots of people that never change transmission 
fluid over the life
 >of the car.  I have seen some cars with 100k miles or more that would start
 >slipping, probably never had the fluid changed before, and after 
putting in a
 >new filter they worked fine again.

Well, the Chrysler mini van has people with over 200K mi on their 
xmission.  Unfortunately, I've not had that type of luck:

89 Voyager 3 spd - replaced xmission at 135K mi.
95 Taurus            - replaced xmission at  75K mi and at about 170K mi
95 Voyager 4 spd - replaced xmission at  140K mi

I know waiting too long to do it, doesn't do much good.  So at about 30K mi
I don't know.  I'm thinking that the milage is low enough that the xmission
doesn't have a lot of crap built up and a flush would increase the life of the
xmission.

Glad to hear the input from the group, especially on high milage xmissions.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Fri Apr 13 10:16:05 2012
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:16:05 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120413094826.04d249c8@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net> <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20120413094826.04d249c8@cox.net>
Message-ID: <002a01cd1990$baf1b480$30d51d80$@ameritech.net>

John - phenomenal mileage on those Chrysler minivan transmissions.
Especially the A-604 Mitsubishi-designed 4-speed electronic automatic.

We ordered a new 1989 Grand Caravan, the third and last car I've ever bought
new.  Mitsubishi V-6 and a Chrysler-built, Mitsubishi-designed 4-speed
electronic overdrive automatic transmission - the soon-to-be infamous A-604.
First transmission gave symptoms within 36 hours of purchase, but when I
took it to the dealer all I got was "No Defect Noted At This Time".  2 weeks
later it stranded me 30 miles away.  Dealer installed a new transmission.  A
year later, about 12,000 miles, the transmission became scrap on the
Interstate at -20F, an hour into a planned 19-day Christmas vacation.  It
had been in the dealership that afternoon for service and to check recalls.
Too bad they missed the recall for the transmission cooler shunt, which
probably would have prevented that failure.  The dealer where it was towed
when it died told me his store sold about 15 Caravans per year, but he had 7
in the shop for transmission overhauls at that time.  In fact, when the tow
truck driver dropped us at a motel after the van died, there was another tow
truck with a 1989 Voyager dropping off another transmission-stranded family
at the same time.  That went on for a total of 5 transmission replacements
or overhauls, the last one being at 72,000 miles.  The engine was also
burning oil and smoking badly again by then.  That was just beyond the
70,000-mile powertrain warrantee, but given the service history (besides 4
prior transmission replacements or overhauls. I'd also had a set of head
gaskets and then a full set of heads and finally an engine overhaul)
Chrysler agreed to replace the transmission one more time and install a new
short block.

That last transmission started going bad a little over a year later, and the
new engine was using lots of oil and beginning to smoke.  Sold the vehicle
cheap with 89,000 miles.

Karl

PS - The "Lemon Law" in Illinois didn't apply, since I didn't have enough
trouble within a short enough time.  I think it would be covered today.


>Well, the Chrysler mini van has people with over 200K mi on their xmission.
Unfortunately, I've not had that type of luck:

>89 Voyager 3 spd - replaced xmission at 135K mi.
>95 Taurus            - replaced xmission at  75K mi and at about 170K mi
>95 Voyager 4 spd - replaced xmission at  140K mi
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Apr 13 11:58:09 2012
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:58:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net> <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
Message-ID: <09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>

> I've always wondered why manufacturers don't put drain plugs in
> transmission pans.

I've heard several justifications for that; the one that seems most likely
to me is that changing transmission fluid is a rare enough occurrence that
it isn't worth the extra cost and complexity of a drain plug plus an
external oil filter (so the filter can be changed without dropping the pan).
But it's also a Good Thing IMO to wipe out the bottom of the pan, to both
remove dirt and to see any evidence of impending failure.

I guess I've been lucky, all of my vehicles with automatic transmissions
have gone essentially their entire service life with only routine
maintenance to the AT.  Except for the motorhome (Torqueflite 727 behind a
440-2) that had a tendency to overheat the ATF until I added a cooler.  The
4L60 in my current hauler has gone some 260k with only a (partial) fluid and
filter change every 100,000.

My opinion, unless you've let it go too long, changing just part of the
fluid and the filter is good enough.  The oil itself does not wear out, and
by replacing part of it you have both adequately removed a substantial
portion of the dirt, and replenished the additives that do wear out.

-- Randall 

From pat at hornesystemstx.com  Fri Apr 13 13:26:54 2012
From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:26:54 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net> <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
	<09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <4F887DFE.2020402@hornesystemstx.com>

I just changed the trans fluid on my 2008 Honda CRV. IT has a drain 
plug, which I found great, but I also found out that it did NOT have a 
trans filter, which I find a bit disturbing. I didn't drop the pan to 
check for gunk (75,000 miles), but will next time. So far it is not 
giving us a bit of trouble.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Randall, On 4/13/2012 12:58 PM:
>> I've always wondered why manufacturers don't put drain plugs in
>> transmission pans.
> I've heard several justifications for that; the one that seems most likely
> to me is that changing transmission fluid is a rare enough occurrence that
> it isn't worth the extra cost and complexity of a drain plug plus an
> external oil filter (so the filter can be changed without dropping the pan).
> But it's also a Good Thing IMO to wipe out the bottom of the pan, to both
> remove dirt and to see any evidence of impending failure.
>
> I guess I've been lucky, all of my vehicles with automatic transmissions
> have gone essentially their entire service life with only routine
> maintenance to the AT.  Except for the motorhome (Torqueflite 727 behind a
> 440-2) that had a tendency to overheat the ATF until I added a cooler.  The
> 4L60 in my current hauler has gone some 260k with only a (partial) fluid and
> filter change every 100,000.
>
> My opinion, unless you've let it go too long, changing just part of the
> fluid and the filter is good enough.  The oil itself does not wear out, and
> by replacing part of it you have both adequately removed a substantial
> portion of the dirt, and replenished the additives that do wear out.
>
> -- Randall
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
>
>

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Fri Apr 13 15:58:19 2012
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:58:19 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net> <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
	<09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <002d01cd19c0$8a680320$9f380960$@ameritech.net>

I agree that inspecting the pan is a good thing, but it's a step skipped by
many of the less-ethical shops that use flushing machines.  If they don't
drop the pan, they can't change the filter either.  I've heard quick-lube
guys more than once assure a customer that the flushing cleans everything
out and a filter change is just an unnecessary expense.  Rrrrriiiiight...

Karl

-----Original Message-----
From: Randall
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change

> I've always wondered why manufacturers don't put drain plugs in 
> transmission pans.

I've heard several justifications for that; the one that seems most likely
to me is that changing transmission fluid is a rare enough occurrence that
it isn't worth the extra cost and complexity of a drain plug plus an
external oil filter (so the filter can be changed without dropping the pan).
But it's also a Good Thing IMO to wipe out the bottom of the pan, to both
remove dirt and to see any evidence of impending failure.

From elans4 at cox.net  Sat Apr 14 18:32:35 2012
From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 20:32:35 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net> <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
	<09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <000001cd1a9f$40ffa370$c2feea50$@net>

Randall wrote:
> 
> But it's also a Good Thing IMO to wipe out the 
> bottom of the pan, to both remove dirt and to 
> see any evidence of impending failure.

Having a drain on the pan doesn't mean that you shouldn't drop the pan
(change the filter, clean, etc.)

Just that you can drain the fluid first, instead of unbolting the pan and
prying it off and having the fluid go everywhere.

Tim Mullen

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Sat Apr 14 18:59:55 2012
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 20:59:55 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <000001cd1a9f$40ffa370$c2feea50$@net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net> <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
	<09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>
	<000001cd1a9f$40ffa370$c2feea50$@net>
Message-ID: <006201cd1aa3$12fdd970$38f98c50$@mele@usermail.com>

Amen!  what were those engineers thinking??  save a nickel?????

------------


Having a drain on the pan doesn't mean that you shouldn't drop the pan
(change the filter, clean, etc.)

Just that you can drain the fluid first, instead of unbolting the pan and
prying it off and having the fluid go everywhere.

Tim Mullen

From jem at milleredp.com  Sat Apr 14 22:03:41 2012
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:03:41 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <006201cd1aa3$12fdd970$38f98c50$@mele@usermail.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net>
	<007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net> <4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com>
	<09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com>
	<000001cd1a9f$40ffa370$c2feea50$@net>
	<006201cd1aa3$12fdd970$38f98c50$@mele@usermail.com>
Message-ID: <4F8A489D.9060602@milleredp.com>

On 4/14/2012 5:59 PM, Paul Mele wrote:
> Amen!  what were those engineers thinking??  save a nickel?????

You drill the hole in the pan where you're going to weld the boss for 
the plug, then after it's drained you drop the pan and weld on the boss 
for the plug...

John.

From TR3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun Apr 15 03:49:23 2012
From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 02:49:23 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto xmission fluid change
In-Reply-To: <4F8A489D.9060602@milleredp.com>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20120412095138.04c18180@cox.net><Pine.LNX.4.64.1204121129300.10168@thunder.banklogic.net><004101cd18e6$83a4c210$8aee4630$@ameritech.net><007801cd18ee$a6efaa20$f4cefe60$@net>
	<4F879033.20506@tx.rr.com><09b701cd199e$fd47ca00$f7d75e00$@rr.com><000001cd1a9f$40ffa370$c2feea50$@net><006201cd1aa3$12fdd970$38f98c50$@mele@usermail.com>
	<4F8A489D.9060602@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <07ed01cd1aed$0a103ca0$0601a8c0@randall>

> You drill the hole in the pan where you're going to weld the boss for 
> the plug, then after it's drained you drop the pan and weld 
> on the boss 
> for the plug...

And then hope that a rock or high center doesn't take it off again.

-- Randall  

From jandkstone99 at msn.com  Sun Apr 15 10:17:19 2012
From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:17:19 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again
Message-ID: <COL115-W2113ABF236A73450FA7E6ECC390@phx.gbl>

Does anyone here have any experience the American Equipment Equipment lifts?
I have done some searching on the company and the products, and have found
many complaints about the company's business practices, but little information
about the products.  I also checked the Shop-Talk archives and didn't come up
with much.

I have a chance to buy one of their lifts used, which would avoid most of the
complaints about the business.  But, I'd still have to deal with them on any
maintenance or repairs, which is a good reason to stay away from a used one.
(Can you tell I am already talking myself out of this?)  Plus, you have to
question the product quality of a company with poor customer service.  (Two
strikes?)  Still, I figure it would be worth polling the group to see if
anyone knew anything about the product itself.

Thanks.

From shannahquilts at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 10:43:32 2012
From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again
In-Reply-To: <COL115-W2113ABF236A73450FA7E6ECC390@phx.gbl>
References: <COL115-W2113ABF236A73450FA7E6ECC390@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAAy7z=3BXjSk9Y1v1bdDejt2CFhKR9wRBksq-CJh6RNzt_cEdA@mail.gmail.com>

I guess my question would be: what are the other ones you're considering,
and how do they compare?

Shannah

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Jim Stone <jandkstone99 at msn.com> wrote:
> Does anyone here have any experience the American Equipment Equipment
lifts?
> I have done some searching on the company and the products, and have found
> many complaints about the company's business practices, but little
information
> about the products.  I also checked the Shop-Talk archives and didn't come
up
> with much.
>
> I have a chance to buy one of their lifts used, which would avoid most of
the
> complaints about the business.  But, I'd still have to deal with them on
any
> maintenance or repairs, which is a good reason to stay away from a used
one.
> (Can you tell I am already talking myself out of this?)  Plus, you have to
> question the product quality of a company with poor customer service.  (Two
> strikes?)  Still, I figure it would be worth polling the group to see if
> anyone knew anything about the product itself.
>
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com

From eric at megageek.com  Sun Apr 15 11:10:03 2012
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 13:10:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again
In-Reply-To: <COL115-W2113ABF236A73450FA7E6ECC390@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <OF3A59DE0B.07F14378-ON852579E1.005EE030-852579E1.005F0AE1@mail.megageek.com>

Jim, 

Unless you know the seller of the lift and/or the way it was used, I would 
steer away from the lift.  New ones aren't that much more, and when you 
are talking about standing under 2 tons, why take a chance?

Also, why are they selling it?  Maybe they can't get parts for it or 
something is wrong with it. 

Save your money, and buy a new one when you can afford it.  (Just my 
opinion.)

Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 




Jim Stone <jandkstone99 at msn.com> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
04/15/2012 12:13

To
<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
cc

Subject
[Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again






Does anyone here have any experience the American Equipment Equipment 
lifts?
I have done some searching on the company and the products, and have found
many complaints about the company's business practices, but little 
information
about the products.  I also checked the Shop-Talk archives and didn't come 
up
with much.

I have a chance to buy one of their lifts used, which would avoid most of 
the
complaints about the business.  But, I'd still have to deal with them on 
any
maintenance or repairs, which is a good reason to stay away from a used 
one.
(Can you tell I am already talking myself out of this?)  Plus, you have to
question the product quality of a company with poor customer service. (Two
strikes?)  Still, I figure it would be worth polling the group to see if
anyone knew anything about the product itself.

Thanks.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com

From phoenix722 at comcast.net  Sun Apr 15 11:57:16 2012
From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 10:57:16 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again
References: <OF3A59DE0B.07F14378-ON852579E1.005EE030-852579E1.005F0AE1@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <6D9E9A81956A4BCC8FB684340D1B41D0@Mike>

I agree wholeheartedly.  I know too many stories of people working under 
cars supported only by something like a bumper jack.  A used lift might be 
just fine, but why take a chance.  Life is not returnable. 

From mbarre at juno.com  Sun Apr 15 13:39:35 2012
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:39:35 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again
Message-ID: <20120415.153935.5419.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com>

I generally agree with most of what I hear on the list, but will contribute
with a somewhat counter opinion.If you would consider purchasing a used lift,
you should be able to check the soundness / safety features.IF not, consider
some assistance in setting it up. IF all you know is, I  push this button and
it goes up and I pull this and it comes down, then you should probably buy a
highquality product from the manufacturer and if they offer installation, pay
for it! I bought a used lift.The seller said he simply never got around to
setting it up.It was still on the shipping cradle and he had the paperwork
from when he had purchased it several years prior.It had been kept inside and
it looked like all the parts were there. With my 4 post rig, I don't get under
it unless it is squarely resting on the safety stops and no one should ever be
in harms way when a lift is going up or coming down. There may well be some
lifts out there that don't use steel of adequate strength, but I doubt buying
it new or used would make a difference. If the seller seems shifty or is vague
on why he wants to sell it....Has it assembled but doesn't want to demo
it...Claims it needs a minor part but doesn't seem interested in fixing
it...Then I would steer clear unless the price was low enough and I was sure I
could obtain any necessary parts and knew the cost.
Matt

---------- Original Message ----------
From: eric at megageek.com
T
Jim,

Unless you know the seller of the lift and/or the way it was used, I would
steer away from the lift.  New ones aren't that much more, and when you
are talking about standing under 2 tons, why take a chance?e at juno.com

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Sun Apr 15 15:19:38 2012
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 17:19:38 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again
In-Reply-To: <COL115-W2113ABF236A73450FA7E6ECC390@phx.gbl>
References: <COL115-W2113ABF236A73450FA7E6ECC390@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0A2D25DAE4D74EF9B3602BCCB7290A9B@EricJRussellPC>

Browse around the forums at www.garagejournal.com It is likely you will be 
able to find info about experiences with any particular lift.

Warning: Garage Journal can become addicting...

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Stone"


> Does anyone here have any experience the American Equipment Equipment 
> lifts?

From dreinsch at swbell.net  Sun Apr 15 15:41:52 2012
From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Repairing plastic (full sized) cars
In-Reply-To: <20120415.153935.5419.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1334526112.60008.YahooMailClassic@web184519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I'm working on a project to help out my son-in-law.  His "bumper" has torn off
the front of his PT Cruiser.  I've taken it off and I'm planning to buy some
fiberglass repair tape and epoxy and rebuild the bolt holes that have torn. 
But I'd like to glue it back on when I put it back.  There are several plastic
shapers and supports behind the bumper but nothing is connected except by a
few clips.  I'd like to run a bead of glue everywhere anything touches
anything else so the entire assembly is a bit stronger when it goes back on. 
 
This repair will NOT be taken back apart.  It will stay until the car is
totaled from the front.
 
So, any suggestions for glue.  (And I've already thought of a bunch of tubes
of Testor's plastic glue with a needle in the tip. )  Liquid nails, etc??
 
Thanks in advance.
Dwade


 

From bspidell at comcast.net  Sun Apr 15 16:19:52 2012
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 15:19:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Repairing plastic (full sized) cars
In-Reply-To: <1334526112.60008.YahooMailClassic@web184519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1334526112.60008.YahooMailClassic@web184519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4F8B4988.6090800@comcast.net>

I'd use one of the panel bonding adhesives, like:

http://www.nortonautomotive.com/speedgrip-auto.aspx

Bob


On 4/15/2012 2:41 PM, Dwade Reinsch wrote:
> I'm working on a project to help out my son-in-law.  His "bumper" has torn off
> the front of his PT Cruiser.  I've taken it off and I'm planning to buy some
> fiberglass repair tape and epoxy and rebuild the bolt holes that have torn.
> But I'd like to glue it back on when I put it back.  There are several plastic
> shapers and supports behind the bumper but nothing is connected except by a
> few clips.  I'd like to run a bead of glue everywhere anything touches
> anything else so the entire assembly is a bit stronger when it goes back on.
>
> This repair will NOT be taken back apart.  It will stay until the car is
> totaled from the front.
>
> So, any suggestions for glue.  (And I've already thought of a bunch of tubes
> of Testor's plastic glue with a needle in the tip. )  Liquid nails, etc??
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Dwade
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell at comcast.net
>
>


-- 
*******************************************************************
Bob Spidell           San Jose, CA            bspidell at comcast.net

*******************************************************************

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Sun Apr 15 17:20:00 2012
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:20:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Repairing plastic (full sized) cars
In-Reply-To: <1334526112.60008.YahooMailClassic@web184519.mail.ne1.yahoo .com>
References: <20120415.153935.5419.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com>
	<1334526112.60008.YahooMailClassic@web184519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20120415191612.04d5ff48@cox.net>

At 05:41 PM 4/15/2012, Dwade Reinsch wrote:

 >I'm working on a project to help out my son-in-law.  His "bumper" 
has torn off
 >the front of his PT Cruiser.......

 >But I'd like to glue it back on when I put it back.....

 >This repair will NOT be taken back apart.  It will stay until the car is
 >totaled from the front.

I'm not that familuar with the PT Cruiser, but do you have to pull the front
bumper to get to the condenser, radiator, even water pump?

I'd hate to glue it on, then find out I need to take it off 
again.  Also, don't know
how strapped he is for cash, but I've bought front and rear bumper covers for
several different cars off vendors on ebay.  Usually like $80 - $100 and about
$60 - 80 to ship.  Have you all looked into that?

John


>
>So, any suggestions for glue.  (And I've already thought of a bunch of tubes
>of Testor's plastic glue with a needle in the tip. )  Liquid nails, etc??
>
>Thanks in advance.
>Dwade
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948 at cox.net

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Sun Apr 15 19:48:09 2012
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 18:48:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Repairing plastic (full sized) cars
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120415191612.04d5ff48@cox.net>
References: <20120415.153935.5419.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com>
	<1334526112.60008.YahooMailClassic@web184519.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20120415191612.04d5ff48@cox.net>
Message-ID: <4F8B7A59.4090300@earthlink.net>

I second John's thought of looking for a replacement.  If you are in a 
big city, there may be a company that does just bumper covers at a very 
reasonable cost.  This is where the yellow pages are good.  Look under 
the auto section for dismantles, recyclers, or something to do with 
bumpers.  You could also ask a local body shop.

When my wife's 2008 VW Jetta got rear ended, I questioned the 
refurbished replacement bumper cover cost, but the shop said they did it 
because it was cheaper than refurbishing the damaged one.  It has a 
lifetime warranty with my insurance company (USAA), and the person that 
rear ended my wife at the stop sign was also USAA, so very easy and no 
expense to us, so I didn't push back.

Brian

On 4/15/2012 4:20 PM, John T. Blair wrote:
> At 05:41 PM 4/15/2012, Dwade Reinsch wrote:
>
> >I'm working on a project to help out my son-in-law.  His "bumper" has 
> torn off
> >the front of his PT Cruiser.......
>
> >But I'd like to glue it back on when I put it back.....
>
> >This repair will NOT be taken back apart.  It will stay until the car is
> >totaled from the front.
>
> I'm not that familuar with the PT Cruiser, but do you have to pull the 
> front
> bumper to get to the condenser, radiator, even water pump?
>
> I'd hate to glue it on, then find out I need to take it off again.  
> Also, don't know
> how strapped he is for cash, but I've bought front and rear bumper 
> covers for
> several different cars off vendors on ebay.  Usually like $80 - $100 
> and about
> $60 - 80 to ship.  Have you all looked into that?
>
> John
>
>
>>
>> So, any suggestions for glue.  (And I've already thought of a bunch 
>> of tubes
>> of Testor's plastic glue with a needle in the tip. )  Liquid nails, 
>> etc??
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>> Dwade
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948 at cox.net
>
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
> Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>
> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>      In God We Trust
>      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
>                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net

From jandkstone99 at msn.com  Sun Apr 15 20:48:01 2012
From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:48:01 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again
In-Reply-To: <0A2D25DAE4D74EF9B3602BCCB7290A9B@EricJRussellPC>
References: <COL115-W2113ABF236A73450FA7E6ECC390@phx.gbl>,
	<0A2D25DAE4D74EF9B3602BCCB7290A9B@EricJRussellPC>
Message-ID: <COL115-W605C05699D4FAF9C4DA129CC3E0@phx.gbl>

Thanks Guys.  I did a little more surfing and found at least one strike three.
In particular, this thread from Garage Journal is pretty instructive:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80530. The author of the
thread is confident in the lift's safety, but I'd be worried about the flaws
he didn't spot during the assembly.  I don't have the concerns some of you
have about buying used, as long as I can see it up and working, so I will keep
looking.  More likely though, I will just bite the bullet and buy a new one.
Or, I have a big birthday in a few months and my wife has been hinting about
what to give me.   :)

As always, thanks for the advice.  And Eric: thanks for reminding me about
Garage Journal.  I had looked at it once before, but forgotten about it.  I
will definitely be back there again.

Jim

> From: ejrussell at mebtel.net
> To: jandkstone99 at msn.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Car Lifts, yet again
> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 17:19:38 -0400
>
> Browse around the forums at www.garagejournal.com It is likely you will be
> able to find info about experiences with any particular lift.
>
> Warning: Garage Journal can become addicting...
>
> Eric Russell
> Mebane, NC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Stone"
>
>
> > Does anyone here have any experience the American Equipment Equipment
> > lifts?

From robolane at sbcglobal.net  Fri Apr 20 07:03:16 2012
From: robolane at sbcglobal.net (Robert Lane)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:03:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <179625754.7886557.1334926996911.JavaMail.app@ela4-app0132.prod>

LinkedIn
------------



I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Robert

Robert Lane
--
Wichita, Kansas Area

Confirm that you know Robert Lane:
https://www.linkedin.com/e/-hruccy-h1992f1n-1p/isd/6502551224/w3BZxfMb/?hs=false&tok=3-1kUD8aVfvlc1

--
You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe:
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(c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA.

From jniolon at att.net  Fri Apr 20 09:42:33 2012
From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 10:42:33 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
Message-ID: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>

Ibve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a 80 gallon tank... using a 5 hp
motor.  Itbs turning about 800 rpm

the rating is 3.9 to 9.6 ACFM @ 175psig   with a 2-3 hp motor...

Ibm wondering if it will handle a small (bench top) or small upright sand
blast cabinet without laboring it to death

Harbor Freight rates their 40# upright model at  9.5 cfm at 90 psi..

A NESCO about the same size says 12 cfm at 80 psi...

An ATLAS says 15 cfm at 100 psi

sounds like blast cabinets are rated like lawn mower engine horsepower ratings
!!!!!

any ideas if I have enough compressor ??

thanks
John

From bspidell at comcast.net  Fri Apr 20 10:37:03 2012
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:37:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
Message-ID: <1950378708.1178187.1334939823041.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Probably not. My dad has a large IR 2-stage; probably a 'real' 7HP or greater on I believe (at least) a 60-gal tank (maybe 80). It struggles to keep up with his blast cabinet--the compressor is off for the first 5min or so of blasting, then has to run almost continuously thereafter. 

>From what I know of fluid dynamics--not much--I've always wondered what a large tank offers. Yes, the tank will put out more air before it reaches min pressure and the compressor fires, but then the compressor has to run longer to replace the volume of air lost. 

Seems to me you need the most powerful compressor you can get, regardless of tank size, so the compressor can replenish the tank quickly then get a rest cycle. I think the 'HP' and 'gallons' numbers aren't particularly relevant; what you need to know is what volume of air at what pressure the compressor can put out (maybe that's the second set of numbers you mentioned; it's not clear to me). The tank just 'buffers' the air flow. 

Maybe a guru can enlighten us. 

Bob 


-------------------------------- 
Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA 

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Niolon" <jniolon at att.net> 
To: "shop-talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:42:33 AM 
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question 

Ibve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a 80 gallon tank... using a 5 hp 
motor. Itbs turning about 800 rpm 

the rating is 3.9 to 9.6 ACFM @ 175psig with a 2-3 hp motor... 

Ibm wondering if it will handle a small (bench top) or small upright sand 
blast cabinet without laboring it to death 

Harbor Freight rates their 40# upright model at 9.5 cfm at 90 psi.. 

A NESCO about the same size says 12 cfm at 80 psi... 

An ATLAS says 15 cfm at 100 psi 

sounds like blast cabinets are rated like lawn mower engine horsepower ratings 
!!!!! 

any ideas if I have enough compressor ?? 

thanks 
John 

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Fri Apr 20 10:37:24 2012
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 12:37:24 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
Message-ID: <20120420123724.i1p7xqf4l83ogcok@webmail2.centurytel.net>

Do you know what the SCFM rating is at ~100 psi? That is more likely 
where you'll want to set the pressure for sandblasting. 

I suspect you've got an adequate air supply - especially for small 
items in a small cabinet. More important is a supply of dry air. 
Blasting does not like wet air. A run of metal pipe (copper or steel) 
will encourage the air to cool down and the water to condense out. Plan 
the air line leading to the cabinet such that it will not come off the 
bottom of a run to keep water out. 

See the air piping instructions at 
http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

Quoting John Niolon <jniolon at att.net>:
> Ibve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a 80 gallon tank... using a 5 hp
> motor.  Itbs turning about 800 rpm
>
> the rating is 3.9 to 9.6 ACFM @ 175psig   with a 2-3 hp motor... 
>
> Ibm wondering if it will handle a small (bench top) or small upright sand
> blast cabinet without laboring it to death

>
> any ideas if I have enough compressor ??
>
> thanks
> John

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Apr 20 13:05:26 2012
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 12:05:26 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <1950378708.1178187.1334939823041.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
	<1950378708.1178187.1334939823041.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <000301cd1f28$8c280bc0$a4782340$@rr.com>

> Maybe a guru can enlighten us.

I am certainly no guru; but my opinion is that as long as the compressor can
keep up with the load, you don't need a large tank or a larger compressor.
It won't hurt the compressor to run continuously, in fact it is probably
worse (in terms of overall wear, power consumption etc) to keep starting and
stopping it.

The large tank is primarily an advantage in two ways: it lets you work
longer with tools that take more air than the compressor can produce, and it
allows for longer on/off cycles.  In other words, it is actually an
advantage to have the compressor off for longer, followed by being on for
longer.  (Among other things, every time the compressor stops, a certain
amount of compressed air is vented to the atmosphere, so it doesn't have to
start under full load next time.)

Compressor "hp" ratings are indeed like lawnmower "hp", except maybe worse.
CFM ratings seem to be a little more consistent to me, but you have to be
very careful about what kind of CFM they are talking about.  Air tools (like
blast cabinets) seem to typically be rated in ACFM at their inlet; while
compressors are generally rated in ACFM or SCFM (by which they really mean
ACFM) at their inlet.  The problem is that the ACFM at the outlet of a
compressor (where the air tool is attached) is many times lower than the
ACFM at the inlet!

> Ibve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a 80 gallon tank... using a
> 5 hp motor.

This probably falls into the fake hp department.  According to Quincy, their
310 compressor is not suitable for more than 3 hp.

> Itbs turning about 800 rpm

According to Quincy's data sheet, that should be about 8 ACFM @ 175 psi;
about 11 ACFM free air.  For the sake of argument, let's assume 10 ACFM @ 90
psi.  ACFM at the outlet is roughly the ACFM at the inlet times the ratio of
absolute pressures.  90 psi is roughly 6 atmospheres "gauge" or 7
atmospheres absolute, so the pressure and CFM ratio is roughly 1:7.  So the
actual output is roughly 10/7 or 1.4 cfm.

My small, bench top blast cabinet draws about 4 ACFM @ 90 psi.

So no, I don't think you have enough compressor for continuous operation of
the blast cabinet, unless your nozzle is a lot smaller than mine is (which
is certainly possible).

A cubic foot is about 7.5 US liquid gallons, so your 80 gallon tank holds
about 10.6 cubic feet.  If it is at 175 psi and you regulate the output down
to 90 psi, that will expand to roughly 19cf @ 90 psi.  If the gun is drawing
4 cfm and the compressor supplying 1.4 cfm, then you'll get about 19/2.6 or
7 minutes of blast cabinet operation before you'll have to stop and wait for
the compressor to catch up.

Depending on what you want to do, 7 minutes may be enough.  I rarely spend
that long on a single part; and the compressor could catch up while you are
preparing the next part for blasting (removing all the loose scale, dirt,
grease, etc).

PS Feel free to "beat up" on my numbers.  I've used only rough
approximations to a lot of things, including using 15 psi for atmospheric
pressure (it's closer to 14.7) and ignoring the effects of temperature
changes and humidity.  But I think the result is good enough to answer your
question.

-- Randall 

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Fri Apr 20 16:16:42 2012
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:16:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
References: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20120420181240.04c049d8@cox.net>

At 11:42 AM 4/20/2012, John Niolon wrote:

 >Ibve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a 80 gallon tank... using a 5 hp
 >motor.  Itbs turning about 800 rpm the rating is 3.9 to 9.6 ACFM @ 
175psig
 >with a 2-3 hp motor...

 >Ibm wondering if it will handle a small (bench top) or small upright sand
 >blast cabinet without laboring it to death

John,

For starters compressors are a lot like computer memory, disk size, and money;
you never have enough.

That said, I run a blast cabinet and a pressure blaster (not at the same time)
with my craftsman 30 gal, 5 hp 110psi compressor.  I can blow more air than my
compressor can make, so every 5 to 15 minuites I have to take a break and let
the compressor catch up.

But one thing no one has mentioned, is the size of the nozzle.  For a 
hobbiest,
use the smallest (dia.) you can get.  Then as it wears, and opens, 
you will use
more and more air.  You blasting will get slower and slower.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction

From doug at dougbraun.com  Fri Apr 20 16:37:58 2012
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:37:58 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
References: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9URdvgdmWpcL4_WfDKYWd8+SD4RGhZE22J6tWef3cZmRA@mail.gmail.com>

A permanent blast cabinet setup is so handy that it is worth putting up
with a somewhat undersized compressor.  You will have to stop and wait
occasionally, but that will take less time than:

1: earning the money to buy a bigger compressor
2: Actually buying it.
3: Getting it delivered and hooked up.

I have a 169.CFM, 6.5HP compressor, and it has no trouble at all running my
cabinet, with
a TP Tools medium-size nozzle.

Doug

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:42 AM, John Niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> Ib ve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a 80 gallon tank... using a 5
> hp
> motor.  Itb s turning about 800 rpm
>
> the rating is 3.9 to 9.6 ACFM @ 175psig   with a 2-3 hp motor...
>
> Ib m wondering if it will handle a small (bench top) or small upright sand
> blast cabinet without laboring it to death
>
> Harbor Freight rates their 40# upright model at  9.5 cfm at 90 psi..
>
> A NESCO about the same size says 12 cfm at 80 psi...
>
> An ATLAS says 15 cfm at 100 psi
>
> sounds like blast cabinets are rated like lawn mower engine horsepower
> ratings
> !!!!!
>
> any ideas if I have enough compressor ??

From rhare34 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 20 16:48:26 2012
From: rhare34 at yahoo.com (Bob Hare)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:48:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20120420181240.04c049d8@cox.net>
References: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20120420181240.04c049d8@cox.net>
Message-ID: <1334962106.61764.YahooMailNeo@web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

You have more than enough pressure & more importantly, volume to run a small
blast cabinet.  I've run a 6.5 HP / 60 gallon rated at 9.4 SCFM for years on a
small blast cabinet.  I finally stepped up & added a second 60 gallon air
receiver, and piped my entire shop with 3/4 galvanized pipe.  Now my
compressor runs alot less.  So I'd say that the increased volume really
stopped my compressor from running all the time.  Oh yea, John Blair has my
old bench top blast cabinet, and I'm glad to see he is still using it!


Bob
Hare (eBay id: rhare34)
Virginia Beach, Va.
1934 Ford Streetrod Pickup
2005
Ford Five Hundred Limited




If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you
are reading this in 
English, thank a Veteran.......
________________________________
From: John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net>
To:
shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question

At 11:42 AM
4/20/2012, John Niolon wrote:

>Ibve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a
80 gallon tank... using a 5 hp
>motor.  Itbs turning about 800 rpm the rating
is 3.9 to 9.6 ACFM @ 175psig
>with a 2-3 hp motor...

>Ibm wondering if it
will handle a small (bench top) or small upright sand
>blast cabinet without
laboring it to death

John,

For starters compressors are a lot like computer
memory, disk size, and money;
you never have enough.

That said, I run a blast
cabinet and a pressure blaster (not at the same time)
with my craftsman 30
gal, 5 hp 110psi compressor.  I can blow more air than my
compressor can make,
so every 5 to 15 minuites I have to take a break and let
the compressor catch
up.

But one thing no one has mentioned, is the size of the nozzle.  For a
hobbiest,
use the smallest (dia.) you can get.  Then as it wears, and opens,
you will use
more and more air.  You blasting will get slower and slower.
John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ    email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va       
          Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65
Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
    75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71
Saab Sonett III
                      65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:   
www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this     
      - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
    e pluribus Unum, "from many,
one."
    In God We Trust
    Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking, 
and  acting  for
                  oneself; freedom  from  control  or 
restriction
_______________________________________________
Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested
annual donation  $12.96
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From rhare34 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 20 16:51:37 2012
From: rhare34 at yahoo.com (Bob Hare)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <CAOtbU9URdvgdmWpcL4_WfDKYWd8+SD4RGhZE22J6tWef3cZmRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
	<CAOtbU9URdvgdmWpcL4_WfDKYWd8+SD4RGhZE22J6tWef3cZmRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1334962297.88207.YahooMailNeo@web161306.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

BTW, I'm running a Tip Tools medium nozzle on a home built blast cabinet. 
www.tptools.com


Bob Hare (eBay id: rhare34)
Virginia Beach, Va.
1934 Ford
Streetrod Pickup
2005 Ford Five Hundred Limited




If you can read this,
thank a teacher.... If you are reading this in 
English, thank a
Veteran.......


________________________________
From: Doug Braun
<doug at dougbraun.com>
To: John Niolon <jniolon at att.net> 
Cc: shop-talk
<shop-talk at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 6:37 PM
Subject: Re:
[Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question

A permanent blast cabinet
setup is so handy that it is worth putting up
with a somewhat undersized
compressor.  You will have to stop and wait
occasionally, but that will take
less time than:

1: earning the money to buy a bigger compressor
2: Actually
buying it.
3: Getting it delivered and hooked up.

I have a 169.CFM, 6.5HP
compressor, and it has no trouble at all running my
cabinet, with
a TP Tools
medium-size nozzle.

Doug

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:42 AM, John Niolon
<jniolon at att.net> wrote:

> Ib ve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a 80
gallon tank... using a 5
> hp
> motor.  Itb s turning about 800 rpm
>
> the
rating is 3.9 to 9.6 ACFM @ 175psig  with a 2-3 hp motor...
>
> Ib m wondering
if it will handle a small (bench top) or small upright sand
> blast cabinet
without laboring it to death
>
> Harbor Freight rates their 40# upright model
at  9.5 cfm at 90 psi..
>
> A NESCO about the same size says 12 cfm at 80
psi...
>
> An ATLAS says 15 cfm at 100 psi
>
> sounds like blast cabinets are
rated like lawn mower engine horsepower
> ratings
> !!!!!
>
> any ideas if I
have enough compressor ??
_______________________________________________
Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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annual donation  $12.96
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http://www.team.net/forums
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From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sun Apr 22 08:08:15 2012
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:08:15 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
References: <A969A9DAEF1B4DE39BF6A6CEE8FBF500@OwnerHP>
Message-ID: <00ba01cd2091$5cfa32a0$16ee97e0$@ameritech.net>

John,

Blasting quickly takes a huge amount of air - as someone else said, it's
like computer RAM - you could always use more.

I have that exact cabinet - certainly one of the nicest things Harbor
Freight has ever offered.  My compressor is a 2-stage, "real" 2-HP motor (a
little over 12 amps at 220V single-phase) and puts out about 7 SCFM.
Handles my old-style paint guns just fine - the ones that take 7 SCFM - I
can paint all day without any problem.

But for blasting, I use the smallest nozzle of the several that come with
the cabinet, and I can only blast for a few minutes at decent pressure and
then it gets to the less-effective pressure range. If I just keep blasting
the compressor will be able to keep it a little above 60 PSI,.  It works,
especially on very light rust or thin paint, but that's just not enough to
blast most things off very quickly.

Soon I hope to get a new pump for my 5-HP, 80-gallon upright compressor, and
I anticipate that will be just about enough for average blasting.  Even with
that though, I'll probably have to do the toughest jobs in spurts, while the
tank is at or near max pressure, and then wait for it to build back up
again.

Karl


-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Niolon
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 10:43
To: shop-talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question

Ibve got a Quincy 310 compressor sitting on a 80 gallon tank... using a 5
hp motor.  Itbs turning about 800 rpm

the rating is 3.9 to 9.6 ACFM @ 175psig   with a 2-3 hp motor...

Ibm wondering if it will handle a small (bench top) or small upright sand
blast cabinet without laboring it to death

Harbor Freight rates their 40# upright model at  9.5 cfm at 90 psi..

A NESCO about the same size says 12 cfm at 80 psi...

An ATLAS says 15 cfm at 100 psi

sounds like blast cabinets are rated like lawn mower engine horsepower
ratings !!!!!

any ideas if I have enough compressor ??

thanks
John
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From parkanzky at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 09:36:30 2012
From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:36:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tim Mullen
Message-ID: <2FD52D41-38F4-480F-86DD-93AD942C1CB2@gmail.com>

All,

This message was relayed on a British car forum where Tim and I have both been
active:

Hello everyone,

This is Tim Mullen's wife.

Tim had a massive episode of what we don't really know, but put him in ICU
for a few days with 100% ventilator.

Either a major stroke or ?????

Anyway, we need to get his brain firing on all cylinders.

I know he loves his cars and you guys.

If you post some comments (especially things that you might need help with
your cars) I want to read them to him and get his mind jump started.

As I know more I'll let you know.

He considers you all his best virtual friends. And some we have met at
various car shows

Jo Mullen

Tim has made a big contribution here over the years, so let's all hope for a
quick, full recovery.

Jo, if you see this please allow us to help in any way we can.

Thanks,

Paul Parkanzky
paul at parkanzky.com

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 10:15:31 2012
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:15:31 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <1950378708.1178187.1334939823041.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1950378708.1178187.1334939823041.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5C07266F-21EC-42D0-BD7F-18BEFCAB4963@gmail.com>

On Apr 20, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:

>
>
> From what I know of fluid dynamics--not much--I've always wondered what a
large tank offers. Yes, the tank will put out more air before it reaches min
pressure and the compressor fires, but then the compressor has to run longer
to replace the volume of air lost.

From bspidell at comcast.net  Sun Apr 22 12:34:18 2012
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:34:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <5C07266F-21EC-42D0-BD7F-18BEFCAB4963@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <647260280.1242399.1335119658031.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Also good to run an extended line--25 ft or more--from the compressor to the water trap. That way the air cools and water condenses before it hits the trap. 

Bob 


-------------------------------- 
Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Scheidt" <dmscheidt at gmail.com> 
To: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell at comcast.net> 
Cc: "John Niolon" <jniolon at att.net>, "shop-talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 9:15:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question 



On Apr 20, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote: 

> 
> 
> From what I know of fluid dynamics--not much--I've always wondered what a large tank offers. Yes, the tank will put out more air before it reaches min pressure and the compressor fires, but then the compressor has to run longer to replace the volume of air lost. 

One thing a big tank can give you is cooler drier air. Air straight out of the compressor is hot and wet. As it cools, the water condenses. A tank big enough to ensure the air being drawn off is room temp means the driers have to work less hard. I've worked with some industrial set ups that had oodles of compressor capacity to meet their peak load, but used large tanks to buffer the temperature and moisture. 

From jniolon at att.net  Sun Apr 22 17:44:20 2012
From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:44:20 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
References: <647260280.1242399.1335119658031.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <44A838DEF21F43AC85A01CA73E64EDB0@john5043a2d406>

thanks guys for all the info...  I guess my quest begins to find/build a blast
cabinet...  the shop is plumbed per tip tools diagram using 1/2" galvanized
pipe (yes, I know black is better but galvanized was free.)

The main run is about 25' long with 4 drops that come off the top of the
pipe... down to a fitting in a tee and a ball valve/drain at the end of each
drop...  water filter at head end about 5' from compressor and another at the
end.  Compressor makes about a cup of water a week with occasional use with
air tools and a da sander... I've never gotten the first drop of water out of
the system when opening the drains... but I did blow a lizzard across the yard
once.

can anyone recommend tip sizes ... if I build, I'll just buy the kit from TIP
I guess... but all info and recommendations are appreciated..

thanks
John

From jniolon at att.net  Sun Apr 22 17:50:19 2012
From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:50:19 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] gantry crane - a frame
Message-ID: <88368E013D5746758E99C9A67F5A743A@john5043a2d406>

I've got a gantry crane/ a-frame  that's is taking up real estate and needs to
find a new home.  Haven't used it in a long time and thinking about
Craigslisting it...   8' high with a 11.5' span and mobile on 9" swivel cast
iron wheels...   It's home built using a 6" H-beam, 2.5" pipe legs with
bracing to hold it all together.  Haven't got a clue on rating, but it's seen
a 2000-2500 lbs with no strain.

My problem is what is it worth... I see the commercial units for a grand or
better.  H.F. has one with two vertical legs and  rated at 1 ton for about
650.

I can send pics if anyone is interested in seeing it.....   Any ideas what it
might be worth ???  what to ask for it on C.L. ???

tia
JOhn





I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ?

From jniolon at att.net  Sun Apr 22 18:31:47 2012
From: jniolon at att.net (John Niolon)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 19:31:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] gantry crane - a frame
References: <88368E013D5746758E99C9A67F5A743A@john5043a2d406>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20120422200454.03b5bd08@pop.nycap.rr.com>
Message-ID: <685958D4B1D74F099F2AA182AAAF3ED3@john5043a2d406>

no take-apart... it's all welded together... need a trailer to move it... it 
won't fit in a pickup...
I'm in Hueytown Al.   about 12 miles SW of Birmingham...   I'll send you 
some pics... wish we could post here !

 john

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Skip Albright" <salbrigh at nycap.rr.com>
To: "John Niolon" <jniolon at att.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] gantry crane - a frame


>
>
>
> yeah good new ones are thousand-ish and the HF ones go on sale for 
> $400-600
>
> yours is prolly better, but people are funny about "homemade"  things.
>
> does it come a part to transport?
>
> Where are you?
>
> love to see pics.
>
> thanks
>
> Skip
>
>
>
> At 07:50 PM 4/22/2012, you wrote:
>>I've got a gantry crane/ a-frame  that's is taking up real estate and 
>>needs to
>>find a new home.  Haven't used it in a long time and thinking about
>>Craigslisting it...   8' high with a 11.5' span and mobile on 9" swivel 
>>cast
>>iron wheels...   It's home built using a 6" H-beam, 2.5" pipe legs with
>>bracing to hold it all together.  Haven't got a clue on rating, but it's 
>>seen
>>a 2000-2500 lbs with no strain.
>>
>>My problem is what is it worth... I see the commercial units for a grand 
>>or
>>better.  H.F. has one with two vertical legs and  rated at 1 ton for about
>>650.
>>
>>I can send pics if anyone is interested in seeing it.....   Any ideas what 
>>it
>>might be worth ???  what to ask for it on C.L. ???
>>
>>tia
>>JOhn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ?
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/salbrigh at nycap.rr.com
>
> Nothing is as it appears
> Skip Albright
> Glenmont NY
> salbrigh at nycap.rr.com
> http://www.volvoskip.com/

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sun Apr 22 19:37:24 2012
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 21:37:24 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] compressor/sandblast guru question
In-Reply-To: <44A838DEF21F43AC85A01CA73E64EDB0@john5043a2d406>
References: <647260280.1242399.1335119658031.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<44A838DEF21F43AC85A01CA73E64EDB0@john5043a2d406>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9UKKdP+RanM0AX-cSV3L6SLYzDV=BSwrH05KE4rjwVMzw@mail.gmail.com>

Here are some photos of the cabinet I built from their kit:

http://www.dougbraun.com/model_a_gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1244

Doug

On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 7:44 PM, John Niolon <jniolon at att.net> wrote:

>
> can anyone recommend tip sizes ... if I build, I'll just buy the kit from
> TIP
> I guess... but all info and recommendations are appreciated..

From shannahquilts at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 16:26:26 2012
From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:26:26 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure Washer
Message-ID: <CAAy7z=2V921zj4fa+imvHZPBvaGv6ZuGEGQt3ox77KKYYZGd-g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I would like to do something nice for my uncle, who is
getting on in years, and has a TON of pressure washing
to do around his house.

I'm not looking for the cheap solution: does anyone have
any suggestion for a really GOOD power washer?  If it
has the ability to use solutions, in addition to just water,
that would be great.  If I can shop online and have it
shipped, more the better.

What pressure washer would you get if it was going to
be yours or a gift to a loved one?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Shannah

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Mon Apr 23 17:09:45 2012
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:09:45 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure Washer
In-Reply-To: <CAAy7z=2V921zj4fa+imvHZPBvaGv6ZuGEGQt3ox77KKYYZGd-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAy7z=2V921zj4fa+imvHZPBvaGv6ZuGEGQt3ox77KKYYZGd-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01cd21a6$2cf9f980$86edec80$@rr.com>

> If it
> has the ability to use solutions, in addition to just water,
> that would be great.

I don't have a suggestion, just something to watch for.  The pressure washer
I got had the "solution" input and even came with a gallon of soap.  What I
didn't realize before buying is that it will not pick up the solution when
in "high pressure" mode.  It will only suck the soap when the outlet is
opened up.

-- Randall 

From battmain at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 23 17:37:17 2012
From: battmain at yahoo.com (battmain)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 23:37:17 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure Washer
In-Reply-To: <CAAy7z=2V921zj4fa+imvHZPBvaGv6ZuGEGQt3ox77KKYYZGd-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAy7z=2V921zj4fa+imvHZPBvaGv6ZuGEGQt3ox77KKYYZGd-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1335224218.7100.shop-talk@autox.team.net>

Suggest at least 2500psi or better. Anything less has just annoyed me when I used it. Even with that amount of power, the rotating turbo nozzle is needed for the moldy sidewalks by me otherwise the job takes twice as long. Pricewise, you can get the units for 399 and up. 

B

Sent from my BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Shannah Miller <shannahquilts at gmail.com>
Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:26:26 
To: ShopTalk<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure Washer

Hi,

I would like to do something nice for my uncle, who is
getting on in years, and has a TON of pressure washing
to do around his house.

I'm not looking for the cheap solution: does anyone have
any suggestion for a really GOOD power washer?  If it
has the ability to use solutions, in addition to just water,
that would be great.  If I can shop online and have it
shipped, more the better.

What pressure washer would you get if it was going to
be yours or a gift to a loved one?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Shannah
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/battmain at yahoo.com

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Mon Apr 23 22:25:15 2012
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:25:15 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure Washer
In-Reply-To: <000f01cd21a6$2cf9f980$86edec80$@rr.com>
References: <CAAy7z=2V921zj4fa+imvHZPBvaGv6ZuGEGQt3ox77KKYYZGd-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<000f01cd21a6$2cf9f980$86edec80$@rr.com>
Message-ID: <4F962B2B.6040004@earthlink.net>

Randall - That is how mine is too.  I thought that is how they all 
worked.  You spray on the desired solution at low pressure and let is 
soak in then switch to high to actually clean and rinse.  It lets you 
wash then rinse a section at a time without having to make changes to 
the pressure washer.  I can see this feature being really handy if you 
are doing a house while on a ladder.

Brian

On 4/23/2012 4:09 PM, Randall wrote:
>> If it
>> has the ability to use solutions, in addition to just water,
>> that would be great.
> I don't have a suggestion, just something to watch for.  The pressure washer
> I got had the "solution" input and even came with a gallon of soap.  What I
> didn't realize before buying is that it will not pick up the solution when
> in "high pressure" mode.  It will only suck the soap when the outlet is
> opened up.
>
> -- Randall
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net

From shannahquilts at gmail.com  Tue Apr 24 10:25:44 2012
From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:25:44 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure Washer
In-Reply-To: <4F962B2B.6040004@earthlink.net>
References: <CAAy7z=2V921zj4fa+imvHZPBvaGv6ZuGEGQt3ox77KKYYZGd-g@mail.gmail.com>
	<000f01cd21a6$2cf9f980$86edec80$@rr.com>
	<4F962B2B.6040004@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAAy7z=2Sa9etJywRnENqGupYSgWDVCpGdYa6C+2OuR=m-g8PFw@mail.gmail.com>

I found this one, that seems to fit the bill, in terms of having
enough pressure, and the ability to use detergent in addition
to the clean water spray.

Simpson Megashot MSH3125-S 3,100 PSI Honda GC190 Premium Gas Powered
Heavy Duty Pressure Washer

Anyone have any better suggestions?  If not, this is the one
I'm going to get for my uncle.  Thank you so much for your
input!

Shannah

On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Brian Kemp <bk13 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Randall - That is how mine is too.  I thought that is how they all worked.
>  You spray on the desired solution at low pressure and let is soak in then
> switch to high to actually clean and rinse.  It lets you wash then rinse a
> section at a time without having to make changes to the pressure washer.  I
> can see this feature being really handy if you are doing a house while on a
> ladder.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On 4/23/2012 4:09 PM, Randall wrote:
>>>
>>> If it
>>> has the ability to use solutions, in addition to just water,
>>> that would be great.
>>
>> I don't have a suggestion, just something to watch for.  The pressure
>> washer
>> I got had the "solution" input and even came with a gallon of soap.  What
>> I
>> didn't realize before buying is that it will not pick up the solution when
>> in "high pressure" mode.  It will only suck the soap when the outlet is
>> opened up.
>>
>> -- Randall
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shannahquilts at gmail.com

From eric at megageek.com  Tue Apr 24 12:05:03 2012
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:05:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw:  Tim Mullen
Message-ID: <OF1EEB4ACB.0D3A63C9-ON852579EA.0062BF51-852579EA.006415AD@mail.megageek.com>

Paul, 
Can you see that Tim gets this? (Or at least email me an address to get it 
to Tim's wife?)  I'm also cc'ing the email address that I have for Tim and 
the shop talk list to make sure I get it to him.

Tim, 

This is Eric (or "Inch") from Stop Talk list.  I just wanted to reach out 
and let you know that there are lots of us here thinking about you.  I 
just thought back over the years about things you personally  helped me. 
Some quick ones that come to mind are...
-Advice on the difference between industrial and automotive air couplers
-Where to find quality jumper cable connectors
-How to do home front end alinements, and the tools needed
-And the merits of static balancing vs. high speed balancing of tires.

But mostly, I remember you taking the time to give me a detail list of 
what I needed to do to store my truck for it's year long storage when I 
got deployed to Iraq.  Advice that I had to use a second time to go to 
Afghanistan afterwards.

You ended the email with "Good luck over there, and keep you head down." 
(I still have the email)

Well, I kept my head down and may it home twice.  But now it's time for 
you to "get your head up" and get back online.  Us shade tree mechanics 
out here need your expertise!

So, get out of bed trooper and get back in that shop!!!  That's an order!! 
(Don't forget, I'm a Captain in the US Army, so that really *IS* and 
order!)

God Bless, and a speedy recovery from me (and all of the lugs on the Shop 
talk list, I'm sure.) You are in our prayers.

Eric P
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 

PS- yesterday I DIDN'T keep my head down and I broke my nose putting some 
wood on a shelf.  Time to build yet another garage for MORE STUFF!!!!  8>)



----- Forwarded by Eric Petrevich/Megageek on 04/24/2012 13:58 -----

Paul Parkanzky <parkanzky at gmail.com> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
04/22/2012 11:38

To
"shop-talk at autox.team.net" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
cc

Subject
[Shop-talk] Tim Mullen






All,

This message was relayed on a British car forum where Tim and I have both 
been
active:

Hello everyone,

This is Tim Mullen's wife.

Tim had a massive episode of what we don't really know, but put him in ICU
for a few days with 100% ventilator.

Either a major stroke or ?????

Anyway, we need to get his brain firing on all cylinders.

I know he loves his cars and you guys.

If you post some comments (especially things that you might need help with
your cars) I want to read them to him and get his mind jump started.

As I know more I'll let you know.

He considers you all his best virtual friends. And some we have met at
various car shows

Jo Mullen

Tim has made a big contribution here over the years, so let's all hope for 
a
quick, full recovery.

Jo, if you see this please allow us to help in any way we can.

Thanks,

Paul Parkanzky
paul at parkanzky.com
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue Apr 24 15:30:42 2012
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:30:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw:  Tim Mullen
In-Reply-To: <OF1EEB4ACB.0D3A63C9-ON852579EA.0062BF51-852579EA.006415AD@
	mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF1EEB4ACB.0D3A63C9-ON852579EA.0062BF51-852579EA.006415AD@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20120424172517.04daf3a0@cox.net>

Tim,

Like Eric (Inch), I too (John T. Blair) have saved many of your emails over the
years.  We miss your sage advice.

We don't really know what is wrong but we are keeping you in our prayers.

A stay in the hospital ain't no fun for anyone.  So get better 
quickly and get the
h$%@ out of there.  Then you can get back to you shop and computer and
giving us all moral support as we fumble through our odd jobs in the shop.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va                  Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for
                   oneself; freedom  from  control  or  restriction

From parkanzky at gmail.com  Tue Apr 24 15:53:31 2012
From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:53:31 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw:  Tim Mullen
In-Reply-To: <OF1EEB4ACB.0D3A63C9-ON852579EA.0062BF51-852579EA.006415AD@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF1EEB4ACB.0D3A63C9-ON852579EA.0062BF51-852579EA.006415AD@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <CAOErii=Kqyhd6Md7XgvorOhERw8r4E6n+0sW80_mFyVToifrAA@mail.gmail.com>

Eric,

I'm afraid that I don't have any more a direct line to Tim than you do.

I can, however, pass along some great news from the forums:

---From the Forums (Not My Writing)---

My wife Debbie & I went by the hospital after work, and saw Tim. He was
quite alert, considering the pain meds he is on.

He is bruised up, has a torn muscle in his leg, and a damaged lumbar
vertebra. He can't walk on his own yet, but will be fitted for a brace
soon, which should help. They do not know yet what caused the episode that
landed him in the ER, but tests show it wasn't a seizure, nor a stroke, nor
a heart attack.

We dropped off a Get Well Soon card, from his Lotus friends from around the
world. We also gave him a Lotus 25 model kit. I told him we were going to
need the model assembled, painted, and decal'd by, say, early next week. He
said he'd look into it.

We talked cars, and car people, and he was quite lucid throughout. He is a
bit embarrassed by the fuss online, as his wife Jo has described it to him,
but he is genuinely appreciative of the thoughts. He does not have access
to a computer at this time.
/SNIP/
--------------------------------------

I removed some forum specific stuff at the end, but the upshot is that Tim
seems to be on the mend and with his faculties in tact.  It's wonderful
news and I think it's just a matter of time before we see Tim on here again.

-Paul

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 2:05 PM, <eric at megageek.com> wrote:

> Paul,
> Can you see that Tim gets this? (Or at least email me an address to get it
> to Tim's wife?)  I'm also cc'ing the email address that I have for Tim and
> the shop talk list to make sure I get it to him.
>
> Tim,
>
> This is Eric (or "Inch") from Stop Talk list.  I just wanted to reach out
> and let you know that there are lots of us here thinking about you.  I
> just thought back over the years about things you personally  helped me.
> Some quick ones that come to mind are...
> -Advice on the difference between industrial and automotive air couplers
> -Where to find quality jumper cable connectors
> -How to do home front end alinements, and the tools needed
> -And the merits of static balancing vs. high speed balancing of tires.
>
> But mostly, I remember you taking the time to give me a detail list of
> what I needed to do to store my truck for it's year long storage when I
> got deployed to Iraq.  Advice that I had to use a second time to go to
> Afghanistan afterwards.
>
> You ended the email with "Good luck over there, and keep you head down."
> (I still have the email)
>
> Well, I kept my head down and may it home twice.  But now it's time for
> you to "get your head up" and get back online.  Us shade tree mechanics
> out here need your expertise!
>
> So, get out of bed trooper and get back in that shop!!!  That's an order!!
> (Don't forget, I'm a Captain in the US Army, so that really *IS* and
> order!)
>
> God Bless, and a speedy recovery from me (and all of the lugs on the Shop
> talk list, I'm sure.) You are in our prayers.
>
> Eric P
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph
> Waldo Emerson
>
> PS- yesterday I DIDN'T keep my head down and I broke my nose putting some
> wood on a shelf.  Time to build yet another garage for MORE STUFF!!!!  8>)

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Wed Apr 25 17:29:09 2012
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:29:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
Message-ID: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>

Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
Any suggestions?

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA

From jibjib at att.net  Wed Apr 25 18:08:38 2012
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:08:38 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
References: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <19F92D8156B3419D9D8503218E8A708F@EntCentPC>

C'mon Steve, man up.  You are from Washington State.  Grrrrr!  We have a
reputation to uphold.  <Huge Grin>

I know what you mean.  I fill 4, 5 gallon gasoline containers every fall for
the winter generator season.  They are heavy. How about just filling them up
half way?  If they seal tightly, there will not be a condensation issue.

Jack
Covington, Washington State

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Hammatt Mount
Vernon WA USA
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:29 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can

Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
Any suggestions?

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
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From bk13 at earthlink.net  Wed Apr 25 18:14:51 2012
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:14:51 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
References: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <4F98937B.3050406@earthlink.net>

Steve - I just did a quick search at Amazon and see what you mean. They 
have the red poly in smaller sizes, but not yellow. You could always try 
to spray a red one with yellow plastic paint or wrap it in yellow duct tape.

Should you go metal, Justrite 7110200 and 7120200 are 1 and 2 gallon 
options.

Brian

On 4/25/2012 4:29 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote:
> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any)<5 gal
> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net

From racertod at racertodd.com  Wed Apr 25 18:19:01 2012
From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:19:01 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20120425171515.00bd4508@mail.avvanta.com>

Steve wrote:
>Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
>yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
>nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
>I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
>Any suggestions?

         I couldn't find any using Google.  Don't know why.  Oliver Stone 
would, of course, claim it's a conspiracy...
         Diesel and "gas" cans are made from the same polyethylene plastic, 
only the color differs.  I'd just buy a regular red gas can and spray paint 
it yellow to eliminate any confusion over what type of fuel it contains.


Todd
Seattle,WA
'86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 274,000 miles
'01 Golf TDI, silver.   (new work car)       338,000 miles
'87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car)   654,000 miles <- Gone to a new 
home :(
http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff

From mbarre at juno.com  Wed Apr 25 18:31:08 2012
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 00:31:08 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
Message-ID: <20120425.203108.659.0@webmail08.vgs.untd.com>

IIRC my grand dad had some 2.5 or 3 gallon jugs he used for diesel for the
tractor specifically for weight.I think they were institutional vegatable oil
jugs... Matt


Steve wrote:
>Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
>yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
>nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
>I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
>Any suggestions?

From brabel at comcast.net  Wed Apr 25 18:32:49 2012
From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:32:49 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
References: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <B8A30167-E8E9-434E-9612-EC7AA080230D@comcast.net>

I've found the same non-existent jugs. I'd like to keep a one- or two-gallon
jug for when I change fuel filters on my boat. I searched the Web high and
low.

- Bill Rabel
  Anacortes


On Apr 25, 2012, at 4:29 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote:

> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA

From pat at hornesystemstx.com  Wed Apr 25 18:34:04 2012
From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:34:04 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <4F98937B.3050406@earthlink.net>
References: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
	<4F98937B.3050406@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4F9897FC.60205@hornesystemstx.com>

I haven't seen the original post yet, so I am replying to this reply.

I seem to remember seeing small yellow plastic fuel containers at 
Walmart. Since I don't use diesel, I haven't looked that closely.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Brian Kemp, On 4/25/2012 7:14 PM:
> Steve - I just did a quick search at Amazon and see what you mean. 
> They have the red poly in smaller sizes, but not yellow. You could 
> always try to spray a red one with yellow plastic paint or wrap it in 
> yellow duct tape.
>
> Should you go metal, Justrite 7110200 and 7120200 are 1 and 2 gallon 
> options.
>
> Brian
>
> On 4/25/2012 4:29 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote:
>> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any)<5 gal
>> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
>> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
>> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Steve Hammatt
>> Mount Vernon WA USA
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
>
>

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 06:16:40 2012
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 07:16:40 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
References: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <B3BAC5D7-FE1D-404E-B621-96EB257A7BA3@gmail.com>

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:29 PM, "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA"
<gsteve at hammatt.com> wrote:

> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
> Any suggestions?

Rotopax make one. Spendy.

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 08:58:22 2012
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:58:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <B3BAC5D7-FE1D-404E-B621-96EB257A7BA3@gmail.com>
References: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
	<B3BAC5D7-FE1D-404E-B621-96EB257A7BA3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F99628E.6020406@gmail.com>

I have a really small (one or two gallon) one. Either came from Wal-Mart 
or Discount Auto.

On 4/26/2012 8:16 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
> On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:29 PM, "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA"
> <gsteve at hammatt.com>  wrote:
>
>> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any)<5 gal
>> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
>> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
>> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
>> Any suggestions?
> Rotopax make one. Spendy.

From tputland at charter.net  Thu Apr 26 10:12:17 2012
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:12:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
Message-ID: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>

It is spendy but available. Found this with google search. I am sure 
there are other options.

 
http://www.zorotools.com/g/00070082/k-G1764813?srccode=cii_23393768&cpncode=33-34222069-2&utm_source=channel_intelligence&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=AmazonProductAds

or

http://tinyurl.com/co6n7q4

tim





On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA 
wrote:

> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Thu Apr 26 10:23:39 2012
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:23:39 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
References: <F9ECB0739698475B99DB2ADA4AE7F019@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <3D28EFFF92A245808C3398A20F3D64A4@DesktopPC>

I know I can spray paint red to yellow and/or simply
fill up to 50% volume to reduce the weight.  However,
I'd simply like to have an original 2 or 2.5 gal container
that doesn't take up the space of a 5 gal container nor
does it look like a spray-bomb paint job.
I would not think that that's too much to expect, but
apparently the manufacturers do.  I just got off the
phone with two manufacturers of gas cans (Blitz and
No-Spill) and they simply stated that there wasn't the
demand for smaller cans (for diesel).

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
-----Original Message----- 
From: Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:29 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can

Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
Any suggestions?

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve at hammatt.com




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4958 - Release Date: 04/25/12 

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Thu Apr 26 11:29:41 2012
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:29:41 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>
References: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>
Message-ID: <1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC>

Tim
I had found the steel containers, but why not plastic?
Think about all the seasoned citizens with their RV's
and car trailers being hauled behind Turbo Cummins
or other (un-named) diesels that find it difficult to
lift (and hold) to empty a 50 lb. plus can plus fuel.
Also, steel vs. plastic for long term storage without
corrosion.

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
-----Original Message----- 
From: Tim
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 9:12 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can

It is spendy but available. Found this with google search. I am sure
there are other options.


http://www.zorotools.com/g/00070082/k-G1764813?srccode=cii_23393768&cpncode=33-34222069-2&utm_source=channel_intelligence&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=AmazonProductAds

or

http://tinyurl.com/co6n7q4

tim





On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA
wrote:

> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
> Any suggestions?
>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve at hammatt.com




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4960 - Release Date: 04/26/12 

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu Apr 26 18:26:22 2012
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:26:22 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC>
References: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>
	<1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com>

On Apr 26, 2012, at 12:29 PM, "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA"
<gsteve at hammatt.com> wrote:

> Tim
> I had found the steel containers, but why not plastic?
> Think about all the seasoned citizens with their RV's
> and car trailers being hauled behind Turbo Cummins
> or other (un-named) diesels that find it difficult to
> lift (and hold) to empty a 50 lb. plus can plus fuel.

That's why they've got huge fuel tanks. And failing that, that's what there's
tow trucks for.


> Also, steel vs. plastic for long term storage without
> corrosion.

Who stores two gallons of diesel?  There are no diesel lawn mowers, leaf
blowers or chain saws. If you've got a diesel it's in something youre going to
use a lot of fuel for.



>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> -----Original Message----- From: Tim
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 9:12 AM
> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
>
> It is spendy but available. Found this with google search. I am sure
> there are other options.
>
>
>
http://www.zorotools.com/g/00070082/k-G1764813?srccode=cii_23393768&cpncode=3
3-34222069-2&utm_source=channel_intelligence&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign
=AmazonProductAds
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/co6n7q4
>
> tim
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA
> wrote:
>
>> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
>> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
>> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
>> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Steve Hammatt
>> Mount Vernon WA USA
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve at hammatt.com
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4960 - Release Date: 04/26/12
_______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Thu Apr 26 20:02:58 2012
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:02:58 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com>
References: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>
	<1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC>
	<15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1CB64DD455CD4981A0669F57D0A7FC0A@DesktopPC>

Sorry, I don't know if this reply was sent with a bit of tongue in cheek
or not, but driving across Nebraska at night is something I'd like
to feel a bit more comfortable with when I have an extra 25 miles
of diesel fuel (it's not pretty when you run out with a diesel).
Also, I'm not happy having my rig and 10,000 lb. car trailer
towed by AAA.
Also, when you live in the country and not in the city like some
people, we do have diesel lawn mowers.
My needs center around wanting to keep an emergency supply
of fuel in the back of my open pickup (inside the lockable tool box)
as my backup supply.
So, if your comments were meant to be humorous, then so be
it.  If not, then you may consider that what works for you may
not work for others.
Thanks to all the others for your worthwhile comments
and suggestions.  They re appreciated.
Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
-----Original Message----- 
From: David Scheidt
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 5:26 PM
To: Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA
Cc: Tim ; Shop Talk
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can

On Apr 26, 2012, at 12:29 PM, "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" 
<gsteve at hammatt.com> wrote:
> Tim
> I had found the steel containers, but why not plastic?
> Think about all the seasoned citizens with their RV's
> and car trailers being hauled behind Turbo Cummins
> or other (un-named) diesels that find it difficult to
> lift (and hold) to empty a 50 lb. plus can plus fuel.

That's why they've got huge fuel tanks. And failing that, that's what 
there's tow trucks for.

> Also, steel vs. plastic for long term storage without
> corrosion.

Who stores two gallons of diesel?  There are no diesel lawn mowers, leaf 
blowers or chain saws. If you've got a diesel it's in something youre going 
to use a lot of fuel for.

>
> Steve Hammatt
> Mount Vernon WA USA
> -----Original Message----- From: Tim
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 9:12 AM
> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
>
> It is spendy but available. Found this with google search. I am sure
> there are other options.
>
> http://www.zorotools.com/g/00070082/k-G1764813?srccode=cii_23393768&cpncode=33-34222069-2&utm_source=channel_intelligence&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=AmazonProductAds
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/co6n7q4
> tim
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA
> wrote:
>
>> Is there any logic behind there being few (if any) <5 gal
>> yellow diesel plastic fuel cans?  I have difficulty in lifting
>> nearly 50 lb. of fuel over the side of my RAM 2500 and
>> I would really like to stay away from the metal cans.
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Steve Hammatt
>> Mount Vernon WA USA 

From marka at maracing.com  Fri Apr 27 07:30:42 2012
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:30:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com>
References: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>
	<1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC>
	<15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1204270928250.14409@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012, David Scheidt wrote:
> Who stores two gallons of diesel?  There are no diesel lawn mowers, leaf 
> blowers or chain saws. If you've got a diesel it's in something youre 
> going to use a lot of fuel for.

This one.

I get that the OP wants this, but I'm totally fine with my 5 gal diesel 
cans for my tractor and motorhome.  The motorhome would only go about 16 
miles on 2 gallons of diesel anyway!  :-)

Mark

(of course, the reason I have a diesel can in the motorhome is primarily 
so that I can more easily prime the fuel pump by filling the filter with 
fuel when I change it.  Which seems to happen entirely too much in some 
random parking lot on the side of the road.)

From tputland at charter.net  Fri Apr 27 07:44:46 2012
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:44:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
Message-ID: <2b6bd151.e84d3.136f40bf59f.Webtop.46@charter.net>

I think the "want" of a smaller fuel can is the ease of picking it up. I 
am sure if he can find smaller cans, he will not haul only one can. 
Haulling two gallons of any fuel would pretty much defeat the purpose of 
hauling fuel in the first place.
tim

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Fri Apr 27 07:57:16 2012
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:57:16 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <1CB64DD455CD4981A0669F57D0A7FC0A@DesktopPC>
References: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>
	<1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC>
	<15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com>
	<1CB64DD455CD4981A0669F57D0A7FC0A@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <4F9AA5BC.3070801@gmail.com>

You have a diesel lawn mower?

I want one!

On 4/26/2012 10:02 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote:
> Sorry, I don't know if this reply was sent with a bit of tongue in cheek
> or not, but driving across Nebraska at night is something I'd like
> to feel a bit more comfortable with when I have an extra 25 miles
> of diesel fuel (it's not pretty when you run out with a diesel).
> Also, I'm not happy having my rig and 10,000 lb. car trailer
> towed by AAA.
> Also, when you live in the country and not in the city like some
> people, we do have diesel lawn mowers.
> My needs center around wanting to keep an emergency supply
> of fuel in the back of my open pickup (inside the lockable tool box)
> as my backup supply.
> So, if your comments were meant to be humorous, then so be
> it.  If not, then you may consider that what works for you may
> not work for others.
> Thanks to all the others for your worthwhile comments
> and suggestions.  They re appreciated.

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Fri Apr 27 08:00:26 2012
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:00:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <2b6bd151.e84d3.136f40bf59f.Webtop.46@charter.net>
References: <2b6bd151.e84d3.136f40bf59f.Webtop.46@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4F9AA67A.6000903@gmail.com>

And there are some cars that use diesel. I have the small yellow can I 
have for just the reason the o.p. mentioned--it's hard to lift fifty 
pounds of fuel and get the flexible spout to stay in a car's filler 
while trying to hold fifty pounds waist-high just *so*.  Our cars will 
go about 100 miles on two gallons of fuel, and I don't want to use a AAA 
call for the times I think I can stretch the tank to 715 miles...and am 
wrong.

(Not like I've ever done that. That's just being prepared. Yeah.)

On 4/27/2012 9:44 AM, Tim wrote:
> I think the "want" of a smaller fuel can is the ease of picking it up. 
> I am sure if he can find smaller cans, he will not haul only one can. 
> Haulling two gallons of any fuel would pretty much defeat the purpose 
> of hauling fuel in the first place.
> tim

From TR3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Apr 27 08:51:36 2012
From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:51:36 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <4F9AA67A.6000903@gmail.com>
References: <2b6bd151.e84d3.136f40bf59f.Webtop.46@charter.net>
	<4F9AA67A.6000903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04ad01cd2485$3f6de770$0601a8c0@randall>

> it's hard to lift fifty 
> pounds of fuel 

Just a thought, have you considered using a small transfer pump instead?
It's not particularly quick, but one of those little 'clicker' Facet fuel
pumps works pretty good as a 12v transfer pump.  And it will do things like
pump from a permanently mounted tank that would be difficult otherwise.

BTW, 5 gallons of diesel fuel weighs less than 36 pounds.  Add 4 pounds for
a plastic can, and it's still only about 40 lbs.  It only seems like 50 :)

-- Randall  

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Fri Apr 27 10:41:30 2012
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:41:30 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <4F9AA5BC.3070801@gmail.com>
References: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net><1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC><15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com><1CB64DD455CD4981A0669F57D0A7FC0A@DesktopPC>
	<4F9AA5BC.3070801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2EB20ADC53C0411782ABE0EC54357FA0@DesktopPC>

There are currently around 3 dozen used diesel John Deere
Lawn Mowers listed for sale on eBay..........grin
My neighbor's JD mower is a diesel, my JD is only a two cylinder
lawn tractor (bummer!)

Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
-----Original Message----- 
From: Scott
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 6:57 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can

You have a diesel lawn mower?

I want one!

On 4/26/2012 10:02 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote:
> Sorry, I don't know if this reply was sent with a bit of tongue in cheek
> or not, but driving across Nebraska at night is something I'd like
> to feel a bit more comfortable with when I have an extra 25 miles
> of diesel fuel (it's not pretty when you run out with a diesel).
> Also, I'm not happy having my rig and 10,000 lb. car trailer
> towed by AAA.
> Also, when you live in the country and not in the city like some
> people, we do have diesel lawn mowers.
> My needs center around wanting to keep an emergency supply
> of fuel in the back of my open pickup (inside the lockable tool box)
> as my backup supply.
> So, if your comments were meant to be humorous, then so be
> it.  If not, then you may consider that what works for you may
> not work for others.
> Thanks to all the others for your worthwhile comments
> and suggestions.  They re appreciated.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve at hammatt.com




-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4961 - Release Date: 04/26/12 

From fishplate at gmail.com  Fri Apr 27 11:01:17 2012
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:01:17 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <4F9AA5BC.3070801@gmail.com>
References: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>
	<1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC>
	<15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com>
	<1CB64DD455CD4981A0669F57D0A7FC0A@DesktopPC>
	<4F9AA5BC.3070801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CNLSS4Tywuaj0t64gQVcx0BVL-J1PrzNgHwhMdSE9iXLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Scott <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
> You have a diesel lawn mower?
>
> I want one!

Kubota GR2120.  I don't have one, but I've had several generators with
the Kubota 3-cyl. Diesel engine.  All of them were bulletproof.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sat Apr 28 13:09:27 2012
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:09:27 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2 or 2.5 gal Diesel Fuel Can
In-Reply-To: <1CB64DD455CD4981A0669F57D0A7FC0A@DesktopPC>
References: <28f2a9f8.dafb7.136ef6caa45.Webtop.47@charter.net>
	<1ED914120250485CA19DAB687748CAAC@DesktopPC>
	<15BEF172-0DD3-4BB0-AC7B-DD7C52AA5183@gmail.com>
	<1CB64DD455CD4981A0669F57D0A7FC0A@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <CA+k5suqG++QtGU4rUVYESjSBHq+bxrR5iohCKN2tHF0SPmcvjw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA
<gsteve at hammatt.com> wrote:
> Sorry, I don't know if this reply was sent with a bit of tongue in cheek
> or not, but driving across Nebraska at night is something I'd like
> to feel a bit more comfortable with when I have an extra 25 miles
> of diesel fuel (it's not pretty when you run out with a diesel).
> Also, I'm not happy having my rig and 10,000 lb. car trailer
> towed by AAA.
> Also, when you live in the country and not in the city like some
> people, we do have diesel lawn mowers.

You asked why there was no demand for small diesel cans.  I explained.
 It's economics. There simply aren't enough potential customers for
such a thing.  But everyone with a gas powered tool is a potential
customer for a small gas can.

> My needs center around wanting to keep an emergency supply
> of fuel in the back of my open pickup (inside the lockable tool box)
> as my backup supply.
> So, if your comments were meant to be humorous, then so be
> it. B If not, then you may consider that what works for you may
> not work for others.

You might consider my first post to thread was a pointer to someone
who makes 2.5 gallon plastic diesel containers.




--
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From mbarre at juno.com  Sat Apr 28 13:41:25 2012
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:41:25 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2.5 gallon fuel containers
Message-ID: <20120428.154125.22997.0@webmail04.vgs.untd.com>

This specifically says not for fuel, but it is HDPE.  It is only $7.60!  I
would just write "DIESEL" on it with a fat
sharpie.http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=75051 Here is another
non-colored container made of HDPE but it elaborates that it isn't suitable
for fuel due to some spill proof rating...It looks more sturdy than the
cheaper jug but it is $17.50  Looks like a typical pit fuel
container.http://www.shopthedude.com/prd.cl/SCR6221W

From phoenix722 at comcast.net  Sat Apr 28 14:05:48 2012
From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:05:48 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] oil
Message-ID: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>

My ancient small air compressor has a plug to check the oil.  I haven't used
it a lot lately, and decided to check the oil level, which is fine,
but.........seems to me I used to have a small container of "compressor oil"
for refilling, but of course, can't find it.  Is this a special oil, or would
any "motor oil" of the proper weight do?

Mike

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Sat Apr 28 14:08:51 2012
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 16:08:51 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] 2.5 gallon fuel containers
Message-ID: <20120428160851.nmcchdo6mbmsw4ck@webmail2.centurytel.net>

I use a 2.5 gallon red plastic gasoline jug and wrote 'diesel' on it 
with permanent marker. (I also have a 1 gallon red jug with fuel/oil 
mix labelled 'chain saw'.)

I doubt that painting a red plastic container yellow will last. How 
about wrapping the handle with yellow tape (in addition to writing on 
it with permanent marker)?

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

From mark at bradakis.com  Sat Apr 28 14:23:21 2012
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:23:21 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] oil
In-Reply-To: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>
References: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>
Message-ID: <4F9C51B9.7090206@bradakis.com>

I am fairly sure that it is just 30 weight non-detergent motor oil.

I better check the level in my compressor this afternoon.

On another note, while working on one problem I accidently caused
another, as anyone who  tried to get to the forums, the mailman admin
page, the donate link or whatever during the last 12 hours or so would 
know.

The server is now responding, though the problems I was working on are 
still
unresolved.  I'd rather be at The Mitty!


mjb.

From jibjib at att.net  Sat Apr 28 17:06:45 2012
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 16:06:45 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] oil
In-Reply-To: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>
References: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>
Message-ID: <834D663590EA4EFDAE6560F8CC687C2D@EntCentPC>

On my compressor it was simply motor oil.  I inquired about using Mobil 1
and they were OK with it.  I broke it in on Dino juice, the switched over to
synthetic, so I'm 99% sure your manufacturer would be OK with motor oil.
Call the manufacturer if you are concerned.



-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 1:06 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] oil

My ancient small air compressor has a plug to check the oil.  I haven't used
it a lot lately, and decided to check the oil level, which is fine,
but.........seems to me I used to have a small container of "compressor oil"
for refilling, but of course, can't find it.  Is this a special oil, or
would
any "motor oil" of the proper weight do?

Mike
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sat Apr 28 17:48:27 2012
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:48:27 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] oil
In-Reply-To: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>
References: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9Uwb_Ub-rBVQxYAHW-xzM0uCFEuEAKjsa1eocG4p7A06Q@mail.gmail.com>

The manual for my full-size compressor says to use "SAE-30 API CG/CD Heavy
Duty" oil.
The manual for a little compressor I have says the same, but also
"non-detergent".

I have always used that type of oil from Pep Boys, etc., never special
compressor oil.

Doug

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Mike Sinclair <phoenix722 at comcast.net>wrote:

> My ancient small air compressor has a plug to check the oil.  I haven't
> used
> it a lot lately, and decided to check the oil level, which is fine,
> but.........seems to me I used to have a small container of "compressor
> oil"
> for refilling, but of course, can't find it.  Is this a special oil, or
> would
> any "motor oil" of the proper weight do?

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sat Apr 28 18:04:35 2012
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:04:35 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: [Spits] Oil Pump Priming-Maybe a dumb question
In-Reply-To: <CAOtbU9VMKFdYWXzXsMBGXXqm1A6r5YUkU-ccyUKuKavLdJD1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <043d01cd258e$1b247410$516d5c30$@comcast.net>
	<CAOtbU9VMKFdYWXzXsMBGXXqm1A6r5YUkU-ccyUKuKavLdJD1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9WYG3TjuP2Uqyo9j8YZ3RjqX6ix95J=mpHsxtKqOUY+MA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com>
Date: Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Spits] Oil Pump Priming-Maybe a dumb question
To: Daniel Parrott <parrotthead01 at comcast.net>


Several years ago I did this with a drill. I think I used a wooden dowel or
something similar
to connect the drill to the pump.  BTW, you have to run the drill
COUNTERCLOCKWISE!

It wasn't so much a matter of priming the pump  (I think the impellers are
submerged in the sump),
but of ensuring that it actually worked.

Doug


On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Daniel Parrott
<parrotthead01 at comcast.net>wrote:

> I'm getting ready to fire up the engine in my Spit 6 Project car and was
> about to use a drill to prime the oil pump.  I removed the dizzy and found
> the gear, still mated to the cam shaft.  I guess I need to remove the gear
> and lower shaft to get to the upper end of the oil pump.  True?  Is there a
> special Triumph-specific oil pump priming tool to attach to the oil pump?
>
>
>
> Making sure I don't make a dumb mistake. (again)
>
>
>
> Dan Parrott
>
> Savannah, Georgia
>
> 1980 Triumph Spitfire "PJ", AKA "Rat"
>
> 1973/1978 Spit Six "Joseph"
>
> 1957 Chevy Belair "Mayflower"
> _______________________________________________
>
> Spitfires at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $11.47
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/doug at dougbraun.com

From TR3driver at ca.rr.com  Sat Apr 28 19:46:06 2012
From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:46:06 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] oil
In-Reply-To: <CAOtbU9Uwb_Ub-rBVQxYAHW-xzM0uCFEuEAKjsa1eocG4p7A06Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>
	<CAOtbU9Uwb_Ub-rBVQxYAHW-xzM0uCFEuEAKjsa1eocG4p7A06Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <064501cd25a9$d86411f0$0601a8c0@randall>

> The manual for my full-size compressor says to use "SAE-30 
> API CG/CD Heavy
> Duty" oil.
> The manual for a little compressor I have says the same, but also
> "non-detergent".

That's curious.  I was under the impression that API standards CD and CG
required detergents.

Anyway, my full-size compressor says to use "CE or better" but then warns
that "multi-viscosity oils will shorten compressor life".

A little poking around on IR's web site reveals that they are so proud of
their synthetic compressor oil that they double the warranty on the
compressor if you use it.

http://tinyurl.com/7b6lfjn

-- Randall  

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sun Apr 29 15:02:13 2012
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:02:13 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] oil
In-Reply-To: <064501cd25a9$d86411f0$0601a8c0@randall>
References: <4DD45C3C5E6A40B08779E894A995E858@Mike>
	<CAOtbU9Uwb_Ub-rBVQxYAHW-xzM0uCFEuEAKjsa1eocG4p7A06Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<064501cd25a9$d86411f0$0601a8c0@randall>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9UNY2rnTOvMQA6htTn1gvk2s9Qz+9epX6xykBMHXcbkxg@mail.gmail.com>

I once read some compressor manual that said to avoid multi-viscosity or
detergent oils (one or the other, but I forget which) because they would
cause carbon deposits to build up on the reed valves.  That sounded a bit
odd to me, since there is no combustion happening...

Doug

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Randall <TR3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote:

> > The manual for my full-size compressor says to use "SAE-30
> > API CG/CD Heavy
> > Duty" oil.
> > The manual for a little compressor I have says the same, but also
> > "non-detergent".
>
> That's curious.  I was under the impression that API standards CD and CG
> required detergents.
>
> Anyway, my full-size compressor says to use "CE or better" but then warns
> that "multi-viscosity oils will shorten compressor life".
>
> A little poking around on IR's web site reveals that they are so proud of
> their synthetic compressor oil that they double the warranty on the
> compressor if you use it.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7b6lfjn
>
> -- Randall
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug at dougbraun.com

From bob at texmog.com  Sun Apr 29 17:47:53 2012
From: bob at texmog.com (Bob Nogueira)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:47:53 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: [Spits] Oil Pump Priming-Maybe a dumb question
In-Reply-To: <CAOtbU9WYG3TjuP2Uqyo9j8YZ3RjqX6ix95J=mpHsxtKqOUY+MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <043d01cd258e$1b247410$516d5c30$@comcast.net><CAOtbU9VMKFdYWXzXsMBGXXqm1A6r5YUkU-ccyUKuKavLdJD1eQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOtbU9WYG3TjuP2Uqyo9j8YZ3RjqX6ix95J=mpHsxtKqOUY+MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0981C7BEEFAA4968BE4CC6C0BA4EDD80@dellPC>

Several years ago I attempted to "pre-oil' my newly rebuilt TR 4 engine by
removing the distributor gear and fabricating a rod to drive the oil pump.
Ended up covering myself in oil.   Apparently the oil is pumped up  from the
pump to the drive gear;  if a drive rod to the pump is of a smaller diameter
than the gear drive shaft the oil will shoot straight up into your face.
The solution was to locate an old drive gear and remove the shaft from the
gear and use just the shaft.   Once I figured that out it worked great.


Bob