From shochschild at att.net Sun May 1 07:58:15 2011 From: shochschild at att.net (shochschild at att.net) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 08:58:15 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? In-Reply-To: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> References: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> Message-ID: <4DBD66F7.6020500@att.net> Once again, this list proves it's value. After reviewing the space I have, I am now moving to a scissors lift. Although the garage is nominally 20'x22'x 8' ceiling, which was already going to be very tight, it turns out that because of a step up around the perimeter, the floor space is more like 18'x18', too small. I would not have recognized that this was such a constraint if I hadn't gotten the advice here. Any strong opinions/advice/recommendations on scissors lifts? I am reviewing the archives here and on GarageJournal, but am now back at the beginning of the selection process... Thanks again On 4/30/2011 7:55 AM, shochschild at att.net wrote: > Any opinions on the mid-rise, semi portable DannMar MaxJax as seen > here: http://www.maxjaxusa.com/ ? > > I'm close to pulling the trigger, but figured I would ask the experts > here first... > > $1999, free shipping and one vendor agreed to throw in the motorcycle > adapter. > > Thanks! > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From shochschild at att.net Sun May 1 08:11:38 2011 From: shochschild at att.net (shochschild at att.net) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 09:11:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <4DBC6846.5010106@snet.net> References: <4DBC6846.5010106@snet.net> Message-ID: <4DBD6A1A.1000409@att.net> Here is another vote for the Diversion. I went to my local community college (ACC, in Austin) and got good training, looked at my needs, and I am very pleased with the choice I made. I got the foot pedal, and recommend it. I have yet to hit the duty cycle limitation. A big issue for me was portability/storage, and the Diversion is not much bigger or heavier than my plasma cutter, vs the used Synchrowave I found that looked better on paper, but would have been an essentially permanent install. I knew what I wanted, and so ordered it online for the cost/sales tax savings. Otherwise, your local Miller dealer will likely give you a demo, but for me, that means I would have felt obligated to buy from them and pay the sales tax... I enjoy reading the Miller DIY newsletter and forums - check them out if you haven't already. On 4/30/2011 2:51 PM, John Mitchell wrote: > I've asked the wife for a Tig welder for an anniversary present. > I need recommendations on models in the $1500 range if that's > practical. It will mostly be used for automotive tasks and I > definitely want the ability to weld aluminum. I have a small 240v > plasma cutter, and a small 120v Miller mig which is great for sheet > metal repairs. I'd like a tig for doing projects that require a > prettier weld and possibly for frame repairs where my Mig is very > marginal. I'd appreciate any insights. Thanks John Mitchell > Shelton, CT > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From shochschild at att.net Sun May 1 08:17:42 2011 From: shochschild at att.net (shochschild at att.net) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 09:17:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? In-Reply-To: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> References: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> Message-ID: <4DBD6B86.8080509@att.net> Someone asked about the track in Austin: I was very doubtful when this was first announced. In fact, my comment was "I'll eat a steering wheel if this ever happens." But I am here to admit that the track is definitely going to be built. I have my doubts that anyone will show up to the F1 race, but that is not relevant; if the track is built there will be amateur/club racing on it, and that is going to happen, fer sure. So I am excited about getting my 944 ITS car back on it's wheels... On 4/30/2011 7:55 AM, shochschild at att.net wrote: > Any opinions on the mid-rise, semi portable DannMar MaxJax as seen > here: http://www.maxjaxusa.com/ ? > > I'm close to pulling the trigger, but figured I would ask the experts > here first... > > $1999, free shipping and one vendor agreed to throw in the motorcycle > adapter. > > Thanks! > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From jmitch at snet.net Sun May 1 10:51:50 2011 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 12:51:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <4DBD6A1A.1000409@att.net> References: <4DBC6846.5010106@snet.net> <4DBD6A1A.1000409@att.net> Message-ID: <4DBD8FA6.3030804@snet.net> Thanks, I do like the portability of the inverter tigs. I've seen some used miller's at decent prices, but they weighed close to 300lbs. I'd rather have something I can just roll into a corner in the basement. John On 5/1/2011 10:11 AM, shochschild at att.net wrote: > Here is another vote for the Diversion. I went to my local community > college (ACC, in Austin) and got good training, looked at my needs, > and I am very pleased with the choice I made. I got the foot pedal, > and recommend it. I have yet to hit the duty cycle limitation. A big > issue for me was portability/storage, and the Diversion is not much > bigger or heavier than my plasma cutter, vs the used Synchrowave I > found that looked better on paper, but would have been an essentially > permanent install. > > I knew what I wanted, and so ordered it online for the cost/sales tax > savings. Otherwise, your local Miller dealer will likely give you a > demo, but for me, that means I would have felt obligated to buy from > them and pay the sales tax... > > I enjoy reading the Miller DIY newsletter and forums - check them out > if you haven't already. > > > > On 4/30/2011 2:51 PM, John Mitchell wrote: >> I've asked the wife for a Tig welder for an anniversary present. >> I need recommendations on models in the $1500 range if that's >> practical. It will mostly be used for automotive tasks and I >> definitely want the ability to weld aluminum. I have a small 240v >> plasma cutter, and a small 120v Miller mig which is great for sheet >> metal repairs. I'd like a tig for doing projects that require a >> prettier weld and possibly for frame repairs where my Mig is very >> marginal. I'd appreciate any insights. Thanks John Mitchell >> Shelton, CT >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jmitch at snet.net From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sun May 1 11:21:50 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 13:21:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? In-Reply-To: <4DBD66F7.6020500@att.net> References: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> <4DBD66F7.6020500@att.net> Message-ID: <4707C50288024D6C8860A3F85299912E@EricJRussellPC> Ask yourself what sort of work you'll be wanting to do on your car. If mostly wheels off/brake work then I think a scissor lift will meet your needs. But if you need to get to the underside of the vehicle I think the scissor lift will be frustrating. Do you have room for a four post lift? Even if you don't have the ceiling height to park a second vehicle underneath, you'll find it very useful for lifting a car to working height. A rolling seat could be used if you can't lift the car high enough to walk under (I have 11'8" ceiling in the garage). All four post lifts I've looked at come with or have available a 'jacking bridge' that spans the ramps to allow you place a jack under the car to lift it & remove the wheels. The posts do not need to be bolted down and can even be moved with castor kits (again either included or extra-cost options). The 7,000 - 9,000 lb capacity lifts I looked at do not require anything special as far as the concrete floor. To avoid having a garage door opener hanging down above the lift I used a jack-shaft door opener (mounts to the wall above/to the side of the door's header). I'm not trying to talk you out of a scissor lift - I just see them as having limitations - more a single purpose tool. For example I just finished replacing the steering rack, tie rod ends & castor rod bushings in our Alfa Romeo GTV6. In the olden days (pre-lift) I'd have been lying on my back with the car on ramps/jack stands. Every time I needed a different tool I'd have to slide out from under the car, struggle to get up (this getting old sucks) then get back down and slide under the car again. With the car up on the lift & front wheels removed I was working at a comfortable height and could simply walk over to the tool box for tools as needed. I do not think that job would have been do-able with the car on a scissor lift as I needed full access to the underside back to about 2 feet behind the front axle & the exhaust system had to be removed, too. As for sources for any type of lift, look for a local distributor and make sure to include shipping fees to know the actual total investment. If shipped to a residential address you may have to pay extra. If shipped to a business address it might be less. If you can pick it up yourself from a local distributor you might be able save a lot. I bought my lift from a distributor in Raleigh - about 30 miles away. I also had a choice of another company's products from a distributor in Greensboro (about 30 miles in the other direction). The company I bought from worked with me to get a good price. They had the model lift I wanted at their warehouse in Florida. If I was willing to wait a couple of weeks until they had a truck bringing product from there to Raleigh I would not have to pay additional shipping costs. I then picked up the lift from their Raleigh location and avoided further shipping fees. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > Any strong opinions/advice/recommendations on scissors lifts? I am > reviewing the archives here and on GarageJournal, but am now back at the > beginning of the selection process... [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of lifted 01.jpg] From mikey at b2systems.com Sun May 1 12:03:11 2011 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 11:03:11 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? In-Reply-To: <4DBD66F7.6020500@att.net> References: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> <4DBD66F7.6020500@att.net> Message-ID: <4DBDA05F.40501@b2systems.com> I have the Bend-Pak md6--xp or some combination of those letters :) I LOVE the thing, right now my 34 Singer is on it while I work on the chassis without having to bend over and break my back, its great working on it at eye level. Makes for super quick tire rotations on my GMC too, not as good for oil changes although it still work for that, but I have a 4-post next to it so that is the oil changer. mike On 5/1/2011 6:58 AM, shochschild at att.net wrote: > Once again, this list proves it's value. > > After reviewing the space I have, I am now moving to a scissors lift. > Although the garage is nominally 20'x22'x 8' ceiling, which was > already going to be very tight, it turns out that because of a step up > around the perimeter, the floor space is more like 18'x18', too > small. I would not have recognized that this was such a constraint if > I hadn't gotten the advice here. > > Any strong opinions/advice/recommendations on scissors lifts? I am > reviewing the archives here and on GarageJournal, but am now back at > the beginning of the selection process... > > Thanks again > > On 4/30/2011 7:55 AM, shochschild at att.net wrote: >> Any opinions on the mid-rise, semi portable DannMar MaxJax as seen >> here: http://www.maxjaxusa.com/ ? >> >> I'm close to pulling the trigger, but figured I would ask the experts >> here first... >> >> $1999, free shipping and one vendor agreed to throw in the motorcycle >> adapter. >> >> Thanks! >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mikey at b2systems.com From mikey at b2systems.com Sun May 1 12:04:27 2011 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 11:04:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <4DBD8FA6.3030804@snet.net> References: <4DBC6846.5010106@snet.net> <4DBD6A1A.1000409@att.net> <4DBD8FA6.3030804@snet.net> Message-ID: <4DBDA0AB.6050905@b2systems.com> Well rolling it into the corner is easy once you have the welder, just build a cart with wheels on it :) (sorry, could not resist) mike On 5/1/2011 9:51 AM, John Mitchell wrote: > Thanks, I do like the portability of the inverter tigs. I've seen > some used miller's at decent prices, but they weighed close to > 300lbs. I'd rather have something I can just roll into a corner in > the basement. John > > On 5/1/2011 10:11 AM, shochschild at att.net wrote: >> Here is another vote for the Diversion. I went to my local community >> college (ACC, in Austin) and got good training, looked at my needs, >> and I am very pleased with the choice I made. I got the foot pedal, >> and recommend it. I have yet to hit the duty cycle limitation. A >> big issue for me was portability/storage, and the Diversion is not >> much bigger or heavier than my plasma cutter, vs the used Synchrowave >> I found that looked better on paper, but would have been an >> essentially permanent install. >> >> I knew what I wanted, and so ordered it online for the cost/sales tax >> savings. Otherwise, your local Miller dealer will likely give you a >> demo, but for me, that means I would have felt obligated to buy from >> them and pay the sales tax... >> >> I enjoy reading the Miller DIY newsletter and forums - check them out >> if you haven't already. >> >> >> >> On 4/30/2011 2:51 PM, John Mitchell wrote: >>> I've asked the wife for a Tig welder for an anniversary >>> present. I need recommendations on models in the $1500 range if >>> that's practical. It will mostly be used for automotive tasks and I >>> definitely want the ability to weld aluminum. I have a small 240v >>> plasma cutter, and a small 120v Miller mig which is great for sheet >>> metal repairs. I'd like a tig for doing projects that require a >>> prettier weld and possibly for frame repairs where my Mig is very >>> marginal. I'd appreciate any insights. Thanks John Mitchell >>> Shelton, CT >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jmitch at snet.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mikey at b2systems.com From doug at dougbraun.com Sun May 1 14:23:53 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 16:23:53 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? In-Reply-To: <5FD1782255BE4C1EA4C4986BA0327E2D@EntCent> References: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> <4DBC4E51.3010207@att.net> <5FD1782255BE4C1EA4C4986BA0327E2D@EntCent> Message-ID: At Costco? Did they have one on display? Doug On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: > Now you may only need this for XYZ, but I have seen the Costco four post > lift with casters for moving it. It's a nice piece, you can park under it, > lift up the car with jack stands, etc., for about $2,100 delivered two years > ago. From mikey at b2systems.com Sun May 1 14:38:58 2011 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 13:38:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? In-Reply-To: References: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> <4DBC4E51.3010207@att.net> <5FD1782255BE4C1EA4C4986BA0327E2D@EntCent> Message-ID: <4DBDC4E2.2040907@b2systems.com> Most (I think all) 4-post lifts can have casters, mine does and its a Lifts Unlimited about 10 years old now. mike On 5/1/2011 1:23 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: > At Costco? Did they have one on display? > > Doug > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: >> Now you may only need this for XYZ, but I have seen the Costco four post >> lift with casters for moving it. It's a nice piece, you can park under it, >> lift up the car with jack stands, etc., for about $2,100 delivered two > years >> ago. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mikey at b2systems.com From rkg at teleport.com Sun May 1 15:39:36 2011 From: rkg at teleport.com (Richard George) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 14:39:36 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <4DBDA0AB.6050905@b2systems.com> References: <4DBC6846.5010106@snet.net> <4DBD6A1A.1000409@att.net> <4DBD8FA6.3030804@snet.net> <4DBDA0AB.6050905@b2systems.com> Message-ID: <4DBDD318.8030900@teleport.com> That's true - a cart was the first thing I built :-) rkg (Richard George) On 5/1/2011 11:04 AM, Mike Rambour wrote: > Well rolling it into the corner is easy once you have the welder, > just build a cart with wheels on it :) > > (sorry, could not resist) > mike From bk13 at earthlink.net Sun May 1 17:37:39 2011 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 16:37:39 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? In-Reply-To: References: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> <4DBC4E51.3010207@att.net> <5FD1782255BE4C1EA4C4986BA0327E2D@EntCent> Message-ID: <4DBDEEC3.3030804@earthlink.net> Costco.com - http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11288133 On 5/1/2011 1:23 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: > At Costco? Did they have one on display? > > Doug > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: >> Now you may only need this for XYZ, but I have seen the Costco four post >> lift with casters for moving it. It's a nice piece, you can park under it, >> lift up the car with jack stands, etc., for about $2,100 delivered two > years >> ago. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From jibjib at att.net Sun May 1 20:38:25 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 19:38:25 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? In-Reply-To: <4DBDEEC3.3030804@earthlink.net> References: <4DBC06C3.1080705@att.net> <4DBC4E51.3010207@att.net> <5FD1782255BE4C1EA4C4986BA0327E2D@EntCent> <4DBDEEC3.3030804@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7F8B6BE21BAA48BA8961E0AB06CF75DC@EntCent> That is the one. When you add the ramps and casters, (Call the Mfg for the extras) it goes to around $2,100 delivered. Nice unit. I'd like one myself. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Brian Kemp [mailto:bk13 at earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 4:38 PM To: Douglas Braun Cc: Jack Brooks; shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] DannMar MaxJax ? Costco.com - http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11288133 On 5/1/2011 1:23 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: > At Costco? Did they have one on display? > > Doug > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: >> Now you may only need this for XYZ, but I have seen the Costco four post >> lift with casters for moving it. It's a nice piece, you can park under it, >> lift up the car with jack stands, etc., for about $2,100 delivered two > years >> ago. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From obaa996 at yahoo.com Mon May 2 16:17:28 2011 From: obaa996 at yahoo.com (Obaa) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] setting up compressed air lines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <172056.88564.qm@web161408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I know this has been extensively covered before, and I've already done searches, so I promise this is something new... :) I'm planning on running compressed air lines throughout my garage during the next few weeks. I will be using black pipe because copper is currently too pricey. I've seen the TP Tools pdf on routing lines and drops, so have that covered. My questions are probably so basic that they're assumed knowledge.... I've read that rust is one of the main disadvantages to steel pipe. Is there a paint/coating I can run through the pipes before installation to keep down the rust? I've also had problems before in trimming pipe to the correct length and sealing the joints in the past. I'd like to keep the pipes snug to the walls, so wondering if there was some formula/trick to determining where to cut a pipe so the length ends up correct, and if there is a thread sealant so that the pipe will be properly sealed in case it was cut slightly "short"? From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon May 2 17:04:22 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 16:04:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] setting up compressed air lines In-Reply-To: <172056.88564.qm@web161408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <172056.88564.qm@web161408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <058d01cc091d$4725c160$d5714420$@rr.com> > wondering if there was some formula/trick to determining > where to cut a pipe > so the length ends up correct, For an elbow or tee, I just assume that the centerline of the side pipe will wind up about 1/4" (for 3/4" pipe) beyond the cut. It's not exact, but close enough for my purposes. The exact relationship depends on how far down the pipe you run the die. So pick a reference point, and cut threads to that reference point. Then do a trial assembly, after marking the pipe a known distance from the cut end. Of course there may still be some small variation, because the fittings aren't always tapped to the same depth either. Loctite makes an anaerobic sealant for pipe threads, which seems to work somewhat better than the old 'Teflon' pipe dope (which is really just a lubricant so you can tighten the threads until they deform into each other). Sorry, no help on the rust. I just used brass at the water collection points. -- Randall From ronnie.day at gmail.com Mon May 2 17:50:22 2011 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 18:50:22 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] setting up compressed air lines In-Reply-To: <172056.88564.qm@web161408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <172056.88564.qm@web161408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doesn't TP Tools suggest black pipe anyway? Their system design looks like it minimizes moisture vapor in the piping so if you build with the drains they suggest it shouldn't be a problem. You could use the Garage-Pak system (www.garage-pak.com) that's used/advertised on the car shows on Speed and Spike, but I'll bet it's quite pricy compared to black or galvanized pipe. Can't hurt to check. FWIW, Ron On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Obaa wrote: > I know this has been extensively covered before, and I've already done > searches, > so I promise this is something new... :) > I'm planning on running > compressed air lines throughout my garage during the > next few weeks. I will > be using black pipe because copper is currently too > pricey. I've seen the TP > Tools pdf on routing lines and drops, so have that > covered. My questions are > probably so basic that they're assumed knowledge.... > > I've read that rust is > one of the main disadvantages to steel pipe. Is there a > paint/coating I can > run through the pipes before installation to keep down the > rust? I've also > had problems before in trimming pipe to the correct length and > sealing the > joints in the past. I'd like to keep the pipes > snug to the walls, so > wondering if there was some formula/trick to determining > where to cut a pipe > so the length ends up correct, and if there is a thread > sealant so that the > pipe will be properly sealed in case it was cut slightly > "short"? > _______________________________________________ From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon May 2 19:02:32 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 20:02:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] setting up compressed air lines In-Reply-To: <172056.88564.qm@web161408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <172056.88564.qm@web161408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Obaa wrote: > I know this has been extensively covered before, and I've already done > searches, > so I promise this is something new... :) > I'm planning on running > compressed air lines throughout my garage during the > next few weeks. B I will > be using black pipe because copper is currently too > pricey. B I've seen the TP > Tools pdf on routing lines and drops, so have that > covered. My questions are > probably so basic that they're assumed knowledge.... > > I've read that rust is > one of the main disadvantages to steel pipe. B Is there a > paint/coating I can > run through the pipes before installation to keep down the > rust? You can use brass or copper for the vertical riser from the tank to the overhead pipes. That's the wettest, hottest air. Beyond that, good filters outlets and draining the system regularly. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From Gil.Fuqua at cci-ir.com Tue May 3 07:13:37 2011 From: Gil.Fuqua at cci-ir.com (Gil Fuqua) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:13:37 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] setting up compressed air lines In-Reply-To: References: <172056.88564.qm@web161408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7F60FBB4505509419A67E9116F2BBFFE02E740B9@BNAVEX01.cci-ir.com> One of the recommendations from Tip is to make a complete loop of pipe around your shop. This has two advantages. 1) you get uniform pressure around the whole loop, and 2) it allows you to tip one corner of the loop lower so that all the moisture drains to that corner. The long loop on one side also allows you to make two sides longer (ie - not as critical) and to tilt the loop to fit snugly in the corner of the lower side. I have the black pipe installed in my shop according to the Tip plans and it works great. The moisture in the lines is greatly diminished. The hot air of the compressor condenses against the cooler temperature of the metal pipe. The moisture then flows by gravity along the bottom of the pipe to the drains. Be sure that all of your air outlets come out of the TOP of the pipe to further minimize moisture in the lines. Gil Nashville From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue May 3 13:33:42 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 14:33:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement Message-ID: <105B000E614444E6822089AB13138F13@OwnerPC> I've got a Crapsman cordless drill 18 volt. batteries are dead and won't take a charge I have some 19.2 volt crapsman batteries from another drill can you use the 19.2s in the 18 volt drill without screwing anything up ?? thanks John From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Tue May 3 14:14:09 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:14:09 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: <105B000E614444E6822089AB13138F13@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <20110503201410.P1RJ5.5894.root@cdptpa-web06-z02> I think you could probably use them if they would fit, but I would expect that manufacturers would make the ends a bit different so one voltage system wouldn't interchange with another voltage system. You could always buy another battery on ebay, or take apart your dead one and buy new cells at radioshack or wherever. I have a cordless shaver and cordless trimmer that both are pretty old. I've replaced batteries in each one by taking out the old battery and matching it up at radioshack, then soldering in the new one. I have a new Ridgid 18V drill w/ LiIon batteries. The original batteries are worthless. I've thought about opening them up and rebuilding them, but I'll probably mail them back to Ridgid along with a complaint letter and hope they will send me new ones. > I've got a Crapsman cordless drill 18 volt. > > batteries are dead and won't take a charge > > I have some 19.2 volt crapsman batteries from another drill > > can you use the 19.2s in the 18 volt drill without screwing anything up ?? From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue May 3 14:41:21 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:41:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: <105B000E614444E6822089AB13138F13@OwnerPC> References: <105B000E614444E6822089AB13138F13@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <066001cc09d2$775038b0$65f0aa10$@rr.com> Gee, John, if you dislike their tools so much, why do you keep buying them? FWIW, I agree with you, but I haven't bought a power tool at Sears since I was in high school. The extra 1.2v shouldn't hurt anything, assuming the batteries will physically interchange (really?) and you use the 19.2 volt charger. FWIW, chances are that only 1 or 2 cells are bad out of the 12 in your old battery pack. If you don't want to try changing them yourself, there are companies around that will rebuild the pack for a lot less than the cost of new. -- Randall From doug at dougbraun.com Tue May 3 14:43:11 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:43:11 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: <105B000E614444E6822089AB13138F13@OwnerPC> References: <105B000E614444E6822089AB13138F13@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I did exactly this a couple of years ago. I had to do a very tiny bit of carving with an X-acto knife where the battery plugs into the drill to ensure it would fit smoothly. The drill has worked fine with the more powerful battery. If you like I can check the model numbers of the recommended and new batteries. BTW, the charger was designed to work with various battery voltages, and worked fine. Doug On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:33 PM, john niolon wrote: > I've got a Crapsman cordless drill 18 volt. > batteries are dead and won't take a charge > I have some 19.2 volt crapsman batteries from another drill > can you use the 19.2s in the 18 volt drill without screwing anything up ?? From mistertwo at sbcglobal.net Tue May 3 14:46:51 2011 From: mistertwo at sbcglobal.net (Rand E) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: <20110503201410.P1RJ5.5894.root@cdptpa-web06-z02> References: <20110503201410.P1RJ5.5894.root@cdptpa-web06-z02> Message-ID: <570974.90243.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don't Ridgid tools have a lifetime warranty? Randy ________________________________ From: "bjshov8 at tx.rr.com" To: shop-talk Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 3:14:09 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement I think you could probably use them if they would fit, but I would expect that manufacturers would make the ends a bit different so one voltage system wouldn't interchange with another voltage system. You could always buy another battery on ebay, or take apart your dead one and buy new cells at radioshack or wherever. I have a cordless shaver and cordless trimmer that both are pretty old. I've replaced batteries in each one by taking out the old battery and matching it up at radioshack, then soldering in the new one. I have a new Ridgid 18V drill w/ LiIon batteries. The original batteries are worthless. I've thought about opening them up and rebuilding them, but I'll probably mail them back to Ridgid along with a complaint letter and hope they will send me new ones. > I've got a Crapsman cordless drill 18 volt. > > batteries are dead and won't take a charge > > I have some 19.2 volt crapsman batteries from another drill > > can you use the 19.2s in the 18 volt drill without screwing anything up ?? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net From ronglue at yahoo.com Tue May 3 16:11:56 2011 From: ronglue at yahoo.com (Ron Horwitz) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 15:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman edger motor lost its suck Message-ID: <840591.68912.qm@web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 25cc 2 stroke engine died mid use. Upon inspection, the original fuel hose disintegrated and dropped the pickup into the tank. I replaced the hose, and squeezed the bulb to reprime and the problems started. I can see bubbles in the fuel as I squeeze the bulb, but then there is no suction. I was able to suction fuel the old fashion way, so I got fuel into the tube but even then the bulb couldn't prime the engine. I took the bulb off thinking it might have a crack, but no, it'll hold vacuum on my thumb just fine. When I put it back on the plate that it attaches to ahead of the carb, I get a whistle when I push but no suction when I put my thumb over the fuel line connection. Any thoughts before I just start replacing parts? From ericm at lne.com Tue May 3 16:41:28 2011 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 15:41:28 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman edger motor lost its suck In-Reply-To: <840591.68912.qm@web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <840591.68912.qm@web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110503224128.GB9514@slack> I'd take the carb off, disassemble it and clean it out. I'm guessing that it's got gunk from the hose stuck in it. Eric On Tue, May 03, 2011 at 03:11:56PM -0700, Ron Horwitz wrote: > 25cc 2 stroke engine died mid use. Upon inspection, the original fuel hose disintegrated and dropped the pickup into the tank. I replaced the hose, and squeezed the bulb to reprime and the problems started. I can see bubbles in the fuel as I squeeze the bulb, but then there is no suction. I was able to suction fuel the old fashion way, so I got fuel into the tube but even then the bulb couldn't prime the engine. I took the bulb off thinking it might have a crack, but no, it'll hold vacuum on my thumb just fine. When I put it back on the plate that it attaches to ahead of the carb, I get a whistle when I push but no suction when I put my thumb over the fuel line connection. Any thoughts before I just start replacing parts? From fishplate at gmail.com Tue May 3 16:42:14 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 18:42:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman edger motor lost its suck In-Reply-To: <840591.68912.qm@web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <840591.68912.qm@web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Ron Horwitz wrote: > 25cc 2 stroke engine died mid use. Upon inspection, the original fuel hose disintegrated and dropped the pickup into the tank. I replaced the hose, and squeezed the bulb to reprime and the problems started. I can see bubbles in the fuel as I squeeze the bulb, but then there is no suction. Make sure you've run it right. My (limited) experience is that some push fuel into the carb and others suck it through from the other side. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From hillman at planet-torque.com Wed May 4 14:39:10 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 16:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> References: <8F19A7D8DFC5441397A556ED5F4990FE@CARROOM>, <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: I'm trying to make better use of the limited space in my 'shop', aka 2.5 car garage. There's a bunch of mismatched shelves and whatnot, many that I inherited from the previous owners. I'm thinking about some wall-mount storage rails. There are several different brands/models... Craftsman has VersaTrack, Rubbermaid sells FastTrack, there's FreedomRail, HoleyRail, Easy Track, FlowWall, and probably a dozen more I don't know about. Are any of them worthwhile and/or worth the money? Which ones? Thanks. -- David Hillman From battmain at yahoo.com Wed May 4 15:13:43 2011 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 14:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman edger motor lost its suck In-Reply-To: <840591.68912.qm@web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <840591.68912.qm@web36306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <403732.31995.qm@web161615.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Triple check the fuel line is run properly, or it isn't hitting the fuel. BTDT. When you think you have it in the fuel, it can actually curl up and be sucking air. Take it back apart and run the line directly into the tank from the filler, pump the primer, and see if you have fuel from the outlet going back into the tank. Did you also replace *all* the lines? And the primer is seated properly under the plate? Regards, Brian ________________________________ From: Ron Horwitz To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 6:11:56 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman edger motor lost its suck 25cc 2 stroke engine died mid use. Upon inspection, the original fuel hose disintegrated and dropped the pickup into the tank. I replaced the hose, and squeezed the bulb to reprime and the problems started. I can see bubbles in the fuel as I squeeze the bulb, but then there is no suction. I was able to suction fuel the old fashion way, so I got fuel into the tube but even then the bulb couldn't prime the engine. I took the bulb off thinking it might have a crack, but no, it'll hold vacuum on my thumb just fine. When I put it back on the plate that it attaches to ahead of the carb, I get a whistle when I push but no suction when I put my thumb over the fuel line connection. Any thoughts before I just start replacing parts? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/battmain at yahoo.com From badgermt at cableone.net Wed May 4 15:59:20 2011 From: badgermt at cableone.net (Badger Mountain Motorworks) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 14:59:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: References: <8F19A7D8DFC5441397A556ED5F4990FE@CARROOM>, <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: <4DC1CC38.1040808@cableone.net> From parkanzky at gmail.com Wed May 4 17:11:30 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 19:11:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: References: <8F19A7D8DFC5441397A556ED5F4990FE@CARROOM> <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: I bought one of the FastTrack hangers for another project and it was very poorly cast junk. It broke before I could even hang a tool on it. I may have gotten a bad one, but I'd evaluate it closely before I spent the $$$ on the system. -Paul P. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:39 PM, David Hillman wrote: > I'm trying to make better use of the limited space in my 'shop', aka 2.5 > car garage. There's a bunch of mismatched shelves and whatnot, many that I > inherited from the previous owners. I'm thinking about some wall-mount > storage rails. There are several different brands/models... Craftsman has > VersaTrack, Rubbermaid sells FastTrack, there's FreedomRail, HoleyRail, Easy > Track, FlowWall, and probably a dozen more I don't know about. > > Are any of them worthwhile and/or worth the money? Which ones? > > Thanks. > > -- > David Hillman From badgermt at cableone.net Wed May 4 17:39:20 2011 From: badgermt at cableone.net (Badger Mountain Motorworks) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 16:39:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: <4DC1CC38.1040808@cableone.net> References: <8F19A7D8DFC5441397A556ED5F4990FE@CARROOM>, <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> <4DC1CC38.1040808@cableone.net> Message-ID: <4DC1E3A8.6050201@cableone.net> /F2vtAp: Permission denied From obaa996 at yahoo.com Wed May 4 17:47:54 2011 From: obaa996 at yahoo.com (Obaa) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 16:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <360903.45107.qm@web161405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I have the Gladiator system, which I bought from Lowe's, but which is also available at Sears, etc. I bought a small section, primarily because it was going to be used alongside some Gladiator cabinets I got for cheap (vanity; I wanted it all to match, and since I got the cabinets cheap...). I've only used it for basic stuff (hanging sports equipment), but my kids are not too gentle racking gear back up, and it seems to be holding up well. I'd buy it again.... On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:39 PM, David Hillman wrote: > I'm trying to make better use of the limited space in my 'shop', aka > 2.5 car garage. There's a bunch of mismatched shelves and whatnot, > many that I inherited from the previous owners. I'm thinking about > some wall-mount storage rails. There are several different > brands/models... Craftsman has VersaTrack, Rubbermaid sells FastTrack, > there's FreedomRail, HoleyRail, Easy Track, FlowWall, and probably a dozen more >I don't know about. > > Are any of them worthwhile and/or worth the money? Which ones? > > Thanks. > > -- > David Hillman From brabel at comcast.net Wed May 4 17:50:18 2011 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 16:50:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: References: <8F19A7D8DFC5441397A556ED5F4990FE@CARROOM> <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: <073B53C9-3E4C-4AC1-B4EF-41EE7D4944AA@comcast.net> I have used some Flow Wall, and the stuff is pretty good, although the hangers sure are expensive! They are well made, and the wall strips are extruded plastic, rather than the pressboard stuff I've seen. The general-purpose hangers seem to be the most useful, rather than the purpose-built bike hangers, and shelves and such. Costco.com has some good starter packages. - Bill Rabel Anacortes > > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:39 PM, David Hillman wrote: > >> I'm trying to make better use of the limited space in my 'shop', aka 2.5 >> car garage. There's a bunch of mismatched shelves and whatnot, many that I >> inherited from the previous owners. I'm thinking about some wall-mount >> storage rails. There are several different brands/models... Craftsman has >> VersaTrack, Rubbermaid sells FastTrack, there's FreedomRail, HoleyRail, Easy >> Track, FlowWall, and probably a dozen more I don't know about. >> >> Are any of them worthwhile and/or worth the money? Which ones? >> > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/brabel at comcast.net From brabel at comcast.net Wed May 4 20:10:42 2011 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 19:10:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: References: <8F19A7D8DFC5441397A556ED5F4990FE@CARROOM> <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: I have used some Flow Wall, and the stuff is pretty good, although the hangers sure are expensive! They are well made, and the wall strips are extruded plastic, rather than the pressboard stuff I've seen. The general-purpose hangers seem to be the most useful, rather than the purpose-built bike hangers, and shelves and such. Costco.com has some good starter packages. - Bill Rabel Anacortes > > On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 4:39 PM, David Hillman wrote: > >> I'm trying to make better use of the limited space in my 'shop', aka 2.5 >> car garage. There's a bunch of mismatched shelves and whatnot, many that I >> inherited from the previous owners. I'm thinking about some wall-mount >> storage rails. There are several different brands/models... Craftsman has >> VersaTrack, Rubbermaid sells FastTrack, there's FreedomRail, HoleyRail, Easy >> Track, FlowWall, and probably a dozen more I don't know about. >> >> Are any of them worthwhile and/or worth the money? Which ones? >> > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/brabel at comcast.net From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu May 5 06:33:19 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 08:33:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <4DBC8C2C.8090303@teleport.com> References: <4DBC6846.5010106@snet.net> <4DBC83F1.9000706@comcast.net> <4DBC8C2C.8090303@teleport.com> Message-ID: <4DC2990F.4020603@gmail.com> "Free shipping and no tax if you don't live in IN. " I'm not "that guy", but for what it's worth we just had a client get LIT UP over this, bad. And I expect any other seller of fairly big-ticket items that ships a lot is probably drawing attention from the taxing authorities as well. Something to be aware of. From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Thu May 5 06:34:21 2011 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 08:34:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: References: <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: <20110505123421.GA16957@sackheads.org> On Wed, May 04, 2011 at 04:39:10PM -0400, David Hillman wrote: > I'm trying to make better use of the limited space in my 'shop', aka 2.5 > car garage. There's a bunch of mismatched shelves and whatnot, many that I > inherited from the previous owners. I'm thinking about some wall-mount > storage rails. There are several different brands/models... Craftsman has > VersaTrack, Rubbermaid sells FastTrack, there's FreedomRail, HoleyRail, > Easy Track, FlowWall, and probably a dozen more I don't know about. While we're on the subject, I'd be keen to see some photos of people's shop organization/shelving layouts. I'm looking to replace my standard&bracket system with something that doesn't waste as much wallspace... JM From bspidell at comcast.net Thu May 5 07:42:51 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 06:42:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <4DC2990F.4020603@gmail.com> References: <4DBC6846.5010106@snet.net> <4DBC83F1.9000706@comcast.net> <4DBC8C2C.8090303@teleport.com> <4DC2990F.4020603@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DC2A95B.8020904@comcast.net> My understanding--I'm not a lawyer--is that there is no law requiring any seller to collect tax on items sold/shipped to a purchaser from outside that seller's home state (but there will be eventually--bet on it). I live in California, so it is up to me to declare out-of-state purchases and pay the sales tax, which I generally do (if I can find the paperwork). Since you quoted me, I'll clarify: "The seller will not charge sales tax if you live outside of IN, so it's up to you to handle that as you and your taxing authorities see fit." That's what I meant when I wrote that (yep). Who 'lit up' your client? What was your client trying to pull off? Are you a lawyer or an accountant? Bob On 5/5/2011 5:33 AM, Scott Hall wrote: > "Free shipping and no tax if you don't live in IN. " > > I'm not "that guy", but for what it's worth we just had a client get LIT UP over this, bad. And I expect any other > seller of fairly big-ticket items that ships a lot is probably drawing attention from the taxing authorities as well. > Something to be aware of. > _______________________________________________ > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From ronnie.day at gmail.com Thu May 5 08:34:51 2011 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 09:34:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <4DC2A95B.8020904@comcast.net> References: <4DBC6846.5010106@snet.net> <4DBC83F1.9000706@comcast.net> <4DBC8C2C.8090303@teleport.com> <4DC2990F.4020603@gmail.com> <4DC2A95B.8020904@comcast.net> Message-ID: There has been considerable discussion in any number of state legislatures regarding the "desirability" of collecting state/local sales tax on mail order and internet sales. AFAIK, nothing has been done, at least nothing widespread. That said, if a company has a sales presence in you state (Texas in my case) and you buy directly from the company (Apple, Microsoft, Sears, big businesses or even small one operating only in your state), the seller should collect the tax. That's why many of us buy our big ticket items from outfits like Amazon or smaller out of state vendors. FWIW, Ron On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 8:42 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > My understanding--I'm not a lawyer--is that there is no law requiring any > seller to collect tax on items sold/shipped to a purchaser from outside that > seller's home state (but there will be eventually--bet on it). I live in > California, so it is up to me to declare out-of-state purchases and pay the > sales tax, which I generally do (if I can find the paperwork). > > Since you quoted me, I'll clarify: "The seller will not charge sales tax if > you live outside of IN, so it's up to you to handle that as you and your > taxing authorities see fit." That's what I meant when I wrote that (yep). > > Who 'lit up' your client? What was your client trying to pull off? Are > you a lawyer or an accountant? From eric at megageek.com Thu May 5 08:52:59 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 10:52:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: <20110505123421.GA16957@sackheads.org> Message-ID: I looked at a bunch of them and I can't justify the expense to get sucked into having to buy their storage systems. If you want your garage to look nice, they can't be beat. But, if you are more concerned about functionality and maximizing the storage space available, these are a waste. I have found that custom built is much better. Get some cheap shelves from places going out of business, then keep 'upgrading.' Besides, how often do you need to move a storage rack or cabinet once you put it in place? Seems like attaching it directly to the wall is the best bet. Just my $0.02 Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Jimmie Mayfield Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 05/05/2011 08:41 To shop-talk at autox.team.net cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? On Wed, May 04, 2011 at 04:39:10PM -0400, David Hillman wrote: > I'm trying to make better use of the limited space in my 'shop', aka 2.5 > car garage. There's a bunch of mismatched shelves and whatnot, many that I > inherited from the previous owners. I'm thinking about some wall-mount > storage rails. There are several different brands/models... Craftsman has > VersaTrack, Rubbermaid sells FastTrack, there's FreedomRail, HoleyRail, > Easy Track, FlowWall, and probably a dozen more I don't know about. While we're on the subject, I'd be keen to see some photos of people's shop organization/shelving layouts. I'm looking to replace my standard&bracket system with something that doesn't waste as much wallspace... JM _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Thu May 5 09:33:11 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: References: <8F19A7D8DFC5441397A556ED5F4990FE@CARROOM> <485F9F6F3863493AA7EFAD3A3D402C69@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 May 2011, Bill Rabel wrote: > I have used some Flow Wall, and the stuff is pretty good, although the hangers > sure are expensive! This is one of my concerns. I'm pretty cheap, and to boot, I just made a bracket-bender the other day. I'd much rather make my own hangers and such, versus paying, say, $20 for each, unless they are really, really nice. $18 or so for 7 feet of the rail isn't bad at all, and I don't mind that... but $20 times a dozen hangers makes the whole thing not worth while. -- David Hillman From peterwmurray at gmail.com Thu May 5 09:30:02 2011 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 11:30:02 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: <570974.90243.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20110503201410.P1RJ5.5894.root@cdptpa-web06-z02> <570974.90243.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ridgid has a lifetime battery warranty..... if you register the product with them within the first 90 days of ownership. I didn't notice that detail when I bought mine, unfortunately. I'm in the same boat with many of you, with a circa 1999 Craftsman 14.4V cordless drill and two batteries which don't go for long. Rebuilt the packs summer 2006, and they need it again. Also have the aforementioned Ridgid power screwdriver (9.6V) with two flat packs. Rebuilding the packs again is at least $50/ea if I have Batteries Plus do the work - but I can go to HF and buy a pack AND drill for under $30. I need to get a corded drill anyway - is there a particular one any of you recommend? I'd like the ability to hammer (with or without rotation) as well as some reasonable torque... -Peter On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Rand E wrote: > Don't Ridgid tools have a lifetime warranty? > > Randy > ________________________________ > From: "bjshov8 at tx.rr.com" > To: shop-talk > Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 3:14:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement > > I think you could probably > use them if they would fit, but I would expect that > manufacturers would make > the ends a bit different so one voltage system wouldn't > interchange with > another voltage system. > > You could always buy another battery on ebay, or take > apart your dead one and > buy new cells at radioshack or wherever. I have a > cordless shaver and cordless > trimmer that both are pretty old. I've replaced > batteries in each one by taking > out the old battery and matching it up at > radioshack, then soldering in the new > one. > > I have a new Ridgid 18V drill w/ > LiIon batteries. The original batteries are > worthless. I've thought about > opening them up and rebuilding them, but I'll > probably mail them back to > Ridgid along with a complaint letter and hope they > will send me new ones. > > >> > I've got a Crapsman cordless drill 18 volt. >> >> batteries are dead and won't > take a charge >> >> I have some 19.2 volt crapsman batteries from another drill >> >> can you use the 19.2s in the 18 volt drill without screwing anything up > ?? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu May 5 10:16:46 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 12:16:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <4DC2A95B.8020904@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20110505161646.MQO6J.18622.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> I think if a company has a branch in your state then your state can require them to collect income taxes. For instance I can mail order from some companies without paying sales tax, but other companies that have warehouses in my state are required to collect tax. CA (or maybe KA) has repeatedly tried to pass laws requiring collection of income tax for businesses with very minor business connections in the state, for instance if a company has an advertising relationship with a website based in KA, then KA can require them to collect sales tax. So far these laws have not passed. KA is thinking this will boost their tax collection, but what it would probably do is to sever relationships with these companies and reduce revenue collected by KA businesses, thus reducing KA's tax collections. > My understanding--I'm not a lawyer--is that there is no law requiring any seller to collect tax on items sold/shipped to > a purchaser from outside that seller's home state (but there will be eventually--bet on it). I live in California, so > it is up to me to declare out-of-state purchases and pay the sales tax, which I generally do (if I can find the paperwork). From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu May 5 10:28:16 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 12:28:16 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Modular wall-mount storage rails? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110505162816.1HQET.18691.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> I posted this photo on another link, in the background you can see pegboard on my wall for small tool storage. I think the pegboard is great, and almost infinitely customizable, but my problem is lack of patience and imagination. If you had a perfect layout you could fit a lot of tools on the pegboard and it would be very efficient. The problem for me is starting with a clean slate and coming up with the perfect layout. I just started hanging stuff wherever it would fit and that's where it stands today. I have made very minor refinements when I noticed something didn't fit just right- pull out its hook and move it over a few holes. I think people buy the pre-made systems thinking they will provide the perfect layout for you already. They might help but you still need to make them fit your requirements rather than having them work for you already. And for bigger stuff you just need a bunch of nails to put in the wall. Rather than buy the big fancy wall system you can nail some long boards onto the wall and then put nails into the boards wherever needed to hang your brooms and shovels and so forth. But again it takes more thought and imagination on your part than the pre-made system does. Besides hanging stuff on walls I want as many open shelves as I can fit in there. I remember a TV show or movie one time where the main character lived in a 2-bedroom apartment but her profession required her to have a lot of clothes so she converted one bedroom into a closet and filled it with clothes racks. This seemed reasonable to me. I noticed that my brother in law in his new house has a room between the garage and the house where he put in a bunch of the wire shelving and he stores all of his hunting and outdoor gear there. Again just having some extra shelving makes that storage so much easier. I would like to have an extra room at my house that I could just fill with shelves like a little warehouse. It would make it so much easier to put things there and be able to find them rather than having to dig 10 boxes out of a closet to look into the box that is on the bottom like I have to do right now. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/bjd70/MG/IMG_2036b.jpg > I looked at a bunch of them and I can't justify the expense to get sucked > into having to buy their storage systems. > > If you want your garage to look nice, they can't be beat. > > But, if you are more concerned about functionality and maximizing the > storage space available, these are a waste. > > I have found that custom built is much better. Get some cheap shelves > from places going out of business, then keep 'upgrading.' From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu May 5 10:30:30 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 12:30:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110505163030.M1MDS.18711.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> I never register any product that I buy. Strictly speaking I'm not sure that registration is legally required if a person really wanted to fight it. For a corded drill I would probably buy a DeWalt. > Ridgid has a lifetime battery warranty..... if you register the > product with them within the first 90 days of ownership. I didn't > notice that detail when I bought mine, unfortunately. > > I'm in the same boat with many of you, with a circa 1999 Craftsman > 14.4V cordless drill and two batteries which don't go for long. > Rebuilt the packs summer 2006, and they need it again. Also have the > aforementioned Ridgid power screwdriver (9.6V) with two flat packs. > Rebuilding the packs again is at least $50/ea if I have Batteries Plus > do the work - but I can go to HF and buy a pack AND drill for under > $30. > > I need to get a corded drill anyway - is there a particular one any of > you recommend? I'd like the ability to hammer (with or without > rotation) as well as some reasonable torque... From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu May 5 11:13:25 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (scott.hall.personal at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 17:13:25 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder Message-ID: Hey Bob, I wasn't trying to be snarky or anything, my email was more from my surprise at this guy getting reamed. Your understanding of the issue is correct--states are only required to collect if the company has a nexus in the state of sale. What state Departments of Revenue are doing is going to the company and getting customer detail and requesting payments those customers 'forgot' to make. That's nothing new, they've just ramped up the activity. I think they're looking for some heads on pikes, so to speak. I was just thinking about it yesterday, then we were talking about lifts. I'm thinking now I might go to the local dealer and see if they can match the online price, or get close. That's a big-ticket individual item. I don't know that the DoR would ever catch up with that sale, but that seems to be the population they're examining--relatively few sales for 'larger' amounts by a small-ish vendor they can intimidate. This is not at all a scolding or anything of that nature, more just me being a little wow-ed and not wanting any of y'all to find yourselves on the bad end of one of those notices, or at least to be fully informed. Oh, yeah, I'm an accountant. ------Original Message------ From: Bob Spidell To: Scott Hall Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder Sent: May 5, 2011 9:42 AM My understanding--I'm not a lawyer--is that there is no law requiring any seller to collect tax on items sold/shipped to a purchaser from outside that seller's home state (but there will be eventually--bet on it). I live in California, so it is up to me to declare out-of-state purchases and pay the sales tax, which I generally do (if I can find the paperwork). Since you quoted me, I'll clarify: "The seller will not charge sales tax if you live outside of IN, so it's up to you to handle that as you and your taxing authorities see fit." That's what I meant when I wrote that (yep). Who 'lit up' your client? What was your client trying to pull off? Are you a lawyer or an accountant? Bob On 5/5/2011 5:33 AM, Scott Hall wrote: > "Free shipping and no tax if you don't live in IN. " > > I'm not "that guy", but for what it's worth we just had a client get LIT UP over this, bad. And I expect any other > seller of fairly big-ticket items that ships a lot is probably drawing attention from the taxing authorities as well. > Something to be aware of. > _______________________________________________ > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From pethier at comcast.net Thu May 5 11:39:37 2011 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 17:39:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: <20110505163030.M1MDS.18711.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> Message-ID: <1122528656.92319.1304617177910.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > I never register any product that I buy. Strictly speaking I'm not > sure that registration is legally required if a person really wanted > to fight it. Registration is not required under Minnesota state law. Check the laws where you live. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack" 2004 Suburban 8.1 2005 Lotus Elise 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com From eltonclark at gmail.com Thu May 5 12:25:22 2011 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:25:22 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <20110505161646.MQO6J.18622.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> References: <4DC2A95B.8020904@comcast.net> <20110505161646.MQO6J.18622.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> Message-ID: *There's a huge flap going on in Texas with Amazon fighting* *the state's claim of some $200 million in sales tax **because* * Amazon used a claimed independent Texas distribution * *center to ship **goods.* ** http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110210/ap_on_bi_ge/us_amazon_sales_tax_dispute From bspidell at comcast.net Thu May 5 12:52:15 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 18:52:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <20110505174007.17214187889@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <750937941.4729226.1304621535872.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> No problemo. Bob -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA Hey Bob, I wasn't trying to be snarky or anything, my email was more from my surprise at this guy getting reamed. Your understanding of the issue is correct--states are only required to collect if the company has a nexus in the state of sale. What state Departments of Revenue are doing is going to the company and getting customer detail and requesting payments those customers 'forgot' to make. That's nothing new, they've just ramped up the activity. I think they're looking for some heads on pikes, so to speak. I was just thinking about it yesterday, then we were talking about lifts. I'm thinking now I might go to the local dealer and see if they can match the online price, or get close. That's a big-ticket individual item. I don't know that the DoR would ever catch up with that sale, but that seems to be the population they're examining--relatively few sales for 'larger' amounts by a small-ish vendor they can intimidate. This is not at all a scolding or anything of that nature, more just me being a little wow-ed and not wanting any of y'all to find yourselves on the bad end of one of those notices, or at least to be fully informed. Oh, yeah, I'm an accountant. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu May 5 13:03:37 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (scott.hall.personal at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:03:37 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: References: <4DC2A95B.8020904@comcast.net><20110505161646.MQO6J.18622.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> Message-ID: Yup, and if I remember the article correctly, Amazon planned to shutter the facility rather than admit to the nexus and collect and remit the tax. I am ALL ABOUT paying every cent of tax you owe, but that seems like a colossally stupid move by Texas. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:25:22 To: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder *There's a huge flap going on in Texas with Amazon fighting* *the state's claim of some $200 million in sales tax **because* * Amazon used a claimed independent Texas distribution * *center to ship **goods.* ** http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110210/ap_on_bi_ge/us_amazon_sales_tax_dispute _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu May 5 13:51:02 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 12:51:02 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: <1122528656.92319.1304617177910.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <20110505163030.M1MDS.18711.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> <1122528656.92319.1304617177910.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <093001cc0b5d$c419c8f0$4c4d5ad0$@rr.com> > Registration is not required under Minnesota state law. Check the laws > where you live. Nor California. But manufacturers like to imply that it is required, so they can collect information on who buys their product. -- Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu May 5 16:13:36 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 17:13:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: <093001cc0b5d$c419c8f0$4c4d5ad0$@rr.com> References: <20110505163030.M1MDS.18711.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> <1122528656.92319.1304617177910.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <093001cc0b5d$c419c8f0$4c4d5ad0$@rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Randall wrote: >> Registration is not required under Minnesota state law. B Check the laws >> where you live. > > Nor California. B But manufacturers like to imply that it is required, so > they can collect information on who buys their product. > Generally, the warranty is written in such a way that if you don't register, you get the basic warranty of the product, but if you register, you qualify for something else, like the extention of the term. That's legal most places. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu May 5 17:25:45 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:25:45 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] nicad battery replacement In-Reply-To: References: <20110505163030.M1MDS.18711.root@cdptpa-web24-z02> <1122528656.92319.1304617177910.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <093001cc0b5d$c419c8f0$4c4d5ad0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <096101cc0b7b$c2d20b10$48762130$@rr.com> > Generally, the warranty is written in such a way that if you don't > register, you get the basic warranty of the product, but if you > register, you qualify for something else, like the extention of the > term. That's legal most places. Not in CA. In fact, CA civil code 1793.1 (a) (1) (B) requires that if there is a registration form, it must contain a statement that "Informs the consumer that failure to complete and return the card or form does not diminish his or her warranty rights." -- Randall From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri May 6 07:07:27 2011 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 08:07:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <20110505192408.24842187675@autox.team.net> References: <4DC2A95B.8020904@comcast.net><20110505161646.MQO6J.18622.root@cdptpa-web24-z02>, <20110505192408.24842187675@autox.team.net> Message-ID: That is what happened to several Amazon and Overstocked affilates in Illinois. This is a paragaph I copied from knoxnews.com Under the new law, called the Main Street Fairness Act, online retailers must collect and remit sales taxes on purchases made by Illinois residents if the online retailer has a physical presence in the state. The new law expands the meaning of "physical presence" beyond a warehouse, factory or office to include affiliate companies, typically deal and coupon website operators that earn commissions for directing shopping traffic to an online store Rich White Central, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF###L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com > Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:03:37 +0000 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder > > Yup, and if I remember the article correctly, Amazon planned to shutter the facility rather than admit to the nexus and collect and remit the tax. > > I am ALL ABOUT paying every cent of tax you owe, but that seems like a colossally stupid move by Texas. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" > Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:25:22 > To: Shop Talk List > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder > > *There's a huge flap going on in Texas with Amazon fighting* > *the state's claim of some $200 million in sales tax **because* > * Amazon used a claimed independent Texas distribution * > *center to ship **goods.* > ** > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110210/ap_on_bi_ge/us_amazon_sales_tax_dispute > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com From pethier at comcast.net Fri May 6 09:43:04 2011 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 15:43:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tig Welder In-Reply-To: <1447035654.140111.1304696543912.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <580250620.140163.1304696584873.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I bought a camera direct from Kodak online several years back. They nicked me for Minnesota sales tax. I called them on it and they said that Kodak has a presence in Minnesota. Has not happened to me before or since with any other out-of-state outfit. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack" 2004 Suburban 8.1 2005 Lotus Elise 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com From pdqtr6 at comcast.net Fri May 6 17:41:36 2011 From: pdqtr6 at comcast.net (pdqtr6 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 23:41:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl Message-ID: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I have the task at work of removing a lot of vinyl lettering from the sides of the 2 company delivery vans.B The lettering and logos have been on the vans since they were new several years ago, and are quite secure.B Are there any tips or (better yet) trade secrets that you can share?B I have a real heat gun (not a hair dryer), a fresh can of 3M adhesive remover, and an old razor blade scraper (which scares the s**t out of me).B Unfortunately, I also have an impatient boss. Thanks for any help...B Tom Walling From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri May 6 18:30:52 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 19:30:52 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1D2C1E5B-21E1-4DD9-9035-49FAFD71ADBF@gmail.com> Unless your signs are on glass forget the razor. There's a plastic tool called a little chisler that s handy but failing that a good hard plastic bowl scrapper along with heat are the best. Glue goop is for after it comes off. I'd call a few body and detail shops, to get an idea of what it costs. On May 6, 2011, at 6:41 PM, pdqtr6 at comcast.net wrote: > I have the task at work of removing a lot of vinyl lettering from > the sides of > the 2 company delivery vans.B The lettering and logos have been on > the vans > since they were new several years ago, and are quite secure.B Are > there any > tips or (better yet) trade secrets that you can share?B I have a > real heat > gun (not a hair dryer), a fresh can of 3M adhesive remover, and an > old razor > blade scraper (which scares the s**t out of me).B Unfortunately, I > also have > an impatient boss. > > > > Thanks for any help...B Tom Walling > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com From bobkegel at comcast.net Fri May 6 18:40:47 2011 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 17:40:47 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4322724514314AAE963DB4D833505B21@robertve2wc7wm> You want a vinyl eraser: http://www.eastwood.com/vinyl-eraser-and-arbor.html From fishplate at gmail.com Fri May 6 18:45:25 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 20:45:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 7:41 PM, wrote: > I have the task at work of removing a lot of vinyl lettering from the sides of > the 2 company delivery vans. I'd try the heat gun and a plastic putty knife or a cheap plastic drywall mud knife. From bottorff25 at verizon.net Fri May 6 18:50:09 2011 From: bottorff25 at verizon.net (bottorff25 at verizon.net) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 19:50:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl Message-ID: <1580313462.3620582.1304729409714.JavaMail.root@vznit170146> /mX5Pkk: Permission denied From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat May 7 07:17:26 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 09:17:26 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westch ester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110507091412.04d8a168@cox.net> At 07:41 PM 5/6/2011, pdqtr6 at comcast.net wrote: >I have the task at work of removing a lot of vinyl lettering from the sides of >the 2 company delivery vans.B The lettering and logos have been on the vans >since they were new several years ago, and are quite secure.B Are there any >tips or (better yet) trade secrets that you can share?B I have a real heat >gun (not a hair dryer), a fresh can of 3M adhesive remover, and an old razor >blade scraper (which scares the s**t out of me).B Unfortunately, I also have >an impatient boss. I wouldn't get a razor blade scraper or heat gun any place near the paint job. You'd be supprised how quickly the heat gun will bubble and lift the paint off a vechile. The razor blade scraper will cut and peel the paint also. So remove both of these from concideration. I agree with what others have said: 1. try talking to a auto paint supply house and aske them what they'd recommend. 2. the vinyl eraser looks promisiong. John >Thanks for any help...B Tom Walling >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948 at cox.net John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From eric at megageek.com Sat May 7 12:59:47 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 14:59:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Tom, I used a heat gun and razor blade to remove almost full height graphics from a enclosed trailer without any problems. Ideally, if you could have two people, one with the heat gun and one with the razor blade. Also, make sure the blades are brand new. Don't try to heat up much more than where you are working on the letters. If you pick a nice hot and sunny day, you might not even need the heat gun. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson pdqtr6 at comcast.net Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 05/07/2011 09:14 AM To shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net cc Subject [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl I have the task at work of removing a lot of vinyl lettering from the sides of the 2 company delivery vans.B The lettering and logos have been on the vans since they were new several years ago, and are quite secure.B Are there any tips or (better yet) trade secrets that you can share?B I have a real heat gun (not a hair dryer), a fresh can of 3M adhesive remover, and an old razor blade scraper (which scares the s**t out of me).B Unfortunately, I also have an impatient boss. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat May 7 14:04:55 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 15:04:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20110507091412.04d8a168@cox.net> References: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20110507091412.04d8a168@cox.net> Message-ID: On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 8:17 AM, John T. Blair wrote: > I wouldn't get a razor blade scraper or heat gun any place near the paint > job. > > You'd be supprised how quickly the heat gun will bubble and lift the paint > off > a vechile. >'' Heat gun and plastic bladed scraper are standard industrial methods. > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat May 7 15:30:21 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 17:30:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: References: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20110507091412.04d8a168@cox.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110507172850.04c49fb0@cox.net> At 04:04 PM 5/7/2011, David wrote: >Heat gun and plastic bladed scraper are standard industrial methods. David, Wow, I'm supprised. But maybe I just don't move the heat gun fast enough. Although I must admitt, that when I usually use a heat gun, I am trying to remove the paint. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat May 7 20:02:13 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 21:02:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20110507172850.04c49fb0@cox.net> References: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20110507091412.04d8a168@cox.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20110507172850.04c49fb0@cox.net> Message-ID: On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 4:30 PM, John T. Blair wrote: > At 04:04 PM 5/7/2011, David wrote: > >>Heat gun and plastic bladed scraper are standard industrial methods. > > David, > > Wow, B I'm supprised. B But maybe I just don't move the heat gun fast enough. > Although I must admitt, that when I usually use a heat gun, I am trying to > remove the paint. > I meant to send this to the list, and not just John. You need to heat the glue enough it softens, but way less than bubbling paint. It takes some practice, but there's a fair amount of leeway. It's better to use a little too little heat, whcih will leave goo on the surface. The 3M adhesive remover should take that right off. If the graphics have been there a while, ti's harder, because the graphics tend to crumble. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sat May 7 20:26:40 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 22:26:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: References: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><6.2.5.6.1.20110507091412.04d8a168@cox.net><6.2.5.6.1.20110507172850.04c49fb0@cox.net> Message-ID: <5994608759B6486FA71496682BA75826@EricJRussellPC> And note that there will likely be some fading of the paint not covered by the lettering. So removing the graphics may not remove all traces of the lettering. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun May 8 19:48:50 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 18:48:50 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phantom air leak Message-ID: <072201cc0deb$3eac80f0$0301a8c0@randall> So, I've got this somewhat older 80 gallon air compressor mounted in the back yard, and plumbed to the garage. The garage plumbing isn't completely air tight, so I usually close the ball valve at the tank outlet when I'm not using the system, to hold pressure in the tank (and avoid having to pump it up next time I use it). But lately, the tank will leak down significantly in just a day or two. Funny thing is, I left the ball valve open last night, and the tank is still nearly full 24 hours later. Seems that the only explanation is that the valve itself is bad. Does anyone have an alternate theory? Am I overlooking something? And any suggestions on a quality 3/4" ball valve that will actually hold 180 psi air? -- Randall From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sun May 8 20:14:15 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 22:14:15 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phantom air leak In-Reply-To: <072201cc0deb$3eac80f0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <072201cc0deb$3eac80f0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <15F44DBCEB734D8B91DC114C80B48214@EricJRussellPC> Spray a soapy water solution around/on the ball valve. Might show if/where it is leaking. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 9:48 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Phantom air leak > So, I've got this somewhat older 80 gallon air compressor mounted in the > back yard, and plumbed to the garage. The garage plumbing isn't > completely > air tight, so I usually close the ball valve at the tank outlet when I'm > not > using the system, to hold pressure in the tank (and avoid having to pump > it > up next time I use it). > > But lately, the tank will leak down significantly in just a day or two. > Funny thing is, I left the ball valve open last night, and the tank is > still > nearly full 24 hours later. Seems that the only explanation is that the > valve itself is bad. Does anyone have an alternate theory? Am I > overlooking something? > > And any suggestions on a quality 3/4" ball valve that will actually hold > 180 > psi air? From kvacek at ameritech.net Sun May 8 20:27:50 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 21:27:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phantom air leak In-Reply-To: <072201cc0deb$3eac80f0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <072201cc0deb$3eac80f0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <000901cc0df0$b2379140$16a6b3c0$@ameritech.net> Bad check valve at the compressor? Unloader valve leaking? Karl -----Original Message----- From: Randall Subject: [Shop-talk] Phantom air leak So, I've got this somewhat older 80 gallon air compressor mounted in the back yard, and plumbed to the garage. The garage plumbing isn't completely air tight, so I usually close the ball valve at the tank outlet when I'm not using the system, to hold pressure in the tank (and avoid having to pump it up next time I use it). But lately, the tank will leak down significantly in just a day or two. Funny thing is, I left the ball valve open last night, and the tank is still nearly full 24 hours later. Seems that the only explanation is that the valve itself is bad. Does anyone have an alternate theory? Am I overlooking something? From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun May 8 21:38:09 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 20:38:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phantom air leak In-Reply-To: <15F44DBCEB734D8B91DC114C80B48214@EricJRussellPC> References: <072201cc0deb$3eac80f0$0301a8c0@randall> <15F44DBCEB734D8B91DC114C80B48214@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <078a01cc0dfa$845db2e0$0301a8c0@randall> > Spray a soapy water solution around/on the ball valve. Good thought, but it didn't show anything. I forgot to mention, I already soaped everything I could get to, including the drain valve. > Bad check valve at the compressor? Unloader valve leaking? I was thinking about the check valve at the tank, but I can't explain why it would leak less with the outlet valve open. And I'm not particularly eager to rip into the unit far enough to R&R the check valve. The unloader valve is supposed to bleed the pressure off of the compressor when it's not running, so it doesn't seem like the unloader or compressor could be the problem. -- Randall From doug at dougbraun.com Mon May 9 04:59:58 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 06:59:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phantom air leak In-Reply-To: <078a01cc0dfa$845db2e0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <072201cc0deb$3eac80f0$0301a8c0@randall> <15F44DBCEB734D8B91DC114C80B48214@EricJRussellPC> <078a01cc0dfa$845db2e0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: I leak that big ought to be audible, at least with your ear close to the source. There aren't too many things it could be: the main check valve, the outlet valve, the drain valve, or the pressure gauge. The outlet valve on my compressor is just a 3/4" ball valve from Home Depot. It is about 5 years old and has given me no trouble. Doug From battmain at yahoo.com Mon May 9 16:17:56 2011 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl In-Reply-To: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <453480678.83024.1304725296657.JavaMail.root@sz0012a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <260568.20291.qm@web161611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Go buy a case of the 3m rotary vinyl removers/erasers. You'll need two or three per van, but your arms will hurt less, and your stress level is also lower. Wear old clothes. The bits and pieces of old vinyl plus bits and pieces of the removers will get everywhere including your hair. Since the vinyl has been on there a while, assuming more than a year or two, the glue will most likely have hardened from the sun and your razor blade and heat gun will just increase your stress level. Don't ask how I know. A variable speed drill is best, and don't bother using the battery powered ones unless you're near a charger and a source for new batteries. The high drain discharge will kill them in a few cycles. The vinyl remover/eraser is like your old high school pencil eraser. It works the same way, a piece of vinyl at a time. Get the adhesive remover to help remove the lines of dirt and glue when you're done, but as mentioned, you'll still have an outline. Some cleaning polish might help, but the vinyl will be gone. Regards, Brian To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 7:41:36 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl I have the task at work of removing a lot of vinyl lettering from the sides of the 2 company delivery vans.B The lettering and logos have been on the vans since they were new several years ago, and are quite secure.B Are there any tips or (better yet) trade secrets that you can share?B I have a real heat gun (not a hair dryer), a fresh can of 3M adhesive remover, and an old razor blade scraper (which scares the s**t out of me).B Unfortunately, I also have an impatient boss. Thanks for any help...B Tom Walling _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/battmain at yahoo.com From salbrigh at nycap.rr.com Mon May 9 17:37:00 2011 From: salbrigh at nycap.rr.com (Skip Albright) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:37:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] old battery charger, how it works? Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> I have a mid 30's battery charger and I cant understand how it works. It has 120Volt AC going in. Inside is a transformer with several different wires coming off the windings, I assume these are for different voltages. It has a rotary switch, like the channel changer on your fathers TV. different amperages? a couple of glass plug fuses in holders. and a light bulb that screws into a regular light bulb base. (GE 189048) How does it make DC? or does it? Thanks Skip Nothing is as it appears Skip Albright Glenmont NY salbrigh at nycap.rr.com http://www.volvoskip.com/ From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon May 9 18:27:19 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 17:27:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] old battery charger, how it works? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> Message-ID: <00bc01cc0ea9$0682d080$13887180$@rr.com> Should be at least one diode somewhere. Any chance those "glass plug fuses" are actually vacuum tube diodes? Or do you see any flat plates with wires connected to them? Some photos would be nifty. -- Randall From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Mon May 9 18:33:19 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:33:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] old battery charger, how it works? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> Message-ID: <4DC887CF.4080809@tx.rr.com> Is this a test? I would think that normally you would have a diode to form a rectifier that would convert AC to a form of DC. Well I don't think semiconductor diodes were around then and you didn't say anything about having vacuum tubes in there. I was kind of wondering if you could take a sine wave output from one transformer and combine it with a sine wave output from another transformer that is 180 degrees out of phase, and the result would be a lumpy DC wave. But I couldn't find any evidence that anybody ever did this, so maybe my reasoning is faulty. But there were power conversion systems that used rotating elements and also systems that used vibrating points to switch between different phases. (OK, I just figured out how my reasoning about combining sine waves was faulty, so can't do that.) > I have a mid 30's battery charger and I cant understand how it works. > > It has 120Volt AC going in. > > Inside is a transformer with several different wires coming off the > windings, I assume these are for different voltages. > > It has a rotary switch, like the channel changer on your fathers TV. > different amperages? > > a couple of glass plug fuses in holders. > > and a light bulb that screws into a regular light bulb base. (GE 189048) > > How does it make DC? or does it? > > Thanks > > Skip > > > Nothing is as it appears > Skip Albright > Glenmont NY > salbrigh at nycap.rr.com > http://www.volvoskip.com/ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjshov8 at tx.rr.com > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.900 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3627 - Release Date: 05/09/11 13:35:00 From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon May 9 18:50:14 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 19:50:14 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] old battery charger, how it works? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> Message-ID: <261BA39B-1080-400D-9097-34A37BEEDCBB@gmail.com> On May 9, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Skip Albright wrote: > I have a mid 30's battery charger and > and a light bulb that screws into a regular light bulb base. (GE > 189048) > How does it make DC? or does it? > Your lightbulb isn't. It's a half wave rectifier, and the dc source. > Thanks > > Skip > > > Nothing is as it appears > Skip Albright > Glenmont NY > salbrigh at nycap.rr.com > http://www.volvoskip.com/ > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com From paul.mele at usermail.com Mon May 9 19:59:00 2011 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 21:59:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] old battery charger, how it works? In-Reply-To: <261BA39B-1080-400D-9097-34A37BEEDCBB@gmail.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> <261BA39B-1080-400D-9097-34A37BEEDCBB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <008b01cc0eb5$d605de40$82119ac0$@mele@usermail.com> here's a picture of one of them... http://bulbs.2yr.net/ge-tungar-bulb.php -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Scheidt Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 8:50 PM To: Skip Albright Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] old battery charger, how it works? On May 9, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Skip Albright wrote: > I have a mid 30's battery charger and > and a light bulb that screws into a regular light bulb base. (GE > 189048) > How does it make DC? or does it? > Your lightbulb isn't. It's a half wave rectifier, and the dc source. > Thanks > > Skip From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon May 9 20:13:56 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 21:13:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] old battery charger, how it works? In-Reply-To: <2954173326746693365@unknownmsgid> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20110509193252.04a3ffe0@pop.nycap.rr.com> <261BA39B-1080-400D-9097-34A37BEEDCBB@gmail.com> <2954173326746693365@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:59 PM, Paul Mele wrote: > here's a picture of one of them... > > http://bulbs.2yr.net/ge-tungar-bulb.php > And a description of how they work: http://www.powerstream.com/1922/battery_1922_WITTE/batteryfiles/chapter11.htm and some 1922 battery chargers. Maybe one like yours is listed? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Scheidt > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 8:50 PM > To: Skip Albright > Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] old battery charger, how it works? > > On May 9, 2011, at 6:37 PM, Skip Albright wrote: > >> I have a mid 30's battery charger and >> and a light bulb that screws into a regular light bulb base. (GE >> 189048) > >> How does it make DC? B or does it? >> > > Your lightbulb isn't. It's a half wave rectifier, and the dc source. > >> Thanks >> >> Skip >> > > > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tputland at charter.net Wed May 11 07:32:52 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws Message-ID: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> This has probably been cussed and discussed here but since I am fairly new to this forum, I need to ask for help/advice please...... I want to buy a mitre saw for use on home projects only. I am not a carpenter but have several projects in mind as part of the "restoration" of this 105 year old craftsman style house we bought a few years ago. I just looked at saws at home depot and realized I have a dilema: I only want to spend around $200 at the most but the saws in my price range can only handle up to 6" boards. The base boards I need to replace in two rooms are around 8". Am I screwed unless I buy a bigger saw which would pretty much be wasted on this "hobbiest" wood worker? TIA Tim Dairyland Datsuns From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed May 11 08:33:13 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:33:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> Message-ID: <001101cc0fe8$5c85be80$15913b80$@ameritech.net> Harbor Freight ? Lots of possibilities - 10" and 12" sliding or not. Usually at least a couple are on sale or have coupons online. You can most always find a 20% off coupon as well. Also look at the HF coupons in magazines such as Popular Mechanics and the NRA magazines (and I'm sure others) for (often even better) bargains, or a 20%-off coupon. Karl -----Original Message----- From: Tim Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws I want to buy a mitre saw for use on home projects only. I only want to spend around $200 at the most but the saws in my price range can only handle up to 6" boards. The base boards I need to replace in two rooms are around 8". From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Wed May 11 08:32:59 2011 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:32:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> Message-ID: Perhaps a used on off Craigslist or Ebay? Alternatively, maybe you could borrow or rent a 10" saw for those projects? I bought a 10" Hitachi at Home Depot and use it a lot more often than I thought I would for DIY. At the time, I attended the HD woodworking workshop for 30 minutes one Saturday and got a 15% off coupon that I used to buy the saw. - Ian -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:33 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws This has probably been cussed and discussed here but since I am fairly new to this forum, I need to ask for help/advice please...... I want to buy a mitre saw for use on home projects only. I am not a carpenter but have several projects in mind as part of the "restoration" of this 105 year old craftsman style house we bought a few years ago. I just looked at saws at home depot and realized I have a dilema: I only want to spend around $200 at the most but the saws in my price range can only handle up to 6" boards. The base boards I need to replace in two rooms are around 8". Am I screwed unless I buy a bigger saw which would pretty much be wasted on this "hobbiest" wood worker? TIA Tim Dairyland Datsuns _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org From ejrussell at mebtel.net Wed May 11 08:53:00 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:53:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> Message-ID: <58601843EC5A4D00976CA93E2A4F2C3D@EricJRussellPC> Did you look at any of the 'sliding' mitre saws? I don't know it they are in your price range or not - I suspect some of the smaller units aimed at home owners might be close. A sliding mitre saw is sort of a combination of a chop saw and a radial arm saw. http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00921237000P?keyword=miter&prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=L3 And, BTW, what's this crap about "wasted buying bigger tools..."? You posted to Shop Talk, not the Oprah Show. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:32 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws > This has probably been cussed and discussed here but since I am fairly > new to this forum, I need to ask for help/advice please...... > > I want to buy a mitre saw for use on home projects only. I am not a > carpenter but have several projects in mind as part of the "restoration" > of this 105 year old craftsman style house we bought a few years ago. > > I just looked at saws at home depot and realized I have a dilema: I only > want to spend around $200 at the most but the saws in my price range can > only handle up to 6" boards. The base boards I need to replace in two > rooms are around 8". > > Am I screwed unless I buy a bigger saw which would pretty much be wasted > on this "hobbiest" wood worker? From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Wed May 11 09:29:36 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 08:29:36 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> Message-ID: <0d5201cc0ff0$3caed440$0301a8c0@randall> > Am I screwed unless I buy a bigger saw which would pretty > much be wasted > on this "hobbiest" wood worker? Making your own miter box hardly seems like being screwed ... -- Randall From eric at megageek.com Wed May 11 09:15:18 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 11:15:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Or maybe, you can buy my 12" Delta compound miter saw for cheap and give me a reason to upgrade to the new Hitachi that I've been eyeing!!! 8>) (But serious, where do you live? If close to NJ, I'll give it to you for a song!) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:33 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws This has probably been cussed and discussed here but since I am fairly new to this forum, I need to ask for help/advice please...... I want to buy a mitre saw for use on home projects only. I am not a carpenter but have several projects in mind as part of the "restoration" of this 105 year old craftsman style house we bought a few years ago. I just looked at saws at home depot and realized I have a dilema: I only want to spend around $200 at the most but the saws in my price range can only handle up to 6" boards. The base boards I need to replace in two rooms are around 8". Am I screwed unless I buy a bigger saw which would pretty much be wasted on this "hobbiest" wood worker? TIA From ronnie.day at gmail.com Wed May 11 13:11:36 2011 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 14:11:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We've had the Rigid 12 inch sliding/compound model for years and love it. It's big, heavy and way out of your price range, but that said, look for a major brand (Dewalt, Ridgid, Hitachi) 10 inch slider. They may be more than $200 but I'm sure it'll work better and last longer. It'll be money well spent, IMHO. Although we didn't buy it with the saw, we soon bought the MSUV (Miter Saw Utility Vehicle - I kid you not!) which is a portable mount/stand with large wheels that folds up into a hand truck. This greatly eases moving this thing around, if you want or need to do that. There are similar stands from other companies, but we like the Ridgid due to the large wheels. We also bought long 1 x 4s to extend the fences and use clamped blocks to do repeat cuts. These 1 x 4s fasten to the metal saw fences using countersunk carriage bolts and wing nuts so they're easy to remove. Regardless, get good blades and learn to adjust the saw to make sure it's cutting square. A good unit will adjust easier, stay adjusted longer and be much less frustrating to use. HTH, Ron > > This has probably been cussed and discussed here but since I am fairly new > to this forum, I need to ask for help/advice please...... > > I want to buy a mitre saw for use on home projects only. I am not a > carpenter but have several projects in mind as part of the "restoration" > of this 105 year old craftsman style house we bought a few years ago. > > I just looked at saws at home depot and realized I have a dilema: I only > want to spend around $200 at the most but the saws in my price range can > only handle up to 6" boards. The base boards I need to replace in two > rooms > are around 8". > > Am I screwed unless I buy a bigger saw which would pretty much be wasted > on > this "hobbiest" wood worker? > > TIA From doug at dougbraun.com Wed May 11 14:46:12 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 16:46:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I also a Ridgid MSUV and I am quite happy with it. It is pretty sturdy (and a bit heavy), and it is sort of overkill for my 10" DeWalt miter saw, but it makes it easy to set up and use the saw. On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Ronnie Day wrote: > Although we didn't buy it with the saw, we soon bought the MSUV > (Miter Saw Utility Vehicle - I kid you not!) which is a portable mount/stand > with large wheels that folds up into a hand truck. This greatly eases moving > this thing around, if you want or need to do that. From ronnie.day at gmail.com Wed May 11 15:08:44 2011 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 16:08:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The newer model of the MSUV is a bit smaller and looks quite a bit lighter than the one we have. As Doug points out, it can be used with brands other than Ridgid. Unless you're always going to use the saw in the same place, some sort of portable stand is a practical necessity. The cart style greatly helps moving the saw around. All this said, the last time I was at our local HD I remember seeing a package deal on (I think) a DeWalt 10 inch slider that included a (non-roll around) portable stand. Worth checking out maybe? FWIW, Ron On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: > I also a Ridgid MSUV and I am quite happy with it. It is pretty > sturdy (and a bit heavy), and it is sort of overkill for my 10" DeWalt > miter saw, but it makes it easy to set up and use the saw. From cavanadd at frontier.com Wed May 11 19:10:22 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 18:10:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> Message-ID: <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com> Or to be contrary, you could get a pretty good used radial arm saw (or four or five really crappy ones) for your budget. Look for an older DeWalt or Delta from the 50s or 60s. Tim wrote: > I want to buy a mitre saw From jandkstone99 at msn.com Wed May 11 21:23:18 2011 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 22:23:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com> References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net>, <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com> Message-ID: A few years ago I asked my wife to get me a 10" sliding saw for my birthday. She got me a 10" compound miter, but a non sliding one. For some stupid reason, I didn't return it and accepted the gift with a smile. I kick myself two or three times a year for not taking it back and getting what I wanted. Find a way to get a slider, even if it means buying a used one to stay in your budget; they are so much more versatile that I really doubt you will ever regret it. > Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 18:10:22 -0700 > From: cavanadd at frontier.com > To: tputland at charter.net > CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws > > Or to be contrary, you could get a pretty good used radial arm saw (or > four or five really crappy ones) for your budget. Look for an older > DeWalt or Delta from the 50s or 60s. > > Tim wrote: > > I want to buy a mitre saw > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From strovato at optonline.net Wed May 11 22:27:43 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 00:27:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com> Message-ID: <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> It seems that I see recommendations for used equipment often. It was built better, it will cost less, etc. I don't know how you guys manage this. My lifestyle does not include weekends dominated by garage sales and flea markets. We don't really have pawn shops in NY. Yes, there is always ebay and craig's list. If I need something, the chance of me finding one used seems pretty small. If I want something, and sometime over the next couple of years I happen to stumble across a used one, great! The other problem is, if it is something I've never owned, I'm not going to be able to tell a good one from a bad one. I don't want to learn about the critical crack in the unobtainable part after I've dragged my prize home. This can be part of the fun and adventure, but not for a tool I really need for a project. Are things very different where you guys live? Or am I just doing it wrong? -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 11:23 PM 5/11/2011, Jim Stone wrote: >Find a way to get a slider, even if it means buying a used one to stay in your >budget; they are so much more versatile that I really doubt you will ever >regret it. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu May 12 00:47:08 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 02:47:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com> <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4DCB826C.9030402@gmail.com> It's about the same for me, Steve. There are pawn shops here, but I've rarely found anything worth buying there--the owners are pretty sharp and there aren't too many deals to be had--usually the prices are close enough that for me it's worth just buying the thing new. I've found good deals on Craigslist, but it's more of a 'push' than 'pull' type thing for me--I've got the tools section displayed on my iGoogle page so I see new additions a few times a day. The few times a year that a deal pops up you have about twenty minutes to jump on it and make the deal happen before someone else does. If you just go to the site and search, pretty much anything there more than a day old isn't worth calling about--either too expensive or broken. I generally don't even look on eBay for (heavy) tool stuff--unless it's local the cost to ship essentially means you have to give the thing to me for it to be cheaper than buying new. Maybe I'm doing it wrong too. Scott On 5/12/2011 12:27 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > It seems that I see recommendations for used equipment often. It was > built better, it will cost less, etc. I don't know how you guys > manage this. My lifestyle does not include weekends dominated by > garage sales and flea markets. We don't really have pawn shops in > NY. Yes, there is always ebay and craig's list. If I need something, > the chance of me finding one used seems pretty small. If I want > something, and sometime over the next couple of years I happen to > stumble across a used one, great! The other problem is, if it is > something I've never owned, I'm not going to be able to tell a good > one from a bad one. I don't want to learn about the critical crack in > the unobtainable part after I've dragged my prize home. This can be > part of the fun and adventure, but not for a tool I really need for a > project. Are things very different where you guys live? Or am I just > doing it wrong? From eric at megageek.com Thu May 12 05:38:19 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 07:38:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Steve asks... >Are things very different where you guys live? Or am >I just doing it wrong? Excellent summary of the used markets, but you are overlooking the fact that is really the fun/educational part of the purchase. With the internet, read a ton about the tools. Read reviews, advice, and anything else you can find out about it. When I look for big ticket items, that's what I do. Then I don't resign myself to any purchase until I've fully researched it. This past winter, I managed two excellent deals this way. One was a tree spade. Normally over $2000 used, but I found one perfect for my needs for $900. I drove to MD to get it. But in the process, I made a great contact in the tree market world and I am very pleased with it. The other was a chipper/shredder for a 3pt mount. Normally these things start at $3000 USED. But by reading all I could and researching them to death, I found a medical supply company that makes them on the side when business is slow. They were right here in NJ! I went to the owner of the companies house (WAY nice) and picked up a brand new one, for $1200. No tax either. Plus, the machine is made with medical quality/grade materials. It is way nicer then the majority of them on the market for a 3rd of the price. Along the way in both research phases I learned alot about what to look for and what to stay away from. Some of that information comes from right here. Failing finding all this information, if you know nothing about a tool, don't buy it unless you get a stupid deal on it (and you will not be upset if it turns out to be less than perfect later.) Also, make the seller show you it working. If they aren't willing to do that, walk away. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From tputland at charter.net Thu May 12 05:58:19 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 07:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws Message-ID: <3db29626.5d570.12fe4125e0e.Webtop.46@charter.net> Thanks for most of the replies. At least one was, in my opinion, somewhat out of line. Anyway, I won't have a use for the portable stands metioned--I don't do construction professionally, so the saw will be only used at home. Great looking feature though! Those of you who use them must LOVE them!!! I did look at the sliding saws at HD. They were WAY out of my price range but way cool tools!!! I tried the only pawn shop less than 45 minutes from my house--it was closed (on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week) with no mention of this on their web site. Wasted gas that trip. Pissed me off big time! I ended up with the 10" compound slider from Horrible Freight (I always seem to forget about this place). I figure this saw should hold up fine for what I need to do through out the house since the saw won't be moved or worked all that hard. Thanks again to most of you. PEACE Tim Still Clueless but always learning On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Tim wrote: > This has probably been cussed and discussed here but since I am fairly > new to this forum, I need to ask for help/advice please...... > > I want to buy a mitre saw for use on home projects only. I am not a > carpenter but have several projects in mind as part of the > "restoration" of this 105 year old craftsman style house we bought a > few years ago. > > I just looked at saws at home depot and realized I have a dilema: I > only want to spend around $200 at the most but the saws in my price > range can only handle up to 6" boards. The base boards I need to > replace in two rooms are around 8". > > Am I screwed unless I buy a bigger saw which would pretty much be > wasted on this "hobbiest" wood worker? > > TIA > > Tim > Dairyland Datsuns > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From doug at dougbraun.com Thu May 12 06:06:37 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 08:06:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <4DCB826C.9030402@gmail.com> References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com> <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4DCB826C.9030402@gmail.com> Message-ID: A few months ago I was getting new tires installed on my car, and a overheard an interesting bit of dialogue. One of the mechanics mentioned to the owner that a floor jack was not working properly. He said: "Try adding some jack oil, and if that doesn't work, we'll send it to the auction." The point of course is that when a professional sells tools, it is because they no longer have a use for them. This may be because they are retiring, going out of business, etc., but it is just as likely that the tool is worn-out, broken, or was just not very good in the first place... Doug >> It seems that I see recommendations for used equipment often. It was >> built better, it will cost less, etc. I don't know how you guys manage >> this. My lifestyle does not include weekends dominated by garage sales and >> flea markets. From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Thu May 12 07:18:12 2011 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 08:18:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net>, <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com>, , <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4DCB826C.9030402@gmail.com>, Message-ID: I agree with what Doug said in the most part, but what is "worn-out" so a professional might still have many years of life left for the hoppiest. Rich White Central, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF###L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > The point of course is that when a professional sells tools, it is > because they no longer have a use for them. This may be because they > are retiring, going out of business, etc., but it is just as likely > that the tool is worn-out, broken, or was just not very good in the > first place... > > Doug From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu May 12 07:26:38 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 08:26:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net> <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com> <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4DCB826C.9030402@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:06 AM, Douglas Braun wrote: > A few months ago I was getting new tires installed on my car, and a > overheard an interesting bit of dialogue. B One of the mechanics > mentioned to the owner that a floor jack was not working properly. B He > said: B "Try adding some jack oil, and if that doesn't work, we'll send > it to the auction." > Well, I hope you've found a new tire shop. They'll probably lie to their customers, too. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From doug at dougbraun.com Thu May 12 07:39:14 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:39:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: > The other was a chipper/shredder for a 3pt mount. Normally these things > start at $3000 USED. But by reading all I could and researching them to > death, I found a medical supply company that makes them on the side when > business is slow. Yow! What sort of medical product do they normally make? I hope I'm not ever sick enough to need one! Doug From mbarre at juno.com Thu May 12 08:05:46 2011 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:05:46 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws Message-ID: <20110512.100546.8107.0@webmail01.vgs.untd.com> Maybe something from "Fargo"?!? Doug wrote: Yow! What sort of medical product do they normally make? I hope I'm not ever sick enough to need one! From eric at megageek.com Thu May 12 08:01:04 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 10:01:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually, I was very impressed with the owner. He is also a professor at Columbia at times! His company makes the industrial tools to make medical supplies and such. Think of the company that makes the machines that puts the pills in the bottles or packages needles and scalpels. What happens is that the market is very unpredictable. There are long lags with no work at times. So he looked at manufacturing something that he figured was simple and worked with his production equipment. He came up with a very effective design for a wood chipper. So he has his guys make them when business is slow. Then he sells them whenever. I was very impressed with the owner and the machine they put out. I've used the machine and it works great. I personally may make a small modification, but I think it's mostly because of how I want to use it instead of what it's best at. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll pass on his information. I have no finical interest in it, just a satisfied customer. BTW, he is looking for people that want to become dealers, so if you have a shop or know anyone, let me know. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Douglas Braun 05/12/2011 09:28 To eric at megageek.com cc shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws > The other was a chipper/shredder for a 3pt mount. Normally these things > start at $3000 USED. But by reading all I could and researching them to > death, I found a medical supply company that makes them on the side when > business is slow. Yow! What sort of medical product do they normally make? I hope I'm not ever sick enough to need one! Doug From strovato at optonline.net Thu May 12 08:19:24 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 10:19:24 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws References: <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0LL300FH46IF63P0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Moose, Very cool. How about a link to this company? Sure seems like an odd combination! Hey guys, if you've got some spare time between batches of syringes, why don't you whip up a couple of wood chippers? When you're done with that you can start work on that rocket ship. And medical grade too. Kind of makes me picture a big wheel of scalpels inside there. Of course you're right about the research. And the internet and lists like this are invaluable. I've done a few road trips for MG parts, and one to buy a distributor testing machine. I don't really need one, but it spins and flashes and it just makes me smile. I wish I could take your advice about "seeing it operate" but often the stuff I find is under half an inch of dust and hasn't run in twenty years. The person selling it can read the labels and name plates and say that all they know is that it was one of grandpa's old machines. I think our philosophies on this stuff are really quite similar. It's just depends on how badly you need something and how long you can wait. The other option I have had only limited success with is renting equipment. For certain things, it works great. But often I found myself needing to use something for half an hour, ten times over the next two weeks. That just doesn't work for rentals. -Steve At 07:38 AM 5/12/2011, eric at megageek.com wrote: >The other was a chipper/shredder for a 3pt mount. Normally these things >start at $3000 USED. But by reading all I could and researching them to >death, I found a medical supply company that makes them on the side when >business is slow. They were right here in NJ! >I went to the owner of the companies house (WAY nice) and picked up a >brand new one, for $1200. No tax either. >Plus, the machine is made with medical quality/grade materials. It is way >nicer then the majority of them on the market for a 3rd of the price. From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu May 12 09:01:27 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:01:27 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110512150127.Y3BK4.57246.root@cdptpa-web15-z01> I think it depends on your area. In my area the work market is very depressed so people are anxious to sell things and nobody has money to buy, so prices are low. In an area where everybody is working and has a lot of money, the prices will be higher. Ebay evens things out a bit because things for sale there are viewed by people across the whole country. But even at that you can find slight deals there. For instance I had looked into buying a DeWalt sliding miter saw. I found the best price at all stores in my area, then searched ebay. There were new ones available from retail sellers and even with shipping I could have saved some money. There were occasional new ones for sale by individuals for a little less, but you would have had to watch for awhile for one of these deals to pop up. > >Are things very different where you guys live? Or am > >I just doing it wrong? From strovato at optonline.net Thu May 12 09:47:54 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 11:47:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <20110512150127.Y3BK4.57246.root@cdptpa-web15-z01> References: <20110512150127.Y3BK4.57246.root@cdptpa-web15-z01> Message-ID: <0LL30068PAOFWZ00@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I always wonder what the story is behind the ebay new merchandise. Is it stolen? Is it old? Are these really returns or out-of-date models? I'm sure there are legitimate good deals, but often the savings don't seem worth it. When my $200 purchase stops working in two weeks, I'd rather be dealing with a known company than TonyABC123. -Steve At 11:01 AM 5/12/2011, bjshov8 at tx.rr.com wrote: >I think it depends on your area. In my area the work market is very >depressed so people are anxious to sell things and nobody has money >to buy, so prices are low. In an area where everybody is working >and has a lot of money, the prices will be higher. > >Ebay evens things out a bit because things for sale there are viewed >by people across the whole country. But even at that you can find >slight deals there. For instance I had looked into buying a DeWalt >sliding miter saw. I found the best price at all stores in my area, >then searched ebay. There were new ones available from retail >sellers and even with shipping I could have saved some money. There >were occasional new ones for sale by individuals for a little less, >but you would have had to watch for awhile for one of these deals to pop up. From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu May 12 10:20:02 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:20:02 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: <213c1ec1.5171b.12fdf42919e.Webtop.44@charter.net>, <4DCB337E.3070308@frontier.com>, , <0LL200714F3G30T0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><4DCB826C.9030402@gmail.com>, Message-ID: <0eb401cc10c0$72870bc0$0301a8c0@randall> > I agree with what Doug said in the most part, but what is > "worn-out" so a > professional might still have many years of life left for the > hoppiest. I agree. I was given a "worn out" long-arm floor jack over 20 years ago, and it still works fine for me after replacing a few bolts & O-rings. Ditto the battery charger that just needed diodes & battery clips. -- Randall From pethier at comcast.net Thu May 12 10:58:18 2011 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:58:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <20110512150127.Y3BK4.57246.root@cdptpa-web15-z01> Message-ID: <983153655.75889.1305219497983.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> >In an area where everybody is working and has a lot of money Where exactly is that? Minnesota is doing better than average, and we still have tons of folks out of work. From hillman at planet-torque.com Thu May 12 11:40:47 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 13:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <983153655.75889.1305219497983.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <983153655.75889.1305219497983.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 May 2011, pethier at comcast.net wrote: > Where exactly is that? Minnesota is doing better than average, and we > still have tons of folks out of work. North Dakota, actually. Unemployment is around 4% and population is growing. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2011-03-16-north-dakota-census_N.htm South Dakota and Wyoming are doing pretty good, too. -- David Hillman From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu May 12 12:23:24 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:23:24 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <983153655.75889.1305219497983.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20110512182324.7CGRI.58669.root@cdptpa-web11-z01> > >In an area where everybody is working and has a lot of money > > Where exactly is that? Minnesota is doing better than average, and we still have tons of folks out of work. I don't know where that would be. I thought my area was better off than average but we are pretty bad right now. The person looking for the tool said he wasn't finding any good deals on used equipment so I would submit that HIS area is the one where lots of people have money. Around here you certainly can't sell anything used for a very good price. From tputland at charter.net Thu May 12 14:47:02 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 16:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws Message-ID: <70595c23.573e4.12fe5f66cbf.Webtop.45@charter.net> "the hoppiest"...exactly how I like my BEER!!! EXCELLANT!! By the way, dining room is done and I turned both corners into (around) the posts into the living room. Now I have to move furniture....ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Rich White wrote: > I agree with what Doug said in the most part, but what is "worn-out" > so a > professional might still have many years of life left for the > hoppiest. > > Rich White Central, IL USA > '63 TR3B TCF###L > That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > > >> The point of course is that when a professional sells tools, it is >> because they no longer have a use for them. This may be because they >> are retiring, going out of business, etc., but it is just as likely >> that the tool is worn-out, broken, or was just not very good in the >> first place... >> >> Doug > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From cavanadd at frontier.com Thu May 12 19:31:40 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 18:31:40 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DCC89FC.6000106@frontier.com> So the name of the company is.....???? eric at megageek.com wrote: > His company makes the industrial tools to make medical supplies and such. > Think of the company that makes the machines that puts the pills in the > bottles or packages needles and scalpels. From eric at megageek.com Thu May 12 19:59:28 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 21:59:28 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <4DCC89FC.6000106@frontier.com> Message-ID: Here is a link to one of his listings. You can get to the actually company from here as well... < http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Advanced-Wood-Chipper-Mulcher-Shredder-/260681275186?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260681273683%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D9111415703535022763#ht_2609wt_905 > Let me know if you have any problems with that link. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson "David C." 05/12/2011 21:13 To eric at megageek.com cc shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws So the name of the company is.....???? eric at megageek.com wrote: > His company makes the industrial tools to make medical supplies and such. > Think of the company that makes the machines that puts the pills in the > bottles or packages needles and scalpels. From ronnie.day at gmail.com Thu May 12 20:41:05 2011 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 21:41:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mitre Saws In-Reply-To: <4DCC89FC.6000106@frontier.com> References: <4DCC89FC.6000106@frontier.com> Message-ID: We were at Home Depot earlier and I noticed that they had a pretty nice looking Ryobi 10 inch slider for $200. When we started framing our new place we were dragging the big Ridgid 12 inch to the property every time we went down, then cutting and framing on-site. One day my wife suggested that we pre-cut and label everything we could at our rent house after work during the week. This allowed us to just do the framing on-site. It saved a LOT of time. We bought a Ryobi 10 inch compound on a HD sale ($80, IIRC) and used it on site to cut the upper cripples and such. Milling variations will trip you up if you're not careful. FWIW, Ron From d_kroninger at hotmail.com Sat May 14 19:42:33 2011 From: d_kroninger at hotmail.com (Dan Kroninger) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 20:42:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] (no subject) Message-ID: Make a right decision! Click this link!.. http://web9.p15137332.pureserver.info/friends_links.php?ppage=07pa4 From d_kroninger at hotmail.com Sat May 14 20:14:44 2011 From: d_kroninger at hotmail.com (Dan Kroninger) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 21:14:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] hacked email Message-ID: Hey everyone, looks like my email was hacked. Don't open anything from me that looks weird. Sorry for any inconvenience Dan From eric at megageek.com Sun May 15 15:22:06 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 17:22:06 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires Message-ID: OK, Does anyone have any hints for cutting tires? I want to cut the tread of an old tire to make some pads for my backhoe's outriggers. I don't need to cut the beard (which I know is a bear) but just the treat face of the tire. Thanks in advance. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sun May 15 16:18:48 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 15:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <550128.3597.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Eric, How about a Sawzall? With the right blade, I haven't found anything mine would not cut: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&sugexp=gsih&xhr=t&q=sawzall&cp=0&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS420US420&nord=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&ion=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=482290662679624928&sa=X&ei=2VDQTcOFLY26sAOjqZW4Cw&sqi=2&ved=0CFEQ8wIwAg&biw=1280&bih=685# best, doug ____________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 ________________________________ From: "eric at megageek.com" To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 2:22:06 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires OK, Does anyone have any hints for cutting tires? I want to cut the tread of an old tire to make some pads for my backhoe's outriggers. I don't need to cut the beard (which I know is a bear) but just the treat face of the tire. Thanks in advance. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun May 15 17:37:18 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 16:37:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires In-Reply-To: <550128.3597.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <550128.3597.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <127301cc1359$07b9b590$0301a8c0@randall> > How about a Sawzall? With the right blade, I haven't found > anything mine would not cut: Maybe I didn't have the right blade, but cutting a tire was a definite chore, and I ruined several blades. If I was going to do that again, I would probably find a way to clamp a piece of wood on both sides, as otherwise the tire tends to grab the blade and just shake back and forth, instead of cutting. A big hole saw worked better for me. -- Randall From hillman at planet-torque.com Sun May 15 18:16:57 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires In-Reply-To: <550128.3597.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <550128.3597.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 May 2011, old dirtbeard wrote: > How about a Sawzall? With the right blade, I haven't found anything mine would > not cut: I have cut up a set of tires with a Sawzall, but I can't remember what kind of blade I used. You probably want to stay down close to the rim, to minimize the flexing of the sidewall. If I had to do it again, though, I would probably use my angle grinder with a cutting disc. I'm not honestly sure why I didn't do that last time. -- David Hillman From kvacek at ameritech.net Sun May 15 19:19:01 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:19:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires In-Reply-To: References: <550128.3597.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01cc1367$3e0620d0$ba126270$@ameritech.net> A band saw. No chance of the tire reciprocating along with the blade like a sawzall, etc. Karl From marka at maracing.com Mon May 16 07:58:02 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, On Sun, 15 May 2011, eric at megageek.com wrote: > Does anyone have any hints for cutting tires? I want to cut the tread of > an old tire to make some pads for my backhoe's outriggers. > > I don't need to cut the beard (which I know is a bear) but just the treat > face of the tire. I used a sawzall with a metal blade when I had to cut some ancient tires off some rims. Seemed to work pretty well. I also tried a box cutter, which was a huge PITA. Mark From marka at maracing.com Mon May 16 07:59:21 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires In-Reply-To: References: <550128.3597.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Howdy, On Sun, 15 May 2011, David Hillman wrote: > If I had to do it again, though, I would probably use my angle grinder > with a cutting disc. I'm not honestly sure why I didn't do that last time. I forgot, I also did this. It cuts, but its messy as heck. I'd use the sawzall. The holesaw also sounds like a great idea, if that gets you the shape you want. Mark From battmain at yahoo.com Tue May 17 19:25:45 2011 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <156957.8280.qm@web161620.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I've used a large pair of snips. The one I used is larger than this one in the link, but looks similar.... http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/snips/7-inch-straight-pattern-snips-66592.html It cut through the wire and rubber fine. My hands did get a work out though. Cutting closer to the hinge worked better due to leverage. I did not attempt to cut through the bead. Regards, Brian battmain at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "eric at megageek.com" To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Sun, May 15, 2011 5:22:06 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Cutting tires OK, Does anyone have any hints for cutting tires? I want to cut the tread of an old tire to make some pads for my backhoe's outriggers. I don't need to cut the beard (which I know is a bear) but just the treat face of the tire. Thanks in advance. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/battmain at yahoo.com From tputland at charter.net Thu May 19 18:01:41 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] testing Message-ID: <3dd76379.b9ab3.1300ab523a9.Webtop.48@charter.net> is this thing on? getting rather lonely without my shop talk. From tputland at charter.net Thu May 19 18:14:49 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans Message-ID: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Any one out there care to share a set of plans for a small shed I can attempt to build myself? I looked online somewhat and really only found sites that sell plans. (I may have been able to find a freebie site but really don't have the patience to dig and dig and dig until I get lucky.) I am looking for something around 10 or so by 15 or so. In leau of plans, how about a web site that has freeby plans? thanks!! Beers!! Tim (rather poor in WI) From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu May 19 18:36:17 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:36:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] testing In-Reply-To: <3dd76379.b9ab3.1300ab523a9.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <3dd76379.b9ab3.1300ab523a9.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <4DD5B781.3000407@tx.rr.com> I'm here, what did you want to talk about? I bought 500' of co-ax and a compression fitting tool set so I can re-wire the TV cable in my house. OK, to be on topic, I noted in the newspaper today that Sears has a set of gearwrenches on sale for about half price. And Home depot has a few good deals on DeWalt and Makita cordless drills. > is this thing on? > > getting rather lonely without my shop talk. From shop at shariconglobal.com Thu May 19 18:53:08 2011 From: shop at shariconglobal.com (Aric) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:53:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] testing In-Reply-To: <4DD5B781.3000407@tx.rr.com> References: <3dd76379.b9ab3.1300ab523a9.Webtop.48@charter.net> <4DD5B781.3000407@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <8917247E997244B0825C2EEBB5D0323C@Tablet> News here is I needed a small, quiet compressor and picked up a Porter Cable C1010. Much to my surprise it's actually fairly quiet and works pretty nice. I could use a bit more SCFM (using it for a low pressure air blast on a benchtop CNC, ~10psi through a pair of basketball inflation needles), but for general around the house use filling tires/small pneumatic nailers/etc it seems like just the ticket. Oh, and it was only $100 at Home Despot so not even that spendy. > > I'm here, what did you want to talk about? > > I bought 500' of co-ax and a compression fitting tool set so > I can re-wire the TV cable in my house. > > OK, to be on topic, I noted in the newspaper today that Sears > has a set of gearwrenches on sale for about half price. And > Home depot has a few good deals on DeWalt and Makita cordless drills. From fishplate at gmail.com Thu May 19 19:18:56 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:18:56 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Tim wrote: > Any one out there care to share a set of plans for a small shed I can > attempt to build myself? What sort of shed? My first thought is there's nothing complicated about a shed. My next thought is that if you build in multiples of 4, like 8' by 16' or 12' by 12', you'll get about the same square footage, but waste a lot less material. What will you do with your shed? This will determine size, foundation and floor type. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Thu May 19 19:24:08 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:24:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <3BAF07A8C87A41B58D674316024BB80B@EricJRussellPC> Shed construction is fairly simple - especially if you are making it rectangular. I built a 10'X10' shed (zoning here says no building permit needed if under 100 sq ft). I did peruse a few books at the library - they had some plan books. But I built it without drawing any real plans. 2X4 studs 16" OC & T1-11 siding. I gambrelled the roof with 'trussed' rafters using plywood gussets & a collar beam. I drew an end view of the shed's roof in chalk on the garage floor, figured out the angles, cut the 2X4's & glued/nailed the gussets to them using the drawings on the garage floor. Then my son & I lifted them up and sheathed the roof. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 8:14 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans > Any one out there care to share a set of plans for a small shed I can > attempt to build myself? I looked online somewhat and really only found > sites that sell plans. (I may have been able to find a freebie site but > really don't have the patience to dig and dig and dig until I get > lucky.) I am looking for something around 10 or so by 15 or so. > > Tim (rather poor in WI) From doug at dougbraun.com Thu May 19 19:24:47 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:24:47 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: Couple of years ago I decided I wanted an 8x12 garden shed, and I bought a "How to Make a Shed" book, etc. Then I realized I could be a well-made, attractive one for only a bit more than all the materials would cost. The one I chose was made by the Amish in Pennsylvania (who seem to ship them everywhere). The ones sold by Home Depot, etc. were of much lower quality. Doug On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Tim wrote: >> Any one out there care to share a set of plans for a small shed I can >> attempt to build myself? > > What sort of shed? My first thought is there's nothing complicated > about a shed. My next thought is that if you build in multiples of 4, > like 8' by 16' or 12' by 12', you'll get about the same square > footage, but waste a lot less material. > > What will you do with your shed? This will determine size, foundation > and floor type. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Thu May 19 19:26:32 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:26:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <30332C76B46345139C4136F20D0CD32A@EricJRussellPC> ----- Original Message ----- > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. "Corrosions Acres"? Is that the opposite of Green Acres? Final resting place for British Sports Cars? Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From doug at dougbraun.com Thu May 19 19:27:07 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:27:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: BTW, this is similar to what I got: http://www.lancasterbarns.com/acatalog/Quaker_Style__6__Walls_.html Doug On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: > Couple of years ago I decided I wanted an 8x12 garden shed, and I > bought a "How to Make a Shed" book, etc. Then I realized I could be a > well-made, attractive one for only a bit more than all the materials > would cost. The one I chose was made by the Amish in Pennsylvania > (who seem to ship them everywhere). The ones sold by Home Depot, etc. > were of much lower quality. > > Doug From marka at maracing.com Thu May 19 19:36:29 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:36:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: Howdy, You were really close to $1k in materials for an 8x8 shed? I'm currently kicking around building or buying something for my four year old's outdoor toys to keep them under cover / get him used to putting stuff away, etc. I was a little shocked by what people were charging for simple 8x8-ish sheds. Mark On Thu, 19 May 2011, Douglas Braun wrote: > BTW, this is similar to what I got: > http://www.lancasterbarns.com/acatalog/Quaker_Style__6__Walls_.html > > Doug > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: >> Couple of years ago I decided I wanted an 8x12 garden shed, and I >> bought a "How to Make a Shed" book, etc. Then I realized I could be a >> well-made, attractive one for only a bit more than all the materials >> would cost. The one I chose was made by the Amish in Pennsylvania >> (who seem to ship them everywhere). The ones sold by Home Depot, etc. >> were of much lower quality. >> >> Doug > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com From cavanadd at frontier.com Thu May 19 19:40:06 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:40:06 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] testing In-Reply-To: <3dd76379.b9ab3.1300ab523a9.Webtop.48@charter.net> References: <3dd76379.b9ab3.1300ab523a9.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <4DD5C676.5090908@frontier.com> I'm here, too. Local news: I got a C'Man 1/4" and 7/16", and a NAPA 7/16" combination wrenches at the local pawn shop for the grand total of a buck fifty. (They went missing from the set at school.) They also have a Kennedy machinist's chest full of sockets and junk for $69 that I may go back for. We also just got an 8KW solar panel array installed on the shop roof, too. Looking forward to seeing the meter go backwards soon. Tim wrote: > is this thing on? > > getting rather lonely without my shop talk. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From jferguson at bellsouth.net Thu May 19 20:04:48 2011 From: jferguson at bellsouth.net (Jim Ferguson) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 22:04:48 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <4DD5CC40.9010505@bellsouth.net> I just finished a 16' X 30' shed but don't have plans and didn't have a permit. Don't ask--don't tell around here. Basically a pole barn design with truss roof. Metal roofing and siding from surplus at the local lumber yards. From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu May 19 20:08:32 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:08:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <4DD5CD20.9030207@tx.rr.com> The OP didn't really give much information on his requirements. So assuming a 10' x 15' shed, on a slab that he already has, with no fancy finishes inside... I'll try to calculate some quantities and estimate prices off the top of my head: 400 SF of exterior wall sheathing (12 sheets) x $15 = $180 150 SF of roof sheathing (5 sheets) x $10 = $50 50 wall studs x $2 = $100 110 ft of 2x4 for wall plates and heads = $30 260 ft of 2x6 for roof joists = $130 2 windows + 1 door = ??? nails and anchor bolts = ??? 2 squares of shingles = ??? total $490 + ??? > You were really close to $1k in materials for an 8x8 shed? > > I'm currently kicking around building or buying something for my four > year old's outdoor toys to keep them under cover / get him used to > putting stuff away, etc. > > I was a little shocked by what people were charging for simple 8x8-ish > sheds. From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu May 19 20:11:06 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:11:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <4DD5CC40.9010505@bellsouth.net> References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> <4DD5CC40.9010505@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4DD5CDBA.3040806@tx.rr.com> That's a good point- the OP could potentially save some money by buying scrap materials, surplus materials, etc. Maybe check around his area to find places that sell surplus, ask on craiglist, etc. > I just finished a 16' X 30' shed but don't have plans and didn't have > a permit. Don't ask--don't tell around here. Basically a pole barn > design with truss roof. Metal roofing and siding from surplus at the > local lumber yards. From tputland at charter.net Fri May 20 04:54:46 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 06:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans Message-ID: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> Yea, more details & info would have helped as, for the most part, I didn't get any answers I could use. So.... I have just about all the materials I might need from salvaging the 2x4s from dumpsters (mostly here outside the building I work in) when office spaces were renovated and the walls were just torn down and all the wood tossed. I have both plywood and sheets of OSB either given to me (plywood) or liberated from the materials left on my property by the roofers. I also have a rool of roofing paper left by the previous owner of my house. All I will really need to buy is nails or screws, glue, and shingles. Possible siding material if I go that route. Although I have several gallons of paint bought on the cheap in the 'mistake' paint section at local hardware/home improvement stores. I think I even have a window I could use if I wanted to go that route. The shed will be used to free up space in the garage so I have more room to do the important stuff: working on the Datsuns. I would store the mower, snow blower, yard tools, chicken wire rolls, tomatoe cages, and what not else for outside work. I would think it would not have to be much bigger than 10x10 or 10x15 or so. I have absolutely NO design skills. I need (and read) instructions, plans, etc. Hence my want for a set of cheap (preferrably free) plans. I didn't think about the library. I suppose I could use that as a fall back option. So, any opinions on cheap or free plans? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Has any one seen Jeff Spicoli? Tim On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Tim wrote: > Any one out there care to share a set of plans for a small shed I can > attempt to build myself? I looked online somewhat and really only > found sites that sell plans. (I may have been able to find a freebie > site but really don't have the patience to dig and dig and dig until I > get lucky.) I am looking for something around 10 or so by 15 or so. > > In leau of plans, how about a web site that has freeby plans? > > thanks!! > > Beers!! > > Tim (rather poor in WI) > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From jblair1948 at cox.net Fri May 20 05:59:46 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:59:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <3b3b7093.b9ce6.1300ac12ba8.Webtop.48@charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110520075230.04dc8ec8@cox.net> At 09:36 PM 5/19/2011, Mark Andy wrote: >You were really close to $1k in materials for an 8x8 shed? >I'm currently kicking around building or buying something for my four year old's >outdoor toys to keep them under cover / get him used to putting stuff away, >etc. >I was a little shocked by what people were charging for simple 8x8-ish sheds. Many many years ago, I wanted to put up a shelf in my garage. Unfrotunately, a hurricane had just taken out a big section of Flordia. I couldn't believe the increase in the price of 2x4s and 1/2" plywood. So concidering what's been happening in this country lately, it may be a lot cheaper, quicker and easier to get on of the vinyl sheds from Costco, BJ, Sams, or even HomeDepot/Lowes. I build a 10'w x 12'L vinyl shed from lowes about 3 years ago for about $1800, including cinderblock for the floor and foundation. http://www.team.net/www/morgan/other/shed/shed.html I've seen some really nice sheds at Costco pretty cheap $600 to $800. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Fri May 20 06:37:58 2011 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 08:37:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> Message-ID: I inherited one of those Amish sheds from the PO of my house, but I've done this search before for prior houses. A few links of links to various free plans on the Internet: Founds this: http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/resources/index.php?cat=465 Lots of shed designs. http://www.thingstobuild.com/plan_links_sheds.html Some links cribbed from this site: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=691281 http://www.shedsandstoragebuildings.com/gardenshed.html This link has a ton of plans, but they are all in metric. http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/ExtPubs/Plans/6284.pdf I'm interested in hearing what you end-up going with. - Ian From shiples at comcast.net Fri May 20 07:00:27 2011 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 06:00:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20110520052131.038b7218@mail.comcast.net> At 06:54 AM 5/20/2011 -0400, Tim wrote: >Yea, more details & info would have helped as, for the most part, I didn't >get any answers I could use. So.... > >I have just about all the materials I might need from salvaging the 2x4s >from dumpsters (mostly here outside the building I work in) when office >spaces were renovated and the walls were just torn down and all the wood >tossed. I have both plywood and sheets of OSB either given to me (plywood) >or liberated from the materials left on my property by the roofers. I also >have a rool of roofing paper left by the previous owner of my house. All I >will really need to buy is nails or screws, glue, and shingles. Possible >siding material if I go that route. Although I have several gallons of >paint bought on the cheap in the 'mistake' paint section at local >hardware/home improvement stores. I think I even have a window I could use >if I wanted to go that route. > >The shed will be used to free up space in the garage so I have more room >to do the important stuff: working on the Datsuns. I would store the >mower, snow blower, yard tools, chicken wire rolls, tomatoe cages, and >what not else for outside work. I would think it would not have to be much >bigger than 10x10 or 10x15 or so. > >I have absolutely NO design skills. I need (and read) instructions, plans, >etc. Hence my want for a set of cheap (preferrably free) plans. I didn't >think about the library. I suppose I could use that as a fall back option. > >So, any opinions on cheap or free plans? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? >Has any one seen Jeff Spicoli? If you're building from salvaged materials using 2x4s, this is a typical framing diagram. http://bit.ly/ji3u2E You are going to need 4 walls, framed on the ground, sheathed on the ground, then tilted up. Eric J Russell's post described how to make a home made roof truss. We haven't discussed floors or foundations. If you know how to frame, then an 8 foot wall, 10 feet long, built of 2x4s, 16 inches on center is easy. (Easy for you, I'm old and slow) Using the diagram, you build 4 walls and tilt em up. The corner detail isn't shown, go to the library to see that detail. I suspect you haven't framed before and you need to learn how to layout and frame a wall. Get to the library or even better, see if someone will allow you to watch how it's done. Plans won't teach you the building trades, once you know the basics of framing, you won't need plans. (Though I bet you haven't salvaged enough materials yet) Steve From tputland at charter.net Fri May 20 07:22:59 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 09:22:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans Message-ID: <4ee89d62.b03c2.1300d92c2eb.Webtop.45@charter.net> Thanks for the input. I have a basic knowledge of framing as I have watched it being done and torn down enough walls to have seen up close how it is supossed to be done (and how it shouldn't be done!). I have banged some nails here and there over the year so on the basics I should be ok. I would bet that I have more than enough 2x4s salvaged for a small shed. I should have close to 500 board feet saved up as some day I hope to reframe (refinish) my basement once I have drain tile put in. (I have been doing the wood salvage thing for several years and the offices downstairs from us have been redone twice in the last year and a half.) Thanks again. Tim On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Steve Shipley wrote: > At 06:54 AM 5/20/2011 -0400, Tim wrote: >> Yea, more details & info would have helped as, for the most part, I >> didn't get any answers I could use. So.... >> >> I have just about all the materials I might need from salvaging the >> 2x4s from dumpsters (mostly here outside the building I work in) when >> office spaces were renovated and the walls were just torn down and >> all the wood tossed. I have both plywood and sheets of OSB either >> given to me (plywood) or liberated from the materials left on my >> property by the roofers. I also have a rool of roofing paper left by >> the previous owner of my house. All I will really need to buy is >> nails or screws, glue, and shingles. Possible siding material if I go >> that route. Although I have several gallons of paint bought on the >> cheap in the 'mistake' paint section at local hardware/home >> improvement stores. I think I even have a window I could use if I >> wanted to go that route. >> >> The shed will be used to free up space in the garage so I have more >> room to do the important stuff: working on the Datsuns. I would store >> the mower, snow blower, yard tools, chicken wire rolls, tomatoe >> cages, and what not else for outside work. I would think it would not >> have to be much bigger than 10x10 or 10x15 or so. >> >> I have absolutely NO design skills. I need (and read) instructions, >> plans, etc. Hence my want for a set of cheap (preferrably free) >> plans. I didn't think about the library. I suppose I could use that >> as a fall back option. >> >> So, any opinions on cheap or free plans? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? >> Bueller? Has any one seen Jeff Spicoli? > > If you're building from salvaged materials using 2x4s, this is a > typical framing diagram. > http://bit.ly/ji3u2E > You are going to need 4 walls, framed on the ground, sheathed on the > ground, then tilted up. > Eric J Russell's post described how to make a home made roof truss. > We haven't discussed floors or foundations. > > If you know how to frame, then an 8 foot wall, 10 feet long, built of > 2x4s, 16 inches on center is easy. > (Easy for you, I'm old and slow) Using the diagram, you build 4 walls > and tilt em up. The corner > detail isn't shown, go to the library to see that detail. > > I suspect you haven't framed before and you need to learn how to > layout and frame a wall. > Get to the library or even better, see if someone will allow you to > watch how it's done. > Plans won't teach you the building trades, once you know the basics of > framing, you won't > need plans. (Though I bet you haven't salvaged enough materials yet) > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From arvidj at visi.com Fri May 20 09:16:55 2011 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:16:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? In-Reply-To: <4ee89d62.b03c2.1300d92c2eb.Webtop.45@charter.net> References: <4ee89d62.b03c2.1300d92c2eb.Webtop.45@charter.net> Message-ID: <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> Ok, shop content ... I have a really slow leak somewhere in the plumbing on my compressor. I'd like to make a mixture of soap and glycerin to spray on the fittings but have not been able to find a source for the glycerin. Walgreens and CVS list it on their websites but do not have pure glycerin in the stores. Does anyone have any suggestions on where else I might look for this great bubble making liquid? Thanks, Arvid From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri May 20 09:29:46 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:29:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? In-Reply-To: <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> References: <4ee89d62.b03c2.1300d92c2eb.Webtop.45@charter.net> <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> Message-ID: <4DD688EA.1030400@comcast.net> On 5/20/2011 11:16 AM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote: > Ok, shop content ... > > I have a really slow leak somewhere in the plumbing on my compressor. > I'd like to make a mixture of soap and glycerin to spray on the > fittings but have not been able to find a source for the glycerin. > Walgreens and CVS list it on their websites but do not have pure > glycerin in the stores. Does anyone have any suggestions on where else > I might look for this great bubble making liquid? Kids bubble soap works fine and can be had at any dollar store. > > Thanks, > Arvid _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri May 20 09:32:09 2011 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:32:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? In-Reply-To: <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> References: <4ee89d62.b03c2.1300d92c2eb.Webtop.45@charter.net> <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> Message-ID: <4DD68979.4070903@hornesystemstx.com> Arvid, How about trying a bottle of kid's bubbles? The kids stuff is thinner, but it should work. Our propane distributor used to make his own by shaving a bar of Ivory soap into a squirt bottle, then adding water. It formed a saturated solution of soap that worked fine. Big brother later declared that the solution needed to be traceable in case of an explosion, so he had to switch to a purchased product. You might check with a propane distributor or your local gas company to see if you can get a small quantity of what they use. I suspect it is available at big box stores, or plumbing supply stores. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Arvid Jedlicka, On 5/20/2011 10:16 AM: > Ok, shop content ... > > I have a really slow leak somewhere in the plumbing on my compressor. > I'd like to make a mixture of soap and glycerin to spray on the > fittings but have not been able to find a source for the glycerin. > Walgreens and CVS list it on their websites but do not have pure > glycerin in the stores. Does anyone have any suggestions on where else > I might look for this great bubble making liquid? > > Thanks, > Arvid _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From jdinnis at gmail.com Fri May 20 09:51:51 2011 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:51:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? In-Reply-To: <4DD68979.4070903@hornesystemstx.com> References: <4ee89d62.b03c2.1300d92c2eb.Webtop.45@charter.net> <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> <4DD68979.4070903@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: I bought the "professional" leak check liquid, only because I needed to use it outdoors in the winter. Suff works great, well below 20 degrees F. I got it at the local Home Despot in the plumbing supplies section. On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > Arvid, > > How about trying a bottle of kid's bubbles? The kids stuff is thinner, but > it should work. Our propane distributor used to make his own by shaving a > bar of Ivory soap into a squirt bottle, then adding water. It formed a > saturated solution of soap that worked fine. Big brother later declared that > the solution needed to be traceable in case of an explosion, so he had to > switch to a purchased product. > > You might check with a propane distributor or your local gas company to see > if you can get a small quantity of what they use. I suspect it is available > at big box stores, or plumbing supply stores. > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake Arvid Jedlicka, On 5/20/2011 10:16 AM: > >> Ok, shop content ... >> >> I have a really slow leak somewhere in the plumbing on my compressor. I'd >> like to make a mixture of soap and glycerin to spray on the fittings but >> have not been able to find a source for the glycerin. Walgreens and CVS list >> it on their websites but do not have pure glycerin in the stores. Does >> anyone have any suggestions on where else I might look for this great bubble >> making liquid? >> >> Thanks, >> Arvid _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com >> >> >> >> > -- > Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems > (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 > Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 > www.hornesystemstx.com > -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From mdporter at dfn.com Fri May 20 10:00:08 2011 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:00:08 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? In-Reply-To: <4DD68979.4070903@hornesystemstx.com> References: <4ee89d62.b03c2.1300d92c2eb.Webtop.45@charter.net> <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> <4DD68979.4070903@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <4DD69008.8020700@dfn.com> On 5/20/2011 9:32 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > Arvid, > > How about trying a bottle of kid's bubbles? The kids stuff is thinner, > but it should work. Our propane distributor used to make his own by > shaving a bar of Ivory soap into a squirt bottle, then adding water. > It formed a saturated solution of soap that worked fine. Big brother > later declared that the solution needed to be traceable in case of an > explosion, so he had to switch to a purchased product. > > You might check with a propane distributor or your local gas company > to see if you can get a small quantity of what they use. I suspect it > is available at big box stores, or plumbing supply stores. > The stuff we used to check for natural gas leaks was called "Snoop," manufactured by Swagelok, p/n MS-SNOOP-8OZ. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From gzhookoff at e2m.com Fri May 20 10:07:03 2011 From: gzhookoff at e2m.com (George Zhookoff) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:07:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? Message-ID: <56BC26A92D7B4244ACBF6A3182D978950BA14650@CARVER.norcross.local> Home Depot has super duper leak check blue bubble juice. George ----- Original Message ----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net To: pat at hornesystemstx.com Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Fri May 20 12:00:08 2011 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? On 5/20/2011 9:32 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > Arvid, > > How about trying a bottle of kid's bubbles? The kids stuff is thinner, > but it should work. Our propane distributor used to make his own by > shaving a bar of Ivory soap into a squirt bottle, then adding water. > It formed a saturated solution of soap that worked fine. Big brother > later declared that the solution needed to be traceable in case of an > explosion, so he had to switch to a purchased product. > > You might check with a propane distributor or your local gas company > to see if you can get a small quantity of what they use. I suspect it > is available at big box stores, or plumbing supply stores. > The stuff we used to check for natural gas leaks was called "Snoop," manufactured by Swagelok, p/n MS-SNOOP-8OZ. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gzhookoff at e2m.com From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Fri May 20 10:12:12 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:12:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110520161212.0DA86.40538.root@cdptpa-web12-z02> These links illustrate how our modern internet works. Very few sites have real content, they just link to each other. These links actually have meaningful information in them: http://www.buildeazy.com/shed_1.html (but it indicates too many horizontal pieces in the walls, you don't need them if you are using plywood for the exterior) http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to-plans/sheds/1275876 http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to-plans/sheds/1276536 Basically what you do is to build walls with vertical 2x4's at 16" on center, and a horizontal 2x4 at the top and the bottom. Make the height what you want but it is best if it coordinates with the 8' length of plywood. You can build sloping framing for the roof, either little trusses or just straight pieces of 2x6 or 2x8. In this case you would build one side wall taller than the opposite side wall so that the roof will slope. Nail on some plywood and roofing and you are in business. Oh and a door too. ---- shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org wrote: > I inherited one of those Amish sheds from the PO of my house, but I've done > this search before for prior houses. > > > > A few links of links to various free plans on the Internet: > > > > Founds this: http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/resources/index.php?cat=465 > > Lots of shed designs. > > > > http://www.thingstobuild.com/plan_links_sheds.html > > > > > > Some links cribbed from this site: > http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=691281 > > > > http://www.shedsandstoragebuildings.com/gardenshed.html > > > > This link has a ton of plans, but they are all in metric. > > http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/ExtPubs/Plans/6284.pdf > > > > I'm interested in hearing what you end-up going with. > > > > - Ian > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjshov8 at tx.rr.com From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri May 20 11:50:33 2011 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 12:50:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <20110520161212.0DA86.40538.root@cdptpa-web12-z02> References: , <20110520161212.0DA86.40538.root@cdptpa-web12-z02> Message-ID: Lowes, Menards or HD might have free or low cost plans. Rich White Central, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF###L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri May 20 16:13:03 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:13:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? In-Reply-To: <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> References: <4ee89d62.b03c2.1300d92c2eb.Webtop.45@charter.net> <67181C4D802C4C0AA10ADF2A47F77127@HP62011> Message-ID: On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote: > Ok, shop content ... > > I have a really slow leak somewhere in the plumbing on my compressor. I'd > like to make a mixture of soap and glycerin to spray on the fittings but > have not been able to find a source for the glycerin. Walgreens and CVS list > it on their websites but do not have pure glycerin in the stores. Does > anyone have any suggestions on where else I might look for this great bubble > making liquid? > Did you ask the pharmacist? I've bought some from a drug storei n the last couple years. But a real leak solution is far superior. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tputland at charter.net Fri May 20 17:06:53 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Where to get glycerin? Message-ID: <13469ff1.c60ac.1300fa95698.Webtop.47@charter.net> You could always go buy the album by Bush titled "Sixteen Stone". It has the song Glycerine on it. Oh wait, SORRY. You said glycerin....not Glycerine. my bad..... Tim On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Pat Horne wrote: > Arvid, > > How about trying a bottle of kid's bubbles? The kids stuff is thinner, > but it should work. Our propane distributor used to make his own by > shaving a bar of Ivory soap into a squirt bottle, then adding water. > It formed a saturated solution of soap that worked fine. Big brother > later declared that the solution needed to be traceable in case of an > explosion, so he had to switch to a purchased product. > > You might check with a propane distributor or your local gas company > to see if you can get a small quantity of what they use. I suspect it > is available at big box stores, or plumbing supply stores. > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake Arvid Jedlicka, On 5/20/2011 10:16 AM: >> Ok, shop content ... >> >> I have a really slow leak somewhere in the plumbing on my compressor. >> I'd like to make a mixture of soap and glycerin to spray on the >> fittings but have not been able to find a source for the glycerin. >> Walgreens and CVS list it on their websites but do not have pure >> glycerin in the stores. Does anyone have any suggestions on where >> else I might look for this great bubble making liquid? >> >> Thanks, >> Arvid _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com >> >> >> > > -- > Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems > (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 > Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 > www.hornesystemstx.com > -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From marka at maracing.com Fri May 20 19:07:37 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> Message-ID: Howdy, So I stopped at Lowes and glanced at sheds. I can buy a metal 10x8 shed for $300. Anything non-metal was more like $1k. Is there some reason I don't want the metal shed? Mark From jibjib at att.net Fri May 20 19:23:45 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:23:45 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> Message-ID: <978D5280795949989B1677E77E4A1E5C@EntCent> In a few years you would know why. They are made out of sheet steel with thin cheap paint and will rust and rot out relatively quickly. A nice wood shed, if cared for, will last many years. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Andy Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 6:08 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans Howdy, So I stopped at Lowes and glanced at sheds. I can buy a metal 10x8 shed for $300. Anything non-metal was more like $1k. Is there some reason I don't want the metal shed? Mark _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From hillman at planet-torque.com Fri May 20 19:35:05 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 May 2011, Mark Andy wrote: > So I stopped at Lowes and glanced at sheds. I can buy a metal 10x8 shed for > $300. Anything non-metal was more like $1k. > > Is there some reason I don't want the metal shed? Rust. Also, it's really easy to get dents in the walls, which is kind of ugly. I dented in the entire back wall of my rusty metal shed... or more specifically, a pile of patio blocks did it. If anyone wants a rusty, dented metal shed, you can have mine for free! Hell, I might pay you to take it away. -- David Hillman From mark at bradakis.com Fri May 20 19:41:09 2011 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:41:09 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> Message-ID: <4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com> > Is there some reason I don't want the metal shed? They are very flimsy, usually made with cheap steel and cheap paint. You can spend more on a decent platform for it than the shed itself. They are cheap. If yoo don't need it to last past saturday night, it will be fine. mjb. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri May 20 20:13:06 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 22:13:06 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20110520052131.038b7218@mail.comcast.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20110520052131.038b7218@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Although not specifically about sheds, I borrowed the following book from the local library often enough that I decided to buy my own copy. http://www.amazon.com/Do---Yourself-Housebuilding-Complete-Handbook/dp/0806904240/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305943805&sr=1-5 Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Shipley" To: Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans >>I have absolutely NO design skills. I need (and read) instructions, plans, >>etc. Hence my want for a set of cheap (preferrably free) plans. I didn't >>think about the library. I suppose I could use that as a fall back option. From bolin at mwt.net Fri May 20 20:53:03 2011 From: bolin at mwt.net (Bob Jeffers) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:53:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com> References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> <4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> I built a metal shed 50 X 100 in 1979. It is still standing and it looks good. Where do you come up with they are Cheap and flimsy? If you put up quality in a steel building it will out last a wooden one seven ways to Sunday. JMO. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J Bradakis" To: Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans >> Is there some reason I don't want the metal shed? > They are very flimsy, usually made with cheap steel and cheap > paint. You can spend more on a decent platform for it > than the shed itself. > > They are cheap. If yoo don't need it to last past saturday > night, it will be fine. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bolin at mwt.net From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri May 20 21:03:06 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 22:03:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> <4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com> <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> Message-ID: On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:53 PM, Bob Jeffers wrote: > I built a metal shed 50 X 100 in 1979. It is still standing and it looks > good. Where do you come up with they are Cheap and flimsy? If you put up > quality in a steel building it will out last a wooden one seven ways to > Sunday. JMO. Sure, but your sort of building isn't on offer at the Borg. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Fri May 20 21:51:10 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 20:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> <4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com> <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> Message-ID: <785206.51245.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I had a local firm come to the house and build an 8'x8' aluminum sided, aluminum gable roof, wood framed shed onsite. It has mostly 2"x2" studding (some 2"x4"), but I put up thick peg board interior "walls" and added lighting and shelves. It is a very solid structure now. It cost less than $1K completed, has a window, has stainless steel hinges and hardware and should last a very long time (won't rust, won't rot, etc.). I had it built on an asphalt parking area so I had no foundation costs, but I think it was a great deal. To show you how screwed up building codes are here in Los Angeles County (or maybe just in Palos Verdes), I initially had a contractor come out and give me an estimate for what it would cost to build a wood shed (with permits, to code, etc.), and he quoted me $24K. best, doug ____________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 ________________________________ From: David Scheidt To: Bob Jeffers Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 8:03:06 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 9:53 PM, Bob Jeffers wrote: > I built a metal shed 50 X 100 in 1979. It is still standing and it looks > good. Where do you come up with they are Cheap and flimsy? If you put up > quality in a steel building it will out last a wooden one seven ways to > Sunday. JMO. Sure, but your sort of building isn't on offer at the Borg. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Fri May 20 22:41:42 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:41:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <978D5280795949989B1677E77E4A1E5C@EntCent> References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> <978D5280795949989B1677E77E4A1E5C@EntCent> Message-ID: <06f101cc1771$61efcab0$0301a8c0@randall> > In a few years you would know why. Well, maybe more than a few. I've got a cheap metal shed that was put up around 2000, and it was holding up quite well until the people I paid to move it managed to drop it into an empty swimming pool. Still basically no rust, the powder coat is still holding up, but the fall did kind of mangle it until the side panels don't fit the corner posts any more. If it hadn't been dropped, I'm convinced the shed would have outlasted the foundation (which was just pressure treated 2x4 and painted ACX plywood). -- Randall From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat May 21 06:22:59 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 08:22:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <978D5280795949989B1677E77E4A1E5C@EntCent> References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> <978D5280795949989B1677E77E4A1E5C@EntCent> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110521081232.04dab4c8@cox.net> Mark wrote: "So I stopped at Lowes and glanced at sheds. I can buy a metal 10x8 shed for $300. Anything non-metal was more like $1k. Is there some reason I don't want the metal shed?" Mark, I don't really understand why everyone is bad mouthing the metal erector set sheds. About 15 yrs ago, myself and 2 other neighbors put up 3 of them (1 each). Mine and one other one were about 8 X 10 and cost $300ish. They both lasted 10 yrs, longer if we had of painted them. The other was bigger and the owen has repainted it. His is still up. So for $30 per year, where are you going to get that kind of storage. At the time, I didn't have the money for a $1K plus shed. So I think it was a fantastic investment. About 3 years ago, I tore it down and replaced it with a 10'w X 12'l vinyl shed, but this one cost me about $1.8K substantially more, and I'll never get it's cost down to $30 / yr. See Install Vinyl Shed I personally don't really like the stick built sheds as I've seen the walls rott and the roof need replacing. Just too much maintenance, longer and more difficult to build. And not any cheaper than something like the vinyl shed. Their real advantage is that you can build them to any size and shape you want! So yes you can really make them into a garage. The doors on most sheds are big enough to allow you to get a car inside. :) John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat May 21 06:29:25 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 08:29:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net> <4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com> <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110521082727.04d3b5c8@cox.net> At 10:53 PM 5/20/2011, Bob Jeffers wrote: >I built a metal shed 50 X 100 in 1979. It is still standing and it looks good. >Where do you come up with they are Cheap and flimsy? If you put up quality in >a steel building it will out last a wooden one seven ways to Sunday. JMO. Bob, I think you are talking apples and oranges, or more specifically Arrow (cheap -$300 -flimsy shed) and Butler building (more expensive, and stronger - than the Arrow sheds). John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From jibjib at att.net Sat May 21 08:07:18 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:07:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net><4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com> <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> Message-ID: Yes, a quality metal building will last, but a $300 shed, even powder coated will start to fail faster than a wood building. Any scratch, or non-coated edge, if not repaired well will rust quickly. There are simply too many failure points I finally built a wooden structure on a solid concrete block foundation, pressure treated floor/base structure, roofed with three tab, and it's a permanent structure. I would have poured a foundation but legally, this was a temporary storage shed. A lot will depend on where you are, as some environments are wetter than others, but I was never happy with the look or durability of an inexpensive metal shed, whereas the stick built wooden ones can blend in, add value to the property and are durable. Just my experience. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Jeffers Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 7:53 PM To: Mark J Bradakis; shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans I built a metal shed 50 X 100 in 1979. It is still standing and it looks good. Where do you come up with they are Cheap and flimsy? If you put up quality in a steel building it will out last a wooden one seven ways to Sunday. JMO. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J Bradakis" To: Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans >> Is there some reason I don't want the metal shed? > They are very flimsy, usually made with cheap steel and cheap > paint. You can spend more on a decent platform for it > than the shed itself. > > They are cheap. If yoo don't need it to last past saturday > night, it will be fine. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bolin at mwt.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From jem at milleredp.com Sat May 21 08:19:07 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:19:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net><4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com> <1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> Message-ID: <4DD7C9DB.10608@milleredp.com> > I finally built a wooden structure on a solid concrete block foundation, > pressure treated floor/base structure, roofed with three tab, and it's a > permanent structure. I would have poured a foundation but legally, this was > a temporary storage shed. In California, by law, up to 10x10 there are no code requirements. Planning folks can stick their nose in if they're going to be above the fence line or otherwise visible, I think, but there's no building code requirements. I've got a 10x20 storage building on a slab, the slab was the biggest $ in the project. The building dept wasn't a problem (he asked if I wouldn't rather put up 2 10x10 buildings with a walkway between them, but the cost of forming two slabs, finishing two roofs, extra walls, etc. was going to be more than the permit). Planning was, as always, a bit of a pain, but it's done now. John. From jibjib at att.net Sat May 21 08:38:04 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 07:38:04 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans In-Reply-To: <4DD7C9DB.10608@milleredp.com> References: <427bc4f5.aee2c.1300d0b0e4a.Webtop.45@charter.net><4DD71835.7010800@bradakis.com><1A05CD075BC64110A55B4EDD0E7A5433@BobPC> <4DD7C9DB.10608@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <3BD04668E9A441EEBFB6486B64175E07@EntCent> > Planning was, as always, a bit of a pain, but it's done now. John, I agree 100%. I replaced a 5x8 metal shed with a 12x16 wooden one. It was considered maintenance by my town in NJ, as I was replacing one temporary building with another temporary building. This allowed me to keep it one foot from the property line, instead of having to build it "the height of the shed" away from the edge of the property line; 10 feet in this case. A slab would have made it permanent and subject to all the local codes, including the property line setback, hence my concrete block foundation. I did have to file plans to get my permit, but there was no inspection, at least back then. With every installation, local codes will dictate what you can or want to do. As we both discovered, researching it well first will allow you to maximize your return on investment. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Miller Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 7:19 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] storage shed plans > I finally built a wooden structure on a solid concrete block foundation, > pressure treated floor/base structure, roofed with three tab, and it's a > permanent structure. I would have poured a foundation but legally, this was > a temporary storage shed. In California, by law, up to 10x10 there are no code requirements. Planning folks can stick their nose in if they're going to be above the fence line or otherwise visible, I think, but there's no building code requirements. I've got a 10x20 storage building on a slab, the slab was the biggest $ in the project. The building dept wasn't a problem (he asked if I wouldn't rather put up 2 10x10 buildings with a walkway between them, but the cost of forming two slabs, finishing two roofs, extra walls, etc. was going to be more than the permit). Planning was, as always, a bit of a pain, but it's done now. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Sat May 21 22:41:48 2011 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 21:41:48 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 5, Issue 156 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8E4E178B7A8E4871A55ADBB2DAF6BCE4@delld520> <<>> Not exactly what they say in Sonoma County, but close. Up to 120 sqft with no permits, but they must be no closer than 30 feet to another unpermitted or permitted building. From fishplate at gmail.com Sun May 22 08:26:35 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 10:26:35 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor Message-ID: Corrosion Acres was originally named for the acres of rusting British cars...now I can add air compressors to the list... I always wondered how long my 40-year-old Craftsman air compressor tank would last, and how destructively catastrophic would the failure be? Turns out to be 40 years, and not very. I went out to the shop this morning to inflate the bicycle tires...flipped on the compressor and after it shut off, I heard a loud hissing. Wondering which of my poor fittings came loose, I crawled under the bench and discovered a pool of rusty water directly under the tank. So, I need a new compressor. I'd like to get a two-stage, with enough CFM to run a sandblaster intermittently. Any brand/model suggestions? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. - Now with extra corrosion! From gsteve at hammatt.com Sun May 22 08:57:09 2011 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 07:57:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ACA4DDE296944168E1BB85B4BFC1E4A@DesktopPC> I'll never forget when my wife said, "let's go get you an air compressor for your birthday"! Boy, was I excited.... I'd been thinking of getting one for the past few months after putting up our new 2k sq ft shop/garage. She wanted to go with me to get her present for me. So we took a trip to Grainger's local store and I selected (I'd already had it scoped out) a 6' tall, two stage (last of the cast iron cylinder version) 5hp 220V air compressor. What was funny was that she thought it was an air compressor like she'd seen in the box stores, as she put it..."like the size of a bread box". I smiled all the way home and she then understood why we took the truck to pick up her present for me. First thing I did was fit an automatic water drain to drain the tank daily. Hope you find the one you need, like most men's tools, they never can be too big. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Scarbrough Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 7:26 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor Corrosion Acres was originally named for the acres of rusting British cars...now I can add air compressors to the list... I always wondered how long my 40-year-old Craftsman air compressor tank would last, and how destructively catastrophic would the failure be? Turns out to be 40 years, and not very. I went out to the shop this morning to inflate the bicycle tires...flipped on the compressor and after it shut off, I heard a loud hissing. Wondering which of my poor fittings came loose, I crawled under the bench and discovered a pool of rusty water directly under the tank. So, I need a new compressor. I'd like to get a two-stage, with enough CFM to run a sandblaster intermittently. Any brand/model suggestions? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. - Now with extra corrosion! _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve at hammatt.com From Paul at Parkanzky.com Sun May 22 09:05:01 2011 From: Paul at Parkanzky.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 11:05:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] John Deere LX188 Carb Removal Message-ID: All, I have a ~15-20 year old John Deere LX188 lawn tractor with a 17 HP Kawasaki twin-cylinder water-cooled engine. I used to have occasional problems with surging. I've since (somewhat inadvertently) run a couple of tanks of rusty fuel through it and now it won't run under load. I've replaced the fuel filter, but I'm fairly certain that I've also plugged jets in the carb. I bought a carb rebuild kit thinking that I'd tackle it myself. Does anybody have any experience pulling the carb from one of these? I tried Googling for a tutorial and couldn't find one. I pulled the 'hood' off the mower and poked around, but it looks like to get the carb off I have to remove the intake. To remove the intake, I have to remove the radiator. To remove the radiator, I have to remove the entire top-end of the motor. Etc. If this is true, then it might be a job for the pros down at the John Deere $tealer$hip. If it's not as bad as it looks at first glance then I'll keep removing nuts and bolts. I need to get moving on this, as our hilly, 3/4 acre lot is more than I want to have to push-mow for the rest of the summer with a 22" trimming mower. Obligatory shop content: This 'project' is occupying a bay of my garage and forcing me to park a car outside until it's taken care of. Thanks, -Paul From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun May 22 09:16:39 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:16:39 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <089001cc1893$40501130$0301a8c0@randall> > So, I need a new compressor. I'd like to get a two-stage, with > enough CFM to run a sandblaster intermittently. Any brand/model > suggestions? It survived 40 years of neglect, and now you want to switch brands ? I got tired of never having enough air, so I picked up a used 80 gallon "7.5 hp" Craftsman (made by Ingersoll-Rand) from Craigslist for $500 (including 50' of hose) and so far I'm pretty happy with it. But I do keep the tank drained, even though I haven't yet hooked up the automatic drain valve. BTW, the leak turned out to be a cracked fitting at the drain valve. Guess it needs more support. -- Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun May 22 09:54:27 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 10:54:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > Corrosion Acres was originally named for the acres of rusting British > cars...now I can add air compressors to the list... > > I always wondered how long my 40-year-old Craftsman air compressor > tank would last, and how destructively catastrophic would the failure > be? B Turns out to be 40 years, and not very. > > I went out to the shop this morning to inflate the bicycle > tires...flipped on the compressor and after it shut off, I heard a > loud hissing. B Wondering which of my poor fittings came loose, I > crawled under the bench and discovered a pool of rusty water directly > under the tank. > > So, I need a new compressor. B I'd like to get a two-stage, with > enough CFM to run a sandblaster intermittently. B Any brand/model > suggestions? \\> I won't make a suggestion about a new compressor, because things change a lot, and I don't pay attention. But, if you've got the space, and have generally been happy with the current compressor, consider keeping it, alog with the new one. Depending on its size, you can get a new tank, or you can plumb the two compressors to a single tank. (You need to make sure that the air from one compressor doesn't flow through the other, check valves can do that.) If you're really clever, you can wire the pressure switches so that the smaller compressor does the work most of the time and the bigger one only comes on when the load exceeds the smaller's capacity. (This is pretty standard industrial compressed air practice.) Of course, if you've spent the last decade plotting ways to blow the noisy piece of machinery straight into the next county, maybe tis isn't the right path. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sun May 22 10:24:43 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 12:24:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD938CB.80003@xxiii.com> On 5/22/2011 10:26 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > I always wondered how long my 40-year-old Craftsman air compressor > tank would last, and how destructively catastrophic would the failure > be? Turns out to be 40 years, and not very. So... just how did it fail? I worry about mine, and it sounds similar. 1971 (5 years younger than me) vintage 2hp 40-ish gallon that dad bought back in the day. I drain the water occasionally but leave it pressurized full time. It lives in the basement / garage and I worry it may explode up through the floor some day. -Wayne From vlm at te-motorworks.com Sun May 22 12:10:30 2011 From: vlm at te-motorworks.com (Vincent Marshall) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 11:10:30 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor In-Reply-To: <4DD938CB.80003@xxiii.com> References: <4DD938CB.80003@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <3480F60B-21EA-4E09-8CB8-DAEB8042C9CB@te-motorworks.com> For what it's worth, new tanks are not prohibitively expensive. When I bought my used IR Type 30, I remember paying around $400 for a new 60 gallon vertical tank to replace the original from 1964. Now I don't have to think about it for another decade or two. Air compressor tanks do have an expected lifetime and it's not all that long. It also seems like you could source a tank on the real cheap by just keeping an eye out for a newer oilless compressor that has eaten itself. -vin On May 22, 2011, at 9:24 AM, Wayne wrote: > On 5/22/2011 10:26 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >> I always wondered how long my 40-year-old Craftsman air compressor >> tank would last, and how destructively catastrophic would the failure >> be? Turns out to be 40 years, and not very. > > So... just how did it fail? I worry about mine, and it sounds similar. 1971 (5 years younger than me) vintage 2hp 40-ish gallon that dad bought back in the day. I drain the water occasionally but leave it pressurized full time. It lives in the basement / garage and I worry it may explode up through the floor some day. > > -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/vlm at te-motorworks.com From fishplate at gmail.com Sun May 22 12:35:43 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 14:35:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] John Deere LX188 Carb Removal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: > Does anybody have any experience pulling the carb from one of these? All of my JD stuff is ~much~ bigger...but I went to the JD Parts site at http://jdparts.deere.com/ and I was able to view the parts diagram for your mower. It doesn't look all that different from any other small engine, but I can't see a complete drawing or photo to show where it's located. Those drawings may be of some help to you, though. Somewhere on that site, they have some manuals online, I think. Maybe. Jeff Scarbrough Green Corrosion Acres, Ga. From parkanzky at gmail.com Sun May 22 14:13:49 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 16:13:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] John Deere LX188 Carb Removal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the tips Jeff. Right after I sent that email I thought, "It can't really be that hard." and went back out to the garage. I gave it a pretty thorough look-over and the part that was confusing me was the way it was "attached" to the air box. It turned out that there were long bolts going through the entire assembly and bushings that dropped down through some of the plastic-work and into the carb. So removing the bolts didn't free the carb up, but when I figured out that those bushings were there and pulled them out it all slid right apart (sort of). I tore it all down, gave it an hour or two in carb dip and reassembled with new gaskets and such and after a bit of adjustment the mower runs like new. More importantly, all of our cars are back where they belong. Thanks, -Paul On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Paul Parkanzky > wrote: > > Does anybody have any experience pulling the carb from one of these? > > All of my JD stuff is ~much~ bigger...but I went to the JD Parts site > at http://jdparts.deere.com/ and I was able to view the parts diagram > for your mower. It doesn't look all that different from any other > small engine, but I can't see a complete drawing or photo to show > where it's located. Those drawings may be of some help to you, > though. > > Somewhere on that site, they have some manuals online, I think. Maybe. > > Jeff Scarbrough > Green Corrosion Acres, Ga. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky at gmail.com From mark at bradakis.com Sun May 22 16:32:21 2011 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 16:32:21 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] FLAPS Message-ID: <4DD98EF5.3030909@bradakis.com> 1. You walk into a friendly neighborhood auto parts store and tell the counterman "I have a 2000 Chev S10 etc. and need the hard brake line from the right rear drum to the T fitting on the axle. He clacks a few keys, goes in back and returns with the proper part. 2. Every major form of cancer becomes easily detectable and curable. 3. They finally get the date for Judgement Day correct. Which of these events will NEVER happen in our lifetimes? mjb. From rbeels at yahoo.com Tue May 24 22:34:01 2011 From: rbeels at yahoo.com (Richard Beels) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:34:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor In-Reply-To: <4DD938CB.80003@xxiii.com> References: <4DD938CB.80003@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20110524213118.06dbf568@yahoo.com> If you really worry about it, don't... Compressed air doesn't have _that_ much force. It's not explosive. It's just, well, air. It's not like it's a steam boiler sputnik wannabee. :-O More flash-bang than bomb. I've seen a couple go off and the compressor doesn't even move... At 05/22/11 at 09:24, Shakespearean monkeys danced on Wayne's keyboard and said: >On 5/22/2011 10:26 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >>I always wondered how long my 40-year-old Craftsman air compressor >>tank would last, and how destructively catastrophic would the failure >>be? Turns out to be 40 years, and not very. > >So... just how did it fail? I worry about mine, and it sounds >similar. 1971 (5 years younger than me) vintage 2hp 40-ish gallon >that dad bought back in the day. I drain the water occasionally but >leave it pressurized full time. It lives in the basement / garage >and I worry it may explode up through the floor some day. > >-Wayne Cheers! From cavanadd at frontier.com Tue May 24 23:05:11 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 22:05:11 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressor In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20110524213118.06dbf568@yahoo.com> References: <4DD938CB.80003@xxiii.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20110524213118.06dbf568@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DDC8E07.4000705@frontier.com> The ones I have seen have been a whimper, not a bang. The corrosion finally weakens the tank and it starts to leak and won't hold pressure. I think the chances of a catastrophic failure due to corrosion are pretty low. Richard Beels wrote: > If you really worry about it, don't... > > Compressed air doesn't have _that_ much force. It's not explosive. It's > just, well, air. It's not like it's a steam boiler sputnik wannabee. :-O > > More flash-bang than bomb. I've seen a couple go off and the compressor > doesn't even move... > > > > At 05/22/11 at 09:24, Shakespearean monkeys danced on Wayne's keyboard > and said: >> On 5/22/2011 10:26 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >>> I always wondered how long my 40-year-old Craftsman air compressor >>> tank would last, and how destructively catastrophic would the failure >>> be? Turns out to be 40 years, and not very. >> >> So... just how did it fail? I worry about mine, and it sounds similar. >> 1971 (5 years younger than me) vintage 2hp 40-ish gallon that dad >> bought back in the day. I drain the water occasionally but leave it >> pressurized full time. It lives in the basement / garage and I worry >> it may explode up through the floor some day. >> >> -Wayne > > > Cheers! > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From trmarty at hotmail.com Wed May 25 19:47:28 2011 From: trmarty at hotmail.com (marty sukey) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 21:47:28 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Um, dissagree. Dont loose sleep worrying about it but dont think compreesed air tanks cant go boom. Some years ago a dear friend of mine was doing a brake job and a tank he had under a work bench next to where he was working blew the end cap off hitting him in the face. The force pretty much caved in the side of his head. Obviously there was something wrong with the compressor but be aware there is potential for malfunction. Probably a one and a million chance but after that I am always aware of placement. Marty If you really worry about it, don't... Compressed air doesn't have _that_ much force. It's not explosive. It's just, well, air. It's not like it's a steam boiler sputnik wannabee. :-O From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Wed May 25 20:35:44 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 21:35:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> I always wondered about this. When I worked in my dad's shop he had an air tank that we used for tires. It was a short cylinder and had rounded ends, about the diameter of a basketball. We would fill it from our shop air source then we could carry it away from the shop and use it to fill up tires. It was very light, probably pretty thin aluminum. I always wondered how it could hold the air pressure like it did. I've seen TV documentaries about steam boilers and how they would explode with bomb-like force. I don't know much about steam power but I wondered if the average steam boiler of that era worked with higher pressure than our compressed air tanks do. Higher pressures might explain the increased explosive force. Other factors- boilers seem to have a real problem if their water level drops too far- they can increase pressure very fast if the hot parts of the boiler aren't covered by water. And antique boilers probably were built with steel with low fracture toughness meaning they could burst more suddenly than tanks built with more modern steels. Modern steels would be more liable to spring a leak somewhere rather than fracturing into lots of pieces like a bomb. > Um, dissagree. Dont loose sleep worrying about it but dont think compreesed > air tanks cant go boom. Some years ago a dear friend of mine was doing a > brake job and a tank he had under a work bench next to where he was working > blew the end cap off hitting him in the face. The force pretty much caved in > the side of his head. Obviously there was something wrong with the compressor > but be aware there is potential for malfunction. Probably a one and a million > chance but after that I am always aware of placement. From cavanadd at frontier.com Wed May 25 20:54:44 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 19:54:44 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> References: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <4DDDC0F4.4040706@frontier.com> Antique boilers were made of iron, probably, and were riveted together. The also have a lot more volume and surface area than a shop air compressor tank, which would contribute to the force of any explosion. As a side note, a lot of the "boiler" explosions in the 19th century were actually flywheel explosions. The steam engines of the day used huge 10+ foot iron flywheels and when one of those let go, it had a lot of metal flying around. BJNoSHOV8 wrote: > I always wondered about this. When I worked in my dad's shop he had an > air tank that we used for tires. It was a short cylinder and had rounded > ends, about the diameter of a basketball. We would fill it from our shop > air source then we could carry it away from the shop and use it to fill > up tires. It was very light, probably pretty thin aluminum. I always > wondered how it could hold the air pressure like it did. > > I've seen TV documentaries about steam boilers and how they would > explode with bomb-like force. I don't know much about steam power but I > wondered if the average steam boiler of that era worked with higher > pressure than our compressed air tanks do. Higher pressures might > explain the increased explosive force. Other factors- boilers seem to > have a real problem if their water level drops too far- they can > increase pressure very fast if the hot parts of the boiler aren't > covered by water. And antique boilers probably were built with steel > with low fracture toughness meaning they could burst more suddenly than > tanks built with more modern steels. Modern steels would be more liable > to spring a leak somewhere rather than fracturing into lots of pieces > like a bomb. > > >> Um, dissagree. Dont loose sleep worrying about it but dont think >> compreesed >> air tanks cant go boom. Some years ago a dear friend of mine was doing a >> brake job and a tank he had under a work bench next to where he was >> working >> blew the end cap off hitting him in the face. The force pretty much >> caved in >> the side of his head. Obviously there was something wrong with the >> compressor >> but be aware there is potential for malfunction. Probably a one and a >> million >> chance but after that I am always aware of placement. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Wed May 25 20:59:34 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 21:59:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: <4DDDC0F4.4040706@frontier.com> References: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> <4DDDC0F4.4040706@frontier.com> Message-ID: <4DDDC216.3010100@tx.rr.com> We took a trip on a Super-80 aircraft a few years ago and sat way in the back. The view out our window was nothing but engine casing. The whole trip all I could think about was a big turbine doing that same thing, right beside my head. > As a side note, a lot of the "boiler" explosions in the 19th century > were actually flywheel explosions. The steam engines of the day used > huge 10+ foot iron flywheels and when one of those let go, it had a > lot of metal flying around. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed May 25 21:09:52 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 20:09:52 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> References: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <02dc01cc1b52$62613df0$2723b9d0$@rr.com> > I wondered if the average steam boiler of that era worked with higher > pressure than our compressed air tanks do. Yes. The other problem is that the water inside is well above the boiling point and so flashes instantly into steam when the pressure drops. Low water was primarily a problem when part of the heat exchange surface was no longer covered with water. With a big, forced draft fire on the other side, the iron would quickly get hot enough to melt, with disastrous results. I agree the danger is real with air tanks, but they are much less likely to go boom than steam, IMO. When my cheap 20 gal air compressor tank rotted through, it just started quietly hissing. I didn't even notice until I decided to take a break and the compressor caught up. -- Randall From racertod at racertodd.com Wed May 25 21:50:30 2011 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 20:50:30 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: <4DDDC216.3010100@tx.rr.com> References: <4DDDC0F4.4040706@frontier.com> <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> <4DDDC0F4.4040706@frontier.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20110525204258.00bfd970@mail.avvanta.com> BJNoSHOV8 wrote: >We took a trip on a Super-80 aircraft a few years ago and sat way in the >back. The view out our window was nothing but engine casing. The whole >trip all I could think about was a big turbine doing that same thing, >right beside my head. Jet engines have shrouds that are designed to catch blades that fail and fly off. Here is some video of "blade-off" tests, including some super-duper-ultra-slow-motion footage of a blade coming off the hub. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 273,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 285,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From racertod at racertodd.com Wed May 25 22:05:06 2011 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 21:05:06 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: <02dc01cc1b52$62613df0$2723b9d0$@rr.com> References: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20110525205500.00c37dc0@mail.avvanta.com> Randall wrote: > > I wondered if the average steam boiler of that era worked with higher > > pressure than our compressed air tanks do. Steam locomotives ran at around 200-250 psi during the later part of the steam era (early 1900s-1940s). Earlier engines ran at lower pressures, mostly due to the metallurgy of the day. Don't know about stationary steam engines, but likely they ran similar pressures, again due to the materials available. A locomotive fireman had to make sure to keep the crown sheet (top panel of the firebox) covered with water at all times. Failure to due so resulted in catastrophic failure. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 273,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 286,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From doug at dougbraun.com Wed May 25 22:25:03 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 00:25:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: <4DDDC216.3010100@tx.rr.com> References: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> <4DDDC0F4.4040706@frontier.com> <4DDDC216.3010100@tx.rr.com> Message-ID: It's more entertaining in a prop twin, where you can see the tips of the propellers passing maybe 3 feet from your head... Doug On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 10:59 PM, BJNoSHOV8 wrote: > We took a trip on a Super-80 aircraft a few years ago and sat way in the > back. The view out our window was nothing but engine casing. The whole > trip all I could think about was a big turbine doing that same thing, right > beside my head. From eric at megageek.com Wed May 25 23:17:12 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 01:17:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever have a day like this? Message-ID: OK, so after years of putting it off, I decided to plumb my shop for serious air! I've been scrounging black iron pipe and fittings for years. So I get all my pipe and fittings together, I have a great diagram as to how I'm going do it and I start the process. About 1/2 way in, I realize that my shop is without air (compressor is disconnected) and water, I needed to remove water lines to run the air where I wanted them. No problem, then, I realize that my truck's tire is flat! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? years and years of maintenance and replacements with no problems, and the first flat I get is in my garage, on the VERY DAY that I don't have a compressor running to fix it!!! AGGGG!!!! So then I needed to stop, fix the tire, manually, and resume the plumbing tomorrow. UGH! On the bright side, when I get finished, I'll have a great system set up. 1" lines (that is right, 1" lines) for the main section, with only a few 3/4" drops. There are 8 drops in all, 4 auto retracting reels, two manual reels (one with 100' of 3/8th line facing out the garage door) and a bunch of drains and water separators. I can't wait for it to be finished!!! Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu May 26 01:31:19 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 00:31:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] air compressor In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20110525205500.00c37dc0@mail.avvanta.com> References: <4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com><4DDDBC80.1020305@tx.rr.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20110525205500.00c37dc0@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <0f9f01cc1b76$e82e48a0$0301a8c0@randall> > Steam locomotives ran at around 200-250 psi during > the later part > of the steam era (early 1900s-1940s). Of course, an important question is how high the pressure actually was when they exploded. Races were not uncommon, and the pressure relief valve was easily modified to allow extra pressure. It was apparently a common enough practice that one of Mark Twain's stories used "Hang a monkey wrench on the valve" as a phrase meaning to turn up the regulator. -- Randall From jamesf at groupwbench.org Thu May 26 04:53:53 2011 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 06:53:53 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever have a day like this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0E03A6CC-BFE7-457F-9CE4-4C7C45E81197@groupwbench.org> On May 26, 2011, at 1:17 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > > So then I needed to stop, fix the tire, manually, and resume the plumbing > tomorrow. UGH! That was it? Amateur :-) jim From nases at verizon.net Thu May 26 07:42:36 2011 From: nases at verizon.net (Philip Nase) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 09:42:36 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever have a day like this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been wanting to plumb my garage for some time now. Maybe this winter. Who's making a decent auto retracting reel these days? Phil Nase home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ On May 26, 2011, at 1:17 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, so after years of putting it off, I decided to plumb my shop for > serious air! > > I've been scrounging black iron pipe and fittings for years. So I get all > my pipe and fittings together, I have a great diagram as to how I'm going > do it and I start the process. > > About 1/2 way in, I realize that my shop is without air (compressor is > disconnected) and water, I needed to remove water lines to run the air > where I wanted them. > > No problem, then, I realize that my truck's tire is flat! > > ARE YOU KIDDING ME? years and years of maintenance and replacements with > no problems, and the first flat I get is in my garage, on the VERY DAY > that I don't have a compressor running to fix it!!! AGGGG!!!! > > So then I needed to stop, fix the tire, manually, and resume the plumbing > tomorrow. UGH! > > On the bright side, when I get finished, I'll have a great system set up. > 1" lines (that is right, 1" lines) for the main section, with only a few > 3/4" drops. There are 8 drops in all, 4 auto retracting reels, two manual > reels (one with 100' of 3/8th line facing out the garage door) and a bunch > of drains and water separators. I can't wait for it to be finished!!! > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nases at verizon.net From cavanadd at frontier.com Thu May 26 19:56:29 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 18:56:29 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever have a day like this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDF04CD.1060002@frontier.com> I have three of the Harbor Freight models I bought when they went on sale for $49.00. So far no problems. They don't get used day in and day out, but they do get weekend use. Philip Nase wrote: > I've been wanting to plumb my garage for some time now. Maybe this winter. > > Who's making a decent auto retracting reel these days? From cavanadd at frontier.com Thu May 26 20:00:02 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 19:00:02 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever have a day like this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDF05A2.8050403@frontier.com> You only have one air compressor???? In that huge shop? I have a portable H.F. "hot dog" compressor I keep in the garage for stuff like that and running nail guns. eric at megageek.com wrote: > So then I needed to stop, fix the tire, manually, and resume the plumbing > tomorrow. UGH! From eric at megageek.com Thu May 26 19:48:52 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 21:48:52 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever have a day like this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Phil asks... >Who's making a decent auto retracting reel these days? I bought 4 different ones so far for this project. 3 where Harbor Freight Cheepies (two different styles) and one was a "kobalt" one from Lowes. Marked down to $20! (with 40 foot of hose.) It seems that it was replaced by their new model. If I found 10 more of them, I would buy them. VERY nice. The only problem is the mounting is a little wacky. It's well thought out UNTIL you put the fasteners on. The HF ones are fine for the money but not high quality. I plan on replacing them as they break. So far, this project is into day four. I LITERALLY have over $1000 of pipe, fittings and such in my garage (most will be returned unopened.) But I can't believe that this project is consuming my life!! Right now, it's all hooked up. I just have 2 leaks to fix tomorrow. (which means dissembling pipes to fix them.) I've taken some pics, I'll post them later. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From eric at megageek.com Thu May 26 19:52:46 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 21:52:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ever have a day like this? In-Reply-To: <4DDF05A2.8050403@frontier.com> Message-ID: Yes, I have a backup compressor that is 'on loan' at the moment to my pappy! When it rains it pours!! 8>) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson "David C." 05/26/2011 21:41 To eric at megageek.com cc shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Ever have a day like this? You only have one air compressor???? In that huge shop? I have a portable H.F. "hot dog" compressor I keep in the garage for stuff like that and running nail guns. eric at megageek.com wrote: > So then I needed to stop, fix the tire, manually, and resume the plumbing > tomorrow. UGH! From eric at megageek.com Fri May 27 07:50:04 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] I give up! (almost) read >I know why pipe fitters get some much money! Message-ID: OK, day 5 of the plumbing saga and I'm about to shoot myself!! Everything is installed, all the lines are good. Turn on the air and about 15 different fittings leak badly!! So, I started the process of undoing the system to get at the joints. Turns out, that the joints were tight. They are now f###ing tight and still leak. So, it seems that the threads and the joints aren't matting right. I did you the correct pipe sealer for the job (and I've tried other types.) I've actually welded a few joints, but I can't do this to too many as the system will not be able to be taken apart. Plus, I can't carry my welder 14' in the air to get the pipes that are on the ceiling. 8>) So, is there any epoxy compound that I can use? Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm stumped. As for the cause, I see that my pipe threader has a chipped tooth. I think that may have caused bad threads on the pipe. But a few of the leaks are where factory fittings are in factory nipples. Please help! Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Fri May 27 09:01:19 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:01:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] I give up! (almost) read >I know why pipe fitters get some much money! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11e101cc1c7e$efd459b0$0301a8c0@randall> > I did > you the correct pipe sealer for the job (and I've tried other types.) So you used Loctite PST ? > As for the cause, I see that my pipe threader has a chipped tooth. I > think that may have caused bad threads on the pipe. But a few of the > leaks are where factory fittings are in factory nipples. So, get a die without a chipped tooth, and rethread the pipe for the leaking joints. A tap to chase the fittings will help, too. FWIW, my compressor leak turned out to be a cracked fitting in the drain line. Might be from vibration, but I think the casting was defective. It certainly wouldn't be the first one that was bad from the store. -- Randall From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com Fri May 27 09:35:16 2011 From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:35:16 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Repair for polycarbonate suitcase Message-ID: <1CFD8D69-F9AA-463A-AD23-D4A9547CDECE@trebelhorn.com> I have a polycarbonate suitcase with a small crack -- a little over an inch long, running from one of the feet to the edge of the piece. The manufacturer sent us a new one when I sent in a photo of the crack on a warrantee claim. Now, if I fix this crack, I'll have two nice suitcases. So, any suggestions as to how to fix a polycarbonate suitcase? I've read something about a really heavy-duty solvent that will melt the material and fuse it back together... if that's the best way to go, then suggestions on acquisition, use and handling, and disposal of the solvent would be helpful. If there's something else I should try, let me know what that might be. Shop content? Well, my wife stickered up the suitcase with stickers we got at vendor booths at vintage races at Monza. Not shop related, exactly, but it's the best I could do. TIA Matt From rwil at sbcglobal.net Fri May 27 09:36:14 2011 From: rwil at sbcglobal.net (Roland Wilhelmy) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 08:36:14 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] I give up! (almost) read >I know why pipe fitters get some much money! In-Reply-To: <11e101cc1c7e$efd459b0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <11e101cc1c7e$efd459b0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: So, is the moral of the story to leak test as you construct the air line? Or install a lot of unions so you can get at that joint in the middle of the array without dismantling the whole thing? -Roland looking at having to do this job pretty soon On Fri, 27 May 2011 08:01:19 -0700,Randall wrote: ::> I did ::> you the correct pipe sealer for the job (and I've tried other types.) :: ::So you used Loctite PST ? :: ::> As for the cause, I see that my pipe threader has a chipped tooth. I ::> think that may have caused bad threads on the pipe. But a few of the ::> leaks are where factory fittings are in factory nipples. :: ::So, get a die without a chipped tooth, and rethread the pipe for the leaking ::joints. A tap to chase the fittings will help, too. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri May 27 10:03:37 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:03:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] PEX plumbing Message-ID: <4DDFCB59.7090405@xxiii.com> I need to replace some freeze-burst water lines (in my shop) and am considering going to PEX plumbing. Anyone have suggestions on crimp tools and other necessary equipment to procure? Looks like crimpers are still stupid expensive, but it's an investment I'm considering. Are crimpers, bands, and fittings generally compatible between manufacturers? And of course... can you use PEX for compressed air? :) I understand it's elastic enough to usually survive water freezing. So it seems like you could safely use it for air, without concerns of it shattering like PVC. And it's gotta be a helluva lot easier to work with than Eric's iron pipe woes! -Wayne From jem at milleredp.com Fri May 27 10:02:53 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:02:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] I give up! (almost) read >I know why pipe fitters get some much money! In-Reply-To: References: <11e101cc1c7e$efd459b0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4DDFCB2D.3050007@milleredp.com> On 5/27/2011 8:36 AM, Roland Wilhelmy wrote: > So, is the moral of the story to leak test as you construct the air > line? Or install a lot of unions so you can get at that joint in the > middle of the array without dismantling the whole thing? Yes, if it's big enough to worry about leakage, pressure test it in segments as you go. You can find some truly amazing threads in some of the iron pipe fittings in the stores these days. When I did the plumbing on our house a few years back, I didn't have a pipe threader (the water and compressed air piping is copper, but the gas is iron.) Fortunately OSH is only three minutes away. Unfortunately the guy out back running the pipe threader was new and had no clue what he was doing. Fortunately, he responded well to suggestions. John. From jblair1948 at cox.net Fri May 27 10:07:43 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:07:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] I give up! (almost) read >I know why pipe fitters get some much money! Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110527120737.04c61098@cox.net> OK, day 5 of the plumbing saga and I'm about to shoot myself!! Everything is installed, all the lines are good. Turn on the air and about 15 different fittings leak badly!! So, I started the process of undoing the system to get at the joints. Turns out, that the joints were tight. They are now f###ing tight and still leak. So, it seems that the threads and the joints aren't matting right. I did you the correct pipe sealer for the job (and I've tried other types.) I've actually welded a few joints, but I can't do this to too many as the system will not be able to be taken apart. Plus, I can't carry my welder 14' in the air to get the pipes that are on the ceiling. 8>) So, is there any epoxy compound that I can use? Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm stumped. As for the cause, I see that my pipe threader has a chipped tooth. I think that may have caused bad threads on the pipe. But a few of the leaks are where factory fittings are in factory nipples. Please help! Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948 at cox.net John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From ronnie.day at gmail.com Fri May 27 10:15:59 2011 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:15:59 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Repair for polycarbonate suitcase In-Reply-To: <1CFD8D69-F9AA-463A-AD23-D4A9547CDECE@trebelhorn.com> References: <1CFD8D69-F9AA-463A-AD23-D4A9547CDECE@trebelhorn.com> Message-ID: I have a polycarbonate suitcase with a small crack -- a little over an inch > long, running from one of the feet to the edge of the piece. > > The manufacturer sent us a new one when I sent in a photo of the crack on a > warrantee claim. > > Now, if I fix this crack, I'll have two nice suitcases. > > So, any suggestions as to how to fix a polycarbonate suitcase? > > I've read something about a really heavy-duty solvent that will melt the > material and fuse it back together... if that's the best way to go, then > suggestions on acquisition, use and handling, and disposal of the solvent > would be helpful. If there's something else I should try, let me know what > that might be. > > Shop content? Well, my wife stickered up the suitcase with stickers we got > at vendor booths at vintage races at Monza. Not shop related, exactly, but > it's the best I could do. > > Matt, How about a piece of fiberglass cloth attached using resin? This would reinforce the entire area. If the feet are attached with rivets, drill them out, remove the foot and run the cloth well past the holes. I'll bet the holes created a stress point where the crack started in the first place. It should be easy to re-drill the holes and reattach the foot with rivets or small screws and nyloc nuts. FWIW, Ron From parkanzky at gmail.com Fri May 27 10:41:35 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:41:35 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Repair for polycarbonate suitcase In-Reply-To: <1CFD8D69-F9AA-463A-AD23-D4A9547CDECE@trebelhorn.com> References: <1CFD8D69-F9AA-463A-AD23-D4A9547CDECE@trebelhorn.com> Message-ID: <002601cc1c8c$f2391c50$d6ab54f0$@com> I would think that any of the stronger, low-polarity solvents would do just fine. I'd probably use Dichloromethane (AKA Methylene Chloride or DCM). What you'll be doing is exactly the same thing you do when you use PVC glue (which actually dissolves the PCV and 'welds' the pipes together). Google "Solvent Welding" to get a better idea. Handling is sort of tricky, but DCM isn't _that_ dangerous at the quantity you'd be handling. Nitrile gloves are what is typically recommended, but DCM will dissolve them pretty rapidly, so you really want to wear the gloves but still be careful not to have any direct contact with the solvent. To do that, just work with Q-tips or syringes of solvent and use very little at a time at a finger's length away. Also, work someplace that has good ventilation. Polycarbonates solder pretty well, so that's another option. An electric plastic welder (or a cheap soldering iron, in a pinch) can melt it back together. Good Luck, -Paul P. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Trebelhorn Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 11:35 AM To: shoptalk Subject: [Shop-talk] Repair for polycarbonate suitcase I have a polycarbonate suitcase with a small crack -- a little over an inch long, running from one of the feet to the edge of the piece. The manufacturer sent us a new one when I sent in a photo of the crack on a warrantee claim. Now, if I fix this crack, I'll have two nice suitcases. So, any suggestions as to how to fix a polycarbonate suitcase? I've read something about a really heavy-duty solvent that will melt the material and fuse it back together... if that's the best way to go, then suggestions on acquisition, use and handling, and disposal of the solvent would be helpful. If there's something else I should try, let me know what that might be. Shop content? Well, my wife stickered up the suitcase with stickers we got at vendor booths at vintage races at Monza. Not shop related, exactly, but it's the best I could do. TIA Matt From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri May 27 10:48:44 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 09:48:44 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] I give up! (almost) read >I know why pipe fitters get some much money! In-Reply-To: References: <11e101cc1c7e$efd459b0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <056f01cc1c8d$f2c931e0$d85b95a0$@rr.com> > So, is the moral of the story to leak test as you construct the air > line? Or install a lot of unions so you can get at that joint in the > middle of the array without dismantling the whole thing? I did both to some extent; because I figured the odds were good that I would either want to modify it later, or it would develop leaks in service. The unions also make it easier to poke through walls and such. -- Randall From eric at megageek.com Fri May 27 11:52:49 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:52:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] PEX plumbing In-Reply-To: <4DDFCB59.7090405@xxiii.com> Message-ID: Wayne, go here... Use these Watt's connectors and you don't need ANY tools!!! They are great (and this is the cheapest place I found to get them in bulk.) The are reusable and make plumbing a dream. Why it is rated for air use, I wouldn't use them. Here is why... 1- Moisture doesn't condense as much in plastic. 2-These lines and connectors aren't available in the size (1") that I used for the shop. They are great connectors and work awesome. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Wayne Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 05/27/2011 12:05 To Shop Talk List cc Subject [Shop-talk] PEX plumbing I need to replace some freeze-burst water lines (in my shop) and am considering going to PEX plumbing. Anyone have suggestions on crimp tools and other necessary equipment to procure? Looks like crimpers are still stupid expensive, but it's an investment I'm considering. Are crimpers, bands, and fittings generally compatible between manufacturers? And of course... can you use PEX for compressed air? :) I understand it's elastic enough to usually survive water freezing. So it seems like you could safely use it for air, without concerns of it shattering like PVC. And it's gotta be a helluva lot easier to work with than Eric's iron pipe woes! From parkanzky at gmail.com Fri May 27 13:12:43 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:12:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] PEX plumbing In-Reply-To: <4DDFCB59.7090405@xxiii.com> References: <4DDFCB59.7090405@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <002901cc1ca2$0efb6d60$2cf24820$@com> I recently finished my basement, adding a bathroom and wet bar in the process. I did all of the plumbing with PEX (and used copper stub-outs at the wall to finish it out. I love PEX plumbing. My father-in-law has the crimper, which he bought when they built his other daughter's house. That house is completely plumbed in PEX, including the in-floor radiant heating and the 300' underground run of 1" PEX that goes to the outdoor wood furnace. I believe that his is the Zurn brand. It is basically just a pair of bolt cutters with a fancy jaw (and a >$100 price tag!). It was great to be able to borrow that for the project since I don't need to have one around all the time. If it's just a few fittings, I'd recommend the Watt's connectors that Eric linked. That's what I used on the few things that I had to install after I'd returned his crimper and they are extremely easy to use. I would have been tempted to use them for everything if I'd found them as cheap as Eric linked. I paid at least twice that for the stuff I bought at the big box store. One warning. You say it's for a water line in a shop. If it's at all exposed, you'll need to do something to ensure that it doesn't see any sunlight. Polyethylenes will continue to cross-link under UV exposure and get brittle, eventually leading to failures. -Paul P. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:04 PM To: Shop Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] PEX plumbing I need to replace some freeze-burst water lines (in my shop) and am considering going to PEX plumbing. Anyone have suggestions on crimp tools and other necessary equipment to procure? Looks like crimpers are still stupid expensive, but it's an investment I'm considering. Are crimpers, bands, and fittings generally compatible between manufacturers? And of course... can you use PEX for compressed air? :) I understand it's elastic enough to usually survive water freezing. So it seems like you could safely use it for air, without concerns of it shattering like PVC. And it's gotta be a helluva lot easier to work with than Eric's iron pipe woes! -Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky at gmail.com From jniolon at bham.rr.com Fri May 27 13:29:41 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 14:29:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] pex piping question Message-ID: <423426E878014790A26654A6D87A3AAC@OwnerPC> thinking about this PEX stuff and ease of install... I have a 3/4" water line in unattached garage...never been used... I'd like to extend this line to another area of the yard (on other side of driveway and building..and install a hydrant for watering seems like a quick ditching job and laying this stuff in the hole would make quick work of it... surely they make copper/pex adapters for the tie in... and pex/galv for the hydrant end... with appropriate cut offs and drain valves... and maybe a cutoff with a air coupling in the garage to blow it all down come winter... is this stuff good for underground burial ?? would it work well and be cheaper than pvc ?? thanks John and happy Memorial day to all From parkanzky at gmail.com Fri May 27 13:55:11 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 15:55:11 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pex piping question In-Reply-To: <423426E878014790A26654A6D87A3AAC@OwnerPC> References: <423426E878014790A26654A6D87A3AAC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <003201cc1ca7$fd9f1840$f8dd48c0$@com> This stuff gets buried all the time for those outdoor wood furnace installs. It's incredibly easy to work with. You can't make a very small radius turn, but otherwise it installs about like garden hose... -Paul -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 3:30 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] pex piping question thinking about this PEX stuff and ease of install... I have a 3/4" water line in unattached garage...never been used... I'd like to extend this line to another area of the yard (on other side of driveway and building..and install a hydrant for watering seems like a quick ditching job and laying this stuff in the hole would make quick work of it... surely they make copper/pex adapters for the tie in... and pex/galv for the hydrant end... with appropriate cut offs and drain valves... and maybe a cutoff with a air coupling in the garage to blow it all down come winter... is this stuff good for underground burial ?? would it work well and be cheaper than pvc ?? thanks John and happy Memorial day to all _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky at gmail.com From eric at megageek.com Fri May 27 15:44:50 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 17:44:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pex piping question In-Reply-To: <423426E878014790A26654A6D87A3AAC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I installed a hydrant about a month ago doing exactly what you are talking about. Here is the problem... Hydrants connect to the water supply at the bottom of the pipe. So it's just a straight pipe that you need an elbow for at the bottom. ANY plastic connection there will break right away. So here is what I did... I plumbed the hydrant with metal fittings (an 90degree elbow at the bottom, then about a 12" piece of metal pipe, then another 90 metal elbow up about 3" to the final 90 metal elbow. from there, I connected to the pex (they have fittings to go from one to the other.) Using this method, the hydrant is mounted to a good metal 'base' arm and the stress is completely off the pex. Let me know if I did explain it right, I can draw it much easier. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson "john niolon" Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 05/27/2011 15:29 To "shop-talk" cc Subject [Shop-talk] pex piping question thinking about this PEX stuff and ease of install... I have a 3/4" water line in unattached garage...never been used... I'd like to extend this line to another area of the yard (on other side of driveway and building..and install a hydrant for watering seems like a quick ditching job and laying this stuff in the hole would make quick work of it... surely they make copper/pex adapters for the tie in... and pex/galv for the hydrant end... with appropriate cut offs and drain valves... and maybe a cutoff with a air coupling in the garage to blow it all down come winter... is this stuff good for underground burial ?? would it work well and be cheaper than pvc ?? thanks John and happy Memorial day to all _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From darrellw at ipns.com Fri May 27 20:24:01 2011 From: darrellw at ipns.com (Darrell Walker) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 19:24:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches Message-ID: I recently added a TR8 to the fleet, and needed to expand my set of metric tools (though the 8 still has a lot of inch hardware). Anyway, I bought two sets of end wrenches and a set of 1/2" drive sockets. Each of the sets has sizes at every millimeter (i.e. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 .... mm). But so far, aside from one brake line fitting that seemed to be 10mm, every other fastener is an odd size. Am I ever going to need the even sized wrenches? -Darrell -- Darrell Walker 66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L 81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206 Vancouver, WA, USA From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Fri May 27 21:01:57 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 20:01:57 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall> > But so far, aside from one brake line fitting that seemed to > be 10mm, every > other fastener is an odd size. Am I ever going to need the even sized > wrenches? Dunno what the head sizes are on a TR8, but Toyotas seem to have a lot of even-mm sizes. Might be the difference between JIS and ISO? -- Randall From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri May 27 21:21:24 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 23:21:24 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE06A34.20407@xxiii.com> On 5/27/2011 10:24 PM, Darrell Walker wrote: > But so far, aside from one brake line fitting that seemed to be 10mm, every > other fastener is an odd size. Am I ever going to need the even sized > wrenches? From what I've seen and heard, Asian cars use mostly even sizes (8, 10, 12, 14, 17mm from experience) and Europeans use the odd sizes. Mom's BMW has 13, 15, etc. -w From 57healey at gmail.com Fri May 27 21:22:17 2011 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 22:22:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <-5017730249229742736@unknownmsgid> I used a 17mm on my BMW starter last week. On May 27, 2011, at 9:48 PM, Darrell Walker wrote: > I recently added a TR8 to the fleet, and needed to expand my set of metric > tools (though the 8 still has a lot of inch hardware). > > Anyway, I bought two sets of end wrenches and a set of 1/2" drive sockets. > Each of the sets has sizes at every millimeter (i.e. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 .... > mm). > > But so far, aside from one brake line fitting that seemed to be 10mm, every > other fastener is an odd size. Am I ever going to need the even sized > wrenches? From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri May 27 21:37:16 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 22:37:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall> References: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:01 PM, Randall wrote: >> But so far, aside from one brake line fitting that seemed to >> be 10mm, every >> other fastener is an odd size. B Am I ever going to need the even sized >> wrenches? > > Dunno what the head sizes are on a TR8, but Toyotas seem to have a lot of > even-mm sizes. B Might be the difference between JIS and ISO? > Standards, so many to choose from. There are three common metric bolt standards.[1] For a given diameter, JIS will be smaller (above 6mm. 6mm and below, they're mostly the same. except for really small stuff, which are a different set of standards.) JIS use 12mm heads for 8mm bolts and 14 for 10mm, which are pretty common car stuff. DIN use 13 and 17 mm heads for those sizes (except where they don't, because they've decided that 17 is just too big and will shear bolts.) ISO use 13 and 16. Bigger than that, I'd have to look it up. Who knows what Triumph was doing on the TR8. (sounds like DIN, which I don't hink has any even sizes above 6mm (10mm head) until they get really big (30mm heads on 20ish mm bolts) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jem at milleredp.com Fri May 27 21:39:55 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 20:39:55 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall> References: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4DE06E8B.2050408@milleredp.com> >> But so far, aside from one brake line fitting that seemed to >> be 10mm, every >> other fastener is an odd size. Am I ever going to need the even sized >> wrenches? You must be working on a German car... Japanese have lots of even-size heads. Detroit has lots of even-size heads. And if you're working on anything late-model and European you're gonna need a set of outside Torx sockets soon... John. From darrellw at ipns.com Fri May 27 22:20:14 2011 From: darrellw at ipns.com (Darrell Walker) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:20:14 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: References: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <81A32813-F6F0-47AE-B4F4-1C52404203C4@ipns.com> Hi David, On May 27, 2011, at 8:37 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > Standards, so many to choose from. There are three common metric > bolt standards.[1] For a given diameter, JIS will be smaller (above > 6mm. 6mm and below, they're mostly the same. except for really small > stuff, which are a different set of standards.) JIS use 12mm heads > for 8mm bolts and 14 for 10mm, which are pretty common car stuff. DIN > use 13 and 17 mm heads for those sizes (except where they don't, > because they've decided that 17 is just too big and will shear bolts.) > ISO use 13 and 16. Bigger than that, I'd have to look it up. > > Who knows what Triumph was doing on the TR8. (sounds like DIN, which > I don't hink has any even sizes above 6mm (10mm head) until they get > really big (30mm heads on 20ish mm bolts) Thanks for the explanation. Most of the metric bolts on the TR8 seem to be 10 and 12 mm (17 and 19 mm heads). There are a few 8 mm (13 mm head), and it seems like I've used the 15 mm somewhere, maybe on the oversized nuts that hold the brake line ends. There are some 6mm bolts (holding the front brake dust shield), those might have been a 10 mm head). You really have to pay attention because some of the metric sizes fit pretty well in imperial wrenches. Generally the engine is imperial (I suppose because of it's Buick history), and most of the rest is metric. But there are some exceptions that don't seem to make any sense. For example, the rear suspension links are 7/16" bolts, while the front uses 12mm. Except for the ball joints, which are 1/2".... So much for the superiority of the metric system! (I know, it isn't the system's fault, it is the competing standards). From racertod at racertodd.com Fri May 27 22:25:16 2011 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 21:25:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Repair for polycarbonate suitcase In-Reply-To: <1CFD8D69-F9AA-463A-AD23-D4A9547CDECE@trebelhorn.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20110527212259.00bdaf00@mail.avvanta.com> MAtt wrote: >So, any suggestions as to how to fix a polycarbonate suitcase? Urethane Supply (www.urethanesupply.com) has info on how to identify and repair plastics and, of course, they sell all the tools and supplies needed to do so. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 273,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 286,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From jem at milleredp.com Fri May 27 23:46:57 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 22:46:57 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: <81A32813-F6F0-47AE-B4F4-1C52404203C4@ipns.com> References: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall> <81A32813-F6F0-47AE-B4F4-1C52404203C4@ipns.com> Message-ID: <4DE08C51.1040905@milleredp.com> > You really have to pay attention because some of the metric sizes fit pretty > well in imperial wrenches. Generally the engine is imperial (I suppose > because of it's Buick history), and most of the rest is metric. But there are > some exceptions that don't seem to make any sense. For example, the rear > suspension links are 7/16" bolts, while the front uses 12mm. Except for the > ball joints, which are 1/2".... Yeah, this is pretty typical of a lot of vehicles of mixed parentage, or of UK or US build during the metric transition or in some cases where an off-the-shelf part is used that's been around since dinosaurs roamed the Earth. That engine was originally laid out around 1960, it would have been done with inch-measure fasteners at that time even if it'd been done in the UK. Was that rear suspension link shared with something like the Rover SD1? I'm in the process of parting/scrapping my '91 Suburban. This is a design that first entered production in 1973. Most of the chassis is still SAE. The body is about 50/50 (oddly enough). The 454 engine is all SAE but the 4L80E transmission is metric. The steering box mounts with SAE bolts but the hose fittings are metric. And so on. You get used to this after a while. And yes, a lot of wrench sizes overlap (5/16 and 8mm are interchangeable, there are the rare 13mm capscrew heads that won't take a 1/2in socket, 19mm and 3/4in are pretty much always compatible, likewise 22mm and 7/8in, etc. and I think one automaker - Ford? - came up with an "11mm" head that'd accept a 7/16 wrench). John. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat May 28 06:36:01 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:36:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: <4DE08C51.1040905@milleredp.com> References: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall> <81A32813-F6F0-47AE-B4F4-1C52404203C4@ipns.com> <4DE08C51.1040905@milleredp.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 12:46 AM, John Miller wrote: >> You really have to pay attention because some of the metric sizes fit >> pretty >> well in imperial wrenches. B Generally the engine is imperial (I suppose >> because of it's Buick history), and most of the rest is metric. B But there >> are >> some exceptions that don't seem to make any sense. B For example, the rear >> suspension links are 7/16" bolts, while the front uses 12mm. B Except for >> the >> ball joints, which are 1/2".... > > Yeah, this is pretty typical of a lot of vehicles of mixed parentage, or of > UK or US build during the metric transition or in some cases where an > off-the-shelf part is used that's been around since dinosaurs roamed the > Earth. > > That engine was originally laid out around 1960, it would have been done > with inch-measure fasteners at that time even if it'd been done in the UK. > B Was that rear suspension link shared with something like the Rover SD1? > > I'm in the process of parting/scrapping my '91 Suburban. B This is a design > that first entered production in 1973. > > Most of the chassis is still SAE. B The body is about 50/50 (oddly enough). > B The 454 engine is all SAE but the 4L80E transmission is metric. B The > steering box mounts with SAE bolts but the hose fittings are metric. B And so > on. B You get used to this after a while. B And yes, a lot of wrench sizes > overlap (5/16 and 8mm are interchangeable, there are the rare 13mm capscrew > heads that won't take a 1/2in socket, 19mm and 3/4in are pretty much always > compatible, likewise 22mm and 7/8in, etc. and I think one automaker - Ford? > - came up with an "11mm" head that'd accept a 7/16 wrench). > 11 mm is 7 mm DIN, I believe. Standard bolt, not much used. There's a 5.5mm head that shows up from time to time, which is really a 7/32". My personal favorite insanity is where GM (and Ford and Chrysler, though not as much) used a special bolt with SAE threads, and a metric head, to, I've been told, meet contract requirements that jobs be done with one toolkit. I don't know that's the resons, but the bolts surely were there. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jibjib at att.net Sat May 28 08:01:05 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:01:05 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric wrenches In-Reply-To: References: <12cd01cc1ce3$9bdce240$0301a8c0@randall><81A32813-F6F0-47AE-B4F4-1C52404203C4@ipns.com><4DE08C51.1040905@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <4E8F571506DA4348B48ADB04544EBAD6@EntCent> My 1980 Buick Regal, which had a Pontiac engine, had four different sizes of bolts which had to be removed to pull the water pump, due to what they were bolted into. Two were metric and two were standard. Once you have decent tools, it's just a matter of time until you find the right one. I still have some Whitworth stuff from my Norton somewhere. From kvacek at ameritech.net Sat May 28 15:25:11 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:25:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Patch panels Message-ID: <001101cc1d7d$ba98b7f0$2fca27d0$@ameritech.net> I need to do some minimally-expensive rust repair on our 1993 GMC Suburban - probably replace the front fenders and weld in patch panels around the rear wheel openings. A Google search finds many suppliers of aftermarket sheet metal, but there's little to differentiate them till I actually order and find out what the quality is like. Shipping on these big items makes that a pretty expensive proposition. Anyone know of a reliable supplier, or better brands of sheet metal for that vintage of GM trucks? Thanks! Karl Pilots - Looking down on people since 1903 From brabel at comcast.net Sat May 28 18:11:56 2011 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 17:11:56 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable Workbench Message-ID: Listers - Take a look at this workbench design. The designer, Ron Paulk, built my house. He is as attentive to detail as anyone I know. With homebuilding in the dumper, he has had time to refine his design. Also, the portability lends itself to the types of jobs that are currently on tap, such as small remodels. - Bill Rabel Anacortes From pj_thomas at comcast.net Sat May 28 18:25:08 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 20:25:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Pedestal Sink Trap Message-ID: <4DE19264.7070103@comcast.net> I've demo'ed the powder room. Replacing the vinyl with tile, the vantiy with a pedestal sink and going to add wainscoting. The problem is the waste line for the sink. Originally the P trap went out the left side of the vanity tied into a 1 1/2 inch vertical stack which is the vent stack above the junction. I believe this is also the vent for the toilet as the 1 1/2 waste line ties into the end of the toilet waste line. The reason it went into the side wall instead of the back wall is because there is a joist underneath the back wall. Putting the sink against the side wall is not an option, I must to against the back wall. So what to do? Option one is an S Trap. Pretty sure it won't siphon the trap It's just a powder room sink and there aren't any fixtures upstream. But S Traps are against code. Also I can't find a "Pedestal Trap", so the pipe would be exposed against the back wall. I can't put it in the wall because of a joist underneath the wall. Any one know of a source for a "Pedestal Trap". Option two is to use a P Trap in the back was with a 1 1/4 vent running horiztonally through the wall, tied into the original. For a 1 1/2" drain I only need 3/4" but code says a minimum of 1 1/4" for the vent. None of the walls are load bearing. So I believe the would meet code. Still the pipe can't go completely in the wall because of the joist below. Option three is to put the trap in the floor. Straight pipe down through the pedestal and a small 1 1/2" P trap in the floor. I actually like this option the best but not sure it's legal. Any sights? Peter T. From fishplate at gmail.com Sat May 28 18:36:27 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 20:36:27 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Pedestal Sink Trap In-Reply-To: <4DE19264.7070103@comcast.net> References: <4DE19264.7070103@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > I've demo'ed the powder room. Replacing the vinyl with tile, the vantiy > with a pedestal sink and going to add wainscoting. The S-trap is right out. But since you're adding wainscoting, and the wall isn't load-bearing, can you open the wall and "adjust" the framing so that the trap enters behind the pedestal and turns to meet the existing stack? This might have been what you meant by Option 2, but it wasn't clear to me. Or, you could "adjust" the stack to come behind the pedestal. Putting the trap in the floor sounds bad if there's a finished ceiling below, otherwise it just sounds complicated. Just thinking out loud... Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From pj_thomas at comcast.net Sat May 28 18:54:50 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 20:54:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Pedestal Sink Trap In-Reply-To: References: <4DE19264.7070103@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DE1995A.3050001@comcast.net> On 5/28/2011 8:36 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: >> I've demo'ed the powder room. Replacing the vinyl with tile, the vantiy >> with a pedestal sink and going to add wainscoting. > > > The S-trap is right out. But since you're adding wainscoting, and the > wall isn't load-bearing, can you open the wall and "adjust" the > framing so that the trap enters behind the pedestal and turns to meet > the existing stack? This might have been what you meant by Option 2, > but it wasn't clear to me. Or, you could "adjust" the stack to come > behind the pedestal. I've already opened the wall completely where the old vanity was. Might as well as I have to plumb the back wall and unplumb the side wall. Actually, I meant to have a new 1 1/14 vent turn and meet the existing stack. Not comfortable drilling any larger than 1 1/4" But I guess I could down size the waste line to 1 1/4". There is one thing I neglected to mention > Putting the trap in the floor sounds bad if there's a finished ceiling > below, otherwise it just sounds complicated. It's a basement garage ceiling. So not a biggie. Also not too complicated, my shower on the second floor has a trap in the floor which I've replaced. Still my preferred method as the waste pipe would be completely hidden. Just don't know if it is legal or that there could be problems like retrieving a lost ring from the trap. Thanks, Peter T. > > Just thinking out loud... > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. From eric at megageek.com Sat May 28 20:53:42 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:53:42 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Success (well for now) Message-ID: Yesterday I tried locktite Epoxy "metal" to fix the air leaking pipes. It takes 24 hours to cure. I had 4 main leaks. After waiting a day, I recharged the system and to my delight, no leaks. After a few seconds, one of the leaks returned very slightly. I re-epoxied it and we'll see how it goes tomorrow. Turns out that my chipped die was for 1" pipe and 3 of the 4 leaks were 3/4". The 4th one was two factory fittings. We'll see how these repairs hold up. My system runs at 120PSI. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Sun May 29 10:41:38 2011 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 09:41:38 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric vs inch vs din vs sae vs whitworth vs bsd (sounds like a cage match where everyone loses) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <424A5DCF5CE14692A164B1CCDE6F4883@delld520> <<>> And I'll say a good word for the standards and blame expediency, lazy engineers (I know because I am one, though we call it energy efficient now), and cost measures. Mark Miller Who spent yesterday morning taking apart and reassembling an on demand hot water heater because someone saved 1/2 cent on a POS sensor clamp. Thank you, Bosch. From jibjib at att.net Sun May 29 12:52:44 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 11:52:44 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Pedestal Sink Trap In-Reply-To: <4DE1995A.3050001@comcast.net> References: <4DE19264.7070103@comcast.net> <4DE1995A.3050001@comcast.net> Message-ID: <93F30EB7BDAD4AA9A21CEEECCC42E8FF@EntCent> >From what I've seen, it sound like what you would like to do is run the pipe into the back wall, through the studs to the side wall where the stack is located, but putting a decent sized hole in the back wall studs is an issues. I'm not up on code in GA, but if you added doubler studs for a foot or two on both sides of each back wall stud you needed to run the pipe through, you would have sufficient strength in the wall. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Peter J. Thomas Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 5:55 PM To: Jeff Scarbrough Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Pedestal Sink Trap On 5/28/2011 8:36 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: >> I've demo'ed the powder room. Replacing the vinyl with tile, the vantiy >> with a pedestal sink and going to add wainscoting. > > > The S-trap is right out. But since you're adding wainscoting, and the > wall isn't load-bearing, can you open the wall and "adjust" the > framing so that the trap enters behind the pedestal and turns to meet > the existing stack? This might have been what you meant by Option 2, > but it wasn't clear to me. Or, you could "adjust" the stack to come > behind the pedestal. I've already opened the wall completely where the old vanity was. Might as well as I have to plumb the back wall and unplumb the side wall. Actually, I meant to have a new 1 1/14 vent turn and meet the existing stack. Not comfortable drilling any larger than 1 1/4" But I guess I could down size the waste line to 1 1/4". There is one thing I neglected to mention > Putting the trap in the floor sounds bad if there's a finished ceiling > below, otherwise it just sounds complicated. It's a basement garage ceiling. So not a biggie. Also not too complicated, my shower on the second floor has a trap in the floor which I've replaced. Still my preferred method as the waste pipe would be completely hidden. Just don't know if it is legal or that there could be problems like retrieving a lost ring from the trap. Thanks, Peter T. > > Just thinking out loud... > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From eric at megageek.com Mon May 30 20:25:01 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 22:25:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... Message-ID: Well, after a brief day of not bothering with the new air lines (because I had a huge tree to remove) I'm back to getting the new air lines squared away. When we last left this saga, I had some success with epoxy to seal the bigger leaks (audible.) But, now I'm up against a harder problem. The system has minor leak(s) in it. It's still usable, but when I test it for pressure, it will bleed down completely in a few hours. My questions are as follows... How do you find these minor leaks? I have hundreds of joints and many of them are barely accessible. I've been using dish soap with water with only limited success. Is there another or easier way? Then there is my idea and I'm wondering if it will work or if there is a better product out there like this... I should be able to introduce a fluid of sorts into the air stream. The fluid will find its way out of the leaks and clog them up. I was thinking of using tire slime for this purpose. Now, I realize that I have to be careful to let it get all over the lines, then I need to get it out of the lines before I start using tools. This shouldn't be a problem. Is there a product designed for this? Is there a better way to find/fix leaks? I'm sure I'm not the first bubba with this issue. Thanks! Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From hillman at planet-torque.com Mon May 30 21:00:16 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 23:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 May 2011, eric at megageek.com wrote: > I should be able to introduce a fluid of sorts into the air stream. The > fluid will find its way out of the leaks and clog them up. I was thinking > of using tire slime for this purpose. I can't see Time Slime working. It's too heavy. In order to seal a tire with it, it has to be rotated at 20-30 mph for a while shortly after application. When I use it to seal studded ice-racing tires, I put the racecar on jack stands, and make two tires at a time, so I can throw them on the driven wheels and run them in. Otherwise, it all sags to the bottom of the tire, and you have junk. How are you going to spin your shop at 20 mph? ;) -- David Hillman From strovato at optonline.net Mon May 30 21:18:20 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 23:18:20 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0LM100FGQILRDSK0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I'm not saying this is a good idea, but I do know they make a version for wheelbarrow tires. I've never been able to get my wheelbarrow up to 20 mph. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 11:00 PM 5/30/2011, David Hillman wrote: > I can't see Time Slime working. It's too heavy. In order to > seal a tire with it, it has to be rotated at 20-30 mph for a while > shortly after application. From doug at dougbraun.com Mon May 30 21:33:40 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 23:33:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: <0LM100FGQILRDSK0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0LM100FGQILRDSK0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: The surplus Slime would probably get blown into the regulator and tools, which could not be good... Doug From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Mon May 30 21:40:15 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 22:40:15 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE4631F.8020709@tx.rr.com> Our shop used to have a product for radiators- a small package of powder that you poured in the radiator to seal leaks. I'm not sure how this material worked or what activated it, but you could dissolve it in water, fill your lines with this liquid, and then pressurize the lines. An air system like you are building is a very common thing, maybe this problem has been solved before. Have you done some google searching yet? >> I should be able to introduce a fluid of sorts into the air stream. The >> fluid will find its way out of the leaks and clog them up. I was >> thinking >> of using tire slime for this purpose. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Mon May 30 21:47:44 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 23:47:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? Message-ID: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> Like 3000 p.s.i. high. Like they use to fill scuba tanks. Is it even feasible? What sort of compressor generates that kind of pressure? I'm asking for paintball of all things--my son wanted to play, we played. If we're going to go again, it'll be a lot cheaper to just buy markers used, and they used compressed air to fill the tanks. The internet says they use ultra-high-pressure air in those tanks, but looking at this setup, it just looked like a fairly large 'normal' compressor. And he used a rubber hose to connect to the tank, and didnt' sink it in a water bath (like they did with tanks when I dove). And the internet also says a tank of air should last a day (or a box of 2000 paintballs). We re-filled at least 15 times before then. So...I suppose we may have been using a more moderate pressure, but I thought I'd ask if anyone here knew about getting those sorts of pressures anyway. I'm thinking even the tank on the compressor must be insane. I'm not even sure I'd want that near my house. I am pretty sure, though, that I don't want to have to traipse all over town getting CO2 tanks refilled on a regular basis, so if I need to make a high-pressure setup happen and it's possible, I'll give it a shot. Anyone ever head of this? From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Mon May 30 22:26:30 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:26:30 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? In-Reply-To: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> References: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01e601cc1f4a$ea639ee0$0301a8c0@randall> It is a 'normal' compressor, more or less, except more stages rather than the usual one or two. ISTR the ones I've seen on seismic survey ships run 5 or 6 stages. Google for "paint ball compressor" and you'll find lots of commercially available setups. But maybe when you see the price, you'll decide that buying pre-filled cylinders is better. The web site I found talks about 5000 psi being customary for paint ball (3000 is scuba), so that may explain why you had to refill so many times. -- Randall From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Mon May 30 22:28:35 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 23:28:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? In-Reply-To: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> References: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DE46E73.7070602@tx.rr.com> My nephew owned a paintball park at one time, and he had a small compressor that did the pressurizing. You can also buy an old scuba tank, have it filled, and fill your paintball marker (gun) tanks from that. An electric compressor might be a little expensive for a casual paintball shooter, but an old scuba tank isn't that expensive. Did you question the use of a rubber hose? Rubber hoses used in hydraulics can easily go 10,000 psi. Target shooters that use airguns now use very high pressure compressed air just like paintball markers. They usually refill the tanks on their guns from a scuba tank, but you can also buy a hand compressor that will go up to that pressure. I understand it takes a lot of work to get to that pressure level though. > Like 3000 p.s.i. high. Like they use to fill scuba tanks. > > Is it even feasible? What sort of compressor generates that kind of > pressure? > > I'm asking for paintball of all things--my son wanted to play, we played. From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Mon May 30 22:37:49 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 21:37:49 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01e801cc1f4c$7f329a20$0301a8c0@randall> Never heard of it used that way, but it seems to me that sodium silicate (water glass) would be closer to what you want than Slime. Cap off all the outlets (don't want it in your quick connects or regulators, etc) then fill the system with a relatively weak solution (so it doesn't cost so much) and leave it under pressure for a few hours. Then drain and let dry thoroughly. I read somewhere that they were using sodium silicate to stop the radioactive water leaks in Japan. -- Randall From eric at megageek.com Tue May 31 04:26:18 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 06:26:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? In-Reply-To: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> Message-ID: As a rescue diver and a paintballer, I have experience with both of these set ups. First, to get a compressor that hits 3000 psi requires 3 phase normally. To fill scuba tanks, there are lots of other special requirements (dryers, intake restrictions, etc.) Next, paint ball guns don't normally work well with compressed air. They are meant to use either CO2 or nitrogen. This means that a standard compressor is not going to help. Now, for the solution (at least what me and many others do.) Buy a large cylinder of CO2 and a "fill station" for the marker tanks. (normally a hose with the proper connections.) Just use the tank to refill the markers (you'll fill lots of markers from one tank.) When it's empty, just get it refilled, it isn't that expensive. Let me know if you have any other questions. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Scott Hall Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 05/30/2011 23:36 To Shop Talk List cc Subject [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? Like 3000 p.s.i. high. Like they use to fill scuba tanks. Is it even feasible? What sort of compressor generates that kind of pressure? I'm asking for paintball of all things--my son wanted to play, we played. If we're going to go again, it'll be a lot cheaper to just buy markers used, and they used compressed air to fill the tanks. The internet says they use ultra-high-pressure air in those tanks, but looking at this setup, it just looked like a fairly large 'normal' compressor. And he used a rubber hose to connect to the tank, and didnt' sink it in a water bath (like they did with tanks when I dove). And the internet also says a tank of air should last a day (or a box of 2000 paintballs). We re-filled at least 15 times before then. So...I suppose we may have been using a more moderate pressure, but I thought I'd ask if anyone here knew about getting those sorts of pressures anyway. I'm thinking even the tank on the compressor must be insane. I'm not even sure I'd want that near my house. I am pretty sure, though, that I don't want to have to traipse all over town getting CO2 tanks refilled on a regular basis, so if I need to make a high-pressure setup happen and it's possible, I'll give it a shot. Anyone ever head of this? From doug at dougbraun.com Tue May 31 05:22:22 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 07:22:22 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? In-Reply-To: <01e601cc1f4a$ea639ee0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> <01e601cc1f4a$ea639ee0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: How do they make a paintball gun that works on 5000 PSI air? Wouldn't it end up being really heavy? How fast are those paintballs going to go with 5000 PSI behind them? Doesn't the performance decline as the air is used up? I would think that you could get a lot more shots out of an equivalent volume of liquified CO2. Doug On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Randall wrote: > It is a 'normal' compressor, more or less, except more stages rather than > the usual one or two. ISTR the ones I've seen on seismic survey ships run 5 > or 6 stages. > > Google for "paint ball compressor" and you'll find lots of commercially > available setups. But maybe when you see the price, you'll decide that > buying pre-filled cylinders is better. > > The web site I found talks about 5000 psi being customary for paint ball > (3000 is scuba), so that may explain why you had to refill so many times. > > -- Randall From parkanzky at gmail.com Tue May 31 06:19:57 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:19:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? In-Reply-To: References: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> <01e601cc1f4a$ea639ee0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <000001cc1f8d$0f1f96c0$2d5ec440$@com> It's the same way you can run your air tools off of a 3000 PSI tank of Nitrogen at the track. You regulate it down to the working pressure of the gun. The paintball never sees 5000 PSI, it gets whatever the regulator in front of the gun is set to. Since you're using a regulator, the performance won't decline until the tank pressure drops below the regulator set point. You get the added benefit of storing 5000 PSI worth of gas in the bottle instead of 500 (or whatever). I don't know why it would be heavy, unless you mean the tanks/hoses/fittings used to hold those pressures would be heavy, but only the tank and gear before the first regulator has to withstand the highest pressures and one of the stronger light-weight alloys or a composite material can make a suitable tank without too much heft. -Paul -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Douglas Braun Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 7:22 AM To: Randall Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? How do they make a paintball gun that works on 5000 PSI air? Wouldn't it end up being really heavy? How fast are those paintballs going to go with 5000 PSI behind them? Doesn't the performance decline as the air is used up? I would think that you could get a lot more shots out of an equivalent volume of liquified CO2. Doug On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Randall wrote: > It is a 'normal' compressor, more or less, except more stages rather than > the usual one or two. ISTR the ones I've seen on seismic survey ships run 5 > or 6 stages. > > Google for "paint ball compressor" and you'll find lots of commercially > available setups. But maybe when you see the price, you'll decide that > buying pre-filled cylinders is better. > > The web site I found talks about 5000 psi being customary for paint ball > (3000 is scuba), so that may explain why you had to refill so many times. > > -- Randall From jblair1948 at cox.net Tue May 31 06:22:38 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:22:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110531081644.04ba45d0@cox.net> At 10:25 PM 5/30/2011, eric at megageek.com wrote: >Well, after a brief day of not bothering with the new air lines (because I had a >huge tree to remove) I'm back to getting the new air lines squared away. > >When we last left this saga, I had some success with epoxy to seal the bigger >leaks (audible.) > >But, now I'm up against a harder problem. The system has minor leak(s) in it. >It's still usable, but when I test it for pressure, it will bleed down completely in >a few hours. A couple of things you can try: 1. you might want to try addind some die (like for AC system) to the line then connecting air to it and letting the air leak out. This should let the die leak out, and with the glasses and light you should be able to find the leak. 2. I think someone also suggested this try filling the system with water. Then pressurizing the system. The water should leak out where the leaks are. 3. I had mentioned in a previous post that I'd ended up using the epoxy putty on my installation. I think I but a bead/rope of that around every joint. For some reason, a big difference when we do something vs the people that installed the black pipe for my gas logs. They didn't have any of these problems. To check their conintions they used soapy water, and a pressure gauge. Closed off the system, put the pressure gauge on, pressurized the system, and came back in a couple of days. Still holding the pressure. John >My questions are as follows... > >How do you find these minor leaks? I have hundreds of joints and many of >them are barely accessible. I've been using dish soap with water with >only limited success. Is there another or easier way? > >Then there is my idea and I'm wondering if it will work or if there is a >better product out there like this... > >I should be able to introduce a fluid of sorts into the air stream. The >fluid will find its way out of the leaks and clog them up. I was thinking >of using tire slime for this purpose. > >Now, I realize that I have to be careful to let it get all over the lines, >then I need to get it out of the lines before I start using tools. This >shouldn't be a problem. > >Is there a product designed for this? Is there a better way to find/fix >leaks? I'm sure I'm not the first bubba with this issue. > >Thanks! > >Moose >"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational >being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph >Waldo Emerson >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948 at cox.net John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue May 31 06:51:01 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:51:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? In-Reply-To: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> References: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DE4E435.8030009@xxiii.com> On 5/30/2011 11:47 PM, Scott Hall wrote: > Like 3000 p.s.i. high. Like they use to fill scuba tanks. > Is it even feasible? What sort of compressor generates that kind of > pressure? Manufacturing company I used to work for used tanks of compressed nitrogen to pressure test hydraulics before fluid filling. I think it was around 3,000 - 4,000 psi. Pretty sure they got it from the welding supply place, along with the other gas bottles. Just be damn sure you use appropriate pipe, fittings, etc rated to handle it! Jackass maintenance guy at the place used a plumbing grade fitting on one of the test rigs, and it exploded off and nearly killed a guy. Luckily it narrowly missed and embedded itself in the wood roof 25 feet up. Honestly, it's pretty dangerous stuff and I wouldn't want it in my place. -Wayne From vlm at te-motorworks.com Tue May 31 07:16:38 2011 From: vlm at te-motorworks.com (Vincent Marshall) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 06:16:38 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? In-Reply-To: <4DE4E435.8030009@xxiii.com> References: <4DE464E0.4030802@gmail.com> <4DE4E435.8030009@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <3FADCAA7-CC96-464D-B7B5-0610117FAAB4@te-motorworks.com> On May 31, 2011, at 5:51 AM, Wayne wrote: > On 5/30/2011 11:47 PM, Scott Hall wrote: >> Like 3000 p.s.i. high. Like they use to fill scuba tanks. >> Is it even feasible? What sort of compressor generates that kind of >> pressure? > > Manufacturing company I used to work for used tanks of compressed nitrogen to pressure test hydraulics before fluid filling. I think it was around 3,000 - 4,000 psi. Pretty sure they got it from the welding supply place, along with the other gas bottles. Yeah, you can typically get Nitrogen at your welding supply store. I use it to run small air cannons that I need to be portable - the cannons are running at ~ 150 psi, so they will run for a while off of a 3000psi nitrogen bottle. Nitrogen seems to be the cheapest of the inert gasses, or at least was when I priced it, which is why I use it. Wayne is right - I regulated my nitrogen down right at the bottle, but if you're working with the gas at very high pressure, make sure your lines and fittings are rated for it. -vin > Just be damn sure you use appropriate pipe, fittings, etc rated to handle it! Jackass maintenance guy at the place used a plumbing grade fitting on one of the test rigs, and it exploded off and nearly killed a guy. Luckily it narrowly missed and embedded itself in the wood roof 25 feet up. Honestly, it's pretty dangerous stuff and I wouldn't want it in my place. > > -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/vlm at te-motorworks.com From marka at maracing.com Tue May 31 07:18:21 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 09:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, On Mon, 30 May 2011, eric at megageek.com wrote: > But, now I'm up against a harder problem. The system has minor leak(s) > in it. It's still usable, but when I test it for pressure, it will > bleed down completely in a few hours. If it were me, I'd put a valve on the compressor outlet that gets shut off when I'm not out there and call it a day. Mark From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Tue May 31 08:23:24 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:23:24 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HIGH pressure compressed air? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110531142324.UNM6Q.40174.root@cdptpa-web09-z01> There is some kind of regulator mechanism in the gun that reduces the pressure. The paintball doesn't have that much pressure behind it. You want the pressure behind the projectile to be more constant from the first paintball fired to the last paintball fired. But if you picked up some of the really light reservoirs that some of the guns use you would be amazed that they could hold that much pressure. CO2 works fine for some of those applications, except at low temperatures. THere are some competition airguns made for CO2, but the best ones nowadays are using just plain compressed air. > How do they make a paintball gun that works on 5000 PSI air? Wouldn't > it end up being really heavy? How fast are those paintballs going to > go with 5000 PSI behind them? Doesn't the performance decline as the > air is used up? I would think that you could get a lot more shots out > of an equivalent volume of liquified CO2. From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Tue May 31 08:26:33 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:26:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110531142633.ZMOLH.40200.root@cdptpa-web09-z01> My father has a pretty big compressor and tank at his shop, I'd guess at least 100 gal. He shuts the power off to the compressor at night, the next morning he turns it back on and it comes up to pressure pretty quickly. > > But, now I'm up against a harder problem. The system has minor leak(s) > > in it. It's still usable, but when I test it for pressure, it will > > bleed down completely in a few hours. > > If it were me, I'd put a valve on the compressor outlet that gets shut > off when I'm not out there and call it a day. From lspector at gmail.com Tue May 31 07:58:23 2011 From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 09:58:23 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Mark Andy wrote: > If it were me, I'd put a valve on the compressor outlet that gets shut off > when I'm not out there and call it a day. > > Mark > > This is what I did. My system has slow leaks, but not enough that I worry about it. -Larry From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Tue May 31 11:05:53 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 10:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <986492.42517.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a 1" ball valve at the tank outlet that I just open to pressurize the pipes when I use air and close it afterwards. Assuming the leak is not in the tank, this should address the problem, no? Maybe I am missing something here, though... doug _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue May 31 12:47:58 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 11:47:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b2f01cc1fc3$463405c0$d29c1140$@rr.com> > If it were me, I'd put a valve on the compressor outlet that gets shut off > when I'm not out there and call it a day. So what type of remotely operated valve would be appropriate? I don't know much about solenoid valves, but it appears that the inexpensive "piloted" valves always have a pressure drop across the valve, which may not be ideal. And "non-pilot" valves seem rather expensive. -- Randall From marka at maracing.com Tue May 31 21:42:27 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: <0b2f01cc1fc3$463405c0$d29c1140$@rr.com> References: <0b2f01cc1fc3$463405c0$d29c1140$@rr.com> Message-ID: Howdy, On Tue, 31 May 2011, Randall wrote: >> If it were me, I'd put a valve on the compressor outlet that gets shut off >> when I'm not out there and call it a day. > > So what type of remotely operated valve would be appropriate? > > I don't know much about solenoid valves, but it appears that the > inexpensive "piloted" valves always have a pressure drop across the > valve, which may not be ideal. And "non-pilot" valves seem rather > expensive. I have a regular old 3/4" (?? I think?) ball valve on my compressors output. If the compressor is somewhere you can't easily get to it, that obviously isn't going to work. Mark From cavanadd at frontier.com Tue May 31 22:47:15 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:47:15 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE5C453.8040303@frontier.com> Larry Spector wrote: >> > If it were me, I'd put a valve on the compressor outlet that gets shut off >> > when I'm not out there and call it a day. >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > > This is what I did. My system has slow leaks, but not enough that I worry > about it. Me too (or three). I just put a 3/4" ball valve on the tank discharge, and I close it off every evening before I leave the shop. I have QD fittings an most or all of my air lines and they always seem to leak a tiny bit. From jem at milleredp.com Tue May 31 23:50:19 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:50:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] The air saga continues... In-Reply-To: <4DE5C453.8040303@frontier.com> References: <4DE5C453.8040303@frontier.com> Message-ID: <4DE5D31B.3030801@milleredp.com> >>> > If it were me, I'd put a valve on the compressor outlet that gets >>> shut off > Me too (or three). I just put a 3/4" ball valve on the tank discharge, > and I close it off every evening before I leave the shop. I have QD > fittings an most or all of my air lines and they always seem to leak a > tiny bit. Seems there's always going to be something that leaks a little. My experience has been that if you mount the quick-disconnects pointed down or angled below the horizontal they'll corrode and begin to leak if not stick wide-open. I have one in my shop right now that's permanently got a blow-gun stuck in it because I'm too lazy to change it. John.