From fortee9er at yahoo.com Sun Jan 2 10:54:26 2011 From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 09:54:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question Message-ID: <489117.95722.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have non-op project cars, in storage, that I need to move around occasionally. Some years ago I bought two sets of car dollies, from Harbor Freight, but they didn't work as well as I hoped. They do not roll smoothly and require a lot of pushing effort to move the car into position. I have used them on cars weighing 2000-4000lbs and they do work better on the lighter cars but still not what I expected. I still have a need to move cars around and I am looking for an alternative to the wheel dollies. I was wondering if the Go Jack dollies are any better than what I have now. Happy New Year Jorge From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jan 2 12:13:37 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 11:13:37 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question In-Reply-To: <489117.95722.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <489117.95722.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <105901cbaab1$28e460a0$0301a8c0@randall> > Some years ago I bought two sets of car > dollies, from Harbor Freight, but they didn't work as well as > I hoped. They do not roll smoothly and require a lot of > pushing effort to move the car into position. Just curious, did you make any attempt to improve them? The ones I got had significant casting flash on the wheels, some of them would bind even with no load at all and others were out of round. After I had the casters apart to make some adjustments and oil them; my TR3 (which granted is a light car) would literally move from just casual leaning against the car. -- Randall From tvacc at lotusowners.com Sun Jan 2 16:02:24 2011 From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 18:02:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question In-Reply-To: <4E445535F4604D2FBBC4AFE21F856102@amicroinc.local> References: <4E445535F4604D2FBBC4AFE21F856102@amicroinc.local> Message-ID: <47BCC17E4B394729BB212F1069857858@amicroinc.local> Yes, go jacks are fantastic. Have had a set for years. I bought a set of copies for a good friend from one of the major catalogue places and they did not measure up to the go jacks. We sent them back and go the go jacks. I use the go jacks all winter on cars to move them from place to place. One person can spin the car around. Tony Vaccaro LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York) www.lotusowners.com 716-861-1412 This document and any files or e-mail messages attached to it contain data or information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise restricted from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the data or information contained herein or in any of the attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document or transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy, delete or erase this document and all attachments. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jorge Garcia Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 1:16 PM To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question I have non-op project cars, in storage, that I need to move around occasionally. Some years ago I bought two sets of car dollies, from Harbor Freight, but they didn't work as well as I hoped. They do not roll smoothly and require a lot of pushing effort to move the car into position. I have used them on cars weighing 2000-4000lbs and they do work better on the lighter cars but still not what I expected. I still have a need to move cars around and I am looking for an alternative to the wheel dollies. I was wondering if the Go Jack dollies are any better than what I have now. Happy New Year Jorge _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5753 (20110102) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5754 (20110102) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Sun Jan 2 15:58:48 2011 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 16:58:48 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question In-Reply-To: <105901cbaab1$28e460a0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <489117.95722.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>, <105901cbaab1$28e460a0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: I bought a set of these years ago and i'm very pleased with them. Alas they no longer seem to be available http://www.amazon.com/Roll-Master-Vehicle-Dollies-Increase-Useable/dp/B0000AX BNY Might be an example of cheap crap forcing quality out of existence. You get want you pay for... Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com > To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 11:13:37 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question > > > Some years ago I bought two sets of car > > dollies, from Harbor Freight, but they didn't work as well as > > I hoped. They do not roll smoothly and require a lot of > > pushing effort to move the car into position. > > Just curious, did you make any attempt to improve them? The ones I got had > significant casting flash on the wheels, some of them would bind even with > no load at all and others were out of round. After I had the casters apart > to make some adjustments and oil them; my TR3 (which granted is a light car) > would literally move from just casual leaning against the car. > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sun Jan 2 16:55:50 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 17:55:50 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question References: <4E445535F4604D2FBBC4AFE21F856102@amicroinc.local> <47BCC17E4B394729BB212F1069857858@amicroinc.local> Message-ID: one thing that will help here short of spending 400 bucks on go jacks buy some hard plastic, ball bearing wheels for your H.F. dollies... I was very disappointed in the HF as purchased... but I spent about 125.00 for some good wheels and it made a world of difference... john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Vaccaro" To: "'Jorge Garcia'" ; Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question > Yes, go jacks are fantastic. Have had a set for years. > > I bought a set of copies for a good friend from one of the major > catalogue > places and they did not measure up to the go jacks. We sent them back and > go the go jacks. I use the go jacks all winter on cars to move them from > place to place. One person can spin the car around. > > Tony Vaccaro > > LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York) > www.lotusowners.com > 716-861-1412 > > This document and any files or e-mail messages attached to it contain data > or information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise restricted > from > disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the data or information > contained herein or in any of the attachments is strictly prohibited. If > you have received this document or transmission in error, please > immediately > notify the sender and destroy, delete or erase this document and all > attachments. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jorge Garcia > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 1:16 PM > To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Happy New Year and Go Jack question > > I have non-op project cars, in storage, that I need to move around > occasionally. Some years ago I bought two sets of car dollies, from Harbor > Freight, but they didn't work as well as I hoped. They do not roll > smoothly > and require a lot of pushing effort to move the car into position. I have > used them on cars weighing 2000-4000lbs and they do work better on the > lighter cars but still not what I expected. I still have a need to move > cars > around and I am looking for an alternative to the wheel dollies. I was > wondering if the Go Jack dollies are any better than what I have now. > Happy New Year > Jorge > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5753 (20110102) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5754 (20110102) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3354 - Release Date: 01/02/11 From kennedybc at comcast.net Sun Jan 2 18:23:27 2011 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian Kennedy) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 17:23:27 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricating garage door cables Message-ID: I just has a pulley wear through on my garage door opener. When I bought a replacement and a couple of spare cables, I see they recommend lubricating the cables. I've never done that. Does anyone have experience with cable lubrication? I'm wondering if the lubricant might pick up dust and dirt on the exposed cable and to more harm than good. The cables run through rotating pulleys, so there isn't a lot of friction. Brian K. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 20:10:55 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 22:10:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lubricating garage door cables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Brian Kennedy wrote: > I just has a pulley wear through on my garage door opener. When I bought a > replacement and a couple of spare cables, I see they recommend lubricating the > cables. I've never done that. Does anyone have experience with cable > lubrication? I'm wondering if the lubricant might pick up dust and dirt on the > exposed cable and to more harm than good. The cables run through rotating > pulleys, so there isn't a lot of friction. > I don't think I've even heard of anyone lubricating their garage door wire ropes. Typically, they're lubricated to protect the ropes, not the sheaves of blocks. There's lots of friction inside a rope, as the various fibers are forced to move past each other, and there are corrosion problems with steel ropes. lubricant is typically a bunch of oils in a solvent. Solvent allows the oil to get where it's supposed to get, and then evaporates, leaving it there. A real hardware store, or a farm store, or a crane supplier will have something suitable. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sun Jan 2 21:51:57 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 20:51:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] shop lighting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <342543.81161.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey boys, I know we have been through this several times before, but I have a home garage with 3 8ft dual tube fluorescent electronic ballast fixtures that I installed and 3 8ft dual tube fluorescent magnetic ballast fixtures that were here when I arrived. All are T12. The old magnetic ballasts flicker so badly and are so slow to reach operating temperature that I just do not use them. I love the electronic ballast T12's I have and I thought that I should convert the magnetic ballasts in the existing fixtures to electronic, but in pricing out ballasts, it might make more sense to swap the fixtures, but that will be much more work in replacing the fixtures. I also could consider switching to T8's, but I have enough T12 bulbs to last my lifetime, so I am not leaning that way either. My first question is if there is a good/affordable supplier of electronic ballasts for my existing T12 fixtures? My second question is whether it just makes more sense to switch to T8's and new ballasts even though I have a good stock of T12 bulbs? Again, this is in my home garage and will not see a commercial-level of operating hours (I wish, but I have a day job as well). :) Thanks boys... best, shook ____________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 ________________________________ From: David Scheidt To: Brian Kennedy Cc: Shop Talk 'shop-talk' Sent: Sun, January 2, 2011 7:10:55 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Lubricating garage door cables On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Brian Kennedy wrote: > I just has a pulley wear through on my garage door opener. When I bought a > replacement and a couple of spare cables, I see they recommend lubricating the > cables. I've never done that. Does anyone have experience with cable > lubrication? I'm wondering if the lubricant might pick up dust and dirt on the > exposed cable and to more harm than good. The cables run through rotating > pulleys, so there isn't a lot of friction. > I don't think I've even heard of anyone lubricating their garage door wire ropes. Typically, they're lubricated to protect the ropes, not the sheaves of blocks. There's lots of friction inside a rope, as the various fibers are forced to move past each other, and there are corrosion problems with steel ropes. lubricant is typically a bunch of oils in a solvent. Solvent allows the oil to get where it's supposed to get, and then evaporates, leaving it there. A real hardware store, or a farm store, or a crane supplier will have something suitable. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jan 2 22:49:59 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 21:49:59 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] shop lighting In-Reply-To: <342543.81161.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <342543.81161.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002e01cbab0a$0f615210$0301a8c0@randall> > My first question is if there is a good/affordable supplier > of electronic > ballasts for my existing T12 fixtures? You might try going to Home Depot and digging through the pile of ballasts. I had a mag ballast fail last year, and although it wasn't shown on the web site, I found an electronic replacement in the store for about $17. Here's the best price I could find on-line just now: http://usalight.com/b2x60-120-2-lamp-ballast-for-f96-t12-120.html If you like, I'll split an order of 6 with you, to qualify for free shipping. (I work in Torrance.) One other thing to check is whether your fixtures are grounded. Even with our recent cold snap, my mag ballasts only flicker a little more than the electronics, and quit within a few minutes. Tired bulbs can cause flickering problems as well. -- Randall From eric at megageek.com Mon Jan 3 05:26:00 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 07:26:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy Message-ID: OK, I use alot of PEX, copper, and CPVC pipes in my plumbing. I have found the Watts connectors are the best thing since sliced bread (even though they are pricey.) Here is my problem, I can NEVER find them. The only store that sells them around me only gets about 2 a month (I'm serious.) I like to have at least 10 of each on hand at all times. Home depot and Lowes used to carry them, but even though it's on their website, it "store purchase only" and even stores with them listed only have one or two in stock. Websites don't even seem to be able to offer them. Either they only have them in 1" size, or they only carry the straight unions, or them charge an arm and a leg for them. Here is the crazy thing, there seem to be 2 different part numbers for the pieces and some list them as "not for concealed locations" and others say "Approved for concealed, underground and no access panel." The part numbers don't seem to match the code requirements. I'm looking for a source of these connectors that I can by 10 straight unions, 10 elbows, and 4 valves, and 5 tees, all in 1/2OD that are approved for concealed locations. Does anyone know of a good source of these? Here is a link to the Home Depot listing... < http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pipes-Fittings-Valves/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1ZbqpfZ1z114tiZ1z114xd/R-100118014/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 > The part numbers for the straight union seem to be P-600 or PL 3030 Finally, if someone can explain why such a great product is impossible to get a hold of, I'd love to know. 8>) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 3 06:21:45 2011 From: jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net (John) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 08:21:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eric, Try http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Watts-Water-Technology-P-600-Quick-Connect-1 -2-Cts-Union-Connector-7005739.html in Virginia. If not there, go to http://www.thefind.com/ and do a search for the parts you need. I have no interest in either place. You can also do an Amazon search. John -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of eric at megageek.com Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 7:26 AM To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy OK, I use alot of PEX, copper, and CPVC pipes in my plumbing. I have found the Watts connectors are the best thing since sliced bread (even though they are pricey.) Here is my problem, I can NEVER find them. The only store that sells them around me only gets about 2 a month (I'm serious.) I like to have at least 10 of each on hand at all times. Home depot and Lowes used to carry them, but even though it's on their website, it "store purchase only" and even stores with them listed only have one or two in stock. Websites don't even seem to be able to offer them. Either they only have them in 1" size, or they only carry the straight unions, or them charge an arm and a leg for them. Here is the crazy thing, there seem to be 2 different part numbers for the pieces and some list them as "not for concealed locations" and others say "Approved for concealed, underground and no access panel." The part numbers don't seem to match the code requirements. I'm looking for a source of these connectors that I can by 10 straight unions, 10 elbows, and 4 valves, and 5 tees, all in 1/2OD that are approved for concealed locations. Does anyone know of a good source of these? Here is a link to the Home Depot listing... < http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pipes-Fittings-Valves/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zbq pfZ1z114tiZ1z114xd/R-100118014/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&c atalogId=10053 > The part numbers for the straight union seem to be P-600 or PL 3030 Finally, if someone can explain why such a great product is impossible to get a hold of, I'd love to know. 8>) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net From jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 3 06:43:12 2011 From: jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net (John) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 08:43:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For something quicker, try your local RV dealers. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of eric at megageek.com Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 7:26 AM To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy OK, I use alot of PEX, copper, and CPVC pipes in my plumbing. I have found the Watts connectors are the best thing since sliced bread (even though they are pricey.) Here is my problem, I can NEVER find them. The only store that sells them around me only gets about 2 a month (I'm serious.) I like to have at least 10 of each on hand at all times. Home depot and Lowes used to carry them, but even though it's on their website, it "store purchase only" and even stores with them listed only have one or two in stock. Websites don't even seem to be able to offer them. Either they only have them in 1" size, or they only carry the straight unions, or them charge an arm and a leg for them. Here is the crazy thing, there seem to be 2 different part numbers for the pieces and some list them as "not for concealed locations" and others say "Approved for concealed, underground and no access panel." The part numbers don't seem to match the code requirements. I'm looking for a source of these connectors that I can by 10 straight unions, 10 elbows, and 4 valves, and 5 tees, all in 1/2OD that are approved for concealed locations. Does anyone know of a good source of these? Here is a link to the Home Depot listing... < http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pipes-Fittings-Valves/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zbq pfZ1z114tiZ1z114xd/R-100118014/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&c atalogId=10053 > The part numbers for the straight union seem to be P-600 or PL 3030 Finally, if someone can explain why such a great product is impossible to get a hold of, I'd love to know. 8>) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net From kvacek at ameritech.net Mon Jan 3 09:24:03 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 10:24:03 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01cbab62$a315f120$e941d360$@ameritech.net> Have you tried going directly to Watts ? MY RO system is a Watts and I find that buying directly from them is economical and easy. There's a good website but I usually just call them. The knowledgeable operators clear up any questions, and they get the order shipped quickly. Karl -----Original Message----- From: eric at megageek.com Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy OK, I use alot of PEX, copper, and CPVC pipes in my plumbing. I have found the Watts connectors are the best thing since sliced bread (even though they are pricey.) Here is my problem, I can NEVER find them. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 20:03:34 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 22:03:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] shop lighting In-Reply-To: <002e01cbab0a$0f615210$0301a8c0@randall> References: <342543.81161.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002e01cbab0a$0f615210$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Randall wrote: >> My first question is if there is a good/affordable supplier >> of electronic >> ballasts for my existing T12 fixtures? > > You might try going to Home Depot and digging through the pile of ballasts. > I had a mag ballast fail last year, and although it wasn't shown on the web > site, I found an electronic replacement in the store for about $17. > > Here's the best price I could find on-line just now: > http://usalight.com/b2x60-120-2-lamp-ballast-for-f96-t12-120.html > If you like, I'll split an order of 6 with you, to qualify for free > shipping. B (I work in Torrance.) > > One other thing to check is whether your fixtures are grounded. B Even with > our recent cold snap, my mag ballasts only flicker a little more than the > electronics, and quit within a few minutes. B Tired bulbs can cause > flickering problems as well. > While dying tubes can flicker a lot (and often at mains frequency, which most people can notice, if one of the cathodes is worn out more than the other), some magnetic ballasts flicker more than others. And some people notice the flicker more than others. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From eric at megageek.com Wed Jan 5 09:56:35 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:56:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters Message-ID: OK, I'm looking to buy a "thumb" for my back hoe. While it is expensive to buy, I realized that this is an easy piece to make, failing one thing... I don't have a good way to cut heavy steel. (1/4" plate or better) I don't know much about plasma cutters, but I'm willing to learn. With the cost of this thumb, I could justify getting a good cutter and making my own. What do you need for a cutter besides the torch? Are they hard to learn? Any special skills I need? I'm just gathering information at this time. So I'm looking for any and all suggestions on buying one and what I need to do to learn it. Thanks. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From pat at hornesystemstx.com Wed Jan 5 11:35:58 2011 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 12:35:58 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D24BA0E.6070402@hornesystemstx.com> I always look into buying new equipment so I can do a job myself when it is time to buy something, or have someone else make something for me.I bought a MIG welder, but borrowed a plasma cutter from a friend to cut a bunch of 1/2" plate for a set of stairs I was building. From the beginning it worked fine. The biggest challenge for me was to cut at a stead rate along the line I wanted to cut. All that is needed is electricity and air to run the thing. There are expendable tip parts, but they are cheap. If you think you may need to cut thicker material, you may want to move up to a bigger machine. If this is something that you don't think you will need again. you might want to check with your local welding supplier to see if they have units for rent. Peace, Pat Thusly spake eric at megageek.com, On 1/5/2011 10:56 AM: > OK, I'm looking to buy a "thumb" for my back hoe. While it is expensive > to buy, I realized that this is an easy piece to make, failing one > thing... I don't have a good way to cut heavy steel. (1/4" plate or > better) > > I don't know much about plasma cutters, but I'm willing to learn. With > the cost of this thumb, I could justify getting a good cutter and making > my own. > > What do you need for a cutter besides the torch? Are they hard to learn? > Any special skills I need? > > I'm just gathering information at this time. So I'm looking for any and > all suggestions on buying one and what I need to do to learn it. > > Thanks. > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From jniolon at bham.rr.com Wed Jan 5 11:41:09 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 12:41:09 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Moose, plasma cutters are handier than a shirt pocket... you can buy cheap and expensive... I have an old Plasmark with a transformer...that will handle up to a 1/4". it's as big as a dog house and weighs a ton (but it's on wheels) new ones have an inverter and are lighter and cheaper... check ebay or craigslists for those... basically you need the machine and DRY compressed air... the tips are considered 'consumables' and they do make drag tips so the gap is constant... it's basically a point and click operation... straight edges make it nice doing long straight cuts... cutting hose length is important... more is better 15-20' is nice. if it's less than 10' you can't move around much without moving the unit. between $600 and a grand you can find one that will cut clean thru 1/2 and 'hack thru' larger diameters... ifn' it were me, I'd look for a used unit of the old style... but Miller/Lincoln/China make some really affordable portable units that will serve you well in a 'home owners' mode... high production work needs the big boys name on it. john ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 10:56 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters > OK, I'm looking to buy a "thumb" for my back hoe. While it is expensive > to buy, I realized that this is an easy piece to make, failing one > thing... I don't have a good way to cut heavy steel. (1/4" plate or > better) > > I don't know much about plasma cutters, but I'm willing to learn. With > the cost of this thumb, I could justify getting a good cutter and making > my own. > > What do you need for a cutter besides the torch? Are they hard to learn? > Any special skills I need? > > I'm just gathering information at this time. So I'm looking for any and > all suggestions on buying one and what I need to do to learn it. > > Thanks. > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3359 - Release Date: 01/04/11 From tputland at charter.net Wed Jan 5 12:14:17 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:14:17 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air line driers---WAS Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110105141417.FJNDH.14011798.root@mp17> Since the subject of "dry air" has come up, let's talk about compressor line driers. At some point I would like to learn how to paint my own cars, but for now, I am not in need of a line drier that good/nice/expensive. What I really need right now (well, this coming spring/summer) is a fairly affordable line drier for my compressor. I have a 80 gallon Porter Cable unit that works well enough for what I have used it for so far. Recommendations with web site links would be great! I live in Southern WI so we get pretty humid here in the summer. Thanks! Tim Dairyland Datsuns ---- john niolon wrote: ============= Moose, plasma cutters are handier than a shirt pocket... you can buy cheap and expensive... I have an old Plasmark with a transformer...that will handle up to a 1/4". it's as big as a dog house and weighs a ton (but it's on wheels) new ones have an inverter and are lighter and cheaper... check ebay or craigslists for those... basically you need the machine and DRY compressed air... the tips are considered 'consumables' and they do make drag tips so the gap is constant... it's basically a point and click operation... straight edges make it nice doing long straight cuts... cutting hose length is important... more is better 15-20' is nice. if it's less than 10' you can't move around much without moving the unit. between $600 and a grand you can find one that will cut clean thru 1/2 and 'hack thru' larger diameters... ifn' it were me, I'd look for a used unit of the old style... but Miller/Lincoln/China make some really affordable portable units that will serve you well in a 'home owners' mode... high production work needs the big boys name on it. john ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 10:56 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters > OK, I'm looking to buy a "thumb" for my back hoe. While it is expensive > to buy, I realized that this is an easy piece to make, failing one > thing... I don't have a good way to cut heavy steel. (1/4" plate or > better) > > I don't know much about plasma cutters, but I'm willing to learn. With > the cost of this thumb, I could justify getting a good cutter and making > my own. > > What do you need for a cutter besides the torch? Are they hard to learn? > Any special skills I need? > > I'm just gathering information at this time. So I'm looking for any and > all suggestions on buying one and what I need to do to learn it. > > Thanks. > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3359 - Release Date: 01/04/11 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From Gil.Fuqua at cci-ir.com Wed Jan 5 12:24:35 2011 From: Gil.Fuqua at cci-ir.com (Gil Fuqua) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 13:24:35 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2968A0FF9B6E7A4EB08A6B3FED65DBC664C084@bnaexg01.cci-ir.com> A plasma cutter is really handy. They are easy to use with a very short learning curve. The metal cut gets hot, but not nearly as hot as cutting with a gas torch. I have used a wooden yard stick and other pieces of wood as a straight edge for plasma cutting and the wood was only lightly charred. You would burn down the garage if you tried that with a gas torch (or at least I would). The new models with inverters are much lighter than the old ones and work great. Try Craigslist for a good used one. Miller makes a nice rolling nose piece that fits other brands. It allows you to pre-position the cutting tip above the metal at a precise distance and then smoothly drag the tip across the surface being cut. You can use almost anything for a straight edge against one of the rollers since it is several inches from the cut line. Finally, buy one rated at more than you plan to cut. It will work better than a smaller one that might take multiple passes and not cut as smoothly as the larger one. Since plasma cutters have a variable output, you can easily fine tune them from cutting very thin material too very thick, just by changing the control. Gil Nashville -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of eric at megageek.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 10:57 AM To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters OK, I'm looking to buy a "thumb" for my back hoe. While it is expensive to buy, I realized that this is an easy piece to make, failing one thing... I don't have a good way to cut heavy steel. (1/4" plate or better) I don't know much about plasma cutters, but I'm willing to learn. With the cost of this thumb, I could justify getting a good cutter and making my own. What do you need for a cutter besides the torch? Are they hard to learn? Any special skills I need? I'm just gathering information at this time. So I'm looking for any and all suggestions on buying one and what I need to do to learn it. Thanks. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gil.fuqua at cci-ir.com From vlm at te-motorworks.com Wed Jan 5 12:38:18 2011 From: vlm at te-motorworks.com (Vincent Marshall) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:38:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D503E4B-C27A-4513-8C6D-B8B77D3FE52C@te-motorworks.com> Plasma cutters are incredibly useful, especially for thin material and for aluminum in general. They're also useful for making sort of surgical cuts to undo something you've tacked together and later messed up. I have a Miller Spectrum something or other which I use all the time. But, for thicker steel like the 1/4" steel plate you mention, and definitely for 1/2" and thicker steel plate, you'll find that you can do an entirely passable job with an oxy-fuel cutting torch and some practice. The gas cutting setup will cost you a lot less than a decently sized plasma cutter. To answer your question though - all you need are sources of electricity and compressed air, the plasma unit itself, and some safety gear. They are very easy to use. You'll be up to speed in minutes. -vin On Jan 5, 2011, at 11:56 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, I'm looking to buy a "thumb" for my back hoe. While it is expensive > to buy, I realized that this is an easy piece to make, failing one > thing... I don't have a good way to cut heavy steel. (1/4" plate or > better) > > I don't know much about plasma cutters, but I'm willing to learn. With > the cost of this thumb, I could justify getting a good cutter and making > my own. > > What do you need for a cutter besides the torch? Are they hard to learn? > Any special skills I need? > > I'm just gathering information at this time. So I'm looking for any and > all suggestions on buying one and what I need to do to learn it. > > Thanks. > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/vlm at te-motorworks.com From arvidj at visi.com Wed Jan 5 12:39:49 2011 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 13:39:49 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Based on my experience with my ESAB 875 plasma cutter ... capable of cutting 7/8 plate and 1 1/4 inch severing ... the term used when they mean "you may not like the quality of the cut but you will end up with two pieces of metal from your single plate of steel" ... an acute case of machine overkill for what I use it for but at least you know what the marketing terms mean ... all you will need is: A plasma cutter, which should come with a torch, an appropriate electrical outlet and clean DRY air. Note that you can trade the DRY air off for "any old air" and then suffer from bad cuts, very high consumable costs, frustration, money, etc., but it is better to simply ensure you have clean dry air. After that is is dead simple. The torch runs cool enough that you can make a template out of hardboard or plywood in the exotic shape you want to cut out and then run the side of the torch around the template. Assuming you practiced for about a minute before your very first try ... to get a sense of what the proper torch speed should be for the material you are cutting ... there is very little dross and very little clean up. With a little practice you end up making "ready to weld" cuts rather than "cut, grind, then weld". Even the bevel can be cut so you can skip that part of the grinding also. Did I mention that you need clean dry air? Just so you are not paranoid about that, I have a compressor with the usual filters and oil and moisture removal stuff on it that feeds everything, and then I put one of these http://www.motorguard.com/air_2_2.html filters on right before the plasma cutter. About $60 for the filter but the last time I bought consumables for the torch it was over $100 so it doesn't take much time to recoup the filter costs. I also have a oxy-acetylene torch set but the only reason I bring it out now is if the electrical cord to the plasma cutter will allow me to reach what I need to cut. And to that point I move a most everything to be within reach of the cord just so I don't need to break out the gas axe ;-} Arvid -----Original Message----- From: eric at megageek.com Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 10:56 AM To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters OK, I'm looking to buy a "thumb" for my back hoe. While it is expensive to buy, I realized that this is an easy piece to make, failing one thing... I don't have a good way to cut heavy steel. (1/4" plate or better) I don't know much about plasma cutters, but I'm willing to learn. With the cost of this thumb, I could justify getting a good cutter and making my own. What do you need for a cutter besides the torch? Are they hard to learn? Any special skills I need? I'm just gathering information at this time. So I'm looking for any and all suggestions on buying one and what I need to do to learn it. Thanks. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/arvidj at visi.com From jem at milleredp.com Wed Jan 5 13:20:59 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 12:20:59 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: <9D503E4B-C27A-4513-8C6D-B8B77D3FE52C@te-motorworks.com> References: <9D503E4B-C27A-4513-8C6D-B8B77D3FE52C@te-motorworks.com> Message-ID: <4D24D2AB.5030808@milleredp.com> On 1/5/2011 11:38 AM, Vincent Marshall wrote: > Plasma cutters are incredibly useful, especially for thin material and for > aluminum in general. Tools are great, but what I've found most useful lately is spending enough time with Solidworks to get good enough at drawing up what I want and spitting out a DXF to send to the local waterjet and laser-cutting shop... John. From ronnie.day at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 13:39:32 2011 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:39:32 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air line driers---WAS Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: <20110105141417.FJNDH.14011798.root@mp17> References: <20110105141417.FJNDH.14011798.root@mp17> Message-ID: > Tim > Since the subject of "dry air" has come up, let's talk about compressor line driers. At some point I would like to learn how to paint my own cars, but for now, I am not in need of a line drier that good/nice/expensive. > > What I really need right now (well, this coming spring/summer) is a fairly affordable line drier for my compressor. I have a 80 gallon Porter Cable unit that works well enough for what I have used it for so far. > > Recommendations with web site links would be great! I live in Southern WI so we get pretty humid here in the summer. > TP Tools has some good info on setting up air systems. Here's (http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf) their basic system layout. Ron From jblair1948 at cox.net Wed Jan 5 13:40:21 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 15:40:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air line driers---WAS Plasma cutters Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110105154004.04dc06c8@cox.net> At 02:14 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote: >Since the subject of "dry air" has come up, let's talk about compressor line >driers. At some point I would like to learn how to paint my own cars, but for >now, I am not in need of a line drier that good/nice/expensive. > >What I really need right now (well, this coming spring/summer) is a fairly >affordable line drier for my compressor. I have a 80 gallon Porter Cable unit >that works well enough for what I have used it for so far. > >Recommendations with web site links would be great! I live in Southern WI so >we get pretty humid here in the summer. Tim, As for a web site, check out: http://www.tptools.com/lp2/Tech_Notes.html and inparticular: http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf If you check out my article on media plasting: http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/blasting/mediablast.html You'll want your dryer away from the compressor output a ways. Otherwise the air is moving so quickly at the output connection there is NO time (chance) for any of the moisture to be condenced out of the air. So I made a copper cooling coil (which is what is in the bucket) by coiling the copper tubing around a 2 L coke bottle. I can fill the bucket with water (and even add a frozen water filled 2L plastic coke bottle) to help cool the air coming out of the compressor. Then you my dryer is attached to the left hand back 2x4 of my work bench. Hope this helps. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From vlm at te-motorworks.com Wed Jan 5 14:02:32 2011 From: vlm at te-motorworks.com (Vincent Marshall) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:02:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters In-Reply-To: <4D24D2AB.5030808@milleredp.com> References: <9D503E4B-C27A-4513-8C6D-B8B77D3FE52C@te-motorworks.com> <4D24D2AB.5030808@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <1E1F794B-70E0-4328-B0AA-E9A5CD4F7544@te-motorworks.com> Truth. Ever since my friend built a CNC router / plasma table, I've spent a lot of time grousing about doing work that robots could be doing for me. -vin On Jan 5, 2011, at 3:20 PM, John Miller wrote: > On 1/5/2011 11:38 AM, Vincent Marshall wrote: >> Plasma cutters are incredibly useful, especially for thin material and for >> aluminum in general. > > Tools are great, but what I've found most useful lately is spending enough time with Solidworks to get good enough at drawing up what I want and spitting out a DXF to send to the local waterjet and laser-cutting shop... > > John. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/vlm at te-motorworks.com From eric at megageek.com Wed Jan 5 16:06:43 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:06:43 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters (need help picking it out now) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I've decided to get a plasma cutter for sure. I am figuring I can budget up to $900 for one. The problem, when I look on Craigslist, there are tons out there. Are there any brands to stay away from? Is there anything that I should look for if buying used? Here is one that caught my eye... It's a 3 in one unit. Does anyone know if this is a buy or a POS? I like the idea of the Miller Spectrum. 625 X-TREME. It says it can do 5/8th (and has a video to show it.) Is this too 'light duty'? I do like the automatic settings. But the price is a little high unless I find a used one. This one REALLY caught my eye. The price is amazing... But the one that really seems to be a good deal is... Note, I don't have a TIG welder, so it might be nice to get a combo unit. Of course, I have to also consider the HF one... < http://www.harborfreight.com/230-volt-inverter-plasma-cutter-with-digital-dis play-95136.html > But that one seems light (only 1/2" cut) So, what's the wisdom here have to say? What would you do? Are their units out there I should be looking at? Thanks again. I hope to buy the unit tomorrow if I can. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From james.f.juhas at snet.net Wed Jan 5 20:09:10 2011 From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (Jim Juhas) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 22:09:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutters (need help picking it out now) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D253256.4020507@snet.net> When I bought mine, I decided to stay with popular name brands and bought a used Hypertherm Powermax 350. I wanted something that I knew my local dealers could support for parts and consumables. I was afraid to go the "combination" route, but then, I already had mig, tig and stick welders as well as torches. On 1/5/2011 6:06 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, I've decided to get a plasma cutter for sure. I am figuring I can > budget up to $900 for one. > > The problem, when I look on Craigslist, there are tons out there. Are > there any brands to stay away from? Is there anything that I should look > for if buying used? > > Here is one that caught my eye... > > > > It's a 3 in one unit. Does anyone know if this is a buy or a POS? > > I like the idea of the Miller Spectrum. 625 X-TREME. It says it can do > 5/8th (and has a video to show it.) Is this too 'light duty'? I do like > the automatic settings. But the price is a little high unless I find a > used one. > > This one REALLY caught my eye. The price is amazing... > > > > But the one that really seems to be a good deal is... > > > > Note, I don't have a TIG welder, so it might be nice to get a combo unit. > > Of course, I have to also consider the HF one... > < > http://www.harborfreight.com/230-volt-inverter-plasma-cutter-with-digital-dis > play-95136.html > But that one seems light (only 1/2" cut) > > So, what's the wisdom here have to say? What would you do? Are their > units out there I should be looking at? > > Thanks again. I hope to buy the unit tomorrow if I can. > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/james.f.juhas at snet.net > > -- [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of james_f_juhas.vcf] From ronnie.day at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 10:04:40 2011 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 11:04:40 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Audiovox CC Message-ID: Several years ago I installed an Audiovox CSS-100 (I think) cruise control on our '93 GMC PU. It worked fine for some time and then just quit engaging. It's getting power and I can turn it on and off. I checked all of the voltages in the T/S section of the (limited) manual and they're all where the list says they should be. I have done some research and will double check the grounds, but I figured it couldn't hurt to throw the question out to this crew. TIA, Ron From tputland at charter.net Thu Jan 6 10:51:19 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 9:51:19 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] car dolly replacement casters Message-ID: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> Someone recently mentioned having replaced the casters on their car dolly. I need to do the same to a set I bought that turned out to be even cheaper quality than they cost, and that is really saying something. I guess you get what you (don't) pay for. Anyway, I would prefer to not go to home depot or HB as I want to get high quality casters that will last. What/where have people bought please? Thanks! Tim Dairyland Datsuns From strovato at optonline.net Thu Jan 6 11:43:28 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:43:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] car dolly replacement casters In-Reply-To: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> References: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> Message-ID: <0LEM009HQ6P59200@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I found this place that targets your exact situation: http://www.tireskate.com/castersforchinese.php I haven't bought them, so I can't give them a first hand endorsement. -Steve At 12:51 PM 1/6/2011, Tim wrote: >Someone recently mentioned having replaced the casters on their car >dolly. I need to do the same to a set I bought that turned out to be >even cheaper quality than they cost, and that is really saying >something. I guess you get what you (don't) pay for. > >Anyway, I would prefer to not go to home depot or HB as I want to >get high quality casters that will last. > >What/where have people bought please? From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Jan 6 11:43:59 2011 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 12:43:59 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Audiovox CC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D260D6F.1070807@hornesystemstx.com> Is the break pedal switch working? IF it uses the brake light switch to sense brake activation, the voltage should be zero and go high when the brakes are applied. If the controller was a universal controller that works with automatic and manual transmissions, check that the wiring for the clutch switch is as it should be - normally closed, with clutch activation opening the circuit. Can you send me a copy of the wiring drawing? Peace, Pat Thusly spake Ronnie Day, On 1/6/2011 11:04 AM: > Several years ago I installed an Audiovox CSS-100 (I think) cruise > control on our '93 GMC PU. It worked fine for some time and then just > quit engaging. It's getting power and I can turn it on and off. I > checked all of the voltages in the T/S section of the (limited) manual > and they're all where the list says they should be. I have done some > research and will double check the grounds, but I figured it couldn't > hurt to throw the question out to this crew. > > TIA, > Ron > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From jniolon at bham.rr.com Thu Jan 6 12:28:21 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 13:28:21 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] car dolly replacement casters In-Reply-To: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> References: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> Message-ID: Hi Tim... it was probably me... I replaced the sorry HF cast wheels with some from Grainger... hard plastic 3" I think with ball or roller bearings... (it's been a few years) here's a link to some possibilities... I'll look tonite and see if I can find a number or name on the ones I have... they are all under my truck right now ! Wheel, 4 In - Caster Wheels - Casters and Wheels - Material Handling : Grainger Industrial Supply http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ERWAGNER-Caster-Wheel-1ZPC9?Pid=search more later john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: "ShopTalk" Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 11:51 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] car dolly replacement casters > Someone recently mentioned having replaced the casters on their car dolly. > I need to do the same to a set I bought that turned out to be even cheaper > quality than they cost, and that is really saying something. I guess you > get what you (don't) pay for. > > Anyway, I would prefer to not go to home depot or HB as I want to get high > quality casters that will last. > > What/where have people bought please? > > Thanks! > > Tim > Dairyland Datsuns > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3363 - Release Date: 01/06/11 From burdickm at mindspring.com Thu Jan 6 12:42:36 2011 From: burdickm at mindspring.com (Michael Burdick) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 14:42:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] car dolly replacement casters In-Reply-To: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> References: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> Message-ID: I have purchased casters from the following outfit and have been happy with what I received: http://www.castercity.com/ It was for different applications though so I can't speak to the "what" in your question. NFI. Hope this helps, Mike Burdick Durham NC On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Tim wrote: > > > What/where have people bought please? > > Thanks! > > Tim > Dairyland Datsuns From tvacc at lotusowners.com Thu Jan 6 13:39:14 2011 From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:39:14 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] car dolly replacement casters In-Reply-To: <0LEM009HQ6P59200@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> <0LEM009HQ6P59200@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <5233827EF5E24B85A9238AE2160CEA40@amicroinc.local> If you have a tractor supply near you. I bought a set of casters from them and I was very happy with the quality. Tony Vaccaro LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York) www.lotusowners.com 716-861-1412 This document and any files or e-mail messages attached to it contain data or information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise restricted from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the data or information contained herein or in any of the attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document or transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy, delete or erase this document and all attachments. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Trovato Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 1:43 PM To: Tim; ShopTalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] car dolly replacement casters I found this place that targets your exact situation: http://www.tireskate.com/castersforchinese.php I haven't bought them, so I can't give them a first hand endorsement. -Steve At 12:51 PM 1/6/2011, Tim wrote: >Someone recently mentioned having replaced the casters on their car >dolly. I need to do the same to a set I bought that turned out to be >even cheaper quality than they cost, and that is really saying >something. I guess you get what you (don't) pay for. > >Anyway, I would prefer to not go to home depot or HB as I want to >get high quality casters that will last. > >What/where have people bought please? _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5765 (20110106) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5765 (20110106) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 14:48:54 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 16:48:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] car dolly replacement casters In-Reply-To: <0LEM009HQ6P59200@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <20110106125120.F9QTF.1987149.root@mp13> <0LEM009HQ6P59200@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > I found this place that targets your exact situation: > > http://www.tireskate.com/castersforchinese.php > > I haven't bought them, so I can't give them a first hand endorsement. Seems rather Procrustean! the dollies I've looked at have used a threaded stem caster. It should be no problem to find a stem caster of the right size. Last time I bought casters, we went to a local warehouse equipment place. They do conveyor rollers, and stuff like that. They asked wheel size, mounting style and measurement, what sort of floor they were on, and sold us something suitable. They're even rebuildable. Weren't cheap, though. McMaster, Grainger, et al all sell casters, and I suspect they're off good quality (and they'll tell you what's junk, if you want junk.) You want wheels with bearings, not just plain sleeves, and each should be about a third the capacity of the dolly. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mbarre at juno.com Thu Jan 6 15:13:45 2011 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 22:13:45 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Audiovox CC Message-ID: <20110106.171345.27408.0@webmail20.vgs.untd.com> Years ago I had installed an aftermarket speed control on a 78 280Z. It worked great but a few times I problems when the sensor that detected the magnets I had attached to the drive shaft bot moved out of alignment. I imagine losing a magnet(s) from the drive shaft would cause a problem as well. Matt ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Pat Horne To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Audiovox CC Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 12:43:59 -0600 Is the break pedal switch working? IF it uses the brake light switch to sense brake activation, the voltage should be zero and go high when the brakes are applied. If the controller was a universal controller that works with automatic and manual transmissions, check that the wiring for the clutch switch is as it should be - normally closed, with clutch activation opening the circuit. Can you send me a copy of the wiring drawing? Peace, Pat Thusly spake Ronnie Day, On 1/6/2011 11:04 AM: > Several years ago I installed an Audiovox CSS-100 (I think) cruise > control on our '93 GMC PU. It worked fine for some time and then just > quit engaging. It's getting power and I can turn it on and off. I > checked all of the voltages in the T/S section of the (limited) manual > and they're all where the list says they should be. I have done some > research and will double check the grounds, but I figured it couldn't > hurt to throw the question out to this crew. > > TIA, > Ron > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mbarre at juno.com From ejrussell at mebtel.net Thu Jan 6 20:12:54 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 22:12:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Audiovox CC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5BFF047DA2F141B6BE9AAF254D182831@EricJRussellPC> A couple of things to try. 1) Make note of the positions of the dip switches then move them all off/on/off/on then return them to their original positions. The theory is that might clean an iffy electrical contact in the tiny dip switches. B) check for vacuum leaks & that the vacuum line check valve is not stuck closed. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronnie Day" To: "Shop Talk List" Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 12:04 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Audiovox CC > Several years ago I installed an Audiovox CSS-100 (I think) cruise > control on our '93 GMC PU. It worked fine for some time and then just > quit engaging. It's getting power and I can turn it on and off. I > checked all of the voltages in the T/S section of the (limited) manual > and they're all where the list says they should be. I have done some > research and will double check the grounds, but I figured it couldn't > hurt to throw the question out to this crew. > > TIA, > Ron From fortee9er at yahoo.com Thu Jan 6 20:35:37 2011 From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 19:35:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Caster weight capacity Message-ID: <198728.80612.qm@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> My cars range in weight from less than a ton to over two tons. Assuming that 60% of the car's weight is in the front and the casters should be suitable for my heaviest vehicle - 4500lbs - then 4500*.60/8= 337.5lbs per front caster. Does this method of determining the weight capacity of the casters make sense to you guys or are there other things I should consider? Thanks Jorge From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Thu Jan 6 22:07:36 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 23:07:36 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Caster weight capacity In-Reply-To: <198728.80612.qm@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <198728.80612.qm@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D269F98.8030700@tx.rr.com> In a perfect world you have a good plan. Depending on the construction of the casters and the framework that they are attached to, and the levelness of your floor, the actual numbers might be close or might not be close. For instance if you have small depressions in your floor and a set of 4 casters rolls over a depression, you might have 3 of the 4 wheels, maybe even 2 of the 4 wheels, carrying all of the load for that corner of the car. Now if your floor has large depressions, the entire set of casters rolls into the depression which allows the spring on that wheel to extend. This puts more load on the other front wheel of the car. So worst case you could have most of the load of the front 2 wheels of the car on 2 casters. So basically you have to determine how much these factors could influence your situation and apply whatever additional safety factor you think is appropriate. > My cars range in weight from less than a ton to over two tons. Assuming that 60% of the car's weight is in the front and the casters should be suitable for my heaviest vehicle - 4500lbs - then 4500*.60/8= 337.5lbs per front caster. > Does this method of determining the weight capacity of the casters make sense to you guys or are there other things I should consider? From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 7 05:37:13 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 07:37:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma cutter, the trigger is pulled. Message-ID: OK, after reading everything I could online about plasma cutters, talking to about 5 guys 'in the biz' about them, and sleeping on it, I finally pulled the trigger on what I think is the best unit. Here is what I went with... < http://www.amazon.com/RAMSOND-CUT50DY-Voltage-Inverter-SHIPPING/dp/B001OHTQO4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294404210&sr=8-1 > Besides hating the color, everything else is a win. (Price, size, fexiblity, capacity, reveiws.) I was worried about ordering the consumables, but the website has a great package of them for next to nothing. Once I find out if this works well, I'll just buy a ton of them and don't worry if the company goes away. That way, I should have years of use and if I can't get more in a decade or so, I'll buy a laser gun or whatever technology they have then. I'm not buying the "cuts 3/4" and severes 1" " rating on their website, but I think it should be good enough for 1/2" FWIW, it was one of the only ones that I could find all positive reveiws about (there is one negative one, but it sound like either his unit is bad or he is bad.) I'll post my findings when I get it if anyone is interested. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 7 06:09:31 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 08:09:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] 20% off at harbor freight Message-ID: I just placed an order for a cart for the cutter and I found a 20% off coupon for harbor freight. I thought I'd share it in case anyone wanted to use it. It's code is 51610210 I can email any of you the .PDF file so you can print it out and use it in the store if you want. I was on the phone to order and was never asked for the code. FWIW, I think that HF online ordering system is a rip off. It NEVER accepts gift cards and tells you every coupon code or discount code is invalid. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From tputland at charter.net Fri Jan 7 07:21:41 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 6:21:41 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] 20% off at harbor freight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110107092141.W2S1X.638272.root@mp12> As an FYI....I see this (20%) coupon just about every week in the sunday paper coupon inserts--usually included with some freebie offer. I have also seen it many times in the two car magazines I get. Tim Dairyland Datsuns ---- eric at megageek.com wrote: ============= I just placed an order for a cart for the cutter and I found a 20% off coupon for harbor freight. I thought I'd share it in case anyone wanted to use it. It's code is 51610210 I can email any of you the .PDF file so you can print it out and use it in the store if you want. I was on the phone to order and was never asked for the code. FWIW, I think that HF online ordering system is a rip off. It NEVER accepts gift cards and tells you every coupon code or discount code is invalid. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From 57healey at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 08:16:14 2011 From: 57healey at gmail.com (57healey at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:16:14 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] 20% off at harbor freight In-Reply-To: <20110107092141.W2S1X.638272.root@mp12> References: <20110107092141.W2S1X.638272.root@mp12> Message-ID: A 25% coupon was out there last week. That was the best I have seen in a while. I used to love the old days when the stores would let you use them on discounted merchandise even though the coupon said not to. They finally got wise and stopped that. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Tim Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 6:21:41 To: ; Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] 20% off at harbor freight As an FYI....I see this (20%) coupon just about every week in the sunday paper coupon inserts--usually included with some freebie offer. I have also seen it many times in the two car magazines I get. Tim Dairyland Datsuns ---- eric at megageek.com wrote: ============= I just placed an order for a cart for the cutter and I found a 20% off coupon for harbor freight. I thought I'd share it in case anyone wanted to use it. It's code is 51610210 I can email any of you the .PDF file so you can print it out and use it in the store if you want. I was on the phone to order and was never asked for the code. FWIW, I think that HF online ordering system is a rip off. It NEVER accepts gift cards and tells you every coupon code or discount code is invalid. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/57healey at gmail.com From bspidell at comcast.net Fri Jan 7 09:11:06 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 16:11:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] 20% off at harbor freight In-Reply-To: <20110107160248.E64B518765A@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <126040394.850228.1294416666347.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Have heard that the bricks-and-mortar HF and the online HF are run by different members of the same family and, like a lot of families, they don't always see eye-to-eye (think there's been some legal wrangling in the past). That may also be why the stores and the website have different prices and different stuff on sale at any given time. Have also found that if you want the discount offered in the paper flyer you can get it by ordering over the phone. Often, the phone sales people won't be aware of the sale prices, but in the spirit of helpfulness I am more than happy to inform them (may work for coupons, too, but don't know for sure). bs -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ... FWIW, I think that HF online ordering system is a rip off. It NEVER accepts gift cards and tells you every coupon code or discount code is invalid. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jan 7 11:03:49 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:03:49 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: 20% off at harbor freight In-Reply-To: References: <20110107160248.E64B518765A@autox.team.net> <126040394.850228.1294416666347.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Also, their 20% off coupons are apparently no longer valid on generators, welders, and other popular expensive items. In fact, the local store had a sign reminding people of this fact, stuck right next to the welder display. Doug From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jan 7 11:31:06 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:31:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question Message-ID: I am interested in getting a TIG welder (the welder of a Jedi Knight, not as clumsy or random as a MIG), mostly for auto body work. Has anybody actually tried the HF 98233 TIG welder, which is on sale for $349? This model is a step up from their bargain-basement $239 TIG welder- it has HF start and adjustable gas post-flow, and allegedly has 165 Amps output. Another possibility is for me to take the high road, and spend about $1700 on a Miller Diversion 180, which would give me AC capability and 120-240 volt operation (as well as a quality tool I can be proud to own for a long time). But spending that much would be rough on my budget and domestic tranquility... I don't to start another generic "which TIG" or "HF is junk" thread- I've already read several of those on other message boards... I'm more interested in any first-hand experience with the HF welder (or the Diversion). BTW, an older used transformer unit isn't really feasible- they are just too heavy, and use too much electricity. I have a 240V 30-amp circuit available, which is normally running my compressor. Thanks, Doug From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jan 7 13:23:59 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:23:59 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question In-Reply-To: <20110107.142631.2435.3@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> References: <20110107.142631.2435.3@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Yes, I noticed the TIG/Plasma combos. They look attractive, but I have always managed to cut stuff reasonably well with saws, zizz wheels, etc. A plasma cutter would be neat to use, but it seems more like a time-saver than something that fundamentally improves the quality or sophistication of the work that you can accomplish. They also make an AC/DC TIG/Plasma/Stick machine, but it needs 220, and it's a lot of money to put into an imported tool... Doug On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Matt wrote: > Doug, > I am in almost the same boat as you - sorry no info on the HF or Diversion to provide. > However, I was looking at Inch's plasma cutter choice and noticed that for a few hundred more a TIG combo unit was available. > Do you already have a cutter? > If the combo TIG is good that would make sense for me. > > Matt From marka at maracing.com Fri Jan 7 16:54:34 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:54:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: 20% off at harbor freight In-Reply-To: References: <20110107160248.E64B518765A@autox.team.net> <126040394.850228.1294416666347.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Howdy, On Fri, 7 Jan 2011, Douglas Braun wrote: > Also, their 20% off coupons are apparently no longer valid on > generators, welders, and other popular expensive items. In fact, the > local store had a sign reminding people of this fact, stuck right next > to the welder display. Yeah, I heard that about the tool boxes too. Still a good deal, but not as good as they were! Mark From marka at maracing.com Fri Jan 7 16:57:28 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:57:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, On Fri, 7 Jan 2011, Douglas Braun wrote: > Another possibility is for me to take the high road, and spend about > $1700 on a Miller Diversion 180, which would give me AC capability and > 120-240 volt operation (as well as a quality tool I can be proud to own > for a long time). But spending that much would be rough on my budget > and domestic tranquility... I don't have any info, but have a related question... The HF welder mentioned is DC only. Is there an AC/DC TIG choice available before you get to the $1.5k+ name brand stuff? Mark From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jan 7 19:04:01 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 21:04:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There seem to be some Chinese AC-DC welders starting at about $1000, but that's not much less than the price of a Miller Diversion 165. I don't understand why AC-DC welders are so much more expensive (and heavier) than Dc-only machines. I was looking at the Diversion schematic, and the AC capability is supplied by an electronic inverter switch between the Dc power supply and the gun. The inverter is basically 4 big transistors that alternately connect the positive and negative output to the gun and work connections. Doug On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Mark Andy wrote: > Howdy, > > On Fri, 7 Jan 2011, Douglas Braun wrote: >> > > > I don't have any info, but have a related question... The HF welder > mentioned is DC only. Is there an AC/DC TIG choice available before you get > to the $1.5k+ name brand stuff? > > Mark From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 20:37:01 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 22:37:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: > There seem to be some Chinese AC-DC welders starting at about $1000, but > that's not much less than the price of a Miller Diversion 165. > > I don't understand why AC-DC welders are so much more expensive (and heavier) > than Dc-only machines. B I was looking at the Diversion schematic, and the > AC capability is supplied by an electronic inverter switch between > the Dc power supply and the gun. B The inverter is basically 4 big transistors > that alternately connect the positive and negative output to the gun > and work connections. Those are four big, high-power IGBTs. Last time I looked, they cost about 200 bucks a pop. That's low volume pricing; nobody making welders is paying anything like that, but it's still a big chunck of the price. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jan 7 21:08:49 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 23:08:49 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I googled "homemade tig welder" or something like that, and I saw a description of somebody's project to build an inverter module. It looked more complex and expensive than the rest of the welder's circuitry. Doug On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 10:37 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: >> There seem to be some Chinese AC-DC welders starting at about $1000, but >> that's not much less than the price of a Miller Diversion 165. >> >> I don't understand why AC-DC welders are so much more expensive (and heavier) >> than Dc-only machines. I was looking at the Diversion schematic, and the >> AC capability is supplied by an electronic inverter switch between >> the Dc power supply and the gun. The inverter is basically 4 big transistors >> that alternately connect the positive and negative output to the gun >> and work connections. > > Those are four big, high-power IGBTs. Last time I looked, they cost > about 200 bucks a pop. That's low volume pricing; nobody making > welders is paying anything like that, but it's still a big chunck of > the price. > > -- > David Scheidt > dmscheidt at gmail.com From arvidj at visi.com Sat Jan 8 07:32:54 2011 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 08:32:54 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9EBF3EEFBE7A4BB39A1D2D7DD5C8E50D@HP62011> If you go to http://weldingweb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28 you will find several threads about the HF welders, especially modifications that various people thought would make them better machines. Just a data resource for you and not meant to be a pro or con on HF or their welders. Arvid -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Braun Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:31 PM To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question I am interested in getting a TIG welder (the welder of a Jedi Knight, not as clumsy or random as a MIG), mostly for auto body work. Has anybody actually tried the HF 98233 TIG welder, which is on sale for $349? This model is a step up from their bargain-basement $239 TIG welder- it has HF start and adjustable gas post-flow, and allegedly has 165 Amps output. Another possibility is for me to take the high road, and spend about $1700 on a Miller Diversion 180, which would give me AC capability and 120-240 volt operation (as well as a quality tool I can be proud to own for a long time). But spending that much would be rough on my budget and domestic tranquility... I don't to start another generic "which TIG" or "HF is junk" thread- I've already read several of those on other message boards... I'm more interested in any first-hand experience with the HF welder (or the Diversion). BTW, an older used transformer unit isn't really feasible- they are just too heavy, and use too much electricity. I have a 240V 30-amp circuit available, which is normally running my compressor. Thanks, Doug From 57healey at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 09:16:27 2011 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 10:16:27 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question In-Reply-To: <9EBF3EEFBE7A4BB39A1D2D7DD5C8E50D@HP62011> References: <9EBF3EEFBE7A4BB39A1D2D7DD5C8E50D@HP62011> Message-ID: <2140777770101840322@unknownmsgid> That is a great forum Sent from my iPad On Jan 8, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote: > If you go to http://weldingweb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28 you will find several threads about the HF welders, especially modifications that various people thought would make them better machines. > > Just a data resource for you and not meant to be a pro or con on HF or their welders. > > Arvid From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Jan 8 10:23:37 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:23:37 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Yet another TIG Welder question In-Reply-To: <2140777770101840322@unknownmsgid> References: <9EBF3EEFBE7A4BB39A1D2D7DD5C8E50D@HP62011> <2140777770101840322@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4D289D99.6010509@comcast.net> While we're at it, I've a plug too: http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com You can subscribe to his newsletter and he sends a link to a new 3-5min video every now and then. NPI, etc., just a useful site IMO. bs On 1/8/2011 8:16 AM, Patton Dickson wrote: > That is a great forum > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 8, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote: > >> If you go to http://weldingweb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28 you will find several threads about the HF welders, especially modifications that various people thought would make them better machines. >> >> Just a data resource for you and not meant to be a pro or con on HF or their welders. >> >> Arvid > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sat Jan 8 13:51:03 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 14:51:03 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts Message-ID: current project is attaching a gear drive to a shaft... the output shaft of the gear drive is 3/4" and keyed the other shaft is smooth and 1-9/16" diameter. or course they have to be coupled end to end I think what I'm looking for is a 'motor coupler" but can't seem to find one that is female on each end. The 1-9/16" shaft is permanent and unmovable... I'll have to fabricate a mount for the gear drive so it can be anywhere... do they make a female/female-keyed coupler in my sizes that you don't have to be The Donald to buy ??? suppliers ??? other suggestions thanks John I've learned in life that my primary goal is to serve as a bad example From jdinnis at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 15:05:35 2011 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 16:05:35 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try something like this? As long as the spider is the same, you can combine two different shaft halfs http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+couplings+half-cou plings On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 2:51 PM, John Niolon wrote: > current project is attaching a gear drive to a shaft... > > the output shaft of the gear drive is 3/4" and keyed > the other shaft is smooth and 1-9/16" diameter. > > or course they have to be coupled end to end > > I think what I'm looking for is a 'motor coupler" but can't seem to find one > that is female on each end. The 1-9/16" shaft is permanent and unmovable... > I'll have to fabricate a mount for the gear drive so it can be anywhere... > > do they make a female/female-keyed coupler in my sizes that you don't have to > be The Donald to buy ??? suppliers ??? other suggestions > > thanks > John > > > > > > > I've learned in life that my primary goal > is to serve as a bad example > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat Jan 8 15:07:09 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:07:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D28E00D.80400@xxiii.com> On 1/8/2011 3:51 PM, John Niolon wrote: > current project is attaching a gear drive to a shaft... > > the output shaft of the gear drive is 3/4" and keyed > the other shaft is smooth and 1-9/16" diameter. McMaster Carr has a HUGE selection for less money than you might think. Local Tractor Supply Store had some that a friend bought recently to hook up a gas engine to a hydraulic pump on a log splitter. Good Luck -Wayne From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 15:16:42 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 17:16:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 3:51 PM, John Niolon wrote: > B current project is B attaching a gear drive to a shaft... > > the output shaft of the gear drive is 3/4" and keyed > the other shaft is smooth and 1-9/16" diameter. > > or course they have to be coupled end to end > > I think what I'm looking for is a 'motor coupler" B but can't seem to find one > that is female on each end. B The 1-9/16" shaft is permanent and unmovable... > I'll have to fabricate a mount for the gear drive so it can be anywhere... > > do they make a female/female-keyed coupler in my sizes that you don't have to > be The Donald to buy ??? B suppliers ??? B other suggestions > Have you looked through the McMaster catalog? 1-9/16 is not a common shaft size (quarter inch above 1-1/2), which might be a problem. What's the application? How much torque? RPMs? One direction of rotation, or two? How much play is allowable? How accurately are you going to be able to align the shafts? > thanks > John > > > > > > > I've learned in life that my primary goal > B is to serve as a bad example > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation B $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com > > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Jan 8 16:26:02 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 15:26:02 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <052f01cbaf8b$6a7e7b20$0301a8c0@randall> > the output shaft of the gear drive is 3/4" and keyed > the other shaft is smooth and 1-9/16" diameter. Flipping through the MMC web site, I see several "mix n match" shaft couplings that seem like they would meet your needs. For example, two 6407K43 plus a 6407K53 might do, for about $60 plus shipping and tax. http://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-couplings/=ai8f3y -- Randall From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Jan 8 16:33:30 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 15:33:30 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <053301cbaf8c$754f13b0$0301a8c0@randall> > 1-9/16 is not a common > shaft size (quarter inch above 1-1/2), which might be a problem. Oops, good point. However, MMC also sells thin wall brass tubing with an inside diameter of 1-9/16 and od 1-5/8. Might do, depending on how much torque & vibration you need to handle. If that won't do, I think you're going to have to wind up machining something, either the shaft, or a bushing, or a coupling. -- Randall From jibjib at att.net Sat Jan 8 18:18:46 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 17:18:46 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <923DD370567C4A699B222B70E6F86A5D@EntCent> The big question, already asked, is how much torque and what RPM? If you have low torque and low ROM, just hose clamp a stiff, wire reinforced hose on both ends. It's been done before. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Niolon Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 12:51 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts current project is attaching a gear drive to a shaft... the output shaft of the gear drive is 3/4" and keyed the other shaft is smooth and 1-9/16" diameter. or course they have to be coupled end to end I think what I'm looking for is a 'motor coupler" but can't seem to find one that is female on each end. The 1-9/16" shaft is permanent and unmovable... I'll have to fabricate a mount for the gear drive so it can be anywhere... do they make a female/female-keyed coupler in my sizes that you don't have to be The Donald to buy ??? suppliers ??? other suggestions thanks John I've learned in life that my primary goal is to serve as a bad example _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From nick at landform.co.uk Sun Jan 9 06:32:40 2011 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:32:40 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: <052f01cbaf8b$6a7e7b20$0301a8c0@randall> References: <052f01cbaf8b$6a7e7b20$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4D29B8F8.7040700@landform.co.uk> On 08/01/2011 23:26, Randall wrote: > For example, two 6407K43 plus a 6407K53 might do, for about $60 plus > shipping and tax. > http://www.mcmaster.com/#shaft-couplings/=ai8f3y > How about scroll down the page to Clamp-on Couplings. Try 3084K51. You'd need to bore out one end to 3/4 inch and cut a keyway then get a 1.75 inch OD bush and bore out to 1.778 inch, unless you can find a ready made item. MMC carry a_lot_of bushes. It might be possible to bore out both ends of a 3084K36. Depends how much spare there is. Nick Brearley Wishing MMC operated in the UK From nick at landform.co.uk Sun Jan 9 11:00:05 2011 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 18:00:05 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: <4D29B8F8.7040700@landform.co.uk> References: <052f01cbaf8b$6a7e7b20$0301a8c0@randall> <4D29B8F8.7040700@landform.co.uk> Message-ID: <4D29F7A5.3090706@landform.co.uk> On 09/01/2011 13:32, nick brearley wrote: > then get a 1.75 inch OD bush and bore out to 1.778 inch, Er, make that "bore out to 1.563 inch ID". The problems that come when you try to metricate fractions... Nick Brearley From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sun Jan 9 12:41:37 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 13:41:37 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts References: <923DD370567C4A699B222B70E6F86A5D@EntCent> Message-ID: <3416E93938C64C93BAECEF05D7A1CB46@john5043a2d406> sorry guys should have given more detail... I'm building an engine stand... I've had a head built from 4" pipe with bearings pressed in and a shaft turned down to fit the bearing i.d. the shaft is 1-9/6" to match the i.d. of the bearings (that's why the odd diameter... torque ??? turning a dressed out Ford 460 eventually...700-800#s..don't know how to calculate torque... RPM will be 1rpm every now and then... the gear drive will be added to the back end to make the turning easier... here's some pics that might help http://www.clubfte.com/users/jniolon/stand006a1.jpg http://www.clubfte.com/users/jniolon/stand008a.jpg I don't think the tubing and hose clamps will work and the factory made couplings in the larger size are way too expensive. I'd hate to put a hundred bucks in a coupling.. I was trying to come up with something like this http://www.clubfte.com/users/jniolon/connector.jpg the 3/4 male end would fit into the gear drive and the 1-9/16 female would slide over the shaft of the engine stand head... haven't gotten to the tightening part yet... maybe set screw on a flat portion of the shaft ??? I need a lathe and the know how to run it !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Brooks" To: "'shop-talk'" Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts > The big question, already asked, is how much torque and what RPM? > > If you have low torque and low ROM, just hose clamp a stiff, wire > reinforced > hose on both ends. It's been done before. > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Niolon > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 12:51 PM > To: shop-talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts > > current project is attaching a gear drive to a shaft... > > the output shaft of the gear drive is 3/4" and keyed > the other shaft is smooth and 1-9/16" diameter. > > or course they have to be coupled end to end > > I think what I'm looking for is a 'motor coupler" but can't seem to find > one > that is female on each end. The 1-9/16" shaft is permanent and > unmovable... > I'll have to fabricate a mount for the gear drive so it can be anywhere... > > do they make a female/female-keyed coupler in my sizes that you don't have > to > be The Donald to buy ??? suppliers ??? other suggestions > > thanks > John > > > > > > > I've learned in life that my primary goal > is to serve as a bad example > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3368 - Release Date: 01/08/11 From jem at milleredp.com Sun Jan 9 13:40:04 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 12:40:04 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: <3416E93938C64C93BAECEF05D7A1CB46@john5043a2d406> References: <923DD370567C4A699B222B70E6F86A5D@EntCent> <3416E93938C64C93BAECEF05D7A1CB46@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: <4D2A1D24.40604@milleredp.com> > http://www.clubfte.com/users/jniolon/connector.jpg > > the 3/4 male end would fit into the gear drive and the 1-9/16 female > would slide over the shaft of the engine stand head... haven't gotten to > the tightening part yet... maybe set screw on a flat portion of the > shaft ??? Okay, then come up with something like that. RPM/balance doesn't seem to be a factor. If you want to be neat it looks like a piece of 2in solid bar stock with a 3/4in hole in one end and a 1 9/16in hole in the other. Keyway machined in one end (presumably with a threaded set-screw hole at 90 degrees or something) and you're probably going to use a through-bolt or a big roll pin in the other. I'm guessing the guy who does my one-off machine work would want $75 to do that. Failing that, you might be able to weld together some combination of pipe fittings and etc. A motorized engine stand? Must be a scale of engine I don't deal with... John. From jem at milleredp.com Sun Jan 9 13:43:02 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 12:43:02 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: <4D2A1D24.40604@milleredp.com> References: <923DD370567C4A699B222B70E6F86A5D@EntCent> <3416E93938C64C93BAECEF05D7A1CB46@john5043a2d406> <4D2A1D24.40604@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <4D2A1DD6.4000605@milleredp.com> > A motorized engine stand? Must be a scale of engine I don't deal with... I will just note in addition that the Ford FEs and 460s I've had on engine stands have never needed anything like a motor. I'd think that if you really need the leverage you might just want to consider welding a 1 1/2in nut on the end of the shaft and getting yourself a long 3/4-in drive ratchet handle (or welding a 2ft pipe on a Harbor Freight-grade short one.) John. From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sun Jan 9 15:26:32 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 16:26:32 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts References: <923DD370567C4A699B222B70E6F86A5D@EntCent><3416E93938C64C93BAECEF05D7A1CB46@john5043a2d406><4D2A1D24.40604@milleredp.com> <4D2A1DD6.4000605@milleredp.com> Message-ID: it MIGHT be overkill John, but my current stand is a pipe in a sleeve head and the weight of the block/crank alone is difficult to rotate... especially with the weight down and trying to roll it back up against the offset weight... I figured why not build one that won't suffer that problem... one thing... I;ll never need to build another one... the welded nut might be the cheap/easy way but the gear drive would be trick... I always overthink/overbuild to my own detriment sometimes ! thanks for the suggestions ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Miller" To: Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts >> A motorized engine stand? Must be a scale of engine I don't deal with... > > I will just note in addition that the Ford FEs and 460s I've had on engine > stands have never needed anything like a motor. > > I'd think that if you really need the leverage you might just want to > consider welding a 1 1/2in nut on the end of the shaft and getting > yourself a long 3/4-in drive ratchet handle (or welding a 2ft pipe on a > Harbor Freight-grade short one.) > > John. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3369 - Release Date: 01/09/11 From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Sun Jan 9 16:00:11 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:00:11 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: References: <923DD370567C4A699B222B70E6F86A5D@EntCent><3416E93938C64C93BAECEF05D7A1CB46@john5043a2d406><4D2A1D24.40604@milleredp.com> <4D2A1DD6.4000605@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <4D2A3DFB.6090908@tx.rr.com> Find an old wheel hub from a contemporary car- the one-piece kind that has a flange and lug bolts, and internal sealed bearings. Weld the housing to your stand, build a fixture to bolt to the flange to connect to the engine block. Add a latch mechanism to lock the rotating assembly in certain positions so it won't rotate while you are working on it. When I was working full time in a garage, we didn't have engine stands. We would set the block upside down on a table and add the cam bearings, camshaft, main bearings and the crankshaft. We would screw long bolts into the bellhousing holes at the end of the engine then stand it up on its back end. Then we would install the pistons, heads and intake manifold. We had a plate that would bolt onto the intake manifold in place of the carb, with a loop on top to raise with a hoist. > it MIGHT be overkill John, but my current stand is a pipe in a sleeve > head and the weight of the block/crank alone is difficult to rotate... > especially with the weight down and trying to roll it back up against > the offset weight... I figured why not build one that won't suffer > that problem From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jan 9 18:14:49 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 17:14:49 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] coupling two shafts In-Reply-To: References: <923DD370567C4A699B222B70E6F86A5D@EntCent><3416E93938C64C93BAECEF05D7A1CB46@john5043a2d406><4D2A1D24.40604@milleredp.com><4D2A1DD6.4000605@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <06a501cbb063$c767a360$0301a8c0@randall> Just a thought, John, how about mounting the gear drive down low and using some old bicycle gears for a chain drive up to the spindle? The force involved depends on how heavy your engine is and how far off-center, but it can't be more than 200 ft-lb or so. A bicycle chain should handle that easily; but if you want something more beefy, how about a discarded timing chain & sprockets. You could probably even duplicate the setup I suggested before, if you want the gear drive to be co-axial with the spindle. Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Sun Jan 9 19:38:27 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:38:27 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Home air cleaners Message-ID: <002a01cbb06f$76de4e10$649aea30$@ameritech.net> We'd like a few room-size, freestanding air cleaners - like the Honeywell models that remove pollen and pet dander, etc. I never paid any attention to them, having been completely disillusioned by an electronic air cleaner in our furnace that did NOTHING. Switching to a 4" pleated paper filter changed our whole house, at about $22 per year, so I figured the little electronic units were a gimmick too. A recent experience with one of the little Honeywell free-standing units at a friend's house made me interested. My wife has asthma, and despite our having a better furnace filter now, there are still times when there's something in the air bothering her. One of these would help her. I envision having a few, like one for the bedroom, one for her hobby room, etc. Anyone have any experience with these things ? Honeywell has so many models and I really don't know what I need. Plus - Honeywell seems to be pretty overpriced on so many things - is this a case where I need to buy their product, or is there something less expensive that will do the same good job ? Thanks ! Karl Pilots - Looking down on people since 1903 From jibjib at att.net Sun Jan 9 21:40:00 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:40:00 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Home air cleaners In-Reply-To: <002a01cbb06f$76de4e10$649aea30$@ameritech.net> References: <002a01cbb06f$76de4e10$649aea30$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: Karl, I just had a new Heat Pump installed and I had the installer add a 5 inch filter slot because of the huge variety of industrial filter pads. All my local installer stocked was a standard 4 inch pleated filter, but there are a lot of different pad materials out there, including meshes and multi-layered filtration materials. Do some searches and you may find what you need. Now that the system is installed, I'll get around to figuring out what I want to use as a filter medium. BTW - before replacing my system, I used two stages of filtration on my air handler. I used the cheap $1 blue air filters to catch the big stuff, and I changed it monthly. I used a very high filtration filter behind the cheap filter, which caught a lot of what the old filter did not. With the cheap filter first in the system, this expensive filter stayed cleaner longer, so I didn't feel badly about paying top dollar for a very high filtration filter. I also added a differential pressure gage (0-.2 inch Dwyer Magnehelic - $18 new, delivered from EBay) across the filters as you should restrict the static drop to somewhere around 1.5 inches of water pressure at your filter to avoid overworking your fan. 1.5 inches is a SWAG number tossed about in the HVAC world and is subject to the whims of your system. I'm adding more return air ductwork as the returns are undersized and are the most restrictive part of the system in my home. This will allow some more static drop to be available for filtration. The DP (Differential Pressure) gage also lets me know when the filters are dirty and its time to change them. Just some things I've done and thought about. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Karl Vacek Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:38 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Home air cleaners We'd like a few room-size, freestanding air cleaners - like the Honeywell models that remove pollen and pet dander, etc. I never paid any attention to them, having been completely disillusioned by an electronic air cleaner in our furnace that did NOTHING. Switching to a 4" pleated paper filter changed our whole house, at about $22 per year, so I figured the little electronic units were a gimmick too. A recent experience with one of the little Honeywell free-standing units at a friend's house made me interested. My wife has asthma, and despite our having a better furnace filter now, there are still times when there's something in the air bothering her. One of these would help her. I envision having a few, like one for the bedroom, one for her hobby room, etc. Anyone have any experience with these things ? Honeywell has so many models and I really don't know what I need. Plus - Honeywell seems to be pretty overpriced on so many things - is this a case where I need to buy their product, or is there something less expensive that will do the same good job ? Thanks ! Karl Pilots - Looking down on people since 1903 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From eric at megageek.com Tue Jan 11 11:27:47 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:27:47 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Texaco Marfak 2 multi purpose grease Message-ID: Guys, I have found myself with a large quantity of Texaco Marfak 2 multi purpose grease (about 2 cases or over 80 cartridges Here is the product sheet for it. It's more than I can use in my lifetime, does anyone need any of this stuff? I'll sell $3 per cartridge (which is less than 50 off retail price.) plus shipping. I just want to gain some space and make some money while I'm still unemployed. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From mbarre at juno.com Tue Jan 11 17:38:11 2011 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 00:38:11 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Gutter on metal roof Message-ID: <20110111.193811.3235.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> I added a lean-to overhang off the back of my shop recently and am considering adding some form of gutter. I have 2 objectives: Stop the erosion where the runoff is cutting into the ground. catch the rain for reuse. It is pretty standard steel roofing, with about a 2' overhang from the nearest support. I was initially thinking plastic, but I am trying to strike a balance between light weight, cost & durability. Aluminum is probably lighter, but what about dissimilar metals? I was just going to use one of the 230 gallon caged tanks that are becoming ubiquitous as a collector. Oh yeah, I gues I will need to consider the unusual - but not unheard of snow/sleet load! What are the chances someone on the list has already devised a clever solution? TIA, Matt in Georgia. From cavanadd at frontier.com Tue Jan 11 18:29:15 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:29:15 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Gutter on metal roof In-Reply-To: <20110111.193811.3235.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> References: <20110111.193811.3235.0@webmail03.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <4D2D03EB.1050609@frontier.com> I have a 24 x 48 foot pole building shop. There is a 24 x 48 open lean-to shed on the north side where I park my tractors. The pole building and roof are metal, and the tractor shed roof is also metal (painted steel). I just called the local gutter people and had them put a gutter on the tractor shed and never gave it another thought (1). As for the collector, I live in the Pacific NorthWet. I want to get rid of the rain runoff, not keep it. (1) the occasion of installing a gutter on the tractor shed was when the snow two winters ago put around two feet of snow on the roof, and eventually pushed the gutters off the main building shop(and part of the house). Homeowner's insurance paid for the replacement gutters and I had the gutter guy put a gutter on the shed while he was out here. Standard metal seamless stuff made on the truck. Dunno if they are steel or aluminum. Dave Matt wrote: > I added a lean-to overhang off the back of my shop recently and am considering > adding some form of gutter. > I have 2 objectives: > Stop the erosion where the runoff is cutting into the ground. > catch the rain for reuse. > > It is pretty standard steel roofing, with about a 2' overhang from the nearest > support. > > I was initially thinking plastic, but I am trying to strike a balance between > light weight, cost& durability. > Aluminum is probably lighter, but what about dissimilar metals? > > I was just going to use one of the 230 gallon caged tanks that are becoming > ubiquitous as a collector. > Oh yeah, I gues I will need to consider the unusual - but not unheard of > snow/sleet load! > > What are the chances someone on the list has already devised a clever > solution? > > TIA, > Matt in Georgia. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From eric at megageek.com Thu Jan 13 20:34:14 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 22:34:14 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review Message-ID: OK, Here is the review on the plasma cutter I was talking about last week. Just a recap, with money being tight, I bought a plasma cutter to make the items I needed instead of buying them (see below for list) I spent a day and half reading everything I could find on the web (and watched a ton of great videos on plasma cutters.) I ended up buying this unit... No tax, free shipping, $499 to my door. It was the best priced unit for it's capacity BY FAR!! Comes with everything but the plug and the air hose nipple (both of which have to match your stuff anyway.) I ordered it on Thursday, it arrived on Wednesday. I unpacked it, added the plug and air hose nipple and in about 20 minutes, I cut my first piece of metal with it. It was 1/8" steel and it was no problem. I even made some bends and all to see how it handled it. No problem. So, I took out a 3/4" piece of steel and turned up the machine and it was my second cut EVER with a plasma cutter and it went through like butter (I did have to go a bunch slower.) So, today, I started on my projects, and they machine performs flawlessly. In fact, I got my projects finished in less time I thought it would take. I have no interest in this company (nor can I find out where this machine is made.) Here are the pros and cons... Cons... Poor manual. Very little real information there. I had never used a plasma cutter before, but it's easy enough to figure out. switch on the gun is a little hard to use with thick gloves (but the aren't needed for plasma cutting as the metal doesn't get hot. Also, there is a foot switch option.) UGLY paint scheme Pros... dirt cheap fully automatic (just an air regulator and amp setting to worry about.) digital amp readout water separator and regulator included small light great capacity Did I mention cheap. My projects I needed were a mount for my snowplow on my truck. It was over $500 from the manufacture. It was a few simple brackets and some wiring. I need an opposing thumb for my back hoe. Costs over $550 for my sized backhoe, withOUT sales tax and shipping. Blade edge for my smaller snow plow. About $150 bucks from the manufacture without shipping. So, those three items would have cost me over $1200. The plasma cutter was $500 and all the steel needed (with plenty of leftovers) was $125. So for $625 I got them all for almost half priced, PLUS I have a plasma cutter now! If you are looking for one, check this model out! Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri Jan 14 07:23:26 2011 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:23:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Moose, I'm ignorant on plasma cutters... Do they require an externial compressor or is it built in to the unit? Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 10:33:49 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:33:49 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Rich White wrote: > Moose, > > I'm ignorant on plasma cutters... > Do they require an externial compressor or is it built in to the unit? In general, they require an external air source. There are some smallish units with a built in compressor; I've seen HVAC people use them. I expect they're expensive for what they are, as they're intended to be portable. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mistertwo at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 14 11:20:41 2011 From: mistertwo at sbcglobal.net (Rand E) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:20:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How large of compressor is needed? What kind of volume does it need to support? Thanks. Randy ________________________________ From: David Scheidt To: Rich White Cc: shop-talk List Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 11:33:49 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Rich White wrote: > Moose, > > I'm ignorant on plasma cutters... > Do they require an externial compressor or is it built in to the unit? In general, they require an external air source. There are some smallish units with a built in compressor; I've seen HVAC people use them. I expect they're expensive for what they are, as they're intended to be portable. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jan 14 11:36:43 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:36:43 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04f101cbb419$fe4afb20$fae0f160$@rr.com> > In general, they require an external air source. Need a fair amount of air, too. The unit Moose bought requires "50-75 psi @ 3.5 cfm" which is more than my "2.5hp" compressor would deliver continuously. (Meaning to run this unit, I would have had to wait for the tank to fill, then only be able to cut for a few minutes before stopping to wait for it again.) -- Randall From hillman at planet-torque.com Fri Jan 14 12:10:05 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:10:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Rivets won't pop In-Reply-To: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I spent a good chunk of last Friday and Saturday thrashing to get my racecar ready to go ice-racing last Sunday. I made it, and we ran all six races, but torn it up a bit in the process. Looks like I'm going to repeat that process tonight and tomorrow. A lot of the thrashing resulted from rivets that wouldn't pop. I have a standard Arrow rivet gun... ( http://www.amazon.com/Arrow-RH200-Fastener-Riveter/dp/B00004Z2JG ) and used a lot of different sizes, both steel and aluminum, but I had the same problem with most of them. The mandrel would break, but the blind end wouldn't expand enough to become larger than the hole. At first, I thought they were just too cold, as I was working in my unheated ~30* garage. I took all the rivets inside overnight, but had the same problem in the morning. I have never had this happen before. I used a wide-enough variety of rivets that I don't believe all of them could be defective. I don't understand how a problem with the gun could cause this issue. That only leaves operator error, which is possible, but how hard is it to squeeze the handle on a rivet gun? I've riveted some of these same parts together before. Anyone know what's going on here, before I waste another couple hours and a bunch of rivets? Thanks. -- David Hillman From darrellw at ipns.com Fri Jan 14 12:41:17 2011 From: darrellw at ipns.com (Darrell Walker) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:41:17 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rivets won't pop In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't know if this is proper procedure, but I usually snug them up with several squeezes (moving the tool down each time), rather than doing them in all one shot. -Darrell On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:10 AM, David Hillman wrote: > I spent a good chunk of last Friday and Saturday thrashing to get my racecar ready to go ice-racing last Sunday. I made it, and we ran all six races, but torn it up a bit in the process. Looks like I'm going to repeat that process tonight and tomorrow. > > A lot of the thrashing resulted from rivets that wouldn't pop. I have a standard Arrow rivet gun... ( http://www.amazon.com/Arrow-RH200-Fastener-Riveter/dp/B00004Z2JG ) and used a lot of different sizes, both steel and aluminum, but I had the same problem with most of them. The mandrel would break, but the blind end wouldn't expand enough to become larger than the hole. > > At first, I thought they were just too cold, as I was working in my unheated ~30* garage. I took all the rivets inside overnight, but had the same problem in the morning. > > I have never had this happen before. I used a wide-enough variety of rivets that I don't believe all of them could be defective. I don't understand how a problem with the gun could cause this issue. That only leaves operator error, which is possible, but how hard is it to squeeze the handle on a rivet gun? I've riveted some of these same parts together before. > > Anyone know what's going on here, before I waste another couple hours and a bunch of rivets? Thanks. > > -- > David Hillman > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darrellw at ipns.com From jdinnis at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 12:54:15 2011 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:54:15 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rivets won't pop In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are you using the correct size rivet for the hole you drilled? (Or conversely the correct size drill for the rivets you have). These can usually only tolerate a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the rivet shank. On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:10 PM, David Hillman wrote: > I spent a good chunk of last Friday and Saturday thrashing to get my > racecar ready to go ice-racing last Sunday. I made it, and we ran all six > races, but torn it up a bit in the process. Looks like I'm going to repeat > that process tonight and tomorrow. > > A lot of the thrashing resulted from rivets that wouldn't pop. I have a > standard Arrow rivet gun... ( > http://www.amazon.com/Arrow-RH200-Fastener-Riveter/dp/B00004Z2JG ) and used > a lot of different sizes, both steel and aluminum, but I had the same > problem with most of them. The mandrel would break, but the blind end > wouldn't expand enough to become larger than the hole. > > At first, I thought they were just too cold, as I was working in my > unheated ~30* garage. I took all the rivets inside overnight, but had the > same problem in the morning. > > I have never had this happen before. I used a wide-enough variety of > rivets that I don't believe all of them could be defective. I don't > understand how a problem with the gun could cause this issue. That only > leaves operator error, which is possible, but how hard is it to squeeze the > handle on a rivet gun? I've riveted some of these same parts together > before. > > Anyone know what's going on here, before I waste another couple hours and > a bunch of rivets? Thanks. > > -- > David Hillman > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From hillman at planet-torque.com Fri Jan 14 13:14:20 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:14:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Rivets won't pop In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jan 2011, John Innis wrote: > Are you using the correct size rivet for the hole you drilled? (Or > conversely the correct size drill for the rivets you have). These can > usually only tolerate a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the > rivet shank. Yes. The blind ends are just not appreciably larger once installed. Washers have been suggested, but those won't help either unless I can get the blind end to 'squish out' larger than the ID. Also, the gun has multiple nosepieces for different sizes, and I was switching back and forth appropriately. -- David Hillman From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri Jan 14 13:40:53 2011 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:40:53 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rivets won't pop In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D30B4D5.8080901@hornesystemstx.com> Is it possible that the rivets have been stored inappropriately , allowing them to rust/corrode inside? This could cause the ball on the end of the stem to stick and not slide as it usually does to turn the rivet inside out. Just for grins, hit the end of the rivet where the pin comes out with a small squirt of penetrating oil and give that a try. Peace, Pat Thusly spake David Hillman, On 1/14/2011 2:14 PM: > On Fri, 14 Jan 2011, John Innis wrote: >> Are you using the correct size rivet for the hole you drilled? (Or >> conversely the correct size drill for the rivets you have). These can >> usually only tolerate a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the >> rivet shank. > > Yes. The blind ends are just not appreciably larger once > installed. Washers have been suggested, but those won't help either > unless I can get the blind end to 'squish out' larger than the ID. > > Also, the gun has multiple nosepieces for different sizes, and I > was switching back and forth appropriately. > > -- > David Hillman > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From jdinnis at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 13:38:14 2011 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:38:14 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rivets won't pop In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd suspect you just got a bunch of rivets that have gone bad. How far did the mandrel pull before it broke? On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 2:14 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Fri, 14 Jan 2011, John Innis wrote: >> >> Are you using the correct size rivet for the hole you drilled? (Or >> conversely the correct size drill for the rivets you have). These can >> usually only tolerate a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the >> rivet shank. > > Yes. The blind ends are just not appreciably larger once installed. > Washers have been suggested, but those won't help either unless I can get > the blind end to 'squish out' larger than the ID. > > Also, the gun has multiple nosepieces for different sizes, and I was > switching back and forth appropriately. > > -- > David Hillman > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From drew at DasRogges.com Fri Jan 14 13:53:32 2011 From: drew at DasRogges.com (Drew Rogge) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:53:32 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rivets won't pop In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D30B7CC.3020701@DasRogges.com> A long shot but are you using rivets that are long enough to reach through all the material plus the dia. of the rivet? What happens if "pop" a rivet with putting it in a hole? Will they upset then? On 01/14/2011 12:14 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Fri, 14 Jan 2011, John Innis wrote: >> Are you using the correct size rivet for the hole you drilled? (Or >> conversely the correct size drill for the rivets you have). These can >> usually only tolerate a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the >> rivet shank. > > Yes. The blind ends are just not appreciably larger once installed. > Washers have been suggested, but those won't help either unless I can > get the blind end to 'squish out' larger than the ID. > > Also, the gun has multiple nosepieces for different sizes, and I was > switching back and forth appropriately. > > -- > David Hillman From hillman at planet-torque.com Fri Jan 14 13:54:14 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:54:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Rivets won't pop In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jan 2011, John Innis wrote: > I'd suspect you just got a bunch of rivets that have gone bad. How > far did the mandrel pull before it broke? I'm not sure how far. It's possible they are corroded inside, I guess, but they aren't very old. In fact, I bought a new box and tried those without any better success. Penetrating oil is an interesting suggestion, though. I also tried hitting them with a heat gun for a bit, before installation, but that didn't help much if any, and was incredibly time-consuming. -- David Hillman PS Tony, that was ~+30*, not negative. Although I have had to work on the car on a frozen lake in ten below, that was a couple years ago. Would you believe that I've been having no end of problems keeping the car from overheating, despite it only racing in well-below-freezing weather? From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 14 13:45:38 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:45:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rich, They do require an air source. Some of the lighter duty ones (less than 1/4" thick material) have compressors built in. Again, I knew nothing about plasma cutters a week ago and I spent the past two days cutting 3/8" material like it was butter. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 14 13:55:53 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:55:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The air requirements are very little. In fact, they just say between 50psi and 70 psi. There is no cfps requirement on it. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Rand E Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 01/14/2011 13:16 To David Scheidt cc shop-talk List Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review How large of compressor is needed? What kind of volume does it need to support? Thanks. Randy ________________________________ From: David Scheidt To: Rich White Cc: shop-talk List Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 11:33:49 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Rich White wrote: > Moose, > > I'm ignorant on plasma cutters... > Do they require an externial compressor or is it built in to the unit? In general, they require an external air source. There are some smallish units with a built in compressor; I've seen HVAC people use them. I expect they're expensive for what they are, as they're intended to be portable. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jan 14 14:30:48 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:30:48 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <052c01cbb432$500a5510$f01eff30$@rr.com> > The air requirements are very little. In fact, they just say between > 50psi and 70 psi. There is no cfps requirement on it. The maker's website gives 3.5 cfm: http://ramsond.com/proddetail.php?prod=CUT50DY It doesn't really specify whether that is 3.5 scfm (ie 3.5 cf after expanding to 1 atmosphere) or acfm (actual 3.5 cf of compressed air), but usually air tools are given as inlet acfm, meaning it needs roughly 17 scfm (at 4 atmospheres/60 psi). -- Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 15:34:39 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:34:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: <052c01cbb432$500a5510$f01eff30$@rr.com> References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <052c01cbb432$500a5510$f01eff30$@rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Randall wrote: >> The air requirements are very little. B In fact, they just say between >> 50psi and 70 psi. B There is no cfps requirement on it. > > The maker's website gives 3.5 cfm: > http://ramsond.com/proddetail.php?prod=CUT50DY > > It doesn't really specify whether that is 3.5 scfm (ie 3.5 cf after > expanding to 1 atmosphere) or acfm (actual 3.5 cf of compressed air), but > usually air tools are given as inlet acfm, meaning it needs roughly 17 scfm > (at 4 atmospheres/60 psi). > That seems like an incredible amount of air. I've used a much bigger miller, which lists its requirement as 6.75 SCFM. I'm willing to say that cheap chinese tools use more air, but three times as much, for less cutting abiity? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jan 14 16:08:58 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:08:58 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: References: <788978.26692.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <052c01cbb432$500a5510$f01eff30$@rr.com> Message-ID: <055801cbb440$06f04f70$14d0ee50$@rr.com> > I'm willing to say > that cheap chinese tools use more air, but three times as much, for > less cutting abiity? I could certainly be mistaken; maybe it does use only 3.5 scfm. But I sure wouldn't want to bet $500 on it. Manufacturers are usually good at presenting their products in the best possible light, and being able to run with a small (portable) compressor would certainly be an advantage for a unit with a handle on the top. Maybe Moose can give us a measurement. Start cutting with a full tank of air and count seconds before the compressor kicks in. If you know the cut-in and cut-out pressures, plus the tank capacity, you can calculate roughly how many scfm you were drawing. -- Randall From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 14 17:24:18 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:24:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review In-Reply-To: <055801cbb440$06f04f70$14d0ee50$@rr.com> Message-ID: I don't mind doing the calculations, but I have a monster air compressor and air reserve and it would take forever for it to kick in. I'll see about making a small tank or something to do a measurement. I still need to find out how to dial in the air. 50-70PSI and it doesn't seem to make a difference in the cuts. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson "Randall" Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 01/14/2011 18:00 To cc "'shop-talk List'" Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Plasma Cutter- the review > I'm willing to say > that cheap chinese tools use more air, but three times as much, for > less cutting abiity? I could certainly be mistaken; maybe it does use only 3.5 scfm. But I sure wouldn't want to bet $500 on it. Manufacturers are usually good at presenting their products in the best possible light, and being able to run with a small (portable) compressor would certainly be an advantage for a unit with a handle on the top. Maybe Moose can give us a measurement. Start cutting with a full tank of air and count seconds before the compressor kicks in. If you know the cut-in and cut-out pressures, plus the tank capacity, you can calculate roughly how many scfm you were drawing. -- Randall From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sat Jan 15 12:07:47 2011 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 13:07:47 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum Message-ID: I need to fill in a 1/8" hole in an aluminum intake manifold prior to having it powder coated. While much of the aluminum is around 3/8" thick, I don't think it is more than 1/8th or so around the hole. Right now, the hottest torch I have is an old MAAP Gas one that has served me well with small projects for many years, mostly plumbing. I just test brazed a similar hole in a piece of scrap (a bit thicker than the area on the manifold) and, while the resulting repair is invisible, I am not sure the brazing aluminum really bonded with the surface metal. Is simple MAAP hot enough for this application, or do I need to buy an Oxi-MAAP torch (http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware/h_d1/N-5yc1vZarnk/R-202185043/h_d2/P roductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)? Any other suggestions before I tackle it? As always, Thanks. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat Jan 15 13:02:14 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:02:14 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D31FD46.3070007@xxiii.com> On 1/15/2011 2:07 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > I need to fill in a 1/8" hole in an aluminum intake manifold prior to having > it powder coated. While much of the aluminum is around 3/8" thick, I don't Wow, did not know you COULD braze it. I've seen it TIGed and MIGed and even that's tricky with good equipment. It sucks the heat away from the weld so quickly, it's hard to get it hot enough. OTH, beverage cans melt in campfires. I think you need at least an acetylene setup. Pre-heating to 400 or 500 in the kitchen oven will help too. Did you google it? There are a bunch of articles out there on it. -Wayne From shiples at comcast.net Sat Jan 15 13:22:22 2011 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 12:22:22 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20110115120902.04bcf2c0@mail.comcast.net> At 01:07 PM 1/15/2011 -0600, Jim Stone wrote: >I need to fill in a 1/8" hole in an aluminum intake manifold prior to having >it powder coated. While much of the aluminum is around 3/8" thick, I don't >think it is more than 1/8th or so around the hole. Right now, the hottest >torch I have is an old MAAP Gas one that has served me well with small >projects for many years, mostly plumbing. I just test brazed a similar hole >in a piece of scrap (a bit thicker than the area on the manifold) and, while >the resulting repair is invisible, I am not sure the brazing aluminum really >bonded with the surface metal. Is simple MAAP hot enough for this >application, or do I need to buy an Oxi-MAAP torch >(http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware/h_d1/N-5yc1vZarnk/R-202185043/h_d2/P >roductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)? Any other suggestions >before I tackle it? I just started to tell you that you can't braze aluminum but then I was going to direct you to the stuff you need to gas weld aluminum and look what pops up? https://www.tinmantech.com/index.php "Tips from the Tin Man" - Brazing Aluminum On the Ask the Expert tab, there is also a link to repairing aluminum. Kent White is one of the masters of metal work. The answer to your question is here. From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat Jan 15 14:39:11 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:39:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110115163713.0431d710@cox.net> At 02:07 PM 1/15/2011, Jim Stone wrote: >I need to fill in a 1/8" hole in an aluminum intake manifold prior to having >it powder coated...... Jim, Check this out: http://durafix.com/ It's al. brazing with a propane tourch. Pretty good video on there. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sat Jan 15 15:40:25 2011 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:40:25 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20110115163713.0431d710@cox.net> References: , <6.2.5.6.1.20110115163713.0431d710@cox.net> Message-ID: Thanks guys. In answer to the first question, I did Google it before posting here and even found the Tin Man video on YouTube, although not his website which is a nice link to have in the future. The problem with his demo is that he is using an Oxyacetylene torch and I need to know if it can be done well enough to be safe (the hole is directly below the carburetor, so any leaks would drip on the exhaust manifold) using MAAP gas. The demo refers to a "soft flame" on the torch. How hot is that relative to a full blast of MAAP? I also found a few discussions indicating that it was possible with MAAP, but was hoping to get that confirmed from someone I trusted. Steve: your note says that "The answer to your question is" in Ken White's website. I've looked around it but, other than buying his book on repairing aluminum, I don't see it. What am I missing? For what its worth: I did my test repair using some BernzOmatic aluminum soldering/brazing rod that I bought about 15 years ago. My test repair seems just fine, although it bothers me that the aluminum rod never really flowed into the manifold. On the other hand, when I removed the heat and wiped the area down with a rag, the hole basically disappeared and grinding the area flat fails to show the outline of the hole. The Durafix is an interesting looking product and might be good to have around and better than the rod I have. However, I need to get the manifold to the power coater fairly quickly and hate to delay things waiting for mail order. Any other advice will be appreciated. Jim > Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:39:11 -0500 > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > From: jblair1948 at cox.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum > > At 02:07 PM 1/15/2011, Jim Stone wrote: > > >I need to fill in a 1/8" hole in an aluminum intake manifold prior to having > >it powder coated...... > > Jim, > > Check this out: > > http://durafix.com/ > > It's al. brazing with a propane tourch. Pretty good video on there. > > John > > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net > Va. Beach, Va > Phone: (757) 495-8229 > > 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) > 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III > 65 Rambler Classic > > Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan > Bricklin: www.bricklin.org > > If you can read this - Thank a teacher! > If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From kvacek at ameritech.net Sat Jan 15 15:50:06 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:50:06 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20110115163713.0431d710@cox.net> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20110115163713.0431d710@cox.net> Message-ID: <003f01cbb506$8e8b34b0$aba19e10$@ameritech.net> So now it's sold as "Durafix". Still the same old crap - I bought some of this 35 years ago as "Lumiweld". Don't bother to buy it and ruin your manifold with it. It's a zinc compound and while it will stick where you apply it perfectly, it's so hard that it's nearly impossible to smooth out level with the aluminum. And you WILL have to smooth it out. Its re-melt temperature is way higher - you will not be re-flowing it to smooth it. It also alloys with the aluminum so if you decide the repair is a bad one, you'll have to cut out more of your original metal to get rid of it. This stuff may have a place in the world, but I think it's mostly sold at big car shows, etc. by fast-talking demo guys and nobody buys it a second time. Since you're repairing an intake manifold, pressure and temperature aren't much of an issue. Eastwood and others sell something called "Lab Metal" which is a high-grade, high-temperature material something like "Plastic Steel" for smoothing metal prior to powder coating. It'll stand up to the PC temperatures, which will be higher than what a typical intake manifold sees in use. Karl -----Original Message----- From: John T. Blair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum At 02:07 PM 1/15/2011, Jim Stone wrote: >I need to fill in a 1/8" hole in an aluminum intake manifold prior to having >it powder coated...... http://durafix.com/ It's al. brazing with a propane tourch. Pretty good video on there. John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net From shiples at comcast.net Sat Jan 15 18:17:26 2011 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:17:26 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20110115163713.0431d710@cox.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20110115163713.0431d710@cox.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20110115170606.040acbf0@mail.comcast.net> At 04:40 PM 1/15/2011 -0600, Jim Stone wrote: >Thanks guys. In answer to the first question, I did Google it before posting >here and even found the Tin Man video on YouTube, although not his website >which is a nice link to have in the future. The problem with his demo is that >he is using an Oxyacetylene torch and I need to know if it can be done well >enough to be safe (the hole is directly below the carburetor, so any leaks >would drip on the exhaust manifold) using MAAP gas. The demo refers to a >"soft flame" on the torch. How hot is that relative to a full blast of MAAP? > >I also found a few discussions indicating that it was possible with MAAP, but >was hoping to get that confirmed from someone I trusted. > >Steve: your note says that "The answer to >your question is" in Ken White's website. I've looked around it but, other >than buying his book on repairing aluminum, I don't see it. What am I >missing? Use the Ask an Expert web form. I'm certainly not an expert. >For what its worth: I did my test repair using some BernzOmatic aluminum >soldering/brazing rod that I bought about 15 years ago. My test repair seems >just fine, although it bothers me that the aluminum rod never really flowed >into the manifold. On the other hand, when I removed the heat and wiped the >area down with a rag, the hole basically disappeared and grinding the area >flat fails to show the outline of the hole. The Durafix is an interesting >looking product and might be good to have around and better than the rod I >have. However, I need to get the manifold to the power coater fairly quickly >and hate to delay things waiting for mail order. If you can't wait, it sounds like your test procedure worked. I'd be afraid that the plug could fall out and end up bouncing around in the combustion chamber. That's why I'd take the manifold to someone who repairs aluminum cylinder heads and pay to have it welded. >Any other advice will be appreciated. Can you drill and tap the hole in the aluminum manifold and buy or build an aluminum plug? That way you'd have a mechanical fix for the plug and the brazing/soldering would disguise the plug. From scottmryan at netzero.net Sat Jan 15 20:35:13 2011 From: scottmryan at netzero.net (scottmryan at netzero.net) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 03:35:13 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum Message-ID: <20110115.213513.23233.1@webmail05.dca.untd.com> The MAAP gas torch is probably hot enough; I would preheat the manifold to around 500 degrees F or so, then it should bond. (The 'soft' flame on a acet torch is probably a little cooler, but likely it's suggested to prevent oxidizing the aluminum.) I have done aluminum brazing several times (once using propane on a very small repair), although it's been 15 years? since I last did it. One time was using some rods from my grandfather, and another time was something I picked up at the local welding supply shop. All of the repairs I did held up well-one was for a CV carb bracket/housing for a 83 honda prelude. I did paint all the repairs since I was not sure if corrosion would compromise the repair. Good luck! Scott R PS: I think tapping the hole for a aluminum bolt, sizing it for length, and beveling the underside of the bolt head (and a matching bezel in the hole), gluing it in w/ jb weld, and grinding it flush would also work well. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Jim Stone I need to fill in a 1/8" hole in an aluminum intake manifold prior to having it powder coated. Right now, the hottest torch I have is an old MAAP Gas one that has served me well with small projects for many years, mostly plumbing. ____________________________________________________________ Globe Life Insurance $1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d3267aca1e5cbe962fst01duc From Jandkstone99 at msn.com Sat Jan 15 21:11:48 2011 From: Jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim and Kathy) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:11:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brazing Aluminum In-Reply-To: <20110115.213513.23233.1@webmail05.dca.untd.com> References: <20110115.213513.23233.1@webmail05.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys. Putting a bolt in as a plug was actually my first thought, but the manifold is only about 3/16" thick at that point and I am afraid that won't leave enough meat for the bolt to fully grab. However, I just did a little playing around with my earlier test and am now confident that, consistent with what Scott just reported, the aluminum rod does seem to have bonded with the base metal. I took a nail just a hair smaller than the diameter of the original hole and tried to hammer the plug out; the nail bent but the plug didn't budge. I drilled a second hole and tried again and this one worked just as well. I wouldn't trust a bracket brazed in this manor, but am now confident that this is a good way to plug a small hole. Sent from my iPad On Jan 16, 2011, at 3:35 AM, "scottmryan at netzero.net" wrote: > The MAAP gas torch is probably hot enough; I would preheat the manifold to > around 500 degrees F or so, then it should bond. (The 'soft' flame on a acet > torch is probably a little cooler, but likely it's suggested to prevent > oxidizing the aluminum.) > I have done aluminum brazing several times (once using propane on a very small > repair), although it's been 15 years? since I last did it. One time was using > some rods from my grandfather, and another time was something I picked up at > the local welding supply shop. All of the repairs I did held up well-one was > for a CV carb bracket/housing for a 83 honda prelude. I did paint all the > repairs since I was not sure if corrosion would compromise the repair. > > Good luck! Scott R > PS: I think tapping the hole for a aluminum bolt, sizing it for length, and > beveling the underside of the bolt head (and a matching bezel in the hole), > gluing it in w/ jb weld, and grinding it flush would also work well. > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Jim Stone > > > I need to fill in a 1/8" hole in an aluminum intake manifold prior to having > it powder coated. > > Right now, the hottest torch I have is an old MAAP Gas one that has served me > well with small projects for many years, mostly plumbing. > > ____________________________________________________________ > Globe Life Insurance > $1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d3267aca1e5cbe962fst01duc > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 14 04:47:44 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 06:47:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action (6540054) Message-ID: I just got this email (it went to the right email account for my ebay account.) Does anyone know if there is a way to validate this as true or a scam? Ebay, wouldn't tell me if it was true. There is a Snopes on an earlier case, but I can't find anything on this one. Thanks in advance... BTW, the pacer information listed at the end is a pay to use government site, so I didn't do that search. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson ----- Forwarded by Eric Petrevich/Megageek on 01/14/2011 07:00 ----- : Please read the notice below carefully as your rights may be affected. IMPORTANT LEGAL NOTICE b PLEASE DO NOT DELETE A. INTRODUCTION You are receiving this notice because eBaybs records show that you paid Final Value Fees for selling items in the vehicle-related parts and accessories categories on eBay Motors (b Parts and Accessoriesb ) between April 21, 2005, and August 26, 2009. You will be entitled to a partial refund of those fees (net of any previous refunds) under a settlement agreement if it is approved as described below. This Notice relates to class action litigation alleging that eBay charged the incorrect amount of Final Value Fees for the sale of Parts and Accessories in the time period above. The case was filed in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California and entitled b Brice Yingling d/b/a Alamo Auto Sports and Andy Scott vs. eBay, Inc.,b Case No. C-09-01733 (the b Lawsuitb ). eBay denies the allegations in the Lawsuit. Details about the Lawsuit can be found at www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com . This Notice summarizes how a proposed settlement of the Lawsuit may affect you. B. WHO IS COVERED BY THE SETTLEMENT? On July 27, 2010, the Court allowed the individual plaintiffs Yingling and Scott to represent the following people, who are known as b Class Membersb : All persons who paid so-called Final Value Fees in conjunction with a listing of an item within eBay, Inc.bs defined category of b Parts & Accessoriesb on the eBay Motors website, which listing was placed between April 21, 2005, and August 26, 2009. This ruling also allows the law firm of Figari & Davenport LLP to act as b Class Counselb and to represent the Class Members as their attorneys. The Courtbs ruling does not mean that the Court views the claims in this Lawsuit as having merit or not. This Settlement applies to the same persons defined above; however, all listings made using eBaybs Store Inventory Format are excluded from the Settlement. This group of persons is the b Settlement Class.b eBaybs records show that you are a member of the Settlement Class. C. WHAT ARE THE TERMS OF THE SETTLEMENT? On December 20, 2010, the Court preliminarily approved the following Settlement and ordered that this Notice be sent to you. The Court will hold a hearing on March 28, 2011 to decide whether to grant final approval to the Settlement, which will affect you as a Class Member. What Class Members Will Get In the Settlement, If It Is Approved Under the Settlement, eBay will establish a Settlement Fund in the amount of $30 million. The Settlement Fund will be used to (1) reimburse, in part, Final Value Fees paid (net of any previous refunds) by the Settlement Class; (2) pay all expenses to send this Notice and administer the Settlement; (3) compensate Class Counsel and the Class Representatives (as discussed further below); and (4) distribute any leftover funds to entities to be approved by the Court. Settlement payments of less than $0.50 will not exceed processing and postage costs, so Class Counsel intends to seek Court approval to eliminate all settlement payments to Settlement Class Members that do not exceed $0.50. Whether such deminimus payments may be eliminated will be addressed by the Court at the final settlement hearing described in paragraph H below. Payment to Settlement Class members will be proportional to the total amount of Final Value Fees (net of any previous refunds) each Class Member paid between April 21, 2005 and August 26, 2009 for selling Parts and Accessories, excluding listings in eBay Store Inventory Format. According to eBaybs calculations, which are subject to finalization and revision, it is estimated that Class Members will be refunded approximately 6.67% of the Final Value Fees (net of any previous refunds) they paid for these listings. For details of the terms of the Settlement Agreement, please see the Court Documents page of the website www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com. What Class Counsel Will Ask For From the Court: Class Counsel will ask the Court for an award of attorneysb fees and costs to be paid from the Settlement Fund. eBay has agreed not to oppose a request for fees of up to twenty-five percent (25%) of the Settlement Fund and reimbursement for its costs and expenses. Class Counsel will file its application for fees and costs on February 4, 2011, and the application will be available on the website www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com. Class Counsel will also ask the Court to award $15,000 to plaintiffs Yingling and Scott for acting as class representatives. What eBay Will Get In the Settlement, If It Is Approved: In exchange for the payments above, the Settlement Class members will release all claims they have against eBay related to the allegations in the Lawsuit. The release means that you, as a Settlement Class Member, will give up your right to file a separate lawsuit on your own behalf in any way related to the claims in the Lawsuit. The scope of the release is quite broad and is specified in the Settlement Agreement, available at www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com. D. WHAT ARE MY OPTIONS RELATED TO THE SETTLEMENT? You have the following options related to the Settlement: (1) You can do nothing, in which case you will automatically receive a payment in the amount calculated as described in Section C above and as determined based on eBaybs records. Payment will be sent to you at the address in eBaybs records PAYABLE TO THE NAME NOTED AT THE TOP OF THIS EMAIL unless you update your mailing address at the following web address:B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B- www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com and/or update your legal name pursuant to the instructions on the website. The amount of payment will be determined based on eBaybs records and you will be bound by the terms of the Settlement, including the release of claims against eBay as described in Section C above. (2) You can opt out of the settlement, as explained below in Section F. (3) You can object to the settlement, as explained below in Section G. E. HOW TO RECEIVE YOUR SETTLEMENT PAYMENT Receiving your settlement payment is easy. The amount owed to you will be calculated based on eBaybs records and will be mailed to the address associated with the eBay user ID under which your covered sales were made. It is not necessary for you to do anything if your LEGAL NAME and ADDRESS on file with eBay associated with your eBay user ID from the Class Period are already correct. If your address with eBay is not current, please update your address on-line at www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com by no later than March 28, 2011. If you prefer to update your address by mail, instructions for how to do so can also be found on the Settlement website. The only information you need to provide in order to update your address is your current contact information, including all eBay user IDs you used between April 21, 2005, and August 26, 2009, e-mail address and physical address b you do not need to give any passwords or account numbers. If your legal name is not the name this email was addressed to above, you will need to contact the Settlement Class Administrator. Go to www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com for instructions and the specific information you will need to provide to report a change of name. IF YOUR CURRENT ADDRESS AND LEGAL NAME IS NOT IN EBAYbS RECORDS AND YOU DO NOT UPDATE YOUR INFORMATION AS DESCRIBED ABOVE, YOUR SETTLEMENT PAYMENT MAY NOT BE DELIVERABLE TO YOU OR BE ABLE TO BE CASHED. Undeliverable and/or otherwise uncashed settlement payments will be disbursed to certain charities or other organizations approved by the Court. F. HOW TO OPT OUT AND THE EFFECT OF OPTING OUT Instead of receiving a payment as part of the Settlement, you may opt out of the Settlement Class. You may do so by sending a written notice of exclusion by first class mail, postmarked not later than February 14, 2011 , to: Yingling v. eBay Class Action, EXCLUSIONS, Class Administrator,c/o A.B. Data, Ltd., PO Box 170500 Milwaukee, WI 53217-8042 . Your written notice of exclusion must: (1) include your name, address, e-mail address, telephone number, and each eBay user I.D. utilized by you during the Class Period; (2) state that you wish to be excluded from the Settlement Class; and (3) be signed by you. If you opt out of the Settlement Class, you: (1) will not receive any of the cash payments to be made as part of the Settlement; (2) will not be bound by the final order of dismissal and release in the Lawsuit; and (3) may, if you wish and at your own expense, pursue on your own behalf whatever legal rights you believe you may have. You will also not be allowed to object to the Settlement if you opt out of the Settlement Class. G. HOW TO SUBMIT AN OBJECTION If you have any objections to the Settlement, you must file them with the Court by February 14, 2011. You cannot do this on-line nor can you simply mail something to the Settlement Class Administrator. The objection must include the Class Memberbs name, current address, current telephone number, current email address, each eBay user I.D. utilized by the Class Member during the Class Period, the basis of the objection, all arguments, citations, and evidence supporting the objection and that they are a member of the Class, and whether the objector intends to appear at the final fairness hearing, either with or without counsel. Please also note that you must send copies of the objections you file to Class Counsel and Defense Counsel. Neither the Class Counsel nor Defense Counsel may assist you in asserting objections; you will have to object on your own or hire, at your own expense, your own lawyer. In order to obtain the necessary addresses for the Court, Class Counsel, and Defense Counsel, please go to www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com and review the page regarding objections. H. WHEN WILL THE COURT CONSIDER THE SETTLEMENT? At 9:00 a.m. PST on March 28, 2011 the Court will conduct a hearing to determine the fairness of the Settlement and may enter an order finally approving the Settlement. The hearing will take place in the Courtroom of the Honorable James Ware, Courtroom 8, 4th Floor, Robert F. Peckham Federal Bldg. and United States Courthouse, 280 South First Street, San Jose, CA 95113-3002. Class Counsel will appear on behalf of the Settlement Class. I. HOW TO GET MORE INFORMATION Please do not respond to this message; the address is not monitored and no one will read any response you send. Instead, if you have further questions about the Lawsuit and Settlement go to www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com. In addition, all of the court documents are on file with the Clerk of the Court, United States District Court for the Northern District of California: Mr. Richard W. Wieking, Court Clerk, 2112 Robert F. Peckham Federal Bldg. and United States Courthouse, 280 South First Street, San Jose, CA 95113-3002, for inspection and copying at your own expense during regular business hours. The pleadings in the case can also be viewed on-line through PACER, the Federal Courtbs on-line pleadings database. PACER can be accessed at http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov , and instructions for how to search for pleadings are provided at that website. PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT THE COURT, THE CLERK OF THE COURT, OR THE JUDGE ABOUT THIS LITIGATION. PLEASE ALSO DO NOT CONTACT EBAY OR PAYPAL CUSTOMER SERVICE ABOUT THIS LITIGATION. THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jan 16 00:59:15 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:59:15 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00fc01cbb553$45c51cd0$0301a8c0@randall> > Does anyone know if there is a way to validate this as true > or a scam? I don't _know_, but the consensus on the eBay message boards seems to be that the lawsuit is real, but at least some of the emails are fakes. Apparently some emails have the right text for the URL, but the actual URL leads somewhere else. But http://www.ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com/ appears to be legit. Note that it does NOT ask for your eBay account or password. -- Randall From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sun Jan 16 07:24:27 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 09:24:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class Action(6540054) In-Reply-To: <00fc01cbb553$45c51cd0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <00fc01cbb553$45c51cd0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4D32FF9B.6060207@xxiii.com> On 1/16/2011 2:59 AM, Randall wrote: >> Does anyone know if there is a way to validate this as true >> or a scam? It appears legit. And as Randal pointed out, they don't appear to be trying to scam any info from anyone. If there have been "copycat" versions of it that are scams, well... neither a new scheme nor the original guy's fault. I got it, and I have sold parts and a car during the time frame stated. It also came to my email address used exclusively for ebay, which doesn't normally see any spam/scam messages. You can see the registration info for the domain name here: http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com The "AB Data" company that owns it has a web site saying they do "class action administration". I'd like to know what the whole thing is about. I can not find any info on the alleged wrong doing that prompted it. -Wayne From eric at megageek.com Wed Jan 19 12:29:57 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 14:29:57 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea Message-ID: OK, now I have my plasma cutter, my wire feed, my 'buzzbox' and my OxAc tanks/torches in my shop. Each are on their own cart at this moment. I was wondering, would it make sense to make a single, custom "welding" cart. Maybe start with something like this... < http://www.harborfreight.com/16-inch-x-30-inch-steel-service-cart-5107.html > Then cut two holes in the top self and place the gas bottles in them. Then have the other units on the cart as well. This way I can move them all around (since I often use more than one at a time.) They will take up less space this way also. Any ideas? Am I missing something? Anyone got a better solution? Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Jan 19 12:55:12 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 14:55:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:29 PM, wrote: > OK, now I have my plasma cutter, my wire feed, my 'buzzbox' and my OxAc > tanks/torches in my shop. > > Each are on their own cart at this moment. B I was wondering, would it make > sense to make a single, custom "welding" cart. > I don't know that a single cart makes sense. For one thing, I wonder how much you'll use the torch now that you've got the plasma cutter. The people I know who have both rarely use the torch. For me, the mig and plasma would make sense together, along with their consumables, and special tools. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jniolon at bham.rr.com Wed Jan 19 13:06:46 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 14:06:46 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29CBAF6F73A1407394E7C4FD3D9907EA@OwnerPC> Moose, check some of the welding forums... seems like thats all you see posted now a days http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=6e0424cc3809f56836b3201507b68091&f=13 http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/forumdisplay.php?f=13 http://weldingweb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10 you gotta find something there.. john ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 1:29 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea > OK, now I have my plasma cutter, my wire feed, my 'buzzbox' and my OxAc > tanks/torches in my shop. > > Each are on their own cart at this moment. I was wondering, would it make > sense to make a single, custom "welding" cart. > > Maybe start with something like this... > > < > http://www.harborfreight.com/16-inch-x-30-inch-steel-service-cart-5107.html >> > > Then cut two holes in the top self and place the gas bottles in them. > > Then have the other units on the cart as well. This way I can move them > all around (since I often use more than one at a time.) > > They will take up less space this way also. > > Any ideas? Am I missing something? Anyone got a better solution? > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3389 - Release Date: 01/18/11 From eric at megageek.com Wed Jan 19 13:05:21 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:05:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea In-Reply-To: <29CBAF6F73A1407394E7C4FD3D9907EA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: UGGG!!! John, I hate you!! Like I needed ANOTHER three *awesome* forums to spend my time with!!! OK, I'll be quiet as I spend the next 6 months reading posts on these forums. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From jblair1948 at cox.net Wed Jan 19 13:20:52 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:20:52 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110119151443.04bf51a8@cox.net> At 02:55 PM 1/19/2011, David Scheidt wrote: >>> OK, now I have my plasma cutter, my wire feed, my 'buzzbox' and my OxAc >>> tanks/torches in my shop. >>> >>> Each are on their own cart at this moment. B I was wondering, would it make >>> sense to make a single, custom "welding" cart. >>> >I don't know that a single cart makes sense. For one thing, I wonder how much you'll use the >torch now that you've got the plasma cutter. he people I know who have both rarely use the >torch. For me, the mig and plasma would make sense together, along with their consumables, >and special tools. Moose, While I've seen pictures of you, and you nickname might be appripro, I'm more of your Don Knotts sort of fellow. I don't know if I could push a cart that had all the gear on it. My dad has a seperate cart for his 5' tall OA bottles and tourches, and the arc welder is mounted to the wall of the garage. My Mig welder is on a H.F. welding cart, http://www.harborfreight.com/welding-cart-90305.html. I agree with David, Mig and plasma cutter possibly on one stand, as to me they go together. John >-- >David Scheidt >dmscheidt at gmail.com >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jblair1948 at cox.net John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From doug at dougbraun.com Wed Jan 19 15:10:31 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:10:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20110119151443.04bf51a8@cox.net> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20110119151443.04bf51a8@cox.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:20 PM, John T. Blair wrote: > My Mig welder is on a H.F. welding cart, > http://www.harborfreight.com/welding-cart-90305.html. BTW, I have the same cart, and I am quite happy with it. It replaced a very junky one I got from Homier.com about 7 or 8 years ago. Doug From pat at hornesystemstx.com Wed Jan 19 16:21:20 2011 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:21:20 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3771F0.4080605@hornesystemstx.com> Eric, Why not make your own cart(s) now that you have all the equipment needed? It can be a good trial of the cool stuff! Peace, Pat Thusly spake eric at megageek.com, On 1/19/2011 1:29 PM: > OK, now I have my plasma cutter, my wire feed, my 'buzzbox' and my OxAc > tanks/torches in my shop. > > Each are on their own cart at this moment. I was wondering, would it make > sense to make a single, custom "welding" cart. > > Maybe start with something like this... > > < > http://www.harborfreight.com/16-inch-x-30-inch-steel-service-cart-5107.html > Then cut two holes in the top self and place the gas bottles in them. > > Then have the other units on the cart as well. This way I can move them > all around (since I often use more than one at a time.) > > They will take up less space this way also. > > Any ideas? Am I missing something? Anyone got a better solution? > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From mikey at b2systems.com Wed Jan 19 16:31:54 2011 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:31:54 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart idea In-Reply-To: <4D3771F0.4080605@hornesystemstx.com> References: <4D3771F0.4080605@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <4D37746A.2040501@b2systems.com> I agree, when I first got my oxy/acet system, I built a cart for it. When I got my MIG, I built a cart and fixed all the mistakes on the oxy cart for the MIG, when I got my TIG I again made a cart and fixed all the things I did wrong on the MIG cart. I learned each time and it gave me practice welding also. When I got the plasma, ok I could not use to put together a cart :) but I modified my TIG cart. I also agree on not putting everything on one cart, it becomes way too heavy AND since I got my MIG, I have not used my oxy setup at all, same once I got the TIG, the MIG has sat unused for 6 years now, the torch close to 10 years. I would not get rid of the torch, it can come in handy as a blue wrench but I have considered selling the MIG. Building your own cart should be required of every welding purchase, its good practice. mike On 01/19/2011 03:21 PM, Pat Horne wrote: > Eric, > > Why not make your own cart(s) now that you have all the equipment > needed? It can be a good trial of the cool stuff! > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake eric at megageek.com, On 1/19/2011 1:29 PM: >> OK, now I have my plasma cutter, my wire feed, my 'buzzbox' and my OxAc >> tanks/torches in my shop. >> >> Each are on their own cart at this moment. I was wondering, would it >> make >> sense to make a single, custom "welding" cart. >> >> Maybe start with something like this... >> >> < >> http://www.harborfreight.com/16-inch-x-30-inch-steel-service-cart-5107.html >> >> Then cut two holes in the top self and place the gas bottles in them. >> >> Then have the other units on the cart as well. This way I can move them >> all around (since I often use more than one at a time.) >> >> They will take up less space this way also. >> >> Any ideas? Am I missing something? Anyone got a better solution? >> >> Moose >> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a >> rational >> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph >> Waldo Emerson >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com From eric at megageek.com Thu Jan 20 05:40:47 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:40:47 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Well pump alarm question Message-ID: OK, I know that I said I'd be quiet for a while, but this is a sort of emergency. I have a spring fed well for my property. Turns out that the water line in one of my out buildings broke. So my pump was running for (maybe?) hours constantly. This drained the well and that was the first I knew something was wrong. What I was wondering, is there any sort of device that I can make/buy that I can hook up to my water pump that will 'time' how long it is continuously running. Then it sends an alarm after it has been running continuously for more than a preset length of time? It would need to reset to zero when the pump turns off each time. This way I would know of a problem before it drained the well. Anyone know of anything? Anyone make something similar in the past? Thanks Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From wmc_st at xxiii.com Thu Jan 20 07:07:13 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:07:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Well pump alarm question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D384191.5070901@xxiii.com> On 1/20/2011 7:40 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > I have a spring fed well for my property. > Turns out that the water line in one of my out buildings broke. So my > pump was running for (maybe?) hours constantly. > What I was wondering, is there any sort of device that I can make/buy that > I can hook up to my water pump that will 'time' how long it is > continuously running. Then it sends an alarm after it has been running Does your setup have a pump and pressure tank with it? These systems will have a high/low pressure switch at the tank controlling the pump cycles. There are higher grade switches that have something like an "under pressure" cutout in addition to the high/low. These will trip out if the tank goes below the preset low, and keep the pump turned of until manually reset. And they're a direct replacement for the cheaper version of the pressure switch. It still depends on exceeding water supply from the source but can save your pump, and possibly reduce the well recovery time. -Wayne From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jan 20 07:55:06 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 06:55:06 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Well pump alarm question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <023401cbb8b2$06db0ea0$0301a8c0@randall> > What I was wondering, is there any sort of device that I can > make/buy that > I can hook up to my water pump that will 'time' how long it is > continuously running. Then it sends an alarm after it has > been running > continuously for more than a preset length of time? I don't know of a commercial device, but it shouldn't be too hard to build something that would do. Basically you just need a counter or clock that starts at zero when the pump comes on, and sounds an alarm when the count/time exceeds your threshold. Here is one example, using the venerable NE555 timer chip: http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/gadgets/555/555ex8.gif For your purpose, you would substitute a relay coil for the "ID red" LED & dropping resistor; plus a circuit that detected when the pump was running in place of the "reset" button (so pins 2 & 4 are grounded when the pump is off). The alarm delay can be adjusted over a wide range by changing the RC network on pins 6 & 7. If the pump runs for longer than 1.1RC, the relay gets activated and can set off whatever you want in terms of lights & sirens. Probably easier to use a 12v supply instead of the 9v indicated, so you can use a standard 12v relay. -- Randall From drew at DasRogges.com Thu Jan 20 08:38:07 2011 From: drew at DasRogges.com (Drew Rogge) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:38:07 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Well pump alarm question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3856DF.7030406@DasRogges.com> I know this is way over kill for your situation but I took two of these devices: , a photo sensor: and a 250V neon panel indicator light and built a system that allows my linux box to record my well pump activity. The indicator light is wired in parallel to my pump and lights up when the pump turns on. One of the JeeNodes looks at this light every second and sends a message when the light changes state. The other JeeNode receives the message and talks via USB to a program on my linux box. Right now the program only keeps track of when the pump cycles on and off but it could be changed to send mail or some other kind of alert if the pump is on for two long. The sending unit/sensor is in my unfinished basement where as the received in on the first floor of the house about 40 feet from the sender. Right now the sender is battery powered and 4 AA's lasted about 24 days. On 01/20/2011 04:40 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, I know that I said I'd be quiet for a while, but this is a sort of > emergency. > > I have a spring fed well for my property. > > Turns out that the water line in one of my out buildings broke. So my > pump was running for (maybe?) hours constantly. > > This drained the well and that was the first I knew something was wrong. > > What I was wondering, is there any sort of device that I can make/buy that > I can hook up to my water pump that will 'time' how long it is > continuously running. Then it sends an alarm after it has been running > continuously for more than a preset length of time? It would need to > reset to zero when the pump turns off each time. > > This way I would know of a problem before it drained the well. > > Anyone know of anything? Anyone make something similar in the past? > > Thanks > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson From doug at dougbraun.com Thu Jan 20 08:55:15 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:55:15 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stupid TIG tricks (was: Welding cart idea) Message-ID: Well, I went and got the HF $350-on-sale TIG machine last week, and after playing with it for a week I do not regret buying it. The only real downside is the lack of a foot pedal, but people have described how to add one. So, I was wondering: do people think that a TIG/stick machine can effectively replace a MIG machine? Can I put my MIG welder up in the attic? What sort of tasks could a (120-volt) MIG machine do that a 160-amp TIG/stick machine cannot do? I know the MIG is faster for large jobs, but I always seem to have a bunch of little jobs. Also, I tried using the TIG as a "blue wrench", turning down the amps a bit, and making the arc as long as possible. It seemed to work pretty well. Is this a common practice, or some sort of horrible abuse of the machine? The only downside I can see is that you need to remember to use the right body/eye protection for yourself and any spectators. How about brazing with a TIG, or soldering copper plumbing? (I guess for must plumbing jobs, you want something more portable...) How about heating coffee or leftovers? :-) Doug On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Mike Rambour wrote: > > I also agree on not putting everything on one cart, it becomes way too > heavy AND since I got my MIG, I have not used my oxy setup at all, same once > I got the TIG, the MIG has sat unused for 6 years now, the torch close to 10 > years. I would not get rid of the torch, it can come in handy as a blue > wrench but I have considered selling the MIG. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Jan 20 09:38:11 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:38:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Well pump alarm question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 7:40 AM, wrote: > OK, I know that I said I'd be quiet for a while, but this is a sort of > emergency. > > I have a spring fed well for my property. > > Turns out that the water line in one of my out buildings broke. B So my > pump was running for (maybe?) hours constantly. > > This drained the well and that was the first I knew something was wrong. > > What I was wondering, is there any sort of device that I can make/buy that > I can hook up to my water pump that will 'time' how long it is > continuously running. B Then it sends an alarm after it has been running > continuously for more than a preset length of time? B It would need to > reset to zero when the pump turns off each time. > > This way I would know of a problem before it drained the well. > > Anyone know of anything? B Anyone make something similar in the past? I don't know about your particular requirement, but that sort of failure is pretty common. I know there are motor controllers that will lock out a pump if it runs too long, or starts too often. Well installers where you are might not have experience with them, because you're not exactly the desert, and wells running dry isn't that common. Where you can get one, aside from a well installer, I don't know. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From bspidell at comcast.net Thu Jan 20 09:48:41 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:48:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Stupid TIG tricks (was: Welding cart idea) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <17537401.1500260.1295542121124.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have both a MIG and a TIG, and I like having the option. TIG is great fun/artistry, but IMO MIG is more practical for most sheetmetal--i.e. body repair--work than TIG. For instance, if you're stitching a repair panel onto the side of the car, TIG would be less practical. And, since you're going to grind off the excess--for a butt weld, anyway--the MIG is handier and much faster. Also, for overlaps I prefer plug (rosette) welds and TIG would be slow and cumbersome, and MIG usually produces a nice-looking weld that could pass for a spot weld (and if you're good/lucky you don't need to grind). MIG is also easier/faster if you just need to improvise a tool or fix a broken something-or-other. TIG is certainly better for 'delicate' work and the only way to go on aluminum (unless you have a spool gun for your MIG and you're not overly concerned with appearance). However, you do need AC for TIG/Al, and I don't think the lower-priced units do AC. bs -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA Well, I went and got the HF $350-on-sale TIG machine last week, and after playing with it for a week I do not regret buying it. The only real downside is the lack of a foot pedal, but people have described how to add one. So, I was wondering: do people think that a TIG/stick machine can effectively replace a MIG machine? Can I put my MIG welder up in the attic? What sort of tasks could a (120-volt) MIG machine do that a 160-amp TIG/stick machine cannot do? I know the MIG is faster for large jobs, but I always seem to have a bunch of little jobs. Also, I tried using the TIG as a "blue wrench", turning down the amps a bit, and making the arc as long as possible. It seemed to work pretty well. Is this a common practice, or some sort of horrible abuse of the machine? The only downside I can see is that you need to remember to use the right body/eye protection for yourself and any spectators. How about brazing with a TIG, or soldering copper plumbing? (I guess for must plumbing jobs, you want something more portable...) How about heating coffee or leftovers? :-) Doug From rwil at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 20 10:20:55 2011 From: rwil at sbcglobal.net (Roland Wilhelmy) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:20:55 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stupid TIG tricks (was: Welding cart idea) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Imagine using your foot-controlled TIG while doing repairs lying under your car and working overhead. There are many situations where the MIG is just a whole lot handier and quicker and where quickness and handiness are the main factors. Some times you only have one hand for the task, too. -Roland On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:55:15 -0500, Doug wrote: ::Well, I went and got the HF $350-on-sale TIG machine last week, and ::after playing with it for a week I do not regret buying it. The only ::real downside is the lack of a foot pedal, but people have described ::how to add one. :: ::So, I was wondering: do people think that a TIG/stick machine can ::effectively replace a MIG machine? Can I put my MIG welder up in the ::attic? What sort of tasks could a (120-volt) MIG machine do that a ::160-amp TIG/stick machine cannot do? I know the MIG is faster for ::large jobs, but I always seem to have a bunch of little jobs. :: From tputland at charter.net Thu Jan 20 10:55:11 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 9:55:11 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Well pump alarm question In-Reply-To: <4D3856DF.7030406@DasRogges.com> Message-ID: <20110120125511.R6CXW.11818979.root@mp11> Brilliant!!! This is just too cool!!!! Another perfect example of why I just love this list serv!! ---- Drew Rogge wrote: ============= I know this is way over kill for your situation but I took two of these devices: , a photo sensor: and a 250V neon panel indicator light and built a system that allows my linux box to record my well pump activity. The indicator light is wired in parallel to my pump and lights up when the pump turns on. One of the JeeNodes looks at this light every second and sends a message when the light changes state. The other JeeNode receives the message and talks via USB to a program on my linux box. Right now the program only keeps track of when the pump cycles on and off but it could be changed to send mail or some other kind of alert if the pump is on for two long. The sending unit/sensor is in my unfinished basement where as the received in on the first floor of the house about 40 feet from the sender. Right now the sender is battery powered and 4 AA's lasted about 24 days. On 01/20/2011 04:40 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, I know that I said I'd be quiet for a while, but this is a sort of > emergency. > > I have a spring fed well for my property. > > Turns out that the water line in one of my out buildings broke. So my > pump was running for (maybe?) hours constantly. > > This drained the well and that was the first I knew something was wrong. > > What I was wondering, is there any sort of device that I can make/buy that > I can hook up to my water pump that will 'time' how long it is > continuously running. Then it sends an alarm after it has been running > continuously for more than a preset length of time? It would need to > reset to zero when the pump turns off each time. > > This way I would know of a problem before it drained the well. > > Anyone know of anything? Anyone make something similar in the past? > > Thanks > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From mikey at b2systems.com Thu Jan 20 15:15:12 2011 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:15:12 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Stupid TIG tricks (was: Welding cart idea) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D38B3F0.2000609@b2systems.com> I have both and I have not used my MIG at all since I got my TIG 6 or so years ago. I don't see any reason to keep the MIG except that its much faster and might be nice on a big car trailer project or something like that. I have very seriously considered selling the MIG for the reason that I just don't use it at all. I would like to get rid of it and get the space back but everytime I think about it, I start thinking about what I might need it for someday in the distant future. Body work is much nicer with TIG and its the reason I purchased the TIG, I was burning holes all over the body with the MIG, friends said I used my MIG more like a Plasma cutter than a welder, never have that problem with the TIG. TIG can also weld so many more different metals and I think even does a stronger weld but that might be wishful thinking. mike On 01/20/2011 07:55 AM, Douglas Braun wrote: > Well, I went and got the HF $350-on-sale TIG machine last week, and > after playing with it for a week I do not regret buying it. The only > real downside is the lack of a foot pedal, but people have described > how to add one. > > So, I was wondering: do people think that a TIG/stick machine can > effectively replace a MIG machine? Can I put my MIG welder up in the > attic? What sort of tasks could a (120-volt) MIG machine do that a > 160-amp TIG/stick machine cannot do? I know the MIG is faster for > large jobs, but I always seem to have a bunch of little jobs. > > Also, I tried using the TIG as a "blue wrench", turning down the amps > a bit, and making the arc as long as possible. It seemed to work > pretty well. Is this a common practice, or some sort of horrible > abuse of the machine? The only downside I can see is that you need to > remember to use the right body/eye protection for yourself and any > spectators. > > How about brazing with a TIG, or soldering copper plumbing? > (I guess for must plumbing jobs, you want something more portable...) > > How about heating coffee or leftovers? :-) > > Doug > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Mike Rambour wrote: > > >> I also agree on not putting everything on one cart, it becomes way too >> heavy AND since I got my MIG, I have not used my oxy setup at all, same >> > once > >> I got the TIG, the MIG has sat unused for 6 years now, the torch close to >> > 10 > >> years. I would not get rid of the torch, it can come in handy as a blue >> wrench but I have considered selling the MIG. >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mikey at b2systems.com From jdrush at enter.net Thu Jan 20 15:35:37 2011 From: jdrush at enter.net (Rush) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:35:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D38B8B9.8020208@enter.net> Capitol supply lists a bunch of 'em. Jon On 1/3/2011 7:26 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, I use alot of PEX, copper, and CPVC pipes in my plumbing. I have > found the Watts connectors are the best thing since sliced bread (even > though they are pricey.) > > Here is my problem, I can NEVER find them. The only store that sells them > around me only gets about 2 a month (I'm serious.) I like to have at > least 10 of each on hand at all times. > > Home depot and Lowes used to carry them, but even though it's on their > website, it "store purchase only" and even stores with them listed only > have one or two in stock. > > Websites don't even seem to be able to offer them. Either they only have > them in 1" size, or they only carry the straight unions, or them charge an > arm and a leg for them. > > Here is the crazy thing, there seem to be 2 different part numbers for the > pieces and some list them as "not for concealed locations" and others say > "Approved for concealed, underground and no access panel." The part > numbers don't seem to match the code requirements. > > I'm looking for a source of these connectors that I can by 10 straight > unions, 10 elbows, and 4 valves, and 5 tees, all in 1/2OD that are > approved for concealed locations. > > Does anyone know of a good source of these? > > Here is a link to the Home Depot listing... > > < > http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pipes-Fittings-Valves/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1ZbqpfZ1z114tiZ1z114xd/R-100118014/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 >> > > The part numbers for the straight union seem to be P-600 or PL 3030 > > Finally, if someone can explain why such a great product is impossible to > get a hold of, I'd love to know. 8>) > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdrush at enter.net From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jan 20 15:52:15 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:52:15 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: <4D38B8B9.8020208@enter.net> References: <4D38B8B9.8020208@enter.net> Message-ID: <002101cbb8f4$af974ad0$0301a8c0@randall> > Capitol supply lists a bunch of 'em. > So does Rons Home & Hardware : http://tinyurl.com/6ekdnd7 Seems like they have adequate numbers in stock, too. -- Randall From eric at megageek.com Thu Jan 20 17:19:52 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 19:19:52 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: <002101cbb8f4$af974ad0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: In case I forgot to follow up, I went with Ron's hardware and it was a great transaction. Items came fast, price was the best I found. I bought alot of each, but they got them sent to me fast. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson "Randall" Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 01/20/2011 17:37 To cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy > Capitol supply lists a bunch of 'em. > So does Rons Home & Hardware : http://tinyurl.com/6ekdnd7 Seems like they have adequate numbers in stock, too. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From trevor at boicey.com Thu Jan 20 19:45:07 2011 From: trevor at boicey.com (Trevor Boicey) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:45:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D38F333.4020607@boicey.com> On 20/01/2011 7:19 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > In case I forgot to follow up, I went with Ron's hardware and it was a > great transaction. > > Items came fast, price was the best I found. I bought alot of each, but > they got them sent to me fast. Those are exactly the connector my coworker just had to run home to frantically dig out of his drywall because it sprung a leak. From jblair1948 at cox.net Fri Jan 21 06:01:29 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:01:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Liquid Level Controller Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110121075928.04f7dda0@cox.net> I think it was on this list, someone was looking for a way to measure basically fluid in a tank. I just came across this unit. Don't know if the need is still there, or if this will fill the bill, but I thought I'd pass it on. http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=K2639 John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri Jan 21 15:11:30 2011 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:11:30 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: <4D38F333.4020607@boicey.com> References: , <4D38F333.4020607@boicey.com> Message-ID: I think one of the links said they were not to be used where they are not accessable. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:45:07 -0500 > From: trevor at boicey.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy > > On 20/01/2011 7:19 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > In case I forgot to follow up, I went with Ron's hardware and it was a > > great transaction. > > > > Items came fast, price was the best I found. I bought alot of each, but > > they got them sent to me fast. > Those are exactly the connector my coworker just had to run home to > frantically dig out of his drywall because it sprung a leak. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 21 19:58:34 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:58:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Watts connectors and the great conspiracy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There seems to be two different types of connectors. One says it can be and the other says it can't. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From eric at megageek.com Fri Jan 21 20:10:46 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:10:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Snow Chains Message-ID: OK, so I made the mount for my trucks snow plow. The truck is a duellie, but not 4 wheel drive. While I do need to put more weight on the back, I was also thinking about getting a set of snow chains. Couple of questions... Should I get the snow chains made for duellie or just a set for the outside wheel? Should I get the 'V bar' or any other special types? (Note, the chains are not for highway use, they are just for me to plow the driveways here, one of which has a pretty steep hill. Any recommendations on where to buy them? Here are two places that seem OK... and Thanks. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From bolin at mwt.net Fri Jan 21 20:53:34 2011 From: bolin at mwt.net (Bob Jeffers) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:53:34 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Snow Chains In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38D2095F9B4049A6B1B49DDFA251436A@BobPC> As long as you only have 2 wheel drive I would get a set of triples that way you will always have a chain on the ground. Also if you put enough weight in the back and have no ice I don't think you will need chains. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 9:10 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Snow Chains > OK, so I made the mount for my trucks snow plow. > > The truck is a duellie, but not 4 wheel drive. While I do need to put > more weight on the back, I was also thinking about getting a set of snow > chains. > > Couple of questions... > > Should I get the snow chains made for duellie or just a set for the > outside wheel? > > Should I get the 'V bar' or any other special types? (Note, the chains > are not for highway use, they are just for me to plow the driveways here, > one of which has a pretty steep hill. > > Any recommendations on where to buy them? > > Here are two places that seem OK... > > > > and > > > > Thanks. > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bolin at mwt.net From vlm at te-motorworks.com Sat Jan 22 06:47:50 2011 From: vlm at te-motorworks.com (Vincent Marshall) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 08:47:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Snow Chains In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8361D1B8-CECC-4F09-8C78-FC588261C302@te-motorworks.com> Moose, I have an F Super Duty dually and can attest to how awful it is in the snow. Weight in the back will help but I've only gone as far as maybe 500 lbs of sand and it wasn't enough to make any real difference. You need a lot of weight. Let us know how you fare. I have been on the fence about this for years and am interested to hear how much of a difference they make for your truck. -vin -- TE Labs computer internet. On Jan 21, 2011, at 10:10 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, so I made the mount for my trucks snow plow. > > The truck is a duellie, but not 4 wheel drive. While I do need to put > more weight on the back, I was also thinking about getting a set of snow > chains. > > Couple of questions... > > Should I get the snow chains made for duellie or just a set for the > outside wheel? > > Should I get the 'V bar' or any other special types? (Note, the chains > are not for highway use, they are just for me to plow the driveways here, > one of which has a pretty steep hill. > > Any recommendations on where to buy them? > > Here are two places that seem OK... > > > > and > > > > Thanks. > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/vlm at te-motorworks.com From paul.mele at usermail.com Sat Jan 22 08:26:33 2011 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:26:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Snow Chains In-Reply-To: <8361D1B8-CECC-4F09-8C78-FC588261C302@te-motorworks.com> References: <8361D1B8-CECC-4F09-8C78-FC588261C302@te-motorworks.com> Message-ID: <001a01cbba48$c2b737b0$4825a710$@mele@usermail.com> from growing up in the snow belt, I'd bet that the improvement from "no chains" to "any chains" would be at least 10x better than "no weight" to "any weight"; the disadvantage to chains is trying to drive higher speed on dry pavement...which isn't an issue here; also, be mindful to only plow facing up the hill, as this keeps the rear wheels loaded; i.e. keep the driven wheels on the down-side of the hill/ incline for fun, try going up (hill) a slippery driveway with front wheel drive facing forward, then reverse ... <<< I have an F Super Duty dually and can attest to how awful it is in the snow. Weight in the back will help but I've only gone as far as maybe 500 lbs of sand and it wasn't enough to make any real difference. You need a lot of weight. Let us know how you fare. I have been on the fence about this for years and am interested to hear how much of a difference they make for your truck. From jibjib at att.net Sat Jan 22 10:46:09 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:46:09 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Snow Chains In-Reply-To: <001a01cbba48$c2b737b0$4825a710$@mele@usermail.com> References: <8361D1B8-CECC-4F09-8C78-FC588261C302@te-motorworks.com> <001a01cbba48$c2b737b0$4825a710$@mele@usermail.com> Message-ID: <83741FF05A8B4664B059EB9776D448AD@EntCent> > for fun, try going up (hill) a slippery driveway with front wheel > drive facing forward, then reverse ... This would be a good learning experience. I've driven up McCullough Pass in VT (VT-17 just west of Mad River Glen) BACKWARDS in my Saab, with front wheel drive and four snow tires, because it loaded the driving wheels (front, now in the back) the best. Going up forwards, I was thwarted several times and I really did not want to chain up. It was below zero. Oh, all three of us were in the front seats and some of the heavy luggage from the trunk was in the back seat. It was a comical sight, but we were able to drive right up, where we couldn't in the normal driving configuration. Jack From pethier at comcast.net Sun Jan 23 22:22:26 2011 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 05:22:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Snow Chains In-Reply-To: <861337137.1731820.1295846440560.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2002716128.1731882.1295846546730.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Did that in Duluth one winter night bringing a buddy home from the ice race in Thunder Bay Ontario, and up a wet clay hill at Road Atlanta at the 1971 Runoffs. Just saw a 1968 SAAB 96 on bringatrailer.com that looked just like the old car. No, I'm not buying it... Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UB "uncle jack" 2004 Suburban 8.1 2005 Lotus Elise 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org http://www.mnautox.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Brooks" > To: "shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net" > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:46:09 AM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Snow Chains > > > for fun, try going up (hill) a slippery driveway with front wheel > > drive facing forward, then reverse ... > > This would be a good learning experience. > > I've driven up McCullough Pass in VT (VT-17 just west of Mad River > Glen) > BACKWARDS in my Saab, with front wheel drive and four snow tires, > because it > loaded the driving wheels (front, now in the back) the best. Going > up > forwards, I was thwarted several times and I really did not want to > chain > up. It was below zero. > > Oh, all three of us were in the front seats and some of the heavy > luggage > from the trunk was in the back seat. It was a comical sight, but we > were > able to drive right up, where we couldn't in the normal driving > configuration. > > Jack From eric at megageek.com Mon Jan 24 13:03:02 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:03:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart follow up Message-ID: OK, so I finally switched the HF welding cart for a more traditional one. Then I made a few easy mods to it to make it more welding friendly. For now, I just added some 'ears' for the cables, but as I see more needs for it, I will make them as well. Here is a link to a couple quick pictures of it... As always, this is only temporary, unless it works! 8>) PS, The plasma cutter is AWESOME for light sheet metal and such. If you don't have a plasma cutter and have $500, then this is the one to get. If you can't swing it right now, add the plasma cutter to your next b'day wish list, Christmas list, or wedding registry!!! 8>) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From paul.mele at usermail.com Mon Jan 24 16:35:13 2011 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:35:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart follow up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003101cbbc1f$59b4a490$0d1dedb0$@mele@usermail.com> nice addition...I will copy.. <> From pat at hornesystemstx.com Mon Jan 24 17:53:33 2011 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:53:33 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart follow up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3E1F0D.6040906@hornesystemstx.com> Looks great! how well does it roll around? I guess you use flux core wire. I didn't see a gas bottle. Did you combine the power cords, or do you need to swap plugs while working? Peace, Pat Thusly spake eric at megageek.com, On 1/24/2011 2:03 PM: > OK, so I finally switched the HF welding cart for a more traditional one. > Then I made a few easy mods to it to make it more welding friendly. > > For now, I just added some 'ears' for the cables, but as I see more needs > for it, I will make them as well. > > Here is a link to a couple quick pictures of it... > > > > As always, this is only temporary, unless it works! > > 8>) > > > PS, The plasma cutter is AWESOME for light sheet metal and such. If you > don't have a plasma cutter and have $500, then this is the one to get. If > you can't swing it right now, add the plasma cutter to your next b'day > wish list, Christmas list, or wedding registry!!! 8>) > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From eric at megageek.com Mon Jan 24 18:20:38 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:20:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart follow up In-Reply-To: <4D3E1F0D.6040906@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: It rolls around fine in the flat shop floor. It's not that great on the uneven snow/ice covered pavement however. I do use flux cord for most of my 'quick' and/or small stuff. I though about adding the OXY AC bottles to it, but the advice here made sense. (Once I have the plasma cutter, I will not use it nearly as much.) I didn't put the bottle on it put I could have. If I was to do it again, I would consider a bigger cart, but I also like having a smaller cart that is east to maneuver around objects in the shop. I'll be adding a "power station" to it later. Both 230v units will go into a switch box and then only one plug out (I'm open to better ideas suggestions from here, however.) The 120 stuff will all be on a HD power strip. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Pat Horne Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 01/24/2011 20:02 Please respond to pat at hornesystemstx.com To shop-talk at autox.team.net cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Welding cart follow up Looks great! how well does it roll around? I guess you use flux core wire. I didn't see a gas bottle. Did you combine the power cords, or do you need to swap plugs while working? Peace, Pat Thusly spake eric at megageek.com, On 1/24/2011 2:03 PM: > OK, so I finally switched the HF welding cart for a more traditional one. > Then I made a few easy mods to it to make it more welding friendly. > > For now, I just added some 'ears' for the cables, but as I see more needs > for it, I will make them as well. > > Here is a link to a couple quick pictures of it... > > < http://www.megageek.com/photo/photoa~1.nsf/e3ec633d63693afb85256ba700060663/50ee7ccbdb32e57285257822006bfaaf?OpenDocument > > > As always, this is only temporary, unless it works! > > 8>) > > > PS, The plasma cutter is AWESOME for light sheet metal and such. If you > don't have a plasma cutter and have $500, then this is the one to get. If > you can't swing it right now, add the plasma cutter to your next b'day > wish list, Christmas list, or wedding registry!!! 8>) > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson From rwil at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 24 23:03:38 2011 From: rwil at sbcglobal.net (Roland Wilhelmy) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:03:38 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] turn off the bubble machine Message-ID: Ever since I had a new electric water heater installed there has been "air" in the water lines. This is long after the tank has been filled and all the air bled out of the system. Every time that we draw hot water after it has been unused for 8 hours or more, just as the water from the tap turns hot a whole lot of "air" bubbles out too over the next minute or so of flow. Has anyone on the list encountered this? I assume that some sort of electrolytic reaction is generating the "air". A google search didn't come up with anything beside that fact that sacrificial anodes are attacked more fiercely if the tank is supplied with soft water. Something about the salt. But nothing about anything generating all this "air". We do have softened water. I am going to call the plumbers who installed the heater but I would feel better if I had some idea of what is going on before I call them. -Roland From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Jan 25 00:07:18 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 23:07:18 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] turn off the bubble machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <028a01cbbc5e$817afda0$0301a8c0@randall> Check out some of these links: http://tinyurl.com/4rx8bbj A house grounding problem or electrical problem with the heater seems more likely to me, but I certainly don't claim to be an expert. -- Randall From bspidell at comcast.net Tue Jan 25 06:25:45 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 05:25:45 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight Message-ID: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> HF and their products' quality--or lack thereof--come up as a topic every now and then. I think they're good for tools you use once in a lifetime or the occasional quality product at a decent price. However, the last two internet orders I've placed had serious issues. In both cases they charged me for, and shipped, something not even close to what I ordered. The last time I ordered a power steering pump pulley puller set and they sent a sheet metal screw assortment! The items are, obviously, completely different and the part numbers weren't even close (and the wrong items shipped were quite a bit less expensive than what I ordered). Anybody else having similar problems? It seems like they're using blind monkeys to pull their stuff for shipment. In both cases a call to customer service straightened things out, and they had me keep the wrong items--whether I needed/wanted them or not--but I wonder if they were to send me a compressor or welder instead of the box of O-rings I ordered if they'd be so generous. bs ****************************************************************** Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Jan 25 07:26:27 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:26:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight In-Reply-To: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> References: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D3EDD93.4060204@xxiii.com> On 1/25/2011 8:25 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > customer service straightened things out, and they had me keep the wrong > items--whether I needed/wanted them or not--but I wonder if they were to > send me a compressor or welder instead of the box of O-rings I ordered > if they'd be so generous. Hmmm... your (our) task is to figure out what product is the MOST OPPOSITE of a welder, and order that, and hope for another screw up. I say "lawn sprinkler" or "ornamental windmill" -W From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 25 07:29:50 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:29:50 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight In-Reply-To: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> References: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> Message-ID: Bob Bob Bob.... when have you EVER seen a situation when a compressor would work when you needed an O-ring ??? but it would be nice, wouldn't it john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Spidell" To: "Shop-Talk" Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:25 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight > HF and their products' quality--or lack thereof--come up as a topic every > now and then. I think they're good for tools you use once in a lifetime > or the occasional quality product at a decent price. However, the last > two internet orders I've placed had serious issues. In both cases they > charged me for, and shipped, something not even close to what I ordered. > The last time I ordered a power steering pump pulley puller set and they > sent a sheet metal screw assortment! The items are, obviously, completely > different and the part numbers weren't even close (and the wrong items > shipped were quite a bit less expensive than what I ordered). > > Anybody else having similar problems? It seems like they're using blind > monkeys to pull their stuff for shipment. In both cases a call to > customer service straightened things out, and they had me keep the wrong > items--whether I needed/wanted them or not--but I wonder if they were to > send me a compressor or welder instead of the box of O-rings I ordered if > they'd be so generous. > > > bs > > ****************************************************************** > Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net > > ******************************************************************* > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1202 / Virus Database: 1435/3400 - Release Date: 01/24/11 From bspidell at comcast.net Tue Jan 25 07:41:20 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 06:41:20 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight In-Reply-To: References: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D3EE110.6050006@comcast.net> Well, compressors usually have a few O-rings in them .... bs On 1/25/2011 6:29 AM, john niolon wrote: > Bob Bob Bob.... when have you EVER seen a situation when a compressor would work when you needed an O-ring ??? but > it would be nice, wouldn't it > > john > > > >> HF and their products' quality--or lack thereof--come up as a topic every now and then. I think they're good for >> tools you use once in a lifetime or the occasional quality product at a decent price. However, the last two internet >> orders I've placed had serious issues. In both cases they charged me for, and shipped, something not even close to >> what I ordered. The last time I ordered a power steering pump pulley puller set and they sent a sheet metal screw >> assortment! The items are, obviously, completely different and the part numbers weren't even close (and the wrong >> items shipped were quite a bit less expensive than what I ordered). >> >> Anybody else having similar problems? It seems like they're using blind monkeys to pull their stuff for shipment. >> In both cases a call to customer service straightened things out, and they had me keep the wrong items--whether I >> needed/wanted them or not--but I wonder if they were to send me a compressor or welder instead of the box of O-rings >> I ordered if they'd be so generous. >> >> >> bs >> >> ****************************************************************** >> Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net >> >> ******************************************************************* >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 25 08:07:10 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:07:10 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight In-Reply-To: <4D3EDD93.4060204@xxiii.com> References: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> <4D3EDD93.4060204@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <90D43830279642D9A85003022B550CFA@OwnerPC> that e-lektronick fly swatter might get you a decent lathe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne" To: "Shop Talk List" Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight > On 1/25/2011 8:25 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: >> customer service straightened things out, and they had me keep the wrong >> items--whether I needed/wanted them or not--but I wonder if they were to >> send me a compressor or welder instead of the box of O-rings I ordered >> if they'd be so generous. > > Hmmm... your (our) task is to figure out what product is the MOST OPPOSITE > of a welder, and order that, and hope for another screw up. I say "lawn > sprinkler" or "ornamental windmill" > > -W > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1202 / Virus Database: 1435/3400 - Release Date: 01/24/11 From davidgschmidt at yahoo.com Tue Jan 25 08:08:25 2011 From: davidgschmidt at yahoo.com (David Schmidt) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:08:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight Message-ID: <171029.49919.qm@web39307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To quote from M*A*S*H bWe order rectal thermometers, we get spark plugs. Both useful items, but hardly interchangeable.b - Colonel Sherman Potter From: Bob Spidell To: john niolon Cc: shop-talk Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight Well, compressors usually have a few O-rings in them .... bs On 1/25/2011 6:29 AM, john niolon wrote: > Bob Bob Bob.... when have you EVER seen a situation when a compressor would work when you needed an O-ring ??? but it would be nice, wouldn't it > > john > > > >> HF and their products' quality--or lack thereof--come up as a topic every now and then. I think they're good for tools you use once in a lifetime or the occasional quality product at a decent price. However, the last two internet orders I've placed had serious issues. In both cases they charged me for, and shipped, something not even close to what I ordered. The last time I ordered a power steering pump pulley puller set and they sent a sheet metal screw assortment! The items are, obviously, completely different and the part numbers weren't even close (and the wrong items shipped were quite a bit less expensive than what I ordered). >> >> Anybody else having similar problems? It seems like they're using blind monkeys to pull their stuff for shipment. In both cases a call to customer service straightened things out, and they had me keep the wrong items--whether I needed/wanted them or not--but I wonder if they were to send me a compressor or welder instead of the box of O-rings I ordered if they'd be so generous. >> >> >> bs >> >> ****************************************************************** >> Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net >> >> ******************************************************************* >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/davidgschmidt at yahoo.com From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Jan 25 08:16:02 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:16:02 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] vice paint Message-ID: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> I've got an old Prentiss #56 bull dog vise that I've cleaned up and want to mount on an outdoor workbench... I first tried painting with hammered finish Krylon but after about a year in the elements the Krylon is looking tired. Recommend a good paint for this beauty that will endure the elements... live in the South so it's mostly sun/rain to deal with... Epoxy based ?? some exotic stuff ?? I tried the heated linseed oil coating and wasn't pleased with the look.. I like shiney ! thanks John The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 09:18:39 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:18:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight In-Reply-To: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> References: <4D3ECF59.3080206@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: . > > Anybody else having similar problems? B It seems like they're using blind > monkeys to pull their stuff for shipment. B In both cases a call to customer > service straightened things out, and they had me keep the wrong > items--whether I needed/wanted them or not--but I wonder if they were to > send me a compressor or welder instead of the box of O-rings I ordered if > they'd be so generous. Probably not. Mispicks and mis packs happen in any warehouse, though. One I did programming work for had a bug (not my fault!) that sometimes caused the shipping labels to not match the pick lists. So tens or hundreds of orders would get picked and packed, with someone else's order in the box. Very annoying, and it took a long time to figure out what was really happening. > > > bs > > ****************************************************************** > Bob Spidell B B B B B San Jose, CA B B B B B B bspidell at comcast.net > > ******************************************************************* > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation B $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com > > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Jan 25 09:21:36 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:21:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] vice paint In-Reply-To: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> References: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D3EF890.705@xxiii.com> On 1/25/2011 10:16 AM, john niolon wrote: > Recommend a good paint for this beauty that will endure the elements... live > in the South so it's mostly sun/rain to deal with... Epoxy based ?? some > exotic stuff ?? I tried the heated linseed oil coating and wasn't pleased > with the look.. I like shiney ! Powder coat? Just be sure to use a UV resistant one, or clear coat with one that is. I've had good luck with stuff from these guys: http://www.columbiacoatings.com/category_s/5.htm -wayne From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jan 25 09:28:28 2011 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:28:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cart follow up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1691015211.1812821.1295972908285.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > this is only temporary, unless it works This is the single greatest line ever posted on this list. I'm stealing it. phil ethier From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Jan 25 09:53:58 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:53:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] vice paint In-Reply-To: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> References: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Buy a $5 can of glossy black Krylon, and use it to respray the vise once a year. Your long-term annual cost will probably be less than if you painted it once with a fancy $25 epoxy paint... Doug On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:16 AM, john niolon wrote: > I've got an old Prentiss #56 bull dog vise that I've cleaned up and want to > mount on an outdoor workbench... I first tried painting with hammered finish > Krylon but after about a year in the elements the Krylon is looking tired. > > Recommend a good paint for this beauty that will endure the elements... live > in the South so it's mostly sun/rain to deal with... Epoxy based ?? some > exotic stuff ?? I tried the heated linseed oil coating and wasn't pleased > with the look.. I like shiney ! > > thanks > John From jem at milleredp.com Tue Jan 25 10:29:28 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:29:28 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] vice paint In-Reply-To: References: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D3F0878.5000805@milleredp.com> On 1/25/2011 8:53 AM, Douglas Braun wrote: > Buy a $5 can of glossy black Krylon, and use it to respray the vise once a > year. > Your long-term annual cost will probably be less than if you painted > it once with a fancy $25 epoxy paint... I guess my thought on the subject is ... 'Vise? What do you do on a vise? Well, you pound things and you saw things and you wrench things and even when you don't intend to do so the tools are banging on the thing." A nicely painted vise might make a good piece of yard art, maybe on top of a gatepost or something, but not somewhere you're going to use it... My old shop vise is a Chinese something-or-another, one of the first things I ever bought at what was then Price Club before it merged with Costco 20-plus years ago. I was rather surprised to find the first time I hit it with a hammer a chunk of filler came off. Yeah, they'd bondoed the not-too-pretty casting to make it look better. Probably full of asbestos and God knows what else. At any rate, the vise still works, though most of the bondo and much of the paint has chipped off in the intervening lifetime. John. From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Jan 25 10:48:07 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:48:07 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] vice paint In-Reply-To: References: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <003801cbbcb8$06688ab0$1339a010$@ameritech.net> Rust Oleum. Don't know how well their hammered finish holds up outside, but their regular colors hold up just great outdoors here in the frozen north, with sun, rain, snow, ice, and dog pee. If rust is an issue, their Rust Reformer (or many other similar products) kill the rust and act as a primer. Karl On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:16 AM, john niolon wrote: > I've got an old Prentiss #56 bull dog vise that I've cleaned up and > want to mount on an outdoor workbench... I first tried painting with > hammered finish > Krylon but after about a year in the elements the Krylon is looking tired. > > Recommend a good paint for this beauty that will endure the elements... live > in the South so it's mostly sun/rain to deal with... Epoxy based ?? > some exotic stuff ?? I tried the heated linseed oil coating and > wasn't pleased with the look.. I like shiney ! > > thanks > John From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 10:57:48 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:57:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] vice paint In-Reply-To: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> References: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:16 AM, john niolon wrote: > I've got an old Prentiss #56 bull dog vise that I've cleaned up and want to > mount on an outdoor workbench... B I first tried painting with hammered finish > Krylon but after about a year in the elements the Krylon is looking tired. > > Recommend a good paint for this beauty that will endure the elements... live > in the South so it's mostly sun/rain to deal with... B Epoxy based ?? B some > exotic stuff ?? B I tried the heated linseed oil coating and wasn't pleased > with the look.. B I like shiney ! Original paint was almost certainly a red lead primer, coated with a lead bearing top coat. Good surface prep and an epoxy based primer, properly applied, will work as well. On the other hand, paint isn't going to last on an actively used vise, so plan on painting it regularly. > > thanks > John > > > > The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the > people, > it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation B $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com > > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jibjib at att.net Tue Jan 25 17:39:30 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:39:30 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] vice paint In-Reply-To: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> References: <31F2F7E65829495F83A760380D25CA5D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <3600B222BC4B4BBE88551DCDB186055F@EntCent> I'd be looking at a zinc rich urethane based paint like many folks use on car undercarriages. The zinc will help avoid rust from starting in scratches, etc. I think the original application is a steel coating for bridges. Some are UV stable, some are not and need top coating. Either way, however, pounding is going to take it's toll on any finish. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:16 AM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] vice paint I've got an old Prentiss #56 bull dog vise that I've cleaned up and want to mount on an outdoor workbench... I first tried painting with hammered finish Krylon but after about a year in the elements the Krylon is looking tired. Recommend a good paint for this beauty that will endure the elements... live in the South so it's mostly sun/rain to deal with... Epoxy based ?? some exotic stuff ?? I tried the heated linseed oil coating and wasn't pleased with the look.. I like shiney ! thanks John The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Jan 25 19:49:29 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:49:29 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? Message-ID: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Who makes the best dishwasher today ? Our present KitchenAid Superba dates to about 2003. The 1977 Superba it replaced only needed one timer, one soap door, and one set of racks in 26 years. About 7 years ago we replaced it with another Superba, as we were about to redo the kitchen anyway and the pump finally went out on our old one. In 26 years, it only needed one timer, a soap door, and one set of racks because of rust. We used all KitchenAid when we redid our kitchen in 2005, and everything else has been great. This one is nothing like the quality of our old one. I replaced the pump and motor at 3 years, replaced the door seal, the nylon cable mechanisms that pull the door up, the water manifold and top spray bar, and un-warped the middle spray bar. I've repaired the plastic rack adjusters many times, and they've lived with zip ties holding them together for years. Now the pump is going again - it doesn't wash stuff on the top rack worth a darn. And the racks are rusting already. I'm tired of throwing good money after bad. Rather than replace racks and a second pump in 7 years, I'd prefer to replace the dishwasher. With parts prices, I'd be spending well over $200 just to buy another 3-4 years till the pump fails again. Damn cheap plastic crap. But what do we buy ?? We want a top-of-the-line dishwasher, but have no experience with any other brands. Who makes a great dishwasher today ? Thanks in advance !! Karl Pilots - Looking down on people since 1903 From parkanzky at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 20:54:23 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:54:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: Karl, We bought a Bosch when we purchased this (new construction) home in 2007 and we really love it. It does a fantastic job of cleaning our dishes and nothing has broken yet. It's just one data point, but we're really pleased with it and we'd buy another. -Paul On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Karl Vacek wrote: > Who makes the best dishwasher today ? > > > > Our present KitchenAid Superba dates to about 2003. The 1977 Superba it > replaced only needed one timer, one soap door, and one set of racks in 26 > years. > > > > About 7 years ago we replaced it with another Superba, as we were about to > redo the kitchen anyway and the pump finally went out on our old one. In 26 > years, it only needed one timer, a soap door, and one set of racks because > of rust. We used all KitchenAid when we redid our kitchen in 2005, and > everything else has been great. > > > > This one is nothing like the quality of our old one. I replaced the pump > and motor at 3 years, replaced the door seal, the nylon cable mechanisms > that pull the door up, the water manifold and top spray bar, and un-warped > the middle spray bar. I've repaired the plastic rack adjusters many times, > and they've lived with zip ties holding them together for years. Now the > pump is going again - it doesn't wash stuff on the top rack worth a darn. > And the racks are rusting already. > > > > I'm tired of throwing good money after bad. Rather than replace racks and a > second pump in 7 years, I'd prefer to replace the dishwasher. With parts > prices, I'd be spending well over $200 just to buy another 3-4 years till > the pump fails again. Damn cheap plastic crap. > > > > But what do we buy ?? We want a top-of-the-line dishwasher, but have no > experience with any other brands. > > > > Who makes a great dishwasher today ? > > > > Thanks in advance !! > > Karl From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Tue Jan 25 21:17:25 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:17:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <346271.64329.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> One more data point, we have a 2000 Kitchenaid Superba that I replaced the door balance cords and the pump/motor (total price of $180 year ago -- it still was working but not cleaning as well). The replacement motor was .5 amps lower draw and a couple hundred RPM's faster. It uses less power now, is quieter and cleans very well. We are very pleased with it. This model is a few years older than the one you have, so clearly they could have scrimped on the later/newer models. We have the original racks, soap dispenser, etc. Just one data point... :) best, doug ____________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 ________________________________ From: Paul Parkanzky To: KVacek at ameritech.net Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 7:54:23 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? Karl, We bought a Bosch when we purchased this (new construction) home in 2007 and we really love it. It does a fantastic job of cleaning our dishes and nothing has broken yet. It's just one data point, but we're really pleased with it and we'd buy another. -Paul On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Karl Vacek wrote: > Who makes the best dishwasher today ? > > > > Our present KitchenAid Superba dates to about 2003. The 1977 Superba it > replaced only needed one timer, one soap door, and one set of racks in 26 > years. > > > > About 7 years ago we replaced it with another Superba, as we were about to > redo the kitchen anyway and the pump finally went out on our old one. In 26 > years, it only needed one timer, a soap door, and one set of racks because > of rust. We used all KitchenAid when we redid our kitchen in 2005, and > everything else has been great. > > > > This one is nothing like the quality of our old one. I replaced the pump > and motor at 3 years, replaced the door seal, the nylon cable mechanisms > that pull the door up, the water manifold and top spray bar, and un-warped > the middle spray bar. I've repaired the plastic rack adjusters many times, > and they've lived with zip ties holding them together for years. Now the > pump is going again - it doesn't wash stuff on the top rack worth a darn. > And the racks are rusting already. > > > > I'm tired of throwing good money after bad. Rather than replace racks and a > second pump in 7 years, I'd prefer to replace the dishwasher. With parts > prices, I'd be spending well over $200 just to buy another 3-4 years till > the pump fails again. Damn cheap plastic crap. > > > > But what do we buy ?? We want a top-of-the-line dishwasher, but have no > experience with any other brands. > > > > Who makes a great dishwasher today ? > > > > Thanks in advance !! > > Karl _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From rickfriz at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 21:46:20 2011 From: rickfriz at gmail.com (Richard Frisicano) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:46:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: Karl, I can second that. We've only had our Bosch for about a year, but we love it. Very, very quiet. You don't even know it's running. Rick On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: > Karl, > > We bought a Bosch when we purchased this (new construction) home in > 2007 and we really love it. It does a fantastic job of cleaning our > dishes and nothing has broken yet. > > It's just one data point, but we're really pleased with it and we'd buy > another. > > -Paul > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Karl Vacek wrote: > > Who makes the best dishwasher today ? > > > > > > > > Our present KitchenAid Superba dates to about 2003. The 1977 Superba it > > replaced only needed one timer, one soap door, and one set of racks in 26 > > years. > > > > > > > > About 7 years ago we replaced it with another Superba, as we were about > to > > redo the kitchen anyway and the pump finally went out on our old one. In > 26 > > years, it only needed one timer, a soap door, and one set of racks > because > > of rust. We used all KitchenAid when we redid our kitchen in 2005, and > > everything else has been great. > > > > > > > > This one is nothing like the quality of our old one. I replaced the pump > > and motor at 3 years, replaced the door seal, the nylon cable mechanisms > > that pull the door up, the water manifold and top spray bar, and > un-warped > > the middle spray bar. I've repaired the plastic rack adjusters many > times, > > and they've lived with zip ties holding them together for years. Now the > > pump is going again - it doesn't wash stuff on the top rack worth a darn. > > And the racks are rusting already. > > > > > > > > I'm tired of throwing good money after bad. Rather than replace racks > and > a > > second pump in 7 years, I'd prefer to replace the dishwasher. With parts > > prices, I'd be spending well over $200 just to buy another 3-4 years till > > the pump fails again. Damn cheap plastic crap. > > > > > > > > But what do we buy ?? We want a top-of-the-line dishwasher, but have no > > experience with any other brands. > > > > > > > > Who makes a great dishwasher today ? > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance !! > > > > Karl > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rickfriz at gmail.com From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jan 25 22:17:19 2011 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 05:17:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <1719520054.1859304.1296019039493.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have the same question. Our Frigidaire is getting long in the tooth and we'd like to replace it with something decent. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UB "uncle jack" 2004 Suburban 8.1 2005 Lotus Elise 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org http://www.mnautox.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karl Vacek" > We want a top-of-the-line dishwasher, but have > no > experience with any other brands. > > > > Who makes a great dishwasher today ? > > > > Thanks in advance !! > > Karl From jem at milleredp.com Tue Jan 25 22:26:05 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 21:26:05 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <346271.64329.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <346271.64329.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D3FB06D.3090709@milleredp.com> On 1/25/2011 8:17 PM, old dirtbeard wrote: > One more data point, we have a 2000 Kitchenaid Superba that I replaced the door > balance cords and the pump/motor (total price of $180 year ago -- it still was > working but not cleaning as well). We have had three Kitchenaid dishwashers over the years, the current one is a KUDP01FL (the cheapest of the high-end models with stainless tub and controls on top of the door), dates to 2003 when we did the remodel, gets run about three times a week, so far no complaints. The only service work I've had to do on it was to clean out the grinder when bits of a plastic fork got in there. I kept the last one out in the side yard outside the shop to wash shop implements until it finally got too nasty to keep around any longer, it just went out a few weeks ago. John. From Bob at texmog.com Tue Jan 25 23:20:27 2011 From: Bob at texmog.com (Bob Nogueira) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:20:27 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> Our three year old Kitchenaide has had the main control board replaced twice. The tech told me it was really a design flaw in that the vent is just above the board and the moisture gets to the board. I've had too take out an extended warrantee on it since it doesn't seem to be able to go more than a year without a service call. While not a dishwasher, I'd stay away from GE. In three years the microwave has had one service call and the door is now rusting out. Our GE vent hood runs fine but the bulbs only last a couple of months and cost $5.00 apiece. After our kitchen remodel I determined it would be cheaper to eat out ever night. Bob Nogueira On Jan 25, 2011, at 9:54 PM, Paul Parkanzky wrote: > Karl, > > We bought a Bosch when we purchased this (new construction) home in > 2007 and we really love it. It does a fantastic job of cleaning our > dishes and nothing has broken yet. > > It's just one data point, but we're really pleased with it and we'd buy > another. > > -Paul > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Karl Vacek wrote: >> Who makes the best dishwasher today ? >> >> >> >> Our present KitchenAid Superba dates to about 2003. The 1977 Superba it >> replaced only needed one timer, one soap door, and one set of racks in 26 >> years. >> >> >> >> About 7 years ago we replaced it with another Superba, as we were about to >> redo the kitchen anyway and the pump finally went out on our old one. In > 26 >> years, it only needed one timer, a soap door, and one set of racks because >> of rust. We used all KitchenAid when we redid our kitchen in 2005, and >> everything else has been great. >> >> >> >> This one is nothing like the quality of our old one. I replaced the pump >> and motor at 3 years, replaced the door seal, the nylon cable mechanisms >> that pull the door up, the water manifold and top spray bar, and un-warped >> the middle spray bar. I've repaired the plastic rack adjusters many times, >> and they've lived with zip ties holding them together for years. Now the >> pump is going again - it doesn't wash stuff on the top rack worth a darn. >> And the racks are rusting already. >> >> >> >> I'm tired of throwing good money after bad. Rather than replace racks and > a >> second pump in 7 years, I'd prefer to replace the dishwasher. With parts >> prices, I'd be spending well over $200 just to buy another 3-4 years till >> the pump fails again. Damn cheap plastic crap. >> >> >> >> But what do we buy ?? We want a top-of-the-line dishwasher, but have no >> experience with any other brands. >> >> >> >> Who makes a great dishwasher today ? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance !! >> >> Karl > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bob at texmog.com From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Wed Jan 26 00:01:08 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 01:01:08 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> Message-ID: <4D3FC6B4.2020907@tx.rr.com> Our 5 or 6 year old GE has had no problems. From jem at milleredp.com Wed Jan 26 00:28:46 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:28:46 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> Message-ID: <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> On 1/25/2011 10:20 PM, Bob Nogueira wrote: > Our three year old Kitchenaide has had the main control board replaced twice. > The tech told me it was really a design flaw in that the vent is just above > the board and the moisture gets to the board. > I've had too take out an extended warrantee on it since it doesn't seem to be > able to go more than a year without a service call. While we haven't had any difficulties with our 2003 Kitchenaid I agree that the electronic controls do seem to be a sore point on many recent appliances. We just purchased a new LG washer and dryer and for I think the first time on any appliance purchase I did buy an extended service agreement. > While not a dishwasher, I'd stay away from GE. In three years the microwave > has had one service call and the door is now rusting out. Our GE vent hood > runs fine but the bulbs only last a couple of months and cost $5.00 apiece. Our Wolf cooktop works fine; the Wolf oven cooks well but the control panel's a bit hard to read at times and it's got a big nasty thermal-expansion BANG! from time to time. I suppose I should try to do something about it... Our Sub-Zero fridge is old enough to drive now, it needed a new compressor a few weeks after it was first installed back in '94. It didn't respond too well to being shut down and put in storage during our '03 remodel, shortly after it went back in I found a lot of the sealant the refrigerator cabinet had been built with had peeled loose and was allowing water to leak around the seal onto the floor so I had to clean it out and reseal the seams, then it needed a new icemaker, then it needed a new freezer thermostat, and about a year ago it needed a new refrigerator thermostat. I'm sure it's not up to the latest EnergyStar whatever but the general layout of the thing is pretty Stone Age and easily worked on. Our range hoods are these custom-made Swedish Abbaka things, the one over the main cooktop is about 14 feet high (no fans in the hood, it uses this roof-mounted Ventahood R2D2 of a blower.) When I had the framing guys hang it and block it I could push it back and forth a couple inches at the bottom, so it was out to the shop with the chop-saw and now it's hung from a welded-and-bolted steel frame that extends six-plus feet along and across the roof trusses and I can budge it maybe 1/4in if I really push. > After our kitchen remodel I determined it would be cheaper to eat out ever > night. Yeah, I can empathize with that sentiment. John. From lspector at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 05:20:31 2011 From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:20:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: One more satisfied Bosch customer here. We bought ours about a year ago too, it's very quiet and does a decent job of cleaning dishes. A couple of nits about it- there's no heated dry option. It's supposedly an energy saver, but it means I usually need to dry off at least a few of the dishes. It's also got no food grinder, which is part of why it's so quiet. There are a couple of strainers that need to be cleaned out once in a while. No big deal if you rinse before you put stuff in, but something to be aware of. -Larry On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Richard Frisicano wrote: > Karl, > I can second that. We've only had our Bosch for about a year, but we love > it. Very, very quiet. You don't even know it's running. > Rick > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Paul Parkanzky >wrote: > > > Karl, > > > > We bought a Bosch when we purchased this (new construction) home in > > 2007 and we really love it. It does a fantastic job of cleaning our > > dishes and nothing has broken yet. > > > > It's just one data point, but we're really pleased with it and we'd buy > > another. > > > > -Paul > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Karl Vacek > wrote: > > > Who makes the best dishwasher today ? From jamesf at groupwbench.org Wed Jan 26 06:09:36 2011 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:09:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cast iron boiler? Message-ID: My steam boiler has a 1/4" hole at the top. Predictably, all the tradespeople say it can't be welded, must be replaced. Also predictably, my new landlord doesn't want to replace this, so she's looking for the lowest estimate, which will get her a crappy install, and problems very soon. Can this be welded to buy her some time, ideally to the end of April or so? thanks From shop at shariconglobal.com Wed Jan 26 06:56:01 2011 From: shop at shariconglobal.com (Aric) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:56:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cast iron boiler? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Drill / tap / plug? > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Franklin > > My steam boiler has a 1/4" hole at the top. From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Jan 26 07:03:32 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:03:32 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cast iron boiler? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004501cbbd61$d1742bc0$745c8340$@ameritech.net> I presume it's a low-pressure boiler, which are usually set around 5-7 PSI. If it's higher pressure, it's gotta be done right, not patched. Is it in a place where you could install a repair plug ? http://www.wmharvey.com/prod/cat11/sillcock_handles/boiler_parts.php Or is it small enough to drill and tap the hole and install a pipe plug ? Karl -----Original Message----- From: Jim Franklin Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cast iron boiler? My steam boiler has a 1/4" hole at the top. Predictably, all the tradespeople say it can't be welded, must be replaced. Also predictably, my new landlord doesn't want to replace this, so she's looking for the lowest estimate, which will get her a crappy install, and problems very soon. Can this be welded to buy her some time, ideally to the end of April or so? From scottmryan at netzero.net Wed Jan 26 07:54:34 2011 From: scottmryan at netzero.net (scottmryan) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:54:34 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cast iron boiler? References: Message-ID: very possibly this could be brazed, as well, but I would think drilling and tapping with a plug would be best, less chance of cracking it.Scott R PS: As Karl Vacek said, that's assuming it's low pressure (which I would guess a cast iron boiler would be) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Franklin" To: "shop-talk List" Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:09 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding cast iron boiler? > My steam boiler has a 1/4" hole at the top. Predictably, all the > tradespeople > say it can't be welded, must be replaced. Also predictably, my new > landlord > doesn't want to replace this, so she's looking for the lowest estimate, > which > will get her a crappy install, and problems very soon. Can this be welded > to > buy her some time, ideally to the end of April or so? > > thanks ____________________________________________________________ Mortgage Rates Hit 2.99% If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Gov't Refi Programs http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d403615d655e8b4ef5st05vuc From whesr at iglou.com Wed Jan 26 09:32:24 2011 From: whesr at iglou.com (Bill Engle Sr) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:32:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <346271.64329.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <346271.64329.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I bought a new GE when I remodeled the kitchen in 2004, mid range price, it has not missed a beat. Bill On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Karl Vacek wrote: > Who makes the best dishwasher today ? > > > > Our present KitchenAid Superba dates to about 2003. The 1977 Superba it > replaced only needed one timer, one soap door, and one set of racks in 26 > years. From jem at milleredp.com Wed Jan 26 09:56:56 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:56:56 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> > A couple of nits about it- there's no heated dry option. It's supposedly an > energy saver, but it means I usually need to dry off at least a few of the > dishes. It's also got no food grinder, which is part of why it's so quiet. The latter point is why we stuck with Kitchenaid for our latest go-round in 2003. John. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 10:42:03 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:42:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> Message-ID: (This isn't directly related to particular dishwashers or picking one, just seems like a suitable time to bring it up.) One thing to think about with a dishwasher that's not working as well as it used to is the detergent. In the first half of last year, the use of phosphates in dishwasher detergents was phased out. Phosphates in dishwashers soften the water, which make the rising work better, and generally increase the performance of the detergent. If your dishwasher has recently stopped working well, it's entirely possible your detergent just sucks. Try something else. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Jan 26 10:49:31 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:49:31 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <00a401cbbd81$63705c50$2a5114f0$@ameritech.net> I've read that too, and reviewers note it as a drawback. I don't want an "eco" dishwasher. I always leave ours on the sanitizer cycle and high-temp scrub. We'll go looking at dishwashers this weekend. But unless the Miele is some sort of dishwasher from God, maybe I have to keep fixing this POS for now. I guess an hour's repair and $200 of parts to buy another 5 years might be OK after all. But it sure isn't like the old ones were. That statement in "The Graduate" was prophetic: "One word -- PLASTICS". If he'd have thrown in "cheapen everything and make it overseas" he'd have described US manufacturing in the last quarter of the 20th century and beyond. > A couple of nits about it- there's no heated dry option. It's > supposedly an energy saver, but it means I usually need to dry off at > least a few of the dishes. It's also got no food grinder, which is part of why it's so quiet. The latter point is why we stuck with Kitchenaid for our latest go-round in 2003. John. From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Jan 26 11:20:49 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:20:49 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <001801cbbd85$c3463790$49d2a6b0$@ameritech.net> Thanks but... I checked the pump output, and have confirmed that the upper spray bars aren't moving. I just haven't taken the pump out and apart yet because the seal is a pisser - it took 3 tries to get it in properly and sealed last time. Even plain water would do better than it's been lately. And we've been phosphate-free here in the NE quadrant of the Peoples Republic of Illinois for decades. You have to go out of at least the Chicago area to buy "real" detergents. We used to do that but don't bother any more, so we've been using castrated detergents for years. -----Original Message----- From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? One thing to think about with a dishwasher that's not working as well as it used to is the detergent. In the first half of last year, the use of phosphates in dishwasher detergents was phased out. Phosphates in dishwashers soften the water, which make the rising work better, and generally increase the performance of the detergent. If your dishwasher has recently stopped working well, it's entirely possible your detergent just sucks. Try something else. From jem at milleredp.com Wed Jan 26 11:30:32 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:30:32 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <4D406848.10804@milleredp.com> > One thing to think about with a dishwasher that's not working as well > as it used to is the detergent. In the first half of last year, the > use of phosphates in dishwasher detergents was phased out. http://moelane.com/2011/01/24/your-dishes-are-dirty-because-of-the-greens/ As noted elsewhere: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09333/1017093-113.stm commercial detergents aren't subject to the ban, and there's a fair size list of supplements to be found (see the Moe Lane link for one, then look at the rest of what Amazon suggests) that'll help if necessary. John. From jnew at hazelden.ca Wed Jan 26 11:55:31 2011 From: jnew at hazelden.ca (John P. New) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:55:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <00a401cbbd81$63705c50$2a5114f0$@ameritech.net> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> <00a401cbbd81$63705c50$2a5114f0$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <201101261355.31536.jnew@hazelden.ca> I wasn't going to chime in about the Miele until it was brought up, so... We bought a Miele (Inspira Series) a few years ago and there have been no problems with it since. For almost all of the cycle, it is very quiet; there is some pump noise at the beginning of the cycle, but I wouldn't call it loud. It's all stainless-steel construction. It cleans very well with very little water and detergent usage. There is no food-grinder, just a couple of strainers to empty (every time I go to empty them, there is hardly anything to remove), so you have to make sure the big chunks are removed before the plates go in. It dries china/glass very well, with just a few drops on the edges of glasses; it doesn't dry plastic items well at all. The cutlery rack took some getting used to (we previously had a basket-type), but it certainly cleans better than when the cutlery was stuffed into a basket. I installed it myself and it was very straight-forward (caution: DO NOT cut the drain pipe to size; it contains wires that are needed for the dishwasher to function; just coil up the excess beside the unit). I have a love-hate relationship with the racks, especially for the glasses; they could have been better designed, and I have even made a couple of modifications myself to make better use of the space. But I think opinions on rack design are very subjective. Only a few annoyances. The unit does not really turn off after the cycle is completed; the power light stays on until you switch it off. There is no way to tell where it is in the cycle, so you can't judge when it will be finished. Sometimes it is too quiet, and because there is no progress indicator, I have actually opened the unit in the middle of the cycle, not realizing it was still washing! Be prepared for sticker shock, these are expensive units. Was it worth it? Judging by the repair stories of others, possibly. John New London, Ontario, Canada On Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:49:31 pm Karl Vacek wrote: > I've read that too, and reviewers note it as a drawback. I don't want an > "eco" dishwasher. I always leave ours on the sanitizer cycle and high-temp > scrub. > > We'll go looking at dishwashers this weekend. But unless the Miele is some > sort of dishwasher from God, maybe I have to keep fixing this POS for now. > I guess an hour's repair and $200 of parts to buy another 5 years might be > OK after all. But it sure isn't like the old ones were. > > That statement in "The Graduate" was prophetic: "One word -- PLASTICS". > If he'd have thrown in "cheapen everything and make it overseas" he'd have > described US manufacturing in the last quarter of the 20th century and > beyond. > > > > > A couple of nits about it- there's no heated dry option. It's > > supposedly an energy saver, but it means I usually need to dry off at > > least a few of the dishes. It's also got no food grinder, which is part of > why it's so quiet. > > The latter point is why we stuck with Kitchenaid for our latest go-round in > 2003. > > John. From parkanzky at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 09:27:58 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:27:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <1B850A3F-9A9F-4F45-BECD-FDEA1F1ABA43@gmail.com> Ours does have a heated dry cycle. It is probably model dependent. We chose one of the nicer models in the lower range. That meant large buttons on the front instead of electronics on top of the door. It just seemed somehow more fool-proof to me. -Paul On Jan 26, 2011, at 7:20 AM, Larry Spector wrote: > One more satisfied Bosch customer here. > > We bought ours about a year ago too, it's very quiet and does a decent job > of cleaning dishes. > > A couple of nits about it- there's no heated dry option. It's supposedly an > energy saver, but it means I usually need to dry off at least a few of the > dishes. It's also got no food grinder, which is part of why it's so quiet. > There are a couple of strainers that need to be cleaned out once in a while. > No big deal if you rinse before you put stuff in, but something to be aware > of. > > -Larry > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Richard Frisicano wrote: > >> Karl, >> I can second that. We've only had our Bosch for about a year, but we love >> it. Very, very quiet. You don't even know it's running. >> Rick >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:54 PM, Paul Parkanzky >> wrote: >> >>> Karl, >>> >>> We bought a Bosch when we purchased this (new construction) home in >>> 2007 and we really love it. It does a fantastic job of cleaning our >>> dishes and nothing has broken yet. >>> >>> It's just one data point, but we're really pleased with it and we'd buy >>> another. >>> >>> -Paul >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Karl Vacek >> wrote: >>>> Who makes the best dishwasher today ? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/parkanzky at gmail.com From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Wed Jan 26 17:49:06 2011 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:49:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <4D405258.805@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <20110127004906.GA55513@sackheads.org> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 12:42:03PM -0500, David Scheidt wrote: > (This isn't directly related to particular dishwashers or picking one, > just seems like a suitable time to bring it up.) > > One thing to think about with a dishwasher that's not working as well > as it used to is the detergent. In the first half of last year, the > use of phosphates in dishwasher detergents was phased out. Phosphates > in dishwashers soften the water, which make the rising work better, > and generally increase the performance of the detergent. If your > dishwasher has recently stopped working well, it's entirely possible > your detergent just sucks. Try something else. > I've wondered about this. I imagine manufacturers are still tweaking their forumlae since phosphates were eliminated only recently. Any recommendations for detergents that work reasonably well these days? Jimmie From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Wed Jan 26 21:30:35 2011 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:30:35 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] dishwashers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EC5052CEDBD47D8BC42383D78105952@delld520> While we're talking about dishwashers (note: we have a pair of Bosch units that work really well, but not with Costco detergent) I highly recommend putting two of them in. If you figure in the lack of the base cabinet they replace and that while you are plumbing and stringing wires one more isn't too much more work having two is totally worth it. We are a family of 5 and unless it is completely empty we don't always fit a cleanup into one dishwasher. We put two into a remodel of our last house and when I built this one it was a requirement. And don't get me started on potfillers; I'd pass a zoning law that required them. Mark Miller Sebastopol, Ca From whesr at iglou.com Thu Jan 27 07:53:18 2011 From: whesr at iglou.com (Bill Engle Sr) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:53:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] dishwashers In-Reply-To: <2EC5052CEDBD47D8BC42383D78105952@delld520> References: <2EC5052CEDBD47D8BC42383D78105952@delld520> Message-ID: <6FE82AFE03404DCCA0F1A3A4DE17F785@MDBC.local> What is a potfiller? Bill Engle, Sr. All mail scanned by Symantec Antivirus -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Miller Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:31 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dishwashers While we're talking about dishwashers (note: we have a pair of Bosch units that work really well, but not with Costco detergent) I highly recommend putting two of them in. If you figure in the lack of the base cabinet they replace and that while you are plumbing and stringing wires one more isn't too much more work having two is totally worth it. We are a family of 5 and unless it is completely empty we don't always fit a cleanup into one dishwasher. We put two into a remodel of our last house and when I built this one it was a requirement. And don't get me started on potfillers; I'd pass a zoning law that required them. Mark Miller Sebastopol, Ca _______________________________________________ From bspidell at comcast.net Thu Jan 27 08:13:06 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 07:13:06 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> While on the topic of washers and soap ... I have a late-model, low-end Maytag that, so far, has performed adequately. My choice was limited by the small size of my kitchen enclosure--it was the only one I could find locally that would fit. Anyway, for the last year or so--coincident with the detergent reformulation?--I've noticed a problem. My son drinks a LOT of milk, specifically 1% lowfat, and my glasses have acquired a semi-permanent milky residue. It's almost as if the milk is etching the glass. It can be mostly scrubbed off with a Scotchbrite pad/sponge, but this is a PITA (and try to get a 20-year-old semi-man to do this). Anybody else seeing this phenomenum? bs On 1/25/2011 11:28 PM, John Miller wrote: > On 1/25/2011 10:20 PM, Bob Nogueira wrote: >> Our three year old Kitchenaide has had the main control board replaced twice. >> The tech told me it was really a design flaw in that the vent is just above >> the board and the moisture gets to the board. >> I've had too take out an extended warrantee on it since it doesn't seem to be >> able to go more than a year without a service call. > > While we haven't had any difficulties with our 2003 Kitchenaid I agree that the electronic controls do seem to be a > sore point on many recent appliances. We just purchased a new LG washer and dryer and for I think the first time on > any appliance purchase I did buy an extended service agreement. > > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From tputland at charter.net Thu Jan 27 08:40:17 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 7:40:17 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20110127104017.B6X9N.11859023.root@mp11> I have seen this happen to glass ware and plastic ware but thought it was actually the glass and plastic getting scratched (etched) by hard water, crappy detergent or scotch brite scrubbies actually damaging the glass or plastic. We don't have a dishwasher (yet) and I seen this happen with some of out stuff that was done by hand washing using scrubbies. Tim Dairyland Datsuns ---- Bob Spidell wrote: ============= While on the topic of washers and soap ... I have a late-model, low-end Maytag that, so far, has performed adequately. My choice was limited by the small size of my kitchen enclosure--it was the only one I could find locally that would fit. Anyway, for the last year or so--coincident with the detergent reformulation?--I've noticed a problem. My son drinks a LOT of milk, specifically 1% lowfat, and my glasses have acquired a semi-permanent milky residue. It's almost as if the milk is etching the glass. It can be mostly scrubbed off with a Scotchbrite pad/sponge, but this is a PITA (and try to get a 20-year-old semi-man to do this). Anybody else seeing this phenomenum? bs On 1/25/2011 11:28 PM, John Miller wrote: > On 1/25/2011 10:20 PM, Bob Nogueira wrote: >> Our three year old Kitchenaide has had the main control board replaced twice. >> The tech told me it was really a design flaw in that the vent is just above >> the board and the moisture gets to the board. >> I've had too take out an extended warrantee on it since it doesn't seem to be >> able to go more than a year without a service call. > > While we haven't had any difficulties with our 2003 Kitchenaid I agree that the electronic controls do seem to be a > sore point on many recent appliances. We just purchased a new LG washer and dryer and for I think the first time on > any appliance purchase I did buy an extended service agreement. > > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From tputland at charter.net Thu Jan 27 08:41:05 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 7:41:05 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] potfillier was: dishwashers In-Reply-To: <6FE82AFE03404DCCA0F1A3A4DE17F785@MDBC.local> Message-ID: <20110127104105.SHLSM.11859024.root@mp11> Is he referring to a faucet over the stove used to fill pots with water for cooking? ---- Bill Engle Sr wrote: ============= What is a potfiller? Bill Engle, Sr. All mail scanned by Symantec Antivirus -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Miller Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:31 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dishwashers While we're talking about dishwashers (note: we have a pair of Bosch units that work really well, but not with Costco detergent) I highly recommend putting two of them in. If you figure in the lack of the base cabinet they replace and that while you are plumbing and stringing wires one more isn't too much more work having two is totally worth it. We are a family of 5 and unless it is completely empty we don't always fit a cleanup into one dishwasher. We put two into a remodel of our last house and when I built this one it was a requirement. And don't get me started on potfillers; I'd pass a zoning law that required them. Mark Miller Sebastopol, Ca _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From bspidell at comcast.net Thu Jan 27 08:56:37 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:56:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <20110127104017.B6X9N.11859023.root@mp11> Message-ID: <1173489544.1856611.1296143797253.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I've got a water softener, use Cascade (rated high/highest by Consumer Reports) and don't scrub except to try to remove this residue. Previous to the Maytag, for almost 15 yrs I had an old GE washer--it came with the house--and didn't have this problem. Also, I used to be able to throw my coffee cups in without rinsing and they'd get clean; now, I have to rinse/scrub them else they build up a coffee residue. Maybe the d/w just don't cut it. bs -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA I have seen this happen to glass ware and plastic ware but thought it was actually the glass and plastic getting scratched (etched) by hard water, crappy detergent or scotch brite scrubbies actually damaging the glass or plastic. We don't have a dishwasher (yet) and I seen this happen with some of out stuff that was done by hand washing using scrubbies. Tim Dairyland Datsuns ---- Bob Spidell wrote: ============= While on the topic of washers and soap ... I have a late-model, low-end Maytag that, so far, has performed adequately. My choice was limited by the small size of my kitchen enclosure--it was the only one I could find locally that would fit. Anyway, for the last year or so--coincident with the detergent reformulation?--I've noticed a problem. My son drinks a LOT of milk, specifically 1% lowfat, and my glasses have acquired a semi-permanent milky residue. It's almost as if the milk is etching the glass. It can be mostly scrubbed off with a Scotchbrite pad/sponge, but this is a PITA (and try to get a 20-year-old semi-man to do this). Anybody else seeing this phenomenum? bs From jem at milleredp.com Thu Jan 27 09:05:06 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:05:06 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] dishwashers In-Reply-To: <6FE82AFE03404DCCA0F1A3A4DE17F785@MDBC.local> References: <2EC5052CEDBD47D8BC42383D78105952@delld520> <6FE82AFE03404DCCA0F1A3A4DE17F785@MDBC.local> Message-ID: <4D4197B2.1070407@milleredp.com> On 1/27/2011 6:53 AM, Bill Engle Sr wrote: > What is a potfiller? A long gooseneck sort of faucet usually cold-water only that's typically mounted near a cooktop, for filling pasta pots and the like. When we did our kitchen my wife insisted that we needed a wok burner, I put in a potfiller over there as well, we've virtually never used either the wok burner or the potfiller... John. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 09:10:54 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (scott.hall.personal at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:10:54 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] potfillier was: dishwashers In-Reply-To: <20110127104105.SHLSM.11859024.root@mp11> References: <6FE82AFE03404DCCA0F1A3A4DE17F785@MDBC.local><20110127104105.SHLSM.11859024.root@mp11> Message-ID: Yes. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Tim Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 7:41:05 To: Bill Engle Sr; ; Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] potfillier was: dishwashers Is he referring to a faucet over the stove used to fill pots with water for cooking? ---- Bill Engle Sr wrote: ============= What is a potfiller? Bill Engle, Sr. All mail scanned by Symantec Antivirus -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Miller Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:31 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] dishwashers While we're talking about dishwashers (note: we have a pair of Bosch units that work really well, but not with Costco detergent) I highly recommend putting two of them in. If you figure in the lack of the base cabinet they replace and that while you are plumbing and stringing wires one more isn't too much more work having two is totally worth it. We are a family of 5 and unless it is completely empty we don't always fit a cleanup into one dishwasher. We put two into a remodel of our last house and when I built this one it was a requirement. And don't get me started on potfillers; I'd pass a zoning law that required them. Mark Miller Sebastopol, Ca _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com From wmc_st at xxiii.com Thu Jan 27 10:10:46 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:10:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> On 1/27/2011 10:13 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > Anyway, for the last year or so--coincident with the detergent > reformulation?--I've noticed a problem. My son drinks a LOT of milk, > specifically 1% lowfat, and my glasses have acquired a semi-permanent > milky residue. It's almost as if the milk is etching the glass. It can > be mostly scrubbed off with a Scotchbrite pad/sponge, but this is a PITA > (and try to get a 20-year-old semi-man to do this). Sounds like minerals in the water, not milk. You could try telling him milk is a colloidal suspension of cow fat in cow sweat and see if that dissuades him. Or that it's just kinda gross to consume another mammal's lactation. Personally, I'm torn between that and the fact cheese is good. -W From mikey at b2systems.com Thu Jan 27 10:39:49 2011 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:39:49 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> So Wayne what is your view on this ? http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01/18/deliciously-creamy-the-world-of-breast-milk-cheese/ Cheese made from human breast milk... I WILL PASS, NO THANK YOU ! Ok, now that you have thrown up, lets get back to dishwasher basics, I have to plan on installing one when the kitchen is re-done in a few months, it will my wife and I's first dishwasher, never had one before so I have been reading these posts quite closely (until the milk part at least). mike On 01/27/2011 09:10 AM, Wayne wrote: > On 1/27/2011 10:13 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: >> Anyway, for the last year or so--coincident with the detergent >> reformulation?--I've noticed a problem. My son drinks a LOT of milk, >> specifically 1% lowfat, and my glasses have acquired a semi-permanent >> milky residue. It's almost as if the milk is etching the glass. It can >> be mostly scrubbed off with a Scotchbrite pad/sponge, but this is a PITA >> (and try to get a 20-year-old semi-man to do this). > > Sounds like minerals in the water, not milk. > > You could try telling him milk is a colloidal suspension of cow fat in > cow sweat and see if that dissuades him. Or that it's just kinda > gross to consume another mammal's lactation. Personally, I'm torn > between that and the fact cheese is good. > > -W From parkanzky at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 10:47:21 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:47:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003701cbbe4a$40ba2730$c22e7590$@com> It's probably hard water residue left behind because you evaporate off the water in the dishwasher instead of wiping it away with a drying cloth when they're hand washed. We have a well and no water softener, so the white build-up is a direct consequence of those choices. It comes off pretty easily if you wipe the dishes down with vinegar. We'll do that every six months or so when a number of the dishes we keep in high rotation start to look bad. We'll also toss a cup of vinegar in the dishwasher from time to time. -Paul -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Spidell Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:13 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? While on the topic of washers and soap ... I have a late-model, low-end Maytag that, so far, has performed adequately. My choice was limited by the small size of my kitchen enclosure--it was the only one I could find locally that would fit. Anyway, for the last year or so--coincident with the detergent reformulation?--I've noticed a problem. My son drinks a LOT of milk, specifically 1% lowfat, and my glasses have acquired a semi-permanent milky residue. It's almost as if the milk is etching the glass. It can be mostly scrubbed off with a Scotchbrite pad/sponge, but this is a PITA (and try to get a 20-year-old semi-man to do this). Anybody else seeing this phenomenum? bs On 1/25/2011 11:28 PM, John Miller wrote: > On 1/25/2011 10:20 PM, Bob Nogueira wrote: >> Our three year old Kitchenaide has had the main control board replaced twice. >> The tech told me it was really a design flaw in that the vent is just above >> the board and the moisture gets to the board. >> I've had too take out an extended warrantee on it since it doesn't seem to be >> able to go more than a year without a service call. > > While we haven't had any difficulties with our 2003 Kitchenaid I agree that the electronic controls do seem to be a > sore point on many recent appliances. We just purchased a new LG washer and dryer and for I think the first time on > any appliance purchase I did buy an extended service agreement. From kvacek at ameritech.net Thu Jan 27 10:55:26 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 11:55:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] potfillier was: dishwashers In-Reply-To: <20110127163543.B57AD1879DE@autox.team.net> References: <6FE82AFE03404DCCA0F1A3A4DE17F785@MDBC.local><20110127104105.SHLSM.11859024.root@mp11> <20110127163543.B57AD1879DE@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <003e01cbbe4b$611f0a80$235d1f80$@ameritech.net> Is a potfiller is somehow exempt from the "save the planet" ideas that ruined faucets and shower heads some years ago? How does it differ in result from a faucet with a pull-out? We have a triple-bowl sink, and because it's impossible to properly serve all sinks with one faucet I wound up installing two swing-faucets, each having a pull-out. We occasionally fill buckets, etc. by using both pull-outs to speed the process. But for cooking we usually use RO water, which has its own spout. Karl From kvacek at ameritech.net Thu Jan 27 11:10:15 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:10:15 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <004401cbbe4d$73d43f40$5b7cbdc0$@ameritech.net> I hereby nominate this for best reply of the year in the free-style category. If was drinking milk when I read it, the last sentence would have made mammal lactation squirt out of my nose!! Karl -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) You could try telling him milk is a colloidal suspension of cow fat in cow sweat and see if that dissuades him. Or that it's just kinda gross to consume another mammal's lactation. Personally, I'm torn between that and the fact cheese is good. From kvacek at ameritech.net Thu Jan 27 11:19:52 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:19:52 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> Message-ID: <004e01cbbe4e$cabc84b0$60358e10$@ameritech.net> Best brands/models aside, consider that most dishwashers nowadays are deep (vertically), and the bottom of the tub and lower rack are close to the floor. Unless you're short, it's a long bend to get down there. If we could've spared the counter space, I would have raised the dishwasher at least 6 inches, and a foot would've been better. If you have a spot with no cabinets above and want convenience, that'd be really nice. The space above could always hold a microwave or a single wall oven or whatever. None of that worked out for us, so we live with a low dishwasher like most everybody else. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Rambour Ok, now that you have thrown up, lets get back to dishwasher basics, I have to plan on installing one when the kitchen is re-done in a few months, it will my wife and I's first dishwasher, never had one before so I have been reading these posts quite closely (until the milk part at least). From shiples at comcast.net Thu Jan 27 11:26:57 2011 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:26:57 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> References: <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20110127102048.041ba240@mail.comcast.net> At 09:39 AM 1/27/2011 -0800, Mike Rambour wrote: > So Wayne what is your view on this ? > >http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01/18/deliciously-creamy-the-world-of-breast-milk-cheese/ > > Cheese made from human breast milk... I WILL PASS, NO THANK YOU ! "The subject of breast feeding always strikes an emotional reaction,said Dr. Jack Newman, chairman of the Canadian Breastfeeding Foundation. And in our society, breasts are thought of for sex not for nurturing, or making milk." > Ok, now that you have thrown up, lets get back to dishwasher basics, I > have to plan on installing one when the kitchen is re-done in a few > months, it will my wife and I's first dishwasher, never had one before so > I have been reading these posts quite closely (until the milk part at least). I think Consumer Reports or some other authoritative source recommends a $700 Kenmore. We bought one for Mom within the past two years and have no complaints. My sister says she's going to buy one just like it. From darrellw at ipns.com Thu Jan 27 11:38:51 2011 From: darrellw at ipns.com (Darrell Walker) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:38:51 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <004e01cbbe4e$cabc84b0$60358e10$@ameritech.net> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> <004e01cbbe4e$cabc84b0$60358e10$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <0C343300-B0F8-4A70-8085-700DDB0217F8@ipns.com> On Jan 27, 2011, at 10:19 AM, Karl Vacek wrote: > Best brands/models aside, consider that most dishwashers nowadays are deep > (vertically), and the bottom of the tub and lower rack are close to the > floor. Which in turn makes the door longer. In our kitchen layout, the original door stopped just short of blocking the range. The new one overlaps, but luckily there is clearance. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Thu Jan 27 12:31:48 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:31:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> Message-ID: <4D41C824.1060100@xxiii.com> On 1/27/2011 12:39 PM, Mike Rambour wrote: > So Wayne what is your view on this ? > http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01/18/deliciously-creamy-the-world-of-breast-milk-cheese/ > Cheese made from human breast milk... I WILL PASS, NO THANK YOU ! Yeah, I've seen the PETA crazies stuff. Logically, it should not be more gross than cow secretions, but it is. -w From hillman at planet-torque.com Thu Jan 27 12:52:32 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:52:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D41C824.1060100@xxiii.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> <4D41C824.1060100@xxiii.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Wayne wrote: > Yeah, I've seen the PETA crazies stuff. Logically, it should not be more > gross than cow secretions, but it is. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about eggs? Or, for that matter, eating the flesh of a mammal? Our distinctions between edible and not are fairly arbitrary. It's okay to eat mammals, but not smart ones ( no dog, cat, horse, monkey, etc ). Most air and land creatures who scavenge for food are generally off-limits ( rats, pidgeons, etc ) but aquatic scavengers tend to be a delicacy ( crab, lobster ). Seems like you can gross yourself out thinking about the origin of most foods ( ewww, potatos grow in the first with bugs and worms! Honey is regurgitated bee puke!! ), but I find most of them tasty anyway. -- David Hillman From kennedybc at comcast.net Thu Jan 27 15:01:23 2011 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian Kennedy) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:01:23 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <44A458EB-9BAA-4C14-8D17-0BE4E8BEC30C@comcast.net> We had the problem of etched glasses with soft water. Somewhere I read use less detergent, so we only fill the soap dispensers half way and the problem went away. Brian K On Jan 27, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Wayne wrote: > On 1/27/2011 10:13 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: >> Anyway, for the last year or so--coincident with the detergent >> reformulation?--I've noticed a problem. My son drinks a LOT of milk, >> specifically 1% lowfat, and my glasses have acquired a semi-permanent >> milky residue. It's almost as if the milk is etching the glass. It can >> be mostly scrubbed off with a Scotchbrite pad/sponge, but this is a PITA >> (and try to get a 20-year-old semi-man to do this). > > Sounds like minerals in the water, not milk. > > You could try telling him milk is a colloidal suspension of cow fat in cow sweat and see if that dissuades him. Or that it's just kinda gross to consume another mammal's lactation. Personally, I'm torn between that and the fact cheese is good. > > -W > _______________________________________________ From jdrush at enter.net Thu Jan 27 15:28:23 2011 From: jdrush at enter.net (Rush) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:28:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D41F187.7090909@enter.net> According to the dishwasher manufacturers, etching of glasses is the result of using too much dishwasher soap. Our Kitchenaid owners manual states that if we have a water softener, we only need to use a half measure of soap. It's been working so far. The other option is the Finish Powerball tabs which are supposed to adjust to the softness of your water so your glasses do not etch. They jury is still out on these. Jon On 1/27/2011 10:13 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > While on the topic of washers and soap ... > > I have a late-model, low-end Maytag that, so far, has performed > adequately. My choice was limited by the small size of my kitchen > enclosure--it was the only one I could find locally that would fit. > > Anyway, for the last year or so--coincident with the detergent > reformulation?--I've noticed a problem. My son drinks a LOT of milk, > specifically 1% lowfat, and my glasses have acquired a semi-permanent > milky residue. It's almost as if the milk is etching the glass. It can > be mostly scrubbed off with a Scotchbrite pad/sponge, but this is a PITA > (and try to get a 20-year-old semi-man to do this). > > Anybody else seeing this phenomenum? > > bs From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jan 27 16:26:08 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:26:08 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D41C824.1060100@xxiii.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> <4D41C824.1060100@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <037001cbbe79$94293580$bc7ba080$@rr.com> > Yeah, I've seen the PETA crazies stuff. Logically, it should not be > more gross than cow secretions, but it is. We're wandering way off topic here, but I wonder how many people that have actually milked a cow feel that way? How about those who were breast-fed as infants? The biggest difference may be that breast milk didn't come from something that gets drug through the cow shit^^^^manure every day. -- Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jan 27 16:33:24 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:33:24 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] potfillier was: dishwashers In-Reply-To: <003e01cbbe4b$611f0a80$235d1f80$@ameritech.net> References: <6FE82AFE03404DCCA0F1A3A4DE17F785@MDBC.local><20110127104105.SHLSM.11859024.root@mp11> <20110127163543.B57AD1879DE@autox.team.net> <003e01cbbe4b$611f0a80$235d1f80$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <037101cbbe7a$97a08c80$c6e1a580$@rr.com> > Is a potfiller is somehow exempt from the "save the planet" ideas that > ruined faucets and shower heads some years ago? How does it differ in > result from a faucet with a pull-out? 1) With no sink/drain under it, you're not likely to run more water than will fill the pot. 2) Unless you've got a heck of a pull-out, it won't reach to the stove. The point of the potfiller is to not have to haul the heavy pot of water from the sink to the stove. Possibly not an issue for most of you, but it is for some people. -- Randall From tputland at charter.net Thu Jan 27 16:35:42 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:35:42 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] (and milk) In-Reply-To: <037001cbbe79$94293580$bc7ba080$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20110127183542.B9ST2.11860085.root@mp11> OK, here I go...... Breat milk is the bomb (best)! I was in heaven when my daughter was a baby. Sorry, I know, TMI, but hey, I did't start this thread, but I bet I have just finished it!!!! Tim ---- Randall wrote: ============= > Yeah, I've seen the PETA crazies stuff. Logically, it should not be > more gross than cow secretions, but it is. We're wandering way off topic here, but I wonder how many people that have actually milked a cow feel that way? How about those who were breast-fed as infants? The biggest difference may be that breast milk didn't come from something that gets drug through the cow shit^^^^manure every day. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From mark at nashvilletn.org Thu Jan 27 16:51:22 2011 From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:51:22 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] (and milk) References: <20110127183542.B9ST2.11860085.root@mp11> Message-ID: And it comes in such nice containers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] (and milk) OK, here I go...... Breat milk is the bomb (best)! I was in heaven when my daughter was a baby. Sorry, I know, TMI, but hey, I did't start this thread, but I bet I have just finished it!!!! Tim From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jan 27 16:55:32 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:55:32 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? In-Reply-To: <1173489544.1856611.1296143797253.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <20110127104017.B6X9N.11859023.root@mp11> <1173489544.1856611.1296143797253.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <037d01cbbe7d$afae0d40$0f0a27c0$@rr.com> > Maybe the d/w just don't cut it. A friend gave me a Maytag once, when my KitchenAid was on the fritz. After seeing how well it cleaned dishes, I gave it back and fixed the KitchenAid! -- Randall From wmc_st at xxiii.com Thu Jan 27 17:09:53 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:09:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> <4D41C824.1060100@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4D420951.4020407@xxiii.com> On 1/27/2011 2:52 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Wayne wrote: >> Yeah, I've seen the PETA crazies stuff. Logically, it should not be >> more gross than cow secretions, but it is. > > Out of curiosity, how do you feel about eggs? Or, for that matter, > eating the flesh of a mammal? HeHe... eggs disgust me in many ways. Don't think I've tried eating one straight up in about 43 years (I'm 44.5 now) I grudginly accept they're an ingredient in many foods and do eat those. Won't do shrimp (disgusting bottom feeding sea insects) or any seafood other than the occasional not-too-smelly fish. Dead cows, dead pigs, etc -- YUM YUM. Just no offal. Tried game; didn't care for it. Count me as a member of "People Eating Tasty Animals" > Our distinctions between edible and not are fairly arbitrary. It's okay > to eat mammals, but not smart ones ( no dog, cat, horse, monkey, etc ). Wow, that's a good succinct way to put it, David. Had a Korean dorm mate in college; Wan Ha said "Oh dog is GOOD". I would like to introduce him to my current neighbor's dogs. I understand there are some whack-job myopic Americans trying to get consumption of those "other" animals banned it other countries. OMG -- I just remembered a gross one. The wife had a co-worker (teacher) that grew up in very rural South Carolina. She talked about eating "eggs and grubs". Apparently Daddy would dig up grubs in the yard for bait and go fishin' in the morning; any leftover grubs were thrown in the skillet with eggs for the family's breakfast. (bwarf!!) > Seems like you can gross yourself out thinking about the origin of most > foods ( ewww, potatos grow in the first with bugs and worms! Honey is > regurgitated bee puke!! ), but I find most of them tasty anyway. I'm gonna go thoroughly boil a pack of ramen for dinner, then go play in my garage. <--- obligatory Shop Talk content. -Wayne From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jan 27 19:13:17 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:13:17 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Best dishwasher? (and milk) In-Reply-To: <4D420951.4020407@xxiii.com> References: <002901cbbd03$a76b4dd0$f641e970$@ameritech.net> <13102C40-1F21-4CBE-87C5-5943AF551EE9@texmog.com> <4D3FCD2E.2080200@milleredp.com> <4D418B82.7090408@comcast.net> <4D41A716.3020600@xxiii.com> <4D41ADE5.4050208@b2systems.com> <4D41C824.1060100@xxiii.com> <4D420951.4020407@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <03de01cbbe90$ed8e86e0$c8ab94a0$@rr.com> > I'm gonna go thoroughly boil a pack of ramen for dinner, So we probably shouldn't talk about all the disgusting things that are allowed to be in your ramen noodles? -- Randall From tputland at charter.net Thu Jan 27 19:20:48 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:20:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] was dishwasher....now is RAMEN In-Reply-To: <03de01cbbe90$ed8e86e0$c8ab94a0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <20110127212048.0FRFJ.11860364.root@mp11> HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ---- Randall wrote: ============= > I'm gonna go thoroughly boil a pack of ramen for dinner, So we probably shouldn't talk about all the disgusting things that are allowed to be in your ramen noodles? -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri Jan 28 16:28:18 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:28:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management Message-ID: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time of cay that they can be call and be called. Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op Peter Thomas From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri Jan 28 17:18:33 2011 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:18:33 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: Have you thought of a second line? I would think it would cost less than you stress meds. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:28:18 -0500 > From: pj_thomas at comcast.net > To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management > > My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home > endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she > ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the > call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about > an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for > work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do > not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. > > I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. > Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter > certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time > of cay that they can be call and be called. > > Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op > > Peter Thomas > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Fri Jan 28 17:18:32 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:18:32 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: I'm not trying to be a smart a**, but maybe you should just surrender to the inevitable and get a second line or a cell phone for her if it is financially possible. Might be easier in the long run than trying to keep a girl off the phone... best, Doug Shook (Blackberry) 323.286.6115 -----Original Message----- From: "Peter J. Thomas" Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:28:18 To: Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time of cay that they can be call and be called. Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op Peter Thomas _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From brabel at comcast.net Fri Jan 28 17:53:27 2011 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 16:53:27 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: <95D1AEF0-843A-4636-A9E3-056762EECEE3@comcast.net> The second phone line is a good one. The business line would be deductible, whereas a baseball bat would not, and could lead to incarceration... On Jan 28, 2011, at 3:28 PM, "Peter J. Thomas" wrote: > My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. > > I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time of cay that they can be call and be called. > > Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op > > Peter Thomas > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/brabel at comcast.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jan 28 18:10:26 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:10:26 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <20110129003832.479381878E4@autox.team.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> <20110129003832.479381878E4@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <058a01cbbf51$50706330$f1512990$@rr.com> Since you are on Comcast, you must have broadband Internet access. Lots of VoIP (internet phone) plans available, many for under $10/month with unlimited local calls (some w/unlimited domestic long distance as well). That's what I did (although I went with Vonage who are more expensive but also offer cheap international long distance). Worked out great, her phone was only connected to the Vonage box, and her friends very quickly learned the new number. I also went one step farther, and dropped the POTS entirely in favor of my cell phone. I have seen business-grade phone systems that will do what you want, but for just one line the VoIP will be a lot cheaper and easier. -- Randall From jibjib at att.net Fri Jan 28 18:32:01 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:32:01 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4DC2826105EB4AA3971FF64D906392F6@EntCent> Second line. You are fighting a battle that will be difficult to win. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Peter J. Thomas Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 3:28 PM To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time of cay that they can be call and be called. Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op Peter Thomas _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From mark at nashvilletn.org Fri Jan 28 19:12:26 2011 From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:12:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: Give up Peter, as a father of two girls I can tell you can't win this battle. I put in a second line with an on/off switch so I could disable the line when I thought it was necessary. My granddaughter has her own cell phone these days, she sends me text messages.... My Brother has a Magic-Jack (19.95 a year) and likes it, but you do need to keep a PC on all the time. Mark Nashville ----- Original Message ----- Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri Jan 28 20:01:00 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:01:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D4382EC.8000602@xxiii.com> On 1/28/2011 6:28 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home > endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she > ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the As one of those half-full always-positive kinda guys [dripping sarcasm] look at the bright side -- she can not get pregnant from using the phone! Seriously -- could be a lot worse if she was out running around doing who knows what. Buy a second phone line. -Wayne From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri Jan 28 20:23:22 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:23:22 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D43882A.4010100@comcast.net> On 1/28/2011 6:28 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home > endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she > ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the > call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for > about an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the > phone for work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once > and not do not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. > > I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. > Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter > certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time > of cay that they can be call and be called. > > Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op > > Peter Thomas Thanks for all the advice. The second line may not be an option. I had a second line for dialup but disconnect when I got the cable modem. The first line went bad so the phone company switched to main line to the second. The service tech told me it was a good thing I had had it because he may not have been able to use any other lines; old lines and pretty much used up. Cell phone is not an option, only signal we get is standing in the rafter at one end of the house. Of the advice the internet phone might be an option, if cheap enough. But this does address the root problem. I need to trim her habit. Giving in and giving her very own line sends the opposite message. Equally I need to trim the habit of her friends which is most of the problem. If anyone knows of parental phone line technology I'm all ears. Peter Thomas > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From bob at texmog.com Fri Jan 28 21:28:31 2011 From: bob at texmog.com (bob at texmog.com) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:28:31 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Skirt for a Play Cottage Message-ID: In the back yard we have a play house (8'X10') that I built 20 years ago for my daughter. Now my granddaughter wants to play in it so I am about to do a remodel. The biggest problem is that it sits about 6 inches above the ground on nine 12" X 12" concrete pads. The last couple of years some critters have taken up residence during the spring under the house. I'd like to do a skirt around the house to keep the critters out this coming spring. My first thought was to use wire fencing material around the base but my wife nixed that idea as ugly. My next idea was to use pressure treated wood around the base but that would still allow a critter to dig under the house. So what I'm thing of doing is to use cement board, used as a base for laying tile, since I could dig a trench and have it several inches into the ground to discourage digging. I would then coat the cement board with a thin coat of concrete to give it the look of a foundation ( and win the praise of my wife). Any reason why the cement board would not work in this type application? What is the cement product called that is used to finish foundations and give them a smooth look? Thanks in advance for any suggestions Bob Nogueira From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri Jan 28 22:13:07 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:13:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Skirt for a Play Cottage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D43A1E3.10005@comcast.net> On 1/28/2011 11:28 PM, bob at texmog.com wrote: > In the back yard we have a play house (8'X10') that I built 20 years ago > for my daughter. Now my granddaughter wants to play in it so I am about to > do a remodel. > > The biggest problem is that it sits about 6 inches above the ground on nine > 12" X 12" concrete pads. The last couple of years some critters have taken > up residence during the spring under the house. I'd like to do a skirt > around the house to keep the critters out this coming spring. > > My first thought was to use wire fencing material around the base but my > wife nixed that idea as ugly. > > My next idea was to use pressure treated wood around the base but that would > still allow a critter to dig under the house. > > So what I'm thing of doing is to use cement board, used as a base for > laying tile, since I could dig a trench and have it several inches into the > ground to discourage digging. I would then coat the cement board with a thin > coat of concrete to give it the look of a foundation ( and win the praise of > my wife). > > Any reason why the cement board would not work in this type application? Cement board porous and not very strong. I'd be worried about freeze thaw cycles. I had a scrap outside, probably longer than your granddaughter would want to play in the house, but it disintegrated sitting on the ground under leaves. They make vinyl coated wire mesh, usually green which would blend with the grass. If you want a foundation look, lay out a cinder block foundation set in a shallow trench. You could do the same with 6x6 landscape timbers set into the ground. Peter Thomas > What is the cement product called that is used to finish foundations and > give them a smooth look? > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions > > Bob Nogueira > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From cavanadd at frontier.com Fri Jan 28 23:52:00 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:52:00 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Skirt for a Play Cottage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D43B910.3000808@frontier.com> Why not go ahead and use the wire netting or hardware cloth, and then put wood lattice over it. The wire would never show. bob at texmog.com wrote: > In the back yard we have a play house (8'X10') that I built 20 years ago > for my daughter. Now my granddaughter wants to play in it so I am about to > do a remodel. > > The biggest problem is that it sits about 6 inches above the ground on nine > 12" X 12" concrete pads. The last couple of years some critters have taken > up residence during the spring under the house. I'd like to do a skirt > around the house to keep the critters out this coming spring. > > My first thought was to use wire fencing material around the base but my > wife nixed that idea as ugly. > > My next idea was to use pressure treated wood around the base but that would > still allow a critter to dig under the house. > > So what I'm thing of doing is to use cement board, used as a base for > laying tile, since I could dig a trench and have it several inches into the > ground to discourage digging. I would then coat the cement board with a thin > coat of concrete to give it the look of a foundation ( and win the praise of > my wife). > > Any reason why the cement board would not work in this type application? > > What is the cement product called that is used to finish foundations and > give them a smooth look? > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions > > Bob Nogueira > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com From eric at megageek.com Sat Jan 29 04:51:53 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 06:51:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: Back in the late nineties, Microsoft made a phone. It had a software interface and had some limited controls like you are asking. With a little code knowledge, you could make it do what you wanted. The problem was that the phone needed to be the "first" phone on the line and all other phones had to go through it. For the money, it was an excellent product. Any PBX will do this, but you are talking big bucks and major setup. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson "Peter J. Thomas" Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 01/28/2011 06:39 PM To shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net cc Subject [Shop-talk] Phone line management My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time of cay that they can be call and be called. Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op Peter Thomas From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat Jan 29 06:55:03 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 08:55:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Skirt for a Play Cottage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D441C37.3090009@xxiii.com> On 1/28/2011 11:28 PM, bob at texmog.com wrote: > In the back yard we have a play house (8'X10') that I built 20 years ago > for my daughter. Now my granddaughter wants to play in it so I am about to > do a remodel. > Any reason why the cement board would not work in this type application? I don't know if tile backer-board (think that's what I usually hear it called) is really rated for continuous moisture exposure. I figured it could tolerate a little dampness but wasn't meant to be soaked. How about the skirting they sell for mobile homes? Think it's plastic or fiberglass material. Most the ones I've seen have a faux rock or brick pattern molded in; it might be too large a scale to look right on a miniature house, but something to consider. Sounds like a fun project; hope the granddaughter likes it. -Wayne From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 07:50:09 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 09:50:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D43882A.4010100@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> <4D43882A.4010100@comcast.net> Message-ID: What about google voice? You get a number from them, and then can control where calls to that number are actually directed. You can set it to ring a number of phones, all at once, or one after another. And you can control based on time of the call, so that at certain times, it goes straight ot voicemail. (which it can transcribe into text, and email you). And you can override that by calling number. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Sat Jan 29 08:41:08 2011 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:41:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Skirt for a Play Cottage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000801cbbfca$f3eff740$dbcfe5c0$@cablespeed.com> Bob the "critters" are awfully smart.....I hate to admit it but they are sometimes smarter than I am. Unless you are committed to digging a REALLY deep trench I doubt that you will keep out ground hogs or raccoons. I have tried live traps on raccoons but those *&^%#@ are so smart, he (or his buddy on the outside) figured out how to open the door at the "release" end of the trap.....I have found that the only sure solution is lead poisoning. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of bob at texmog.com Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:29 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Skirt for a Play Cottage In the back yard we have a play house (8'X10') that I built 20 years ago for my daughter. Now my granddaughter wants to play in it so I am about to do a remodel. The biggest problem is that it sits about 6 inches above the ground on nine 12" X 12" concrete pads. The last couple of years some critters have taken up residence during the spring under the house. I'd like to do a skirt around the house to keep the critters out this coming spring. My first thought was to use wire fencing material around the base but my wife nixed that idea as ugly. My next idea was to use pressure treated wood around the base but that would still allow a critter to dig under the house. So what I'm thing of doing is to use cement board, used as a base for laying tile, since I could dig a trench and have it several inches into the ground to discourage digging. I would then coat the cement board with a thin coat of concrete to give it the look of a foundation ( and win the praise of my wife). Any reason why the cement board would not work in this type application? What is the cement product called that is used to finish foundations and give them a smooth look? Thanks in advance for any suggestions Bob Nogueira _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com From tputland at charter.net Sat Jan 29 11:46:59 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 10:46:59 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20110129134659.MDR13.4483931.root@mp16> Get a vonage line. Hooks directly to your router, not through the PC, so you don't have to leave your PC on all the time. Tim ---- "Peter J. Thomas" wrote: ============= My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about an hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for work and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do not keep calling over and over again, to no avail. I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time of cay that they can be call and be called. Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op Peter Thomas _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From bolin at mwt.net Sat Jan 29 12:32:00 2011 From: bolin at mwt.net (Bob Jeffers) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:32:00 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: <28CFF4351B244B9CB21EA29AB632BD9F@BobPC> You are the father you pay the bills you told her it lasted for 1 hour. Just unhook all the phones except the one in your office and when her friends call tell them she is unavailable until a certain time when you are done with work. If you don't put your foot down now it will only get worse. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter J. Thomas" To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 5:28 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management > My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home > endlessly. I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she > ignores/misses the call waiting or conference calls which disables the > call waiting. I tried to reason with my daughter and it works for about an > hour. I've asked her to explain to her friends I use the phone for work > and they should wait til the evening to call, call once and not do not > keep calling over and over again, to no avail. > > I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. > Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter > certain numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time of > cay that they can be call and be called. > > Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op > > Peter Thomas > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bolin at mwt.net From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Sat Jan 29 13:44:12 2011 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:44:12 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone overload Message-ID: <8A5B066C42A544C681F888AFAA7177EF@delld520> <<< Thanks for all the advice. The second line may not be an option. I had a second line for dialup but disconnect when I got the cable modem. The first line went bad so the phone company switched to main line to the second. The service tech told me it was a good thing I had had it because he may not have been able to use any other lines; old lines and pretty much used up. Cell phone is not an option, only signal we get is standing in the rafter at one end of the house. Of the advice the internet phone might be an option, if cheap enough. But this does address the root problem. I need to trim her habit. Giving in and giving her very own line sends the opposite message. Equally I need to trim the habit of her friends which is most of the problem. If anyone knows of parental phone line technology I'm all ears. Peter Thomas >>> Go oldschool: put in a payphone and give her a phone allowance each month. And it will help the next generation know what those things are. http://www.payphone.com/Economy-Desktop-Payphone.html Or go new and get her and her friends to use Skype instead. Mark. With three boys, no phone overload issues From al at bighealey.org Sat Jan 29 15:33:57 2011 From: al at bighealey.org (Al Fuller) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:33:57 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone overload In-Reply-To: <8A5B066C42A544C681F888AFAA7177EF@delld520> References: <8A5B066C42A544C681F888AFAA7177EF@delld520> Message-ID: <000901cbc004$9fc32680$df497380$@org> Mark: I just switched to Vonage. They are $26.00/month for unlimited local and long distance. If you already have broadband internet, it transports your telephone over the internet. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Miller Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 3:44 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone overload <<< Thanks for all the advice. The second line may not be an option. I had a second line for dialup but disconnect when I got the cable modem. The first line went bad so the phone company switched to main line to the second. The service tech told me it was a good thing I had had it because he may not have been able to use any other lines; old lines and pretty much used up. Cell phone is not an option, only signal we get is standing in the rafter at one end of the house. Of the advice the internet phone might be an option, if cheap enough. From marka at maracing.com Sat Jan 29 16:25:48 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 18:25:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone line management In-Reply-To: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> References: <4D435112.7040003@comcast.net> Message-ID: Howdy, Get your own # for the work line. Cancel or keep the existing number as your daughter deserves. Mark On Fri, 28 Jan 2011, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > My daughter and her friends are out of control. They use the home endlessly. > I work from home; lots of missed calls, either she ignores/misses the call > waiting or conference calls which disables the call waiting. I tried to > reason with my daughter and it works for about an hour. I've asked her to > explain to her friends I use the phone for work and they should wait til the > evening to call, call once and not do not keep calling over and over again, > to no avail. > > I'm looking for something to manage the incoming and outgoing calls. > Ideally, it would go inline and intercept all incoming calls, filter certain > numbers limiting the number of calls, length of calls and time of cay that > they can be call and be called. > > Anyone know of a magical device, if not there is a business op > > Peter Thomas > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sun Jan 30 14:34:56 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 13:34:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? Message-ID: <371213.55996.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey boys, Any recommendations for a OEM style hose clamp pliers (or whether it is even a good idea)? My Aprilia came with the flat band OEM style hose clamps, and after changing the coolant, the shiny screw-style hose clamps I used to put it back together look pretty awful. Anyone with experience installing the flat-band style clamps? thanks, doug From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sun Jan 30 15:31:24 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 14:31:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: best oem hose clamp pliers? Message-ID: <102245.19658.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Guys, FWIW, here are some photos of the clamps I am trying to install: http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~shook/log_rack/IMG00141-20110130-1353.jpg http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~shook/log_rack/IMG00142-20110130-1353.jpg http://www-bcf.usc.edu/~shook/log_rack/IMG00143-20110130-1422.jpg best, doug ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: old dirtbeard To: shop talk Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 1:34:56 PM Subject: best oem hose clamp pliers? Hey boys, Any recommendations for a OEM style hose clamp pliers (or whether it is even a good idea)? My Aprilia came with the flat band OEM style hose clamps, and after changing the coolant, the shiny screw-style hose clamps I used to put it back together look pretty awful. Anyone with experience installing the flat-band style clamps? thanks, doug From eric at megageek.com Sun Jan 30 15:51:38 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:51:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? In-Reply-To: <371213.55996.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doug, I just had a massive, in ground failure of water lines last week. I bought a tool at Lowes (in the plumbing department, near the black poly pipe) for $17. The clamps were a few dollars for a bag. They worked flawlessly and I was very happy with it. For the money, it was a great investment. I would show you a link to them online, but Lowes webpage has the WORST search feature I have ever seen. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson old dirtbeard Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 01/30/2011 16:20 To shop talk cc Subject [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? Hey boys, Any recommendations for a OEM style hose clamp pliers (or whether it is even a good idea)? My Aprilia came with the flat band OEM style hose clamps, and after changing the coolant, the shiny screw-style hose clamps I used to put it back together look pretty awful. Anyone with experience installing the flat-band style clamps? thanks, doug _______________________________________________ From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 16:11:56 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:11:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? In-Reply-To: <371213.55996.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <371213.55996.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 4:34 PM, old dirtbeard wrote: > Hey boys, > > > Any recommendations for a OEM style hose clamp pliers (or whether it is even a > good idea)? My Aprilia came with the flat band OEM style hose clamps, and after > changing the coolant, the shiny screw-style hose clamps I used to put it back > together look pretty awful. Lisle make a tooll that's not bad. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From pj_thomas at comcast.net Sun Jan 30 16:25:24 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 18:25:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone overload In-Reply-To: <8A5B066C42A544C681F888AFAA7177EF@delld520> References: <8A5B066C42A544C681F888AFAA7177EF@delld520> Message-ID: <4D45F364.2040503@comcast.net> On 1/29/2011 3:44 PM, Mark Miller wrote: > <<< > Thanks for all the advice. The second line may not be an option. I had > a second line for dialup but disconnect when I got the cable modem. The > first line went bad so the phone company switched to main line to the > second. The service tech told me it was a good thing I had had it > because he may not have been able to use any other lines; old lines and > pretty much used up. > > Cell phone is not an option, only signal we get is standing in the > rafter at one end of the house. > > Of the advice the internet phone might be an option, if cheap enough. > > But this does address the root problem. I need to trim her habit. > Giving in and giving her very own line sends the opposite message. > Equally I need to trim the habit of her friends which is most of the > problem. If anyone knows of parental phone line technology I'm all ears. > > Peter Thomas > Go oldschool: put in a payphone and give her a phone allowance each month. > > And it will help the next generation know what those things are. > > http://www.payphone.com/Economy-Desktop-Payphone.html That Brady Bunch episode came to mind when I was writing it. > Or go new and get her and her friends to use Skype instead. Have her set up with Skype and she does use it. They use Skype AND the land line at the same time. Along with AIM. Only problem with Skype, it rings through her computer so the computer must be on and she must be in ear shot. Peter T. > Mark. > > With three boys, no phone overload issues Girls are a different universe. Boy's phone call: "Hey" "Hey" "You going tonight?." "Yeah" "See ya" End of message. My email account has a size limit on messages so I can't include the girls version of the same conversation. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From shochschild at att.net Sun Jan 30 16:58:42 2011 From: shochschild at att.net (shochschild at att.net) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:58:42 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: Re: Phone overload Message-ID: <4D45FB32.7080100@att.net> Vive le difference!! On 1/30/2011 5:25 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > Girls are a different universe. From bobkegel at comcast.net Sun Jan 30 18:03:41 2011 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:03:41 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? In-Reply-To: <371213.55996.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <70A160C7B5714857887FE38CE4EDA567@robertve2wc7wm> You don't like shiny or you don't like screw clamps? I use Oetiker ear clamps on my fuel lines. http://www.oetiker.com/content.asp?l=4&idNavig=28 If you don't like worm-drive screw clamps, check out ABA mini clamps. These were OEM on my old Bimmers. Bob Kegel Aberdeen, WA From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sun Jan 30 18:48:15 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:48:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? In-Reply-To: <70A160C7B5714857887FE38CE4EDA567@robertve2wc7wm> References: <70A160C7B5714857887FE38CE4EDA567@robertve2wc7wm> Message-ID: <661590.90122.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Bob, Thank you for your response and suggestions. Actually I just realized that clamp technologies have moved ahead a great deal in the last 20 years and the screw-type clamps probably are inferior (e.g., tend to chew into the rubber, do not clamp evenly around the circumference, are difficult to access in many tight areas in a water-cooled performance motorcycle, are bulky, look unsightly in exposed areas, etc.). I was just hoping to reuse the original clamps or something similar. I attached urls for photos of the clamp in the previous message, but do not know if it is a "standard product" or something that only the Italian motorcycle manufactures are using. :-) best, doug ____________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 To: shop talk Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 5:03:41 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? You don't like shiny or you don't like screw clamps? I use Oetiker ear clamps on my fuel lines. http://www.oetiker.com/content.asp?l=4&idNavig=28 If you don't like worm-drive screw clamps, check out ABA mini clamps. These were OEM on my old Bimmers. Bob Kegel Aberdeen, WA _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Sun Jan 30 19:28:14 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:28:14 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Phone overload In-Reply-To: <000901cbc004$9fc32680$df497380$@org> References: <8A5B066C42A544C681F888AFAA7177EF@delld520> <000901cbc004$9fc32680$df497380$@org> Message-ID: <4D461E3E.9050505@tx.rr.com> Between my office and my house I've had at least 5 different ISP's. None of them have been reliable enough for me to use them for telephone service. > If you already have broadband internet, it transports your > telephone over the internet. From tvacc at lotusowners.com Sun Jan 30 19:58:10 2011 From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:58:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? In-Reply-To: <661590.90122.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <70A160C7B5714857887FE38CE4EDA567@robertve2wc7wm> <661590.90122.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Last year I was at Fleetpride in Buffalo NY. I think they are all over the US. They have a really nice set of hose clamps, the screw kind that are very heavy duty and very expensive. I now use those when I have any doubt. They work great. I forgot the name of them. They had them on the counter. Tony Vaccaro LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York) www.lotusowners.com 716-861-1412 This document and any files or e-mail messages attached to it contain data or information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise restricted from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the data or information contained herein or in any of the attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document or transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy, delete or erase this document and all attachments. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of old dirtbeard Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:48 PM To: bobkegel at comcast.net; shop talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? Hi Bob, Thank you for your response and suggestions. Actually I just realized that clamp technologies have moved ahead a great deal in the last 20 years and the screw-type clamps probably are inferior (e.g., tend to chew into the rubber, do not clamp evenly around the circumference, are difficult to access in many tight areas in a water-cooled performance motorcycle, are bulky, look unsightly in exposed areas, etc.). I was just hoping to reuse the original clamps or something similar. I attached urls for photos of the clamp in the previous message, but do not know if it is a "standard product" or something that only the Italian motorcycle manufactures are using. :-) best, doug ____________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van '07 Aprilia SXV 550 To: shop talk Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 5:03:41 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? You don't like shiny or you don't like screw clamps? I use Oetiker ear clamps on my fuel lines. http://www.oetiker.com/content.asp?l=4&idNavig=28 If you don't like worm-drive screw clamps, check out ABA mini clamps. These were OEM on my old Bimmers. Bob Kegel Aberdeen, WA _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5832 (20110130) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5832 (20110130) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5832 (20110130) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 20:54:53 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:54:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] best oem hose clamp pliers? In-Reply-To: <661590.90122.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <70A160C7B5714857887FE38CE4EDA567@robertve2wc7wm> <661590.90122.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 8:48 PM, old dirtbeard wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Thank you for your response and suggestions. > > Actually I just realized that clamp technologies have moved ahead a great deal > in the last 20 years and the screw-type clamps probably are inferior (e.g., tend > to chew into the rubber, do not clamp evenly around the circumference, are > difficult to access in many tight areas in a water-cooled performance > motorcycle, are bulky, look unsightly in exposed areas, etc.). > > > I was just hoping to reuse the original clamps or something similar. I attached > urls for photos of the clamp in the previous message, but do not know if it is a > "standard product" or something that only the Italian motorcycle manufactures > are using. :-) > Flat band clamps are generally not reusable. The big advantage of them (beyond being easier to install with mechanized equipment.) is that they're constant tension, within a range of diameters. AS the hose expands or contracts, the band adjusts, and hte clamping force is the same. Normal worm type clamps don't, and can creep. There are a rather shocking variety of clamps available, which I suspect is a patent issue. You many not be able to get your exact style except from the dealer, but who knows. There are constant tension screw-type hose clamps; they're resuable. (Gates sells a product line called "green stripe" that includes them. I think there are others, as well.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Mon Jan 31 19:45:04 2011 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:45:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable garage heater Message-ID: I currently use a 14k BTU Mr. Heater tank-top style heater to heat the garage up and work on the car. What I'd like is something that can heat the garage up quicker and get it about 5-10 degrees warmer for the extra cold days/nights. All this snow and colder weather, means less desire to go out there and beat the cold. So I'm thinking a torpedo style in the 35-55k BTU range would do the trick. I already have a few 20# propane tanks around, and I don't think I'd like the smell of Kerosene much. Does the torpedo style do a good job of pushing heat into the space? Does it need alot of clearance in the front of it, or does it get too hot? I have a 20' x 20' uninsulated, old garage with a peaked roof, and I run a ceiling fan up there when it's heated. Any particular brands to look for or stay away from? Amazon has some pretty amazing looking deals on Mr. Heater brands. I'd rather buy new and stay away from a used and potentially unsafe unit... Based on reviews I'm leaning toward this unit: http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-MH55FAV-Forced-Propane/dp/B0000C6E3J/ref=pd_s im_k_2 The adjustable heat setting would be useful I think. 55k output seems pretty good for my situation. Anyone have issues with the moisture output from this size of a propane heater and their tools? Never noticed any issues with my smaller one. Also want to invest in a CO detector for the garage... Should I worry about a fresh air source at this size heater? Any way, thanks for any input.-PJ From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Jan 31 20:26:36 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:26:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable garage heater In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D477D6C.9080401@xxiii.com> On 1/31/2011 9:45 PM, PJ McGarvey wrote: > So I'm thinking a torpedo style in the 35-55k BTU range would do the trick. I > already have a few 20# propane tanks around, and I don't think I'd like the > smell of Kerosene much. Does the torpedo style do a good job of pushing heat > into the space? Does it need alot of clearance in the front of it, or does it > get too hot? I have a 20' x 20' uninsulated, old garage with a peaked roof, > and I run a ceiling fan up there when it's heated. > Any particular brands to look for or stay away from? Amazon has some pretty > amazing looking deals on Mr. Heater brands. I'd rather buy new and stay away > from a used and potentially unsafe unit... Based on reviews I'm leaning > toward this unit: I had a 30K btu propane Reddy Heater (they're out of business now) I used in an attached garage in Ohio. With insulation and shielding from the house, it would get comfortable warm even down around 10s to teens degree. Now I have essentially the same heater in Western North Carolina. Garage is basement under house, and partially below grade. It only gets down to high 40s even in relatively extreme cold. The heater does a great job of taking the chill off and getting it to 50s or 60s. It won't warm the slab or large objects, but keeps my fingers from getting numb. Besides, 50s feel pretty good if you're actively working. They claim it is "quiet and odorless" but that's bull. It's pretty noisy, and the propane fumes can get annoying and drift up into the house. I usually keep a door and window cracked for ventilation, and use that to modulate temperature. Kerosene heaters I've been around are much nosier and smelly. A 20lb propane tank is kinda marginal for the 30K heater. It will develop a thick layer of frost, and start to loose pressure. Northern Tool had some decent looking propane units on sale recently. -HTH, Wayne From kvacek at ameritech.net Mon Jan 31 20:49:44 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:49:44 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable garage heater In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001cbc1c3$10a826b0$31f87410$@ameritech.net> I have a Reddy Heater, made by DESA, same as Mr. Heater. It's a propane torpedo heater, I think 75,000 to 125,000 btu. Works great, but it does put out a jet of hot air and some flame for up to a foot or so. And it's a bit loud, but not terrible. Also, be aware that combustion creates lots of water in the atmosphere, so the humidity will rise and condensation will form on cold surfaces in the garage. I bought it as a floor sample from Lowe's, about half price, and did have a problem that required parts. DESA was great about it, and when the first part they sent didn't fix it, they sent me another one of those just in case, plus something else (sorry, I don't remember what it was - it was 5 years ago). In any event it was a simple repair, the second set of parts did it, and it's been troublefree since. Karl -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PJ McGarvey Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 20:45 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable garage heater I currently use a 14k BTU Mr. Heater tank-top style heater to heat the garage up and work on the car. What I'd like is something that can heat the garage up quicker and get it about 5-10 degrees warmer for the extra cold days/nights. All this snow and colder weather, means less desire to go out there and beat the cold. So I'm thinking a torpedo style in the 35-55k BTU range would do the trick. I already have a few 20# propane tanks around, and I don't think I'd like the smell of Kerosene much. Does the torpedo style do a good job of pushing heat into the space? Does it need alot of clearance in the front of it, or does it get too hot? I have a 20' x 20' uninsulated, old garage with a peaked roof, and I run a ceiling fan up there when it's heated. Any particular brands to look for or stay away from? Amazon has some pretty amazing looking deals on Mr. Heater brands. I'd rather buy new and stay away from a used and potentially unsafe unit... Based on reviews I'm leaning toward this unit: http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-MH55FAV-Forced-Propane/dp/B0000C6E3J/ref=pd_ s im_k_2 The adjustable heat setting would be useful I think. 55k output seems pretty good for my situation. Anyone have issues with the moisture output from this size of a propane heater and their tools? Never noticed any issues with my smaller one. Also want to invest in a CO detector for the garage... Should I worry about a fresh air source at this size heater? Any way, thanks for any input.-PJ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/kvacek at ameritech.net