From jandkstone99 at msn.com Mon Dec 5 17:26:50 2011 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 18:26:50 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] HF Double Cut Saw Message-ID: Has anyone tried the Harbor Freight Double Cut Saw? It is certainly a great deal at its current $70 price, if it is any good. The feedback on it is certainly mixed. It sounds like it works well, provided the motor doesn't burn out in the first 5 minutes of use. Since I am only 10 minutes away from my nearest HF, the hassle having to exchange one isn't too big a deal, if it cuts as advertised. http://www.harborfreight.com/5-double-cut-saw-68316-8065.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2Rl IjoiNDA3MTgxNTIiLCJza3UiOiI2ODMxNiIsImlzIjoiNjkuOTkiLCJwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjo iODA2NSJ9%0D%0A&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4811b&utm_source=1002 And, speaking of the feedback, there is an interesting review with very specific instructions on breaking in a new motor: "Before using your saw, Run the Motor! Electric motors need breaking in before use! Putting a load on a tool before breaking in the motor is damaging to the saw! It's Easy! Turn on and run for 30 seconds then let cool for 5 minutes, then run for 1 minute, then cool, repeat several times and you should be good. Do this to all your new tools. Sure, you may get a bad one, if so, you will know instantly. With HF's excellent return policy, it should be no problem. Putting stress on a brand new motor damages the brushes and motor itself." I have never heard this advice before. Would others here recommend that too? From r_rochlin at hotmail.com Tue Dec 6 10:52:18 2011 From: r_rochlin at hotmail.com (Bob Rochlin) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 17:52:18 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] HF Double Cut Saw In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can't speak to the motors burning out, but every HF electric motor tool I've gotten (2) has been really noisy. The 1/2 drill I got for my Easy Car Lift requires ear plugs to use for the period of time it takes to lift the car. That said, it does perform well... Bob > From: jandkstone99 at msn.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 18:26:50 -0600 > Subject: [Shop-talk] HF Double Cut Saw > > Has anyone tried the Harbor Freight Double Cut Saw? It is certainly a great > deal at its current $70 price, if it is any good. The feedback on it is > certainly mixed. It sounds like it works well, provided the motor doesn't > burn out in the first 5 minutes of use. Since I am only 10 minutes away from > my nearest HF, the hassle having to exchange one isn't too big a deal, if it > cuts as advertised. > > http://www.harborfreight.com/5-double-cut-saw-68316-8065.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2Rl > IjoiNDA3MTgxNTIiLCJza3UiOiI2ODMxNiIsImlzIjoiNjkuOTkiLCJwcm9kdWN0X2lk%0D%0AIjo > iODA2NSJ9%0D%0A&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4811b&utm_source=1002 > > And, speaking of the feedback, there is an interesting review with very > specific instructions on breaking in a new motor: > > "Before using your saw, Run the Motor! Electric motors need breaking in > before use! Putting a load on a tool before breaking in the motor is > damaging to the saw! It's Easy! > Turn on and run for 30 seconds then > let cool for 5 minutes, then run for 1 minute, then cool, repeat several > times and you should be good. Do this to all your new tools. Sure, you > may get a bad one, if so, you will know instantly. With HF's excellent > return policy, it should be no problem. Putting stress on a brand new > motor damages the brushes and motor itself." > > I have never heard this advice before. Would others here recommend that too? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/r_rochlin at hotmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Dec 6 11:10:50 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:10:50 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] HF Double Cut Saw In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <039e01ccb442$639a7590$2acf60b0$@rr.com> > I can't speak to the motors burning out, I have several HF electric tools that have performed well for quite a few years. I really didn't expect the angle grinder to last, as it sounds hideous, kind of like a buzz saw cutting through a bee hive, but it is still going strong over 20 years later. But the first die grinder I got from HF died within seconds. A quick inspection showed that one of the field wires had gotten tangled in the rotor. This was not a matter of incorrect break-in or operator abuse; obviously a manufacturing defect, and clearly the motor had never been tested. So IMO it's just the luck of the draw. The designs are OK, materials marginal; but quality control is totally non-existent. The replacement die grinder worked just fine. Oh, and IMO the break-in instructions that were quoted are of questionable benefit at best. They might possibly contribute to longer brush and/or commutator life; but brushes are a consumable anyway and I don't recall ever having an electric motor disabled because the commutator was worn beyond use. Even worn out brushes are pretty rare in my experience (mostly in 50+ year old equipment, like the original generator on my 56 TR3). -- Randall From pj_thomas at comcast.net Tue Dec 6 12:11:17 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:11:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] HF Double Cut Saw In-Reply-To: <039e01ccb442$639a7590$2acf60b0$@rr.com> References: <039e01ccb442$639a7590$2acf60b0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4EDE68D5.2040809@comcast.net> On 12/6/2011 1:10 PM, Randall wrote: >> I can't speak to the motors burning out, > I have several HF electric tools that have performed well for quite a few > years. I really didn't expect the angle grinder to last, as it sounds > hideous, kind of like a buzz saw cutting through a bee hive, but it is still > going strong over 20 years later. > > But the first die grinder I got from HF died within seconds. A quick > inspection showed that one of the field wires had gotten tangled in the > rotor. This was not a matter of incorrect break-in or operator abuse; > obviously a manufacturing defect, and clearly the motor had never been > tested. > > So IMO it's just the luck of the draw. The designs are OK, materials > marginal; but quality control is totally non-existent. The replacement die > grinder worked just fine. > > Oh, and IMO the break-in instructions that were quoted are of questionable > benefit at best. They might possibly contribute to longer brush and/or > commutator life; but brushes are a consumable anyway and I don't recall ever > having an electric motor disabled because the commutator was worn beyond > use. Even worn out brushes are pretty rare in my experience (mostly in 50+ > year old equipment, like the original generator on my 56 TR3). This appears to be a knock off of the "As Seen On TV" tool. Don't know the specs of the original or actually how well it works, but the link says this model has a 7.5 amp motor which seems light for a saw. It's has a 5" double blade so I'd expect it to need the same power as a 7.5" single blade circular saw. My circular saw is 10 amp and still whimpy. My old corded drill is 9 amp. The 7.5 amp is more than my 4.5" angle grinder, 5 amps. Since it's a knock off I would not be surprised if the actually power delivered by the double blade saw (efficiency of the motor, added gearing to run two blades, general quality, etc) was comparable to my angle grinder, not enough IMHO for a saw. Can't speak for the validity of the break in advise. As Randal pointed out I don't think the brushes are an issue since they are spring loaded and bear no load. Randal obviously proved his motor was never run so the bearings were never broken in. Breaking in for the bearing makes sense. Initially the machined bearing surfaces are a little rough. First time the motor is run those surfaces will heat up. If you put it immediately under load I could see that surfaces might anneal and dig in instead of wearing evenly. Then again everyone pulls the trigger a few times on a new toy, I mean tool, anyway. At least I don't think breaking in the motor would hurt. Food for thought. Peter T. From eric at megageek.com Fri Dec 9 08:04:41 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 10:04:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. Message-ID: OK, As part of my Squadron Historian duties of the US Army, 102 CAV, I have found 6 16mm rolls of film. I'm not exactly sure what is on these. I know there are services out there that can transfer them to DVD. But here is my problem. I'm not sure what exactly is on them. So I don't want to spend money from the Essex's troop (this money is all donated and not from the unit) if the film is worthless or blank. So, does anyone have experience on a service that I can use to transfer them, and an idea on how to view them first without wasting alot of money. Note, there is a chance that footage on these rolls may be of historic value so I don't want to lose, or mess them up. TIA. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Dec 9 08:12:18 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 10:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you mean undeveloped film? On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 10:04 AM, wrote: > OK, As part of my Squadron Historian duties of the US Army, 102 CAV, I > have found 6 16mm rolls of film. > > I'm not From eric at megageek.com Fri Dec 9 08:15:10 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 10:15:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The film is developed and ready to be played. (And yes, I could hold a flashlight to it and see the images) But I just am trying to figure out what I can do to view it first, before spending money on conversion. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Doug Braun 12/09/2011 10:12 To eric at megageek.com, Shop-Talk cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. Do you mean undeveloped film? On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 10:04 AM, wrote: > OK, As part of my Squadron Historian duties of the US Army, 102 CAV, I > have found 6 16mm rolls of film. > > I'm not From jem at milleredp.com Fri Dec 9 08:25:51 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 07:25:51 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EE2287F.9000007@milleredp.com> On 12/9/2011 7:15 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > The film is developed and ready to be played. (And yes, I could hold a > flashlight to it and see the images) > > But I just am trying to figure out what I can do to view it first, before > spending money on conversion. Anywhere you can rent a 16mm projector? Got a university library nearby? John. From james.f.juhas at snet.net Fri Dec 9 09:21:27 2011 From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (James F Juhas) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 11:21:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: <4EE2287F.9000007@milleredp.com> References: <4EE2287F.9000007@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <4EE23587.90405@snet.net> Eric: A university library or AV department (at the University where I work it's called Media Services now)is likely to have a projector, but they are also likely to have an editing viewer. These are generally hand cranked machines that will advance the film through at your own pace, and because it's only a viewer, the lamp is low powered and generates less heat than a projector and so will be kinder to old delicate film. Also, University athletics departments sometimes house significant sports libraries, and while most have probably converted old stuff to digital media, they may still have equipment remaining. On 12/9/2011 10:25 AM, John Miller wrote: > On 12/9/2011 7:15 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: >> The film is developed and ready to be played. (And yes, I could hold a >> flashlight to it and see the images) >> >> But I just am trying to figure out what I can do to view it first, >> before >> spending money on conversion. > > Anywhere you can rent a 16mm projector? > > Got a university library nearby? > > John. > _______________________________________________ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of james_f_juhas.vcf] From eric at megageek.com Fri Dec 9 16:12:06 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 18:12:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quick update... my church had a projector and I brought it to my house and played them all. They played well and I can't believe that 70 film is still going strong. See what a VHS tape looks like after 20 years! 8>) Thanks for all the help. Now I just need to find a reputable place to send the film for conversion. Anyone have any experience with this? Thanks again! Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Jeff Scarbrough 12/09/2011 12:57 PM To eric at megageek.com cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 11:53 AM, wrote: > I'm in Western NJ. Hopefully that is close. 8>) Sadly, not so much - he's in Cincinnati. I found this place which is close to me http://www.nostalgicmedia.com/Zpage%20FILM%20VIDEO.htm that will loan you a viewer so you can look at it easily before you commit to having it converted. There might be a place like that near you. Otherwise the local college or library sounds good. Maybe a TV station that still has film editing equipment? They might let you take a look, especially if there's something they might want to show later. I'm still waiting to hear from my friend regarding old projectors and handling old film. If he can't do it personally, he might have advice... Cheers, Jeff From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Sat Dec 10 08:32:33 2011 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:32:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111210153233.GA50085@sackheads.org> On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 10:04:41AM -0500, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, As part of my Squadron Historian duties of the US Army, 102 CAV, I > have found 6 16mm rolls of film. > > I'm not exactly sure what is on these. I know there are services out > there that can transfer them to DVD. But here is my problem. > > I'm not sure what exactly is on them. So I don't want to spend money from > the Essex's troop (this money is all donated and not from the unit) if the > film is worthless or blank. Contact the folks at your local university's library archives. They will either have the equipment or will be able to point you in the right direction. Further, if they think your film has historical value, they might even assist with converting it into a more accessible media format (though possibly with the condition that they get to keep a copy). Jimmie From arvidj at visi.com Sat Dec 10 11:39:48 2011 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 12:39:48 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Basement shop insulation\vapor barrier question ... Message-ID: <09A75B3D792D40F093B2B6EF89270299@HP62011> I am replacing the on the exterior walls of my basement shop. The old insulation was just fiberglass batts with no vapor barrier covered by clear plastic. The new insulation is also fiberglass batts but it has the Kraft vapor barrier on it. I would also like to put clear plastic on the wall as it will be a while before I actually get around to covering the wall with anything meaningful and the solid sheet of plastic will be easier to keep clean than the Kraft paper and bare studs. But I am worried about having two vapor barriers ... the Kraft paper and the clear plastic ... and what damage might occur if vapor or anything else gets trapped between them with no place to go. Any thoughts on this? I am over thinking this? I am under thinking this? I am not thinking? What was I thinking? Thanks, Arvid From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Dec 10 14:36:17 2011 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 16:36:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Basement shop insulation\vapor barrier question ... In-Reply-To: <09A75B3D792D40F093B2B6EF89270299@HP62011> References: <09A75B3D792D40F093B2B6EF89270299@HP62011> Message-ID: In my opinion you're way overthinking it :-) I'd not use the clear plastic. Or use unfaced with the clear plastic. but not both. Why do you care about keeping it clean anyway? jim On Dec 10, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote: > I am replacing the on the exterior walls of my basement shop. > > The old insulation was just fiberglass batts with no vapor barrier covered by > clear plastic. The new insulation is also fiberglass batts but it has the > Kraft vapor barrier on it. > > I would also like to put clear plastic on the wall as it will be a while > before I actually get around to covering the wall with anything meaningful and > the solid sheet of plastic will be easier to keep clean than the Kraft paper > and bare studs. But I am worried about having two vapor barriers ... the Kraft > paper and the clear plastic ... and what damage might occur if vapor or > anything else gets trapped between them with no place to go. > > Any thoughts on this? I am over thinking this? I am under thinking this? I am > not thinking? What was I thinking? > > Thanks, > Arvid > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf at groupwbench.org From pethier at comcast.net Sat Dec 10 14:54:53 2011 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:54:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Basement shop insulation\vapor barrier question ... In-Reply-To: <09A75B3D792D40F093B2B6EF89270299@HP62011> Message-ID: <1023039464.928720.1323554093484.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Probably not a problem. But if you are concerned, you could just stab of slash a bunch of holes in the kraft paper with a knife. I have no paper in the 'glas batts in my shop walls. There is kraft paper in the ceiling batts because I put it up from below and I needed the paper edges to staple them up to the joists (gravity was not my friend). I put thick clear plastic lining the entire shop, walls and ceiling. I don't know that that is giving me any problems after 13 years, but how would I know, not having removed any of the hardboard to look? Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arvid Jedlicka" > To: "Shop Talk List" > Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:39:48 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Basement shop insulation\vapor barrier question ... > I am replacing the on the exterior walls of my basement shop. > > The old insulation was just fiberglass batts with no vapor barrier > covered by > clear plastic. The new insulation is also fiberglass batts but it has > the > Kraft vapor barrier on it. > > I would also like to put clear plastic on the wall as it will be a > while > before I actually get around to covering the wall with anything > meaningful and > the solid sheet of plastic will be easier to keep clean than the Kraft > paper > and bare studs. But I am worried about having two vapor barriers ... > the Kraft > paper and the clear plastic ... and what damage might occur if vapor > or > anything else gets trapped between them with no place to go. > > Any thoughts on this? I am over thinking this? I am under thinking > this? I am > not thinking? What was I thinking? > > Thanks, > Arvid From roadster at astound.net Sat Dec 10 17:33:06 2011 From: roadster at astound.net (Fred Katz) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 16:33:06 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9AC2C35A-1E1E-4B44-A14D-1BE7D64EE225@astound.net> Check out Costco online to see their services. I took some early 1960s film to a local Costco store, they charge $17.99 for the first 150 feet, and transfer it to DVDs. They also leave it online for a while so you can allow others to view it with your permission. One film was really bad, they returned it with no charge. All other film gets cleaned and returned with the DVDs. You might want to try one. I was hesitant at first but they did a good job. Fred On Dec 9, 2011, at 7:04 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, As part of my Squadron Historian duties of the US Army, 102 CAV, I > have found 6 16mm rolls of film. > > I'm not exactly sure what is on these. I know there are services out > there that can transfer them to DVD. But here is my problem. > > I'm not sure what exactly is on them. So I don't want to spend money from > the Essex's troop (this money is all donated and not from the unit) if the > film is worthless or blank. > > So, does anyone have experience on a service that I can use to transfer > them, and an idea on how to view them first without wasting alot of money. > > Note, there is a chance that footage on these rolls may be of historic > value so I don't want to lose, or mess them up. > > TIA. > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Sat Dec 10 18:45:51 2011 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:45:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Basement shop insulation\vapor barrier question ... In-Reply-To: <09A75B3D792D40F093B2B6EF89270299@HP62011> References: <09A75B3D792D40F093B2B6EF89270299@HP62011> Message-ID: >I would also like to put clear plastic on the wall ... But I am worried about having two vapor barriers ... the Kraft paper and the clear plastic ... and what damage might occur if vapor or anything else gets trapped between them with no place to go. You could use a water vapor permeable plastic membrane (Tyvek and cheaper equivalents) that would still let the walls breath, but keep the flow of air to a minimum -- basically what it does as a house wrap. From fishplate at gmail.com Sun Dec 11 05:54:32 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 07:54:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 6:12 PM, wrote: > Now I just need to find a reputable place to send the film for conversion. > Anyone have any experience with this? Not specifically, but I would caution you to not send all the film in one bunch... In my case, I found a company 60 miles away that does conversion on-site. Though I haven't used them yet, I can go look first and see how they take care of things. I know that some companies pack up the stuff you ship them and send it overseas to be scanned. I have no reason to believe that this would be any worse, but why take a chance like that to save a few bucks for something as important as family pictures? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From peterwmurray at gmail.com Sun Dec 11 10:07:20 2011 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:07:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Basement shop insulation\vapor barrier question ... In-Reply-To: References: <09A75B3D792D40F093B2B6EF89270299@HP62011> Message-ID: On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 8:45 PM, wrote: > You could use a water vapor permeable plastic membrane (Tyvek and cheaper > equivalents) that would still let the walls breath, but keep the flow of air > to a minimum -- basically what it does as a house wrap. I had something similar in mind for my attic. I currently have a layer of blown insulation (from 1976), and then a second layer of R38 batts (2' X 4' each) running opposite the joists. I'm thinking of running lengths of Tyvek sheeting across the joists from gable to gable (under the newer layer of batts) to reduce upward drafts.Of course, the existing batts don't provide much of a vapor barrier, but I am more concerned about air infiltration. -Peter From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Sun Dec 11 19:08:11 2011 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 21:08:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I used CVS to convert some super 8 video and I was happy with the results (DVD quality and the condition of my returned films). The actually conversion is done by YesVideo, which I believe can be contracted independently, but I liked the idea of dropping it off and picking it up at my local CVS. I did try to find a local shop to do the conversion, but the equipment is apparently quite expensive and they all recommend YesVideo (or had no clue who to recommend). - Ian -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Scarbrough Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 7:55 AM To: eric at megageek.com Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Off topic, but I need help and I don't know where else to turn to. On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 6:12 PM, wrote: > Now I just need to find a reputable place to send the film for conversion. > Anyone have any experience with this? Not specifically, but I would caution you to not send all the film in one bunch... In my case, I found a company 60 miles away that does conversion on-site. Though I haven't used them yet, I can go look first and see how they take care of things. I know that some companies pack up the stuff you ship them and send it overseas to be scanned. I have no reason to believe that this would be any worse, but why take a chance like that to save a few bucks for something as important as family pictures? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org From jamesf at groupwbench.org Fri Dec 16 12:27:16 2011 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:27:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? Message-ID: Apologies if this is a repost, I never saw my original. I'm looking for get a friend a 5 gal portable air tank. I have a Campbell-Hausfeld but their website doesn't list them anymore. Are the Sears $30 tanks good or is there something known to be better? All the reviews for various ones on Amazon and Sears says the same thing- some love them, some think they're cheap crap. thanks, jim From shochschild at att.net Fri Dec 16 13:03:26 2011 From: shochschild at att.net (shochschild at att.net) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:03:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> I would like to piggyback on this and ask if any of us have added the hardware to an outdated propane tank to make an air pig out of it?? I remember seeing this discussed, and I seem to recall that unscrewing the original valve is a challenge -- any actual experience? To respond to the original post, I have used my Harbor Freight tank for nearly 20 years, and it is fine, but it rolls around in my trailer, and I have a propane tank fitting already mounted that would hold it perfectly. Thanx as always On 12/16/2011 1:27 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > Apologies if this is a repost, I never saw my original. > > I'm looking for get a friend a 5 gal portable air tank. I have a > Campbell-Hausfeld but their website doesn't list them anymore. Are the > Sears $30 tanks good or is there something known to be better? All the > reviews for various ones on Amazon and Sears says the same thing- some > love them, some think they're cheap crap. > > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From mbarre at juno.com Fri Dec 16 13:20:17 2011 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:20:17 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? Message-ID: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> A key part of the answer is to have a reasonable expectation of what you can do with it. I use the one I bought many years ago at Kmart or Walmart (can't remember) all the time to top off tires that I can't stretch my hose to. It is getting old and I don't religiously flip it over and drain any condensate out so I don't think I would like to test max pressure on it. When I was younger and slightly less wiser I used a converted freon tank. Now some of the jump boxes with built in cheap compressors might make more sense... Matt ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Jim Franklin" To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:27:16 -0500 Apologies if this is a repost, I never saw my original. I'm looking for get a friend a 5 gal portable air tank. I have a Campbell-Hausfeld but their website doesn't list them anymore. Are the Sears $30 tanks good or is there something known to be better? All the reviews for various ones on Amazon and Sears says the same thing- some love them, some think they're cheap crap. thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mbarre at juno.com From arvidj at visi.com Fri Dec 16 13:39:14 2011 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:39:14 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> References: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> Message-ID: <2EADA1E16EC8465BB94BE6A53A5E8D3C@HP62011> I've only taken two off and both were a PITA. The two issues were very related. The first is that both valves were put on by a gorilla. Not sure what the torque specs are on it but it either looks like phone number or they have a very big bulk purchase agreement with the Loctite people. Very possibly both. The second issue I had was difficulty getting any kind of wrench or tool on the valve. It seemed like the "handle-guard-whatever you call it" on the top of the tank was very effective at protecting the valve -- to the point of it getting in the way no matter what tool I used. I eventually got both of them off but it was a real "how can something that should be so simple be so difficult" 45 minutes. And of course any thoughts related to "heat it and it will loosen up" -- my usual remedy for such situations -- were out of the question. Just my experience and I am assuming most everyone else has a much easier time of it, Arvid -----Original Message----- From: shochschild at att.net Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 2:03 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? I would like to piggyback on this and ask if any of us have added the hardware to an outdated propane tank to make an air pig out of it?? I remember seeing this discussed, and I seem to recall that unscrewing the original valve is a challenge -- any actual experience? To respond to the original post, I have used my Harbor Freight tank for nearly 20 years, and it is fine, but it rolls around in my trailer, and I have a propane tank fitting already mounted that would hold it perfectly. Thanx as always From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Dec 16 14:19:48 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:19:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <2EADA1E16EC8465BB94BE6A53A5E8D3C@HP62011> References: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> <2EADA1E16EC8465BB94BE6A53A5E8D3C@HP62011> Message-ID: <4EEBB5F4.3050102@gmail.com> Wow. That's calling for my typical frustrated "It either disassembles and I'm done, or it breaks, and I need to buy a new one. But either way, I'll have *this* part in my hand by the end of the day!" disassembly method. Bonus in this instance: if you survive, there are no little parts everywhere to clean up. Someone in the next country can deal with it. :) On 12/16/2011 3:39 PM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote: > I eventually got both of them off but it was a real "how can something > that should be so simple be so difficult" 45 minutes. And of course > any thoughts related to "heat it and it will loosen up" -- my usual > remedy for such situations -- were out of the question. From bspidell at comcast.net Fri Dec 16 14:22:29 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 21:22:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1906760592.1189782.1324070549420.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have an old CH tank. Nothing wrong with the tank or the gauge, but the flimsy plastic valves will leak sooner or later. Bob -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Franklin" To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 11:27:16 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? Apologies if this is a repost, I never saw my original. I'm looking for get a friend a 5 gal portable air tank. I have a Campbell-Hausfeld but their website doesn't list them anymore. Are the Sears $30 tanks good or is there something known to be better? All the reviews for various ones on Amazon and Sears says the same thing- some love them, some think they're cheap crap. thanks, jim From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Dec 16 15:20:12 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:20:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <1906760592.1189782.1324070549420.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1906760592.1189782.1324070549420.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4EEBC41C.1010306@gmail.com> I have a Harbor Freight tank. Took off the plastic stock valve. It still leaks. On 12/16/2011 4:22 PM, Bob Spidell wrote: > I have an old CH tank. Nothing wrong with the tank or the gauge, but the flimsy plastic valves will leak sooner or later. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Dec 16 15:38:15 2011 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:38:15 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> References: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> Message-ID: <02f301ccbc43$66d30d40$347927c0$@rr.com> > I remember seeing this discussed, and I seem to recall that unscrewing > the original valve is a challenge -- any actual experience? Not quite experience, but I once had the local propane dealer replace a valve. The tank was clamped into a hinged metal claw sort of thing, and held there by a log chain and chain binder. As I recall, he used a wrench that was clearly purpose-made and had a handle about 4 feet long. And he still had to put his back into it to get the valve to turn. I have a different local dealer now, but they quoted me around $20 the other day for replacing the valve. Might be worth asking if yours would just remove the old valve and hand you back the pieces for $5 or so. -- Randall From shochschild at att.net Fri Dec 16 15:48:30 2011 From: shochschild at att.net (shochschild at att.net) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:48:30 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <02f301ccbc43$66d30d40$347927c0$@rr.com> References: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> <02f301ccbc43$66d30d40$347927c0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4EEBCABE.6070704@att.net> Great suggestion, especially as I was needing to go by there anyway to refill a different tank. Thanx! On 12/16/2011 4:38 PM, Randall wrote: >> I remember seeing this discussed, and I seem to recall that unscrewing >> the original valve is a challenge -- any actual experience? > Not quite experience, but I once had the local propane dealer replace a > valve. The tank was clamped into a hinged metal claw sort of thing, and held > there by a log chain and chain binder. As I recall, he used a wrench that > was clearly purpose-made and had a handle about 4 feet long. And he still > had to put his back into it to get the valve to turn. > > I have a different local dealer now, but they quoted me around $20 the other > day for replacing the valve. Might be worth asking if yours would just > remove the old valve and hand you back the pieces for $5 or so. > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/shochschild at att.net From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Dec 16 17:51:11 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:51:11 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <2EADA1E16EC8465BB94BE6A53A5E8D3C@HP62011> References: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> <2EADA1E16EC8465BB94BE6A53A5E8D3C@HP62011> Message-ID: <9C7CD56C-AF07-4927-965C-EF2A37C85B43@gmail.com> On Dec 16, 2011, at 2:39 PM, "Arvid Jedlicka" wrote: > I've only taken two off and both were a PITA. The two issues were very related. > > The first is that both valves were put on by a gorilla. Not sure what the torque specs are on it but it either looks like phone number or they have a very big bulk purchase agreement with the Loctite people. Very possibly both. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Dec 16 17:55:44 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:55:44 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <2EADA1E16EC8465BB94BE6A53A5E8D3C@HP62011> References: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> <2EADA1E16EC8465BB94BE6A53A5E8D3C@HP62011> Message-ID: <661F49A6-3C0A-4485-82A0-9E746ED8C147@gmail.com> On Dec 16, 2011, at 2:39 PM, "Arvid Jedlicka" wrote: > I've only taken two off and both were a PITA. The two issues were very related. > > The first is that both valves were put on by a gorilla. Not sure what the torque specs are on it but it either looks like phone number or they have a very big bulk purchase agreement with the Loctite people. Very possibly both. The procedure is hand tight +3 turns. Get a gorilla to install it hand-tight, remove it counting turns, and put suitable dope on threads, and then reinstall that number of turns plus three full turns. That's an incredible amount of torque. From cavanadd at frontier.com Fri Dec 16 19:35:43 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:35:43 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> References: <4EEBA40E.9040004@att.net> Message-ID: <4EEBFFFF.8030009@frontier.com> I have an old portable propane tank I use for a portable air tank. I did the conversion probably 15 years ago and all I remember is that the valve was really hard to get out and you need to be ingenious in securing the tank so you can get enough torque on it. It also takes quite a while for all the propane smell to go away. shochschild at att.net wrote: > I would like to piggyback on this and ask if any of us have added the > hardware to an outdated propane tank to make an air pig out of it?? > > I remember seeing this discussed, and I seem to recall that unscrewing > the original valve is a challenge -- any actual experience? From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri Dec 16 19:31:56 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 21:31:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EED47BDE2734EDBABE1BFCC2D363324@EricJRussellPC> I bought a portable tank from Tractor Supply. Sale price plus a coupon meant I paid ~ $20. It is certainly worth that! The tank seems to be sturdy but the fittings seem of low quality but they don't leak and could be replaced if/when they fail. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Franklin" To: Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? > Apologies if this is a repost, I never saw my original. > > I'm looking for get a friend a 5 gal portable air tank. I have a > Campbell-Hausfeld but their website doesn't list them anymore. Are the > Sears $30 tanks good or is there something known to be better? All the > reviews for various ones on Amazon and Sears says the same thing- some > love them, some think they're cheap crap. > > thanks, > jim From mark at bradakis.com Fri Dec 16 21:06:34 2011 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 21:06:34 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> Something to consider when getting an air tank: http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18 mjb. From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Dec 17 07:14:05 2011 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:14:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:06 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > Something to consider when getting an air tank: > > http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18 Air line fittings is what I'm doing today, going to decide on a standard and buy a wheelbarrow full so I never have to wonder. What style do people like? Or is it mostly about accidentally stumbling on a style and well that's what you use? From jmitch at snet.net Sat Dec 17 07:26:36 2011 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:26:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <4EECA69C.30303@snet.net> If you do any painting, get the high flow fittings such as Devilbiss makes. They're more expensive, but flow a great deal more air. I just changed all my air tools over to them for consistency and the tools seem to run much better. Just my 2 cents. John Mitchell On 12/17/2011 9:14 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:06 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > >> Something to consider when getting an air tank: >> >> http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18 > Air line fittings is what I'm doing today, going to decide on a standard and > buy a wheelbarrow full so I never have to wonder. > > What style do people like? Or is it mostly about accidentally stumbling on a > style and well that's what you use? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jmitch at snet.net From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Dec 17 08:17:57 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:17:57 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> At one time, there were two or three styles of fitting, but 'industrial' and 'automotive' were common. Because I work on cars, I loaded up on the 'automotive' style. Bad choice; these seem to be almost extinct (HF doesn't seem to carry them anymore). The 'industrial' style is more common and available: http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-industrial-series-air-tool-uick-coupler-and-plug-set-68192.html Bob On 12/17/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:06 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > >> Something to consider when getting an air tank: >> >> http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18 > Air line fittings is what I'm doing today, going to decide on a standard and > buy a wheelbarrow full so I never have to wonder. > > What style do people like? Or is it mostly about accidentally stumbling on a > style and well that's what you use? > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Dec 17 08:19:53 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:19:53 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> <4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> Oops ... found these at HF online (the local store doesn't carry them): http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-14-x-38-automotive-series-coupler-and-plug-kit-68187.html On 12/17/2011 7:17 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > At one time, there were two or three styles of fitting, but 'industrial' and 'automotive' were common. Because I work > on cars, I loaded up on the 'automotive' style. Bad choice; these seem to be almost extinct (HF doesn't seem to carry > them anymore). The 'industrial' style is more common and available: > > http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-industrial-series-air-tool-uick-coupler-and-plug-set-68192.html > > Bob > > > On 12/17/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: >> On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:06 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >> >>> Something to consider when getting an air tank: >>> >>> http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18 >> Air line fittings is what I'm doing today, going to decide on a standard and >> buy a wheelbarrow full so I never have to wonder. >> >> What style do people like? Or is it mostly about accidentally stumbling on a >> style and well that's what you use? >> >> > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Dec 17 09:34:32 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 08:34:32 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> <4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4EECC498.3030206@comcast.net> While we're on the subject, anyone know why there's several types? Any advantages/disadvantages to either (I've used both and can't tell any difference)? Bob On 12/17/2011 7:19 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > Oops ... found these at HF online (the local store doesn't carry them): > > http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-14-x-38-automotive-series-coupler-and-plug-kit-68187.html > > > On 12/17/2011 7:17 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: >> At one time, there were two or three styles of fitting, but 'industrial' and 'automotive' were common. Because I >> work on cars, I loaded up on the 'automotive' style. Bad choice; these seem to be almost extinct (HF doesn't seem to >> carry them anymore). The 'industrial' style is more common and available: >> >> http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-industrial-series-air-tool-uick-coupler-and-plug-set-68192.html >> >> Bob >> >> >> On 12/17/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: >>> On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:06 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >>> >>>> Something to consider when getting an air tank: >>>> >>>> http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18 >>> Air line fittings is what I'm doing today, going to decide on a standard and >>> buy a wheelbarrow full so I never have to wonder. >>> >>> What style do people like? Or is it mostly about accidentally stumbling on a >>> style and well that's what you use? >>> >>> >> >> > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Dec 17 10:19:18 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:19:18 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <4EECC498.3030206@comcast.net> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com><4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com><95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org><4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> <4EECC498.3030206@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> > While we're on the subject, anyone know why there's several > types? Any advantages/disadvantages to either (I've used > both and can't tell any difference)? Partly just open market, I believe. Someone had a patent on a design, so someone else came up with a competing design. They used to be known by the company that invented (eg Milton, Schrader, etc). But there are some minor differences, for example with the "Tru-Flate" (aka automotive) ones you have to pull back the collar to make a connection. With the "industrial" ones, you can just force it together and it will push the collar back. My experience was that the industrial couplers would start leaking after a few years of service (and these were supposedly quality couplers, not from HF). So I switched to Tru-Flate and haven't had a problem since. YMMV Here's a nice comparison page: http://tinyurl.com/c66oqjb -- Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Sat Dec 17 11:52:31 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 12:52:31 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com><4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com><95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org><4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> <4EECC498.3030206@comcast.net> <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <000301ccbced$09b21ac0$1d165040$@ameritech.net> Wow - that McMaster-Carr page is a revelation- I've never actually encountered most of the push-in types they illustrate. Practically, it's always happened that when I get something that includes air couplers, they mate with my ancient Milton couplers. Still using the oldest ones, from the late 60's, never maintained a thing and never had a leak from one of them. The one on the end of my main air hose gets something coupled to it at least a few times a week for a tire or blasting, and when I'm actively working on something it might be dozens of times in a day. OTOH, the coupler in the middle of that same hose gets uncoupled less than once a year. No problems with it either. The couplers at the hangar are Chinese HF ones (physically interchangeable with the Miltons), less than 7 years old, and the HF females have occasionally leaked all along. And the Michelin-labeled HF air hose lasted a whole year of very infrequent use before checking deeply and showing the outer cord. I bet Michelin is glad they put their name on that stuff. I need a replacement hose out there but I have no idea where to find good hose now. My home-shop hose is 1970 Binks 3/8" hose, and when I wipe it down it still looks essentially new. Karl From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 17 14:30:52 2011 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 14:30:52 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com><4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com><95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org><4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> <4EECC498.3030206@comcast.net> <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4EED0A0C.3040200@bradakis.com> Regarding couplers I have been using the Milton "M" style for decades, no problems. When I was working at Bailey's I made a short adapter that would plug into his I style and let me plug in my M style tools. Back when I was homebrewing on a regular basis I saw some quick connect garden hose fittings, thought they would be handy for shuffling stuff around in the brewery. They worked well. Once I found out you couldn't disconnect them under pressure like air fittings. That was festive. mjb. From doug at dougbraun.com Sat Dec 17 16:08:58 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 18:08:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> <4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> <4EECC498.3030206@comcast.net> <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: That chart doesn't mention Milton. Are any of the ones on the chart the same as Milton, just with a different name? Doug On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Randall wrote: > Here's a nice comparison page: > http://tinyurl.com/c66oqjb From bk13 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 17 18:21:37 2011 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:21:37 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? - couplers - water In-Reply-To: <4EED0A0C.3040200@bradakis.com> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com><4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com><95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org><4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> <4EECC498.3030206@comcast.net> <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> <4EED0A0C.3040200@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4EED4021.5000808@earthlink.net> Mark - I also like the water quick disconnects. I put a shut off on the end of the hose before the coupler. Something like SKU 442559 or 573076 at http://www.homedepot.com The shutoff lets me change attachments at the end of the hose without going back to the valve. It also lets me turn down the pressure from the end of the hose. I can also roll up the hose under pressure without the nozzle dragging across the ground. Brian On 12/17/2011 1:30 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > Regarding couplers I have been using the Milton "M" style for > decades, no problems. When I was working at Bailey's I made > a short adapter that would plug into his I style and let me plug > in my M style tools. > > Back when I was homebrewing on a regular basis I saw some quick > connect garden hose fittings, thought they would be handy for shuffling > stuff around in the brewery. They worked well. Once I found out > you couldn't disconnect them under pressure like air fittings. > That was festive. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From eric at megageek.com Sat Dec 17 20:40:36 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 22:40:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <4EED0A0C.3040200@bradakis.com> Message-ID: I had both styles of connectors in my shop for a while. I have a home made adaptor to fix one to the other. When I recently plumbed my shop this past year(many of you might remember that saga) I found a connector at lowes that fits BOTH male types. I bought all they had and used them at all my access points. They aren't as good in my opinion for releasing tools (sometimes they are a pain to release) but tools go in easier and they do fit both types of connectors nicely. Check your local lowes. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Mark J Bradakis Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 12/17/2011 16:36 To 'shop-talk List' cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? Regarding couplers I have been using the Milton "M" style for decades, no problems. When I was working at Bailey's I made a short adapter that would plug into his I style and let me plug in my M style tools. Back when I was homebrewing on a regular basis I saw some quick connect garden hose fittings, thought they would be handy for shuffling stuff around in the brewery. They worked well. Once I found out you couldn't disconnect them under pressure like air fittings. That was festive. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From eric at megageek.com Sat Dec 17 20:42:18 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 22:42:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? - couplers - water In-Reply-To: <4EED4021.5000808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: The hose connectors I use (made by Lego!) have a ball valve that shuts off the water the instant it's disconnected. Very handy and cheap. They do break on occasion, but I keep a bunch of spares lying around. I've been very impressed that they never leak once connected. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Brian Kemp Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 12/17/2011 20:36 To Mark J Bradakis cc 'shop-talk List' Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? - couplers - water Mark - I also like the water quick disconnects. I put a shut off on the end of the hose before the coupler. Something like SKU 442559 or 573076 at http://www.homedepot.com The shutoff lets me change attachments at the end of the hose without going back to the valve. It also lets me turn down the pressure from the end of the hose. I can also roll up the hose under pressure without the nozzle dragging across the ground. Brian On 12/17/2011 1:30 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > Regarding couplers I have been using the Milton "M" style for > decades, no problems. When I was working at Bailey's I made > a short adapter that would plug into his I style and let me plug > in my M style tools. > > Back when I was homebrewing on a regular basis I saw some quick > connect garden hose fittings, thought they would be handy for shuffling > stuff around in the brewery. They worked well. Once I found out > you couldn't disconnect them under pressure like air fittings. > That was festive. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Dec 17 20:01:41 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:01:41 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> References: <20111216.152017.4926.0@webmail09.vgs.untd.com> <4EEC154A.3060605@bradakis.com> <95534CBB-C053-4063-AA03-6E820ECDD23E@groupwbench.org> <4EECB2A5.7080208@comcast.net> <4EECB319.8090607@comcast.net> <4EECC498.3030206@comcast.net> <000001ccbce0$02d79200$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: On Dec 17, 2011, at 11:19 AM, "Randall" wrote: >> While we're on the subject, anyone know why there's several >> types? Any advantages/disadvantages to either (I've used >> both and can't tell any difference)? > > Partly just open market, I believe. Someone had a patent on a design, so > someone else came up with a competing design. They used to be known by the > company that invented (eg Milton, Schrader, etc). > > But there are some minor differences, for example with the "Tru-Flate" (aka > automotive) ones you have to pull back the collar to make a connection. > With the "industrial" ones, you can just force it together and it will push > the collar From mark at bradakis.com Sat Dec 17 20:07:56 2011 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 20:07:56 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Another coupler comment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EED590C.4040000@bradakis.com> I should have mentioned that I actually have two incompatible styles of air line fittings. One style for all the tools and such that should have oil, one style for paint guns and such that should NOT have oil in them. mjb. From eric at megageek.com Sun Dec 18 07:07:11 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 09:07:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mufflers Message-ID: I asked this question before, but I think it got lost in the another discussion. I have a very good generator for back up power. The problem is that it is pretty loud. Can I remove the exhaust it came with, and mod up a nice exhaust into a small (or large) car muffler? Since this is only a 12HP B&S motor, we aren't talking tuned engines, so I'm guessing back pressure isn't critical. Any ideas? What would you do if you needed to quiet this system. Note, I don't need the portability of the unit, so if I had a BHE (Big Honking Exhaust) sticking out of the cage, that is fine. Thanks! Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From jdinnis at gmail.com Sun Dec 18 07:54:59 2011 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 08:54:59 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mufflers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: With a little detective work, you should be able to find a quieter exhaust system that will bolt right up to that motor. I would start with a local lawn and garden shop, take them the model and spec number off the motor and tell them what you want to do. Ask if they know of other generators that used the same series of engine, especially ones that went into RV's. You might also look at some of the slip on systems for ATV's and UTV's as these tend to be pretty quiet. As a last resort you might try a muffler off a gas powered golf cart. On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:07 AM, wrote: > I asked this question before, but I think it got lost in the another > discussion. > > I have a very good generator for back up power. The problem is that it is > pretty loud. > > Can I remove the exhaust it came with, and mod up a nice exhaust into a > small (or large) car muffler? Since this is only a 12HP B&S motor, we > aren't talking tuned engines, so I'm guessing back pressure isn't > critical. > > Any ideas? What would you do if you needed to quiet this system. > > Note, I don't need the portability of the unit, so if I had a BHE (Big > Honking Exhaust) sticking out of the cage, that is fine. > > Thanks! > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Sun Dec 18 08:41:29 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:41:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mufflers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EEE09A9.8030508@gmail.com> I've seen all sorts of mufflers fangled on to generators. Almost all of them looked like wither J.C. Whitney/Autozone/Harbor Freight jobs, or else re-cycled motorcycle exhausts. I don't know what they did to the performance of the generator motor, but the generator(s) continued to produce power and they were quiet(er). Just as much bang-for-the-buck is building an enclosure for it--the exhaust is a noise source, but so are the other moving parts. Even a cardboard box can work wonders, so putting some time and thought and actual materiel into the job (and a muffler) can make even the loudest generator very much quieter. Just remember to provision for air flow. On 12/18/2011 9:54 AM, John Innis wrote: > With a little detective work, you should be able to find a quieter exhaust > system that will bolt right up to that motor. I would start with a local > lawn and garden shop, take them the model and spec number off the motor and > tell them what you want to do. Ask if they know of other generators that > used the same series of engine, especially ones that went into RV's. You > might also look at some of the slip on systems for ATV's and UTV's as these > tend to be pretty quiet. As a last resort you might try a muffler off a > gas powered golf cart. > > On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:07 AM, wrote: > >> I asked this question before, but I think it got lost in the another >> discussion. >> >> I have a very good generator for back up power. The problem is that it is >> pretty loud. >> >> Can I remove the exhaust it came with, and mod up a nice exhaust into a >> small (or large) car muffler? Since this is only a 12HP B&S motor, we >> aren't talking tuned engines, so I'm guessing back pressure isn't >> critical. >> >> Any ideas? What would you do if you needed to quiet this system. >> >> Note, I don't need the portability of the unit, so if I had a BHE (Big >> Honking Exhaust) sticking out of the cage, that is fine. From brabel at comcast.net Sun Dec 18 09:35:44 2011 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 08:35:44 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mufflers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I remember seeing a diagram many years ago of a muffler on a farm generator. It was a 55 gallon drum, buried in the ground and filled with rocks. The outlet from the generator was plumbed into the drum, and a stack exited to a height of about five feet above the ground. Unfortunately, I don't remember whether the input or output was plumbed to the bottom of the drum. - Bill Rabel Anacortes WA On Dec 18, 2011, at 6:07 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > I asked this question before, but I think it got lost in the another > discussion. > > I have a very good generator for back up power. The problem is that it is > pretty loud. > > Can I remove the exhaust it came with, and mod up a nice exhaust into a > small (or large) car muffler? Since this is only a 12HP B&S motor, we > aren't talking tuned engines, so I'm guessing back pressure isn't > critical. > > Any ideas? What would you do if you needed to quiet this system. > > Note, I don't need the portability of the unit, so if I had a BHE (Big > Honking Exhaust) sticking out of the cage, that is fine. > > Thanks! > > Eric P From elans4 at cox.net Mon Dec 19 14:58:45 2011 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:58:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Portable air tanks? Message-ID: <004d01ccbe99$6113c0e0$233b42a0$@net> Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > Back when I was homebrewing on a regular basis I saw > some quick connect garden hose fittings, thought they > would be handy for shuffling stuff around in the > brewery. They worked well. Once I found out you > couldn't disconnect them under pressure like air > fittings. I use quick connect garden hose fittings on all my garden hoses and attachments. A couple of my female connectors have "cutoffs" that stop the flow of water when you disconnect from them. No problem with that, it's the re-coupling of fittings after that, as the water pressure tends to hold the coupler shut off very tight and makes it VERY difficult to plug into the coupler (many, many times harder than connecting an air hose fitting) - I figure it has to do with the square inches of the size of the passageway compared to an air hose. (Or maybe I'm just weak.) In any case, I use the small in-line quarter turn cut-off valves at the end of the hose as someone else mentioned. Tim Mullen From elans4 at cox.net Mon Dec 19 14:59:00 2011 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:59:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Portable air tanks? Message-ID: <004e01ccbe99$6a070360$3e150a20$@net> Jim Franklin wrote: > > Air line fittings is what I'm doing today, going to > decide on a standard and buy a wheelbarrow full so > I never have to wonder. > > What style do people like? Or is it mostly about > accidentally stumbling on a style and well that's > what you use? Many years ago I carefully picked out a "Style" of air line fitting based on flow rates, intention, etc. Unfortunately, after I moved, I could never find that fitting in the local stores, and when I did, they were about three times the cost of the "regular" ones. I finally decided to give up and just bought new fittings at the local Home Depot/Lowes. They usually have two sizes - the regular and the "industrial" (i.e. bigger diameter) sizes. I've never had a problem finding fittings anymore as they always have them, and they are rather cheap. They seem to be the standard, as many of the air tools that I have bought come with a male fitting, and they are the same type as I get at the Home Depot/Lowes stores. (Also the same as Harbor Freight, but their quality is up to snuff on the ones I've tried.) So, my advice is to forget the various styles and just get the smaller ones they have in the bins at Home Depot/Lowes - you can always get more later when you need them (I've been doing that for over 20 years). If you need to have a separate style for some reason (i.e. air tool oil lines .vs. non-oil lines) get the larger for the special case. (Me, I oil my tools with drops from a squeeze bottle and never have oil in the lines/hoses.) Oh yea, some fittings will flow more air than others, but the reality is that at the air pressures and flow rates we are talking about, the difference is unnoticeable. You would make a bigger difference by having a 50 foot air line instead of a 100 footer (and not much difference there either). Tim Mullen From elans4 at cox.net Mon Dec 19 14:59:14 2011 From: elans4 at cox.net (Mullen) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:59:14 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Portable air tanks? Message-ID: <004f01ccbe99$7282f300$5788d900$@net> shochschild at att.net wrote: > I would like to piggyback on this and ask if any of us have > added the hardware to an outdated propane tank to make an > air pig out of it?? I once turned an old Freon tank into an air tank. They even used to make a "kit" to do the conversion. Having done that, I'd say to forget it. They hold so little air, that an inexpensive air tank (mine's from Sears, but the ones from Harbor Freight are essentially the same) hold more air and are lighter. The cost of converting an existing tank would probably be close to the cost of a real air tank. For a bit more, you could buy an aluminum air tank that would be even lighter. I don't miss my converted Freon tank. Tim Mullen From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Dec 19 21:54:55 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:54:55 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Portable air tanks? In-Reply-To: <004f01ccbe99$7282f300$5788d900$@net> References: <004f01ccbe99$7282f300$5788d900$@net> Message-ID: <000e01ccbed3$84de2670$0201a8c0@randall> > I once turned an old Freon tank into an air tank. They even > used to make a > "kit" to do the conversion. > > Having done that, I'd say to forget it. I guess it depends on what you want/expect. I've been using a 50lb R22 bottle as an air tank since about 1977, and it still does what I need. I particularly like that I can fill it and close the valve, and have it still be full months later. Although it doesn't hold as much, it is probably half the weight of the air tank my Dad had. But I only use it for filling tires and such, when the flat is too far away to reach with an air hose. -- Randall From eric at megageek.com Tue Dec 20 08:31:56 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:31:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) Message-ID: I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that are cheap? Thanks! Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From tputland at charter.net Tue Dec 20 06:47:39 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:47:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) Message-ID: <5849609f.5e629.1345bba3d69.Webtop.45@charter.net> I have purchased two sets from tirerack.com--most recenlty last week. Since I end up not having to pay sales tax (they must not have a presence in WI) it is pretty much cheaper than going local. (with the exception of sam's club anyway. Tires are pretty damn cheap at sam's club but you are giving money to wallymart which I hate doing but that is anohter story.) This most recent set had a $50 mail in rebate so shipping is going to be covered by that. Another bonus. The first time I bought a set from them it was for my Datsun Roadster. When it came time to input, on the web page, the type vehicle the tyres were for, this type car was not an available option. I ended up having to go with a 70 240 Z since it was pretty much the closest option. Well, this must have put up a red flag of some sort since someonce called me the next day from that company to verify my order saying the size tyre I ordered was not commonly ordered for the 240Z. I was fairly impressed by that level of customer service. Both sets of tyres ended up at my house withing two business days as well so my wait was very short. This is obvioulsy based on the warehouse being fairly close to WI, but still nice to not have to wait for ever for them. Tim On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. > > Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online > that are cheap? > > Thanks! > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a > rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your > territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 06:50:47 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:50:47 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, wrote: > I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. > > Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that > are cheap? > There is the tirerack, of course. But it's really worth calling some local places. Margins on tires aren't that high, and lots of them are pretty competitive, and you might get someone to cut you a deal. How you mounting them if you buy them online? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tputland at charter.net Tue Dec 20 07:27:18 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:27:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) Message-ID: <4e8a49d9.5ed4d.1345bde8b4c.Webtop.45@charter.net> The mounting (and disposal) cost is what sways/ed me. I could have gotten a comparable set from a local(ish) place about a half hour away for about the same money but mounting etc was NOT included in the tire cost. I am getting this latest set for my wife's car mounted, balanced, old tires disposed of, and an allignment, locally--right in the little town I live in--for about $100. Your experience may differ. Tim On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 7:50 AM, David Scheidt wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, wrote: >> I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. >> >> Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online >> that >> are cheap? >> > > There is the tirerack, of course. But it's really worth calling some > local places. Margins on tires aren't that high, and lots of them are > pretty competitive, and you might get someone to cut you a deal. How > you mounting them if you buy them online? > > > -- > David Scheidt > dmscheidt at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Dec 20 07:38:53 2011 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:38:53 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005a01ccbf25$1a495350$4edbf9f0$@ameritech.net> I've found that Discount Tire (a national chain, part of Tire Kingdom and another group or two) is very competitive and has or can get most any tire I've ever asked for. No tune-ups, no oil changes, only tires. One advantage over Costco and Sam's is they stock or can quickly get a huge selection of brands, and they're really tire experts, as opposed to the typical installers at Sam's and Costco. I've found them particularly knowledgeable and honest about models and performance, though I doubt you can beat Tire Rack for consultation. They also match anyone's price (including Tire Rack after adding shipping), have a road-hazard warrantee and lifetime balancing, etc., just like most of the better places. I've bought my last 3 sets of tires from them. Excellent customer service too. I took my Stearman wheels and tires in to have them break the beads and switch the tires wheel to wheel. The tech pinched a tube, and they immediately offered to pay for the new tube even after I told them it cost over $100. I came back with a new tube 2 days later, they finished the job, paid me for the tube and shipping, and wouldn't let me pay anything for the tire service because of my inconvenience. Made me a loyal customer. Karl -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of eric at megageek.com Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 09:32 To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that are cheap? Thanks! Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/kvacek at ameritech.net From eric at megageek.com Tue Dec 20 09:54:26 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:54:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David writes... >Margins on tires aren't that high, and lots of them are >pretty competitive, and you might get someone to cut you a deal. I'm finding this out now. Seems that everywhere prices are pretty much the same. >How you mounting them if you buy them online? I custom fitted my HF tire changer to a movable mount about a year ago and I love any chance I get to use it! (I think I even posted it here.) Here is a link to my instructable about it... These aren't front tires, so I'm only planning on static balancing them. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson David Scheidt 12/20/2011 08:50 To eric at megageek.com cc shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM, wrote: > I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. > > Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that > are cheap? > There is the tirerack, of course. But it's really worth calling some local places. Margins on tires aren't that high, and lots of them are pretty competitive, and you might get someone to cut you a deal. How you mounting them if you buy them online? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Dec 20 08:04:10 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:04:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EF0A3EA.7090304@xxiii.com> On 12/20/2011 10:31 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. > Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that > are cheap? I can not say enough good stuff about Tire Rack, and have ordered probably over a dozen sets or pairs of tires from them in the last 20 years. OTOH, with a little haggling, you may be able to get a local place to price match, and I do like to keep my business local. Getting them mounted can be a pain. Some tire vendors are very adverse to mounting carry-ins. what I've found to work well is go on really slow days, like Tues or Thurs; they probably have guys they're p[aying by the hour standing around doing nothing, and at that point they're more than happy to take your money and mount & balance. Fridays and Saturdays are probably the most busy, and they're likely to tell you to piss off. -Wayne From mbarre at juno.com Tue Dec 20 08:21:03 2011 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:21:03 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] windshield repair DIY? Message-ID: <20111220.102103.13557.0@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> I have around 4 or 5 different bullseyes and small cracks between my cars and those of the kids. Does anyone have any experience with getting set up to do such repairs beyond the $10-15 kits at the FLAPS? I figure even if I spend $150 on the tools, resin and a UV lamp I will still be ahead and will have added another capability to the shop arsenal. TIA, Matt in Georgia From racertod at racertodd.com Tue Dec 20 08:55:50 2011 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:55:50 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20111220074516.00be0610@mail.avvanta.com> I've been a customer of Tire Rack since the mid-'80s, buying many street and race tires from them. As for the problem of shops not liking you bringing in tires bought online to mount, Tire Rack has a Recommended Installer Program. It works like this. You select on the website which of their installers you prefer to use. The tires are then shipped directly to that shop so you don't have to lug them around. You then call the shop, tell them you have a set of tires enroute to them from Tire Rack and make an appointment to have them installed. As part of the Recommended Installer program, the shop must list on the Tire Rack website their charges for installation and must stick to those charges. It really works great. I have mine shipped to a local shop that is very good, they do tons of work for local racers, hot rodders, etc. They're a sole proprietorship, not a huge chain so their employees are not 18-year-old, $10-an-hour hacks who just mount tires as fast as they can with no regard to quality of work (my biggest complaint with the large chains). Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 273,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 316,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Tue Dec 20 09:18:56 2011 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:18:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] windshield repair DIY? In-Reply-To: <20111220.102103.13557.0@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> References: <20111220.102103.13557.0@webmail02.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <005001ccbf33$14034e20$3c09ea60$@cablespeed.com> Some auto insurance policies provide for free crack repair by professionals. It is cheaper for them than having a hammer accidentally fall on your windshield. Check with your insurer. From marka at maracing.com Tue Dec 20 09:29:47 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:29:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, On Tue, 20 Dec 2011, eric at megageek.com wrote: > I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. > > Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that > are cheap? I've not seen an online place that sells real truck tires... Are you talking about 19.5 / 22.5 tires, or light duty truck tires? Light duty tires I'd buy from Tirerack. Their prices are inline with every other online vendor and they support racing. Mark From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Dec 20 09:48:20 2011 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:48:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20111220074516.00be0610@mail.avvanta.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20111220074516.00be0610@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <4EF0BC54.5090708@xxiii.com> On 12/20/2011 10:55 AM, Todd Walke wrote: > As for the problem of shops not liking you bringing in tires bought > online to mount, Tire Rack has a Recommended Installer Program. > It works like this. You select on the website which of their installers > you prefer to use. The tires are then shipped directly to that shop so > you don't have to lug them around. You then call the shop, tell them you I've looked at their recommended installers directory, and called some of them and the prices they quote are sky high. Like $20 - $40 per tire, which completely kills the pricing. OTOH, when I've just walked into some of the same places they're only $10 - $15 /per -Wayne From Jandkstone99 at msn.com Tue Dec 20 10:22:12 2011 From: Jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim and Kathy) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:12 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: <4EF0A3EA.7090304@xxiii.com> References: <4EF0A3EA.7090304@xxiii.com> Message-ID: I have had good experience with TireRack too, but also learned something important the first time I used them. I ordered the tires and then made an appointment with one of their listed installers to have the tires mounted locally. He told me the only reason he worked with TR was to get new customers and that he could generally beat their prices. After that, I would shop TR and then give him a call. There were some tires he couldn't touch (IIRC, TR sold Continental tires for my BMW for less than he could buy them), but he could almost always do better. Sent from my iPad On Dec 20, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Wayne wrote: > On 12/20/2011 10:31 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: >> I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. >> Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that >> are cheap? > > I can not say enough good stuff about Tire Rack, and have ordered probably over a dozen sets or pairs of tires from them in the last 20 years. OTOH, with a little haggling, you may be able to get a local place to price match, and I do like to keep my business local. > > Getting them mounted can be a pain. Some tire vendors are very adverse to mounting carry-ins. what I've found to work well is go on really slow days, like Tues or Thurs; they probably have guys they're p[aying by the hour standing around doing nothing, and at that point they're more than happy to take your money and mount & balance. Fridays and Saturdays are probably the most busy, and they're likely to tell you to piss off. > > -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From 57healey at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 10:35:42 2011 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:35:42 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: References: <4EF0A3EA.7090304@xxiii.com> Message-ID: I have had the same experience. Discount tire has always beat tire rack for me Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Jim and Kathy Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.netDate: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:12 To: Wayne Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) I have had good experience with TireRack too, but also learned something important the first time I used them. I ordered the tires and then made an appointment with one of their listed installers to have the tires mounted locally. He told me the only reason he worked with TR was to get new customers and that he could generally beat their prices. After that, I would shop TR and then give him a call. There were some tires he couldn't touch (IIRC, TR sold Continental tires for my BMW for less than he could buy them), but he could almost always do better. Sent from my iPad On Dec 20, 2011, at 9:04 AM, Wayne wrote: > On 12/20/2011 10:31 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: >> I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. >> Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that >> are cheap? > > I can not say enough good stuff about Tire Rack, and have ordered probably over a dozen sets or pairs of tires from them in the last 20 years. OTOH, with a little haggling, you may be able to get a local place to price match, and I do like to keep my business local. > > Getting them mounted can be a pain. Some tire vendors are very adverse to mounting carry-ins. what I've found to work well is go on really slow days, like Tues or Thurs; they probably have guys they're p[aying by the hour standing around doing nothing, and at that point they're more than happy to take your money and mount & balance. Fridays and Saturdays are probably the most busy, and they're likely to tell you to piss off. > > -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/57healey at gmail.com From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Tue Dec 20 10:55:46 2011 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:55:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: <20111220174714.8081A1878E8@autox.team.net> References: , <4EF0A3EA.7090304@xxiii.com>, , <20111220174714.8081A1878E8@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I've used Tire Rack over the years with no problems, but I tried out Discount Tire back in June when I needed new wheels to fit over my new (larger) brakes. Found what I wanted on their site way cheaper than anywhere else, but I bought one wheel, since I wanted to be sure it fit over my new brakes with enough caliper clearance. Once it worked out, I ordered 3 more. All of them were shipped using a Free shipping deal at the time. They *also* had a Web-only deal where if you bought 4 wheels they knocked off another $50 or something. Since I had ordered 1 wheel and then 3 more all over the web, I called them up and explained what I had done and could I get the Web only discount since I had essentially bought 4 wheels from them recently. They applied the discount to my web order no problem. All in all a great experience. They don't have the selection tire rack does on wheels and tires, but if they have what you want they are worth giving a try. -PJ > I have had the same experience. Discount tire has always beat tire rack for me > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From cavanadd at frontier.com Tue Dec 20 11:33:16 2011 From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:33:16 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20111220074516.00be0610@mail.avvanta.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20111220074516.00be0610@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <4EF0D4EC.2040606@frontier.com> Todd Walke wrote: > They're a sole proprietorship, not a huge chain so their employees are > not 18-year-old, $10-an-hour hacks who just mount tires as fast as they > can with no regard to quality of work (my biggest complaint with the > large chains). And speaking of which, and totally off topic... As Todd and the other PNW members know, Les Schwab is a chain in the Northwest, Oregon, Washington, Idaho and Montana mostly. It's owned by the Schwab family, and the stores are a mix of franchises and company owned stores. The upside is they hire local high school kids, teach them to hustle, make them shave and cut their hair, and they generally have pretty decent prices on tires. They also fix flats for free, forever. Because I'm lazy I buy most of my tires from them, except for a set of Jeep tires a few years ago I got through Discount. But each store can be different. My wife got a slow leak in one of her Subaru Forester tires and took it to the closest Schwab. They immediately told her it was in the sidewall and couldn't be fixed, and they had to sell her a whole new set of tires (AWD, ya know....). BS. She took it to the second closest store, and they didn't bat an eye, just took it off, patched it and sent her on her way...for nothing...and this was on the OEM tires. So it does pay to shop around. From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Tue Dec 20 12:49:04 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:49:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20111220194904.0WY13.65271.root@cdptpa-web34-z02.mail.rr.com> I have shopped TR but never bought tires from them, partly because all of their listed installers in our area appear to be a bit odd. I had a Bridgestone/Firestone dealer near me and I never went there because at the time I didn't want to buy Bridgestone/Firestone. I did go there for tire repairs and Interstate batteries, and one day they told me that they could get any tire brand I wanted. The next time I wanted tires I asked them for a quote and they were competitive with TR so I bought tires there ever since. Ironically after doing research I realized that Bridgestone does make some good tires and some of their performance tires are a good value compared to other brands. Unfortunately that store got wiped out by a freeway expansion so I had to go to Discount Tire for my last tires. I have noticed that Discount Tire seems to have a lot of tire models that aren't on TR so it is hard to comparison shop there. > I have had good experience with TireRack too, but also learned something > important the first time I used them. I ordered the tires and then made an > appointment with one of their listed installers to have the tires mounted > locally. He told me the only reason he worked with TR was to get new > customers and that he could generally beat their prices. After that, I would > shop TR and then give him a call. From mg_garage at comcast.net Tue Dec 20 12:57:52 2011 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:57:52 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: <005a01ccbf25$1a495350$4edbf9f0$@ameritech.net> References: <005a01ccbf25$1a495350$4edbf9f0$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to call them experts. I've gotten 3 sets of tyres from Discount for my A6 and one set for my MGA. The A6 always had at least one with a slow leak, except for the OEM. The last set I got, I requested that they clean the bead area on the wheels as that is where my leak was coming from. I watched the 'installer' skip the first one and so went and told the write-up guy. The installer dismounted the first one and cleaned it, kinda, then the other three. Still, they leaked. I kept track of the amount of leakage for 2 weeks and then went back with my findings. After explaining, and showing the guy my record of tyre checks, he simply said my (snap-on bluepoint) tyre gauge was off and to use one of theirs (and he gave me one). Although I failed to understand how a different gauge would prevent a tyre from losing air, I complied. Two more weeks and more records and I finally got a guy who understood, and they dismounted all four and once again cleaned the bead area on the wheel. That was about 2 months ago and I've not lost a pound in any of my tyres since. Having said that, discount is quick and inexpensive and I can usually get 6 months same as cash with their credit card. Gordie -------------------------------------------------- From: "Karl Vacek" Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:38 AM To: ; Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) > I've found that Discount Tire (a national chain, part of Tire Kingdom and > another group or two) is very competitive and has or can get most any tire > I've ever asked for. No tune-ups, no oil changes, only tires. > > One advantage over Costco and Sam's is they stock or can quickly get a > huge > selection of brands, and they're really tire experts, as opposed to the > typical installers at Sam's and Costco. I've found them particularly > knowledgeable and honest about models and performance, though I doubt you > can beat Tire Rack for consultation. They also match anyone's price > (including Tire Rack after adding shipping), have a road-hazard warrantee > and lifetime balancing, etc., just like most of the better places. I've > bought my last 3 sets of tires from them. > > Excellent customer service too. I took my Stearman wheels and tires in to > have them break the beads and switch the tires wheel to wheel. The tech > pinched a tube, and they immediately offered to pay for the new tube even > after I told them it cost over $100. I came back with a new tube 2 days > later, they finished the job, paid me for the tube and shipping, and > wouldn't let me pay anything for the tire service because of my > inconvenience. Made me a loyal customer. > > Karl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of eric at megageek.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 09:32 > To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) > > I needed to buy a bunch of truck tires for different vehicles. > > Does anyone have any recommendations for places to buy them online that > are > cheap? > > Thanks! > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo > Emerson _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/kvacek at ameritech.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mg_garage at comcast.net From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Dec 20 16:26:50 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:26:50 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate Message-ID: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> Hi guys and MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL ON SHOP-TALK !!!!! I'm in the fabrication stage of an engine run in stand... stand is built... "dashboard" is being fabricated... holes are drilled for tach, water temp, oil pressure, starter button and on/off switch... I need to mount a throttle control/cable and want to use an existing small engine throttle cable assembly with the throttle bracket bolted under the dashboard and the throttle lever extending up through the dashboard. I need to find a way to make a nice clean slot in 3/16" aluminum plate...approx 1/8" wide and 2 to 3" long. guess I could drill a 1/8" pilot hole and file the slot but that's a lot of filing... give me some ideas on a way that includes some precision and cosmetically pleasing... guess I could do it with a cutoff wheel and dress it with a file or a dremel tool... but it would eat/gum up some little cutting wheels... suggestions ??? thanks John I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 16:47:26 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:47:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: References: <005a01ccbf25$1a495350$4edbf9f0$@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:57 PM, gordies garage wrote: > I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to call them experts They sold me a set of tires that were the incorrect size, and lied about it. Wrote the wrong thing on the invoice, even. I didn't notice until a week or two later, when I was on the highway and noticed the speed indicated to keep up with traffic was higher than I'd expect. Went back, complained got told 'we'd never do something like that, why don't you go f* off and die.' The corporate people used less profanity, but told me I was a liar. (Where the heck am I going to get new tires the wrong size but the correct model, and why bother?) My credit card company was a lot more sympathetic about it.... Needless to say, I'm never going back. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From ejrussell at mebtel.net Tue Dec 20 17:06:41 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:06:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate In-Reply-To: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> References: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: <8B3044D6B1E9415C8D1191B6F098BF50@EricJRussellPC> Aluminum can be cut with woodworking tools. Do you have a table saw? Clamp the aluminum to a table saw and raise the blade up to cut the slot. A carbide blade makes a kerf ~ 1/8" wide but it'd have sharp ends that'd be undercut. A little filing on the ends could take care of that. Do you have a biscuit joiner? Clamp a guide to the aluminum panel to keep the slot straight and plunge the biscuit joiner's blade to make the slot. Do you have a router? Use a carbide bit to mill out the slot. Use a straight edge to guide the router base. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > I need to find a way to make a nice clean slot in 3/16" aluminum > plate...approx 1/8" wide and 2 to 3" long. From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Dec 20 18:59:41 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:59:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate In-Reply-To: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> References: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Dec 2011, John Niolon wrote: > suggestions ??? The cleanest fastest way will be to use your router. For 3/16ths, I might make two passes. It'll be loud as hell, but it'll leave a nice smooth finish. Alternately, a plasma cutter would do the job, but the cut won't be as clean. I'm assuming you haven't got one, since if you did, you'd have realized this is a nice excuse to use it. Once you get one, you want to use it to cut everything, even though it's often not the best choice. -- David Hillman From eltonclark at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 19:01:42 2011 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:01:42 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate In-Reply-To: <8B3044D6B1E9415C8D1191B6F098BF50@EricJRussellPC> References: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> <8B3044D6B1E9415C8D1191B6F098BF50@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: *I'll vouch for the router method; I used a carbide bit in a router table* *to make a carburetor adaptor and it* *was a piece of cake.* > Do you have a router? Use a carbide bit to mill out the slot. Use a > straight edge to guide the router base. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~**ejrussell > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> I need to find a way to make a nice clean slot in 3/16" aluminum >> plate...approx 1/8" wide and 2 to 3" long. >> > ______________________________**_________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/** > options/shop-talk/eltonclark@**gmail.com From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Dec 20 22:15:16 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:15:16 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: <4EF0BC54.5090708@xxiii.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20111220074516.00be0610@mail.avvanta.com> <4EF0BC54.5090708@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <00e101ccbf9f$86c3dcb0$0201a8c0@randall> > OTOH, when I've just walked into some of the same places they're only > $10 - $15 /per Which is the trick, IMO. Get a price first, then bring them the tires. I frequently buy from TR, and I never go to one of their listed installers. -- Randall From tputland at charter.net Wed Dec 21 05:10:43 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:10:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) Message-ID: Several tire sellers were metnioned in this string. To which one do you refer? Tim On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:47 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:57 PM, gordies garage > wrote: >> I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to call them experts > > They sold me a set of tires that were the incorrect size, and lied > about it. Wrote the wrong thing on the invoice, even. I didn't > notice until a week or two later, when I was on the highway and > noticed the speed indicated to keep up with traffic was higher than > I'd expect. Went back, complained got told 'we'd never do something > like that, why don't you go f* off and die.' The corporate people > used less profanity, but told me I was a liar. (Where the heck am I > going to get new tires the wrong size but the correct model, and why > bother?) My credit card company was a lot more sympathetic about > it.... Needless to say, I'm never going back. > > > -- > David Scheidt > dmscheidt at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From tputland at charter.net Wed Dec 21 05:15:05 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:15:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate Message-ID: <3b649853.6a550.134608bdad7.Webtop.49@charter.net> Where are you located? I might want to "rent" your run in stand once ready. !! Tim Southern WI here. No snow for Christmas only fog and drizzle today with high in the low to mid 40s?!? WTF?!?! On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:26 PM, John Niolon wrote: > Hi guys and MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL ON SHOP-TALK !!!!! > > I'm in the fabrication stage of an engine run in stand... stand is > built... > "dashboard" is being fabricated... holes are drilled for tach, water > temp, > oil pressure, starter button and on/off switch... I need to mount a > throttle > control/cable and want to use an existing small engine throttle cable > assembly > with the throttle bracket bolted under the dashboard and the throttle > lever > extending up through the dashboard. > > I need to find a way to make a nice clean slot in 3/16" aluminum > plate...approx 1/8" wide and 2 to 3" long. guess I could drill a 1/8" > pilot > hole and file the slot but that's a lot of filing... give me some > ideas on a > way that includes some precision and cosmetically pleasing... > > guess I could do it with a cutoff wheel and dress it with a file or a > dremel > tool... but it would eat/gum up some little cutting wheels... > > suggestions ??? > > thanks > John > > > > > > I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From jniolon at bham.rr.com Wed Dec 21 05:19:32 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 06:19:32 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate In-Reply-To: <3b649853.6a550.134608bdad7.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <3b649853.6a550.134608bdad7.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: Tim... the delivery charge is gonna kill you ! I'm in Hueytown, Alabama... 'bout 12 miles SW of Birmingham. Right now it's a one engine design... strictly for a Ford BB 460. But maybe one day I'll make it a universal design or maybe someone that borrows it will, that would be even better. I've got the design plans for universal... just wanted something quick and easy. I don't see this as a repeat tool in my shop. I'm 64 and don't plan on the engine building as a sideline ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: "John Niolon" Cc: "shop-talk" Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 6:15 AM Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate > Where are you located? I might want to "rent" your run in stand once > ready. !! > > Tim > Southern WI here. > No snow for Christmas only fog and drizzle today with high in the low to > mid 40s?!? WTF?!?! > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:26 PM, John Niolon wrote: > >> Hi guys and MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL ON SHOP-TALK !!!!! >> >> I'm in the fabrication stage of an engine run in stand... stand is >> built... >> "dashboard" is being fabricated... holes are drilled for tach, water >> temp, >> oil pressure, starter button and on/off switch... I need to mount a >> throttle >> control/cable and want to use an existing small engine throttle cable >> assembly >> with the throttle bracket bolted under the dashboard and the throttle >> lever >> extending up through the dashboard. >> >> I need to find a way to make a nice clean slot in 3/16" aluminum >> plate...approx 1/8" wide and 2 to 3" long. guess I could drill a 1/8" >> pilot >> hole and file the slot but that's a lot of filing... give me some ideas >> on a >> way that includes some precision and cosmetically pleasing... >> >> guess I could do it with a cutoff wheel and dress it with a file or a >> dremel >> tool... but it would eat/gum up some little cutting wheels... >> >> suggestions ??? >> >> thanks >> John >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4093 - Release Date: 12/20/11 From tputland at charter.net Wed Dec 21 05:26:53 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:26:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate Message-ID: <53d46e54.6a617.1346096a75b.Webtop.49@charter.net> Oh well, worth a shot! Good luck!! On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 6:19 AM, john niolon wrote: > Tim... the delivery charge is gonna kill you ! I'm in Hueytown, > Alabama... 'bout 12 miles SW of Birmingham. Right now it's a one > engine design... strictly for a Ford BB 460. But maybe one day I'll > make it a universal design or maybe someone that borrows it will, that > would be even better. I've got the design plans for universal... just > wanted something quick and easy. I don't see this as a repeat tool in > my shop. I'm 64 and don't plan on the engine building as a sideline ! > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" > To: "John Niolon" > Cc: "shop-talk" > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 6:15 AM > Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate > > >> Where are you located? I might want to "rent" your run in stand once >> ready. !! >> >> Tim >> Southern WI here. >> No snow for Christmas only fog and drizzle today with high in the low >> to mid 40s?!? WTF?!?! >> >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:26 PM, John Niolon wrote: >> >>> Hi guys and MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL ON SHOP-TALK !!!!! >>> >>> I'm in the fabrication stage of an engine run in stand... stand is >>> built... >>> "dashboard" is being fabricated... holes are drilled for tach, >>> water temp, >>> oil pressure, starter button and on/off switch... I need to mount a >>> throttle >>> control/cable and want to use an existing small engine throttle >>> cable assembly >>> with the throttle bracket bolted under the dashboard and the >>> throttle lever >>> extending up through the dashboard. >>> >>> I need to find a way to make a nice clean slot in 3/16" aluminum >>> plate...approx 1/8" wide and 2 to 3" long. guess I could drill a >>> 1/8" pilot >>> hole and file the slot but that's a lot of filing... give me some >>> ideas on a >>> way that includes some precision and cosmetically pleasing... >>> >>> guess I could do it with a cutoff wheel and dress it with a file or >>> a dremel >>> tool... but it would eat/gum up some little cutting wheels... >>> >>> suggestions ??? >>> >>> thanks >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm sarcastic... what's your superpower ? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4093 - Release Date: >> 12/20/11 From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Wed Dec 21 05:27:25 2011 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:27:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate In-Reply-To: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> References: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: <000d01ccbfdb$e6c38ca0$b44aa5e0$@cablespeed.com> This is the excuse you need for buying a nice used Bridgeport......;-) From jniolon at bham.rr.com Wed Dec 21 05:42:08 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 06:42:08 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate In-Reply-To: <000d01ccbfdb$e6c38ca0$b44aa5e0$@cablespeed.com> References: <01D6D0C3142040B1B45EFDFF4B23375D@john5043a2d406> <000d01ccbfdb$e6c38ca0$b44aa5e0$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: Gerald, if you could see my small shop... I couldn't get a Bridgeport in the shop unassembled and stuffed in the little available space... much less assembled. I'm literally stepping over 'stuff' to get to other stuff. It's 24x24 and right now has a '53 ford truck in some stage of assembly, a Cub Cadet lawn tractor being repaired, 3 welders, a plasma cutter, a 50s era gas pump (disassembled) a pressure washer, two shop vacs, a 36x36 rolling shop fan, 4 tool boxes, 16' of work bench, two rolling work tables, one wall of shelves holding misc crap and every inch of wall space covered with important 'stuff', all the misc tools that won't fit in the toolboxes, two floor jacks, 4 jack stands... ped grinder, drill press, hyd press. a 5 drawer file cabinet, 3 sets of floor to ceiling drawer sets (bolts, nuts and hardware). There is a nice aluminum radiator and a set of Sanderson headers hanging from the ceiling... oh, and a 50Kbtu ceiling hung gas heater. It's getting a little cluttered ! And everything is covered with a 1/16" of fiberglass dust from the truck project... I'd love a lathe and a Bridgeport and a vertical bandsaw and all the tooling... and a 100x300 building to put them in... wait, that might not be big enough. I remember when I built this house/shop and stood in the empty finished shop and realized... dang, it's not big enough. It was a sad feeling :-( john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Brazil" To: "'John Niolon'" ; "'shop-talk'" Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 6:27 AM Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] making a slot in aluminum plate > This is the excuse you need for buying a nice used Bridgeport......;-) > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4093 - Release Date: 12/20/11 From fishplate at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 05:50:54 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:50:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Big Enough (was: making a slot in aluminum plate) Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 7:42 AM, john niolon wrote: > I remember when I built this house/shop and stood in the empty finished shop > and realized... dang, it's not big enough. It was a sad feeling :-( I built mine 24x 26, and have had 3 LBCs and two Volkswagen Busses in it, plus all the tools. But there wasn't room for me then. The county wouldn't let me build bigger, so I've wised up and sold the VWs. After the last one is gone, I may have room to work! Of course, I've added another parts car, too... No, I don't believe I could possibly build a shop that was "big enough", though... Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From tputland at charter.net Wed Dec 21 06:47:40 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:47:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start Message-ID: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> Sorry for the OT here but I cannot afford to have this car towed to the mechanic for diagnosis. I hope to deal with this one myself..... 92 Ford Tempo, less than 65K miles--legitimate miles as it only had 51K on it when we got it and had the original plug wires dated 1992 when we got the car. It was a true little old lady car. It has run decent since being given to us by my wife's dad for my daughters's use several years ago. Car has not really been driven much since my youngest went to college this past fall. Battery is fully charged right now with battery tender use and fuel stable put in tank a couple months ago. I tried to start the car yesterday (approx 35 degrees at the time) and it was acting like the battery was down on charge: barely turning over. I hooked up my battery charger, put it on the "start" setting and tried again. I basically got the same result with only slightly faster turn over speed. The starter has always sounded good and the car has always started since we got it. We have had very little cold weather so far this season with temp in the 30s and 40s during the day and only a couple nights below 20 degrees. I am going to get some starting fluid in hopes it might be enough to kick it going with the slow starter speed but am not hopeful. Any thoughts? Thanks all!!! tim From jdinnis at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 06:52:06 2011 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:52:06 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: Sounds like a bad battery. Try jumping it with a good set of heavy gauge jumper cables from a running car. I have found most battery chargers on "start assist" mode are ok if the battery is just a bit low, but they won't compensate for a really shot battery. On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Tim wrote: > Sorry for the OT here but I cannot afford to have this car towed to the > mechanic for diagnosis. I hope to deal with this one myself..... > > 92 Ford Tempo, less than 65K miles--legitimate miles as it only had 51K > on it when we got it and had the original plug wires dated 1992 when we > got the car. It was a true little old lady car. It has run decent since > being given to us by my wife's dad for my daughters's use several years > ago. Car has not really been driven much since my youngest went to > college this past fall. > > Battery is fully charged right now with battery tender use and fuel > stable put in tank a couple months ago. I tried to start the car > yesterday (approx 35 degrees at the time) and it was acting like the > battery was down on charge: barely turning over. I hooked up my battery > charger, put it on the "start" setting and tried again. I basically got > the same result with only slightly faster turn over speed. The starter > has always sounded good and the car has always started since we got it. > > We have had very little cold weather so far this season with temp in the > 30s and 40s during the day and only a couple nights below 20 degrees. > > I am going to get some starting fluid in hopes it might be enough to > kick it going with the slow starter speed but am not hopeful. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks all!!! > > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From pj_thomas at comcast.net Wed Dec 21 07:09:13 2011 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:09:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <4EF1E889.9050508@comcast.net> On 12/21/2011 8:47 AM, Tim wrote: > Sorry for the OT here but I cannot afford to have this car towed to the > mechanic for diagnosis. I hope to deal with this one myself..... > > 92 Ford Tempo, less than 65K miles--legitimate miles as it only had 51K > on it when we got it and had the original plug wires dated 1992 when we > got the car. It was a true little old lady car. It has run decent since > being given to us by my wife's dad for my daughters's use several years > ago. Car has not really been driven much since my youngest went to > college this past fall. > > Battery is fully charged right now with battery tender use and fuel > stable put in tank a couple months ago. I tried to start the car > yesterday (approx 35 degrees at the time) and it was acting like the > battery was down on charge: barely turning over. I hooked up my battery > charger, put it on the "start" setting and tried again. I basically got > the same result with only slightly faster turn over speed. The starter > has always sounded good and the car has always started since we got it. > Car that old may have an old battery; they don't last forever. Added, the tender may have overcharged it. Quick test, disconnect the positive terminal and try to jump it using a running car with a good battery. If it starts with the cars battery disconnected, but not with the battery connected, then its the battery is bad. Trying to jump with a bad battery, the battery can sometimes draw current taking it away from the starter. Also, I've never been able to start a car immediately off of my 50 amp charger. I usually have to let the battery build up a charge for a few minutes then the car will start using the charger. Peter T. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Wed Dec 21 07:22:53 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:22:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <0AB9FC66C7A74D4786914043EFC52225@EricJRussellPC> First thing I would do is clean all electrical connections in the battery to starter circuit. A bad connection (or more likely a number of slightly bad connections) can cause the symptoms you describe. When you connect the battery charger on 'start' mode you are still depending on some those electrical connections. The battery cables are usually most suspect but do them all - the ground cable's connection to the chassis, the ground strap between the block & the chassis & the positive cable's connection at the starter motor (do that one with the battery disconnected!). Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > I tried to start the car yesterday (approx 35 degrees at the time) and it > was acting like the battery was down on charge: barely turning over. I > hooked up my battery charger, put it on the "start" setting and tried > again. I basically got the same result with only slightly faster turn over > speed. The starter has always sounded good and the car has always started > since we got it. From jniolon at bham.rr.com Wed Dec 21 07:23:45 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:23:45 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <673CE63479D74AFD9F0374319547F05E@OwnerPC> I'm thinking bad battery.... I've seen several instances where a dead or even very low battery doesn't have enough capacity to get the computer and electronic ignition working.... try a hot battery or jump it from a strong battery in a running vehicle... then head to Wallmart and get a new battery john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 7:47 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start > Sorry for the OT here but I cannot afford to have this car towed to the > mechanic for diagnosis. I hope to deal with this one myself..... > > 92 Ford Tempo, less than 65K miles--legitimate miles as it only had 51K > on it when we got it and had the original plug wires dated 1992 when we > got the car. It was a true little old lady car. It has run decent since > being given to us by my wife's dad for my daughters's use several years > ago. Car has not really been driven much since my youngest went to > college this past fall. > > Battery is fully charged right now with battery tender use and fuel > stable put in tank a couple months ago. I tried to start the car > yesterday (approx 35 degrees at the time) and it was acting like the > battery was down on charge: barely turning over. I hooked up my battery > charger, put it on the "start" setting and tried again. I basically got > the same result with only slightly faster turn over speed. The starter > has always sounded good and the car has always started since we got it. > > We have had very little cold weather so far this season with temp in the > 30s and 40s during the day and only a couple nights below 20 degrees. > > I am going to get some starting fluid in hopes it might be enough to > kick it going with the slow starter speed but am not hopeful. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks all!!! > > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4093 - Release Date: 12/20/11 From jblair1948 at cox.net Wed Dec 21 07:39:40 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20111221093454.04da48b0@cox.net> At 08:47 AM 12/21/2011, Tim wrote: >92 Ford Tempo, less than 65K miles--legitimate miles as it only had 51K on it when we got it and had the >original plug wires dated 1992 when we got the car. It was a true little old lady car..... >I tried to start the car yesterday (approx 35 degrees at the time) and it was acting like the battery was down >on charge: barely turning over. I hooked up my battery charger, put it on the "start" setting and tried again. I >basically got the same result with only slightly faster turn over speed. The starter has always sounded good >and the car has always started since we got it. I agree with the others, and old dying battery. BUT, also check the battery cables for tightness and cleanleness at both ends of the cable - the battery, and the block (ground) and starter solenoid. When checking the cable connections, *** be sure to disconnect the negative terminal from the battery before trying to clean or putting a wrench on any of the connectors. *** John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction From bk13 at earthlink.net Wed Dec 21 07:53:38 2011 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 06:53:38 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <4EF1F2F2.6000503@earthlink.net> Tim - I go along the thinking the battery may be done. Have you checked the battery water level if it isn't sealed? If you can see the top of the plates, it is likely done. Jiggle all the battery connections to make sure nothing is loose. Measure the voltage of the battery without the tender connected. Wait a few hours without any charging/ starting activity and measure again. If it is much below 12 volts, it is probably gone. Look at the date stamp on the battery as well. If it is past 3-4 years and a cheap battery, consider it done. Once an old battery gets way down there or when battery starts to go, it is likely to go fast. Bottom line: It this is for your daughter's use over the holidays, the cost of replacement is small compared to leaving her stranded in the cold trying to get a jump from a stranger and you are going to have to replace it anyway. Go for the piece of mind. I get all my batteries at Costco if that is an option for you. To put this on a recent thread, they are in the tire center out in Los Angeles Costco stores. Brian On 12/21/2011 5:47 AM, Tim wrote: > Sorry for the OT here but I cannot afford to have this car towed to the > mechanic for diagnosis. I hope to deal with this one myself..... > > 92 Ford Tempo, less than 65K miles--legitimate miles as it only had 51K > on it when we got it and had the original plug wires dated 1992 when we > got the car. It was a true little old lady car. It has run decent since > being given to us by my wife's dad for my daughters's use several years > ago. Car has not really been driven much since my youngest went to > college this past fall. > > Battery is fully charged right now with battery tender use and fuel > stable put in tank a couple months ago. I tried to start the car > yesterday (approx 35 degrees at the time) and it was acting like the > battery was down on charge: barely turning over. I hooked up my battery > charger, put it on the "start" setting and tried again. I basically got > the same result with only slightly faster turn over speed. The starter > has always sounded good and the car has always started since we got it. > > We have had very little cold weather so far this season with temp in the > 30s and 40s during the day and only a couple nights below 20 degrees. > > I am going to get some starting fluid in hopes it might be enough to > kick it going with the slow starter speed but am not hopeful. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks all!!! > > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Wed Dec 21 08:26:51 2011 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:26:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> References: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> Message-ID: <002501ccbff4$f7b4f9e0$e71eeda0$@cablespeed.com> I now avoid gas stabilizers like the plague! They have caused more gum up than just leaving gas in it. On my lawn equipment I put a cutoff in the fuel line and always run them dry. From strovato at optonline.net Wed Dec 21 08:52:08 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:52:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <002501ccbff4$f7b4f9e0$e71eeda0$@cablespeed.com> References: <36aaedd8.6afab.13460e09fa5.Webtop.49@charter.net> <002501ccbff4$f7b4f9e0$e71eeda0$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: <0LWK00E4M9FNZRG0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I can't agree with that. The big problem has been the alcohol in the fuel. This has been a constant battle for boaters. There are now stabilizers specifically designed for fuel containing alcohol. I have no problem with your strategy of running small engines dry. Stabilizers do not guarantee that the fuel will last forever. But I doubt you can show a worse outcome using a stabilizer than plain untreated gas. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 10:26 AM 12/21/2011, Gerald Brazil wrote: >I now avoid gas stabilizers like the plague! They have caused more gum up >than just leaving gas in it. On my lawn equipment I put a cutoff in the fuel >line and always run them dry. From bspidell at comcast.net Wed Dec 21 09:09:16 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 16:09:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing Gasoline; was: Re: OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <002501ccbff4$f7b4f9e0$e71eeda0$@cablespeed.com> Message-ID: <283912386.1371521.1324483756141.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> FWIW, I've been running a long-term, informal 'experiment' with my lawnmower gas can. I have a small lawn and a 2-gal can; the same gas can sit in the can for a year or more. The inside of the can appears to be just shiny sheet steel, though it may have some sort of transparent coating. The can is about 15 years old, and there isn't a spot of rust nor any sort of gum or residue inside (and this with whatever passes for gasoline in California these days). The lawnmower always starts easily and runs fine (yes, I know lawnmowers don't expect much in the way of fuel, but still ...). I have some education/training in chemistry, but have never understood how an organic compound like gasoline--or an inorganic compound, for that matter--can be 'stabilized.' The only thing that seems rational to me is gasoline is a volatile organic compound; some components will vaporize more easily than others and change the composition of the fuel. Moral of the story: store gas in a sealed (can) or nearly sealed (tank) in moderate temperatures. Anything that purports to 'stabilize' gasoline would have to modify its chemical makeup, and possibly its vapor pressure. Not a good idea in general. I have a sneaky feeling the makers of fuel 'stabilizers'--like the makers of oil additives--have a nice scam going; if the gas is actually serviceable for a year or more, and people put the 'stabilizer' in to 'preserve' the fuel for a winter layover, they credit the 'stabilizer.' If the engine won't start after some down time, they blame something else. It's a known phenomenon that it makes people feel good to dump something in the gas tank or the crankcase; the additives business has been quite profitable for a long time. Must drive the people that formulate gasoline and oil crazy. This is just an observation, a single data point. YMMV . Holiday wishes to everyone. Bob -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Brazil" To: "Tim" , shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 7:26:51 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] OT--car won't start I now avoid gas stabilizers like the plague! They have caused more gum up than just leaving gas in it. On my lawn equipment I put a cutoff in the fuel line and always run them dry. _______________________________________________ From fishplate at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 09:59:42 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 11:59:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing Gasoline; was: Re: OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <283912386.1371521.1324483756141.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <002501ccbff4$f7b4f9e0$e71eeda0$@cablespeed.com> <283912386.1371521.1324483756141.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > I have some education/training in chemistry, but have never understood how an organic compound like gasoline--or an inorganic compound, for that matter--can be 'stabilized.' My completely uninformed thoughts on the matter are that they contain something to disperse water, and an oily substance that is immiscible in gasoline and also less dense, sealing the lighter fractions in the gas. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Dec 21 10:30:01 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:30:01 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing Gasoline; was: Re: OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <283912386.1371521.1324483756141.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <002501ccbff4$f7b4f9e0$e71eeda0$@cablespeed.com> <283912386.1371521.1324483756141.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <014101ccc006$2bab11b0$0201a8c0@randall> > I have a sneaky feeling the makers of fuel > 'stabilizers'--like the makers of oil additives--have a nice > scam going; if the gas is actually serviceable for a year or > more, One important difference, I believe, is that your can is effectively sealed. As soon as the vapors reach equilibrium with the fuel, it both stops evaporating, and stops absorbing moisture from the air. Most modern cars are sealed as well, but many older ones (as well as tractors, boat motors, lawnmowers, etc.) are not. -- Randall From mg_garage at comcast.net Wed Dec 21 12:00:31 2011 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 14:00:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F4BEDD7607949DDAB16C2FA0E0978F5@stargate> We were discussing experiences with Discount Tire. Gordie > Several tire sellers were metnioned in this string. To which one do you > refer? > Tim > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:47 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:57 PM, gordies garage >> wrote: >>> I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to call them experts >> >> They sold me a set of tires that were the incorrect size, and lied >> about it. Wrote the wrong thing on the invoice, even. I didn't >> notice until a week or two later, when I was on the highway and >> noticed the speed indicated to keep up with traffic was higher than >> I'd expect. Went back, complained got told 'we'd never do something >> like that, why don't you go f* off and die.' The corporate people >> used less profanity, but told me I was a liar. (Where the heck am I >> going to get new tires the wrong size but the correct model, and why >> bother?) My credit card company was a lot more sympathetic about >> it.... Needless to say, I'm never going back. >> >> >> -- >> David Scheidt >> dmscheidt at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From bk13 at earthlink.net Wed Dec 21 13:17:55 2011 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 12:17:55 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: <2F4BEDD7607949DDAB16C2FA0E0978F5@stargate> References: <2F4BEDD7607949DDAB16C2FA0E0978F5@stargate> Message-ID: <4EF23EF3.50002@earthlink.net> Local stores obviously vary with Discount Tire. After rebuilding the front suspension of my TR6, I went to Discount Tire for a full alignment and new tires. Despite having removed the clamps off the new rubber boots from the steering rack, their alignment guy managed to rip them both. I went back and they said it wasn't their problem, but if I bought new boots, they would install them. A regional manager happened to be there and looked at the front suspension with all the shiny new nuts and bolts and said he would not have accepted the car for an alignment following my rebuild. The alignment was close before going in and the car drove well for dead tires. When I got it back, the steering wheel was off about 15 degrees - probably why he had to adjust it far enough to tear both boots. I will never deal with Discount Tire again following that experience. With the experience, below, I would carefully double check everything before paying the bill. Brian On 12/21/2011 11:00 AM, gordies garage wrote: > We were discussing experiences with Discount Tire. > > Gordie > >> Several tire sellers were metnioned in this string. To which one do >> you refer? >> Tim >> >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:47 PM, David Scheidt wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:57 PM, gordies garage >>> wrote: >>>> I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to call them experts >>> >>> They sold me a set of tires that were the incorrect size, and lied >>> about it. Wrote the wrong thing on the invoice, even. I didn't >>> notice until a week or two later, when I was on the highway and >>> noticed the speed indicated to keep up with traffic was higher than >>> I'd expect. Went back, complained got told 'we'd never do something >>> like that, why don't you go f* off and die.' The corporate people >>> used less profanity, but told me I was a liar. (Where the heck am I >>> going to get new tires the wrong size but the correct model, and why >>> bother?) My credit card company was a lot more sympathetic about >>> it.... Needless to say, I'm never going back. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> David Scheidt >>> dmscheidt at gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 15:29:45 2011 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 16:29:45 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing Gasoline; was: Re: OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <283912386.1371521.1324483756141.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <002501ccbff4$f7b4f9e0$e71eeda0$@cablespeed.com> <283912386.1371521.1324483756141.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Bob Spidell wrote: > I have some education/training in chemistry, but have never understood how an organic compound like gasoline--or an inorganic compound, for that matter--can be 'stabilized.' The only thing that seems rational to me is gasoline is a volatile organic compound; some components will vaporize more easily than others and change the composition of the fuel. Moral of the story: store gas in a sealed (can) or nearly sealed (tank) in moderate temperatures. Anything that purports to 'stabilize' gasoline would have to modify its chemical makeup, and possibly its vapor pressure. Not a good idea in general. Gasoline 'spoils' through two processes. One is evaporation of the lighter fractions. The other is oxidation of the component parts. You can add antioxidants to keep that from happening, which is what sta-bil et al are, among other things. Depending on what's in the gasoline, the oxidation can produce gum and other nasty stuff (why bad gas turns brown). What's in gasoline depends largely on what the base oil was, and what the refinery did. There are rather substantial differences. (gasoline also gets contaminated with water, but that's different.) > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Dec 21 22:04:12 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:04:12 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying tires online (or is it Tyres?) In-Reply-To: <4EF23EF3.50002@earthlink.net> References: <2F4BEDD7607949DDAB16C2FA0E0978F5@stargate> <4EF23EF3.50002@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <021801ccc067$258fd750$0201a8c0@randall> > I will never deal with Discount Tire again following that > experience. Was that the store near (or perhaps in) Hawthorne? I had a bad experience with them myself years ago; but I believe it was isolated to that store. I have been pleased with the one in Torrance (although they said they were unable to align my TR3A front suspension for me). My sob story: They ran an ad in the paper for tires that fit my motorhome; then tried to charge me extra for mounting and balancing when the ad clearly said it was included in the sale price. After I started yelling loud enough to scare away other customers, the manager agreed to honor the ad. Then they put the tires on my motorhome without balancing them (or apparently realizing that I was watching them work). And then still tried to slip in an extra charge for mounting and balancing! -- Randall From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Thu Dec 22 05:05:37 2011 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 07:05:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing Gasoline; was: Re: OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: References: <002501ccbff4$f7b4f9e0$e71eeda0$@cablespeed.com> <283912386.1371521.1324483756141.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: I can attest to the varnish that forms when gas is left sitting for too long exposed to the air. I neglected to drain the gas from the carburetor in our lawnmower before it sat for two years. This spring I filled it with gas and as soon as I started it gas started shooting out the priming bulb. According to the small engine shop this is a "failure mode" when the carb is gunked-up. [dunno] I had the shop clean the carb and it still doesn't idle properly until it is fully warmed. I immediately put fuel stabilizer in the snow blower and it started on the first pull last week (it sat for 9 months). One of my winter projects will be getting that darn lawnmower to idle -- I have to manually rev it now to keep it from stalling while it warms up. - Ian -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Scheidt Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:30 PM To: Bob Spidell Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Storing Gasoline; was: Re: OT--car won't start. Gasoline 'spoils' through two processes. One is evaporation of the lighter fractions. The other is oxidation of the component parts. You can add antioxidants to keep that from happening, which is what sta-bil et al are, among other things. Depending on what's in the gasoline, the oxidation can produce gum and other nasty stuff (why bad gas turns brown). What's in gasoline depends largely on what the base oil was, and what the refinery did. There are rather substantial differences. From jszwed at energykinetics.com Thu Dec 22 05:40:00 2011 From: jszwed at energykinetics.com (Joe Szwed) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 07:40:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing Gasoline In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D6891114C4A42FF84AF6E416C0861ED@EnergyKinetics.EKnet> I don't know if anyone reads Vintage Truck Magazine or is familiar with Bob Adler and his column "Notes from the Corrosion Lab". But he did and article a while back on winter storage and fuel, and talks about seasonal gas formulas and how stabilizers are supposed to work. I thought it was pretty interesting and found a link to it on his website. http://adlersantiqueautos.com/articles/winterstorage.html Joe From tputland at charter.net Thu Dec 22 07:22:47 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:22:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] [Roadsters] Slightly OT--car won't start Message-ID: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> Thanks again to all who replied. Sorry for the verboseness here.... I had checked the terminals, grounds, cables, etc. (learned about this part from the Datto!). When the battery showed fully charged on the tender, I assumed (incorrectly) that the battery was fine. This was my first experience with a failed battery AND a battery tender. I didn't know that a battery can show fully charged and still be bad (a new thing learned!!!). So, after minor surgery to just get the old battery out ( I had to remove the air filter box, three hoses and two electrical connections to get to the bottom of the battery hold down as the nut and bolt were just spinning). I placed a different battery in the car and it was an immediate improvement in engine turn over speed. But the car still would not start. Since this new battery was too big, I had to go buy one that was the correct size. Once installed the car would still not start. Well, dumbassthatIam, there is not a car in the world that will start with the coil wire disconnected (had to move it as it was in the way of pulling a hose to get the air box out). So, reconnect the coil wire and it fired right up. So, like i said, another thing learned! My daughter, bless her heart, asked me if I wanted money for the battery! I told her not necessarily as I knew she HAD no clue what automotive batteries cost. The look on her face later on when I told her how much I paid yesterday? PRICELESS!! Thanks again too all who replied!! Happy Holidays All!!! A little less clueless today than yesterday Tim From bspidell at comcast.net Thu Dec 22 07:39:27 2011 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 06:39:27 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Roadsters] Slightly OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> Message-ID: <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> re: "I didn't know that a battery can show fully charged and still be bad (a new thing learned!!!). " 'Fully charged' usually just means the battery shows nominal voltage (around 12.7V, IIRC). You can charge a battery to this level--I believe it's called 'flash charge' or similar--but a dying battery will discharge and the voltage will drop immediately when any load is applied. I sprung for a battery load tester the other day. Part of this test process is to put a load on the battery for a few seconds to drain the 'flash charge,' then run the actual test. I recommend a load tester to anyone who doesn't want to be surprised by a dead or dying battery. They are relatively inexpensive these days, although the quality reflects that in some ways; in particular the cables get pretty warm after a 15-second test. You want the 500 amp carbon-pile variety. Bob On 12/22/2011 6:22 AM, Tim wrote: > Thanks again to all who replied. Sorry for the verboseness here.... > > I had checked the terminals, grounds, cables, etc. (learned about this > part from the Datto!). > > When the battery showed fully charged on the tender, I assumed > (incorrectly) that the battery was fine. > > This was my first experience with a failed battery AND a battery tender. > I didn't know that a battery can show fully charged and still be bad (a > new thing learned!!!). > > So, after minor surgery to just get the old battery out ( I had to > remove the air filter box, three hoses and two electrical connections to > get to the bottom of the battery hold down as the nut and bolt were just > spinning). I placed a different battery in the car and it was an > immediate improvement in engine turn over speed. But the car still would > not start. Since this new battery was too big, I had to go buy one that > was the correct size. Once installed the car would still not start. > Well, dumbassthatIam, there is not a car in the world that will start > with the coil wire disconnected (had to move it as it was in the way of > pulling a hose to get the air box out). So, reconnect the coil wire and > it fired right up. > > So, like i said, another thing learned! > > My daughter, bless her heart, asked me if I wanted money for the > battery! I told her not necessarily as I knew she HAD no clue what > automotive batteries cost. The look on her face later on when I told her > how much I paid yesterday? PRICELESS!! > > Thanks again too all who replied!! > > Happy Holidays All!!! > > A little less clueless today than yesterday > Tim > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From jblair1948 at cox.net Thu Dec 22 08:09:10 2011 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:09:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Roadsters] Slightly OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> At 09:39 AM 12/22/2011, Bob Spidell wrote: >>re: "I didn't know that a battery can show fully charged and still be bad (a new thing learned!!!). " >'Fully charged' usually just means the battery shows nominal voltage (around 12.7V, IIRC). You can >charge a battery to this level--I believe it's called 'flash charge' or similar--but a dying battery will >discharge and the voltage will drop immediately when any load is applied. >I sprung for a battery load tester the other day..... Having a true battery load tester is great!! But I also suggest that everyone pick up a cheap multimeter from Harbor Freight, especially when they go on sale, less than $5 and carry it in your car. I have one in every car and every tool box, on the garage bench, and a couple in the house. To test a car battery, place the leads across the battery you should see 12V or more. Then have some one try and start the car. If the voltage goes below about 11 V then the battery is dead. A volt meter will show a battery is charged even though it's dead because the meter doesn't draw any current. So you have to put a load on the battery, like trying to start the engine or turn on the headlights. A quick easy test. Then when the engine is running over 1500 rpm the voltage should read 14 - 14.7 V. If not then you probably have a bad alternator and it can't charge the battery, or the battery could be bad. But most of the time is the alternator or a bad electrical connection. For more info. check out the article "The Starting System" http://www.team.net/www/morgan/tech/electrical/starting/art026.html on my Morgan web page. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy: e pluribus Unum, "from many, one." In God We Trust Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting for oneself; freedom from control or restriction From strovato at optonline.net Thu Dec 22 09:27:09 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:27:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Roadsters] Slightly OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> Message-ID: <0LWM003BG5RVRL20@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> And the truth is, that's about the cheapest "no-start" you'll ever experience. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 09:22 AM 12/22/2011, Tim wrote: >My daughter, bless her heart, asked me if I wanted money for the >battery! I told her not necessarily as I knew she HAD no clue what >automotive batteries cost. The look on her face later on when I told her >how much I paid yesterday? PRICELESS!! From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Dec 22 11:22:06 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 10:22:06 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Roadsters] Slightly OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net><4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> Message-ID: <02ac01ccc0d6$9ce74bc0$0201a8c0@randall> > Then have some one > try and start the car. If the voltage goes below about 11 V then the > battery is dead. I agree entirely, except with that point. If you check while the starter is actually cranking the engine, as low as 9v is still considered normal in reasonably warm weather, and it can drop below 7v if it is very cold. "Cold Crank Amps" (aka CCA) is measured at 0F and 7.2 volts. Even RC (Reserve Capacity, not a measure of starting power) is measured at 10.5 volts. Also, a shorted starter can pull the voltage down low, even with a healthy battery. Certainly a bad battery is the more common cause, but I have had a bad starter do the same thing. (Although the smoking cables were a hint ) -- Randall From strovato at optonline.net Thu Dec 22 12:33:53 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:33:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Roadsters] Slightly OT--car won't start In-Reply-To: <02ac01ccc0d6$9ce74bc0$0201a8c0@randall> References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <02ac01ccc0d6$9ce74bc0$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <0LWM00DQAEDUMIM0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> You can also do a poor mans load test using the headlights. While measuring battery voltage, just leave the headlights on for maybe a minute. Then turn them off and wait 30 seconds or so. If you're not still seeing decent battery voltage, then the either the battery wasn't charged, or it's shot. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From jamesf at groupwbench.org Wed Dec 14 10:55:26 2011 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 12:55:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable 5 gal air tank recommendations? Message-ID: <19b37d8aba0902f3de8662294c64d63b.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Looking to get one for a friend for xmas. I did a search on Sears and Amazon, all reviews were iffy. Campbell-Hausfeld (which I have) no longer make them. Are there known good ones out there or are they all $30 Craftsman quality? thanks! jim From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 11:52:17 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 13:52:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Sebastian lathe? Message-ID: <4EE8F061.9070003@gmail.com> So I Googled, and I read the lathes.co.uk site, and I still don't have an answer--do they make good lathes, or should I wait for something better to come around? He doesn't know which one it is, I think, but it appears to be circa-1940s. Thanks. Scott From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 05:52:52 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 07:52:52 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Portable 5 gal air tank recommendations? In-Reply-To: <19b37d8aba0902f3de8662294c64d63b.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> References: <19b37d8aba0902f3de8662294c64d63b.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Message-ID: Harbor Freight sells an aluminum one that screams, "Christmas present". I've seen what I assume is the same tank in other stores too, I just assume they've all got the same supplier. On Dec 23, 2011 12:49 AM, "Jim Franklin" wrote: > Looking to get one for a friend for xmas. I did a search on Sears and > Amazon, all reviews were iffy. Campbell-Hausfeld (which I have) no longer > make them. > > Are there known good ones out there or are they all $30 Craftsman quality? > > thanks! > > jim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal at gmail.com From fishplate at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 08:46:54 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:46:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Test and a question Message-ID: Forgive the waste of bandwidth...I'm having trouble (I think) posting a message about air compressors. Is there a way to search the archives? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From fishplate at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 08:49:03 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:49:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors Message-ID: Hello and Happy Festivus! Santa has graciously allowed me to pick out an air compressor for my Christmas gift. However, he claims to not know too much about various brands. After telling me my budget, I've got it narrowed down to three of similar spec, which I surmise will suit the average hobby garage: http://tinyurl.com/HD-Husky Husky at Home Depot http://tinyurl.com/Lowe-Kobalt Kobalt at Lowe's http://tinyurl.com/TSC-CH Campbell-Hausfield at Tractor Supply I note the the Husky and the C-H appear nearly identical. My experience with Husky is limited to a small pancake compressor, and none at all with the others. My current compressor is a 35-year-old Craftsman 1HP, 20 gallon with a rusty tank. Anything is an improvement, but if I'm going to shell out this kind of dough, I only want to do it once. I'd appreciate any advice or recommendation, not necessarily limited to these three, but in the general price range and capacity. Thanks! Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. Original links: EOT From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 09:29:35 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:29:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EF4AC6F.3030500@gmail.com> Heh. Give up on that idea. I asked Santa for an 80-gallon two-stage I-R compressor. I'm sure *that* will be the last compressor I buy...but probably not. There are two not-bad compressors for sale on Craigslist near me right now. If I hadn't been pining for the big I-R for so long, I'd probably go that route. Very similar specs (even better, really), just one runs on 3-phase, and the other looks bad and I don't want to risk having to rehab this purchase if its performance is anything like its looks. But I see decent new homeowner compressors on CL all the time. Might want to check it out. On 12/23/2011 10:49 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > if I'm going to shell out this kind of dough, I only > want to do it once. From arvidj at visi.com Fri Dec 23 09:30:33 2011 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:30:33 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24F135493137421FA876AEFB1B021E0C@HP62011> Just my opinion ... All are 60 gallon, twin cylinder, cast iron, oil bath. Using a Minnesota zip code for pricing ... Husky ($449) and Campbell-Hausfield ($469) are 11.5 SCFM, 40 psi and 10.2 SCFM at 90 psi, 135 PSI maximum pressure. Kobalt ($449) is 13.4 SCFM @ 40 PSI, 11.5 SCFM @ 90 PSI, 155 PSI max pressure Of the three, the Kobalt is tied for cheapest and provides more air, both in maximum pressure [which means that there will be more air in the tank] and delivered SCFM [which is suppose to indicate what the pump can actually deliver] . In my mind the Kobalt is the clear winner. Arvid -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Scarbrough Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 9:49 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors Hello and Happy Festivus! Santa has graciously allowed me to pick out an air compressor for my Christmas gift. However, he claims to not know too much about various brands. After telling me my budget, I've got it narrowed down to three of similar spec, which I surmise will suit the average hobby garage: http://tinyurl.com/HD-Husky Husky at Home Depot http://tinyurl.com/Lowe-Kobalt Kobalt at Lowe's http://tinyurl.com/TSC-CH Campbell-Hausfield at Tractor Supply I note the the Husky and the C-H appear nearly identical. My experience with Husky is limited to a small pancake compressor, and none at all with the others. My current compressor is a 35-year-old Craftsman 1HP, 20 gallon with a rusty tank. Anything is an improvement, but if I'm going to shell out this kind of dough, I only want to do it once. I'd appreciate any advice or recommendation, not necessarily limited to these three, but in the general price range and capacity. Thanks! Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. Original links: EOT _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/arvidj at visi.com From bk13 at earthlink.net Fri Dec 23 10:26:38 2011 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:26:38 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EF4B9CE.2030203@earthlink.net> I have Husky Model VT6315 (the biggest one with wheels) and have no complaints. For a compressor, it isn't painfully loud, though is slightly smaller than the one you listed. I wanted wheels so I could move the compressor closer to where it was needed and plug into a regular 120V outlet. This worked at well at my previous house on a flat lot. My only problem now at the new house is a poor electrical system and getting the compressor started the first time. I have to flip it on for only about 5 seconds at a time until it starts or I pop the breaker. Once started the first time, I'm good. One of these days I'll run real power to the garage. Can't blame the compressor for this. The voltmeter shows about 80 volts when the compressor is trying to start and the wall outlet. The comparable Kobalt didn't have the fit and finish of the Husky at the time I looked. I seem to recall that Husky was made by C-H. Brian On 12/23/2011 7:49 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > Hello and Happy Festivus! > > Santa has graciously allowed me to pick out an air compressor for my > Christmas gift. However, he claims to not know too much about various > brands. After telling me my budget, I've got it narrowed down to > three of similar spec, which I surmise will suit the average hobby > garage: > > http://tinyurl.com/HD-Husky Husky at Home Depot > > http://tinyurl.com/Lowe-Kobalt Kobalt at Lowe's > > http://tinyurl.com/TSC-CH Campbell-Hausfield at Tractor Supply > > I note the the Husky and the C-H appear nearly identical. My > experience with Husky is limited to a small pancake compressor, and > none at all with the others. My current compressor is a 35-year-old > Craftsman 1HP, 20 gallon with a rusty tank. Anything is an > improvement, but if I'm going to shell out this kind of dough, I only > want to do it once. > > I'd appreciate any advice or recommendation, not necessarily limited > to these three, but in the general price range and capacity. > > > Thanks! > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > > > Original links: > > > > > > > > EOT > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From nases at verizon.net Fri Dec 23 10:54:17 2011 From: nases at verizon.net (Phil Nase) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:54:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: <4EF4B9CE.2030203@earthlink.net> References: <4EF4B9CE.2030203@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <78F70B80-3E93-4A8A-A447-FAD09EA9C282@verizon.net> I have the 6314. I got it about 6 or 7 years ago. I restored a Sprite and maintain 2 Sprites with it and other than replacing the water drain all I've done is normal maintenance. Phil Nase Quakertown, PA home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ On Dec 23, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Brian Kemp wrote: > I have Husky Model VT6315 (the biggest one with wheels) and have no complaints. For a compressor, it isn't painfully loud, though is slightly smaller than the one you listed. I wanted wheels so I could move the compressor closer to where it was needed and plug into a regular 120V outlet. This worked at well at my previous house on a flat lot. > > My only problem now at the new house is a poor electrical system and getting the compressor started the first time. I have to flip it on for only about 5 seconds at a time until it starts or I pop the breaker. Once started the first time, I'm good. One of these days I'll run real power to the garage. Can't blame the compressor for this. The voltmeter shows about 80 volts when the compressor is trying to start and the wall outlet. > > The comparable Kobalt didn't have the fit and finish of the Husky at the time I looked. I seem to recall that Husky was made by C-H. > > Brian > > On 12/23/2011 7:49 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: >> Hello and Happy Festivus! >> >> Santa has graciously allowed me to pick out an air compressor for my >> Christmas gift. However, he claims to not know too much about various >> brands. After telling me my budget, I've got it narrowed down to >> three of similar spec, which I surmise will suit the average hobby >> garage: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/HD-Husky Husky at Home Depot >> >> http://tinyurl.com/Lowe-Kobalt Kobalt at Lowe's >> >> http://tinyurl.com/TSC-CH Campbell-Hausfield at Tractor Supply >> >> I note the the Husky and the C-H appear nearly identical. My >> experience with Husky is limited to a small pancake compressor, and >> none at all with the others. My current compressor is a 35-year-old >> Craftsman 1HP, 20 gallon with a rusty tank. Anything is an >> improvement, but if I'm going to shell out this kind of dough, I only >> want to do it once. >> >> I'd appreciate any advice or recommendation, not necessarily limited >> to these three, but in the general price range and capacity. >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jeff Scarbrough >> Corrosion Acres, Ga. >> >> >> Original links: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> EOT >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nases at verizon.net From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Dec 23 11:22:06 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:22:06 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00c601ccc19f$c71c8e40$0201a8c0@randall> > I'd appreciate any advice or recommendation, not necessarily limited > to these three, but in the general price range and capacity. My suggestion would be exactly what I did : Look for a lightly used compressor made by a name-brand company (like IR). Mine was sold by Sears and has the Craftsman name on it, but was actually made by IR. And for $400, I got an 80-gallon vertical, 2-stage compressor that, as long as I keep the tank drained properly, should last me until I don't need it any more. The price included 100ft of good condition hose, and a giant flower pot that my wife wanted (similar pots sell for around $100 at the big box). It's rated 16.9 scfm @ 175 psi (but I've not tried to confirm that). -- Randall From phoenix722 at comcast.net Fri Dec 23 12:02:27 2011 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:02:27 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors References: <4EF4B9CE.2030203@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8AFB4A1F2F3D49D9A35B0B66A526DB7D@Mike> I have found that the length of extension cord makes a huge difference on starting. And I have a good cord, too. Everything nowadays comes with too short a cord (for safety!). Mike From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Fri Dec 23 13:03:20 2011 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 15:03:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20111223200320.9IE0G.78866.root@cdptpa-web34-z02.mail.rr.com> Based on limited information I would choose the C-H. Have you considered DeWalt? They make products in this same range. Also I notice if you search the Sears website they sell a lot of expensive brands of compressors that they don't stock in their stores. OK, I just looked and they have their "Craftsman Professional" that are in the same size and price range as the ones you list, and look very similar. They also have brands like Ingersoll-Rand which used to be top brands in air tools, but the comparable I-R compressor is double the price of the ones that you list. What I do is to read the user reviews and total them up. I figure if a person gives a 1 or 2 rating then they are extremely displeased with the product and I don't want to be in that position, but the people that give at least a 3 are not that displeased. All 3 of the units you list have a reasonable amount of reviews and the reviews total as follows: Husky: 5 out of 36 gave 1 or 2, that is 14%1 Kobalt: 5 out of 23 gave 1 or 2, that is 22% C-H: 1 out of 24 gave 1 or 2, that is 4% Based on that the C-H is the winner. I was wanting a small compressor for Christmas also, but with much less budget than you. I wanted to be able to air up tires, run a nail gun, run small air tools up to running a good impact wrench for a few seconds to break loose something that I can't do by hand. I worked in a garage quite a bit but for a lot of my work I prefer to do it by hand rather than use an impact wrench, but there are times when only an impact wrench will do. Also I've read that a good impact wrench will do the job with much less air flow than a real cheap air wrench, so I would probably buy a good wrench when the need arises. And lastly I don't have a lot of room for the compressor. After some research I didn't find anything at Sears that I would accept. I did find a small C-H at Lowes and a small Husky at Home Depot. In the process of doing my research I discovered that C-H is an American company that makes compressors, Husky and Kobalt are rebrands sold by Home Depot and Lowes. Granted some of the products that C-H sell may very well be made in China but I wonder if being an American company, parts would be easier to get. Another thing I discovered in my research is that the cheaper compressors are not a worry-free purchase. They seem to have a high degree of problems. Maybe some of the problems can be fixed by a handyman, maybe not. I could not justify spending 2 or 3 times as much for my home use or I would do it, but I do intend to purchase an extended warranty. Maybe in your price range they are more dependable. My father has owned his garage for over 50 years and I don't ever recall him having trouble with his air compressor. It is a big monster that does what it is supposed to do, nothing less. > Santa has graciously allowed me to pick out an air compressor From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Dec 23 13:15:57 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 15:15:57 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: These are all single-stage compressors (don't be fooled by "twin-cylinder"). If you are going to go through all the trouble of getting and hooking up a non-portable 240-volt compressor, it really ought to be a 2-stage model. Be extra good for the next couple of days, and maybe Santa will be willing to spring for a two-stage model... Doug On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote: > Hello and Happy Festivus! > > Santa has graciously allowed me to pick out an air compressor for my > Christmas gift. However, he claims to not know too much about various > brands. After telling me my budget, I've got it narrowed down to > three of similar spec, which I surmise will suit the average hobby > garage: > > http://tinyurl.com/HD-Husky Husky at Home Depot > > http://tinyurl.com/Lowe-Kobalt Kobalt at Lowe's > > http://tinyurl.com/TSC-CH Campbell-Hausfield at Tractor Supply From jandkstone99 at msn.com Fri Dec 23 16:13:26 2011 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:13:26 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: <00c601ccc19f$c71c8e40$0201a8c0@randall> References: , <00c601ccc19f$c71c8e40$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: I also have the HD/Husky unit, bought about 7 years ago. It has worked fine and I probably neglected it more than I should, so no complaints on that front. There is nothing at all wrong with it, but it barely handles my media blaster (one of my favorite tools), sometimes bogs down when using cut off wheels and my HF angle grinder and cannot handle a dual action sander. As a result, if I had it to do over again I would probably take Randall's advice and see what I could find used on Craig's List. > From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com > To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:22:06 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors > > > I'd appreciate any advice or recommendation, not necessarily limited > > to these three, but in the general price range and capacity. > > My suggestion would be exactly what I did : Look for a lightly used > compressor made by a name-brand company (like IR). Mine was sold by Sears > and has the Craftsman name on it, but was actually made by IR. And for > $400, I got an 80-gallon vertical, 2-stage compressor that, as long as I > keep the tank drained properly, should last me until I don't need it any > more. The price included 100ft of good condition hose, and a giant flower > pot that my wife wanted (similar pots sell for around $100 at the big box). > It's rated 16.9 scfm @ 175 psi (but I've not tried to confirm that). > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Dec 23 16:52:37 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 18:52:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: References: <00c601ccc19f$c71c8e40$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: I have a Delta-branded 16.9 CFM unit, which I got about 6 years ago from Sam's Club. The only issue it ever had was a bit of junk caught in the main check valve, which took about 15 minutes to remedy. Doug On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Jim Stone wrote: >> My suggestion would be exactly what I did : Look for a lightly used >> compressor made by a name-brand company (like IR). Mine was sold by Sears >> and has the Craftsman name on it, but was actually made by IR. And for >> $400, I got an 80-gallon vertical, 2-stage compressor that, as long as I >> keep the tank drained properly, should last me until I don't need it any >> more. The price included 100ft of good condition hose, and a giant flower >> pot that my wife wanted (similar pots sell for around $100 at the big box). >> It's rated 16.9 scfm @ 175 psi (but I've not tried to confirm that). From jibjib at att.net Fri Dec 23 21:26:48 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 20:26:48 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors In-Reply-To: References: , <00c601ccc19f$c71c8e40$0201a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <85C7561209AB487FB1E1318DCE3778AA@EntCentPC> Be careful to read the CFM requirements of HF tools. Often when they make them cheap, they use a huge amount of air. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Stone Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 3:13 PM To: tr3driver at ca.rr.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors I also have the HD/Husky unit, bought about 7 years ago. It has worked fine and I probably neglected it more than I should, so no complaints on that front. There is nothing at all wrong with it, but it barely handles my media blaster (one of my favorite tools), sometimes bogs down when using cut off wheels and my HF angle grinder and cannot handle a dual action sander. As a result, if I had it to do over again I would probably take Randall's advice and see what I could find used on Craig's List. > From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com > To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:22:06 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Air Compressors > > > I'd appreciate any advice or recommendation, not necessarily limited > > to these three, but in the general price range and capacity. > > My suggestion would be exactly what I did : Look for a lightly used > compressor made by a name-brand company (like IR). Mine was sold by Sears > and has the Craftsman name on it, but was actually made by IR. And for > $400, I got an 80-gallon vertical, 2-stage compressor that, as long as I > keep the tank drained properly, should last me until I don't need it any > more. The price included 100ft of good condition hose, and a giant flower > pot that my wife wanted (similar pots sell for around $100 at the big box). > It's rated 16.9 scfm @ 175 psi (but I've not tried to confirm that). > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Dec 27 10:54:17 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:54:17 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand Message-ID: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> I'm building a engine test stand for the '53s engine... a 460... got everything rounded up and welded together and have a Caddy radiator to cool it with... I need a suggestion for a cooling fan. Want to find one from a junk yard but they want make and model to know what to look for.. radiator is huge... probably 18" hi and 28" wide..... a nice dual fan set up would be nice.... tell me some makes/models that might have a fan that would give me good flow thru this radiator... thanks John "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can " From parkanzky at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 11:58:06 2011 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:58:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand In-Reply-To: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> References: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <003401ccc4c9$78ec1470$6ac43d50$@com> Did the Caddy you got the radiator from have an electric fan? Otherwise, do you have any You-Pull-It style yards in your area? If you do, you could walk the yard until you come across a setup that is 'just right.' And you never know what else you'll come across that you desperately needed exploring one of those places. -Paul P. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 12:54 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand I'm building a engine test stand for the '53s engine... a 460... got everything rounded up and welded together and have a Caddy radiator to cool it with... I need a suggestion for a cooling fan. Want to find one from a junk yard but they want make and model to know what to look for.. radiator is huge... probably 18" hi and 28" wide..... a nice dual fan set up would be nice.... tell me some makes/models that might have a fan that would give me good flow thru this radiator... thanks John From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Dec 27 12:02:19 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:02:19 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand In-Reply-To: <003401ccc4c9$78ec1470$6ac43d50$@com> References: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> <003401ccc4c9$78ec1470$6ac43d50$@com> Message-ID: <1C9F42305841462E9054168EC8B29D01@OwnerPC> only one you pull and its 50-60 miles away... don't know the year of the radiator I have...yet... I'm seeing some net references to a 95-2000 ford contour double fan that pulls around 32-3400 cfm... now I'm trying to find a local yard that has one ! My desperately needed list could bankrupt me... kinda like a kid in a candy store thing ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Parkanzky" To: "'john niolon'" ; "'shop-talk'" Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand > Did the Caddy you got the radiator from have an electric fan? > > Otherwise, do you have any You-Pull-It style yards in your area? If you > do, > you could walk the yard until you come across a setup that is 'just > right.' > And you never know what else you'll come across that you desperately > needed > exploring one of those places. > > -Paul P. > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 12:54 PM > To: shop-talk > Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand > > I'm building a engine test stand for the '53s engine... a 460... > > got everything rounded up and welded together and have a Caddy radiator to > cool it with... I need a suggestion for a cooling fan. > > Want to find one from a junk yard but they want make and model to know > what > to look for.. > > radiator is huge... probably 18" hi and 28" wide..... a nice dual fan set > up would be nice.... > > tell me some makes/models that might have a fan that would give me good > flow > thru this radiator... > > thanks > John > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4106 - Release Date: 12/27/11 From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Tue Dec 27 12:06:19 2011 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 14:06:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand In-Reply-To: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> References: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I have no suggestion for a junk yard part to pull, but you could consider electric aftermarket radiator fans (e.g. Flex a light) from places like Summit, Jeggs, etc. I've had good success using them to replace belt driven fans. Since shrouds are so important in the overall cooling, I'd pick the combination of shrouds that gives the best coverage (versus matching fan diameters). >got everything rounded up and welded together and have a Caddy radiator to cool it with... I need a suggestion for a cooling fan. >Want to find one from a junk yard but they want make and model to know what to look for.. From jem at milleredp.com Tue Dec 27 12:29:16 2011 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:29:16 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand In-Reply-To: References: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4EFA1C8C.40507@milleredp.com> >> Want to find one from a junk yard but they want make and model to know what > to look for.. You going to run that engine hard enough on a test stand to need a Cadillac radiator? As for "make and model", you don't have any of the pick-it-yourself type junkyards you can descend on with a measuring tape? Personally, I'd suggest finding a radiator and shroud assembly from a car that started out with an electric-fan shroud - the Lincoln Mark VIII would be a good one if you need something big, or any Taurus, almost anything FWD built in the past couple decades. John. From jniolon at bham.rr.com Tue Dec 27 12:46:23 2011 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:46:23 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand In-Reply-To: <4EFA1C8C.40507@milleredp.com> References: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> <4EFA1C8C.40507@milleredp.com> Message-ID: Hi John Running in a new engine will generate more heat than a 'broken in' engine... things are tighter and until it settles in there will be more heat generated... I wanted a system that would keep it as cool as possible.. also there are budgetary constraints (ain't there always) The big ole honkin Caddy radiator was free. Free is my perfect price. I'm just trying to find a fan that will move some air over it... No u-pulls for 50-60 miles and wandering time is limited. I'm seeing Taurus and even better... Contour fans as a good choice. Just got to find a local yard with an affordable one... john ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Miller" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand >>> Want to find one from a junk yard but they want make and model to know >>> what >> to look for.. > > You going to run that engine hard enough on a test stand to need a > Cadillac radiator? > > As for "make and model", you don't have any of the pick-it-yourself type > junkyards you can descend on with a measuring tape? > > Personally, I'd suggest finding a radiator and shroud assembly from a car > that started out with an electric-fan shroud - the Lincoln Mark VIII would > be a good one if you need something big, or any Taurus, almost anything > FWD built in the past couple decades. > > John. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4106 - Release Date: 12/27/11 From jibjib at att.net Tue Dec 27 14:03:40 2011 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 13:03:40 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand In-Reply-To: References: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC><4EFA1C8C.40507@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <13A0168ED76544C1AFC92987A8209EF5@EntCentPC> Box fan. That is what I used in front of my TR3 when I broke the new engine in and it was installed. Yeah, your engine is larger, but a box fan on high, snug up against the radiator face will blow a lot of air. Jack From fishplate at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 14:37:53 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 16:37:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand In-Reply-To: <13A0168ED76544C1AFC92987A8209EF5@EntCentPC> References: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC> <4EFA1C8C.40507@milleredp.com> <13A0168ED76544C1AFC92987A8209EF5@EntCentPC> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Jack Brooks wrote: > Box fan. 100% full of win, that idea is. From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Dec 27 14:51:09 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 16:51:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> Message-ID: I'm trying to find a set of pliers, that I'm fairly sure exist. What I need are pliers with the handle and jaws offset by 90 degrees. In other words, if the handle was oriented horizontally, the jaws would open or close vertically. I was on the phone with my father over the Holiday, telling him, and he says "Oh I've got a set of those." He claims my uncle gave him a set of three such pliers, made by Husky Tools, for Christmas last year or maybe the year before. As he described them to me, the heads actually can be rotated from zero to ninety degrees offset. He was only able to find 2 of the 3, and not the one I need (long nose)... plus he lives a thousand miles away, so borrowing them is not convenient. This was a good lead, though, so I searched Home Depot's site, and also Google'd for such Husky pliers. Both failed to turn up anything. Anyone know where I can buy such a tool? Thanks. -- David Hillman From paul.mele at usermail.com Tue Dec 27 14:57:20 2011 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 16:57:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] radiator cooling fan for a test stand In-Reply-To: <13A0168ED76544C1AFC92987A8209EF5@EntCentPC> References: <6D3069A83B3543B89898A355127A42DA@OwnerPC><4EFA1C8C.40507@milleredp.com> <13A0168ED76544C1AFC92987A8209EF5@EntCentPC> Message-ID: <005e01ccc4e2$8334cb70$899e6250$@mele@usermail.com> HVAC (residential) techs pitch the outside unit/ condenser, fan, compressor/ when they do upgrades; I have several fans from those units; price was $0.00. as noted, since it's a test stand, no need for 12vdc operation. the fans I have are 220VAC; can run on 110 for "low"; still a lot of cfm, less noise. PM <> From shannahquilts at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 15:52:36 2011 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 14:52:36 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> Message-ID: Can he/you send a photo? The closest thing I've been able to find is some pliers we have by Kobalt. Shannah On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 1:51 PM, David Hillman wrote: > I'm trying to find a set of pliers, that I'm fairly sure exist. What I > need are pliers with the handle and jaws offset by 90 degrees. In other > words, if the handle was oriented horizontally, the jaws would open or > close vertically. > > I was on the phone with my father over the Holiday, telling him, and he > says "Oh I've got a set of those." He claims my uncle gave him a set of > three such pliers, made by Husky Tools, for Christmas last year or maybe > the year before. As he described them to me, the heads actually can be > rotated from zero to ninety degrees offset. He was only able to find 2 of > the 3, and not the one I need (long nose)... plus he lives a thousand miles > away, so borrowing them is not convenient. > > This was a good lead, though, so I searched Home Depot's site, and also > Google'd for such Husky pliers. Both failed to turn up anything. > > Anyone know where I can buy such a tool? > > Thanks. > > -- > David Hillman > ______________________________**_________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/**options/shop-talk/** > shannahquilts at gmail.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Dec 27 16:09:28 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:09:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Shannah Miller wrote: > Can he/you send a photo? The closest thing I've been able > to find is some pliers we have by Kobalt. I'm sure he could, but I haven't asked yet. I didn't think it'd be this hard to find. If I haven't found one by the next time I talk to him, I'm going to ask if there's any other identification on the ones he found, like a part number, for example. Thanks. -- David Hillman From racertod at racertodd.com Tue Dec 27 16:46:41 2011 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 15:46:41 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com> Trying to picture what you're describing. How about 90-degree needle-nose pliers? Something like this: Is that close? Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 274,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 318,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From arvidj at visi.com Tue Dec 27 17:35:34 2011 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:35:34 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net><4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net><6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> Message-ID: Maybe not your vendor of choice but pictures to get the discussion going ... does what you need look anything like these and if not what modifications would need to be made to make them work? http://www.harborfreight.com/11-inch-90-angle-long-reach-pliers-39539.html http://www.harborfreight.com/16-inch-long-reach-pliers-set-38598.html http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-11-inch-straight-90-angle-long-reach-pliers-33203.html too big? too small? jaws not long enough? jaws too long? what ever? Arvid -----Original Message----- From: David Hillman Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:51 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? I'm trying to find a set of pliers, that I'm fairly sure exist. What I need are pliers with the handle and jaws offset by 90 degrees. In other words, if the handle was oriented horizontally, the jaws would open or close vertically. I was on the phone with my father over the Holiday, telling him, and he says "Oh I've got a set of those." He claims my uncle gave him a set of three such pliers, made by Husky Tools, for Christmas last year or maybe the year before. As he described them to me, the heads actually can be rotated from zero to ninety degrees offset. He was only able to find 2 of the 3, and not the one I need (long nose)... plus he lives a thousand miles away, so borrowing them is not convenient. This was a good lead, though, so I searched Home Depot's site, and also Google'd for such Husky pliers. Both failed to turn up anything. Anyone know where I can buy such a tool? Thanks. -- David Hillman _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/arvidj at visi.com From tputland at charter.net Tue Dec 27 18:46:34 2011 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 20:46:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? Message-ID: <3b3a895f.71498.1348258f1a4.Webtop.44@charter.net> Yea, I'd say a photo from your dad would be a good starging point since what you describe sounds different than the starting pics Arvid posted. Very curious now in WI Tim On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Shannah Miller wrote: > Can he/you send a photo? The closest thing I've been able > to find is some pliers we have by Kobalt. > > Shannah > > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 1:51 PM, David Hillman > wrote: > >> I'm trying to find a set of pliers, that I'm fairly sure exist. >> What I >> need are pliers with the handle and jaws offset by 90 degrees. In >> other >> words, if the handle was oriented horizontally, the jaws would open >> or >> close vertically. >> >> I was on the phone with my father over the Holiday, telling him, >> and he >> says "Oh I've got a set of those." He claims my uncle gave him a set >> of >> three such pliers, made by Husky Tools, for Christmas last year or >> maybe >> the year before. As he described them to me, the heads actually can >> be >> rotated from zero to ninety degrees offset. He was only able to find >> 2 of >> the 3, and not the one I need (long nose)... plus he lives a thousand >> miles >> away, so borrowing them is not convenient. >> >> This was a good lead, though, so I searched Home Depot's site, and >> also >> Google'd for such Husky pliers. Both failed to turn up anything. >> >> Anyone know where I can buy such a tool? >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> David Hillman >> ______________________________**_________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: >> http://www.team.net/donate.**html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/**options/shop-talk/** >> >> shannahquilts at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Dec 27 20:12:13 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 22:12:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Todd Walke wrote: > Trying to picture what you're describing. > How about 90-degree needle-nose pliers? Something like this: > > Is that close? To be honest, I didn't think the tool I'm looking for existed, because I can't even envision how they'd work. Until, that is, I described it to my father, and he claimed to have one ;) After seeing how many different ways people on this list interpreted my description, I'm considering the possibility that my father also misunderstood me, and doesn't really have what I'm looking for. I have asked him for a picture, but no one should hold their breath, despite him being a professional photographer for several decades. Through the miracle of Google Sketchup, I just made this picture to show what I'm thinking of... http://planet-torque.com/misc/plier.png The better news is, I was able to find that a specific little plastic part on my '86 is still available from Toyota, for $2. So I just broke the one on the car removing it by force, and don't necessarily need this tool anymore. Doesn't mean I don't want one for next time, though. Thanks. -- David Hillman From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 22:25:35 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 00:25:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <4EFAA84F.4010509@gmail.com> I'm having a hard time imagining how a set of pliers like that would work. You'd need a cam to offset the force 90 degrees, but you'd also need something stationary for the cam to rest on. I'd like to see the pics of your dad's set(s). Having said all that, any tutorials you have on how you got to be just...incredible at Sketchup would be much appreciated. I've followed all the Google ones and even if I could produce that (I can't) it'd take me months to even get close. On 12/27/2011 10:12 PM, David Hillman wrote: > > > http://planet-torque.com/misc/plier.png From bk13 at earthlink.net Wed Dec 28 09:28:41 2011 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 08:28:41 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <4EFB43B9.70509@earthlink.net> For the future, if it is not a tight fit, another option is a drop of superglue on the end of a pencil eraser. Pull out the piece and snap it off the eraser. Just keep in mind that superglue will wick up threads, so only use a little. This idea can also be used to install a nut where you can't reach. I first used it to put nuts on small bolts holding a transformer in a very tight case (couldn't use a nut driver). When I tightened the bolt enough, the glue bond to the eraser broke. I then used a flat screwdriver between the nut and transformer to fully tighten the screw in the nut. It is always a pleasant surprise to find a part is easily available at a reasonable price. This happened with a TR6 brake master cylinder rebuild kit. Moss and TRF were either back ordered or at a very high price. I was at NAPA and asked. They said, "sorry, bad news". I thought that meant it wasn't available, but to them, bad news was I would have to wait two days and come back. The kit was also half the price. It never hurts to check with a traditional source for parts. Brian On 12/27/2011 7:12 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Todd Walke wrote: >> Trying to picture what you're describing. >> How about 90-degree needle-nose pliers? Something like this: >> >> >> Is that close? > > To be honest, I didn't think the tool I'm looking for existed, > because I can't even envision how they'd work. Until, that is, I > described it to my father, and he claimed to have one ;) > > After seeing how many different ways people on this list > interpreted my description, I'm considering the possibility that my > father also misunderstood me, and doesn't really have what I'm looking > for. I have asked him for a picture, but no one should hold their > breath, despite him being a professional photographer for several > decades. > > Through the miracle of Google Sketchup, I just made this picture to > show what I'm thinking of... > > http://planet-torque.com/misc/plier.png > > The better news is, I was able to find that a specific little > plastic part on my '86 is still available from Toyota, for $2. So I > just broke the one on the car removing it by force, and don't > necessarily need this tool anymore. Doesn't mean I don't want one for > next time, though. > > Thanks. > > -- > David Hillman > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From hillman at planet-torque.com Wed Dec 28 09:48:48 2011 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:48:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: <4EFAA84F.4010509@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com> <4EFAA84F.4010509@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Scott wrote: > I'm having a hard time imagining how a set of pliers like that would work. > You'd need a cam to offset the force 90 degrees, but you'd also need > something stationary for the cam to rest on. I'd like to see the pics of your > dad's set(s). I can't either... I was pretty stunned when my father claimed to have one. > Having said all that, any tutorials you have on how you got to be > just...incredible at Sketchup would be much appreciated. I've followed all > the Google ones and even if I could produce that (I can't) it'd take me > months to even get close. Actually, I suck with Sketchup... all I did was download a "plier" object, and rotate the jaws ninety degrees. I too am blown away by the amount of time some people must be spending with that application. -- David Hillman From bobkegel at comcast.net Wed Dec 28 10:45:17 2011 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 09:45:17 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8D41376617324E7CABF3F472A18B464A@robertve2wc7wm> I have a SOG Paratool http://sogknives.com/store/S31.html with adjustable angle pliers. Not its best feature. Bob K From phoenix722 at comcast.net Wed Dec 28 11:42:59 2011 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:42:59 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net><4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net><4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net><6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net><5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com><4EFAA84F.4010509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <596994EE940D46E886C4E248D06D029E@Mike> I have seen the needle-nosed pliers with the "needles" bent 900, although I don't have one. But I do have a pair of forceps that are similar. They can even be locked closed. Originally got them to work on small models, but they could be used anywhere. Not as sturdy as a regular pliers, but able to reach into small areas. Mike Sinclair From phoenix722 at comcast.net Wed Dec 28 12:23:37 2011 From: phoenix722 at comcast.net (Mike Sinclair) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:23:37 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net><4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net><4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net><6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net><5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com><4EFAA84F.4010509@gmail.com> <596994EE940D46E886C4E248D06D029E@Mike> Message-ID: <41DA045A58494776A93BD4395EDAD8D8@Mike> Well, I guess the server doesn't understand my " 248" for degrees, next time I'll just say 90 degrees. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Sinclair To: Shop Talk Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? I have seen the needle-nosed pliers with the "needles" bent 900, although I don't have one. But I do have a pair of forceps that are similar. They can even be locked closed. Originally got them to work on small models, but they could be used anywhere. Not as sturdy as a regular pliers, but able to reach into small areas. Mike Sinclair _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/phoenix722 at comcast.net From pethier at comcast.net Wed Dec 28 13:46:34 2011 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:46:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: <41DA045A58494776A93BD4395EDAD8D8@Mike> Message-ID: <1969299259.18030.1325105194683.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> If it ain't on an ASCI keyboard, I don't type it. :-) Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UBW "uncle jack", Sapphire Blue 2004 Suburban 8.1, Sport Red, the only automatic of the bunch 2005 Lotus Elise, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4, Berry Red pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://www.mnautox.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Sinclair" > To: "Shop Talk" > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 1:23:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? > Well, I guess the server doesn't understand my " 248" for > degrees, next > time I'll just say 90 degrees. From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 14:49:10 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:49:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: <1969299259.18030.1325105194683.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1969299259.18030.1325105194683.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4EFB8ED6.8070209@gmail.com> I never figured out how to even work the Alt-number buttons. Seeing someone get a 'degree' sign into a plain-text email elicits in me a reaction that must be similar to early man's response to fire. I good at computer really! On 12/28/2011 3:46 PM, pethier at comcast.net wrote: > If it ain't on an ASCI keyboard, I don't type it. :-) From TR3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Dec 28 18:31:13 2011 From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 17:31:13 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: <41DA045A58494776A93BD4395EDAD8D8@Mike> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net><4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net><4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net><6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net><5.1.0.14.2.20111227154112.00bfb048@mail.avvanta.com><4EFAA84F.4010509@gmail.com><596994EE940D46E886C4E248D06D029E@Mike> <41DA045A58494776A93BD4395EDAD8D8@Mike> Message-ID: <00bd01ccc5c9$8dd3ad20$0201a8c0@randall> > Well, I guess the server doesn't understand my " 248" > for degrees, Yup, only "7 bit" ASCII, by design and intent. Not all computers follow the PC standard for characters above 127 (nor even all character sets for the PC). -- Randall From eric at megageek.com Wed Dec 28 20:22:08 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:22:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business Message-ID: OK, this long term unemployment is killing me. So, I'm looking to start my own business (or at least something that is scalable incase I get a real job full time somewhere else.) I got to thinking that car detailing would be perfect. I already have the shop space and everything needed. I started looking on the internets *>) and I found a ton of generic information. Within that, there are some good nuggets, but I'm still wading through it all. But I'd figure to ask here as part of my due diligence. Does anyone here run a car detailing biz (or have ever, or worked at one?) Any feedback? Any other ideas? Or, is there something you would like to see a car detailer offer (besides discounts for LBCs) 8>) Thanks in advance. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 20:51:00 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:51:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EFBE3A4.9010708@gmail.com> I have a client that owns one. I can fill you in on the generalities, at least as they pertain to the business locally, which may or may not be helpful to you there. What do you want to know? Scott On 12/28/2011 10:22 PM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, this long term unemployment is killing me. > > So, I'm looking to start my own business (or at least something that is > scalable incase I get a real job full time somewhere else.) > > I got to thinking that car detailing would be perfect. I already have the > shop space and everything needed. > > I started looking on the internets *>) and I found a ton of generic > information. Within that, there are some good nuggets, but I'm still > wading through it all. > > But I'd figure to ask here as part of my due diligence. > > Does anyone here run a car detailing biz (or have ever, or worked at one?) > > Any feedback? Any other ideas? > > Or, is there something you would like to see a car detailer offer (besides > discounts for LBCs) 8>) > > Thanks in advance. From mark at bradakis.com Wed Dec 28 21:33:12 2011 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:33:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> Are there a bazillion folks that pass by your place every day? Will they come to you or would it make more sense for you to go to them? mjb. From eric at megageek.com Thu Dec 29 05:52:03 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 07:52:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Yes, I have pretty good traffic, in a very rich area. I would want to them to come to my place, so I can be sure that I have everything I need (water, power, etc.) What do you guys think about a 'full service' detailer. I would do oil changes, minor repairs (bulbs, small dents/nicks) then the full detail. Do you think that would be a real draw for people? Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Mark J Bradakis Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 12/28/2011 23:38 To shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business Are there a bazillion folks that pass by your place every day? Will they come to you or would it make more sense for you to go to them? mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From dreinsch at swbell.net Thu Dec 29 06:43:54 2011 From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:43:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1325166234.46248.YahooMailClassic@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sounds like you need to look into zoning and business permits, to me. Unless you're outside the city limits. Dwade --- On Thu, 12/29/11, eric at megageek.com wrote: From: eric at megageek.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 6:52 AM Yes, I have pretty good traffic, in a very rich area. I would want to them to come to my place, so I can be sure that I have everything I need (water, power, etc.) What do you guys think about a 'full service' detailer. I would do oil changes, minor repairs (bulbs, small dents/nicks) then the full detail. Do you think that would be a real draw for people? Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Mark J Bradakis Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 12/28/2011 23:38 To shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business Are there a bazillion folks that pass by your place every day? Will they come to you or would it make more sense for you to go to them? mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dreinsch at swbell.net From mistertwo at sbcglobal.net Thu Dec 29 08:23:16 2011 From: mistertwo at sbcglobal.net (Rand E) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 07:23:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <1325166234.46248.YahooMailClassic@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1325166234.46248.YahooMailClassic@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1325172196.66106.YahooMailNeo@web82404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don't forget business insurance. Just in case that little old lady who you just changed her oil for says you didn't put enough oil in her car and now it needs a new engine and wants you to pay for it. Or the power window quits working while you are detailing/dent-repairing their car. (This happened to a guy I work with who does PDR on the side.) Randy From: Dwade Reinsch >To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net; eric at megageek.com >Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 7:43 AM >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business > >Sounds like you need to look into zoning and business permits, to me. Unless >you're outside the city limits. > >Dwade > >--- On Thu, 12/29/11, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > >From: eric at megageek.com >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business >To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net >Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 6:52 AM > > >Yes, I have pretty good traffic, in a very rich area. > >I would want to them to come to my place, so I can be sure that I have >everything I need (water, power, etc.) > >What do you guys think about a 'full service' detailer. I would do oil >changes, minor repairs (bulbs, small dents/nicks) then the full detail. Do >you think that would be a real draw for people? > >Eric P >"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational >being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph >Waldo Emerson > > > > >Mark J Bradakis >Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net >12/28/2011 23:38 > >To >shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net >cc > >Subject >Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business > > > > > > >Are there a bazillion folks that pass by your place every day? >Will they come to you or would it make more sense for you to >go to them? > >mjb. >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dreinsch at swbell.net >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net From kennedybc at comcast.net Thu Dec 29 09:57:16 2011 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian Kennedy) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 08:57:16 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FF9DA8B-3C76-40D0-8EC6-CFCE5217CDD1@comcast.net> Eric, for what it's worth, one guy I used to use hooked up with a local car wash. You might consider talking to them to make an arrangement to get you customers. Brian K On Dec 29, 2011, at 4:52 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote: > Yes, I have pretty good traffic, in a very rich area. > > I would want to them to come to my place, so I can be sure that I have > everything I need (water, power, etc.) > > What do you guys think about a 'full service' detailer. I would do oil > changes, minor repairs (bulbs, small dents/nicks) then the full detail. Do > you think that would be a real draw for people? > > Eric P > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > > > > > Mark J Bradakis > Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > 12/28/2011 23:38 > > To > shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net > cc > > Subject > Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business > > > > > > > Are there a bazillion folks that pass by your place every day? > Will they come to you or would it make more sense for you to > go to them? > > mjb. From shannahquilts at gmail.com Thu Dec 29 10:46:04 2011 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:46:04 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 4:52 AM, wrote: > Yes, I have pretty good traffic, in a very rich area. > > I would want to them to come to my place, so I can be sure that I have > everything I need (water, power, etc.) > > What do you guys think about a 'full service' detailer. I would do oil > changes, minor repairs (bulbs, small dents/nicks) then the full detail. Do > you think that would be a real draw for people? > > It would be, for me. Remembering to make appointments is really hard for me, as I'm getting older. Being able to make one appointment to get both my oil changed and also my car detailed would be a huge draw. I'm guessing that people who are really busy would be very interested, as well. Since you have everything already, this would be a low-cost startup, and honestly, I think it's well worth trying. I think you're on the right track by asking for input. All of the high-volume places I see around here who do detailing have a washer and dryer for their towels. One seems to use blue towels for drying off water only, and green towels for using with detailing products. I think the rationale is that they can just throw the blue ones in the dryer (or spin cycle of the washer) between cars rather than using up all the water to keep rewashing them. I don't know if it's worth going to that much trouble for a one or two person shop, though. The other suggestion I have is if you have questions about how you want your work flow to go, in terms of what's set up where, you could always practice on friends' cars (or your own) until you get things set up the way you want. Shannah From strovato at optonline.net Thu Dec 29 11:51:18 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 13:51:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I have no idea what your place looks like, or what kind of impression it makes on passing motorists. I would think that would be an important factor if you're really expecting passing motorists to just stop in. Your typical Mercedes/Porsche/BMW driver isn't going to turn down the dirt driveway and go around back behind the barn just because they see a "detailing here" sign. I think the drop-off process is a big pain for most people if they have to arrange a ride. The one guy I used to know who did detailing on a small scale would pick up the customer's car. It worked like this. You called him and made an appointment. He came to where you work, left his car there and took yours. Then he brought it back all shiny before it was time to go home. You just had to meet him outside, or at the front desk or whatever to transfer keys and pay him. It was very convenient and he didn't have to deal with customers at his house. Word of this guy''s services spread quickly within the company. Good luck with the venture. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From eric at megageek.com Thu Dec 29 13:18:08 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:18:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: This is one of the models I want to use. I pick it up and bring it back. See, all these ideas are what I need to get an idea of what I'm getting into. Thanks to everyone. Keep them coming. Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Steven Trovato Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 12/29/2011 01:53 PM To shop-talk at autox.team.net cc Subject Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business I have no idea what your place looks like, or what kind of impression it makes on passing motorists. I would think that would be an important factor if you're really expecting passing motorists to just stop in. Your typical Mercedes/Porsche/BMW driver isn't going to turn down the dirt driveway and go around back behind the barn just because they see a "detailing here" sign. I think the drop-off process is a big pain for most people if they have to arrange a ride. The one guy I used to know who did detailing on a small scale would pick up the customer's car. It worked like this. You called him and made an appointment. He came to where you work, left his car there and took yours. Then he brought it back all shiny before it was time to go home. You just had to meet him outside, or at the front desk or whatever to transfer keys and pay him. It was very convenient and he didn't have to deal with customers at his house. Word of this guy''s services spread quickly within the company. Good luck with the venture. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Dec 29 13:40:15 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:40:15 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> I dunno, man...there's absolutely NO WAY I want to drive someone else's car. Well, I'd *like* to tool around in someone's Ferrari...but I don't want to 1) pay to fix it when my right foot overtakes my frontal lobe, or 2) carry that kind of insurance. On 12/29/2011 1:51 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > I have no idea what your place looks like, or what kind of impression > it makes on passing motorists. I would think that would be an > important factor if you're really expecting passing motorists to just > stop in. Your typical Mercedes/Porsche/BMW driver isn't going to turn > down the dirt driveway and go around back behind the barn just because > they see a "detailing here" sign. I think the drop-off process is a > big pain for most people if they have to arrange a ride. The one guy > I used to know who did detailing on a small scale would pick up the > customer's car. It worked like this. You called him and made an > appointment. He came to where you work, left his car there and took > yours. Then he brought it back all shiny before it was time to go > home. You just had to meet him outside, or at the front desk or > whatever to transfer keys and pay him. It was very convenient and he > didn't have to deal with customers at his house. Word of this guy''s > services spread quickly within the company. Good luck with the venture. From 57healey at gmail.com Thu Dec 29 13:43:10 2011 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:43:10 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> Message-ID: Many of the guys around here come and do it on site at you house or office. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Scott Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.netDate: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:40:15 To: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business I dunno, man...there's absolutely NO WAY I want to drive someone else's car. Well, I'd *like* to tool around in someone's Ferrari...but I don't want to 1) pay to fix it when my right foot overtakes my frontal lobe, or 2) carry that kind of insurance. On 12/29/2011 1:51 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > I have no idea what your place looks like, or what kind of impression > it makes on passing motorists. I would think that would be an > important factor if you're really expecting passing motorists to just > stop in. Your typical Mercedes/Porsche/BMW driver isn't going to turn > down the dirt driveway and go around back behind the barn just because > they see a "detailing here" sign. I think the drop-off process is a > big pain for most people if they have to arrange a ride. The one guy > I used to know who did detailing on a small scale would pick up the > customer's car. It worked like this. You called him and made an > appointment. He came to where you work, left his car there and took > yours. Then he brought it back all shiny before it was time to go > home. You just had to meet him outside, or at the front desk or > whatever to transfer keys and pay him. It was very convenient and he > didn't have to deal with customers at his house. Word of this guy''s > services spread quickly within the company. Good luck with the venture. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/57healey at gmail.com From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com Thu Dec 29 13:46:07 2011 From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:46:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <2003924699-1325191393-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-890391041-@b12.c24.bise6.blackberry> References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> <2003924699-1325191393-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-890391041-@b12.c24.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <4EFCD18F.6070102@gmail.com> That's what the guy I know does. Drives to them with a pickup hauling a huge tank of water. I'm not sure I like that idea either just as he spends a ton on gas. Water's heavy. I've always thought the better plan would be to deal with an office park to use their hose taps. On 12/29/2011 3:43 PM, Patton Dickson wrote: > Many of the guys around here come and do it on site at you house or office. From strovato at optonline.net Thu Dec 29 14:01:05 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:01:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0LWZ00FSQH39GAS0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> The thing is, driving or not, there is a major liability issue that has to be addressed. There are a thousand things that could go wrong resulting in damage to a customer's car. Some of them may have nothing at all to do with you, but you'll get blamed anyway. Any mechanic will tell you that anything that goes wrong shortly after you work on a car will be blamed on what you did. There seem to be two approaches. The first involves ignoring the issue and hoping that nothing bad happens. The second involves sitting down with an insurance agent and figuring out what kind of insurance you need and what it would cost for different types of business operations. Years ago, I was rear-ended by a Mercedes salesman driving a customer's car in for service. Dealership insurance company said it wasn't their problem because he wasn't doing this in an official capacity, just doing a favor for someone. At 03:40 PM 12/29/2011, Scott wrote: >I dunno, man...there's absolutely NO WAY I want to drive someone else's car. > >Well, I'd *like* to tool around in someone's Ferrari...but I don't >want to 1) pay to fix it when my right foot overtakes my frontal >lobe, or 2) carry that kind of insurance. From marka at maracing.com Thu Dec 29 14:45:54 2011 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 16:45:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, eric at megageek.com wrote: > This is one of the models I want to use. I pick it up and bring it back. To me, this seems like a recipie for problems. Or at least a recepie for making darn sure you have very good insurance to cover you when you wreck your client's six figure ego-mobile. Most detailers I've heard of follow one of two models: 1) A brick & motor shop. You drop the car off, they detail it. 2) Mobile detailing. Often they require power & water to be avaliable, sometimes they'll do it with a generator and a big water tank in their truck. They go to the vehicle and detail in place. Issues here are weather dependency & client having available resources. Mark From shannahquilts at gmail.com Thu Dec 29 14:54:32 2011 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 13:54:32 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think the liability issues are worth considering. I think that you could minimize the problems by getting customers by referral and/or carrying insurance on yourself. I had that at one time, and it covered me to drive anything I had a license for. It was more expensive than regular insurance, but not more than double. Or, you can self-insure. We do that for earthquake insurance. We discovered that paying for earthquake insurance on our house was a lot more expensive than the chance of risk. So, we (over time) put enough in the bank to cover our house, and if we get an earthquake, we're our own insurance. It was cheaper than the "official" insurance. Shannah On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Mark Andy wrote: > Howdy, > > > On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, eric at megageek.com wrote: > >> This is one of the models I want to use. I pick it up and bring it back. >> > > To me, this seems like a recipie for problems. Or at least a recepie for > making darn sure you have very good insurance to cover you when you wreck > your client's six figure ego-mobile. > > Most detailers I've heard of follow one of two models: > > 1) A brick & motor shop. You drop the car off, they detail it. > > 2) Mobile detailing. Often they require power & water to be avaliable, > sometimes they'll do it with a generator and a big water tank in their > truck. They go to the vehicle and detail in place. Issues here are > weather dependency & client having available resources. > > Mark > > ______________________________**_________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/**options/shop-talk/** > shannahquilts at gmail.com From mark at bradakis.com Thu Dec 29 21:25:53 2011 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 21:25:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EFD3D51.80400@bradakis.com> Scott wrote: > I dunno, man...there's absolutely NO WAY I want to drive someone > else's car. > > Well, I'd *like* to tool around in someone's Ferrari...but I don't > want to 1) pay to fix it when my right foot overtakes my frontal lobe, > or 2) carry that kind of insurance. > Not a Ferrari, but ... http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=18580451 mjb. From rolds at plausa.com Fri Dec 30 07:04:48 2011 From: rolds at plausa.com (Ron Olds) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 14:04:48 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Which Generator to Buy Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I am once more going out to the list for your knowledge. I am looking to buy a portable generator. My last one has a burnt out stator and parts are no longer available. It is a Coleman Powermate Maxa 5000 ER with a Tecumseh 10 hp engine. If anyone has a good stator or is in need of a unit with a burnt out stator (the engine runs great and has hardly been used) lets talk. What do you recommend as a brand and or model? I was looking for something in the 8000 watt range. The generator repair shop which checked out my old unit recommended Generac as a good brand to go with. Looking at their generators they offer so many different types in the same power range. Appreciate any advice you can give me. Happy New Year, Ronald Olds Sales Manager Plasser American Corporation PO Box 5464 2001 Myers Road Chesapeake, VA 23324-0464 Phone (757) 543-3526 Cell (630) 240-0818 Fax (757) 494-7186 The information contained in this e-mail including any attachments may be proprietary, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the addressee. Any unauthorized distribution, disclosure or any other such use is strictly prohibited. Furthermore, any reviews, semination or copying by anyone other than the intended recipient is expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and destroy all copies of the original transmittal. From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Fri Dec 30 08:06:19 2011 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:06:19 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Which Generator to Buy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just wished to voice support for the Generac brand--a top quality product throughout. US-made, better built than they need to be, parts available, etc. Not cheap, but well worth the price. I have only had mine for a couple years, but zero problems so far. Best, Doug (mobile) -----Original Message----- From: Ron Olds Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 14:04:48 To: shop-talk at autox.team.net; Triumphs (triumphs at autox.team.net); mgs at autox.team.net; mg-t at autox.team.net; 6pack at autox.team.net<6pack at autox.team.net> Subject: [Shop-talk] Which Generator to Buy Hello Everyone, I am once more going out to the list for your knowledge. I am looking to buy a portable generator. My last one has a burnt out stator and parts are no longer available. It is a Coleman Powermate Maxa 5000 ER with a Tecumseh 10 hp engine. If anyone has a good stator or is in need of a unit with a burnt out stator (the engine runs great and has hardly been used) lets talk. What do you recommend as a brand and or model? I was looking for something in the 8000 watt range. The generator repair shop which checked out my old unit recommended Generac as a good brand to go with. Looking at their generators they offer so many different types in the same power range. Appreciate any advice you can give me. Happy New Year, Ronald Olds Sales Manager Plasser American Corporation PO Box 5464 2001 Myers Road Chesapeake, VA 23324-0464 Phone (757) 543-3526 Cell (630) 240-0818 Fax (757) 494-7186 The information contained in this e-mail including any attachments may be proprietary, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the addressee. Any unauthorized distribution, disclosure or any other such use is strictly prohibited. Furthermore, any reviews, semination or copying by anyone other than the intended recipient is expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and destroy all copies of the original transmittal. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From jhassall at blacksburg.net Fri Dec 30 08:14:51 2011 From: jhassall at blacksburg.net (J.C. Hassall) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 10:14:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <20111229204737.A7EBD1878C2@autox.team.net> References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> <20111229204737.A7EBD1878C2@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <4EFDD56B.2010201@blacksburg.net> > I dunno, man...there's absolutely NO WAY I want to drive someone else's car. > > Well, I'd *like* to tool around in someone's Ferrari...but I don't want > to 1) pay to fix it when my right foot overtakes my frontal lobe, or 2) > carry that kind of insurance. > A buddy of mine in high school worked on weekends for an Italian fellow who was a cracker jack mechanic and had a sterling reputation. My buddy talked him into letting him drive a customer car "around the block". Short story long, Bill hit some gravel and slid into a telephone pole. Of course the mechanic was livid, as he saw his reputation go screaming into the dumper. After many calls and cajoling, Bill managed to talk the owner into selling him the car without ever learning of the new body style. Bill and his parents took out a loan to pay for the car. He parked it in a local barn and we'd go look at it now and again. He had plans to restore it, but who knows what happened to it. It sure screwed up his future, as he had to postpone college to pay off the loan. -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go From fishplate at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 13:27:22 2011 From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:27:22 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Which Generator to Buy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Ron Olds wrote: > What do you recommend as a brand and or model? I was looking for something in > the 8000 watt range. We bought a few Kubota GL series generators some years back, and tortured the heck out of 'em. Ran them constantly for two or three weeks at a time, shutting down only long enough to change the oil. Thoroughly satisfactory. They may not be cheap, though -- I've no idea what a Generac costs, but here's the first site I came across for the GLs: http://www.hardydiesel.com/kubota-generators/kubota-lowboy-2.html Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. From al at bighealey.org Tue Dec 27 15:51:50 2011 From: al at bighealey.org (Al Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:51:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool APB: Rotating head pliers? In-Reply-To: References: <4cd656b.75bff.1346627229a.Webtop.47@charter.net> <4EF3411F.5010005@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20111222100139.04e07960@cox.net> Message-ID: <3b824613-860b-4e51-9e80-b8b2bb42a975@email.android.com> I have a set of needle-nose 90 degree pliers from harbor freight... Maybe try there. -- Sent from my 'Droid. Please excuse my brevity. David Hillman wrote: I'm trying to find a set of pliers, that I'm fairly sure exist. What I need are pliers with the handle and jaws offset by 90 degrees. In other words, if the handle was oriented horizontally, the jaws would open or close vertically. I was on the phone with my father over the Holiday, telling him, and he says "Oh I've got a set of those." He claims my uncle gave him a set of three such pliers, made by Husky Tools, for Christmas last year or maybe the year before. As he described them to me, the heads actually can be rotated from zero to ninety degrees offset. He was only able to find 2 of the 3, and not the one I need (long nose)... plus he lives a thousand miles away, so borrowing them is not convenient. This was a good lead, though, so I searched Home Depot's site, and also Google'd for such Husky pliers. Both failed to turn up anything. Anyone know where I can buy such a tool? Thanks. -- David Hillman _____________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/al at bighealey.org From shannahquilts at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 17:41:38 2011 From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:41:38 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <4EFDD56B.2010201@blacksburg.net> References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> <20111229204737.A7EBD1878C2@autox.team.net> <4EFDD56B.2010201@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: Well, Eric doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would go for a joyride in a customer's car. There's also insurance for the rare situation in which he might get in an accident. Yeah, the Italian fellow made an error by letting a highschooler drive a customer's car. I don't think this means that doing pick ups and drop offs of customer cars is a bad idea. Shannah On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 7:14 AM, J.C. Hassall wrote: > I dunno, man...there's absolutely NO WAY I want to drive someone else's >> car. >> >> Well, I'd *like* to tool around in someone's Ferrari...but I don't want >> to 1) pay to fix it when my right foot overtakes my frontal lobe, or 2) >> carry that kind of insurance. >> >> > A buddy of mine in high school worked on weekends for an Italian fellow > who was a cracker jack mechanic and had a sterling reputation. My buddy > talked him into letting him drive a customer car "around the block". Short > story long, Bill hit some gravel and slid into a telephone pole. Of course > the mechanic was livid, as he saw his reputation go screaming into the > dumper. After many calls and cajoling, Bill managed to talk the owner into > selling him the car without ever learning of the new body style. Bill and > his parents took out a loan to pay for the car. He parked it in a local > barn and we'd go look at it now and again. He had plans to restore it, but > who knows what happened to it. It sure screwed up his future, as he had to > postpone college to pay off the loan. > > -- > Jim Hassall > Blacksburg VA > '63 TR4 in autox preparation > 99% finished, 90% to go > > ______________________________**_________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/**options/shop-talk/** > shannahquilts at gmail.com From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org Fri Dec 30 10:06:20 2011 From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 12:06:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Which Generator to Buy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm also looking for a generator all of my research has pointed to Generac being a good brand. The local small engine shop recommended them (and Honda for way more $) and my electrician said he has installed dozens via transfer panels without issue. He did say to confirm that the generator is actually putting out 120V/220V max since he had an issue with another brand with a faulty voltage regulator (new out of the box). One of my coworkers has an interesting setup: 15000W v-twin bought used of Craigslist for $1800, then he sent the carburetor away to have it converted to natural gas. He has it "interlocked" into his panel such that the main to the street has to be off before the generator feed breaker can be on; and vice versa. He says he has over two hundred hours on it like this running of his BBQ gas line in the backyard. I don't think I'll implement such as setup at our current house, but I thought it was interesting. Some more details below (quoted from him). - Ian ====================== I'm attaching a couple of links that will get you started on the generator trek. As you do you exploration let me know if you need any info as I've done a ton of research. You'll need an interlock kit, interlock breaker, inlet box (depends on your wattage), nat gas conversion kit, nat gas hose, high amp generator cord, heavy duty electrical wire to main box (I needed 6/3 romex for a 50amp service). Main box interlock kit http://www.interlockkit.com/ Natural gas conversion kit for v-twin generators http://www.ebay.com/itm/390367819646?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984. m1423.l2649 -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Olds Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:05 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Which Generator to Buy What do you recommend as a brand and or model? I was looking for something in the 8000 watt range. The generator repair shop which checked out my old unit recommended Generac as a good brand to go with. Looking at their generators they offer so many different types in the same power range. From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Dec 30 11:08:26 2011 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 13:08:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car detailing business In-Reply-To: <4EFDD56B.2010201@blacksburg.net> References: <4EFBED88.9040907@bradakis.com> <0LWZ008KRB5SY9S0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4EFCD02F.10602@gmail.com> <20111229204737.A7EBD1878C2@autox.team.net> <4EFDD56B.2010201@blacksburg.net> Message-ID: If you pick up and deliver the cars, you will be spending 50% of your time doing non-revenue-producing stuff. Doug On Dec 30, 2011 10:15 AM, "J.C. Hassall" wrote: > I dunno, man...there's absolutely NO WAY I want to drive someone else's >> car. >> >> Well, I'd *like* to tool around in someone's Ferrari...but I don't want >> to 1) pay to fix it when my right foot overtakes my frontal lobe, or 2) >> carry that kind of insurance. >> >> > A buddy of mine in high school worked on weekends for an Italian fellow > who was a cracker jack mechanic and had a sterling reputation. My buddy > talked him into letting him drive a customer car "around the block". Short > story long, Bill hit some gravel and slid into a telephone pole. Of course > the mechanic was livid, as he saw his reputation go screaming into the > dumper. After many calls and cajoling, Bill managed to talk the owner into > selling him the car without ever learning of the new body style. Bill and > his parents took out a loan to pay for the car. He parked it in a local > barn and we'd go look at it now and again. He had plans to restore it, but > who knows what happened to it. It sure screwed up his future, as he had to > postpone college to pay off the loan. > > -- > Jim Hassall > Blacksburg VA > '63 TR4 in autox preparation > 99% finished, 90% to go > ______________________________**_________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/** > options/shop-talk/doug@**dougbraun.com From eric at megageek.com Sat Dec 31 08:20:19 2011 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:20:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Anyone want a model kit? Message-ID: OK, I fell into a bunch of car model kits from a lurker here and I figured I'd offer them to anyone that may want them. Please note, I'm not sure if all the pieces are there in any of these kits. But, since I'm offering them for free (just pay the postage) you can't go wrong. These are all kits that are from about the '80s to the best of my knowledge. Some are partially assembled. Also, there are 5 kits that are boxes only(listed separately). I figure some people may want a box to match a car they have. The models I have are... Dodge off road pickup camper with motorcycle 1/25 1975 Dodge van with motorcycle 1/25 Ferrari 250 1/32 Mazda RX-7 1/24 Maserati Indy 1/32 Mustang Cobra "Wild Breed"1/25 '54 Chevy Panel "Street Demon" 1/25 (box has paint overspray on it) '57 Chevrolet Bel Air Convertible 1/16 7/11 Mustang Funny Car 1/24 1926 Mack Bulldog Tank Truck 1/24 (not in original box) "Vantasy" Custom Camper Mustang Cobra 1/24 Alfa Romeo 1/32 MG 1/32 The following are only the boxes... Mustang Cobra Chevy Street Van Jeep Renegade Barracuda w/Custom Boot Wild Willys M38 Jeep (note this is a bigger box and features a wacky cartoon drawing of the jeep.) Let me know if you are interested in any/all of these. Again, I'm not charging at all for them, just pay shipping. Thanks! Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson