From marka at maracing.com  Mon Aug  1 07:18:16 2011
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 09:18:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] battery rebuilders?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108010916270.19145@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

A while back on the list there was something about cordless tool battery 
rebuilders... I'd like to give them a shot with some Milwaukee 18v NiCds.

Google has a few hits, but I'm hoping to find someone whose done it before 
and has recommendations.  I'm most interested in the "adds capacity" 
rebuilds.

Current batteries are 18v, 2.4Ah NiCd

Thanks!

Mark

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Mon Aug  1 07:35:16 2011
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 08:35:16 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] battery rebuilders?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108010916270.19145@thunder.banklogic.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108010916270.19145@thunder.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <5EB14EAC121A41539401D76D6098E37C@OwnerPC>

Mark   I have a box full of (12) Dewalts, Craftsman and Makitas (from work) 
I'm about to send off to Primecell
http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm   they rebuild YOUR pack with new cells 
supposedly rated higher than the originals giving 20-30% longer life between 
charges...   can't critique them yet but will report later... you might want 
to give them a look

a typical 12volt (regardless of brand) runs 33.00 for a rebuild or 47.00 for 
an upgrade to NIMH.  best prices I've found for stronger batteries... but 
you need to make sure your charger will charge NIMH.  The will also replace 
latches/repair cases as needed no charge....  their price list is online

no connection with them... and hopefully will be a satisfied customer


later
John

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Andy" <marka at maracing.com>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 8:18 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] battery rebuilders?


> Howdy,
>
> A while back on the list there was something about cordless tool battery 
> rebuilders... I'd like to give them a shot with some Milwaukee 18v NiCds.
>
> Google has a few hits, but I'm hoping to find someone whose done it before 
> and has recommendations.  I'm most interested in the "adds capacity" 
> rebuilds.
>
> Current batteries are 18v, 2.4Ah NiCd
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jniolon at bham.rr.com
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3801 - Release Date: 07/31/11

From arvidj at visi.com  Mon Aug  1 07:55:55 2011
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 08:55:55 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] battery rebuilders?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108010916270.19145@thunder.banklogic.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108010916270.19145@thunder.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <947C8BE4214949799BE0490513A91BC4@HP62011>

I have successfully rebuild two of my Panasonic 15.6 volt NiMH with larger 
capacity batteries and other than it was a little tough to get the case back 
together it all went well.

I was unsuccessful rebuilding my Hitachi 12 volt NiCd battery. The 
thermistor either was bad to begin with or I killed it while soldering up 
the new battery pack. The charger requires information from the thermistor 
before it will do its thing so I believe I have a good battery pack but no 
way to charge it. I've though about replacing the thermistor but have not 
been able to find the spec on it so I could acquire a replacement and sort 
of lost interest in the whole thing.

Arvid

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Andy
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 8:18 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] battery rebuilders?

Howdy,

A while back on the list there was something about cordless tool battery
rebuilders... I'd like to give them a shot with some Milwaukee 18v NiCds.

Google has a few hits, but I'm hoping to find someone whose done it before
and has recommendations.  I'm most interested in the "adds capacity"
rebuilds.

Current batteries are 18v, 2.4Ah NiCd

Thanks!

Mark
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/arvidj at visi.com

From bottorff25 at verizon.net  Mon Aug  1 07:58:49 2011
From: bottorff25 at verizon.net (bottorff25 at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 08:58:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] battery rebuilders?
Message-ID: <31981144.193992.1312207129499.JavaMail.root@vms170025>


From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com  Mon Aug  1 08:36:04 2011
From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 10:36:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] battery rebuilders?
In-Reply-To: <5EB14EAC121A41539401D76D6098E37C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <20110801143604.YFFBD.82834.root@cdptpa-web01-z02>

One of our local stores had an entire 18V name brand drill on sale including battery and charger for $49 over the weekend, I think the brand was Hitachi.  Certainly has to be better than Ryobi and Harbor Freight.

I have a Ridgid set that came with 18V Lithium batteries.  These batteries were sub par right out of the box.  I need to find out how to send them back for replacement.


> a typical 12volt (regardless of brand) runs 33.00 for a rebuild or 47.00 for 
> an upgrade to NIMH.

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Wed Aug  3 18:13:43 2011
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:13:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>

    Unbelievably to me, I searched the shop-talk archives, and found not 
one mention RapidAir products ( ie RapidAir, Duratec, Maxline ).

http://www.rapidairproducts.com/index.asp

    I refuse to believe that I've found something no here knew about, so... 
comments?  Experience?  I'm considering installing the Maxline (3/4") 
system, because the original RapidAir is only 1/2" and apparently rated 
for 150psi.  I may or may not buy the 175 psi compressor I'm looking at, 
but it seems silly to save a few bucks here.

    Thanks.

--
  David Hillman

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Wed Aug  3 18:37:31 2011
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 20:37:31 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <4E39E9CB.9050208@xxiii.com>

On 8/3/2011 8:13 PM, David Hillman wrote:
> Unbelievably to me, I searched the shop-talk archives, and found not one
> mention RapidAir products ( ie RapidAir, Duratec, Maxline ).

Neat.  I like the termination connectors.  Otherwise, it looks like PEX 
and shark-bite connectors.  If they're not around in a few years, is the 
stuff standard sized, so you could use it with regular fittings?

-Wayne

From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  3 20:05:45 2011
From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 21:05:45 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <SNT123-W29031A206EE4CB84C16E2BE13D0@phx.gbl>

One of the guys on another forum used some stuff called transair and liked
it.http://transair-usa.com/designing_compressed_air_system.phpIt looks just
like the system on the link you posted.

Rich White Central, IL USA
'63 TR3B TCF###L
That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car!

 > Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:13:43 -0400
> From: hillman at planet-torque.com
> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
>
>     Unbelievably to me, I searched the shop-talk archives, and found not
> one mention RapidAir products ( ie RapidAir, Duratec, Maxline ).
>
> http://www.rapidairproducts.com/index.asp
>
>     I refuse to believe that I've found something no here knew about, so...
> comments?  Experience?  I'm considering installing the Maxline (3/4")
> system, because the original RapidAir is only 1/2" and apparently rated
> for 150psi.  I may or may not buy the 175 psi compressor I'm looking at,
> but it seems silly to save a few bucks here.
>
>     Thanks.
>
> --
>   David Hillman
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com

From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  3 20:10:32 2011
From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 21:10:32 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W29031A206EE4CB84C16E2BE13D0@phx.gbl>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>,
	<SNT123-W29031A206EE4CB84C16E2BE13D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT123-W33B002CACBC6B29E02EFCBE13D0@phx.gbl>

When I looked at your link again, I see what you was looking at was flex pipe.
The transair is more like what they call airnet.

Rich White Central, IL USA
'63 TR3B TCF###L
That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car!

 > From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com
> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 21:05:45 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
>
> One of the guys on another forum used some stuff called transair and liked
> it.http://transair-usa.com/designing_compressed_air_system.phpIt looks just
> like the system on the link you posted.
>
> Rich White Central, IL USA
> '63 TR3B TCF###L
> That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car!
>
>  > Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:13:43 -0400
> > From: hillman at planet-torque.com
> > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
> >
> >     Unbelievably to me, I searched the shop-talk archives, and found not
> > one mention RapidAir products ( ie RapidAir, Duratec, Maxline ).
> >
> > http://www.rapidairproducts.com/index.asp
> >
> >     I refuse to believe that I've found something no here knew about,
so...
> > comments?  Experience?  I'm considering installing the Maxline (3/4")
> > system, because the original RapidAir is only 1/2" and apparently rated
> > for 150psi.  I may or may not buy the 175 psi compressor I'm looking at,
> > but it seems silly to save a few bucks here.
> >
> >     Thanks.
> >
> > --
> >   David Hillman
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Wed Aug  3 21:33:03 2011
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 23:33:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W33B002CACBC6B29E02EFCBE13D0@phx.gbl>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>,
	<SNT123-W29031A206EE4CB84C16E2BE13D0@phx.gbl>
	<SNT123-W33B002CACBC6B29E02EFCBE13D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032250290.9767@itonami.pair.com>

On Wed, 3 Aug 2011, Rich White wrote:
> When I looked at your link again, I see what you was looking at was flex pipe.
> The transair is more like what they call airnet.

    I have no objection to rigid pipe, but the cost.  For what they charge 
for Airnet, I could probably just use copper and come out ahead.

    With the flex tube system, on the other hand, I think I can do the 
whole garage for under $150.  A little more if I go with overkill on the 
drops ( and I know this list's position on overkill ;) ).

    For the same size pipe, black pipe isn't very much cheaper in the 
quantity I need... and I think I will use up that savings in my labor 
cost in no time.

    Thanks.

--
  David Hillman

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Thu Aug  4 06:15:49 2011
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 07:15:49 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop stuff and kindle
Message-ID: <95AAE714F34B46F9B7AC100CA6186863@OwnerPC>

My nice son bought me a Kindle reader for my b'day... I'm trying to move some
shop articles..tech stuff on my truck and general documents to it...
Everything is in a pdf format and using my pc I'm copying files from a
directory on the hard drive to the Kindle drive using windows explorer... the
copy seems to work right but when I disconnect the Kindle... none of the files
are there

I have gotten a couple to work which must have involves alchemy cause I can
duplicate the act...

any Kindle guys out there ??? tell me what I'm doing wrong..

thanks
John

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 07:32:40 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:32:40 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032250290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>,
	<SNT123-W29031A206EE4CB84C16E2BE13D0@phx.gbl>
	<SNT123-W33B002CACBC6B29E02EFCBE13D0@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032250290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <4E3A9F78.40806@gmail.com>

On 8/3/2011 11:33 PM, David Hillman wrote:
>    With the flex tube system, on the other hand, I think I can do the 
> whole garage for under $150.  A little more if I go with overkill on 
> the drops ( and I know this list's position on overkill ;) ).

Say it with me now: "There's no kill like overkill!"  :-)

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 07:35:46 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:35:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source for used equipment?
Message-ID: <4E3AA032.1030709@gmail.com>

It's time for a new sandblaster and parts washer.  Before I trundle off 
to Harbor Freight, I thought I'd ask if anyone knows of a good source 
for used, much-better-than-H.F.-quality equipment like that.  I've 
checked eBay and Craigslist and so forth with no luck.  I'd prefer to 
buy it once for more, but used is a lot more palatable.  Any ideas?

Thanks.

Scott

From mistertwo at sbcglobal.net  Thu Aug  4 08:53:51 2011
From: mistertwo at sbcglobal.net (Rand E)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 07:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W29031A206EE4CB84C16E2BE13D0@phx.gbl>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
	<SNT123-W29031A206EE4CB84C16E2BE13D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1312469631.33655.YahooMailNeo@web82405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Northern Tool has their 1/2-inch RapidAir master kit on sale.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200367525_200367525
 
Randy
 
 
> Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:13:43 -0400
> From: hillman at planet-torque.com
> To:
shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
>
>    Unbelievably to me, I searched the shop-talk archives, and found not
>
one mention RapidAir products ( ie RapidAir, Duratec, Maxline ).
>
>
http://www.rapidairproducts.com/index.asp
>
>    I refuse to believe that I've
found something no here knew about, so...
> comments?  Experience?  I'm
considering installing the Maxline (3/4")
> system, because the original
RapidAir is only 1/2" and apparently rated
> for 150psi.  I may or may not buy
the 175 psi compressor I'm looking at,
> but it seems silly to save a few
bucks here.
>
>    Thanks.
>
> --
>  David Hillman

From marka at maracing.com  Thu Aug  4 12:28:54 2011
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:28:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop stuff and kindle
In-Reply-To: <95AAE714F34B46F9B7AC100CA6186863@OwnerPC>
References: <95AAE714F34B46F9B7AC100CA6186863@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108041427040.4236@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011, john niolon wrote:
> My nice son bought me a Kindle reader for my b'day... I'm trying to move some
> shop articles..tech stuff on my truck and general documents to it...
> Everything is in a pdf format and using my pc I'm copying files from a
> directory on the hard drive to the Kindle drive using windows explorer... the
> copy seems to work right but when I disconnect the Kindle... none of the files
> are there
>
> I have gotten a couple to work which must have involves alchemy cause I can
> duplicate the act...
>
> any Kindle guys out there ??? tell me what I'm doing wrong..

I don't have a Kindle, but I seem to recall reading that you need to email 
a pdf to Kindle for conversion, then it gets stuck on your device?

Google and quick scan says I might be remembering right...

http://ebookreadersresource.com/ebook-reader-tutorials/kindle-pdf-conversion/

Mark

From marka at maracing.com  Thu Aug  4 12:34:56 2011
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:34:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108041432200.4236@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

I know absolutely nothing about it, but it seems to be rated at 175psi _at 
70 deg_ with only 140 psi at 140 deg.  Presumably there's enough safety 
factor built in, but in my shop that stuff would see 175psi at as much as 
95 deg if it gets really hot out / due to heat from the compressed air.

Still, its attractive to me from an ease of assembly / modification 
standpoint.  Copper is what I was going to use when I finally upgraded 
from my redneck "manifold and a lot of rubber air lines" system I have 
today.  :-)

Mark

On Wed, 3 Aug 2011, David Hillman wrote:

>   Unbelievably to me, I searched the shop-talk archives, and found not one 
> mention RapidAir products ( ie RapidAir, Duratec, Maxline ).
>
> http://www.rapidairproducts.com/index.asp
>
>   I refuse to believe that I've found something no here knew about, so... 
> comments?  Experience?  I'm considering installing the Maxline (3/4") system, 
> because the original RapidAir is only 1/2" and apparently rated for 150psi. 
> I may or may not buy the 175 psi compressor I'm looking at, but it seems 
> silly to save a few bucks here.
>
>   Thanks.
>
> --
> David Hillman
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Thu Aug  4 12:14:22 2011
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:14:22 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop stuff and kindle
Message-ID: <52515446009F40D28F54AE3922EF8633@OwnerPC>

well... with hints from you guys and internet trolling and experimentation
I've found something that works

in windows explorer
pick a pdf on your pc hard drive
right click it and choose "Copy"

go the Kindle drive and choose the 'Documents" folder
right click on that folder and choose "Paste"

after you move all your files over you can put them in different 'collections
by creating new collections then use the add/remove option under collections

this seems to work... drag and drop did nothing for me but copy/paste seems to
work IF you move them to the Documents collection on the Kindle... nothing
should be this hard...

joihn

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 14:07:12 2011
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:07:12 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108041432200.4236@thunder.banklogic.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1108041432200.4236@thunder.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <CANuE7YC6XDytw_o7NmEKPHqT+PYnMU_6hn-W4AWt+SCofBsDRg@mail.gmail.com>

The page on Northern tool for RapidAir is wrong, it is actually rated at
150psi from -40 F to +180 F.  Check out the borchure.

http://www.northerntool.com/downloads/charts/490500.pdf

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Mark Andy <marka at maracing.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I know absolutely nothing about it, but it seems to be rated at 175psi _at
> 70 deg_ with only 140 psi at 140 deg.  Presumably there's enough safety
> factor built in, but in my shop that stuff would see 175psi at as much as 95
> deg if it gets really hot out / due to heat from the compressed air.
>
> Still, its attractive to me from an ease of assembly / modification
> standpoint.  Copper is what I was going to use when I finally upgraded from
> my redneck "manifold and a lot of rubber air lines" system I have today.
>  :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2011, David Hillman wrote:
>
>    Unbelievably to me, I searched the shop-talk archives, and found not
>> one mention RapidAir products ( ie RapidAir, Duratec, Maxline ).
>>
>> http://www.rapidairproducts.**com/index.asp<http://www.rapidairproducts.com/index.asp>
>>
>>  I refuse to believe that I've found something no here knew about, so...
>> comments?  Experience?  I'm considering installing the Maxline (3/4")
>> system, because the original RapidAir is only 1/2" and apparently rated for
>> 150psi. I may or may not buy the 175 psi compressor I'm looking at, but it
>> seems silly to save a few bucks here.
>>
>>  Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> David Hillman
>> ______________________________**_________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/**
>> options/shop-talk/marka@**maracing.com<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com>
>>
>  ______________________________**_________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/**
> options/shop-talk/jdinnis@**gmail.com<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com>
>
>


-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================

From shop at shariconglobal.com  Thu Aug  4 14:11:53 2011
From: shop at shariconglobal.com (Aric)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:11:53 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <MTAwMDAxNi5tY2ZldHJpaQ.1311890991@quikprotect>
References: <BAB545A9453B4CBBB3CD638F8DC193BF@dellPC><2FFB96FE58574D118D2B58807607F80D@Tablet><D43551F8-A183-4DB0-ABBC-83C653F4CDA9@comcast.net><CA+k5supZPqM88zK0iurikPXvYZp-Fb726An6NyqVQ2AzA9aBzQ@mail.gmail.com><C843BED1-3C33-4A6B-B5AB-67F685F9EE9C@comcast.net>
	<MTAwMDAxNi5tY2ZldHJpaQ.1311890991@quikprotect>
Message-ID: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet>

Howdy Folks,

Now that we're through closing and working on fixing up the house I figured
I'd do a bit of a follow-up to the question I had about underground oil
tanks.  Thanks to my buddy Pete (who I sucked into the list years ago and
recently brought me back onto it after a prolonged absense) for sending
along copies of the threads I recalled seeing.  Apparently he's in a similar
situation and squirreled the emails away for future reference.  

Anyway, after lots of calls to the realtor, the company that's been
supplying the oil for the past 40 years, the company that tested the well,
several oil tank remediation companies it looks like our state (PA) has a
grant program that should cover a good bit of any remediation that needs to
be done when we remove the tank.  Why only the one remediation company knew
of the program is beyond me, but they say it gernerally covers the whole
thing provided the tank is in decent shape (no odor in the basement, furnace
firing properly, etc).  So we'll be leaving things be for the moment since
there's no evidence of a problem and there's enough oil in it to get us
through a good chunk of the winter.  Come Spring (when we have a renter in
the place and rental income coming in to offset the cost of removal) we'll
pull the tank and either convert to gas or put an above-ground one in.

Thanks again to everyone for their help.

-aric. 

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Thu Aug  4 14:41:59 2011
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:41:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <CANuE7YC6XDytw_o7NmEKPHqT+PYnMU_6hn-W4AWt+SCofBsDRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1108041432200.4236@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<CANuE7YC6XDytw_o7NmEKPHqT+PYnMU_6hn-W4AWt+SCofBsDRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108041634380.87762@itonami.pair.com>

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011, John Innis wrote:
> The page on Northern tool for RapidAir is wrong, it is actually rated at
> 150psi from -40 F to +180 F.  Check out the borchure.
> http://www.northerntool.com/downloads/charts/490500.pdf

    There are two different products from the same company being confused 
there, I think.

    RapidAir Products makes RapidAir tubing, which is 1/2" OD nylon and 
rated for 150psi at the temperatures above.

    They also make Maxline, which is 3/4" OD hpde-al-hpde tube, and rated 
for 175psi at 70* F, and 140 psi at 140*.

    Which, now that I just typed that out, makes no sense.  I mean, it's 
hard for me to believe that the nylon hose is stronger at 180* F ( 150psi 
) than the aluminum-cored tubing is at 140*.

--
  David Hillman

From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  4 16:18:17 2011
From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 17:18:17 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop stuff and kindle
In-Reply-To: <52515446009F40D28F54AE3922EF8633@OwnerPC>
References: <52515446009F40D28F54AE3922EF8633@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <SNT123-W17F1D04F1567EA68C1234E13D0@phx.gbl>

They don't want you to read your own stuff.  They want to sell you books and
publications.

Rich White Central, IL USA
'63 TR3B TCF###L
That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car!

 > From: jniolon at bham.rr.com
> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:14:22 -0500
> Subject: [Shop-talk] shop stuff and kindle
>
> well... with hints from you guys and internet trolling and experimentation
> I've found something that works
>
> in windows explorer
> pick a pdf on your pc hard drive
> right click it and choose "Copy"
>
> go the Kindle drive and choose the 'Documents" folder
> right click on that folder and choose "Paste"
>
> after you move all your files over you can put them in different
'collections
> by creating new collections then use the add/remove option under
collections
>
> this seems to work... drag and drop did nothing for me but copy/paste seems
to
> work IF you move them to the Documents collection on the Kindle... nothing
> should be this hard...
>
> joihn
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com

From jmitch at snet.net  Thu Aug  4 16:39:49 2011
From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:39:49 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Compressed Air Lines, RapidAir
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108041432200.4236@thunder.banklogic.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108032008290.9767@itonami.pair.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1108041432200.4236@thunder.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <4E3B1FB5.7060503@snet.net>

If you plan on doing any car painting with the air system, I would 
recommend copper for it's ability to pull the heat and moisture out of 
the air.  I don't know if this hose is dramatically different than using 
plastic piping, but I've heard of catastrophic failures where shards 
were thrown into the work area.  Just my 2 cents   John Mitchell

On 8/4/2011 2:34 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I know absolutely nothing about it, but it seems to be rated at 175psi 
> _at 70 deg_ with only 140 psi at 140 deg.  Presumably there's enough 
> safety factor built in, but in my shop that stuff would see 175psi at 
> as much as 95 deg if it gets really hot out / due to heat from the 
> compressed air.
>
> Still, its attractive to me from an ease of assembly / modification 
> standpoint.  Copper is what I was going to use when I finally upgraded 
> from my redneck "manifold and a lot of rubber air lines" system I have 
> today.  :-)
>
> Mark
>
> On Wed, 3 Aug 2011, David Hillman wrote:
>
>>   Unbelievably to me, I searched the shop-talk archives, and found 
>> not one mention RapidAir products ( ie RapidAir, Duratec, Maxline ).
>>
>> http://www.rapidairproducts.com/index.asp
>>
>>   I refuse to believe that I've found something no here knew about, 
>> so... comments?  Experience?  I'm considering installing the Maxline 
>> (3/4") system, because the original RapidAir is only 1/2" and 
>> apparently rated for 150psi. I may or may not buy the 175 psi 
>> compressor I'm looking at, but it seems silly to save a few bucks here.
>>
>>   Thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>> David Hillman
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jmitch at snet.net

From marka at maracing.com  Thu Aug  4 21:37:39 2011
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 23:37:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] shop stuff and kindle
In-Reply-To: <SNT123-W17F1D04F1567EA68C1234E13D0@phx.gbl>
References: <52515446009F40D28F54AE3922EF8633@OwnerPC>
	<SNT123-W17F1D04F1567EA68C1234E13D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108042334210.12933@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

Sorta off topic, but I agree with this fairly well.  A big factor in me 
chosing a Nook Color over a Kindle was epub support, which is the format 
e-libraries seem to use.

While Kindle was the first one out there, I can't see the proprietary azw 
format winning in the long run.

Mark

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011, Rich White wrote:

> They don't want you to read your own stuff.  They want to sell you books and
> publications.
>
> Rich White Central, IL USA
> '63 TR3B TCF###L
> That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car!
>
> > From: jniolon at bham.rr.com
>> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:14:22 -0500
>> Subject: [Shop-talk] shop stuff and kindle
>>
>> well... with hints from you guys and internet trolling and experimentation
>> I've found something that works
>>
>> in windows explorer
>> pick a pdf on your pc hard drive
>> right click it and choose "Copy"
>>
>> go the Kindle drive and choose the 'Documents" folder
>> right click on that folder and choose "Paste"
>>
>> after you move all your files over you can put them in different
> 'collections
>> by creating new collections then use the add/remove option under
> collections
>>
>> this seems to work... drag and drop did nothing for me but copy/paste seems
> to
>> work IF you move them to the Documents collection on the Kindle... nothing
>> should be this hard...
>>
>> joihn
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com

From fortee9er at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  4 22:44:20 2011
From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 21:44:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
Message-ID: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I am looking for a window/though the wall a/c unit to cool and heat my garage. Based on an online calculator looks like I will need a 18000BTU unit, minimum, to cool my 23x33x11 garage. Consumer Reports had a report on just such units but the largest was 12000BTU. Their winner was LG but since I require a larger unit I don't know if their brand recommendation still applies. 
Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units (actually heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular? Any comments suggestions would be appreciated.
Jorge

From ronnie.day at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 06:48:35 2011
From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 07:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAMHhs6dL9_GG9p7c3kPAcPLmn3vKP3JjSZnGzRDatV4sXpo+=A@mail.gmail.com>

Jorge Garcia

I am looking for a window/though the wall a/c unit to cool and heat my
> garage. Based on an online calculator looks like I will need a 18000BTU
> unit, minimum, to cool my 23x33x11 garage. Consumer Reports had a report on
> just such units but the largest was 12000BTU. Their winner was LG but since
> I require a larger unit I don't know if their brand recommendation still
> applies.
> Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units
> (actually heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular? Any
> comments suggestions would be appreciated.
>

About a month ago we bought the 18K model of the LGs that were rated highly
by CR at Home Depot. Around $450, IIRC. They also have the 25K model for
$530 to $550.

FWIW,
Ron

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  5 07:41:11 2011
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 06:41:11 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4E3BF2F7.7000109@earthlink.net>

You might want to look at a mini-split system. Search "mini-split air 
conditioner" to see. That way you don't loose your window and can still 
secure the garage. I'm considering one for the apartment under my garage 
since my big sliding windows don't lend themselves to a window unit. The 
mini-splits are also supposed to be more efficient.

Brian

On 8/4/2011 9:44 PM, Jorge Garcia wrote:
> I am looking for a window/though the wall a/c unit to cool and heat my garage. Based on an online calculator looks like I will need a 18000BTU unit, minimum, to cool my 23x33x11 garage. Consumer Reports had a report on just such units but the largest was 12000BTU. Their winner was LG but since I require a larger unit I don't know if their brand recommendation still applies.
> Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units (actually heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular? Any comments suggestions would be appreciated.
> Jorge
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net

From strovato at optonline.net  Fri Aug  5 08:11:42 2011
From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:11:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <4E3BF2F7.7000109@earthlink.net>
References: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<4E3BF2F7.7000109@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0LPG00A8RKTDF9K0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

You can also get them with a single outdoor unit and more than one 
indoor unit.  They're great, but even in the most minimal form, the 
cost will be a lot more than the $500 for a window unit.

-Steve Trovato
strovato at optonline.net

At 09:41 AM 8/5/2011, Brian Kemp wrote:
>You might want to look at a mini-split system. Search "mini-split 
>air conditioner" to see. That way you don't loose your window and 
>can still secure the garage. I'm considering one for the apartment 
>under my garage since my big sliding windows don't lend themselves 
>to a window unit. The mini-splits are also supposed to be more efficient.
>
>Brian
>
>On 8/4/2011 9:44 PM, Jorge Garcia wrote:
>>I am looking for a window/though the wall a/c unit to cool and heat 
>>my garage. Based on an online calculator looks like I will need a 
>>18000BTU unit, minimum, to cool my 23x33x11 garage. Consumer 
>>Reports had a report on just such units but the largest was 
>>12000BTU. Their winner was LG but since I require a larger unit I 
>>don't know if their brand recommendation still applies.
>>Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units 
>>(actually heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular? 
>>Any comments suggestions would be appreciated.
>>Jorge
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net

From cavanadd at frontier.com  Fri Aug  5 11:04:08 2011
From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:04:08 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <0LPG00A8RKTDF9K0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
References: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<4E3BF2F7.7000109@earthlink.net>
	<0LPG00A8RKTDF9K0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Message-ID: <4E3C2288.7030405@frontier.com>

If you're looking for a heat pump I would think a split system would be 
the way to go; all the advantages already mentioned by the others. 
You'll probably need a contractor to install it, though, and probably an 
additional electrical circuit.

Steven Trovato wrote:
> You can also get them with a single outdoor unit and more than one
> indoor unit. They're great, but even in the most minimal form, the cost
> will be a lot more than the $500 for a window unit.
>
> -Steve Trovato
> strovato at optonline.net
>
> At 09:41 AM 8/5/2011, Brian Kemp wrote:
>> You might want to look at a mini-split system. Search "mini-split air
>> conditioner" to see. That way you don't loose your window and can
>> still secure the garage. I'm considering one for the apartment under
>> my garage since my big sliding windows don't lend themselves to a
>> window unit. The mini-splits are also supposed to be more efficient.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On 8/4/2011 9:44 PM, Jorge Garcia wrote:
>>> I am looking for a window/though the wall a/c unit to cool and heat
>>> my garage. Based on an online calculator looks like I will need a
>>> 18000BTU unit, minimum, to cool my 23x33x11 garage. Consumer Reports
>>> had a report on just such units but the largest was 12000BTU. Their
>>> winner was LG but since I require a larger unit I don't know if their
>>> brand recommendation still applies.
>>> Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units
>>> (actually heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular?
>>> Any comments suggestions would be appreciated.
>>> Jorge
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation $12.96
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.96
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com

From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Fri Aug  5 13:18:46 2011
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:18:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP9o65OcefUXScjjeyzecxUre6C0QHuyJyzqgY=F7LrBXQ@mail.gmail.com>

You could always pick up two less expensive/lower capacity smaller
cooling-only units and run them in parallel, and then re-start the
discussion of the best way to heat the shop/garage. Depending on how
cold winter gets where you are, you may want to pull the unit out and
seal the hole during the cold season.

-Peter

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:44 AM, Jorge Garcia <fortee9er at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am looking for a window/though the wall a/c unit to cool and heat my
garage. Based on an online calculator looks like I will need a 18000BTU unit,
minimum, to cool my 23x33x11 garage. Consumer Reports had a report on just
such units but the largest was 12000BTU. Their winner was LG but since I
require a larger unit I don't know if their brand recommendation still
applies.
> Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units (actually
heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular? Any comments
suggestions would be appreciated.
> Jorge
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com

From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  5 13:47:03 2011
From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:47:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <CAJ8HLP9o65OcefUXScjjeyzecxUre6C0QHuyJyzqgY=F7LrBXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1312519460.46890.YahooMailClassic@web161429.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>,
	<CAJ8HLP9o65OcefUXScjjeyzecxUre6C0QHuyJyzqgY=F7LrBXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT127-W4717C82B05B940528B5C3F9A3C0@phx.gbl>

This summer I added an old window unit left over from someone who no longer
needed it (free).

I think one of the main things it does is bring the humidity down to around
50% consistently, and that stays for awhile even if you don't run it for a day
or so as long as the doors are shut.
With low humidity, even at 80F it's still pretty bearable - you're not
dripping in sweat...

If you're into woodworking, this will keep your materials from getting too
warped, etc.  If I run it for a few hours in the morning before I go out there
on the weekend, it will cool from 85-75 no problem.  Same if I turn it on an
hour before I go out there in the evening.  I put a Kill a watt on it, and for
an old 18k unit, it uses little power.

I use a ceiling fan in the peaked roof of my detached garage and it keeps the
temp evenly distributed as well.

-PJ

> From: peterwmurray at gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 15:18:46 -0400
> To: fortee9err at yahoo.com; Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
>
> You could always pick up two less expensive/lower capacity smaller
> cooling-only units and run them in parallel, and then re-start the
> discussion of the best way to heat the shop/garage. Depending on how
> cold winter gets where you are, you may want to pull the unit out and
> seal the hole during the cold season.
>
> -Peter
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:44 AM, Jorge Garcia <fortee9er at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I am looking for a window/though the wall a/c unit to cool and heat my
> garage. Based on an online calculator looks like I will need a 18000BTU
unit,
> minimum, to cool my 23x33x11 garage. Consumer Reports had a report on just
> such units but the largest was 12000BTU. Their winner was LG but since I
> require a larger unit I don't know if their brand recommendation still
> applies.
> > Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units
(actually
> heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular? Any comments
> suggestions would be appreciated.
> > Jorge
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
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http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Fri Aug  5 17:33:20 2011
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:33:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110805193206.04daa460@cox.net>

At 12:44 AM 8/5/2011, Jorge wrote:

 >I am looking for a window/though the wall a/c unit to cool and heat 
my garage.
 >Based on an online calculator looks like I will need a 18000BTU 
unit, minimum,
 >to cool my 23x33x11 garage. Consumer Reports had a report on just such units
 >but the largest was 12000BTU. Their winner was LG but since I 
require a larger
 >unit I don't know if their brand recommendation still applies.
 >
 >Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units (actually
 >heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular? Any comments
 >suggestions would be appreciated.

Jorge,

"Eric J Russell" on this list used a system from 
Ramsond  http://www.ramsond.com/ . Here are some
pictures to Erics installation:

Outside units: 
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2689817330044267019MwzSIU
Inside unit: 
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2390283140044267019nPIrxI
Garage remodel album: http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/570714378cIOpnc

He stated:

"I installed a pair of 'ductless mini split' heat & A/C heat pumps in 
our remodeled garage with 'bonus room' above (one unit for 
garage/shop the other for the bonus room above. Both the garage & 
bonus room are insulated. I bought two 18,000 BTU units from Ramsond.
http://www.ramsond.com/minizone.php

Fairly simple to install. 3" dia hole through the wall with two 
copper pipes (insulated) & a drain line (for the A/C dehumidifier) 
and some 14 ga wires between the indoor unit and the heat pump 
outside. The units come pre-charged with refrigerant. I paid an A/C 
tech to evacuate the lines before opening the valves to start up the 
units but did all the installation myself. I ran the exterior lines 
through some PVC drain pipe to protect them and make it look 
'finished'. I am pleased with the operation. They are quiet and heat 
& cool fairly quickly."


They make units up to about 2 tons (24000 BTUs).  I contacted them as 
I want to put one in my garage and room over the garage.  They 
suggested a 1 Ton for
the garage, and 3/4 ton for the room over the garage.  $1,600 for both units
delivered.

That seemed quite cost effective!!!


John
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

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the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for  oneself;
                  freedom  from  control  or  restriction

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Fri Aug  5 20:17:06 2011
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 22:17:06 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20110805193206.04daa460@cox.net>
References: <6.2.5.6.1.20110805193206.04daa460@cox.net>
Message-ID: <4A1CAE3DBFE0422381F9C86E31D41718@EricJRussellPC>

Thanks, John, it's nice to be remembered! I wasn't able to reply earlier
today - work gets in the way of the things I need to do...

The 'mini-split' units I have work very well, quiet and seem
quite efficient. They are probably a little more costly than a window unit
however. Another option to consider is called a PTAC - the type you see in
many motel rooms. They don't mount in a window though - you'll need to cut
studs and frame the opening with a proper header.

In my pre-remodeled garage I had a 12,000 BTU A/C unit that was meant to
install in a casement window. I bought it because it is 14" wide - I mounted
it through-the-wall without needing to cut any studs.

There are two issues with window mount units IMO. 1) they block the window's
light & ability to open for fresh air and B) they can be difficult to secure
leaving the garage vulnerable to break-in.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage


> At 12:44 AM 8/5/2011, Jorge wrote:
>
> >Do any of you guys have any experience with this type of a/c units
> >(actually
> >heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in particular? Any comments
> >suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Jorge,
>
> "Eric J Russell" on this list used a system from Ramsond
> http://www.ramsond.com/ . Here are some
> pictures to Erics installation:
>
> Outside units:
> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2689817330044267019MwzSIU
> Inside unit:
> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2390283140044267019nPIrxI
> Garage remodel album:
> http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/570714378cIOpnc

From fortee9er at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  6 10:35:24 2011
From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 09:35:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <4A1CAE3DBFE0422381F9C86E31D41718@EricJRussellPC>
Message-ID: <1312648524.46789.YahooMailClassic@web161427.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

My garage has no windows, I used the term "window a/c unit" to mean something
that would mount through a casing on the wall.
Originally I was thinking of a ductless unit but they cost twice as much as  a
"window unit".
Another consideration is noise.  Which type of the a/c units you guys have
mentioned is the least noisy?
Thanks for all the comments so far.
Jorge

--- On Fri, 8/5/11, Eric J Russell <ejrussell at mebtel.net> wrote:

> From: Eric J Russell <ejrussell at mebtel.net>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
> To: "shop-talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Date: Friday, August 5, 2011, 9:17 PM
> Thanks, John, it's nice to be
> remembered! I wasn't able to reply earlier
> today - work gets in the way of the things I need to do...
>
> The 'mini-split' units I have work very well, quiet and
> seem
> quite efficient. They are probably a little more costly
> than a window unit
> however. Another option to consider is called a PTAC - the
> type you see in
> many motel rooms. They don't mount in a window though -
> you'll need to cut
> studs and frame the opening with a proper header.
>
> In my pre-remodeled garage I had a 12,000 BTU A/C unit that
> was meant to
> install in a casement window. I bought it because it is 14"
> wide - I mounted
> it through-the-wall without needing to cut any studs.
>
> There are two issues with window mount units IMO. 1) they
> block the window's
> light & ability to open for fresh air and B) they can
> be difficult to secure
> leaving the garage vulnerable to break-in.
>
> Eric Russell
> Mebane, NC
> http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net>
> To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
>
>
> > At 12:44 AM 8/5/2011, Jorge wrote:
> >
> > >Do any of you guys have any experience with this
> type of a/c units
> > >(actually
> > >heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in
> particular? Any comments
> > >suggestions would be appreciated.
> >
> > Jorge,
> >
> > "Eric J Russell" on this list used a system from
> Ramsond
> > http://www.ramsond.com/ . Here are some
> > pictures to Erics installation:
> >
> > Outside units:
> > http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2689817330044267019MwzSIU
> > Inside unit:
> > http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2390283140044267019nPIrxI
> > Garage remodel album:
> > http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/570714378cIOpnc
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fortee9er at yahoo.com

From jibjib at att.net  Sat Aug  6 17:19:44 2011
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 16:19:44 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
In-Reply-To: <1312648524.46789.YahooMailClassic@web161427.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <4A1CAE3DBFE0422381F9C86E31D41718@EricJRussellPC>
	<1312648524.46789.YahooMailClassic@web161427.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <89E9D050C88A4958852BC57614B830E1@EntCent>

Jorge,

Yes, even without a window, you can frame out a "window" opening to put the
unit through any wall.  

The split system is likely the quietest type of system, but in every brand,
you will pay a little more for quieter.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jorge Garcia
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 9:35 AM
To: shop-talk; Eric J Russell
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage

My garage has no windows, I used the term "window a/c unit" to mean
something
that would mount through a casing on the wall.
Originally I was thinking of a ductless unit but they cost twice as much as
a
"window unit".
Another consideration is noise.  Which type of the a/c units you guys have
mentioned is the least noisy?
Thanks for all the comments so far.
Jorge

--- On Fri, 8/5/11, Eric J Russell <ejrussell at mebtel.net> wrote:

> From: Eric J Russell <ejrussell at mebtel.net>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
> To: "shop-talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Date: Friday, August 5, 2011, 9:17 PM
> Thanks, John, it's nice to be
> remembered! I wasn't able to reply earlier
> today - work gets in the way of the things I need to do...
>
> The 'mini-split' units I have work very well, quiet and
> seem
> quite efficient. They are probably a little more costly
> than a window unit
> however. Another option to consider is called a PTAC - the
> type you see in
> many motel rooms. They don't mount in a window though -
> you'll need to cut
> studs and frame the opening with a proper header.
>
> In my pre-remodeled garage I had a 12,000 BTU A/C unit that
> was meant to
> install in a casement window. I bought it because it is 14"
> wide - I mounted
> it through-the-wall without needing to cut any studs.
>
> There are two issues with window mount units IMO. 1) they
> block the window's
> light & ability to open for fresh air and B) they can
> be difficult to secure
> leaving the garage vulnerable to break-in.
>
> Eric Russell
> Mebane, NC
> http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net>
> To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Window a/c unit for the garage
>
>
> > At 12:44 AM 8/5/2011, Jorge wrote:
> >
> > >Do any of you guys have any experience with this
> type of a/c units
> > >(actually
> > >heat pumps). Do you recommend any brand(s) in
> particular? Any comments
> > >suggestions would be appreciated.
> >
> > Jorge,
> >
> > "Eric J Russell" on this list used a system from
> Ramsond
> > http://www.ramsond.com/ . Here are some
> > pictures to Erics installation:
> >
> > Outside units:
> > http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2689817330044267019MwzSIU
> > Inside unit:
> > http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2390283140044267019nPIrxI
> > Garage remodel album:
> > http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/570714378cIOpnc
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fortee9er at yahoo.com
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sun Aug  7 19:41:28 2011
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 20:41:28 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing hardening-type Permatex No. 1
Message-ID: <001f01cc556c$4b6c27f0$e24477d0$@ameritech.net>

I'm often faced with removing and replacing parts installed over 10 years
ago with what appears to be old-fashioned, hardening-type Permatex No. 1.
The gaskets are glued onto both parts with the Permatex, and thanks to many
joints between steel and magnesium or aluminum, differential expansion has
disturbed a majority of the joints enough to cause oil leaks.  No idea why
the previous mechanic used this crap, but it's there now and I have to
remove and re-gasket most every part where he used it because of oil leaks.

 

Once the joints are apart, the real fun begins as I try to remove the
remaining gasket and sealer without hurting the engine case (magnesium), and
the mating parts, which are mostly steel or aluminum.

 

I've tried pretty much every solvent I have - naphtha, mineral spirits,
lacquer thinner, acetone, MEK, xylene, heavy-duty methylene chloride
stripper, and even oven cleaner.  I've also applied enough heat that the
gaskets begin to burn, but no effect on the Permatex.  Nothing seems to
touch it.  Permatex says isopropyl alcohol works on cured material, but it
doesn't as far as I can tell.  This stuff has been heat-cycled many times
over at least 10 years, and it's pretty hard and the excess oozed out is
fairly crumbly.

 

Many of the joint surfaces are very hard to get to in order to scrape, and
when it's on magnesium or aluminum, I don't want to scrape with anything too
aggressive, so as not to mar the surface.  I wind up using sharpened oak
scrapers, popsicle sticks, plastic putty knives, and lots of time and elbow
grease.

 

Anybody ever successfully and simply remove this stuff ?

 

Thanks!
Karl

 

 

Pilots -

Looking down on people since 1903

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 20:33:47 2011
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:33:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing hardening-type Permatex No. 1
In-Reply-To: <001f01cc556c$4b6c27f0$e24477d0$@ameritech.net>
References: <001f01cc556c$4b6c27f0$e24477d0$@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <CA+7Nz3o6ZtA0TSfppE3UfmLx-B-_oFOhZtsgBR-L7TVzFTcSmA@mail.gmail.com>

*In industrial engines and equipment, the same problem is frequent and the
good techs I've watched use a butane torch in one hand and a wire brush in
the other: cosmetics are not a priority for them. . practice on a ferrous
part 'til you develop a tender touch for the alloys.  Tony
*
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 8:41 PM, Karl Vacek <kvacek at ameritech.net> wrote:

> I'm often faced with removing and replacing parts installed over 10 years
> ago with what appears to be old-fashioned, hardening-type Permatex No. 1.
> The gaskets are glued onto both parts with the Permatex, and thanks to many
> joints between steel and magnesium or aluminum, differential expansion has
> disturbed a majority of the joints enough to cause oil leaks.  No idea why
> the previous mechanic used this crap, but it's there now and I have to
> remove and re-gasket most every part where he used it because of oil leaks.
>
>
>
> Once the joints are apart, the real fun begins as I try to remove the
> remaining gasket and sealer without hurting the engine case (magnesium),
> and
> the mating parts, which are mostly steel or aluminum.
>
>
>
> I've tried pretty much every solvent I have - naphtha, mineral spirits,
> lacquer thinner, acetone, MEK, xylene, heavy-duty methylene chloride
> stripper, and even oven cleaner.  I've also applied enough heat that the
> gaskets begin to burn, but no effect on the Permatex.  Nothing seems to
> touch it.  Permatex says isopropyl alcohol works on cured material, but it
> doesn't as far as I can tell.  This stuff has been heat-cycled many times
> over at least 10 years, and it's pretty hard and the excess oozed out is
> fairly crumbly.
>
>
>
> Many of the joint surfaces are very hard to get to in order to scrape, and
> when it's on magnesium or aluminum, I don't want to scrape with anything
> too
> aggressive, so as not to mar the surface.  I wind up using sharpened oak
> scrapers, popsicle sticks, plastic putty knives, and lots of time and elbow
> grease.
>
>
>
> Anybody ever successfully and simply remove this stuff ?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
> Karl
>
>
>
>
>
> Pilots -
>
> Looking down on people since 1903
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eltonclark at gmail.com
>
>


-- 

*The problems we face today are there because the people who work
for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.*

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun Aug  7 22:00:28 2011
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:00:28 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing hardening-type Permatex No. 1
In-Reply-To: <001f01cc556c$4b6c27f0$e24477d0$@ameritech.net>
References: <001f01cc556c$4b6c27f0$e24477d0$@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <441A1E8AD06B47D0A41D3AEDAB4ED81C@Meislaptop>

> Anybody ever successfully and simply remove this stuff ?

Not exactly simple, but Loctite 'Chisel Gasket Remover' does slowly soften
it.

-- Randall

From eric at megageek.com  Mon Aug  8 07:19:42 2011
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 09:19:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet>
Message-ID: <OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com>

Sorry to chime in late here, but I was away with the army for a bit.

Here is my feelings on the issue. 

REMOVE THE TANK NOW!!!!  I was of the opinion that I could 'always remove 
it later.'  Then, one day I was out of oil and their should have been 
about 600 gals in there.  My tank leaked.

They don't give any warning before a leak, and the don't let you know they 
leaked until after it's all gone.  Even worst, if the leak is only halfway 
down the tank, it may take you years to know it leaked.

As for the remediation programs, here is what I found out.

NJ has a program that covers the cost.  Right now, its completely unfunded 
and may never be funded again.

I had the insurance from a company that specializing in tanks.  They 
covered the cost (less deductible) but IF the oil hit the water table or a 
neighbors property, they wouldn't cover any of that.  Not to mention the 
cap was about $100,000.

If the tank would have been pulled WITHOUT a leak, it would have only cost 
me about $1200 for the removal and new tanks.  If the tank was pulled with 
a leak and no insurance, I would most likely be bankrupt right now.

I got lucky. But I will never chance that again.  I will not buy a 
property with any inground tanks, and I could not in good conscience tell 
a friend to wait or leave it alone if they had one.

I'm sorry this email may seem like a downer, but I just spent the past 2 
months dealing with this in an massive state of panic.  It is a seriously 
important issue.  The environmentalist have made this process nothing less 
than catastrophic if you don't have insurance (or if your coverage doesn't 
cover the clean up.)

Don't wait, do it now, do it 100% legally and pay the (smaller) price now.

Moose
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 




"Aric" <shop at shariconglobal.com> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
08/04/2011 15:57

To
<shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org>, "'Shop Talk'" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
cc

Subject
[Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank






Howdy Folks,

Now that we're through closing and working on fixing up the house I 
figured
I'd do a bit of a follow-up to the question I had about underground oil
tanks.  Thanks to my buddy Pete (who I sucked into the list years ago and
recently brought me back onto it after a prolonged absense) for sending
along copies of the threads I recalled seeing.  Apparently he's in a 
similar
situation and squirreled the emails away for future reference. 

Anyway, after lots of calls to the realtor, the company that's been
supplying the oil for the past 40 years, the company that tested the well,
several oil tank remediation companies it looks like our state (PA) has a
grant program that should cover a good bit of any remediation that needs 
to
be done when we remove the tank.  Why only the one remediation company 
knew
of the program is beyond me, but they say it gernerally covers the whole
thing provided the tank is in decent shape (no odor in the basement, 
furnace
firing properly, etc).  So we'll be leaving things be for the moment since
there's no evidence of a problem and there's enough oil in it to get us
through a good chunk of the winter.  Come Spring (when we have a renter in
the place and rental income coming in to offset the cost of removal) we'll
pull the tank and either convert to gas or put an above-ground one in.

Thanks again to everyone for their help.

-aric. 
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com  Mon Aug  8 12:09:49 2011
From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 13:09:49 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com>
References: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet>,
	<OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <SNT123-W271C47DCC3689C06EA8C2FE1210@phx.gbl>

I had not commented because I do not have any direct experience...
Years ago the school where I was teaching had a tank removed.  The boss sold
the old oil.
Maybe you can get some of your money that way or have it transferred to the
new tanks.

Rich White Central, IL USA
'63 TR3B TCF###L
That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car!

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Mon Aug  8 12:47:48 2011
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 14:47:48 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@
	mail.megageek.com>
References: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet>
	<OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20110808144331.04dcc288@cox.net>

At 09:19 AM 8/8/2011, you wrote:

 >The environmentalist have made this process nothing less than 
catastrophic if
 >you don't have insurance (or if your coverage doesn't cover the clean up.)
 >
 >Don't wait, do it now, do it 100% legally and pay the (smaller) price now.

Moose,

So where are you all getting the insurance?  Does it cover things other than in
ground tanks, or does it cover general environmental issues.

I'm thinking of the old aspestos, now in ground oil tanks, of which I 
have neigher.
But what will be next,  pine trees, houses on foundations and not 
slabs, houses on slabs and not foundations, water wells?

Maybe we should try to protect ourselves now?

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - 
the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for  oneself;
                  freedom  from  control  or  restriction

From marka at maracing.com  Mon Aug  8 13:14:39 2011
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 15:14:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20110808144331.04dcc288@cox.net>
References: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet>
	<OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20110808144331.04dcc288@cox.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108081513190.8721@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Mon, 8 Aug 2011, John T. Blair wrote:
> I'm thinking of the old aspestos, now in ground oil tanks, of which I 
> have neigher. But what will be next, pine trees, houses on foundations 
> and not slabs, houses on slabs and not foundations, water wells?
>
> Maybe we should try to protect ourselves now?

I'm just taking a flyer here, but I'm betting cleaning up oil 
contamination of the drinking water _is_ protecting ourselves?

Mark

From eric at megageek.com  Mon Aug  8 14:44:25 2011
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 16:44:25 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20110808144331.04dcc288@cox.net>
Message-ID: <OF36399383.95CD7513-ON852578E6.00735D54-852578E6.00738047@mail.megageek.com>

Around here Proguard offers the insurance.  I get it through a local 
agency.  I would contact your oil distributor.  There are some conditions 
on even being able to get the policy.

It only covers oil tanks (above and below ground) and there are lots of 
conditions.

Shoot me a private email if you need more information.

Moose
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 




"John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
08/08/2011 14:50

To
shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net
cc

Subject
Re: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank






At 09:19 AM 8/8/2011, you wrote:

 >The environmentalist have made this process nothing less than 
catastrophic if
 >you don't have insurance (or if your coverage doesn't cover the clean 
up.)
 >
 >Don't wait, do it now, do it 100% legally and pay the (smaller) price 
now.

Moose,

So where are you all getting the insurance?  Does it cover things other 
than in
ground tanks, or does it cover general environmental issues.

I'm thinking of the old aspestos, now in ground oil tanks, of which I 
have neigher.
But what will be next,  pine trees, houses on foundations and not 
slabs, houses on slabs and not foundations, water wells?

Maybe we should try to protect ourselves now?

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                        65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

 From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
      e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
      In God We Trust
      Liberty - 
the  power  of  choosing,  thinking,  and  acting  for  oneself;
                  freedom  from  control  or  restriction
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Mon Aug  8 17:08:47 2011
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 19:08:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108081513190.8721@thunder.banklogic.net>
References: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet>
	<OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20110808144331.04dcc288@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1108081513190.8721@thunder.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <4E406C7F.5070902@xxiii.com>

On 8/8/2011 3:14 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
>> Maybe we should try to protect ourselves now?
> I'm just taking a flyer here, but I'm betting cleaning up oil
> contamination of the drinking water _is_ protecting ourselves?

I am not a hard core "greenie" but I feel like we have to cover our 
asses within reason.  15 years ago living in Ohio, the OEPA made 
everyone pull up and replace gasoline tanks.  Lots of mom & pop gas 
stations whined about it and said "it's just the damn gubment" doing 
stupid things.  Well I'm pretty sure every one of those tanks was 
leaking to some degree and I'm glad the state forced the issue.

Now I live in North Carolina, where things are not policed as closely. 
A "mom & pop" gas station just recently had a tank failure that polluted 
wells within over a 2 FUCKING MILE radius.  The city (Hendersonville, 
NC)  spent a couple million running water lines to affected homes, 
because the gasoline in the ground water won't likely clean up for decades.

-Wayne

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon Aug  8 18:30:33 2011
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 19:30:33 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up: New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <4E406C7F.5070902@xxiii.com>
References: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet>
	<OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20110808144331.04dcc288@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1108081513190.8721@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<4E406C7F.5070902@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5suoc+qwU8iZm4CtKRgGQGmk4YKpZ0s+3aLr2jL+XL-0mBg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 3:14 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe we should try to protect ourselves now?
>>
>> I'm just taking a flyer here, but I'm betting cleaning up oil
>> contamination of the drinking water _is_ protecting ourselves?
>
> I am not a hard core "greenie" but I feel like we have to cover our asses
> within reason. B 15 years ago living in Ohio, the OEPA made everyone pull
up
> and replace gasoline tanks. B Lots of mom & pop gas stations whined about
it
> and said "it's just the damn gubment" doing stupid things. B Well I'm
pretty
> sure every one of those tanks was leaking to some degree and I'm glad the
> state forced the issue.


The 1998ish requirement is federal.



--
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From fishplate at gmail.com  Mon Aug  8 19:11:05 2011
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 21:11:05 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up: New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <4E406C7F.5070902@xxiii.com>
References: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet>
	<OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com>
	<6.2.5.6.1.20110808144331.04dcc288@cox.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1108081513190.8721@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<4E406C7F.5070902@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CP6gHO=dd-N21VUino8oVj0TyDiM07Unkx35ga0zgmDoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> The city (Hendersonville, NC)  spent a couple million running water lines
to
> affected homes, because the gasoline in the ground water won't likely clean
> up for decades.

I help manage some USTs (Underground Storage Tanks) containing
gasoline and diesel fuel.  Even if you are the Federal Government like
us, the Federal Government will not hesitate to fine you big time if
you fail to do your 53 hour leak tests and maintain complete usage
records.

Be glad you're just a homeowner.  If it was me, I'd pull the tank soonest.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

From eric at megageek.com  Tue Aug  9 05:17:58 2011
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 07:17:58 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <4E406C7F.5070902@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <OF177B5A84.87BE4EA7-ON852578E7.003F401E-852578E7.003FA3EA@mail.megageek.com>

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we don't need to take care of the 
environment.  But I think we pasted the 'happy median' a long time ago.

It is too the point now that most people can't risk pulling a tank.  The 
clean up is way too expensive.  Do we really need to regulate everything 
to the Nth degree that doing the right thing is just too expensive?

Why can't I pull my own tank (with an inspector present) and remove any 
contaminated soil myself?  When I was talking with the remediation 
contractor, he told me about how each year, there is a new layer of red 
tape, bs or other regulation that just makes the work more expensive 
without it being any more effective.

I agree with a regulation that says you have to pull tanks, but make sure 
you can affordable remediate the site instead of just bankrupting the 
people that are trying to do right.

Moose
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 




Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
08/08/2011 19:03

To
shop-talk at autox.team.net
cc

Subject
Re: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank






On 8/8/2011 3:14 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
>> Maybe we should try to protect ourselves now?
> I'm just taking a flyer here, but I'm betting cleaning up oil
> contamination of the drinking water _is_ protecting ourselves?

I am not a hard core "greenie" but I feel like we have to cover our 
asses within reason.  15 years ago living in Ohio, the OEPA made 
everyone pull up and replace gasoline tanks.  Lots of mom & pop gas 
stations whined about it and said "it's just the damn gubment" doing 
stupid things.  Well I'm pretty sure every one of those tanks was 
leaking to some degree and I'm glad the state forced the issue.

Now I live in North Carolina, where things are not policed as closely. 
A "mom & pop" gas station just recently had a tank failure that polluted 
wells within over a 2 FUCKING MILE radius.  The city (Hendersonville, 
NC)  spent a couple million running water lines to affected homes, 
because the gasoline in the ground water won't likely clean up for 
decades.

-Wayne
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com

From eric at megageek.com  Tue Aug  9 05:19:24 2011
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 07:19:24 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up: New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <CA+k5suoc+qwU8iZm4CtKRgGQGmk4YKpZ0s+3aLr2jL+XL-0mBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF9639843B.A9BA8018-ON852578E7.003FACEB-852578E7.003FC597@mail.megageek.com>

There was (and still is, I think) a exemption for gas stations that didn't 
do high volume.  I know there are a few even here in NJ that never had to 
pull their tanks (but they will soon.)

Moose
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 




David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
08/08/2011 20:32

To
Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com>
cc
shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject
Re: [Shop-talk] Follow-up: New house / underground oil tank






On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> On 8/8/2011 3:14 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe we should try to protect ourselves now?
>>
>> I'm just taking a flyer here, but I'm betting cleaning up oil
>> contamination of the drinking water _is_ protecting ourselves?
>
> I am not a hard core "greenie" but I feel like we have to cover our 
asses
> within reason. B 15 years ago living in Ohio, the OEPA made everyone 
pull
up
> and replace gasoline tanks. B Lots of mom & pop gas stations whined 
about
it
> and said "it's just the damn gubment" doing stupid things. B Well I'm
pretty
> sure every one of those tanks was leaking to some degree and I'm glad 
the
> state forced the issue.


The 1998ish requirement is federal.



--
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com

From eric at megageek.com  Tue Aug  9 07:44:05 2011
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 09:44:05 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Flashlight bulbs
Message-ID: <OF7B46790D.B15D808D-ON852578E7.004CC248-852578E7.004D04A1@mail.megageek.com>

I'm trying to figure out why this is such a hard task!

I've got 2 different brand flashlights and I can't find any place that 
carries both bulbs.

I want to order replacements, but I want to do it from a place that 
carries both.  Does anyone have any recommendations for online places with 
a great selection?

The bulbs are xpr24volt .45A  and blc60018x  (black and decker 24volt  and 
a dewalt 18 volt cordless kits.)

TIA

Moose
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 08:09:52 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 10:09:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <OF177B5A84.87BE4EA7-ON852578E7.003F401E-852578E7.003FA3EA@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF177B5A84.87BE4EA7-ON852578E7.003F401E-852578E7.003FA3EA@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4E413FB0.3080105@gmail.com>

I agree with your sentiment, Eric, but speaking from another regulatory 
perspective (not underground oil tanks), the reason you get more and 
more regulation is because each time you leave a loophole for someone 
just trying to do it right not to get bankrupted, the bad actors pour 
through that loophole.  Since you can't selectively apply (at least on a 
large, documented scale) the full force of the regulations just to those 
bad actors, the smaller, honest individuals suffer.

Not that that makes it right, but that's been my experience dealing with 
regulations and regulated entities.  And having never been the regulator 
myself, I can tell you that if I can see the logic, there must be at 
least a little something to it.

We had a similar situation here to the one described in another post--a 
small gas station had a leak in a tank.  We sit right on top of the 
Floridian aquifer--supplying drinking water to millions of people.  The 
contamination was estimated to be so severe that there was literally no 
remediation possible.  The owners knew of the issue and just let it 
ride.  When you have that sort of thing happening, I'm not sure you can 
assume good intentions too often.

Scott

On 8/9/2011 7:17 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we don't need to take care of the
> environment.  But I think we pasted the 'happy median' a long time ago.
>
> It is too the point now that most people can't risk pulling a tank.  The
> clean up is way too expensive.  Do we really need to regulate everything
> to the Nth degree that doing the right thing is just too expensive?
>
> Why can't I pull my own tank (with an inspector present) and remove any
> contaminated soil myself?  When I was talking with the remediation
> contractor, he told me about how each year, there is a new layer of red
> tape, bs or other regulation that just makes the work more expensive
> without it being any more effective.
>
> I agree with a regulation that says you have to pull tanks, but make sure
> you can affordable remediate the site instead of just bankrupting the
> people that are trying to do right.

From tvacc at lotusowners.com  Tue Aug  9 09:30:26 2011
From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 11:30:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up:  New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <02380AA195AA48A9811325B0213D7DCE@amicroinc.local>
References: <84D0D264A37B49E5830E28C488D99E01@Tablet><OF2282BEDE.F7E6B420-ON852578E6.0049E92D-852578E6.004AC93E@mail.megageek.com><6.2.5.6.1.20110808144331.04dcc288@cox.net><Pine.LNX.4.64.1108081513190.8721@thunder.banklogic.net>
	<02380AA195AA48A9811325B0213D7DCE@amicroinc.local>
Message-ID: <19FA47CCFA08462FB63DD9978C33B497@amicroinc.local>

I don't really post much to this group.

But my best friend died from contaminated ground water, so I think it is
wise to side with the people forcing this issue.

Tony Vaccaro

LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
www.lotusowners.com
716-861-1412

This document and any files or e-mail messages attached to it contain data
or information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise restricted from
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-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 7:40 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Follow-up: New house / underground oil tank

On 8/8/2011 3:14 PM, Mark Andy wrote:
>> Maybe we should try to protect ourselves now?
> I'm just taking a flyer here, but I'm betting cleaning up oil
> contamination of the drinking water _is_ protecting ourselves?

I am not a hard core "greenie" but I feel like we have to cover our 
asses within reason.  15 years ago living in Ohio, the OEPA made 
everyone pull up and replace gasoline tanks.  Lots of mom & pop gas 
stations whined about it and said "it's just the damn gubment" doing 
stupid things.  Well I'm pretty sure every one of those tanks was 
leaking to some degree and I'm glad the state forced the issue.

Now I live in North Carolina, where things are not policed as closely. 
A "mom & pop" gas station just recently had a tank failure that polluted 
wells within over a 2 FUCKING MILE radius.  The city (Hendersonville, 
NC)  spent a couple million running water lines to affected homes, 
because the gasoline in the ground water won't likely clean up for decades.

-Wayne
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage:
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From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 10:03:26 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 12:03:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe
Message-ID: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>

There's a Sears Atlas lathe for sale locally.  From the pictures, it 
looks like an overgrown bench lathe sitting on a wood cabinet.  Nothing 
like the Monarchs I usually keep my eye out for.  And he wants $900--you 
can usually find CKs for $1500-ish.  On the price alone, I'd rather 
spend twice that and drive for a nice(r) Monarch.

But it's local, and I understand these things used to be popular, and 
what do I know?  Is it worth going to look at?  It's an Atlas 618 or 
Sears 101.214.

From marka at maracing.com  Tue Aug  9 10:59:36 2011
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 12:59:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe
In-Reply-To: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108091253520.32170@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Tue, 9 Aug 2011, Scott Hall wrote:
> There's a Sears Atlas lathe for sale locally.  From the pictures, it looks 
> like an overgrown bench lathe sitting on a wood cabinet.  Nothing like the 
> Monarchs I usually keep my eye out for.  And he wants $900--you can usually 
> find CKs for $1500-ish.  On the price alone, I'd rather spend twice that and 
> drive for a nice(r) Monarch.
>
> But it's local, and I understand these things used to be popular, and what do 
> I know?  Is it worth going to look at?  It's an Atlas 618 or Sears 101.214.

This is the small 6" swing Atlas, right?

I certainly wouldn't spend $900 for one.  Personally, I'd much rather have 
a chinese 9" swing lathe like 
http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000 vs. the smaller 
Atlas any day of the week.

If you'd prefer old iron, Southbend 9" workshop lathes are in that price 
range as well.  The 9A in particular is a nice smaller lathe.

For any of these though, the size footprint doesn't go up to much to get 
to a little bigger lathe, and bigger is pretty much better overall I 
think.  A Southbend heavy 10 is better in every way compared to the 9" 
workshop.  And for chinese stuff, the generic 12" or 13" swing lathes seem 
to be a decent bit of lathe for the money.

Hell, I think I'd actually rather have one of the chinese mini-lathes over 
a 6" Atlas, for that matter.  Swing and capabilities are similar with 
_way_ better parts support.  Those cost ~$500 new (with some blueprinting 
usually required).

In short... No way in hell would I buy a 6" Atlas for $900.  At $200 I 
might consider it.

Mark

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Tue Aug  9 11:01:55 2011
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 10:01:55 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe
In-Reply-To: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C514D0B231F457DAB9C5C57DFC2B48B@DesktopPC>

Scott
It appears that you're in or near Georgia.
(I found the lathe you're describing on your local craigslist).
If you're willing to drive to FLA, then maybe
you'd want to consider another Sears/Atlas lathe with
6" swing and 18" bed, reduced from $1100 to $350.
seller is Ed Lips 941-627-5681, he's in Pt Charlotte FL.
I have no interest in this item.
Good luck!
Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
-----Original Message----- 
From: Scott Hall
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 9:03 AM
To: Shop Talk List
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe

There's a Sears Atlas lathe for sale locally.  From the pictures, it
looks like an overgrown bench lathe sitting on a wood cabinet.  Nothing
like the Monarchs I usually keep my eye out for.  And he wants $900--you
can usually find CKs for $1500-ish.  On the price alone, I'd rather
spend twice that and drive for a nice(r) Monarch.

But it's local, and I understand these things used to be popular, and
what do I know?  Is it worth going to look at?  It's an Atlas 618 or
Sears 101.214.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
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From cavanadd at frontier.com  Tue Aug  9 11:27:15 2011
From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 10:27:15 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe
In-Reply-To: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E416DF3.1080301@frontier.com>

If it has flat ways, pass.  If it has V ways, maybe.  Other things you 
want is a quick change gear box, back gears, threading dial and as much 
tooling as possible.  Hopefully a QC tool post.

Scott Hall wrote:
> There's a Sears Atlas lathe for sale locally.  From the pictures, it
> looks like an overgrown bench lathe sitting on a wood cabinet. Nothing
> like the Monarchs I usually keep my eye out for. And he wants $900--you
> can usually find CKs for $1500-ish. On the price alone, I'd rather spend
> twice that and drive for a nice(r) Monarch.
>
> But it's local, and I understand these things used to be popular, and
> what do I know? Is it worth going to look at? It's an Atlas 618 or Sears
> 101.214.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Tue Aug  9 11:54:22 2011
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mt. Vernon WA)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 10:54:22 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe
Message-ID: <p9w3rxh59h2esl0jat0gye5d.1312912462909@email.android.com>

Sorry, it is $450, not $350.

Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA

Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA <gsteve at hammatt.com> wrote:

>Scott
>It appears that you're in or near Georgia.
>(I found the lathe you're describing on your local craigslist).
>If you're willing to drive to FLA, then maybe
>you'd want to consider another Sears/Atlas lathe with
>6" swing and 18" bed, reduced from $1100 to $350.
>seller is Ed Lips 941-627-5681, he's in Pt Charlotte FL.
>I have no interest in this item.
>Good luck!
>Steve Hammatt
>Mount Vernon WA USA
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Scott Hall
>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 9:03 AM
>To: Shop Talk List
>Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe
>
>There's a Sears Atlas lathe for sale locally.  From the pictures, it
>looks like an overgrown bench lathe sitting on a wood cabinet.  Nothing
>like the Monarchs I usually keep my eye out for.  And he wants $900--you
>can usually find CKs for $1500-ish.  On the price alone, I'd rather
>spend twice that and drive for a nice(r) Monarch.
>
>But it's local, and I understand these things used to be popular, and
>what do I know?  Is it worth going to look at?  It's an Atlas 618 or
>Sears 101.214.
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve at hammatt.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gsteve at hammatt.com

From lee at automate-it.com  Tue Aug  9 13:52:59 2011
From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 14:52:59 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing hardening-type Permatex No. 1
In-Reply-To: <001f01cc556c$4b6c27f0$e24477d0$@ameritech.net>
References: <001f01cc556c$4b6c27f0$e24477d0$@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <dcda674aa5afe4d4f546d4cefb9b4632.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>

> "Permatex says isopropyl alcohol works on cured material..."

You might need to heed the second sentence from the Permatex tech data sheet:

"The product can be removed from metal surfaces with
isopropyl alcohol. If the sealant has been dried for a
long time or at high temperatures, cover the sealant
with alcohol and allow to soften overnight."

- Lee

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Tue Aug  9 19:32:12 2011
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 20:32:12 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up: New house / underground oil tank
In-Reply-To: <OF9639843B.A9BA8018-ON852578E7.003FACEB-852578E7.003FC597@mail.megageek.com>
References: <CA+k5suoc+qwU8iZm4CtKRgGQGmk4YKpZ0s+3aLr2jL+XL-0mBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF9639843B.A9BA8018-ON852578E7.003FACEB-852578E7.003FC597@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5sup1uu9KSHBQG0t3+v-mb_+uX5SX4d+Cyg+aO-mN8u0=QA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 6:19 AM,  <eric at megageek.com> wrote:
> There was (and still is, I think) a exemption for gas stations that didn't
> do high volume. B I know there are a few even here in NJ that never had to
> pull their tanks (but they will soon.)
>

Not in federal law.  It was an absolute drop-dead date, publicized for
over a decade.  Anyone who couldn't comply with it was, well, less
than competent.  The law went into effect in 1988, and required new
tanks to meet the requirements, but allowed existing, non-failed tanks
to continue to be used without change until 22 Dec 1998.  At that
point, they had to be in compliance, or the operator faced fines.
(Which included economic benefit fines: what the EPA thought you made
by selling fuel from your illegal tanks, plus the interest you were
earning on the money you didn't spend to upgrade the tanks (even if
you didn't have the money), plus a substantial per tank fine, plus the
ability to increase the fines if they decided there were environmental
damages.)

There's no good reason not to have removed an underground oil tank
twenty years ago, and anyone who buys a property with such a tank is a
fool.  You are acquiring potentially unlimited liability based on the
actions of someone else, with no benefit.


--
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Tue Aug  9 20:42:15 2011
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 21:42:15 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing hardening-type Permatex No. 1
In-Reply-To: <dcda674aa5afe4d4f546d4cefb9b4632.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>
References: <001f01cc556c$4b6c27f0$e24477d0$@ameritech.net>
	<dcda674aa5afe4d4f546d4cefb9b4632.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>
Message-ID: <002401cc5707$1e5709f0$5b051dd0$@ameritech.net>

Ummm, yeah.  I read that too.  I've had a part sealed in a baggie with 92%
isopropyl since Saturday evening, but no obvious softening yet...

Thanks though !
Karl



-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Daniels
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Removing hardening-type Permatex No. 1

> "Permatex says isopropyl alcohol works on cured material..."

You might need to heed the second sentence from the Permatex tech data
sheet:

"The product can be removed from metal surfaces with isopropyl alcohol. If
the sealant has been dried for a long time or at high temperatures, cover
the sealant with alcohol and allow to soften overnight."

- Lee

From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Tue Aug  9 22:45:05 2011
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 21:45:05 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] in ground oil tank
References: <mailman.19.1312826410.22561.shop-talk@autox.team.net> 
Message-ID: <9A63C305B9194AEE9BD928ACAF1DA04F@delld520>

I agree that any tank should be removed while the liability is someone
else's.  If you are planning to take it out anyway there is nothing to be
gained except the value of the oil, not insignificant but. . . would you go
two years without fire insurance to save the same amount?

And one correction to a reply: it isn't 
" The environmentalists have made this process nothing less than
catastrophic if you don't have insurance (or if your coverage doesn't cover
the clean up.' it's the environment.  600 gallons of oil in one spot into
the local water table is not a good way to make friends with your new
neighbors.  It could easily spread a good ways and screw up quite a few
wells (and probably septic systems as well, killing the good stuff).

Mark Miller

From jandkstone99 at msn.com  Wed Aug 10 09:11:24 2011
From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 10:11:24 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Flashlight bulbs
In-Reply-To: <OF7B46790D.B15D808D-ON852578E7.004CC248-852578E7.004D04A1@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF7B46790D.B15D808D-ON852578E7.004CC248-852578E7.004D04A1@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <COL115-W49B7515698D9FFC9C4C041CC230@phx.gbl>

I know you live in a fairly remote area, but is it so remote that you don't
have a good hardware store nearby?  I found the 18 volt light bulb for my Sear
cordless light at my local Ace Hardware and recently found an obscure bulb for
something else (I forgot what) at Radio Shack.  Not as convenient as online
shopping, but a lot better than paying two shipping charges.

> To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net
> From: eric at megageek.com
> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 09:44:05 -0400
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Flashlight bulbs
>
> I'm trying to figure out why this is such a hard task!
>
> I've got 2 different brand flashlights and I can't find any place that
> carries both bulbs.
>
> I want to order replacements, but I want to do it from a place that
> carries both.  Does anyone have any recommendations for online places with
> a great selection?
>
> The bulbs are xpr24volt .45A  and blc60018x  (black and decker 24volt  and
> a dewalt 18 volt cordless kits.)
>
> TIA
>
> Moose
> "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational
> being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph
> Waldo Emerson
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com

From shop at shariconglobal.com  Wed Aug 10 12:49:12 2011
From: shop at shariconglobal.com (Aric)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 14:49:12 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe
In-Reply-To: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <927805D6422946A69D7BA85E21DC2AC6@Tablet>

An Atlas 6x18 for $900?  Take a pass on it, as that's more than I paid for
my Craftsman/Atlas 12x36 (which came with a decent amount of tooling).  No
way a C/A 6x18 is worth anywhere near that.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 
> [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Scott Hall
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:03 PM
> To: Shop Talk List
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears Atlas lathe
> 
> There's a Sears Atlas lathe for sale locally.  From the 
> pictures, it looks like an overgrown bench lathe sitting on a 
> wood cabinet.  Nothing like the Monarchs I usually keep my 
> eye out for.  And he wants $900--you can usually find CKs for 
> $1500-ish.  On the price alone, I'd rather spend twice that 
> and drive for a nice(r) Monarch.
> 
> But it's local, and I understand these things used to be 
> popular, and what do I know?  Is it worth going to look at?  
> It's an Atlas 618 or Sears 101.214.
> _______________________________________________

From shop at shariconglobal.com  Fri Aug 12 17:32:17 2011
From: shop at shariconglobal.com (Aric)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 19:32:17 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Gutting a cottage and suffering from shipwright's
 disease / scope creep
In-Reply-To: <927805D6422946A69D7BA85E21DC2AC6@Tablet>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
	<927805D6422946A69D7BA85E21DC2AC6@Tablet>
Message-ID: <5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>

Howdy All,

As I mentioned in another thread (the underground oil tank thing), we just
bought a property that needs an obscene amount of work (which explains why
we got it so cheap) and I'll be spending the next year rehabbing it.  The
main house is ~2300sq-ft and was built in 1825 (and was the original
schoolhouse for the area).  There's also a cottage on the property that's
roughly 800sq-ft that was built in the I

A couple questions:

1. Seeing as I have the main house, the cottage and a couple rooms in our
current house (which we're keeping) to paint, any thoughts on HVLP sprayers?
Do they live up to the hype?  I was less than impressed with the Wagner
sprayers I have (no idea how I got two of them...), but only because I could
never get more than 10 minutes of spraying out of it without it jizzing on
the wall.  I liked the texture it left (minus the jizz) and how quick it
went (if you discount time fixing the jizz), so am curious if I'll be happy
with the HVLP systems.

2. Long story short, I'm still not sure if the cottage should be renovated
or burned to the ground.  The owner's son, his wife and their 20-something
kid (and a 100+ pound rottie) were living in it the past couple years and
good lord, shanties I saw in a South African slum were kept cleaner.
Literally the only clear space to walk in it were the foot wide paths down
the center of the room and judging from the measureably thick layer of mouse
turds on every horizontal surface it's clear that cleanliness was not high
on their priority list.  Hell, just today I finally got around to poking at
the kitchen in there and found a pile of mouse turds literally 3" x 5" x 2"
high in the corner.  You can seriously _smell_ the house 40 feet away.  Ugh.

Anyway, point being the place is a mess and needs to be gutted.  I've
already taken down the paneling and ceiling tiles, and will start in on the
wall insulation tomorrow.  I'll also be pulling up the floors due to water
damage (and to get a look at the condition of the joists, which are
otherwise inaccessable).  Question is, should I pull the ceiling that was
covered by the tiles?  Most of it is still the 1920's plaster and lath, but
some is 1960's drywall (judging by the nails).  Given the amount of mouse
turds elsewhere I'm afraid if I don't pull it (and the insulation above)
I'll never get rid of the smell.  But dear lord, that's going to be an
unpleasant task and cleanup.  Thoughts?

3. Last question is regarding pulling the floors...  The cottage currently
has a gas fired hot water system that seems to work fine.  Problem is the
piping/radiators are going to make pulling the floors problematic,
especially since we'll be moving a wall or two.  I'm thinking if I cut them
out to make the rehab easier I may as well ditch the hot water system
altogether and put in a small central air system (we're in souteast PA, so
we do get 'winter', but not unreasonably so).  Thoughts on this?

Oh, as for shop content the property has a 30' x 40' garage/workshop that's
in need of a lot of work once I get the other two buildings fixed.  Very
much looking forward to moving my shop in there....

-aric.

From pj_thomas at comcast.net  Fri Aug 12 18:42:22 2011
From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:42:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Gutting a cottage and suffering from shipwright's
 disease / scope creep
In-Reply-To: <5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
	<927805D6422946A69D7BA85E21DC2AC6@Tablet>
	<5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>
Message-ID: <4E45C86E.8080001@comcast.net>

On 8/12/2011 7:32 PM, Aric wrote:


A couple questions:

1. Seeing as I have the main house, the cottage and a couple rooms in our
current house (which we're keeping) to paint, any thoughts on HVLP sprayers?
Do they live up to the hype?  I was less than impressed with the Wagner
sprayers I have (no idea how I got two of them...), but only because I could
never get more than 10 minutes of spraying out of it without it jizzing on
the wall.  I liked the texture it left (minus the jizz) and how quick it
went (if you discount time fixing the jizz), so am curious if I'll be happy
with the HVLP systems.



No experience with a HVLP, though I know woodworker prefer them for 
thicker finishes.  The low pressure gently lays the finish with out the 
micro air bubbles so it can properly flow.  I would assume same benefits 
for thicker paints like gloss.  Personally, I prefer rolling paint as it 
adheres better.  Professional paints I have experience with will only 
use sprayers for flat paint, they roll every thing else.  Even then flat 
paint still peels if sprayed.

I've also used consumer and professional Wagner sprayers.  The 
difference between the two is night and day.  Still prefer rolling and 
would only use a sprayer for things like louvers.

I tried one of those rollers that suck the paint into the handle and 
really liked it.  Was able to knock out a room quickly.  No going back 
to the tray few strokes.  No tray to step in.  Took a little getting 
used to but the beauty is if you get too much on you already have a 
roller.  Just guessing but it probably quicker than spraying.

Just some thoughts,

Peter T.

From bobkegel at comcast.net  Fri Aug 12 18:44:58 2011
From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:44:58 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Gutting a cottage and suffering from shipwright's
 disease / scope creep
In-Reply-To: <5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>
Message-ID: <F82E581FF48D421D91D9C11D98FFE54C@robertve2wc7wm>

Mouse turds ???

Hantavirus !!!

Burn it !!!

From malaboge at aol.com  Fri Aug 12 21:18:20 2011
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 23:18:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
Message-ID: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>

Fellow shop dwellersb&

I think I may have solved the drought problems for any small countryb&just
turn my compressor on and drain the water!  Seriously, Ibve got several
drains and a large water separator in my system and Ibve had it plumbed this
way for years. I drain and clean everything often.  Ibve been able to run
the system for hours blasting/sanding/cutting/whatever without liquid coming
out of every orifice until lately.  Now I have water spraying out of most
tools within 15 minutesb&nothing abnormal at the traps/separator.

Sob&what sort of driers do you have experience with?  Is the desiccant style
or the refrigerated type better?  Good points, bad points of either?  The
smaller units of each type are priced about the same, but I assume one is
better than the other.

Lemme no

Swimming at the workbenchb&Nick in Nor Cal

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Fri Aug 12 21:23:18 2011
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:23:18 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
Message-ID: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>

First, let me say that the truck will pull my car
trailer which carries some antique cars which
normally reside in my shop (therefore qualifying
for inclusion in the Shop Talk group<grin>).  I
wouldnbt consider starting this search without
tapping into the remarkable knowledge base
available from within this group!

Ibm in need of replacing our 2002 GMC 2500HD
4 passenger 6.0L with trailer package truck.  My
wife can still smell the VERY faint lingering odor
from a far distant smoker/owner.  So, time for
a replacement.  Ibll put around 12k b 15k miles
per year on it.

What I want is a crew-cab with short bed hauler
(used) that can handle up to 10,000 lb. on
the tag hitch.  Must be HD automatic, possibly
open to diesel, but am used to gasoline engines.

Ibm looking at a used truck, from 2006-2009,
with consideration of 1 year plus/minus due
to special circumstances.

My questions are:
1.  Dodge, GMC/Chevrolet, Ford?

2.  Depending on year and brand, are there
certain gas or diesel engines or transmission
packages to avoid (or strive for)?

3.  Any other features that you can think of
that I may be overlooking?

Super thanks
Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA

From cavanadd at frontier.com  Fri Aug 12 21:48:20 2011
From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:48:20 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Gutting a cottage and suffering from shipwright's
 disease / scope creep
In-Reply-To: <5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
	<927805D6422946A69D7BA85E21DC2AC6@Tablet>
	<5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>
Message-ID: <4E45F404.4030607@frontier.com>

As far as I'm concerned, HVLP guns are for furniture.  If  you have to 
paint a house or walls, rent an airless, or an old school pressure pot 
system.

The house sounds like enough work.  I would bulldoze the cottage; it 
sounds like a money pit and a health hazard.  If you do work in it and 
the rodent crap is anywhere near what you described, I would strongly 
recommend wearing a real honest to goodness respirator (NOT a dust mask) 
and a tyvek suit while I did all the demo and clean up.  Seriously, that 
thing sounds like bad news and you're never going to get all the stink 
out of it.  Torch it.

Aric wrote:
> we just
> bought a property that needs an obscene amount of work (which explains why
> we got it so cheap) and I'll be spending the next year rehabbing it.  The
> main house is ~2300sq-ft and was built in 1825 (and was the original
> schoolhouse for the area).  There's also a cottage on the property that's
> roughly 800sq-ft that was built in the I

From racertod at racertodd.com  Fri Aug 12 22:04:06 2011
From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:04:06 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20110812205942.00bde808@mail.avvanta.com>

         If the only reason you want to sell the truck is the smoke odor, 
have you tried using an ozone generator to get rid of the smell?
          A friend of mine bought a truck from a neighbor that was a 
smoker.  Both my friend and his wife are very sensitive to the smell of 
smoking.  On the recommendation of a detail shop, he went to a local rental 
place and rented an ozone generator.  Left it in the truck for a day and, 
according to their sensitive noses, that zapped the odor completely.


Todd
Seattle,WA
'86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 273,000 miles
'01 Golf TDI, silver.   (new work car)       297,000 miles
'87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car)   654,000 miles <- Gone to a new 
home :(
http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Fri Aug 12 22:40:16 2011
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 21:40:16 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20110812205942.00bde808@mail.avvanta.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20110812205942.00bde808@mail.avvanta.com>
Message-ID: <5A8ACFB4D73344879A254B44F9686948@DesktopPC>

I knew that I should have gone into a little more detail
with the odor problem.  We've tried THREE times to have
the truck professionally detailed and the smoke odor
removed (it wasn't that bad to start with, according to
my personal sniffer), but after up to 5 days with the
ozone generator each time, there is still an odor.  Everything
has been cleaned, etc., but the wife can still smell it.
Thanks
Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
-----Original Message----- 
From: Todd Walke
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 9:04 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks

         If the only reason you want to sell the truck is the smoke odor,
have you tried using an ozone generator to get rid of the smell?
          A friend of mine bought a truck from a neighbor that was a
smoker.  Both my friend and his wife are very sensitive to the smell of
smoking.  On the recommendation of a detail shop, he went to a local rental
place and rented an ozone generator.  Left it in the truck for a day and,
according to their sensitive noses, that zapped the odor completely.


Todd
Seattle,WA
'86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 273,000 miles
'01 Golf TDI, silver.   (new work car)       297,000 miles
'87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car)   654,000 miles <- Gone to a new
home :(
http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
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From shannahquilts at gmail.com  Fri Aug 12 23:57:38 2011
From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 22:57:38 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
References: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <CAAy7z=2-UeX1taU+h=YtOm6M9ejs4B3YBHMf_CE7HkQLW9hm5w@mail.gmail.com>

OK, I did read that you had taken the truck to
professional detailers, done the ozone treatments,
etc.

We had a similar problem (mold smell, not smoke)
with our 2005 Prius, and nobody could fix it, until
I took it to Luscious Garage, and they advised me
to spray Lysol in the air intake between the windshield
and the hood.  I thought the guy was nuts, but I did it,
and that did the job.  We thought we were going to have
to sell the car, it was so bad.  We kept it from coming
back by keeping the car on "fresh" rather than "recirc."

Additionally, when quilters have quilts that have a bad
smoke smell to them, they seal them into a plastic bag
with one or more bars of deodorant soap (unwrapped)
for a few days.  I've done it to other textiles, and it does
work.

In regards to what you should replace the truck with,
were it me, I would check Consumer Reports, check on
how many recalls and what types, things like that.
I think that personal advice is good, but I think it's also
good to pair it with statistics.

I can understand why your wife would object to the smoke
smell.  Even just a small amount triggers my asthma, and
there's nothing worse than being out on the road and not
being able to breathe suddenly.  I do carry albuterol, but it's
still unpleasant.

Shannah

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sat Aug 13 01:32:30 2011
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 03:32:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
References: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <4E46288E.6000402@xxiii.com>

On 8/12/2011 11:23 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote:
> First, let me say that the truck will pull my car
> trailer which carries some antique cars which
> normally reside in my shop (therefore qualifying
> for inclusion in the Shop Talk group<grin>).  I
> wouldnbt consider starting this search without

Don't own one myself, but I'll share what I've heard from friends. 
First, I don't think there's much difference in reliability between 
major brands, EXCEPT for Chrysler, which seems to make junk.  A friend 
has had multiple vehicles from them, and every one has been an 
unreliable failure-prone money pit;  but for some reason he keeps going 
back to them.  Plus I just despise Chrysler as a company.  Their 
inconsistent marketing is an insult to any car guy with a memory.  In 
the 90s we were inundated with the wonders of "cab forward", and now 
they're building retro fugly pig-mobiles;  so which is it??

Another guy has a 2001 Chevy or GMC (same diff anyway, right?) gas V8 
that has over 200K miles of commuting, highway runs, and towing and has 
been great for him, except for some rust and electrical issues.  However 
it's old enough now, I'm not sure it's representative of GM's newer 
products.  He insists diesel is really the way to go for any major towing.

#3 is a 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 4WD with towing package.  Don't know if 
you're considering "imports" but I think they're made in Indiana.  No 
major problems, but I don't think it's lived up to Toyota's supposedly 
legendary reliability.  Had a couple recall issues with ball joints and 
other stuff.  They did at least stand behind the product and proactively 
recall instead of just ignoring it and charging for repairs.  It's had 
the AC fail, and some flaky battery charging issues.  It's low miles, 
but he pulls a trailer with smaller Kubota equipment, and loans it out 
to friends and family for towing tasks.  VERY responsive V8 32 valve, 
either a 4.0 or 4.5L IIRC??

#4 guy that's on his 2nd or 3rd F150.  Not sure if it's the 6 or V8. 
Only does light towing, if any but has a custom bed enclosure for a 
construction biz.  Haven't heard of any probs with it.  Ford has sold, 
what?  Over 600,000 some years?  Must be doing something right!

-HTH, Wayne

From fishplate at gmail.com  Sat Aug 13 05:38:02 2011
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 07:38:02 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <4E46288E.6000402@xxiii.com>
References: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
	<4E46288E.6000402@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CM_JGna24LNbJHxE+3LZxMncCJnFVpwXS0qB_tgyyLpQw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 3:32 AM, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> #4 guy that's on his 2nd or 3rd F150.  Not sure if it's the 6 or V8

I guarantee it's not a V6.  I bought one on the promise of better fuel
economy.  It wasn't worth it.  I can pull a trailer, but every time I
climb a hill, the Check Engine light comes on.  Faugh!

EcoBoost is a V6 made for towing, but it's brand new for the trucks
(it's been in cars for a few years), and so doesn't meet the OP's
criteria.  I'd go with an F-250 diesel, depending on the weight of the
trailer.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

From shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org  Sat Aug 13 07:21:32 2011
From: shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org (shop-talk2 at mcfetridge.org)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 09:21:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
References: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <MTAwMDAxMC5tY2ZldHJpaQ.1313241680@quikprotect>

If you like the truck you have (other than the smell!), I'd recommend
another one.  I believe GM updated their trucks in 2007 with the 6-speed
transmission that should net you better mileage and help with towing--note,
they still made the GMT-800 like what you have in HD along with the GMT-900
that had the 6-speed auto).  I would not recommend the diesel unless you tow
a lot.  Personally, I love a diesel for the fun factor (modify it), but they
are really expensive to buy and don't save much on fuel unless you tow a
lot, in my experience (we have an F350 dually diesel and our 2007 Silverado
gas engine gets better mileage except for when towing).  Looks like there
are good number available in your area via autotrader:  40 quad cab
Chevy/GMCs within 100 miles.



I like the autotrac (automatic shifting into 4x4) on the = ton GM trucks,
but 10,000 lbs towing is pushing it for them, IMO.



Happy hunting,

Ian

From badgermt at cableone.net  Sat Aug 13 08:18:27 2011
From: badgermt at cableone.net (Badger Mountain Motorworks)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 07:18:27 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <5A8ACFB4D73344879A254B44F9686948@DesktopPC>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20110812205942.00bde808@mail.avvanta.com>
	<5A8ACFB4D73344879A254B44F9686948@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <4E4687B3.5050308@cableone.net>

/7HAU73: Permission denied

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Sat Aug 13 08:24:00 2011
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 10:24:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <4E46288E.6000402@xxiii.com>
References: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
	<4E46288E.6000402@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1108131005250.53391@itonami.pair.com>

On Sat, 13 Aug 2011, Wayne wrote:
> #4 guy that's on his 2nd or 3rd F150.  Not sure if it's the 6 or V8. Only 
> does light towing, if any but has a custom bed enclosure for a construction 
> biz.  Haven't heard of any probs with it.  Ford has sold, what?  Over 600,000 
> some years?  Must be doing something right!

    Almost 1 million 2005 F150s, actually.  Best-selling vehicle for 30 
years, which is incomprehensible.  I've only had one, but it has been a 
very good truck.

Ian wrote...
> If you like the truck you have (other than the smell!), I'd recommend
> another one.  I believe GM updated their trucks in 2007 with the 6-speed
> transmission that should net you better mileage and help with 
> towing--note, they still made the GMT-800 like what you have in HD along 
> with the GMT-900 that had the 6-speed auto).  I would not recommend the 
> diesel unless you tow a lot.  Personally, I love a diesel for the fun 
> factor (modify it), but they are really expensive to buy and don't save 
> much on fuel unless you tow a lot, in my experience (we have an F350 
> dually diesel and our 2007 Silverado gas engine gets better mileage 
> except for when towing).  Looks like there are good number available in 
> your area via autotrader:  40 quad cab Chevy/GMCs within 100 miles.

    If mileage is at-all a concern, stay away from the GM Duramax diesel 
engines.  Towing the same trailer on the same route, we got 8 mpg with an 
'07 Chevy 2500 diesel, 12 mpg with my gas 5.4 F150 ( 50% better! ), and 
over 15 with an '05 Ford F250 diesel.  I never spent so much time and 
money at gas stations as that one season when we hauled my racecar with 
that damn Chevy.  Everyone I know has the same experience with them, very 
nice truck if you have your own oil field.

    In the OP's shoes, I would buy a 6.4 litre Powerstroke Ford F250 ( the 
6.0s had some reliability issues ).  Depending on how big his trailer is, 
and how far he's going with it, I might even look at gas F150s.  Mine is 
rated for 9300 pounds, and is a pretty comfortable daily driver for the 
300 days a year that I'm not towing something.

--
  David Hillman

From jibjib at att.net  Sat Aug 13 09:28:09 2011
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 08:28:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] SMELLS RE: Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up
 trucks
In-Reply-To: <CAAy7z=2-UeX1taU+h=YtOm6M9ejs4B3YBHMf_CE7HkQLW9hm5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
	<CAAy7z=2-UeX1taU+h=YtOm6M9ejs4B3YBHMf_CE7HkQLW9hm5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26CD3D275C1646A6A0C35A37E79AA724@EntCent>

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Shannah Miller
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 10:58 PM
To: Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA
I inherited a car with both mold and smoke smell.  I dried it out and left
the windows open for weeks.  I had essentially given up, but decided to try
one last desperate measure.  I used a large clamp to hold a can of Lysol so
that it sprayed without me holding it open.  I put that in the car and left
it there with the windows and doors closed, for 48 hours.  

I had to clean the inside of the windows, but the smells were gone.

Jack  

From eric at megageek.com  Sat Aug 13 12:05:00 2011
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 14:05:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks
In-Reply-To: <D17D039D8EBF4DB7B94896DCE0C41A78@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <OFF9EDC1B2.A804A91A-ON852578EB.0064B7A1-852578EB.0064F5A0@mail.megageek.com>

I just did some research for our dive unit to replace a truck there.  What 
I found was that SUVs are much more plentiful and cheaper for the same 
price.

Any guy that swings a hammer for a living is buying used PU trucks.  But 
there is a glut of REALLY nice SUVs (especially the biggest ones) that are 
going for a song.

These trucks are well cared for and never saw a dirt road, not to 
mentioned pull a trailer.

Unless you are pulling a 5th wheel, I'd look into them as well.

Moose
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 




"Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" <gsteve at hammatt.com> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
08/12/2011 23:08

To
"Shop Talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
cc

Subject
[Shop-talk] Recommendations wanted re: used pick-up trucks






First, let me say that the truck will pull my car
trailer which carries some antique cars which
normally reside in my shop (therefore qualifying
for inclusion in the Shop Talk group<grin>).  I
wouldnbt consider starting this search without
tapping into the remarkable knowledge base
available from within this group!

Ibm in need of replacing our 2002 GMC 2500HD
4 passenger 6.0L with trailer package truck.  My
wife can still smell the VERY faint lingering odor
from a far distant smoker/owner.  So, time for
a replacement.  Ibll put around 12k b 15k miles
per year on it.

What I want is a crew-cab with short bed hauler
(used) that can handle up to 10,000 lb. on
the tag hitch.  Must be HD automatic, possibly
open to diesel, but am used to gasoline engines.

Ibm looking at a used truck, from 2006-2009,
with consideration of 1 year plus/minus due
to special circumstances.

My questions are:
1.  Dodge, GMC/Chevrolet, Ford?

2.  Depending on year and brand, are there
certain gas or diesel engines or transmission
packages to avoid (or strive for)?

3.  Any other features that you can think of
that I may be overlooking?

Super thanks
Steve Hammatt
Mount Vernon WA USA
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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Unsubscribe/Manage: 
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From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com  Sat Aug 13 16:03:53 2011
From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 18:03:53 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>

I suspect your piston rings are badly worn......Unless your humidity has
been exceptionally high.....

Don't try to paint anything in this condition....

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Sat Aug 13 18:08:22 2011
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 19:08:22 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CA+7Nz3ppfYsX4-1XdNm8AKHmakD7HZh99=ey64JTaFR4Gkxtnw@mail.gmail.com>

There is a pleasant solution!  My 1800 sq ft insulated shop is cooled by a 5
ton A/C unit
which sucks the moisture level down
to as little as 10% on my cheap humidity meter.
I only run the A/C when I'm  in the shop; 40-50 hours a month but it stays
very dry.  Not only
have I no condensate in the compressor, I stay comfortably cool!  Since I
only run the shop unit about one 15th of the time I run my home unit, (720
hours per month) it's very affordable, under $100 per month for 4 or five
months of Texas summer.  Tony






On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:18 PM, <malaboge at aol.com> wrote:

> Fellow shop dwellersb&
>
> I think I may have solved the drought problems for any small countryb&just
> turn my compressor on and drain the water!  Seriously, Ib ve got several
> drains and a large water separator in my system and Ib ve had it plumbed
> this
> way for years. I drain and clean everything often.  Ib ve been able to run
> the system for hours blasting/sanding/cutting/whatever without liquid
> coming
> out of every orifice until lately.  Now I have water spraying out of most
> tools within 15 minutesb&nothing abnormal at the traps/separator.
>
> Sob&what sort of driers do you have experience with?  Is the desiccant
> style
> or the refrigerated type better?  Good points, bad points of either?  The
> smaller units of each type are priced about the same, but I assume one is
> better than the other.
>
> Lemme no
>
> Swimming at the workbenchb&Nick in Nor Cal
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eltonclark at gmail.com
>
>


-- 

*The problems we face today are there because the people who work
for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.*

From malaboge at aol.com  Sat Aug 13 22:07:32 2011
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 00:07:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
Message-ID: <8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>

Hmmm...interesting hypothesis

The weather here is HOT...but then that's not anything new round here.  I try
to do the "heavy lifting", compressor-wise, early in the AM when its only in
the 80's...no idea of the humidity, but this is normal weather here and
haven't had this much problem in the past.

Anyone have a clue what sort of compression figures I might be looking for as
a bit-o-diagnostics?
Figure I can find some way to do a dry and then wet compression test with a
little thought.  Since I know it will pump up to the tank blow off pressure,
I'll need some way to monitor/count the number of revolutions on the pump to
duplicate the tests...any thoughts?

There's always some kinda pressure...
Nick in Nor Cal







-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Brazil <gerrybraz at cablespeed.com>
To: malaboge <malaboge at aol.com>; shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2011 3:03 pm
Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?


I suspect your piston rings are badly worn......Unless your humidity has
een exceptionally high.....
Don't try to paint anything in this condition....

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Sun Aug 14 07:26:45 2011
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 09:26:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com><004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <A6616CFBF7294FB18FF7AC50193C31C1@EricJRussellPC>

If the rings were worn, it seems to me that the problem you'd see is oil in 
the air, not water. Are you sure it is water coming out?

If indeed it is water, how are your air lines plumbed? There should be a 
slope towards a drain point & the take off for the tool's air supply should 
come off the top of a horizontal run. Do you drain the tank regularly?

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell 

From fishplate at gmail.com  Sun Aug 14 07:39:40 2011
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 09:39:40 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:07 AM,  <malaboge at aol.com> wrote:
> The weather here is HOT...but then that's not anything new round here.  I
try
> to do the "heavy lifting", compressor-wise, early in the AM when its only
in
> the 80's...no idea of the humidity, but this is normal weather here and
> haven't had this much problem in the past.

Humidity at a particular time of day isn't the problem.  The humidity
may change, but the moisture in the air remains the same.  As the air
heats up, its capacity to hold water increases -- thus, the same
moisture content results in lower humidity in hot air, since the warm
air can absorb yet more moisture.

As for a sudden increase in water in the lines...Are you sure you are
draining the tank completely?  I can see a scenario where water could
build up in the tank, until one day it rises to the level of the
outlet, and all of the sudden water is getting blown out with the air.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.  --  where we are familiar with humidity

From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com  Sun Aug 14 07:53:22 2011
From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 09:53:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <002201cc5a89$893d5820$9bb80860$@cablespeed.com>

Why not try an old fashioned compression test? Disconnect the pipe going
into the tank and hold a compression tester to it tightly. Have somebody
turn on the compressor and try to hold on. 

 

In order to get a good idea you need to do the same test on a friends air
compressor and see what kind of difference you have. 

 

I wore out a compressor on my first machine. Since the motor and tank were
still good I just replaced the compressor..I got another 5 years and then I
upgraded to a larger capacity compressor. 

From malaboge at aol.com  Sun Aug 14 11:12:51 2011
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:12:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <A6616CFBF7294FB18FF7AC50193C31C1@EricJRussellPC>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com><004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com><8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<A6616CFBF7294FB18FF7AC50193C31C1@EricJRussellPC>
Message-ID: <8CE28BC88468104-E70-40F40@webmail-d014.sysops.aol.com>

Yeah its definitely water...
I run the air out of the tank into a "maze" of vertical pipes with drains at
the bottom of each run, and yes the hose comes off at the top of the last
vertical pipe.  When blasting or using any tool for any amount of time, I
usually drain everything about every half an hour.  Don't usually get much out
of the drains, but get some vapor and a bit of water out of the water trap.
This has worked until recently and now a DA will spit water in just a few
minutes...enough to make holding on to the sander an annoying and wet
experience!




-----Original Message-----
From: Eric J Russell <ejrussell at mebtel.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 14, 2011 6:27 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?


If the rings were worn, it seems to me that the problem you'd see is oil in
he air, not water. Are you sure it is water coming out?
If indeed it is water, how are your air lines plumbed? There should be a
lope towards a drain point & the take off for the tool's air supply should
ome off the top of a horizontal run. Do you drain the tank regularly?
Eric Russell
ebane, NC
ttp://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell
______________________________________________
Shop-talk at autox.team.net
onate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
uggested annual donation  $12.96
rchive: http://www.team.net/archive
orums: http://www.team.net/forums
nsubscribe/Manage:
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From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sun Aug 14 12:41:14 2011
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:41:14 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Gutting a cottage and suffering from shipwright's
 disease / scope creep
In-Reply-To: <5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
	<927805D6422946A69D7BA85E21DC2AC6@Tablet>
	<5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>
Message-ID: <6ADDABB7-7E8E-4113-8EF7-5A5240F4E5F5@groupwbench.org>

On Aug 12, 2011, at 7:32 PM, Aric wrote:
> There's also a cottage on the property that's
> roughly 800sq-ft that was built in the I

The date was truncated...but I'm assuming 1920s from the plaster comment
below.
>  Given the amount of mouse
> turds elsewhere I'm afraid if I don't pull it (and the insulation above)
> I'll never get rid of the smell.  But dear lord, that's going to be an
> unpleasant task and cleanup.  Thoughts?

I have done this in a house about half as bad as yours. As much of a
preservationist as I am, there are some things too far gone to preserve.
Biohazard contamination is on that list.

You could always pop into Loe's and see what it would cost to replace the
post0gut structure, and ask your self if it's worth it to you. But the
biohazard has soaked into all the wood. I don't think you'll ever really get
rid of it.

If you decide to go for it, get a good organic respirator and lab bunny tyvek
suit that covers your head, and eye protection.

If you're in an incorporated area, might be worth a visit to the town and ask
their advice. They may pay you to have the Fire Dept burn it to practice on.


>
> 3. Last question is regarding pulling the floors...  The cottage currently
> has a gas fired hot water system that seems to work fine.  Problem is the
> piping/radiators are going to make pulling the floors problematic,
> especially since we'll be moving a wall or two.  I'm thinking if I cut them
> out to make the rehab easier I may as well ditch the hot water system
> altogether and put in a small central air system (we're in souteast PA, so
> we do get 'winter', but not unreasonably so).  Thoughts on this?

What will you use the cottage for? Small systems in a small house will be
drafty and hard to regulate since there's no mass buffer. As a guest house
it's probably fine to go with air, but I'm not a fan.

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sun Aug 14 12:52:28 2011
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:52:28 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5suoZJ-LhAWeZ_opA8QEOSRiW7kuFkJjV2+Pb6Y4GyOzJZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
\
> As for a sudden increase in water in the lines...Are you sure you are
> draining the tank completely? B I can see a scenario where water could
> build up in the tank, until one day it rises to the level of the
> outlet, and all of the sudden water is getting blown out with the air.
>

This.  turn the compressor off, open the tank stopcock and let all the
air and water drain out.  When you think it's done, don your eye
protection, and probe the stop cock's opening.  (Better, remove it,
but that's asking for not being able to reinstall it...)  You may well
find there's some thing (rust flakes, scale, godzilla) blocking the
free flow of water out the system.  Do the same at all your drains.

I've also seen a tank where the bottom stop cock was connected to an
anti-dip tube, so that you couldn't drain the tank.  (It was an
industrial application, it's entirely possible the tank was mounted
upside down from the original application, where a dip tube would work
to blow water out of the tank.


--
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From malaboge at aol.com  Sun Aug 14 13:11:29 2011
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:11:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <CA+k5suoZJ-LhAWeZ_opA8QEOSRiW7kuFkJjV2+Pb6Y4GyOzJZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com><004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com><8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com><CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+k5suoZJ-LhAWeZ_opA8QEOSRiW7kuFkJjV2+Pb6Y4GyOzJZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CE28CD1AE60A01-2180-20D4D@Webmail-d104.sysops.aol.com>

Ok kids...stay tuned, I'm gonna try pullin the drain valves and see what I
find...hope its not Godzilla !!!

time for a shower...
Nick in Nor Cal



-----Original Message-----
From: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
To: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 14, 2011 11:56 am
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?


On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:

 As for a sudden increase in water in the lines...Are you sure you are
 draining the tank completely? B I can see a scenario where water could
 build up in the tank, until one day it rises to the level of the
 outlet, and all of the sudden water is getting blown out with the air.

This.  turn the compressor off, open the tank stopcock and let all the
ir and water drain out.  When you think it's done, don your eye
rotection, and probe the stop cock's opening.  (Better, remove it,
ut that's asking for not being able to reinstall it...)  You may well
ind there's some thing (rust flakes, scale, godzilla) blocking the
ree flow of water out the system.  Do the same at all your drains.
I've also seen a tank where the bottom stop cock was connected to an
nti-dip tube, so that you couldn't drain the tank.  (It was an
ndustrial application, it's entirely possible the tank was mounted
pside down from the original application, where a dip tube would work
o blow water out of the tank.

-
avid Scheidt
mscheidt at gmail.com
______________________________________________
Shop-talk at autox.team.net
onate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
uggested annual donation  $12.96
rchive: http://www.team.net/archive
orums: http://www.team.net/forums
nsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/malaboge at aol.com

From malaboge at aol.com  Sun Aug 14 16:19:16 2011
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 18:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] the continuing water saga
Message-ID: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>

well I pulled the drain in the bottom of the tank and gave it the finger...up
the hole that is...no tube or anything obstructing the interior.  Actually
only got a few drops of water out of the tank when I removed the drain.  To
empty the tank I hooked up a blow gun and let it run down.  About half way
thru the tank, the air gun was blowing a nice mist of water out the end...and
yes I've even taken the hose out and laid on the hill in full sunshine for a
day to dry it out as well!

Guess I'm gonna buy one of the refrigerated driers.  It seems easier than the
desiccant units as there is no maintenance to them...any thoughts?

this is just weird...
Nick of Nor Cal

From shannahquilts at gmail.com  Sun Aug 14 17:11:49 2011
From: shannahquilts at gmail.com (Shannah Miller)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:11:49 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] the continuing water saga
In-Reply-To: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAAy7z=0uMiESprVxVdO=yF1Ab9ZjkOa+d0nwMq3RhRV85WRn_Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm no expert on refrigeration, so I have no clue if this
is related, but I'm in San Jose, and my bedroom a/c
has been gurgling and spitting from time to time this
year, and that's unusual.  The air that comes out of it
is humid.  So maybe this year is just more humid than
usual?

I'm in favor of low/no maintenance.  If I need to get a
drier, I'll go look at the refrigerated ones, as well.

Shannah

From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sun Aug 14 17:17:10 2011
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 19:17:10 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] the continuing water saga
In-Reply-To: <CAAy7z=0uMiESprVxVdO=yF1Ab9ZjkOa+d0nwMq3RhRV85WRn_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAAy7z=0uMiESprVxVdO=yF1Ab9ZjkOa+d0nwMq3RhRV85WRn_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EB315BD8-6837-482B-8B96-9CB0F14DC304@groupwbench.org>

On Aug 14, 2011, at 7:11 PM, Shannah Miller wrote:

> I'm no expert on refrigeration, so I have no clue if this
> is related, but I'm in San Jose, and my bedroom a/c
> has been gurgling and spitting from time to time this
> year, and that's unusual.  The air that comes out of it
> is humid.  So maybe this year is just more humid than
> usual?

Window ACs that spit are usually tilted inwards so they can't drain. All that
condensation needs to go somewhere so make sure it's tilted outwards. That
standing water can harbor a lot of mold.

From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com  Sun Aug 14 18:17:05 2011
From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 20:17:05 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] the continuing water saga
In-Reply-To: <EB315BD8-6837-482B-8B96-9CB0F14DC304@groupwbench.org>
References: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAAy7z=0uMiESprVxVdO=yF1Ab9ZjkOa+d0nwMq3RhRV85WRn_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<EB315BD8-6837-482B-8B96-9CB0F14DC304@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <006101cc5ae0$ab46f4b0$01d4de10$@cablespeed.com>

Also, drain holes get plugged up with dust, lint, etc.....

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sun Aug 14 18:51:29 2011
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 20:51:29 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Gutting a cottage and suffering from shipwright's
 disease / scope creep
In-Reply-To: <6ADDABB7-7E8E-4113-8EF7-5A5240F4E5F5@groupwbench.org>
References: <4E415A4E.4060104@gmail.com>
	<927805D6422946A69D7BA85E21DC2AC6@Tablet>
	<5CB0A1221B5540D7BA33FB097CD505E6@Tablet>
	<6ADDABB7-7E8E-4113-8EF7-5A5240F4E5F5@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <4E486D91.9000603@xxiii.com>

On 8/14/2011 2:41 PM, Jim Franklin wrote:
> If you're in an incorporated area, might be worth a visit to the town and ask
> their advice. They may pay you to have the Fire Dept burn it to practice on.

Ooohhh!  FIRE!  FIRE!  I hadn't thought of that option, though the place 
does strike me as too far gone to mess with fixing up.  Maybe you could 
get some tax kick back for doing that?  It would at least be fun to cook 
something over it, but given all the talk of mouse poo and filth, that 
would not be a good idea.  Throw some stuff on your grill a hundred feet 
away, and give your commendable hard working local fire fighters a high 
five and a burger when it's done  :)

-wayne

From eric at megageek.com  Mon Aug 15 06:09:18 2011
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:09:18 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
Message-ID: <OF4211ADB2.5984591C-ON852578ED.00442610-852578ED.004464D3@mail.megageek.com>

OK, now that the oil tank removal is behind me, I'm working on my next 
major project, installing a well.

I currently have a spring well for my water, but I wanted to go to an 
inground well.  I'm told that it's expensive, $7K to $12K so I'm looking 
here for any advice.

I know very little about wells and wondering if someone here could give me 
the pros and cons of installation.  What should I look for/ look out for?

OB SHOP CONTENT- (do we really still need this?)  8>)  but the water also 
supplies my shop.  8>)

Moose
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 08:45:14 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:45:14 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
In-Reply-To: <OF4211ADB2.5984591C-ON852578ED.00442610-852578ED.004464D3@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF4211ADB2.5984591C-ON852578ED.00442610-852578ED.004464D3@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4E4930FA.7020904@gmail.com>

Eric,

I own two houses with wells, have replaced the pump on one, and after 
three years in running battle with it, am about to do some serious 
'maintenance' to the other.

Having said that, I know probably about as much as you.  I don't know 
what having a spring well entails (versus an in-ground well, which I 
have), but if what you have now is working, I'd keep it.  I have horror 
stories.

It seems to me that this is one of those things where you either get a 
good one or you don't, and if you don't it's better to just move.  There 
are like three parts to a well system (pump, switch, tank), yet with 
that relatively simple system, I am without useable water at at least 
one house at any given time.

Alternatively, get a subterranean well at your house, become expert in 
the whole system, and explain it to me.  God knows I need the 
education.  I'm about to have a new one dug because the one at the 
second house with a well keeps silting up.  The 'well' itself is fine, 
but the whole-house filtering-and-cleaning system it requires to produce 
drinkable water is a bit extreme.

Alternatively, the well at my mom's house has been there since 1986 and 
has never had a second's worth of trouble, and zero maintenance.  So...YMMV.

Scott

On 8/15/2011 8:09 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> OK, now that the oil tank removal is behind me, I'm working on my next
> major project, installing a well.
>
> I currently have a spring well for my water, but I wanted to go to an
> inground well.  I'm told that it's expensive, $7K to $12K so I'm looking
> here for any advice.
>
> I know very little about wells and wondering if someone here could give me
> the pros and cons of installation.  What should I look for/ look out for?

From eric at megageek.com  Mon Aug 15 08:31:00 2011
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:31:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
In-Reply-To: <4E4930FA.7020904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFAEBAEF6A.6B0B81B5-ON852578ED.005113E6-852578ED.00515DD8@mail.megageek.com>

Thanks for the feedback.

To clarify what I have is a spring well box.  Literally, it's a concrete 
box that a spring keeps filled up.  I've never really had problems with 
it, but it seems that there are biological issues with this set up.  Lots 
of stuff gets in there and dies.  Then, I still have some small sediments 
in my water.  I need to install a filter, but right now, if I did, it 
would most likely need to be cleaned daily! 

With an inground well, I remove the biological aspect pretty much.  Then, 
since my water table is about 4' (and that is also my frost line) I can't 
image this being a tough process.

If I need water, I can dig a hole with a shovel and get it flowing 
quickly.  8>0

Moose
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational 
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph 
Waldo Emerson 




Scott Hall <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
08/15/2011 10:25

To
shop-talk at autox.team.net
cc

Subject
Re: [Shop-talk] Well water installation






Eric,

I own two houses with wells, have replaced the pump on one, and after 
three years in running battle with it, am about to do some serious 
'maintenance' to the other.

Having said that, I know probably about as much as you.  I don't know 
what having a spring well entails (versus an in-ground well, which I 
have), but if what you have now is working, I'd keep it.  I have horror 
stories.

It seems to me that this is one of those things where you either get a 
good one or you don't, and if you don't it's better to just move.  There 
are like three parts to a well system (pump, switch, tank), yet with 
that relatively simple system, I am without useable water at at least 
one house at any given time.

Alternatively, get a subterranean well at your house, become expert in 
the whole system, and explain it to me.  God knows I need the 
education.  I'm about to have a new one dug because the one at the 
second house with a well keeps silting up.  The 'well' itself is fine, 
but the whole-house filtering-and-cleaning system it requires to produce 
drinkable water is a bit extreme.

Alternatively, the well at my mom's house has been there since 1986 and 
has never had a second's worth of trouble, and zero maintenance. 
So...YMMV.

Scott

On 8/15/2011 8:09 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> OK, now that the oil tank removal is behind me, I'm working on my next
> major project, installing a well.
>
> I currently have a spring well for my water, but I wanted to go to an
> inground well.  I'm told that it's expensive, $7K to $12K so I'm looking
> here for any advice.
>
> I know very little about wells and wondering if someone here could give 
me
> the pros and cons of installation.  What should I look for/ look out 
for?
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
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From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 09:24:11 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:24:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
In-Reply-To: <OFAEBAEF6A.6B0B81B5-ON852578ED.005113E6-852578ED.00515DD8@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFAEBAEF6A.6B0B81B5-ON852578ED.005113E6-852578ED.00515DD8@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4E493A1B.1020709@gmail.com>

Hm.  I think all the pertinent information is local, but:

Our water table is also very shallow here.  They still go at least 50 
feet down (and I think rarely that shallow), partly for biological 
reasons.  And there are still biological issues--wells here are 
frequently pulled here because of fungus, mold, etc. stuff found in the 
water...which they don't know about until after someone gets sick.  
That's avoiding your actual micro-'local' issues (like where your septic 
field is, your neighbor(s)' fields are, or where they were fifty years 
ago).  The guy drilling the well should know how far away your local 
code requires he drill from your septic system, but he won't know about 
the one there before that your new one replaced, or the old outhouse 
cesspool, or any of the other reasons you might have to end up having 
the well re-dug.  So don't think that with subterranean wells a lot of 
that goes away--it just gets put on the end of a pipe sixty feet down, 
and requires paying someone first to dig, then install (and re-install) 
with a gantry crane.  Really, if you have the time, space, and 
inclination, I'd get a truck and dig your own setup.  You might have to 
get licensed where you are, and that might actually be cheaper in the 
long run.  It would have been for me, and I've not had half of the 
issues other people have.

I have sediment filters on one house.  It requires changing once a 
week.  Seriously.  It only takes thirty minutes, but once a week gets 
old fast.  I left it (the filter element) out once to see what'd 
happen.  I get to re-plumb part of the house because sediment closed up 
the lines.  I'm not done with that yet.

I guess what I'm saying is if what you have works, consider not messing 
with it.  I'd change to a spring-fed concrete box on the surface in a 
heartbeat if I could.  At least then all my issues would be where I 
could deal with them myself if I had to.

Or...you might get lucky like my mom.  Anything could happen.

If you do go through with it, keep the list updated.  I'm stuck with my 
wells and I've got to get a handle on them.


On 8/15/2011 10:31 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> To clarify what I have is a spring well box.  Literally, it's a concrete
> box that a spring keeps filled up.  I've never really had problems with
> it, but it seems that there are biological issues with this set up.  Lots
> of stuff gets in there and dies.  Then, I still have some small sediments
> in my water.  I need to install a filter, but right now, if I did, it
> would most likely need to be cleaned daily!
>
> With an inground well, I remove the biological aspect pretty much.  Then,
> since my water table is about 4' (and that is also my frost line) I can't
> image this being a tough process.
>
> If I need water, I can dig a hole with a shovel and get it flowing
> quickly.  8>0

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 09:30:20 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:30:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] the continuing water saga
In-Reply-To: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4E493B8C.9020602@gmail.com>

No thoughts on what you should get other than I was just thinking to ask 
the same question of the list--and about making my own, too.

I'm about to upgrade to a bigger compressor and was thinking of making 
an intercooler to put between the compressor and the tank.  Basically 
remove the copper line and plumb it instead to an old a/c A-frame 
condenser sunk in a 55-gallon drum of water.  Or maybe skip the water 
and just have a fan blow over the A-frame?  Then a water trap between 
the 'intercooler' setup and the tank?

I'm not married to that setup specifically, more asking opinions on the 
merits of desiccating the water before it gets to the tank.  We 
more-or-less stay near 100% humidity here most of the year, and I was 
hoping to spare the tank some rust if I could.  Would I be crippling my 
ultimate output pressure or flow with something like that?

On 8/14/2011 6:19 PM, malaboge at aol.com wrote:
> well I pulled the drain in the bottom of the tank and gave it the finger...up
> the hole that is...no tube or anything obstructing the interior.  Actually
> only got a few drops of water out of the tank when I removed the drain.  To
> empty the tank I hooked up a blow gun and let it run down.  About half way
> thru the tank, the air gun was blowing a nice mist of water out the end...and
> yes I've even taken the hose out and laid on the hill in full sunshine for a
> day to dry it out as well!
>
> Guess I'm gonna buy one of the refrigerated driers.  It seems easier than the
> desiccant units as there is no maintenance to them...any thoughts?

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 09:46:56 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:46:56 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>

Hm...are you sure about that?  It's been a long time since my earth 
science classes, but I seem to remember that as the air heats up, it'll 
hold more water.  So if there was a fixed amount of water available, 
your explanation would be correct.  Since there isn't, as it gets 
hotter. the air would hold more water.  This seems to play out here 
(where we make Georgia look like the cool Patagonian desert), where the 
humidity stays fairly constant according to our humidistats throughout 
the day (or year, even) even as it clears 100 degrees F.  And it 
certainly *feels* more oppressive and sticky.

On 8/14/2011 9:39 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> Humidity at a particular time of day isn't the problem.  The humidity
> may change, but the moisture in the air remains the same.  As the air
> heats up, its capacity to hold water increases -- thus, the same
> moisture content results in lower humidity in hot air, since the warm
> air can absorb yet more moisture.
>
> As for a sudden increase in water in the lines...Are you sure you are
> draining the tank completely?  I can see a scenario where water could
> build up in the tank, until one day it rises to the level of the
> outlet, and all of the sudden water is getting blown out with the air.
>
> Jeff Scarbrough
> Corrosion Acres, Ga.  --  where we are familiar with humidity

From fishplate at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 10:43:04 2011
From: fishplate at gmail.com (Jeff Scarbrough)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:43:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Scott Hall
<scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hm...are you sure about that?  It's been a long time since my earth science
> classes, but I seem to remember that as the air heats up, it'll hold more
> water.

Yep.  In general.

> So if there was a fixed amount of water available, your explanation
> would be correct.  Since there isn't, as it gets hotter. the air would hold
> more water.

Well, that depends.  In many (most?) places, there isn't a ready
supply of moisture to be taken up by the atmosphere, beyond plant
respiration or something like that.

> This seems to play out here (where we make Georgia look like
> the cool Patagonian desert), where the humidity stays fairly constant
> according to our humidistats throughout the day (or year, even) even as it
> clears 100 degrees F.

Depends on where "here" is.  If you live next to a large body of
water, then yes, that's possibly the case.  But what happens to all
that water as the air cools?  Must be like a rain forest.  I just bet
it feels "oppressive and sticky.  And then some.

Anyway, I was just generally trying to describe the difference between
Relative Humidity, which is, well, relative, and moisture content of
the air as a volume/volume relation; and thus why running the
compressor in the morning vs. afternoon might not make much
difference.

Jeff Scarbrough
Atmospheric Physics Acres, Ga.

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 11:11:36 2011
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:11:36 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+7Nz3pDyy3fieGqV9+gp4YHLcymz=o2np4vfxTDQVX3a-kXJw@mail.gmail.com>

*I never did it but I once thought of rigging a shop-made*
*drier in my air system using bulk calcium chloride.  CC is extremely good
at absorbing water from air; they use it on dirt race tracks to absorb water
enough water to control dust.  We once bought it from a Coca-Cola bottling
plants*
*or concrete bulk plants **for cheap in 100 pound sacks.*
**
*I was thinking I could use an old air tank or compressor tank plumbed in
the air system,  down-stream from all the lines and drains for use only in
moisture critical applications: painting and such.*
**
*One would have to plumb the air to waft through the CC*
*and provide a drain for collected moisture.  I guess it could be used on
the intake side of the compressor as well; wouldn't need a pressure vessel
in that case.*
*Tony*

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Mon Aug 15 11:27:22 2011
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:27:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
In-Reply-To: <OF4211ADB2.5984591C-ON852578ED.00442610-852578ED.004464D3@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF4211ADB2.5984591C-ON852578ED.00442610-852578ED.004464D3@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <4E4956FA.1070700@xxiii.com>

On 8/15/2011 8:09 AM, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> OK, now that the oil tank removal is behind me, I'm working on my next
> major project, installing a well.

I've had one [well system] for the last 9.5 years, and by necessity have 
learned a lot about them.

#1  Get a BIG ASS pressure tank.  You really can not go too large.  You 
need one that lets the pump run for a minute or more.  It's the storage 
buffer between the well and house.  Electric motors LIKE to run for a 
sustained period, not on - off - on -off.  That will burn up the pump 
motor and run up your electric bill.  Many (most?) well companies will 
try to install a little tank to keep the cost attractive.  If a company 
proposes such in their quote, RUN AWAY and seek someone else.  My house 
had a little 20 gallon tank that had 5 gallons of "draw down". So the 
11.5 gallon/minute pump ran for less than 30 seconds per cycle.  Since 
doing it right [myself] I have an 82 gallon Flexcon Inc, "Flex Lite" 
tank that does 22 gallons draw down at 60 psi.  The pump runs for just 
over 2 minutes a cycle, oh yeah !  It is hard to sense the vibes from my 
well pump 180 feet down, but I think it's much happier.  In Western 
North Carolina, I'd recommend Appalachian Well and Green River Well.

#2 try to get a "pitless adapter" vs an out the top pipe.  You Do not 
have to worry about them freezing.  [assuming you are in most of the 
country that occasionally freezes]

#3 get a PVC or stainless steel sleeve in the ground.  Using other 
materials that rapidly rust makes for short longevity and rust in your 
water.

#4 I like to support my local vendors as much as possible, but in this 
case none of them were wiling to come close to price.  These guys are a 
vendor I recommend:   http://www.wwpp.com/

-wayne

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 12:13:23 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:13:23 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E4961C3.4060709@gmail.com>

On 8/15/2011 12:43 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> Well, that depends. In many (most?) places, there isn't a ready supply 
> of moisture to be taken up by the atmosphere, beyond plant respiration 
> or something like that.

Ah.  We have standing water all over the place here.  You see, we don't 
'do' storm sewers here, we just build holding ponds for all that water.  
Also called 'Florida Mosquito Breeding Pools'.

Though, come to think of it, this is the first year in maybe a decade 
that we haven't experienced drought conditions all summer.  And those 
summers, the humidity hovered near 100% too.  Well, okay, to be less 
hyperbolic, it usually stays in the mid-80-percent, but it will go up 
frequently.

It's insane here.  A lot.

> Depends on where "here" is. If you live next to a large body of water, 
> then yes, that's possibly the case. But what happens to all that water 
> as the air cools? Must be like a rain forest. 

It is, in fact, just like subtropical rain forest here.  I mean, it 
varies, but it's never actually 'dry' here.

> I just bet it feels "oppressive and sticky. And then some. Anyway, I 
> was just generally trying to describe the difference between Relative 
> Humidity, which is, well, relative, and moisture content of the air as 
> a volume/volume relation; and thus why running the compressor in the 
> morning vs. afternoon might not make much difference. Jeff Scarbrough 
> Atmospheric Physics Acres, Ga.

Naw, I'm with you.  I'm not sure how much difference it would make 
morning versus afternoon.

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 12:16:48 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:16:48 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <CA+7Nz3pDyy3fieGqV9+gp4YHLcymz=o2np4vfxTDQVX3a-kXJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+7Nz3pDyy3fieGqV9+gp4YHLcymz=o2np4vfxTDQVX3a-kXJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E496290.9020407@gmail.com>

My thought was that you'd want to try and dry the air after it was 
heated?  Or rather that cooling it rapidly after the heat from the 
compression stage might be easier and more effective?

On 8/15/2011 1:11 PM, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote:
> *I never did it but I once thought of rigging a shop-made*
> *drier in my air system using bulk calcium chloride.  CC is extremely good
> at absorbing water from air; they use it on dirt race tracks to absorb water
> enough water to control dust.  We once bought it from a Coca-Cola bottling
> plants*
> *or concrete bulk plants **for cheap in 100 pound sacks.*
> **
> *I was thinking I could use an old air tank or compressor tank plumbed in
> the air system,  down-stream from all the lines and drains for use only in
> moisture critical applications: painting and such.*
> **
> *One would have to plumb the air to waft through the CC*
> *and provide a drain for collected moisture.  I guess it could be used on
> the intake side of the compressor as well; wouldn't need a pressure vessel
> in that case.*

From arvidj at visi.com  Mon Aug 15 13:47:18 2011
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:47:18 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] the continuing water saga
In-Reply-To: <4E493B8C.9020602@gmail.com>
References: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>
	<4E493B8C.9020602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <742D854F96EE492388C917CF5EB02AF5@HP62011>

I can give you data from my air cooled after cooler that might be relevant 
... or maybe not.

When I bought my air compressor I opted for the air cooled after cooler. It 
is designed specifically for the application. It is 18 inches wide, 8 inches 
high and 1.5 inches thick. It has 1 inch inlets and outlets and has 15 
[guesstimate] 3/8 inch outside diameter finned tubes running from the inlet 
to the outlet manifold. It rated for 35 CFM though the pressure drop at that 
flow rate was not stated. It is mounted on the belt guard and is right next 
to the large pump pulley. The pulley acts as a fan to draw air over the 
cooler and the pump when it runs. The compressor is in the basement so the 
ambient temperature is right around 70 all year.

I do remember being somewhat awestruck by both how high the input 
temperature was ... I expected lower ... and how low the output temperature 
was ... considerably lower than what I had expected given the simplicity of 
the setup.  The inlet is well past 200 degrees ... the exact value escapes 
me at the moment but 250 to 260 seems to ring a bell ... and the outlet was 
under 80 degrees ... again 76 seemed to be what I remember.

I have a refrigerator unit, Have not had a problem with water ... other than 
the auto drain isn't as auto as it should be ... so I have never gotten 
around to hooking it up. Probably should be a Craig's List item.

I'd forgo the hassle of the water drum and simply use a big fan.

Arvid

-----Original Message----- 
From: Scott Hall
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 10:30 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] the continuing water saga

No thoughts on what you should get other than I was just thinking to ask
the same question of the list--and about making my own, too.

I'm about to upgrade to a bigger compressor and was thinking of making
an intercooler to put between the compressor and the tank.  Basically
remove the copper line and plumb it instead to an old a/c A-frame
condenser sunk in a 55-gallon drum of water.  Or maybe skip the water
and just have a fan blow over the A-frame?  Then a water trap between
the 'intercooler' setup and the tank?

I'm not married to that setup specifically, more asking opinions on the
merits of desiccating the water before it gets to the tank.  We
more-or-less stay near 100% humidity here most of the year, and I was
hoping to spare the tank some rust if I could.  Would I be crippling my
ultimate output pressure or flow with something like that?

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 14:38:40 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:38:40 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] the continuing water saga
In-Reply-To: <742D854F96EE492388C917CF5EB02AF5@HP62011>
References: <8CE28E7569EA431-186C-5F163@webmail-m154.sysops.aol.com>
	<4E493B8C.9020602@gmail.com>
	<742D854F96EE492388C917CF5EB02AF5@HP62011>
Message-ID: <4E4983D0.3080502@gmail.com>

That's mostly what I wonder about--how much pressure will I be giving up 
(if any) with a cooler system before the tank.  The pressure switch is 
mounted on the tank, so I assume it'll direct the compressor pump to 
keep pumping until it reaches whatever pressure it's set for...if it 
can.  But I don't want to restrict it so much that I get 30 seconds of 
full-pressure then have to wait for it to recover because I've throttled 
it so much.  I've seen finned plates on those lines before, but it seems 
to me that the water still ends up in the tank.  I thought it'd be nice 
to capture it before it has the change to get in there and rust 
something.  At least to the extent possible.

The water drum was more of an interesting thought to me--without a 
radiator of its own it's just a heat sink.  Which is fine, but that's 
not necessarily what I'm after.  I thought about getting a pump and 
maybe even refrigerating the water, but at some point we're just getting 
crazy.  :-)

On 8/15/2011 3:47 PM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote:
> I can give you data from my air cooled after cooler that might be 
> relevant ... or maybe not.
>
> When I bought my air compressor I opted for the air cooled after 
> cooler. It is designed specifically for the application. It is 18 
> inches wide, 8 inches high and 1.5 inches thick. It has 1 inch inlets 
> and outlets and has 15 [guesstimate] 3/8 inch outside diameter finned 
> tubes running from the inlet to the outlet manifold. It rated for 35 
> CFM though the pressure drop at that flow rate was not stated. It is 
> mounted on the belt guard and is right next to the large pump pulley. 
> The pulley acts as a fan to draw air over the cooler and the pump when 
> it runs. The compressor is in the basement so the ambient temperature 
> is right around 70 all year.
>
> I do remember being somewhat awestruck by both how high the input 
> temperature was ... I expected lower ... and how low the output 
> temperature was ... considerably lower than what I had expected given 
> the simplicity of the setup.  The inlet is well past 200 degrees ... 
> the exact value escapes me at the moment but 250 to 260 seems to ring 
> a bell ... and the outlet was under 80 degrees ... again 76 seemed to 
> be what I remember.
>
> I have a refrigerator unit, Have not had a problem with water ... 
> other than the auto drain isn't as auto as it should be ... so I have 
> never gotten around to hooking it up. Probably should be a Craig's 
> List item.
>
> I'd forgo the hassle of the water drum and simply use a big fan.

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 15:25:07 2011
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 16:25:07 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <4E496290.9020407@gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+7Nz3pDyy3fieGqV9+gp4YHLcymz=o2np4vfxTDQVX3a-kXJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E496290.9020407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+7Nz3oOfKiJp+zAM9iDBqbNtK6ZEj=Di0uoB3E=htk7MRtTtw@mail.gmail.com>

*Saturday, with the big doors open for a few hours, the humidity-meter on my
desk at the shop read 42 %.*

*Last week, with the shop sealed and with 5 ton of a/c running, the meter
was reading 8 - 10% here in the North Texas area. *
**
*Tony*

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 15:31:18 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:31:18 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <CA+7Nz3oOfKiJp+zAM9iDBqbNtK6ZEj=Di0uoB3E=htk7MRtTtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+7Nz3pDyy3fieGqV9+gp4YHLcymz=o2np4vfxTDQVX3a-kXJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E496290.9020407@gmail.com>
	<CA+7Nz3oOfKiJp+zAM9iDBqbNtK6ZEj=Di0uoB3E=htk7MRtTtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E499026.2020000@gmail.com>

Lightweight.  :-)

The humidistat on my desk reads 35% right now, indoor, which, come to 
think of it, is the lowest I've ever seen it.

It's 56% outside right now, also the lowest I remember seeing it.  Hm.  
It was almost comfortable today.  Nice.  Supposed to get down to 65 
degrees tonight, too.  Praise Flying Spaghetti Monster.

On 8/15/2011 5:25 PM, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote:
> *Saturday, with the big doors open for a few hours, the humidity-meter 
> on my desk at the shop read 42 %.*
> *Last week, with the shop sealed and with 5 ton of a/c running, the 
> meter was reading 8 - 10% here in the North Texas area. *
> **
> *Tony*

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 16:57:07 2011
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:57:07 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Run air tools on a water hose?
In-Reply-To: <4E496290.9020407@gmail.com>
References: <8CE277EC8FA6E59-1AB4-13F1E@Webmail-d118.sysops.aol.com>
	<004701cc5a04$e4ec6b50$aec541f0$@cablespeed.com>
	<8CE284ED3088BE9-1E44-2590B@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
	<CAO8Q7CN8+to+Sso8jR6ykao_7B_fcdTpTgthnx2P_S0aOaaTPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E493F70.3090709@gmail.com>
	<CAO8Q7CPSJzfTgzYjY6-EdPm5eQ1zsEWDkfwS2cJiUVjc2Dxhnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+7Nz3pDyy3fieGqV9+gp4YHLcymz=o2np4vfxTDQVX3a-kXJw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E496290.9020407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5supwKamZv971HY12FET7v3x1p-g5eoCRdZFqH7GPtzreXA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Scott Hall
<scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
> My thought was that you'd want to try and dry the air after it was heated?
> B Or rather that cooling it rapidly after the heat from the compression
stage
> might be easier and more effective?
>

You want to cool it after it's compressed.  Cooling the air -- by
expanding it to run an air tool, say -- causes the moisture to
condense, and spray out the hose.  An refrigerated dryer works by
cooling the air, causing the water to condense at the cooler, where it
can be drained out.  Chemical driers do it by adsorbing the water,
usually, and can be regenerated by heating them to drive the water
off.

Most systems have enough air in them that the air cools off, and the
water condenses out, usually into the tank, where it can be drained,
or at least isn't expelled out hte hose.


--
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From jferguson at bellsouth.net  Mon Aug 15 17:41:52 2011
From: jferguson at bellsouth.net (Jim Ferguson)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 19:41:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
In-Reply-To: <4E493A1B.1020709@gmail.com>
References: <OFAEBAEF6A.6B0B81B5-ON852578ED.005113E6-852578ED.00515DD8@mail.megageek.com>
	<4E493A1B.1020709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E49AEC0.2020305@bellsouth.net>

I had a spring tank system that worked well for about 30 years without a 
problem.  I kept the spring enclosed and always had "spring lizards" 
(salamanders) in it.  They are very sensitive creatures and are like the 
canary in the mine on warning of problems with the water.  The people in 
the country around here used these automatic water tester-cleaners for 
generations without problems.  The water from my spring tank was always 
very clear and clean but it was very acid.  I had to install a injector 
pump to get the pH up to acceptable levels.  I was dissolving my copper 
pipes.

Then a new neighbor drilled a well about 300 feet from my spring and my 
flow rate dropped dramatically. During a dry period it almost stopped.  
Fortunately the county had put in water lines about 500 yds through the 
wood on an adjacent road.  I connected to the water line for a more 
reliable source.  My spring system has since returned to a very good 
flow since the neighbor moved and the new owner is only an occasional 
resident.  So I have a reserve if needed.

I would be cautious of drilling a well too close to the spring or you 
could loose the spring.  If you have a good reliable flow from the 
spring I would build a good shelter enclosing the spring, get some 
lizards and a pH tester and use it.  That assumes the lizard is alive 
and well.  The enclosure should keep out most of the surface water silt 
and critters.  I use screen wire on the inlet side of the tank.

From rwil at sbcglobal.net  Mon Aug 15 21:40:18 2011
From: rwil at sbcglobal.net (Roland Wilhelmy)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 20:40:18 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
In-Reply-To: <4E49AEC0.2020305@bellsouth.net>
References: <OFAEBAEF6A.6B0B81B5-ON852578ED.005113E6-852578ED.00515DD8@mail.megageek.com>
	<4E493A1B.1020709@gmail.com> <4E49AEC0.2020305@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <bepj47hbtn4hjjdlnu3uim0ldn4cf4g5au@4ax.com>

In our part of the country some lizards carry giardia, I learned from
direct experience.  At least when they are dead in your water tank
it't time for a couple of gallons of bleach.

-Roland

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 19:41:52 -0400, Jim wrote:

::I had a spring tank system that worked well for about 30 years without a
::problem.  I kept the spring enclosed and always had "spring lizards"
::(salamanders) in it.  They are very sensitive creatures and are like the
::canary in the mine on warning of problems with the water.  The people in
::the country around here used these automatic water tester-cleaners for
::generations without problems.  The water from my spring tank was always
::very clear and clean but it was very acid.  I had to install a injector
::pump to get the pH up to acceptable levels.  I was dissolving my copper
::pipes.
::
::Then a new neighbor drilled a well about 300 feet from my spring and my
::flow rate dropped dramatically. During a dry period it almost stopped.
::Fortunately the county had put in water lines about 500 yds through the
::wood on an adjacent road.  I connected to the water line for a more
::reliable source.  My spring system has since returned to a very good
::flow since the neighbor moved and the new owner is only an occasional
::resident.  So I have a reserve if needed.
::
::I would be cautious of drilling a well too close to the spring or you
::could loose the spring.  If you have a good reliable flow from the
::spring I would build a good shelter enclosing the spring, get some
::lizards and a pH tester and use it.  That assumes the lizard is alive
::and well.  The enclosure should keep out most of the surface water silt
::and critters.  I use screen wire on the inlet side of the tank.

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 23:28:27 2011
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 00:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
In-Reply-To: <OFAEBAEF6A.6B0B81B5-ON852578ED.005113E6-852578ED.00515DD8@mail.megageek.com>
References: <4E4930FA.7020904@gmail.com>
	<OFAEBAEF6A.6B0B81B5-ON852578ED.005113E6-852578ED.00515DD8@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <CA+k5suqgsfzE-GB5RcYR5-_k=2Vw+CMsE2+G_coCRXwB26czSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 9:31 AM,  <eric at megageek.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> To clarify what I have is a spring well box.  Literally, it's a concrete
> box that a spring keeps filled up.  I've never really had problems with
> it, but it seems that there are biological issues with this set up.  Lots
> of stuff gets in there and dies.  Then, I still have some small sediments
> in my water.  I need to install a filter, but right now, if I did, it
> would most likely need to be cleaned daily!
>
> With an inground well, I remove the biological aspect pretty much.  Then,
> since my water table is about 4' (and that is also my frost line) I can't
> image this being a tough process.

Well, you're not going to have a well six feet deep.  You almost
certainly don't want to drink that water, particularly if you live in
an agricultural area, or area where there are septic systems.

How deep your contractor will drill depends on lots of local factors,
but they're very likely to want to drill at least fifty feet.  Some
places with high water tables have a clay layer, that seperates a
second water table, which they'll aim for, which can be a 200'.

One of the things a good professional will know is average depth of
wells in your neighborhood, what the contaimination issues are, how
hard the water is, how silty the water is, and so on.  Depending on
what the answers to those questions are, you might well find it makes
more sense to fix up your  spring.  There are various things that can
be done to remove silt from it, depending on its flow rate, and you
topography.

From tputland at charter.net  Tue Aug 16 11:46:40 2011
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:46:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Is this true?---Fw: eBay Motors Fee Class
 Action(6540054)
Message-ID: <436da04b.aebfb.131d3b3cbe1.Webtop.49@charter.net>

Anyone ever see any thing from this? I was never able to find somewhere 
to register as part of the suit.....

Thanks

Tim

 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Wayne wrote:

> On 1/16/2011 2:59 AM, Randall wrote:
>>> Does anyone know if there is a way to validate this as true
>>> or a scam?
>
> It appears legit.  And as Randal pointed out, they don't appear to be 
> trying to scam any info from anyone.  If there have been "copycat" 
> versions of it that are scams, well... neither a new scheme nor the 
> original guy's fault.
>
> I got it, and I have sold parts and a car during the time frame 
> stated.  It also came to my email address used exclusively for ebay, 
> which doesn't normally see any spam/scam messages.
>
> You can see the registration info for the domain name here:
> 
> http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/ebaymotorsfeeclassaction.com
>
> The "AB Data" company that owns it has a web site saying they do 
> "class action administration".  I'd like to know what the whole thing 
> is about.  I can not find any info on the alleged wrong doing that 
> prompted it.
>
> -Wayne
> ______

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Tue Aug 16 22:08:53 2011
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:08:53 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Well water installation
In-Reply-To: <4E4956FA.1070700@xxiii.com>
References: <OF4211ADB2.5984591C-ON852578ED.00442610-852578ED.004464D3@mail.megageek.com>
	<4E4956FA.1070700@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <8398D8C153EA494C9F5028A1ACC86E18@Meislaptop>

FWIW, my BIL (who works in a related field) mentioned a new "tankless"
system the other day.  Apparently it involves a VFD driving a 3-phase pump
motor at just the right speed to maintain the desired water pressure.  Not
sure of the details or advantages, but it might be something to look for.
They claim a considerable reduction in electricity usage with variable speed
swimming pool pumps, but of course a well pump is a different animal.

-- Randall

From bob at texmog.com  Thu Aug 18 13:54:56 2011
From: bob at texmog.com (Bob Nogueira)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:54:56 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Steel Car Port
Message-ID: <6B8A9FC1DC09446183EE7718703101AA@dellPC>

Guys, I need to build a car port so I can get more room in the garage to work
the cars that are not running.   Ibm thinking of building it all out of
steel. Basic structure would be four posts  with a perimeter frame  using  11
gauge   3 inch square steel tubing for the  posts and a 16b X 18b
rectangle on top of the posts. I would also use four  3b  by 1.5 inch  14
gauge  rectangle tubes as joists .
All  would be butt welded.   Covering would be  corrugated  steel panels. The
highest load would  about  4 inches of snow.

Question:   Am I pushing it by trying to spam 16 feet with a 3 inch 11 gauge
square steel tube?

I know some may think this is a dumb question but looking at  other carports
it seems that they are all over the place,  some  are built like a bridge
while others look like they shouldnbt be able to stand by themselves.
What I havenbt seen is any built from  3 inch steel tubing.


Thanks

Bob Nogueira

From tputland at charter.net  Fri Aug 19 15:03:34 2011
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 17:03:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] squeaky brakes
Message-ID: <3ecbb60d.d78af.131e3db2368.Webtop.49@charter.net>

I replaced the rear brakes pads on my daughter's 99 Toyota Solara today 
in hopes of eliminating the squeal when she backs up. They were in need 
of replacing (pretty thin on one side) but the squealer was not making 
contac. I didn't turn or replace the rotor since it was the rear AND 
they were in good shapes still.

After I was done I took the car out and it did not squeal on me, even 
during varied speeds backwards. Well, I just heard that they are still 
squealing at slow back up speed on my kid as she was leaving just now.

Any idea why?

shop content: I was in and out of my shop getting tools, etc.

Thanks.

Tim

From mistertwo at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug 19 15:13:28 2011
From: mistertwo at sbcglobal.net (Rand E)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] squeaky brakes
In-Reply-To: <3ecbb60d.d78af.131e3db2368.Webtop.49@charter.net>
References: <3ecbb60d.d78af.131e3db2368.Webtop.49@charter.net>
Message-ID: <1313788408.40477.YahooMailNeo@web82402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Drum brakes?  Be sure the shoes aren't rubbing against the backing plate when
applied.  That was the issue I had with a Celica a few months ago.  I also
found that when I applied the brakes and they squealed, if I pressed real hard
once they wouldn't squeal anymore on that trip.  
 
Randy
 
 
 

From: Tim
<tputland at charter.net>
>To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Sent: Friday, August 19,
2011 4:03 PM
>Subject: [Shop-talk] squeaky brakes
>
>I replaced the rear
brakes pads on my daughter's 99 Toyota Solara today 
>in hopes of eliminating
the squeal when she backs up. They were in need 
>of replacing (pretty thin on
one side) but the squealer was not making 
>contac. I didn't turn or replace
the rotor since it was the rear AND 
>they were in good shapes still.
>
>After
I was done I took the car out and it did not squeal on me, even 
>during
varied speeds backwards. Well, I just heard that they are still 
>squealing at
slow back up speed on my kid as she was leaving just now.
>
>Any idea why?
>
>shop content: I was in and out of my shop getting tools, etc.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Tim
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested
annual donation  $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums:
http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net

From tputland at charter.net  Fri Aug 19 15:18:14 2011
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 17:18:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] squeaky brakes
Message-ID: <29db18b.d7afd.131e3e88eac.Webtop.49@charter.net>

They are rear disc but is the parking brake included as well? Is that 
what that little drum is for? (I am learning all this as I go, hence my 
ignorance.) If that is the parking brake, can the squeal be adjusted out 
or do I need to replace the parking brake?

THANKS!

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Rand E wrote:

  Drum brakes?  Be sure the shoes aren't rubbing against the backing 
plate when applied.  That was the issue I had with a Celica a few months 
ago.  I also found that when I applied the brakes and they squealed, if 
I pressed real hard once they wouldn't squeal anymore on that trip.

Randy




From: Tim <tputland at charter.net>
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 4:03 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] squeaky brakes

I replaced the rear brakes pads on my daughter's 99 Toyota Solara today
in hopes of eliminating the squeal when she backs up. They were in need
of replacing (pretty thin on one side) but the squealer was not making
contac. I didn't turn or replace the rotor since it was the rear  AND
they were in good shapes still.

After I was done I took the car out and it did not squeal on me, even
during varied speeds backwards. Well, I just heard that they are still
squealing at slow back up speed on my kid as she was leaving just now.

Any idea why?

shop content: I was in and out of my shop getting tools, etc.

Thanks.

Tim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk at autox.team.net 
<javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('Shop-talk at autox.team.net')>
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive <http://www.team.net/archive>
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums <http://www.team.net/forums>
Unsubscribe/Manage: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net 
<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mistertwo at sbcglobal.net>

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 15:28:32 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 17:28:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] squeaky brakes
In-Reply-To: <29db18b.d7afd.131e3e88eac.Webtop.49@charter.net>
References: <29db18b.d7afd.131e3e88eac.Webtop.49@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4E4ED580.5080200@gmail.com>

The little drum is the parking brake.  I have no idea if that's the 
squeal, though.

On 8/19/2011 5:18 PM, Tim wrote:
> They are rear disc but is the parking brake included as well? Is that
> what that little drum is for? (I am learning all this as I go, hence my
> ignorance.) If that is the parking brake, can the squeal be adjusted out
> or do I need to replace the parking brake?
>
> THANKS!

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Fri Aug 19 17:46:13 2011
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:46:13 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] squeaky brakes
In-Reply-To: <3ecbb60d.d78af.131e3db2368.Webtop.49@charter.net>
References: <3ecbb60d.d78af.131e3db2368.Webtop.49@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CA+k5supkf=4CmWG97DLwU=CeibZLevD-OCXi+waUkkCLekTTjA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Tim <tputland at charter.net> wrote:
> I replaced the rear brakes pads on my daughter's 99 Toyota Solara today
> in hopes of eliminating the squeal when she backs up. They were in need
> of replacing (pretty thin on one side) but the squealer was not making
> contac. I didn't turn or replace the rotor since it was the rear AND
> they were in good shapes still.
>
> After I was done I took the car out and it did not squeal on me, even
> during varied speeds backwards. Well, I just heard that they are still
> squealing at slow back up speed on my kid as she was leaving just now.
>
> Any idea why?

It's got a drum-in-disc parking brake, and something is wrong with
your prking brake.  If you're lucky it's just misadjusted.  You might
need any or all of drums (which I'm pretty sure are one piece with the
rotor ), shoes, hardware, cable.




-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From tputland at charter.net  Sat Aug 20 20:00:05 2011
From: tputland at charter.net (Tim)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:00:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spray foam
Message-ID: <2b0766a0.91fd3.131ea10f6eb.Webtop.44@charter.net>

I need to continue the quest to seal my attic (and SHOP) against 
bats......

So, on that note, we've all seen the (industrial) spray foam used on the 
TV shows. Is this bulk sprayable product available to the general public 
in any way shape or form? Or is there any sort of alternative available 
to us mortals?

Thanks!

Tim

From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sat Aug 20 20:35:25 2011
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:35:25 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spray foam
In-Reply-To: <2b0766a0.91fd3.131ea10f6eb.Webtop.44@charter.net>
References: <2b0766a0.91fd3.131ea10f6eb.Webtop.44@charter.net>
Message-ID: <A022CC4B-AD5A-4744-8740-B11579F5B483@groupwbench.org>

On Aug 20, 2011, at 10:00 PM, Tim wrote:

> I need to continue the quest to seal my attic (and SHOP) against
> bats......
>
> So, on that note, we've all seen the (industrial) spray foam used on the
> TV shows. Is this bulk sprayable product available to the general public
> in any way shape or form? Or is there any sort of alternative available
> to us mortals?

My local lumberyard has some, but it seemed pricy ($350?) for the coverage
(long gone from my brain). And it was packaged as a one time use thing.

COuld have been http://www.tigerfoam.com/

but there are a bunch if you Google it.

jim

From cavanadd at frontier.com  Sat Aug 20 21:33:09 2011
From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:33:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spray foam
In-Reply-To: <2b0766a0.91fd3.131ea10f6eb.Webtop.44@charter.net>
References: <2b0766a0.91fd3.131ea10f6eb.Webtop.44@charter.net>
Message-ID: <4E507C75.60602@frontier.com>

Actually I haven't seen it on TV, because I don't watch TV, but I think 
you're talking about spray polyurethane foam. You could probably talk to 
an industrial roofing contractor or roofing supplier about purchasing 
some, but it won't be cheap.  It's pretty nasty stuff, like Great Stuff 
foam in a can on steroids.  You don't want to wear any clothes you plan 
on keeping if you use it.

Tim wrote:
> I need to continue the quest to seal my attic (and SHOP) against
> bats......
>
> So, on that note, we've all seen the (industrial) spray foam used on the
> TV shows. Is this bulk sprayable product available to the general public
> in any way shape or form? Or is there any sort of alternative available
> to us mortals?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at frontier.com

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Sun Aug 21 12:49:36 2011
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:49:36 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spray foam
In-Reply-To: <4E507C75.60602@frontier.com>
References: <2b0766a0.91fd3.131ea10f6eb.Webtop.44@charter.net>
	<4E507C75.60602@frontier.com>
Message-ID: <CA+7Nz3rKWT0H77S6neFM1_NcLPWU0cDiHpw14ePWhQtkqMjkDw@mail.gmail.com>

*Twenty years ago, a contractor would come in and spray your building for
$.50 per square foot of applied foam. . Gawd knows what it would cost now.*
*Tony*

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Wed Aug 24 05:55:02 2011
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 06:55:02 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] leak down test
Message-ID: <956B3819745D49B1BA543DCDB3E7520F@OwnerPC>

Hi guys... got a ch20 Kohler engine on my cub cadet... replaced the head
gasket last year in August and I suspect it's bad again... it was suggested by
some Cub guys that  before I tear it apart I want to try a leak down test.
exactly how do you do that ???   compression gauge ??

thanks
John

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Wed Aug 24 07:49:39 2011
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:49:39 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] leak down test
In-Reply-To: <956B3819745D49B1BA543DCDB3E7520F@OwnerPC>
References: <956B3819745D49B1BA543DCDB3E7520F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <5E045453693D4BC79C61B5C7AF252B1B@EricJRussellPC>

More than a compression gauge - two gauges and a source of compressed air. 
One gauge is connected to the cylinder being tested via the spark plug hole 
to measure how well it holds pressure. The other gauge measures input air 
pressure. The engine is positioned at TDC on compression (valves closed) and 
the cylinder then pressurized (being careful as the engine could suddenly 
move). By comparing the input pressure vs the cylinder pressure one can 
compute how well the cylinder holds pressure. ex: if input pressure is 100 
psi and cylinder pressure is 95 psi then it is said the leak down is 5%. A 
really tight engine might measure 2%-3% leak down.

One of the main advantages of a leak down test is that with the cylinder 
thus pressurized one can listen at specific areas and pinpoint where the 
cylinder is leaking. Listen at the carb throat to check if the intake valve 
is leaking. Listen at the exhaust pipe for a leaky exhaust valve. Listen at 
an adjacent cylinder, in the cooling system, and around the outside of the 
block for a failed head gasket. Listen at the oil sump (via the oil fill 
usually) for leaky rings. Rings do typically leak a little bit so it is a 
judgment call to decide if they are OK or not.

Since I am frugal (OK, cheap...) I have made an eL-Cheapo version. No 
gauges, just a fitting that screws into the spark plug hole with an adapter 
for my air hose. Position the piston at TDC on compression, apply 80-100 psi 
(again being careful as the engine could suddenly move) then listen as 
described above. Usually for checking a used engine or diagnosing a problem 
I am less concerned about a specific leak down percentage and just want to 
know if/where there is a problem.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john niolon" <jniolon at bham.rr.com>
To: "shop-talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:55 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] leak down test


> Hi guys... got a ch20 Kohler engine on my cub cadet... replaced the head
> gasket last year in August and I suspect it's bad again... it was 
> suggested by
> some Cub guys that  before I tear it apart I want to try a leak down test.
> exactly how do you do that ???   compression gauge ??

From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com  Fri Aug 26 06:35:07 2011
From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:35:07 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question
Message-ID: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>

So it's 8:30; I'm 100 miles from home and have to leave here in an  
hour for a 60-mile drive to a job interview.

And the flex pipe on the exhaust broke wide open about 20 minutes ago.

The local muffler shop appears closed. (no one there, no answer on  
the phone; supposed to open at 8).

This is the left bank of a v6 Audi a4.

Suggestions?

Best I can think of is buy earplugs and don't park under the office  
window at the job interview.
Thanks
Matt

From parkanzky at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 06:56:53 2011
From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:56:53 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question
In-Reply-To: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>
References: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>
Message-ID: <005f01cc63ef$a2248e20$e66daa60$@com>

Wrap it about 20 times with some Aluminum tape and hope that muffles the
sound a bit?

Honestly, depending on my finances I'd probably just drive it as-is either
to the interview or to a car rental place and I'd deal with it afterwards.
It's going to be noisy as all get out but it will get you there.  

If you try to work on it much then you risk being dirty/frustrated/late for
your interview.  Ignore it and you'll be fresh as a daisy.

Good Luck,

-Paul P.

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Trebelhorn
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 8:35 AM
To: shoptalk
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question

So it's 8:30; I'm 100 miles from home and have to leave here in an  
hour for a 60-mile drive to a job interview.

And the flex pipe on the exhaust broke wide open about 20 minutes ago.

The local muffler shop appears closed. (no one there, no answer on  
the phone; supposed to open at 8).

This is the left bank of a v6 Audi a4.

Suggestions?

Best I can think of is buy earplugs and don't park under the office  
window at the job interview.
Thanks
Matt

From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com  Fri Aug 26 07:30:41 2011
From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 09:30:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question
In-Reply-To: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>
References: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>
Message-ID: <8756FA9B-5164-40D2-A2EA-00D8947AE2B5@trebelhorn.com>

Thanks, all.

Looks like some variation on grin and bear it.  I'll probably look  
for a shop right after the interview.

Matt

On 26 Aug, 2011, at 8:35 AM, Matt Trebelhorn wrote:

> So it's 8:30; I'm 100 miles from home and have to leave here in an  
> hour for a 60-mile drive to a job interview.
>
> And the flex pipe on the exhaust broke wide open about 20 minutes ago.
>
> The local muffler shop appears closed. (no one there, no answer on  
> the phone; supposed to open at 8).
>
> This is the left bank of a v6 Audi a4.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Best I can think of is buy earplugs and don't park under the office  
> window at the job interview.
> Thanks
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ 
> matt.lists at trebelhorn.com

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Fri Aug 26 08:30:14 2011
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:30:14 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question
In-Reply-To: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>
References: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>
Message-ID: <4E57ADF6.7030406@xxiii.com>

On 8/26/2011 8:35 AM, Matt Trebelhorn wrote:
> So it's 8:30; I'm 100 miles from home and have to leave here in an hour
> for a 60-mile drive to a job interview.
> And the flex pipe on the exhaust broke wide open about 20 minutes ago.

Good Luck with interview, Matt!  Don't know any good fix, though 
(amusing it's similar with the ones on my Nissans.)  Replacements can be 
quite pricey.  I was able to locate and buy a joint years ago (late 90s) 
and cut out the bad joint, "tack" the new one in with sheet metal screws 
and had the welder at work TIG it up for me.  But it was tough to even 
find anyone selling the flex joint by itself.  Might have been Jegs or 
Summit that I found it.  www.RockAuto.com has come along since then, and 
they're a good source for those kinda parts -- they probably have the 
whole exhaust piece for not too much.

I wouldn't trust the typical muffler shop to wrench on anything directly 
bolted to one of my engines!

-Wayne

From peterwmurray at gmail.com  Fri Aug 26 09:26:47 2011
From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:26:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question
In-Reply-To: <4E57ADF6.7030406@xxiii.com>
References: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>
	<4E57ADF6.7030406@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ8HLP93AQhiCBqBZamfBkYqZCDEzU4NH=ec9SpWpWT_+jnRXA@mail.gmail.com>

Shokan Used Audi Parts may have what you need, though that won't help
pre-interview.

http://www.shokan.com/

Good luck!

-Peter (former owner of two A4s (1998.5 sedan, 1999.5 Avant with the 2.8l V6)

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> On 8/26/2011 8:35 AM, Matt Trebelhorn wrote:
>>
>> So it's 8:30; I'm 100 miles from home and have to leave here in an hour
>> for a 60-mile drive to a job interview.
>> And the flex pipe on the exhaust broke wide open about 20 minutes ago.
>
> Good Luck with interview, Matt!  Don't know any good fix, though (amusing
> it's similar with the ones on my Nissans.)  Replacements can be quite
> pricey.  I was able to locate and buy a joint years ago (late 90s) and cut
> out the bad joint, "tack" the new one in with sheet metal screws and had
the
> welder at work TIG it up for me.  But it was tough to even find anyone
> selling the flex joint by itself.  Might have been Jegs or Summit that I
> found it.  www.RockAuto.com has come along since then, and they're a good
> source for those kinda parts -- they probably have the whole exhaust piece
> for not too much.
>
> I wouldn't trust the typical muffler shop to wrench on anything directly
> bolted to one of my engines!
>
> -Wayne
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.96
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com

From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sat Aug 27 13:35:02 2011
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 15:35:02 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Flooring for uneven basement?
In-Reply-To: <98742299-45A7-42B3-989E-23A131D57517@groupwbench.org>
References: <98742299-45A7-42B3-989E-23A131D57517@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <F68584F5-F5F4-415E-802F-E26C99EF5254@groupwbench.org>

A long time ago (Dec 2010), I wrote:

> I'm renovating a basement and need to put down a finish floor. The concrete
is
> 90 years old and very uneven. Other than 1000 gallons of self-levelling
goop,
> I'm at a loss as to how to accomplish this other than making a 2 sq ft grid
> and shimming each joint. 2 problems with this- I can't lose more than 3" of
> height, and the entire basement would need to be cleared to do this, and
> there's many cubic yards of stuff down there that has nowhere to go.

I ended up laying and shimming 2' on center PT 2x4s and covering with
Advantek. It worked for the most part, and will be fine with any resilient
flooring. I did end up needing to raise one portion of the floor, as the
corner where the homeowner stuffed all her stuff was the highest (of course).

It came out ok, not perfect by a long shot, owed to the inaccuracies of your
average 4' level extrapolated over 20'.  I did use my laser level for major
areas but there was too much in the way to use it everywhere, then it fell and
broke.

If I had to do it over again, I'd push for renting a scarifier and
professionally pouring a topcoat. Would have cost the homeowner about 25% more
but take much less time.

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sat Aug 27 21:17:05 2011
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 22:17:05 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-up: Removing hardening-type Permatex No. 1
Message-ID: <005401cc6530$f7434bc0$e5c9e340$@ameritech.net>

A few weeks ago I posted, looking for something that would remove Permatex
No. 1 (the hardening type).  Lots of suggestions, but not much luck.
Eventually I found Permatex Gasket Remover (product 80645).  It's non-toxic
and doesn't seem to do anything to my hands, but with a few hours or more it
softens the gaskets and Permatex so they easily scrape off with a wooden
scraper (I'm taking stuff off of aluminum and magnesium castings as well as
plated steel, and don't want to harm the parts).

It comes in an aerosol brush-top applicator, which is good and bad.  Since I
needed to get into very tight spots, sometimes the applicator shot out more
material when I was just trying to spread what was already dispensed, but
all in all it was worth the aggravation.  Permatex is apparently having some
issues with the package, because I found more bad cans than I did good cans
on the shelf  The can gets very rusty at the top, which is visible through
the blister card (if you look for it) under the transparent cap.  And mine
ran out of propellant when it was about half gone, so I tore the can apart
and brushed it on to use it all up.  The steel container is merely a shell -
the stuff is in a bladder inside the shell, and the nozzle merely opens a
valve in the bladder.  Neat idea once they perfect it.

All in all, a good product other than the package issues.

Karl

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 29 08:30:04 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott Hall)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:30:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Difference between Lincoln Pro-MIG 175 and SP-175 Plus
Message-ID: <4E5BA26C.5060000@gmail.com>

Thought I'd pick up a smaller MIG box.  Found two locally, one's a 
Pro-MIG 175, one's an SP-175 Plus.  Anyone know the difference between 
the two?

Thanks.

Scott

From bspidell at comcast.net  Mon Aug 29 09:01:11 2011
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:01:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Difference between Lincoln Pro-MIG 175 and SP-175
 Plus
In-Reply-To: <4E5BA26C.5060000@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1370260146.730751.1314630071353.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Too lazy to look at the specs myself, I let Google do the lifting. Found this: 

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/lincoln-welders-there-difference-79691.html 

Sounds like they're both 230V (most anything over 140 is). 

Bob 

-------------------------------- 
Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Hall" <scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> 
To: "Shop Talk List" <shop-talk at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:30:04 AM 
Subject: [Shop-talk] Difference between Lincoln Pro-MIG 175 and SP-175 Plus 

Thought I'd pick up a smaller MIG box. Found two locally, one's a 
Pro-MIG 175, one's an SP-175 Plus. Anyone know the difference between 
the two? 

Thanks. 

Scott 

From doug at dougbraun.com  Mon Aug 29 09:06:43 2011
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:06:43 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Difference between Lincoln Pro-MIG 175 and SP-175
 Plus
In-Reply-To: <4E5BA26C.5060000@gmail.com>
References: <4E5BA26C.5060000@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOtbU9Vuh4V5dNLbEmfWL7cbBXWJNsRqQupcroaU7iLKGXAk-g@mail.gmail.com>

I think that the models being marketed to professionals usually include
the gas regulator, but the ones for Lowes don't.

Also check if either has electronic (continuously-variable) power control,
or if not, how many settings it has.

Doug

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Scott Hall
<scott.hall.personal at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thought I'd pick up a smaller MIG box.  Found two locally, one's a Pro-MIG
> 175, one's an SP-175 Plus.  Anyone know the difference between the two?

From marka at maracing.com  Mon Aug 29 09:14:01 2011
From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:14:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Difference between Lincoln Pro-MIG 175 and SP-175
 Plus
In-Reply-To: <4E5BA26C.5060000@gmail.com>
References: <4E5BA26C.5060000@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1108291112190.8636@thunder.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Mon, 29 Aug 2011, Scott Hall wrote:
> Thought I'd pick up a smaller MIG box.  Found two locally, one's a Pro-MIG 
> 175, one's an SP-175 Plus.  Anyone know the difference between the two?

I'm too lazy to verify this, but I _think_ the SP-175 Plus didn't have a 
spool gun available and the Pro-MIG did?

I have a 10 year old or so SP-175Plus and I remember looking at the 
replacement model and being annoyed that it had a spool gun that I 
couldn't get anyway.

Note that this is all by memory and my wife will be happy to tell you I 
can't remember sh*t.

:-)

Mark

From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com  Mon Aug 29 09:27:15 2011
From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:27:15 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question
In-Reply-To: <4E57ADF6.7030406@xxiii.com>
References: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com>
	<4E57ADF6.7030406@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <641208A0-3E8F-4ADD-8D56-DD89867D388C@trebelhorn.com>

Thanks to all who responded.

I got to the interview with light throttle and parked at the far end  
of the lot; checked at the NAPA up the block after the interview and  
they recommended a welder about a block away.  I asked the guy at the  
welding shop about places in the area to have lunch while I waited.   
He directed me to the Irish pub up the street; owned and well-run by  
an actual Irishman.

All in all, not bad.  I can only hope the interview has as good an  
outcome.

Thanks again.
Matt

On 26 Aug, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Wayne wrote:

> On 8/26/2011 8:35 AM, Matt Trebelhorn wrote:
>> So it's 8:30; I'm 100 miles from home and have to leave here in an  
>> hour
>> for a 60-mile drive to a job interview.
>> And the flex pipe on the exhaust broke wide open about 20 minutes  
>> ago.
>
> Good Luck with interview, Matt!  Don't know any good fix, though  
> (amusing it's similar with the ones on my Nissans.)

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Mon Aug 29 09:40:16 2011
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:40:16 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question
In-Reply-To: <641208A0-3E8F-4ADD-8D56-DD89867D388C@trebelhorn.com>
References: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com><4E57ADF6.7030406@xxiii.com>
	<641208A0-3E8F-4ADD-8D56-DD89867D388C@trebelhorn.com>
Message-ID: <CA4FC2CE93AE47DA8A813F4840F20CEC@OwnerPC>

hope the interview went well and the job is yours for the taking

I would have offered to buy the muffler welder lunch...   
were you pleased with his work ??

john

From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com  Mon Aug 29 09:49:47 2011
From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:49:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generic exhaust question
In-Reply-To: <CA4FC2CE93AE47DA8A813F4840F20CEC@OwnerPC>
References: <E8AC856F-3D69-4283-B4C0-6AA240B2B68B@trebelhorn.com><4E57ADF6.7030406@xxiii.com>
	<641208A0-3E8F-4ADD-8D56-DD89867D388C@trebelhorn.com>
	<CA4FC2CE93AE47DA8A813F4840F20CEC@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <EFB90013-6BDF-41D2-AEEA-96D8F5542431@trebelhorn.com>

The shop owner/weldor was supposed to be up that way with his wife  
for lunch; if I'd seen him I would have offered.

The weld-up wasn't cheap, but sounds and looks quite good.  The  
remaining ~160 miles I had to drive on Friday were peaceful and  
pretty much justified spending the coin to get it done right then.

Matt

On 29 Aug, 2011, at 11:40 AM, john niolon wrote:

> hope the interview went well and the job is yours for the taking
>
> I would have offered to buy the muffler welder lunch...   were you  
> pleased with his work ??
>
> john

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Tue Aug 30 22:55:39 2011
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:55:39 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tunneling drain pipe down a hill?
Message-ID: <4E5DBECB.3090108@earthlink.net>

I need to make some sort of tool in the shop to run a 4" drain pipe down 
the slope in my backyard and am after the wisdom of the list to make it 
less difficult.  The upper end is a brick patio by the house (easy to 
take up) and the lower destination is a terrace about 40 feet away.  
Half the slope is too steep to stand on, so I can't really dig a trench 
to bury the pipe.  Even if I could, all the dirt would fall down the 
hill and I'd have to haul it up again, probably a couple times.  I also 
have good ground cover I'd rather not loose.

The pipe will likely be Home Depot SKU # 189781 4 inch Polyethylene 
drain pipe, cemented together.  I'll check other stores to see if I can 
find the style they used to carry with the bell ends - I think that is 
the term for the flared pipe that doesn't require a fitting, so is 
likely to be a stronger joint.

My thought is to take a piece of 2 inch wide 1/8 inch thick flat steel, 
cut some large teeth in it, and bend it into a 4 inch circle that I 
would attach around a segment of 4 inch pipe as a cutter.   I was 
thinking about rivets, but think short nuts and bolts with washers 
inside the pipe will be better.  I could start at the top and drill down 
at an angle by twisting the pipe back and forth, adding segments of pipe 
as I went.  If all went well, I'd end up at the bottom about a foot 
below the surface.  I'd dig out that segment, cut off the cutter,  
attach a 45 deg fitting, then run short horizontal segment of the pipe 
out to daylight at the terrace level.

My concern is that about 10 feet down the hill, I will be unable to saw 
the pipe back and forth, so I'll need some sort of big pipe wrench or 
clamp to grip the plastic pipe to keep sawing it back and forth.  I have 
one of these
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-to-4-1-4-quarter-inch-oil-filter-wrench-36778.html 

that may be enough to grip the pipe.  If not, my backup thought is a 2x6 
ripped down the middle, hinged at one end, with a partial circle cut out 
of the middle that should hopefully give me enough grip (think oversized 
nutcracker).

If I could, I would just drill all the way to the bottom of the hill 
then flush the dirt out of the pipe when finished.  Periodically I might 
stick a hose down the pipe and flush the dirt up out the top of the 
pipe.   My concern with water is that it will find a way to the surface 
at the bottom of the pipe and cause the pipe to drift to the surface.

I have some old 3/4 inch PVC sprinkler pipe that I think I'll do a trial 
run with first.  When I've gone the distance, I'll pressurize the pipe 
with water to find the bottom end.  If it comes out where I want, I'll 
actually leave it in place to use it as a guide down the center of the 4 
inch pipe.

Anything I use has to be carried down 33 steps from the street/garage, 
so big or heavy equipment is out of the question.

I want to get gutters on the house before the California rainy season 
this year and need to get the water away from the house.

Thanks in advance for any better/improved ideas.

Brian in Los Angeles

From cavanadd at frontier.com  Wed Aug 31 00:26:59 2011
From: cavanadd at frontier.com (David C.)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:26:59 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tunneling drain pipe down a hill?
In-Reply-To: <4E5DBECB.3090108@earthlink.net>
References: <4E5DBECB.3090108@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4E5DD433.8070505@frontier.com>

I think what you're looking for is SDR 35 sewer and drain pipe.  It's 
typically used for septic drain fields.  Any place that sells irrigation 
and plumbing supplies should carry it.  The Borgs might not.  (I have 
plumbed my shop dust collection system with 4" S&D pipe.)

As for your main problem, I'm afraid I have no ideas.



Brian Kemp wrote:
> The pipe will likely be Home Depot SKU # 189781 4 inch Polyethylene
> drain pipe, cemented together.  I'll check other stores to see if I can
> find the style they used to carry with the bell ends - I think that is
> the term for the flared pipe that doesn't require a fitting, so is
> likely to be a stronger joint.

From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com  Wed Aug 31 05:06:20 2011
From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 07:06:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tunneling drain pipe down a hill?
In-Reply-To: <4E5DBECB.3090108@earthlink.net>
References: <4E5DBECB.3090108@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001c01cc67ce$0490bca0$0db235e0$@cablespeed.com>

Why not avoid drilling or digging altogether?

Do you have  a farm supply near you? Go to the area where they have hose and
pumping equipment. Look for a big flat hose that they use for use for
drainage pumps. It is generally blue. It sort of looks like a flat fire
hose. Fit your drain to a piece of that and unroll it down the hill. If
there is vegetation on the hill you might be able to hide it.

Work smart, not hard......

From scott.hall.personal at gmail.com  Wed Aug 31 05:16:44 2011
From: scott.hall.personal at gmail.com (Scott)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 07:16:44 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tunneling drain pipe down a hill?
In-Reply-To: <4E5DBECB.3090108@earthlink.net>
References: <4E5DBECB.3090108@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4E5E181C.9090907@gmail.com>

Man.

This goes against my natural predilection, but hire someone to do that.

I don't see you being able to twist a 4-inch pipe as a drill by hand any 
farther than a few feet, unless it's very, very loose soil.  Then you 
have to be either very lucky, or very exact in where you land the 
output.  And that's assuming you find a way to get the pipe segments to 
hold together as you add new ones.

On the other hand, what's the worse that happens?  It's only dirt!

On 8/31/2011 12:55 AM, Brian Kemp wrote:
> I need to make some sort of tool in the shop to run a 4" drain pipe 
> down the slope in my backyard and am after the wisdom of the list to 
> make it less difficult.  The upper end is a brick patio by the house 
> (easy to take up) and the lower destination is a terrace about 40 feet 
> away.  Half the slope is too steep to stand on, so I can't really dig 
> a trench to bury the pipe.  Even if I could, all the dirt would fall 
> down the hill and I'd have to haul it up again, probably a couple 
> times.  I also have good ground cover I'd rather not loose.

From TR3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed Aug 31 07:34:55 2011
From: TR3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:34:55 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tunneling drain pipe down a hill?
In-Reply-To: <001c01cc67ce$0490bca0$0db235e0$@cablespeed.com>
References: <4E5DBECB.3090108@earthlink.net>
	<001c01cc67ce$0490bca0$0db235e0$@cablespeed.com>
Message-ID: <05c001cc67e2$c5734f00$0301a8c0@randall>

> Do you have  a farm supply near you? Go to the area where 
> they have hose and
> pumping equipment. Look for a big flat hose that they use for use for
> drainage pumps. It is generally blue. It sort of looks like a 
> flat fire
> hose.

FWIW, Home Depot sells the flat blue hose in the garden department next to
the swimming pool supplies.  Or I could give you some if you want, I've got
more than I'll ever use.  But I doubt you'd want to leave it laying in the
yard year-round.

My thought would be something similar to what you describe; except mostly
using water as the cutting tool.  Force a hard stream of water into the
ground kind of like hydraulic mining, but using the 4" drain pipe to limit
the affected area.  If your soil is anything like mine, there just isn't any
other way to cut through it.  Without the water, a post hole digger just
bounces off.

-- Randall  

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Wed Aug 31 07:36:47 2011
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:36:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] micro balloons or microspheres in body work
Message-ID: <BB28D84E53794A7BB5CD823ADB0FF29E@OwnerPC>

I have a '53 ford truck sitting in the shop



it has a fiberglass hood /fenders that tilts forward fenders and all.  The
outside is gel coated and very smooth.. the inside is typical rough fiberglass
with mat showing and a very rough surface.



I've been told you can add glass bubbles to the resin... apply it and sand it
much easier. I have a I'd like to make the inside as smooth as the outside for
showing the truck.  I've been told that glass bubbles can be used to do this
with very little finish work (compared to brushing on resin and sanding
forever)  My questions :



does anyone know about using glass bubbles to fiberglass ?



how should it be applied and finished ?? brushed ?? sprayed ??



for a 100 sq. ft. application... what quantity would be needed ??



what base resin should be used ??



and any other information you can offer would be greatly appreciated.  I can
send pictures of the application if needed...



I know this brain trust has the answer



thanks

John

From arvidj at visi.com  Wed Aug 31 10:40:01 2011
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:40:01 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] micro balloons or microspheres in body work
In-Reply-To: <BB28D84E53794A7BB5CD823ADB0FF29E@OwnerPC>
References: <BB28D84E53794A7BB5CD823ADB0FF29E@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E7DA6CC465144C76AB56B65634E9A412@HP62011>

I think you are talking about microballoons. Google "fiberglass 
microballoons" and see if that will do the trick.

-----Original Message----- 
From: john niolon
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:36 AM
To: shop-talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] micro balloons or microspheres in body work

I have a '53 ford truck sitting in the shop
...

I've been told you can add glass bubbles to the resin... apply it and sand 
it
much easier. I have a I'd like to make the inside as smooth as the outside 
for
showing the truck.  I've been told that glass bubbles can be used to do this
with very little finish work (compared to brushing on resin and sanding
forever)  My questions :