From cavanadd at verizon.net Tue Mar 2 00:06:43 2010 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 23:06:43 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <4B7F5B8C.4030102@verizon.net> References: <4B7F5B8C.4030102@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4B8CB903.30606@verizon.net> I am thinking of putting an air solenoid valve in my compressor tank outlet. I already have a manual valve I open when I go out to the shop, and (usually) close when I leave. I valve the tank off because various QD fittings on the piping leak a little bit and the compressor will cycle every couple of hours if I don't valve off the outlet. Occasionally I forget to close the valve and then after a couple of days I will be reminded by either hearing the compressor or, more often, by the quick flicker of the lights when the compressor starts. I thought if I put a 110 volt solenoid in the outlet, I could put a spring wound line voltage timer in the circuit and whenever I go out in the shop, I would give the timer a twist which would open the valve for the timer duration. I think I can get one that is good for eight hours. Anyone got a source for a reasonably priced 1/2" or 3/4" NPT 110 volt solenoid valve? MCC was not much help. Would an irrigation valve work? It worked fine in the spud gun.... thanks Dave From vlm at te-motorworks.com Tue Mar 2 05:48:04 2010 From: vlm at te-motorworks.com (Vin Marshall) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 07:48:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <4B8CB903.30606@verizon.net> References: <4B7F5B8C.4030102@verizon.net> <4B8CB903.30606@verizon.net> Message-ID: <78953DDA-A0B2-4487-870F-756E82CE5096@te-motorworks.com> The large solenoid valves with high flow rates are out there, but in my experience, not at all cheap. If you're feeling adventurous, you could add external actuation to a manual ball or butterfly valve, as I did here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vinmarshall/4159343952/in/set-72157622881925572/ If you're going to go that route, either pneumatic actuation or some kind of electromechanical actuation would work. It seems like you might want something that actually latches in either position though, as I'm fairly certain that a cheap solenoid valve like I used here is not going to react well to being energized for 8 hours at a stretch. This was also used for a spud gun, by the way. -vin On Mar 2, 2010, at 2:06 AM, David C. wrote: > I am thinking of putting an air solenoid valve in my compressor tank outlet. I already have a manual valve I open when I go out to the shop, and (usually) close when I leave. I valve the tank off because various QD fittings on the piping leak a little bit and the compressor will cycle every couple of hours if I don't valve off the outlet. Occasionally I forget to close the valve and then after a couple of days I will be reminded by either hearing the compressor or, more often, by the quick flicker of the lights when the compressor starts. > > I thought if I put a 110 volt solenoid in the outlet, I could put a spring wound line voltage timer in the circuit and whenever I go out in the shop, I would give the timer a twist which would open the valve for the timer duration. I think I can get one that is good for eight hours. > > Anyone got a source for a reasonably priced 1/2" or 3/4" NPT 110 volt solenoid valve? MCC was not much help. > > Would an irrigation valve work? It worked fine in the spud gun.... > > thanks > Dave > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > You are subscribed as vlm at te-motorworks.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Mar 2 09:24:30 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 08:24:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? Message-ID: <613187.96776.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I saw an ad from Eastwood announcing a new MIG welder: http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html The interesting thing is, both outside and inside, it looks exactly like a Lincoln model. Has Lincoln made an EM deal with them, or are both Eastwood and Lincoln getting them from some third party? I have had a similar model from Lincoln for 6 years or so, and it has served me well. Considering that Eastwood stuff is generally somewhat overpriced, their price on this unit seems unusually low. Doug From bspidell at comcast.net Tue Mar 2 09:47:08 2010 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:47:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <613187.96776.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <709220408.9266581267548428621.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Which Lincoln model? Lincoln's website lists a 140A unit as their smallest, and it doesn't look at all like the Eastwood. Lincoln or not, that's a pretty good price for a small MIG with continuous--not tapped--voltage control. bs -------------------------------- Bob Spidell - San Jose, CA Hello, I saw an ad from Eastwood announcing a new MIG welder: http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html The interesting thing is, both outside and inside, it looks exactly like a Lincoln model. Has Lincoln made an EM deal with them, or are both Eastwood and Lincoln getting them from some third party? I have had a similar model from Lincoln for 6 years or so, and it has served me well. Considering that Eastwood stuff is generally somewhat overpriced, their price on this unit seems unusually low. Doug _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 You are subscribed as bspidell at comcast.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 09:50:40 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:50:40 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <613187.96776.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <613187.96776.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003020850x23f357f0g378732814b1400ca@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Doug Braun wrote: > Hello, > > I saw an ad from Eastwood announcing a new MIG welder: > > http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html > > The interesting thing is, both outside and inside, it looks exactly like a > Lincoln model. Has Lincoln made an EM deal with them, or are both Eastwood > and Lincoln getting them from some third party? > > I have had a similar model from Lincoln for 6 years or so, and it has > served me well. Considering that Eastwood stuff is generally somewhat > overpriced, their price on this unit seems unusually low. > > It's a chinese copy of the Lincoln. (I don't know where lincoln builds their low end welders these days, for a while they were built in Mexico. Don't know if they still are. It could well come out of the same factory. But even the US made ones have lots of chinese parts in them.) If eastwood is selling it for $300, it probably means others are for 200. Eastwood, being Eastwood, neglect to mention the country of origin. There are quite good welders coming out of china these days. There's also junk. Depends on the bits in the box. (quality of transformer, choice of the power transistors, mostly.) I hate to say it, but it's 2010, and a mig welder is no longer anywhere near high tech. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tputland at charter.net Tue Mar 2 10:16:09 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 9:16:09 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <2400a5d41003020850x23f357f0g378732814b1400ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100302121609.OAKL0.2281469.root@mp12> So if I understand correctly Dave, you don't think that this Eastwood model is worth $300 (more like $350+ with shipping)? And I can most likely find a small MIG for less? Thanks Tim ---- David Scheidt wrote: ============= On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Doug Braun wrote: > Hello, > > I saw an ad from Eastwood announcing a new MIG welder: > > http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html > > The interesting thing is, both outside and inside, it looks exactly like a > Lincoln model. Has Lincoln made an EM deal with them, or are both Eastwood > and Lincoln getting them from some third party? > > I have had a similar model from Lincoln for 6 years or so, and it has > served me well. Considering that Eastwood stuff is generally somewhat > overpriced, their price on this unit seems unusually low. > > It's a chinese copy of the Lincoln. (I don't know where lincoln builds their low end welders these days, for a while they were built in Mexico. Don't know if they still are. It could well come out of the same factory. But even the US made ones have lots of chinese parts in them.) If eastwood is selling it for $300, it probably means others are for 200. Eastwood, being Eastwood, neglect to mention the country of origin. There are quite good welders coming out of china these days. There's also junk. Depends on the bits in the box. (quality of transformer, choice of the power transistors, mostly.) I hate to say it, but it's 2010, and a mig welder is no longer anywhere near high tech. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com Suggested annual donation $12.96 You are subscribed as tputland at charter.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 11:13:12 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:13:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <20100302121609.OAKL0.2281469.root@mp12> References: <2400a5d41003020850x23f357f0g378732814b1400ca@mail.gmail.com> <20100302121609.OAKL0.2281469.root@mp12> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003021013j6f3647c5l1ff166065c0cb094@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Tim wrote: > So if I understand correctly Dave, you don't think that this Eastwood model > is worth $300 (more like $350+ with shipping)? And I can most likely find a > small MIG for less? > > That's just a general comment on Eastwood's pricing. I haven't paid attention to the market for small migs. I do know there is at least one chinese company making copies of lincoln welders, probably more than one. My local praxair outlet had a display of a welder that looks just like Eastwoods (different paint job) when I was in there getting gas last year. it was a whole kit, including a cart and gas, for 400-something. there's nothing exotic in a mig welder, at least at the 120 and 240 V range used in most shops. It's a wire feeder, a transformer, a few power transistors, a gas solenoid, and a few dials, in a metal box. all commodity parts. That's pretty much true of TIG these days, too, for that matter. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mikey at b2systems.com Tue Mar 2 12:02:50 2010 From: mikey at b2systems.com (mike rambour) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:02:50 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <20100302121609.OAKL0.2281469.root@mp12> References: <20100302121609.OAKL0.2281469.root@mp12> Message-ID: <1267556570.25002.23.camel@WebBrowser> I don't know about the welder as both my MIG and TIG are Lincoln, I want to get parts TODAY when I need them, not have to order them and wait to weld that broken whatever on my car. And before it sounds like I am ragging on Eastwood, I am in their buyers club and buy a lot from them (mostly powder) but Eastwood's shipping dept. is a profit center for them. They do not in any way try to get low prices on shipping, they are out to make money on shipping. So when you want that cool whatever from them always consider the shipping before you buy. mike On Tue, 2010-03-02 at 09:16 -0800, Tim wrote: > So if I understand correctly Dave, you don't think that this Eastwood model is worth $300 (more like $350+ with shipping)? And I can most likely find a small MIG for less? > > Thanks > > Tim > > ---- David Scheidt wrote: > > ============= > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Doug Braun wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I saw an ad from Eastwood announcing a new MIG welder: > > > > http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html > > > > The interesting thing is, both outside and inside, it looks exactly like a > > Lincoln model. Has Lincoln made an EM deal with them, or are both Eastwood > > and Lincoln getting them from some third party? > > > > I have had a similar model from Lincoln for 6 years or so, and it has > > served me well. Considering that Eastwood stuff is generally somewhat > > overpriced, their price on this unit seems unusually low. > > > > > It's a chinese copy of the Lincoln. (I don't know where lincoln builds > their low end welders these days, for a while they were built in Mexico. > Don't know if they still are. It could well come out of the same factory. > But even the US made ones have lots of chinese parts in them.) If eastwood > is selling it for $300, it probably means others are for 200. Eastwood, > being Eastwood, neglect to mention the country of origin. > > There are quite good welders coming out of china these days. There's also > junk. Depends on the bits in the box. (quality of transformer, choice of > the power transistors, mostly.) I hate to say it, but it's 2010, and a mig > welder is no longer anywhere near high tech. From tputland at charter.net Tue Mar 2 12:16:59 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:16:59 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood shipping, was Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <1267556570.25002.23.camel@WebBrowser> Message-ID: <20100302141659.1P2MW.2290049.root@mp12> I have been in the past, and will be again in the future, a member of their "shipper's club" and it is a great deal if you buy smaller items with any regularity. About three years ago I know that had to have lost money on shipping to me as I went kinda crazy buying stuff I needed when I was setting up my "shop" to start the restoration of my Dad's car. Tim ---- mike rambour wrote: ============= I don't know about the welder as both my MIG and TIG are Lincoln, I want to get parts TODAY when I need them, not have to order them and wait to weld that broken whatever on my car. And before it sounds like I am ragging on Eastwood, I am in their buyers club and buy a lot from them (mostly powder) but Eastwood's shipping dept. is a profit center for them. They do not in any way try to get low prices on shipping, they are out to make money on shipping. So when you want that cool whatever from them always consider the shipping before you buy. mike On Tue, 2010-03-02 at 09:16 -0800, Tim wrote: > So if I understand correctly Dave, you don't think that this Eastwood model is worth $300 (more like $350+ with shipping)? And I can most likely find a small MIG for less? > > Thanks > > Tim > > ---- David Scheidt wrote: > > ============= > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Doug Braun wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I saw an ad from Eastwood announcing a new MIG welder: > > > > http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html > > > > The interesting thing is, both outside and inside, it looks exactly like a > > Lincoln model. Has Lincoln made an EM deal with them, or are both Eastwood > > and Lincoln getting them from some third party? > > > > I have had a similar model from Lincoln for 6 years or so, and it has > > served me well. Considering that Eastwood stuff is generally somewhat > > overpriced, their price on this unit seems unusually low. > > > > > It's a chinese copy of the Lincoln. (I don't know where lincoln builds > their low end welders these days, for a while they were built in Mexico. > Don't know if they still are. It could well come out of the same factory. > But even the US made ones have lots of chinese parts in them.) If eastwood > is selling it for $300, it probably means others are for 200. Eastwood, > being Eastwood, neglect to mention the country of origin. > > There are quite good welders coming out of china these days. There's also > junk. Depends on the bits in the box. (quality of transformer, choice of > the power transistors, mostly.) I hate to say it, but it's 2010, and a mig > welder is no longer anywhere near high tech. Suggested annual donation $12.96 You are subscribed as tputland at charter.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Mar 2 14:15:25 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 13:15:25 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <4B8CB903.30606@verizon.net> References: <4B7F5B8C.4030102@verizon.net> <4B8CB903.30606@verizon.net> Message-ID: <0DF958DD07DC417DB5C40798AB098720@jdnet.deere.com> > I thought if I put a 110 volt solenoid in the outlet, I could > put a spring wound line voltage timer in the circuit and > whenever I go out in the shop, I would give the timer a twist > which would open the valve for the timer duration. Another thought might be to wire it in through the light switch, along with a contactor to enable the compressor. I've got the contactor installed, but haven't run the line to the garage switches yet. Anyone know why this valve http://www.mcmaster.com/#solenoid-valves/=61ozha wouldn't be suitable? -- Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 15:06:26 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 17:06:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <1267556570.25002.23.camel@WebBrowser> References: <20100302121609.OAKL0.2281469.root@mp12> <1267556570.25002.23.camel@WebBrowser> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003021406s1683a7f1j658ebc3cdc0af0ab@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 2:02 PM, mike rambour wrote: > I don't know about the welder as both my MIG and TIG are Lincoln, I > want to get parts TODAY when I need them, not have to order them and > wait to weld that broken whatever on my car. > Consumable parts for even crappy imported welders are widely available, as they all use a small number of styles, which are shared with the US brands. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Mar 2 15:15:27 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:15:27 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? Message-ID: What actually caught me eye about the Eastwood welder was the infinitely variable power adjustment. That is rare in cheaper units. One thing I am still waiting to see is a inverter MIG machine. Doug From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 16:33:23 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 18:33:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <597351584-1267568139-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1453941975-@bda2589.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <597351584-1267568139-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1453941975-@bda2589.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003021533hf076d38vbfd4921f4d948df1@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > What actually caught me eye about the Eastwood welder was the infinitely > variable power adjustment. That is rare in cheaper units. > > Mostly because Lincoln and miller use it as a selling point between the machines available in retail markets and the otherwise identical machines that sell for hundreds more at welding suppliers. > One thing I am still waiting to see is a inverter MIG machine. > > They're out there. Not on any of the small american branded ones, but from the couple of Chinese companies that are doing their own design. (And, probably, from the chinese companies that are making unauthorized knock offs of the companies. All you need to copy one is five minutes with a sample and a camera....) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jibjib at att.net Tue Mar 2 17:36:47 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 16:36:47 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? In-Reply-To: <20100302222500.380FB18789D@autox.team.net> References: <20100302222500.380FB18789D@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <362ADD8A0E0B428CA1D900044B1221A1@hpa1477c> I never found that an infinitely variable power switch to be worth spending more money to have. You are constantly varying the distance from the tip to the work, accomplishing the fine tuning anyway. JMHO, Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Braun Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 2:15 PM To: David Scheidt; Tim Cc: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Eastwood Welder: made by Lincoln? What actually caught me eye about the Eastwood welder was the infinitely variable power adjustment. That is rare in cheaper units. One thing I am still waiting to see is a inverter MIG machine. Doug Suggested annual donation $12.96 You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From cavanadd at verizon.net Tue Mar 2 19:31:04 2010 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:31:04 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <0DF958DD07DC417DB5C40798AB098720@jdnet.deere.com> References: <4B7F5B8C.4030102@verizon.net> <4B8CB903.30606@verizon.net> <0DF958DD07DC417DB5C40798AB098720@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: <4B8DC9E8.8050609@verizon.net> Randall wrote: > Another thought might be to wire it in through the light switch, along with > a contactor to enable the compressor. I've got the contactor installed, but > haven't run the line to the garage switches yet. Good idea. I'll have to think about that, too. > > Anyone know why this valve > http://www.mcmaster.com/#solenoid-valves/=61ozha > wouldn't be suitable? I missed those when I looked at the MMC catalog. Sometimes the catalog has so much stuff in it you miss what you're looking for. It looks like one of them should work, assuming the coil is up to being energized for 8-10 hours at a time. The "low amp draw" model would probably heat up the least, at least in theory. From 57healey at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 21:08:58 2010 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 22:08:58 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program Message-ID: <85F68681-0F72-435C-BD0B-4569E7D90CCC@Gmail.com> Why would the Costco rep at a dealer work under two names? Costco told me to expect a call from a certian person at the dealership. When I got the call it came from another guy. I found out later that the guy who called may have infact been the Costco club contact, but he may haven given me a fake name. Sent from my iPod From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 21:12:28 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 23:12:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <4B8DC9E8.8050609@verizon.net> References: <4B7F5B8C.4030102@verizon.net> <4B8CB903.30606@verizon.net> <0DF958DD07DC417DB5C40798AB098720@jdnet.deere.com> <4B8DC9E8.8050609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003022012x425cf107qb49b03ef24b6f815@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:31 PM, David C. wrote: > Randall wrote: > >> Another thought might be to wire it in through the light switch, along >> with >> a contactor to enable the compressor. I've got the contactor installed, >> but >> haven't run the line to the garage switches yet. >> > > Good idea. I'll have to think about that, too. > > >> Anyone know why this valve >> http://www.mcmaster.com/#solenoid-valves/=61ozha >> wouldn't be suitable? >> > > I missed those when I looked at the MMC catalog. Sometimes the > catalog has so much stuff in it you miss what you're looking for. It looks > like one of them should work, assuming the coil is up to being energized for > 8-10 hours at a time. The "low amp draw" model would probably heat up the > least, at least in theory. > > McMaster doesn't list it, but solenoid valves (and solenoids in general) have a duty rating. A rating of "continuous duty" means they can have the coil energized continuously. I wouldn't be surprised if all of the ones McMaster sells are so rated (lots of industrial equipment has normally closed valves that energized when the machine is on; power failure needs to close them.), but I'd inquire. I'd also see if I could find a latching one; there's no need to power the coil constantly. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From bobkegel at comcast.net Tue Mar 2 21:46:37 2010 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:46:37 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <85F68681-0F72-435C-BD0B-4569E7D90CCC@Gmail.com> Message-ID: <744C5C007AA04E49AD3D82486289D2CD@8sv5f01> > Why would the Costco rep at a dealer work under two names? Perhaps there was a miscommunication between the dealer, the company that actually runs the program, and Costco. I can tell you everything worked smoothly when I bought a car through Costco last August. Bob K From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Mar 2 21:48:33 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 20:48:33 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <2400a5d41003022012x425cf107qb49b03ef24b6f815@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <06.74.08284.12AED8B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> > power failure > needs to close them.), but I'd inquire. I'd also see if I > could find a latching one; there's no need to power the coil > constantly. So, how does a power failure close a latching valve? For the valve I looked at, the coil draws about 6 watts. That means, if I were to somehow turn pro and power this rig 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year; it would cost me a whole $1.80 for solenoid power. Hardly seems to justify the extra cost and complexity of using a latching valve; especially since a more realistic use schedule for me would be under 100 hours/year. Randall From bk13 at earthlink.net Tue Mar 2 23:07:51 2010 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:07:51 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <85F68681-0F72-435C-BD0B-4569E7D90CCC@Gmail.com> References: <85F68681-0F72-435C-BD0B-4569E7D90CCC@Gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B8DFCB7.502@earthlink.net> If you know the dealership guy lied, report it to Costco and the manager at the dealership. I think it would get resolved pretty quickly as Costco wouldn't accept that and the dealership would be concerned about Costco excluding them. I'd like to believe it is a misunderstanding or that the Costco auto program just had an old contact. When we used the program 2 and 5 years ago, it was a simple $500 over invoice and any sales person knew that. I would expect them to tell you that over the phone. Keep in mind, given the economy, the Costco price might not be your best bet. Brian Patton Dickson wrote: > Why would the Costco rep at a dealer work under two names? > > Costco told me to expect a call from a certian person at the > dealership. When I got the call it came from another guy. I > found out later that the guy who called may have infact been the > Costco club contact, but he may haven given me a fake name. > > Sent from my iPod > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > You are subscribed as bk13 at earthlink.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Mar 3 07:00:22 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 06:00:22 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <4B8E3F82.5030606@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <68.B6.13441.67B6E8B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> > I walk to other side of main shop and flip on another switch > [for light > over roll-up doors] and then I rotate the ball-shut-off/on I've seen your shop, Ed, it's much nicer than mine. Of course it's just a hobby for me, so that's appropriate. My previous compressor was inside my 'shop' (actually just a 2.5 car garage) and I got thoroughly tired of the racket it made while running. The new one was also considerably larger, no way would it fit under the bench where the old one was, and floor space is at a premium with all the other equipment I have jammed in there. No room to put it outdoors nearby, so it's somewhat remotely located on the other side of the house, outside the master bedroom. And since I live in an earthquake zone, it's bolted to the wall. Now imagine the reaction of SWMBO when it decides to cycle at 3 AM, and perhaps you'll see why I'm willing to work on a method of automatically shutting it off. Randall From shop at justbrits.com Wed Mar 3 03:52:50 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 04:52:50 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <06.74.08284.12AED8B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> References: <06.74.08284.12AED8B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <4B8E3F82.5030606@justbrits.com> << So, how does a power failure close a latching valve? >> Good question Randall, but not quite the one I have for everybody. Now everyday when I unlock the door to my shop I flip two switches, [ 1 for ceiling perimeter lights and 1 for light over the entry door], then I walk to other side of main shop and flip on another switch [for light over roll-up doors] and then I rotate the ball-shut-off/on valve on top of my compressor [to 'on' ]. At the end of the day I reverse my steps AND actions. Not "too" complicated methinks !! Been doing above for 20+ years roughly 7 days a week. In the last roughly 3.75 years since my NEW compressor was installed, the hour clock that I added tells me that as of the time I write this, I have 200.2 hours on said compressor even tho my piped system ALSO has a few small leaks. So the question is; WHY spend ANY effort and MONEY for all the work/materials that are just plain NOT needed ??? << For the valve I looked at, the coil draws about 6 watts. That means, if I were to somehow turn pro and power this rig 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year; it would cost me a whole $1.80 for solenoid power. Hardly seems to justify the extra cost and complexity of using a latching valve; especially since a more realistic use schedule for me would be under 100 hours/year. >> I could 'afford' the buck eighty but dam*ed if I will WASTE my hard earned money on something NOT needed. The dollars anybody spending on fixing something SIMPLE with something complex [with built-in failure] would make a nice dinner out with my SWMBO !!!!! Ed From shop at justbrits.com Wed Mar 3 11:12:35 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:12:35 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air solenoid valve In-Reply-To: <68.B6.13441.67B6E8B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> References: <68.B6.13441.67B6E8B4@cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <4B8EA693.6090007@justbrits.com> From brabel at comcast.net Wed Mar 3 11:21:39 2010 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 10:21:39 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program References: <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com> Message-ID: <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> > Why would the Costco rep at a dealer work under two names? This is done to protect the worker, in many cases. My cousin worked at an employment agency where all the ads in the media advised people to contact 'Mrs. Young'. In fact, the people at the agency took turns being 'Mrs. Young'. This way they were a bit insulated from anyone wanting to 'get even' or stalk or otherwise harass 'Mrs. Young'. Far from being devious, it is a worker protection. - Bill Rabel Anacortes, WA From cyberlaw at earthlink.net Wed Mar 3 11:45:14 2010 From: cyberlaw at earthlink.net (Steven T. Ekstrand) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 10:45:14 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> References: <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com> <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> Bill's right. Its called a "desk name". Very common and usually a good practice. In our world, maybe you've noticed the Tirerack does this. -Steve Ekstrand SoCal Bill Rabel wrote: >> Why would the Costco rep at a dealer work under two names? >> > > This is done to protect the worker, in many cases. My cousin worked at an > employment agency where all the ads in the media advised people to contact > 'Mrs. Young'. In fact, the people at the agency took turns being 'Mrs. Young'. > This way they were a bit insulated from anyone wanting to 'get even' or stalk > or otherwise harass 'Mrs. Young'. > > Far from being devious, it is a worker protection. > > > - Bill Rabel > Anacortes, WA From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Mar 3 12:08:35 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:08:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> References: <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com> <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003031108t6f5b9335wf8e2583ace7d8297@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Steven T. Ekstrand wrote: > Bill's right. Its called a "desk name". Very common and usually a good > practice. In our world, maybe you've noticed the Tirerack does this. > > It's always struck me as smarmy salesman hokum. It tends to inspire me to take my money elsewhere. If a salesman can't be honest about his own name, he'll lie about everything else. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mark at bradakis.com Wed Mar 3 12:15:58 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 12:15:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> References: <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com> <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4B8EB56E.7010209@bradakis.com> Such a tactic can also be used to track advertising. If they call for Mr. Smith, they heard the ad on the radio. If they call for Mr. Jones, they saw an ad in the paper. If they call for Mr. Bradakis, it is a wrong number ;-) mjb. From pat at hornesystemstx.com Wed Mar 3 12:41:29 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:41:29 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <4B8EB56E.7010209@bradakis.com> References: <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com> <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> <4B8EB56E.7010209@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4B8EBB69.6060902@hornesystemstx.com> I knew a fellow years ago who volunteered at a Suicide prevention hot line. Everyone there used a fake name. I can understand that more than I can a sales person doing it. I also know the owner of a business who tells sales people who cold call him that they need to speak with Mr. James, who isn't there at the moment. Any calls that come in for Mr. James are told that he is not there. This continues a few times until they give up. His rationale is that if a cold caller gets a real name that they spread it around to other cold callers, but if they don't get through to the person "in charge", they don't. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Mark J Bradakis, On 3/3/2010 1:15 PM: > Such a tactic can also be used to track advertising. If they call for > Mr. Smith, > they heard the ad on the radio. If they call for Mr. Jones, they saw > an ad in > the paper. If they call for Mr. Bradakis, it is a wrong number ;-) > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From mikey at b2systems.com Wed Mar 3 12:50:59 2010 From: mikey at b2systems.com (mike rambour) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:50:59 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <4B8EBB69.6060902@hornesystemstx.com> References: <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com> <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> <4B8EB56E.7010209@bradakis.com> <4B8EBB69.6060902@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <1267645859.25002.33.camel@WebBrowser> We did that at our last company, Jane was our non-existant Marketing manager. What was funny was that after a year or so, we started getting calls saying "I spoke to Jane last week and she asked me to call today" or "I just spoke with her a minute ago", always felt like saying that person does not exist, the person on the voice mail is the bosses daughter but I never did :) Reading Jane's e-mails were funny too, lots of "pleasure speaking with you earlier". I always had a crush on Jane, she was pretty cute but that was just a picture we purchased off a stock picture website to put on our website. mike On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 13:41 -0600, Pat Horne wrote: > I knew a fellow years ago who volunteered at a Suicide prevention hot > line. Everyone there used a fake name. I can understand that more than I > can a sales person doing it. > > I also know the owner of a business who tells sales people who cold call > him that they need to speak with Mr. James, who isn't there at the > moment. Any calls that come in for Mr. James are told that he is not > there. This continues a few times until they give up. His rationale is > that if a cold caller gets a real name that they spread it around to > other cold callers, but if they don't get through to the person "in > charge", they don't. > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake Mark J Bradakis, On 3/3/2010 1:15 PM: > > Such a tactic can also be used to track advertising. If they call for > > Mr. Smith, > > they heard the ad on the radio. If they call for Mr. Jones, they saw > > an ad in > > the paper. If they call for Mr. Bradakis, it is a wrong number ;-) > > > > mjb. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com From ejrussell at mebtel.net Wed Mar 3 13:19:20 2010 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:19:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <1267645859.25002.33.camel@WebBrowser> References: <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com><01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net><4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> <4B8EB56E.7010209@bradakis.com><4B8EBB69.6060902@hornesystemstx.com> <1267645859.25002.33.camel@WebBrowser> Message-ID: <5EA40A96CDA047CFB00E2CAB963D34C3@EricJRussellPC> >From my brother's internet ramblings: www.vernco.com --------- The nickname Vern came from another job, way back in another lifetime. My foreman's nemesis was a guy named Vern. My foreman was often dealing with somebody complaining about what Vern did. After a while, all forty of us in our department (Aircraft Maintenance) started giving the name Vern whenever asked, such as when answering the phone, awaking from naps, etc. This came in extremely handy whenever we got in trouble, as our foreman had to figure out which of the forty Verns was the real culprit. Long after the original Vern retired, we were still using his name. When we received internet access at work, all sorts of threatening memos were issued about personal use. Naturally it made sense to log on as Vern to use the work computers for surfing. We were hoping that if our company's internet police cracked down, they would report that a guy named Vern was disobeying company policy. The best part was that the real Vern was long retired, which would make the internet police look a tad bit foolish. ---------- Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > We did that at our last company, Jane was our non-existant Marketing > manager. From shiples at comcast.net Wed Mar 3 16:12:32 2010 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 15:12:32 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <5EA40A96CDA047CFB00E2CAB963D34C3@EricJRussellPC> References: <1267645859.25002.33.camel@WebBrowser> <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com> <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> <4B8EB56E.7010209@bradakis.com> <4B8EBB69.6060902@hornesystemstx.com> <1267645859.25002.33.camel@WebBrowser> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20100303151058.03811e70@mail.comcast.net> I see that Dr. Remington is code for an armed intruder at the nursing home. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Mar 3 16:30:35 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:30:35 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] ZEP ant baits In-Reply-To: <4AA2CE6E.5020802@earthlink.net> References: <20090905163615187.VIKC16127@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> <4AA2CE6E.5020802@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4CFE72800CE645748B595F376A16C5EE@jdnet.deere.com> Just to update an old topic (cleaning out my in-box), I bought the "Enforcer" brand ant baits that Brian recommended, but mistakenly got the "AntMax" variety. Although they don't work quite as well as the old ZEP baits, the Enforcer AntMax baits do seem to be effective against my ants. There were many colonies around the yard, but every time they find a bait, I see a small swarm for just a few days and then they stop (and there seem to be fewer ants in the yard). Except for trails to the baits, I've not seen an ant inside the house since putting them down. They haven't even found the Horehound hard candy I left exposed as a test. -- Randall From shop at justbrits.com Wed Mar 3 16:31:44 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:31:44 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car dealer tomfoolery and Costco Auto Buyer program In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20100303151058.03811e70@mail.comcast.net> References: <1267645859.25002.33.camel@WebBrowser> <0821F8E7-3083-4E74-B8EB-B16506F627A5@me.com> <01A87FC5-76A4-46A8-AC8D-F54540D5D3CB@comcast.net> <4B8EAE3A.40201@earthlink.net> <4B8EB56E.7010209@bradakis.com> <4B8EBB69.6060902@hornesystemstx.com> <1267645859.25002.33.camel@WebBrowser> <5.2.1.1.0.20100303151058.03811e70@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4B8EF160.7050302@justbrits.com> << I see that Dr. Remington is code for an armed intruder at the nursing home. >> That would be correct, Steve. Er, until Messrs. Colt, Smith & Wesson 'cure' the "invasion" !!! Messrs. Winchester & Berlinetta had the day off. Anon From eric at megageek.com Fri Mar 5 06:12:43 2010 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:42:43 +0430 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services Message-ID: As you know, I'm stuck here in Afghanistan. I have been tasked with finding a VOIP provider and phone to use. Since I have no friends back home that want to talk to me, I haven't used any of these services to any extent. I do have a free "Voxalot" account to call an IP phone in my house to talk to the housesitter, but it's a pain to use and maintain. So my first questions is, can anyone tell me which is better Vontage or Skype? (and why?) I have a pretty good internet connection here finally (1mb down and 512 Up), but we need a REALLY good speaker phone for calls back the US. Which company is better and which speakerphone works the best with them? I know that "magic jack" lets you use any standard phone, but it has advertising built into its paid service. So if you can recommend a speakerphone as well, that is cool. Price really isn't a big deal as I would image the phone and service shouldn't be more than $500. (BTW, I'm looking into getting a Polycom system as well, is there one of those that works on VOIP?) Thanks. Moose (Who still has no idea how long I'll be stuck here. I even started to take Dari language lessons!) "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From shiples at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 07:15:10 2010 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:15:10 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20100305060958.037b3ec8@mail.comcast.net> At 05:42 PM 3/5/2010 +0430, eric at megageek.com wrote: >As you know, I'm stuck here in Afghanistan. I have been tasked with >finding a VOIP provider and phone to use. > >Since I have no friends back home that want to talk to me, I haven't used >any of these services to any extent. I do have a free "Voxalot" account >to call an IP phone in my house to talk to the housesitter, but it's a >pain to use and maintain. > >So my first questions is, can anyone tell me which is better Vontage or >Skype? (and why?) > >I have a pretty good internet connection here finally (1mb down and 512 >Up), but we need a REALLY good speaker phone for calls back the US. > >Which company is better and which speakerphone works the best with them? I >know that "magic jack" lets you use any standard phone, but it has >advertising built into its paid service. I bought the MagicJack and a cheap Uniden phone and it doesn't work very well. Generally one side of the conversation gets dropped. My first year of service ended this year and I haven't renewed. Might be a problem with the phone rather than the service, of course, but I haven't given up my POTS. From bspidell at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 07:30:32 2010 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:30:32 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B911588.5090304@comcast.net> I have Vonage and overall I'm happy with it. Major difference with Skype is that Vonage is a hardware service and Skype is software; i.e. it requires a computer. My Vonage service came with a Linksys router--similar to the ubiquitous WRT54--that plugs into an ethernet connection and has two RJ-11 jacks for phones and/or a FAX (I hang it off a port from a WRT54). My Vonage router came pre-configured for my phone number. It's completely transparent. Once in a while the audio quality will deteriorate and I'll have to power cycle the Vonage router to regain it. Think VOIP requires about 80Kbps. Haven't kept up on Skype--last I heard they were going to start charging for calls. Unless they've developed a hardware solution, the Vonage service should be less hassle--it will be 'on' as long as you have an Internet connection--but more expensive. I get 400 min of domestic calling for about $25/mo. International will, of course, be more (if they don't offer a discount for service members, they should). We appreciate your service, even if we don't show it enough. Bob eric at megageek.com wrote: > As you know, I'm stuck here in Afghanistan. I have been tasked with > finding a VOIP provider and phone to use. > > Since I have no friends back home that want to talk to me, I haven't used > any of these services to any extent. I do have a free "Voxalot" account > to call an IP phone in my house to talk to the housesitter, but it's a > pain to use and maintain. > > So my first questions is, can anyone tell me which is better Vontage or > Skype? (and why?) > > I have a pretty good internet connection here finally (1mb down and 512 > Up), but we need a REALLY good speaker phone for calls back the US. > > Which company is better and which speakerphone works the best with them? I > know that "magic jack" lets you use any standard phone, but it has > advertising built into its paid service. > > So if you can recommend a speakerphone as well, that is cool. > > Price really isn't a big deal as I would image the phone and service > shouldn't be more than $500. > > (BTW, I'm looking into getting a Polycom system as well, is there one of > those that works on VOIP?) > > Thanks. > > Moose (Who still has no idea how long I'll be stuck here. I even started > to take Dari language lessons!) > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From tputland at charter.net Fri Mar 5 07:32:28 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 6:32:28 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100305093228.DZS09.2471867.root@mp12> I have had Vonage in my house. We had basically no problems with it. Customer service is a bit of a pain as no one who answers the phone has English as their first language, but, again, have had very few problems, I only had to call customer service twice I think. We used a regular cordless house phone with no issues. We have two different polycom units where I work: One is PC based PVX software and seems to work fine but you are limited to the size of the PC screen. The other unit is a stand alone codec that I think is a 7000vsx (attached to a 46" LCD screen). Most of the time the picture on this is very nice but quality is affected by older equipment on the other end of the connection. There is also an echo problem once in a while but I believe that is being caused by the set up on the other end of the connection. Both of these were a pain for our firewall team to configure firewall rules to get connectivity with outside entities. Both of our polcoms system use IP to IP connections right over the internet. Tim ---- eric at megageek.com wrote: ============= As you know, I'm stuck here in Afghanistan. I have been tasked with finding a VOIP provider and phone to use. Since I have no friends back home that want to talk to me, I haven't used any of these services to any extent. I do have a free "Voxalot" account to call an IP phone in my house to talk to the housesitter, but it's a pain to use and maintain. So my first questions is, can anyone tell me which is better Vontage or Skype? (and why?) I have a pretty good internet connection here finally (1mb down and 512 Up), but we need a REALLY good speaker phone for calls back the US. Which company is better and which speakerphone works the best with them? I know that "magic jack" lets you use any standard phone, but it has advertising built into its paid service. So if you can recommend a speakerphone as well, that is cool. Price really isn't a big deal as I would image the phone and service shouldn't be more than $500. (BTW, I'm looking into getting a Polycom system as well, is there one of those that works on VOIP?) Thanks. Moose (Who still has no idea how long I'll be stuck here. I even started to take Dari language lessons!) "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From mg_garage at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 07:42:41 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:42:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services References: Message-ID: <2A24875D66464454BDC11CE745171C71@stargate> I've had Vonage since about 2004 or 2005 and have been very happy with it. I haven't had a dropped or noisy call in a few years anyway. I simply wired it into my home phone system and am using all hte same phones I had before, well, except for the few wireless that I have since upgraded. I cannot speak to Skype or your other questions. HTH Gordie > As you know, I'm stuck here in Afghanistan. I have been tasked with > finding a VOIP provider and phone to use. > > Since I have no friends back home that want to talk to me, I haven't used > any of these services to any extent. I do have a free "Voxalot" account > to call an IP phone in my house to talk to the housesitter, but it's a > pain to use and maintain. > > So my first questions is, can anyone tell me which is better Vontage or > Skype? (and why?) > > I have a pretty good internet connection here finally (1mb down and 512 > Up), but we need a REALLY good speaker phone for calls back the US. > > Which company is better and which speakerphone works the best with them? I > know that "magic jack" lets you use any standard phone, but it has > advertising built into its paid service. > > So if you can recommend a speakerphone as well, that is cool. > > Price really isn't a big deal as I would image the phone and service > shouldn't be more than $500. > > (BTW, I'm looking into getting a Polycom system as well, is there one of > those that works on VOIP?) > > Thanks. > > Moose (Who still has no idea how long I'll be stuck here. I even started > to take Dari language lessons!) > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson From Gil.Fuqua at cci-ir.com Fri Mar 5 07:50:57 2010 From: Gil.Fuqua at cci-ir.com (Gil Fuqua) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 08:50:57 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20100305060958.037b3ec8@mail.comcast.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20100305060958.037b3ec8@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2968A0FF9B6E7A4EB08A6B3FED65DBC6035444@bnaexg01.cci-ir.com> I have used Skype for years. It is very reliable, voice quality is good and calling rates are excellent. Computer to computer calls work very well and are free. I'll call my son on his cell phone in Korea via Skype. That costs only a few cents per minute. He'll call me back on Skype and that part is free. I use a cheap USB VOIP phone that looks like an old Nokia handset for my office computer. They are available for about $10 from eBay. You can also configure the computer speakers and microphone to work with Skype. Good speakers on a computer are usually a lot better than most speakerphones. My home computer is set up to use a headset mic and the speakers on the computer. Works great as well. Gil Fuqua Nashville From shop at justbrits.com Fri Mar 5 18:44:27 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 19:44:27 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B91B37B.2030807@justbrits.com> /5Ocrxl: Permission denied From shop at justbrits.com Fri Mar 5 21:19:56 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:19:56 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services Message-ID: <4B91D7EC.5080203@justbrits.com> << Skype >> I have used a couple times, Moose. Very good. I used with head-set that has standard PPT switch OR alway-on [for mike]. Works GREAT. Using just the PPT switch DOES eliminate background noise a LOT. Tnx for what you do !! Ed From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Mar 9 13:05:32 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:05:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Wiring a new garage / shop Message-ID: <4B96AA0C.3020503@xxiii.com> Hey guys, a relative of mine is building a new garage and getting ready to wire it. He had a question about a "starter kit" breaker panel at Home Depot that sounds almost too cheap to be true. Know anything about these? From Pete: "Do you know anything about Home Depot's brand of main panels? They've got a 30 slot one that comes with the 200amp main, a 30, 50 and 12-20 amp breakers for $114. Seems like a nice price to me!" Are breakers generally all interchangeable between brands? (other than Square-D which I know are unique.) Any general suggestions for a motor-head's shop? (I know that's vague.) -Thanks, Wayne From peterwmurray at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 14:02:54 2010 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:02:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic VOIP phones and services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Moose- First, like others have said, thanks so much for your service. It is most appreciated! In a former job, I did a good amount of travel, and I eventually started dragging a very simple Uniden 5.8GHz cordless and a Vonage ATA around with me. Initally I used the Motorola ATA I received from them in 2004 when I first started service, but then I bought on eBay the Linksys WRTP54G (so I could also have wireless in my hotel room and beyond). With sufficient bandwidth, calls just worked, both on islands in the middle of the ocean and in Europe. I have never really noticed much difference in call quality when changing bandwidth settings (via the Vonage website) down to 50Kbps or 30Kbps from the full 90Kbps. Is your bandwidth there in Afghanistan delivered via satellite, or is it terrestrial? If via satellite, I suspect your call quality will suffer (because of the satellite-hop latency). Regarding the speakerphone, one can buy Polycom Soundstation EX systems (with two external microphones) for about $300: (example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310176473357). This example is designed to connect to POTS (an analog/FXO port), like that on a Vonage ATA. The advantage of Skype over Vonage is voice quality (with Skype-to-Skype calls). Vonage is simpler to use (plug in, dial number as if in USA) and supports standard POTS telephone equipment. -Peter -- Peter Murray (N3IXY) Oak Hill, VA On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:12 AM, wrote: > As you know, I'm stuck here in Afghanistan. I have been tasked with > finding a VOIP provider and phone to use. > > Since I have no friends back home that want to talk to me, I haven't used > any of these services to any extent. I do have a free "Voxalot" account > to call an IP phone in my house to talk to the housesitter, but it's a > pain to use and maintain. > > So my first questions is, can anyone tell me which is better Vontage or > Skype? (and why?) > > I have a pretty good internet connection here finally (1mb down and 512 > Up), but we need a REALLY good speaker phone for calls back the US. > > Which company is better and which speakerphone works the best with them? I > know that "magic jack" lets you use any standard phone, but it has > advertising built into its paid service. > > So if you can recommend a speakerphone as well, that is cool. > > Price really isn't a big deal as I would image the phone and service > shouldn't be more than $500. > > (BTW, I'm looking into getting a Polycom system as well, is there one of > those that works on VOIP?) > > Thanks. > > Moose (Who still has no idea how long I'll be stuck here. I even started > to take Dari language lessons!) > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray at gmail.com From doug at dougbraun.com Thu Mar 11 15:35:43 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:35:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question Message-ID: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I want to install an electrical outlet (the standard 120V duplex type) in a box where both phases (sic) are available. I have noticed that duplex receptacles normally have both sockets connected together, but there are little break-away tabs that would allow you to wire each socket independently. So, i was thinking of hooking up the receptacle so that each of the 120v phases was connected to a different socket (and of course the neutral was common to both). So, I am wondering: Is this code-compliant? Is there any disadvantage to doing it? BTW, the junction box is supplied from a single 20-amp duplex breaker. Thanks as always, Doug From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 16:12:31 2010 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:12:31 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think you need to control the circuit with a 220 breaker so that both phases will be turned off at the same time. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:35:43 -0800 > From: doug at dougbraun.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question > > Hello, > > I want to install an electrical outlet (the standard 120V duplex type) in a box where both phases (sic) are available. I have noticed that duplex receptacles normally have both sockets connected together, but there are little break-away tabs that would allow you to wire each socket independently. So, i was thinking of hooking up the receptacle so that each of the 120v phases was connected to a different socket (and of course the neutral was common to both). > > So, I am wondering: Is this code-compliant? Is there any disadvantage to doing it? BTW, the junction box is supplied from a single 20-amp duplex breaker. > > Thanks as always, > > Doug > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com From Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM Thu Mar 11 17:07:43 2010 From: Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM (Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:07:43 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question Message-ID: <20100311170743.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.f8fb24a28c.wbe@email.secureserver.net> /xusJtJ: Permission denied From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 17:53:32 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:53:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <20100311170743.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.f8fb24a28c.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20100311170743.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.f8fb24a28c.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003111653k2a13462fv2c0f5632772b08f4@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 7:07 PM, wrote: > /xusJtJ: Permission denied > > Another one of these, eh? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM Thu Mar 11 18:05:36 2010 From: Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM (Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:05:36 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question Message-ID: <20100311180536.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.a165296f92.wbe@email.secureserver.net> From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 18:14:17 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:14:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <20100311180536.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.a165296f92.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20100311180536.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.a165296f92.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003111714l63aeb1d0j66585ce16e1fc0e6@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:05 PM, wrote: > == > > Don't know what caused that. Here is the text I added: > > Doug, > > I don't think there is any problem with cutting the jumper between the two > brass screws on the outlet. Since there is a 2 pole 20 A circuit breaker, > you should use an outlet rated at 20A. If you go with a standard 15A outlet > you should replace the circuit breaker with a 15A unit. > > Be sure to use the screws to connect the wires to the outlet. Do not use > the poke in holes the back of the outlet. Some heavy duty outlets have holes > in the back that you insert the wires into, then tighten the screws to keep > the wires from pulling out, they are fine. > > Just in case there is a local requirement that makes this against code, it > would be a good idea to check with your local electrical inspector. > \ > You need to use a tied handle breaker, so that the condition where one of the outlets in the box is off and the other is still hot cannot occur. there is a specific provision in the NEC to allow the use of a 15A outlet on a 20A circuit. (That is the only case where you can use an outlet rated at other than the breaker's rating.) The more usual reason for breaking the common between the two outlets is so that one can be switched, while the other is hot always. But doing what you want to do is pretty common. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri Mar 12 15:16:05 2010 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:16:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> On 3/11/2010 5:35 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > Hello, > > I want to install an electrical outlet (the standard 120V duplex type) in a box where both phases (sic) are available. I have noticed that duplex receptacles normally have both sockets connected together, but there are little break-away tabs that would allow you to wire each socket independently. So, i was thinking of hooking up the receptacle so that each of the 120v phases was connected to a different socket (and of course the neutral was common to both). > Do not use a common neutral. Each outlet needs is own common return. If you use a 20A duplex break and 12 gauge 3 wire (4th wire bare ground) romex (rated 20A IIRC) and install 20A outlets, the two hot leads will be protected to 20A but a common return could be carrying 40A if you plug in 2 20A loads, twice the rating for 12 gauge. Peter Thomas From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Mar 12 15:39:10 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:39:10 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> Message-ID: <94C6CD41B586411CBE24A175A9D7B552@jdnet.deere.com> > the two hot leads will be protected to 20A but a common > return could be carrying 40A if you plug in 2 20A loads, > twice the rating for 12 gauge. This could be true, only if you have loads with extremely high harmonic content. Without harmonics, the two phases cancel each other and, if both hot leads are carrying 20A, there is no current in the neutral at all. Earlier versions of the NEC required the neutral to be oversize, due to the possibility of high harmonic loads; but I believe this has been removed in the latest version. Harmonic content is now required to be less than 5% (which is a giant PITA when designing a switching power supply). -- Randall From strovato at optonline.net Fri Mar 12 15:44:40 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:44:40 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Peter, I don't think that is correct. My house has two outlet circuits wired with a single run of 14-3 Romex and a 220 breaker. Some outlets use one side of the 220, some use the other. But they all use the common neutral. This was reasonably common practice to save wire, and met the code, at least 25 years ago when my house was built. Besides, I don't think the loads add the way you say. In fact, because they are out of phase, they cancel out. This is why you try to balance the load between the two sides of the 220 at the panel. DISCLAIMER: I am not an electrician. I can speak with authority on how my house was wired, but I'm not an authority on the National Electric Code, or whatever codes apply to where you live. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 05:16 PM 3/12/2010, Peter J. Thomas wrote: >Do not use a common neutral. Each outlet needs is own common return. >If you use a 20A duplex break and 12 gauge 3 wire (4th wire bare >ground) romex (rated 20A IIRC) and install 20A outlets, the two hot >leads will be protected to 20A but a common return could be carrying >40A if you plug in 2 20A loads, twice the rating for 12 gauge. > >Peter Thomas From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 15:47:27 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:47:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003121447y142f1c85t258e5b3c6c36a06c@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > On 3/11/2010 5:35 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I want to install an electrical outlet (the standard 120V duplex type) in >> a box where both phases (sic) are available. I have noticed that duplex >> receptacles normally have both sockets connected together, but there are >> little break-away tabs that would allow you to wire each socket >> independently. So, i was thinking of hooking up the receptacle so that each >> of the 120v phases was connected to a different socket (and of course the >> neutral was common to both). >> >> > Do not use a common neutral. Each outlet needs is own common return. If > you use a 20A duplex break and 12 gauge 3 wire (4th wire bare ground) romex > (rated 20A IIRC) and install 20A outlets, the two hot leads will be > protected to 20A but a common return could be carrying 40A if you plug in 2 > 20A loads, twice the rating for 12 gauge. 12/3 is generally legal for a mulitwire set up like this; the two hots are on different sides of ground (240 between them; 120 to ground), so there's no (real; there's theoretical ways to do it that don't happen in the real world) risk of overloading neutral. There are issues with GFCIs on multi-wire circuits. if you need GFCI, you need to either use a GFCI breaker designed for the purpose (expensive!) or split the run (into 12/2) before the first outlet, then you can use a GFCI as the first outlet on each side, or you can use a GFCI at each outlet. (There may still be some cases where the NEC requires an oversized neutral. I don't know of any, but I'm not a licensed electrician.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 15:50:01 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:50:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003121450k6198f715t9330035582834bd5@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Peter, > I don't think that is correct. My house has two outlet circuits wired with > a single run of 14-3 Romex and a 220 breaker. Some outlets use one side of > the 220, some use the other. But they all use the common neutral. This was > reasonably common practice to save wire, and met the code, at least 25 years > ago when my house was built. It's still common where there are long runs, or limited space in raceways or conduit. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri Mar 12 21:50:05 2010 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:50:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4B9B197D.5030909@comcast.net> On 3/12/2010 5:44 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Peter, > I don't think that is correct. My house has two outlet circuits wired > with a single run of 14-3 Romex and a 220 breaker. Some outlets use > one side of the 220, some use the other. But they all use the common > neutral. This was reasonably common practice to save wire, and met > the code, at least 25 years ago when my house was built. Besides, > I don't think the loads add the way you say. In fact, because they > are out of phase, they cancel out. This is why you try to balance the > load between the two sides of the 220 at the panel. DISCLAIMER: I am > not an electrician. I can speak with authority on how my house was > wired, but I'm not an authority on the National Electric Code, or > whatever codes apply to where you live. I had a conversion on 220 and phase difference with a licensed electrician some while ago and the topic of shared neutral came up. He denounced the practice sharing a neutral. I understand the phase difference cancelling and even asked him about it. He insisted it was a bad practice, and IIRC said he had seen failures. Just thought I would share the warning he gave me. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > > At 05:16 PM 3/12/2010, Peter J. Thomas wrote: >> Do not use a common neutral. Each outlet needs is own common return. >> If you use a 20A duplex break and 12 gauge 3 wire (4th wire bare >> ground) romex (rated 20A IIRC) and install 20A outlets, the two hot >> leads will be protected to 20A but a common return could be carrying >> 40A if you plug in 2 20A loads, twice the rating for 12 gauge. >> >> Peter Thomas From strovato at optonline.net Fri Mar 12 22:10:24 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:10:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <4B9B197D.5030909@comcast.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4B9B197D.5030909@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I'm not a big fan of it myself. It makes the wiring harder to figure out. You can't use a standard GFI type breaker. Independent control of the circuits would be nicer than the single 220 breaker. But I have never heard of anything that would make it any more prone to failure. At 11:50 PM 3/12/2010, Peter J. Thomas wrote: >I had a conversion on 220 and phase difference with a licensed >electrician some while ago and the topic of shared neutral came >up. He denounced the practice sharing a neutral. I understand the >phase difference cancelling and even asked him about it. He >insisted it was a bad practice, and IIRC said he had seen >failures. Just thought I would share the warning he gave me. From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri Mar 12 22:26:54 2010 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:26:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4B9B197D.5030909@comcast.net> <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4B9B221E.3020703@comcast.net> On 3/13/2010 12:10 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > I'm not a big fan of it myself. It makes the wiring harder to figure > out. You can't use a standard GFI type breaker. Independent control > of the circuits would be nicer than the single 220 breaker. But I > have never heard of anything that would make it any more prone to > failure. My electrician friend worked mostly in industrial/commercial so this may be why he denounced it. Only thing I can think of is a phase shift, but I'm just guessing. > > > At 11:50 PM 3/12/2010, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > >> I had a conversion on 220 and phase difference with a licensed >> electrician some while ago and the topic of shared neutral came up. >> He denounced the practice sharing a neutral. I understand the phase >> difference cancelling and even asked him about it. He insisted it >> was a bad practice, and IIRC said he had seen failures. Just thought >> I would share the warning he gave me. From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri Mar 12 22:28:24 2010 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:28:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4B9B197D.5030909@comcast.net> <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4B9B2278.5070601@comcast.net> On 3/13/2010 12:10 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > I'm not a big fan of it myself. It makes the wiring harder to figure > out. You can't use a standard GFI type breaker. Independent control > of the circuits would be nicer than the single 220 breaker. But I > have never heard of anything that would make it any more prone to > failure. BTW. Since he denounced it, it must be common? > > > At 11:50 PM 3/12/2010, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > >> I had a conversion on 220 and phase difference with a licensed >> electrician some while ago and the topic of shared neutral came up. >> He denounced the practice sharing a neutral. I understand the phase >> difference cancelling and even asked him about it. He insisted it >> was a bad practice, and IIRC said he had seen failures. Just thought >> I would share the warning he gave me. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Mar 12 22:44:11 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:44:11 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net><0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><4B9B197D.5030909@comcast.net> <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0c5301cac270$3596c740$0301a8c0@randall> > But I have never heard of anything that would make it any > more prone to failure. Where you get into trouble is with loads that are highly non-linear, like simple capacitive-input power supplies. These draw current from the line only when the instantaneous line voltage is higher than the DC voltage on the input capacitor, so the current draw is a series of pulses rather than a sine wave. If the pulses aren't perfectly matched, you can wind up with a situation where first one side's current flows through the neutral; and then the other side's current flows through the neutral; making the neutral 'see' twice the current of either leg by itself. I believe there were actually some fires caused by this, back in the 90's when office computers started becoming really common and the problem wasn't understood yet. However, modern computer power supplies are required to have very limited harmonic content (the difference between the pulses and a sine wave is called a harmonic), so it should be impossible to have the problem with computers made in the last decade or so. Randall From chad at linuxeg.com Fri Mar 12 23:06:06 2010 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chad on LEG) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 01:06:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <0c5301cac270$3596c740$0301a8c0@randall> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net><0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><4B9B197D.5030909@comcast.net> <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0c5301cac270$3596c740$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4B9B2B4E.1070500@linuxeg.com> /CGdnZg: Permission denied From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Mar 13 10:37:42 2010 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:37:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop Message-ID: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> My garage is a converted carport, and a previous tenant (sparrow) refuses to respect the new tenant (me). It keeps coming in and crapping on my motorcycles (it finds the mirrors particularly attractive). Other than spraying it with something flaming or sticky and then stomping it to death, how do I get it to not come in the garage anymore? Chasing it every day isn't getting the message through, no matter how much of a panic it gets itself into. I'm assuming relocating won't work. I really don't want to have to kill it, and a cat would mostly knock lots of stuff off the shelves in its attempt to. thanks, From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Mar 13 10:39:41 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:39:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Outlet wiring question In-Reply-To: <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <965077.7598.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4B9ABD25.2050508@comcast.net> <0KZ600JYQXUMQL01@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4B9B197D.5030909@comcast.net> <0KZ700KS3FQ50PM0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003130939u1ad8042cw3aa09c839bfe44db@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > I'm not a big fan of it myself. It makes the wiring harder to figure out. > > I'm betting on this being the real problem the electrician has with it. I've dealt with lots of tradespeople, and most of them don't like doing things in a way other than what they always do. Doesn't matter if the new way is faster, cheaper, better, easier, will make them more money, or if it's harder. It requires them to do something different, and they don't like doing it. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mark at bradakis.com Sat Mar 13 12:22:02 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:22:02 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Nice shop Message-ID: <4B9BE5DA.1090700@bradakis.com> Building a land speed car circa 1954: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/c9b793d097969105_large mjb. From mogpls8 at gmail.com Sat Mar 13 13:05:49 2010 From: mogpls8 at gmail.com (GaryK) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:05:49 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <001101cac2e8$94b4d280$be1e7780$@com> If you can stand it yourself, put some mothballs in nylon stocking bags along the doorway. It might keep them out. garyK -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jim Franklin Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:38 AM To: Shop-Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop My garage is a converted carport, and a previous tenant (sparrow) refuses to respect the new tenant (me). It keeps coming in and crapping on my motorcycles (it finds the mirrors particularly attractive). Other than spraying it with something flaming or sticky and then stomping it to death, how do I get it to not come in the garage anymore? Chasing it every day isn't getting the message through, no matter how much of a panic it gets itself into. I'm assuming relocating won't work. I really don't want to have to kill it, and a cat would mostly knock lots of stuff off the shelves in its attempt to. thanks, _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mogpls8 at gmail.com From lspector at gmail.com Sat Mar 13 13:15:09 2010 From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:15:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <167503c11003131215j380899f3w8be1bf9d12936e4b@mail.gmail.com> Is it able to get in on its own, or just when you open the door? I'd start by making sure it can't get in when you're not around. I suspect that if you lock it out for a few days, it'll give up and go find somewhere else to live. Barring that- how about leaving a loop of Hawk (or other predator bird) calls playing inside? On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > My garage is a converted carport, and a previous tenant (sparrow) refuses to > respect the new tenant (me). It keeps coming in and crapping on my motorcycles > (it finds the mirrors particularly attractive). Other than spraying it with > something flaming or sticky and then stomping it to death, how do I get it to > not come in the garage anymore? Chasing it every day isn't getting the message > through, no matter how much of a panic it gets itself into. I'm assuming > relocating won't work. I really don't want to have to kill it, and a cat would > mostly knock lots of stuff off the shelves in its attempt to. From ericm at lne.com Sat Mar 13 15:04:29 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:04:29 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <20100313220429.GA3569@slack.lne.com> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:37:42PM -0500, Jim Franklin wrote: > My garage is a converted carport, and a previous tenant (sparrow) refuses to > respect the new tenant (me). It keeps coming in and crapping on my motorcycles > (it finds the mirrors particularly attractive). Cover the mirrors. He thinks it's a rival sparrow in his territory, a particularly persistent one. We've seen this sort of thing before: http://blog.lauralemay.com/2000/04/lunacy-in-the-springtime.html Eric From shop at justbrits.com Sat Mar 13 15:39:51 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:39:51 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Nice shop In-Reply-To: <4B9BE5DA.1090700@bradakis.com> References: <4B9BE5DA.1090700@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4B9C1437.7000901@justbrits.com> OK Mark, I'll bit....... << Building a land speed car circa 1954: >> WHAT is that MOTOR [V-8] ???? From shop at justbrits.com Sat Mar 13 15:42:45 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:42:45 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <4B9C14E5.7020000@justbrits.com> << I really don't want to have to kill it, >> HeeHee, I would !! Barring that Jim, shotgun with blanks ?!?!? Ed PS: I HATE cleaning damaged paint on anything .........when caused by dumb-a**ed bird[s] !!! From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Mar 13 16:09:15 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:09:15 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Nice shop In-Reply-To: <4B9C1437.7000901@justbrits.com> References: <4B9BE5DA.1090700@bradakis.com> <4B9C1437.7000901@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003131509lfc77bf7u27c9482c434e734a@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Shop at " Just Brits " wrote: > OK Mark, I'll bit....... > > > << Building a land speed car circa 1954: >> > > WHAT is that MOTOR [V-8] ???? > > A Chrysler Fire Power V8. (If you know that, you can read it on the valve covers. It's the original Hemi. David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jamesf at groupwbench.org Sat Mar 13 21:31:48 2010 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:31:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <20100313220429.GA3569@slack.lne.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <20100313220429.GA3569@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: On Mar 13, 2010, at 5:04 PM, Eric Murray wrote: > > Cover the mirrors. He thinks it's a rival sparrow in his territory, > a particularly persistent one. > > We've seen this sort of thing before: Ah, tempting to believe, but no. The "evidence" suggests the sparrow cares not about any assumed territorial violations, as the "evidence" is deposited onto the mirror glass, clearly from the nether region of the sparrow. By your thinking, it also values the plastic container of electrical cords as a mortal rival. It gets in through a seekrit labyrinth in the stone wall. I have filled all visible cavities with Great Stuff bit still it persists. And since spring is coming I would like to have the garage door open, which means "rejection therapy" won't work. I like the idea of predator soundtrack but I would likely cave before the sparrow. There is a bb gun of sorts in the basement. If I could trap it or hold it stationary long enough...are there bird traps? From ericm at lne.com Sat Mar 13 21:40:29 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:40:29 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <20100313220429.GA3569@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <20100314044029.GC3569@slack.lne.com> On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:31:48PM -0500, Jim Franklin wrote: > > Ah, tempting to believe, but no. The "evidence" suggests the sparrow cares not > about any assumed territorial violations, as the "evidence" is deposited onto > the mirror glass, clearly from the nether region of the sparrow. The robins attacking the "rivals" they see reflected in the house windows truck bumper and more recently car mirrors do that too. I've had to cover my car mirrors to prevent the robins from gunking them up with robin poo. Just covering the mirrors they're after seems to work. Eric From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Mar 13 21:42:52 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:42:52 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org><20100313220429.GA3569@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <0dc101cac330$cebf23c0$0301a8c0@randall> > There is a bb gun of sorts in the basement. If I could trap > it or hold it > stationary long enough...are there bird traps? Many, many years ago, we discovered that mouse traps were surprisingly effective against sparrows. Didn't kill them, just knocked them unconscious for a few minutes. After awhile, they would wake up and fly away, apparently unharmed. Randall From bobkegel at comcast.net Sat Mar 13 21:44:03 2010 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:44:03 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201cac330$fbad8520$0301a8c0@MIKE> >...are there bird traps? From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat Mar 13 21:49:34 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:49:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> On 3/13/2010 12:37 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > My garage is a converted carport, and a previous tenant (sparrow) refuses to > respect the new tenant (me). It keeps coming in and crapping on my motorcycles > (it finds the mirrors particularly attractive). Other than spraying it with > something flaming or sticky and then stomping it to death, how do I get it to Well, WD-40 and a lighter can work really well. Just have an extinguisher and/or hose handy. I pretty much hate birds, except for the ones that are tasty or good hot sauce carriers, and even then only if someone else prepares them. I've had them do obnoxious stuff like nest in (and ruin) the gloves to my sand blast cabinet, nest on top of or behind the light covers of my garage door opener, get in my dryer vent, etc. Or just crap on all kinds of stuff in my garage & house. Google bird repellents or such, and you'll find a lot. I have a plastic owl "scarecrow" from Walmart that is fairly effective, and even scares the crap out of the wife's dog. Moving shiny things, like reflective mylar mobile repellants work. -w From strovato at optonline.net Sun Mar 14 13:14:01 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:14:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> OK, I know the basics about bending tubing. The situation I have is that I have purchased a stainless exhaust system designed for my particular model car. The problem is, it is not perfect. Some adjustments have to be made for it to fit into the car. I can take a torch, get an area red hot and apply a little pressure. I think if things go wrong, the side of the pipe that is being compressed tends to kink. I try to apply more of the heat to the stretching side. I also try to adjust by taking the bends that are already there, and increasing or decreasing them. Does anyone have any tricks I don't know for this job? Thanks. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From ronnie.day at gmail.com Sun Mar 14 13:26:09 2010 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:26:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <2faaebf81003141326m3e72bcccla274c4aa4d03f7a5@mail.gmail.com> > -Steve Trovato > OK, I know the basics about bending tubing. B The situation I have is that I > have purchased a stainless exhaust system designed for my particular model > car. B The problem is, it is not perfect. B Some adjustments have to be made > for it to fit into the car. B I can take a torch, get an area red hot and > apply a little pressure. B I think if things go wrong, B the side of the pipe > that is being compressed tends to kink. B I try to apply more of the heat to > the stretching side. B I also try to adjust by taking the bends that are > already there, and increasing or decreasing them. B Does anyone have any > tricks I don't know for this job? B Thanks. > Before I started altering it I'd contact the vendor or the manufacturer and ask them why it doesn't fit and what they suggest. Once you start messing with it they probably won't warranty it for you. Stainless systems are usually mandrel bent and without the mandrel inside when you try to bend it the tubing may kink or collapse. FWIW, Ron From strovato at optonline.net Sun Mar 14 13:49:16 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:49:16 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <2faaebf81003141326m3e72bcccla274c4aa4d03f7a5@mail.gmail.co m> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <2faaebf81003141326m3e72bcccla274c4aa4d03f7a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0KZA00DVFHUAY360@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Well, if I picked up at the local store, I might try that. This system was purchased from a supplier in England as it is unavailable in the US. There's no way it's going back. It was manufactured using a regular exhaust bending machine, without anything inside. You can see the usual deformations in the bends that one would get from the machine. Years ago, I remember seeing guys in muffler shops doing this all the time. If something is rubbing a little here or interfering a little there, they would break out the torch and tweak it. At 04:26 PM 3/14/2010, Ronnie Day wrote: > > -Steve Trovato > > > OK, I know the basics about bending tubing. B The situation I have is that >I > > have purchased a stainless exhaust system designed for my particular model > > car. B The problem is, it is not perfect. B Some adjustments have to be >made > > for it to fit into the car. B I can take a torch, get an area red hot and > > apply a little pressure. B I think if things go wrong, B the side of the >pipe > > that is being compressed tends to kink. B I try to apply more of the heat >to > > the stretching side. B I also try to adjust by taking the bends that are > > already there, and increasing or decreasing them. B Does anyone have any > > tricks I don't know for this job? B Thanks. > > > >Before I started altering it I'd contact the vendor or the >manufacturer and ask them why it doesn't fit and what they suggest. >Once you start messing with it they probably won't warranty it for >you. Stainless systems are usually mandrel bent and without the >mandrel inside when you try to bend it the tubing may kink or >collapse. > >FWIW, >Ron >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato at optonline.net From pethier at comcast.net Sun Mar 14 14:04:02 2010 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:04:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <171347042.1747091268600642612.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Who built the stainless system? Bell? Falcon? Somebody else? Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UB "uncle jack" 1979 Caterham 7 2004 Suburban 8.1 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org http://www.mnautox.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Mar 14 14:09:10 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:09:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA00DVFHUAY360@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <2faaebf81003141326m3e72bcccla274c4aa4d03f7a5@mail.gmail.com> <0KZA00DVFHUAY360@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003141409m5aa02ab5gb5b4698468a8d0c4@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Well, if I picked up at the local store, I might try that. This system was > purchased from a supplier in England as it is unavailable in the US. > There's no way it's going back. It was manufactured using a regular > exhaust bending machine, without anything inside. You can see the usual > deformations in the bends that one would get from the machine. Years ago, I > remember seeing guys in muffler shops doing this all the time. If something > is rubbing a little here or interfering a little there, they would break out > the torch and tweak it. > > I'd still contact the vendor. I've had an english vendor send me the exhaust for a RHD before. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From strovato at optonline.net Sun Mar 14 14:12:41 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:12:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust References: <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0KZA001OAIXW2Y50@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Ironically enough, the system was manufactured by Guaranteed Exhaust Systems, Ltd. They have a website at www.gsexhausts.co.uk. -Steve At 05:04 PM 3/14/2010, pethier at comcast.net wrote: >Who built the stainless system? Bell? Falcon? Somebody else? > >Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA >1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UB "uncle jack" >1979 Caterham 7 >2004 Suburban 8.1 >2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 >pethier [at] comcast [dot] net >http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier >http://www.triumphtransamerica.org >http://www.mnautox.com From strovato at optonline.net Sun Mar 14 14:19:12 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 17:19:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <2400a5d41003141409m5aa02ab5gb5b4698468a8d0c4@mail.gmail.co m> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <2faaebf81003141326m3e72bcccla274c4aa4d03f7a5@mail.gmail.com> <0KZA00DVFHUAY360@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <2400a5d41003141409m5aa02ab5gb5b4698468a8d0c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0KZA0094QJ7WT290@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I this case, my car is RHD. It's pretty clear to me that it is the exhaust intended for this car. They just got a few of the angles off by a couple of degrees. Just to take the mystery out of it, it's a 1955 MG Magnette. -Steve At 05:09 PM 3/14/2010, David Scheidt wrote: >I'd still contact the vendor.B I've had an >english vendor send me the exhaust for a RHD before. B From pat at hornesystemstx.com Sun Mar 14 14:26:37 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:26:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4B9D548D.1030206@hornesystemstx.com> Since you can't send it back, at least contact them to see if they have any suggestions. Next, find an exhaust shop and have them do the tweaking, they have the dies for it. If you have to do it yourself, I've used sand to keep smaller tubing from kinking when bending it. Just pack the tube tightly with dry sand and heat the pipe up. The sand will help keep the pipe from collapsing, but it will need more heat than an empty pipe. You can also make a metal shoe to fit the diameter of the pipe to help keep the tube from kinking, or find a heavy spring that will fit the exterior of pipe similar to the tubing bending springs used for copper tubing (without heat). Peace, Pat Thusly spake Steven Trovato, On 3/14/2010 3:14 PM: > OK, I know the basics about bending tubing. The situation I have is > that I have purchased a stainless exhaust system designed for my > particular model car. The problem is, it is not perfect. Some > adjustments have to be made for it to fit into the car. I can take a > torch, get an area red hot and apply a little pressure. I think if > things go wrong, the side of the pipe that is being compressed tends > to kink. I try to apply more of the heat to the stretching side. I > also try to adjust by taking the bends that are already there, and > increasing or decreasing them. Does anyone have any tricks I don't > know for this job? Thanks. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From strovato at optonline.net Sun Mar 14 15:18:39 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:18:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <4B9D548D.1030206@hornesystemstx.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4B9D548D.1030206@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <0KZA00D3TLZCV440@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> An exhaust shop could use their bender and dies to increase a bend, but I don't know how that would help when the goal is to decrease a bend. I could walk in with a pipe and ask for "a little more bend over here", but it is an iterative process. The car is on jack stands in my garage, so minor tweaking would be easiest if I could do it right there. I could always bring the whole car and system to some professional and pay him to make it all fit, but I'm not prepared to surrender just yet. The sand is a known technique, but it is quite a project, and I don't know anyone who has done that to make a minor adjustment on an exhaust pipe. Spring is a known technique as well, but finding the right spring is near impossible. Trying to get one into place in a bend in an already fabricated pipe seems like quite the challenge as well. Using some kind of a form is good advice when making or increasing a bend. I still think a torch and a little pressure is a reasonable approach for minor adjustments. I was just wondering if anyone had any other special tips for doing that effectively. -Steve At 05:26 PM 3/14/2010, Pat Horne wrote: >Since you can't send it back, at least contact them to see if they >have any suggestions. > >Next, find an exhaust shop and have them do the tweaking, they have >the dies for it. > >If you have to do it yourself, I've used sand to keep smaller tubing >from kinking when bending it. Just pack the tube tightly with dry >sand and heat the pipe up. The sand will help keep the pipe from >collapsing, but it will need more heat than an empty pipe. > >You can also make a metal shoe to fit the diameter of the pipe to >help keep the tube from kinking, or find a heavy spring that will >fit the exterior of pipe similar to the tubing bending springs used >for copper tubing (without heat). > >Peace, >Pat From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Mar 14 15:30:37 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:30:37 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA00D3TLZCV440@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org><4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><4B9D548D.1030206@hornesystemstx.com> <0KZA00D3TLZCV440@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0fc101cac3c5$f878cb40$0301a8c0@randall> > but I don't know how that would help when the goal is to decrease a > bend. If you just want to decrease an existing bend by a little, I would suggest doing it cold. It won't take a lot of encouragement for the pipe to return towards it's original shape, and it's not likely to crimp if you aren't going very far. > I still think a torch and a little pressure is a reasonable approach > for minor adjustments. I've tried that, with limited success. Have a really hard time getting a large enough area soft enough to bend, without overheating a smaller area. Maybe I just need a bigger torch. Randall From strovato at optonline.net Sun Mar 14 15:49:55 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:49:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0fc101cac3c5$f878cb40$0301a8c0@randall> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4B9D548D.1030206@hornesystemstx.com> <0KZA00D3TLZCV440@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0fc101cac3c5$f878cb40$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <0KZA009MZNFWT2A0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Well, you must be a stronger man than I am. The only way I could possibly see doing that is where a bend has a couple of feet of straight pipe on each side for leverage. It doesn't always work out like that. If you ever get a chance to see the "Working with Tubing" DVD by Ron Covell, he takes a piece of metal channel and sets a piece of tubing in it raised up on some stands, maybe an inch high. He claims the metal channel redirects heat from the torch back onto the pipe. Anyway, he gets a section of tubing a foot or so long bright red using an oxyacetylene torch. He just keeps running the torch back and forth while turning the tubing a little bit. Maybe I can get him to come over and give me a few pointers. -Steve At 06:30 PM 3/14/2010, Randall wrote: > > but I don't know how that would help when the goal is to decrease a > > bend. > >If you just want to decrease an existing bend by a little, I would suggest >doing it cold. It won't take a lot of encouragement for the pipe to return >towards it's original shape, and it's not likely to crimp if you aren't >going very far. > > > I still think a torch and a little pressure is a reasonable approach > > for minor adjustments. > >I've tried that, with limited success. Have a really hard time getting a >large enough area soft enough to bend, without overheating a smaller area. >Maybe I just need a bigger torch. > >Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Mar 14 18:07:20 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:07:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA009MZNFWT2A0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org><4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><4B9D548D.1030206@hornesystemstx.com><0KZA00D3TLZCV440@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><0fc101cac3c5$f878cb40$0301a8c0@randall> <0KZA009MZNFWT2A0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <102c01cac3db$dd677700$0301a8c0@randall> > Well, you must be a stronger man than I am. Or perhaps just a little more creative with cheater bars, jacks & such I've even been known to use the hydraulic press as a bender, although for exhaust pipe you'd probably want to make some mandrels from scrap lumber. Suitable hole saw through a scrap of 2x4, then split it; would do for a small bend I think. But I modified a 7/8" diameter sway bar that way the other day, using only a round chunk of steel between the ram & bar (plus some flat scraps of wood between the bar & table), and it came out OK. Randall From shop at justbrits.com Sun Mar 14 19:50:56 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:50:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA00D3TLZCV440@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4B9D548D.1030206@hornesystemstx.com> <0KZA00D3TLZCV440@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4B9DA090.2080205@justbrits.com> << ...but I'm not prepared to surrender just yet. >> My .02 Steve !! Considering how MUCH money you have 'invested' in the system SAYS [be VERY smart] & "surrender". Unless of course, you don't mind PURCHASING another system. "A man has GOT to know his limitations." Ed From shochschild at att.net Sun Mar 14 20:51:36 2010 From: shochschild at att.net (shochschild at att.net) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:51:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4B9DAEC8.4000409@att.net> I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this, but enough heat to make it bendable might discolor the stainless, or even worse, 'sugar' it, which is a term I have heard to describe what happens when the nickel is melted off, leaving the stainless less so. This would matter to me if I was putting a car as old as I am back on the road... > OK, I know the basics about bending tubing. The situation I have is > that I have purchased a stainless exhaust system designed for my > particular model car. The problem is, it is not perfect. Some > adjustments have to be made for it to fit into the car. I can take a > torch, get an area red hot and apply a little pressure. I think if > things go wrong, the side of the pipe that is being compressed tends > to kink. I try to apply more of the heat to the stretching side. I > also try to adjust by taking the bends that are already there, and > increasing or decreasing them. Does anyone have any tricks I don't > know for this job? Thanks. From nick at landform.co.uk Mon Mar 15 00:38:37 2010 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:38:37 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA001OAIXW2Y50@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0KZA001OAIXW2Y50@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4B9DE3FD.8050305@landform.co.uk> Steven Trovato wrote: > Ironically enough, the system was manufactured by Guaranteed Exhaust > Systems, Ltd. They have a website at www.gsexhausts.co.uk. > Email the supplier a picture of the exhaust highlighting the problem and ask for suggestions. Website looks professional enough. They're based the other end of the country from me or I could call and see them. If you want send me a picture and I can phone them. Is the car a ZB Magnette? Nick Brearley From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Mon Mar 15 10:15:18 2010 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim (IS)) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Adjusting exhaust In-Reply-To: <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org><4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <0KZA006Z8G8X9XH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C79703FFD7F2@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> > Some adjustments have to be made for it to fit into the car. Besides the torch and other suggestions, Harbor Freight sells a couple of cheap hydraulic pipe benders (something along the lines of: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=32888) - they might be of help making small changes in the bends. Tim Mullen From battmain at yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 12:27:58 2010 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Geez, after reading about everyone's woes with the birds, I don't feel so bad after my years long battle with the rats in my car's engine compartment. I've finally found some pretty effective (and expensive) rat traps, but now that I seemed to have eliminated the rats, a possum has moved in. The nest spans both sides of the engine compartment. I'll deal with him soon and it wont be pretty. (evil laugh) Brian battmain at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Wayne (snip) On 3/13/2010 12:37 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > My garage is a converted carport, and a previous tenant (sparrow) refuses to > respect the new tenant (me). It keeps coming in and crapping on my motorcycles > (it finds the mirrors particularly attractive). Other than spraying it with > something flaming or sticky and then stomping it to death, how do I get it to Well, WD-40 and a lighter can work really well. Just have an extinguisher and/or hose handy. I pretty much hate birds, except for the ones that are tasty or good hot sauce carriers, and even then only if someone else prepares them. I've had them do obnoxious stuff like nest in (and ruin) the gloves to my sand blast cabinet, nest on top of or behind the light covers of my garage door opener, get in my dryer vent, etc. Or just crap on all kinds of stuff in my garage & house. (snip) From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Mon Mar 15 12:37:29 2010 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim (IS)) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:37:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org><4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C79703FFD8EE@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Speaking (well typing) of birds in the wrong places... Over the weekend, I was in my local Wal-Mart - we went in through the garden area (the semi-covered area where they put the grills, and outdoor "stuff"). I noticed a screeching/squawking sound that came from various areas. Looking closer, I noticed small green speakers around the roof areas, and the system made the screeching/squawking sounds "appear" to move around the area. Thinking about it, I realiesed that it was predators sounds (i.e. hawks), and it was all a system to scare away the sparrows that would usually inhabit such an area. There were no sparrows in the area so it must work. Tim Mullen From pat at hornesystemstx.com Mon Mar 15 12:37:57 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:37:57 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B9E8C95.6000603@hornesystemstx.com> I've had great luck with the electric rat/mouse traps put out by Victor. They run on batteries and give the varmints a jolt around 10,000 volts. When it is mouse season we get at least one a day, which thins them out in a hurry. I bought ours at Tractor Supply, but you should be able to find the just about anywhere. Cost, about $50. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Battmain, On 3/15/2010 2:27 PM: > Geez, after reading about everyone's woes with the birds, I don't feel so bad after my years long battle with the rats in my car's engine compartment. I've finally found some pretty effective (and expensive) rat traps, but now that I seemed to have eliminated the rats, a possum has moved in. The nest spans both sides of the engine compartment. I'll deal with him soon and it wont be pretty. (evil laugh) > > Brian > battmain at yahoo.com > > > ________________________________ > From: Wayne > (snip) > > On 3/13/2010 12:37 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > >> My garage is a converted carport, and a previous tenant (sparrow) refuses to >> respect the new tenant (me). It keeps coming in and crapping on my motorcycles >> (it finds the mirrors particularly attractive). Other than spraying it with >> something flaming or sticky and then stomping it to death, how do I get it to >> > > Well, WD-40 and a lighter can work really well. Just have an extinguisher and/or hose handy. I pretty much hate birds, except for the ones that are tasty or good hot sauce carriers, and even then only if someone else prepares them. > > I've had them do obnoxious stuff like nest in (and ruin) the gloves to my sand blast cabinet, nest on top of or behind the light covers of my garage door opener, get in my dryer vent, etc. Or just crap on all kinds of stuff in my garage & house. > (snip) > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From battmain at yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 14:22:02 2010 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <4B9E8C95.6000603@hornesystemstx.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org> <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com> <73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4B9E8C95.6000603@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <584335.16228.qm@web57003.mail.re3.yahoo.com> The traps I'm using are a plastic version. The pro version is branded T-rex, while the home version of similar build is the Tomcat. They have been working good so far. Last one I tied down and something ate the rat it caught. Only the head was left in the trap, roughly 24hrs after I set it. I did see the zappers and was going to purchase one before I read about the plastic traps. I have a few of the plastic traps set and I have two more to set but need to find some more string to tie it down. I think the possum was the culprit making them vanish. As I mentioned to someone else, there is some evil satisfaction in using these traps. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Pat Horne To: Battmain (snip) I've had great luck with the electric rat/mouse traps put out by Victor. They run on batteries and give the varmints a jolt around 10,000 volts. When it is mouse season we get at least one a day, which thins them out in a hurry. I bought ours at Tractor Supply, but you should be able to find the just about anywhere. Cost, about $50. (snip) From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Mon Mar 15 14:22:22 2010 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:22:22 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <4B9E8C95.6000603@hornesystemstx.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org>, <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com>, <73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>, <4B9E8C95.6000603@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: Are these what you are using? http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/457422-electronic_mouse_trap.html?lref=% 2fcatalog%2ffind.aspx%3ft%3drat%2btrap Farm and Fleet has them for about $20 Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:37:57 -0500 > From: pat at hornesystemstx.com > To: battmain at yahoo.com > CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop > > I've had great luck with the electric rat/mouse traps put out by Victor. > They run on batteries and give the varmints a jolt around 10,000 volts. > When it is mouse season we get at least one a day, which thins them out > in a hurry. I bought ours at Tractor Supply, but you should be able to > find the just about anywhere. Cost, about $50. > > Peace, > Pat From gsteve at hammatt.com Mon Mar 15 14:58:57 2010 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:58:57 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation Message-ID: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> We've got a 2002 GMC HD2500 pickup for towing our enclosed car trailer. It sits much of the time, outside next to the trailer. The Extended Cab truck has become home for one or more mice. I can't seem to find where they're getting access. So far, no luck with the mouse traps. They seem to like the glove box but there's evidence of travel all around the seats and console. Maybe someone (besides the mice) knows of a weakness in the body where they could be getting in? Thanks. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From ericm at lne.com Mon Mar 15 15:21:01 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:21:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> Message-ID: <20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> I have had good luck using snap traps baited with fresh peanut butter. Place the trap with the long side along an edge, i.e. next to the trans tunnel. Rodents tend to avoid open spaces. Change the traps every day or two- put in fresh bait and move them around. Whatever you do, take care of the problem quick. I didn't in my GMC (actually I didn't know they were in it; I wasn't driving it often enough) and the critters ate $400 worth of wiring under the hood. If there's brush or bushes close to the vehicle, trim them back. The more open area they have to cover to get to the vehicle the less likely they are to set up housekeeping in it. Eric From bolin at mwt.net Mon Mar 15 15:30:50 2010 From: bolin at mwt.net (Bob Jeffers) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:30:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> Message-ID: <293B0F96CE2949F2A7A8AFC9295A7827@BobPC> I have the same problem with my tow vehicle. The only place that I can see that they can get in is through the fresh air vents. What I do is just feed them. I put rat poison in the cab and when they start to eat it just keep adding. Use a different brand every year. I forgot to put the poison in last fall and they moved right in. When I found them fed them up good and just checked the cab today and they haven't touched what is in their. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:58 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation > We've got a 2002 GMC HD2500 pickup for towing our enclosed car trailer. > It sits much of the time, outside next to the trailer. > The Extended Cab truck has become home for one or more mice. I can't seem > to find where they're getting access. So far, no luck with the mouse > traps. They seem to like the glove box but there's evidence of travel all > around the seats and console. > Maybe someone (besides the mice) knows of a weakness in the body where > they could be getting in? > Thanks. > > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bolin at mwt.net From gsteve at hammatt.com Mon Mar 15 15:31:32 2010 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:31:32 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> <20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: We've gone with the peanut butter route, but no luck. The truck is on gravel and not within 20 years of any vegetation except nearby lawn. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Murray" To: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" Cc: "Shop Talk" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation > > > I have had good luck using snap traps baited with fresh peanut > butter. > > Place the trap with the long side along an edge, i.e. next to > the trans tunnel. Rodents tend to avoid open spaces. > Change the traps every day or two- put in fresh bait and move them > around. > > Whatever you do, take care of the problem quick. I didn't in my GMC > (actually I didn't know they were in it; I wasn't driving it > often enough) and the critters ate $400 worth of wiring under the > hood. > > If there's brush or bushes close to the vehicle, trim them back. > The more open area they have to cover to get to the vehicle > the less likely they are to set up housekeeping in it. > > Eric From ericm at lne.com Mon Mar 15 15:55:46 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:55:46 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> <20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <20100315225546.GD7175@slack.lne.com> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 03:31:32PM -0700, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > We've gone with the peanut butter route, but no luck. What's "no luck"? Traps snapped but no critter, or bait eaten but trap not snaped, or trap untouched? For 1, the traps not in the right place, or you have the wrong size critter for your trap. (a mouse trap doesn't kill a rat it just gives him a wedgie) For #2, the trigger or bail is rusty or dirty. Easier to just get a new one. Or you didn't stick the PB down inside the "tube" in the trigger. You need to make them work for it. For #3, the trap is in the wrong place. Or the critters prefer organic and you gave them Jif. I've used organic recently but when I trapped mice for field studies (using modified snap traps taped to PVC pipes to capture but not kill) we used commercial PB with success. Eric From pat at hornesystemstx.com Mon Mar 15 15:56:43 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:56:43 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org>, <4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com>, <73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com>, <4B9E8C95.6000603@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <4B9EBB2B.50407@hornesystemstx.com> Nope, too small The ones I used don't appear on Victor's web site, but go to home depot and search for "victor electronic rat trap". This trap is about 9x4x5 and runs on 4 C cells. The opening is about 3" square. It is Model # M240. Happy Zapping! Peace, Pat Thusly spake Rich White, On 3/15/2010 4:22 PM: > Are these what you are using? > > > > http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/457422-electronic_mouse_trap.html?lref=% > 2fcatalog%2ffind.aspx%3ft%3drat%2btrap > > Farm and Fleet has them for about $20 > > > > Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA > '63 TR3B TCF587L > That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:37:57 -0500 >> From: pat at hornesystemstx.com >> To: battmain at yahoo.com >> CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop >> >> I've had great luck with the electric rat/mouse traps put out by Victor. >> They run on batteries and give the varmints a jolt around 10,000 volts. >> When it is mouse season we get at least one a day, which thins them out >> in a hurry. I bought ours at Tractor Supply, but you should be able to >> find the just about anywhere. Cost, about $50. >> >> Peace, >> Pat >> > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Mar 15 15:59:20 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:59:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> <20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <001b01cac493$292b4a60$7b81df20$@rr.com> > The truck is on gravel and not within 20 years of any > vegetation except nearby lawn. Man, that is one slow truck ! FWIW, the green "outdoor" rat baits from Home Depot seem to work fine for our "roof rats". I put them in places that larger animals (dogs, cats) can't get to, like under a box with a hole in it or up in the rafters, eaves and attic. Doesn't kill right away, so the rats will come back for more over a week or so. Seems to also have the effect of making them crave open spaces; at least none of mine have died inside walls or hard to reach places. -- Randall From pj_thomas at comcast.net Mon Mar 15 16:00:48 2010 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:00:48 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> Message-ID: <4B9EBC20.8090100@comcast.net> On 3/15/2010 5:58 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > We've got a 2002 GMC HD2500 pickup for towing our enclosed car > trailer. It sits much of the time, outside next to the trailer. > The Extended Cab truck has become home for one or more mice. I can't > seem to find where they're getting access. So far, no luck with the > mouse traps. They seem to like the glove box but there's evidence of > travel all around the seats and console. > Maybe someone (besides the mice) knows of a weakness in the body where > they could be getting in? Firewall or ventilation. Mice don't need much of an open and can make their own. Check the heating system for droppings. Mice love filter boxes. Best traps are the fly paper type called glue traps. Down side is they don't kill so consider when using. Peter Thomas. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Mar 15 16:19:08 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:19:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> Message-ID: <4B9EC06C.9050104@xxiii.com> On 3/15/2010 5:58 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > The Extended Cab truck has become home for one or more mice. I can't > seem to find where they're getting access. So far, no luck with the > mouse traps. They seem to like the glove box but there's evidence of > travel all around the seats and console. I have a car that's been left sitting outside that's been destroyed by mice. They've apparently been coming in the AC condensation drain on the firewall, and nesting inside the heater core / AC box. There is nasty liquid draining out of it into the passenger footwell that I assume is mouse sewage. Other entry point is air vents in the trunk. Don't know about trucks, but this is common design on cars. There are vents inside the trunk, behind the fender wells. Air from the HVAC blows through the cabin, down vents under the rear windshield, into the trunk, and out these vents. I ripped out most the interior, due to the mouse problems, and water damage from a leaking sunroof. But the poor thing just needs to go to the scrapyard at this point. -Wayne From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Mar 15 16:23:41 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:23:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> <20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <4B9EC17D.2000601@xxiii.com> On 3/15/2010 6:31 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > We've gone with the peanut butter route, but no luck. > The truck is on gravel and not within 20 years of any > vegetation except nearby lawn. I'll also caution you that (in my experience) leaving a vehicle on gravel, grass or other breathable surface will rot it at a greatly accelerated rate. If you have to leave it on gravel for extended periods, consider putting a tarp under it to cut down on the moisture. Maybe stick a treated 4x4 or something down the length to raise the tarp and prevent rain water from pooling, and stick it down with the big staples sodl for weed cloth. -Wayne From racertod at racertodd.com Mon Mar 15 16:36:36 2010 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:36:36 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation Message-ID: <5dff6e49233da9732156218186393f07@www.avvantamail.com> I had a rash of Norway Rat-bastards getting in the engine compartments of both my TDI (car is outside) and the GTI (car is in garage). What eventually ended my infestation was some bait stations and Contrac poison from Do Your Own Pest Control (www.doyourownpestcontrol.com). I dislike having to empty traps, I prefer poison so they can go off and die somewhere without me having to deal with the dead bodies. My secondary method was to get some "place packs" like these from D-Con: www.d-conproducts.com/baits/place-packs.html My car, like most newer cars, has a plastic engine cover. The rats would set up a dinner table on the cover and in the morning I'd find remnants of their meal plus pellets and urine trails. I took one of the place packs, put a 2" square piece of double stick tape on it and taped it to the top of my engine cover. This way they'd mosey on in and find a nice, tasty (albeit deadly) snack already waiting for them. Once stuffed with food/poison, they head back home to die and don't stick around the engine compartment chewing on insulation and setting up housekeeping. I checked under the hood every morning. If the place pack had been chewed, I removed it and replaced it with a new one. If it wasn't touched, I just left it and drove around with it in place (hence the double-stick tape). The bait stations showed activity for a week or two. I had two place packs eaten during that time. After two weeks, no activity at all. I kept a place pack on the engine for another several weeks just to be sure. Bait stations are still in place, checked periodically. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 270,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 233,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Mon Mar 15 16:49:48 2010 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:49:48 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> Message-ID: ABOVE ALL, DON'T USE POISIN BAIT! They will die in some place you don't want them? My best results for catching mice, rats and chipmunks has been with a Rat Zapper which electrocutes them. You know exactly where the body will be and all you have to do is dump them out. I use peanuts for bait. In order to discourage them from coming in there in the first place, there are a number of things you can do. 1) Sprinkle the area around the truck liberally with cayenne pepper. You can buy a big jar at Sam's Club for less than $5. 2) Scatter moth balls around in the vehicle if you can stand the smell. 3) Scatter scented fabric softener sheets in the vehicle. 4) For areas under the hood where it doesn't matter if it gets a little oily, you can spray it with "Squeak Out". You can get this at John Deere dealers. It is intended to eliminate squeaks, even those coming from 4 footed creatures. 5) If you can find the places where they are getting in, stuff them with coarse steel wool. But remember, a mouse can dislocate their bones and squeeze through places you think are impossible. From ericm at lne.com Mon Mar 15 16:49:45 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:49:45 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <5dff6e49233da9732156218186393f07@www.avvantamail.com> References: <5dff6e49233da9732156218186393f07@www.avvantamail.com> Message-ID: <20100315234945.GE7175@slack.lne.com> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 04:36:36PM -0700, Todd Walke wrote: > > What eventually ended my infestation was some bait stations and Contrac > poison from Do Your Own Pest Control (www.doyourownpestcontrol.com). I > dislike having to empty traps, I prefer poison so they can go off and > die somewhere without me having to deal with the dead bodies. The problem with poison is that the poison also poisons anything that eats the sick rodent. I want to encourage the local predators, not kill them or make them sick. Not to mention that I have an indoor/outdoor cat who likes to kill and eat rodents. I want her to keep that up. Poison is a pretty gruesome way to die. I want to get rid of the rodents, not make them suffer. It's not their fault that I put a nice warm dry space right where they can use it. I don't mind getting rid of the bodies. It's a reminder that I'm taking a life, even if it's just a rodent. Eric From malaboge at aol.com Mon Mar 15 20:34:08 2010 From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:34:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rats and Mice Message-ID: <8CC92D0ABAB0F58-2B40-4EF5@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> Fellow Mousers, I'm at my wits end with these puppies...actually that really doesn't take a very long trip...but, I've tried all the sorts of traps I can find. The little buggers have held classes on how to avoid them actually I think I'm dealin with the college crowd now. At first the traps worked. After a while different bait didn't attract them any more. So on to electronic traps, which again worked for a while...well at least until the skunk got his head in there and sprayed the Corvette...grrr...wouldn't go near that one again. After shellin out for another, they stopped visiting it also. Even tried a Hav-a-Heart live trap. It worked for a while and they got tired of it too...especially after a skunk got in that one too. All sorts of poisons all over the place..they don't touch them either, even tho they stockpile the stuff on the engine. Even tried those ultrasonic noise emitters...they "left their mark" right next to those. So far every one of my cars has lost the hood pad. My jeep must have especially tasty wiring as the last go round cost me almost a G for a new computer and some injectors. The MINI lost an alternator, and the race car looks like it has a flat black hood from all the overnite mouse hootenannys. The list goes on... Worst part is that they can do this overnite. I leave the hoods up, but they still love it there...maybe they're holding rat technical schools under there? I'm open for any ideas here...help! Rats Nick in NorCal From eric at megageek.com Mon Mar 15 20:33:08 2010 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:03:08 +0430 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <20100315225546.GD7175@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: Eric writes... >I've used organic recently but when I trapped mice for >field studies (using modified snap traps taped to PVC pipes >to capture but not kill) we used commercial PB with success. My last girlfriend was having mice problems in her apartment. I gave her my traps to use. But she put on some organic PB. The mice wouldn't touch it. I tried some of the PB and *I* wouldn't eat it either. I always use store brand PB for my traps. She decided it was easier to foster a pregnant cat from the shelter instead. Once the kittens were old enough, they became amazing hunters. Mice were gone, then she adopted the cats out. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From jibjib at att.net Mon Mar 15 22:09:33 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:09:33 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC><20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <1CAA063CAC10438F9C898A0F27B7E513@hpa1477c> Salami for mice. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:32 PM To: Eric Murray Cc: Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation We've gone with the peanut butter route, but no luck. The truck is on gravel and not within 20 years of any vegetation except nearby lawn. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Murray" To: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" Cc: "Shop Talk" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation > > > I have had good luck using snap traps baited with fresh peanut > butter. > > Place the trap with the long side along an edge, i.e. next to > the trans tunnel. Rodents tend to avoid open spaces. > Change the traps every day or two- put in fresh bait and move them > around. > > Whatever you do, take care of the problem quick. I didn't in my GMC > (actually I didn't know they were in it; I wasn't driving it > often enough) and the critters ate $400 worth of wiring under the > hood. > > If there's brush or bushes close to the vehicle, trim them back. > The more open area they have to cover to get to the vehicle > the less likely they are to set up housekeeping in it. > > Eric _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From jdrush at enter.net Mon Mar 15 22:39:40 2010 From: jdrush at enter.net (Rush) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 01:39:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <4B9EC06C.9050104@xxiii.com> References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> <4B9EC06C.9050104@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4B9F199C.807@enter.net> I got a set of Victor Quick Set traps: http://www.victorpest.com/store/rodent-control/b130-2 They are killing machines. Super-easy to bait and set. I've killed over a dozen mice with just two traps. Empty, sprung traps are rare. I did make the mistake of getting peanut butter on the rim and ended up with one of the buggers carrying it off by his whiskers. He escaped and the rest of his family clawed the trap all over trying to get to the PB. I found the trap down a hole, cleaned it up and I am still using it to get the rest of the family. It's personal now. The old style snap traps with the newer plastic triggers became a joke, as the mice would waltz off with the bait 4 out of 5 times. They were difficult to set too. Just a waste of my time. Jon On 3/15/2010 7:19 PM, Wayne wrote: > On 3/15/2010 5:58 PM, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: >> The Extended Cab truck has become home for one or more mice. I can't >> seem to find where they're getting access. So far, no luck with the >> mouse traps. They seem to like the glove box but there's evidence of >> travel all around the seats and console. > > I have a car that's been left sitting outside that's been destroyed by > mice. They've apparently been coming in the AC condensation drain on the > firewall, and nesting inside the heater core / AC box. There is nasty > liquid draining out of it into the passenger footwell that I assume is > mouse sewage. > > Other entry point is air vents in the trunk. Don't know about trucks, > but this is common design on cars. There are vents inside the trunk, > behind the fender wells. Air from the HVAC blows through the cabin, down > vents under the rear windshield, into the trunk, and out these vents. > > I ripped out most the interior, due to the mouse problems, and water > damage from a leaking sunroof. But the poor thing just needs to go to > the scrapyard at this point. > > -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdrush at enter.net From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Tue Mar 16 03:45:28 2010 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 06:45:28 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rats and Mice In-Reply-To: <8CC92D0ABAB0F58-2B40-4EF5@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Nick one of the things you have to do with the electronic zappers is to "sanitize" them after two or three "hits".....take the batteries out. Put about an inch of hot water in pan. A little soap and bleach. Set the zapper in there for a few minutes and maybe even use a bottle brush to scrub the metal floor. Rinse it. Dry it thoroughly before resetting it. When they get zapped the little critters "piddle" on the metal plate and pretty soon their buddies get the picture. Yes, they are incredibly smart. One time I was using the Decon stuff in a house. I kept noticing that the amount of bait in the trap was diminishing and so I thought I was making progress. A few days later I went to put on a pair of shoes that had been in a nearby closet and found all of the bait in a toe of the shoe. Not only are they smart, they are vindictive! The reason I have had so much experience with mice and pack rats is that we have a ranch in Kansas. We only use the house and barns there two months of the year (the critters use it all 12 months!). When we arrive we spend the first week getting rid of the rodents. Fortunately we only have mice in the house and the rats take up residence in the barns. From tputland at charter.net Tue Mar 16 04:07:10 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 4:07:10 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <20100315225546.GD7175@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <20100316070711.309JY.3052352.root@mp19> Use crunchy peanut butter and force chunks a peanut into the curl on the bait holder. Like Eric said, you have to make them work for it. In the past I have noticed that the traps have been cleaned out and not sprung. It turned out to be small juvenile mice that were too small to set off the trap. Wedging peanut chunks into the bait holder solved that. Tim ---- Eric Murray wrote: ============= On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 03:31:32PM -0700, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > We've gone with the peanut butter route, but no luck. What's "no luck"? Traps snapped but no critter, or bait eaten but trap not snaped, or trap untouched? For 1, the traps not in the right place, or you have the wrong size critter for your trap. (a mouse trap doesn't kill a rat it just gives him a wedgie) For #2, the trigger or bail is rusty or dirty. Easier to just get a new one. Or you didn't stick the PB down inside the "tube" in the trigger. You need to make them work for it. For #3, the trap is in the wrong place. Or the critters prefer organic and you gave them Jif. I've used organic recently but when I trapped mice for field studies (using modified snap traps taped to PVC pipes to capture but not kill) we used commercial PB with success. Eric _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From tputland at charter.net Tue Mar 16 04:57:26 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 4:57:26 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] getting rid of rabbits? Message-ID: <20100316075726.UMSGF.3053663.root@mp19> While we still had snow on the ground this winter, I noticed that the rabbits were eating on a row of 3 to 4 ft tall arbor vitae in my front yard. Is there a way to keep rabbits out of my yard? Next year I will most likely put up a chicken wire fennce of some sort, but I would like to keep the damn things out of my yard, period. Any advice is appreciated. (shooting them is not an option by the way.) Tim From rolds at plausa.com Tue Mar 16 05:02:57 2010 From: rolds at plausa.com (Ron Olds) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:02:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C79703FFD8EE@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> References: <325D3762-5908-4A17-A13C-5BD4349D27A0@groupwbench.org><4B9C6ADE.6050500@xxiii.com><73490.2743.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C79703FFD8EE@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Message-ID: Tim, We use a similar device at work and it also keeps roosting birds clear of the area including pigeons. Ronald Olds Sales Manager Plasser American Corporation PO Box 5464 2001 Myers Road Chesapeake, VA 23324-0464 Phone (757) 543-3526 Cell (630) 240-0818 Fax (757) 494-7186 The information contained in this e-mail including any attachments may be proprietary, privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the use of the addressee. Any unauthorized distribution, disclosure or any other such use is strictly prohibited. Furthermore, any reviews, semination or copying by anyone other than the intended recipient is expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and destroy all copies of the original transmittal. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mullen, Tim (IS) Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:37 PM To: shoptalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Bird in shop Speaking (well typing) of birds in the wrong places... Over the weekend, I was in my local Wal-Mart - we went in through the garden area (the semi-covered area where they put the grills, and outdoor "stuff"). I noticed a screeching/squawking sound that came from various areas. Looking closer, I noticed small green speakers around the roof areas, and the system made the screeching/squawking sounds "appear" to move around the area. Thinking about it, I realiesed that it was predators sounds (i.e. hawks), and it was all a system to scare away the sparrows that would usually inhabit such an area. There were no sparrows in the area so it must work. Tim Mullen _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rolds at plausa.com From pethier at comcast.net Tue Mar 16 07:14:13 2010 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:14:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation In-Reply-To: <1537382972.2454411268748708620.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1520530655.2455181268748853911.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Sticky traps have the advantage of not harming children or pets that bumble into your area. I have one stuck on the inside fender of my enclosed trailer. I was delivering a Miata that I sold, and while removing the tiedowns, I stepped on a trap without noticing. My boot dragged the trap and the sticky side plastered up against the side of the fender box. I will have to go back with a rag and grab on the protruding part and see if I can peel it off. It's really stuck. I may have to use some alcohol or something to clean the fender. Good news. No pests in the trailer. In my shop, I have not caught any rodents, but wandering bugs have ended their lives in the stickies. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UB "uncle jack" 1979 Caterham 7 2004 Suburban 8.1 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org http://www.mnautox.com From ericm at lne.com Tue Mar 16 10:33:45 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:33:45 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] getting rid of rabbits? In-Reply-To: <20100316075726.UMSGF.3053663.root@mp19> References: <20100316075726.UMSGF.3053663.root@mp19> Message-ID: <20100316173345.GA23841@slack.lne.com> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 04:57:26AM -0700, Tim wrote: > While we still had snow on the ground this winter, I noticed that the rabbits were eating on a row of 3 to 4 ft tall arbor vitae in my front yard. > > Is there a way to keep rabbits out of my yard? Next year I will most likely put up a chicken wire fennce of some sort, but I would like to keep the damn things out of my yard, period. A dog, or a really tough agressive cat, will keep them down but not completely out. Our indoor/outdoor cat was eating a fair number of bunnies for a while- that's her favorite food- but even in her prime she could only get the smaller ones. Barring that, fencing is the only way. Chicken wire 2' high and really well down to the ground works. We had to rabbit proof our garden with chicken wire along the bottom of the deer fence. Even the cat couldn't keep them completly out. Which isn't suprising- they do fine even with a large number of bobcats and coyotes around. I suppose that trapping and relocating them would work, but it wouldn't get all of them, and it would take up time that could go to fencing. Eric From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Mar 16 10:48:18 2010 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Rats and Mice In-Reply-To: <8CC92D0ABAB0F58-2B40-4EF5@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CC92D0ABAB0F58-2B40-4EF5@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: After reading these latest threads, I'm stopping at the pet store on my home and buying some treats for my cat. He kills and eats; mice, birds, chipmunks, rabbits, and almost anything else you can think of. Haven't seen a mouse in ten years, even though the house had 'em pre-cat. He keeps the rabbits out of my neighbor's garden, and has killed every chipmunk for at least a 1/4 mile in every direction. I can even live with him leaving me head-less bodies under the racecar in the garage. Rabbit brains are apparently a delicacy. Good cat. -- David Hillman From mikey at b2systems.com Tue Mar 16 11:08:08 2010 From: mikey at b2systems.com (mike rambour) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:08:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Rats and Mice In-Reply-To: References: <8CC92D0ABAB0F58-2B40-4EF5@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1268762888.7217.2.camel@WebBrowser> How much to rent him for a few weeks ? and does he do anything about gophers ? I don't have a mice problem but there is a friggin gopher that is causing me to turn into Bill Murray in Caddyshack. mike On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 13:48 -0400, David Hillman wrote: > After reading these latest threads, I'm stopping at the pet store on my > home and buying some treats for my cat. He kills and eats; mice, birds, > chipmunks, rabbits, and almost anything else you can think of. Haven't > seen a mouse in ten years, even though the house had 'em pre-cat. He > keeps the rabbits out of my neighbor's garden, and has killed every > chipmunk for at least a 1/4 mile in every direction. I can even live > with him leaving me head-less bodies under the racecar in the garage. > Rabbit brains are apparently a delicacy. > > Good cat. > > -- > David Hillman From ericm at lne.com Tue Mar 16 11:30:20 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:30:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Gophers In-Reply-To: <1268762888.7217.2.camel@WebBrowser> References: <8CC92D0ABAB0F58-2B40-4EF5@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> <1268762888.7217.2.camel@WebBrowser> Message-ID: <20100316183020.GB23841@slack.lne.com> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 11:08:08AM -0700, mike rambour wrote: > How much to rent him for a few weeks ? and does he do anything about > gophers ? I don't have a mice problem but there is a friggin gopher > that is causing me to turn into Bill Murray in Caddyshack. Some time ago on this list I asked if it would be a good idea to use a harbor freight oxy-acetlyne torch setup as a cheap Rodex 4000 http://www.rodexindustries.com/4000.html I live the idea of using fire (Beavis: FIRE! FIRE!) but it's not a good idea during fire season. My cat's acquired a taste for gopher. The first one she caught and brought up on the porch to play with. Worried that she'd get bored and let it escape, I went out and whacked it with a stick. I got such a dirty look from the cat. Pathetic human. But after that she decided to eat them. You can bet that she gets lavish praise when she does. An even better way is cinch traps http://store.gopherslimited.com/ They work really well on our small California gophers and moles. You have to be on the ball so you can place the trap in a burrow that's currently being used, but if you do it right you'll get them. I have tried everything else- smoke bombs, poison, other traps, chewing gum, chemical warefare using bleach and lye, and nothing works like the cinch traps. Eric From marka at maracing.com Tue Mar 16 11:42:19 2010 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] getting rid of rabbits? In-Reply-To: <20100316173345.GA23841@slack.lne.com> References: <20100316075726.UMSGF.3053663.root@mp19> <20100316173345.GA23841@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: Howdy, What's wrong with a shotgun and bunny stew? Mark On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Eric Murray wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 04:57:26AM -0700, Tim wrote: >> While we still had snow on the ground this winter, I noticed that the rabbits were eating on a row of 3 to 4 ft tall arbor vitae in my front yard. >> >> Is there a way to keep rabbits out of my yard? Next year I will most likely put up a chicken wire fennce of some sort, but I would like to keep the damn things out of my yard, period. > > > A dog, or a really tough agressive cat, will keep them down but > not completely out. Our indoor/outdoor cat was eating a fair number > of bunnies for a while- that's her favorite food- but even in her prime > she could only get the smaller ones. > > Barring that, fencing is the only way. Chicken wire 2' high and really > well down to the ground works. We had to rabbit proof our garden with > chicken wire along the bottom of the deer fence. Even > the cat couldn't keep them completly out. Which isn't suprising- they do fine > even with a large number of bobcats and coyotes around. > > I suppose that trapping and relocating them would work, but it > wouldn't get all of them, and it would take up time > that could go to fencing. > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka at maracing.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Tue Mar 16 11:56:54 2010 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Rats and Mice In-Reply-To: <1268762888.7217.2.camel@WebBrowser> References: <8CC92D0ABAB0F58-2B40-4EF5@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> <1268762888.7217.2.camel@WebBrowser> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, mike rambour wrote: > How much to rent him for a few weeks ? and does he do anything about > gophers ? I don't have a mice problem but there is a friggin gopher > that is causing me to turn into Bill Murray in Caddyshack. I think his rental days are past, he's 15 years old now. He still gets around good enough to prevent any critter re-invasions, but I don't think he's interested in waging a full-scale campaign. Plus which, he's so innocent-looking, no one would believe how dangerous he is to the wide part of the food pyramid. http://planet-torque.com/animals/ours/supercat.jpg -- David Hillman From pat at hornesystemstx.com Tue Mar 16 12:14:41 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:14:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Gophers In-Reply-To: <20100316183020.GB23841@slack.lne.com> References: <8CC92D0ABAB0F58-2B40-4EF5@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com> <1268762888.7217.2.camel@WebBrowser> <20100316183020.GB23841@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <4B9FD8A1.5080701@hornesystemstx.com> Even if it doesn't work, it sounds like something we'd have fun using! When I was a kid, back in the 50's my father bought some "gopher bombs" They looked like votive candles wrapped in paper. Unwrapping one found that they contained a length of old celluloid 35mm film and a wick. Celluloid film is highly flammable and puts out deadly fumes when burned, filling the burrows with smoke. You lit them, put them in a hole and closed the hole. When you saw smoke coming up, you closed that hole and kept going until there was no more smoke. It took care of our moles. I doubt you can find celluloid film any more. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Eric Murray, On 3/16/2010 1:30 PM: > Some time ago on this list I asked if it would be a good idea > to use a harbor freight oxy-acetlyne torch setup as a cheap > Rodex 4000 > > http://www.rodexindustries.com/4000.html > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From ericm at lne.com Tue Mar 16 12:18:05 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:18:05 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] getting rid of rabbits? In-Reply-To: References: <20100316075726.UMSGF.3053663.root@mp19> <20100316173345.GA23841@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <20100316191805.GC23841@slack.lne.com> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 02:42:19PM -0400, Mark Andy wrote: > What's wrong with a shotgun and bunny stew? 1. Shooting is illegal in my county. The problems of being in a rural part of a larely non-rural (at least by population) county. 2. I'm vegetarian, so it'd have to go to the wife or the cat. 3. picking out pellets (esp. if it goes to the cat). 4. garden is next to the chicken coop. 5. Tularemeia Eric From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Tue Mar 16 13:48:18 2010 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:48:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] One more mouse story.... Message-ID: <202BA668CA2940D1B562C45848E5550C@Digilink1> OK, I've got one more story about how frustrating dealing with these little rodents can be. When we first started going to the ranch in Kansas in the summer we noticed that we had mice in the car. I was smart enough to not try bait so I got a glue trap and put it in the trunk. The next day I opened the trunk and found tracks and a few tufts of fur on the glue pad but no mouse. The hot summer day had made the glue very soft and the mouse just struggle off of it. I was sort of disgusted so I just threw the glue pad away. Later that day I was driving down a dusty road. As I drove along the road little dusty foot prints started appearing all over my dash. By the time I got to my destination I had a complete record of the little *%$#@ journey over my dash. This was when I decided to shell out the big bucks for a Rat Zapper. I got him and his girl friend over the next two nights. From jibjib at att.net Tue Mar 16 18:16:57 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:16:57 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] getting rid of rabbits? In-Reply-To: <20100316075726.UMSGF.3053663.root@mp19> References: <20100316075726.UMSGF.3053663.root@mp19> Message-ID: While living in Lancaster, PA, I had a next-door neighbor that used to leave bubble gum out for the rabbits. He claimed they would eat it, but could not pass it. This is a bit too cruel for me, but we did not have rabbits around like some of the other neighbors. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:57 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] getting rid of rabbits? While we still had snow on the ground this winter, I noticed that the rabbits were eating on a row of 3 to 4 ft tall arbor vitae in my front yard. Is there a way to keep rabbits out of my yard? Next year I will most likely put up a chicken wire fennce of some sort, but I would like to keep the damn things out of my yard, period. Any advice is appreciated. (shooting them is not an option by the way.) Tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jibjib at att.net From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 16 20:52:48 2010 From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] BCS 725 tiller Message-ID: <256503.65081.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just bought a used BCS 725 rototiller and am having a problem switching from the sickle bar to the roto tiller. I can not figure out how to reposition the PTO engaging handle/shaft. I have looked for a picture on the internet but have been unsuccessful. Does anyone know a good source for an operator/service manual? Thanks for the help. Frank V. rustymetal at sbcglobal.net From shop at justbrits.com Wed Mar 17 11:06:27 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:06:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] BCS 725 tiller In-Reply-To: <256503.65081.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <256503.65081.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BA11A23.6080101@justbrits.com> << BCS 725 rototiller >> Do a Google search IN quotes, Frank. Should be rewarding !! Ed From jniolon at bham.rr.com Wed Mar 17 18:16:28 2010 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:16:28 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] WILD NA-1 LEVEL Message-ID: <27BA0934C409435BB740367B432B63AB@john5043a2d406> Just bought myself a Wild NA-1 autoleveling level... but no book or instructions on checking the instrument for accuracy... anyone out there help me out ??? thanks John I've learned in life that my primary goal is to serve as a bad example From jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 17 18:33:04 2010 From: jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net (John) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:33:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] WILD NA-1 LEVEL In-Reply-To: <27BA0934C409435BB740367B432B63AB@john5043a2d406> References: <27BA0934C409435BB740367B432B63AB@john5043a2d406> Message-ID: John, I don't have one, but look at http://www.niagara.com/~bboese/CD-Sales/Wild-NA1.html John -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John Niolon Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:16 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] WILD NA-1 LEVEL Just bought myself a Wild NA-1 autoleveling level... but no book or instructions on checking the instrument for accuracy... anyone out there help me out ??? thanks John I've learned in life that my primary goal is to serve as a bad example _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net From rs1121 at earthlink.net Thu Mar 18 09:23:46 2010 From: rs1121 at earthlink.net (Ron Schmittou) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:23:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] sign install project In-Reply-To: <20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC> <20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <061d01cac6b7$62a3feb0$27ebfc10$@net> Hey - hope this doesn't violate list rules but we just picked up a silly project that requires a lighted sign to be hung inside the window of a store. We have about half the areas covered with our own people but look at the list below and if there is not a name there, and you are in that area, and would be interested in picking up some fast pocket money to use your shop tools let me know. Only would require a cordless drill, level and tape measure and hand tools - you would screw two self tappers into the top aluminum window frame attach the cables to the sign (weighs about 10 pounds) make sure it is centered and at the right height, plug it in, zip tie the power cord so it looks nice, snap a couple of pictures and get a signature then on to the next site. Probably take 15 - 30 mins max per site. Multiple sites per area. We will pay $75 a site. All sites have to be complete by end of april - any takers? Anchorage, AL Boston, MA Richmond, VA Pittsburgh, PA OKC, Ok Jessie Tulsa, Ok Nick Rochester, NY Lexington, KY Honolulu, HI Philadelphia, PA Birmingham, AL Zach Pensacola, FL Drew Shreveport, LA Matt Dallas, TX Richard Houston, TX Dan San Antonio, TX Austin Albuquerque, NM Phoenix, AZ Las Vegas, NV Sacramento, CA Los Angeles, CA Portland, OR Seattle, WA Salt Lake City, UT Denver, CO Aaron Minneapolis, MN Omaha, NE Peter Kansas City, MO Peter St. Louis, MO Kenny Little Rock, AR Billy Orlando, FL Gabe Miami, FL Gabe Atlanta, GA Charlotte, NC Knoxville, TN Troy Thanks Ron Schmittou Ron_S at agps.us Anna Office (972) 369-8640 Ext 210 Auto Fwd (469) 844-5482 Cell (214) 862-1871 From tputland at charter.net Thu Mar 18 10:30:03 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:30:03 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] sign install project In-Reply-To: <061d01cac6b7$62a3feb0$27ebfc10$@net> Message-ID: <20100318133003.5M07F.3193345.root@mp06> I'll do the Honolulu sign for you if you fly me out there. ;-) If you need something in the Madison, WI area, let me know. Tim ---- Ron Schmittou wrote: ============= Hey - hope this doesn't violate list rules but we just picked up a silly project that requires a lighted sign to be hung inside the window of a store. We have about half the areas covered with our own people but look at the list below and if there is not a name there, and you are in that area, and would be interested in picking up some fast pocket money to use your shop tools let me know. Only would require a cordless drill, level and tape measure and hand tools - you would screw two self tappers into the top aluminum window frame attach the cables to the sign (weighs about 10 pounds) make sure it is centered and at the right height, plug it in, zip tie the power cord so it looks nice, snap a couple of pictures and get a signature then on to the next site. Probably take 15 - 30 mins max per site. Multiple sites per area. We will pay $75 a site. All sites have to be complete by end of april - any takers? Anchorage, AL Boston, MA Richmond, VA Pittsburgh, PA OKC, Ok Jessie Tulsa, Ok Nick Rochester, NY Lexington, KY Honolulu, HI Philadelphia, PA Birmingham, AL Zach Pensacola, FL Drew Shreveport, LA Matt Dallas, TX Richard Houston, TX Dan San Antonio, TX Austin Albuquerque, NM Phoenix, AZ Las Vegas, NV Sacramento, CA Los Angeles, CA Portland, OR Seattle, WA Salt Lake City, UT Denver, CO Aaron Minneapolis, MN Omaha, NE Peter Kansas City, MO Peter St. Louis, MO Kenny Little Rock, AR Billy Orlando, FL Gabe Miami, FL Gabe Atlanta, GA Charlotte, NC Knoxville, TN Troy Thanks Ron Schmittou Ron_S at agps.us Anna Office (972) 369-8640 Ext 210 Auto Fwd (469) 844-5482 Cell (214) 862-1871 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From mg_garage at comcast.net Thu Mar 18 13:27:30 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:27:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] sign install project References: <6DD2AD1D7A9F49AA85F6DE75CBF2699B@DesktopPC><20100315222101.GC7175@slack.lne.com> <061d01cac6b7$62a3feb0$27ebfc10$@net> Message-ID: Sheesh, no one wants anything in Michigan anymore, and here I am unemployed! Hmmm. Lexington is not too far away. How much did you say it paid? Gordie > Hey - hope this doesn't violate list rules but we just picked up a silly > project that requires a lighted sign to be hung inside the window of a > store. We have about half the areas covered with our own people but look > at > the list below and if there is not a name there, and you are in that area, > and would be interested in picking up some fast pocket money to use your > shop tools let me know. Only would require a cordless drill, level and > tape > measure and hand tools - you would screw two self tappers into the top > aluminum window frame attach the cables to the sign (weighs about 10 > pounds) > make sure it is centered and at the right height, plug it in, zip tie the > power cord so it looks nice, snap a couple of pictures and get a signature > then on to the next site. Probably take 15 - 30 mins max per site. > Multiple > sites per area. We will pay $75 a site. > > All sites have to be complete by end of april - any takers? > > Anchorage, AL > Boston, MA > Richmond, VA > Pittsburgh, PA > OKC, Ok Jessie > Tulsa, Ok Nick > Rochester, NY > Lexington, KY > Honolulu, HI > Philadelphia, PA > Birmingham, AL Zach > Pensacola, FL Drew > Shreveport, LA Matt > Dallas, TX Richard > Houston, TX Dan > San Antonio, TX Austin > Albuquerque, NM > Phoenix, AZ > Las Vegas, NV > Sacramento, CA > Los Angeles, CA > Portland, OR > Seattle, WA > Salt Lake City, UT > Denver, CO Aaron > Minneapolis, MN > Omaha, NE Peter > Kansas City, MO Peter > St. Louis, MO Kenny > Little Rock, AR Billy > Orlando, FL Gabe > Miami, FL Gabe > Atlanta, GA > Charlotte, NC > Knoxville, TN Troy > > Thanks > > Ron Schmittou > Ron_S at agps.us > > Anna Office (972) 369-8640 Ext 210 > Auto Fwd (469) 844-5482 > Cell (214) 862-1871 > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mg_garage at comcast.net > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4955 (20100318) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com From eric at megageek.com Thu Mar 18 20:34:56 2010 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:04:56 +0430 Subject: [Shop-talk] sign install project In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gordie writes... >Sheesh, no one wants anything in Michigan anymore, and here I am unemployed! >Hmmm. Lexington is not too far away. How much did you say it paid? Tell me about it. They don't even want one in Kabul, Afghanistan! I could get one up for a fraction of that price! Maybe just 2500 AFS! 8>) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From bobkegel at comcast.net Fri Mar 19 00:21:34 2010 From: bobkegel at comcast.net (Bob Kegel) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:21:34 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Gophers In-Reply-To: <4B9FD8A1.5080701@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <000001cac734$cf7e53f0$0301a8c0@MIKE> > I doubt you can find celluloid film any more. And that's good. Nitrate film is really nasty stuff. I found some in an abandoned theater and, having heard the stories, touched a match to a piece. It burned in a flash, like gunpowder. The stuff was responsible for numerous theater fires. The projection room where I found my sample was lined with sheet metal. The windows for the projectors had guillotine shutters with fusible links. Bob K From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri Mar 19 01:38:26 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:38:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Gophers In-Reply-To: <000001cac734$cf7e53f0$0301a8c0@MIKE> References: <000001cac734$cf7e53f0$0301a8c0@MIKE> Message-ID: <4BA33802.9090102@hornesystemstx.com> Bob, Yup, I worked in one of those booths in the mid to late 60s at Thule AFB Greenland. At the door was a pull handle that you pulled on the way out if there was a fire that released the shutters on all windows and cut power to the whole room. We were told that this was one of only a few booths where nitrate film could be shown still left in Air Force theaters. I never showed any nitrate film, but if some came in, we were ready for it! Peace, Pat Thusly spake Bob Kegel, On 3/19/2010 2:21 AM: >> I doubt you can find celluloid film any more. >> > > And that's good. Nitrate film is really nasty stuff. I found some in an > abandoned theater and, having heard the stories, touched a match to a > piece. It burned in a flash, like gunpowder. > > The stuff was responsible for numerous theater fires. The projection > room where I found my sample was lined with sheet metal. The windows for > the projectors had guillotine shutters with fusible links. > > Bob K > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From lane495 at nctc.com Fri Mar 19 05:15:04 2010 From: lane495 at nctc.com (Patricia Lane) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 07:15:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Mice infestation References: <5dff6e49233da9732156218186393f07@www.avvantamail.com> Message-ID: <32438FD6D7D04D0ABE784B6E734C7CE1@osiris> I have to put in my .02. My "hay hauler" is kept in the "girls garage". This upsets my husband, as his truck is kept outside. For some reason the mice decided to come inside the garage and inhabit my truck. The nerve. His truck is mouse-free. Insert his evil laugh here. My husband decided (I personally think it was payback) to put mouse poison inside the cab. He didn't tell me. I get in the truck one day to get rolled hay and the truck smells like a cow has died under the seat. God, it was awful. I investigated and found that a very large mouse had tried to escape, apparently the way he entered. I have a 1" hole drilled on the metal edge behind the truck seat. This is where my hay lift wires come into the cab. He was wedged into that hole tighter than . . insert your own euphesmism here. Let's just say *I* didn't remove his body. I started using mouse traps with peanut butter, checking daily, and removed everything from inside the truck that could be used as mouse fodder. The mission was successful, however, they decided that they now liked the Nova sitting outside next to the house. Same mission, however this time, they moved on to my husband's car. Amazing how the end of the world is near when a mouse moves into his glovebox. :o) Patricia From pethier at comcast.net Fri Mar 19 06:35:11 2010 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:35:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Gophers In-Reply-To: <4BA33802.9090102@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <1753391390.3797931269005711336.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Indeed. It was illegal in the USA to transport movie film interstate without a federal license. Meanwhile, in England, Alfred Hitchcock put out a B&W movie with a special color effect added that made it look like a piece of film was caught in the gate and catching fire. There was a special notice attached to each film can explaining the effect to the projectionist. The film was a commercial failure because it never got shown properly. Despite the notice, the projectionist would panic when the effect started and flee the booth, pulling that handle on the way out. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UB "uncle jack" 1979 Caterham 7 2004 Suburban 8.1 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org http://www.mnautox.com ----- "Pat Horne" wrote: > Bob, > > Yup, I worked in one of those booths in the mid to late 60s at Thule > AFB > Greenland. At the door was a pull handle that you pulled on the way > out > if there was a fire that released the shutters on all windows and cut > power to the whole room. We were told that this was one of only a few > booths where nitrate film could be shown still left in Air Force > theaters. I never showed any nitrate film, but if some came in, we > were > ready for it! > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake Bob Kegel, On 3/19/2010 2:21 AM: > >> I doubt you can find celluloid film any more. > >> > > > > And that's good. Nitrate film is really nasty stuff. I found some in > an > > abandoned theater and, having heard the stories, touched a match to > a > > piece. It burned in a flash, like gunpowder. > > > > The stuff was responsible for numerous theater fires. The > projection > > room where I found my sample was lined with sheet metal. The windows > for > > the projectors had guillotine shutters with fusible links. > > > > Bob K From rs1121 at earthlink.net Fri Mar 19 08:22:01 2010 From: rs1121 at earthlink.net (Ron Schmittou) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:22:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Gophers In-Reply-To: <4BA33802.9090102@hornesystemstx.com> References: <000001cac734$cf7e53f0$0301a8c0@MIKE> <4BA33802.9090102@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <07a601cac777$fb7ba320$f272e960$@net> Gee - now I want some to play with! C-Ya Ron -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Pat Horne Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 3:38 AM To: Bob Kegel Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Gophers Bob, Yup, I worked in one of those booths in the mid to late 60s at Thule AFB Greenland. At the door was a pull handle that you pulled on the way out if there was a fire that released the shutters on all windows and cut power to the whole room. We were told that this was one of only a few booths where nitrate film could be shown still left in Air Force theaters. I never showed any nitrate film, but if some came in, we were ready for it! Peace, Pat Thusly spake Bob Kegel, On 3/19/2010 2:21 AM: >> I doubt you can find celluloid film any more. >> > > And that's good. Nitrate film is really nasty stuff. I found some in an > abandoned theater and, having heard the stories, touched a match to a > piece. It burned in a flash, like gunpowder. > > The stuff was responsible for numerous theater fires. The projection > room where I found my sample was lined with sheet metal. The windows for > the projectors had guillotine shutters with fusible links. > > Bob K From scott.hall at comcast.net Sun Mar 21 04:39:59 2010 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:39:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers In-Reply-To: <1664071982.6612011269171335738.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <67629811.6612431269171599635.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> This should be simple, I'd think. The power went out last week at the house. I pulled the cord on the opener to release it from the carriage on the track. Now I can't get it to re-engage. I'm starting to worry myself a little but--I can rebuild an engine, but I can't swap the face shields on my Arai, and I can't re-engage a garage door. From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sun Mar 21 04:56:13 2010 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:56:13 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers Message-ID: Scott, You probably will need to run the opener a few inches down the track with the motor, stop it, and then re-engage the pin there. At the stop there generally is some "interference fit" issues. I had the same problem. ------Original Message------ From: scott.hall at comcast.net Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers Sent: Mar 21, 2010 8:39 AM This should be simple, I'd think. The power went out last week at the house. I pulled the cord on the opener to release it from the carriage on the track. Now I can't get it to re-engage. I'm starting to worry myself a little but--I can rebuild an engine, but I can't swap the face shields on my Arai, and I can't re-engage a garage door. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net best, Doug Shook (Blackberry) 323.286.6115 From arvidj at visi.com Sun Mar 21 05:23:32 2010 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:23:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers References: <67629811.6612431269171599635.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <76C7742E7D7545AFAEEAC3104E30BAC7@behavioral.com> On the Craftsman openers that I have had for the past 25 years all I ever did was cycle the opener so the motor driven part would "run over" the door attached part and they would hook back up. The only think I can think that would prevent this from working correctly is if the latch on the door attached part that you pulled down to release the two pieces was gummed up so the spring would not allow the latch to work - i.e. it was in the "pulled the rope position" more or less permanently. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:39 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers > This should be simple, I'd think. The power went out last week at the > house. I pulled the cord on the opener to release it from the carriage on > the track. Now I can't get it to re-engage. > > I'm starting to worry myself a little but--I can rebuild an engine, but I > can't swap the face shields on my Arai, and I can't re-engage a garage > door. From doug at dougbraun.com Sun Mar 21 06:50:26 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Battery Hack Message-ID: <352962.30528.qm@web601.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This had me howling with laughter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_8n2Qgguto Doug From nogera2 at att.net Sun Mar 21 08:28:29 2010 From: nogera2 at att.net (nogera2 at att.net) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:28:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Porch skirt Message-ID: <25063A0AEDC64BCD9E6B4D6E224C44CB@CARROOM> I need to build a small entry porch. It will be built using pressure treated wood and sit on a concrete slab. I'd like it to integrate with the building as much as possible so I'd like to skirt of the porch to match the concrete foundation of the building. My thought is to use concrete backer board ( as used in shower construction) and to skim coat it with cement. Anyone see a problem with using it? If not what would be the product to skim it with, stucco, thinset, mortar? Also would I need to " tape" over the screws and seams as in drywall before skimming? Thanks in advance for any thoughts Bob From nogera2 at att.net Sun Mar 21 08:47:16 2010 From: nogera2 at att.net (Robert Nogueira) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:47:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers In-Reply-To: <76C7742E7D7545AFAEEAC3104E30BAC7@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <7798D13CF0ED41AEA5C8C1EAEB959984@CARROOM> Those carriages have a 'locked open' position which is engages by pulling down and back on the core. To engage pull down and forward run the door a cycle and it will lock on to the trolley. Bob > > > > This should be simple, I'd think. The power went out last > week at the > > house. I pulled the cord on the opener to release it from > the carriage on > > the track. Now I can't get it to re-engage. > > > > I'm starting to worry myself a little but--I can rebuild an engine, > > but I > > can't swap the face shields on my Arai, and I can't > re-engage a garage > > door. > _______________________________________________ From Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM Sun Mar 21 09:14:40 2010 From: Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM (Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:14:40 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Porch skirt Message-ID: <20100321091440.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.2ce69dd3e6.wbe@email.secureserver.net> /3Rlh9D: Permission denied From scott.hall at comcast.net Sun Mar 21 14:34:48 2010 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers In-Reply-To: <7798D13CF0ED41AEA5C8C1EAEB959984@CARROOM> Message-ID: <482690008.6756401269207288631.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I'll try that--I've been cycling the opener--the 'carriage' (the part attached to the chain on the track) just goes through the 'trolley' (the part attached, ultimately, to the door). It's like it's locked 'open', but for the life of me I can't figure out how to get it to 'close'. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Nogueira" To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:47:16 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers Those carriages have a 'locked open' position which is engages by pulling down and back on the core. To engage pull down and forward run the door a cycle and it will lock on to the trolley. Bob From Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM Sun Mar 21 14:47:32 2010 From: Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM (Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:47:32 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers Message-ID: <20100321144732.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.8d84751feb.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Try pushing up on the arm the pull rope is attached to. I've seen a couple that locked open until you push it back up. Peace, Pat -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers From: scott.hall at comcast.net Date: Sun, March 21, 2010 2:34 pm To: shop-talk at autox.team.net I'll try that--I've been cycling the opener--the 'carriage' (the part attached to the chain on the track) just goes through the 'trolley' (the part attached, ultimately, to the door). It's like it's locked 'open', but for the life of me I can't figure out how to get it to 'close'. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Nogueira" To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:47:16 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers Those carriages have a 'locked open' position which is engages by pulling down and back on the core. To engage pull down and forward run the door a cycle and it will lock on to the trolley. Bob _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com From eltonclark at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 15:51:38 2010 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:51:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Craftsman garage door openers In-Reply-To: <20100321144732.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.8d84751feb.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20100321144732.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.8d84751feb.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: *My screw-type opener requires exactly what Pat suggests,* *Tony* On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 4:47 PM, wrote: > Try pushing up on the arm the pull rope is attached to. I've seen a > couple that locked open until you push it back up. > > Peace, > Pat From fortee9er at yahoo.com Sun Mar 21 20:17:37 2010 From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Inductive timing light Message-ID: <637897.33942.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am considering buying a new timing light and was remembering a Snap On timing light a saw many years ago that had an LED display and an adjustting knob to set advance. I guess by now those features are available on reasonably priced lights can the group give me suggestions for a timing light that can be used on LBCs or something more modern. Thanks Jorge Garcia 1965 BJ8 From bspidell at comcast.net Sun Mar 21 20:55:47 2010 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:55:47 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Inductive timing light In-Reply-To: <637897.33942.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <637897.33942.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BA6EA43.3090507@comcast.net> Maybe worth a shot: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40963 I haven't used one of these. It looks like the case is plastic, which is good for a positive ground car since the metal ones usually are grounded; i.e. the case is negative which causes shorts if you touch chassis metal. bs Jorge Garcia wrote: > I am considering buying a new timing light and was remembering a Snap On timing light a saw many years ago that had an LED display and an adjustting knob to set advance. I guess by now those features are available on reasonably priced lights can the group give me suggestions for a timing light that can be used on LBCs or something more modern. > Thanks > Jorge Garcia > 1965 BJ8 > _______________________________________________ > > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From mark at bradakis.com Sun Mar 21 21:05:34 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:05:34 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Inductive timing light In-Reply-To: <637897.33942.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <637897.33942.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BA6EC8E.6050609@bradakis.com> Back when I was working at Bailey's, Mike had a really nice, modern electronic timing light/tach combination. It was from Mac tools, I don't recall the model. I do, however, recall finally digging out my old analog Craftsman light from way back. A fair number of old cars of various makes had so much electrical noise in their ignition systems the modern light would go berzerk and give really strange results. My trusty old Craftsman with the advance knob on the barrel, from the same era as some of these older cars, worked perfectly. mjb. From mbarre at juno.com Sun Mar 21 21:46:57 2010 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:46:57 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] (shop) rebuilding battery packs Message-ID: <20100322.004657.17594.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> Someone sent out a pointer to an article on reworking batteries recently but I misplaced it... Can I get a resend please? Thanks! Matt ____________________________________________________________ Small Business Tools Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=XNryNv-fjYp22Z2bQlUsxwAAJ1Bdm0m GPxpgr-kLaQS4Hyu2AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARMQAAAAA= From roadster at astound.net Sun Mar 21 23:01:50 2010 From: roadster at astound.net (Fred Katz) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:01:50 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Car Battery Hack In-Reply-To: <352962.30528.qm@web601.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <352962.30528.qm@web601.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4893BBFA-7497-4A50-9FED-949C890CFF90@astound.net> Funny! Good joke. I am interested about a real car battery hack. Around 1998, I bought a Sears Die-Hard Security battery for my hobby car that I invested a lot of work and money. The Security battery came with a hand-held remote control. After parking my car, using the remote disables the battery from starting the car, while regular accessories continue to function. A couple years ago my remote died, and I later replaced the remote button-sized battery. However, the remote needs to be reprogrammed. The battery still functions although the security function won't work until the remote is programmed. I searched the Internet, tried calling Sears tech phone numbers, all without success. Does anyone on the list have any knowledge of the reprogramming sequence? I do know my code ID for the battery. Thanks, Fred - So.SF (new member as of last month) On Mar 21, 2010, at 6:50 AM, Doug Braun wrote: > This had me howling with laughter: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_8n2Qgguto > > Doug > _______________________________________________ From shop at justbrits.com Mon Mar 22 08:37:53 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:37:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] (shop) rebuilding battery packs In-Reply-To: <20100322.004657.17594.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> References: <20100322.004657.17594.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <4BA78ED1.70906@justbrits.com> << Someone sent out a pointer to an article on reworking batteries recently but I misplaced it... Can I get a resend please? >> Use the fourth [4th] line below the line at the bottom of EVERY List Post., Matt. Known as Archives !! That way you can just keep what you want and ignore the rest !! Ed From shop at justbrits.com Mon Mar 22 08:40:27 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:40:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Inductive timing light In-Reply-To: <4BA6EC8E.6050609@bradakis.com> References: <637897.33942.qm@web54507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4BA6EC8E.6050609@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4BA78F6B.4090306@justbrits.com> << My trusty old Craftsman with the advance knob on the barrel, from the same era as some of these older cars, worked perfectly. >> I use the exact same light, Mark. IIRC it was $29.95 at the time and was only $39.95 last time I looked !! Ed From ronnie.day at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 10:31:26 2010 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:31:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Auto Welding DVD Message-ID: <2faaebf81003231031v528f1c12t3a255cc552f2b642@mail.gmail.com> Some time ago I received a Hot Rod DVD entitled "Complete Bodywork & Sheetmetal Prep" as a freebie for a subscription This DVD is part of the "Dream-Build-Drives" series (http://tinyurl.com/yfedom2). I couple days ago I started watching it and am very impressed. This guy is disassembling a '60s Chevelle convertible for restoration and the techniques and methods he uses are applicable to any car and most metalwork and welding projects. The video quality is excellent and the "How to..." is very easy to see, understand and is thoroughly presented, something the DIY auto programs on Spike and Speed often rush. The DVD I have is 65003D, the first in the series. Highly recommended -- Ron From shop at justbrits.com Tue Mar 23 14:33:12 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:33:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] If you have NOT........ Message-ID: <4BA93398.7070107@justbrits.com> seen or read this, it's just UN-REAL !!!!! How A $500 Craigslist Car Beat $400K Rally Racers or *http://tinyurl.com/yf5dmyz * or http://jalopnik.com/5497042/how-a-500-craigslist-car-beat-400k-rally-racers From mark at nashvilletn.org Tue Mar 23 17:04:42 2010 From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:04:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford Roush P51B Engine NO LBC References: <2bde9.46bac99a.38daa01c@aol.com> Message-ID: <779AAC94A28C4B4A9550074D1357376B@Dell9200> I am looking at a 2009 Mustang that has a 510 HP Roush P51b engine installed by Roush. Anybody on the list sometimes go to the dark side and know anything good or bad about these cars. It is the fastest car I have ever driven and sure to give the local tuners a run for their money. Plus it could be a fun everyday driver. Keeping the Bugeye for sure just looking to add something for year arround fun. Mark Nashville From ejrussell at mebtel.net Tue Mar 23 17:31:46 2010 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:31:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford Roush P51B Engine NO LBC In-Reply-To: <779AAC94A28C4B4A9550074D1357376B@Dell9200> References: <2bde9.46bac99a.38daa01c@aol.com> <779AAC94A28C4B4A9550074D1357376B@Dell9200> Message-ID: <59CB61E5E9254203A7E6F4129720BFDE@EricJRussellPC> Sounds good to me. I have Exxon/Mobil stocks... Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" To: "Spridgets" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford Roush P51B Engine NO LBC >I am looking at a 2009 Mustang that has a 510 HP Roush P51b engine >installed > by Roush. Anybody on the list sometimes go to the dark side and know > anything good or bad about these cars. It is the fastest car I have ever > driven and sure to give the local tuners a run for their money. Plus it > could be a fun everyday driver. Keeping the Bugeye for sure just looking > to > add something for year arround fun. > > Mark > Nashville From bspidell at comcast.net Wed Mar 24 19:59:37 2010 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:59:37 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford Roush P51B Engine NO LBC In-Reply-To: <779AAC94A28C4B4A9550074D1357376B@Dell9200> References: <2bde9.46bac99a.38daa01c@aol.com> <779AAC94A28C4B4A9550074D1357376B@Dell9200> Message-ID: <4BAAD199.2030009@comcast.net> I have a 315HP Bullitt Mustang and it's a hoot. This car would be even hootier. One thing; you never know exactly what the rearend is going to do. Get the stickiest tires you can find. bs Mark wrote: > I am looking at a 2009 Mustang that has a 510 HP Roush P51b engine installed > by Roush. Anybody on the list sometimes go to the dark side and know > anything good or bad about these cars. It is the fastest car I have ever > driven and sure to give the local tuners a run for their money. Plus it > could be a fun everyday driver. Keeping the Bugeye for sure just looking to > add something for year arround fun. > > Mark > Nashville > _______________________________________________ > > -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From bk13 at earthlink.net Wed Mar 24 21:21:52 2010 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 21:21:52 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run Message-ID: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> List, Last week my Homelite 2 stroke string trimmer stopped running and I'm after recommendations for things to check to get it running again. It is a straight shaft, 15142-R, which I believe is a reconditioned ST1725SR. It is about 10 years old, but mostly worked well over the years. The same model sold at Home Depot and Lowes for $109 at the time. I definitely got my money's worth, so won't be heart-broken if I can't get it running again. I used the trimmer with the stock string head around the yard then installed a Shakespeare Heavy-Duty Brush Cutter (http://www.lowes.com/pd_79979-42694-14872_0) in place of the string since I needed to cut more than a few weeds going into the canyon. I do not recommend this cutter since you will be spending $8 for replacement blades any time you hit the ground or something heavier than a weed. I had new gas and mixed the oil as I've done for years. After about 10 minutes of use with the brush cutter, suddenly the trimmer lost power and stalled. I found I could go to full choke, pull the cord, then go the half choke and pull the cord and have it run normally for a few minutes. No choke and it died. Once I hit a heavy patch of brush, it would loose power and only idle. If I pulled the throttle it would stall. I repeated this several times, with a shorter run period each time till I couldn't make the engine run. Aside from the muffler area, the engine didn't feel all that hot when I got it back to the garage. The fuel hose was replaced a year ago and looks in good shape. The foam in the air cleaner was a bit dirty, so I cleaned it. The carb looked like new. The spark plug was fine. I cleaned the mesh spark arrester on the muffler exit as it was pretty dirty. I drained the fuel and looked at the in tank filter and it looked good. Pushing the primer bulb gives the normal behavior of getting firm after 6 pushes, so I don't think there is any fuel delivery problem. There are two adjustment screws on the carb, but since they have not been touched in 10 years, I wouldn't expect they moved. I learned from my Triumphs that you don't play with carbs if they were working. After this, I tried again with the stock string head back in place, but it would only idle at half choke. Turn off the choke and it died. Give it gas and it died. One of my thoughts is that the cutter head damaged the trimmer shaft. The brush cutter was a bit more rotational mass and quickly became a bit out of balance when the cutter blades became bent or bits of the plastic came off. Long thick grass also got wrapped up in the head and significantly loaded down the trimmer, requiring me to shut it off and clean out the grass. Will damage here cause the trimmer to stall when the throttle is pulled or the choke is in run position? Thanks for any advice, Brian From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Mar 25 06:40:36 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:40:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run In-Reply-To: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> References: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4BAB67D4.8080104@hornesystemstx.com> Brian, Here are a few things to check: Fuel filter. Don't rely on blowing through it, pour fuel through it, it should run right through. If there is a problem with the shaft you should feel resistance to turning the cutting head by hand. There is a centrifugal clutch between it an the engine. Try another (new container of fuel/oil, just in case something is wrong with what you have. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Brian Kemp, On 3/24/2010 11:21 PM: > List, > > I used the trimmer with the stock string head around the yard then > installed a Shakespeare Heavy-Duty Brush Cutter > (http://www.lowes.com/pd_79979-42694-14872_0) in place of the string > since I needed to cut more than a few weeds going into the canyon. I > do not recommend this cutter since you will be spending $8 for > replacement blades any time you hit the ground or something heavier > than a weed. > > I had new gas and mixed the oil as I've done for years. After about > 10 minutes of use with the brush cutter, suddenly the trimmer lost > power and stalled. I found I could go to full choke, pull the cord, > then go the half choke and pull the cord and have it run normally for > a few minutes. No choke and it died. Once I hit a heavy patch of > brush, it would loose power and only idle. If I pulled the throttle > it would stall. I repeated this several times, with a shorter run > period each time till I couldn't make the engine run. Aside from the > muffler area, the engine didn't feel all that hot when I got it back > to the garage. > > One of my thoughts is that the cutter head damaged the trimmer shaft. > The brush cutter was a bit more rotational mass and quickly became a > bit out of balance when the cutter blades became bent or bits of the > plastic came off. Long thick grass also got wrapped up in the head > and significantly loaded down the trimmer, requiring me to shut it off > and clean out the grass. Will damage here cause the trimmer to stall > when the throttle is pulled or the choke is in run position? > > Thanks for any advice, > > Brian > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From bjzwissler at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 08:08:59 2010 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Benjamin Zwissler) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:08:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run In-Reply-To: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> References: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <96e12661003250808x5ca502ddo3838bee1ed75bf1e@mail.gmail.com> Sounds to me like the diaphragm in your carb has torn. I've had this happen a few time ons 2-strokes about this age. The diaphragm acts as a fuel pump using the pressure pulses from the crankcase to pull fuel from the tank. A carb rebuild kit will include a new one. Ben..... On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Brian Kemp wrote: > List, > > Last week my Homelite 2 stroke string trimmer stopped running and I'm after > recommendations for things to check to get it running again. It is a > straight shaft, 15142-R, which I believe is a reconditioned ST1725SR. It is > about 10 years old, but mostly worked well over the years. The same model > sold at Home Depot and Lowes for $109 at the time. I definitely got my > money's worth, so won't be heart-broken if I can't get it running again. > I used the trimmer with the stock string head around the yard then > installed a Shakespeare Heavy-Duty Brush Cutter ( > http://www.lowes.com/pd_79979-42694-14872_0) in place of the string since > I needed to cut more than a few weeds going into the canyon. I do not > recommend this cutter since you will be spending $8 for replacement blades > any time you hit the ground or something heavier than a weed. > > I had new gas and mixed the oil as I've done for years. After about 10 > minutes of use with the brush cutter, suddenly the trimmer lost power and > stalled. I found I could go to full choke, pull the cord, then go the half > choke and pull the cord and have it run normally for a few minutes. No > choke and it died. Once I hit a heavy patch of brush, it would loose power > and only idle. If I pulled the throttle it would stall. I repeated this > several times, with a shorter run period each time till I couldn't make the > engine run. Aside from the muffler area, the engine didn't feel all that > hot when I got it back to the garage. > > The fuel hose was replaced a year ago and looks in good shape. The foam in > the air cleaner was a bit dirty, so I cleaned it. The carb looked like new. > The spark plug was fine. I cleaned the mesh spark arrester on the muffler > exit as it was pretty dirty. I drained the fuel and looked at the in tank > filter and it looked good. Pushing the primer bulb gives the normal > behavior of getting firm after 6 pushes, so I don't think there is any fuel > delivery problem. There are two adjustment screws on the carb, but since > they have not been touched in 10 years, I wouldn't expect they moved. I > learned from my Triumphs that you don't play with carbs if they were > working. > > After this, I tried again with the stock string head back in place, but it > would only idle at half choke. Turn off the choke and it died. Give it gas > and it died. > > One of my thoughts is that the cutter head damaged the trimmer shaft. The > brush cutter was a bit more rotational mass and quickly became a bit out of > balance when the cutter blades became bent or bits of the plastic came off. > Long thick grass also got wrapped up in the head and significantly loaded > down the trimmer, requiring me to shut it off and clean out the grass. Will > damage here cause the trimmer to stall when the throttle is pulled or the > choke is in run position? > > Thanks for any advice, > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler at gmail.com From bolin at mwt.net Thu Mar 25 08:45:01 2010 From: bolin at mwt.net (Bob Jeffers) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:45:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run In-Reply-To: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> References: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6E32A2AF46024FA7B98272CA123324F4@BobPC> I had a chain saw that did the same thing once and we took the muffler off and took the guts out and put it back on and it ran good. It was plugged solid. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kemp" To: "Shop-Talk List" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:21 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run > List, > > Last week my Homelite 2 stroke string trimmer stopped running and I'm > after recommendations for things to check to get it running again. It is > a straight shaft, 15142-R, which I believe is a reconditioned ST1725SR. > It is about 10 years old, but mostly worked well over the years. The same > model sold at Home Depot and Lowes for $109 at the time. I definitely got > my money's worth, so won't be heart-broken if I can't get it running > again. > I used the trimmer with the stock string head around the yard then > installed a Shakespeare Heavy-Duty Brush Cutter > (http://www.lowes.com/pd_79979-42694-14872_0) in place of the string since > I needed to cut more than a few weeds going into the canyon. I do not > recommend this cutter since you will be spending $8 for replacement blades > any time you hit the ground or something heavier than a weed. > > I had new gas and mixed the oil as I've done for years. After about 10 > minutes of use with the brush cutter, suddenly the trimmer lost power and > stalled. I found I could go to full choke, pull the cord, then go the > half choke and pull the cord and have it run normally for a few minutes. > No choke and it died. Once I hit a heavy patch of brush, it would loose > power and only idle. If I pulled the throttle it would stall. I repeated > this several times, with a shorter run period each time till I couldn't > make the engine run. Aside from the muffler area, the engine didn't feel > all that hot when I got it back to the garage. > > The fuel hose was replaced a year ago and looks in good shape. The foam > in the air cleaner was a bit dirty, so I cleaned it. The carb looked like > new. The spark plug was fine. I cleaned the mesh spark arrester on the > muffler exit as it was pretty dirty. I drained the fuel and looked at the > in tank filter and it looked good. Pushing the primer bulb gives the > normal behavior of getting firm after 6 pushes, so I don't think there is > any fuel delivery problem. There are two adjustment screws on the carb, > but since they have not been touched in 10 years, I wouldn't expect they > moved. I learned from my Triumphs that you don't play with carbs if they > were working. > > After this, I tried again with the stock string head back in place, but it > would only idle at half choke. Turn off the choke and it died. Give it > gas and it died. > > One of my thoughts is that the cutter head damaged the trimmer shaft. The > brush cutter was a bit more rotational mass and quickly became a bit out > of balance when the cutter blades became bent or bits of the plastic came > off. Long thick grass also got wrapped up in the head and significantly > loaded down the trimmer, requiring me to shut it off and clean out the > grass. Will damage here cause the trimmer to stall when the throttle is > pulled or the choke is in run position? > > Thanks for any advice, > > Brian > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bolin at mwt.net From ericm at lne.com Thu Mar 25 13:38:27 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 13:38:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run In-Reply-To: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> References: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20100325203827.GC14398@slack.lne.com> On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 09:21:52PM -0700, Brian Kemp wrote: > I had new gas and mixed the oil as I've done for years. After about 10 > minutes of use with the brush cutter, suddenly the trimmer lost power > and stalled. I found I could go to full choke, pull the cord, then go > the half choke and pull the cord and have it run normally for a few > minutes. No choke and it died. Once I hit a heavy patch of brush, it > would loose power and only idle. If I pulled the throttle it would > stall. I repeated this several times, with a shorter run period each > time till I couldn't make the engine run. Classic symptoms of a clogged fuel tank vent. Other possibilities in descending order of probability: -partially clogged jet in the carb -leaking crank seal or some other leak allowing air into the cases -stuck rings/partial piston seizure if its the latter then it'll be easier to pull but hard to start because the rings won't seal as well. Eric From battmain at yahoo.com Thu Mar 25 15:31:02 2010 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run In-Reply-To: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> References: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <224192.93892.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Sounds like fuel mixture issue to me if it will run with the choke partially open. Find the manual online and mess with the mixture adjustment. It is usually pretty easy. If that doesn't work, I'd get a carb rebuild kit or fuel diaphragm gasket and that should resolve the issue. The diaphragm can also stick in the carb. Take the carb apart and look at the flap on the diaphragm. It should be flexible and not stiff. If it's stiff, it wont meter the fuel properly. When you add more air by pressing the trigger, it needs more gas. Sounds like it isn't getting it, which is why you need to keep the choke active. Don't discount a crack in one of the fuel hoses. They can be hidden and be a RPITA to find. (Dont' ask how I know this. :/ ) Also clean the spark plug with a dremel and wire brush attachment if it has been sitting for a while, but I doubt that's the issue here. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Kemp To: Shop-Talk List Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 12:21:52 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run List, (snip) The fuel hose was replaced a year ago and looks in good shape. The foam in the air cleaner was a bit dirty, so I cleaned it. The carb looked like new. The spark plug was fine. I cleaned the mesh spark arrester on the muffler exit as it was pretty dirty. I drained the fuel and looked at the in tank filter and it looked good. Pushing the primer bulb gives the normal behavior of getting firm after 6 pushes, so I don't think there is any fuel delivery problem. There are two adjustment screws on the carb, but since they have not been touched in 10 years, I wouldn't expect they moved. I learned from my Triumphs that you don't play with carbs if they were working. (snip) From ericm at lne.com Thu Mar 25 16:08:34 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:08:34 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run In-Reply-To: <224192.93892.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> <224192.93892.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100325230834.GE14398@slack.lne.com> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 03:31:02PM -0700, Battmain wrote: > Sounds like fuel mixture issue to me if it will run with the choke partially open. Find the > manual online and mess with the mixture adjustment. It is usually pretty easy. If that Mixture adjustment doesn't go bad all by itself. I don't suggest twiddling the adjusters. Find the real problem. > doesn't work, I'd get a carb rebuild kit or fuel diaphragm gasket and that should > resolve the issue. The diaphragm can also stick in the carb. Take the carb apart and look > at the flap on the diaphragm. It should be flexible and not stiff. If it's stiff, it wont meter Correct about the diaphram. If you have to go into the carb to check for clogged jets, check that too. Plugs don't usually foul when the engine is running warm and WFO. When they do foul, the engine won't start. So that's not it. Eric From battmain at yahoo.com Thu Mar 25 19:59:19 2010 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run In-Reply-To: <20100325230834.GE14398@slack.lne.com> References: <4BAAE4E0.1050608@earthlink.net> <224192.93892.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20100325230834.GE14398@slack.lne.com> Message-ID: <759891.36661.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Setting the mixture is so easy on these things, if the fuel diaphragm isn't performing properly, you may be able to get more life out of the unit until you get the parts. Generally if you want your unit running properly (keyword) you're still going to have to do it when you get the parts anyway. (shrug) Adjustment is usually moving the screw 1/8 of a turn until the engine idles smooth at either end of the rpm range. (some use just the idle setting.) It is in the manual. If they didn't want us messing with it, they would have sealed it, and even then, the cap can usually be removed. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Eric Murray To: Battmain Cc: shoptalk Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 7:08:34 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] string trimmer engine won't run (snip) Mixture adjustment doesn't go bad all by itself. I don't suggest twiddling the adjusters. Find the real problem. (snip) Correct about the diaphram. If you have to go into the carb to check for clogged jets, check that too. (snip) Plugs don't usually foul when the engine is running warm and WFO. When they do foul, the engine won't start. So that's not it. From shop at justbrits.com Fri Mar 26 12:23:50 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:23:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford Roush P51B Engine NO LBC In-Reply-To: <4BAAD199.2030009@comcast.net> References: <2bde9.46bac99a.38daa01c@aol.com> <779AAC94A28C4B4A9550074D1357376B@Dell9200> <4BAAD199.2030009@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4BAD09C6.2060006@justbrits.com> A little background on the car for you NON-NASCAR fans !! Jack has restored & regularly flies a P51B Mustang !!! Wonder WHERE the name for the car came from !! ROUSH P-15B MUSTANG!! 510HP!! ONE OF 51 MADE!! Roush Performance continues their homage to the legendary World War II fighter plane with the 2009 Roush P-51B Mustang, the second aviation themed pony car from the Michigan based manufacturer. And as a Cup Fan, I already knew the story, but just wanted to get correct info for you folks !! Ed From tvacc at lotusowners.com Fri Mar 26 19:24:54 2010 From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:24:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Filiter needed. In-Reply-To: <804C224D9D1C4C37A12EDCAF6814D78D@amicroinc.local> References: <804C224D9D1C4C37A12EDCAF6814D78D@amicroinc.local> Message-ID: <4573E5303F754AC1B2364AE6730B304B@amicroinc.local> Hopefully the group here can help me on this. I am building an enclosure for a rack server (computer server to most of you) I need a filter about 4 inches high and up to but not needed 15 inches. It is to filter air for the server in a dirty environment. I want to change it every two weeks so I want it to slide in and out in some channels I will make. I want them to be relatively cheap and easy to gat. They should be rectangle, almost looking like 2 packs of cigarettes end to end. Can anyone suggest a car filter or furnace filter that looks like this. Tony Vaccaro LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York) www.lotusowners.com 716-861-1412 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4978 (20100326) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From eric at megageek.com Fri Mar 26 21:20:13 2010 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:50:13 +0430 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Filiter needed. In-Reply-To: <4573E5303F754AC1B2364AE6730B304B@amicroinc.local> Message-ID: Tony, If you plan on replacing it that often, I would go with any filter "off the shelf." What I would do is find some BIG furnace filters at the orange (or blue) Borg and cut them down to the size you need. That way you can get about 6 or 12 filters for the cost of one. Just make the filter opening able to handle the filters after they are cut. Or, you can get some "washable" furnace filters and just have two on hand. One clean and one in use. Switch them and clean the other one. Repeat. Hope this helps. BTW, I think that automotive filters will be too restrictive for normal rack fans. Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Mar 26 22:09:08 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:09:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air Filiter needed. In-Reply-To: References: <4573E5303F754AC1B2364AE6730B304B@amicroinc.local> Message-ID: <021601cacd6b$a1c3f810$0301a8c0@randall> > Or, you can get some "washable" furnace filters and just have > two on hand. I'll ditto that. Cutting down regular furnace filters doesn't work so well, they are flimsy and tend to fall apart. But my local "big box" store has universal washable filters that are designed to be cut to size. -- Randall From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sat Mar 27 06:46:08 2010 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:46:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Replacing Ford Brake Pedal Assembly Message-ID: I am getting ready to sell my 1999 Ford F250 and have a buyer lined up. However, the brake pedal occasionally sticks slightly on, causing the ABS light to come on and the cruise control to cut out. It comes and goes, but I don't want to sell the truck that way. We had the truck into dealer yesterday for recall and they checked out the brake pedal. They said the Pedal Assembly needs to be replaced. The part is only $67, but they are quoting $300 labor. If this is a royal PITA job then I am happy to have them do it, or just deduct the amount from the final sale price and be done with it. On the other had, $300 is real money if this is something I can easily do myself in a couple of hours. I don't have a manual for the truck, but could buy a digital one from Alldata for under $20. Before I spend the money on something I may never use, does anyone know what is involved in replacing the pedal assembly? And, maybe even more important, what goes wrong with it that would require replacement, rather than lubrication? I was out of town when all of this happened, so I didn't get a chance to talk to the mechanic and haven't inspected the assembly yet. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 From mg_garage at comcast.net Sat Mar 27 09:36:36 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (Gordie Bird) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 16:36:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Replacing Ford Brake Pedal Assembly In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1298347780.32459901269707796355.JavaMail.root@sz0071a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I don't know what might be wrong, but looking at just the labor cost, it looks as though there is a fair amount of labor. Dealers use a flat rate table and if your dealer is at $100/hr labor, then that is 3 hours labor for an experienced technician with factory manuals and tech assistance in hand. Even if you had the same experience as a dealer tech, I doubt you could break the labor time if you've never done the job before. I'd negotiate it with the buyer, unless he is in no hurry and you have nothing but time. Good luck. Gordie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Stone" To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:46:08 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Shop-talk] Replacing Ford Brake Pedal Assembly I am getting ready to sell my 1999 Ford F250 and have a buyer lined up. However, the brake pedal occasionally sticks slightly on, causing the ABS light to come on and the cruise control to cut out. It comes and goes, but I don't want to sell the truck that way. We had the truck into dealer yesterday for recall and they checked out the brake pedal. They said the Pedal Assembly needs to be replaced. The part is only $67, but they are quoting $300 labor. If this is a royal PITA job then I am happy to have them do it, or just deduct the amount from the final sale price and be done with it. On the other had, $300 is real money if this is something I can easily do myself in a couple of hours. I don't have a manual for the truck, but could buy a digital one from Alldata for under $20. Before I spend the money on something I may never use, does anyone know what is involved in replacing the pedal assembly? And, maybe even more important, what goes wrong with it that would require replacement, rather than lubrication? I was out of town when all of this happened, so I didn't get a chance to talk to the mechanic and haven't inspected the assembly yet. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mg_garage at comcast.net From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Mar 27 10:47:49 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 13:47:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Replacing Ford Brake Pedal Assembly In-Reply-To: <1298347780.32459901269707796355.JavaMail.root@sz0071a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1298347780.32459901269707796355.JavaMail.root@sz0071a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003271047g4ed09521y879f95a392185a1c@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Gordie Bird wrote: > I don't know what might be wrong, but looking at just the labor cost, it > looks as though there is a fair amount of labor. Dealers use a flat rate > table and if your dealer is at $100/hr labor, then that is 3 hours labor for > an experienced technician with factory manuals and tech assistance in hand. > Even if you had the same experience as a dealer tech, I doubt you could > break the labor time if you've never done the job before. > I'd negotiate it with the buyer, unless he is in no hurry and you have > nothing but time. > Good luck. > > I'd see if I could find out what's actually involved. If there are no special tools required, I'd do it myself. Flat rate books tend towards the generous; particularly if they don't assume specialized tools. If there are tools required, or it looks like its a pain, I'd have the shop do it. (I don't think I'd take a 11 year old ford truck to the dealer: every indpendent shop in the country works on F series trucks every day. ) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From shop at justbrits.com Sat Mar 27 12:05:01 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:05:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Replacing Ford Brake Pedal Assembly In-Reply-To: <2400a5d41003271047g4ed09521y879f95a392185a1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1298347780.32459901269707796355.JavaMail.root@sz0071a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <2400a5d41003271047g4ed09521y879f95a392185a1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BAE56DD.1010300@justbrits.com> Jim, I am with Dave....... << (I don't think I'd take a 11 year old ford truck to the dealer: every indpendent shop in the country works on F series trucks every day. ) >> Prolly half of what dealer wants !!! Ed From mg_garage at comcast.net Sat Mar 27 13:45:48 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (Gordie Bird) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 20:45:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Replacing Ford Brake Pedal Assembly In-Reply-To: <4BAE56DD.1010300@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <1474182887.32521491269722748468.JavaMail.root@sz0071a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Ah, yah, good point there. Definitely investigate it. I'm a little gun shy after taking 3 hrs to replace 1 lower control arm on my old A4. :-( Gordie Jim, I am with Dave....... << (I don't think I'd take a 11 year old ford truck to the dealer: every indpendent shop in the country works on F series trucks every day. ) >> Prolly half of what dealer wants !!! Ed _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mg_garage at comcast.net From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sat Mar 27 15:17:05 2010 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 17:17:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Replacing Ford Brake Pedal Assembly In-Reply-To: <1474182887.32521491269722748468.JavaMail.root@sz0071a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <4BAE56DD.1010300@justbrits.com>, <1474182887.32521491269722748468.JavaMail.root@sz0071a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: That's a good point guys. The only reason the dealer had it in the first place was because of the recall. I've got more than enough to keep me busy; I think I'll investigate alternatives. Thanks! > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 20:45:48 +0000 > From: mg_garage at comcast.net > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Replacing Ford Brake Pedal Assembly > > Ah, yah, good point there. Definitely investigate it. I'm a little gun shy after taking 3 hrs to replace 1 lower control arm on my old A4. :-( > > Gordie > > Jim, I am with Dave....... > > << (I don't think I'd take a 11 year old ford truck to the dealer: > every indpendent shop in the country works on F series trucks > every day. ) >> > > Prolly half of what dealer wants !!! > > Ed > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/mg_garage at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsofts powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850552/direct/01/ From ronnie.day at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 09:14:28 2010 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 11:14:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders Message-ID: <2faaebf81003280914p53c10e7fv54a26ee45d2b0b55@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone used any of the reverse flow bleeder system like the ones from Phoenix Systems that Stacy David talks about on his show? They make several models including a fairly inexpensive unit for under $100. I wouldn't mind spending that much or a bit more, if they work well of course. It would make taking care of the brakes on our "fleet" a lot easier. Ron From racertod at racertodd.com Sun Mar 28 12:40:10 2010 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:40:10 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <2faaebf81003280914p53c10e7fv54a26ee45d2b0b55@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> Ronnie wrote: >Has anyone used any of the reverse flow bleeder system like the ones >from Phoenix Systems that Stacy David talks about on his show? > >They make several models including a fairly inexpensive unit for under >$100. I wouldn't mind spending that much or a bit more, if they work >well of course. It would make taking care of the brakes on our "fleet" >a lot easier. I've never liked the whole reverse flow bleed concept. I don't want to push the dirty fluid in the caliper back up into the master cylinder. Especially on an ABS-equipped car. Those ABS pumps and valves aren't tolerant of contamination. I prefer pushing clean fluid through the master and out to the calipers. I use a Motive Power Bleeder (www.motiveproducts.com) on my Golf and GTI (non-ABS) and my TDI (ABS) with no issues. After R&Ring the ABS pump and master on the TDI I was able to bleed the system just fine. You can get a Motive with one adapter for $60 or so, $100 will get you several adapters to fit different vehicles. The Motive also makes it easy to flush the system, something I do every two years. I put two quarts of fluid in the bleeder. My catch container is marked in 1/2 quart increments. I then put 1/2 quart through each caliper, ensuring I've flushed out the old fluid and replaced it with new. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 270,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 234,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From strovato at optonline.net Sun Mar 28 13:21:54 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 16:21:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <0L0000BWDDWTK1B0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Todd, That seems like a whole lot of fluid to me. I see a change in color of brake fluid at the bleeder, and at that point I figure I'm getting clean fluid. I'd say I typically use half the fluid you do. If you were doing it the old "helper pushing the brake pedal" method, your helper would certainly have leg cramps! So I guess, question to the group, how much fluid to you typically pump through when doing a brake system flush/bleed? -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 03:40 PM 3/28/2010, Todd Walke wrote: I put two quarts of fluid in the bleeder. My catch container is marked in 1/2 quart increments. I then put 1/2 quart through each caliper, ensuring I've flushed out the old fluid and replaced it with new. From ronnie.day at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 13:26:31 2010 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 15:26:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <2faaebf81003281326y35da98d8l5bb8a18087d6c026@mail.gmail.com> Good points, Todd. I hadn't thought about reverse flush messing with the ABS. Regardless, I'd like a "power/pressurized" flush system I can use by myself. I've already cost myself unnecessarily by not flushing the system on our '95 Odyssey ($250 for a new M/C) and a '93 GMC (new M/C, front calipers and all flex hoses). Need to do it on our '05 Accord like yesterday, and there's the '70 Datsun roadster and a couple of 510s in storage. Like I said, we have a fleet which will almost certainly grow and it just makes sense to have a quick and through method for taking care of this sort of thing. Ron > Todd >> Has anyone used any of the reverse flow bleeder system like the ones >> from Phoenix Systems that Stacy David talks about on his show? >> >> They make several models including a fairly inexpensive unit for under >> $100. I wouldn't mind spending that much or a bit more, if they work >> well of course. It would make taking care of the brakes on our "fleet" >> a lot easier. > > B B B B I've never liked the whole reverse flow bleed concept. B I don't want > to push the dirty fluid in the caliper back up into the master cylinder. > B Especially on an ABS-equipped car. B Those ABS pumps and valves aren't > tolerant of contamination. B I prefer pushing clean fluid through the master > and out to the calipers. > B B B B I use a Motive Power Bleeder (www.motiveproducts.com) on my Golf and > GTI (non-ABS) and my TDI (ABS) with no issues. B After R&Ring the ABS pump > and master on the TDI I was able to bleed the system just fine. B You can get > a Motive with one adapter for $60 or so, $100 will get you several adapters > to fit different vehicles. > B B B B The Motive also makes it easy to flush the system, something I do > every two years. B I put two quarts of fluid in the bleeder. B My catch > container is marked in 1/2 quart increments. B I then put 1/2 quart through > each caliper, ensuring I've flushed out the old fluid and replaced it with > new. From racertod at racertodd.com Sun Mar 28 14:01:26 2010 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:01:26 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <0L0000BWDDWTK1B0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> Steven wrote: >That seems like a whole lot of fluid to me. I see a change in color of >brake fluid at the bleeder, and at that point I figure I'm getting clean >fluid. I'd say I typically use half the fluid you do. If you were doing >it the old "helper pushing the brake pedal" method, your helper would >certainly have leg cramps! So I guess, question to the group, how much >fluid to you typically pump through when doing a brake system flush/bleed? My GTI only sees 2500 miles a year or so and thus brake jobs are years apart so I flush the system every two years. Two quarts seems like a lot, but brake fluid is relatively cheap and anything worth doing is worth overdoing, ya know. With a pressure bleeder, the time difference between bleeding out 1 qt vs 2 is an extra 10 minutes. On my active car, previously the Golf and now the TDI, I'll go through front pads in less than two years so I just do a quick bleed every time I do pads and don't bother with the two year flush. I use one quart and put 1/4 quart through each corner. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 270,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 234,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From jblair1948 at cox.net Sun Mar 28 17:01:39 2010 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:01:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <2faaebf81003281326y35da98d8l5bb8a18087d6c026@mail.gmail.co m> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <2faaebf81003281326y35da98d8l5bb8a18087d6c026@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20100328200043.044a4630@cox.net> At 04:26 PM 3/28/2010, Ronnie Day wrote: >Good points, Todd. I hadn't thought about reverse flush messing with >the ABS. Regardless, I'd like a "power/pressurized" flush system I can >use by myself. Ron, Here's a link to an article on building your own pressure bleeder from my Morgan web page. http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From 57healey at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 18:13:56 2010 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:13:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Buying a car online Message-ID: <743b1e2f1003281813kc159771n75fbf6433c5748fe@mail.gmail.com> I am looking for another car (non Healey, its a Saab) to join the Healey in the toy stable. I have been looking since mid December, and think I just found the car I want in Santa Fe. I have contacted a shop there that has a good, long standing reputation in the Saab world, and they know the car and owner pretty well, and will do a comprehensive pre-purchase inspection for me at a reasonable fee. The plan WAS, if the pre-inspection goes well and the price is agreed to, to fly over inspect the car and drive it back (about 10 hours). The problem is things are starting to come up that may keep my from flying over and driving back. The cost to ship is only about $100 more than a plane ticket, 1 hotel room, then the gas it would take me to make the drive. If I decide to take the right on buying it without the personal inspection but rely on the shop inspection, what is the best way to handle the money/title transfer. When I did this on the Healey, we just exchanged fedex's, but I know that was a risk. Any suggestions to protect that I get the car and the title if I send the money? Patton -- Patton Dickson - http://Austin-Healeys.com - Plano, TX 1957 Austin-Healey 100-Six "Built to run 'til the road wears out." From arvidj at visi.com Sun Mar 28 18:51:39 2010 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:51:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com><5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <0AE30A450E48457BAE53AD0FB6A40BCB@behavioral.com> As a data point, I flush the '93 MR2's every couple of years with the "helper method". I've yet to find a cap that will fit on the master cylinder that will allow me to use my pressure bleeder so Bev is kind enough to help out. I switch between ATE Super Blue and Gold so it is easy to see the fluid changes. It seems like it takes about a 1 liter can plus another cup of fluid to completely flush each car. Arvid From al at bighealey.org Sun Mar 28 19:18:44 2010 From: al at bighealey.org (Al Fuller) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:18:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Healeys] Buying a car online In-Reply-To: <743b1e2f1003281813kc159771n75fbf6433c5748fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <743b1e2f1003281813kc159771n75fbf6433c5748fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003701cacee6$29036a10$7b0a3e30$@org> Patton: Not to throw cold water on your plan, but the shop that "knows the car and owner pretty well" has a vested interest in ensuring the car gets a 'pass' on the pre-purchase inspection. Is there no one else who can do the inspection, such as a dealer or other shop, who is not an interested party? On to actually answering your question, if anyone on the list is an attorney and is in the area, I suspect they could act as your escrow agent. Al Fuller al at bighealey.org '62 BT-7 '65 BJ-8 '85 Rx-7 -----Original Message----- From: healeys-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:healeys-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Patton Dickson Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:14 PM To: Healey List; Shop-Talk Subject: [Healeys] Buying a car online I am looking for another car (non Healey, its a Saab) to join the Healey in the toy stable. I have been looking since mid December, and think I just found the car I want in Santa Fe. I have contacted a shop there that has a good, long standing reputation in the Saab world, and they know the car and owner pretty well, and will do a comprehensive pre-purchase inspection for me at a reasonable fee. The plan WAS, if the pre-inspection goes well and the price is agreed to, to fly over inspect the car and drive it back (about 10 hours). The problem is things are starting to come up that may keep my from flying over and driving back. The cost to ship is only about $100 more than a plane ticket, 1 hotel room, then the gas it would take me to make the drive. If I decide to take the right on buying it without the personal inspection but rely on the shop inspection, what is the best way to handle the money/title transfer. When I did this on the Healey, we just exchanged fedex's, but I know that was a risk. Any suggestions to protect that I get the car and the title if I send the money? Patton -- Patton Dickson - http://Austin-Healeys.com - Plano, TX 1957 Austin-Healey 100-Six "Built to run 'til the road wears out." _______________________________________________ Healeys at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/al at bighealey.org From chad at linuxeg.com Sun Mar 28 19:22:40 2010 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chad on LEG) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:22:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <0AE30A450E48457BAE53AD0FB6A40BCB@behavioral.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com><5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <0AE30A450E48457BAE53AD0FB6A40BCB@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <4BB00EF0.20106@linuxeg.com> Am I the only one that uses a Mityvac to bleed and/or replace the fluid? chad -- "When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. Ronald Reagan From racertod at racertodd.com Sun Mar 28 19:30:58 2010 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:30:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <0AE30A450E48457BAE53AD0FB6A40BCB@behavioral.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com> Arvid wrote: >As a data point, I flush the '93 MR2's every couple of years with the >"helper method". I've yet to find a cap that will fit on the master >cylinder that will allow me to use my pressure bleeder so Bev is kind >enough to help out. I switch between ATE Super Blue and Gold so it is easy >to see the fluid changes. It seems like it takes about a 1 liter can plus >another cup of fluid to completely flush each car. Motive has a universal adapters, both for round and rectangular reservoirs. I've used the round adapter on a couple of other cars, it works fine. They also can take an old cap of yours and modify it to fit their bleeder. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 270,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 234,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From cavanadd at verizon.net Sun Mar 28 19:51:29 2010 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 19:51:29 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <4BB00EF0.20106@linuxeg.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com><5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <0AE30A450E48457BAE53AD0FB6A40BCB@behavioral.com> <4BB00EF0.20106@linuxeg.com> Message-ID: <4BB015B1.6020804@verizon.net> No, I use one, too, but only on motorcycles. (Don't ask about my other vehicles.) Chad on LEG wrote: > Am I the only one that uses a Mityvac to bleed and/or replace the fluid? > chad From shop at justbrits.com Sun Mar 28 20:04:48 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:04:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <4BB00EF0.20106@linuxeg.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com><5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <0AE30A450E48457BAE53AD0FB6A40BCB@behavioral.com> <4BB00EF0.20106@linuxeg.com> Message-ID: <4BB018D0.3050206@justbrits.com> Chad.... << Am I the only one that uses a Mityvac to bleed and/or replace the fluid? >> I put mine back in the tool chest after I used an EeziBleed !! MityVac gets used for vacuum T/Sing ONLY !!! MityVac is a POS compared to it !!! Yes, I do sell it but I have been using [I think I am on #6 or #7 from loaning out - NOT being brought back - but replaced with a check] one since it came out 20?? years ago ?!?!?! BEST thing since sliced bread or the monkey-wrench was invented !!!! Even the left-hand adjustable Whitworth wrench !!! Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com PS: Ooops, caveat: I ONLY use on vehicles [98% are LBCs] '80 backwards !!! From arvidj at visi.com Mon Mar 29 06:42:42 2010 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:42:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com><5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com><5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com> Message-ID: <5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com> I have both the round and rectangular adapters and neither of them fit. Obviously the "flat" part of the adapter fits on the top of the master cylinder but the "chains" that clamp it down do not fit the cramped quarters under the MR2 "frunk". Admittedly when you look at the adapters ... especially the round one ... you say "how can it not fit?" but it actually turns out to be too wide to get the adapter and the chains to work effectively. I've purchased an extra cap but it is a little strange in that it really does not create a tight seal on the top of the master cylinder. The way the cap is designed is good enough to not allow brake fluid to spill out - i.e. exactly what Toyota had in mind for the cap - but it does not clamp down and provide a pressure tight seal - or at least one that I am willing to trust - the way the screw-on cap for the BMW does. Someone asked about using a Mityvac. I use one for the motorcycle and it works fine. I've also used this ... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92924 and had good luck. I've tried to use both of the vacuum systems on the MR2's but not had any luck. I attribute this to both cars having SpeedBleeders on them and the theoretical maximum of 14.7 psi of "suck" they might generate on a standard day at sea level not being enough to overcome the ball and spring valve in the bleeder. I would speculate that a non-SpeedBleeder system would work just fine. Arvid ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Walke" To: Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders > Arvid wrote: > >>As a data point, I flush the '93 MR2's every couple of years with the >>"helper method". I've yet to find a cap that will fit on the master >>cylinder that will allow me to use my pressure bleeder so Bev is kind >>enough to help out. I switch between ATE Super Blue and Gold so it is easy >>to see the fluid changes. It seems like it takes about a 1 liter can plus >>another cup of fluid to completely flush each car. > > Motive has a universal adapters, both for round and rectangular > reservoirs. I've used the round adapter on a couple of other cars, it > works fine. They also can take an old cap of yours and modify it to fit > their bleeder. From jamesf at groupwbench.org Mon Mar 29 06:53:39 2010 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? Message-ID: I have a lot of ferrules to crimp: http://www.amazon.com/Columbus-McKinnon-52337DIB-Cable-Ferrules/dp/B000WCQY4C /ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1269870558&sr=8-2 Are there specialized tools? I don't get any usable hits on Google. If not, what are the best pliers to use? I'd rather not spend $50+ on a specialized tool, but < $50 at an easy place like Sears I would do. I do have a decent collection of shop/home pliers though. Vice-grips come to mind as having a nice leverage ratio. thanks, From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Mar 29 08:32:02 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:32:02 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005e01cacf54$fb50cee0$0301a8c0@randall> > I have a lot of ferrules to crimp: > > Are there specialized tools? Here is one kind: http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/tools/swagers.html Here is another: http://jayme220.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=k2&action=display&thread=183 > I'd rather not spend $50+ on a specialized tool, but < $50 at > an easy place > like Sears I would do. For under %50, I think you're stuck using a blunted cold chisel (or similar) and a BFH. Or you could try making something like this: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/no2swageit.php with twin holes. -- Randall From ronnie.day at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 08:51:33 2010 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:51:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2faaebf81003290851v11a1d09p467d294a49c736c7@mail.gmail.com> > Jim > > http://www.amazon.com/Columbus-McKinnon-52337DIB-Cable-Ferrules/dp/B000WCQY4C > /ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1269870558&sr=8-2 > > Are there specialized tools? I don't get any usable hits on Google. If not, > what are the best pliers to use? > > I'd rather not spend $50+ on a specialized tool, but < $50 at an easy place > like Sears I would do. I do have a decent collection of shop/home pliers > though. Vice-grips come to mind as having a nice leverage ratio. I'd guess Tractor Supply, Northern Tool, Harbor Freight, maybe McMaster. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 09:46:01 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:46:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com> <5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Arvid Jedlicka wrote: > \ > Someone asked about using a Mityvac. I use one for the motorcycle and it > works fine. I've also used this ... > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92924 and > had good luck. I've tried to use both of the vacuum systems on the MR2's but > not had any luck. I attribute this to both cars having SpeedBleeders on them > and the theoretical maximum of 14.7 psi of "suck" they might generate on a > standard day at sea level not being enough to overcome the ball and spring > valve in the bleeder. I would speculate that a non-SpeedBleeder system would > work just fine. > > > I use one I made myself. It's a quart jar, a lid that has two barbed hose fittings epoxied in place, and some pieces of Tygon tubing. Works fine on everything I've ever used it on. (Which is lots of stuff. Nothing with SlowBleeders in them, though.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 09:49:00 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 12:49:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2400a5d41003290949o27932997n7d9544e1289c@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I have a lot of ferrules to crimp: > > > http://www.amazon.com/Columbus-McKinnon-52337DIB-Cable-Ferrules/dp/B000WCQY4C > /ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1269870558&sr=8-2 > > Are there specialized tools? I don't get any usable hits on Google. If not, > what are the best pliers to use? > > I'd rather not spend $50+ on a specialized tool, but < $50 at an easy place > like Sears I would do. I do have a decent collection of shop/home pliers > though. Vice-grips come to mind as having a nice leverage ratio. > > How many, and what are you using the ropes for? a chisel works fine, f they're not being used for load bearing applications. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From shop at justbrits.com Mon Mar 29 09:58:13 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:58:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BB0DC25.2060709@justbrits.com> Hi Jim !! << If not, what are the best pliers to use? >> Having done MANY of those type, I doubt seriously you will find 'pliers' to do the job !!! << I'd rather not spend $50+ on a specialized tool, but < $50 at an easy place like Sears I would do. >> I have used a regular chisel with the "blade" "rounded" off so as to have a non-sharp tool and we made the end almost identical to the "cup" of the ferrule. Used a "machinest steel" on the non-striking side. First time I was on a tower [Rohn 25] at approx'ly 70' and had NINE [9] to do IN THE AIR !!! Kinda squirrelly !! LOL Same thing again at 90' then again at 120' and finally at 190' [REALLY squirrelly - the tower that is ] !!! Ed From jamesf at groupwbench.org Mon Mar 29 10:04:50 2010 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:04:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: <2400a5d41003290949o27932997n7d9544e1289c@mail.gmail.com> References: <2400a5d41003290949o27932997n7d9544e1289c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5813C0A8-9E34-4F9A-B69C-01D2D47C549E@groupwbench.org> On Mar 29, 2010, at 12:49 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > > How many, and what are you using the ropes for? a chisel works fine, f they're not being used for load bearing applications. About 400, supporting roughly 10 lbs, in remote locations so it needs to be portable. I've used swagers for large applications: but these are small, securing 1/16" cables. From brabel at comcast.net Mon Mar 29 10:44:10 2010 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:44:10 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? Message-ID: You might be able to rent or borrow a ferrule crimper from a marine supply. Especially if you buy the ferrules from them. Don't rule out a tool rental store, either. - Bill Rabel Anacortes, WA >> I have a lot of ferrules to crimp: >> >> Are there specialized tools? > > Here is one kind: > http://www.webriggingsupply.com/pages/catalog/tools/swagers.html > > Here is another: > http://jayme220.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=k2&action=display&thread=183 Bill Rabel brabel at comcast.net From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 10:46:08 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:46:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: <4BB0DC25.2060709@justbrits.com> References: <4BB0DC25.2060709@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003291046q1909c160xc2add8e698eb514a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Shop at " Just Brits " wrote: > Hi Jim !! > > > << If not, what are the best pliers to use? >> > > Having done MANY of those type, I doubt seriously > you will find 'pliers' to do the job !!! > > The crane supply place I've bought winch wire ropes for uses ratcheting pliers. They've got ones to fit 1" rope. > > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 10:58:02 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:58:02 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: <5813C0A8-9E34-4F9A-B69C-01D2D47C549E@groupwbench.org> References: <2400a5d41003290949o27932997n7d9544e1289c@mail.gmail.com> <5813C0A8-9E34-4F9A-B69C-01D2D47C549E@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003291058j2dff0ec1md37ae9be81a5d1e4@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > On Mar 29, 2010, at 12:49 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > > > > > How many, and what are you using the ropes for? a chisel works fine, f > they're not being used for load bearing applications. > > About 400, supporting roughly 10 lbs, in remote locations so it needs to be > portable. I've used swagers for large applications: > > but these are small, securing 1/16" cables. > > If you're not willing to buy the proper crimpers, use clips, or epoxy potted ends. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From fortee9er at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 18:10:27 2010 From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20100328200043.044a4630@cox.net> Message-ID: <799913.99716.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I used that article to build my pressure bleeder a few years ago and it has worked great. --- On Sun, 3/28/10, John T. Blair wrote: > From: John T. Blair > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Sunday, March 28, 2010, 7:01 PM > At 04:26 PM 3/28/2010, Ronnie Day > wrote: > >Good points, Todd. I hadn't thought about reverse flush > messing with > >the ABS. Regardless, I'd like a "power/pressurized" > flush system I can > >use by myself. > > > Ron, > > Here's a link to an article on building your own pressure > bleeder from my > Morgan web page. > > http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm > > > John > > > John T. Blair WA4OHZ > email: jblair1948 at cox.net > Va. Beach, Va > Phone: (757) 495-8229 > > 48 > TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 > Series V (B1106) > 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) > 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III > > 65 Rambler Classic > > Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan > Bricklin: www.bricklin.org > > If you can read this > - Thank a teacher! > If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fortee9er at yahoo.com From strovato at optonline.net Mon Mar 29 18:46:09 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:46:09 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20100328200043.044a4630@cox.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <2faaebf81003281326y35da98d8l5bb8a18087d6c026@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.1.20100328200043.044a4630@cox.net> Message-ID: <0L02008LUNNG7AM0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> John, I too built a pressure bleeder based on your article and a couple of others that I found. The master cylinder adapter has definitely been the most challenging part for me. Sure, for some cars you can just pick up some readily available cap at the auto parts store and whip something together. But for others, it's a bit more difficult. For my MGs, I took an old original Lockheed cap, drilled it and soldered in a fitting. The gasket was still not up to the task of containing any pressure. Motive products does have quite a variety of adapters available for purchase, but they are rather expensive for what they are. In any event, it's a great article, and once you get the cap part worked out for the particular application, it works well. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 08:01 PM 3/28/2010, John T. Blair wrote: >Here's a link to an article on building your own pressure bleeder from my >Morgan web page. > >http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm > > >John From jamesf at groupwbench.org Mon Mar 29 19:18:29 2010 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:18:29 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D5C2CC4-53B7-4305-8988-EF2EB6FCEEB5@groupwbench.org> On Mar 29, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Jim Franklin wrote: > I have a lot of ferrules to crimp: > > Are there specialized tools? [...] Vice-grips come to mind as having a nice leverage ratio. And indeed, the Vice-Grips worked just fine. From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Mon Mar 29 20:14:48 2010 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:14:48 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Subject: Cable ferrule pliers? Message-ID: Message: 4 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 09:53:39 -0400 From: Jim Franklin Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? To: Shop-Talk List Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have a lot of ferrules to crimp: http://www.amazon.com/Columbus-McKinnon-52337DIB-Cable-Ferrules/dp/B000WCQY4 C /ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1269870558&sr=8-2 Are there specialized tools? I don't get any usable hits on Google. If not, what are the best pliers to use? I'd rather not spend $50+ on a specialized tool, but < $50 at an easy place like Sears I would do. I do have a decent collection of shop/home pliers though. Vice-grips come to mind as having a nice leverage ratio. I've had good success using a set of small bolt cutters with the jaws ground 'flat'. Easy to use (grind the jaws so that fully closed is correctly crimped) and cheap: you can use some $10 cutters from HF. Mark. From paul.mele at usermail.com Tue Mar 30 05:18:21 2010 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:18:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com> <5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com> <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006201cad003$1704a4a0$450dede0$@mele@usermail.com> I use one I made myself. It's a quart jar, a lid that has two barbed hose fittings epoxied in place, and some pieces of Tygon tubing. Works fine on everything I've ever used it on. (Which is lots of stuff. Nothing with SlowBleeders in them, though.) I use the older version of the HF Bernoulli pump http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96677 for sucking down AC, along with the home made trap as above. works on the MR2's (Mk 1), BMW's, and trucks PM From jandkstone99 at msn.com Tue Mar 30 15:41:07 2010 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:41:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <006201cad003$1704a4a0$450dede0$@mele@usermail.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com>, <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com>, <5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com>, <5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com>, <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com>, <006201cad003$1704a4a0$450dede0$@mele@usermail.com> Message-ID: I know vacuum bleeders don't work well on hydraulic clutches; how about pressure bleeders? The design of the Alpine hydraulic system makes it almost impossible to get the last bit of air out of the slave cylinder and I have often thought that a pressure bleeder might do the trick. > From: paul.mele at usermail.com > To: dmscheidt at gmail.com; arvidj at visi.com > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:18:21 -0400 > CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders > > I use one I made myself. It's a quart jar, a lid that has two barbed hose > fittings epoxied in place, and some pieces of Tygon tubing. Works fine on > everything I've ever used it on. (Which is lots of stuff. Nothing with > SlowBleeders in them, though.) > > > I use the older version of the HF Bernoulli pump > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96677 > > > for sucking down AC, along with the home made trap as above. > works on the MR2's (Mk 1), BMW's, and trucks > > PM > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jandkstone99 at msn.com > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsofts powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850552/direct/01/ From opposumking at verizon.net Tue Mar 30 16:01:01 2010 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:01:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BB282AD.3060801@verizon.net> I've crimped a lot of ferrules over the years. Nothing works like a good tool for the job. It's fast, easy and strong. Done with pliers and chisels and the like, the results are far less impressive. Got a TSC (tractor supply) nearby? Or say a Southern States? They've got good ferrule crimping tools right there on the shelf. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 16:54:29 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:54:29 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com> <5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com> <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d41003301654h432a192cg640589fb54ca47c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > I know vacuum bleeders don't work well on hydraulic clutches; how about > pressure bleeders? The design of the Alpine hydraulic system makes it > almost > impossible to get the last bit of air out of the slave cylinder and I have > often thought that a pressure bleeder might do the trick. > > I've bled the clutches on hundreds of cars, in lots of makes, with a vacuum bleeder, and never had a problem. I confess to never having worked on alpine clutch (but I'm sure I've bleed clutches with the same slave cylinder.). Pressure bleeders make brute force solutions easier (if you run a couple times the volume of a system through, you can get all the air out.), but vacuum should work. (One source of problems with vacuum bleeders is air leakage around the threds of the bleeder screw. Pressure bleeders fill that space with pressurized fluid, so they don't usually get air sucked in that way. Some cylinders are more prone ot he problem than others.) One problem with bleeding British car hydraulic systems is the swept volume of master cylinders is very low compared to the volume of the wheel cylinders, calipers and slaves. American and Japanese systems tend to have a much higher volume of fluid moved per complete stroke of the pedal. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Tue Mar 30 18:58:50 2010 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:58:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? In-Reply-To: <4BB282AD.3060801@verizon.net> References: , <4BB282AD.3060801@verizon.net> Message-ID: I have been using one of these for years. It is not fast but I do not think I could get as good crimp with a pair of pliers. I guess it depends on how big the cable is and how much weight it needs to hold. http://www.swage-ittools.com/SWAGE-IT_TOOLS.html#1 Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:01:01 -0400 > From: opposumking at verizon.net > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cable ferrule pliers? > > I've crimped a lot of ferrules over the years. Nothing works like a > good tool for the job. It's fast, easy and strong. Done with pliers > and chisels and the like, the results are far less impressive. > > Got a TSC (tractor supply) nearby? Or say a Southern States? They've > got good ferrule crimping tools right there on the shelf. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com From jibjib at att.net Tue Mar 30 19:47:27 2010 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:47:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com><5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com><5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com><5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com> <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4400E73B7CA9453BA0ECD0AAFEAB1883@hpa1477c> Dave, That's pretty fancy. I made two holes in the lid and stuffed the lines through. OK, I'm cheap. Jack Dave wrote: I use one I made myself. It's a quart jar, a lid that has two barbed hose fittings epoxied in place, and some pieces of Tygon tubing. Works fine on everything I've ever used it on. (Which is lots of stuff. Nothing with SlowBleeders in them, though.) From jandkstone99 at msn.com Wed Mar 31 05:20:56 2010 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:20:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: <2400a5d41003301654h432a192cg640589fb54ca47c@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com>, <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com>, <5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com>, <5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com>, <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com>, , <2400a5d41003301654h432a192cg640589fb54ca47c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks David. I don't know exactly what it is about Alpine clutches, but know some people have resorted to raising the front end of the car and leaving the slave bleeder slightly open all night long (and draining into a jar with fluid in it) in order to get that last bit of air out. (I tried that once and it didn't seem to do anything.) I have also used my vacuum bleeder and the good old helper method and while everything works, there is no question in my mind that there is still a bit of air in there. I can feel the difference after I pump the system a couple of times. It is subtle, but definitely there. Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:54:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders From: dmscheidt at gmail.com To: jandkstone99 at msn.com CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Jim Stone wrote: I know vacuum bleeders don't work well on hydraulic clutches; how about pressure bleeders? The design of the Alpine hydraulic system makes it almost impossible to get the last bit of air out of the slave cylinder and I have often thought that a pressure bleeder might do the trick. I've bled the clutches on hundreds of cars, in lots of makes, with a vacuum bleeder, and never had a problem. I confess to never having worked on alpine clutch (but I'm sure I've bleed clutches with the same slave cylinder.). Pressure bleeders make brute force solutions easier (if you run a couple times the volume of a system through, you can get all the air out.), but vacuum should work. (One source of problems with vacuum bleeders is air leakage around the threds of the bleeder screw. Pressure bleeders fill that space with pressurized fluid, so they don't usually get air sucked in that way. Some cylinders are more prone ot he problem than others.) One problem with bleeding British car hydraulic systems is the swept volume of master cylinders is very low compared to the volume of the wheel cylinders, calipers and slaves. American and Japanese systems tend to have a much higher volume of fluid moved per complete stroke of the pedal. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/ From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 07:04:38 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:04:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brake system bleeders In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20100328122510.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328135343.00bcbb18@mail.avvanta.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20100328192433.00c337f8@mail.avvanta.com> <5A8E2BE2EAC2487A9BFA4496E3263F15@behavioral.com> <2400a5d41003290946t462aa891v82e464d32aa773b4@mail.gmail.com> <2400a5d41003301654h432a192cg640589fb54ca47c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > Thanks David. I don't know exactly what it is about Alpine clutches, but > know some people have resorted to raising the front end of the car and > leaving the slave bleeder slightly open all night long (and draining into a > jar with fluid in it) in order to get that last bit of air out. (I tried > that once and it didn't seem to do anything.) I have also used my vacuum > bleeder and the good old helper method and while everything works, there is > no question in my mind that there is still a bit of air in there. I can > feel the difference after I pump the system a couple of times. It is > subtle, but definitely there. > > You're bench bleeding the system before you install it, right? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com