From lotuseuropa at me.com Thu Jul 1 12:41:25 2010 From: lotuseuropa at me.com (Michael Lye) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 14:41:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape Message-ID: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> Most of the eledtrical tape I've used over the years seems to use an adhesive that turns to a sticky gooey mess pretty quickly. Does anyone have recommendations for e-tape that doesn't do this? I have other kinds of PSA tapes (gaffers, blue painters, etc) that don't do this but I'm looking for a thin plastic electrical tape specifically. TIA Michael From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Jul 1 12:48:01 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:48:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape In-Reply-To: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> References: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> Message-ID: <4C2CE2E1.7090802@hornesystemstx.com> Michael, Have you tried the higher end electrical tapes from 3M? I seem to remember that the cheaper the tape, the stickier it gets. I use, I believe 3M #66 tape. Most of the tape I use is outside, on RF connectors, which need to be taped waterproof. I use the self-sealing rubber tape first, followed by electrical tape, and finally liquid electrician's tape. I find the black liquid tape lasts much longer than the red stuff. I haven't had water get into my connectors in years, so something must be working! Peace, Pat Thusly spake Michael Lye, On 7/1/2010 1:41 PM: > Most of the eledtrical tape I've used over the years seems to use an adhesive that turns to a sticky gooey mess pretty quickly. Does anyone have recommendations for e-tape that doesn't do this? I have other kinds of PSA tapes (gaffers, blue painters, etc) that don't do this but I'm looking for a thin plastic electrical tape specifically. > > TIA > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Jul 1 12:49:48 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:49:48 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape In-Reply-To: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> References: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> Message-ID: <4C2CE34C.60003@hornesystemstx.com> One other thing I should have included in my last post is that if you are using electrical tape to wrap a wiring harness, it is not the tape to use. There is special harness tape, which is just the plastic, without the adhesive. It works much better in this situation than electrical tape. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Michael Lye, On 7/1/2010 1:41 PM: > Most of the eledtrical tape I've used over the years seems to use an adhesive that turns to a sticky gooey mess pretty quickly. Does anyone have recommendations for e-tape that doesn't do this? I have other kinds of PSA tapes (gaffers, blue painters, etc) that don't do this but I'm looking for a thin plastic electrical tape specifically. > > TIA > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From ronnie.day at gmail.com Thu Jul 1 12:57:51 2010 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:57:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape In-Reply-To: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> References: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> Message-ID: > Michael > Most of the eledtrical tape I've used over the years seems to use an adhesive that turns to a sticky gooey mess pretty quickly. Does anyone have recommendations for e-tape that doesn't do this? I have other kinds of PSA tapes (gaffers, blue painters, etc) that don't do this but I'm looking for a thin plastic electrical tape specifically. Michael, I remember someone on the Datsun Roadster list that had the wrap without adhesive, and I think Eastwood offers something similar. Shouldn't be too had to find. Ron From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Jul 1 13:04:41 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 14:04:41 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape In-Reply-To: References: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> Message-ID: <4C2CE6C9.3060804@hornesystemstx.com> http://www.wiringharness.com/harnesstape.htm http://www.autosparks.co.uk/index.php?cPath=125 http://www.electrotape.com/electrical-insulating-tapes/vinyl-electrical/vinyl-electrical-tapes-50.html Thusly spake Ronnie Day, On 7/1/2010 1:57 PM: >> Michael >> > > >> Most of the eledtrical tape I've used over the years seems to use an >> > adhesive that turns to a sticky gooey mess pretty quickly. Does anyone have > recommendations for e-tape that doesn't do this? I have other kinds of PSA > tapes (gaffers, blue painters, etc) that don't do this but I'm looking for a > thin plastic electrical tape specifically. > > > Michael, > > I remember someone on the Datsun Roadster list that had the wrap > without adhesive, and I think Eastwood offers something similar. > Shouldn't be too had to find. > > Ron > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jul 1 14:42:08 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:42:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape In-Reply-To: <4C2CE2E1.7090802@hornesystemstx.com> References: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> <4C2CE2E1.7090802@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <023b01cb195d$dffd3f40$9ff7bdc0$@rr.com> Just a side comment; I pulled a roll of 3M "Super 33+" electrical tape out of the drawer a few days ago, and discovered that the adhesive was no longer sticking to the original side of the tape! There were places where it would stick to the "wrong" side, but in other places it just balled up and made a mess. After pulling off roughly half of the roll looking for a piece I could use, I threw the whole thing in the trash. It may have gotten a little warm in the 6 years or so it's been in that drawer ... our weather does sometimes hit 100F and the garage is not air conditioned. But it still seems like disappointing performance for "premium" tape that sells for over 5 times the price of the cheap stuff. The cheap roll in the same drawer (and even older) wasn't a lot better, but it was usable. If you can work out how to make it work in your situation, ordinary heat shrink tubing works a whole lot better, especially if you expect it to last for awhile. I recently pulled out some wiring from my wrecked Triumph that I did nearly 20 years ago, and the heat shrink was still pliable and sound. For harnesses, I've been using the expanding nylon braid, with heat shrink to seal the ends. http://tinyurl.com/3yzdl9b -- Randall From lotuseuropa at me.com Thu Jul 1 18:07:11 2010 From: lotuseuropa at me.com (Michael Lye) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:07:11 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape In-Reply-To: <4C2CE2E1.7090802@hornesystemstx.com> References: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> <4C2CE2E1.7090802@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <28937CA2-493E-4D17-A99C-CCBDA27A0A90@me.com> Pat thanks for the suggestion. I've probably just used cheap tape in the past so I'll try the #66 and see off it works for me. Michael On Jul 1, 2010, at 2:48 PM, Pat Horne wrote: > Michael, > > Have you tried the higher end electrical tapes from 3M? I seem to remember that the cheaper the tape, the stickier it gets. I use, I believe 3M #66 tape. Most of the tape I use is outside, on RF connectors, which need to be taped waterproof. I use the self-sealing rubber tape first, followed by electrical tape, and finally liquid electrician's tape. I find the black liquid tape lasts much longer than the red stuff. I haven't had water get into my connectors in years, so something must be working! > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake Michael Lye, On 7/1/2010 1:41 PM: >> Most of the eledtrical tape I've used over the years seems to use an adhesive that turns to a sticky gooey mess pretty quickly. Does anyone have recommendations for e-tape that doesn't do this? I have other kinds of PSA tapes (gaffers, blue painters, etc) that don't do this but I'm looking for a thin plastic electrical tape specifically. >> >> TIA >> >> Michael >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com >> >> >> >> > > -- > Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 > Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 > www.hornesystemstx.com > -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From lotuseuropa at me.com Thu Jul 1 18:08:28 2010 From: lotuseuropa at me.com (Michael Lye) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:08:28 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape In-Reply-To: <4C2CE34C.60003@hornesystemstx.com> References: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> <4C2CE34C.60003@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <88C8A3AC-9A1C-4384-8D7D-1A5FCEAA28B9@me.com> That's a good guess and I am creating a new wiring harness but wasn't planning on using the adhesive tape to wrap it all. I already have some nice non-adhesive harness tape for that. I am planning on using the adhesive tape to secure the ends of the wrapping though and want something that will last, not let go or creep and not get all gummy and gooey in the future. Thanks! Michael On Jul 1, 2010, at 2:49 PM, Pat Horne wrote: > One other thing I should have included in my last post is that if you are using electrical tape to wrap a wiring harness, it is not the tape to use. There is special harness tape, which is just the plastic, without the adhesive. It works much better in this situation than electrical tape. > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake Michael Lye, On 7/1/2010 1:41 PM: >> Most of the eledtrical tape I've used over the years seems to use an adhesive that turns to a sticky gooey mess pretty quickly. Does anyone have recommendations for e-tape that doesn't do this? I have other kinds of PSA tapes (gaffers, blue painters, etc) that don't do this but I'm looking for a thin plastic electrical tape specifically. >> >> TIA >> >> Michael >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com >> >> >> >> > > -- > Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 > Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 > www.hornesystemstx.com > -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From racertod at racertodd.com Thu Jul 1 18:26:09 2010 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 17:26:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical tape In-Reply-To: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20100701172003.00be4628@mail.avvanta.com> I use Indumar's Fusion Tape: http://www.indumar.com/fusion-tape/fusion-tape-intro.html It's a silicone tape that has no adhesive. It sticks only to itself. You wrap it around an electrical connection, overlapping each turn of tape. It bonds to itself, forming a watertight, permanent seal. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 270,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 245,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From jniolon at bham.rr.com Fri Jul 2 08:27:30 2010 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:27:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] push to talk (nextel) amplifier Message-ID: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> hi guys.... and happy Independence Day... we use Nextel direct connect (push to talk) for most of our company communications... but lots of our people work in construction trailers and the signal in/out sucks... you wind up going outside to make a ptt or phone call... anyone got any plans or ideas for a 'booster' or amplifier that I can build with an external antenna and an internal pickup ????? thanks John It is not only what we do, but also what we do not do, for which we are accountable. Jean Baptiste Moliere From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jul 2 10:08:46 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 12:08:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] push to talk (nextel) amplifier In-Reply-To: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> References: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:27 AM, john niolon wrote: > hi guys.... and happy Independence Day... > > we use Nextel direct connect (push to talk) for most of our company > communications... but lots of our people work in construction trailers and the > signal in/out sucks... you wind up going outside to make a ptt or phone > call... > > anyone got any plans or ideas for a 'booster' or amplifier that I can build > with an external antenna and an internal pickup ????? > Willing to spend $500 to $1000 a site? If so, you can get an active booster, which consists of a fixed outside antenna (directional, if you need that, pointed at the best line of sight tower), an inside antenna, and a bi-directional amp to link the two together. The antennas are easy; the amp is hard (and if you could build it, you wouldn't be asking us.). There are perfectly good commercial products to do this. (And, unrelated to the technical problems, the cellular companies are working very hard to get them banned, so they can rent them to you at exorbitant prices.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From shop at justbrits.com Fri Jul 2 10:10:57 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 11:10:57 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] push to talk (nextel) amplifier In-Reply-To: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> References: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4C2E0F91.8010700@justbrits.com> << anyone got any plans or ideas for a 'booster' or amplifier that I can build with an external antenna and an internal pickup ????? >> HeeHee John, this is EXACTLY the correct place/situation for Honest-to-God Commercial two-way radio and NOT cell which are power restricted by Law. Even tho [and especially Sprint] cell ARE basically just two-way radios. !! Situation dependent, a repeater w/external roof TEMP/knock- down Antenna and some 3-watt [maybe even 5-watt] portables would be just the ticket. The portable WOULD be able to [still] PTT to either folks in/around site/trailer as well as [distant dependent] your Office [which could utilize either "base stations" - cheaper or portables]. Any further, please write me direct and I'll what I CAN do for you. Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com [with LOTS of 1st time offers for Listers in the For Sale areas which ARE soon to go to fleabay -:(.] From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri Jul 2 10:25:29 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 11:25:29 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] push to talk (nextel) amplifier In-Reply-To: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> References: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4C2E12F9.4080700@hornesystemstx.com> John, Back in the days of AM car radios in the Los Angeles area there were several tunnels where driver's would loose reception while inside. All the city did to fix this was to string an insulated wire down the length of the tunnels, with a good length of wire outside. If you can find out what frequencies the phone/ptt uses, you can try a piece of wire for an antenna outside the trailer with a piece of coax running into the trailer, then another antenna inside. This will help some, but as to whether it will be enough depends on a lot of variables. Peace, Pat Thusly spake john niolon, On 7/2/2010 9:27 AM: > hi guys.... and happy Independence Day... > > we use Nextel direct connect (push to talk) for most of our company > communications... but lots of our people work in construction trailers and the > signal in/out sucks... you wind up going outside to make a ptt or phone > call... > > anyone got any plans or ideas for a 'booster' or amplifier that I can build > with an external antenna and an internal pickup ????? > > thanks > John > > > > It is not only what we do, > but also what we do not do, > for which we are accountable. > Jean Baptiste Moliere > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From strovato at optonline.net Fri Jul 2 18:33:45 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:33:45 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer ramps In-Reply-To: <4C2E12F9.4080700@hornesystemstx.com> References: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> <4C2E12F9.4080700@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <0L4Y0041DHND7UH0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I have an auto transport trailer with ramps that I would like to improve. Here's how it looks now: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J_5JK_VOQ5cVahfXWfX7IQ?feat=directlink The first thing I would like to do is add a flat surface to the ramps, as going up and down over the cross pieces is a pain. I was thinking of adding some expanded steel to make the ramps look more like these: http://www.pacwesttrailers.com/PW144498_6.jpg So, the question is, expanded steel comes in various gauges, diamond sizes, etc. The trailer can theoretically carry 5000 lbs. Does anyone know what kind of expanded steel it would take to handle that sort of use and stay flat? Second issue is that the ramps sit on the back edge of the trailer just by having a downward facing steel angle on the ramp and a channel at the edge of the deck. Nothing keeps the ramps from sliding left or right in the channel. I think perhaps I can drill some holes and drop a bolt through both pieces to keep that from happening. I'd rather not have extra loose pieces, but if I weld a pin onto the ramp I don't think it will fit in the carrier under the trailer for storage. Any other ideas? Thanks. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri Jul 2 19:19:28 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:19:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer ramps In-Reply-To: <0L4Y0041DHND7UH0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> <4C2E12F9.4080700@hornesystemstx.com> <0L4Y0041DHND7UH0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4C2E9020.4030401@hornesystemstx.com> Steve, How about drilling holes in the angle at the back and using bolts to lock the ramps in place. That way you can move the ramps in and out as needed. To keep track of the bolts, weld a small chain to them and the other end to the trailer or ramp. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Steven Trovato, On 7/2/2010 7:33 PM: > > Second issue is that the ramps sit on the back edge of the trailer > just by having a downward facing steel angle on the ramp and a channel > at the edge of the deck. Nothing keeps the ramps from sliding left or > right in the channel. I think perhaps I can drill some holes and drop > a bolt through both pieces to keep that from happening. I'd rather > not have extra loose pieces, but if I weld a pin onto the ramp I don't > think it will fit in the carrier under the trailer for storage. Any > other ideas? Thanks. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From strovato at optonline.net Fri Jul 2 19:40:04 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:40:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer ramps In-Reply-To: <4C2E9020.4030401@hornesystemstx.com> References: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> <4C2E12F9.4080700@hornesystemstx.com> <0L4Y0041DHND7UH0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4C2E9020.4030401@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <0L4Y0078BKPDWOB0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Yes, I think that's what I was considering. One of the other things I'm trying to do is eliminate as much of the rattling as possible. I think bolts on chains might go against that goal. At 09:19 PM 7/2/2010, Pat Horne wrote: >How about drilling holes in the angle at the back and using bolts to >lock the ramps in place. That way you can move the ramps in and out as needed. > >To keep track of the bolts, weld a small chain to them and the other >end to the trailer or ramp. > >Peace, >Pat From strovato at optonline.net Fri Jul 2 21:12:57 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 23:12:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer ramps In-Reply-To: <04583D1E0B5A4B408B144ABFD51739C7@Dell9200> References: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> <4C2E12F9.4080700@hornesystemstx.com> <0L4Y0041DHND7UH0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <04583D1E0B5A4B408B144ABFD51739C7@Dell9200> Message-ID: <0L4Y00CWYOYQM4O0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Thanks Mark. I automatically cringe at the thought of dissimilar metals, but I suppose in an application like this nothing disastrous will happen. I have no idea what the comparative weights actually are, but expanded metal is much lighter than solid steel. The clamp idea has potential. I'm not sure just what you're using. I guess I'll have to check out the clamps on my next trip to HD. Thanks. -Steve At 10:28 PM 7/2/2010, Mark wrote: >I have aluminum diamond plate about 1/8 thick riveted to the ramps and it >works good. I have 6 foot ramps that I had to have for a Healey 100, they >would be really heavy with steel anything. > >My trailer is built like yours with just the channel on ramps and rear of >the trailer. I found that the small quick release wood clamps from Home >Depot put enough pressure down on the channel that they don't lift or slide. >I put the long side down toward the road and the top only sticks up about an >inch and works fine. > >Mark >Nashville From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri Jul 2 21:54:58 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2010 22:54:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer ramps In-Reply-To: <0L4Y0078BKPDWOB0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> <4C2E12F9.4080700@hornesystemstx.com> <0L4Y0041DHND7UH0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4C2E9020.4030401@hornesystemstx.com> <0L4Y0078BKPDWOB0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4C2EB492.9040208@hornesystemstx.com> How about spring loaded pins then. I'm thinking about the type that is used to secure a trailer tongue jack either vertical or horizontal. Or these:http://www.tractorsupply.com/agriculture-farming-ranching/3-point-hitch-parts/lock-pins/lock-pin-sw-pack-1833537 Peace, Pat Thusly spake Steven Trovato, On 7/2/2010 8:40 PM: > Yes, I think that's what I was considering. One of the other things > I'm trying to do is eliminate as much of the rattling as possible. I > think bolts on chains might go against that goal. > > At 09:19 PM 7/2/2010, Pat Horne wrote: >> How about drilling holes in the angle at the back and using bolts to >> lock the ramps in place. That way you can move the ramps in and out >> as needed. >> >> To keep track of the bolts, weld a small chain to them and the other >> end to the trailer or ramp. >> >> Peace, >> Pat > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From shop at justbrits.com Sat Jul 3 12:42:26 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 13:42:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer ramps Message-ID: <4C2F8492.10400@justbrits.com> << I think bolts on chains might go against that goal. >> Not if you run the chains thru rubber [or whatever] hose[s], Steve !!! Age old "cure" usually used on trailer-to-tow vehicle. And I am curious, how in the world would you hear SMALL bolt chains at the REAR of a trailer whilst in motion ?? You can hear a pin-drop at 50 feet ??? LOL Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com [with LOTS of 1st time offers for Listers in the For Sale areas which ARE soon to go to fleabay -:(.] From strovato at optonline.net Sat Jul 3 15:17:37 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 17:17:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] trailer ramps In-Reply-To: <4C2F8492.10400@justbrits.com> References: <4C2F8492.10400@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <0L5000E6J35DGF80@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Yes, you're right. The ramps themselves rattle around in their carrier and I definitely hear that in motion. I guess working on that has just sensitized me to avoid "loose stuff". I'm going to go check my taillights now. I think one of the bulbs is loose and I hear it rattling. :-) -Steve At 02:42 PM 7/3/2010, Shop at \" Just Brits \" wrote: >Not if you run the chains thru rubber [or whatever] hose[s], >Steve !!! Age old "cure" usually used on trailer-to-tow >vehicle. > >And I am curious, how in the world would you hear SMALL >bolt chains at the REAR of a trailer whilst in motion ?? >You can hear a pin-drop at 50 feet ??? LOL From darmstrong at nexicom.net Sun Jul 4 07:46:35 2010 From: darmstrong at nexicom.net (Doug Armstrong) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:46:35 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] push to talk (nextel) amplifier In-Reply-To: <53E95074163F44F996CB5293E87B7D65@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <201007041346.o64DkYTL026228@smtp.nexicom.net> Our company recently rented a warehouse for a short term & didn't want to install a land line. The couple of guys there used cell phones, but the reception was poor. I bought a cell phone booster for a car... a 6" aerial with an adhesive backed block. A similar block attaches to the inside of the window. We installed it on a window near the middle of the warehouse. It worked well. Here is an example: http://cgi.ebay.ca/CELL-PHONE-SIGNAL-BOOSTER-ANTENNA-YOUR-CAR-HOME-/40013376 3949?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item5d29d4b36d or item # 400133763949 Doug Armstrong -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:28 AM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] push to talk (nextel) amplifier hi guys.... and happy Independence Day... we use Nextel direct connect (push to talk) for most of our company communications... but lots of our people work in construction trailers and the signal in/out sucks... you wind up going outside to make a ptt or phone call... anyone got any plans or ideas for a 'booster' or amplifier that I can build with an external antenna and an internal pickup ????? thanks John It is not only what we do, but also what we do not do, for which we are accountable. Jean Baptiste Moliere _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darmstrong at nexicom.net From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sun Jul 4 09:45:01 2010 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 11:45:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question Message-ID: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> I vaguely recall that this was maybe discussed recently but that doesn't mean I paid attention or remember the answers... I am planning to fly to Houston, TX and drive a used car home to North Carolina. (1981 Alfa Romeo GTV-6). I paid an Alfa-experienced mechanic in Houston to do a pre-purchase inspection and the car has been deemed in good shape and road-worthy. So, here's my question: I'd like to take a few tools with me - wrenches, screwdrivers, volt-ohm meter, spare fuses, etc. Will TSA fuss at me if I want to take these in a carry-on bag? My alternate plan is to box them up and mail them to the seller. Or stop at Sears and buy what I might need before leaving Houston. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 10:30:11 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:30:11 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Eric J Russell wrote: > I vaguely recall that this was maybe discussed recently but that doesn't mean > I paid attention or remember the answers... > > I am planning to fly to Houston, TX and drive a used car home to North > Carolina. (1981 Alfa Romeo GTV-6). I paid an Alfa-experienced mechanic in > Houston to do a pre-purchase inspection and the car has been deemed in good > shape and road-worthy. > > So, here's my question: I'd like to take a few tools with me - wrenches, > screwdrivers, volt-ohm meter, spare fuses, etc. Will TSA fuss at me if I want > to take these in a carry-on bag? In theory, no, as long as they meet certain size criteria, which I forget (less than six inches, I think, but don't rmember). In reality, almost certainly, particularly things like screwdrivers, which look like knives. Check a bag, ship them, buy new on arrival. shipping a box would also let you put in some parts that would impossilbe to source on the road. (Radiator hoses, for instance.) I know nothing about these cars, but I suspect they've got commonly failing bits that cause most roadside breakdowns; most cars do. > > My alternate plan is to box them up and mail them to the seller. Or stop at > Sears and buy what I might need before leaving Houston. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation B $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dmscheidt at gmail.com > > -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mark at bradakis.com Sun Jul 4 10:46:31 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 10:46:31 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <4C30BAE7.70900@bradakis.com> Yes, TSA will have a fit if you try to carry on screwdrivers. I don't know what your current tool inventory might be, but this might be a good time to purchase, in Houston, one of those tool kits (metric, of course) to just leave in the Alfa. mjb. From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Sun Jul 4 11:06:51 2010 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (gerry brazil) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 13:06:51 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <5866AB60F61A488FA77E78D5FD0914D3@Digilink1> If you would have bought a British car you wouldn't have this decision to make.......you would just have the car shipped because nobody in their right mind would think of driving a Brit from TX to NC.....;-) -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Eric J Russell Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 11:45 AM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question I vaguely recall that this was maybe discussed recently but that doesn't mean I paid attention or remember the answers... I am planning to fly to Houston, TX and drive a used car home to North Carolina. (1981 Alfa Romeo GTV-6). I paid an Alfa-experienced mechanic in Houston to do a pre-purchase inspection and the car has been deemed in good shape and road-worthy. So, here's my question: I'd like to take a few tools with me - wrenches, screwdrivers, volt-ohm meter, spare fuses, etc. Will TSA fuss at me if I want to take these in a carry-on bag? My alternate plan is to box them up and mail them to the seller. Or stop at Sears and buy what I might need before leaving Houston. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com From arobs at u.washington.edu Sun Jul 4 11:41:06 2010 From: arobs at u.washington.edu (Andrew Roberts) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jul 2010, Eric J Russell wrote: > So, here's my question: I'd like to take a few tools with me - wrenches, > screwdrivers, volt-ohm meter, spare fuses, etc. Will TSA fuss at me if I want > to take these in a carry-on bag? More than fuss, unless the wrenches and screwdrivers are all shorter than 7 in. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm#7 >From personal experience, a sea water hydrometer (http://wardsci.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_IG0009375) isn't a "tool", it's an "instrument". There aren't any prohibitions on meters, fuses, and other electronic bits insofar as they aren't bomb components, but don't expect the screeners to know the difference between a power supply and an altitude trigger. Congrats on the new car; have a fun drive back to NC. Andrew Roberts From pat at hornesystemstx.com Sun Jul 4 11:41:35 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 12:41:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <4C30C7CF.7070302@hornesystemstx.com> Eric, TSA will not like the screwdrivers at least. Either check with their web site, or take the stuff to a local airport and see what they say. Paying for new stuff in Houston would cost you more than what the airline will charge for a checked bag. (I had to control myself with that last sentence, buying new stuff when you don't need it is a man's duty)! Peace, Pat Thusly spake Eric J Russell, On 7/4/2010 10:45 AM: > I vaguely recall that this was maybe discussed recently but that doesn't mean > I paid attention or remember the answers... > > I am planning to fly to Houston, TX and drive a used car home to North > Carolina. (1981 Alfa Romeo GTV-6). I paid an Alfa-experienced mechanic in > Houston to do a pre-purchase inspection and the car has been deemed in good > shape and road-worthy. > > So, here's my question: I'd like to take a few tools with me - wrenches, > screwdrivers, volt-ohm meter, spare fuses, etc. Will TSA fuss at me if I want > to take these in a carry-on bag? > > My alternate plan is to box them up and mail them to the seller. Or stop at > Sears and buy what I might need before leaving Houston. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From 3000mk3 at bighealey.org Sun Jul 4 12:50:55 2010 From: 3000mk3 at bighealey.org (tom mitchell) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <5866AB60F61A488FA77E78D5FD0914D3@Digilink1> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <5866AB60F61A488FA77E78D5FD0914D3@Digilink1> Message-ID: <000001cb1ba9$d69764a0$83c62de0$@org> I guess I am not in my right mind, because I would drive British car anywhere in a heartbeat Tom Mitchell Ann Arbor, Michigan 1965 Austin Healey BJ8 MK3 -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of gerry brazil Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 1:07 PM To: 'Eric J Russell'; 'shop-talk' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question If you would have bought a British car you wouldn't have this decision to make.......you would just have the car shipped because nobody in their right mind would think of driving a Brit from TX to NC.....;-) -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Eric J Russell Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 11:45 AM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question I vaguely recall that this was maybe discussed recently but that doesn't mean I paid attention or remember the answers... I am planning to fly to Houston, TX and drive a used car home to North Carolina. (1981 Alfa Romeo GTV-6). I paid an Alfa-experienced mechanic in Houston to do a pre-purchase inspection and the car has been deemed in good shape and road-worthy. So, here's my question: I'd like to take a few tools with me - wrenches, screwdrivers, volt-ohm meter, spare fuses, etc. Will TSA fuss at me if I want to take these in a carry-on bag? My alternate plan is to box them up and mail them to the seller. Or stop at Sears and buy what I might need before leaving Houston. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/3000mk3 at bighealey.org From tputland at charter.net Sun Jul 4 13:17:11 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:17:11 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <20100704151711.5CPVA.8462205.root@mp19> When I was a computer tech working in various class II and class III casinos around the country, it was simply easiest to check a suitcase/bag with my tool bag in it. They always went through my suitcase behind the scenes and even went so far as to open my briefcase type tool bag to check inside but I never had any issues with my tools checked with a suitcase. I am pretty sure you won't be able to bring any tools onto the plane in a carry on bag. Someone said if the piece was less than seven inches it would be ok. Where did this come from? Is this a new "relaxation" in the rules? Tim ---- Eric J Russell wrote: ============= I vaguely recall that this was maybe discussed recently but that doesn't mean I paid attention or remember the answers... I am planning to fly to Houston, TX and drive a used car home to North Carolina. (1981 Alfa Romeo GTV-6). I paid an Alfa-experienced mechanic in Houston to do a pre-purchase inspection and the car has been deemed in good shape and road-worthy. So, here's my question: I'd like to take a few tools with me - wrenches, screwdrivers, volt-ohm meter, spare fuses, etc. Will TSA fuss at me if I want to take these in a carry-on bag? My alternate plan is to box them up and mail them to the seller. Or stop at Sears and buy what I might need before leaving Houston. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tputland at charter.net From shiples at comcast.net Sun Jul 4 13:38:03 2010 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 12:38:03 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <4C30C7CF.7070302@hornesystemstx.com> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20100704123036.04122770@mail.comcast.net> >>So, here's my question: I'd like to take a few tools with me - wrenches, >>screwdrivers, volt-ohm meter, spare fuses, etc. Will TSA fuss at me if I want >>to take these in a carry-on bag? >> >>My alternate plan is to box them up and mail them to the seller. Or stop at >>Sears and buy what I might need before leaving Houston. It's been my experience that any tool or replacement part carried in the car will not be needed. I'd recommend a cell phone, a credit card, and a cooler full of food and beverage. If a breakdown means a pleasant interlude with a cool drink and a good book waiting for Alfisti with a trailer, you won't have a problem. Even in the unlikely event you have one. When looking up the spelling for alfisti, it appears that you can find some Alfisti on Facebook though I doubt they'll all have trailers. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sun Jul 4 14:30:49 2010 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:30:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <4C30BAE7.70900@bradakis.com> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <4C30BAE7.70900@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the many replies. Confirms what I assumed - tools in carry-on are likely to be frowned upon (assuming TSA has emotions). The more I thunk about it the more I realize that buying a few tools in Houston is the best answer. It meets the genetic drive for buying more tools, I will want a few basic tools in the car anyway (as if one needed an excuse to buy tools...), I won't have to pay to mail my tools which satisfies my frugal (OK, cheap) genes, and no worries about frowning TSA agents. As for driving British cars - we have driven our MGB all over North Carolina and taken it to Watkins Glen, NY & Massachusetts a few times. However, that was all done after I rebuilt it - engine, clutch, brakes, new battery, etc. Does that make me partially crazy? Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From ronnie.day at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 14:37:45 2010 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:37:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <000001cb1ba9$d69764a0$83c62de0$@org> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <5866AB60F61A488FA77E78D5FD0914D3@Digilink1> <000001cb1ba9$d69764a0$83c62de0$@org> Message-ID: A discussion about a "road trip toolkit" pops up on the Datsun Roadster list periodically and the first things mentioned are a cell phone and a AAA (or similar) auto club card. In all honesty I think both are essential. Living in central Texas (roughly 90 miles NE of Austin) we've had the AAA Premier membership since they started offering it here several years ago. Being where we are and with family in both San Antonio and DFW, the 200 mile tows included have come in handy often enough to pay for the $150/year that level of membership costs. It's not been frequent, but you don't want to have to pay for a long tow out of pocket. As far as tools are concerned, I buy a basic set of hand tools ($30 or so) at a Home Depot or Lowes in Houston along with a electrical kit that includes the correct style of fuses for the Alfa, various crimping connectors and 20 ft of both red and black 12 gauge wire. If you don't already have a got set of ratcheting crimpers, I bought a nice set with interchangeable jaws at a local O'Reilly's for around $30. I'd also buy an assortment of middle sized to larger tie wraps, and an inexpensive DVO meter. The last two you can get at a Harbor Freight. When they opened their store in Temple, where we work, they had their $10 unit on for $1.99. I bought a bag full. It and other models are often in the HF sale flyer. You might want to buy a cheap plastic tool box to put all of this in, too. I doubt the TSA will let you fly with this stuff, but you might be able to put it in a checked bag. Just in case they decide to question you about all of this stuff, I'd have some documentation about you buying the car ready to show them. Have fun with your new toy. They're really nice cars. Let us know how the trip goes when you get home. Ron From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 4 15:25:24 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:25:24 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <20100704151711.5CPVA.8462205.root@mp19> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <20100704151711.5CPVA.8462205.root@mp19> Message-ID: <029001cb1bbf$6a76b8a0$0301a8c0@randall> > but > I never had any issues with my tools checked with a suitcase. It apparently depends on the luck of the draw ... I once had a very few tools in my suitcase that apparently frightened the X-ray operator. Laying loose, maybe they looked like a gun or bomb. They made me open the suitcase and show them the tools, then quickly hustled me aboard the plane after it was obvious they were harmless. This was before the Twin Towers attack, so they may not be so forgiving these days. Randall From gsteve at hammatt.com Sun Jul 4 15:32:38 2010 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:32:38 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears......on sale Message-ID: <802F2748AA844D7AB318603C03242B58@DesktopPC> Just left Sears with a fill-in wrench that somehow came up missing in my tool box. Noticed that they had all sorts of socket holders on sale, including the color coded plastic holders with the posts, these were around $10 each. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 4 15:38:21 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:38:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <5866AB60F61A488FA77E78D5FD0914D3@Digilink1> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <5866AB60F61A488FA77E78D5FD0914D3@Digilink1> Message-ID: <029501cb1bc1$3986ba40$0301a8c0@randall> > you would just have the car shipped because nobody > in their right > mind would think of driving a Brit from TX to NC.....;-) Guess I'm in my left mind then, because I've done it not once but twice! First time from Houston to Los Angeles (farther than Houston to Raleigh) in a TR3 that had literally been sitting in a cornfield. That time I did have a chase car (but it was the one that broke down 50 miles from the nearest exit). Second time I bought a Stag no less, in OK and drove it to CA. I could write a book about that trip ... but in reality it was a lot of fun. Even the 4 hours or so I spent in a Wal-Mart parking lot, alternately buying tools and trying to free up the locked rear brakes. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 4 15:41:16 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:41:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <029601cb1bc1$a1cc25e0$0301a8c0@randall> > shipping a box would also let you put in some parts that would > impossilbe to source on the road. Oops, forgot to mention, I was given a lot of grief over a checked box full of used car parts. They weren't going to let the fuel pump go on the plane, until I got it out of the box and had a supervisor sniff it to determine there was NO fuel odor. Randall From mdporter at dfn.com Sun Jul 4 16:08:38 2010 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 16:08:38 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <029001cb1bbf$6a76b8a0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <20100704151711.5CPVA.8462205.root@mp19> <029001cb1bbf$6a76b8a0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4C310666.7010706@dfn.com> Randall wrote: >> but >> I never had any issues with my tools checked with a suitcase. >> > > It apparently depends on the luck of the draw ... I once had a very few > tools in my suitcase that apparently frightened the X-ray operator. Laying > loose, maybe they looked like a gun or bomb. They made me open the suitcase > and show them the tools, then quickly hustled me aboard the plane after it > was obvious they were harmless. > > I once brought along some tools on a visit to Michigan, because my kid said she was having some trouble with the car she then owned (and which she'd gotten resolved before I arrived and didn't let me know), and one of the things in the carry-on bag was a timing light, which might have looked in an x-ray like a gun to the untrained eye. Thinking it was better to let them know _before_ they x-rayed the bag, I voluntarily opened the bag and showed it to them, in order to explain to them what it was. I was a little surprised when they absolutely freaked out--because they thought it _was_ some sort of gun. Can't win for losin'. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 16:28:55 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:28:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <000001cb1ba9$d69764a0$83c62de0$@org> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <5866AB60F61A488FA77E78D5FD0914D3@Digilink1> <000001cb1ba9$d69764a0$83c62de0$@org> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 2:50 PM, tom mitchell <3000mk3 at bighealey.org> wrote: > I guess I am not in my right mind, because I would drive British car > anywhere in a heartbeat > About 15 years ago, I flew from chicago to LA, bought a Land-Rover (totally sight unseen! I'd had a friend examine it, but I hadn't seen a picture of it, this before digital cameras were common), jumped in, and drove home. Had no mechanical problems, even though I chose the hottest week of the year to do it. Drove directly from the highway into work, because of some crisis. Broke down on the way home. (Very, very funny breakdown: the radiator bypass hose sprang a very small leak, and shot a stream of water up and backwards. It hit the bonnet, directly above the distributor, and dripped on it, causing a stall. Fix to get home was simply wipe things dry, tie rag to hose to keep the coolant from hititing the bonnet. A reason rags are better than paper towels!) I had a spare (came with the truck); had it happened on the road, I'd've installed it. I'm only rarely accused of being in my right mind, though. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From ronnie.day at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 17:25:11 2010 From: ronnie.day at gmail.com (Ronnie Day) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:25:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fly-n-drive question In-Reply-To: <4C310666.7010706@dfn.com> References: <3E125722356E437180EFC8EB8EBA6FCD@EricJRussellPC> <20100704151711.5CPVA.8462205.root@mp19> <029001cb1bbf$6a76b8a0$0301a8c0@randall> <4C310666.7010706@dfn.com> Message-ID: Forgot to mention that (guessing this toy has no A/C) you'll probably want to pic up some flavor of thin seat cushion that lets air flow between you and the seat. I've use one these days (I think purchased at Wal-Mart, but all auto supplies carry them) during warm/hot weather in Texas in my Datsun Roadster, as we did in our original '71 510. A/C was a dealer installed option back then, and for some reason we didn't get it. Surprising since the reason we bought the 510 was that my wife was far enough along with our oldest that she was WAY uncomfortable in the 2000.. Probably didn't think we could afford it. IIRC, we paid $2250 for the car and our payments were $73/month. FWIW, Ron From dhlocker at comcast.net Sun Jul 4 18:26:11 2010 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 00:26:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications Message-ID: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hello, shop-talkers Anyone have a suggestion for a short-range communicator? I'd really like to have a 20yd (20 metre) range of a low-power, low-bandwidth radio so my wife and I can talk occasionally while riding bikes. FRS and walkie-talkie equipment is great, but I really don't need 5 mile range with $200 price. Voice activated, short range, lightweight. Might also be useful for the LBC chase car :) or house to shop communications! Donald. -- "Plain Text" email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ ascii ribbon campaign - From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 4 19:07:47 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:07:47 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications In-Reply-To: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <02fe01cb1bde$7be70b20$0301a8c0@randall> > FRS and walkie-talkie equipment is > great, but I really don't need 5 mile range with $200 price. Target currently has a pair of FRS radios on sale for $30/pair. http://tinyurl.com/2ug6ktl Can't get much below that without going to "toy" grade ... which might be an option. http://tinyurl.com/39wzjud Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 19:23:34 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 21:23:34 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications In-Reply-To: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Donald H Locker wrote: > Hello, shop-talkers > > Anyone have a suggestion for a short-range communicator? B I'd really like to have a 20yd (20 metre) range of a low-power, low-bandwidth radio so my wife and I can talk occasionally while riding bikes. B FRS and walkie-talkie equipment is great, but I really don't need 5 mile range with $200 price. B Voice activated, short range, lightweight. B Might also be useful for the LBC chase car :) or house to shop communications! > Have you looked at what FRS radios actually cost in the 21st century? You can get a pair of them, including a charging base, batteries, etc, for $25. A totally random example: http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-CXT90-2-Way-Rechargeable-Operation/dp/B001RHS8IQ -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From ericm at lne.com Sun Jul 4 19:30:33 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:30:33 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications In-Reply-To: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20100705013033.GB13712@slack> On Mon, Jul 05, 2010 at 12:26:11AM +0000, Donald H Locker wrote: > Hello, shop-talkers > > Anyone have a suggestion for a short-range communicator? I'd really like to have a 20yd (20 metre) range of a low-power, low-bandwidth radio so my wife and I can talk occasionally while riding bikes. FRS and walkie-talkie equipment is great, but I really don't need 5 mile range with $200 price. Voice activated, short range, lightweight. Might also be useful for the LBC chase car :) or house to shop communications! You can get Midland FRS/GMRS for $20 for two from Amazon and a bunch of other places. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=midland+gmrs+radios&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=6334509067361511150&ei=nDQxTLKEGZShnQen39CkCg&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEMQ8wIwAw# I've used other FRS radios and they work well for keeping in touch at sporting events. For riding bikes together, I just ride with the other person and talk to them like normal. Just go single file when the road's narrow and there's traffic. The rider in front points out road obstacles and signals stops. Eric From dhlocker at comcast.net Sun Jul 4 19:55:20 2010 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 01:55:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications In-Reply-To: <437258389.716411278294868804.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <945144738.716541278294920023.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Thank you Eric and David I guess I haven't looked in the right places. Back to the mall :) and the Amazon Thanks, Donald. -- "Plain Text" email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ ascii ribbon campaign - ----- "Donald H Locker" wrote: > From: "Donald H Locker" > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Sent: Sunday, July 4, 2010 8:26:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications > > Hello, shop-talkers > > Anyone have a suggestion for a short-range communicator? I'd really > like to have a 20yd (20 metre) range of a low-power, low-bandwidth > radio so my wife and I can talk occasionally while riding bikes. FRS > and walkie-talkie equipment is great, but I really don't need 5 mile > range with $200 price. Voice activated, short range, lightweight. > Might also be useful for the LBC chase car :) or house to shop > communications! > > Donald. > -- > "Plain Text" email -- it's an accessibility issue > () no proprietary attachments; no html mail > /\ ascii ribbon campaign - > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhlocker at comcast.net From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sun Jul 4 20:08:03 2010 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 22:08:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications In-Reply-To: <02fe01cb1bde$7be70b20$0301a8c0@randall> References: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <02fe01cb1bde$7be70b20$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <1AB6540152B74D1B94750257DBF50F76@EricJRussellPC> Why not get the pink ones? http://www.target.com/Hello-Kitty-Family-Service-Communicators/dp/B00097E820/ref=sc_pd_gwvub_3_title Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" > Target currently has a pair of FRS radios on sale for $30/pair. > http://tinyurl.com/2ug6ktl From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jul 4 21:14:40 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 23:14:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications In-Reply-To: <945144738.716541278294920023.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <437258389.716411278294868804.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <945144738.716541278294920023.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Donald H Locker wrote: > Thank you Eric and David > > I guess I haven't looked in the right places. B Back to the mall :) and the Amazon > I bought my first FRS radio in 1998 or so, and got a replacement a couple years ago. I was shocked at how cheap they'd gotten. Of course, making them in China, and not Chicago saves a whole bunch, but still. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From shop at justbrits.com Sun Jul 4 21:53:23 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 22:53:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications In-Reply-To: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1259459086.702051278289571586.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4C315733.5020106@justbrits.com> A quick and very cursory search Don, did NOT yield........ << Voice activated,... >> and I seriously doubt you WILL find, especially in the price/ model range. Cheap is as cheap goes or something like that !! Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com [with LOTS of 1st time offers for Listers in the For Sale areas which ARE soon to go to fleabay -:(.] From tvacc at lotusowners.com Sun Jul 4 22:09:37 2010 From: tvacc at lotusowners.com (Tony Vaccaro) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 00:09:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications In-Reply-To: <17BDF688283147DB8E0E14F6ED74E022@amicroinc.local> References: <17BDF688283147DB8E0E14F6ED74E022@amicroinc.local> Message-ID: <07F875B543B94D26B9462B37685BB740@amicroinc.local> I can give you my experiences. The LOONYs all have settled on these: Midland X-Tra Talk GXT950VP4 Two Way Radio (or a range that is like 20 mile and above) you can get these for like $70 for 2. I then went to buy.com and searched for some cheap gaming headsets. I think they were Planatronics. I cut off one side of the ear speakers so that you are only wearing one speaker/ear thing. I made the mics longer by modifying them so that they are right in front of your mouth. Like your lips are just touching them. Covered the mics with foam. That is the only way the mics work. I found like 20 of them on buy.com and set them all up the same way and sold them to the LOONYs for $20 each, just what they cost. I am sure you can find something similar. We all use them. Good from car to car within sighting distance. They say like 26 and 30 mile, but we only get about a mile out of them in ordinary use on Sunday morns and on our Lotus drives. For use in my Seven which is loud, probably like a cycle, I got some ear plug ear phones from Sony. I use just one of them in one ear. Works great. I can tell when someone is calling me, but I sometimes have to push the plugs in my ear to hear what they are saying. If you bought some really good fitting earphone plugs...you probably would be fine. Tony Vaccaro LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York) www.lotusowners.com 716-861-1412 This document and any files or e-mail messages attached to it contain data or information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise restricted from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the data or information contained herein or in any of the attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document or transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy, delete or erase this document and all attachments. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Donald H Locker Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 9:01 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] short range communications Hello, shop-talkers Anyone have a suggestion for a short-range communicator? I'd really like to have a 20yd (20 metre) range of a low-power, low-bandwidth radio so my wife and I can talk occasionally while riding bikes. FRS and walkie-talkie equipment is great, but I really don't need 5 mile range with $200 price. Voice activated, short range, lightweight. Might also be useful for the LBC chase car :) or house to shop communications! Donald. -- "Plain Text" email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ ascii ribbon campaign - _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tvacc at lotusowners.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5251 (20100704) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5251 (20100704) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From mbarre at juno.com Mon Jul 5 17:49:01 2010 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:49:01 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] fiberglass repair Message-ID: <20100705.194901.12542.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> I picked up an older Tigershark PWC project and after a few days of cleaning & tinkering, took it out this weekend and the kids had a blast with it. I'll consider it a successful shakedown, but now I have a punch list to work off. The only item I don't have a good grasp on is a little hull repair. It looks like where the bottom of the left side of the hull forms a chine was run up on something and took some damage - I believe it is leaking into the engine compartment (it was dripping from there when I pulled the PWC out of the water on the trailer but before I pulled the plug... My fiberglass experience consists of resining in some cloth over a rusty boot bottom, but this looks a little more involved. I understand the need to grind down to sound material, but how should I replicate the chine edge. While I was shopping for a can of resin and some cloth I spied a 3m product next to the bondo called "fiberglass jelly". It looked like it is a fiberglass based form of bondo. I believe I could easily replicate the hull shape with that but am not sure of how strong it would be. Any suggestions? TIA! Matt in Columbus GA ____________________________________________________________ Free Credit Score A bad credit score is below 598. Click here to see yours for $0. Checking won't affect your score. By Experian® http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c326f8eea1bb1b2d60st02vuc From eric at megageek.com Tue Jul 6 15:34:12 2010 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:34:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] I need one of these Message-ID: I need one of these for my garage!! 8>) Note, I'm not sure it is set for the best height. BUDAPEST . Multiparker 730 Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson From shop at justbrits.com Tue Jul 6 16:46:31 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:46:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bike riding, car-to-car - short range & CHEAP...... Message-ID: <4C33B247.1010005@justbrits.com> two-way radios. For the chap that was looking for same, I just got a "eMailer" from Uniden [OLD & VERY respected brand] and I noticed THIS set-up [which I think would be purrfect & priced REALLY right]: http://www.unidendirect.com/itemdetail.cfm?item=B-GMR1838-2CK&tabid=1 OR **http://tinyurl.com/23romyd * HTHs !!! Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com [with LOTS of 1st time offers for Listers in the For Sale areas which ARE soon to go to fleabay -:(.] From pat at hornesystemstx.com Tue Jul 6 18:07:02 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:07:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] I need one of these In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C33C526.6050909@hornesystemstx.com> I'd say she is about 5'6" to 5'8". Peace, Pat Thusly spake eric at megageek.com, On 7/6/2010 4:34 PM: > I need one of these for my garage!! 8>) > > Note, I'm not sure it is set for the best height. > > > BUDAPEST . Multiparker 730 > > > Moose > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From arvidj at visi.com Wed Jul 7 07:52:31 2010 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:52:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Wanted - dead Hitachi EB12B battery pack References: <1D8FF4F0-A8CC-4980-BA9E-27391BDF48C7@me.com> <4C2CE2E1.7090802@hornesystemstx.com> <023b01cb195d$dffd3f40$9ff7bdc0$@rr.com> Message-ID: I have a Hitachi drill that I have not used for several years. I thought I would rebuild the battery packs so I ordered the batteries. The Workshop Clutter Monster seems to have eaten one of the battery packs so I now have one pack rebuilt and 10 loose batteries in need of a dead pack to put them in. If you have one, or even if you have two, let me know how much you'd want me to send you so you could ship them to Prior Lake, MN, 55372. Thanks, Arvid From doug at dougbraun.com Sat Jul 10 05:57:59 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 07:57:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Combo garage door? Message-ID: Hello, I seem to remember once seeing a combination garage door, which had a regular side-hinged door (for people) embedded within a sectional vertical-opening garage door. The regular door was clearly made of bits of several of the main sections, and bad things must surely have happened if you tried to raise the main door while the inner door was open. Does such a thing really exist, or is this just a warped memory from long ago? Doug From marka at maracing.com Sat Jul 10 07:16:08 2010 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Combo garage door? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, Douglas Braun wrote: > I seem to remember once seeing a combination garage door, which had a > regular side-hinged door (for people) embedded within a sectional > vertical-opening garage door. The regular door was clearly made of bits > of several of the main sections, and bad things must surely have > happened if you tried to raise the main door while the inner door was > open. > > Does such a thing really exist, or is this just a warped memory from > long ago? Sounds like an airplane hanger door. http://www.bifold.com/options_walk.php I don't know that I've ever seen one where the man door spanned multiple sections. Mark From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 07:57:50 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:57:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Combo garage door? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Douglas Braun wrote: > Hello, > > I seem to remember once seeing a combination garage door, which > had a regular side-hinged door (for people) embedded within a > sectional vertical-opening garage door. B The regular door was clearly > made of bits of several of the main sections, and bad things must surely > have happened if you tried to raise the main door while the inner door was open. > > Does such a thing really exist, or is this just a warped memory from long ago? > They do. the ones I quickly find in a google are from http://www.walkthrugaragedoors.com/ They seem to claim to have invented the idea in 1997, but since I first saw one before that, they couldn't have. I know not if there are other people making them, nor nothing about the product. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From shop at justbrits.com Sat Jul 10 09:02:07 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:02:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Combo garage door? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C388B6F.2060508@justbrits.com> << ...or is this just a warped memory from long ago? >> Must be that, Doug even thou - LOL - your "memory" is correct . Very common on Hanger Doors but I have seen on home double door. Expensive, I'd bet . Ed From jmitch at snet.net Sat Jul 10 15:37:08 2010 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:37:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] test Message-ID: <4C38E804.5080502@snet.net> test From mark at bradakis.com Sat Jul 10 17:15:52 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:15:52 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] test Message-ID: <20100710231552.1B8322E0F5@bradakis.com> Sorry, you flinked the test. Actually AT&T flunked the test. Here's a message I've been sendong out to some other lists as I work on getting it all back in order. mjb. Those of you who have email that gets routed in various ways through AT&T, like att.net, sbcglobal.net, pacbell, etc. Have most likely not seen any Team.Net email for a few days. For some reason AT&T was blocking Team.Net. I have no idea why, what started it, and you folks don't pay me enough to waste a day on the phone sifting through an endless stream of clueless "tech support" drones to find out why. I have gotten the block removed and am in the process of getting the effected addresses back into normal operation. Thank you for your patience. From hillman at planet-torque.com Sat Jul 10 17:29:10 2010 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] test In-Reply-To: <20100710231552.1B8322E0F5@bradakis.com> References: <20100710231552.1B8322E0F5@bradakis.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Jul 2010, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > For some reason AT&T was blocking Team.Net. I have no idea why, what > started it, and you folks don't pay me enough to waste a day on the > phone sifting through an endless stream of clueless "tech support" > drones to find out why. I would bet that someone with 'shop-talk at autox' in their address book got a virus, and unknowingly started sending out spam with faked headers showing shop-talk as the sender. This happens on a mailing list I run frequently, and there's not anything you can do to prevent it, as far as I know. -- David Hillman From shop at justbrits.com Sat Jul 10 18:25:34 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:25:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Fwd: [Spridgets] well written ad...Buick or MGB-GT? Hmmmm] Message-ID: <4C390F7E.6010609@justbrits.com> I know NOTHING other then info below and on the CL page. NFI, YMMV, FYI, yada, yada, yada !!! Ed Please visit MY site at: www.justbrits.com [with LOTS of 1st time offers for Listers in the For Sale areas which ARE soon to go to fleabay -:(.] [with MGA & MGB stuff listed ! ] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Spridgets] well written ad...Buick or MGB-GT? Hmmmm Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:41:57 -0700 (PDT) From: To: Spridgets at autox.team.net http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/1833891747.html Edward P. Snohomish, WA 78 Midget (1275) http://www.flickr.com/photos/lbc_newbie/ _______________________________________________ From doug at dougbraun.com Sat Jul 10 18:32:44 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:32:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Combo garage door? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's exactly what I had in mind! Also, now I know the correct term for it. Doug On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 9:57 AM, David Scheidt wrote: >> Does such a thing really exist, or is this just a warped memory from long ago? >> > > They do. the ones I quickly find in a google are from > http://www.walkthrugaragedoors.com/ > They seem to claim to have invented the idea in 1997, but since I > first saw one before that, they couldn't have. I know not if there > are other people making them, nor nothing about the product. From shop at justbrits.com Sat Jul 10 19:19:30 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:19:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Combo garage door? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C391C22.7020509@justbrits.com> Doug, KEEP in mind...... << Also, now I know the correct term for it. >> that that one [1] Company that claims to have invented it [and did NOT] prolly has their name for it is just that. THEIR name for it. So if you went to purchase one and specified THAT name you would be limited to their product !!! Ed From fortee9er at yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 15:13:00 2010 From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop Message-ID: <854435.43684.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I've been thinking of how best to organize my garage/shop and thought you guys probably had lots of experince in this area. I have a 3 car garage 33x23 and I will soon have have 3 cars in it. There is a raised area on one side and the back that is @ 3 ft wide. In this raised area I have my compressor, tool boxes, storage cabinets and lots of other junk. I have been thinking of having carts dedicated to a/c work, detailing/car wash, electrical...etc. Another idea is to use peg board to hold some of the gardening tools (not too much), towing straps, come-alongs, and other large hand tools that won't fit into the tool chests. What do you guys think let me know how you've organized your shop/garage. Thanks Jorge From fortee9er at yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 15:29:53 2010 From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Hydraulic Ram Kit Message-ID: <542991.78972.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I just got a 4 ton hydraulic ram kit from Harbor Freight. Since this tool is made in China I am assuming that it is a copy of a tool made somewhere else most likely the US. I'd like to find the origianl manufacturer to get any documenation (user's amnual) that came with the tool because as you probably know the user manuals that come with HF are crap. Thanks Jorge From darmstrong at nexicom.net Mon Jul 12 19:18:25 2010 From: darmstrong at nexicom.net (Doug Armstrong) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:18:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop In-Reply-To: <854435.43684.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201007130118.o6D1INS9003467@smtp.nexicom.net> I have found that wall space is usually more valuable in the future than your current plans. I bought an inexpensive gardening tool cart that is fairly compact and can be wheeled out of the way when you need the space. I did this to keep the tools off the wall or leaned up in a corner. How much room do you have above the garage doors? I have about 20". I made a shelf that went along the full length of the garage above the doors. I made the shelf 32" wide (1/3 of a 4x8 plywood sheet). If I had more height I would have oriented the plywood to have the shelf 4' wide. I made a wooden 2x4 frame tied together with metal deck hangers with 32" x 48" squares. I got a few lengths of used light / medium duty metal shelf corner angle and laid them across the roof trusses above the outside edge of the shelf. I used 3/8" threaded rod and double nuts to tie the shelf frame to the shelf corner angles. This was a clean way of going through the drywall ceiling. I installed a 2x4 sill against the wall of the garage to support the back of the shelf. It works great & didn't cost too much money. Doug Armstrong -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jorge Garcia Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 5:13 PM To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop I've been thinking of how best to organize my garage/shop and thought you guys probably had lots of experince in this area. I have a 3 car garage 33x23 and I will soon have have 3 cars in it. There is a raised area on one side and the back that is @ 3 ft wide. In this raised area I have my compressor, tool boxes, storage cabinets and lots of other junk. I have been thinking of having carts dedicated to a/c work, detailing/car wash, electrical...etc. Another idea is to use peg board to hold some of the gardening tools (not too much), towing straps, come-alongs, and other large hand tools that won't fit into the tool chests. What do you guys think let me know how you've organized your shop/garage. Thanks Jorge _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darmstrong at nexicom.net From eric at megageek.com Mon Jul 12 19:26:14 2010 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:26:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop In-Reply-To: <854435.43684.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow, is this going to open a can of worms... A few things I can say is hang up whatever you can on the walls. Cabinets and rolling tool boxes are your friends. I wouldn't make a cart of each task, as they will eat up alot of room when not in use. Instead, have one or two blank carts and just put on the tools you need to use when you need them. I have a 2500 SQFT shop and I STILL need more space!! 8>) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Jorge Garcia Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 07/12/2010 05:32 PM To Shop-talk at autox.team.net cc Subject [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop I've been thinking of how best to organize my garage/shop and thought you guys probably had lots of experince in this area. I have a 3 car garage 33x23 and I will soon have have 3 cars in it. There is a raised area on one side and the back that is @ 3 ft wide. In this raised area I have my compressor, tool boxes, storage cabinets and lots of other junk. I have been thinking of having carts dedicated to a/c work, detailing/car wash, electrical...etc. Another idea is to use peg board to hold some of the gardening tools (not too much), towing straps, come-alongs, and other large hand tools that won't fit into the tool chests. What do you guys think let me know how you've organized your shop/garage. Thanks Jorge _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From cavanadd at verizon.net Mon Jul 12 20:28:53 2010 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:28:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3BCF65.8090109@verizon.net> I feel your pain. I have 1150 and I have been out of space for some time. Unfortunately I keep buying stationary power tools, and fitting them in is better than any game of Rubic's Cube. To answer the original question, panel or otherwise finish all the walls and install about 3X as many shelves as you think you'll need. Then every five or ten years go through and reorganize, throw crap away, etc. Repeat as necessary. eric at megageek.com wrote: > I have a 2500 SQFT shop and I STILL need more space!! 8>) From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jul 13 08:28:06 2010 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:28:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop In-Reply-To: <201007130118.o6D1INS9003467@smtp.nexicom.net> Message-ID: <884385565.7404.1279031286602.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I ran a high shelf all the way around the shop just over the doors. Much of the stuff up there is in labeled boxes or tubs. If I need to get something down I just reach up and grab it. If a closer look is needed I reach up and pull down a milk case to stand on. Milk cases are also used to sit on to do wheel and brake work. Every effort is made to keep stuff off the floor. The shop is only 20 feet wide outside measure and it has two cars in it so every item on the floor adds to claustrophobia. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1973 Triumph Stag LE22439UB "uncle jack" 1979 Caterham Super Seven. FOR SALE 2004 Suburban 8.1 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier http://www.triumphtransamerica.org http://www.mnautox.com From rkg at teleport.com Tue Jul 13 08:47:39 2010 From: rkg at teleport.com (Richard George) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:47:39 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop Message-ID: <14001458.1279032459912.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Jorge, What's the ceiling height? If you got the height, you might look at getting a car stacker - these have gotten surprisingly cheap and can get you a lot of floor space if there is at least one of the vehicles you don't drive much... I'm not sure I'd do a dedicated cart for each task, but have had good luck with a workbenches and some tools on casters so you can roll them out of the way when not being used/roll them right up to where you are working. I can't help you on the yard tools as I actually built a separate space to get them out of the "real" shop (I actually store the engine hoist out there too, but that's another story). On the big hand tools, I've got some military ammo crates that seem to work pretty well for most of them - you can just label them and stack them up or shove them where you'd have trouble putting other things and you're in business... I tend not to use peg board, as it seems like a poor use of what little wall space I have (I either need the space to work or I want more "efficient" storage, like shelves). Good Luck, rkg (Richard George) 20X28 shop... -----Original Message----- >From: Jorge Garcia >Sent: Jul 12, 2010 2:13 PM >To: Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop > >I've been thinking of how best to organize my garage/shop and thought you guys probably had lots of experince in this area. I have a 3 car garage 33x23 and I will soon have have 3 cars in it. There is a raised area on one side and the back that is @ 3 ft wide. In this raised area I have my compressor, tool boxes, storage cabinets and lots of other junk. I have been thinking of having carts dedicated to a/c work, detailing/car wash, electrical...etc. Another idea is to use peg board to hold some of the gardening tools (not too much), towing straps, come-alongs, and other large hand tools that won't fit into the tool chests. >What do you guys think let me know how you've organized your shop/garage. >Thanks >Jorge >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/rkg at teleport.com From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Jul 13 08:51:34 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:51:34 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop In-Reply-To: <4C3BCF65.8090109@verizon.net> References: <4C3BCF65.8090109@verizon.net> Message-ID: Try to reduce the number of things actually resting on the floor (e.g. shelving), and try to have things that must be on the floor on casters so they can be moved. This will make it much easier to keep things clean, since you will be able to mop the entire floor without it being an all-day project. I am amazed by the amount of crap (bugs, dirt, dust wolverines, rodent droppings, etc.) that can accumulate behind and under shelves and workbenches. Doug From pat at hornesystemstx.com Tue Jul 13 09:05:08 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:05:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage/shop In-Reply-To: <854435.43684.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <854435.43684.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C3C80A4.4030705@hornesystemstx.com> As others have mentioned, I covered all the walls in my shop(20'x40') with pegboard. I still haven't made maximum use of it but keep moving things around until I get things more efficient. I also put up 2 shelves on the 2 walls with windows, one right at the top of the windows, and one about 18" higher. I have 10' ceilings, so there is plenty of room up there. There is about 4' above my overhead door where I was able to hang ladders and other oversize things that I don't use very often. I put up some hooks to hang thins on, as well as pulleys and ropes to get the stuff up and down without needing a ladder. I have 1 cart with minimum tools on it that I load up when I need to do a job. It doesn't take up much room, and it helps me keep it cleaned off so all I need to do is load it up, and not unload the junk that would be piled on it that might stay there if I had more carts to use! Peace, Pat Thusly spake Jorge Garcia, On 7/12/2010 4:13 PM: > I've been thinking of how best to organize my garage/shop and thought you guys probably had lots of experince in this area. I have a 3 car garage 33x23 and I will soon have have 3 cars in it. There is a raised area on one side and the back that is @ 3 ft wide. In this raised area I have my compressor, tool boxes, storage cabinets and lots of other junk. I have been thinking of having carts dedicated to a/c work, detailing/car wash, electrical...etc. Another idea is to use peg board to hold some of the gardening tools (not too much), towing straps, come-alongs, and other large hand tools that won't fit into the tool chests. > What do you guys think let me know how you've organized your shop/garage. > Thanks > Jorge > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From strovato at optonline.net Tue Jul 13 09:28:46 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:28:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Hydraulic Ram Kit In-Reply-To: <542991.78972.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <542991.78972.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0L5I00JW55OZ5N50@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Back before everything was made in China, we would refer to this device as a "porta-power". I was an EMT and this was used to open the doors of crunched cars. I'm not sure of the actual origin of the tool, but I did find something you should find useful. Check out: http://www.usjack.com/Parts_Manuals/4%20TON%20PORTA%20POWER%20KIT.pdf -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 05:29 PM 7/12/2010, Jorge Garcia wrote: >I just got a 4 ton hydraulic ram kit from Harbor Freight. Since this >tool is made in China I am assuming that it is a copy of a tool made >somewhere else most likely the US. I'd like to find the origianl >manufacturer to get any documenation (user's amnual) that came with >the tool because as you probably know the user manuals that come >with HF are crap. From strovato at optonline.net Tue Jul 13 14:25:30 2010 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:25:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Hydraulic Ram Kit In-Reply-To: <4C3CC9C1.7080409@milleredp.com> References: <542991.78972.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <0L5I00JW55OZ5N50@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4C3CC9C1.7080409@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <0L5I00JBHJHJ6HH0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Well, this particular company claims 100% American made. I agree that parts won't necessarily interchange, but you can learn some things about the design. -Steve At 04:17 PM 7/13/2010, John Miller wrote: >On 7/13/2010 8:28 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: >>Back before everything was made in China, we would refer to this device >>as a "porta-power". I was an EMT and this was used to open the doors of >>crunched cars. I'm not sure of the actual origin of the tool, but I did >>find something you should find useful. Check out: >> >>http://www.usjack.com/Parts_Manuals/4%20TON%20PORTA%20POWER%20KIT.pdf > >I don't think you can assume that what comes out of HF is a direct >copy of any specific Western product, and of course a lot of what >goes out the door under Western nameplates these days probably comes >out of the plant across the driveway in the same Shenzhen industrial >park as the plant that made HF's. > >So docs related to use-and-technique probably make sense, but when >it comes to dimensions, parts, and assembly it's a different story. > >John. From fortee9er at yahoo.com Wed Jul 14 19:34:18 2010 From: fortee9er at yahoo.com (Jorge Garcia) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage Message-ID: <705538.95245.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks for all the suggestions. I got the message loud and clear - keep it off the floor! To address some of your comments: I have some shelves that the previous homeowner built but I plan on replacing them with something more suitable. I also have some pegboard on the walls but I need to add more. There is also space above the rafters for storage. I'd love to have a higher ceiling so I could have a lift that would allow the storage of an additional car or free up floor space. I have all kinds of ideas but don't have the funds to rebuild the garage now. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. Jorge From mark at bradakis.com Wed Jul 14 20:35:53 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:35:53 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Organizing garage In-Reply-To: <705538.95245.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <705538.95245.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C3E7409.8010500@bradakis.com> I know I mentioned this before, thought I had a picture but can not find it. Plastic rain gutter can be useful. You can cut it to fit various odd areas, and it is great for holding spray cans of paint, brake cleaner and so on. If you have a sink use it to hold soap, sponges and such. I've got about 10 feet of it I removed from the shop that I have yet to put up somewhere in the garage at home. When I do, I'll take a picture. mjb. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri Jul 16 15:57:07 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 17:57:07 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question Message-ID: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Hi Guys, I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) with a B&S engine and 22" blade. Today I nailed a small tree stump with it. Usually you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when you lift off it. Not this time. The engine stopped instantly. The tip of the blade, about 3" back, is bent 90 degrees downward! Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with the blade off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends on the blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) -Thanks, Wayne From jamesf at groupwbench.org Fri Jul 16 16:42:55 2010 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:42:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <6842734A-2DBF-4821-9120-DF28F9A021E3@groupwbench.org> On Jul 16, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Wayne wrote: > > > Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with the blade off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends on the blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) It's fine to start without the blade. If it doesn't start, you likely sheared the key that keeps the flywheel (with the magneto) aligned to the crank. Replaceable, but the flywheel can take some persuading or special tools to remove. jim From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Fri Jul 16 16:44:17 2010 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:44:17 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Message-ID: Hi Wayne, It probably is fine, but I would pull the plug wire and pull it though a couple cycles to check for binding. If it pulls though OK, I would attach the plug wire and start it up. I bet it is fine. best, Doug Shook (Blackberry) 323.286.6115 -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Sender: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 17:57:07 To: Shop Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question Hi Guys, I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) with a B&S engine and 22" blade. Today I nailed a small tree stump with it. Usually you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when you lift off it. Not this time. The engine stopped instantly. The tip of the blade, about 3" back, is bent 90 degrees downward! Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with the blade off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends on the blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) -Thanks, Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dirtbeard at pacbell.net From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri Jul 16 16:56:43 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 17:56:43 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4C40E3AB.8050503@hornesystemstx.com> Wayne, There is a good chance that you damaged the engine I wouldn't start it without the blade, the it does act as a flywheel, and the engine could overspeed easily without one installed. There are several checks you can do though. First, remove the spark plug and slowly turn the engine through a full 360 deg by hand. Are there any tight spots? You will have more drag when the crank to connecting rod are at 90 deg to each other. Next, tip the mower up and look at the end of the crank while you turn the engine over. The shaft should stay centered and not wobble. Usually the crank will get bent when hitting something like this. If it isn't bent and not dragging, put a new blade on and give it a try. If it is bent, there is an old method of straightening the crank that I've seen done, but never used that may work for you. Find a piece of steel pipe that will slide over the crank and bend it back to where the end of the crank does not wobble. There is no guarantee that it will work for long after straightening, but if you want to take the chance, you can't wreck it any more than it is. I've never heard of a crank breaking after being straightening, but I suppose it is possible, so use it at your own risk. Now, back to your first question. If everything seems OK you can block the butterfly so that the engine won't try to run at full speed and try to start it, but only for a short test. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Wayne, On 7/16/2010 4:57 PM: > Hi Guys, > I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) > with a B&S engine and 22" blade. Today I nailed a small tree stump > with it. Usually you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when > you lift off it. Not this time. The engine stopped instantly. The > tip of the blade, about 3" back, is bent 90 degrees downward! > > Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with > the blade off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends > on the blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) > > -Thanks, Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From bjzwissler at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 17:30:51 2010 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Ben Zwissler) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:30:51 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4C40EBAB.5070101@gmail.com> Yes, there's a good chance you damaged the engine. You could start it without the blade, but it may not run normally. May vibrate more and the governor may not keep it stable. I'd put another blade on it. Likely you've at least sheared a key in the flywheel. If so, it won't start or will start but run badly. Good news, its a cheap part and not hard to replace. Pull the metal starter/fan shroud off the top of the mower and then pull the flywheel. Remove bent key, put in new key. Worst case, I had a neighbor who hit one of those metal, twist-in dog stakes with his mower. It caused the lower crank bearing to leak oil badly. Bent the crank, cracked the block or something. Then its time for a new mower or motor. Good luck. Ben...... Ben Zwissler bjzwissler at gmail.com Columbus, IN 1966 Triumph TR4A 1973 MG Midget 1980 Triumph TR8 2007 Mazda RX8 2002 Yamaha FZ1 2003 Honda ST1300 On 7/16/2010 5:57 PM, Wayne wrote: > Hi Guys, > I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) > with a B&S engine and 22" blade. Today I nailed a small tree stump > with it. Usually you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when > you lift off it. Not this time. The engine stopped instantly. The > tip of the blade, about 3" back, is bent 90 degrees downward! > > Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with > the blade off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends > on the blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) > > -Thanks, Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler at gmail.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 17:52:40 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:52:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Wayne wrote: > Hi Guys, > I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) with > a B&S engine and 22" blade. B Today I nailed a small tree stump with it. > B Usually you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when you lift off > it. B Not this time. B The engine stopped instantly. B The tip of the blade, > about 3" back, is bent 90 degrees downward! > > Is there any chance I damaged the engine? B Is it ok to start it with the > blade off, just to see if it runs ok? B (don't know if it depends on the > blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) Depends on the design. Is your mower of the cheap, crappy sort, that requires the blade to be engaged to run the engine, or does it have a clutch, that allows the engine to run without the blade spinning? If it's the cheap, crappy sort, you're out of luck. Buy a less cheap crappy lawnmower. If it's not the cheap, crappy sort, you can run the motor without the blade attached just fine. I suspect you've got a cheap, crappy lawn mower, and have sheared the pin that holds the blade to the flywheel or crank. If that's the case, pull the spark plug, tip it up so you can see the blade, and pull the starter cord. The blade assembly should turn (you'll need to engage the blade run thing, too). -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From dreinsch at swbell.net Fri Jul 16 18:53:53 2010 From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 17:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <312016.90978.qm@web80202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Judging from the number of replies that Wayne has already received, I betting that just about all of us has run our mower over any thing that it will cut, or die trying, and then hammered the blade back straight and got another few years out the old mower. :-) Summer fun to all! Dwade --- On Fri, 7/16/10, Wayne wrote: From: Wayne Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question To: "Shop Talk List" Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 4:57 PM Hi Guys, I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) with a B&S engine and 22" blade. Today I nailed a small tree stump with it. Usually you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when you lift off it. Not this time. The engine stopped instantly. The tip of the blade, about 3" back, is bent 90 degrees downward! Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with the blade off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends on the blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) -Thanks, Wayne _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dreinsch at swbell.net From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri Jul 16 19:48:28 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:48:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <312016.90978.qm@web80202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <312016.90978.qm@web80202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C410BEC.3070006@hornesystemstx.com> You say that like it's a bad thing! Peace, Pat Thusly spake Dwade Reinsch, On 7/16/2010 7:53 PM: > Judging from the number of replies that Wayne has already received, I betting > that just about all of us has run our mower over any thing that it will cut, > or die trying, and then hammered the blade back straight and got another few > years out the old mower. :-) > > Summer fun to all! > > Dwade > > --- On Fri, 7/16/10, Wayne wrote: > > > From: Wayne > Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine& blade question > To: "Shop Talk List" > Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 4:57 PM > > > Hi Guys, > I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) with a > B&S engine and 22" blade. Today I nailed a small tree stump with it. Usually > you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when you lift off it. Not > this time. The engine stopped instantly. The tip of the blade, about 3" > back, is bent 90 degrees downward! > > Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with the blade > off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends on the blade as a > flywheel, or needs it as a load.) > > -Thanks, Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dreinsch at swbell.net > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pat at hornesystemstx.com > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Fri Jul 16 19:49:35 2010 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:49:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <312016.90978.qm@web80202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <312016.90978.qm@web80202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C410C2F.9010306@tx.rr.com> Many years ago I had an old basic mower. My neighbors moved out so I decided to mow their tall grass one day. Not being familiar with their yard, and the grass being pretty tall, I hit a stump. I cranked the mower back up and it ran, but vibrated a lot. The blade seemed straight, so I assumed that the end of the crankshaft was bent. I put the mower up on a couple of workbenches and got under it. I rotated the crank until I figured out which way it bent, and hit it pretty hard with a big hammer. I managed to straighten it enough that it was usable again. > Judging from the number of replies that Wayne has already received, I betting > that just about all of us has run our mower over any thing that it will cut, > or die trying, and then hammered the blade back straight and got another few > years out the old mower. :-) From bk13 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 16 20:55:13 2010 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:55:13 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4C411B91.80400@earthlink.net> Wayne - I have a similar mower purchased back in 2000 and did a similar thing in February (Los Angeles area with year round mowing). On the first mowing of the overgrown lower portion of my yard, I had the mower come down on a 1 inch galvanized pipe that was holding in my railroad tie retaining wall. My string trimmer was broken, so I was 'edging' over the wall with the mower. The blade stopped instantly, but was only chipped. After kicking around the brush to find the other pipes, I started the mower and it still worked. Used it about 10 times since then. When the yard starts to fill in, I'll probably need to resharpen the blade, but for cutting the clumps and weeds, it works fine. I'd try what the others have said about disconnecting the spark plug and spinning the blade around. If the shaft looks good, bend the blade close to good and see how it runs briefly. Maybe you want to buy an anvil for your shop for this step. If it works, get a new blade. I don't know that I'd trust the old blade for future mowing. You may also want to check the shear pin that keys the blade mount to the motor shaft. With the blade removed, you should just be able to pull the bracket off the end of the shaft. I broke one of those as a kid hitting a piece of firewood in foot deep grass. MTD mowers are definitely lower end, but mine had taken lots of abuse. The plastic gas tank has been repaired multiple times by melting new plastic in the seams. It smokes bad at startup, and a valve got stuck 2 weeks after the end of the 2 year engine warranty. The guy at the B&S corporate office said it was my fault and wouldn't have been covered by warranty since I wasn't using a fuel stabilizer. After being quoted high prices to replace the head, I just tilted it up, took off the valve cover, and sprayed it with carb cleaner every few hours. Sometime overnight the valve got unstuck. Put some STP in with the gas and no more valve problems in the 8+ years since. I still don't use fuel stabilizer since I mow year round. Unfortunately, I'm actually looking to downgrade to a corded electric for my new hillside house. That gas mower is a bitch to carry up 25 irregular railroad tie steps from the lower yard area to the back yard area. It's another 33 steps up to the garage, so the mower just sits on the back patio. A narrow electric will be able to fit through the door for under house access near the back yard and is much lighter. Good luck, Brian Wayne wrote: > Hi Guys, > I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) > with a B&S engine and 22" blade. Today I nailed a small tree stump > with it. Usually you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when > you lift off it. Not this time. The engine stopped instantly. The > tip of the blade, about 3" back, is bent 90 degrees downward! > > Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with > the blade off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends > on the blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) > > -Thanks, Wayne > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From pj_thomas at comcast.net Sat Jul 17 13:35:14 2010 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 15:35:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4C4205F2.6030603@comcast.net> On 7/16/2010 5:57 PM, Wayne wrote: > Hi Guys, > I have a simple MTD push lawn mower (that I use to mow around my shop) > with a B&S engine and 22" blade. Today I nailed a small tree stump > with it. Usually you just "graze" things and it somehow survives when > you lift off it. Not this time. The engine stopped instantly. The > tip of the blade, about 3" back, is bent 90 degrees downward! > > Is there any chance I damaged the engine? Is it ok to start it with > the blade off, just to see if it runs ok? (don't know if it depends > on the blade as a flywheel, or needs it as a load.) > > -Thanks, Wayne I would say the engine is hosed. I suspect the MTD is the low end B&S engine. And my experience is hitting anything that would bend the blade will ruin the engine. As others have mentioned, the engine won't run without the blade to act as a fly wheel. I can confirm this. Also, best to buy a new blade; they are cheap. If the engine survived an unbalanced blade with kill engine pretty quick. I had a high end Craftsman mower, relabeled Husquavarnia model, with an easy start B&S mower. First year I hit a tree old tree stump, barely damaged the blade but ruined the engine. Was able to finish the season but it did not run correctly and could not start the next season. I believe the aluminum bore was damaged. I replaced the engine with same model and hit a rock one of the kids left in the lawn. Hosed the second engine even worse, would not start at all. Third engine I was a B&S Intec engine, the bore has a cast iron sleeve. Still hit the occasional rock but no damage. Just my opinion but if anyone buys a mower with a B&S engine, make sure it has a cast iron sleeved bore. Peter T. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Jul 17 16:41:13 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:41:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <4C4205F2.6030603@comcast.net> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> <4C4205F2.6030603@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Peter J. Thomas wrote: > > > I had a high end Craftsman mower, relabeled Husquavarnia model, with an easy > start B&S mower. B First year I hit a tree old tree stump, barely damaged the > blade but ruined the engine. Was able to finish the season but it did not > run correctly and could not start the next season. B I believe the aluminum > bore was damaged. B I replaced the engine with same model and hit a rock one > of the kids left in the lawn. B Hosed the second engine even worse, would not > start at all. B Third engine I was a B&S Intec engine, the bore has a cast > iron sleeve. B Still hit the occasional rock but no damage. > > Just my opinion but if anyone buys a mower with a B&S engine, make sure it > has a cast iron sleeved bore. Mine is : don't buy a piece of shit with the blade directly coupled to the engine. There's no excuse other than "we hired an idiot to design the thing" or "we're selling cheap shit for high end money" for it. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Sat Jul 17 19:39:20 2010 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 21:39:20 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> <4C4205F2.6030603@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20100718013920.GA38097@sackheads.org> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 06:41:13PM -0400, David Scheidt wrote: > Mine is : don't buy a piece of shit with the blade directly coupled to > the engine. There's no excuse other than "we hired an idiot to design > the thing" or "we're selling cheap shit for high end money" for it. The problem with belt-driven mowers is their bulk. Small (21-22") belt drive mowers exist but the one I saw use the same bulky design as its commercial walk-behind cousins -- the blade assembly sat about a foot in front of the engine. Not going to find many homeowners, even those who routinely spend $500+ for push mowers, willing to give up that much garage space. (Is there a reason the pulleys aren't closer together? Are longer belts more durable?) From gsteve at hammatt.com Sun Jul 18 16:22:04 2010 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:22:04 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical stuff Message-ID: <192A05B844A643D1879E9AA60ECA8D3A@DesktopPC> I'm looking at a piece of older industrial machinery with the electrical motor spec's as follows: 1hp 208-230 / 440V I'm assuming that it will be 3ph, so I'll need a phase converter. My concern is that this is a Y type vs. a Delta type electrical requirement and which type would I have? My shop has a straight residential type 220V 1ph. Can this be easily made to work with a simple electronic phase converter under these conditions? Thanks. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From mg_garage at comcast.net Sun Jul 18 17:27:16 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:27:16 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical stuff In-Reply-To: <192A05B844A643D1879E9AA60ECA8D3A@DesktopPC> References: <192A05B844A643D1879E9AA60ECA8D3A@DesktopPC> Message-ID: <4C438DD4.4000200@comcast.net> From mg_garage at comcast.net Sun Jul 18 17:32:10 2010 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:32:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical stuff In-Reply-To: <192A05B844A643D1879E9AA60ECA8D3A@DesktopPC> References: <192A05B844A643D1879E9AA60ECA8D3A@DesktopPC> Message-ID: <4C438EFA.2070104@comcast.net> Now will send it in plain text... I'm not an electrician, but I have had some experience using VFDs as phase converters. I believe that either Delta, or Y is very rare (don't know which one), but I'm sure the VFD can handle it. VFDs are sized by horsepower and it is always better to oversize slightly if you can. For a pump load, you must oversize by one. http://www.phaseconverterinfo.com/phaseconverter_vfd.htm HTH. Gordie Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > I'm looking at a piece of older industrial machinery with the > electrical motor spec's as follows: 1hp 208-230 / 440V > I'm assuming that it will be 3ph, so I'll need a phase converter. My > concern is that this is a Y type vs. a Delta type electrical > requirement and which type would I have? My shop has a straight > residential type 220V 1ph. Can this be easily made to work with a > simple electronic phase converter under these conditions? > Thanks. > > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA > _______________________________________________ From cavanadd at verizon.net Sun Jul 18 17:44:16 2010 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:44:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical stuff In-Reply-To: <192A05B844A643D1879E9AA60ECA8D3A@DesktopPC> References: <192A05B844A643D1879E9AA60ECA8D3A@DesktopPC> Message-ID: <4C4391D0.3030709@verizon.net> Just get a VFD and you'll be in business. I am using four VFDs from 1/2 to 5 HP to run my mortiser, drill press, 12" table saw and thickness planer. They are not terribly expensive in the smaller sizes and fairly simple to hook up assuming you read the directions. I would stay away from the old style static phase converters unless you want to burn up your motor, and for a single 1 HP load a rotary phase converter is overkill. I have found that Factorymation generally has the best deals on converters, and excellent tech support: > http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.13/.f Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: > I'm looking at a piece of older industrial machinery with the electrical > motor spec's as follows: 1hp 208-230 / 440V > I'm assuming that it will be 3ph, so I'll need a phase converter. My > concern is that this is a Y type vs. a Delta type electrical requirement > and which type would I have? My shop has a straight residential type > 220V 1ph. Can this be easily made to work with a simple electronic phase > converter under these conditions? > Thanks. > > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/cavanadd at verizon.net From bob at texmog.com Mon Jul 19 10:24:06 2010 From: bob at texmog.com (bob at texmog.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:24:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Holes in an Aluminum Panel Message-ID: <1A1443C610744559968F14C753DFBF21@CARROOM> I'm working on an aluminum bonnet. Someone in the past had drilled some 1/4 inch holes in the panel to help hold Bondo in place. Why I don't know because the bondo is very thin. The aluminum bonnet is .050 thick and I'd like to not have the holes. Can I have the holes welded up if I find a good welder ? Will there be a lot of distortion if I do have it welded? Or, should I perpetuate the stupidity and just fill the holes again with bondo and attempt to make the under side as pretty as possible? Thanks for any suggestions Bob From jem at milleredp.com Mon Jul 19 10:36:23 2010 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:36:23 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Holes in an Aluminum Panel In-Reply-To: <1A1443C610744559968F14C753DFBF21@CARROOM> References: <1A1443C610744559968F14C753DFBF21@CARROOM> Message-ID: <4C447F07.80703@milleredp.com> > The aluminum bonnet is .050 thick and I'd like to not have the holes. Can I > have the holes welded up if I find a good welder ? Yes, I think a good TIG guy could fill those. Presumably you're not going to use something that puts a lot of heat into the surface dressing down the welds afterward... John. From jdinnis at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 10:41:06 2010 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:41:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Holes in an Aluminum Panel In-Reply-To: <1A1443C610744559968F14C753DFBF21@CARROOM> References: <1A1443C610744559968F14C753DFBF21@CARROOM> Message-ID: You could have the holes welded up, but no matter how skilled the welder is, you have some serious effort in sanding shaping, filling, sanding, shaping, filling, and sanding shaping filling and sanding. I have seen this done on an aircraft panel. It was an engine cowling for a B-17 that was undergoing a museum quality restoration. There was a 3/8 inch hole in the cowl that they were repairing. I don't know how many hours they had in the panel, but I would guess it was in the hundreds. That was a bit thinner, probably .032" but the issue is the same. You will get a lot of heat distortion. On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:24 AM, wrote: > I'm working on an aluminum bonnet. Someone in the past had drilled some 1/4 > inch holes in the panel to help hold Bondo in place. Why I don't know > because the bondo is very thin. > > The aluminum bonnet is .050 thick and I'd like to not have the holes. Can I > have the holes welded up if I find a good welder ? Will there be a lot of > distortion if I do have it welded? Or, should I perpetuate the stupidity > and just fill the holes again with bondo and attempt to make the under side > as pretty as possible? > > > Thanks for any suggestions > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis at gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Jul 19 11:13:22 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:13:22 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Follow-Up: Lawn mower engine & blade question In-Reply-To: <20100718013920.GA38097@sackheads.org> References: <4C40D5B3.8020503@xxiii.com> <4C4205F2.6030603@comcast.net> <20100718013920.GA38097@sackheads.org> Message-ID: <4C4487B2.3010502@xxiii.com> Hey Guys, Thanks for all the input on the mower & blade I clobbered. Amazingly, the crankshaft seems to be un-bent. The flywheel key that's designed to shear off probably did, so I'm gonna score one of those along with a new blade. I tried to start it with no blade on the shaft, and it wouldn't really fire, let alone run. Not sure if that's due to lack of blade mass, or the ignition timing being messed up by that crank key being sheared. Here are a couple pics of the damage. Not quite the 90 degree bend it looked like with my first view under the deck. But nothing I'll be pressing back into service either. http://www.xxiii.com/~wcox/blade/ -Thanks, Wayne From pat at hornesystemstx.com Mon Jul 19 11:42:45 2010 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:42:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Echo string trimmer In-Reply-To: <4C12B7D6.7020906@hornesystemstx.com> References: <4C1275DB.7080705@hornesystemstx.com> <4C12B7D6.7020906@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <4C448E95.9070908@hornesystemstx.com> Finally got the trimmer running again. Turned out to be the seals on the crank leaking. I replaced them and a gasket I tore while looking for the problem and it is back in operation. $20 in parts and shipping is a lot less than the price of a new trimmer!! Thanks again for all the suggestions. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Pat Horne, On 6/11/2010 5:25 PM: > Thanks for all the replies. Most of them didn't go to the list though. > > I've received replies ranging from "Yup, sounds like ignition" to > "definitely Carb". The first thing I am going to check was simply > "reed valve" I forgot all about the reed valve on 2 strike engines! > > It will probably be Monday before I will be able to get to the engine > again, a swarm of bees decided to set up house inside my shop this > afternoon! Hopefully they are just the night, then then move out in > the morning, but I somehow doubt it. There was a swarm in one of our > Oak trees a couple days ago, so they are looking for a place to call > home. It is pretty disconcerting to have several thousand bees flying > around you when you are trying to work. > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake David Scheidt, On 6/11/2010 1:49 PM: >> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Pat Horne >> wrote: >>> A few days ago I was cleaning out a fence line. The string trimmer >>> was doing >>> fine. Then it was as if someone just turned off the switch, it >>> slowed from >>> full speed to stop without any poor running or noise. >>> >>> The fuel is fresh, with the correct mixture. >>> >>> I gave it a shot of ether to see if it would start, it did not >>> respond. To >>> me, this rules out a fuel problem. >>> >>> I replaced the plug, which looked good. >>> >>> After a trip to the local lawn equipment shop I was told that >>> compression >>> was low, and that I should just buy a new trimmer. They also said >>> that I had >>> a 4 cylinder spark plug in it, and that they run hotter than the 2 >>> cycle >>> plug, possibly burning the piston. >>> >>> I didn't think that the compression was any lower than it has been for >>> years, so I brought it home and pulled the cylinder. The piston >>> looks fine >>> and the rings are not stuck. There is no scoring of the cylinder or >>> piston. >>> >>> I connected a neon electrical test light from the high tension lead to >>> ground and got a spark. Connecting the light in series with the plug >>> and >>> lead did not produce any light. I figured that the coil went bad. I >>> have a >>> spare engine from a Mantis tiller that is made by the same company >>> as the >>> Echo, so I mounted up the coil from that engine but got the same >>> results. >>> >>> The shop said that in their 30 years of being in business they have >>> never >>> seen an ignition coil or flywheel on these engines go bad. >>> >>> My money is on the ignition. Anyone else have any guesses? >> >> Do you have an inductive spark tester? (A timing light will work, if >> you hook it up to another 12v source) Is the HT lead part of the coil, >> or a seperate part? I'd bet on that. But yeah, that smells like an >> ignition failure. I've seen the magnets break off the fly wheel. >> There's also a capacitor in most magnetos. >> >> I suspect the reason they've never seen one fail is because people say >> "hum. 80 dollar tool. 100 dollar shop bill." >> > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From marka at maracing.com Mon Jul 19 14:55:15 2010 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] drawer kits? Message-ID: Howdy, Anyone know of inexpensive drawers suitable for a workshop? I want something say 6" or so high with ball bearing slides. I care about how it works and price and not at all about looks. I'm going to be making a stand for a mill/drill, and figured if I can incorporate some drawers, that would be good. Thanks! Mark From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 17:53:54 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:53:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] drawer kits? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Mark Andy wrote: > Howdy, > > Anyone know of inexpensive drawers suitable for a workshop? B I want > something say 6" or so high with ball bearing slides. B I care about how it > works and price and not at all about looks. > > I'm going to be making a stand for a mill/drill, and figured if I can > incorporate some drawers, that would be good. > I've made lots of drawers out of plywood, using pocket holes for the joinery, and slides from the hardware stores. Paint them, and they'll look as good as anything you can buy reasonably cheaply. Use bottoms and slides suited for what you're planning to put in them. Use full extension slides (these are the ones that let you pull the drawer all the way out, to get at what's in the back, instead of only 2/3 of the way out.), they're more than worth the little extra money. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tputland at charter.net Mon Jul 26 06:07:53 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 5:07:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles Message-ID: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Yesterday we looked at an 04 Cavalier for my daughter that has a "salvage" title. We were told that car was in a front end accident and was totaled by the insurance company. This car, with AC, alloy wheels and what not else would blue book for close to $6000. We can get it for $4995. I has new tires and brakes and is very clean. The guy also said it has a new wheel bearing which I have to assume is on the front right wheel where the accident damage occurred. When I drove the car it felt solid and tight. I am looking for any input any one can give me about buying a car that was in an accident and has a salvage title. Is this a good idea or should we walk away from it. My daughter is taking a loan out to buy this car as she needs it for getting to and from work, college classes, and the schools where she will be student teaching; so we really need to get this (or something) done very soon. Thanks Tim From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 26 06:40:12 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:40:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: Whether or not there could be a problem with the title, you are still looking at a car that has been in a serious accident, and how can you know how well it was repaired? A tainted title should give you a much bigger discount than 17%, in my opinion. If you were familiar with the vehicle before the accident and knew what had happened to it, and how it was fixed, probably you could make a sound judgment about its value. But without that information, it's a pure gamble... If it was totaled,they must have replaced a lot more than a wheel bearing! Doug On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Tim wrote: > Yesterday we looked at an 04 Cavalier for my daughter that has a "salvage" title. We were told that car was in a front end accident and was totaled by the insurance company. This car, with AC, alloy wheels and what not else would blue book for close to $6000. We can get it for $4995. > > I has new tires and brakes and is very clean. The guy also said it has a new wheel bearing which I have to assume is on the front right wheel where the accident damage occurred. > > When I drove the car it felt solid and tight. From ericm at lne.com Mon Jul 26 06:38:03 2010 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 05:38:03 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: <20100726123803.GA26075@slack> For motorcycles in the SF bay area the salvage title discount is around 1/3 to 1/2. Remember it'll be worth less when you go to sell it. Eric From jmitch at snet.net Mon Jul 26 06:56:33 2010 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 08:56:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Steering wheel restoration-non LBC Message-ID: <4C4D8601.90104@snet.net> I have a friend looking for a company that does steering wheel restorations for an older Firebird. Does anyone have a recommendation? Thanks John Mitchell 76TR6 72Stag From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Jul 26 07:21:47 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:21:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: <4C4D8BEB.3020204@xxiii.com> On 7/26/2010 8:07 AM, Tim wrote: > I am looking for any input any one can give me about buying a car that was in an accident and has a salvage title. Is this a good idea or should we walk away from it. My daughter is taking a loan out to buy this car as she needs it for getting to and from work, college classes, and the schools where she will be student teaching; so we really need to get this (or something) done very soon. Hard to say for sure. Collision shops have done things as radical as weld a front half and back half together around the center, through the B-pillars, etc. That's *not* I car I would want, or would trust to be reliable or crash worthy. Other times it can just be panel damage; and if the car's value is low due to age or just being cheap to start with, it's easy to rack up a repair bill large enough for the insurance to total it. A friend has a 1993 300ZX. When it was 10 or 12 years old, he spun out on an ice patch and onto a grass median. It only damaged trim pieces and a couple dents that were Bondo-able. But it ended up totaled by the time they added up multiple panels and spraying the whole thing. He bought it out from the insurance company, and doing the labor himself, fixed the whole thing for less then they paid him. It was never damaged that badly, but it's now a salvage title. So... guess I'm saying it's a big gamble unless you can get some reliable info on what really happened to it, and how well it was repaired. That's pretty difficult on any used car, though. It might also affect insurance. Dunno if you can get full coverage on a salvage car; check with your ins co. -Wayne From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 07:50:39 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:50:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Douglas Braun wrote: > Whether or not there could be a problem with the title, you are still > looking at a car that has been in a serious accident, and how can you > know how well it was repaired? B A tainted title should give you a much > bigger discount than 17%, in my opinion. > > If you were familiar with the vehicle before the accident and knew > what had happened to it, and how it was fixed, probably you could make > a sound judgment about its value. B But without that information, it's > a pure gamble... > > If it was totaled,they must have replaced a lot more than a wheel bearing! > Typically, it means that it sustained 75% of its value in damage. If the airbags went off, it wouldn't take much actual damage to go well over that. (Probably 2000 or 3000 dollars to fix the airbags with new parts in that car). But the problem is you don't know, and aren't likely to know. (And even ifsomeone told you, would you believe him?) Unless I did the work myself, or bought it from someone I trust who had done the work himself, I wouldn't pay anywhere near 83% of KBB. Maybe 60, tops. Also, be aware that many banks will not lend money for the purchase of salvage cars. (They're bad security. They sell at huge discounts at auction.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Jul 26 08:46:19 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:46:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: <2e0401cb2cd1$4f847960$0301a8c0@randall> Just to echo what others have said: If it were my daughter, I'd tell her to keep looking. Shouldn't be hard at all to find a car at that price that hasn't been totaled and repaired : http://tinyurl.com/2aeguy9 Randall From marka at maracing.com Mon Jul 26 09:50:51 2010 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: Howdy, On Mon, 26 Jul 2010, Tim wrote: > Yesterday we looked at an 04 Cavalier for my daughter that has a > "salvage" title. We were told that car was in a front end accident and > was totaled by the insurance company. This car, with AC, alloy wheels > and what not else would blue book for close to $6000. We can get it for > $4995. > > I has new tires and brakes and is very clean. The guy also said it has a > new wheel bearing which I have to assume is on the front right wheel > where the accident damage occurred. > > When I drove the car it felt solid and tight. > > I am looking for any input any one can give me about buying a car that > was in an accident and has a salvage title. Is this a good idea or > should we walk away from it. My daughter is taking a loan out to buy > this car as she needs it for getting to and from work, college classes, > and the schools where she will be student teaching; so we really need to > get this (or something) done very soon. My guess is that the loan company may not give you a loan on a salvage / reconstructed vehicle. I also wouldn't pay anything like market value for a salvage title vehicle... People are scared of them and prices reflect that. Lowball the hell out of the guy if you decide to make an offer. All that said... A properly repaired salvage vehicle is fine. Its just metal and plastic and wires and such and if its fixed it doesn't "remember" the crash. :-) Check out the details on why it was totalled and then look at those areas carefully. But I for sure wouldn't pay $5k for a salvage title vehicle that non-salvage was worth $6k. Mark From eltonclark at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 09:58:44 2010 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <2e0401cb2cd1$4f847960$0301a8c0@randall> References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> <2e0401cb2cd1$4f847960$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: *I'm a "car guy" and I get asked what car a parent should buy a daughter and what car a single mom, a divorcee or a widow should buy and what makes a good second car . . .* ** *I always tell them to go find the best Civic, Sentra or Corolla they can afford. If they live in Texas, I suggest a white one is cooler in the summer.* ** *They never listen however; they buy clapped out V8 Camaros or SUVs and stuff with bad automatics. * ** *Sigh* From d_kroninger at hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 11:12:17 2010 From: d_kroninger at hotmail.com (Dan Kroninger) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:12:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08>, <2e0401cb2cd1$4f847960$0301a8c0@randall>, Message-ID: I am with you, I have had 3 civics and have loved every one of them. They are a bit more to get into price wise, but you will pay way more in the long run on an american car. They just seem to be made better, in my opinion. I don't know if a car fax report would show the type of damage that the car had or anything like that, but you may want to request that the seller orders one. Also look at any records for the car, police report, etc. If they do not have that info, they may not have taken good car of this car at all. Definitely get a nice Honda, Toyota Mazda or Subaru. If anyone can get me a good deal on a Spec B Subaru Legacy, you can have my civic real cheap. Dan > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:58:44 -0500 > From: eltonclark at gmail.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles > > *I'm a "car guy" and I get asked what car a parent should buy a daughter and > what car a single mom, a divorcee or a widow should buy and what makes a > good second car . . .* > ** > *I always tell them to go find the best Civic, Sentra or Corolla they can > afford. If they live in Texas, I suggest a white one is cooler in the > summer.* > ** > *They never listen however; they buy clapped out V8 Camaros or SUVs and > stuff with bad automatics. * > ** > *Sigh* > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/d_kroninger at hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Jul 26 11:38:56 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:38:56 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08>, <2e0401cb2cd1$4f847960$0301a8c0@randall>, Message-ID: <4C4DC830.5070303@xxiii.com> On 7/26/2010 1:12 PM, Dan Kroninger wrote: > I am with you, I have had 3 civics and have loved every one of them. They are > a bit more to get into price wise, but you will pay way more in the long run > on an American car. They just seem to be made better, in my opinion. And if you are into the "Buy American" thing, the Civic is built in Ohio. Suprisingly, it looks like the Cavaliers are, too. Was guessing the econo-box Chevys were Mexican. > I don't know if a car fax report would show the type of damage that the car > had or anything like that, but you may want to request that the seller orders > one. Also look at any records for the car, police report, etc. If they do The car-faxes I've seen don't detail damage. They just list "Major damage" vs "Light damage" or something. Think it's just based on a ballpark number from the police report. -Wayne From mbarre at juno.com Mon Jul 26 12:38:10 2010 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:38:10 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question Message-ID: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> I know some of you guys have good electrical backgrounds... Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if operated somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? Thanks, Matt in GA ____________________________________________________________ FIRE SALE: iPads for $23.74? SPECIAL REPORT: iPads are being auctioned for an incredible 85% off! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c4dd62bd7b954b7393st01vuc From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 12:59:55 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:59:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <4C4DC830.5070303@xxiii.com> References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> <2e0401cb2cd1$4f847960$0301a8c0@randall> <4C4DC830.5070303@xxiii.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Wayne wrote: > On 7/26/2010 1:12 PM, Dan Kroninger wrote: >> >> I am with you, I have had 3 civics and have loved every one of them. B They >> are >> a bit more to get into price wise, but you will pay way more in the long >> run >> on an American car. B They just seem to be made better, in my opinion. > > And if you are into the "Buy American" thing, the Civic is built in Ohio. > B Suprisingly, it looks like the Cavaliers are, too. B Was guessing the > econo-box Chevys were Mexican. > >> I don't know if a car fax report would show the type of damage that the >> car >> had or anything like that, but you may want to request that the seller >> orders >> one. B Also look at any records for the car, police report, etc. B If they >> do > > The car-faxes I've seen don't detail damage. B They just list "Major damage" > vs "Light damage" or something. B Think it's just based on a ballpark number > from the police report. > Carfax reports what they get. If the only thing they get is an initial police report that says "major damage", that's what it shows. If they get data from insurer or body shop that says what they paid to have done, they'll show that, but they don't get those data a whole lot. (A number of insurance companies have a history of committing out-right fraud by not getting salvage titles on vehicles they were required to. Do you really think they're going to volunteer data that reduces the auction value of their cars?) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 26 13:09:01 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:09:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Try it first with one you don't mind wrecking... Doug On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Matt wrote: > I know some of you guys have good electrical backgrounds... > > Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if operated > somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? > > Thanks, > Matt in GA From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Mon Jul 26 13:11:50 2010 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (gerry brazil) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:11:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <54CA57FB95BF4F37B38916B6888C2515@Digilink1> It should run twice as fast but half as long ;-) Whatca gonna do? Water Ski? -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:38 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question I know some of you guys have good electrical backgrounds... Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if operated somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? Thanks, Matt in GA ____________________________________________________________ FIRE SALE: iPads for $23.74? SPECIAL REPORT: iPads are being auctioned for an incredible 85% off! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c4dd62bd7b954b7393st01vuc _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 26 13:55:13 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:55:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <54CA57FB95BF4F37B38916B6888C2515@Digilink1> References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> <54CA57FB95BF4F37B38916B6888C2515@Digilink1> Message-ID: I read somewhere (maybe this mailing list?) the the lifetime of an incandescent light bulb is inversely proportional to the sixth power of the voltage. I.e. double the voltage, and the lifetime is reduced 64x. Hopefully motors aren't so bad in this regard. Doug From mbarre at juno.com Mon Jul 26 14:28:22 2010 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:28:22 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question Message-ID: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> I shoulda just gave the whole story up front. I cart off timed out 24V batteries from work (they were paying to dispose of them!) They still have good life in them and I was going to use it to power my canoe on early morning fishing jaunts. They make 24V trolling motors, but I was looking to just get a cheap used one and you rarely find the 24V used - plus they are usually much higher power motors. Some airplanes have a "cold start" switch that will put your typically paralleled batteries in series for a little extra electromotive umph when very cold. I guess the starters are engineered to accept this higher voltage without serious problems given the limited times that would be used. Matt ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "gerry brazil" To: "'Matt'" , Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Electrical question Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:11:50 -0400 It should run twice as fast but half as long ;-) Whatca gonna do? Water Ski? -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:38 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question I know some of you guys have good electrical backgrounds... Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if operated somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? Thanks, Matt in GA ____________________________________________________________ FIRE SALE: iPads for $23.74? SPECIAL REPORT: iPads are being auctioned for an incredible 85% off! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c4dd62bd7b954b7393st01vuc _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com From battmain at yahoo.com Mon Jul 26 14:51:40 2010 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <961623.83942.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Runs faster and wonderful, until you smell something burning. If you let it continue, you see wisps of smoke and that's usually when the OS factor kicks in. ;p BTDT with a hair dryer on 220v abroad. Yes, I knew better, but you just have to try these things, ya know. What if... :) I can tell you that thing screamed and put out some serious air, and! it still works. As for guesstimates...it works until you melt something. Be sure to have a fire extinguisher handy while you're showing a finger to the safety nuts. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Matt (snip) I know some of you guys have good electrical backgrounds... Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if operated somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? Thanks, Matt in GA (snip) From drew at DasRogges.com Mon Jul 26 15:03:40 2010 From: drew at DasRogges.com (Drew Rogge) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:03:40 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> References: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <4C4DF82C.3030202@DasRogges.com> I don't know how many amps a trolling motor draws but they do make DC/DC converters. This page http://www.powerstream.com/dcdc.htm has some listed. Here's something similar from Surplus Center: On 07/26/2010 01:28 PM, Matt wrote: > I shoulda just gave the whole story up front. I cart off timed out 24V > batteries from work (they were paying to dispose of them!) They still have > good life in them and I was going to use it to power my canoe on early morning > fishing jaunts. They make 24V trolling motors, but I was looking to just get > a cheap used one and you rarely find the 24V used - plus they are usually much > higher power motors. > > Some airplanes have a "cold start" switch that will put your typically > paralleled batteries in series for a little extra electromotive umph when very > cold. I guess the starters are engineered to accept this higher voltage > without serious problems given the limited times that would be used. > > Matt From kennedybc at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 15:10:50 2010 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian Kennedy) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:10:50 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> <54CA57FB95BF4F37B38916B6888C2515@Digilink1> Message-ID: It's all about temperature. 2X the voltage 4X the power. There are other variables as well and it would be a science project to find out how much overvoltage and for how long before you damage the motor. You may also partially damage the motor and shorten it's life at 12V. Brian Kennedy On Jul 26, 2010, at 12:55 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: > I read somewhere (maybe this mailing list?) the the lifetime of > an incandescent light bulb is inversely proportional to the > sixth power of the voltage. I.e. double the voltage, and the lifetime > is reduced 64x. Hopefully motors aren't so bad in this regard. > > Doug From kennedybc at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 15:18:19 2010 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian Kennedy) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:18:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> References: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Well, there you go. Put two 12V motors in series, but you'll have to catch fast fish. Brian K. Brian C Kennedy Cell 734 649 8548 2711 N. Maple Road Fax 734 661 5108 Ann Arbor, MI 48103 kennedybc at comcast.net On Jul 26, 2010, at 1:28 PM, Matt wrote: > I shoulda just gave the whole story up front. I cart off timed out 24V > batteries from work (they were paying to dispose of them!) They still have > good life in them and I was going to use it to power my canoe on early morning > fishing jaunts. They make 24V trolling motors, but I was looking to just get > a cheap used one and you rarely find the 24V used - plus they are usually much > higher power motors. > > Some airplanes have a "cold start" switch that will put your typically > paralleled batteries in series for a little extra electromotive umph when very > cold. I guess the starters are engineered to accept this higher voltage > without serious problems given the limited times that would be used. > > Matt > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "gerry brazil" > To: "'Matt'" , > Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Electrical question > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:11:50 -0400 > > It should run twice as fast but half as long ;-) > > Whatca gonna do? Water Ski? > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:38 PM > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question > > I know some of you guys have good electrical backgrounds... > > Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if > operated > somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? > > Thanks, > Matt in GA > > ____ From arvidj at visi.com Mon Jul 26 15:18:46 2010 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:18:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question References: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <34792DADC6C9430492CF4F05F3D74631@behavioral.com> Buy two cheap used 12v motors and put them in series. That will take 24v and you'd have the fastest canoe on the lake!! On the more serious side, I would be more concerned about how long the speed control on the trolling motor would last than I would the motor itself. How robust is the over-voltage protection for the electronics in the speed control? >I shoulda just gave the whole story up front. I cart off timed out 24V > batteries from work (they were paying to dispose of them!) They still > have > good life in them and I was going to use it to power my canoe on early > morning > fishing jaunts. They make 24V trolling motors, but I was looking to just > get > a cheap used one and you rarely find the 24V used - plus they are usually > much > higher power motors. > > Some airplanes have a "cold start" switch that will put your typically > paralleled batteries in series for a little extra electromotive umph when > very > cold. I guess the starters are engineered to accept this higher voltage > without serious problems given the limited times that would be used. > > Matt From pj_thomas at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 15:20:00 2010 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:20:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> References: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <4C4DFC00.3070801@comcast.net> On 7/26/2010 4:28 PM, Matt wrote: > I shoulda just gave the whole story up front. I cart off timed out 24V > batteries from work (they were paying to dispose of them!) They still have > good life in them and I was going to use it to power my canoe on early morning > fishing jaunts. They make 24V trolling motors, but I was looking to just get > a cheap used one and you rarely find the 24V used - plus they are usually much > higher power motors. > > Some airplanes have a "cold start" switch that will put your typically > paralleled batteries in series for a little extra electromotive umph when very > cold. I guess the starters are engineered to accept this higher voltage > without serious problems given the limited times that would be used. > > Matt > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "gerry brazil" > To: "'Matt'", > Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Electrical question > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:11:50 -0400 > > It should run twice as fast but half as long ;-) > > Whatca gonna do? Water Ski? > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:38 PM > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question > > I know some of you guys have good electrical backgrounds... > > Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if > operated > somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? > > Thanks, > Matt in GA > Starting writing up a response for an emergency use of 24v for a 12v motor, but you want to run full time on 24v. My take is 24v will fry a 12v motor pretty quick. If you do this limit the throttle to about 1/4 or 1/3. In theory at roughly 1/2 throttle the motor will be fine, but the rheostat in the throttle and the feed wires will burn out since it has to dissipate much more heat. Peter T. > ____________________________________________________________ > FIRE SALE: iPads for $23.74? > SPECIAL REPORT: iPads are being auctioned for an incredible 85% off! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c4dd62bd7b954b7393st01vuc > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/gerrybraz at cablespeed.com > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Mon Jul 26 15:43:52 2010 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (bjshov8 at tx.rr.com) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:43:52 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100726214352.H3J4O.20810.root@cdptpa-web12-z01> What are the characteristics of the 24V battery? Under load what voltage does it maintain? Some batteries will maintain their voltage under load and some will not. For instance common AA batteries- an alkaline battery will not supply very much amperage to a load because its voltage will drop considerably, but a AA NiMH will hold its voltage much better and put out a good amount of amperage. > It's all about temperature. 2X the voltage 4X the power. There are other > variables as well and it would be a science project to find out how much > overvoltage and for how long before you damage the motor. You may also > partially damage the motor and shorten it's life at 12V. From shop at justbrits.com Mon Jul 26 15:48:20 2010 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:48:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <961623.83942.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> <961623.83942.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C4E02A4.5090603@justbrits.com> Prolly need to amend this Brian, to...... << Be sure to have a fire extinguisher handy... >> ....a properly RATED fire ........ !!! Anon From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Jul 26 16:24:08 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:24:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <180801cb2d11$445360c0$ccfa2240$@rr.com> > Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if > operated > somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? Depends on the "judiciously" part, IMO. Your controller almost certainly uses a solid-state chopper, so if it doesn't fry instantly and you limit yourself to what the performance would be at 12v, my _guess_ would be that it would not harm the motor at all. As someone already mentioned, heat in the motor is the problem (again assuming the electronics can withstand the voltage), so as long as you don't let the motor overheat ... -- Randall From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 26 16:52:36 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:52:36 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <180801cb2d11$445360c0$ccfa2240$@rr.com> References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> <180801cb2d11$445360c0$ccfa2240$@rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Randall wrote: >> Any guesstimates on how quickly a 12 volt trolling motor be fried if >> operated >> somewhat judiciously at 24 volts? Sometime try running a regular 120v incandescent light bulb on 240 volts. Surprisingly, they don't burn out right away, but they are REALLY bright. Old style photoflood bulbs probably operated at the same temperature, and they last a few hours. Doug From eltonclark at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 17:01:02 2010 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:01:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <180801cb2d11$445360c0$ccfa2240$@rr.com> References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> <180801cb2d11$445360c0$ccfa2240$@rr.com> Message-ID: *If you have a junker example of one of those 24 volt batteries; you could poke & peel around and MAYBE find a center strap or connector which you could sever to isolate the cells into two 12 volt batteries which could be used and charged separately. . connect one to get you UP the creek and then . . . :->* ** *Tony* From kennedybc at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 17:01:01 2010 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian Kennedy) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:01:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <4C4E02A4.5090603@justbrits.com> References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> <961623.83942.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4C4E02A4.5090603@justbrits.com> Message-ID: <8CE0D1E8-A322-4765-BE2D-B6F1555A289A@comcast.net> I suppose he could throw the motor in the lake when it catches on fire. Is it an aluminum canoe? That would help. Brian K On Jul 26, 2010, at 2:48 PM, Shop at Just Brits wrote: > Prolly need to amend this Brian, to...... > > << Be sure to have a fire extinguisher handy... >> > > ....a properly RATED fire ........ > !!! > > Anon From eric at megageek.com Mon Jul 26 17:08:05 2010 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:08:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: I want to echo what many have said (then add a little food for thought.) First, you aren't getting enough of a discount for a salvage title. I would beat them up for less than half of the KBB or walk. Second, check with your Ins company as they may not allow you to get full coverage on a Salvage title and it will most likely be required for any car with a loan on it. That brings me to my point, I don't know if any of you are familiar with Dave Ramsey or his Financial Peace University, but you should be. He is the most level headed, and well educated finical speaker I have ever hear. I agree with him that you should only buy a car that you can pay for in cash. Save up enough money to buy a beater and pay in cash, then as soon as you get the car, start saving for another car. I see kids coming out of college with over $50,000 in college debt and having car payments (and other debt trouble they may get in) doesn't help. So I would see what your daughter had to spend on a car. Match he money if you can, and buy a cheaper car outright. Then instill in her that the car payments she would have made can go into a bank account as a savings plans for her next car. I don't mean to overstep and parenting values or anything, I just hope this idea can help. (Please note I get NO compensation for Dave Ramsey or any of his programs. I am also a single guy with no kids and never married so take my advice with a grain of sand.) Moose "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson Tim Sent by: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net 07/26/2010 08:22 AM To ShopTalk cc Subject [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles Yesterday we looked at an 04 Cavalier for my daughter that has a "salvage" title. We were told that car was in a front end accident and was totaled by the insurance company. This car, with AC, alloy wheels and what not else would blue book for close to $6000. We can get it for $4995. I has new tires and brakes and is very clean. The guy also said it has a new wheel bearing which I have to assume is on the front right wheel where the accident damage occurred. When I drove the car it felt solid and tight. I am looking for any input any one can give me about buying a car that was in an accident and has a salvage title. Is this a good idea or should we walk away from it. My daughter is taking a loan out to buy this car as she needs it for getting to and from work, college classes, and the schools where she will be student teaching; so we really need to get this (or something) done very soon. Thanks Tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.96 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eric at megageek.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Jul 26 17:42:21 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:42:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: References: <20100726.143810.4945.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com> <180801cb2d11$445360c0$ccfa2240$@rr.com> Message-ID: <182c01cb2d1c$31b2b280$95181780$@rr.com> > Sometime try running a regular 120v incandescent light bulb on 240 > volts. That's a much different situation though; not much similarity between a permanent magnet trolling motor and an incandescent light bulb. For one thing, a running PM motor also acts as a generator, whose output opposes the applied voltage, reducing the current through the motor. -- Randall From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 26 17:46:25 2010 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Douglas Braun) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:46:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:08 PM, wrote: > I agree with him that you should only buy a car that you can pay for in > cash. Save up enough money to buy a beater and pay in cash, then as soon > as you get the car, start saving for another car. The classical problem here is that somebody needs a car to get a job, so they will have the money to pay for the car. Sort of the same reason businesses need to borrow money. But I have heard some people asking about how to borrow money to buy a collectible or other "play" car. Now THAT's really silly. Doug From shiples at comcast.net Mon Jul 26 17:57:22 2010 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:57:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20100726165100.040c2a68@mail.comcast.net> > I agree with him that you should only buy a car that you can pay for in >cash. Save up enough money to buy a beater and pay in cash, then as soon >as you get the car, start saving for another car. That's what I've been doing all my life......I wonder if that's the reason I'm still single. It's okay for you or me to drive a beater, might not be a good idea for a young woman. It makes good financial sense, but there's not much of a fun factor. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Jul 26 18:31:14 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:31:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: <4C4E28D2.1010705@xxiii.com> On 7/26/2010 7:46 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: > The classical problem here is that somebody needs a car to get a job, > so they will have the money to pay for the car. > Sort of the same reason businesses need to borrow money. Yeah, that's the problem I see too. A "reasonable" amount of debt is sort of a necessary evil, unless you're "old money". Trap I got into as a kid was: Buy beater. Jeopardize job & income with all too frequent break-downs and absences. Pay someone else big bucks for towing and repairs (living in an apt at the time, with no place to work, and auto repair skills not developed.) After four years, have a deep money pit of a clunker with over 200K miles, ZERO resale, and cash outlays that could have been paying off a loan on something that was RELIABLE and would still have residual value. -Wayne From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Mon Jul 26 20:24:19 2010 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:24:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Patching holes in a concrete block foundation? Message-ID: <20100727022419.GA60066@sackheads.org> Not really shop related but I thought I might tap into the collective anyway... My crawlspace has a concrete block foundation with two gaps where mice can enter. One is where the sewer line exits, the other is a largish hole that appears to be where the builder planned to run the sewer line but later changed his mind. Now, I know the standard method of patching gaps around a pipe is to pack it with expanding hydraulic cement. But for a hollow concrete block foundation, that's probably not good enough since each hole thru the block is actually two holes (one thru the inner wall and one thru the outer wall). So just patching the gap on the inner side still leaves an entry point on the outer side. And since the blocks are hollow and unfilled so far as I can tell, a rodent/bug/snake can enter through the hole in the outer face and climb up thru the inside of the blocks and exit into the crawlspace at the sill plate (the sill plate does not appear to completely cover the top of the blocks...if it did, I think this whole issue would be moot) I realize the best solution is to dig down on the outside of the foundation to where the pipes exit and patch the gaps in the outer block face. But in my case, there are a number of nearby trees and I'm sure that area is one big mess of roots so this option is a non-starter. I'm thinking an alternative might be to A) patch the inner face with hydraulic cement, and B) fill the channels of those concrete blocks within a couple feet of the gaps from the bottom up by squirting a thin concrete mix from the openings at the sill plate down into the channels. (I figure at least some of the channels in the block must be filled with concrete so that the sill plate could be anchored to the block but a cursory inspection has shown at least some that are empty or are only partially filled.) The idea being that if a rodent found the gap in the exterior block face, it wouldn't be able to climb up through the blocks because they'd now be filled with something it can't gnaw thru. Now, there's no vertical room to manipulate a concrete vibrator so the mix would have to be pretty thin to make sure it flows all the way down...probably cake batter consistency. I realize that too much water will result in weak concrete and shrinkage but I'm only looking to solidify the blocks... Has anybody done this sort of thing? Is there a better alternative? JM From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 20:37:48 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:37:48 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <4C4E28D2.1010705@xxiii.com> References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> <4C4E28D2.1010705@xxiii.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Wayne wrote: > On 7/26/2010 7:46 PM, Douglas Braun wrote: >> >> The classical problem here is that somebody needs a car to get a job, >> so they will have the money to pay for the car. >> Sort of the same reason businesses need to borrow money. > > Yeah, that's the problem I see too. B A "reasonable" amount of debt is sort > of a necessary evil, unless you're "old money". > Ramsey isn't out to give financial advice. He's out to make money. Pretending that the world is black and white and saying that debt is always evil lets you sell books and classes. Telling the truth, that finance is complicated is a much harder sell. People who are willing to be told something as basic as "don't spend money you can't afford to pay back" aren't willing to do complicated things like work out the future value of money, or figure the opportunity cost of car breakdown. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Mon Jul 26 20:53:37 2010 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:53:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Patching holes in a concrete block foundation? In-Reply-To: <20100727022419.GA60066@sackheads.org> References: <20100727022419.GA60066@sackheads.org> Message-ID: <4C4E4A31.1080209@tx.rr.com> If you really want to seal it, then fill the vertical cells in the blocks with grout up to and above the point where the pipes/conduits go through. You might want to wrap the pipes with something so the grout won't bond and prevent you from ever removing the pipes in the future. There are 2 ways to put in the grout. You can just pump it in from the top until it fills the cells. Or you can enlarge the hole on the inside wall, cram some heavy wadded up paper into the cell and push it down a little bit, then it takes less grout to fill the cell. When the grout gets up to the point where the hole in the cell is, you can hold a board or something like that against the hole to keep the grout from spilling out. Grout is commonly mixed using 1 part cement and 2.5-3 parts sand. You do put a lot of water in it, to the consistency of a milkshake, but the extra water isn't a problem because the masonry will suck some of the water out of the mix. > Not really shop related but I thought I might tap into the collective anyway... > > My crawlspace has a concrete block foundation with two gaps where mice can > enter. One is where the sewer line exits, the other is a largish hole that > appears to be where the builder planned to run the sewer line but later > changed his mind. > > Now, I know the standard method of patching gaps around a pipe is to pack it > with expanding hydraulic cement. But for a hollow concrete block foundation, > that's probably not good enough since each hole thru the block is actually > two holes (one thru the inner wall and one thru the outer wall). So just > patching the gap on the inner side still leaves an entry point on the outer > side. And since the blocks are hollow and unfilled so far as I can tell, > a rodent/bug/snake can enter through the hole in the outer face and climb up > thru the inside of the blocks and exit into the crawlspace at the sill plate > (the sill plate does not appear to completely cover the top of the blocks...if > it did, I think this whole issue would be moot) > > I realize the best solution is to dig down on the outside of the foundation to > where the pipes exit and patch the gaps in the outer block face. But in my > case, there are a number of nearby trees and I'm sure that area is one big mess > of roots so this option is a non-starter. > > I'm thinking an alternative might be to > A) patch the inner face with hydraulic cement, and > B) fill the channels of those concrete blocks within a couple feet of the > gaps from the bottom up by squirting a thin concrete mix from the openings > at the sill plate down into the channels. > > (I figure at least some of the channels in the block must be filled with concrete > so that the sill plate could be anchored to the block but a cursory > inspection has shown at least some that are empty or are only partially > filled.) > > The idea being that if a rodent found the gap in the exterior block face, it > wouldn't be able to climb up through the blocks because they'd now be filled > with something it can't gnaw thru. > > Now, there's no vertical room to manipulate a concrete vibrator so the mix would > have to be pretty thin to make sure it flows all the way down...probably > cake batter consistency. I realize that too much water will result in weak > concrete and shrinkage but I'm only looking to solidify the blocks... > > Has anybody done this sort of thing? Is there a better alternative? From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Mon Jul 26 20:57:05 2010 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:57:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical question In-Reply-To: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> References: <20100726.162822.20056.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <20100727025705.GC60066@sackheads.org> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 08:28:22PM +0000, Matt wrote: > I shoulda just gave the whole story up front. I cart off timed out 24V > batteries from work (they were paying to dispose of them!) They still have > good life in them and I was going to use it to power my canoe on early morning > fishing jaunts. They make 24V trolling motors, but I was looking to just get > a cheap used one and you rarely find the 24V used - plus they are usually much > higher power motors. > Yeah, the 24V TMs that I've seen are in the 60-70lb range or higher. Come to think of it, that would be pretty fun on a little canoe! A DC-DC converter is an option but it would need to be beefy since a trolling motor might draw upwards of 50A @ 12V at full throttle. A converter capable of that load will probably cost more than a new 12V battery. If the batteries you're carting off are still useable, perhaps you could sell a few on craigslist to geeks looking to modify their UPSes for longer runtime (my SmartUPS 1500s run on 24V) and use the proceeds to buy a 12V battery? JM From mark at bradakis.com Mon Jul 26 21:04:06 2010 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:04:06 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> <2e0401cb2cd1$4f847960$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4C4E4CA6.5010705@bradakis.com> > *I always tell them to go find the best Civic, Sentra or Corolla they can > afford. The only car I ever bought new was a 1987 Honda Civic Si, black. Unfortunately I broke it 21 years later and never did get around to fixing it. Still miss it. It was such a pleasant, competent mix of performance, utility, economy and style. It was a nice car. mjb. From tputland at charter.net Tue Jul 27 05:56:01 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 4:56:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: <20100727075601.88K6Y.9317395.root@mp17> Despite all the words of wisdom and personal experience offered by those on this list, my 20 year old daughter was still dead set on buying this car. All I could do was throw my hands up. Since when does one's child actually listen to words of wisdom when either coming from, or relayed by, a parent? Anyway.........Thankfully, our insurance company would not insure the car without a detailed, written account of the damages and repairs done by the person(s) who fixed the car. Needless to say, the guy would not provide anything like this. Thanks very much to all who replied!! Beers on me if you are ever in Southcentral WI!!!! Tim Dairyland Datsuns From marka at maracing.com Tue Jul 27 07:43:54 2010 From: marka at maracing.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: <20100727075601.88K6Y.9317395.root@mp17> References: <20100727075601.88K6Y.9317395.root@mp17> Message-ID: Howdy, On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Tim wrote: > Despite all the words of wisdom and personal experience offered by those > on this list, my 20 year old daughter was still dead set on buying this > car. All I could do was throw my hands up. Since when does one's child > actually listen to words of wisdom when either coming from, or relayed > by, a parent? > > Anyway.........Thankfully, our insurance company would not insure the > car without a detailed, written account of the damages and repairs done > by the person(s) who fixed the car. Needless to say, the guy would not > provide anything like this. Sounds like the evil insurance company got to be the bad guy and not you, so its a win all around. :-) Mark From tputland at charter.net Tue Jul 27 08:19:00 2010 From: tputland at charter.net (Tim) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 7:19:00 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100727101900.WYZAJ.9323159.root@mp17> Well, Yes and no, it was a win win, but I was still the bad guy as the insurance company information didn't get relayed to my daughter and myself until a couple hours later when my wife got home from work. So, I was the big time heal for a good part of yesterday afternoon. I actually don't have to consider my insurance company evil. We use Liberty Mutual for the house, three daily drivers and two 1970 Datsun Roadsters, and have had no problems with them, at all. They even insure my Datsuns the same way Haggerty or Grundy would with less limitations for about the same money. (Your experience may differ! lol) ---- Mark Andy wrote: ============= Howdy, On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Tim wrote: > Despite all the words of wisdom and personal experience offered by those > on this list, my 20 year old daughter was still dead set on buying this > car. All I could do was throw my hands up. Since when does one's child > actually listen to words of wisdom when either coming from, or relayed > by, a parent? > > Anyway.........Thankfully, our insurance company would not insure the > car without a detailed, written account of the damages and repairs done > by the person(s) who fixed the car. Needless to say, the guy would not > provide anything like this. Sounds like the evil insurance company got to be the bad guy and not you, so its a win all around. :-) Mark From drann340 at msn.com Tue Jul 27 20:24:01 2010 From: drann340 at msn.com (Dave Rann) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:24:01 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100727075601.88K6Y.9317395.root@mp17>, Message-ID: Good experiences is all that I have had with salvage titles. A 1973- 71 Capri, 2.5RS Subaru, 1986 Porsche, and most recently a BMW GS motorcycle. Actually, the Capri, a truly fun little car, the Porsche and the Subaru which we still drive had some creative title work but a Carfax might raise some questions. The motorcycle has a rebuilt from salvage title. None of these vehicles has had any problems due to the repairs, except a less than superb paint job on the Subaru. They all have has full coverage insurance, and all have had loans at one time. I have paid thousands of dollars less than market value on each, and my wife and I are still alive. So, my feelings are: a salvage title vehicle is definitely worth less than a pristine garage queen and has a lesser resale value, what is the resale value for a garage queen after you put 70,000 miles on it? Go right ahead and spend your money. Dave _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL :en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 From battmain at yahoo.com Wed Jul 28 19:43:37 2010 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20100726080753.1U9RG.6300874.root@mp08> Message-ID: <42396.92543.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> >----- Original Message ---- >From: Douglas Braun >To: eric at megageek.com >Cc: ShopTalk >Sent: Mon, July 26, 2010 7:46:25 PM >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Salvage title vehicles (snip) >But I have heard some people asking about how to borrow money to buy a >collectible or other "play" car. Now THAT's really silly. >Doug And what's so silly about borrowing for a play car? My race car was financed. :p To the finance and insurance company, it was a 'show' car. They could not figure out why it had less than 5k miles after 4 years. The older race car is about the same too. Sometimes you do what you have to do ya know? We wont talk about the rental vans getting hitches and light hook ups put on them. I got so good at it, I could have the hitch and lights done in 15 minutes from the time I parked it in the driveway. At least the statue of limitations have run out now. Yeah, I'm silly! :) Brian battmain at yahoo.com From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri Jul 30 14:16:55 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:16:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question Message-ID: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> Hey Guys, Anyone know much about current HVAC? The heat pup at our "shop" [ok - it's really the office] has a bum compressor in the outside unit, and the unit is mis-matched. It's 1.5 ton, and the inside air handler and coil are 2.0- ton. seems like a whole new outside unit would be the way to go. Our repair guy claims that due to the R-22 phase-out, you can not even buy an R-22 outside coil unit. He says replacement compressors are available, but the age and condition of the unit makes this inadvisable. Is this for real? I thought the stuff wan't completely banned until 2020. Is R-22 equipment really unavailable for service jobs? -Thanks, Wayne From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 30 14:58:16 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:58:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question In-Reply-To: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> > Anyone know much about current HVAC? The heat pup at our > "shop" [ok - it's really the office] has a bum compressor in > the outside unit, and the unit is mis-matched. It's 1.5 ton, > and the inside air handler and coil are 2.0- ton. seems like > a whole new outside unit would be the way to go. Why? Using an oversize evaporator & air handler should not be a problem, and will actually be slightly more efficient overall. Of course you'll only get 1.5 tons of cooling, so the real question is whether that is enough for your situation. Think of it as a 45hp motor in your VW bug, instead of a 60 > He says replacement > compressors are available, but the age and condition of the > unit makes this inadvisable. Again, why? Basically everything that wears out (compressor, fan, etc) can be replaced. Unless the coils are damaged, you should be able to keep it going nearly forever. > Is this for real? I thought the stuff wan't completely > banned until 2020. Not even totally banned then, only not allowed to manufacture new refrigerant. Existing supplies can continue to be recycled until they leak away. > Is R-22 equipment really unavailable for > service jobs? That I don't know, been out of touch for too long. Randall From jniolon at bham.rr.com Fri Jul 30 15:01:38 2010 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (John Niolon) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:01:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] shop sewer/septic tank prob Message-ID: got a nice weekend problem... septic tank seems to be ready to spew !! drains running very slow... lots of gurgline in commodes and shower drains but no back up yet... sound like a clean up I'm thinking but truck can't get here till Monday afternoon... anything I can do in the interim to prevent a disaster ?? thankis john I've learned in life that my primary goal is to serve as a bad example From jamesf at groupwbench.org Fri Jul 30 16:01:34 2010 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:01:34 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] shop sewer/septic tank prob In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jul 30, 2010, at 5:01 PM, John Niolon wrote: > got a nice weekend problem... septic tank seems to be ready to spew !! drains > running very slow... lots of gurgline in commodes and shower drains but no > back up yet... > In my experience that's roots in the sewer pipe. Rent a rooter if you can and auger it out. If it is, it'll come back unless you seal it or kill the roots... jim From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 30 16:25:08 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:25:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] shop sewer/septic tank prob In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008801cb3036$11766490$0301a8c0@randall> > anything I can do in the interim to prevent a disaster ?? Stop flushing, and take your showers in the backyard! Randall From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri Jul 30 16:34:38 2010 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:34:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] shop sewer/septic tank prob In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C53537E.2070102@xxiii.com> On 7/30/2010 6:01 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: > On Jul 30, 2010, at 5:01 PM, John Niolon wrote: >> got a nice weekend problem... septic tank seems to be ready to spew !! >> drains running very slow... lots of gurgline > > In my experience that's roots in the sewer pipe. Rent a rooter if you can and > auger it out. I'll 2nd the roots diagnosis. Sounds like something clogging the main line between the house & tank. The 3" PVC line out of my place is only about 4" underground. There was a hole cut in it; like a roto-tiller or some power equipment during construction?? Nearby tree found it and was going crazy on the free snack. -Wayne From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 17:12:52 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:12:52 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question In-Reply-To: <007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> <007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Randall wrote: >> Anyone know much about current HVAC? B The heat pup at our >> "shop" B [ok - it's really the office] has a bum compressor in >> the outside unit, and the unit is mis-matched. B It's 1.5 ton, >> and the inside air handler and coil are 2.0- ton. B seems like >> a whole new outside unit would be the way to go. > > Why? B Using an oversize evaporator & air handler should not be a problem, > and will actually be slightly more efficient overall. B Of course you'll only > get 1.5 tons of cooling, so the real question is whether that is enough for > your situation. B Think of it as a 45hp motor in your VW bug, instead of a 60 > > >> B He says replacement >> compressors are available, but the age and condition of the >> unit makes this inadvisable. > > Again, why? B Basically everything that wears out (compressor, fan, etc) can > be replaced. B Unless the coils are damaged, you should be able to keep it > going nearly forever. Manufacture of service parts stopped 31 Dec, 2009. If the indoor coil is an old, low efficiency model, attaching it to a modern (well, moderner, but already obsolete) high-efficiency compressor will result in *lower capacity and efficiency* than if it were the old low-efficiency compressor. So, even if he were to buy a SEER 14 R22 unit for the outside, if the evaporator is still a SEER 10 unit, the system efficiency would be somewhere around 8. Depending on where you live, the building, and the electric rate, that could cost a couple thousand bucks a year, though a few hundred is more likely. If that's not enough, the actual capacity of the system is reduced by about 40% as well. So, even if R22 weren't a dead end, it might well make sense to replace the whole system. And if you're replacing the whole system, there's no reason to use R22, unless they give you the equipment for free. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From pj_thomas at comcast.net Fri Jul 30 17:14:59 2010 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:14:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] shop sewer/septic tank prob In-Reply-To: <008801cb3036$11766490$0301a8c0@randall> References: <008801cb3036$11766490$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <4C535CF3.3020205@comcast.net> On 7/30/2010 6:25 PM, Randall wrote: >> anything I can do in the interim to prevent a disaster ?? >> > Stop flushing, and take your showers in the backyard! > Good advice!!! However, pumping out the tank may not fix it. My experience is slow drains means a clog somewhere. You'll have to dig up the lids (plural) to the tank for the driver anyway, so open it and see if the tank is really full of solids. The incoming pipe is usually above the level of the outgoing pipe/baffles, so it should be clear if it is full. If the incoming pipe is above the tank level, you have a clog. Peter T. > Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_thomas at comcast.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 30 17:34:16 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:34:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question In-Reply-To: References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com><007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall> > If the indoor coil > is an old, low efficiency model, attaching it to a modern (well, > moderner, but already obsolete) high-efficiency compressor will result > in *lower capacity and efficiency* than if it were the old > low-efficiency compressor. Care to expand on that concept, David? Remember the indoor unit is already oversized, so intended to handle more refrigerant flow than the old, inefficient compressor/condenser could produce. AFAIK, a "high efficiency" compressor/condenser mostly produces more refrigerant flow for the same power input ... are there other differences I'm not aware of ? And again, perhaps I'm out of date, but to my mind, changing a compressor is a few $100, while a new system is several $1000. The EPA claims the "average household" will only save $48/year by going from SEER 10 to SEER 13, meaning it will take a LONG time for a new system to pay for itself solely in energy saving. And who knows? Our government in it's infinite wisdom just might realize that "ozone depletion" by CFCs is a hoax (though I don't think it's likely). Randall From bjshov8 at tx.rr.com Fri Jul 30 18:42:34 2010 From: bjshov8 at tx.rr.com (BJNoSHOV8) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:42:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] shop sewer/septic tank prob In-Reply-To: <4C53537E.2070102@xxiii.com> References: <4C53537E.2070102@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <4C53717A.8000205@tx.rr.com> The small house I lived in 25 years ago had this problem. It had clay pipe leading from the house to the city sewer. There were several spots where roots could get into the pipes, and one spot where I think the pipe had broken or had been crushed partly because it was very difficult to get the snake past that spot. The first time we called the plumber they couldn't find the pipe underground, and we didn't have a cleanout, so they hauled the machine up on the roof and fed the snake down the vent stack (not stack vent). Once the snake got into the pipe we could hear it and that allowed us to find the pipe. They dug down and found a spot where a previous person had broken a hole in the side of the pipe to get their snake in, then they put a piece of sheet metal over the hole and filled in the dirt. Roots got into this spot real easily. After renting the machines myself many times, I got fed up, dug up the entire pipe from the house to the sidewalk, and replaced it with plastic including a cleanout. Never had any problems after that. > On 7/30/2010 6:01 PM, Jim Franklin wrote: >> On Jul 30, 2010, at 5:01 PM, John Niolon wrote: >>> got a nice weekend problem... septic tank seems to be ready to spew !! >>> drains running very slow... lots of gurgline >> >> In my experience that's roots in the sewer pipe. Rent a rooter if you >> can and >> auger it out. > > I'll 2nd the roots diagnosis. Sounds like something clogging the main > line between the house & tank. The 3" PVC line out of my place is > only about 4" underground. There was a hole cut in it; like a > roto-tiller or some power equipment during construction?? Nearby tree > found it and was going crazy on the free snack. From coles at colesnurseries.com Fri Jul 30 19:04:05 2010 From: coles at colesnurseries.com (Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc)) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:04:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series Message-ID: I have a bulldozer that has two batterys wired in series i.e. neg, pos to neg, pos. Can someone refresh my memory how to charge the two. I know I can charge them separately but is it possible to charge them together leaving the cables in place. Thanks, Dan From arvidj at visi.com Fri Jul 30 19:45:25 2010 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:45:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series References: Message-ID: <9287D3913D2B4998A27192E00E641E60@behavioral.com> If it really is in series then I think you essentially have a 24v battery with the advantage of the 12v tap center tap being exposed. I would either get a 24v battery charger ... not much chance of that ... or I would think that you could put two 12v chargers on it. Put one on each battery and it just happens that the positive of one charger will be on the same 12v center tap that the other battery charger's negative happens to be on. Yes, the chargers are "in series" but I think the load of the battery I'm can only assume that there are reasons this will not work perfectly, or may even at all, but that's how I would try to solve the problem. If I had smoke coming out of a charger after this experiment I would simply install a massive disconnect switch where the two batteries are connected to each other, turn off the switch to isolate the batteries, then hook the any chargers that I had left that were not smoking to each of the batteries like normal. Obviously you could simply disconnect the batteries instead of the massive switch, but I think that would get old after the second time and then I'd install the switch because I am lazy. Arvid ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc)" To: Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series >I have a bulldozer that has two batterys wired in series i.e. neg, pos to >neg, > pos. Can someone refresh my memory how to charge the two. I know I can > charge them separately but is it possible to charge them together leaving > the > cables in place. > Thanks, > Dan > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/arvidj at visi.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 30 19:57:35 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:57:35 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00e801cb3053$bf6335c0$0301a8c0@randall> > I have a bulldozer that has two batterys wired in series i.e. > neg, pos to neg, > pos. Can someone refresh my memory how to charge the two. I > know I can > charge them separately but is it possible to charge them > together leaving the cables in place. Sure, you just need a charger for the sum of the voltages (24v I'm guessing). Connect it to the two outside posts, observing polarity just like a regular charger. Each battery is just 6 cells in series anyway, so having two batteries in series is like having a single 12 cell battery. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 30 19:58:35 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:58:35 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series In-Reply-To: <9287D3913D2B4998A27192E00E641E60@behavioral.com> References: <9287D3913D2B4998A27192E00E641E60@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <00f201cb3053$e3267bc0$0301a8c0@randall> > I would think that you could put two 12v chargers on it. That would work, too. Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 20:07:19 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:07:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question In-Reply-To: <00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> <007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> <00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Randall wrote: >> B If the indoor coil >> is an old, low efficiency model, attaching it to a modern (well, >> moderner, but already obsolete) high-efficiency compressor will result >> in *lower capacity and efficiency* than if it were the old >> low-efficiency compressor. > > Care to expand on that concept, David? B Remember the indoor unit is already > oversized, so intended to handle more refrigerant flow than the old, > inefficient compressor/condenser could produce. > > AFAIK, a "high efficiency" compressor/condenser mostly produces more > refrigerant flow for the same power input ... are there other differences > I'm not aware of ? Lots and lots, it appears. High efficiency systems are just that, systems. They're engineered to work together. In high efficiency systems, the evaporator temperature has to be higher, and suction pressures are higher. If there's a mis-match, the system doesn't work well. The compressor wants 50F at the evaporator, and the evaporator's size rating is for operation at 40F. Suction pressure falls (often below what the older, lower pressure evap was designed for) and capacity and efficiency falls. Reliability goes down, as you're likely to have excessive head pressure as well, and you're likely to overheat the compressor. And the manufacturer will tell you to take a flying leap on a warranty claim, because you're not running a system they approve of. So, yeah, you can slap a compressor/condenser on the thing, and you'll get cool air. Probably not as cold as you want on hot days, or dry as you'd like on humid ones, and it'll cost you a lot to run, and won't last. But any professional who suggests you do this is not someone you want working for you. > And again, perhaps I'm out of date, but to my mind, changing a compressor is > a few $100, while a new system is several $1000. B The EPA claims the > "average household" will only save $48/year by going from SEER 10 to SEER > 13, meaning it will take a LONG time for a new system to pay for itself > solely in energy saving. How much you save depends entirely on climate, the building (a building with good insulation and low sun load is easier to keep cool. One that backs in the sun, and has a door constantly open (some stores and the like) is much, much harder), and power costs. The original poster didn't say where he was. If he's somewhere like Miami, which has 3000 coooling hours a year, in a building with a large sun load, and fairly high power costs, he could easily be looking at $2K a year. If he's in Boston, it'll be a lot less. But he's not going from a 10 to a 14. He's going from a 10 to an 8 or worse, and paying money to do it. And he's got a system that is apparently old, and is certainly obsolete. If he installs a compressor and condensor, even if he doesn't discover that the reduction in capacity means that it doesn't work well, he'll find out when the evaporator needs repair that it's going to cost a whole lot (no new parts, remember.) to fix. > And who knows? B Our government in it's infinite wisdom just might realize > that "ozone depletion" by CFCs is a hoax (though I don't think it's likely). > Since it's as much a hoax as, oh, gravity, not likely. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 30 20:28:04 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:28:04 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question In-Reply-To: References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com><007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall><00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <010501cb3058$01e1ed70$0301a8c0@randall> > The compressor wants 50F at the evaporator, and the > evaporator's size rating is for operation at 40F. With a 2 ton compressor. With the lower flow from a 1.5 ton, it will run warmer than that. > Suction pressure falls (often below what the older, lower pressure evap was designed > for) If the suction pressure falls below 40F, you're going to see icing big time. Not likely with an oversize evaporator. > Reliability goes down, as > you're likely to have excessive head pressure as well, Don't see how, with an oversize evaporator. > And the manufacturer will tell > you to take a flying leap on a warranty claim, because you're not > running a system they approve of. There is that. > How much you save depends entirely on climate, the building (a > building with good insulation and low sun load is easier to keep cool. Sure, but the _average_ is only $48. > And he's got a system that is apparently old, and is certainly > obsolete. That would apply to most of the things in my life, including me! > Since it's as much a hoax as, oh, gravity, not likely. Gravity is exactly the reason why it's a hoax! CFC molecules are WAY heavier than air. Finding them in the ozone layer (on top of the atmosphere) is about as likely as finding sand floating on the ocean. And there aren't any beaches up there. BTW, you can look it up. The "hole in the ozone" started going away just as soon as the sunspot cycle picked back up. Likely it was always there over the poles during any of the periodic lulls in sunspot activity (strong radiation is what creates the ozone in the first place) and we just weren't monitoring it. Randall From eltonclark at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 20:36:04 2010 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:36:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series In-Reply-To: <00f201cb3053$e3267bc0$0301a8c0@randall> References: <9287D3913D2B4998A27192E00E641E60@behavioral.com> <00f201cb3053$e3267bc0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: *Two 12 volt batteries in SERIES become a 24 volt battery . . If you don't wanna disconnect and charge as separate 12 volt batteries, buy one or these for just a maintenance charger. * ** http://www.batterymart.com/p-battery-tender-plus-24v-3a-wp-battery-charger.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=ComparisonShopping ** *If you need to charge at a high amperage rate, a 24 volt charger is XXXXXXpensive.* From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 20:52:28 2010 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:52:28 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question In-Reply-To: <010501cb3058$01e1ed70$0301a8c0@randall> References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> <007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> <00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall> <010501cb3058$01e1ed70$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:28 PM, Randall wrote: > Gravity is exactly the reason why it's a hoax! B CFC molecules are WAY > heavier than air. B Finding them in the ozone layer (on top of the > atmosphere) is about as likely as finding sand floating on the ocean. B And > there aren't any beaches up there. > > BTW, you can look it up. I could, but I've lost my supply of mind altering drugs, and so retain a belief in physics and reality, and claims that ozone depletion is driven by sunspots requires pretty massive doses of un-reality to believe. The claim that gaseous diffusion is driven entirely by gravity would require fatal doses. But if you'll give me DOIs, I'll read the articles. links to random raver websites won't be followed: just actual science. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From eltonclark at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 21:36:35 2010 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:36:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series In-Reply-To: References: <9287D3913D2B4998A27192E00E641E60@behavioral.com> <00f201cb3053$e3267bc0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: *There IS a "GUEST" brand of Marine chargers but explain how it charges EACH 12 volt battery while they are connected in series.* On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Don Denning wrote: > Or just go to a marine store and buy a Guess ??? battery charger which is > designed to charge each 12 volt battery while it's in series. About $105 as > I remember. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 30 22:48:35 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:48:35 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question In-Reply-To: References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com><007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall><00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall><010501cb3058$01e1ed70$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <000c01cb306b$a3004950$0301a8c0@randall> > and claims that ozone depletion is > driven by sunspots requires pretty massive doses of un-reality to > believe. That would ... it's actually radiation from the sun that creates the ozone in the first place. Ozone quickly decomposes on it's own, so it takes continuous radiation to keep a layer present. And the poles (where the "holes" are) don't get much radiation in the winter. But there is little point in belaboring the issue, since "everyone knows" I am wrong. And since we've already hopelessly poisoned the planet with CO2, it doesn't matter anyway. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 30 22:53:38 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:53:38 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series In-Reply-To: References: <9287D3913D2B4998A27192E00E641E60@behavioral.com><00f201cb3053$e3267bc0$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <000d01cb306c$57bbae70$0301a8c0@randall> > *There IS a "GUEST" brand of Marine chargers but explain how > it charges > EACH 12 volt battery while they are connected in series.* Appears to be simply two independent 12v chargers in the same box, but isolated from each other. Since they are isolated, they don't care if the batteries are connected in series or not. http://tinyurl.com/2v49x4o Randall From eltonclark at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 23:15:33 2010 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:15:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series In-Reply-To: <000d01cb306c$57bbae70$0301a8c0@randall> References: <9287D3913D2B4998A27192E00E641E60@behavioral.com> <00f201cb3053$e3267bc0$0301a8c0@randall> <000d01cb306c$57bbae70$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: *Soo . . A pos and neg connection for each 12 volt battery? 4 cables for each charger?* *It's just two chargers strapped together?* On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Randall wrote: > > *There IS a "GUEST" brand of Marine chargers but explain how > > it charges > > EACH 12 volt battery while they are connected in series.* > > Appears to be simply two independent 12v chargers in the same box, but > isolated from each other. Since they are isolated, they don't care if the > batteries are connected in series or not. > > http://tinyurl.com/2v49x4o > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/eltonclark at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Jul 31 00:47:09 2010 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:47:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] charging batterys in series In-Reply-To: References: <9287D3913D2B4998A27192E00E641E60@behavioral.com><00f201cb3053$e3267bc0$0301a8c0@randall><000d01cb306c$57bbae70$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <001d01cb307c$33383270$0301a8c0@randall> > *Soo . . A pos and neg connection for each 12 volt battery? > 4 cables for each charger?* That is the way I understand it; assuming I'm looking at the right product. "Our Guest battery chargers (2611, 2613, 2623, 2631) are pre-wired with both positive and negative leads for each battery. So you can connect the 5, 10, or 20 amp outputs to each (12 volt) battery regardless of a parallel, series, or independent set of 12 volt batteries." http://tinyurl.com/2e7er82 Randall From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat Jul 31 05:48:01 2010 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:48:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] HVAC question In-Reply-To: <000c01cb306b$a3004950$0301a8c0@randall> References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> <007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> <00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall> <010501cb3058$01e1ed70$0301a8c0@randall> <000c01cb306b$a3004950$0301a8c0@randall> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20100731074631.044eafb0@cox.net> At 12:48 AM 7/31/2010, Randall wrote: >> and claims that ozone depletion is driven by sunspots requires pretty >>massive doses of un-reality to believe. >But there is little point in belaboring the issue, since "everyone knows" I >am wrong. And since we've already hopelessly poisoned the planet with CO2, >it doesn't matter anyway. Don't forget that awful dihydrogen monoxide that's all over the place trying to kill everything in site. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From paul.mele at usermail.com Sat Jul 31 07:17:03 2010 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:17:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] dihydrogen monoxide In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20100731074631.044eafb0@cox.net> References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> <007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> <00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall> <010501cb3058$01e1ed70$0301a8c0@randall> <000c01cb306b$a3004950$0301a8c0@randall> <6.2.5.6.1.20100731074631.044eafb0@cox.net> Message-ID: <000001cb30b2$ab437d70$01ca7850$@mele@usermail.com> ...ESPECIALLY dangerous to those on an all-organic diet... PM From bk13 at earthlink.net Sat Jul 31 08:34:54 2010 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:34:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] dihydrogen monoxide In-Reply-To: <000001cb30b2$ab437d70$01ca7850$@mele@usermail.com> References: <4C533337.6060304@xxiii.com> <007301cb3029$eed267b0$0301a8c0@randall> <00aa01cb303f$b9bb8be0$0301a8c0@randall> <010501cb3058$01e1ed70$0301a8c0@randall> <000c01cb306b$a3004950$0301a8c0@randall> <6.2.5.6.1.20100731074631.044eafb0@cox.net> <000001cb30b2$ab437d70$01ca7850$@mele@usermail.com> Message-ID: <4C54348E.5050401@earthlink.net> Read all about it at the web site for the Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division - http://www.dhmo.org/ Before you leave the site, but after looking around, check the press kit. I have some of their material and the MSDS for DHMO posted at my office to help spread the word. Brian Paul Mele wrote: > the place trying to > kill everything in site. > > John> > > ...ESPECIALLY dangerous to those on an all-organic diet... > > PM > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bk13 at earthlink.net From cavanadd at verizon.net Sat Jul 31 21:22:23 2010 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:22:23 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Exploding storm door In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C54E86F.2040805@verizon.net> The upper half of my storm door has exploded...twice. It's a conventional storm door, upper and lower window. The upper is fixed, the lower can raise or lower for ventilation (screen behind it.) Twice now the upper pane has just exploded. It's tempered glass so it makes a million little pieces that I have to vacuum up out of the cracks between the deck boards. The first time it (apparently) happened when we weren't around because my wife just noticed the door broken. Today when she opened the main door it exploded inward, apparently from the suction of opening the main door. All I can think of is thermal cycling is weakening the door or it's expanding into the frame which may be keeping it from expanding freely or something. (The door faces due east and the front door behind it is white.) Oddly enough it was pretty cool, in the low 70s and cloudy all morning. It seems like if this was a common problem I would have heard of it before. I'm thinking of replacing it with polycarbonate this time. Any ideas? Thanks Dave From mdporter at dfn.com Sat Jul 31 22:01:33 2010 From: mdporter at dfn.com (Michael Porter) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 22:01:33 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Exploding storm door In-Reply-To: <4C54E86F.2040805@verizon.net> References: <4C54E86F.2040805@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4C54F19D.5030000@dfn.com> David C. wrote: > The upper half of my storm door has exploded...twice. > > All I can think of is thermal cycling is weakening the door or it's > expanding into the frame which may be keeping it from expanding freely > or something. (The door faces due east and the front door behind it > is white.) Oddly enough it was pretty cool, in the low 70s and cloudy > all morning. Tempered glass resists impacts normal to the surface quite well. On the edges, not at all well. If the frame contracts around the glass and there's inadequate cushioning around the edges, that could be a contributing cause. As well, if the glass is scratched by raising the bottom panel, the stress concentrations around those could help along the fractures. I suspect this is a design flaw that doesn't show up except in cases of extreme cycling and only after a certain number of cycles. > > > It seems like if this was a common problem I would have heard of it > before. I'm thinking of replacing it with polycarbonate this time. Polycarbonate would be a good substitute. Be willing to pay extra for the anti-yellowing anti-UV and anti-scratch coatings, and accept that the material has special cleaning requirements and it will give better service than the factory replacements. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....