From arvidj at visi.com Fri May 1 08:09:35 2009 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:09:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Looking for a small fan motor ... References: <2DEE2B2A68D549019A0B9A9C5DEDF8CE@behavioral.com> <20090430013341.GA40776@sackheads.org> Message-ID: <1442FEE834964712ACA6EECFA351CF3A@behavioral.com> Thanks to all that responsed. The list price on the "official" motor appears to be $236 and the wholesale price apprears to be about $77. I've not been able to find anyone who will sell it to a "mere mortal" for the wholesale price and the lowest I've been able to find it on the web is $145. So I am still looking for alternatives. A bank of four muffin fans is coming to mind. Arvid From kvacek at ameritech.net Fri May 1 08:39:23 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:39:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media Message-ID: <0C0955A8639C4E649F716628E0E12891@KARL> Though I planned to make a mobile stand and water filter first, I just couldn't wait to try my HF cabinet. It IS a religious experience to have a blast cabinet !! I bought HF-s genuine Chinese imitation glass beads - one grade fits all. They work OK, but are the beads really supposed to be microscopic bits of glass dust ? ISTR that in the cabinet at work many years ago they were recognizably beads, and not that microscopic - as in they were at least large enough that you could see that they were mostly round. What sort of media have you guys been using most successfully for general paint and rust removal ? I also want to try walnut shells - for aluminum or soft things (like carb bodies) and anything where tiny grit means later failure. They sell 12 and 24 grit - do I get the larger and wait till it becomes smaller, or what's the strategy ? And are there any tricks to purging all the grit from the cabinet before switching to walnut shells, corn cobs, etc. ? Do you perhaps clean it well, and then put in some of the soft media and spray it around to entrain all the hard stuff, then discard that and clean the cabinet again before refilling and using it ?? Or isn't it that critical ?? Thanks ! Karl From jamesf at groupwbench.org Fri May 1 08:42:38 2009 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Soaking container for Berryman's chem-dip? Message-ID: I'm going to be soaking a rack of 4 carburetors from a motorcycle, and I need a rectangular container since they won't fit in the container as a unit. Something about the size of a computer keyboard and about 6" deep, that won't dissolve from the Berryman's. thanks, jim From cak at dimebank.com Fri May 1 09:19:58 2009 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Soaking container for Berryman's chem-dip? Message-ID: <200905011519.n41FJwuf005004@moose.dimebank.com> The first thing that comes to mind is a galvanized steel liner for a planter box. From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Fri May 1 09:34:31 2009 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:34:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media In-Reply-To: <0C0955A8639C4E649F716628E0E12891@KARL> Message-ID: I have never used it personally, but I took a delicate piece to a commercial blaster who used BAKING SODA on it. Did a fine job with no damage. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Karl Vacek Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 10:39 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media Though I planned to make a mobile stand and water filter first, I just couldn't wait to try my HF cabinet. It IS a religious experience to have a blast cabinet !! I bought HF-s genuine Chinese imitation glass beads - one grade fits all. They work OK, but are the beads really supposed to be microscopic bits of glass dust ? ISTR that in the cabinet at work many years ago they were recognizably beads, and not that microscopic - as in they were at least large enough that you could see that they were mostly round. What sort of media have you guys been using most successfully for general paint and rust removal ? I also want to try walnut shells - for aluminum or soft things (like carb bodies) and anything where tiny grit means later failure. They sell 12 and 24 grit - do I get the larger and wait till it becomes smaller, or what's the strategy ? And are there any tricks to purging all the grit from the cabinet before switching to walnut shells, corn cobs, etc. ? Do you perhaps clean it well, and then put in some of the soft media and spray it around to entrain all the hard stuff, then discard that and clean the cabinet again before refilling and using it ?? Or isn't it that critical ?? Thanks ! Karl You are subscribed as gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From leavcast at gmail.com Fri May 1 10:11:01 2009 From: leavcast at gmail.com (George) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:11:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media References: Message-ID: Soda requires additional equipment for your blaster. On my want list. George Castleberry 54 Austin Healey 100 59 Austin Healey Bugeye 73 GMC motorhome Flagstaff, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Brazil" To: "'Karl Vacek'" ; Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Blasting media >I have never used it personally, but I took a delicate piece to a >commercial > blaster who used BAKING SODA on it. Did a fine job with no damage. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri May 1 11:29:35 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:29:35 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media In-Reply-To: <0C0955A8639C4E649F716628E0E12891@KARL> References: <0C0955A8639C4E649F716628E0E12891@KARL> Message-ID: <5CEF4B5787E341B69B20845E250C4FE0@jdnet.deere.com> > I bought HF-s genuine Chinese imitation glass beads - one grade fits all. > They work OK, but are the beads really supposed to be microscopic bits of > glass dust ? That sounds like you got their "ground glass" media, instead of the "glass bead" media. I have their "glass bead", and it is recognizably balls of glass under a magnifying lens. I got it to use on soft aluminum (carbs & brake cylinders), for which it works quite well IMO. But it is frustratingly slow at removing iron rust, or healthy paint. Haven't tried it myself yet, but I would think you could do a pretty good job of cleaning up with just a regular air gun. With my table-top cabinet, you have to upend it to dump out the media anyway, so it's bound to make a mess. But if it's something really critical, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to sacrifice some of the new media as a 'flush'. -- Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Fri May 1 13:39:52 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:39:52 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media References: <0C0955A8639C4E649F716628E0E12891@KARL> <5CEF4B5787E341B69B20845E250C4FE0@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: <395E6A3150D3459DBE05691E5998AF38@KARL> The package says #8 Glass Beads. Under a magnifying glass, there are certainly some beads in there, and lots of fines - of course, I happen to have grabbed a HF magniflying glass too. I'd guess it's maybe 20% beads - sort of what I'd expect to see after lots of blasting. Or maybe what you might expect from fresh HF glass beads :-( Glass beads are what I've almost always used in the past, except before I knew better than to use 100-grit silica sand (and that was open blasting). What do you use for rust and paint ? Aluminum oxide ? Black Beauty slag ? Karl > That sounds like you got their "ground glass" media, instead of the "glass > bead" media. I have their "glass bead", and it is recognizably balls of > glass under a magnifying lens. > > I got it to use on soft aluminum (carbs & brake cylinders), for which it > works quite well IMO. But it is frustratingly slow at removing iron rust, > or > healthy paint. > > Haven't tried it myself yet, but I would think you could do a pretty good > job of cleaning up with just a regular air gun. With my table-top > cabinet, > you have to upend it to dump out the media anyway, so it's bound to make a > mess. > > But if it's something really critical, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to > sacrifice some of the new media as a 'flush'. From doug at dougbraun.com Fri May 1 13:49:07 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media Message-ID: <399351.88277.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is there a Tractor Supply store near you? I got a barrel of beads there, and they work OK for me. They also carry Black Beauty, which I like a lot, but it will get the inside of your blast cabinet a bit messy. I made a blast cabinet 3 years ago, and it has been EXTREMELY useful! I also have Eastwood's soda blasting adapter kit installed on my generic Chinese pressure blaster. Soda blasting is great. You can do it while wearing a bathing suit! The only downsides are that the media is pricey, and it does not remove rust at all. Doug --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Karl Vacek wrote: > From: Karl Vacek > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Blasting media > To: "Randall" , shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 3:39 PM > The package says #8 Glass > Beads. Under a magnifying glass, there are certainly > some beads in there, and lots of fines - of course, I happen > to have grabbed a HF magniflying glass too. > > I'd guess it's maybe 20% beads - sort of what I'd expect to > see after lots of blasting. Or maybe what you might > expect from fresh HF glass beads :-( > > Glass beads are what I've almost always used in the past, > except before I knew better than to use 100-grit silica sand > (and that was open blasting). What do you use for rust and > paint ? Aluminum oxide ? Black Beauty slag ? > > Karl From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri May 1 14:21:47 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 16:21:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media In-Reply-To: <0C0955A8639C4E649F716628E0E12891@KARL> References: <0C0955A8639C4E649F716628E0E12891@KARL> Message-ID: <49FB59DB.6010805@xxiii.com> Karl Vacek wrote: > couldn't wait to try my HF cabinet. It IS a religious experience to have a > blast cabinet !! I got me a gen-U-ine NASCAR blast cabinet! If I gave a rat's about NASCAR it might be religious ;) Andy Petree Racing used to operate out of my town here, but closed up 4 years ago and auctioned everything off. In its old life, it was dedicated to blasting a surface finish on valves in their cylinder head shop. I paid too much for it, but it's a Skat Blast that works better than others I've used, and I told the wife I got it cheap, hehe. > I bought HF-s genuine Chinese imitation glass beads - one grade fits all. > They work OK, but are the beads really supposed to be microscopic bits of > glass dust ? ISTR that in the cabinet at work many years ago they were I got a bag of glass with mine, and later bought some from Northern Tool. They're both finer than say salt or sugar you'd find in the kitchen. Almost powdery. If it gets on my epoxy floor, it's like millions of little ball bearings that make it as slick as wet ice! Works great on aluminum and not-too-dirty steel. Almost chews up aluminum a little more than I'd like; but badly like Al2O3 I've used in blasters at work. -Wayne From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri May 1 17:09:18 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:09:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Blasting media In-Reply-To: <395E6A3150D3459DBE05691E5998AF38@KARL> References: <0C0955A8639C4E649F716628E0E12891@KARL><5CEF4B5787E341B69B20845E250C4FE0@jdnet.deere.com> <395E6A3150D3459DBE05691E5998AF38@KARL> Message-ID: > The package says #8 Glass Beads. Under a magnifying glass, there are > certainly some beads in there, and lots of fines - of course, I happen to > have grabbed a HF magniflying glass too. Must be another example of HF's outstanding quality control, then. That's what mine looks like AFTER it's been used awhile. > What do you use for rust and paint ? Aluminum oxide ? Black Beauty slag My plan is to use Black Beauty; but as yet I've not done enough to make it worth changing media. So far, I've just lived with the beads being slow; and painted over any paint that doesn't want to come off. I'll revisit the whole blast cabinet thing after I get the new air compressor plumbed up. I got it mounted, and power run to it, but haven't laid in the air line from the backyard to the garage yet. Need to build a shelter for it, too. -- Randall From ericm at lne.com Mon May 4 18:32:12 2009 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 17:32:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Gopher control Message-ID: <20090505003212.GI17601@slack.lne.com> A long time ago I wrote about my gopher problem.... big lawn, lots of gophers. I got some good advice to use lye and chlorine bleach. That's worked ok for some years but recently the government put lye on the watch list because it's used for making meth... buy some and you get on a government list. Not wanting a no-knock raid on my rural home, I stopped buying lye. The gophers have gotten out of control. But last month my wife was at a gardening seminar and got a flyer for "Gophers Limited" which is a local gopher-eradication service. (http://www.gopherslimited.com/) The owner is pretty good about sharing his information. One bit of which is that he uses "cinch traps". I looked at some of his videos on youtube and bought six traps from http://www.wildlifecontrolsupplies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=NWS001&Product_Code=NWSCT01 (they had them cheaper than the Gophers Limited guy and I could order in lots of 2 instead of only 2 or 12). I got the smaller mole traps since we have small gophers here in California. I got them today and set them. Within two hours I had caught two gophers. One was big enough that he barely fit the trap. I think these are better than the lye and bleach or anything else I have tried (poison, poison gas bombs, juicyfruit gum, shooting), and they are reuseable. Eric From mark at bradakis.com Wed May 6 00:47:12 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 00:47:12 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net status Message-ID: <20090506064712.7FAEE2E082@bradakis.com> Yes, there have been problems with the Team.Net mailing lists, related web pages, FTP stuff and such. And it ain't over yet. It should all be fine by next week, though. The current ISP providing Team.Net connectivity along with several other domains and network related services is Qwest. Saturday, May 2nd, they cut off my network access. They have been recieving complaints about "malicious activity" from one of my servers. It has happened before. The first time I actually spent many hours on the phone over a period of several days and found out the nature of the "malicious activity." Someone too lazy or too stupid to click on the 'unsubscribe' link for one of the mailing lists was flagging all incoming Team.Net emails as spam. Once I finally managed to penetrate deep into the Qwest support to find someone with more than a single digit IQ, it took me just a few seconds to remove the braindead A-hole from the lists to which they subscribed. It happened again a while back, again I took the time and effort to finally get to the root of the problem and removed the whining piece of human debris from the appropriate list. This time I've had enough. It is so frustrating to have to go through their entire little debugging script *every time* I talk to a new person about it: Them: What operating system are you running? Me: Unix, FreeBSD 6.2 Them: No, I mean are you running Vista, XP or Windows 98? Me: Like I said, I'm running Unix, FreeBSD 6.2. I am NOT running Windows, just like I told all the other ... You know, a lot of people who just use computers as a basic appliance would not understand the details of that conversation, they have no need to. But tech support people working for a major company like Qwest? How do people that incompetent get through the first job interview? Do they have anyone on their staff who can even *spell* Unix?? At any rate, the problem that Qwest claims I have is still not resolved, they will most likely once again cut off my network access soon. As I said, I've had enough. On Friday, May 8th I will be changing from Qwest to XMission, located here in Salt Lake, for Team.Net ISP service. The changeover will result in Team.Net services being unavailable for a few days. IP addresses, nameserver data, etc. will take a day or two or so to percolate through the network. So expect sporadic service over the next few days, but it should all settle down by early next week. Thank you for your patience. mjb. From scott.hall at comcast.net Wed May 6 09:40:23 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:40:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net status In-Reply-To: <20090506064712.7FAEE2E082@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <1411619397.5947361241624423845.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> heyzeus marimba. mark, that's a ton of crap to put up with so I can ask people how to run an air line in my garage. I am moved to help defray some of the monetary costs--if not the psychic ones--of running the lists. it's team.net/donate, yes? and if I can see it, then a credit card will go through and make it to you eventually, whether your i.s.p. is up or not? replied to all because, damn, that's a lot of work on my behalf. maybe a $10-spot from all of us would go a long ways? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J Bradakis" To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:47:12 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net status Yes, there have been problems with the Team.Net mailing lists, related web pages, FTP stuff and such. And it ain't over yet. It should all be fine by next week, though. On Friday, May 8th I will be changing from Qwest to XMission, located here in Salt Lake, for Team.Net ISP service. The changeover will result in Team.Net services being unavailable for a few days. IP addresses, nameserver data, etc. will take a day or two or so to percolate through the network. So expect sporadic service over the next few days, but it should all settle down by early next week. Thank you for your patience. From pat at hornesystemstx.com Wed May 6 09:46:21 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:46:21 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net status In-Reply-To: <1411619397.5947361241624423845.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1411619397.5947361241624423845.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A01B0CD.4040401@hornesystemstx.com> Scott, There is a link at the bottom of Mar's emails for donations, as well as at the bottom of each email we receive from the list. Peace, Pat Thusly spake scott.hall at comcast.net, On 5/6/2009 10:40 AM: > heyzeus marimba. > > mark, that's a ton of crap to put up with so I can ask people how to run an air line in my garage. I am moved to help defray some of the monetary costs--if not the psychic ones--of running the lists. > > it's team.net/donate, yes? and if I can see it, then a credit card will go through and make it to you eventually, whether your i.s.p. is up or not? > > replied to all because, damn, that's a lot of work on my behalf. maybe a $10-spot from all of us would go a long ways? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark J Bradakis" > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:47:12 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected > Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net status > > Yes, there have been problems with the Team.Net mailing > lists, related web pages, FTP stuff and such. And it ain't > over yet. It should all be fine by next week, though. > > > > On Friday, May 8th I will be changing from Qwest to XMission, > located here in Salt Lake, for Team.Net ISP service. The > changeover will result in Team.Net services being unavailable > for a few days. IP addresses, nameserver data, etc. will take > a day or two or so to percolate through the network. > > So expect sporadic service over the next few days, but it should > all settle down by early next week. > > Thank you for your patience. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From scott.hall at comcast.net Wed May 6 11:31:34 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 17:31:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net status In-Reply-To: <4A01B0CD.4040401@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <504248036.6009381241631094222.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> well look at that...I delete all that out of habit from the days when if you didn't, the message wouldn't get posted. I don't think I've ever really looked at the .sig stuff. 'course now we're chewing bandwidth posting this... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Horne" To: "scott hall" Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 11:46:21 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Team.Net status Scott, There is a link at the bottom of Mar's emails for donations, as well as at the bottom of each email we receive from the list. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed May 6 14:45:48 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 16:45:48 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net status In-Reply-To: <20090506064712.7FAEE2E082@bradakis.com> References: <20090506064712.7FAEE2E082@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <4A01F6FC.4040708@xxiii.com> Mark J Bradakis wrote: > Someone too lazy or too stupid to click on the 'unsubscribe' > link for one of the mailing lists was flagging all incoming > Team.Net emails as spam. Once I finally managed to penetrate > deep into the Qwest support to find someone with more than a What incredible jackassery! Please post their names, so we can be sure not to inadvertently do anything nice for them, should we meet at the track or tool store! Most my spam reporting falls on deaf ears; though I did manage to get Cherylandco.com a well deserved eviction from their ISP 10 years ago, haha. Dumb bitch. Whom were these guys reporting to that actually got someone's attention? -Wayne From doug at dougbraun.com Wed May 6 20:48:04 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 19:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing bits of rod and tubing? Message-ID: <58269.85904.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I'm trying to clean up my garage, and I have a big bunch of pieces of metal tubing, angle iron, threaded rod, plastic pipe, wooden dowels, etc. They range from about 2 to 4 feet long. Does anyone have a cool way to store this type of stuff, so it does not take up too much space, remains tidy, and the shorter bits do not get totally hidden by the longer ones? Doug From cavanadd at verizon.net Wed May 6 23:03:19 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 22:03:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing bits of rod and tubing? In-Reply-To: <58269.85904.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <58269.85904.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A026B97.1080502@verizon.net> I make vertical storage bins out of PVC pipe of various diameters and lengths. I always seem to have scrap PVC pipe in sizes from 2 to 6" inches or so laying around. I cut several pieces of varying diameters to appropriate lengths, attach them vertically to a scrap of plywood, and attach the plywood to the wall. Then put the long/skinny stuff in the appropriate tube. I have one such storage setup attached to the end of the radial arm saw cabinet to hold dowels and useful pieces of lath, and another over by the metal lathe to hold smaller sizes of round and flat bar, all thread, long pieces of key stock, etc. To attach the PVC to the plywood: Mark at least two locations on the side of the PVC pipe at each end. On the drill press, drill through one side with a 3/4" spade bit and let the spur penetrate the opposite side. Use the big hole as an access point to put a screw through the back side to attach it to the plywood or other substrate. Although my storage is only one rank, there's no reason, given available space, you couldn't have several ranks of storage tubes, tall in back, short in front. Doug Braun wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to clean up my garage, and I have a big bunch of pieces of metal tubing, angle iron, threaded rod, plastic pipe, wooden dowels, etc. They range from about 2 to 4 feet long. > > Does anyone have a cool way to store this type of stuff, so it does not take up too much space, remains tidy, and the shorter bits do not get totally hidden by the longer ones? > > Doug > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From jibjib at att.net Wed May 6 23:47:22 2009 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 22:47:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing bits of rod and tubing? In-Reply-To: <58269.85904.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <58269.85904.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doug, Mailing and/or drawing tubes. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Braun Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 7:48 PM To: Shop-Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing bits of rod and tubing? Hello, I'm trying to clean up my garage, and I have a big bunch of pieces of metal tubing, angle iron, threaded rod, plastic pipe, wooden dowels, etc. They range from about 2 to 4 feet long. Does anyone have a cool way to store this type of stuff, so it does not take up too much space, remains tidy, and the shorter bits do not get totally hidden by the longer ones? Doug You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From mark at sccaprepared.com Thu May 7 12:41:42 2009 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions Message-ID: Howdy, Ok, I'm looking into options for building a garage. Due to money, I need to do as much of it myself as is reasonable, balanced with timeliness. Step 1 is to have some plans. That's the step I'm on. :-) Step 2 is to almost certainly pay someone to pour the floor and build the exterior shell. I.e. get the building up, with no electric, plumbing, insulation, interior walls, or any non-structural work done, but weather tight. Step 3 is for me to get the rest of the work done. Step 3 could literally take years, though I'd work to get the electric & insulation done reasonably quickly. Anyway, before I can get someone to quote step 2, I need to have plans. And me being me and my wife being herself, there isn't an example of "that one" I can find on the various ready made plans. If it were just me, I'd probably do it as an (ugly) pole building / steel building which is 'easy'. If it were just Laura, she'd probably pick some plans that look nice and would look nice with the house (and there are plenty of those ready made) but have some functional stuff I don't like. Currently the closest plan I've found ready made is this one: http://justgarageplans.com/63/plan-detail/2303.php Of course, that has a couple drawbacks... First, the stairwell is in the middle of the workspace and I really want it over on the left wall and to have no walls between the two garage sections. Presumably that wall is load bearing though, so "just move it" isn't going to fly. 2nd, they seem to be using trusses for the roof / 2nd story on the main section and I'd really rather have regular floor joist / rafter construction, so that I can make the 2nd story dormer 'functional' as well as having a similar dormer (or perhaps shed roof or two smaller dormers) on the back roof. Again though, that's all structural so I don't know if that means I'd need a big beam down the center of that section supported by posts, etc. I've talked to an architect about this, and him doing the plans for me from scratch along with having a structural engineer size stuff would be on the order of $3k to $4k. And that's at his "friends and family" rate of $60/hour not the normal $90/hour (he's the son of our neighbor and lives in Seattle as well, so perhaps those rates are higher than is typical?) After talking with him, I'm really wondering if I need the architect part of the deal vs. the structural engineer part. I don't have issues designing the building in terms of knowing what I want and being able to trade stuff off, my issue is not knowing what the tradeoffs are (for instance, is it realistic to have an unsupported in the center beam 26' long holding up 17' floor joists on either side, coupled with a standard rafter roof that's 34' wide at the base?) If money wasn't an object, there wouldn't be an issue and I could just pay the $4k for plans or whatever and I'd be done with that part. However money is very much an issue... In my ideal world I'd be able to get the shell built for $15k or less, would be happy to get it done for $20k or less, and would probably find a way to pay up to $30k if that's what it required. With that kinda budget, $5k for an architect doesn't seem very likely. Hell, for that matter, with that kinda budget I don't know if this is possible if the plans were completely free, but of course I can't know that until I get some estimates from builders which I can't do without plans. Anyway... If anyone is or knows a structural engineer, that'd be super useful. It'd totally be worth paying for a couple hours of time to have them say "yeah, that won't add much to the costs so quote the plan as is" or "you're smoking the crack" or whatever. Thanks! Mark (Oh, I live in Youngstown, OH. There's no zoning here to worry about, but I haven't yet called the permit office to find out what they require in terms of drawings for a new garage either). From ejrussell at mebtel.net Thu May 7 13:11:46 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 15:11:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Talk to an experienced builder/framer. They will know what can & can't be done. However, if your zoning requirements call for a structural engineer then that may not count... And one can certainly have a 'real' dormer with truss construction. A truss company will be able to engineer what you want (or tell you to lay off the wacky tobacco). And, whatever you do, do not browse this website: www.garagejournal.com Specifically the forum section. (you've been warned...) My garage expansion project has started. Some photos here: http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/570714378cIOpnc Second story ("bonus room") floor trusses spanning 22' then roof trusses & 3 'real' dormers. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Andy" > Ok, I'm looking into options for building a garage. Due to money, I need > to do as much of it myself as is reasonable, balanced with timeliness. > > Step 1 is to have some plans. That's the step I'm on. :-) From jblair1948 at cox.net Thu May 7 13:58:15 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 15:58:15 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions (1 of 2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20090507151311.01cdd050@cox.net> At 02:41 PM 5/7/2009, Mark Andy wrote: >Ok, I'm looking into options for building a garage. Due to money, I need to do >as much of it myself as is reasonable, balanced with timeliness. > >Step 1 is to have some plans. That's the step I'm on. :-) Mark, I think there is something before step 1. I think you really have to define what you want vs what you need. Do you want 4 bays, but need 2. Do you need that second bay (in the plans you linked to) for an RV or do you just want to be able to put a car on a lift? You should be able to get an estimate of $XX/sq ft to build a garage, finished or unfinished. The more fancy dormers, the more windows, the type of doors all will change the final cost. For example you, the shop you linked to would be about 1,538 sq ft. If it costs $50/sq ft to build a building in your area then you're looking at about 75,000 which is well above your max. budget of $30K. About 15 yrs ago my dad was looking into moving and having a shop build. He wanted 6 bays wide X 1 deep (so about 72' wide x 20' deep = 1,440 sq ft) and some of that 2 stories. The estimate was about $65K. Do you want a dirty room? A place for power tools? I also had an estimate to extend my 2 bay garage, 1 bay forward and 2 wide. Again this was about 15 yrs ago. The estimate to rough it in was about $14K. So you should be able to talk to a builder or architect to get a rough idea of the cost per sq ft in your area. Start there and figure out what you can afford. Then start looking at trimming things or adding to it to stay within your budget. I would strongly suggest that if you only want 1 bay deep that you look at at least 1 1/2 deep. This will give you room to put tools on rollers and back them up against the far wall. I'd also go at least 1/2 wider than you'd like. So for a 2 car garage, I'd go 1 1/2 by 2 1/2. I'd plan on the ceiling being high enough for a lift - so say something over 13' high. You might also want to think about heat and AC. -- continued -- John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From jblair1948 at cox.net Thu May 7 13:57:52 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 15:57:52 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions (2 of 2) Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20090507155723.01cdd198@cox.net> >Anyway, before I can get someone to quote step 2, I need to have plans. To get a firm price yes, but to get a rough idea no. In fact you could create a spread sheet to generate a rough list of building materials. I've done it before. >If it were just Laura, she'd probably pick some plans that look nice and would >look nice with the house (and there are plenty of those ready made) but have >some functional stuff I don't like. She might be surprised when she sees the difference in cost of a basic building as compared to a fancy one (with dormers, shutters, and other fru fru stuff). >Currently the closest plan I've found ready made is this one: >http://justgarageplans.com/63/plan-detail/2303.php Nice! >Of course, that has a couple drawbacks... First, the stairwell is in the middle of >the workspace and I really want it over on the left wall and to have no walls >between the two garage sections. Presumably that wall is load bearing though, >so "just move it" isn't going to fly. The center wall does appear to be load bearing. You may find that you could run the span you want, but at what cost. You could have engineered I beam made. My dad's started as a standard 2 wide x 1 deep. We extended it to a 4 bay - 2 wide x 2 deep garage. Then he decided to add another bay on the right side. So we used the existing wall. It is nice to have some things, especially a dirty room off to the side to do sand blasting, grinding, etc. But is also a pain having to go either in the front door, or to the back little pass through door. >so that I can make the 2nd story dormer 'functional' as well as having a similar >dormer (or perhaps shed roof or two smaller dormers) on the back roof. If you keep it simple construction, why not a barn or double gambreled (?) roof. This would give you max. head room and use of the upstairs. Do you really need the upstairs? Again keeping cost in mind. >I don't have issues designing the building in terms of knowing what I want and >being able to trade stuff off, my issue is not knowing what the tradeoffs are (for >instance, is it realistic to have an unsupported in the center beam 26' long >holding up 17' floor joists on either side, coupled with a standard rafter roof >that's 34' wide at the base?) Then why not try and draw up something you think you'd like. Then see about an estimate. It shouldn't be that hard to estimate the cost of the raw materials. Again, use a spread sheet template. >In my ideal world I'd be able to get the shell built for $15k or less, would be >happy to get it done for $20k or less, and would probably find a way to pay up >to $30k if that's what it required. Again the more work you can do, the cheaper it will be. You could look build the entire building, with the exception of the trusses, or engineered I beams and save a good bit of money. Maybe get some of your friends to help. Build the walls on the ground then errect them. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From mikey at b2systems.com Thu May 7 14:41:03 2009 From: mikey at b2systems.com (mike rambour) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 13:41:03 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1241728863.6900.51.camel@WebBrowser> > And, whatever you do, do not browse this website: www.garagejournal.com > Specifically the forum section. (you've been warned...) I agree, do not browse that website above, do not go to http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24585 and see my garage. When you go to that website, plan a few hours to browse :) I started out with Google Sketchup as my drawing/drafting project, it saved me tons of money since I could show my architect EXACTLY what I wanted and he could use my drawings for a start. When we were finished he told me that my drawings really saved him a lot of time on what I wanted and in turn that saved me lots of money. He also liked that I was able to tell him exactly what I wanted and he did not have to guess and/or hope that what he was drawing was what I wanted. I had the trusses in Sketchup, then the roof and even the siding to show my wife and then the architect. I went to the city with rough drawings from Sketchup and asked what I could do and not do, once I knew the rules and which ones I could "bend", I drew up what I wanted, took it to the city and showed them again, they gave it a non-official "Yeah, it looks like you could build that" and then got my architect involved. His fees ended up being $2,800 and he did all the leg work involved in actually getting the permits. It actually was not quite that easy...but it worked. Now to your comments about putting up 4 walls and finishing it yourself later, in my town I had to have power brought in, I could not build without power and basic circuits in. One light in each section, one plug in each section is the bare minimum. In my case I needed the structural engineer because I was tying into the existing garage, so the city wanted to see that engineers stamp :( but I was happy with it, the architect came in a told me things that I did not think of, like drainage that would have been insufficient. If it had not been for tying in with the old garage, I might have been able to go with Sketchup entirely but I would have made mistakes that my architect caught. I had the slab poured, considered doing the walls but for time reasons, had the walls built BUT I did the siding to save money and of course will do the interior myself. mike From mark at sccaprepared.com Thu May 7 14:48:10 2009 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 16:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions (1 of 2) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20090507151311.01cdd050@cox.net> References: <6.2.5.6.0.20090507151311.01cdd050@cox.net> Message-ID: Howdy, On Thu, 7 May 2009, John T. Blair wrote: >> Step 1 is to have some plans. That's the step I'm on. :-) > > I think there is something before step 1. I think you really have to > define what you want vs what you need. Do you want 4 bays, but need 2. > Do you need that second bay (in the plans you linked to) for an RV or do > you just want to be able to put a car on a lift? This is all fairly grey, of course. It breaks down sorta like this: Truely Need: None of it. We've been here five years and I haven't had it, so its not like I die without it. Need: Probably the smallest workshop I can get away with that will function as a workshop would be a 24x24 standard garage with a 16x8-ish door. At that size I can only have one project going at a time, no lift, and will be cramped from day one. Need/Want: Room for a lift bay & a longer term project bay, plus room for bigger tools like blast cabinets, tire machine / balancer, parts washer, lathe, mill, drill press, benches, etc. along with some storage. Want: the above plus a finished office, room to store/work on the RV and/or enclosed trailer inside, separate machining, dirty fab, and woodworking rooms, another project bay. The plans I linked to (http://justgarageplans.com/63/plan-detail/2303.php) are targeted pretty squarely at the Need/Want section, keeping in mind my wife's "doesn't look like a big pole building" desires. If we can't afford that, then I'll back down closer to "Need", trying to keep my options for future expansion open to add a lift bay. > For example you, the shop you linked to would be about 1,538 sq ft. If > it costs $50/sq ft to build a building in your area then you're looking > at about 75,000 which is well above your max. budget of $30K. This is part of what I need to learn... I know there are rules of thumb for $$/sq. ft of building, but I don't know if there are ones that account for me doing all the interior work, etc. Thanks! Mark From jblair1948 at cox.net Thu May 7 15:32:27 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 17:32:27 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions (1 of 2) In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.0.20090507151311.01cdd050@cox.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20090507173112.01d8e698@cox.net> At 04:48 PM 5/7/2009, Mark Andy wrote: >>For example you, the shop you linked to would be about 1,538 sq ft. If it costs >>$50/sq ft to build a building in your area then you're looking at about 75,000 >>which is well above your max. budget of $30K. >This is part of what I need to learn... I know there are rules of thumb for $$/sq. >ft of building, but I don't know if there are ones that account for me doing all >the interior work, etc. Mark, I'm sure there are. Finished and unfinished. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From battmain at yahoo.com Thu May 7 17:15:49 2009 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 16:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <320864.27347.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> (sigh) Yes, I know I was warned. Looks like $2k will be gone soon for a Max Jack. Plus a few additional for a properly sized concrete drill. (sigh) Yes I was warned. Argh! :) Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Eric J Russell To: Mark Andy ; shop-talk Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2009 3:11:46 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions (snip) And, whatever you do, do not browse this website: www.garagejournal.com Specifically the forum section. (you've been warned...) (snip) From mikey at b2systems.com Thu May 7 17:24:54 2009 From: mikey at b2systems.com (mike rambour) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 16:24:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions In-Reply-To: <320864.27347.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <320864.27347.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1241738694.6900.87.camel@WebBrowser> you were warned by 2 of us !!! and you still went ... there is a word for that :) mike On Thu, 2009-05-07 at 16:15 -0700, Battmain wrote: > (sigh) Yes, I know I was warned. Looks like $2k will > be gone soon for a Max > Jack. Plus a few additional for > a properly sized concrete drill. (sigh) Yes I > was > warned. Argh! > > :) > Brian > battmain at yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Eric J Russell > To: Mark Andy > ; shop-talk > Sent: Thursday, > May 7, 2009 3:11:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions > (snip) > > And, whatever you do, do not browse this website: > www.garagejournal.com > Specifically the forum section. (you've been warned...) > (snip) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mikey at b2systems.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From doug at dougbraun.com Thu May 7 20:55:16 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 19:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions Message-ID: <99203.9361.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, About your garage project: What issue did your fascist city have with changing the old roof to be the same as the new roof? Was it money they wanted? Doug > Still have quite a mess but you can see how the scissor trusses will be > in the new garage compared with the old trusses in the existing garage. > I wish I could have changed out the existing to scissor but the city > said no, so I will make do. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu May 7 22:03:21 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 00:03:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing bits of rod and tubing? In-Reply-To: <58269.85904.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <58269.85904.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40905072103h75844580te0c5fc8ec762bf01@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 10:48 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > Hello, > > I'm trying to clean up my garage, and I have a big bunch of pieces of metal tubing, angle iron, threaded rod, plastic pipe, wooden dowels, etc. B They range from about 2 to 4 feet long. > > Does anyone have a cool way to store this type of stuff, so it does not take up too much space, remains tidy, and the shorter bits do not get totally hidden by the longer ones? You're suggesting that my method of just dumping them in a bucket is sub-optimal? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jblair1948 at cox.net Fri May 8 09:10:37 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:10:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage design help / decisions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20090508110618.01dfc928@cox.net> Mark, I found an email from an architect friend. I was trying to validate my dad's home owners ins. policy and asked him what the current costs for building were. As of Nov. 07, here in Va. Beach, a garage would cost $30-$50 / sq ft. I don't know if that's unfinished/finished. I'd assume that the $30 would be unfinished or maybe just a little less, and the $50 would be finished and or with niceties like the dormers, etc. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Fri May 8 11:30:07 2009 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:30:07 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Outdoor Oil Tanks Message-ID: Getting quotes to replace my oil tank as the legs have deteriorated and the tank is old and getting sludgy. The question I'm asked is whether I'd like to install the tank outside. The recommendation from real estate agents, and parents when I was house shopping years ago, was to stay away from houses with outdoor (or underground obviously) oil tanks. Aesthetically, I don't love the idea, though I do have a good spot where one would go, and the first order of business would be to hide it with some fence/lattice/etc since it faces the street. Until the quotes come in and show the price difference for installation, I won't make a decision. Upsides are cheaper install, and a little more room in the basement. The downsides as I see it are potential damage long term from rain/snow/ice (unless I put a roof over it or something) damage from branches and trees which if oil leaked out would be catastrophic for my property. How my home insurance would feel about it is an unknown at this point. Lastly, theft is definitely a possibility, especially as oil prices climb (though that's still a possibility with in indoor tank with access to the filler) ... Opinions? Thx, -PJ From arvidj at visi.com Fri May 8 12:00:24 2009 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:00:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Outdoor Oil Tanks References: Message-ID: <70E21A2B14D944F2B71EFA5312664FB3@behavioral.com> Not exactly sure where you live but in Minnesota an outdoor tank means you need #1 in the winter - slightly more expensive than the #2 you can use in the summer. My mom's is in the basement to insure that they could always use the cheaper #2. There was another one that was outside the garage for the heater in the garage and we had to make sure it had the correct oil in it otherwise it would not flow when it got really cold. And it eventually rusted out of the bottom from the condensation that collected in the bottom of the tank while the one in the basement is still going strong after 60 years. Arvid ----- Original Message ----- From: "PJ McGarvey" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 12:30 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Outdoor Oil Tanks > Getting quotes to replace my oil tank as the legs have deteriorated and > the > tank is old and getting sludgy. > > The question I'm asked is whether I'd like to install the tank outside. > The > recommendation from real estate agents, and parents when I was house > shopping > years ago, was to stay away from houses with outdoor (or underground > obviously) oil tanks. > > Aesthetically, I don't love the idea, though I do have a good spot where > one > would go, and the first order of business would be to hide it with some > fence/lattice/etc since it faces the street. > > Until the quotes come in and show the price difference for installation, I > won't make a decision. > > Upsides are cheaper install, and a little more room in the basement. > > The downsides as I see it are potential damage long term from > rain/snow/ice > (unless I put a roof over it or something) damage from branches and trees > which if oil leaked out would be catastrophic for my property. How my > home > insurance would feel about it is an unknown at this point. Lastly, theft > is > definitely a possibility, especially as oil prices climb (though that's > still > a possibility with in indoor tank with access to the filler) ... > > Opinions? > > Thx, > -PJ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as arvidj at visi.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From doug at dougbraun.com Sat May 9 16:21:16 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 15:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Storing bits of rod and tubing? Message-ID: <522151.40429.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's what I was doing, but then I needed to use the bucket for something else... Doug --- On Fri, 5/8/09, David Scheidt wrote: > From: David Scheidt > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Storing bits of rod and tubing? > To: "Doug Braun" > Cc: "Shop-Talk List" > Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 12:03 AM > On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 10:48 PM, Doug > Braun > wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I'm trying to clean up my garage, and I have a big > bunch of pieces of metal tubing, angle iron, threaded rod, > plastic pipe, wooden dowels, etc. They range from about 2 > to 4 feet long. > > > > Does anyone have a cool way to store this type of > stuff, so it does not take up too much space, remains tidy, > and the shorter bits do not get totally hidden by the longer > ones? > > You're suggesting that my method of just dumping them in a > bucket is > sub-optimal? > > > > -- > David Scheidt > dmscheidt at gmail.com From cak at dimebank.com Sun May 10 15:41:30 2009 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 14:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring Message-ID: <200905102141.n4ALfUWE003280@moose.dimebank.com> I need to do something that I know won't be quite right, and want to figure out how to do it as safely as possible. I have a sub-panel that feeds (fed) the heatpump - it's fed with three conductors: both phases, and ground. The heatpump has been dead for at least 15 years; two owners back installed a swamp cooler right above it. The previous owner left behind the extension cord that he used to power the swamp cooler, and I've done the same thing for several summers - but I've had enough. I know that I can get 125v from one phase to ground. I also know that this isn't quite kosher, since there may be some voltage drop from real ground to this phony neutral. I think that means I should use a GFCI, and that will be reasonably safe - am I understanding this correctly? Or will the GFCI just keep tripping? :-) Is using BX cable outdoors a reasonable thing? It appears to be what was used to go to the heatpump, but I don't think of BX as being weathertight. This is all under the roof eave, but still... Thanks. From pat at hornesystemstx.com Sun May 10 15:51:27 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:51:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring In-Reply-To: <200905102141.n4ALfUWE003280@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200905102141.n4ALfUWE003280@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <4A074C5F.9090206@hornesystemstx.com> Chris, If you are comfortable working in the electrical panel that feeds the sub-panel you can replace the double breaker there with a single one and connect the remaining wire which used to go to the breaker to the neutral bus. This will give you 120V on one hot, a neutral and a ground. If you are not comfortable doing this, see if you can find a friend or neighbor who is. Short term, just remove one of the wires from the output of the dual breaker and put it onto the neutral bus. I suspect that one of the wires is white, so that is the one that should go to the neutral bus with all the rest of the white wires. If you want to add a GFCI, you can, but many times motor powered stuff (especially older motor stuff) will cause the GFCI to trip, so I wouldn't expect it to work all that well. As for the difference in potential between neutral and ground, there shouldn't be any. The two should be tied together in the main service panel, but I don't recommend using the safety ground for normal current carrying duty, it wasn't designed for that. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Chris Kantarjiev, On 5/10/2009 4:41 PM: > I need to do something that I know won't be quite right, and want to figure > out how to do it as safely as possible. > > I have a sub-panel that feeds (fed) the heatpump - it's fed with three > conductors: both phases, and ground. The heatpump has been dead for at least > 15 years; two owners back installed a swamp cooler right above it. > The previous owner left behind the extension cord that he used to > power the swamp cooler, and I've done the same thing for several > summers - but I've had enough. > > I know that I can get 125v from one phase to ground. I also know that this > isn't quite kosher, since there may be some voltage drop from > real ground to this phony neutral. I think that means I should use > a GFCI, and that will be reasonably safe - am I understanding this > correctly? > > Or will the GFCI just keep tripping? :-) > > Is using BX cable outdoors a reasonable thing? It appears to be what > was used to go to the heatpump, but I don't think of BX as being > weathertight. This is all under the roof eave, but still... > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From cak at dimebank.com Sun May 10 16:02:54 2009 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 15:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring Message-ID: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> Pat (and Donald, who replied directly): Thanks - that's a great idea. I don't know why I didn't think of it. Indeed, the original wiring used Romex, so I have a white lead. I can either change out the double-pole at the breaker or just leave it as is with one pole disconnected... I'm not sure there's a neutral bus in the subpanel, but it doesn't matter; there's only one circuit there. So.. what about using BX under the eaves? From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Sun May 10 18:36:31 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 19:36:31 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring In-Reply-To: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: Does your wiring have two or three insulated conductors? The bare wire should NEVER be used to carry current. That being said, the DPO of our house did that and I have not corrected that circuit yet. If the conductors are black, white and bare, just move the white to the neutral bar where the bare conductor should already be and you will have it wired to code. You should also change to a single breaker which is really not any harder than moving the wire. Get the correct size for you application. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 15:02:54 -0700 > From: cak at dimebank.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring > > Pat (and Donald, who replied directly): > > Thanks - that's a great idea. I don't know why I didn't think of it. > Indeed, the original wiring used Romex, so I have a white lead. I > can either change out the double-pole at the breaker or just leave > it as is with one pole disconnected... > > I'm not sure there's a neutral bus in the subpanel, but it doesn't matter; > there's only one circuit there. > > So.. what about using BX under the eaves? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From pat at hornesystemstx.com Sun May 10 19:39:12 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 20:39:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring In-Reply-To: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <4A0781C0.4040509@hornesystemstx.com> Chris, I'm not sure what the code says about BX cable outside, but where we live (rural Texas) you find it all the time. Just be sure that there is a drip loop in the cable so if any water gets into the cable that it doesn't use the BX as a path to put water into the breaker panel. I see a lot of BX painted, which will seal it more than just leaving it raw. As to whether you have a neutral bus or not, just look to see where the white wire from the main panel ends up. If there are only 3 wires - 2 insulated and one bare in the sub-panel, then go back to the main panel and move one of the insulated wires to the bar where all the white wires are. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Chris Kantarjiev, On 5/10/2009 5:02 PM: > Pat (and Donald, who replied directly): > > Thanks - that's a great idea. I don't know why I didn't think of it. > Indeed, the original wiring used Romex, so I have a white lead. I > can either change out the double-pole at the breaker or just leave > it as is with one pole disconnected... > > I'm not sure there's a neutral bus in the subpanel, but it doesn't matter; > there's only one circuit there. > > So.. what about using BX under the eaves? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From strovato at optonline.net Sun May 10 20:10:04 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 22:10:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring In-Reply-To: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <0KJG001EZJFL63D0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> It is my understanding that you should not use BX outdoors. If you need something flexible outdoors, there is plastic flexible conduit, often called "Greenfield". It is commonly used for connection to things like central air conditioner units, where a flexible connection is desired. At 06:02 PM 5/10/2009, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: >So.. what about using BX under the eaves? From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon May 11 16:31:28 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:31:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... In-Reply-To: <0KJG001EZJFL63D0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> so I read doug shook's post about water heater maintenance and that got me thinking I haven't drained the heater recently, and maybe a new anode couldn't hurt, either. so I hook up the hose, open the valve, and...nothing. take off the hose, open the valve. still nothing. a dribble. I guess it's been so long that sediment appears to have completely clogged up the drain valve. the question is: what do I do now? I just closed the valve, just in case, but it seems to me that this is probably not a Good Thing. any ideas? and while I'm asking, how exactly does one replace the anode? are they all in the same place? there's no decal with an arrow that says, "anode here". thanks. scott From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue May 12 20:16:06 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:16:06 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... In-Reply-To: <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A0A2D66.8070709@xxiii.com> scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > I guess it's been so long that sediment appears to have completely clogged up the drain valve. Dunno what to tell you there. > and while I'm asking, how exactly does one replace the anode? are they all in the same place? there's no decal with an arrow that says, "anode here". Some have their own lug on the top of the tank; others it's inside the outlet fitting. This web site http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/ has lots of good [free] info, and ridiculously overpriced repair kits and parts. -Wayne From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Tue May 12 21:05:07 2009 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 20:05:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... References: <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Dear Scott, I think the best thing to do now would be to go to HD and buy a 3/4" full ball-valve and a hose bib fitting (I can take a photo of what I did). Turn off the cold water feed to the heater, replace the current drain valve with the ball-valve, close the new drain valve, open the cold water feed to pressurize the tank, and then open and close your new drain valve in five second intervals until the water discharge is clear.The ball valve and fittings cost about $11 at the local home depot. I have found that if do this about once a week for several weeks, you will continue to get sludge out that has loosened up from the heating cycles. For the anode valve, it will be on the top of the tank probably behind/near the cold water inlet. They all are hex head, 1 1/16" nuts. I used my air impact wrench to remove it as it was a tight fit. It might be located under some tape and insulation. Most rods are 44" long and when new are 3/4" diameter and are made from magnesium. Magnesium generally is best (most protective), but if you are getting a strong sulfur smell from the faucet, you might want to look at an aluminum rod. They cost $20-$40 and will last 3-5 years. There is a good chance that your anode will just be a piece of wire with all the magnesium consumed. If your tank is in a basement or someplace with a good deal of head room, you can buy a solid rod. If it is in a shed, you will need to get a flexible one so that you can feed it in. The basic take is that if you change the anode every 3-5 years, flush the tank out a couple times a year, the heater should last for 20+ years. Water softeners will consume the rods sooner. This is where I ordered my rod: http://shop.waterconnection.com/category.sc?categoryId=2 The owner answers the phone and is very helpful and willing to answer questions. If I forgot anything, please let me know. best, doug ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... > so I read doug shook's post about water heater maintenance and that got me > thinking I haven't drained the heater recently, and maybe a new anode > couldn't hurt, either. > > so I hook up the hose, open the valve, and...nothing. take off the hose, > open the valve. still nothing. a dribble. > > I guess it's been so long that sediment appears to have completely clogged > up the drain valve. > > the question is: what do I do now? I just closed the valve, just in case, > but it seems to me that this is probably not a Good Thing. > > any ideas? > > and while I'm asking, how exactly does one replace the anode? are they all > in the same place? there's no decal with an arrow that says, "anode here". > > thanks. > > scott > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as dirtbeard at pacbell.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From pj_thomas at comcast.net Tue May 12 21:06:04 2009 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 23:06:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... In-Reply-To: <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A0A391C.30406@comcast.net> scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > so I read doug shook's post about water heater maintenance and that got me thinking I haven't drained the heater recently, and maybe a new anode couldn't hurt, either. > > so I hook up the hose, open the valve, and...nothing. take off the hose, open the valve. still nothing. a dribble. > > I guess it's been so long that sediment appears to have completely clogged up the drain valve. > > the question is: what do I do now? Hook up the hose with a nozzle on the end. The shorter the nose, the better. Shut off the incoming water supply. Open all the hot water faucets in the house. Make sure the nozzle is closed. Open the drain valve. Have everyone in the house jump up and down on the hose is sync. > I just closed the valve, just in case, but it seems to me that this is probably not a Good Thing. > > any ideas? > > and while I'm asking, how exactly does one replace the anode? are they all in the same place? there's no decal with an arrow that says, "anode here". > > thanks. > > scott > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pj_thomas at comcast.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From robolane at sbcglobal.net Wed May 13 07:13:00 2009 From: robolane at sbcglobal.net (ROBERT LANE) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 06:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good Message-ID: <627387.83337.qm@web82003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What about hooking up a hose between a water valve and the hot water heater drain with a hose with female coupler on each end? Turn off the incoming water supply line. Open some hot water faucets. Open the hot water tank drain valve and turn on the water to the heater drian to try to blow the sediment out of the plugged drain. Then try to drain it again. CATCH YOU LATER, ROBO From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed May 13 08:22:06 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:22:06 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... In-Reply-To: <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <0KJG001EZJFL63D0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: > the question is: what do I do now? I just closed the valve, just in case, > but it seems to me that this is probably not a Good Thing. Not tried it on a water heater, but it's a common operation on Triumphs ... open or remove the valve and stick a length of stiff wire into the hole. Poke & prod until it works through the crud. I've even used a drill bit (turned only with my fingers, so can't cut into sound metal) or a dental pick. But honestly, if your water heater is that far gone, it's probably time to replace it anyway. There may well be other openings that are only clogged with sediment & rust. And discovering that your old heater has been leaking for hours or days unnoticed; followed by not having a hot shower until it's replaced is an experience I'd rather not repeat. Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed May 13 08:35:23 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:35:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... References: <0KJG001EZJFL63D0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net><1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <7E16497B75F24AD4A8089205C17A3ECD@KARL> No hot shower for days pales in comparison to a discovering leak in a water heater in a house built on a slab, and with hardwood floors. Not that I'd have any experience with that...... Karl > And discovering that your old heater has been leaking > for hours or days unnoticed; followed by not having a hot shower until > it's > replaced is an experience I'd rather not repeat. > > Randall From jdinnis at gmail.com Wed May 13 08:43:46 2009 From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:43:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... In-Reply-To: <7E16497B75F24AD4A8089205C17A3ECD@KARL> References: <0KJG001EZJFL63D0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <1446901239.8066251242081088584.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <7E16497B75F24AD4A8089205C17A3ECD@KARL> Message-ID: We had a similar issue at our previous home. We ended up replacing the water heater. It was in the basement, so we wanted to get all of the water out before hauling it up the stairs. Even after removing the drain valve we were sill not able to get much out of it. So it took three guys and a two-wheel cart to haul it up the stairs. Once outside we inverted it and got about four or five more gallons of water out. It went to the recycling facility that way. Not sure how much crud was inside, but it was definetly not doing much water heating anymore anyway. -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= From scott.hall at comcast.net Wed May 13 09:03:57 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:03:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... In-Reply-To: <190809067.8856571242226638179.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <699288787.8860971242227037576.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I tried poking around with a wire--nothing. It's not a ball valve, so I'm thinking that it's entirely possible that the wire just couldn't make it though the valve. Doug Shook suggested replacing the valve itself, which sounds like a fine idea as soon as I figure out how to get the old one off. I think I'll also try the 'backflush' option as well. I'd like to salvage this one for as long as possible. It's worked well so far, and ultimately I'd like to replace it with a solar water heater, if we stay in the house. I think the issue may be heavy sediment in the water. The new house has a whole-house sediment filter that clogs up about every two weeks. It never occurred to me, but the old house (the one with the heater I'm asking about now) may very well have the same issues--in addition to the lime scale I was asking about a while back, I wouldn't be surprised if we had sediment as well. The toilets get a lovely brown-orange color fairly quickly that the rental house (on city water) never did. you live on a well most of your life and that sort of thing doesn't seem strange until you type it into an email to a few hundred people... I detest the filter on the new house (as it clogs up the water pressure drops, and it clogs so quickly that you only get full water pressure for about a week, it seems), but perhaps I need to be investigating a filtration option at the old house, in addition to the softener. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:22:06 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] well that can't be good... > the question is: what do I do now? I just closed the valve, just in case, > but it seems to me that this is probably not a Good Thing. Not tried it on a water heater, but it's a common operation on Triumphs ... open or remove the valve and stick a length of stiff wire into the hole. Poke & prod until it works through the crud. I've even used a drill bit (turned only with my fingers, so can't cut into sound metal) or a dental pick. But honestly, if your water heater is that far gone, it's probably time to replace it anyway. There may well be other openings that are only clogged with sediment & rust. And discovering that your old heater has been leaking for hours or days unnoticed; followed by not having a hot shower until it's replaced is an experience I'd rather not repeat. From jblair1948 at cox.net Wed May 13 09:14:43 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:14:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brown stain in toilet (was well that can't be good...) In-Reply-To: <699288787.8860971242227037576.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westch ester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <190809067.8856571242226638179.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <699288787.8860971242227037576.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20090513111225.01d56738@cox.net> At 11:03 AM 5/13/2009, Scott Hall wrote: >.... The toilets get a lovely brown-orange color fairly quickly that the rental >house (on city water) never did. you live on a well most of your life and that >sort of thing doesn't seem strange until you type it into an email to a few >hundred people... Scott, I'm on city water (here in VA Beach) and have got the brown stains in the bottom of my toilets. I've tried bleach, and CLR to get rid of them, to no avail. Anyone have any ideas how to get the stain out? TIA John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From kennedybc at comcast.net Wed May 13 09:37:01 2009 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C Kennedy) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:37:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brown stain in toilet (was well that can't be good...) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20090513111225.01d56738@cox.net> Message-ID: I've lived on well water for quite some time. The brown you see is basically rust from the iron compounds in the water. I'm a little surprised that the city water has that much iron in it. There's a product called Iron Out readily available at your local hardware store. I've forgotten what acid it has, but it readily removes the brown, just be careful with it. There are other products that work as well, I just don't remember the names. For years I solved the problem with water softeners and salt w/rust. All my outside faucets bypassed the water softeners so any time I watered anything, I got rust all over. A few years ago I bit the big bullet and installed iron filters. The first was called "Iron Curtain". It has two tanks, the first injects air into the water to oxidize the iron compounds. The second filters the iron compounds using a timed backflushing scheme as water softeners do. These things are maintenance free (until something breaks, of course) and what I really like is they have the capacity to water my lawn. So the whole house is filtered. They aren't cheap though. The last one I got for our cottage was 2-3K as I recall. I still use the water softener, of course, for most things inside the house to get rid of the calcium carbonate. I don't use a water softener at the cottage. It's small and we don't use that much water. So every know and then I have to clean up a little white deposits from the calcium -- Brian Kennedy > From: "John T. Blair" > Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:14:43 -0400 > To: > Subject: [Shop-talk] Brown stain in toilet (was well that can't be good...) > > At 11:03 AM 5/13/2009, Scott Hall wrote: > >> .... The toilets get a lovely brown-orange color fairly quickly > that the rental >> house (on city water) never did. you live on a well most of your > life and that >> sort of thing doesn't seem strange until you type it into an email to a few >> hundred people... > > Scott, > > I'm on city water (here in VA Beach) and have got the brown stains in > the bottom > of my toilets. I've tried bleach, and CLR to get rid of them, to no avail. > > Anyone have any ideas how to get the stain out? > > TIA > > John > > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net > Va. Beach, Va > Phone: (757) 495-8229 > > 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) > 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III > 65 Rambler Classic > > Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan > Bricklin: www.bricklin.org > > If you can read this - Thank a teacher! > If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as kennedybc at comcast.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From cak at dimebank.com Wed May 13 10:44:33 2009 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Brown stain in toilet (was well that can't be good...) Message-ID: <200905131644.n4DGiXxP002715@moose.dimebank.com> Our well has a fair bit of iron - we get brown stains on lots of things. The best product we've found is Whink, which is very dilute hydrofluoric acid. Works great, doesn't destroy your lungs while you're using it unlike most tile cleaners. From battmain at yahoo.com Wed May 13 12:10:39 2009 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Brown stain in toilet (was well that can't be good...) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20090513111225.01d56738@cox.net> References: <190809067.8856571242226638179.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <699288787.8860971242227037576.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.0.20090513111225.01d56738@cox.net> Message-ID: <768884.43390.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In my area, also on city water, I have to use a scrub brush. The brown stuff comes off pretty easily though. CLR didn't touch it either. It's something in the water. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: John T. Blair To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:14:43 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] Brown stain in toilet (was well that can't be good...) At 11:03 AM 5/13/2009, Scott Hall wrote: >.... The toilets get a lovely brown-orange color fairly quickly that the rental >house (on city water) never did. you live on a well most of your life and that >sort of thing doesn't seem strange until you type it into an email to a few >hundred people... Scott, I'm on city water (here in VA Beach) and have got the brown stains in the bottom of my toilets. I've tried bleach, and CLR to get rid of them, to no avail. Anyone have any ideas how to get the stain out? TIA John (snip) From t.w.jones1 at gmail.com Wed May 13 12:48:57 2009 From: t.w.jones1 at gmail.com (Tom Jones) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:48:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brown stain in toilet (was well that can't be good...) In-Reply-To: <768884.43390.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <190809067.8856571242226638179.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <699288787.8860971242227037576.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.0.20090513111225.01d56738@cox.net> <768884.43390.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We have "community water" which is semi treated well for about 100 homes and we all have the spots. "Greased Lightning" from Home Depot, about $8 for 32 oz. Spray on/in, let sit for 2-3 minutes and scrub with a brush. Lasts about 3 weeks and then it's time to do it again. On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Battmain wrote: > In my area, also on city water, I have to use a scrub brush. The > brown stuff > comes off pretty easily though. CLR didn't touch > it either. It's something in > the water. > > Brian > battmain at yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: > John T. Blair > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Sent: > Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:14:43 AM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Brown stain in toilet > (was well that can't be good...) > > At 11:03 AM 5/13/2009, Scott Hall wrote: > >.... The toilets get a lovely brown-orange color fairly quickly that the > rental > >house (on city water) never did. you live on a well most of your life > and that > >sort of thing doesn't seem strange until you type it into an email > to a few > >hundred people... > > Scott, > > I'm on city water (here in VA Beach) and > have got the brown stains in the bottom > of my toilets. I've tried bleach, and > CLR to get rid of them, to no avail. > > Anyone have any ideas how to get the > stain out? > > TIA > > John > > (snip) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as t.w.jones1 at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From mark at sccaprepared.com Wed May 13 15:15:31 2009 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] garage design, part 2 Message-ID: Howdy, Ok, so per my previous messages, I started with this plan: http://justgarageplans.com/63/plan-detail/2303.php Various $$/sq. foot estimates later, I decide that $40/ft^2 is probably what I should use for the shell construction. A little math gets me $70k, using 40x44. That's too much. So my next thought is to build it in stages... That design really seems to be a 26x33 building married to a 17x39 building, so my thinking is to build the "regular height" garage first, use it for my immediate needs, and expand it later when I get around to actually buying a lift... So now what I'm looking for is an inexpensive way to generate some drawings & a bill of materials for a 32' wide, 30' long stick built garage. I want to do things like have 2x6 walls, locate windows where I want them, have overhead storage, etc. But the resulting building really would be quite basic. Is there any building designer software that would let me dictate basic things like this and would then generate drawings / list of materials? In an ideal world it would even let me do stuff like calculate header sizes for openings, etc. Thanks for any pointers! Mark From pat at hornesystemstx.com Wed May 13 15:36:57 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 16:36:57 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage design, part 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0B3D79.9050501@hornesystemstx.com> Mark, Starting about 2000 I built a 30'x40' (1200 sq.ft.) shop with a 22'x40' (900 sq.ft.) apartment on top of it for about $50k. The shop has 10' ceilings, a 12'x7' office and bathroom with shower. The walls are 2x6's. I covered the walls with white pegboard and the ceiling with corrugated metal for reflectivity. The apartment is 2x4 construction, 2 bedroom, 1 bath. Granted that was 10 years ago, but I think you should be able to do your shop for less. My wife and I built about 90% of it ourselves, with some help framing by friends and grandkids. The stairs up to the apartment took much longer to build than I thought they would, 22 days! I'd attach some pictures, but they won't go through. The apartment is documented at http://www/silentvalleytx.com. If anyone is interested in exterior pictures I can put them up on line also. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Mark Andy, On 5/13/2009 4:15 PM: > Howdy, > > Ok, so per my previous messages, I started with this plan: > > http://justgarageplans.com/63/plan-detail/2303.php > > Various $$/sq. foot estimates later, I decide that $40/ft^2 is > probably what I should use for the shell construction. A little math > gets me $70k, using 40x44. > > That's too much. > > So my next thought is to build it in stages... That design really > seems to be a 26x33 building married to a 17x39 building, so my > thinking is to build the "regular height" garage first, use it for my > immediate needs, and expand it later when I get around to actually > buying a lift... > > So now what I'm looking for is an inexpensive way to generate some > drawings & a bill of materials for a 32' wide, 30' long stick built > garage. I want to do things like have 2x6 walls, locate windows where > I want them, have overhead storage, etc. But the resulting building > really would be quite basic. > > Is there any building designer software that would let me dictate > basic things like this and would then generate drawings / list of > materials? In an ideal world it would even let me do stuff like > calculate header sizes for openings, etc. > > Thanks for any pointers! > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From ejrussell at mebtel.net Wed May 13 16:48:10 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:48:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? Message-ID: <621677D6395F4A7E8443274613F881E4@EricJRussellPC> My 16" Craftsman chain saw is cutting curves. The blade is wandering to the left. After an inch or two, the blade binds and I can't complete a cut. I tried replacing the chain (one that had been re-sharpened at a local hardware store) thinking that perhaps the 'teeth' had been damaged along one side but that has not fixed it. I suppose I could have two defective chains but, before I buy a new chain, is there something else I am missing? In case my description is inadequate, while attempting to cut some landscape timbers for a retaining wall, the cut is straight across top of the timber but looks like a comma on the vertical side of the timber. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From ericm at lne.com Wed May 13 17:01:22 2009 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 16:01:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? In-Reply-To: <621677D6395F4A7E8443274613F881E4@EricJRussellPC> References: <621677D6395F4A7E8443274613F881E4@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <20090513230122.GA4925@slack.lne.com> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 06:48:10PM -0400, Eric J Russell wrote: > My 16" Craftsman chain saw is cutting curves. The blade is wandering to the > left. After an inch or two, the blade binds and I can't complete a cut. I > tried replacing the chain (one that had been re-sharpened at a local hardware > store) thinking that perhaps the 'teeth' had been damaged along one side but > that has not fixed it. I suppose I could have two defective chains but, before > I buy a new chain, is there something else I am missing? > > In case my description is inadequate, while attempting to cut some landscape > timbers for a retaining wall, the cut is straight across top of the timber but > looks like a comma on the vertical side of the timber. > Usually that's because the chain has been sharpened incorrectly. But a new chain shouldn't have that problem. So I would instead look at the bar, on the bottom side where you cut the most. If it has worn more on one side than the other, the chain won't run square to the bar and will cut crooked. A bar that's worn out might do this if the hardened surface is worn away on one side. Eric From jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net Wed May 13 17:24:51 2009 From: jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net (JB) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 19:24:51 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? In-Reply-To: <621677D6395F4A7E8443274613F881E4@EricJRussellPC> References: <621677D6395F4A7E8443274613F881E4@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: That problem is usually due to wear on the bar. That's why many bars are made so they can be turned over. If I have turned it over and also worn out the "other" side I have found you can usually grind or file the riding surfaces flat for one more time each. After that, you pretty much have to buy a new bar. I think I paid $20 -$25 bucks for a new bar with a chain for my 16" Remington, but I would guess they are more than that now. It pays to get a new chain at the same time as the new bar, as the tilting of the chain tends to wear the riding shoulders and the "tails" of the chain to where they don't guide quite right in the new bar. John Briggs Howell, MI -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Eric J Russell Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:48 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? My 16" Craftsman chain saw is cutting curves. The blade is wandering to the left. After an inch or two, the blade binds and I can't complete a cut. I tried replacing the chain (one that had been re-sharpened at a local hardware store) thinking that perhaps the 'teeth' had been damaged along one side but that has not fixed it. I suppose I could have two defective chains but, before I buy a new chain, is there something else I am missing? In case my description is inadequate, while attempting to cut some landscape timbers for a retaining wall, the cut is straight across top of the timber but looks like a comma on the vertical side of the timber. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell You are subscribed as jfbriggs at sbcglobal.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From arvidj at visi.com Wed May 13 17:26:46 2009 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:26:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? References: <621677D6395F4A7E8443274613F881E4@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <725C9D1AED6D4414AE46ED74ADAE7287@behavioral.com> I would be looking at the bar. I assume you could check it with a machinist square, but it may not be worth the trouble. I do know that they wear out, that they make "bar dressers', and therefore can only assume that they may wear out unevenly. The end of this document seemed to have some reasonable troubleshooting thoughts http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/ms_manual/ms_08.pdf. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J Russell" To: "shop-talk" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:48 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? > My 16" Craftsman chain saw is cutting curves. The blade is wandering to > the > left. After an inch or two, the blade binds and I can't complete a cut. I > tried replacing the chain (one that had been re-sharpened at a local > hardware > store) thinking that perhaps the 'teeth' had been damaged along one side > but > that has not fixed it. I suppose I could have two defective chains but, > before > I buy a new chain, is there something else I am missing? > > In case my description is inadequate, while attempting to cut some > landscape > timbers for a retaining wall, the cut is straight across top of the timber > but > looks like a comma on the vertical side of the timber. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From arvidj at visi.com Wed May 13 17:29:12 2009 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:29:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? References: <621677D6395F4A7E8443274613F881E4@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: And as long as I was googling about chainsaw bars - this site http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=LawnGarden/MaintainingChainsaw.html#11 recommends that you flip the bar over - which might just be enough to fix your problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J Russell" To: "shop-talk" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:48 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? > My 16" Craftsman chain saw is cutting curves. The blade is wandering to > the > left. After an inch or two, the blade binds and I can't complete a cut. I > tried replacing the chain (one that had been re-sharpened at a local > hardware > store) thinking that perhaps the 'teeth' had been damaged along one side > but > that has not fixed it. I suppose I could have two defective chains but, > before > I buy a new chain, is there something else I am missing? > > In case my description is inadequate, while attempting to cut some > landscape > timbers for a retaining wall, the cut is straight across top of the timber > but > looks like a comma on the vertical side of the timber. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as arvidj at visi.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed May 13 22:59:12 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:59:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring In-Reply-To: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200905102202.n4AM2seb026316@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: > So.. what about using BX under the eaves? Dunno, but the plastic stuff my pool pump is wired with, & I just used for the new air compressor; is cheaper and easier to work with than BX, plus is rated for outdoor use. Randall From strovato at optonline.net Thu May 14 04:42:37 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 06:42:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] unsafe wiring Message-ID: <0KJM00A6BR39G2T0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> This was my reply to Karl. I don't think it made it to the list for some reason. No, I was thinking of flexible non-metallic conduit. The one I think I used was Carflex by Carlon. http://www.carlon.com/Master%20Catalog/Carflex_Brochure.pdf I don't think it makes a lot of difference, though, as long as you get a product rated for outdoor use. -Steve From strovato at optonline.net Thu May 14 04:48:26 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 06:48:26 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] chain saw cuts curves...? In-Reply-To: References: <621677D6395F4A7E8443274613F881E4@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <0KJM00BIQRDHGLZ0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> When I bought my Stihl chainsaw 25 or 30 years ago, the dealer assembled it so the word "Stihl" was upside down on the bar. They said they did this to impress upon the customer that one should flip the bar every time the chain is off, for sharpening, etc. At 07:24 PM 5/13/2009, JB wrote: >That problem is usually due to wear on the bar. That's why many bars are >made so they can be turned over. From brad.kahler at 141.com Thu May 14 14:01:21 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:01:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage design, part 2 In-Reply-To: <4A0B3D79.9050501@hornesystemstx.com> References: <4A0B3D79.9050501@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: We just finished construction of my 40' x 50' shop with 12' side walls. The building was bought from Dandi Systems in Kentucky and they provided a turn key package. Total cost per foot including a 5" concrete slab with 1/2" rebar 24" on center and peers for the colums worked out to $15 per square foot. All I had to do is make sure they had a nice flat pad to put the building on. They did a great job and I'd highly recommend them to anyone. http://www.dandisystems.com/ Brad Richmond, KY On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Pat Horne wrote: > Mark, > > Starting about 2000 I built a 30'x40' (1200 sq.ft.) shop with a 22'x40' (900 > sq.ft.) apartment on top of it for about $50k. > > The shop has 10' ceilings, a 12'x7' office and bathroom with shower. The > walls are 2x6's. I covered the walls with white pegboard and the ceiling > with corrugated metal for reflectivity. > > The apartment is 2x4 construction, 2 bedroom, 1 bath. > > Granted that was 10 years ago, but I think you should be able to do your > shop for less. My wife and I built about 90% of it ourselves, with some help > framing by friends and grandkids. The stairs up to the apartment took much > longer to build than I thought they would, 22 days! > > I'd attach some pictures, but they won't go through. The apartment is > documented at http://www/silentvalleytx.com. If anyone is interested in > exterior pictures I can put them up on line also. > > Peace, > Pat From brad.kahler at 141.com Thu May 14 14:49:43 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:49:43 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] garage design, part 2 Message-ID: <200905141449762.SM00304@[166.70.182.40]> We just finished construction of my 40' x 50' shop with 12' side walls. The building was bought from Dandi Systems in Kentucky and they provided a turn key package. Total cost per foot including a 5" concrete slab with 1/2" rebar 24" on center and peers for the colums worked out to $15 per square foot. All I had to do is make sure they had a nice flat pad to put the building on. They did a great job and I'd highly recommend them to anyone. http://www.dandisystems.com/ Brad Richmond, KY From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Fri May 15 00:17:46 2009 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:17:46 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Building a garage: half now and half later? Message-ID: <368962F4348740569152A3DC43B31308@OFFICEPC> From: Mark Andy Subject: [Shop-talk] garage design, part 2 To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Dot dot dot <<< So my next thought is to build it in stages... That design really seems to be a 26x33 building married to a 17x39 building, so my thinking is to build the "regular height" garage first, use it for my immediate needs, and expand it later when I get around to actually buying a lift... >>> You might give some thought to roughing in some of the second half of the project: will you be able to dig the foundation and get the concrete in for the second half after the first half is built? Will there be a bobcat sized path for removing/adding dirt or gravel without having to use a wheelbarrow? Putting in the full sized slab/foundation now will likely cost less than doing it in two stages and could save you oodles of grief. And you get a carport-like slab for the interim. Downside: if you need to sink anchors into the slab they will stick up and be a pain. Mark Miller Sebastopol, CA Extremely under-garaged. From bn1 at pacbell.net Sat May 16 13:51:12 2009 From: bn1 at pacbell.net (Mr. Bill) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:51:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs. Message-ID: <4A0F1930.3090503@pacbell.net> Listers, A computer challenged friend of mine would like to put magnetic business signs on the doors of his new pickup. He's afraid of damaging the finish/paint. Do any of you have any experience with those? Or perhaps, any precautions he might take first. Many TIA, Bill Barnett Santa Ana, CA From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Sat May 16 15:37:04 2009 From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs. In-Reply-To: <4A0F1930.3090503@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <22758.23181.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've had numerous signs made for our Antique Tractors and use them all the time. Never had a scratch or smudge created by them. I highly recommend Tractor Works, they do great work and are reasonably priced. Frank V. rustymetal at sbcglobal.net --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Mr. Bill wrote: From: Mr. Bill Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs. To: "Shop talk" Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 12:51 PM Listers, A computer challenged friend of mine would like to put magnetic business signs on the doors of his new pickup. He's afraid of damaging the finish/paint. Do any of you have any experience with those? Or perhaps, any precautions he might take first. Many TIA, Bill Barnett Santa Ana, CA You are subscribed as rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From hillman at planet-torque.com Sat May 16 15:57:09 2009 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 17:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs. In-Reply-To: <4A0F1930.3090503@pacbell.net> References: <4A0F1930.3090503@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20090516175438.N52521@itonami.pair.com> On Sat, 16 May 2009, Mr. Bill wrote: > A computer challenged friend of mine would like to put magnetic business > signs on the doors of his new pickup. He's afraid of damaging the > finish/paint. Do any of you have any experience with those? Or > perhaps, any precautions he might take first. The magnet itself won't do any harm. If you slide it across the paint while taking off, or trying to get it straight, then you might leave some scratches. A good coat of wax first is not a bad idea. If he's super-paranoid, he could get someone to make him static-cling vinyl, instead. -- David Hillman From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun May 17 11:01:57 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 13:01:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs. In-Reply-To: <20090516175438.N52521@itonami.pair.com> References: <4A0F1930.3090503@pacbell.net> <20090516175438.N52521@itonami.pair.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40905171001q60dbf90fta75f39166c418e6@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 5:57 PM, David Hillman wrote: > On Sat, 16 May 2009, Mr. Bill wrote: >> >> A computer challenged friend of mine would like to put magnetic business >> signs on the doors of his new pickup. B He's afraid of damaging the >> finish/paint. B Do any of you have any experience with those? B Or >> perhaps, any precautions he might take first. > > B The magnet itself won't do any harm. B If you slide it across the paint > while taking off, or trying to get it straight, then you might leave some > scratches. B A good coat of wax first is not a bad idea. B If he's > super-paranoid, he could get someone to make him static-cling vinyl, > instead. And don't forget to take them off before you go through the car wash! The guy who serviced ours had the entire inside of his service van covered in magnetic ribbons and signs. One thing that we used to with our magnetic tow lights was put clear packing tape over the magnets. That way, when they got covered in magnetic grit, you could peel off the tape, and put new on. may not need to do that with sign magnets (they're not nearly as strong, and easier to clean. ) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From bottorff25 at verizon.net Sun May 17 11:55:38 2009 From: bottorff25 at verizon.net (bottorff25 at verizon.net) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 12:55:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs. Message-ID: <1994599650.730236.1242582938670.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> From mark at nashvilletn.org Sun May 17 13:00:05 2009 From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 14:00:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs. References: <4A0F1930.3090503@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <202A340C8919448AB6B8666AE4BD9C88@Dell9200> I once put a pair of magnetic stone chip protectors on a new Z3. After a few weeks I took them off to wash under them and found that they had discolored the paint. I don't know why or if it was something unique to the material but it took a couple of hours to buff out the lighter colored patches. Needless to say they ended up in the trash! Mark Nashville Listers, A computer challenged friend of mine would like to put magnetic business signs on the doors of his new pickup. He's afraid of damaging the finish/paint. Do any of you have any experience with those? Or perhaps, any precautions he might take first. Many TIA, Bill Barnett Santa Ana, CA From kvacek at ameritech.net Sun May 17 20:28:58 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:28:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets Message-ID: <92C44F6C2C3B4FF485CFA41B27AD86F7@KARL> My MGTC's rear axle housing is a partially riveted assembly. A few rivets were leaking when I took it apart, and now that it's stripped and mostly clean, I have a good chance to seal all of the rivets. Knowing that there's bound to be some oil still in there, I figured I'd flow silver solder under the rivet heads. Nice theory, but the silver solder (I used some Harris Sil-Foss that I had) spreads out onto the axle surface faster than it goes under the rivets and it took me forever to grind off the excess on the several I did. I suppose I can get it clean enough in there to flow in regular soft solder, which at least will clean off easier, but I expect cleaning and soldering it to be a struggle with the residual oil. Brake cleaner, etc. seems to eventually get most of it out, but it still doesn't seem clean enough for regular solder. What else might flow into there, not be bothered by a little residual oil, and seal the rivets ? Thanks ! Karl From jblair1948 at cox.net Mon May 18 05:52:36 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 07:52:36 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets In-Reply-To: <92C44F6C2C3B4FF485CFA41B27AD86F7@KARL> References: <92C44F6C2C3B4FF485CFA41B27AD86F7@KARL> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20090518074859.01cf9d40@cox.net> At 10:28 PM 5/17/2009, Karl Vacek wrote: >My MGTC's rear axle housing is a partially riveted assembly. A few rivets >were leaking when I took it apart, and now that it's stripped and mostly >clean, I have a good chance to seal all of the rivets. ........ >What else might flow into there, not be bothered by a little residual oil, and >seal the rivets ? Karl, For about $6 you might try a tube of epoxy putty from the auto parts store. Take a little slice, need it to mix it and form a string. Then lay it around the head of the rivet and try to work it on so it transitions from the head to the axle. After I plumbed my shop for air, using black pipe, I had a couple of air leaks I couldn't get rid of. I had some of the putty laying around. So I used it on the leaking joints. Problem solved. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From doug at dougbraun.com Mon May 18 07:08:41 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets Message-ID: <423574.48323.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You might try low-viscosity crazy-glue. The best low-viscosity kind can be gotten from a hobby shop. Doug > > >My MGTC's rear axle housing is a partially riveted > assembly. A few rivets > >were leaking when I took it apart, and now that it's > stripped and mostly > >clean, I have a good chance to seal all of the rivets. > ........ > > >What else might flow into there, not be bothered by a > little residual oil, and > >seal the rivets ? > > Karl, From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue May 19 14:48:00 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:48:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets References: <423574.48323.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <72D7B9F1D4BF41E9A3A3F32CBEC58851@KARL> I worry about cyanoacrylates (crazy glue) as being too brittle - are some grades more flexible ? Someone on the MG T-Series list suggested green Loctite 290 - I think that's the one for already-assembled fasteners. Anyone ever use that as a sealant ?? I don't think of Loctite thread lockers as sealants, but I suppose... Thanks ! Karl > You might try low-viscosity crazy-glue. The best low-viscosity kind > can be > gotten from a hobby shop. > > Doug > > >> >> >My MGTC's rear axle housing is a > partially riveted >> assembly. A few rivets >> >were leaking when I took it > apart, and now that it's >> stripped and mostly >> >clean, I have a good chance > to seal all of the rivets. >> ........ >> >> >What else might flow into there, > not be bothered by a >> little residual oil, and >> >seal the rivets ? >> >> > Karl, > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From jem at milleredp.com Tue May 19 15:46:50 2009 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 14:46:50 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets In-Reply-To: <72D7B9F1D4BF41E9A3A3F32CBEC58851@KARL> References: <423574.48323.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <72D7B9F1D4BF41E9A3A3F32CBEC58851@KARL> Message-ID: <4A1328CA.4070701@milleredp.com> Karl Vacek wrote: > I worry about cyanoacrylates (crazy glue) as being too brittle - are > some grades more flexible ? I'd tend to agree. > Someone on the MG T-Series list suggested green Loctite 290 - I think > that's the one for already-assembled fasteners. Anyone ever use that as > a sealant ?? It sounds like the best alternative, but I'd doubt that anything's going to work unless and until the area around the hole, the shank, and the head are clean. John. From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue May 19 16:18:44 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:18:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets References: <423574.48323.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><72D7B9F1D4BF41E9A3A3F32CBEC58851@KARL> <4A1328CA.4070701@milleredp.com> Message-ID: It's just back from Redi-Strip. Clean and ready to seal - though I'll shoot brake cleaner and then flow some metal prep down there a day before anyway. Thanks ! Karl > Karl Vacek wrote: >> I worry about cyanoacrylates (crazy glue) as being too brittle - are some >> grades more flexible ? > > I'd tend to agree. > >> Someone on the MG T-Series list suggested green Loctite 290 - I think >> that's the one for already-assembled fasteners. Anyone ever use that as >> a sealant ?? > > It sounds like the best alternative, but I'd doubt that anything's going > to work unless and until the area around the hole, the shank, and the head > are clean. > > John. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From mikey at b2systems.com Tue May 19 16:44:07 2009 From: mikey at b2systems.com (mike rambour) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:44:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets In-Reply-To: References: <423574.48323.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <72D7B9F1D4BF41E9A3A3F32CBEC58851@KARL> <4A1328CA.4070701@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <1242773047.6102.73.camel@WebBrowser> What about sweating some solder in there like you would a copper pipe joint, heat it up just enough to ooze solder into the joint ? mike On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 17:18 -0500, Karl Vacek wrote: > It's just back from Redi-Strip. Clean and ready to seal - though I'll shoot > brake cleaner and then flow some metal prep down there a day before anyway. > > Thanks ! > Karl > > > > Karl Vacek wrote: > >> I worry about cyanoacrylates (crazy glue) as being too brittle - are some > >> grades more flexible ? > > > > I'd tend to agree. > > > >> Someone on the MG T-Series list suggested green Loctite 290 - I think > >> that's the one for already-assembled fasteners. Anyone ever use that as > >> a sealant ?? > > > > It sounds like the best alternative, but I'd doubt that anything's going > > to work unless and until the area around the hole, the shank, and the head > > are clean. From cak at dimebank.com Tue May 19 17:05:13 2009 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets Message-ID: <200905192305.n4JN5Dfd026128@moose.dimebank.com> I've used the green stuff to seal the pushrod tubes on a TR4A; it's pretty standard for that. Works pretty well - use brake cleaner to really get the gaps clean. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Tue May 19 19:12:37 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:12:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets In-Reply-To: References: <423574.48323.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><72D7B9F1D4BF41E9A3A3F32CBEC58851@KARL><4A1328CA.4070701@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <6571A893BB3844D09F8A03B76B53F85A@EricJRussellPC> Is there no way to re-peen the rivets? Correctly installed the body of the rivet should expand slightly to fill the hole. The head would not be the main 'leak-proof' mechanism. (Can we use "leak proof" in the same sentence as 'MG"...?) Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue May 19 20:26:20 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:26:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Leaky rivets References: <423574.48323.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><72D7B9F1D4BF41E9A3A3F32CBEC58851@KARL><4A1328CA.4070701@milleredp.com> <6571A893BB3844D09F8A03B76B53F85A@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <456D403F03DC4FC2A2C01718D4BC3AEF@KARL> Wellll, it's possible to re-peen them or replace them, but there's little point in doing so AFAIK. They're tight - but a few are a little weepy. I don't know what they really accomplish other than as a manufacturing step - the seams are welded right next to the rivets - they seem to have been in lieu of more substantial fixturing - or maybe MG thought it'd look more old-fashioned that way ;-) But it doesn't seem worth the investment in a rivet set and bucking bar to make the perfect domed heads when therre's no structural advantage to replacing them - just a few less spots on the floor. Karl > Is there no way to re-peen the rivets? Correctly installed the body of the > rivet should expand slightly to fill the hole. The head would not be the > main 'leak-proof' mechanism. > > (Can we use "leak proof" in the same sentence as 'MG"...?) > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From ronglue at yahoo.com Wed May 20 11:36:23 2009 From: ronglue at yahoo.com (Ron Horwitz) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs. Message-ID: <373699.95351.qm@web36307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The damage comes from leaving them on too long. Water gets underneath, gets trapped, dries and then will form a cloudy film or stain the clearcoat. They are temporary signs - treat them as temporary and they will be. Ignore them and treat them as permanent, and they will be :-) > A computer challenged friend of mine would like to put > magnetic business > signs on the doors of his new pickup. He's afraid of > damaging the > finish/paint. Do any of you have any experience with > those? Or > perhaps, any precautions he might take first. From ronglue at yahoo.com Wed May 20 13:47:46 2009 From: ronglue at yahoo.com (Ron Horwitz) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] living near a power plant Message-ID: <733270.36336.qm@web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I found a house that I like (garage is 28 x 21, it may have bedrooms and a kitchen), but it is within sight of the stack from the local oil fired steam plant. From MS Streets, I would estimate one mile straight line. Now, I'm a fan of electricity and conceptually this doesn't bother me, but I feel the need to be informed. When I look at the environmental release form, it puts out 2000lb lead, 30k lb vandium, 50k lb nickel, 66k lb hydrochloric acid and 450k lb sulfuric acid per year. I still don't feel informed. Does anyone have practical experience or know of a reference related to living near a power plant? Thanks, Ron From gwishon at nd.edu Wed May 20 14:25:36 2009 From: gwishon at nd.edu (Gordon Wishon) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:25:36 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] living near a power plant In-Reply-To: <733270.36336.qm@web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <733270.36336.qm@web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <08F602C5D1DACB4FBFDBFB6814181DB7E674E2E3D8@ICE-MBX-1.ice.nd.edu> Yeah, but he's a superhero now. Gordon -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Horwitz Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:48 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] living near a power plant I found a house that I like (garage is 28 x 21, it may have bedrooms and a kitchen), but it is within sight of the stack from the local oil fired steam plant. From MS Streets, I would estimate one mile straight line. Now, I'm a fan of electricity and conceptually this doesn't bother me, but I feel the need to be informed. When I look at the environmental release form, it puts out 2000lb lead, 30k lb vandium, 50k lb nickel, 66k lb hydrochloric acid and 450k lb sulfuric acid per year. I still don't feel informed. Does anyone have practical experience or know of a reference related to living near a power plant? Thanks, Ron You are subscribed as gwishon at nd.edu Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From bspidell at comcast.net Wed May 20 15:54:42 2009 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:54:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] living near a power plant In-Reply-To: <733270.36336.qm@web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1467054903.10114741242856482215.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Depends if you're upwind or downwind. My main concern would be the heavy metals (lead, vanadium, probably some arsenic, etc.). As far as those go, any exposure is too much. Plus, downwind there will probably be a smell, especially with low winds and/or temperature inversions. The fact you're concerned before you even buy means you probably won't be at ease if you live there. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Horwitz" To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:47:46 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [Shop-talk] living near a power plant I found a house that I like (garage is 28 x 21, it may have bedrooms and a kitchen), but it is within sight of the stack from the local oil fired steam plant. From MS Streets, I would estimate one mile straight line. Now, I'm a fan of electricity and conceptually this doesn't bother me, but I feel the need to be informed. When I look at the environmental release form, it puts out 2000lb lead, 30k lb vandium, 50k lb nickel, 66k lb hydrochloric acid and 450k lb sulfuric acid per year. I still don't feel informed. Does anyone have practical experience or know of a reference related to living near a power plant? Thanks, Ron From ericm at lne.com Wed May 20 20:02:16 2009 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:02:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] living near a power plant In-Reply-To: <733270.36336.qm@web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <733270.36336.qm@web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090521020216.GA15331@slack.lne.com> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:47:46PM -0700, Ron Horwitz wrote: > I found a house that I like (garage is 28 x 21, it may have bedrooms and a kitchen), but it is within sight of the stack from the local oil fired steam plant. From MS Streets, I would estimate one mile straight line. Now, I'm a fan of electricity and conceptually this doesn't bother me, but I feel the need to be informed. When I look at the environmental release form, it puts out 2000lb lead, 30k lb vandium, 50k lb nickel, 66k lb hydrochloric acid and 450k lb sulfuric acid per year. I still don't feel informed. Does anyone have practical experience or know of a reference related to living near a power plant? #1: which way does the prevailing wind blow? You should be able to look up climate data for the area which shows the distribution of wind directions and speeds. It might be in the EIR. Eric From opposumking at verizon.net Thu May 21 06:42:20 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:42:20 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] living near a power plant References: <733270.36336.qm@web36303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001201c9da11$95848900$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> I'm the air toxics section head for my state. That means I get to do a lot of work with things like power plant emissions. Very generically, the stacks are tall to get the pollution up high into the air, so it disperses. It will travel outward from the stack in a cone shape, and start impacting the ground some distance away. The places getting hit with the highest concentrations of pollution from those stacks are usually a few miles away. It then gets lower further out as it continues to dilute. The environmental problems from power plants affect the regions, not individual neighborhoods. To put the danger from the power plant emission in perspective, you get a heck of a lot more exposure to those same chemicals from roads nearby with lots of vehicles on them. As well the neighborhood oil furnaces, lawnmowers, etc. As for the metals, a whole lot more is coming from your neighborhood body shop, the welder, etc. If you're downwind of a commercial or industrial park, well heck, there's quite a number of sources in there with low stacks that just roll it all downwind at ground level. Would I consider living within sight of a power plant? Certainly. Far quicker than I'd be willing to live next to an industrial park (and I do live less than a mile from some) or a heavily traveled road. But, I'd be aware of the perception of danger from the power plant view, and the effect this will have on resale and market price of this home. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Horwitz" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:47 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] living near a power plant >I found a house that I like (garage is 28 x 21, it may have bedrooms and a >kitchen), but it is within sight of the stack from the local oil fired >steam plant. From MS Streets, I would estimate one mile straight line. >Now, I'm a fan of electricity and conceptually this doesn't bother me, but >I feel the need to be informed. When I look at the environmental release >form, it puts out 2000lb lead, 30k lb vandium, 50k lb nickel, 66k lb >hydrochloric acid and 450k lb sulfuric acid per year. I still don't feel >informed. Does anyone have practical experience or know of a reference >related to living near a power plant? From nases at verizon.net Thu May 21 10:19:03 2009 From: nases at verizon.net (Phil Nase) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:19:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] ETL testing Message-ID: <88C08305-AF1A-4E7E-AC40-6DF382079A41@verizon.net> I just bought a widow fan that was tested by ETL - Intertek. I never saw this before. I've only seen UL listed on electric appliances. Is this certification acceptable for safe use. I don't want it burning down the house. El Cheapo fan, $40 from Lowes. Made in China. I really want to invest in a whole house fan as my heat pump A/C doesn't cut it on the second floor of my Cape Cod. Who do I call. HVAC or Electricians? Any products to watch out for or recommendations? Phil Nase Quakertown, PA http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ From bn1 at pacbell.net Thu May 21 10:37:31 2009 From: bn1 at pacbell.net (Mr. Bill) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:37:31 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs & stucco attachment question. In-Reply-To: <373699.95351.qm@web36307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <373699.95351.qm@web36307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A15834B.401@pacbell.net> Many thx for all the advice. We especially liked Ron's tongue in cheek below. He will proceed with his "temporary" signs. :-) And now a question for me: I wish to hang about a 25# wind chime from a typical triangular type outdoor bracket on a stucco wall. Unfortunately it has to go in a spot where I can't hit a stud. Is there a "Moly Anchor" type spreading bolt that will work going through stucco? It's the weight and the leverage pulling down on the bracket that concerns me most. Thanks again, Bill Ron Horwitz wrote: > They are temporary signs - treat them as temporary and they will be. Ignore > them and treat them as permanent, and they will be :-) From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Thu May 21 10:40:54 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:40:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] ETL testing In-Reply-To: <88C08305-AF1A-4E7E-AC40-6DF382079A41@verizon.net> References: <88C08305-AF1A-4E7E-AC40-6DF382079A41@verizon.net> Message-ID: http://www.sentrysafestore.com/ETL.htm I guess UL is a non-profit lab while ETL is a for-profit lab. I was relieved to find that it wasn't extraterrestrial labs. I guess they would specialize in testing space heaters. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > From: nases at verizon.net > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:19:03 -0400 > Subject: [Shop-talk] ETL testing > > I just bought a widow fan that was tested by ETL - Intertek. > > I never saw this before. I've only seen UL listed on electric > appliances. Is this certification acceptable for safe use. I don't > want it burning down the house. El Cheapo fan, $40 from Lowes. Made > in China. > > I really want to invest in a whole house fan as my heat pump A/C > doesn't cut it on the second floor of my Cape Cod. Who do I call. > HVAC or Electricians? > > Any products to watch out for or recommendations? > > > Phil Nase > Quakertown, PA > http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From pethier at comcast.net Thu May 21 11:11:00 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:11:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs & stucco attachment question. In-Reply-To: <4A15834B.401@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <337499942.12280101242925860176.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> ----- "Mr. Bill" wrote: > I wish to hang about a 25# wind chime from > a > typical triangular type outdoor bracket on a stucco wall. > Unfortunately > it has to go in a spot where I can't hit a stud. Is there a "Moly > Anchor" type spreading bolt that will work going through stucco? I would think any of the wing-type toggle bolts would do the job. Dont forget to fill the hole with some sort of masonry-sealant goop. Or you could tell your SO that it would look and work so much better if it was hanging from its own cedar signpost in the yard... Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu May 21 17:58:28 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 16:58:28 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Magnetic signs & stucco attachment question. In-Reply-To: <4A15834B.401@pacbell.net> References: <373699.95351.qm@web36307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A15834B.401@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <77482DDB33DA4B159D0241B3ADFA2733@jdnet.deere.com> > Is there a "Moly > Anchor" type spreading bolt that will work going through stucco? Yes. Just measure the approximate thickness of the stucco, and buy a moly for that thickness. Home Despot carries them in various lengths and diameters. I used one to repair my mailbox mount, after the expanding anchor pulled out. You may need to use pliers or something to keep it from turning as it expands, the pointed ears don't work so well on stucco. -- Randall From pethier at comcast.net Fri May 22 09:44:17 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:44:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell-phone coverage in USA and Canada for charity tour? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1622401393.12648191243007057149.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> This is a bit OT for shop-talk, but I can't think of a better group of folks to give input on this subject. Please respond directly to standardtriumph at btinternet.com (BTW, I have Sprint and my wife has a T-Moble and we will be keeping to the western USA on this trip.) Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "John Macartney" To: triumphs at autox.team.net, spitfires at autox.team.net, "6-Pack" <6pack at autox.team.net> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:24:08 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [TR] Tangibly Triumph query Hi, Everyone The question of 'communications' raises its ugly head again for the Triumph Trans-AmeriCan Stag. On arrival in Florida in late June, I plan on buying a 'Pay As You Go' cellphone - something cheap and cheerful. Not so worried about the make but I am interested in buying one from an ISP with the best possible coverage of the US and Canada. From my studies on the 'net of T-Mobile, Verizon and I think O2, Verizon looks the best. I'd appreciate your thoughts on an ISP offering better coverage than Verizon. Additionally, I'd be interested to know if any ISP retailers offer external antennas for cellphones. Some parts of Europe (mainly former communist bloc) still have many weak signal areas where the phone antenna itself won't pull in a call (or transmit) unless its hooked up to an external antenna. Does the same apply across the pond? I'm thinking of the long stretches of road in rural areas and in the more mountainous areas - especially the Rockies. Thanks in advance - an enquiring mind needs to know. Jonmac Originator of The Triumph Trans-America Charity Drive 2009 www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk An event for full TRIUMPH Enthusiast participation This list supported in part by the Vintage Triumph Register http://www.vtr.org Triumphs at autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/triumphs You are subscribed as pethier at comcast.net http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri May 22 10:46:43 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 09:46:43 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell-phone coverage in USA and Canada for charity tour? In-Reply-To: <1622401393.12648191243007057149.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1622401393.12648191243007057149.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <39110DE429C44DD2A5DCED64E460176D@jdnet.deere.com> Curious, Jonmac's original post didn't show up for me. I wonder if MJB's ISP is still having problems? Anyway, I agree that Verizon probably has the best coverage overall. Certainly there are some places that they don't cover while others do (and I think their advertisements are a bit optimistic), but they did seem to be better overall than T-mobile (which I use now). However, there remain significant portions of the US west where there is simply no cell phone coverage, no matter which company or what antenna you use. Coverage along the Interstate highways appears to be fairly good, but the same is not true for the old US highways and state highways. We were recently running around in New Mexico and Arizona (White Sands, Petrified Forest, Canyon de Chelly, etc), where I'd say we lacked coverage more often than we had it, sometimes even inside small towns. And Colorado mountains are even worse as I recall. I've experimented a little with a small external omnidirectional antenna ... I'd say it's helpful in areas where the coverage is marginal (eg helps hold the connection when only one bar). But I'm not sure it extends coverage area enough to be worth the effort. And those 'magic' things you stick inside or on the back of the phone are worthless, IMO. If you are really desperate for more range, a highly directional antenna (eg Yagi array) with its own LNA and power amplifier is the only thing that will really help. But it needs to be pointed accurately at the tower you are communicating with, which is impractical to say the least, from a moving car. However, a rooftop external antenna might provide enough benefit to be of some use while driving. Relocating the antenna outside the car is the main benefit, but they can also be somewhat directional to the sides. http://www.sb-systems.com/motorola-v60-cell-phone-antenna.html If the intent is to communicate with your convoy, you might consider a direct radio link, like the FRS walkie-talkies or the venerable Citizens Band radios. -- Randall From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri May 22 12:40:06 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:40:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer Message-ID: I'm in the market for a new string trimmer. The one I have is over twenty-five years old and has become a pain to use. I think I have the choice of 2 cycle, 4 cycle or LP. Our yard is too large for corded electric, should a battery powered one be considered? What it the opinion of the list? Anything else I should look for? Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Fri May 22 13:49:28 2009 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim (IS)) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 14:49:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C79702FACE57@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Rich White wrote: > > I'm in the market for a new string trimmer. > What it the opinion of the list? I bought a new Craftsman a year or so ago (when it was on sale). Yes, there are better ones out there, but I can always get parts for it - I managed to get a bracket for a 15 year old snow blower - try that with another brand...) Two things I looked for: First was a straight shaft. The straight shaft trimmer balances much, much better than my old curved shaft trimmer. The old curved shaft one required me to hold it "up" to use - the curved shaft on hangs on a strap, and I just have to guide it with my arms. After trimming for an extended period, my arms are no longer tired. Second was to get one that used regular line head, not one of the "quick change" trimmer heads. Yes, it takes a few minutes to wind new line onto the spool when it runs out, but the roll of trimmer line was only a few bucks and will last forever. My roll for my last trimmer lasted for over 15 years - I still have some left, but my new trimmer used a thicker line and I needed to buy a new roll. Also buy a spare spool, so you can change it when it runs out and re-fill it later. As for 2 or 4 stroke, - four 4 would have been nice, but I have other two stroke yard tools, so having a gallon can of gas pre-mixed with the "universal" 2 stroke oil (for all ratios) isn't a problem. That was what I looked for and it's worked out well. Tim Mullen Chantilly, VA From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri May 22 15:30:10 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:30:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The reason it is 25 years old is because it has always been such a pain to use, I did not trim. We are having a open house and I need to trim. I have not tried to start the old one for years. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:43:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] string trimmer From: eltonclark at gmail.com To: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rich White wrote: I'm in the market for a new string trimmer. The one I have is over twenty-five years old and has become a pain to use. My first impression is based on your getting 25 years out of your present unit . . Go buy another one just like it! Failing that, my next choice is a new one from a full servicing dealer that is conveniently located. From ronald.olds at mchsi.com Sat May 23 03:23:18 2009 From: ronald.olds at mchsi.com (Ronald Olds) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 05:23:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell-phone coverage in USA and Canada for charity tour? In-Reply-To: <1622401393.12648191243007057149.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: I travel continuously in the US and Canada so it is very important to have service everywhere. Most of my time is not in the big cities. I used to be a strong supporter of AT&T until they were purchased by Cingular. I was a Cingular customer and left them because of my dissatisfaction with them and went to AT&T. Once they purchased AT&T you could see the old Cingular coming through. I studied hard to decide which company to move to. I chose Verizon and could not be happier. Their coverage is superb and customer service is even better. The next important thing to the provider is the phone. All phones are not the same. I have been with different people in the same area on the same provider and the signal level would vary from some having full to others having none. Ron Olds From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sat May 23 06:41:33 2009 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 07:41:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers Message-ID: Shop-talk content - using sprayer as a tool ! now Our company just moved into an industrial site and we have 12 acres with about 500-600 feet of 8' chain link fence on the perimeter and about 900' of building that needs to be 'edged' . Property has been vacant for some time and the bushhog did 3 days of work to get it manageable... but the fences are still a mess. I"m looking for something that will leave bare ground one foot on either side of the fence row and around the buildings. I want to kill grass, kudzu, briars, small trees... EVERYTHING !! ... then our mowing will be a lot easier and faster. This is an industrial site and grass and lawn care is considered a chore. Is there one product that will give me scorched earth ??? needs to be applicable with a hand sprayer and available over the counter... boy do I miss creosote and diesel fuel ! thanks John "One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering) From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Sat May 23 06:54:33 2009 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 08:54:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090523125433.GA14814@sackheads.org> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 01:40:06PM -0500, Rich White wrote: > I think I have the choice of 2 cycle, 4 cycle or LP. > > Our yard is too large for corded electric, should a battery powered one be > considered? > I bought an abused Stihl FS85 on ebay 4-5 years ago for about $100. Stihl engines and clutches are bulletproof so a $5 carb rebuild kit and it runs fine (started on first pull after the rebuild). I use it for clearing out fence rows on my parents' farm where it's maybe a little underpowered for the job but it's more than enough for around the house. My neighbor has a battery-powered trimmer that he seems to like but he has a small yard. Watching him use it, I've noticed that the head tends to bog down but it does get the job done and, really, that's all that matters in the end. My other neighbor has a corded electric one that has a little wire loop that extends from the nose of the trimmer. When you're edging sidewalks, the trimmer rests on that wire loop so you don't have to bear the weight. Neat little feature. BTW, If you decide to go with a two-cycle trimmer, make sure you mix the right kind of two-cycle oil. The stuff used in two-cycle boat motors isn't designed for the temperatures that trimmers and chainsaws operate at. From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat May 23 07:26:38 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:26:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090523092210.01d03150@cox.net> At 08:41 AM 5/23/2009, john niolon wrote: >Shop-talk content - using sprayer as a tool ! now > >Our company just moved into an industrial site and we have 12 acres with >about 500-600 feet of 8' chain link fence on the perimeter and about 900' of >building that needs to be 'edged' ..... >I want to kill grass, kudzu, briars, small trees... EVERYTHING !! ... then >our mowing will be a lot easier and faster. This is an industrial site and >grass and lawn care is considered a chore. John, Now I'm talking from a home owner's point of view, not commercial, but I've had good luck with "Round-up". Several years ago, I used it to kill all the grass, well weeds actually, in my front yard, then started over to try and get some grass. I also use it around the foundation of my house and my chain link fence to keep the weeds and grass down and make mowing easier. (The weed wacker doesn't like the chain link fence.) We had some Ivy growning under the fence and up a neighbors house. The didn't really want it on their house. So I hit it and the stuff under the fence. It took several applications but it did a job at killing the Ivy. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From lspector at gmail.com Sat May 23 07:58:56 2009 From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:58:56 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <167503c10905230658n7db39437p6e7e838f23a81292@mail.gmail.com> I've used Ortho "Triox" (aka GroundClear) with some success. I watered my slate patio with it to keep weeds from growing between the pavers. -Larry On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 8:41 AM, john niolon wrote: > Shop-talk content - using sprayer as a tool ! now > > Our company just moved into an industrial site and we have 12 acres with > about 500-600 feet of 8' chain link fence on the perimeter and about 900' of > building that needs to be 'edged' . Property has been vacant for some time > and the bushhog did 3 days of work to get it manageable... but the fences > are still a mess. I"m looking for something that will leave bare ground one > foot on either side of the fence row and around the buildings. > > I want to kill grass, kudzu, briars, small trees... EVERYTHING !! ... then > our mowing will be a lot easier and faster. This is an industrial site and > grass and lawn care is considered a chore. > > Is there one product that will give me scorched earth ??? needs to be > applicable with a hand sprayer and available over the counter... boy do I > miss creosote and diesel fuel ! > > thanks > John From pethier at comcast.net Sat May 23 07:59:06 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 13:59:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1113675160.12919841243087146731.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Why not Roundup? Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier ----- "john niolon" wrote: > From: "john niolon" > To: "shop-talk" > Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 7:41:33 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers > > Shop-talk content - using sprayer as a tool ! now > > Our company just moved into an industrial site and we have 12 acres > with > about 500-600 feet of 8' chain link fence on the perimeter and about > 900' of > building that needs to be 'edged' . Property has been vacant for some > time > and the bushhog did 3 days of work to get it manageable... but the > fences > are still a mess. I"m looking for something that will leave bare > ground one > foot on either side of the fence row and around the buildings. > > I want to kill grass, kudzu, briars, small trees... EVERYTHING !! ... > then > our mowing will be a lot easier and faster. This is an industrial site > and > grass and lawn care is considered a chore. > > Is there one product that will give me scorched earth ??? needs to be > > applicable with a hand sprayer and available over the counter... boy > do I > miss creosote and diesel fuel ! > > thanks > John From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat May 23 08:04:24 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:04:24 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A180268.5010202@xxiii.com> john niolon wrote: > I want to kill grass, kudzu, briars, small trees... EVERYTHING !! ... then > our mowing will be a lot easier and faster. This is an industrial site and > grass and lawn care is considered a chore. RoundUp (glyophosphate?) will kill everything. I buy it in bulk (2+ gallons) and mix into a 3 gallon backpack sprayer. Various 2,4-D products, like Crossbow, are more powerful on woody plants like your kudzu, briars and trees. But don't kill grass (or ferns & moss in my yard, nice!) Either one works better with a surfactant additive. Really just a soap / detergent chemical that helps cut the oil on the leaves so they can soak up the poison more readily. It's the "Pro" you pay more for in Round Up Pro. Dish soap works about as well, or ag' stores carry a concentrated additive. That's the best you can buy in most places without a special license. They work well at the suggested strength. Don't go overboard thinking "more is better" and mix up 3X concentrations. That's the prevailing logic that got the really strong stuff banned from general use. -Wayne From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sat May 23 09:36:39 2009 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:36:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed killer Message-ID: <8CFB926CF3184575B37AA79EFBA085F5@niolon> we've tried Roundup and Ortho Brush Killer and it browns it down but after 3 weeks it's starting to green back up... the current Roundup isn't what the old stuff was... I've found some stuff called "Barron" which is a soil sterilizer.. this should kill and sterilize for up to a year... little pricy but so are wages for someone spraying/weed every few months... I want scorched earth under the fences and building perimeters . The rock salt sounds like a good thing to try also... I still miss creosote and diesel fuel !!! thanks all John "One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering) From strovato at optonline.net Sat May 23 09:41:54 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:41:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090523092210.01d03150@cox.net> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090523092210.01d03150@cox.net> Message-ID: <0KK300HSDSXLN2L0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> There used to be products like Roundup that were great for replanting a lawn, and others that had a residual effect so nothing would grow for months. I have no idea if products with a residual effect are still on the market. If they still exist, that would be a better choice for places that you never want anything to grow. Otherwise you have to reapply more often. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sat May 23 10:15:00 2009 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:15:00 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers References: Message-ID: Hi John, Or if you want to have a little more fun, I have one of these "flame throwers," and it is terrific and "instant." http://www.gemplers.com/product/WB102/Weed-Burner-Torch-500000-BTU They make bigger ones as well: http://www.gemplers.com/product/G50004/1000000-BTU-Jet-Torch best, doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 5:41 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers > Shop-talk content - using sprayer as a tool ! now > > Our company just moved into an industrial site and we have 12 acres with > about 500-600 feet of 8' chain link fence on the perimeter and about 900' > of > building that needs to be 'edged' . Property has been vacant for some time > and the bushhog did 3 days of work to get it manageable... but the fences > are still a mess. I"m looking for something that will leave bare ground > one > foot on either side of the fence row and around the buildings. > > I want to kill grass, kudzu, briars, small trees... EVERYTHING !! ... then > our mowing will be a lot easier and faster. This is an industrial site and > grass and lawn care is considered a chore. > > Is there one product that will give me scorched earth ??? needs to be > applicable with a hand sprayer and available over the counter... boy do I > miss creosote and diesel fuel ! > > thanks > John > > > > > > "One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much > government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as dirtbeard at pacbell.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From lee at automate-it.com Sat May 23 10:20:44 2009 From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:20:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62805.98.200.63.37.1243095644.squirrel@www.automate-it.com> I'm a big fan of glyphosate (RoundUp) - but since Monsanto's patent ran out I don't buy the brand name anymore. I use it for the same reason - clears a nice path several inches at the base of the fence/foundation/edging. I don't find that I have to reapply very often - maybe three times over the summer. For economy, buy the highest concentrate you can get and dilute per instructions. Yes, the ones with surfactant are better. See http://tinyurl.com/oy6zbs and scroll down to "Razor Pro (41% Glyphosate)" - get 2-1/2 gal for $119.95, this will make 100 gallons of spray. - Lee From rs1121 at earthlink.net Sat May 23 10:21:06 2009 From: rs1121 at earthlink.net (Ron Schmittou) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:21:06 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> Hey they have LP powered trimmers? -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rich White Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 1:40 PM To: shop-talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer I'm in the market for a new string trimmer. The one I have is over twenty-five years old and has become a pain to use. I think I have the choice of 2 cycle, 4 cycle or LP. Our yard is too large for corded electric, should a battery powered one be considered? What it the opinion of the list? Anything else I should look for? Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! You are subscribed as rs1121 at earthlink.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat May 23 10:38:35 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 12:38:35 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed killer In-Reply-To: <8CFB926CF3184575B37AA79EFBA085F5@niolon> References: <8CFB926CF3184575B37AA79EFBA085F5@niolon> Message-ID: <4A18268B.2090309@xxiii.com> john niolon wrote: > we've tried Roundup and Ortho Brush Killer and it browns it down but after 3 > weeks it's starting to green back up... the current Roundup isn't what the Try some 2,4-D stuff. The surfactant seems to help it along quite a bit. Timing with the growth cycles is important too. Later in the summer, or anytime there's been a shortage of rain the plants become somewhat dormant, and herbicides aren't as effective. If you hit them right after a good rain when there's a growth spurt in process is it much more effective (and permanent.) I over around Asheville NC, so I have to deal with a the same crap, just slightly toned down from Raleigh's level. BTW, my source is an uncle who's worked every job there is in the Nursery and Agri-Chem biz for 30+ years. He's no longer licensed to buy the strong stuff, but with his advice I've knocked out kudzu, poison ivy and briars pretty permanently. -Wayne From cavanadd at verizon.net Sat May 23 10:57:37 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:57:37 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer In-Reply-To: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> References: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> Message-ID: <4A182B01.2020003@verizon.net> Apparently. > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001H1JNEA Ron Schmittou wrote: > Hey they have LP powered trimmers? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rich White > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 1:40 PM > To: shop-talk List > Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer > > I'm in the market for a new string trimmer. > > The one I have is over twenty-five years old and has become a pain to use. > > > > I think I have the choice of 2 cycle, 4 cycle or LP. > > Our yard is too large for corded electric, should a battery powered one be > considered? > > What it the opinion of the list? > > > > Anything else I should look for? > > Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA > > '63 TR3B TCF587L > > That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > > See it moves! > You are subscribed as rs1121 at earthlink.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat May 23 11:19:03 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 13:19:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers In-Reply-To: <4A180268.5010202@xxiii.com> References: <4A180268.5010202@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40905231019r38cfd0daya5f7f0f08070c2a0@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Wayne wrote: > Either one works better with a surfactant additive. B Really just a soap / > detergent chemical that helps cut the oil on the leaves so they can soak up > the poison more readily. B It's the "Pro" you pay more for in Round Up Pro. > B Dish soap works about as well, or ag' stores carry a concentrated additive. > A dishwasher rinse agent ("jet-dry" is one brand) should work well for this, with less suds. (Shop-talk content: Redline's Water Wetter or the like are basically the same thing.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From eltonclark at gmail.com Sat May 23 11:56:10 2009 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 12:56:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed - grass killers In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40905231019r38cfd0daya5f7f0f08070c2a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A180268.5010202@xxiii.com> <2400a5d40905231019r38cfd0daya5f7f0f08070c2a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: *I once made the brilliant mistake of mixing "RoundUp" with 2-4D so that one spraying would kill EVERY type of weed on my shop lot don'tchaknow. . WRONG! They neutralized each other or something and only did a half-az job of killing anything.* *Tony* From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat May 23 13:35:08 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 15:35:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] decking dimensions? Message-ID: <2400a5d40905231235j2ce29609je42bd0a8a557a491@mail.gmail.com> I have this nagging feeling that decking comes in two fairly common thicknesses. 5/4, which, of course, is only an inch thick, and a slightly thicker size. What's the other size? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sat May 23 14:14:38 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 16:14:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] decking dimensions? In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40905231235j2ce29609je42bd0a8a557a491@mail.gmail.com> References: <2400a5d40905231235j2ce29609je42bd0a8a557a491@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Some people use 2X lumber (which is ~ 1 1/2" thick) Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Scheidt" >I have this nagging feeling that decking comes in two fairly common > thicknesses. 5/4, which, of course, is only an inch thick, and a > slightly thicker size. What's the other size? From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Sat May 23 20:46:00 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 21:46:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer In-Reply-To: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> References: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> Message-ID: I found one if a farm supply store and I think I've see them on TV. They use the green canisters that campers use. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > From: rs1121 at earthlink.net > To: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] string trimmer > Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:21:06 -0500 > > Hey they have LP powered trimmers? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rich White > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 1:40 PM > To: shop-talk List > Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer > > I'm in the market for a new string trimmer. > > The one I have is over twenty-five years old and has become a pain to use. > > > > I think I have the choice of 2 cycle, 4 cycle or LP. > > Our yard is too large for corded electric, should a battery powered one be > considered? > > What it the opinion of the list? > > > > Anything else I should look for? > > Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA > > '63 TR3B TCF587L > > That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > > See it moves! > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rs1121 at earthlink.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From cak at dimebank.com Sun May 24 13:29:29 2009 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 12:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] preservative for cut post ends Message-ID: <200905241929.n4OJTTrr003701@moose.dimebank.com> I'm putting up a redwood deck railing. The design is such that most of the posts are completely covered, but I've got a miter joint at corners, which will allow water to enter the cut end. I know that there are lots of products on the market for treating such ... but I also know that many don't work. What say ye? From mikey at b2systems.com Mon May 25 13:43:46 2009 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:43:46 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer In-Reply-To: References: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> Message-ID: <4A1AF4F2.9010306@b2systems.com> The big push for LP trimmers and other yard tools is that they can sit unused for long periods of time and not gunk up the carburetor. Should be great for those of you that only fire up the things once or twice a season. I assume they are also cleaner and better for the environment. mike Rich White wrote: > I found one if a farm supply store and I think I've see them on TV. > > > > They use the green canisters that campers use. > > Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA > > '63 TR3B TCF587L > > That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > > See it moves! > > > > > >> From: rs1121 at earthlink.net >> To: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] string trimmer >> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:21:06 -0500 >> >> Hey they have LP powered trimmers? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net >> [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rich White >> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 1:40 PM >> To: shop-talk List >> Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer >> >> I'm in the market for a new string trimmer. >> >> The one I have is over twenty-five years old and has become a pain to use. >> >> >> >> I think I have the choice of 2 cycle, 4 cycle or LP. >> >> Our yard is too large for corded electric, should a battery powered one be >> considered? >> >> What it the opinion of the list? >> >> >> >> Anything else I should look for? >> >> Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA >> >> '63 TR3B TCF587L >> >> That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! >> >> See it moves! >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as rs1121 at earthlink.net >> >> Shop-talk mailing list >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk >> >> http://www.team.net/archive >> > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mikey at b2systems.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From trimmer at charter.net Mon May 25 14:37:55 2009 From: trimmer at charter.net (Ron & Mary Trimmer) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 15:37:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Caulking driveway seams Message-ID: <000b01c9dd78$af388260$0da98720$@net> When I poured my driveway, I used one inch cedar boards to divide the sections, provide strike off surfaces, and to serve as expansion joints. Many years have passed. Lots of the boards have rotted out. I want to caulk the gaps and seek recommendations on how to do it. I remember someone recommended sand to within a certain distance of the top and caulking on top of the sand. Does that work or is there something better. I know there is self leveling caulk that can be used. I did get an air tool power caulk gun some years ago in anticipation of the project. Thanks for sharing your experience. Ron Trimmer From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon May 25 15:41:49 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:41:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] weed killer In-Reply-To: <8CFB926CF3184575B37AA79EFBA085F5@niolon> Message-ID: <1999299692.13306111243287709707.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> after all that...mightn't it just be easier to cut the grass? ----- Original Message ----- From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:36:39 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Shop-talk] weed killer we've tried Roundup and Ortho Brush Killer and it browns it down but after 3 weeks it's starting to green back up... the current Roundup isn't what the old stuff was... I've found some stuff called "Barron" which is a soil sterilizer.. this should kill and sterilize for up to a year... little pricy but so are wages for someone spraying/weed every few months... I want scorched earth under the fences and building perimeters . The rock salt sounds like a good thing to try also... I still miss creosote and diesel fuel !!! From cavanadd at verizon.net Mon May 25 21:55:24 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 20:55:24 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Caulking driveway seams In-Reply-To: <000b01c9dd78$af388260$0da98720$@net> References: <000b01c9dd78$af388260$0da98720$@net> Message-ID: <4A1B682C.4010708@verizon.net> I would clean out the joints, put a foam backer rod in the gap, and then fill over it with a polyurethane sealant like this: > http://doitbest.com/main.aspx?memberid=1875h&associate=true&pageid=64&sku=272109 Dave C Ron & Mary Trimmer wrote: > When I poured my driveway, I used one inch cedar boards to divide the > sections, provide strike off surfaces, and to serve as expansion joints. > > Many years have passed. Lots of the boards have rotted out. > > I want to caulk the gaps and seek recommendations on how to do it. I > remember someone recommended sand to within a certain distance of the top > and caulking on top of the sand. Does that work or is there something > better. > > I know there is self leveling caulk that can be used. I did get an air tool > power caulk gun some years ago in anticipation of the project. > > Thanks for sharing your experience. > > Ron Trimmer > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon May 25 22:54:49 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 04:54:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question In-Reply-To: <548280855.13402761243312997792.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <582492317.13403061243313689812.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I'm re-plumbing part of the pool filter/pump setup again. I had to cut the supply and return lines about four inches off the ground. now the supply (the ones that feed to the pump and filter from the floor and skimmer drains) are flowing water. not an incredible amount--I used two caps just pressed on the ends of the cut pipe and they're sealing the lines. but...how do I get the new fittings glued on? the lines are flowing enough water that the second I remove the caps, they flow a pretty good amount of water. the cement says to apply it to clean and dry pipe. there's no way to pull the caps off, prime and/or cement and slap on the new fitting before the exterior of the pipe would be washed down. the lines are 1.5", so plugging them from the inside (and being able to remove the plug after installing the rest of the plumbing) is also problematic--the only thing I can think of are rubber plugs and clearly they won't work. and 1.5" is a little too big for wonderbread, and there's probably too much water pressure anyway. I can't figure out why the lines are flowing in the first place, either. the cut ends are above both the skimmers and (obviously) the floor drain...but water's coming out. the water is not meeting its own level. I can plug the skimmers, but the only way to get the floor drain dry is to drain the pool...which I can't do now since I've cut the pipe. so, anybody know of either a pvc cement that can be applied and used while the pieces are wet, or else a way to plug large pvc lines internally, then remove the plug after a fitting is installed? the fittings are union fittings and ball valves, so I'll be within a few inches of the plug, but the hole it has to come out is a good bit smaller than the i.d. of the pipe. or barring that, anybody want to tell me what physics magic to work to make the water stop flowing uphill? thanks in advance. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon May 25 23:40:46 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 01:40:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question In-Reply-To: <582492317.13403061243313689812.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <548280855.13402761243312997792.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <582492317.13403061243313689812.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d40905252240k370405d8odf72200dfd893086@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:54 AM, wrote: > I'm re-plumbing part of the pool filter/pump setup again. I had to cut the supply and return lines about four inches off the ground. now the supply (the ones that feed to the pump and filter from the floor and skimmer drains) are flowing water. not an incredible amount--I used two caps just pressed on the ends of the cut pipe and they're sealing the lines. > > but...how do I get the new fittings glued on? the lines are flowing enough water that the second I remove the caps, they flow a pretty good amount of water. the cement says to apply it to clean and dry pipe. there's no way to pull the caps off, prime and/or cement and slap on the new fitting before the exterior of the pipe would be washed down. > have you tried wet and dry pvc cement? it's designed for this sort of thing, though you may have more water than it can cope with. How much water have you let flow out of your pipes? Is there a loop of pip somewhere above the level of the cuts? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon May 25 23:49:23 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 22:49:23 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question In-Reply-To: <582492317.13403061243313689812.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090526054923972.MCCC28835@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > the cut ends are above both the skimmers and > (obviously) the floor drain... That's not the important part, what's important is the water level in the pool, relative to the cut ends of the pipe. Sounds to me like your pool must be built up a bit higher than the ground where you've cut the pipes (my pool is about 6" higher than the pad where the pump sits) and is nearly full. I'll bet if you first let the pipes run overnight, then use a trashcan to bail a bit out of the pool, it will let you dry the pipe and make the connection. Or a portable pump would work. My pool pump won't suck the pool completely dry anyway, so I use one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45014 to finish it off. Or if there is room to work it into your plumbing scheme, one of these will make a water-tight seal even with flowing water: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300314901668 (I found one at HD in 1.5") Randall From opposumking at verizon.net Tue May 26 03:51:49 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 05:51:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] string trimmer References: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> Message-ID: <003101c9dde7$973003e0$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> > Hey they have LP powered trimmers? Mmmhmm. Have one. It's easy to start, with no primer bulb to push or choke to adjust. Just pull the string and it starts. Clean burn, no smelling like fumes or being covered in oil. It is heavy though, you do want to use the shoulder harness. From opposumking at verizon.net Tue May 26 04:01:13 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 06:01:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] weed killer References: <8CFB926CF3184575B37AA79EFBA085F5@niolon> Message-ID: <003a01c9dde8$e78e8cc0$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> Well, creosote and diesel fuel are still available... Roundup comes in many different formulations and concentrations. Since you mentioned Ortho brush killer in the same sentence, I'd speculate that you're dealing with the very wimpy Roundup sold at Home Depot and the like. Go to an ag supply store. It'll cost you about $700 for a 3 gallon jug, but it works. Mix it with the commercial 2,4-D, and pretty much everything dies, but there is very little residual. Since you want scorched earth under the fences and around the buildings (I do understand), Southern States carries a granular that does this. Don't remember the name though. Not cheap! But it kills everything, and leave the ground bare for about 5 years. Do understand, it kills everything. Grass, trees, etc. If you really want to open the door to nasty herbicides, get your applicators licence, then you can play with Gramoxin and other nifty things. ----- Original Message ----- From: "john niolon" To: "shop-talk" Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:36 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] weed killer > we've tried Roundup and Ortho Brush Killer and it browns it down but after > 3 > weeks it's starting to green back up... the current Roundup isn't what > the > old stuff was... > > I've found some stuff called "Barron" which is a soil sterilizer.. this > should kill and sterilize for up to a year... little pricy but so are > wages > for someone spraying/weed every few months... I want scorched earth > under > the fences and building perimeters . The rock salt sounds like a good > thing > to try also... I still miss creosote and diesel fuel !!! From scott.hall at comcast.net Tue May 26 06:00:50 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:00:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question In-Reply-To: <20090526054923972.MCCC28835@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <251293318.13434561243339250779.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I probably said that wrong. the cut ends of the plumbing are above the level of water in the pool. the pool is about as full as it always would be, and the pad area is just slightly above the deck of the pool. I'd say the cut ends of the plumbing are maybe six inches above the water level. I figure I must have some sort of siphon thing going on but I have no idea how. that compression fitting would work if I can get them short enough. it will be a near thing. I think the portable pump may be the plan and harbor freight is right by the office. I was going to just let it run as well until it stopped, but I just got the pad leveled and I don't want the flow discharge to undermine it and I couldn't find any flexible hose to attach to the pipe to direct it elsewhere. on the other hand...that pump has a 1.5" barbed fitting...perhaps harbor freight sells 1.5" hose. I didn't look there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: "scott hall" , "Shop Talk List" Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:49:23 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question That's not the important part, what's important is the water level in the pool, relative to the cut ends of the pipe. Sounds to me like your pool must be built up a bit higher than the ground where you've cut the pipes (my pool is about 6" higher than the pad where the pump sits) and is nearly full. I'll bet if you first let the pipes run overnight, then use a trashcan to bail a bit out of the pool, it will let you dry the pipe and make the connection. Or a portable pump would work. My pool pump won't suck the pool completely dry anyway, so I use one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45014 to finish it off. Or if there is room to work it into your plumbing scheme, one of these will make a water-tight seal even with flowing water: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300314901668 (I found one at HD in 1.5") From doug at dougbraun.com Tue May 26 07:50:26 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 06:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question Message-ID: <346330.83867.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Arrange to have the water flow over a small paddle wheel and generator, and drain back into the pool. You could use this setup to reduce or even eliminate your electric bill. Doug --- On Tue, 5/26/09, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > From: scott.hall at comcast.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question > To: "Shop Talk List" > Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 8:00 AM > I probably said that wrong. the cut > ends of the plumbing are above the level of water in the > pool. the pool is about as full as it always would be, and > the pad area is just slightly above the deck of the pool. > I'd say the cut ends of the plumbing are maybe six inches > above the water level. I figure I must have some sort of > siphon thing going on but I have no idea how. From lee at automate-it.com Tue May 26 07:51:34 2009 From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:51:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question In-Reply-To: <251293318.13434561243339250779.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.m ail.comcast.net> References: <251293318.13434561243339250779.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3302.192.246.38.159.1243345894.squirrel@www.automate-it.com> > I probably said that wrong. the cut ends of the plumbing are above the level > of water in the pool. I'm guessing that you still have a container of water above that level. Did you drain your filter? In my setup, I've got several lines/containers higher than the pump: filter, chlorinator, heater, backwash valve cluster, and aerator. It's all going to drain to the closest, next lower opening. Or, you may be at the intersection of the earth's rotational wobble axis and the flux generator that keeps the magnetic north graviton flow from seeping into your muffler bearings. Just wear an aluminum hat for a few days and all will be well. - Lee From rs1121 at earthlink.net Tue May 26 10:12:19 2009 From: rs1121 at earthlink.net (Ron Schmittou) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:12:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] LP string trimmer In-Reply-To: <003101c9dde7$973003e0$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> References: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> <003101c9dde7$973003e0$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> Message-ID: <014901c9de1c$bec9da40$3c5d8ec0$@net> Has anyone successfully adapted to refill the small bottles from a big storage tank? I have a big tank and refill the tractor from time to time - but have never tried the "grill" bottle or the smaller ones. Thanks Ron Schmittou Ron_S at agps.us Office (972) 359-1787 Cell (214) 862-1871 From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue May 26 11:00:00 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:00:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] LP string trimmer In-Reply-To: <014901c9de1c$bec9da40$3c5d8ec0$@net> References: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> <003101c9dde7$973003e0$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> <014901c9de1c$bec9da40$3c5d8ec0$@net> Message-ID: <2400a5d40905261000i2eabd574j319447c184c6d1a8@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Ron Schmittou wrote: > Has anyone successfully adapted to refill the small bottles from a big > storage tank? > > I have a big tank and refill the tractor from time to time - but have never > tried the "grill" bottle or the smaller ones. > The small bottles are not designed to be refilled. they have no provision for venting over filling, nor are they marked for it. That said, there are adapaters available to fill them from a 20# tank. If you've got the fittings for it, filling a 20# tank from the storage tank is no different than a forklift cylinder. (It's been years since I did this. I think the forklift cylinders have a different gas fitting than 20# bottles. You need to use the internal left-hand threads on the 20# bottle to refill it, not the external right-hand ACME threads. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue May 26 14:58:54 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:58:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: [TR] electric motor Brush repair Message-ID: Shop-talk type question from another list. If you have found a method of attaching the lead to a carbon brush that works, I'd love to hear about it as well. -- Randall -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Hooper Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:11 PM To: Triumphs at autox.team.net Subject: [TR] electric motor Brush repair My karcher pressure washer gave up the ghost. I discovered that the little braided copper lead had broken off the carbon rod that forms one of the motor brushes. I can't seem to locate anybody selling the brushes, so I was wondering if I could repair it. I bored a small hole 1/4" into the carbon and inserted one end of the braid. The question is; how do I attach the braid to the carbon rod? The connection has to be somewhat solid and electrically conductive. I was wondering about liquid solder. Any experience out in list land? Cheers, Mark 1972 TR6 From scott.hall at comcast.net Tue May 26 18:11:30 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 00:11:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question In-Reply-To: <3302.192.246.38.159.1243345894.squirrel@www.automate-it.com> Message-ID: <1727305705.13819831243383090460.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> bastards. all of you. :-) the filter is cut out of the system and I got out the spirit level. the pool water level is below the pipe cuts. but then I used that to build my son's play house and it leans noticeably. I no longer believe that water finds its own level. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Braun" To: "Shop Talk List" , "scott hall" Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:50:26 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question Arrange to have the water flow over a small paddle wheel and generator, and drain back into the pool. You could use this setup to reduce or even eliminate your electric bill. Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Daniels" To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:51:34 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pvc plumbing/cement question Or, you may be at the intersection of the earth's rotational wobble axis and the flux generator that keeps the magnetic north graviton flow from seeping into your muffler bearings. Just wear an aluminum hat for a few days and all will be well. From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Tue May 26 19:44:56 2009 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 18:44:56 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] PVC patching. Message-ID: <98B9FDFD42114DDDAAD3D60D0D799784@OFFICEPC> so, anybody know of either a pvc cement that can be applied and used while the pieces are wet, or else a way to plug large pvc lines internally, then remove the plug after a fitting is installed? the fittings are union fittings and ball valves, so I'll be within a few inches of the plug, but the hole it has to come out is a good bit smaller than the i.d. of the pipe. If the water isn't under pressure you could just take the caps off for a day or two and wait for physics to run its course; sooner or later it will be done. Or: stick a balloon down the pipe, one of those long make a dog kind. And pop it once the union is in. Mark M Sebastopol I do believe in gravity, I do I do I do... From cavanadd at verizon.net Tue May 26 20:25:28 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] LP string trimmer In-Reply-To: <014901c9de1c$bec9da40$3c5d8ec0$@net> References: <027201c9dbc2$7ed81ac0$7c885040$@net> <003101c9dde7$973003e0$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> <014901c9de1c$bec9da40$3c5d8ec0$@net> Message-ID: <4A1CA498.9070703@verizon.net> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45989 I understand if you put the empty bottle in the freezer for a few hours first it works better. I have had one hanging on the wall of the shop for several years; haven't used it yet as I very seldom use small disposable propane bottles. The one on the propane torch has been there for years because I have an air/propane handpiece that hooks to a 20# tank (and an O/A rig, too), and the propane lanterns only stay lit long enough to get the generator going. Ron Schmittou wrote: > Has anyone successfully adapted to refill the small bottles from a big > storage tank? > > I have a big tank and refill the tractor from time to time - but have never > tried the "grill" bottle or the smaller ones. > > > Thanks > > Ron Schmittou > Ron_S at agps.us > > Office (972) 359-1787 > Cell (214) 862-1871 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From opposumking at verizon.net Wed May 27 03:57:10 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 05:57:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] PVC patching. References: <98B9FDFD42114DDDAAD3D60D0D799784@OFFICEPC> Message-ID: <000b01c9deb1$80c56e90$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> > so, anybody know of either a pvc cement that can be applied and used while > the pieces are wet...? Yes, it's called "wet pvc pipe cement". Usually available in the plumbing section of hardware stores. From dreinsch at swbell.net Wed May 27 05:51:44 2009 From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 04:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] PVC patching. Message-ID: <94694.7910.qm@web80206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Another way is to block the pipes with a plug so the water stops, dry the the ends and glue on a threaded coupling. Then you are able to remove the plugs, because the pipe is not closed yet and you are not trying to glue in moving water, only tighten threads until the leak is gone. In metal the piece is called a split union, I think. Dwade --- On Tue, 5/26/09, Mark Miller wrote: From: Mark Miller Subject: [Shop-talk] PVC patching. To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 8:44 PM so, anybody know of either a pvc cement that can be applied and used while the pieces are wet, or else a way to plug large pvc lines internally, then remove the plug after a fitting is installed? the fittings are union fittings and ball valves, so I'll be within a few inches of the plug, but the hole it has to come out is a good bit smaller than the i.d. of the pipe. If the water isn't under pressure you could just take the caps off for a day or two and wait for physics to run its course; sooner or later it will be done. Or: stick a balloon down the pipe, one of those long make a dog kind. And pop it once the union is in. Mark M Sebastopol I do believe in gravity, I do I do I do... You are subscribed as dreinsch at swbell.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From mark at nashvilletn.org Thu May 28 18:05:59 2009 From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:05:59 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl Graphics Message-ID: I need some list wisdom. I have a sail boat that stays in the water year around. About 15 years ago I had new graphics put on the side of the hull. Over the years it has dried out and cracked and I need to get it off so I can put new on. I can heat it up with a hair dryer and get the top layer off but the residue stays firmly attached to the fiberglass. The area is about three feet by two feet on each side of the boat. Any good ideas on how to get the vinyl glue off? Things like goo-gone, goof-off, and 3M adhesive remover don't seem to phase it. Mark Nashville http://www.arrestmered.com 58 "Bugeye" 66 TR4A S2-27 From bspidell at comcast.net Thu May 28 19:33:55 2009 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 18:33:55 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Removing Vinyl Graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A1F3B83.5040206@comcast.net> I used one of these to remove decals from a car body: http://www.interstatetoolnet.com/BuyaAstroPneumatic400EatToolNet_p_99816.html (note this is just one place that sells them) Worked well and did not harm paint or glass at all. BTW, there's an autox list for Healeys. bs Mark wrote: > I need some list wisdom. I have a sail boat that stays in the water year > around. About 15 years ago I had new graphics put on the side of the hull. > Over the years it has dried out and cracked and I need to get it off so I > can put new on. I can heat it up with a hair dryer and get the top layer > off but the residue stays firmly attached to the fiberglass. The area is > about three feet by two feet on each side of the boat. Any good ideas on > how to get the vinyl glue off? Things like goo-gone, goof-off, and 3M > adhesive remover don't seem to phase it. > > Mark > Nashville > http://www.arrestmered.com > 58 "Bugeye" > 66 TR4A > S2-27 ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Thu May 28 22:14:08 2009 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 21:14:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] String trimmers, again. Message-ID: <8FD4E26E8C694D129E1BD91C000648EA@OFFICEPC> Hey, just want to add to the recent thread on string trimmers: I have a cheap Ryobi I bought a year or so ago. This weekend it stopped working. Is seems that the shaft separated from the big chunk of metal (sorry for going all technical on you all) that connects everything together. It looked to have just been pressed on. Astounding that it held together long enough for the warranty to expire. Next one will most likely be quite a bit better made. Mark. From cavanadd at verizon.net Thu May 28 23:19:22 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 22:19:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] String trimmers, again. In-Reply-To: <8FD4E26E8C694D129E1BD91C000648EA@OFFICEPC> References: <8FD4E26E8C694D129E1BD91C000648EA@OFFICEPC> Message-ID: <4A1F705A.1040604@verizon.net> In the spirit of They Don't Make 'Em Like They Used To, we still have an original yellow Weed Eater that my father in law bought who knows how long ago in Spokane. It's so old it has the single line manual head. My wife still uses it to trim around the back fence. Me, I use my big he-man Sthil straight shaft bike handle trimmer to beat the weeds, shrubs, small trees and slugs into submission. Mark Miller wrote: > Hey, just want to add to the recent thread on string trimmers: I have a > cheap Ryobi I bought a year or so ago. This weekend it stopped working. Is > seems that the shaft separated from the big chunk of metal (sorry for going > all technical on you all) that connects everything together. It looked to > have just been pressed on. Astounding that it held together long enough for > the warranty to expire. Next one will most likely be quite a bit better > made. > > Mark. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From scott.hall at comcast.net Fri May 29 11:05:00 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:05:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <8FD4E26E8C694D129E1BD91C000648EA@OFFICEPC> Message-ID: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> not at all shop related, but it's my boss' car, I'm at work, and I figure you guys would be the place for the quick, correct answer. his 1990 miata has an off-idle/tip-in 'miss' (I think). it idles okay, and at full throttle, it sounds and seems to pull okay as well. but when he just starts to put his foot down it seems to be missing. it sounds JUST like an old air-cooled vw bug. and it shakes, etc. we just replaced the plugs because it was cheap and quick and that may have improved things slightly, but the miss is still there. I figure the miata, lending itself to the scca as it does, and thinking some of you guys might be scca guys, somebody might know that all miatas have this issue, and it's the left hand muffler bearing that needs to be replaced. I am the car guy at the office, and I'm new so it'd be nice to look good. any ideas? thanks. scott From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri May 29 11:22:44 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:22:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A2019E4.9060702@xxiii.com> scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > not at all shop related, but it's my boss' car, I'm at work, and I figure you guys would be the place for the quick, correct answer. > his 1990 miata has an off-idle/tip-in 'miss' (I think). it idles okay, and at full throttle, it sounds and seems to pull okay as well. but when he just starts to put his foot down it seems to be missing. it sounds JUST like an old air-cooled vw bug. and it shakes, etc. www.Miata.net has a bunch of good info in their garage section. And on the forums. Wife & I have a 1990 too. I'd guess maybe the vacuum plugs at the throttle body or back of manifold cracked or leaking. Plug wires are notoriously short lived. -Wayne From cak at dimebank.com Fri May 29 11:27:22 2009 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue Message-ID: <200905291727.n4THRM6M024006@moose.dimebank.com> If it was a car with carberetters, I'd suspect the accelerator pump or whatever passes for one (damping oil for British carbs)... perhaps there's some sort of enrichment device, vacuum actuated(?), that is failing? From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com Fri May 29 11:32:02 2009 From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:32:02 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <200905291727.n4THRM6M024006@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200905291727.n4THRM6M024006@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <634C2495-1434-47FC-B718-47D4EE2D2C04@trebelhorn.com> The one notorious problem with the early Miatas -- that I know of -- is crank failure. The timing gear gets loose on the nose of the crank, and wobbles, giving highly erratic valve timing -- which can give all kinds of weird symptoms. Try wobbling the crank pulley by hand. If you can, you've found the problem. The only fix is a new crank, but can be stuck together with a lot of loctite to last for a decent amount of time. Matt From brabel at comcast.net Fri May 29 11:42:04 2009 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:42:04 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: If the Miata has not had the spark plug wires replaced, that is the problem. My dealer stopped me from making an appointment for a tune-up. They said to leave the car parked in the service bay, go buy the new wires at Parts, and install them myself. Cured. > his 1990 miata has an off-idle/tip-in 'miss' (I think). it idles > okay, and at full throttle, it sounds and seems to pull okay as > well. but when he just starts to put his foot down it seems to be > missing. it sounds JUST like an old air-cooled vw bug. and it > shakes, etc. - Bill Rabel Anacortes, WA From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri May 29 13:02:47 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 14:02:47 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: References: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Keep that dealer! Most of them would have replaced the wires and charged you for it. Mine tried to tell me a gasket needed to be replaced. The miata.net says the gasket does not exists. I guessing the muffler bearings will be needed the next time they see my car. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > From: brabel at comcast.net > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:42:04 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue > > If the Miata has not had the spark plug wires replaced, that is the > problem. > > My dealer stopped me from making an appointment for a tune-up. They > said to leave the car parked in the service bay, go buy the new wires > at Parts, and install them myself. Cured. > > > his 1990 miata has an off-idle/tip-in 'miss' (I think). it idles > > okay, and at full throttle, it sounds and seems to pull okay as > > well. but when he just starts to put his foot down it seems to be > > missing. it sounds JUST like an old air-cooled vw bug. and it > > shakes, etc. > > > > - Bill Rabel > Anacortes, WA > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri May 29 15:20:34 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:20:34 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <9986F5DA42A844D28FF1208EC76A60F1@EricJRussellPC> I know nothing about Miata's (well, I do know what they are...). However, if you were asking about an Alfa Romeo Spider with L-jetronic FI, I'd say classic intake air/vacuum leak. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > 1990 miata has an off-idle/tip-in 'miss' (I think). it idles okay, and at > full throttle, it sounds and seems to pull okay as well. but when he just > starts to put his foot down it seems to be missing. it sounds JUST like an > old air-cooled vw bug. and it shakes, etc. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri May 29 15:44:04 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:44:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <9986F5DA42A844D28FF1208EC76A60F1@EricJRussellPC> References: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <9986F5DA42A844D28FF1208EC76A60F1@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <4A205724.30302@xxiii.com> Eric J Russell wrote: > I know nothing about Miata's (well, I do know what they are...). > However, if you were asking about an Alfa Romeo Spider with L-jetronic > FI, I'd say classic intake air/vacuum leak. Yup, it's basically an L-jet clone system. Here's the link to that vacuum problem I mentioned earlier: http://www.miata.net/garage/vacuum.html I think the writer is making it way too difficult with his glue-in plugs. Buy some rubber caps at AutoZone and be done with it for another 20 years. -Wayne From miq at bigllama.com Fri May 29 16:41:41 2009 From: miq at bigllama.com (Miq Millman) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 15:41:41 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <8FD4E26E8C694D129E1BD91C000648EA@OFFICEPC> <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <137e0ee60905291541y4520c416v1c6bfbf4d9ef648@mail.gmail.com> Scott - I'd bet a dollar your boss' car is suffering from the nose pulley failure common to early 1.6l Miatas. Sometime around 1991 Mazda changed the crank's nose pulley and the bolt that holds it in place to be a larger unit. This is the gear that holds the timing belt. With the early 1.6l, the bolt can vibrate loose (or be misinstalled during a timing belt change) and cause the pulley to wobble to the point of the keyway wearing away at both the crank and the geared pulley. When this happens, the static timing at various RPM is fine, but when the engine is in a transition stage (i.e. semi-acceleration) the timing is off. You can likely limp along with a JB Weld type fix, but the easiest and likely most economical fix is an engine swap--preferably to a later 1.8l out of a 1999-2001. On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:05 AM, wrote: > not at all shop related, but it's my boss' car, I'm at work, and I figure > you guys would be the place for the quick, correct answer. > > his 1990 miata has an off-idle/tip-in 'miss' (I think). it idles okay, and > at full throttle, it sounds and seems to pull okay as well. but when he just > starts to put his foot down it seems to be missing. it sounds JUST like an > old air-cooled vw bug. and it shakes, etc. > > we just replaced the plugs because it was cheap and quick and that may have > improved things slightly, but the miss is still there. I figure the miata, > lending itself to the scca as it does, and thinking some of you guys might > be scca guys, somebody might know that all miatas have this issue, and it's > the left hand muffler bearing that needs to be replaced. I am the car guy at > the office, and I'm new so it'd be nice to look good. any ideas? > > thanks. > > scott > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as miq at bigllama.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > -- -- __ Miq Millman miq at bigllama.com Tualatin, OR Big Llama Productions From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri May 29 17:05:44 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 19:05:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <4A205724.30302@xxiii.com> References: <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><9986F5DA42A844D28FF1208EC76A60F1@EricJRussellPC> <4A205724.30302@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <77AA74A2640D469A90543189E6AFD69A@EricJRussellPC> Here's an Alfa Spider L-jetronic page I helped write: http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Ljetspider.htm Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne" > Eric J Russell wrote: >> I know nothing about Miata's (well, I do know what they are...). >> However, if you were asking about an Alfa Romeo Spider with L-jetronic >> FI, I'd say classic intake air/vacuum leak. > > Yup, it's basically an L-jet clone system. Here's the link to that vacuum > problem I mentioned earlier: > http://www.miata.net/garage/vacuum.html > I think the writer is making it way too difficult with his glue-in plugs. > Buy some rubber caps at AutoZone and be done with it for another 20 years. From coles at colesnurseries.com Sat May 30 21:07:31 2009 From: coles at colesnurseries.com (Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc)) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 23:07:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford Ranger Problems Message-ID: I've inherited a 90's Ford Ranger pickup which still runs well. The problem is I can't turn the key switch off all the way to be able to remove the keys in the steering column. It must be related to the safety feature between the steering wheel lock and the ignition. Does anyone have any tips as to how I can fix it ? Thanks, Dan From kvacek at ameritech.net Sat May 30 21:12:20 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 22:12:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford Ranger Problems References: Message-ID: <4415D760569449C0894572637BDE90EF@KARL> I'm sure you're aware of the button or lever you have to push to retrieve the key on many Fords ?? Just had to mention it, as most cars don't have this "feature". Karl > I've inherited a 90's Ford Ranger pickup which still runs well. The > problem > is I can't turn the key switch off all the way to be able to remove the > keys > in the steering column. It must be related to the safety feature between > the > steering wheel lock and the ignition. Does anyone have any tips as to how > I > can fix it ? > Thanks, > Dan From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat May 30 21:34:57 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 23:34:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ford Ranger Problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2400a5d40905302034w328b9c9x3e66edffb95c51f3@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc) wrote: > I've inherited a 90's Ford Ranger pickup which still runs well. B The problem > is I can't turn the key switch off all the way to be able to remove the keys > in the steering column. B It must be related to the safety feature between the > steering wheel lock and the ignition. B Does anyone have any tips as to how I > can fix it ? > Thanks, > Dan > If it's not Karl's suggestion (you're not pushing the right lever), it's more likely that it's the interlock that detects the tranny is in park. Or the lock is broken. That's pretty common. At least it's broken in the easy to fix way (there's a button that you push when the key is in the run position (or maybe start, it's been ages since I've done one.) to pull the lock). -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From ronald.olds at mchsi.com Sun May 31 06:31:57 2009 From: ronald.olds at mchsi.com (Ronald Olds) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 08:31:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] (no subject) Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I have a problem where my house air conditional condensation line drains on to the ground. I live in North East North Carolina where the AC is used a lot and the humidity is fairly high. The ground area (a couple of feet in diameter) around the end of the pipe is extremely wet; to the point of a puddle of water sitting on top of the ground. I need to do something to get rid of disperse this water. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks, Ron Olds From bjzwissler at gmail.com Sun May 31 07:24:32 2009 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Ben Zwissler) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 09:24:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A228510.1030105@gmail.com> They make condensate pumps that collect the water in a reservoir and then periodically pump it out. You could pump it into your waste water pipe or into a storm drain. Another option is create a dry well - a buried 55 gallon drum filled with rocks and punctured to let water out. This distributes the water better, but may not solve your problem if you've got too much water. Ben Zwissler bjzwissler at gmail.com Columbus, IN On 5/31/2009 8:31 AM, Ronald Olds wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > > > I have a problem where my house air conditional condensation line drains on > to the ground. I live in North East North Carolina where the AC is used a > lot and the humidity is fairly high. The ground area (a couple of feet in > diameter) around the end of the pipe is extremely wet; to the point of a > puddle of water sitting on top of the ground. I need to do something to get > rid of disperse this water. Anyone have any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ron Olds From kennedybc at comcast.net Sun May 31 07:56:01 2009 From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian Kennedy) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 06:56:01 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <4A228510.1030105@gmail.com> Message-ID: A big enough dry well should do the job. How about attaching it to a soaker hose? Is there something nearby that needs watering? Brian Kennedy On 5/31/09 6:24 AM, "Ben Zwissler" wrote: > They make condensate pumps that collect the water in a reservoir and > then periodically pump it out. You could pump it into your waste water > pipe or into a storm drain. > > Another option is create a dry well - a buried 55 gallon drum filled > with rocks and punctured to let water out. This distributes the water > better, but may not solve your problem if you've got too much water. > > Ben Zwissler > bjzwissler at gmail.com > Columbus, IN > > > > On 5/31/2009 8:31 AM, Ronald Olds wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >> >> >> >> I have a problem where my house air conditional condensation line drains on >> to the ground. I live in North East North Carolina where the AC is used a >> lot and the humidity is fairly high. The ground area (a couple of feet in >> diameter) around the end of the pipe is extremely wet; to the point of a >> puddle of water sitting on top of the ground. I need to do something to get >> rid of disperse this water. Anyone have any ideas? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Ron Olds From jblair1948 at cox.net Sun May 31 08:16:44 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 10:16:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090531101027.0202ce38@cox.net> At 08:31 AM 5/31/2009, Ronald Olds wrote: >I have a problem where my house air conditional condensation line drains on >to the ground. I live in North East North Carolina where the AC is used a >lot and the humidity is fairly high. The ground area (a couple of feet in >diameter) around the end of the pipe is extremely wet; to the point of a >puddle of water sitting on top of the ground. I need to do something to get >rid of disperse this water. Anyone have any ideas? Ron, I now the problem well, living here in Va Beach. I never really worried about it. I have one of those cement blocks under my drip tube (like you have under your gutter down spouts). But the water still ponds and the area right around the cement is muddy. Fortunately, I don't have to get to that area. What some of the neighbors have done is to take a piece of PVC tubing and run it from their drip pipe diagonally down the side of their house into a flower bed. The other thing you can do is to put in a French drain. That's nothing more than a hole filled with some rocks. If you have hard clay down a from 6" to 12" or so you might want to dig (or use an powered auger) down through that. You can get some plastic tubing at places like HomeDepot that is about 4" in dia. and has holes all through it. Put that in the hole, to keep the earth from colapsing into the hole, then fill that with rock. Hope this helps. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun May 31 10:20:11 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 12:20:11 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] decking dimensions? In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40905231235j2ce29609je42bd0a8a557a491@mail.gmail.com> References: <2400a5d40905231235j2ce29609je42bd0a8a557a491@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40905310920r77a46db4jaa6cbd8789111da2@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 3:35 PM, David Scheidt wrote: > I have this nagging feeling that decking comes in two fairly common > thicknesses. B 5/4, which, of course, is only an inch thick, and a > slightly thicker size. B What's the other size? I love lumber dimensions. The stuff I was thinking of, and the stuff our deck is made of, is 1 5/32" decking. How in the world a piece of lumber gets sold with it's actual dimensions labeled, I don't know. Neither Home Depot nor Lowes sell the stuff locally, but the real lumber suppliers do. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From shiples at comcast.net Sun May 31 18:13:54 2009 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 17:13:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Words of Wisdom needed Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20090531165316.0347c678@mail.comcast.net> I'm trying to dig my Lotus 7 out of the garage (oops shop!) and get it running. There was a moment of sadness when looking at the rear axle housing. It's originally out of a Triumph Standard 10 I believe. Anyway it looks like any other rear axle but the back part of the axle where the gears reside is covered by a formed steel cover that is welded to the axle casting. This cover has about a two inch crack, on the upper part so the lube is still contained. I have a choice of welders; gas, mig, and tig. Unfortunately I am stuck with one weldor, me. So I'm thinkin'....about welding up the crack...and just how to do it. From the outside, from the inside, from bothsides.... should I drill at the ends of the crack or will the welding alone stop the progression? I'm pretty sure there are a variety of ways to fix this, I'm interested in your thoughts on how you would approach this. Steve Shipley Seattle, WA From bspidell at comcast.net Sun May 31 18:50:00 2009 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 17:50:00 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Words of Wisdom needed In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20090531165316.0347c678@mail.comcast.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20090531165316.0347c678@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A2325B8.6010600@comcast.net> Steve, I'm not much of a welder--and don't play one on TV--but I have some experience with MIG (getting ready to buy first TIG). Plus, it sounds like my Austin-Healey 3000 has a similar axle housing. This sure sounds like a job for a TIG. MIG would work, but you'd probably pile up a large(r) bead, and maybe not get as much penetration. OA gas would work too, but probably cause more collateral damage. If your axle is like my Healey's, it doesn't appear as if the back plate bears much load/stress--makes me wonder why it cracked?--so welding from the outside alone should work (I'd drain the diff first). I don't think stop-drilling is necessary if you make sure to carry the bead past the ends of the crack. I don't know how thick the metal is here, but you might consider beveling out the crack so you get better penetration (that's the key to this type of repair) and, of course, clean the surface thoroughly. Bob Steve Shipley wrote: > I'm trying to dig my Lotus 7 out of the garage (oops shop!) and get it > running. > > There was a moment of sadness when looking at the rear axle housing. > It's originally out of a Triumph Standard 10 I believe. > > Anyway it looks like any other rear axle but the back part of the axle > where the gears reside is covered by a formed steel cover that > is welded to the axle casting. This cover has about a two inch crack, > on the upper part so the lube is still contained. > > I have a choice of welders; gas, mig, and tig. Unfortunately I am stuck > with one weldor, me. > > So I'm thinkin'....about welding up the crack...and just how to do it. > From the outside, from the inside, from bothsides.... > should I drill at the ends of the crack or will the welding alone > stop the progression? I'm pretty sure there are a variety of ways > to fix this, I'm interested in your thoughts on how you would approach > this. > > Steve Shipley > Seattle, WA -- ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From shiples at comcast.net Sun May 31 19:31:42 2009 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 18:31:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Words of Wisdom needed In-Reply-To: <4A2325B8.6010600@comcast.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20090531165316.0347c678@mail.comcast.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20090531165316.0347c678@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20090531183000.033f99e0@mail.comcast.net> At 05:50 PM 5/31/2009 -0700, you wrote: >Steve, > >I'm not much of a welder--and don't play one on TV--but I have some >experience with MIG (getting ready to buy first TIG). Plus, it sounds >like my Austin-Healey 3000 has a similar axle housing. > >This sure sounds like a job for a TIG. MIG would work, but you'd probably >pile up a large(r) bead, and maybe not get as much penetration. OA gas >would work too, but probably cause more collateral damage. That was my first thought, thanks for the confirmation. >If your axle is like my Healey's, it doesn't appear as if the back plate >bears much load/stress--makes me wonder why it cracked?-- Lotus 7's are famous for this, you start with an axle designed for 40? bhp, then you use it with 90 bhp, and then 120 bhp and they crack. The standard fix is to weld a quarter inch stiffener from the suspension pickups across the pumpkin. My car was original, but badly treated, that I was able to make into a correct but unoriginal example. The cracking has been seen many times before, so when I discovered it, I knew what happened. >so welding from the outside alone should work (I'd drain the diff first). I wasn't going to drain it, thanks for the wisdom! > I don't think stop-drilling is necessary if you make sure to carry the > bead past the ends of the crack. No matter what, this might be a failure point in the future. I may have to reinforce the axle. >I don't know how thick the metal is here, but you might consider beveling >out the crack so you get better penetration (that's the key to this type >of repair) and, of course, clean the surface thoroughly. I think I'd be a much better welder if I practiced better metal hygiene. More good advice. >Bob > > >Steve Shipley wrote: >>I'm trying to dig my Lotus 7 out of the garage (oops shop!) and get it >>running. >>There was a moment of sadness when looking at the rear axle housing. >>It's originally out of a Triumph Standard 10 I believe. >>Anyway it looks like any other rear axle but the back part of the axle >>where the gears reside is covered by a formed steel cover that >>is welded to the axle casting. This cover has about a two inch crack, >>on the upper part so the lube is still contained. >>I have a choice of welders; gas, mig, and tig. Unfortunately I am stuck >>with one weldor, me. >>So I'm thinkin'....about welding up the crack...and just how to do it. >> From the outside, from the inside, from bothsides.... >>should I drill at the ends of the crack or will the welding alone >>stop the progression? I'm pretty sure there are a variety of ways >>to fix this, I'm interested in your thoughts on how you would approach this. >>Steve Shipley >>Seattle, WA > > > >-- >******************************************************************* >Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net > >******************************************************************* From dondenning at classicnet.net Sun May 31 20:14:51 2009 From: dondenning at classicnet.net (Don Denning) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:14:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] (no subject) References: Message-ID: <8BCCC4CE5BCC462BA0F308DBBB0D69EC@LivingRoom> Most of the drains I've seen go into a "soil stack" and if that stops up, the secondary pan catches the overflow. My overflow pan drains through tubing at the eve and onto the ground. Might be what you are seeing. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Olds" To: Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:31 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] (no subject) > Hello Everyone, > > > > I have a problem where my house air conditional condensation line drains > on > to the ground. I live in North East North Carolina where the AC is used a > lot and the humidity is fairly high. The ground area (a couple of feet in > diameter) around the end of the pipe is extremely wet; to the point of a > puddle of water sitting on top of the ground. I need to do something to > get > rid of disperse this water. Anyone have any ideas? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ron Olds > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as dondenning at classicnet.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.48/2147 - Release Date: 05/31/09 20:45:00 [demime found a multipart/alternative section which it tried to parse but could not find any section which it could render. Please send plain text.] From trevor at boicey.com Sun May 31 22:36:03 2009 From: trevor at boicey.com (Trevor Boicey) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 00:36:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] mazda miata issue In-Reply-To: <137e0ee60905291541y4520c416v1c6bfbf4d9ef648@mail.gmail.com> References: <8FD4E26E8C694D129E1BD91C000648EA@OFFICEPC> <1552932251.15083441243616700127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <137e0ee60905291541y4520c416v1c6bfbf4d9ef648@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A235AB3.1030604@boicey.com> Miq Millman wrote: > Scott - > > I'd bet a dollar your boss' car is suffering from the nose pulley failure > common to early 1.6l Miatas. My wife has a 1.6L miata with the infamous "sport lightweight crankshaft". Following the wisdom of the internet, I have never removed that front bolt, ignoring the scheduled oil seal service, and it has been fine. The bolt USUALLY fails some time after it has been removed, and then either torqued incorrectly or just bad luck. So to the original poster, was the crank bolt recently removed?