From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Mar 1 00:11:55 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:11:55 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage In-Reply-To: <0B25C932-D23C-4F96-A42A-3E4DE26418ED@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20090301071155.IKVV20000.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@randall> > Just a dumba$$ accountant and part time Sprite mechanic. Not to worry, Phil, I have a hard time telling a debit from a credit and usually have to make accounts balance by drilling holes in them! Randall From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sun Mar 1 08:30:33 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:30:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage In-Reply-To: <0B25C932-D23C-4F96-A42A-3E4DE26418ED@verizon.net> References: <20090228195011.XEXC15930.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> <0B25C932-D23C-4F96-A42A-3E4DE26418ED@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8469A9CF7424409B9BD936D571536BDC@EricJRussellPC> The only thing I understand is the Smoke Theory of Electricity. http://www.peizhang.com/forfun/forfun_writings_smoke.htm Eric Russell Mebane, NC ----- Original Message ----- > Can you tell anything more than simple auto wiring confuses me? > > Phil Nase From doug at dougbraun.com Sun Mar 1 10:21:51 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 09:21:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage In-Reply-To: <20090228195011.XEXC15930.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> Message-ID: <629248.89813.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> One of the things I read a few days ago about fluorescent bulbs said that some "Energy-saving" bulbs use less power, but their light output is lower, too, and the lumens-per-watt is often worse than regular bulbs. And isn't the main job of a ballast to control the amount of current(and power delivered to the bulb? So you could make an "energy saving" ballast that is no more efficient than a regular one- it just sends less current to the bulb, giving you less light output. One other thing that occurred to me: How can you easily measure now much power a fluorescent bulb is consuming, not counting the ballast? It's easy for an incandescent bulb: it is a pure resistive load and you simply have to measure the RMS current and voltage. But the voltage and current of a fluorescent lamp probably have a complex waveform and phase relationship, and you would need laboratory-style instrumentation to accurately measure the true power. And measuring a complete bulb+ballast fixture with a Kill-a-Watt style meter may not be very accurate because of the power factor of a magnetic ballast, and non linearity of an electronic one. Doug From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Mar 1 15:08:21 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 14:08:21 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage In-Reply-To: <629248.89813.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090301220821.YXEF12934.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@randall> > And measuring a complete bulb+ballast fixture with a > Kill-a-Watt style meter may not be very accurate because of > the power factor of a magnetic ballast, and non linearity of > an electronic one. While I have not tried one myself, it's my understanding that the Kill-a-Watt meter measures both apparent and true RMS power. It has displays for watts, volt-amps, power factor, etc. Fairly easy to do, all it takes is a small microprocessor and a couple of A/D converters (one measuring current, the other voltage). We're only dealing with a 60 Hz waveform, so a cheap 50kHz A/D will give us almost 1000 samples per cycle. That's plenty to give us a very good approximation of true power. I'm sure there are better techniques available, but it wouldn't take much processing power at all by today's standards to capture a few cycles worth of data points; multiply each voltage,current pair together; and do a brute-force RMS calculation on them. (Multiply each value by itself, add up the squares, divide by the number of samples, and take the square root of that.) Compared to what my digital camera does every time I push the button, that's nothing. Randall From doug at dougbraun.com Sun Mar 1 17:43:37 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 16:43:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage In-Reply-To: <20090301220821.YXEF12934.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@randall> Message-ID: <244105.21424.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's a nice unit, then. I have a fairly cheesy power meter from Lacrosse, similar in style to the Kill-a-Watt, and it clearly does not consider power factor, just current as measured across a shunt resistor. More recently I got a TED 1000 (www.theenergydetective.com). It has clamp-on sensors for both main feed conductors and measures true RMS. It also has a PC interface for logging, etc. I'm pretty happy with it, but it is not meant to measure power usage of individual appliances like a Kill-a-Watt. Doug --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Randall wrote: > From: Randall > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 5:08 PM > > And measuring a complete bulb+ballast fixture with a > > Kill-a-Watt style meter may not be very accurate > because of > > the power factor of a magnetic ballast, and non > linearity of > > an electronic one. > > While I have not tried one myself, it's my > understanding that the > Kill-a-Watt meter measures both apparent and true RMS > power. It has > displays for watts, volt-amps, power factor, etc. > > Fairly easy to do, all it takes is a small microprocessor > and a couple of > A/D converters (one measuring current, the other voltage). > We're only > dealing with a 60 Hz waveform, so a cheap 50kHz A/D will > give us almost 1000 > samples per cycle. That's plenty to give us a very > good approximation of > true power. I'm sure there are better techniques > available, but it wouldn't > take much processing power at all by today's standards > to capture a few > cycles worth of data points; multiply each voltage,current > pair together; > and do a brute-force RMS calculation on them. (Multiply > each value by > itself, add up the squares, divide by the number of > samples, and take the > square root of that.) > > Compared to what my digital camera does every time I push > the button, that's > nothing. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Wed Mar 4 17:38:19 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 19:38:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] table saw safety (not) Message-ID: Nobody here I presume... http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/item/6654/tablesaw-techniques-i-wouldnt-re commend Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From pat at hornesystemstx.com Wed Mar 4 17:55:49 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:55:49 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] table saw safety (not) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AF2315.4050700@hornesystemstx.com> I don't think I saw even ONE proper technique in that video! NEVER use a fence and square at the same time on a saw (although I watched Bob Villa do it on a show several years ago). Always adjust the blade height before starting the saw, etc. You'd think the guy could also afford a replacement starting capacitor, or at least a good first aid kit! Peace, Pat Thusly spake Eric J Russell, On 3/4/2009 6:38 PM: > Nobody here I presume... > http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/item/6654/tablesaw-techniques-i-wouldnt-re > commend > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 03/03/09 16:09:00 > > -- --- Pat Horne 512.797.7501 Owner, Horne Systems pat at hornesystemstx.com 5026 FM 2001 Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 --We support Habitat for Humanity, a hand UP, not a hand OUT-- From cavanadd at verizon.net Wed Mar 4 19:48:23 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:48:23 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] table saw safety (not) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49AF3D77.9050007@verizon.net> That one has been going around the woodworking forums for a while. The guy is a real imbecile. Dave C Eric J Russell wrote: > Nobody here I presume... > http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/item/6654/tablesaw-techniques-i-wouldnt-re > commend > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From bob at texmog.com Wed Mar 4 20:27:49 2009 From: bob at texmog.com (bob at texmog.com) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:27:49 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] table saw safety (not) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <799057B7D35A4A469795239A41952664@CARROOM> It is not me Eric, but after viewing it I thought about how the safety shield on my compound miter saw broke during my last project and I taped it back to finish the final few cuts. Well after seeing the video I got up and went out to the garage and made a proper repair. Bob Nogueira PS I would NOT recommend a Delta compound miter saw to anyone!!!! > -----Original Message----- > > Nobody here I presume... > http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/item/6654/tablesaw-techniqu > es-i-wouldnt-re > commend > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC From mark at sccaprepared.com Wed Mar 4 21:01:04 2009 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 23:01:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] table saw safety (not) In-Reply-To: <49AF3D77.9050007@verizon.net> References: <49AF3D77.9050007@verizon.net> Message-ID: Howdy, On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, David C. wrote: > That one has been going around the woodworking forums for a while. The guy > is a real imbecile. Out of curiosity... Why? Seems like as long as he keeps his body parts out of the path of moving things, the worst case is the board slips, the motor crashes down onto the belts and snaps them, flinging them into his face. Nothing he's doing strikes me as a way to get seriously injured, provided he doesn't fall into the belts or something. Mark From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Mar 5 06:03:18 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:03:18 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] table saw safety (not) In-Reply-To: References: <49AF3D77.9050007@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49AFCD96.9080608@hornesystemstx.com> Other than the obvious stuff with the way he starts the motor: Never use a fence and miter square at the same time. It is too easy to bind the wood and cause kick back. If you use the fence to set your dimension, put a small spacer at the front of the fence that the wood will be against for the measurement, but when you push the wood into the blade the wood should not be against the fence. No Blade Guard. Always adjust the saw before starting the motor, something may catch on the blade and cause damage either to the saw, or the operator. Did I miss anything? Peace, Pat Thusly spake Mark Andy, On 3/4/2009 10:01 PM: > Howdy, > > On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, David C. wrote: >> That one has been going around the woodworking forums for a while. >> The guy is a real imbecile. > > Out of curiosity... Why? Seems like as long as he keeps his body > parts out of the path of moving things, the worst case is the board > slips, the motor crashes down onto the belts and snaps them, flinging > them into his face. > > Nothing he's doing strikes me as a way to get seriously injured, > provided he doesn't fall into the belts or something. > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 03/03/09 16:09:00 > > -- --- Pat Horne 512.797.7501 Owner, Horne Systems pat at hornesystemstx.com 5026 FM 2001 Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 --We support Habitat for Humanity, a hand UP, not a hand OUT-- From eltonclark at gmail.com Thu Mar 5 16:14:29 2009 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 17:14:29 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] table saw safety (not) In-Reply-To: <49AFCD96.9080608@hornesystemstx.com> References: <49AF3D77.9050007@verizon.net> <49AFCD96.9080608@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: *Okay, that's enough! Yer hurtin' my feelings, I use an ol' Sears saw jus exactly like that one 'cept it'd been kept in good shape.* *Tony* *:->* From pat at hornesystemstx.com Thu Mar 5 19:26:36 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:26:36 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] table saw safety (not) In-Reply-To: References: <49AF3D77.9050007@verizon.net> <49AFCD96.9080608@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <49B089DC.5020702@hornesystemstx.com> Tony, Congrats on keeping your saw in good shape! That's the first step in being safe. While I require that all safety equipment be in place on power tools on Habitat for Humanity job sites that I lead, I confess that the blade guard on my home shop table saw is hanging nicely on the wall! If someone is familiar with a power tool and is the only one who uses it, running without the safety gear in place isn't as big a deal as where someone else is likely to use the tool. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Elton E. (Tony) Clark, On 3/5/2009 5:14 PM: > *Okay, that's enough! Yer hurtin' my feelings, I use an ol' Sears saw > jus exactly like that one 'cept it'd been kept in good shape.* > *Tony* > *:->* > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1985 - Release Date: 03/05/09 07:54:00 > > -- --- Pat Horne 512.797.7501 Owner, Horne Systems pat at hornesystemstx.com 5026 FM 2001 Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 --We support Habitat for Humanity, a hand UP, not a hand OUT-- From nick at landform.co.uk Fri Mar 6 02:36:28 2009 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:36:28 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers Message-ID: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> Hello, Wondering if anyone has experience of angle impact drivers as seen here: http://www.makitafactoryoutlet.com/%5Cmakita%5Cproducts%5CBTL061Z.asp I'm looking for something to do the work of an air ratchet on site away from an air supply. Any opinions gratefully received. Thanks. Nick Brearley From paul.mele at usermail.com Fri Mar 6 05:49:05 2009 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:49:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers In-Reply-To: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> References: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> Message-ID: <000301c99e59$efb1ba90$cf152fb0$@mele@usermail.com> a thought... 45 ft-lbs and 1/4-inch drive doesn't seem too useful for car work; I guess it might have a place for a very tight spot and small fastener. not sure what you'd be doing... PM <<>>> From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Mar 6 06:49:33 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 05:49:33 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers In-Reply-To: <000301c99e59$efb1ba90$cf152fb0$@mele@usermail.com> Message-ID: <20090306134933.JPYD12334.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@randall> > 45 ft-lbs and 1/4-inch drive doesn't seem too useful for car > work; I dunno, I think that's all my 3/8" air ratchet is rated for; and the vast majority of fasteners on my cars take that much or less. Standard torque for a 3/8"NC Grade 5 is only 35 ft-lb. But then there is the question of how much it actually delivers under real world conditions. My "250 ft lb" impact driver is lucky to muster half that much. Randall From mark at sccaprepared.com Fri Mar 6 08:34:08 2009 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:34:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers In-Reply-To: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> References: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> Message-ID: Howdy, On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, nick brearley wrote: > Wondering if anyone has experience of angle impact drivers as seen here: > > http://www.makitafactoryoutlet.com/%5Cmakita%5Cproducts%5CBTL061Z.asp > > I'm looking for something to do the work of an air ratchet on site away > from an air supply. Any opinions gratefully received. I've never used one of those, but I've had a Milwaukee 1/2" battery powered impact gun for a long time now... Its easily one of the best tool purchases I've ever made. I don't know what you're doing, but for me with car work, I tend to find the the air ratchets of fairly marginal value even when I have air handy. If I didn't have it handy, I'd certainly just use a regular ratchet. The impact gun, on the other hand, lets me do stuff that I can't easily do another way, like removing wheels without needing to break lugs loose, spinning nuts off strut shafts, etc. Mark From nick at landform.co.uk Fri Mar 6 10:07:36 2009 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:07:36 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers In-Reply-To: References: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> Message-ID: <49B15858.50709@landform.co.uk> Mark Andy wrote: > Howdy, > > On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, nick brearley wrote: >> Wondering if anyone has experience of angle impact drivers as seen here: >> >> http://www.makitafactoryoutlet.com/%5Cmakita%5Cproducts%5CBTL061Z.asp >> >> I'm looking for something to do the work of an air ratchet on site >> away from an air supply. Any opinions gratefully received. > > I've never used one of those, but I've had a Milwaukee 1/2" battery > powered impact gun for a long time now... Its easily one of the best > tool purchases I've ever made. > > I don't know what you're doing, but for me with car work, I tend to > find the the air ratchets of fairly marginal value even when I have > air handy. If I didn't have it handy, I'd certainly just use a regular > ratchet. > > The impact gun, on the other hand, lets me do stuff that I can't > easily do another way, like removing wheels without needing to break > lugs loose, spinning nuts off strut shafts, etc. Howdy Mark, I'm a fully paid up member of the battery impact gun fan club. But the job I have in mind is changing blades on a rotary cultivator type machine which has pairs of blades fixed on to flanges three inches apart. The limited clearance rules out an impact gun. With two nuts per blade that's 96 nuts per change, a job that an air ratchet is ideal for. The only thing is you need the ratchet facility to crack the nuts manually before spinning them off with air. I don't think the impact driver has a ratchet so the nuts would have to be cracked by hand first. On the subject of impact guns have you considered something like this: http://www.dewalt.co.uk/powertools/productdetails/catno/DW292/ With a generator, I use a Honda eu20i, it's the way to go if you have many wheels to change. Not cordless but worth considering. In the shop you can have a job done while you're waiting for the compressor to build up pressure. Nick Brearley From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Mar 6 10:33:52 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:33:52 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers In-Reply-To: References: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> Message-ID: <2400a5d40903060933k7a12583cy65cf3bf3bd348f8f@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Mark Andy wrote: > I don't know what you're doing, but for me with car work, I tend to find the > the air ratchets of fairly marginal value even when I have air handy. If I > didn't have it handy, I'd certainly just use a regular ratchet. > There are all sorts of jobs where an air ratchet is the bee's knees. Things like engine oil pans, where you have 2000 nuts or bolts to take off, and they're all three inches long. Nothing that can't be done with a regular ratchet or wrench, of course, but saves lots of time over the course of the day. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mark at sccaprepared.com Fri Mar 6 12:44:32 2009 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:44:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers In-Reply-To: <49B15858.50709@landform.co.uk> References: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> <49B15858.50709@landform.co.uk> Message-ID: Howdy, On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, nick brearley wrote: > I'm a fully paid up member of the battery impact gun fan club. But the > job I have in mind is changing blades on a rotary cultivator type > machine which has pairs of blades fixed on to flanges three inches > apart. The limited clearance rules out an impact gun. With two nuts per > blade that's 96 nuts per change, a job that an air ratchet is ideal for. > The only thing is you need the ratchet facility to crack the nuts > manually before spinning them off with air. I don't think the impact > driver has a ratchet so the nuts would have to be cracked by hand first. Ah, yeah, with that many to do I'd want the battery ratchet too I think. :-) > > On the subject of impact guns have you considered something like this: > http://www.dewalt.co.uk/powertools/productdetails/catno/DW292/ > > With a generator, I use a Honda eu20i, it's the way to go if you have > many wheels to change. Not cordless but worth considering. In the shop > you can have a job done while you're waiting for the compressor to build > up pressure. I have an electric impact as well. For around the shop, air is easy (I close off a valve and the compressor doesn't lose appreciable amounts of air between garage sessions), so it doesn't get used. At the track, the battery impact is easier and does most everything I need it to do. But the electric impact is in the trailer for when something goes wrong with the battery impact. :-) Mark From jibjib at att.net Fri Mar 6 18:16:21 2009 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 17:16:21 -0800 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40903060933k7a12583cy65cf3bf3bd348f8f@mail.gmail.com> References: <49B0EE9C.8000204@landform.co.uk> <2400a5d40903060933k7a12583cy65cf3bf3bd348f8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The problem here is that some of us are thinking "Air Ratchet" and some are thinking "Impact Wrench" My Impact Wrench does 450 ft-lbs, whereas my Air Ratchet only 65 ft-lbs. They are both big enough. Well, an impact Wrench is never really big enough. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Scheidt Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:34 AM To: Mark Andy Cc: Shop Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Cordless angle impact drivers On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Mark Andy wrote: > I don't know what you're doing, but for me with car work, I tend to > find the the air ratchets of fairly marginal value even when I have > air handy. If I didn't have it handy, I'd certainly just use a regular ratchet. > There are all sorts of jobs where an air ratchet is the bee's knees. Things like engine oil pans, where you have 2000 nuts or bolts to take off, and they're all three inches long. Nothing that can't be done with a regular ratchet or wrench, of course, but saves lots of time over the course of the day. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From nogera2 at att.net Mon Mar 9 20:50:25 2009 From: nogera2 at att.net (nogera2 at att.net) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 22:50:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welding Aluminum Message-ID: <8D77DA9BAA49403A91C2846E1A8685C1@CARROOM> I've had a MIG welder for many years and have gotten pretty good welding sheet metal with it. ( The greatest improvement came a couple of years ago when I replaced my Harbor Freight unit with a Hobart 140) Anyway, my current project car is Aluminum and I have several cracks and patches that need to be welded. Is it worth buying a Argon tank so I can weld the cracks my self or is there a whole new learning curve when welding aluminum with a MIG? Bob Nogueira From arvidj at visi.com Tue Mar 10 06:26:55 2009 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:26:55 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welding Aluminum References: <8D77DA9BAA49403A91C2846E1A8685C1@CARROOM> Message-ID: Just a few of the "hardware" items related to aluminum and MIG. Obviously the argon. The wire feed will probably need to be changed to either a push-pull gun, a spool gun or different drive rollers and a [usually] teflon liner and tips to accomodate the aluminum wire in your existing gun. A push-pull gun is really expensive. A spool gun could very well be the correct option if you can find one that will plug into your welder. Converting your existing gun, cable liner and drive over so it will feed aluminum will still have constraints related to what type and size of wire you can feed, how far you can feed it - i.e. cable length, and how straight you can get the cable. This all assumes that the right stuff is actually availabe for you setup. You might want to google "horbart 140 aluminum" and get some opinions. As an example, http://www.epinions.com/review/Hobart_140_MIG_Welder/content_242088185476 "Welding aluminum with this machine, as with every MIG except a spool gun in this power range, is a tedious process. On thinner material, you need to be very fast and very smooth. On thicker material, it can be really good IF you have good karma, think happy thoughts and have everything right - see below. If you're buying it primarily to weld aluminum though - this is not the appropriate class of machine for you. Depending on what you want to do, look for a 220 machine with intelligent speed control, or a TIG, or even a henrob torch or Al "brazing" rods. No matter how good you are, it is a pain and you'll end up with at least a few bird's nests per project with this machine." There were a number of tips on how to minimize the pain on that link. Arvid ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 10:50 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welding Aluminum > I've had a MIG welder for many years and have gotten pretty good welding > sheet metal with it. > ( The greatest improvement came a couple of years ago when I replaced my > Harbor Freight unit with a Hobart 140) > Anyway, my current project car is Aluminum and I have several cracks and > patches that need to be welded. Is it worth buying a Argon tank so I can > weld the cracks my self or is there a whole new learning curve when > welding > aluminum with a MIG? > > Bob Nogueira From scott.hall at comcast.net Wed Mar 11 09:32:27 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:32:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] water softeners redux In-Reply-To: <8D77DA9BAA49403A91C2846E1A8685C1@CARROOM> Message-ID: <323961960.2698651236789147761.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> so the thread on water softeners a while back got me thinking. we have not just exceptionally hard water (limestone), but also a ton of other 'stuff' in the water. I'd like to get everything out of the water, but we're on a septic system and I'm not sure it would like having a super-saturated brine solution pumped into it periodically, and I don't think I want to just pump it out onto the lawn or anywhere else. we have a separate septic system for the washing machine, but I don't know if that's a good idea either. as well, I'm not sure how great of an idea it is to ingest that much sodium. I'm willing to plumb a line to the kitchen sinks that by-passes the softener so we're not drinking or cooking with that water, but the ice-maker I'd just like to have filtered, non-sodium-saturated water. just plain h2o, if at all possible. so...do you guys have thoughts on whole-house filtering systems? or are my concerns about softeners unfounded? are filters a pain in the butt? can I pump the brine into a septic system? do you have well water and a septic system and a softener, and if so, how's that working out? I could use a softener for the bathrooms and dish- and clothes-washers, and a filter for the kitchen sink and fridge/icemaker, but if there's a better way... we need to get all the 'stuff' out of the water (I'm tired of scrubbing shower doors and un-clogging the dishwasher, and I'm sincerely starting to suspect the septic system is too close to the well, and, ew...), but after googling and talking with different people, I'd like the opinions of people that aren't trying to sell me something. thanks in advance. scott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Mar 11 11:15:06 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:15:06 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] water softeners redux In-Reply-To: <323961960.2698651236789147761.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <8D77DA9BAA49403A91C2846E1A8685C1@CARROOM> <323961960.2698651236789147761.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1d9e01c9a275$4ed4ebe0$275636cc@jdnet.deere.com> > but we're on a septic system and I'm not sure it would like having a > super-saturated brine solution pumped into it periodically, I don't have any hard data, except that we lived in a house with well water, an ion exchange softener and a septic tank for a few years, and it never seemed to cause a problem. If the system is working properly, the discharged solution is nowhere near "super-saturated brine" but a more dilute solution of mostly calcium and magnesium chloride, and it's a small enough quantity that it will get diluted a lot more by the water already in the septic tank. > as well, I'm not sure how great of an idea it is to ingest that much > sodium. I'm dubious about the whole "low sodium" thing, unless you have a particular medical condition where your body has a hard time regulating sodium. Sodium is essential for human life, you will literally die (unpleasantly) without enough sodium intake. But if it's a concern for you, it is possible to run ion-exchange softeners on potassium instead of sodium. > I'm willing to plumb a line to the kitchen sinks that by-passes > the softener so we're not drinking or cooking with that water, but the > ice-maker I'd just like to have filtered, non-sodium-saturated water. > just plain h2o, if at all possible. Unless you use a LOT of ice, there won't be enough sodium in it to matter. Each grain of hardness only takes about 8mg of sodium, so if you start with 15 grains per gallon (which is VERY hard water), you'll only wind up with about 15 mg of sodium per pound of ice (assuming all the sodium winds up in the ice; some ice makers make better ice than others by flushing contaminants down the drain). Since 1000 mg/day is considered a "low sodium" diet, 15 mg/pound just doesn't seem like enough to worry about. Hmm, I wonder how much sodium a home RO filter will remove? I know RO systems can be used to purify sea water for drinking, but I don't know if "home" quality membranes are that good (or if they worry about a few ppm of sodium left in the sea water). Could you safely run softened well water through a UV sanitizer and then a common home RO filter? If so, that might be a nearly ideal solution. We use a RO filter to supply our cooking and drinking water (via a second faucet at the kitchen sink) as well as the ice maker; but it's mostly because it tastes better than city water. Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 12:26:15 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:26:15 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] water softeners redux In-Reply-To: <1d9e01c9a275$4ed4ebe0$275636cc@jdnet.deere.com> References: <8D77DA9BAA49403A91C2846E1A8685C1@CARROOM> <323961960.2698651236789147761.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <1d9e01c9a275$4ed4ebe0$275636cc@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40903111226r265e1b81s4e2270a2767487a0@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Randall wrote: > > I'm dubious about the whole "low sodium" thing, unless you have a particular > medical condition where your body has a hard time regulating sodium. ?Sodium > is essential for human life, you will literally die (unpleasantly) without > enough sodium intake. > Very few americans are in any danger of having too little sodium. nearly all of them could use less. > But if it's a concern for you, it is possible to run ion-exchange softeners > on potassium instead of sodium. > >> ? I'm willing to plumb a line to the kitchen sinks that by-passes >> the softener so we're not drinking or cooking with that water, but the >> ice-maker I'd just like to have filtered, non-sodium-saturated water. >> just plain h2o, if at all possible. > > Unless you use a LOT of ice, there won't be enough sodium in it to matter. > Each grain of hardness only takes about 8mg of sodium, so if you start with > 15 grains per gallon (which is VERY hard water), you'll only wind up with > about 15 mg of sodium per pound of ice (assuming all the sodium winds up in > the ice; some ice makers make better ice than others by flushing > contaminants down the drain). ?Since 1000 mg/day is considered a "low > sodium" diet, 15 mg/pound just doesn't seem like enough to worry about. > You've got a unit confusion problem. Each grain of hardness per gallon requires 8mg of sodium per litre of water softened. (Yes, I know that's insane way of measuring things. but that's what they do.) And 15 grains is nothing. Typical around my area (Northern Indiana) is 30 to 50. 15 grains per gallon means you'll end up with 50 mg/lb or so. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From halfnights at shaw.ca Wed Mar 11 14:10:15 2009 From: halfnights at shaw.ca (Art Halfnights) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:10:15 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shiny restored carbuetors??? Message-ID: <001b01c9a28d$c6650f10$9a304546@home> Hello Does anyone have the answer for making carbs look like new. I have some old style turco zinc coat and turco ABC flakes ??? But never been brave enought to try mixing these up. Any help appreciated Art Halfnights -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Mar 11 14:14:44 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:14:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shiny restored carbuetors??? In-Reply-To: <001b01c9a28d$c6650f10$9a304546@home> References: <001b01c9a28d$c6650f10$9a304546@home> Message-ID: <49B829C4.1050601@xxiii.com> Art Halfnights wrote: > Hello Does anyone have the answer for making carbs look like new. I Throw them in the trash and install F.I.? :) http://megasquirt.org -Wayne From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Mar 11 16:26:22 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:26:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] water softeners redux In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40903111226r265e1b81s4e2270a2767487a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <8D77DA9BAA49403A91C2846E1A8685C1@CARROOM><323961960.2698651236789147761.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><1d9e01c9a275$4ed4ebe0$275636cc@jdnet.deere.com> <2400a5d40903111226r265e1b81s4e2270a2767487a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1e4a01c9a2a0$ca937be0$275636cc@jdnet.deere.com> > Very few americans are in any danger of having too little sodium. > nearly all of them could use less. Thanks for the free medical advice. I'm sure it's worth what I paid for it. BTW, my late wife was admitted to the hospital because her blood sodium was dangerously low ... she later died (tho not directly from the low sodium). > 15 grains per gallon means you'll end up with 50 mg/lb or so. Which is still only 5% of a "low sodium" diet, if you do happen to consume a pound of ice every day. And use an icemaker that leaves the salt in the ice. Randall From pat at hornesystemstx.com Wed Mar 11 19:36:12 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:36:12 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] water softeners redux In-Reply-To: <323961960.2698651236789147761.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <323961960.2698651236789147761.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <49B8751C.8080200@hornesystemstx.com> When I installed our softener I plumbed the salt outlet of the softener into our septic system. When we converted to an aerobic system the installer said that we should not run the line into the aerobic system, so I disconnected that line and ran it outside our fence into the pasture and just dumped it on the ground. That was 8 years ago and have not seen any problem with the area where we dump it. I halfway expected that with time we would see the grass die off, resulting in bare dirt, but that hasn't happened. I also plumbed the condensate out of the A/C into that line to get that water away from our foundation, but I doubt it has much affect on dilution of the salt solution. With the softener our dishes come out of the dishwasher without spots and the kitchen and bath fixtures stay cleaner longer than before. Peace, Pat Thusly spake scott.hall at comcast.net, On 3/11/2009 11:32 AM: > so the thread on water softeners a while back got me thinking. > > we have not just exceptionally hard water (limestone), but also a ton > of other 'stuff' in the water. I'd like to get everything out of the > water, but we're on a septic system and I'm not sure it would like > having a super-saturated brine solution pumped into it periodically, > and I don't think I want to just pump it out onto the lawn or anywhere > else. we have a separate septic system for the washing machine, but I > don't know if that's a good idea either. > > as well, I'm not sure how great of an idea it is to ingest that much > sodium. I'm willing to plumb a line to the kitchen sinks that > by-passes the softener so we're not drinking or cooking with that > water, but the ice-maker I'd just like to have filtered, > non-sodium-saturated water. just plain h2o, if at all possible. > > so...do you guys have thoughts on whole-house filtering systems? or > are my concerns about softeners unfounded? are filters a pain in the > butt? can I pump the brine into a septic system? do you have well > water and a septic system and a softener, and if so, how's that > working out? > > I could use a softener for the bathrooms and dish- and > clothes-washers, and a filter for the kitchen sink and > fridge/icemaker, but if there's a better way... > > we need to get all the 'stuff' out of the water (I'm tired of > scrubbing shower doors and un-clogging the dishwasher, and I'm > sincerely starting to suspect the septic system is too close to the > well, and, ew...), but after googling and talking with different > people, I'd like the opinions of people that aren't trying to sell me > something. > > thanks in advance. > > scott > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1995 - Release Date: 03/11/09 08:28:00 > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From jandkstone99 at msn.com Wed Mar 11 20:23:45 2009 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:23:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting Plastic/Bakelite Message-ID: I am trying to paint the Bakelite steering wheel surround on my 1966 Alpine, but not having much luck. The surround is in good shape, just weathered from 43 years in the sun. I wet sanded it with 400 grit paper and got a nice smooth surface that should have taken appropriate paint well. The first one I tried was Rust-oleum Universal. In theory, that should have been perfect, but it produced an awful, very thick, almost hammered finish. I stripped this off (using CitruStrip, which seems to work very well on the old plastic) and tried again, this time with Valspar Plastic paint. I got almost the same result (and I suspect it is almost the same paint), but not quite as bad. Back to the Citrustrip, and then one more try with the Valspar, trying to be very light with the paint. It was little better than the first two attempts, but far from acceptable. Before I try again with a third brand, can anyone recommend either a good technique for using the Universal or Valspar paint, or a paint that will produce a nice smooth durable finish on Bakelite? Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chad at linuxeg.com Wed Mar 11 21:35:43 2009 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chad on LEG) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:35:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting Plastic/Bakelite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B8911F.3000801@linuxeg.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jblair1948 at cox.net Thu Mar 12 04:35:17 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:35:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting Plastic/Bakelite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090312072804.01fc0760@cox.net> At 11:23 PM 3/11/2009, Jim Stone wrote: >I am trying to paint the Bakelite steering wheel surround on my 1966 Alpine, but >not having much luck..... >Before I try again with a third brand, can anyone recommend either a good >technique for using the Universal or Valspar paint, or a paint that will produce a >nice smooth durable finish on Bakelite? Jim, I did a google search for painting bakelite and got some 142,000 hits. The few I look at really didn't give any preferences for a paint. But it might be worth looking at several of them. Also, if you used paint stripper, I assume that you really cleaned the wheel with soap and water to get rid of the stripper. Also did you spray or brush on the paint. Brushing it will not give the nice results of spraying it. If you don't have a compressor, you can purchase a disposable spray system, that consists of a can of air and a glass paint jar with an arisol button on the top. These work quite well. For small items like a steering wheel, you can also use an airbrush if you have one. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From jandkstone99 at msn.com Thu Mar 12 18:45:23 2009 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:45:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Painting Plastic/Bakelite In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090312072804.01fc0760@cox.net> References: <6.2.5.6.1.20090312072804.01fc0760@cox.net> Message-ID: Thanks Guys. I initially did the same thing as John (Googled "Painting Bakelite") and got lots of hits, but none I wanted to follow up with. I do have a compressor, but used spray cans to date. Using a spray gun (or even a DIY aresol can) would allow me to mix it thinner, so that could be an option. Testors is a really interesting idea (thanks Chad), but I wonder how well it would weather? Models are certainly not intended for outdoor use. Still, I just emailed Testors to see what they say and will report back if it looks like a viable option. That leaves the Healey option, which I think might be the winner. It certainly sounds like the easiest choice, and I don't think it would preclude spraying later if I wasn't happy with the results. Roland, can you tell me a little more about this? I assume you use liquid shoe polish? Right? When people use India ink, how is it applied? Brush? Any other tips you can provide? Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sat Mar 14 16:38:51 2009 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:38:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] water heater anode Message-ID: <928720C3879F475B84B323539C21ADB1@B50SS> Hey shop talkers, I learned some stuff today that I thought I would pass along (probably most of you already are doing this, but in this recession, I thought it might be a way to save some money). I just pulled the magnesium anode rod from my seven-year-old residential 75 gallon water heater -- it was totally gone. I just ordered one for $44.50 from: http://shop.waterconnection.com/category.sc?categoryId=2 The owner answers the phone, a real nice guy who knows his stuff. I started looking at replacement water heater prices (around $800 for the tank and was told it could be about $1,500 installed). I bought the house three years ago and should have replaced the rod then. I have learned the following: a.. check/replace the anode rod(s) at five years b.. check every two years afterward c.. hard water and water softeners eat the rods quicker d.. if you keep a good rod in a water heater, the heater can last 20-40 years e.. put a 1/2" ball valve for the sediment drain to flush the sediment (mine had this) and flush it regularly f.. they make a curved inlet tube which helps to flush the sediment better g.. but the biggest impact is replacing the sacrificial anode before it is consumed All of the rods have a 1 1/16" hex head retaining bolt on the top of the tank, usually near the center, and they are pretty tight (I used my IR Titanium to take it out and got a face full of water :) ). My tank is in an outdoor enclosure with limited room above the tank, most of the rods are 44" long, so they make flexible replacement rods you can bend and feed into the tank. The solid rods are only $28 for the most common. They make magnesium, aluminum and zinc. Most tanks come with magnesium rods and it probably is the best replacement rod unless you have sulfur dioxide issues (smelly hot water). There is some concern about aluminum in your tap water and it also tends to create more sediment. The difference between a 6 year water heater warranty and a 12 year warranty often is nothing more than a second anode rod and a much higher purchase price. I wish I had done this three years ago... best, doug From jibjib at att.net Sat Mar 14 20:29:33 2009 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:29:33 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] water heater anode In-Reply-To: <928720C3879F475B84B323539C21ADB1@B50SS> References: <928720C3879F475B84B323539C21ADB1@B50SS> Message-ID: <5BC0774931BD4683A93CE0CAB94C7868@HPPavilion> . . . . And if your water heater was made in the mid-90's the dip tubes were made from a poor plastic and failed. There was a huge recall, but it's run it's course and isn't available any more. It's kind of funny, that all my neighbors have replaced their tanks a few years ago, but I just change out the anode periodically and it's still chugging along just fine. Good tip ODB! Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of old dirtbeard Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:39 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] water heater anode Hey shop talkers, I learned some stuff today that I thought I would pass along (probably most of you already are doing this, but in this recession, I thought it might be a way to save some money). I just pulled the magnesium anode rod from my seven-year-old residential 75 gallon water heater -- it was totally gone. I just ordered one for $44.50 from: http://shop.waterconnection.com/category.sc?categoryId=2 The owner answers the phone, a real nice guy who knows his stuff. I started looking at replacement water heater prices (around $800 for the tank and was told it could be about $1,500 installed). I bought the house three years ago and should have replaced the rod then. I have learned the following: a.. check/replace the anode rod(s) at five years b.. check every two years afterward c.. hard water and water softeners eat the rods quicker d.. if you keep a good rod in a water heater, the heater can last 20-40 years e.. put a 1/2" ball valve for the sediment drain to flush the sediment (mine had this) and flush it regularly f.. they make a curved inlet tube which helps to flush the sediment better g.. but the biggest impact is replacing the sacrificial anode before it is consumed All of the rods have a 1 1/16" hex head retaining bolt on the top of the tank, usually near the center, and they are pretty tight (I used my IR Titanium to take it out and got a face full of water :) ). My tank is in an outdoor enclosure with limited room above the tank, most of the rods are 44" long, so they make flexible replacement rods you can bend and feed into the tank. The solid rods are only $28 for the most common. They make magnesium, aluminum and zinc. Most tanks come with magnesium rods and it probably is the best replacement rod unless you have sulfur dioxide issues (smelly hot water). There is some concern about aluminum in your tap water and it also tends to create more sediment. The difference between a 6 year water heater warranty and a 12 year warranty often is nothing more than a second anode rod and a much higher purchase price. I wish I had done this three years ago... best, doug You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 08:16:07 2009 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:16:07 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input Message-ID: I purchased a new flat screen TV with an integral speaker "bar" that hangs off the TV, which hangs off the wall - no external speakers or speaker wire to hang or get in the way. The TV has all the inputs I need for the DVD player, digital camera, USB, gaming console, etc. It also has a Subwoofer out. So basically everything goes into the TV, and comes out of the TV... so my old Receiver doesn't have anything to do, except that it does FM Radio, which the TV can't do. So I have a powered speaker signal from the Receiver that can't go anywhere. My options are to get a switch-box to use the speaker bar for the radio when I want, or somehow convert the speaker wire signal coming from the receiver to an RCA signal I can send to the TV using one of the available RCA inputs. I supposed another option would be to buy another receiver that converts the FM Radio signal to RCA for me, but it would have to be small and cheap to be an option. Has anyone had this problem? -PJ From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Mar 15 09:21:14 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:21:14 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090315162114.QSLA28507.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall> > or somehow convert the speaker wire > signal coming from the receiver to an RCA signal I can send > to the TV using one of the available RCA inputs. I've not had that exact problem, Pat, but I've done similar things in the past and it's worked out well. It turns out that "line level" inputs take about the same voltage as speakers do, just much higher impedance. Unless precise fidelity is a concern (and FM radio isn't what I would call a high fidelity source), you can just connect the speaker outputs to the line-in RCA jacks directly (electrically speaking) and adjust the volume and tone controls on your receiver for good sound. How to effect the connection depends somewhat on what your receiver speaker connections look like. If they are designed to accept bare wires, then I would suggest just picking up some RCA cables at the local electronics store (or Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) and cutting one end to expose the wires. You may need to do some experimentation to figure out which terminals on the receiver are ground (which need to go to the shield in the RCA cable), but usually they are marked in some way (black or "-", etc.). HTH Randall From brabel at comcast.net Sun Mar 15 10:39:54 2009 From: brabel at comcast.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 10:39:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E9A3009-D6E3-4A20-9744-481294DD43A4@comcast.net> PJ - Why not simply connect the tape-output jacks to one of the RCA inputs to the TV. If you're concerned about the amplifiers not being hooked up to anything, leave the volume control turned down and remove the speaker fuses (if any). - Bill Rabel Anacortes, WA > I purchased a new flat screen TV with an integral speaker "bar" that > hangs off > the TV, which hangs off the wall - no external speakers or speaker > wire to > hang or get in the way. > > The TV has all the inputs I need for the DVD player, digital camera, > USB, > gaming console, etc. It also has a Subwoofer out. So basically > everything > goes into the TV, and comes out of the TV... so my old Receiver > doesn't have > anything to do, except that it does FM Radio, which the TV can't > do. So I > have a powered speaker signal from the Receiver that can't go > anywhere. > > My options are to get a switch-box to use the speaker bar for the > radio when I > want, or somehow convert the speaker wire signal coming from the > receiver to > an RCA signal I can send to the TV using one of the available RCA > inputs. I > supposed another option would be to buy another receiver that > converts the FM > Radio signal to RCA for me, but it would have to be small and cheap > to be an > option. From watsonm05 at comcast.net Sun Mar 15 10:57:27 2009 From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:57:27 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input Message-ID: Hi all, Recently Randall said: "How to effect the connection depends somewhat on what your receiver speaker connections look like. If they are designed to accept bare wires, then I would suggest just picking up some RCA cables at the local electronics store (or Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) and cutting one end to expose the wires." Since I live near Richmond, VA I just wanted to point out that Circuit City is no more. It used to be headquartered here in Richmond and I know some folks who suffered job losses because of it. It declared bankrupcy last year and tried to court a buyer but to no success. Mark Watson From chad at linuxeg.com Sun Mar 15 16:35:00 2009 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chad on LEG) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:35:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BD90A4.8050006@linuxeg.com> I seem to recall line levels are a few hundred millivolts while speakers are tens of volts so you'll need to pad it down. I think radio shack sells cables for that purpose. chad From chad at linuxeg.com Sun Mar 15 17:17:10 2009 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chad on LEG) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:17:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: <49BD90A4.8050006@linuxeg.com> References: <49BD90A4.8050006@linuxeg.com> Message-ID: <49BD9A86.3060909@linuxeg.com> Continued: look at Radio Shack part number 42-2461. Also, you might need a ground loop isolator (sometimes called a hum bucking coil) RS #270-054 I'm thinking you're going from a balanced output to an unbalanced input so could cause problems. hope this is of value - everyone says "hope this helps" - just adding a little variety. chad Chad on LEG wrote: > I seem to recall line levels are a few hundred millivolts while > speakers are tens of volts so you'll need to pad it down. > I think radio shack sells cables for that purpose. > chad > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as chad at linuxeg.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Mar 15 17:26:17 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:26:17 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090316002617.BJGR12344.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall> > Since I live near Richmond, VA I just wanted to point out > that Circuit City is no more. Good point, Mark. I was just trying to describe the class of store, as to me a "electronics store" is someplace I can buy a transistor instead of a radio. They are unfortunately disappearing as well. ITC and Best Electronics (two of them in my area) closed years ago, and I doubt that either Torrance Electronics or Signal Electronics (the two remaining) will survive the current economic woes. Randall From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Sun Mar 15 18:20:46 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:20:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does your radio have any pre-amp outputs for a tape recorder of something like that? Some systems used to have pre-amp out and pre-amp in jacks jumpiered togeather in the back. Be careful how you hook your radio up to your new TV, you do not want to damage our TV or your radio. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:16:07 -0400 > Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input > > I purchased a new flat screen TV with an integral speaker "bar" that hangs off > the TV, which hangs off the wall - no external speakers or speaker wire to > hang or get in the way. > > The TV has all the inputs I need for the DVD player, digital camera, USB, > gaming console, etc. It also has a Subwoofer out. So basically everything > goes into the TV, and comes out of the TV... so my old Receiver doesn't have > anything to do, except that it does FM Radio, which the TV can't do. So I > have a powered speaker signal from the Receiver that can't go anywhere. > > My options are to get a switch-box to use the speaker bar for the radio when I > want, or somehow convert the speaker wire signal coming from the receiver to > an RCA signal I can send to the TV using one of the available RCA inputs. I > supposed another option would be to buy another receiver that converts the FM > Radio signal to RCA for me, but it would have to be small and cheap to be an > option. > > Has anyone had this problem? > > -PJ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Mon Mar 16 05:59:32 2009 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:59:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Exactly, I want to be very careful about not overloading the TV's inputs with something already powered by an amp, especially if it the volume gets turned up accidentally or something. I think I'll go with the headphone jack idea, since it will be cheap and easy. That way I can also use that same jack to plug in my iphone to play music, etc. But now my other thought is that I'll need to have the TV on just to play the radio... it's an Energy Star rated TV so it's probably not using that much power, but it may be a compromise I have to live with. Thanks all PJ > From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:20:46 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input > > Does your radio have any pre-amp outputs for a tape recorder of something like > that? > > Some systems used to have pre-amp out and pre-amp in jacks jumpiered togeather > in the back. > > > > Be careful how you hook your radio up to your new TV, you do not want to > damage our TV or your radio. > > Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA > > '63 TR3B TCF587L > > That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > > See it moves! > > > > > > From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com > > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:16:07 -0400 > > Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input > > > > I purchased a new flat screen TV with an integral speaker "bar" that hangs > off > > the TV, which hangs off the wall - no external speakers or speaker wire to > > hang or get in the way. > > > > The TV has all the inputs I need for the DVD player, digital camera, USB, > > gaming console, etc. It also has a Subwoofer out. So basically everything > > goes into the TV, and comes out of the TV... so my old Receiver doesn't > have > > anything to do, except that it does FM Radio, which the TV can't do. So I > > have a powered speaker signal from the Receiver that can't go anywhere. > > > > My options are to get a switch-box to use the speaker bar for the radio when > I > > want, or somehow convert the speaker wire signal coming from the receiver > to > > an RCA signal I can send to the TV using one of the available RCA inputs. I > > supposed another option would be to buy another receiver that converts the > FM > > Radio signal to RCA for me, but it would have to be small and cheap to be > an > > option. > > > > Has anyone had this problem? > > > > -PJ From jniolon at bham.rr.com Mon Mar 16 15:37:30 2009 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:37:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] building a mag drill Message-ID: there are times when you need a mag drill and nothing else will do... but the 300-2000 dollar price tag is difficult to pay when you need it twice a year... wonder what would be involved in building on ??? fabricating an electromagnet ??? substituting something that will BE an electromagnet ??? attaching a drill is just fabrication mostly but the base has me stumped... any ideas thanks John "One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering) From racertod at racertodd.com Mon Mar 16 17:56:46 2009 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:56:46 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] building a mag drill In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090316174930.00bb4318@mail.blarg.net> John wrote: >there are times when you need a mag drill and nothing else will do... but >the 300-2000 dollar price tag is difficult to pay when you need it twice a >year... wonder what would be involved in building on ??? fabricating an >electromagnet ??? substituting something that will BE an electromagnet ??? >attaching a drill is just fabrication mostly but the base has me stumped... These companies make electromagnets in various sizes. Shouldn't be too hard to find one that has the holding capacity you need and fab up a way to attach a drill. Note the power requirements, you'll need a DC power source for most of them. http://www.magnetechcorp.com/ http://www.apwcompany.com/emagnet.html http://www.aecmagnetics.com/ www.eBay.com - search for electromagnet, there's a bunch... Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 268,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 198,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From cavanadd at verizon.net Mon Mar 16 19:12:22 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:12:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] building a mag drill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49BF0706.70007@verizon.net> A Cole Drill > http://www.rustyiron.com/engines/coledrill/index.html would probably work, but good luck finding one. If you do, let me know; I'll buy it from you when you're finished with it. I have been looking for one for years. Dave C john niolon wrote: > there are times when you need a mag drill and nothing else will do... but > the 300-2000 dollar price tag is difficult to pay when you need it twice a > year... wonder what would be involved in building on ??? fabricating an > electromagnet ??? substituting something that will BE an electromagnet ??? > attaching a drill is just fabrication mostly but the base has me stumped... > > any ideas > > thanks > John > > > > "One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much > government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From watsonm05 at comcast.net Tue Mar 17 17:59:39 2009 From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:59:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] building a mag drill References: <49BF0706.70007@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4644A938D1E4420CAC4A3365E5FBDE85@watsongxpejt9r> Well guys maybe you could try to buy this one that's on ebay: 180337298000 - no bids and a starting bid of $49.99. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David C." To: "john niolon" Cc: "shop-talk" Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] building a mag drill >A Cole Drill > http://www.rustyiron.com/engines/coledrill/index.html > would probably work, but good luck finding one. If you do, let me know; > I'll buy it from you when you're finished with it. I have been looking > for one for years. > > Dave C > > john niolon wrote: >> there are times when you need a mag drill and nothing else will do... but >> the 300-2000 dollar price tag is difficult to pay when you need it twice >> a >> year... wonder what would be involved in building on ??? fabricating an >> electromagnet ??? substituting something that will BE an electromagnet >> ??? >> attaching a drill is just fabrication mostly but the base has me >> stumped... >> >> any ideas >> >> thanks >> John >> >> >> >> "One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as >> much >> government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering) >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net >> >> Shop-talk mailing list >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk >> >> http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as watsonm05 at comcast.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From pat at hornesystemstx.com Tue Mar 17 18:17:18 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:17:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airless paint sprayer belly up Message-ID: <49C04B9E.3040803@hornesystemstx.com> Yesterday I had just completed the first of two finish coats of latex paint on a house when the spray pressure dropped to almost nothing. The more I tried to get it back up, the lower it got until it didn't pump at all. This is an old SprayTech/Wagoner diaphragm type pump unit. I set it aside and rented another spray rig to finish the second coat on the house. Today I started taking the pump apart to see what the problem was. When I pulled the diaphragm out I found paint on the hydraulic side of the diaphragm. Rats! a torn diaphragm! oh, well, that shouldn't be too bad to replace. I then opened up the hydraulic side of things only to find that it was about half paint and half hydraulic oil! What a mess! The oil had emulsified with the paint so that the whole thing was full of off-white goo. Water wouldn't cut the oil, so after I tried lacquer thinner with minimal success, I tried some Gunk AquaSeal. It worked great! It cut through the oily stuff fine and caused the paint to separate out without a problem. Now all I need to do is put it back together with a new diaphragm and seals and it will be ready for another 10 years! Just thought someone out there might need to find a way to get rid on paint and oil a the same time. Peace, Pat -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From cavanadd at verizon.net Tue Mar 17 22:18:44 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:18:44 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] building a mag drill In-Reply-To: <4644A938D1E4420CAC4A3365E5FBDE85@watsongxpejt9r> References: <49BF0706.70007@verizon.net> <4644A938D1E4420CAC4A3365E5FBDE85@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: <49C08434.9040505@verizon.net> Thanks; I hadn't seen that one (been staying away from ebay for a while); I'll keep an eye on it and if it's still at a reasonable price on Sunday maybe place a bid. Dave Mark Watson wrote: > Well guys maybe you could try to buy this one that's on ebay: > 180337298000 - no bids and a starting bid of $49.99. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David C." > To: "john niolon" > Cc: "shop-talk" > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] building a mag drill > > >> A Cole Drill > http://www.rustyiron.com/engines/coledrill/index.html >> would probably work, but good luck finding one. If you do, let me >> know; I'll buy it from you when you're finished with it. I have been >> looking for one for years. >> >> Dave C >> >> john niolon wrote: >>> there are times when you need a mag drill and nothing else will do... >>> but >>> the 300-2000 dollar price tag is difficult to pay when you need it >>> twice a >>> year... wonder what would be involved in building on ??? fabricating an >>> electromagnet ??? substituting something that will BE an >>> electromagnet ??? >>> attaching a drill is just fabrication mostly but the base has me >>> stumped... >>> >>> any ideas >>> >>> thanks >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> "One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as >>> much >>> government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net >>> >>> Shop-talk mailing list >>> >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk >>> >>> http://www.team.net/archive >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as watsonm05 at comcast.net >> >> Shop-talk mailing list >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk >> >> http://www.team.net/archive From eabb at loc.gov Wed Mar 18 07:01:46 2009 From: eabb at loc.gov (Eugene D Abbondelo) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:01:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? Message-ID: <49C0C68A020000740006274F@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Shoppers: I have a basic helicoil set for automotive use that I bought years ago, and finally used for the first time this past weekend. The job went well, but I remembered that a while back on this list there were recommendations for other types of thread repair kits besides helicoil that were considered better. I didn't save the information, but wish I did. Can anyone help with recommendations? I would be looking for a good quality kit for both metric and SAE thread repair. Thanks, Gene From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Wed Mar 18 08:39:12 2009 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:39:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? In-Reply-To: <49C0C68A020000740006274F@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <8B5E2FC20AF44B888D6CCE200D071BE0@DADSTOY> I hope somebody replies to this.....I'd like to know too..... -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Eugene D Abbondelo Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:02 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? Shoppers: I have a basic helicoil set for automotive use that I bought years ago, and finally used for the first time this past weekend. The job went well, but I remembered that a while back on this list there were recommendations for other types of thread repair kits besides helicoil that were considered better. I didn't save the information, but wish I did. Can anyone help with recommendations? I would be looking for a good quality kit for both metric and SAE thread repair. Thanks, Gene You are subscribed as gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Mar 18 08:44:12 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:44:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? In-Reply-To: <8B5E2FC20AF44B888D6CCE200D071BE0@DADSTOY> References: <8B5E2FC20AF44B888D6CCE200D071BE0@DADSTOY> Message-ID: <49C116CC.4000406@xxiii.com> If there was a previous discussion on shop-talk, you can search the archives. I think Mark has kept everything out there... Use the link at the bottom of each message. -Wayne Gerald Brazil wrote: > I hope somebody replies to this.....I'd like to know too..... > > -----Original Message----- > .... remembered that a while back on this list there were recommendations for > other types of thread repair kits besides helicoil that were considered > better. I didn't save the information, but wish I did. Can anyone help From gsteve at hammatt.com Wed Mar 18 08:59:03 2009 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:59:03 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? In-Reply-To: <8B5E2FC20AF44B888D6CCE200D071BE0@DADSTOY> References: <8B5E2FC20AF44B888D6CCE200D071BE0@DADSTOY> Message-ID: <89489821B65B49398559E2619C97BF76@DesktopPC> I've also examined this issue and recently purchased a thread locking solid insert. It's the only way I could solve my problem within the dimensional limitations that existed. Here some more information about alternatives: http://www.mcmaster.com/#thread-repair-kits/=121ydh I haven't used it yet, but hopefully will get to this repair on our 1914 Overland oil pump sometime next week. Good Luck Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Brazil" To: "'Eugene D Abbondelo'" ; Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? >I hope somebody replies to this.....I'd like to know too..... > > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Eugene D > Abbondelo > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:02 AM > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? > > > Shoppers: > > I have a basic helicoil set for automotive use that I bought years > ago, and > finally used for the first time this past weekend. The job went > well, but I > remembered that a while back on this list there were recommendations > for > other types of thread repair kits besides helicoil that were > considered > better. I didn't save the information, but wish I did. Can anyone > help > with recommendations? I would be looking for a good quality kit for > both > metric and SAE thread repair. > > Thanks, > > Gene snip From bspidell at comcast.net Wed Mar 18 09:03:29 2009 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:03:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? In-Reply-To: <89489821B65B49398559E2619C97BF76@DesktopPC> Message-ID: <1790759073.2971381237392209786.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Here's one that has piqued my interest: http://www.timesert.com/ Note I have no experience with these, have just kept them in mind in case I needed them. Bob From obaa996 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 09:41:10 2009 From: obaa996 at yahoo.com (Obaa) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? Message-ID: <906910.92513.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I've used timeserts in lieu of helicoils before. They are a solid, threaded insert, rather than a coil of wire (helicoil). The timeserts were used to repair a pulled headstud in a magnesium engine case (old Porsche engine), and were the recommended method over a helicoil. My (very limited) understanding of the timeserts is that somehow the threading of the inserts help prevent the timesert from backing out (which a helicoil might do). Also, they are a solid insert, and less likely to break than a helicoil, which is essentially a coiled wire. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Mar 18 14:28:11 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:28:11 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? In-Reply-To: <49C0C68A020000740006274F@ntgwgate.loc.gov> References: <49C0C68A020000740006274F@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <0c5301c9a810$71265350$275636cc@jdnet.deere.com> > I > remembered that a while back on this list there were recommendations for > other > types of thread repair kits besides helicoil that were considered better. > I > didn't save the information, but wish I did. Can anyone help with > recommendations? I would be looking for a good quality kit for both > metric > and SAE thread repair. Gene, Opinions vary, but based on a long-ago conversation with a professional mechanical engineer I believe a properly installed helical insert (Helicoil) is just as strong as the solid types. He had a complicated explanation of how the helical inserts deform under load to spread the load more evenly throughout the threads, rather than concentrating forces near the surface; which I don't recall entirely. But he believed they were actually stronger than the solid inserts. No doubt there are exceptions to that rule, and I should have asked about them, but I didn't. The solid inserts do have some advantages, though. They don't require special tools for installation, and they can be installed into oversize holes. Some of them come with a more positive locking mechanism as well. I keep them in mind as a backup position if I ever have a Helicoil pull out. In almost 40 years of turning wrenches, the only Helicoil failure I have ever seen was one that came out with a spark plug. We used Loctite and anti-seize (obviously not at the same time) when replacing it with another Helicoil, and never had any more trouble with that cylinder head. Randall From battmain at yahoo.com Wed Mar 18 16:56:01 2009 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? In-Reply-To: <1790759073.2971381237392209786.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1790759073.2971381237392209786.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <302382.49270.qm@web57004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Had to chuckle at the "New Product Notificition" That isn't even close to a typo! I thought everything had spell checker these days. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Bob Spidell To: Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA Cc: Shop Talk Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:03:29 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] What's better than helicoil? Here's one that has piqued my interest: http://www.timesert.com/ Note I have no experience with these, have just kept them in mind in case I needed them. (snip) From peterwmurray at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 08:46:45 2009 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:46:45 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: PJ- Why not just buy the exceptional Sony XDR-F1HD for under $90 and enjoy one of the best analog/digital FM tuners ever made? It has RCA outputs, remote control and an incredible front end. Then you could repurpose your receiver with an inexpensive pair of bookshelf speakers somewhere else. Depending on the amplifier design in your receiver, you may find it consumes a lot more power than you think when on - from zero to 40% volume, my Technics receiver (from 1993) consumes almost 65W. The tuner above consumes no more than 11W when on (and maybe 2 when off, but it has a nice clock display). Here is an (appropriate for this group) highly technical review of the XDR-F1HD: http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/xdr-f1hd.htm -Peter On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 8:59 AM, PJ McGarvey wrote: > Exactly, I want to be very careful about not overloading the TV's inputs with > something already powered by an amp, especially if it the volume gets turned > up accidentally or something. > > > > I think I'll go with the headphone jack idea, since it will be cheap and easy. > That way I can also use that same jack to plug in my iphone to play music, > etc. > > > > But now my other thought is that I'll need to have the TV on just to play the > radio... it's an Energy Star rated TV so it's probably not using that much > power, but it may be a compromise I have to live with. > > > > Thanks all > > > > PJ > >> From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com >> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net >> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:20:46 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input >> >> Does your radio have any pre-amp outputs for a tape recorder of something > like >> that? >> >> Some systems used to have pre-amp out and pre-amp in jacks jumpiered > togeather >> in the back. >> >> >> >> Be careful how you hook your radio up to your new TV, you do not want to >> damage our TV or your radio. >> >> Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA >> >> '63 TR3B TCF587L >> >> That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! >> >> See it moves! >> >> >> >> >> > From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com >> > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net >> > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:16:07 -0400 >> > Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input >> > >> > I purchased a new flat screen TV with an integral speaker "bar" that > hangs >> off >> > the TV, which hangs off the wall - no external speakers or speaker wire > to >> > hang or get in the way. >> > >> > The TV has all the inputs I need for the DVD player, digital camera, USB, >> > gaming console, etc. It also has a Subwoofer out. So basically everything >> > goes into the TV, and comes out of the TV... so my old Receiver doesn't >> have >> > anything to do, except that it does FM Radio, which the TV can't do. So I >> > have a powered speaker signal from the Receiver that can't go anywhere. >> > >> > My options are to get a switch-box to use the speaker bar for the radio > when >> I >> > want, or somehow convert the speaker wire signal coming from the receiver >> to >> > an RCA signal I can send to the TV using one of the available RCA inputs. > I >> > supposed another option would be to buy another receiver that converts > the >> FM >> > Radio signal to RCA for me, but it would have to be small and cheap to be >> an >> > option. >> > >> > Has anyone had this problem? >> > >> > -PJ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as peterwmurray at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From pethier at comcast.net Thu Mar 19 10:16:53 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:16:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: <1318043256.9345471237482457603.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <303036115.9349201237483013242.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Does Sony currently use this XDR-F1HD unit (or one this good) as a front end in table radio? The review said they thought that is was used in the XDR-S3HD, but that unit is apparently no nonger produced. I have a Bose unit with CD changer at home and the front end on it is way better than the receiver system I was using. I was thinking of getting the radio-only version for the office to replace the boombox I have here that has real problems pulling FM stations in this building. (Don't bother suggesting streaming on my computer: My employer has it blocked.) If Sony has a radio with real front-end performance for substantially less than the Bose, I'd take a chance on it. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier From peterwmurray at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 10:54:14 2009 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:54:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Speaker signal out to RCA input In-Reply-To: <303036115.9349201237483013242.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1318043256.9345471237482457603.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <303036115.9349201237483013242.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: I don't know if Sony is using the RF chipset in any other equipment. I can't think why they wouldn't use the electronics from the tuner in the table radio (unless they are so compartmentalized that the tuner group doesn't share with the table radio group). I have seen the XDR-S3HD, and it is a decent performer. If all you want to be able to do is listen to the radio, one certainly could add a pair of computer speakers (which can plug directly into the second of the two line outputs in the back - one an 1/8" jack, the other a conventional pair of RCA jacks). Radio Shack currently has a 2.1 system on sale for... $19? I think that is what I saw at the RS here in Tysons Corner at lunch today. Oh, and the XDR-S3HD is available from Amazon (w/free Super Saver shipping) for a hair more than $85. 2-day shipping if you have Amazon Prime... I can't wait until I get the antenna array up on the chimney (no tower yet in my yard). I'm half expecting to be able to pick up everything for about 100+ miles, though I'm no Girard Westerberg (http://www.dxfm.com). -Peter -- Peter Murray (N3IXY) Oak Hill, VA On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 1:16 PM, wrote: > Does Sony currently use this XDR-F1HD unit (or one this good) as a front end in table radio? The review said they thought that is was used in the XDR-S3HD, but that unit is apparently no nonger produced. > > I have a Bose unit with CD changer at home and the front end on it is way better than the receiver system I was using. I was thinking of getting the radio-only version for the office to replace the boombox I have here that has real problems pulling FM stations in this building. (Don't bother suggesting streaming on my computer: My employer has it blocked.) If Sony has a radio with real front-end performance for substantially less than the Bose, I'd take a chance on it. > > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 > 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net > http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier From kvacek at ameritech.net Fri Mar 20 05:25:54 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:25:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Engien paint recommendations Message-ID: Any strong recommendations for high-quality engine paint ? For regular colors I usually use Dupli-Color spray cans nowadays (and it's been great), but I need MG engine maroon, so I guess I have to order a can and spray it myself. I was thinking of either Bill Hirsh or Eastwood engine paint, unless there's another recommendation or a warning about either of those brands. FWIW - this will be an in-place paint job over other well-adhered engine paint, just to freshen it up after I replace core plugs. Thanks ! Karl From kvacek at ameritech.net Fri Mar 20 05:32:26 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 07:32:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Engine paint recommendations References: Message-ID: <40B26AB195E34BCE9968F7A4410BFE53@KARL> Well, Eastwood's out already - turns out they only have a few standard colors. > Any strong recommendations for high-quality engine paint ? For regular > colors > I usually use Dupli-Color spray cans nowadays (and it's been great), but I > need MG engine maroon, so I guess I have to order a can and spray it > myself. > > I was thinking of either Bill Hirsh or Eastwood engine paint, unless > there's > another recommendation or a warning about either of those brands. > > FWIW - this will be an in-place paint job over other well-adhered engine > paint, just to freshen it up after I replace core plugs. > > Thanks ! > Karl From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Mar 20 09:50:53 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Engien paint recommendations Message-ID: <109938.8741.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I used Hirsh Ford Green and Dupli-Color black, both in spray, and I was happy with both. Do NOT use primer on cast iron parts! And do not use the Dupli-Color primer on anything!. I used the primer on a bead-blasted oil pan, and I found that it was softer than the paint, and allow the paint to chip off easily. I ended up re-blasting the pan to remove all my new paint, and redoing it without the primer. The paint worked just fine without the primer. Doug --- On Fri, 3/20/09, Karl Vacek wrote: > From: Karl Vacek > Subject: [Shop-talk] Engien paint recommendations > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 8:25 AM > Any strong recommendations for > high-quality engine paint ? For regular colors > I usually use Dupli-Color spray cans nowadays (and it's > been great), but I > need MG engine maroon, so I guess I have to order a can and > spray it myself. > > I was thinking of either Bill Hirsh or Eastwood engine > paint, unless there's > another recommendation or a warning about either of those > brands. > > FWIW - this will be an in-place paint job over other > well-adhered engine > paint, just to freshen it up after I replace core plugs. > > Thanks ! > Karl > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as doug at dougbraun.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From nases at verizon.net Sun Mar 22 09:22:00 2009 From: nases at verizon.net (Phil Nase) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:22:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires Message-ID: I need 4 tires for my Tacoma. I have BF Goodrich on it now and they wore like steel but are lousy in the wet. If the roads are damp my rears just spin unless I'm in 4wd. I know some of this is inherent with a P/U but am interested in anything you may suggest. I don't need a heavy lugged tire, I don't go off road with it. Any suggestions for a good pickup truck tire. I do plan to to a trailer with a Sprite on it some day. Phil Nase Quakertown, PA http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ From bsayling at mindspring.com Sun Mar 22 09:39:56 2009 From: bsayling at mindspring.com (Bruce S. Ayling) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:39:56 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C669DC.9040807@mindspring.com> Consumer reports gave top marks to the Pirelli Scorpions. I recently put a set on my '97 F-250 Diesel (2WD) and have been extremely happy. They're rated all terrain and have a moderately aggressive tread, but are quiet and have excellent on road traction wet or dry. They are reported to have high rolling resistance which will effect economy, but I haven't run mileage since I put them on. Depending on size they come with various load ratings (mine are good for the 8500+ gvw of my 250). I have towed a great deal with them - no issue. I have less than 10k on mine, but as of now would recommend them without reservation. Bruce Ayling Blythewood, SC Phil Nase wrote: > I need 4 tires for my Tacoma. I have BF Goodrich on it now and they > wore like steel but are lousy in the wet. If the roads are damp my > rears just spin unless I'm in 4wd. I know some of this is inherent > with a P/U but am interested in anything you may suggest. > > I don't need a heavy lugged tire, I don't go off road with it. > > Any suggestions for a good pickup truck tire. I do plan to to a > trailer with a Sprite on it some day. > > Phil Nase > Quakertown, PA > http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as bsayling at mindspring.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From doug at dougbraun.com Sun Mar 22 12:06:51 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed Message-ID: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I was planning to get a set of teensy wire-gauge drill bits from these people: http://www.gyrostools.com/index.html I noticed that they sell both carbon steel and high-speed steel versions, and the price difference is quite small. Is there any reason to choose carbon over high-speed if the price is the same? Do carbon steel drill bits have any possible advantage other than sometimes being cheaper? Thanks, Doug From cavanadd at verizon.net Sun Mar 22 12:20:22 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 12:20:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed In-Reply-To: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49C68F76.8040506@verizon.net> The only possible advantage I can think of is if a CS drill or tap breaks in a hole you can sometimes shatter it with a punch and take the pieces out. If it's HSS, it won't shatter and you may be out of luck. Doug Braun wrote: > Hello, > > I was planning to get a set of teensy wire-gauge drill bits from these people: http://www.gyrostools.com/index.html > > I noticed that they sell both carbon steel and high-speed steel versions, and the price difference is quite small. > > Is there any reason to choose carbon over high-speed if the price is the same? Do carbon steel drill bits have any possible advantage other than sometimes being cheaper? > > Thanks, > Doug > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sun Mar 22 12:49:17 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:49:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C6963D.40100@xxiii.com> Phil Nase wrote: > I need 4 tires for my Tacoma. I have BF Goodrich on it now and they > wore like steel but are lousy in the wet. If the roads are damp my I'm a big fan of the Tire Rack www.TireRack.com Their customer surveys are usually very informative; esp the "would buy this tire again" score. -Wayne From t.w.jones1 at gmail.com Sun Mar 22 12:57:08 2009 From: t.w.jones1 at gmail.com (Tom Jones) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:57:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: <49C6963D.40100@xxiii.com> References: <49C6963D.40100@xxiii.com> Message-ID: Michelin LTX M&S. Not the cheapest, but ride quality and wet traction are superb. I put them on my '06 Silverado Z71 Crew Cab. On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Wayne wrote: > Phil Nase wrote: > >> I need 4 tires for my Tacoma. I have BF Goodrich on it now and they wore >> like steel but are lousy in the wet. If the roads are damp my >> > > I'm a big fan of the Tire Rack www.TireRack.com Their customer surveys are usually very informative; esp the "would buy > this tire again" score. > > -Wayne > > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as t.w.jones1 at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From shiples at comcast.net Sun Mar 22 13:48:15 2009 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 13:48:15 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: <49C6963D.40100@xxiii.com> References: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20090322133532.03286d68@mail.comcast.net> >I'm a big fan of the Tire Rack www.TireRack.com Their customer surveys >are usually very informative; esp the "would buy this tire again" score. I just bought a set of tires for my street car from TireRack. Standard UPS ground shipping from Sparks, Nevada to Seattle took 2 days. A compact disc ordered from Amazon shipping from Sparks takes more like 5 days. You can have your tires shipped to a recommended installer (with customer ratings) so you can get 'em on your car with ease. A great way to shop for tires. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Mar 22 14:19:59 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 14:19:59 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090322211958.KBMR6142.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@randall> > I have BF Goodrich on it now > and they wore like steel but are lousy in the wet. I'd guess it depends more on the individual tire than the maker. I've got BFG tires on my hauler (which happens to be a big station wagon rather than a pickup) and they do pretty good in the wet and snow. Much better than the Michelins my Dad had on his very similar wagon years ago. Sorry I can't help with a recommendation Phil, I just feel that brand is the wrong thing to focus on. Most tire makers make such a wide range of tires that it's unfair to lump them all together. I've had really good luck with Bridgestone tires as well, but they belong to Firestone who made the most famously defective tires in the entire 20th century! Randall From peterwmurray at gmail.com Sun Mar 22 15:03:47 2009 From: peterwmurray at gmail.com (Peter Murray) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:03:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage In-Reply-To: <244105.21424.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20090301220821.YXEF12934.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@randall> <244105.21424.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doug (Shook)- Were your fluorescent tubes of the older T12 variety, or of the smaller T8 type? I have read (not measured) that the T8 tubes are more efficient than the T12. It almost sounds like you had a single 40W tube in a T12 fixture, and dual 32W tubes in a T8 fixture. I installed a dual T8 fixture (with 32W tubes) in the laundry about a year ago, and have been very happy with it (and, with the proper color temperature, the quality of the light output). My parents have a TED at their house, and it is fascinating to watch it over the course of the day/night. Their house (just west of Harrisburg, PA) is an all-electric which went onto a special metering system in 1993 with on/off peak rates. The TED has enabled them to quickly note what devices make a real difference in their power demands and which ones, to their surprise, don't. I think I'll put a TED system in when I get the internal electric mains circuits upgraded this summer in the house (I have a full, no-single-main-breaker panel with a 50A "main" breaker on one hot leg and a 60A "main" breaker on the other - but 200A service). -Peter -- Peter Murray (N3IXY) Oak Hill, VA On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > That's a nice unit, then. I have a fairly cheesy power meter > from Lacrosse, similar in style to the Kill-a-Watt, and it > clearly does not consider power factor, just current as measured > across a shunt resistor. > > More recently I got a TED 1000 (www.theenergydetective.com). It has clamp-on sensors for both main feed conductors and measures true RMS. It also has a PC interface for logging, etc. I'm pretty happy with it, but it is not meant to measure power usage of individual appliances like a Kill-a-Watt. > > Doug From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Mar 23 05:32:12 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage Message-ID: <941122.38634.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I recently got my TED unit upgraded with the USB computer interface. Here is a Web page that shows graphs of the power consumption it reports: http://dougbert.is-a-geek.com:8080/cacti/graph_view.php?action=tree&tree_id=1&leaf_id=21 Doug (Braun) --- On Sun, 3/22/09, Peter Murray wrote: > From: Peter Murray > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage > To: dirtbeard at pacbell.net > Cc: "Shop-Talk List" > Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 6:03 PM > > My parents have a TED at their house, and it is fascinating > to watch > it over the course of the day/night. Their house (just west > of > Harrisburg, PA) is an all-electric which went onto a > special metering > system in 1993 with on/off peak rates. The TED has enabled > them to > quickly note what devices make a real difference in their > power > demands and which ones, to their surprise, don't. > > I think I'll put a TED system in when I get the internal > electric > mains circuits upgraded this summer in the house (I have a > full, > no-single-main-breaker panel with a 50A "main" breaker on > one hot leg > and a 60A "main" breaker on the other - but 200A service). > > -Peter > > -- > Peter Murray (N3IXY) > Oak Hill, VA From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 06:40:03 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:40:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed In-Reply-To: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40903230640g6ece2130p9057378e82e05f54@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > Hello, > > I was planning to get a set of teensy wire-gauge drill bits from these people: http://www.gyrostools.com/index.html > > I noticed that they sell both carbon steel and high-speed steel versions, and the price difference is quite small. > > Is there any reason to choose carbon over high-speed if the price is the same? B Do carbon steel drill bits have any possible advantage other than sometimes being cheaper? Carbon steel is a bit easier to sharpen. Doesn't matter to me: I use a powered diamond wheel to sharpen bits. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Mon Mar 23 07:21:11 2009 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:21:11 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage In-Reply-To: <941122.38634.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <941122.38634.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doug, Did you get their software also or is catci doing all the work for you? Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:32:12 -0700 > From: doug at dougbraun.com > To: peterwmurray at gmail.com > CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage > > I recently got my TED unit upgraded with the USB computer interface. Here is a Web page that shows graphs of the power consumption it reports: > > http://dougbert.is-a-geek.com:8080/cacti/graph_view.php?action=tree&tree_id=1 &leaf_id=21 > > > Doug (Braun) > > > > --- On Sun, 3/22/09, Peter Murray wrote: > > > From: Peter Murray > > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage > > To: dirtbeard at pacbell.net > > Cc: "Shop-Talk List" > > Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 6:03 PM > > > > My parents have a TED at their house, and it is fascinating > > to watch > > it over the course of the day/night. Their house (just west > > of > > Harrisburg, PA) is an all-electric which went onto a > > special metering > > system in 1993 with on/off peak rates. The TED has enabled > > them to > > quickly note what devices make a real difference in their > > power > > demands and which ones, to their surprise, don't. > > > > I think I'll put a TED system in when I get the internal > > electric > > mains circuits upgraded this summer in the house (I have a > > full, > > no-single-main-breaker panel with a 50A "main" breaker on > > one hot leg > > and a 60A "main" breaker on the other - but 200A service). > > > > -Peter > > > > -- > > Peter Murray (N3IXY) > > Oak Hill, VA > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From eabb at loc.gov Mon Mar 23 07:49:33 2009 From: eabb at loc.gov (Eugene D Abbondelo) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:49:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40903230640g6ece2130p9057378e82e05f54@mail.gmail.com> References: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2400a5d40903230640g6ece2130p9057378e82e05f54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C7693D020000740006308D@ntgwgate.loc.gov> This post reminded me to ask: Concerning drill sharpening--I have a Drill Doctor brand drill sharpener and I have never been able to get it to sharpen decently. Anyone else had this problem? Is there a better brand out there? Gene >>> David Scheidt 3/23/2009 9:40 AM >>> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Doug Braun wrote: > Hello, > Is there any reason to choose carbon over high-speed if the price is the same? B Do carbon steel drill bits have any possible advantage other than sometimes being cheaper? Carbon steel is a bit easier to sharpen. Doesn't matter to me: I use a powered diamond wheel to sharpen bits. From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Mar 23 07:55:54 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage Message-ID: <817841.57722.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The TED is connected to a Linux box, so I never even took their software out of the envelope. Besides Cacti, there are some Perl and shell scripts to collect data from the unit. If any TED owner is interested, I can send them a copy. Doug --- On Mon, 3/23/09, Rich White wrote: > From: Rich White > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage > To: "shop-talk List" > Date: Monday, March 23, 2009, 10:21 AM > Doug, > > > > Did you get their software also or is catci doing all the > work for you? > > Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA > > '63 TR3B TCF587L > > That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! > > See it moves! > > > > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:32:12 -0700 > > From: doug at dougbraun.com > > To: peterwmurray at gmail.com > > CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net > > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage > > > > I recently got my TED unit upgraded with the USB > computer interface. Here is > a Web page that shows graphs of the power consumption it > reports: > > > > > http://dougbert.is-a-geek.com:8080/cacti/graph_view.php?action=tree&tree_id=1 > &leaf_id=21 > > > > > > Doug (Braun) > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 3/22/09, Peter Murray > wrote: > > > > > From: Peter Murray > > > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent > wattage > > > To: dirtbeard at pacbell.net > > > Cc: "Shop-Talk List" > > > Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 6:03 PM > > > > > > My parents have a TED at their house, and it is > fascinating > > > to watch > > > it over the course of the day/night. Their house > (just west > > > of > > > Harrisburg, PA) is an all-electric which went > onto a > > > special metering > > > system in 1993 with on/off peak rates. The TED > has enabled > > > them to > > > quickly note what devices make a real difference > in their > > > power > > > demands and which ones, to their surprise, > don't. > > > > > > I think I'll put a TED system in when I get the > internal > > > electric > > > mains circuits upgraded this summer in the house > (I have a > > > full, > > > no-single-main-breaker panel with a 50A "main" > breaker on > > > one hot leg > > > and a 60A "main" breaker on the other - but 200A > service). > > > > > > -Peter > > > > > > -- > > > Peter Murray (N3IXY) > > > Oak Hill, VA > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > You are subscribed as rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com > > > > Shop-talk mailing list > > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as doug at dougbraun.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From arvidj at visi.com Mon Mar 23 08:21:25 2009 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:21:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed References: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><2400a5d40903230640g6ece2130p9057378e82e05f54@mail.gmail.com> <49C7693D020000740006308D@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <968C617E72FD4090B982CEFB01D6F13C@behavioral.com> I have the older style 750 and love it. Putting the bit into the holder correctly appeared to be the part that I was not doing correctly when I first got my Drill Doctor - the bits were coming out duller than they went in. I have come up with this incantation and have been very happy: I put the bit in the holder so it is "almost snug" and then put the bit\holder into the "aligner" [I hope all these technical terms are not a problem ;-}]. This allows the two spring fingers to align the drill bit flutes in the holder correctly. If I leave the bit loose in the holder and look into the top of the "aligner" it becomes obvious what the finger springs are trying to do to the bit. I may give the bit a little twist to help the finger springs do their job. I can also insure that the tip of the bit is all the way in and against the stop. Once I have determine that the bit, the stop and the springs are happy I tighten the bit in the holder. Then just put the bit\holder into the "sharpener" and sharpen away. I am not positive the "be sure to make an even number of cuts" is critical but (a) it made sense to me so (b) I've always done it and (c) have had great success. I do not use the split point feature that much and will suggest that 25% of the time that I have use it I am not sure I am getting the results that I though I should, but other than that I am really happy device. Arvid p.s. As a side note, the environment is "a 115 piece standard HHS drill bit set from Northern Tool and a 115 piece metric HHS set from Enco" - both of which seemed to have come with the pre-dulled option enabled. But with the Drill Doctor I have been very please with both sets. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene D Abbondelo" To: "Doug Braun" ; "David Scheidt" Cc: "Shop-Talk List" Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed > This post reminded me to ask: > > Concerning drill sharpening--I have a Drill Doctor brand drill sharpener > and I > have never been able to get it to sharpen decently. Anyone else had this > problem? Is there a better brand out there? > > Gene > >>>> David Scheidt 3/23/2009 9:40 AM >>> > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Doug Braun wrote: >> Hello, > >> Is there any reason to choose carbon over high-speed if the price is the > same? B Do carbon steel drill bits have any possible advantage other than > sometimes being cheaper? > > Carbon steel is a bit easier to sharpen. Doesn't matter to me: I use > a powered diamond wheel to sharpen bits. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as arvidj at visi.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 08:34:31 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:34:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed In-Reply-To: <49C7693D020000740006308D@ntgwgate.loc.gov> References: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2400a5d40903230640g6ece2130p9057378e82e05f54@mail.gmail.com> <49C7693D020000740006308D@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <2400a5d40903230834q3995ca9cu3467e0a8edbaf254@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Eugene D Abbondelo wrote: > This post reminded me to ask: > > Concerning drill sharpening--I have a Drill Doctor brand drill sharpener and I have never been able to get it to sharpen decently. B Anyone else had this problem? B Is there a better brand out there? > As Arvid suggests, I suspect you're not getting the bit in correctly. I've got the lowest end one (so low-end, they no longer make it), and it works fine. It took me some fiddling to figure out how the bits went in; neither the video nor instruction manual made sense to me. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM Mon Mar 23 09:20:04 2009 From: Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM (Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:20:04 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed Message-ID: <20090323092004.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.038ecc283c.wbe@email.secureserver.net> From Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM Mon Mar 23 09:20:24 2009 From: Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM (Pat at HORNESYSTEMSTX.COM) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:20:24 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: carbon steel vs high-speed Message-ID: <20090323092024.997a8624c2b4dae4e01298000bf07581.0b180e8677.wbe@email.secureserver.net> /afK5UZ: Permission denied From strovato at optonline.net Mon Mar 23 09:37:10 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:37:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Drill bits: now drill doctor In-Reply-To: <968C617E72FD4090B982CEFB01D6F13C@behavioral.com> References: <608188.35223.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2400a5d40903230640g6ece2130p9057378e82e05f54@mail.gmail.com> <49C7693D020000740006308D@ntgwgate.loc.gov> <968C617E72FD4090B982CEFB01D6F13C@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <0KGY00F9XWTWBK50@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Has anyone figured out a way to sharpen quick change bits using the drill doctor? I'm talking about the hex shank type bits, like this: http://www.drillspot.com/products/57684/Cle-Line_C20514_Hex_Shank_Drill_Bit Thanks. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Mar 23 12:36:35 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:36:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <1503785073.288631237836586451.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1083028410.292321237836995459.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> we have a well. the exposed above-ground pvc tubing froze and broke during the last snap. apparently, the pressure reducing valve froze and split as well and it now spraying pretty good. the question is: do I need to replace it? the well cistern tank already has a pressure valve in it, and the pressure in the house is too low for my liking anyway. anybody have a well, and do you have a prv between the tank and the house? thanks. scott From strovato at optonline.net Mon Mar 23 12:49:18 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:49:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve References: <1503785073.288631237836586451.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <0KGZ004ED5QADTJ0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I have a well. There is a check valve between the well and pressure tank. This is a tank with air above a bladder or diaphragm that compresses as the tank fills with water. Is this what you mean by a cistern tank? Anyway, I have a check valve before that tank that prevents flow back into the well. Then after the tank there is a pressure relief valve that will allow water to escape if the pressure goes over a safe threshold. None of this does any pressure reducing in routine operation. A control switch turns the pump on when the tank has 40 pounds of pressure, and off when the tank has 60 pounds of pressure. Perhaps you have a different type of system? -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 03:36 PM 3/23/2009, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: >we have a well. the exposed above-ground pvc tubing froze and broke >during the last snap. apparently, the pressure reducing valve froze >and split as well and it now spraying pretty good. > >the question is: do I need to replace it? the well cistern tank >already has a pressure valve in it, and the pressure in the house is >too low for my liking anyway. > >anybody have a well, and do you have a prv between the tank and the house? From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Mar 23 13:10:39 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:10:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <0KGZ004ED5QADTJ0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <1503785073.288631237836586451.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <0KGZ004ED5QADTJ0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <49C7ECBF.5020108@xxiii.com> Steven Trovato wrote: > I have a well. There is a check valve between the well and pressure > tank. This is a tank with air above a bladder or diaphragm that > compresses as the tank fills with water. Is this what you mean by a I have a well, same setup Steve describes. It's 180ft deep w. submersible pump hanging at the end of the pipe. I've studied a fair amount about well systems, as I've had my share of problems, and I have no idea what sort of valve you're referring to. Trying to be helpful, despite how that may sound... where is the valve located? Electrical connections or passive? Pictures? -Wayne From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Mar 23 13:12:43 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:12:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <0KGZ004ED5QADTJ0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <1261829634.314651237839163514.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> nope steve, that's exactly what I have and that's the tank I mean when I say cistern. I'm just not sure I need a prv between the tank and the house, because, like you said, the tank maintains between 40 and 70 (I think on mine) lbs. of pressure. I'm trying to remember, and I don't think I had one on the old house, which had a well, too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Trovato" To: "scott hall" , "Shop Talk List" Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:49:18 PM (GMT-0400) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve I have a well. There is a check valve between the well and pressure tank. This is a tank with air above a bladder or diaphragm that compresses as the tank fills with water. Is this what you mean by a cistern tank? Anyway, I have a check valve before that tank that prevents flow back into the well. Then after the tank there is a pressure relief valve that will allow water to escape if the pressure goes over a safe threshold. None of this does any pressure reducing in routine operation. A control switch turns the pump on when the tank has 40 pounds of pressure, and off when the tank has 60 pounds of pressure. Perhaps you have a different type of system? From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Mar 23 13:19:09 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:19:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <49C7ECBF.5020108@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <1618488721.318881237839549598.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> it's downstream of the tank, between the tank and the house input. it's a pressure reducing valve. I have a picture and I can post it to a sharing site, I guess, but it just looks like the bell-shaped jobby you see on the combo meter/prv on a municipal water system. googling them lists that they're mandated on municipal systems (with higher main pressures, no doubt). my tank pressure shouldn't ever get higher than 70 p.s.i. I suspect the original installer was just going belt-and-suspenders. the one I just bought says it's for air and water systems. I don't remember one on the old house (also with a well), and I was wondering if I needed to replace it at all, or can I just plumb a straight line where it was and let the tank pressure just go into the house. or in this case do I just know enough to be dangerous and I should replace it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne" To: "Shop Talk List" Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 4:10:39 PM (GMT-0400) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve I have a well, same setup Steve describes. It's 180ft deep w. submersible pump hanging at the end of the pipe. I've studied a fair amount about well systems, as I've had my share of problems, and I have no idea what sort of valve you're referring to. Trying to be helpful, despite how that may sound... where is the valve located? Electrical connections or passive? Pictures? From strovato at optonline.net Mon Mar 23 13:31:29 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:31:29 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve References: <0KGZ004ED5QADTJ0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0KGZ008827OIZKI0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I can't say that you don't need this, because I'm not an expert and perhaps there's some sort of special situation I don't know about. But I can say that I don't have any such thing on mine. I haven't seen one on other systems I have looked at. I recently replaced my tank, and there was no mention of this in the instructions for recommended ways to configure the system. Usual control switches maintain 30 to 50 pounds, or 40 to 60 like mine. Perhaps if yours was going to 70 someone added this in a misguided attempt to limit the pressure, rather than adjusting or replacing the switch like they should have done. Just a guess though. What you should have, though, is a safety pressure relief valve, and I would think that would have to be located before your pressure regulator to properly protect the system. -Steve At 04:12 PM 3/23/2009, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: >nope steve, that's exactly what I have and that's the tank I mean >when I say cistern. I'm just not sure I need a prv between the tank >and the house, because, like you said, the tank maintains between 40 >and 70 (I think on mine) lbs. of pressure. From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Mar 23 13:41:14 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:41:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <0KGZ008827OIZKI0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <856948506.332171237840874603.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> now I'm not sure if I have a safety pressure-relief valve. what's that look like? I think I'll just plumb in a length of pipe to replace the pcv. if the fixtures explode, we'll know why. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Trovato" To: "scott hall" , "Shop Talk List" Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 4:31:29 PM (GMT-0400) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve I can't say that you don't need this, because I'm not an expert and perhaps there's some sort of special situation I don't know about. But I can say that I don't have any such thing on mine. I haven't seen one on other systems I have looked at. I recently replaced my tank, and there was no mention of this in the instructions for recommended ways to configure the system. Usual control switches maintain 30 to 50 pounds, or 40 to 60 like mine. Perhaps if yours was going to 70 someone added this in a misguided attempt to limit the pressure, rather than adjusting or replacing the switch like they should have done. Just a guess though. What you should have, though, is a safety pressure relief valve, and I would think that would have to be located before your pressure regulator to properly protect the system. From strovato at optonline.net Mon Mar 23 14:33:50 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:33:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve References: <0KGZ008827OIZKI0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0KGZ006ZMAKJ4IS0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> It looks like this: http://www.watts.com/pro/_productsFull.asp?catId=64&parCat=293&pid=798&ref=2 Mine is 75 psi. In my application it is installed rotated 90 degrees left compared to that picture. The arrow points down. -Steve At 04:41 PM 3/23/2009, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: >now I'm not sure if I have a safety pressure-relief valve. what's >that look like? From rwil at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 23 15:28:58 2009 From: rwil at sbcglobal.net (Roland Wilhelmy) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:28:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <1261829634.314651237839163514.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <0KGZ004ED5QADTJ0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <1261829634.314651237839163514.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <0q2gs4prnda2o98p0cnahm8lahm53ml6rb@4ax.com> My guess is that scott's system had a pump control that was cranked up to 70 psi shut-off pressure or maybe even higher in an effort to store more water/pressure per pump cycle. Then the pressure reducer was to send water to the house at more or less standard pressure (perhaps 40psi?). Scott's pressure reducer should be adjustable to give him higher house pressure, although he can get full pressure by leaving it out of the line. The only drawback that I can see (based on our second home's pressure tank and booster pump from an 8000 gallon storage tank on the hil) is that his house pressure will vary without the prv valve between whatever the limits are set on his pump. When I take a shower I can tell the difference between 40 and 60 psi, but it's not a big deal. Our pressure tank as a relief valve built into it. No other relief valve 'downstream'. Maybe Scott's tank has one, too. -Roland On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:12:43 +0000 (UTC), you wrote: ::nope steve, that's exactly what I have and that's the tank I mean when I say cistern. I'm just not sure I need a prv between the tank and the house, because, like you said, the tank maintains between 40 and 70 (I think on mine) lbs. of pressure. :: ::I'm trying to remember, and I don't think I had one on the old house, which had a well, too. :: ::----- Original Message ----- ::From: "Steven Trovato" ::To: "scott hall" , "Shop Talk List" ::Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 3:49:18 PM (GMT-0400) Auto-Detected ::Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve :: ::I have a well. There is a check valve between the well and pressure ::tank. This is a tank with air above a bladder or diaphragm that ::compresses as the tank fills with water. Is this what you mean by a ::cistern tank? Anyway, I have a check valve before that tank that ::prevents flow back into the well. Then after the tank there is a ::pressure relief valve that will allow water to escape if the pressure ::goes over a safe threshold. None of this does any pressure reducing ::in routine operation. A control switch turns the pump on when the ::tank has 40 pounds of pressure, and off when the tank has 60 pounds ::of pressure. Perhaps you have a different type of system? From nases at verizon.net Mon Mar 23 16:01:22 2009 From: nases at verizon.net (Phil Nase) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:01:22 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89184956-D344-4C30-AAD1-62FA7B56F801@verizon.net> Thanks for the tire information everyone. Phil Nase Quakertown, PA http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ On Mar 22, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Phil Nase wrote: > I need 4 tires for my Tacoma. I have BF Goodrich on it now and they > wore like steel but are lousy in the wet. If the roads are damp my > rears just spin unless I'm in 4wd. I know some of this is inherent > with a P/U but am interested in anything you may suggest. > > I don't need a heavy lugged tire, I don't go off road with it. > > Any suggestions for a good pickup truck tire. I do plan to to a > trailer with a Sprite on it some day. > > Phil Nase > Quakertown, PA > http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as nases at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From pat at hornesystemstx.com Mon Mar 23 16:02:02 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:02:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <0KGZ006ZMAKJ4IS0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0KGZ008827OIZKI0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0KGZ006ZMAKJ4IS0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <49C814EA.7010306@hornesystemstx.com> Usually this type of valve is connected to a water supply on the inlet, and the outlet is open to the atmosphere to allow the valve to limit the maximum pressure in the line. Is it possible that there is a check valve on the outlet of the pressure tank? If there is, and the outlet of the valve is open, it may be there to keep the pressure down on the line when/if the water heater malfunctions and overheats the water, causing an increase of pressure in the plumbing. This assumes that the outlet of the valve is open. If it is in line with the water supply as I read in the initial post, then it may just look like a pressure relief valve and be a pressure reducer or check valve instead. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Steven Trovato, On 3/23/2009 4:33 PM: > It looks like this: > > http://www.watts.com/pro/_productsFull.asp?catId=64&parCat=293&pid=798&ref=2 > > > Mine is 75 psi. In my application it is installed rotated 90 degrees > left compared to that picture. The arrow points down. > > -Steve > > At 04:41 PM 3/23/2009, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: >> now I'm not sure if I have a safety pressure-relief valve. what's >> that look like? > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.24/2018 - Release Date: 03/23/09 06:52:00 > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From eltonclark at gmail.com Mon Mar 23 16:04:30 2009 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:04:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: <89184956-D344-4C30-AAD1-62FA7B56F801@verizon.net> References: <89184956-D344-4C30-AAD1-62FA7B56F801@verizon.net> Message-ID: *No! Wait! What'd you decide?* On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Phil Nase wrote: > Thanks for the tire information everyone. > > Phil Nase > Quakertown, PA > http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ > > > > On Mar 22, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Phil Nase wrote: > > I need 4 tires for my Tacoma. I have BF Goodrich on it now and they wore >> like steel but are lousy in the wet. If the roads are damp my rears just >> spin unless I'm in 4wd. I know some of this is inherent with a P/U but am >> interested in anything you may suggest. >> >> I don't need a heavy lugged tire, I don't go off road with it. >> >> Any suggestions for a good pickup truck tire. I do plan to to a trailer >> with a Sprite on it some day. >> >> Phil Nase >> Quakertown, PA >> http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as nases at verizon.net >> >> Shop-talk mailing list >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk >> >> http://www.team.net/archive >> > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as eltonclark at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From nases at verizon.net Mon Mar 23 16:07:38 2009 From: nases at verizon.net (Phil Nase) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:07:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: References: <89184956-D344-4C30-AAD1-62FA7B56F801@verizon.net> Message-ID: <00F1586C-5E7B-43FE-9175-89C0E0D9243E@verizon.net> I'm still looking. I'll let you know. Phil Nase Quakertown, PA http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ On Mar 23, 2009, at 7:04 PM, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > No! Wait! What'd you decide? > > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Phil Nase wrote: > Thanks for the tire information everyone. > > > Phil Nase > Quakertown, PA > http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ > > > > On Mar 22, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Phil Nase wrote: > > I need 4 tires for my Tacoma. I have BF Goodrich on it now and they > wore like steel but are lousy in the wet. If the roads are damp my > rears just spin unless I'm in 4wd. I know some of this is inherent > with a P/U but am interested in anything you may suggest. > > I don't need a heavy lugged tire, I don't go off road with it. > > Any suggestions for a good pickup truck tire. I do plan to to a > trailer with a Sprite on it some day. > > Phil Nase > Quakertown, PA > http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa/ > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as nases at verizon.net > > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as eltonclark at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From obaa996 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 23 16:27:13 2009 From: obaa996 at yahoo.com (Obaa) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires Message-ID: <125998.8505.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FWIW: If you have a Costco nearby, they are currently offering $70 off a set (4) of tires, and their service is generally very good. I plan on picking up a set of BFG A/T's for my truck from them. From jandkstone99 at msn.com Mon Mar 23 17:27:40 2009 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:27:40 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: <20090322211958.KBMR6142.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@randall> References: <20090322211958.KBMR6142.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@randall> Message-ID: > From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 14:19:59 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Truck tires > I've had really good luck with > Bridgestone tires as well, but they belong to Firestone who made the most > famously defective tires in the entire 20th century! > > Randall > _______________________________________________ For what its worth, I had a '99 Mountaineer with the infamous Firestone Wilderness AT tires on it. I thought they rode and wore great and I was much happier with them then the Michelin tires that replaced them after the recall! _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail. is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 From strovato at optonline.net Mon Mar 23 17:46:04 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:46:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <49C814EA.7010306@hornesystemstx.com> References: <0KGZ008827OIZKI0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <0KGZ006ZMAKJ4IS0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <49C814EA.7010306@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <0KGZ00I30JGWZ221@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I'm not sure if you're directing this to me or Scott, who was the original poster. In my system, the tank is connected to a brass "T" manifold. It has four threaded "ports". They are used for a boiler drain valve, the pressure switch, a pressure gauge and the relief valve pictured in the link below. The input side of the "T" has the check valve. This keeps water from going back down the well, though I have heard arguments for why this isn't necessary. The output side of the "T" goes to supply all the water to the house. The "center" branch of the "T" goes to the tank. The "other side" of the pressure relief valve is not connected to anything. If the system pressure exceeds 75 psi, water will be released onto the basement floor. It sounds like the item Scott is describing is not really a valve, but a pressure regulator, in-line with the water supply. These are not uncommon in houses with municipal water when the street pressure is too high. Still don't understand why you'd want/need one with a well, though. -Steve At 07:02 PM 3/23/2009, Pat Horne wrote: >Usually this type of valve is connected to a water supply on the >inlet, and the outlet is open to the atmosphere to allow the valve >to limit the maximum pressure in the line. Is it possible that there >is a check valve on the outlet of the pressure tank? If there is, >and the outlet of the valve is open, it may be there to keep the >pressure down on the line when/if the water heater malfunctions and >overheats the water, causing an increase of pressure in the >plumbing. This assumes that the outlet of the valve is open. If it >is in line with the water supply as I read in the initial post, then >it may just look like a pressure relief valve and be a pressure >reducer or check valve instead. > >Peace, >Pat > >Thusly spake Steven Trovato, On 3/23/2009 4:33 PM: >>It looks like this: >> >>http://www.watts.com/pro/_productsFull.asp?catId=64&parCat=293&pid=798&ref=2 >> >>Mine is 75 psi. In my application it is installed rotated 90 >>degrees left compared to that picture. The arrow points down. >> >>-Steve From kvacek at ameritech.net Mon Mar 23 18:30:37 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:30:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires References: <49C6963D.40100@xxiii.com> Message-ID: Ditto on the Michelin LTX M&S. We put a set on the old Suburban over 140,000 miles ago, and two of them are still serving well. The other two were replaced under a road-hazard warrantee for one and an adjustment (thanks, Costco !!) for the other so we'd have a pair of new tires - that was 5 years and well over 50,000 miles ago. They were so good I just put a set on the 2005 Yukon XL when 2 of the Goodyears slipped belts within a week of each other. The difference in handling, traction, and ride was dramatic. Karl > Michelin LTX M&S. Not the cheapest, but ride quality and wet traction are > superb. I put them on my '06 Silverado Z71 Crew Cab. > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Wayne wrote: > >> Phil Nase wrote: >> >>> I need 4 tires for my Tacoma. I have BF Goodrich on it now and they >>> wore >>> like steel but are lousy in the wet. If the roads are damp my From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Mon Mar 23 21:05:50 2009 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:05:50 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage References: <20090301220821.YXEF12934.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@randall> <244105.21424.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <509C7D096600478389BE32EACC117F38@B50SS> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Murray" To: Cc: "Shop-Talk List" Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tube fluorescent wattage Doug (Shook)- Were your fluorescent tubes of the older T12 variety, or of the smaller T8 type? I have read (not measured) that the T8 tubes are more efficient than the T12. It almost sounds like you had a single 40W tube in a T12 fixture, and dual 32W tubes in a T8 fixture. I installed a dual T8 fixture (with 32W tubes) in the laundry about a year ago, and have been very happy with it (and, with the proper color temperature, the quality of the light output). Dear Peter, No, it is all the old T12 stuff -- some of the ballasts are less than three years old, but the old single 40w is at least 14 years old. No low watage (32w) bulbs, just old stuff in the garage. I also have a photovolaic generation system at our house. I installed 30 Kyocera KC200GT (200W) panels and a SMA SB6000U (6kW) inverter two years ago. As of two weeks ago, we had generated 19,360 kWh in 24 months. We are located near the coast in Southern California. I am very pleased with the system. The first summer we had problems with the system dropping off-line when the grid voltage momentarily dropped below 210VAC when our 5 ton HVAC unit kicked in (190 LR amps). I asked Edison to install an additional transformer on our utility pole, which they did. Since then we have had no problems. We have generated surpluses both years and could not be happier with the system. I often see 4.5-5.5 kW output during cool bright days. With some cloud edge effect, I have seen over 6kW output on the inverter. During the midday hours, we can make five homes or more "disappear" from the grid. As of today, we have generaed 500kWh surplus for the year. Because we were running 200% over baseline on Edison's tiered billing structure, we should break even on the purchase price of the system in five more years (seven years from date of install). If someone is only running at a 12 cent per kWh baseline, then it probably would take 18 years or more to break even in CA without large incentives (we also were fortunate to purchase when some very significant California incentives were in place). This is one of the best interventions I have done to our home. I would do it again in a heartbeat. best, doug From halfnights at shaw.ca Mon Mar 23 21:59:45 2009 From: halfnights at shaw.ca (Art Halfnights) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:59:45 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 73 References: Message-ID: <003501c9ac3d$59ec9830$1a454546@home> The first question is what kind of pump do you have??? Is the well shallow or deep??? All well systems have a pressure switch attached to it thus no need for a pressure regulator. Regards Art Halfnights Maple Ridge B.C. Canada From scott.hall at comcast.net Tue Mar 24 05:39:22 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:39:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve In-Reply-To: <0KGZ00I30JGWZ221@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <655403348.574311237898362526.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> yup, that's what I'm talking about. in my estimation its purpose is to regulate the pressure coming out of the tank. I called it a pressure regulation valve because that's what it said on the box of the new one I bought and what the guy at the plumbing supply store called it. I suspect its only benefit is to protect the fixtures from a super-high-pressure well tank, which I don't have, and the drawback of not having one will be slightly noticeable water pressure differences. since the new one doesn't fit in the old one's gap in the pipe, I've decided it will be easier to just plumb it with more 3/4" pipe and take the prv back to the store. I'll report if anything blows up at the house from 70 p.s.i. tank pressure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Trovato" To: pat at hornesystemstx.com Cc: "scott hall" , "Shop Talk List" Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:46:04 PM (GMT-0400) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pressure reducing valve It sounds like the item Scott is describing is not really a valve, but a pressure regulator, in-line with the water supply. These are not uncommon in houses with municipal water when the street pressure is too high. Still don't understand why you'd want/need one with a well, though. From pethier at comcast.net Tue Mar 24 10:04:51 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:04:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Truck tires In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <555318281.1049421237914291138.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> > Ditto on the Michelin LTX M&S. We put a set on the old Suburban over > 140,000 miles ago, and two of them are still serving well. !!! From mark at sccaprepared.com Tue Mar 24 13:22:01 2009 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cheap / easy ways to measure long (500' or so) distances Message-ID: Howdy, What're some cheap/easy ways to measure up to 500' or so over grassy/flat terrain? I was initially thinking a measuring wheel with a decent diameter wheel, but would welcome other options. I'm a little worried about the smaller (~6") measuring wheels not working well on grass, and the ones with bigger wheels seem to be a little more expensive. My only other idea is a long nylon tape, but that's a hassle to move around for other measurements. I need accuracy to the foot or so. Prefer it to be under $50. Ease of use is important. This is just so I can measure stuff on our lot, to model our existing buildings so that we can play "what if" games with other building heights/placements... Thanks! Mark From bspidell at comcast.net Tue Mar 24 14:08:08 2009 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:08:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cheap / easy ways to measure long (500' or so) distances In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1974617415.766871237928888384.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Surveyors use a "chain"--actually a 200' metal tape--and two people with plumb bobs. One person holds one end of the chain with a plumb bob draped over it pointing to the starting point, and the second person stretches the chain and makes a mark on the ground with his plumb bob draped over the 200' mark. Then, the pair move 200 feet and repeat the process for as many legs as required. The surveyors would use a third person on a transit or theodolite to keep the "chain gang" moving in a straight line, but someone with a decent eye would suffice. The chains are calibrated for temperature for extra accuracy, but you should be able to get within a foot or two with practice. I suspect the chains are expensive, but you might be able to rent one. Plumb bobs are cheap. bs Howdy, What're some cheap/easy ways to measure up to 500' or so over grassy/flat terrain? I was initially thinking a measuring wheel with a decent diameter wheel, but would welcome other options. I'm a little worried about the smaller (~6") measuring wheels not working well on grass, and the ones with bigger wheels seem to be a little more expensive. My only other idea is a long nylon tape, but that's a hassle to move around for other measurements. I need accuracy to the foot or so. Prefer it to be under $50. Ease of use is important. This is just so I can measure stuff on our lot, to model our existing buildings so that we can play "what if" games with other building heights/placements... Thanks! Mark From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Mar 24 14:37:35 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:37:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cheap / easy ways to measure long (500' or so) distances References: Message-ID: <052F98D4C98741DCA2DE1177A587B1AD@KARL> Horrible Freight has a large wheel unit for about $17 on sale, and I think it's $22 regularly. I have one and occasionally use it to generally locate something on property I'm inspecting, or roughly measure buildings from the street when site access is a problem. HOWEVER, it's not as accurate as you're looking for on paved surfaces with measurements in the 100-200 foot range. For longer measurements, and for any measurement on grass, you will have far more variance - I wouldn't believe anything less than +/- 5 feet over 200 feet on pavement, and wouldn't really depend on it for any measurement, particularly off very smooth pavement. I've never checked the actual diameter of the wheel vs what it measures per revolution - even if it was perfect the process itself is just not that accurate. Most surfaces have vertical discontinuities (waves and dips at least) and it's damn near impossible to track perfectly straight, so the wheel naturally tends to travel further than the straight-line distance between the points measured. Your mileage may vary, and your measurements definitely will ;-) A tape measure is cheap and far more dependable and accurate. Fiberglass ones aren't expensive and don't expand and contract significantly with temperature. Karl > Howdy, > > What're some cheap/easy ways to measure up to 500' or so over grassy/flat > terrain? > > I was initially thinking a measuring wheel with a decent diameter wheel, > but would welcome other options. I'm a little worried about the smaller > (~6") measuring wheels not working well on grass, and the ones with bigger > wheels seem to be a little more expensive. My only other idea is a long > nylon tape, but that's a hassle to move around for other measurements. > > I need accuracy to the foot or so. Prefer it to be under $50. Ease of > use is important. This is just so I can measure stuff on our lot, to > model our existing buildings so that we can play "what if" games with > other building heights/placements... > > Thanks! > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From opposumking at verizon.net Tue Mar 24 15:24:07 2009 From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:24:07 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cheap / easy ways to measure long (500' or so) distances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C95D87.8030708@verizon.net> HarborFreight has 330' tapes for $12.99 regular price. From bobkegel at seanet.com Tue Mar 24 15:53:53 2009 From: bobkegel at seanet.com (Bob Kegel) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:53:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cheap / easy ways to measure long (500' or so) distances In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8B33197027E24F13973768ADD964DADA@8sv5f01> Amazon has homeowner-grade 300' fiberglass tapes http://tinyurl.com/cv5kb7 for under $50. A 300' steel tape, suitable for use by surveyors, will run three times that. As noted, we can spend a lot less but I wouldn't expect 1 in 500 precision for $12.98. Bob Kegel Aberdeen, WA From eltonclark at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 15:56:39 2009 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:56:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cheap / easy ways to measure long (500' or so) distances In-Reply-To: <49C95D87.8030708@verizon.net> References: <49C95D87.8030708@verizon.net> Message-ID: *I solved a similar problem once by carefully measuring the diameter of the front wheel on my dirt bike (paint smear on the tire left marks on the driveway) and then putting a white tape wrap round the tire. Then I drove slowly and counted the revolutions . . not "survey" accurate but served my purpose. Once measured a quarter mile "street racing" drag strip the same way with a rag tied in the spoke of a Model A Ford!* *Tony* From halfnights at shaw.ca Tue Mar 24 16:24:02 2009 From: halfnights at shaw.ca (Art Halfnights) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:24:02 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 75 References: Message-ID: <000b01c9acd7$9e2300d0$1a454546@home> Good Day Group If your tank pressure is 70 PSI then you need a pressure reducing valve in line Water tanks, washing machines etc. work on about 35 psi only. How you get 70psi at the tank as I asked yesterday about the pump you are using must be deep well is the pressure not adjustable ??? where is the on off pressure switch?? Art Halfnights. From mark at sccaprepared.com Tue Mar 24 16:30:02 2009 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cheap / easy ways to measure long (500' or so) distances In-Reply-To: <49C95D87.8030708@verizon.net> References: <49C95D87.8030708@verizon.net> Message-ID: Howdy, On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Nolan wrote: > HarborFreight has 330' tapes for $12.99 regular price. Sounds like this is the path I'll take. I didn't realize that 1' in 500' was all that accurate... I'm sure fiberglass tape will be good enough for what I need to do. I was kinda hoping someone would tell me about a nifty range finder deal that cost $50. :-) Mark From strovato at optonline.net Tue Mar 24 16:36:17 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:36:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 75 In-Reply-To: <000b01c9acd7$9e2300d0$1a454546@home> References: <000b01c9acd7$9e2300d0$1a454546@home> Message-ID: <0KH100CCZAZE6QB0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I don't agree. 40-on, 60-off pressure switches are commonly used in many houses, including mine. All the appliances work just fine. The variation in pressure as the system cycles is not usually noticeable. 70psi is a little above normal, but this is usually just a matter of adjusting the cut-off point on the control switch. Actually, the whole switch is not that expensive, so if it's rusty and crusty from years of service, it's easier to replace than adjust. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 07:24 PM 3/24/2009, Art Halfnights wrote: >Good Day Group If your tank pressure is 70 PSI then you need a pressure >reducing valve in line Water tanks, washing machines etc. work on about 35 >psi only. How you get 70psi at the tank as I asked yesterday about the pump >you are using must be deep well is the pressure not adjustable ??? where is >the on off pressure switch?? Art Halfnights. From strovato at optonline.net Tue Mar 24 16:42:54 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:42:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cheap / easy ways to measure long (500' or so) distances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0KH100CBLB8ZEEH0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I don't know where you live, or how things work in your town/city. In my town, I can go to the town hall and look up whatever survey maps they have on file. If things were built with permits, or the property changed hands at some point, there may be a map there showing the property and all the buildings. This can be a useful starting point for playing "what if". Just a thought. -Steven Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 04:22 PM 3/24/2009, Mark Andy wrote: >This is just so I can measure stuff on our lot, to model our >existing buildings so that we can play "what if" games with other >building heights/placements... From gsteve at hammatt.com Tue Mar 24 17:23:22 2009 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:23:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal Message-ID: I'm soon going to be making some rectangular pieces of .040 aluminum sheet and I'll need to radius the corners. I'm at a loss for what to call the tool that can nip-off the corners. Can anyone give me a hint on the name or possible source for the tool? Thanks Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From strovato at optonline.net Tue Mar 24 17:40:40 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:40:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0KH100I2FDVT2L21@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Something like this? http://www.irvansmith.com/scart/corner-notcher-p-1098.html At 08:23 PM 3/24/2009, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: >I'm soon going to be making some rectangular pieces of .040 aluminum >sheet and I'll need to radius the corners. I'm at a loss for what >to call the tool that can nip-off the corners. Can anyone give me a >hint on the name or possible source for the tool? From gsteve at hammatt.com Tue Mar 24 17:48:42 2009 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:48:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No (I think), what I'm looking for is to cut off an outside point from each 90 degree corner. The radius will be less than 3/8" and it must look perfect. I believe what you're referring to is a hand nibbler more suitable for large radius work. Maybe I'm looking for a notcher capable of radiusing small corners? Any possible source? Thanks. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" To: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal > Nibbler, you were close. There are electric, air and manual > versions. > > Mark > Nashville > http://www.arrestmered.com > 58 "Bugeye" > 66 TR4A > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" > To: "Shop Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:23 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal > > > I'm soon going to be making some rectangular > pieces of .040 aluminum sheet and I'll need to > radius the corners. I'm at a loss for what to call > the tool that can nip-off the corners. Can anyone > give me a hint on the name or possible source for > the tool? > Thanks > > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as mark at nashvilletn.org > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.26/2020 - Release Date: 03/24/09 09:19:00 From pat at hornesystemstx.com Tue Mar 24 17:50:43 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:50:43 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C97FE3.50008@hornesystemstx.com> Steve, If you have a lot of corners to round there is a small punch press that was designed for cardboard and paper that my father used for years to round .032 and .040 aluminum. As I recall it was called a "Corner Rounder" He was rounding corners with about .1" radius, but it had interchangeable cutters for larger radii. I just did a search for "corner rounder" and the first hit was for a Lasco corner rounder similar to what dad used. It was $147 for the whole tool and replacement punch sets were just under $100. You should be able to find something cheaper used. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA, On 3/24/2009 7:23 PM: > I'm soon going to be making some rectangular pieces of .040 aluminum > sheet and I'll need to radius the corners. I'm at a loss for what to > call the tool that can nip-off the corners. Can anyone give me a hint > on the name or possible source for the tool? > Thanks > > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Mar 24 16:33:24 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:33:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 75 In-Reply-To: <000b01c9acd7$9e2300d0$1a454546@home> Message-ID: <01b201c9acd8$ed83efd0$b800000a@jdnet.deere.com> > Water tanks, washing machines etc. work on about > 35 psi only. I disagree. Standard 'city' water pressure is 50-70 psi, and it's higher than that in many places. Last time I checked, mine is about 70 psi, and my appliances seem to handle it just fine. I did replace the 40 year old water heater, and the 25+ year old dishwasher is about due; but I don't think high water pressure is the reason why The washing machine I bought new around 1982 was still working fine, but the new wife wanted to keep her Maytag and we didn't have room for both of them. And she's a lot more fun to cuddle up to than the washing machine! Randall From strovato at optonline.net Tue Mar 24 20:30:26 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:30:26 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0KH100EU7LTEJ9D1@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I guess I don't understand. This is a 3/8 round die for this tool. http://www.irvansmith.com/scart/round-cutting-unit-p-1103.html There are many other die choices, bigger and smaller. Why doesn't this meet your requirements? -Steve At 08:48 PM 3/24/2009, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: >No (I think), what I'm looking for is to cut off an outside >point from each 90 degree corner. The radius will be >less than 3/8" and it must look perfect. I believe what >you're referring to is a hand nibbler more suitable for >large radius work. Maybe I'm looking for a notcher >capable of radiusing small corners? Any possible source? >Thanks. From gsteve at hammatt.com Tue Mar 24 22:12:00 2009 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:12:00 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal In-Reply-To: <0KH100EU7LTEJ9D1@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0KH100EU7LTEJ9D1@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <01898CF408AC4CF4B5DF759C7EE56588@DesktopPC> Actually my reply shown below was associated with an earlier post that had suggested a nibbler, either manual, electrical or air powered. Your irvansmith item is just about exactly what I was referring to. Possibly the earlier post was only sent to me directly and not to the group. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Steve........thanks for pointing me in this direction. Your help is appreciated. Thanks. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Trovato" To: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" ; "Shop Talk" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] making radiused corners on sheet metal >I guess I don't understand. This is a 3/8 round die for this tool. > > http://www.irvansmith.com/scart/round-cutting-unit-p-1103.html > > There are many other die choices, bigger and smaller. Why doesn't > this meet your requirements? > > -Steve > > At 08:48 PM 3/24/2009, Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA wrote: >>No (I think), what I'm looking for is to cut off an outside >>point from each 90 degree corner. The radius will be >>less than 3/8" and it must look perfect. I believe what >>you're referring to is a hand nibbler more suitable for >>large radius work. Maybe I'm looking for a notcher >>capable of radiusing small corners? Any possible source? >>Thanks. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.26/2020 - Release Date: 03/24/09 09:19:00 From carl.r.lindahl at gmail.com Wed Mar 25 07:02:39 2009 From: carl.r.lindahl at gmail.com (Carl Lindahl) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:02:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop-talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 75 In-Reply-To: <01b201c9acd8$ed83efd0$b800000a@jdnet.deere.com> References: <000b01c9acd7$9e2300d0$1a454546@home> <01b201c9acd8$ed83efd0$b800000a@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: I have city water where I live, and the city water pressure delivered tot he house is ~90 PSI, and I have a pressure reducing valve that I have set to 60 PSI. Why I know this is the original pressure reducing valve with the house had failed and I was noticing significantly more flow through the faucets one day - I put a pressure gauge on one of the water taps, and found it to be 90. Called the City, and they said that is within their spec and recommend a pressure reducing valve to drop the pressure to "normal" 40 to 60 is what they said. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Randall wrote: >> Water tanks, washing machines etc. work on about >> 35 psi only. > > I disagree. Standard 'city' water pressure is 50-70 psi, and it's higher > than that in many places. Last time I checked, mine is about 70 psi, and my > appliances seem to handle it just fine. > > I did replace the 40 year old water heater, and the 25+ year old dishwasher > is about due; but I don't think high water pressure is the reason why > > The washing machine I bought new around 1982 was still working fine, but the > new wife wanted to keep her Maytag and we didn't have room for both of them. > > And she's a lot more fun to cuddle up to than the washing machine! > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as carl.r.lindahl at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From ejrussell at mebtel.net Thu Mar 26 20:19:18 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:19:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light Message-ID: My garage expansion project has gotten a green light. There is money in the budget, we have a building permit and an OK from the county environmental dept (an extra step needed because we have small pond on our property). The current garage/work shop is ~ 22' w X 22' d X 11' h. We'll double that to be ~ 44' w X 22' d X 11' h plus a "bonus room" above (my other hobby is model railroading). I can't go wider or deeper due to the aforementioned pond & rear property line set back requirements. I plan to have three ~10' wide doors (currently one 16' wide door). The first thought was to simply add another 16' door but I decided it both looked better with 3 doors plus my plan is one bay for the daily driver, second bay for working on cars (with a lift likely) and third bay for workshop area. The addition will also have a 4'-5' X 20' mechanical room off the back so I can put the air compressor, etc there. I'll lose a little bit of space in the 'daily driver' area for a staircase to the second floor room. To the right in the sketch below is a screened breezeway to the house. Any ideas for things I should plan for during the build? Things that'd be hard to add later. There'll be plenty of 20 amp 120V outlets plus 220V circuits for table saw, arc welder, air compressor & HVAC. Any ideas for garage doors that don't rob the headroom? (standard tracks will be in the way if/when I install a lift) Commercial 'coiling doors' look too, umm, industrial. Can I have the tracks for a standard sectional door continue vertically until near the 11' ceiling? Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of garage 3 sm.jpg] From chad at linuxeg.com Thu Mar 26 20:39:40 2009 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chad on LEG) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:39:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49CC4A7C.6010501@linuxeg.com> Don't know what sizes are available but a possible solution to your door dilemma might be bi-fold aircraft hanger doors. chad Eric J Russell wrote: > My garage expansion project has gotten a green light. There is money in the > budget, we have a building permit and an OK from the county environmental dept > (an extra step needed because we have small pond on our property). > > The current garage/work shop is ~ 22' w X 22' d X 11' h. We'll double that to > be ~ 44' w X 22' d X 11' h plus a "bonus room" above (my other hobby is model > railroading). I can't go wider or deeper due to the aforementioned pond & rear > property line set back requirements. > > I plan to have three ~10' wide doors (currently one 16' wide door). The first > thought was to simply add another 16' door but I decided it both looked better > with 3 doors plus my plan is one bay for the daily driver, second bay for > working on cars (with a lift likely) and third bay for workshop area. The > addition will also have a 4'-5' X 20' mechanical room off the back so I can > put the air compressor, etc there. I'll lose a little bit of space in the > 'daily driver' area for a staircase to the second floor room. > > To the right in the sketch below is a screened breezeway to the house. > > > Any ideas for things I should plan for during the build? Things that'd be hard > to add later. There'll be plenty of 20 amp 120V outlets plus 220V circuits for > table saw, arc welder, air compressor & HVAC. > > Any ideas for garage doors that don't rob the headroom? (standard tracks will > be in the way if/when I install a lift) Commercial 'coiling doors' look too, > umm, industrial. Can I have the tracks for a standard sectional door continue > vertically until near the 11' ceiling? > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of garage 3 sm.jpg] > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as chad at linuxeg.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From parkanzky at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 20:46:58 2009 From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:46:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a Liftmaster Jackshaft door opener and track extensions to bring the tracks right up against the (Just over 10') ceiling. That gives me enough room to park under a car on the lift. The bonus for your setup will be that there is no opener in the middle of the ceiling of each bay. -Paul On 3/26/09, Eric J Russell wrote: > Any ideas for garage doors that don't rob the headroom? (standard tracks will > be in the way if/when I install a lift) Commercial 'coiling doors' look too, > umm, industrial. Can I have the tracks for a standard sectional door continue > vertically until near the 11' ceiling? > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From shiples at comcast.net Thu Mar 26 21:00:20 2009 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:00:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20090326205714.0327a9a0@mail.comcast.net> >Any ideas for things I should plan for during the build? Things that'd be hard >to add later. There'll be plenty of 20 amp 120V outlets plus 220V circuits for >table saw, arc welder, air compressor & HVAC. Hot & cold running water, big stainless steel sink, and floor drains. Crapper, urinal, wet bar, lounge? From chad at linuxeg.com Thu Mar 26 22:38:00 2009 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chad on LEG) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:38:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20090326205714.0327a9a0@mail.comcast.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20090326205714.0327a9a0@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <49CC6638.3070108@linuxeg.com> From pat at hornesystemstx.com Fri Mar 27 07:24:51 2009 From: pat at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:24:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49CCE1B3.8080307@hornesystemstx.com> The shop I built is 30x40x10 with a 900 sq ft apartment on top, so it sounds like it is similar to what you are building. It is basically one room, 22x40, plus a bathroom and office. IT has one door in the center of the long wall. Consider moving your lift to one of the end stalls and put the daily driver in the middle. This way if you need more room temporally from one of the other two stalls yo can leave your daily driver outside and use that space right next to where you are working. I installed 1/4" pegboard on most of the walls in the shop area, floor to ceiling. In some areas this works fine, but in others, it isn't too useful. As mentioned by others, you can get the doors installed that go vertically to the ceiling before they lay over. There are some door openers that mount of the torsion shaft for the door that takes no room at all. I think it was Wayne Dayton, but don't have time to verify that right now. When doing the electrics, run at least some of the wires in conduit so you can pull in whatever wires you need for something special. Make sure the conduit is large in order to allow for the extra/larger wires. (If you have access to the space above the ceiling after the shop is completed, you can just run the conduit up into that area from some of the boxes, then run the wires normally back to the breaker panel - allow extra conduits into the space from the breaker panel also. In my shop I ran about 10 spare circuits out of the two breaker panels into a metal box in the attic so that I could get access to the extra breaker circuits if/when needed. So far I needed one of them, which wouldn't have been possible without much sore or drywall cutting. I have a utility sink in my shop, as well as a bath with sink, commode and shower. I heat my show with a wood burning stove and installed copper refrigeration lines for possible future A/C I pre-wired for exhaust fans in the welding area. Some folks have mentioned that a heated floor is nice to have in cold areas. In Texas that is not a problem, but may be in your area. The ceiling cover in my shop is corrugated metal. It can be removed when access to the space above the ceiling is needed for plumbing/electrical/ducting is needed, and it does a good job of reflecting light around. Consider taller overhead doors. There may be times when you need to get a load of something into the shop and a stock 7' high door may not be tall enough. I installed a 10' tall by 12' wide door. I can get my old travel trailer with the roof mounted A/C in there without any problem. You didn't say how large your pond is, but it may be large enough to use with a heat pump for your heating and cooling. It is much more efficient than standard air-sourced heat pumps. If possible, make the outside of the shop a material that will not need much maintenance. I used Hardie products. They are fiber-cement. This includes the trim. I will still have to paint it about every 10 years, but won't have rot to deal with. I used a metal roof, but not everyone likes the look. Telephone connection. Ethernet connection. TV connection. If you have room in your mechanical room you might want to wall off a small office. Peace, Pat > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of garage 3 sm.jpg] > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From ScottyGrover at aol.com Fri Mar 27 09:41:23 2009 From: ScottyGrover at aol.com (ScottyGrover at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:41:23 EDT Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light Message-ID: In a message dated 3/26/09 8:58:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, shiples at comcast.net writes: Hot & cold running water, big stainless steel sink, and floor drains. Crapper, urinal, wet bar, lounge? Crapper (Water Closet) is an excellent idea; with that you won't need a urinal. I wouldn't advise a wet bar or lounge unless you don't have any problem with alcohol dulling your mental sharps. Scotty from Hollyweird (wishing I had room for a shop in my apartment) **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) From 57healey at gmail.com Fri Mar 27 10:09:45 2009 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:09:45 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <743b1e2f0903271009r147ed472p56f9adcd1e5ccd50@mail.gmail.com> A simple shower wouldn't be a bad idea On 3/27/09, ScottyGrover at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/26/09 8:58:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > shiples at comcast.net writes: > > Hot & cold running water, big stainless steel sink, and floor drains. > Crapper, urinal, wet bar, lounge? > > > > Crapper (Water Closet) is an excellent idea; with that you won't need a > urinal. I wouldn't advise a wet bar or lounge unless you don't have any > problem > with alcohol dulling your mental sharps. > > Scotty from Hollyweird (wishing I had room for a shop in my apartment) > **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 > or > less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as 57healey at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive > -- Sent from my mobile device Patton Dickson - http://Austin-Healeys.com - Plano, TX 1957 Austin-Healey 100-Six "Built to run 'til the road wears out." 1977 Newport '28 From koblinger at verizon.net Fri Mar 27 11:48:37 2009 From: koblinger at verizon.net (koblinger at verizon.net) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:48:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light Message-ID: <946740808.28105761238179717827.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> I'm just finishing up on a new 20'x40' garage. A less than optimal size but it was the best I could do with the code restrictions I was faced with. My suggestions. I put in a couple of opening skylights for light and ventilation. Utilities. At least two runs each of RG-6 cable, Cat-5e (or Cat-6) for network and Cat-3 or Cat-5e for voice. Mine are going underground from the house in 2" conduits. And, when you pull the cables, pull a pull string and leave it in place. That will make it much easier if you decide to pull any more cable. Garage door opener. I got one of the small wall mount openers that attaches to the jackshaft. In fact it was installed yesterday. It's about the best thing since sliced bread! Just a little bigger than a shoe box and quiet. I'm also pouring a 10'x20' concrete pad behind the garage where the shed for garden tools will go as well as a potting bench for the wife. I used scissor trusses for more vertical clearance and an open ceiling but had everything painted white to reflect light and to seal it all. Cheers, Kurt O. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Patton Dickson wrote: > A simple shower wouldn't be a bad idea > > On 3/27/09, ScottyGrover at aol.com wrote: >> In a message dated 3/26/09 8:58:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> shiples at comcast.net writes: >> >> Hot & cold running water, big stainless steel sink, and floor >> drains. >> Crapper, urinal, wet bar, lounge? >> >> >> >> Crapper (Water Closet) is an excellent idea; with that you won't need >> a >> urinal. I wouldn't advise a wet bar or lounge unless you don't have >> any >> problem >> with alcohol dulling your mental sharps. >> >> Scotty from Hollyweird (wishing I had room for a shop in my >> apartment) >> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner >> for $10 >> or >> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as 57healey at gmail.com >> >> Shop-talk mailing list >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk >> >> http://www.team.net/archive >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > Patton Dickson - http://Austin-Healeys.com - Plano, TX > 1957 Austin-Healey 100-Six "Built to run 'til the road wears out." > 1977 Newport '28 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as koblinger at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Mar 27 13:03:40 2009 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light Message-ID: <845885.30206.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A white-colored ceiling is definitely a good idea to keep things well-lit. It's a lot harder to paint it after the garage is in use! It's a great idea for unfinished basements and attics, too. Doug --- On Fri, 3/27/09, koblinger at verizon.net wrote: > From: koblinger at verizon.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light > To: "Patton Dickson" <57healey at gmail.com> > Cc: ScottyGrover at aol.com, shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 2:48 PM > I'm just finishing up on a new > 20'x40' garage. A less than optimal size but it was the best > I could do with the code restrictions I was faced with. > > My suggestions. I put in a couple of opening skylights for > light and ventilation. Utilities. At least two runs each of > RG-6 cable, Cat-5e (or Cat-6) for network and Cat-3 or > Cat-5e for voice. Mine are going underground from the house > in 2" conduits. And, when you pull the cables, pull a pull > string and leave it in place. That will make it much easier > if you decide to pull any more cable. Garage door opener. I > got one of the small wall mount openers that attaches to the > jackshaft. In fact it was installed yesterday. It's about > the best thing since sliced bread! Just a little bigger than > a shoe box and quiet. I'm also pouring a 10'x20' > concrete pad behind the garage where the shed for garden > tools will go as well as a potting bench for the wife. I > used scissor trusses for more vertical clearance and an open > ceiling but had everything painted white to reflect light > and to seal it all. > > Cheers, > Kurt O. > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Patton Dickson wrote: > > > A simple shower wouldn't be a bad idea > > > > On 3/27/09, ScottyGrover at aol.com > > wrote: > >> In a message dated 3/26/09 8:58:39 P.M. Pacific > Daylight Time, > >> shiples at comcast.net > writes: > >> > >> Hot & cold running water, big stainless > steel sink, and floor drains. > >> Crapper, urinal, wet bar, lounge? > >> > >> > >> > >> Crapper (Water Closet) is an excellent idea; with > that you won't need a > >> urinal. I wouldn't advise a wet bar or > lounge unless you don't have any > >> problem > >> with alcohol dulling your mental sharps. > >> > >> Scotty from Hollyweird (wishing I had room for a > shop in my apartment) > >> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery > store? Make dinner for $10 > >> or > >> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > >> > >> You are subscribed as 57healey at gmail.com > >> > >> Shop-talk mailing list > >> > >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > >> > >> http://www.team.net/archive > >> > > > > -- Sent from my mobile device > > > > Patton Dickson - http://Austin-Healeys.com - Plano, TX > > 1957 Austin-Healey 100-Six "Built to run 'til the road > wears out." > > 1977 Newport '28 > > _______________________________________________ > > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > > > You are subscribed as koblinger at verizon.net > > > > Shop-talk mailing list > > > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > > > http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as doug at dougbraun.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri Mar 27 15:01:05 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:01:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: <946740808.28105761238179717827.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> References: <946740808.28105761238179717827.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Message-ID: <2C3272905C5A4CE8828323FA9F4D089D@EricJRussellPC> Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good ideas. It seems like a sectional door that goes up to the 11' ceiling will work well. And garage door openers that mount to the wall (instead of hanging from the ceiling) are another good idea. Here's a link to a webshots page where I've placed some of my sketches of door & dormer ideas. http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/570714378cIOpnc?vhost=home-and-garden Hopefully before too long I'll be able to add some photos as the project progresses. I have rented an 8' X 25' storage container which is now loaded with my MGA & 99% of my tools. The garage is now empty and ready for deconstruction. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From mbarre at juno.com Fri Mar 27 17:18:30 2009 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:18:30 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light Message-ID: <20090327.201830.9637.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> On my 40x30 metal shop I don't have a second floor and just left it open. I was going to add dummy dormers to match the look of the house but the constructor said "no way, no how." Apparently he had a bad experience with adding dormers and didn't want to mess with them again. Plus he said you have to be careful with the dimensions and scaling to get them to look right. Even if I could have talked him into it he said it would have been cost prohibitive. Part of that may have been due to the fact that it was metal vice stick built. I did go with the roof following door tracks and am very glad I did. I had always dreamed of a gleaming epoxy floor, but seeing some of the problems we are experiencing with the hangar floor at work, I opted for acid stain with simple sealer. For the bathroom I went with the traditional toilet & urinal. WIth a wife and two daughters, it is my last bastion of manliness! I was surprised at the cost of urinals, but bided my time and found one on eBay from a demolition for cheap. Enjoy the construction project! Matt Columbus GA ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Eric J Russell" To: "shop-talk" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:01:05 -0400 Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good ideas. It seems like a sectional door that goes up to the 11' ceiling will work well. And garage door openers that mount to the wall (instead of hanging from the ceiling) are another good idea. Here's a link to a webshots page where I've placed some of my sketches of door & dormer ideas. http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/570714378cIOpnc?vhost=home-and-gard en Hopefully before too long I'll be able to add some photos as the project progresses. I have rented an 8' X 25' storage container which is now loaded with my MGA & 99% of my tools. The garage is now empty and ready for deconstruction. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell You are subscribed as mbarre at juno.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive ____________________________________________________________ Go green. Save green. Get highly efficient solar power for your home by clicking now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTM2PIkLGCktYHjRuWtV2ny1V9xQ ukHd6SraeSl2RT6erx0zlnPfKA/ From kentsu at corvairkid.com Fri Mar 27 19:21:03 2009 From: kentsu at corvairkid.com (Kent Sullivan) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:21:03 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: <2C3272905C5A4CE8828323FA9F4D089D@EricJRussellPC> References: <946740808.28105761238179717827.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> <2C3272905C5A4CE8828323FA9F4D089D@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <06f501c9af4b$d7fd27b0$87f77710$@com> Hi, I have a 30' x 60' shop and feel very blessed. Have been using it now for about five years so can reflect on some of the choices we made. 1) 22' deep is quite short unless your car of choice is quite small. That's going to mean that the usual stuff you would have along the back wall (workbench, hard-to-move large tools) is going to have to live somewhere else, which means, I think, that you are going to need as much open space side-to-side as possible. Really think through the various jobs you hope to do in the space. Literally make a scale drawing of the floor plan and cut out shapes that are the right size for vehicles and major pieces of equipment and see how they fit. Don't forget to include space around each vehicle to work, with the doors open. This will tell you how much mobility the big pieces of equipment are going to need in order to be where you need them when you need them and out of the way otherwise. 2) What sort of lift are you planning on? Think hard about a two-post vs. four-post lift. Two-post is better for suspension work but gives you zero options for moving it around. Many of the four-post lifts (including mine) have caster kits that allow them to be moved. 3) Reconsider the 3 10' doors. Murphy's Law says (and I have experienced) that the break between 10' doors will regularly be in the wrong place for all sorts of projects, causing you a lot of extra jockeying around to get things where they need to be. Also, a 16' door makes it a LOT easier to get a car sideways for a longer-term project. Of course, you can use four-wheel dollies to rotate a car instead. 4) Are you going to have an compressed air system? If so, carefully consider the routing of the air lines. There is a definite architecture to all of this, which I won't go into here. The key is to plan it out early, otherwise Murphy will speak up and you'll find that the air lines collide with something else you have already mounted to the wall. Also, consider making a continuous loop back to the compressor, to help balance the flow. Helps prevent starvation at a tap when some other tap is being used "upstream" of it. 5) Design your lighting with someone who knows how to do this stuff. Overall brightness at the floor is important and equally important is how the fixtures are arranged to eliminate as many shadows as possible. And think about switching. Map out your entries and exits and think about how you will come and go. Think about whether you want a small number of lights on a separate bank for those times when you just want to pop into the shop to grab something then leave. 6) Think about clean vs. dirty areas. Four of the five stalls in my shop are one big space (with 2 16' doors) while the last stall is completely walled off with a 10'door for the "nice" car that needs to stay clean. This is also the library, rest area, etc. That's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure there's more... --Kent -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Eric J Russell Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 3:01 PM To: shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good ideas. It seems like a sectional door that goes up to the 11' ceiling will work well. And garage door openers that mount to the wall (instead of hanging from the ceiling) are another good idea. Here's a link to a webshots page where I've placed some of my sketches of door & dormer ideas. http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/570714378cIOpnc?vhost=home-and-gar den Hopefully before too long I'll be able to add some photos as the project progresses. I have rented an 8' X 25' storage container which is now loaded with my MGA & 99% of my tools. The garage is now empty and ready for deconstruction. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell You are subscribed as kentsu at corvairkid.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri Mar 27 19:52:18 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 22:52:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] garage expansion gets green light In-Reply-To: <06f501c9af4b$d7fd27b0$87f77710$@com> References: <946740808.28105761238179717827.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost><2C3272905C5A4CE8828323FA9F4D089D@EricJRussellPC> <06f501c9af4b$d7fd27b0$87f77710$@com> Message-ID: <4CCA8EAD6BBD4954B4131194ACE3316E@EricJRussellPC> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Sullivan" > > 22' deep is quite short unless your car of choice is quite small. I realize that the 22' depth is less than ideal. But it is what is and I can't go back further & don't want to build forwards. My current & future car projects will be MG's & Alfa's. I've been working with the 22' X 22' garage for the past 9 years. Thus 44' X 22' will be a chance to spread out a bit. It has been frustrating to have to move the car projects out of the way to do woodworking projects & vice-versa. My plan for the remodel is to have space for both. Most of my large woodworking tools are on mobile stands (and will remain so) so if/when needed I can shift things to allow for bigger/smaller auto/woodworking projects. I am leaning towards a 4 post lift. 50% for storage & 50% for maintenance. The casters fit into my plan of being able to allocate space to current projects as noted above. I am not committed to 3 medium doors vs. 2 large doors. I can see advantages/disadvantages to both. I will definitely draw a floor plan to scale & play with scale footprints for all the items I have & plan to have & wish to have. BTW, we searched around for another property to buy before we decided to proceed with the addition. Problem is we like this house, we like this location and we didn't find anything we liked better (at least in our price range...). Keep those ideas coming... Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell From trevor at boicey.com Sat Mar 28 07:48:21 2009 From: trevor at boicey.com (Trevor Boicey) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:48:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Want to borrow a four post? Message-ID: <49CE38B5.1030104@boicey.com> This offer is probably only useful for people that live near me (Ottawa, Canada)... but... I'm in the middle of moving house. My last house had a big four car garage and I have a four post hoist in there. I am now settling in to the new house, which WILL have a big garage but currently just has a falling-down single car garage. It doesn't look like I will have the new garage built until maybe 2010, and I have no good place to store the hoist. If anybody lives nearby and wants to borrow a hoist for a year or so, I'd love to work something out. I'd consider selling it but I think I'd rather lend it as I'd just end up having to buy it again later. It's a Hydra-Lift 60CB, 5000lbs. Requires four bolts to be drilled into concrete for each corner. Can be moved on a typical flatbed, I moved it once already between houses.