From kvacek at ameritech.net Sat Aug 1 18:16:36 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:16:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic bug killer Message-ID: <0B89F3ECD18749EB9B5D6F3FFBB019DB@KARL> I have 2 old electronic bug killers - same model. I recently brought them out of storage - one worked and one had died before putting them away. The working one was fine for a few days and then it died too. The one that was working now seems to have a shorted step-up transformer, because I only get 180 VAC across the high side (disconnected from the grids) and there's almost no power to make a spark. I believe these things normally put out a few thousand volts. I haven't checked the other one - I just put it back away when this one worked. Simple circuit - one side of the transformer gets 110V, the other side goes to the grids. No protection from shorts (like if it rains or a big bug gets in there, etc. The grids aren't shorted now, but certainly when it rains they can get shorted. Each one has served a few years outside, and lived through rain many times before. No ID on the transformer except 3 groups of 4 digits that don't looke like any specs - I think they're just part numbers. No manufacturer, no ratio, voltage, etc. and no clue in the numbers. Suggestions for repair ?? Suggestions for a protection circuit to keep from burning out the next ones ?? Thanks ! Karl "A Free People ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." George Washington From 61healeybn7 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 13:01:41 2009 From: 61healeybn7 at gmail.com (Dave) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:01:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Digital Levels Message-ID: <5b264fe50908021201x61549635n7a99ad7aacded541@mail.gmail.com> Looking for a recommendation for a good digital level. 10 inches or so, for general use. Quality, affordability, durability, etc. I see Sears has some, but the reviews seem mixed (?) Thanks, Dave From bspidell at comcast.net Sun Aug 2 14:16:42 2009 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 20:16:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Digital Levels In-Reply-To: <5b264fe50908021201x61549635n7a99ad7aacded541@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477869462.7905191249244202929.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have a small SmartTool I use for automotive work. They make several sizes--I'm very happy with mine. http://www.mdteam.com/products.php?category=1344 http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=smarttool&tag=googhydr-20&index=tools&hvadid=1103796101&ref=pd_sl_57es6xjqq6_b bs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <61healeybn7 at gmail.com> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2009 12:01:41 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [Shop-talk] Digital Levels Looking for a recommendation for a good digital level. 10 inches or so, for general use. Quality, affordability, durability, etc. I see Sears has some, but the reviews seem mixed (?) Thanks, Dave _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html You are subscribed as bspidell at comcast.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From 57healey at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 09:27:24 2009 From: 57healey at gmail.com (57healey at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:27:24 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack Message-ID: What are your experiences with Tirerack? I have to replace the tires on my Chrysler Aspen and those 18Ks can get pricey. Thanks Patton Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From hillman at planet-torque.com Mon Aug 3 10:06:51 2009 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <20090803155237.1020B18766C@autox.team.net> References: <20090803155237.1020B18766C@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <20090803115741.X98376@itonami.pair.com> On Mon, 3 Aug 2009, 57healey at gmail.com wrote: > What are your experiences with Tirerack? I have to replace the tires > on my Chrysler Aspen and those 18Ks can get pricey. There's no better place to buy tires, as long as you can either handle the mounting yourself, or have a local place that'll mount tires you bring 'em. I've bought more sets of tires than I can count from them, most recently a set of Yokohamas for my wife's Saab a couple weeks ago, but before that many sets for various racecars and other cars. It's actually a little disturbing how fast they arrive here in Illinois... I've ordered in the afternoon and had the tires on my doorstep the following morning. The selection is far better than anything you're liable to find at a local shop, and the prices will be cheap enough to make it worthwhile to cart your own tires in, usually. That said, if you don't really care what tires you buy as long as they're round and black, you might as well keep the guys in the shop happy and buy directly from them. Some really don't like mounting tires bought elsewhere... some don't mind. -- David Hillman From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 10:13:08 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:13:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <20090803155223.EAA8B187883@autox.team.net> References: <20090803155223.EAA8B187883@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d40908030913x53e3e88br1e9420dd20fede16@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:27 AM, <57healey at gmail.com> wrote: > What are your experiences with Tirerack? I have to replace the tires on my > Chrysler Aspen and those 18Ks can get pricey. > the tirerack are great. But, it's worth shopping around. Their prices aren't always the best, and even if they are, I'm not sure the hassle of having to get tires shipped and finding someone to mount them, etc is worth a few bucks a wheel. But for something like the 18 or 20 inch tires on a barge like the aspen, though, they may be a good deal. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jamesf at groupwbench.org Mon Aug 3 10:19:42 2009 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:19:42 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <20090803155247.36F5A1878D0@autox.team.net> References: <20090803155247.36F5A1878D0@autox.team.net> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:27 AM, 57healey at gmail.com wrote: > What are your experiences with Tirerack? I have to replace the > tires on my Chrysler Aspen and those 18Ks can get pricey. > > Thanks > Patton Tirerack is fine under normal circumstances. I have used them a few times and they will ship to your preferred installer. However they're mostly a one way valve. I had to return a set of tires and it was a 2 month nightmare with lost tires, crap customer service, etc. jim From pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu Mon Aug 3 10:39:14 2009 From: pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:39:14 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <20090803115741.X98376@itonami.pair.com> References: <20090803155237.1020B18766C@autox.team.net> <20090803115741.X98376@itonami.pair.com> Message-ID: <4A7712B2.4080605@mail.utexas.edu> David, Thanks for the information. It is just what I figured. One other related question is with warranty replacements. Has anyone had any problems getting defective tires replaced? I've been using Discount Tire for many years. They are more expensive that Tirerack, but they are almost everywhere and I've had good luck with their replacement policies. A couple months ago I needed a set of Yokohama tires for my Honda CR-V. Tire rack had them for $109, plus shipping. Discount wanted $129 plus shipping (they were not a stocked size). I went with Discount because of the warranty, but for the $80 it might have been better to go with Tirerack. One thing I found is that with new vehicles with TPS, the tire mounting will require the replacement of the seals on the stem. This runs $10-$20 per tire. After tax, seals, mounting, balancing, road hazard replacement, out the door the $520 worth of tires cost $700! This was a bit more than I had expected. It seems that Discount Tire has started charging for things they used to throw in at no charge. Next time I need tires I will look closer at Tirerack! Peace, Pat Thusly spake David Hillman, On 8/3/2009 11:06 AM: > > -- > David Hillman > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From strovato at optonline.net Mon Aug 3 10:46:55 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:46:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40908030913x53e3e88br1e9420dd20fede16@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20090803155223.EAA8B187883@autox.team.net> <2400a5d40908030913x53e3e88br1e9420dd20fede16@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0KNT009KE7ZA5OW0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Tirerack has a list of participating installers. If you find one of those in your area, you shouldn't have any hassle with them. They should also let you have Tirerack ship directly to them if you want. Also, you can always use the Tirerack final shipped price + the cost to install as a starting point for negotiating with the locals. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From jem at milleredp.com Mon Aug 3 11:00:58 2009 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:00:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40908030913x53e3e88br1e9420dd20fede16@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090803155223.EAA8B187883@autox.team.net> <2400a5d40908030913x53e3e88br1e9420dd20fede16@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7717CA.5030108@milleredp.com> >> What are your experiences with Tirerack? I have to replace the tires on my >> Chrysler Aspen and those 18Ks can get pricey. > > the tirerack are great. But, it's worth shopping around. Their prices > aren't always the best, and even if they are, I'm not sure the hassle of > having to get tires shipped and finding someone to mount them, etc is worth > a few bucks a wheel. But for something like the 18 or 20 inch tires on a > barge like the aspen, though, they may be a good deal. I guess I've been buying from Tire Rack for a dozen years or so now, my last couple efforts at buying tires locally kinda failed (the shop guys had their heads up their backsides) and the shop I take my alignment, etc. work to is a Tire Rack installer. John. From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Mon Aug 3 11:27:08 2009 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim (IS)) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:27:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <0KNT009KE7ZA5OW0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <20090803155223.EAA8B187883@autox.team.net><2400a5d40908030913x53e3e88br1e9420dd20fede16@mail.gmail.com> <0KNT009KE7ZA5OW0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7970349B346@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Steven Trovato wrote: > > Tirerack has a list of participating installers. If you find > one of those in your area, you shouldn't have any hassle with > them. They should also let you have Tirerack ship directly to > them if you want. I've done this several times for hard to find (i.e. Performance) tires. Ship them to a local shop (call them and tell them they are coming), and when they arrive, the shop calls me to set up a time for installing the tires. Remember to add in the shops cost of mounting, balancing, etc. into the price as that's often (but not always) included in the price when buying at local shops. For common tires (i.e. Michelins for my Accord) I tend to get them at Costco as it tends to be cheaper (they deal in huge volumes), and comes with free flat repairs, etc. (the free tire rotations and nitrogen fill-ups are no big thing to me). High performance tires, or the off-road truck tires however come from TireRack... Tim Mullen Chantilly, VA From ericm at lne.com Mon Aug 3 11:29:21 2009 From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:29:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <20090803155228.497951878D2@autox.team.net> References: <20090803155228.497951878D2@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <20090803172921.GA3558@slack.lne.com> On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 03:27:24PM +0000, 57healey at gmail.com wrote: > What are your experiences with Tirerack? I have to replace the tires on my Chrysler Aspen and those 18Ks can get pricey. I've bought a number of sets of tires, and a couple tires + wheels, from them. I have gotten into the habit of calling my local tire store, who are happy to install TireRack tires, before I order. They can often match the price especially once shipping is included. I'd rather the profit go to a local store if it's not costing me significantly more. Eric From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Aug 3 13:22:32 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:22:32 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <20090803155239.690711878E6@autox.team.net> References: <20090803155239.690711878E6@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <87312D4A4EAF4A2E9A066ED34A71AE35@jdnet.deere.com> > What are your experiences with Tirerack? Just to echo what others have said, they aren't always the cheapest by the time all the costs are added; but do have a great selection. I've never tried to return tires to them, though, so can't speak to that aspect. My local Wal-Mart had no objections to mounting and balancing 'my' TR3 tires; in fact they did it for free! I doubt that is normal, but the guy running the tire machine insisted that I didn't owe them anything. Possibly that was because I took him the bare rims (freshly painted and new stems installed), so no 'disposal' fee or labor for doing the R&R. But for my "LBC support vehicle", I buy from a local store that does free flat repair. Seems that, for the past few years, every tire I've owned has picked up a nail or bolt at least once in it's life; and that store will do the repair while I eat lunch next door. The convenience is worth $10/tire, to me. -- Randall From bbubeck01 at comcast.net Mon Aug 3 13:45:41 2009 From: bbubeck01 at comcast.net (bbubeck01 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:45:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <1382911208.5542891249328003010.JavaMail.root@sz0010a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1602076733.5546951249328741770.JavaMail.root@sz0010a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I'veB bought many sets of tires from Tirerack. I live fairly close to one of their warehouses so the tires are delivered the day after I order them. Their site with tire ratings and selection is excellent. My only issue everB was with one ofB their authorized installers. On Tirerack's site this installer said that mounting and balancing was $16/tire and up. I made an appointment, showed up with the tires, and was told the $16 /tireB did not include all their fees and was much higher for 50 series tires.B T he total price would be just over $50/tire. I left that place and went to a different Tirerack installer that charged me $25/tire total.B Bruce B ----- Original Message ----- From: 57healey at gmail.com To: "Healey List" , "Shop-Talk" Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:27:24 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack What are your experiences with Tirerack? B I have to replace the tires on my Chrysler Aspen and those 18Ks can get pricey. Thanks Patton Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From mg_garage at comcast.net Mon Aug 3 16:32:14 2009 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:32:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack References: <20090803155237.1020B18766C@autox.team.net><20090803115741.X98376@itonami.pair.com> <4A7712B2.4080605@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <3511AD54656045018EAD6C5D207DDEB2@stargate> We bought a set for wifes car a few years ago. Within a couple of weeks she hit a huge pothole and blew out two of them. Upon contacting tirerack, they said that there is a 6 mo road hazard warranty and within a couple of days two new tires showed up on our doorstep. Can't ask for much better than that! Gordie > David, > > Thanks for the information. It is just what I figured. One other related > question is with warranty replacements. Has anyone had any problems > getting defective tires replaced? > > I've been using Discount Tire for many years. They are more expensive that > Tirerack, but they are almost everywhere and I've had good luck with their > replacement policies. > > A couple months ago I needed a set of Yokohama tires for my Honda CR-V. > Tire rack had them for $109, plus shipping. Discount wanted $129 plus > shipping (they were not a stocked size). I went with Discount because of > the warranty, but for the $80 it might have been better to go with > Tirerack. > > One thing I found is that with new vehicles with TPS, the tire mounting > will require the replacement of the seals on the stem. This runs $10-$20 > per tire. After tax, seals, mounting, balancing, road hazard replacement, > out the door the $520 worth of tires cost $700! This was a bit more than I > had expected. It seems that Discount Tire has started charging for things > they used to throw in at no charge. Next time I need tires I will look > closer at Tirerack! > > Peace, > Pat > > Thusly spake David Hillman, On 8/3/2009 11:06 AM: >> >> -- >> David Hillman >> _______________________________________________ From aztvr at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 20:47:33 2009 From: aztvr at yahoo.com (Jim S.) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <4A7712B2.4080605@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <153005.28513.qm@web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I use Discount Tire for the same reasons that you mentioned. I take a print-out of the TireRack price in with me and they either match or come close. They employ people from my neighborhood. It's worth a few extra bucks to be able to talk face to face with the seller of the goods. Jim --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Pat Horne wrote: I've been using Discount Tire for many years. They are more expensive that Tirerack, but they are almost everywhere and I've had good luck with their replacement policies. From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com Mon Aug 3 22:17:31 2009 From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:17:31 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe Message-ID: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC> Just wanted to pass on the less than satisfying tale of my Ryobi BC30 trimmer. It seemed like $150 well spent: it started well, cut through most anything with either the string head or brushcutter blade, and felt pretty good for 25 months, until the motor appeared to release its hold on the output shaft. Too bad it had a 24 month warranty. Their response when I asked for some leeway on the 24 months? They sent me a list of authorized service centers that would take my money. Off to buy an Echo or Stihl. Mark Miller With weeds starting to take over From jibjib at att.net Mon Aug 3 23:58:09 2009 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:58:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack In-Reply-To: <20090803155236.320BA1878D3@autox.team.net> References: <20090803155236.320BA1878D3@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <4A27450FE125446BB68E570F56D1EF1A@HPPavilion> My local guy will almost always match or beat their prices on the tires and he'll wallop their installers on the install cost. He's a local Tire Factory store (West coast only). Know where you will install them first as prices vary widely and may cost extra for valves, balancing, etc., etc. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of 57healey at gmail.com Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:27 AM To: Healey List; Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Tirerack What are your experiences with Tirerack? I have to replace the tires on my Chrysler Aspen and those 18Ks can get pricey. Thanks Patton Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 08:49:58 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:49:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe In-Reply-To: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC> References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC> Message-ID: <2400a5d40908040749i5c21640aoc1307dee0f771343@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Mark Miller wrote: > Just wanted to pass on the less than satisfying tale of my n > trimmer. It seemed like $150 well spent: it started well, cut through most > anything with either the string head or brushcutter blade, and felt pretty > good for 25 months, until the motor appeared to release its hold on the > output shaft. Too bad it had a 24 month warranty. Their response when I > asked for some leeway on the 24 months? They sent me a list of authorized > service centers that would take my money. > > Off to buy an Echo or Stihl. > Echo and Stihl would tell you the same thing about the warranty. And for consumer products, the warranty period is a good guide to how long the factory thiks they'll last. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Aug 4 09:00:28 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:00:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC> Message-ID: Go for the Stihl. Echo isn't what it used to be. And if you do buy an Echo, read the fine print somewhere in the middle of the manual that tells you to use 89 octane gas, never use any gas more than 90 days old, and always use their oil - never any other kind. My 1971 (appx.) Echo blower is still going strong. It's had up to 2-year-old regular gas with whatever oil I had to put in it. 2 carb diaphragms, wore out a few of the nozzles that drag on the ground, and a fuel tank grommet. That's it. Bought an Echo blower/shredder/vac 2-1/2 years ago and it literally fell apart the first time I tried it. The dealer only told me to use their oil - nothing about the gas requirement. As soon as I'd Locktited the loosening handle screws (that require lots of disassembly to get to) the plastic blower housing split wide open. It had less than 1/2 an hour on it, sucking up leaves in our flowerbeds. Got it back 6 months later after the dealer insisted that I am a landscaper and had worn it out. In the next half hour of use (the next fall) the engine seemed hot and finally spit fire out and melted the plastic engine side of the housing. Another 8 months at the dealer and I got it back with a new plastic housing half and no word about any engine repair - still ran hot immediately. Called Echo, went to a huge dealer, and learned of the fuel issue to which they attributed ALL my problems (!!??) The cylinder was scored and so the engine was junk. After many calls they agreed to install a short block for $100 parts, they took care of labor. And the warrantee was up. Wanna buy it ?? Karl > Just wanted to pass on the less than satisfying tale of my Ryobi BC30 > trimmer. It seemed like $150 well spent: it started well, cut through > most > anything with either the string head or brushcutter blade, and felt pretty > good for 25 months, until the motor appeared to release its hold on the > output shaft. Too bad it had a 24 month warranty. Their response when I > asked for some leeway on the 24 months? They sent me a list of authorized > service centers that would take my money. > > Off to buy an Echo or Stihl. > > Mark Miller > With weeds starting to take over > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From pethier at comcast.net Tue Aug 4 09:12:58 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:12:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Line levels In-Reply-To: <4A73563A.8090105@comcast.net> Message-ID: <303579588.8779101249398778544.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> ----- "Peter J. Thomas" wrote: > Might try a water level, long plastic tube filled with water. +1 A bit fiddly, but once you have it set up, it's accurate over any distance. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Aug 4 09:45:45 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:45:45 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40908040749i5c21640aoc1307dee0f771343@mail.gmail.com> References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC> <2400a5d40908040749i5c21640aoc1307dee0f771343@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7857A9.1040609@xxiii.com> David Scheidt wrote: >> output shaft. Too bad it had a 24 month warranty. Their response when I >> asked for some leeway on the 24 months? They sent me a list of authorized >> service centers that would take my money. > > Echo and Stihl would tell you the same thing about the warranty. And for > consumer products, the warranty period is a good guide to how long the Yeah, I was gonna say the same. Honestly, 24 months is a pretty good warranty these days, esp for power equipment. I have an old Ryobi trimmer, probably 10 years old that's been great. But I thought Ryobi has gotten out of the power equipment biz? There are other brands that appear to be clones of their stuff, like some one licensed the designs, or maybe the whole factory to one of the other guys. Mine has the swappable attachments, and a couple other brands appear to have the identical interchangeable design. Seemed like a good idea (fewer small engines to maintain.) But in reality, it makes the thing heavier and the attachments I've tried are a lame approximation of the real thing. -Wayne From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Aug 4 09:50:49 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:50:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe In-Reply-To: References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC> Message-ID: <4A7858D9.6060605@xxiii.com> Karl Vacek wrote: > .... read the fine print somewhere in the middle of the manual that > tells you to use 89 octane gas, never use any gas more than 90 days old, > and always use their oil - never any other kind. What's with the gas thing? Is it higher or lower octane that is harmful? I have a friend that used to own a power equipment repair biz that swears you should only run the highest octane in them. On a side note -- He was in an accident years ago and is about 99% blind, but still does a damn good job at carb rebuilding! Says after the 1,000th one he doesn't really need to see them to do it. -Wayne From eabb at loc.gov Tue Aug 4 10:25:33 2009 From: eabb at loc.gov (Eugene D Abbondelo) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:25:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Volvo engine Message-ID: <4A7828BD020000740007510C@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Free Volvo engine from an early 1980's Volvo 240. Gas engine, non-turbo. Fellow Volvo club member gave it to me about 10 years ago, and said it was running then; never had to use it. I'm cleaning out my garage and need to get rid of it. I'm in the Washington, D.C. area. Gene Hyattsville, Md. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 4 10:38:56 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:38:56 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe In-Reply-To: <4A7858D9.6060605@xxiii.com> References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC> <4A7858D9.6060605@xxiii.com> Message-ID: > What's with the gas thing? Is it higher or lower octane that is > harmful? Using fuel with too low an octane can lead to serious engine damage. Octane too high just wastes money. There was a time when "premium" also meant better additive packages, but I don't believe that is true any more. -- Randall From stuart.a.galt at boeing.com Tue Aug 4 10:58:45 2009 From: stuart.a.galt at boeing.com (Galt, Stuart A) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:58:45 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Line levels In-Reply-To: <303579588.8779101249398778544.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <4A73563A.8090105@comcast.net> <303579588.8779101249398778544.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: pethier at comcast.net [mailto:pethier at comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 8:13 AM > To: Peter J. Thomas > Cc: Shop Talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Line levels > > ----- "Peter J. Thomas" wrote: > > > Might try a water level, long plastic tube filled with water. > > +1 > > A bit fiddly, but once you have it set up, it's accurate over > any distance. Until you get up to a size where tides make a difference :) But ya for any homeower sized project it should be fine Stuart (the wise arse) From pj_thomas at comcast.net Tue Aug 4 11:05:50 2009 From: pj_thomas at comcast.net (Peter J. Thomas) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:05:50 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Line levels In-Reply-To: References: <4A73563A.8090105@comcast.net> <303579588.8779101249398778544.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A786A6E.5030607@comcast.net> Galt, Stuart A wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pethier at comcast.net [mailto:pethier at comcast.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 8:13 AM >> To: Peter J. Thomas >> Cc: Shop Talk >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Line levels >> >> ----- "Peter J. Thomas" wrote: >> >> >>> Might try a water level, long plastic tube filled with water. >>> >> +1 >> >> A bit fiddly, but once you have it set up, it's accurate over >> any distance. >> > > Until you get up to a size where tides make a difference :) Or localized gravity fields. ;-) > But ya > for any homeower sized project it should be fine > > Stuart (the wise arse) From pethier at comcast.net Tue Aug 4 11:42:58 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:42:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1955562809.8859011249407778848.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In Minnesota, a few selected gas stations sell Premium which does not have alcohol in it. This fuel is supposed to be used in small engines and classic cars. Normal cars are expected to run on 10% alcohol and our brain-dead Republican governor wants to raise it to 20%. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier ----- "Randall" wrote: > From: "Randall" > To: "Shop Talk List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 11:38:56 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe > > > What's with the gas thing? Is it higher or lower octane that is > > harmful? > > Using fuel with too low an octane can lead to serious engine damage. > > Octane too high just wastes money. > > There was a time when "premium" also meant better additive packages, > but I > don't believe that is true any more. > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pethier at comcast.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Aug 4 12:15:05 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:15:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC><4A7858D9.6060605@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <68CC27D53B8B4D1F9FB0AAEDD0D01F87@KARL> I think his question was in regard to Echo's new requirement to use 89 octane fuel (if you ask them they will say 89 minimum - higher is OK), but their manuals now just say 89 octane. It seems odd for a 2-cycle garden implement, especially since they're not all that high in compression and should be intended for less-than-optimal operating conditions. And the issue with my Echo engine was a scored cylinder - the piston crown was just fine rather than eaten up as you'd expect from a typical low octane preignition issue. Karl >> What's with the gas thing? Is it higher or lower octane that is >> harmful? > > Using fuel with too low an octane can lead to serious engine damage. > > Octane too high just wastes money. > > There was a time when "premium" also meant better additive packages, but I > don't believe that is true any more. > > -- Randall > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 4 12:47:47 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:47:47 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe In-Reply-To: <68CC27D53B8B4D1F9FB0AAEDD0D01F87@KARL> References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC><4A7858D9.6060605@xxiii.com> <68CC27D53B8B4D1F9FB0AAEDD0D01F87@KARL> Message-ID: <5767A5D892B14F4BBE046A10AB57EDB0@jdnet.deere.com> > And the issue with my Echo engine was a scored cylinder - the piston crown > was just fine rather than eaten up as you'd expect from a typical low > octane preignition issue. Somewhere I've got a TR3 piston that looks nearly perfect, until you turn it to see the broken ring lands. Almost certainly from detonation (aka pre-ignition) caused by excessive oil burning (which dramatically lowers octane) in that cylinder. (Valve guides were badly worn, and one of the stem seals I had added to band-aid the problem came apart.) I'm not saying your problem was caused by low octane fuel; just that detonation damage takes many forms. I've read that combustion pressure gets behind the top ring to force it harder against the cylinder wall, so maybe extremely high pressures (like from detonation) could cause too much pressure and subsequent galling? > It seems odd for a 2-cycle garden implement, especially since they're not > all that high in compression and should be intended for less-than-optimal > operating conditions. Seems odd to me too; but I have no idea what the dynamic compression would be. High power in a small, light package would certainly seem to imply reasonably high compression, and I assume it burns a fuel/oil mixture, which would lower the octane. Still, I can't blame them for saying "this is what is required" ... if you don't like it, don't buy their product. -- Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Aug 4 14:09:18 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:09:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC><4A7858D9.6060605@xxiii.com><68CC27D53B8B4D1F9FB0AAEDD0D01F87@KARL> <5767A5D892B14F4BBE046A10AB57EDB0@jdnet.deere.com> Message-ID: <36D04D49CF404957956B872373EFA288@KARL> > Still, I can't blame them for saying "this is what is required" ... if you > don't like it, don't buy their product. I wouldn't blame them so much if it were a more typical requirement and included as a matter of course in the standard and visible cautions. However, unless it's visibly marked, or dealers warn of this requirement before selling the product, there's little chance anyone will know buying. In this case, it's sure the first time I've ever seen an octane requirement like this for a garden implement. And the 90-day-old fuel requirement may be reasonable too, but it should be pointed out somewhere obvious. Hiding such critical (and warrantee-killing) requirements in the fine print of the manual among all the "Do not lick the exhaust pipe while the engine is running" warnings is not what I'd call visible. A warning someplace a normal person would see it would be the minimum IMHO, and in this case a sticker on the tank or fuel cap would seem to be in order. I'll say it again -- Beware if you buy an Echo product - they're not what they once were. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 4 15:11:53 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:11:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brush trimmer tales of woe In-Reply-To: <36D04D49CF404957956B872373EFA288@KARL> References: <10DB47F5AE134C25A42869966C0BC095@OFFICEPC><4A7858D9.6060605@xxiii.com><68CC27D53B8B4D1F9FB0AAEDD0D01F87@KARL> <5767A5D892B14F4BBE046A10AB57EDB0@jdnet.deere.com> <36D04D49CF404957956B872373EFA288@KARL> Message-ID: > A warning someplace a normal person would see it would be the minimum > IMHO, > and in this case a sticker on the tank or fuel cap would seem to be in > order. I'm not really disagreeing with you Karl, just observing that the octane requirements for my car are equally buried in the owner's manual. My string trimmer is an old Home-heavy, and it doesn't even mention the need for oil on the fuel tank cap. In fact, you've got to be pretty familiar with it to even realize that the black knob on the handle is the fuel tank cap (the hollow handle doubles as the fuel tank). I don't remember there being an octane requirement even in the manual, but I'm sure it has some minimum octane required for long life. As to the quality of Echo products, I have no idea. But I do note that their web site boasts of their new "patented" engine technology; and another site mentions 20% more torque from only 5% more displacement. Sounds like a high compression hotrod engine to me. -- Randall From jamesf at groupwbench.org Wed Aug 5 06:13:55 2009 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:13:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Line levels In-Reply-To: <303579588.8779101249398778544.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <303579588.8779101249398778544.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <91B296E3-9E74-4E50-A7EB-DBC985B2B166@groupwbench.org> On Aug 4, 2009, at 11:12 AM, pethier at comcast.net wrote: > ----- "Peter J. Thomas" wrote: > >> Might try a water level, long plastic tube filled with water. > > +1 > > A bit fiddly, but once you have it set up, it's accurate over any > distance. Definitely too fiddly for hanging gutters. I'll just use a regular level. I did get a response to my complaint to Ace Hardware, from the Johnson Level company. While they showed general concern, and offered a replacement, they didn't offer an explanation of why it was out of level. They told me how to test for accuracy on its feet, but that's not why I bought a *line* level. A plus to them is there's enough meat on the hooks that I can file one down to make it level. Not the case with the other two I have. jim From strovato at optonline.net Wed Aug 5 08:14:55 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:14:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Line levels In-Reply-To: <91B296E3-9E74-4E50-A7EB-DBC985B2B166@groupwbench.org> References: <303579588.8779101249398778544.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <91B296E3-9E74-4E50-A7EB-DBC985B2B166@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <0KNW007D7Q9HGK50@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> You know, there are electronic water levels. I find them a bit more convenient than just a hose, especially if working alone. Check this out: http://www.amazon.com/Zircon-58467-Electronic-Water-Level/dp/B0009YJB7U/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1249481263&sr=8-5 I used one for setting the posts when building my deck. You hang one end on a nail at the level you want and it beeps when you have the other end at the same level. I will leave it up to you to determine if this passes your "fiddliness" test. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 08:13 AM 8/5/2009, Jim Franklin wrote: >Definitely too fiddly for hanging gutters. I'll just use a regular >level. From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Aug 5 09:02:45 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:02:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Couple of good gluing tips Message-ID: <9435C19B537540E4A6C7039BD73E0CD3@KARL> These just came through the MG-TABC list and looked really helpful, so I thought I'd pass them on. I never considered the wet sanding technique to avoid flash oxidation on aluminum, etc., but it sure makes sense. I certainly agree that moat hardware store epoxies aren't worth the goo in the tubes!. For many years we had garage customers come by our sailing hardware store looking for JB Weld or a sub. to close pinholes in gas tanks. By & by we switched them over to W.E.S.T. epoxy as a better product. Basically you clean leak pinhole with whatever, then force epoxy thru hole (enlarging if necessary). This creates a "mushroom" head in tank that seems to produce a reliable fix. The same technique can be used to patch pinholes in air toys, rafts, etc. Only instead of using epoxy use 3M 5200 adhesive sealant. Force it thru to make a mushroom head on inside of vinyl & you are back in business. When bonding a hard to bond metal , e.g. alum. to whatever, there is an easy technique. Just "wet" sand the alum with catalyzed epoxy & emery paper. Sanding alum. Bnz. Copper, & other hard to bond metals to bright metal doesn't really get the metal "bondable" clean . They may look clean, but after cleaning they will still oxidize enough to result in an unreliable bond. Wet sanding with epoxy insures that surface is covered with epoxy film, isn't exposed to air & thus won't oxidize. Bill TC4926 Odessa, Florida From mark at bradakis.com Wed Aug 5 21:36:31 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:36:31 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] Duct Tape Fix #673 Message-ID: <4A7A4FBF.4000504@bradakis.com> http://www.team.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15 mjb. From strovato at optonline.net Thu Aug 6 14:02:49 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:02:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuel system deposits In-Reply-To: <4A7A4FBF.4000504@bradakis.com> References: <4A7A4FBF.4000504@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <0KNZ00LUB10X4L61@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I have a boat that has been having fuel system problems. I have been finding black flakes in the carburetor bowl. The screen at the carb inlet seems to have develop a black coating. The pieces look like carbon paper. The question is, where is this coming from? The pieces in the bowl seem way too big to have ever made it through the fuel filter and the screen. And the deposits on the screen look like they formed there, not like little bits that just got trapped there. I live in NY, where fuel is oxygenated, usually 10% alcohol. The boat is a 1993 model. Manual warns against alcohol in fuel, but without a time machine, there's not much I can do about that. I suppose the hoses or fuel pump diaphragm could be deteriorating. I've never seen deposits form like that, and I can't see how else such large flakes got there. BTW, fuel tank is white plastic, and the engine is a 5.0l Ford with a Holley carb. Any theories? I wish I could send some of these flakes off to the CSI lab. Thanks. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu Thu Aug 6 15:24:45 2009 From: pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:24:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuel system deposits In-Reply-To: <0KNZ00LUB10X4L61@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <4A7A4FBF.4000504@bradakis.com> <0KNZ00LUB10X4L61@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <4A7B4A1D.1080706@mail.utexas.edu> Steve, I'd suspect the fuel pump diaphragm. I had a boat on which the fuel pump died after running alcohol-containing fuel. It didn't shed stuff, just got hard and wouldn't pump. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Steven Trovato, On 8/6/2009 3:02 PM: > I have a boat that has been having fuel system problems. I have been > finding black flakes in the carburetor bowl. The screen at the carb > inlet seems to have develop a black coating. The pieces look like > carbon paper. The question is, where is this coming from? The pieces > in the bowl seem way too big to have ever made it through the fuel > filter and the screen. And the deposits on the screen look like they > formed there, not like little bits that just got trapped there. I > live in NY, where fuel is oxygenated, usually 10% alcohol. The boat > is a 1993 model. Manual warns against alcohol in fuel, but without a > time machine, there's not much I can do about that. I suppose the > hoses or fuel pump diaphragm could be deteriorating. I've never seen > deposits form like that, and I can't see how else such large flakes > got there. BTW, fuel tank is white plastic, and the engine is a 5.0l > Ford with a Holley carb. Any theories? I wish I could send some of > these flakes off to the CSI lab. Thanks. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From strovato at optonline.net Thu Aug 6 15:33:56 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:33:56 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fuel system deposits In-Reply-To: <4A7B4A1D.1080706@mail.utexas.edu> References: <4A7A4FBF.4000504@bradakis.com> <0KNZ00LUB10X4L61@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <4A7B4A1D.1080706@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <0KNZ00D3E5ALNRD0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Thanks Gordie, Pat. The fuel hoses and fuel pump diaphragm are certainly suspects. I'm just having a hard time figuring how large flakes could make it through the fuel filter and the inlet screen. From jmitch at snet.net Sun Aug 9 07:33:59 2009 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 09:33:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Polyurethane recommendation Message-ID: <4A7ED047.9040308@snet.net> I have a fiberglass over wood core front door, that gets constant sun. It's stained to look like wood and coated in polyurethane. I only get a few months before it needs to be re coated. I've been using Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane. Does anyone have a suggestion for something that will hold up better and provide good sun protection? John Mitchell Shelton, CT From pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu Sun Aug 9 08:01:44 2009 From: pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 09:01:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] semi-OT Looking for Dranetz 626 power analyzer Message-ID: <4A7ED6C8.3000203@mail.utexas.edu> Anyone have a Dranetz 626 power analyzer? I need some information on the power supply in it. The magic smoke came out of a couple components and I am trying to figure out what they were. Thanks for the bandwidth. Peace, Pat From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 09:56:46 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:56:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Couple of good gluing tips In-Reply-To: <9435C19B537540E4A6C7039BD73E0CD3@KARL> References: <9435C19B537540E4A6C7039BD73E0CD3@KARL> Message-ID: <2400a5d40908100856v3a3fcd4eu321cae7858bbf22f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Karl Vacek wrote: > These just came through the MG-TABC list and looked really helpful, so I > thought I'd pass them on. I never considered the wet sanding technique to > avoid flash oxidation on aluminum, etc., but it sure makes sense. > > > > I certainly agree that moat hardware store epoxies aren't worth the goo in > the tubes!. For many years we had garage customers come by our sailing > hardware store looking for JB Weld or a sub. to close pinholes in gas tanks. > By & by we switched them over to W.E.S.T. epoxy as a better product. > Basically you clean leak pinhole with whatever, then force epoxy thru hole > (enlarging if necessary). This creates a "mushroom" head in tank that seems > to produce a reliable fix. The same technique can be used to patch pinholes > in air toys, rafts, etc. Only instead of using epoxy use 3M 5200 adhesive > sealant. Force it thru to make a mushroom head on inside of vinyl & you are > back in business. > WEST's stuff is great; however, it's very expensive, hard to find if you don't live somewhere they build boats (or airplanes) and I'm pretty sure the smallest size sold is a quart. There are other good epoxies available in smaller quantiies. Incidentally, the basic problem with the hardware store epoxies is that they're made to be easy to use. The ratio of resin to hardener in pure epoxy systems is an inconvenient number (about 2.3 parts resin to one part hardener; varies depending on which hardener in use, and whether it's spec as mass or volume). There are three basic ways to deal with the problem. First is just to live with it, which is what industrial users do. Second is a variation of method one, using special dispensers or packaging. WEST use special pumps that are calibrated (in theory...) to provide the right ratio. The third is to add a filler. Some of the best products use resin as a filler in the hardener (these are called "adduct epoxies"; they've got shorter pot life, faster curing, and less (or no) amine blush. There are any number of other possible additives. Some serve useful purposes (adding UV resistance, changing viscosity, pigments, mechanical properties (I use a metal filled epoxy for a number of things), suitability as a dessert topping), others are just there because they're cheap. Hardware store brands tend towards "there because they're cheaper than actual epoxy". -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sat Aug 15 20:16:58 2009 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:16:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare Message-ID: I am writing this from a hotel in Harrisburg, PA. My wife and I are driving her BMW 323 to Eastern Long Island and had a flat tire today. That isn't a big deal as we are close to needing new tires on the car anyway. I will probably just order a new set from TireRack and have them delivered to where we are staying. However, we still have 275 miles to our destination and the spare says not to exceed 50 MPH. I am not sure which is more dangerous: exceeding the maximum speed on the tire or driving 50 on the NJ Turnpike and Long Island Expressway. I assume the 50 MPH sticker on the tire is primarily there for liability protection. Does anyone know what a reasonable safe speed would be with this tire? I promise not to sue you if you are wrong. The spare is on the rear, assuming that makes a difference. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_syn c:082009 From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Aug 15 21:05:32 2009 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:05:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1470467333.167721250391932668.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Why not just get the flat fixed? Any decent 'service' station should be able to do it for less than $20. Even a plug is better than driving on a 'fake' spare, esp. on the freeway for 275mi. bs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Stone" To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 7:16:58 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare I am writing this from a hotel in Harrisburg, PA. My wife and I are driving her BMW 323 to Eastern Long Island and had a flat tire today. That isn't a big deal as we are close to needing new tires on the car anyway. I will probably just order a new set from TireRack and have them delivered to where we are staying. However, we still have 275 miles to our destination and the spare says not to exceed 50 MPH. I am not sure which is more dangerous: exceeding the maximum speed on the tire or driving 50 on the NJ Turnpike and Long Island Expressway. I assume the 50 MPH sticker on the tire is primarily there for liability protection. Does anyone know what a reasonable safe speed would be with this tire? I promise not to sue you if you are wrong. The spare is on the rear, assuming that makes a difference. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 21:10:22 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:10:22 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2400a5d40908152010h7e3b4ae8ua1fce8d6ece9edf9@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Jim Stone wrote: > I am writing this from a hotel in Harrisburg, PA. My wife and I are > driving > her BMW 323 to Eastern Long Island and had a flat tire today. That isn't a > big deal as we are close to needing new tires on the car anyway. I will > probably just order a new set from TireRack and have them delivered to > where > we are staying. However, we still have 275 miles to our destination and > the > spare says not to exceed 50 MPH. I am not sure which is more dangerous: > exceeding the maximum speed on the tire or driving 50 on the NJ Turnpike > and > Long Island Expressway. I assume the 50 MPH sticker on the tire is > primarily > there for liability protection. Does anyone know what a reasonable safe > speed > would be with this tire? I promise not to sue you if you are wrong. The > spare is on the rear, assuming that makes a difference. > Get the existing tire repaired, if you can. If not, get a new one. (Or a used one, and get new ones later. Or get two/four new ones in Harrisburg. I suspect they sell tires there. Even to fit BMWs.) The spare will have a speed rating. They're typically L (75 mph) or N (87 mph) rated. But you don't want to drive 275 miles on a limited service spare. Even if you think you do, you don't. And you probably wouldn't manage, if you tried it at highway speed. But, if you insist on driving on the donut, check the owners manual for instructions. It's quite possible that you have to do something to disable traction control, stability control or the like. Limited service spares are very often not the same diameter as a regular tire, which adversely effects such systems. (And general handling. ) Also follow the instructions on the sidewall: they typically restrict speed and distance. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From pethier at comcast.net Sat Aug 15 21:31:31 2009 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:31:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <561028383.13062531250393491971.JavaMail.root@sz0119a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> On a FWD car, I would say put the toy spare on the rear and do 50 MPH all the way in to your destination. On a BMW, not so much. Running with the spare on the rear will wear your differential. Running the spare on the front is pretty dangerous. I'd say repair the tire with a plug-patch. If you can't find someone to patch it, put a plug in the tire and run it on the rear and keep the speed down. Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L 1979 Caterham 7 1993 Suburban 1994 Miata C-package 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.4 http://www.triumphtransamerica.org.uk http://forum.mnautox.com/forums http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier ----- "Jim Stone" wrote: > From: "Jim Stone" > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:16:58 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare > > I am writing this from a hotel in Harrisburg, PA. My wife and I are > driving > her BMW 323 to Eastern Long Island and had a flat tire today. That > isn't a > big deal as we are close to needing new tires on the car anyway. I > will > probably just order a new set from TireRack and have them delivered to > where > we are staying. However, we still have 275 miles to our destination > and the > spare says not to exceed 50 MPH. I am not sure which is more > dangerous: > exceeding the maximum speed on the tire or driving 50 on the NJ > Turnpike and > Long Island Expressway. I assume the 50 MPH sticker on the tire is > primarily > there for liability protection. Does anyone know what a reasonable > safe speed > would be with this tire? I promise not to sue you if you are wrong. > The > spare is on the rear, assuming that makes a difference. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_syn > c:082009 > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pethier at comcast.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat Aug 15 22:15:55 2009 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:15:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8787FB.3050304@xxiii.com> Jim Stone wrote: > I am writing this from a hotel in Harrisburg, PA. My wife and I are driving > her BMW 323 to Eastern Long Island and had a flat tire today. That isn't a > big deal as we are close to needing new tires on the car anyway. I will > probably just order a new set from TireRack and have them delivered to where I read an article in Car&Driver probably 10+ years ago where they tested compact spares on a Corvette and talked to some tire engineers. Tests and the experts said they're really ok at full speed for a limited distance (like a few hundred) and the 'vette didn't handle all that badly (C&D thrashed it) considering its size. Now that is at full recommended pressure, which is usually 60 psi or so. Most people never check their spare, and if it's under that would be bad. I do agree with the other comment about not running one on the drive axle long term due to possible diff' wear. But if you have a hotel and some mobility, find an AutoZone or whatever and buy one of those inserter & plug patch kits, and fix the original. Those patches work great, but supposedly the tire's speed rating is lowered/invalidated. But you weren't really gonna drive 130mph home, right? Stuff a plug in the original, slap it back on and get them tars' when you're home. -Wayne From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Aug 15 22:51:20 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:51:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090816045120546.EKDV16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > Does anyone know what a reasonable safe speed > would be with this tire? I'll echo what others have said; if the puncture is repairable then just have a plug put in and drive it. As with other tires, the actual maximum speed probably depends on how much load it has on it, and how hot the air/road are. I have driven 100 miles at 70-75 mph on a "temporary use" compact spare, but it was a light car, a fairly cool day (for SoCA) and my suspension was probably stiff enough to unload the shorter tire an appreciable amount. Randall From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sun Aug 16 07:45:58 2009 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:45:58 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: <20090816045120546.EKDV16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> References: <20090816045120546.EKDV16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: Thanks Guys. I sent a note last night but think I forgot to copy all and it just went to whomever had sent the last message. Unfortunately, the original tire failed at 70 mph and I couldn't pull off the highway immediately, so it is completely trashed and repair is out of the question. I'm trying to see what is available around here today, but not many of the places seem open on Sunday and 225 45R 17 doesn't seem like something that is regularly stocked. The good news is that I checked the owner's manual this morning and while it says to replace the tire as soon as possible, it refers to the spare as a "space-saver tire" rather than a limited use one and doesnt' make any reference to a mileage limit. I may have no choice but to give it a try. I'll report back tomorrow. Jim > From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:51:20 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare > > > Does anyone know what a reasonable safe speed > > would be with this tire? > > I'll echo what others have said; if the puncture is repairable then just > have a plug put in and drive it. > > As with other tires, the actual maximum speed probably depends on how much > load it has on it, and how hot the air/road are. I have driven 100 miles at > 70-75 mph on a "temporary use" compact spare, but it was a light car, a > fairly cool day (for SoCA) and my suspension was probably stiff enough to > unload the shorter tire an appreciable amount. > > Randall > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as jandkstone99 at msn.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 08:19:41 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:19:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: References: <20090816045120546.EKDV16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40908160719v6f2b9657qe30092cbb9909f4c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > Thanks Guys. I sent a note last night but think I forgot to copy all and > it > just went to whomever had sent the last message. Unfortunately, the > original > tire failed at 70 mph and I couldn't pull off the highway immediately, so > it > is completely trashed and repair is out of the question. I'm trying to see > what is available around here today, but not many of the places seem open > on > Sunday and 225 45R 17 doesn't seem like something that is regularly > stocked. > The good news is that I checked the owner's manual this morning and while > it > says to replace the tire as soon as possible, it refers to the spare as a > "space-saver tire" rather than a limited use one and doesnt' make any > reference to a mileage limit. I may have no choice but to give it a try. > I'll report back tomorrow. > That's a size that sears usually stocks. 800 597 8007 is the national number. I don't know if they can check stock at local stores; if they can, they should be able to find one on your route. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Aug 16 08:21:45 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:21:45 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] gear vendor / laycock J-type od Message-ID: I was doing so research for adding a Gear Vendors over drive unit to our motorhome and found that they list it as a Laycock J-type overdrive. From what I have read it sounds like they bolt a J-type overdrive to an adapter for the TH400 transmission. This may sound like a dumb question but am I correct in thinking this would likely be the J-type used by Triumph with some possible mods done to it? Did they make more than one J-type? Brad From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Aug 16 08:23:10 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:23:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] gear vendor / laycock J-type od Message-ID: <4A88164E.6080204@141.com> I was doing so research for adding a Gear Vendors over drive unit to our motorhome and found that they list it as a Laycock J-type overdrive. From what I have read it sounds like they bolt a J-type overdrive to an adapter for the TH400 transmission. This may sound like a dumb question but am I correct in thinking this would likely be the J-type used by Triumph with some possible mods done to it? Did they make more than one J-type? From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 08:47:17 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:47:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40908160719v6f2b9657qe30092cbb9909f4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090816045120546.EKDV16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> <2400a5d40908160719v6f2b9657qe30092cbb9909f4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40908160747t8af79a9sef84ad90f780db6e@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:19 AM, David Scheidt wrote: > > > On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jim Stone wrote: > >> Thanks Guys. I sent a note last night but think I forgot to copy all and >> it >> just went to whomever had sent the last message. Unfortunately, the >> original >> tire failed at 70 mph and I couldn't pull off the highway immediately, so >> it >> is completely trashed and repair is out of the question. I'm trying to >> see >> what is available around here today, but not many of the places seem open >> on >> Sunday and 225 45R 17 doesn't seem like something that is regularly >> stocked. >> The good news is that I checked the owner's manual this morning and while >> it >> says to replace the tire as soon as possible, it refers to the spare as a >> "space-saver tire" rather than a limited use one and doesnt' make any >> reference to a mileage limit. I may have no choice but to give it a try. >> I'll report back tomorrow. >> > > That's a size that sears usually stocks. 800 597 8007 is the national > number. I don't know if they can check stock at local stores; if they can, > they should be able to find one on your route. > Also, VW, Audi and Saab use this size on late model cars. I think Ford might as well. Don't forget to try dealers. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From strovato at optonline.net Sun Aug 16 09:05:38 2009 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:05:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: References: <20090816045120546.EKDV16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <0KOH00GNM5XGHF10@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Always wondered about the "limited use" spares that say to use for a maximum of 50 miles. When you're done, do you put it back in your trunk and it's good for another 50 miles? Is it just a matter of letting it cool down, or do they think the thing is consumed and needs to be replaced at that point? Or maybe they are saying that your car can probably handle 50 miles of mismatched sizes before the differential or whatever fails. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Aug 16 10:11:09 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:11:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: <0KOH00GNM5XGHF10@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <20090816161107941.JZSB16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > Or maybe they are saying that > your car can probably handle 50 miles of mismatched sizes before the > differential or whatever fails. I think that's the point, though perhaps 'fails' isn't the right word. Maybe more like 'overheats' or 'suffers damage'. Randall From jandkstone99 at msn.com Sun Aug 16 11:56:01 2009 From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (Jim Stone) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:56:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: <536653.99821.qm@web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <536653.99821.qm@web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, here's a final update from the road. I made a few calls this morning and found a Sam's near Reading that had some reasonably well rated Goodyear all-season tires in stock. We just had them installed and are back on the road again. I am still not sure how long I could have driven on the spare (I probably should have titled this message "Maximum speed with a space-saver spare") but know better than to ignore the advice of this group. So, thanks for stopping me from doing something stupid. We lost an afternoon at the beach, but it could have been much worse. Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:14:28 -0700 From: aztvr at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare To: jandkstone99 at msn.com Really, the way to look at it is, what's the worst that could happen if it fails at 65-70 mph on a crowded road? Don't forget that you are making this decision for all of those people and their families on the road in close proximity to you. --- On Sat, 8/15/09, Jim Stone wrote: From: Jim Stone Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 7:16 PM I am writing this from a hotel in Harrisburg, PA. My wife and I are driving her BMW 323 to Eastern Long Island and had a flat tire today. That isn't a big deal as we are close to needing new tires on the car anyway. I will probably just order a new set from TireRack and have them delivered to where we are staying. However, we still have 275 miles to our destination and the spare says not to exceed 50 MPH. I am not sure which is more dangerous: exceeding the maximum speed on the tire or driving 50 on the NJ Turnpike and Long Island Expressway. I assume the 50 MPH sticker on the tire is primarily there for liability protection. Does anyone know what a reasonable safe speed would be with this tire? I promise not to sue you if you are wrong. The spare is on the rear, assuming that makes a difference. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=PID23384::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:NF_BR_syn c:082009 You are subscribed as aztvr at yahoo.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON: WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 From racertod at racertodd.com Sun Aug 16 13:09:42 2009 From: racertod at racertodd.com (Todd Walke) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:09:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Maximum speed with a limited use spare In-Reply-To: <0KOH00GNM5XGHF10@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <20090816045120546.EKDV16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090816115259.00bbf008@mail.blarg.net> Steven wrote: >Always wondered about the "limited use" spares that say to use for a >maximum of 50 miles. When you're done, do you put it back in your trunk >and it's good for another 50 miles? Is it just a matter of letting it >cool down, or do they think the thing is consumed and needs to be replaced >at that point? Or maybe they are saying that your car can probably handle >50 miles of mismatched sizes before the differential or whatever fails. Temporary spares have treadwear bars just like regular tires. You can use them until the tread is gone. I think the 50mph/50mile limit is there for a couple of reasons. The temps are smaller, so they'll run hotter than the regular tires. They will negatively affect ABS, traction control, limited slips, differentials and AWD systems, so they want to limit the usage of the spare. I think the main reason is psychological. The manufacturers don't want you to just throw on the temp and go driving around forever on it. The speed and mileage limit encourages you to get the flat repaired/replaced pronto. Car guys like us would fix the flat as soon as possible because we know what is good for our cars, but the great unwashed non-car-nut masses probably wouldn't. Todd Seattle,WA '86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car) 270,000 miles '01 Golf TDI, silver. (new work car) 212,000 miles '87 Golf, Polar Silver. (retired work car) 654,000 miles <- Gone to a new home :( http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff From brad.kahler at 141.com Sun Aug 16 14:24:58 2009 From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:24:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] gear vendor / laycock J-type od Message-ID: <4A886B1A.109@141.com> I think I answered my own question. It sounds like they up rated the output shaft to 1-3/8" and possibly extended the tail shaft housing. Oh well.... From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sun Aug 16 15:05:13 2009 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:05:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] carpenter bees eating my shop Message-ID: the carpenter bees have ruined my fascia board on the garage/shop ... I'm going to replace them soon and wondering if any insect treatment will prevent this... or a different wood instead of spruce ??? how about the new synthetic wood ??? any suggestions.... thanks John I used to be funny, and perhaps I'm not anymore. It may be that I have become rather grumpy because I've seen so many things that have offended me that I cannot deal with in terms of laughter. ~ Kurt Vonnegut From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Sun Aug 16 15:15:24 2009 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:15:24 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] carpenter bees eating my shop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00F5B5B68B9A47F590FF759B21AD84FF@Digilink1> Fill the holes with epoxy....your shop will be stronger than it ever was and they will not re-drill the epoxy.....;-) -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of john niolon Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:05 PM To: shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] carpenter bees eating my shop the carpenter bees have ruined my fascia board on the garage/shop ... I'm going to replace them soon and wondering if any insect treatment will prevent this... or a different wood instead of spruce ??? how about the new synthetic wood ??? any suggestions.... thanks John I used to be funny, and perhaps I'm not anymore. It may be that I have become rather grumpy because I've seen so many things that have offended me that I cannot deal with in terms of laughter. ~ Kurt Vonnegut You are subscribed as gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Aug 16 15:57:08 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:57:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] gear vendor / laycock J-type od In-Reply-To: <4A88164E.6080204@141.com> Message-ID: <20090816215709249.QIPF16591@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > This may sound like a dumb question but am I correct in thinking this > would likely be the J-type used by Triumph with some possible mods done > to it? Yup, basically the same unit. > Did they make more than one J-type? Definitely. There were even minor variations among Triumphs, but Volvos (for example) have a considerably different (and simpler) pressure relief valve. Different ratios too, at least in some cases. I've also got an adapter casing somewhere that I've never identified. However, Gear Vendors is actually making them now, having originally been licensed and more recently bought the rights from GKN, who bought out Laycock back in the 70s. http://www.gearvendors.com/about.html Randall From pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu Sun Aug 16 16:48:30 2009 From: pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:48:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] carpenter bees eating my shop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A888CBE.8030106@mail.utexas.edu> John, You didn't say what size the trim material is on your shop, but there are any number of brands of fascia material that is made partly of concrete and milk jugs. Hardie, and Certainteed each make trim material that is 3/4" thick, and comes in 4", 6" (and 8"I think) widths. You will probably have to pre-drill the nail holes, but it works great. My shop is sided with the Hardie material, and all the window, door and corner trim is also from Hardie. I went with pine for the fascia though, but I can't remember why I went that way, probably because I was looking for something 1.5" thick, which Hardie didn't/doesn't make. Peace, Pat Thusly spake john niolon, On 8/16/2009 4:05 PM: > the carpenter bees have ruined my fascia board on the garage/shop ... I'm > going to replace them soon and wondering if any insect treatment will > prevent this... or a different wood instead of spruce ??? how about the new > synthetic wood ??? > > any suggestions.... > > thanks > John > > > I used to be funny, and perhaps I'm not anymore. > It may be that I have become rather grumpy > because I've seen so many things that have > offended me that I cannot deal with in terms of laughter. > > ~ Kurt Vonnegut > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as pjhorne at mail.utexas.edu > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From cavanadd at verizon.net Sun Aug 16 16:59:05 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:59:05 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] carpenter bees eating my shop In-Reply-To: <4A888CBE.8030106@mail.utexas.edu> References: <4A888CBE.8030106@mail.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <4A888F39.7040800@verizon.net> My front deck is made with Timber Tech fake lumber. It's six or seven years old, no problems at all. The stuff comes in 2X sizes decking and 1x sizes for trim, fascias, etc. I don't think you can paint it, though since it's mostly plastic. Pat Horne wrote: > Thusly spake john niolon, On 8/16/2009 4:05 PM: >> the carpenter bees have ruined my fascia board on the garage/shop ... >> I'm going to replace them soon and wondering if any insect treatment >> will prevent this... or a different wood instead of spruce ??? how >> about the new synthetic wood ??? From mbarre at juno.com Sun Aug 16 18:25:41 2009 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:25:41 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] carpenter bees eating my shop Message-ID: <20090816.202541.20037.0@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> Gerald may be onto a really good solution with the epoxy. If you go with replacement, I am a big fan of Hardie cementboard. Matt John wrote: the carpenter bees have ruined my fascia... any suggestions.... ____________________________________________________________ Turn life into a beach with a new sandbox. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGaFLQacLWRpOGYtoZkGUSE3wXA jaeb326QZeLu0I6qxVZFaanUoY/ From cak at dimebank.com Sun Aug 16 19:30:19 2009 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] carpenter bees eating my shop Message-ID: <200908170130.n7H1UJEx016427@moose.dimebank.com> > Gerald may be onto a really good solution with the epoxy. check out rotdoctor.com ... From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 19 07:16:30 2009 From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers Message-ID: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am in need of a pressure washer and am looking for suggestions. What I have in mind so far, just to give you an idea of the size I had in mind, is a 3800 psi 4 gpm minimum. I have been eying the Dewalt GX390 for 999.00 at HD. It's portable enough to get around but yet powerful. My research so far tells me you need at least a 4gpm minimum to move the grease, a separate pump as opposed to one the engine sits on and either a Honda or Briggs motor. It will be used mainly for cleaning side walks and degreasing cars and tractors, Thanks for the advice. Frank V. rustymetal at sbcglobal.net From battmain at yahoo.com Wed Aug 19 08:07:17 2009 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers In-Reply-To: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <250976.12715.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> A 3800 should work well for the sidewalk. I got a 3000psi to work on the sidewalk mildew. The mildew turns the sidewalk black. I got five nozzles with mine. The one that works best for everything is the turbo rotating nozzle. Same nozzle worked well for removing the paint on the house.The other nozzles just use up fuel and annoy me. :) The lower psi pressure washers that I borrowed didn't work for me. Degreasing also works good, but for the grime that's been sitting a while, a steam cleaner works much better. You're going to get a lot of splash back when working in the engine compartment even at the lower pressure settings. Cost for the unit was around $500 at Lowes years ago. Mine is very noisy. I use ear plugs, real goggles instead of my glasses only and a dust mask for the water spray. Look like a nerd but, safey first. Amazing what it can do the asphalt driveway if I'm not paying attention. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Frank Vantacich To: Shop Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:16:30 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers I am in need of a pressure washer and am looking for suggestions. What I have in mind so far, just to give you an idea of the size I had in mind, is a 3800 psi 4 gpm minimum. I have been eying the Dewalt GX390 for 999.00 at HD. It's portable enough to get around but yet powerful. My research so far tells me you need at least a 4gpm minimum to move the grease, a separate pump as opposed to one the engine sits on and either a Honda or Briggs motor. It will be used mainly for cleaning side walks and degreasing cars and tractors, Thanks for the advice. (snip) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 08:13:56 2009 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:13:56 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers In-Reply-To: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40908190713w37c6ec17v4da8f15e94bace68@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Frank Vantacich wrote: > I am in need of a pressure washer and am looking for suggestions. What I > have > in mind so far, just to give you an idea of the size I had in mind, is a > 3800 > psi 4 gpm minimum. I have been eying the Dewalt GX390 for 999.00 at HD. > It's > portable enough to get around but yet powerful. My research so far tells > me > you need at least a 4gpm minimum to move the grease, a separate pump as > opposed to one the engine sits on and either a Honda or Briggs motor. It > will be used mainly for cleaning side walks and degreasing cars and > tractors, > For degreasing, heat works a lot better than pure pressure. Heat and soap work even better. You also need to consider what you're going to do with the rinsate. Letting it run down the sanitary sewer isn't a good idea; a storm sewer is worse. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From eabb at loc.gov Wed Aug 19 08:18:14 2009 From: eabb at loc.gov (Eugene D Abbondelo) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:18:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers In-Reply-To: <250976.12715.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <250976.12715.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A8BD1660200007400076FE3@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Would this work to clean up old engine oil stains from concrete? None of the products available from the usual hardware stores (Lowes, etc.) seem to work. I was thinking of renting and trying a power washer. Gene >>> Battmain 8/19/2009 10:07 AM >>> A 3800 should work well for the sidewalk. I got a 3000psi to work on the sidewalk mildew. The mildew turns the sidewalk black. I got five nozzles with mine. The one that works best for everything is the turbo rotating nozzle. Same nozzle worked well for removing the paint on the house.The other nozzles just use up fuel and annoy me. :) The lower psi pressure washers that I borrowed didn't work for me. Degreasing also works good, but for the grime that's been sitting a while, a steam cleaner works much better. You're going to get a lot of splash back when working in the engine compartment even at the lower pressure settings. Cost for the unit was around $500 at Lowes years ago. Mine is very noisy. I use ear plugs, real goggles instead of my glasses only and a dust mask for the water spray. Look like a nerd but, safey first. Amazing what it can do the asphalt driveway if I'm not paying attention. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Frank Vantacich To: Shop Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:16:30 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers I am in need of a pressure washer and am looking for suggestions. What I have in mind so far, just to give you an idea of the size I had in mind, is a 3800 psi 4 gpm minimum. I have been eying the Dewalt GX390 for 999.00 at HD. It's portable enough to get around but yet powerful. My research so far tells me you need at least a 4gpm minimum to move the grease, a separate pump as opposed to one the engine sits on and either a Honda or Briggs motor. It will be used mainly for cleaning side walks and degreasing cars and tractors, Thanks for the advice. (snip) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com You are subscribed as eabb at loc.gov Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From battmain at yahoo.com Wed Aug 19 08:33:28 2009 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers In-Reply-To: <4A8BD1660200007400076FE3@ntgwgate.loc.gov> References: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <250976.12715.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4A8BD1660200007400076FE3@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <965380.28671.qm@web57005.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Yes and No. It really depends on your particular situation and the concrete itself. On asphalt where I've screwed up when changing the oil, it works ok, and it's probably because it is harder to see the oil sheen on the black asphalt. On concrete, like on my patio where I've had sythetic oil spill from a broken bottle, it works too, but the nozzle has to be left on the spot for a while. I've used the highest setting with no damage to the concreate itself, but the stucco on the wall was like butter in comparison. After cleaning, there was a slight stain, but much less visible than what it was. I have not painted the concrete yet, but it is on my list of things to do. As mentioned before, for grease, a steam cleaner is much better. Best I can offer is to try it. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Eugene D Abbondelo To: shoptalk ; Battmain Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:18:14 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pressure washers Would this work to clean up old engine oil stains from concrete? None of the products available from the usual hardware stores (Lowes, etc.) seem to work. I was thinking of renting and trying a power washer. Gene (snip, snip) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Gil.Fuqua at cci-ir.com Wed Aug 19 08:33:45 2009 From: Gil.Fuqua at cci-ir.com (Gil Fuqua) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:33:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers In-Reply-To: <250976.12715.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <250976.12715.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15C2B55292D4494EAAB4557F5BCEC0D201CEAFA2@bnaexg01.cci-ir.com> My experience with pressure washers is bigger is better. Look closely at the GPM rate of the pump in addition to pressure. It takes both to clean off built up gunk. The best money I spent was on a rotating nozzle. There is no comparison to how well it does versus the straight nozzles. I bought my nozzle at Northern Tool and it was about $100 for the nozzle alone. Not only does it do a better job in cleaning, it is also faster than the straight nozzles. You might also check with Northern for a pressure washer. They have a very wide selection and I would recommend one with a Honda engine and CAT pump. They are industry standards and you can get replacement parts for both the engine and pump. I had a Karcher pump with a 10hp Honda and the pump failed. I replaced it with a CAT pump and have been very pleased with its performance. Gil Fuqua Nashville. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Battmain Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:07 AM To: shoptalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] pressure washers A 3800 should work well for the sidewalk. I got a 3000psi to work on the sidewalk mildew. The mildew turns the sidewalk black. I got five nozzles with mine. The one that works best for everything is the turbo rotating nozzle. Same nozzle worked well for removing the paint on the house.The other nozzles just use up fuel and annoy me. :) The lower psi pressure washers that I borrowed didn't work for me. Degreasing also works good, but for the grime that's been sitting a while, a steam cleaner works much better. You're going to get a lot of splash back when working in the engine compartment even at the lower pressure settings. Cost for the unit was around $500 at Lowes years ago. Mine is very noisy. I use ear plugs, real goggles instead of my glasses only and a dust mask for the water spray. Look like a nerd but, safey first. Amazing what it can do the asphalt driveway if I'm not paying attention. Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Frank Vantacich To: Shop Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:16:30 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers I am in need of a pressure washer and am looking for suggestions. What I have in mind so far, just to give you an idea of the size I had in mind, is a 3800 psi 4 gpm minimum. I have been eying the Dewalt GX390 for 999.00 at HD. It's portable enough to get around but yet powerful. My research so far tells me you need at least a 4gpm minimum to move the grease, a separate pump as opposed to one the engine sits on and either a Honda or Briggs motor. It will be used mainly for cleaning side walks and degreasing cars and tractors, Thanks for the advice. (snip) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com You are subscribed as gil.fuqua at cci-ir.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Aug 19 08:54:12 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:54:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers In-Reply-To: <15C2B55292D4494EAAB4557F5BCEC0D201CEAFA2@bnaexg01.cci-ir.com> Message-ID: <20090819145412834.NKEU29812@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> > Look closely > at the GPM rate of the pump in addition to pressure. It takes both to > clean off built up gunk. Just curious ... in looking at the referenced DeWalt model; I note that the specifications never say "psi at gpm" but rather quote "maximum" psi and "maximum" gpm without giving conditions for either. I know from experience that my puny little pressure washer (rated 2 gpm @ 2100 psi) will flow much more water at lower pressure (open up the nozzle) and likely would produce even more pressure at lower flow (if I were to screw down the unloader valve). It also seems odd that the DeWalt quotes less than twice the horsepower, but almost 4 times the gpm times psi. Do those ratings actually mean something, or are they like air compressor "hp"? Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Aug 19 08:59:18 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:59:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers In-Reply-To: <4A8BD1660200007400076FE3@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <20090819145918483.VFBG8845@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> > Would this work to clean up old engine oil stains from concrete? None of > the > products available from the usual hardware stores (Lowes, etc.) seem to > work. Best thing I have found is plain old clay cat litter. Spread it over the stain, then stomp and grind it into the floor with your shoes. Let it sit overnight and sweep up the excess. Not sure how much it actually removes as opposed to just hiding, but the result looks good. Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Aug 19 09:34:20 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:34:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washers References: <329044.14331.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com><250976.12715.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4A8BD1660200007400076FE3@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Message-ID: <69AD61C78BBA4891BF87D020A3C5A7C2@KARL> Try Pour-n-Restore. Not cheap, but HF carries it cheaper than anyone else. It works. Karl > Would this work to clean up old engine oil stains from concrete? None of > the > products available from the usual hardware stores (Lowes, etc.) seem to > work. > I was thinking of renting and trying a power washer. > > Gene From eric at megageek.com Sat Aug 22 09:34:18 2009 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:34:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable requirements Message-ID: OK, I want to add electricity to an outbuilding. I was thinking 60amp circuit (just enough for lights, a few plugs for chargers, and maybe a garage door opener in the future.) Here is the set up. My shop has 200amp service. The service panel is on the exact opposite side of the building as the new building. So I would have about a 50' run, inside the existing shop, then a 65' run of buried cable to the new building. A few questions... One, what gauge wire do I need to run? Should I do direct bury wire or conduit? Am I missing anything? Moose Everything I know about knots, I learned from Alexander the Great. From cavanadd at verizon.net Sat Aug 22 11:32:13 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:32:13 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable requirements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A902B9D.8090507@verizon.net> Here's a couple of answers, but I'm not an electrician, engineer, code official or anything like that. According to an on-line ampacity chart (it's on the Internet so it must be true):> http://www.cerrowire.com/default.aspx?id=46 #6 NM or UF is good for 55 amps, and #4 is good for 70. What I would probably do is run #6 UF for the entire circuit since it's rated for direct burial, and install a 40 or 50 amp panel. In my previous house I had a detached garage/shop which I ran off a subpanel from my pump house, which was subpaneled from my house. The servcice to the shop was installed by a local electrical contractor. The garage/shop had a 40 amp panel. I ran the lights, two garage door openers, a 220 volt contractor's table saw, an old Craftsman 220 compressor and other tools and never popped a breaker. Dave C eric at megageek.com wrote: > OK, I want to add electricity to an outbuilding. > > I was thinking 60amp circuit (just enough for lights, a few plugs for > chargers, and maybe a garage door opener in the future.) > > Here is the set up. My shop has 200amp service. The service panel is on > the exact opposite side of the building as the new building. So I would > have about a 50' run, inside the existing shop, then a 65' run of buried > cable to the new building. > > A few questions... > > One, what gauge wire do I need to run? > > Should I do direct bury wire or conduit? > > Am I missing anything? > > Moose > Everything I know about knots, I learned from Alexander the Great. > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From halfnights at shaw.ca Sat Aug 22 13:59:58 2009 From: halfnights at shaw.ca (Art Halfnights) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:59:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical supply Message-ID: <001101ca2363$20b72b50$f39701ae@home> Hello run a 220 V line across the house to a subpanel then 220 or if not needed 110 burial to the shed. 220 uses a smaller wire less cost and its ready for what ever next. Art From bjzwissler at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 14:52:31 2009 From: bjzwissler at gmail.com (Ben Zwissler) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:52:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable requirements In-Reply-To: <4A902B9D.8090507@verizon.net> References: <4A902B9D.8090507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4A905A8F.6070001@gmail.com> Yes, but ampacity is the amp carrying capacity without considering voltage drop. Considering voltage drop and buried/conduit the chart in my 20 year old "Wiring Simplified 34th Ed" says you need #4 for 60 amp 220 and a one way distance of more than 95 feet to less than 150 feet. If you go smaller, the wire will be OK but you'll have larger voltage drop than recommended. Same disclaimer, not an electrician, just reading from my book..... Ben..... Ben Zwissler bjzwissler at gmail.com Columbus, IN 1966 Triumph TR4A 1973 MG Midget 1980 Triumph TR8 2007 Mazda RX8 2002 Yamaha FZ1 2003 Honda ST1300 On 8/22/2009 1:32 PM, David C. wrote: > Here's a couple of answers, but I'm not an electrician, engineer, code > official or anything like that. > > According to an on-line ampacity chart (it's on the Internet so it > must be true):> http://www.cerrowire.com/default.aspx?id=46 > > #6 NM or UF is good for 55 amps, and #4 is good for 70. What I > would probably do is run #6 UF for the entire circuit since it's rated > for direct burial, and install a 40 or 50 amp panel. In my previous > house I had a detached garage/shop which I ran off a subpanel from my > pump house, which was subpaneled from my house. The servcice to the > shop was installed by a local electrical contractor. The garage/shop > had a 40 amp panel. I ran the lights, two garage door openers, a 220 > volt contractor's table saw, an old Craftsman 220 compressor and other > tools and never popped a breaker. > > Dave C > > eric at megageek.com wrote: >> OK, I want to add electricity to an outbuilding. >> >> I was thinking 60amp circuit (just enough for lights, a few plugs for >> chargers, and maybe a garage door opener in the future.) >> >> Here is the set up. My shop has 200amp service. The service panel >> is on >> the exact opposite side of the building as the new building. So I would >> have about a 50' run, inside the existing shop, then a 65' run of buried >> cable to the new building. >> >> A few questions... >> >> One, what gauge wire do I need to run? >> >> Should I do direct bury wire or conduit? >> >> Am I missing anything? >> >> Moose >> Everything I know about knots, I learned from Alexander the Great. >> _______________________________________________ >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >> You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net >> >> Shop-talk mailing list >> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk >> >> http://www.team.net/archive > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as bjzwissler at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From kvacek at ameritech.net Sat Aug 22 20:01:10 2009 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:01:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cable requirements References: <4A902B9D.8090507@verizon.net> <4A905A8F.6070001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8FE0E568F4A042C5B86E9C489835702E@KARL> Just one other thought - the job is no more difficult with a little heavier wire and a bigger panel. A little money spent on heavier wire will give you better voltage now and may make the difference in enabling you to do something else later. If some's good - more is better ;-) Karl From mark at bradakis.com Sat Aug 22 23:23:15 2009 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:23:15 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] List interruption Message-ID: <20090823052315.381FE2E0B1@bradakis.com> First off, let me say thanks to those who have recently contributed to the continued running of Team.Net - I do appreciate it. I think I have all the AOL folks back on the list as before. If you're an AOL subscriber and you didn't get this email, let me know ;-) Monday, August 24, the local power company will be doing some work in my neighborhood. Power may be off here at the house for several hours. I'll be shutting down the servers that morning, and they could be off until later that afternoon. So if you send off a message and don't see it for a while, or you can't get to the archives or forums, be patient, things will get back to normal. mjb. From scott.hall at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 05:50:15 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:50:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue Message-ID: <1041401126.3437331251201015529.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> the engine's a 5.5 hp honda ohv knockoff from pepboys. cheng kang, or something. it's an a go-kart. couldn't help it, it was damn near free. because it didn't run. ah, but it didn't run because the dpo left it sitting so long the gas went...I don't know what. I've never actually seen the inside of a carb look like that. the jets were plugged solid and the gas in the tank was green. I mean, I've seen lots of bad gas...but never that shade of green. so clean out the jets, new gas, it fires! I needed a win after the pool. :-) come to think of it, the gas was the same shade as the pool is far too often... so it starts and runs...but it runs with an 'oscillation', I guess is how I'd describe it. if you hold the throttle pedal down, it won't maintain a steady rpm. up and down at a fairly frequent pattern. there's an actuating rod attached to what I think is the throttle plate in the carb (there are two butterfly plates in the carb--the choke and the plate to which this rod is attached). this rod runs under the gas tank and is attached to the motor in some fashion (can't seem and wouldn't understand it anyway, so didn't remove the tank). this rod is moving back and forth at the same periodicity as the engine rpm oscillation. clearly, that's what's causing it. anybody know what that rod is, and what it's doing? some sort of constant velocity setup? then there's a spring installed outside/over this same rod (the rod is running through the center of the spring). one end of the spring attaches to the 'throttle plate' (?) cam right next to the rod. the other end was attached to nothing when I got it, but judging by its length should attach under the tank somewhere. anybody know what this spring is supposed to be doing? some sort of dampener? I can't fit my fingers in to pull the spring, but I can hold that rod still, and when I do, it runs fine. so...I was hoping for a guess as to what that spring might be doing, which might help when I take off the tank and try to figure out where to attach it. or a description of what that rod is and what it's doing. or, if you know exactly what to do, that'd be cool too. pep boys apparently sells a different brand of these each week and there are no identifying markings on it to google the maker. it just looks a lot like my honda mower engine turned upright. thanks in advance. scott From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 25 06:20:12 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:20:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <1041401126.3437331251201015529.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090825122012358.YUJN6799@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > anybody know what that rod is, and what it's doing? some sort of constant > velocity setup? Yup, sounds like a standard small engine governor. Supposed to hold the rpm relatively constant, regardless of load. The end at the motor would be some sort of mechanism that pulls (or pushes) harder according to how fast the engine is turning; some of them are a simple as a plastic flapper in the breeze created by the fan blades on the flywheel. But for a 5.5hp, I'd expect flying weights of some sort, probably inside a housing. > anybody know what this spring is supposed to be > doing? some sort of dampener? My guess would be that it opposes the action of the governor. Might even have originally been linked to the "throttle" control. Putting some force on the spring might be all that is needed to make it settle out; but more likely IMO something is sticky and needs to be cleaned. > if you know exactly what to do, If it's for a go-kart, I'd probably just abandon the governor altogether and link the pedal directly to the throttle (with some sort of mechanism so the pedal can move farther than the little throttle disc). Governors are great for constant speed applications (like mowers), but not so much for a vehicle where the speed varies. Randall From jamesf at groupwbench.org Tue Aug 25 06:29:41 2009 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:29:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <1041401126.3437331251201015529.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1041401126.3437331251201015529.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <96E08EF3-50CB-4960-BD63-A616BB50404C@groupwbench.org> On Aug 25, 2009, at 7:50 AM, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > > so it starts and runs...but it runs with an 'oscillation', I guess > is how I'd describe it. if you hold the throttle pedal down, it > won't maintain a steady rpm. up and down at a fairly frequent > pattern. there's an actuating rod attached to what I think is the > throttle plate in the carb (there are two butterfly plates in the > carb--the choke and the plate to which this rod is attached). this > rod runs under the gas tank and is attached to the motor in some > fashion (can't seem and wouldn't understand it anyway, so didn't > remove the tank). this rod is moving back and forth at the same > periodicity as the engine rpm oscillation. clearly, that's what's > causing it. > > anybody know what that rod is, and what it's doing? some sort of > constant velocity setup? That's the governor. It takes engine speed (usually from the air coming off the cooling fins on the flywheel acting on a vane, or by a connection into the crankcase) and limits it by being directly connected to the throttle. The spring is the connection between the gas pedal, turtle/rabbit handle, etc and the carburetor. It takes the operator's requested speed and suggests it to the carburetor. When the engine speeds up the governor acts against the spring to throttle back to a pre-set maximum (either for lawnmower blade speed federal maximums, or connecting rod integrity). Do not mess with this if you do not understand it, and certainly, once you understand it, do not adjust/defeat the governor to allow a higher speed than they set it up for ;-) What I believe is happening is your idle circuit isn't working, still plugged up. When the engine starts to stall, the governor has less wind acting on it so the throttle starts to open, activating the main circuit which runs just fine. Engine speeds up, throttle closes, no more gas, engine slows down, throttle opens, repeat. You need to clean out the idle circuit. It's too small to get in there with mechanical means without scoring it, so you'll need to use chemical means, soaking the carb for a day or two. A gallon of Berryman's is $30 or so, but my favorite is Yamaha carb cleaner in the black one liter bottle if you have a dealer nearby. Follow the directions on the Yamaha stuff, though I have also used it in teh gas tank and let it burn through with no ill effects. jim From battmain at yahoo.com Tue Aug 25 06:57:52 2009 From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <1041401126.3437331251201015529.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1041401126.3437331251201015529.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <332740.2260.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> On the engine itself, find the model number, usually stamped somewhere on the muffler or close to it. Google the model number for the parts list. Depending on how handy you are, you can take the carb apart, the bowl portion, and replace the needle valve seat and the needle valve itself. That will help fix the mixture problem. The oscillation is caused by mixture fluctuations. As mentioned, the spring is connected to the governer. Usually it is just a secondary flap in the air intake. When you remove the carb assembly, you can see how it works. It is possible to temporarily bypass it for testing, but monitor the throttle slider as you can overspeed the engine. I've had multiple small engines with this issue and replacing the carb parts resolved the oscillation problem. On a few, when I was lazy I zip tied the governor so I could get stuff done. :) Brian battmain at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "scott.hall at comcast.net" To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:50:15 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue so it starts and runs...but it runs with an 'oscillation', I guess is how I'd describe it. if you hold the throttle pedal down, it won't maintain a steady rpm. up and down at a fairly frequent pattern. there's an actuating rod attached to what I think is the throttle plate in the carb (there are two butterfly plates in the carb--the choke and the plate to which this rod is attached). this rod runs under the gas tank and is attached to the motor in some fashion (can't seem and wouldn't understand it anyway, so didn't remove the tank). this rod is moving back and forth at the same periodicity as the engine rpm oscillation. clearly, that's what's causing it. (snip) (snip) From scott.hall at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 07:00:47 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:00:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <1028931601.3464951251204729852.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <14772760.3469701251205247872.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> right, so I'm a genius. it's THIS engine. I mean, the only thing missing are the honda identifying stickers. those chinese are getting really, really good at copying stuff. http://www2.northerntool.com/engines/honda-horizontal/item-6059.htm actually, honda seems to have several different models in that line, but the one on the cart at least *looks* just like that one. anyhow, it'll idle, or almost, anyway. I got it to idle last night, it's just that the low part of the period sometimes coincided with 'engine off'. and if it does have an idle circuit, where might it be? I cleaned every hole I saw in that carb, but maybe I missed one. I assume it's either to do with the spring not being hooked up or the governor itself is messed up, because it does it at all rpm ranges. at wot it just goes from wot to slightly lower and back, etc. if it's used to maintain a fairly constant engine speed, well...like randall said, why do I want that? I can just scrap the whole assembly and hook the throttle cable from the pedal to the carb plate? or does it actually run better (or only) with that thing on there? now that you guys mention it, the cable isn't hooked up to the throttle plate at all. like you said, it seems to be 'suggesting' a speed. well, that's no fun in a cart. I also love the yamaha stuff. I've brought back two rds from the dead with that stuff. thanks guys. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Franklin" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:29:41 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue On Aug 25, 2009, at 7:50 AM, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: That's the governor. It takes engine speed (usually from the air coming off the cooling fins on the flywheel acting on a vane, or by a connection into the crankcase) and limits it by being directly connected to the throttle. The spring is the connection between the gas pedal, turtle/rabbit handle, etc and the carburetor. It takes the operator's requested speed and suggests it to the carburetor. When the engine speeds up the governor acts against the spring to throttle back to a pre-set maximum (either for lawnmower blade speed federal maximums, or connecting rod integrity). Do not mess with this if you do not understand it, and certainly, once you understand it, do not adjust/defeat the governor to allow a higher speed than they set it up for ;-) What I believe is happening is your idle circuit isn't working, still plugged up. When the engine starts to stall, the governor has less wind acting on it so the throttle starts to open, activating the main circuit which runs just fine. Engine speeds up, throttle closes, no more gas, engine slows down, throttle opens, repeat. You need to clean out the idle circuit. It's too small to get in there with mechanical means without scoring it, so you'll need to use chemical means, soaking the carb for a day or two. A gallon of Berryman's is $30 or so, but my favorite is Yamaha carb cleaner in the black one liter bottle if you have a dealer nearby. Follow the directions on the Yamaha stuff, though I have also used it in teh gas tank and let it burn through with no ill effects. From jamesf at groupwbench.org Tue Aug 25 07:41:31 2009 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:41:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <14772760.3469701251205247872.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <14772760.3469701251205247872.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1F23BB58-ABB5-4067-8520-CE8B36149333@groupwbench.org> On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:00 AM, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > > if it's used to maintain a fairly constant engine speed, well...like > randall said, why do I want that? I can just scrap the whole > assembly and hook the throttle cable from the pedal to the carb > plate? or does it actually run better (or only) with that thing on > there? now that you guys mention it, the cable isn't hooked up to > the throttle plate at all. like you said, it seems to be > 'suggesting' a speed. well, that's no fun in a cart. It'll be crisper with a direct connection and should run just fine. Depending on the carb size, it may bog slightly if you floor it too fast; the governor damps that action a bit. Worst that can happen is you blow the motor, or run the cable incorrectly and the throttle sticks and you plow into a wall. jim From scott.hall at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 18:24:16 2009 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:24:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <1F23BB58-ABB5-4067-8520-CE8B36149333@groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <912819699.3816411251246256127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> alright, I got it running by taking it more-or-less apart and guessing as to which hole the governor's spring went into. that thing is a death trap. my son and I love it. but it's still doing the rpm oscillation. so basically, I fangle a way to connect the throttle cable to the butterfly in the carb throat (where the governor is currently connected)? and then I can remove the associated governor parts? I ask like that because whatever's driving the governor is deep in the case. I don't know that I'd take it apart to get the stuff out of there, so I can just remove the lever that attaches to the throttle butterfly and call it a day? or should I assume something in the case is messed up and it needs to come out? and why should a friggin' chinese lawnmower engine be even this complex? but anyhow, it runs. and it's got a little power. someone's going to end up in the e.r., I'm sure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Franklin" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:41:31 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:00 AM, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: It'll be crisper with a direct connection and should run just fine. Depending on the carb size, it may bog slightly if you floor it too fast; the governor damps that action a bit. Worst that can happen is you blow the motor, or run the cable incorrectly and the throttle sticks and you plow into a wall. From dhlocker at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 20:29:02 2009 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:29:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <1041401126.3437331251201015529.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <222457769.3788801251253742884.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> The rod is the connection from the governor to the throttle. It's probably oscillating because there is no load on the engine, but it might be the spark plug or poor mixture. The spring won't provide any damping on its own, but if you hold the rod steady, you are holding the throttle steady and the engine speed should be constant. If it is, then I would consider the plug and fueling system to be OK and look for a sticky governor or just some way to apply a load to the engine - they aren't designed to operate with no load and the governor will hunt under those conditions. Try to see what the other end of the rod is attached to - I'd expect either a vane in the cooling fan airstream or a flyweight governor might be buried in an impossible-to-disassemble mechanical box. Both kinds of governors will leave the throttle wide open when the engine is off, then start to close the throttle as the sensed speed approaches the set point. The spring should probably be attached so as to close the throttle and was probably attached to the speed control - pulling the knob or twisting the lever further releases some of the spring tenson and allows the engine to run faster. There should still be another spring (it might be buried in the flyweight governor mechanism or attached to the wind vane) to urge the throttle closed unless the speed is lower than the setpoint. HTH, Donald. ----- Original Message ----- From: "scott hall" To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:50:15 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue the engine's a 5.5 hp honda ohv knockoff from pepboys. cheng kang, or something. it's an a go-kart. couldn't help it, it was damn near free. because it didn't run. ah, but it didn't run because the dpo left it sitting so long the gas went...I don't know what. I've never actually seen the inside of a carb look like that. the jets were plugged solid and the gas in the tank was green. I mean, I've seen lots of bad gas...but never that shade of green. so clean out the jets, new gas, it fires! I needed a win after the pool. :-) come to think of it, the gas was the same shade as the pool is far too often... so it starts and runs...but it runs with an 'oscillation', I guess is how I'd describe it. if you hold the throttle pedal down, it won't maintain a steady rpm. up and down at a fairly frequent pattern. there's an actuating rod attached to what I think is the throttle plate in the carb (there are two butterfly plates in the carb--the choke and the plate to which this rod is attached). this rod runs under the gas tank and is attached to the motor in some fashion (can't seem and wouldn't understand it anyway, so didn't remove the tank). this rod is moving back and forth at the same periodicity as the engine rpm oscillation. clearly, that's what's causing it. anybody know what that rod is, and what it's doing? some sort of constant velocity setup? then there's a spring installed outside/over this same rod (the rod is running through the center of the spring). one end of the spring attaches to the 'throttle plate' (?) cam right next to the rod. the other end was attached to nothing when I got it, but judging by its length should attach under the tank somewhere. anybody know what this spring is supposed to be doing? some sort of dampener? I can't fit my fingers in to pull the spring, but I can hold that rod still, and when I do, it runs fine. so...I was hoping for a guess as to what that spring might be doing, which might help when I take off the tank and try to figure out where to attach it. or a description of what that rod is and what it's doing. or, if you know exactly what to do, that'd be cool too. pep boys apparently sells a different brand of these each week and there are no identifying markings on it to google the maker. it just looks a lot like my honda mower engine turned upright. thanks in advance. scott From eltonclark at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 20:48:09 2009 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:48:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fwd: mower engine issue In-Reply-To: References: <1041401126.3437331251201015529.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: *Scott:* ** *Does there seem to be any provision for mixture adjustment. a "high speed jet screw" or "altitude adjuster"? * ** *I've had a lot of little engines that tended to "surge" or oscilliate when adjusted rich but pop and spit back when adjusted lean. Even tho' you've circumvented the governor action surging, you might benefit in the way of power and smoothness if you can tune the high speed mixture . . * *Tony in Texas* From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 25 23:10:31 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:10:31 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <912819699.3816411251246256127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090826051031049.VDZ17593@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> > someone's going to end > up in the e.r., I'm sure. Boy, does that bring back memories. I must've been about 11 when we tried building a go-kart out of old lawnmower parts. Wooden chassis, steering by pivoting a 2x4 on a central bolt, belt drive to one rear wheel with no clutch. To stop, we drug our feet on the pavement. Throttle linkage was just a length of wire laying over the driver's shoulder ... probably would have worked better if we had felt the need for some sort of return spring. As I recall, we each took a turn going ass over tea kettle before the carburetor broke off and the project was retired. Anyway, basically the governor is required to avoid over-speeding the engine when you aren't cutting any grass. And unless you are planning on building a mower again after your ER visit, I think you can safely ignore the governor mechanism. Well, "safe" relative to building a go-kart from lawnmower parts anyway Randall From dhlocker at comcast.net Wed Aug 26 04:54:22 2009 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:54:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue In-Reply-To: <912819699.3816411251246256127.JavaMail.root@sz0146a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2057643924.3858221251284062232.JavaMail.root@sz0052a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> It's that complex because it's application is supposed to be a constant-speed application; as are also generators, welders, pumps, and most applications for small engines, for that matter. Engines are rated for power and life at a specific speed; faster than that and life goes down, slower and power is down. The governor tries to get you the best from both worlds. For variable speed applications (driving vehicles with mechanical (as opposed to hydrostatic or electro-motive) transmissions), disconnecting the governor can be a useful upgrade. Donald. ----- Original Message ----- From: "scott hall" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:24:16 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue alright, I got it running by taking it more-or-less apart and guessing as to which hole the governor's spring went into. that thing is a death trap. my son and I love it. but it's still doing the rpm oscillation. so basically, I fangle a way to connect the throttle cable to the butterfly in the carb throat (where the governor is currently connected)? and then I can remove the associated governor parts? I ask like that because whatever's driving the governor is deep in the case. I don't know that I'd take it apart to get the stuff out of there, so I can just remove the lever that attaches to the throttle butterfly and call it a day? or should I assume something in the case is messed up and it needs to come out? and why should a friggin' chinese lawnmower engine be even this complex? but anyhow, it runs. and it's got a little power. someone's going to end up in the e.r., I'm sure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Franklin" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:41:31 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] mower engine issue On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:00 AM, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: It'll be crisper with a direct connection and should run just fine. Depending on the carb size, it may bog slightly if you floor it too fast; the governor damps that action a bit. Worst that can happen is you blow the motor, or run the cable incorrectly and the throttle sticks and you plow into a wall. From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 26 22:43:26 2009 From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] pressure washer revisited- thanks for the advice Message-ID: <690158.68621.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I posted a question a few weeks ago on what thoughts you all might have on what I should look for in a pressure washer. Well I took your advices and went with a 3800psi 4.5 gpm 11hp honda engine by Dewalt. Boy does it degrease old tractors, there will be no more scrapping with a putty knife. I also purchased a roto blaster turbo nozzle. The cost of the pressure washer was $999.00 at HD actual price was $899.00 after opening a charge account. Thanks again for the advice Frank V. rustymetal at sbcglobal.net From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 29 07:26:42 2009 From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 06:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask Message-ID: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I wear bifocals and was wondering if there is a different lens available, so I don't have to weld with my head cocked back, for my welding mask to compensate for this? Frank V. rustymetal at sbcglobal.net From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sat Aug 29 07:41:33 2009 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:41:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7FF686A45F814743AC960371A0737690@niolon> Frank.. any welding supply store can supply you with a 'cheater' lens in the correct power.. I use a 1.75 and it helps tremendously. You might even find them at Home Depot or Lowes... but I know that Airgas or Post welding will carry them... john I used to be funny, and perhaps I'm not anymore. It may be that I have become rather grumpy because I've seen so many things that have offended me that I cannot deal with in terms of laughter. ~ Kurt Vonnegut ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Vantacich" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 8:26 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask >I wear bifocals and was wondering if there is a different lens available, >so I > don't have to weld with my head cocked back, for my welding mask to > compensate > for this? > > > Frank V. > rustymetal at sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as jniolon at bham.rr.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2331 - Release Date: 08/28/09 06:26:00 From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sat Aug 29 07:37:53 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:37:53 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask In-Reply-To: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I doubt it. I just wear drug store reading glasses (under my welding helmet...). Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- >I wear bifocals and was wondering if there is a different lens available, >so I > don't have to weld with my head cocked back, for my welding mask to > compensate > for this? > > Frank V. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sat Aug 29 07:39:23 2009 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:39:23 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask In-Reply-To: <7FF686A45F814743AC960371A0737690@niolon> References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7FF686A45F814743AC960371A0737690@niolon> Message-ID: <3FBE3FE2FBAB47ABA2D909B498BF7889@EricJRussellPC> Well, it didn't take long for me to stand corrected. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > Frank.. > > any welding supply store can supply you with a 'cheater' lens in the > correct power.. I use a 1.75 and it helps tremendously. From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sat Aug 29 07:49:26 2009 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:49:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7FF686A45F814743AC960371A0737690@niolon> <3FBE3FE2FBAB47ABA2D909B498BF7889@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <9B056E333D50471C8E92CD6E7736C826@niolon> sorry Eric... I didn't know this till last year when my arms got too short !!!!! I used to be funny, and perhaps I'm not anymore. It may be that I have become rather grumpy because I've seen so many things that have offended me that I cannot deal with in terms of laughter. ~ Kurt Vonnegut ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J Russell" To: "john niolon" ; "Frank Vantacich" ; "shop-talk" Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] welding mask > Well, it didn't take long for me to stand corrected. > > Eric Russell > Mebane, NC > http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> Frank.. >> >> any welding supply store can supply you with a 'cheater' lens in the >> correct power.. I use a 1.75 and it helps tremendously. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2331 - Release Date: 08/28/09 06:26:00 From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat Aug 29 07:50:12 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:50:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask In-Reply-To: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829094644.01d5dcf8@cox.net> At 09:26 AM 8/29/2009, Frank Vantacich wrote: >I wear bifocals and was wondering if there is a different lens available, so I >don't have to weld with my head cocked back, for my welding mask to >compensate for this? Frank, I also wear bifocals and had a hell-of-a time trying to weld with my glasses on. So I'd take them off, but still couldn't see too well. Then I got a 2x insert for my helmet, and that helped a lot. I still wasn't wearing my glasses. Then one day I was trying to help a friend learn to weld, and had my glasses on, when I lowered my mask. WOW, with the 2x and my glasses I could actually see for the first time - in a long time. I also have had to have a pair of glasses made so I can read the computer screen. I haven't tried them under my helmet yet, but I think that might help also. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From arvidj at visi.com Sat Aug 29 07:53:07 2009 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:53:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43975551ACEE4994B6CF08726F4877DA@behavioral.com> At least one, but not the only solution ... Go here ... http://www.weldingsupply.com and search - upper left side of the page - for lens. About halfway down the search results you will find "2 x 4 Magnifying Lenses w/Protective Case" and below that are magnifying lenses by Jackson. There may be other on the page. And you may be able to find these at your local welding supply. I have several of the Jackson lenses that I use in my Speedglas helmet. It fits between the outer lens shield and the autodark unit so it is protected from splatter. Highly recommended by me for exactly the problem you have described. The only drawback is that they are only a single focal length. Not a problem for me but it might make a difference to others. Arvid ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Vantacich" To: "Shop Talk" Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 8:26 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask >I wear bifocals and was wondering if there is a different lens available, >so I > don't have to weld with my head cocked back, for my welding mask to > compensate > for this? > > > Frank V. > rustymetal at sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as arvidj at visi.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive From bspidell at comcast.net Sat Aug 29 08:04:30 2009 From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:04:30 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask In-Reply-To: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A99356E.8050704@comcast.net> I got curious myself: http://store.cyberweld.com/malemihe.html Frank Vantacich wrote: > I wear bifocals and was wondering if there is a different lens available, so I > don't have to weld with my head cocked back, for my welding mask to compensate > for this? > > > Frank V. > rustymetal at sbcglobal.net ******************************************************************* Bob Spidell San Jose, CA bspidell at comcast.net ******************************************************************* From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat Aug 29 08:05:57 2009 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:05:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829094644.01d5dcf8@cox.net> References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.5.6.1.20090829094644.01d5dcf8@cox.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829100057.01d5fd50@cox.net> Frank, One thing no one has mentioned, is it depends on the helmet you have, as to weither you can add a magnifying lense. I have an older typical welding helmet that I put an aftermarket auto darkening lense. I was able to add the magnifying lense to it. On the cheap (Harbor Freight) auto darkening helmet for my son. This helmet will not take an additional magnifying lense. So if you have a Harbor Freight helmet, you'll need to get another pair of glasses for welding which will be the close up part of your bifocals. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sat Aug 29 08:20:37 2009 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:20:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6.2.5.6.1.20090829094644.01d5dcf8@cox.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20090829100057.01d5fd50@cox.net> Message-ID: <0C28D9A316D148188BE3C88FB98AC299@niolon> lahhhh... another reason to use duct tape !!! I have a H.F. autodark hood and had the same problem... a small strip of duct tape on each side holds the cheater in perfectly and doesn't obstruct the view... don't you just love duct tape ??? :-) john > Frank, > > One thing no one has mentioned, is it depends on the helmet you have, as > to > weither you can add a magnifying lense. > > I have an older typical welding helmet that I put an aftermarket auto > darkening > lense. I was able to add the magnifying lense to it. On the cheap > (Harbor > Freight) auto darkening helmet for my son. This helmet will not take an > additional magnifying lense. > > So if you have a Harbor Freight helmet, you'll need to get another > pair of glasses > for welding which will be the close up part of your bifocals. > > John > > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net > Va. Beach, Va > Phone: (757) 495-8229 > > 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) > 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III > 65 Rambler Classic > > Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan > Bricklin: www.bricklin.org > > If you can read this - Thank a teacher! > If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! > _______________________________________________ > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html > > You are subscribed as jniolon at bham.rr.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > http://www.team.net/archive -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: 08/29/09 06:39:00 From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 29 08:43:00 2009 From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask Thanks for the advice In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.1.20090829094644.01d5dcf8@cox.net> Message-ID: <526010.16374.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks everybody for the advice. I have an auto darkening mask from TSC, I'll look into getting a magnifier insert. Frank V. rustymetal at sbcglobal.net --- On Sat, 8/29/09, John T. Blair wrote: From: John T. Blair Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] welding mask To: "Shop Talk" Date: Saturday, August 29, 2009, 6:50 AM At 09:26 AM 8/29/2009, Frank Vantacich wrote: >I wear bifocals and was wondering if there is a different lens available, so I >don't have to weld with my head cocked back, for my welding mask to >compensate for this? Frank, I also wear bifocals and had a hell-of-a time trying to weld with my glasses on. So I'd take them off, but still couldn't see too well. Then I got a 2x insert for my helmet, and that helped a lot. I still wasn't wearing my glasses. Then one day I was trying to help a friend learn to weld, and had my glasses on, when I lowered my mask. WOW, with the 2x and my glasses I could actually see for the first time - in a long time. I also have had to have a pair of glasses made so I can read the computer screen. I haven't tried them under my helmet yet, but I think that might help also. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! You are subscribed as rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk http://www.team.net/archive From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Aug 29 09:05:15 2009 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:05:15 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask In-Reply-To: <3FBE3FE2FBAB47ABA2D909B498BF7889@EricJRussellPC> Message-ID: <20090829150516182.LFTZ6799@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> > Well, it didn't take long for me to stand corrected. OTOH, if you're cheap like I am, and just need some magnification; a pair of $.99 reading glasses work pretty good and are a lot cheaper than the 'cheaters'. Randall From cavanadd at verizon.net Sat Aug 29 13:43:07 2009 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:43:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] welding mask In-Reply-To: <0C28D9A316D148188BE3C88FB98AC299@niolon> References: <209164.70850.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6.2.5.6.1.20090829094644.01d5dcf8@cox.net> <6.2.5.6.1.20090829100057.01d5fd50@cox.net> <0C28D9A316D148188BE3C88FB98AC299@niolon> Message-ID: <4A9984CB.9000408@verizon.net> Duct tape? That stuff is expensive and nasty to work with. I glued my cheater lenses into my H.F. auto darkening helmet with hot glue. Dave john niolon wrote: > lahhhh... another reason to use duct tape !!! I have a H.F. autodark > hood and had the same problem... a small strip of duct tape on each side > holds the cheater in perfectly and doesn't obstruct the view... > > don't you just love duct tape ??? :-)