From mark at bradakis.com  Thu May  1 00:52:41 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 00:52:41 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] a question on portable air tanks
In-Reply-To: <022c01c8ab0a$ef78c070$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
References: <481894EF.8050303@landform.co.uk><2400a5d40804300957r198415ffhef1b248a7fede14@mail.gmail.com><ea2385360804301126u7d143993ice7a74f386b2aee3@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C797013F8CED@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
	<022c01c8ab0a$ef78c070$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>

The handiest thing I did with my air tank was to replace the tire chuck
on the hose with a female quick connect fitting.  So out at the track,
back when I used to do that sort of thing, I could plug in my air tools
and such.  Also I took a ball valve and put a male coupler on each side.
So I plug one side of the valve into the shop supply line, the other side
into the fitting on the air tank, turn on the valve and can fill the tank
without having to hold a tire chuck to it for seemingly endless minutes.

Of course, I've *never* unplugged one side or the other without
turning off the valve first!

mjb.

From mbarre at juno.com  Thu May  1 05:55:04 2008
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:55:04 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack stands
Message-ID: <20080501.075504.11834.2@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>

While I am sure they are pricey, the semi reclining rolling chairs I see on
the hangar deck seem like a great option for the "low lift" set.
MRB


-- "Trevor Boicey" <trevor at boicey.com> wrote:
> higher, even though you wouldn't have the clearance to be able to stand
> under the vehicle in most residential garages.

 Worth chiming in, I don't consider this a real minus...

 I have a hoist in my garage, and I've moved from a house with "medium"
clearance to one with "lower" clearance.

 I find I am more comfortable sitting on a rolling chair under the car
than standing. I'm pretty sure I don't work as fast as a pro mechanic so
I like to be comfortable.

 The other upside is that the entire floor becomes your tool tray,
everything is within reach.

 The main downside is that when you need a new tool, you have to hunch
over to get to the tool chest...

 Overall though, sitting beats standing for me...
You are subscribed as mbarre at juno.com

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http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

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From mark at sccaprepared.com  Thu May  1 07:30:49 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:30:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack stands
In-Reply-To: <035001c8ab3f$9b321860$45247247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
References: <OF54AA949B.887B4670-ON8525743B.0051359F-8525743B.005135A4@mail.megageek.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301107370.20016@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<37405.198.103.167.20.1209568599.squirrel@new.host.name>
	<035001c8ab3f$9b321860$45247247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805010925450.22998@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FRED E THOMAS wrote:
> I had a back hoe carve out a 7 ft deep, 3 ft wide and 22 ft long "pit" 
> in the floor of my garage with steps to walk down and under any size 
> car, cost me a total of $1200. and I think the best money I have ever 
> invested, gosh does it make it easy to do all underside of the cars. 
> "FT"

My dad has a pit also.

If you've got limited clearance, its certainly a decent option I guess, 
provided its allowed by code (seems like that's an issue at least 
commercially), but it has some drawbacks...

1st, you've got to climb up/down steps ever time you need to get in/out. 
That gets old on your 2nd or 3rd trip back to the toolbox, particularly if 
your pit is like my dad's where its not really long enough to have the 
stair end completely exposed so that you don't need to wriggle past the 
bumper.

2nd, you've got even worse access to stuff in the pit than you do with a 
four post lift.  Again, no quick ducking under a ramp to get to something 
underneath and then from the side of the car.

3rd, the pit screws up floor use when you're not using the pit.

Compared to a four post or two post with decent clearance, you'd have to 
be a bit daft (IMHO) to want a pit.  Compared to a lift without enough 
clearance or for a space that can't deal with the posts, its a little 
closer I guess, but I'd rather work on a car on a two post lift sitting on 
my butt on the floor than in a pit.

Just MHO.

Mark

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Thu May  1 07:32:50 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:32:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] a question on portable air tanks
In-Reply-To: <481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>
References: <481894EF.8050303@landform.co.uk><2400a5d40804300957r198415ffhef1b248a7fede14@mail.gmail.com><ea2385360804301126u7d143993ice7a74f386b2aee3@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C797013F8CED@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
	<022c01c8ab0a$ef78c070$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805010932120.22998@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Thu, 1 May 2008, Mark J Bradakis wrote:
> Also I took a ball valve and put a male coupler on each side. So I plug 
> one side of the valve into the shop supply line, the other side into the 
> fitting on the air tank, turn on the valve and can fill the tank without 
> having to hold a tire chuck to it for seemingly endless minutes.
>
> Of course, I've *never* unplugged one side or the other without turning 
> off the valve first!

Makes a racket, doesn't it?

Uh... I've never done that either.

:-)

Mark

From trevor at boicey.com  Thu May  1 07:48:14 2008
From: trevor at boicey.com (Trevor Boicey)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:48:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack stands
In-Reply-To: <167503c10804301248g52e3a55ej2346ca2372c3fd9b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OF54AA949B.887B4670-ON8525743B.0051359F-8525743B.005135A4@mail.megageek.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301107370.20016@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<37405.198.103.167.20.1209568599.squirrel@new.host.name>
	<bdde53220804300943q1b011ffcrd6e9ee766d02066@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818BB99.1020200@b2systems.com> <4818BE26.7000601@smarc.net>
	<4818C51D.3030504@b2systems.com> <4818C60F.4090605@smarc.net>
	<4818C994.2030703@b2systems.com>
	<167503c10804301248g52e3a55ej2346ca2372c3fd9b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <30074.198.103.167.20.1209649694.squirrel@new.host.name>

> Oil's not TOO terrible. My MR2 decided to leak gasoline onto the Acura
> parked under it a couple of months ago, boy did that stink!... It was my
> own
> fault- I had undone the fuel lines and forgotten to loosen the gas cap. It
> got warm in the garage and physics took over...

  Only somewhat related story...

  In the winter, I have to double park at my place...

  So usually, with the current fleet, I put my wife's Miata over my
E-type, because they are both short, and usually the Miata doesn't leak.

  However, two years in a row it did leak on the E.

  First year was a rusted line in the power steering system. Fairly easy
fix and easy part to get, as a lot of Miata owners remove their power
steering system, but all the same, dirty oil all over the E.

  Second year was amusing...

  About half way through the winter, my wife complained the garage smelled
like gas. I have a lot of "toys" in there, so I sort of denied smelling
it.

  After another few weeks, it was getting worse, but I held off until spring.

  In the spring, I noticed the cloth cover on the E-type was *SOAKED* with
gasoline. Sure enough the Miata was leaking...

  Looking at the gas tank on the Miata, it was leaking from EVERYWHERE.
Gas was pouring from every area on the tank.

  Looking in the shop manual, I was floored by the amount of work required
to change the tank. Drop the exhaust, drop the sub frame, a full
weekends uninterrupted work at the very least, if not more.

  So the first thing I had to do was scrape away the undercoating and
remove the tank drain bolt. When I did, I noticed the washer on the plug
was half missing, electrolytically dissolved.

  Turns out that the plug was leaking, and because of the undercoating
making a good seal, it was "flooding" inside the undercoating and then
pouring out of every little nick, crack, and seam of the undercoating.

  Changed the washer and all is well. The guy at Canadian Tire didn't even
charge me for the washer, although I probably lost $50 in gas over the
winter.

  Moral? Use drip pans, even with "modern cars that don't leak".

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Thu May  1 07:48:54 2008
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:48:54 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] a question on portable air tanks
In-Reply-To: <481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>
References: <481894EF.8050303@landform.co.uk>
	<2400a5d40804300957r198415ffhef1b248a7fede14@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360804301126u7d143993ice7a74f386b2aee3@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C797013F8CED@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
	<022c01c8ab0a$ef78c070$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <ea2385360805010648n2f390882ncca3e4a2c09b3308@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:52 AM, Mark J Bradakis <mark at bradakis.com> wrote:

> The handiest thing I did with my air tank was to replace the tire chuck
> on the hose with a female quick connect fitting.  So out at the track,
> back when I used to do that sort of thing, I could plug in my air tools
> and such.


*>>>How big a tank does it take to be really useful on air tools?*
**

>  Also I took a ball valve and put a male coupler on each side.
> So I plug one side of the valve into the shop supply line, the other side
> into the fitting on the air tank, turn on the valve and can fill the tank
> without having to hold a tire chuck to it for seemingly endless minutes.
>

>>>*There's a "clip-on" chuck available for this purpose,  walk off and
unplug it later . .4 - 5 bucks.*

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu May  1 07:49:34 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:49:34 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] lifts (was: jack stands)
In-Reply-To: <009501c8ab3e$66d905c0$6400a8c0@OFFICEPC>
References: <mailman.10492.1209583484.1200.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
	<009501c8ab3e$66d905c0$6400a8c0@OFFICEPC>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805010649x78820a98o64c50dcdd218eb36@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Mark Miller
<markmiller at threeboysfarm.com> wrote:
> I've always been intrigued by these:
>  http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33795
>
>  Anyone have one?  Or better yet, a pair to make a low rise lift?  And yes, I
>  think a set of very well made jack stands would make a lot of sense with
>  them.

I don't have one.  But I've done lots of work under one.  The shop I
used to work for had one (well, a five ton one).  We used it to lift
the front of trucks that wouldn't fit on the lift.  Sometimes, I'd use
it outside when the shop was full.  I don't think I'd want to have
two.  They're fine for things where you just want one end of the
vehicle off the ground, like brakes, or to change a starter motor.




-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Thu May  1 08:22:13 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 07:22:13 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] a question on portable air tanks
In-Reply-To: <481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <20080501142212.XNVY20708.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall>

> Also I took a 
> ball valve and put a male coupler on each side.

I took a somewhat simpler (tho not as effective) approach :
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46788

Randall

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Thu May  1 08:34:43 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 10:34:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] a question on portable air tanks
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360805010648n2f390882ncca3e4a2c09b3308@mail.gmail.com>
References: <481894EF.8050303@landform.co.uk>
	<2400a5d40804300957r198415ffhef1b248a7fede14@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360804301126u7d143993ice7a74f386b2aee3@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C797013F8CED@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
	<022c01c8ab0a$ef78c070$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>
	<ea2385360805010648n2f390882ncca3e4a2c09b3308@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805011032410.28152@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Thu, 1 May 2008, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote:
>> The handiest thing I did with my air tank was to replace the tire chuck
>> on the hose with a female quick connect fitting.  So out at the track,
>> back when I used to do that sort of thing, I could plug in my air tools
>> and such.
>
>
> *>>>How big a tank does it take to be really useful on air tools?*
> **

Depends on what you're doing.... I find it most useful when you need a hit 
with an impact on something that's really hard to loosen any other way 
(like top strut mounts, for instance).  Also when you need an air blast to 
blow something off.

You don't have hardly any capacity of course, so you need to use it 
wisely, but its occasionally quite useful.

Mark

From ericm at lne.com  Thu May  1 11:31:19 2008
From: ericm at lne.com (ericm at lne.com)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 10:31:19 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
Message-ID: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>

Hi shop-talkers.

Ive been thinking that I should get some ramps as it would be
faster and easier to get cars up on them than to jack them up.

What should I look for in ramps?  I'd be putting sporty cars
(lowered Mistu Eclipse, VW R32, mazdaspeed3) and probably
a VW Eurovan on them.

Eric

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Thu May  1 11:34:19 2008
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:34:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <20080501133229.B30725@itonami.pair.com>

On Thu, 1 May 2008, ericm at lne.com wrote:
> Ive been thinking that I should get some ramps as it would be
> faster and easier to get cars up on them than to jack them up.
>
> What should I look for in ramps?  I'd be putting sporty cars
> (lowered Mistu Eclipse, VW R32, mazdaspeed3) and probably
> a VW Eurovan on them.

    Good luck.  I have three sets of ramps in my garage.  Never use them. 
Jack and stands is faster, and I have never yet shot a jackstand across my 
garage while tryin to drive a low car up onto it ;)

--
  David Hillman

From smarc at smarc.net  Thu May  1 12:10:31 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 14:10:31 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <20080501133229.B30725@itonami.pair.com>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<20080501133229.B30725@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <481A0797.4060109@smarc.net>

   I have two sets of Rhino ramps. Forget about using them on the driving
   wheels....
Marc

   David Hillman wrote:

On Thu, 1 May 2008, ericm at lne.com wrote:

Ive been thinking that I should get some ramps as it would be
faster and easier to get cars up on them than to jack them up.

What should I look for in ramps?  I'd be putting sporty cars
(lowered Mistu Eclipse, VW R32, mazdaspeed3) and probably
a VW Eurovan on them.

    Good luck.  I have three sets of ramps in my garage.  Never use them.
Jack and stands is faster, and I have never yet shot a jackstand across my
garage while tryin to drive a low car up onto it ;)

--

From ericm at lne.com  Thu May  1 12:14:39 2008
From: ericm at lne.com (ericm at lne.com)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:14:39 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <481A0797.4060109@smarc.net>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<20080501133229.B30725@itonami.pair.com> <481A0797.4060109@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <20080501181439.GC23827@slack.lne.com>

On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 02:10:31PM -0400, Marc wrote:
>    I have two sets of Rhino ramps. Forget about using them on the driving
>    wheels....

Why?

Eric

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Thu May  1 12:41:23 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:41:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <20080501181439.GC23827@slack.lne.com>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<20080501133229.B30725@itonami.pair.com> <481A0797.4060109@smarc.net>
	<20080501181439.GC23827@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805011440510.10990@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Thu, 1 May 2008, ericm at lne.com wrote:
> On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 02:10:31PM -0400, Marc wrote:
>>    I have two sets of Rhino ramps. Forget about using them on the driving
>>    wheels....
>
> Why?

Yeah, ditto... My steel ramps work fine on the drive wheels but suck rocks 
on the non-driven wheels...

Mark

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Thu May  1 12:41:36 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:41:36 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <20080501133229.B30725@itonami.pair.com>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<20080501133229.B30725@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <03cc01c8abba$fc19b8b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> and I have never yet shot a 
> jackstand across my 
> garage while tryin to drive a low car up onto it ;)

Or a high car, for that matter.  I even considered nailing the ### things to
the floor !

And they've generally been useless for rear wheels, at least for every
vehicle I've owned.  The only ones with enough clearance for the ramps were
too heavy for the ramps.

Randall

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Thu May  1 13:10:38 2008
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:10:38 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7970142F020@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

ericm at lne.com wrote:
>
> I've been thinking that I should get some ramps as it would be
> faster and easier to get cars up on them than to jack them up.
>
> What should I look for in ramps?  I'd be putting sporty cars
> (lowered Mistu Eclipse, VW R32, mazdaspeed3) and probably
> a VW Eurovan on them.

Get a set of RhinoRamps (they make two versions - an 8,000 lb load, and
a 12,000 lb load version.  They are the same size, etc., just one is a
bit stronger - either will lift a normal car without any problems.

The RhinoRamps are great for lower/low cars - my spoiler on the front of
my Miata barely clears the ramp, any higher and it would hit.  But that
is one of the problems - the RhinoRamps only lift the car about 8 inches
or so.  Enough room to squeeze under, but not a whole lot of extra room.

One problem with the ramps is that if you try to drive the un-driven
wheels up, the ramps often slide away.  There are a couple of cures for
this.  One is to attach (or sit the ramp on top of) a length of old
carpet to the front of the ramp to give it extra traction so it won't
slip.  That works for most people.  Another very simple method is to tie
a strap to the hole at the front edge of the ramp and lay it down on the
car so that the tire rolls on top of the strap and keeps things in
place.  That will prevent the ramp from slipping and keep it in place as
you drive up on it.

I use the RhinoRamps for every oil change I do, it's really simple.  You
can find them on sale for around $30 all the time.  Most auto part
stores carry them, as well as Wal-Mart, etc.

The only thing that would make it easier, would be a drive on lift...
:)

Tim Mullen

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu May  1 13:25:20 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 15:25:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>

At 10:31 AM 5/1/2008 -0700, ericm at lne.com wrote:

>Ive been thinking that I should get some ramps as it would be
>faster and easier to get cars up on them than to jack them up.
>
>What should I look for in ramps?  I'd be putting sporty cars
>(lowered Mistu Eclipse, VW R32, mazdaspeed3) and probably
>a VW Eurovan on them.

Eric,

Like others, I have a set gathering dust in the corner of my garage.
Good luck getting a lowered car up on them.  I had to put a 
brick at the beginning of the ramp to get my 84 Accord, 89 & 95 Voyagers,
and 95 Taurus up on them.   Granted, my ramps are over
20 year old, maybe they and decreased the slope so the new cars
can get up on them.  

One time I had my Morgan in the driveway, I was putting on of
my Voyager up to do an oil change.  Trying to climb the brick, the
voyager shot the brick out and down the driveway, just missing
the Morgan.  That's the last time I every used them.

Besides, the jack stands are lighter and easier to carry, and the jack
pushes easier that the ramps.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Thu May  1 14:04:35 2008
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 15:04:35 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <ea2385360805011304i4b03a1c5k9b3cec42feb9ed7b@mail.gmail.com>

*I don't use ramps as "drive on" devices for all the same reasons but I do
use them as sort of jack stands:  jack the car up and place them under the
tires when I need extra elbow room.  I notice that I add extrta blocking . .
I guess I don't fully trust the dang things.*

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu May  1 14:15:13 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:15:13 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805011315y186d7cc7i7cacbb7bec803666@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 3:25 PM, John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

>
>  Like others, I have a set gathering dust in the corner of my garage.
>  Good luck getting a lowered car up on them.  I had to put a
>  brick at the beginning of the ramp to get my 84 Accord, 89 & 95 Voyagers,
>  and 95 Taurus up on them.   Granted, my ramps are over
>  20 year old, maybe they and decreased the slope so the new cars
>  can get up on them.

I've got a pair of ramps, the brand of which I don't know.  They came
with a set of plastic extensions.  I don't need them for most cars or
trucks, but they're handy for low sports things.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Thu May  1 14:16:04 2008
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 15:16:04 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7970142F0C7@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

John T. Blair
>
> Granted, my ramps are over 20 year old, maybe they and
> decreased the slope so the new cars can get up on them.

I sounds like you have the old style tall metal ramps.

The RhinoRamps are lower, and have a more gentle slope.  They are
specifically made to allow you to use them with cars with low clearance.

I once tried to use those old metal ramps about 30 years ago.  After one
try, I gave them away.  The RhinoRamps, however, work just fine.

As a matter of fact, my floor jack won't fit under my Miata.  I have to
drive it up on the RhinoRamps (or a stack of 2x6s) to get it high enough
to get my jack under it to lift it up for jack stands (for wheel work).
The RhinoRamps work just fine for oil changes however...

Here's a link to their web page: <http://www.rhinoramps.com/index.html>.

Tim Mullen

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Thu May  1 14:22:27 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:22:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40805011315y186d7cc7i7cacbb7bec803666@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
	<2400a5d40805011315y186d7cc7i7cacbb7bec803666@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805011621330.18921@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Thu, 1 May 2008, David Scheidt wrote:
> I've got a pair of ramps, the brand of which I don't know.  They came 
> with a set of plastic extensions.  I don't need them for most cars or 
> trucks, but they're handy for low sports things.

Yep, ditto for me.  For FWD vehicles they're great... Drive on, back off, 
easy.

For rwd stuff though, they just slide along the ground, causing you to 
swear.  :-)

Mark

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Thu May  1 14:27:43 2008
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 15:27:43 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c8abc9$d284bdb0$6e01a8c0@KARL>

I never had ramps till a couple of years ago, when I hit a sale on the heavy 
Rhino Ramps, and I love them.  It's far faster than jacking and then 
adjusting and inserting the jackstands, then carefully lowering the vehicle 
onto the stands, and then jacking the vehicle up again and retrieving the 
stands once the job is done.

Like everyone else I've shot my ramps out a time or two, but only with the 
Suburban when I didn't put it into 4WD.  The Cobra and Midget go up very 
cooperatively, of course without any benefit of 4WD.  Some long strips of 
carpet or even some long lengths of webbing would be nice for assurance 
though.

Never tried the Model T on them though - it's high enough without ramps 
;-)

Karl




> Ive been thinking that I should get some ramps as it would be
> faster and easier to get cars up on them than to jack them up.
>
> What should I look for in ramps?  I'd be putting sporty cars
> (lowered Mistu Eclipse, VW R32, mazdaspeed3) and probably
> a VW Eurovan on them.
>
> Eric
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu May  1 15:52:30 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 17:52:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7970142F0C7@XMBIL103.northgru m.com>
References: <3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
	<20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080501175230.00aa4848@pop.east.cox.net>

At 03:16 PM 5/1/2008 -0500, Mullen, Tim wrote:
>John T. Blair
>>
>> Granted, my ramps are over 20 year old, maybe they and
>> decreased the slope so the new cars can get up on them.
>
>I sounds like you have the old style tall metal ramps.

Tim,

You are exactly right, they are the old metal ones.  Very heavy,
awakard to handle, etc.

>The RhinoRamps are lower, and have a more gentle slope.  They are
>specifically made to allow you to use them with cars with low clearance.

I may have to look into a set, but I'm so used to the jack and stands
now.  It really doesn't take long to jack the car up.

>As a matter of fact, my floor jack won't fit under my Miata.  I have to
>drive it up on the RhinoRamps (or a stack of 2x6s) to get it high enough
>to get my jack under it to lift it up for jack stands (for wheel work).
>The RhinoRamps work just fine for oil changes however...

If they work on your Miata, then they should work on most cars.

After I get my new shed in and built, and clean up my garage,
I may have to look into the RhinoRamps.  If I can get the room
to store them.  I looked them up, I think they weigh something
like 15# for the pair.  I think that was less than one of my old
metal ramps.


John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu May  1 16:02:04 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 18:02:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Packard meet in MD this weekend
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080501180204.00aa4848@pop.east.cox.net>

Don't know if anyone cares, but this Friday and Sat (May 2 & 3), there 
is giong to be a Packard meet in Fredrick, MD at the fairground off of 
route 70.

Intersection of Rt 355 and 144.

So if you're looking for something to do, you might want to stop by.

John

 
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From opposumking at verizon.net  Thu May  1 16:39:41 2008
From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 18:39:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
References: <20080501173119.GA23827@slack.lne.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20080501152520.00f56008@pop.east.cox.net>
	<2400a5d40805011315y186d7cc7i7cacbb7bec803666@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805011621330.18921@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <002601c8abdc$3f8959e0$2f01a8c0@CPQ12949640186>

Another thumbs up for the heavy Rhino ramps.  Like others, I've sworn at 
metal ramps as I'd chase them around with the car, or spun my drive wheels 
on the slope trying to get up them.  The Rhino ramps have a rubber foot that 
works great at holding it in place as the car rolls up it.  Traction is 
sufficient I can drive a fwd car onto them uphill in the rain.

From battmain at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 17:03:04 2008
From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 16:03:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps
Message-ID: <994708.11324.qm@web57001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Another user of the heavy Rhino ramps. I've never had any issues with
them,
but I usually get a slow moving start before the wheels  touch
the
incline.There is a rubber block at the start of the incline that keeps
falling
out, but that block stops it from slipping.  My neighbor on the other
hand
seems to have issues with the ramps. Everytime he brings them 
back, there are
new skid marks on them. Depending on the mood of
the miata, it lightly scrapes
occasionally. Depending on my mood, I might
use a 2x6 to help it. 
I also have
a set of the metal ramps sitting in a corner of the garage. 
Those things can
fly.   :)
Brian
battmain at yahoo.com
------ Original Message -----
From:
"ericm at lne.com" <ericm at lne.com>
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Sent: Thursday,
May 1, 2008 1:31:19 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] car ramps

Hi shop-talkers.

Ive
been thinking that I should get some ramps as it would be
faster and easier to
get cars up on them than to jack them up.

What should I look for in ramps? 
I'd be putting sporty cars
(lowered Mistu Eclipse, VW R32, mazdaspeed3) and
probably
a VW Eurovan on them.

(snip)
_____________________________________________________________________________
_______
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Thu May  1 19:19:46 2008
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 20:19:46 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] briggs&stratton help
Message-ID: <00ac01c8abf2$9c24c570$6401a8c0@niolon>

well the mower is in my shop...relevance part.

6.5 hp B&S intertec horizontal shaft engine.. three or so years old.  Always 
has cranked on 2nd or 3rd pull after winter storage.  At end of season I run 
all the gas out of it and store it with dry carb.

Tried it this year... no start... even with ether.  Changed the plug... 
still no start.  It has a solid state module bolted to the sheet metal that 
doesn't look damaged (it's pretty well protected.)  Before I start tearing 
this thing apart do we have any B&S experts that can give me some 
suggestions/common problems/remedies ??  Can you check the module ??  There 
is a plastic on/off switch built into the engine sheet metal and I haven't 
started tearing it down yet so I haven't checked that...

help ???

john



All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy. 

From rbeels at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 19:15:00 2008
From: rbeels at yahoo.com (Richard Beels)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 21:15:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] a question on portable air tanks
In-Reply-To: <481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>
References: <481894EF.8050303@landform.co.uk>
	<2400a5d40804300957r198415ffhef1b248a7fede14@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360804301126u7d143993ice7a74f386b2aee3@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C797013F8CED@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
	<022c01c8ab0a$ef78c070$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<481968B9.3070601@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20080501211205.03edbd18@yahoo.com>

I did the same thing.  And I drilled a hole in the threaded end of a 
female connector and zip tied it to the handle of the tank so I can 
never lose the "fill-up" connector.


At 5/1/2008 at 02:52, Shakespearean monkeys danced on Mark J 
Bradakis's keyboard and said:
>The handiest thing I did with my air tank was to replace the tire chuck
>on the hose with a female quick connect fitting.  So out at the track,
>back when I used to do that sort of thing, I could plug in my air tools
>and such.  Also I took a ball valve and put a male coupler on each side.
>So I plug one side of the valve into the shop supply line, the other side
>into the fitting on the air tank, turn on the valve and can fill the tank
>without having to hold a tire chuck to it for seemingly endless minutes.


Cheers!

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Thu May  1 23:05:06 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 22:05:06 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] briggs&stratton help
In-Reply-To: <00ac01c8abf2$9c24c570$6401a8c0@niolon>
Message-ID: <20080502050506.NYND720.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@randall>

> Before I start tearing this thing apart do we 
> have any B&S experts that can give me some suggestions/common 
> problems/remedies ??

I'm no expert, John, but I'd sure want to try spinning the motor with the
plug out, but connected to the wire and touching the cylinder head; to see
if there is a spark.

Went through something similar recently with what I believe is an old
Tecumseh (with the Sears logo on it) ... for some reason it wouldn't fire
the "starting fluid" I got at Kragen (which doesn't appear to be ether any
more), but would run on "carb cleaner".  Problem turned out to be hard,
white crud in the main jet passage in the carburetor.

Randall

From john__matthews at hotmail.com  Thu May  1 23:09:53 2008
From: john__matthews at hotmail.com (john matthews)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 22:09:53 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] briggs&stratton help
In-Reply-To: <00ac01c8abf2$9c24c570$6401a8c0@niolon>
References: <00ac01c8abf2$9c24c570$6401a8c0@niolon>
Message-ID: <BAY110-W1345C7F8D759EA5FDC24CFC9DA0@phx.gbl>

Hi John,

You didn't say if you have spark or not but the most likely cause is a stuck
valve.

Give me a call tomorow if you like, I've got my hands inside these things
every day.

John Matthews
http://heartbeatracingproducts.com
480-503-2337
> From: jniolon at bham.rr.com> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net> Date: Thu, 1 May
2008 20:19:46 -0500> Subject: [Shop-talk] briggs&stratton help> > well the
mower is in my shop...relevance part.> > 6.5 hp B&S intertec horizontal shaft
engine.. three or so years old. Always > has cranked on 2nd or 3rd pull after
winter storage. At end of season I run > all the gas out of it and store it
with dry carb.> > Tried it this year... no start... even with ether. Changed
the plug... > still no start. It has a solid state module bolted to the sheet
metal that > doesn't look damaged (it's pretty well protected.) Before I start
tearing > this thing apart do we have any B&S experts that can give me some >
suggestions/common problems/remedies ?? Can you check the module ?? There > is
a plastic on/off switch built into the engine sheet metal and I haven't >
started tearing it down yet so I haven't checked that...> > help ???> > john>
> > > All I ask is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy. >
_______________________________________________> Support Team.Net
http://www.team.net/donate.html> > You are subscribed as
john__matthews at hotmail.com> > Shop-talk mailing list> >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk> >
http://www.team.net/archive
_________________________________________________________________
In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_
realtime_042008

From opposumking at verizon.net  Fri May  2 03:52:09 2008
From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 05:52:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] briggs&stratton help
References: <00ac01c8abf2$9c24c570$6401a8c0@niolon>
Message-ID: <001e01c8ac3a$30656090$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>

Well, you don't just tear an engine down because it doesn't start, you 
diagnose it and fix it.

Spark, compression and a fuel mixture.  The basic three.

Pull the spark plug out, plug it in, lay it against the metal and pull the 
starter cord.  Look for a spark.  Odds are, you'll see one.  If not, look 
first at the ground or kill wire and see if it is grounded.  This is 
normally at the throttle linkage area.  If it's touching, the ignition will 
not fire.  If there's still no spark, the flywheel key would be my next 
suspect.  The entire ignition is on the outside of the engine, there's no 
tearing down.

When it spun, did it feel different?  It should spin freely now.  If it was 
spinning the same way earlier, you've got a problem with a stuck valve. 
Unlikely, imo.

That leaves fuel.  The most likely culprit imo.  Make sure gasoline is 
actually getting into the carburetor.  If yours have a petcock valve, make 
sure it's open.  Needles stick with remarkable regularity, in both 
directions.  Many a balky carburetor can be "fixed" with a quick rapping 
from the handle of a screwdriver.

Ether is a diesel engine starting fluid.  While gasoline engines can fire on 
it, it's far from a sure thing.  You're far more likely to get it to start 
with carburetor cleaner.

From doug at dougbraun.com  Fri May  2 09:44:24 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
Message-ID: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I see some stuff I would like to buy from grainger.com
(they have a location nearby), but they say:

"Please be advised that Grainger is a wholesaler, not
a consumer retailer. As such, we sell to other
businesses. If you are a new customer to Grainger, you
may be asked to provide business identification (U.S.
Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN), copy of business
license, etc.) before we ship your first order."

Is this an issue in practice for individuals like
myself?  Can I just say "Doug Braun Enterprises" for
my Company and get away with it?

In contrast, McMaster-Carr cheerfully sells to
anybody.

Doug

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Fri May  2 09:51:06 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:51:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
In-Reply-To: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805021150300.12435@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

Its been years and years since I've gone to a Grainger's customer counter, 
but that's pretty much exactly what I did.

No issues then.

Mark

On Fri, 2 May 2008, Doug Braun wrote:

> I see some stuff I would like to buy from grainger.com
> (they have a location nearby), but they say:
>
> "Please be advised that Grainger is a wholesaler, not
> a consumer retailer. As such, we sell to other
> businesses. If you are a new customer to Grainger, you
> may be asked to provide business identification (U.S.
> Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN), copy of business
> license, etc.) before we ship your first order."
>
> Is this an issue in practice for individuals like
> myself?  Can I just say "Doug Braun Enterprises" for
> my Company and get away with it?
>
> In contrast, McMaster-Carr cheerfully sells to
> anybody.
>
> Doug
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as mark at sccaprepared.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From smarc at smarc.net  Fri May  2 10:36:24 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 12:36:24 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805021150300.12435@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805021150300.12435@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <481B4308.8040608@smarc.net>

At least around here, Grainer's has a "Cash Customer" in their 
computer.... Never been an issue...

Marc



Mark Andy wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> Its been years and years since I've gone to a Grainger's customer counter, 
> but that's pretty much exactly what I did.
>
> No issues then.
>
> Mark
>
> On Fri, 2 May 2008, Doug Braun wrote:
>
>   
>> I see some stuff I would like to buy from grainger.com
>> (they have a location nearby), but they say:
>>
>> "Please be advised that Grainger is a wholesaler, not
>> a consumer retailer. As such, we sell to other
>> businesses. If you are a new customer to Grainger, you
>> may be asked to provide business identification (U.S.
>> Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN), copy of business
>> license, etc.) before we ship your first order."
>>
>> Is this an issue in practice for individuals like
>> myself?  Can I just say "Doug Braun Enterprises" for
>> my Company and get away with it?
>>
>> In contrast, McMaster-Carr cheerfully sells to
>> anybody.

From mistertwo at sbcglobal.net  Fri May  2 10:39:42 2008
From: mistertwo at sbcglobal.net (Rand E)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 09:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
In-Reply-To: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <872192.94383.qm@web82402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've also got a store that is local.   Last time I was
there I picked up an application and was going to fill
it out until I found out the company I work for has an
account there.  I just give them that name.  I suppose
somewhere the items show up on the companys account,
but since I paid for them myself they aren't going to
get charged anything.  I don't know if the company
gets a bonus for buying a certain quantity/value of
items but it should help them out. 

Randy


--- Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com> wrote:

> I see some stuff I would like to buy from
> grainger.com
> (they have a location nearby), but they say:
> 
> "Please be advised that Grainger is a wholesaler,
> not
> a consumer retailer. As such, we sell to other
> businesses. If you are a new customer to Grainger,
> you
> may be asked to provide business identification
> (U.S.
> Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN), copy of
> business
> license, etc.) before we ship your first order."
> 
> Is this an issue in practice for individuals like
> myself?  Can I just say "Doug Braun Enterprises" for
> my Company and get away with it?
> 
> In contrast, McMaster-Carr cheerfully sells to
> anybody.
> 
> Doug
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as mistertwo at sbcglobal.net
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From mikey at b2systems.com  Fri May  2 10:41:00 2008
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 09:41:00 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805021150300.12435@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805021150300.12435@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <481B441C.6060005@b2systems.com>

purchased from them over the phone and did a counter pickup, no issues.

  As to their business accounts, I have in the past successfully said I 
was a business and ordered from them for delivery and I was asked once 
for a copy of my business license, I called a few hours later and spoke 
to a different sales person and he did not ask for it.  I now have a 
small side business and even though it is web related, I just give them 
that and no issues.  Now that there is a local outlet, I just order and 
pick up.

 It seems to be randomly enforced at best.

    mike

Mark Andy wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> Its been years and years since I've gone to a Grainger's customer counter, 
> but that's pretty much exactly what I did.
>
> No issues then.
>
> Mark
>
> On Fri, 2 May 2008, Doug Braun wrote:
>
>   
>> I see some stuff I would like to buy from grainger.com
>> (they have a location nearby), but they say:
>>
>> "Please be advised that Grainger is a wholesaler, not
>> a consumer retailer. As such, we sell to other
>> businesses. If you are a new customer to Grainger, you
>> may be asked to provide business identification (U.S.
>> Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN), copy of business
>> license, etc.) before we ship your first order."
>>
>> Is this an issue in practice for individuals like
>> myself?  Can I just say "Doug Braun Enterprises" for
>> my Company and get away with it?
>>
>> In contrast, McMaster-Carr cheerfully sells to
>> anybody.
>>
>> Doug
>> _______________________________________________

From shiples at comcast.net  Fri May  2 17:11:23 2008
From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 16:11:23 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
In-Reply-To: <481B441C.6060005@b2systems.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805021150300.12435@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805021150300.12435@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080502160051.03d75800@mail.comcast.net>

>  It seems to be randomly enforced at best.
For me, the counter staff looked for an account.  I work for the local 
government and that was good enough.  My word was sufficient.  Just give 
the slightest justification and it'll be okay.  Connected to an 
organization you pass, if you insist on being an individual you don't.

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Fri May  2 17:57:46 2008
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 19:57:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
In-Reply-To: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <481BAA7A.4050708@xxiii.com>

Doug Braun wrote:
> Is this an issue in practice for individuals like
> myself?  Can I just say "Doug Braun Enterprises" for
> my Company and get away with it?

Depends on their motivation.  At the Graybar Electric I used to 
frequent, they had discount schedules negotiated and on the computer for 
the "big" customers.  If  you were unaffiliated, you [presumably] paid 
full price.

It could also be they're not set up, or don't want to mess with handling 
sales tax;  in which case they can't really make exceptions.

   -Wayne

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Fri May  2 18:43:31 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 20:43:31 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
In-Reply-To: <481BAA7A.4050708@xxiii.com>
References: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<481BAA7A.4050708@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805021743n3f06cf97w9619957f683b0df1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> Doug Braun wrote:
>  > Is this an issue in practice for individuals like
>  > myself?  Can I just say "Doug Braun Enterprises" for
>  > my Company and get away with it?
>
>  Depends on their motivation.  At the Graybar Electric I used to
>  frequent, they had discount schedules negotiated and on the computer for
>  the "big" customers.  If  you were unaffiliated, you [presumably] paid
>  full price.
>
>  It could also be they're not set up, or don't want to mess with handling
>  sales tax;  in which case they can't really make exceptions.

Near as I can tell, their motivation is not having to deal with people
who might ask questions.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Fri May  2 20:55:06 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 22:55:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40805021743n3f06cf97w9619957f683b0df1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <271098.12301.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<481BAA7A.4050708@xxiii.com>
	<2400a5d40805021743n3f06cf97w9619957f683b0df1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805022253520.11156@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Fri, 2 May 2008, David Scheidt wrote:
>>  It could also be they're not set up, or don't want to mess with handling
>>  sales tax;  in which case they can't really make exceptions.
>
> Near as I can tell, their motivation is not having to deal with people 
> who might ask questions.

Yep, that was my experience as well.  I think they mostly don't want DIY 
Dave Does It Wrong in there asking how a toilet works.

Mark

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sat May  3 15:54:55 2008
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 21:54:55 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
Message-ID: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to purchase for us a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere dealer.

$2,800.

that does not include tool-time heidi coming over for 'servicing' (what?  seemed fair for that coin).

comparable deere- (and other-) branded tractors (actually--not comparable, much, much better spec-ed) are about $1700 in big box stores.

so, before I return this thing to the dealership, can anyone tell me about deere tractors?  it's just a 42" kawasaki-v-twin engined lawn mower.

the salesman sold my wife with the increased warranty and told her everything at the 'crap' hardware stores was 'consumer' grade, but this fine hunk of machinery was for 'professionals' (maybe a lot of pros use 42" decked mower tractors, I don't know).

anyhow, it is different from the big-box models, and I assume the big-box ones are ayp (american yard products) machines with deere green paint and stickers.  but...$1,000 more?  basically, can anyone tell me about 'real' deere tractors, and give me any kind of actual reason I shouldn't take this thing back right now?  thicker deck, better tranny, etc.?  and how *much* better?

the extra warranty would be nice if it were free.  I wouldn't pay $.25 for it.  the deck has a nice adjuster.  it will get adjusted once then left there forever.  it seems to have a pto on it.  we have nothing that runs off a pto and never will.  any tractor will live in a garage and get maintained regularly.

ultimately: will it last that much longer and run ~100% better over that lifespan to justify the stinging pain I have right now in my butt?

I'm never going out of town again.  damn.

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sat May  3 15:56:37 2008
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 21:56:37 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Grainger??
Message-ID: <050320082156.6539.481CDF950009C2210000198B220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

the grainger location near me isn't staffed with pleasant folk, but they sold to me like any other retailer.  but I did see language similar to what you mention in their catalog, I think.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com>
> I see some stuff I would like to buy from grainger.com
> (they have a location nearby), but they say:
> 
> "Please be advised that Grainger is a wholesaler, not
> a consumer retailer. As such, we sell to other
> businesses. If you are a new customer to Grainger, you
> may be asked to provide business identification (U.S.
> Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN), copy of business
> license, etc.) before we ship your first order."

From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net  Sat May  3 16:03:57 2008
From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (fred thomas)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 18:03:57 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
References: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00c901c8ad69$95e62b40$34017247@fred8kwiskhcfu>

I had a neighbor a few years back that bought a Volvo, kept it for 20 years 
was very proud of the fact it had over 200,000 miles on it and still running 
strong, but the service shop bills over 20 years was close to $100,000, so 
conclusion, seems they have you coming and agin/going.  :) :)  "FT"

> my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to purchase 
> for us a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere dealer.
>
> $2,800.
>
> that does not include tool-time heidi coming over for 'servicing' (what? 
> seemed fair for that coin).
>
> comparable deere- (and other-) branded tractors (actually--not comparable, 
> much, much better spec-ed) are about $1700 in big box stores.
>
> so, before I return this thing to the dealership, can anyone tell me about 
> deere tractors?  it's just a 42" kawasaki-v-twin engined lawn mower.
>
> the salesman sold my wife with the increased warranty and told her 
> everything at the 'crap' hardware stores was 'consumer' grade, but this 
> fine hunk of machinery was for 'professionals' (maybe a lot of pros use 
> 42" decked mower tractors, I don't know).
>
> anyhow, it is different from the big-box models, and I assume the big-box 
> ones are ayp (american yard products) machines with deere green paint and 
> stickers.  but...$1,000 more?  basically, can anyone tell me about 'real' 
> deere tractors, and give me any kind of actual reason I shouldn't take 
> this thing back right now?  thicker deck, better tranny, etc.?  and how 
> *much* better?
>
> the extra warranty would be nice if it were free.  I wouldn't pay $.25 for 
> it.  the deck has a nice adjuster.  it will get adjusted once then left 
> there forever.  it seems to have a pto on it.  we have nothing that runs 
> off a pto and never will.  any tractor will live in a garage and get 
> maintained regularly.
>
> ultimately: will it last that much longer and run ~100% better over that 
> lifespan to justify the stinging pain I have right now in my butt?
>
> I'm never going out of town again.  damn.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as res8vz9q at verizon.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sat May  3 16:12:00 2008
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 18:12:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
References: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <481CE330.5040404@xxiii.com>

scott.hall at comcast.net wrote:
> my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to purchase for us a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere dealer.

"Up the Voltage"

   -Wb

From jmitch at snet.net  Sat May  3 16:28:17 2008
From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 18:28:17 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
References: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <481CE701.3030902@snet.net>

I wouldn't care what brand she bought, as long as she's the one using 
it:)  John

scott.hall at comcast.net wrote:
> my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to purchase for us a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere dealer.
>
> $2,800.
>
> that does not include tool-time heidi coming over for 'servicing' (what?  seemed fair for that coin).
>
> comparable deere- (and other-) branded tractors (actually--not comparable, much, much better spec-ed) are about $1700 in big box stores.
>
> so, before I return this thing to the dealership, can anyone tell me about deere tractors?  it's just a 42" kawasaki-v-twin engined lawn mower.
>
> the salesman sold my wife with the increased warranty and told her everything at the 'crap' hardware stores was 'consumer' grade, but this fine hunk of machinery was for 'professionals' (maybe a lot of pros use 42" decked mower tractors, I don't know).
>
> anyhow, it is different from the big-box models, and I assume the big-box ones are ayp (american yard products) machines with deere green paint and stickers.  but...$1,000 more?  basically, can anyone tell me about 'real' deere tractors, and give me any kind of actual reason I shouldn't take this thing back right now?  thicker deck, better tranny, etc.?  and how *much* better?
>
> the extra warranty would be nice if it were free.  I wouldn't pay $.25 for it.  the deck has a nice adjuster.  it will get adjusted once then left there forever.  it seems to have a pto on it.  we have nothing that runs off a pto and never will.  any tractor will live in a garage and get maintained regularly.
>
> ultimately: will it last that much longer and run ~100% better over that lifespan to justify the stinging pain I have right now in my butt?
>
> I'm never going out of town again.  damn.
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as jmitch at snet.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From mattw at webtripper.com  Sat May  3 17:43:54 2008
From: mattw at webtripper.com (Matt Wehland)
Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 19:43:54 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
References: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1209858234.8948.11.camel@mattw-laptop>

On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 21:54 +0000, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote:
> my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to purchase for us a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere dealer.
> 
> $2,800.
For that kind of coin I'd be looking at a used professional ZTR.

How much land do you have to mow?

Is it hydrostatic?
While I will drive a cheap (used, beat up) gear mower, if I was to spend
real money on one it would be hydrostatic.

You could check on 
  http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/lawn-garden/

I'm not sure how much info on JD lawn tractors there is there, I spend
my time in the BIG BOY's Toys (tm :-) forum.

I just stopped by my local green dealer and found a new 5103 MFWD
sitting there with 522 loader.
Make it a 5303 and give me some land to use it on and I'll take it (in a
few years maybe :-(


Matt Wehland

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sat May  3 18:07:46 2008
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 00:07:46 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
Message-ID: <050420080007.1560.481CFE52000395BC00000618220702163304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

it is a hydrostatic, we've got 3 acres, and I'd have gotten a new ztr from the big-box for less.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Matt Wehland <mattw at webtripper.com>
> On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 21:54 +0000, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote:
> > my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to purchase for us 
> a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere dealer.
> > 
> > $2,800.
> For that kind of coin I'd be looking at a used professional ZTR.
> 
> How much land do you have to mow?
> 
> Is it hydrostatic?
> While I will drive a cheap (used, beat up) gear mower, if I was to spend
> real money on one it would be hydrostatic.

From bill at gingerich.us  Sat May  3 21:31:28 2008
From: bill at gingerich.us (Bill Gingerich)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 22:31:28 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
References: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <004601c8ad97$57309dd0$64dea8c0@shack2>

Scott,

Here's my take on JD and others.  I bought a used 1999 JD 345 from a Deere
dealer in 2005.  I had 3 acres of grass in southern Minnesota.  I paid $3200
for it.  It had about 600 hours on it when I bought it.  54" deck, power
steering, hydro drive, hydro deck lift, and PTO.  I added a 42" snow thrower
to the package later, for my 700 foot driveway.  In the 2 years I had it, it
never hiccupped.  I'd heard the same "professional vs. homeowner" argument
before, and I asked the JD dealer if it were true.  His response was than if
it's the same model number, it's the same tractor regardless of whether you
buy it from Home Depot or the Deere dealer.  He said what you get from the
Deere dealer is availability of higher end tractors that are heavier duty
and allow you to use additional accessories.  But an LT100 is an LT100,
regardless of where you buy it.  Since I hadn't bought my tractor yet, and
was just kicking tires, I saw no reason for him to lie to me.  I still could
have gone somewhere else at that point.  I ended up selling that tractor
when we moved to Oklahoma.

I now have about 2 acres of mowable lawn, and purchased a new 42" Sears
tractor in August of 2006 for about $1750.  I wanted a JD again, but
couldn't spare the extra cash at the time.  The Sears unit has worked
perfectly so far, but only has about 50 hours on it.  Hydro drive, manual
deck lift, no PS.  It does the job, but I'd take my old JD back any day.  It
was a much heavier duty tractor, and, while costing noticeably more, I feel
it was worth it.  Do I really need a JD?  No, what I have does the job.  Do
I really wish I had a JD?  Darn right!    

If you can get the same model from HD or Lowes for less, go for it.

BillG
Newalla, OK



-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+bill=gingerich.us at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+bill=gingerich.us at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
scott.hall at comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 4:55 PM
To: Shop Talk List
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?

my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to purchase for
us a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere dealer.

$2,800.

that does not include tool-time heidi coming over for 'servicing' (what?
seemed fair for that coin).

comparable deere- (and other-) branded tractors (actually--not comparable,
much, much better spec-ed) are about $1700 in big box stores.

so, before I return this thing to the dealership, can anyone tell me about
deere tractors?  it's just a 42" kawasaki-v-twin engined lawn mower.

the salesman sold my wife with the increased warranty and told her
everything at the 'crap' hardware stores was 'consumer' grade, but this fine
hunk of machinery was for 'professionals' (maybe a lot of pros use 42"
decked mower tractors, I don't know).

anyhow, it is different from the big-box models, and I assume the big-box
ones are ayp (american yard products) machines with deere green paint and
stickers.  but...$1,000 more?  basically, can anyone tell me about 'real'
deere tractors, and give me any kind of actual reason I shouldn't take this
thing back right now?  thicker deck, better tranny, etc.?  and how *much*
better?

the extra warranty would be nice if it were free.  I wouldn't pay $.25 for
it.  the deck has a nice adjuster.  it will get adjusted once then left
there forever.  it seems to have a pto on it.  we have nothing that runs off
a pto and never will.  any tractor will live in a garage and get maintained
regularly.

ultimately: will it last that much longer and run ~100% better over that
lifespan to justify the stinging pain I have right now in my butt?

I'm never going out of town again.  damn.

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Sat May  3 21:55:34 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 23:55:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
References: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805032353480.15755@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Sat, 3 May 2008, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote:
> my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to purchase 
> for us a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere 
> dealer.
>
> $2,800.

You're complaining because your wife bought tools?

> ultimately: will it last that much longer and run ~100% better over that 
> lifespan to justify the stinging pain I have right now in my butt?

I dunno about any of that, but if I was using the thing to mow the grass, 
I'd take it back and go get a zero turn mower for about the same money.  I 
think I saw a John Deere brand (:-) 48" deck zero turn at Lowes today for 
$2800, actually.

Mark

From parkanzky at gmail.com  Sun May  4 08:46:11 2008
From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 10:46:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805032353480.15755@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <050320082154.4045.481CDF2F0002CF7B00000FCD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805032353480.15755@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <B2984DE0-815B-475D-AA26-9996D033B301@gmail.com>

I just bought a new Zero Turn at Home Depot yesterday.  I didn't see a  
48" green option for $2800.  I did see that for $3600.  I bought the  
50" Cub Cadet for $3k.  I had a really hard time trying to decide if  
the Deere was worth another $600.  The Cub also has a three year  
warranty instead of two.  The Deere is nicer, with solid connections  
between the levers and hydrostatic transmissions and a rear engine  
shroud thing.  But I am sick enough over spending $3k on a tool I'd  
rather not use, so I decided not to spend 20% more.

-Paul

On May 3, 2008, at 11:55 PM, Mark Andy <mark at sccaprepared.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> On Sat, 3 May 2008, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote:
>> my wife went off her meds recently and took it upon herself to  
>> purchase
>> for us a spanking new john deere lawn tractor from the local deere
>> dealer.
>>
>> $2,800.
>
> You're complaining because your wife bought tools?
>
>> ultimately: will it last that much longer and run ~100% better over  
>> that
>> lifespan to justify the stinging pain I have right now in my butt?
>
> I dunno about any of that, but if I was using the thing to mow the  
> grass,
> I'd take it back and go get a zero turn mower for about the same  
> money.  I
> think I saw a John Deere brand (:-) 48" deck zero turn at Lowes  
> today for
> $2800,

From mark at bradakis.com  Sun May  4 11:49:15 2008
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 11:49:15 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] Team.Net spring fund drive
Message-ID: <481DF71B.1050702@bradakis.com>

Gee, the beginning days of May, usually  pleasant spring weather.
Woke up to 34 degrees F with light snow falling the other morning
here in Salt Lake City.  Nice.  Springtime indeed!

Seasoned subscribers know the drill, here's an outline for others.
The Team.Net mailing lists -  http://www.team.net/mailman/listinfo
and http://www.team.net/cgi-bin/majorcool ( I'm slowly getting
around to moving all the lists from majordomo to mailman )
FTP site, archives, wiki ( http://www.team.net/the-local ) are all
run by some dweeb who spends too much time hiding out in a
basement office whacking on computers instead of working on
and driving his cars.

Basically it is a labor of love that has been going on for roughly
20 years, 17 years since the Team.Net domain was registered on
April 11, 1991.  But there are some out of pocket expenses that
are needed to keep things going.  So once or twice a year I ask
for funding assistance to help cover the costs of this "free" service.

So if you have a few extra bucks on hand and want to stimulate the
Team.Net economy, check out http://www.team.net/donate.html
for details.

Thanks,
mjb.

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sun May  4 12:26:47 2008
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 18:26:47 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
Message-ID: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

that's exactly where I'm at--yes, my wife bought a tool.  but it's a tool I'd rather never use ($2800 will buy a lot of lawn service) and now that we have it it's going to be that much harder to avoid mowing.  I want it to make mowing as painless as possible and have low costs of ownership.  that's it.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Paul Parkanzky <parkanzky at gmail.com>
> I just bought a new Zero Turn at Home Depot yesterday.  I didn't see a  
> 48" green option for $2800.  I did see that for $3600.  I bought the  
> 50" Cub Cadet for $3k.  I had a really hard time trying to decide if  
> the Deere was worth another $600.  The Cub also has a three year  
> warranty instead of two.  The Deere is nicer, with solid connections  
> between the levers and hydrostatic transmissions and a rear engine  
> shroud thing.  But I am sick enough over spending $3k on a tool I'd  
> rather not use, so I decided not to spend 20% more.

From parkanzky at gmail.com  Sun May  4 13:37:12 2008
From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 15:37:12 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <bdde53220805041237q7898eb61pc3adfd0f39c46178@mail.gmail.com>

I would have loved to get a lawn service instead of the mower, but we
were quoted $1200-1250/season for a service.  That was above our
tipping point for buying the zero turn.

-Paul

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 2:26 PM,  <scott.hall at comcast.net> wrote:
> that's exactly where I'm at--yes, my wife bought a tool.  but it's a tool I'd rather never use ($2800 will buy a lot of lawn service) and now that we have it it's going to be that much harder to avoid mowing.  I want it to make mowing as painless as possible and have low costs of ownership.  that's it.
>
>
>   -------------- Original message ----------------------
>  From: Paul Parkanzky <parkanzky at gmail.com>
>  > I just bought a new Zero Turn at Home Depot yesterday.  I didn't see a
>  > 48" green option for $2800.  I did see that for $3600.  I bought the
>  > 50" Cub Cadet for $3k.  I had a really hard time trying to decide if
>  > the Deere was worth another $600.  The Cub also has a three year
>  > warranty instead of two.  The Deere is nicer, with solid connections
>  > between the levers and hydrostatic transmissions and a rear engine
>  > shroud thing.  But I am sick enough over spending $3k on a tool I'd
>  > rather not use, so I decided not to spend 20% more.

From shiples at comcast.net  Sun May  4 15:20:39 2008
From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 14:20:39 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <bdde53220805041237q7898eb61pc3adfd0f39c46178@mail.gmail.co
  m>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>

At 03:37 PM 5/4/2008 -0400, Paul Parkanzky wrote:
>I would have loved to get a lawn service instead of the mower, but we
>were quoted $1200-1250/season for a service.  That was above our
>tipping point for buying the zero turn.
>
>-Paul

I'm on my way out to mow a couple of urban lawns.  In my world,
they're building an additional 4 units in the back yards of 1000sqft
houses and it's feeling a bit crowded around here. The city isn't
as attractive as it used to be.

How much time does it take to mow 2 or 3 acres?

From gsteve at hammatt.com  Sun May  4 15:31:47 2008
From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 14:31:47 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net><050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8487F4FBEE384D7B81BD671A94E14398@DesktopPC>

I am about to mow my pasture (1-1/4 acre max) and 
usually takes me around 70 minutes if the grass level 
isn't too high.  I use a JD 176 with 45" mulching deck. 
Gotta go now........before it rains again!
Steve
Mount Vernon WA USA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Shipley" <shiples at comcast.net>
To: "Shop Talk List" <>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?


> At 03:37 PM 5/4/2008 -0400, Paul Parkanzky wrote:
>>I would have loved to get a lawn service instead of the mower, but we
>>were quoted $1200-1250/season for a service.  That was above our
>>tipping point for buying the zero turn.
>>
>>-Paul
> 
> I'm on my way out to mow a couple of urban lawns.  In my world,
> they're building an additional 4 units in the back yards of 1000sqft
> houses and it's feeling a bit crowded around here. The city isn't
> as attractive as it used to be.
> 
> How much time does it take to mow 2 or 3 acres?
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as gsteve at hammatt.com
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Sun May  4 16:08:26 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 18:08:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <00ac01c8abf2$9c24c570$6401a8c0@niolon>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>

Since most of the people here are also on various car list, I thought
I'd ask the question here vise several list.

I'm working on my dad's 40 Parckard streight 8 engine (flat head).  We've 
pull the head and had it decked and we're going to replace the studs.
What is the consensous as to weither we should up locktite on the 
threads of the studs that go into the block?

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com  Sun May  4 18:47:31 2008
From: Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com (Pat)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 19:47:31 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <481E5923.8050900@HorneSystemsTx.com>

I mow about 5 acres of lawn, meadow and orchard with a John Deere STX46. 
It takes me about 5 hours, including trimming around the trees, so about 
4 hours on the rider. If I let the grass get too tall it can take all day.

I also have an old International Harvester Super C tractor with a 5' 
shreader. It takes me more than 8 hours to shread the 10 acre hay field. 
Seems like it would take longer on the JD, but the hay is usually 3-4' 
tall, which the JD couldn't handle at any speed!

The rest of the place I just let the cattle and goats keep it mowed!

Peace,
Pat


Thusly spake Steve Shipley:
> At 03:37 PM 5/4/2008 -0400, Paul Parkanzky wrote:
>   
>> I would have loved to get a lawn service instead of the mower, but we
>> were quoted $1200-1250/season for a service.  That was above our
>> tipping point for buying the zero turn.
>>
>> -Paul
>>     
>
> I'm on my way out to mow a couple of urban lawns.  In my world,
> they're building an additional 4 units in the back yards of 1000sqft
> houses and it's feeling a bit crowded around here. The city isn't
> as attractive as it used to be.
>
> How much time does it take to mow 2 or 3 acres?
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
>
>
>   

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com  Sun May  4 18:53:16 2008
From: Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com (Pat)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 19:53:16 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <481E5A7C.3070001@HorneSystemsTx.com>

I wouldn't use locktite on my head studs, sometimes you need to take the 
stud out to get the head off if corrosion has set in between the head 
and bolt We have this trouble on the Datsun Roadsters  (1962-1970). The 
aluminum thermostat tower is secured with steel studs to the head. If 
the tower stays on for more than a few years it is almost impossible to 
get it off without damaging it. The Roadster crowd has been going to 
bolts to hold it on and coating the bolts with anti-seize compound. 
Makes things a lot easier to work with later.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake John T. Blair:
> Since most of the people here are also on various car list, I thought
> I'd ask the question here vise several list.
>
> I'm working on my dad's 40 Parckard streight 8 engine (flat head).  We've 
> pull the head and had it decked and we're going to replace the studs.
> What is the consensous as to weither we should up locktite on the 
> threads of the studs that go into the block?
>
> John
>
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va             
> Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
> Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
>
>
>   

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From chad at linuxeg.com  Sun May  4 19:14:19 2008
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chad on LEG)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 21:14:19 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
References: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <067f01c8ae4d$590ba7b0$6101a8c0@tardis>

Do they go into the water jacket? If so ARP
makes a sealent for use on head bolts (studs).
chad

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:08 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs


> Since most of the people here are also on various car list, I thought
> I'd ask the question here vise several list.
>
> I'm working on my dad's 40 Parckard streight 8 engine (flat head).  We've
> pull the head and had it decked and we're going to replace the studs.
> What is the consensous as to weither we should up locktite on the
> threads of the studs that go into the block?
>
> John
>
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va
> Phone:  (757) 495-8229
>
>          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                       65 Rambler Classic
>
> Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
> Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as chad at linuxeg.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Sun May  4 19:43:45 2008
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 21:43:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <481E6651.3020102@comcast.net>

Hi, John.

If the studs penetrate into the cooling system, Permatex would be the 
appropriate coating, otherwise I'd just put anti-sieze on them.  Better they not 
stick than stick too tight.  IMO.  But Loctite blue probably would provide some 
protection from corrosion, I suppose.

Donald.

John T. Blair wrote:
> Since most of the people here are also on various car list, I thought
> I'd ask the question here vise several list.
> 
> I'm working on my dad's 40 Parckard streight 8 engine (flat head).  We've 
> pull the head and had it decked and we're going to replace the studs.
> What is the consensous as to weither we should up locktite on the 
> threads of the studs that go into the block?
> 
> John

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Sun May  4 20:07:52 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 22:07:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805042207290.2455@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Sun, 4 May 2008, Steve Shipley wrote:
> How much time does it take to mow 2 or 3 acres?

About an hour longer than you have at any one time.

:-)

Mark

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sun May  4 21:36:12 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 20:36:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <422075.92819.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

AARGHH!!!  NO!!!

Doug


--- "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

> Since most of the people here are also on various
> car list, I thought
> I'd ask the question here vise several list.
> 
> I'm working on my dad's 40 Parckard streight 8
> engine (flat head).  We've 
> pull the head and had it decked and we're going to
> replace the studs.
> What is the consensous as to weither we should up
> locktite on the 
> threads of the studs that go into the block?

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sun May  4 21:57:52 2008
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 03:57:52 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
Message-ID: <050520080357.20330.481E85C00009DEDC00004F6A220588448404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

my new yard (3 acres, mostly grass) is actually quicker than the old 1/2 acre or so--it's a big flat rectangle with a house in the middle.  I bet 90 minutes, maybe 2 hours with the blower and some trimming start to finish.  that's with the new mower.

the old yard was a nightmare, but mostly because I sold the pos snapper rider and pushed.  but the yard was hilly and had very thick grass.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Steve Shipley <shiples at comcast.net>

> I'm on my way out to mow a couple of urban lawns.  In my world,
> they're building an additional 4 units in the back yards of 1000sqft
> houses and it's feeling a bit crowded around here. The city isn't
> as attractive as it used to be.

From r_rochlin at hotmail.com  Mon May  5 04:19:44 2008
From: r_rochlin at hotmail.com (Bob Rochlin)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 06:19:44 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Briggs and Stratton engine reverse polarity
Message-ID: <BAY117-DAV72CD235327D3DC7013F869FD70@phx.gbl>

Last week my daughters boyfriend tried to jump start my old Case Lawn
Tractor and reversed the polarity in the process.  It now gets no spark.
The engine is so old that it's not really worth replacing the whole ignition
system, but if I could figure out which component was bad I might be able to
replace just that one component.  In thinking about it I can't really see
how reversing the polarity would fry a magneto ignition system, but I'm no
expert. Blown out capacitor maybe?  Any advice appreciated.

 

 
Bob

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Mon May  5 05:37:16 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 07:37:16 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <481E6651.3020102@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
	<3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080505073716.00aad2b0@pop.east.cox.net>

Thanks to everyone that replied.  The concensus is to not use locktite,
but use some antiseize on the smooth shaft of the stud to keep
the head from sticking to the studs.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Mon May  5 06:30:43 2008
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 00:30:43 -1200
Subject: [Shop-talk] ***SPAM*** Briggs and Stratton engine reverse
 polarity
Message-ID: <481efdf3.205.b3e9.1646496057@ml2.myemail.com>

Isn't this your daughter's boyfriend's problem?

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC 


> Last week my daughters boyfriend tried to jump start my
> old Case Lawn Tractor and reversed the polarity in the
> process.  It now gets no spark. 
>  
> Bob
Login from home, work, school.  Anywhere!

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon May  5 08:53:52 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:53:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080505073716.00aad2b0@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <3.0.5.32.20080504180826.00aa3db0@pop.east.cox.net>
	<481E6651.3020102@comcast.net>
	<3.0.5.32.20080505073716.00aad2b0@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805050753q3646ae86heb5dab261bbfb88b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:37 AM, John T. Blair <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone that replied.  The concensus is to not use locktite,
>  but use some antiseize on the smooth shaft of the stud to keep
>  the head from sticking to the studs.
>

Use anti-seize on the threads of the studs, too.


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Mon May  5 09:00:49 2008
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:00:49 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] MORE BRIGGS/STRATTON
Message-ID: <5BAB07C4691D488893DD8203633097B6@OwnerPC>

Had a little (very little) time to play with my B&S intertec engine this
weekend...

changed to a new plug... no go
removed carb and cleaned... no go
changed fuel filter and assure gas flow   no go
inserted spark checker in place of plug.. no spark
checked (and bypassed) kill switch (which checked good)  no go
my arm is tired

so now I'm assuming a ignition module problem,...  right ??
is there any reason to pull flywheel and look at the trigger... ??

can you check it remotely (without pulling the recoil and flywheel ??

ignition modules ???
who know what about them ??  can you trouble shoot them
or is it just remove/replace ???


thanks
John



If you are young, and not liberal, then you don't have a heart. If you are
old, and not conservative, then you don't have a brain." Winston Churchill

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Mon May  5 13:37:28 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:37:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack bleeding
In-Reply-To: <002b01c8aad7$67852a10$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301110220.20016@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<002b01c8aad7$67852a10$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805051534110.21669@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Nolan wrote:
> You might find this helpful
> http://www.hyjacks.com/H7.HTM

That was quite helpful... Thanks!

Ok, now the jack is working "crappy" like it used to work, instead of "not 
at all" like it was prior to bleeding.

This jack has two plunger/piston things on it, presumably to enable the 
fast rise.

I like the fast rise, but when there's some weight on the thing it seems 
like most of my stroke is going into make the jack make some noise, then 
the last little bit it raises the car a touch.  So its like a ton of pumps 
to raise the car.

Is that normal for a fast raise jack?

Any suggestions?

I bought the thing as Sam's club a year or two ago.  So "take it back" 
doesn't really work, since I dunno where the receipt is.  I'm not really 
even sure where the manual is.

Mark

From peteb at clear.net.nz  Mon May  5 16:04:58 2008
From: peteb at clear.net.nz (Pete Bronlund)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:04:58 +1200
Subject: [Shop-talk] MORE BRIGGS/STRATTON
In-Reply-To: <5BAB07C4691D488893DD8203633097B6@OwnerPC>
References: <5BAB07C4691D488893DD8203633097B6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <83F6B36C0BCC4D9980FAC15CA9F07C89@PeteLappie>

Hi John

IS this the B&S "INTEK" engine, and if so is it the single cylinder or twin?

I've a friend who builds 2-man hovercraft and flicked me a CDROM B&S Service 
Manual a while back.
Been a handy reference for fixing my push mower with its L-series head and 
helped me get to know B&S engines real well.

Anyway... no spark must mean something is keeping the HT volts from being 
generated. FWIW is the stop switch working
properly ie making a short in one position and open another?

Let us know if its the Intek and if its a single or twin cylinder.

Pete




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john niolon" <jniolon at bham.rr.com>
To: "shop-talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:00 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] MORE BRIGGS/STRATTON


> Had a little (very little) time to play with my B&S intertec engine this
> weekend...
>
> changed to a new plug... no go
> removed carb and cleaned... no go
> changed fuel filter and assure gas flow   no go
> inserted spark checker in place of plug.. no spark
> checked (and bypassed) kill switch (which checked good)  no go
> my arm is tired
>
> so now I'm assuming a ignition module problem,...  right ??
> is there any reason to pull flywheel and look at the trigger... ??
>
> can you check it remotely (without pulling the recoil and flywheel ??
>
> ignition modules ???
> who know what about them ??  can you trouble shoot them
> or is it just remove/replace ???
>
>
> thanks
> John
>
>
>
> If you are young, and not liberal, then you don't have a heart. If you are
> old, and not conservative, then you don't have a brain." Winston Churchill
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as peteb at clear.net.nz
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 4/05/2008 
> 12:31 p.m.

From brabel at dlux.net  Mon May  5 18:33:28 2008
From: brabel at dlux.net (Bill Rabel)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:33:28 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <8487F4FBEE384D7B81BD671A94E14398@DesktopPC>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net><050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
	<8487F4FBEE384D7B81BD671A94E14398@DesktopPC>
Message-ID: <5E32B695-B8E9-4E52-8AC4-173E49790C52@dlux.net>

I just spent the weekend with my JD 38" mower. One feature that really  
clicked when I bought it was that all the steering linkage is cad- 
plated. Absolutely no rust in about eight years.

Unfortunately, one needs to check the oil more often than that -- I  
replaced the engine last year.

Sunday, I was mowing and heard a 'bang', and the mowing function took  
on a real can-full-of-rocks sound. The mowing got progressively worse  
on the RH side blade, and I stopped and examined the machine.

The sheave and shaft driving the blade had come apart, and the sheave  
was sawing its way through the shaft threads. Removal was a cinch. I  
also discovered that the OTHER shaft assembly was extremely hot. The  
bearings felt pretty lumpy. I guess I'll be buying two new shaft  
assemblies tomorrow. Each of them has a grease zerk that is not  
mentioned in the maintenance diagram (not that I've done any of that,  
either.).

Bottom line is that the machine is hugely dependable, and tolerates  
neglect like a big American car from the 50's. Great machine. I will  
add a cupholder this season...


- Bill Rabel
   Anacortes, WA

From Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com  Mon May  5 18:47:06 2008
From: Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com (Pat)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 19:47:06 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <5E32B695-B8E9-4E52-8AC4-173E49790C52@dlux.net>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net><050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
	<8487F4FBEE384D7B81BD671A94E14398@DesktopPC>
	<5E32B695-B8E9-4E52-8AC4-173E49790C52@dlux.net>
Message-ID: <481FAA8A.7020000@HorneSystemsTx.com>

Bill,

I also had spindles go out on my STX-46 The belt pulleys came loose from 
the spindle, eating up the pulley and the shaft.

After picking up the new ones I welded the pulley nut to the pulley so 
it wouldn't work loose again. ?That was 3 or 4 years ago and it has been 
working fine ever since. Now all I need to do is find a replacement for 
the $65 mower belt that I've only found at the dealer! I seem to eat one 
about ever or every other year.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Bill Rabel:
> I just spent the weekend with my JD 38" mower. One feature that really  
> clicked when I bought it was that all the steering linkage is cad- 
> plated. Absolutely no rust in about eight years.
>
> Unfortunately, one needs to check the oil more often than that -- I  
> replaced the engine last year.
>
> Sunday, I was mowing and heard a 'bang', and the mowing function took  
> on a real can-full-of-rocks sound. The mowing got progressively worse  
> on the RH side blade, and I stopped and examined the machine.
>
> The sheave and shaft driving the blade had come apart, and the sheave  
> was sawing its way through the shaft threads. Removal was a cinch. I  
> also discovered that the OTHER shaft assembly was extremely hot. The  
> bearings felt pretty lumpy. I guess I'll be buying two new shaft  
> assemblies tomorrow. Each of them has a grease zerk that is not  
> mentioned in the maintenance diagram (not that I've done any of that,  
> either.).
>
> Bottom line is that the machine is hugely dependable, and tolerates  
> neglect like a big American car from the 50's. Great machine. I will  
> add a cupholder this season...
>
>
> - Bill Rabel
>    Anacortes, WA
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as pat at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive
>
>
>
>   

-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Mon May  5 19:00:53 2008
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 21:00:53 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <481FAA8A.7020000@HorneSystemsTx.com>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net><050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
	<8487F4FBEE384D7B81BD671A94E14398@DesktopPC>
	<5E32B695-B8E9-4E52-8AC4-173E49790C52@dlux.net>
	<481FAA8A.7020000@HorneSystemsTx.com>
Message-ID: <481FADC5.2050904@comcast.net>

Back when I had money and a [teeny] bit of land I owned a Gravely walk-behind 
with a 42 inch deck.  Never a hiccough, all lube points readily identifiable, 
easy to drive and maintain.

Only problem I ever had was when I caught a black walnut between the blade and a 
guard on the underside of the deck.  Bent the guard substantially and the blade 
a little.  Flame cut some stock to make a new guard, beat the blade back into 
shape and watched _very_ closely for those walnuts and all was well.

Donald.

Pat wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> I also had spindles go out on my STX-46 The belt pulleys came loose from 
> the spindle, eating up the pulley and the shaft.
> 
> After picking up the new ones I welded the pulley nut to the pulley so 
> it wouldn't work loose again. ?That was 3 or 4 years ago and it has been 
> working fine ever since. Now all I need to do is find a replacement for 
> the $65 mower belt that I've only found at the dealer! I seem to eat one 
> about ever or every other year.
> 
> Peace,
> Pat
> 
> Thusly spake Bill Rabel:
>> I just spent the weekend with my JD 38" mower. One feature that really  
>> clicked when I bought it was that all the steering linkage is cad- 
>> plated. Absolutely no rust in about eight years.

[snip]

From hal at katemuir.com  Mon May  5 21:11:12 2008
From: hal at katemuir.com (Hal Faulkner)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:11:12 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080505073716.00aad2b0@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <HJECLIGCCJIHGFIGICMFAEEBGPAA.hal@katemuir.com>

John,
I would have read the responses to be use anti-seize compound on the
threads, not necessarily on the smooth shaft.  BTW, ARP says that loctite is
not usually necessary BUT if you do use it be certain to torque the
fasteners to their reccommended setting BEFORE the locktite sets up.
Hal

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+hal=katemuir.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+hal=katemuir.com at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of
John T. Blair
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:37 AM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs


Thanks to everyone that replied.  The concensus is to not use locktite,
but use some antiseize on the smooth shaft of the stud to keep
the head from sticking to the studs.

John

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Mon May  5 22:08:41 2008
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 00:08:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <HJECLIGCCJIHGFIGICMFAEEBGPAA.hal@katemuir.com>
References: <HJECLIGCCJIHGFIGICMFAEEBGPAA.hal@katemuir.com>
Message-ID: <481FD9C9.7010109@xxiii.com>

> I would have read the responses to be use anti-seize compound on the
> threads, not necessarily on the smooth shaft.  BTW, ARP says that loctite is

I should have gotten on this earlier...  but wanted to mention lubed vs 
dry threads can make a HUGE difference in torque specs.  I read one 
article that suggested de-rating the torque spec as much as 80% for an 
oiled thread, if the original spec was dry!

I would consider the manufacturer's specs first;  seems like older 
domestic engines I've read about say the spec is oiled.  I don't see any 
point in anti-seize or Loctite.  But my serious engine tweaking is 
limited to Nissan SR20s (though I'm damn good at it!)

The best thing is angular tightening, which has become quite common on 
modern engines from what I pick up.  This is the equivalent of the 
dial-gauge rod bolt tightening (stretch measurement) but into a blind 
thread.  For example, on the Nissan engine, they approximately spec:
Tighten to 30 ft/lbs
Tighten to 60 ft/lbs
Loosen all bolts
Tighten to 30 ft/lbs
Turn all bolts 90 degrees
Turn all bolts another 90 degrees

This produced very consistent tightening (bolt stretch) independent of 
thread friction.

   -Wayne

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon May  5 22:15:32 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 00:15:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <481FD9C9.7010109@xxiii.com>
References: <HJECLIGCCJIHGFIGICMFAEEBGPAA.hal@katemuir.com>
	<481FD9C9.7010109@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805052115j50aeeb28k9577cca8acfe9d20@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:08 AM, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> > I would have read the responses to be use anti-seize compound on the
>  > threads, not necessarily on the smooth shaft.  BTW, ARP says that loctite is
>
>  I should have gotten on this earlier...  but wanted to mention lubed vs
>  dry threads can make a HUGE difference in torque specs.  I read one
>  article that suggested de-rating the torque spec as much as 80% for an
>  oiled thread, if the original spec was dry!
>
>  I would consider the manufacturer's specs first;  seems like older
>  domestic engines I've read about say the spec is oiled.  I don't see any
>  point in anti-seize or Loctite.  But my serious engine tweaking is
>  limited to Nissan SR20s (though I'm damn good at it!)

Anti-seize serves as a thread lubricant, and helps ensure that the
engine comes apart the next time you take it apart.  Loctite does
that, with the bonus of not coming apart before you take it apart.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From opposumking at verizon.net  Tue May  6 04:04:39 2008
From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 06:04:39 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack bleeding
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301110220.20016@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<002b01c8aad7$67852a10$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805051534110.21669@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <002801c8af60$98f58e90$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>

> I like the fast rise, but when there's some weight on the thing it seems
> like most of my stroke is going into make the jack make some noise, then
> the last little bit it raises the car a touch.

Sounds to me like you're either low on fluid or your seals are shot.

When the jack handle is moving down the piston is moving down, and the jack 
should be raising for the entire stroke, not just the end of the stroke.  If 
the jack starts to "run out of breath" as it goes up, that's fairly 
indicative of being low on fluid.  If it does this regardless of height, 
it's more likely a seal problem.

From opposumking at verizon.net  Tue May  6 04:14:43 2008
From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 06:14:43 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] MORE BRIGGS/STRATTON
References: <5BAB07C4691D488893DD8203633097B6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <003d01c8af62$016a7930$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>

What do you mean you bypassed the kill switch?  If you jumpered it to 
ground, that's how you kill the ignition.  You want the wire free from 
contacting metal, then the ignition can make a spark. 

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Tue May  6 05:41:55 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 04:41:55 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <HJECLIGCCJIHGFIGICMFAEEBGPAA.hal@katemuir.com>
Message-ID: <20080506114154.YZNQ22929.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall>

> I would have read the responses to be use anti-seize compound 
> on the threads, not necessarily on the smooth shaft.

Can't comment on what others meant, but IMO anti-seize on the shaft is a
good idea.  Especially if the head is a different metal than the stud (which
likely isn't the case for John).

Randall

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Tue May  6 05:48:32 2008
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 06:48:32 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] MORE BRIGGS/STRATTON
In-Reply-To: <83F6B36C0BCC4D9980FAC15CA9F07C89@PeteLappie>
References: <5BAB07C4691D488893DD8203633097B6@OwnerPC>
	<83F6B36C0BCC4D9980FAC15CA9F07C89@PeteLappie>
Message-ID: <A254142D657E4DBC84C609C2D55D329E@OwnerPC>

Hi Pete.

Yes it's an INTEK Pro 206   family 4BSXS2051HF 275821  (that's all the 
numbers I could find)
single cylinder 6.5 h.p.  horizontal shaft.

The kill switch was taken out of the circuit so there was no ground fault in 
the ignition system
There is oil in the case so I don't think it's not the oil level sensor 
grounding it either.

john
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pete Bronlund" <peteb at clear.net.nz>
To: "john niolon" <jniolon at bham.rr.com>; "shop-talk" 
<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] MORE BRIGGS/STRATTON


>
> Hi John
>
> IS this the B&S "INTEK" engine, and if so is it the single cylinder or 
> twin?
>
> I've a friend who builds 2-man hovercraft and flicked me a CDROM B&S 
> Service Manual a while back.
> Been a handy reference for fixing my push mower with its L-series head and 
> helped me get to know B&S engines real well.
>
> Anyway... no spark must mean something is keeping the HT volts from being 
> generated. FWIW is the stop switch working
> properly ie making a short in one position and open another?
>
> Let us know if its the Intek and if its a single or twin cylinder.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "john niolon" <jniolon at bham.rr.com>
> To: "shop-talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:00 AM
> Subject: [Shop-talk] MORE BRIGGS/STRATTON
>
>
>> Had a little (very little) time to play with my B&S intertec engine this
>> weekend...
>>
>> changed to a new plug... no go
>> removed carb and cleaned... no go
>> changed fuel filter and assure gas flow   no go
>> inserted spark checker in place of plug.. no spark
>> checked (and bypassed) kill switch (which checked good)  no go
>> my arm is tired
>>
>> so now I'm assuming a ignition module problem,...  right ??
>> is there any reason to pull flywheel and look at the trigger... ??
>>
>> can you check it remotely (without pulling the recoil and flywheel ??
>>
>> ignition modules ???
>> who know what about them ??  can you trouble shoot them
>> or is it just remove/replace ???
>>
>>
>> thanks
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are young, and not liberal, then you don't have a heart. If you 
>> are
>> old, and not conservative, then you don't have a brain." Winston 
>> Churchill
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> You are subscribed as peteb at clear.net.nz
>>
>> Shop-talk mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>>
>> http://www.team.net/archive
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1414 - Release Date: 
>> 4/05/2008 12:31 p.m.

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue May  6 05:56:32 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 07:56:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <20080506114154.YZNQ22929.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall
  >
References: <HJECLIGCCJIHGFIGICMFAEEBGPAA.hal@katemuir.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080506075632.00a85e48@pop.east.cox.net>

At 04:41 AM 5/6/2008 -0700, Randall wrote:

>> I would have read the responses to be use anti-seize compound 
>> on the threads, not necessarily on the smooth shaft.
>
>Can't comment on what others meant, but IMO anti-seize on the shaft is a
>good idea.  Especially if the head is a different metal than the stud (which
>likely isn't the case for John).

We had the that problem with the Ford flat head engine in our
Midget race car.  It took us about a week or two to get the
heads off due to the bolts, heads getting fused to each other.

That's what I'm trying to prevent. :)  

Thanks to everyone for the input.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From doug at dougbraun.com  Tue May  6 06:00:45 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 05:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cute new tools I saw
Message-ID: <384888.91447.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A Lowe's the other weekend I noticed a couple of
clever wrenches I hadn't seen before:

The first was a pair of quad-size ratcheting box end
wrenches.  Each end of a wrench had an opening for two
sizes, stacked together.  You would flip the wrench
over to use the other size.  The only compromise was
that the ends of the wrenches were twice as thick as a
regular box end wrench.  So, the pair of wrenches gave
you 8 sizes.

The other was a socket set designed quite differently
than normal. Instead of the ratchet having a square
drive that fits into a square hole on the socket,
their ratchet had a big torx-style hole, and the
sockets had a matching pattern around the outside of
the back end.  The supposed benefit of this was that
it was like a (sturdier) ratcheting box-end wrench,
and you could put it over a long bolt to reach the
nut.  They looked really butch, but I'm not sure how
useful they really were.  And I have no idea if there
was a special extension for them.

Is father's day coming up soon?  (Or is it mother's
day?)

Doug

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Tue May  6 06:35:38 2008
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 07:35:38 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cute new tools I saw
In-Reply-To: <384888.91447.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <384888.91447.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C05E90B022DB449C95288CAC02B30453@OwnerPC>

Doug,

several years ago I picked up a set of Armstrong "thru the hole" sockets... 
same design as you describe.  something like 15 sockets and a ratchet 
handle.  I got a good deal andI had the same idea you had... they might be 
handy.  I think I've had them out of the case one time :-(   But, they do 
look good in the tool box.

John


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Braun" <doug at dougbraun.com>
To: "Shop-Talk List" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 7:00 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cute new tools I saw


>A Lowe's the other weekend I noticed a couple of
> clever wrenches I hadn't seen before:
>
> The first was a pair of quad-size ratcheting box end
> wrenches.  Each end of a wrench had an opening for two
> sizes, stacked together.  You would flip the wrench
> over to use the other size.  The only compromise was
> that the ends of the wrenches were twice as thick as a
> regular box end wrench.  So, the pair of wrenches gave
> you 8 sizes.
>
> The other was a socket set designed quite differently
> than normal. Instead of the ratchet having a square
> drive that fits into a square hole on the socket,
> their ratchet had a big torx-style hole, and the
> sockets had a matching pattern around the outside of
> the back end.  The supposed benefit of this was that
> it was like a (sturdier) ratcheting box-end wrench,
> and you could put it over a long bolt to reach the
> nut.  They looked really butch, but I'm not sure how
> useful they really were.  And I have no idea if there
> was a special extension for them.
>
> Is father's day coming up soon?  (Or is it mother's
> day?)
>
> Doug
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as jniolon at bham.rr.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Tue May  6 07:12:28 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:12:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack bleeding
In-Reply-To: <002801c8af60$98f58e90$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301110220.20016@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<002b01c8aad7$67852a10$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805051534110.21669@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<002801c8af60$98f58e90$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805060911261.6087@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Tue, 6 May 2008, Nolan wrote:

>> I like the fast rise, but when there's some weight on the thing it seems
>> like most of my stroke is going into make the jack make some noise, then
>> the last little bit it raises the car a touch.
>
> Sounds to me like you're either low on fluid or your seals are shot.
>
> When the jack handle is moving down the piston is moving down, and the jack
> should be raising for the entire stroke, not just the end of the stroke.  If
> the jack starts to "run out of breath" as it goes up, that's fairly
> indicative of being low on fluid.  If it does this regardless of height,
> it's more likely a seal problem.

I've been discounting "seal problem" because I've never seen any jack 
fluid on the floor... Are there seals internal to the jack that won't leak 
out fluid if they fail?

Mark

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Tue May  6 07:38:52 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:38:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack bleeding
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805060911261.6087@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301110220.20016@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<002b01c8aad7$67852a10$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805051534110.21669@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<002801c8af60$98f58e90$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805060911261.6087@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805060638o454d2edbydbe507b79a73c892@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Mark Andy <mark at sccaprepared.com> wrote:
> Howdy,
>
>
>  On Tue, 6 May 2008, Nolan wrote:
>
>  >> I like the fast rise, but when there's some weight on the thing it seems
>  >> like most of my stroke is going into make the jack make some noise, then
>  >> the last little bit it raises the car a touch.
>  >
>  > Sounds to me like you're either low on fluid or your seals are shot.
>  >
>  > When the jack handle is moving down the piston is moving down, and the jack
>  > should be raising for the entire stroke, not just the end of the stroke.  If
>  > the jack starts to "run out of breath" as it goes up, that's fairly
>  > indicative of being low on fluid.  If it does this regardless of height,
>  > it's more likely a seal problem.
>
>  I've been discounting "seal problem" because I've never seen any jack
>  fluid on the floor... Are there seals internal to the jack that won't leak
>  out fluid if they fail?

Yes. Most likely failure is the check valve in the pump, which is
intended to keep the pressurized fluid from taking the easy route back
to reservoir,  and not the hard one to the lifting cylinder.



-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From opposumking at verizon.net  Tue May  6 07:49:33 2008
From: opposumking at verizon.net (Nolan)
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 09:49:33 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] MORE BRIGGS/STRATTON
References: <5BAB07C4691D488893DD8203633097B6@OwnerPC>
	<83F6B36C0BCC4D9980FAC15CA9F07C89@PeteLappie>
	<A254142D657E4DBC84C609C2D55D329E@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <003001c8af80$07357e00$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>

> The kill switch was taken out of the circuit so there was no ground fault 
> in
> the ignition system

Actually, that only means you took the kill switch out of the circuit.  A 
ground fault may still exist.  If the magneto wire is grounded anywhere, it 
will not fire.  Many an owner has killed the ignition by installing the 
shrouds and pinching the wire for example. So check that wire all the way 
back, and make sure no where is it able to make ground.

Those magnetron units are not impervious to simply failing.  Yours may have. 
Just make darn sure that there isn't a grounding problem causing the 
ignition to not fire before buying a new magneto.

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Tue May  6 08:13:03 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:13:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack bleeding
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40805060638o454d2edbydbe507b79a73c892@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301110220.20016@mephisto.banklogic.net> 
	<002b01c8aad7$67852a10$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> 
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805051534110.21669@mephisto.banklogic.net> 
	<002801c8af60$98f58e90$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us> 
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805060911261.6087@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<2400a5d40805060638o454d2edbydbe507b79a73c892@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805061012080.10537@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Tue, 6 May 2008, David Scheidt wrote:
>>  I've been discounting "seal problem" because I've never seen any jack
>>  fluid on the floor... Are there seals internal to the jack that won't leak
>>  out fluid if they fail?
>
> Yes. Most likely failure is the check valve in the pump, which is 
> intended to keep the pressurized fluid from taking the easy route back 
> to reservoir, and not the hard one to the lifting cylinder.

Is that something I can service?  How tough is it to get to that check 
valve?

(this, of course, assumes I can find someplace to get parts...)

Mark

From doug at dougbraun.com  Tue May  6 09:12:22 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Head studs
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40805052115j50aeeb28k9577cca8acfe9d20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <296827.90184.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

good point about making bolts too slippery, but I've
never ever heard of head bolts or studs working loose.
Has anyone?

Doug
--- David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Anti-seize serves as a thread lubricant, and helps
> ensure that the
> engine comes apart the next time you take it apart. 
> Loctite does
> that, with the bonus of not coming apart before you
> take it apart.

From doug at dougbraun.com  Tue May  6 09:34:25 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:34:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] [Spits] A movie NOT for Triumph fans -
In-Reply-To: <20080506085909.5042A1878D2@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <634198.57996.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes!  The Triumph Herald convertible turned into a
sailboat!

Their greatest episode was where they tried to destroy
the Toyota Hilux pickup truck...

Doug


--- Bill Davies <bill at rarebits4classics.co.uk> wrote:

> If you really want to worry about what is done to
> decent classic cars in the
> name of entertainment, Top Gear will be a good
> starting point. They have the
> opposite philosophy - start with a good car and make
> it look bad.... then
> destroy it. 

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Tue May  6 10:04:57 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:04:57 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] jack bleeding
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805061012080.10537@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301110220.20016@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<002b01c8aad7$67852a10$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805051534110.21669@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<002801c8af60$98f58e90$230bfea9@mde.state.md.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805060911261.6087@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<2400a5d40805060638o454d2edbydbe507b79a73c892@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805061012080.10537@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805060904w94ec242j355d675034c53c19@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 10:13 AM, Mark Andy <mark at sccaprepared.com> wrote:
> Howdy,
>
>
>  On Tue, 6 May 2008, David Scheidt wrote:
>  >>  I've been discounting "seal problem" because I've never seen any jack
>  >>  fluid on the floor... Are there seals internal to the jack that won't leak
>  >>  out fluid if they fail?
>  >
>  > Yes. Most likely failure is the check valve in the pump, which is
>  > intended to keep the pressurized fluid from taking the easy route back
>  > to reservoir, and not the hard one to the lifting cylinder.
>
>  Is that something I can service?  How tough is it to get to that check
>  valve?
>
>  (this, of course, assumes I can find someplace to get parts...)

In theory.  One of the things that distinguishes good jacks is that
they're designed to be taken apart, fixed, and put back together.
Cheaper ones aren't; they've got stamped bits, welded covers, and so
on.  That's independent of whether you can actually get the parts to
fix it.  Here is the owner's manual for the Hein Werner HW93642:
http://www.shinnfuamerica.com/Library/Documents.aspx?ID=710
This basic design has been around for 60 years.  It's the same as the
old american-made lincoln jacks that every gas station had 30 years
ago.  (and many still do...).  The manual has an exploded diagram.
Your jack will be somewhat different, because it's a twin-cylinder
thing, but the basics are there.  It's basically a bunch of o-rings, a
couple springs, and a couple balls.  A bearing shop will be able to
supply all that (except maybe the springs.), but it's a lot easier to
buy a kit, if you can find one.
(Incidentally, the current Hein Werner is every bit as good as the old
lincolns were.  It's made in the USA again, even though it's now a
chinese company.  About $300 these days.)
-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Tue May  6 10:37:14 2008
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:37:14 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] john deere lawn tractors?
In-Reply-To: <5E32B695-B8E9-4E52-8AC4-173E49790C52@dlux.net>
References: <050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net><050420081826.1676.481DFFE7000594FC0000068C220288874404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20080504141133.00f7ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
	<8487F4FBEE384D7B81BD671A94E14398@DesktopPC>
	<5E32B695-B8E9-4E52-8AC4-173E49790C52@dlux.net>
Message-ID: <00a601c8af97$716731d0$54359570$@mele@usermail.com>

<<I will  
add a cupholder this season...>>

How about an oil can holder on the other side...you sip coffee, engine sips
oil?
:)

PM

From doug at dougbraun.com  Wed May  7 12:19:02 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 11:19:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
Message-ID: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Check out this video:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/07/dnt.pitbull.stuck.in.engine.kcra

Doug

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Wed May  7 13:36:22 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:36:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
In-Reply-To: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805071236u2e89b484i13ddf24697724437@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com> wrote:
> Check out this video:
>
>  http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/07/dnt.pitbull.stuck.in.engine.kcra
>

My parents have stories about one of their neighbor's cat when they
lived in Ithaca.  The cat, with the predictive name of "Mincemeat",
would climb up next to the radiators of recently parked cars.  It had
more than one surprise encounter with a fan blade before neighbors
learned to sound the horn before starting the engine.


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Wed May  7 13:54:02 2008
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:54:02 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360805071251y7bdd2fb7m6d778da9af48f5c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2400a5d40805071236u2e89b484i13ddf24697724437@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360805071251y7bdd2fb7m6d778da9af48f5c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea2385360805071254q7a2616p244f968fd8d971b@mail.gmail.com>

 *I had one of those"cat under the hood" encounters but the cat wasn't so
> lucky . . .I waited 'til the lady next door who owned him went to work
> before I gathered up all the pieces and gave him a hasty burial . .  She
> never could understand why he "ran off" like that . . . *

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Wed May  7 14:40:14 2008
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:40:14 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
In-Reply-To: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <abb8688a0805071340x368748bbi2eaa20ec663812b4@mail.gmail.com>

Just last week I started my truck and was greeted with a horrible
clattering sound.  I thought I had thrown a serpentine belt, so I
popped the hood.  When I did a VERY angry and slightly abbreviated
ground hog came out the engine compartment.  It headed for the trees,
but was moving ok, so I think it survived.  The truck didn't seem to
suffer any damage either.

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com> wrote:
> Check out this video:
>
>  http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/07/dnt.pitbull.stuck.in.engine.kcra
>
>  Doug
>  _______________________________________________
>  Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>  You are subscribed as jdinnis at gmail.com
>
>  Shop-talk mailing list
>
>  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>  http://www.team.net/archive
>



-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown =
=================================

From whesr at iglou.com  Wed May  7 14:55:02 2008
From: whesr at iglou.com (Bill Engle Sr)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 16:55:02 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360805071254q7a2616p244f968fd8d971b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2400a5d40805071236u2e89b484i13ddf24697724437@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360805071251y7bdd2fb7m6d778da9af48f5c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360805071254q7a2616p244f968fd8d971b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1JtqpP-0007Re-Oy@iglou.com>

   Speaking of cats and shop happenings, the worst one for the cat I ever
   saw,  was  at the engine building shop of one of my friends.  He had a
   hot  tank  (caustic)  he used to clean engine blocks, heads, etc.  The
   tank was insulated and back then fuel costs where low so he kept it on
   all  the time.  One of the mice catching shop cats (named Mrs. Gasket)
   liked  to climb up on the top of the tank and sleep on the warm cover.
   One  afternoon when we were cleaning some parts and had just taken the
   parts  out  the tank the cat came bounding in the shop, jumped up on a
   box  and  on  to  the  cover.  She hit the hot caustic and didn't even
   struggle,  just  gone.  We always had a much healthier respect for the
   injury potential of that stuff from then.
   Bill
   At 03:54 PM 5/7/2008, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote:

      *I  had  one  of  those"cat under the hood" encounters but the cat
     wasn't so
     > lucky . . .I waited 'til the lady next door who owned him went to
     work
     > before I gathered up all the pieces and gave him a hasty burial .
     .  She
     > never could understand why he "ran off" like that . . . *

From doug at dougbraun.com  Wed May  7 15:40:34 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 14:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40805071236u2e89b484i13ddf24697724437@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <904012.71065.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

More than one encounter?  I guess it was rather lucky!

Doug


--- David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>  It had  more than one surprise encounter with a fan
blade

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Wed May  7 15:53:16 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:53:16 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
In-Reply-To: <904012.71065.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <2400a5d40805071236u2e89b484i13ddf24697724437@mail.gmail.com>
	<904012.71065.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805071453i31072c6frafca6f32c9e647da@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com> wrote:
> More than one encounter?  I guess it was rather lucky!
>
Or stupid.  Of course, this was the early 60s.  Cars had more space
under the hood then.



-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From drew at DasRogges.com  Wed May  7 19:00:29 2008
From: drew at DasRogges.com (Drew Rogge)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 18:00:29 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
Message-ID: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>

I'm going to be taking down an old redwood deck soon and I'm
going to take advantage of the opportunity to pick up a
reciprocating saw. Does anyone have recommendations on which
one to buy? I'm leaning towards a Milwaukee Super Sawzall
but am open to other suggestions.

Thanks,
Drew

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Wed May  7 19:07:35 2008
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 21:07:35 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
In-Reply-To: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
References: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
Message-ID: <48225257.6010901@xxiii.com>

Drew Rogge wrote:
> I'm going to be taking down an old redwood deck soon and I'm
> ...... but am open to other suggestions.

Those things will rattle your elbows and shoulders till you can't hold 
your beer any longer.

How about a chain-saw?  Flame thrower?  Explosives?

   -Wayne  :)

From dirtbeard at pacbell.net  Wed May  7 19:14:33 2008
From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 18:14:33 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
References: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c8b0a8$e0f02d10$0a347d80@B50SS>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Drew Rogge" <drew at DasRogges.com>
To: "Shop Talk List" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:00 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations


> I'm going to be taking down an old redwood deck soon and I'm
> going to take advantage of the opportunity to pick up a
> reciprocating saw. Does anyone have recommendations on which
> one to buy? I'm leaning towards a Milwaukee Super Sawzall
> but am open to other suggestions.
>
Drew,

My recommendation would be to trust your "leanings." Buy the Super Sawzall 
and you will never regret it and you will never have to replace it. They 
also are a joy to use as they are balanced and do not beat you up/wear you 
out with vibrations. I look for excuses to use mine.

best,

shook
____________________
'72 BSA B50SS
'74 Triumph TR6
'01 HD XHL 883
'03 GMC Cargo Van
> Thanks,
> Drew
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as dirtbeard at pacbell.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Wed May  7 20:38:39 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:38:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
In-Reply-To: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
References: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805072237001.24923@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Wed, 7 May 2008, Drew Rogge wrote:
> I'm going to be taking down an old redwood deck soon and I'm going to 
> take advantage of the opportunity to pick up a reciprocating saw. Does 
> anyone have recommendations on which one to buy? I'm leaning towards a 
> Milwaukee Super Sawzall but am open to other suggestions.

I've got both a nice DeWalt as well as a cheapie harbor freight one I got 
when I needed a sawzall and someone had my DeWalt.

If my eyes were closed, there's not much difference between them.  If 
you're a pro and you're going to use it day in and day out, need to be 
able to get it repaired, can't take a chance on a bad one you need to 
exchange, etc...  Get the Milwaukee.

But if not... I'd save the money.

Mark

From bill at gingerich.us  Wed May  7 20:41:55 2008
From: bill at gingerich.us (Bill Gingerich)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:41:55 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
In-Reply-To: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
References: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
Message-ID: <006801c8b0b5$14bfea70$64dea8c0@shack2>

I wouldn't trade my Milwaukee Super Sawzall for anything.  Bought it used
for $45 4 years ago.  It's bulletproof.  I also have a cordless DeWalt that
I was given, and it works well for lighter duty stuff.

Bill G
Newalla, OK



-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+bill=gingerich.us at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+bill=gingerich.us at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Drew Rogge
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:00 PM
To: Shop Talk List
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations

I'm going to be taking down an old redwood deck soon and I'm
going to take advantage of the opportunity to pick up a
reciprocating saw. Does anyone have recommendations on which
one to buy? I'm leaning towards a Milwaukee Super Sawzall
but am open to other suggestions.

Thanks,
Drew

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Wed May  7 20:48:30 2008
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:48:30 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
References: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
Message-ID: <001201c8b0b6$00488bf0$4101a8c0@KARL>

Milwaukee Super Sawzall, highest amperage model, with reciprocating option. 
Blade changing is great, speed control is greal, balance is great.  I've 
abused mine terribly and it just keeps going.  I've cut many 6' - 8" tree 
roots deep down in the dirt till the saw is too hot to hold, and I dropped 
it 20' out of a tree the first time out of the box.  Regular demolition is 
kind of a vacation for mine.

I find that DeWalt blades last far longer than Milwaukee blades, others say 
just the opposite.

Just remember though - my buddy calls it "the tool without a conscience" for 
a reason.

Enjoy it, and good luck !
Karl



> I'm going to be taking down an old redwood deck soon and I'm
> going to take advantage of the opportunity to pick up a
> reciprocating saw. Does anyone have recommendations on which
> one to buy? I'm leaning towards a Milwaukee Super Sawzall
> but am open to other suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Drew
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed May  7 20:55:08 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:55:08 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
In-Reply-To: <001d01c8b0a8$e0f02d10$0a347d80@B50SS>
Message-ID: <20080508025507.JUDU28475.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@randall>

> Buy the 
> Super Sawzall 
> and you will never regret it and you will never have to 
> replace it.

Unless of course your contractor pinches it and then skips town.  Sure glad
he only got a cheap HF knock-off.

Randall

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Wed May  7 21:11:00 2008
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:11:00 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Chain saw on a pole
Message-ID: <ea2385360805072011t450253aaicd7c56f39453c1ab@mail.gmail.com>

*I have a ocassional problem with high tree limbs that overhang my house and
shop.  trimmer people are going to cost a bunch of money.  **I should be
able to do it with one of those "chain saws on a pole" I've seen.  Does
anyone have a bit of advice on the "best buy"  el cheapo pole-type gasoline
pole saws?*
**
*I'll appreciate your input.*
**
*Tony   *

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Wed May  7 21:45:17 2008
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:45:17 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Chain saw on a pole
In-Reply-To: <1053909690-1210217643-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413178992-@bxe135.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <ea2385360805072011t450253aaicd7c56f39453c1ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1053909690-1210217643-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413178992-@bxe135.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <ea2385360805072045t497c44b4m6dd211b35c5aa400@mail.gmail.com>

Roland answered:

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 10:32 PM, <rwil at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Buy a Remington electric from harbor freight. Less than $100 on sale. The
> pole will be "just" a bit too short but a ladder will help with that
> problem.
> -Roland
>
*I was sort of leery of an electric . . Will it cut a 6 or 8 inch limb?*
*Tony*

From pethier at comcast.net  Wed May  7 22:20:59 2008
From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 04:20:59 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Chain saw on a pole
Message-ID: <050820080420.15839.48227FAB0009851700003DDF22165258069D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>

From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" <eltonclark at gmail.com>
> *I have a ocassional problem with high tree limbs that overhang my house and
> shop.  trimmer people are going to cost a bunch of money.  **I should be
> able to do it with one of those "chain saws on a pole" I've seen.  Does
> anyone have a bit of advice on the "best buy"  el cheapo pole-type gasoline
> pole saws?*
> **
> *I'll appreciate your input.*
> **
> *Tony   *

Go buy one of those camper's chainsaws.  Looks like a chainsaw chain curled up in a little tin the size of a snuffbox.  Get it at one of those outdoors stores.  Should cost less than ten bucks.  Put a long rope on each end.  You and a buddy go out and throw a line over the limb.  Each of you stand well clear on each side of the limb and pull the lines back and forth.  It takes a while, but there is no limb too big.  My wife and I trimmed some big limbs way up in an oak tree.  Way too high to reach with a pole. 

Remember, this is no teensy rope saw cable thing.  It looks like a chainsaw chain.


--
Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net    http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.

From mikey at b2systems.com  Wed May  7 22:31:50 2008
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 21:31:50 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
In-Reply-To: <E1JtqpP-0007Re-Oy@iglou.com>
References: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2400a5d40805071236u2e89b484i13ddf24697724437@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360805071251y7bdd2fb7m6d778da9af48f5c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360805071254q7a2616p244f968fd8d971b@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1JtqpP-0007Re-Oy@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <48228236.2090309@b2systems.com>

 Nov, 4 1974 about 3PM a 16 year old took a bath in one of those 
180degree lye hot tank, jumped out in seconds, burned on 80% of his 
body, somewhere around 15% 3rd degree, 40% 2nd degree and the rest minor 
but still burnt.  Mother was told at the hospital he would not live, he 
was wheeled out of the hospital 3 months later and took another 3 months 
to take his first steps again and about a year before he could walk 
pretty normally again.  3 surgeries for skin grafts, little trivia 
question, did you know your eyelids are the only place they can get skin 
sensitive enough for a certain part of the male body and it takes 3-4 
weeks for the eyelids to recover before you can redo the surgery ? and 
it took 3 times (like to brag it was due to size but bragging is not 
polite).

 Yeah, I HAVE A EXTREMELY HEALTHY RESPECT FOR THOSE THINGS !!!  The 
doctor told me and my mother I was really lucky my head never went 
under, the lye would have eaten the whites of my eyes in seconds and I 
would have shut down instantly and never come out, they never found my 
safety glasses even when they drained the tank.  I was throwing up bits 
of stomach for several weeks as I swallowed some that splashed into my 
face but my safety glasses saved my life.  The rubber soles of my 
sneakers never came out of the tank either, just the tops came out with 
me.  What saved me what I had a hook in my right hand that was 1 to 2ft 
long with which I was trying to grab the chain that was bolted the 
motors head in the tank, I am guessing I pushed off the bottom with that 
hook and that kept my head from going under and that is why my right arm 
was more burnt than my left arm, but I am only guessing that as I really 
don't remember much.  Not even sure how I fell in, I am guessing I was 
on a 55gal. drum next to the tank but don't know.

 Don't ever get into a "scar" contest when drunk with me, I win when I 
drop my pants :)

    mike

Bill Engle Sr wrote:
>    Speaking of cats and shop happenings, the worst one for the cat I ever
>    saw,  was  at the engine building shop of one of my friends.  He had a
>    hot  tank  (caustic)  he used to clean engine blocks, heads, etc.  The
>    tank was insulated and back then fuel costs where low so he kept it on
>    all  the time.  One of the mice catching shop cats (named Mrs. Gasket)
>    liked  to climb up on the top of the tank and sleep on the warm cover.
>    One  afternoon when we were cleaning some parts and had just taken the
>    parts  out  the tank the cat came bounding in the shop, jumped up on a
>    box  and  on  to  the  cover.  She hit the hot caustic and didn't even
>    struggle,  just  gone.  We always had a much healthier respect for the
>    injury potential of that stuff from then.
>    Bill

From pethier at comcast.net  Wed May  7 22:58:22 2008
From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 04:58:22 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
Message-ID: <050820080458.18913.4822886E0004E320000049E122155670749D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>

> I find that DeWalt blades last far longer than Milwaukee blades, others say 
> just the opposite.

I have had good luck with Morse bladed in my Sawzall.


--
Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net    http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.

From doug at dougbraun.com  Thu May  8 01:09:41 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 00:09:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Chain saw on a pole
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360805072011t450253aaicd7c56f39453c1ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <649313.30723.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I would worry that if you are trying to cut limbs that
are too thick to cut with a non-powered saw on a pole,
you could run the risk of having them crash down on
top of your house or yourself, causing damage.

Doug


--- "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" <eltonclark at gmail.com>
wrote:

> *I have a ocassional problem with high tree limbs
> that overhang my house and
> shop.  trimmer people are going to cost a bunch of
> money.  **I should be
> able to do it with one of those "chain saws on a
> pole" I've seen.  Does
> anyone have a bit of advice on the "best buy"  el
> cheapo pole-type gasoline
> pole saws?*
> **
> *I'll appreciate your input.*
> **
> *Tony   *
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as doug at dougbraun.com
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Thu May  8 05:49:14 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 07:49:14 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Chain saw on a pole
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360805072045t497c44b4m6dd211b35c5aa400@mail.gmail.co
  m>
References: <1053909690-1210217643-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413178992-@bxe135.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<ea2385360805072011t450253aaicd7c56f39453c1ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1053909690-1210217643-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413178992-@bxe135.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080508074914.00a63d80@pop.east.cox.net>

At 10:45 PM 5/7/2008 -0500, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote:

>Roland answered:
>
>On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 10:32 PM, <rwil at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Buy a Remington electric from harbor freight. Less than $100 on sale. The
>> pole will be "just" a bit too short but a ladder will help with that
>> problem.
>> -Roland


>*I was sort of leery of an electric . . Will it cut a 6 or 8 inch limb?*
>*Tony*

Tony,

I have one of the electric ones and really like it.  I think the pole
extends to something like 12'.  The only problem is that the weight
of the electric saw does receate some torgue at the end.  So after
a while it does get heavy.  But it does a great job.

I've only seen one of the gas powered ones, and I don't remember
how much it extends (if it can).  But the gas motor was at the bottom
of the pole, which was nice and helped counter the torque of the saw
at the other end.

Remember this is for trimming.  And yes I could cut a 6" to 8" limb.
In fact I've cut some bigger limbs that that.  You may have to make
a couple of cuts.

I had a tree in the back yard, the trunk was at least 18" in dia. and
about 40' tall.  All I have was 2 electric chain saws.  The one on
the pole, which is has about an 8" to 12" bar, and a standalone
chain saw with about a 14" to 16" bar.  I had to find someone 
with a big gas powered saw to bring down the trunk.

Just be very careful.  Chainsaws are very mean.  And a limb that
is not secured can do a lot of damage.  I had to cut a 4 to 6" limb
that was over my house.  We cut it in sections.  Each being about
a foot in length.  I ran a rope from the ground to a limb higher
than the limb we were cutting.  Then tied the rope about 1/2 way
down the section I was going to cut, and cut.  Then lowered that
section, and repeated.

Good luck.

John



John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Thu May  8 06:40:31 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Chain saw on a pole
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360805072045t497c44b4m6dd211b35c5aa400@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea2385360805072011t450253aaicd7c56f39453c1ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1053909690-1210217643-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413178992-@bxe135.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<ea2385360805072045t497c44b4m6dd211b35c5aa400@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805080839420.16192@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Wed, 7 May 2008, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote:
> *I was sort of leery of an electric . . Will it cut a 6 or 8 inch limb?*

I dunno about the saw on a pole bit, but my electric chainsaw cuts stuff 
like that with no problem.

And no motor to maintain, etc. etc. etc. :-)

Mark

From drew at DasRogges.com  Thu May  8 07:58:05 2008
From: drew at DasRogges.com (Drew Rogge)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 06:58:05 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reciprocating saw recommendations
In-Reply-To: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
References: <482250AD.2050105@DasRogges.com>
Message-ID: <482306ED.8070907@DasRogges.com>

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm going to checkout the
prices on the Sawzall this afternoon.

Drew

Drew Rogge wrote:
> I'm going to be taking down an old redwood deck soon and I'm
> going to take advantage of the opportunity to pick up a
> reciprocating saw. Does anyone have recommendations on which
> one to buy? I'm leaning towards a Milwaukee Super Sawzall
> but am open to other suggestions.
> 
> Thanks,
> Drew

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Thu May  8 08:49:42 2008
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:49:42 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Chain saw on a pole
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805080839420.16192@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <ea2385360805072011t450253aaicd7c56f39453c1ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<1053909690-1210217643-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413178992-@bxe135.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<ea2385360805072045t497c44b4m6dd211b35c5aa400@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805080839420.16192@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <ea2385360805080749m481c202dle64a47c1cf3ca646@mail.gmail.com>

*Thanks to all . . I'm going 'letric!*
*Tony*

From smarc at smarc.net  Thu May  8 08:50:25 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 10:50:25 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Questions
Message-ID: <48231331.9000703@smarc.net>

Good morning!

I am not a very experienced welder, have had my rig for just a a couple 
years. Very handy to have in the shop! I'm about to do a little body 
work, need to make a few small patches and weld them in.

My buddy works for an HVAC mechanical contractor, and brought me a nice 
assortment of scrap pieces in various gauges. Only problem is I think 
all that metal is galvanized.

All the info I have read indicates welding on galvanized metal = NOT 
GOOD (metal fume fever).  So, what's the story on this? Or, where can 
you get small pieces (12" x 12") of sheet metal that is suitable to work 
with?

-- 

Marc

From trevor at boicey.com  Thu May  8 08:55:33 2008
From: trevor at boicey.com (Trevor Boicey)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:55:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Questions
In-Reply-To: <48231331.9000703@smarc.net>
References: <48231331.9000703@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <34505.198.103.167.20.1210258533.squirrel@new.host.name>

> Good morning!
>
> I am not a very experienced welder, have had my rig for just a a couple
> years. Very handy to have in the shop! I'm about to do a little body
> work, need to make a few small patches and weld them in.
>
> My buddy works for an HVAC mechanical contractor, and brought me a nice
> assortment of scrap pieces in various gauges. Only problem is I think
> all that metal is galvanized.
>
> All the info I have read indicates welding on galvanized metal = NOT
> GOOD (metal fume fever).  So, what's the story on this? Or, where can
> you get small pieces (12" x 12") of sheet metal that is suitable to work
> with?

  Correct, don't use galvanized.

  I got a huge box of scraps from a body shop, all perfect, various gauges.

  But if you go to a metal shop, they'll have off cuts of sheet metal that
will be cheap, and can be cut into enough scraps to weld yourself silly.

  Even a 4x8' sheet of metal isn't all that expensive, so the off cuts are
pocket change usually.

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Thu May  8 09:02:45 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Questions
In-Reply-To: <48231331.9000703@smarc.net>
References: <48231331.9000703@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805081059140.22226@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Thu, 8 May 2008, Marc wrote:
> My buddy works for an HVAC mechanical contractor, and brought me a nice
> assortment of scrap pieces in various gauges. Only problem is I think
> all that metal is galvanized.
>
> All the info I have read indicates welding on galvanized metal = NOT
> GOOD (metal fume fever).  So, what's the story on this? Or, where can
> you get small pieces (12" x 12") of sheet metal that is suitable to work
> with?

I did the metal fume fever thing once (didn't know it was called that...)

Trust me when I say that you do not want to go through that.

If you end up deciding to use the galvanized stuff, I'd sand/wire brush 
the heck out of it or (better) sand blast it.  Either way, make sure you 
have some ventilation when you weld it, and make sure your head isn't 
directly over where you're welding.

All that said, I think Lowe's & HD carry sheet metal in various guages. 
There's also www.metalexpress.net, and probably a ton of other options.

Mark

From smarc at smarc.net  Thu May  8 09:07:26 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 11:07:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805081059140.22226@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <48231331.9000703@smarc.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805081059140.22226@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <4823172E.4000301@smarc.net>

   Is there any way I can recognize galvanized when I see it?
Marc

   Mark Andy wrote:

Howdy,

On Thu, 8 May 2008, Marc wrote:

My buddy works for an HVAC mechanical contractor, and brought me a nice
assortment of scrap pieces in various gauges. Only problem is I think
all that metal is galvanized.

All the info I have read indicates welding on galvanized metal = NOT
GOOD (metal fume fever).  So, what's the story on this? Or, where can
you get small pieces (12" x 12") of sheet metal that is suitable to work
with?

I did the metal fume fever thing once (didn't know it was called that...)

Trust me when I say that you do not want to go through that.

If you end up deciding to use the galvanized stuff, I'd sand/wire brush
the heck out of it or (better) sand blast it.  Either way, make sure you
have some ventilation when you weld it, and make sure your head isn't
directly over where you're welding.

All that said, I think Lowe's & HD carry sheet metal in various guages.
There's also www.metalexpress.net, and probably a ton of other options.

Mark

From trevor at boicey.com  Thu May  8 09:09:21 2008
From: trevor at boicey.com (Trevor Boicey)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:09:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Questions
In-Reply-To: <4823172E.4000301@smarc.net>
References: <48231331.9000703@smarc.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805081059140.22226@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<4823172E.4000301@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <43911.198.103.167.20.1210259361.squirrel@new.host.name>

>    Is there any way I can recognize galvanized when I see it?

  The coating is usually obvious, but if you happen to start welding it by
accident, a white fluffy layer on top of the metal will appear and start
to smoke...

  A but like spiderweb material, very wispy and floats away on the smoke
in pieces.

From markmiller at threeboysfarm.com  Thu May  8 19:28:06 2008
From: markmiller at threeboysfarm.com (Mark Miller)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 18:28:06 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Q
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1210269602.27229.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.21.1210269602.27229.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <007001c8b173$ef9d06a0$6400a8c0@OFFICEPC>

<looking for scrap metal to practice welding on>

I would recommend going to a local junkyard and picking up a body panel or
two.  Maybe a hood or door?  Cheaper and more eco-friendly than buying fresh
metal.

From james.f.juhas at snet.net  Thu May  8 22:39:00 2008
From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (Jim Juhas)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 0:39:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Q
Message-ID: <20080509043724.BE8AA18787D@autox.team.net>

And when you're all done with your patches on your treasured classic car, you can tell admirers that it was grafted from a 1987 Taurus.

Jim 
1957 MGA #311

-----Original Message-----

From:  "Mark Miller" <markmiller at threeboysfarm.com>
Subj:  Re: [Shop-talk] Welding Q
Date:  Thu May 8, 2008 9:28 pm
Size:  456 bytes
To:  <shop-talk at autox.team.net>

<looking for scrap metal to practice welding on>

I would recommend going to a local junkyard and picking up a body panel or
two.  Maybe a hood or door?  Cheaper and more eco-friendly than buying fresh
metal.
______________________________________

From shiples at comcast.net  Thu May  8 22:42:32 2008
From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley)
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 21:42:32 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Q
In-Reply-To: <007001c8b173$ef9d06a0$6400a8c0@OFFICEPC>
References: <mailman.21.1210269602.27229.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
	<mailman.21.1210269602.27229.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080508212414.00f7a090@mail.comcast.net>

At 06:28 PM 5/8/2008 -0700, Mark Miller wrote:
><looking for scrap metal to practice welding on>
>
>I would recommend going to a local junkyard and picking up a body panel or
>two.  Maybe a hood or door?  Cheaper and more eco-friendly than buying fresh
>metal.

Just be aware that junkyard sheet metal can vary in composition.  I have some
vague recollection that the Japanese started using "High strength steel" that
had some specific requirements for welding.

It's to your advantage to practice on something similar to what you'll be
using for the finished product.  The advantage of new material is that
it's much cleaner.  Some of the junk I've attempted to weld was so contaminated
that it was a waste of time.

I don't want to claim any expertise, but the fewer unknowns you're working 
with,
the better off you are.  I suspect that there are variables other than
galvanizing that might interfere with the process.

From doug at dougbraun.com  Fri May  9 14:53:38 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Interesting shop-related auction
Message-ID: <619527.70191.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Interesting auction of shop stuff:

http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/AuctionDetail.asp?AuctionID=11630

From jem at milleredp.com  Fri May  9 17:11:39 2008
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 16:11:39 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Interesting shop-related auction
In-Reply-To: <619527.70191.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <619527.70191.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4824DA2B.7070105@milleredp.com>

Doug Braun wrote:
> Interesting auction of shop stuff:
> 
> http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/AuctionDetail.asp?AuctionID=11630

Dovebid's been running auctions of shuttered Mopar dealerships, too.

There was one here that had some potentially useful stuff, I put in some 
bids on an R-134a service unit and a few other things, but bidding at 
auction is a matter of knowing what something is worth to you...

John.

From obaa996 at yahoo.com  Fri May  9 17:23:10 2008
From: obaa996 at yahoo.com (Obaa)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:23:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Interesting shop-related auction
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1210375031.29619.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <598737.30256.qm@web54306.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>Dovebid's been running auctions of shuttered Mopar
>dealerships, too.
>
>There was one here that had some potentially useful
>stuff, I put in some 
>bids on an R-134a service unit and a few other
>things, but bidding at 
>auction is a matter of knowing what something is
>worth to you...

How do you find out about the dealership auctions? 
I'm trying to get a DRBIII scanner, and they are bit
pricey for me to be buying new....

From jem at milleredp.com  Fri May  9 18:36:50 2008
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 17:36:50 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Interesting shop-related auction
In-Reply-To: <598737.30256.qm@web54306.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <598737.30256.qm@web54306.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4824EE22.3010608@milleredp.com>

Obaa wrote:
>> Dovebid's been running auctions of shuttered Mopar
>> dealerships, too.
> 
> How do you find out about the dealership auctions? 
> I'm trying to get a DRBIII scanner, and they are bit
> pricey for me to be buying new....

Go to the Dovebid website and sign up for their email notifications.

John.

From smarc at smarc.net  Fri May  9 20:24:33 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 22:24:33 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
Message-ID: <48250761.6080504@smarc.net>

Whats the secret to making a water filter out of a 5 gallon  bucket? I 
came across the idea on a bbs somewhere, but it was kind of vague.

I have a 5 gal paint bucket with lid. Cut two holes, insert pvc pipe and 
seal. 1st pipe is the inlet, and goes about halfway into the bucket.  
2nd pipe is the outlet, and extends about one inch into the bucket. 
Water level is below the inlet pipe. The idea is that a flex hose goes 
from the sand blast cabinet to the inlet,  and the outlet is connected 
to a shop vac. Dust particles are sucked into the bucket, hit the water 
and stay there.

Problem is apparently the air is coming into the bucket so fast that 
water droplets are being sucked into the vac. Not so good for the 
filter... I have experimented with different water levels, but same problem.

Anyone made one that works? Is there some sort of baffle needed?

-- 

Marc

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Fri May  9 20:52:04 2008
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 22:52:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <48250761.6080504@smarc.net>
References: <48250761.6080504@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <48250DD4.20503@comcast.net>

You need to reduce the velocity and turbulence of the air entering the bucket. 
Best ways are:

1. reduce air flow.  Use a smaller outlet pipe (or choke the one you have 
installed) until the droplets stop and you still have enough air flow to suck 
the dust from the work area.  If you can't reduce the air flow enough to stop 
the water without also losing the dust collection, try next method.

2.  reduce inlet air turbulence.  Put a large number of soda straws (raid the 
local Mikey Dees or buy a hundred at the grocery) in the inlet pipe where it 
points to the water surface to form a "honeycomb" air straightener.  The air 
will impinge on the water fairly smoothly, and won't splash as much.  If that 
doesn't work, move on to method 3.

3.  reduce inlet air velocity.  Remove the soda straw air straightener and put a 
conical diffuser on the pipe into the bucket.  (An exponential horn would be 
better, but it's hard to make; a cone with an included angle of 12 degrees or 
less should work OK.)  The air will slow down as it approaches the open-most end 
of the cone and won't stir up as much water.

In any case, it would probably help to put some kind of baffle between the water 
surface and the pipe leading to your shop vac.  Just a flat plate that stands a 
few inches away from the inlet to the outlet pipe would probably help.

Let us know how it works out,
Donald.

Marc wrote:
> Whats the secret to making a water filter out of a 5 gallon  bucket? I 
> came across the idea on a bbs somewhere, but it was kind of vague.
> 
> I have a 5 gal paint bucket with lid. Cut two holes, insert pvc pipe and 
> seal. 1st pipe is the inlet, and goes about halfway into the bucket.  
> 2nd pipe is the outlet, and extends about one inch into the bucket. 
> Water level is below the inlet pipe. The idea is that a flex hose goes 
> from the sand blast cabinet to the inlet,  and the outlet is connected 
> to a shop vac. Dust particles are sucked into the bucket, hit the water 
> and stay there.
> 
> Problem is apparently the air is coming into the bucket so fast that 
> water droplets are being sucked into the vac. Not so good for the 
> filter... I have experimented with different water levels, but same problem.
> 
> Anyone made one that works? Is there some sort of baffle needed?

From doug at dougbraun.com  Fri May  9 21:59:53 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:59:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <48250DD4.20503@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <761423.20468.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have heard this before, but it led me to wonder:  If
I wanted to reduce the air flow, I could just continue
to use the clogged filter that is normally in the shop
vac, and not bother making the water filter in the
first place.

Recently I bought this fancy hi-tech gore-tex shop vac
filter.  It can stand up to blast cabinet filtering,
and it is very easy to clean:  just hold it horizontal
and bump it, and the dust mostly falls out.

Doug

--- Donald H Locker <dhlocker at comcast.net> wrote:

> You need to reduce the velocity and turbulence of
> the air entering the bucket. 
> Best ways are:
> 
> 1. reduce air flow.  

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Fri May  9 23:41:45 2008
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 01:41:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Welding Questions: galvanized
In-Reply-To: <43911.198.103.167.20.1210259361.squirrel@new.host.name>
References: <48231331.9000703@smarc.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805081059140.22226@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<4823172E.4000301@smarc.net>
	<43911.198.103.167.20.1210259361.squirrel@new.host.name>
Message-ID: <022901c8b260$89a3ff50$9cebfdf0$@mele@usermail.com>

a 40-60 grit sanding disk on a 7 or 9 inch grinder will take off the zinc in
a few seconds.  I'm sure someone knows the exact thickness, but I'll guess
it's only a few mils.

PM

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Sat May 10 05:55:12 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 07:55:12 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <48250761.6080504@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080510075512.00a9a7c8@pop.east.cox.net>

At 10:24 PM 5/9/2008 -0400, Marc wrote:

>Whats the secret to making a water filter out of a 5 gallon  bucket? I 
>came across the idea on a bbs somewhere, but it was kind of vague.
>.....

Mark,

You're right on target.  And Donald has some great suggestions.

However, I made my shop vac the water trap.  I usually keep an
old small shop vac around for the blast cabinet.  (Watch yard sales
for used ones.)  I must admitt that I have trashed the bearings
on the motors of a couple over the years, blasting.

Make sure that they have a deflector on the inlet port that is pointing
down, or is rotatable.  (You can always make one out of some flashing
and pop rivet it to the vac.)  Point the deflector down so the dust 
will be deflected to the bottom of the vac.  Put a couple of inches
of water on the bottom of the vac, and you have a water trap in
you vac.  Less hoses, and pieces.

John



W
>
>I have a 5 gal paint bucket with lid. Cut two holes, insert pvc pipe and 
>seal. 1st pipe is the inlet, and goes about halfway into the bucket.  
>2nd pipe is the outlet, and extends about one inch into the bucket. 
>Water level is below the inlet pipe. The idea is that a flex hose goes 
>from the sand blast cabinet to the inlet,  and the outlet is connected 
>to a shop vac. Dust particles are sucked into the bucket, hit the water 
>and stay there.
>
>Problem is apparently the air is coming into the bucket so fast that 
>water droplets are being sucked into the vac. Not so good for the 
>filter... I have experimented with different water levels, but same problem.
>
>Anyone made one that works? Is there some sort of baffle needed?
>
>-- 
>
>Marc
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>You are subscribed as jblair1948 at cox.net
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>http://www.team.net/archive
>
John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From bugi1960 at gmail.com  Sat May 10 10:01:45 2008
From: bugi1960 at gmail.com (Philip Nase)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 12:01:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <48250761.6080504@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <C44B3F29.9CC%bugi1960@gmail.com>

I cut a piece of plywood a smaller diameter than the bucket lip so it sits
in the bucket about a third of the way in from the top.  Cut holes for the
hose and fill the water to below the plywood and it keeps the splashes in
the bucket and out of the hose.

 


On 5/9/08 10:24 PM, "Marc" <smarc at smarc.net> wrote:

> Whats the secret to making a water filter out of a 5 gallon  bucket? I
> came across the idea on a bbs somewhere, but it was kind of vague.
> 
> I have a 5 gal paint bucket with lid. Cut two holes, insert pvc pipe and
> seal. 1st pipe is the inlet, and goes about halfway into the bucket.
> 2nd pipe is the outlet, and extends about one inch into the bucket.
> Water level is below the inlet pipe. The idea is that a flex hose goes
> from the sand blast cabinet to the inlet,  and the outlet is connected
> to a shop vac. Dust particles are sucked into the bucket, hit the water
> and stay there.
> 
> Problem is apparently the air is coming into the bucket so fast that
> water droplets are being sucked into the vac. Not so good for the
> filter... I have experimented with different water levels, but same problem.
> 
> Anyone made one that works? Is there some sort of baffle needed?

Phil Nase
Quakertown, PA
bugi1960 at gmail.com 

From wmgilroy at gmail.com  Sat May 10 11:01:14 2008
From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (William M. Gilroy)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 10:01:14 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <48250DD4.20503@comcast.net>
References: <48250761.6080504@smarc.net> <48250DD4.20503@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4825D4DA.4090905@gmail.com>

   This  is  what  I  have  done.   I  ran the inlet side below the water
   surface.   I then made a baffle that sits a couple of inches below the
   lid  of  the  bucket.  The baffle is a piece of round sheet metal that
   that  has a 3 legs in it to hold it up and a bunch of holes drilled in
   the  metal.  That  keeps  most of the water out of the shop vac and it
   works fine.
   Blast  cabinet bong tip of the day:  Label very port as "in" and "out"
   with  a  sharpie.  If you get it backwards you will push all the water
   out  of  the  water filter into the blast cabinet.  Water soaked glass
   beads are a bitch.
   -g
   Donald H Locker wrote:

You need to reduce the velocity and turbulence of the air entering the bucket.
Best ways are:

1. reduce air flow.  Use a smaller outlet pipe (or choke the one you have
installed) until the droplets stop and you still have enough air flow to suck
the dust from the work area.  If you can't reduce the air flow enough to stop
the water without also losing the dust collection, try next method.

2.  reduce inlet air turbulence.  Put a large number of soda straws (raid the
local Mikey Dees or buy a hundred at the grocery) in the inlet pipe where it
points to the water surface to form a "honeycomb" air straightener.  The air
will impinge on the water fairly smoothly, and won't splash as much.  If that
doesn't work, move on to method 3.

3.  reduce inlet air velocity.  Remove the soda straw air straightener and put 
a
conical diffuser on the pipe into the bucket.  (An exponential horn would be
better, but it's hard to make; a cone with an included angle of 12 degrees or
less should work OK.)  The air will slow down as it approaches the open-most en
d
of the cone and won't stir up as much water.

In any case, it would probably help to put some kind of baffle between the wate
r
surface and the pipe leading to your shop vac.  Just a flat plate that stands a
few inches away from the inlet to the outlet pipe would probably help.

Let us know how it works out,
Donald.

Marc wrote:

Whats the secret to making a water filter out of a 5 gallon  bucket? I
came across the idea on a bbs somewhere, but it was kind of vague.

I have a 5 gal paint bucket with lid. Cut two holes, insert pvc pipe and
seal. 1st pipe is the inlet, and goes about halfway into the bucket.
2nd pipe is the outlet, and extends about one inch into the bucket.
Water level is below the inlet pipe. The idea is that a flex hose goes
from the sand blast cabinet to the inlet,  and the outlet is connected
to a shop vac. Dust particles are sucked into the bucket, hit the water
and stay there.

Problem is apparently the air is coming into the bucket so fast that
water droplets are being sucked into the vac. Not so good for the
filter... I have experimented with different water levels, but same problem.

Anyone made one that works? Is there some sort of baffle needed?
You are subscribed as wmgilroy at gmail.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

http://www.team.net/archive

From smarc at smarc.net  Sat May 10 21:11:38 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 23:11:38 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080510075512.00a9a7c8@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <3.0.5.32.20080510075512.00a9a7c8@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <482663EA.6080102@smarc.net>

Thanks to all for some pretty cool ideas. In the end, I went for 
simplicity and just made a baffle, a) because I could use what I had on 
hand, and b) because I could get on with what I actually set out to do!

I took some sheet metal,  cut out a circle sized to fit snugly in the 
bucket, about 1/3 of the way down. Cut a hole for the inlet pipe to pass 
through, and drilled about a dozen holes in the center.

Success! Just the tiniest dribble of water in the hose to the shop vac, 
not enough to be concerned with. Upon firing up the vacuum, the first 
thing I noticed was the gloves were sucked into the cabinet (they 
usually hang out the front, inside out...) It works fantastically! I can 
see inside the cabinet, and there was no dust everywhere on everything! 
The only downside is having to wear ear protection now. However, with 
enough hose I can put the shop vac outside...

Marc

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Sat May 10 21:23:18 2008
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 20:23:18 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <4825D4DA.4090905@gmail.com>
References: <48250761.6080504@smarc.net> <48250DD4.20503@comcast.net>
	<4825D4DA.4090905@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0K0O0079WPFB2HQB@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>

At 10:01 AM  5/10/2008, William M. Gilroy wrote:
>Water soaked glass
>    beads are a bitch.

I had that problem once, don't remember if it was really high 
humidity or I hadn't hooked up my air separator on the incoming line 
yet.  The beads got all clumped up.  I dug them all out and cooked 
them over a Harbor Freight propane hot plate I keep in the 
shop.   When they were hot enough to char a wooden stir stick I 
figured they were dry.  No problems since.  I have an air separator 
on the outlet of the compressor, and another one on the inlet to the 
blast cabinet.

Dave C

From smarc at smarc.net  Sun May 11 20:11:22 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 22:11:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <0K0O0079WPFB2HQB@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <48250761.6080504@smarc.net> <48250DD4.20503@comcast.net>
	<4825D4DA.4090905@gmail.com>
	<0K0O0079WPFB2HQB@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <4827A74A.5050909@smarc.net>

Of course, now I see this while poking around on the web... 
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96450

Marc

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sun May 11 20:37:42 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 19:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <4827A74A.5050909@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <129233.68778.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Did you notice the small print?

  "Paper filter has a one-year lifespan if cleaned
with a blow gun after each use"

Cleaning a vacuum cleaner filter with compressed air
is insanely messy!

I recommend the "used shop vac from a garage sale"
approach.  

In my experience, the biggest hindrance to visibility
is the plastic shield on the inside of the glass
getting frosted up.  Fortunately, I found that a
nearby hardware store carried semi-rigid plastic film
for about $2 per yard, which means that a replacing
the plastic costs me about $1...

Doug
 

--- Marc <smarc at smarc.net> wrote:

> Of course, now I see this while poking around on the
> web... 
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96450

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Sun May 11 21:39:48 2008
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 23:39:48 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <129233.68778.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4827A74A.5050909@smarc.net>
	<129233.68778.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <029701c8b3e1$d4d87c30$7e897490$@mele@usermail.com>

If there's SAND on that filter, and you aerosolize it, and breathe it,
you'll want to read up on silicosis.  A few times a year won't matter, but
daily blowing and cleaning will add up after about 10 years.  
Note that this is much better than the numbers for ASBESTOS exposure, where
as little as 2 months of working in a brake shop, causes measurable,
symptomatic disease. 

<<
  "Paper filter has a one-year lifespan if cleaned
with a blow gun after each use"

Cleaning a vacuum cleaner filter with compressed air
is insanely messy!
>>

PM

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Sun May 11 22:21:16 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 00:21:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <029701c8b3e1$d4d87c30$7e897490$@mele@usermail.com>
References: <4827A74A.5050909@smarc.net>
	<129233.68778.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<029701c8b3e1$d4d87c30$7e897490$@mele@usermail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805120020510.8252@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Sun, 11 May 2008, Paul Mele wrote:
> If there's SAND on that filter, and you aerosolize it, and breathe it, 
> you'll want to read up on silicosis.  A few times a year won't matter, 
> but daily blowing and cleaning will add up after about 10 years. Note 
> that this is much better than the numbers for ASBESTOS exposure, where 
> as little as 2 months of working in a brake shop, causes measurable, 
> symptomatic disease.

They still use asbestos in something?

Mark

From smarc at smarc.net  Sun May 11 22:45:41 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 00:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805120020510.8252@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <4827A74A.5050909@smarc.net>
	<129233.68778.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<029701c8b3e1$d4d87c30$7e897490$@mele@usermail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0805120020510.8252@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <4827CB75.8000307@smarc.net>

   Does  anyone actually use SAND? I have glass bead in my cabinet, and I
   wear a mask as well...
Marc

   Mark Andy wrote:

Howdy,

On Sun, 11 May 2008, Paul Mele wrote:

If there's SAND on that filter, and you aerosolize it, and breathe it,
you'll want to read up on silicosis.  A few times a year won't matter,
but daily blowing and cleaning will add up after about 10 years. Note
that this is much better than the numbers for ASBESTOS exposure, where
as little as 2 months of working in a brake shop, causes measurable,
symptomatic disease.

They still use asbestos in something?

Mark

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Mon May 12 10:57:59 2008
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:57:59 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Amusing problem for auto mechanics!
In-Reply-To: <abb8688a0805071340x368748bbi2eaa20ec663812b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <353894.51755.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<abb8688a0805071340x368748bbi2eaa20ec663812b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C797014C0AD4@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

I can't see the video (stupid content filters at work block video), but
I get the gist from the other replies.

Back in the late '60s, we were taking a cross country trip in our old
pickup.  We stopped in Phoenix for the night at a relative's house, and
hit the road the next morning.  About 600 miles later (we had additional
"saddle tanks" on the truck), we stopped for gas.  As I popped the hood
to check the oil, a very terrified cat jumped off the top of the air
cleaner and ran for it.  I doubt it ever found its way back home...

Tim Mullen

From eric at megageek.com  Mon May 12 11:02:22 2008
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:02:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
Message-ID: <OF782DDDC0.77B30ADD-ON85257447.005D99DE-85257447.005D99E3@mail.megageek.com>

I put my blast cabinet on a pallet.  This way, on nice days, I can use a
pallet jack to move it outside and the dust and noise are out there also.

Even with alot of space in a shop, I can't recommend enough the value of a
pallet jack.  I have lots of items on them that I don't want to have to
work around daily.  I move them out when I need them and push them back to
the side when I'm done.

Items like tire bead breakers, blast cabinets, generators, etc all work
nicely on a pallet.

Then, if you take the next step, get a forklife and pallet racking.  It has
done wonders for my space management!



Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Mon May 12 11:35:58 2008
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 12:35:58 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Chain saw on a pole
In-Reply-To: <050820080420.15839.48227FAB0009851700003DDF22165258069D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>
References: <050820080420.15839.48227FAB0009851700003DDF22165258069D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C797014C0B37@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

pethier at comcast.net wrote:
>
> Go buy one of those camper's chainsaws.  Looks like a chainsaw
> chain curled up

Or better still, a "Rope Saw".  I got mine at Harbor Freight, but
Northern Tools and others sell them usually for around $30.  Here's a
link to one:
http://www.cspoutdoors.com/higlimropcha.html

Basically it's a length of chain saw with ropes tied to each end.  Mine
(like the one pictured) has a weight hanging off of one end of the chain
that makes sure the cutting side is "down".  You throw one end of the
rope (with the bean bag on the end) over the limb, and when it gets to
the ground, you have both ends of the rope.  You then stand to the side
with the ropes at about a 45 degree angle.  The weight orients the chain
the right way (doesn't work if you are standing underneath it.  Then
start sawing by pulling each end of the rope.

How high you can go is only limited by how high you can toss the bean
bag, and how long a rope you add to the ends.  I used it to cut through
a huge limb that was protruding over my driveway (and the birds were
using to crap on my cars from).  I was much higher than I could have
reached with a pole saw.  Much cheaper, and takes up much less room in
storage.

Tim Mullen

Chantilly, VA

From ronglue at yahoo.com  Tue May 13 10:54:43 2008
From: ronglue at yahoo.com (Ron Horwitz)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] painting brick building with color change
Message-ID: <269736.76998.qm@web36308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I was the last to feign an excuse, so I have been
transformed from worker bee to foreman for this
project.  Brick commercial business, although it
closely resembles a one story, small house.  Currently
painted bright (did I say bright?) yellow, on its way
to tan.  On the gulf coast of Florida.  I've never
painted more than a room at a time and never outside,
so I'm looking for pointers.

I'm guessing that priming is a must?  What type of
finish (flat, semi-gloss, etc.) is recommended?  Any
tips (other than writing a check to a real painter) to
make my weekend easier?

I'll go to the Behr and Sherwin-Williams sites where
I'm sure I'll find stuff, but would rather hear it
from this list.

Thanks,
Ron
ronglue at yahoo.com

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Tue May 13 14:01:41 2008
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 16:01:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] painting brick building with color change
In-Reply-To: <269736.76998.qm@web36308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <269736.76998.qm@web36308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080513130956.R6990@itonami.pair.com>

On Tue, 13 May 2008, Ron Horwitz wrote:
> I'm guessing that priming is a must?  What type of
> finish (flat, semi-gloss, etc.) is recommended?  Any
> tips (other than writing a check to a real painter) to
> make my weekend easier?

    On a somewhat-related note, my house is currently a half-brick split 
ranch.  Due to the somewhat garish color of the brick ( orange ), we're 
going to cover it with some fake rock ( dyed concrete, Cast Natural Stone 
brand ).  The 'stone' can be mortered directly to an existing brick wall, 
but only if the brick is unsealed.

    Anyone know how I can tell definitively if the brick is sealed?  It 
doesn't seem to be, but the house is almost 40 years old.  Would it still 
be obvious?

    Thanks.

--
  David Hillman
  "not a mason, but playing one in a couple weeks"

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Tue May 13 19:49:40 2008
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 20:49:40 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] cost per foot of building
Message-ID: <000601c8b564$c69acd10$6b01a8c0@your72486d6880>

I'm wanting to add on to my shop in the near future... and will probably have
to do it in stages depending
on cost... which is the question.

Is there a place on the net or a formula you can use to calculate the cost per
ft to construct ??

block work, footing and slab

stick built walls, rafters, roof

siding

I'm in the southeast (Alabama) and I know the cost is different per region.

tia
John

From eric at megageek.com  Wed May 14 03:36:26 2008
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 05:36:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] cost per foot of building
In-Reply-To: <000601c8b564$c69acd10$6b01a8c0@your72486d6880>
Message-ID: <OF62F14BFA.74622234-ON85257449.0034915B-85257449.0035695B@mail.megageek.com>

John,

I don't remember the calculations for per ft building I used, but I do 
remember that to build higher was so cheap that it didn't make sense not 
to.

I put my ceiling height at 14' and to be frank, for the cost, I should 
have when to 20'.

With pallet shelving, car lifts, and being able to add a catwalk later, 
the extra cost for the height is minium.

Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Wed May 14 09:37:51 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:37:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] 18v battery dead?  Reviveable?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805141134310.22822@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

So I managed to leave my 18v NiCAD milwaukee light on, which of course 
drained the battery dead.  The battery is fairly new, it was one of the 
ones from the recall a little while back.

Anyway, now the battery won't charge.  I seem to recall something 
somewhere saying that if you drain it all the way dead, the charger won't 
recognize the battery on there and won't try to charge it?

Is that right?  How do I convince it to try charging anyway?

Or, did I just really kill this battery and I should write it off?

Thanks!

Mark

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed May 14 10:08:26 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 09:08:26 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 18v battery dead?  Reviveable?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805141134310.22822@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <20080514160826.MCMK21086.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall>

> Anyway, now the battery won't charge.  I seem to recall 
> something somewhere saying that if you drain it all the way 
> dead, the charger won't recognize the battery on there and 
> won't try to charge it?
> 
> Is that right?  How do I convince it to try charging anyway?

My Ryobi charger is like that.  To work around it, put a little charge into
the battery some other way.  If you can figure out which terminal is which,
an ordinary 12v automotive trickle charger will probably do.  I use my
adjustable bench supply.

> Or, did I just really kill this battery and I should write it off?

Unfortunately, it's likely that one or more cells is now shorted.  Running a
pack completely flat reverses the voltage on the weaker cells, which can
cause crystals to grow and short the plates.  There are potentially ways to
(partially) recover shorted cells, but they require disassembling the pack
and zapping the shorted cells with high current (from a capacitor).

Randall

From arvidj at visi.com  Wed May 14 11:00:17 2008
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:00:17 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Did we ever come to a conclusion about lithium-ion
	tools?
Message-ID: <003d01c8b5e3$fcea3430$ef281aac@behavioral.com>

My 12v Hitachi NiCad and my 15v Panasonic NiMH drills have both died of old battery age. The standard list of alternatives are:

(a) Rebuild the battery packs. Interesting thought but (i) work and (ii) not necessarily cost effective.

(b) Buy a new drill.

Assuming I go for plan (b), what was the general consensus for the new purchase.

My experience with both of the existing drills was that I had adequate power from both of them - enough that I would not consider 
the extra weight, bulk and expense of an 18v NiCad or NiMH to be a worthwhile tradeoff for the extra power it would offer. And as 
only an occasional user - once or twice a week - they sat on the charger for most of their lives.

But the weight and bulk of the 18v Li-ion does have me interested in them as a possible option. What is holding me back from the 
impulse purchase is my experience with Li-ion with my laptops. Great power and light weight - WHILE THEY LASTED. The total lifetime 
of the batteries did not seem to be very good. My Dell is on a desk top dock most of the time. When new the batteries were great but 
after only 24 months they are totally useless. My employer was able to get a replacement set of batteries and they worked great for 
about two weeks but after three weeks they were also totally useless. So I am hesitant to invest in technology that does not appear 
to fit my usage pattern.

Any thoughts anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

Arvid 

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Wed May 14 11:09:53 2008
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (paul.mele at usermail.com)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:09:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] cost per foot of building
In-Reply-To: <OF62F14BFA.74622234-ON85257449.0034915B-85257449.0035695B@mail.megage
	ek.com>
References: <000601c8b564$c69acd10$6b01a8c0@your72486d6880>
	<OF62F14BFA.74622234-ON85257449.0034915B-85257449.0035695B@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <48164.12.184.180.82.1210784993.squirrel@webmail.usermail.com>

> the extra cost for the height is minium.
>
>

I'll second that.
My house, built in 1987, averaged $74/ sq ft; we went from 8ft to 9 ft
ceilings for the 38 x 50 first floor for $1100 extra back then.  Very hard
to go back and add later!
My shop, built of ICF has 12 ft first floor and 9 ft second floor
ceilings.  again, the increment was small, but the number isn't in my
head, since I didn't price the short version first

PM

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed May 14 11:19:42 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:19:42 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Did we ever come to a conclusion about
 lithium-iontools?
In-Reply-To: <003d01c8b5e3$fcea3430$ef281aac@behavioral.com>
References: <003d01c8b5e3$fcea3430$ef281aac@behavioral.com>
Message-ID: <03b901c8b5e6$b2df8e00$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Any thoughts anyone would like to share would be appreciated.

Went through this same question myself just a few days ago.  What I found
were new 'clone' battery packs to fit my old Ryobi drill, even though the
Ryobi no longer offers them.  A pair of higher capacity (than original)
batteries was only about $50 with shipping.  Since a new drill with the same
features and Lion batteries cost 2-3 times that much, I opted to try the
clone batteries; with the thought that by the time they die, the market will
likely have decided on the best battery technology for cordless tools and
costs will come down.  Or not.

Li-ion seems to have come a long way; at least I've been very happy with the
rechargeable AA cells I bought last year for my digital camera.  They last
several times longer on a charge than alkalines, and are still going strong
after about a year.  Whether they would do that well in a cordless tool is a
different question ...

Worth noting perhaps, that some Dell models are known for poor battery
lifetime ... apparently a problem with the charging circuit rather than a
problem with the battery packs themselves.  No way is a 3 week lifetime
normal; perhaps the charger is really to blame.

Randall

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Wed May 14 11:30:22 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:30:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Did we ever come to a conclusion about
 lithium-iontools?
In-Reply-To: <03b901c8b5e6$b2df8e00$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
References: <003d01c8b5e3$fcea3430$ef281aac@behavioral.com>
	<03b901c8b5e6$b2df8e00$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805141030y128cc184k6e36d70b04c85e5a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Randall <tr3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote:
>> Any thoughts anyone would like to share would be appreciated.
>
> Went through this same question myself just a few days ago.  What I found
> were new 'clone' battery packs to fit my old Ryobi drill, even though the
> Ryobi no longer offers them.  A pair of higher capacity (than original)
> batteries was only about $50 with shipping.  Since a new drill with the same
> features and Lion batteries cost 2-3 times that much, I opted to try the
> clone batteries; with the thought that by the time they die, the market will
> likely have decided on the best battery technology for cordless tools and
> costs will come down.  Or not.
>
> Li-ion seems to have come a long way; at least I've been very happy with the
> rechargeable AA cells I bought last year for my digital camera.  They last
> several times longer on a charge than alkalines, and are still going strong
> after about a year.  Whether they would do that well in a cordless tool is a
> different question ...
>
> Worth noting perhaps, that some Dell models are known for poor battery
> lifetime ... apparently a problem with the charging circuit rather than a
> problem with the battery packs themselves.  No way is a 3 week lifetime
> normal; perhaps the charger is really to blame.
>

Are you sure you've got Li-ion AA batteries?  I've never seen, nor
even heard of such a thing.  There are Li-ion cells roughly the shape
of an AA battery, but they're 3.6 V a cell.

NiMh batteries, on the other hand, are very common, and do indeed last
longer  on a charge than Alkaline batteries do in high draw devices.
And NiMh battery life has about doubled in the last five years.

I'm pretty sure i've posted my rant about Li-Ion batteries here
before, so I won't repeat it (I don't have time, either), but they're
ill suited for most uses.  Their only redeeming feature is that
they've got the best energy/weight ratio of current tech, which for
things like laptops, phones and ipods outweighs their disadvantages.
(Which are cost, short lifetime (both in number of charge cycles and
purely calendar time), and tendency to burst into flame, among
others.)

I wouldn't buy a Li-Ion powered tool.  Maybe in a few years, but not now.

NiMh battery packs are pretty easy to rebuild, or as randall says, see
if you can find a generic replacement.


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed May 14 12:05:15 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:05:15 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Did we ever come to a conclusion about
 lithium-iontools?
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40805141030y128cc184k6e36d70b04c85e5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003d01c8b5e3$fcea3430$ef281aac@behavioral.com>
	<03b901c8b5e6$b2df8e00$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<2400a5d40805141030y128cc184k6e36d70b04c85e5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03c501c8b5ed$0fa3aa80$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Are you sure you've got Li-ion AA batteries?

Oops, you're quite right, David.  The rechargeable ones are NiMH; the
lithium-iron (not lithium-ion) AA cells I tried were disposables rather than
rechargeable.    My apologies to all for the misinformation.

The basic voltage of a Li-ion cell is 3.6v, so no way to make an AA substitute
without incorporating a DC-DC converter or using dummy cells.  I doubt we'll
ever see either solution on the market.

Randall

From bottorff25 at verizon.net  Wed May 14 12:46:17 2008
From: bottorff25 at verizon.net (bottorff25 at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:46:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] rebuilding battery packs
Message-ID: <26883062.1683171210790777377.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net>

On the subject of having battery packs rebuilt I had the service below rebuild every pack for every power tool at my previous employer. I was very pleased. They offer flat fees based on the voltage of the pack and offer 2100 mAh NiCd as well as NiMh options. If it runs on a rechargeable battery, they can help you.

www.primecell.com

-Damon

From doug at dougbraun.com  Wed May 14 12:52:54 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Did we ever come to a conclusion about
 lithium-iontools?
In-Reply-To: <03b901c8b5e6$b2df8e00$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <912665.27623.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Who makes general-purpose rechargable lithium AA
cells?

I have never seen a rechargable lithium battery in
a standard (AA, D, D, etc.) size, sold for consumer
use.

Doug

> Li-ion seems to have come a long way; at least I've
> been very happy with the
> rechargeable AA cells I bought last year for my
> digital camera.  They last
> several times longer on a charge than alkalines, and
> are still going strong
> after about a year.  Whether they would do that well
> in a cordless tool is a
> different question ...

From dreinsch at swbell.net  Wed May 14 18:15:40 2008
From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:15:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] cost per foot of building
Message-ID: <643873.25470.qm@web80201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I built a 20 by 20, 16 ft high "barn" shop several years ago.  My slab
estimates were from about 3000 to almost 6000.  The lumber, etc., wasn't as
big a difference, but very large.   You can draw it out, count the number of
2x4's you need and get an estimate from Home Depot, etc., very easily.  But..
be sure to get several estimates.
Dwade


----- Original Message ----
From:
"eric at megageek.com" <eric at megageek.com>
To: shop-talk
<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:36:26 AM
Subject:
Re: [Shop-talk] cost per foot of building

John,

I don't remember the
calculations for per ft building I used, but I do 
remember that to build
higher was so cheap that it didn't make sense not 
to.

I put my ceiling
height at 14' and to be frank, for the cost, I should 
have when to 20'.

With
pallet shelving, car lifts, and being able to add a catwalk later, 
the extra
cost for the height is minium.

Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's
no sign of a parachute."
    Tori Amos
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

You are subscribed as dreinsch at swbell.net
Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
http://www.team.net/archive

From nogera at worldnet.att.net  Thu May 15 18:54:01 2008
From: nogera at worldnet.att.net (Bob Nogueira)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 19:54:01 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor wheels
Message-ID: <003a01c8b6ef$57f59390$4101a8c0@CARROOM>

I was just watching Classic Tractors on RFD-TV and noticed that all the
tractors with the front wheel very close together had very high positive
camber while the ones with the front wheels spaced far apart did not. 
Could someone explain to a 'city boy' why they put in so much camber on a
tractor?

Bob Nogueira 

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu May 15 18:57:40 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:57:40 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor wheels
In-Reply-To: <003a01c8b6ef$57f59390$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
References: <003a01c8b6ef$57f59390$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805151757m33a2311dl6e133f2f6245f0ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Bob Nogueira <nogera at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I was just watching Classic Tractors on RFD-TV and noticed that all the
> tractors with the front wheel very close together had very high positive
> camber while the ones with the front wheels spaced far apart did not.
> Could someone explain to a 'city boy' why they put in so much camber on a
> tractor?

Reduces the amount of ground the front wheels are on, which means you
can plant  rows of crops closer together.  It also results in reduced
steering effort, which is important, as few, if any, tricycle tractors
had power steering.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From parkanzky at gmail.com  Thu May 15 19:01:06 2008
From: parkanzky at gmail.com (Paul Parkanzky)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:01:06 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor wheels
In-Reply-To: <003a01c8b6ef$57f59390$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
References: <003a01c8b6ef$57f59390$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <bdde53220805151801r2a43ca2cnd35a2fd6a5eacdc3@mail.gmail.com>

Just a guess, but maybe it's because they don't have power steering in
those old tractors.  The positive camber would make the wheels easier
to turn.

-Paul

On 5/15/08, Bob Nogueira <nogera at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I was just watching Classic Tractors on RFD-TV and noticed that all the
>  tractors with the front wheel very close together had very high positive
>  camber while the ones with the front wheels spaced far apart did not.
>  Could someone explain to a 'city boy' why they put in so much camber on a
>  tractor?
>
>  Bob Nogueira
>  _______________________________________________
>  Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>  You are subscribed as parkanzky at gmail.com
>
>  Shop-talk mailing list
>
>  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>  http://www.team.net/archive

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Thu May 15 19:32:07 2008
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:32:07 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor wheels
In-Reply-To: <bdde53220805151801r2a43ca2cnd35a2fd6a5eacdc3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003a01c8b6ef$57f59390$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
	<bdde53220805151801r2a43ca2cnd35a2fd6a5eacdc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea2385360805151832v247b3939i40f4996be8037780@mail.gmail.com>

*The "Tricycle" type tractor was, as has been explained, developed with the
extreme positive camber and the narrow tread width for both clearance from
the crop being cultivated and for ease of steering on the old non-boosted
tractors.  They were also meant for the cultivation of "row crops": cotton
and corn primarily; which were planted and grew in "rows" of normally 36 -
38 inch centers and these "rows" or "beds" were raised by "bedders" or
"busters" which created fairly steep beds.  The positive camber narrow tread
tended to follow the furrow for even more ease in driving.  There was
another trait of the non-boosted tractors and that was kick-back of the
steering when only ONE wheel struck a rock, root, clod, etc.  The kickback
would spin the steering wheel violently and one learned to keep his thumbs
retracted lest he have them sheared off or or fractured!  The Farmall "M"
was biggest offender as I remember.*
*Tony*
*(ol' tractor dealer)*

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Thu May 15 20:53:05 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 19:53:05 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor wheels
In-Reply-To: <bdde53220805151801r2a43ca2cnd35a2fd6a5eacdc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080516025305.HIZF28475.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@randall>

> Just a guess, but maybe it's because they don't have power 
> steering in those old tractors.  The positive camber would 
> make the wheels easier to turn.

Even with power steering, they still had the extreme camber (at least the
ones with two front wheels, some only had one wheel).  For all the reasons
that Tony explained, but primarily I believe to get the contact patches as
far from the corn rows on either side as possible.

Randall

From jem at milleredp.com  Thu May 15 23:38:20 2008
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 22:38:20 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor wheels
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360805151832v247b3939i40f4996be8037780@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003a01c8b6ef$57f59390$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
	<bdde53220805151801r2a43ca2cnd35a2fd6a5eacdc3@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea2385360805151832v247b3939i40f4996be8037780@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <482D1DCC.1040507@milleredp.com>

> retracted lest he have them sheared off or or fractured!  The Farmall "M"
> was biggest offender as I remember.*
> *Tony*
> *(ol' tractor dealer)*

I think what I plodded around in was a Farmall F20.

John.

From bugi1960 at gmail.com  Fri May 16 06:22:34 2008
From: bugi1960 at gmail.com (Philip Nase)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:22:34 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] breaker tripping on compressor
Message-ID: <364C74D0-6C6D-4F13-92F1-DB873421CAB8@mac.com>

I have a 220 line for my garage compressor.  It's worked fine for  
years.  Just this week when the pressure builds to shut off pressure  
it's tripping the breaker.

Any ideas what to look for?

Thanks.

Phil Nase

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Fri May 16 06:33:03 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:33:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] breaker tripping on compressor
In-Reply-To: <364C74D0-6C6D-4F13-92F1-DB873421CAB8@mac.com>
References: <364C74D0-6C6D-4F13-92F1-DB873421CAB8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805160533g64c58783l1a4b613b0ec42445@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Philip Nase <bugi1960 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a 220 line for my garage compressor.  It's worked fine for
> years.  Just this week when the pressure builds to shut off pressure
> it's tripping the breaker.
>
> Any ideas what to look for?

Bad pressure switch, letting the output pressure get too high?

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Fri May 16 07:27:22 2008
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:27:22 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] breaker tripping on compressor
In-Reply-To: <364C74D0-6C6D-4F13-92F1-DB873421CAB8@mac.com>
References: <364C74D0-6C6D-4F13-92F1-DB873421CAB8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A57E0A1EA37C4972878BB4EB01455E86@OwnerPC>

Compressor will draw more current as load on motor gets higher... could be a 
bad pressure switch...look at compressor pressure when it trips or it could 
just be a tired breaker... the key might be "worked fine for years".

I had the same problem with a tanning bed, worked fine for years then 
started tripping.  Tried cleaning the breaker contacts and reseating it a 
couple times... no change.  Finally replaced the breaker and now trouble 
free

john


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Philip Nase" <bugi1960 at gmail.com>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:22 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] breaker tripping on compressor


>I have a 220 line for my garage compressor.  It's worked fine for
> years.  Just this week when the pressure builds to shut off pressure
> it's tripping the breaker.
>
> Any ideas what to look for?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Phil Nase
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as jniolon at bham.rr.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From doug at dougbraun.com  Fri May 16 09:49:54 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:49:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] breaker tripping on compressor
In-Reply-To: <364C74D0-6C6D-4F13-92F1-DB873421CAB8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <499191.70702.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Maybe the breaker for that line is old and tired?
If possible, you should measure the current draw of
the compressor (e.g. with a clamp-on meter) and see
how it compares to the rated capacity of the circuit.

My air compressor trips its breaker a few times a
year, which I can put up with.  Unfortunately I have
an older breaker panel that uses expensive and
hard-to-replace breakers.  If I had a modern,
common-type panel with plug-in breakers, I would
simply spend the $10-15 to get a brand new breaker,
and spend a few minutes installing it, even if I
wasn't 100% certain the breaker was bad.

Doug


--- Philip Nase <bugi1960 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a 220 line for my garage compressor.  It's
> worked fine for  
> years.  Just this week when the pressure builds to
> shut off pressure  
> it's tripping the breaker.
> 
> Any ideas what to look for?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Phil Nase
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as doug at dougbraun.com
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From bugi1960 at gmail.com  Fri May 16 09:54:53 2008
From: bugi1960 at gmail.com (Phil Nase)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:54:53 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] breaker tripping on compressor
In-Reply-To: <499191.70702.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <499191.70702.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <96DE213B-E116-458D-8879-6EB804947448@gmail.com>

I think I will replace it.  Come to think of it the circuit for my  
garage heat was doing the same thing years ago and a new breaker fixed  
it.

The breaker itself isn't even 5 years old.

Thanks everyone for the help.

Phil Nase

On May 16, 2008, at 11:49 AM, Doug Braun wrote:

> Maybe the breaker for that line is old and tired?
> If possible, you should measure the current draw of
> the compressor (e.g. with a clamp-on meter) and see
> how it compares to the rated capacity of the circuit.
>
> My air compressor trips its breaker a few times a
> year, which I can put up with.  Unfortunately I have
> an older breaker panel that uses expensive and
> hard-to-replace breakers.  If I had a modern,
> common-type panel with plug-in breakers, I would
> simply spend the $10-15 to get a brand new breaker,
> and spend a few minutes installing it, even if I
> wasn't 100% certain the breaker was bad.
>
> Doug
>
>
> --- Philip Nase <bugi1960 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a 220 line for my garage compressor.  It's
>> worked fine for
>> years.  Just this week when the pressure builds to
>> shut off pressure
>> it's tripping the breaker.
>>
>> Any ideas what to look for?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Phil Nase
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>
>> You are subscribed as doug at dougbraun.com
>>
>> Shop-talk mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>>
>> http://www.team.net/archive

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Fri May 16 13:34:10 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 15:34:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] 18v battery dead?  Reviveable?
In-Reply-To: <20080514160826.MCMK21086.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall>
References: <20080514160826.MCMK21086.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805161512030.5157@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

So, following up on this...

In a feat of rationalization, I managed to turn the accidental death of a 
battery due to my stupidity into buying a four tool combo set.  :-)

A milwaukee 18v combo set on ebay was advertised as new, with the sawzall, 
circular saw, drill, light, two 18V (ni-cad) batteries, & a charger. 
Shipped to my house, it was $300.

If you're interested, here's how I got there.  :-)

I'd told myself a while back that my next set of batteries would be the 
v18 Li-Ion deals.  I was attracted to the lighter weight / more power per 
charge.

Milwaukee has a deal on those where for $200 you get two batteries & a 
charger (the old ni-cad chargers that I have a bunch of don't work).  It 
was kinda a lot of money, but I've got a battery impact gun that uses the 
Milwaukee batteries (bought when it was one of the only games in town) and 
a drill I bought because it used the same batteries (important at an 
event).

Downside was that none of my existing chargers would would with the new 
v18 li-ion batteries, including my 12v car charger which is how I charge 
the batteries at events.  But I was gonna suck it up anyway for the coolio 
new tech.

Anyway, I figure I should look at the v18 combo kits.  The ones at the 
retail places (coastaltool, etc.) are all a decent bit more than I want to 
spend and there aren't any real deals.

So I look on ebay.  Ebay has one (new) kit that has a sawzall, drill, 
light, two v18 batteries, and a charger.  Best part?  $290 with shipping. 
That's $90 over the cost of just the batteries/charger kit.

Then I notice the seller has some combined shipping deal, and I kinda like 
the idea of getting one of the cordless circular saws.  So I hit "show me 
seller's other items".

I don't see a circular saw by itself, but I _do_ see another kit, using 
the older 18v ni-cad or whatever batteries, that has a circular saw, 
sawzall, drill, light, two batteries, charger, and a toolbag.  And its 
only $10 more than the kit above.

In the meantime, I've read somewhere about how Li-ion battery technology 
may not be the best in terms of "overall battery life" (i.e. # of charge 
cycles before battery doesn't work).  And I've not really had any issues 
with battery life really.

So for $10 more, I get the full kit.  I mostly ignore that I'm now no 
longer getting the v18 stuff, considering it to be a positive that I can 
use my existing chargers.  However, even if you ignore the v18 vs. 18v 
battery technology, I still got two tools I didn't have and wanted, plus 
another drill, plus a light, plus another charger (that I'll keep in the 
RV) for only about $180 over the cost of two replacement batteries alone.

Mark


On Wed, 14 May 2008, Randall wrote:

>> Anyway, now the battery won't charge.  I seem to recall
>> something somewhere saying that if you drain it all the way
>> dead, the charger won't recognize the battery on there and
>> won't try to charge it?
>>
>> Is that right?  How do I convince it to try charging anyway?
>
> My Ryobi charger is like that.  To work around it, put a little charge into
> the battery some other way.  If you can figure out which terminal is which,
> an ordinary 12v automotive trickle charger will probably do.  I use my
> adjustable bench supply.
>
>> Or, did I just really kill this battery and I should write it off?
>
> Unfortunately, it's likely that one or more cells is now shorted.  Running a
> pack completely flat reverses the voltage on the weaker cells, which can
> cause crystals to grow and short the plates.  There are potentially ways to
> (partially) recover shorted cells, but they require disassembling the pack
> and zapping the shorted cells with high current (from a capacitor).
>
> Randall
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as mark at sccaprepared.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From coles at colesnurseries.com  Fri May 16 17:22:37 2008
From: coles at colesnurseries.com (Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc))
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:22:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
Message-ID: <00ea01c8b7ab$bae30570$0c01a8c0@Fest>

I was wondering if anyone has purchased a home plating kit offered by the auto
restoration industry (Eastwood).  I purchased one and it appears to be decent
although I am not sure how long the plating will hold up.  This one only does
one at a time.  Is there something bigger and reasonably priced out there ?
Also, has anyone made their own ? Is the solution and anode available online
or available elsewhere under another name ??
Thanks,
Dan

From strovato at optonline.net  Fri May 16 17:38:52 2008
From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:38:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8b7ab$bae30570$0c01a8c0@Fest>
References: <00ea01c8b7ab$bae30570$0c01a8c0@Fest>
Message-ID: <0K0Z00HT7J0T2B10@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

Try here:

http://www.caswellplating.com/

From mikey at b2systems.com  Fri May 16 17:47:13 2008
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:13 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c8b7ab$bae30570$0c01a8c0@Fest>
References: <00ea01c8b7ab$bae30570$0c01a8c0@Fest>
Message-ID: <482E1D01.4040606@b2systems.com>

 Love my EW Zinc plating kit, so far things have help quite well, bolts 
out in the weather for 6 years now still look good, some are showing 
signs of rust where the wrench might have taken some plating off.  But 
of course this is S. Cal. weather and it never rains in Calif.

  My next one will be a Caswell Plating kit ! Why ? because it does not 
use the silly little batteries and instead takes a transformer plugged 
into the wall, I have had bad platings because the batteries were weak.  
Of course I have said I want the Caswell for 6 years now and I still buy 
batteries, I have now graduated to rechargeables but I need to get more 
solution soon and will get the Caswell.  I expect it will have the same 
lasting quality as the EW kit.

    mike


 Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc) wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has purchased a home plating kit offered by the auto
> restoration industry (Eastwood).  I purchased one and it appears to be decent
> although I am not sure how long the plating will hold up.  This one only does
> one at a time.  Is there something bigger and reasonably priced out there ?
> Also, has anyone made their own ? Is the solution and anode available online
> or available elsewhere under another name ??
> Thanks,
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as mikey at b2systems.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Fri May 16 18:35:09 2008
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:35:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <482E1D01.4040606@b2systems.com>
References: <00ea01c8b7ab$bae30570$0c01a8c0@Fest>
	<482E1D01.4040606@b2systems.com>
Message-ID: <482E283D.1020704@xxiii.com>

Mike Rambour wrote:
>   My next one will be a Caswell Plating kit ! Why ? because it does not 
> use the silly little batteries and instead takes a transformer plugged 
> into the wall, I have had bad platings because the batteries were weak.  

Isn't it just a low voltage DC power supply?  Radio Shack sells various
benchtop supplies.  Or you could even rig up s spare PC power supply.

   -Wayne

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Fri May 16 19:07:11 2008
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:07:11 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
References: <00ea01c8b7ab$bae30570$0c01a8c0@Fest><482E1D01.4040606@b2systems.com>
	<482E283D.1020704@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <BC9E36F3C00F4118A32AAF1BFCC65E52@KARL>

OK - I've been waiting for this one.

Is 24 volts too much ?  I have a heavy-duty lift-truck-type battery charger 
that I'd love to put to this use.  There are no other taps available on the 
transformer inside, so it will only put out 24 volts.

If I need a lower voltage, can I convert it somehow ?

Thanks !
Karl




> Mike Rambour wrote:
>>   My next one will be a Caswell Plating kit ! Why ? because it does not
>> use the silly little batteries and instead takes a transformer plugged
>> into the wall, I have had bad platings because the batteries were weak.
>
> Isn't it just a low voltage DC power supply?  Radio Shack sells various
> benchtop supplies.  Or you could even rig up s spare PC power supply.
>
>   -Wayne
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From bill at gingerich.us  Fri May 16 20:34:46 2008
From: bill at gingerich.us (Bill Gingerich)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 21:34:46 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <BC9E36F3C00F4118A32AAF1BFCC65E52@KARL>
References: <00ea01c8b7ab$bae30570$0c01a8c0@Fest><482E1D01.4040606@b2systems.com><482E283D.1020704@xxiii.com>
	<BC9E36F3C00F4118A32AAF1BFCC65E52@KARL>
Message-ID: <005801c8b7c6$92b2ad10$64dea8c0@shack2>

There are several voltage regulator chips on the market that could be used
to reduce the voltage from 24 to 12 or almost any other voltage you need.
The biggest question is how much current does plating take?  You'll need a
regulator that can pass that much current.  I built a small regulator for
the gauges on my Triumph for about $10 in parts from Radio Shack.  The
schematic for the circuit was included with the regulator I used.

There are other solutions that are less hassle, but building stuff is fun
anyway.

Bill G
Newalla, OK



-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+bill=gingerich.us at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+bill=gingerich.us at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Karl Vacek
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:07 PM
To: Shop Talk List
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] home plating kits

OK - I've been waiting for this one.

Is 24 volts too much ?  I have a heavy-duty lift-truck-type battery charger 
that I'd love to put to this use.  There are no other taps available on the 
transformer inside, so it will only put out 24 volts.

If I need a lower voltage, can I convert it somehow ?

Thanks !
Karl




> Mike Rambour wrote:
>>   My next one will be a Caswell Plating kit ! Why ? because it does not
>> use the silly little batteries and instead takes a transformer plugged
>> into the wall, I have had bad platings because the batteries were weak.
>
> Isn't it just a low voltage DC power supply?  Radio Shack sells various
> benchtop supplies.  Or you could even rig up s spare PC power supply.
>
>   -Wayne
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as kvacek at ameritech.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 
You are subscribed as bill at gingerich.us

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

http://www.team.net/archive

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri May 16 21:05:06 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:05:06 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <BC9E36F3C00F4118A32AAF1BFCC65E52@KARL>
Message-ID: <20080517030506.DROC21231.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@randall>

> Is 24 volts too much ?  I have a heavy-duty lift-truck-type 
> battery charger that I'd love to put to this use.

Could be done, but you'll need to add to it; including filter capacitors and
some way to control the voltage.

> If I need a lower voltage, can I convert it somehow ?

Yeah, but unless you are planning on doing fairly large objects, it's
probably going to be simpler, and easier to just buy a more suitable power
supply.  Check out eBay, or your local hamfest.

But this would be one way to control the voltage :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190221999112

Randall

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sat May 17 07:34:57 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 06:34:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <005801c8b7c6$92b2ad10$64dea8c0@shack2>
Message-ID: <862151.83242.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Things like filtering and electronic regulation aren't
necessary for a plating setup.

You can probably control the current by changing the
size of the anode (or is it a cathode?), and the
distance from the anode to the work.  If you have a
6/12 volt battery charger, you can swithc the setting.

The important thing is a way to measure the current,
so you know what is going on.

In any case, using batteries for plating is sort of
lame, technically speaking...

Doug



--- Bill Gingerich <bill at gingerich.us> wrote:

> There are several voltage regulator chips on the
> market that could be used
> to reduce the voltage from 24 to 12 or almost any
> other voltage you need.
> The biggest question is how much current does
> plating take?  You'll need a
> regulator that can pass that much current.  I built
> a small regulator for
> the gauges on my Triumph for about $10 in parts from
> Radio Shack.  The
> schematic for the circuit was included with the
> regulator I used.
> 
> There are other solutions that are less hassle, but
> building stuff is fun
> anyway.
> 
> Bill G
> Newalla, OK

From mikey at b2systems.com  Sat May 17 11:12:56 2008
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:12:56 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <862151.83242.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <862151.83242.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <482F1218.9020603@b2systems.com>

Problem with all these great solutions, is you can talk about the 
intricacies of bearing clearances or piston to cylinder clearances or 
valve timing to the nth degree to me, but talk to me about regulator 
chips, anodes, cathodes or who knows what else and you are talking a 
foreign language.  I know enough about the EastWood plating kit that I 
hate its batteries although they have served me very well over the 
years, I will pay for a Caswell one with someone else's design power 
supply, push the button and plate.  Sometimes ignorance is bliss and 
sometimes its expensive, this is one of those expensive times for me but 
I have no interest in learning a foreign language at my age.


    Mike

Doug Braun wrote:
> Things like filtering and electronic regulation aren't
> necessary for a plating setup.
>
> You can probably control the current by changing the
> size of the anode (or is it a cathode?), and the
> distance from the anode to the work.  If you have a
> 6/12 volt battery charger, you can swithc the setting.
>
> The important thing is a way to measure the current,
> so you know what is going on.
>
> In any case, using batteries for plating is sort of
> lame, technically speaking...
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> --- Bill Gingerich <bill at gingerich.us> wrote:
>
>   
>> There are several voltage regulator chips on the
>> market that could be used
>> to reduce the voltage from 24 to 12 or almost any
>> other voltage you need.
>> The biggest question is how much current does
>> plating take?  You'll need a
>> regulator that can pass that much current.  I built
>> a small regulator for
>> the gauges on my Triumph for about $10 in parts from
>> Radio Shack.  The
>> schematic for the circuit was included with the
>> regulator I used.
>>
>> There are other solutions that are less hassle, but
>> building stuff is fun
>> anyway.
>>
>> Bill G
>> Newalla, OK
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as mikey at b2systems.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From strovato at optonline.net  Sat May 17 11:53:13 2008
From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:53:13 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <862151.83242.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <005801c8b7c6$92b2ad10$64dea8c0@shack2>
	<862151.83242.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0K1000L8VXP46VO0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

Another thing you can do is stick a light bulb in the circuit.  This 
kit from the UK uses a car battery and light bulb. (not provided, of course)

http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/zinc.htm

At 09:34 AM 5/17/2008, Doug Braun wrote:
>Things like filtering and electronic regulation aren't
>necessary for a plating setup.
>
>You can probably control the current by changing the
>size of the anode (or is it a cathode?), and the
>distance from the anode to the work.  If you have a
>6/12 volt battery charger, you can swithc the setting.

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sat May 17 12:05:35 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 11:05:35 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <482F1218.9020603@b2systems.com>
Message-ID: <20080517180535.DSTU28475.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@randall>

> but I have no interest in 
> learning a foreign language at my age.

Aw c'mon Mike.  Think of it as a new programming language, only much, much
simpler.

Randall - who still writes in C <G>

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sat May 17 14:44:50 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 13:44:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <0K1000L8VXP46VO0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Message-ID: <822114.2920.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Great idea!  Naturally you can change the bulb wattage
to adjust the current.  Just don't bother trying to
use a
compact fluorescent bulb to save energy!

Doug


--- Steven Trovato <strovato at optonline.net> wrote:

> Another thing you can do is stick a light bulb in
> the circuit.  This 
> kit from the UK uses a car battery and light bulb.
> (not provided, of course)

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sat May 17 19:29:13 2008
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 01:29:13 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor wheels
Message-ID: <051820080129.27825.482F8669000A20E600006CB1220075115004040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

still got your thumbs?

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: John Miller <jem at milleredp.com>
> > retracted lest he have them sheared off or or fractured!  The Farmall "M"
> > was biggest offender as I remember.*
> > *Tony*
> > *(ol' tractor dealer)*
> 
> I think what I plodded around in was a Farmall F20.

From jem at milleredp.com  Sat May 17 22:14:05 2008
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 21:14:05 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Tractor wheels
In-Reply-To: <051820080129.27825.482F8669000A20E600006CB1220075115004040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
References: <051820080129.27825.482F8669000A20E600006CB1220075115004040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <482FAD0D.1000307@milleredp.com>

> still got your thumbs?
> 
>>>retracted lest he have them sheared off or or fractured!  The Farmall "M"
>>>was biggest offender as I remember.*
>>>*Tony*
>>>*(ol' tractor dealer)*
>>
>>I think what I plodded around in was a Farmall F20.

Yeah, but then I last drove the thing when I was eleven, and I'm pretty 
sure my father never let me do anything particularly challenging...

I still do remember what that solid-round-bar-on-a-ball-socket shifter 
felt like...now I just need enough land to justify having another one.

John.

From coles at colesnurseries.com  Sun May 18 09:40:04 2008
From: coles at colesnurseries.com (Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc))
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 11:40:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] DC power supplay for home plating
Message-ID: <008c01c8b8fd$71b84ec0$0c01a8c0@Fest>

Guys:
At the very least, does a place like Radio Shack sell a DC power supply unit
that converts ac to dc then puts out the same volts as 2 D's ??? If not too
expensive, this would be a bit more reliable then the Batterys plus allow
alittle experimenting with a little higher voltages. Any thoughts ??
Dan

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sun May 18 11:07:14 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 10:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] DC power supplay for home plating
In-Reply-To: <008c01c8b8fd$71b84ec0$0c01a8c0@Fest>
Message-ID: <381489.78099.qm@web601.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A few years ago I got a pretty nice
battery-replacement power supply from RS.  It has a
switch to select 3-4.5-6-7.6-9-12 volts, it is
electronically regulated (good for powering a CD
player, not so important for plating), can put out
800mA, and has a bunch of different style plugs you
could put on the end of the cord.

The part number is 273-1667.

They don't seem to carry this any more, but their
model  273-029 has the same output voltages, a higher
current capacity (1000 vs 800mA), and appears smaller.
 (Geek moment:  it is probably a switcher instead of a
transformer supply).  It sells for $18.99, which is a
good deal, considering that they are trying to get $30
for cell phone chargers which are simpler and cheaper
to make.

If you have a lot of electronic gadgets around the
house and shop, this sort of power supply can be very
handy.  It is almost as useful as an adjustable
laboratory or test-bench power supply, and costs much
much less.

Doug



--- "Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc)"
<coles at colesnurseries.com> wrote:

> Guys:
> At the very least, does a place like Radio Shack
> sell a DC power supply unit
> that converts ac to dc then puts out the same volts
> as 2 D's ??? If not too
> expensive, this would be a bit more reliable then
> the Batterys plus allow
> alittle experimenting with a little higher voltages.
> Any thoughts ??
> Dan
> _____

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun May 18 11:39:17 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 10:39:17 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] DC power supplay for home plating
In-Reply-To: <008c01c8b8fd$71b84ec0$0c01a8c0@Fest>
Message-ID: <20080518173917.MGND25439.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@randall>

> At the very least, does a place like Radio Shack sell a DC 
> power supply unit that converts ac to dc then puts out the 
> same volts as 2 D's ??? If not too expensive, this would be a 
> bit more reliable then the Batterys plus allow alittle 
> experimenting with a little higher voltages. Any thoughts ??

Apparently Radio Shack no longer carries anything resembling a variable
bench power supply.  But I do see several fixed "battery eliminator" type
power supplies that could be used, if you add some means to control and
measure the current.

Randall

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun May 18 12:03:43 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 11:03:43 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] home plating kits
In-Reply-To: <862151.83242.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080518180343.XIFH15993.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@randall>

> Things like filtering and electronic regulation aren't 
> necessary for a plating setup.

I agree about the electronic regulation.  But since current density plays a
part in the quality of the plating (particularly chrome plating), it's
important to get the current density reasonably constant.  Which means that,
for a single phase AC rectifier (like most battery chargers), some sort of
filtering is a must.  10% ripple is probably OK, but my battery charger puts
out more like 100%.

> You can probably control the current by changing the size of the anode (or
is it a cathode?),
> and the distance from the anode to the work.

But electrode size is also important for getting a relatively constant
current density over the surface of the part.  And since the chemicals are
expensive, having a tank big enough to significantly reduce current is going
to cost a whole lot more than other forms of control.

The string of bulbs idea will work, but it's difficult to predict in advance
what the resistance of the bulb will be at the current of interest.  The
resistance of most incandescent bulbs goes way up as the filament gets hot
(which is why they so frequently fail when you first turn them on).

Randall

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Sun May 18 23:17:45 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 01:17:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] DC power supplay for home plating
In-Reply-To: <20080518173917.MGND25439.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@randall
  >
References: <008c01c8b8fd$71b84ec0$0c01a8c0@Fest>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080519011745.00a5a7e8@pop.east.cox.net>

At 10:39 AM 5/18/2008 -0700, Randall wrote:

>Apparently Radio Shack no longer carries anything resembling a variable
>bench power supply.  But I do see several fixed "battery eliminator" type
>power supplies that could be used, if you add some means to control and
>measure the current.

Bummer!!!  I've had a test bench variable power supply from
Radio Shack for over 20 yrs, maybe longer.  It's fantastic, and
wasn't that expensive when I purchased it.  I also have a 12VDC
at 6 to 10 amp supply kit that I built back in the 70s to power
my 2 meter radios.  Put it in a case, with a switchable meter to
show volts and amps.

I use both of these quite a bit.

I did do a search for variable power supplies, and found some 
nice ones.  Some aren't very expensive. 

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/powe/xp15k.htm

http://www.instructables.com/id/Variable-DC-Power-Supply-for-15/

http://sciencekit.com/product.asp?pn=IG0024435&sid=2008FS&eid=2008FS&mr:refe
rralID=9378c687-255d-11dd-990b-000423bb4e79

http://www.tequipment.net/ElencoXP-15K.html

http://www.circuithut.com/index.php?/circuit/content/view/full/273

http://www.hobbytron.com/product1142.html

http://www.hobbytron.com/Regulated-Power-Supply4.html

http://www.hobbytron.com/UK400.html

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PS-613/480/0-30VDC+5VDC+12VDC_LAB
_PWR_SUPPLY_LCD_DISPLAY_.html


John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Mon May 19 05:51:51 2008
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 23:51:51 -1200
Subject: [Shop-talk] DC power supplay for home plating
Message-ID: <483169d7.d1.158d6.216068541@ml2.myemail.com>

How about a model railroad power supply? Most are 12V - 16V
DC output at max setting.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC 
Login from home, work, school.  Anywhere!

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Mon May 19 07:02:23 2008
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 08:02:23 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] DC power supplay for home plating
References: <008c01c8b8fd$71b84ec0$0c01a8c0@Fest>
	<3.0.5.32.20080519011745.00a5a7e8@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <E69F3362768243F6B9B0A3A46C715F1C@KARL>

With all the talk about power supplies for plating, would someone please 
give us non-electronic types some succinct guidance on what's required for a 
plating power supply ?

What I mean is the general current and voltage requirements, which parameter 
is most important to control, etc.  How do we figure out how large a tank a 
particular power supply can handle ?

Thanks!
Karl 

From smarc at smarc.net  Mon May 19 16:58:47 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 18:58:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water filter for blast cabinet
In-Reply-To: <482663EA.6080102@smarc.net>
References: <3.0.5.32.20080510075512.00a9a7c8@pop.east.cox.net>
	<482663EA.6080102@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <48320627.405@smarc.net>

You know, this filter also makes a pretty efficient CAPACITOR...  
Apparently some of my water evaporated, and after running the thing a 
while, it took in enough glass bead to absorb what little water was 
left, leaving a very thick paste in the bottom. Soooo.... a LOT of 
static was generated, and was  STORED by the filter/capacitor.

So after working for a while I decide check on the filter. I remove the 
lid, reach in to remove the metal baffle plate, and WHAM! It knocks me 
on my arse and causes a mild case of Tourette Syndrome...

I took a jumper cable and tried to discharge it. Drew SEVERAL large 
discharges, even left it there for a bit. It still had plenty of juice. 
I finally had to use a couple foot long wooden dowel with a hook to 
dismantle it.

Yow!

Marc



Marc wrote:
> Thanks to all for some pretty cool ideas. In the end, I went for 
> simplicity and just made a baffle, a) because I could use what I had on 
> hand, and b) because I could get on with what I actually set out to do!
>
> I took some sheet metal,  cut out a circle sized to fit snugly in the 
> bucket, about 1/3 of the way down. Cut a hole for the inlet pipe to pass 
> through, and drilled about a dozen holes in the center.
>
> Success! Just the tiniest dribble of water in the hose to the shop vac, 
> not enough to be concerned with. Upon firing up the vacuum, the first 
> thing I noticed was the gloves were sucked into the cabinet (they 
> usually hang out the front, inside out...) It works fantastically! I can 
> see inside the cabinet, and there was no dust everywhere on everything! 
> The only downside is having to wear ear protection now. However, with 
> enough hose I can put the shop vac outside...

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Mon May 19 20:03:56 2008
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 02:03:56 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] water pumps
Message-ID: <052020080203.13198.4832318C000B542D0000338E220588601404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

okay, this will be fun.

we bought a house with a pool.  the house (and the pool) are turning out to be a huge pain in the ass.

I'd like to build a water cannon (for blasting my wife, what else?) and I was pondering pumps.

I thought we'd use sch. 80, or maybe iron pipe, mount it on a pintle, and make the orifice .25", and perfect the size through trial and error.

but what to use for the pump?  my first thought was swimming pool booster pump, but I thought maybe you guys would know that *of*course* I needed a pump from a whatever whatever, which would just be right.  or a place to look?

the pump will draw from the pool for supply, and a dedicated circuit for the power.  it will be about 40 feet from the pool itself (but the intake and the, ahem, outlet will be at the pool).  I don't want to kill anybody, but we're looking for a 40 foot or so effective range.

basically, if she wants us to come in, she's going to really, really, have to want it.

and if any of you are artistically inclined, you think flames, or lightning bolts?

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Mon May 19 20:11:28 2008
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 02:11:28 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] water pumps
Message-ID: <052020080211.23802.48323350000C1CB000005CFA220588601404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

hm.  I deleted an important paragraph.  it's a pool cannon, and to be used during the 'after fixing the house all day' pool breaks.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: scott.hall at comcast.net
> okay, this will be fun.
> 
> we bought a house with a pool.  the house (and the pool) are turning out to be a 
> huge pain in the ass.
> 
> I'd like to build a water cannon (for blasting my wife, what else?) and I was 
> pondering pumps.

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon May 19 20:12:03 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 22:12:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] water pumps
In-Reply-To: <052020080203.13198.4832318C000B542D0000338E220588601404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
References: <052020080203.13198.4832318C000B542D0000338E220588601404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805191912v28962f7dt4f00a378b8aae004@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:03 PM,  <scott.hall at comcast.net> wrote:
> okay, this will be fun.
>
> we bought a house with a pool.  the house (and the pool) are turning out to be a huge pain in the ass.
>
> I'd like to build a water cannon (for blasting my wife, what else?) and I was pondering pumps.
>
> I thought we'd use sch. 80, or maybe iron pipe, mount it on a pintle, and make the orifice .25", and perfect the size through trial and error.
>
> but what to use for the pump?  my first thought was swimming pool booster pump, but I thought maybe you guys would know that *of*course* I needed a pump from a whatever whatever, which would just be right.  or a place to look?
>

A fire truck.  Duh.
>  I don't want to kill anybody, but we're looking for a 40 foot or so effective range.
>

Oh.  Never mind, then.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From pearsontechcomm at comcast.net  Wed May 21 16:41:28 2008
From: pearsontechcomm at comcast.net (Traci Pearson)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:41:28 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em
Message-ID: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>

I've had my share of sheared bolts on 510s, and
in the past I always had someone else extract
them for me. But I want to learn to do it on myself.

This is a short 10 mm bolt that I know I didn't
really torque down, but age and vibration and
heat... Anyway, how can I get ahold of and back
out the bolt part that's left inside? The bolt
sheared below the lip of the hole, so there's
nothing sticking out to grab on to.

I figured I'd start with some Liquid Wrench, but
what's the best way to proceed from there? It's
in an awkward place; I don't know if I could get
a drill bit (or attachment) straight onto it. Maybe my Dremel?

What about those kits such as a GrabIt?

Any ideas/techniques/advice are greatly appreciated!
Thanks!


Traci Pearson
Pearson Technical Communication
Writing, Editing, Information Design  Print and Online
pearsontechcomm at comcast.net
(303) 410-9101

When something can be read without great effort,
great effort went into its writing.
         ~ Enrique Jardiel Poncela

From mikey at b2systems.com  Wed May 21 16:53:59 2008
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:53:59 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em
In-Reply-To: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>
References: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <4834A807.1020901@b2systems.com>

 Left handed drill bits !  They work wonders, more than half the time 
they grab the bolt and remove it and the few times they don't grab it, 
well you were going to have to use a ez-out anyway, so let the left 
handed drill bit make the hole.

 mike

Traci Pearson wrote:
> I've had my share of sheared bolts on 510s, and
> in the past I always had someone else extract
> them for me. But I want to learn to do it on myself.
>
> This is a short 10 mm bolt that I know I didn't
> really torque down, but age and vibration and
> heat... Anyway, how can I get ahold of and back
> out the bolt part that's left inside? The bolt
> sheared below the lip of the hole, so there's
> nothing sticking out to grab on to.
>
> I figured I'd start with some Liquid Wrench, but
> what's the best way to proceed from there? It's
> in an awkward place; I don't know if I could get
> a drill bit (or attachment) straight onto it. Maybe my Dremel?
>
> What about those kits such as a GrabIt?
>
> Any ideas/techniques/advice are greatly appreciated!
> Thanks!
>
>
> Traci Pearson
> Pearson Technical Communication
> Writing, Editing, Information Design  Print and Online
> pearsontechcomm at comcast.net
> (303) 410-9101
>
> When something can be read without great effort,
> great effort went into its writing.
>          ~ Enrique Jardiel Poncela
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as mikey at b2systems.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Wed May 21 16:55:23 2008
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:55:23 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em
References: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <009501c8bb95$d67fcc80$ae10c263@ejrussell>

If possible, some sort of jig to guide a drill bit straight into the 
bolt's center is worth the effort to construct. Some times it's as 
simple as a bushing that will fit over the protruding bit of the bolt 
or fit into the hole the bolt is inside. And since it is usually a 
one-time use jig, hardwood is often sufficient (cheaper & easier to 
make if you gots scraps of wood lying about).

Left hand drill bits might prove useful.

I like PB Blaster as a rust penetrating lube.

I am always leery of the mis-labeled "Easy-Outs". If the bolt is just 
broken but not otherwise seized they work well. But that scenario is 
rare. They break because they are seized/rusted in place. And if you 
break an Easy Out in the broken bolt then you will learn why curse 
words were invented.

If drilling with progressively larger drill bits will not allow you to 
drill out the bolt until only the threads remain and allow the 
weakened threads to be picked out then consider drilling it out 
completely and using a thread repair insert (such as Heli-Coil).

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Traci Pearson"


> I've had my share of sheared bolts on 510s, and
> in the past I always had someone else extract
> them for me. But I want to learn to do it on myself.
>
> Any ideas/techniques/advice are greatly appreciated!
> Thanks!

From cak at dimebank.com  Wed May 21 17:16:48 2008
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:16:48 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em
In-Reply-To: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>
References: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <4834AD60.4000505@dimebank.com>

Traci Pearson wrote:
> I've had my share of sheared bolts on 510s, and
> in the past I always had someone else extract
> them for me. But I want to learn to do it on myself.
> 
> This is a short 10 mm bolt that I know I didn't
> really torque down, but age and vibration and
> heat... Anyway, how can I get ahold of and back
> out the bolt part that's left inside? The bolt
> sheared below the lip of the hole, so there's
> nothing sticking out to grab on to.
> 

My condolences. We've all been there.

Check out http://www.dimebank.com/tech/BrokenBolt.html for a compendium 
of techniques and advice...

Best,
chris

From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com  Wed May 21 17:41:46 2008
From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 19:41:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em
In-Reply-To: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <000201c8bb9c$3eee3530$0201a8c0@DADSTOY>

Traci there are three rules" 1)patience 2)patience 3)patience....

OK so here is what to do: A) get yourself a good sharp center punch. Get it
as close to the center as you can and give it a real healthy smack with a
big hammer. You only get one chance on this so get it in the center and make
it a good dimple. B)LW is OK, but if you want the best, find Kroil. C) Is
this a spot where you can apply heat? If so heat it. It works best if you
can use a small welding tip on an ox/act torch. Best to direct the flame on
the broken stud. D) When it has cooled naturally, apply the Kroil and let it
soak for a few hours. E) Repeat this sequence 7 times (seven is a lucky
number) F) Now try the left handed drill. I start with a small drill and
work to the largest I can get in w/o getting into the threads. G) If you
weren't lucky it is now time to try the Easy Out (talk about an oxymoron!)
Be sure you select an Easy Out that is large enough in diameter that it
won't hit the bottom of the hole when you smack it sharply with a big
hammer. Now try backing it out. If the EO starts to twist and the broken
stud doesn't, stop! You don't want to snap that because that is when thing
really turn bad. Go back to B and C and repeat.

If this doesn't work you may just have to keep increasing drill size until
you have drilled the threads out and go buy a Helicoil....now that's another
story.


-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Traci Pearson
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 6:41 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em


I've had my share of sheared bolts on 510s, and
in the past I always had someone else extract
them for me. But I want to learn to do it on myself.

This is a short 10 mm bolt that I know I didn't
really torque down, but age and vibration and
heat... Anyway, how can I get ahold of and back
out the bolt part that's left inside? The bolt
sheared below the lip of the hole, so there's
nothing sticking out to grab on to.

I figured I'd start with some Liquid Wrench, but
what's the best way to proceed from there? It's
in an awkward place; I don't know if I could get
a drill bit (or attachment) straight onto it. Maybe my Dremel?

What about those kits such as a GrabIt?

Any ideas/techniques/advice are greatly appreciated!
Thanks!


Traci Pearson
Pearson Technical Communication
Writing, Editing, Information Design  Print and Online
pearsontechcomm at comcast.net
(303) 410-9101

When something can be read without great effort,
great effort went into its writing.
         ~ Enrique Jardiel Poncela
You are subscribed as gerrybraz at cablespeed.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

http://www.team.net/archive

From ericm at lne.com  Wed May 21 17:51:01 2008
From: ericm at lne.com (ericm at lne.com)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:51:01 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em
In-Reply-To: <4834A807.1020901@b2systems.com>
References: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>
	<4834A807.1020901@b2systems.com>
Message-ID: <20080521235101.GA13101@slack.lne.com>

"EZ-outs" are shit.  Don't even bother.
They are hard all the way through and thus break very easily.
Then you have a hard chunk of steel in the middle of your bolt.

I use a dremel tool and a stone to grind a divot
in the center of the broken off bolt.  If it's not too hard
you can use a punch.  You want a good center in order to
center the drill.

Left hand drill bits are good but I've never gotten around
to buying any.  Even regular right hand drilling can
sometimes loosen up a stuck bolt.

Eric


On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 03:53:59PM -0700, Mike Rambour wrote:
>  Left handed drill bits !  They work wonders, more than half the time
> they grab the bolt and remove it and the few times they don't grab it,
> well you were going to have to use a ez-out anyway, so let the left
> handed drill bit make the hole.
>
>  mike
>
> Traci Pearson wrote:
> > I've had my share of sheared bolts on 510s, and
> > in the past I always had someone else extract
> > them for me. But I want to learn to do it on myself.
> >
> > This is a short 10 mm bolt that I know I didn't
> > really torque down, but age and vibration and
> > heat... Anyway, how can I get ahold of and back
> > out the bolt part that's left inside? The bolt
> > sheared below the lip of the hole, so there's
> > nothing sticking out to grab on to.
> >
> > I figured I'd start with some Liquid Wrench, but
> > what's the best way to proceed from there? It's
> > in an awkward place; I don't know if I could get
> > a drill bit (or attachment) straight onto it. Maybe my Dremel?
> >
> > What about those kits such as a GrabIt?
> >
> > Any ideas/techniques/advice are greatly appreciated!
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > Traci Pearson
> > Pearson Technical Communication
> > Writing, Editing, Information Design  Print and Online
> > pearsontechcomm at comcast.net
> > (303) 410-9101
> >
> > When something can be read without great effort,
> > great effort went into its writing.
> >          ~ Enrique Jardiel Poncela
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >
> > You are subscribed as mikey at b2systems.com
> >
> > Shop-talk mailing list
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> >
> > http://www.team.net/archive
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as ericm at lne.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From pearsontechcomm at comcast.net  Wed May 21 17:57:46 2008
From: pearsontechcomm at comcast.net (Traci Pearson)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:57:46 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] more info on sheared bolt
Message-ID: <20080521235313.587DF18798A@autox.team.net>

Hi again!
I don't weld, and this isn't a good time for me
to learn, so welding of any sort is out...if I'm
going to fix it myself. And this isn't a bolt
that takes a lot of stress or torque. The frame
member the bolt goes into not only appears to be
steel but, given that the rest of the frame it, it probably is.


Traci Pearson
Pearson Technical Communication
Writing, Editing, Information Design  Print and Online
pearsontechcomm at comcast.net
(303) 410-9101

When something can be read without great effort,
great effort went into its writing.
         ~ Enrique Jardiel Poncela

From doug at dougbraun.com  Wed May 21 18:16:05 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:16:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em
In-Reply-To: <000201c8bb9c$3eee3530$0201a8c0@DADSTOY>
Message-ID: <635057.36997.qm@web604.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I bought one of those mini oxy-acetylene sets a couple
of years ago.  I've never actually welded anything
with it, but it has worked wonders at removing frozen
bolts and screws.

I was able to remove 23 of 24 screws holding the door
hinges to the body of my '31 Ford.  If you have ever
tried to remove those hinge mounting screws from old
cars, you will understand my happiness.

Doug


--- Gerald Brazil <gerrybraz at cablespeed.com> wrote:
 C) Is
> this a spot where you can apply heat? If so heat it.
> It works best if you
> can use a small welding tip on an ox/act torch. Best
> to direct the flame on
> the broken stud. D) When it has cooled naturally,
> apply the Kroil and let it
> soak for a few hours.

From shiples at comcast.net  Wed May 21 18:29:50 2008
From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:29:50 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] sheared bolts...I hate 'em
In-Reply-To: <20080521223653.C7B8A1878BA@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080521165656.045a0b40@mail.comcast.net>

At 04:41 PM 5/21/2008 -0600, Traci Pearson wrote:
>I've had my share of sheared bolts on 510s, and
>in the past I always had someone else extract
>them for me. But I want to learn to do it on myself.

I spent a little time learning this myself last year.
I probably had 8 different broken fasteners on a
Ford 351W.  Got one out by welding a nut on.
Next time I tried it I failed.

What I just learned out of these posts is to use
a jig to drill out the broken fastener.  I have an
intake manifold that needs repair because I
thought I could drill accurately.  Drilling a steel
fastener out of an iron casting is more forgiving
than aluminum.

Accurate drilling WILL work.  Any other method
MIGHT work.  The idea is to choose the best
strategy.  No one can look at a broken
fastener and predict which chemical, tool, or process
will be successful

The trouble with accurate drilling is that step one of
the process might be remove engine or lift body
from chassis.

You go out to change the thermostat and end up
disassembling the front end of the car.

From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com  Wed May 21 18:29:03 2008
From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 20:29:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] more info on sheared bolt
In-Reply-To: <20080521235313.587DF18798A@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <001301c8bba2$d96944f0$0201a8c0@DADSTOY>

Traci, if you don't have an ox/acty torch you can use a hand propane torch.
It is just that the welding torch does an excellent job of concentrating the
heat. Also, once you get that first punch mark centered, you can punch it
again. The combination of penetrant, heat and vibration will loosen up the
rust and corrosion. Don't give up just take your time.

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Traci Pearson
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:58 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] more info on sheared bolt


Hi again!
I don't weld, and this isn't a good time for me
to learn, so welding of any sort is out...if I'm
going to fix it myself. And this isn't a bolt
that takes a lot of stress or torque. The frame
member the bolt goes into not only appears to be
steel but, given that the rest of the frame it, it probably is.


Traci Pearson
Pearson Technical Communication
Writing, Editing, Information Design  Print and Online
pearsontechcomm at comcast.net
(303) 410-9101

When something can be read without great effort,
great effort went into its writing.
         ~ Enrique Jardiel Poncela
You are subscribed as gerrybraz at cablespeed.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

http://www.team.net/archive

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Thu May 22 22:37:34 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 00:37:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] 18v battery dead?  Reviveable?
In-Reply-To: <20080514160826.MCMK21086.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall>
References: <20080514160826.MCMK21086.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@randall>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805230035420.1746@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Wed, 14 May 2008, Randall wrote:
>> Anyway, now the battery won't charge.  I seem to recall
>> something somewhere saying that if you drain it all the way
>> dead, the charger won't recognize the battery on there and
>> won't try to charge it?
>>
>> Is that right?  How do I convince it to try charging anyway?
>
> My Ryobi charger is like that.  To work around it, put a little charge 
> into the battery some other way.  If you can figure out which terminal 
> is which, an ordinary 12v automotive trickle charger will probably do. 
> I use my adjustable bench supply.

So, I gave this a shot tonight.  Checked polarity on a charged batter with 
a meter, then hooked up a 12v jumper pack to the dead battery pack and 
left it for a while.  After a half hour or so, tossed it back onto a 
charger and the light came on saying it was charging!

Battery seemed to work after charging, but of course I don't know if 
runtime has been affected.

Anyway, thanks!

Mark

From eric at megageek.com  Fri May 23 05:21:44 2008
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:21:44 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805230035420.1746@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <OF10541E7B.12C5CAF0-ON85257452.003E1BA4-85257452.003F1548@mail.megageek.com>

OK, so I borrowed a rototiller from a friend that hasn't used it in years.

Besides the exhaust valve being stuck (I fixed that,) the carb seems to be 
varnished.

I dissembled it and cleaned everything that I could reach.  It seems there 
isn't much access to the insides of this carb (it's a small B&S motor.)

So, is there a product I can leave the carb soaking in for a while to 
break up the old gas? 

I leave for Iraq in a few weeks and I wanted to rototill before I left. 

Thanks.

Inch

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Fri May 23 05:44:35 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:44:35 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb
In-Reply-To: <OF10541E7B.12C5CAF0-ON85257452.003E1BA4-85257452.003F1548@
	mail.megageek.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805230035420.1746@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080523074435.00a601d8@pop.east.cox.net>

At 07:21 AM 5/23/2008 -0400, eric at megageek.com wrote:
>OK, so I borrowed a rototiller from a friend that hasn't used it in years.
>
>Besides the exhaust valve being stuck (I fixed that,) the carb seems to be 
>varnished.
>
>I dissembled it and cleaned everything that I could reach.  It seems there 
>isn't much access to the insides of this carb (it's a small B&S motor.)
>
>So, is there a product I can leave the carb soaking in for a while to 
>break up the old gas? 

Inch,

You can buy a 1 gal. can of carb cleaner at most auto parts stores.
It comes with a basket to put the parts in.  Simply place the parts
in the gal can and let soak for 20 minutes, remove, and dry off,
reassemble.

You can also try squirting in some carb cleaner and letting that sit,
but the spray cleaner evaporates fairly quickly.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From kennedybc at comcast.net  Fri May 23 06:37:09 2008
From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C. Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:37:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20080523074435.00a601d8@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <C45C32B5.8C90%kennedybc@comcast.net>

I left the gasket on and soaked the carb over night. The gasket swelled up
and I had to wait for it to dry out. Don't soak the gasket. Carb worked fine
after cleaning. 

Brian  K.




> From: "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net>
> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 07:44:35 -0400
> To: <shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb
> 
> At 07:21 AM 5/23/2008 -0400, eric at megageek.com wrote:
>> OK, so I borrowed a rototiller from a friend that hasn't used it in years.
>> 
>> Besides the exhaust valve being stuck (I fixed that,) the carb seems to be
>> varnished.
>> 
>> I dissembled it and cleaned everything that I could reach.  It seems there
>> isn't much access to the insides of this carb (it's a small B&S motor.)
>> 
>> So, is there a product I can leave the carb soaking in for a while to
>> break up the old gas?
> 
> Inch,
> 
> You can buy a 1 gal. can of carb cleaner at most auto parts stores.
> It comes with a basket to put the parts in.  Simply place the parts
> in the gal can and let soak for 20 minutes, remove, and dry off,
> reassemble.
> 
> You can also try squirting in some carb cleaner and letting that sit,
> but the spray cleaner evaporates fairly quickly.
> 
> John
> 
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va    
> Phone:  (757) 495-8229
> 
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
> 
> Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
> Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org
> 
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Don55CM at aol.com  Fri May 23 07:56:59 2008
From: Don55CM at aol.com (Don55CM at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 09:56:59 EDT
Subject: [Shop-talk] DC power supplay for home plating
Message-ID: <ce0.2da67c13.3568272b@aol.com>

In a message dated 5/19/2008 9:03:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
kvacek at ameritech.net writes:

With all  the talk about power supplies for plating, would someone please 
give us  non-electronic types some succinct guidance on what's required for a 
 
plating power supply ?

What I mean is the general current and  voltage requirements, which parameter 
is most important to control,  etc.  How do we figure out how large a tank a 
particular power supply  can handle ?



The directions for you kit should tell you how much current is required per  
surface area of part being plated.  Most important is the current.   The 
resistance of the tank will be very low (fraction of an ohm).  Cheap  way is to get 
a voltage only regulated power supply, and put a high current 1  ohm resistor 
in series with the tank.  Best way is to get a current  controlled power 
supply, turn the voltage limit up and use the current  control.  Too much current 
will make the plating rough, dull and  porous.  If you use an unregulated 
supply (battery or charger), you need to  vary the control resistance based on the 
size of the part being  plated.  That's a real pain.
 
Don



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with 
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

From jibjib at att.net  Fri May 23 18:42:59 2008
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:42:59 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb
In-Reply-To: <OF10541E7B.12C5CAF0-ON85257452.003E1BA4-85257452.003F1548@mail.megageek.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805230035420.1746@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<OF10541E7B.12C5CAF0-ON85257452.003E1BA4-85257452.003F1548@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <009001c8bd37$1e8c20d0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Turpentine or other "not so fast" evaporating distillate should be fine,
assuming there were no plastic parts in there.

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
eric at megageek.com
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:22 AM
To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb

OK, so I borrowed a rototiller from a friend that hasn't used it in years.

Besides the exhaust valve being stuck (I fixed that,) the carb seems to be
varnished.

I dissembled it and cleaned everything that I could reach.  It seems there
isn't much access to the insides of this carb (it's a small B&S motor.)

So, is there a product I can leave the carb soaking in for a while to break
up the old gas? 

I leave for Iraq in a few weeks and I wanted to rototill before I left. 

Thanks.

Inch

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos
You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

http://www.team.net/archive

From eric at megageek.com  Fri May 23 19:23:42 2008
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 21:23:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb
In-Reply-To: <009001c8bd37$1e8c20d0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <OF3AD801F8.BECA54B9-ON85257453.0007860C-85257453.000854C8@mail.megageek.com>

Just a follow up.

I bought the "Gunk" brand "paint can-o-cleaning for carbs.  about 1 hour 
in there and the carb runs great!   I wish I would have know about this 
stuff YEARS ago!

Thanks to all for the suggestions!

Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos




"Jack Brooks" <jibjib at att.net> 
Sent by: shop-talk-bounces+eric=megageek.com at autox.team.net
05/23/2008 20:40

To
<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
cc

Subject
Re: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb






Turpentine or other "not so fast" evaporating distillate should be fine,
assuming there were no plastic parts in there.

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
eric at megageek.com
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:22 AM
To: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reviving a carb

OK, so I borrowed a rototiller from a friend that hasn't used it in years.

Besides the exhaust valve being stuck (I fixed that,) the carb seems to be
varnished.

I dissembled it and cleaned everything that I could reach.  It seems there
isn't much access to the insides of this carb (it's a small B&S motor.)

So, is there a product I can leave the carb soaking in for a while to 
break
up the old gas? 

I leave for Iraq in a few weeks and I wanted to rototill before I left. 

Thanks.

Inch

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos
You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

http://www.team.net/archive
You are subscribed as eric at megageek.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

http://www.team.net/archive

From doug at dougbraun.com  Tue May 27 08:41:31 2008
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 07:41:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Solar-powered battery charger for generator?
Message-ID: <573555.62575.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,

My parents have a backup generator for their house. 
Unfortunately any time they want to use it, the
starter battery is dead, and they're not up to
pull-starting it.  My first thought was to get an
ordinary battery maintainer and hook it up, but
unfortunately the generator is in a garden shed, and
there is no power feed to the shed, only the generator
output line from the shed to the house.

It seems like a solar-powered battery maintainer would
do the trick, but I need to find one that has a solar
panel that can be mounted on the shed roof, and has a
charge-controller circuit that will keep the battery
in good condition for months at a time.

I have seen the type of solar charger that you put on
your car's dashboard and plug into the cigarette
lighter, but I really need something better.

Any suggestions on where to look?

Thanks,

Doug

From eric at megageek.com  Tue May 27 08:41:28 2008
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:41:28 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Solar-powered battery charger for generator?
Message-ID: <OF52400D78.30AC8AFC-ON85257456.0050B38E-85257456.0050B395@mail.megageek.com>

Doug,

I have one that I used when I was stationed in AZ for a motorcycle.  I
don't remember what it cost, but if you pay for shipping, you can have it.
(I will not need it in the desert of Iraq.)  8>)


Inch
"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos



-----shop-talk-bounces+eric=megageek.com at autox.team.net wrote: -----


Doug writes...

I have seen the type of solar charger that you put on
your car's dashboard and plug into the cigarette
lighter, but I really need something better.

Any suggestions on where to look?

Thanks,

Doug

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Tue May 27 09:46:26 2008
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 10:46:26 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Solar-powered battery charger for generator?
In-Reply-To: <573555.62575.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <573555.62575.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7970158EE18@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

Doug Braun wrote:
>
> It seems like a solar-powered battery maintainer would
> do the trick, but I need to find one that has a solar
> panel that can be mounted on the shed roof, and has a
> charge-controller circuit that will keep the battery
> in good condition for months at a time.

Battery MINDer makes a nice one - a little pricy, but it conditions
desulphates) the battery while maintaining it.  In my experience, it
seems to extend the life of the battery significantly.

Here's their web site:
<http://www.vdcelectronics.com/batteryminder_solar_5W.htm>, but you can
find it for less if you shop around on line.

Tim Mullen

From pethier at comcast.net  Tue May 27 10:54:37 2008
From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:54:37 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Solar-powered battery charger for generator?
Message-ID: <052720081654.14877.483C3CCD000C8D0A00003A1D22155517249D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>

It may be easlier to install equipment to use the power line to bring power to the shed until  the generator is needed.

--
Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net    http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com>
> Hello,
> 
> My parents have a backup generator for their house. 
> Unfortunately any time they want to use it, the
> starter battery is dead, and they're not up to
> pull-starting it.  My first thought was to get an
> ordinary battery maintainer and hook it up, but
> unfortunately the generator is in a garden shed, and
> there is no power feed to the shed, only the generator
> output line from the shed to the house.
> 
> It seems like a solar-powered battery maintainer would
> do the trick, but I need to find one that has a solar
> panel that can be mounted on the shed roof, and has a
> charge-controller circuit that will keep the battery
> in good condition for months at a time.
> 
> I have seen the type of solar charger that you put on
> your car's dashboard and plug into the cigarette
> lighter, but I really need something better.
> 
> Any suggestions on where to look?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
> 
> You are subscribed as pethier at comcast.net
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> 
> http://www.team.net/archive

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue May 27 11:35:36 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:35:36 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Solar-powered battery charger for generator?
In-Reply-To: <573555.62575.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080527133536.00a5fa90@pop.east.cox.net>

At 07:41 AM 5/27/2008 -0700, Doug Braun wrote:

>My parents have a backup generator for their house. 
>Unfortunately any time they want to use it, the
>starter battery is dead, and they're not up to
>pull-starting it....

>It seems like a solar-powered battery maintainer would
>do the trick....

Doug,

I don't know much about the solar chargers,  but a couple of thoughts 
come to mind:

1. The battery may not be their only problem.  What are they doing
    for fuel.  Is it gas or natural gas?  If gas, then the gas may have
    gone bad by the time they need it, and gunked up the carb.

2. Storing enough gas is a problem also.  They will have to use the
    gas, say to power their car, and slowly replentish their supply.

3. What about starting it every 2 weeks to a month and let it run
    for 10 to 15 minutes to charge the battery?  Only cost is the 
    consumption of the fuel, which can easily be replaced (and probably
    should be.  Also lets them know that it does run!

4. How far away from the house (main power) is the shed.  Why
   not run an extension cord, underground, out to the shed.  Then
   when as storm is coming they could connect a standard battery
   charger to the generator's battery for a quick charge.  While they
   are there, they could also start it to be sure it is working.

5. What about a battery jumper pack?  They are cheap.  Carry it
    in their car incase they have problems with their car battery.
    But when they need to start the gen. they could carry it to the
   shed and jump start the generator.  Then it should recharge the
   battery.

So other possibilites.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From nogera at worldnet.att.net  Tue May 27 12:14:44 2008
From: nogera at worldnet.att.net (Bob Nogueira)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:14:44 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
Message-ID: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>

 Okay I'm giving up on those little electric  pressure washers.  I've gone
through three in as many years. I'm going to up grade to a more expensive
one that I don't have to replace every year.  Problem is I really don't need
one that can blow the paint off the house and is bigger than my lawn mower
to wash off the patio. 2000 psi would be plenty since the cheapies worked
okay for what I needed at 1500 psi.
Any suggestions as to what to get?   Like I said I'm not looking for the
Hemi of pressure washers but rather the Toyota of pressure washers,
something that will last .

Thanks for any suggestions

Bob Nogueira

From lee at automate-it.com  Tue May 27 12:51:23 2008
From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:51:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
References: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <1936.192.246.38.159.1211914283.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>

This one from Lowe's is a newer version of mine (mine has no wheels! :-(

and it's suitable for my purposes, which are similar to yours. See it here:

   http://tinyurl.com/2z7fpp

  - Lee


>  Okay I'm giving up on those little electric  pressure washers.  I've gone
> through three in as many years. I'm going to up grade to a more expensive
> one that I don't have to replace every year.  Problem is I really don't need
> one that can blow the paint off the house and is bigger than my lawn mower
> to wash off the patio. 2000 psi would be plenty since the cheapies worked
> okay for what I needed at 1500 psi.
> Any suggestions as to what to get?   Like I said I'm not looking for the
> Hemi of pressure washers but rather the Toyota of pressure washers,
> something that will last .
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Bob Nogueira

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Tue May 27 12:58:01 2008
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:58:01 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
References: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7970158EFF2@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

Bob Nogueira wrote:
>
> I really don't need one that can blow the paint off the house
> and is bigger than my lawn mower to wash off the patio. 2000 psi
> would be plenty since the cheapies worked okay for what I needed
> at 1500 psi.

I don't have one (one thing my wife keeps vetoing), but one advantage of
the higher powered ones is that it can still do the same job as the
smaller ones, but much faster.  Instead of spending 30 minutes washing
down your patio, you'd be spending 10 minutes.

Tim Mullen

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Tue May 27 13:09:16 2008
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:09:16 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
References: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <483C5C5C.1030208@xxiii.com>

Bob Nogueira wrote:
> Like I said I'm not looking for the
> Hemi of pressure washers but rather the Toyota of pressure washers,
> something that will last .

The "hemi" is one of the most overrated overhyped pieces of BS in all of automotive history, IMO...  and lots of Toyota engines WERE hemis too! (22R, 5MGE, etc)

But on topic...  I bought an "Excel" brand at Home Depot about 4 years ago for ~$400 and it's worked very well.  Unfortunately, I don't see one similar on their web site now.  I bought based on engine -- it has a Honda 5 or 6HP;  I really didn't want a B&S.. I don't know much about how the pumps differ, but so far it's held up.  Only thing I've missed is an adjustable throttle -- this one just has one of those auto-regulators.  The only way to adjust the pressure is via the nozzle size.  It has a long "wheelbarrow" style frame, but the handle can be flipped around so it's above the engine, reducing storage space -- very nice.

   -Wayne

From watsonm05 at comcast.net  Tue May 27 13:25:51 2008
From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:25:51 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
References: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <008f01c8c02f$7bdac570$0202a8c0@watsongxpejt9r>

Hi there,

    Like you I used to have one of those electric models though I bought it 
at least 15 years ago.  It went missing after my brother died about 6 years 
ago (I think he loaned it out and it was never returned).  My reaction to 
owning it was just like yours - more power this time!  I got one of these 
from Home Depot: http://www.excellpressurewasher.com/xc2800.asp
and it made reasonably quick work of cleaning the wood siding on the front 
of the house and the railing on the handicap ramp.  It's taking a lot longer 
to paint the ramp railing than it took to clean it!  I like the fact that 
the handles reverse for storage.  Also, in practice the "Adjustable Spray 
Patterns" head has worked great - no nozzles to get lost, easy to switch, 
and great to dance to (OK just kidding on the last one).  Be warned - it 
sure is a challenge to restart the motor after refueling when you forget to 
release the pressure in the hose.

    Good luck.

Mark Watson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Nogueira" <nogera at worldnet.att.net>
To: "Shop Talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:14 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers


> Okay I'm giving up on those little electric  pressure washers.  I've gone
> through three in as many years. I'm going to up grade to a more expensive
> one that I don't have to replace every year.  Problem is I really don't 
> need
> one that can blow the paint off the house and is bigger than my lawn mower
> to wash off the patio. 2000 psi would be plenty since the cheapies worked
> okay for what I needed at 1500 psi.
> Any suggestions as to what to get?   Like I said I'm not looking for the
> Hemi of pressure washers but rather the Toyota of pressure washers,
> something that will last .
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
>
> Bob Nogueira
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as watsonm05 at comcast.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive 

From smarc at smarc.net  Tue May 27 13:43:04 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:43:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] cheap ni-cad packs for tools
Message-ID: <483C6448.2040609@smarc.net>

I have an older Ryobi 12v drill, prob getting on 10 years old. Last time 
the battery packs died a few years back, it was cheaper to buy another 
that came with a new battery pack.

So now I have two Ryobi 12v drills, (one brand-new, never used) and no 
good battery packs. News ones are $40 + shipping.

Anyway, I notice that Harbor Freight has an 18v battery pack on sale for 
$10. Thats a REALLY cheap source of sub-c nicads! I bought one, took it 
apart, and used it's cells to rebuild one of my Ryobi packs. It's 
charging now... If it works out, I'll buy another and rebuild the other 
two packs...

-- 

Marc

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Tue May 27 13:57:25 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 12:57:25 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] cheap ni-cad packs for tools
In-Reply-To: <483C6448.2040609@smarc.net>
References: <483C6448.2040609@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <0d9601c8c033$e2af6630$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Anyway, I notice that Harbor Freight has an 18v battery pack 
> on sale for 
> $10. Thats a REALLY cheap source of sub-c nicads! 

How do the current ratings compare ?  Also, will the HF cells take a fast
charge ?

Randall

From smarc at smarc.net  Tue May 27 14:30:42 2008
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 16:30:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] cheap ni-cad packs for tools
In-Reply-To: <0d9601c8c033$e2af6630$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
References: <483C6448.2040609@smarc.net>
	<0d9601c8c033$e2af6630$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <483C6F72.4050706@smarc.net>

   All  battery  spec's  are  absolutely  UNKNOWN. And for about 67 cents
   each, it makes no difference to me - it's only an occasional use tool.
   Thats why I didn't pay for a battery pack...
Marc

   Randall wrote:

Anyway, I notice that Harbor Freight has an 18v battery pack
on sale for
$10. Thats a REALLY cheap source of sub-c nicads!

How do the current ratings compare ?  Also, will the HF cells take a fast
charge ?

Randall

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Tue May 27 14:53:26 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:53:26 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
References: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <0db001c8c03b$b5ec8800$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Any suggestions as to what to get?   Like I said I'm not 
> looking for the
> Hemi of pressure washers but rather the Toyota of pressure washers,
> something that will last .

I've likewise been happy with the Excel brand unit I've had for about 5
years now.  The pump seals have started leaking a little (likely a result of
my trying to feed it hot water) but otherwise it works well.  This year I
had to pull the valve apart on the 'adjustable' wand to clean and lube it.

Not sure what brand motor offhand, probably a B&S 6hp vertical shaft.  Has a
sliding control for the governor (with cute little rabbit and turtle icons),
but I always run it at max.

ISTR it's rated something like 1800 psi and 2 gpm (or 3600 "cleaning
units").

Randall

From battmain at yahoo.com  Tue May 27 16:55:36 2008
From: battmain at yahoo.com (Battmain)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 15:55:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
Message-ID: <494312.40187.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I picked up a 3000 psi unit from Lowes for around
$500 a few years ago after
some dipstick's version
of pressure washing was using my garden hose
on the
paint. Grrrr!
Other than the fuel shutoff valve going bad, it has
cleaned the
house in preparation for painting and
cleaned the sidewalk multiple times.
I bypassed the
fuel shutoff valve and it has been working fine 
since I did
it. 
For the tip, I got a rotating one because all the 
other valves didn't
work fast enough for my liking with
the four layers of paint that was on my
house. 
Looking at the lowes website, the closest I see is
now $799, but I
figure the more pressure, the 
better. Yeah, I tried the little electric unit
from a
friend and all it did was annoy me. :) It wouldn't
even remove a paint
spot from the driveway. The
new one will and if I'm not carefull, remove the
driveway too.  Don't forget the safety gear. I had 
goggles, ear protection,
thick leather gloves. 
Brian
battmain at yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Bob Nogueira <nogera at worldnet.att.net>
To: Shop Talk
<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:14:44 PM
Subject:
[Shop-talk] Pressure washers

Okay I'm giving up on those little electric 
pressure washers.  I've gone
through three in as many years. I'm going to up
grade to a more expensive
one that I don't have to replace every year. 
Problem is I really don't need
one that can blow the paint off the house and
is bigger than my lawn mower
to wash off the patio. 2000 psi would be plenty
since the cheapies worked
okay for what I needed at 1500 psi.
Any suggestions
as to what to get?  Like I said I'm not looking for the
Hemi of pressure
washers but rather the Toyota of pressure washers,
something that will last .
Thanks for any suggestions

Bob Nogueira
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net 
http://www.team.net/donate.html

You are subscribed as battmain at yahoo.com
Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
http://www.team.net/archive

From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org  Wed May 28 07:10:03 2008
From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 09:10:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
References: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <20080528131002.GA63095@sackheads.org>

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 01:14:44PM -0500, Bob Nogueira wrote:
> Any suggestions as to what to get?   

I have a Craftsman (6.75hp B&S, 2450psi @ 2gpm, adjustable nozzle).  I think 
I paid around $300 off-season 3-4 years ago.  It seems to do a good job.
Used it to clean the deck yesterday in fact.  I went with Craftsman over the 
other box store units in hopes that the Sears parts store will stock replacement 
valves and gaskets for years to come should something break.  Time will tell...

So far, I have two complaints about the unit:

When the adjustable nozzle is set to the widest fan pattern, the edges of the 
spray are still fairly intense and can gouge wood if the wand is held too close.  
Does anybody else's fan pattern have this defect?

Second, the pump is designed so that the detergent injector works only at
the low pressure setting.  There are times when I've wished that it also worked
on the high pressure setting (similar to a self-service car wash).  Years ago I
had a spray gun for the air compressor with a rubber tube that would siphon
liquid when spraying.  Anybody know if a similarly-designed pressure washer 
wand exists?

A recommendation for anybody who has a pressure washer:  if your washer has
those little solid "lawn mower style" wheels, consider mounting some 
pneumatic wheels.  A few weeks ago Harbor Freight had 10" pneumatic wheels
marked down to $5.  Mounted a pair of these on my washer and now it's MUCH easier
to move around the yard and over the pebble walkways.

From hal at katemuir.com  Wed May 28 09:44:28 2008
From: hal at katemuir.com (Hal Faulkner)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 08:44:28 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <20080528131002.GA63095@sackheads.org>
Message-ID: <HJECLIGCCJIHGFIGICMFCEOKHCAA.hal@katemuir.com>

Jimmy,
Horrible Fright sells just such an item:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3953
I have one of these and it works quite well for its purpose, not for large
areas, however.
Hal

-----Original Message-----
.... Years ago I
had a spray gun for the air compressor with a rubber tube that would siphon
liquid when spraying.  Anybody know if a similarly-designed pressure washer
wand exists?

From obaa996 at yahoo.com  Wed May 28 11:34:19 2008
From: obaa996 at yahoo.com (Obaa)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13921.1211980197.1200.shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <910761.53875.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I bought my pressure washer at the local air
compressor supply house (didn't know they sold those
until I wandered in looking for air fittings); the
price was a bit more than HomeDepot at the time, but
I'm sure I can get it serviced if necessary.
They also sold me a "rotary" wand head.  I was
skeptical, but the thing is fantastic.  The spray
pattern rotates, and you end up covering a much larger
area very quickly.
Regarding pressure.  I bought a much larger washer
than I needed; I think it's around 4000+.  Its water
consumption outstrips what my hose bib can supply, so
the washer ends up pulsing as it waits for water; I
have to slow down the washer to match, which means the
excess power is unutilized.  Something to think about
when shopping...

From eric at megageek.com  Wed May 28 12:05:28 2008
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:05:28 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] oxy-acetylene cutting
Message-ID: <OF2F7CC30E.3DEFAC9D-ON85257457.006360ED-85257457.006360F0@mail.megageek.com>

Quick question about oxy-acetylene cutting.

When I cut with my torch, the molten metal b
reconnectsb
 behind my cut.
This means that I need to go back and recut the metal to separate it.

I have my acetylene set at around 7psi and my O2 at about 20 psi.

I light the acetylene and reduce the flame until itbs just starting to
quiet down then add the O2 until the blue flames are just tips.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.




Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From carl.r.lindahl at gmail.com  Wed May 28 12:14:57 2008
From: carl.r.lindahl at gmail.com (Carl Lindahl)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:14:57 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] oxy-acetylene cutting
In-Reply-To: <OF2F7CC30E.3DEFAC9D-ON85257457.006360ED-85257457.006360F0@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF2F7CC30E.3DEFAC9D-ON85257457.006360ED-85257457.006360F0@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <bd8f7d710805281114n10b66ff0n5145707af16cc59e@mail.gmail.com>

More Oxygen - it should blow it out the bottom, I usually run 40 PSI on the
oxygen.


Carl


On 5/28/08, eric at megageek.com <eric at megageek.com> wrote:
>
> Quick question about oxy-acetylene cutting.
>
> When I cut with my torch, the molten metal b reconnectsb  behind my cut.
> This means that I need to go back and recut the metal to separate it.
>
> I have my acetylene set at around 7psi and my O2 at about 20 psi.
>
> I light the acetylene and reduce the flame until itb s just starting to
> quiet down then add the O2 until the blue flames are just tips.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> Moose
>
> "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
>     Tori Amos
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> You are subscribed as carl.r.lindahl at gmail.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
> http://www.team.net/archive

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Wed May 28 12:27:46 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:27:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] oxy-acetylene cutting
In-Reply-To: <OF2F7CC30E.3DEFAC9D-ON85257457.006360ED-85257457.006360F0@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF2F7CC30E.3DEFAC9D-ON85257457.006360ED-85257457.006360F0@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805281127r619f8467v769c91ce58b5bdd6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:05 PM,  <eric at megageek.com> wrote:
> Quick question about oxy-acetylene cutting.
>
> When I cut with my torch, the molten metal b reconnectsb  behind my cut.
> This means that I need to go back and recut the metal to separate it.
>
> I have my acetylene set at around 7psi and my O2 at about 20 psi.

I use more like 3-5 PSI acetylene, and about 20 psi oxygen.  It sounds
like you've got too much heat into the work.


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Wed May 28 12:33:34 2008
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:33:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] oxy-acetylene cutting
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40805281127r619f8467v769c91ce58b5bdd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <OF2F7CC30E.3DEFAC9D-ON85257457.006360ED-85257457.006360F0@mail.megageek.com>
	<2400a5d40805281127r619f8467v769c91ce58b5bdd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0805281432250.9914@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Wed, 28 May 2008, David Scheidt wrote:
>> Quick question about oxy-acetylene cutting.
>>
>> When I cut with my torch, the molten metal b reconnectsb  behind my cut.
>> This means that I need to go back and recut the metal to separate it.
>>
>> I have my acetylene set at around 7psi and my O2 at about 20 psi.
>
> I use more like 3-5 PSI acetylene, and about 20 psi oxygen.  It sounds
> like you've got too much heat into the work.

or you're not going fast enough, not that I'm any particular expert.

Mark

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Wed May 28 13:07:29 2008
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 15:07:29 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] oxy-acetylene cutting
In-Reply-To: <OF2F7CC30E.3DEFAC9D-ON85257457.006360ED-85257457.006360F0@
	mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20080528150729.00a66f90@pop.east.cox.net>

At 02:05 PM 5/28/2008 -0400, eric at megageek.com wrote:

>Quick question about oxy-acetylene cutting.
>When I cut with my torch, the molten metal breconnectsb behind my cut.
>This means that I need to go back and recut the metal to separate it.
>...

>I light the acetylene and reduce the flame until itbs just starting to
>quiet down then add the O2 until the blue flames are just tips.

>What am I doing wrong?

Moose,

Are you are using a cutting tourch, or trying to cut with a welding
tourch?  Usually when you pull the trigger on the cutting tourch,
it adds a lot more oxygen and blows the molten metal off the
piece being cut.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From nogera at worldnet.att.net  Wed May 28 13:22:18 2008
From: nogera at worldnet.att.net (Bob Nogueira)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:22:18 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <494312.40187.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000101c8c0f8$2666c1b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>

Okay went out this morning for coffee and stopped in a few places and looked
at pressure washers. Found a couple of good deals at Northern tool and at
Lowes (Troy Built) . Both the same pressure and accessories. Differences are
Honda engine vs a Briggs and Stratton and ceramic piston vs Stainless steel
piston. I know the Honda engine is good but I have also had good luck with
Briggs & Stratton the last few years so that's pretty much a wash. Now which
would be better, ceramic pump piston or stainless steel piston.

Bob Nogueira   ( Ain't Retirement Great!!!)

From whesr at iglou.com  Wed May 28 13:46:55 2008
From: whesr at iglou.com (Bill Engle Sr)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 15:46:55 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] TVR
Message-ID: <E1K1RlX-0001px-5K@iglou.com>

   Sort  of  off  topic.   Anyone  know  of a TVR for sale?  1960's early
   1970's 4 or 6 cylinder.

   Bill Engle, Sr.
   All mail scanned by Symantec Antivirus

From mark at nashvilletn.org  Wed May 28 14:51:40 2008
From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 15:51:40 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
References: <000101c8c0f8$2666c1b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <034001c8c104$a187ca40$8500a8c0@CT>

Bob,

I bought a Northern with a 5 HP Honda Engine and Ceramic pistons about 12
years ago.  I replaced the pump seals and one cracked piston at about 5 years
and then replaced the pump a couple years ago.  It uses a "General" pump and
has seen a lot of use.  Pressure is good but so is volume.  I have seen higher
pressure units that blow the dirt farther but don't do any more work.  I think
mine is about 2200 PSI.  Prices have generally come down since I bought mine
but I think it was about $500 in 95.  I use it all of the time and have run it
10 hours a day cleaning the driveway.  I haul it to the boat a few times a
year and clean up nasty old chassis rails every now and then.  I do use it to
wash cars but am careful to keep my distance from the paint, it think it could
blow it off.

Mark
Nashville
http://www.ArrestMeRed.com

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bob Nogueira
  To: Shop Talk
  Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 2:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers


  Okay went out this morning for coffee and stopped in a few places and
looked
  at pressure washers. Found a couple of good deals at Northern tool and at
  Lowes (Troy Built) . Both the same pressure and accessories. Differences
are
  Honda engine vs a Briggs and Stratton and ceramic piston vs Stainless steel
  piston. I know the Honda engine is good but I have also had good luck with
  Briggs & Stratton the last few years so that's pretty much a wash. Now
which
  would be better, ceramic pump piston or stainless steel piston.

  Bob Nogueira   ( Ain't Retirement Great!!!)
  _______________________________________________

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Wed May 28 14:58:15 2008
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 15:58:15 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
References: <000101c8c0f8$2666c1b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
	<034001c8c104$a187ca40$8500a8c0@CT>
Message-ID: <03519BEB5AD64C529A61B50A59C5A0C3@KARL>

> I do use it to
> wash cars but am careful to keep my distance from the paint, it think it 
> could
> blow it off.
>
> Mark


That's just what I've been thinking about with my new TR4.  It was painted 
25 years ago and then stored, and the prep work was bad - the paint is now 
peeling right down to bare steel.  A pressure washer would be a real 
timesaver if it was easy enough to clean up after it. 

From herby at herbytoys.com  Wed May 28 19:23:40 2008
From: herby at herbytoys.com (Herby)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 18:23:40 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] TVR
In-Reply-To: <E1K1RlX-0001px-5K@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <001701c8c12a$a1f6c370$6501a8c0@HERBYZ>

If you haven't already try Hayes Harris at www.wirewheel.com he always has
TVR's for sale.

Herby
63 MKII Sprite (Herbytoy - patiently waiting)
62 MKII Sprite (the "resto-mod" driver)
00 Dakota R/T (the new toy)
herby at herbytoys.com
www.herbytoys.com


   Sort  of  off  topic.   Anyone  know  of a TVR for sale?  1960's early
   1970's 4 or 6 cylinder.

   Bill Engle, Sr.
   All mail scanned by Symantec Antivirus

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.2/1471 - Release Date: 5/28/2008
5:33 PM

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Wed May 28 21:00:43 2008
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:00:43 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <20080528131002.GA63095@sackheads.org>
References: <001601c8c025$8bf807b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
	<20080528131002.GA63095@sackheads.org>
Message-ID: <0K1M00CWJ0GU1TW0@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>

At 06:10 AM  5/28/2008, Jimmie Mayfield wrote:
>When the adjustable nozzle is set to the widest fan pattern, the edges of the
>spray are still fairly intense and can gouge wood if the wand is 
>held too close.
>Does anybody else's fan pattern have this defect?
>
>Second, the pump is designed so that the detergent injector works only at
>the low pressure setting.

Since we're talking about pressure washers....

I have used a number of rental pressure washers, mostly big Honda 
3500 PSI units, for cleaning my deck, prepping the house for 
painting, and so on.  They work well and are capable of SERIOUS 
damage if you're not careful.  None of them had a "low pressure" 
setting, or detergent injection.  With 3500 PSI, we don't need no 
stinkin' detergent....

I have a couple of tractors, both with buckets and one with a 
backhoe.  We also have a riding mower and other odds and ends.   (My 
Cylinder Index is out of control).  My question is can you safely use 
a pressure washer for cleaning heavy equipment without destroying the 
finish, seals, etc?  I know you're not supposed to point a 3500 PSI 
narrow tip at your wheel bearings, but the idea of "low pressure" and 
"detergent injection" is interesting.

Thanks
Dave C   

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Wed May 28 21:09:13 2008
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:09:13 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] oxy-acetylene cutting
Message-ID: <0K1M00J1Q0V0TSPG@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

First, what size tip are you using?  How thick is the metal?  It 
sounds like you are probably using a "normal" OO size tip (or so), 
and your pressures sound spot on.

We had exactly the same problem with the cutting rig in my school 
shop when I took over.  The problem was a dirty/messed up tip.  The 
holes in the tip are very small and precise and if the cutting gas 
swirl pattern isn't just right, it won't cut right.  It'll plug up 
the cut with slag like you're getting, and it will also make a nasty 
looking kerf.

The first thing I would do is get a set of tip cleaners and clean the 
tip and try again.  If you are still having the same problem, get a 
new cutting tip from a welding shop (not the Borg), and ask the sales 
guy if they have a sample cutting/welding table setup, and  have him 
critique your technique and maybe offer some pointers.  New cutting 
tips are cheap, and I'll bet that's your problem.  Make sure you're 
not getting too close to the work with your tip; if you overheat and 
get popping it can contaminate your tip.  Also never bang on anything 
with the tip.

Dave C


At 11:05 AM  5/28/2008, you wrote:
>Quick question about oxy-acetylene cutting.
>
>When I cut with my torch, the molten metal breconnectsbbehind my cut.
>This means that I need to go back and recut the metal to separate it.
>
>I have my acetylene set at around 7psi and my O2 at about 20 psi.
>
>I light the acetylene and reduce the flame until itbs just starting to
>quiet down then add the O2 until the blue flames are just tips.
>
>What am I doing wrong?
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>Moose
>
>"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
>      Tori Amos
>_______________________________________________
>Support Team.Net  http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
>You are subscribed as cavanadd at verizon.net
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>http://www.team.net/archive

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed May 28 21:43:58 2008
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:43:58 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <0K1M00CWJ0GU1TW0@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <20080529034358.DAXP25439.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@randall>

> My question is can you 
> safely use a pressure washer for cleaning heavy equipment 
> without destroying the finish, seals, etc?

Just like any good tool, it takes a bit of care to not damage things.  But
yes, it's quite doable.  The trick is to get a fan-type nozzle and not get
it too close to anything that is fragile.  Painted surfaces are safe to just
a few inches, likely you should stay a foot or more away from seals, etc.
Just like those "do it yourself" car washes.

Randall

From mbarre at juno.com  Thu May 29 09:44:52 2008
From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:44:52 GMT
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical question
Message-ID: <20080529.114452.24702.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>

I am wiring a bathroom for my shop and am installing a tankless water heater
that uses 55A.  I already have a 60 amp type QP breaker and a buddy suggested
that I may want to consider a GFCI breaker.  It really hadn't occurred to me
but since it is basically pumping heat right into the water, maybe a GFI or
even an AFI would be the way to go.  BIg cost difference, but safety is
important.  Would there be a failure mode that a FI breaker would be better
than a standard breaker?
I would appreciate your thoughts!
Matt in GA
____________________________________________________________
Click here to save cash and find low rates on auto loans.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3ndyHnqmsp5g1D4NuN2mKhgRyWi
XnCUqmB8yStXbGcDkqmGa/

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Thu May 29 15:39:25 2008
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 17:39:25 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] electrical question
In-Reply-To: <20080529.114452.24702.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20080529.114452.24702.0@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <483F228D.9080609@comcast.net>

My thought - as long as the water pipe is reasonably well grounded, you should 
have no need for a GFI or AFI.  Plastic pipe doesn't count.

Donald.

Matt wrote:
> I am wiring a bathroom for my shop and am installing a tankless water heater
> that uses 55A.  I already have a 60 amp type QP breaker and a buddy suggested
> that I may want to consider a GFCI breaker.  It really hadn't occurred to me
> but since it is basically pumping heat right into the water, maybe a GFI or
> even an AFI would be the way to go.  BIg cost difference, but safety is
> important.  Would there be a failure mode that a FI breaker would be better
> than a standard breaker?
> I would appreciate your thoughts!
> Matt in GA

From jibjib at att.net  Thu May 29 22:53:29 2008
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 21:53:29 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] TVR
In-Reply-To: <E1K1RlX-0001px-5K@iglou.com>
References: <E1K1RlX-0001px-5K@iglou.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c8c211$1b61b580$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

A bit too late.  A nice looking 2500M just sold for about $10k here in
Seattle on eBay.  

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill
Engle Sr
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:47 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] TVR

   Sort  of  off  topic.   Anyone  know  of a TVR for sale?  1960's early
   1970's 4 or 6 cylinder.

   Bill Engle, Sr.
   All mail scanned by Symantec Antivirus
You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net

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http://www.team.net/archive

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Fri May 30 12:43:41 2008
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 13:43:41 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] suspending
Message-ID: <A99828DF67D241099F3FE44FCABEA6D6@OwnerPC>

I've searched the team.net site and can't find it... isn't there a way to
suspend your mail like for vacation... I'm going to be out of computer use for
about 10 days and if a juicy subject comes up my mail server will spew on
me....

help ??

thanks
john


I like long walks,  especially when they are taken  by people who annoy me.

From cak at dimebank.com  Fri May 30 13:03:14 2008
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 12:03:14 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suspending
In-Reply-To: <A99828DF67D241099F3FE44FCABEA6D6@OwnerPC>
References: <A99828DF67D241099F3FE44FCABEA6D6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <48404F72.80609@dimebank.com>

Go to the mailman link that's at the bottom of this (and every) 
shop-talk message.

Towards the bottom of the page, enter your email address and click on 
"unsubscribe or edit options"

Supply your password as requested.

Find the option "Mail delivery", check disabled, decide if you want that 
to be "set globally" for all Team.Net lists (at least, all the mailman 
ones).

Click on "submit my changes"

Best,
chris

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Fri May 30 13:15:29 2008
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 15:15:29 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] suspending
In-Reply-To: <A99828DF67D241099F3FE44FCABEA6D6@OwnerPC>
References: <A99828DF67D241099F3FE44FCABEA6D6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40805301215t61d72017k2ec618c3085d0a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:43 PM, john niolon <jniolon at bham.rr.com> wrote:
> I've searched the team.net site and can't find it... isn't there a way to
> suspend your mail like for vacation... I'm going to be out of computer use for
> about 10 days and if a juicy subject comes up my mail server will spew on
> me....

Click the list-info link that's in the footer of every message to the
list.  AT the bottom, there's a button labeled "unsubscribe or edit
options".  Click that, provide your email address and list password,
and you'll get a page of list options, one of whcih is mail delivery.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From hal at katemuir.com  Fri May 30 13:17:22 2008
From: hal at katemuir.com (Hal Faulkner)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 12:17:22 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] suspending
In-Reply-To: <A99828DF67D241099F3FE44FCABEA6D6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <HJECLIGCCJIHGFIGICMFKEFMHDAA.hal@katemuir.com>

John,
Did you try clicking on the links at the bottom of every posting that you
get from the list?

Hal

From jibjib at att.net  Fri May 30 17:59:03 2008
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:59:03 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers
In-Reply-To: <034001c8c104$a187ca40$8500a8c0@CT>
References: <000101c8c0f8$2666c1b0$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
	<034001c8c104$a187ca40$8500a8c0@CT>
Message-ID: <009b01c8c2b1$23c40cf0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

We talk about pressures a lot, but what is a reasonable GPM for mostly
around the house stuff?

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 1:52 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers

Bob,

I bought a Northern with a 5 HP Honda Engine and Ceramic pistons about 12
years ago.  I replaced the pump seals and one cracked piston at about 5
years and then replaced the pump a couple years ago.  It uses a "General"
pump and has seen a lot of use.  Pressure is good but so is volume.  I have
seen higher pressure units that blow the dirt farther but don't do any more
work.  I think mine is about 2200 PSI.  Prices have generally come down
since I bought mine but I think it was about $500 in 95.  I use it all of
the time and have run it 10 hours a day cleaning the driveway.  I haul it to
the boat a few times a year and clean up nasty old chassis rails every now
and then.  I do use it to wash cars but am careful to keep my distance from
the paint, it think it could blow it off.

Mark
Nashville
http://www.ArrestMeRed.com

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bob Nogueira
  To: Shop Talk
  Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 2:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Pressure washers


  Okay went out this morning for coffee and stopped in a few places and
looked
  at pressure washers. Found a couple of good deals at Northern tool and at
  Lowes (Troy Built) . Both the same pressure and accessories. Differences
are
  Honda engine vs a Briggs and Stratton and ceramic piston vs Stainless
steel
  piston. I know the Honda engine is good but I have also had good luck with
  Briggs & Stratton the last few years so that's pretty much a wash. Now
which
  would be better, ceramic pump piston or stainless steel piston.

  Bob Nogueira   ( Ain't Retirement Great!!!)
  _______________________________________________
You are subscribed as jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

http://www.team.net/archive

From aztvr at yahoo.com  Sat May 31 09:27:24 2008
From: aztvr at yahoo.com (Jim S.)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 08:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] TVR
In-Reply-To: <001b01c8c211$1b61b580$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <350755.70339.qm@web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I replied direct to your&nbsp;email address; but, if not received, contact me.&nbsp; I know of a '71 Vixen 2500 that was posted &nbsp;for sale a couple of months ago.
&nbsp;
Jim S.



-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill
Engle Sr
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 12:47 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] TVR

&nbsp;&nbsp; Sort&nbsp; of&nbsp; off&nbsp; topic.&nbsp;&nbsp; Anyone&nbsp; know&nbsp; of a TVR for sale?&nbsp; 1960's early
&nbsp;&nbsp; 1970's 4 or 6 cylinder.

&nbsp;&nbsp; Bill Engle, Sr.
&nbsp;&nbsp; All mail scanned by Symantec Antivirus
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