From mmeany at ne.rr.com  Sat Sep  1 03:41:14 2007
From: mmeany at ne.rr.com (Mark Meany)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 05:41:14 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Off Topic? Any video gurus out there?
References: <20070831.211847.21961.0@webmail36.lax.untd.com>
Message-ID: <00c001c7ec7c$3d05d240$6601a8c0@meansterq9coh8>

Matt,

By 'best', I would be looking for resolution & color/contrast rendition; the 
least degradation from the original picture. That LG DN798 I referred to can 
read .jpegs that I've burned onto a CD. I'd be showing my pictures on a 
conventional 'roll 'em up screen'.

To all, I'll be taking off for the weekend & won't be back until 9/4 so if 
any of you answer & I don't respond, it's 'cause I'm away...

Thanks,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Matt
To: mmeany at ne.rr.com
Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Off Topic? Any video gurus out there?


Kind of need to know what you mean by best.  Are you looking to maximize 
quality of image, fit as many pix as possible on a DVD, or speed of play? 
Sounds like it will largely depend on what your player will show for you. 
Older players may not even have a still picture capability.  Many newer ones 
can convert a wide range of formats.  A lot of flat screen TVs now simply 
have USB ports into which you plug a jump drive for immediate slide shows... 
Won't be long before the projectors have that as well.

MB

-- "Mark Meany" <mmeany at ne.rr.com> wrote:
Can anyone suggest what is the optimal format for viewing .jpegs off a DVD
player which is being fed into a video projector? I'm trying to emulate what
I do with my 35mm slides & slide projector but doing so, now, with my
digital camera images. What I've been able to come up with is a 1080p
Upconvert DVD player with an HDMI output (an LG DN798) fed into an HDMI
capable Mitsubishi HC1500 projector. I don't have the smarts to know whether
this is overkill or not; I'm just relying on what I've about HDMI vs. the
analog component & S video interfaces. I'm also trying to avoid buying a
laptop as the feed source, if I can, to save $$. The set up I just mentioned
is < $1100.

Thanks in advance...

Mark Meany
Keene, NH
'65 TR4A IRS O
_______________________________________________
mbarre at juno.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From coles at colesnurseries.com  Sat Sep  1 11:15:11 2007
From: coles at colesnurseries.com (Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc))
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:15:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] fluorescent lights and coils
Message-ID: <002e01c7ecbb$a7712c80$0201000a@Fest>

Guys:
I have two questions:
First, I am having trouble with my shop fluorescent lights.  There not very
old(3-4yrs old) - both the thinner T 8 and the thicker ones.  It's not the
bulb.  Is there anyway to test the ballast ? I would think this is the only
other thing it could be ?
Next, is there anyway to check a coil for starting an older car.  I have a few
lying around and would like to see if there're worth keeping.
Thanks,
Dan

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Sat Sep  1 11:16:45 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:16:45 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] RTV Silicone
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901101325.033306a0@incoming.verizon.net>

I have an older (well, maybe only 15 or so years old, so maybe not that 
old) steel Thermos with a flip top spout built into the cap.  The cap 
gasket (assuming there actually is a gasket) leaks.  I was thinking about 
squirting a bead of RTV silicone in the gasket area and letting it set up 
to stop the leak but I seem to recall that RTV may have toxic additives to 
keep mold and mildew from growing on it.

What does the list think?

thanks,

Dave C

From strovato at optonline.net  Sat Sep  1 11:35:36 2007
From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:35:36 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] RTV Silicone
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901101325.033306a0@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901101325.033306a0@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <0JNP002XXA88SS50@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>

Interesting how the meaning of "old" changes as we get older.  They 
make an RTV for building/resealing an aquarium.  I would imagine that 
it would have to be free of toxic stuff so as not to poison the 
fish.  They do make a point of telling aquarists not to use "regular" 
RTV, only the aquarium stuff.  I'm not quite sure what the best 
solution for your Thermos is, but that might be a source of safer 
RTV.  And of course you have to decide how much trouble a 15 year old 
thermos is worth.

-Steve

From BSHolden at aol.com  Sat Sep  1 12:17:57 2007
From: BSHolden at aol.com (BSHolden at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:17:57 EDT
Subject: [Shop-talk] RTV Silicone
Message-ID: <c4e.1cd56a5d.340b06d5@aol.com>

Food grade RTV at
_http://www.cidsales.com/silicones.htm_ 
(http://www.cidsales.com/silicones.htm) 
 
  My local Menards also stocks the USDA/FDA approved stuff, so you too  
should be able to find this at a building supply store close-by.
 
Bart



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Sat Sep  1 13:22:49 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 12:22:49 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] RTV Silicone
In-Reply-To: <0JNP002XXA88SS50@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901101325.033306a0@incoming.verizon.net>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20070901101325.033306a0@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901122026.01539650@incoming.verizon.net>

At 01:35 PM  9/1/2007  -0400, Steven Trovato wrote:
>Interesting how the meaning of "old" changes as we get older.

** Yeah, it's practically brand new.  It's my "truck" thremos so it gets 
knocked around a bit.

>They make an RTV for building/resealing an aquarium.  I would imagine that 
>it would have to be free of toxic stuff so as not to poison the 
>fish.  They do make a point of telling aquarists not to use "regular" RTV, 
>only the aquarium stuff.

** I thought I remembered seeing something like that.  Thanks.  I'll look 
for it.

>  I'm not quite sure what the best solution for your Thermos is, but that 
> might be a source of safer RTV.  And of course you have to decide how 
> much trouble a 15 year old thermos is worth.

** What?  Throw away a practically brand new thermos?

Thanks
DC

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sat Sep  1 13:41:59 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:41:59 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] RTV Silicone
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901122026.01539650@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901101325.033306a0@incoming.verizon.net>
	<0JNP002XXA88SS50@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20070901122026.01539650@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709011241o3656f67fy7f546603b3b0241e@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/1/07, David C. <cavanadd at verizon.net> wrote:

>
> ** What? Throw away a practically brand new thermos?
>

I've got a number of all-stainless steel vacuum flasks.  They're
amazingly more efficient at keeping things hot than my old glass-lined
Thermos.   If I preheat it with boiling water, I've got a half-litre
flask that will keep coffee above 120F for two days.
-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com  Sun Sep  2 10:52:09 2007
From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:52:09 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] fluorescent lights and coils
In-Reply-To: <002e01c7ecbb$a7712c80$0201000a@Fest>
References: <002e01c7ecbb$a7712c80$0201000a@Fest>
Message-ID: <46DAEA39.1040209@hornesystemstx.com>

Dan,

I've had problems with T8 fixtures starting when they were only about a 
year old. These fixtures are the 3 tube, 4' drop in fixtures. The 
ballasts are made by Sylvania and have been nothing but junk. I've 
replaced about 3 ballasts a month with GE ballasts, which have worked 
fine ever since. The installation has close to 100 fixtures in it and by 
now  all but a few of the Sylvania ballasts have gone bad. I found it 
really strange that the lamps outlast the ballasts! So far I have had to 
replace only a hand full of tubes. Multiple Emails to Sylvania have gone 
unanswered.

There is not an easy way that I know of to test the ballast other than 
trying a new ballast in the fixture.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Dan and Jenny Fest (Coles Nurseries Inc):
> Guys:
> I have two questions:
> First, I am having trouble with my shop fluorescent lights.  There not very
> old(3-4yrs old) - both the thinner T 8 and the thicker ones.  It's not the
> bulb.  Is there anyway to test the ballast ? I would think this is the only
> other thing it could be ?
> Next, is there anyway to check a coil for starting an older car.  I have a few
> lying around and would like to see if there're worth keeping.
> Thanks,
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> roadsters at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>
>   


-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun Sep  2 13:15:10 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 12:15:10 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] fluorescent lights and coils
In-Reply-To: <46DAEA39.1040209@hornesystemstx.com>
Message-ID: <20070902191430.EOBA16499.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>

> The ballasts are made by Sylvania and have been 
> nothing but junk.

Some years ago, I worked for a company that was owned by the same people
that own Sylvania.  Our maintenance department had always used GE bulbs &
ballasts; and claimed their failure rate went up dramatically when they were
ordered to start using Sylvania components.  I've had much the same
experience at home, even Feit seems to outlast Sylvania.

Randall

From cornerexit at gmail.com  Sun Sep  2 16:49:45 2007
From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 15:49:45 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Design layout software for developing property
Message-ID: <032301c7edb3$8f4d86a0$0401a8c0@Waynehouseputer>

I have some undeveloped property that I need to layout the various entities
- house location and position, shop and other AG building location and
positions, driveway, water, power, septic, landscaping etc.

 

I am not very good at visualizing this kind of thing by just standing there
and gazing out onto the acreage. Ideally I'd like to take one of the aerial
photos of the place and put it into some sort of drawing program so I can
start laying things out and get an idea of some options.

 

I realize that somewhere in the process I will need to get some professional
plans drawn up for some of the things, but all I'm looking for now is
something to help me visualize some of the property layout options.

 

Thanks

Wayne 

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sun Sep  2 17:12:37 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 16:12:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <15C2B55292D4494EAAB4557F5BCEC0D20130708A@bnaexg01.cci-ir.com>
Message-ID: <226544.9338.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I found a suitable flexible hose at Home Depot for a
lot less than the one TIP sells.  It is meant for
connecting the hot/cold water lines to a water heater.
 It was braided SS, plenty big and strong.

Doug


--- Gil Fuqua <gil.fuqua at cci-ir.com> wrote:

> You can install a similar piping layout to the one
> suggested by TIP with
> parts from the plumbing section of Home Depot or
> Lowes.  About the only
> item you can't find is the flexible line that
> connects the compressor to
> the hard pipe.

From mikey at b2systems.com  Sun Sep  2 17:17:33 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:17:33 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <226544.9338.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <15C2B55292D4494EAAB4557F5BCEC0D20130708A@bnaexg01.cci-ir.com>
	<226544.9338.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070902161517.0537c968@b2systems.com>

   Hopefully the money you saved won't be spent on medical bills...

   I am not saying its not safe because I have no idea if that is 
where TP tools gets their stuff or if it is made specially for 
compressors, but when it comes to safety I err on the safe side and 
buy it from a vendor that says it is safe for the purpose I am using 
it for.  If that line blows you can bet Home Depot will not help out 
on your medical bills.

         mike

At 04:12 PM 9/2/2007, Doug Braun wrote:
>I found a suitable flexible hose at Home Depot for a
>lot less than the one TIP sells.  It is meant for
>connecting the hot/cold water lines to a water heater.
>  It was braided SS, plenty big and strong.
>
>Doug
>
>
>--- Gil Fuqua <gil.fuqua at cci-ir.com> wrote:
>
> > You can install a similar piping layout to the one
> > suggested by TIP with
> > parts from the plumbing section of Home Depot or
> > Lowes.  About the only
> > item you can't find is the flexible line that
> > connects the compressor to
> > the hard pipe.
>_______________________________________________
>mikey at b2systems.com
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net  Sun Sep  2 17:25:23 2007
From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:25:23 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
References: <226544.9338.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003501c7edb8$89bd5300$1b127247@fred8kwiskhcfu>

>I found a suitable flexible hose at Home Depot for a
> lot less than the one TIP sells.
======================================================================================================
Doug, not sure how often you use your compressor or at what pressure you 
might take it up too, but this is a area where "price" should never come 
into the project, if you have ever been around when a air line blew you'll 
understand better  "FT" 

From shiples at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 18:24:20 2007
From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:24:20 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <003501c7edb8$89bd5300$1b127247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
References: <226544.9338.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070902170941.023a0800@mail.comcast.net>

At 07:25 PM 9/2/2007 -0400, FRED E THOMAS wrote:
> >I found a suitable flexible hose at Home Depot for a
> > lot less than the one TIP sells.
>======================================================================================================
>Doug, not sure how often you use your compressor or at what pressure you
>might take it up too, but this is a area where "price" should never come
>into the project, if you have ever been around when a air line blew you'll
>understand better  "FT"

Did I miss something here?  We're talking rubber with steel braid?
Maybe 3 feet long?

It'll make a loud "Pssst" noise and wiggle around a bit won't it?
Then it'll stop wiggling and go "whoosh" until you turn it off?

I've never seen a hard line break but we'd occasionally drop something
hot and/or heavy on those 1? inch hoses when I was a helper back in
the pipeline days and it's like a fighter with a pretty good punch and a
30 foot reach but no control.  You might get hit but probably not.

About as scary as a grease pit half full of carbon monoxide.

From mikey at b2systems.com  Sun Sep  2 18:41:09 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 17:41:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20070902170941.023a0800@mail.comcast.net>
References: <226544.9338.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070902170941.023a0800@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070902173452.055606e8@b2systems.com>

   Yup and people drive hundreds of thousands of miles with no 
accident then they are dead in one minor accident.

   People drive (I am guessing) 180,000miles on their motorcycle with 
no accident then Soccer Mom runs a frigging stop and broadsides you 
(But I am not dead)

   You saw air line hoses flap around and did not get hit lets say 
lots of times, do you want that smacking you in the back of the head 
or your yahoos belows the belt, might not kill you but it sure will 
make you wonder if that extra few dollars would have been worth 
it.  Then again, it might kill you, you never can tell the strength 
of those hoses and where they hit you.

  In the case of those hoses,  its almost guaranteed they will just 
hiss away until you shut off the compressor, I bet you have a better 
chance of winning the lottery then getting hurt by one, but that 
stainless wrapping will hurt quite a bit when it becomes a chunk of 
shrapnel.  Sometimes safety has no price.

         mike

>Did I miss something here?  We're talking rubber with steel braid?
>Maybe 3 feet long?
>
>It'll make a loud "Pssst" noise and wiggle around a bit won't it?
>Then it'll stop wiggling and go "whoosh" until you turn it off?
>
>I've never seen a hard line break but we'd occasionally drop something
>hot and/or heavy on those 1? inch hoses when I was a helper back in
>the pipeline days and it's like a fighter with a pretty good punch and a
>30 foot reach but no control.  You might get hit but probably not.
>
>About as scary as a grease pit half full of carbon monoxide.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sun Sep  2 19:56:25 2007
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 01:56:25 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
Message-ID: <090320070156.156.46DB69C9000AC16B0000009C220702065304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "FRED E THOMAS" <frede.thomas2 at verizon.net>

> Doug, not sure how often you use your compressor or at what pressure you 
> might take it up too, but this is a area where "price" should never come 
> into the project, if you have ever been around when a air line blew you'll 
> understand better  "FT" 


You know, I hear that all the time.  I was about 10 feet from a pvc air line when it blew once.  made a big pop, and that was it.  no shrapnel to speak of.  my co-worker was about three feet from it, nothing on him.

now, yeah, I wouldn't plan to do it, and my lines will all be cast iron when I do the new garage, and yeah, I'll be spending the extra to eliminate any chance of issues...but I'm like that.  It's probably more likely he'd be struck by lightning--twice--than be hurt by the air hose.

From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net  Sun Sep  2 19:59:22 2007
From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:59:22 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
References: <226544.9338.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20070902170941.023a0800@mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <005101c7edce$0c90f1a0$1b127247@fred8kwiskhcfu>

 You might get hit but probably not.
>
> About as scary as a grease pit half full of carbon monoxide.
=========================================================================================================
But probably it can hit you just once and probably you are seriously hurt, 
yep I have a 7' deep grease pit also and would never think of running a 
motor without the door open and the exhauset hose connected "NEVER", just 
maybe, just maybe that one time might be the wrong time, but that's just 
maybe, why take unsafe chances when a little caution is the right way to do 
it, there will never be a short cut for safety, not a probably or maybe. 
"FT" 

From bobkegel at seanet.com  Sun Sep  2 20:12:19 2007
From: bobkegel at seanet.com (Bob Kegel)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:12:19 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Design layout software for developing property
In-Reply-To: <032301c7edb3$8f4d86a0$0401a8c0@Waynehouseputer>
Message-ID: <000201c7edcf$deaf92d0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01>

Looks like one can draw objects with Google Sketchup and drop them on to the
aerial photos in Google Earth. See
http://sketchup.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=36241&topic=9057 .

Bob Kegel
Aberdeen, WA

From doug at dougbraun.com  Sun Sep  2 21:21:41 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <090320070156.156.46DB69C9000AC16B0000009C220702065304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <553913.70528.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My rationale for trusting the hose was this:

It was designed to carry hot water, and domestic
water pressure is often as high as 90 psi, with
much higher transient pressures possible due to
water hammer.

If anything blows out in my air piping, I am sure
it will be the plastic bowl of my regulator's water
separator, not the flex hose!


BTW, here is the spec sheet for the hose I used:

http://www.watts.com/pdf/ES-CWH-S.pdf

Doug

--- scott.hall at comcast.net wrote:

>  -------------- Original message
> ----------------------
> From: "FRED E THOMAS" <frede.thomas2 at verizon.net>
> 
> > Doug, not sure how often you use your compressor
> or at what pressure you 
> > might take it up too, but this is a area where
> "price" should never come 
> > into the project, if you have ever been around
> when a air line blew you'll 
> > understand better  "FT" 
> 
> 
> You know, I hear that all the time.  I was about 10
> feet from a pvc air line when it blew once.  made a
> big pop, and that was it.  no shrapnel to speak of. 
> my co-worker was about three feet from it, nothing
> on him.
> 
> now, yeah, I wouldn't plan to do it, and my lines
> will all be cast iron when I do the new garage, and
> yeah, I'll be spending the extra to eliminate any
> chance of issues...but I'm like that.  It's probably
> more likely he'd be struck by lightning--twice--than
> be hurt by the air hose.
> _______________________________________________
> doug at dougbraun.com
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Mon Sep  3 00:13:34 2007
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (paul.mele at usermail.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 00:13:34 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <553913.70528.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <090320070156.156.46DB69C9000AC16B0000009C220702065304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<553913.70528.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <32029.216.136.13.62.1188800014.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>

> My rationale for trusting the hose was this:
>
> It was designed to carry hot water,


Hi all..
forgive me for preaching....talk is cheap...so here goes my $0.02

I've been an ER MD over 25 years.  I've heard many reasons why "it should
not have happened" or how many times it was done the wrong way "without
problems before"...and I've made a good living at it.  I'm retiring in 2
weeks, but my partners are still there when you need them.  No guidelines/
rules/ regs are 100% applicable; just be sure you know how they got there
and what the consequences are when you push the limit or decide they don't
apply in  a given scenario.  Then, you won't wonder "what happened".

Paul Mele

From mikey at b2systems.com  Mon Sep  3 00:26:34 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 23:26:34 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <32029.216.136.13.62.1188800014.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>
References: <090320070156.156.46DB69C9000AC16B0000009C220702065304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<553913.70528.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<32029.216.136.13.62.1188800014.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070902232427.0584f518@b2systems.com>

>forgive me for preaching....talk is cheap...so here goes my $0.02
>
>I've been an ER MD over 25 years.  I've heard many reasons why "it should
>not have happened" or how many times it was done the wrong way "without
....snip....

  With your actual experience in the field of "oops" I think your 
sermon was worth way more than $0.02

  Made my points very much clearer than I made them.

         Mike

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Mon Sep  3 08:18:49 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 10:18:49 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070902232427.0584f518@b2systems.com>
References: <090320070156.156.46DB69C9000AC16B0000009C220702065304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<553913.70528.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<32029.216.136.13.62.1188800014.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070902232427.0584f518@b2systems.com>
Message-ID: <46DC17C9.5060304@xxiii.com>

Mike Rambour wrote:
>   With your actual experience in the field of "oops" I think your 
> sermon was worth way more than $0.02

HEY Y'ALL!!  WATCH THIS!!

		Mike!  Hold my beer.....




    -W  :)

From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net  Mon Sep  3 14:25:37 2007
From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:25:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Help ==Torque==1958 T/R 3A
Message-ID: <004e01c7ee68$9718c1a0$42147247@fred8kwiskhcfu>

List, I am in need of the correct torqueing value of the starter dog bolt on
the front pulley, this is for a T/R 3A, many thanks  "FT"

From tr6 at pipeline.com  Mon Sep  3 15:20:13 2007
From: tr6 at pipeline.com (Ronald Olds)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:20:13 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAGR0/UN+345Oi0ESU7rmM4wBAITr15KniR9MuVqf/6yjAv4AAAFImMEAABAAAACEwZpR5af6S4J1ECDgms3WAQAAAAA=@pipeline.com>

It is finally time to break down and buy new electric hedge trimmers.  It
seems like only yesterday when I bought them but my 18 year old son was not
born yet, how time flies.  Does anyone have any recommendations on a good
brand to buy?  My old ones are Black and Decker and they never did seem that
good. 

 

Ron Olds  

From watsonm05 at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 15:51:58 2007
From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:51:58 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAGR0/UN+345Oi0ESU7rmM4wBAITr15KniR9MuVqf/6yjAv4AAAFImMEAABAAAACEwZpR5af6S4J1ECDgms3WAQAAAAA=@pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c7ee74$a753c310$83be3847@watsongxpejt9r>

Hi there,

    Sorry to hear of your dislike of B&D trimmers.  I just had to go out to 
the shed and look and, yep, my 8 year old trimmer is a B&D HTD22, 22" Hedge 
Hog XB.  It's worked very well for me.  B&D claims that it is able to handle 
branches up to 3/4" in diameter and I'll agree with that rating as I used it 
for branches that big.  I think this thing would have no problem taking 
fingers off!  I really like the locking power switch since I seem to always 
be holding it with no hands on the switch.

    I'll admit that I did NO research before buying it.  I started trimming 
the bushes around the house (and there are a LOT of those &*&!$#@ things), 
got half way through the first bush, went to Home Depot and bought just 
about the first thing that fell into my hands.  I finished that bush a whole 
lot faster than I started it.  In fact, the biggest "problem" I have is 
cleaning up all the trimmings since it's so good at making lots of them. 
Now I put a blue tarp on the ground around the base of the bush and drop the 
trimmings onto it and then drag the whole thing to the back of the property 
to my sort-of compost pile.

    I thought about getting a gas powered unit so I wouldn't have to haul 
the power cord around the yard but the thought of yet another gas engine to 
maintain - yuk.  On the down-side clipping the extension cord in a moment of 
carelessness is irritating but I've only done that once (so far . . .).

    Hope this helps.

Mark Watson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ronald Olds" <tr6 at pipeline.com>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 5:20 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers


> It is finally time to break down and buy new electric hedge trimmers.  It
> seems like only yesterday when I bought them but my 18 year old son was 
> not
> born yet, how time flies.  Does anyone have any recommendations on a good
> brand to buy?  My old ones are Black and Decker and they never did seem 
> that
> good.
>
>
>
> Ron Olds
> _______________________________________________
> watsonm05 at comcast.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From shiples at comcast.net  Mon Sep  3 15:10:04 2007
From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:10:04 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <46DC17C9.5060304@xxiii.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070902232427.0584f518@b2systems.com>
	<090320070156.156.46DB69C9000AC16B0000009C220702065304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<553913.70528.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<32029.216.136.13.62.1188800014.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070902232427.0584f518@b2systems.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070903124153.023bcec0@mail.comcast.net>

My reply was meant to show how attitudes towards safety vary depend on the 
individual.
In the past, there was a discussion of whether a grease pit was a safety 
hazard or not.
I took the safety by the book side while others said it was not a problem.

This time I took the opposite side.  In Seattle unregulated water pressure 
at sea level
can be as high as 140 psi (I've been told).  That's 20 psi higher than my 
(wimpy)
compressor can produce.  Pressures are similar, no worries..

So let's get into the scary stuff.  Imagine that our compressor can 
actually generate
enough pressure to cause the water hose to fail.  If the fittings fail, the 
hose becomes
disconnected at one end and flops around until the pressure drops in the tank.

Or maybe the fittings hold and the hose material fails.  The rubber has to 
expand to
the point of failure so it either is forced through the gaps in the steel 
braid or individual
wires have to break so the rubber can expand.

No Mythbusters science proof here but I don't think that stainless braid will
become a chunk of shrapnel.  If you have something vital within the reach 
of this
2 foot? hose when it fails it'll be about as dangerous as a breaker bar 
slipping off a rusted
nut.

Well enough hiding away where it's safe, I'm going to mix some oxy/acetylene
together and make some sparks.  I'll opt for eye protection but being a 
risk taker,
I will wear a short sleeve shirt.  Hell, I'm not ever going to wear gloves.

Hope I make it back.

From frerichs at tconl.com  Mon Sep  3 16:35:34 2007
From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 17:35:34 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <000b01c7ee74$a753c310$83be3847@watsongxpejt9r>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAGR0/UN+345Oi0ESU7rmM4wBAITr15KniR9MuVqf/6yjAv4AAAFImMEAABAAAACEwZpR5af6S4J1ECDgms3WAQAAAAA=@pipeline.com>
	<000b01c7ee74$a753c310$83be3847@watsongxpejt9r>
Message-ID: <013d01c7ee7a$c09109e0$6701a8c0@proteus457>

I have to agree with Mark.  I also have an 8 year old Hedge Hog (same 22"
model) and that sucker really goes through the bushes.  My experience has
also been that it will do up to 3/4", though it has to knaw at branches that
size for a couple seconds.  I'm happy with it and it shows no signs of
dying.

Mike Frerichs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Watson
> 
> Hi there,
> 
>     Sorry to hear of your dislike of B&D trimmers.  I just had to go out
> to
> the shed and look and, yep, my 8 year old trimmer is a B&D HTD22, 22"
> Hedge
> Hog XB.  It's worked very well for me.  B&D claims that it is able to
> handle
> branches up to 3/4" in diameter and I'll agree with that rating as I used
> it
> for branches that big.  I think this thing would have no problem taking
> fingers off!  I really like the locking power switch since I seem to
> always
> be holding it with no hands on the switch.
> 
> Snip... <<

From jibjib at att.net  Mon Sep  3 22:03:10 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 21:03:10 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <013d01c7ee7a$c09109e0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAGR0/UN+345Oi0ESU7rmM4wBAITr15KniR9MuVqf/6yjAv4AAAFImMEAABAAAACEwZpR5af6S4J1ECDgms3WAQAAAAA=@pipeline.com><000b01c7ee74$a753c310$83be3847@watsongxpejt9r>
	<013d01c7ee7a$c09109e0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
Message-ID: <001c01c7eea8$82cd2f70$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Add one more satisfies HedgeHog owner.  I've also clipped the cord once.
Argggg!

I used to use my Dad's old clipper that attached to a standard electric
drill with a large hose type clamp.  Not so good. . . . . . 

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mike
Frerichs
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 3:36 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers

I have to agree with Mark.  I also have an 8 year old Hedge Hog (same 22"
model) and that sucker really goes through the bushes.  My experience has
also been that it will do up to 3/4", though it has to knaw at branches that
size for a couple seconds.  I'm happy with it and it shows no signs of
dying.

Mike Frerichs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Watson
> 
> Hi there,
> 
>     Sorry to hear of your dislike of B&D trimmers.  I just had to go 
> out to the shed and look and, yep, my 8 year old trimmer is a B&D 
> HTD22, 22"
> Hedge
> Hog XB.  It's worked very well for me.  B&D claims that it is able to 
> handle branches up to 3/4" in diameter and I'll agree with that rating 
> as I used it for branches that big.  I think this thing would have no 
> problem taking fingers off!  I really like the locking power switch 
> since I seem to always be holding it with no hands on the switch.
> 
> Snip... <<
_______________________________________________
jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From doug at dougbraun.com  Tue Sep  4 07:46:07 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 06:46:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAGR0/UN+345Oi0ESU7rmM4wBAITr15KniR9MuVqf/6yjAv4AAAFImMEAABAAAACEwZpR5af6S4J1ECDgms3WAQAAAAA=@pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <95349.36199.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Can you reach ALL the places you need to trim without
a ladder?  If not, consider getting a trimmer that has
some sort of extension pole.  My old house had a front
hedge that was about 7 feet high and 6 feet deep, and
trimming it was a monster pain with an ordinary hedge
trimmer.

I drove past it this morning and noticed that the new
owner had ripped it out and planted new,
reasonable-sized hedges.  "Great idea!", I said to
myself.


--- Ronald Olds <tr6 at pipeline.com> wrote:

> It is finally time to break down and buy new
> electric hedge trimmers.  It
> seems like only yesterday when I bought them but my
> 18 year old son was not
> born yet, how time flies.  Does anyone have any
> recommendations on a good
> brand to buy?  My old ones are Black and Decker and
> they never did seem that
> good. 
> 
>  
> 
> Ron Olds  
> _______________________________________________
> doug at dougbraun.com
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From eric at megageek.com  Tue Sep  4 07:49:51 2007
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 09:49:51 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers
Message-ID: <OF0DAC18F7.3A83DB5F-ON8525734C.004BF9E7-8525734C.004BF9EA@mail.megageek.com>

Here is what I did to get the best of both worlds (engine powered hedge
trimmer, withOUT adding an engine to service/maintain.)

If you have one of the "quick connect" style weed whackers, there is a
hedge trimmer attachment.  I think I paid $40 for mine.  It goes on the end
of my already maintained weed whacker motor (which is plenty strong) and
cuts away.

I found that I rarely need the hedge trimmer, but when I do, there is no
plug nearby.  This solves both problems.

FWI, I have a ton of other attachments for the weed whacker that reduce the
amount of motors I need.  blower, vaccuum, tree saw, etc.

Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From doug at dougbraun.com  Tue Sep  4 07:49:17 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 06:49:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electric Hedge Trimmers
In-Reply-To: <001c01c7eea8$82cd2f70$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <756013.98379.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If you are not using a GFI-equipped outlet, buy one of
those add-on units that plugs into a regular outlet.

If you are cheap and clever, maybe you could make one
by taking the GFI plug from a dead hair dryer and put
a receptacle on the cord.

Doug

--- Jack Brooks <jibjib at att.net> wrote:

> Add one more satisfies HedgeHog owner.  I've also
> clipped the cord once.
> Argggg!

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Tue Sep  4 09:14:51 2007
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:14:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping
In-Reply-To: <553913.70528.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <090320070156.156.46DB69C9000AC16B0000009C220702065304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>
	<553913.70528.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C79752BF9A@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

Doug Braun wrote:
>
> My rationale for trusting the hose was this:
>
> It was designed to <...> as high as 90 psi, with much
> higher transient pressures possible due to water hammer.
>
> <...>
>
> BTW, here is the spec sheet for the hose I used:


My only concern with the water heater hose would be is the
working pressure.  The spec sheet indicates the maximum
working pressure is 125 PSI.

I believe all of my air hoses are rated for at least
200 PSI for the cheap ones - more for my good hoses.
The burst pressure is at least three times that amount.


Tim Mullen

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Tue Sep  4 09:33:35 2007
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:33:35 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] RTV Silicone
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901101325.033306a0@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070901101325.033306a0@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C79752BFD4@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

David C. wrote:
>
> I have an older <...> steel Thermos with <...>  The cap gasket
> leaks.  I was thinking about <...> a bead of RTV silicone

I've repaired similar gaskets by inserting a thin O-ring
under the gasket.  Might be worth a try instead of a bean
of RTV - it's going to be difficult to get a uniform size
bead of that...

Tim Mullen

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Tue Sep  4 16:37:45 2007
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:37:45 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
Message-ID: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>

Hi, All.

Before the snow season, I'd like to get the tubeless tires on my snowblower to 
seal sufficiently that I don't have to air them up every time I want to use it.

The first thing I did was break the beads and clean all the mating surfaces.  No 
abrasives, just soap, water and a cotton rag, then air to push the beads back 
into position.  No joy.

So I opened things again and cleaned again but this time I applied rubber cement 
to the mating surfaces (as suggested by a local tire shop) and re-inflated the 
critters.  As well as I can determine, the air loss is undiminished.

So next I tried cleaning and applying clear silicone sealant.  I'm still losing 
air at a prodigious rate!!!

Soapy water says the leaks are around the bead area, is there any specific 
technique for identifying what is _exactly_ causing the problem?  And what 
should I do when I find it?

Thank you,
Donald.

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue Sep  4 16:46:26 2007
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:46:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
In-Reply-To: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070904184626.00e804e8@pop.east.cox.net>

At 06:37 PM 9/4/2007 -0400, Donald H Locker wrote:

>The first thing I did was break the beads and clean all the mating
surfaces.  No 
>abrasives, just soap, water and a cotton rag, then air to push the beads
back 
>into position.  No joy.

Donald,

There's your first mistake.  If it ain't broke - don't fix it! :)  

(Couldn't resist.)

>Soapy water says the leaks are around the bead area, is there any specific 
>technique for identifying what is _exactly_ causing the problem?  And what 
>should I do when I find it?

I'd start by marking the tire and wheel with something like chalk or paint.
The carefully examine the rim and tire.  Could very easily be a peice of
rusted
metal that is stuck to the bead area of the tire, or a bad rust pit on the 
rim.  I'd apply some Silcion to the rim where you marked and carefully clean
the tire bead.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From frerichs at tconl.com  Tue Sep  4 16:52:44 2007
From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:52:44 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
In-Reply-To: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>
References: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <01b001c7ef46$5155dfc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>

Why not just put tubes in them.  I was having a similar problem on my
wheelbarrow.  After a couple attempts to clean and seal the rim/bead, I just
went down to the local farm supply store and found that they had tubes for
practically any size tire.  I got the right one for my wheel and now I only
have to air up the wheelbarrow tire about once every two years.

Mike Frerichs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald H Locker
> 
> Hi, All.
> 
> Before the snow season, I'd like to get the tubeless tires on my
> snowblower to
> seal sufficiently that I don't have to air them up every time I want to
> use it.

From clmautz at gmail.com  Tue Sep  4 17:00:57 2007
From: clmautz at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Q2hpcCBNYXV0eg==?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:00:57 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
In-Reply-To: <01b001c7ef46$5155dfc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
References: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net><01b001c7ef46$5155dfc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1188946833.12553.shop-talk@autox.team.net>

I used fix-a-flat, worked great, hold air all season.  When it wears out, I filled it again...  Mind you this was in a wheelbarrow.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Mike Frerichs" <frerichs at tconl.com>

Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:52:44 
To:<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires


Why not just put tubes in them.  I was having a similar problem on my
wheelbarrow.  After a couple attempts to clean and seal the rim/bead, I just
went down to the local farm supply store and found that they had tubes for
practically any size tire.  I got the right one for my wheel and now I only
have to air up the wheelbarrow tire about once every two years.

Mike Frerichs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald H Locker
> 
> Hi, All.
> 
> Before the snow season, I'd like to get the tubeless tires on my
> snowblower to
> seal sufficiently that I don't have to air them up every time I want to
> use it.
_______________________________________________
clmautz at gmail.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Tue Sep  4 17:24:37 2007
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:24:37 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
In-Reply-To: <20070904230042.6C834187AFE@autox.team.net>
References: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>
	<01b001c7ef46$5155dfc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
	<20070904230042.6C834187AFE@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <ea2385360709041624h785ad11we9f917d384530d46@mail.gmail.com>

*The old geezer at a tire shop here in town fixes bead leaks on lawn
equipment very simply and he did one for me a year ago . . He breaks it down
and gives the wheel a cursory sanding to remove loose flakes of rust and
rubber.  Then he makes sure the tire bead isn't split or peeling and then he
squirts a sloppy amount of WD40 on both surfaces, mounts the tire, squirts
it again, and inflates it to about twice regular pressure.  I haven't added
air in a year. I figure the solvents in WD 40 soften the rubber enough to
let it conform to the rim irregularities or something . . . I wouldn't do it
to a road tire but . . . .   *

On 9/4/07, Chip Mautz <clmautz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I used fix-a-flat, worked great, hold air all season.  When it wears out,
> I filled it again...  Mind you this was in a wheelbarrow.
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Mike Frerichs" <frerichs at tconl.com>
>
> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:52:44
> To:<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
>
>
> Why not just put tubes in them.  I was having a similar problem on my
> wheelbarrow.  After a couple attempts to clean and seal the rim/bead, I
> just
> went down to the local farm supply store and found that they had tubes for
> practically any size tire.  I got the right one for my wheel and now I
> only
> have to air up the wheelbarrow tire about once every two years.
>
> Mike Frerichs
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Donald H Locker
> >
> > Hi, All.
> >
> > Before the snow season, I'd like to get the tubeless tires on my
> > snowblower to
> > seal sufficiently that I don't have to air them up every time I want to
> > use it.
> _______________________________________________
> clmautz at gmail.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> _______________________________________________
> eltonclark at gmail.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Tue Sep  4 17:38:18 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 19:38:18 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
In-Reply-To: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>
References: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709041638m4137a7c7scca001878418ad18@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/4/07, Donald H Locker <dhlocker at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi, All.
>
> Before the snow season, I'd like to get the tubeless tires on my snowblower to
> seal sufficiently that I don't have to air them up every time I want to use it.
>
> The first thing I did was break the beads and clean all the mating surfaces.  No
> abrasives, just soap, water and a cotton rag, then air to push the beads back
> into position.  No joy.
>
> So I opened things again and cleaned again but this time I applied rubber cement
> to the mating surfaces (as suggested by a local tire shop) and re-inflated the
> critters.  As well as I can determine, the air loss is undiminished.
>
> So next I tried cleaning and applying clear silicone sealant.  I'm still losing
> air at a prodigious rate!!!
>
> Soapy water says the leaks are around the bead area, is there any specific
> technique for identifying what is _exactly_ causing the problem?  And what
> should I do when I find it?

When I did this for a living, the technique was to remove the tire,
buff the beads (we used a special buffing wheel in a drill, that
wouldn't remove good paint, but took off loose paint, dirt, and rust,
but a wire wheel will work.  Repaint later, if you care.), apply a
seriously gooey and sticky bead sealer on the bead surface, and
remount the tire.  If I were doing this to my snowblower, I'd go with
tubes.  You may be able to find them with pre-installed sealant in
them.  If not, add it.



-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From kennedybc at comcast.net  Tue Sep  4 18:47:55 2007
From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C. Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:47:55 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709041638m4137a7c7scca001878418ad18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C30374FB.612A%kennedybc@comcast.net>

I live in MI and had this trouble with my garden tractor. I used one of
those pressurized cans of leak sealer. No more leaks. (I only use a small
amount and one can works for several small tires.)
Brian Kennedy


> From: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 19:38:18 -0400
> To: Donald H Locker <dhlocker at comcast.net>
> Cc: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
> 
> On 9/4/07, Donald H Locker <dhlocker at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hi, All.
>> 
>> Before the snow season, I'd like to get the tubeless tires on my snowblower
>> to
>> seal sufficiently that I don't have to air them up every time I want to use
>> it.
>> 
>> The first thing I did was break the beads and clean all the mating surfaces.
>> No
>> abrasives, just soap, water and a cotton rag, then air to push the beads back
>> into position.  No joy.
>> 
>> So I opened things again and cleaned again but this time I applied rubber
>> cement
>> to the mating surfaces (as suggested by a local tire shop) and re-inflated
>> the
>> critters.  As well as I can determine, the air loss is undiminished.
>> 
>> So next I tried cleaning and applying clear silicone sealant.  I'm still
>> losing
>> air at a prodigious rate!!!
>> 
>> Soapy water says the leaks are around the bead area, is there any specific
>> technique for identifying what is _exactly_ causing the problem?  And what
>> should I do when I find it?
> 
> When I did this for a living, the technique was to remove the tire,
> buff the beads (we used a special buffing wheel in a drill, that
> wouldn't remove good paint, but took off loose paint, dirt, and rust,
> but a wire wheel will work.  Repaint later, if you care.), apply a
> seriously gooey and sticky bead sealer on the bead surface, and
> remount the tire.  If I were doing this to my snowblower, I'd go with
> tubes.  You may be able to find them with pre-installed sealant in
> them.  If not, add it.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Scheidt
> dmscheidt at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> kennedybc at comcast.net
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Tue Sep  4 19:20:18 2007
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 21:20:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
In-Reply-To: <C30374FB.612A%kennedybc@comcast.net>
References: <C30374FB.612A%kennedybc@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20070904211825.E6906@itonami.pair.com>

On Tue, 4 Sep 2007, Brian C. Kennedy wrote:
> I live in MI and had this trouble with my garden tractor. I used one of
> those pressurized cans of leak sealer. No more leaks. (I only use a small
> amount and one can works for several small tires.)

    If Tire Slime can seal these... I'm thinkin' it can seal just about 
anything.

 	http://planet-torque.com/garage/studs.jpg

    That's about 2400 Kold Kutters, total.

--
  David Hillman

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Tue Sep  4 21:22:51 2007
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:22:51 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] tubeless (and airless) tires
In-Reply-To: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>
References: <46DDDE39.5010506@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46DE210B.5070708@comcast.net>

Many thanks for all the suggestions.  It looks like one more break-down, 
clean-up and seal attempt, then Slime, then tubes.

This is a great group.
Donald.

Donald H Locker wrote:
> Hi, All.
> 
> Before the snow season, I'd like to get the tubeless tires on my snowblower to 
> seal sufficiently that I don't have to air them up every time I want to use it.

[snip]

From chad at linuxeg.com  Fri Sep  7 17:46:49 2007
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:46:49 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
Message-ID: <46E1E2E9.4070106@linuxeg.com>

Anyone familiar with something called "Enviro-Safe 22a"
refrigerants? Claims to be non-ozone depleting; additionally,
cools better then R22 in home AC units - central and window.?
It's sold without need for licenses or certificates and is less
expensive then R22. There is also a R12 for cars. Sounds too
good too good to be true. Do a search for
Enviro-Safe, there are a numbers of outfits selling this product.
What say anyone.
Thanks
Chad

From stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com  Fri Sep  7 18:01:20 2007
From: stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com (Stevie G)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 20:01:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
In-Reply-To: <46E1E2E9.4070106@linuxeg.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7f1ab$666a1b80$0201a8c0@steve>

Any chance it's just repackaged Propane?

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+stevie_g=swampfoxcustoms.com at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+stevie_g=swampfoxcustoms.com at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Chadwick E. Labno
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 7:47 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22

Anyone familiar with something called "Enviro-Safe 22a"
refrigerants? Claims to be non-ozone depleting; additionally,
cools better then R22 in home AC units - central and window.?
It's sold without need for licenses or certificates and is less
expensive then R22. There is also a R12 for cars. Sounds too
good too good to be true. Do a search for
Enviro-Safe, there are a numbers of outfits selling this product.
What say anyone.
Thanks
Chad
_______________________________________________
stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From chad at linuxeg.com  Fri Sep  7 18:34:38 2007
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:34:38 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
In-Reply-To: <000001c7f1ab$666a1b80$0201a8c0@steve>
References: <000001c7f1ab$666a1b80$0201a8c0@steve>
Message-ID: <46E1EE1E.5090104@linuxeg.com>

You might be right, MSDS states:
Alkanes                 %100

Wikepdia under Alkanes lists: methane, ethane, propane, butane.

Well, the idea was nice while it lasted.
chad


Stevie G wrote:

>Any chance it's just repackaged Propane?

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Sep  7 18:56:17 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 17:56:17 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
In-Reply-To: <46E1E2E9.4070106@linuxeg.com>
References: <46E1E2E9.4070106@linuxeg.com>
Message-ID: <005f01c7f1b3$10416670$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Anyone familiar with something called "Enviro-Safe 22a"

Nope, never heard of it before.

> It's sold without need for licenses or certificates

I'm wondering if it's actually being sold legally that way.  Doesn't seem to
be listed on the EPA web site
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/REFLIST-20060928final.pdf
although that list is a year out of date.

>  Do a search for
> Enviro-Safe, there are a numbers of outfits selling this product.

The few that say anything about what it is, seem to agree that it is a
hydrocarbon.  Eg
http://www.sovereigngroup.org/AR/

However, the EPA says "It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants as CFC
or HCFC substitutes in motor vehicle air conditioning. "
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/qa.html

I did find one discussion board, where it's posted that ES-22a's physical
characteristics are an exact match for propane;
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=468525
 and another where someone said it was a blend of R290 (which I believe is
propane) and R600A.
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=68039

Other than the legal aspect; if it is a blend of different gases, one
downside is that you shouldn't add gas to the system when it gets low.  One
gas will be more apt to leak than the other, so the balance will be upset if
you just add gas to compensate for a leak.

Randall

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Fri Sep  7 19:00:21 2007
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (paul.mele at usermail.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:00:21 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
In-Reply-To: <46E1EE1E.5090104@linuxeg.com>
References: <000001c7f1ab$666a1b80$0201a8c0@steve>   
	<46E1EE1E.5090104@linuxeg.com>
Message-ID: <34875.216.136.13.62.1189213221.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>

I think this is obvious, but just to be sure...
a mixture can be 100 % alkanes, but contain 0% propane

...
Dichlorodifluoromethane (R-12), usually sold under the brand name Freon-12
Refrigerant, R-22 (Chlorodifluoromethane)
 ...

the MSDS, lisiting a medical point of view, is accurate enough to list
composition as 100% alkanes.

the enivironment and/ or compressors will see each compound differently.

Let's see if someone else comes up with the actual compound(s) in these
new compounds

Paul Mele, MD


> You might be right, MSDS states:
> Alkanes                 %100
>
> Wikepdia under Alkanes lists: methane, ethane, propane, butane.
>
> Well, the idea was nice while it lasted.
> chad
>
>
> Stevie G wrote:
>
>>Any chance it's just repackaged Propane?

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Sep  7 20:05:07 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:05:07 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
In-Reply-To: <005f01c7f1b3$10416670$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
References: <46E1E2E9.4070106@linuxeg.com>
	<005f01c7f1b3$10416670$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <006c01c7f1bc$adfeefa0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

>  and another where someone said it was a blend of R290 (which 
> I believe is
> propane) and R600A.
> http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=68039

Sorry, forgot to mention : R600A is isobutane.

If anyone is interested, I have a document with information on how to make a
propane/isobutane mix at home.   Apparently the biggest problem with this
mix (other than being flammable) is that the system works so well it's apt
to ice up on humid days.  If that's a problem for you, you can increase the
proportion of isobutane a bit to bring the evaporator temperature up (and
reduce efficiency).

Unfortunately I've lost the video of R12 burning brightly.

Randall

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Sat Sep  8 02:56:29 2007
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (paul.mele at usermail.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 02:56:29 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
In-Reply-To: <006c01c7f1bc$adfeefa0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
References: <46E1E2E9.4070106@linuxeg.com>
	<005f01c7f1b3$10416670$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<006c01c7f1bc$adfeefa0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <16916.216.136.13.62.1189241789.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>

I'd love to read what you have on the subject.

Paul Mele



>>  and another where someone said it was a blend of R290 (which
>> I believe is
>> propane) and R600A.
>> http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=68039
>
> Sorry, forgot to mention : R600A is isobutane.
>
> If anyone is interested, I have a document with information on how to make
> a
> propane/isobutane mix at home.   Apparently the biggest problem with this
> mix (other than being flammable) is that the system works so well it's apt
> to ice up on humid days.  If that's a problem for you, you can increase
> the
> proportion of isobutane a bit to bring the evaporator temperature up (and
> reduce efficiency).
>
> Unfortunately I've lost the video of R12 burning brightly.
>
> Randall

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sat Sep  8 03:03:39 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 02:03:39 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
In-Reply-To: <16916.216.136.13.62.1189241789.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>
Message-ID: <20070908090255.FRUT4730.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>

> > If anyone is interested, I have a document with information 
> on how to 
> > make a
> > propane/isobutane mix at home.

Turns out it's still on the net (surprised me !) at
http://vettenet.org/acfaq.txt

Randall

From chad at linuxeg.com  Mon Sep 10 21:20:09 2007
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:20:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Freon 22
In-Reply-To: <20070908090255.FRUT4730.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <20070908090255.FRUT4730.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <46E60969.9020306@linuxeg.com>

I guess the old saying in true - there's no free(on) lunch -
Ok, I tried a little creativity.
But, thanks for all the good information. Looks like it's 22
for a while yet.
Chad
           now, let me fire up that propane BBQ - Pine smoked lobster???????

From eric at megageek.com  Tue Sep 11 12:27:39 2007
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:27:39 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
Message-ID: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>

I remember recently there was a discussion on powdercoat systems and I
wondering if we could get an "update."

I forgot who started the questions, but what unit did you go with?  Did you
like it?

Any advice on the Horrible freight one?  I'm guess that it's more the paint
quality and not the gun.  Am I right?

Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Tue Sep 11 12:42:50 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:42:50 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>

eric at megageek.com wrote:
> I remember recently there was a discussion on powdercoat systems and I
> wondering if we could get an "update."
> Any advice on the Horrible freight one?  I'm guess that it's more the paint
> quality and not the gun.  Am I right?

I bought the H.F. one several years ago.  It worked really well, *while* it worked.  Last time I got it out, the high voltage section seemed to be dead.  Luckily, it's not too expensive to replace.  It would actually be nice to have multiple guns that I could hook to the power supply, but HF's is hard wired in, so it would require some hacking. 

I highly recommend this place for PC stuff:
http://www.columbiacoatings.com/

They sell the HF gun, alone and in a kit.  All their powders are available in small quantities, and they're very hobbyist friendly.

  -Wayne

From mikey at b2systems.com  Tue Sep 11 12:51:18 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:51:18 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070911114951.04c805c0@b2systems.com>

   I have the Eastwood gun and its worked great for years now, the HF 
one does just as nice work as the EW one but the HF one seems to not 
work for long.

  I have now gone with the Eastwood pro gun and its night-and-day 
difference with the hobby version.

  At 11:42 AM 9/11/2007, Wayne wrote:
>eric at megageek.com wrote:
> > I remember recently there was a discussion on powdercoat systems and I
> > wondering if we could get an "update."
> > Any advice on the Horrible freight one?  I'm guess that it's more the paint
> > quality and not the gun.  Am I right?
>
>I bought the H.F. one several years ago.  It worked really well, 
>*while* it worked.  Last time I got it out, the high voltage section 
>seemed to be dead.  Luckily, it's not too expensive to replace.  It 
>would actually be nice to have multiple guns that I could hook to 
>the power supply, but HF's is hard wired in, so it would require some hacking.
>
>I highly recommend this place for PC stuff:
>http://www.columbiacoatings.com/
>
>They sell the HF gun, alone and in a kit.  All their powders are 
>available in small quantities, and they're very hobbyist friendly.
>
>   -Wayne
>_______________________________________________
>mikey at b2systems.com
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net  Tue Sep 11 15:37:24 2007
From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:37:24 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] SCAM ==SCAM
Message-ID: <000601c7f4bb$f1c99490$92107247@fred8kwiskhcfu>

After watching about 50 T/V infomercials and mailings I finally ordered the
==SIMONIZE SPECILIAL==  their special new spray on wax, washing gloves, drying
towels and car vac, the polish was $19.95 + 5.95 shipping, the washing
mits/towels were "FREE", the "CAR VAC" was FREE, they arrived today all neatly
package in one small box, inside the box as a invoice for $43.85, yep the free
vac was $7.95 S/H, free towels/mits $7.95, and polish was $7.95, so the $19.95
was now $43.80, so much for a fine company that has been around much longer
than me (i'm 74) and they had started "SCAMMING" customers for what, a few
bucks, just be aware of any "FREE" offers from any company, no matter how good
their reputations have been in the past.  "FT"

From james.f.juhas at snet.net  Tue Sep 11 16:09:16 2007
From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (James F Juhas)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:09:16 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <46E7120C.9050404@snet.net>

I have the Eastwood hobby unit and it has worked fine.  I used a HF unit 
but it didn't seem to disperse the powder as effectively as the EW.

I have used this place for powder; I have purchased large lots of single 
colors that I tend to use a lot of, like satin black or silver.  Great 
deals at times.

http://www.surpluscoatings.com/main.html

Wayne wrote:
> eric at megageek.com wrote:
>   
>> I remember recently there was a discussion on powdercoat systems and I
>> wondering if we could get an "update."
>> Any advice on the Horrible freight one?  I'm guess that it's more the paint
>> quality and not the gun.  Am I right?
>>     
>
> I bought the H.F. one several years ago.  It worked really well, *while* it worked.  Last time I got it out, the high voltage section seemed to be dead.  Luckily, it's not too expensive to replace.  It would actually be nice to have multiple guns that I could hook to the power supply, but HF's is hard wired in, so it would require some hacking. 
>
> I highly recommend this place for PC stuff:
> http://www.columbiacoatings.com/
>
> They sell the HF gun, alone and in a kit.  All their powders are available in small quantities, and they're very hobbyist friendly.
>
>   -Wayne

From arvidj at visi.com  Tue Sep 11 16:30:39 2007
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:30:39 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>

Those of you using the powder coating systems - What are you using for curing?

Does everyone except me have room for an oven in the garage - or never have items that will not fit in an ordinary kitchen oven that 
need coating?

Are any of you using infrared lamps?

And if you are in the IR lamp crowd, what are your experiences - thoughts - suggestions - tips?

And finally, lets hear it from the "I was going to do it myself but decided to have someone else do it" crowd. What types of things 
have you had done and how much did it cost?

As you can tell, I have the need to buy a new toy to coat a metal object that will not fit in a kitchen oven. But I'm trying to do 
the "due diligence" thing for once rather than just go get the tools and have at it - certainly not a mode of operation in which I 
have a great deal of experience.

Thanks,
Arvid 

From mikey at b2systems.com  Tue Sep 11 19:08:53 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:08:53 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
	<006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070911180304.04ce8838@b2systems.com>

At 03:30 PM 9/11/2007, Arvid Jedlicka wrote:
>Those of you using the powder coating systems - What are you using for curing?

  I started with a small toaster oven from Salvation Army and a IR 
lamp, quickly moved up to a old kitchen stove and then moved up to a 
BIG oven.

  The toaster oven was good for very small parts and the IR lamp 
worked but it required constant supervision, you have to move it 
every 5-6 minutes to a new spot and constantly have to move it in-out 
to prevent overheating. I believed incorrectly that since curing 
takes 20-30 minutes that I could walk away but after the first area 
was hot, the second area that the light would hit was near temp 
already with part of it at curing temp, so you end up moving 
constantly.  It required too much supervision, it also took forever, 
both sides of my front axle took about 6 hours and its a small Brit 
car axle...now I just slide the axle in the oven go have a drink and 
come back a few hours later after the oven has shut off and cooled.

  Yes, the IR lamp can do it...but I would never use one again if I 
can avoid it.  The regular kitchen oven worked nicely for most 
smaller parts and I still have it for those times when I only have 
one or 2 small parts.

  I like to do it all myself, that is why I call it my hobby, my 
hobby is not taking a car apart and having someone else fix it...I 
have made money with the big oven also but its still a long ways from 
being paid for :)

         mike

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From james.f.juhas at snet.net  Tue Sep 11 21:35:52 2007
From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (Jim Juhas)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:35:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
	<006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
Message-ID: <46E75E98.4070708@snet.net>

Arvid Jedlicka wrote:

>Those of you using the powder coating systems - What are you using for curing?
>
>
>  
>
I have a wall oven that came free, needing only a little repair to the 
clock and timing unit.  I can set the timer once preheated and the thing 
will shut off when done.  No supervision, practically.

A bigger oven would require more space, of course, but I may step up a 
bit.  We have a cottage that has this big old stove that I have my eye 
on.  I'm sure my wife will be looking for an upgrade there before too 
long, and I can get the leftover.

Used ovens are easy to come by still, I think.  The wall oven I'm using 
came for free, as I said, and it was sort of a unique deal that I won't 
bore you with details about, but I often see discarded stoves on trash 
day, and oven elements rarely fail. It's usually burners and cosmetics 
that cause their demise, those things that suffer from normal wear and tear.

I considered the IR system but read the file print about how much and 
how long it was needed to cure a part.  I calculated that the process 
would be hours long.  For that, I'd paint first.  Or go to the pro for 
the big parts.

Jim

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed Sep 12 10:01:34 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:01:34 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <46E75E98.4070708@snet.net>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com><46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com><006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
	<46E75E98.4070708@snet.net>
Message-ID: <006e01c7f556$317237b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> A bigger oven would require more space, of course, but I may 
> step up a bit.  

Just curious if anyone has looked into building an oven extension that can
be knocked down when not in use ?  I'm thinking maybe panels of mineral wool
faced with light sheet metal that can be butted up against a kitchen oven
opening.  Might need to block off the original vent and possibly add another
vent or even a small fan for good circulation, but otherwise it seems
feasible ?

Randall

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Wed Sep 12 10:12:35 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:12:35 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <006e01c7f556$317237b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com><46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com><006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
	<46E75E98.4070708@snet.net>
	<006e01c7f556$317237b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <46E80FF3.8020805@xxiii.com>

Randall wrote:
> Just curious if anyone has looked into building an oven extension that can
> be knocked down when not in use ?  I'm thinking maybe panels of mineral wool
> faced with light sheet metal that can be butted up against a kitchen oven
> opening.  Might need to block off the original vent and possibly add another
> vent or even a small fan for good circulation, but otherwise it seems

A friend used my PC setup for a ceramic coat on a set of V8 headers.  I'd seen a similar oven setup on another (unfortunately defunct) web site that was nicknamed the "pregnant oven".  Actually, it looks like Google will turn up a few hundred hits for "pregnant oven"  ;)

Pete bought 3 sheets of 2x4' unfaced mineral wool from McMaster Carr.  I figured panel sizes and optimal cutting from the material.  We were able to just stack them on the open door as a 4 sided enclosure.  I used an I.R. thermometer ($40 @ H.F.)  We got moderately good temperature distribution, about 500dF in the oven section and 400dF under the hood.  I think the original oven design actually had an additional heating element installed on the door.

   -Wayne

From arvidj at visi.com  Wed Sep 12 11:54:23 2007
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:54:23 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com><46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com><006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com><46E75E98.4070708@snet.net>
	<006e01c7f556$317237b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <005601c7f565$f3fd3c30$31631aac@behavioral.com>

Here is one that could probably be considered "knock-down-able".

http://www.powdercoatoven.4t.com/

Arvid

> Just curious if anyone has looked into building an oven extension that can
> be knocked down when not in use ?  I'm thinking maybe panels of mineral wool
> faced with light sheet metal that can be butted up against a kitchen oven
> opening.  Might need to block off the original vent and possibly add another
> vent or even a small fan for good circulation, but otherwise it seems
> feasible ?
> 
> Randall

From jem at milleredp.com  Wed Sep 12 11:55:17 2007
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:55:17 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Oetiker clamps
Message-ID: <46E82805.4080301@milleredp.com>

Anyone recommend a source for Oetiker ear-type clamps (the things 
customarily seen on CV boots, steering-rack boots, some ball joints, 
etc.) in quantities < 100pc, particularly in > 1.5in sizes?

Thanks.

John.

From cak at dimebank.com  Wed Sep 12 12:51:01 2007
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:51:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Oetiker clamps
Message-ID: <200709121851.l8CIp11Y000410@moose.dimebank.com>

I've bought some from Dave Bean Engineering in the past.

From mikey at b2systems.com  Wed Sep 12 15:18:58 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:18:58 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <005601c7f565$f3fd3c30$31631aac@behavioral.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
	<006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
	<46E75E98.4070708@snet.net>
	<006e01c7f556$317237b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<005601c7f565$f3fd3c30$31631aac@behavioral.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070912141252.05a964f8@b2systems.com>

   The "pregnant oven" is on Eastwoods forums

http://forum.eastwoodco.com/showthread.php?t=1464&highlight=pregnant+oven

http://forum.eastwoodco.com/showthread.php?t=5096&highlight=pregnant

  It works quite well but I would be (ok was) afraid of it for any 
long term use although it would be great for a "once in a while", I 
went with a commercial oven.   The 4t link that was posted earlier 
was another thought of mine but it did not go into enough detail on 
the electrical part for this non-electricity minded person to feel 
comfortable building it.

		mike
	mike


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed Sep 12 15:45:22 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:45:22 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <005601c7f565$f3fd3c30$31631aac@behavioral.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com><46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com><006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com><46E75E98.4070708@snet.net>
	<006e01c7f556$317237b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<005601c7f565$f3fd3c30$31631aac@behavioral.com>
Message-ID: <00b801c7f586$3853fe80$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Here is one that could probably be considered "knock-down-able".
> 
> http://www.powdercoatoven.4t.com/

Thanks, Arvid.   Not exactly what I was thinking of, but does show that the
concept is valid.

He does mention disassembling the oven for storage; and under "Things I
would do differently" even lists allowing for a 3' configuration as well as
the 6' shown.

Randall

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed Sep 12 15:59:21 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:59:21 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Oetiker clamps
In-Reply-To: <46E82805.4080301@milleredp.com>
References: <46E82805.4080301@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <00c001c7f588$2c8c2d50$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Anyone recommend a source for Oetiker ear-type clamps (the things 
> customarily seen on CV boots, steering-rack boots, some ball joints, 
> etc.) in quantities < 100pc, particularly in > 1.5in sizes?

McMaster-Carr has them to 3-3/4"
http://www.mcmaster.com/
"Pkg qty" is either 25 or 10, depending on size.  Usually they will break a
package for an extra charge, if you ask; but since none of those packages
are over $15, it hardly seems worth it.

And I'm sure you're aware that, for many applications, a nylon tie-wrap
works just as well.  Main caveat is temperature, common ones are only good
to 185F or so, but there are "harsh environment" ones good to over 300F.
But they can be easily daisy-chained together to form a clamp as long as you
would like.

Randall

From cak at dimebank.com  Wed Sep 12 18:33:42 2007
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:33:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] zynolyte rust mate
Message-ID: <200709130033.l8D0XgNX018255@moose.dimebank.com>

I just used up my last can. The place I used to buy it thinks it
isn't made any more, and the zynolyte website seems to indicate
the same - and I'm guessing that Aervoe bought them and changed
the entire product mix.

So ... what's the paint of choice for covering light rust and
being resistant to rough handling (bumpers, suspensions, etc)? 
I'm looking for a rattle can, because I'm too lazy to clean my
spray gun for little jobs like this...

Thanks,
chris

From Gt6steve at aol.com  Wed Sep 12 18:45:14 2007
From: Gt6steve at aol.com (Gt6steve at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:45:14 EDT
Subject: [Shop-talk] zynolyte rust mate
Message-ID: <be0.1d95e059.3419e21a@aol.com>

Aervoe buying them may turn out to be a good thing.  I absolutely  swear by 
Aer-Voe engine paints and we're starting to use their industrial  line.  You 
may be pleasantly surprised.    Steve



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From cak at dimebank.com  Wed Sep 12 19:23:40 2007
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] zynolyte rust mate
Message-ID: <200709130123.l8D1NeBT026279@moose.dimebank.com>

> *Don't scare me like that!  I depend on "rustmaster" for everything and
> there's no other choice 'cept "RustOleum".*
> 
> *Zynolyte is alive and well at:*
> **
> http://www.zynolyte.com/zynopages/rustmaster.asp
> 
> *They list an 800 number; call and find a distributor.*

Woohoo. This looks more or less like the old stuff... not sure
why I couldn't find it in the zynolyte pages.

Thanks! Now to see if anyone in California carries it...

From cak at dimebank.com  Wed Sep 12 20:03:28 2007
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] zynolyte rust mate
Message-ID: <200709130203.l8D23SCf001105@moose.dimebank.com>

I see that McMaster-Carr sells a "Hard-Shell Rust-Stopper Paint" in
aerosols, too. They're 15 oz cans and the color selection doesn't exactly
match what the Rust-Master website says. 

I wonder if they'll tell me the brand if I call them?

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed Sep 12 22:18:25 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:18:25 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] zynolyte rust mate
In-Reply-To: <200709130203.l8D23SCf001105@moose.dimebank.com>
Message-ID: <20070913041737.EUXL29779.mta15.adelphia.net@randall>

> I wonder if they'll tell me the brand if I call them?

I believe so, yes.  I've called them in the past with a similar question,
and they told me what I wanted to know.

There was a distinct change in their policies a few years back, so they now
almost never mention name brand in their catalog.  I suspect it's because
they were having a hard time tracking all the changes, plus they wanted
freedom to supply an equivalent product.

Randall

From foxtrapper at aceweb.com  Thu Sep 13 05:58:30 2007
From: foxtrapper at aceweb.com (Nolan)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:58:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com><46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com><006201c7f4c
	3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com><46E75E98.4070708@snet.net>
	<006e01c7f556$317237b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <003001c7f5fd$67012dd0$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us>

Here's the old buckeye Triumphs article where the pregnant oven comes from, 
complete with pictures.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randall" <tr3driver at ca.rr.com>
Cc: "'Shop-Talk List'" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems


>> A bigger oven would require more space, of course, but I may
>> step up a bit.
>
> Just curious if anyone has looked into building an oven extension that can
> be knocked down when not in use ?  I'm thinking maybe panels of mineral 
> wool
> faced with light sheet metal that can be butted up against a kitchen oven
> opening.  Might need to block off the original vent and possibly add 
> another
> vent or even a small fan for good circulation, but otherwise it seems
> feasible ?
>
> Randall

From jszwed at energykinetics.com  Thu Sep 13 06:52:19 2007
From: jszwed at energykinetics.com (Joe Szwed)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 08:52:19 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] zynolyte rust mate
In-Reply-To: <20070913041737.EUXL29779.mta15.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <200709130203.l8D23SCf001105@moose.dimebank.com>
	<20070913041737.EUXL29779.mta15.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <000c01c7f604$ebc225e0$69141414@EnergyKinetics.EKnet>

You should be able to request a data sheet for any product from McMaster.  I
have gotten data sheets in the past when I needed more specific info on
certain products.  

FYI -You can even get them to quote you and purchase from them, non standard
catalog items as long as you buy the minimum lot size or case quantity.

Joe Szwed


>> I wonder if they'll tell me the brand if I call them?

>I believe so, yes.  I've called them in the past with a similar question,
and they told me what I wanted to know.

From cak at dimebank.com  Thu Sep 13 10:53:04 2007
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:53:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] zynolyte rust mate
Message-ID: <200709131653.l8DGr4Gr028572@moose.dimebank.com>

> > *Don't scare me like that!  I depend on "rustmaster" for everything and
> > there's no other choice 'cept "RustOleum".*
> > 
> > *Zynolyte is alive and well at:*
> > **
> > http://www.zynolyte.com/zynopages/rustmaster.asp
> > 
> > *They list an 800 number; call and find a distributor.*
> 
> Woohoo. This looks more or less like the old stuff... not sure
> why I couldn't find it in the zynolyte pages.
> 
> Thanks! Now to see if anyone in California carries it...

Well, there's huge confusion at Aervoe.

The first person I called gave me several distributors, none of
which had heard of this paint. They appeared to be general Aervoe
distributors.

I called again. That person said that Rust-Master has been discontinued,
and that Aervoe "Rust Proof" is "the very same paint".

We'll see. It should be easier to find, at least!

chris

From rs1121 at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 13 15:49:31 2007
From: rs1121 at earthlink.net (Ron Schmittou)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:49:31 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator
In-Reply-To: <46D5C090.1030806@xxiii.com>
References: <46D5A769.6010104@linuxeg.com>
	<513334.44173.qm@web505.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<00ea01c7ea62$bb8ca600$32a5f200$@net>
	<2400a5d40708291049j721a52aarb4358ec1f6097ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<46D5C090.1030806@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <011c01c7f64f$f90c7160$eb255420$@net>

SO - at the risk of sounding prurient, What was the end result?  I never saw
any headlines on Fox about elderly man injured in dispute with wife over
fridge??

From cak at dimebank.com  Thu Sep 13 15:57:31 2007
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:57:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] zynolyte rust mate is now aervoe rust master
Message-ID: <200709132157.l8DLvVnq014311@moose.dimebank.com>

After much calling around, I found a Fastenal store that had some
in stock and was willing to sell a single can. The satin black 
(color 344) looks just like the Zynolyte black of yore.

The webpage here

http://www.aervoe.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=3&idproduct=523

I got a 12 oz can, a case is 6 cans.

It remains to be seen if it's as durable as the old, good stuff.

From eric at megageek.com  Fri Sep 14 06:58:53 2007
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:58:53 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator
Message-ID: <OFD6FBE08F.1662C687-ON85257356.00474F37-85257356.00474F3A@mail.megageek.com>

Since Ron asked for an update I'll give you all the answer...

(Note, I'm not proud of my actions, but I did "help a great old man!")

Turns out, the Gods favored my decision to act, because about a week after
I posted the question, a tree came down on one of the power lines and me
and my neighbor were without power for the better part of a day.  He walked
over to my house and simply said, "the time is now."  I knew what he meant.

I came over the house, and him and I pulled a few key wires out of the
frig, rendering it "DOA."

Then, he moved the perishable items into a ice chest and we went out an got
a bunch of ice (this was normal for him to do in a power outage.)  I'm not
sure, but I think he also took out an old TV that he wanted to replace as
well.  8>)  I did see a TV box in his recycle pile later.

When the power was restored (almost in the middle of the night,) he told
his wife that the brown out that happened must have finally done in the
frig.  She was cool with that. (pun intended!)

As for what I got out of it, my telephone circuit protector got fried in
the tree fall.  It was quickly replaced (BTW, I can't recommend them
enough!)

We did get a few cool insulators off the power lines. (they were ripped
from the lines and the power co people said they don't reuse them (these
were older ones.)

One thing that sucked, the power crews were working all night long to
restore the lines, replace a pole, and some other stuff.  I had flashing
lights blinking in the windows all night.  I don't know how city folk put
up with that stuff.

"Mission Accomplished!"

Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 07:52:04 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:52:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator
In-Reply-To: <OFD6FBE08F.1662C687-ON85257356.00474F37-85257356.00474F3A@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFD6FBE08F.1662C687-ON85257356.00474F37-85257356.00474F3A@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709140652r7bc94233t42b1516e59988215@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/14/07, eric at megageek.com <eric at megageek.com> wrote:

>
> One thing that sucked, the power crews were working all night long to
> restore the lines, replace a pole, and some other stuff. I had flashing
> lights blinking in the windows all night. I don't know how city folk put
> up with that stuff.

Curtains.


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Fri Sep 14 08:53:43 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:53:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator
In-Reply-To: <OFD6FBE08F.1662C687-ON85257356.00474F37-85257356.00474F3A@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFD6FBE08F.1662C687-ON85257356.00474F37-85257356.00474F3A@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709141053250.31668@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007, eric at megageek.com wrote:
> One thing that sucked, the power crews were working all night long to 
> restore the lines, replace a pole, and some other stuff.  I had flashing 
> lights blinking in the windows all night.  I don't know how city folk 
> put up with that stuff.

You shoot out the lights.

Duh.

Mark

From pethier at comcast.net  Fri Sep 14 12:34:17 2007
From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:34:17 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator
Message-ID: <091420071834.22397.46EAD429000012B30000577D22070032019D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>

>I had flashing
> lights blinking in the windows all night.  I don't know how city folk put
> up with that stuff.

I live in a city and I don't have lights blinking in the windows all night.

--
Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net    http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.

From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net  Fri Sep 14 13:05:36 2007
From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (fred thomas)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:05:36 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator
References: <091420071834.22397.46EAD429000012B30000577D22070032019D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <006101c7f702$3c4f6560$df177247@fred8kwiskhcfu>

> >I had flashing
>> lights blinking in the windows all night.  I don't know how city folk put
>> up with that stuff.
>
> I live in a city and I don't have lights blinking in the windows all 
> night.
===========================================================================================================
I live in the country and we have ==NO== street lights, street lights are 
reserved for the shopping centre  "FT" 

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Fri Sep 14 15:18:54 2007
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (paul.mele at usermail.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:18:54 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] blinking lights...
In-Reply-To: <006101c7f702$3c4f6560$df177247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
References: <091420071834.22397.46EAD429000012B30000577D22070032019D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>
	<006101c7f702$3c4f6560$df177247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
Message-ID: <22035.69.134.178.215.1189804734.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>

I live in a house, and have blinking alarm clock, tv, WAP hub, and whole
lot of other crap blinking INSIDE my house all the time....



>> >I had flashing
>>> lights blinking in the windows all night.  I don't know how city folk
>>> put
>>> up with that stuff.
>>
>> I live in a city and I don't have lights blinking in the windows all
>> night.
> ===========================================================================================================
> I live in the country and we have ==NO== street lights, street lights are
> reserved for the shopping centre  "FT"

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Sep 14 16:05:55 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:05:55 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] blinking lights...
In-Reply-To: <22035.69.134.178.215.1189804734.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>
References: <091420071834.22397.46EAD429000012B30000577D22070032019D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net><006101c7f702$3c4f6560$df177247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
	<22035.69.134.178.215.1189804734.squirrel@imap.usermail.com>
Message-ID: <014401c7f71b$6c2c03b0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> I live in a house, and have blinking alarm clock, tv, WAP 
> hub, and whole
> lot of other crap blinking INSIDE my house all the time....

You'd be amazed what a little black electrical tape will do for those ...

Randall

From bspidell at comcast.net  Fri Sep 14 19:09:10 2007
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:09:10 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Question
Message-ID: <46EB30B6.6080402@comcast.net>

Got a question for the electrician-types out there:

I needed to replace a wall switch, and when I finally determined which 
breaker
was on the circuit when I opened the breaker I still saw 40V AC on the 
two poles.

Does this mean I have a ground loop, or is there something about house 
wiring
I don't understand.  The house is old--built in the late '50s--if that 
matters, and I think
it's mostly two-wire circuits.


bs

-- 
***************************************************************
Bob Spidell         San Jose, CA        bspidell at comcast.net
'67 Austin-Healey 3000             '56 Austin-Healey 100M
***************************************************************

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Fri Sep 14 20:34:30 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:34:30 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Acid sharpening?
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070914192649.03289b40@incoming.verizon.net>

Have we talked about this one?  I believe it came up on my machinist's list 
a while back but nothing conclusive came of it.

I have a quart (plastic) bottle of something called "Chemsharp".  I got it 
mail order years ago and it's apparently NLA for reasons that will become 
obvious.  Anyway, it was sold as a chemical sharpener for files (and other 
cutting tools).  You clean an old file, soak it in the Chemsharp juice, and 
the file comes out sharp.  It actually works very well; apparently as the 
teeth are dissolved, they form a sharp point.  I suspect it's mostly some 
sort of acid, possibly nitric, at some unknown dilution.  The stuff can be 
re-used until it doesn't work any more, but I only have the quart and would 
like to get some more as I have just started a job as a high school shop 
teacher, and I have a bunch of files and rasps that need sharpening, and I 
don't want to use my own stuff if I can't get some more.

I imagine this stuff is no longer available because whoever made it was 
either sued out of existence after some idiot rinsed his contacts in it, or 
they couldn't get liability insurance and folded, which is too bad because 
the stuff works very well.  Anyone have any ideas what kind of more or less 
readily acid would work, and at what dilution level?  Should I just go up 
to the chemistry lab storeroom and steal a jug of nitric acid and use 
that?  I promise to wear my goggles and rubber apron.

Thanks
Dave C

From BSHolden at aol.com  Fri Sep 14 21:20:24 2007
From: BSHolden at aol.com (BSHolden at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:20:24 EDT
Subject: [Shop-talk] Acid sharpening?
Message-ID: <d2a.16584696.341ca978@aol.com>

Is this the stuff?:
_http://www.weldersource.com/chemsharp.html_ 
(http://www.weldersource.com/chemsharp.html) 
 
Bart
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
In a message dated 9/14/2007 9:35:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
cavanadd at verizon.net writes:

Have we  talked about this one?  I believe it came up on my machinist's list 
a  while back but nothing conclusive came of it.

I have a quart (plastic)  bottle of something called "Chemsharp".  I got it 
mail order years  ago and it's apparently NLA for reasons that will become 
obvious.   Anyway, it was sold as a chemical sharpener for files (and other 
cutting  tools).  You clean an old file, soak it in the Chemsharp juice, and  
the file comes out sharp.  It actually works very well; apparently as  the 
teeth are dissolved, they form a sharp point.  I suspect it's  mostly some 
sort of acid, possibly nitric, at some unknown dilution.   The stuff can be 
re-used until it doesn't work any more, but I only have  the quart and would 
like to get some more as I have just started a job as  a high school shop 
teacher, and I have a bunch of files and rasps that  need sharpening, and I 
don't want to use my own stuff if I can't get some  more.

I imagine this stuff is no longer available because whoever made  it was 
either sued out of existence after some idiot rinsed his contacts  in it, or 
they couldn't get liability insurance and folded, which is too  bad because 
the stuff works very well.  Anyone have any ideas what  kind of more or less 
readily acid would work, and at what dilution  level?  Should I just go up 
to the chemistry lab storeroom and steal  a jug of nitric acid and use 
that?  I promise to wear my goggles and  rubber apron.

Thanks
Dave  C

From mark at nashvilletn.org  Fri Sep 14 21:28:09 2007
From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 22:28:09 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Acid sharpening?
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070914192649.03289b40@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <00c701c7f748$71004ea0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>

David,

Here is a link to the process.  Sulfuric is what the article describes. 
Might be able to get that at a parts store.

http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=157695&submit_thread=1

Mark
Nashville
http://www.arrestmered.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David C." <cavanadd at verizon.net>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:34 PM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Acid sharpening?



Have we talked about this one?  I believe it came up on my machinist's list
a while back but nothing conclusive came of it.

I have a quart (plastic) bottle of something called "Chemsharp".  I got it
mail order years ago and it's apparently NLA for reasons that will become
obvious.  Anyway, it was sold as a chemical sharpener for files (and other
cutting tools).  You clean an old file, soak it in the Chemsharp juice, and
the file comes out sharp.  It actually works very well; apparently as the
teeth are dissolved, they form a sharp point.  I suspect it's mostly some
sort of acid, possibly nitric, at some unknown dilution.  The stuff can be
re-used until it doesn't work any more, but I only have the quart and would
like to get some more as I have just started a job as a high school shop
teacher, and I have a bunch of files and rasps that need sharpening, and I
don't want to use my own stuff if I can't get some more.

I imagine this stuff is no longer available because whoever made it was
either sued out of existence after some idiot rinsed his contacts in it, or
they couldn't get liability insurance and folded, which is too bad because
the stuff works very well.  Anyone have any ideas what kind of more or less
readily acid would work, and at what dilution level?  Should I just go up
to the chemistry lab storeroom and steal a jug of nitric acid and use
that?  I promise to wear my goggles and rubber apron.

Thanks
Dave C
_______________________________________________
mark at nashvilletn.org

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Sep 14 22:05:03 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:05:03 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Question
In-Reply-To: <46EB30B6.6080402@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20070915040414.RKP18315.mta11.adelphia.net@randall>

> I needed to replace a wall switch, and when I finally 
> determined which breaker was on the circuit when I opened the 
> breaker I still saw 40V AC on the two poles.

Could be normal, if there isn't any load connected.  Or it might mean
something odd with the wiring.  I've seen several older houses now with
strange things like fuses in the neutral.  In my first house, when I undid
the wires to replace the light fixture in the utility room (with it's fuse
removed of course), the kitchen lights got really bright.

Try turning on an incandescent light or something to load the circuit.  If
you still get 40vac, there is something wrong.

Randall

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Fri Sep 14 22:51:43 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:51:43 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Acid sharpening?
In-Reply-To: <00c701c7f748$71004ea0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070914192649.03289b40@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070914215017.0156fe50@incoming.verizon.net>

thanks.  Interesting link.  Looks like regular old battery acid might work.


At 10:28 PM  9/14/2007  -0500, Mark wrote:
>David,
>
>Here is a link to the process.  Sulfuric is what the article describes.
>Might be able to get that at a parts store.
>
>http://people.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=157695&submit_thread=1
>
>Mark
>Nashville
>http://www.arrestmered.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David C." <cavanadd at verizon.net>
>To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 9:34 PM
>Subject: [Shop-talk] Acid sharpening?
>
>
>
>Have we talked about this one?  I believe it came up on my machinist's list
>a while back but nothing conclusive came of it.
>
>I have a quart (plastic) bottle of something called "Chemsharp".  I got it
>mail order years ago and it's apparently NLA for reasons that will become
>obvious.  Anyway, it was sold as a chemical sharpener for files (and other
>cutting tools).  You clean an old file, soak it in the Chemsharp juice, and
>the file comes out sharp.  It actually works very well; apparently as the
>teeth are dissolved, they form a sharp point.  I suspect it's mostly some
>sort of acid, possibly nitric, at some unknown dilution.  The stuff can be
>re-used until it doesn't work any more, but I only have the quart and would
>like to get some more as I have just started a job as a high school shop
>teacher, and I have a bunch of files and rasps that need sharpening, and I
>don't want to use my own stuff if I can't get some more.
>
>I imagine this stuff is no longer available because whoever made it was
>either sued out of existence after some idiot rinsed his contacts in it, or
>they couldn't get liability insurance and folded, which is too bad because
>the stuff works very well.  Anyone have any ideas what kind of more or less
>readily acid would work, and at what dilution level?  Should I just go up
>to the chemistry lab storeroom and steal a jug of nitric acid and use
>that?  I promise to wear my goggles and rubber apron.
>
>Thanks
>Dave C
>_______________________________________________
>mark at nashvilletn.org
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com  Sat Sep 15 08:16:22 2007
From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:16:22 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Electrical Question
In-Reply-To: <46EB30B6.6080402@comcast.net>
References: <46EB30B6.6080402@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46EBE936.9000708@hornesystemstx.com>

Bob,

Sounds like you have leakage current flowing past the breaker. An easy 
way to be sure is to turn the breaker off and check the voltage. Then 
plug a lamp into one of the sockets on that circuit and turn the lamp 
on. It should not come on. Now check the voltage across the switch again 
and I suspect it will be zero.

Go ahead and replace the switch, then turn the breaker back on and 
everything should be fine.

The reason you are seeing voltage on the switch is that the circuit is 
open with the switch off. Any leakage current will produce a voltage 
into an high resistance (open circuit). I wouldn't worry about it unless 
there is still voltage (more than a volt or two)across the switch with 
the lamp plugged in. If you have voltage, replace the breaker.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Bob Spidell:
> Got a question for the electrician-types out there:
>
> I needed to replace a wall switch, and when I finally determined which 
> breaker
> was on the circuit when I opened the breaker I still saw 40V AC on the 
> two poles.
>
> Does this mean I have a ground loop, or is there something about house 
> wiring
> I don't understand.  The house is old--built in the late '50s--if that 
> matters, and I think
> it's mostly two-wire circuits.
>
>
> bs
>
>   


-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From bn1 at pacbell.net  Sat Sep 15 16:59:45 2007
From: bn1 at pacbell.net (Bill)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:59:45 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Neopreme lubricant.
Message-ID: <46EC63E1.6000703@pacbell.net>

Listers,

When replacing the rubber front suspension bushings with the neoprene, 
should a lubricant be used, or should they be left dry.  If lubricated, 
what type should be used?   Squeaks?

Thanks for your help,

Bill Barnett
Santa Ana, CA
'53 BN1 #663

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sat Sep 15 17:19:46 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 16:19:46 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Neopreme lubricant.
In-Reply-To: <46EC63E1.6000703@pacbell.net>
References: <46EC63E1.6000703@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <01b001c7f7ee$e7c0ae30$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> When replacing the rubber front suspension bushings with the 
> neoprene, 

Neoprene or polyurethane ?

> should a lubricant be used, or should they be left dry. 

Neoprene I believe should be left dry and the joint tightened with the
suspension in it's normal 'loaded' position.  The idea being that the rubber
deflects as the suspension moves, rather than sliding.

Poly is just the opposite, and is a popular replacement, which is why I
asked poly or neo.

Randall

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Sun Sep 16 09:38:00 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:38:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

I seem to recall finding an online tool chest place that had tool chests / 
tool boxes that looked to be similar in quality as the pro MAC, Snap-On, 
etc. tool chests for a bit more reasonable price.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Alternatively, anyone have any recommendations for very heavy duty tool 
chests that aren't $4k?

Thanks!

Mark

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Sun Sep 16 10:21:34 2007
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:21:34 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070916122134.00ac5bc8@pop.east.cox.net>

At 11:38 AM 9/16/2007 -0400, Mark Andy wrote:

>Alternatively, anyone have any recommendations for very heavy duty tool 
>chests that aren't $4k?

Mark,

Costco has/had a very nice all stainless steel large top box, with a roll
around cabinet for between $600 and $1,000.  I've got a friend that has one
and it is fantastic!!!

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From frerichs at tconl.com  Sun Sep 16 11:50:16 2007
From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:50:16 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070916122134.00ac5bc8@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<3.0.5.32.20070916122134.00ac5bc8@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <013601c7f88a$0cdc2dc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>

I have what is probably the same stainless steel unit, but from Sam's Club.
The top and bottom together are 61" tall, 41" wide, and 18" deep, not
including side and front handles.  It's fairly heavy duty, comes with a
pre-cut rubber mesh material for the drawer bottoms, and the drawers glide
smoothly.  I saw one in Sam's this morning for, I believe, $687.  Sometimes
they have an even larger set for $999.

I have no interest in Sam's - in fact they tick me off frequently!  However,
in this tool box set I am well pleased!

Mike Frerichs

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Blair
>
> Costco has/had a very nice all stainless steel large top box, with a roll
> around cabinet for between $600 and $1,000.  I've got a friend that has
> one
> and it is fantastic!!!

From charleyrob at charter.net  Sun Sep 16 11:51:05 2007
From: charleyrob at charter.net (Charley Robinson)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:51:05 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070916122134.00ac5bc8@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<3.0.5.32.20070916122134.00ac5bc8@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <000301c7f88a$278150b0$6401a8c0@CHARLEYMAIN>

Mark,

I have a large industrial set of drawers that I bought at a warehouse
auction. Actually, I bought a set of them but will only need one. I don't
have exact measurement right now, but if you are interested, I can send
pictures and accurate dimensions. It is about 5' tall by 2' deep by 40-48"
wide. You can load the drawers up with lots of very heavy stuff and they
still slide easily. I don't know how much it weighs, but it is very heavy.
Probably not worthwhile if it had to be shipped but if you're in the western
CT area, you could pick it up. I'd like to get $400 for it. Let me know if
you would like more details.

Charley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: shop-talk-bounces+charleyrob=charter.net at autox.team.net
> [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+charleyrob=charter.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
> Of John T. Blair
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:22 PM
> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
> 
> At 11:38 AM 9/16/2007 -0400, Mark Andy wrote:
> 
> >Alternatively, anyone have any recommendations for very heavy duty tool
> >chests that aren't $4k?
> 
> Mark,
> 
> Costco has/had a very nice all stainless steel large top box, with a roll
> around cabinet for between $600 and $1,000.  I've got a friend that has
> one
> and it is fantastic!!!
> 
> John
> 
> John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
> Va. Beach, Va
> Phone:  (757) 495-8229
> 
>           48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
>      75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
>                        65 Rambler Classic
> 
> Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
> Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org
> 
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
> _______________________________________________
> charleyrob at charter.net
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From arvidj at visi.com  Sun Sep 16 14:09:14 2007
From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:09:14 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <004101c7f89d$76f28e30$80a8a8c0@dellc84024>

When I was looking several years ago Sams and Costco had the 41 inch 
stainless units from here - http://www.cspsmetal.com/toolchests/index.html - 
for around $700. I bought two of them and have been very pleased with them. 
I have not seen them in either of the stores that I shop in the Minneapolis 
area in the last year but they may be available in other locations. The 
vendor still has them listed on their web site - which use to have a "where 
to get them" tab, I don't see it now. Too bad because I'd really like to get 
a third one.

The drawer slides are much better than the cheap toolboxes from Sears or 
Harbor Freight. The sheetmetal work on one is B+ and the other is B-, but 
neither has any structurial issues that I am aware of, and at $700 each, the 
quality and square inches of drawer space for the price was A+.

Arvid

> Howdy,
>
> I seem to recall finding an online tool chest place that had tool chests /
> tool boxes that looked to be similar in quality as the pro MAC, Snap-On,
> etc. tool chests for a bit more reasonable price.
>
> Anyone know what I'm talking about?
>
> Alternatively, anyone have any recommendations for very heavy duty tool
> chests that aren't $4k?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark

From lee at automate-it.com  Sun Sep 16 14:24:55 2007
From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:24:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hydraulic jack failure
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <1136.98.200.58.82.1189974295.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>

I have a medium-duty hydraulic jack (Chinese), labelled "Roush Racing"
although that has little to do with it. It has a "quick-lift" action when
there is no load, i.e. one quick stroke will bring it up to the lifting
surface, then once the load is on it goes into normal lifting mode. Except
today it still works in quick-lift mode but won't do anything once it's
loaded.

The timing was impeccable; put the car up on stands and when it was time to
bring it down, I couldn't lift the car off the stands. Bummer.

Next to the filling plug there are four screw heads labelled "DO NOT ADJUST",
which we all know is Chinese for "Please turn these". I tried moving these
forward and back by 1/4 or 1/2 turn each way, no change. A couple of them
bottom out after 1/2 turn. The manual is useless ("Trouble: won't lift -
Action: Contact manufacturer"). It does have a tiny exploded diagram that
shows what appear to be little Schrader-type valves under the screws.

So, any ideas on these? Just take the valves out and see if they've blown
seals, etc? If it's any help, here are a couple of photos of the jack and the
adjusting screws:

  http://www.automate-it.com/photos/RoushJack1.jpg
  http://www.automate-it.com/photos/RoushJack2.jpg

THANKS,
 Lee

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sun Sep 16 15:47:15 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:47:15 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hydraulic jack failure
In-Reply-To: <1136.98.200.58.82.1189974295.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<1136.98.200.58.82.1189974295.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709161447l39713fa5qee2ea2f294ed4bc1@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/16/07, Lee Daniels <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:
> I have a medium-duty hydraulic jack (Chinese), labelled "Roush Racing"
> although that has little to do with it. It has a "quick-lift" action when
> there is no load, i.e. one quick stroke will bring it up to the lifting
> surface, then once the load is on it goes into normal lifting mode. Except
> today it still works in quick-lift mode but won't do anything once it's
> loaded.
>
> The timing was impeccable; put the car up on stands and when it was time to
> bring it down, I couldn't lift the car off the stands. Bummer.
>

Be glad you put it on stands!

It's been my experience that you fix a jack like this by buying a new
one.  My experience with Chinese-made floor jacks has been dreadful.
They seem to last about 10 uses.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From jmitch at snet.net  Sun Sep 16 16:53:24 2007
From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:53:24 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendation
Message-ID: <46EDB3E4.2060206@snet.net>

   Anyone have any experience with Torin brand tool chests?   Thanks  
John Mitchell     shelton,CT

From malaboge at aol.com  Sun Sep 16 17:24:34 2007
From: malaboge at aol.com (malaboge at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:24:34 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
Message-ID: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>

Oh I hate them meeses to pieces...

So, I didn't drive the Jeep for two weeks. The mice moved in and squatted (literally) under the hood.? After moving in an appropriate amount of pine needles to make a comfy pad, hanging a few pictures of mom, dad and uncle Mickey, they proceeded to have a hootenany on the motor.

After cleaning out the detritus I found they had gnawed thru the electrical wires to the number 5 fuel injector.? Of course I didn't know the occupation had occurred before I started the Jeep to be on my merrry way.?At first thought I figured it must be time for new plugs, kinda soon tho, as it ran on five cylinders only.? After a few minutes of listening to the lope I figured I better look.

SO, now the big question!? Does anyone have knowledge about the "brains" of a '98 Cherokee 6 cyl? Since I ran it for approx 5 minutes, did I fry something? After I soldered the wires back together, I have voltage but no signal for that cyl to fire the injector.?Does the "brain" have separate components for each injector, or is it one big unit with some sort of variable switching mechanism??At this point all the other injectors are receiving a pulse signal except for the "flawed and gnawed" number 5. If its 6 different components, I coulda fried one, but if its just one "deep thought" I will have to look elsewhere.

Whatever happened to carbs and points.....
????????????????????? Nick in Nor Cal

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com

From ScottyGrover at aol.com  Sun Sep 16 17:39:09 2007
From: ScottyGrover at aol.com (ScottyGrover at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:39:09 EDT
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
Message-ID: <d38.141f7df2.341f189d@aol.com>

In a message dated 9/16/2007 4:25:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
malaboge at aol.com writes:

Oh I  hate them meeses to pieces...

So, I didn't drive the Jeep for two  weeks. The mice moved in and squatted 
(literally) under the hood.? After  moving in an appropriate amount of pine 
needles to make a comfy pad, hanging a  few pictures of mom, dad and uncle Mickey, 
they proceeded to have a hootenany  on the motor.

After cleaning out the detritus I found they had gnawed  thru the electrical 
wires to the number 5 fuel injector.? Of course I didn't  know the occupation 
had occurred before I started the Jeep to be on my merrry  way.?At first 
thought I figured it must be time for new plugs, kinda soon tho,  as it ran on five 
cylinders only.? After a few minutes of listening to the  lope I figured I 
better look.

SO, now the big question!? Does anyone  have knowledge about the "brains" of 
a '98 Cherokee 6 cyl? Since I ran it for  approx 5 minutes, did I fry 
something? After I soldered the wires back  together, I have voltage but no signal for 
that cyl to fire the injector.?Does  the "brain" have separate components for 
each injector, or is it one big unit  with some sort of variable switching 
mechanism??At this point all the other  injectors are receiving a pulse signal 
except for the "flawed and gnawed"  number 5. If its 6 different components, I 
coulda fried one, but if its just  one "deep thought" I will have to look 
elsewhere.

Whatever happened to  carbs and points.....
????????????????????? Nick in Nor  Cal

________________________________________________________________________



"But mousie, thou art no' thy lane in proving foresicht may be vain; the  
best-laid plans o' mice and men gang aft agley an' bring us nought but sorrow  
an' pain for promised joy"
Robert Burns



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sun Sep 16 18:44:32 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:44:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <46EDCDF0.8030608@xxiii.com>

malaboge at aol.com wrote:
> Does the "brain" have separate components for each injector

Depends.  Older EFI had "batch fire" where several injectors (like 3 on 
a straight 6) were wired together in parallel.  "Sequential fire" 
systems control  each one individually.  I'd guess by 1998 even Jeep was 
  Sequential;  and from what you describe, it sounds like the driver for 
that one may well be fried.  You can probably buy a re-maned computer 
for less than you might think.  Maybe $150 at you local parts retailer. 
  Or Ebay... or a junkyard...

> Whatever happened to carbs and points.....

Do you really need to ask?  They suck and they're long gone.  Good Riddance.

Actually, I brought the topic up on another mailing list -- "what was 
the last vehicle sold in the US with a carb" and somehow a couple guys 
determined it was the 1991 Subaru Justy.

Honda has engine management down so well, my 2006 Acura RSX doesn't even 
have an EGR valve :)  No pollution controls on the thing other than the 
cat'.  Makes for a nice clean engine compartment;  200HP from 122 cubes 
is cool, as is 11:1 compression on pump gas.  In fact, it has the fewest 
smog devices of any car I've ever owned, and that's going back to a 1973 
Olds Cutlass.

   -Wayne

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sun Sep 16 18:58:16 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:58:16 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <46EDCDF0.8030608@xxiii.com>
References: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>
	<46EDCDF0.8030608@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/16/07, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> malaboge at aol.com wrote:

> > Whatever happened to carbs and points.....
>
> Do you really need to ask? They suck and they're long gone. Good Riddance.
>
Dang right!

> Actually, I brought the topic up on another mailing list -- "what was
> the last vehicle sold in the US with a carb" and somehow a couple guys
> determined it was the 1991 Subaru Justy.

That's about right.  Subaru had some really funky carbs.
>
> Honda has engine management down so well, my 2006 Acura RSX doesn't even
> have an EGR valve :) No pollution controls on the thing other than the
> cat'. Makes for a nice clean engine compartment; 200HP from 122 cubes
> is cool, as is 11:1 compression on pump gas. In fact, it has the fewest
> smog devices of any car I've ever owned, and that's going back to a 1973
> Olds Cutlass.

It's got oxygen sensors.  It's got EVAP stuff.  And it's got that computer.
-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From jem at milleredp.com  Sun Sep 16 19:38:07 2007
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:38:07 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>
	<46EDCDF0.8030608@xxiii.com>
	<2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EDDA7F.6050601@milleredp.com>

> That's about right.  Subaru had some really funky carbs.
>> Honda has engine management down so well, my 2006 Acura RSX doesn't even
>> have an EGR valve :) No pollution controls on the thing other than the
>> cat'. Makes for a nice clean engine compartment; 200HP from 122 cubes
>> is cool, as is 11:1 compression on pump gas. In fact, it has the fewest
>> smog devices of any car I've ever owned, and that's going back to a 1973
>> Olds Cutlass.
> 
> It's got oxygen sensors.  It's got EVAP stuff.  And it's got that computer.

Yeah, depends on what you consider a 'smog device'.  I can't think of 
any car I've seen that's got VVT that's still got an external EGR valve 
- variable cam timing allows for ECU-driven 'internal EGR'.  In fact, 
that's how Ford cost-justified VVT on the Focus.

My E39 M5 has 11:1 static compression, but once again variable cam 
timing so the actual in-the-cylinder compression pressure at any given 
RPM and load can be diddled somewhat by the ECU.  The new Audi RS6 uses 
10.5:1 static CR on its 5-liter V10 - and twin turbos.

Is a low-permeabilty fuel hose or intake-tract rubber boot to meet evap 
standards (which are the tough ones to meet these days, apparently) a 
'smog device'?  How 'bout the charcoal filter under the air filter on 
current 5- and 6-series V8 Bimmers, once again for evap?  IIRC Steve 
Dinan says it's worth 10+HP on those cars just to remove the charcoal 
filter.

John.

From rgriff at cableone.net  Sun Sep 16 19:59:31 2007
From: rgriff at cableone.net (Ron Griffith)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:59:31 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hydraulic jack failure
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net><1136.98.200.58.82.1189974295.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>
	<2400a5d40709161447l39713fa5qee2ea2f294ed4bc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <037a01c7f8ce$641e3080$6401a8c0@RON>

I lost the saddle and the saddle cushion on mine while carrying it on my 
trailer.  I called the number in the manual to check on replacements.  The 
person I spoke to was very knowledgeable and extremely helpful.  I had 
replacement parts in less than a week at a price that was not exorbitant for 
these days.

The order info is:

Shin Fu Company of America
10939 N. Pomona Avenue
Kansas City, MO  64153
Phone:    816-891-63901
Fax:        816-448-1999

If you call they can probably tell you what's wrong, sell you the parts and 
tell you how to fix it.

Good Luck

Ron Griffith
http://elcaminocentral.com/gallery-album_rgriffs-71-SS-Clone.html

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Scheidt" <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
To: "Lee Daniels" <lee at automate-it.com>
Cc: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Hydraulic jack failure


> On 9/16/07, Lee Daniels <lee at automate-it.com> wrote:
>> I have a medium-duty hydraulic jack (Chinese), labelled "Roush Racing"
>> although that has little to do with it. It has a "quick-lift" action when
>> there is no load, i.e. one quick stroke will bring it up to the lifting
>> surface, then once the load is on it goes into normal lifting mode. 
>> Except
>> today it still works in quick-lift mode but won't do anything once it's
>> loaded.
>>
>> The timing was impeccable; put the car up on stands and when it was time 
>> to
>> bring it down, I couldn't lift the car off the stands. Bummer.
>>
>
> Be glad you put it on stands!
>
> It's been my experience that you fix a jack like this by buying a new
> one.  My experience with Chinese-made floor jacks has been dreadful.
> They seem to last about 10 uses.
>
> -- 
> David Scheidt
> dmscheidt at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> rgriff at cableone.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sun Sep 16 20:05:05 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:05:05 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cars, EFi, snog controls and what not
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>	
	<46EDCDF0.8030608@xxiii.com>
	<2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EDE0D1.6020300@xxiii.com>

David Scheidt wrote:
> On 9/16/07, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
>> Honda has engine management down so well, my 2006 Acura RSX doesn't even
>> have an EGR valve :) No pollution controls on the thing other than the
[snip]
> It's got oxygen sensors.  It's got EVAP stuff.  And it's got that computer.

Oohh... I forgot about the EVAP stuff.  I've never seen it but I'm sure 
it's on there now that you mention it.  Grandma'a 1967 Buick had it 
too...  at least it's harmless performance wise, and if it keeps the air 
clean, I'm cool with that.  Must qualify as some of the earliest smog 
control.

I consider O2 sensors to be "sensors" and and not pollution controls, 
but some might disagree.  They're there to let the computer do its job, 
not to clean up after its short comings.  And for the computer -- I like 
the things!  But I've been an electronics guy all my life.  Worked as a 
computer tech in high school, got a little of a BSEE and got into IT as 
a backup career.  I've had a lot of EFI cars, and I can maintain them 
and hot-rod them quite well.  Every carb I've ever touched goes to shit, 
however  :(

Something really cool that even a lot of motor-heads fail to appreciate 
is just how dang' reliable modern cars are!  I'm 41 and as a kid in the 
1970s I remember going on family trips and seeing broken down cars all 
along the interstate.  A good portion were due to belt and hose 
failures.  How often do those things fail nowadays?  HARDLY EVER! 
Yeaaah!  Apparently the materials technology has just gotten That Good. 
  I tried to buy radiator hoses for a 1993 Nissan Sentra a few years 
ago;  the original ones were still pliable, but it had a lot of miles 
and I was trying to preemptively fix failure prone parts.  Auto Zone did 
not even stock hoses for this very common car!  Apparently the things 
dont't break enough for them to bother.

I think it's nuts to hear guys gripe "you can't work on modern cars". 
#1  yes, you can, it's not that tough.  #2  You don't have to all that 
often!!

   -Wayne

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sun Sep 16 20:45:18 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:45:18 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <46EDDA7F.6050601@milleredp.com>
References: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>
	<46EDCDF0.8030608@xxiii.com>
	<2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EDDA7F.6050601@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <46EDEA3E.4030303@xxiii.com>

John Miller wrote:
> Yeah, depends on what you consider a 'smog device'.  I can't think of 
> any car I've seen that's got VVT that's still got an external EGR valve 
> - variable cam timing allows for ECU-driven 'internal EGR'.  In fact, 
> that's how Ford cost-justified VVT on the Focus.

Oh really?!  That's cool.  I was wondering how common that was.  15 
years ago we had engines with 2 position hi/lo cam timing, and more 
sophisticated stuff seems to be more and more common.  My Acura has 50 
degrees of infinitely variable timing on the intake and the VTEC big 
cam/little cam on the fly switching.  And BMW has some even fancier 
hardware.

> My E39 M5 has 11:1 static compression, but once again variable cam 

Sweet Car!!  What year ya' got?  I really kick myself for not getting an 
E36 M3 back in the day.  All the used ones I've looked at are "rode hard 
& put away wet."  I'm really looking forward to the 1-series htat's 
suppposed to be coming out -- correct wheel drive, killer engines, low nass!

> The new Audi RS6 uses10.5:1 static CR on its 5-liter V10 - and twin turbos

Yeah, that's freakin' crazy!!  Remember 1980s turbo engines with like 
7:0 compression, "because it has forced induction" hahahha!  I think the 
new BMW 335 is also 10-something.

   -Wayne

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Sun Sep 16 21:40:08 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:40:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <013601c7f88a$0cdc2dc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<3.0.5.32.20070916122134.00ac5bc8@pop.east.cox.net>
	<013601c7f88a$0cdc2dc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709162338250.8402@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, Mike Frerichs wrote:
> I have what is probably the same stainless steel unit, but from Sam's 
> Club. The top and bottom together are 61" tall, 41" wide, and 18" deep, 
> not including side and front handles.  It's fairly heavy duty, comes 
> with a pre-cut rubber mesh material for the drawer bottoms, and the 
> drawers glide smoothly.  I saw one in Sam's this morning for, I believe, 
> $687.  Sometimes they have an even larger set for $999.
>
> I have no interest in Sam's - in fact they tick me off frequently!  However,
> in this tool box set I am well pleased!

My dad has the Sam's toolbox.  Two things I don't like about it.

First, many of the drawers are not very tall at all.  Large wrenches in 
'stand up' wrench holders don't fit.

Second, the drawers feel a little flimsy compared to my mechanic buddies' 
'real' tool chests.

In the same price range I like the feel of the Harbor Freight one a little 
better.

Mark

From mikey at b2systems.com  Sun Sep 16 21:53:51 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:53:51 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709162338250.8402@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<3.0.5.32.20070916122134.00ac5bc8@pop.east.cox.net>
	<013601c7f88a$0cdc2dc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0709162338250.8402@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070916204631.04d2bb60@b2systems.com>

>First, many of the drawers are not very tall at all.  Large wrenches in
>'stand up' wrench holders don't fit.

  Interesting point of view, when I had my tool box made, I went with 
as many drawers as I could get not more than 1 1/2" tall (or is that 
deep?) because wrenches and sockets and screwdrivers are not very 
tall and I felt you end up wasting lots of space.  I had them make it 
with 3  1" tall drawers, 2 1 1/2" drawers and then one 4 1/4" tall 
and the last one is 7" for the other stuff.   I have never regreted 
it, all my sockets, wrenches, screwdriver, pliers, all that stuff 
fits in the 1" or 1 1/2" tall drawers and I have much more stuff in 
this tool box than I ever could in my Sears boxes.    The bigger 
stuff is the stuff I use rarely so I have no problem with it on the 
bottom 2 drawers.

  But then again I don't use wrench holders they are just neatly 
organized laying flat in the drawers.

         mike

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From wmgilroy at gmail.com  Sun Sep 16 22:07:31 2007
From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:07:31 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Hydraulic jack failure
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709161447l39713fa5qee2ea2f294ed4bc1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<1136.98.200.58.82.1189974295.squirrel@www.automate-it.com>
	<2400a5d40709161447l39713fa5qee2ea2f294ed4bc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <441250190709162107m4587ea93wab6f4ea132ee0ab0@mail.gmail.com>

If you decide on replacing the jack I recommend an AC Jack,
http://www.ultimategarage.com/ach-overview.html They are well made and I
trust they will last a long time.  NFI I just have one and I am a happy
customer.


On 9/16/07, David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's been my experience that you fix a jack like this by buying a new
> one.  My experience with Chinese-made floor jacks has been dreadful.
> They seem to last about 10 uses.

From wmgilroy at gmail.com  Sun Sep 16 22:15:43 2007
From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:15:43 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070911180304.04ce8838@b2systems.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
	<006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070911180304.04ce8838@b2systems.com>
Message-ID: <441250190709162115k535d201erf7d07bd0fc145afe@mail.gmail.com>

I used a regular wall oven.  It is a good size but I cannot do an axle.
What is the size of the oven you have and where did it come from or where
did you get that monster?

On 9/11/07, Mike Rambour <mikey at b2systems.com> wrote:
>
> ...now I just slide the axle in the oven go have a drink and
> come back a few hours later after the oven has shut off and cooled.




I like to do it all myself, that is why I call it my hobby, my
> hobby is not taking a car apart and having someone else fix it...I
> have made money with the big oven also but its still a long ways from
> being paid for :)
>
>         mike
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Mike Rambour
> Bug Writer err...Programmer
>       mikey at b2systems.com
> **********************************************************************
> If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
> then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> _______________________________________________
> wmgilroy at gmail.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From mikey at b2systems.com  Sun Sep 16 22:47:57 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:47:57 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <441250190709162115k535d201erf7d07bd0fc145afe@mail.gmail.co
  m>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
	<006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070911180304.04ce8838@b2systems.com>
	<441250190709162115k535d201erf7d07bd0fc145afe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070916214046.04d1ba38@b2systems.com>

   I got it from Eastwoods and its inside dimentions are 3ft X 3ft X 
3ft so for the British car world I play in I can get a axle in at a 
45degree, I would much rather have had their next size up but I could 
not afford the amp draw in the garage.  As I mentioned, I had the 
plans to build one that was 5ft long and would have fit American car 
axles but it did not have enough information on the electricals to 
make me confident enough that I could succeed, the building part 
would have been easy, but so was just ordering it :)  We are all 
allowed a once in a lifetime stupid purchase and I don't regret this 
one at all.

         mike

At 09:15 PM 9/16/2007, Bill Gilroy wrote:
>I used a regular wall oven.  It is a good size but I cannot do an 
>axle.  What is the size of the oven you have and where did it come 
>from or where did you get that monster?
>
>On 9/11/07, Mike Rambour 
><<mailto:mikey at b2systems.com>mikey at b2systems.com> wrote:
>...now I just slide the axle in the oven go have a drink and
>come back a few hours later after the oven has shut off and cooled.
>
>
>
>
>I like to do it all myself, that is why I call it my hobby, my
>hobby is not taking a car apart and having someone else fix it...I
>have made money with the big oven also but its still a long ways from
>being paid for :)
>
>         mike
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Mike Rambour
>Bug Writer err...Programmer
>       <mailto:mikey at b2systems.com>mikey at b2systems.com
>**********************************************************************
>If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
>then take a look at   <http://www.singercars.com/>http://www.singercars.com/
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>_______________________________________________
><mailto:wmgilroy at gmail.com>wmgilroy at gmail.com
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
><http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From chad at linuxeg.com  Mon Sep 17 00:02:38 2007
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 02:02:38 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] powder coat systems
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070916214046.04d1ba38@b2systems.com>
References: <OF9F6FF93C.CA1C26AD-ON85257353.006568AF-85257353.006568B4@mail.megageek.com>
	<46E6E1AA.6000002@xxiii.com>
	<006201c7f4c3$61abd640$31631aac@behavioral.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070911180304.04ce8838@b2systems.com>
	<441250190709162115k535d201erf7d07bd0fc145afe@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070916214046.04d1ba38@b2systems.com>
Message-ID: <46EE187E.7060207@linuxeg.com>

There's an oven building forum at:
http://forum.caswellplating.com
I came across it when I was concidering
building a heat treating oven but "cooled"
on the idea.
chad

From jdinnis at gmail.com  Mon Sep 17 07:30:26 2007
From: jdinnis at gmail.com (John Innis)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:30:26 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cars, EFi, snog controls and what not
In-Reply-To: <46EDE0D1.6020300@xxiii.com>
References: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>
	<46EDCDF0.8030608@xxiii.com>
	<2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EDE0D1.6020300@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <abb8688a0709170630v62fa37cbrc9b61e6c299db47@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, when I read your subject line, I thought this was going to be a
very different post.  If you are asking about "snog controls" you must
have a teenage daughter.
-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Mon Sep 17 08:22:33 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:22:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] tool chest recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070916204631.04d2bb60@b2systems.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709161135500.16726@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<3.0.5.32.20070916122134.00ac5bc8@pop.east.cox.net>
	<013601c7f88a$0cdc2dc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0709162338250.8402@mephisto.banklogic.net>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070916204631.04d2bb60@b2systems.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709171020460.2310@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, Mike Rambour wrote:
> Interesting point of view, when I had my tool box made, I went with as 
> many drawers as I could get not more than 1 1/2" tall (or is that deep?) 
> because wrenches and sockets and screwdrivers are not very tall and I 
> felt you end up wasting lots of space.  I had them make it with 3 1" 
> tall drawers, 2 1 1/2" drawers and then one 4 1/4" tall and the last one 
> is 7" for the other stuff. I have never regreted it, all my sockets, 
> wrenches, screwdriver, pliers, all that stuff fits in the 1" or 1 1/2" 
> tall drawers and I have much more stuff in this tool box than I ever 
> could in my Sears boxes.  The bigger stuff is the stuff I use rarely so 
> I have no problem with it on the bottom 2 drawers.
>
> But then again I don't use wrench holders they are just neatly organized 
> laying flat in the drawers.

For me, "neatly organized, laying flat in the drawers" lasts about one day 
after I setup the toolbox initially... :-)  I need the wrench holders to 
even have a hope of getting it right.

Also, I'm jealous of my one buddy's standup / peg socket holder with the 
size on the top of the peg!

Mark

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Mon Sep 17 10:28:33 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 12:28:33 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Cars, EFi, smog controls and what not
In-Reply-To: <abb8688a0709170630v62fa37cbrc9b61e6c299db47@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>	
	<46EDCDF0.8030608@xxiii.com>	
	<2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>	
	<46EDE0D1.6020300@xxiii.com>
	<abb8688a0709170630v62fa37cbrc9b61e6c299db47@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EEAB31.2050900@xxiii.com>

John Innis wrote:
> Wow, when I read your subject line, I thought this was going to be a
> very different post.  If you are asking about "snog controls" you must
> have a teenage daughter.

HaHaHa!!  I'd never heard "snog" before;  had to consult UrbanDictionary.com  :)  Sorry for the typo & REAL glad I do not have a teenage daughter!

  -Wayne

From doug at dougbraun.com  Mon Sep 17 11:57:13 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

While we're on the subject, does anybody know when was
the last car sold with:

1: A flathead engine?

2: No full-flow oil filter?

3: Mechanical brakes?

4: Front drum brakes?

5: No power brakes?

In a few years, we can ask about manually-cranked
windows...

Doug



--- David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/16/07, Wayne <wmc_st at xxiii.com> wrote:
> > malaboge at aol.com wrote:
>> 
> > Actually, I brought the topic up on another
> mailing list -- "what was
> > the last vehicle sold in the US with a carb" and
> somehow a couple guys
> > determined it was the 1991 Subaru Justy.
> 
> That's about right.  Subaru had some really funky
> carbs.

From rs1121 at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 17 13:24:47 2007
From: rs1121 at earthlink.net (Ron Schmittou)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:24:47 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
	<37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c7f960$6935f930$3ba1eb90$@net>

My 56 chevy truck that has been in the family for 3 generations has no oil
filter, drum brakes, 3 on the tree shifting, oil bath air filter, and of
course hand crank windows - runs like a champ to, even with the original
ignition system.  The great thing is the throttle pull on the dash - the
original cruise control!!

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+rs1121=earthlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+rs1121=earthlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Doug Braun
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 12:57 PM
To: David Scheidt; Wayne
Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!

While we're on the subject, does anybody know when was
the last car sold with:

1: A flathead engine?

2: No full-flow oil filter?

3: Mechanical brakes?

4: Front drum brakes?

5: No power brakes?

In a few years, we can ask about manually-cranked
windows...

Doug

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Mon Sep 17 14:14:53 2007
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:14:53 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
	<37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7975E8D95@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

Doug Braun wrote:

> 1: A flathead engine?

I'd bet it was a Jeep.  I have no idea what year however.

> 4: Front drum brakes?

I believe that disk brakes were an option on early Pintos, say around
72/73.  No one knows if any actually left the factory without disks, but
they were an option.

> 5: No power brakes?

My '72 Lotus Elan does not have power brakes (but it does have power
windows...)


Tim Mullen

Chantilly, VA

From frerichs at tconl.com  Mon Sep 17 14:42:49 2007
From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:42:49 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7975E8D95@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
References: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com><37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7975E8D95@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
Message-ID: <01b101c7f96b$51f24fc0$6701a8c0@proteus457>

My '79 VW Rabbit Diesel did not have power brakes.  Not enough vacuum to run
a booster.  Some versions (not mine) came from the factory with a gear
driven vacuum pump bolted to the block.  So when I wanted to add an
aftermarket cruise control, which used vacuum to run the servo, I had to go
to the salvage yard and find a pump from a higher-end model.

Mike Frerichs


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mullen, Tim
> 
> > 5: No power brakes?
> 
> My '72 Lotus Elan does not have power brakes (but it does have power
> windows...)

From doug at dougbraun.com  Mon Sep 17 14:42:12 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7975E8D95@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
Message-ID: <530457.749.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I once had a (crap) '76 AMC Hornet without power
brakes.  It also had no power steering, but one day I
went to the junkyard, pulled the power steering
gearbox, pump, etc. off a junker and installed it on
my car.

--- "Mullen, Tim" <Tim.Mullen at ngc.com> wrote:

> > 5: No power brakes?
> 
> My '72 Lotus Elan does not have power brakes (but it
> does have power
> windows...)

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Mon Sep 17 14:49:57 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:49:57 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
	<37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02b401c7f96c$4eae04c0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> 2: No full-flow oil filter?

My 62 Chevy was the last one I know of.  Supposedly, even the bypass filter
was optional !

No power anything and front drums, but that was common in 62.  Had one of
those "solid state" radios that had to warm up, too.  (Only the audio output
stage was solid state, all the other stages used tubes.)

Randall

From hillman at planet-torque.com  Mon Sep 17 15:00:07 2007
From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:00:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Doug Braun wrote:
> While we're on the subject, does anybody know when was
> the last car sold with:
>
> 1: A flathead engine?
> 2: No full-flow oil filter?
> 3: Mechanical brakes?
> 4: Front drum brakes?
> 5: No power brakes?
>
> In a few years, we can ask about manually-cranked windows...

    I think we can already talk about non-power steering.  Everything seems 
to have PS now, whether or not it's necessary.  The cream of that crop 
being the Toyota MR Spyder, weighing a whopping 2100 pounds, with the 
motor in the back, running 185 front tires, and *still* having 
power-steering.

--
  David Hillman

From pete at partnercomm.com  Mon Sep 17 15:10:06 2007
From: pete at partnercomm.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:10:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0709171708520.29750-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>

The 2005 Lotus Elise does not have power steering.

Tim, do you concur?

-Peter

--
Peter Murray (N3IXY)
Oak Hill, VA

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, David Hillman wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Doug Braun wrote:
> > While we're on the subject, does anybody know when was
> > the last car sold with:
> >
> > 1: A flathead engine?
> > 2: No full-flow oil filter?
> > 3: Mechanical brakes?
> > 4: Front drum brakes?
> > 5: No power brakes?
> >
> > In a few years, we can ask about manually-cranked windows...
> 
>     I think we can already talk about non-power steering.  Everything seems 
> to have PS now, whether or not it's necessary.  The cream of that crop 
> being the Toyota MR Spyder, weighing a whopping 2100 pounds, with the 
> motor in the back, running 185 front tires, and *still* having 
> power-steering.
> 
> --
>   David Hillman
> _______________________________________________
> pete at partnercomm.com
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Mon Sep 17 15:15:17 2007
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:15:17 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <ea2385360709171415x333bf0f4hf5b417d3742088e2@mail.gmail.com>

*No oil filter on a '74 VW Beetle.*
*Tony*


On 9/17/07, David Hillman <hillman at planet-torque.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Doug Braun wrote:
> > While we're on the subject, does anybody know when was
> > the last car sold with:
> >
> > 1: A flathead engine?
> > 2: No full-flow oil filter?
> > 3: Mechanical brakes?
> > 4: Front drum brakes?
> > 5: No power brakes?
> >
> > In a few years, we can ask about manually-cranked windows...
>
>    I think we can already talk about non-power steering.  Everything seems
> to have PS now, whether or not it's necessary.  The cream of that crop
> being the Toyota MR Spyder, weighing a whopping 2100 pounds, with the
> motor in the back, running 185 front tires, and *still* having
> power-steering.
>
> --
> David Hillman
> _______________________________________________
> eltonclark at gmail.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Mon Sep 17 15:20:22 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:20:22 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0709171708520.29750-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>
References: <20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0709171708520.29750-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>
Message-ID: <02b501c7f970$8ebe5480$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> The 2005 Lotus Elise does not have power steering.

True, but it does have power brakes and air conditioning.

Randall

From rs1121 at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 17 15:30:37 2007
From: rs1121 at earthlink.net (Ron Schmittou)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:30:37 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360709171415x333bf0f4hf5b417d3742088e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>
	<ea2385360709171415x333bf0f4hf5b417d3742088e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004301c7f971$fd901f50$f8b05df0$@net>

I forgot to mention the old secret of always raise and prop your hood if you
are parking a vehicle outside for any length of time - This keeps the meeses
from building in your engine. 

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Mon Sep 17 15:33:06 2007
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:33:06 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0709171708520.29750-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>
References: <20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0709171708520.29750-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7975E8E20@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

Peter Murray wrote:

> The 2005 Lotus Elise does not have power steering.
>
> Tim, do you concur?

Yep.  My '05 Elise (and the newer ones too) do not have power steering.


They do have power brakes (and ABS) however.  Most (but not mine) also
have power windows.

Tim Mullen

From pete at partnercomm.com  Mon Sep 17 15:41:20 2007
From: pete at partnercomm.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:41:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <02b501c7f970$8ebe5480$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0709171740150.29750-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>

It has air conditioning (and power windows, and carpet) only if you get
the Touring package.

-Peter

--
Peter Murray (N3IXY)
Oak Hill, VA

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Randall wrote:

> > The 2005 Lotus Elise does not have power steering.
> 
> True, but it does have power brakes and air conditioning.
> 
> Randall
> _______________________________________________
> pete at partnercomm.com
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Mon Sep 17 15:57:07 2007
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:57:07 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7975E8D95@XMBIL103.northgrum. com>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
	<37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070917175707.00c864f8@pop.east.cox.net>

At 03:14 PM 9/17/2007 -0500, Mullen, Tim wrote:
>> 5: No power brakes?
>
>My '72 Lotus Elan does not have power brakes (but it does have power
>windows...)

My 65 Morgan - no power brakes, no power covertable, no power/roll up windows.
Eng. comes complete with a blow by tube.

At least it has front disk brakes and an oil filter. There is an electric
motor for windshield wipers, but they are worth a darn.  Thank God for 
Rain-X.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com  Mon Sep 17 15:56:04 2007
From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:56:04 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0709171740150.29750-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>
References: <02b501c7f970$8ebe5480$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0709171740150.29750-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>
Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7975E8E38@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>

Peter Murray wrote:
>
> It has air conditioning (and power windows, and
> carpet) only if you get the Touring package.

Close.  They all come with "so called" air conditioning unless you opt
to pay extra for the "Air Conditioning Delete".

All US spec Elise have floor mats (carpets), but the Touring Package
gets additional carpet under the seats and part way up the side rails
(which often has a tendency to fall off).  The Touring Package also
includes all leather seats and door panels (in choice of several
colors), padding on the inside of the soft top, a "cargo net" on the
rear bulkhead between the seats, and some foam "sound deadening under
the interior panels.  Oh yea, a different "upgraded" radio...

If you have one of the few that doesn't have the Touring Package (like
mine) you get black cloth seats (with leather trim), nice bare aluminum
exposed side sills, and beautiful aluminum window cranks instead of the
ugly power window push buttons.

Tim Mullen

From doug at dougbraun.com  Mon Sep 17 16:57:20 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:57:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070917175707.00c864f8@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <805762.36145.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Oops, i forgot to include in my list:

The last car with a vacuum wiper motor.


(I think some '70s AMC product still had them.)

Doug


--- "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net> wrote:

> At least it has front disk brakes and an oil filter.
> There is an electric
> motor for windshield wipers, but they are worth a
> darn.  Thank God for 
> Rain-X.

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Mon Sep 17 17:33:12 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:33:12 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com>
Message-ID: <46EF0EB8.9050103@xxiii.com>

David Hillman wrote:
>     I think we can already talk about non-power steering.  Everything seems 
> to have PS now, whether or not it's necessary.  The cream of that crop 

Miatas were commonly available with out PS.  My 1984 Honda Accord (< 
1900 lbs) didn't have it.

That Accord was a great FWD "trainer"!  Really good feedback through the 
manual steering, and very low grip limits that forced me how to figure 
out making the most of FWD handling, rather than letting a torquy engine 
and sticky tires (eg:  my SE-R) pull the car around despite lousy 
driving technique.

   -Wayne

From bobkegel at seanet.com  Mon Sep 17 17:49:33 2007
From: bobkegel at seanet.com (Bob Kegel)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:49:33 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <8C9C6CFDFFCD317-CCC-6609@webmail-de01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <000301c7f985$69fa33c0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01>

Apparently automotive wiring is quite attractive to another rodent, the
marten, to the point that Germans build and buy devices to repel the beast.

Presenting: the Kemo M111 "Marten Shock for Motor Vehicles"
http://www.kemo-electronic.com/pdf/m111/m111.pdf  (scroll down for English)

"If now the marten touches the car chassis or the motor unit with the hind
paws and at the same time the metal plates which have been fixed isolated
with the snout or front paws, it gets an electric shock. After that the
high-voltage capacitor in the module is discharged and it will take a short
time until the capacitor is charged again. During this period the marten has
the possibility to leave the car in a hurry. The shock does not cause a
continuous muscular cramp which might kill the animal. Upon each contact
with the high-voltage the animal only receives one shock, not several shocks
one after the other! That's why the animal has the possibility to run away."

Bob Kegel
Aberdeen, WA

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Mon Sep 17 18:56:51 2007
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:56:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <805762.36145.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <3.0.5.32.20070917175707.00c864f8@pop.east.cox.net>
	<805762.36145.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ea2385360709171756g492c7797l3278135a6a79c354@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/17/07, Doug Braun <doug at dougbraun.com> wrote:
>
> >>Oops, i forgot to include in my list: The last car with a vacuum wiper
> motor.<<
>
>
> Sooner or later, when auto anomalies get discussed, the Citroen 2CV always
> come up:


Some of the early ones drove the wipers with a little gearbox on an
extension of the speedometer cable.   Slow down, they nearly stopped; drive
like 'ell, and they wiped like crazy!

One could remove both front fenders for access to the drive train with one's
lug wrench.
The engine hood slid off sideways with NO tools.

The total suspension system consisted of only two springs but ten shock
absorber devices.

Up thru '67 at least, the cars had no vee-belts even though they were
air-cooled and had generators.

The front seat weighed eleven pounds, was extremely comfortable, and turning
one knob released it for outside duty at picnics, etc.

It only weighed about 1200 pounds and had eleven inches of suspension
travel:

     one could drive over a 4 inch curb with no damage and little effect to
passengers.
     A headlight adjuster crank-knob was present on the dash because, if you
loaded someone in the back seat, your light were in the trees.

The Citroen 2CV was French, you know . .

Tony

From herby at herbytoys.com  Mon Sep 17 19:23:32 2007
From: herby at herbytoys.com (Herby)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:23:32 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7975E8D95@XMBIL103.northgrum.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c7f992$89dd4670$6601a8c0@HERBYZ>

> 4: Front drum brakes?

>I believe that disk brakes were an option on early Pintos, say around
>72/73.  No one knows if any actually left the factory without disks, but
>they were an option.

I can vouch for that. My 71 1600cc Pinto had front drums. Found it a problem
when I tried to put Capri Rostyles on it (the wheel spokes hit the drum
weights). I don't think any of the 2000cc ones ever had drums though.

Herby
63 MKII Sprite (Herbytoy - patiently waiting)
62 MKII Sprite (the "resto-mod" driver)
00 Dakota R/T (the new toy)
herby at herbytoys.com
www.herbytoys.com

From jibjib at att.net  Mon Sep 17 19:47:10 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:47:10 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070917175707.00c864f8@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com><37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20070917175707.00c864f8@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <035301c7f995$d5097a80$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

>My 65 Morgan - no power brakes, no power convertible, 
>no power/roll up windows.
>Eng. comes complete with a blow by tube.

C'mon John, that's not fair. . . . Consider the vintage.

Heck, I don't have any of that either and rollup. . . . Heck, my Triumph
TR3's windows are in the boot (trunk)! 

BTW - That's a fine working blow by tube too.

Jack
TR's 3 & 8

From koblinger at verizon.net  Mon Sep 17 19:57:08 2007
From: koblinger at verizon.net (Kurt Oblinger)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:57:08 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <035301c7f995$d5097a80$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com><37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20070917175707.00c864f8@pop.east.cox.net>
	<035301c7f995$d5097a80$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <46EF3074.7030905@verizon.net>

My '54 Triumph TR2 does not have outside doorhandles or the optional 
heater, but hey, I live in California!

Cheers,
Kurt Oblinger
Redondo Beach, Ca.


Jack Brooks wrote:

>>My 65 Morgan - no power brakes, no power convertible, 
>>no power/roll up windows.
>>Eng. comes complete with a blow by tube.
>>    
>>
>
>C'mon John, that's not fair. . . . Consider the vintage.
>
>Heck, I don't have any of that either and rollup. . . . Heck, my Triumph
>TR3's windows are in the boot (trunk)! 
>
>BTW - That's a fine working blow by tube too.
>
>Jack
>TR's 3 & 8
>_______________________________________________
>koblinger at verizon.net
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From rs1121 at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 18 08:21:00 2007
From: rs1121 at earthlink.net (Ron Schmittou)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:21:00 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <46EF0EB8.9050103@xxiii.com>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com> <46EF0EB8.9050103@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <012701c7f9ff$27de3840$779aa8c0$@net>

I can't believe I just saw an ad for the new quad runner - With POWER
STEERING?? On a 4 wheeler?

I guess they will have it on bikes next, an auto lean feature - Yikes.

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+rs1121=earthlink.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+rs1121=earthlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Wayne
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 6:33 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!

David Hillman wrote:
>     I think we can already talk about non-power steering.  Everything
seems 
> to have PS now, whether or not it's necessary.  The cream of that crop 

From paul.mele at usermail.com  Tue Sep 18 08:27:52 2007
From: paul.mele at usermail.com (Paul Mele)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:27:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <012701c7f9ff$27de3840$779aa8c0$@net>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com> <46EF0EB8.9050103@xxiii.com>
	<012701c7f9ff$27de3840$779aa8c0$@net>
Message-ID: <000001c7fa00$1a2ded70$4e89c850$@mele@usermail.com>

I think they're working on A/C first....

<I can't believe I just saw an ad for the new quad runner - With POWER
STEERING?? On a 4 wheeler?

I guess they will have it on bikes next, an auto lean feature - Yikes.>

From mikey at b2systems.com  Tue Sep 18 10:29:31 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:29:31 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <000001c7fa00$1a2ded70$4e89c850$@mele@usermail.com>
References: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20070917165229.F43696@itonami.pair.com> <46EF0EB8.9050103@xxiii.com>
	<012701c7f9ff$27de3840$779aa8c0$@net>
	<000001c7fa00$1a2ded70$4e89c850$@mele@usermail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070918092619.05a94790@b2systems.com>

  Wasn't it Honda that experimented with Air Bags on their bike ? 
most likely the GoldWing, I remember reading they were going to be 
available but never heard of them after and I don't remember the 
brand right now.

   I would think the way many people ride, what is really needed is a 
"auto upright" so they won't be afraid to lean the bike over on the 
curves since it will always come back up...Think of the marketing 
possibilities when they invent that one (never mind that mother 
nature already did)

At 07:27 AM 9/18/2007, Paul Mele wrote:
>I think they're working on A/C first....
>
><I can't believe I just saw an ad for the new quad runner - With POWER
>STEERING?? On a 4 wheeler?
>
>I guess they will have it on bikes next, an auto lean feature - Yikes.>
>_______________________________________________
>mikey at b2systems.com
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From pethier at comcast.net  Tue Sep 18 11:56:09 2007
From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:56:09 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
Message-ID: <091820071756.7261.46F01138000E3BA900001C5D22007589429D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Mullen, Tim" <Tim.Mullen at ngc.com>
> Doug Braun wrote:
> 
> > 1: A flathead engine?
> 
> I'd bet it was a Jeep.  I have no idea what year however.

As I recall, my 1965 Rambler American had a flathead 6 engine and a Ford automatic trans.  It was a MUCH better car than my 1958 Rambler wagon with the OHV 6 engine and manual trans.

> 
> > 4: Front drum brakes?
> 
> I believe that disk brakes were an option on early Pintos, say around
> 72/73.  No one knows if any actually left the factory without disks, but
> they were an option.

In 1975 I bought my first new car.  A VW Rabbit (Golf to you folks across the pond) Custom.  There were three trim levels in the Rabbit for 1975, with three different types of brakes.

Basic = front drum brakes
Custom = front disk brakes
Deluxe = power disk brakes ( and a ridiculous restraint system with a shoulder belt attached to the door, a padded knee-bar under the dash and NO LAP BELT)

--
Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net    http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.

From nick at landform.co.uk  Tue Sep 18 13:00:34 2007
From: nick at landform.co.uk (Nick Brearley)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:00:34 +0100
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
	<37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070918195505.02259368@yahoo.co.uk>

At 18:57 17/09/2007, Doug Braun wrote:
>While we're on the subject, does anybody know when was
>the last car sold with:
>
>1: A flathead engine?

How about a Ford flathead V8 in a French Simca made in Brazil by 
Chrysler in the early 70s?

As always Google is your friend...

See  http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/french.htm

That's today's something new learnt.

Nick Brearley 

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Tue Sep 18 16:33:17 2007
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:33:17 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <46EF3074.7030905@verizon.net>
References: <035301c7f995$d5097a80$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
	<37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2400a5d40709161758y33b5a974s4984ed5d7472587c@mail.gmail.com>
	<37445.90064.qm@web602.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3.0.5.32.20070917175707.00c864f8@pop.east.cox.net>
	<035301c7f995$d5097a80$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070918183317.00c75cf8@pop.east.cox.net>

At 06:57 PM 9/17/2007 -0700, Kurt Oblinger wrote:

>My '54 Triumph TR2 does not have outside doorhandles or the optional 
>heater, but hey, I live in California!

Oh, yeah.  I forgot about that.  Outside door handles, what a concept.
The Morgan doesn't have that either.

John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From mark at nashvilletn.org  Tue Sep 18 18:59:59 2007
From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:59:59 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
Message-ID: <028b01c7fa58$67bc53d0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>

After years of using a pan on the floor to wash parts I have decided to go 
buy an inexpensive parts washer.  I thought I had one all picked out until I 
read that the pump is specified as follows: "110V/60Hz water based solvent 
pump".  Does this mean that it might/will ignite a solvent based washer 
medium?  I have been using mineral spirits for years and don't want to burn 
down my garage, cars or me.  Maybe it is just the lawyers covering their 
a$$.

Your inputs appreciated and I hereby agree to hold all harmless for their 
comments!

Mark
Nashville
http://www.arrestmered.com 

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Tue Sep 18 19:13:20 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:13:20 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <028b01c7fa58$67bc53d0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
References: <028b01c7fa58$67bc53d0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
Message-ID: <003001c7fa5a$44a8eaf0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Does this mean that it might/will ignite a solvent 
> based washer 
> medium?  I have been using mineral spirits for years and 
> don't want to burn 
> down my garage, cars or me. 

More likely, IMO, the pump will be attacked by some solvents and fail early.

That's what happened to the cheapo parts washer I got from Enco some years
ago, the pump only lasted about 6 months of very intermittent use.  When I
pulled it apart, the seal had turned to goo and the plastic impellor was
eroded.

Randall

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Tue Sep 18 19:32:09 2007
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:32:09 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] parts washer
Message-ID: <001b01c7fa5c$e6057100$6401a8c0@niolon>

but there's nothing keeping you from buying a 'replacement' pump that is 
rated for solvents.  They aren't very expensive and then you can run your 
mineral spirits

john


Frame every so-called disaster with these words: "In five years... will this 
matter?" 

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Tue Sep 18 23:18:42 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:18:42 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <ea2385360709171415x333bf0f4hf5b417d3742088e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070919051750.KKZO4812.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>

> *No oil filter on a '74 VW Beetle.*

Didn't they have that weird centrifugal thing, though ?  I've only read
about Beetle motors, but my old Honda 4-stroke motorcycle had a centrifugal
filter.  Seemed to work pretty good, judging by the amount of crud that
built up in it.

Randall

From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com  Wed Sep 19 08:10:14 2007
From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:10:14 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
In-Reply-To: <20070919051750.KKZO4812.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <20070919051750.KKZO4812.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <46F12DC6.7070201@hornesystemstx.com>

The air cooled VW engines had a filter screen as an oil filter. I don't 
see how it could have been anything centrifugal, the oil came straight 
down at the middle of the filter screen and the other side of the screen 
was open to the sump. The screen was sort of  dome shaped and the oil 
inlet entered the top of the dome.

It's been decades since I had one apart, but that's how I remember it.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Randall:
>> *No oil filter on a '74 VW Beetle.*
>>     
>
> Didn't they have that weird centrifugal thing, though ?  I've only read
> about Beetle motors, but my old Honda 4-stroke motorcycle had a centrifugal
> filter.  Seemed to work pretty good, judging by the amount of crud that
> built up in it.
>
> Randall
> _______________________________________________
> roadsters at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>
>   


-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com  Wed Sep 19 08:32:31 2007
From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:32:31 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
Message-ID: <46F132FF.2060409@hornesystemstx.com>

I must have had a brain fart. The oil line is the inlet to the pump, so 
the oil goes from the sump, through the screen, and is picked up by the 
pump.

A better description of the screen is sort of a half sphere with a hole 
in it that fits the oil pickup line. The open side of the sphere is 
closed off with a plate. Oil flows in through the screen, then is sucked 
up by the pump.

My mind is like a steel trap....rusted!


Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Pat Horne:
> The air cooled VW engines had a filter screen as an oil filter. I 
> don't see how it could have been anything centrifugal, the oil came 
> straight down at the middle of the filter screen and the other side of 
> the screen was open to the sump. The screen was sort of  dome shaped 
> and the oil inlet entered the top of the dome.
>
> It's been decades since I had one apart, but that's how I remember it.
>
> Peace,
> Pat
>
> Thusly spake Randall:
>>> *No oil filter on a '74 VW Beetle.*
>>>     
>>
>> Didn't they have that weird centrifugal thing, though ?  I've only read
>> about Beetle motors, but my old Honda 4-stroke motorcycle had a 
>> centrifugal
>> filter.  Seemed to work pretty good, judging by the amount of crud that
>> built up in it.
>>
>> Randall
>> _______________________________________________
>> roadsters at hornesystemstx.com
>>
>> Shop-talk mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>>
>>
>>   
>
>
-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Wed Sep 19 09:49:02 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:49:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709191148010.31187@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

I seem to recall in the past receiving a coupon from HF for 20% off on one 
item or whatever...

Anyone know of anything like that that's currently ongoing or will be 
going soon?  I'm probably going to buy a toolbox, and 20% off would help 
that out...

Thanks!

Mark

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Wed Sep 19 13:25:53 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:25:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] long 0 deg. box wrenches
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709191511530.31724@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

So my buddy has these super cool Snap-On 0 degree long handle zero degree 
box wrenches.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=hand&item_ID=68008&group_ID=17469&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
and
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=hand&item_ID=5955&group_ID=612&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

(snap on makes these nearly impossible to find on their website btw... 
They aren't under Wrenches -->  Box / Offset / Flank Drive where you'd 
expect them to be.  They're at:  Hand Tools Index --> High Performance / 
Spline  Wrenches / Flank Drive)

Anyway, these things are awesome.  Lots of leverage.  Not so awesomely, 
they're priced like all the rest of Snap-On's tools.

So Harbor Freight has this set:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96212

But I only see it in English, and most everything I do is metric.

Gearwrench has something kinda like it:
http://www.gearwrench.com/catalog/wrenches/ratcheting/gearbox/

Those look good, except that I really kinda like having two wrenches in 
one... I'm not sure how much a really long pattern ratcheting wrench like 
this would help.

Anyway... I'm hoping someone out there has seen something like the snap-on 
or Harbor Freight wrenches above, in metric versions, for a reasonable 
amount of money.

Anyone?  Thanks!

Mark

From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 19 15:18:52 2007
From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:18:52 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709191148010.31187@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709191148010.31187@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <BAY108-W26AAA35C23A8E48BFF2A709AB90@phx.gbl>

I have a coworker who will occasionally give me a copy of one when he sees
them, I do recall seeing people post links to them on fatwallet.com, and
probably other coupon websites as well.  I bet you could google "harbor
freight coupons" and get some results.

I think they have scaled back their snail mail flyers, b/c I don't get them
anymore.

PJ> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:49:02 -0400> From: mark at sccaprepared.com> To:
shop-talk at autox.team.net> Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?>
> Howdy,> > I seem to recall in the past receiving a coupon from HF for 20%
off on one > item or whatever...> > Anyone know of anything like that that's
currently ongoing or will be > going soon? I'm probably going to buy a
toolbox, and 20% off would help > that out...> > Thanks!> > Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Can you find the hidden words?  Take a break and play Seekadoo!
http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_wlmailtextlink

From clmautz at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 15:43:22 2007
From: clmautz at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Q2hpcCBNYXV0eg==?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:43:22 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-W26AAA35C23A8E48BFF2A709AB90@phx.gbl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709191148010.31187@mephisto.banklogic.net><BAY108-W26AAA35C23A8E48BFF2A709AB90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <mailman.4.1190238227.12553.shop-talk@autox.team.net>

Check their website, I get them from there all the time.  I have both a HF and Northern tool here in the ATL, which comes in handy!


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: PJ McGarvey <pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com>

Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:18:52 
To:<shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?


I have a coworker who will occasionally give me a copy of one when he sees
them, I do recall seeing people post links to them on fatwallet.com, and
probably other coupon websites as well.  I bet you could google "harbor
freight coupons" and get some results.

I think they have scaled back their snail mail flyers, b/c I don't get them
anymore.

PJ> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:49:02 -0400> From: mark at sccaprepared.com> To:
shop-talk at autox.team.net> Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?>
> Howdy,> > I seem to recall in the past receiving a coupon from HF for 20%
off on one > item or whatever...> > Anyone know of anything like that that's
currently ongoing or will be > going soon? I'm probably going to buy a
toolbox, and 20% off would help > that out...> > Thanks!> > Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Can you find the hidden words?  Take a break and play Seekadoo!
http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_wlmailtextlink
_______________________________________________
clmautz at gmail.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Wed Sep 19 19:54:21 2007
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:54:21 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <003001c7fa5a$44a8eaf0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
References: <028b01c7fa58$67bc53d0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
	<003001c7fa5a$44a8eaf0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <46F1D2CD.7010602@comcast.net>

Aren't there some good cleaning agents that are water-soluble.  Agitene or Super 
Agitene sticks in my mind.

Donald.

Randall wrote:
>> Does this mean that it might/will ignite a solvent 
>> based washer 
>> medium?  I have been using mineral spirits for years and 
>> don't want to burn 
>> down my garage, cars or me. 
> 
> More likely, IMO, the pump will be attacked by some solvents and fail early.
> 
> That's what happened to the cheapo parts washer I got from Enco some years
> ago, the pump only lasted about 6 months of very intermittent use.  When I
> pulled it apart, the seal had turned to goo and the plastic impellor was
> eroded.
> 
> Randall

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Wed Sep 19 21:01:26 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:01:26 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <46F1D2CD.7010602@comcast.net>
References: <003001c7fa5a$44a8eaf0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<028b01c7fa58$67bc53d0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
	<003001c7fa5a$44a8eaf0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070919195725.03223a58@incoming.verizon.net>

Agitene and Super Agitene are petroleum based according to their 
MSDS.  Graymills does make a product call Aquatine and Super Aquatine that 
are water soluble, but given the cost of the regular stuff, the water based 
stuff is probably NASA-spec priced.

I have regular (I think) Agitene in my HF parts washer.  When it's finally 
too nasty to use I plan to replace it with regular mineral spirits/paint 
thinner, unless I can find a distributor that sells bulk Varsol or 
something like it.

Dave C

At 09:54 PM  9/19/2007  -0400, Donald H Locker wrote:
>Aren't there some good cleaning agents that are water-soluble.  Agitene or 
>Super
>Agitene sticks in my mind.
>
>Donald.
>
>Randall wrote:
> >> Does this mean that it might/will ignite a solvent
> >> based washer
> >> medium?  I have been using mineral spirits for years and
> >> don't want to burn
> >> down my garage, cars or me.
> >
> > More likely, IMO, the pump will be attacked by some solvents and fail 
> early.
> >
> > That's what happened to the cheapo parts washer I got from Enco some years
> > ago, the pump only lasted about 6 months of very intermittent use.  When I
> > pulled it apart, the seal had turned to goo and the plastic impellor was
> > eroded.
> >
> > Randall
>_______________________________________________
>cavanadd at verizon.net
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From jem at milleredp.com  Wed Sep 19 21:41:04 2007
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:41:04 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <46F1D2CD.7010602@comcast.net>
References: <028b01c7fa58$67bc53d0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
	<003001c7fa5a$44a8eaf0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<46F1D2CD.7010602@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46F1EBD0.50506@milleredp.com>

Donald H Locker wrote:
> Aren't there some good cleaning agents that are water-soluble.  Agitene or Super 
> Agitene sticks in my mind.

Are you thinking of Biotene?

John.

From eltonclark at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 21:56:26 2007
From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:56:26 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070919195725.03223a58@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <028b01c7fa58$67bc53d0$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
	<003001c7fa5a$44a8eaf0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>
	<46F1D2CD.7010602@comcast.net>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20070919195725.03223a58@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <ea2385360709192056g59e20bb6u1e437ca8e46e8a58@mail.gmail.com>

David wrote:

I have regular (I think) Agitene in my HF parts washer.  When it's finally
too nasty to use I plan to replace it with regular mineral spirits/paint
thinner, unless I can find a distributor that sells bulk Varsol or
something like it.

*I'm using naptha my Phillips distributor sells in bulk, filling my can for
about 3.50 a gallon. I don't like the thought of cleaning my rust-prone
parts in a water content fluid . . maybe I'll just paint my parts washer
green!*
*Tony*
**

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed Sep 19 22:04:36 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:04:36 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <46F1D2CD.7010602@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20070920040343.LECL4812.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>

> Aren't there some good cleaning agents that are 
> water-soluble.  Agitene or Super Agitene sticks in my mind.

There are water-based solutions available, though as David said, Agitene and
Super Agitene are not among them.

How "good" they are is a different question.  From what I've heard, they
don't work as well in conventional parts washers as the solvent-based stuff
does.  But supposedly, the fancier washers can more than make up for the
lack of solvent power, with heated high pressure jets and/or ultrasonic
vibration.

My plan is/was to replace the pump in the el cheapo washer, so I could use
solvent again.  But it got displaced by the hydraulic press, so at the
moment it's growing daisies in the backyard.

Randall

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 22:16:46 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:16:46 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <20070920040343.LECL4812.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <46F1D2CD.7010602@comcast.net>
	<20070920040343.LECL4812.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709192116mad0b360ldba5ab578fa72639@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, Randall <tr3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > Aren't there some good cleaning agents that are
> > water-soluble.  Agitene or Super Agitene sticks in my mind.
>
> There are water-based solutions available, though as David said, Agitene and
> Super Agitene are not among them.
>
> How "good" they are is a different question.  From what I've heard, they
> don't work as well in conventional parts washers as the solvent-based stuff
> does.  But supposedly, the fancier washers can more than make up for the
> lack of solvent power, with heated high pressure jets and/or ultrasonic
> vibration.

They tend to need heat to work well.  If you can keep a tank at 120F
or so, plain old dishwasher detergent (the powered stuff you put in
the machine) and water do a fine job, better than room-temperature
mineral spirits.



-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed Sep 19 22:26:13 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:26:13 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709192116mad0b360ldba5ab578fa72639@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070920042520.HRNQ15495.mta10.adelphia.net@randall>

> If you can keep a tank 
> at 120F or so, plain old dishwasher detergent (the powered 
> stuff you put in the machine) and water do a fine job, better 
> than room-temperature mineral spirits.

Maybe I use the wrong detergent then.  I tried sticking some parts in the
dishwasher (which heats the water to around 165F) along with a triple dose
of Cascade, and they still didn't get very clean.

Randall

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 22:57:11 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:57:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <20070920042520.HRNQ15495.mta10.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <2400a5d40709192116mad0b360ldba5ab578fa72639@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070920042520.HRNQ15495.mta10.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709192157h1c110d36m4ac5ff8da3709a33@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, Randall <tr3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > If you can keep a tank
> > at 120F or so, plain old dishwasher detergent (the powered
> > stuff you put in the machine) and water do a fine job, better
> > than room-temperature mineral spirits.
>
> Maybe I use the wrong detergent then.  I tried sticking some parts in the
> dishwasher (which heats the water to around 165F) along with a triple dose
> of Cascade, and they still didn't get very clean.

I've used a tank that was about 10 gallons of water and a box of
electrosol, with a water heater element, which kept things warm, but
not hot water hot.  No pump. Overnight soaking got the stuff as clean
as I'd expect a solvent washer to.  heaviest soil needed a bit of
brushing, after rinsing in clean water, everything was oil and grease
free.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Wed Sep 19 23:05:38 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:05:38 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <20070920040343.LECL4812.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <46F1D2CD.7010602@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070919220453.032b1960@incoming.verizon.net>

Time for a shop expansion.


At 09:04 PM  9/19/2007  -0700, Randall wrote:
>My plan is/was to replace the pump in the el cheapo washer, so I could use
>solvent again.  But it got displaced by the hydraulic press, so at the
>moment it's growing daisies in the backyard.

From chad at linuxeg.com  Wed Sep 19 23:22:20 2007
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 01:22:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Automotive finish
Message-ID: <46F2038C.9060904@linuxeg.com>

I'm considering two-toning my car, Hugger Orange and Black,
not a high gloss black but the "satin" looking black finish
that was used on black-out hoods back in the muscle car era.
What I've been using is PPG Deltron base coat/clear coat. Since
the clear provides the gloss any idea how this is done using base/clear?
I like to have as much information before going to the paint store.
Last time I went there they had a heck of a time identifying Hugger 
Orange (actually called Carousel Red by Chevy) The car has to be ready
in 15 days (Ok, 21 but I like to take it easy before heading north) and
I have other work to complete. Depending on time I my stick to single
color for now but would like to have that option.
Thanks,
chad

From foxtrapper at aceweb.com  Thu Sep 20 03:36:58 2007
From: foxtrapper at aceweb.com (Nolan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:36:58 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Automotive finish
References: <46F2038C.9060904@linuxeg.com>
Message-ID: <000701c7fb69$caafdf90$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us>

There are flatteners for clear coats.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chadwick E. Labno" <chad at linuxeg.com>
To: "Shop Talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 1:22 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] Automotive finish


> I'm considering two-toning my car, Hugger Orange and Black,
> not a high gloss black but the "satin" looking black finish
> that was used on black-out hoods back in the muscle car era.
> What I've been using is PPG Deltron base coat/clear coat. Since
> the clear provides the gloss any idea how this is done using base/clear?

From eric at megageek.com  Thu Sep 20 05:55:04 2007
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:55:04 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?
Message-ID: <OFD2DFA70F.2D2C5410-ON8525735C.00417792-8525735C.00417795@mail.megageek.com>

I've seen them REALLY cut back on the freebees and giveaways.  Not to
mention they expire them much quicker now.

BTW, did anyone else get the $5 off coupon with the recall notice on the
fuse kits?  They want me to send them back the fuses and they are only
giving me $5 for the kit.  Seems strange.



Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From eric at megageek.com  Thu Sep 20 06:20:07 2007
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:20:07 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] septic fun
Message-ID: <OFD402EC58.62CD6EFB-ON8525735C.0043C2A5-8525735C.0043C2A8@mail.megageek.com>

OK, so let's say that someone had a septic system that was clogged.  So he
has the tank emptied so he can work on the outlet of the holding tank.

Right as the water comes out of the holding tank, there is a build up of
hard crusty, well you know, "matter."

So, being resourceful, he digs out the pipe, replaces it with a new one and
adds a washout right after the holding tank, but notices that there is
soupy "matter" in the pipe that goes to the distribution box.  Not wanted
to dig up the entire yard, (it's over a 150' run to the d' box), and
wanting to finish his work before the light of day, he closes up his hole
and makes it all pretty like.

Now, my questions are as follows...

First, what causes the "hard" matter to form? Is there a way to prevent it?

Then, want can I put in the system to "break down" this matter?

Lastly, how can you tell if you field is clogged or if the soupy matter in
the line was just as a result of not having any water pushing it down (the
septic was clogged for a while)?

Again, this whole discussion is academic because I know that NO ONE would
dare work on their own septic systems without getting all the necessary
board of health permits and building permits and paying all that money to
have their towns just give them a hard time.


Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From clmautz at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 06:31:41 2007
From: clmautz at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Q2hpcCBNYXV0eg==?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:31:41 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?
In-Reply-To: <OFD2DFA70F.2D2C5410-ON8525735C.00417792-8525735C.00417795@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFD2DFA70F.2D2C5410-ON8525735C.00417792-8525735C.00417795@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1190291546.12553.shop-talk@autox.team.net>

Correct, the web coupons (say w
20pct off on a purchase) are usually not good for more than a week.

What I usually do is surf for something, find it, print a coupon, and drive over and get it - that day.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: eric at megageek.com

Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:55:04 
To:shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?


I've seen them REALLY cut back on the freebees and giveaways.  Not to
mention they expire them much quicker now.

BTW, did anyone else get the $5 off coupon with the recall notice on the
fuse kits?  They want me to send them back the fuses and they are only
giving me $5 for the kit.  Seems strange.



Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos
_______________________________________________
clmautz at gmail.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com  Thu Sep 20 08:10:14 2007
From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:10:14 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] septic fun
In-Reply-To: <OFD402EC58.62CD6EFB-ON8525735C.0043C2A5-8525735C.0043C2A8@mail.megageek.com>
References: <OFD402EC58.62CD6EFB-ON8525735C.0043C2A5-8525735C.0043C2A8@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <46F27F46.80203@hornesystemstx.com>

As I understand it any water leaving the tank should be pretty clear, 
leaving all the solids in the tank. If you have crusty stuff and soupy 
stuff in the leach field lines, I'd expect the leach field to be plugged.

Our septic system started showing problems when it rained. The ground 
would saturate and the leach field would not allow the system to drain. 
Murphy's law had that happen on holidays when we had extra people in the 
house! We bought the house second hand and the original owner had not 
pumped the system in 20 years! Our leach field was almost totally 
plugged up.

We were given a couple of bids to replace the leach field, both around 
$9000. We found that we could get an aerobic system for $5500, so we had 
the leach field disconnected and the aerobic system installed in its 
place. We still have to have the septic tank pumped from time to time, 
but it helps keep the aerobic system running better.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake eric at megageek.com:
> OK, so let's say that someone had a septic system that was clogged.  So he
> has the tank emptied so he can work on the outlet of the holding tank.
>
> Right as the water comes out of the holding tank, there is a build up of
> hard crusty, well you know, "matter."
>
> So, being resourceful, he digs out the pipe, replaces it with a new one and
> adds a washout right after the holding tank, but notices that there is
> soupy "matter" in the pipe that goes to the distribution box.  Not wanted
> to dig up the entire yard, (it's over a 150' run to the d' box), and
> wanting to finish his work before the light of day, he closes up his hole
> and makes it all pretty like.
>
> Now, my questions are as follows...
>
> First, what causes the "hard" matter to form? Is there a way to prevent it?
>
> Then, want can I put in the system to "break down" this matter?
>
> Lastly, how can you tell if you field is clogged or if the soupy matter in
> the line was just as a result of not having any water pushing it down (the
> septic was clogged for a while)?
>
> Again, this whole discussion is academic because I know that NO ONE would
> dare work on their own septic systems without getting all the necessary
> board of health permits and building permits and paying all that money to
> have their towns just give them a hard time.
>
>
> Moose
>
> "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
>      Tori Amos
> _______________________________________________
> roadsters at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>
>   


-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net  Thu Sep 20 09:52:31 2007
From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:52:31 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?
References: <OFD2DFA70F.2D2C5410-ON8525735C.00417792-8525735C.00417795@mail.megageek.com>
	<20070920123242.30E66187AB7@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <011e01c7fb9e$4118d720$f4137247@fred8kwiskhcfu>

In todays paper is a 40 to 50% off sale on large roll around tools chest at 
=="LOWES"==, listed w/picture is a 2 + section cabinet with lift out trays 
including tray liners and all etc.  $519 less the discount, cheap enough. 
"FT" 

From chad at linuxeg.com  Thu Sep 20 09:54:49 2007
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:54:49 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Automotive finish
In-Reply-To: <000701c7fb69$caafdf90$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us>
References: <46F2038C.9060904@linuxeg.com>
	<000701c7fb69$caafdf90$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us>
Message-ID: <46F297C9.4080607@linuxeg.com>

Thanks, that's just what I was looking for.
chad

Nolan wrote:

> There are flatteners for clear coats.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chadwick E. Labno" <chad at linuxeg.com>
> To: "Shop Talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 1:22 AM
> Subject: [Shop-talk] Automotive finish
>
>
>> I'm considering two-toning my car, Hugger Orange and Black,
>> not a high gloss black but the "satin" looking black finish
>> that was used on black-out hoods back in the muscle car era.
>> What I've been using is PPG Deltron base coat/clear coat. Since
>> the clear provides the gloss any idea how this is done using base/clear?

From doug at dougbraun.com  Thu Sep 20 10:08:54 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:08:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709192116mad0b360ldba5ab578fa72639@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For really nasty gunky parts, especially those with a
cement-like crust of road dust and dried grease,
Easy-Off Heavy-Duty Original Oven Cleaner (in the
yellow spray can) works better than anything else I
have ever tried.

On my '31 Model A, I had many engine and drivetrain
parts with that crust on them.  I tried soaking some
in a kerosene-based parts cleaner for 3 months, and it
had no effect.  I tried boiling some in a 50/50
water/Simple Green solution, and it had little effect.
 But the oven cleaner melted the crud in a few hours.

One big catch: It WILL remove any paint.

Also, accept no substitute.  I tried the supermarket
house brand, and it barely worked.

Doug



--- David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> They tend to need heat to work well.  If you can
> keep a tank at 120F
> or so, plain old dishwasher detergent (the powered
> stuff you put in
> the machine) and water do a fine job, better than
> room-temperature
> mineral spirits.

From doug at dougbraun.com  Thu Sep 20 10:12:38 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:12:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <20070920042520.HRNQ15495.mta10.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <13639.58737.qm@web609.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If you are OK with ruining kitchen appliances, here is
what really works:  Put the parts in the oven, and
turn it up as high as it will go for a couple of
hours.  When the fire department shows up, tell them
not to worry.

The crud will be cremated, and the remaining ash will
brush right off.

This is actually the preferred technique for cleaning
engine blocks, etc. during rebuilding.

Doug

--- Randall <tr3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote:


> Maybe I use the wrong detergent then.  I tried
> sticking some parts in the
> dishwasher (which heats the water to around 165F)
> along with a triple dose
> of Cascade, and they still didn't get very clean.
> 
> Randall

From jem at milleredp.com  Thu Sep 20 10:19:03 2007
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:19:03 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F29D77.1020300@milleredp.com>

Doug Braun wrote:
> For really nasty gunky parts, especially those with a
> cement-like crust of road dust and dried grease,
> Easy-Off Heavy-Duty Original Oven Cleaner (in the
> yellow spray can) works better than anything else I
> have ever tried.

The good stuff is basically caustic soda (lye) which can also be found 
in Red Devil Lye drain cleaner, for one.

If your spouse catches you heating a big bucket of lye on the backyard 
grill to clean parts in, and takes offense at the prospect, don't blame me.

Don't put anything aluminum in there or you likely won't see it again. 
I once had a cheap stainless-steel kettle that I used for this, after 
about three hours the potmetal rivets that held the handles on dissolved 
and I heard the handles one by one go 'clunk' as they fell off.

John.

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Thu Sep 20 10:39:52 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:39:52 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
References: <449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003301c7fba4$df7825f0$6e01a8c0@KARL>

Amazingly, that's also the solution to removing pinstriping and lettering 
from modern automotive finishes.  When we bought our '93 Suburban, the 
original owners had had their names lettered onto the doors, right below the 
windows and on the back doors too (yeah, I know, and this is Chicago 
too...).

I stopped by my favorite body guy to see if there was any hope of cheaply 
removing their 'customization', and he told me "just use spray Easy-Off. 
He's not the type to pull that nasty of a joke, so I tried it and sure 
enough it worked like a charm.

The reason it works in that case is that most new automobile finishes are 
quite impervious to most garden-variety caustics, but sign painting and hand 
pinstriping are still done with old-fashioned synthetic enamel, and it's 
readily softened by the lye in oven cleaner.

Karl



> For really nasty gunky parts, especially those with a
> cement-like crust of road dust and dried grease,
> Easy-Off Heavy-Duty Original Oven Cleaner (in the
> yellow spray can) works better than anything else I
> have ever tried. 

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Thu Sep 20 10:47:06 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:47:06 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
References: <449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003601c7fba5$e1d58170$6e01a8c0@KARL>

> On my '31 Model A, I had many engine and drivetrain
> parts with that crust on them.  I tried soaking some
> in a kerosene-based parts cleaner for 3 months, and it
> had no effect.  I tried boiling some in a 50/50
> water/Simple Green solution, and it had little effect.
> But the oven cleaner melted the crud in a few hours.
>
> One big catch: It WILL remove any paint.


Must not have had any original Ford paint on there, or maybe they changed 
formulations by the Model A.  My 1916 Model T had some original paint on the 
fenders and the drivetrain components (the ones that were painted) that just 
would NOT come off after days of hot caustic.  That paint only stripped 
partially with the meanest automotive and aircraft stripper we could buy, 
and this was in the 1960's before all the OSHA and environmental changes 
started.

Karl 

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Thu Sep 20 11:07:04 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:07:04 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <003601c7fba5$e1d58170$6e01a8c0@KARL>
Message-ID: <20070920170610.UDTS28177.mta11.adelphia.net@randall>

> or maybe 
> they changed formulations by the Model A. 

Wasn't the Model T "any color so long as it's black", but the Model A was
available in many different colors ?

Randall

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Thu Sep 20 11:14:06 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:14:06 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <13639.58737.qm@web609.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070920171312.UNOV28177.mta11.adelphia.net@randall>

> If you are OK with ruining kitchen appliances, here is what 
> really works:  Put the parts in the oven, and turn it up as 
> high as it will go for a couple of hours.

My oven actually has a "self-cleaning" cycle which worked great for steel
parts.  But days later my XYL got home and noticed the house still smelled
"like a fire sale".

Fortunately, she always had a sense of humor about my "cooking car parts";
even laughed when she opened the oven one day to find a set of pistons being
heated (for wrist pin installation).

Randall

From pethier at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 11:24:26 2007
From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:24:26 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
Message-ID: <092020071724.17941.46F2ACCA000B7F360000461522007637049D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>

From: "Randall" <tr3driver at ca.rr.com>
> > If you can keep a tank 
> > at 120F or so, plain old dishwasher detergent (the powered 
> > stuff you put in the machine) and water do a fine job, better 
> > than room-temperature mineral spirits.
> 
> Maybe I use the wrong detergent then.  I tried sticking some parts in the
> dishwasher (which heats the water to around 165F) along with a triple dose
> of Cascade, and they still didn't get very clean.

I think I used Cascade back about 15 years ago when I had a spare dishwasher (bad seal, so I parked it over a floor drain to use).  Made parts so clean they flash-rusted.

I use kerosene in the parts washer these days.   Too cheap and lazy to change.

From pethier at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 11:29:34 2007
From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:29:34 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
Message-ID: <092020071729.24685.46F2ADFE000ADCEF0000606D22007637049D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>

From: "Randall" <tr3driver at ca.rr.com>
> > or maybe 
> > they changed formulations by the Model A. 
> 
> Wasn't the Model T "any color so long as it's black", but the Model A was
> available in many different colors ?

Early T's came in colors.  As production ramped up, Ford discovered that the black paint dried faster (they could cover with thinner coats, maybe?) and in the interests of production rates, the cars went all-black.

--
Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net    http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.

From pethier at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 11:53:11 2007
From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:53:11 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
Message-ID: <092020071753.28592.46F2B387000777BB00006FB022007637049D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>

From: "Karl Vacek" <kvacek at ameritech.net>
> Amazingly, that's also the solution to removing pinstriping and lettering 
> from modern automotive finishes.  When we bought our '93 Suburban, the 
> original owners had had their names lettered onto the doors, right below the 
> windows and on the back doors too (yeah, I know, and this is Chicago 
> too...).
> 
> I stopped by my favorite body guy to see if there was any hope of cheaply 
> removing their 'customization', and he told me "just use spray Easy-Off. 
> He's not the type to pull that nasty of a joke, so I tried it and sure 
> enough it worked like a charm.

You bet.  Guy I used to know had a shop.  Customer wanted the pinstripes off his Jag sedan.  Steve used Easy-Off spray oven cleaner (get the original variety, he told me) and it came right off.  He polished up the car and the customer was very happy.

--
Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA
1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,
1994 Miata C package
pethier [at] comcast [dot] net    http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier
I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.

From 57healey at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 12:14:20 2007
From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:14:20 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <092020071729.24685.46F2ADFE000ADCEF0000606D22007637049D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>
References: <092020071729.24685.46F2ADFE000ADCEF0000606D22007637049D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <743b1e2f0709201114s3fe25e2j14636adea940638@mail.gmail.com>

Late '26s and '27s Model T's came in colors as well.  Henry got a little
more flexible as sales started dropping because of the aged design and
motor.

Patton


On 9/20/07, pethier at comcast.net <pethier at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: "Randall" <tr3driver at ca.rr.com>
> > > or maybe
> > > they changed formulations by the Model A.
> >
> > Wasn't the Model T "any color so long as it's black", but the Model A
> was
> > available in many different colors ?
>
> Early T's came in colors.  As production ramped up, Ford discovered that
> the black paint dried faster (they could cover with thinner coats, maybe?)
> and in the interests of production rates, the cars went all-black.
>
> --
> Patton Dickson - http://Austin-Healeys.com - Plano, TX
> 1957 Austin-Healey 100-Six "Built to run 'til the road wears out."

From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com  Thu Sep 20 12:23:11 2007
From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:23:11 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight % off coupons?
In-Reply-To: <011e01c7fb9e$4118d720$f4137247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
References: <OFD2DFA70F.2D2C5410-ON8525735C.00417792-8525735C.00417795@mail.megageek.com>
	<20070920123242.30E66187AB7@autox.team.net>
	<011e01c7fb9e$4118d720$f4137247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
Message-ID: <46F2BA8F.5040007@hornesystemstx.com>

Today's ad from Tractor Supply lists a 40" top box for $283.82 and roll 
around for $398.68

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake FRED E THOMAS:
> In todays paper is a 40 to 50% off sale on large roll around tools chest at 
> =="LOWES"==, listed w/picture is a 2 + section cabinet with lift out trays 
> including tray liners and all etc.  $519 less the discount, cheap enough. 
> "FT" 
> _______________________________________________
> roadsters at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>
>   


-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Thu Sep 20 13:35:25 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:35:25 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
References: <092020071729.24685.46F2ADFE000ADCEF0000606D22007637049D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <005b01c7fbbd$65195c20$6e01a8c0@KARL>

The early Ford bodies were brush-painted, so colors weren't a problem.  Even 
the chassis were colored on the '09's and '10's.  As production ramped up, 
by 1913 Henry preferred to use black for production efficiency, and the 
black they used in the T days was a self-leveling "Japan Enamel", kind of a 
varnish-like material that was incredibly tough.  Some years ago a guy from 
the Model T Forum decided it was based on Gilsonite asphalt, and was 
experimenting with applying it, but it was anything but simple for him to 
reproduce.  Dunno what ever happened to that effort...

The facilities used to paint most parts were pretty much one-color 
operations, like dip tanks for wheels and most small parts including fenders 
(the paint actually floated on the top of a tank of water).  When they 
started the "spray" line where bodies were painted, body colors changed to 
all black for many years.  The sprayers were pretty much garden hoses with 
watering-can-like nozzles that flooded the paint onto the body, while the 
excess ran off into troughs to be reused again and again.  Color changing 
was very time-consuming and expensive, and Ford was determined to 
manufacture and sell the T as inexpensively as possible.  Colors were a 
frill he could do without for a long time.

Later they developed color-changing methods for the bodies and were able to 
reintroduce colors, as pointed out, in the last T's and in the A's.  But 
dipping (in black) continued for fenders and most small parts through the 
A's and even into the first V8's.

Karl



> From: "Randall" <tr3driver at ca.rr.com>
>> > or maybe
>> > they changed formulations by the Model A.
>>
>> Wasn't the Model T "any color so long as it's black", but the Model A was
>> available in many different colors ?
>
> Early T's came in colors.  As production ramped up, Ford discovered that 
> the black paint dried faster (they could cover with thinner coats, maybe?) 
> and in the interests of production rates, the cars went all-black.
>
> --
> Phil Ethier  West Side  Saint Paul Minnesota  USA

From jandkstone99 at msn.com  Thu Sep 20 20:23:52 2007
From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (JAMES STONE)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:23:52 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
Message-ID: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>

I have a set of gas tanks that I am cleaning and re-sealing.  I intend to use
Hirsch Gas Tank Sealer, which comes highly recommended.  Based on
recommendations from a friend, I cleaned the tanks using muriatic acid, which
worked like a charm: 40 year old tanks came out looking like they'd been
sandblasted.  However, it is necessary to wash out the acid with water, which
then caused the tanks to immediately flash rust.  That was expected, and I had
a pint of Hirsch's Gas Tank Etch
(http://www.hirschauto.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=27&Product_ID=7&CATID=3)
standing by.  It should have removed the flash and etched the tanks prior to
sealing.  However, they came out pretty patchy.  I wasn't at all happy with
the result and didn't want to seal an improperly prepped surface.  I suspect
that one pint wasn't enough, but that stuff gets pretty expensive when you add
shipping in and I think it is basically just phosphoric acid.  I used to be
able to buy phosphoric acid pretty easily 30 years ago, but can no longer find
it.  Does anyone know a place where this can be found easily and
inexpensively?  If not, is there a good substitute for it?  Or, should I just
bite the bullet and buy several pint bottles from Hirsch?  Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. Its our way
of saying thanks for using Windows Live.

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Thu Sep 20 21:35:55 2007
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:35:55 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
References: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <002501c7fc00$892632d0$0202a8c0@ejrussell>

How does the Hirsch product compare to POR 15's?
http://www.por15.com/prodinfo.asp?grp=MR&dept=2

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JAMES STONE"


> I used to be able to buy phosphoric acid pretty easily 30 years ago,
> but can no longer find it.  Does anyone know a place where this can
> be found easily and inexpensively?  If not, is there a good 
> substitute for it?

From bspidell at comcast.net  Thu Sep 20 20:43:55 2007
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:43:55 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
In-Reply-To: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46F32FEB.7020705@comcast.net>

James,

Various "metal prep" chemicals are phosphoric acid-based (probably with some
surfactants--i.e. soap--added in).  Try Googling "metalprep" or "metal 
prep."

Here's a popular one:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/improvedmetalprep.php

Note it gets diluted before use (but you can use it full-strength, too).

FWIW, "Naval Jelly" contains phosphoric acid, and I've heard that Coke 
(the legal kind ;)
has mild (obviously) phosphoric acid content and is a good rust remover 
(I'd stick with
metal prep, though).


bs





JAMES STONE wrote:
> I have a set of gas tanks that I am cleaning and re-sealing.  I intend to use
> Hirsch Gas Tank Sealer, which comes highly recommended.  Based on
> recommendations from a friend, I cleaned the tanks using muriatic acid, which
> worked like a charm: 40 year old tanks came out looking like they'd been
> sandblasted.  However, it is necessary to wash out the acid with water, which
> then caused the tanks to immediately flash rust.  That was expected, and I had
> a pint of Hirsch's Gas Tank Etch
> (http://www.hirschauto.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=27&Product_ID=7&CATID=3)
> standing by.  It should have removed the flash and etched the tanks prior to
> sealing.  However, they came out pretty patchy.  I wasn't at all happy with
> the result and didn't want to seal an improperly prepped surface.  I suspect
> that one pint wasn't enough, but that stuff gets pretty expensive when you add
> shipping in and I think it is basically just phosphoric acid.  I used to be
> able to buy phosphoric acid pretty easily 30 years ago, but can no longer find
> it.  Does anyone know a place where this can be found easily and
> inexpensively?  If not, is there a good substitute for it?  Or, should I just
> bite the bullet and buy several pint bottles from Hirsch?  Thanks.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Gear up for Halo. 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. Its our way
> of saying thanks for using Windows Live.
> _______________________________________________
> bspidell at comcast.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>   

-- 
***************************************************************
Bob Spidell         San Jose, CA        bspidell at comcast.net
'67 Austin-Healey 3000             '56 Austin-Healey 100M
***************************************************************

From doug at dougbraun.com  Thu Sep 20 20:48:57 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:48:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
In-Reply-To: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <96593.88199.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have used a product from Home Depot called "The Must
for Rust".  It is maybe six bucks for a quart spray
bottle, and is exactly what you need.

Doug

--- JAMES STONE <jandkstone99 at msn.com> wrote:

> I have a set of gas tanks that I am cleaning and
> re-sealing.  I intend to use
> Hirsch Gas Tank Sealer, which comes highly
> recommended.  Based on
> recommendations from a friend, I cleaned the tanks
> using muriatic acid, which
> worked like a charm: 40 year old tanks came out
> looking like they'd been
> sandblasted.  However, it is necessary to wash out
> the acid with water, which
> then caused the tanks to immediately flash rust. 
> That was expected, and I had
> a pint of Hirsch's Gas Tank Etch

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Thu Sep 20 21:06:31 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:06:31 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <46F29D77.1020300@milleredp.com>
References: <449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070920200329.014a3900@incoming.verizon.net>

I used oven cleaner for years to clean really nasty, gunky truck and 
motorcycle engines; it worked great, but as was pointed out, keep it off 
stuff you want to stay painted.  I also collect and restore Stanley hand 
planes and Coleman lanterns.  I will frequently boil a font (fuel tank) in 
a lye solution, then rinse it and cook it in a citric acid solution.  The 
first takes off all the paint, grease and dirt, and the second takes all 
the rust off.  I also boil handplanes in the citric acid solution and it's 
amazing how it takes the rust off.  It doesn't hurt the paint, which is 
Japan Enamel, and tough as hell.



At 09:19 AM  9/20/2007  -0700, John Miller wrote:
>Doug Braun wrote:
> > For really nasty gunky parts, especially those with a
> > cement-like crust of road dust and dried grease,
> > Easy-Off Heavy-Duty Original Oven Cleaner (in the
> > yellow spray can) works better than anything else I
> > have ever tried.
>
>The good stuff is basically caustic soda (lye) which can also be found
>in Red Devil Lye drain cleaner, for one.
>
>If your spouse catches you heating a big bucket of lye on the backyard
>grill to clean parts in, and takes offense at the prospect, don't blame me.
>
>Don't put anything aluminum in there or you likely won't see it again.
>I once had a cheap stainless-steel kettle that I used for this, after
>about three hours the potmetal rivets that held the handles on dissolved
>and I heard the handles one by one go 'clunk' as they fell off.
>
>John.
>_______________________________________________
>cavanadd at verizon.net
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 21:13:01 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:13:01 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
In-Reply-To: <46F32FEB.7020705@comcast.net>
References: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>
	<46F32FEB.7020705@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709202013s579a6c73l62d2c137ca834649@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net> wrote:
> I've heard that Coke
> (the legal kind ;)
> has mild (obviously) phosphoric acid content and is a good rust remover
> (I'd stick with
> metal prep, though).

At one point, Coca-cola were the largest users of phosphoric acid in
the world.  I don't know if they still are, but I've my doubts.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From jem at milleredp.com  Thu Sep 20 21:51:48 2007
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:51:48 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Parts Washers
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070920200329.014a3900@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<449524.53537.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20070920200329.014a3900@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <46F33FD4.2020606@milleredp.com>

> I also collect and restore Stanley hand planes and Coleman lanterns.

Oh, man, you're beyond hope.

John.
(one '40s Loewy-design Kenmore 'rocket' vacuum somewhere on my project 
list, there's supposed to be another one around here somewhere, at least 
the Triumph Oscillograph Wobbulator - the one over which my wife 
threatens me every time I suggest displaying it somewhere in the house - 
is in good original condition...)

From chad at linuxeg.com  Fri Sep 21 00:21:12 2007
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:21:12 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Automotive finish: Follow-up
In-Reply-To: <46F297C9.4080607@linuxeg.com>
References: <46F2038C.9060904@linuxeg.com>
	<000701c7fb69$caafdf90$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us>
	<46F297C9.4080607@linuxeg.com>
Message-ID: <46F362D8.9040601@linuxeg.com>

Asked for "flattener" and found out PPG has a clear coat per flattened.
Use the correct term and get the right stuff - though I'm not going to
use it. I'm fairly sure it was a factory color used on early second gen
Camaros.
chad

Chadwick E. Labno wrote:

>Thanks, that's just what I was looking for.
>chad
>
>Nolan wrote:
>
>  
>
>>There are flatteners for clear coats.

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Fri Sep 21 08:18:48 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:18:48 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
References: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <006501c7fc5a$548e3310$6e01a8c0@KARL>

Sunnyside and Kleen-Strip (Savogran?) - companies that market various 
solvents like mineral spirits, naphtha, MEK, acetone, toluol, etc. etc. in 
paint and hardware stores - still have phosphoric acid in their lines.  Here 
in the Chicago area we can get it at some Menards, Home Depot, and Lowe's 
stores, but it's apparently not all that popular or well-known.  Maybe a 
professional paint place ??  It's sometimes used for concrete etching, 
though muriatic (hydrochloric) acid is more commonly used for that.  We used 
to buy "Crete Nu" - a concrete etcher that was just phosphoric acid with no 
other additives, and it was cheap.  DuPont still sells Metal Prep through 
automotive paint jobbers, though it'll cost a little more.  And as 
mentioned, there's the POR15 product that you might be able to get locally 
if there's a dealer near you.

Karl




> I used to be
> able to buy phosphoric acid pretty easily 30 years ago, but can no longer 
> find
> it.  Does anyone know a place where this can be found easily and
> inexpensively?  If not, is there a good substitute for it? 

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Fri Sep 21 11:06:30 2007
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:06:30 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] phosphoric acid
Message-ID: <B91234AD64B44817A90D9A225B39507A@OwnerPC>

don't know the strength you need... but I've heard for a mild solution... use
Coca Cola.  I know it removes rust.. albeit slowly

john

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Sep 21 11:38:43 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:38:43 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] phosphoric acid
In-Reply-To: <B91234AD64B44817A90D9A225B39507A@OwnerPC>
References: <B91234AD64B44817A90D9A225B39507A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <01b401c7fc76$41a6a810$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> don't know the strength you need... but I've heard for a mild 
> solution... use
> Coca Cola.  I know it removes rust.. albeit slowly

It's *very* weak, though, something like .05% phosphoric acid.

Randall

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Fri Sep 21 15:17:21 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:17:21 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spiders and gas grills
Message-ID: <000a01c7fc94$cc700040$6e01a8c0@KARL>

A few times every year we get spider nests in the orifice area of the burners
of our gas grill.  It's happened for decades, to both natural gas and LP
grills.  It's not destructive, but it's a pain to have to clean it out just
when we're ready to light the grill.  If it happens to Jill when I'm not here,
she reverts to the oven.

Any tricks to keep the little guys out of there ??  I'd be reluctant to use
screening -- or even a large screen bag around the orifice area, because we
have incredibly low gas pressure here and the grill output is already hampered
by that.

Thanks!
Karl

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Fri Sep 21 15:30:52 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:30:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Spiders and gas grills
In-Reply-To: <000a01c7fc94$cc700040$6e01a8c0@KARL>
References: <000a01c7fc94$cc700040$6e01a8c0@KARL>
Message-ID: <020401c7fc96$af77b3a0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Any tricks to keep the little guys out of there ??  

This is a long shot, but might be worth trying ... many insects do not like
the smell of eucalyptus.  You might try storing some leaves in the area (if
you can get them), or buying some oil in the store and soaking a bit of
blotter paper or similar with it.

Given the way they seem to get into any area they want to around my house, I
doubt you'd keep them out with screening.

Randall

From jandkstone99 at msn.com  Fri Sep 21 18:39:35 2007
From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (JAMES STONE)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
In-Reply-To: <006501c7fc5a$548e3310$6e01a8c0@KARL>
References: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>
	<006501c7fc5a$548e3310$6e01a8c0@KARL>
Message-ID: <BAY126-W25E0DB0770F098F7BDE6CECCB40@phx.gbl>

Thanks guys!  Great advice.  However, I have to confess to now feeling pretty
stupid about this message.  As soon as suggestions starting coming in I
realized that I had never bothered to check Home Depot or Lowes; I Googled
"Phosphoric Acid" without much success and just assumed that this would be a
specialty product.  After reading all of the readily available suggestions, I
decided to stop at HD on the way home from work today.  While there I bought a
gallon of Kwik Strip  Phosphoric Prep & Etch for $14.  (Its not on the ether
the HD or Kwik Strip websites, but here's a link to a place that sells it even
cheaper:
http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore.com/50-270-concrete-cleaners/phosphor
ic-plus-prep-and-etch-649831.aspx)

Now, the only thing I need to decide is which directions to follow.  For rust
removal, it says to use full strength, then drain, air dry and paint within 48
hours.  For etching, it says dilute with 3 parts water, rinse after use, and
paint within 48 hours.  The Hirsch product, which looks like a diluted version
of the Prep & Etch (although they smell different), says to use full strength,
air dry and coat.

My inclination is that if it can be painted without rinsing after full
strength use, it can be coated too.  But, since I am not feeling particularly
intelligent at the moment, I am open to suggestions.

Thanks again,

Jim


> From: kvacek at ameritech.net
> To: jandkstone99 at msn.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:18:48 -0500
>
>
> Sunnyside and Kleen-Strip (Savogran?) - companies that market various
> solvents like mineral spirits, naphtha, MEK, acetone, toluol, etc. etc. in
> paint and hardware stores - still have phosphoric acid in their lines.  Here
> in the Chicago area we can get it at some Menards, Home Depot, and Lowe's
> stores, but it's apparently not all that popular or well-known.  Maybe a
> professional paint place ??  It's sometimes used for concrete etching,
> though muriatic (hydrochloric) acid is more commonly used for that.  We used
> to buy "Crete Nu" - a concrete etcher that was just phosphoric acid with no
> other additives, and it was cheap.  DuPont still sells Metal Prep through
> automotive paint jobbers, though it'll cost a little more.  And as
> mentioned, there's the POR15 product that you might be able to get locally
> if there's a dealer near you.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
> > I used to be
> > able to buy phosphoric acid pretty easily 30 years ago, but can no longer
> > find
> > it.  Does anyone know a place where this can be found easily and
> > inexpensively?  If not, is there a good substitute for it?
>

_________________________________________________________________
Capture your memories in an online journal!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From jandkstone99 at msn.com  Sat Sep 22 07:43:37 2007
From: jandkstone99 at msn.com (JAMES STONE)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:43:37 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
In-Reply-To: <bdde53220709220453l279e0110n4296137e3ebd6c9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl>
	<006501c7fc5a$548e3310$6e01a8c0@KARL>
	<BAY126-W25E0DB0770F098F7BDE6CECCB40@phx.gbl> 
	<bdde53220709220453l279e0110n4296137e3ebd6c9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY126-W47C8F31F7BDD8265479710CCB40@phx.gbl>

That's an excellent suggestion, but I am afraid it leads me to two more
questions.  First, will the original etching keep the tank from flash rusting
when you rinse it with water?  I know the muriatic acid doesn't do that.
Second, how do I know which chemical in the coating is the base?  The Hirsch
product lists the following ingredients:
Vinyl ResinTolueneMethyl Ethyl KetoneCycihexanoneXyleneWhat should I use for
the final wash?

> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 07:53:56 -0400
> From: parkanzky at gmail.com
> To: jandkstone99 at msn.com
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
> CC: shop-talk at autox.team.net
>
> What we did when we coated a motorcycle tank was to prep the tank with
> the acid, then immediately flush it well with water and then whatever
> solvent is in the coating.  The coating we used was acetone based, so
> we rinsed the tank out a couple times with acetone.  That carries all
> the water off and leaves something that you know will be compatible
> with the coating.  It also insures that you don't have water under the
> coating anywhere.  It turned out pretty well for us.  The only hiccup
> we had was that the tank was so badly rusted that when we treated it
> with the acid we actually opened up several pinholes.  We had to be
> careful to keep the acetone off the paint when we rinsed out the tank,
> and the coating sealed the holes up.
>
> -Paul
>
> On 9/21/07, JAMES STONE <jandkstone99 at msn.com> wrote:
> > Thanks guys!  Great advice.  However, I have to confess to now feeling
pretty
> > stupid about this message.  As soon as suggestions starting coming in I
> > realized that I had never bothered to check Home Depot or Lowes; I
Googled
> > "Phosphoric Acid" without much success and just assumed that this would be
a
> > specialty product.  After reading all of the readily available
suggestions, I
> > decided to stop at HD on the way home from work today.  While there I
bought a
> > gallon of Kwik Strip  Phosphoric Prep & Etch for $14.  (Its not on the
ether
> > the HD or Kwik Strip websites, but here's a link to a place that sells it
even
> > cheaper:
> >
http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore.com/50-270-concrete-cleaners/phosphor
> > ic-plus-prep-and-etch-649831.aspx)
> >
> > Now, the only thing I need to decide is which directions to follow.  For
rust
> > removal, it says to use full strength, then drain, air dry and paint
within 48
> > hours.  For etching, it says dilute with 3 parts water, rinse after use,
and
> > paint within 48 hours.  The Hirsch product, which looks like a diluted
version
> > of the Prep & Etch (although they smell different), says to use full
strength,
> > air dry and coat.
> >
> > My inclination is that if it can be painted without rinsing after full
> > strength use, it can be coated too.  But, since I am not feeling
particularly
> > intelligent at the moment, I am open to suggestions.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Jim

_________________________________________________________________
Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi.
http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sat Sep 22 08:42:04 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:42:04 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Source (or alternative) for Phosphoric Acid
References: <BAY126-W9AFFD5172E21F218DC2A6CCBB0@phx.gbl><006501c7fc5a$548e3310$6e01a8c0@KARL><BAY126-W25E0DB0770F098F7BDE6CECCB40@phx.gbl>
	<bdde53220709220453l279e0110n4296137e3ebd6c9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY126-W47C8F31F7BDD8265479710CCB40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001101c7fd26$bea5ccf0$6e01a8c0@KARL>

There's another product that's readily available and seems similar to that 
Hirsh product in that it leaves a vinyl-based phosphate coating on the 
steel.  Rust Oleum Rust Reformer.  Just paint it on after removing all loose 
rust, and let it dry.  It's paintable, and in fact should be painted to 
protect it from weathering, but I've left treated things outside unprotected 
for over a year and it's held up pretty well, often perfectly.

I've never used it in a fuel tank, but it's worth testing.

Most any hardware store or home center should have it.

Karl 

From nases at verizon.net  Sat Sep 22 09:47:11 2007
From: nases at verizon.net (Phil Nase)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:47:11 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] I hate static
Message-ID: <000b01c7fd2f$d78f9530$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com>

We have a under cabinet mounted kitchen radio and no matter where I plug it
in the reception is noisy with static.  Its better (but not great) when I
unplug the phone chargers and coffeemaker but this is inconvenient.

Any remedy for the static without using battery power?   It's a Sony with
the antenna in the power cord and the case is sealed so I can't play with
it.

If a new radio is all I need that's OK, but anyone have a favorite model
that isn't too big?

Thanks everyone.

Phil Nase
Quakertown, PA
http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sat Sep 22 11:02:29 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:02:29 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] I hate static
In-Reply-To: <000b01c7fd2f$d78f9530$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com>
References: <000b01c7fd2f$d78f9530$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com>
Message-ID: <028b01c7fd3a$5bf67f00$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com>

> Any remedy for the static without using battery power?   It's 
> a Sony with
> the antenna in the power cord and the case is sealed so I 
> can't play with it.

It's very rare for consumer-grade appliances to be totally sealed,
frequently they just snap together.  But even if it is sealed, a Dremel and
a saw blade will fix that ...

If running on battery power makes the sound acceptable, one solution might
be to run a power cord just for the radio to an outlet that is farther away.
Even an RFI filter at the point the cord plugs into the outlet might solve
the problem.

But IMO a different radio is easier and better.  Sorry, no suggestions on
which model.  I used to have a Panasonic under-counter that worked quite
well and had a separate antenna, but that was a long time ago.

Randall

From mmeany at ne.rr.com  Sat Sep 22 11:09:37 2007
From: mmeany at ne.rr.com (Mark Meany)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:09:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] I hate static
References: <000b01c7fd2f$d78f9530$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com>
Message-ID: <00a601c7fd3b$5bdee2e0$6601a8c0@meansterq9coh8>

Phil,

I have the same problem whenever I turn on fluorescent lights which are on 
the same circuit. Could that be an issue here & could you plug it in 
elsewhere to eliminate it?

Mark M

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Phil Nase
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: [Shop-talk] I hate static


We have a under cabinet mounted kitchen radio and no matter where I plug it
in the reception is noisy with static.  Its better (but not great) when I
unplug the phone chargers and coffeemaker but this is inconvenient.

Any remedy for the static without using battery power?   It's a Sony with
the antenna in the power cord and the case is sealed so I can't play with
it.

If a new radio is all I need that's OK, but anyone have a favorite model
that isn't too big?

Thanks everyone.

Phil Nase
Quakertown, PA
http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa
_______________________________________________
mmeany at ne.rr.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From chad at linuxeg.com  Sat Sep 22 13:02:13 2007
From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 15:02:13 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] I hate static
In-Reply-To: <000b01c7fd2f$d78f9530$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com>
References: <000b01c7fd2f$d78f9530$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com>
Message-ID: <46F566B5.4000704@linuxeg.com>

Both AM and FM? My guess, if it is just AM the noise is
entering through the antenna but if both AM and FM
are effected you have noise on your power line.
For am AM, use a portable radio to isolate the
source of the interference. Both AM and FM try
a power line filter - Google "power line filter".
You might have a defective dimmer or florescent
light ballast. Start powering down equipment till
the trouble clears.
chad



Phil Nase wrote:

>We have a under cabinet mounted kitchen radio and no matter where I plug it
>in the reception is noisy with static.  Its better (but not great) when I
>unplug the phone chargers and coffeemaker but this is inconvenient.
>
>Any remedy for the static without using battery power?   It's a Sony with
>the antenna in the power cord and the case is sealed so I can't play with
>it.
>
>If a new radio is all I need that's OK, but anyone have a favorite model
>that isn't too big?
>
>Thanks everyone.
>
>Phil Nase
>Quakertown, PA
>http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa
>_______________________________________________
>chad at linuxeg.com
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From cak at dimebank.com  Sat Sep 22 13:32:18 2007
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:32:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] I hate static
Message-ID: <200709221932.l8MJWIf5019190@moose.dimebank.com>

It's a little surprising that you don't have the problem on battery
power, since the antenna/power cord is in the same place - it's almost
as if the radio's power supply itself is the issue.

I'd start by putting a ferrite on the power cord, near the radio. Something
like 

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103222&cp=&sr=1&origkw=ferrite+snap&kw=ferrite+snap&parentPage=search

though I'm not entire sure how it will affect the antenna that is
also inside the cable (and running through the core)!

From ronglue at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 18:08:33 2007
From: ronglue at yahoo.com (Ron Horwitz)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:08:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] weakening a spring
Message-ID: <862424.35341.qm@web34702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Have a project that requires something like a
clothespin to hold two delicate pieces of fabric
together.  I'd like to weaken the spring on the
clothespin a bit.  I know that I can just force the
jaws open for a couple of days and that will help
some.  I can disassemble and bend the spring a bit,
but that seems to be fairly irreproducible, and I need
four that are fairly similar in clamp strength.  Will
heat lower the spring constant?  Do I heat with the
jaws closed or open?  Any other thoughts?

Thanks,
Ron

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Sat Sep 22 18:17:57 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:17:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] weakening a spring
In-Reply-To: <862424.35341.qm@web34702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <862424.35341.qm@web34702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709222016020.23432@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007, Ron Horwitz wrote:
> Have a project that requires something like a clothespin to hold two 
> delicate pieces of fabric together.  I'd like to weaken the spring on 
> the clothespin a bit.  I know that I can just force the jaws open for a 
> couple of days and that will help some.  I can disassemble and bend the 
> spring a bit, but that seems to be fairly irreproducible, and I need 
> four that are fairly similar in clamp strength.  Will heat lower the 
> spring constant?  Do I heat with the jaws closed or open?  Any other 
> thoughts?

I can't imagine that clothespin springs are all that uniform from the 
factory... Why not just make a spring force meter (two pieces of something 
with a pivot like a scissors, with a spring on one end and the clothes pin 
clamping the other, measure the distance) and work on each one via bending 
until you get four you like?

Mark

From kennedybc at comcast.net  Sat Sep 22 18:17:30 2007
From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C. Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:17:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] weakening a spring
In-Reply-To: <862424.35341.qm@web34702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C31B28DA.63EF%kennedybc@comcast.net>

Ron, try wrapping a rubber band around the clothes pin. Size, number of
wraps and location on the clothes pin should give you lots of control. You
should be able to repeat it fairly well on the other close pins.
Good Luck
Brian



> From: Ron Horwitz <ronglue at yahoo.com>
> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:08:33 -0700 (PDT)
> To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Shop-talk] weakening a spring
> 
> Have a project that requires something like a
> clothespin to hold two delicate pieces of fabric
> together.  I'd like to weaken the spring on the
> clothespin a bit.  I know that I can just force the
> jaws open for a couple of days and that will help
> some.  I can disassemble and bend the spring a bit,
> but that seems to be fairly irreproducible, and I need
> four that are fairly similar in clamp strength.  Will
> heat lower the spring constant?  Do I heat with the
> jaws closed or open?  Any other thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ron

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sat Sep 22 18:38:59 2007
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 00:38:59 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] septic fun
Message-ID: <092320070038.22896.46F5B5A3000048E000005970220073436404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

I'm not sure I understand you, but if you're saying what I think you're saying, the line FROM the tank was partially plugged with hard 'matter' and the line TO the tank was partially plugged with slushy 'matter'.  yeah?

if that's the case, I'd vote your drain field isn't working right, or your tank is too small.  the idea is that only liquid will hit the drain field/tank outlet while the solids digest on the bottom of the tank.  so if you've got solids in the outlet, either the thing just got too full, like it was never pumped, or the tank is too small, or it's filling too quickly.  ideally, the tank would never need to be pumped out, and the solids would digest away.

it sounds like the tank was too full.  dunno, see if it works better now that is was pumped.  on the other hand, once the drain field is plugged, you're generally looking at a new field.  if you get the new field, spring for a new, ginormous tank (or two), with baffles.

they sell stuff to pour down your toilet to spur the bacteria growth.  I've been told variously over time that it's nothing but the yeast you can buy from the grocery store, that it's *not* the yeast from the store, and that either will work fine or that they do nothing.  I pour both the stuff from the store and the yeast down the toilet.  I like toilets that flush.  on the other hand, the last time we had the tank pumped, the guy complemented us on the digested-ness of our 'matter'.  what can I say, I'm a winner.

scott
(we don't have sewer out here, either, and I'm just waiting for the thing to go bad.)


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: eric at megageek.com
> OK, so let's say that someone had a septic system that was clogged.  So he
> has the tank emptied so he can work on the outlet of the holding tank.
> 
> Right as the water comes out of the holding tank, there is a build up of
> hard crusty, well you know, "matter."
> 
> So, being resourceful, he digs out the pipe, replaces it with a new one and
> adds a washout right after the holding tank, but notices that there is
> soupy "matter" in the pipe that goes to the distribution box.  Not wanted
> to dig up the entire yard, (it's over a 150' run to the d' box), and
> wanting to finish his work before the light of day, he closes up his hole
> and makes it all pretty like.
> 
> Now, my questions are as follows...
> 
> First, what causes the "hard" matter to form? Is there a way to prevent it?
> 
> Then, want can I put in the system to "break down" this matter?
> 
> Lastly, how can you tell if you field is clogged or if the soupy matter in
> the line was just as a result of not having any water pushing it down (the
> septic was clogged for a while)?
> 
> Again, this whole discussion is academic because I know that NO ONE would
> dare work on their own septic systems without getting all the necessary
> board of health permits and building permits and paying all that money to
> have their towns just give them a hard time.

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sat Sep 22 19:12:48 2007
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 01:12:48 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Of mice and...Jeeps!
Message-ID: <092320070112.579.46F5BD90000BD92800000243220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

I believe the current year goldwings have airbags.  if they don't, they'll be out next year.  integrated nav systems are also out.  they've had air vents in the dash for a while now.  it won't be long before a/c is available, I'm sure.

scott "if you're going to ride a couch, why not stay home?" hall

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mike Rambour <mikey at b2systems.com>
>   Wasn't it Honda that experimented with Air Bags on their bike ? 
> most likely the GoldWing, I remember reading they were going to be 
> available but never heard of them after and I don't remember the 
> brand right now.

From dirtbeard at pacbell.net  Sat Sep 22 20:05:04 2007
From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:05:04 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] I hate static
References: <200709221932.l8MJWIf5019190@moose.dimebank.com>
Message-ID: <005901c7fd86$2a0871f0$27347d80@XLH883>

Hi guys,

If you find it to be your radio, please consider the GE Super Radio:

http://www.geocities.com/rbrucecarter/sr.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/GE-General-Electric-AM-FM-Super-Radio-Superadio-II_W0QQitemZ150163601542QQihZ005QQcategoryZ146514QQcmdZViewItem

They are getting harder to find recently, but I have one and swear by it, 
particularly for am radio.They also are carried under the RCA label, but as 
a stand alone portable radio, they are tough to beat for $40 new and $20 on 
ebay. I can listen to stations on it that do not even appear on my other 
radios.

best,

doug

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Kantarjiev" <cak at dimebank.com>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] I hate static


> It's a little surprising that you don't have the problem on battery
> power, since the antenna/power cord is in the same place - it's almost
> as if the radio's power supply itself is the issue.
>
> I'd start by putting a ferrite on the power cord, near the radio. 
> Something
> like
>
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103222&cp=&sr=1&origkw=ferrite+snap&kw=ferrite+snap&parentPage=search
>
> though I'm not entire sure how it will affect the antenna that is
> also inside the cable (and running through the core)!
> _______________________________________________
> dirtbeard at pacbell.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From crothfuss at coastalnet.com  Sat Sep 22 20:33:39 2007
From: crothfuss at coastalnet.com (crothfuss at coastalnet.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:33:39 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Shop-talk] weakening a spring
Message-ID: <32067544.1190514819879.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Ron,

   Try taking a few strokes with a file on the exposed coils. by reducing the wire diameter, it oughto reduce the tension.  Generally I can do this by running the entire length of a spring against a belt sander to reduce its' wire diameter and tension, but that'd be impossible with a clothes pin spring as I remember them.  Good Luck.

Chuck

From jamesf at groupwbench.org  Sun Sep 23 14:27:18 2007
From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (Jim Franklin)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:27:18 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] work carts?
Message-ID: <DA5D3CF9-A6BA-4E32-B34B-9CBBF7AC867C@groupwbench.org>

I have a friend wants to buy one of these. Any comments? Experiences?  
Alternatives?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ 
product_6970_200332049_200332049

thanks,
jim

From mikey at b2systems.com  Sun Sep 23 14:54:04 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 13:54:04 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] work carts?
In-Reply-To: <DA5D3CF9-A6BA-4E32-B34B-9CBBF7AC867C@groupwbench.org>
References: <DA5D3CF9-A6BA-4E32-B34B-9CBBF7AC867C@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070923134752.0596b240@b2systems.com>

    Just a simple comment, i don't like these carts where the top 
opens up.  Invariably, I have a tool or part under the top just when 
the entire thing is apart and I have to lift the lid to get to it and 
knock everything onto the ground.

  I do like the drawers underneath however.

At 01:27 PM 9/23/2007, Jim Franklin wrote:
>I have a friend wants to buy one of these. Any comments? Experiences?
>Alternatives?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Sun Sep 23 16:52:40 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:52:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] work carts?
In-Reply-To: <DA5D3CF9-A6BA-4E32-B34B-9CBBF7AC867C@groupwbench.org>
References: <DA5D3CF9-A6BA-4E32-B34B-9CBBF7AC867C@groupwbench.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709231851250.483@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007, Jim Franklin wrote:
> I have a friend wants to buy one of these. Any comments? Experiences?
> Alternatives?
>
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
> product_6970_200332049_200332049

I wouldn't want one with a top that opens.  Part of what makes a cart 
useful to me is being able to toss stuff on it when I'm working on 
something, and then that stuff would be in the way of getting into the 
cart.

Harbor Freight has a ton of different tool carts, from basic basic to as 
complicated as a tool cart gets.

Mark

From jibjib at att.net  Sun Sep 23 17:41:49 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:41:49 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
Message-ID: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

I just noticed the cupping of the wood floor near the dishwasher <expletive>
and traced it down to a leaky dishwasher pump.  
 
Thirteen year old dishwasher with a leaky pump.  This is the first issue we
have had in the six years since owning the house.
 
Two question arise:
 
1. Pull and possibly repair or replace the pump or buy new.
 
2. If I buy new, and the budget is $500-900, what suggestions can you make,
especially for quieter machines?  It does not have to be whisper quite, as
we run it right before heading up to bed.  Hearing it run while we are in
the kitchen would be fine.
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Jack

From scott.hall at comcast.net  Sun Sep 23 18:36:38 2007
From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:36:38 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
Message-ID: <092420070036.8546.46F70696000D111200002162220076230204040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net>

if you buy new, you should be able to get dang near anything for that budget.  we got a nice stainless-interior kenmore elite for ~$500 a few years back.  it's nowhere near as quiet as they claimed (they claimed it was literally whisper quiet, as in it sounded like someone whispering and you wouldn't be able to hear it at all from across the room.  not even close.), but it is reasonably quiet.

we're buying the dish drawers when we get a new one because the ability to run just one drawer at a time is genius.

I've tried to have several dishwashers fixed, fwiw, and each time the cost of the repair exceeded the price of a new dishwasher.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Jack Brooks" <jibjib at att.net>
> I just noticed the cupping of the wood floor near the dishwasher <expletive>
> and traced it down to a leaky dishwasher pump.  
>  
> Thirteen year old dishwasher with a leaky pump.  This is the first issue we
> have had in the six years since owning the house.
>  
> Two question arise:
>  
> 1. Pull and possibly repair or replace the pump or buy new.
>  
> 2. If I buy new, and the budget is $500-900, what suggestions can you make,
> especially for quieter machines?  It does not have to be whisper quite, as
> we run it right before heading up to bed.  Hearing it run while we are in
> the kitchen would be fine.

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sun Sep 23 21:04:37 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:04:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
References: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <46F72945.1090707@xxiii.com>

Jack Brooks wrote:
> Thirteen year old dishwasher with a leaky pump.  This is the first issue we
>  
> 1. Pull and possibly repair or replace the pump or buy new.

That old?  replace it.  Who knows what will break next week.

> 2. If I buy new, and the budget is $500-900, what suggestions can you make,
> especially for quieter machines?  It does not have to be whisper quite, as

Check Consumer Reports.  You can subscribe to their online stuff cheaply 
and access all the archived reports immediately.  I don't agree with all 
their stuff --  Esp on some electronics and high end specialty stuff 
they're clueless.  But I think they're OK on appliances.

My opinions:  GE sucks, and I hate their corporation.  Maytag, though 
now owned by Whirlpool, still builds Maytag designs and they suck. 
Whirlpool and their brands other than Maytag (Kitchen Aid, et al) ROCK! 
Import brands (Bosch and what not) may work well, but have crappy 
reliability records. Fisher-Paykel in particular have some products that 
appear to have innovative designs, but are supposedly quite failure prone.

And if you're in the market for laundry appliances, I can't sau enough 
good stuff about the Whirlpool Duet washer  :)  But that's another post...

   -Wayne

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Sun Sep 23 21:26:09 2007
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:26:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <46F72945.1090707@xxiii.com>
References: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
	<46F72945.1090707@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <46F72E51.6010401@comcast.net>

Consumer Reports sucks, too.  I bought appliances based on their recommendation 
and have been sorry ever since.  (GE came highest in quality when I was 
purchasing.  NEVER AGAIN!)

Kitchen Aid, Bosch, Maytag.  (In that order, in my opinion, though my opinions 
may be out of date.)  Even a low-end of one of these will be better than the 
high-end that GE can build.

Donald.

Wayne wrote:

[snip]

> Check Consumer Reports.  You can subscribe to their online stuff cheaply 
> and access all the archived reports immediately.  I don't agree with all 
> their stuff --  Esp on some electronics and high end specialty stuff 
> they're clueless.  But I think they're OK on appliances.
> 
> My opinions:  GE sucks, and I hate their corporation.  Maytag, though 
> now owned by Whirlpool, still builds Maytag designs and they suck. 
> Whirlpool and their brands other than Maytag (Kitchen Aid, et al) ROCK! 
> Import brands (Bosch and what not) may work well, but have crappy 
> reliability records. Fisher-Paykel in particular have some products that 
> appear to have innovative designs, but are supposedly quite failure prone.
> 
> And if you're in the market for laundry appliances, I can't sau enough 
> good stuff about the Whirlpool Duet washer  :)  But that's another post...
> 
>    -Wayne

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun Sep 23 21:54:36 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:54:36 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <46F72E51.6010401@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20070924035339.GSW23505.mta15.adelphia.net@randall>

> Kitchen Aid, Bosch, Maytag.  (In that order, in my opinion, 
> though my opinions may be out of date.)

My high-end Kitchen Aid sure was unreliable though.  The cycle selection
switch has failed roughly every 5 years since we bought it.  Wasn't so bad
when I could talk the local supply house into selling the part to me
wholesale, but they're closed now and retail is over $150 !  I won't be
buying KA again.

Randall

From jem at milleredp.com  Sun Sep 23 22:34:04 2007
From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:34:04 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <46F72E51.6010401@comcast.net>
References: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
	<46F72945.1090707@xxiii.com> <46F72E51.6010401@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46F73E3C.3000007@milleredp.com>

> Consumer Reports sucks, too.  I bought appliances based on their recommendation 
> and have been sorry ever since.  (GE came highest in quality when I was 
> purchasing.  NEVER AGAIN!)

I find it a little surprising GE came in on top, given my (limited) 
experience with them.

> Kitchen Aid, Bosch, Maytag.  (In that order, in my opinion, though my opinions 
> may be out of date.)  Even a low-end of one of these will be better than the 
> high-end that GE can build.

We've been quite happy with our KitchenAids over the years; we went for 
KitchenAid this time 'round over Bosch in large part because the Bosch 
and most other Euro-design dishwashers do not have a food grinder to 
deal with food-muck, you have to clean it out manually.  Makes them 
quieter.

My one beef with the current Kitchenaid is that the detergent-dispenser 
cover latch is an awful design, splash a little extra powder in there 
and it won't latch until you wipe it out of the groove with your index 
finger.  Maybe the designers were expecting you to use liquid detergent? 
  Aargh.

>> And if you're in the market for laundry appliances, I can't sau enough 
>> good stuff about the Whirlpool Duet washer  :)  But that's another post...

Is it big enough to wash a car cover for an average-size sedan?

John.

From doug at dougbraun.com  Mon Sep 24 01:25:37 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:25:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <608207.56443.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Junk it!  It's old.

Do NOT buy a GE.  We had one, and it was very annoying
to use:

The wheels would always fall off the lower rack, even
after I got new ones.  The internal electronics would
get locked up every now and then, forcing me to reboot
it by going down to the basement and cycling the power
to it.

And finally, a few weeks ago, teh float valve or
whatever controls the filling stopped working and it
tried to fill for several hours, sending many gallons
of water down into our basement.

Doug

--- Jack Brooks <jibjib at att.net> wrote:

> I just noticed the cupping of the wood floor near
> the dishwasher <expletive>
> and traced it down to a leaky dishwasher pump.  
>  
> Thirteen year old dishwasher with a leaky pump. 
> This is the first issue we
> have had in the six years since owning the house.

From eric at megageek.com  Mon Sep 24 06:01:35 2007
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:01:35 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
Message-ID: <OF3A299CBA.F47B7700-ON85257360.00421036-85257360.0042103B@mail.megageek.com>

I recommend "Jane." for a dishwasher.  (She is my live in house keeper!
8>)  With my job and Army sending me everyplace, I had to hire a live in
house keeper.)

Seriously, I've don't have much experience with dishwashers as I'm a
perennial bachelor I just wash my dishes by hand.  But I do have a
dishwasher in my kitchen.  I tried to use it once and it didn't work.  I
did find it very easy and simple to work on it (but I have no idea what
parts would cost.)

I do have an extra dishwasher in my garage (I have a ton of extra
appliances)  If you live near NJ and want a free dishwasher until you
replace yours, come pick it up.

Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Mon Sep 24 06:00:15 2007
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:00:15 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] LOWE'S big sale
Message-ID: <4D60E0264E6B47A7BDEADDA38D6F906F@OwnerPC>

In today's paper is a 40 to 50% off sale on large roll around tools chest at
=="LOWES"==, listed w/picture is a 2 + section cabinet with lift out trays
including tray liners and all etc.  $519 less the discount, cheap enough.
"FT"


Well Fred... left work and quickly headed to my local Lowe's ready to make a
steal on a new roll around.  They had ONE black set on display  and it was a
whopping 15% off..   I asked the tool chimp where the tool boxes were that
were in the add.  He just smiled and pointed to that one.  His explanation
was..  we don't make up the adds  we just have to listen to the complaints...
and walked away.  Lowes didn't make me happy Friday.  Checked with two other
Lowes in the area.... same story, no boxes.  I assume that their adds are
national ??? But the Birmingham Lowe's must be out of the loop.

maybe next time ?

john

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Mon Sep 24 06:26:54 2007
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (dhlocker at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:26:54 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] LOWE'S big sale
Message-ID: <092420071226.23051.46F7AD0D000F1B8C00005A0B22092246279D0A050C0104080B@comcast.net>

If the ad offers it, they are obliged to deliver it or a comparable product at comparable price, or a rain check.  I believe that's a Federal law.

Donald.
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "john niolon" <jniolon at bham.rr.com>
> In today's paper is a 40 to 50% off sale on large roll around tools chest at
> =="LOWES"==, listed w/picture is a 2 + section cabinet with lift out trays
> including tray liners and all etc.  $519 less the discount, cheap enough.
> "FT"
> 
> 
> Well Fred... left work and quickly headed to my local Lowe's ready to make a
> steal on a new roll around.  They had ONE black set on display  and it was a
> whopping 15% off..   I asked the tool chimp where the tool boxes were that
> were in the add.  He just smiled and pointed to that one.  His explanation
> was..  we don't make up the adds  we just have to listen to the complaints...
> and walked away.  Lowes didn't make me happy Friday.  Checked with two other
> Lowes in the area.... same story, no boxes.  I assume that their adds are
> national ??? But the Birmingham Lowe's must be out of the loop.
> 
> maybe next time ?
> 
> john

From lane495 at nctc.com  Mon Sep 24 06:49:17 2007
From: lane495 at nctc.com (Patricia Lane)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:49:17 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] was Dishwasher -now Whirlpool Duet
References: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion><46F72945.1090707@xxiii.com>
	<46F72E51.6010401@comcast.net> <46F73E3C.3000007@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <006801c7fea9$59aa7560$6401a8c0@anubisreturns>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Miller"

>
>>> And if you're in the market for laundry appliances, I can't sau enough
>>> good stuff about the Whirlpool Duet washer  :)  But that's another 
>>> post...
>
> Is it big enough to wash a car cover for an average-size sedan?
>
> John.

This is strictly shop related, as the Duet does wash things from the garage. 
;o)

When I finally convinced my husband that I needed a new washer (think to 
kill a refrigerator), I decided on the Duet pair.

Besides looking really cool in the laundry room, they cut the water bill 
tremendously.

I can wash comforters, horse blankets, and yes, a cover for my Pontiac.  One 
tip on washing non-household stuff:
select extra rinse and "more" clean.

Patricia 

From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 24 07:08:06 2007
From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:08:06 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Renting scaffolding
Message-ID: <BAY108-W9FA12E140695A68B868DE9AB60@phx.gbl>

I'm needing to rent some scaffolding to do some work on my house that I can't
do by ladder.  I know that Home Depot rents scaffolding, but I haven't done
any other research on this.  I'm in the northern suburbs of Philadelphia, so
if anyone can recommend someone I'd appreciate it.

Not sure what to expect, I'm assuming I just need to tell them how high and
how wide I need it to be, and then just tell them where to place it?

What kind of facility is in place to anchor the scaffolding to the house, or
is that something I don't need to worry about, assuming it has been setup
correctly?

Any info would be helpful

Thanks,
PJ
_________________________________________________________________
More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live
Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration
_HM_mini_5G_0907

From mark at bradakis.com  Mon Sep 24 11:54:25 2007
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:54:25 -0600
Subject: [Shop-talk] LOWE'S big sale
In-Reply-To: <092420071226.23051.46F7AD0D000F1B8C00005A0B22092246279D0A050C0104080B@comcast.net>
References: <092420071226.23051.46F7AD0D000F1B8C00005A0B22092246279D0A050C0104080B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46F7F9D1.9020201@bradakis.com>

>If the ad offers it, they are obliged to deliver it or a comparable product at comparable price, or a rain check.  I believe that's a Federal law.
>  
>
Many years ago, maybe 25 or so, the weekly Sears ad in the paper listed some
automotive batteries on sale.  We needed a new one for the  Toyota,  so we
decided to get one.  The ad said sale prices good through Saturday, the Nth.

Well, it turns out that saturday was N-1.   The Nth,  as listed in the  
ad, was
sunday.  So sunday afternoon we head down to make the purchase.  The
clerk informed us that Sears had misprinted the ad, so we were out of
luck - to bad for us.  He  wasn't very helpful.

Monday we went to the library and found the name of Sear's CEO and
the corporate address, mailed them a letter describing how we were treated
and enclosed the erroneous advertisement.

About a week  later  we get a phone call  from the manager of the local
Sears, asking us if we'd to come in and purchase such and such a battery
for the price recently advertised.  Cool!  I was surprised how quickly our
complaint was handled and how welll we were treated THAT time we
were at the store.

mjb.

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 12:09:40 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:09:40 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LOWE'S big sale
In-Reply-To: <092420071226.23051.46F7AD0D000F1B8C00005A0B22092246279D0A050C0104080B@comcast.net>
References: <092420071226.23051.46F7AD0D000F1B8C00005A0B22092246279D0A050C0104080B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709241109p4c504349hb930a92bb3d967ef@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/24/07, dhlocker at comcast.net <dhlocker at comcast.net> wrote:
> If the ad offers it, they are obliged to deliver it or a comparable product at comparable price, or a rain check.  I believe that's a Federal law.
>

the exact obligations are a function of state laws.  Most states have
exceptions for "printer's errors", limited quantity items, and the
like.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Mon Sep 24 15:29:49 2007
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:29:49 -1200
Subject: [Shop-talk] LOWE'S big sale
Message-ID: <46f82c4d.34a.169fa.403550243@ml2.myemail.com>

I have gone to Sears with one of their "Saturday Only" sale
fliers in hand - and my work schedule in my other hand - and
explained that I am an ER nurse working a 12 hour shift on
Saturday thus cannot get to the store to buy a sale item.

They have sold me the item at the sale price when it wasn't
Saturday...

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC


> About a week  later  we get a phone call  from the manager
> of the local Sears, asking us if we'd to come in and
> purchase such and such a battery for the price recently
> advertised.  Cool!  I was surprised how quickly our
> complaint was handled and how welll we were treated THAT
> time we were at the store.
> 
> mjb.
Login from home, work, school.  Anywhere!

From dhlocker at comcast.net  Mon Sep 24 16:28:37 2007
From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:28:37 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <46F73E3C.3000007@milleredp.com>
References: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
	<46F72945.1090707@xxiii.com> <46F72E51.6010401@comcast.net>
	<46F73E3C.3000007@milleredp.com>
Message-ID: <46F83A15.8080409@comcast.net>

That GE dishwasher purchase was made about 18 years ago.  That's back when I 
first (and last) looked to CR for recommendations.

Donald.

John Miller wrote:
>> Consumer Reports sucks, too.  I bought appliances based on their recommendation 
>> and have been sorry ever since.  (GE came highest in quality when I was 
>> purchasing.  NEVER AGAIN!)
> 
> I find it a little surprising GE came in on top, given my (limited) 
> experience with them.
> 
>> Kitchen Aid, Bosch, Maytag.  (In that order, in my opinion, though my opinions 
>> may be out of date.)  Even a low-end of one of these will be better than the 
>> high-end that GE can build.
> 
> We've been quite happy with our KitchenAids over the years; we went for 
> KitchenAid this time 'round over Bosch in large part because the Bosch 
> and most other Euro-design dishwashers do not have a food grinder to 
> deal with food-muck, you have to clean it out manually.  Makes them 
> quieter.
> 
> My one beef with the current Kitchenaid is that the detergent-dispenser 
> cover latch is an awful design, splash a little extra powder in there 
> and it won't latch until you wipe it out of the groove with your index 
> finger.  Maybe the designers were expecting you to use liquid detergent? 
>   Aargh.
> 
[snip]

From bjzwissler at comcast.net  Mon Sep 24 17:07:09 2007
From: bjzwissler at comcast.net (Ben Zwissler)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:07:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] LOWE'S big sale
In-Reply-To: <092420071226.23051.46F7AD0D000F1B8C00005A0B22092246279D0A050C0104080B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8B2745A457DF485E9795BB9D3A593182@LivingRoomPC>

Believe the Truth in Advertising or whatever is was called was a victim of
the Reagan era government streamlining.  Stores have little or no obligation
to honor their advertising.  Your choice is to not shop there.  Though
complaining to higher up is often effective.

Ben....

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+bjzwissler=comcast.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+bjzwissler=comcast.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of dhlocker at comcast.net
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:27 AM
To: john niolon
Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] LOWE'S big sale

If the ad offers it, they are obliged to deliver it or a comparable product
at comparable price, or a rain check.  I believe that's a Federal law.

Donald.
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "john niolon" <jniolon at bham.rr.com>
> In today's paper is a 40 to 50% off sale on large roll around tools chest
at
> =="LOWES"==, listed w/picture is a 2 + section cabinet with lift out trays
> including tray liners and all etc.  $519 less the discount, cheap enough.
> "FT"
>
>
> Well Fred... left work and quickly headed to my local Lowe's ready to make
a
> steal on a new roll around.  They had ONE black set on display  and it was
a
> whopping 15% off..   I asked the tool chimp where the tool boxes were that
> were in the add.  He just smiled and pointed to that one.  His explanation
> was..  we don't make up the adds  we just have to listen to the
complaints...
> and walked away.  Lowes didn't make me happy Friday.  Checked with two
other
> Lowes in the area.... same story, no boxes.  I assume that their adds are
> national ??? But the Birmingham Lowe's must be out of the loop.
>
> maybe next time ?
>
> john
Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Mon Sep 24 17:30:39 2007
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:30:39 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070924193039.00aaa680@pop.east.cox.net>

At 04:41 PM 9/23/2007 -0700, Jack Brooks wrote:

>Thirteen year old dishwasher with a leaky pump.  This is the first issue we
>have had in the six years since owning the house.
> 
>Two question arise:
> 
>1. Pull and possibly repair or replace the pump or buy new.

Jack,

Are you planing on doing the work or having it done?  I had the motor seal 
go on my old dishwasher.  I was going to do it myself.  Spent one evening
getting the motor out, another tearing it down.  Then went to get the
parts.  Turns out you can't replace just the seal.  Which was fine since
I broke the impeller trying to take it apart.  The motor/pump/seal was one
unit - non repairable.  Cost was over $100 just for the part.  When it 
went the 2nd time, I went out and looked at new ones.  Got Tappan / Frigidaire
for about $250.  It was a piece of cake to install.

At 13yrs old, I agree with others, buy a new one!  If I have an appliance
that is over 10 yrs old, and it fails, I replace it.  Unless it is something
easy to fix, like new heating coils for an clothes dryer, or the defrost
resistors on a refrig.

 
>2. If I buy new, and the budget is $500-900, what suggestions can you make,
>especially for quieter machines?  It does not have to be whisper quite, as
>we run it right before heading up to bed.  Hearing it run while we are in
>the kitchen would be fine.

Based on what others have said, you might try looking at ClarkHoward.com.
He's a firm believer in NOT going TOP of the line.  But it depends on your
house and what you want.  He's talked about the reliability of many of the
home appliances and says that for a washing machine or dryer you can get
an excellent one for about $300.  Which is what I spent on my new GE
electric dryer a few months ago.

John


John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From jibjib at att.net  Tue Sep 25 21:48:50 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:48:50 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070924193039.00aaa680@pop.east.cox.net>
References: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
	<3.0.5.32.20070924193039.00aaa680@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <00c801c7fff0$27896c60$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

In process report.

We will be buying a new dishwasher.  I'm considering several brands, which I
and many of you consider solid units.  Right now it's just matter of
balancing aesthetics, price and function.

I came to realize, via my research and your input, that any repair would be
silly, even if I was able to find the parts and did the work myself.

The next question will be what to do with a slightly cupped, but otherwise
really nice oak plank floor.  It has been suggested to me that time and
drying may result in the much or all of the cupping going away, but I'm
concerned this will not occur to a satisfactory level.

Is it possible to sand and refinish a portion of a wood floor?

Thanks all for the help.

Jack

From eric at megageek.com  Wed Sep 26 06:12:26 2007
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:12:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
Message-ID: <OF6771882C.7B90C0A5-ON85257362.00430EA4-85257362.00430EA7@mail.megageek.com>

Jack askes...

>The next question will be what to do with a slightly cupped, but otherwise
>really nice oak plank floor.

Wall to wall carpeting?  8>)

Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com  Wed Sep 26 07:29:40 2007
From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:29:40 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <00c801c7fff0$27896c60$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
References: <009e01c7fe3b$50ab5600$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
	<3.0.5.32.20070924193039.00aaa680@pop.east.cox.net>
	<00c801c7fff0$27896c60$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <46FA5EC4.3040109@hornesystemstx.com>

Jack,

This is a question that can best be answered by a local floor 
refinisher. While it is possible to refinish part of the floor, it will 
probably show that it is different than the rest. A professional can 
address this best.

It is also probable that your home owner's insurance will cover the cost 
of floor repair.

Good luck
Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Jack Brooks:
> The next question will be what to do with a slightly cupped, but otherwise
> really nice oak plank floor.  It has been suggested to me that time and
> drying may result in the much or all of the cupping going away, but I'm
> concerned this will not occur to a satisfactory level.
>
> Is it possible to sand and refinish a portion of a wood floor?
>
> Thanks all for the help.
>
> Jack
> _______________________________________________
> roadsters at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>
>   


-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From doug at dougbraun.com  Wed Sep 26 08:43:44 2007
From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 07:43:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Dishwasher - leaky pump
In-Reply-To: <OF6771882C.7B90C0A5-ON85257362.00430EA4-85257362.00430EA7@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <80149.3006.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I think you need to wait a couple of months for it to
totally dry out before doing anything.
If you went and sanded it flat now, it might continue
drying and end up reverse-cupped.

Doug


> Jack askes...
> 
> >The next question will be what to do with a
> slightly cupped, but otherwise
> >really nice oak plank floor.

From ejrussell at mebtel.net  Wed Sep 26 09:49:33 2007
From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:49:33 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] cupped floor boards (was: Dishwasher - leaky pump)
References: <80149.3006.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <006e01c80054$dad7fca0$0202a8c0@ejrussell>

I agree. It might help if you can weigh it down while it dries to 
encourage a return to flatness.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell

----- Original Message ----- 

>I think you need to wait a couple of months for it to
> totally dry out before doing anything.
> If you went and sanded it flat now, it might continue
> drying and end up reverse-cupped.
>
> Doug
>
>
>> Jack askes...
>>
>> >The next question will be what to do with a
>> slightly cupped, but otherwise
>> >really nice oak plank floor.

From jibjib at att.net  Wed Sep 26 18:52:50 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:52:50 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] cupped floor boards (was: Dishwasher - leaky pump)
In-Reply-To: <006e01c80054$dad7fca0$0202a8c0@ejrussell>
References: <80149.3006.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<006e01c80054$dad7fca0$0202a8c0@ejrussell>
Message-ID: <00a701c800a0$bbdba300$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Yup, no question about waiting for the floor to dry.  I had no plans to do
anything for several months at least, especially since we are heading into
the moist season here in Seattle.  <Gulp>

There is no way to weigh the cupped sections down, short of screwing it
down.  The area extends 12 inches out from the cabinet fronts, by the sink,
dishwasher and four feet on the other side.  

All of a sudden, hydronically heated tile is looking attractive in my
kitchen. <only partially tongue in cheek>

Oh, I ordered a Kitchen aid today; stainless interior, top of door controls,
very clean looking outside and a gazillion jets, jet levels etc. inside.
It's the high end of the Whirlpool line and there are no more selector
switches (Randall).  This seems like good, basic, higher end machine.  They
had one with a third shelf, a shallow top shelf for knives and utensils,
adjustable height second shelf, wine glass holders, etc., etc..  We stopped
short of that one.  Ours was under $700.  Expensive, but hopefully worth it.

Thanks again everyone.

Jack 

From brad.kahler at 141.com  Wed Sep 26 20:16:21 2007
From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:16:21 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
Message-ID: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com>

I think I know the answer to this but I'm going to ask anyway. 

I recently installed a 4-post lift that I bought from our neighbor.  Its 
an older unit that was used in a muffler shop for years.  Anyway, the 
hydraulic reservoir sits horizontal to the big lift cylinder and if the 
lift is raised up to a reasonable working height, when lowering any 
faster than a real slow crawl hydraulic fluid spews out of the breather 
cap. 

All of the markings on the hydraulic unit are missing so I can't 
identify a manufacturer and the lift vendor has not been of any help 
(they been through 3 buyouts since the lift was made).

What I'm curious about is how do you determine just how much oil should 
be in the reservoir?  My thought is if there is enough oil in the 
reservoir for the lift to make it all the way to the top without 
cavitating then that should be all the fluid you would need.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Brad

From racegt6 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 21:20:22 2007
From: racegt6 at yahoo.com (Charlie Schlismann)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:20:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Walkie-talkies
In-Reply-To: <00a701c800a0$bbdba300$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <893247.12959.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I need to communicate with the guys in the shop that
pays my bills.  I had the bright idea of two-way
radios but am overwhelmed by the information I've
gotten from the Internet.

This is an old solid masonry factory (61,000 sq. ft.
w/2 stories) with a couple of smaller, brick-walled
interior shops. Eight to ten of us are roaming within
a 40,000 sq.ft. area on the bottom floor 95% of the
time.  

Need something light enough to be in a pocket or
holstered.  We run and gun in a flourescently lit
metal fab shop with arc welders, spot welders, cnc
machines, etc.  Lots of buss ducts, too.

I'd like to get something relatively cheap, easily
replaceable and workable in our environment.

Too, I need to to bill it by Friday (end of our fiscal
year).

TIA for any help.  Charlie


#71 MiDiv F500

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Wed Sep 26 21:27:57 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:27:57 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com>
References: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com>
Message-ID: <46FB233D.8040903@xxiii.com>

Brad Kahler wrote:
> I recently installed a 4-post lift that I bought from our neighbor.  Its 
> an older unit that was used in a muffler shop for years.  Anyway, the 
> [..snip..]
> Any thoughts?

Yeah.... OMG!  You're gutsy enough to stand underneath a couple tons of 
mass held up by this antique contraption?!?!?!?

   -Wayne

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Wed Sep 26 21:38:00 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:38:00 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Walkie-talkies
In-Reply-To: <893247.12959.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <893247.12959.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46FB2598.1090600@xxiii.com>

Charlie Schlismann wrote:
> I need to communicate with the guys in the shop that
> pays my bills.  I had the bright idea of two-way
> radios but am overwhelmed by the information I've

Only thing I can relate to it is cordless phones.  Years ago (circa 
1994) I was in an industrial environment of concrete block, rebar, metal 
roof, etc with lots of electrical noise.  A VP wanted a cordless phone 
for roaming shop use.  To test, I brought in a early gen cordless I had 
at home.  It got all of 20ft from the base before loosing it.  900MHz 
phones had *just* come out, so I scored one that was returnable (Best 
Buy had just come to town, wow.)  It worked for a couple hundred feet 
from the base, but we returned it because the volume was insufficient to 
hear the thing.

Since then, there are all the 2.4 and 5 GHz phones.  From what I 
understand, the higher frequencies propagate further through 
unobstructed air, but are worse then 900MHz at penetrating barriers. 
ie:  unless you're in a pasture, the old 900 is often better.

I don't know what freq's the radios work on, but I'd guess they're 
similar to residential cordless phones.

HTH,

   -Wayne

From mark at nashvilletn.org  Wed Sep 26 21:47:22 2007
From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:47:22 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Walkie-talkies
References: <893247.12959.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46FB2598.1090600@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <01d801c800b9$1ecd4d20$0600a8c0@Dell9200>

Wayne,

Give me the details of what you want to do, rural, city, distance, inside or 
outside buildings, what the guys in the shop do, etc.  Been in the business 
since Marconi, well since 67 anyway.  Help is on the way.

Mark
Nashville
http://www.arrestmered.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne" <wmc_st at xxiii.com>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Walkie-talkies



Charlie Schlismann wrote:
> I need to communicate with the guys in the shop that
> pays my bills.  I had the bright idea of two-way
> radios but am overwhelmed by the information I've

Only thing I can relate to it is cordless phones.  Years ago (circa
1994) I was in an industrial environment of concrete block, rebar, metal
roof, etc with lots of electrical noise.  A VP wanted a cordless phone
for roaming shop use.  To test, I brought in a early gen cordless I had
at home.  It got all of 20ft from the base before loosing it.  900MHz
phones had *just* come out, so I scored one that was returnable (Best
Buy had just come to town, wow.)  It worked for a couple hundred feet
from the base, but we returned it because the volume was insufficient to
hear the thing.

Since then, there are all the 2.4 and 5 GHz phones.  From what I
understand, the higher frequencies propagate further through
unobstructed air, but are worse then 900MHz at penetrating barriers.
ie:  unless you're in a pasture, the old 900 is often better.

I don't know what freq's the radios work on, but I'd guess they're
similar to residential cordless phones.

HTH,

   -Wayne
_______________________________________________
mark at nashvilletn.org

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Wed Sep 26 21:52:42 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:52:42 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Walkie-talkies
In-Reply-To: <01d801c800b9$1ecd4d20$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
References: <893247.12959.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46FB2598.1090600@xxiii.com> <01d801c800b9$1ecd4d20$0600a8c0@Dell9200>
Message-ID: <46FB290A.4090906@xxiii.com>

Mark wrote:
> Wayne,
> Give me the details of what you want to do, rural, city, distance, inside or 

Hey there... Thanks, but it was Charlie that originally asked.  I'm sure 
he'll speak up soon enough.

   -Wayne

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Wed Sep 26 22:01:01 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:01:01 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com>
Message-ID: <20070927040100.GFFE20630.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>

> My thought is if there is 
> enough oil in the reservoir for the lift to make it all the 
> way to the top without cavitating then that should be all the 
> fluid you would need.

Makes sense to me.

Might be a missing baffle ?

Randall

From shoptalk at centipi.com  Wed Sep 26 22:33:51 2007
From: shoptalk at centipi.com (Mike Frerichs)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:33:51 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] E-mail Test -- Please Ignore
Message-ID: <004f01c800bf$9ad6efb0$6501a8c0@proteus457>

Sorry about this.  Made a lot of changes to my ShopTalk subscription.

From mikey at b2systems.com  Wed Sep 26 22:49:22 2007
From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:49:22 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <46FB233D.8040903@xxiii.com>
References: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com> <46FB233D.8040903@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070926214853.0599a0b8@b2systems.com>

>Yeah.... OMG!  You're gutsy enough to stand underneath a couple tons of
>mass held up by this antique contraption?!?!?!?

  Steel was better quality in the old days.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Rambour
Bug Writer err...Programmer
       mikey at b2systems.com
**********************************************************************
If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car,
then take a look at   http://www.singercars.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From eric at megageek.com  Thu Sep 27 06:19:32 2007
From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:19:32 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] cupped floor boards (was: Dishwasher - leaky pump)
Message-ID: <OF79801020.0FCB5DB7-ON85257363.0043B4E8-85257363.0043B4EB@mail.megageek.com>

Jack (and others),

I see lots of people talking about "stainless interior" as a feature on
dish washers.  What is the advantage?  It seems like a costly addition to
an appliance that is basically disposable.  (Not a knock on you or your
decision, I'm just curious on why they make them like this.)



Moose

"We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute."
     Tori Amos

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Thu Sep 27 07:09:55 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:09:55 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] cupped floor boards (was: Dishwasher - leaky pump)
References: <OF79801020.0FCB5DB7-ON85257363.0043B4E8-85257363.0043B4EB@mail.megageek.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c80107$b2f7eb10$6e01a8c0@KARL>

A good dishwasher will outlast a cheapo plastic interior probably a couple 
of times over, and besides, plastic interiors crack, stain, look dingy, and 
tend to hold odors.  Older top-of-the-line dishwashers (our last one was a 
1976 KitchenAid Superba) had porcelain interiors, but stainless is less 
expensive and even more durable as it won't chip like porcelain will if 
abused.  Our second and present dishwasher, a 2002 KitchenAid Superba, has a 
stainless interior and the kids already dropped a heavy implement into the 
open door and put a nick in it, which would have been a chip and maybe a 
small dent in porcelain.

FWIW, in 26 years all we replaced in our old KA was a set of racks, as the 
old plastisol-coated ones eventually rusted, and one timer.  Not really a 
disposable appliance...

Karl



> I see lots of people talking about "stainless interior" as a feature on
> dish washers.  What is the advantage?  It seems like a costly addition to
> an appliance that is basically disposable.  (Not a knock on you or your
> decision, I'm just curious on why they make them like this.)
>
>
>
> Moose

From pete at partnercomm.com  Thu Sep 27 12:51:46 2007
From: pete at partnercomm.com (Peter Murray)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Walkie-talkies
In-Reply-To: <893247.12959.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0709271352040.938-100000@eminence.partnercomm.com>

I know that pro help is on the way, but I'll throw my amateur knowledge of 
the subject into the mix...

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Charlie Schlismann wrote:

> I need to communicate with the guys in the shop that
> pays my bills.  I had the bright idea of two-way
> radios but am overwhelmed by the information I've
> gotten from the Internet.

Two-way sounds just fine - I'm assuming that a "party line" is not an 
issue. FRS and GMRS radios would be an easy, inexpensive answer, but 
you're technically not permitted to use them for a commercial purpose. The 
"service" that would apply in your case would be MURS, and radios for that 
are generally available for not too much. No license is required, etc.

Info from the FCC on MURS: 
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=operations&id=multi_use

There are a bunch of radios out there you can pick up for not too much. 
Check your local two-way radio store. Radio Shack does not appear to carry 
MURS transceivers any longer.

Some other online sellers:
http://www.dakotaalert.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=56
http://www.rkleef.com/handhelds/fostek/murs502.html

> This is an old solid masonry factory (61,000 sq. ft.
> w/2 stories) with a couple of smaller, brick-walled
> interior shops. Eight to ten of us are roaming within
> a 40,000 sq.ft. area on the bottom floor 95% of the
> time.  

That doesn't sound too large. These radios should perform fine in that
(relatively) small space.

> Need something light enough to be in a pocket or
> holstered.  We run and gun in a flourescently lit
> metal fab shop with arc welders, spot welders, cnc
> machines, etc.  Lots of buss ducts, too.
> 
> I'd like to get something relatively cheap, easily
> replaceable and workable in our environment.

The radios above are all built with commercial durability in mind, and 
they're inexpensive enough that if one suffers destruction, another can be 
acquired for not too much - and you could stock a couple of spares.

> Too, I need to to bill it by Friday (end of our fiscal
> year).

Any of the online or local outfits should be able to set you up pretty 
quickly!

-Peter

--
Peter Murray (N3IXY)
Oak Hill, VA

From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com  Thu Sep 27 13:38:20 2007
From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:38:20 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com>
References: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com>
Message-ID: <46FC06AC.4000308@hornesystemstx.com>

Brad,

There are a several reasons I can think of that would cause the oil to 
blow out of the breather. If the problem mainly occurs when the lift is 
at its highest, you may not have enough oil in the tank. Generally the 
oil return line comes in somewhere below the oil level to keep it from 
spraying around. If you have ever turned on a jacuzzi tub jets before 
the water level is above the jets you will know what I mean!

If there is air being pushed into the system by a bad pump shaft seal 
you may be having trouble with the air bubbles causing the excess 
agitation in the tank.

If these aren't the case, you should be able to extend the breather cap 
into a barf tank. A barf tank us nothing more than can that has a 
diameter several times that of the pipe that is having the problem The 
pipe with the problem comes in the bottom, and rises a bit into the 
tank. There is an additional hole in the bottom of the tank with a line 
that goes back into the reservoir to return the extra oil. The breather 
is then put on top of the barf tank with a baffle under it to keep the 
oil from blowing directly out the breather. This type of tank was used 
on some of the 1950's and earlier cars on the crankcase breather. I also 
seem to remember seeing them in speed shop catalogs. Your application 
probably needs a larger capacity than the set ups found on cars though.

As for how much oil to put in the tank, I would  think that with the 
lift down (oil level highest) I would fill the tank to be almost full.

Peace,
Pat

Thusly spake Brad Kahler:
> I think I know the answer to this but I'm going to ask anyway. 
>
> I recently installed a 4-post lift that I bought from our neighbor.  Its 
> an older unit that was used in a muffler shop for years.  Anyway, the 
> hydraulic reservoir sits horizontal to the big lift cylinder and if the 
> lift is raised up to a reasonable working height, when lowering any 
> faster than a real slow crawl hydraulic fluid spews out of the breather 
> cap. 
>
> All of the markings on the hydraulic unit are missing so I can't 
> identify a manufacturer and the lift vendor has not been of any help 
> (they been through 3 buyouts since the lift was made).
>
> What I'm curious about is how do you determine just how much oil should 
> be in the reservoir?  My thought is if there is enough oil in the 
> reservoir for the lift to make it all the way to the top without 
> cavitating then that should be all the fluid you would need.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
> _______________________________________________
> roadsters at hornesystemstx.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>
>
>   


-- 
Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems 
(512) 797-7501 Voice		5026 FM 2001
Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com	Lockhart, TX 78644-4443
www.hornesystemstx.com
-- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT --

From brad.kahler at 141.com  Thu Sep 27 19:49:10 2007
From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:49:10 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <46FB233D.8040903@xxiii.com>
References: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com> <46FB233D.8040903@xxiii.com>
Message-ID: <46FC5D96.7000706@141.com>

Wayne,

Not sure to take your comment.  The antique contraption that I bought is 
built better than the new ones being sold today.  I called the factory 
and managed to get in touch with someone who worked for the original 
company that build mine.  He flat said they don't make them that good 
anymore.  So yeah, I guess I'm gutsy enough to stand under it.  Of 
course I use the safety's that are provided with it and never stand 
under it when they are not in place. 

Besides, when I found out the model was a TR3 I knew it was meant to be 
since my vintage race car is a 1957 TR3 :)

Brad


Wayne wrote:
> Brad Kahler wrote:
>   
>> I recently installed a 4-post lift that I bought from our neighbor.  Its 
>> an older unit that was used in a muffler shop for years.  Anyway, the 
>> [..snip..]
>> Any thoughts?
>>     
>
> Yeah.... OMG!  You're gutsy enough to stand underneath a couple tons of 
> mass held up by this antique contraption?!?!?!?
>
>    -Wayne
> _______________________________________________
> brad.kahler at 141.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From brad.kahler at 141.com  Thu Sep 27 19:50:19 2007
From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:50:19 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <20070927040100.GFFE20630.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <20070927040100.GFFE20630.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <46FC5DDB.2070205@141.com>

Randall, if you mean the baffle in the breather, its new and in place.  
As far as a baffle in the reservoir I have no way of knowing since I 
can't see down in there.

Brad


Randall wrote:
>> My thought is if there is 
>> enough oil in the reservoir for the lift to make it all the 
>> way to the top without cavitating then that should be all the 
>> fluid you would need.
>>     
>
> Makes sense to me.
>
> Might be a missing baffle ?
>
> Randall
> _______________________________________________
> brad.kahler at 141.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From brad.kahler at 141.com  Thu Sep 27 19:53:13 2007
From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:53:13 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <000801c800dd$341409c0$2d017247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
References: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com>
	<000801c800dd$341409c0$2d017247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
Message-ID: <46FC5E89.2010602@141.com>

Fred,

I definitely filled it FULL when I filled the reservoir.  It uses a push 
pull cylinder so it uses close to the same amount of oil either 
direction.  Only real difference would be the volume taken up by the 
shaft. 

Its only when I lower it down fast that it pukes some up.  Going slow it 
works ok.  I'll just let it seek its own level and be done with it.

Brad


FRED E THOMAS wrote:
> Brad, should be "no"  in the reservoir as it is all in the lines 
> pushing and holding the lift up, or in mechanics talk, it's out to 
> lunch at present, made that mistake way, way back, the the fluid while 
> the lift was up and the reservoir was empty, filled it full and almost 
> blew the system   "FT"
> ======================================================================================================== 
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Kahler" <brad.kahler at 141.com>
> To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:16 PM
> Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
>
>
>> I think I know the answer to this but I'm going to ask anyway.
>>
>> I recently installed a 4-post lift that I bought from our neighbor.  Its
>> an older unit that was used in a muffler shop for years.  Anyway, the
>> hydraulic reservoir sits horizontal to the big lift cylinder and if the
>> lift is raised up to a reasonable working height, when lowering any
>> faster than a real slow crawl hydraulic fluid spews out of the breather
>> cap.
>>
>> All of the markings on the hydraulic unit are missing so I can't
>> identify a manufacturer and the lift vendor has not been of any help
>> (they been through 3 buyouts since the lift was made).
>>
>> What I'm curious about is how do you determine just how much oil should
>> be in the reservoir?  My thought is if there is enough oil in the
>> reservoir for the lift to make it all the way to the top without
>> cavitating then that should be all the fluid you would need.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brad
>> _______________________________________________
>> frede.thomas2 at verizon.net
>>
>> Shop-talk mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From brad.kahler at 141.com  Thu Sep 27 20:00:29 2007
From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:00:29 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <46FC06AC.4000308@hornesystemstx.com>
References: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com> <46FC06AC.4000308@hornesystemstx.com>
Message-ID: <46FC603D.3060304@141.com>

Pat,

> There are a several reasons I can think of that would cause the oil to 
> blow out of the breather. If the problem mainly occurs when the lift 
> is at its highest, you may not have enough oil in the tank. Generally 
> the oil return line comes in somewhere below the oil level to keep it 
> from spraying around. If you have ever turned on a jacuzzi tub jets 
> before the water level is above the jets you will know what I mean!
>
The problem occurs only when lowering.  Both oil lines come in at the 
top of the reservoir so your spray theory may well be the case here.  
But your post got me to thinking.  I'm wondering if the breather is not 
providing enough air flow to allow the air pressure to be relieved so 
the oil is pumped out the breather. 
> If there is air being pushed into the system by a bad pump shaft seal 
> you may be having trouble with the air bubbles causing the excess 
> agitation in the tank.
>
The pump does not run on the way down, its a gravity lower by bleeding 
off the pressure on one side of the cylinder.
> If these aren't the case, you should be able to extend the breather 
> cap into a barf tank. A barf tank us nothing more than can that has a 
> diameter several times that of the pipe that is having the problem The 
> pipe with the problem comes in the bottom, and rises a bit into the 
> tank. There is an additional hole in the bottom of the tank with a 
> line that goes back into the reservoir to return the extra oil. The 
> breather is then put on top of the barf tank with a baffle under it to 
> keep the oil from blowing directly out the breather. This type of tank 
> was used on some of the 1950's and earlier cars on the crankcase 
> breather. I also seem to remember seeing them in speed shop catalogs. 
> Your application probably needs a larger capacity than the set ups 
> found on cars though.
>
Right now I'm just letting the overflow land in some oil dry on the 
floor.  A barf tank would be nice and if I can find something reasonable 
to use I'll rig it up.  If it starts cavitating I'm back to square one.

> As for how much oil to put in the tank, I would  think that with the 
> lift down (oil level highest) I would fill the tank to be almost full.
>
Actually lift down in this case means the lowest level.  With the 
cylinder extended the lift is down and the most oil would be in the 
lines and piston.  However thinking back I may have filled it with the 
lift down.  After all there was no way to raise it without oil!

Appreciate your comments.

Brad

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Thu Sep 27 22:05:59 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:05:59 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] 4-post lift hydraulic pump
In-Reply-To: <46FC5D96.7000706@141.com>
References: <46FB1275.5050705@141.com> <46FB233D.8040903@xxiii.com>
	<46FC5D96.7000706@141.com>
Message-ID: <46FC7DA7.7060906@xxiii.com>

Brad Kahler wrote:
> Wayne,
> Not sure to take your comment.  The antique contraption that I bought is 
> built better than the new ones being sold today.  I called the factory 
> and managed to get in touch with someone who worked for the original 

Mostly just joking around -- please don't take it in any negative way. 
It probably is a lot more mechanically solid than newer equipment, but 
the idea of hydraulics that old would concern me.  I didn't know if it 
was held up by the hydraulics or if there's some mechanical lock that 
holds it at height;  sounds like there is. cool.

   -wayne

From bk13 at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 27 22:42:39 2007
From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 21:42:39 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Renting scaffolding - bad example
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-W9FA12E140695A68B868DE9AB60@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY108-W9FA12E140695A68B868DE9AB60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46FC863F.8020409@earthlink.net>

I have a single story house, so no experience here.  There is an example 
of what not to do at http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/default.htm 
- If you don't see scaffolding, click next photo to get to #261.  There 
are a bunch of examples of using several ladders like 
http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/archive_201-250/photo217.htm.  
I hope everyone here is smarter than the guys in the photos.

Brian

PJ McGarvey wrote:
> I'm needing to rent some scaffolding to do some work on my house that I can't
> do by ladder.  I know that Home Depot rents scaffolding, but I haven't done
> any other research on this.  I'm in the northern suburbs of Philadelphia, so
> if anyone can recommend someone I'd appreciate it.
>
> Not sure what to expect, I'm assuming I just need to tell them how high and
> how wide I need it to be, and then just tell them where to place it?
>
> What kind of facility is in place to anchor the scaffolding to the house, or
> is that something I don't need to worry about, assuming it has been setup
> correctly?
>
> Any info would be helpful
>
> Thanks,
> PJ
> _________________________________________________________________
> More photos; more messages; more whatever  Get MORE with Windows Live
> Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage.
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration
> _HM_mini_5G_0907
> _______________________________________________
> bk13 at earthlink.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From nogera at worldnet.att.net  Thu Sep 27 22:46:29 2007
From: nogera at worldnet.att.net (Bob Nogueira)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:46:29 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG Welders 115 v vs 220v
Message-ID: <000001c8018a$89daed80$4101a8c0@CARROOM>

My trusty hobby MIG welder gave up the ghost after 17 years. My wife bought
it for me as a present ( gotta love a women who buys you tools )  from
Harbor Freight  when they were still Harbor Salvage freight. 
It was a 115 volt model that did about 120 amps at most but served all my
needs and did everything I needed. 
Looking at HF catalog it appears they now only offer 220v MIGs. I've also
checked Northern Tool and they  still offer a 115 v MIG.  
Question : Is there an advantage to a 220 v vs a 115 v model?  I have both
220 and 115 in the shop so could go either way.  If there is no difference
the 115 v would be more convenient since I could use it in any of the
outlets as apposed to moving the work to the welder. 

Thanks for any advise . 
Bob Nogueira 

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 23:09:48 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:09:48 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Renting scaffolding - bad example
In-Reply-To: <46FC863F.8020409@earthlink.net>
References: <BAY108-W9FA12E140695A68B868DE9AB60@phx.gbl>
	<46FC863F.8020409@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709272209q50c57723ic042235a63db88d7@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/28/07, Brian Kemp <bk13 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I have a single story house, so no experience here.  There is an example
> of what not to do at http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/default.htm
> - If you don't see scaffolding, click next photo to get to #261.  There
> are a bunch of examples of using several ladders like
> http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/archive_201-250/photo217.htm.
> I hope everyone here is smarter than the guys in the photos.
>

Another "Don't try this at home" scaffolding shot:
http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/archive_201-250/photo243.htm


Some amazing idiots.



> Brian
>
> PJ McGarvey wrote:
> > I'm needing to rent some scaffolding to do some work on my house that I can't
> > do by ladder.  I know that Home Depot rents scaffolding, but I haven't done
> > any other research on this.  I'm in the northern suburbs of Philadelphia, so
> > if anyone can recommend someone I'd appreciate it.
> >
> > Not sure what to expect, I'm assuming I just need to tell them how high and
> > how wide I need it to be, and then just tell them where to place it?
> >
> > What kind of facility is in place to anchor the scaffolding to the house, or
> > is that something I don't need to worry about, assuming it has been setup
> > correctly?
> >
> > Any info would be helpful
> >
> > Thanks,
> > PJ
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > More photos; more messages; more whatever   Get MORE with Windows Live
> > Hotmail.. NOW with 5GB storage.
> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration
> > _HM_mini_5G_0907
> > _______________________________________________
> > bk13 at earthlink.net
> >
> > Shop-talk mailing list
> >
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> _______________________________________________
> dmscheidt at gmail.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Thu Sep 27 23:52:01 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:52:01 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG Welders 115 v vs 220v
In-Reply-To: <000001c8018a$89daed80$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <20070928055200.CAUI660.mta10.adelphia.net@randall>

> Question : Is there an advantage to a 220 v vs a 115 v model? 

Realistically, you can't get more than about 70 amps of honest welding
current from a normal  (15 amp) 120v outlet, without giving up something
else.  Running on 220v allows more output, as well as making the design a
little easier (cheaper) for a given output current.

For example, the Hobart Handler 140, "up to 140 amps", is only rated at 90
amps when operating from a 20 amp outlet; or 63 amps from a 15 amp outlet.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler140/

Randall

From jibjib at att.net  Fri Sep 28 01:17:08 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:17:08 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG Welders 115 v vs 220v
In-Reply-To: <000001c8018a$89daed80$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
References: <000001c8018a$89daed80$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
Message-ID: <01b801c8019f$95d12a40$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Bob, 

A 220 will allow for you to weld thicker material.  See the manufacturers
web sites for actual values.

Please also check out Miller, Hobart and Lincoln (in no real order of
preference) as Harbor Freight welders are not nearly the same now, as what
you own. Any of these three brands can be considered interchangeable with
regard to quality and features.  They will be slightly different, but
essentially the same quality and performance and most importantly spare
parts will be available, both now and into the foreseeable future.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
Nogueira
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:46 PM
To: Shop Talk
Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG Welders 115 v vs 220v

My trusty hobby MIG welder gave up the ghost after 17 years. My wife bought
it for me as a present ( gotta love a women who buys you tools )  from
Harbor Freight  when they were still Harbor Salvage freight. 
It was a 115 volt model that did about 120 amps at most but served all my
needs and did everything I needed. 
Looking at HF catalog it appears they now only offer 220v MIGs. I've also
checked Northern Tool and they  still offer a 115 v MIG.  
Question : Is there an advantage to a 220 v vs a 115 v model?  I have both
220 and 115 in the shop so could go either way.  If there is no difference
the 115 v would be more convenient since I could use it in any of the
outlets as apposed to moving the work to the welder. 

Thanks for any advise . 
Bob Nogueira
_______________________________________________
jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Fri Sep 28 08:44:19 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:44:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v vs
	220v)
In-Reply-To: <01b801c8019f$95d12a40$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
References: <000001c8018a$89daed80$4101a8c0@CARROOM>
	<01b801c8019f$95d12a40$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709281039540.7953@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007, Jack Brooks wrote:
> Please also check out Miller, Hobart and Lincoln (in no real order of 
> preference) as Harbor Freight welders are not nearly the same now, as 
> what you own. Any of these three brands can be considered 
> interchangeable with regard to quality and features.  They will be 
> slightly different, but essentially the same quality and performance and 
> most importantly spare parts will be available, both now and into the 
> foreseeable future.

I'd also second the recommendation of a name brand welder, particularly 
Miller (I currently own a Lincoln SP-175Plus, and I like the Miller 175 
better).

But my real point in posting is wondering about the truth to the "parts 
won't be available for Harbor Freight stuff in the future" implication 
above...

Around me, Harbor Freight retail stores are fairly common and at least two 
more have been opened in the past couple years (Youngstown/Pittsburgh 
area, btw).  I've been going there for years.  I've needed parts a few 
times.

Each of those times, service, availability, etc. etc. has been the same as 
most any other place I'd go and its been getting better in my mind for 
years.

At what point do the "crap chinese tools" become the norm?  Its already to 
the point for me where I tend to buy them first, unless I see a real need 
for something name brand...

Mark

From cak at dimebank.com  Fri Sep 28 10:14:28 2007
From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:14:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs 220v)
Message-ID: <200709281614.l8SGESl7003839@moose.dimebank.com>

When I was shopping for a welder a while back (I *still* haven't
bought one), the usual big 3 were recommended, along with

 www.htpweld.com

Miller and Hobart are same company. Hobart is their consumer product, Miller
is their commercial product. Both are excellent machines.  Lincoln is also a
name brand machine and a good choice. Parts are easy to find on a saturday
afternoon at the welding supply store!

Best,
chris

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 10:48:15 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:48:15 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs 220v)
In-Reply-To: <200709281614.l8SGESl7003839@moose.dimebank.com>
References: <200709281614.l8SGESl7003839@moose.dimebank.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709280948v59b382b0x8585c3ed3eb7498c@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/28/07, Chris Kantarjiev <cak at dimebank.com> wrote:
> When I was shopping for a welder a while back (I *still* haven't
> bought one), the usual big 3 were recommended, along with
>
>  www.htpweld.com
>
> Miller and Hobart are same company. Hobart is their consumer product, Miller
> is their commercial product. Both are excellent machines.  Lincoln is also a
> name brand machine and a good choice. Parts are easy to find on a saturday
> afternoon at the welding supply store!

I've got an HTP MIG welder, the low-end 120V machine which they no
longer sell.  It's a fine machine.  It uses a tweco-compatible torch,
so consumables are available anywhere.


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From smarc at smarc.net  Fri Sep 28 11:05:47 2007
From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:05:47 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs 220v)
In-Reply-To: <200709281614.l8SGESl7003839@moose.dimebank.com>
References: <200709281614.l8SGESl7003839@moose.dimebank.com>
Message-ID: <46FD346B.1090902@smarc.net>

When I was making this decision a few years ago, having never welded, I 
decided to buy a quality machine from a local welding supply place. I 
wanted to be sure that I wasn't having issues with the equipment since I 
was just learning to weld. Plus I can get free advice from the experts 
there... BTW, what I bought was a Hobart Handler 180.

HF has some good products for occasional users like myself. I wouldn't 
use them if I had to depend on making my living with them though...

One product they have I've been curious about is a little 220v TIG 
welder for about $200. Anyone ever use one of these?  If so, can you 
comment on their usefulness? Do they work well enough for occasional 
hobbyist use? Obviously there's no foot pedal, but I think thats 
probably fairly easy to remedy...

Uh oh, hope I'm not hijacking this thread...

Marc



Chris Kantarjiev wrote:
> When I was shopping for a welder a while back (I *still* haven't
> bought one), the usual big 3 were recommended, along with
>
>  www.htpweld.com
>
> Miller and Hobart are same company. Hobart is their consumer product, Miller
> is their commercial product. Both are excellent machines.  Lincoln is also a
> name brand machine and a good choice. Parts are easy to find on a saturday
> afternoon at the welding supply store!

From bspidell at comcast.net  Fri Sep 28 11:35:03 2007
From: bspidell at comcast.net (Bob Spidell)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:35:03 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs 220v)
In-Reply-To: <46FD346B.1090902@smarc.net>
References: <200709281614.l8SGESl7003839@moose.dimebank.com>
	<46FD346B.1090902@smarc.net>
Message-ID: <46FD3B47.1040202@comcast.net>

I have the Lincoln Weld-Pak 100, converted for MIG.  It works fine for light
use, but the voltage is only adjustable in (I think) four steps.  If I 
ever buy another
MIG, I'll get a MiG-29--just kidding--I'd look for one with "infinitely 
variable"
voltage.  Sometimes, the voltage (or is it current?) setting on the 
Weld-Pak is
either too high or too low, and with no setting in between it's more 
difficult to
get a perfect weld.


bs

***************************************************************
Bob Spidell         San Jose, CA        bspidell at comcast.net
'67 Austin-Healey 3000             '56 Austin-Healey 100M
***************************************************************

From jibjib at att.net  Fri Sep 28 23:50:19 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:50:19 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs 220v)
In-Reply-To: <46FD3B47.1040202@comcast.net>
References: <200709281614.l8SGESl7003839@moose.dimebank.com><46FD346B.1090902@smarc.net>
	<46FD3B47.1040202@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <030701c8025c$9f5984f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

While the infinitely adjustable is more adjustable, the four step, on an 110
V machine can achieve the same quality of bead.  

I had the opportunity to run both machines, a Hobart Handler 145 and a
similarly sized Lincoln.  The Hobart was a 4 stepper, the Lincoln was an
infinite adjustment.  I bought the Hobart, as it was just as easy to lay
down a variety of good beads and it was less expensive with similar duty
cycles.  Personally, I look at the difference in the adjustment style as a
non-issue.  

In my opinion, adjusting the wire "stick-out" on your stinger has a more
significant effect on the quality of the arc, than does the difference
between the steps on the voltage adjustment.  You can make that arc sizzle
just fine using just the clicks. 

Also, you can't go wrong with any of the big three and this is not the first
time I have heard folks I trust, like Chris, mention that HTP makes a decent
machine.
 
Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob
Spidell
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:35 AM
To: Marc
Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
vs 220v)

I have the Lincoln Weld-Pak 100, converted for MIG.  It works fine for light
use, but the voltage is only adjustable in (I think) four steps.  If I ever
buy another MIG, I'll get a MiG-29--just kidding--I'd look for one with
"infinitely variable"
voltage.  Sometimes, the voltage (or is it current?) setting on the Weld-Pak
is either too high or too low, and with no setting in between it's more
difficult to get a perfect weld.


bs

***************************************************************
Bob Spidell         San Jose, CA        bspidell at comcast.net
'67 Austin-Healey 3000             '56 Austin-Healey 100M
***************************************************************
_______________________________________________
jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From jibjib at att.net  Sat Sep 29 00:05:53 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:05:53 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs220v)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709281039540.7953@mephisto.banklogic.net>
References: <000001c8018a$89daed80$4101a8c0@CARROOM><01b801c8019f$95d12a40$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0709281039540.7953@mephisto.banklogic.net>
Message-ID: <030801c8025e$d225c090$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Mark,

I made that comment because I know that the big three will have parts
available for years to come.  If someone comes to Harbor Freight with a less
expensive welder tomorrow, they will buy the welders from the less expensive
source and throw their name on that one instead.  This eliminates the spare
parts supply for the welder.  I can still order the cooling motor fan blade
for my 40 year old, crank adjustable, Miller 220v stick welder that my son
will likely be using 20 years from now. 

I buy some of the "Cheap-crap" Chinese tools too.  It's hard to beat their
"bang for the buck.".  I remember a few years ago when another list was
crowing about how great the Harbor Freight electric impact wrench was.  Now
they are saying that one is gone and the new one is junk.  Harbor freight
buys on price.  I do not believe they have loyalty to any vendor so (in my
opinion) the parts you may need for your welder 5 years from now, may not be
available from HF at that time.  Perhaps you can find and buy from the
original vendor.  On the other hand, Wrenches, hand tools, and inexpensive
electric tools, yup, I'll sometimes buy HF.  Some are good, some are not.
Again, opinion here, but I feel that it all comes down to how much of an
investment you are willing to walk away from.

Jack 

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark
Andy
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:44 AM
To: 'Shop Talk'
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
vs220v)

Howdy,

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007, Jack Brooks wrote:
> Please also check out Miller, Hobart and Lincoln (in no real order of
> preference) as Harbor Freight welders are not nearly the same now, as 
> what you own. Any of these three brands can be considered 
> interchangeable with regard to quality and features.  They will be 
> slightly different, but essentially the same quality and performance 
> and most importantly spare parts will be available, both now and into 
> the foreseeable future.

I'd also second the recommendation of a name brand welder, particularly
Miller (I currently own a Lincoln SP-175Plus, and I like the Miller 175
better).

But my real point in posting is wondering about the truth to the "parts
won't be available for Harbor Freight stuff in the future" implication
above...

Around me, Harbor Freight retail stores are fairly common and at least two
more have been opened in the past couple years (Youngstown/Pittsburgh area,
btw).  I've been going there for years.  I've needed parts a few times.

Each of those times, service, availability, etc. etc. has been the same as
most any other place I'd go and its been getting better in my mind for
years.

At what point do the "crap chinese tools" become the norm?  Its already to
the point for me where I tend to buy them first, unless I see a real need
for something name brand...

Mark
_______________________________________________
jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sat Sep 29 09:20:59 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:20:59 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs220v)
In-Reply-To: <030801c8025e$d225c090$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
Message-ID: <20070929152100.IHNY20630.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>

> If someone comes to 
> Harbor Freight with a less expensive welder tomorrow, they 
> will buy the welders from the less expensive source and throw 
> their name on that one instead.  This eliminates the spare 
> parts supply for the welder.

Seems like a non-sequitor to me.  My GM dealer still carries parts for
Oldsmobiles even though GM no longer builds them.

Haven't tried with HF, but when I needed a part for my obsolete "cheap
Chinese" drill press, Enco (another place similar to HF but specializing in
machine tools) had no trouble selling me a replacement casting even though
they no longer sold that model of drill press.

Randall

From kennedybc at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 09:51:52 2007
From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:51:52 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
In-Reply-To: <20070929152100.IHNY20630.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <C323C2A8.928%kennedybc@comcast.net>

My neighbor has my old 4 KW generator. (I should have sold it to someone
much further away.) The tapped hole in the Al head to connect the muffler
corroded so badly I don't see an easy way to fix it. So, I looked for a
replacement. Harbor Freight seems to have the nicest selection, Chicago
Electric. Any recommendations, thoughts?
Thanks
Brian
kennedybc at comcast.net

From rkg at teleport.com  Sat Sep 29 10:02:19 2007
From: rkg at teleport.com (Richard George)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:02:19 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
References: <C323C2A8.928%kennedybc@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <46FE770B.6000904@teleport.com>

Brian,

how about just drilling out the hole and putting a helicoil in it? 
 Seems kind of extreme to get rid of a working generator because you 
can't hang the
muffler on it :-)

Best,

rkg
(Richard George)

>My neighbor has my old 4 KW generator. (I should have sold it to someone
>much further away.) The tapped hole in the Al head to connect the muffler
>corroded so badly I don't see an easy way to fix it. So, I looked for a
>replacement. Harbor Freight seems to have the nicest selection, Chicago
>Electric. Any recommendations, thoughts?
>Thanks
>Brian

From kennedybc at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 10:13:19 2007
From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C. Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:13:19 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
In-Reply-To: <46FE770B.6000904@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <C323F1DF.655C%kennedybc@comcast.net>

I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's almost
20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole and I don't
think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is pretty badly
corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look like there is enough
material left.
Brian
-- 
Brian C. Kennedy
2711 North Maple Road                Home  734 994 5205
Ann Arbor, MI 48103                    Cell 734 649 8548
 Fax 734 661 5108                        Email kennedybc at comcast.net



> From: Richard George <rkg at teleport.com>
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:02:19 -0700
> Cc: 'Shop Talk' <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators
> 
> Brian,
> 
> how about just drilling out the hole and putting a helicoil in it?
>  Seems kind of extreme to get rid of a working generator because you
> can't hang the
> muffler on it :-)
> 
> Best,
> 
> rkg
> (Richard George)
> 
>> My neighbor has my old 4 KW generator. (I should have sold it to someone
>> much further away.) The tapped hole in the Al head to connect the muffler
>> corroded so badly I don't see an easy way to fix it. So, I looked for a
>> replacement. Harbor Freight seems to have the nicest selection, Chicago
>> Electric. Any recommendations, thoughts?
>> Thanks
>> Brian
> _______________________________________________

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 10:25:41 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:25:41 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
In-Reply-To: <C323F1DF.655C%kennedybc@comcast.net>
References: <46FE770B.6000904@teleport.com>
	<C323F1DF.655C%kennedybc@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709290925m1a7b5a86q26870d64f1db2b7f@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/29/07, Brian C. Kennedy <kennedybc at comcast.net> wrote:
> I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's almost
> 20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole and I don't
> think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is pretty badly
> corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look like there is enough
> material left.

What about about epoxying a stud in place?

From jniolon at bham.rr.com  Sat Sep 29 10:42:27 2007
From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:42:27 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] old mower parts
Message-ID: <00b601c802b7$b8a9b6e0$6401a8c0@niolon>

I work on my mowers ( a lot) in my shop ( required shop content)

Does anyone know of a dealer/scrap/boneyard person that might have deck 
parts for a 20-25 year old Yazoo commercial big wheel mower ??  model 
40-5-22-B.   I need some drive parts and can't locate them..

tia
John


Frame every so-called disaster with these words: "In five years... will this 
matter?" 

From kennedybc at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 10:41:28 2007
From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C. Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:41:28 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709290925m1a7b5a86q26870d64f1db2b7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C323F878.6563%kennedybc@comcast.net>

I tried my trusty JB weld (600F) but the hot exhaust gases burned it right
up. 
-- 
Brian C. Kennedy
2711 North Maple Road                Home  734 994 5205
Ann Arbor, MI 48103                    Cell 734 649 8548
 Fax 734 661 5108                        Email kennedybc at comcast.net



> From: David Scheidt <dmscheidt at gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:25:41 -0400
> To: "Brian C. Kennedy" <kennedybc at comcast.net>
> Cc: Richard George <rkg at teleport.com>, Team shop-talk
> <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators
> 
> On 9/29/07, Brian C. Kennedy <kennedybc at comcast.net> wrote:
>> I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's almost
>> 20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole and I don't
>> think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is pretty badly
>> corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look like there is enough
>> material left.
> 
> What about about epoxying a stud in place?

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sat Sep 29 11:01:54 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:01:54 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
References: <C323F1DF.655C%kennedybc@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001a01c802ba$709e8a30$6e01a8c0@KARL>

Solution -- this is the ideal excuse to buy a TIG welder  ;-)



>I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's almost
> 20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole and I 
> don't
> think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is pretty badly
> corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look like there is 
> enough
> material left.
> Brian
> -- 
> Brian C. Kennedy
> 2711 North Maple Road                Home  734 994 5205
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103                    Cell 734 649 8548
> Fax 734 661 5108                        Email kennedybc at comcast.net
>
>
>
>> From: Richard George <rkg at teleport.com>
>> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:02:19 -0700
>> Cc: 'Shop Talk' <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators
>>
>> Brian,
>>
>> how about just drilling out the hole and putting a helicoil in it?
>>  Seems kind of extreme to get rid of a working generator because you
>> can't hang the
>> muffler on it :-)
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> rkg
>> (Richard George)
>>
>>> My neighbor has my old 4 KW generator. (I should have sold it to someone
>>> much further away.) The tapped hole in the Al head to connect the 
>>> muffler
>>> corroded so badly I don't see an easy way to fix it. So, I looked for a
>>> replacement. Harbor Freight seems to have the nicest selection, Chicago
>>> Electric. Any recommendations, thoughts?
>>> Thanks
>>> Brian
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> kvacek at ameritech.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From kennedybc at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 11:12:03 2007
From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C. Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:12:03 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
In-Reply-To: <001a01c802ba$709e8a30$6e01a8c0@KARL>
Message-ID: <C323FFA3.6566%kennedybc@comcast.net>

And I'm probably going to need a new truck to bring it home.
-- 
Brian C. Kennedy
2711 North Maple Road                Home  734 994 5205
Ann Arbor, MI 48103                    Cell 734 649 8548
 Fax 734 661 5108                        Email kennedybc at comcast.net



> From: Karl Vacek <kvacek at ameritech.net>
> Reply-To: Karl Vacek <KVacek at Ameritech.net>
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:01:54 -0500
> Cc: Team shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators
> 
> Solution -- this is the ideal excuse to buy a TIG welder  ;-)
> 
> 
> 
>> I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's almost
>> 20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole and I
>> don't
>> think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is pretty badly
>> corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look like there is
>> enough
>> material left.
>> Brian
>> -- 
>> Brian C. Kennedy
>> 2711 North Maple Road                Home  734 994 5205
>> Ann Arbor, MI 48103                    Cell 734 649 8548
>> Fax 734 661 5108                        Email kennedybc at comcast.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Richard George <rkg at teleport.com>
>>> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:02:19 -0700
>>> Cc: 'Shop Talk' <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators
>>> 
>>> Brian,
>>> 
>>> how about just drilling out the hole and putting a helicoil in it?
>>>  Seems kind of extreme to get rid of a working generator because you
>>> can't hang the
>>> muffler on it :-)
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> rkg
>>> (Richard George)
>>> 
>>>> My neighbor has my old 4 KW generator. (I should have sold it to someone
>>>> much further away.) The tapped hole in the Al head to connect the
>>>> muffler
>>>> corroded so badly I don't see an easy way to fix it. So, I looked for a
>>>> replacement. Harbor Freight seems to have the nicest selection, Chicago
>>>> Electric. Any recommendations, thoughts?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Brian
>>> _______________________________________________
>> _______________________________________________
>> kvacek at ameritech.net
>> 
>> Shop-talk mailing list
>> 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
> _______________________________________________
> kennedybc at comcast.net
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sat Sep 29 11:22:56 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:22:56 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
References: <C323FFA3.6566%kennedybc@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003801c802bd$60b81390$6e01a8c0@KARL>

And the truck needs a portable generator to let you take the TIG welder over 
to the neighbor's to fix his generator...





> And I'm probably going to need a new truck to bring it home.
> -- 
> Brian C. Kennedy
> 2711 North Maple Road                Home  734 994 5205
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103                    Cell 734 649 8548
> Fax 734 661 5108                        Email kennedybc at comcast.net
>
>
>
>> From: Karl Vacek <kvacek at ameritech.net>
>> Reply-To: Karl Vacek <KVacek at Ameritech.net>
>> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:01:54 -0500
>> Cc: Team shop-talk <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators
>>
>> Solution -- this is the ideal excuse to buy a TIG welder  ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>> I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's 
>>> almost
>>> 20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole and I
>>> don't
>>> think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is pretty badly
>>> corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look like there is
>>> enough
>>> material left.
>>> Brian
>>> -- 
>>> Brian C. Kennedy
>>> 2711 North Maple Road                Home  734 994 5205
>>> Ann Arbor, MI 48103                    Cell 734 649 8548
>>> Fax 734 661 5108                        Email kennedybc at comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Richard George <rkg at teleport.com>
>>>> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:02:19 -0700
>>>> Cc: 'Shop Talk' <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators
>>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>>
>>>> how about just drilling out the hole and putting a helicoil in it?
>>>>  Seems kind of extreme to get rid of a working generator because you
>>>> can't hang the
>>>> muffler on it :-)
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> rkg
>>>> (Richard George)
>>>>
>>>>> My neighbor has my old 4 KW generator. (I should have sold it to 
>>>>> someone
>>>>> much further away.) The tapped hole in the Al head to connect the
>>>>> muffler
>>>>> corroded so badly I don't see an easy way to fix it. So, I looked for 
>>>>> a
>>>>> replacement. Harbor Freight seems to have the nicest selection, 
>>>>> Chicago
>>>>> Electric. Any recommendations, thoughts?
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Brian
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kvacek at ameritech.net
>>>
>>> Shop-talk mailing list
>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk
>> _______________________________________________
>> kennedybc at comcast.net
>>
>> Shop-talk mailing list
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sat Sep 29 12:31:14 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:31:14 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
References: <C323F1DF.655C%kennedybc@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <004d01c802c6$ec0db2c0$6e01a8c0@KARL>

Seriously, there actually is a cheap solution.  There's a torch-welding 
product that's been around for decades - when I saw and bought it in 1970 or 
so it was called "Lumiweld".  It's not too hard to work with if you don't 
mind the job looking sloppy, and it can be worked although it's nearly as 
hard as steel.  You just need a propane or mapp-gas torch to melt it - you 
could use it to attach a female aluminum coupling onto the head and then 
reattach the muffler.

I saw some of this material at Home Dipstick a year or two ago - no idea 
what it was called.

Karl




>I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's almost
> 20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole and I 
> don't
> think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is pretty badly
> corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look like there is 
> enough
> material left.
> Brian

From watsonm05 at comcast.net  Sat Sep 29 15:41:55 2007
From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:41:55 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw:  Generators
Message-ID: <01a101c802e1$8e9621c0$83be3847@watsongxpejt9r>

Hi, All,

    Karl, I've seen the same type of product.

    Brian, one is available from http://www.muggyweld.com/.  Their videos 
make their family of products look like magic.  They might be too low 
temperature though.

    Enjoy,

Mark Watson


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karl Vacek" <kvacek at ameritech.net>
Cc: "Team shop-talk" <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators


> Seriously, there actually is a cheap solution.  There's a torch-welding
> product that's been around for decades - when I saw and bought it in 1970 
> or
> so it was called "Lumiweld".  It's not too hard to work with if you don't
> mind the job looking sloppy, and it can be worked although it's nearly as
> hard as steel.  You just need a propane or mapp-gas torch to melt it - you
> could use it to attach a female aluminum coupling onto the head and then
> reattach the muffler.
>
> I saw some of this material at Home Dipstick a year or two ago - no idea
> what it was called.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
>>I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's almost
>> 20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole and I
>> don't
>> think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is pretty badly
>> corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look like there is
>> enough
>> material left.
>> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> watsonm05 at comcast.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk 

From jibjib at att.net  Sat Sep 29 16:57:32 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:57:32 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs220v)
In-Reply-To: <20070929152100.IHNY20630.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <030801c8025e$d225c090$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>
	<20070929152100.IHNY20630.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <000001c802ec$1f1beb80$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

Randall,

This is exactly my point.  GM carries the parts because GM is a
manufacturer.  HF is a reseller, buying a commodity.  I am concerned that
they will not carry spares for long, if at all.  Also, I believe Enco is an
entirely different type of company. 

I could be wrong about HF.  HF may stock or be able to order spares for
their welders, etc. for a long time.  I know I can walk in to a weld shop in
virtually any town in the USA and either buy or order a part for a Hobart,
Miller or Lincoln .  This may not be true of HF's "brands".  

The bottom line, as I stated in my earlier post is that "it all comes down
to how much of an investment you are willing to walk away from."

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of
Randall
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:21 AM
To: 'Shop Talk'
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
vs220v)

> If someone comes to
> Harbor Freight with a less expensive welder tomorrow, they will buy 
> the welders from the less expensive source and throw their name on 
> that one instead.  This eliminates the spare parts supply for the 
> welder.

Seems like a non-sequitor to me.  My GM dealer still carries parts for
Oldsmobiles even though GM no longer builds them.

Haven't tried with HF, but when I needed a part for my obsolete "cheap
Chinese" drill press, Enco (another place similar to HF but specializing in
machine tools) had no trouble selling me a replacement casting even though
they no longer sold that model of drill press.

Randall
_______________________________________________
jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From jibjib at att.net  Sat Sep 29 17:02:17 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:02:17 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
In-Reply-To: <004d01c802c6$ec0db2c0$6e01a8c0@KARL>
References: <C323F1DF.655C%kennedybc@comcast.net>
	<004d01c802c6$ec0db2c0$6e01a8c0@KARL>
Message-ID: <000201c802ec$c8f20220$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

While I've never used the low temp aluminum weld rod product, I know of
folks that like it.  For this issues though, I'd thread a male pipe into the
corroded hole, then weld a fillet around the joint between the pipe and the
head.  That may be easier than adding a female coupling to the head. Do this
with the head on the compressor or on a steel plate to minimize or avoid
warping.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Karl
Vacek
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:31 AM
Cc: Team shop-talk
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Generators

Seriously, there actually is a cheap solution.  There's a torch-welding
product that's been around for decades - when I saw and bought it in 1970 or
so it was called "Lumiweld".  It's not too hard to work with if you don't
mind the job looking sloppy, and it can be worked although it's nearly as
hard as steel.  You just need a propane or mapp-gas torch to melt it - you
could use it to attach a female aluminum coupling onto the head and then
reattach the muffler.

I saw some of this material at Home Dipstick a year or two ago - no idea
what it was called.

Karl




>I share your view on replacing a working generator even though it's 
>almost  20 years old and doesn't owe anybody anything. It's a 3/4" hole 
>and I  don't  think I'm equipped to handle one that large. Also, it is 
>pretty badly  corroded at the bottom of the hole and it doesn't look 
>like there is  enough  material left.
> Brian
_______________________________________________
jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sat Sep 29 17:06:16 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:06:16 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw:  Generators
References: <01a101c802e1$8e9621c0$83be3847@watsongxpejt9r>
Message-ID: <000c01c802ed$5723ae40$6e01a8c0@KARL>

I don't think you have to worry about the temperature - at least not the 
stuff I had.  First, it's not soft solder, and it takes a pretty fair amount 
of heat - I doubt that the head gets anywhere near that hot.  Even if it's 
directly hit by exhaust, the base aluminum would carry away heat pretty 
fast.

Second, it chemically reacts with the aluminum to bond, and the resulting 
material is harder to remelt.  Nonetheless, it might be a concern.

I thought the stuff was pretty useless for what I originally wanted it for 
because it's so hard to work later (it's hard not to gouge the aluminum and 
leave most of the filler when trying to smooth a joint), so after initially 
trying it I never used it much.  There may be a few sticks in my 
miscellaneous brazing stuff to this day...

Even their own demo guys usually did some pretty ugly joints, but their 
fast-paced demo covered that to a great extent.  In any event though, it 
does work for down and dirty repairs.




>    Karl, I've seen the same type of product.
>
>    Brian, one is available from http://www.muggyweld.com/.  Their videos
> make their family of products look like magic.  They might be too low
> temperature though.
>
>    Enjoy,
>
> Mark Watson

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sat Sep 29 18:52:41 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:52:41 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generators
In-Reply-To: <004d01c802c6$ec0db2c0$6e01a8c0@KARL>
Message-ID: <20070930005242.TYXS20630.mta9.adelphia.net@randall>

> I saw some of this material at Home Dipstick a year or two 
> ago - no idea what it was called.

Me neither, but I bought some to try to repair a thermostat housing.  My
propane torch wouldn't get the housing hot enough to melt the stick.  Mapp
gas should do fine, though.

Randall

From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net  Sat Sep 29 21:00:39 2007
From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 23:00:39 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders 115 v
 vs220v)
Message-ID: <001f01c8030e$156c3e60$97157247@fred8kwiskhcfu>

> Randall,
>
> This is exactly my point.  GM carries the parts because GM is a
> manufacturer.
============================================================================================================
GM carries the parts because it is a =="Federal Law"== that the parts for 
new cars must still be available at least 10 years after date of  auto 
buildout."FT" 

From mistertwo at sbcglobal.net  Sat Sep 29 21:22:28 2007
From: mistertwo at sbcglobal.net (Rand E)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 20:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders
 115 v vs220v)
In-Reply-To: <001f01c8030e$156c3e60$97157247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
Message-ID: <611390.83088.qm@web82406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Can you show me the law that requires this?  The
reason I ask is I have heard this statement before but
no one I've asked has ever been able to produce the
law.  I think it's a common but accepted
misconception.  I had auto parts that were not
available anymore and the vehicle was less than 10
years old.  

Thanks.
Randy

--- FRED E THOMAS <frede.thomas2 at verizon.net> wrote:

> > Randall,
> >
> > This is exactly my point.  GM carries the parts
> because GM is a
> > manufacturer.
>
============================================================================================================
> GM carries the parts because it is a =="Federal
> Law"== that the parts for 
> new cars must still be available at least 10 years
> after date of  auto 
> buildout."FT" 
> _______________________________________________
> mistertwo at sbcglobal.net
> 
> Shop-talk mailing list
> 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 21:24:17 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 23:24:17 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders
 115 v vs220v)
In-Reply-To: <001f01c8030e$156c3e60$97157247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
References: <001f01c8030e$156c3e60$97157247@fred8kwiskhcfu>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709292024t365d3b4ej8b9090418b4a0232@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/29/07, FRED E THOMAS <frede.thomas2 at verizon.net> wrote:
> > Randall,
> >
> > This is exactly my point.  GM carries the parts because GM is a
> > manufacturer.
> ============================================================================================================
> GM carries the parts because it is a =="Federal Law"== that the parts for
> new cars must still be available at least 10 years after date of  auto
> buildout."FT"

You want to give me a cite for that claim?  I'm aware of no such
requirement.  GM, and every other car maker, knows that there's money
to be made selling parts.

That's not the case for cheap tools, where the cost to diagnose a
problem, obtain the parts, and install them can easily exceed the cost
to replace the machine.
-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sat Sep 29 22:42:55 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:42:55 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders
 115 v vs220v)
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709292024t365d3b4ej8b9090418b4a0232@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070930044255.YIMP6229.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>

> You want to give me a cite for that claim?  I'm aware of no 
> such requirement.  GM, and every other car maker, knows that 
> there's money to be made selling parts.

I don't know the citation, but I remember hearing about it way back in the
70's when the very first US consumer protection acts were being passed.

And I also know that GM quits selling some spare parts almost exactly 10
years after the car was last sold.

Randall

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 22:57:23 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 00:57:23 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders
 115 v vs220v)
In-Reply-To: <20070930044255.YIMP6229.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <2400a5d40709292024t365d3b4ej8b9090418b4a0232@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070930044255.YIMP6229.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709292157w5953f359p6faf9569916fc09@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/07, Randall <tr3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > You want to give me a cite for that claim?  I'm aware of no
> > such requirement.  GM, and every other car maker, knows that
> > there's money to be made selling parts.
>
> I don't know the citation, but I remember hearing about it way back in the
> 70's when the very first US consumer protection acts were being passed.
>

I've heard this (with different time periods) a number of times, but
no one has ever been able to come up with an actual cite.  I've run
into cars I couldn't get parts for that were only two or three years
old.

> And I also know that GM quits selling some spare parts almost exactly 10
> years after the car was last sold.

They may have other obligations to make parts available for some
period of time.  Contracts with their outside suppliers, for instance,
or a contract with a large customer (uncle sam, probably) that
requires spares be available for a specified time.  They may also have
financial accounting data that shows it's not worth selling many parts
after 10 years.   It costs lots of money to keep things in warehouses.
 (Tax law changed in the early 80s to make it much more expensive to
maintain parts inventories.)


-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From kvacek at ameritech.net  Sun Sep 30 07:18:39 2007
From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 08:18:39 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders
 115 v vs220v)
References: <2400a5d40709292024t365d3b4ej8b9090418b4a0232@mail.gmail.com><20070930044255.YIMP6229.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
	<2400a5d40709292157w5953f359p6faf9569916fc09@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004e01c80364$6a943590$6e01a8c0@KARL>

No citation, but in 1976 I had a friend who had a contract with AMC to make 
the chromed die cast R-A-M-B-L-E-R letters for some model where the dies had 
already been destroyed, but the stock had run out before the time limit. 
Since the last Rambler model was in 1969, it must've been at least 8-9 
years.

Karl


> I've heard this (with different time periods) a number of times, but
> no one has ever been able to come up with an actual cite.  I've run
> into cars I couldn't get parts for that were only two or three years
> old.

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sun Sep 30 07:32:30 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:32:30 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Harbor Freight & spare parts(was: MIG Welders
 115 v vs220v)
In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40709292157w5953f359p6faf9569916fc09@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2400a5d40709292024t365d3b4ej8b9090418b4a0232@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070930044255.YIMP6229.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>
	<2400a5d40709292157w5953f359p6faf9569916fc09@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46FFA56E.2070408@xxiii.com>

>>> You want to give me a cite for that claim?  I'm aware of no
>>> such requirement.  GM, and every other car maker, knows that
>>> there's money to be made selling parts.

I couldn't find anything definite on it, but I've read it a few times 
over the years in "Car & Driver";  usually somehow related to a 
manufacturer not selling a foreign model here, or closing up US 
operations all together.

Googleing got a #1 hit at Snopes.com, the site dedicated to debunking 
urban legends, but it was only an off-topic forum post.

   -Wayne

From dirtbeard at pacbell.net  Sun Sep 30 10:15:19 2007
From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:15:19 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
Message-ID: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>

Hi guys,

I know we discussed this several times, but since my wife had not yet hit a
cart in the garage with half full oil drain pan sitting on it with her car
turning the drain pan upside down, I was not paying attention to the thread. I
had filled my five gallon oil container and needed to take it to the recycler
before I could empty the rest of the drain pain.  :(

I tried searching the archives but could not find the discussion.

Anyway, now it is salient as I have about a seven square foot fresh oil stain
on my floor. I soaked it up as best I could with rags, but now I need to get
out the oil that soaked into the concrete. I have a pressure washer if that is
the best, but I know there are powders and special cleaners for this type of
stain. I was just hoping to hear what you have tried that works best.

Sorry I was not paying attention last time we discussed this. Thanks in
advance.

best,

doug

'72 BSA B50SS
'74 Triumph TR6
'01 Harley XLH883
'03 GMC Cargo Van

From bn1 at pacbell.net  Sun Sep 30 11:07:45 2007
From: bn1 at pacbell.net (Bill)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 10:07:45 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
In-Reply-To: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>
References: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>
Message-ID: <46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>

Soak up some more of it by spreading down cheap Kitty Litter, putting on 
your boots and grinding it in by dancing a Jig on top.  It's amazing how 
clean that will make it and it's all I've ever done.  I'm sure others 
can take it from there, though.  HTH

Bill Barnett
Santa Ana, CA
'53 BN1 #663

old dirtbeard wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I know we discussed this several times, but since my wife had not yet hit a
> cart in the garage with half full oil drain pan sitting on it with her car
> turning the drain pan upside down, I was not paying attention to the thread. I
> had filled my five gallon oil container and needed to take it to the recycler
> before I could empty the rest of the drain pain.  :(
>
> I tried searching the archives but could not find the discussion.
>
> Anyway, now it is salient as I have about a seven square foot fresh oil stain
> on my floor. I soaked it up as best I could with rags, but now I need to get
> out the oil that soaked into the concrete. I have a pressure washer if that is
> the best, but I know there are powders and special cleaners for this type of
> stain. I was just hoping to hear what you have tried that works best.
>
> Sorry I was not paying attention last time we discussed this. Thanks in
> advance.
>
> best,
>
> doug
>
> '72 BSA B50SS
> '74 Triumph TR6
> '01 Harley XLH883
> '03 GMC Cargo Van
> _______________________________________________
> bn1 at pacbell.net
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sun Sep 30 11:30:26 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:30:26 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
In-Reply-To: <46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
References: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>
	<46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709301030p2b7458a7n46a7da69bdbcb256@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/07, Bill <bn1 at pacbell.net> wrote:
> Soak up some more of it by spreading down cheap Kitty Litter, putting on
> your boots and grinding it in by dancing a Jig on top.  It's amazing how
> clean that will make it and it's all I've ever done.  I'm sure others
> can take it from there, though.  HTH

After you've let the ground in kitty litter sit for a day or so, dry
cement works well.  It's caustic, so don't let the powder get all over
things.

-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From wmc_st at xxiii.com  Sun Sep 30 11:47:09 2007
From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:47:09 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
In-Reply-To: <46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
References: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>
	<46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <46FFE11D.8000008@xxiii.com>

Bill wrote:
> Soak up some more of it by spreading down cheap Kitty Litter, putting on 
> your boots and grinding it in by dancing a Jig on top.  It's amazing how 
> clean that will make it and it's all I've ever done.  I'm sure others 
> can take it from there, though.  HTH

I was gonna say the exact same thing.  the litter or oil dry will soak 
it up faster that the concrete, so putting it down ASAP after the spill 
is important.  Sweep it up in a day or so.  Then I like to spray it down 
with brake cleaner or other harsh solvent and repeat the litter grind.

   -Wayne

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Sun Sep 30 14:36:00 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:36:00 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
In-Reply-To: <46FFE11D.8000008@xxiii.com>
References: <46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
	<000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883> <46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070930133437.03301588@incoming.verizon.net>

At 01:47 PM  9/30/2007  -0400, Wayne wrote:
>Bill wrote:
> > Soak up some more of it by spreading down cheap Kitty Litter, putting on
> > your boots and grinding it in by dancing a Jig on top.  It's amazing how
> > clean that will make it and it's all I've ever done.  I'm sure others
> > can take it from there, though.  HTH
>
>I was gonna say the exact same thing.  the litter or oil dry will soak
>it up faster that the concrete, so putting it down ASAP after the spill
>is important.  Sweep it up in a day or so.  Then I like to spray it down
>with brake cleaner or other harsh solvent and repeat the litter grind.


After the kitty litter (or sawdust in my case), full strength Simple Green 
usually works to remove any residue.  Scrub it in with a broom or brush, 
let it sit a while, then more kitty litter/sawdust.

Dave C

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Sun Sep 30 14:52:56 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:52:56 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <01a101c802e1$8e9621c0$83be3847@watsongxpejt9r>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070930133656.032fb790@incoming.verizon.net>

Is it time for the generator thread again?  Maybe past time for the Gulf 
Coast/hurricane-prone folks....

Anyway, I am going through my annual quandary whether or not to replace my 
old Hobart 8KW welder/generator.  I live in the rural PNW and just about 
every year we get at least one snowstorm that takes the power lines down 
for a while.  Last year it happened three or four times.   I have two 
manual transfer switches, one for the pump house and one for the house, and 
I run the well pump, propane furnace, fridge, freezer, microwave and some 
lights.  We also have a big woodstove, and so things go along fairly 
normally once I get the generator fired up.  The generator has a big Onan 2 
cylinder air cooled engine, and it had just been rebuilt from the block up 
when I bought it about 10 or 12 years ago.  It has never failed me (yet) 
but it's starting to get old, and it uses a LOT of gasoline, which is the 
main problem.

The generator uses more than a gallon an hour, and it has a seven or eight 
gallon tank, and uses a crankcase pressure/vacuum operated fuel pump 
(potential failure point).  I also keep three or four five gallon gas cans 
filled up during the winter (w/Stabil), and so far I haven't had any 
trouble refililng them on my way to work.  However, a widespread power 
outage could also take the local gas stations out, and once I went through 
my fuel stash, and the fuel in the motorcycles, I would be stuck.

We had considered a diesel, as I also have a couple of diesel tractors, and 
diesel is a lot easier to store (and probably...er..."find"... in a SHTF 
situation), but low speed (1800 rpm) diesel generators in the 10Kw size are 
hard to find and very expensive, $10K on up.

Yesterday I saw this in the Northern Tools 
catalog: 
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_398826_398826

Honda engine, gas or propane fueled, way more compact than the Hobart, and 
probably has better fuel consumption, too.  I could run it off my shop 
heater propane tank for quite a while, and still have gasoline for a backup.

Any thoughts or feedback?

Thanks
Dave C

From bobkegel at seanet.com  Sun Sep 30 15:14:53 2007
From: bobkegel at seanet.com (Bob Kegel)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:14:53 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
In-Reply-To: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>
Message-ID: <000001c803a6$f24ebcc0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01>

I've had good results with slopping on lots of mineral spirits, agitating
with a scrub brush, and covering everything with kitty litter. Let sit for
24 hours and sweep up. 

Bob Kegel
Aberdeen, WA

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun Sep 30 15:22:12 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:22:12 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070930133656.032fb790@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20070930212211.MZRS14677.mta13.adelphia.net@randall>

> Any thoughts or feedback?

Have you tried giving the old Onan a tune-up, especially adjusting the
mixture ?  A gallon/hour sounds kind of high even if it's loaded to the full
8 kW.

Randall

From cavanadd at verizon.net  Sun Sep 30 15:35:05 2007
From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:35:05 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <20070930212211.MZRS14677.mta13.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070930133656.032fb790@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070930143204.0154ad08@incoming.verizon.net>

I'm just glad it starts and runs....I'm reluctant to dink with it.  I don't 
think there is much in the way in adjustment on the carb; I just try to 
keep the oil changed, linkages lubed and everything working the way it's 
supposed to.  I have already had to repair the fuel pump once; I had to 
plug up a broken port and use another one.  If I keep it I should get a 
full set of spares for it, I suppose; fuel pump, carb parts, and so on, 
although I could provably rig a gravity feed for the fuel if need be.

At 02:22 PM  9/30/2007  -0700, Randall wrote:
> > Any thoughts or feedback?
>
>Have you tried giving the old Onan a tune-up, especially adjusting the
>mixture ?  A gallon/hour sounds kind of high even if it's loaded to the full
>8 kW.
>
>Randall
>_______________________________________________
>cavanadd at verizon.net
>
>Shop-talk mailing list
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun Sep 30 16:04:27 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:04:27 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070930143204.0154ad08@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20070930220427.QUAX6229.mta16.adelphia.net@randall>

> I don't think there is much in the way in 
> adjustment on the carb;

Could be, I'm no expert.  But my mid-70s vintage 4.5kW Onan had adjustments
for both low and high throttle (what would be idle and main jets on a car).

> I have already had to repair the fuel pump once

After seeing what pump parts cost, I switched to a little Facet "electronic"
instead.  I got it for $10 on flea-bay, but even a new one is less than a
dealer wanted for a rebuild kit.  Since it was mounted in a motorhome above
the fuel tanks, gravity feed wasn't an option for me.

Randall

From dirtbeard at pacbell.net  Sun Sep 30 16:10:20 2007
From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:10:20 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
References: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>
	<46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <003b01c803ae$b1ed2240$2c357d80@XLH883>

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bill
  To: old dirtbeard
  Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net
  Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor


  Soak up some more of it by spreading down cheap Kitty Litter, putting on
your boots and grinding it in by dancing a Jig on top.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-


Ok, so I am dancing a jig (actually, more of a clog) on the litter when I
start thinking that if someone saw me doing this and it ended up on YouTube,
it could be pretty embarrassing.  :)

It is working like a champ, though. I also used my heavy floor jack with large
steel wheels to roll through the litter. It really pulverized and ground in
the litter (also no YouTube risk with this one).

I was thinking that if I had a water filled lawn roller, it would be pretty
easy to clean up a large mess in no time. Or a floor buffer...

Also, my wife assured me that she did not cause the mess and that it was like
that when she pulled in the garage. I believe her and wanted to retract the
earlier misstatement.

Thanks and I'll provide an update in a day or two.

best,

doug

From clmautz at gmail.com  Sun Sep 30 16:47:54 2007
From: clmautz at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Q2hpcCBNYXV0eg==?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:47:54 +0000
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
In-Reply-To: <003b01c803ae$b1ed2240$2c357d80@XLH883>
References: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883><46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net><003b01c803ae$b1ed2240$2c357d80@XLH883>
Message-ID: <mailman.7.1191192497.12553.shop-talk@autox.team.net>

Kaolin clay (kitty litter) soaks up like 10x (from memory, maybe more) it weight in liquids.  So, sweep it up, keep it in a container, and keep using it until it no longer works.

Using mineral spirits works too, it gets under the oil and lifts it, and the clay soaks it up.

Dealing with the fumes sucks, though.

May have to call hazmat when you're done with that litter!  :-)

Chip

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "old dirtbeard" <dirtbeard at pacbell.net>

Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:10:20 
To:"Bill" <bn1 at pacbell.net>
Cc:shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bill
  To: old dirtbeard
  Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net
  Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 10:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor


  Soak up some more of it by spreading down cheap Kitty Litter, putting on
your boots and grinding it in by dancing a Jig on top.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-


Ok, so I am dancing a jig (actually, more of a clog) on the litter when I
start thinking that if someone saw me doing this and it ended up on YouTube,
it could be pretty embarrassing.  :)

It is working like a champ, though. I also used my heavy floor jack with large
steel wheels to roll through the litter. It really pulverized and ground in
the litter (also no YouTube risk with this one).

I was thinking that if I had a water filled lawn roller, it would be pretty
easy to clean up a large mess in no time. Or a floor buffer...

Also, my wife assured me that she did not cause the mess and that it was like
that when she pulled in the garage. I believe her and wanted to retract the
earlier misstatement.

Thanks and I'll provide an update in a day or two.

best,

doug
_______________________________________________
clmautz at gmail.com

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From jblair1948 at cox.net  Sun Sep 30 17:31:20 2007
From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:31:20 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
In-Reply-To: <003b01c803ae$b1ed2240$2c357d80@XLH883>
References: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>
	<46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070930193120.00aca958@pop.east.cox.net>

At 03:10 PM 9/30/2007 -0700, old dirtbeard wrote:

>It is working like a champ, though. I also used my heavy floor jack with
large
>steel wheels to roll through the litter. It really pulverized and ground in
>the litter (also no YouTube risk with this one).

Doug,

I've found using an old brick works great!!  Easier to move around, and more
controlable than my floor jack.  If you can handle getting down on your hands 
and knees.


John

John T. Blair  WA4OHZ     email:  jblair1948 at cox.net
Va. Beach, Va             
Phone:  (757) 495-8229

          48 TR1800    48 #4 Midget    65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
     75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)    77 Spitfire    71 Saab Sonett III
                       65 Rambler Classic

Morgan:    www.team.net/www/morgan
Bricklin:  www.bricklin.org

If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

From dirtbeard at pacbell.net  Sun Sep 30 17:51:09 2007
From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:51:09 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
References: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883><46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net>
	<3.0.5.32.20070930193120.00aca958@pop.east.cox.net>
Message-ID: <004f01c803bc$c6aa1770$2c357d80@XLH883>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John T. Blair" <jblair1948 at cox.net>
To: <shop-talk at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor


> At 03:10 PM 9/30/2007 -0700, old dirtbeard wrote:
>
>>It is working like a champ, though. I also used my heavy floor jack with
> large
>>steel wheels to roll through the litter. It really pulverized and ground 
>>in
>>the litter (also no YouTube risk with this one).
>
> Doug,
>
> I've found using an old brick works great!!  Easier to move around, and 
> more
> controlable than my floor jack.  If you can handle getting down on your 
> hands
> and knees.

Dear John,

Ahh, that makes perfect sense. Heavy enough that you do not have to do all 
the work and small enough to be manageable and to be able to work the bad 
spots. Thanks for the tip, I will use it.
>
> If you can read this             - Thank a teacher!
> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!

kudos on both lines...

This is a great list.

best,

doug 

From brad.kahler at 141.com  Sun Sep 30 18:03:24 2007
From: brad.kahler at 141.com (Brad Kahler)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:03:24 -0500
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <20070930212211.MZRS14677.mta13.adelphia.net@randall>
References: <20070930212211.MZRS14677.mta13.adelphia.net@randall>
Message-ID: <4700394C.2000505@141.com>

Actually one gal/hr seems low.  The specs for one of the 10kw Onan 
gensets that I have is 1.8 gal/hr so for a 8kw to use only one gal/hr 
I'm somewhat surprised. 

Everything I've heard says it takes pretty much the same energy to 
create a set kw no matter the size of engine.  Diesel uses less gal/hr 
than gas but gas uses less gal/hr than propane or natural gas.  Natural 
gas is the least efficient to use but is easiest to get during a power 
outage. 

Our 15kw onan is setup for propane since we don't have natural gas in 
our area.

Brad


Randall wrote:
>> Any thoughts or feedback?
>>     
>
> Have you tried giving the old Onan a tune-up, especially adjusting the
> mixture ?  A gallon/hour sounds kind of high even if it's loaded to the full
> 8 kW.
>
> Randall
> _______________________________________________
> brad.kahler at 141.com
>
> Shop-talk mailing list
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From kennedybc at comcast.net  Sun Sep 30 18:09:20 2007
From: kennedybc at comcast.net (Brian C Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:09:20 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070930133656.032fb790@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <C32588C0.965%kennedybc@comcast.net>

Dave, I live in MI and we get outages fairly often, mostly dependent on when
they trim the power lines. I struggled along with a 4KW ,lug it around to th
back of  the house, gas generator. Then I got a little more affluent and saw
the Generac 12KW natural gas, fully automatic generator, about 10 years ago,
I think. At the time it was about $2500. I bought it and never regretted it
a second. It runs the whole house sans A/C. Not a lick of trouble. Of course
we have natural gas, so there's no lugging anything.

Good Luck
Brian


On 9/30/07 1:52 PM, "David C." <cavanadd at verizon.net> wrote:

> Is it time for the generator thread again?  Maybe past time for the Gulf
> Coast/hurricane-prone folks....
> 
> Anyway, I am going through my annual quandary whether or not to replace my
> old Hobart 8KW welder/generator.  I live in the rural PNW and just about
> every year we get at least one snowstorm that takes the power lines down
> for a while.  Last year it happened three or four times.   I have two
> manual transfer switches, one for the pump house and one for the house, and
> I run the well pump, propane furnace, fridge, freezer, microwave and some
> lights.  We also have a big woodstove, and so things go along fairly
> normally once I get the generator fired up.  The generator has a big Onan 2
> cylinder air cooled engine, and it had just been rebuilt from the block up
> when I bought it about 10 or 12 years ago.  It has never failed me (yet)
> but it's starting to get old, and it uses a LOT of gasoline, which is the
> main problem.
> 
> The generator uses more than a gallon an hour, and it has a seven or eight
> gallon tank, and uses a crankcase pressure/vacuum operated fuel pump
> (potential failure point).  I also keep three or four five gallon gas cans
> filled up during the winter (w/Stabil), and so far I haven't had any
> trouble refililng them on my way to work.  However, a widespread power
> outage could also take the local gas stations out, and once I went through
> my fuel stash, and the fuel in the motorcycles, I would be stuck.
> 
> We had considered a diesel, as I also have a couple of diesel tractors, and
> diesel is a lot easier to store (and probably...er..."find"... in a SHTF
> situation), but low speed (1800 rpm) diesel generators in the 10Kw size are
> hard to find and very expensive, $10K on up.
> 
> Yesterday I saw this in the Northern Tools
> catalog: 
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_398826_3988
> 26
> 
> Honda engine, gas or propane fueled, way more compact than the Hobart, and
> probably has better fuel consumption, too.  I could run it off my shop
> heater propane tank for quite a while, and still have gasoline for a backup.
> 
> Any thoughts or feedback?
> 
> Thanks
> Dave C

From mark at sccaprepared.com  Sun Sep 30 20:22:56 2007
From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:22:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Shop-talk] fresh oil stain on concrete floor
In-Reply-To: <003b01c803ae$b1ed2240$2c357d80@XLH883>
References: <000801c8037d$193072e0$2c357d80@XLH883>
	<46FFD7E1.30209@pacbell.net> <003b01c803ae$b1ed2240$2c357d80@XLH883>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0709302222320.13432@mephisto.banklogic.net>

Howdy,

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007, old dirtbeard wrote:
> Also, my wife assured me that she did not cause the mess and that it was 
> like that when she pulled in the garage. I believe her and wanted to 
> retract the earlier misstatement.

Somebody got yelled at.

:-)

Mark

From jibjib at att.net  Sun Sep 30 20:54:15 2007
From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:54:15 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070930133656.032fb790@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <01a101c802e1$8e9621c0$83be3847@watsongxpejt9r>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20070930133656.032fb790@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <003b01c803d6$5b4a2690$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion>

David,

I have to laugh.  We lost power here in Covington, WA this AM for about 4
hours and usually do for a few day stretch during the winter too.  This one
was not enough to drag out the 7.8 Kw generator, but I guess it's time to
fill up the two five gallon gas jugs.  My Triumph TR3 and TR8 are the
additional 25+ gallon reservoir in case of a major earthquake event.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net
[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David
C.
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 1:53 PM
To: shop-talk at autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread

Is it time for the generator thread again?  Maybe past time for the Gulf
Coast/hurricane-prone folks....

Anyway, I am going through my annual quandary whether or not to replace my
old Hobart 8KW welder/generator.  I live in the rural PNW and just about
every year we get at least one snowstorm that takes the power lines down 
for a while.  Last year it happened three or four times.   I have two 
manual transfer switches, one for the pump house and one for the house, and
I run the well pump, propane furnace, fridge, freezer, microwave and some
lights.  We also have a big woodstove, and so things go along fairly
normally once I get the generator fired up.  The generator has a big Onan 2
cylinder air cooled engine, and it had just been rebuilt from the block up
when I bought it about 10 or 12 years ago.  It has never failed me (yet) but
it's starting to get old, and it uses a LOT of gasoline, which is the main
problem.

The generator uses more than a gallon an hour, and it has a seven or eight
gallon tank, and uses a crankcase pressure/vacuum operated fuel pump
(potential failure point).  I also keep three or four five gallon gas cans
filled up during the winter (w/Stabil), and so far I haven't had any trouble
refililng them on my way to work.  However, a widespread power outage could
also take the local gas stations out, and once I went through my fuel stash,
and the fuel in the motorcycles, I would be stuck.

We had considered a diesel, as I also have a couple of diesel tractors, and
diesel is a lot easier to store (and probably...er..."find"... in a SHTF
situation), but low speed (1800 rpm) diesel generators in the 10Kw size are
hard to find and very expensive, $10K on up.

Yesterday I saw this in the Northern Tools
catalog: 
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_398826_39
8826

Honda engine, gas or propane fueled, way more compact than the Hobart, and
probably has better fuel consumption, too.  I could run it off my shop
heater propane tank for quite a while, and still have gasoline for a backup.

Any thoughts or feedback?

Thanks
Dave C
_______________________________________________
jibjib at att.net

Shop-talk mailing list

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk

From dmscheidt at gmail.com  Sun Sep 30 21:08:23 2007
From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:08:23 -0400
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <4700394C.2000505@141.com>
References: <20070930212211.MZRS14677.mta13.adelphia.net@randall>
	<4700394C.2000505@141.com>
Message-ID: <2400a5d40709302008m4f030a67w89d0d99601b37573@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/07, Brad Kahler <brad.kahler at 141.com> wrote:
> Actually one gal/hr seems low.  The specs for one of the 10kw Onan
> gensets that I have is 1.8 gal/hr so for a 8kw to use only one gal/hr
> I'm somewhat surprised.
>
> Everything I've heard says it takes pretty much the same energy to
> create a set kw no matter the size of engine.

That's generally true.  Larger stationary engines are often somewhat
more efficient than smaller portable ones.  Some of that is native to
larger engines being more efficient, but a lot of it is because all
engines have a power output where they're most efficient, and big
gensets can be made to run there most of the time.



-- 
David Scheidt
dmscheidt at gmail.com

From tr3driver at ca.rr.com  Sun Sep 30 21:46:32 2007
From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:46:32 -0700
Subject: [Shop-talk] Generator thread
In-Reply-To: <4700394C.2000505@141.com>
Message-ID: <20071001034632.XYNJ28177.mta11.adelphia.net@randall>

> Actually one gal/hr seems low.

Yeah, you're right.  Did something wrong when I calculated the first time.
Apologies.

> Everything I've heard says it takes pretty much the same 
> energy to create a set kw no matter the size of engine.  

Likely true for a diesel, but gasoline engines have pumping losses when
lightly loaded.  Otherwise a V8 would get the same gas mileage as a
4-cylinder at constant freeway speeds.

> Diesel uses less gal/hr than gas but gas uses less gal/hr 
> than propane or natural gas.  Natural gas is the least 
> efficient to use 

I think that's more a function of different amounts of energy per gallon.
Propane and natural gas engines are supposed to be more efficient, in terms
of Btu consumed vs hp-hour produced (all other things being equal); but they
have fewer Btu/gallon so burn more gallons.

Randall