From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net Sun Jul 1 04:03:58 2007 From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 06:03:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] abrasive blasting with a pressure washer References: <227216.42102.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001001c7bbc7$24906f80$94047247@fred8kwiskhcfu> Rich, I agree with Doug, very messy set-up, especially inside a building and on steps it will be going every place, never used this type with a pressure washer, but I would also "NEVER" use "SAND" no matter for what needed blasting, can be very harmful to your health, not a good product. "FT" From kvacek at ameritech.net Sun Jul 1 08:36:26 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 09:36:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Bulk] abrasive blasting with a pressure washer References: Message-ID: <001801c7bbed$35aef450$4101a8c0@KARL> BTDT long ago with a set-up completely designed for this particular application. As everyone else says, it's MESSY, but of course not as dusty as dry blasting. An alternative (my favorite for this application) is Rust-Oleum "Extend". It's a latex-type of phosphoric acid product that you just paint on and let dry. Knock off any loose rust first, but that's not a rigorous requirement at all - if it doesn't flake off too badly, it's fine. I've put it on very rusty iron pario furniture and then neglected it for a year or more of Chicago weather, and it's held up fine. Just paint right over it whenever you're ready. Or if you feel that you really have to clean the steel before painting, why not just use an abrasive flap wheel on a drill followed by phosphoric acid (metal prep) ? Karl > Has anyone used one of these or something like it? > > http://www.tiny.cc/LXS9z > We have metal steps at an apartment building that were replaced last fall, > too > late to paint. Now they need to be cleaned up and painted. Will this > clean > up the diamond plate and frame? While adding new tools is always good, is > there any place on a car restoration this could be used. > Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, > that > is my car! See it moves! From mark at nashvilletn.org Sun Jul 1 09:28:25 2007 From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 10:28:25 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Looking for SeaDoo Info. Message-ID: <00d301c7bbf4$7832fbd0$0600a8c0@Dell9200> I know there is a wealth of knowledge on this list and hopefully someone can give me some tips. My Daughter bought a 95 SeaDoo Jet Ski with a 580 Rotax engine. It runs but seems to run out of grunt and misses at high RPM under load. We have checked compression and it measures 150psi in both cylinders. We replaced plugs which were fouled with a new set of NGK's as specified. It starts and idles but will die unless you give it some gas. On the trailer, with the garden hose attached, it runs fine; it only has a problem under load in the water which makes it difficult to diagnose. It has fresh gas but I haven't found the fuel filter yet, maybe today. Any experts on the Rotax 2 stroke engine that can tell me what a logical approach is to finding the problem? Mark Nashville From stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Sun Jul 1 11:04:22 2007 From: stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com (Stevie G) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 12:04:22 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Looking for SeaDoo Info. In-Reply-To: <00d301c7bbf4$7832fbd0$0600a8c0@Dell9200> Message-ID: <000401c7bc01$e273fd70$0201a8c0@steve> I'd start by cleaning the carbs or injectors and looking for a vacuum leak on the intake. On a fuel injected engine, if you take away the MAP signal (Engine load basically) it will idle and run but have a high speed miss. On the trailer, are you running it up in RPM? Try putting a hair drier on the ignition module to see if it misses on the trailer. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 10:28 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Looking for SeaDoo Info. I know there is a wealth of knowledge on this list and hopefully someone can give me some tips. My Daughter bought a 95 SeaDoo Jet Ski with a 580 Rotax engine. It runs but seems to run out of grunt and misses at high RPM under load. We have checked compression and it measures 150psi in both cylinders. We replaced plugs which were fouled with a new set of NGK's as specified. It starts and idles but will die unless you give it some gas. On the trailer, with the garden hose attached, it runs fine; it only has a problem under load in the water which makes it difficult to diagnose. It has fresh gas but I haven't found the fuel filter yet, maybe today. Any experts on the Rotax 2 stroke engine that can tell me what a logical approach is to finding the problem? Mark Nashville _______________________________________________ stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From doug at dougbraun.com Sun Jul 1 13:17:28 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 12:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] abrasive blasting with a pressure washer In-Reply-To: <001001c7bbc7$24906f80$94047247@fred8kwiskhcfu> Message-ID: <857449.33624.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I believe that one advantage of the wet setup is that you can use regular sand, because it will not create dust (just mud). But even so, you would not want to let it all dry and then sweep it up. Doug --- FRED E THOMAS wrote: > Rich, I agree with Doug, very messy set-up, > especially inside a building and > on steps it will be going every place, never used > this type with a pressure > washer, but I would also "NEVER" use "SAND" no > matter for what needed > blasting, can be very harmful to your health, not a > good product. "FT" From cavanadd at verizon.net Sun Jul 1 13:37:58 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 12:37:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Shop teachers? In-Reply-To: <001001c7bbc7$24906f80$94047247@fred8kwiskhcfu> References: <227216.42102.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070701123703.026dacd8@incoming.verizon.net> Are there any high school shop teachers on the list? Does anyone know of any web resources for H.S. shop teachers? If so please contact me off list. After 25 years in management, I have accepted a position to teach Manufacturing Technology, which is the current name for Shop. I think it's going to be a lot of fun, but a lot of work, too. Thanks, Dave C From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sun Jul 1 16:06:30 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 18:06:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Looking for SeaDoo Info. In-Reply-To: <00d301c7bbf4$7832fbd0$0600a8c0@Dell9200> References: <00d301c7bbf4$7832fbd0$0600a8c0@Dell9200> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070701180525.01dd4008@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 11:28 AM 7/1/2007, Mark wrote: >My Daughter bought a 95 SeaDoo Jet Ski with a 580 Rotax engine. It >runs but seems to run out of grunt and misses at high RPM under >load. We have checked compression and it measures 150psi in both cylinders. Maybe the nos bottle is empty? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7591721914572490711 -Wayne From cornerexit at gmail.com Sun Jul 1 18:11:04 2007 From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 17:11:04 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> I recently purchased a craftsman starter tool kit for my 17 year old son's birthday. I explained to him how important having tools and the skill to use them are in his journey through life. His reply was, "but we have lots of tools here". "Here" meaning my tools in my shop. :-) I explained that he is less than a year away from being an adult, and when he moves out he will need his own tools. The tool kit he got has a good selection of socket sets, wrenches etc and had what I thought would be a nice fitted two drawer box that has a marked place for each socket. I figured this fitted tool box would go along way toward helping him keep the whole mess semi-organized. As it turns out, in practice, this fitted case is an unmitigated disaster. The drawers don't open far enough to access half the tools so you have to completely remove each drawer. The only way to remove the drawer is to yank it out of box and then all the tools go flying all over the floor. Anyway, I want to get him a "regular" type of toolbox but would still like to have some sort of socket organizer to keep things organized to some extent. These organizers would be used in a small portable type tool box, not a big stationary roll around type tool box. What do you use for socket holders/racks? Thanks Wayne From scott.hall at comcast.net Sun Jul 1 18:16:10 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 00:16:10 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <070220070016.6034.468843CA000A2CA800001792220073436404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> I've used both the magnetic rack you can carry around and the stand that sits in the tool box. you can see both styles on the griots garage web site, or at sears. the only complaint I have with either of these is that you can't buy them to hold all socket sizes (they usually go from 1/4" to 7/8" for example. this frustrates the ocd-cretin in me. otherwise, I like the stand model for the toolbox int he garage, and the magnetic rack for trips out. the stand model needs a fairly tall drawer to live in. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "cornerexit" > What do you use for socket holders/racks? From mark at noakes.com Sun Jul 1 18:17:51 2007 From: mark at noakes.com (mark at noakes.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 00:17:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <31047021.1183335471189.JavaMail.?@fh1040.dia.cp.net> My dad bought me a S-K socket set plus a few other tools when I headed off for college at 17 in 1974. I still have most of that set though I mostly use Craftsman now. They are treasures. Mark Noakes ----Original Message---- From: cornerexit at gmail.com Date: Jul 1, 2007 17:11 To: Subj: [Shop-talk] Socket holders I recently purchased a craftsman starter tool kit for my 17 year old son's birthday. I explained to him how important having tools and the skill to use them are in his journey through life. His reply was, "but we have lots of tools here". "Here" meaning my tools in my shop. :-) I explained that he is less than a year away from being an adult, and when he moves out he will need his own tools. The tool kit he got has a good selection of socket sets, wrenches etc and had what I thought would be a nice fitted two drawer box that has a marked place for each socket. I figured this fitted tool box would go along way toward helping him keep the whole mess semi-organized. As it turns out, in practice, this fitted case is an unmitigated disaster. The drawers don't open far enough to access half the tools so you have to completely remove each drawer. The only way to remove the drawer is to yank it out of box and then all the tools go flying all over the floor. Anyway, I want to get him a "regular" type of toolbox but would still like to have some sort of socket organizer to keep things organized to some extent. These organizers would be used in a small portable type tool box, not a big stationary roll around type tool box. What do you use for socket holders/racks? Thanks Wayne _______________________________________________ mark at noakes.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Sun Jul 1 18:19:03 2007 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 20:19:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <000c01c7bc3e$9badee90$6400a8c0@DADSTOY> For carrying in my tool box my favorite organizer is a plastic holder with a handle on one end. It is magnetized and holds the sockets in it when you carry it around. (they will pop loose if you drop it) It had standard sockets on one side and deep well on the other. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of cornerexit Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 8:11 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders I recently purchased a craftsman starter tool kit for my 17 year old son's birthday. I explained to him how important having tools and the skill to use them are in his journey through life. His reply was, "but we have lots of tools here". "Here" meaning my tools in my shop. :-) I explained that he is less than a year away from being an adult, and when he moves out he will need his own tools. The tool kit he got has a good selection of socket sets, wrenches etc and had what I thought would be a nice fitted two drawer box that has a marked place for each socket. I figured this fitted tool box would go along way toward helping him keep the whole mess semi-organized. As it turns out, in practice, this fitted case is an unmitigated disaster. The drawers don't open far enough to access half the tools so you have to completely remove each drawer. The only way to remove the drawer is to yank it out of box and then all the tools go flying all over the floor. Anyway, I want to get him a "regular" type of toolbox but would still like to have some sort of socket organizer to keep things organized to some extent. These organizers would be used in a small portable type tool box, not a big stationary roll around type tool box. What do you use for socket holders/racks? Thanks Wayne _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jul 1 18:44:23 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 20:44:23 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707011744u2e42e09fyfed4a87d2b384aa4@mail.gmail.com> On 7/1/07, cornerexit wrote: > Anyway, I want to get him a "regular" type of toolbox but would still like > to have some sort of socket organizer to keep things organized to some > extent. These organizers would be used in a small portable type tool box, > not a big stationary roll around type tool box. > > > > What do you use for socket holders/racks? I very much prefer socket rails, with springy clip things, for sockets that I carry around. It makes it very easy to grab the 3/8" drive standard set, and know I've got a complete set. It's also easy to make sure that you've got the whole set when you're done. I've also got the magnetic things. They stay in the tool box, I dont' think they hold sockets well enough. I've also got a peg thing in one the socket drawers, which works okay for stuff that stays in the drawer, but they're very space inefficient. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From scott.hall at comcast.net Sun Jul 1 19:17:11 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 01:17:11 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <070220070117.10808.468852170004F4CE00002A38220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> oh man. I hate socket rails with a passion. when I was stocking up on tools, the first thing I did was toss the rail and get a 'real' holder. I hate having to wrestle the socket off the rail, especially when my hands are oily. though I will concede the rails are the most compact thing going. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "David Scheidt" > I very much prefer socket rails, with springy clip things, for sockets > that I carry around. It makes it very easy to grab the 3/8" drive > standard set, and know I've got a complete set. It's also easy to > make sure that you've got the whole set when you're done. I've also > got the magnetic things. They stay in the tool box, I dont' think > they hold sockets well enough. I've also got a peg thing in one the > socket drawers, which works okay for stuff that stays in the drawer, > but they're very space inefficient. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jul 1 19:32:12 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 21:32:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <070220070117.10808.468852170004F4CE00002A38220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> References: <070220070117.10808.468852170004F4CE00002A38220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707011832p72a780daq9e0b526c1c68a642@mail.gmail.com> On 7/1/07, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > oh man. I hate socket rails with a passion. when I was stocking up on tools, the first thing I did was toss the rail and get a 'real' holder. I hate having to wrestle the socket off the rail, especially when my hands are oily. though I will concede the rails are the most compact thing going. > there's a substantial difference in the quality of the clips, I find. Most of my rails are Snap-On, as they're what the sockets come on. These work much better than the crappy ones I got from horrible fright or the like. Grab the rail in one hand, the socket with three fingers on the other, twist in opposite directions, and the socket pops right off. The cheap ones tend to be too tight or too loose. They do require two hands, but I don't find that to be a problem. The time I save not having to chase down loose sockets the first time I drop the carrier makes up for it. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From scott.hall at comcast.net Sun Jul 1 19:37:06 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 01:37:06 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <070220070137.672.468856C2000238E3000002A0220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> yeah, mine are all snap-on rails (or at least snap-on sockets were that they were holding). I think the problem we have here is the rust as much as anything. it's so humid here the clips rust, and then you're hosed. have you ever tried the plastic 'clips' with the detent ball? I wonder if they're any better. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "David Scheidt" > there's a substantial difference in the quality of the clips, I find. > Most of my rails are Snap-On, as they're what the sockets come on. > These work much better than the crappy ones I got from horrible fright > or the like. Grab the rail in one hand, the socket with three > fingers on the other, twist in opposite directions, and the socket > pops right off. The cheap ones tend to be too tight or too loose. > They do require two hands, but I don't find that to be a problem. The > time I save not having to chase down loose sockets the first time I > drop the carrier makes up for it. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sun Jul 1 20:20:42 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 22:20:42 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070701221027.01dd6988@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 08:11 PM 7/1/2007, cornerexit wrote: >What do you use for socket holders/racks? After years of those stamped metal things that the sockets "stick" on, I found one at Sears I really like (Lowes has them too) -- it's a plastic tray with a post sticking up for each size socket. The top of each post is labeled with the size. There are two rows of posts for regular and deep-well sockets. I really like it, but if you're the type that wants to take the whole collection of sockets to the work site, it's not ideal. Also saw Home Depot selling a small tool box for only $20 like the one I bought 20 years ago as a youngin'. Its a small lugable box, with 3 drawers and a flip top. Sort of a portable version of a regular "top chest". Still have mine collecting dust actually, need to find a good home to give it to. (the other) Wayne From eltonclark at gmail.com Sun Jul 1 21:49:37 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:49:37 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: *My idea won't help your son's toolbox but might appeal to someone else: After trying every thing in the way of sticks, boards and racks for sockets, I've hit on this: I bought enough huge muffin tins to fill a 30" x 30" drawer in my tool cabinet and my 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 drive sockets all share a labeled cup according to the BOLT size: example: all 7/16 sockets go in one cup: 1/4, 3/8 & 1/2 drives. When I go for a socket, I have options for the size I want. Only the mid sizes have to share all three drive type; the little 1/4s and the big 1/2s get a cup to themselves. I also paint the tins white and have stick-on labels on most of my sockets to help with visability. O' course I still have to cope with my metrics, Whitworths, tall sockets, impact sockets, 3/4 drive etc, but they live in other drawers. * On 7/1/07, cornerexit wrote: > > I recently purchased a craftsman starter tool kit for my 17 year old son's > birthday. I explained to him how important having tools and the skill to > use > them are in his journey through life. His reply was, "but we have lots of > tools here". "Here" meaning my tools in my shop. :-) I explained that he > is > less than a year away from being an adult, and when he moves out he will > need his own tools. > > > > The tool kit he got has a good selection of socket sets, wrenches etc and > had what I thought would be a nice fitted two drawer box that has a marked > place for each socket. I figured this fitted tool box would go along way > toward helping him keep the whole mess semi-organized. > > > > As it turns out, in practice, this fitted case is an unmitigated disaster. > The drawers don't open far enough to access half the tools so you have to > completely remove each drawer. The only way to remove the drawer is to > yank > it out of box and then all the tools go flying all over the floor. > > > > Anyway, I want to get him a "regular" type of toolbox but would still like > to have some sort of socket organizer to keep things organized to some > extent. These organizers would be used in a small portable type tool box, > not a big stationary roll around type tool box. > > > > What do you use for socket holders/racks? > > > > Thanks > > Wayne > _______________________________________________ > eltonclark at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From jem at milleredp.com Sun Jul 1 22:05:20 2007 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 21:05:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <46887980.9080007@milleredp.com> > a labeled cup according to the BOLT size: example: all 7/16 sockets go in > one cup: 1/4, 3/8 & 1/2 drives. When I go for a socket, I have options > for the size I want. Only the mid sizes have to share all three drive type; > the little 1/4s and the big 1/2s get a cup to themselves. You posted this here before, and I then went out and partitioned a couple drawers in one of my Vidmar tool cabinets like that (except that I do separate them by drive size) and it's worked out far better than anything I'd tried before, so I just wanted to thank you for the tip and that it certainly works for me. I've got one drawer for handles, extensions, spark-plug sockets, adapters, and other 'universal' stuff, then one for metric sockets and etc, and one for inch sockets and etc. Now I just need to get my screwdrivers and pliers and etc. organized as well. Any tool-organization strategy is a compromise between (a) perfect accessibility when you need it (b) cleanup-and-put-away time afterward and (c) physical space (and memory-space to easily remember where you put things.) I hate (b) so much that I'm willing to compromise (a) a little bit to reduce it. John. From arvidj at visi.com Mon Jul 2 09:14:00 2007 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:14:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> Had the metal sticks for many years and finally threw them away due to rust, hard to add and remove sockets, cut fingers, etc. Then switched to these ... http://www.lislecorp.com/tool_detail.cfm?detail=639 I liked them but they do seem to take up a lot of space in the drawer. There is some space between each of the sockets and it does not lend itself will to putting several sockets of the same size right next to one another. Then found these ... http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?pid=00941829000&vertical=Sears&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes which are the plastic version of the metal stick. I am assuming they will not rust, seem to be the most efficient in use of space, sockets are easy to put on and take off but appear strong enough to not fall off, seem to be sturdy enough, you can get extra posts, etc. Not normally a big Craftsman fan, but these seem to do the job quite well. Arvid From eltonclark at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 10:43:26 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:43:26 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> Message-ID: *If we've got the socket holders all sorted out, I'd like to see if anyone has the screwdriver thing solved . . . For efficiency, I like my drivers in cans with the tips up and separate cans sorted by big & little flat, big and little Phillips, torque, nut-driver, etc. . . .There's gotta be something a little more elegant!* From mark at sccaprepared.com Mon Jul 2 11:33:22 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <070220070137.672.468856C2000238E3000002A0220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> References: <070220070137.672.468856C2000238E3000002A0220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: Howdy, On Mon, 2 Jul 2007, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > have you ever tried the plastic 'clips' with the detent ball? I wonder > if they're any better. I've got those in my portable toolbox. They're quite a lot better than the old style springy metal clips. In the shop/trailer toolbox I use the magnetic holders (with the handles cut off). I wouldn't use the magnetic holders as a walk around choice though. When I get a new toolbox, I'm going to ensure its deep enough that I can use the peg style holders. Mark From pethier at comcast.net Mon Jul 2 12:17:15 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:17:15 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Texas flood. Message-ID: <070220071817.10829.4689412B0004CA2D00002A4D22058844849D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> Tony, are you staying dry down there? I've been hearing reports that there have been floods in your part of Texas. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, 1994 Miata C package pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Mon Jul 2 12:21:36 2007 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:21:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: References: <070220070137.672.468856C2000238E3000002A0220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971EC498@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> This is kind of old fashioned, but I've found (at least for me) that the best socket holders are the metal trays that sockets sets used to come in. My old Craftsman sockets are in such trays, but they only place I've seen them lately is Snap-On. Here's an example: http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=645&group_ ID=3222&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog Tim Mullen From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Mon Jul 2 12:33:07 2007 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <120823.14453.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Tony, I use the wire loop bracket peg board hangers. It is a great way to see what you have from across the room, but it doesn't help you take several over to the work area. I find myself walking back and forth to the peg board wall numerous times, and then end up with screwdrivers all over the floor and the end of the job -- must be something better... best, doug "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" wrote: *If we've got the socket holders all sorted out, I'd like to see if anyone has the screwdriver thing solved . . . For efficiency, I like my drivers in cans with the tips up and separate cans sorted by big & little flat, big and little Phillips, torque, nut-driver, etc. . . .There's gotta be something a little more elegant!* _______________________________________________ From jblair1948 at cox.net Mon Jul 2 16:12:39 2007 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:12:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Screwdrivers In-Reply-To: References: <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070702181239.00aa6bd0@pop.east.cox.net> At 11:43 AM 7/2/2007 -0500, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: >*If we've got the socket holders all sorted out, I'd like to see if anyone >has the screwdriver thing solved . . . For efficiency, I like my drivers >in cans with the tips up and separate cans sorted by big & little flat, big >and little Phillips, torque, nut-driver, etc. . . .There's gotta be >something a little more elegant!* I keep my screwdrivers in one of the drawers of my main tool box. My streight blades are on the left side of the drawer with the handles to the left, and the phillips are on the right side with their handles to the right. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From jblair1948 at cox.net Mon Jul 2 16:15:13 2007 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:15:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40707011744u2e42e09fyfed4a87d2b384aa4@mail.gmail.co m> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> At 08:44 PM 7/1/2007 -0400, David Scheidt wrote: >> >> What do you use for socket holders/racks? > >I very much prefer socket rails, with springy clip things, for sockets >that I carry around. It makes it very easy to grab the 3/8" drive >standard set, and know I've got a complete set. It's also easy to >make sure that you've got the whole set when you're done. I've also >got the magnetic things. They stay in the tool box, I dont' think >they hold sockets well enough. I've also got a peg thing in one the >socket drawers, which works okay for stuff that stays in the drawer, >but they're very space inefficient. I have to agree with David. I have the metal rails with the little metal clips. Yes they rust, and yes getting sockets off/on and seeing what size they are can be a pain. But that can be fixed with the aid of the flat blade screwdriver you have laying around. But I hate walking back to my tool box everytime I need a socket. They are cheap enough that if they do really rust, they can be replaced. I've had mine for over 10 yrs. So they don't owe me anything. I'm restoring 1 car in my garage so the garage is full. If I'm working on one of the daily drivers, I have to work in the drive way. So when I know I need a 3/8" or 1/2" set, I walk to the shop, grab which ever size and type (metric, SAE, shallow or deep dish) and carry them back to the work area. Now I've got all of what I may need right there where I'm working! My 1/2" impact sockets came from HF. I have 4 sets of these, 1 SAE and 1 Metric, of both shallow and deep dish. These are in metal cases. Currently they sit on the side of the tool box, as there isn't enough room in the box. I've got a set of SAE and metric 3/8" drive that came in the old metal trays with the swing up rail. That's not too bad, as I can grab the tray and carry it out to the driveway. What I hate about them, is I'm for ever knocking them over and having all the sockets roll all over the place. I've got 2 1/4" socket sets, one Craftsman the other a no name, both came in plastic cases. I really like these as the have the sizes imbossed in the plastic. The problem with them is the hinges are just thin plastic strips as is the clasps. Over the years the hinges have broken as so has the clasps. I really wish Sears would make replacement cases for these but they don't. I keep the sockets in the top of my tool box. All the ratchets, breaker bars, extensions and universals are in 1 drawer. The nice part about having the sticks or any device similar is that you can tell if you've left a socket someplace! Now all this talk about socket sets, I guess the next question is how many socket sets does every one have? John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Jul 2 16:16:57 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:16:57 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <070220072216.11835.46897959000BA45800002E3B221348437304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> the best thing I ever found was the metal pegboard. still think about making a holder for the box, but never get the 'round 'tuits. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" > *If we've got the socket holders all sorted out, I'd like to see if anyone > has the screwdriver thing solved . . . For efficiency, I like my drivers > in cans with the tips up and separate cans sorted by big & little flat, big > and little Phillips, torque, nut-driver, etc. . . .There's gotta be > something a little more elegant!* From stuart.a.galt at boeing.com Mon Jul 2 16:24:53 2007 From: stuart.a.galt at boeing.com (Galt, Stuart A) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 15:24:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Screwdrivers In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070702181239.00aa6bd0@pop.east.cox.net> References: <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com><023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> <3.0.5.32.20070702181239.00aa6bd0@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: John T. Blair [mailto:jblair1948 at cox.net] > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:13 PM > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Screwdrivers > > At 11:43 AM 7/2/2007 -0500, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > > >*If we've got the socket holders all sorted out, I'd like to see if > >anyone has the screwdriver thing solved . . . For > efficiency, I like my > >drivers in cans with the tips up and separate cans sorted by big & > >little flat, big and little Phillips, torque, nut-driver, etc. . . > >.There's gotta be something a little more elegant!* > > I keep my screwdrivers in one of the drawers of my main tool box. > My streight blades are on the left side of the drawer with > the handles to the left, and the phillips are on the right > side with their handles to the right. I bought the other brand... My phillips handles are on the left and the blade handles are on the right :) Stuart (yea I am left handed) From eltonclark at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 17:59:02 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 18:59:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: > *John wrote: > Now all this talk about socket sets, I guess the next question is how many > socket sets does every one have? > > Oh Gawd!* ** *1/4 6 point (2)* *1/4 12 point (2)* *1/4 Metric* *3/8 6 point (3)* *3/8 12 point (2)* *3/8 8 point* *3/8 metric (2)* *3/8 Whitworth* *1/2 6 point (2)* *1/2 12 point (2)* *1/2 8 point* *1/2 Metric (2)* *3/4 12 point* *Twenty three socket sets???? Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!* From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Jul 2 18:40:14 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 17:40:14 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <20070703004013.PUIH26470.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> > Now all this talk about socket sets, I guess the next > question is how many socket sets does every one have? I'm not even sure how to count "sets" any more. Does one of those combination things with some metric and some SAE, some deep and some shallow, some 1/4, some 3/8, some 1/2 count as only one set, or 2x2x3 = 12 sets ? Think I've got 4 or 5 of those, bought for various reasons. Then the rollaway has a collection in each of those; plus 4 impact sets (deep/shallow times SAE/metric); plus a Whitworth set with some 1/4" and some 3/8". The travelling tool box has a set of 3/8" SAE plus 3/8" Whitworth; and there are two more Whitworth sets on the shelf that I bought when I thought the travelling box had been stolen. (Turned out I'd hidden it then forgotten where I hid it ) Then there are the various individual sockets, like wobble sockets and 8-point sockets; most recent aquisition was a 3/8" drive, 5/16" 8-point for those pesky taper pins in Triumph shift forks. Not to mention sockets I've customized, like the pin-drive for the nut inside a Stag OD shift knob, or TR3 switch escutcheons. FWIW, I don't bother with holders unless the sockets happen to come in a case I like. The rollaway has a separate drawer for each drive & standard; and I just line the sockets up by type and size within each drawer. Someday, if I'm really, really bored, I might add partitions to hold them ... Randall From cornerexit at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 20:16:51 2007 From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 19:16:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping Message-ID: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> My treadmill is tripping the GFCI for some reason lately. 20amp breaker, 12ga wire, 20amp gfci duplex outlet. Cleaned the treadmill motor, rollers etc. The treadmill works fine with my lightweight 17 year old son on it, but with my heavy butt it trips a minute or two into the routine. I assume these gfci outlets wear out over time? Is there a way to test the receptacle itself? Not test the circuit necessarily but just the outlet itself? When I plug in one of those circuit tester thingies it indicates the circuit is wired correctly and will trip the gfci when I push the test button, so I guess the only other thing is to replace the receptacle? I don't have another nearby outlet/circuit to test the treadmill on, at least without using a bunch of extension cords. Are these gfci receptacles a bit fragile? It sure seems they don't last very long, at least for me anyways. Wayne From jblair1948 at cox.net Mon Jul 2 20:23:54 2007 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:23:54 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Sockets In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070702222354.00dd3e40@pop.east.cox.net> At 06:59 PM 7/2/2007 -0500, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > John wrote: >Now all this talk about socket sets, I guess the next question is how many >socket sets does every one have? > Oh Gawd! 1/4 6 point (2) 1/4 12 point (2) 1/4 Metric 3/8 6 point (3) 3/8 12 point (2) 3/8 8 point 3/8 metric (2) 3/8 Whitworth 1/2 6 point (2) 1/2 12 point (2) 1/2 8 point 1/2 Metric (2) 3/4 12 point Twenty three socket sets???? Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! Wow!!! Most of my friends (and family) think I'm nuts with about 12. :) Glad to see I'm not crazy. 1/4 SAE 1/4 SAE & metric 3/8 SAE (2) 3/8 metric 1/2 SAE 1/2 metric 1/2 Whitworth 1/2 SAE impact shallow 1/2 SAE impact deep 1/2 metric impact shallow 1/2 metric impact deep John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From eltonclark at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 20:32:30 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 21:32:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Sockets In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070702222354.00dd3e40@pop.east.cox.net> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> <3.0.5.32.20070702222354.00dd3e40@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: *Twenty three socket sets???? Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!* John wrote: >>>Wow!!! Most of my friends (and family) think I'm nuts with about 12. > :) Glad to see I'm not crazy.<<< *I'm not sure we established sanity for either one of us and it gets even worse . . I forgot my impact socket sets and my 1/2 inch drive Whitworths . . make that 27!!!!!!! I AM nuts!* ** *Tony Clark* *Lotus S1 Elan, Lotus 51 formula Ford, Lotus 23 sports racer, Hodaka Ace 100, 1927 Caterpillar 15 and miscellaneous road cars.* From mark at nashvilletn.org Mon Jul 2 20:36:35 2007 From: mark at nashvilletn.org (Mark) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 21:36:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] NO LBC...Looking for SeaDoo Info. FIXED! References: <00c201c7bbe8$887e16c0$0600a8c0@Dell9200> <007201c7bcfb$145ab2d0$6401a8c0@housexemkv1xcx> Message-ID: <013b01c7bd1a$fa8889c0$0600a8c0@Dell9200> Thanks for all of the Sea-Doo tips and tricks. As you may recall it ran fine on the trailer but not in the water. We found that it had a cracked rubber exhaust pipe hose. Apparently when the seat was installed there was enough exhaust gas filling the engine compartment that it displaced the O2 and just didn't have enough air to breathe. We found a smudge on the side of the boat where the exhaust and water was leaking. The air intake for the carb is on the under side of the air box and was just sucking in exhaust gasses. $6 worth of hose and all is well, we now know that all of the other stuff is ok too. Thanks for the help, my Daughter thinks that Dad can fix anything, she doesn't know about you guys! Mark Nashville From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 21:39:20 2007 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 22:39:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping Message-ID: I'm sure the EE that are on the list will correct me if I do not have this totally correct... As I remember the GFCI compares the current going into the device with the current coming back. If the difference is too great, it turns off the power. I think the greater the difference the quicker the shutdown occurs. We did not put them on circuits that had motors or refrigerators on them because of the phase angle. Having the peak current and peak voltage out of phase would fool the GFCI into thinking there was a problem. The harder the motor has to work the greater the phase angle. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! From mark at sccaprepared.com Mon Jul 2 22:25:58 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: Howdy, On Mon, 2 Jul 2007, John T. Blair wrote: > Now all this talk about socket sets, I guess the next question is how > many socket sets does every one have? If you know the answer to that... ...probably not enough. :-) Mark From kturk at ala.net Tue Jul 3 03:10:53 2007 From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 04:10:53 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders/roll away's? References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <01d401c7bd52$0f1f35a0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p> Yeah... I love that answer... hell I have no idea how many I have... thou I should have answered the original question... Those damn racks that are trays with sticks that have the socket size on top is what I have the most of... Red for SAE and Gray for Metric. Now the real question... how many roll aways do you have? I can't seem to have enough.. currently there are 7 in my shop... 3 main box sets... Left is specialty... center is the main box and the right box is metric... then you have the two welder boxes... ( cheapy Craftsman bottoms with cages on top and welders set up on top of them. ) My first roll away that I made out of Pecan because I couldn't afford a steel one .... and my race box. http://hotrod.com/projectbuild/113_0501_bonn/ Several nice pic's of my junk and a fairly nice article... Keith.. From rkg at teleport.com Tue Jul 3 06:47:24 2007 From: rkg at teleport.com (Richard George) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:47:24 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders/roll away's? References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> <01d401c7bd52$0f1f35a0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p> Message-ID: <468A455C.2010703@teleport.com> Keith, I've got 4 rollarounds (if you don't include the main workbench that's on casters as well) - one triple high, one just plain big double high, one for the plasma cutter and one for welding stuff that I actually modified the top so I could do light welding on. The tig welder/bottle is on wheels too... the scary part is that I actually seem to use most of the stuff in 'em periodically... As a show of support for the wife's attempt to dejunk her life I dug for a loong time and finally could only really find one thing (in the garage) to contribute to a yard sale - a minty Chinese 3/4" impact wrench, which I only used a couple of times before I got Darth (an IR2131). - put it out at a crazy low price w/ a new Craftsman case (like $10 over what the case cost me, and even then nobody else wanted it either (and it was a well advertised neighborhood wide sale :-/) rkg (Richard George) >Yeah... I love that answer... hell I have no idea how many I have... thou I >should have answered the original question... Those damn racks that are >trays with sticks that have the socket size on top is what I have the most >of... Red for SAE and Gray for Metric. > >Now the real question... how many roll aways do you have? I can't seem to >have enough.. currently there are 7 in my shop... 3 main box sets... Left >is specialty... center is the main box and the right box is metric... then >you have the two welder boxes... ( cheapy Craftsman bottoms with cages on >top and welders set up on top of them. ) My first roll away that I made out >of Pecan because I couldn't afford a steel one .... and my race box. >http://hotrod.com/projectbuild/113_0501_bonn/ Several nice pic's of my junk >and a fairly nice article... > >Keith.. >_______________________________________________ >rkg at teleport.com From stuart.a.galt at boeing.com Tue Jul 3 08:39:34 2007 From: stuart.a.galt at boeing.com (Galt, Stuart A) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:39:34 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Andy [mailto:mark at sccaprepared.com] > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:26 PM > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Socket holders > > Howdy, > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2007, John T. Blair wrote: > > Now all this talk about socket sets, I guess the next > question is how > > many socket sets does every one have? > > If you know the answer to that... > > ...probably not enough. :-) I am not sure how to count them either... I the top drawer of a Snapon KRL1022 mostly full of sockets/extensions and a small army or ratchet handles. For some reason I still find myself needed to buy a socket here and there. The large "hub" sockets live in a different drawer. Stuart (I am not a tool addict - I can stop anytime I want) From kentsu at corvairkid.com Tue Jul 3 09:45:31 2007 From: kentsu at corvairkid.com (Kent Sullivan) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 08:45:31 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice> One thing to consider when doing auto work is how many sockets do you really need for a given car? Most American cars use very few sizes. Has anyone tried organizing their sockets in groups based on what is needed for a given project? I know I have a lot of socket sizes I have never used, and probably never will... --Kent -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of John T. Blair Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:15 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Socket holders At 08:44 PM 7/1/2007 -0400, David Scheidt wrote: >> >> What do you use for socket holders/racks? > >I very much prefer socket rails, with springy clip things, for sockets >that I carry around. It makes it very easy to grab the 3/8" drive >standard set, and know I've got a complete set. It's also easy to make >sure that you've got the whole set when you're done. I've also got the >magnetic things. They stay in the tool box, I dont' think they hold >sockets well enough. I've also got a peg thing in one the socket >drawers, which works okay for stuff that stays in the drawer, but >they're very space inefficient. I have to agree with David. I have the metal rails with the little metal clips. Yes they rust, and yes getting sockets off/on and seeing what size they are can be a pain. But that can be fixed with the aid of the flat blade screwdriver you have laying around. But I hate walking back to my tool box everytime I need a socket. They are cheap enough that if they do really rust, they can be replaced. I've had mine for over 10 yrs. So they don't owe me anything. I'm restoring 1 car in my garage so the garage is full. If I'm working on one of the daily drivers, I have to work in the drive way. So when I know I need a 3/8" or 1/2" set, I walk to the shop, grab which ever size and type (metric, SAE, shallow or deep dish) and carry them back to the work area. Now I've got all of what I may need right there where I'm working! My 1/2" impact sockets came from HF. I have 4 sets of these, 1 SAE and 1 Metric, of both shallow and deep dish. These are in metal cases. Currently they sit on the side of the tool box, as there isn't enough room in the box. I've got a set of SAE and metric 3/8" drive that came in the old metal trays with the swing up rail. That's not too bad, as I can grab the tray and carry it out to the driveway. What I hate about them, is I'm for ever knocking them over and having all the sockets roll all over the place. I've got 2 1/4" socket sets, one Craftsman the other a no name, both came in plastic cases. I really like these as the have the sizes imbossed in the plastic. The problem with them is the hinges are just thin plastic strips as is the clasps. Over the years the hinges have broken as so has the clasps. I really wish Sears would make replacement cases for these but they don't. I keep the sockets in the top of my tool box. All the ratchets, breaker bars, extensions and universals are in 1 drawer. The nice part about having the sticks or any device similar is that you can tell if you've left a socket someplace! Now all this talk about socket sets, I guess the next question is how many socket sets does every one have? John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! _______________________________________________ kentsu at corvairkid.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From jem at milleredp.com Tue Jul 3 10:26:08 2007 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:26:08 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> <0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice> Message-ID: <468A78A0.7060100@milleredp.com> Kent Sullivan wrote: > One thing to consider when doing auto work is how many sockets do you really > need for a given car? Most American cars use very few sizes. Has anyone > tried organizing their sockets in groups based on what is needed for a given > project? I know I have a lot of socket sizes I have never used, and probably > never will... Different manufacturers seem to have different 'favorite' sizes, it's rare to find a nut that needs an 11mm socket but my Taurus SHO is lousy with the things. The Japanese stuff I've run into seems to have a lot of 12mm heads on M8 bolts. I'm finally working on putting together a 'dedicated' junkyard set - sockets, wrenches, etc - I figure I need both metric and inch for the 'middle' stuff - basically 3/8-10mm up through 18mm (can usually interchange 13mm and 1/2, of course...) but from 11/32 down you can pretty much always find something inch that'll fit any metric hex, and from 19mm up there's a lot of 'close enough' crossover. Minimizing the number of little things to lose and big things to carry matters in this application. John. From foxtrapper at ispwest.com Tue Jul 3 10:42:33 2007 From: foxtrapper at ispwest.com (Nolan) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:42:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> <0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice> Message-ID: <001001c7bd91$32058a80$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us> How you organize your sockets and other tools is personal preference. I just separate mine by type and drive (metric, deep, 1/4" drive for example) I do have my 8 point sockets separated, as well those weird sizes. I've yet to use the 6.3mm socket for example. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Sullivan" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Socket holders > One thing to consider when doing auto work is how many sockets do you > really > need for a given car? Most American cars use very few sizes. Has anyone > tried organizing their sockets in groups based on what is needed for a > given > project? I know I have a lot of socket sizes I have never used, and > probably > never will... From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 11:58:41 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:58:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <001001c7bd91$32058a80$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> <0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice> <001001c7bd91$32058a80$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707031058v3d7f0ae9o14260d59041ba3cf@mail.gmail.com> On 7/3/07, Nolan wrote: > How you organize your sockets and other tools is personal preference. > I just separate mine by type and drive (metric, deep, 1/4" drive for > example) > I do have my 8 point sockets separated, as well those weird sizes. I've yet > to use the 6.3mm socket for example. > I bet you've used the 6.3mm socket a hundred times or more. You just use the one that's labeled 1/4 inch. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 12:03:30 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:03:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> <0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707031103l5dfe75cbv93632c9706b78990@mail.gmail.com> On 7/3/07, Kent Sullivan wrote: > One thing to consider when doing auto work is how many sockets do you really > need for a given car? Most American cars use very few sizes. Has anyone > tried organizing their sockets in groups based on what is needed for a given > project? I know I have a lot of socket sizes I have never used, and probably > never will... > The smallish toolkit that lives in my Land-Rover is set up like this. It's got a set of combination wrenches, a 3/8 ratchet, an extension, a universal, and a socket rail. I took a couple of the sockets that I'll never use off the rail, and replaced them with a spark plug socket, and a 3/8 BS socket (fits the hub bolts, which need tightening from time to time.) -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From nick at landform.co.uk Tue Jul 3 12:27:42 2007 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:27:42 +0100 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <468A78A0.7060100@milleredp.com> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net> <0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice> <468A78A0.7060100@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <20070703182902.C21911FBC0C@relay.vnet.co.uk> At 17:26 03/07/2007, John Miller wrote: >I'm finally working on putting together a 'dedicated' junkyard set - >sockets, wrenches, etc - I figure I need both metric and inch for the >'middle' stuff - basically 3/8-10mm up through 18mm (can usually >interchange 13mm and 1/2, of course...) but from 11/32 down you can >pretty much always find something inch that'll fit any metric hex, and >from 19mm up there's a lot of 'close enough' crossover. > >Minimizing the number of little things to lose and big things to carry >matters in this application. I've had good results over the years with this set: http://tinyurl.com/ytwq3f Add a ratchet and a t-bar and you can tackle most things up to heavy plant. This one's UK sourced but I'm sure there's a Murrican one, at half the price... Nick Brearley From cornerexit at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 13:05:31 2007 From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:05:31 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <054a01c7bda5$213651d0$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Thanks for the replies everyone. I had not seen these plastic stick versions before. They look like they would work well, although by my calculations I would need to 7 sets (one set = one 1/4, one 3/8, one 1/2) of these things at $10 each in order to accommodate this tool kit. I pulled out the inventory list for this tool kit I got him and it has 14 sets of sockets in it, 1/4drive, 3/8drive, 1/2drive, metric, std, 12pt, 6pt, deep, std etc. To complicate matters even more, each of these socket sets have differing quantities of sockets in them. For example one set may have 8 sockets and another set will have 12 sockets. It looks to me like those plastic sticks are only long enough to accommodate X number of sockets each. This of course means that we will end up with a couple of "stray" sockets from the set. I suppose this would be a problem with any socket storage rack/method. Hmm, not sure what to do now. Two of the 14 sets are 12pt. I suppose I could prune those out as they have 6pt duplicates except the 12pt go two sizes larger (could put those with the 6pt set I guess). Of course there is no guarantee my son will even put the sockets back on the racks anyway I suppose (I was not real organized when I was 18). Arghh, this is exactly the kind of aggravation I hopped to avoid by buying this tool set with the "fitted" tool case. Wayne -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Arvid Jedlicka Then found these ... http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?pid=00941829000&vertical=Sears&BV_ UseBVCookie=Yes which are the plastic version of the metal stick. I am assuming they will not rust, seem to be the most efficient in use of space, sockets are easy to put on and take off but appear strong enough to not fall off, seem to be sturdy enough, you can get extra posts, etc. Not normally a big Craftsman fan, but these seem to do the job quite well. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 13:08:41 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:08:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Screwdrivers In-Reply-To: References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <005701c7bcbb$9ea4b890$31631aac@behavioral.com> <3.0.5.32.20070702181239.00aa6bd0@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707031208o210ff918l4054fec5ace54f8e@mail.gmail.com> On 7/2/07, Galt, Stuart A wrote: > > I bought the other brand... My phillips handles are on the > left and the blade handles are on the right :) Lately, I've been avoiding the screwdriver finding problem by using a ratcheting interchangeable bit driver. The half dozen bits that fit in the bottom serve for about 75% of my needs; a fairly small box of bits solves 90% of the rest. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From eric at megageek.com Tue Jul 3 13:30:12 2007 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:30:12 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <468A78A0.7060100@milleredp.com> Message-ID: John talks about a "junkyard set" of tools. John, and others, I found that the best set of tools for that is the metwrench stuff. It was a TV infomercial a bunch of years back, now they can be found all over the web. I was very impressed with the quality and function. each wrench and socket is a metric and standard size. So half the tools to carry! Moose "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." Tori Amos From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Tue Jul 3 16:43:37 2007 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:43:37 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net><0b9401c7bd89$2ffb0e20$0300a8c0@IBMOffice><001001c7bd91$32058a80$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us> <2400a5d40707031058v3d7f0ae9o14260d59041ba3cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001c01c7bdc3$9957a9c0$38357d80@XLH883> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Scheidt" To: "Nolan" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Socket holders > On 7/3/07, Nolan wrote: >> How you organize your sockets and other tools is personal preference. >> I just separate mine by type and drive (metric, deep, 1/4" drive for >> example) >> I do have my 8 point sockets separated, as well those weird sizes. I've >> yet >> to use the 6.3mm socket for example. >> > > I bet you've used the 6.3mm socket a hundred times or more. You just > use the one that's labeled 1/4 inch. Ahh...nice piece of information -- thank you. best, doug From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Jul 3 19:20:35 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 18:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders In-Reply-To: <001001c7bd91$32058a80$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us> Message-ID: <818741.49470.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Nolan wrote: > I've yet to use the 6.3mm socket for example. That's a European euphemism for 1/4". Doug From bill at gingerich.us Tue Jul 3 20:15:23 2007 From: bill at gingerich.us (Bill Gingerich) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 21:15:23 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders/roll away's? In-Reply-To: <468A455C.2010703@teleport.com> References: <023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><023201c7bc3d$7ba8b770$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><3.0.5.32.20070702181513.00aaa038@pop.east.cox.net><01d401c7bd52$0f1f35a0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p> <468A455C.2010703@teleport.com> Message-ID: <004501c7bde1$2e81d3a0$64dea8c0@shack2> I only have one roll away at the moment. I feel so inadequate! BillG OKC -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Richard George Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 7:47 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Socket holders/roll away's? Keith, I've got 4 rollarounds (if you don't include the main workbench that's on casters as well) - one triple high, one just plain big double high, one for the plasma cutter and one for welding stuff that I actually modified the top so I could do light welding on. The tig welder/bottle is on wheels too... the scary part is that I actually seem to use most of the stuff in 'em periodically... As a show of support for the wife's attempt to dejunk her life I dug for a loong time and finally could only really find one thing (in the garage) to contribute to a yard sale - a minty Chinese 3/4" impact wrench, which I only used a couple of times before I got Darth (an IR2131). - put it out at a crazy low price w/ a new Craftsman case (like $10 over what the case cost me, and even then nobody else wanted it either (and it was a well advertised neighborhood wide sale :-/) rkg (Richard George) >Yeah... I love that answer... hell I have no idea how many I have... thou I >should have answered the original question... Those damn racks that are >trays with sticks that have the socket size on top is what I have the most >of... Red for SAE and Gray for Metric. > >Now the real question... how many roll aways do you have? I can't seem to >have enough.. currently there are 7 in my shop... 3 main box sets... Left >is specialty... center is the main box and the right box is metric... then >you have the two welder boxes... ( cheapy Craftsman bottoms with cages on >top and welders set up on top of them. ) My first roll away that I made out >of Pecan because I couldn't afford a steel one .... and my race box. >http://hotrod.com/projectbuild/113_0501_bonn/ Several nice pic's of my junk >and a fairly nice article... > >Keith.. From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jul 3 22:26:08 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:26:08 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders/roll away's? Message-ID: <070420070426.27931.468B21600005FF8F00006D1B22007347489D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> > Now the real question... how many roll aways do you have? I can't seem to > have enough.. currently there are 7 in my shop... Too pro for me. I only have two roller cabinet sets. One brown Kennedy/Craftsman combo that I used when I was a machinist. One three-piece red Craftsman set that my wife bought me when we moved in 1998. My socket holders are the full-drawer Craftsman trays with the round holes for sockets. One drawer for metric, one for SAE. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, 1994 Miata C package pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jul 3 22:42:29 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:42:29 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <070420070442.9549.468B25350004A3E50000254D22007347489D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> > I know I have a lot of socket sizes I have never used, and probably > never will... Go out to your shop and pick out one of them. Toss it in the trash. Ten minutes after your trash pickup, you will need that socket for something. Don't tempt Murphy. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, 1994 Miata C package pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. From pethier at comcast.net Tue Jul 3 23:10:53 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 05:10:53 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders/roll away's? Message-ID: <070420070510.25792.468B2BDD000AC9DA000064C022070209539D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> From: "Bill Gingerich" > I only have one roll away at the moment. I feel so inadequate! > > BillG > OKC Bill! Good to hear from you! How are they treating you there in OK? Have you hooked up with the local Triumph folks? Check out my Flickr site to see what we've been up to back in Minnesota since you left. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, 1994 Miata C package pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. From jibjib at att.net Wed Jul 4 08:45:44 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 07:45:44 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders/roll away's? In-Reply-To: <070420070426.27931.468B21600005FF8F00006D1B22007347489D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> References: <070420070426.27931.468B21600005FF8F00006D1B22007347489D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <00ad01c7be4a$00fe1f60$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> > Now the real question... how many roll aways do you have? Zero. I have two stacked dresser cabinets; the ones my brother and I used as kids. With a huge pegboard holding all of the combination wrenches (many with 6-8 of the same size) and other hangable stuff including some socket sets, it's all the space I need. Cheap Jack From nases at verizon.net Wed Jul 4 10:28:05 2007 From: nases at verizon.net (Phil Nase) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:28:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile Message-ID: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> Anyone ever put down the interlocking garage floor tiles available? I am thinking about putting down two 18'x7' area to park the cars on. I would like a solid tile rather the the perforated ones. Every brand I look at seems very expensive and before I spend the money I would like to know others' experiences/recommendations. Thanks. Phil Nase Quakertown, PA http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Jul 4 11:44:48 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:44:48 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile In-Reply-To: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> References: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070704134350.01d99678@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 12:28 PM 7/4/2007, you wrote: >Anyone ever put down the interlocking garage floor tiles available? I am >thinking about putting down two 18'x7' area to park the cars on. Haven't used them, but they look like a filth collecting, difficult to clean nightmare. -WC From cavanadd at verizon.net Wed Jul 4 14:58:50 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:58:50 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor disconnect Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704135116.025ace18@incoming.verizon.net> I'm replacing my old 3 HP portable air compressor with a 5 HP vertical stationary model. The old compressor has a lever on the pressure switch assembly so I can switch it on and off and I normally leave it off when I'm not in the shop. The new compressor has similar pressure switch but no lever. For the time being I guess I'll switch it on and off at the breaker as I don't want to leave it energized when I'm not in the shop, which is mostly on weekends. There's no reason to keep it energized and pressurized when I don't need it. None of the hardware stores sell a separate disconnect (other than an AC "pull out" disconnect) so I wonder what you folks do? Will I have to go to Graingers and get a disconnect switch? The thing was also shipped, according to the manual, without oil, although a little is showing in the sight glass. The instructions said to use ISO 100 compressor oil, single weight non detergent motor oil (no weight given) or 5w30 or 10w30 Mobil 1 Synthetic. That seems mutually exclusive as ND oil is designed to let the crap and particulate settle into the crankcase, and multiweight automotive motor oils are designed to keep it all in suspension so the oil filter (which the compressor doesn't have) can filter it out. I was able to get a couple of quarts of "compressor oil" but I suspect 20 or 30 ND would work just as well. Any opinions? From doug at dougbraun.com Wed Jul 4 15:12:40 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 14:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070704134350.01d99678@mailsvr.xxiii.com> Message-ID: <437789.71679.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Unless you expect your garage to look like the ones in the ads for those floor tiles, I think they are probably not such a good idea. If all you do in your garage is detail your Ferrari, they they would probably be OK. Doug --- wmc_st at xxiii.com wrote: > At 12:28 PM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > >Anyone ever put down the interlocking garage floor > tiles available? I am > >thinking about putting down two 18'x7' area to park > the cars on. > > Haven't used them, but they look like a filth > collecting, difficult > to clean nightmare. From bugi1960 at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 17:15:33 2007 From: bugi1960 at gmail.com (Phil Nase) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:15:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile In-Reply-To: <437789.71679.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070704134350.01d99678@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <437789.71679.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c7be91$398f81b0$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> I don't think anyone will ever mistake my Bugeyes for a Ferrari;) I'm just trying to keep the British Car leaks off the floor and hide some epoxy floor paint bad spots. Thanks. Phil Nase Quakertown, PA http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Braun Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 5:13 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage tile Unless you expect your garage to look like the ones in the ads for those floor tiles, I think they are probably not such a good idea. If all you do in your garage is detail your Ferrari, they they would probably be OK. Doug --- wmc_st at xxiii.com wrote: > At 12:28 PM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > >Anyone ever put down the interlocking garage floor > tiles available? I am > >thinking about putting down two 18'x7' area to park > the cars on. > > Haven't used them, but they look like a filth collecting, difficult to > clean nightmare. _______________________________________________ bugi1960 at gmail.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From scott.hall at comcast.net Wed Jul 4 17:18:58 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 23:18:58 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? Message-ID: <070420072318.4808.468C2AE20002D23D000012C8220075043804040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> subject says it all. seems like it's time to add my very own mill to the garage. the guy that I learned from had nice things to say about cincinnati products, though we used two lagun republic jobbies. but it seems like bridgeports are ubiquitous and might be easier to source parts/help for. so all else being equal, should I start my search for one or the other? any particular models to avoid? (yes, I googled, but you guys actually use them and discuss in real time. but any additional web sites appreciated.) thanks in advance. scott From pethier at comcast.net Wed Jul 4 17:28:09 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 23:28:09 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? Message-ID: <070420072328.15337.468C2D090001D5F700003BE922058860149D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> From: scott.hall at comcast.net > subject says it all. seems like it's time to add my very own mill to the > garage. Color me BRG with envy. I have run both Bridgeport and Lagun mills and I'd be thrilled to have my own, but it just ain't gonna happen. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, 1994 Miata C package pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Wed Jul 4 17:37:20 2007 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 16:37:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? References: <070420072328.15337.468C2D090001D5F700003BE922058860149D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <010001c7be94$451e4f40$38357d80@XLH883> Dear Phil, I have used neither, but I ride my Sportster every day to USC past a Republic Lagun plant on the Harbor Fwy in Los Angeles (actually Carson), but I just now made the connection (slap myself on the side of the head). I need to stop by there and take a look. Thank you for waking me up. best, doug ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? > From: scott.hall at comcast.net >> subject says it all. seems like it's time to add my very own mill to the >> garage. > > Color me BRG with envy. > > I have run both Bridgeport and Lagun mills and I'd be thrilled to have my > own, but it just ain't gonna happen. > > -- > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, > 1994 Miata C package > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. > _______________________________________________ > dirtbeard at pacbell.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From herby at herbytoys.com Wed Jul 4 18:01:33 2007 From: herby at herbytoys.com (Herby) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:01:33 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? In-Reply-To: <070420072318.4808.468C2AE20002D23D000012C8220075043804040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000301c7be97$a7aeac10$6501a8c0@HERBYZ> Scott, I (my company actually) have old repairable Moog tape "CNC" mill you can have for free. Shipping's on you of course :) Herby 63 MKII Sprite (Herbytoy - patiently waiting) 62 MKII Sprite (the "resto-mod" driver) 00 Dakota R/T (the new toy) herby at herbytoys.com www.herbytoys.com subject says it all. seems like it's time to add my very own mill to the garage. the guy that I learned from had nice things to say about cincinnati products, though we used two lagun republic jobbies. but it seems like bridgeports are ubiquitous and might be easier to source parts/help for. so all else being equal, should I start my search for one or the other? any particular models to avoid? (yes, I googled, but you guys actually use them and discuss in real time. but any additional web sites appreciated.) thanks in advance. scott From cavanadd at verizon.net Wed Jul 4 19:44:28 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:44:28 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor hook up In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070701123703.026dacd8@incoming.verizon.net> References: <001001c7bbc7$24906f80$94047247@fred8kwiskhcfu> <227216.42102.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704184206.025ad1f0@incoming.verizon.net> Sorry if this is a duplicate post but I don't know if the previous post went through. I'm replacing my old 3 HP portable air compressor with a 5 HP vertical stationary model. The old compressor has a lever on the pressure switch assembly so I can switch it on and off and I normally leave it off when I'm not in the shop. The new compressor has similar pressure switch but no lever. For the time being I guess I'll switch it on and off at the breaker as I don't want to leave it energized when I'm not in the shop, which is mostly on weekends. There's no reason to keep it energized and pressurized when I don't need it. None of the hardware stores sell a separate disconnect (other than an AC "pull out" disconnect) so I wonder what you folks do? Will I have to go to Graingers and get a disconnect switch? The thing was also shipped, according to the manual, without oil, although a little is showing in the sight glass. The instructions said to use ISO 100 compressor oil, single weight non detergent motor oil (no weight given) or 5w30 or 10w30 Mobil 1 Synthetic. That seems mutually exclusive as ND oil is designed to let the crap and particulate settle into the crankcase, and multiweight automotive motor oils are designed to keep it all in suspension so the oil filter (which the compressor doesn't have) can filter it out. I was able to get a couple of quarts of "compressor oil" but I suspect 20 or 30 ND would work just as well. Any opinions? From shiples at comcast.net Wed Jul 4 20:07:57 2007 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 19:07:57 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? In-Reply-To: <070420072318.4808.468C2AE20002D23D000012C8220075043804040E 08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070704182126.033bbd70@mail.comcast.net> At 11:18 PM 7/4/2007 +0000, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: >subject says it all. seems like it's time to add my very own mill to the >garage. the guy that I learned from had nice things to say about >cincinnati products, though we used two lagun republic jobbies. but it >seems like bridgeports are ubiquitous and might be easier to source >parts/help for. With two quarters of trade school under my belt and a similar unrealized desire here's my angle. My dream would be a Bridgeport Series II. I like being able to set the speed (surface feet?) with a crank rather than changing belts. I think the Lagun were variable speed as well. If I was in the position to do this I'd be recruiting my instructor or a working machinist to lead me through this. I've also seen a lot of equipment at the local trade school under repair so I'd be sure I wasn't getting the used machine that was on it's last legs. Wear affects your tolerances and setup time. The retired machinist here in the Seattle area bought a Jet mill and lathe to set up a small shop. One of his income streams is resleaving Jaguar brake calipers. He uses a tool post that has three? setups so he's ready to perform this operation quickly and on demand. The other element to consider when choosing a brand is year. A lot of these brands are simply brands. I don't think a new Bridgeport is built in the same place or by the same company any more. Further note. The trade school sold some donated equipment that was German. Good stuff apparently, but metric. Not a disaster, but one guy had to shop the German Ebay for a drill chuck and t-nuts as I recall. You have power? Apparently the phase converter was purchased from Ebay as well. Someone else will have to explain the CNC bit. As a hobbyist, they wouldn't let me touch that stuff. Steve Shipley From kturk at ala.net Wed Jul 4 20:19:36 2007 From: kturk at ala.net (Keith Turk) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 21:19:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? References: <070420072318.4808.468C2AE20002D23D000012C8220075043804040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <028e01c7beaa$efa675d0$6400a8c0@keithhrijwmm4p> I like you have lusted over these two items for years.... ended up with a 1973 J series Bridgeport and a 4', 13" swing lathe.... I love the lathe... the Milling machine has a couple of issues to work out... but it runs perfectly... the table cross screw is messed up... and the spindle drive... but both are relatively minor issues... The freaking lathe has been a total live saver... can't believe I never had one before... simply can't believe how many times I've gone to it to make stuff work that otherwise would be junk... Keith From mikey at b2systems.com Wed Jul 4 21:12:51 2007 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 20:12:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile In-Reply-To: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> References: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070704200248.04b9e630@b2systems.com> Totally and completely love my tiles, one of the very best things I ever did for my garage (the lift is still the best). It brightens up the shop and puts a smile on my face every time I go out there and until I got the lift it was nice to work under the cars on the tiles, they are so much warmer than cardboard on concrete. My wife likes it because she can go out to the washer/dryer in her bare feet and not freeze her feet off. I think but I have no proof of this other than "I believe" that it has warmed up the garage in the winter time, ok no it does not keep it toasty but the tiles insulate the cold concrete a little and I think its 1 or 2 degrees warmer (it is the 4th as I type this but I am not drunk (yet) ). The only issue I have had with them is burning holes in them when welding or using the plasma cutter, I have had to work around that issue by throwing a welding blanket down before welding or doing my welding outside, my next garage I will leave a section un-tiled for metal work. I did all white under the lift to reflect light back up under the car and that has been a bitch to clean up after a week of work pulling gearbox, etc. that all white section was mostly black, a quart of lacquer thinner and a mop later it was bright white again. Gouged them here and there with heavy crap falling or sliding on them but its not visible and they look great after 6 years and going. The rest of the floor is the standard B&W checker with Red here and there and looks great. And for the other posters, I don't have a Ferrari to detail (although one car is awfully close to a Ferrari), my cars are the usual leaky need constant work British cars. mike p.s. it looks good too :) At 09:28 AM 7/4/2007, Phil Nase wrote: >Anyone ever put down the interlocking garage floor tiles available? I am >thinking about putting down two 18'x7' area to park the cars on. > >I would like a solid tile rather the the perforated ones. Every brand I >look at seems very expensive and before I spend the money I would like to >know others' experiences/recommendations. > >Thanks. > >Phil Nase >Quakertown, PA >http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa >_______________________________________________ >mikey at b2systems.com > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Rambour Bug Writer err...Programmer mikey at b2systems.com ******************************************************************************* http://www.dinospider.com/ all about the ULTIMATE ALMOST a Ferrari http://www.singercars.com/ all about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From herby at herbytoys.com Wed Jul 4 21:59:26 2007 From: herby at herbytoys.com (Herby) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 20:59:26 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? Message-ID: <000501c7beb8$e2c88340$6501a8c0@HERBYZ> If anybody is interested just LMK. We could use the floor space. Herby 63 MKII Sprite (Herbytoy - patiently waiting) 62 MKII Sprite (the "resto-mod" driver) 00 Dakota R/T (the new toy) herby at herbytoys.com www.herbytoys.com Scott, I (my company actually) have old repairable Moog tape "CNC" mill you can have for free. Shipping's on you of course :) Herby 63 MKII Sprite (Herbytoy - patiently waiting) 62 MKII Sprite (the "resto-mod" driver) 00 Dakota R/T (the new toy) herby at herbytoys.com www.herbytoys.com subject says it all. seems like it's time to add my very own mill to the garage. the guy that I learned from had nice things to say about cincinnati products, though we used two lagun republic jobbies. but it seems like bridgeports are ubiquitous and might be easier to source parts/help for. so all else being equal, should I start my search for one or the other? any particular models to avoid? (yes, I googled, but you guys actually use them and discuss in real time. but any additional web sites appreciated.) thanks in advance. scott From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Jul 4 22:41:36 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 21:41:36 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? In-Reply-To: <000501c7beb8$e2c88340$6501a8c0@HERBYZ> Message-ID: <20070705044137.IWDA14967.mta16.adelphia.net@randall> > If anybody is interested just LMK. We could use the floor space. I'd love to have it, but there's this small problem of it being 3000 miles away from me ... Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Jul 4 22:48:42 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 21:48:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor hook up In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704184206.025ad1f0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20070705044842.JEPX14967.mta16.adelphia.net@randall> > None of the hardware > stores sell a separate disconnect (other than an AC "pull > out" disconnect) so I wonder what you folks do? I'm surprised you can't find them in the hardware store ... I'd pick one up on eBay. > The thing was also shipped, according to the manual, without > oil, although a little is showing in the sight glass. Should probably be drained & replaced. > able to get a couple of quarts of "compressor oil" but I > suspect 20 or 30 ND would work just as well. Any opinions? A big compressor is still on my wish list; but my little "2.5hp" (which in reality is closer to 1 hp) seems happier with synthetic motor oil. Since it's only air leaking past the rings, I don't think choice of oil is as critical as it might be for a car motor. Randall From bill at gingerich.us Thu Jul 5 06:55:36 2007 From: bill at gingerich.us (Bill Gingerich) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 07:55:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor hook up In-Reply-To: <20070705044842.JEPX14967.mta16.adelphia.net@randall> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704184206.025ad1f0@incoming.verizon.net> <20070705044842.JEPX14967.mta16.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: <002d01c7bf03$c8716430$64dea8c0@shack2> I don't know for sure if the oil makes much difference, but why take the chance? I found Ingersoll Rand synthetic oil at a local tool supplier for $7.00 a quart. Sounds like a lot, but since my 7 HP 80 gallon 2 stage unit uses 2 quarts, $14 wasn't that bad. Seemed like cheap "insurance" to me. BillG OKC -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 11:49 PM To: 'shop-talk List' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Air compressor hook up > None of the hardware > stores sell a separate disconnect (other than an AC "pull > out" disconnect) so I wonder what you folks do? I'm surprised you can't find them in the hardware store ... I'd pick one up on eBay. > The thing was also shipped, according to the manual, without > oil, although a little is showing in the sight glass. Should probably be drained & replaced. > able to get a couple of quarts of "compressor oil" but I > suspect 20 or 30 ND would work just as well. Any opinions? A big compressor is still on my wish list; but my little "2.5hp" (which in reality is closer to 1 hp) seems happier with synthetic motor oil. Since it's only air leaking past the rings, I don't think choice of oil is as critical as it might be for a car motor. Randall From jamesf at groupwbench.org Thu Jul 5 08:50:12 2007 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (jamesf at groupwbench.org) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> > My treadmill is tripping the GFCI for some reason lately. 20amp breaker, > 12ga wire, 20amp gfci duplex outlet. I do know that treadmills specifically will trip arc-fault breakers, which are now required in bedrooms, so I'd bet they play havoc with the logic of a GFCI too. Is there anything in the manual regarding the use of GFCIs? I've never heard of a GFCI wearing out. jim From wmc_st at xxiii.com Thu Jul 5 09:20:04 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 11:20:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor disconnect In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704135116.025ace18@incoming.verizon.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704135116.025ace18@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070705110358.01e4d008@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 04:58 PM 7/4/2007, you wrote: >The old compressor has a lever on the pressure switch assembly so I >can switch it on and off and I normally leave it off when I'm not >in the shop. The new compressor has similar pressure switch but no lever. Put a 90deg turn ball valve on the tank's outlet. Leave it powered & pressurized all the time. The compressor & tank shouldn't leak down at all; you'll run the motor less and consume less power vs letting it drain down and pumping it up from zero. >There's no reason to keep it energized and pressurized when I don't need it. Sure there is, see above. Mine used to have a leak on the pump's piping, and the hoses, etc usually leak. So it would kick on a couple times a day. Now with the shut off at the tank, it can sit unused for 2 weeks, and still be ready to go when I need it. Most the stuff I do is small, so it lessens wear not having to pump it up from zero just to inflate tires or dust off metal with the grinder. >The instructions said to use ISO 100 compressor oil, single weight >non detergent motor oil (no weight given) I think anything with pistons and rings should be allowed to thoroughly break in before using synthetic. It sounds like the manufacturer thinks 30 weight is appropriate for full temperature use. Use straight-weight 30 for a while (50+ hours???) Then go synthetic with the narrowest gap, like 10W30 unless your shop gets well below freezing, then maybe 5W30. -Wayne From cavanadd at verizon.net Thu Jul 5 11:28:27 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:28:27 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor hook up In-Reply-To: <002d01c7bf03$c8716430$64dea8c0@shack2> References: <20070705044842.JEPX14967.mta16.adelphia.net@randall> <5.0.0.25.2.20070704184206.025ad1f0@incoming.verizon.net> <20070705044842.JEPX14967.mta16.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070705102745.025eb670@incoming.verizon.net> I agree; I bought two quarts of compressor oil, took about a pint to bring the level up. Looks like I'll have lots extra. At 07:55 AM 7/5/2007 -0500, Bill Gingerich wrote: >I don't know for sure if the oil makes much difference, but why take the >chance? I found Ingersoll Rand synthetic oil at a local tool supplier for >$7.00 a quart. Sounds like a lot, but since my 7 HP 80 gallon 2 stage unit >uses 2 quarts, $14 wasn't that bad. Seemed like cheap "insurance" to me. > >BillG >OKC From cavanadd at verizon.net Thu Jul 5 11:31:20 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:31:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor disconnect In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070705110358.01e4d008@mailsvr.xxiii.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704135116.025ace18@incoming.verizon.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20070704135116.025ace18@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070705102934.026145a8@incoming.verizon.net> >Put a 90deg turn ball valve on the tank's outlet. Leave it powered & >pressurized all the time. The compressor & tank shouldn't leak down >at all; you'll run the motor less and consume less power vs letting >it drain down and pumping it up from zero. Good idea; I'm doing a leakdown test now to see how much, if any, it does leak down with the outlet valve closed. > >The instructions said to use ISO 100 compressor oil, single weight > >non detergent motor oil (no weight given) > >I think anything with pistons and rings should be allowed to >thoroughly break in before using synthetic. It sounds like the >manufacturer thinks 30 weight is appropriate for full temperature >use. Use straight-weight 30 for a while (50+ hours???) Then go >synthetic with the narrowest gap, like 10W30 unless your shop gets >well below freezing, then maybe 5W30. They DID recommend changing the oil after 50 hours of use (that may take me a while). I'm running compressor oil right now; when I run out I may try the synth, but it's going to be a while... Thanks Dave From cavanadd at verizon.net Thu Jul 5 11:37:39 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:37:39 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070705103156.025ea538@incoming.verizon.net> Variations on this topic go around on the several lathe lists I'm on all the time. One problem with commercial milling machines is they are usually three phase, so unless you already have a phase converter, or have three phase power available you will have to deal with that. Several work arounds, but something to consider. Another problem is that once machines that have been used in commercial, industrial or educational settings are sold, they are often pretty used up. It can be a big deal to bring them back to spec. I have a medium sized Grizzly knee mill that is a knock off of a Rockwell model from the '70s. It works fine for me and I haven't had any problems with it. A few years ago when I was in charge of facilities maintenance for a seaport I bought a 14" Chinese lathe and a Birmingham (also Chinese) Bridgeport knockoff, both single phase, and they worked great. The maintenance crew loved them. There are a couple of milling machine forums on Yahoo, you could cruise the archives for more info. Dave C At 11:18 PM 7/4/2007 +0000, scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: >subject says it all. seems like it's time to add my very own mill to the >garage. the guy that I learned from had nice things to say about >cincinnati products, though we used two lagun republic jobbies. but it >seems like bridgeports are ubiquitous and might be easier to source >parts/help for. > >so all else being equal, should I start my search for one or the >other? any particular models to avoid? > >(yes, I googled, but you guys actually use them and discuss in real >time. but any additional web sites appreciated.) > >thanks in advance. > >scott >_______________________________________________ >cavanadd at verizon.net > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From cak at dimebank.com Thu Jul 5 12:35:42 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <200707051835.l65IZgNp021303@moose.dimebank.com> I have *never* found a socket organizer that I like. When I started dealin with my personal case of British Car Disease, I bought a socket set at Sears. It had 3/8 and 1/2 drive ratchets, English and metric sockets, a few deeps and extensions. It came in a well organized blow molded case. All my other tools (such as they were) lived in the single-tray toolbox I had bought in high school. That slowly overflowed into a stack of shelves next to my bench. When I had to move, I bought a rolling cabinet from Sears and the matching extra deep top chest (that is, it's 18" deep rather than the normal 12" - only one of the full-width drawers is what you'd call deep at 2" or so). Extra deep allowed me to get my longest wrenches in, but I wasn't willing to give up entire drawers for a particular socket style/drive size, as some of my buddies did. I put the specialty sockets (8 point, screwdrivers, deeps) on clip rails, lying down, along with extensions and extra ratchets and such. The basic set of sockets is still in the blow mold case, heavily duct taped at the hinge, sitting on the cabinet's shelf :-) I think that sockets pretty much have to be stored horizontally to make anything like efficient use of drawer space. I have used the pre-arranged racks in other shops, and they require you to use a tall drawer that could better be used for large tools, and never have just the right combination of slots/posts/whatever. I mean, if I'm going to lay things out by size, where do I put the 8-point sockets, or my extras, or the articulated ones, or the three styles of spark plug socket, or the drive size adapters, or the Whitworth sockets, or the one I ground thin to get past the bumper, or ... there are never spots for these, so I am always going to need to organize my own. Wrenches are almost as bad. Early on, my organizing principle was that I wanted to be able to take the top chest with me to the track, so things that were in that category went there, and 'other stuff' went below in the rolling cab. That meant, as a side effect, that metric tools (mostly wrenches) were in the rolling cab, and shared space with some other stuff. That continues, even though I'm now at the point where the majority of my cars use metric fasteners. That drawer is a real problem, but there's no good fix. It got the foam wrench organizers and that helps; the non-metric wrench drawer has many iterations of the tapered ones, in plastic and metal, to hold all the various sets and styles of wrenches that have attached themselves to me. Again, a single style of organizer where the designer "knew" exactly what wrenches I have, would be a disaster. Everything else, pretty much, relies on being in small enough drawers, or being a big enough item, that it doesn't get lost when just tossed in. From shiples at comcast.net Thu Jul 5 12:43:15 2007 From: shiples at comcast.net (Steve Shipley) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 11:43:15 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? In-Reply-To: <070420072318.4808.468C2AE20002D23D000012C8220075043804040E 08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070705113502.033acc90@mail.comcast.net> >(yes, I googled, but you guys actually use them and discuss in real >time. but any additional web sites appreciated.) Thanks for the topic, I'm welding some terminally rusty sheet metal this week, but my ADD dictates I concentrate on machining :-( http://www.benchtest.com/index-w.html An interesting discussion that seems appropriate. Oh yeah, gotta get some more welding rod..... Which is best, Enco or Grizzly? From cak at dimebank.com Thu Jul 5 12:48:18 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <200707051848.l65ImIwp015033@moose.dimebank.com> > I think the problem we have here is the rust as much as anything. > it's so humid here the clips rust, and then you're hosed. An old machinist's trick is to put a block of camphor in each drawer. Old-timey pharmacies probably have a box of the little blocks. Failing that, you can get industrial-sized dessicant packs to toss in a drawer; when they change color, bake them in your garage toaster oven (you've got one of those for degassing brake pads and baking enamel paint, right?)... It also helps a huge amount to keep your garage temp above dew point all year long. I know that's not possible in some places :-) Best, chris From cornerexit at gmail.com Thu Jul 5 13:23:30 2007 From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:23:30 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <078f01c7bf39$f91b5e70$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Well, I ended up running a long extension cord over to another outlet in the shop. This specific outlet itself is a non-gfci but it is "protected" by a gfci outlet that is further upstream in that particular circuit. I was able to run the treadmill off this non gfci outlet and using an extension cord with no problems, and it did not trip the downstream gfci outlet. So I guess I change out the gfci outlet by the treadmill with non gfci outlet. From cornerexit at gmail.com Thu Jul 5 13:40:22 2007 From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:40:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile In-Reply-To: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> References: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> Message-ID: <079001c7bf3c$54020530$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> I too would be interested in peoples experience with these tiles. Any pictures of an actual working shop with these tiles would good as well. I just don't see how they could be functional in a working shop, but I'm sure there are things I am missing here. In my shop I do a lot of work on the race car while it is on the two post lift. This means there are all manner of spilled fluids, hot parts that are cut off the car that land on the concrete, sparks from the welder that land on the concrete etc. I just don't see how tiles can stand up to that kind of thing? I also use a number of rolling tools/equipment while under the car on the lift - trans jack, oil drain, welder, torch, differential stands etc and I wonder how these things will roll around on top of the tiles? In addition most every piece of equipment and storage cabinets in my shop is on wheels so I can reconfigure the shop based on the current project. I wonder how well rolling stock moves on these tiles. And I wonder how well it would work if only part of the shop floor were tiled? How would I get the rolling stock up the threshold onto the tiles or vice versa? My steel stock rack on wheels and my ammo cabinets are pretty darn heavy to push around as it is on the mostly smooth shop floor. The other corner of the shop has the metal fab equipment - welder, welding table, drill press, lathe, mill, grinders, bandsaw etc. In this area you have sparks, metal chunks, oil, chips etc falling on the floor. I wonder how easy that would be to clean up? On the other hand I just installed a power rack, 300lb. Olympic weight set, FID bench, and lat pulldown station in a corner of my shop and some sort of tile or mat under that equipment might make working out a little nicer. Wayne From cak at dimebank.com Thu Jul 5 14:10:12 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Screwdrivers Message-ID: <200707052010.l65KACus020958@moose.dimebank.com> > I keep my screwdrivers in one of the drawers of my main tool box. > My streight blades are on the left side of the drawer with the handles > to the left, and the phillips are on the right side with their handles > to the right. What do you do with the PoziDrive, Torx and Roberston items? The hex, tri-wing, torq-set and pin spanner? chris From cak at dimebank.com Thu Jul 5 14:48:35 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Socket holders Message-ID: <200707052048.l65KmZ9c014194@moose.dimebank.com> > Different manufacturers seem to have different 'favorite' sizes, it's > rare to find a nut that needs an 11mm socket but my Taurus SHO is lousy > with the things. The Japanese stuff I've run into seems to have a lot > of 12mm heads on M8 bolts. Oh, that's a favorite topic, indeed. The JIS metric standard is different from the DIN metric standard is different from the ISO metric standard. Choosing the right wrench/socket is the easy part. Finding the correct replacement fastener is where it gets hard. (FYI, Wurth sells a JIS assortment, but it is truly difficult to find some of the DIN metric nuts, much less nylocs.) From 57healey at gmail.com Thu Jul 5 14:57:39 2007 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:57:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com> I had 4 fail in the home inspection of the last house we sold. I never trusted the wiring in the house though, too many times the lights would dim for no apparent reason. Patton On 7/5/07, jamesf at groupwbench.org wrote: > I've never heard of a GFCI wearing out. -- Patton Dickson - http://Austin-Healeys.com - Plano, TX 1957 Austin-Healey 100-Six "Built to run 'til the road wears out." From doug at dougbraun.com Thu Jul 5 15:05:03 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 14:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <078f01c7bf39$f91b5e70$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <238841.49345.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In my old house, I tried using a 12-volt radio power supply plugged into a GFI outlet, and the GFI always tripped after a minute or so. When plugged into another GFI outlet (the same brand of GFI!) it worked fine. Nothing else would trip the flaky outlet, not even a table saw or a MIG welder. And both outlets tested OK and I was quite sure there were no problems with the wiring in the garage. In my current house, there were two GFIs above a countertop with a sink. They were probably less than 10 years old, and they had both failed: the test button did nothing. The moral of the story: Those GFIs can get flaky. Doug --- cornerexit wrote: > Well, I ended up running a long extension cord over > to another outlet in the > shop. This specific outlet itself is a non-gfci but > it is "protected" by a > gfci outlet that is further upstream in that > particular circuit. I was able > to run the treadmill off this non gfci outlet and > using an extension cord > with no problems, and it did not trip the downstream > gfci outlet. From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Thu Jul 5 15:09:02 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:09:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com> References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> <743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <468D5DEE.2010706@hornesystemstx.com> Patton, Most of the problems I have seen with mystery dimming or things just shutting off is from the cheap switches and outlets that allow for installation by just pushing the wires into the back of the devices. After a few years the connections get intermittent. They were designed so the electricians could do more installations in a given time. I've seen some devices that don't even have screws on them. You have to use the push in connections! I though that the electrical code outlawed these devices, but they are still on the market. Any time I go into a box that has push in connections I always redo the connections to use the screws instead. Makes things more reliable down the road. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Patton Dickson: > I had 4 fail in the home inspection of the last house we sold. I > never trusted the wiring in the house though, too many times the > lights would dim for no apparent reason. > > Patton > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From jblair1948 at cox.net Thu Jul 5 15:10:22 2007 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:10:22 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Screwdrivers In-Reply-To: <200707052010.l65KACus020958@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070705171022.00ad2780@pop.east.cox.net> At 01:10 PM 7/5/2007 -0700, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: >> I keep my screwdrivers in one of the drawers of my main tool box. >> My streight blades are on the left side of the drawer with the handles >> to the left, and the phillips are on the right side with their handles >> to the right. >What do you do with the PoziDrive, Torx and Roberston items? The hex, >tri-wing, torq-set and pin spanner? Chris, I have several sets of these. Once set is in the molded plastic case with one of my 1/4" drive socket sets. Others are in a DeWalt case in a tool box, or in my carry bag. I also have a couple of sets laying in the tool box in various drawers. But now that you mention it, none in the screwdriver drawer. John >_______________________________________________ >jblair1948 at cox.net > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From wmc_st at xxiii.com Thu Jul 5 15:25:52 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:25:52 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <200707052048.l65KmZ9c014194@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200707052048.l65KmZ9c014194@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070705171832.01e4ce30@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 04:48 PM 7/5/2007, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: >Oh, that's a favorite topic, indeed. The JIS metric standard is >different from the DIN metric standard is different from the ISO >metric standard. Choosing the right wrench/socket is the I've wondered about that too... I've had lots of "Asian branded" cars over the years, and for the most part a 10, 12, 14, and 17mm wrench will tear the whole thing apart. Then I go to buy replacement fasteners, and get these bastard sized heads, like 13mm or 15mm. Anyway, the thing I read says the Asian standards are mostly even sized (as above) while the Europeans use odd sized heads on the fasteners. Explains a lot, even if it is an annoying inconsistency. Even saw the local Advance Auto had "Euro Metric" and "Asian Metric" assortment packs of bolts. >truly difficult to find some of the DIN metric nuts, much less nylocs.) Lowes had a nice selection, including the M8-1.25 nyloc I needed a couple weeks ago... -Wayne From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Thu Jul 5 15:43:54 2007 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:43:54 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com> References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> <743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED09D@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> On 7/5/07, jamesf at groupwbench.org wrote: > I've never heard of a GFCI wearing out. Then Patton Dickson wrote: > > I had 4 fail in the home inspection of the last house > we sold. I have three GFCIs in my hose right now. Two of them (one a seldom used bathroom now that my daughter has moved out, the other an unused outside circuit) don't trip with their built-in tester or my plug-in tester . All were purchased and installed at about the same time. One of my "honey-dos" for the weekend. Tim Mullen From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jul 5 15:58:16 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 14:58:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070705171832.01e4ce30@mailsvr.xxiii.com> Message-ID: <20070705215817.JTWK26470.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> > Anyway, the thing I read says the Asian standards are mostly > even sized (as above) while the Europeans use odd sized heads > on the fasteners. My GM cars use 6.3mm, 10mm, 13mm, 15mm and 17mm. Plus the crank bolt is something like 23mm. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jul 5 16:04:00 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:04:00 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <238841.49345.qm@web606.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070705220401.DWVA27425.mta10.adelphia.net@randall> > In my old house, I tried using a 12-volt radio power supply > plugged into a GFI outlet, and the GFI always tripped after a > minute or so. When plugged into another GFI outlet (the same > brand of GFI!) it worked fine. In addition to getting flaky, I believe there is a significant variation in sensitivity even when they are new. Doug's story seems to support that theory. Likely his radio power supply had a suppression cap tied from hot to neutral or something, that passed just enough current to trip an overly-sensitive GFCI. Randall From cak at dimebank.com Thu Jul 5 16:08:06 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping Message-ID: <200707052208.l65M868p008977@moose.dimebank.com> > I had 4 fail in the home inspection of the last house we sold. I > never trusted the wiring in the house though, too many times the > lights would dim for no apparent reason. loose neutral? no, no, the classic sign of that is the lights getting brighter... From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jul 5 16:21:49 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:21:49 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <200707052208.l65M868p008977@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <20070705222150.VNXC25057.mta9.adelphia.net@randall> > loose neutral? no, no, the classic sign of that is the lights > getting brighter... Heh. I owned a house for awhile where the lights getting brighter was a sign that a fuse was blown ... Randall From cak at dimebank.com Thu Jul 5 16:23:50 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Screwdrivers Message-ID: <200707052223.l65MNoj8004739@moose.dimebank.com> > I have several sets of these. Once set is in the molded plastic case with > one of my 1/4" drive socket sets. Others are in a DeWalt case in a tool > box, or in my carry bag. I also have a couple of sets laying in the tool > box in various drawers. But now that you mention it, none in the screwdriver > drawer. It was mostly tongue-in-cheek, which I'm sure you realized. But it is an issue. I have a small drawer dedicated to screwdrivers. It has a motley collection of pry bars, err, straight screwdrivers. (No, really, my pry bars are scattered elsewhere based on size. I should have said chisels.) Many years ago, I got fed up with my chewed up Phillips tips and bought a #1 and #2 from Xcelite. They have black handles, unique to the drawer. When I started working on Triumphs, I bought #1 and #2 Snap-On PoziDrive drivers (gray handles, again, unique). I have a small jeweler's set and a small electronics set, both in carriers. Also some stubbies way in the back. For anything else, I have a very comprehensive set of interchangeable tips, in its case with drive handle, living in the drawer where the hex keys are. The SAE hex keys, that is. The metric hex keys live in the metric drawer, of course. (Thank goodness there aren't Whitworth hex keys - I think my head would explode.) It's pretty much impossible to keep up. Thinking about this makes me ... less annoyed when I can't find something in the kitchen drawers :-) chris From cak at dimebank.com Thu Jul 5 16:35:54 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware Message-ID: <200707052235.l65MZskq027307@moose.dimebank.com> > >truly difficult to find some of the DIN metric nuts, much less nylocs.) > > Lowes had a nice selection, including the M8-1.25 nyloc I needed a > couple weeks ago... Ah, but which wrench size? Europe changed from 14mm to 13mm for M10 at some point in the late 60s; there are people who charge huge amounts (relatively) to produce 14mm fasteners in the correct finish for the Porsche and Ferrari restorers. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Jul 5 18:13:02 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:13:02 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Screwdrivers In-Reply-To: <200707052223.l65MNoj8004739@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <20070706001302.LHKX26351.mta13.adelphia.net@randall> > (Thank goodness there aren't > Whitworth hex keys - I think my head would explode.) So I guess we shouldn't mention TorX, or spline drive, or clutch drive, or ... Oops. :^) Randall From herby at herbytoys.com Thu Jul 5 18:38:51 2007 From: herby at herbytoys.com (Herby) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:38:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? In-Reply-To: <468CE803.7050802@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <001301c7bf66$0815bc00$6501a8c0@HERBYZ> Sorry for not responding sooner. At work all day and no access to this e-mail account. The mill is a Moog Hydra-Point, 83-3000MC. See an old info sheet here . Power is 440V 3 phase (straight into machine, no external converter). Apparently these mills are manual Bridgeports that were "upgraded" to NC by Moog. This one has been converted to full CNC. The original tape reader is not available. The only known (meaning to the best of the machinists recollection!!) problem is the tool changer does not work. This is why we stopped using it. They could not discern the issue so we just pulled the fixturing off and moved it to our Haas. This Moog has not been used in at least 10 years. Machine is located in San Leandro, CA about 5 minutes from OAK (Oakland Int'l Airport). If there is serious interest I will get some pix tomorrow. Herby 63 MKII Sprite (Herbytoy - patiently waiting) 62 MKII Sprite (the "resto-mod" driver) 00 Dakota R/T (the new toy) herby at herbytoys.com www.herbytoys.com -----Original Message----- From: Pat Horne [mailto:roadsters at hornesystemstx.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:46 AM To: herby at herbytoys.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? Herby, Where are you located? What does the mill need to be put back in service? I assume it runs on 220 3 phase. Thanks, Pat Thusly spake Herby: > If anybody is interested just LMK. We could use the floor space. > > Herby > 63 MKII Sprite (Herbytoy - patiently waiting) > 62 MKII Sprite (the "resto-mod" driver) > 00 Dakota R/T (the new toy) > herby at herbytoys.com > www.herbytoys.com > > Scott, > > I (my company actually) have old repairable Moog tape "CNC" mill you can > have for free. Shipping's on you of course :) From doug at dougbraun.com Thu Jul 5 18:41:42 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <20070705215817.JTWK26470.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: <76530.34517.qm@web611.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Randall wrote: My GM cars use 6.3mm Is that actually what they call it? Doug From doug at dougbraun.com Thu Jul 5 21:15:04 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40707051937h7c4b9550o3a7e3c8e45750e3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am reminded: A couple of summers ago I was with my family in Greece, visiting my wife's family's summer house, and I needed a couple of 1/4-20 screws for making a camera mounting. It took some hunting around to find them in the small town where we were staying. I eventually found some at a shop that specialized in tractor parts, since there are a lot of John Deere tractors in Greece. Doug --- David Scheidt wrote: > On 7/5/07, Doug Braun wrote: > > --- Randall wrote: > > My GM cars use 6.3mm > > > > > > Is that actually what they call it? > > > > Yup. It's a #8 machine screw. I think they've > stopped, though. > > > -- > David Scheidt > dmscheidt at gmail.com From dmscheidt at gmail.com Thu Jul 5 21:26:46 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 23:26:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2400a5d40707051937h7c4b9550o3a7e3c8e45750e3a@mail.gmail.com> <548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> On 7/5/07, Doug Braun wrote: > I am reminded: > > A couple of summers ago I was with my family in > Greece, visiting my wife's family's summer house, and > I needed a couple of 1/4-20 screws for making a camera > mounting. > > It took some hunting around to find them in the small > town where we were staying. I eventually found some > at a shop that specialized in tractor parts, since > there are a lot of John Deere tractors in Greece. > Should have gone to a brit car shop. Tripod mount screws are whitworth! 1/4 inch for most small cameras, 3/8 for biger ones. Both whit sizes are have the same thread pitch as unc threads(20 and 16, respectively), and nuts interchange. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From cavanadd at verizon.net Thu Jul 5 21:43:53 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:43:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20070705113502.033acc90@mail.comcast.net> References: <070420072318.4808.468C2AE20002D23D000012C8220075043804040E 08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070705204211.02635e90@incoming.verizon.net> Now you're talking religion.... I think they come from the same factory, but my experience is that Grizzly holds them to higher standards of QC or at least finish. Most of my stationary tools are Grizzly. I have had pretty good luck with their customer service, too. I HAVE spent my share of $$$ at Enco, but it's usually for smaller stuff. Dave C At 11:43 AM 7/5/2007 -0700, Steve Shipley wrote: >Which is best, Enco or Grizzly? From cavanadd at verizon.net Thu Jul 5 21:49:40 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2007 20:49:40 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor disconnect In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070705110358.01e4d008@mailsvr.xxiii.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704135116.025ace18@incoming.verizon.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20070704135116.025ace18@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070705204829.0260cda0@incoming.verizon.net> Mine apparently will leak down a little. I pumped it up today around noon (about 140 PSI) and closed the discharge valve and switched the breaker off. This evening it was down to around 90; still a LOT better than my old Sears compressor. I did find a nice Siemens fused disconnect at Home Depot for $21 today; I'll be installing it with a couple of 30 amp fuses tomorrow. I also got a bunch of 3/4" copper pipe and fittings; I hope I still know how to sweat copper. That stuff has sure gotten expensive.... It's going to be nice to have compressed air at both ends of the shop without dragging hoses all over the place. Dave At 11:20 AM 7/5/2007 -0400, wmc_st at xxiii.com wrote: >At 04:58 PM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > >The old compressor has a lever on the pressure switch assembly so I > >can switch it on and off and I normally leave it off when I'm not > >in the shop. The new compressor has similar pressure switch but no lever. > >Put a 90deg turn ball valve on the tank's outlet. Leave it powered & >pressurized all the time. The compressor & tank shouldn't leak down >at all; you'll run the motor less and consume less power vs letting >it drain down and pumping it up from zero. > > >There's no reason to keep it energized and pressurized when I don't need it. > >Sure there is, see above. Mine used to have a leak on the pump's >piping, and the hoses, etc usually leak. So it would kick on a >couple times a day. Now with the shut off at the tank, it can sit >unused for 2 weeks, and still be ready to go when I need it. Most >the stuff I do is small, so it lessens wear not having to pump it up >from zero just to inflate tires or dust off metal with the grinder. > > >The instructions said to use ISO 100 compressor oil, single weight > >non detergent motor oil (no weight given) > >I think anything with pistons and rings should be allowed to >thoroughly break in before using synthetic. It sounds like the >manufacturer thinks 30 weight is appropriate for full temperature >use. Use straight-weight 30 for a while (50+ hours???) Then go >synthetic with the narrowest gap, like 10W30 unless your shop gets >well below freezing, then maybe 5W30. > > -Wayne >_______________________________________________ >cavanadd at verizon.net > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From jamesf at groupwbench.org Thu Jul 5 21:55:05 2007 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (jamesf at groupwbench.org) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 23:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Ejection pump system problem Message-ID: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Hi...I'm visiting a friend who is housesitting a friend of hers. That place has what appears to be a whole house sewage sump pump/ejection system, i.e. a large sealed (sort of) cylindrical tank buried in the basement floor with 2 large pipes coming in and two smaller pipes going out. These outbound pipes have what appear to be check valves on them and then a few feet up are large gate valves. This is 2" or so PVC. This morning a red alarm light & sound were activated on the box near it, but she saw no water. Tonight when we went there the basement was flooding and it was clear the tank was the source. We called the owner and he said to check the (two) breakers as they'd been tripping more & more frequently. They were tripped, we reset them and both pumps started pumping. After 15-30 seconds one or both would trip again. Repeat until tank is empty and pumps shut off. I noticed the two gate valves were not open all the way. The owner said he'd never touched them. My thinking is stuff gradually blocked the gates and the ensuing resistance caused the pumps to draw excess current. Being in Colorado we can't just run the water to test so it'll be a few days before they get home and use enough to test, but is my hypothesis viable? I find it hard to believe that both pumps would go bad at once. thanks, jim From jibjib at att.net Thu Jul 5 23:10:52 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 22:10:52 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor disconnect In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070705110358.01e4d008@mailsvr.xxiii.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070704135116.025ace18@incoming.verizon.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20070705110358.01e4d008@mailsvr.xxiii.com> Message-ID: <017301c7bf8c$073096e0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> >I think anything with pistons and rings should be allowed to thoroughly break in before using synthetic. When I bought my piston compressor I called the manufacturer about break-in and synthetic. They told me that synthetic (Mobil 1) was fine for break-in, but be sure to run the compressor for a length of time (one hour??) under no load conditions (drain valve open) to fully break in the cylinder walls. Read the manual and/or call the manufacturer for instructions. I had no issues with synthetic for my break-in. Jack From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jul 6 05:21:18 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 04:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Air compressor disconnect In-Reply-To: <017301c7bf8c$073096e0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <696791.82446.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My Delta compressor's instructions said the same thing about break-in. Doug --- Jack Brooks wrote: > be sure to run the compressor for a length of > time (one hour??) under no > load conditions (drain valve open) to fully break in > the cylinder walls. From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jul 6 05:34:51 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 04:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <278257.57712.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> When I first started visiting Greece about 12 years ago, I would occasionally see Minis, Triumph Sedans, Rovers, etc., but recently they seem to have pretty much disappeared, and now people drive the same kinds of cars as the rest of western Europe. The oddest car I ever saw in Athens was an AMC Hornet. Doug --- David Scheidt wrote: > Should have gone to a brit car shop. Tripod mount > screws are > whitworth! 1/4 inch for most small cameras, 3/8 for > biger ones. Both > whit sizes are have the same thread pitch as unc > threads(20 and 16, > respectively), and nuts interchange. From mark at noakes.com Fri Jul 6 05:52:44 2007 From: mark at noakes.com (mark at noakes.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:52:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Message-ID: <8371539.1183722764166.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net> I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room that I cannot find the source of. (I haven't run the table saw or the fireplace in quite a while.) It's very faint and not continuous. While I do have a gas water heater in the basement/garage, I'm worried about something electrical. The house is 19 years old. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. Thanks, Mark Noakes From eric at megageek.com Fri Jul 6 06:10:39 2007 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 08:10:39 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Message-ID: Mark asks about a burnt wood smell... Mark, call your local fire department. Tell them what you are smelling. Ask them if you could make a donation to the unit (if they are volenteers) in return for one of them coming in with their thermal cameras. Then it's just a matter of walking around looking at all the walls and such looking for hot spots. just an idea. Moose "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." Tori Amos From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jul 6 06:41:35 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 05:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <278257.57712.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <198095.95132.qm@web601.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Speaking of AMC Hornets, look at this picture, at the upper right car: http://www.clusterballoon.org/nebraska/ne_100.jpg I just stumbled across it. Doug --- Doug Braun wrote: > When I first started visiting Greece about 12 years > ago, I would occasionally see Minis, Triumph Sedans, > Rovers, etc., but recently they seem to have pretty > much disappeared, and now people drive the same > kinds > of cars as the rest of western Europe. > > The oddest car I ever saw in Athens was an AMC > Hornet. > > Doug From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri Jul 6 07:01:30 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:01:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell In-Reply-To: <8371539.1183722764166.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net> References: <8371539.1183722764166.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070706085932.01dc73a8@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 07:52 AM 7/6/2007, you wrote: >I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room that I >..... Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source >before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in >that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. That's scary. An infrared thermometer like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91778 is real useful for locating hot spots. Plus it's a real fun toy to have around, and only $40 @ H.F. -Wayne From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Fri Jul 6 07:23:01 2007 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:23:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell In-Reply-To: <8371539.1183722764166.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net> Message-ID: <001001c7bfd0$ca827ac0$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> Mark, are you experiencing exceptionally humid weather? I have noticed that if it is very humid, and the winds are calm to light, I will get a back draft down my chimney. Sometime it is more pronounced when we have windows open and there is cross ventilation pulling air in through you chimney.....dampers are not a tight seal..... -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mark at noakes.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:53 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room that I cannot find the source of. (I haven't run the table saw or the fireplace in quite a while.) It's very faint and not continuous. While I do have a gas water heater in the basement/garage, I'm worried about something electrical. The house is 19 years old. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. Thanks, Mark Noakes _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From mark at noakes.com Fri Jul 6 07:54:12 2007 From: mark at noakes.com (mark at noakes.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:54:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Message-ID: <27185462.1183730052308.JavaMail.?@fh1036.dia.cp.net> TN almost always has very high humidity year round so this is a possibility, and the fireplace is in the family room. Talking to the babysitter this AM an additional data point seems to be that the burnt smell is *maybe* more prevalent when the AC is running. I'm wondering about the return air plenum for the AC being close to the flue for the gas water heater. Thanks for the input so far guys...several things to think about, Mark Noakes ----Original Message---- From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Date: Jul 6, 2007 6:23 To: , Subj: RE: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Mark, are you experiencing exceptionally humid weather? I have noticed that if it is very humid, and the winds are calm to light, I will get a back draft down my chimney. Sometime it is more pronounced when we have windows open and there is cross ventilation pulling air in through you chimney.....dampers are not a tight seal..... -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mark at noakes.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:53 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room that I cannot find the source of. (I haven't run the table saw or the fireplace in quite a while.) It's very faint and not continuous. While I do have a gas water heater in the basement/garage, I'm worried about something electrical. The house is 19 years old. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. Thanks, Mark Noakes _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From wmc_st at xxiii.com Fri Jul 6 08:27:23 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:27:23 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ejection pump system problem In-Reply-To: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> References: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <468E514B.8020802@xxiii.com> jamesf at groupwbench.org wrote: > .... has what appears to be a whole house sewage sump pump/ejection > system, i.e. a large sealed (sort of) cylindrical tank buried in the > ... My thinking is stuff gradually blocked the gates > and the ensuing resistance caused the pumps to draw excess current. Being > in Colorado we can't just run the water to test so it'll be a few days > before they get home and use enough to test, but is my hypothesis viable? Ah the joys of mountain living... uphill septic systems! I have a similar setup, but the catch tank is buried in the backyard, and about the size of a large trash can. 40 gal maybe? I live in fear of the day it starts malfunctioning. When it does, screw "DIY"! I'm just calling a septic / plumbing pro to make it right. I really don't wanna mess with my own poop water, much less a friend of a friend's! So unless the friend's house sitting agreement included playing plumber -- ask the owner how they're going to arrange to pay the fix it guy! And what's the Colorado comment? Are you short on water out there? -Wayne From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Fri Jul 6 08:35:10 2007 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:35:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell In-Reply-To: <27185462.1183730052308.JavaMail.?@fh1036.dia.cp.net> Message-ID: <001201c7bfda$de569360$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> Oh, there was a baby sitter there? Is that smell something that gives you a "flashback" or gives you the "munchies"? -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mark at noakes.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 9:54 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell TN almost always has very high humidity year round so this is a possibility, and the fireplace is in the family room. Talking to the babysitter this AM an additional data point seems to be that the burnt smell is *maybe* more prevalent when the AC is running. I'm wondering about the return air plenum for the AC being close to the flue for the gas water heater. Thanks for the input so far guys...several things to think about, Mark Noakes ----Original Message---- From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Date: Jul 6, 2007 6:23 To: , Subj: RE: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Mark, are you experiencing exceptionally humid weather? I have noticed that if it is very humid, and the winds are calm to light, I will get a back draft down my chimney. Sometime it is more pronounced when we have windows open and there is cross ventilation pulling air in through you chimney.....dampers are not a tight seal..... -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mark at noakes.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:53 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room that I cannot find the source of. (I haven't run the table saw or the fireplace in quite a while.) It's very faint and not continuous. While I do have a gas water heater in the basement/garage, I'm worried about something electrical. The house is 19 years old. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. Thanks, Mark Noakes _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From mark at noakes.com Fri Jul 6 08:49:02 2007 From: mark at noakes.com (mark at noakes.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:49:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Message-ID: <4060363.1183733342442.JavaMail.?@fh1036.dia.cp.net> definitely a burnt *wood* smell and not the other kind of smell...and also picked when the babysitter/nanny wasn't there. Mark Noakes ----Original Message---- From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Date: Jul 6, 2007 7:35 To: , Subj: RE: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Oh, there was a baby sitter there? Is that smell something that gives you a "flashback" or gives you the "munchies"? -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mark at noakes.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 9:54 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell TN almost always has very high humidity year round so this is a possibility, and the fireplace is in the family room. Talking to the babysitter this AM an additional data point seems to be that the burnt smell is *maybe* more prevalent when the AC is running. I'm wondering about the return air plenum for the AC being close to the flue for the gas water heater. Thanks for the input so far guys...several things to think about, Mark Noakes ----Original Message---- From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Date: Jul 6, 2007 6:23 To: , Subj: RE: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Mark, are you experiencing exceptionally humid weather? I have noticed that if it is very humid, and the winds are calm to light, I will get a back draft down my chimney. Sometime it is more pronounced when we have windows open and there is cross ventilation pulling air in through you chimney.....dampers are not a tight seal..... -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of mark at noakes.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:53 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room that I cannot find the source of. (I haven't run the table saw or the fireplace in quite a while.) It's very faint and not continuous. While I do have a gas water heater in the basement/garage, I'm worried about something electrical. The house is 19 years old. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. Thanks, Mark Noakes _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From jamesf at groupwbench.org Fri Jul 6 09:25:44 2007 From: jamesf at groupwbench.org (jamesf at groupwbench.org) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Ejection pump system problem In-Reply-To: <468E514B.8020802@xxiii.com> References: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> <468E514B.8020802@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <3457.67.190.27.64.1183735544.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> > So unless the friend's house sitting agreement included playing > plumber -- ask the owner how they're going to arrange to pay the fix it > guy! They're bringing me beer :-) > And what's the Colorado comment? Are you short on water out there? I'm from MA so I only "know" what I infer, but I hear that runoff, like from your roof, doesn't belong to you unless explicitly stated in the deed. Runoff here feeds Vegas, LA and all the farms in between so water is highly regulated. The 20a circuit was tripped this morning but the 15a (backup pump??) was ok. However, no one except the cat was there between last night and this morning so it's odd that the pump(s) would have turned on. It's too dry for AC condensate to have any impact, a leaky toilet wouldn't put out more than a few gallons overnight, so maybe my constricted pipe theory isn't the issue and they need an electrician. jim From kradicke at wishboneclassics.com Fri Jul 6 09:45:04 2007 From: kradicke at wishboneclassics.com (Kai M. Radicke) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:45:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell Phone to POTS-Jack Adaptor? References: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org><468E514B.8020802@xxiii.com> <3457.67.190.27.64.1183735544.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <00da01c7bfe4$9fcf4c40$0200a8c0@amdx2> This question may have shop-relevance to someone ;-) Does anyone know of a cell phone accessory that will allow you to connect a regular POTS-jack (plain old telephone service jack, RJ11/14) device to your cell phone? I am trying to find an "as needed" solution to processing credit cards from my credit card terminal when I am not at the shop (like the upcoming VTR show in a week and a half). I could opt for one of the commercial cell phone plans that offer phones with built in credit card swipers, but they are very expensive and I would only need this functionality maybe 3-4 times a year. I could also use my laptop, but only if WiFi service is available. So interfacing my cell phone directly into my credit card terminal is looking like the best solution, if there is some sort of adaptor that would allow it. Any suggestions welcomed! Kai -- Kai M. Radicke Wishbone Classics * British Car Parts * www.wbclassics.com Ph: 215.945.7250 From lspector at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 10:00:38 2007 From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:00:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell Phone to POTS-Jack Adaptor? In-Reply-To: <00da01c7bfe4$9fcf4c40$0200a8c0@amdx2> References: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> <468E514B.8020802@xxiii.com> <3457.67.190.27.64.1183735544.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> <00da01c7bfe4$9fcf4c40$0200a8c0@amdx2> Message-ID: <167503c10707060900v6606ee0dkf741256e10931252@mail.gmail.com> I've never used one, but a quick search for "cell phone dock" popped a few devices like this (dock n talk): http://www.phonelabs.com/prd05.asp Looks like it might do what you want. -Larry On 7/6/07, Kai M. Radicke wrote: > This question may have shop-relevance to someone ;-) > > Does anyone know of a cell phone accessory that will allow you to connect a > regular POTS-jack (plain old telephone service jack, RJ11/14) device to your > cell phone? > > I am trying to find an "as needed" solution to processing credit cards from > my credit card terminal when I am not at the shop (like the upcoming VTR > show in a week and a half). I could opt for one of the commercial cell > phone plans that offer phones with built in credit card swipers, but they > are very expensive and I would only need this functionality maybe 3-4 times > a year. I could also use my laptop, but only if WiFi service is available. > > So interfacing my cell phone directly into my credit card terminal is > looking like the best solution, if there is some sort of adaptor that would > allow it. > > Any suggestions welcomed! > > Kai From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 6 11:02:39 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:02:39 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ejection pump system problem In-Reply-To: <3457.67.190.27.64.1183735544.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <20070706170239.JGSB25057.mta9.adelphia.net@randall> > The 20a circuit was tripped this morning but the 15a (backup > pump??) was ok. However, no one except the cat was there > between last night and this morning so it's odd that the > pump(s) would have turned on. It's too dry for AC condensate > to have any impact, a leaky toilet wouldn't put out more than > a few gallons overnight, so maybe my constricted pipe theory > isn't the issue and they need an electrician. Or maybe the same crud is also blocking the check valve open slightly, and allowing backflow into the tank ? I don't know much about these systems; but I'm guessing the pump is centrifugal rather than positive-displacement; which I think means it should draw less power if it's blocked rather than more. My guess would be something caught in the impellors; perhaps something that was flushed and shouldn't have been. Randall From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Fri Jul 6 11:28:34 2007 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:28:34 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell Phone to POTS-Jack Adaptor? In-Reply-To: <167503c10707060900v6606ee0dkf741256e10931252@mail.gmail.com> References: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org><468E514B.8020802@xxiii.com><3457.67.190.27.64.1183735544.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org><00da01c7bfe4$9fcf4c40$0200a8c0@amdx2> <167503c10707060900v6606ee0dkf741256e10931252@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED3A3@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Larry Spector wrote: > > I've never used one, but a quick search for "cell > phone dock" popped a few devices like this (dock n > talk): http://www.phonelabs.com/prd05.asp > > Looks like it might do what you want. >From the description - that the opposite of what he's looking for. That connects your cell phone to the hard wired phone lines. I read it that he is looking for a "phone line attachment" (the car reader) to connect to the cell phone to call out using the cell phone instead of a hard wire. Sorry, but I have no help on the original question... Tim Mullen From bobkegel at seanet.com Fri Jul 6 11:56:12 2007 From: bobkegel at seanet.com (Bob Kegel) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:56:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell In-Reply-To: <8371539.1183722764166.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net> Message-ID: <000401c7bff6$f42628b0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> > I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family > room that I cannot find the source of. Do you have any torchiere lamps with halogen bulbs? A cremating moth can stink up the whole room. Bob Kegel Aberdeen, WA From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 12:01:32 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:01:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell Phone to POTS-Jack Adaptor? In-Reply-To: <00da01c7bfe4$9fcf4c40$0200a8c0@amdx2> References: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> <468E514B.8020802@xxiii.com> <3457.67.190.27.64.1183735544.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> <00da01c7bfe4$9fcf4c40$0200a8c0@amdx2> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707061101k332647d5g913428a5d90e58cb@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/07, Kai M. Radicke wrote: > This question may have shop-relevance to someone ;-) > > Does anyone know of a cell phone accessory that will allow you to connect a > regular POTS-jack (plain old telephone service jack, RJ11/14) device to your > cell phone? > > I am trying to find an "as needed" solution to processing credit cards from > my credit card terminal when I am not at the shop (like the upcoming VTR > show in a week and a half). I could opt for one of the commercial cell > phone plans that offer phones with built in credit card swipers, but they > are very expensive and I would only need this functionality maybe 3-4 times > a year. I could also use my laptop, but only if WiFi service is available. > They exist. They're not cheap, though. I also don't know how well they work for data. Credit card processing is probably okay, given the low baud rate. It's also worth talking to your credit card processor, to find out what they charge for phone verification. Many processors have an automated phone system, where you punch the card number and amounts in, and they gave an authorization. You may, or may not, also have to make an impression of the card. The rates are higher; how much depends. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From doug at dougbraun.com Fri Jul 6 12:09:46 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell Phone to POTS-Jack Adaptor? In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED3A3@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Message-ID: <248156.17944.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That particular device would almost do what he wants, but the web site points out that the modem tones used by faxes, credit card readers, tvios, etc. cannot be handled by cell phone voice networks. Doug --- "Mullen, Tim" wrote: > Larry Spector wrote: > > > > I've never used one, but a quick search for "cell > > phone dock" popped a few devices like this (dock n > > talk): http://www.phonelabs.com/prd05.asp > > > > Looks like it might do what you want. > > >From the description - that the opposite of what > he's > looking for. That connects your cell phone to the > hard wired phone lines. > > I read it that he is looking for a "phone line > attachment" (the car reader) to connect to the cell > phone to call out using the cell phone instead of > a hard wire. > > Sorry, but I have no help on the original > question... > > Tim Mullen > _______________________________________________ > doug at dougbraun.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Fri Jul 6 12:17:32 2007 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:17:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell Phone to POTS-Jack Adaptor? In-Reply-To: <248156.17944.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED3A3@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> <248156.17944.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED427@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> From: Doug Braun [mailto:doug at dougbraun.com] > > That particular device would almost do what he > wants, but the web site points out that the modem > tones used by faxes, credit card readers, tvios, > etc. cannot be handled by cell phone voice networks. Whoops... You are correct. I read the information on that site "backward". It does look like it lets you use your corded equipment to send and receive calls through your cell phone... Sorry about that. ... Tim Mullen From clab at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 6 13:02:27 2007 From: clab at bellsouth.net (Chadwick E. Labno) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:02:27 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell Phone to POTS-Jack Adaptor? In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED427@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> References: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED3A3@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> <248156.17944.qm@web614.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED427@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Message-ID: <468E91C3.8030701@bellsouth.net> If you can use a laptop, use your cellular as a modem connected via the IR port. Provided you phone - and LT - has IR. I've done this with my Nokia with various devices, LTs, PCs and PDAs. Chad (ok, that was with a 6340, haven't tried my E-62) From herby at herbytoys.com Fri Jul 6 15:11:24 2007 From: herby at herbytoys.com (Herby) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:11:24 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? In-Reply-To: <001301c7bf66$0815bc00$6501a8c0@HERBYZ> Message-ID: <000601c7c012$376097d0$6501a8c0@HERBYZ> Here is a link to the pix. http://www.herbytoys.com/projects%20for%20sale.htm Also it is actually 480V 3 Phase. Guess I have Mopar on the brain. Herby 63 MKII Sprite (Herbytoy - patiently waiting) 62 MKII Sprite (the "resto-mod" driver) 00 Dakota R/T (the new toy) herby at herbytoys.com www.herbytoys.com -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Herby Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:39 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] bridgeport or cincinnati mill? Sorry for not responding sooner. At work all day and no access to this e-mail account. The mill is a Moog Hydra-Point, 83-3000MC. See an old info sheet here . Power is 440V 3 phase (straight into machine, no external converter). Apparently these mills are manual Bridgeports that were "upgraded" to NC by Moog. This one has been converted to full CNC. The original tape reader is not available. The only known (meaning to the best of the machinists recollection!!) problem is the tool changer does not work. This is why we stopped using it. They could not discern the issue so we just pulled the fixturing off and moved it to our Haas. This Moog has not been used in at least 10 years. Machine is located in San Leandro, CA about 5 minutes from OAK (Oakland Int'l Airport). If there is serious interest I will get some pix tomorrow. From eltonclark at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 16:43:44 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 17:43:44 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> References: <2400a5d40707051937h7c4b9550o3a7e3c8e45750e3a@mail.gmail.com> <548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > David wrote: > Should have gone to a brit car shop. Tripod mount screws are > whitworth! 1/4 inch for most small cameras, 3/8 for biger ones. Both > whit sizes are have the same thread pitch as unc threads(20 and 16, > respectively), and nuts interchange. *>>>Oops! please 'splain that: If it's 1/4 x 20 & 16 it ought be UNC . . . do you mean cameras actually have those beautiful round-contour thread forms of Whitworth? If Whitworth, I thought it would be sized by the wrench size . . . unconfuse me!* *Tony* From dmscheidt at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 17:19:52 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 19:19:52 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <2400a5d40707051937h7c4b9550o3a7e3c8e45750e3a@mail.gmail.com> <548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707061619m6df4870o8c0ec63ec9fbb72a@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/07, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > > > David wrote: > > Should have gone to a brit car shop. Tripod mount screws are > > whitworth! 1/4 inch for most small cameras, 3/8 for biger ones. Both > > whit sizes are have the same thread pitch as unc threads(20 and 16, > > respectively), and nuts interchange. > > > >>>Oops! please 'splain that: If it's 1/4 x 20 & 16 it ought be UNC . . . do > you mean cameras actually have those beautiful round-contour thread forms of > Whitworth? If Whitworth, I thought it would be sized by the wrench size . . > . unconfuse me! Whitworth bolts are referred to by their major diamter and pitch, just like American ones. A number of the diameters have the same pitch as the American (UNC) bolt does. Tools for whitworth are named for the bolt they fit, not their across flats measurement. So, the tool that fits a 1/4-20 UNC bolt is 7/16 AF, and is labeled as such. The tool that fits a 1/4-20 BSW bolt is about 0.44 inches, but it's labeled "1/4 BS". It's actually more complicated than that, though. The bolts that we call "Whitworth" on our LBCs aren't really. They're British Standard Whitworth (BSW), or British Standard Fine (BSF). These use the same 55 degree rounded threads as Whitworth, in the same diameters, and for BSW, the same pitches. BSF uses, not surprisingly, finer threads. The difference is that the head sizes for the BS stuff were reduced, to the next smaller size. The big heads apparently let people over-torque fasteners.So a 1/4-20 whitworth bolt has a head that you'd find on a 5/16 BSW or BSF bolt, which is a tad more than half an inch across the flats. It's for this reason that many tools that fit these bolts list two sizes on them like "1/2BSF | 7/16W". (Actually, my favorite Whitworth set are different sized at each end, so they have *four* sizes on them. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Jul 6 18:06:06 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 17:06:06 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40707061619m6df4870o8c0ec63ec9fbb72a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2400a5d40707051937h7c4b9550o3a7e3c8e45750e3a@mail.gmail.com><548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com><2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> <2400a5d40707061619m6df4870o8c0ec63ec9fbb72a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0a1101c7c02a$9d3fec00$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > It's actually more complicated than that, though. The bolts that we > call "Whitworth" on our LBCs aren't really. They're British Standard > Whitworth (BSW), or British Standard Fine (BSF). Except the ones that are British Association (which on a TR3 is the majority of the "Whitworth" threads). > So a 1/4-20 whitworth bolt has a head that you'd > find on a 5/16 BSW or BSF bolt, Are you sure about that ? My understanding is that a 1/4 BSW bolt has a larger head than a 1/4 BSF bolt. IOW, BSW is effectively the same as the earlier "Whitworth" (in much the same way as UNC is the same as NC). See, for example, http://www.internationalcockpitclub.org.uk/articles/article_threads.htm Randall (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From mg_garage at comcast.net Sat Jul 7 03:16:59 2007 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (Gordies Garage) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 05:16:59 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ejection pump system problem In-Reply-To: <20070706170239.JGSB25057.mta9.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: Randall is correct, a blocked pipe would cause a centrifugal pump to dead head, pumps no water, but does not damage the pump as it's a no load. A blockage in an impeller would cause high amp draws and subsequent tripping, but it's unlikely both pumps would suffer the same malady. It's possible there are two different reasons. YOu mentioned one was from a 15amp breaker. It's possible that breaker is too small. More likely the motors are old and getting tired. Could be pitting of the motor starter contacts too. YOu can take apart the starters and file the contacts. If these are 115V pumps and have a level control (float) with a piggyback plug, it's possible the float is bad and that could trip the breaker. That wouldn't be possible with a control panel and separate control circuitry, but I doubt you have that. Flushing baby/kitchen/anything type of wipes can clog a pump as can a myraid of other things that shouldn't be flushed. Oh, I'm operations mgr for a pump company, we work on large municipal pump stations, so I know a little of what I speak. Good luck. Gordie -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 1:03 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Ejection pump system problem > The 20a circuit was tripped this morning but the 15a (backup > pump??) was ok. However, no one except the cat was there > between last night and this morning so it's odd that the > pump(s) would have turned on. It's too dry for AC condensate > to have any impact, a leaky toilet wouldn't put out more than > a few gallons overnight, so maybe my constricted pipe theory > isn't the issue and they need an electrician. Or maybe the same crud is also blocking the check valve open slightly, and allowing backflow into the tank ? I don't know much about these systems; but I'm guessing the pump is centrifugal rather than positive-displacement; which I think means it should draw less power if it's blocked rather than more. My guess would be something caught in the impellors; perhaps something that was flushed and shouldn't have been. Randall Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 11:58:14 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 13:58:14 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <0a1101c7c02a$9d3fec00$6a5636cc@navcom.com> References: <2400a5d40707051937h7c4b9550o3a7e3c8e45750e3a@mail.gmail.com> <548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> <2400a5d40707061619m6df4870o8c0ec63ec9fbb72a@mail.gmail.com> <0a1101c7c02a$9d3fec00$6a5636cc@navcom.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707071058o29e345a0j1fffd03d1481a957@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/07, Randall wrote: > > It's actually more complicated than that, though. The bolts that we > > call "Whitworth" on our LBCs aren't really. They're British Standard > > Whitworth (BSW), or British Standard Fine (BSF). > > Except the ones that are British Association (which on a TR3 is the majority > of the "Whitworth" threads). > > > So a 1/4-20 whitworth bolt has a head that you'd > > find on a 5/16 BSW or BSF bolt, > > Are you sure about that ? My understanding is that a 1/4 BSW bolt has a > larger head than a 1/4 BSF bolt. > IOW, BSW is effectively the same as the earlier "Whitworth" (in much the > same way as UNC is the same as NC). > > See, for example, > http://www.internationalcockpitclub.org.uk/articles/article_threads.htm It's my understanding that BS 1083:1965 says BSW and BSF bolts and nuts of the same diameter have the same size hex. I don't have a copy of the standard, though, and I'm relying on Industrial Press to get things right. There's a table of sizes on page 1572 of the 27th edition. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Sat Jul 7 12:31:01 2007 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 14:31:01 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40707071058o29e345a0j1fffd03d1481a957@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006001c7c0c4$fc10c930$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> By the time the TR 3 was being made the Brits had converted to something other than Whitworth. As far as I could tell when I restored my TR 3, SAE bolts and nuts worked just fine....there was only one place that I actually found one of those weird Whitworths....it was the bolt and nut the held the big cable to the starter....there is a "Lucas Legend" about that. As the story goes, when the Allies were liberating France, the found a warehouse that had a huge supply of NOS starter lugs (apparently some Frog had screwed up an order and put a few to many zeros in the order and they had hidden the mistake in some obscure warehouse).....Lucas "made a deal" on the lot and continued to use them as long as the inventory lasted. I understand from friends who have resorted newer Triumphs that they lugs were still common on Lucas starters until the 70's. I can't guarantee the truth of this, but it sound like a plausible Lucas story.... -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Scheidt Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:58 PM To: Randall Cc: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware On 7/6/07, Randall wrote: > > It's actually more complicated than that, though. The bolts that we > > call "Whitworth" on our LBCs aren't really. They're British Standard > > Whitworth (BSW), or British Standard Fine (BSF). > > Except the ones that are British Association (which on a TR3 is the > majority of the "Whitworth" threads). > > > So a 1/4-20 whitworth bolt has a head that you'd > > find on a 5/16 BSW or BSF bolt, > > Are you sure about that ? My understanding is that a 1/4 BSW bolt has > a larger head than a 1/4 BSF bolt. IOW, BSW is effectively the same as > the earlier "Whitworth" (in much the same way as UNC is the same as > NC). > > See, for example, > http://www.internationalcockpitclub.org.uk/articles/article_threads.ht > m It's my understanding that BS 1083:1965 says BSW and BSF bolts and nuts of the same diameter have the same size hex. I don't have a copy of the standard, though, and I'm relying on Industrial Press to get things right. There's a table of sizes on page 1572 of the 27th edition. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Sat Jul 7 20:01:35 2007 From: stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com (Stevie G) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:01:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ejection pump system problem In-Reply-To: <2485.67.190.27.64.1183694105.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org> Message-ID: <005e01c7c103$ec9467c0$0201a8c0@steve> If you are comfortable working around electricity, pull the cover off the breaker panel and make sure the screws that attach the wires to the breaker are tight. We scanned the panels at the hospital every year with a thermal imager to make sure all the connections were tight. Loose wires = increased resistance and then the breaker tripping. This actually happened on my friend's hot tub. We chased a few different issues but eventually ended up at the breaker panel. Good luck with it. I've seen some decent advice here. From stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Sat Jul 7 20:07:16 2007 From: stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com (Stevie G) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:07:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Cell Phone to POTS-Jack Adaptor? In-Reply-To: <00da01c7bfe4$9fcf4c40$0200a8c0@amdx2> Message-ID: <005f01c7c104$b8212b80$0201a8c0@steve> My Brother in law was just at the AT&T store today and he thinks he saw what you are looking for. He even mentioned RJ11. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team. Does anyone know of a cell phone accessory that will allow you to connect a regular POTS-jack (plain old telephone service jack, RJ11/14) device to your cell phone? From jibjib at att.net Sat Jul 7 23:50:53 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 22:50:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <006001c7c0c4$fc10c930$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> References: <2400a5d40707071058o29e345a0j1fffd03d1481a957@mail.gmail.com> <006001c7c0c4$fc10c930$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> Message-ID: <026801c7c123$f3887150$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> I seem to recall that the SU's on the TR3 have some Whitworth fasteners. Jack TR's 3&8 -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Gerald Brazil Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 11:31 AM To: 'David Scheidt'; 'Randall' Cc: 'Shop-Talk List' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware By the time the TR 3 was being made the Brits had converted to something other than Whitworth. As far as I could tell when I restored my TR 3, SAE bolts and nuts worked just fine....there was only one place that I actually found one of those weird Whitworths....it was the bolt and nut the held the big cable to the starter....there is a "Lucas Legend" about that. As the story goes, when the Allies were liberating France, the found a warehouse that had a huge supply of NOS starter lugs (apparently some Frog had screwed up an order and put a few to many zeros in the order and they had hidden the mistake in some obscure warehouse).....Lucas "made a deal" on the lot and continued to use them as long as the inventory lasted. I understand from friends who have resorted newer Triumphs that they lugs were still common on Lucas starters until the 70's. I can't guarantee the truth of this, but it sound like a plausible Lucas story.... -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David Scheidt Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 1:58 PM To: Randall Cc: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware On 7/6/07, Randall wrote: > > It's actually more complicated than that, though. The bolts that we > > call "Whitworth" on our LBCs aren't really. They're British Standard > > Whitworth (BSW), or British Standard Fine (BSF). > > Except the ones that are British Association (which on a TR3 is the > majority of the "Whitworth" threads). > > > So a 1/4-20 whitworth bolt has a head that you'd find on a 5/16 BSW > > or BSF bolt, > > Are you sure about that ? My understanding is that a 1/4 BSW bolt has > a larger head than a 1/4 BSF bolt. IOW, BSW is effectively the same as > the earlier "Whitworth" (in much the same way as UNC is the same as > NC). > > See, for example, > http://www.internationalcockpitclub.org.uk/articles/article_threads.ht > m It's my understanding that BS 1083:1965 says BSW and BSF bolts and nuts of the same diameter have the same size hex. I don't have a copy of the standard, though, and I'm relying on Industrial Press to get things right. There's a table of sizes on page 1572 of the 27th edition. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk _______________________________________________ jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From nick at landform.co.uk Sun Jul 8 03:50:44 2007 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 10:50:44 +0100 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40707071058o29e345a0j1fffd03d1481a957@mail.gmail.co m> References: <2400a5d40707051937h7c4b9550o3a7e3c8e45750e3a@mail.gmail.com> <548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> <2400a5d40707061619m6df4870o8c0ec63ec9fbb72a@mail.gmail.com> <0a1101c7c02a$9d3fec00$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40707071058o29e345a0j1fffd03d1481a957@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070708095207.AAC639D794@relay.vnet.co.uk> At 18:58 07/07/2007, David Scheidt wrote: >It's my understanding that BS 1083:1965 says BSW and BSF bolts and >nuts of the same diameter have the same size hex. I don't have a copy >of the standard, though, and I'm relying on Industrial Press to get >things right. There's a table of sizes on page 1572 of the 27th >edition. BS 1083:1951 and 916:1953 gives BSW and BSF bolts as identical in dimensions except for TPI. Source Kemp's Engineers Year Book 1962. Noticing the date makes me think it would be worthwhile moving into the 21st century. Anyone have any thoughts about book versus cd versions of Machinery's Handbook? Thanks. Nick Brearley From mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Sun Jul 8 07:01:13 2007 From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org (Jimmie Mayfield) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 09:01:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell In-Reply-To: <8371539.1183722764166.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net> References: <8371539.1183722764166.JavaMail.?@fh1039.dia.cp.net> Message-ID: <20070708130113.GA73654@sackheads.org> On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 11:52:44AM +0000, mark at noakes.com wrote: > I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room that I > cannot find the source of. (I haven't run the table saw or the > fireplace in quite a while.) It's very faint and not continuous. While > I do have a gas water heater in the basement/garage, I'm worried about > something electrical. The house is 19 years old. > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source > before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in > that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. If your local fire department is unwilling to let you borrow/rent their thermal imaging camera, you can use a stethoscope to find tiny arcs in the wiring inside the wall. A few years ago I used one to chase down what turned out to be a loose wire nut in a junction box. You mentioned that you have a fireplace. Are you smelling burnt/burning wood or are you smelling the typical ash smell of a chimney with a downdraft? In my experience they are very different smells (the latter of which quickly gives me a headache). Jimmie From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Sun Jul 8 08:36:25 2007 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:36:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Machinery's Handbook? (was Metric Hardware) In-Reply-To: <20070708095207.AAC639D794@relay.vnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <006d01c7c16d$5d36b190$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> When making my choice a few years back I opted for the print version because on resource books like this, I derive a lot of "incidental learning" as I am trying to find something. It just doesn't seem to work the same way with CDs....Also, the book with lots of greasy finger prints on it is much more impressive than a scruffy CD. Oh, BTW....for all of your aging Boomers out there, the LARGE PRINT edition is worth the extra money. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of nick brearley Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 5:51 AM To: David Scheidt Cc: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware At 18:58 07/07/2007, David Scheidt wrote: >It's my understanding that BS 1083:1965 says BSW and BSF bolts and nuts >of the same diameter have the same size hex. I don't have a copy of >the standard, though, and I'm relying on Industrial Press to get things >right. There's a table of sizes on page 1572 of the 27th edition. BS 1083:1951 and 916:1953 gives BSW and BSF bolts as identical in dimensions except for TPI. Source Kemp's Engineers Year Book 1962. Noticing the date makes me think it would be worthwhile moving into the 21st century. Anyone have any thoughts about book versus cd versions of Machinery's Handbook? Thanks. Nick Brearley _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 09:09:26 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:09:26 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <20070708095207.AAC639D794@relay.vnet.co.uk> References: <2400a5d40707051937h7c4b9550o3a7e3c8e45750e3a@mail.gmail.com> <548399.93458.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2400a5d40707052026v4998b59p8f4a0aba60419fbb@mail.gmail.com> <2400a5d40707061619m6df4870o8c0ec63ec9fbb72a@mail.gmail.com> <0a1101c7c02a$9d3fec00$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40707071058o29e345a0j1fffd03d1481a957@mail.gmail.com> <20070708095207.AAC639D794@relay.vnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707080809k570a9d1bv91cc247d9a022e1b@mail.gmail.com> On 7/8/07, nick brearley wrote: > > At 18:58 07/07/2007, David Scheidt wrote: > > > It's my understanding that BS 1083:1965 says BSW and BSF bolts and > nuts of the same diameter have the same size hex. I don't have a copy > of the standard, though, and I'm relying on Industrial Press to get > things right. There's a table of sizes on page 1572 of the 27th > edition. > > BS 1083:1951 and 916:1953 gives BSW and BSF bolts as identical in > dimensions except for TPI. Source Kemp's Engineers Year Book 1962. > > Noticing the date makes me think it would be worthwhile moving into the > 21st century. Anyone have any thoughts about book versus cd versions of > Machinery's Handbook? > The CD is nothing more than a bunch of encrypted PDFs. It's a pain in the neck to deal with. It also won't work on anything but windows. Buy the book. You'll be able to use it for 50 years, and it's the same price. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From paul.mele at usermail.com Sun Jul 8 09:22:58 2007 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (paul mele) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:22:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Machinery's Handbook? (was Metric Hardware); CD vs print In-Reply-To: <006d01c7c16d$5d36b190$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> References: <20070708095207.AAC639D794@relay.vnet.co.uk> <006d01c7c16d$5d36b190$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> Message-ID: [paul mele] [paul mele] As a pack-rat with 2 buildings full of crap to prove it, I find it hard to make the choice, so I try to justify both options: browsing increases my learning; the CD is easier to search for related topics and cross ref's. And, yes, the bifocals are great, but big print is even better. From pethier at comcast.net Sun Jul 8 10:06:10 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:06:10 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Machinery's Handbook? (was Metric Hardware); CD vs print Message-ID: <070820071606.22575.46910B7200098BF10000582F22028887449D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> I don't think the CD fits into the Machinery's Handbook drawer in my Kennedy machinist's toolbox. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, 1994 Miata C package pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. From mark at noakes.com Sun Jul 8 10:49:56 2007 From: mark at noakes.com (mark at noakes.com) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 16:49:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell Message-ID: <10436737.1183913396971.JavaMail.?@fh1064.dia.cp.net> It's more the burnt wood smell you get like when you run lumber too fast thru a table saw on a dull blade...and no I haven't run the table saw for several weeks...and it's in the basement in a separate room to itself that does not have a tie to the HVAC. The odor is so faint that it is very hard to track down, but it maybe appears to correlate with running the HVAC and maybe the water heater at the same time. Both units are new this year and both are gas. It was a professional install on both systems to verify that they were brought up to latest code. I would wonder if there's something with the AC pulling flue exhaust back out of the water heater (the systems are connected) except that we have a CO monitor in the room that is the problem and it is reading zero. I haven't given up on electrical issues at all...just have not been able to narrow the problem so far. We live out in the county and have a contract fire dept...not sure they have a thermal camera to loan but will check. Also ended up with an unrelated emergency with the garage door opener that had to be addressed this weekend and so that has been a distraction on debugging as well. Thanks for any ideas... Mark Noakes ----Original Message---- From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org Date: Jul 8, 2007 6:01 To: Subj: Re: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 11:52:44AM +0000, mark at noakes.com wrote: > I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room that I > cannot find the source of. (I haven't run the table saw or the > fireplace in quite a while.) It's very faint and not continuous. While > I do have a gas water heater in the basement/garage, I'm worried about > something electrical. The house is 19 years old. > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source > before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in > that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. If your local fire department is unwilling to let you borrow/rent their thermal imaging camera, you can use a stethoscope to find tiny arcs in the wiring inside the wall. A few years ago I used one to chase down what turned out to be a loose wire nut in a junction box. You mentioned that you have a fireplace. Are you smelling burnt/burning wood or are you smelling the typical ash smell of a chimney with a downdraft? In my experience they are very different smells (the latter of which quickly gives me a headache). Jimmie _______________________________________________ mark at noakes.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Sun Jul 8 10:59:51 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 11:59:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell In-Reply-To: <10436737.1183913396971.JavaMail.?@fh1064.dia.cp.net> References: <10436737.1183913396971.JavaMail.?@fh1064.dia.cp.net> Message-ID: <46911807.2060103@hornesystemstx.com> Mark, You might approach the fire department to use your house as a training for their members in the use of the thermal camera. We also live in the county and have invited the volunteer fire department out when we are burning large piles of brush. We usually have a BBQ at the same time and most of the time they come out, watch, eat and make sure the embers are out before they leave. They have also burned down houses that owners needed to be demolished to allow their rookies to work on their hose skills. Peace. Pat Thusly spake mark at noakes.com: > It's more the burnt wood smell you get like when you run lumber too > fast thru a table saw on a dull blade...and no I haven't run the table > saw for several weeks...and it's in the basement in a separate room to > itself that does not have a tie to the HVAC. The odor is so faint that > it is very hard to track down, but it maybe appears to correlate with > running the HVAC and maybe the water heater at the same time. Both > units are new this year and both are gas. It was a professional install > on both systems to verify that they were brought up to latest code. I > would wonder if there's something with the AC pulling flue exhaust back > out of the water heater (the systems are connected) except that we have > a CO monitor in the room that is the problem and it is reading zero. > > I haven't given up on electrical issues at all...just have not been > able to narrow the problem so far. We live out in the county and have a > contract fire dept...not sure they have a thermal camera to loan but > will check. > > Also ended up with an unrelated emergency with the garage door opener > that had to be addressed this weekend and so that has been a > distraction on debugging as well. > > Thanks for any ideas... > > Mark Noakes > > ----Original Message---- > From: mayfield+shoptalk at sackheads.org > Date: Jul 8, 2007 6:01 > To: > Subj: Re: [Shop-talk] unnerving burnt smell > > On Fri, Jul 06, 2007 at 11:52:44AM +0000, mark at noakes.com wrote: > >> I'm getting a very unnevering burnt wood smell in my family room >> > that I > >> cannot find the source of. (I haven't run the table saw or the >> fireplace in quite a while.) It's very faint and not continuous. >> > While > >> I do have a gas water heater in the basement/garage, I'm worried >> > about > >> something electrical. The house is 19 years old. >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can find the source >> before it becomes disasterous? I guess I'll pull all the outlets in >> that part of the house this weekend to see if there are any issues. >> > > If your local fire department is unwilling to let you borrow/rent > their > thermal imaging camera, you can use a stethoscope to find tiny arcs > in > the wiring inside the wall. A few years ago I used one to chase down > what > turned out to be a loose wire nut in a junction box. > > You mentioned that you have a fireplace. Are you smelling > burnt/burning wood > or are you smelling the typical ash smell of a chimney with a > downdraft? In > my experience they are very different smells (the latter of which > quickly > gives me a headache). > > Jimmie > _______________________________________________ > mark at noakes.com > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sun Jul 8 16:36:07 2007 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:36:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized Message-ID: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Hey guys, Well the subject line sort of tells it all. I was following instructions for installing a fire department emergency open switch for our electric driveway gate (I got cited and was given until next week to install it). The instructions said drill/bore 3/4" hole for mounting the switch, which I did in a 6" by 6", 1/4" thick steel square gate post. Well it is big enough for the switch, but not the nut that holds it in (they were assuming access to the back of he plate, but this is a blind location). I have a face plate that will hold it to the post. Anyway, I have a 3/4" hole where it really needs to be about 1" (it is has a very thick 7/8" across the flats nut). I need a different way to attach the 3/4" cylinder switch to the stainless steel face plate or a way to open up the hole about 1/4". I could look for a very thin nut, but that will take some time. I probably could epoxy the switch to the plate and forgo the nut (this may be my best/easiest solution). I don't think I can hole saw it again as I would not have a pilot. I can try grinding it out, but that will take some time with that thick steel. I can get a blade for the Roto Zip, or the jig saw or the Sawzall. I could take the air hammer to it. Of course I can go out there with the torch and cut it open, but then I would have to repaint the post, and probably the gate and the other post so it would match. I am just thinking somebody here has a clever solution for increasing the diameter of an undersized hole in a thick piece of steel in a very visible location. Thanks in advance... best, doug '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 Harley XLH883 '03 GMC Cargo Van From ejrussell at mebtel.net Sun Jul 8 18:16:09 2007 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:16:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <008f01c7c1be$5d2f5ac0$0202a8c0@ejrussell> Can you put an access hole in the back side and then put a cover plate over that? Eric Russell STOC #2860 Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > > Well it is big enough for the switch, but not the nut that holds it > in (they > were assuming access to the back of he plate, but this is a blind > location). I > have a face plate that will hold it to the post. From clab at bellsouth.net Sun Jul 8 17:37:04 2007 From: clab at bellsouth.net (Chadwick E. Labno) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:37:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <46917520.8020104@bellsouth.net> Irwin Unibit #10220 Chad old dirtbeard wrote: >Hey guys, > >W > >Anyway, I have a 3/4" hole where it really needs to be about 1" (it is has a >very thick 7/8" across the flats nut). > >I need a different way to attach the 3/4" cylinder switch to the stainless >steel face plate or a way to open up the hole about 1/4". From arvidj at visi.com Sun Jul 8 17:42:13 2007 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:42:13 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <005001c7c1b9$9c3e5630$80a8a8c0@dellc84024> Depending on what the arbor looks like and assuming you have one arbor and mulitple saws that fit it plus a bunch of other things that might mess with this idea ... Put the 1 inch hole saw on the arbor and then try to put the 3/4 inch hole saw inside the 1 inch say and also on the arbor. This way the 3/4 in saw is the pilot for the 1 in hole saw. > Hey guys, > > Well the subject line sort of tells it all. I was following instructions > for > installing a fire department emergency open switch for our electric > driveway > gate (I got cited and was given until next week to install it). The > instructions said drill/bore 3/4" hole for mounting the switch, which I > did in > a 6" by 6", 1/4" thick steel square gate post. > > Well it is big enough for the switch, but not the nut that holds it in > (they > were assuming access to the back of he plate, but this is a blind > location). I > have a face plate that will hold it to the post. > > Anyway, I have a 3/4" hole where it really needs to be about 1" (it is has > a > very thick 7/8" across the flats nut). > > I need a different way to attach the 3/4" cylinder switch to the stainless > steel face plate or a way to open up the hole about 1/4". > > I could look for a very thin nut, but that will take some time. I probably > could epoxy the switch to the plate and forgo the nut (this may be my > best/easiest solution). I don't think I can hole saw it again as I would > not > have a pilot. I can try grinding it out, but that will take some time with > that thick steel. I can get a blade for the Roto Zip, or the jig saw or > the > Sawzall. I could take the air hammer to it. Of course I can go out there > with > the torch and cut it open, but then I would have to repaint the post, and > probably the gate and the other post so it would match. > > I am just thinking somebody here has a clever solution for increasing the > diameter of an undersized hole in a thick piece of steel in a very visible > location. Thanks in advance... > > best, > > doug > > '72 BSA B50SS > '74 Triumph TR6 > '01 Harley XLH883 > '03 GMC Cargo Van > _______________________________________________ > arvidj at visi.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From strovato at optonline.net Sun Jul 8 17:47:33 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 19:47:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <0JKV00C7NWU8EG40@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> When I have this problem with wood, I just nail a piece of plywood over the hole and use the hole saw through the plywood. This provides a pilot and then a guide bore for the saw. If I try to extrapolate to your problem, why don't you just tack weld a piece of steel over the hole and then use a larger hole saw? -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From jniolon at bham.rr.com Sun Jul 8 18:00:07 2007 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:00:07 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <00b001c7c1bc$1cb25490$6401a8c0@niolon> clamp a piece of thinner plate (say 1/8") that is larger than the hole enough to get two good clamps on it. I'd cross mark it to get the center then do the same to the hole in the post. line up the cross marks... drill the pilot hole in the center of the clamped plate which is also the center of the existing hole. when you drill thru the clamped plate it will act as your pilot hole for the thicker post material It might be quicker and easier to just predrill the clamped plate then just center it on the smaller post hole... same difference but you can predrill with a press and save your back leaning on the hand drill. Keep it oiled john Chinese Proverb When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. Pay it forward ----- Original Message ----- From: "old dirtbeard" To: Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 5:36 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized > Hey guys, > > Well the subject line sort of tells it all. I was following instructions > for > installing a fire department emergency open switch for our electric > driveway > gate (I got cited and was given until next week to install it). The > instructions said drill/bore 3/4" hole for mounting the switch, which I > did in > a 6" by 6", 1/4" thick steel square gate post. > > Well it is big enough for the switch, but not the nut that holds it in > (they > were assuming access to the back of he plate, but this is a blind > location). I > have a face plate that will hold it to the post. > > Anyway, I have a 3/4" hole where it really needs to be about 1" (it is has > a > very thick 7/8" across the flats nut). > > I need a different way to attach the 3/4" cylinder switch to the stainless > steel face plate or a way to open up the hole about 1/4". > > I could look for a very thin nut, but that will take some time. I probably > could epoxy the switch to the plate and forgo the nut (this may be my > best/easiest solution). I don't think I can hole saw it again as I would > not > have a pilot. I can try grinding it out, but that will take some time with > that thick steel. I can get a blade for the Roto Zip, or the jig saw or > the > Sawzall. I could take the air hammer to it. Of course I can go out there > with > the torch and cut it open, but then I would have to repaint the post, and > probably the gate and the other post so it would match. > > I am just thinking somebody here has a clever solution for increasing the > diameter of an undersized hole in a thick piece of steel in a very visible > location. Thanks in advance... > > best, > > doug > > '72 BSA B50SS > '74 Triumph TR6 > '01 Harley XLH883 > '03 GMC Cargo Van > _______________________________________________ > jniolon at bham.rr.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From eltonclark at gmail.com Sun Jul 8 17:59:47 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:59:47 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <0JKV00C7NWU8EG40@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> <0JKV00C7NWU8EG40@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: *I had this same type problem not long ago and, desparate, I chucked a 1/4" carbide side cutting burr into my router and hogged out my hole in about fifteen minutes . . (note "carbide")* On 7/8/07, Steven Trovato wrote: > > When I have this problem with wood, I just nail a piece of plywood > over the hole and use the hole saw through the plywood. This > provides a pilot and then a guide bore for the saw. If I try to > extrapolate to your problem, why don't you just tack weld a piece of > steel over the hole and then use a larger hole saw? > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > _______________________________________________ > eltonclark at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 8 18:50:49 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 17:50:49 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <006001c7c0c4$fc10c930$6681a8c0@DADSTOY> Message-ID: <20070709005049.BVRM12750.mta9.adelphia.net@randall> > By the time the TR 3 was being made the Brits had converted > to something other than Whitworth. As far as I could tell > when I restored my TR 3, SAE bolts and nuts worked just > fine... THen you weren't paying attention. Might be a few less on late 3As; but there were quite a few British fasteners on a TR3. All the threads on the SU carbs, most of the threads on the electrical equipment (starter stud, starter solenoid, mounting screws for instruments, etc.), and a fair number of threads on the body; like Tenax studs, door lock mount plates, and the machine screws that secure the soft top straps to the body. Even the factory jack takes a Whitworth wrench ! Surely you noticed that a standard wrench doesn't fit the damper covers on the SU carbs; but a Whitworth wrench fits perfectly. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Jul 8 19:04:53 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:04:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <20070709010453.EVOD6084.mta10.adelphia.net@randall> > I am just thinking somebody here has a clever solution for > increasing the diameter of an undersized hole in a thick > piece of steel in a very visible location. Thanks in advance... Doug, I would just clamp a chunck of wood over the hole, scrap 1x6 or plywood, whatever is handy, and cut through it with a metal-cutting hole saw. The wood in the center will provide the pilot while cutting a 1" hole through the wood, and then the 1" hole in the wood will guide the saw into the metal. I've actually done very nearly the same thing, except it was a flat plate closer to 3/8" thick and I was able to get it in the drill press. Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Jul 9 09:28:34 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 08:28:34 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <20070708095207.AAC639D794@relay.vnet.co.uk> Message-ID: <20070709152833.PBCL12750.mta9.adelphia.net@randall> > >It's my understanding that BS 1083:1965 says BSW and BSF > bolts and nuts > >of the same diameter have the same size hex. I don't have a copy of > >the standard, though, and I'm relying on Industrial Press to > get things > >right. There's a table of sizes on page 1572 of the 27th edition. > > BS 1083:1951 and 916:1953 gives BSW and BSF bolts as > identical in dimensions except for TPI. Source Kemp's > Engineers Year Book 1962. Thank you, David and Nick. That clears up a long-held misunderstanding on my part. > Noticing the date makes me think it would be worthwhile > moving into the 21st century. Anyone have any thoughts about > book versus cd versions of Machinery's Handbook? Ideally, I'd like one of each. But if chosing only one, I'd go for the print version; unless you've got a hardened PC in your shop. Takes too long to wash up and go in the house to check something on the computer (and I'm a computer geek !) Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 09:49:08 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:49:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Metric Hardware In-Reply-To: <20070709152833.PBCL12750.mta9.adelphia.net@randall> References: <20070708095207.AAC639D794@relay.vnet.co.uk> <20070709152833.PBCL12750.mta9.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707090849h59259a73u201ca3170ec90dc0@mail.gmail.com> On 7/9/07, Randall wrote: > > >It's my understanding that BS 1083:1965 says BSW and BSF > > bolts and nuts > > >of the same diameter have the same size hex. I don't have a copy of > > >the standard, though, and I'm relying on Industrial Press to > > get things > > >right. There's a table of sizes on page 1572 of the 27th edition. > > > > BS 1083:1951 and 916:1953 gives BSW and BSF bolts as > > identical in dimensions except for TPI. Source Kemp's > > Engineers Year Book 1962. > > Thank you, David and Nick. That clears up a long-held misunderstanding on > my part. > It's also possible that there were people making coarse-threaded bolts with the larger heads even after the standards changed. There was a market -- maintenance of all those old machines, steam engines, locomotives and what have you with the old bolts, and probably some new production of existing designs. Given the proclivity of British industry to use the part that was at hand, even if it wasn't the right one, it wouldn't surprise me to find big-headed bolts on a LBC. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Mon Jul 9 11:53:17 2007 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 13:53:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ez-up replacement top Message-ID: I have a 10' x 10' tent, needs a new top, so I'm assuming I'd find a market for them rather cheaply, especially since the 10x10 size is pretty common. But instead I'm find prices for replacement tops over $200, while at the same time I see the *whole tent* for $70-100 in various discount flyers, Walmart, etc. Has anyone else experienced this? Ebay hasn't been any help. PJ _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlmailtextlink From nick at landform.co.uk Mon Jul 9 12:39:26 2007 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 19:39:26 +0100 Subject: [Shop-talk] Machinery's Handbook? (was Metric Hardware); CD vs print In-Reply-To: <070820071606.22575.46910B7200098BF10000582F22028887449D0A0 7089B0A9F@comcast.net> References: <070820071606.22575.46910B7200098BF10000582F22028887449D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20070709184053.292B61C8F88@relay.vnet.co.uk> Thanks to all for the replies on the above. I was leaning towards the paper version for the "browse factor". Your advice has definitely confirmed that idea. Whether I'll still be able to use it in 50 yrs time is another matter... Nick Brearley From kvacek at ameritech.net Mon Jul 9 13:25:00 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:25:00 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org><743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com> <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED09D@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Message-ID: <011101c7c25e$d8bfeec0$6e01a8c0@KARL> OK - nobody jumped on this one yet... Why do you have GFCI's in your hose ?? > I have three GFCIs in my hose right now. > Tim Mullen From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Mon Jul 9 13:32:32 2007 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:32:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <011101c7c25e$d8bfeec0$6e01a8c0@KARL> References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org><743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com> <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED09D@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> <011101c7c25e$d8bfeec0$6e01a8c0@KARL> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C797224D9D@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Karl Vacek [mailto:kvacek at ameritech.net] wrote: > > OK - nobody jumped on this one yet... > > Why do you have GFCI's in your hose ?? > >> I have three GFCIs in my hose right now. >> Tim Mullen Damn spell checker... :) I replaced one of the GFCIs Sunday. It was the one outside the house in a sealed water proof box with a cover that closes down over it to keep water out. Bottom line, is that there was absolutely no signs of water damage to the outlet. After I replaced it, I figured, "What the heck? What's inside it?". So... I unscrewed the screws and proceeded to take it apart to see what was inside (destroying it in the process). What I found was the underside of a printed circuit board and some contacts. Farther dismantling, showed that the components on the top side were pretty much "gone" - everything was black and crumbly. Something had caused some nice arcing inside that outlet (and it wasn't water). The outlet still flowed electricity, it just didn't interrupt. Not exactly a good feeling. I'm going to be plugging in my tester and pressing the button a bit more frequently from now on... Tim Mullen From cornerexit at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 13:38:54 2007 From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:38:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Ez-up replacement top In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00ec01c7c260$c97a8f90$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Yes, I've experienced exactly this situation as well. I have a number of the ez-up's ranging in size from 8x8 to 12x20 or so, and find it is less expensive to buy a new one then purchase a new top. This seems to be the trend with a number of products these days. (As well as products that have no user serviceable or repairable components... but that is another rant) I've also recently been thinking about purchasing a heavy duty sewing machine, as I keep running into situations where I'd need to make custom covers for equipment/toys and such out of heavy duty vinyl or the like. Sure would be nice to just purchase a hunk of the fabric, sew up a cover, put some grommets in it and call it good. Every time I ask for a quote for a custom cover for something it is always way high. Wayne -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PJ McGarvey Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:53 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Ez-up replacement top I have a 10' x 10' tent, needs a new top, so I'm assuming I'd find a market for them rather cheaply, especially since the 10x10 size is pretty common. But instead I'm find prices for replacement tops over $200, From jniolon at bham.rr.com Mon Jul 9 14:17:01 2007 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (jniolon at bham.rr.com) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:17:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] pop up canopy Message-ID: pj there is a definate difference in the Walmart/Big Lots unit and a good commercial pop-up canopy... try these folks for a quote... Northern Tools sells their project http://www.shelterlogic.com/pop-ups/straight-leg/ John From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Mon Jul 9 15:16:17 2007 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <607998.81638.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks guys, This group is brilliant...saved me a ton of work over the years and has increased my knowledge base tremendously. Thanks again for the help here and on all the other bone headed issues I have raised. best, doug old dirtbeard wrote: Hey guys, Well the subject line sort of tells it all. I was following instructions for installing a fire department emergency open switch for our electric driveway gate (I got cited and was given until next week to install it). The instructions said drill/bore 3/4" hole for mounting the switch, which I did in a 6" by 6", 1/4" thick steel square gate post. Well it is big enough for the switch, but not the nut that holds it in (they were assuming access to the back of he plate, but this is a blind location). I have a face plate that will hold it to the post. Anyway, I have a 3/4" hole where it really needs to be about 1" (it is has a very thick 7/8" across the flats nut). I need a different way to attach the 3/4" cylinder switch to the stainless steel face plate or a way to open up the hole about 1/4". I could look for a very thin nut, but that will take some time. I probably could epoxy the switch to the plate and forgo the nut (this may be my best/easiest solution). I don't think I can hole saw it again as I would not have a pilot. I can try grinding it out, but that will take some time with that thick steel. I can get a blade for the Roto Zip, or the jig saw or the Sawzall. I could take the air hammer to it. Of course I can go out there with the torch and cut it open, but then I would have to repaint the post, and probably the gate and the other post so it would match. I am just thinking somebody here has a clever solution for increasing the diameter of an undersized hole in a thick piece of steel in a very visible location. Thanks in advance... best, doug '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 Harley XLH883 '03 GMC Cargo Van _______________________________________________ dirtbeard at pacbell.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk best, shook ____________________ '72 BSA B50SS '74 Triumph TR6 '01 HD XHL 883 '03 GMC Cargo Van From frerichs at tconl.com Mon Jul 9 15:46:35 2007 From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:46:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping In-Reply-To: <011101c7c25e$d8bfeec0$6e01a8c0@KARL> References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org><743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com><9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED09D@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> <011101c7c25e$d8bfeec0$6e01a8c0@KARL> Message-ID: <003a01c7c272$a34d2230$6501a8c0@proteus457> Obviously, it's a wet location so you can't put regular outlets there. > -----Original Message----- > > OK - nobody jumped on this one yet... > > Why do you have GFCI's in your hose ?? > > > > I have three GFCIs in my hose right now. > > Tim Mullen From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 9 18:05:46 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:05:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <607998.81638.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> <607998.81638.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0JKX00CUVSCAHMK0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> So, tell us what you did! Details, man. We need details! At 05:16 PM 7/9/2007, old dirtbeard wrote: >Thanks guys, > > This group is brilliant...saved me a ton of work over the years > and has increased my knowledge base tremendously. Thanks again for > the help here and on all the other bone headed issues I have raised. > > best, > > doug > >old dirtbeard wrote: From jblair1948 at cox.net Mon Jul 9 18:55:30 2007 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:55:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <607998.81638.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070709205530.00ab1850@pop.east.cox.net> At 02:16 PM 7/9/2007 -0700, old dirtbeard wrote: >Well the subject line sort of tells it all..... >I don't think I can hole saw it again as I would not have a pilot. >I am just thinking somebody here has a clever solution for increasing the >diameter of an undersized hole in a thick piece of steel in a very visible >location. Thanks in advance... Doug, Why not take the saw you used to cut the original hole, and cut a piece of wood? This would give you a plug to insert into the hole, and a pilot hole. Then you could go in with a slightly bigger hole saw and cut a larger hole. John > >'72 BSA B50SS >'74 Triumph TR6 >'01 Harley XLH883 >'03 GMC Cargo Van >_______________________________________________ >dirtbeard at pacbell.net > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > > >best, > >shook >____________________ >'72 BSA B50SS >'74 Triumph TR6 >'01 HD XHL 883 >'03 GMC Cargo Van >_______________________________________________ >jblair1948 at cox.net > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 9 18:57:58 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:57:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070709205530.00ab1850@pop.east.cox.net> References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> <3.0.5.32.20070709205530.00ab1850@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <0JKX00EB3UQX3X21@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> When you figure in the thickness of the saw blade, the plug will be too small. It will drop right into the hole. >Why not take the saw you used to cut the original hole, and cut a piece of >wood? This would give you a plug to insert into the hole, and a pilot >hole. Then you could go in with a slightly bigger hole saw and cut a >larger hole. From jblair1948 at cox.net Mon Jul 9 19:10:48 2007 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:10:48 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <0JKX00EB3UQX3X21@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20070709205530.00ab1850@pop.east.cox.net> <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> <3.0.5.32.20070709205530.00ab1850@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070709211048.00ab1850@pop.east.cox.net> At 08:57 PM 7/9/2007 -0400, Steven Trovato wrote: >When you figure in the thickness of the saw blade, the plug will be >too small. It will drop right into the hole. That can be fixed with a piece of flashing or some type of ears. But you could stick it on the end of the larger hole saw and slide it into the hole for support and a guide. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From kvacek at ameritech.net Mon Jul 9 19:27:30 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:27:30 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] GFCI tripping References: <042501c7bd18$38aac950$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer><4518.67.190.27.64.1183647012.squirrel@webmail.groupwbench.org><743b1e2f0707051357l36f1c401uc14bb075383ac95f@mail.gmail.com><9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7971ED09D@XMBIL103.northgrum.com><011101c7c25e$d8bfeec0$6e01a8c0@KARL> <003a01c7c272$a34d2230$6501a8c0@proteus457> Message-ID: <006b01c7c291$7cc76fc0$6e01a8c0@KARL> Still sounds painful ... > Obviously, it's a wet location so you can't put regular outlets there. > >> -----Original Message----- >> >> OK - nobody jumped on this one yet... >> >> Why do you have GFCI's in your hose ?? >> >> >> > I have three GFCIs in my hose right now. >> > Tim Mullen From strovato at optonline.net Thu Jul 12 08:48:29 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:48:29 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized In-Reply-To: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> Message-ID: <0JL2008FEMH67IJ0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> So, I just got a catalog from McFeely's. This is a company I remember as having every square drive screw known to mankind, and not all that much else. Well, now their catalog is 100 pages and they still have every square drive screw, plus a lot of other stuff! So now, if you're wondering why I'm telling you all this on this thread, I will get to the relevant point. On page 61, I found the Starrett "OOPS" Arbor for hole saws. This arbor holds two saws at the same time, using the smaller, inner one as the pilot. This is intended for exactly the problem old dirtbeard was having. And yes, this can be yours for only $7.95. Cool. http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/HS-0019/OOPS-Arbor -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From mbarre at juno.com Thu Jul 12 09:18:32 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:18:32 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor Message-ID: <20070712.081927.29664.144093@webmail34.lax.untd.com> I received an email the other day with photo documentation of some fellow in Utah that "modified" a Chevy Blazer to pull a big fifth wheel camper. He laid the tail gate down and screwed some rails across it then fit a gooseneck adapter. Realizing that the gate was a little flimsy, he "reinforced" it with some cheap chain screwed to the pillar and connected by light weigh "S" hooks! Still thinking maybe it needed a little something more, he whittled down a 4"x4" so it fit in the ball mount from his trailer hitch and supported the tailgate from underneath... All in all, pretty scary. If I sent it to the list it would just strip the pix. Anyone want to post it on their web page? Matt From pethier at comcast.net Thu Jul 12 12:16:43 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:16:43 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor Message-ID: <071220071816.12835.4696700B0003617F0000322322070210539D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> flickr.com is free. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, 1994 Miata C package pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Matt" > I received an email the other day with photo documentation of some fellow in > Utah that "modified" a Chevy Blazer to pull a big fifth wheel camper. He laid > the tail gate down and screwed some rails across it then fit a gooseneck > adapter. Realizing that the gate was a little flimsy, he "reinforced" it with > some cheap chain screwed to the pillar and connected by light weigh "S" hooks! > Still thinking maybe it needed a little something more, he whittled down a > 4"x4" so it fit in the ball mount from his trailer hitch and supported the > tailgate from underneath... > All in all, pretty scary. > If I sent it to the list it would just strip the pix. Anyone want to post it > on their web page? > Matt > _______________________________________________ > pethier at comcast.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Thu Jul 12 12:30:32 2007 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:30:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor Message-ID: Send it to me, I'll put it on my Google Picasa web album and send you all a direct link. PJ > From: pethier at comcast.net> To: mbarre at juno.com; shop-talk at autox.team.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:16:43 +0000> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor> > flickr.com is free.> > --> Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA> 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban,> 1994 Miata C package> pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier> I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language.> > -------------- Original message ----------------------> From: "Matt" > > I received an email the other day with photo documentation of some fellow in> > Utah that "modified" a Chevy Blazer to pull a big fifth wheel camper. He laid> > the tail gate down and screwed some rails across it then fit a gooseneck> > adapter. Realizing that the gate was a little flimsy, he "reinforced" it with> > some cheap chain screwed to the pillar and connected by light weigh "S" hooks!> > Still thinking maybe it needed a little something more, he whittled down a> > 4"x4" so it fit in the ball mount from his trailer hitch and supported the> > tailgate from underneath...> > All in all, pretty scary.> > If I sent it to the list it would just strip the pix. Anyone want to post it> > on their web page?> > Matt _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! Find it! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01 From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Thu Jul 12 14:18:29 2007 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:29 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor Message-ID: For the group's enjoyment: http://picasaweb.google.com/pjmcgarvey/JohnPresleySNewCampingRig > From: mbarre at juno.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:18:32 +0000> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net> Subject: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor> > I received an email the other day with photo documentation of some fellow in> Utah that "modified" a Chevy Blazer to pull a big fifth wheel camper. He laid> the tail gate down and screwed some rails across it then fit a gooseneck> adapter. Realizing that the gate was a little flimsy, he "reinforced" it with> some cheap chain screwed to the pillar and connected by light weigh "S" hooks!> Still thinking maybe it needed a little something more, he whittled down a> 4"x4" so it fit in the ball mount from his trailer hitch and supported the> tailgate from underneath...> All in all, pretty scary.> If I sent it to the list it would just strip the pix. Anyone want to post it> on their web page?> Matt _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there. http://newlivehotmail.com From BSHolden at aol.com Thu Jul 12 14:35:32 2007 From: BSHolden at aol.com (BSHolden at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:35:32 EDT Subject: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor Message-ID: Shoulda used treated lumber in the interest of longevity. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 7/12/2007 3:21:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com writes: http://picasaweb.google.com/pjmcgarvey/JohnPresleySNewCampingRig ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From frerichs at tconl.com Thu Jul 12 14:53:09 2007 From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:53:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <010c01c7c4c6$aa1b6800$6501a8c0@proteus457> Man, I hope that's just for moving the trailer around on the owner's property! Talk about an accident waiting to happen! Mike Frerichs > -----Original Message----- > For the group's enjoyment: > > http://picasaweb.google.com/pjmcgarvey/JohnPresleySNewCampingRig From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Thu Jul 12 21:45:13 2007 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:45:13 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized References: <009301c7c1b0$60d25370$5b347d80@XLH883> <0JL2008FEMH67IJ0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <002601c7c500$38f15380$0602a8c0@XLH883> Hi Steve, I had written up a long message about how I did a temporary "fix" by just making a shoulder out of duct tape (an interference fit) to hold the key cylinder in place behind the thick stainless steel face plate (this fix probably is OK for 5 years), and that I planned to drill a piece of ply wood for the pilot in my drill press and then use the larger hole saw as many of you suggested (the fire department was coming the next day to test it, so I had to do something fast and it worked). However, I just saw this Starrett arbor you posted (and I hold Starrett in the absolute highest regard), and think this is what I have been looking for, but did not know it existed. Not that I am a dummy (well, I did drill the wrong size hole), but I may do this again, and it also could be great for renovation (opening up a 3/4" hole to a 1 1/2" hole on a plumbing upgrade, etc.), and to top it off, it is a Starrett and not cheap POS. I definitely am going to order this -- at $7.95, it has to be a no brainer. Thank you Steve. This is one reason why this is such a great list -- no stupid questions, great responses, no attitudes, just a bunch of guys just doing the same stuff and sharing what they know or have learned. About a year ago I needed to remove a chain link fence in my backyard and I also wanted a firewood rack. I started building the rack out of the top rail pipe from the chain link fence, but could not figure out how to fabricate the elbows for the horizontal pipes to the verticals (too thin to thread, etc.). I went to HD, no solution and someone from this list suggested 90 degree aluminum elbows for fences (HD did not have them, I did not know they existed, etc.), but on a web search I found them and for $20 I built a 9 ft. long, by 4 ft. high by 30" deep, three pipe log rack. It is a very nice log rack. This was a year ago, and I have had a half dozen offers to buy the rack thinking it was some commercial product. Thanks to this list again. This group just fills a very special void without all the drama and BS that you get from the other groups. I think I have been on this list for ten years or more, I just cannot recall, could be longer. Thanks guys for all the knowledge and information you so readily share. best, doug (destined to drill too small a hole again) :) Thanks boys, I appreciate this list. best, doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Trovato" To: "old dirtbeard" ; Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] hole sawed 1/4" thick steel post undersized > So, I just got a catalog from McFeely's. This is a company I remember as > having every square drive screw known to mankind, and not all that much > else. Well, now their catalog is 100 pages and they still have every > square drive screw, plus a lot of other stuff! So now, if you're > wondering why I'm telling you all this on this thread, I will get to the > relevant point. On page 61, I found the Starrett "OOPS" Arbor for hole > saws. This arbor holds two saws at the same time, using the smaller, > inner one as the pilot. This is intended for exactly the problem old > dirtbeard was having. And yes, this can be yours for only $7.95. Cool. > > http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/HS-0019/OOPS-Arbor > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net From mikey at b2systems.com Thu Jul 12 23:28:16 2007 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:28:16 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile In-Reply-To: <079001c7bf3c$54020530$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> References: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> <079001c7bf3c$54020530$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070712222517.04c22678@b2systems.com> Some miscellaneous junk here so ignore the pics you don't want to see... http://singer.rambour.com/stuff/ Has pics of my garage tiled floor along with my 2 lifts and cars...and lots of other junk. The Silver Dino is sitting on a scissor lift on that pic, you can see the scissor lift a few pics below with my 34 Singer on it. mike At 12:40 PM 7/5/2007, cornerexit wrote: >I too would be interested in peoples experience with these tiles. Any >pictures of an actual working shop with these tiles would good as well. > >I just don't see how they could be functional in a working shop, but I'm >sure there are things I am missing here. > >In my shop I do a lot of work on the race car while it is on the two post >lift. This means there are all manner of spilled fluids, hot parts that are >cut off the car that land on the concrete, sparks from the welder that land >on the concrete etc. I just don't see how tiles can stand up to that kind of >thing? I also use a number of rolling tools/equipment while under the car on >the lift - trans jack, oil drain, welder, torch, differential stands etc and >I wonder how these things will roll around on top of the tiles? > >In addition most every piece of equipment and storage cabinets in my shop is >on wheels so I can reconfigure the shop based on the current project. >I wonder how well rolling stock moves on these tiles. And I wonder how well >it would work if only part of the shop floor were tiled? How would I get the >rolling stock up the threshold onto the tiles or vice versa? My steel stock >rack on wheels and my ammo cabinets are pretty darn heavy to push around as >it is on the mostly smooth shop floor. > >The other corner of the shop has the metal fab equipment - welder, welding >table, drill press, lathe, mill, grinders, bandsaw etc. In this area you >have sparks, metal chunks, oil, chips etc falling on the floor. I wonder how >easy that would be to clean up? > >On the other hand I just installed a power rack, 300lb. Olympic weight set, >FID bench, and lat pulldown station in a corner of my shop and some sort of >tile or mat under that equipment might make working out a little nicer. > >Wayne >_______________________________________________ >mikey at b2systems.com > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Rambour Bug Writer err...Programmer mikey at b2systems.com ********************************************************************** If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car, then take a look at http://www.singercars.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From mark at bradakis.com Fri Jul 13 02:49:33 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:49:33 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] home-made fifth wheel conversion - humor In-Reply-To: <20070712.081927.29664.144093@webmail34.lax.untd.com> References: <20070712.081927.29664.144093@webmail34.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <46973C9D.4040204@bradakis.com> >If I sent it to the list it would just strip the pix. Anyone want to post it >on their web page? > > http://www.team.net/the-local has freely available image galleries. mjb. From clmautz at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 08:56:03 2007 From: clmautz at gmail.com (Chip Mautz) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:56:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070712222517.04c22678@b2systems.com> References: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> <079001c7bf3c$54020530$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <7.0.1.0.2.20070712222517.04c22678@b2systems.com> Message-ID: <5f44dd4f0707130756p76a8d875ud47f7ce00ff2cfeb@mail.gmail.com> Who did you buy those tiles from? I was about to paint and flake, but may rethink that project... If it's cost effective, I may go that route - no cold floor in the winter, hot tires lifting epoxy, etc. I need to do the garage build out before beginning my '65 AH Sprite resto/refurb... Chip On 7/13/07, Mike Rambour wrote: > Some miscellaneous junk here so ignore the pics you don't want to see... > > http://singer.rambour.com/stuff/ > > Has pics of my garage tiled floor along with my 2 lifts and > cars...and lots of other junk. The Silver Dino is sitting on a > scissor lift on that pic, you can see the scissor lift a few pics > below with my 34 Singer on it. > > mike > > At 12:40 PM 7/5/2007, cornerexit wrote: > >I too would be interested in peoples experience with these tiles. Any > >pictures of an actual working shop with these tiles would good as well. > > > >I just don't see how they could be functional in a working shop, but I'm > >sure there are things I am missing here. > > > >In my shop I do a lot of work on the race car while it is on the two post > >lift. This means there are all manner of spilled fluids, hot parts that are > >cut off the car that land on the concrete, sparks from the welder that land > >on the concrete etc. I just don't see how tiles can stand up to that kind of > >thing? I also use a number of rolling tools/equipment while under the car on > >the lift - trans jack, oil drain, welder, torch, differential stands etc and > >I wonder how these things will roll around on top of the tiles? > > > >In addition most every piece of equipment and storage cabinets in my shop is > >on wheels so I can reconfigure the shop based on the current project. > >I wonder how well rolling stock moves on these tiles. And I wonder how well > >it would work if only part of the shop floor were tiled? How would I get the > >rolling stock up the threshold onto the tiles or vice versa? My steel stock > >rack on wheels and my ammo cabinets are pretty darn heavy to push around as > >it is on the mostly smooth shop floor. > > > >The other corner of the shop has the metal fab equipment - welder, welding > >table, drill press, lathe, mill, grinders, bandsaw etc. In this area you > >have sparks, metal chunks, oil, chips etc falling on the floor. I wonder how > >easy that would be to clean up? > > > >On the other hand I just installed a power rack, 300lb. Olympic weight set, > >FID bench, and lat pulldown station in a corner of my shop and some sort of > >tile or mat under that equipment might make working out a little nicer. > > > >Wayne > >_______________________________________________ > >mikey at b2systems.com > > > >Shop-talk mailing list > > > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Mike Rambour > Bug Writer err...Programmer > mikey at b2systems.com > ********************************************************************** > If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car, > then take a look at http://www.singercars.com/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________ > clmautz at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > -- "Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier."  Colin Powell From mikey at b2systems.com Fri Jul 13 23:29:58 2007 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:29:58 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage tile In-Reply-To: <5f44dd4f0707130756p76a8d875ud47f7ce00ff2cfeb@mail.gmail.co m> References: <001501c7be58$4d233160$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> <079001c7bf3c$54020530$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> <7.0.1.0.2.20070712222517.04c22678@b2systems.com> <5f44dd4f0707130756p76a8d875ud47f7ce00ff2cfeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070713222822.050fb7e8@b2systems.com> At 07:56 AM 7/13/2007, Chip Mautz wrote: >Who did you buy those tiles from? I was about to paint and flake, but >may rethink that project... If it's cost effective, I may go that They are Racedeck tiles but I bought them many years ago, they were not cheap then but now they are down right expensive. Having owned them for many years, I probably would buy them again even at todays prices but if I had not had them before I am not sure I would buy at todays prices. mike ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Rambour Bug Writer err...Programmer mikey at b2systems.com ********************************************************************** If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car, then take a look at http://www.singercars.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From scott.hall at comcast.net Sat Jul 14 16:03:01 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:03:01 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] 'tri-'screwdriver? Message-ID: <071420072203.17025.469948150005323500004281220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> my kid broke his nintendo ds screen. I got a new screen, and all the websites reference buying a special screwdriver. screw (ahem) that, I've got a full compliment. well, this is a 'tri'-headed driver. like a phillips, but instead of a four-pointed 'plus' sign, it's got three prongs, arrayed like a mercedes symbol. anybody know what this thing is called, or where (like mcmaster) I can buy one, besides the nintendo folks? I don't even know what to type into a search engine. thanks. scott From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sat Jul 14 16:54:25 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:54:25 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] 'tri-'screwdriver? In-Reply-To: <071420072203.17025.469948150005323500004281220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20070714225424.MBD19079.mta11.adelphia.net@randall> > like a phillips, but instead of a > four-pointed 'plus' sign, it's got three prongs, arrayed like > a mercedes symbol. Not sure if it's the same thing or not, but MMC sells a "tri-wing" driver that looks about right. http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagenum=2759 This also sounds like it's worth a try : http://www.ps2fliptop.net/how_to_make_your_own_gamebit_scr.htm Randall From gsteve at hammatt.com Sat Jul 14 17:05:07 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:05:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] 'tri-'screwdriver? References: <071420072203.17025.469948150005323500004281220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004801c7c66b$6c167580$0202a8c0@your52698ciuyt> Tri-Wing Driver at McMaster-Carr I've sent you the whole page, direct via email. Good luck Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Shop-Talk List" Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] 'tri-'screwdriver? | my kid broke his nintendo ds screen. I got a new screen, and all the websites reference buying a special screwdriver. screw (ahem) that, I've got a full compliment. well, this is a 'tri'-headed driver. like a phillips, but instead of a four-pointed 'plus' sign, it's got three prongs, arrayed like a mercedes symbol. anybody know what this thing is called, or where (like mcmaster) I can buy one, besides the nintendo folks? I don't even know what to type into a search engine. | | thanks. | | scott | _______________________________________________ | gsteve at hammatt.com | | Shop-talk mailing list | | http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk | | | | -- | No virus found in this incoming message. | Checked by AVG Free Edition. | Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.5/899 - Release Date: 7/13/2007 3:41 PM | | From miq at bigllama.com Sat Jul 14 18:30:45 2007 From: miq at bigllama.com (Miq Millman) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] 'tri-'screwdriver? In-Reply-To: <071420072203.17025.469948150005323500004281220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: This is what you really want: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-Tools-33Pc-Security-Bit/dp/B000LFW6PQ The set includes the following; 1 x 60mm magnetic bit holder 3 x torq bits size: 6, 8 and 10mm 4 x spanner bits size: 4, 6, 8 and 10mm 4 x tri-wing bits size: 1, 2, 3 and 4 6 x hexagonal security bits size: 2, 2.5, 3, 4, 5 and 6mm 6 x hexagonal security bits size: 5/64, 3/32, 7/64, 1/8, 9/64, and 5/32" 9 x TorX-STAR security bits: T8, T10, T15, T20, T25, T27, T30, T35 and T40 __ Miq Millman miq at bigllama.com Tualatin, OR Big Llama Productions From doug at dougbraun.com Sat Jul 14 20:15:52 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] 'tri-'screwdriver? In-Reply-To: <071420072203.17025.469948150005323500004281220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <407330.27460.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Going to Ebay and searching for "Nintendo screwdriver" gives lots of listings. I once got a set of "special" bit drivers that had some tri-headed drivers, but I am sure they were too large for something like a Ninitendo. Doug --- scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > my kid broke his nintendo ds screen. I got a new > screen, and all the websites reference buying a > special screwdriver. screw (ahem) that, I've got a > full compliment. well, this is a 'tri'-headed > driver. like a phillips, but instead of a > four-pointed 'plus' sign, it's got three prongs, > arrayed like a mercedes symbol. anybody know what > this thing is called, or where (like mcmaster) I can > buy one, besides the nintendo folks? I don't even > know what to type into a search engine. > > thanks. > > scott > _______________________________________________ > doug at dougbraun.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From kvacek at ameritech.net Sat Jul 14 20:36:56 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:36:56 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] 'tri-'screwdriver? References: <071420072203.17025.469948150005323500004281220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001601c7c689$0425bdf0$6e01a8c0@KARL> The ever-popular Horrible Freight has a set of 100 bits including 4 tri-wing drivers for $5.99 - but nowhere is there a picture to tell if what *they* call tri-wing is the 3-blade Phillips type of the 3-separate-segment type of bit. Karl > my kid broke his nintendo ds screen. I got a new screen, and all the > websites reference buying a special screwdriver. screw (ahem) that, I've > got a full compliment. well, this is a 'tri'-headed driver. like a > phillips, but instead of a four-pointed 'plus' sign, it's got three > prongs, arrayed like a mercedes symbol. anybody know what this thing is > called, or where (like mcmaster) I can buy one, besides the nintendo > folks? I don't even know what to type into a search engine. > > thanks. > > scott \ From bk13 at earthlink.net Sat Jul 14 21:45:07 2007 From: bk13 at earthlink.net (Brian Kemp) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:45:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] 'tri-'screwdriver? In-Reply-To: <001601c7c689$0425bdf0$6e01a8c0@KARL> References: <071420072203.17025.469948150005323500004281220702157304040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> <001601c7c689$0425bdf0$6e01a8c0@KARL> Message-ID: <46999843.50208@earthlink.net> I picked up a set of 32 "security" bits, part number 93388, from my local Harbor Freight for $4.99 on sale. The 3 blade Phillips are marked "CR-V 1" through 4. Their website calls them Tri wing bits: #1, #2, #3, #4. Brian >> my kid broke his nintendo ds screen. I got a new screen, and all the >> websites reference buying a special screwdriver. screw (ahem) that, I've >> got a full compliment. well, this is a 'tri'-headed driver. like a >> phillips, but instead of a four-pointed 'plus' sign, it's got three >> prongs, arrayed like a mercedes symbol. anybody know what this thing is >> called, or where (like mcmaster) I can buy one, besides the nintendo >> folks? I don't even know what to type into a search engine. >> >> thanks. >> >> scott From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 16 23:15:49 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? Message-ID: <226500.54739.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I have a 24x24' garage with sheet-rocked walls and a high 12-foot sheet-rocked ceiling. The garage doors are only 6'6" high, so the upper half of the garage interior is a completely unventilated space. Above the ceiling is a fairly high attic space. There is no insulation at all. The garage is attached to the house, but the garage's attic is separate from the house attic (the wall between them is insulated). The garage gets stiflingly hot in the summer, and I would love to install some sort of ventilation fan. Would it be legal to install a exhaust fan in the garage ceiling that ventilated into the attic? Or would this be against code and/or a carbon monoxide hazard? Or could I possibly put an exhaust fan near the top of one side wall, to exhaust directly outdoors? (I probably should also put insulation in the ceiling and improve the mediocre ventilation in the attic space.) Thanks, Doug From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Jul 17 12:44:42 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:44:42 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? In-Reply-To: <226500.54739.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <226500.54739.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161c01c7c8a2$8a0bba30$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > Would it be legal to install a exhaust fan in the > garage ceiling that ventilated into the attic? I don't see why not ... but why not put the exhaust fan between the attic and outdoors ? My garage 'attic' is open to the garage (I store car parts up there), so that's what I do. For the moment, I have the exhaust fan's thermostat set fairly low, but powered from the light switch for the garage so it only runs when I'm out there (and the weather is warm). Ideally (someday), I'd like to add a second thermostat that would run it any time the attic got over 100F or so, to reduce heat gain to the house through the (mostly uninsulated) wall between them. Insulating the west wall (which in my case is mostly the door) made a big difference too. Randall CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Tue Jul 17 12:56:05 2007 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:56:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? In-Reply-To: <161c01c7c8a2$8a0bba30$6a5636cc@navcom.com> Message-ID: <00d901c7c8a4$247e09a0$6581a8c0@DADSTOY> One of the best things I ever did in the home improvement mode was to install a "whole house attic fan". It took quite a bit of work, because you have to have a large louvered (spring loaded) exit in a gable to exhaust the large volume of air it can move. On high, ours will nearly suck the wallpaper off of the walls. If you come home to a hot house, just open a window in each room and turn the thing on high (don't leave any papers around) and run it for 5 or 10 minutes. Turn it off, shut the windows and turn the AC on....it gets rid of the hot air in both house and attic. With something like this in your shop you could even do a little touch up painting and get rid of the fumes....however, don't do any big painting projects without installing some sort of filter to protect the motor because this type of motor isn't intended for that. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Randall Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 2:45 PM To: 'Shop-Talk List' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? > Would it be legal to install a exhaust fan in the > garage ceiling that ventilated into the attic? I don't see why not ... but why not put the exhaust fan between the attic and outdoors ? My garage 'attic' is open to the garage (I store car parts up there), so that's what I do. For the moment, I have the exhaust fan's thermostat set fairly low, but powered from the light switch for the garage so it only runs when I'm out there (and the weather is warm). Ideally (someday), I'd like to add a second thermostat that would run it any time the attic got over 100F or so, to reduce heat gain to the house through the (mostly uninsulated) wall between them. Insulating the west wall (which in my case is mostly the door) made a big difference too. Randall From eric at megageek.com Tue Jul 17 13:04:40 2007 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:04:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? Message-ID: > Would it be legal to install a exhaust fan in the > garage ceiling that ventilated into the attic? Why would you want to do this? You would be blowing all the flumes, smoke, and whatnot into your house. Exhaust it outside. BTW, I'm pretty sure this would be against all code as it would break the "fire wall" between the residental house and garage area. Moose "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." Tori Amos From cak at dimebank.com Tue Jul 17 13:05:35 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? Message-ID: <200707171905.l6HJ5ZDV012907@moose.dimebank.com> > One of the best things I ever did in the home improvement mode was to > install a "whole house attic fan". Violent agreement over here. Except that we didn't put in such a violent fan :-) There are a lot of designs on the market. Most of them are designed to move a lot of air to vent very large houses. We have a 1400 sq ft house, so pretty much everything out there is overkill. We ended up going with this: http://www.wholehousefan.com/hv-1000.html We have it on a spring timer, and play games with windows and doors to cool various parts of the house. It works great. We didn't have to add any extra attic venting to accomodate it, though I'm planning to put a small vent in the roof over the kitchen, which was added and has no in its "skin". It's designed to be easy to install on either 16" or 24" OC joists. Unfortunately, our old ceiling joists are 12" OC, and the "right place" for installation was exactly the raceway for the remaining knob&tube wiring :-) Put one of these in your garage ceiling, and add a gable vent in the attic if you need one. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Jul 17 13:10:08 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:10:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? In-Reply-To: <00d901c7c8a4$247e09a0$6581a8c0@DADSTOY> References: <00d901c7c8a4$247e09a0$6581a8c0@DADSTOY> Message-ID: <469D1410.8070602@xxiii.com> Gerald Brazil wrote: > installed a "whole house attic fan". > ... On high, ours will nearly suck the wallpaper off of the walls. Be careful. That can be a Bad Thing. I read a story of someone in a newly built home who called back the plumbing contractor, claiming there were "flames shooting out of the gas water heater." The plumber found soot and scorch marks on the heater and surrounding materials, but it appeared to be operating normally. He asked if the house had a vent fan -- "yup, it does" -- and asked the owner to turn it on. Sure enough -- flames shooting out the water heater. The house was so air tight, the fan was pulling outside air down the flue and out the combustion chamber. Scary. -Wayne From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Jul 17 14:31:35 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? In-Reply-To: <00d901c7c8a4$247e09a0$6581a8c0@DADSTOY> Message-ID: <178740.48779.qm@web611.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We have a nice big whole-house fan for the actual house. I love it. It's running right now. One thing I would like to do is figure out a good way to seal it off during the winter, to reduce heat loss through the closed metal lovers. Maybe I make a box-like thing out of styrofoam panels that I can place over the fan. But the garage situation is different. Building codes mandate a continuous barrier of fire-resistant drywall between the garage and living spaces, and if I penetrated the garage ceiling, I would probably have to add some more drywall in the garage attic where part of it abuts the master bedroom. Doug --- Gerald Brazil wrote: > One of the best things I ever did in the home > improvement mode was to > install a "whole house attic fan". It took quite a > bit of work, because you > have to have a large louvered (spring loaded) exit > in a gable to exhaust the > large volume of air it can move. On high, ours will > nearly suck the > wallpaper off of the walls. > > If you come home to a hot house, just open a window > in each room and turn > the thing on high (don't leave any papers around) > and run it for 5 or 10 > minutes. Turn it off, shut the windows and turn the > AC on....it gets rid of > the hot air in both house and attic. From bill at gingerich.us Tue Jul 17 21:19:42 2007 From: bill at gingerich.us (Bill Gingerich) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:19:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? In-Reply-To: <226500.54739.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <226500.54739.qm@web613.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00c101c7c8ea$7ccc1340$4266e344@shack2> Doug, Absolutely DO NOT vent into the attic! Outside venting is the standard recommendation for bath and kitchen fans, and I believe it is sound advice for a garage vent fan. Humidity, CO, dust, fumes should be blown outside, not into anywhere connected to living space. Through an outside wall would be OK, IMHO. I'd also vent the attic space, and insulate the ceiling of the garage - keep most of that heat from getting to the garage in the first place. And help you heat it in colder weather too. Win-win. Bill Gingerich OKC Hoping to build my shop someday. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+bill=gingerich.us at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+bill=gingerich.us at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Braun Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:16 AM To: Shop-Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Garage ventilation? Hello, I have a 24x24' garage with sheet-rocked walls and a high 12-foot sheet-rocked ceiling. The garage doors are only 6'6" high, so the upper half of the garage interior is a completely unventilated space. Above the ceiling is a fairly high attic space. There is no insulation at all. The garage is attached to the house, but the garage's attic is separate from the house attic (the wall between them is insulated). The garage gets stiflingly hot in the summer, and I would love to install some sort of ventilation fan. Would it be legal to install a exhaust fan in the garage ceiling that ventilated into the attic? Or would this be against code and/or a carbon monoxide hazard? Or could I possibly put an exhaust fan near the top of one side wall, to exhaust directly outdoors? (I probably should also put insulation in the ceiling and improve the mediocre ventilation in the attic space.) Thanks, Doug From jem at milleredp.com Wed Jul 18 12:50:10 2007 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:50:10 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] [Fwd: Product Recall Notice Regarding Your Amazon.com Order (#102-4044345-7599357) Placed ${OrderDate}] Message-ID: <469E60E2.1040409@milleredp.com> FYI. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Product Recall Notice Regarding Your Amazon.com Order (#102-4044345-7599357) Placed ${OrderDate} Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Amazon.com To: jem at milleredp.com Greetings from Amazon.com. We have recently learned that Milwaukee, in cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), is voluntarily recalling Milwaukee Power Plus, Chicago Pneumatic, and Extractor 14.4 and 18 volt 2.4 Ah NiCd battery packs. It has been determined that if a vent on the battery cell is damaged or compromised during use, the battery can explode and pose a laceration hazard to consumers. Our records indicate that you have purchased a Milwaukee Power Plus, Chicago Pneumatic, or Extractor 14.4 and 18 volt 2.4 Ah NiCd battery pack through the Amazon.com website and are therefore affected by this recall. This recall includes 14.4 and 18 volt 2.4 Ah NiCd Milwaukee Power Plus, Chicago Pneumatic, and Extractor battery packs manufactured between July 1999 and February 2004. The brand name can be found on a label on most battery packs. However, some 14.4 Volt 2.4Ah packs did not have b Power Plusb on the label. The battery packs were sold both with tool kits and as individual battery packs. Battery packs manufactured after February 2004 are not subject to this recall. You should immediately stop using the recalled battery packs and contact the Milwaukee Electric Tool Co. to determine if you have one of the recalled batteries. Milwaukee Electric Tool Co. will provide a free replacement battery pack for customers with recalled units. For more information, contact Milwaukee Electric Tool Co. at (800) 729-3878 between 7 a.m. and 6:30 p.m. CT Monday through Friday, or visit the firmbs Web site at www.milwaukeetool.com. You may also find additional details about the recall in the CPSC bulletin at: http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07234.html If you purchased this item as a gift for someone, please notify the recipient immediately and provide them with the information in the CPSC bulletin concerning these safety issues. We regret the inconvenience this recall has caused you but trust you will understand that the safety of our customers is our highest priority. Thanks for shopping at Amazon.com. Sincerely, Customer Service Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/ Please note: this e-mail was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message. From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Sun Jul 22 15:04:23 2007 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:04:23 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem Message-ID: Craftsman 17" 21cc weedwacker, working fine (except for a broken pull-start rope this Spring) for about 6 years. Right after I filled the tank with some more gas/oil mixture (of questionable age) it decided to not start. Finally got around to emptying the tank and cleaning out the lines with some compressed air, and pulling apart where the priming bubble is, and using some carb cleaner on it, it would then start pretty quickly but would quit just as quick. This happened about 5 times before I gave up on it. Kinda weird. Maybe the plug needs replacement? That, or I guess I'm looking at pulling apart the motor completely to rebuild it or at least give it a good cleaning. The gas/oil mix that I added was no older than what was in the tank (but was older than one season at least) Any other suggestions, like running some carb cleaner through the engine somehow, or good parts to replace on it while I have it apart? Thanks, PJ _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration _HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707 From jblair1948 at cox.net Sun Jul 22 16:13:28 2007 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:13:28 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070722181328.01022ae8@pop.east.cox.net> At 05:04 PM 7/22/2007 -0400, PJ McGarvey wrote: >Craftsman 17" 21cc weedwacker, working fine (except for a broken pull-start >rope this Spring) for about 6 years. Right after I filled the tank with some >more gas/oil mixture (of questionable age) it decided to not start. Finally >got around to emptying the tank and cleaning out the lines with some >compressed air, and pulling apart where the priming bubble is, and using some >carb cleaner on it, it would then start pretty quickly but would quit just as >quick. This happened about 5 times before I gave up on it. Kinda weird. >.... PJ, A friend at work just had the same problem. His problem was junk in the carb. Try pulling the carb and cleaning it. Pay particular attention to the small orifaces and jets. It only takes a very small almost microsopic partical to cloog the jets. You may need to get a carb kit to replace the gaskets if you tear it down. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Sun Jul 22 20:15:22 2007 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 22:15:22 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c7cccf$5653d660$6581a8c0@DADSTOY> I just went through the same scenario myself....after a couple of days of doing untold damage to my rotator cuff, and noting that it was 11 years old, I just pitched it in the dumpster and went to HD and replaced it with a Homelite throw away for $69.......sometimes you just have to throw in the towel.... -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of PJ McGarvey Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:04 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem Craftsman 17" 21cc weedwacker, working fine (except for a broken pull-start rope this Spring) for about 6 years. Right after I filled the tank with some more gas/oil mixture (of questionable age) it decided to not start. Finally got around to emptying the tank and cleaning out the lines with some compressed air, and pulling apart where the priming bubble is, and using some carb cleaner on it, it would then start pretty quickly but would quit just as quick. This happened about 5 times before I gave up on it. Kinda weird. Maybe the plug needs replacement? That, or I guess I'm looking at pulling apart the motor completely to rebuild it or at least give it a good cleaning. The gas/oil mix that I added was no older than what was in the tank (but was older than one season at least) Any other suggestions, like running some carb cleaner through the engine somehow, or good parts to replace on it while I have it apart? Thanks, PJ _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio n _HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707 _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From cavanadd at verizon.net Sun Jul 22 20:28:13 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:28:13 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070722192436.01655240@incoming.verizon.net> I had the same problem this spring with my Stihl, which to date had NEVER failed to start. The guy at the Stihl place said it was bad gas. He flushed the tank out and put in new premix and it fired right up. The premix I was using was at least a year old and the 2 stroke oil was of questionable quality to start with. The repair guy said with the quality of gasoline these days you shouldn't keep premix any longer than 60 days. He said to dump any left over in your lawnmower/generator/etc to burn it up. Makes good weed killer, too. Dave C At 05:04 PM 7/22/2007 -0400, PJ McGarvey wrote: >Craftsman 17" 21cc weedwacker, working fine (except for a broken pull-start >rope this Spring) for about 6 years. Right after I filled the tank with some >more gas/oil mixture (of questionable age) it decided to not start. Finally >got around to emptying the tank and cleaning out the lines with some >compressed air, and pulling apart where the priming bubble is, and using some >carb cleaner on it, it would then start pretty quickly but would quit just as >quick. This happened about 5 times before I gave up on it. Kinda weird. >Maybe the plug needs replacement? > >That, or I guess I'm looking at pulling apart the motor completely to rebuild >it or at least give it a good cleaning. The gas/oil mix that I added was no >older than what was in the tank (but was older than one season at least) > >Any other suggestions, like running some carb cleaner through the engine >somehow, or good parts to replace on it while I have it apart? > >Thanks, >PJ >_________________________________________________________________ >PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best web mailaward-winning Windows >Live Hotmail. >http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration >_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707 >_______________________________________________ >cavanadd at verizon.net > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From drew at pixar.com Mon Jul 23 09:30:19 2007 From: drew at pixar.com (Drew Rogge) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:30:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46A4C98B.1070105@pixar.com> Could be a plugged up vent in the fuel tank. As gas is pulled from the tank it creates a vacuum and starves the carb. Drew PJ McGarvey wrote: > Craftsman 17" 21cc weedwacker, working fine (except for a broken pull-start > rope this Spring) for about 6 years. Right after I filled the tank with some > more gas/oil mixture (of questionable age) it decided to not start. Finally > got around to emptying the tank and cleaning out the lines with some > compressed air, and pulling apart where the priming bubble is, and using some > carb cleaner on it, it would then start pretty quickly but would quit just as > quick. This happened about 5 times before I gave up on it. Kinda weird. > Maybe the plug needs replacement? > > That, or I guess I'm looking at pulling apart the motor completely to rebuild > it or at least give it a good cleaning. The gas/oil mix that I added was no > older than what was in the tank (but was older than one season at least) > > Any other suggestions, like running some carb cleaner through the engine > somehow, or good parts to replace on it while I have it apart? > > Thanks, > PJ -- Drew Rogge drew at pixar.com From paul.mele at usermail.com Mon Jul 23 10:31:17 2007 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (paul mele) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 12:31:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20070722181328.01022ae8@pop.east.cox.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20070722181328.01022ae8@pop.east.cox.net> Message-ID: I'll second this vote....little particles get stuck in the main jet, and it shuts down; particle floats out; restarts; sucks in....stalls; think of the ball-valve effect Spark and compression and valves all don't fit the description PJ, A friend at work just had the same problem. His problem was junk in the carb. Try pulling the carb and cleaning it. Pay particular attention to the small orifaces and jets. It only takes a very small almost microsopic partical to cloog the jets. You may need to get a carb kit to replace the gaskets if you tear it down. John From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 23 12:07:46 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <719845.37276.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've had a coupl eof tools that refused to run unless the gas tank was 100% full. It turned out to be a crack in the fuel line from the tank to the carb, which would let in air. The crack was in the portion of the line inside the tank, so it did not cause an external gas leak. Doug --- PJ McGarvey wrote: > Craftsman 17" 21cc weedwacker, working fine (except > for a broken pull-start > rope this Spring) for about 6 years. Right after I > filled the tank with some > more gas/oil mixture (of questionable age) it > decided to not start. Finally > got around to emptying the tank and cleaning out the > lines with some > compressed air, and pulling apart where the priming > bubble is, and using some > carb cleaner on it, it would then start pretty > quickly but would quit just as > quick. This happened about 5 times before I gave up > on it. Kinda weird. > Maybe the plug needs replacement? From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Mon Jul 23 13:23:17 2007 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:23:17 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Weedwacker starting problem In-Reply-To: <46A4C98B.1070105@pixar.com> References: <46A4C98B.1070105@pixar.com> Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7972D7A84@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> > Could be a plugged up vent in the fuel tank. As gas is > pulled from the tank it creates a vacuum and starves > the carb. This one is easy to check for. Loosen the gas cap and see if the engine keeps running. If it does, then that is the problem. If not... Tim Mullen From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 23 14:04:58 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:04:58 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin In-Reply-To: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7972D7A84@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> References: <46A4C98B.1070105@pixar.com> <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7972D7A84@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> Message-ID: <0JLN00G61EHRABK0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Hello all. I am trying to fix a hood prop mechanism for a car. There are two pieces of metal joined by a pin. They are intended to move about that pin. There is a plastic washer in between the two pieces. The pin has a head on one side, and the other side was swaged in the manufacturing process. The problem is, there is now too much slop in this joint and the two pieces of metal can twist relative to each other, which messes up the intended geometry. I should be able to swage the pin some more to tighten up this joint. What do you think the best way to do this is? I could just wack it with a ball peen hammer. Or try to squeeze it in a vise or press. I think the plastic washer pretty much eliminates any use of heat. Anyone have any suggestions on the best approach? Thanks. From stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Mon Jul 23 15:11:18 2007 From: stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com (Stevie G) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:11:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin In-Reply-To: <0JLN00G61EHRABK0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <000201c7cd6e$05fcd1e0$0201a8c0@steve> I'm thinking put it in a press. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+stevie_g=swampfoxcustoms.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+stevie_g=swampfoxcustoms.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Trovato Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 4:05 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin Hello all. I am trying to fix a hood prop mechanism for a car. There are two pieces of metal joined by a pin. They are intended to move about that pin. There is a plastic washer in between the two pieces. The pin has a head on one side, and the other side was swaged in the manufacturing process. The problem is, there is now too much slop in this joint and the two pieces of metal can twist relative to each other, which messes up the intended geometry. I should be able to swage the pin some more to tighten up this joint. What do you think the best way to do this is? I could just wack it with a ball peen hammer. Or try to squeeze it in a vise or press. I think the plastic washer pretty much eliminates any use of heat. Anyone have any suggestions on the best approach? Thanks. _______________________________________________ stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From wmgilroy at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 18:11:06 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:11:06 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] We need help with our Red Bull Soapbox Wildcard Voting Message-ID: <441250190707231711g5c79ed6fp53c93fef72de8729@mail.gmail.com> Okay, I feel stupid about sending mail like this, but some guys here in Seattle and myself decided to entered the Red Bull Soapbox derby at the last minute. After minutes of planning a crack team with specially honed skills was assembled: Craig: A guy who will do anything thing no matter how stupid Me: I was asked because I have a welder and I joined because I heard they would have beer Chris: When we ran out of brainstorming ideas he was the only guy to answer his phone Brad: He was the biggest guy we knew and when we said we were going to strap in into a cart and send him hurtling down a hill, he said, "Uh, I'm in." Only about 40 cars get to compete in the race, but somehow in order to get into the contest, we need votes on the website in order to make it as the wildcard entry. You're allowed one vote per person per day until Aug. 8th. I'm asking you go to http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for team "Death Trap" until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. Help make our dreams of creating and racing a giant mousetrap with cheese down a hill in Fremont Sept. 29th! Imagine the video: a bunch of drunk rats with one hurtling to his death or a least an injury. Thanks, Bill Gilroy PS. If you have a computer at home and work you can vote twice, help a nerd out. From mbarre at juno.com Mon Jul 23 18:35:34 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:35:34 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] induction system cleaning Message-ID: <20070723.173539.8348.218850@webmail31.lax.untd.com> Anyone have an opinion on the value of an induction system cleaning? I have seen the canister based systems that inject a solvent into the airstream as well as machines that do the same. What says the group? Good way do degunk/decarbon an engine or better suited to pad the mechanic's profit margin? Matt in GA From 57healey at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 19:07:45 2007 From: 57healey at gmail.com (Patton Dickson) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:07:45 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] We need help with our Red Bull Soapbox Wildcard Voting In-Reply-To: <441250190707231711g5c79ed6fp53c93fef72de8729@mail.gmail.com> References: <441250190707231711g5c79ed6fp53c93fef72de8729@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <743b1e2f0707231807g79559dd6ke130df7eea5421c5@mail.gmail.com> Hard to vote aginst the Aston Martin, but my vote is cast. Will try for every day. Good luck On 7/23/07, Bill Gilroy wrote: > http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and > vote for team "Death Trap" until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who > can help spread the word. -- Patton Dickson - http://Austin-Healeys.com - Plano, TX 1957 Austin-Healey 100-Six "Built to run 'til the road wears out." From stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Mon Jul 23 20:17:36 2007 From: stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com (Stevie G) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:17:36 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] induction system cleaning In-Reply-To: <20070723.173539.8348.218850@webmail31.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <000201c7cd98$d05cbc50$0201a8c0@steve> Hey Matt, Where in GA are you? As for the intake / upper engine cleaners, most work. Then again, a mist of water into the intake with the idle set up a little works too, for less money. May depend on how heavy/thick the carbon is. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+stevie_g=swampfoxcustoms.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+stevie_g=swampfoxcustoms.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 8:36 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] induction system cleaning Anyone have an opinion on the value of an induction system cleaning? I have seen the canister based systems that inject a solvent into the airstream as well as machines that do the same. What says the group? Good way do degunk/decarbon an engine or better suited to pad the mechanic's profit margin? Matt in GA _______________________________________________ stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From dreinsch at swbell.net Mon Jul 23 20:26:02 2007 From: dreinsch at swbell.net (Dwade Reinsch) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Electric heating bed blanket Message-ID: <248165.65043.qm@web80212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, Someone always knows the answer to every question. Should a electric blanket for your bed, not a heating pad, be warm enough to feel "warm" after it's been on for a bit? Especially on the high setting? Any suggestions about staying warm on these cold nights? Thanks, Dwade From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Jul 23 20:40:12 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:40:12 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Electric heating bed blanket Message-ID: <072420070240.1610.46A5668C000110FC0000064A220076230204040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> is this a holdover from january? it's 78 degrees outside my house right now. but yeah, our electric blankets feel warm to the touch (in january). -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Dwade Reinsch > Someone always knows the answer to every question. Should a electric blanket > for your bed, not a heating pad, be warm enough to feel "warm" after it's been > on for a bit? Especially on the high setting? Any suggestions about staying > warm on these cold nights? From mbarre at juno.com Mon Jul 23 20:46:49 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:46:49 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Electric heating bed blanket Message-ID: <20070723.194654.5797.219094@webmail36.lax.untd.com> I didn't consider the engineering back then, but when attending college 25+ years ago in Connecticut I clearly recall my trusty electric blanket being toasty warm to the touch well into the night. Matt -- Dwade Reinsch wrote: Hi all, Someone always knows the answer to every question. Should a electric blanket for your bed, not a heating pad, be warm enough to feel "warm" after it's been on for a bit? Especially on the high setting? Any suggestions about staying warm on these cold nights? Thanks, Dwade _______________________________________________ mbarre at juno.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From hillman at planet-torque.com Mon Jul 23 21:10:29 2007 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Electric heating bed blanket In-Reply-To: <20070723.194654.5797.219094@webmail36.lax.untd.com> References: <20070723.194654.5797.219094@webmail36.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Matt wrote: > I didn't consider the engineering back then, but when attending college 25+ > years ago in Connecticut I clearly recall my trusty electric blanket being > toasty warm to the touch well into the night. My parents' house in the mountains of New York had no heat in the two upstairs bedrooms except that which radiated up the staircase. My sister and I probably would've frozen to death some cold night without our electric blankets. But even still, I was rarely able to stay under it all night long as it'd get too hot. Damn, thanks for the memories. -- David Hillman From cornerexit at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 21:21:51 2007 From: cornerexit at gmail.com (cornerexit) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:21:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] What lube for this application? Message-ID: <09bb01c7cda1$c75d55c0$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> I just installed this lat pull-down attachment on my sons weight lifting power rack. The main tube is square steel tube, chrome plated, and you can see the plastic insert in the black slider tube of the carriage. There is one plastic insert in the top of that slider tube and one in the bottom. This design does not slide anywhere close to smoothly. We have to stack quite a bit of weight on the unit to get it to work at all. All the related pulleys, cables etc move freely. The binding is in the interface between the plastic inserts and the chrome plated main tube. What kind of lube can I use on that chrome plated main tube to help this situation? I hate to use any sort of oil based lube for fear of what effect it will have on that cheap plastic insert? Maybe some auto polish or some chrome polish??? Is there some sort of dry lube that work in this application? Bar of soap? I have a feeling I'll need to change this design eventually as there is very little surface area in the plastic inserts riding on the main tube. Wonder if I could pull those two inserts and glue a four very thin strips of UHMW to the inside walls of the carriage tube? http://waynef.smugmug.com/photos/176378982-M.jpg Thanks Wayne From stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Mon Jul 23 22:15:56 2007 From: stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com (Stevie G) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:15:56 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] What lube for this application? In-Reply-To: <09bb01c7cda1$c75d55c0$0301a8c0@Waynehouseputer> Message-ID: <000401c7cda9$580a5df0$0201a8c0@steve> White lithium grease. Same thing they use on window sliders in cars. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:22 PM To: 'Shop Talk' Subject: [Shop-talk] What lube for this application? I just installed this lat pull-down attachment on my sons weight lifting power rack. The main tube is square steel tube, chrome plated, and you can see the plastic insert in the black slider tube of the carriage. There is one plastic insert in the top of that slider tube and one in the bottom. This design does not slide anywhere close to smoothly. We have to stack quite a bit of weight on the unit to get it to work at all. All the related pulleys, cables etc move freely. The binding is in the interface between the plastic inserts and the chrome plated main tube. What kind of lube can I use on that chrome plated main tube to help this situation? I hate to use any sort of oil based lube for fear of what effect it will have on that cheap plastic insert? Maybe some auto polish or some chrome polish??? Is there some sort of dry lube that work in this application? Bar of soap? I have a feeling I'll need to change this design eventually as there is very little surface area in the plastic inserts riding on the main tube. Wonder if I could pull those two inserts and glue a four very thin strips of UHMW to the inside walls of the carriage tube? http://waynef.smugmug.com/photos/176378982-M.jpg Thanks Wayne _______________________________________________ From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 23 22:29:28 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:29:28 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Electric heating bed blanket In-Reply-To: <248165.65043.qm@web80212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <248165.65043.qm@web80212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0JLO001Z31U6H270@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Well, my first answer is to agree with everyone else, and say that yes, an electric blanket should feel quite warm. But my answer and most of the other answers are based on our experiences many years ago. There have been a lot of safety concerns over electric blankets, everything from harmful electric fields to overheating people to fire hazards. It is possible that the newest electric blankets have been regulated to be less warm. Does anyone have any experience with a new electric blanket? -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 10:26 PM 7/23/2007, Dwade Reinsch wrote: >Hi all, > > Someone always knows the answer to every question. Should a > electric blanket for your bed, not a heating pad, be warm enough to > feel "warm" after it's been on for a bit? Especially on the high > setting? Any suggestions about staying warm on these cold nights? From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Jul 23 22:51:12 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 04:51:12 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Electric heating bed blanket Message-ID: <072420070451.16716.46A585400007813E0000414C220073484004040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> my wife bought one this winter (how is she cold here? I'm usually in shorts well past thanksgiving) from bed bath and beyond. it doesn't get heating pad hot, but it can get warm, and certainly uncomfortably warm to lay under. I don't think it could actually burn someone, but it's definitely hot enough to know it's on. at high you'd need to be outside on a cold windy night to not be uncomfortable. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Steven Trovato > Well, my first answer is to agree with everyone else, and say that > yes, an electric blanket should feel quite warm. But my answer and > most of the other answers are based on our experiences many years > ago. There have been a lot of safety concerns over electric > blankets, everything from harmful electric fields to overheating > people to fire hazards. It is possible that the newest electric > blankets have been regulated to be less warm. Does anyone have any > experience with a new electric blanket? From BSHolden at aol.com Mon Jul 23 22:53:32 2007 From: BSHolden at aol.com (BSHolden at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:53:32 EDT Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin Message-ID: A machine screw or bolt with a washer backed e clip in place of the pin? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------- In a message dated 7/23/2007 3:06:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, strovato at optonline.net writes: Hello all. I am trying to fix a hood prop mechanism for a car. There are two pieces of metal joined by a pin. They are intended to move about that pin. There is a plastic washer in between the two pieces. The pin has a head on one side, and the other side was swaged in the manufacturing process. The problem is, there is now too much slop in this joint and the two pieces of metal can twist relative to each other, which messes up the intended geometry. I should be able to swage the pin some more to tighten up this joint. What do you think the best way to do this is? I could just wack it with a ball peen hammer. Or try to squeeze it in a vise or press. I think the plastic washer pretty much eliminates any use of heat. Anyone have any suggestions on the best approach? Thanks. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From strovato at optonline.net Mon Jul 23 23:03:03 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:03:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0JLO0060U3EVBI50@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Yeah, that would work if all else fails, but I would like it to look original. It's a 1955 MG Magnette. At 12:53 AM 7/24/2007, BSHolden at aol.com wrote: >A machine screw or bolt with a washer backed e clip in place of the pin? From jibjib at att.net Mon Jul 23 23:06:46 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:06:46 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] induction system cleaning In-Reply-To: <000201c7cd98$d05cbc50$0201a8c0@steve> References: <20070723.173539.8348.218850@webmail31.lax.untd.com> <000201c7cd98$d05cbc50$0201a8c0@steve> Message-ID: <01ac01c7cdb0$6ff12000$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> I vote for water mist too, it's worked for me over the years. Lots of folks seem to be happy with Seafoam, pulled into the manifold through a vacuum port, often the power brake line. The key is to find a vacuum line that will allow the cleaning fluid to be pulled evenly in to all cylinders. There seems to be a push towards not allowing solvent cleaners to run amuck over your hot wire metering system. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Stevie G Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 7:18 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] induction system cleaning Hey Matt, Where in GA are you? As for the intake / upper engine cleaners, most work. Then again, a mist of water into the intake with the idle set up a little works too, for less money. May depend on how heavy/thick the carbon is. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+stevie_g=swampfoxcustoms.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+stevie_g=swampfoxcustoms.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 8:36 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] induction system cleaning Anyone have an opinion on the value of an induction system cleaning? I have seen the canister based systems that inject a solvent into the airstream as well as machines that do the same. What says the group? Good way do degunk/decarbon an engine or better suited to pad the mechanic's profit margin? Matt in GA _______________________________________________ stevie_g at swampfoxcustoms.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk _______________________________________________ jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From jibjib at att.net Mon Jul 23 23:10:14 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:10:14 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin In-Reply-To: <0JLN00G61EHRABK0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <46A4C98B.1070105@pixar.com><9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7972D7A84@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> <0JLN00G61EHRABK0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <01ad01c7cdb0$ec0f1ca0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Squeeze that swage closed in a few steps, so you don't over tighten it. If it's easy to pull the prop rod, I'd do it in a vice. If not, use a C-clamp to squeeze it. Whatever tool you chose, be sure it has some feel, so you can tell what is going on with the swage, as you compress it. Magnattes are neat cars. Jack TR's 3 & 8 -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Trovato Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 1:05 PM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin Hello all. I am trying to fix a hood prop mechanism for a car. There are two pieces of metal joined by a pin. They are intended to move about that pin. There is a plastic washer in between the two pieces. The pin has a head on one side, and the other side was swaged in the manufacturing process. The problem is, there is now too much slop in this joint and the two pieces of metal can twist relative to each other, which messes up the intended geometry. I should be able to swage the pin some more to tighten up this joint. What do you think the best way to do this is? I could just wack it with a ball peen hammer. Or try to squeeze it in a vise or press. I think the plastic washer pretty much eliminates any use of heat. Anyone have any suggestions on the best approach? Thanks. _______________________________________________ jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From cak at dimebank.com Mon Jul 23 23:12:30 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin Message-ID: <200707240512.l6O5CUjH023252@moose.dimebank.com> I have replaced a similar pin arrangement with a suitably sized bolt plus washer and nyloc nut. That allows the tension to be set exactly the way you'd like. Consider that as a backup if you can't manage to swage it. chris From foxtrapper at ispwest.com Tue Jul 24 04:08:46 2007 From: foxtrapper at ispwest.com (Nolan) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 06:08:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] induction system cleaning References: <20070723.173539.8348.218850@webmail31.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <001a01c7cdda$a05ca820$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us> The answer is the great "it depends". If all you're after is knocking carbon out of the combustion chamber, some water down the intake does a dandy job. Unnerves some, but it works very well. The chemicals in the DIY kits are good. Perhaps not as good as some of the high end shop machines, but still quite powerful at dissolving gooey carbon. Some engines are far more prone to heavy carbon buildup in the intake runners and the throttle bodies. These engines will not be well cleaned by the DIY kits, typically. The DIY kits only clean below the point they get sucked in. For those really messy manifolds and throttle bodies, the best DIY approach is to remove the throttle body and manifold, and clean them. A good shop system that cleans through the throttle body will do a much better job of cleaning the carbon than the DIY kit, as it reaches areas the DIY kit does not. You can probably get a pretty decent idea of your carbon levels in the intake by just opening the throttle body and looking in. Black and lumpy is not a good thing to see. The performance benefits of carbon clean depend on how much of a mess you've got in there. I've seen engines carbon up to the point of no longer running. Those engines benefited greatly from a carbon cleaning. Engines that were clean to begin with saw really no improvement. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt" To: Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 8:35 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] induction system cleaning > Anyone have an opinion on the value of an induction system cleaning? I > have > seen the canister based systems that inject a solvent into the airstream > as > well as machines that do the same. What says the group? Good way do > degunk/decarbon an engine or better suited to pad the mechanic's profit > margin? > Matt in GA > _______________________________________________ > foxtrapper at ispwest.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Jul 24 05:05:18 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 04:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Electric heating bed blanket In-Reply-To: <248165.65043.qm@web80212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <931796.13546.qm@web605.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Dwade Reinsch wrote: > Any suggestions about staying warm on > these cold nights? In New Jersey where I live, July 25 is statistically the hottest day of the year... Doug From eric at megageek.com Tue Jul 24 06:02:33 2007 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:02:33 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] We need help with our Red Bull Soapbox Wildcard Voting Message-ID: Bill, I gave you a vote and it looks like your team is in second place. Do you need to win this vote or only come in at the two 2? BTW, I'm pissed that you never called me! I BRING beer with me and will do anything! 8>) Moose "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." Tori Amos From mark at sccaprepared.com Tue Jul 24 08:25:25 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? Message-ID: Howdy, We just got a minivan from my folks, who own a golden retreiver. The van is nice, except that it smells like dog inside. Its not so bad that you puke or anything, but its enough that its annoying. What's the best DIY way to clean this thing up so that the smell is at least reduced? Thanks! Mark From mbarre at juno.com Tue Jul 24 08:33:26 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:33:26 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? Message-ID: <20070724.073336.23752.220882@webmail30.lax.untd.com> No personal experience myself, but some options include Febreeze and carpet deodorizers. I have heard vinegar kills urine smells. Another option includes some professional deodorizers carried at janitorial supply houses. Good Luck! -- Mark Andy wrote: Howdy, We just got a minivan from my folks, who own a golden retreiver. The van is nice, except that it smells like dog inside. Its not so bad that you puke or anything, but its enough that its annoying. What's the best DIY way to clean this thing up so that the smell is at least reduced? Thanks! Mark _______________________________________________ mbarre at juno.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Tue Jul 24 08:34:18 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:34:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46A60DEA.6000909@hornesystemstx.com> Mark, Try baking soda and/or Fabreze. I've used both to get strange smells out of things, including a smoker's car. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Mark Andy: > Howdy, > > We just got a minivan from my folks, who own a golden retreiver. > > The van is nice, except that it smells like dog inside. Its not so bad > that you puke or anything, but its enough that its annoying. > > What's the best DIY way to clean this thing up so that the smell is at > least reduced? > > Thanks! > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > roadsters at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Tue Jul 24 08:37:18 2007 From: gerrybraz at cablespeed.com (Gerald Brazil) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:37:18 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c7ce00$2645d0e0$6581a8c0@DADSTOY> I have found that Fabreeze works pretty good but test the various ones out to find one you like....some of them are more annoying than the dog smell. -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+gerrybraz=cablespeed.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark Andy Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:25 AM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? Howdy, We just got a minivan from my folks, who own a golden retreiver. The van is nice, except that it smells like dog inside. Its not so bad that you puke or anything, but its enough that its annoying. What's the best DIY way to clean this thing up so that the smell is at least reduced? Thanks! Mark _______________________________________________ gerrybraz at cablespeed.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From strovato at optonline.net Tue Jul 24 08:37:10 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:37:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I would say just vacuum and shampoo carpets and seats (if cloth). And of course there are a thousand "cover-up" type deodorizers. To me, most of them smell worse than a golden retriever. Fabreze seems to work pretty well too. And also, time is your friend. It will fade. My mom quit smoking a year ago. Her car doesn't smell like an ashtray any more. And she didn't do anything special. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 10:25 AM 7/24/2007, Mark Andy wrote: >Howdy, > >We just got a minivan from my folks, who own a golden retreiver. > >The van is nice, except that it smells like dog inside. From strovato at optonline.net Tue Jul 24 08:54:07 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:54:07 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0JLO0016UUTIEG10@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Well, this thread has proven that everyone spells Febreze differently! I just had to check. http://www.febreze.com/en_US/febreze/home.do From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Jul 24 09:06:21 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:06:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <204401c7ce04$31c65120$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > I would say just vacuum and shampoo carpets and seats (if > cloth). After that, try pouring a pint or so of Clorox in a shallow dish and shutting it up inside the van for a day or two, preferably parked in the sun. The chlorine fumes will help kill the dog odor, and dissipate quickly once you air out the van. Probably help fade the upholstery a bit too, but I assume that's not an issue. Randall (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From mark at sccaprepared.com Tue Jul 24 09:26:32 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Howdy, On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Steven Trovato wrote: > I would say just vacuum and shampoo carpets and seats (if cloth). And > of course there are a thousand "cover-up" type deodorizers. To me, most > of them smell worse than a golden retriever. Fabreze seems to work > pretty well too. And also, time is your friend. It will fade. My mom > quit smoking a year ago. Her car doesn't smell like an ashtray any > more. And she didn't do anything special. This will sound dumb, but how do you shampoo the carpets/seats (yes, cloth)? Rent one of those rug washer dealys from the grocery store? Something else? Mark From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Jul 24 10:03:37 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:03:37 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: References: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070724115234.01dc4878@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 11:26 AM 7/24/2007, you wrote: >This will sound dumb, but how do you shampoo the carpets/seats (yes, >cloth)? Rent one of those rug washer dealys from the grocery store? I've had very good results with the "Rug Doctor" ones available at Lowes or the grocery; at least on regular interior (of the house) carpeting. They have an upholstery nozzle you can get for a few extra $$, but I've not tried it personally. They also have an odor remover additive that worked well on the cigarette stench my former roommate left me with. Be careful with Febreeze. I used it on some indoor carpeting recently, and it stinks worse than before! I started in a bedroom with lingering dog odor from some guest's pets. It seemed to help, and left the carpet closer to "odor neutral". So I figured if a little was good a lot must be better, and did a 2nd bedroom, hallway area rug, and office chair with a heavier application than the first room. BWARF! 2 weeks later there is still a lingering chemical / perfume smell that's much worse a little dawg. Use the stuff sparingly, and perhaps only on a small area first. -Wayne From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Jul 24 10:17:21 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:17:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off topic - Electric heating bed blanket In-Reply-To: <248165.65043.qm@web80212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <248165.65043.qm@web80212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <205901c7ce0e$1e4f83a0$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > Someone always knows the answer to every question. Should > a electric blanket for your bed, not a heating pad, be warm > enough to feel "warm" after it's been on for a bit? Mine only gets noticeably warm when compared to otherwise cold bed sheets. Maybe 75F or so. Note that it has to be laid flat to work. If it's folded anywhere, modern blankets will detect the fold and shut down. This is a "safety feature", which has woken me up more than once. Randall (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From strovato at optonline.net Tue Jul 24 10:17:28 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:17:28 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: References: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0JLO0080LYMBFN80@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Well, I suppose you could do that, but I was just thinking that you buy a few of those cans of foamy carpet shampoo and then vacuum when it dries. There are a zillion different cleaners like this, available in auto parts stores, supermarkets and walmart/kmart type places. I'm sure the rented machine would do a better job, but it may not be necessary. >This will sound dumb, but how do you shampoo the carpets/seats (yes, cloth)? From smarc at smarc.net Tue Jul 24 10:47:55 2007 From: smarc at smarc.net (Marc) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:47:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: References: <0JLO00ETLTZ6L9A1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <46A62D3B.7000205@smarc.net> I've had real good luck with a small Bissell shampooer. Little Green Clean Machine... http://www.bissell.com/Products/product.asp?product_id=LITTLE+green+CO MPACT+MULTIPURPOSE+CLEANER&cookie_test=1 Marc Mark Andy wrote: Howdy, On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Steven Trovato wrote: I would say just vacuum and shampoo carpets and seats (if cloth). And of course there are a thousand "cover-up" type deodorizers. To me, most of them smell worse than a golden retriever. Fabreze seems to work pretty well too. And also, time is your friend. It will fade. My mom quit smoking a year ago. Her car doesn't smell like an ashtray any more. And she didn't do anything special. This will sound dumb, but how do you shampoo the carpets/seats (yes, cloth)? Rent one of those rug washer dealys from the grocery store? Something else? Mark From wmgilroy at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 11:00:21 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:00:21 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] We need help with our Red Bull Soapbox Wildcard Voting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <441250190707241000n27d627d3ld6b63ac6a16de769@mail.gmail.com> We need to come in first according to the Red Bull people. I thought about calling given your big ass garage, but you are in Hunterdon County, NJ and I am in Seattle WA these days. Thanks for the votes. On 7/24/07, eric at megageek.com wrote: > > Bill, I gave you a vote and it looks like your team is in second place. > > Do you need to win this vote or only come in at the two 2? > > BTW, I'm pissed that you never called me! I BRING beer with me and will > do > anything! 8>) > > -- > > Vote for Team Death Trap at > http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and > vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the > word. From mbarre at juno.com Tue Jul 24 14:44:54 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:44:54 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Sears XCargo 20 sv Message-ID: <20070724.134516.29664.223824@webmail34.lax.untd.com> Does anyone on the list have a sears car top carrier with the instructions? I have a sport 20 sv and am having a brain fart here and can't recall how they suggest mounting the darn thing. I have most of the hardware but need to get a few more carriage bolts. Left to my own I will probably slap some U bolts in it but it has some brackets and I just can't figure out how it is supposed to work by looking at it. Matt From mattw at webtripper.com Tue Jul 24 15:57:20 2007 From: mattw at webtripper.com (Matt Wehland) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:57:20 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: <001001c7ce00$2645d0e0$6581a8c0@DADSTOY> References: <001001c7ce00$2645d0e0$6581a8c0@DADSTOY> Message-ID: <200707241657.21408.mattw@webtripper.com> > What's the best DIY way to clean this thing up so that the smell is at > least reduced? > > Thanks! > > Mark Baking soda, Baking Soda, baking soda. Sprinkle it all over everything, rub it in good, let it sit for a few hours or more and vacuum out. Repeat if necessary. Try to do it on a sunny day if possible. I've used all sorts of things over the years, but this is the best, easiest and cheapest way I've found. Anecdotal evidence to follow- Our last rental house had nasty, doggy carpet. We were moving in with our first baby due in a month. I had a Bisell green machine and shampooed the carpeting many times over 5-20 times depending on location, I couldn't stand up straight afterward (too short of a handle on the green machine). Got the carpeting better, but the house would still stink after being shut up for a few days. Even in the winter, when we got home after being out of town, the first thing we did was open windows to let the stink out. Then one day I was lying on the floor playing with Gracie (our newborn) and the carpeting was enough to gag you. I tried some deodorizer w/baking soda and it worked ( on a real small area) I was going to buy more baking soda when I remembered that I had about 30lbs left over from a project I had (we sell soaps, soy candles, lotions and other bath products and had used baking soda in bath fizzies which is why I had so much). Dumped the stuff all over the carpeting, danced around the floor for a while mixing it in, left overnight and then vacuumed. Carpeting was much better. Did it one more time and the carpeting was acceptable, no more stinky house when left for a few days, no more gagging when laying on the floor. I'm sure it could have used to be repeated every once in a while, but we moved after getting electrical shocks from the house one to many times. I still want to kick myself for living with such a stinky house and putting so much effort in to shampooing everything when I had the answer right there. Matt Wehland From eric at megageek.com Tue Jul 24 16:47:41 2007 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:47:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Ignition Message-ID: Hello, quick question.. I have a mower that has a Kolher 23 HP motor and I was wondering if anyone knew of a source for electronic ignition modules conversion kits. I want to get rid of these damn points and put in something a little less maintenance requiring. Thanks. Moose "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." Tori Amos From dmscheidt at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 17:32:30 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:32:30 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Ignition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2400a5d40707241632s2e12cd47p1a2beb2a75d5bbd9@mail.gmail.com> On 7/24/07, eric at megageek.com wrote: > Hello, quick question.. > > I have a mower that has a Kolher 23 HP motor and I was wondering if anyone > knew of a source for electronic ignition modules conversion kits. > > I want to get rid of these damn points and put in something a little less > maintenance requiring. Thanks. I have no idea if anyone makes a kit specifically for your engine or not. If you can't find one, there are control modules that are run by the points. The points no longer switch a high current source, so they don't arc, and should last a long time. They wear out, because the cam on the distributor rubs against the rubbing block. If your problem is that the rubbing block wears out because the dizzy shaft wobbles, they won't help. Points on an engine like that should last a long time, though, so I wonder if that isn't your problem? -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From watsonm05 at comcast.net Tue Jul 24 18:54:22 2007 From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:54:22 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Getting dog smell out of car? Message-ID: <017201c7ce56$58338830$0202a8c0@watsongxpejt9r> I'll second the baking soda. Similar scenario of cleaned carpet still smelling of dog until after use of a commercial deodorizer w/baking soda (I didn't happen to have 30 lbs of baking soda "laying around" ;-) Basically no more doggy smell. Good luck. Mark Watson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Wehland" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? >> What's the best DIY way to clean this thing up so that the smell is at >> least reduced? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Mark > > Baking soda, Baking Soda, baking soda. > > Sprinkle it all over everything, rub it in good, let it sit for a few > hours or > more and vacuum out. Repeat if necessary. Try to do it on a sunny day if > possible. > I've used all sorts of things over the years, but this is the best, > easiest > and cheapest way I've found. > > Anecdotal evidence to follow- > > Our last rental house had nasty, doggy carpet. We were moving in with our > first baby due in a month. I had a Bisell green machine and shampooed the > carpeting many times over 5-20 times depending on location, I couldn't > stand > up straight afterward (too short of a handle on the green machine). > Got the carpeting better, but the house would still stink after being shut > up > for a few days. Even in the winter, when we got home after being out of > town, the first thing we did was open windows to let the stink out. > Then one day I was lying on the floor playing with Gracie (our newborn) > and > the carpeting was enough to gag you. I tried some deodorizer w/baking soda > and it worked ( on a real small area) I was going to buy more baking soda > when I remembered that I had about 30lbs left over from a project I had > (we > sell soaps, soy candles, lotions and other bath products and had used > baking > soda in bath fizzies which is why I had so much). > Dumped the stuff all over the carpeting, danced around the floor for a > while > mixing it in, left overnight and then vacuumed. Carpeting was much > better. > Did it one more time and the carpeting was acceptable, no more stinky > house > when left for a few days, no more gagging when laying on the floor. > I'm sure it could have used to be repeated every once in a while, but we > moved > after getting electrical shocks from the house one to many times. > I still want to kick myself for living with such a stinky house and > putting so > much effort in to shampooing everything when I had the answer right there. > > Matt Wehland > _______________________________________________ > watsonm05 at comcast.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From aztvr at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 20:29:18 2007 From: aztvr at yahoo.com (Jim S.) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <667223.21199.qm@web31002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've used a pet odor removal product from Petsmart. They have several, I don't know which I used. Make sure that you vacuum out all the dog hair so the smell doesn't come back. I have also used ground coffee spread out for a while to neutralize smells Mark Andy wrote: Howdy, We just got a minivan from my folks, who own a golden retreiver. The van is nice, except that it smells like dog inside. Its not so bad that you puke or anything, but its enough that its annoying. What's the best DIY way to clean this thing up so that the smell is at least reduced? Thanks! Mark _______________________________________________ aztvr at yahoo.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. From foxtrapper at ispwest.com Wed Jul 25 03:35:26 2007 From: foxtrapper at ispwest.com (Nolan) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 05:35:26 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Ignition References: Message-ID: <002d01c7ce9f$2264ecf0$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us> Here's several Kohler electronic ignitions. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 6:47 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Ignition > Hello, quick question.. > > I have a mower that has a Kolher 23 HP motor and I was wondering if anyone > knew of a source for electronic ignition modules conversion kits. > > I want to get rid of these damn points and put in something a little less > maintenance requiring. Thanks. > > Moose > > "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." > Tori Amos > _______________________________________________ > foxtrapper at ispwest.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From wmgilroy at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 09:23:51 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:23:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <441250190707250823h4c2c4f4bk40b960239b576801@mail.gmail.com> I have never tried this but I hear it works. Take a beer flat (have some fun and drink the beer) and fill it with fresh grass clippings. Put the flat in the car with the windows closed. In a couple of days the chlorophyll (sp?) in the grass will neutralize the odor. Not sure if it works but if you try it, let the list know the results. -g -------- Vote for Team Death Trap at http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. On 7/24/07, Mark Andy wrote: > > Howdy, > > We just got a minivan from my folks, who own a golden retreiver. > > The van is nice, except that it smells like dog inside. Its not so bad > that you puke or anything, but its enough that its annoying. > > What's the best DIY way to clean this thing up so that the smell is at > least reduced? > > Thanks! > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > wmgilroy at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > -- Vote for Team Death Trap at http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Jul 25 13:33:33 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:33:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Choosing exterior wood stain Message-ID: <002c01c7cef2$b13422e0$6e01a8c0@KARL> We're getting a new cedar fence and arbor - about 250 feet, roughly half 6' and half 4', so it will take a lot of stain and time. It's an incredibly heavy fence (no Home Depot specials here), so it's likely to last a long time, and I want to keep it looking good for a long time too. Naturally I want to stain it immediately, especially the part that will be against the evil neighbor's fence and will be unavailable to us to stain again till she moves or whatever. I've always used the old-fashioned penetrating oil stains for just about anything I've ever stained, indoor or outdoor. However, there's lots of evidence that a solid stain (I call that thin paint...) protects and lasts better for exterior applications. And cedar doesn't have that much of a grain, particularly in a fence that you mostly see from a distance anyway, so I guess a solid is OK if it's really better. Test results are confusing and hard to follow. Consumer Reports, an organization I don't always trust anyway, just rated lots of stains, but none of the most-premium ones we see right now on shelves from the same manufacturers that they rated (Behr, Olympic, Cabot, etc.). They did, however, echo the solid vs transparent durability issue I've been hearing from paint dealers. I'm kind of intrigued with the hybrid (my term, not the manufacturers') products with acrylic and alkyd oils in the same formulation. Many are water clean-up, which really doesn't matter to me, but it's not a bad thing IF the material is durable and protects the wood well. But I really just don't know much about current products. Soooo... Anyone BTDT recently ?? Any paint chemists on the list ? Thanks! Karl From stuart.a.galt at boeing.com Wed Jul 25 13:56:29 2007 From: stuart.a.galt at boeing.com (Galt, Stuart A) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:56:29 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Choosing exterior wood stain In-Reply-To: <002c01c7cef2$b13422e0$6e01a8c0@KARL> References: <002c01c7cef2$b13422e0$6e01a8c0@KARL> Message-ID: Wow, What timing! I will be putting up the final boards on my 320' of cedar fence this evening and will be very curious to hear what stain to use as well. Stuart. > -----Original Message----- > From: Karl Vacek [mailto:kvacek at ameritech.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:34 PM > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Choosing exterior wood stain > > We're getting a new cedar fence and arbor - about 250 feet, > roughly half 6' > and half 4', so it will take a lot of stain and time. It's > an incredibly heavy fence (no Home Depot specials here), so > it's likely to last a long time, and I want to keep it > looking good for a long time too. Naturally I want to stain > it immediately, especially the part that will be against the > evil neighbor's fence and will be unavailable to us to stain > again till she moves or whatever. > > I've always used the old-fashioned penetrating oil stains for > just about anything I've ever stained, indoor or outdoor. > However, there's lots of evidence that a solid stain (I call > that thin paint...) protects and lasts better for exterior > applications. And cedar doesn't have that much of a grain, > particularly in a fence that you mostly see from a distance > anyway, so I guess a solid is OK if it's really better. > > Test results are confusing and hard to follow. Consumer > Reports, an organization I don't always trust anyway, just > rated lots of stains, but none of the most-premium ones we > see right now on shelves from the same manufacturers that > they rated (Behr, Olympic, Cabot, etc.). They did, however, > echo the solid vs transparent durability issue I've been > hearing from paint dealers. > > I'm kind of intrigued with the hybrid (my term, not the > manufacturers') products with acrylic and alkyd oils in the > same formulation. Many are water clean-up, which really > doesn't matter to me, but it's not a bad thing IF the > material is durable and protects the wood well. But I really > just don't know much about current products. > > Soooo... Anyone BTDT recently ?? Any paint chemists on the list ? > > Thanks! > Karl > _______________________________________________ From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Wed Jul 25 16:27:09 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:27:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Choosing exterior wood stain In-Reply-To: <002c01c7cef2$b13422e0$6e01a8c0@KARL> References: <002c01c7cef2$b13422e0$6e01a8c0@KARL> Message-ID: <46A7CE3D.6090007@hornesystemstx.com> Karl, I can't speak to what stain to use, I have some solid stain, but haven't had time to use it yet. What I suggest is that you stain the boards before you put them up so that the stain will seal the areas that will be trapped between boards, where water can be trapped also. I will be using my stain on stair treads, which will be removed for staining. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Karl Vacek: > We're getting a new cedar fence and arbor - about 250 feet, roughly half 6' > and half 4', so it will take a lot of stain and time. It's an incredibly > heavy fence (no Home Depot specials here), so it's likely to last a long time, > and I want to keep it looking good for a long time too. Naturally I want to > stain it immediately, especially the part that will be against the evil > neighbor's fence and will be unavailable to us to stain again till she moves > or whatever. > > I've always used the old-fashioned penetrating oil stains for just about > anything I've ever stained, indoor or outdoor. However, there's lots of > evidence that a solid stain (I call that thin paint...) protects and lasts > better for exterior applications. And cedar doesn't have that much of a > grain, particularly in a fence that you mostly see from a distance anyway, so > I guess a solid is OK if it's really better. > > Test results are confusing and hard to follow. Consumer Reports, an > organization I don't always trust anyway, just rated lots of stains, but none > of the most-premium ones we see right now on shelves from the same > manufacturers that they rated (Behr, Olympic, Cabot, etc.). They did, > however, echo the solid vs transparent durability issue I've been hearing from > paint dealers. > > I'm kind of intrigued with the hybrid (my term, not the manufacturers') > products with acrylic and alkyd oils in the same formulation. Many are water > clean-up, which really doesn't matter to me, but it's not a bad thing IF the > material is durable and protects the wood well. But I really just don't know > much about current products. > > Soooo... Anyone BTDT recently ?? Any paint chemists on the list ? > > Thanks! > Karl > _______________________________________________ > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From strovato at optonline.net Wed Jul 25 17:42:34 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:42:34 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin In-Reply-To: <01ad01c7cdb0$ec0f1ca0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> References: <46A4C98B.1070105@pixar.com> <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7972D7A84@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> <0JLN00G61EHRABK0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <01ad01c7cdb0$ec0f1ca0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <0JLR003RWDXH7XW0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Jack, Well, this is a pretty stout pin. A vise didn't do it. A C-clamp wouldn't stand a chance. I'm going to try a press. Yes, the Magnette is a lot of fun. I will assume for the moment that your spelling of it wasn't some sort of insect analogy. :-) TR-3's and TR-8's are pretty cool too. I remember taking a new TR-8 for a test drive that caused the salesman considerable stress. I was never one of those "I'd rather push my ___ than drive a ____" kind of guys. They're all pretty nice. -Steve At 01:10 AM 7/24/2007, Jack Brooks wrote: >Squeeze that swage closed in a few steps, so you don't over tighten it. If >it's easy to pull the prop rod, I'd do it in a vice. If not, use a C-clamp >to squeeze it. Whatever tool you chose, be sure it has some feel, so you can >tell what is going on with the swage, as you compress it. > >Magnattes are neat cars. > >Jack >TR's 3 & 8 From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Wed Jul 25 19:17:23 2007 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:17:23 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Choosing exterior wood stain Message-ID: >From my experience with using cedar outdoors, I can tell you that I would *not* use "Australian Timber Oil" from Cabots. On a table I made in the summer, by the end of winter it was moldy. Luckily I used Sikkens Cetol 1 on the benches I made, and they were perfectly fine - though a little more faded in color than I was hoping. Sikkens is expensive stuff, and will probably be hard to find. I powerwashed, sanded and recoated my table with a Marine Spar Polyurethane (they don't sell the varnish where I am anymore - FDA is cracking down) with both looks great and will probably last longer. Doesn't add any color, so probably not what you are looking for. PJ> From: kvacek at ameritech.net> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:33:33 -0500> Subject: [Shop-talk] Choosing exterior wood stain> > We're getting a new cedar fence and arbor - about 250 feet, roughly half 6'> and half 4', so it will take a lot of stain and time. It's an incredibly> heavy fence (no Home Depot specials here), so it's likely to last a long time,> and I want to keep it looking good for a long time too. Naturally I want to> stain it immediately, especially the part that will be against the evil> neighbor's fence and will be unavailable to us to stain again till she moves> or whatever.> > I've always used the old-fashioned penetrating oil stains for just about> anything I've ever stained, indoor or outdoor. However, there's lots of> evidence that a solid stain (I call that thin paint...) protects and lasts> better for exterior applications. And cedar doesn't have that much of a> grain, particularly in a fence that you mostly see from a distance anyway, so> I guess a solid is OK if it's really better.> > Test results are confusing and hard to follow. Consumer Reports, an> organization I don't always trust anyway, just rated lots of stains, but none> of the most-premium ones we see right now on shelves from the same> manufacturers that they rated (Behr, Olympic, Cabot, etc.). They did,> however, echo the solid vs transparent durability issue I've been hearing from> paint dealers.> > I'm kind of intrigued with the hybrid (my term, not the manufacturers')> products with acrylic and alkyd oils in the same formulation. Many are water> clean-up, which really doesn't matter to me, but it's not a bad thing IF the> material is durable and protects the wood well. But I really just don't know> much about current products.> > Soooo... Anyone BTDT recently ?? Any paint chemists on the list ?> > Thanks!> Karl _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlmailtextlink From mmeany at ne.rr.com Wed Jul 25 19:56:35 2007 From: mmeany at ne.rr.com (Mark Meany) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:56:35 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Choosing exterior wood stain References: Message-ID: <03fa01c7cf28$3474f4b0$6501a8c0@meansterq9coh8> Another brand to consider is Penofin. I made some ADK chairs awhile back & did some research & Penofin was right up there as far as solids content. Sikkens, too. Cabot, Thompson's & the other 'popular brands' paled by comparison. Mark Meany Keene, NH '65 TR4A IRS O From mark at sccaprepared.com Thu Jul 26 09:57:17 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Ignition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, Hoo boy, yes please! I've got a Kohler 4.5kw (I think) generator in the new RV that uses points/condenser. I'd _love_ to turn that into electronic ignition! Mark On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, eric at megageek.com wrote: > Hello, quick question.. > > I have a mower that has a Kolher 23 HP motor and I was wondering if anyone > knew of a source for electronic ignition modules conversion kits. > > I want to get rid of these damn points and put in something a little less > maintenance requiring. Thanks. > > Moose > > "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." > Tori Amos > _______________________________________________ > mark at sccaprepared.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From pethier at comcast.net Thu Jul 26 11:36:32 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:36:32 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? Message-ID: <072620071736.20666.46A8DBA00002FE4B000050BA22007504389D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> From: "Bill Gilroy" > I have never tried this but I hear it works. Take a beer flat (have some > fun and drink the beer) and fill it with fresh grass clippings. Put the > flat in the car with the windows closed. In a couple of days the chlorophyll > (sp?) in the grass will neutralize the odor. Not sure if it works but if > you try it, let the list know the results. I will predict your car stinks like rotten grass. -- Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, 1994 Miata C package pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. From wmgilroy at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 12:00:49 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:00:49 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: <072620071736.20666.46A8DBA00002FE4B000050BA22007504389D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> References: <072620071736.20666.46A8DBA00002FE4B000050BA22007504389D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <441250190707261100q92ebc7enddf0a749503c7963@mail.gmail.com> Like I said, I have never tried it; I have only read about it. Maybe the windows should be cracked. I would use a thin layer of grass. -g On 7/26/07, pethier at comcast.net wrote: > > From: "Bill Gilroy" > > I have never tried this but I hear it works. Take a beer flat (have > some > > fun and drink the beer) and fill it with fresh grass clippings. Put the > > flat in the car with the windows closed. In a couple of days the > chlorophyll > > (sp?) in the grass will neutralize the odor. Not sure if it works but > if > > you try it, let the list know the results. > > I will predict your car stinks like rotten grass. > > -- > Phil Ethier West Side Saint Paul Minnesota USA > 1962 Triumph TR4 CT2846L, 1992 Saturn SL2, 1993 Suburban, > 1994 Miata C package > pethier [at] comcast [dot] net http://forum.mnautox.com/forums/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pethier > I decry the textmessagization of the American-English language. > -- Vote for Team Death Trap at http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. From strovato at optonline.net Thu Jul 26 12:30:32 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:30:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: <441250190707261100q92ebc7enddf0a749503c7963@mail.gmail.com> References: <072620071736.20666.46A8DBA00002FE4B000050BA22007504389D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> <441250190707261100q92ebc7enddf0a749503c7963@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0JLS00MEMU5HT6C0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Guys, there was only one dog in there, not a family of skunks eating Limburger cheese. Lets not get carried away. I think some basic cleaning will probably take care of the problem. -Steve From wmgilroy at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 13:16:37 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:16:37 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: <0JLS00MEMU5HT6C0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <072620071736.20666.46A8DBA00002FE4B000050BA22007504389D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> <441250190707261100q92ebc7enddf0a749503c7963@mail.gmail.com> <0JLS00MEMU5HT6C0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <441250190707261216j645fd7fft346d4d25aa7e35b0@mail.gmail.com> You never smelled my "Dog Car". It was a Toytoa that carried a wet Irish Terrier for several years. Let's say that car was covered with hair, mud, dirt, and had a really bad "Terrier Funk". Thank god for windows. On 7/26/07, Steven Trovato wrote: > > Guys, there was only one dog in there, not a family of skunks eating > Limburger cheese. Lets not get carried away. I think some basic > cleaning will probably take care of the problem. > > -Steve > _______________________________________________ > wmgilroy at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > -- Vote for Team Death Trap at http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. From mark at sccaprepared.com Thu Jul 26 13:44:17 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Electronic Ignition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howdy, >> I have a mower that has a Kolher 23 HP motor and I was wondering if anyone >> knew of a source for electronic ignition modules conversion kits. >> >> I want to get rid of these damn points and put in something a little less >> maintenance requiring. Thanks. I dunno what engines it fits, but Jask Small Engines shows a conversion kit for Kohler: http://www.jackssmallengines.com/ignition_k.cfm (at the end of the page) From scott.hall at comcast.net Thu Jul 26 15:25:29 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:25:29 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? Message-ID: <072620072125.27250.46A9114900024FE400006A72220588448404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> I just went through this. grass didn't work at all, baking soda didn't seem to help much, and coffee might have worked, or it might have just masked the unpleasant smell with the more pleasant coffee smell. I'd do the baking soda and coffee and time, which helped the most. scott -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bill Gilroy" > Like I said, I have never tried it; I have only read about it. Maybe the > windows should be cracked. I would use a thin layer of grass. > > -g > > On 7/26/07, pethier at comcast.net wrote: > > > > I will predict your car stinks like rotten grass. From mrkirbyv at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 20:28:07 2007 From: mrkirbyv at yahoo.com (Kirby Vaughan) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:28:07 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin In-Reply-To: <0JLR003RWDXH7XW0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <000e01c7cff5$c5064c90$4002a8c0@fatboy> Steve, I have run into similar problems in the past. Try a socket about the same diameter as the outside diameter of the swaged side and squeeze it in the vise. Its hard to mash the center of the rivet but you should be able turn in the edges of the swage if it doesn't need to go too far. I have also resorted to drilling a little way into the rivet on the swaged side and then using a large punch to flare it out then mash it with a vise. I think they used a hydraulic press to do these originally and a vise won't generate enough pressure to mash the shaft of the rivet. Good luck, Kirby Vaughan -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+mrkirbyv=yahoo.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+mrkirbyv=yahoo.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steven Trovato Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:43 PM To: Jack Brooks; 'Shop Talk' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] How to tighten a swaged pin Jack, Well, this is a pretty stout pin. A vise didn't do it. A C-clamp wouldn't stand a chance. I'm going to try a press. Yes, the Magnette is a lot of fun. I will assume for the moment that your spelling of it wasn't some sort of insect analogy. :-) TR-3's and TR-8's are pretty cool too. I remember taking a new TR-8 for a test drive that caused the salesman considerable stress. I was never one of those "I'd rather push my ___ than drive a ____" kind of guys. They're all pretty nice. -Steve From gsteve at hammatt.com Fri Jul 27 21:57:20 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:57:20 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] antique pickup parts Message-ID: <00a401c7d0cb$66155100$0202a8c0@your52698ciuyt> There's a vintage/antique GMC/Chevy pickup parts house, I believe it's in Oregon. Anyone remember the name or website URL? Thanks Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From nogera at worldnet.att.net Sat Jul 28 16:04:38 2007 From: nogera at worldnet.att.net (Bob Nogueira) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:04:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welder term Message-ID: <000101c7d163$4cf6d200$4101a8c0@CARROOM> Could someone explain to me the term 'Duty Cycle" in reference to MIG welders? I figure it means how long you can weld before having to stop and allow the welder to recover but why is it expressed as a percentage? When they say the duty cycle is 25% does that mean you can weld for 1 minute and have to wait 3 minutes for the welder to recover? What happens if you exceed the Duty Cycle? What's the time frame? How do you know you are approaching the limit of the duty cycle ? Thanks for any answers Bob Nogueira From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sat Jul 28 16:44:49 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 18:44:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welder term In-Reply-To: <000101c7d163$4cf6d200$4101a8c0@CARROOM> References: <000101c7d163$4cf6d200$4101a8c0@CARROOM> Message-ID: <2400a5d40707281544q48ece57ds68052d14a4bb8a3@mail.gmail.com> On 7/28/07, Bob Nogueira wrote: > Could someone explain to me the term 'Duty Cycle" in reference to MIG > welders? I figure it means how long you can weld before having to stop and > allow the welder to recover but why is it expressed as a percentage? > When they say the duty cycle is 25% does that mean you can weld for 1 > minute and have to wait 3 minutes for the welder to recover? What happens if > you exceed the Duty Cycle? What's the time frame? How do you know you are > approaching the limit of the duty cycle ? > It's typically over ten minutes. Twenty-five percent would mean 2.5 minutes on, 7.5 off. When you exceed the duty cycle, the machine overheats. There's typically some sort of overheating protection, though it's best to not get to the point where it trips in. Note that most machines are rated at their maximum output, and have a much higher duty cycle at lower output. My mig has a 20% duty cycle at peak output, but 100% at about 50% power. Unless you're doing production fabrication, you're unlikely to need 100% duty cycle. You've got to set up the work, adjust things, etc. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From john__matthews at hotmail.com Sun Jul 29 18:47:41 2007 From: john__matthews at hotmail.com (john matthews) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 17:47:41 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic Message-ID: Hi, Any tips on getting ground squirels out of our attic? The exterminator guy put sticky traps up there but my wife doesn't like the idea of killing squirels. When we thought they were rats she was OK with it but now.... BTW, it's a tile roof in Arizona. The "attic" is really just a crawl space with blown in insulation so it's really hard to get around up there without destroying the ceiling. Also, it's really hot here this time of year so anything we could do without going up there would be good. TIA, John _________________________________________________________________ http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From john__matthews at hotmail.com Sun Jul 29 18:48:02 2007 From: john__matthews at hotmail.com (john matthews) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 17:48:02 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic Message-ID: Hi, Any tips on getting ground squirels out of our attic? The exterminator guy put sticky traps up there but my wife doesn't like the idea of killing squirels. When we thought they were rats she was OK with it but now.... BTW, it's a tile roof in Arizona. The "attic" is really just a crawl space with blown in insulation so it's really hard to get around up there without destroying the ceiling. Also, it's really hot here this time of year so anything we could do without going up there would be good. TIA, John _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Sun Jul 29 18:57:10 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:57:10 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46AD3766.1000801@hornesystemstx.com> John, Try to figure out where they are coming in. They generally go out for water and while they are out you can try to plug the hole they are getting in through. They don't like metal mesh, like the copper scrubbies, so you might try to secure one into the hole they are coming in through. Another thing to think about if you plug the hole and you still hear others in the attic is a live trap. Squirrels here in Texas love peanut butter or corn cobs. Either on the trap trigger does a great job. Just remember to check the trap each day so they can be gotten out before they croak! Peace, Pat Thusly spake john matthews: > Hi, > > Any tips on getting ground squirels out of our attic? The exterminator guy > put sticky traps up there but my wife doesn't like the idea of killing > squirels. When we thought they were rats she was OK with it but now.... > > BTW, it's a tile roof in Arizona. The "attic" is really just a crawl space > with blown in insulation so it's really hard to get around up there without > destroying the ceiling. Also, it's really hot here this time of year so > anything we could do without going up there would be good. > > TIA, > > John > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From nases at verizon.net Sun Jul 29 19:43:55 2007 From: nases at verizon.net (Phil Nase) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:43:55 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c7d24b$17ab7040$2f01a8c0@na.sjcount.com> Hi John, Tell your wife the squirrels are nothing but rats with fuzzy tails. Really they are just rodents and can cause a lot of trouble when in the home. I just got home from visiting my son in Phoenix. It was our first trip there and I can say that I've never been that warm before. Whew! In fact I just learned while visiting the Grand Canyon that, at least the squirrels there, can have fleas that carry the plague. Phil Nase Quakertown, PA http://home.comcast.net/~philnasecpa Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic Hi, Any tips on getting ground squirels out of our attic? The exterminator guy put sticky traps up there but my wife doesn't like the idea of killing squirels. When we thought they were rats she was OK with it but now.... BTW, it's a tile roof in Arizona. The "attic" is really just a crawl space with blown in insulation so it's really hard to get around up there without destroying the ceiling. Also, it's really hot here this time of year so anything we could do without going up there would be good. TIA, John From lspector at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 20:12:32 2007 From: lspector at gmail.com (Larry Spector) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:12:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <167503c10707291912rd0ef17bu2179c8e3fa69f236@mail.gmail.com> John, I went through this a couple of years ago. I tried to scare them out by going up into my attic and making lots of noise- then closing up the entry with hardware cloth (heavy duty wire screening). Unfortunately, there was still one left inside that had hidden while I closed off the hole! For that one, I went and rented a hav-a-hart trap and baited it with peanut butter. It took a couple of days, but eventually I caught him. What was interesting about it is that the ones that got shut out came back to lay on the roof and "cry" for the missing one! They're all out now, and haven't even tried to come back. -Larry On 7/29/07, john matthews wrote: > Hi, > > Any tips on getting ground squirels out of our attic? The exterminator guy > put sticky traps up there but my wife doesn't like the idea of killing > squirels. When we thought they were rats she was OK with it but now.... > > BTW, it's a tile roof in Arizona. The "attic" is really just a crawl space > with blown in insulation so it's really hard to get around up there without > destroying the ceiling. Also, it's really hot here this time of year so > anything we could do without going up there would be good. > > TIA, > > John From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Sun Jul 29 20:22:12 2007 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:22:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic References: Message-ID: <001801c7d250$70ca6f00$01347d80@XLH883> Hi John, The key here is to "let them out" to eat and drink, but not to let them back in. I like squirrels in the wild and do not want to poison them either. I took some sheet metal flashing and put a hinge on the top and nailed it over the opening. They can leave but cannot return. Once you are sure they all are out, permanently seal the opening (you do not want them dying in your attic, either). I also have used the ultrasonic "blasters" (about $30, run on a 9VDC battery) that will drive them out as well. best, doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "john matthews" To: Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 5:48 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic > Hi, > > Any tips on getting ground squirels out of our attic? The exterminator guy > put sticky traps up there but my wife doesn't like the idea of killing > squirels. When we thought they were rats she was OK with it but now.... > > BTW, it's a tile roof in Arizona. The "attic" is really just a crawl space > with blown in insulation so it's really hard to get around up there > without > destroying the ceiling. Also, it's really hot here this time of year so > anything we could do without going up there would be good. > > TIA, > > John > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://newlivehotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > dirtbeard at pacbell.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From schauss at worldnet.att.net Sun Jul 29 21:17:43 2007 From: schauss at worldnet.att.net (Peter Schauss) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:17:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070730031810.2D7BD187A69@autox.team.net> We had a similar problem with one or more raccoons when I was about 17, living near Chicago. The raccoons where apparently crawling through the 4" gap between the ground and the bottom of the siding, up through one of the square columns on the two outside corners, and into the attic. We tried to block off the gap between the bottom of the siding and the ground with rocks, but the raccoons simply pushed one of them to make an entrance. I built a small wooden frame, just large enough for one of the animals to go though and nailed a piece of aluminum foil to each side. I took an old extension cord and connected one wire to each piece of foil. We could tell where the raccoons were entering by their tracks in the snow, so I placed this frame there, and plugged in the cord. The following morning we found one of the rocks on the opposite side of the porch had been pushed aside with what appeared to be a good bit of force. We never heard from raccoons again. HTH, Peter Schauss > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces+schauss=worldnet.att.net at autox.team.net > [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+schauss=worldnet.att.net at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of john matthews > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 8:48 PM > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic > > Hi, > > Any tips on getting ground squirels out of our attic? The exterminator guy > put sticky traps up there but my wife doesn't like the idea of killing > squirels. When we thought they were rats she was OK with it but now.... > > BTW, it's a tile roof in Arizona. The "attic" is really just a crawl space > with blown in insulation so it's really hard to get around up there > without > destroying the ceiling. Also, it's really hot here this time of year so > anything we could do without going up there would be good. > > TIA, > > John From wmgilroy at gmail.com Mon Jul 30 01:25:07 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:25:07 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <441250190707300025m362fe04ar272775e174b3563d@mail.gmail.com> Squirrels are just rats with good genes. Tell the spouse that. On 7/29/07, john matthews wrote: > > Hi, > > Any tips on getting ground squirels out of our attic? The exterminator guy > put sticky traps up there but my wife doesn't like the idea of killing > squirels. When we thought they were rats she was OK with it but now.... > > BTW, it's a tile roof in Arizona. The "attic" is really just a crawl space > with blown in insulation so it's really hard to get around up there > without > destroying the ceiling. Also, it's really hot here this time of year so > anything we could do without going up there would be good. > > TIA, > > John > > _________________________________________________________________ > > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 > _______________________________________________ > wmgilroy at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > -- Vote for Team Death Trap at http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. From cak at dimebank.com Mon Jul 30 09:07:54 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic Message-ID: <200707301507.l6UF7r4l014682@moose.dimebank.com> > Squirrels are just rats with good genes. Tell the spouse that. Hee. I always heard it as good PR. Try mothballs to get them out.... From Tim.Mullen at ngc.com Mon Jul 30 10:41:05 2007 From: Tim.Mullen at ngc.com (Mullen, Tim) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:41:05 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Squirels in the attic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C2F69BA6FB69F43ABCDBCFFC282C7973475EB@XMBIL103.northgrum.com> I recently saw a show on TV (Dirty Jobs maybe?) that show them getting rid of squirrels. They attached metal mesh "trap" looking things to the entry/exits. They didn't trap the squirrels - they were one way paths. The squirrels could get out passing through the mesh "tunnel", but they were blocked from getting back in. They were installed for a few days (weeks?) then replace with permanent mesh to block any further passage. Tim Mullen From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 30 10:47:44 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Getting dog smell out of car? In-Reply-To: <072620072125.27250.46A9114900024FE400006A72220588448404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <387974.75727.qm@web608.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Remove the front seats, so you can remove the carpet, and wash it. Doug --- scott.hall at comcast.net wrote: > I just went through this. > > grass didn't work at all, baking soda didn't seem to > help much, and coffee might have worked, or it might > have just masked the unpleasant smell with the more > pleasant coffee smell. I'd do the baking soda and > coffee and time, which helped the most. > > scott From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 30 12:24:22 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welder term In-Reply-To: <000101c7d163$4cf6d200$4101a8c0@CARROOM> Message-ID: <696808.69529.qm@web607.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good, questions, but you will probably not get any straight answers from the manufacturers. If you weld too long, some overheat circuit breaker should pop. In my experience, it is very hard to exceed any reasonable duty cycle during hobbyist-type welding. You would have to have an unusual type of weld, such as a straight one several feet long on thick material. Doug --- Bob Nogueira wrote: > Could someone explain to me the term 'Duty Cycle" in > reference to MIG > welders? I figure it means how long you can weld > before having to stop and > allow the welder to recover but why is it expressed > as a percentage? > When they say the duty cycle is 25% does that mean > you can weld for 1 > minute and have to wait 3 minutes for the welder to > recover? What happens if > you exceed the Duty Cycle? What's the time frame? > How do you know you are > approaching the limit of the duty cycle ? From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 30 12:28:03 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welder term In-Reply-To: <000101c7d163$4cf6d200$4101a8c0@CARROOM> Message-ID: <79215.78016.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> While we're (I'm) on the subject: I get a chuckle from a compute printers' duty-cycle specs that say something like "5000 pages per month". does that mean if you have printed 5000 pages, and it's only the 25th of the month, you need to turn off the printer until the end of the month so it can rest? Doug From jniolon at bham.rr.com Mon Jul 30 13:21:28 2007 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (jniolon at bham.rr.com) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:21:28 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] welder duty cycle Message-ID: <6168501.267801185823288560.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web08-z01> Theoretically you're correct if you have a 25% duty cycle you can weld 1 minute out of 4. And, usually when you run up against the duty cycle wall, a thermal circuit breaker will kick. I also think it's hard for a 'hobbiest' to to hit that wall too often.. most times you run short beads then reposition or reclamp a new piece and weld again. One of my welders is a Hobart Handler 100 amp 'suitcase' welder. I have tripped mine a couple of times doing frame welding.... adding boxing plates or such with some pretty long beads... mostly you'll see a degradation in weld when the machine gets too hot... it just can't maintain the amperage and your quality will ebb. My Millermatic 200 will weld as long as you can stand it or till you run out of gas or wire. I don't think you can kill a Miller welder.. unless you drown it. It's rated at 100% duty cycle at about 1/2 amperage (100 a) I also think that wire machines are much more sensitive to duty cycle as the stick machines either gas or electric. I've seen the Miller bobcat 250s run nearly continuously with only pauses to change rods on big pipe or structural jobs.. They only rest when they change 'weldors' (the one holding the stinger). later John From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Jul 30 14:58:33 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:58:33 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welder term In-Reply-To: <79215.78016.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <000101c7d163$4cf6d200$4101a8c0@CARROOM> <79215.78016.qm@web603.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <030401c7d2ec$6433a710$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > I get a chuckle from a compute printers' duty-cycle > specs that say something like "5000 pages per month". > does that mean if you have printed 5000 pages, and > it's only the 25th of the month, you need to turn off > the printer until the end of the month so it can rest? No, it means that is the level of usage the printer is designed for. It's a way of putting a number on "light duty" vs "heavy duty". Printing 10,000 pages per month won't burn it up, it will just wear out sooner than expected (and possibly invalidate the warranty). Randall - who used to be responsible for printers that printed over 20,000 pages/month (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From doug at dougbraun.com Mon Jul 30 15:16:45 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welder term In-Reply-To: <030401c7d2ec$6433a710$6a5636cc@navcom.com> Message-ID: <249206.74918.qm@web609.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Randall wrote: > No, it means that is the level of usage the printer > is designed for. It's a > way of putting a number on "light duty" vs "heavy > duty". > > Printing 10,000 pages per month won't burn it up, it > will just wear out > sooner than expected (and possibly invalidate the > warranty). Of course, this brings up the question: how long is the printer "expected" to last? They never explicitly tell you that (for consumer stuff at least). I hope it's longer than the warranty period... From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Mon Jul 30 16:18:17 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:18:17 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welder term In-Reply-To: <249206.74918.qm@web609.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <030401c7d2ec$6433a710$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <249206.74918.qm@web609.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <032c01c7d2f7$87d58160$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > Of course, this brings up the question: how long > is the printer "expected" to last? They never > explicitly tell you that (for consumer stuff at > least). I hope it's longer than the warranty period... I don't know, but I suspect the warranty period is a large factor in the equation. You start with what percentage of failures under warranty is considered acceptable (which is usually very low but not zero) and work backwards from there. Randall (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From pulcher at killercomputing.com Tue Jul 31 13:09:38 2007 From: pulcher at killercomputing.com (Harold Pulcher) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:09:38 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] MIG welder term In-Reply-To: <249206.74918.qm@web609.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <249206.74918.qm@web609.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46AF88F2.50100@killercomputing.com> Doug Braun wrote: > > Of course, this brings up the question: how long > is the printer "expected" to last? They never > explicitly tell you that (for consumer stuff at > least). I hope it's longer than the warranty period... Usually the specs don't say how long the printer will last. The usually say how many pages between roller replacement and the such. I am sure for most of the info, you need to look pretty hard at the specs in the box. Maybe they will have them online. I believe that HP does a pretty good job of this. At least on their business level printers. I have a client that runs some much paper and has so many printers of the same type, they just have the replacement kits waiting on a shelf. Usually about once a month one of them comes up for replacement. Those replacement kits are pretty much like brakes. You replace the stuff that usually wears out. Harold From frerichs at tconl.com Tue Jul 31 14:24:39 2007 From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:24:39 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) In-Reply-To: <46AF88F2.50100@killercomputing.com> References: <249206.74918.qm@web609.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46AF88F2.50100@killercomputing.com> Message-ID: <005901c7d3b0$d4be88f0$6501a8c0@proteus457> Last place I worked at we had a couple of HP9000's (largest office printer HP made at the time) on which we were running 15,000 - 20,000 pages per day EACH. As Harold said, we kept a few maintenance kits on the shelf as each printer needed at least one kit per month. Occasionally something would break and we'd have to call an HP repairman. They'd just shake their head in amazement at the page count. I believe the warranty was something like 3 years or one million pages, whichever came first. Our printers hit a million pages after about 12 weeks. Mike Frerichs > -----Original Message----- > Usually the specs don't say how long the printer will last. The usually > say how many pages between roller replacement and the such. I am sure > for most of the info, you need to look pretty hard at the specs in the > box. Maybe they will have them online. I believe that HP does a pretty > good job of this. At least on their business level printers. > > I have a client that runs some much paper and has so many printers of > the same type, they just have the replacement kits waiting on a shelf. > Usually about once a month one of them comes up for replacement. > > Those replacement kits are pretty much like brakes. You replace the > stuff that usually wears out. > > Harold From doug at dougbraun.com Tue Jul 31 15:12:37 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) In-Reply-To: <005901c7d3b0$d4be88f0$6501a8c0@proteus457> Message-ID: <92878.61606.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Keep in mind that in my original posting, I was thinking of the $129 variety of printer... Doug --- Mike Frerichs wrote: > Last place I worked at we had a couple of HP9000's > (largest office printer > HP made at the time) on which we were running 15,000 > - 20,000 pages per day > EACH. As Harold said, we kept a few maintenance > kits on the shelf as each > printer needed at least one kit per month. > Occasionally something would > break and we'd have to call an HP repairman. They'd > just shake their head > in amazement at the page count. I believe the > warranty was something like 3 > years or one million pages, whichever came first. > Our printers hit a > million pages after about 12 weeks. > > Mike Frerichs From bobkegel at seanet.com Tue Jul 31 22:10:19 2007 From: bobkegel at seanet.com (Bob Kegel) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:10:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) In-Reply-To: <92878.61606.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> > Keep in mind that in my original posting, I was > thinking of the $129 variety of printer... In practice they last as long as the original ink cartridges, at which point you find it's cheaper to buy a new printer than to buy new ones. Bob K From jibjib at att.net Tue Jul 31 22:53:54 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:53:54 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) In-Reply-To: <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> References: <92878.61606.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> Message-ID: <063e01c7d3f7$f71c5340$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> >In practice they last as long as the original ink cartridges, at which point >you find it's cheaper to buy a new printer than to buy new ones. I used to be able to refill the inkjet cartridges and get good results, but now manufacturers like HP are selling smart cartridges that know when they are being reused and I have not been able to figure out how to get past the coding. Fortunately, we now have a LaserJet, so the inkjet is relegated to color only, which is an infrequent use in our home. Jack