From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Aug 1 08:11:43 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:11:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) In-Reply-To: <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> References: <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> Message-ID: <46B0949F.5000605@xxiii.com> Bob Kegel wrote: > In practice they last as long as the original ink cartridges, at which point > you find it's cheaper to buy a new printer than to buy new ones. Sorry, but that's not true. The greedy bums have taken to putting "starter" cartridges in the printers with only a fraction of the capacity (well, maybe 25%) of a new cartridge. The pricing is all structured so the printer package is at or below cost, and they make a killing on the refill carts'. Still, if you're stuck with an ink-jet, carts' are a better deal than a whole new unit. For color ink-jets, I always suggest you go into the printer's default settings (eg: ControlPanel -> Printers). The options you select there usually stick as the defaults. Set it to draft or economy mode and gray-scale or B&W only. The quality is OK for most stuff you do. When you really need quality or color, go into printer properties while in the application and bump up the settings; those should only stick for what you're currently working on. Most estimates for ink-jets is $0.10 - $0.25 page for B&W, and $0.80 - $1.00 for color, which is friggin' crazy. The best solution, if you can live with B&W is a small laser printer. I bought an HP 1200 4.5 years ago that the wife & I use quite a bit -- 9,500+ pages in that time. That would be way over $1,000 of ink, but the laser toner comes in at about $0.023 (just over 2 cents) per page. I'm on its 3rd toner cart at ~$60.00/ea. The HP 1200 or 1300 can be had on ebay for < $100 used. -Wayne From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Wed Aug 1 08:33:01 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:33:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) In-Reply-To: <063e01c7d3f7$f71c5340$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> References: <92878.61606.qm@web610.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> <063e01c7d3f7$f71c5340$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <46B0999D.6060302@hornesystemstx.com> Jack, Check out the web site for your printer manufacturer to see if there s a way to reset the counter. I've used a number of printers that remember the last, say 5, cartridge serial numbers, so if you rotate more than that number of cartridges it will not see them as empty. I think I remember that HP has a way of resetting the serial number memory when you do some combination of button presses. I found this in the section of the web site that has the service information in it. It would be used by repair shops to clear out the fact that they rotated some combination of cartridges through the printer. I also had a bulk ink system on a Canon printer that would report low cartridges, but the chip they put in the set up would revert to "full" before it got to where the printer would not print thinking it was out of ink. Worked great until one of the ink cartridges plugged up and I burned up the print head trying to get it to print correctly. Bulk ink systems are a lot less trouble and mess than refilling cartridges! I don't have these printers any more, so I don't have the specific information any more. Sorry. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Jack Brooks: >> In practice they last as long as the original ink cartridges, at which >> > point > >> you find it's cheaper to buy a new printer than to buy new ones. >> > > I used to be able to refill the inkjet cartridges and get good results, but > now manufacturers like HP are selling smart cartridges that know when they > are being reused and I have not been able to figure out how to get past the > coding. Fortunately, we now have a LaserJet, so the inkjet is relegated to > color only, which is an infrequent use in our home. > > Jack > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 08:58:03 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:58:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) In-Reply-To: <46B0949F.5000605@xxiii.com> References: <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> <46B0949F.5000605@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40708010758u4eea129doc488ffda5212fbd6@mail.gmail.com> On 8/1/07, Wayne wrote: > > Most estimates for ink-jets is $0.10 - $0.25 page for B&W, and $0.80 - $1.00 for color, which is friggin' crazy. > > The best solution, if you can live with B&W is a small laser printer. I bought an HP 1200 4.5 years ago that the wife & I use quite a bit -- 9,500+ pages in that time. That would be way over $1,000 of ink, but the laser toner comes in at about $0.023 (just over 2 cents) per page. I'm on its 3rd toner cart at ~$60.00/ea. > > The HP 1200 or 1300 can be had on ebay for < $100 used. Brother are making some very nice small B&W lasers these days. Much better made than the low end HP crap. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Aug 1 09:18:17 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 11:18:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40708010758u4eea129doc488ffda5212fbd6@mail.gmail.com> References: <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> <46B0949F.5000605@xxiii.com> <2400a5d40708010758u4eea129doc488ffda5212fbd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46B0A439.2050301@xxiii.com> David Scheidt wrote: > Brother are making some very nice small B&W lasers these days. Much > better made than the low end HP crap. I don't care for Brother's stuff, because I've found their drivers to be flaky and the consumables expensive. I'm not sure what you mean by "low end HP crap". In the 90s, HP intentionally "crippled" their personal-sized printers, and some were real clunkers (eg: the 4P). Annoying crap like 50 sheet paper drawers, and other things to dissuade them from larger scale use, and from scavenging their expensive printers' market share. Even worse, some force the PC and driver to do the vector to rasterization of PCL and then dribble it to the printer bit by bit, like most cheap ink jets. The 1200 I mentioned however, has a full 8MB, 90MHz processor, 250 page tray, decent manual feed tray, real PCL5, PCL5 and PostScript (PostScript was a really expensive option not too many years ago, so it was nice in a $350 2002 unit) And 15ppm. I've found it to be a real solid little printer, with cheap consumables, and you can find them all over Ebay for cheap [search "hp (1200,1300)"] I don't know much about HP's current personal sized laserjets. I also see a bunch of old mid-range HP work horses, like the 5 or 4000 series on CraigsList for cheap; just beware of excessively high page counts. -Wayne From doug at dougbraun.com Wed Aug 1 09:51:34 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers In-Reply-To: <46B0A439.2050301@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <908060.45715.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a 1320, which has a network interface, duplex printing and Postscript. It has worked just great for the last couple of years. My only complaint is that in duplex mode it always runs the paper through twice, even of only one side is actually getting anything printed on it. It is also fairly compact and less ugly than many printers. Doug --- Wayne wrote: > David Scheidt wrote: > > Brother are making some very nice small B&W lasers > these days. Much > > better made than the low end HP crap. > > I don't care for Brother's stuff, because I've found > their drivers to be flaky and the consumables > expensive. > > I'm not sure what you mean by "low end HP crap". In > the 90s, HP intentionally "crippled" their > personal-sized printers, and some were real clunkers > (eg: the 4P). Annoying crap like 50 sheet paper > drawers, and other things to dissuade them from > larger scale use, and from scavenging their > expensive printers' market share. Even worse, some > force the PC and driver to do the vector to > rasterization of PCL and then dribble it to the > printer bit by bit, like most cheap ink jets. > > The 1200 I mentioned however, has a full 8MB, 90MHz > processor, 250 page tray, decent manual feed tray, > real PCL5, PCL5 and PostScript (PostScript was a > really expensive option not too many years ago, so > it was nice in a $350 2002 unit) And 15ppm. I've > found it to be a real solid little printer, with > cheap consumables, and you can find them all over > Ebay for cheap [search "hp (1200,1300)"] > > I don't know much about HP's current personal sized > laserjets. > > I also see a bunch of old mid-range HP work horses, > like the 5 or 4000 series on CraigsList for cheap; > just beware of excessively high page counts. > > -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > doug at dougbraun.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From cak at dimebank.com Wed Aug 1 10:28:23 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 09:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) Message-ID: <200708011628.l71GSNSt012606@moose.dimebank.com> Back in the old days, Xerox leased or sold their copiers way below cost in order to get the paper and toner business. Nothing has changed. Printers are cheap. Supplies are where they make their money. From jibjib at att.net Wed Aug 1 17:45:18 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:45:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) In-Reply-To: <46B0949F.5000605@xxiii.com> References: <000601c7d3f1$e7296fa0$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> <46B0949F.5000605@xxiii.com> Message-ID: <06b801c7d496$0522fb30$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Exactly! We have an older HP 4050-TN, which is fast, cheap and duplexes if needed, for our grunt work printing (Realtor wife and kids). We use one of those cartridge consuming inkjet color printers for Realtor wife's brochures and very occasional kids printing. Like Wayne, the inkjet is set to default B&W only and in draft mode. It works great. Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:12 AM To: 'Shop-Talk List' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Printers (was MIG welder term) Bob Kegel wrote: > In practice they last as long as the original ink cartridges, at which > point you find it's cheaper to buy a new printer than to buy new ones. Sorry, but that's not true. The greedy bums have taken to putting "starter" cartridges in the printers with only a fraction of the capacity (well, maybe 25%) of a new cartridge. The pricing is all structured so the printer package is at or below cost, and they make a killing on the refill carts'. Still, if you're stuck with an ink-jet, carts' are a better deal than a whole new unit. For color ink-jets, I always suggest you go into the printer's default settings (eg: ControlPanel -> Printers). The options you select there usually stick as the defaults. Set it to draft or economy mode and gray-scale or B&W only. The quality is OK for most stuff you do. When you really need quality or color, go into printer properties while in the application and bump up the settings; those should only stick for what you're currently working on. Most estimates for ink-jets is $0.10 - $0.25 page for B&W, and $0.80 - $1.00 for color, which is friggin' crazy. The best solution, if you can live with B&W is a small laser printer. I bought an HP 1200 4.5 years ago that the wife & I use quite a bit -- 9,500+ pages in that time. That would be way over $1,000 of ink, but the laser toner comes in at about $0.023 (just over 2 cents) per page. I'm on its 3rd toner cart at ~$60.00/ea. The HP 1200 or 1300 can be had on ebay for < $100 used. -Wayne _______________________________________________ jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From eltonclark at gmail.com Wed Aug 1 20:18:04 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:18:04 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers In-Reply-To: <908060.45715.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <46B0A439.2050301@xxiii.com> <908060.45715.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: *My newish Epson CX 3810 all-in-one has a particularly annoying characteristic: After I loaded my favorite cheapass ink, it bitches at me before every print job that I have "non-Epson" ink loaded and asks if I'd like to abort and buy Epson ink . . . Sheeeeesh!* From dirtbeard at pacbell.net Wed Aug 1 22:40:15 2007 From: dirtbeard at pacbell.net (old dirtbeard) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:40:15 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers References: <46B0A439.2050301@xxiii.com><908060.45715.qm@web612.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002901c7d4bf$39085d40$10357d80@XLH883> Hi guys,. Best home printer I had for its time was an IBM 4019 Laser Printer. Bought one in 1991 and it died this year after many hundreds of thousands pages. It truly is the cost per page by the number of pages plus the purchase price of the printer factored by the life of the printer that determines the cost of a printer. The same comparison can be made for buying a cheap 60% efficient furnace versus the price of 95% efficient furnace over the life of the furnace. If you don't need a furnace, buy the cheap furnace. But if you are going to print, buy an "efficient" printer. I am really impressed, though, with a new solid ink printer (not an ink jet, not a laser) I bought a few months ago: Xerox Phaser 8560N 30 pages per minute BW or color, lowest cost per page on consumables of any printer I could locate, no toner cartridges to try to recycle, etc. You just drop in what looks like wax crayon "clumps" and off it goes. I am responsible for an $8M/yr. IT budget and have found that: - current B/W HP laser printers are competitive on a cost per page basis with most manufacturers - current color HP laser printers are competitive on a cost per page basis with most manufacturers when printing color - current color HP laser printers are not competitive on a cost per page basis with most manufacturers when printing B/W (they blend in color toner to print B/W -- they say it is because it keeps the toner refreshed) - I cannot speak yet of the reliability for the solid ink Xerox Phaser, but if it is performs as marketed, it will be the cheapest, fastest printer you can own (so far I love it, it looks like offset print) - no matter what you do, ink jets are the most costly printer per page to own. If you never need to print, buy an ink jet -- only then is it a bargain.The truly have become a ponzi scheme. "I'll give you the printer and I an only want your first-born child." I apologize, but they are like cancer -- once they get in you operations, they eat you alive with the consumables and need so much attention refilling,etc. >From an IT guy, buy a decent laser or one of Xerox's new solid ink cartridge printers and print away. best, doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" To: "Doug Braun" Cc: "Shop-Talk List" Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Printers > *My newish Epson CX 3810 all-in-one has a particularly annoying > characteristic: After I loaded my favorite cheapass ink, it bitches at me > before every print job that I have "non-Epson" ink loaded and asks if I'd > like to abort and buy Epson ink . . . Sheeeeesh!* > _______________________________________________ > dirtbeard at pacbell.net > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Aug 2 12:16:39 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (tr3driver at ca.rr.com) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:16:39 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Printers Message-ID: <26787874.1186078599063.JavaMail.root@web38> ---- old dirtbeard wrote: > - current color HP laser printers are not competitive on a cost per > page basis with most manufacturers when printing B/W (they blend in color > toner to print B/W -- they say it is because it keeps the toner refreshed) That's interesting, Doug. I quit my job as head of IT; but when I looked into it back then, the HP "low cost" color laser we bought was actually cheaper per page (when including toner and recommended maintenance) than our other HP B/W lasers. But it was a lot slower, so it still didn't get used much for B&W. The color unit was the only one where you just added toner when it was low, instead of changing a cartridge that included print drum, etc. > - no matter what you do, ink jets are the most costly printer per page > to own. If you never need to print, buy an ink jet I agree, but only taking "never" as a relative term. At home, I burn less than a ream of paper per year; which makes an ink spitter very cost effective for me. Randall From TR3A at att.net Thu Aug 2 17:50:09 2007 From: TR3A at att.net (Susan and Jack) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:50:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Anode for compressor Message-ID: <073201c7d55f$dcf19de0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> I have an old magnesium hot water heater anode that has the top third eaten away. The bottom two thirds are in decent shape. I'm debating trimming off the excess (formerly internal) steel rod and top fittings and dropping it into my horizontal, 30 gallon compressor tank. My thought is that the long rod will settle along the bottom of the tank in good contact with a significant length of the tank, protecting the tank from internal rust. While I do drain the tank regularly, I figure the addition of the magnesium anode rod can only help, there should be no downside. Does this make sense or is it a waste of time? Thanks in advance, Jack . From jibjib at att.net Thu Aug 2 17:50:56 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:50:56 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Anode for compressor Message-ID: <073701c7d55f$f8eba270$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> I have an old magnesium hot water heater anode that has the top third eaten away. The bottom two thirds are in decent shape. I'm debating trimming off the excess (formerly internal) steel rod and top fittings and dropping it into my horizontal, 30 gallon compressor tank. My thought is that the long rod will settle along the bottom of the tank in good contact with a significant length of the tank, protecting the tank from internal rust. While I do drain the tank regularly, I figure the addition of the magnesium anode rod can only help, there should be no downside. Does this make sense or is it a waste of time? Thanks in advance, Jack From clab at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 4 18:01:35 2007 From: clab at bellsouth.net (Chadwick E. Labno) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 20:01:35 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] soapbox wildcard Message-ID: <46B5135F.3040000@bellsouth.net> What happen to the redbull soapbox web site? went to vote and it's gone. voting over? who won? From strovato at optonline.net Sun Aug 5 10:45:23 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 12:45:23 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] disassemble a light bulb? In-Reply-To: <46B5135F.3040000@bellsouth.net> References: <46B5135F.3040000@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <0JMB002957VTXG20@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> OK, time for Steve's strange question of the day. I am interested in making some light bulbs, by taking a standard light bulb base and grafting other size/style bulbs or LEDs onto them. These are mostly small automotive type bulbs. Light bulb bases are probably available somewhere, but you probably have to buy them by the trailer load. For my use, it would probably be best to just start with a bulb and remove the glass from the base. So far, I have done this, but it is rather labor intensive. It involves breaking the glass and lots of mechanical picking to clean out the base. Does anyone have any other ideas for how to break down that cement stuff to end up with a clean base? I have pulled really old bulbs out of cars where that cement was just crumbling. Apparently, light bulb manufacture has improved and they use better cement now. Thanks. -Steven Trovato strovato at optonline.net From strovato at optonline.net Sun Aug 5 11:10:47 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:10:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] disassemble a light bulb? In-Reply-To: <200708051659.l75Gx7FP010491@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200708051659.l75Gx7FP010491@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <0JMB008CZ91XHX30@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Yes, I know. I want to be able to put together combinations of things that aren't available. And besides, half the stuff people on this list do is make things that they could buy ready-made. But where's the fun in that? So far my web searching seems to be mostly turning up ways to turn light bulbs into meth pipes. It seems that most tweakers recommend heating it with a torch. Maybe I'll give that a try. Never can tell where you'll get useful information! At 12:59 PM 8/5/2007, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: >You know that you can buy automotive bulbs with LEDs, right? :-) From wmgilroy at gmail.com Sun Aug 5 11:37:53 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:37:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] soapbox wildcard In-Reply-To: <46B5135F.3040000@bellsouth.net> References: <46B5135F.3040000@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <441250190708051037i39997b7cp3068020ccfbf830b@mail.gmail.com> Vote ends this August 8th. Their site is down due to a software error. I expect that it will be fixed on Monday. -g PS. Thanks for voting On 8/4/07, Chadwick E. Labno wrote: > > What happen to the redbull soapbox web site? > went to vote and it's gone. voting over? who won? > _______________________________________________ > wmgilroy at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > -- Vote for Team Death Trap at http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. From cak at dimebank.com Sun Aug 5 11:58:59 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 10:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] dishwasher repair Message-ID: <200708051758.l75Hwxc5032687@moose.dimebank.com> We have an old GE dishwashe; it's been cleaning poorly for 6-8 months. I did a bunch of work on it (replacing dead/missing seals) that got the internal water pressure up considerably, but it still doesn't work very well. Yesterday we got fed up and decided to replace it :-) So ... I'm left with an almost new "Step by Step Dishwasher Repair Manual" for GE/Hotpoint dishwashers. If anyone on the list would like it, let me know and I'll stuff it in an envelope for you. BEst, chris From brabel at dlux.net Sun Aug 5 14:45:55 2007 From: brabel at dlux.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:45:55 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] disassemble a light bulb? In-Reply-To: <0JMB002957VTXG20@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <46B5135F.3040000@bellsouth.net> <0JMB002957VTXG20@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <15393F2A-3B83-4C31-B28C-8EAA3004E88D@dlux.net> An average hardware store should have screw-in adapters that have two- conductor plug sockets in the end. These are used to plug cords into a lamp socket. These could probably be disassembled for your purposes. Also, I have seen a fairly broad line of LED lamps at a marine store in Seattle, with screw-in bases, bayonet bases, pin bases, and a number of lighting configurations. > Light bulb bases are probably available > somewhere, but you probably have to buy them by the trailer > load. - Bill Rabel Anacortes, WA From doug at dougbraun.com Sun Aug 5 17:57:02 2007 From: doug at dougbraun.com (Doug Braun) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 16:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] dishwasher repair In-Reply-To: <200708051758.l75Hwxc5032687@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <341737.84476.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What did you replace it with? We have a GE dishwasher that has many annoyances, like the wheels that fall off the bottom rack every time you pull it out, and we are thinking of replacing it. I looked at the current GE models in the store and I was not very impressed. Did you hear about the GE dishwasher recall? Certain models (ours included) had a problem where rinse aid fluid could leak down inside the door and dissolve some wiring insulation. You can get a $150 to $300 rebate on a new GE dishwasher simply by sending them the serial number tag from the old one. Doug --- Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > We have an old GE dishwashe; it's been cleaning > poorly for 6-8 months. > I did a bunch of work on it (replacing dead/missing > seals) that > got the internal water pressure up considerably, but > it still doesn't > work very well. > > Yesterday we got fed up and decided to replace it > :-) From dhlocker at comcast.net Sun Aug 5 18:10:21 2007 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:10:21 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] dishwasher repair In-Reply-To: <341737.84476.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <341737.84476.qm@web615.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46B666ED.5090903@comcast.net> I was e-talking to Chris - I replaced mine with a Freecycle Maytag that beats the snot out of the GE "top of the line" (according to Consumer Reports; but that's another story.) That GE was a real piece of junk. As was the refrigerator, stove, and microwave oven that we bought at the same time (about 1992.) [anyone who wants to know what I repaired and/or replaced on the various units is welcome to send me an email; I'll respond next weekend.] Donald. Doug Braun wrote: > What did you replace it with? > > We have a GE dishwasher that has many annoyances, like > the wheels that fall off the bottom rack every time > you pull it out, and we are thinking of replacing it. > I looked at the current GE models in the store and I > was not very impressed. > > Did you hear about the GE dishwasher recall? Certain > models (ours included) had a problem where rinse aid > fluid could leak down inside the door and dissolve > some wiring insulation. You can get a $150 to $300 > rebate on a new GE dishwasher simply by sending them > the serial number tag from the old one. > > Doug From cak at dimebank.com Sun Aug 5 19:47:21 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 18:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] dishwasher repair Message-ID: <200708060147.l761lLIG026593@moose.dimebank.com> Thanks for the responses - the book is spoken for. We're replacing with a Whirlpool. I'm a little apprehensive about all the electronics, but I figure I'll put a surge suppressor on the plug :-) One of the deciding factors was whether or not our wine glasses fit properly - the top racks are all different! We'll see... From paul.mele at usermail.com Mon Aug 6 10:10:00 2007 From: paul.mele at usermail.com (paul mele) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:10:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] dishwasher repair In-Reply-To: <200708060147.l761lLIG026593@moose.dimebank.com> References: <200708060147.l761lLIG026593@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <<< all the electronics, but I figure I'll put a surge suppressor on the plug :-)>>> [paul mele] Put a whole-house surge suppressor in your breaker box From jibjib at att.net Mon Aug 6 22:11:53 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 21:11:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor Message-ID: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Wow, I've never published a post that got absolutely no responses. Does this mean I've stumped the Borg??? I'm going to assume that this does not mean dropping a partial hot water heater anode into my compressor tank is foolish and proceed at my next opportunity. Later, Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:50 PM To: 'Shop-Talk List' Subject: [Shop-talk] Anode for compressor I have an old magnesium hot water heater anode that has the top third eaten away. The bottom two thirds are in decent shape. I'm debating trimming off the excess (formerly internal) steel rod and top fittings and dropping it into my horizontal, 30 gallon compressor tank. My thought is that the long rod will settle along the bottom of the tank in good contact with a significant length of the tank, protecting the tank from internal rust. While I do drain the tank regularly, I figure the addition of the magnesium anode rod can only help, there should be no downside. Does this make sense or is it a waste of time? Thanks in advance, Jack . _______________________________________________ jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From rusd at sitestar.net Mon Aug 6 23:03:45 2007 From: rusd at sitestar.net (Dave & M) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 23:03:45 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor References: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <46B7FD31.5060102@sitestar.net> Jack, Not stumped - just waiting for someone else to explain it. For a sacrificial anode to work, it must be well connected electrically to the object that it is protecting. The two metals actually form a small battery with the water acting as the electrolyte. A small current must flow between the two metals. So - You need a good electrical connection between anode & air tank, & also an electrolyte. In the original water heater, the anode is securely connected to the tank & there is plenty of water (electrolyte), I don't really see how you would accomplish this without a lot of water in the tank, etc. Regards, Dave Russell Jack Brooks wrote: > Wow, I've never published a post that got absolutely no responses. > Does this mean I've stumped the Borg??? > > I'm going to assume that this does not mean dropping a partial hot > water heater anode into my compressor tank is foolish and proceed > at my next opportunity. > > Later, > > Jack From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 7 00:08:24 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (tr3driver at ca.rr.com) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 23:08:24 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor Message-ID: <10103711.1186466904666.JavaMail.root@web25> ---- Jack Brooks wrote: > Wow, I've never published a post that got absolutely no responses. Does > this mean I've stumped the Borg??? Well I was certainly speechless ... doubt like hell it will help (as already explained) but don't see why it would hurt either. Be sure to send us reports from your 5 year mission ! Randall From wmc_st at xxiii.com Tue Aug 7 07:49:52 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:49:52 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor In-Reply-To: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> References: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <46B87880.6030809@xxiii.com> Jack Brooks wrote: > I'm going to assume that this does not mean dropping a partial hot water > heater anode into my compressor tank is foolish and proceed at my next I agree with the other guy, that it has to be electrically coupled to the tank. Personally, I think it would make a better sparkler. Maybe there will be something celebrate next 7/4. -Wayne From mbarre at juno.com Tue Aug 7 08:49:47 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:49:47 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor Message-ID: <20070807.064947.18697.0@webmail31.lax.untd.com> Wouldn't the moisture in the tank provide the electrolyte and the rod laying in contact with the tank provide the connection. I realize eventually that the interface would be subject to corrosion, but then isn't that true of every connection to some degree. Matt -- Dave & M wrote: For a sacrificial anode to work, it must be well connected electrically to the object that it is protecting. The two metals actually form a small battery with the water acting as the electrolyte. A small current must flow between the two metals. So - You need a good electrical connection between anode & air tank, & also an electrolyte. From cak at dimebank.com Tue Aug 7 09:05:56 2007 From: cak at dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 08:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor Message-ID: <200708071505.l77F5u3j031940@moose.dimebank.com> The typical method for hanging an anode in a radiator is to make a thin sheet of brass that fits the filler neck, under the cap. Then hang the anode by some braided wire into the coolant. From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Aug 7 09:38:08 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:38:08 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Anode for compressor References: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <00bd01c7d908$f4e3bd00$6e01a8c0@KARL> > I'm going to assume that this does not mean dropping a partial hot water > heater anode into my compressor tank is foolish and proceed at my next > opportunity. Sounds possible that it'd help. Why not ensure the connection by drilling a brass contact bolt through an end cap and wire it to the anode with a long braided wire as Kai suggested ? Maybe some silicone grease on the contact spots to make sure the connection stays good. I've always scoffed at compressor tank corrosion as I've been lucky and never have had a rust problem with my pre-WWII compressor tank. However, I recently got my 1977 2-HP compressor back from an extended loan (22 years). It was nearly new when I loaned it out. When I got it back I dug and flushed about 10 double handfuls of black muck out of the tank - all rust. And the interior is badly pitted. I phosphated it to stop the corrosion for now, but I'm still not sure I really want to even test it. Karl From strovato at optonline.net Tue Aug 7 09:52:08 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:52:08 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Anode for compressor In-Reply-To: <073201c7d55f$dcf19de0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> References: <073201c7d55f$dcf19de0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <0JME00JGWURGBC80@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> The only thing I have to add, as far as possible downside, is that maybe the rod will bounce around in there from vibration and add to the noise level when running. -Steven Trovato strovato at optonline.net From arvidj at visi.com Tue Aug 7 09:59:09 2007 From: arvidj at visi.com (Arvid Jedlicka) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:59:09 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor References: <200708071505.l77F5u3j031940@moose.dimebank.com> Message-ID: <006501c7d90b$e3ece7d0$31631aac@behavioral.com> > The typical method for hanging an anode in a radiator is to make a thin > sheet of brass that fits the filler neck, under the cap. Then hang > the anode by some braided wire into the coolant. This and the other water heater descriptions may be the salient point - the electrode is totally emersed in the electrolyte and is separated from the tank by the electrolyte except at the one point - the top of the tank. Therefore the current flows from the electrode thru the electrolyte to the tank then back to the electrode at the single connection. A really spiffy battery. By simply laying the electrode in the bottom of the air tank the electrolyte separation of the electrode and the tank would seem to be severly compromised - you would simply have a damp piece of electrode lying in the bottom of the tank. Yes, we could then begin thinking about it as as millions of very small electrode - electrolyte - tank connection - batteries ... and are they in series or in parallel and ... My head is starting to hurt trying to work out where the current would flow. Arvid From kvacek at ameritech.net Tue Aug 7 11:04:16 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:04:16 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor References: <200708071505.l77F5u3j031940@moose.dimebank.com> <006501c7d90b$e3ece7d0$31631aac@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <002101c7d914$fd6868c0$6e01a8c0@KARL> > This and the other water heater descriptions may be the salient point - > the electrode is totally emersed in the electrolyte and is > separated from the tank by the electrolyte except at the one point - the > top of the tank. Therefore the current flows from the > electrode thru the electrolyte to the tank then back to the electrode at > the single connection. A really spiffy battery. Why not slip maybe 3-4 thin o-rings or similar around the rod to support is just above the bottom of the tank, and cover the ends of the rod so they can't contact the end-bells ? A galvanized-interior tank would be nice.... From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Tue Aug 7 12:10:03 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:10:03 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor In-Reply-To: <006501c7d90b$e3ece7d0$31631aac@behavioral.com> References: <200708071505.l77F5u3j031940@moose.dimebank.com> <006501c7d90b$e3ece7d0$31631aac@behavioral.com> Message-ID: <46B8B57B.5050106@hornesystemstx.com> It is probably not a correct assumption that the electrode needs to be separated from the tank except at one point. Outboard boat engines have blocks of zinc bolted tightly to the lower units to control deterioration of the aluminum parts. The sacrificial anode does not have to be separated from what it is protecting, but just connected to it. I believe that having the anode totally submerged would be helpful, but all that does is increase the surface area of the anode in contact with the electrolyte. Any contact will be better than none. I also agree that there should be a wire run from the anode to the tank to be sure that there is an electrical path. That anode rod will deteriorate and corrode over time, which will break the electrical connection to the tank. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Arvid Jedlicka: >> The typical method for hanging an anode in a radiator is to make a thin >> sheet of brass that fits the filler neck, under the cap. Then hang >> the anode by some braided wire into the coolant. >> > > This and the other water heater descriptions may be the salient point - the electrode is totally emersed in the electrolyte and is > separated from the tank by the electrolyte except at the one point - the top of the tank. Therefore the current flows from the > electrode thru the electrolyte to the tank then back to the electrode at the single connection. A really spiffy battery. > > By simply laying the electrode in the bottom of the air tank the electrolyte separation of the electrode and the tank would seem to > be severly compromised - you would simply have a damp piece of electrode lying in the bottom of the tank. Yes, we could then begin > thinking about it as as millions of very small electrode - electrolyte - tank connection - batteries ... and are they in series or > in parallel and ... My head is starting to hurt trying to work out where the current would flow. > > Arvid > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From jibjib at att.net Fri Aug 10 07:44:34 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:44:34 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor In-Reply-To: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> References: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <0b7901c7db54$972dde90$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Thanks for all of the responses. I do believe that having a solid connection to the tank has merit. I had not thought about that. While I'm not going to weld or bolt up to an certified tank, I'm looking at ways that I can attach the anode to the 2 inch (+/-) plug in the tank. It could then be screwed in. Yes, I am aware of how nicely Magnesium burns. We used to use it in the manufacture of 75 and 90mm artillery sabots and I happen to be near a milling machine when they ignited one. YIKES! Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:12 PM To: 'Shop-Talk List' Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor Wow, I've never published a post that got absolutely no responses. Does this mean I've stumped the Borg??? I'm going to assume that this does not mean dropping a partial hot water heater anode into my compressor tank is foolish and proceed at my next opportunity. Later, Jack -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+jibjib=att.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Jack Brooks Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:50 PM To: 'Shop-Talk List' Subject: [Shop-talk] Anode for compressor I have an old magnesium hot water heater anode that has the top third eaten away. The bottom two thirds are in decent shape. I'm debating trimming off the excess (formerly internal) steel rod and top fittings and dropping it into my horizontal, 30 gallon compressor tank. My thought is that the long rod will settle along the bottom of the tank in good contact with a significant length of the tank, protecting the tank from internal rust. While I do drain the tank regularly, I figure the addition of the magnesium anode rod can only help, there should be no downside. Does this make sense or is it a waste of time? Thanks in advance, Jack . _______________________________________________ jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk _______________________________________________ jibjib at att.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From rusd at sitestar.net Fri Aug 10 12:48:04 2007 From: rusd at sitestar.net (Dave & M) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:48:04 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor References: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> <0b7901c7db54$972dde90$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <46BCB2E4.8090601@sitestar.net> Jack, What are you going to use for electrolyte, fill the tank with water? Otherwise, it will be just like a battery with no electrolyte in it. Dave Russell Jack Brooks wrote: > Thanks for all of the responses. > > I do believe that having a solid connection to the tank has merit. I had > not thought about that. While I'm not going to weld or bolt up to an > certified tank, I'm looking at ways that I can attach the anode to the 2 > inch (+/-) plug in the tank. It could then be screwed in. > > Yes, I am aware of how nicely Magnesium burns. We used to use it in the > manufacture of 75 and 90mm artillery sabots and I happen to be near a > milling machine when they ignited one. YIKES! > > Jack From jniolon at bham.rr.com Fri Aug 10 19:33:01 2007 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 20:33:01 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] crown molding Message-ID: <00c301c7dbb7$8e565870$6401a8c0@niolon> here's a question for you wood working guys. I'm thinking of putting crown molding in a couple of rooms. one is the living room 18'x12' with 8' ceilings. Is there a proportional ratio between the ceiling height and the height of the crown molding. I see several sizes from 2.75 up to about 5" and then you can stack it for a really wide molding. I think with 8' ceilings you could overdo it on molding... also this will be my first attempt at crown so hints and suggestions are welcome. what do you trim carpenters think shop content...I will use my compound miter saw, finish nailer, air compressor and probably lots of caulk :-) thanks John Chinese Proverb When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. Pay it forward From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri Aug 10 20:23:37 2007 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (ejrussell at mebtel.net) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:23:37 -1200 Subject: [Shop-talk] crown molding Message-ID: <46bd1da9.3d0.50c.1832781535@ml2.myemail.com> > Is there a proportional ratio between the ceiling height > and the height of the crown molding. What ever looks good to your eye. > also this will be my first attempt at crown so hints and > suggestions are welcome. Cut the moulding upside down - i.e. place it in your mitre saw such that the top of the moulding in on the table of the saw (horizontal surface) and the wall edge is against the fence (vertical part). Plan your joints so that any slight imperfections are not visible from the 'entrance' of the room. Make the final joints/mitres in the least visible corner (say above/behind the 'entrance'). Eric Russell Mebane, NC Login from home, work, school. Anywhere! From jibjib at att.net Fri Aug 10 23:21:55 2007 From: jibjib at att.net (Jack Brooks) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:21:55 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor In-Reply-To: <46BCB2E4.8090601@sitestar.net> References: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> <0b7901c7db54$972dde90$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> <46BCB2E4.8090601@sitestar.net> Message-ID: <0c1c01c7dbd7$896c5ba0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Dave, No, I don't think so. If the anode is connected to the steel tank, the magnesium anode will react with the steel it is in contact with. I believe that the reaction will take place between the magnesium and the steel center rod it is formed around, instead of between the magnesium and the water. At least that's how it looks logically to me. Back to my initial logic. Putting the anode at the bottom of the tank, provides a long contact area, and any water at the bottom of the tank would provide that electrolyte. Now I am back to thinking. . . . . Which is better? Jack -----Original Message----- From: Dave & M [mailto:rusd at sitestar.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:48 AM To: Jack Brooks Cc: 'Shop-Talk List' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor Jack, What are you going to use for electrolyte, fill the tank with water? Otherwise, it will be just like a battery with no electrolyte in it. Dave Russell Jack Brooks wrote: > Thanks for all of the responses. > > I do believe that having a solid connection to the tank has merit. I > had not thought about that. While I'm not going to weld or bolt up to > an certified tank, I'm looking at ways that I can attach the anode to > the 2 inch (+/-) plug in the tank. It could then be screwed in. > > Yes, I am aware of how nicely Magnesium burns. We used to use it in > the manufacture of 75 and 90mm artillery sabots and I happen to be > near a milling machine when they ignited one. YIKES! > > Jack From rusd at sitestar.net Sat Aug 11 01:48:22 2007 From: rusd at sitestar.net (Dave & M) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 01:48:22 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] FW: Anode for compressor References: <095501c7d8a9$16d7e9f0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> <0b7901c7db54$972dde90$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> <46BCB2E4.8090601@sitestar.net> <0c1c01c7dbd7$896c5ba0$cb01a8c0@HPPavilion> Message-ID: <46BD69C6.6080405@sitestar.net> Jack, Not sure how to explain this. There will be no reaction between the magnesium & it's inner support core. Sacrificial anode -- The steel tank & the magnesium anode along with an electrolyte form a battery in which the magnesium is gradually consumed. For this to work, there must be a COMPLETED CURRENT PATH/LOOP between the two metals. One portion of the connection is the point where the tank & anode are physically joined. For a current to flow, there must be a completed circuit. It has to flow in a loop, electrically speaking. The other half of the electrical circuit is the current flowing between the steel tank & the anode through an electrolyte, in this case water. No electrolyte, no current, no protection. As originally intended, in the water heater, the anode is more or less centrally located, totally immersed in electrolyte, & the entire inner surface of the tank is protected. If you lay the anode in the bottom of the tank & it is immersed in water, a protective current would flow between the anode & tank through the water. There would be no current flow between the portion of the tank & anode that did not have the electrolyte (water) between them. So yes, the very bottom of the tank might be protected but not the remaining 99%. The key is a complete current flow path, tank - electrolyte - anode - tank to anode connection. Personally I would rather drain the tank & keep it dry instead of intentionally leaving water in the tank in hopes that the anode might provide a bit of protection. Regards, Dave Jack Brooks wrote: > Dave, > > No, I don't think so. > > If the anode is connected to the steel tank, the magnesium anode > will react with the steel it is in contact with. I believe that > the reaction will take place between the magnesium and the steel > center rod it is formed around, instead of between the magnesium > and the water. At least that's how it looks logically to me. > > Back to my initial logic. > > Putting the anode at the bottom of the tank, provides a long > contact area, and any water at the bottom of the tank would provide > that electrolyte. > > Now I am back to thinking. . . . . Which is better? > > Jack > > -----Original Message----- From: Dave & M > [mailto:rusd at sitestar.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:48 AM > To: Jack Brooks Cc: 'Shop-Talk List' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] FW: > Anode for compressor > > Jack, > > What are you going to use for electrolyte, fill the tank with > water? Otherwise, it will be just like a battery with no > electrolyte in it. > > Dave Russell > > Jack Brooks wrote: > >> Thanks for all of the responses. >> >> I do believe that having a solid connection to the tank has >> merit. I had not thought about that. While I'm not going to >> weld or bolt up to an certified tank, I'm looking at ways that I >> can attach the anode to the 2 inch (+/-) plug in the tank. It >> could then be screwed in. >> >> Yes, I am aware of how nicely Magnesium burns. We used to use it >> in the manufacture of 75 and 90mm artillery sabots and I happen >> to be near a milling machine when they ignited one. YIKES! >> >> Jack From strovato at optonline.net Sat Aug 11 21:32:56 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:32:56 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] disassemble a light bulb? In-Reply-To: <0JMB002957VTXG20@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <46B5135F.3040000@bellsouth.net> <0JMB002957VTXG20@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0JMN00HFV5UXTSH0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Thank you all for your ideas. Yes, I know people sell LED bulbs. I wanted to do some non-standard things. I am talking about small automotive bulbs, so the hardware store stuff for table lamps is a little too big. And I can't knock out the black ring in the bottom. I kind of need that when I put them together. I have concluded that heat is helpful if I don't get too carried away with it. Also, the stuff is strong, but it is brittle, so I've had more success with a sharp blow than a lot of gouging. There doesn't seem to be any magic solution, but with a little practice, I can do a few for a little experimenting. So, I just wanted to sum this up before asking my next question. Stay tuned... From strovato at optonline.net Sat Aug 11 21:43:34 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:43:34 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Bad gasoline In-Reply-To: <0JMB002957VTXG20@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <46B5135F.3040000@bellsouth.net> <0JMB002957VTXG20@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <0JMN00HR86ECTSH0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> When gasoline is way too old, it leaves a varnish like deposit behind and turns into this noxious substance that smells like... well, bad gasoline. Now of course if this varnish clogs up jets and orifices, an engine will not run. And when the gasoline gets funky enough, it doesn't have enough of whatever it takes to make an engine run either. So, my question is, does this stuff do an engine any harm if it is mixed with good gas in whatever ratio it takes to make an engine go? I guess I don't care if performance is impacted somewhat, as long as no lasting damage is done. I've heard the "I never do that" answers, and the "I always do that, and nothing bad happens" answers. I was hoping we have a lurking petroleum expert who could add some facts. Thanks. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Sun Aug 12 08:12:33 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:12:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] crown molding In-Reply-To: <00c301c7dbb7$8e565870$6401a8c0@niolon> References: <00c301c7dbb7$8e565870$6401a8c0@niolon> Message-ID: <46BF1551.5090405@hornesystemstx.com> John, Eric is correct, cut the crown upside down and things will be much easier. Corners of walls, whether inside or outside corners are rarely square, so use some scrap pieces of crown to mock up the corners and adjust the cuts to be really tight. I prefer to cope inside corners. Coping runs one side of the corner all the way to the wall, then cut away the back side of the intersecting piece so that it fits the profile of the long piece. This allows for a couple of things. If the corner is not square, there is enough leeway to not have to fine tune the cuts. Secondly, with humidity changes the coped joint will not open up as much as a mitered joint. The easy way to determine the cope line is to cut the end of the crown at a 45 deg, as you would for a mitered joint. Where the flat 45 deg end meets the face of the trim will be the line you need to follow. Try it on some scrap to determine how much back cut you need to do to get the crown to match up. It sounds a bit difficult, but it goes fast. Peace, Pat Thusly spake john niolon: > here's a question for you wood working guys. I'm thinking of putting crown > molding in a couple of rooms. one is the living room 18'x12' > with 8' ceilings. > > Is there a proportional ratio between the ceiling height and the height of > the crown molding. > > I see several sizes from 2.75 up to about 5" and then you can stack it for a > really wide molding. > > I think with 8' ceilings you could overdo it on molding... > > also this will be my first attempt at crown so hints and suggestions are > welcome. > > what do you trim carpenters think > > shop content...I will use my compound miter saw, finish nailer, air > compressor and probably lots of caulk :-) > > thanks > John > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From mark at noakes.com Sun Aug 12 20:01:22 2007 From: mark at noakes.com (mark at noakes.com) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 02:01:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Shop-talk] summary burnt smell in house Message-ID: <22487946.1186970482487.JavaMail.?@fh1063.dia.cp.net> Since I haven't smelled the burnt smell in the house I reported earlier, I guess I can make a summary statement for now. It appears that it was a mix of several things at once...one of which was not good but I'm not sure that it would have really caused a fire or anything. First, I completely cleaned out the fireplace as well as possible, then I got rid of my wife's favorite scented candles, and then I went through most of the outlets and switches in the rooms where the problem was showing up. I found a dimmer switch that was going bad that was to the point of either all on or off...the dimmer part had failed and it was running hot whenever the light was on. Many of the outlets had dust and cob webs in them as well, and I cleaned them up. With any serious humidity, a short could have occurred there and been a problem. So I think the main problem was the dimmer with some confusing odor masking coming from the fireplace now cleaned up and the darn candles now relegated to the exercise room. Mark Noakes From berry at kerch.com Tue Aug 14 07:38:23 2007 From: berry at kerch.com (Berry Kercheval) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 06:38:23 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] crown molding In-Reply-To: <46BF1551.5090405@hornesystemstx.com> References: <00c301c7dbb7$8e565870$6401a8c0@niolon> <46BF1551.5090405@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <46C1B04F.7070904@kerch.com> Pat Horne wrote: > I prefer to cope inside corners. One thing you can do is cut away part of the molding *behind* the coped cut, making the coped end of the moding "sharp". That way, if the cut is a bit off when you try to fit it, it's simple to adjust with a utility knife instead of taking it back down the ladder to the saw. From darmstrong at nexicom.net Wed Aug 15 11:04:35 2007 From: darmstrong at nexicom.net (Apache) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:04:35 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping Message-ID: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> I am planning to install an airline system in my garage in a few weeks. A while back it was suggested to run the horizontal loop of the system up in the roof trusses. I like this idea because it cleans up the clutter and allows for easy fixturing to the trusses to get proper slopes for water drainage. Does anyone have any comments on how this would work in the winter where the temperature will mostly / always be below freezing? I have a drywalled ceiling, so it will stay cold in the roof trusses. Since the moisture in the air is less in the winter is this an area of concern? Thanks in advance, Doug Armstrong From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Aug 15 12:26:34 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:26:34 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> References: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> Message-ID: <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > I am planning to install an airline system in my garage in a > few weeks. Egad ! LAX isn't bad enough, now we have to line up in your garage ? Sorry, couldn't resist. > Does anyone have any comments on how this would work in the > winter where the > temperature will mostly / always be below freezing? You need to bring down water drain points, and keep them drained. A small amount of ice won't hurt anything, as long as it has somewhere to expand to. > Since the moisture in > the air is less in the winter is this an area of concern? I believe you will still get water condensing from the compressed air. Randall (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From bobkegel at seanet.com Wed Aug 15 14:33:40 2007 From: bobkegel at seanet.com (Bob Kegel) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:33:40 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> Message-ID: <000301c7df7b$98090d50$0200a8c0@8sv5f01> I don't see a downside, so long as the system is plumbed properly. Keeping the pipes cool will aid in drying out the air. With properly sloped pipes, the condensed water will drain into the heated portion of the garage. Bob Kegel Aberdeen, WA From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 14:35:32 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:35:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> References: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> On 8/15/07, Randall wrote: > > > Does anyone have any comments on how this would work in the > > winter where the > > temperature will mostly / always be below freezing? > > You need to bring down water drain points, and keep them drained. A small > amount of ice won't hurt anything, as long as it has somewhere to expand to. > Don't install the pipes level. Run a tilted loop, with the low point at the point where the compressor feed connects to the loop. It's easier if that's in a corner, of course. On that drop, connect the down pipe to the bottom of the loop piping. Attach the compressor several feet from the end of that drop, with a tee fitting. Put a valve at the bottom. That way, water will flow to the low point, down the drop, and end up below the compressor input. Open the valve, and you can drain it. > > Since the moisture in > > the air is less in the winter is this an area of concern? > > I believe you will still get water condensing from the compressed air. > Unless it's really, really cold, yes you will. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Aug 15 18:35:43 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:35:43 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 04:35 PM 8/15/2007, David Scheidt wrote: >easier if that's in a corner, of course. On that drop, connect the >down pipe to the bottom of the loop piping. Attach the compressor >several feet from the end of that drop, with a tee fitting. Put a These guys have a nice diagram, and all the fittings. Although at somewhat high prices. http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf -Wayne From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Aug 15 18:50:19 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:50:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070815205009.01da5dd0@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 04:33 PM 8/15/2007, Bob Kegel wrote: >With properly sloped pipes, the condensed water will drain into the >heated portion of the garage. HAHA!! First time I read that, I thought it said "properly SLOTTED pipes" :) Good joke, even if not intended! -Wayne From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 18:56:41 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:56:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> References: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40708151756m21543381jcb236d47945f9866@mail.gmail.com> On 8/15/07, wmc_st at xxiii.com wrote: > At 04:35 PM 8/15/2007, David Scheidt wrote: > >easier if that's in a corner, of course. On that drop, connect the > >down pipe to the bottom of the loop piping. Attach the compressor > >several feet from the end of that drop, with a tee fitting. Put a > > These guys have a nice diagram, and all the fittings. Although at > somewhat high prices. > http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf The problem with the setup in their illustration is that they've got the drain at the opposite end of the pipe from the compressor. It's my experience that once the fairly hot and moisture-laden air hits the metal piping, it cools off very quickly. That causes much of the moisture to condense out. That happens in the first few feet of pipe. The way they've got it set up, all of that water drains into the compressor tank. I'd much rather have it drain into a few feet of dead end pipe, with a valve on it. I do like the way they've got a drain on every drop. Make sure you keep them high enough off the ground to get a bucket under them. I'd also suggest equipping the compressor with an automatic tank drain. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From gil.fuqua at cci-ir.com Thu Aug 16 08:57:18 2007 From: gil.fuqua at cci-ir.com (Gil Fuqua) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:57:18 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> References: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net><006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com><2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> Message-ID: <15C2B55292D4494EAAB4557F5BCEC0D20130708A@bnaexg01.cci-ir.com> You can install a similar piping layout to the one suggested by TIP with parts from the plumbing section of Home Depot or Lowes. About the only item you can't find is the flexible line that connects the compressor to the hard pipe. Consider feeding the air line from the compressor into a T fitting from the side (see below). The bottom of the fitting should have a drain so that moisture that condenses on the pipe will not drain back into the compressor. Also add an automatic drain on the tank that periodically cycles on in order to drain off moisture from the tank. I collect the majority of the moisture from these two drains on my system. The one at the end of the line seldom needs draining. Piping Layout for drain at compressor To air line [] [] [] [] [][][][][][] input line from compressor [] [] [] [] [[]] shut off valve [] [] [] Drain ---- Gil Fuqua -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+gil.fuqua=cci-ir.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+gil.fuqua=cci-ir.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of wmc_st at xxiii.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:36 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping At 04:35 PM 8/15/2007, David Scheidt wrote: >easier if that's in a corner, of course. On that drop, connect the >down pipe to the bottom of the loop piping. Attach the compressor >several feet from the end of that drop, with a tee fitting. Put a These guys have a nice diagram, and all the fittings. Although at somewhat high prices. http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf -Wayne _______________________________________________ gil.fuqua at cci-ir.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From watsonm05 at comcast.net Thu Aug 16 17:47:25 2007 From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:47:25 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters Spark Controversy Message-ID: <005d01c7e05f$ccda1df0$0202a8c0@watsongxpejt9r> Dear All, I'm prevailing on the collective wisdom of the group. Obviously I don't intend to put these in my garage (obligatory shop content) but I'm thinking about putting some on our bedrooms. I have a pretty severely handicapped son who wouldn't be able to get out of his room in the event of an emergency and it's his room I'm most worried about. If you follow the link to the article you'll see that some people like and some people hate AFCI's. A friend of mine recently finished an "addition" to his house (original house ~1800 square feet, addition ~3800 square feet - some addition) and had to use AFCI's. He reports no problems (so far) other than cost. Anyone else have any experience you'd like to share? Thanks, Mark Watson 1956 Daimler Regency Mk II '104' 1965 Ford Falcon 6 cylinder, 3 on the tree, four doors - a true Grandma's car if I ever saw one and just the way I like it! various modern transportation pods ---------- Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters Spark Controversy http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/ArticleID/16244/16244.html ---------- For more articles and engineering resources, visit www.elecdesign.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Aug 16 18:08:22 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:08:22 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Question about: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters Spark Controversy In-Reply-To: <005d01c7e05f$ccda1df0$0202a8c0@watsongxpejt9r> References: <005d01c7e05f$ccda1df0$0202a8c0@watsongxpejt9r> Message-ID: <013f01c7e062$b9a00f80$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > Anyone else have any experience you'd like to share? I don't. But as an almost-EE, I do have a question. They taught us at Purdue that an electrical arc is a sort of plasma, with a very low resistance (lower than copper as I recall). So how exactly does one get an arc to ground that will not trip a GFCI ? I can see where a GFCI or a standard breaker would not be able to detect an in-line arc, like might be created by a bad contact or a broken conductor. But how often is that really a problem ? Seems to me that it would fairly quickly burn the wire back (ever tried welding with a pure copper electrode ?) until the arc went out ... I'd be a lot more convinced if someone could point to an actual fire that could have been prevented by an AFCI, but not a GFCI. Or even explain how an AFCI distinguishes between an intentional arc (eg brush sparks on a universal motor) and an accidental one. From the comments presented, it appears that they can't reliably tell the difference. Randall (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From cavanadd at verizon.net Thu Aug 16 20:29:05 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:29:05 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <15C2B55292D4494EAAB4557F5BCEC0D20130708A@bnaexg01.cci-ir.c om> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> At 09:57 AM 8/16/2007 -0500, Gil Fuqua wrote: >You can install a similar piping layout to the one suggested by TIP with >parts from the plumbing section of Home Depot or Lowes. About the only >item you can't find is the flexible line that connects the compressor to >the hard pipe. > >Consider feeding the air line from the compressor into a T fitting from >the side (see below). The bottom of the fitting should have a drain so >that moisture that condenses on the pipe will not drain back into the >compressor. Also add an automatic drain on the tank that periodically >cycles on in order to drain off moisture from the tank. I collect the >majority of the moisture from these two drains on my system. The one at >the end of the line seldom needs draining. With the exception of the auto drain, which I have yet to purchase (any recommendations?) this is how I plumbed my shop earlier this summer after I got my new air compressor. I installed a 3/4" hard copper "backbone" from the compressor up the wall, across the trusses the length of the shop (48 feet) and down the other end. Each end has a T fitting with the outlet out the side and a dirt leg and a drain valve below it. The side drops are 1/2" copper coming off a T (pointing up) in the main line. Each side drop also has a T with a dirt leg, but I haven't gotten around to installing valves on the ends, so they are just plugged for now. I also installed a moisture separator/filter and regulator on the compressor tank outlet, and I run the main line at 80 psi, and the tank cycles between 120 and 130 pounds. The main line slopes 6" in 48 feet from the compressor end to the other end. I connected the compressor to the main piping using 3/4" hose barbed fittings and a length of 3/4" air compressor hose I bought from an industrial supplier for about 75 cents a foot; I bought 3 feet and used about half of it. All pipe and fittings were bought at Home Depot, and I soft soldered it using a roll of 20 year old acid core solder and paste flux. So far it's been great; I am using my air tools and sprayers a LOT more just because the air is available and so convenient. I set it up so no location in the shop is more then 12 feet from an air drop. I also installed a Harbor Freight retractable hose reel setup at each end of the shop, about seven feet up. I bought them on sale two years ago and they were just waiting patiently for the new compressor and piping. They seem to work fine so far, too. Dave C From wmgilroy at gmail.com Fri Aug 17 12:49:04 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:49:04 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Running electrical circuit though a foundation Message-ID: <441250190708171149o7c9d1daeo3dc0b42943277780@mail.gmail.com> For some reason it was decide that we need a light in the front yard on a pole (lost that battle). I need to run a circuit to the pole from the inside of my house. I could run a conduit through the wood part of the outside wall but that would be ugly. I think my best choice would be to put a hole in the foundation, below the grade and run a conduit through that hole to the light pole. I have a couple of questions: 1. What is the base way to drill a hole for a 1" conduit through a poured concrete foundation? Hammer drill rental? 2. I think the best solution is to run a conduit the whole length and then run 3 conductors inside the conduit. Any opinions? 3. Anyone know what the code is about burying conduits? Need to surround the conduit with gravel? 4. What type of conduit is good acceptable for being buried? Anything else I might have forgotten? Thanks, Bill From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Fri Aug 17 13:40:32 2007 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:40:32 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Running electrical circuit though a foundation In-Reply-To: <441250190708171149o7c9d1daeo3dc0b42943277780@mail.gmail.com> References: <441250190708171149o7c9d1daeo3dc0b42943277780@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I just finished running wire for a subpanel to my detached garage in conduit... (90 Amps in the shop now - yay!!) 1. My opinion would be not to drill any holes below grade in the foundation, asking for leaks. Maybe *just* above grade would be better. 2. plastic conduit is easy to work with, cheap, etc. I would definitely do that. There are situations where you can use outdoor rated wire but I would still go with the conduit - safer and you'll only need 1" or so diameter conduit, cheap stuff and you'll already have a trench dug out. 3. plastic conduit needs to be buried 18". Metal is 12" if I remember. 4. Schedule 40 and 80 are your choices - 80 is heavier duty for situations where physical contact with the conduit might occur The elbows you'll find for making turns with the conduit or large radius elbows, which I assume is because it would be hard to pull wire through a tight bend so they don't bother. But it makes for unsightly looking connections. I lucked out by coming through a basement window well frame (wood) underneath my deck, so you couldn't see it if you tried. But at the garage it's more obvious, but then I also have it going 4 feet up the wall before it comes through the wall directly into my subpanel... Use the correct cement for electrical conduit, not the type you might use with plumbing DWV pvc pipe. I also purchased a trenching shovel for digging the narrow, deep trenches. Alot easier than trying to use any other type of shovel for this purpose. -PJ > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:49:04 -0700> From: wmgilroy at gmail.com> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net> Subject: [Shop-talk] Running electrical circuit though a foundation> > For some reason it was decide that we need a light in the front yard on a> pole (lost that battle). I need to run a circuit to the pole from the> inside of my house. I could run a conduit through the wood part of the> outside wall but that would be ugly. I think my best choice would be to put> a hole in the foundation, below the grade and run a conduit through that> hole to the light pole. I have a couple of questions:> > > > 1. What is the base way to drill a hole for a 1" conduit through a> poured concrete foundation? Hammer drill rental?> > 2. I think the best solution is to run a conduit the whole length and> then run 3 conductors inside the conduit. Any opinions?> > 3. Anyone know what the code is about burying conduits? Need to> surround the conduit with gravel?> > 4. What type of conduit is good acceptable for being buried?> > > > Anything else I might have forgotten?> > > > Thanks,> > > > Bill _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri Aug 17 16:06:24 2007 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:06:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Running electrical circuit though a foundation References: <441250190708171149o7c9d1daeo3dc0b42943277780@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002d01c7e11a$e5ea5f10$0202a8c0@ejrussell> Can you use a solar light? http://www.siliconsolar.com/solar-garden-lights.php I'd avoid drilling a hole below grade. Put a junction box at the sill of the house and run gray plastic conduit down to a trench and then out to the light post. If you insist on drilling a hole through the concrete rent the hammer drill. And take lots of Motrin... Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gilroy" > I think my best choice would be to put > a hole in the foundation, below the grade and run a conduit through > that > hole to the light pole. From watsonm05 at comcast.net Fri Aug 17 16:32:38 2007 From: watsonm05 at comcast.net (Mark Watson) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:32:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Running electrical circuit though a foundation Message-ID: <006301c7e11e$84b06650$0202a8c0@watsongxpejt9r> A couple of years ago I ran 100Amp service to the garage and like you I say "YAY!" I agree - don't go through the foundation below grade. To go through the foundation you can use an "LB" fitting. Also, to make "sharp" right turns with PVC pipe, particularly when coming through the wall to go straight down into the ground (which is what I did) you need to use an "LB" fitting. It's designed with a gasketed cover so you can pull the wire out into the air and then shove it out the exit. I ran big wire for my 100A service and it was "fun" to get it to feed throught the pipes. Finally managed it though. Here's a link to an image of an LB fitting: http://www.fittings.net/CatalogBySubcategory.asp?CatName=PVC%20Fittings&CatID=8&SubCatName=PVC%20Bodies%20%22LB%22&SubCatID=121 This company sells all sorts of fittings besides the LB: http://www.fittings.net/CatalogByCategory.asp?CatName=PVC%20Fittings&CatID=8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "PJ McGarvey" To: "Shop-Talk Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Running electrical circuit though a foundation >I just finished running wire for a subpanel to my detached garage in > conduit... (90 Amps in the shop now - yay!!) > > 1. My opinion would be not to drill any holes below grade in the > foundation, > asking for leaks. Maybe *just* above grade would be better. > > 2. plastic conduit is easy to work with, cheap, etc. I would definitely > do > that. There are situations where you can use outdoor rated wire > but I would still go with the conduit - safer and you'll only need 1" or > so > diameter conduit, cheap stuff and you'll already have a trench dug out. > > 3. plastic conduit needs to be buried 18". Metal is 12" if I remember. > > 4. Schedule 40 and 80 are your choices - 80 is heavier duty for situations > where physical contact with the conduit might occur > > > The elbows you'll find for making turns with the conduit or large radius > elbows, which I assume is because it would be hard to pull wire through a > tight bend > so they don't bother. But it makes for unsightly looking connections. I > lucked out by coming through a basement window well frame (wood) > underneath my > deck, so you couldn't see it if you tried. But at the garage it's more > obvious, but then I also have it going 4 feet up the wall before it comes > through the wall directly into my subpanel... > > Use the correct cement for electrical conduit, not the type you might use > with > plumbing DWV pvc pipe. > > I also purchased a trenching shovel for digging the narrow, deep trenches. > Alot easier than trying to use any other type of shovel for this purpose. > > -PJ From drberkowitz at hotmail.com Fri Aug 17 17:28:07 2007 From: drberkowitz at hotmail.com (Leonard Berkowitz) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:28:07 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] test Message-ID: _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink From drberkowitz at hotmail.com Fri Aug 17 17:30:19 2007 From: drberkowitz at hotmail.com (Leonard Berkowitz) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:30:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] vapor lock Message-ID: any suggestions for curing vapor lock on a 1950 Dodge _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Aug 17 17:45:53 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:45:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] vapor lock In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <025001c7e128$c04c3630$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > any suggestions for curing vapor lock on a 1950 Dodge What exactly is the problem ? Lots of folks use "vapor lock" to cover several different conditions, so it's important to ask. If it's true vapor lock (fuel boiling in the line between the tank & pump), then you'll need to either cool the line somehow, or keep it under more pressure by adding a pump in the rear. Frequently, a sheet metal heat shield around the exhaust (where it's close to the line) will do the trick. Randall (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From ejrussell at mebtel.net Fri Aug 17 18:52:43 2007 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:52:43 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] vapor lock References: Message-ID: <00ff01c7e132$242509d0$0202a8c0@ejrussell> Does it occur while driving or after shut down and attempted re-starts? If the former, it is usually the fuel pump that is getting 'vapor locked' - try re-routing fuel lines away from any heat sources (block, exhaust,etc). If the latter, it could be the fuel in the float bowl boiling/vaporizing. Try an insulating spacer between the intake and the carb. Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leonard Berkowitz" > any suggestions for curing vapor lock on a 1950 Dodge From kentsu at corvairkid.com Fri Aug 17 19:11:44 2007 From: kentsu at corvairkid.com (Kent Sullivan) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:11:44 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <006001c7e134$be2f0510$3a8d0f30$@com> I really like the automatic tank drain that I have that's made by Granzow. I've been using it for about 3 years now with no trouble. This is the one my air compressor dealer recommended. It has a max delay between "blasts" of about 45 minutes, which is fine for a commercial setting where the equipment is in use a lot, but in my home shop that's more often than needed. I solved that problem by plugging it into a lamp timer and having it "wake up" twice during the night and fire off during that period. --Kent -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+kentsu=corvairkid.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+kentsu=corvairkid.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of David C. Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:29 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping With the exception of the auto drain, which I have yet to purchase (any recommendations?) Dave C From cavanadd at verizon.net Fri Aug 17 20:37:41 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:37:41 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <006001c7e134$be2f0510$3a8d0f30$@com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070817193638.01697080@incoming.verizon.net> Great idea. Do you remember where you got it? At 06:11 PM 8/17/2007 -0700, Kent Sullivan wrote: >I really like the automatic tank drain that I have that's made by Granzow. >I've been using it for about 3 years now with no trouble. This is the one my >air compressor dealer recommended. It has a max delay between "blasts" of >about 45 minutes, which is fine for a commercial setting where the equipment >is in use a lot, but in my home shop that's more often than needed. I solved >that problem by plugging it into a lamp timer and having it "wake up" twice >during the night and fire off during that period. > >--Kent >-----Original Message----- >From: shop-talk-bounces+kentsu=corvairkid.com at autox.team.net >[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+kentsu=corvairkid.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >David C. >Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:29 PM >To: shop-talk at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping > > >With the exception of the auto drain, which I have yet to purchase (any >recommendations?) > > > >Dave C >_______________________________________________ >cavanadd at verizon.net > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From gsteve at hammatt.com Fri Aug 17 21:15:11 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:15:11 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net><6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com><20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net><006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com><2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com><6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com><5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20070817193638.01697080@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <003a01c7e145$fd3f8520$0202a8c0@your52698ciuyt> I don't recall the brand that I have on my upright 5hp compressor, but I know that I bought it from Grainger http://www.grainger.com/ and it works on pressure differential. When the pressure changes, it dumps. When the unit is idle, there's no activation of the bottom water dump. Had it for 6+ years with no problems. However, when you're in the shop and everything is quiet....and then it "burps"....it can grab your attention! Enjoy Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "David C." To: "Kent Sullivan" ; Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping | Great idea. Do you remember where you got it? | | | At 06:11 PM 8/17/2007 -0700, Kent Sullivan wrote: | >I really like the automatic tank drain that I have that's made by Granzow. | >I've been using it for about 3 years now with no trouble. This is the one my | >air compressor dealer recommended. It has a max delay between "blasts" of | >about 45 minutes, which is fine for a commercial setting where the equipment | >is in use a lot, but in my home shop that's more often than needed. I solved | >that problem by plugging it into a lamp timer and having it "wake up" twice | >during the night and fire off during that period. | > | >--Kent snip From rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com Fri Aug 17 21:32:24 2007 From: rlwhitetr3b at hotmail.com (Rich White) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:32:24 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping Message-ID: All pipe and fittings were bought at Home Depot, and I > soft soldered it using a roll of 20 year old acid core solder and paste > flux. Dave, I did not think acid core solder was to be used on copper? I was taught that the acid would eventually eat through the copper. This is why pluming and electronics used rosin core solder. Rich White St. Joseph, IL USA '63 TR3B TCF587L That ain't a scrap pile, that is my car! See it moves! From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Aug 17 21:49:19 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:49:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <029b01c7e14a$c1af0210$6a5636cc@navcom.com> > I did not think acid core solder was to be used on copper? > I was taught that the acid would eventually eat through the copper. > This is why pluming and electronics used rosin core solder. I was taught that acid-core was OK on plumbing, just not on fine electrical joints. These days, of course, you're not even supposed to use lead solder on plumbing. Randall (Tedious but unavoidable disclaimer follows) CONFIDENTIALITY. This electronic mail and any files transmitted with it may contain information proprietary to NavCom Technology, Inc., or one of its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, shall be maintained in confidence and not disclosed to third parties without the written consent of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the electronic mail to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this electronic mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by return mail. From kentsu at corvairkid.com Sat Aug 18 00:16:51 2007 From: kentsu at corvairkid.com (Kent Sullivan) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:16:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20070817193638.01697080@incoming.verizon.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20070817193638.01697080@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <003501c7e15f$5dd39ac0$197ad040$@com> I don't remember the exact one that I have, but here is the page on their site: http://www.granzow.com/valves/drain/ --Kent -----Original Message----- From: David C. [mailto:cavanadd at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:38 PM To: Kent Sullivan; shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping Great idea. Do you remember where you got it? At 06:11 PM 8/17/2007 -0700, Kent Sullivan wrote: >I really like the automatic tank drain that I have that's made by Granzow. >I've been using it for about 3 years now with no trouble. This is the one my >air compressor dealer recommended. It has a max delay between "blasts" of >about 45 minutes, which is fine for a commercial setting where the equipment >is in use a lot, but in my home shop that's more often than needed. I solved >that problem by plugging it into a lamp timer and having it "wake up" twice >during the night and fire off during that period. > >--Kent >-----Original Message----- >From: shop-talk-bounces+kentsu=corvairkid.com at autox.team.net >[mailto:shop-talk-bounces+kentsu=corvairkid.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of >David C. >Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:29 PM >To: shop-talk at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping > > >With the exception of the auto drain, which I have yet to purchase (any >recommendations?) > > > >Dave C >_______________________________________________ >cavanadd at verizon.net > >Shop-talk mailing list > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From wmgilroy at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 00:50:52 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:50:52 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> References: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> Message-ID: <441250190708172350x6fe72a10w513b2e866ac61530@mail.gmail.com> You might consider ChemAire from Nibco. See http://www.nibco.com/assets/ChmairOvrw.pdf On 8/15/07, Apache wrote: > > I am planning to install an airline system in my garage in a few weeks. > > A while back it was suggested to run the horizontal loop of the system up > in > the roof trusses. I like this idea because it cleans up the clutter and > allows for easy fixturing to the trusses to get proper slopes for water > drainage. > > Does anyone have any comments on how this would work in the winter where > the > temperature will mostly / always be below freezing? I have a drywalled > ceiling, so it will stay cold in the roof trusses. Since the moisture in > the air is less in the winter is this an area of concern? > > Thanks in advance, > > Doug Armstrong > _______________________________________________ > wmgilroy at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > -- Vote for Team Death Trap at http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. From jblair1948 at cox.net Sat Aug 18 07:18:13 2007 From: jblair1948 at cox.net (John T. Blair) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 09:18:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <006001c7e134$be2f0510$3a8d0f30$@com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20070818091813.00a938b8@pop.east.cox.net> At 06:11 PM 8/17/2007 -0700, Kent Sullivan wrote: >I really like the automatic tank drain that I have that's made by Granzow. >I've been using it for about 3 years now with no trouble. This is the one my >air compressor dealer recommended. It has a max delay between "blasts" of >about 45 minutes, which is fine for a commercial setting where the equipment >is in use a lot, but in my home shop that's more often than needed. I solved >that problem by plugging it into a lamp timer and having it "wake up" twice >during the night and fire off during that period. If you have a typical compressor, don't get the El Cheapo from Harbor Freight! I got one, but it doesn't work. Several problems with it: 1. The way it senses pressure is right off the compressor head. So since the air is hot, it will melt the plastic line they provide. Which is how the instructions say to plumb it. 2. It fired backwards. I don't remember why, but when my tank was charged, it would dump. But it doesn't shut off until the pressure is releived or something and drains the tank. I'd love to find a nice inexpensive one. John John T. Blair WA4OHZ email: jblair1948 at cox.net Va. Beach, Va Phone: (757) 495-8229 48 TR1800 48 #4 Midget 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887) 77 Spitfire 71 Saab Sonett III 65 Rambler Classic Morgan: www.team.net/www/morgan Bricklin: www.bricklin.org If you can read this - Thank a teacher! If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!! From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat Aug 18 08:51:10 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:51:10 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070818104244.00b4a650@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 11:32 PM 8/17/2007, Rich White wrote: >I did not think acid core solder was to be used on copper? >I was taught that the acid would eventually eat through the copper. >This is why pluming and electronics used rosin core solder. Tin/Lead solder with acid flux [usually external, not core] was the norm for copper plumbing for years. They switched to lead free solder for health concerns [I've always thought silly] sometime in the 90s. The flux used is still very reactive; I'm not sure exactly what is it or how acidic. And yes, acid flux will ruin electronic components. On plumbing you're supposed to wipe it off the outside, and any inside will be flushed away. >You might consider ChemAire from Nibco. See >http://www.nibco.com/assets/ChmairOvrw.pdf That looks like some really snazzy stuff! I hate to think what they charge for it! -Wayne From wmc_st at xxiii.com Sat Aug 18 09:02:00 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:02:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] ChemAire pricing Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070818105833.00b4a508@mail.bellsouth.net> Here's a web site with pricing on that "ChemAire" piping. Yeah, it's expensive. Might actually be worth it. On the other hand, I've seen numerous industrial and professional shops done with plain PVC and I haven't heard of any pipe explosions. http://www.plasticdepots.com/c-345-compressed-180psi-air-piping.aspx -Wayne From wmgilroy at gmail.com Sat Aug 18 21:22:59 2007 From: wmgilroy at gmail.com (Bill Gilroy) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 20:22:59 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] ChemAire pricing In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070818105833.00b4a508@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070818105833.00b4a508@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <441250190708182022y8e26481q7aaa191bf5308b6f@mail.gmail.com> Last time I checked the pipe was not much more expensive then copper. The upside is the install time has to be less sweating copper. My friend has his garage plumbed with PVC. One winter he hit the PVC pipe with a ladder and it did shatter, but that is the only time I have ever heard of this and it was caused by an impact. On 8/18/07, wmc_st at xxiii.com wrote: > > Here's a web site with pricing on that "ChemAire" piping. Yeah, it's > expensive. Might actually be worth it. On the other hand, I've seen > numerous industrial and professional shops done with plain PVC and I > haven't heard of any pipe explosions. > > http://www.plasticdepots.com/c-345-compressed-180psi-air-piping.aspx > > -Wayne > _______________________________________________ > wmgilroy at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > -- Vote for Team Death Trap at http://www.redbullsoapboxusa.com/Seattle-2007/wildcard.aspx each day and vote for until Aug. 8th and forward this onto anyone who can help spread the word. From eltonclark at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 20:24:02 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:24:02 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satallite Internet Service Message-ID: *I have an ol' friend in the "outback" of wildest Vermont who can't get DSL or cable for his internet source and he's getting sick of "dialup" . . He's heard bad stories from someone on Hughes Satallite and I wonder if any of the astute collective wisdom of the "Shop Talk" list can comment on their experience with any of the satallite internet service providers . . * *We'll appreciate advice.* *Tony in Texas * From mikey at b2systems.com Sun Aug 19 20:38:19 2007 From: mikey at b2systems.com (Mike Rambour) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:38:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <003501c7e15f$5dd39ac0$197ad040$@com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20070817193638.01697080@incoming.verizon.net> <003501c7e15f$5dd39ac0$197ad040$@com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070819193500.053b4570@b2systems.com> Wow, I think I finally found what I was looking for all these years, I have read every post here on auto-drains over the last few years and most people just said don't get the HF one. Now this one I understand, I wish I could set it for 15second bursts every say 8 hours since I am home shop and most of the time my compressor does not run that much, when I blast that is of course different as it runs a lot then. But that light timer would work. Now the issue is this thing opening up in the middle of the night and waking up the neighborhood...how do you guys handle the noise when it opens up ? My compressor is in my garage and I would hate to be near it when it opens up and lets that 175psi out at full noise. At 11:16 PM 8/17/2007, you wrote: >I don't remember the exact one that I have, but here is the page on their >site: > >http://www.granzow.com/valves/drain/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mike Rambour Bug Writer err...Programmer mikey at b2systems.com ********************************************************************** If you want to learn more about the ULTIMATE BRITISH sports car, then take a look at http://www.singercars.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 20:44:05 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:44:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satallite Internet Service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2400a5d40708191944u7feaeed7m5377e56467b94f46@mail.gmail.com> On 8/19/07, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > *I have an ol' friend in the "outback" of wildest Vermont who can't get DSL > or cable for his internet source and he's getting sick of "dialup" . . He's > heard bad stories from someone on Hughes Satallite and I wonder if any of > the astute collective wisdom of the "Shop Talk" list can comment on their > experience with any of the satallite internet service providers . . * > *We'll appreciate advice.* > *Tony in Texas * I've no direct experience with huges, so I'll restrict myself to making general technical comments that apply to all satellite data links. They're laggy. There's an inherent delay of about a quarter of a second between when you send a packet to the satellite and when it's received by the ground station at the other end. That's a function of the speed of light. There's then the time that it takes for data to transit the internet between the ground station and the final destination, probably 0.1 second or so. Then the 0.1 second for response data to get back to the earth station, followed by the quarter-second trip to your satellite receiver. That gives a minimum round trip time of about 2/3 of a second. If you're surfing the web, or getting email with POP or IMAP, that's livable. If you're trying to do something interactive, like an ssh session, it's downright painful. It's not unusual for the processing time on the satellite to add additional time to this, as well. Second, there's limited bandwidth between the satellite and the ground stations. Depending on how badly it's oversold, and what other people's usage patterns are, you may find the speed very bursty. Download speeds shouldn't fall below dialup speeds, but uploads might well. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From cavanadd at verizon.net Sun Aug 19 21:00:31 2007 From: cavanadd at verizon.net (David C.) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:00:31 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070819193500.053b4570@b2systems.com> References: <003501c7e15f$5dd39ac0$197ad040$@com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20070817193638.01697080@incoming.verizon.net> <003501c7e15f$5dd39ac0$197ad040$@com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20070819195611.0153e2f0@incoming.verizon.net> At 07:38 PM 8/19/2007 -0700, Mike Rambour wrote: >Now the issue is this thing opening up in the middle of the night >and waking up the neighborhood...how do you guys handle the >noise when it opens up ? My compressor is in my garage and I would >hate to be near it when it opens up and lets that 175psi out at full noise. Well, you could unplug it when you aren't in the shop, or you could pull the circuit for the auto drain off one leg of the compressor circuit on the bottom of the disconnect, and then open the disconnect whenever you're not in the shop, which would keep it from going off, too. Or you could use a seven day timer, and have it set to energize the auto drain only during the day on weekends. Dave C From kentsu at corvairkid.com Sun Aug 19 21:32:59 2007 From: kentsu at corvairkid.com (Kent Sullivan) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:32:59 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070819193500.053b4570@b2systems.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20070817193638.01697080@incoming.verizon.net> <003501c7e15f$5dd39ac0$197ad040$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20070819193500.053b4570@b2systems.com> Message-ID: <014e01c7e2da$cf207ff0$6d617fd0$@com> Hi, I looked at my unit and verified that the one I have is: http://www.granzow.com/valves/drain/ET20M-3-8/ I am fortunate to not have to worry about neighbors hearing the noise. The first reason is that the discharge pipe stays inside the shop: it dumps into a floor drain. The second reason is the shop is back from the street a ways. --Kent -----Original Message----- From: Mike Rambour [mailto:mikey at b2systems.com] Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:38 PM To: Kent Sullivan; shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping Wow, I think I finally found what I was looking for all these years, I have read every post here on auto-drains over the last few years and most people just said don't get the HF one. Now this one I understand, I wish I could set it for 15 second bursts every say 8 hours since I am home shop and most of the time my compressor does not run that much, when I blast that is of course different as it runs a lot then. But that light timer would work. Now the issue is this thing opening up in the middle of the night and waking up the neighborhood...how do you guys handle the noise when it opens up ? My compressor is in my garage and I would hate to be near it when it opens up and lets that 175psi out at full noise. From dmscheidt at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 21:37:49 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:37:49 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Airline Piping In-Reply-To: <014e01c7e2da$cf207ff0$6d617fd0$@com> References: <20070815165656.M61285@nexicom.net> <006c01c7df69$d073f950$6a5636cc@navcom.com> <2400a5d40708151335k498ba983uf0b843d22da6081c@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070815203433.01d9e578@mailsvr.xxiii.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20070816191528.0167adb8@incoming.verizon.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20070817193638.01697080@incoming.verizon.net> <003501c7e15f$5dd39ac0$197ad040$@com> <7.0.1.0.2.20070819193500.053b4570@b2systems.com> <014e01c7e2da$cf207ff0$6d617fd0$@com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40708192037r32de8056yd7c1c005c390a648@mail.gmail.com> On 8/19/07, Kent Sullivan wrote: > Hi, > > I looked at my unit and verified that the one I have is: > > http://www.granzow.com/valves/drain/ET20M-3-8/ > > I am fortunate to not have to worry about neighbors hearing the noise. The > first reason is that the discharge pipe stays inside the shop: it dumps into > a floor drain. The second reason is the shop is back from the street a ways. > > There are drains that only trip when the fluid level reaches a certain point. I know donaldson makes some, but I've only seen them on big (1000 cfm or so) compressors. They also don't dump any air, just the condensate, so they're nearly silent. I don't know if they make home sized ones, or not. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Aug 19 22:08:09 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (tr3driver at ca.rr.com) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:08:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satallite Internet Service Message-ID: <15262762.1187582889522.JavaMail.root@web15> ---- "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" wrote: > *I have an ol' friend in the "outback" of wildest Vermont who can't get DSL > or cable for his internet source and he's getting sick of "dialup" . . He's > heard bad stories from someone on Hughes Satallite and I wonder if any of > the astute collective wisdom of the "Shop Talk" list can comment on their > experience with any of the satallite internet service providers . . * No experience to share, just a thought ... has he thought about getting maybe 4 land lines, with 4 56k modems & software to aggregate the throughput ? Have to check with his ISP first, to see if they support multiple lines, but many at least used to. Randall From drberkowitz at hotmail.com Sun Aug 19 22:29:15 2007 From: drberkowitz at hotmail.com (Leonard Berkowitz) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:29:15 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Vapor lock or flooding? Message-ID: My 1950 Dodge has a flat head straight six with a one barrel Stromberg carburator. If I turn off a hot engine for any where from 5 minutes to when the engine is cooled way down restarting becomes an issue. If I restart without waiting there is no problem. In order to start I need to depress the gas pedal to the floor (like on a flooded engine) and crank away. I does eventually restart. As long as I don't stop the engine I have never had any problem with it cutting out or otherwise. It has been suggested on other lists that this is vapor lock by some and flooding by others. What are the thoughts of this list. Len _________________________________________________________________ Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Sun Aug 19 22:43:51 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (tr3driver at ca.rr.com) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:43:51 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Vapor lock or flooding? Message-ID: <27886364.1187585031943.JavaMail.root@web15> > It has been suggested on other lists > that this is vapor lock by some and flooding by others. What are the thoughts > of this list. Lots of folks are very careless about the term "vapor lock". IMO this isn't it. Instead, the fuel is boiling in the float bowl and the vapor is filling the intake manifold. A common cause of flooding. To cure it, keep heat away from the float bowl. Lots of cars have fiber/asbestos insulators between the carb & manifold for this reason. A simple sheet metal heat shield will frequently help also. In some cases, manufacturers have gone as far as putting small 12v fans (like a computer fan) with a thermostat, to blow cool air on the bowl to prevent percolation until underhood temperatures drop. Or, if you have an electric fan on the radiator, add an override so the fan runs if the float bowl is hot. Randall From eltonclark at gmail.com Sun Aug 19 22:47:36 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:47:36 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Vapor lock or flooding? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *If hot weather is involved. the classic remedies include isolating all fuel components from engine and exhaust heat with a plastic carburetor mount block and sheet metal heat shields. Fitting an electric fuel pump in a cool location is good as well. I once had a Datsun 510 with a/c that was bad to vapor lock. My wife called once stranded with the problem and I had her shake up her Sprite and squirt it on the fuel pump . . It started right up . . she later asked why a Coke wouldn't have done the same thing!* *Tony in Texas * On 8/19/07, Leonard Berkowitz wrote: > > My 1950 Dodge has a flat head straight six with a one barrel Stromberg > carburator. If I turn off a hot engine for any where from 5 minutes to > when > the engine is cooled way down restarting becomes an issue. If I restart > without waiting there is no problem. In order to start I need to depress > the > gas pedal to the floor (like on a flooded engine) and crank away. I does > eventually restart. As long as I don't stop the engine I have never had > any > problem with it cutting out or otherwise. It has been suggested on other > lists > that this is vapor lock by some and flooding by others. What are the > thoughts > of this list. > > Len > _________________________________________________________________ > Recharge--play some free games. Win cool prizes too! > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_wlmailtextlink > _______________________________________________ > eltonclark at gmail.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From brabel at dlux.net Sun Aug 19 22:51:56 2007 From: brabel at dlux.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:51:56 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Vapor lock or flooding? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70550BB6-615D-4FA9-A226-3B9CEE114CF2@dlux.net> I'd suggest a carburetor cleaning. It sounds like fuel is getting past the float chamber when the engine is off. - Bill Rabel Anacortes, WA > My 1950 Dodge has a flat head straight six with a one barrel Stromberg > carburator. If I turn off a hot engine for any where from 5 minutes > to when > the engine is cooled way down restarting becomes an issue. If I > restart > without waiting there is no problem. In order to start I need to > depress the > gas pedal to the floor (like on a flooded engine) and crank away. > I does > eventually restart. As long as I don't stop the engine I have > never had any > problem with it cutting out or otherwise. It has been suggested on > other lists > that this is vapor lock by some and flooding by others. What are > the thoughts > of this list. From chad at linuxeg.com Mon Aug 20 00:00:19 2007 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 02:00:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satallite Internet Service In-Reply-To: <15262762.1187582889522.JavaMail.root@web15> References: <15262762.1187582889522.JavaMail.root@web15> Message-ID: <46C92DF3.707@linuxeg.com> Have you thought of ISDN? You get 2 x 56kb channels that bind together for a 112kb digital channel. This assumes your friends ISP and phone company can provide the service. chad tr3driver at ca.rr.com wrote: >---- "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" wrote: > > >>*I have an ol' friend in the "outback" of wildest Vermont who can't get DSL >>or cable for his internet source and he's getting sick of "dialup" . . He's >>heard bad stories from someone on Hughes Satallite and I wonder if any of >>the astute collective wisdom of the "Shop Talk" list can comment on their >>experience with any of the satallite internet service providers . . * From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Mon Aug 20 07:44:14 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:44:14 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C99AAE.80601@hornesystemstx.com> Tony, I agree with what others said about satellite service. I personally have not had it either, but s couple neighbors do. They use it mainly for email and surfing the web, so they like it. There are several problems that have not been brought up yet though. Just like the outage you get on satellite TV when it rains, you have the same problem on the internet service. I also understand that the satellite providers require upgrades of the feed horn every couple of years, which is at the subscriber's expense. (I have not been able to verify this one as the two local users have not had their service that long.) Has your friend looked to see if there is a ground based wireless internet provider in the area? Actually, I do installs for this type of service for rural folks in the Central Texas area. I've done links up to 20 miles from the tower that work just fine. The ground based wireless does not go out during rain storms, does not suffer from the delays, and usually costs less than satellite service. Peace, Pat Thusly spake Elton E. (Tony) Clark: > *I have an ol' friend in the "outback" of wildest Vermont who can't get DSL > or cable for his internet source and he's getting sick of "dialup" . . He's > heard bad stories from someone on Hughes Satallite and I wonder if any of > the astute collective wisdom of the "Shop Talk" list can comment on their > experience with any of the satallite internet service providers . . * > *We'll appreciate advice.* > *Tony in Texas * > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From dmscheidt at gmail.com Mon Aug 20 08:20:05 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:20:05 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service In-Reply-To: <46C99AAE.80601@hornesystemstx.com> References: <46C99AAE.80601@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <2400a5d40708200720p1b39c72u3fe0fc66a2d18572@mail.gmail.com> On 8/20/07, Pat Horne wrote: > Has your friend looked to see if there is a ground based wireless > internet provider in the area? Actually, I do installs for this type of > service for rural folks in the Central Texas area. I've done links up to > 20 miles from the tower that work just fine. The ground based wireless > does not go out during rain storms, does not suffer from the delays, and > usually costs less than satellite service. He said his friend was in rural Vermont. Unlike Central Texas, there's terrain there. What sort of fixed wireless do you do? I've got service from a provider using Motorola's Canopy system. It's fast and fairly cheap. I wouldn't say it's immune from rain fade, though. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Mon Aug 20 09:12:19 2007 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service In-Reply-To: <46C99AAE.80601@hornesystemstx.com> References: <46C99AAE.80601@hornesystemstx.com> Message-ID: <20070820110803.I70581@itonami.pair.com> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007, Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote... > *I have an ol' friend in the "outback" of wildest Vermont who can't get DSL > or cable for his internet source and he's getting sick of "dialup" . . He's > heard bad stories from someone on Hughes Satallite and I wonder if any of > the astute collective wisdom of the "Shop Talk" list can comment on their > experience with any of the satallite internet service providers . . * > *We'll appreciate advice.* I have all the equipment for Earthlink satellite internet service gathering dust in my basement. You can have it for free, plus shipping. That's a pretty accurate statement of my experience in sum. The service started out great, and was blazingly fast ( 12mb/s ). So much so, that when I later called to complain about it slowing down, no one at Earthlink could belive how fast it *used to be*. Even after I sent them saved copies of speed reports I'd done, they were gobsmacked. Eventually, it slowed down to the point of being not worthwhile, and the weather-related outages were a big problem, too. I still have DirecTV, but have ditched the satellite for Comcast Cable Internet, and am very happy. -- David Hillman From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Mon Aug 20 09:19:27 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:19:27 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40708200720p1b39c72u3fe0fc66a2d18572@mail.gmail.com> References: <46C99AAE.80601@hornesystemstx.com> <2400a5d40708200720p1b39c72u3fe0fc66a2d18572@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46C9B0FF.5000906@hornesystemstx.com> Depending on which WISP I can get a signal from I generally use Canopy equipment and have not seen any rain fade at home. My link is just under 15 miles from the tower. I wonder if your WISP has their radios set up for synchronous connectivity. My WISP had problems with drop outs until they synchronized all their equipment. I also have another link using 802.11g that runs to a different WISP, about 5 miles away. It doesn't seem to be as reliable as the Canopy link, but that could be because of the provider, rather than my particular connection. Some of the areas I cover are rather hilly. I have put up several 50' masts on top of buildings to get the antenna high enough to reach a tower. I have some pictures of one installation on my web site, http://www.hornesystemstx.com/Horne%20Systems1.htm if you are interested. If your friend has access to an 802.11 radio and directional antenna, it might be worth pointing it off in all directions to see what he can find. Never can tell where someone will put up a mesh node or WISP antenna. Thusly spake David Scheidt: > On 8/20/07, Pat Horne wrote: > > >> Has your friend looked to see if there is a ground based wireless >> internet provider in the area? Actually, I do installs for this type of >> service for rural folks in the Central Texas area. I've done links up to >> 20 miles from the tower that work just fine. The ground based wireless >> does not go out during rain storms, does not suffer from the delays, and >> usually costs less than satellite service. >> > > He said his friend was in rural Vermont. Unlike Central Texas, > there's terrain there. > > What sort of fixed wireless do you do? I've got service from a > provider using Motorola's Canopy system. It's fast and fairly cheap. > I wouldn't say it's immune from rain fade, though. > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 10:40:10 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:40:10 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satallite Internet Service Message-ID: <082020071640.28940.46C9C3EA000B542E0000710C220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> have only heard bad things from people that have it. downloads can be okay sometimes, but uploads are still on dial-up, apparently. the few I know that had it hated it. one even went back to dial-up. even still, I don't think I could deal with dial-up. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" > *I have an ol' friend in the "outback" of wildest Vermont who can't get DSL > or cable for his internet source and he's getting sick of "dialup" . . He's > heard bad stories from someone on Hughes Satallite and I wonder if any of > the astute collective wisdom of the "Shop Talk" list can comment on their > experience with any of the satallite internet service providers . . * > *We'll appreciate advice.* From scott.hall at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 10:42:54 2007 From: scott.hall at comcast.net (scott.hall at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:42:54 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service Message-ID: <082020071642.3501.46C9C48E00001A8F00000DAD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> we never got that outage with the sat. t.v. (or at least not like the cable companies try to scare you with). our land-line comcast cable, on the other hand, goes out for any and every reason. so much so that the comcast will not be making the transition to the new house, we're on to dsl and dish t.v. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Pat Horne > problems that have not been brought up yet though. Just like the outage > you get on satellite TV when it rains, you have the same problem on the > internet service. From brabel at dlux.net Mon Aug 20 11:37:52 2007 From: brabel at dlux.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:37:52 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service In-Reply-To: <082020071642.3501.46C9C48E00001A8F00000DAD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> References: <082020071642.3501.46C9C48E00001A8F00000DAD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> Message-ID: <64DF3C04-9125-436B-9AB9-4D58303D1B61@dlux.net> I second the opinion of satellite TV vs. cable. I have never lost signal due to weather with my Dish Network service at my beach house. However, my cable service at home is undependable, mainly due to the cable box. It is a Motorola box with HD and DVR capability. It often crashes for no apparent reason, and takes five minutes or so to get back on line. It has frequently done this during recording, and I lose the program. I anticipate buying one of the new TiVo boxes that works on Comcast, since my experience with TiVo is that the box is more responsive and never screws up, and the controls and menu hierarchies are more logical. - Bill Rabel Anacortes, WA > we never got that outage with the sat. t.v. (or at least not like > the cable companies try to scare you with). our land-line comcast > cable, on the other hand, goes out for any and every reason. so > much so that the comcast will not be making the transition to the > new house, we're on to dsl and dish t.v. From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 12:26:53 2007 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:26:53 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service In-Reply-To: <64DF3C04-9125-436B-9AB9-4D58303D1B61@dlux.net> References: <082020071642.3501.46C9C48E00001A8F00000DAD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> <64DF3C04-9125-436B-9AB9-4D58303D1B61@dlux.net> Message-ID: Another option that is gaining momentum is broadband over powerline. DirecTV is looking at it, and Google has dropped some cash into the fray Doesn't help you now, but relief may be on the way! PJ > From: brabel at dlux.net> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:37:52 -0700> To: shop-talk at autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service> > I second the opinion of satellite TV vs. cable. I have never lost > signal due to weather with my Dish Network service at my beach house. > However, my cable service at home is undependable, mainly due to the > cable box. It is a Motorola box with HD and DVR capability. It often > crashes for no apparent reason, and takes five minutes or so to get > back on line. It has frequently done this during recording, and I > lose the program. I anticipate buying one of the new TiVo boxes that > works on Comcast, since my experience with TiVo is that the box is > more responsive and never screws up, and the controls and menu > hierarchies are more logical.> > - Bill Rabel> Anacortes, WA> > > we never got that outage with the sat. t.v. (or at least not like > > the cable companies try to scare you with). our land-line comcast > > cable, on the other hand, goes out for any and every reason. so > > much so that the comcast will not be making the transition to the > > new house, we're on to dsl and dish t.v. _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wl mailtagline From pethier at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 12:40:22 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:40:22 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service Message-ID: <082020071840.28131.46C9E0160008C73800006DE322070215739D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> I have ComCast for the TV and the internet, but I I don't have a cable box. I only have "antenna service" for a bout 10 bucks a month for the TV. No cable box, each TV uses its own tuner. The station numbers are not what people expect, but WE know that the NBC-affiliate Channel 11 really comes in on 22! I rent the Comcast cable modem for my Macintosh and it works fine. I never have to mess with it. From wmc_st at xxiii.com Mon Aug 20 21:21:31 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (wmc_st at xxiii.com) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Satellite Internet Service In-Reply-To: <64DF3C04-9125-436B-9AB9-4D58303D1B61@dlux.net> References: <082020071642.3501.46C9C48E00001A8F00000DAD220076219404040E08D29B9B010C9C@comcast.net> <64DF3C04-9125-436B-9AB9-4D58303D1B61@dlux.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070820231943.026726b8@mailsvr.xxiii.com> At 01:37 PM 8/20/2007, Bill Rabel wrote: >I second the opinion of satellite TV vs. cable. I have never lost >signal due to weather with my Dish Network service at my beach house. Same here. Had Dish Net' for 5.5 years now. Rain does not phase it. Freezing rain and snow on the dish have made it drop out. -Wayne From gsteve at hammatt.com Tue Aug 21 21:26:12 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:26:12 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings Message-ID: <000901c7e46c$318291f0$c600470a@85081388H> I've got an antique car with a Carter BB-1 carb. I need to add a 90 degree brass fitting to the seat assembly. It's currently configured to fit a straight-in 45 degree taper compression fitting for 3/8" (?) copper tubing. I need a 90 degree elbow that will fit the existing taper tubing fitting on one end and accept the same type of tubing on the other. Hope this makes sense I've searched my favorite vendor (McMaster-Carr) but didn't find the necessary piece. BTW, I'm guessing the fuel line size since I'm about 1,000 miles and three states away from the car. Any suggestions out there? Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Aug 22 00:00:39 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:00:39 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings In-Reply-To: <000901c7e46c$318291f0$c600470a@85081388H> Message-ID: <20070822060006.XMTB16955.mta11.adelphia.net@randall> > I've got an antique car with a Carter BB-1 carb. I need to > add a 90 degree brass fitting to the seat assembly. It's > currently configured to fit a straight-in 45 degree taper > compression fitting for 3/8" (?) copper tubing. I need a 90 > degree elbow that will fit the existing taper tubing fitting > on one end and accept the same type of tubing on the other. > Hope this makes sense > I've searched my favorite vendor (McMaster-Carr) but didn't > find the necessary piece. I must not be understanding you correctly, Steve. You want a brass right-angle fitting, with tapered pipe threads on one side; and a compression fitting on the other side, correct ? MMC has them in several varieties; I bought some with 1/8" NPT pipe and "high vibration" 1/4" od compression just a few months ago. 3/8" sounds big to me, but look at MMC P/N 5053K65. http://www.mcmaster.com/addlcontent/cad.asp?PN=5053K65&view=2D&size=2 Randall From gsteve at hammatt.com Wed Aug 22 07:09:13 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:09:13 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings References: <20070822060006.XMTB16955.mta11.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: <001601c7e4bd$a3839550$c600470a@85081388H> I knew this would be confusing! No NPT pipe threads anywhere. The elbow needs to have 45 degree compression fittings on both ends, one end male and the other end female. Hope this is a better description. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall" To: "'Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA'" ; Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:00 PM Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings > >> I've got an antique car with a Carter BB-1 carb. I need to >> add a 90 degree brass fitting to the seat assembly. It's >> currently configured to fit a straight-in 45 degree taper >> compression fitting for 3/8" (?) copper tubing. I need a 90 >> degree elbow that will fit the existing taper tubing fitting >> on one end and accept the same type of tubing on the other. >> Hope this makes sense >> I've searched my favorite vendor (McMaster-Carr) but didn't >> find the necessary piece. > > I must not be understanding you correctly, Steve. You want a brass > right-angle fitting, with tapered pipe threads on one side; and a > compression fitting on the other side, correct ? MMC has them in several > varieties; I bought some with 1/8" NPT pipe and "high vibration" 1/4" od > compression just a few months ago. > > 3/8" sounds big to me, but look at MMC P/N 5053K65. > http://www.mcmaster.com/addlcontent/cad.asp?PN=5053K65&view=2D&size=2 > > Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Wed Aug 22 07:23:14 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:23:14 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings References: <20070822060006.XMTB16955.mta11.adelphia.net@randall> <001601c7e4bd$a3839550$c600470a@85081388H> Message-ID: <00cf01c7e4bf$98a20570$6e01a8c0@KARL> Imperial Eastman has a "Hi Duty" line of female compression fittings. I didn't see exactly what you're describing (because all the compression fittings in that product line are female), but if all you want is function, you could use one of those female compression elbows with a regular male compression union on one side. It'd be a little longer. Or you could cut and braze up something closer. Karl >I knew this would be confusing! > No NPT pipe threads anywhere. > The elbow needs to have 45 degree compression fittings on > both ends, one end male and the other end female. > Hope this is a better description. > > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA >>> I've got an antique car with a Carter BB-1 carb. I need to >>> add a 90 degree brass fitting to the seat assembly. It's >>> currently configured to fit a straight-in 45 degree taper >>> compression fitting for 3/8" (?) copper tubing. I need a 90 >>> degree elbow that will fit the existing taper tubing fitting >>> on one end and accept the same type of tubing on the other. >>> Hope this makes sense >>> I've searched my favorite vendor (McMaster-Carr) but didn't >>> find the necessary piece. From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Aug 22 08:32:13 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:32:13 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings In-Reply-To: <001601c7e4bd$a3839550$c600470a@85081388H> Message-ID: <20070822143139.BNFR16955.mta11.adelphia.net@randall> > The elbow needs to have 45 degree compression fittings on > both ends, one end male and the other end female. > Hope this is a better description. Better, but I'm still confused. I've seen compression fittings with both male & female threads on the fitting; but AFAIK there always has to be a tube for the compression sleeve to fit around, or it's not a compression fitting. I don't see how a compression fitting would mate with a carburetor. Unless you have a tube sticking out from the carb ? Randall From foxtrapper at aceweb.com Wed Aug 22 10:00:06 2007 From: foxtrapper at aceweb.com (Nolan) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:00:06 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings References: <20070822060006.XMTB16955.mta11.adelphia.net@randall> <001601c7e4bd$a3839550$c600470a@85081388H> Message-ID: <001101c7e4d5$829d91c0$7029c40a@mde.state.md.us> I see where and what you mean. This link looks awful interesting with regards to parts for your carburetor. They may well have an elbow like you need. http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/PartsCarter.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings >I knew this would be confusing! > No NPT pipe threads anywhere. > The elbow needs to have 45 degree compression fittings on > both ends, one end male and the other end female. > Hope this is a better description. > > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randall" > To: "'Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA'" ; > > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:00 PM > Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings > > >> >>> I've got an antique car with a Carter BB-1 carb. I need to >>> add a 90 degree brass fitting to the seat assembly. It's >>> currently configured to fit a straight-in 45 degree taper >>> compression fitting for 3/8" (?) copper tubing. I need a 90 >>> degree elbow that will fit the existing taper tubing fitting >>> on one end and accept the same type of tubing on the other. >>> Hope this makes sense >>> I've searched my favorite vendor (McMaster-Carr) but didn't >>> find the necessary piece. >> >> I must not be understanding you correctly, Steve. You want a brass >> right-angle fitting, with tapered pipe threads on one side; and a >> compression fitting on the other side, correct ? MMC has them in several >> varieties; I bought some with 1/8" NPT pipe and "high vibration" 1/4" od >> compression just a few months ago. >> >> 3/8" sounds big to me, but look at MMC P/N 5053K65. >> http://www.mcmaster.com/addlcontent/cad.asp?PN=5053K65&view=2D&size=2 >> >> Randall > _______________________________________________ > foxtrapper at aceweb.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From gsteve at hammatt.com Thu Aug 23 09:11:37 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:11:37 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Fw: Brass fittings (hopefully solved) Message-ID: <000c01c7e597$e7285130$c600470a@85081388H> With everyone's help, I think I've found what I need. Your help is appreciated. http://www.fittingsandadapters.com/90flartoflar.html Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings >I knew this would be confusing! > No NPT pipe threads anywhere. > The elbow needs to have 45 degree compression fittings on > both ends, one end male and the other end female. > Hope this is a better description. > > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randall" > To: "'Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA'" ; > > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:00 PM > Subject: RE: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings > > >> >>> I've got an antique car with a Carter BB-1 carb. I need to >>> add a 90 degree brass fitting to the seat assembly. It's >>> currently configured to fit a straight-in 45 degree taper >>> compression fitting for 3/8" (?) copper tubing. I need a 90 >>> degree elbow that will fit the existing taper tubing fitting >>> on one end and accept the same type of tubing on the other. >>> Hope this makes sense >>> I've searched my favorite vendor (McMaster-Carr) but didn't >>> find the necessary piece. >> >> I must not be understanding you correctly, Steve. You want a brass >> right-angle fitting, with tapered pipe threads on one side; and a >> compression fitting on the other side, correct ? MMC has them in several >> varieties; I bought some with 1/8" NPT pipe and "high vibration" 1/4" od >> compression just a few months ago. >> >> 3/8" sounds big to me, but look at MMC P/N 5053K65. >> http://www.mcmaster.com/addlcontent/cad.asp?PN=5053K65&view=2D&size=2 >> >> Randall From kvacek at ameritech.net Thu Aug 23 09:43:33 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:43:33 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings (hopefully solved) References: <000c01c7e597$e7285130$c600470a@85081388H> Message-ID: <001001c7e59c$5d655790$6e01a8c0@KARL> OK - but that IS a flare fitting, and you said you needed compression. That fitting required you to flare the tube -- a compression fitting uses a compression ring that crimps onto the tube when the fitting is tightened. Just so you get the right thing... Karl > With everyone's help, I think I've found what I need. > Your help is appreciated. > http://www.fittingsandadapters.com/90flartoflar.html From gsteve at hammatt.com Thu Aug 23 10:08:39 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:08:39 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings (hopefully solved) References: <000c01c7e597$e7285130$c600470a@85081388H> <001001c7e59c$5d655790$6e01a8c0@KARL> Message-ID: <001c01c7e59f$e090b850$c600470a@85081388H> Karl You're correct, I knew the problem with trying to communicate was my wrong use of the correct technical terms. I did include the term 45 degree taper but if I'd used the correct "flare" term, it would have been easier. Still strange that McMaster-Carr doesn't have this one available (don't they have everything that anyone could want? Thanks Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Vacek" To: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" ; Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: Re: Brass fittings (hopefully solved) > > OK - but that IS a flare fitting, and you said you needed compression. > That fitting required you to flare the tube -- a compression fitting uses > a compression ring that crimps onto the tube when the fitting is > tightened. > > Just so you get the right thing... > > Karl > > >> With everyone's help, I think I've found what I need. >> Your help is appreciated. >> http://www.fittingsandadapters.com/90flartoflar.html From kvacek at ameritech.net Thu Aug 23 10:28:50 2007 From: kvacek at ameritech.net (Karl Vacek) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:28:50 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings (hopefully solved) References: <000c01c7e597$e7285130$c600470a@85081388H><001001c7e59c$5d655790$6e01a8c0@KARL> <001c01c7e59f$e090b850$c600470a@85081388H> Message-ID: <000c01c7e5a2$b12c94a0$6e01a8c0@KARL> I bet you can find this at the nearest NAPA or plumbing supply right now. Home Dipstick or Lowe's, etc. too. It's a common fitting. Karl > You're correct, I knew the problem with trying to > communicate was my wrong use of the correct > technical terms. I did include the term 45 degree taper > but if I'd used the correct "flare" term, it would have > been easier. > Still strange that McMaster-Carr doesn't have this > one available (don't they have everything that anyone > could want? > Thanks > Steve Hammatt > Mount Vernon WA USA From jmitch at snet.net Sun Aug 26 11:45:46 2007 From: jmitch at snet.net (John Mitchell) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:45:46 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Toll boxes Message-ID: <46D1BC4A.3010006@snet.net> Hi, I'm new to this list and I'm seeking recommendations for a new mechanics tool box. I have an older Craftsman 23" wide unit with 3 stacking pieces and 14 draws. I need more space and cant go any higher without personally growing a foot or more. So, I've been looking at the craftsman 40-41 inch wide models. It seems the new home owner type boxes feel more cheaply made than mine(thin metal) and the professional series are very pricey. Any advice would be appreciated. John Mitchell From gsteve at hammatt.com Sun Aug 26 15:15:09 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:15:09 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings (hopefully solved) References: <000c01c7e597$e7285130$c600470a@85081388H><001001c7e59c$5d655790$6e01a8c0@KARL> <001c01c7e59f$e090b850$c600470a@85081388H> <000c01c7e5a2$b12c94a0$6e01a8c0@KARL> Message-ID: <002901c7e826$2ee661c0$0202a8c0@your52698ciuyt> Actually it's not an easy to find common fitting. Especially since I'm now back home and in the shop and confirmed that my soft copper tubing size is 5/16" (as confirmed by my clamp vice portion of my flaring tool). None of the manufacturer's websites that I've found so far make a 5/16" version; 1/4" and 3/8" yes, but no 5/16". They make SOME other fittings, including a flare-to-flare swivel straight connection in 5/16", but not the 5/16" elbow. Since I'm committed by my existing tubing AND even more so by the 5/16" fitting on the carb seat fitting that I'm attempting to utilize, then apparently I'll have to mickey-mouse all sorts of adapters to accomplish my task of eliminating a large loop in the gravity-feed fuel line or possibly rotate the Carter BB-1 carb 180 degrees! Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Vacek" To: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" ; Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings (hopefully solved) | | | I bet you can find this at the nearest NAPA or plumbing supply right now. | Home Dipstick or Lowe's, etc. too. It's a common fitting. | | Karl snip From lee at automate-it.com Sun Aug 26 15:23:05 2007 From: lee at automate-it.com (Lee Daniels) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:23:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool boxes In-Reply-To: <46D1BC4A.3010006@snet.net> References: <46D1BC4A.3010006@snet.net> Message-ID: <1408.98.200.58.82.1188163385.squirrel@www.automate-it.com> Not sure what you consider "pricey", but I'd look somewhere other than Sears. I have a nice but not-too-nice Blue-Point box (Snap-On low-end) that I really like. But I found the equivalent box at Lowe's, their Kobalt brand, for half the price, and it's so similar that it may be the same. If you're near a Lowe's, take a look, here's an example of one of their nice ones: http://tinyurl.com/2ykj66 - Lee > Hi, I'm new to this list and I'm seeking recommendations for a new > mechanics tool box. I have an older Craftsman 23" wide unit with 3 > stacking pieces and 14 draws. I need more space and cant go any higher > without personally growing a foot or more. So, I've been looking at the > craftsman 40-41 inch wide models. It seems the new home owner type > boxes feel more cheaply made than mine(thin metal) and the professional > series are very pricey. Any advice would be appreciated. John Mitchell From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Sun Aug 26 15:28:51 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:28:51 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tool boxes In-Reply-To: <46D1BC4A.3010006@snet.net> References: <46D1BC4A.3010006@snet.net> Message-ID: <46D1F093.7030704@hornesystemstx.com> Another place to check is your local Craig's list. No telling what yo will find! eBay also has this kind of thing. Peace, Pat Thusly spake John Mitchell: > Hi, I'm new to this list and I'm seeking recommendations for a new > mechanics tool box. I have an older Craftsman 23" wide unit with 3 > stacking pieces and 14 draws. I need more space and cant go any higher > without personally growing a foot or more. So, I've been looking at the > craftsman 40-41 inch wide models. It seems the new home owner type > boxes feel more cheaply made than mine(thin metal) and the professional > series are very pricey. Any advice would be appreciated. John Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > roadsters at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com Mon Aug 27 08:51:16 2007 From: pj_mcgarvey at hotmail.com (PJ McGarvey) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:51:16 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Another weedwacker problem Message-ID: Thanks all for the suggestions awhile back, got the weedwacker running great now, didn't take long to pull everything apart and put it back together. Now, for the second time this year, I've broken the pull cord. Both times it broke at some point close to the "wheel" telling me something is rubbing in there and fraying the cord. But I don't see signs of fraying along the whole rope, only where it broke. Now it's just too short to keep using, and I'd like to use something stronger. Exactly what kind of rope/cord should I be using? Anything the home centers would carry that anyone can recommend? Would a thin piece of cable - maybe something like the brake cable on a bicycle - work OK? I'm thinking I don't want to do this again for quite some time... ;-) Thx, PJ _________________________________________________________________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wl mailtagline From frerichs at tconl.com Mon Aug 27 15:36:32 2007 From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:36:32 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Pulse Chargers and Battery Additives Message-ID: <00d301c7e8f2$58ef35b0$6501a8c0@proteus457> Hi all, I remember that not too many months ago there was a good discussion of pulse chargers, battery additives, and battery maintenance/reconditioning in general. I don't mean to re-open that subject (unless you people want to rehash it), but I'll be darned if I can find those posts in the archives. I now have a cycle battery that is getting weak, and is on the expensive side to replace, so I'd like to try the equipment/methods that were talked about. Can anyone give me some keywords that will allow me to find that discussion and/or point me to some good information? Thanks for your help and for making this list such a good info resource. Mike Frerichs From eabb at loc.gov Mon Aug 27 16:04:57 2007 From: eabb at loc.gov (Eugene D Abbondelo) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:04:57 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Tow vehicle Message-ID: <46D31249020000740001D230@ntgwgate.loc.gov> Tow vehicle topics sometimes come up on the list. I'm looking at buying a 1986 Dodge Ramcharger 150 LE in good condition to use as a tow vehicle. This has a 360 V8 and (I think) factory tow package (how can I tell) and is 2 wheel drive. I've never had a Dodge before, can anyone give me pros and cons on the model? Weak points, etc. Should I "dodge" this model? (sorry...) Gene From rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 27 17:06:59 2007 From: rustymetal at sbcglobal.net (Frank Vantacich) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] Toll boxes In-Reply-To: <46D1BC4A.3010006@snet.net> Message-ID: <59195.41991.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I highly recommend the chests that Tractor Supply Co. sell. The "Clarke" brand are very well made, and are as good or better than Craftsman but less expensive. John Mitchell wrote: Hi, I'm new to this list and I'm seeking recommendations for a new mechanics tool box. I have an older Craftsman 23" wide unit with 3 stacking pieces and 14 draws. I need more space and cant go any higher without personally growing a foot or more. So, I've been looking at the craftsman 40-41 inch wide models. It seems the new home owner type boxes feel more cheaply made than mine(thin metal) and the professional series are very pricey. Any advice would be appreciated. John Mitchell _______________________________________________ rustymetal at sbcglobal.net Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk Frank V. rustymetal at sbcglobal.net From stuart.a.galt at boeing.com Tue Aug 28 08:34:26 2007 From: stuart.a.galt at boeing.com (Galt, Stuart A) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:34:26 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Toll boxes In-Reply-To: <59195.41991.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <46D1BC4A.3010006@snet.net> <59195.41991.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Vantacich [mailto:rustymetal at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 4:07 PM > To: John Mitchell; Shop-talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Toll boxes > > I highly recommend the chests that Tractor Supply Co. sell. > The "Clarke" brand are very well made, and are as good or > better than Craftsman but less expensive. > > John Mitchell wrote: Hi, I'm new to this > list and I'm seeking recommendations for a new mechanics tool > box. I have an older Craftsman 23" wide unit with 3 stacking > pieces and 14 draws. I need more space and cant go any higher > without personally growing a foot or more. So, I've been > looking at the craftsman 40-41 inch wide models. It seems the > new home owner type boxes feel more cheaply made than > mine(thin metal) and the professional series are very pricey. > Any advice would be appreciated. John Mitchell > _______________________________________________ I have had success buying demo/repo/overstock boxes from the snapon dealer. My most recent box was a KLR722 54" wide by 24" deep. It works for me mostly because I am not picky about color, model and am not in a hurry. It was spooky how fast it filled up with tools that "had no home" Stuart. From BSHolden at aol.com Tue Aug 28 10:57:14 2007 From: BSHolden at aol.com (BSHolden at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:57:14 EDT Subject: [Shop-talk] Tow vehicle Message-ID: I have an '86 D250 with ~98,000 miles-360 with 3 spd auto. Have owned it since 1991 and it has been trouble free after having towed a 3 horse gooseneck trailer and the occasional trip hauling the SOLO car. Bart ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- In a message dated 8/27/2007 5:06:06 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eabb at loc.gov writes: Tow vehicle topics sometimes come up on the list. I'm looking at buying a 1986 Dodge Ramcharger 150 LE in good condition to use as a tow vehicle. This has a 360 V8 and (I think) factory tow package (how can I tell) and is 2 wheel drive. I've never had a Dodge before, can anyone give me pros and cons on the model? Weak points, etc. Should I "dodge" this model? (sorry...) Gene ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gsteve at hammatt.com Tue Aug 28 21:16:28 2007 From: gsteve at hammatt.com (Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:16:28 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings (finally solved) References: <000c01c7e597$e7285130$c600470a@85081388H><001001c7e59c$5d655790$6e01a8c0@KARL><001c01c7e59f$e090b850$c600470a@85081388H><000c01c7e5a2$b12c94a0$6e01a8c0@KARL> <002901c7e826$2ee661c0$0202a8c0@your52698ciuyt> Message-ID: <001001c7e9ea$fd8c06e0$0202a8c0@your52698ciuyt> Finally found the correct 5/16" SAE flare-to-flare 90 degree elbow. Weatherhead and Parker don't offer them in their product line, but Aeroquip does. Found a steel version at my local hydraulic hose shop. Thanks everyone for your assistance. Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hammatt, Mount Vernon WA USA" To: Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings (hopefully solved) | Actually it's not an easy to find common fitting. Especially | since I'm now back home and in the shop and | confirmed that my soft copper tubing size is 5/16" | (as confirmed by my clamp vice portion of my flaring tool). | | None of the manufacturer's websites that | I've found so far make a 5/16" version; 1/4" and 3/8" yes, but | no 5/16". They make SOME other fittings, including a | flare-to-flare swivel straight connection in 5/16", but not the | 5/16" elbow. Since I'm committed by my existing tubing AND even | more so by the 5/16" fitting on the carb seat fitting that I'm | attempting to utilize, then apparently I'll have to mickey-mouse | all sorts of adapters to accomplish my task of eliminating a large | loop in the gravity-feed fuel line or possibly rotate the Carter | BB-1 carb 180 degrees! | | Steve Hammatt | Mount Vernon WA USA | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Karl Vacek" | To: "Steve Hammatt Mount Vernon WA USA" ; | | Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:28 AM | Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Brass fittings (hopefully solved) | | || || || I bet you can find this at the nearest NAPA or plumbing supply right | now. || Home Dipstick or Lowe's, etc. too. It's a common fitting. || || Karl | snip snip From eric at megageek.com Tue Aug 28 21:19:15 2007 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:19:15 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: OK, here is the scenario... There is a old refrigerator (from the 70's) that is still running. You want to take it out and render it useless. You don't have lots of time, and you can't leave any trace. Any ideas? (I was thinking of something to spray on the motor bearings to seize them, but I don't know what to use.) Once I get a solution that works, I'll post why I need this. Moose "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." Tori Amos From strovato at optonline.net Tue Aug 28 21:25:38 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:25:38 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: <0JNI001I3MVHBPT0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Why do I feel like I would be aiding in the commission of a felony? -Steven Trovato strovato at optonline.net From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Tue Aug 28 21:32:18 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:32:18 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070829033140.BHRB16016.mta9.adelphia.net@randall> > There is a old refrigerator (from the 70's) that is still > running. You want to take it out and render it useless. You > don't have lots of time, and you can't leave any trace. > > Any ideas? > > (I was thinking of something to spray on the motor bearings > to seize them, but I don't know what to use.) The bearings won't be exposed (unless you mean 1870's). Probably the easiest is to just puncture the system so the R12 leaks out ... although that's a shame both from an environmental point of view and because it's probably got $30 worth of R12 in it. Randall From clmautz at gmail.com Tue Aug 28 21:32:27 2007 From: clmautz at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Q2hpcCBNYXV0eg==?=) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 03:32:27 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <0JNI001I3MVHBPT0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0JNI001I3MVHBPT0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Or someone just wants one of those new tv fridges REALLY bad... :-) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Steven Trovato Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:25:38 To:eric at megageek.com, shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Why do I feel like I would be aiding in the commission of a felony? -Steven Trovato strovato at optonline.net _______________________________________________ clmautz at gmail.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From mark at bradakis.com Tue Aug 28 21:42:00 2007 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J. Bradakis) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:42:00 -0600 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D4EB08.4020406@bradakis.com> Seems to me the biggest problem would be disposing of the body parts before they completely thaw out. Is this fridge running on 110 volts or 220? Be careful, you don't want to accidently burn up the motor. mjb. From frerichs at tconl.com Tue Aug 28 22:53:15 2007 From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:53:15 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <46D4EB08.4020406@bradakis.com> References: <46D4EB08.4020406@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <015501c7e9f8$8526eb30$6501a8c0@proteus457> I thought burning up the motor (or something similar) WAS the idea. Speaking of which, you don't happen to have a decent size transformer sitting around, like for a neon sign? I've never tried this, but I'd guess that a few thousand volts applied to the plug for a short period of time would be the end of the motor. You'd have to be very careful about what the fridge was touching, is there a water line hooked up, etc., etc.... Along the lines of what Steven said, why do I feel like I shouldn't sign this message? Mike Frerichs (Hmmmm...... I think I just noticed some sarcasm in the Mark's message :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark J. Bradakis > > Is this fridge running on 110 volts or 220? Be careful, you don't > want to accidently burn up the motor. From eric at megageek.com Wed Aug 29 06:27:31 2007 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:27:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: OK, here is the deal. My neighbors are a really nice elderly couple. The husband wants to replace their frig, however, the wife doesn't want to spend the money (damn depression survivors!) 8>) So, he is asking me to "take care of it" so it doesn't work anymore. Note, if I just cut a cord, she is likely to call a repairman first and he may find it and fix it. I need to make it NOT work anymore. To make it worst, I only have a small window of time to work, and I can't drag a full refrig to a 220 outlet. I didn't want to dump the coolant because of the environmental aspect of it. So the motor seemed the best angle of attack. I don't have a high output transformer. What size variable speed control would I need to burn it out? How long would it take for the motor to burn out on it? (Again, I have to be in and out.) Some other ideas I have. Hook the ground lead of my wire feed welder to the positive terminal on the plug, turn it up to max power and try to weld the frig body in an unnoticeable spot. This should make the motor body the place that the arch trys to jump. Think it will work? Moose "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." Tori Amos From mbarre at juno.com Wed Aug 29 07:25:00 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:25:00 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: <20070829.092500.1991.1@webmail34.lax.untd.com> THere are typically 2 fans in a fridge - one blows across the coils in the bottom to help lose the heat and the other helps circulate the cold air inside the box. termating either one will make the fridge run warm. I would recommend killing the one in the bottom. In a side by side, typically the vertical partition between the freezer & regular section will become hot to the touch and the fridge won't cool well. This happened to mine recently. I tried to lube the fan but it couldn't be resurrected and just the part cost me almost $90. MB -- eric at megageek.com wrote: OK, here is the deal. My neighbors are a really nice elderly couple. The husband wants to replace their frig, however, the wife doesn't want to spend the money (damn depression survivors!) 8>) From mbarre at juno.com Wed Aug 29 07:30:54 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:30:54 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: <20070829.093054.1991.2@webmail34.lax.untd.com> One other thought - there is typically a relay on the side of the compressor. Unplug the unit then disable the relay. Hopefully given that replacement has been discussed, she won't even consider repair*. Even on relatively new appliances the repair vs replace equation is skewing to the latter with surprising regularity. It seems like regardless of the reason anymore it costs $100 to get someone to come to your house. * Unless she is suspicious. Isn't it a shame that even after many years of marriage some wives always seem to suspect their spouses of deviousness. WHere do they get such ideas :) From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Wed Aug 29 07:43:40 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:43:40 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46D5780C.9080801@hornesystemstx.com> 1- Unplug the frig then remove the electrical connection cover from the compressor and break off one of the 3 pins coming out of the sealed compressor. They have repair kits for this kind of damage, but they don't last all that long and if there is no terminal left sticking out to get hold of, it can't be done...hint, hint, hint.This may mean moving the frig out from the wall, so watch out that the floor doesn't end up with tell[tale marks on it! 2- You may also be able to get to the thermostat and do some wire cutting there, or break the sensing tube, even better. It contains a form of alcohol, which shouldn't pose much of a problem as long as it doesn't end up on visible surfaces. (Some times the alcohol is colored). 3- I would guess that if the frig keeps blowing the breaker as soon as it is reset would do the trick. Just ground the hot power cord lead and plug it back in. The next problem is keeping her from calling a service person out to fix it. Suggestion 1 would be the most expensive to repair, followed by #2, then #3. I suspect that the owners would call a repair shop to come out and check the frig, so why not call the shop ahead of time and let them know that no matter what they find, the frig needs to be declared beyond economical repair. Then also put a note inside by the compressor to remind the repair guy to tell the owner that the frig is beyond repair. Add some cash and to jog his memory and the frig will most likely be history! I don't believe that using a sign transformer would do anything helpful. The current is so low that it would probably kill the transformer before it would have any affect on the frig. You need something high current to do this job "properly"! Peace, Pat Thusly spake eric at megageek.com: > OK, here is the deal. My neighbors are a really nice elderly couple. The > husband wants to replace their frig, however, the wife doesn't want to > spend the money (damn depression survivors!) 8>) > > So, he is asking me to "take care of it" so it doesn't work anymore. Note, > if I just cut a cord, she is likely to call a repairman first and he may > find it and fix it. I need to make it NOT work anymore. > > To make it worst, I only have a small window of time to work, and I can't > drag a full refrig to a 220 outlet. > > I didn't want to dump the coolant because of the environmental aspect of > it. So the motor seemed the best angle of attack. > > I don't have a high output transformer. What size variable speed control > would I need to burn it out? How long would it take for the motor to burn > out on it? (Again, I have to be in and out.) > > Some other ideas I have. > > Hook the ground lead of my wire feed welder to the positive terminal on the > plug, turn it up to max power and try to weld the frig body in an > unnoticeable spot. This should make the motor body the place that the arch > trys to jump. Think it will work? > > > Moose > > "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." > Tori Amos > _______________________________________________ > roadsters at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From nick at landform.co.uk Wed Aug 29 08:04:24 2007 From: nick at landform.co.uk (nick brearley) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:04:24 +0100 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070829140612.442291D97FE@relay.vnet.co.uk> At 13:27 29/08/2007, eric at megageek.com wrote: >OK, here is the deal. My neighbors are a really nice elderly couple. The >husband wants to replace their frig, however, the wife doesn't want to >spend the money (damn depression survivors!) 8>) Any mileage in looking into the economics of replacement before going down the James Bond route? Today's fridges are sold on efficiency and low running costs. I'd have thought a creative accountant could make a pretty good case for replacement of an old machine with a 21st century model. I know that's taking the sport out of it but accountants not engineers rule the world today... Nick Brearley From jniolon at bham.rr.com Wed Aug 29 08:12:19 2007 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:12:19 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6C4C13B3704B4BE79441F011E70AC7CF@OwnerPC> SOMEWHERE IN THE BACKGROUND... MISSION IMPOSSIBLE MUSIC OUGHT TO BE PLAYING JOHN > OK, here is the deal. My neighbors are a really nice elderly couple. The > husband wants to replace their frig, however, the wife doesn't want to > spend the money (damn depression survivors!) 8>) > > So, he is asking me to "take care of it" so it doesn't work anymore. > Note, > if I just cut a cord, she is likely to call a repairman first and he may > find it and fix it. I need to make it NOT work anymore. > > To make it worst, I only have a small window of time to work, and I can't > drag a full refrig to a 220 outlet. > > I didn't want to dump the coolant because of the environmental aspect of > it. So the motor seemed the best angle of attack. > > I don't have a high output transformer. What size variable speed control > would I need to burn it out? How long would it take for the motor to burn > out on it? (Again, I have to be in and out.) > > Some other ideas I have. > > Hook the ground lead of my wire feed welder to the positive terminal on > the > plug, turn it up to max power and try to weld the frig body in an > unnoticeable spot. This should make the motor body the place that the > arch > trys to jump. Think it will work? > > > Moose > > "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." > Tori Amos > _______________________________________________ > jniolon at bham.rr.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From strovato at optonline.net Wed Aug 29 08:24:31 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:24:31 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <6C4C13B3704B4BE79441F011E70AC7CF@OwnerPC> References: <6C4C13B3704B4BE79441F011E70AC7CF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <0JNJ002TCHCL33P0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I assume you have a plan to keep all of their food from spoiling during this sabotage event? Also, no matter what you do, if they're going to call a serviceman, that seems like a big unnecessary expense. If they're not going to call a serviceman, then just disconnecting anything will do the trick. Unless this old lady is a retired engineer or something, she's probably not going to analyze the wiring. From pethier at comcast.net Wed Aug 29 08:46:22 2007 From: pethier at comcast.net (pethier at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:46:22 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: <082920071446.1624.46D586BE000E1CCE0000065822070210539D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> Variac. Turn it up all the way. From eric at megageek.com Wed Aug 29 09:09:00 2007 From: eric at megageek.com (eric at megageek.com) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:09:00 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: Nick, the problem is with people from their generation in the US is that they lived through the Great Depression. They don't like accountants or numbers or anything they can't hold in their hands. What she knows is that she HAS a functioning refrigerator and buying a new one will cost alot of money. There is no amount of reason that can change her perseption. Moose "We all know we're dying, And there's no sign of a parachute." Tori Amos -----nick brearley wrote: ----- To: eric at megageek.com From: nick brearley Date: 08/29/2007 10:04 cc: shop-talk at Autox.Team.Net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator At 13:27 29/08/2007, eric at megageek.com wrote: OK, here is the deal. My neighbors are a really nice elderly couple. The husband wants to replace their frig, however, the wife doesn't want to spend the money (damn depression survivors!) 8>) Any mileage in looking into the economics of replacement before going down the James Bond route? Today's fridges are sold on efficiency and low running costs. I'd have thought a creative accountant could make a pretty good case for replacement of an old machine with a 21st century model. I know that's taking the sport out of it but accountants not engineers rule the world today... Nick Brearley From salbrigh at nycap.rr.com Wed Aug 29 09:14:22 2007 From: salbrigh at nycap.rr.com (Skip Albright) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:14:22 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] removing studs quickly Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070829110958.0285e998@pop.nycap.rr.com> I need to strip a dozen aluminum heads for the scrap drive. I use a socket style stud remover with jaws inside to unscrew the 20 or so studs in each head. but, they require a hand ratchet, impact gun "bounces" or wibbles back and forth and releases the jaws , so the socket just spins. what can I use for a power tool that maintains constant pressure? I have some electric drills, but they dont have enough torque to spin out the studs, unless i pre-loosen them with the ratchet. thanks Skip Nothing is as it appears Skip Albright salbrigh at nycap.rr.com From hillman at planet-torque.com Wed Aug 29 09:18:04 2007 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070829111157.M61268@itonami.pair.com> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, eric at megageek.com wrote: > Nick, the problem is with people from their generation in the US is that > they lived through the Great Depression. They don't like accountants or > numbers or anything they can't hold in their hands. > > What she knows is that she HAS a functioning refrigerator and buying a new > one will cost alot of money. There is no amount of reason that can change > her perseption. Just for the record, I have to ask... I guess telling the husband to strap on a pair, and say something like "Honey, we've been married for 57 years, and I wanted a new 'fridge, so I bought one. Hey, let's donate this perfectly good old one to someone who could use it" is out of the question, right? This has made for one of the most entertaining shop-talk threads in a long time, but it seems really silly. It's not like he's trying to buy himself a Harley or anything... it's a 'fridge. Does she have a birthday or anniversary coming up? There has to be an easier way to fix this problem than clandestinely scuttling an appliance. -- David Hillman From LSAPEX at aol.com Wed Aug 29 09:19:46 2007 From: LSAPEX at aol.com (LSAPEX at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:19:46 EDT Subject: [Shop-talk] removing studs quickly Message-ID: I've used an impact by holding my hand around the stud remover to dampen the blows. An air ratchet works much better. Les. I need to strip a dozen aluminum heads for the scrap drive. I use a socket style stud remover with jaws inside to unscrew the 20 or so studs in each head. but, they require a hand ratchet, impact gun "bounces" or wibbles back and forth and releases the jaws , so the socket just spins. what can I use for a power tool that maintains constant pressure? I have some electric drills, but they dont have enough torque to spin out the studs, unless i pre-loosen them with the ratchet. thanks Skip Nothing is as it appears Skip Albright salbrigh at nycap.rr.com Les apexautoeng.com ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From vlm at te-motorworks.com Wed Aug 29 09:24:24 2007 From: vlm at te-motorworks.com (Vin Marshall) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:24:24 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <20070829111157.M61268@itonami.pair.com> References: <20070829111157.M61268@itonami.pair.com> Message-ID: <23F7E843-47EA-4D97-9E62-7669A61FFA6A@te-motorworks.com> Perhaps the husband just wanted to make an hilarious adventure out of the situation. Sometimes one has to make their own excitement. -vin On Aug 29, 2007, at 11:18 AM, David Hillman wrote: > > Just for the record, I have to ask... I guess telling the > husband to > strap on a pair, and say something like "Honey, we've been married > for 57 > years, and I wanted a new 'fridge, so I bought one. Hey, let's donate > this perfectly good old one to someone who could use it" is out of the > question, right? > > This has made for one of the most entertaining shop-talk > threads in a > long time, but it seems really silly. It's not like he's trying to > buy > himself a Harley or anything... it's a 'fridge. Does she have a > birthday > or anniversary coming up? There has to be an easier way to fix this > problem than clandestinely scuttling an appliance. > > -- > David Hillman > _______________________________________________ > vlm at te-motorworks.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk -- TE Motorworks, Inc. Post Industrial Laboratory 215-426-1447 From robolane at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 29 09:26:10 2007 From: robolane at sbcglobal.net (ROBERT LANE) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: <503874.33232.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Two thoughts, First thought., unplug fridge and lay fridge on back wait a little while and plug back in. Should mess system up and load the compressor, causing it ti burn up. Second thought, unplug, place a rivet or piece of metal between the plug-in blades making contact with blades. to be safe wear some leather gloves or use some insulated pliers and plug back into receptacle. CATCH YOU LATER, ROBO From trevor at boicey.com Wed Aug 29 09:40:48 2007 From: trevor at boicey.com (Trevor Boicey) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:40:48 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <503874.33232.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <503874.33232.qm@web82005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46D59380.9070605@boicey.com> ROBERT LANE wrote: > Two thoughts, First thought., unplug fridge and lay fridge on back wait a > little while and plug back in. Should mess system up and load the compressor, > causing it ti burn up. Second thought, unplug, place a rivet or piece of > metal between the plug-in blades making contact with blades. to be safe wear > some leather gloves or use some insulated pliers and plug back into > receptacle. Find a fan and remove one blade? Cover a spot on some belt with a big glob of tape or epoxy? Surely a really obvious vibration or "other ominous sound" would help convince the wife that it's broken? From clmautz at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 09:47:38 2007 From: clmautz at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?Q2hpcCBNYXV0eg==?=) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:38 +0000 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <23F7E843-47EA-4D97-9E62-7669A61FFA6A@te-motorworks.com> References: <20070829111157.M61268@itonami.pair.com><23F7E843-47EA-4D97-9E62-7669A61FFA6A@te-motorworks.com> Message-ID: So they want to 'spice' up their relationship - wonder what condiment they'll choose? ;-) Chip Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Vin Marshall Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:24:24 To:shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Perhaps the husband just wanted to make an hilarious adventure out of the situation. Sometimes one has to make their own excitement. -vin On Aug 29, 2007, at 11:18 AM, David Hillman wrote: > > Just for the record, I have to ask... I guess telling the > husband to > strap on a pair, and say something like "Honey, we've been married > for 57 > years, and I wanted a new 'fridge, so I bought one. Hey, let's donate > this perfectly good old one to someone who could use it" is out of the > question, right? > > This has made for one of the most entertaining shop-talk > threads in a > long time, but it seems really silly. It's not like he's trying to > buy > himself a Harley or anything... it's a 'fridge. Does she have a > birthday > or anniversary coming up? There has to be an easier way to fix this > problem than clandestinely scuttling an appliance. > > -- > David Hillman > _______________________________________________ > vlm at te-motorworks.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk -- TE Motorworks, Inc. Post Industrial Laboratory 215-426-1447 _______________________________________________ clmautz at gmail.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Aug 29 10:50:19 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:50:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <20070829111157.M61268@itonami.pair.com> Message-ID: <20070829164940.CTEJ19326.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> > Nick, the problem is with people from their generation in the US is > that they lived through the Great Depression. They don't like > accountants or numbers or anything they can't hold in their hands. My late wife's grandparents literally lost their farm, because the county agent talked them into buying a tractor just before the Great Depression hit. When they couldn't make the payments because no one had money to buy their crops, the bank took the entire farm ! (and sold it for pennies on the dollar) > This has made for one of the most entertaining shop-talk > threads in a long time, but it seems really silly. Makes perfect sense to me ... have you priced a decent new refrigerator recently ? Not one of those injection-molded plastic things but with honest glass and copper and steel in it ? I'm actually still unhappy that my SO talked me into getting rid of my old frig ... the new one is significantly lower quality, IMO. Yeah, it no doubt burns less electricity and costs less, ... but it feels like it should have been made in Japan 40 years ago. When we looked at all the popular brands & models, probably 1/3 of them already had something broken just sitting in the showroom. There were 3 different pieces of plastic that broke or popped apart, just moving it into the house. Add to that the price, which could easily be several MONTHS disposable income for a retired couple ... I wouldn't buy a new one either ! Randall From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Aug 29 10:53:48 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:53:48 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] removing studs quickly In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070829110958.0285e998@pop.nycap.rr.com> Message-ID: <20070829165309.DAYI19326.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> > what can I use for a power tool that maintains constant pressure? I haven't tried it, but an air ratchet sounds like it should work. You might have to 'help' it a bit to break the studs loose, but that shouldn't be too big a deal. Randall From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 11:00:19 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:00:19 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <20070829164940.CTEJ19326.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> References: <20070829111157.M61268@itonami.pair.com> <20070829164940.CTEJ19326.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: <2400a5d40708291000v6971d180ief2c3b22405aca05@mail.gmail.com> On 8/29/07, Randall wrote: > > Nick, the problem is with people from their generation in the US is > > Add to that the price, which could easily be several MONTHS disposable > income for a retired couple ... I wouldn't buy a new one either ! Payback for a refrigerator that was built in the 70's is probably a bit less than 2 years. I'd bet the savings are about the cost of financing it. -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From chad at linuxeg.com Wed Aug 29 11:05:45 2007 From: chad at linuxeg.com (Chadwick E. Labno) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:05:45 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <20070829164940.CTEJ19326.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> References: <20070829164940.CTEJ19326.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: <46D5A769.6010104@linuxeg.com> I would think low voltage would cause the motor to over heat which may or may not kill it - thermal overload switch should protect it - but might be worth a try. Calculate the power consumption (watts) and wire a light bulb of equal wattage in series, this will reduce the voltage to (around) half. Alternately, disable the self defrost timer, provided this box is self defrosting. chad From shannah at pobox.com Wed Aug 29 11:19:31 2007 From: shannah at pobox.com (Shannah Miller) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <46D5A769.6010104@linuxeg.com> Message-ID: <513334.44173.qm@web505.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, I'm going to be a maverick and take it from the wife's perspective. Having an appliance that works, and does what I expect it to, in the way I expect it to, is a huge savings in effort every day. Just taking the fridge for example, there are places for pickles, for salad dressings, for ketchup, for milk, and buying a new one means finding all new places for everything. What a hassle. Using this fridge is a no-brainer. I can just open it up and immediately find whatever I want. Then there are the memories. My kids getting tall enough to press the water button by themselves. The time I filled the freezer with popsicles during a very hot week, and the kids thought they'd found treasure. (And maybe they had.) If the husband is the one who does all the cooking, and puts away all the groceries, and all that, then fine, I'm okay with him neutering the fridge and buying a new one. But if it's primarily *her* tool, why destroy it? Don't you have a beloved old tool that you'd hate if your wife got rid of because of some random reason? Cheers to the gentleman who pointed out that the newer fridges break. My MIL has had 3 fridges in the last 5 years, because they keep breaking, and she's really sick of it. I say that if the husband wants to do something nice for the wife, do something she actually *wants*. Shannah From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Wed Aug 29 11:20:19 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:20:19 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40708291000v6971d180ief2c3b22405aca05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070829171941.FAAJ9920.mta10.adelphia.net@randall> > Payback for a refrigerator that was built in the 70's is > probably a bit less than 2 years. I'd bet the savings are > about the cost of financing it. You may be right ... but I sure haven't seen any huge reduction in my electric bill. And what I do see is probably at least 1/2 because the pool has been drained; that 2hp pump draws a lot more than the frig does (even though it doesn't run as much). Let's see, finance $1500 (which wouldn't replace my old frig today with one of equal quality) @ 18% interest, that's about $22.50/month. Just about how much my electric bill went down without the pool pump. Making the payback period longer than I'm likely to live ... Randall From DLambert at anaheim.net Wed Aug 29 11:33:23 2007 From: DLambert at anaheim.net (Dennis Lambert) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:33:23 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40708291000v6971d180ief2c3b22405aca05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50E5E00580DBDB4388098E5448912A93070487FA@EXCHANGEVS1.anaheim.intranet> I didn't live through the great depression, and have the utmost respect for those that did - I've heard the stories and many sound horrific - but I'm still pretty darn cheap. In retrospect, I lived with my 1973 Sears refer much longer than I should have. Yes it was well constructed, but also harvest gold! Finally went to the store and purchased a Kitchen Aide that was more $ than most, but like Randall says, the others looked and felt like they were made from Coke bottles and beer cans. After the purchase, my electricity bill dropped about $25/mo. After rebates, discounts due to a small scratch, and a few bucks the store threw in due to a delivery snafu, my payback was about 2 1/2 years. My local Utility company gave me a $50 rebate for buying an Energy Star appliance, and also gave me $35 for giving them my old, working refer. (They use this program to accumulate pollution credits). One other thing: it sounds like the elderly couple actually have the $ for a new refer or the husband probably wouldn't be trying to sabotage the old one - they are going to be paying for a new one whether the old one breaks or he convinces the wife to just buy one. OTOH, I don't know how old they are - maybe a 2/12 year payback may be too long to consider... Dennis <> <> Add to that the price, which could easily be several MONTHS disposable <> income for a retired couple ... I wouldn't buy a new one either ! < References: <46D5A769.6010104@linuxeg.com> <513334.44173.qm@web505.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ea01c7ea62$bb8ca600$32a5f200$@net> As the proud owner of an ancient slump shouldered Frigidaire that use to be my Great grandparents, I am amazed it still works - I think it was built in the early 50's, and according to all the family history, was moved about 20 times around the country through various generations and family members, and has never had to have a single repair! It is currently at our remote cabin that experiences a lot of power outages and lighting strikes etc, and every other appliance has burned and been replaced over the years except this one - If I could get half this kind of reliability out of any modern appliance I would be astounded. I vote to keep it till it croaks! -----Original Message----- From: shop-talk-bounces+rs1121=earthlink.net at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk-bounces+rs1121=earthlink.net at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Shannah Miller Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:20 PM To: shop-talk at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Well, I'm going to be a maverick and take it from the wife's perspective. Having an appliance that works, and does what I expect it to, in the way I expect it to, is a huge savings in effort every day. From hillman at planet-torque.com Wed Aug 29 11:37:39 2007 From: hillman at planet-torque.com (David Hillman) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <20070829164940.CTEJ19326.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> References: <20070829164940.CTEJ19326.mta15.adelphia.net@randall> Message-ID: <20070829133212.B61268@itonami.pair.com> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Randall wrote: > David Hillman wrote... >> This has made for one of the most entertaining shop-talk >> threads in a long time, but it seems really silly. > > Makes perfect sense to me ... have you priced a decent new refrigerator > recently ? Not one of those injection-molded plastic things but with honest > glass and copper and steel in it ? [snip] > Add to that the price, which could easily be several MONTHS disposable > income for a retired couple ... I wouldn't buy a new one either ! Whoa, that's a whole 'nother discussion. I'm not saying the silly part is buying a new fridge, since they definitely don't make anything like they used to. The silliness is in destroying a perfectly-good fridge that has lasted 30 years just because you can't win an argument with your wife. Either figure out a better argument, or get to like that old fridge... but sneaking around and destroying it just to get a new one ( that'll never last as long, as pointed out ) is just silly. -- David Hillman From frede.thomas2 at verizon.net Wed Aug 29 11:46:23 2007 From: frede.thomas2 at verizon.net (FRED E THOMAS) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:46:23 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Refrig. Message-ID: <002401c7ea64$84922d30$300e7247@fred8kwiskhcfu> Over 90 % of refrigerator failures are compressor related and this happens because the home-owner did not vacumn/clean-out the mechanical area, twice a year I remove the front grill as well as the rear cover and using a venetian blind adapter clean all the dust from underneath, the parts as well as the cooling lines need to have access to air, let it breath, my refrig & a seperate freezer are both over 30 years old and clean underneath, running very well. "FT" From dmscheidt at gmail.com Wed Aug 29 11:49:03 2007 From: dmscheidt at gmail.com (David Scheidt) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:49:03 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <00ea01c7ea62$bb8ca600$32a5f200$@net> References: <46D5A769.6010104@linuxeg.com> <513334.44173.qm@web505.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00ea01c7ea62$bb8ca600$32a5f200$@net> Message-ID: <2400a5d40708291049j721a52aarb4358ec1f6097ba@mail.gmail.com> On 8/29/07, Ron Schmittou wrote: > As the proud owner of an ancient slump shouldered Frigidaire that use to be > my Great grandparents, I am amazed it still works - I think it was built in > the early 50's, and according to all the family history, was moved about 20 > times around the country through various generations and family members, and > has never had to have a single repair! It is currently at our remote cabin > that experiences a lot of power outages and lighting strikes etc, and every > other appliance has burned and been replaced over the years except this one > - If I could get half this kind of reliability out of any modern appliance I > would be astounded. > My grandmother still uses a Frigidaire she bought in the late '40s. I shudder to think what it costs to run! -- David Scheidt dmscheidt at gmail.com From mark at sccaprepared.com Wed Aug 29 12:03:03 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <513334.44173.qm@web505.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <513334.44173.qm@web505.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Howdy, On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Shannah Miller wrote: > I say that if the husband wants to do something nice for the wife, do > something she actually *wants*. FWIW, that's my take on it too, along with a helping of "Man, I'd hate to be the guy in between the old man and his wife _when_ she finds out about this" Mark From wmc_st at xxiii.com Wed Aug 29 12:53:04 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:53:04 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <2400a5d40708291049j721a52aarb4358ec1f6097ba@mail.gmail.com> References: <46D5A769.6010104@linuxeg.com> <513334.44173.qm@web505.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00ea01c7ea62$bb8ca600$32a5f200$@net> <2400a5d40708291049j721a52aarb4358ec1f6097ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46D5C090.1030806@xxiii.com> David Scheidt wrote: > My grandmother still uses a Frigidaire she bought in the late '40s. I > shudder to think what it costs to run! Score one of these guys for $20 and find out: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001 I actually paid $40 for mine; but discovered my HVAC WAY outsucks everything else. -Wayne From roadsters at hornesystemstx.com Wed Aug 29 17:40:46 2007 From: roadsters at hornesystemstx.com (Pat Horne) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:40:46 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator In-Reply-To: <082920071446.1624.46D586BE000E1CCE0000065822070210539D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> References: <082920071446.1624.46D586BE000E1CCE0000065822070210539D0A07089B0A9F@comcast.net> Message-ID: <46D603FE.4040302@hornesystemstx.com> Or turn it down to put out about 70 volts, duplicating a brown out. Peace, Pat Thusly spake pethier at comcast.net: > Variac. Turn it up all the way. > _______________________________________________ > roadsters at hornesystemstx.com > > Shop-talk mailing list > > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk > > > -- Pat Horne, Owner, Horne Systems (512) 797-7501 Voice 5026 FM 2001 Pat at HorneSystemsTx.com Lockhart, TX 78644-4443 www.hornesystemstx.com -- We support Habitat for Humanity - a hand UP, not a hand OUT -- From johnnybh at alltel.net Wed Aug 29 19:43:20 2007 From: johnnybh at alltel.net (Johnny Hinman) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:43:20 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] To kill a refrigerator Message-ID: <46D620B8.7010107@alltel.net> >OK, here is the deal. My neighbors are a really nice elderly couple. The husband wants to replace their frig, however, the wife doesn't want to spend the money (damn depression survivors!) 8>) Anybody who will knowingly take sides in a domestic dispute between a wife and her husband is a lot braver than I. johnnyb From crothfuss at coastalnet.com Thu Aug 30 08:39:40 2007 From: crothfuss at coastalnet.com (crothfuss at coastalnet.com) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:39:40 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang Message-ID: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> We're trying to put together a contest at work for our newsletter, matching shop slang terms to the actual meanings. Things like calling a cutting torch a "smoke wrench", or trim adhesive "Gorilla snot". (Yes, it's been a slow week!) Anybody have any we might not have come up with yet? Know what a "tire root" is? Thanks, Chuck From mark at sccaprepared.com Thu Aug 30 08:45:10 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Howdy, On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, crothfuss at coastalnet.com wrote: > We're trying to put together a contest at work for our newsletter, > matching shop slang terms to the actual meanings. Things like calling a > cutting torch a "smoke wrench", or trim adhesive "Gorilla snot". (Yes, > it's been a slow week!) I'd always heard it called "the blue wrench". Seems like my mechanic buddies say "tor -- x" vs. "torx" Pickle fork instead of ball joint separator. Side cutters instead of wire snips or diagonal cutters or whatever they're really called. I'm sure there's more (and that they're different) Mark From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Thu Aug 30 08:48:53 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:48:53 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20070830144814.XKAU16499.mta16.adelphia.net@randall> > Know what a "tire root" is? Never heard of that, any relation to a left-handed monkey wrench ? Or muffler bearings ? Metric hammer ? Never heard "smoke wrench" for that matter, we always called it the "flaming wrench". Sorry, having a mental block; all I can think of is pickle fork. Randall From frerichs at tconl.com Thu Aug 30 11:33:43 2007 From: frerichs at tconl.com (Mike Frerichs) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:33:43 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> I've often heard wire cutters referred to as dykes (dikes?). I'm not even going to hazard a guess as to how that name came about. Mike Frerichs > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Andy > > Side cutters instead of wire snips or diagonal cutters or whatever they're > really called. From jniolon at bham.rr.com Thu Aug 30 11:37:42 2007 From: jniolon at bham.rr.com (john niolon) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:37:42 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dykes In-Reply-To: <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> Message-ID: <3777D9C6185541878DB9AB9A07B18427@OwnerPC> from wikipedia... Dykes - as in the phrase "a pair of dykes" - is jargon used especially in the electrical industry, to describe diagonal pliers. It is a corruption of "diagonal cutters". Dyke can also be used as a verb, such as in the idiom "when in doubt, dyke it out." This implies that a problem can be simplified by eliminating the unnecessary. > I've often heard wire cutters referred to as dykes (dikes?). I'm not even > going to hazard a guess as to how that name came about. > > Mike Frerichs > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mark Andy >> >> Side cutters instead of wire snips or diagonal cutters or whatever >> they're >> really called. > _______________________________________________ > jniolon at bham.rr.com From LSAPEX at aol.com Thu Aug 30 11:42:47 2007 From: LSAPEX at aol.com (LSAPEX at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:42:47 EDT Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang Message-ID: Maybe local. "flat valve" The hammering chisel for a pneumatic chisel gun. Looks like an engine valve. Les apexautoeng.com ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Mog8 at oh.rr.com Thu Aug 30 12:25:41 2007 From: Mog8 at oh.rr.com (Mog8) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:25:41 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> Message-ID: <000201c7eb33$2c148430$0202a8c0@your1exc7pzdtp> Mike Dikes is short for diagonal cutters. At least, that's what I've been told. Gary Kneisley > -----Original Message----- > From: shop-talk-bounces+mog8=oh.rr.com at autox.team.net [mailto:shop-talk- > bounces+mog8=oh.rr.com at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mike Frerichs > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:34 PM > To: shop-talk at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang > > I've often heard wire cutters referred to as dykes (dikes?). I'm not even > going to hazard a guess as to how that name came about. > > Mike Frerichs > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Andy > > > > Side cutters instead of wire snips or diagonal cutters or whatever > they're > > really called. From mark at sccaprepared.com Thu Aug 30 12:31:43 2007 From: mark at sccaprepared.com (Mark Andy) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> Message-ID: Howdy, On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Mike Frerichs wrote: > I've often heard wire cutters referred to as dykes (dikes?). I'm not > even going to hazard a guess as to how that name came about. To me, dkyes are those pliers that look like side cutters, but still have big gripping ends out past the cutting edges. I think they might normally be called 'linesman pliers'? Mark From strovato at optonline.net Thu Aug 30 12:33:13 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:33:13 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Dykes In-Reply-To: <3777D9C6185541878DB9AB9A07B18427@OwnerPC> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> <3777D9C6185541878DB9AB9A07B18427@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <0JNL00CXTNJAVED0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> This made me curious enough to look up the origin of the other meaning of the term. Much more obscure, but interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyke_(lesbian) -Steve From jem at milleredp.com Thu Aug 30 13:39:03 2007 From: jem at milleredp.com (John Miller) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:39:03 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> Message-ID: <46D71CD7.3050803@milleredp.com> Mike Frerichs wrote: > I've often heard wire cutters referred to as dykes (dikes?). I'm not even > going to hazard a guess as to how that name came about. Short for 'diagonals'. Ford Wrench = BFH BFH = Big Forceful Hammer C*nt hair = unit of measurement denoting small distance Red c*nt hair or RCH = unit of measurement denoting very small distance Gas axe = cutting torch Cherry picker = crane-type engine hoist I'm sure a few more will turn up... John. From strovato at optonline.net Thu Aug 30 13:54:44 2007 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:54:44 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <46D71CD7.3050803@milleredp.com> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <000601c7eb2b$e9648ab0$6701a8c0@proteus457> <46D71CD7.3050803@milleredp.com> Message-ID: <0JNL00BRYRB267Z0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> >BFH = Big Forceful Hammer That's not what I heard the "F" is for. :-) >C*nt hair = unit of measurement denoting small distance > >Red c*nt hair or RCH = unit of measurement denoting very small distance CRCH = Curly Red... From dhlocker at comcast.net Thu Aug 30 15:56:47 2007 From: dhlocker at comcast.net (Donald H Locker) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:56:47 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46D73D1F.3010000@comcast.net> Fits-all for an adjustable spanner. Son-of-a-b.... for almost any tool that won't behave. But I've never heard of a tire root. Donald. crothfuss at coastalnet.com wrote: > We're trying to put together a contest at work for our newsletter, matching shop slang terms to the actual meanings. Things like calling a cutting torch a "smoke wrench", or trim adhesive "Gorilla snot". (Yes, it's been a slow week!) > > Anybody have any we might not have come up with yet? > > Know what a "tire root" is? > > Thanks, > > Chuck From eltonclark at gmail.com Thu Aug 30 16:31:35 2007 From: eltonclark at gmail.com (Elton E. (Tony) Clark) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:31:35 -0500 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <46D73D1F.3010000@comcast.net> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46D73D1F.3010000@comcast.net> Message-ID: *Wull, ball-joint separators might be known as "pickle forks" in SOME effete areas of the nation but in the earthier regions, they are known as "possum peckers". One may check out the applicability of the term by researching the anatomy of the Opossum. * From wmc_st at xxiii.com Thu Aug 30 17:11:17 2007 From: wmc_st at xxiii.com (Wayne) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:11:17 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46D73D1F.3010000@comcast.net> Message-ID: <46D74E95.3000008@xxiii.com> Elton E. (Tony) Clark wrote: > *Wull, ball-joint separators might be known as "pickle forks" in SOME effete There was a whole thread on this just last January: "New theory of mine (humor, hoping to start a fun thread)" http://www.team.net/mharc/archives/html/shop-talk/2007-01/threads.html#00051 -Wayne From crothfuss at coastalnet.com Fri Aug 31 06:03:04 2007 From: crothfuss at coastalnet.com (crothfuss at coastalnet.com) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:03:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang Message-ID: <4929327.1188561785068.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hot Damn Elton, "Possum Pecker"!! That's one I'd never heard. I may be the only guy in the shop that immediately knew why you'd call it that, but I'm probably the only one with cats and possums living under their house. Our new car delevery guy has coined the term "Ho" for cars that the porters leave "hanging out in the street." Thanks to all for the help with this. Great stuff. Chuck -----Original Message----- >From: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" >*Wull, ball-joint separators might be known as "pickle forks" in SOME effete >areas of the nation but in the earthier regions, they are known as "possum >peckers". From brabel at dlux.net Fri Aug 31 11:01:52 2007 From: brabel at dlux.net (Bill Rabel) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:01:52 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] auto shop slang In-Reply-To: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <26893668.1188484781034.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I always have a 'brown wrench' near my bench for those weekend projects, namely a bottle of beer. - Bill Rabel Anacortes, WA > We're trying to put together a contest at work for our newsletter, > matching shop slang terms to the actual meanings. Things like > calling a cutting torch a "smoke wrench", or trim adhesive "Gorilla > snot". (Yes, it's been a slow week!) From mmeany at ne.rr.com Fri Aug 31 14:38:40 2007 From: mmeany at ne.rr.com (Mark Meany) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:38:40 -0400 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off Topic? Any video gurus out there? Message-ID: <008001c7ec0e$f0622690$6601a8c0@meansterq9coh8> Can anyone suggest what is the optimal format for viewing .jpegs off a DVD player which is being fed into a video projector? I'm trying to emulate what I do with my 35mm slides & slide projector but doing so, now, with my digital camera images. What I've been able to come up with is a 1080p Upconvert DVD player with an HDMI output (an LG DN798) fed into an HDMI capable Mitsubishi HC1500 projector. I don't have the smarts to know whether this is overkill or not; I'm just relying on what I've about HDMI vs. the analog component & S video interfaces. I'm also trying to avoid buying a laptop as the feed source, if I can, to save $$. The set up I just mentioned is < $1100. Thanks in advance... Mark Meany Keene, NH '65 TR4A IRS O From tr3driver at ca.rr.com Fri Aug 31 16:41:55 2007 From: tr3driver at ca.rr.com (Randall) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:41:55 -0700 Subject: [Shop-talk] Off Topic? Any video gurus out there? In-Reply-To: <008001c7ec0e$f0622690$6601a8c0@meansterq9coh8> References: <008001c7ec0e$f0622690$6601a8c0@meansterq9coh8> Message-ID: <00c701c7ec20$21c0caa0$6a5636cc@jdnet.deere.com> > The set up I > just mentioned > is < $1100. I don't even know what an HDMI output is (so no help there), but you can get a new laptop for that price. PC Mag listed one for $1000 in the last issue (although they liked the $1100 one better). Randall From mbarre at juno.com Fri Aug 31 19:18:47 2007 From: mbarre at juno.com (Matt) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 01:18:47 GMT Subject: [Shop-talk] Off Topic? Any video gurus out there? Message-ID: <20070831.211847.21961.0@webmail36.lax.untd.com> Kind of need to know what you mean by best. Are you looking to maximize quality of image, fit as many pix as possible on a DVD, or speed of play? Sounds like it will largely depend on what your player will show for you. Older players may not even have a still picture capability. Many newer ones can convert a wide range of formats. A lot of flat screen TVs now simply have USB ports into which you plug a jump drive for immediate slide shows... Won't be long before the projectors have that as well. MB -- "Mark Meany" wrote: Can anyone suggest what is the optimal format for viewing .jpegs off a DVD player which is being fed into a video projector? I'm trying to emulate what I do with my 35mm slides & slide projector but doing so, now, with my digital camera images. What I've been able to come up with is a 1080p Upconvert DVD player with an HDMI output (an LG DN798) fed into an HDMI capable Mitsubishi HC1500 projector. I don't have the smarts to know whether this is overkill or not; I'm just relying on what I've about HDMI vs. the analog component & S video interfaces. I'm also trying to avoid buying a laptop as the feed source, if I can, to save $$. The set up I just mentioned is < $1100. Thanks in advance... Mark Meany Keene, NH '65 TR4A IRS O _______________________________________________ mbarre at juno.com Shop-talk mailing list http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/shop-talk