From nobbc at sonic.net  Tue Jul  1 00:27:08 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:27:08 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Marin Ride on July 4th
Message-ID: <4869CE3C.4070401@sonic.net>

Kurt asked me to forward this to the list as he STILL hasn't joined! His 
email address is below for any questions.

Ron

**********************************************************************

Hi Ron, I am making a "Run for the Oysters" on the 4th of July. Leaving 
San Anselmo/ Fairfax at 9:30 am to Drake's Bay Oyster Co. (formerly 
Johnson's but all cleaned up and pretty now) and expect to be back 
around noon. Oysters make a great BBQ addition for your 4th of July 
festivities.

Anyone wanting to come along meet at Java Hut, (closed Albertson's 
parking lot) in Fairfax. Starting place is 760 Center Blvd Fairfax, CA 
94930, across the street from the Fairfax Post Office.Please email me if 
you are coming.

klhoush at comcast.net
See you there!

Kurt Housh
'73 Jensen Healey

From sand at frii.com  Fri Jul  4 19:18:14 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:18:14 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-
Message-ID: <3491438E04754F70A98B8C56E6F9AE9F@stevewbxu6x2qe>

there you go nobbc-
it,s done-
steve and dee hitched-
leaugle-done-
july 4th-2008-12:15 p.m.

From nobbc at sonic.net  Fri Jul  4 19:27:44 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:27:44 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-
In-Reply-To: <3491438E04754F70A98B8C56E6F9AE9F@stevewbxu6x2qe>
References: <3491438E04754F70A98B8C56E6F9AE9F@stevewbxu6x2qe>
Message-ID: <486ECE10.40300@sonic.net>

Congratulations! Hope you're driving your TR4 on your honeymoon.

Ron

Steve Lehmann wrote:
> there you go nobbc-
> it,s done-
> steve and dee hitched-
> leaugle-done-
> july 4th-2008-12:15 p.m.
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From sand at frii.com  Fri Jul  4 19:49:16 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:49:16 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-
References: <3491438E04754F70A98B8C56E6F9AE9F@stevewbxu6x2qe>
	<486ECE10.40300@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <6484B3DF71714DDD90594E120DF9D3CB@stevewbxu6x2qe>

wont fit down hallway-
it,s in garage now-
+ the brides mom is here-
not just that but it aint nothing i aint seen b-4-
how u like that-
my wedding night and im sending you guys e-mail-
now you know in married 4 shure!!!!!!
forward this to all mron!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Engelhardt" <nobbc at sonic.net>
To: "North Bay British Car Club" <nobbc at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-


> Congratulations! Hope you're driving your TR4 on your honeymoon.
> 
> Ron
> 
> Steve Lehmann wrote:
>> there you go nobbc-
>> it,s done-
>> steve and dee hitched-
>> leaugle-done-
>> july 4th-2008-12:15 p.m.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From lstokelyus at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 10:19:13 2008
From: lstokelyus at yahoo.com (Linda Stokely)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 09:19:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-
Message-ID: <835739.13876.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have asked several times to be removed from the NOBBC list so that I don't
get all these conversations, but apparently I'm on people's individual lists. 
Could you please remove me from whatever response list you are using? 
Thank
you so kindly.
lstokelyus at yahoo.com 



----- Original Message ----
From:
Steve Lehmann <sand at frii.com>
To: North Bay British Car Club
<nobbc at autox.team.net>
Cc: o.dawg <bodaciousdawg at webtv.net>
Sent: Friday, July
4, 2008 6:49:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-

wont
fit down hallway-
it,s in garage now-
+ the brides mom is here-
not just that
but it aint nothing i aint seen b-4-
how u like that-
my wedding night and im
sending you guys e-mail-
now you know in married 4 shure!!!!!!
forward this to
all mron!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Engelhardt"
<nobbc at sonic.net>
To: "North Bay British Car Club" <nobbc at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and
dee hitched-


> Congratulations! Hope you're driving your TR4 on your
honeymoon.
> 
> Ron
> 
> Steve Lehmann wrote:
>> there you go nobbc-
>> it,s
done-
>> steve and dee hitched-
>> leaugle-done-
>> july 4th-2008-12:15 p.m.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>>
Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
>
_______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
>
Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From lstokelyus at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 10:19:31 2008
From: lstokelyus at yahoo.com (Linda Stokely)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 09:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-
Message-ID: <186628.42826.qm@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have asked several times to be removed from the NOBBC list so that I don't
get all these conversations, but apparently I'm on people's individual lists. 
Could you please remove me from whatever response list you are using? 
Thank
you so kindly.
lstokelyus at yahoo.com 




----- Original Message ----
From: Ron
Engelhardt <nobbc at sonic.net>
To: North Bay British Car Club
<nobbc at autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, July 4, 2008 6:27:44 PM
Subject: Re:
[Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-

Congratulations! Hope you're driving
your TR4 on your honeymoon.

Ron

Steve Lehmann wrote:
> there you go nobbc-
>
it,s done-
> steve and dee hitched-
> leaugle-done-
> july 4th-2008-12:15 p.m.
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
>
Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From nobbc at sonic.net  Sat Jul  5 10:32:59 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 09:32:59 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-
In-Reply-To: <835739.13876.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <835739.13876.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <486FA23B.40001@sonic.net>

Linda (and anyone else interested), At the bottom of each email from the 
list is a link to the list manager:

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

Subscribing and unsubscribing can be done from there. I've gone in and 
unsubscribed you (Linda) so you won't need to do this and you won't 
receive Nobbc list email.

Ron
58 MGA


Linda Stokely wrote:
> I have asked several times to be removed from the NOBBC list so that I don't
> get all these conversations, but apparently I'm on people's individual lists. 
> Could you please remove me from whatever response list you are using? 
> Thank
> you so kindly.
> lstokelyus at yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From:
> Steve Lehmann <sand at frii.com>
> To: North Bay British Car Club
> <nobbc at autox.team.net>
> Cc: o.dawg <bodaciousdawg at webtv.net>
> Sent: Friday, July
> 4, 2008 6:49:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and dee hitched-
> 
> wont
> fit down hallway-
> it,s in garage now-
> + the brides mom is here-
> not just that
> but it aint nothing i aint seen b-4-
> how u like that-
> my wedding night and im
> sending you guys e-mail-
> now you know in married 4 shure!!!!!!
> forward this to
> all mron!!!!!!!!!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ron Engelhardt"
> <nobbc at sonic.net>
> To: "North Bay British Car Club" <nobbc at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] it,s done-steve and
> dee hitched-
> 
> 
> 
>>Congratulations! Hope you're driving your TR4 on your
> 
> honeymoon.
> 
>>Ron
>>
>>Steve Lehmann wrote:
>>
>>>there you go nobbc-
>>>it,s
> 
> done-
> 
>>>steve and dee hitched-
>>>leaugle-done-
>>>july 4th-2008-12:15 p.m.
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Nobbc mailing list
>>>
> 
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> 
>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
>>
> _______________________________________________
> 
>>Nobbc mailing list
>>
> 
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> 
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From sand at frii.com  Mon Jul  7 18:24:29 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 18:24:29 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] hey gang-lil help...........
Message-ID: <51AEFD6A28DF448299B019FFB966D68C@stevewbxu6x2qe>

any cali. d.m.v. hot shots in the club???
looking for help w/a motorcycle registration issue-if so please reply direct.
tx-
steve-colorado.
sand at frii.com

From nobbc at sonic.net  Tue Jul  8 21:44:32 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (nobbc at sonic.net)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:44:32 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday
Message-ID: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>

	  BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
 This coming Saturday is the second of the month and our scheduled
ride day. We'll meet at 10AM in the commuter lot just west of 101 on
River Rd. No one has suggested a destination (yet) so the group
present will decide. It's been a long time since we've headed to the
coast, might be a good destination if the weather continues to be
warm. If anyone has any suggestions, pipe up!

	Ron

	58 MGA

From fawn220 at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 08:28:30 2008
From: fawn220 at comcast.net (John Kenner)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 07:28:30 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday
In-Reply-To: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
References: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <001201c8e1d0$13774590$3a65d0b0$@net>

HOW ABOUT 10:30 INSTEAD OF 10?

JOHN

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of nobbc at sonic.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:45 PM
To: nobbc at autox.team.net
Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday

	  BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
 This coming Saturday is the second of the month and our scheduled
ride day. We'll meet at 10AM in the commuter lot just west of 101 on
River Rd. No one has suggested a destination (yet) so the group
present will decide. It's been a long time since we've headed to the
coast, might be a good destination if the weather continues to be
warm. If anyone has any suggestions, pipe up!

	Ron

	58 MGA
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From sand at frii.com  Wed Jul  9 08:32:03 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 08:32:03 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday
References: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net> <001201c8e1d0$13774590$3a65d0b0$@net>
Message-ID: <6C98E343087642A092A6EA03925E775B@stevewbxu6x2qe>

morning from colo-live jhon-
steve.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Kenner" <fawn220 at comcast.net>
To: "'North Bay British Car Club'" <nobbc at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday


> HOW ABOUT 10:30 INSTEAD OF 10?
>
> JOHN
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net] 
> On
> Behalf Of nobbc at sonic.net
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:45 PM
> To: nobbc at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday
>
>   BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
> This coming Saturday is the second of the month and our scheduled
> ride day. We'll meet at 10AM in the commuter lot just west of 101 on
> River Rd. No one has suggested a destination (yet) so the group
> present will decide. It's been a long time since we've headed to the
> coast, might be a good destination if the weather continues to be
> warm. If anyone has any suggestions, pipe up!
>
> Ron
>
> 58 MGA
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc 

From bluesson at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 12:17:16 2008
From: bluesson at hotmail.com (Tom Reier)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 11:17:16 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday
In-Reply-To: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
References: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <BLU123-W23CBED41DA63CF4B30560D0960@phx.gbl>

  This Saturday ten a.m. to four p.m. the Penngrove Power and Implement Museum
is having an open house. Yeah, there's admission I think...maybe three to five
bucks?? Not sure, but not much. They acquired one of the Pratt and Whitney
R4360 engines off the Spruce Goose (Howard Hughes' huge seaplane transport).
This is a twenty eight (28!) cylinder radial engine, and they will be firing
it up, along with most every other engine on display. BTW, this is a real
family deal. They even have a steam train that runs the perimeter of the
property for the kids to ride on. Adress is 200 PHillips Drive, Penngrove. If
you're on Petaluma Hill Road heading south through Penngrove, you go left at
the old redwood highway (by the fire station) and proceed UP the hill across
the road. See you all there. (Yes, that's where I'm going. You guys are
missing a real treat if you pass this up).
                                           Tom> To: nobbc at autox.team.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:44:32 -0700> From: nobbc at sonic.net> Subject: [Nobbc]
Reminder: Ride Saturday> > BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:12px; }> This coming Saturday is the second of the month
and our scheduled> ride day. We'll meet at 10AM in the commuter lot just west
of 101 on> River Rd. No one has suggested a destination (yet) so the group>
present will decide. It's been a long time since we've headed to the> coast,
might be a good destination if the weather continues to be> warm. If anyone
has any suggestions, pipe up!> > Ron> > 58 MGA>
_______________________________________________> Nobbc mailing list>
Nobbc at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_
Refresh_messenger_video_072008

From gtwincams at pacbell.net  Wed Jul  9 12:41:08 2008
From: gtwincams at pacbell.net (gtwincams)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:41:08 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday
In-Reply-To: <BLU123-W23CBED41DA63CF4B30560D0960@phx.gbl>
References: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
	<BLU123-W23CBED41DA63CF4B30560D0960@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <48750644.6050809@pacbell.net>

Hi Tom and group,
That sounds like fun. How often do they have open house events?
Trish and I won't make the drives this month - working 6-7 days a week 
through the end of July. Can't complain - pays for parts!
Cheers,
Greg


Tom Reier wrote:
>   This Saturday ten a.m. to four p.m. the Penngrove Power and Implement Museum
> is having an open house. Yeah, there's admission I think...maybe three to five
> bucks?? Not sure, but not much. They acquired one of the Pratt and Whitney
> R4360 engines off the Spruce Goose (Howard Hughes' huge seaplane transport).
> This is a twenty eight (28!) cylinder radial engine, and they will be firing
> it up, along with most every other engine on display. BTW, this is a real
> family deal. They even have a steam train that runs the perimeter of the
> property for the kids to ride on. Adress is 200 PHillips Drive, Penngrove. If
> you're on Petaluma Hill Road heading south through Penngrove, you go left at
> the old redwood highway (by the fire station) and proceed UP the hill across
> the road. See you all there. (Yes, that's where I'm going. You guys are
> missing a real treat if you pass this up).

From bluesson at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 12:47:59 2008
From: bluesson at hotmail.com (Tom Reier)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 11:47:59 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday
In-Reply-To: <48750644.6050809@pacbell.net>
References: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
	<BLU123-W23CBED41DA63CF4B30560D0960@phx.gbl> 
	<48750644.6050809@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <BLU123-W3138D32C81B279BAA7D256D0960@phx.gbl>

 They had a fundraiser a while back, but over the last ten years they've held
the open house just once every TWO years.> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 11:41:08
-0700> From: gtwincams at pacbell.net> To: nobbc at autox.team.net> Subject: Re:
[Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday> > Hi Tom and group,> That sounds like fun.
How often do they have open house events?> Trish and I won't make the drives
this month - working 6-7 days a week > through the end of July. Can't complain
- pays for parts!> Cheers,> Greg> > > Tom Reier wrote:> > This Saturday ten
a.m. to four p.m. the Penngrove Power and Implement Museum> > is having an
open house. Yeah, there's admission I think...maybe three to five> > bucks??
Not sure, but not much. They acquired one of the Pratt and Whitney> > R4360
engines off the Spruce Goose (Howard Hughes' huge seaplane transport).> > This
is a twenty eight (28!) cylinder radial engine, and they will be firing> > it
up, along with most every other engine on display. BTW, this is a real> >
family deal. They even have a steam train that runs the perimeter of the> >
property for the kids to ride on. Adress is 200 PHillips Drive, Penngrove. If>
> you're on Petaluma Hill Road heading south through Penngrove, you go left
at> > the old redwood highway (by the fire station) and proceed UP the hill
across> > the road. See you all there. (Yes, that's where I'm going. You guys
are> > missing a real treat if you pass this up).>
_______________________________________________> Nobbc mailing list>
Nobbc at autox.team.net> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_________________________________________________________________
Making the world a better place one message at a time.
http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace

From nobbc at sonic.net  Wed Jul  9 14:42:54 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (nobbc at sonic.net)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:42:54 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Reminder: Ride Saturday
Message-ID: <20683.1215636174@sonic.net>

 On Wed 09/07/08  7:28 AM , "John Kenner" fawn220 at comcast.net sent:
> HOW ABOUT 10:30 INSTEAD OF 10?
>
> JOHN

Heh, we meet at 10 but NEVER leave at 10 and we're lucky to leave by 10:30!

Ron

From sand at frii.com  Fri Jul 11 06:35:44 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:35:44 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] penngrove saturday-nobbc
Message-ID: <0B3CBAA20F1E4CBD93F80DE7A71CA4F4@stevewbxu6x2qe>

someone fire me pics!!!
tx-
steve-
sand at frii.com

From tsthresh at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 15:33:28 2008
From: tsthresh at hotmail.com (Tim Thresh)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:33:28 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] MG TD review
In-Reply-To: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
	<BLU123-W23CBED41DA63CF4B30560D0960@phx.gbl>
References: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
	<BLU123-W23CBED41DA63CF4B30560D0960@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY126-DS63D94F1768E6A6582ADE4D8900@phx.gbl>

Well, we all care about older cars don't we......??!!  Check this out

 < http://www.cartalk.com/content/testdrives/Reviews/mgtd.html >


Sorry that I won't be able to join the ride tomorrow. My MGA is running well 
again but I only get time to play during the work week (for the rest of you 
that is). C'est la vie, as we B&B owners would say.

Tim Thresh

From dawson at authorspublishing.com  Fri Jul 11 16:05:47 2008
From: dawson at authorspublishing.com (Dawson Church)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:05:47 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] MG TD review
In-Reply-To: <BAY126-DS63D94F1768E6A6582ADE4D8900@phx.gbl>
References: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
	<BLU123-W23CBED41DA63CF4B30560D0960@phx.gbl>
	<BAY126-DS63D94F1768E6A6582ADE4D8900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C6AB0B63-037C-468F-B04D-F8DD841EE2E5@authorspublishing.com>

Laughed till the tears ran from my eyes!

Dawson


On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Tim Thresh wrote:

> Well, we all care about older cars don't we......??!!  Check this out
>
> < http://www.cartalk.com/content/testdrives/Reviews/mgtd.html >
>
>
> Sorry that I won't be able to join the ride tomorrow. My MGA is  
> running well
> again but I only get time to play during the work week (for the rest  
> of you
> that is). C'est la vie, as we B&B owners would say.
>
> Tim Thresh
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From nobbc at sonic.net  Fri Jul 11 16:32:42 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:32:42 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] MG TD review
In-Reply-To: <BAY126-DS63D94F1768E6A6582ADE4D8900@phx.gbl>
References: <16954.1215575072@sonic.net>
	<BLU123-W23CBED41DA63CF4B30560D0960@phx.gbl>
	<BAY126-DS63D94F1768E6A6582ADE4D8900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4877DF8A.40307@sonic.net>

Heh, I've read this before and it's still as funny as the first time.

Sorry you won't be able to make it tomorrow Tim. Maybe you should 
schedule mid-week club rides for those with a flexible work situation.

Ron
58 MGA

Tim Thresh wrote:

> Well, we all care about older cars don't we......??!!  Check this out
> 
>  < http://www.cartalk.com/content/testdrives/Reviews/mgtd.html >
> 
> 
> Sorry that I won't be able to join the ride tomorrow. My MGA is running well 
> again but I only get time to play during the work week (for the rest of you 
> that is). C'est la vie, as we B&B owners would say.
> 
> Tim Thresh

From sand at frii.com  Mon Jul 14 21:32:53 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:32:53 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] nobbc 7th aaniversary drive event-maybe
Message-ID: <10F596A3ED7843039C033A34248F2932@stevewbxu6x2qe>

just a big maybe-
call it a dream-
guys i would dearley love to come down w/tr4-a,
but i just cant say-
in battle w/ social security for funds-
been to govenors office-senator musgraves office-senator wayne allards
office-
loveland newspaper-rep salasars office-
and still same poop-wait 5 months,your pre approved-
nothing we can do for you.
so still zero income-

having proplems w/raidiation treatments,
groin tumors poping up faster than can be "zapped"
and we dont know why-
cant start cemo till raidiation done-
cant do surgury and remove spearm tubes and testicles.
pain killers not working-

did another cat scan m.r.i. today and will go back to drawing board in morn.
w/ all the so called pros.

perhaps before cemo-if i so elect to do cemo ,run down in the famous
lehmann,duncan,crawdad tr4-A-
needless to say w/o overdrive it should be one hell of a run acrost wyo-utha
salt flats them nevada to reno and down the hill-i say 3 days-
but never put anything past this crazy basturd (me)-
guys we need to hammer down nobbc-7th event time and mtg. spot-
sat-aug 2 should be that day-
go w/park ride lot river road-
10:00 a.m.
go up coast to fort bragg-
it would be a "stag" run 4 me-
guys i want to do this-
in dont know just how yet,
the triumph has had no serious bites on the for sale lists-
maybe leave it down there and fly home-
just bouncing thoughts 4 now guys-that,s all-
but let,s do up nobbc 7th-
be it my presence or not-
but goddameitall that,s what,s on my mind-
steve lehmann-
co-founder-
aug 4th 2001
got to go-
dee-bird wants to take a walk around the block.

From nobbc at sonic.net  Mon Jul 14 22:32:00 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:32:00 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] nobbc 7th aniversary drive event-maybe
In-Reply-To: <10F596A3ED7843039C033A34248F2932@stevewbxu6x2qe>
References: <10F596A3ED7843039C033A34248F2932@stevewbxu6x2qe>
Message-ID: <487C2840.1060904@sonic.net>

A little background for those of you wondering what this is all about. 
Steve and I met in August 2001 and decided to start a club. We normally 
celebrate with a club ride out to Fisk Mill Cove via Skagg Springs Road. 
The last couple of years we have met at the fish hatchery by Warm 
Springs Dam. We have also gone out via King Ridge Road and, one 
memorable year, went down Kruse Ranch Rd., a dirt road. Anyway, the 
anniversary is coming up next month and we should decide which route to 
take. If there are no other ideas, we'll meet at the dam and head out to 
Fisk Mill Cove as usual. If anyone from NCBCC receives this, your club 
is welcome as well.

Ron
58 MGA


Steve Lehmann wrote:
> just a big maybe-
> call it a dream-
> guys i would dearley love to come down w/tr4-a,
> but i just cant say-
> in battle w/ social security for funds-
> been to govenors office-senator musgraves office-senator wayne allards
> office-
> loveland newspaper-rep salasars office-
> and still same poop-wait 5 months,your pre approved-
> nothing we can do for you.
> so still zero income-
> 
> having proplems w/raidiation treatments,
> groin tumors poping up faster than can be "zapped"
> and we dont know why-
> cant start cemo till raidiation done-
> cant do surgury and remove spearm tubes and testicles.
> pain killers not working-
> 
> did another cat scan m.r.i. today and will go back to drawing board in morn.
> w/ all the so called pros.
> 
> perhaps before cemo-if i so elect to do cemo ,run down in the famous
> lehmann,duncan,crawdad tr4-A-
> needless to say w/o overdrive it should be one hell of a run acrost wyo-utha
> salt flats them nevada to reno and down the hill-i say 3 days-
> but never put anything past this crazy basturd (me)-
> guys we need to hammer down nobbc-7th event time and mtg. spot-
> sat-aug 2 should be that day-
> go w/park ride lot river road-
> 10:00 a.m.
> go up coast to fort bragg-
> it would be a "stag" run 4 me-
> guys i want to do this-
> in dont know just how yet,
> the triumph has had no serious bites on the for sale lists-
> maybe leave it down there and fly home-
> just bouncing thoughts 4 now guys-that,s all-
> but let,s do up nobbc 7th-
> be it my presence or not-
> but goddameitall that,s what,s on my mind-
> steve lehmann-
> co-founder-
> aug 4th 2001
> got to go-
> dee-bird wants to take a walk around the block.
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From sand at frii.com  Fri Jul 18 16:51:26 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:51:26 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] price reduced-tr4-a
Message-ID: <F87DA784C12E430FB24B7E1B2317F04C@stevewbxu6x2qe>

ad on club website-
tr4-a reduced to 16,000
(nobbc folks only)
keep the ride pics comming !!!
thanks- steve.
sand at frii.com

From nobbc at sonic.net  Mon Jul 21 18:15:20 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:15:20 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Ride schedule
Message-ID: <48852698.5090804@sonic.net>

Our next ride was scheduled for this coming Saturday, however, due to 
the fact that our 7th anniversary ride and picnic will be the next 
Saturday 8/2, I propose combining Saturday's ride with the anniversary 
ride and having one ride on 8/2. Anyone have any comments, objections, 
alternate suggestions?

The anniversary ride will meet in the parking lot of the Warm Springs 
Dam at 10:30 and head out Skagg Springs Rd. to the coast at Fisk Mill 
Cove for a picnic. I'll invite the NCBCC crew to join us as we haven't 
seen them or had a joint ride in a long time.

Ron
58 MGA

From sand at frii.com  Mon Jul 21 18:44:31 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:44:31 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] Ride schedule-northern clan-
References: <48852698.5090804@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <BB90FC1764404D4CB0BD2863D82E1D06@stevewbxu6x2qe>

ron, I aint been able to dig them up in forever-(joel-pam)
try finding a tele for don lattimer in ukaih (marcos)
also try for mike applet in willits-
ill try to send this to his e-mail best i recall it-
steve-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Engelhardt" <nobbc at sonic.net>
To: <nobbc at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 6:15 PM
Subject: [Nobbc] Ride schedule


> Our next ride was scheduled for this coming Saturday, however, due to 
> the fact that our 7th anniversary ride and picnic will be the next 
> Saturday 8/2, I propose combining Saturday's ride with the anniversary 
> ride and having one ride on 8/2. Anyone have any comments, objections, 
> alternate suggestions?
> 
> The anniversary ride will meet in the parking lot of the Warm Springs 
> Dam at 10:30 and head out Skagg Springs Rd. to the coast at Fisk Mill 
> Cove for a picnic. I'll invite the NCBCC crew to join us as we haven't 
> seen them or had a joint ride in a long time.
> 
> Ron
> 58 MGA
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From sand at frii.com  Tue Jul 22 21:14:45 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 21:14:45 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] looking for 50 of you guys-7th annv.
Message-ID: <ADE7E8FF2CB94A3A83935CBC72AE6F39@stevewbxu6x2qe>

warm springs dam-

send pics of at least 50 of you nobbc folks-
sorry im stuck here-
however i will do this....

I will take tr4-A out for a solidarity ride.
I will make a few e-mails and calls to a few brit car folks around here-maybe
a ride to estes park or peak to peak hwy. run-
i will put on the #18 glenwood rally tags-

c-mon it,s the big 7th event so do it up and send them pics !!!

co founder steve-colorado-
cheers and have a good time guys-
(at least 50 of you)

From norman_weinfeld at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 12:44:08 2008
From: norman_weinfeld at hotmail.com (Norman Weinfeld)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:44:08 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Ride schedule
In-Reply-To: <48852698.5090804@sonic.net>
References: <48852698.5090804@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <BAY140-DS334CBEF8C6369A30473A79F840@phx.gbl>

Ron,

Is this the plan then? I might finally be able to make this one, especially
since Stewart's Point/Skaggs Springs Road is perhaps my all-time favorite!

Norm Weinfeld
San Francisco
XK140 DHC


From: Ron Engelhardt
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:15 PM
To: nobbc at autox.team.net
Subject: [Nobbc] Ride schedule


Our next ride was scheduled for this coming Saturday, however, due to
the fact that our 7th anniversary ride and picnic will be the next
Saturday 8/2, I propose combining Saturday's ride with the anniversary
ride and having one ride on 8/2. Anyone have any comments, objections,
alternate suggestions?

The anniversary ride will meet in the parking lot of the Warm Springs
Dam at 10:30 and head out Skagg Springs Rd. to the coast at Fisk Mill
Cove for a picnic. I'll invite the NCBCC crew to join us as we haven't
seen them or had a joint ride in a long time.

Ron
58 MGA
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From nobbc at sonic.net  Wed Jul 23 20:11:42 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:11:42 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Anniversary update
Message-ID: <4887E4DE.1020409@sonic.net>

I received a message from Joel and Pam from the NCBCC in Mendocino (and 
north). They have notified their members of our ride on the 2nd so we 
may have some of their members joining us. We have had some memorable 
joint rides in the past.

Ron
58 MGA

From FAWN220 at COMCAST.NET  Wed Jul 23 20:50:43 2008
From: FAWN220 at COMCAST.NET (JULIA KENNER)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:50:43 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Anniversary update
In-Reply-To: <4887E4DE.1020409@sonic.net>
References: <4887E4DE.1020409@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <000301c8ed38$11c0f930$3542eb90$@NET>

DAMN,

FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW I HAVE TO MISS THE ANNIVERSARY RIDE.

SORRY,

JOHN KENNER
64 TR HERALD, 66 LOTUS ELAN, 68 TR250 & 72 LOTUS ELAN PLUS 2

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Ron Engelhardt
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:12 PM
To: nobbc at autox.team.net
Subject: [Nobbc] Anniversary update

I received a message from Joel and Pam from the NCBCC in Mendocino (and 
north). They have notified their members of our ride on the 2nd so we 
may have some of their members joining us. We have had some memorable 
joint rides in the past.

Ron
58 MGA
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From nobbc at sonic.net  Wed Jul 23 22:02:25 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:02:25 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Anniversary update
In-Reply-To: <000301c8ed38$11c0f930$3542eb90$@NET>
References: <4887E4DE.1020409@sonic.net> <000301c8ed38$11c0f930$3542eb90$@NET>
Message-ID: <4887FED1.9060301@sonic.net>

Hey! Three strikes and you're out ;-)

JULIA KENNER wrote:

> DAMN,
> 
> FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW I HAVE TO MISS THE ANNIVERSARY RIDE.
> 
> SORRY,
> 
> JOHN KENNER
> 64 TR HERALD, 66 LOTUS ELAN, 68 TR250 & 72 LOTUS ELAN PLUS 2
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of Ron Engelhardt
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:12 PM
> To: nobbc at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Nobbc] Anniversary update
> 
> I received a message from Joel and Pam from the NCBCC in Mendocino (and 
> north). They have notified their members of our ride on the 2nd so we 
> may have some of their members joining us. We have had some memorable 
> joint rides in the past.
> 
> Ron
> 58 MGA
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From dawson at authorspublishing.com  Thu Jul 24 21:27:51 2008
From: dawson at authorspublishing.com (Dawson Church)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:27:51 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] British Parts Cars available at Pick & Pull
Message-ID: <744AC71F-8853-4548-BF8A-02E9977D55F8@authorspublishing.com>

Hi NOBBC friends,

I went to my favorite store today, Pick & Pull in Windsor, to get an  
AC cooler for my ancient MBenz.

Noticed there's a TR7 convertible there. Block is intact, glass,  
bumpers, hood, trunk are there.

Also an XJS coupe, still fairly intact.

Several XJ6s of vintages looking to be from the late 60s through the I  
think 1989 model (don't crock me if I'm wrong I can't recall when Jag  
brought out that beautiful new pre-Ford body style). Surprised to see  
most of the chrome on those cars, and no evident rust.

So if you need any parts, now might be a good time to swing by.

Dawson

From sand at frii.com  Thu Jul 24 21:52:37 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:52:37 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] dawson...
Message-ID: <C7F0BFF7899C42F9AC9E9341CFA5A348@stevewbxu6x2qe>

thank you sir-
i have now seen my dream come to be-
your heads up re: parts in windsor-
to me this is an example of just how i envishioned this club to work-
agian, thank you dawson !!!
steve-colorado.

From csaul at noleak.com  Sat Jul 26 20:06:35 2008
From: csaul at noleak.com (Charlie Saul)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:06:35 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
Message-ID: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8789@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>

Hi All:

Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head gasket
etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less than
1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
Will this bring the temp down significantly?

Regards,

Charlie

From haiku99 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 26 21:25:57 2008
From: haiku99 at gmail.com (Bill Crowe)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:25:57 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8789@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
References: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8789@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
Message-ID: <188b620b0807262025g113c69etc0322fdd64f6b8f1@mail.gmail.com>

have someone check for combustion gases in the coolant, if this is the
problem it will need to be fixed as no cooling system improvements, oil
coolers, etc. can compensate for it, can be caused by a cracked head, bad
head gasket, etc  FWIW there was a good thread on overheating on the Sevens
list recenly, someone with a MG powered Locost had similar problems, turned
out to be a bad head
http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=2434

Bill

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul <csaul at noleak.com> wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head gasket
> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less than
> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charlie
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From sand at frii.com  Sat Jul 26 21:34:29 2008
From: sand at frii.com (Steve Lehmann)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:34:29 -0600
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating-try this-----
References: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8789@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
Message-ID: <A5B92D7CCE594CF2BBB815C6D49B8588@stevewbxu6x2qe>

how far up are you topping off the raidiator at the cap?
if you top it to the top ring what can happen when the water gets hot and 
expands is push past the cap and start a siphion right to overflow can---try 
this
drop lever in raidiator to abought 3/4 inch below the ring the raidiator cap 
seals aginst and replace cap-make shure right preshure cap (7lbs?)-see what 
that does for you-

whoever told you rings and valves will make it overheat should not have a 
licence to preform automotive work.

a head gasket leak will cause overheating and here is a very e-z way to have 
a look-
pull the spark plugs-
if one looks like it,s been steam cleaned then yes it,s a head gasket issue.
also a simple compreshion test will tell you shape of rings.
test 2 x-
a dry test first-
then a small shot of oil down the plug hole-
if compreshion jumps up a signifacant ammount then it could be rings-#s 
should be within aprox 8-10 percent acrost all cylenders-
take note here-
if rear cylender-(cylenders) are weeker than to the front chances are you 
have had a stuck open thermostat and the water is not circulating to rear of 
engine to to lack of restriction needed to force coolent to the rear of the 
block--
is the car blowing blue smoke?-rings-
is the car blowing white steam?-head gasket (hope for nothing cracked)

whats the water look like in raidiator-
if like a nice nestles chocklate milk and oil looks the same your rebuilding 
and hopeing nothing cracked-

if it,s overheating in 15 min maybe you just have a stuck shut thermostat-

im willing to say it,s something very simple-may just a loose fan belt-

there plenty of honest mechanics that just love to steal your money-

if your car is overheating as much as you say an oil cooler aint gonna help 
you none-

sounds to me like you need to find a new mechanic.
one that belives in making an honest living-
sorry but it just frosts my ass to see people getting screwed-

go find a new mechanic-





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlie Saul" <csaul at noleak.com>
To: <nobbc at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating


> Hi All:
>
> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head gasket
> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less than
> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charlie
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc 

From dawson at authorspublishing.com  Sat Jul 26 22:46:42 2008
From: dawson at authorspublishing.com (Dawson Church)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:46:42 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8789@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
References: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8789@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
Message-ID: <9E5688F7-8007-4170-AA2C-2E974554B1E0@authorspublishing.com>

Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the  
radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it was  
BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!

I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing  
electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,  
installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor  
that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that  
triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the  
engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.

Dawson


On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head gasket
> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less than
> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charlie
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From csaul at noleak.com  Sun Jul 27 18:23:15 2008
From: csaul at noleak.com (Charlie Saul)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:23:15 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <188b620b0807262025g113c69etc0322fdd64f6b8f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E878A@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>

Thank you a bunch Bill,
This helps a lot; will check it out.

Thanks Again
And Happy Motoring

Charlie




-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Bill Crowe
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 8:26 PM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

have someone check for combustion gases in the coolant, if this is the
problem it will need to be fixed as no cooling system improvements, oil
coolers, etc. can compensate for it, can be caused by a cracked head,
bad head gasket, etc  FWIW there was a good thread on overheating on the
Sevens list recenly, someone with a MG powered Locost had similar
problems, turned out to be a bad head
http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=2434

Bill

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul <csaul at noleak.com> wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head gasket

> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less than

> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charlie
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From csaul at noleak.com  Sun Jul 27 18:25:38 2008
From: csaul at noleak.com (Charlie Saul)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:25:38 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating-try this-----
In-Reply-To: <A5B92D7CCE594CF2BBB815C6D49B8588@stevewbxu6x2qe>
Message-ID: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E878B@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>

Hi Steve,

Your advice is very helpful and constructive. I will have these things
checked off the list.

Hope to be happily motoring soon.

Thanks again

Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Steve Lehmann
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 8:34 PM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating-try this-----

how far up are you topping off the raidiator at the cap?
if you top it to the top ring what can happen when the water gets hot
and expands is push past the cap and start a siphion right to overflow
can---try this drop lever in raidiator to abought 3/4 inch below the
ring the raidiator cap seals aginst and replace cap-make shure right
preshure cap (7lbs?)-see what that does for you-

whoever told you rings and valves will make it overheat should not have
a licence to preform automotive work.

a head gasket leak will cause overheating and here is a very e-z way to
have a look- pull the spark plugs- if one looks like it,s been steam
cleaned then yes it,s a head gasket issue.
also a simple compreshion test will tell you shape of rings.
test 2 x-
a dry test first-
then a small shot of oil down the plug hole- if compreshion jumps up a
signifacant ammount then it could be rings-#s should be within aprox
8-10 percent acrost all cylenders- take note here- if rear
cylender-(cylenders) are weeker than to the front chances are you have
had a stuck open thermostat and the water is not circulating to rear of
engine to to lack of restriction needed to force coolent to the rear of
the
block--
is the car blowing blue smoke?-rings-
is the car blowing white steam?-head gasket (hope for nothing cracked)

whats the water look like in raidiator-
if like a nice nestles chocklate milk and oil looks the same your
rebuilding and hopeing nothing cracked-

if it,s overheating in 15 min maybe you just have a stuck shut
thermostat-

im willing to say it,s something very simple-may just a loose fan belt-

there plenty of honest mechanics that just love to steal your money-

if your car is overheating as much as you say an oil cooler aint gonna
help you none-

sounds to me like you need to find a new mechanic.
one that belives in making an honest living- sorry but it just frosts my
ass to see people getting screwed-

go find a new mechanic-





----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Saul" <csaul at noleak.com>
To: <nobbc at autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating


> Hi All:
>
> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head gasket
> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less than
> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charlie
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From csaul at noleak.com  Sun Jul 27 18:28:30 2008
From: csaul at noleak.com (Charlie Saul)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:28:30 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <9E5688F7-8007-4170-AA2C-2E974554B1E0@authorspublishing.com>
Message-ID: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E878C@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>

Hi Dawson,

You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will check
it out!

Thanks a bunch,

Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Dawson Church
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it was
BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!

I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing electric
fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand, installs in about
an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor that goes through the
radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that triggers at low temperature,
the regular ones trigger too high, the engine is already cooking before
they signal the fans to turn on.

Dawson


On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head gasket

> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less than

> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charlie
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From rnapda at aol.com  Mon Jul 28 08:33:57 2008
From: rnapda at aol.com (Richard Anderon)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 07:33:57 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E878C@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
References: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E878C@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
Message-ID: <D3C4D101-699B-4768-8BBE-44E8E35E7183@aol.com>

Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.   
Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with  
shroud are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and  
have found that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean  
and check the advance.

Dick
On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

> Hi Dawson,
>
> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will  
> check
> it out!
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net 
> ]
> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
> To: North Bay British Car Club
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it was
> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>
> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing  
> electric
> fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand, installs in  
> about
> an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor that goes through the
> radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that triggers at low temperature,
> the regular ones trigger too high, the engine is already cooking  
> before
> they signal the fans to turn on.
>
> Dawson
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head  
>> gasket
>
>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less  
>> than
>
>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charlie
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From csaul at noleak.com  Mon Jul 28 10:12:22 2008
From: csaul at noleak.com (Charlie Saul)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:12:22 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <D3C4D101-699B-4768-8BBE-44E8E35E7183@aol.com>
Message-ID: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E878F@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>

Thanks so much Dick,

I'll be sure to have the advance checked.

Hope to be cool running soon!

Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with shroud
are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and have found
that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean and check the
advance.

Dick
On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

> Hi Dawson,
>
> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
> check it out!
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
> ]
> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
> To: North Bay British Car Club
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it was

> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>
> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
>
> Dawson
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
>> gasket
>
>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
>> than
>
>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charlie
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From apexbrit at msn.com  Mon Jul 28 18:02:48 2008
From: apexbrit at msn.com (Robin Jackson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:02:48 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E878F@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
References: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E878F@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
Message-ID: <BLU103-DS484F4AC67EED503EBDDD7C4820@phx.gbl>

Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or have an
overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat; altho it was
for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA. All mechanics in the
car being good, it should not overheat and coolers and fans will not fix the
real problem, whatever it is.

I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240? Does it "boil
over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the Edinbrough
Express?

First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt, defective water
pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the system, airflow
through rad, external leaks.

If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases getting into
the coolent through an internal leak.

Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it should rise
to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180 (whatever your thermstat
is). You can put your hand on the top hose and feel the warm coolent flow when
it opens.

When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad? (Always run
50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes obstructed can cause a loss
of cooling.

Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it leaks
down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks - hoses. No? Maybe an
internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could scald yourself.)

Any water bubbles on the dip stick?

Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling system, it is
usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets can cause problems.
Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.

Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can contribute to
heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor running. It is
always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb mixture. (part of the
fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)

I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55 years of
working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.

Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can hurt
yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under pressure
are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be careful. I don't know
what your experience is.


BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve the
environment, drip by drip.


Robin


  From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
  To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating


  Thanks so much Dick,

  I'll be sure to have the advance checked.

  Hope to be cool running soon!

  Charlie

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
[mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
  On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
  To: North Bay British Car Club
  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

  Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
  Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with shroud
  are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and have found
  that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean and check the
  advance.

  Dick
  On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

  > Hi Dawson,
  >
  > You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
  > check it out!
  >
  > Thanks a bunch,
  >
  > Charlie
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
  > [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
  > ]
  > On Behalf Of Dawson Church
  > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
  > To: North Bay British Car Club
  > Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
  >
  > Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
  > radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it was

  > BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
  >
  > I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
  > electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
  > installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
  > that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
  > triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
  > engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
  >
  > Dawson
  >
  >
  > On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
  >
  >> Hi All:
  >>
  >> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
  >> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when I
  >> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
  >> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
  >> gasket
  >
  >> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
  >> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
  >> than
  >
  >> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
  >> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
  >>
  >> Regards,
  >>
  >> Charlie
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> Nobbc mailing list
  >> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  >>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/li
stinfo/nobbc>
  > _______________________________________________
  > Nobbc mailing list
  > Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/li
stinfo/nobbc>
  > _______________________________________________
  > Nobbc mailing list
  > Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/li
stinfo/nobbc>
  _______________________________________________
  Nobbc mailing list
  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/nobbc>
  _______________________________________________
  Nobbc mailing list
  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/nobbc>

From csaul at noleak.com  Mon Jul 28 21:55:12 2008
From: csaul at noleak.com (Charlie Saul)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:55:12 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <BLU103-DS484F4AC67EED503EBDDD7C4820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8791@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>

Robin,

Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.

If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a
classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic; in
fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every point
to be sure.

I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I know
there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know about
the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?

Thanks a bunch,

Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Robin Jackson
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or have an
overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat; altho
it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA. All
mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and coolers and
fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.

I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240? Does it
"boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
Edinbrough Express?

First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt, defective
water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
system, airflow through rad, external leaks.

If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases getting
into the coolent through an internal leak.

Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it should
rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180 (whatever your
thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose and feel the warm
coolent flow when it opens.

When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
(Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.

Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it
leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks - hoses.
No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could scald
yourself.)

Any water bubbles on the dip stick?

Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling system,
it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets can cause
problems.
Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.

Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can contribute to
heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor running.
It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb mixture.
(part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)

I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55 years
of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.

Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can hurt
yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be careful.
I don't know what your experience is.


BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve the
environment, drip by drip.


Robin


  From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
  To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating


  Thanks so much Dick,

  I'll be sure to have the advance checked.

  Hope to be cool running soon!

  Charlie

  -----Original Message-----
  From:
nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
[mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
  On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
  To: North Bay British Car Club
  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

  Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
  Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
shroud
  are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and have
found
  that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean and check
the
  advance.

  Dick
  On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

  > Hi Dawson,
  >
  > You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
  > check it out!
  >
  > Thanks a bunch,
  >
  > Charlie
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From:
nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
  > [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
  > ]
  > On Behalf Of Dawson Church
  > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
  > To: North Bay British Car Club
  > Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
  >
  > Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
  > radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
was

  > BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
  >
  > I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
  > electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
  > installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
  > that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
  > triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
  > engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
  >
  > Dawson
  >
  >
  > On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
  >
  >> Hi All:
  >>
  >> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
  >> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
I
  >> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
  >> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
  >> gasket
  >
  >> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
  >> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
  >> than
  >
  >> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
  >> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
  >>
  >> Regards,
  >>
  >> Charlie
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> Nobbc mailing list
  >> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  >>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailm
an/li
stinfo/nobbc>
  > _______________________________________________
  > Nobbc mailing list
  > Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailm
an/li
stinfo/nobbc>
  > _______________________________________________
  > Nobbc mailing list
  > Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailm
an/li
stinfo/nobbc>
  _______________________________________________
  Nobbc mailing list
  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>

http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailm
an/
listinfo/nobbc>
  _______________________________________________
  Nobbc mailing list
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From wbain at sonic.net  Tue Jul 29 11:58:16 2008
From: wbain at sonic.net (wendell bain)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:58:16 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8791@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
References: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8791@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
Message-ID: <48244343-9F8A-42DE-8D52-911F4642FC12@sonic.net>

Hi Charlie,

I had the shop in Rohnert Park, British European, make up a brake line
for me when I didn't have the flaring tool for the Morgan. He did a good
job and it wasn't very expensive. It was also more than ten years ago.
I understand from others that the shop is quite expensive to have them
do repairs. Other than that I have no experience with them. There are
frequently very interesting cars in their parking lot.

Good luck,
Wendell

On Jul 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

> Robin,
>
> Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.
>
> If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a
> classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
> Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic; in
> fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every point
> to be sure.
>
> I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I know
> there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know about
> the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc- 
> bounces at autox.team.net]
> On Behalf Of Robin Jackson
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
> To: North Bay British Car Club
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
> Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or  
> have an
> overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat; altho
> it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA. All
> mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and coolers  
> and
> fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.
>
> I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240?  
> Does it
> "boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
> Edinbrough Express?
>
> First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt, defective
> water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
> system, airflow through rad, external leaks.
>
> If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases  
> getting
> into the coolent through an internal leak.
>
> Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it  
> should
> rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180 (whatever your
> thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose and feel the warm
> coolent flow when it opens.
>
> When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
> (Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
> obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.
>
> Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it
> leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks - hoses.
> No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could scald
> yourself.)
>
> Any water bubbles on the dip stick?
>
> Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling system,
> it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets can cause
> problems.
> Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.
>
> Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can  
> contribute to
> heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor running.
> It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb mixture.
> (part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)
>
> I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55 years
> of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.
>
> Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can hurt
> yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
> pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be  
> careful.
> I don't know what your experience is.
>
>
> BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve  
> the
> environment, drip by drip.
>
>
> Robin
>
>
>   From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
>   To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
>   Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
>
>   Thanks so much Dick,
>
>   I'll be sure to have the advance checked.
>
>   Hope to be cool running soon!
>
>   Charlie
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From:
> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
>   On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
>   Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
>   To: North Bay British Car Club
>   Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
>   Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
>   Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
> shroud
>   are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and have
> found
>   that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean and check
> the
>   advance.
>
>   Dick
>   On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>
>> Hi Dawson,
>>
>> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
>> check it out!
>>
>> Thanks a bunch,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
>> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
> was
>
>> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>>
>> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
>> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
>> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
>> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
>> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
>> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
>>
>> Dawson
>>
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All:
>>>
>>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
> I
>>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
>>> gasket
>>
>>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
>>> than
>>
>>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/ 
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/ 
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/ 
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Nobbc mailing list
>   Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/ 
> mailm
> an/
> listinfo/nobbc>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Nobbc mailing list
>   Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/ 
> mailm
> an/
> listinfo/nobbc>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From dawson at authorspublishing.com  Tue Jul 29 12:21:13 2008
From: dawson at authorspublishing.com (Dawson Church)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:21:13 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <48244343-9F8A-42DE-8D52-911F4642FC12@sonic.net>
References: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E8791@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
	<48244343-9F8A-42DE-8D52-911F4642FC12@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <0C498F68-DC4F-4193-A201-946DCF0B39E9@authorspublishing.com>

I got a $400 quote for rebuilding the carbs on my Lotus.

Then when I went to pick it up, a bill for $1500!

I could have bought remanufactured carbs and bolted them on myself for  
less....

Dawsno


On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:58 AM, wendell bain wrote:

> Hi Charlie,
>
> I had the shop in Rohnert Park, British European, make up a brake line
> for me when I didn't have the flaring tool for the Morgan. He did a  
> good
> job and it wasn't very expensive. It was also more than ten years ago.
> I understand from others that the shop is quite expensive to have them
> do repairs. Other than that I have no experience with them. There are
> frequently very interesting cars in their parking lot.
>
> Good luck,
> Wendell
>
> On Jul 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>
>> Robin,
>>
>> Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.
>>
>> If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a
>> classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
>> Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic;  
>> in
>> fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every  
>> point
>> to be sure.
>>
>> I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I know
>> there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know about
>> the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?
>>
>> Thanks a bunch,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-
>> bounces at autox.team.net]
>> On Behalf Of Robin Jackson
>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>> Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or
>> have an
>> overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat;  
>> altho
>> it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA. All
>> mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and coolers
>> and
>> fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.
>>
>> I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240?
>> Does it
>> "boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
>> Edinbrough Express?
>>
>> First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt, defective
>> water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
>> system, airflow through rad, external leaks.
>>
>> If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases
>> getting
>> into the coolent through an internal leak.
>>
>> Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it
>> should
>> rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180 (whatever  
>> your
>> thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose and feel the  
>> warm
>> coolent flow when it opens.
>>
>> When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
>> (Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
>> obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.
>>
>> Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it
>> leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks -  
>> hoses.
>> No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could  
>> scald
>> yourself.)
>>
>> Any water bubbles on the dip stick?
>>
>> Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling  
>> system,
>> it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets can cause
>> problems.
>> Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.
>>
>> Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can
>> contribute to
>> heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor  
>> running.
>> It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb mixture.
>> (part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)
>>
>> I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55  
>> years
>> of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.
>>
>> Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can hurt
>> yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
>> pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be
>> careful.
>> I don't know what your experience is.
>>
>>
>> BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve
>> the
>> environment, drip by drip.
>>
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>>  From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
>>  To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>>
>>  Thanks so much Dick,
>>
>>  I'll be sure to have the advance checked.
>>
>>  Hope to be cool running soon!
>>
>>  Charlie
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From:
>> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
>>  On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
>>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
>>  To: North Bay British Car Club
>>  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>>  Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
>>  Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
>> shroud
>>  are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and have
>> found
>>  that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean and check
>> the
>>  advance.
>>
>>  Dick
>>  On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dawson,
>>>
>>> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
>>> check it out!
>>>
>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:
>> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
>>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>
>>> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
>>> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
>> was
>>
>>> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>>>
>>> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
>>> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
>>> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
>>> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
>>> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
>>> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
>>>
>>> Dawson
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All:
>>>>
>>>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>>>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
>> I
>>>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>>>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
>>>> gasket
>>>
>>>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>>>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
>>>> than
>>>
>>>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>>>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/li
>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/li
>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/li
>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Nobbc mailing list
>>  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/
>> listinfo/nobbc>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Nobbc mailing list
>>  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/
>> listinfo/nobbc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
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> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From napaguy at comcast.net  Tue Jul 29 12:48:34 2008
From: napaguy at comcast.net (Mel Cohen)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:48:34 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Rebuild a Morgan
Message-ID: <7D54FBCBFF514EC29A5DD0AEF81BBEA7@melc90a4374d70>

I have a 58 Morgan that is now running fine. The problem is the Wood Frame,
which is now 50 years old. The doors hinges are weak, etc.

 

Does anyone have any ideas? I could either sell the car to someone that
wants to rebuild it or I can find someone who can do it for me.

 

 

Mel Cohen - 58 Plus 4 Morgan - the Napaguy

From DPaige at ci.santa-rosa.ca.us  Tue Jul 29 14:43:39 2008
From: DPaige at ci.santa-rosa.ca.us (Paige, Dean)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:43:39 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <48244343-9F8A-42DE-8D52-911F4642FC12@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <38EB329C843ED444A8CF05627CC4BFA612B6F6@mail2.sr.local>

Comparable to any other charges for auto repairs in reputable shops in
this area. Highly qualified mechanics. Owner Mark Singleton a Brit
trained in the UK. Knows Brit cars inside out. A large portion of his
business is in restorations, and I have to say BEM restorations are
incredible. I've known Mark since 1988, while I gasped over price
sometimes I was always pleased by the quality of work. He kept an 85
XJ-6 of mine running and beautiful for 225 K miles until it's untimely
demise in a crash that ended with me and the car under a center divide
guardrail caused by a Ford 250 that rear ended me & hit the gas instead
of brakes and literally drove me under the rail. Only alive because I
saw it coming and laid down over the consule. Roof came down to the dash
board. Seat head rest was sticking up through the smashed left rear
window. I digress.

BEM has been taking care of my 98 VDP since and also built an engine for
my TR-6 after the original went irreparably at 320 K.

You get what you pay for.

Deano
-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of wendell bain
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:58 AM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

Hi Charlie,

I had the shop in Rohnert Park, British European, make up a brake line
for me when I didn't have the flaring tool for the Morgan. He did a good
job and it wasn't very expensive. It was also more than ten years ago.
I understand from others that the shop is quite expensive to have them
do repairs. Other than that I have no experience with them. There are
frequently very interesting cars in their parking lot.

Good luck,
Wendell

On Jul 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

> Robin,
>
> Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.
>
> If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a
> classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
> Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic; in

> fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every point

> to be sure.
>
> I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I know
> there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know about
> the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-
> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Robin Jackson
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
> To: North Bay British Car Club
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
> Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or have
> an overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat;
> altho it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA.
> All mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and
> coolers and fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.
>
> I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240?
> Does it
> "boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
> Edinbrough Express?
>
> First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt, defective
> water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
> system, airflow through rad, external leaks.
>
> If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases
> getting into the coolent through an internal leak.
>
> Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it
> should rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180
> (whatever your thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose
> and feel the warm coolent flow when it opens.
>
> When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
> (Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
> obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.
>
> Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it
> leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks - hoses.
> No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could scald
> yourself.)
>
> Any water bubbles on the dip stick?
>
> Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling system,

> it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets can cause
> problems.
> Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.
>
> Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can contribute
> to heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor
> running.
> It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb mixture.
> (part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)
>
> I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55 years

> of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.
>
> Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can hurt
> yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
> pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be
> careful.
> I don't know what your experience is.
>
>
> BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve
> the environment, drip by drip.
>
>
> Robin
>
>
>   From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
>   To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
>   Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
>
>   Thanks so much Dick,
>
>   I'll be sure to have the advance checked.
>
>   Hope to be cool running soon!
>
>   Charlie
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From:
> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
>   On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
>   Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
>   To: North Bay British Car Club
>   Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
>   Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
>   Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
> shroud
>   are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and have
> found
>   that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean and check
> the
>   advance.
>
>   Dick
>   On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>
>> Hi Dawson,
>>
>> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
>> check it out!
>>
>> Thanks a bunch,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
>> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
> was
>
>> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>>
>> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
>> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
>> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
>> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
>> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
>> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
>>
>> Dawson
>>
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All:
>>>
>>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
> I
>>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
>>> gasket
>>
>>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
>>> than
>>
>>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Nobbc mailing list
>   Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/
> listinfo/nobbc>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Nobbc mailing list
>   Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/
> listinfo/nobbc>
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From rlmossholder at comcast.net  Tue Jul 29 14:59:47 2008
From: rlmossholder at comcast.net (rlmossholder at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:59:47 +0000
Subject: [Nobbc] New to group
Message-ID: <072920082059.25965.488F84C30009791B0000656D22007623029D0A0B0401089C9C0103049D@comcast.net>

Greetings all,

  My name is Rich Mossholder, I have just signed on to this group. I have joined in on one of the fun runs earlier this year with my father-in-law and we had a great time. I was wondering when the next one will happen? My father-in-law has a '75 MGB and a '53 MGTD and is the one who turned me on to this group.  He keeps the B in our garage and I help take care of it. The TD is a restoration in progress (30+ years). I have owned a number of British cars in the past including:a '74 & '90 Jaguar XJ6, a '73 Triumph Spitfire, a '69 & '70 Triumph GT6+, and a '72 MG Midget rwa. 

  I don't currently own a Brit-car, but am in the market for one. I'd like to get either a nice TVR2500 or another Triumph of some sort. I have performed all of the maintenance and restorations on all of my cars in the past, with the exception of body and paint. I even hand stitched new leather seats for one of my GT6's. I won't do that again...really hard on the fingers. I do have a project car that my Dad and I are building but it will be years before it's ready ('72 Datsun 240z). I would like to find a car that is already finished (I have enough projects).  If anyone has knowledge of a good car for sale please let me know. 

Cheers,
Rich 

From DPaige at ci.santa-rosa.ca.us  Tue Jul 29 15:00:32 2008
From: DPaige at ci.santa-rosa.ca.us (Paige, Dean)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:00:32 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <0C498F68-DC4F-4193-A201-946DCF0B39E9@authorspublishing.com>
Message-ID: <38EB329C843ED444A8CF05627CC4BFA612B6F7@mail2.sr.local>

Be smart with your money. Send the carbs to one of the Carb specialty
shops available on the Monster list like Apple Hydraulics. Same goes for
lever shocks, brake and clutch master cylinders. That's what I did. Left
the heavy lifting for BEM putting a good block and head together and
doing the details of installing the rebuild into the car. My cost from
BEM 5K for all of his work... Maybe $500 for all the detaily stuff,
powder coating intake manifold, ceramic coating for exhaust manifold in
a local shops. Bought electric fans, oil cooler and lots of other stuff
from valve cover etc. Those on the list that participate in the rides
have seen the quality of work produced. I am well pleased with it's
performance, looks and quality of work. No financial interest except for
paying for the work done.

I used to do everything myself. Way to busy living life right now to do
that anymore. I now leave the REALLY big stuff to the experts. Brakes,
suspension, shocks, clutches I still go hands on. Easy money on our
LBCs.

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Dawson Church
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:21 AM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

I got a $400 quote for rebuilding the carbs on my Lotus.

Then when I went to pick it up, a bill for $1500!

I could have bought remanufactured carbs and bolted them on myself for
less....

Dawsno


On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:58 AM, wendell bain wrote:

> Hi Charlie,
>
> I had the shop in Rohnert Park, British European, make up a brake line

> for me when I didn't have the flaring tool for the Morgan. He did a
> good job and it wasn't very expensive. It was also more than ten years

> ago.
> I understand from others that the shop is quite expensive to have them

> do repairs. Other than that I have no experience with them. There are
> frequently very interesting cars in their parking lot.
>
> Good luck,
> Wendell
>
> On Jul 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>
>> Robin,
>>
>> Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.
>>
>> If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a
>> classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
>> Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic;
>> in fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every
>> point to be sure.
>>
>> I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I know

>> there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know about

>> the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?
>>
>> Thanks a bunch,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-
>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Robin Jackson
>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>> Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or have
>> an overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat;
>> altho it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA.
>> All mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and
>> coolers and fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.
>>
>> I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240?
>> Does it
>> "boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
>> Edinbrough Express?
>>
>> First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt, defective

>> water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
>> system, airflow through rad, external leaks.
>>
>> If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases
>> getting into the coolent through an internal leak.
>>
>> Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it
>> should rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180
>> (whatever your thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose
>> and feel the warm coolent flow when it opens.
>>
>> When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
>> (Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
>> obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.
>>
>> Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it
>> leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks -
>> hoses.
>> No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could
>> scald
>> yourself.)
>>
>> Any water bubbles on the dip stick?
>>
>> Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling
>> system, it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets
>> can cause problems.
>> Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.
>>
>> Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can contribute
>> to heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor
>> running.
>> It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb mixture.
>> (part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)
>>
>> I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55
>> years of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.
>>
>> Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can hurt

>> yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
>> pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be
>> careful.
>> I don't know what your experience is.
>>
>>
>> BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve
>> the environment, drip by drip.
>>
>>
>> Robin
>>
>>
>>  From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
>>  To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>>
>>  Thanks so much Dick,
>>
>>  I'll be sure to have the advance checked.
>>
>>  Hope to be cool running soon!
>>
>>  Charlie
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From:
>> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
>>  On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
>>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
>>  To: North Bay British Car Club
>>  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>>  Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
>>  Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
>> shroud  are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and

>> have found  that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean

>> and check the  advance.
>>
>>  Dick
>>  On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dawson,
>>>
>>> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
>>> check it out!
>>>
>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:
>> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
>>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>
>>> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the

>>> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
>> was
>>
>>> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>>>
>>> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
>>> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
>>> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
>>> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
>>> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
>>> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
>>>
>>> Dawson
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All:
>>>>
>>>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>>>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
>> I
>>>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>>>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
>>>> gasket
>>>
>>>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>>>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
>>>> than
>>>
>>>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>>>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/li
>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/li
>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/li
>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Nobbc mailing list
>>  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/
>> listinfo/nobbc>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Nobbc mailing list
>>  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>> mailm
>> an/
>> listinfo/nobbc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From tadhyke at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 29 15:02:52 2008
From: tadhyke at earthlink.net (LH)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:02:52 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <38EB329C843ED444A8CF05627CC4BFA612B6F7@mail2.sr.local>
References: <38EB329C843ED444A8CF05627CC4BFA612B6F7@mail2.sr.local>
Message-ID: <D9488F92-84E4-4B33-8B83-3AB6F0803354@earthlink.net>

Joe Curto on the east coast is a superb rebuilder of SU Carbs and has  
been doing just that for an eternity......
Please tell him I said hello if you use him.

http://www.joecurto.com/

Lea Hyke

On Jul 29, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Paige, Dean wrote:

> Be smart with your money. Send the carbs to one of the Carb specialty
> shops available on the Monster list like Apple Hydraulics. Same  
> goes for
> lever shocks, brake and clutch master cylinders. That's what I did.  
> Left
> the heavy lifting for BEM putting a good block and head together and
> doing the details of installing the rebuild into the car. My cost from
> BEM 5K for all of his work... Maybe $500 for all the detaily stuff,
> powder coating intake manifold, ceramic coating for exhaust  
> manifold in
> a local shops. Bought electric fans, oil cooler and lots of other  
> stuff
> from valve cover etc. Those on the list that participate in the rides
> have seen the quality of work produced. I am well pleased with it's
> performance, looks and quality of work. No financial interest  
> except for
> paying for the work done.
>
> I used to do everything myself. Way to busy living life right now  
> to do
> that anymore. I now leave the REALLY big stuff to the experts. Brakes,
> suspension, shocks, clutches I still go hands on. Easy money on our
> LBCs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc- 
> bounces at autox.team.net]
> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:21 AM
> To: North Bay British Car Club
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
> I got a $400 quote for rebuilding the carbs on my Lotus.
>
> Then when I went to pick it up, a bill for $1500!
>
> I could have bought remanufactured carbs and bolted them on myself for
> less....
>
> Dawsno
>
>
> On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:58 AM, wendell bain wrote:
>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> I had the shop in Rohnert Park, British European, make up a brake  
>> line
>
>> for me when I didn't have the flaring tool for the Morgan. He did a
>> good job and it wasn't very expensive. It was also more than ten  
>> years
>
>> ago.
>> I understand from others that the shop is quite expensive to have  
>> them
>
>> do repairs. Other than that I have no experience with them. There are
>> frequently very interesting cars in their parking lot.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Wendell
>>
>> On Jul 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>
>>> Robin,
>>>
>>> Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.
>>>
>>> If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a
>>> classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
>>> Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic;
>>> in fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every
>>> point to be sure.
>>>
>>> I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I  
>>> know
>
>>> there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know  
>>> about
>
>>> the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?
>>>
>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-
>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Robin Jackson
>>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
>>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>
>>> Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or have
>>> an overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat;
>>> altho it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA.
>>> All mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and
>>> coolers and fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.
>>>
>>> I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240?
>>> Does it
>>> "boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
>>> Edinbrough Express?
>>>
>>> First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt,  
>>> defective
>
>>> water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
>>> system, airflow through rad, external leaks.
>>>
>>> If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases
>>> getting into the coolent through an internal leak.
>>>
>>> Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it
>>> should rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180
>>> (whatever your thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose
>>> and feel the warm coolent flow when it opens.
>>>
>>> When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
>>> (Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
>>> obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.
>>>
>>> Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it
>>> leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks -
>>> hoses.
>>> No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could
>>> scald
>>> yourself.)
>>>
>>> Any water bubbles on the dip stick?
>>>
>>> Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling
>>> system, it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets
>>> can cause problems.
>>> Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.
>>>
>>> Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can contribute
>>> to heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor
>>> running.
>>> It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb  
>>> mixture.
>>> (part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)
>>>
>>> I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55
>>> years of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.
>>>
>>> Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can  
>>> hurt
>
>>> yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
>>> pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be
>>> careful.
>>> I don't know what your experience is.
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve
>>> the environment, drip by drip.
>>>
>>>
>>> Robin
>>>
>>>
>>>  From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
>>>  To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>
>>>
>>>  Thanks so much Dick,
>>>
>>>  I'll be sure to have the advance checked.
>>>
>>>  Hope to be cool running soon!
>>>
>>>  Charlie
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From:
>>> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
>>>  On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
>>>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
>>>  To: North Bay British Car Club
>>>  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>
>>>  Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
>>>  Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
>>> shroud  are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool  
>>> and
>
>>> have found  that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to  
>>> lean
>
>>> and check the  advance.
>>>
>>>  Dick
>>>  On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dawson,
>>>>
>>>> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
>>>> check it out!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:
>>> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>>>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
>>>> ]
>>>> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
>>>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of  
>>>> the
>
>>>> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
>>> was
>>>
>>>> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>>>>
>>>> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
>>>> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
>>>> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
>>>> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
>>>> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
>>>> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
>>>>
>>>> Dawson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>>>>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
>>> I
>>>>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>>>>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
>>>>> gasket
>>>>
>>>>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>>>>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
>>>>> than
>>>>
>>>>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>>>>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/li
>>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/li
>>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/li
>>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Nobbc mailing list
>>>  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/
>>> listinfo/nobbc>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Nobbc mailing list
>>>  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/
>>> listinfo/nobbc>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From DPaige at ci.santa-rosa.ca.us  Tue Jul 29 15:07:00 2008
From: DPaige at ci.santa-rosa.ca.us (Paige, Dean)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:07:00 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <D9488F92-84E4-4B33-8B83-3AB6F0803354@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <38EB329C843ED444A8CF05627CC4BFA612B6F8@mail2.sr.local>

Bought electric fans, oil cooler and lots of other
> stuff from valve cover etc. Should have read "from Moss Motors"

And Curto also has a fine reputation. Compare prices.

Deano

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of LH
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 2:03 PM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

Joe Curto on the east coast is a superb rebuilder of SU Carbs and has
been doing just that for an eternity......
Please tell him I said hello if you use him.

http://www.joecurto.com/

Lea Hyke

On Jul 29, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Paige, Dean wrote:

> Be smart with your money. Send the carbs to one of the Carb specialty
> shops available on the Monster list like Apple Hydraulics. Same goes
> for lever shocks, brake and clutch master cylinders. That's what I
> did.
> Left
> the heavy lifting for BEM putting a good block and head together and
> doing the details of installing the rebuild into the car. My cost from

> BEM 5K for all of his work... Maybe $500 for all the detaily stuff,
> powder coating intake manifold, ceramic coating for exhaust manifold
> in a local shops.  Those on the list that participate in the
> rides have seen the quality of work produced. I am well pleased with
> it's performance, looks and quality of work. No financial interest
> except for paying for the work done.
>
> I used to do everything myself. Way to busy living life right now to
> do that anymore. I now leave the REALLY big stuff to the experts.
> Brakes, suspension, shocks, clutches I still go hands on. Easy money
> on our LBCs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-
> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dawson Church
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:21 AM
> To: North Bay British Car Club
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
> I got a $400 quote for rebuilding the carbs on my Lotus.
>
> Then when I went to pick it up, a bill for $1500!
>
> I could have bought remanufactured carbs and bolted them on myself for

> less....
>
> Dawsno
>
>
> On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:58 AM, wendell bain wrote:
>
>> Hi Charlie,
>>
>> I had the shop in Rohnert Park, British European, make up a brake
>> line
>
>> for me when I didn't have the flaring tool for the Morgan. He did a
>> good job and it wasn't very expensive. It was also more than ten
>> years
>
>> ago.
>> I understand from others that the shop is quite expensive to have
>> them
>
>> do repairs. Other than that I have no experience with them. There are

>> frequently very interesting cars in their parking lot.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Wendell
>>
>> On Jul 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>
>>> Robin,
>>>
>>> Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.
>>>
>>> If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a

>>> classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
>>> Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic;
>>> in fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every
>>> point to be sure.
>>>
>>> I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I
>>> know
>
>>> there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know
>>> about
>
>>> the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?
>>>
>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-
>>> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Robin Jackson
>>> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
>>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>
>>> Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or have

>>> an overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat;
>>> altho it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA.
>>> All mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and
>>> coolers and fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.
>>>
>>> I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240?
>>> Does it
>>> "boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
>>> Edinbrough Express?
>>>
>>> First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt,
>>> defective
>
>>> water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
>>> system, airflow through rad, external leaks.
>>>
>>> If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases
>>> getting into the coolent through an internal leak.
>>>
>>> Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it
>>> should rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180
>>> (whatever your thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose
>>> and feel the warm coolent flow when it opens.
>>>
>>> When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
>>> (Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
>>> obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.
>>>
>>> Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it

>>> leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks -
>>> hoses.
>>> No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could
>>> scald
>>> yourself.)
>>>
>>> Any water bubbles on the dip stick?
>>>
>>> Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling
>>> system, it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets
>>> can cause problems.
>>> Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.
>>>
>>> Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can contribute

>>> to heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor
>>> running.
>>> It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb
>>> mixture.
>>> (part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)
>>>
>>> I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55
>>> years of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.
>>>
>>> Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can
>>> hurt
>
>>> yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
>>> pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be
>>> careful.
>>> I don't know what your experience is.
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve
>>> the environment, drip by drip.
>>>
>>>
>>> Robin
>>>
>>>
>>>  From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
>>>  To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>
>>>
>>>  Thanks so much Dick,
>>>
>>>  I'll be sure to have the advance checked.
>>>
>>>  Hope to be cool running soon!
>>>
>>>  Charlie
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From:
>>> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
>>>  On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
>>>  Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
>>>  To: North Bay British Car Club
>>>  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>
>>>  Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
>>>  Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
>>> shroud  are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool
>>> and
>
>>> have found  that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to
>>> lean
>
>>> and check the  advance.
>>>
>>>  Dick
>>>  On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dawson,
>>>>
>>>> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
>>>> check it out!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:
>>> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>>>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
>>>> ]
>>>> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
>>>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>>>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of
>>>> the
>
>>>> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
>>> was
>>>
>>>> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>>>>
>>>> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
>>>> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
>>>> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
>>>> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
>>>> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the

>>>> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
>>>>
>>>> Dawson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All:
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>>>>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
>>> I
>>>>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>>>>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
>>>>> gasket
>>>>
>>>>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>>>>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
>>>>> than
>>>>
>>>>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>>>>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/li
>>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/li
>>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/li
>>> stinfo/nobbc>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Nobbc mailing list
>>>  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/
>>> listinfo/nobbc>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Nobbc mailing list
>>>  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
>>> mailm
>>> an/
>>> listinfo/nobbc>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From csaul at noleak.com  Tue Jul 29 19:05:51 2008
From: csaul at noleak.com (Charlie Saul)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:05:51 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <38EB329C843ED444A8CF05627CC4BFA612B6F6@mail2.sr.local>
Message-ID: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E87A4@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>

Deano:
OMG!
Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Paige, Dean
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 1:44 PM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

Comparable to any other charges for auto repairs in reputable shops in
this area. Highly qualified mechanics. Owner Mark Singleton a Brit
trained in the UK. Knows Brit cars inside out. A large portion of his
business is in restorations, and I have to say BEM restorations are
incredible. I've known Mark since 1988, while I gasped over price
sometimes I was always pleased by the quality of work. He kept an 85
XJ-6 of mine running and beautiful for 225 K miles until it's untimely
demise in a crash that ended with me and the car under a center divide
guardrail caused by a Ford 250 that rear ended me & hit the gas instead
of brakes and literally drove me under the rail. Only alive because I
saw it coming and laid down over the consule. Roof came down to the dash
board. Seat head rest was sticking up through the smashed left rear
window. I digress.

BEM has been taking care of my 98 VDP since and also built an engine for
my TR-6 after the original went irreparably at 320 K.

You get what you pay for.

Deano
-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of wendell bain
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:58 AM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

Hi Charlie,

I had the shop in Rohnert Park, British European, make up a brake line
for me when I didn't have the flaring tool for the Morgan. He did a good
job and it wasn't very expensive. It was also more than ten years ago.
I understand from others that the shop is quite expensive to have them
do repairs. Other than that I have no experience with them. There are
frequently very interesting cars in their parking lot.

Good luck,
Wendell

On Jul 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

> Robin,
>
> Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.
>
> If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a
> classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
> Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic; in

> fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every point

> to be sure.
>
> I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I know
> there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know about
> the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-
> bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Robin Jackson
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
> To: North Bay British Car Club
> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
> Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or have
> an overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat;
> altho it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA.
> All mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and
> coolers and fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.
>
> I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240?
> Does it
> "boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
> Edinbrough Express?
>
> First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt, defective
> water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
> system, airflow through rad, external leaks.
>
> If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases
> getting into the coolent through an internal leak.
>
> Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it
> should rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180
> (whatever your thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose
> and feel the warm coolent flow when it opens.
>
> When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
> (Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
> obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.
>
> Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it
> leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks - hoses.
> No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could scald
> yourself.)
>
> Any water bubbles on the dip stick?
>
> Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling system,

> it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets can cause
> problems.
> Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.
>
> Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can contribute
> to heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor
> running.
> It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb mixture.
> (part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)
>
> I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55 years

> of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.
>
> Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can hurt
> yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
> pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be
> careful.
> I don't know what your experience is.
>
>
> BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve
> the environment, drip by drip.
>
>
> Robin
>
>
>   From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
>   To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
>   Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
>
>   Thanks so much Dick,
>
>   I'll be sure to have the advance checked.
>
>   Hope to be cool running soon!
>
>   Charlie
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From:
> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
>   On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
>   Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
>   To: North Bay British Car Club
>   Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>
>   Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
>   Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
> shroud
>   are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and have
> found
>   that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean and check
> the
>   advance.
>
>   Dick
>   On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>
>> Hi Dawson,
>>
>> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
>> check it out!
>>
>> Thanks a bunch,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
> nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
>> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
>> To: North Bay British Car Club
>> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
>>
>> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
>> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
> was
>
>> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
>>
>> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
>> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
>> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
>> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
>> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
>> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
>>
>> Dawson
>>
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All:
>>>
>>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
>>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
> I
>>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
>>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
>>> gasket
>>
>>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
>>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
>>> than
>>
>>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
>>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nobbc mailing list
>>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/li
> stinfo/nobbc>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Nobbc mailing list
>   Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/
> listinfo/nobbc>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Nobbc mailing list
>   Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/
> mailm
> an/
> listinfo/nobbc>
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
_______________________________________________
Nobbc mailing list
Nobbc at autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From apexbrit at msn.com  Tue Jul 29 20:27:04 2008
From: apexbrit at msn.com (Robin Jackson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:27:04 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
In-Reply-To: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E87A4@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
References: <661FDE1E7F6F514FA46326B269A37AEE0E87A4@AQUA-DC1.noleak.com>
Message-ID: <BLU103-DS7AA1DD5A6767D68C4CA67C47D0@phx.gbl>

Having been in the "trade", ethically, I do not recommend where I think you
should go, Charlie.

I have seen the work from all those mentioned and think all are capable;
Otherwise they would not be in business. And everyone likes the familiarity of
a known shop.

For your particular problem: overheating, any trained mechanic should be able
to repair this regardless whether he or she works on domestic, asian european
or whatever.

A couple of alternative suggestions are: John Sparks at PJ's Automotive. They
specialize in Volvo and Suburu, but John was a founding partner of British
European and has helped some of my former customers after I retired.

In addition, there is a German car mechanic across the street from John who
may be interested in a Jag challenge. An excellent mechanic and in the County
for decades.

There is also a Brit Car guy in Corte Madera, on Paradise Drive, who I got to
know slightly. I visited his shop and was impressed - but expect to pay more.

Just a few more two cents worth while I am on light duty due to hand surgery!

Cheers, Robin
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>
  To: North Bay British Car Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 6:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating


  Deano:
  OMG!
  Charlie

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
[mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
  On Behalf Of Paige, Dean
  Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 1:44 PM
  To: North Bay British Car Club
  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

  Comparable to any other charges for auto repairs in reputable shops in
  this area. Highly qualified mechanics. Owner Mark Singleton a Brit
  trained in the UK. Knows Brit cars inside out. A large portion of his
  business is in restorations, and I have to say BEM restorations are
  incredible. I've known Mark since 1988, while I gasped over price
  sometimes I was always pleased by the quality of work. He kept an 85
  XJ-6 of mine running and beautiful for 225 K miles until it's untimely
  demise in a crash that ended with me and the car under a center divide
  guardrail caused by a Ford 250 that rear ended me & hit the gas instead
  of brakes and literally drove me under the rail. Only alive because I
  saw it coming and laid down over the consule. Roof came down to the dash
  board. Seat head rest was sticking up through the smashed left rear
  window. I digress.

  BEM has been taking care of my 98 VDP since and also built an engine for
  my TR-6 after the original went irreparably at 320 K.

  You get what you pay for.

  Deano
  -----Original Message-----
  From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
[mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
  On Behalf Of wendell bain
  Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:58 AM
  To: North Bay British Car Club
  Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating

  Hi Charlie,

  I had the shop in Rohnert Park, British European, make up a brake line
  for me when I didn't have the flaring tool for the Morgan. He did a good
  job and it wasn't very expensive. It was also more than ten years ago.
  I understand from others that the shop is quite expensive to have them
  do repairs. Other than that I have no experience with them. There are
  frequently very interesting cars in their parking lot.

  Good luck,
  Wendell

  On Jul 28, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:

  > Robin,
  >
  > Thanks so much for your very constructive suggestions.
  >
  > If being a mechanic was a prerequisite for buying and appreciating a
  > classic, I would be banned. I know just enough to be dangerous.
  > Therefore, I shall take up all of your suggestions with a mechanic; in

  > fact I'll print out this stream and we'll go over each any every point

  > to be sure.
  >
  > I used to bring my car to a chap in the San Rafael canal area. I know
  > there is a rather expensive shop in Greenbrae. Does anyone know about
  > the shop along the highway in Rohnert Park?
  >
  > Thanks a bunch,
  >
  > Charlie
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>
[mailto:nobbc-
  > bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:bounces at autox.team.net>] On Behalf Of Robin
Jackson
  > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:03 PM
  > To: North Bay British Car Club
  > Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
  >
  > Hello Charlie - My gosh! before you add fans, an oil cooler, or have
  > an overhaul, consider this: Your Jag  was not designed to overheat;
  > altho it was for a cooler climate and shorter runs than we do in CA.
  > All mechanics in the car being good, it should not overheat and
  > coolers and fans will not fix the real problem, whatever it is.
  >
  > I don't know what you mean by overheat. Does it reach 220, 240?
  > Does it
  > "boil over", hence the overflow tank? Does it blow steam like the
  > Edinbrough Express?
  >
  > First things to check are: coolent level, slipping fanbelt, defective
  > water pump, sticking/closed thermosat, rust and scale clogging the
  > system, airflow through rad, external leaks.
  >
  > If these elements are right, then start thinking about hot gases
  > getting into the coolent through an internal leak.
  >
  > Thermstat check is easy: let it idle and watch the temp gauge. it
  > should rise to as much as 200 and then drop back to 160 or 180
  > (whatever your thermstat is). You can put your hand on the top hose
  > and feel the warm coolent flow when it opens.
  >
  > When was the last time you flushed and changed coolent in the rad?
  > (Always run 50/50 coolent and distilled h2o). Just a few tubes
  > obstructed can cause a loss of cooling.
  >
  > Do a pressure check on the system. Pump it up to 15psi and see if it
  > leaks down.(Napa has this tool.) Yes? look for external leaks - hoses.
  > No? Maybe an internal leak, but let a pro test for it,(you could scald
  > yourself.)
  >
  > Any water bubbles on the dip stick?
  >
  > Have you had to fill the system lately? When filling a cooling system,

  > it is usually necessary to "burp" the system as air pockets can cause
  > problems.
  > Again, this can burn you if you don't know what you are doing.
  >
  > Too much retard and lean carbs, as someone else said, can contribute
  > to heating, but I think you would have been concerned about poor
  > running.
  > It is always good to frequently check timing, dwell and carb mixture.
  > (part of the fun of our old girls is fussing with them.)
  >
  > I am not an automotive engineer, but these comments come from 55 years

  > of working on Brit cars and 15 for a livelyhood.
  >
  > Although I don't think I have suggested anything whereby you can hurt
  > yourself, I just need to remind you that hot cooling systems under
  > pressure are very dangerous and can cause you severe injury. Be
  > careful.
  > I don't know what your experience is.
  >
  >
  > BTW, overflow bottles are a good addition and will help to preserve
  > the environment, drip by drip.
  >
  >
  > Robin
  >
  >
  >   From: Charlie Saul<mailto:csaul at noleak.com<mailto:csaul at noleak.com>>
  >   To: North Bay British Car
Club<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>>
  >   Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:12 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
  >
  >
  >   Thanks so much Dick,
  >
  >   I'll be sure to have the advance checked.
  >
  >   Hope to be cool running soon!
  >
  >   Charlie
  >
  >   -----Original Message-----
  >   From:
  >
nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc
-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>>
  > [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
  >   On Behalf Of Richard Anderon
  >   Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 7:34 AM
  >   To: North Bay British Car Club
  >   Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
  >
  >   Hi Charlie,  I have a '67 XKE and agree with Dawson on both.
  >   Hopefully the raised bottle will help.  If needed, fan kits with
  > shroud
  >   are available from most Jag parts houses.  Mine runs cool and have
  > found
  >   that the tune of the engine helps that.  Don't be to lean and check
  > the
  >   advance.
  >
  >   Dick
  >   On Jul 27, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
  >
  >> Hi Dawson,
  >>
  >> You got it; the bottle is mounted too low. Great suggestions; will
  >> check it out!
  >>
  >> Thanks a bunch,
  >>
  >> Charlie
  >>
  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From:
  >
nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc
-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net>>
  >> [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net
  >> ]
  >> On Behalf Of Dawson Church
  >> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:47 PM
  >> To: North Bay British Car Club
  >> Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Xk 120 over heating
  >>
  >> Are you sure your radiator overflow bottle is ABOVE the level of the
  >> radiator. I had a mechanic "helpfully" install one in my Lotus, it
  > was
  >
  >> BELOW, and drained water from the radiator when hot!
  >>
  >> I solved the overheating problem in my 2 Lotuses by installing
  >> electric fans that come on a low temperature. Torqueflow brand,
  >> installs in about an hour, sold at Autozone, turned on by a sensor
  >> that goes through the radiator fins. You MUST get a sensor that
  >> triggers at low temperature, the regular ones trigger too high, the
  >> engine is already cooking before they signal the fans to turn on.
  >>
  >> Dawson
  >>
  >>
  >> On Jul 26, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Charlie Saul wrote:
  >>
  >>> Hi All:
  >>>
  >>> Trying to get my xk 120 back on the road:
  >>> I installed a radiator overflow bottle and it overflows a lot when
  > I
  >>> drive for 15 minutes and turn the car off.
  >>> One mechanic says car is overheating due to rings, valves, head
  >>> gasket
  >>
  >>> etc.; car engine needs to be overhauled.
  >>> Another mechanic says that since I likely will drive the car less
  >>> than
  >>
  >>> 1000 miles a year, I should just have an oil cooler installed.
  >>> Will this bring the temp down significantly?
  >>>
  >>> Regards,
  >>>
  >>> Charlie
  >>> _______________________________________________
  >>> Nobbc mailing list
  >>>
Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<
mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>>
  >>>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/<http://au
tox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/>
  > mailm
  > an/li
  > stinfo/nobbc>
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> Nobbc mailing list
  >>
Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<
mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>>
  >>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/<http://au
tox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/>
  > mailm
  > an/li
  > stinfo/nobbc>
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> Nobbc mailing list
  >>
Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<
mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>>
  >>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/<http://au
tox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/>
  > mailm
  > an/li
  > stinfo/nobbc>
  >   _______________________________________________
  >   Nobbc mailing list
  >
Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<
mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>>
  >
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/<http://au
tox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/>
  > mailm
  > an/
  > listinfo/nobbc>
  >   _______________________________________________
  >   Nobbc mailing list
  >
Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net<
mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>>
  >
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/<http://au
tox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/>
  > mailm
  > an/
  > listinfo/nobbc>
  > _______________________________________________
  > Nobbc mailing list
  > Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/li
stinfo/nobbc>
  > _______________________________________________
  > Nobbc mailing list
  > Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  >
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/li
stinfo/nobbc>
  _______________________________________________
  Nobbc mailing list
  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/nobbc>
  _______________________________________________
  Nobbc mailing list
  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/nobbc>
  _______________________________________________
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  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/nobbc>

From nobbc at sonic.net  Tue Jul 29 20:53:01 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:53:01 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] New to group
In-Reply-To: <072920082059.25965.488F84C30009791B0000656D22007623029D0A0B0401089C9C0103049D@comcast.net>
References: <072920082059.25965.488F84C30009791B0000656D22007623029D0A0B0401089C9C0103049D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <488FD78D.9020703@sonic.net>

Well Rich, our next ride is our 7th anniversary ride and picnic. We will 
meet at the Warm Springs Dam at 10:30 and head out to the coast for a 
picnic. As far as a good car for sale, co-founder Steve is selling his 
cherry TR-4a (currently located in Colorado), maybe he'll pipe up and 
give you the details.

Ron
58 MGA

rlmossholder at comcast.net wrote:

> Greetings all,
> 
>   My name is Rich Mossholder, I have just signed on to this group. I have joined in on one of the fun runs earlier this year with my father-in-law and we had a great time. I was wondering when the next one will happen? My father-in-law has a '75 MGB and a '53 MGTD and is the one who turned me on to this group.  He keeps the B in our garage and I help take care of it. The TD is a restoration in progress (30+ years). I have owned a number of British cars in the past including:a '74 & '90 Jaguar XJ6, a '73 Triumph Spitfire, a '69 & '70 Triumph GT6+, and a '72 MG Midget rwa. 
> 
>   I don't currently own a Brit-car, but am in the market for one. I'd like to get either a nice TVR2500 or another Triumph of some sort. I have performed all of the maintenance and restorations on all of my cars in the past, with the exception of body and paint. I even hand stitched new leather seats for one of my GT6's. I won't do that again...really hard on the fingers. I do have a project car that my Dad and I are building but it will be years before it's ready ('72 Datsun 240z). I would like to find a car that is already finished (I have enough projects).  If anyone has knowledge of a good car for sale please let me know. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Rich 
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From dawson at authorspublishing.com  Tue Jul 29 22:51:13 2008
From: dawson at authorspublishing.com (Dawson Church)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:51:13 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] New to group
In-Reply-To: <488FD78D.9020703@sonic.net>
References: <072920082059.25965.488F84C30009791B0000656D22007623029D0A0B0401089C9C0103049D@comcast.net>
	<488FD78D.9020703@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3C15F969-BAEF-413F-AB65-2F8B87B746FF@authorspublishing.com>

Hi Ron,

My elderly father is visiting from Florida, I need to take him to the  
airport that morning. I'm hoping to join the ride late. Can you give  
me your cell number so I can find you (assuming there's reception).  
Mine is 707 486 9961.

I just got done retuning my Lotus engine to European specs, have some  
interesting items to share, so hope to be there.....

And would look forward to seeing you!

Cheers,

Dawson


On Jul 29, 2008, at 7:53 PM, Ron Engelhardt wrote:

> Well Rich, our next ride is our 7th anniversary ride and picnic. We  
> will
> meet at the Warm Springs Dam at 10:30 and head out to the coast for a
> picnic. As far as a good car for sale, co-founder Steve is selling his
> cherry TR-4a (currently located in Colorado), maybe he'll pipe up and
> give you the details.
>
> Ron
> 58 MGA
>
> rlmossholder at comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>>  My name is Rich Mossholder, I have just signed on to this group. I  
>> have joined in on one of the fun runs earlier this year with my  
>> father-in-law and we had a great time. I was wondering when the  
>> next one will happen? My father-in-law has a '75 MGB and a '53 MGTD  
>> and is the one who turned me on to this group.  He keeps the B in  
>> our garage and I help take care of it. The TD is a restoration in  
>> progress (30+ years). I have owned a number of British cars in the  
>> past including:a '74 & '90 Jaguar XJ6, a '73 Triumph Spitfire, a  
>> '69 & '70 Triumph GT6+, and a '72 MG Midget rwa.
>>
>>  I don't currently own a Brit-car, but am in the market for one.  
>> I'd like to get either a nice TVR2500 or another Triumph of some  
>> sort. I have performed all of the maintenance and restorations on  
>> all of my cars in the past, with the exception of body and paint. I  
>> even hand stitched new leather seats for one of my GT6's. I won't  
>> do that again...really hard on the fingers. I do have a project car  
>> that my Dad and I are building but it will be years before it's  
>> ready ('72 Datsun 240z). I would like to find a car that is already  
>> finished (I have enough projects).  If anyone has knowledge of a  
>> good car for sale please let me know.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Rich
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nobbc mailing list
>> Nobbc at autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From napaguy at comcast.net  Tue Jul 29 23:41:35 2008
From: napaguy at comcast.net (napaguy at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:41:35 +0000
Subject: [Nobbc] New to group
Message-ID: <073020080541.19775.488FFF0F0004CDC300004D3F2200762194979A090E9F0E02@comcast.net>

Ron:

I am in Napa. Where is the Warm Springs Dam? Is the ride this Saturday at 10:30?


Mel Cohen - 58 Morgan - the Napaguy

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Ron Engelhardt <nobbc at sonic.net> 

> Well Rich, our next ride is our 7th anniversary ride and picnic. We will 
> meet at the Warm Springs Dam at 10:30 and head out to the coast for a 
> picnic. As far as a good car for sale, co-founder Steve is selling his 
> cherry TR-4a (currently located in Colorado), maybe he'll pipe up and 
> give you the details. 
> 
> Ron 
> 58 MGA 
> 
> rlmossholder at comcast.net wrote: 
> 
> > Greetings all, 
> > 
> > My name is Rich Mossholder, I have just signed on to this group. I have 
> joined in on one of the fun runs earlier this year with my father-in-law and we 
> had a great time. I was wondering when the next one will happen? My 
> father-in-law has a '75 MGB and a '53 MGTD and is the one who turned me on to 
> this group. He keeps the B in our garage and I help take care of it. The TD is 
> a restoration in progress (30+ years). I have owned a number of British cars in 
> the past including:a '74 & '90 Jaguar XJ6, a '73 Triumph Spitfire, a '69 & '70 
> Triumph GT6+, and a '72 MG Midget rwa. 
> > 
> > I don't currently own a Brit-car, but am in the market for one. I'd like to 
> get either a nice TVR2500 or another Triumph of some sort. I have performed all 
> of the maintenance and restorations on all of my cars in the past, with the 
> exception of body and paint. I even hand stitched new leather seats for one of 
> my GT6's. I won't do that again...really hard on the fingers. I do have a 
> project car that my Dad and I are building but it will be years before it's 
> ready ('72 Datsun 240z). I would like to find a car that is already finished (I 
> have enough projects). If anyone has knowledge of a good car for sale please 
> let me know. 
> > 
> > Cheers, 
> > Rich 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Nobbc mailing list 
> > Nobbc at autox.team.net 
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Nobbc mailing list 
> Nobbc at autox.team.net 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc 

From nobbc at sonic.net  Wed Jul 30 00:05:44 2008
From: nobbc at sonic.net (Ron Engelhardt)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:05:44 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] New to group
In-Reply-To: <073020080541.19775.488FFF0F0004CDC300004D3F2200762194979A090E9F0E02@comcast.net>
References: <073020080541.19775.488FFF0F0004CDC300004D3F2200762194979A090E9F0E02@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <489004B8.5050307@sonic.net>

Mel and anyone else who hasn't been to the dam before: Take 101 north to 
Healdsburg, exit at Dry Creek Rd, make a left and continue on until you 
find the dam. There is a fish hatchery/visitors center at the base of 
the dam, we will meet in the parking lot at 10:30. Make sure that you 
have plenty of gas and bring a lunch as the area we're going is pretty 
remote. Skagg Springs Rd. is the sort of roughly paved goat path British 
sports cars were made for. Most likely we will return down the coast to 
Jenner and then take River Rd. back to town, a more civilized route.

Ron
58 MGA

napaguy at comcast.net wrote:

> Ron:
> 
> I am in Napa. Where is the Warm Springs Dam? Is the ride this Saturday at 10:30?
> 
> 
> Mel Cohen - 58 Morgan - the Napaguy
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: Ron Engelhardt <nobbc at sonic.net> 
> 
> 
>>Well Rich, our next ride is our 7th anniversary ride and picnic. We will 
>>meet at the Warm Springs Dam at 10:30 and head out to the coast for a 
>>picnic. As far as a good car for sale, co-founder Steve is selling his 
>>cherry TR-4a (currently located in Colorado), maybe he'll pipe up and 
>>give you the details. 
>>
>>Ron 
>>58 MGA 
>>
>>rlmossholder at comcast.net wrote: 
>>
>>
>>>Greetings all, 
>>>
>>>My name is Rich Mossholder, I have just signed on to this group. I have 
>>
>>joined in on one of the fun runs earlier this year with my father-in-law and we 
>>had a great time. I was wondering when the next one will happen? My 
>>father-in-law has a '75 MGB and a '53 MGTD and is the one who turned me on to 
>>this group. He keeps the B in our garage and I help take care of it. The TD is 
>>a restoration in progress (30+ years). I have owned a number of British cars in 
>>the past including:a '74 & '90 Jaguar XJ6, a '73 Triumph Spitfire, a '69 & '70 
>>Triumph GT6+, and a '72 MG Midget rwa. 
>>
>>>I don't currently own a Brit-car, but am in the market for one. I'd like to 
>>
>>get either a nice TVR2500 or another Triumph of some sort. I have performed all 
>>of the maintenance and restorations on all of my cars in the past, with the 
>>exception of body and paint. I even hand stitched new leather seats for one of 
>>my GT6's. I won't do that again...really hard on the fingers. I do have a 
>>project car that my Dad and I are building but it will be years before it's 
>>ready ('72 Datsun 240z). I would like to find a car that is already finished (I 
>>have enough projects). If anyone has knowledge of a good car for sale please 
>>let me know. 
>>
>>>Cheers, 
>>>Rich 
>>>_______________________________________________ 
>>>Nobbc mailing list 
>>>Nobbc at autox.team.net 
>>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc 
>>
>>_______________________________________________ 
>>Nobbc mailing list 
>>Nobbc at autox.team.net 
>>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From apexbrit at msn.com  Wed Jul 30 00:14:24 2008
From: apexbrit at msn.com (Robin Jackson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:14:24 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Rebuild a Morgan
In-Reply-To: <7D54FBCBFF514EC29A5DD0AEF81BBEA7@melc90a4374d70>
References: <7D54FBCBFF514EC29A5DD0AEF81BBEA7@melc90a4374d70>
Message-ID: <BLU103-DS503C0B081DCEF6C16C1EDC47D0@phx.gbl>

Mel - I have owned 3 Mogs and have worked on dozens more. The wood coachwork
is a real problem if it rots. Maybe your problem is worn hinges and screws
pulling from the woodwork.

I have replaced wood coachwork on an MGTD. The replacement wood was available
from Moss, but needed some mods. I had to do some "leading" as well on the
metal corners. Frankly, quite a job!

I guess the Mog work would be similar.

I used to purchase Mog parts out of England and later from a place in Oregon.
(Ithink I have a catalogue somewhere.) They are on line and have most parts
including wood.

If your screws are pulling from the woodwork, that is an easy fix with
replcement wood and glue and maybe just the purchase of new hinges and
latches. If your wood is rotten, particularly at joints, then it gets more
complicated.

I'd have to take a look to really give adequate advice.


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mel Cohen<mailto:napaguy at comcast.net>
  To: 'North Bay British Car Club'<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
  Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:48 AM
  Subject: [Nobbc] Rebuild a Morgan


  I have a 58 Morgan that is now running fine. The problem is the Wood Frame,
  which is now 50 years old. The doors hinges are weak, etc.



  Does anyone have any ideas? I could either sell the car to someone that
  wants to rebuild it or I can find someone who can do it for me.





  Mel Cohen - 58 Plus 4 Morgan - the Napaguy
  _______________________________________________
  Nobbc mailing list
  Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
  http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http://autox.team.net/mailman/
listinfo/nobbc>

From wbain at sonic.net  Wed Jul 30 11:38:59 2008
From: wbain at sonic.net (wendell bain)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:38:59 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Rebuild a Morgan
In-Reply-To: <BLU103-DS503C0B081DCEF6C16C1EDC47D0@phx.gbl>
References: <7D54FBCBFF514EC29A5DD0AEF81BBEA7@melc90a4374d70>
	<BLU103-DS503C0B081DCEF6C16C1EDC47D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3CA17DD2-390D-4CDE-B2A4-CA8E2ACEF8C5@sonic.net>

Hi Mel,

As Robin stated, if the wood isn't completely rotten another cure is  
replacing
the wood screws holding the hinges to body/doors with screws, washers  
and
nuts after you drill through the bracing. I've done it on my 59  
Morgan and it is much
better than the factory method. Also nothing shows. Then the only  
problem
is when the hinges wear out.

Parts: Morgan Spares in New England
	   www.morgan-spares.com/
I have never had a bad experience with this company.

Hope this helps,

Wendell

On Jul 29, 2008, at 11:14 PM, Robin Jackson wrote:

> Mel - I have owned 3 Mogs and have worked on dozens more. The wood  
> coachwork
> is a real problem if it rots. Maybe your problem is worn hinges and  
> screws
> pulling from the woodwork.
>
> I have replaced wood coachwork on an MGTD. The replacement wood was  
> available
> from Moss, but needed some mods. I had to do some "leading" as well  
> on the
> metal corners. Frankly, quite a job!
>
> I guess the Mog work would be similar.
>
> I used to purchase Mog parts out of England and later from a place  
> in Oregon.
> (Ithink I have a catalogue somewhere.) They are on line and have  
> most parts
> including wood.
>
> If your screws are pulling from the woodwork, that is an easy fix with
> replcement wood and glue and maybe just the purchase of new hinges and
> latches. If your wood is rotten, particularly at joints, then it  
> gets more
> complicated.
>
> I'd have to take a look to really give adequate advice.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Mel Cohen<mailto:napaguy at comcast.net>
>   To: 'North Bay British Car Club'<mailto:nobbc at autox.team.net>
>   Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:48 AM
>   Subject: [Nobbc] Rebuild a Morgan
>
>
>   I have a 58 Morgan that is now running fine. The problem is the  
> Wood Frame,
>   which is now 50 years old. The doors hinges are weak, etc.
>
>
>
>   Does anyone have any ideas? I could either sell the car to  
> someone that
>   wants to rebuild it or I can find someone who can do it for me.
>
>
>
>
>
>   Mel Cohen - 58 Plus 4 Morgan - the Napaguy
>   _______________________________________________
>   Nobbc mailing list
>   Nobbc at autox.team.net<mailto:Nobbc at autox.team.net>
>   http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc<http:// 
> autox.team.net/mailman/
> listinfo/nobbc>
> _______________________________________________
> Nobbc mailing list
> Nobbc at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/nobbc

From DPaige at ci.santa-rosa.ca.us  Wed Jul 30 12:10:17 2008
From: DPaige at ci.santa-rosa.ca.us (Paige, Dean)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:10:17 -0700
Subject: [Nobbc] Rebuild a Morgan
In-Reply-To: <3CA17DD2-390D-4CDE-B2A4-CA8E2ACEF8C5@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <38EB329C843ED444A8CF05627CC4BFA612B6FB@mail2.sr.local>

Might want to talk to Tcherek on this topic. Likely a font of knowledge
on all things Morgan. And if not her than her dad certainly.

Deano

-----Original Message-----
From: nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:nobbc-bounces at autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of wendell bain
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 10:39 AM
To: North Bay British Car Club
Subject: Re: [Nobbc] Rebuild a Morgan

Hi Mel,

As Robin stated, if the wood isn't completely rotten another cure is
replacing the wood screws holding the hinges to body/doors with screws,
washers and nuts after you drill through the bracing. I've done it on my
59 Morgan and it is much better than the factory method. Also nothing
shows. Then the only problem is when the hinges wear out.

Parts: Morgan Spares in New England
	   www.morgan-spares.com/
I have never had a bad experience with this company.

Hope this helps,

Wendell

On Jul 29, 2008, at 11:14 PM, Robin Jackson wrote: