From dave at ranteer.com  Mon Oct  2 19:34:36 2023
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 01:34:36 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] am i chasing a ghost???
Message-ID: <5013d42787e14eb68d1077006a6e87f7@ranteer.com>

58 MGA.  Had a lot of trouble getting the clutch slave to bleed; even using a syringe to push brake fluid up the line.  I was able to get it working for a few minutes several times before it quit working.  the car never did leave the garage.

Replaced the clutch slave with one from a quality supplier, and got it to work for a few weeks.  But then it again failed to disengage the clutch.  Car was on jack stands the whole time.  was finally going to drop it and drive it around the block but no clutch.

Should I replace the master?  It and the original slave came from unmentionable motors before I found out how poor their quality is.
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From paulbhunt73 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 01:20:03 2023
From: paulbhunt73 at gmail.com (Paul Hunt)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 08:20:03 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] am i chasing a ghost???
In-Reply-To: <5013d42787e14eb68d1077006a6e87f7@ranteer.com>
References: <5013d42787e14eb68d1077006a6e87f7@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <25066745-36a6-73ea-092a-60fb39dc360f@gmail.com>

Is the fluid level in the master changing?

With the pedal wedged down what happens when you open the slave bleed 
nipple?? If fluid spurts out then there is air in the system.? If you 
only get a trickle then I suspect the pressure seal in the master isn't 
pressurising.

If you do get a spurt i.e. air in the system it's difficult to see how 
that can happen from the master with it sitting idle, pedal being 
exercised maybe.? Joints air-tight?

PaulH.

On 03/10/2023 02:34, dave northrup wrote:
>
> 58 MGA.? Had a lot of trouble getting the clutch slave to bleed; even 
> using a syringe to push brake fluid up the line.? I was able to get it 
> working for a few minutes several times before it quit working.? the 
> car never did leave the garage.
>
> Replaced the clutch slave with one from a quality supplier, and got it 
> to work for a few weeks.? But then it again failed to disengage the 
> clutch.? Car was on jack stands the whole time.? was finally going to 
> drop it and drive it around the block but no clutch.
>
> Should I replace the master?? It and the original slave came from 
> unmentionable motors before I found out how poor their quality is.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulbhunt73 at gmail.com
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From mgbobh at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 05:10:20 2023
From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 07:10:20 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] am i chasing a ghost???
In-Reply-To: <5013d42787e14eb68d1077006a6e87f7@ranteer.com>
References: <5013d42787e14eb68d1077006a6e87f7@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <FBB68D0B-D00F-4F0E-AE0B-FC3648002E45@gmail.com>

Hi Dave,
	It seems that Master is likely the culprit. If you are reasonably certain that all the connections are snug, then Master is the only part remaining. 
	In days past I would do changes or rebuilding of one part in the system. These days I do both at the same time, considering that the total mess made is about the same in both cases,  bleeding is the same hassle, and both the parts are probably of same age.
Bob

> On Oct 2, 2023, at 9:34 PM, dave northrup <dave at ranteer.com> wrote:
> 
> 58 MGA.  Had a lot of trouble getting the clutch slave to bleed; even using a syringe to push brake fluid up the line.  I was able to get it working for a few minutes several times before it quit working.  the car never did leave the garage.
>  
> Replaced the clutch slave with one from a quality supplier, and got it to work for a few weeks.  But then it again failed to disengage the clutch.  Car was on jack stands the whole time.  was finally going to drop it and drive it around the block but no clutch.
>  
> Should I replace the master?  It and the original slave came from unmentionable motors before I found out how poor their quality is.
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com
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From dave at ranteer.com  Tue Oct  3 07:03:43 2023
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 13:03:43 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] am i chasing a ghost???
In-Reply-To: <5013d42787e14eb68d1077006a6e87f7@ranteer.com>
References: <5013d42787e14eb68d1077006a6e87f7@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <151ce42355444ad7938c5c520f1cc0cb@ranteer.com>

The fluid level in the master stays constant and there are no leaks.  I replaced the hose when I replaced the slave

From: dave northrup
Sent: Monday, October 2, 2023 8:35 PM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: am i chasing a ghost???

58 MGA.  Had a lot of trouble getting the clutch slave to bleed; even using a syringe to push brake fluid up the line.  I was able to get it working for a few minutes several times before it quit working.  the car never did leave the garage.

Replaced the clutch slave with one from a quality supplier, and got it to work for a few weeks.  But then it again failed to disengage the clutch.  Car was on jack stands the whole time.  was finally going to drop it and drive it around the block but no clutch.

Should I replace the master?  It and the original slave came from unmentionable motors before I found out how poor their quality is.
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From paulbhunt73 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  3 07:26:31 2023
From: paulbhunt73 at gmail.com (Paul Hunt)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2023 14:26:31 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] am i chasing a ghost???
In-Reply-To: <151ce42355444ad7938c5c520f1cc0cb@ranteer.com>
References: <5013d42787e14eb68d1077006a6e87f7@ranteer.com>
 <151ce42355444ad7938c5c520f1cc0cb@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <91077862-7855-7190-afa9-c5f56492a25b@gmail.com>

With the pedal wedged down what happens when you open the slave bleed 
nipple?? If fluid spurts out then there is air in the system.? If you 
only get a trickle then I suspect the pressure seal in the master isn't 
pressurising.

On 03/10/2023 14:03, dave northrup wrote:
>
> The fluid level in the master stays constant and there are no leaks.? 
> I replaced the hose when I replaced the slave
>
> *From:*dave northrup
> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2023 8:35 PM
> *To:* mgs at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* am i chasing a ghost???
>
> 58 MGA.? Had a lot of trouble getting the clutch slave to bleed; even 
> using a syringe to push brake fluid up the line.? I was able to get it 
> working for a few minutes several times before it quit working.? the 
> car never did leave the garage.
>
> Replaced the clutch slave with one from a quality supplier, and got it 
> to work for a few weeks.? But then it again failed to disengage the 
> clutch.? Car was on jack stands the whole time.? was finally going to 
> drop it and drive it around the block but no clutch.
>
> Should I replace the master?? It and the original slave came from 
> unmentionable motors before I found out how poor their quality is.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulbhunt73 at gmail.com
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From dave at ranteer.com  Fri Oct 27 08:39:16 2023
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 14:39:16 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] mbg parts
Message-ID: <9b55072508a34a3ea34b91df18a2988a@ranteer.com>

Hello list.

I just came into an aluminum MGB hood.  In excellent shape; the inside is painted red and the outside/top is primer.  I am offering it to the list first.

Also - I came into (abandoned years ago at a paint shop) the following MGB parts:

Windshield (no scratches or chips, includes frame)
1 each (left and right) door
1 hood
1 trunk lid
Front rubber bumper includes emblem and 1 light
Rear rubber bumper
2 sets of Chrome strips, straight and no bends
Radiator which leaks
72 MGB Transmission - reverse does not work

Plus a 58 MGA transmission which works just fine in all gears

These items were painted about a decade ago, maroon, and left at a paint shop.  There are scratches but no dents on the parts; they were stored carefully but in handling/storage/shipping they sustained some scratches.  They will need to be sanded and then will be ready for final paint.  There are no dents, no rust, etc.  a decade ago or so they were perfect and ready to install.  No windows, winders, chrome (except for the strips), etc.  just the metal pieces.  I have pictures; just let me know what  you want.

The parts are in Dallas so shipping might be a problem.  if you can pick them up great.

I'm going to put this on the local MG club and craigslist next but the list has been there for me for so many years so maybe I can help someone out.  I'm asking $100 for each part except the aluminum hood, the chrome strips, and the radiator.  The aluminum hood I'm pricing at $1500 or best offer.  I will work with you on shipping if need be.  The chrome strips - make me an offer.  In great shape.  the radiator - $20


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From dave at ranteer.com  Sun Oct 29 17:49:07 2023
From: dave at ranteer.com (dave northrup)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 23:49:07 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] 58 mga
Message-ID: <f0749b4467b54c8a96fb6b7bc8ee7237@ranteer.com>

I am reassembling the car; it was never running and driving under my ownership.

I noticed today as I'm attempting to get the car running and driving for the first time that there is play in the clutch in the rod that goes into the master.

It is threaded about as far out as it can go.

It occurred to me that I could thread a rod so that there is virtually no play, and that the as soon as you press the clutch pedal it will move inside the master.  It also occurred to me that that might be a bad idea. Can/should I do that?  or will it push too far inside the master and cause additional problems?  It isn't more than about ?" of play or so
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From paulbhunt73 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 02:18:53 2023
From: paulbhunt73 at gmail.com (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:18:53 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] 58 mga
In-Reply-To: <f0749b4467b54c8a96fb6b7bc8ee7237@ranteer.com>
References: <f0749b4467b54c8a96fb6b7bc8ee7237@ranteer.com>
Message-ID: <3f0cd945-7962-4191-9216-445ada16c45b@gmail.com>

What's the biting point like?? If that's fine then leave it alone.

I don't know the MGA master but on the MGB the master piston comes back 
to the circlip in the bore and positions the resting position of the 
pedal, and that determines how much 'throw' you have at the pedal, the 
slave cylinder and hence the release bearing.? Slop in the linkage at 
the pedal puts it closer to the floor and results in less slave piston 
movement and hence a lower biting point.? The same is not true of the 
linkage at the clutch end as a spring inside the slave cylinder pushes 
the piston out to take up all the play at that end, and more importantly 
to compensate for the graphite release bearing wearing down.? The more 
that wears the further the piston moves out, drawing fluid down from the 
master reservoir, so you continue to get a full stroke of the release 
arm.? That makes the MGB clutch system self-adjusting, and there is no 
scope for threaded adjustment anywhere in the system.? But as I say that 
is the MGB not the MGA.

PaulH.

On 29/10/2023 23:49, dave northrup wrote:
>
> I am reassembling the car; it was never running and driving under my 
> ownership.
>
> I noticed today as I?m attempting to get the car running and driving 
> for the first time that there is play in the clutch in the rod that 
> goes into the master.
>
> It is threaded about as far out as it can go.
>
> It occurred to me that I could thread a rod so that there is virtually 
> no play, and that the as soon as you press the clutch pedal it will 
> move inside the master.? It also occurred to me that that might be a 
> bad idea. Can/should I do that?? or will it push too far inside the 
> master and cause additional problems?? It isn?t more than about ?? of 
> play or so
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs  http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulbhunt73 at gmail.com
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From ejrussell61 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 30 12:25:48 2023
From: ejrussell61 at gmail.com (Eric Russell)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 14:25:48 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 197, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1698688802.28211.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3.1698688802.28211.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <CAP7dBXBpY7sHstxfvbn7N1po2+XGapTLn6Q0BXokrh9+o=8W8g@mail.gmail.com>

There should be a small amount of free play at the pushrod to master
cylinder piston (~ 1/16" which translates to ~ 3/8" at the pedal). This
ensures the piston is able to fully return to the off position.

Check the pushrod & clevis pin at the slave cylinder. Since they are
exposed to the elements they will often wear - the hole in the pushrod
becoming elongated & the clevis pin looking more like a mini crankshaft.
All that lost motion means the clutch doesn't operate through a full
stroke.

EjR

On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 2:10?PM <mgs-request at autox.team.net> wrote:

> Send Mgs mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. 58 mga (dave northrup)
>    2. Re: 58 mga (Paul Hunt)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 23:49:07 +0000
> From: dave northrup <dave at ranteer.com>
> To: "mgs at autox.team.net" <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Mgs] 58 mga
> Message-ID: <f0749b4467b54c8a96fb6b7bc8ee7237 at ranteer.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am reassembling the car; it was never running and driving under my
> ownership.
>
> I noticed today as I'm attempting to get the car running and driving for
> the first time that there is play in the clutch in the rod that goes into
> the master.
>
> It is threaded about as far out as it can go.
>
> It occurred to me that I could thread a rod so that there is virtually no
> play, and that the as soon as you press the clutch pedal it will move
> inside the master.  It also occurred to me that that might be a bad idea.
> Can/should I do that?  or will it push too far inside the master and cause
> additional problems?  It isn't more than about ?" of play or so
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:18:53 +0000
> From: Paul Hunt <paulbhunt73 at gmail.com>
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] 58 mga
> Message-ID: <3f0cd945-7962-4191-9216-445ada16c45b at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> What's the biting point like?? If that's fine then leave it alone.
>
> I don't know the MGA master but on the MGB the master piston comes back
> to the circlip in the bore and positions the resting position of the
> pedal, and that determines how much 'throw' you have at the pedal, the
> slave cylinder and hence the release bearing.? Slop in the linkage at
> the pedal puts it closer to the floor and results in less slave piston
> movement and hence a lower biting point.? The same is not true of the
> linkage at the clutch end as a spring inside the slave cylinder pushes
> the piston out to take up all the play at that end, and more importantly
> to compensate for the graphite release bearing wearing down.? The more
> that wears the further the piston moves out, drawing fluid down from the
> master reservoir, so you continue to get a full stroke of the release
> arm.? That makes the MGB clutch system self-adjusting, and there is no
> scope for threaded adjustment anywhere in the system.? But as I say that
> is the MGB not the MGA.
>
> PaulH.
>
> On 29/10/2023 23:49, dave northrup wrote:
> >
> > I am reassembling the car; it was never running and driving under my
> > ownership.
> >
> > I noticed today as I?m attempting to get the car running and driving
> > for the first time that there is play in the clutch in the rod that
> > goes into the master.
> >
> > It is threaded about as far out as it can go.
> >
> > It occurred to me that I could thread a rod so that there is virtually
> > no play, and that the as soon as you press the clutch pedal it will
> > move inside the master.? It also occurred to me that that might be a
> > bad idea. Can/should I do that?? or will it push too far inside the
> > master and cause additional problems?? It isn?t more than about ?? of
> > play or so
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> >
> > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs  http://autox.team.net/archive
> >
> > Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulbhunt73 at gmail.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mgs mailing list
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/mgs
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> ------------------------------
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> End of Mgs Digest, Vol 197, Issue 3
> ***********************************
>
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From paulbhunt73 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 31 02:33:33 2023
From: paulbhunt73 at gmail.com (Paul Hunt)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:33:33 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 197, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <CAP7dBXBpY7sHstxfvbn7N1po2+XGapTLn6Q0BXokrh9+o=8W8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3.1698688802.28211.mgs@autox.team.net>
 <CAP7dBXBpY7sHstxfvbn7N1po2+XGapTLn6Q0BXokrh9+o=8W8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <709e938b-c2ab-443e-85f8-d20361c2b6da@gmail.com>

Second para is not correct, the self-adjusting nature of the clutch 
means wear at the slave end is automatically compensated for.? I know I 
have no experience of the MGA but read Barney Gaylord's page, the 
paragraph commencing "One of the key features ...": 
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/clutch/ct_100.htm

Yes there should be some free play at the pedal.? If the master piston 
can't come back the bypass port may not open and fluid not be able to 
flow freely between reservoir and? slave with the pedal released.? This 
is essential so that fluid expansion as the system heats up does not 
apply excess pressure to the release bearing with the pedal released 
which can cause clutch slip, and also to allow the self-adjusting 
function to operate correctly.? OTOH too much free play e.g. from worn 
components there causes a low biting point, which is why I said if the 
biting point is fine then leave it alone.

PaulH.

On 30/10/2023 18:25, Eric Russell wrote:
> There should be a small amount of free play at the pushrod to master 
> cylinder piston (~ 1/16" which translates to ~ 3/8" at the pedal). 
> This ensures the piston is able to fully return to the off position.
>
> Check the pushrod & clevis pin at the slave cylinder. Since they are 
> exposed to the elements they will often wear - the hole in the pushrod 
> becoming elongated & the clevis pin looking more like a mini 
> crankshaft. All that lost motion means the clutch doesn't operate 
> through a full stroke.
>
> EjR
>
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From ejrussell61 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 31 12:33:34 2023
From: ejrussell61 at gmail.com (Eric Russell)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 14:33:34 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] 58 mga
Message-ID: <CAP7dBXBZuMkDn4HLbL6ve9RYpRF50TwBcOQZ7_nSieFdN2h3mw@mail.gmail.com>

> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:33:33 +0000
> From: Paul Hunt <paulbhunt73 at gmail.com>
>
> Second para is not correct, the self-adjusting nature of the clutch
> means wear at the slave end is automatically compensated for.? I know I
> have no experience of the MGA but read Barney Gaylord's page, the
> paragraph commencing "One of the key features ...":
> https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/clutch/ct_100.htm

Yes, the hydraulic clutch will compensate for wear in the *clutch*
components. But wear in the operating parts (like the slave's
pushrod/clevis) results in lost motion - the first bit of movement of the
slave cylinder will only take up the slack and not actually move the clutch
fork.

-- 
Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
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