From dan.dibiase at gmail.com Fri Apr 2 09:33:02 2021 From: dan.dibiase at gmail.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2021 11:33:02 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept Message-ID: Interesting concept car. https://electrek.co/2021/04/01/mg-motor-unveils-cyberster-electric-sports-car-concept/ Dan D '76B, '65B Project (soon up for sale) Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrob at bell.net Fri Apr 2 10:07:05 2021 From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2021 12:07:05 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] It's true is it not? Message-ID: Oh my god,? Now you have me worried about that widow who was going to send me 3 million US after she had paid for the bank charges which she wanted me to provide 'cos she was broke.?? Surely she must be true as no one could make this up - could they??? Chortle, chortle Barrie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccrobins at ktc.com Fri Apr 2 10:15:29 2021 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charles Robinson) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2021 11:15:29 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22dbba3e-583f-000e-1188-3f27ef0e6994@ktc.com> Take off those headrests and I'll like it. CR On 4/2/2021 10:33 AM, Dan DiBiase wrote: > Interesting concept?car. > > https://electrek.co/2021/04/01/mg-motor-unveils-cyberster-electric-sports-car-concept/ > > > Dan D > '76B, '65B Project (soon up for sale) > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ptroot at gmail.com Fri Apr 2 10:25:50 2021 From: ptroot at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2021 11:25:50 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The world has gone SUV. This is eye-candy to get people to think MG, but it will never come out. I don't really like the angles, you can't really see what it would look like. They have had a number of concepts over the last few years that all "harken back" or "reminisce" about past cars. But they never go forward. All the companies do that. Nissan really got me 5 years ago when they did a retro 510 thing. I was ready to buy that. But after saying they really want to think about building it, they just dropped it. There is also the part about MG won't come back to the US. On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 10:33 AM Dan DiBiase wrote: > Interesting concept car. > > > https://electrek.co/2021/04/01/mg-motor-unveils-cyberster-electric-sports-car-concept/ > > Dan D > '76B, '65B Project (soon up for sale) > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BksTrpcHsq61tmMoo0C-PS1WUG7pfAgwZh0Aa_aTDtYug%40mail.gmail.com > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From difejo1 at gmail.com Fri Apr 2 11:06:47 2021 From: difejo1 at gmail.com (John DiFede) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2021 13:06:47 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] It's true is it not? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I learned my lesson after I sent my retirement savings to the Nigerian Prince. ? Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 2, 2021, at 12:28 PM, Barrie Robinson wrote: > > ? Oh my god, Now you have me worried about that widow who was going to send me 3 million US after she had paid for the bank charges which she wanted me to provide 'cos she was broke. Surely she must be true as no one could make this up - could they??? > > Chortle, chortle > Barrie _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/difejo1 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan.dibiase at gmail.com Mon Apr 5 05:22:03 2021 From: dan.dibiase at gmail.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:22:03 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: <23DF3CA4EFBD407590513F184D248709@paul> References: <23DF3CA4EFBD407590513F184D248709@paul> Message-ID: Yes, but since it's being reported across multiple sources, and does seem to fit in with MG's heritage, I don't think it's a joke. Besides, I don't think April Fools Day is a thing in China...! Dan D Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 4:00 AM PaulBHunt73 wrote: > Erm, did you look at the date of the press release? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dan DiBiase > *To:* MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com ; mglist > *Sent:* Friday, April 02, 2021 4:33 PM > *Subject:* New MG Sports Car Concept > > Interesting concept car. > > > https://electrek.co/2021/04/01/mg-motor-unveils-cyberster-electric-sports-car-concept/ > > Dan D > '76B, '65B Project (soon up for sale) > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BksTrpcHsq61tmMoo0C-PS1WUG7pfAgwZh0Aa_aTDtYug%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ptroot at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 13:30:25 2021 From: ptroot at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:30:25 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done youtube videos for them. Worth a look. I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble wrote: > I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. > > Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, > both in mining it and disposing of it. > > The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest > and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will > take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. > > The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot > heavier. > > I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're > lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about > $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the > seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius > (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car > without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the > cost of replacing the batteries or engine. > > Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of > hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully > electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop > every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the > charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current > flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. > > I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to > cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through > the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for > this now, but this remains a problem. > > Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. > No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations > until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are > reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. > That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now > being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. > ------------------------------ > *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM > *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < > dan.dibiase at gmail.com> > *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; > MG-MGA-MGB > *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports > Car Concept > > I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I > am missing something. > > When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out > same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. > > Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire usage > and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. > Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per > tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. > > In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from > Tesla) would run $8,800. > > In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil > changes the total is about $8,500. > > But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. > > Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars > ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. > What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. > > And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would > be nearly impossible. > > I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging > non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging > hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a > day could get old. > > I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. > > Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much > like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh > battery. Changed from below. > > Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might have > more. > > Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would > report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a > battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out > of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery > had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just > swap the half used battery. > > I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to > be built in order as the robots don't care. > > The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is tough > to see until many years from now. > > So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for > trips, but the current model works for me. > > A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries > > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries > > We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer > can outrun its predecessor. > > > > > > > > > Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com > resch at reschonline.com > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < > dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 > modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner > wrote: > > This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla > wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little > sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I > never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked > together. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on > behalf of PaulBHunt73 > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM > *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB > > *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept > > Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the > current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys > for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and > driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall > revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based > on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything > with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another > internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ptroot at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 13:32:23 2021 From: ptroot at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:32:23 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That said, I don't have an electric car. I've never spent near enough on a car to get one. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:30 PM Paul Root wrote: > Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's > done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done > youtube videos for them. Worth a look. > > I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a > google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble wrote: > >> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. >> >> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, >> both in mining it and disposing of it. >> >> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest >> and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will >> take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. >> >> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot >> heavier. >> >> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're >> lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about >> $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the >> seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius >> (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car >> without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the >> cost of replacing the batteries or engine. >> >> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of >> hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully >> electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop >> every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the >> charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current >> flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. >> >> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to >> cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through >> the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for >> this now, but this remains a problem. >> >> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. >> No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations >> until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are >> reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. >> That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now >> being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM >> *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < >> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> >> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; >> MG-MGA-MGB >> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports >> Car Concept >> >> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I >> am missing something. >> >> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out >> same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. >> >> Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire >> usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. >> Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per >> tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. >> >> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from >> Tesla) would run $8,800. >> >> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil >> changes the total is about $8,500. >> >> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. >> >> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars >> ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. >> What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. >> >> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would >> be nearly impossible. >> >> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging >> non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging >> hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a >> day could get old. >> >> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. >> >> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much >> like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh >> battery. Changed from below. >> >> Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might >> have more. >> >> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would >> report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a >> battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out >> of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery >> had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just >> swap the half used battery. >> >> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to >> be built in order as the robots don't care. >> >> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is >> tough to see until many years from now. >> >> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for >> trips, but the current model works for me. >> >> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: >> >> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >> >> >> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >> >> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer >> can outrun its predecessor. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com >> resch at reschonline.com >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < >> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 >> modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). >> >> Dan D >> Central NJ USA >> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner >> wrote: >> >> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla >> wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little >> sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I >> never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked >> together. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on >> behalf of PaulBHunt73 >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM >> *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >> MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept >> >> Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the >> current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys >> for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and >> driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall >> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based >> on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything >> with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another >> internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ptroot at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 14:30:46 2021 From: ptroot at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 15:30:46 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of the US, 10 year 150K for California. The closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric, or the VW Golf E-something. I think Telsa cost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is really a software company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they will make it as more car companies start building more electric cars. Reports I've seen, is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is not great. I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my life, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble wrote: > When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was a > few years ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have > improved. > > That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation. > > It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasoline > and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline > engine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the > opposite direction (replacing a gas engine with electric), these were not > production vehicles. All the ones I've seen have simply replaced the gas > engine with an electric motor, while retaining the transmission, clutch and > differential. This is not optimal. > > The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Honda Civic > and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got around 40 > mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k more than > the gas version, the payback period was many years. > > Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in part, > because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. Compared to > GM, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production vehicle. > Secondly, it costs a LOT of money to start a car company from the ground > up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that Elon > Musk made a conscious decision to position the Tesla in an upscale market > for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance, but > the primary attraction. > > As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and more > vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices will > come down. > > I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Gas > vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become. > Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical > improvements that must be made, but all that will happen. One area that I > suspect gas vehicles can never compete with electric vehicles is emissions. > Gas cars will never reach zero emissions. EVs are already there. > ------------------------------ > *From:* Paul Root > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM > *To:* Paul Noble > *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB > > *Subject:* Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG > Sports Car Concept > > Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's > done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done > youtube videos for them. Worth a look. > > I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a > google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble wrote: > > I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. > > Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, > both in mining it and disposing of it. > > The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest > and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will > take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. > > The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot > heavier. > > I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're > lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about > $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the > seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius > (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car > without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the > cost of replacing the batteries or engine. > > Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of > hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully > electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop > every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the > charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current > flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. > > I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to > cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through > the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for > this now, but this remains a problem. > > Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. > No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations > until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are > reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. > That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now > being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. > ------------------------------ > *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM > *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < > dan.dibiase at gmail.com> > *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; > MG-MGA-MGB > *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports > Car Concept > > I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I > am missing something. > > When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out > same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. > > Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire usage > and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. > Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per > tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. > > In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from > Tesla) would run $8,800. > > In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil > changes the total is about $8,500. > > But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. > > Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars > ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. > What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. > > And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would > be nearly impossible. > > I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging > non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging > hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a > day could get old. > > I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. > > Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much > like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh > battery. Changed from below. > > Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might have > more. > > Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would > report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a > battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out > of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery > had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just > swap the half used battery. > > I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to > be built in order as the robots don't care. > > The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is tough > to see until many years from now. > > So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for > trips, but the current model works for me. > > A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries > > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries > > We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer > can outrun its predecessor. > > > > > > > > > Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com > resch at reschonline.com > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < > dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 > modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner > wrote: > > This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla > wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little > sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I > never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked > together. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on > behalf of PaulBHunt73 > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM > *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB > > *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept > > Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the > current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys > for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and > driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall > revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based > on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything > with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another > internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB173898DE95989A996B4CD855B4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccrobins at ktc.com Wed Apr 7 00:42:18 2021 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charles Robinson) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 01:42:18 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8349c82b-c150-4021-216c-256bae3ba3ee@ktc.com> I own a 2007 Prius, it has just over 63K miles on it. It has two batteries.? One is a flooded lead acid,? used for the same thing any car uses its 12 volt battery for. The other (motor) battery is not lithium, it's NiCd, commonly called nicad.? It shares with the engine in moving the car.? Newer Prius use NiMH motor? batteries up until 2015.? IN 2015 and later? Prius have NiMH or lithium ion, depending on model.? The motor battery in my Prius is still under warranty because it was a "Toyota Certified" used car, bought from a Toyota dealer with less than 10K miles on the clock. That motor battery is under the rear passenger seat and is encapsulated in a housing.? The gas tank is larger in volume. Now, my Prius is not an EV, it's a hybrid gas/electric vehicle. It runs on gasoline, uses the motor battery as an aid to movement when needed.? When I back out of my driveway it's an electric car.? When I take off down the street the engine kicks on as needed.? OOPS, not quite true.? When I start my Prius from dead cold, the engine will start and run until the catalytic converter warms up, then the engine shuts down until needed to move the car. When the engine is not running it's an EV but it recharges itself. When running down the road my Prius is a 1.5 liter, 4 cylinder, gas car.? Stand on the throttle and it's a 3 liter V6 when the electric motor kicks in, which is instantaneous.? It's a great, comfortable road car with fine freeway performance. But, it's not an MGB. CR On 4/6/2021 2:32 PM, Paul Root wrote: > That said, I don't have an electric car. I've never spent near > enough?on a car to get one. > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:30 PM Paul Root > wrote: > > Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa?Model 3 last year. > He's done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of > course, has done youtube videos for them. Worth a look. > > I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first > hit on a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble > wrote: > > I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and > hybrid cars. > > Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally > problematic, both in mining it and disposing of it. > > The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most > economical, safest and densest way to transport energy. In > most cases, a tank of gasoline will take a car farther than a > fully charged battery will. > > The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and > a lot heavier. > > I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard > that you're lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. > Replacing them costs about $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't > even consider a used Prius, unless the seller showed me > receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius (or > Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a > conventional car without an engine. It might be a good deal, > but you have to factor in the cost of replacing the batteries > or engine. > > Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a > couple of hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of > batteries on a fully electric vehicle. That makes long trips a > problem, if you have to stop every four hours for a two hour > recharge. They could probably speed up the charging process > but that would require much higher voltages or current flow, > both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation > problems. > > I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when > trying to cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and > accidentally cut through the main battery cable. I know that > first responders have been trained for this now, but this > remains a problem. > > Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging > stations. No one wants to spend a lot of money installing > public charging stations until there are a lot of EVs to use > them. Conversely, many buyers are reluctant to buy an EV > because there are not many public charging stations. That is > why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill > now being debated in Congress includes funding to build > charging stations. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM > *To:* James Dillner >; Dan DiBiase > > > *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 >; mglist >; MG-MGA-MGB > > > *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New > MG Sports Car Concept > I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument > but feel I am missing something. > > When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. > Turns out same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both.? Pretty > similar. > > Presuming the cars mission is the same.? Build quality > similar, tire usage and performance in real world use > equivalent I did some comparisons.? Stupid fast Tesla > acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per tank > range.? ?My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. > > In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got > this from Tesla) would run $8,800. > > In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - > $65 oil changes the total is about $8,500. > > But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. > > Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 > dollars ahead. I am negating resale.? A 100,000 Mazda6 is > nicely broken in.. What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life > expectancy.? I just do not know. > > And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 > miles would be nearly impossible. > > I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and > charging non-existent.? One hotel out of 13 had charging > stations.? Rapid charging hurts battery life.? Standing around > for a half hour a couple of times a day could get old. > > I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what > will win. > > Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a > system much like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 > minutes with a fresh battery.? Changed from below. > > Automatically changed.? SUVs might? have two batteries.? > Trucks might have more. > > Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed > packs would report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: > you knew you would have a battery ready and B: that there was > no need to squeeze every last drop out of yours.? You'd pay a > charge to belong to the system and what your battery had left. > So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just > swap the half used battery. > > I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the > same model to be built in order as the robots don't care. > > The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough > spigots is tough to see until many years from now. > > So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent > a car for trips, but the current model works for me. > > A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the > Centuries > > > > > > > > > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the > Centuries > > We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's > automotive pioneer can outrun its predecessor. > > > > > > > > > Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses > pcresch at yahoo.com > resch at reschonline.com > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase > > wrote: > > > Yes, there are 7000-something individual?cells bundled into > about 15 modules that make up the battery pack in the Model > 3/Y (77kWh battery). > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner > > wrote: > > This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures > of the Tesla wreck where the battery pack tore apart?? > There were thousands of little sub-c > cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place.? > Somehow I never dreamed that those power packs were made > up of cells all linked together. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com > > > on behalf of > PaulBHunt73 > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM > *Cc:* mglist >; MG-MGA-MGB > > > *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept > Each to their own.? I can't see myself?ever buying an EV > based on the current range and recharging situation where > they are little more than toys for local journeys.? If?I > get to the point when I'm still around and driving but?run > out of satisfactory used?'real' cars?to buy then I shall > revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern > set-up.... ;-) Based on my first month with my Tesla > Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything with an > electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan > to buy another internal combustion vehicle for my > daily use. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > from it, send an email to > mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul > . > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > from it, send an email to > mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com > . > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com > . > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com > . > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Wed Apr 7 20:23:49 2021 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:23:49 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: <8349c82b-c150-4021-216c-256bae3ba3ee@ktc.com> References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> <8349c82b-c150-4021-216c-256bae3ba3ee@ktc.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:50 PM Charles Robinson wrote: > > When running down the road my Prius is a 1.5 liter, 4 cylinder, gas car. > Stand on the throttle and it's a 3 liter V6 when the electric motor kicks > in, which is instantaneous. It's a great, comfortable road car with fine > freeway performance. > What does that make my Tesla when I stand on the throttle? > But, it's not an MGB. > But, it's not an MGA. Simon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mogrits at gmail.com Wed Apr 7 21:11:01 2021 From: mogrits at gmail.com (Mogrits) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 23:11:01 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 167, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. > > No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations > > until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are > > reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging > stations. > > That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now > > being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. > > Can someone explain for me this concept of a "public charging station"? The ones I've seen in my town, available to the public, do not appear to have card swipes or coin slots. Are these "public charging stations" free? (Regardless of your answer, they are not "free"). So how long can the taxpayers afford to pay for peoples "gas money"? If the government is building charging stations, are they now in direct competition with gas station owners? Is this a good thing? In most States, only authorized Utility companies can legally sell electricity. If the States decide to "charge to charge", or if charging stations got privatized, are the charging station owners selling anything at their "pumps" other than electricity and is this legal? Will the Utility companies end up owning the "gas pumps" at these private stations and will there be competition from street corner to street corner for lowest $/kwh or will people have to buy their gas from a monopoly which is what electric companies are? None of this has been well thought out, and it will have major repercussions. Power generators will need ever more coal and natural gas while domestic sources have been bankrupted and shut down. The environment will suffer overall, both in CO2 (not that there's anything wrong with CO2) but most especially, the additional global mess that will happen from lithium and coal mining and petroleum extraction in countries with less controls than we have here in the US. A lot of people will get rich off the back of US taxpayers, but the "environment" will only get worse. Warren -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrob at bell.net Thu Apr 8 09:14:59 2021 From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 11:14:59 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 167, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5df2615d-892f-700f-d661-6c075d8c509b@bell.net> Don't worry Warren, the big companies will find a way to make a huge profit at the expense of the underwealthed while the Govt watches glassy eyed and thumbs up their bums. What amazes me is the perception that going electric will lessen the strain on the environment. Cheers Barrie On 4/7/2021 11:11 PM, Mogrits wrote: > > > Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging > stations. > > No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging > stations > > until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many > buyers are > > reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public > charging stations. > > That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure > bill now > > being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging > stations. > > > Can someone explain for me this concept of a "public charging > station"? The ones I've seen in my town, available to the public, do > not appear to have card swipes or coin slots. Are these "public > charging stations" free? (Regardless of your answer, they are not > "free"). So how long can the taxpayers afford to pay for peoples "gas > money"? If the government is building charging stations, are they now > in direct competition with gas station owners? Is this a good thing? > In most States, only authorized Utility companies can legally sell > electricity. If the States decide to "charge to charge", or if > charging stations got privatized, are the charging station owners > selling anything at their "pumps" other than electricity and is this > legal? Will the Utility companies end up owning the "gas pumps" at > these private stations and will there be competition from street > corner to street corner for lowest $/kwh or will people have to buy > their gas from a monopoly which is what electric companies are? > > None of this has been well thought out, and it will have major > repercussions. Power generators will need ever more coal and natural > gas while domestic sources have been bankrupted and shut down. The > environment will suffer overall, both in CO2 (not that there's > anything wrong with CO2) but most especially, the additional global > mess that will happen from lithium and coal mining and petroleum > extraction in countries with less controls than we have here in the > US. A lot of people will get rich off the back of US taxpayers, but > the "environment" will only get worse. > > Warren > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mvheim at sonic.net Thu Apr 8 11:14:21 2021 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 10:14:21 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 167, Issue 3 [OT discussions] In-Reply-To: <5df2615d-892f-700f-d661-6c075d8c509b@bell.net> References: <5df2615d-892f-700f-d661-6c075d8c509b@bell.net> Message-ID: <775B1A91-83B4-4476-AD07-2171C0C315EC@sonic.net> I think it?s time to table this completely off topic discussion. Back on the topic of MGs, I couldn?t think of what to buy with a $150 gift certificate from Moss. The only thing I needed was a $15 ignition switch (mine is so sloppy that it only cranks the engine maybe one out of four tries). I finally decided to splurge on things I normally wouldn?t spend on: the wooden knockoff protector, and a couple of pricey books. -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Apr 8, 2021, at 8:14 AM, Barrie Robinson wrote: > > Don't worry Warren, the big companies will find a way to make a huge profit at the expense of the underwealthed while the Govt watches glassy eyed and thumbs up their bums. > > What amazes me is the perception that going electric will lessen the strain on the environment. > > Cheers > Barrie > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britfan1 at epix.net Fri Apr 9 09:29:59 2021 From: britfan1 at epix.net (S.Carr) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 11:29:59 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] B/GT electrical problems Message-ID: #1 ? tachometer ? after working sporadically, the tach in my ?71 B/GT has finally quit completely. #2 ? temperature gauge ? until we started it up this spring, the gauge has never been above ?N? (except for one long uphill crawl with a loose fan belt). Now, after only a few minutes at idle, it went rapidly to ?H?. Would either of these problems be due to a problem with the gauge voltage stabilizer? The wiring diagram shows wires going from both of these gauges to the stabilizer. I have a vague memory of having a stabilizer fail years ago, and some of the gauges not working thereafter, but I don?t remember which ones it was. Wisdom of the List? Thanks in advance, Sarah Carr ?71 B/GT in PA Sent from Mail for Windows 10 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From difejo1 at gmail.com Fri Apr 9 10:30:05 2021 From: difejo1 at gmail.com (John DiFede) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 12:30:05 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] B/GT electrical problems In-Reply-To: <20210409153729.2797BA0FF4@autox.team.net> References: <20210409153729.2797BA0FF4@autox.team.net> Message-ID: Sarah. The voltage stabilizer sends reduced voltage to the fuel and temp gauges. The temp gauge going up to H may be a wiring problem. If the wire to the temp sending unit is grounded that could cause the gauge to read H. The tach not working may be a different problem. Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 9, 2021, at 11:37 AM, S.Carr wrote: > > ? > #1 ? tachometer ? after working sporadically, the tach in my ?71 B/GT has finally quit completely. > #2 ? temperature gauge ? until we started it up this spring, the gauge has never been above ?N? (except for one long uphill crawl with a loose fan belt). Now, after only a few minutes at idle, it went rapidly to ?H?. > > Would either of these problems be due to a problem with the gauge voltage stabilizer? The wiring diagram shows wires going from both of these gauges to the stabilizer. I have a vague memory of having a stabilizer fail years ago, and some of the gauges not working thereafter, but I don?t remember which ones it was. Wisdom of the List? > > Thanks in advance, > Sarah Carr > ?71 B/GT in PA > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/difejo1 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgbobh at gmail.com Fri Apr 9 10:55:47 2021 From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 12:55:47 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] B/GT electrical problems In-Reply-To: <20210409153754.95B7EA0DCB@autox.team.net> References: <20210409153754.95B7EA0DCB@autox.team.net> Message-ID: The line voltage stabiliser is common to both Tach and Fuel gauge, and is always suspect. They do, however, tend to last many years (unless they don?t). What I would do first is to ensure that both wires on the coil are secure. One excites the tach, and if the connection is dodgy the tach can be erratic. Also check the fuses, as they are frequent suspects too, though unlikely in this case. Loosen, then tighten, the screw securing the stabiliser to the bulkhead. Good connection for earthing is important. WIth an old-style, needle-type analogue voltmeter, check the output voltage of the stabiliser. Awkward to get at, but it must be tested in the car. Voltage will vary, if it is the original points-type stabiliser, swinging the needle up and down the scale, but you are looking for a mid-point average of 10V. If yours is the newer type, electronic, it should be steady at 10V. Because the temp jumped as it did, I would recommend that you also use an infrared thermometer to check actual temp at the thermostat. They can fail unpredictably. Bob > On Apr 9, 2021, at 11:29 AM, S.Carr wrote: > > #1 ? tachometer ? after working sporadically, the tach in my ?71 B/GT has finally quit completely. > #2 ? temperature gauge ? until we started it up this spring, the gauge has never been above ?N? (except for one long uphill crawl with a loose fan belt). Now, after only a few minutes at idle, it went rapidly to ?H?. > > Would either of these problems be due to a problem with the gauge voltage stabilizer? The wiring diagram shows wires going from both of these gauges to the stabilizer. I have a vague memory of having a stabilizer fail years ago, and some of the gauges not working thereafter, but I don?t remember which ones it was. Wisdom of the List? > > Thanks in advance, > Sarah Carr > ?71 B/GT in PA > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Sat Apr 10 01:58:56 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 08:58:56 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] B/GT electrical problems References: <20210409153751.DD18CA10F1@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <78872833578F41BC97459B0C8A451752@paul> The fact that one has been intermittent for a while and the other only happened recently implies they are not the same fault. The voltage stabiliser only supplies power to the fuel and electric temp gauges, not the tach. The confusion with the tach is that the green supply to the tach is often daisy chained off the 12v terminal feeding the voltage stabiliser. If all three were failing to register then it could be the green supply to the voltage stabiliser (and hence the tach) that had failed, other than that they are separate problems. Because the fuel and electric temp gauges are fed from the voltage stabiliser if the stabiliser fails in that it continually supplies system voltage to those gauges then they will read high, and will vary as system voltage goes up and down. The simple test for that is to switch on the ignition but don't start the engine, and note the fuel gauge reading once it has stabilised tapping the gauge with a knuckle occasionally. Then start the engine and get it charging, and if the fuel gauge goes up then the stabiliser is faulty. If the temp gauge started heading for H as soon as you switched on the ignition then the blue/green wire to the sender is shorting out. But if it only starts rising once the engine is running it's more like something causing excess heat, perhaps low coolant causing boiling, other than that the sender may have failed in an unusual way. If the tach stops working but the engine continues to run then it could be a wiring problem or an internal fault. For the former either loss of the 12v or earth supplies to the case, or if anything has changed with the ignition coil wiring the power to the coil could be bypassing the trigger circuit in the tach. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- #1 ? tachometer ? after working sporadically, the tach in my ?71 B/GT has finally quit completely. #2 ? temperature gauge ? until we started it up this spring, the gauge has never been above ?N? (except for one long uphill crawl with a loose fan belt). Now, after only a few minutes at idle, it went rapidly to ?H?. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at bradakis.com Sun Apr 11 07:02:17 2021 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 07:02:17 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. Message-ID: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> On this day 30 years ago Team.Net came into being.? The British-cars mailing list was already going strong, an offshoot from rec.autos Usenet group.? Dale Cook, Jim Muller, then me. Team.net went from 2 lists at the beginning, autox and british-cars, and exploded into nearly 70 different lists with something like 15,000 individuals subscribed at its peak.? For a while it was pretty much the only game in town.? As I recall, when I attended the SCCA Solo II Nationals 25th Anniversary event, something like 2/3rds of the 1,000+ entrants were on the autox list. And it amazes me that with such a scatterbrained procrastinator like me behind the curtain it is still on the air. It is a lot quieter these days, much better software handle many of the janitorial tasks automatically.? Back in the beginning, I had to do *everything* by hand, so to speak. Subscribes, unsubscribes, errors, I was spending 10, 15, 20 hours a week maintaining the server.? The first server had a 100 MHz processor.? Things have changed.? Back then just having a fast network connection at a residence was rare and expensive.? Good old DSL.? I remember that time when my service provider went belly up, and team net was off the air for 11 days straight.? I don't miss those days at all. Anyway, happy birthday to those of you still here.? I hope I can continue to provide a useful service for years to come. mjb. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: team_net.png Type: image/png Size: 17671 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ddarby at centurytel.net Sun Apr 11 07:44:23 2021 From: ddarby at centurytel.net (David F. Darby) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 08:44:23 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. In-Reply-To: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> References: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <046501d72ed8$c88cc000$59a64000$@centurytel.net> Thanks, Mark. You are still appreciated. David Darby > -----Original Message----- > From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Mark J > Bradakis > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2021 8:02 AM > To: mglist > Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. > > On this day 30 years ago Team.Net came into being. The British-cars mailing... > > Anyway, happy birthday to those of you still here. I hope I can continue to > provide a useful service for years to come. > > mjb. From mgbobh at gmail.com Sun Apr 11 09:20:26 2021 From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 11:20:26 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. In-Reply-To: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> References: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Mark. Many of us have made numerous friends, in-person and by email, via Team.Net. Before Team.Net I did not know what to do with a dead cat (newer readers will not get this). Members have talked me through numerous little puzzles of things electrical and in my overdrive. It was through Team.Net that I was introduced to Peter Caldwell, Worldwide Auto; Jeff Schlemmer, Advanced Distributors; Barney Gaylord, MGA Guru, and several others whose help has been indispensable, not to mention encouragement to find even more uses for the Dremel Tool. Could you publish your mailing address for donations by check? Bob > On Apr 11, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > On this day 30 years ago Team.Net came into being. The British-cars mailing list was already going strong, an offshoot from rec.autos Usenet group. Dale Cook, Jim Muller, then me. Team.net went from 2 lists at the beginning, autox and british-cars, and exploded into nearly 70 different lists with something like 15,000 individuals subscribed at its peak. For a while it was pretty much the only game in town. As I recall, when I attended the SCCA Solo II Nationals 25th Anniversary event, something like 2/3rds of the 1,000+ entrants were on the autox list. > > And it amazes me that with such a scatterbrained procrastinator like me behind the curtain it is still on the air. It is a lot quieter these days, much better software handle many of the janitorial tasks automatically. Back in the beginning, I had to do *everything* by hand, so to speak. Subscribes, unsubscribes, errors, I was spending 10, 15, 20 hours a week maintaining the server. The first server had a 100 MHz processor. Things have changed. Back then just having a fast network connection at a residence was rare and expensive. Good old DSL. I remember that time when my service provider went belly up, and team net was off the air for 11 days straight. I don't miss those days at all. > > Anyway, happy birthday to those of you still here. I hope I can continue to provide a useful service for years to come. > > mjb. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com From mark at bradakis.com Sun Apr 11 10:16:15 2021 From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 10:16:15 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. In-Reply-To: References: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <1b4018c5-ba60-999c-ce5d-ffbabca9d9fd@bradakis.com> On 4/11/21 9:20 AM, Robert's New iPad wrote: > Thank you, Mark. [...] > Could you publish your mailing address for donations by check? Every list message has this link: Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html Thanks for your support. mjb. From eric at erickson.on.net Sun Apr 11 10:23:32 2021 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 02:23:32 +1000 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. In-Reply-To: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> References: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <2949CE71-F9A1-418D-B411-C90FCCDE8981@erickson.on.net> Thanks Mark Back then I had a 4 banger street machine. Now have a V8 and triple the bang. Moving ahead is the only way to go. Eric 1979 MGB V8 230KW Australia > On 11 Apr 2021, at 11:02 pm, Mark J Bradakis wrote: > > On this day 30 years ago Team.Net came into being. The British-cars mailing list was already going strong, an offshoot from rec.autos Usenet group. Dale Cook, Jim Muller, then me. Team.net went from 2 lists at the beginning, autox and british-cars, and exploded into nearly 70 different lists with something like 15,000 individuals subscribed at its peak. For a while it was pretty much the only game in town. As I recall, when I attended the SCCA Solo II Nationals 25th Anniversary event, something like 2/3rds of the 1,000+ entrants were on the autox list. > > And it amazes me that with such a scatterbrained procrastinator like me behind the curtain it is still on the air. It is a lot quieter these days, much better software handle many of the janitorial tasks automatically. Back in the beginning, I had to do *everything* by hand, so to speak. Subscribes, unsubscribes, errors, I was spending 10, 15, 20 hours a week maintaining the server. The first server had a 100 MHz processor. Things have changed. Back then just having a fast network connection at a residence was rare and expensive. Good old DSL. I remember that time when my service provider went belly up, and team net was off the air for 11 days straight. I don't miss those days at all. > > Anyway, happy birthday to those of you still here. I hope I can continue to provide a useful service for years to come. > > mjb. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eric at erickson.on.net From barrob at bell.net Sun Apr 11 10:30:06 2021 From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 12:30:06 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. In-Reply-To: References: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <1b9c45e2-127e-ec28-ec77-91525d073a73@bell.net> Hello folks, I have been a Team.net member since Moses bought his materials for the ark.? It has done nothing short of being amazing.?? One blazing effort was obtaining two panels for my MGB GT V8 from a member at under $300 when 'suppliers' wanted $3,000 (for those arithmatically minded that is1/10 the price). /But wait there is more! /The parts arrived and I was gob-smacked to find they where /original BL parts !!!! /I run the Aston Martin Feltham Club with a mere 165 members - BUT membership is not simple as we keep a record of members data - including photos.?? So I know what it is like for Mark. AND I do not have his computer skills. Mark - can I send wampum by PayPal????? Cheers Barrie www.amfclub.com // On 4/11/2021 11:20 AM, Robert's New iPad wrote: > Thank you, Mark. > Many of us have made numerous friends, in-person and by email, via Team.Net. > Before Team.Net I did not know what to do with a dead cat (newer readers will not get this). > Members have talked me through numerous little puzzles of things electrical and in my overdrive. It was through Team.Net that I was introduced to Peter Caldwell, Worldwide Auto; Jeff Schlemmer, Advanced Distributors; Barney Gaylord, MGA Guru, and several others whose help has been indispensable, not to mention encouragement to find even more uses for the Dremel Tool. > Could you publish your mailing address for donations by check? > Bob > > >> On Apr 11, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Mark J Bradakis wrote: >> >> On this day 30 years ago Team.Net came into being. The British-cars mailing list was already going strong, an offshoot from rec.autos Usenet group. Dale Cook, Jim Muller, then me. Team.net went from 2 lists at the beginning, autox and british-cars, and exploded into nearly 70 different lists with something like 15,000 individuals subscribed at its peak. For a while it was pretty much the only game in town. As I recall, when I attended the SCCA Solo II Nationals 25th Anniversary event, something like 2/3rds of the 1,000+ entrants were on the autox list. >> >> And it amazes me that with such a scatterbrained procrastinator like me behind the curtain it is still on the air. It is a lot quieter these days, much better software handle many of the janitorial tasks automatically. Back in the beginning, I had to do *everything* by hand, so to speak. Subscribes, unsubscribes, errors, I was spending 10, 15, 20 hours a week maintaining the server. The first server had a 100 MHz processor. Things have changed. Back then just having a fast network connection at a residence was rare and expensive. Good old DSL. I remember that time when my service provider went belly up, and team net was off the air for 11 days straight. I don't miss those days at all. >> >> Anyway, happy birthday to those of you still here. I hope I can continue to provide a useful service for years to come. >> >> mjb. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Tue Apr 6 06:41:12 2021 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:41:12 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> If you really want the look and feel of an MG roadster in a modern setup, I?d opt for the Mazda MX5 ? Miata. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT still hibernating, as the snow falls? Van: Mgs Namens Paul Root Verzonden: vrijdag 2 april 2021 18:26 Aan: Dan DiBiase CC: mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept The world has gone SUV. This is eye-candy to get people to think MG, but it will never come out. I don't really like the angles, you can't really see what it would look like. They have had a number of concepts over the last few years that all "harken back" or "reminisce" about past cars. But they never go forward. All the companies do that. Nissan really got me 5 years ago when they did a retro 510 thing. I was ready to buy that. But after saying they really want to think about building it, they just dropped it. There is also the part about MG won't come back to the US. On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 10:33 AM Dan DiBiase > wrote: Interesting concept car. https://electrek.co/2021/04/01/mg-motor-unveils-cyberster-electric-sports-car-concept/ Dan D '76B, '65B Project (soon up for sale) Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BksTrpcHsq61tmMoo0C-PS1WUG7pfAgwZh0Aa_aTDtYug%40mail.gmail.com . -- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ptroot at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 06:54:02 2021 From: ptroot at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 07:54:02 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> Message-ID: Sure, however the only one I really fit in is the first gen. My boss did have a 2nd gen that he added a turbo to ,and let me drive it once. If I owned it, I probably wouldn't have a license anymore. I could only drive that with the top down. Same thing with the 370Z. I can't even get in the coupe. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 7:41 AM wrote: > If you really want the look and feel of an MG roadster in a modern setup, > I?d opt for the Mazda MX5 ? Miata. > > > > Cheers, > > Hans > > 71 BGT still hibernating, as the snow falls? > > > > *Van:* Mgs *Namens *Paul Root > *Verzonden:* vrijdag 2 april 2021 18:26 > *Aan:* Dan DiBiase > *CC:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB > > *Onderwerp:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept > > > > The world has gone SUV. This is eye-candy to get people to think MG, but > it will never come out. > > > > I don't really like the angles, you can't really see what it would look > like. > > > > They have had a number of concepts over the last few years that all > "harken back" or "reminisce" about past cars. But they never go forward. > All the companies do that. Nissan really got me 5 years ago when they did a > retro 510 thing. I was ready to buy that. But after saying they really want > to think about building it, they just dropped it. > > > > There is also the part about MG won't come back to the US. > > > > On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 10:33 AM Dan DiBiase wrote: > > Interesting concept car. > > > > > https://electrek.co/2021/04/01/mg-motor-unveils-cyberster-electric-sports-car-concept/ > > > > Dan D > > '76B, '65B Project (soon up for sale) > > Central NJ USA > > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BksTrpcHsq61tmMoo0C-PS1WUG7pfAgwZh0Aa_aTDtYug%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > > > Virusvrij. > www.avast.com > > <#m_8263422997188637202_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan.dibiase at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 09:28:31 2021 From: dan.dibiase at gmail.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:28:31 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> Message-ID: My brother in law has the current gen, and it's a little tough to get out of. Once it in fits nicely but it's very low. Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. Dan D '21 Tesla MY, '76B, '65B Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 8:54 AM Paul Root wrote: > Sure, however the only one I really fit in is the first gen. My boss did > have a 2nd gen that he added a turbo to ,and let me drive it once. If I > owned it, I probably wouldn't have a license anymore. I could only drive > that with the top down. > > Same thing with the 370Z. I can't even get in the coupe. > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 7:41 AM wrote: > >> If you really want the look and feel of an MG roadster in a modern setup, >> I?d opt for the Mazda MX5 ? Miata. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Hans >> >> 71 BGT still hibernating, as the snow falls? >> >> >> >> *Van:* Mgs *Namens *Paul Root >> *Verzonden:* vrijdag 2 april 2021 18:26 >> *Aan:* Dan DiBiase >> *CC:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >> MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com> >> *Onderwerp:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept >> >> >> >> The world has gone SUV. This is eye-candy to get people to think MG, but >> it will never come out. >> >> >> >> I don't really like the angles, you can't really see what it would look >> like. >> >> >> >> They have had a number of concepts over the last few years that all >> "harken back" or "reminisce" about past cars. But they never go forward. >> All the companies do that. Nissan really got me 5 years ago when they did a >> retro 510 thing. I was ready to buy that. But after saying they really want >> to think about building it, they just dropped it. >> >> >> >> There is also the part about MG won't come back to the US. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 10:33 AM Dan DiBiase >> wrote: >> >> Interesting concept car. >> >> >> >> >> https://electrek.co/2021/04/01/mg-motor-unveils-cyberster-electric-sports-car-concept/ >> >> >> >> Dan D >> >> '76B, '65B Project (soon up for sale) >> >> Central NJ USA >> >> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BksTrpcHsq61tmMoo0C-PS1WUG7pfAgwZh0Aa_aTDtYug%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> >> >> >> Virusvrij. >> www.avast.com >> >> <#m_5439378907667388181_m_8263422997188637202_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan.dibiase at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 11:46:54 2021 From: dan.dibiase at gmail.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:46:54 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> Message-ID: Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). Dan D Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner wrote: > This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla > wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little > sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I > never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked > together. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on > behalf of PaulBHunt73 > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM > *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB > > *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept > > Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the > current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys > for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and > driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall > revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based > on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything > with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another > internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ptroot at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 13:44:59 2021 From: ptroot at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:44:59 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> <1017745665.27927.1617737198452@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Most Prius yes. The Prius C is electric only, if I recall correctly. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:36 PM James Dillner wrote: > Prius is a hybrid....has a gas motor. The Tesla models are just battery > powered, correct? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:26 PM > *To:* Paul Noble > *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB > > *Subject:* Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG > Sports Car Concept > > Friends with Priusii (plural?) report much better battery life than > expected. > > Reason is that Prius batteries operate in a sweet spot of between 20% and > 80% of full charge. > > And a person I know with a Tesla told me that normal charging is only to > 85% unless you request a full charge for the same reason of not 'pushing' > the limits. Can somebody with a Tesla either confirm or refute this? > > I just fear that in travel mode constant rapid charging cannot be good. > > And while I know from long experience that laptop batteries have a limited > number of cycles my Norelco shaver is now 15 years old, gets a charge once > month and seem sot have as much life as when new. > > And as I did not mention the Tesla S weighs about a ton more than the > Mazda6. > > For me, not yet practical. > > > > Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com > resch at reschonline.com > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 02:19:12 PM CDT, Paul Noble < > noblepa at hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. > > Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, > both in mining it and disposing of it. > > The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest > and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will > take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. > > The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot > heavier. > > I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're > lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about > $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the > seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius > (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car > without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the > cost of replacing the batteries or engine. > > Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of > hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully > electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop > every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the > charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current > flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. > > I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to > cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through > the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for > this now, but this remains a problem. > > Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. > No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations > until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are > reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. > That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now > being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. > ------------------------------ > *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM > *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < > dan.dibiase at gmail.com> > *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; > MG-MGA-MGB > *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports > Car Concept > > I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I > am missing something. > > When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out > same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. > > Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire usage > and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. > Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per > tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. > > In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from > Tesla) would run $8,800. > > In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil > changes the total is about $8,500. > > But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. > > Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars > ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. > What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. > > And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would > be nearly impossible. > > I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging > non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging > hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a > day could get old. > > I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. > > Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much > like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh > battery. Changed from below. > > Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might have > more. > > Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would > report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a > battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out > of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery > had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just > swap the half used battery. > > I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to > be built in order as the robots don't care. > > The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is tough > to see until many years from now. > > So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for > trips, but the current model works for me. > > A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries > > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries > > We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer > can outrun its predecessor. > > > > > > > > > Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com > resch at reschonline.com > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < > dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 > modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner > wrote: > > This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla > wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little > sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I > never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked > together. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on > behalf of PaulBHunt73 > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM > *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB > > *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept > > Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the > current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys > for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and > driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall > revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based > on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything > with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another > internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/1017745665.27927.1617737198452%40mail.yahoo.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB3152CAE8E168D28E088BE98A9D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ptroot at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 13:51:03 2021 From: ptroot at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:51:03 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: <1017745665.27927.1617737198452@mail.yahoo.com> References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> <1017745665.27927.1617737198452@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree, not yet practical. I'm interested in them from purely an economic proposition. A job change last summer means my former 5 mile commute becomes 30 when work from home ends. I have some interest in a Mach-E (no other name associated with that :-) ) or an ID-4. But both are only RWD currently, and I'm not doing that here in Minnesota. Then again, both will still be over $30k after government rebates, and I'm not ready to pay that much for a consumable. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:26 PM 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB < mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com> wrote: > Friends with Priusii (plural?) report much better battery life than > expected. > > Reason is that Prius batteries operate in a sweet spot of between 20% and > 80% of full charge. > > And a person I know with a Tesla told me that normal charging is only to > 85% unless you request a full charge for the same reason of not 'pushing' > the limits. Can somebody with a Tesla either confirm or refute this? > > I just fear that in travel mode constant rapid charging cannot be good. > > And while I know from long experience that laptop batteries have a limited > number of cycles my Norelco shaver is now 15 years old, gets a charge once > month and seem sot have as much life as when new. > > And as I did not mention the Tesla S weighs about a ton more than the > Mazda6. > > For me, not yet practical. > > > > Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com > resch at reschonline.com > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 02:19:12 PM CDT, Paul Noble < > noblepa at hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. > > Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, > both in mining it and disposing of it. > > The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest > and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will > take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. > > The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot > heavier. > > I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're > lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about > $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the > seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius > (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car > without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the > cost of replacing the batteries or engine. > > Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of > hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully > electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop > every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the > charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current > flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. > > I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to > cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through > the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for > this now, but this remains a problem. > > Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. > No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations > until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are > reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. > That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now > being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. > ------------------------------ > *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM > *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < > dan.dibiase at gmail.com> > *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; > MG-MGA-MGB > *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports > Car Concept > > I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I > am missing something. > > When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out > same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. > > Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire usage > and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. > Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per > tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. > > In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from > Tesla) would run $8,800. > > In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil > changes the total is about $8,500. > > But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. > > Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars > ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. > What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. > > And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would > be nearly impossible. > > I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging > non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging > hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a > day could get old. > > I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. > > Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much > like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh > battery. Changed from below. > > Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might have > more. > > Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would > report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a > battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out > of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery > had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just > swap the half used battery. > > I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to > be built in order as the robots don't care. > > The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is tough > to see until many years from now. > > So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for > trips, but the current model works for me. > > A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries > > > 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries > > We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer > can outrun its predecessor. > > > > > > > > > Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com > resch at reschonline.com > > > On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < > dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 > modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner > wrote: > > This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla > wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little > sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I > never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked > together. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on > behalf of PaulBHunt73 > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM > *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB > > *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept > > Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the > current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys > for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and > driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall > revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based > on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything > with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another > internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/1017745665.27927.1617737198452%40mail.yahoo.com > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan.dibiase at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 15:12:28 2021 From: dan.dibiase at gmail.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:12:28 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A lot to unpack with all of these messages.....! I am probably the only one here that has an electric vehicle, so guess I should chime in. If you like, you can check out my blog at https://electricallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2021/04/tesla-model-y-one-month-report.html I have the Tesla Model Y, which is the latest model, being a CUV version of the Model 3 sedan (about 75% interchangeability). The version I have is the AWD Long Range. The only options I got was the color (Deep Metallic Blue) and a tow hitch (mainly for a bike rack). It was $53k out the door (no sales tax in NJ for BEV's). If I had taken delivery in December of 2020, I could have gotten a $5k rebate from the state. If I waited until after 7/1/21, there is a chance I could have gotten a $5k point-of-sale discount from the state of NJ (funding still TBD). And there is talk of renewing the $7500 Federal Tax Credit for all made-in-US BEV's, which would include Tesla and Chevy (both of whom have sold over 200k electric vehicles so they currently don't qualify). I took delivery one month ago, because I wanted the car and was tired of waiting for 'maybes' and 'what ifs'. Saving the 6.625% sales tax was good enough for me. The battery warranty on my car is 8 years/120k miles. The EPA rated range is 326 miles; real world is more like 280 - 290 depending on conditions (speed, temperature, elevation changes, etc). The entire battery is unlikely to go bad at once. Individual modules can be replaced (there are about 15 in my car). Elon Musk has estimated the cost at about $5k to replace a module - that is today's cost. Battery replacement in it's entirety is around $15k currently. The Tesla replaced my 2014 Mazda CX-5 CUV, which had 147k miles on it. It still ran well but was getting to the point where stuff was going to start going wrong and I have to be able to depend on my car. An electric car fits my needs perfectly. I'm a realtor so generally drive locally only, have no daily commute and need a large enough space for signs and misc crap. I've liked Teslas since the Roadster came out in 2008 and have owned the stock for a number of years. You can read my first blog post to see in detail why I wanted an electric car - I do think we need to do a better job reducing greenhouse gases individually and our energy system is going to become more renewables-based as the years go by. Being a 'car guy', electric power is the next wave of technology and is here to stay - the Tesla is essentially a computer that also happens to be a very capable car. And the acceleration is insane for a 4500 lb vehicle. My model does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. The Performance version of the MY is 4.2 secs. The new Model S Plaid will be under 2 seconds with 400+ miles of range.... Pretty stellar numbers. for a sedan that can hold 5 people..... I have a 240v charger in my garage that cost $800 to install (mostly because the electrician had to run the wire 45 ft from my panel to the garage). It adds about 25 miles of range for every hour. I charge overnight with off-peak rates (about half of peak rates). I've only had the car a month so haven't gotten a bill yet to see how much it is actually costing me. Travelling shouldn't be too difficult as Tesla has a Supercharger network of charger that cover about 90% of the US - about every 120 miles or so on the OInterstates, of plenty of locations off them as well. There is one 10 minutes from my house. I charge to a max of 80% every night. Tesla advises keeping the charge levels between 20% - 80% to prolong battery life. When I do take a road trip, I will charge to 100% right before I leave. Plenty of folks charge to 100% frequently and haven't experienced much battery degradation over time. Most reports indicate that charging in general is less expensive than buying gas. Maintenance - obviously, no oil changes. You also get much longer life out of brakes as you rarely use them (regenerative braking from the electric motors, which put energy back into the battery). No exhaust system. No fuel pump. No ignition system. Etc. Tires, you might have to replace more often - these are heavy vehicles. There are maintenance items that need to be checked but they are the normal things - A/C service, cabin air filters, brakes (rarely though). The battery is liquid cooled but there isn't any maintenance schedule that I could find. Oh, and you have to put windshield washer fluid in it... I covered a lot and this is probably too long a read - sorry. But just wanted to lay out a few basics here, based on my personal experience to date.. The Tesla community is a large one - they have over a million vehicles on the road now - and growing larger every day. And every new EV that is announced is a good thing. Tesla isn't going away. Most of the new EV's that are coming out aren't targeted at Tesla but ICE vehicles. That's where the real benefit will come from. Dan D Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Paul Root wrote: > The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of the US, 10 year > 150K for California. > > The closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric, > or the VW Golf E-something. > > I think Telsa cost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is > really a software company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they > will make it as more car companies start building more electric cars. > Reports I've seen, is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is > not great. > > I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my > life, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine. > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble wrote: > >> When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was a >> few years ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have >> improved. >> >> That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation. >> >> It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasoline >> and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline >> engine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the >> opposite direction (replacing a gas engine with electric), these were not >> production vehicles. All the ones I've seen have simply replaced the gas >> engine with an electric motor, while retaining the transmission, clutch and >> differential. This is not optimal. >> >> The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Honda Civic >> and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got around 40 >> mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k more than >> the gas version, the payback period was many years. >> >> Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in >> part, because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. >> Compared to GM, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production >> vehicle. Secondly, it costs a LOT of money to start a car company from the >> ground up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that >> Elon Musk made a conscious decision to position the Tesla in an upscale >> market for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance, >> but the primary attraction. >> >> As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and >> more vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices >> will come down. >> >> I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Gas >> vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become. >> Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical >> improvements that must be made, but all that will happen. One area that I >> suspect gas vehicles can never compete with electric vehicles is emissions. >> Gas cars will never reach zero emissions. EVs are already there. >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Paul Root >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM >> *To:* Paul Noble >> *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >> mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com> >> *Subject:* Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG >> Sports Car Concept >> >> Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's >> done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done >> youtube videos for them. Worth a look. >> >> I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a >> google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble wrote: >> >> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. >> >> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, >> both in mining it and disposing of it. >> >> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest >> and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will >> take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. >> >> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot >> heavier. >> >> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're >> lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about >> $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the >> seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius >> (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car >> without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the >> cost of replacing the batteries or engine. >> >> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of >> hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully >> electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop >> every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the >> charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current >> flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. >> >> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to >> cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through >> the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for >> this now, but this remains a problem. >> >> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. >> No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations >> until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are >> reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. >> That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now >> being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM >> *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < >> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> >> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; >> MG-MGA-MGB >> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports >> Car Concept >> >> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I >> am missing something. >> >> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out >> same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. >> >> Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire >> usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. >> Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per >> tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. >> >> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from >> Tesla) would run $8,800. >> >> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil >> changes the total is about $8,500. >> >> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. >> >> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars >> ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. >> What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. >> >> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would >> be nearly impossible. >> >> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging >> non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging >> hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a >> day could get old. >> >> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. >> >> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much >> like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh >> battery. Changed from below. >> >> Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might >> have more. >> >> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would >> report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a >> battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out >> of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery >> had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just >> swap the half used battery. >> >> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to >> be built in order as the robots don't care. >> >> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is >> tough to see until many years from now. >> >> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for >> trips, but the current model works for me. >> >> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: >> >> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >> >> >> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >> >> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer >> can outrun its predecessor. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com >> resch at reschonline.com >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < >> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 >> modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). >> >> Dan D >> Central NJ USA >> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner >> wrote: >> >> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla >> wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little >> sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I >> never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked >> together. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on >> behalf of PaulBHunt73 >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM >> *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >> MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept >> >> Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the >> current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys >> for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and >> driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall >> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based >> on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything >> with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another >> internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB173898DE95989A996B4CD855B4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CAPxc_gGOPiibRiusLheh5AdHyCOq8Z6VhQkbsuUSjC%2BKyu9Dgw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ptroot at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 16:34:09 2021 From: ptroot at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:34:09 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Interesting stuff, thanks Dan. I didn't know prices, but thought the Model X was more. One of the things in Minnesota, actually, Xcel Energy, is that if you get a 240v charger put in, they put it on a separate meter, and you get big discounts, for charging off peak (maybe after midnight, I don't remember details). I did see somewhere that Tesla is working on a heat pump instead of just using electricity to heat the cabin. That's something needed around here. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:13 PM Dan DiBiase wrote: > A lot to unpack with all of these messages.....! > > I am probably the only one here that has an electric vehicle, so guess I > should chime in. If you like, you can check out my blog at > https://electricallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2021/04/tesla-model-y-one-month-report.html > > I have the Tesla Model Y, which is the latest model, being a CUV version > of the Model 3 sedan (about 75% interchangeability). The version I have is > the AWD Long Range. The only options I got was the color (Deep Metallic > Blue) and a tow hitch (mainly for a bike rack). It was $53k out the door > (no sales tax in NJ for BEV's). If I had taken delivery in December of > 2020, I could have gotten a $5k rebate from the state. If I waited until > after 7/1/21, there is a chance I could have gotten a $5k point-of-sale > discount from the state of NJ (funding still TBD). And there is talk of > renewing the $7500 Federal Tax Credit for all made-in-US BEV's, which would > include Tesla and Chevy (both of whom have sold over 200k electric vehicles > so they currently don't qualify). I took delivery one month ago, because I > wanted the car and was tired of waiting for 'maybes' and 'what ifs'. Saving > the 6.625% sales tax was good enough for me. > > The battery warranty on my car is 8 years/120k miles. The EPA rated range > is 326 miles; real world is more like 280 - 290 depending on conditions > (speed, temperature, elevation changes, etc). The entire battery is > unlikely to go bad at once. Individual modules can be replaced (there are > about 15 in my car). Elon Musk has estimated the cost at about $5k to > replace a module - that is today's cost. Battery replacement in it's > entirety is around $15k currently. > > The Tesla replaced my 2014 Mazda CX-5 CUV, which had 147k miles on it. It > still ran well but was getting to the point where stuff was going to start > going wrong and I have to be able to depend on my car. An electric car fits > my needs perfectly. I'm a realtor so generally drive locally only, have no > daily commute and need a large enough space for signs and misc crap. I've > liked Teslas since the Roadster came out in 2008 and have owned the stock > for a number of years. > > You can read my first blog post to see in detail why I wanted an electric > car - I do think we need to do a better job reducing greenhouse gases > individually and our energy system is going to become more renewables-based > as the years go by. Being a 'car guy', electric power is the next wave of > technology and is here to stay - the Tesla is essentially a computer that > also happens to be a very capable car. And the acceleration is insane for a > 4500 lb vehicle. My model does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. The Performance version > of the MY is 4.2 secs. The new Model S Plaid will be under 2 seconds with > 400+ miles of range.... Pretty stellar numbers. for a sedan that can hold 5 > people..... > > I have a 240v charger in my garage that cost $800 to install (mostly > because the electrician had to run the wire 45 ft from my panel to the > garage). It adds about 25 miles of range for every hour. I charge overnight > with off-peak rates (about half of peak rates). I've only had the car a > month so haven't gotten a bill yet to see how much it is actually costing > me. Travelling shouldn't be too difficult as Tesla has a Supercharger > network of charger that cover about 90% of the US - about every 120 miles > or so on the OInterstates, of plenty of locations off them as well. There > is one 10 minutes from my house. I charge to a max of 80% every night. > Tesla advises keeping the charge levels between 20% - 80% to prolong > battery life. When I do take a road trip, I will charge to 100% right > before I leave. Plenty of folks charge to 100% frequently and haven't > experienced much battery degradation over time. Most reports indicate that > charging in general is less expensive than buying gas. > > Maintenance - obviously, no oil changes. You also get much longer life out > of brakes as you rarely use them (regenerative braking from the electric > motors, which put energy back into the battery). No exhaust system. No fuel > pump. No ignition system. Etc. Tires, you might have to replace more often > - these are heavy vehicles. There are maintenance items that need to be > checked but they are the normal things - A/C service, cabin air filters, > brakes (rarely though). The battery is liquid cooled but there isn't any > maintenance schedule that I could find. Oh, and you have to put windshield > washer fluid in it... > > I covered a lot and this is probably too long a read - sorry. But just > wanted to lay out a few basics here, based on my personal experience to > date.. The Tesla community is a large one - they have over a million > vehicles on the road now - and growing larger every day. And every new EV > that is announced is a good thing. Tesla isn't going away. Most of the new > EV's that are coming out aren't targeted at Tesla but ICE vehicles. That's > where the real benefit will come from. > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Paul Root wrote: > >> The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of the US, 10 year >> 150K for California. >> >> The closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric, >> or the VW Golf E-something. >> >> I think Telsa cost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is >> really a software company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they >> will make it as more car companies start building more electric cars. >> Reports I've seen, is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is >> not great. >> >> I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my >> life, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine. >> >> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble wrote: >> >>> When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was a >>> few years ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have >>> improved. >>> >>> That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation. >>> >>> It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasoline >>> and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline >>> engine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the >>> opposite direction (replacing a gas engine with electric), these were not >>> production vehicles. All the ones I've seen have simply replaced the gas >>> engine with an electric motor, while retaining the transmission, clutch and >>> differential. This is not optimal. >>> >>> The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Honda Civic >>> and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got around 40 >>> mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k more than >>> the gas version, the payback period was many years. >>> >>> Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in >>> part, because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. >>> Compared to GM, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production >>> vehicle. Secondly, it costs a LOT of money to start a car company from the >>> ground up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that >>> Elon Musk made a conscious decision to position the Tesla in an upscale >>> market for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance, >>> but the primary attraction. >>> >>> As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and >>> more vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices >>> will come down. >>> >>> I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Gas >>> vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become. >>> Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical >>> improvements that must be made, but all that will happen. One area that I >>> suspect gas vehicles can never compete with electric vehicles is emissions. >>> Gas cars will never reach zero emissions. EVs are already there. >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Paul Root >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM >>> *To:* Paul Noble >>> *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >>> mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG >>> Sports Car Concept >>> >>> Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's >>> done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done >>> youtube videos for them. Worth a look. >>> >>> I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on >>> a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble wrote: >>> >>> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. >>> >>> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally >>> problematic, both in mining it and disposing of it. >>> >>> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest >>> and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will >>> take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. >>> >>> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot >>> heavier. >>> >>> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're >>> lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about >>> $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the >>> seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius >>> (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car >>> without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the >>> cost of replacing the batteries or engine. >>> >>> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of >>> hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully >>> electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop >>> every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the >>> charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current >>> flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. >>> >>> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to >>> cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through >>> the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for >>> this now, but this remains a problem. >>> >>> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. >>> No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations >>> until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are >>> reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. >>> That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now >>> being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM >>> *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < >>> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> >>> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; >>> MG-MGA-MGB >>> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG >>> Sports Car Concept >>> >>> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I >>> am missing something. >>> >>> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out >>> same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. >>> >>> Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire >>> usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. >>> Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per >>> tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. >>> >>> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from >>> Tesla) would run $8,800. >>> >>> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil >>> changes the total is about $8,500. >>> >>> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. >>> >>> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars >>> ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. >>> What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. >>> >>> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles >>> would be nearly impossible. >>> >>> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging >>> non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging >>> hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a >>> day could get old. >>> >>> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. >>> >>> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much >>> like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh >>> battery. Changed from below. >>> >>> Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might >>> have more. >>> >>> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would >>> report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a >>> battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out >>> of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery >>> had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just >>> swap the half used battery. >>> >>> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model >>> to be built in order as the robots don't care. >>> >>> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is >>> tough to see until many years from now. >>> >>> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for >>> trips, but the current model works for me. >>> >>> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: >>> >>> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >>> >>> >>> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >>> >>> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer >>> can outrun its predecessor. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com >>> resch at reschonline.com >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < >>> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 >>> modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). >>> >>> Dan D >>> Central NJ USA >>> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner >>> wrote: >>> >>> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla >>> wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little >>> sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I >>> never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked >>> together. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on >>> behalf of PaulBHunt73 >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM >>> *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >>> MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept >>> >>> Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the >>> current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys >>> for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and >>> driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall >>> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. >>> >>> PaulH. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) >>> Based on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider >>> anything with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to >>> buy another internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul >>> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com >>> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com >>> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com >>> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB173898DE95989A996B4CD855B4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com >>> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CAPxc_gGOPiibRiusLheh5AdHyCOq8Z6VhQkbsuUSjC%2BKyu9Dgw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan.dibiase at gmail.com Tue Apr 6 18:16:20 2021 From: dan.dibiase at gmail.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 20:16:20 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Paul, yes the Model X is more - it's the larger C/SUV, based on the Model S sedan. I never thought to ask about a separate meter. I will have to do that. It's going to be hard to figure out, with season variances, estimated readings, etc. But since I started charging off peak, I thought maybe a breakdown of electricity use by time of day (night) might help me do that. The Model Y was the first with the heat pump. They have since retrofitted it in new Model 3's, and also the new (refreshed) Model S/X. It should significantly reduce battery loss due to heat usage. Dan D Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 6:34 PM Paul Root wrote: > Interesting stuff, thanks Dan. I didn't know prices, but thought the Model > X was more. > > One of the things in Minnesota, actually, Xcel Energy, is that if you get > a 240v charger put in, they put it on a separate meter, and you get big > discounts, for charging off peak (maybe after midnight, I don't remember > details). > > I did see somewhere that Tesla is working on a heat pump instead of just > using electricity to heat the cabin. That's something needed around here. > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:13 PM Dan DiBiase wrote: > >> A lot to unpack with all of these messages.....! >> >> I am probably the only one here that has an electric vehicle, so guess I >> should chime in. If you like, you can check out my blog at >> https://electricallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2021/04/tesla-model-y-one-month-report.html >> >> I have the Tesla Model Y, which is the latest model, being a CUV version >> of the Model 3 sedan (about 75% interchangeability). The version I have is >> the AWD Long Range. The only options I got was the color (Deep Metallic >> Blue) and a tow hitch (mainly for a bike rack). It was $53k out the door >> (no sales tax in NJ for BEV's). If I had taken delivery in December of >> 2020, I could have gotten a $5k rebate from the state. If I waited until >> after 7/1/21, there is a chance I could have gotten a $5k point-of-sale >> discount from the state of NJ (funding still TBD). And there is talk of >> renewing the $7500 Federal Tax Credit for all made-in-US BEV's, which would >> include Tesla and Chevy (both of whom have sold over 200k electric vehicles >> so they currently don't qualify). I took delivery one month ago, because I >> wanted the car and was tired of waiting for 'maybes' and 'what ifs'. Saving >> the 6.625% sales tax was good enough for me. >> >> The battery warranty on my car is 8 years/120k miles. The EPA rated range >> is 326 miles; real world is more like 280 - 290 depending on conditions >> (speed, temperature, elevation changes, etc). The entire battery is >> unlikely to go bad at once. Individual modules can be replaced (there are >> about 15 in my car). Elon Musk has estimated the cost at about $5k to >> replace a module - that is today's cost. Battery replacement in it's >> entirety is around $15k currently. >> >> The Tesla replaced my 2014 Mazda CX-5 CUV, which had 147k miles on it. It >> still ran well but was getting to the point where stuff was going to start >> going wrong and I have to be able to depend on my car. An electric car fits >> my needs perfectly. I'm a realtor so generally drive locally only, have no >> daily commute and need a large enough space for signs and misc crap. I've >> liked Teslas since the Roadster came out in 2008 and have owned the stock >> for a number of years. >> >> You can read my first blog post to see in detail why I wanted an electric >> car - I do think we need to do a better job reducing greenhouse gases >> individually and our energy system is going to become more renewables-based >> as the years go by. Being a 'car guy', electric power is the next wave of >> technology and is here to stay - the Tesla is essentially a computer that >> also happens to be a very capable car. And the acceleration is insane for a >> 4500 lb vehicle. My model does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. The Performance version >> of the MY is 4.2 secs. The new Model S Plaid will be under 2 seconds with >> 400+ miles of range.... Pretty stellar numbers. for a sedan that can hold 5 >> people..... >> >> I have a 240v charger in my garage that cost $800 to install (mostly >> because the electrician had to run the wire 45 ft from my panel to the >> garage). It adds about 25 miles of range for every hour. I charge overnight >> with off-peak rates (about half of peak rates). I've only had the car a >> month so haven't gotten a bill yet to see how much it is actually costing >> me. Travelling shouldn't be too difficult as Tesla has a Supercharger >> network of charger that cover about 90% of the US - about every 120 miles >> or so on the OInterstates, of plenty of locations off them as well. There >> is one 10 minutes from my house. I charge to a max of 80% every night. >> Tesla advises keeping the charge levels between 20% - 80% to prolong >> battery life. When I do take a road trip, I will charge to 100% right >> before I leave. Plenty of folks charge to 100% frequently and haven't >> experienced much battery degradation over time. Most reports indicate that >> charging in general is less expensive than buying gas. >> >> Maintenance - obviously, no oil changes. You also get much longer life >> out of brakes as you rarely use them (regenerative braking from the >> electric motors, which put energy back into the battery). No exhaust >> system. No fuel pump. No ignition system. Etc. Tires, you might have to >> replace more often - these are heavy vehicles. There are maintenance items >> that need to be checked but they are the normal things - A/C service, cabin >> air filters, brakes (rarely though). The battery is liquid cooled but there >> isn't any maintenance schedule that I could find. Oh, and you have to put >> windshield washer fluid in it... >> >> I covered a lot and this is probably too long a read - sorry. But just >> wanted to lay out a few basics here, based on my personal experience to >> date.. The Tesla community is a large one - they have over a million >> vehicles on the road now - and growing larger every day. And every new EV >> that is announced is a good thing. Tesla isn't going away. Most of the new >> EV's that are coming out aren't targeted at Tesla but ICE vehicles. That's >> where the real benefit will come from. >> >> Dan D >> Central NJ USA >> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Paul Root wrote: >> >>> The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of the US, 10 >>> year 150K for California. >>> >>> The closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus >>> electric, or the VW Golf E-something. >>> >>> I think Telsa cost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is >>> really a software company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they >>> will make it as more car companies start building more electric cars. >>> Reports I've seen, is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is >>> not great. >>> >>> I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my >>> life, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine. >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble wrote: >>> >>>> When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was >>>> a few years ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have >>>> improved. >>>> >>>> That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation. >>>> >>>> It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a >>>> gasoline and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a >>>> gasoline engine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in >>>> the opposite direction (replacing a gas engine with electric), these were >>>> not production vehicles. All the ones I've seen have simply replaced the >>>> gas engine with an electric motor, while retaining the transmission, clutch >>>> and differential. This is not optimal. >>>> >>>> The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Honda >>>> Civic and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got >>>> around 40 mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k >>>> more than the gas version, the payback period was many years. >>>> >>>> Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in >>>> part, because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. >>>> Compared to GM, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production >>>> vehicle. Secondly, it costs a LOT of money to start a car company from the >>>> ground up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that >>>> Elon Musk made a conscious decision to position the Tesla in an upscale >>>> market for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance, >>>> but the primary attraction. >>>> >>>> As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and >>>> more vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices >>>> will come down. >>>> >>>> I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. >>>> Gas vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have >>>> become. Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and >>>> technical improvements that must be made, but all that will happen. One >>>> area that I suspect gas vehicles can never compete with electric vehicles >>>> is emissions. Gas cars will never reach zero emissions. EVs are already >>>> there. >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Paul Root >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM >>>> *To:* Paul Noble >>>> *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >>>> mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com> >>>> *Subject:* Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG >>>> Sports Car Concept >>>> >>>> Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's >>>> done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done >>>> youtube videos for them. Worth a look. >>>> >>>> I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on >>>> a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble wrote: >>>> >>>> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. >>>> >>>> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally >>>> problematic, both in mining it and disposing of it. >>>> >>>> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, >>>> safest and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of >>>> gasoline will take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. >>>> >>>> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot >>>> heavier. >>>> >>>> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that >>>> you're lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them >>>> costs about $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, >>>> unless the seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. >>>> A Prius (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional >>>> car without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in >>>> the cost of replacing the batteries or engine. >>>> >>>> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of >>>> hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully >>>> electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop >>>> every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the >>>> charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current >>>> flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. >>>> >>>> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to >>>> cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through >>>> the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for >>>> this now, but this remains a problem. >>>> >>>> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging >>>> stations. No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging >>>> stations until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers >>>> are reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging >>>> stations. That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure >>>> bill now being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging >>>> stations. >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM >>>> *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < >>>> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> >>>> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; >>>> MG-MGA-MGB >>>> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG >>>> Sports Car Concept >>>> >>>> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel >>>> I am missing something. >>>> >>>> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out >>>> same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. >>>> >>>> Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire >>>> usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. >>>> Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per >>>> tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. >>>> >>>> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from >>>> Tesla) would run $8,800. >>>> >>>> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil >>>> changes the total is about $8,500. >>>> >>>> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. >>>> >>>> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars >>>> ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. >>>> What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. >>>> >>>> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles >>>> would be nearly impossible. >>>> >>>> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging >>>> non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging >>>> hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a >>>> day could get old. >>>> >>>> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. >>>> >>>> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system >>>> much like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh >>>> battery. Changed from below. >>>> >>>> Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might >>>> have more. >>>> >>>> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs >>>> would report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would >>>> have a battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last >>>> drop out of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what >>>> your battery had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest >>>> break, just swap the half used battery. >>>> >>>> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model >>>> to be built in order as the robots don't care. >>>> >>>> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is >>>> tough to see until many years from now. >>>> >>>> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for >>>> trips, but the current model works for me. >>>> >>>> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: >>>> >>>> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >>>> >>>> >>>> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >>>> >>>> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer >>>> can outrun its predecessor. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses >>>> pcresch at yahoo.com resch at reschonline.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < >>>> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 >>>> modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). >>>> >>>> Dan D >>>> Central NJ USA >>>> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla >>>> wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little >>>> sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I >>>> never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked >>>> together. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on >>>> behalf of PaulBHunt73 >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM >>>> *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >>>> MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept >>>> >>>> Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the >>>> current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys >>>> for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and >>>> driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall >>>> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. >>>> >>>> PaulH. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) >>>> Based on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider >>>> anything with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to >>>> buy another internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB173898DE95989A996B4CD855B4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CAPxc_gGOPiibRiusLheh5AdHyCOq8Z6VhQkbsuUSjC%2BKyu9Dgw%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> . >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eyera3000 at gmail.com Wed Apr 7 07:28:35 2021 From: eyera3000 at gmail.com (i erbs) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:28:35 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My 2010 ford escape hybrid is nearing 100k miles and rebuilt battery packs are not that expensive. My next car will be a plug in hybred, most likely a Volt. 50 mile on battery, up to 235 on gas. 45-65 mph Ira Erbs 1959 AH 100-6 1967 MGB Milwaukie, OR On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 12:39 PM Paul Root wrote: > Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's > done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done > youtube videos for them. Worth a look. > > I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a > google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. > > > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble wrote: > >> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. >> >> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, >> both in mining it and disposing of it. >> >> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest >> and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will >> take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. >> >> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot >> heavier. >> >> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're >> lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about >> $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the >> seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius >> (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car >> without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the >> cost of replacing the batteries or engine. >> >> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of >> hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully >> electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop >> every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the >> charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current >> flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. >> >> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to >> cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through >> the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for >> this now, but this remains a problem. >> >> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. >> No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations >> until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are >> reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. >> That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now >> being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM >> *To:* James Dillner ; Dan DiBiase < >> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> >> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 ; mglist ; >> MG-MGA-MGB >> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports >> Car Concept >> >> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I >> am missing something. >> >> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out >> same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. >> >> Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire >> usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. >> Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per >> tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. >> >> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from >> Tesla) would run $8,800. >> >> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil >> changes the total is about $8,500. >> >> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. >> >> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars >> ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. >> What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. >> >> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would >> be nearly impossible. >> >> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging >> non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging >> hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a >> day could get old. >> >> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. >> >> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much >> like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh >> battery. Changed from below. >> >> Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might >> have more. >> >> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would >> report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a >> battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out >> of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery >> had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just >> swap the half used battery. >> >> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to >> be built in order as the robots don't care. >> >> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is >> tough to see until many years from now. >> >> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for >> trips, but the current model works for me. >> >> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: >> >> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >> >> >> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries >> >> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer >> can outrun its predecessor. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com >> resch at reschonline.com >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase < >> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 >> modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). >> >> Dan D >> Central NJ USA >> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner >> wrote: >> >> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla >> wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little >> sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I >> never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked >> together. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com on >> behalf of PaulBHunt73 >> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM >> *Cc:* mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB < >> MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept >> >> Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the >> current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys >> for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and >> driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall >> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. >> >> PaulH. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based >> on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything >> with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another >> internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com >> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MG-MGA-MGB" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eyera3000 at gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Thu Apr 8 11:49:05 2021 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 19:49:05 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> Message-ID: <001f01d72c9f$781a4a10$684ede30$@planet.nl> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) >>> Compared with an MGB designed in 1962, the Mazda is. Sure electric cars are the future, but this group of friends still has MG as main topic ?! The classic MG cannot be compared with a Tesla. Same would be for an MGB in 1962 being compared with a car from 50 years earlier. BTW I have bought my previous lease car = Mazda 6 Sportbreak (wagon). I love how Mazda does things differently. So if there comes a reason to sell my MG, I might opt for MX5 / Miata? Cheers Hans 71 BGT ? celebrated its 50th birthday 2 months ago? Van: Dan DiBiase Verzonden: dinsdag 6 april 2021 17:29 Aan: Paul Root CC: Hans Duinhoven ; mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept My brother in law has the current gen, and it's a little tough to get out of. Once it in fits nicely but it's very low. Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. Dan D '21 Tesla MY, '76B, '65B Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 8:54 AM Paul Root > wrote: Sure, however the only one I really fit in is the first gen. My boss did have a 2nd gen that he added a turbo to ,and let me drive it once. If I owned it, I probably wouldn't have a license anymore. I could only drive that with the top down. Same thing with the 370Z. I can't even get in the coupe. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 7:41 AM > wrote: If you really want the look and feel of an MG roadster in a modern setup, I?d opt for the Mazda MX5 ? Miata. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT still hibernating, as the snow falls? Van: Mgs > Namens Paul Root Verzonden: vrijdag 2 april 2021 18:26 Aan: Dan DiBiase > CC: mglist >; MG-MGA-MGB > Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept The world has gone SUV. This is eye-candy to get people to think MG, but it will never come out. I don't really like the angles, you can't really see what it would look like. They have had a number of concepts over the last few years that all "harken back" or "reminisce" about past cars. But they never go forward. All the companies do that. Nissan really got me 5 years ago when they did a retro 510 thing. I was ready to buy that. But after saying they really want to think about building it, they just dropped it. There is also the part about MG won't come back to the US. On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 10:33 AM Dan DiBiase > wrote: Interesting concept car. https://electrek.co/2021/04/01/mg-motor-unveils-cyberster-electric-sports-car-concept/ Dan D '76B, '65B Project (soon up for sale) Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BksTrpcHsq61tmMoo0C-PS1WUG7pfAgwZh0Aa_aTDtYug%40mail.gmail.com . Virusvrij. www.avast.com -- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Thu Apr 8 11:55:06 2021 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 19:55:06 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: References: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> <47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B@paul> <84030283.397.1617734941670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002401d72ca0$4f8d9fb0$eea8df10$@planet.nl> The electric MG?s from China are quite popular in the Netherlands nowadays. Price tag is half a Tesla model 3 price tag. VW launched their electrical variants now in their models ID3 and ID4, where the ID3 is the most popular lease car currently. Van: Mgs Namens Paul Root Verzonden: dinsdag 6 april 2021 22:31 Aan: Paul Noble CC: mglist ; MG-MGA-MGB Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of the US, 10 year 150K for California. The closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric, or the VW Golf E-something. I think Telsa cost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is really a software company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they will make it as more car companies start building more electric cars. Reports I've seen, is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is not great. I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my life, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble > wrote: When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was a few years ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have improved. That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation. It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasoline and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline engine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the opposite direction (replacing a gas engine with electric), these were not production vehicles. All the ones I've seen have simply replaced the gas engine with an electric motor, while retaining the transmission, clutch and differential. This is not optimal. The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Honda Civic and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got around 40 mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k more than the gas version, the payback period was many years. Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in part, because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. Compared to GM, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production vehicle. Secondly, it costs a LOT of money to start a car company from the ground up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that Elon Musk made a conscious decision to position the Tesla in an upscale market for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance, but the primary attraction. As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and more vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices will come down. I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Gas vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become. Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical improvements that must be made, but all that will happen. One area that I suspect gas vehicles can never compete with electric vehicles is emissions. Gas cars will never reach zero emissions. EVs are already there. _____ From: Paul Root > Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM To: Paul Noble > Cc: mglist >; MG-MGA-MGB > Subject: Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done youtube videos for them. Worth a look. I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years. On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble > wrote: I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars. Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic, both in mining it and disposing of it. The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will take a car farther than a fully charged battery will. The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot heavier. I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the cost of replacing the batteries or engine. Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems. I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for this now, but this remains a problem. Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations. That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations. _____ From: 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB > Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM To: James Dillner >; Dan DiBiase > Cc: PaulBHunt73 >; mglist >; MG-MGA-MGB > Subject: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I am missing something. When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar. Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons. Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours. In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from Tesla) would run $8,800. In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil changes the total is about $8,500. But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that. Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in.. What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know. And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would be nearly impossible. I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a day could get old. I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win. Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh battery. Changed from below. Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might have more. Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just swap the half used battery. I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to be built in order as the robots don't care. The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is tough to see until many years from now. So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for trips, but the current model works for me. A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is: 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer can outrun its predecessor. Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com resch at reschonline.com On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase > wrote: Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15 modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery). Dan D Central NJ USA http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/ On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner > wrote: This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked together. _____ From: mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com > on behalf of PaulBHunt73 > Sent: Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM Cc: mglist >; MG-MGA-MGB > Subject: Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another internal combustion vehicle for my daily use. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/47161514E25A498CA43FA7B266A63A0B%40paul . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/MN2PR12MB315240817DEF75E6ECFBB4499D769%40MN2PR12MB3152.namprd12.prod.outlook.com . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/CABxEc%2BnxBjy6ZRBmYz-QevawgKF2vvFwKQqWL_6jSRjBvKiLgQ%40mail.gmail.com . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/84030283.397.1617734941670%40mail.yahoo.com . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB1738ED5DE018012FC9DE30CAB4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MG-MGA-MGB" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/DM5PR2201MB173898DE95989A996B4CD855B4769%40DM5PR2201MB1738.namprd22.prod.outlook.com . -- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com Mon Apr 12 07:39:01 2021 From: mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com (mgs4dave) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 09:39:01 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. In-Reply-To: References: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Mark. Here?s a toast to you and all your efforts over the years! I have filled looseleafs with info not found in manuals for my MGs! Cheers, Dave Houser > On Apr 11, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Robert's New iPad wrote: > > Thank you, Mark. > Many of us have made numerous friends, in-person and by email, via Team.Net . > Before Team.Net I did not know what to do with a dead cat (newer readers will not get this). > Members have talked me through numerous little puzzles of things electrical and in my overdrive. It was through Team.Net that I was introduced to Peter Caldwell, Worldwide Auto; Jeff Schlemmer, Advanced Distributors; Barney Gaylord, MGA Guru, and several others whose help has been indispensable, not to mention encouragement to find even more uses for the Dremel Tool. > Could you publish your mailing address for donations by check? > Bob > > >> On Apr 11, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Mark J Bradakis > wrote: >> >> On this day 30 years ago Team.Net came into being. The British-cars mailing list was already going strong, an offshoot from rec.autos Usenet group. Dale Cook, Jim Muller, then me. Team.net went from 2 lists at the beginning, autox and british-cars, and exploded into nearly 70 different lists with something like 15,000 individuals subscribed at its peak. For a while it was pretty much the only game in town. As I recall, when I attended the SCCA Solo II Nationals 25th Anniversary event, something like 2/3rds of the 1,000+ entrants were on the autox list. >> >> And it amazes me that with such a scatterbrained procrastinator like me behind the curtain it is still on the air. It is a lot quieter these days, much better software handle many of the janitorial tasks automatically. Back in the beginning, I had to do *everything* by hand, so to speak. Subscribes, unsubscribes, errors, I was spending 10, 15, 20 hours a week maintaining the server. The first server had a 100 MHz processor. Things have changed. Back then just having a fast network connection at a residence was rare and expensive. Good old DSL. I remember that time when my service provider went belly up, and team net was off the air for 11 days straight. I don't miss those days at all. >> >> Anyway, happy birthday to those of you still here. I hope I can continue to provide a useful service for years to come. >> >> mjb. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From britfan1 at epix.net Mon Apr 12 13:53:12 2021 From: britfan1 at epix.net (S.Carr) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:53:12 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. In-Reply-To: References: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> Message-ID: This grateful subscriber to two lists?Healeys & MGs?is sending a toast in the form of a donation, so Mark can continue to keep/get us all out of British car trouble! Sarah Carr A-H 100 & MGB/GT Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: mgs4dave Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 9:39 AM To: Robert's New iPad Cc: MGList List Subject: Re: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. Thank you, Mark. Here?s a toast to you and all your efforts over the years! I have filled looseleafs with info not found in manuals for my MGs! Cheers, Dave Houser? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Thu Apr 15 03:16:54 2021 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 11:16:54 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. In-Reply-To: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> References: <9e6d3355-b928-6b2a-0ee8-e2cfb649e3a4@bradakis.com> Message-ID: <002301d731d8$13cfee50$3b6fcaf0$@planet.nl> Thank you Mark for all your efforts. The list brought me lots of info and opportunity to share my knowledge. Most of all the list brought me lifetime friendships! Cheers, Hans 71 BGT -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Mgs Namens Mark J Bradakis Verzonden: zondag 11 april 2021 15:02 Aan: mglist Onderwerp: [Mgs] 30 years. 3 decades. On this day 30 years ago Team.Net came into being. The British-cars mailing list was already going strong, an offshoot from rec.autos Usenet group. Dale Cook, Jim Muller, then me. Team.net went from 2 lists at the beginning, autox and british-cars, and exploded into nearly 70 different lists with something like 15,000 individuals subscribed at its peak. For a while it was pretty much the only game in town. As I recall, when I attended the SCCA Solo II Nationals 25th Anniversary event, something like 2/3rds of the 1,000+ entrants were on the autox list. And it amazes me that with such a scatterbrained procrastinator like me behind the curtain it is still on the air. It is a lot quieter these days, much better software handle many of the janitorial tasks automatically. Back in the beginning, I had to do *everything* by hand, so to speak. Subscribes, unsubscribes, errors, I was spending 10, 15, 20 hours a week maintaining the server. The first server had a 100 MHz processor. Things have changed. Back then just having a fast network connection at a residence was rare and expensive. Good old DSL. I remember that time when my service provider went belly up, and team net was off the air for 11 days straight. I don't miss those days at all. Anyway, happy birthday to those of you still here. I hope I can continue to provide a useful service for years to come. mjb. -- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From rolindsay at yahoo.com Sun Apr 11 14:51:02 2021 From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 15:51:02 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept In-Reply-To: <005301d72ae2$20cb7860$62626920$@planet.nl> References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Mon Apr 19 01:50:14 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:50:14 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% Message-ID: I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like the MGA and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing changes have been found necessary, and any other problems. Thanks, PaulH. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgbobh at gmail.com Mon Apr 19 05:16:39 2021 From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 07:16:39 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59C7863B-A518-4D3C-A377-4636C5035169@gmail.com> Paul, I have been burning E10 for 20 years, ever since it became the standard in State of Connecticut. My experience has been that the standard engine configuration burned it fine, without any needle changes, and that the engine, rebuilt to UK specifications a decade ago, does just as well with the factory-specified needle. I had the type 25 distributor rebuilt by Advance, Jeff Schlemmer, and set mechanical timing at 32 at 3500. Bob > On Apr 19, 2021, at 3:50 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: > > I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like the MGA and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing changes have been found necessary, and any other problems. > > Thanks, > PaulH. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Mon Apr 19 05:23:15 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 12:23:15 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% References: <59C7863B-A518-4D3C-A377-4636C5035169@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for that Bob, very helpful. Someone over here is stressing about taking his car to France (eventually ...) where E5 was getting rare several years ago. We are trying to put his mind at rest. Paul. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert's New iPad To: PaulHunt73 Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% Paul, I have been burning E10 for 20 years, ever since it became the standard in State of Connecticut. My experience has been that the standard engine configuration burned it fine, without any needle changes, and that the engine, rebuilt to UK specifications a decade ago, does just as well with the factory-specified needle. I had the type 25 distributor rebuilt by Advance, Jeff Schlemmer, and set mechanical timing at 32 at 3500. Bob On Apr 19, 2021, at 3:50 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like the MGA and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing changes have been found necessary, and any other problems. Thanks, PaulH. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgbobh at gmail.com Mon Apr 19 06:08:33 2021 From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:08:33 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: References: <59C7863B-A518-4D3C-A377-4636C5035169@gmail.com> Message-ID: Friend should have no concerns about the E5 in France. When one reads gasoline adverts from forty and fifty years ago, one sees many in which the alcohol is advertised as octane booster, smoother running fuel, at premium price. Bob > On Apr 19, 2021, at 7:23 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: > > Thanks for that Bob, very helpful. Someone over here is stressing about taking his car to France (eventually ...) where E5 was getting rare several years ago. We are trying to put his mind at rest. > > Paul. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert's New iPad > To: PaulHunt73 > Cc: mgs at autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% > > Paul, > I have been burning E10 for 20 years, ever since it became the standard in State of Connecticut. My experience has been that the standard engine configuration burned it fine, without any needle changes, and that the engine, rebuilt to UK specifications a decade ago, does just as well with the factory-specified needle. I had the type 25 distributor rebuilt by Advance, Jeff Schlemmer, and set mechanical timing at 32 at 3500. > Bob > > >> On Apr 19, 2021, at 3:50 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: >> >> I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like the MGA and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing changes have been found necessary, and any other problems. >> >> Thanks, >> PaulH. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lon1950 at me.com Mon Apr 19 09:19:28 2021 From: lon1950 at me.com (Lon Smallridge) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 10:19:28 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: References: <59C7863B-A518-4D3C-A377-4636C5035169@gmail.com> Message-ID: <011501d7352f$64760470$2d620d50$@me.com> This will answer all your questions and more. Well worth reading. Lon Classic Engines, Modern Fuel: The Problems, the Solutions by Paul Ireland https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1787115909/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_tit le?ie=UTF8 &psc=1 From: Mgs On Behalf Of PaulHunt73 Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 6:23 AM To: Robert's New iPad Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% Thanks for that Bob, very helpful. Someone over here is stressing about taking his car to France (eventually ...) where E5 was getting rare several years ago. We are trying to put his mind at rest. Paul. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert's New iPad To: PaulHunt73 Cc: mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% Paul, I have been burning E10 for 20 years, ever since it became the standard in State of Connecticut. My experience has been that the standard engine configuration burned it fine, without any needle changes, and that the engine, rebuilt to UK specifications a decade ago, does just as well with the factory-specified needle. I had the type 25 distributor rebuilt by Advance, Jeff Schlemmer, and set mechanical timing at 32 at 3500. Bob On Apr 19, 2021, at 3:50 AM, PaulHunt73 > wrote: I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like the MGA and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing changes have been found necessary, and any other problems. Thanks, PaulH. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 6262 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barneymg at mgaguru.com Mon Apr 19 09:35:00 2021 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:35:00 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul (and others), -- Alcohol has about 40% lower energy content than gasoline, so the fuel economy will be lower by about 1-MPG. Needing to burn 4% more fuel, you may need to re-adjust the fuel mixture slightly, about one flat down on the adjusting nut. Most people will never notice the difference, and you can easily switch back and forth between E10 and zero-alcohol fuel on the fly with no problem. But there is one problem that does pop up to bite you sometimes, especially in hot weather. Gasoline boils at 190dF. Alcohol boils af 160dF. This is a mixture of liquids, not a chemical compound. If you warm it up to 160dF the alcohol will boil, and you can separate the alcohol out of the mixture by distillation while the gasoline content is not boiling. The problem is that fuel containing any amount of alcohol will boil at 160dF rather than 190dF. This can be a big problem in warm weather with stop and go slow driving or standing still idling, or when you switch off for five minutes and then try to re-start. When the alcohol boils it will result in bubbles in the fuel as it wants to flow through the main fuel jet past the metering needle. Not much energy in the bubbles compared to liquid fuel, so the mixture goes extremely lean causing bad running or no-start. The immediate fix is to pull the choke out to give it more fuel flow, which can get the engine started or can get you through the bad running condition until you get moving and cool the carburetors down again. A longer term fix for this problem is to install a Bilge Blower fan in the MGA air intake duct to blow air to keep the carburetors cool enough to prevent boiling the alcohol. There are several successive pages on this information, Start additional reading here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb207.htm http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb208b.htm Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com At 03:50 AM 4/19/2021, PaulHunt73 wrote: >I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like >the MGA and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing >changes have been found necessary, and any other problems. > >Thanks, >PaulH. >.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eyera3000 at gmail.com Mon Apr 19 09:51:04 2021 From: eyera3000 at gmail.com (i erbs) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:51:04 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: <20210419153532.6F797A0E17@autox.team.net> References: <20210419153532.6F797A0E17@autox.team.net> Message-ID: Im in my 2nd tank full of ethanol free fuel, and I still have idle die issues at full stop situations when engine temp is 189 or higher. I pull the choke out to prevent stalls. Ira Erbs 1959 AH 100-6 1967 MGB Milwaukie, OR On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 8:35 AM Barney Gaylord wrote: > Paul (and others), -- Alcohol has about 40% lower energy content than > gasoline, so the fuel economy will be lower by about 1-MPG. Needing to > burn 4% more fuel, you may need to re-adjust the fuel mixture slightly, > about one flat down on the adjusting nut. Most people will never notice > the difference, and you can easily switch back and forth between E10 and > zero-alcohol fuel on the fly with no problem. > > But there is one problem that does pop up to bite you sometimes, > especially in hot weather. Gasoline boils at 190dF. Alcohol boils af > 160dF. This is a mixture of liquids, not a chemical compound. If you warm > it up to 160dF the alcohol will boil, and you can separate the alcohol out > of the mixture by distillation while the gasoline content is not boiling. > > The problem is that fuel containing any amount of alcohol will boil at > 160dF rather than 190dF. This can be a big problem in warm weather with > stop and go slow driving or standing still idling, or when you switch off > for five minutes and then try to re-start. When the alcohol boils it will > result in bubbles in the fuel as it wants to flow through the main fuel jet > past the metering needle. Not much energy in the bubbles compared to > liquid fuel, so the mixture goes extremely lean causing bad running or > no-start. The immediate fix is to pull the choke out to give it more fuel > flow, which can get the engine started or can get you through the bad > running condition until you get moving and cool the carburetors down again. > > A longer term fix for this problem is to install a Bilge Blower fan in the > MGA air intake duct to blow air to keep the carburetors cool enough to > prevent boiling the alcohol. There are several successive pages on this > information, Start additional reading here: > http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb207.htm > http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb208b.htm > > Barney Gaylord > 1958 MGA with an attitude > http://MGAguru.com > > > At 03:50 AM 4/19/2021, PaulHunt73 wrote: > > I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like the MGA > and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing changes have been > found necessary, and any other problems. > > Thanks, > PaulH. > .... > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eyera3000 at gmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mvheim at sonic.net Mon Apr 19 10:26:36 2021 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:26:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: References: <20210419153532.6F797A0E17@autox.team.net> Message-ID: <601A62F7-535A-47E7-A97F-4D0D419B5336@sonic.net> All the fuel in CA is 10% ethanol and I have never noticed any difference, even in hot weather. My experience is similar to Robert?s, in that regard. Compared to the MGA, it is possible that the MGB has more under bonnet air flow and lower temps. Just proposing a theory. -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Apr 19, 2021, at 8:51 AM, i erbs wrote: > > Im in my 2nd tank full of ethanol free fuel, and I still have idle die issues at full stop situations when engine temp is 189 or higher. I pull the choke out to prevent stalls. > > Ira Erbs > 1959 AH 100-6 > 1967 MGB > Milwaukie, OR > > On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 8:35 AM Barney Gaylord > wrote: > Paul (and others), -- Alcohol has about 40% lower energy content than gasoline, so the fuel economy will be lower by about 1-MPG. Needing to burn 4% more fuel, you may need to re-adjust the fuel mixture slightly, about one flat down on the adjusting nut. Most people will never notice the difference, and you can easily switch back and forth between E10 and zero-alcohol fuel on the fly with no problem. > > But there is one problem that does pop up to bite you sometimes, especially in hot weather. Gasoline boils at 190dF. Alcohol boils af 160dF. This is a mixture of liquids, not a chemical compound. If you warm it up to 160dF the alcohol will boil, and you can separate the alcohol out of the mixture by distillation while the gasoline content is not boiling. > > The problem is that fuel containing any amount of alcohol will boil at 160dF rather than 190dF. This can be a big problem in warm weather with stop and go slow driving or standing still idling, or when you switch off for five minutes and then try to re-start. When the alcohol boils it will result in bubbles in the fuel as it wants to flow through the main fuel jet past the metering needle. Not much energy in the bubbles compared to liquid fuel, so the mixture goes extremely lean causing bad running or no-start. The immediate fix is to pull the choke out to give it more fuel flow, which can get the engine started or can get you through the bad running condition until you get moving and cool the carburetors down again. > > A longer term fix for this problem is to install a Bilge Blower fan in the MGA air intake duct to blow air to keep the carburetors cool enough to prevent boiling the alcohol. There are several successive pages on this information, Start additional reading here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb207.htm > http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/carbs/cb208b.htm > > Barney Gaylord > 1958 MGA with an attitude > http://MGAguru.com > > > At 03:50 AM 4/19/2021, PaulHunt73 wrote: >> I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like the MGA and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing changes have been found necessary, and any other problems. >> >> Thanks, >> PaulH. >> .... > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eyera3000 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcouncill at karamursel.org Mon Apr 19 11:45:12 2021 From: dcouncill at karamursel.org (D Councill) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 10:45:12 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: <20210419153529.E77CAA0DF0@autox.team.net> References: <20210419153529.E77CAA0DF0@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I have been using E10 fuel for over forty years with favorable results. I switched to E10 when I was in college in Nebraska in the 70s. Gasohol was cheaper there since Nebraska is a major corn producer. My 65B ran cleaner although it was prone to vapor locking during summer months, but that I mostly attributed to the fuel pump the previous owner mounted in the engine compartment to replace the SU pump. When I moved to Montana in the 80s, I did not have gasohol available, and during the bitterly cold winter months, I experienced fuel line freezing issues from water absorbed in the fuel. I ended up adding "fuel line antifreeze" aka methanol which was commonly available at gas stations and auto stores, about 250 ml. to my tank after fill up during the cold months. I was working as a chemist so I started buying methanol rather than the higher priced packaged "antifreeze". Sometime in the past 10-15 years, E10 became the predominant fuel in the USA. Where I live, you can get non-ethanol gasoline but it costs a good 30% more. I always use the ethanol whereas my son believes that E10 is bad due to the corrosiveness. That to some extent is true - my MGs get in a lot of regular driving whereas he might take a few months to go through a tank of fuel. Still, I think the ethanol corrosion issue is greatly over-rated. There was an issue in the 70s with rubber components in some cars but not, from my experience, with British cars. The real issue, as I see it, is not with ethanol but with water. Water comes from the air and condenses in the tank. Ethanol will absorb it to some extent whereas it will separate out sooner in pure gasoline. Either way, water accumulation over time will eventually corrode the fuel tank and cause rusting. From my experience with the 80s with fuel line freezing, I try to keep the tank full, particularly if the car is sitting for extended periods. I also add Sta-bil if the car is going to sit for more than 4-5 months. But I do that mostly to reduce fuel evaporation and water absorption rather than ethanol concerns. Searching the Internet, I do see different schools of thought on ethanol usage but a number indicate beneficial use in classic cars, a few below - https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1313318/classic-cars-uk-fuel-e10-p etrol-changes-damage https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/e10-fuel-good-for-classic-vehicles David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Tue Apr 20 08:11:13 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 15:11:13 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% References: <59C7863B-A518-4D3C-A377-4636C5035169@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all the responses, it seems to me that whilst several mentioned things they had read or links to articles describing problems I can't see (but may have missed ...) any indication of actual problems encountered except one related to heat, including David Council with 40 years experience of using it! A couple of people mentioned tweaks to timing, needles and mixture, but then many of us have been doing that anyway on leaded and E5. As far as heat goes although the UK is hardly a 'hot' country we still get a few complaining of problems, which has to be down to the individual vehicles as otherwise the MGB etc. would be unusable in desert states. PaulH. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pchastnow at gmail.com Tue Apr 20 09:42:01 2021 From: pchastnow at gmail.com (Peter Chast) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 11:42:01 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks like a new spammer with our list? Thanks, Pete ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Jay & Paul Date: Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:42 AM Subject: Buying an European classic car To: Paul Klein *Greetings, I hope this message finds you well and safe.* *I'm not sure if I got the correct address. * *Jim Turner gave me your contact information, he's a member of the British Car Club Of America.* *I'm looking to buy an European classic car such as British, German or Italian.* *Jim thinks you may have or know about a one for sale.* *Actually, I'm restoring my Dad's 1982 Ferrari GTB. I'll consider any condition.* *Please let me know, I'll not be wasting your time.* *Sincerely,* *Paul & Denise Klein* *Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest* *of places if you look at it right (Garcia/Hunter)* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccrobins at ktc.com Tue Apr 20 10:09:23 2021 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charles Robinson) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 11:09:23 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a8b7db5-76b0-66b8-f2a9-21cc6faa4676@ktc.com> A friend of mine who's never owned a LBC or other foreign classic car forwarded that McLean post to me.? Looks like a broadband scam to me. CR On 4/20/2021 10:42 AM, Peter Chast wrote: > Looks like a new spammer with our list? > > Thanks, > Pete > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: *Jay & Paul* > > Date: Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:42 AM > Subject: Buying an European classic car > To: Paul Klein > > > > *Greetings, I hope this message finds you well and safe.* > * > * > *I'm not sure if I got the correct address. * > * > * > *Jim Turner gave me your contact information, he's a member of the > British Car Club Of America.* > * > * > *I'm looking to?buy?an European classic car such as British, German or > Italian.* > * > * > *Jim thinks you may have or know about a one for sale.* > * > * > *Actually, I'm restoring my Dad's 1982 Ferrari GTB. I'll consider any > condition.* > * > * > *Please let me know, I'll not be wasting your time.* > ** > *Sincerely,* > * > * > *Paul & Denise Klein* > *Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest* > *of places if you look at it right (Garcia/Hunter)* > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrob at bell.net Tue Apr 20 10:24:46 2021 From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 12:24:46 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car In-Reply-To: <4a8b7db5-76b0-66b8-f2a9-21cc6faa4676@ktc.com> References: <4a8b7db5-76b0-66b8-f2a9-21cc6faa4676@ktc.com> Message-ID: Hello Pete, It could be genuine and the only way to find out is to pursue it.?? Any suggestion the bloke wanting money you can abort knowing you have taken up some of his scamming time for naught !!! On 4/20/2021 12:09 PM, Charles Robinson wrote: > > A friend of mine who's never owned a LBC or other foreign classic car > forwarded that McLean post to me.? Looks like a broadband scam to me. > > CR > > On 4/20/2021 10:42 AM, Peter Chast wrote: >> Looks like a new spammer with our list? >> >> Thanks, >> Pete >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: *Jay & Paul* > > >> Date: Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:42 AM >> Subject: Buying an European classic car >> To: Paul Klein > > >> >> >> *Greetings, I hope this message finds you well and safe.* >> * >> * >> *I'm not sure if I got the correct address. * >> * >> * >> *Jim Turner gave me your contact information, he's a member of the >> British Car Club Of America.* >> * >> * >> *I'm looking to?buy?an European classic car such as British, German >> or Italian.* >> * >> * >> *Jim thinks you may have or know about a one for sale.* >> * >> * >> *Actually, I'm restoring my Dad's 1982 Ferrari GTB. I'll consider any >> condition.* >> * >> * >> *Please let me know, I'll not be wasting your time.* >> ** >> *Sincerely,* >> * >> * >> *Paul & Denise Klein* >> *Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest* >> *of places if you look at it right (Garcia/Hunter)* >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> >> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Wed Apr 21 02:14:46 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:14:46 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car References: Message-ID: Did it come to you via the list? The addressing info indicates not, and the From and To are the same, which in itself raises a warning flag. If you become a member of the list can you access the details of other members in order to email them directly? ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Chast To: MG list Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 4:42 PM Subject: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car Looks like a new spammer with our list? Thanks, Pete ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Jay & Paul Date: Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:42 AM Subject: Buying an European classic car To: Paul Klein Greetings, I hope this message finds you well and safe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgorr2 at comcast.net Wed Apr 21 06:37:58 2021 From: sgorr2 at comcast.net (Steve Gorr) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:37:58 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car In-Reply-To: References: <4a8b7db5-76b0-66b8-f2a9-21cc6faa4676@ktc.com> Message-ID: Is there anyone you know that is a member of the ?British Car Club of America?? Doesn?t seem to be a club named that on Google. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Barrie Robinson Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 11:25 AM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car Hello Pete, It could be genuine and the only way to find out is to pursue it.?? Any suggestion the bloke wanting money you can abort knowing you have taken up some of his scamming time for naught !!! On 4/20/2021 12:09 PM, Charles Robinson wrote: A friend of mine who's never owned a LBC or other foreign classic car forwarded that McLean post to me.? Looks like a broadband scam to me. CR On 4/20/2021 10:42 AM, Peter Chast wrote: Looks like a new spammer with our list? Thanks, Pete ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Jay & Paul Date: Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:42 AM Subject: Buying an European classic car To: Paul Klein Greetings, I hope this message finds you well and safe. I'm not sure if I got the correct address.? Jim Turner gave me your contact information, he's a member of the British Car Club Of America. I'm looking to?buy?an European classic car such as British, German or Italian. Jim thinks you may have or know about a one for sale. Actually, I'm restoring my Dad's 1982 Ferrari GTB. I'll consider any condition. Please let me know, I'll not be wasting your time. ? Sincerely, Paul & Denise Klein Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right (Garcia/Hunter) _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccrobins at ktc.com Wed Apr 21 06:42:44 2021 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charles Robinson) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:42:44 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car In-Reply-To: <20210421123806.ED8D5A0EDD@autox.team.net> References: <4a8b7db5-76b0-66b8-f2a9-21cc6faa4676@ktc.com> <20210421123806.ED8D5A0EDD@autox.team.net> Message-ID: I did a Google search for it too.? Nothing came up with that name. CR On 4/21/2021 7:37 AM, Steve Gorr wrote: > > Is there anyone you know that is a member of the ?British Car Club of > America?? Doesn?t seem to be a club named that on Google. > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Barrie Robinson > *Sent: *Tuesday, April 20, 2021 11:25 AM > *To: *mgs at autox.team.net > *Subject: *Re: [Mgs] Fwd: Buying an European classic car > > Hello Pete, > > It could be genuine and the only way to find out is to pursue it.?? > Any suggestion the bloke wanting money you can abort knowing you have > taken up some of his scamming time for naught !!! > > On 4/20/2021 12:09 PM, Charles Robinson wrote: > > A friend of mine who's never owned a LBC or other foreign classic > car forwarded that McLean post to me.? Looks like a broadband scam > to me. > > CR > > On 4/20/2021 10:42 AM, Peter Chast wrote: > > Looks like a new spammer with our list? > > Thanks, > > Pete > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: *Jay & Paul* > > Date: Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:42 AM > Subject: Buying an European classic car > To: Paul Klein > > > *Greetings, I hope this message finds you well and safe.* > > *I'm not sure if I got the correct address. * > > *Jim Turner gave me your contact information, he's a member of > the British Car Club Of America.* > > *I'm looking to?buy?an European classic car such as British, > German or Italian.* > > *Jim thinks you may have or know about a one for sale.* > > *Actually, I'm restoring my Dad's 1982 Ferrari GTB. I'll > consider any condition.* > > *Please let me know, I'll not be wasting your time.* > > ** > > *Sincerely,* > > *Paul & Denise Klein* > > *Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest* > > *of places if you look at it right (Garcia/Hunter)* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation? $12.75 > > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation? $12.75 > > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Wed Apr 21 09:22:38 2021 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:22:38 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: References: <59C7863B-A518-4D3C-A377-4636C5035169@gmail.com> Message-ID: Paul, I had a '74 MGB in Texas. Never had any overheating problems. In fact the only heat problems I had with that car was that it would not warm up on my early morning drives to Stansted Airport after we moved back to the UK and imported it. Simon On Tue, Apr 20, 2021, 7:28 AM 'PaulHunt73' via MG-MGA-MGB < mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com> wrote: > Thanks for all the responses, it seems to me that whilst several mentioned > things they had read or links to articles describing problems I can't see > (but may have missed ...) any indication of actual problems encountered > except one related to heat, including David Council with 40 years > experience of using it! A couple of people mentioned tweaks to timing, > needles and mixture, but then many of us have been doing that anyway on > leaded and E5. > > As far as heat goes although the UK is hardly a 'hot' country we still get > a few complaining of problems, which has to be down to the individual > vehicles as otherwise the MGB etc. would be unusable in desert states. > > PaulH. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MG-MGA-MGB" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to mg-mga-mgb+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mg-mga-mgb/ED4E9AC70E094781A965324E0EEB9473%40paul > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at coastaldatasystems.com Wed Apr 21 09:36:32 2021 From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Steve West-fisher) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:36:32 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: References: <59C7863B-A518-4D3C-A377-4636C5035169@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/21/21 11:22 AM, Simon Matthews wrote: > Paul, > > I had a '74 MGB in Texas. Never had any overheating problems. In fact > the only heat problems I had with that car was that it would not warm > up on my early morning drives to Stansted Airport after we moved back > to the UK and imported it. > Or my '72 in Florida. I lived in Tampa 84-85 where it was my only car, and then in St. Pete from 98-2013, but not primary driver. I think in'08 or so I had to change the water pump but it never overheated. Properly maintained they do not overheat. Steve -- ----------------- Steve West-Fisher N4IK From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Thu Apr 22 03:59:21 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:59:21 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Replacement alternator Message-ID: Yesterday on a friend of a friend's CB MGB. A 'universal' 16/17/18ACR of 55 amps output and a new belt of the same number that came off - 10900. The only way the belt would go on was by fitting it before the mounting bolts! With the body sitting on the engine mount there is still at least 1/2" of movement in the adjuster that can't be used, and with everything installed the adjuster has barely moved from the minimum position. Two other people on the MGOC forum found the same thing, so I suspect the body on these is fatter. One was offered alternative belts of 10925 and 10950 but not unsurprisingly at the time stayed with the original. Maybe the 10925 would be a better bet, I was aware of the 10950 for late RBs but felt that might be too big. PaulH. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccrobins at ktc.com Fri Apr 23 04:55:14 2021 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charles Robinson) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 05:55:14 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Replacement alternator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You didn't say what year? the B is.? I looked the alternator up. I note there's a16AC unit,45A, for 68-69.? Might be a better fit. What unit came off the car? CR On 4/22/2021 4:59 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: > Yesterday on a friend of a friend's CB MGB. A 'universal' 16/17/18ACR > of 55 amps output and a new belt of the same number that came off - > 10900. The only way the belt would go on was by fitting it before the > mounting bolts! With the body sitting on the engine mount there is > still at least 1/2" of movement in the adjuster that can't be used, > and with everything installed the adjuster has barely moved from the > minimum position. > > Two other people on the MGOC forum found the same thing, so I suspect > the body on these is fatter. One was offered alternative belts of > 10925 and 10950 but not unsurprisingly at the time stayed with the > original. Maybe the 10925 would be a better bet, I was aware of the > 10950 for late RBs but felt that might be too big. > PaulH. > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Fri Apr 23 05:50:17 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 12:50:17 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Replacement alternator References: Message-ID: It's on and working well. It's a 72, 16AC would be the wrong type as it uses an external regulator, I doubt anyone would bother fitting one of those these days. 16/17/18ACR (internal regulation) should all be plug compatible with each other but require a different plug if replacing a 16AC. The original 16AC and ACR were 34 amps, rising though the 17 to the 18 at 45 amps. If that 16AC really is 45 amps then it's not a standard unit and may have the same problem. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- You didn't say what year the B is. I looked the alternator up. I note there's a16AC unit,45A, for 68-69. Might be a better fit. What unit came off the car? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccrobins at ktc.com Sat Apr 24 03:08:50 2021 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charles Robinson) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 04:08:50 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Replacement alternator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07885d21-3bbb-2516-7794-206bb46446f9@ktc.com> Glad it's resolved.? I was drawn to the 16AC because I figured a lesser output unit might be physically smaller. I have a '69 with a 5-wire alternator which has an internal regulator.? Perhaps different accessories for the U. S. market. (?)? It's a rebuilt unit from Autozone, marketed under the Duralast brand name, came with a lifetime warranty.? Last replacement was a number of years ago.? Not even sure they carry it now. ? Don't drive the B much now; it's main enemy is the passage of time. CR On 4/23/2021 6:50 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: > It's on and working well.? It's a 72, 16AC would be the wrong type as > it uses an external regulator, I doubt anyone would bother fitting one > of those these days. 16/17/18ACR (internal regulation) should all be > plug compatible with each other but require a different plug if > replacing a 16AC.? The original 16AC and ACR?were 34 amps, rising > though the 17 to the 18 at 45 amps.? If that 16AC really is 45 amps > then it's not a standard unit and may have the same problem. > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > You didn't say what year? the B is.? I looked the alternator up.? > I note there's a16AC unit,45A, for 68-69.? Might be a better fit.? > What unit came off the car? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Sat Apr 24 03:56:19 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 10:56:19 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Replacement alternator References: <07885d21-3bbb-2516-7794-206bb46446f9@ktc.com> Message-ID: <9FD9FC997B3C4879A091A5B1260AE44F@paul> According to the diagrams 5-wire two-plug internally regulated was 16ACR, not 16AC which had a single plug and four wires to the external regulator. After that 17 and 18 ACR were two or three wires on a single 3-terminal connection. ----- Original Message ----- I have a '69 with a 5-wire alternator which has an internal regulator. Perhaps different accessories for the U. S. market. (?) It's a rebuilt unit from Autozone, marketed under the Duralast brand name, came with a lifetime warranty. Last replacement was a number of years ago. Not even sure they carry it now. Don't drive the B much now; it's main enemy is the passage of time. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccrobins at ktc.com Sat Apr 24 13:30:34 2021 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charles Robinson) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 14:30:34 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Replacement alternator In-Reply-To: <9FD9FC997B3C4879A091A5B1260AE44F@paul> References: <07885d21-3bbb-2516-7794-206bb46446f9@ktc.com> <9FD9FC997B3C4879A091A5B1260AE44F@paul> Message-ID: <668f1ee5-32ae-4156-18d7-698173ff8c6b@ktc.com> You're right.? I looked at those drawings? too but I only compared them to what I have, not the 16AC.? Oh well; glad it all worked out. CR On 4/24/2021 4:56 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: > According to the diagrams 5-wire two-plug internally regulated was > 16ACR, not 16AC which had a single plug and four wires to the external > regulator.? After that 17 and 18 ACR?were two or three wires on a > single 3-terminal connection. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > I have a '69 with a 5-wire alternator which has an internal > regulator.? Perhaps different accessories for the U. S. market. > (?)? It's a rebuilt unit from Autozone, marketed under the > Duralast brand name, came with a lifetime warranty.? Last > replacement was a number of years ago.? Not even sure they carry > it now. ? Don't drive the B much now; it's main enemy is the > passage of time. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From guinness at stclegal.com Sun Apr 25 20:14:41 2021 From: guinness at stclegal.com (Robert J. Guinness) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 21:14:41 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem Message-ID: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> I replaced my leaking clutch slave cylinder on my MGA 1600. Everything went in fine, and I bled the system with an EZBleed. The clutch slave works, but now the range in which the clutch engages is very quick and with a short "throw".? The pedal feels like it is meeting pressure as in the days before the replacement, but there is no "ride" on the clutch.? What can cause this and what is the solution? -- e-mail signature Robert Guinness -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palte at gmx.net Mon Apr 26 00:42:39 2021 From: palte at gmx.net (palte) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 08:42:39 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem In-Reply-To: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> Message-ID: <1MgeoI-1l7O291dGe-00h2FO@mail.gmx.net> Different bore diameter?Verzonden vanaf mijn Galaxy -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------Van: "Robert J. Guinness" Datum: 26-04-2021 04:15 (GMT+01:00) Aan: mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem I replaced my leaking clutch slave cylinder on my MGA 1600.? Everything went in fine, and I bled the system with an EZBleed.? The clutch slave works, but now the range in which the clutch engages is very quick and with a short "throw".? The pedal feels like it is meeting pressure as in the days before the replacement, but there is no "ride" on the clutch.? What can cause this and what is the solution? -- e-mail signature p { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 1px } body { font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal } Robert Guinness -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Mon Apr 26 02:02:23 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 09:02:23 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> Message-ID: e-mail signatureTerminology - is it that the biting point has moved? If it's nearer the floor then there is still air in there. If it's either in or out with very little travel where you can slip the clutch for manouvering then it could be a narrower bore. If that's the case then I'd expect more movement than normal at the slave push-rod, which is measurable. Can't say for the MGA but the MGB is 1/2" to 5/8". I'd expect a longer throw of the push-rod to result in a higher biting point and a 'heavier' pedal than normal. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- I replaced my leaking clutch slave cylinder on my MGA 1600. Everything went in fine, and I bled the system with an EZBleed. The clutch slave works, but now the range in which the clutch engages is very quick and with a short "throw". The pedal feels like it is meeting pressure as in the days before the replacement, but there is no "ride" on the clutch. What can cause this and what is the solution? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From guinness at stclegal.com Mon Apr 26 08:13:48 2021 From: guinness at stclegal.com (Robert J. Guinness) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 09:13:48 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem In-Reply-To: References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> Message-ID: <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> Yes, thanks for the correct term.? That is precisely what I wanted to describe.? Back to the two person pedal assist bleeding method as insurance, I suppose On 4/26/2021 3:02 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: > ? e-mail signature > Terminology - is it that the biting point has moved?? If it's nearer > the floor then there is still air in there. > If it's either in or out with very little travel?where you can slip > the clutch for manouvering then it could be a narrower bore.? If > that's the case then I'd expect more movement than normal?at the slave > push-rod, which is measurable.? Can't say for the MGA but the MGB is > 1/2" to 5/8".? I'd expect a longer throw of the push-rod to result in > a higher biting point and a 'heavier' pedal?than normal. > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > I replaced my leaking clutch slave cylinder on my MGA 1600. > Everything went in fine, and I bled the system with an EZBleed.? > The clutch slave works, but now the range in which the clutch > engages is very quick and with a short "throw". The pedal feels > like it is meeting pressure as in the days before the replacement, > but there is no "ride" on the clutch. What can cause this and what > is the solution? > -- e-mail signature Robert Guinness -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Mon Apr 26 08:35:48 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 15:35:48 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> Message-ID: <142C093151ED493ABDB2FA360BBD8A2F@paul> e-mail signatureBleeding is a pain on the MGB, what usually works is to wedge the pedal fully down overnight then release it carefully - i.e. not with a bang - next morning. This displaces any air bubbles which allows them to flow to a loop at the top of the pipe (on the MGB) then releasing the pedal next morning flushes it back into the reservoir. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- Yes, thanks for the correct term. That is precisely what I wanted to describe. Back to the two person pedal assist bleeding method as insurance, I suppose -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ccrobins at ktc.com Mon Apr 26 09:14:01 2021 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charles Robinson) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 10:14:01 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem In-Reply-To: <142C093151ED493ABDB2FA360BBD8A2F@paul> References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> <142C093151ED493ABDB2FA360BBD8A2F@paul> Message-ID: That's new to me.? When doing it solo, I attach a tube to the bleed screw on the slave cylinder, run it into a partially full catch basin and slowly pump the clutch pedal until all the air is pumped out of the system, adding fluid as necessary to the master cylinder so it doesn't go dry.?? This has always worked for me. CR On 4/26/2021 9:35 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: > ? e-mail signature > Bleeding is a pain on the MGB, what usually works is to wedge the > pedal fully down overnight then release it carefully - i.e. not with a > bang - next morning.? This displaces any air bubbles which allows them > to flow to a loop at the top of the pipe (on the MGB) then releasing > the pedal next morning flushes it back into the reservoir. > PaulH. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Mon Apr 26 09:50:33 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:50:33 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> <142C093151ED493ABDB2FA360BBD8A2F@paul> Message-ID: <19B5F7959B464CCC8A59A49D2BE2DECE@paul> e-mail signatureAh well, the immortal phrase "until all the air is pumped out of the system". If you are pumping the pedal you really need two people, the other one to close and open the nipple at each up/down stroke. If you are going to be pumping it's better to run a tube from the bleed nipple back up to the reservoir, then you don't have to keep topping up or run the risk if introducing more air. EeziBleed is 'Eezier' as it is one person continuous flow and continuous topping-up - until the EeziBleed bottle empties. Depending on the system you can pump or EeziBleed until the cows come home but with low pressure you will never get rid of all the air, a higher pressure step is often needed. MGB brake systems with the remote servo are another problem area on the MGB. After trying two servos (and proving it was the servo that was the problem) in a loooong thread elsewhere some twelve methods were offered, tried and found wanting and the person involved eventually gave up on the idea of adding a servo. As for the clutch two MGB owners have found the Girling master used on the TR6 (one of them after having no problems on a TR6) when fitted to the MGB bleeds straight away. Cap clearance can be tight though. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- That's new to me. When doing it solo, I attach a tube to the bleed screw on the slave cylinder, run it into a partially full catch basin and slowly pump the clutch pedal until all the air is pumped out of the system, adding fluid as necessary to the master cylinder so it doesn't go dry. This has always worked for me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bispmotala at hotmail.com Mon Apr 26 10:03:47 2021 From: Bispmotala at hotmail.com (Ulla &Sven Ordell) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:03:47 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem In-Reply-To: <19B5F7959B464CCC8A59A49D2BE2DECE@paul> References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> <142C093151ED493ABDB2FA360BBD8A2F@paul> <19B5F7959B464CCC8A59A49D2BE2DECE@paul> Message-ID: On a clutch slave cylinder you often need to manually return the cylinder while bleeding to get rid of the air that hides behind the cylinder as it doesn?t retract fully by its own. Good luck Sven Sweden Fr?n: Mgs F?r PaulHunt73 Skickat: den 26 april 2021 17:51 Till: mgs at autox.team.net; Charles Robinson ?mne: Re: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem Ah well, the immortal phrase "until all the air is pumped out of the system". If you are pumping the pedal you really need two people, the other one to close and open the nipple at each up/down stroke. If you are going to be pumping it's better to run a tube from the bleed nipple back up to the reservoir, then you don't have to keep topping up or run the risk if introducing more air. EeziBleed is 'Eezier' as it is one person continuous flow and continuous topping-up - until the EeziBleed bottle empties. Depending on the system you can pump or EeziBleed until the cows come home but with low pressure you will never get rid of all the air, a higher pressure step is often needed. MGB brake systems with the remote servo are another problem area on the MGB. After trying two servos (and proving it was the servo that was the problem) in a loooong thread elsewhere some twelve methods were offered, tried and found wanting and the person involved eventually gave up on the idea of adding a servo. As for the clutch two MGB owners have found the Girling master used on the TR6 (one of them after having no problems on a TR6) when fitted to the MGB bleeds straight away. Cap clearance can be tight though. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- That's new to me. When doing it solo, I attach a tube to the bleed screw on the slave cylinder, run it into a partially full catch basin and slowly pump the clutch pedal until all the air is pumped out of the system, adding fluid as necessary to the master cylinder so it doesn't go dry. This has always worked for me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at ranteer.com Mon Apr 26 14:12:33 2021 From: dave at ranteer.com (dave) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 15:12:33 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] rubber bumper woes Message-ID: <000001d73ad8$7e9aa550$7bcfeff0$@ranteer.com> We are working on a 79 MGB that we are prepping for sale. Guy had some stickers on the bumper, undoubtedly for years. Any ideas on how to get that crap off? Thanks! btw this is a very original, 44k mileage car. Paint and interior are all in really good shape. Not perfect, but we think it's the original paint. No signs of a respray. Even the paint in the engine compartment is in pretty good shape. The rubber bumpers are excellent, except for the aforementioned sticker residue. All the pollution stuff, etc., is all there. Very unmolested if someone is looking for a really good, rust free, Texas car. Still has the dealer emblem on it, from right here in Dallas/Fort Worth. Lots of documentation, too. The foam in the passenger seat is shot; we are replacing it. this thing really belongs in a museum. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: B725EFEC.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83850 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 124A67D7.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 179994 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: D63377AE.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 110269 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barneymg at mgaguru.com Mon Apr 26 14:14:37 2021 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:14:37 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem In-Reply-To: <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> Message-ID: Robert, If the clutch is engaging/disengaging very near top of pedal stroke, you can shorten the clutch master pushrod a bit to provide some pre-travel for the pedal, which may be more for to your preference. Barney Gaylord 1058 MG with an attitude http://MGAguru.com At 10:13 AM 4/26/2021, Robert J. Guinness wrote: >.... >Yes, thanks for the correct term.? That is >precisely what I wanted to describe.? Back to >the two person pedal assist bleeding method as insurance, I suppose. >-- >Robert Guinness >On 4/26/2021 3:02 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: >>??? >>Terminology - is it that the biting point has >>moved?? If it's nearer the floor then there is still air in there. >>? >>If it's either in or out with very little >>travel? where you can slip the clutch for >>manouvering then it could be a narrower >>bore.? If that's the case then I'd expect more >>movement than normal? at the slave push-rod, >>which is measurable.? Can't say for the MGA >>but the MGB is 1/2" to 5/8".? I'd expect a >>longer throw of the push-rod to result in a >>higher biting point and a 'heavier' pedal? than normal. >>? >>PaulH. >>----- Original Message ----- >> >>I replaced my leaking clutch slave cylinder on >>my MGA 1600.? Everything went in fine, and I >>bled the system with an EZBleed.? The clutch >>slave works, but now the range in which the >>clutch engages is very quick and with a short >>"throw".? The pedal feels like it is meeting >>pressure as in the days before the replacement, >>but there is no "ride" on the clutch.? What >>can cause this and what is the solution? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mvheim at sonic.net Mon Apr 26 14:26:45 2021 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 13:26:45 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] rubber bumper woes In-Reply-To: <000001d73ad8$7e9aa550$7bcfeff0$@ranteer.com> References: <000001d73ad8$7e9aa550$7bcfeff0$@ranteer.com> Message-ID: WD40 is really good for removing stickers, and doesn?t dissolve paint or plastic. Let it soak in, peeling away the glossy surface layer if necessary. Once it?s good and soaked you should be able to scrub it away with a paper towel, then clean with detergent. -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Apr 26, 2021, at 1:12 PM, dave wrote: > > We are working on a 79 MGB that we are prepping for sale. Guy had some stickers on the bumper, undoubtedly for years. > > Any ideas on how to get that crap off? > > Thanks! > > > btw this is a very original, 44k mileage car. Paint and interior are all in really good shape. Not perfect, but we think it?s the original paint. No signs of a respray. Even the paint in the engine compartment is in pretty good shape. The rubber bumpers are excellent, except for the aforementioned sticker residue. All the pollution stuff, etc., is all there. Very unmolested if someone is looking for a really good, rust free, Texas car. Still has the dealer emblem on it, from right here in Dallas/Fort Worth. Lots of documentation, too. The foam in the passenger seat is shot; we are replacing it. this thing really belongs in a museum. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgbobh at gmail.com Mon Apr 26 17:28:03 2021 From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 19:28:03 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] rubber bumper woes In-Reply-To: <000001d73ad8$7e9aa550$7bcfeff0$@ranteer.com> References: <000001d73ad8$7e9aa550$7bcfeff0$@ranteer.com> Message-ID: <0552624A-6310-4F48-87F7-86AFDD80BBA5@gmail.com> I have used salad oil on stickers. It works slowly to dissolve the adhesive. Bob > On Apr 26, 2021, at 4:12 PM, dave wrote: > > We are working on a 79 MGB that we are prepping for sale. Guy had some stickers on the bumper, undoubtedly for years. > > Any ideas on how to get that crap off? > > Thanks! > > > btw this is a very original, 44k mileage car. Paint and interior are all in really good shape. Not perfect, but we think it?s the original paint. No signs of a respray. Even the paint in the engine compartment is in pretty good shape. The rubber bumpers are excellent, except for the aforementioned sticker residue. All the pollution stuff, etc., is all there. Very unmolested if someone is looking for a really good, rust free, Texas car. Still has the dealer emblem on it, from right here in Dallas/Fort Worth. Lots of documentation, too. The foam in the passenger seat is shot; we are replacing it. this thing really belongs in a museum. > > <124A67D7.jpg> > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mvheim at sonic.net Mon Apr 26 17:38:51 2021 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:38:51 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] rubber bumper woes In-Reply-To: <0552624A-6310-4F48-87F7-86AFDD80BBA5@gmail.com> References: <000001d73ad8$7e9aa550$7bcfeff0$@ranteer.com> <0552624A-6310-4F48-87F7-86AFDD80BBA5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <86A7B86F-9239-4231-9EBE-E0313BF1E253@sonic.net> Basically, any kind of oil works. But WD40 comes in a handy spray can with targeting tube. -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Apr 26, 2021, at 4:28 PM, Robert's New iPad wrote: > > I have used salad oil on stickers. It works slowly to dissolve the adhesive. > Bob > > > On Apr 26, 2021, at 4:12 PM, dave > wrote: > >> We are working on a 79 MGB that we are prepping for sale. Guy had some stickers on the bumper, undoubtedly for years. >> >> Any ideas on how to get that crap off? >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> btw this is a very original, 44k mileage car. Paint and interior are all in really good shape. Not perfect, but we think it?s the original paint. No signs of a respray. Even the paint in the engine compartment is in pretty good shape. The rubber bumpers are excellent, except for the aforementioned sticker residue. All the pollution stuff, etc., is all there. Very unmolested if someone is looking for a really good, rust free, Texas car. Still has the dealer emblem on it, from right here in Dallas/Fort Worth. Lots of documentation, too. The foam in the passenger seat is shot; we are replacing it. this thing really belongs in a museum. >> >> <124A67D7.jpg> >> >> _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barneymg at mgaguru.com Mon Apr 19 09:53:33 2021 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:53:33 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% In-Reply-To: <011501d7352f$64760470$2d620d50$@me.com> References: <59C7863B-A518-4D3C-A377-4636C5035169@gmail.com> <011501d7352f$64760470$2d620d50$@me.com> Message-ID: Or you can read the same tech articles here, which were posted on my web site by permisson (and request) of the author Paul Ireland before it was published in the printed book. http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/pdf/modern_petrol_and_classic_cars.pdf http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/pdf/modern_petrol_volatility.pdf http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/pdf/suck_squeeze_bang_blow.pdf http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/pdf/carburation.pdf http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/pdf/the_problems_with_modern_fuel_1.pdf http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/pdf/the_problems_with_modern_fuel_2.pdf http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/pdf/fuel_and_tuning_1.pdf http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/fuel/pdf/fuel_and_tuning_21.pdf Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com At 11:19 AM 4/19/2021, Lon Smallridge wrote: >.... >This will answer all your questions and more. Well worth reading. >.... >Classic Engines, Modern Fuel: The Problems, the Solutions >by >Paul >Ireland > > >https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1787115909/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 >.... >From: Mgs On Behalf Of PaulHunt73 >Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 6:23 AM >To: Robert's New iPad >Cc: mgs at autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% > >Thanks for that Bob, very helpful. Someone over here is stressing >about taking his car to France (eventually ...) where E5 was >getting rare several years ago. We are trying to put his mind at rest. > >Paul. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Robert's New iPad >To: PaulHunt73 >Cc: mgs at autox.team.net >Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 12:16 PM >Subject: Re: [Mgs] E10 or ethanol at 10% > >Paul, > > I have been burning E10 for 20 years, ever since it became the > standard in State of Connecticut. My experience has been that the > standard engine configuration burned it fine, without any needle > changes, and that the engine, rebuilt to UK specifications a > decade ago, does just as well with the factory-specified needle. I > had the type 25 distributor rebuilt by Advance, Jeff Schlemmer, and > set mechanical timing at 32 at 3500. > >Bob >On Apr 19, 2021, at 3:50 AM, PaulHunt73 ><paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com> wrote: > >I'm looking for people with experience of using this in cars like >the MGA and MGB in terms of what if any carb needle and timing >changes have been found necessary, and any other problems. > >Thanks, > >PaulH. >.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Tue Apr 27 01:25:11 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 08:25:11 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> <20210426221727.b7fZlTvwXwH1Wb7fal92Os@mx11.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net> Message-ID: It's different to the MGB clutch slave then. That has a spring which pushes the piston out to take up play and push the release bearing onto the clutch cover plate. The cylinder is backfilled with fluid from the reservoir so you get the same travel as before. You have to reduce the pedal throw to get less movement of the release arm - BT, DT. For the other post one of the techniques in the MGB world is to clamp the push-rod and hence piston fully into the bore of the cylinder for bleeding, to push as much air and fluid out as you can before starting. The piston doesn't retract at all on its own, the above spring is trying to push the piston out. Easy to check, push on the release arm so the push-rod goes into the cylinder, then let go. If it slowly comes back out again there is a spring inside. PaulH, ----- Original Message ----- If the clutch is engaging/disengaging very near top of pedal stroke, you can shorten the clutch master pushrod a bit to provide some pre-travel for the pedal, which may be more for to your preference. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Tue Apr 27 02:15:47 2021 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:15:47 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem In-Reply-To: References: <43ed82d0-b529-3d0c-54a1-31a685cc3d55@stclegal.com> <6d6b5dfa-bec0-ca8e-2caf-6b050febcb79@stclegal.com> <142C093151ED493ABDB2FA360BBD8A2F@paul> Message-ID: <005d01d73b3d$874e79f0$95eb6dd0$@planet.nl> Bleeding can be time consuming. My son repeatedly pressed the pedal in, whereafter I opened the bleed valve. The spring pressure of the clutch makes the slave piston move backwards including pushing the liquid and air out of the bleed valve. After many times repeating this procedure, the system was fine. Same procedure for refreshing the liquid every 2 years. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT Van: Mgs Namens Charles Robinson Verzonden: maandag 26 april 2021 17:14 Aan: mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] New Clutch Slave Cylinder (MGA) problem That's new to me. When doing it solo, I attach a tube to the bleed screw on the slave cylinder, run it into a partially full catch basin and slowly pump the clutch pedal until all the air is pumped out of the system, adding fluid as necessary to the master cylinder so it doesn't go dry. This has always worked for me. CR On 4/26/2021 9:35 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote: ? Bleeding is a pain on the MGB, what usually works is to wedge the pedal fully down overnight then release it carefully - i.e. not with a bang - next morning. This displaces any air bubbles which allows them to flow to a loop at the top of the pipe (on the MGB) then releasing the pedal next morning flushes it back into the reservoir. PaulH. -- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com Wed Apr 28 08:00:19 2021 From: mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com (W. David Houser) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:00:19 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] TD and TF windshields the same? Message-ID: Good Folks, This is the first message in a long time. A friend found a MKII TD in pieces but very solid body and frame. A windshield was missing and I wonder if he can use a complete windshield and side brackets from a TF? Thanks and stay safe, Dave Houser From frankk12 at verizon.net Wed Apr 28 09:11:50 2021 From: frankk12 at verizon.net (Frank Krajewski) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:11:50 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Mold References: Message-ID: I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. Frank Krajewski 1980 MGBLE 1991 Miata LE Sent from my iPad. From ddarby at centurytel.net Wed Apr 28 09:20:49 2021 From: ddarby at centurytel.net (David F. Darby) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:20:49 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. David > -----Original Message----- > From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank > Krajewski > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM > To: Mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Mold > > I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late > September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain > has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s > Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped > me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill > called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive > mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold > removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available > products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way > to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car > uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The > detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. > Frank Krajewski > 1980 MGBLE > 1991 Miata LE > > > Sent from my iPad. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Wed Apr 28 09:53:39 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 16:53:39 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Mold References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> Message-ID: Indeed. For a short while I used a thick cotton cover over my roadster in a garage and mould developed inside. Left it uncovered ever since with either the roof or windows down and it hasn't happened since. I do use mine all year round though, when the roads have dried up after rain after salt. My son has a canvas 'garage' and the mice chewed wiring and it needed gel packs to keep the dampness down inside the car. He now has a drive-in Carcoon (Google it) inside the same garage and no problems with either. Paul. ----- Original Message ----- > Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. > >> -----Original Message----- >> >> I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late >> September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until >> the rain >> has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s >> Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has >> helped >> me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. >> Bill >> called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to >> extensive >> mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold >> removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available >> products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way >> to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car >> uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The >> detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. From mvheim at sonic.net Wed Apr 28 10:17:56 2021 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 09:17:56 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A1C05DC-0AE7-48FD-A69D-C8D6D232D29A@sonic.net> What is a ?sop?? -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Apr 28, 2021, at 8:11 AM, Frank Krajewski wrote: > > I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. > Frank Krajewski > 1980 MGBLE > 1991 Miata LE > > > Sent from my iPad. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mgbobh at gmail.com Wed Apr 28 10:40:40 2021 From: mgbobh at gmail.com (Robert's New iPad) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 12:40:40 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: <0A1C05DC-0AE7-48FD-A69D-C8D6D232D29A@sonic.net> References: <0A1C05DC-0AE7-48FD-A69D-C8D6D232D29A@sonic.net> Message-ID: <42F6F9E7-671E-40A1-9BEC-0EEF231B856F@gmail.com> Frank is using sop for Standard Operating Procedure. Bob > On Apr 28, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Max Heim wrote: > > What is a ?sop?? > > -- > Max Heim > '66 MGB > >> On Apr 28, 2021, at 8:11 AM, Frank Krajewski wrote: >> >> I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. >> Frank Krajewski >> 1980 MGBLE >> 1991 Miata LE >> >> >> Sent from my iPad. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mvheim at sonic.net Wed Apr 28 11:08:20 2021 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:08:20 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: <42F6F9E7-671E-40A1-9BEC-0EEF231B856F@gmail.com> References: <0A1C05DC-0AE7-48FD-A69D-C8D6D232D29A@sonic.net> <42F6F9E7-671E-40A1-9BEC-0EEF231B856F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87072758-D324-48F1-8551-013BBB3A1D71@sonic.net> Seriously, I was wondering if it was a New Englandism for ?damp storage area?? I am assuming this shop is unheated. I would think a light, breathable cover would be appropriate, just to keep shop debris off the paint. Windows should be cracked open. Maybe some of those moisture-absorbing packets distributed in the interior. If you are not actually working in the shop, you could take the cover off and open the windows (assuming no rodents are in residence). My MGB spends all winter in an open carport under one of those silver sun-resistant covers, which really doesn?t breathe at all, with the hardtop on and the windows cracked open. But it does get driven from time to time, and of course California winter is nothing like Rhode Island winter. -- Max Heim 1966 MGB 1967 Barracudas > On Apr 28, 2021, at 9:40 AM, Robert's New iPad wrote: > > Frank is using sop for Standard Operating Procedure. > Bob > > > On Apr 28, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Max Heim > wrote: > >> What is a ?sop?? >> >> -- >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB >> >>> On Apr 28, 2021, at 8:11 AM, Frank Krajewski > wrote: >>> >>> I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. >>> Frank Krajewski >>> 1980 MGBLE >>> 1991 Miata LE >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Mgs at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >>> >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrob at bell.net Wed Apr 28 11:43:07 2021 From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 13:43:07 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: <42F6F9E7-671E-40A1-9BEC-0EEF231B856F@gmail.com> References: <0A1C05DC-0AE7-48FD-A69D-C8D6D232D29A@sonic.net> <42F6F9E7-671E-40A1-9BEC-0EEF231B856F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Bob, I lay up my MGB GT V8 for winter. (I am in Barrie, Ontario) ? I put a car cover over it - plain jane not quite to the ground soft one - but I put one of those weak heater things that fit into a light socket (with extension cord) under the car.?? I think it is something in the area of 10W.?? This drives off dampness/mold.?? The danger is maybe mice will build a little snug around it - but so far no problems!??? In the UK I always used a small heater which burnt forever on a slurp of paraffin.???? Have not seen one in NA but then I have not looked. Cheers Barrie On 4/28/2021 12:40 PM, Robert's New iPad wrote: > ? Frank is using sop for Standard Operating Procedure. > Bob > > > On Apr 28, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Max Heim > wrote: > >> What is a ?sop?? >> >> -- >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB >> >>> On Apr 28, 2021, at 8:11 AM, Frank Krajewski >> > wrote: >>> >>> I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late >>> September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it >>> until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year >>> I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know >>> Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some >>> minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day >>> and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. >>> ?Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort >>> using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is >>> there something more I should be doing and is there some way to >>> prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car >>> uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. >>> The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold ?the car. >>> Frank Krajewski >>> 1980 MGBLE >>> 1991 Miata LE >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Mgs at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> >>> Suggested annual donation ?$12.75 >>> >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs >>> http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation ?$12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbobh at gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrob at bell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Thu Apr 29 05:36:12 2021 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:36:12 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> Message-ID: <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> Have a bag full of rice placed in the car before have it hibernating. Funny Frank asked this. Frank and I have met in 2000, when I went to Boston. http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm Cheers, Hans 71 BGT -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Mgs Namens David F. Darby Verzonden: woensdag 28 april 2021 17:21 Aan: 'Frank Krajewski' ; Mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. David > -----Original Message----- > From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank > Krajewski > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM > To: Mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Mold > > I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late > September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it > until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I > took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill > Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor > work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said > he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since > then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white > vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there > something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this > from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I > am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. > Frank Krajewski > 1980 MGBLE > 1991 Miata LE > > > Sent from my iPad. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation > $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl -- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From barrob at bell.net Thu Apr 29 09:29:44 2021 From: barrob at bell.net (Barrie Robinson) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 11:29:44 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> Message-ID: <41cb65ab-7e59-c7f6-1b03-768019893f58@bell.net> Absolutely - together with 2lbs of ham, a large cheese, peeled grapes and a partridge in a pear tree.??? To say nothing of a set of books, preferably Dickens! (well hell they must have something to read).?? But seriously if rice is your direction then it should be nasi biryani. I must stop wearing this clown's hat! Cheers Barrie On 4/29/2021 7:36 AM, h.duinhoven at planet.nl wrote: > Have a bag full of rice placed in the car before have it hibernating. > > Funny Frank asked this. Frank and I have met in 2000, when I went to Boston. > http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm > > Cheers, Hans > 71 BGT > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Mgs Namens David F. Darby > Verzonden: woensdag 28 april 2021 17:21 > Aan: 'Frank Krajewski' ; Mgs at autox.team.net > Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold > > Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. > > David > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank >> Krajewski >> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM >> To: Mgs at autox.team.net >> Subject: [Mgs] Mold >> >> I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late >> September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it >> until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I >> took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill >> Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor >> work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said >> he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since >> then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white >> vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there >> something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this >> from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I >> am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. >> Frank Krajewski >> 1980 MGBLE >> 1991 Miata LE >> >> >> Sent from my iPad. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation >> $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Thu Apr 29 12:46:12 2021 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 20:46:12 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: <41cb65ab-7e59-c7f6-1b03-768019893f58@bell.net> References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> <41cb65ab-7e59-c7f6-1b03-768019893f58@bell.net> Message-ID: <000901d73d27$ed998880$c8cc9980$@planet.nl> Rice absorbs moist very well! Cheers, Hans Van: Mgs Namens Barrie Robinson Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2021 17:30 Aan: mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Absolutely - together with 2lbs of ham, a large cheese, peeled grapes and a partridge in a pear tree. To say nothing of a set of books, preferably Dickens! (well hell they must have something to read). But seriously if rice is your direction then it should be nasi biryani. I must stop wearing this clown's hat! Cheers Barrie On 4/29/2021 7:36 AM, h.duinhoven at planet.nl wrote: Have a bag full of rice placed in the car before have it hibernating. Funny Frank asked this. Frank and I have met in 2000, when I went to Boston. http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm Cheers, Hans 71 BGT -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Mgs Namens David F. Darby Verzonden: woensdag 28 april 2021 17:21 Aan: 'Frank Krajewski' ; Mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. David -----Original Message----- From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank Krajewski Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM To: Mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Mold I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. Frank Krajewski 1980 MGBLE 1991 Miata LE Sent from my iPad. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl -- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mvheim at sonic.net Thu Apr 29 12:52:34 2021 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 11:52:34 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: <000901d73d27$ed998880$c8cc9980$@planet.nl> References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> <41cb65ab-7e59-c7f6-1b03-768019893f58@bell.net> <000901d73d27$ed998880$c8cc9980$@planet.nl> Message-ID: Also feeds mice very well? -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Apr 29, 2021, at 11:46 AM, wrote: > > Rice absorbs moist very well! > > Cheers, > Hans > > Van: Mgs > Namens Barrie Robinson > Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2021 17:30 > Aan: mgs at autox.team.net > Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold > > Absolutely - together with 2lbs of ham, a large cheese, peeled grapes and a partridge in a pear tree. To say nothing of a set of books, preferably Dickens! (well hell they must have something to read). But seriously if rice is your direction then it should be nasi biryani. > > I must stop wearing this clown's hat! > > Cheers > Barrie > > > On 4/29/2021 7:36 AM, h.duinhoven at planet.nl wrote: >> Have a bag full of rice placed in the car before have it hibernating. >> >> Funny Frank asked this. Frank and I have met in 2000, when I went to Boston. >> http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm >> >> Cheers, Hans >> 71 BGT >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: Mgs Namens David F. Darby >> Verzonden: woensdag 28 april 2021 17:21 >> Aan: 'Frank Krajewski' ; Mgs at autox.team.net >> Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold >> >> Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. >> >> David >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net ] On Behalf Of Frank >>> Krajewski >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM >>> To: Mgs at autox.team.net >>> Subject: [Mgs] Mold >>> >>> I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late >>> September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it >>> until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I >>> took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill >>> Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor >>> work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said >>> he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since >>> then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white >>> vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there >>> something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this >>> from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I >>> am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. >>> Frank Krajewski >>> 1980 MGBLE >>> 1991 Miata LE >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Mgs at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation >>> $12.75 >>> >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs >>> http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl >> >> > > > > > Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. > www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Fri Apr 30 03:00:11 2021 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (h.duinhoven at planet.nl) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:00:11 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> <41cb65ab-7e59-c7f6-1b03-768019893f58@bell.net> <000901d73d27$ed998880$c8cc9980$@planet.nl> Message-ID: <003301d73d9f$3a412040$aec360c0$@planet.nl> There?s a point. So maybe not using a bag to put the rice in, but something like a metal mesh container. Hans Van: Mgs Namens Max Heim Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2021 20:53 Aan: mglist Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Also feeds mice very well? -- Max Heim '66 MGB On Apr 29, 2021, at 11:46 AM, > > wrote: Rice absorbs moist very well! Cheers, Hans Van: Mgs > Namens Barrie Robinson Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2021 17:30 Aan: mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Absolutely - together with 2lbs of ham, a large cheese, peeled grapes and a partridge in a pear tree. To say nothing of a set of books, preferably Dickens! (well hell they must have something to read). But seriously if rice is your direction then it should be nasi biryani. I must stop wearing this clown's hat! Cheers Barrie On 4/29/2021 7:36 AM, h.duinhoven at planet.nl wrote: Have a bag full of rice placed in the car before have it hibernating. Funny Frank asked this. Frank and I have met in 2000, when I went to Boston. http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm Cheers, Hans 71 BGT -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Mgs Namens David F. Darby Verzonden: woensdag 28 april 2021 17:21 Aan: 'Frank Krajewski' ; Mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. David -----Original Message----- From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank Krajewski Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM To: Mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Mold I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. Frank Krajewski 1980 MGBLE 1991 Miata LE Sent from my iPad. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl _____ Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net -- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com Fri Apr 30 03:31:36 2021 From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 10:31:36 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Mold References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> <41cb65ab-7e59-c7f6-1b03-768019893f58@bell.net> <000901d73d27$ed998880$c8cc9980$@planet.nl> <003301d73d9f$3a412040$aec360c0$@planet.nl> Message-ID: <9C57ABAAB91A4ACCA7F875B42AC40838@paul> Or cat litter, but I suggest unused ... ----- Original Message ----- From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl To: 'Max Heim' ; 'mglist' Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mold There?s a point. So maybe not using a bag to put the rice in, but something like a metal mesh container. Hans Van: Mgs Namens Max Heim Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2021 20:53 Aan: mglist Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Also feeds mice very well? -- Max Heim '66 MGB On Apr 29, 2021, at 11:46 AM, wrote: Rice absorbs moist very well! Cheers, Hans Van: Mgs Namens Barrie Robinson Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2021 17:30 Aan: mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Absolutely - together with 2lbs of ham, a large cheese, peeled grapes and a partridge in a pear tree. To say nothing of a set of books, preferably Dickens! (well hell they must have something to read). But seriously if rice is your direction then it should be nasi biryani. I must stop wearing this clown's hat! Cheers Barrie On 4/29/2021 7:36 AM, h.duinhoven at planet.nl wrote: Have a bag full of rice placed in the car before have it hibernating. Funny Frank asked this. Frank and I have met in 2000, when I went to Boston.http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm Cheers, Hans 71 BGT -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----Van: Mgs Namens David F. DarbyVerzonden: woensdag 28 april 2021 17:21Aan: 'Frank Krajewski' ; Mgs at autox.team.netOnderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. David -----Original Message-----From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank KrajewskiSent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AMTo: Mgs at autox.team.netSubject: [Mgs] Mold I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car.Frank Krajewski1980 MGBLE1991 Miata LE Sent from my iPad._______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.netDonate: http://www.team.net/donate.htmlSuggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at ranteer.com Fri Apr 30 09:08:16 2021 From: dave at ranteer.com (dave) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 10:08:16 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> <41cb65ab-7e59-c7f6-1b03-768019893f58@bell.net> <000901d73d27$ed998880$c8cc9980$@planet.nl> Message-ID: <004a01d73dd2$a6451250$f2cf36f0$@ranteer.com> Years ago it was deemed incorrect to use rice in weddings because the birds would eat it, the rice would expand, and the birds would explode. Would this not also happen to mice? In which case we should spread it everywhere??? From: Mgs On Behalf Of Max Heim Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:53 PM To: mglist Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mold Also feeds mice very well? -- Max Heim '66 MGB On Apr 29, 2021, at 11:46 AM, > > wrote: Rice absorbs moist very well! Cheers, Hans Van: Mgs > Namens Barrie Robinson Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2021 17:30 Aan: mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Absolutely - together with 2lbs of ham, a large cheese, peeled grapes and a partridge in a pear tree. To say nothing of a set of books, preferably Dickens! (well hell they must have something to read). But seriously if rice is your direction then it should be nasi biryani. I must stop wearing this clown's hat! Cheers Barrie On 4/29/2021 7:36 AM, h.duinhoven at planet.nl wrote: Have a bag full of rice placed in the car before have it hibernating. Funny Frank asked this. Frank and I have met in 2000, when I went to Boston. http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm Cheers, Hans 71 BGT -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Mgs Namens David F. Darby Verzonden: woensdag 28 april 2021 17:21 Aan: 'Frank Krajewski' ; Mgs at autox.team.net Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. David -----Original Message----- From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank Krajewski Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM To: Mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Mold I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. Frank Krajewski 1980 MGBLE 1991 Miata LE Sent from my iPad. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl _____ Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mvheim at sonic.net Fri Apr 30 10:44:30 2021 From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 09:44:30 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Mold In-Reply-To: <004a01d73dd2$a6451250$f2cf36f0$@ranteer.com> References: <01f501d73c42$1266e400$3734ac00$@centurytel.net> <009401d73ceb$db28bc20$917a3460$@planet.nl> <41cb65ab-7e59-c7f6-1b03-768019893f58@bell.net> <000901d73d27$ed998880$c8cc9980$@planet.nl> <004a01d73dd2$a6451250$f2cf36f0$@ranteer.com> Message-ID: <4BB601AD-7C8D-4D76-9DB7-FC9E5A9A5442@sonic.net> I?m pretty sure it doesn?t actually work that way, or rice paddies wouldn?t need scarecrows, and barns wouldn?t need cats. Good thought, though. -- Max Heim '66 MGB > On Apr 30, 2021, at 8:08 AM, dave wrote: > > Years ago it was deemed incorrect to use rice in weddings because the birds would eat it, the rice would expand, and the birds would explode. Would this not also happen to mice? In which case we should spread it everywhere??? > > From: Mgs On Behalf Of Max Heim > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:53 PM > To: mglist > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mold > > Also feeds mice very well? > > -- > Max Heim > '66 MGB > > >> On Apr 29, 2021, at 11:46 AM, > > wrote: >> >> Rice absorbs moist very well! >> >> Cheers, >> Hans >> >> Van: Mgs > Namens Barrie Robinson >> Verzonden: donderdag 29 april 2021 17:30 >> Aan: mgs at autox.team.net >> Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold >> >> Absolutely - together with 2lbs of ham, a large cheese, peeled grapes and a partridge in a pear tree. To say nothing of a set of books, preferably Dickens! (well hell they must have something to read). But seriously if rice is your direction then it should be nasi biryani. >> >> I must stop wearing this clown's hat! >> >> Cheers >> Barrie >> >> >> >> On 4/29/2021 7:36 AM, h.duinhoven at planet.nl wrote: >>> Have a bag full of rice placed in the car before have it hibernating. >>> >>> Funny Frank asked this. Frank and I have met in 2000, when I went to Boston. >>> http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/hans_across_the_water.htm >>> >>> Cheers, Hans >>> 71 BGT >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: Mgs Namens David F. Darby >>> Verzonden: woensdag 28 april 2021 17:21 >>> Aan: 'Frank Krajewski' ; Mgs at autox.team.net >>> Onderwerp: Re: [Mgs] Mold >>> >>> Ventilation and maybe a dehumidifier. >>> >>> David >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net ] On Behalf Of Frank >>>> Krajewski >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM >>>> To: Mgs at autox.team.net >>>> Subject: [Mgs] Mold >>>> >>>> I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late >>>> September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it >>>> until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I >>>> took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill >>>> Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor >>>> work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said >>>> he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since >>>> then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white >>>> vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there >>>> something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this >>>> from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I >>>> am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised to thoroughly clean and demold the car. >>>> Frank Krajewski >>>> 1980 MGBLE >>>> 1991 Miata LE >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Mgs at autox.team.net >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation >>>> $12.75 >>>> >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs >>>> http://autox.team.net/archive >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ddarby at centurytel.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Mgs at autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >>> >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >>> >>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/h.duinhoven at planet.nl >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Dit e-mailbericht is gecontroleerd op virussen met Avast antivirussoftware. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net > > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim at sonic.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mogrits at gmail.com Fri Apr 30 15:16:24 2021 From: mogrits at gmail.com (Mogrits) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:16:24 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 167, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > om: Mgs [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Frank > Krajewski > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 10:12 AM > To: Mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Mold > > I keep my 1980 MGB LE stored and covered in my sop from about late > September to now. I live in Rhode island and can?t risk driving it > until the rain has washed away all the salt on the roads. This year I > took it to Bassett?s Jaguar, just down the road from me as I know Bill > Bassett and he has helped me out in the past. It needed some minor > work which he was going to do. Bill called me later tat day and said > he couldn?t touch the car due to extensive mold everywhere. Since > then I have embarked on an extensive mold removal effort using white > vinegar and several commercially available products. Is there > something more I should be doing and is there some way to prevent this > from happening in the future other than leaving the car uncovered? I > am even having it professionally detailed next week. The detailer promised > to thoroughly clean and demold the car. > Frank Krajewski > Frank, I've used one of these in a boat cabin with great success: https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Breeze-Electric-Dehumidifier-Portable/dp/B01DC5PPWM/ref=sxin_9?asc_contentid=amzn1.osa.bec4a016-554b-404b-a2c3-fdf8ca174fe2.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&asc_contenttype=article&ascsubtag=amzn1.osa.bec4a016-554b-404b-a2c3-fdf8ca174fe2.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&creativeASIN=B01DC5PPWM&crid=4801MPLFETA0&cv_ct_cx=ivation+dehumidifier&cv_ct_id=amzn1.osa.bec4a016-554b-404b-a2c3-fdf8ca174fe2.ATVPDKIKX0DER.en_US&cv_ct_pg=search&cv_ct_we=asin&cv_ct_wn=osp-single-source-earns-comm&dchild=1&keywords=ivation+dehumidifier&linkCode=oas&pd_rd_i=B01DC5PPWM&pd_rd_r=4d3368cd-13dd-4508-8691-8b0d937e8a57&pd_rd_w=FlR6z&pd_rd_wg=Lt98Q&pf_rd_p=c5aa77b7-f0ac-4b95-b207-5ef230c60c9b&pf_rd_r=X63VVB7GXS0C89SA7A0R&qid=1619817188&sprefix=ivation+dehumifi%2Caps%2C190&sr=1-2-64f3a41a-73ca-403a-923c-8152c45485fe&tag=21oak-20 Drill a hole in the reservoir and install a barbed fitting and some hose. Sit the dehumidifier on the dash and run the hose out the vent window down to the floor and away from the car and it can run the entire storage period with no maintenance. Hope it works as well for you as it does for me, Warren -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: