[Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 suspension issues

Fri Jul 3 16:17:23 MDT 2015

The car’s been running for years. What started all of this is at high highway speeds, I’d get a bit of shimmy and knocking. In the Land Rover West Coast list, I got infected with Nigel’s disease, whereby if I have a problem and go to fix it, another problem presents itself ad infinitum. So I took the knock off wire wheels off and bought a complete suspension kit from Moss. To put some of the new parts on, I had to remove the hub (specifically for the new oil seal). In doing that, one hub came off with both bearings attached to the hub with the spacer inside flopping around. This is the side the machinist pressed the bearings in until the hit the “supposed” shoulder inside the hub. After he was done, the inner spacer still flopped around. The other hub came off with the inner bearing staying with the spindle. He started to press this inner bearing back in, but it was sloppy and kind of slipped in, and therefore I have to buy a new hub and bits. The manual says that the bearing may not come out with the hub. It also says that the bearings shouldn’t be removed unless absolutely necessary as it causes wear as the bearing come in and out. In the process, I found that neither front brake caliper seemed to work: the pistons wouldn’t move manually and trying to move them deeper was too difficult. The whole cylinder looked kind of welded to the piston, the disk looked like it hadn’t seen action on either side. I then also measured the thickness and it is under spec, so new parts all around for brakes. Then the top and bottom swivels weren’t wide enough, when trying to press out those bearing, so let’s buy some really expensive swivels. Nigel’s disease: find one problem and then find more, and more…

Clayton

From: Max Heim [mailto:mvheim at sonic.net] 
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2015 1:03 PM
To: crk at godblessthe.us
Subject: Re: [Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 suspension issues

I have to concur with your lack of confidence in this machinist. But I’m struck by the fact that the problem manifests differently on either side. That’s why I asked if you might possibly have mismatched parts. Was this a running car? What was the symptom that made you disassemble the hubs?

--

Max Heim

'66 MGB GHN3L76149

If you're near Menlo Park, CA,

it's the primer red one with chrome wires

And now 67 MGB GHN3U137949G

Old English White, off-premises for restoration

On Jul 3, 2015, at 12:23 PM, Clayton Kirkwood <crk at godblessthe.us <mailto:crk at godblessthe.us> > wrote:

I took both sides in to the machinist; one side had a bearing in but the other bearing came out along with the then free inner spacer with the chamfered end. The other hub came out intact, but the inner spacer was flopping around between the bearings. The first hub, he pressed the bearings back in fully to the shoulder, so he says, but the inner spacer was still floppy inside. On the second hub, he inserted the inner spacer and then tried to press in the free bearing but it wasn’t snug: the bearing was easily slipping in and out of the hub. He said this hub needed to be completely replaced. I don’t have the greatest confidence in this guy, I don’t know if he tried to press this second bearing in all the way where it may be snug, or he may have just inserted the bearing into the hub and initially it was loose and he assumed pressing the bearing in all the way would still be loose. Since this bearing came out when I removed the hub from the spindle, I think it reasonable that it wasn’t going to be tight all the way in on the spindle, otherwise, it would have stayed in the hub.

So one side the bearing won’t go up tight to the inner spacer, and the second side’s bearing won’t press in tight in the hub.

crk

From: Max Heim [mailto:mvheim at sonic.net] 
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2015 12:00 PM
To: crk at godblessthe.us <mailto:crk at godblessthe.us> 
Subject: Re: [Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 suspension issues

You mention a second spindle. Are you saying that this problem only exists on one side?

--

Max Heim

'66 MGB GHN3L76149

If you're near Menlo Park, CA,

it's the primer red one with chrome wires

And now 67 MGB GHN3U137949G

Old English White, off-premises for restoration

On Jul 3, 2015, at 11:40 AM, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs < <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net> mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

I have all of the pieces. The relevant pieces are the hub, inner spacer, and two bearings, no shims. The hub is supposed to have shoulders so the bearings are limited to how far they go in. What has been discussed in the past is that the bearings should bind against the inner spacer, therefore before one or both of the bearing are seated against the hub inner shoulders. The machinist says he pressed the bearing until he hit the shoulders. Therefore, the inner spacer is flopping around inside with tons of endplay.

crk

From: Charley & Peggy Robinson [ <mailto:ccrobins at ktc.com> mailto:ccrobins at ktc.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2015 11:25 AM
To:  <mailto:crk at godblessthe.us> crk at godblessthe.us;  <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net> mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 suspension issues

You might want to look at the KK.3 parts exploded view to see if you have all the parts in your hubs.

CR

On 7/3/2015 11:55 AM, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs wrote:

I believe there are no shims on the MGA like there are on the MGB, according to a previous post from someone. I’ve got the manual and I didn’t see anything about shims. The slop on that inner spacer is around 3/8 inch, unlikely such a large shim requirement.

Clayton

From: Charley & Peggy Robinson [ <mailto:ccrobins at ktc.com> mailto:ccrobins at ktc.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2015 9:12 AM
To:  <mailto:crk at godblessthe.us> crk at godblessthe.us;  <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net> mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] follow up on mga 1622 suspension issues

Sounds like you've left the shims out.  The end play of the bearings is set by the thickness of the shims between the bearings and the spacer.  The more shim thickness, the less end play and vice-versa.  The shims come in various thicknesses, you select the thicknesses to combine i order to arrive at the proper end play.

Suggest you buy the factory shop manual and read up on it.

CR

On 7/2/2015 2:50 PM, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs wrote:

Returning to our story…. The consensus for the wire wheel hubs was that the inner and outer bearings were to tightly crimp the single-chamfered spacer between them by pressing the bearings in. That makes the three pieces essentially one, strengthing the three into one, eliminating any side forces on the bearings. I took my two spindles and associated bearings and center spacer to the machine shop. Guy says that the outer bearing was loose in its proper placement and I agree. He said the solution was a new spindle and bearings. Ok. The second spindle, however, is a different story: he pressed the two bearing in to their limit shoulders and the inner spacer still was flopping around inside, absolutely not crimped in place. He and I don’t understand this problem. Any insight??? There is a quarter inch thick spacer that I read as being outside of the bearings. Or is this supposed to be inside??

At this point, it looks like I will be ordering both spindle and bearings. Fortunately, Moss has the parts on sale:<)++++

TIA,

Clayton

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