[Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??

Barney Gaylord barneymg at mgaguru.com
Tue Jan 29 19:16:11 MST 2013


I try not to get involved in religious wars, but I am coming to 
Paul's support here with considerable experience of my own.  I have 
build a number of MGA engines using a Crane Fast Street Cam (with a 
bit of extra lift), Heavy Duty valve springs (more than stock spring 
force), short tappets and long pushrods from the 18V engine, and 
sometimes alloy spring caps (but not always).  A couple of these 
engine I have done for other people, and no complaints from them.  A 
couple of these engine I have run in my own car.  I nearly always 
drive it like I stole it.  I have done lots of competition work in 
SCCA autocross events (and some local club events).   In short, it is 
an uprated engine driven by a heavy foot, sometimes at 7,000 rpm 
during competition.

For build it gets lots of standard grease on the cam and tappets 
(although I would go along with the cam lube recommended by the cam 
manufacturer).  For first run and break in the engine runs 2500 rpm 
for 20 minutes with no load (to run in the tappets).  After re-torque 
it can go racing, right out of the box, although it may take up to 
500 miles for the rings and cylinder walls to loosen up.  I use 20W50 
oil for the break in, change it at 500 miles, then run 20W50 in warm 
weather and 10W40 for a considerable amount of winter driving.  I use 
almost exclusively NAPA brand oil which I think is made by Valvoline, 
nothing special, just regular street car engine oil.  I change oil 
and filter at 4000 mile intervals.

The engine currently in my car now has 88,000 miles, running like a 
champ, and very good cam and tappets.  I have never used any special 
additive in the oil (accent on no additional ZDDP), and I don't 
intend to do so.  I'm sure most of the hype about ZDDP additives is 
over blown and unnecessary.  I'm also sure most of the discussion and 
concern for lowered ZDDP content in modern motor oil is a waste of 
concern (although I wouldn't chastise anyone for adding ZDDP to the 
oil for the break in period of a new engine if it makes them feel good).

I do believe that success and long life of a new cam and flat tappets 
depends greatly on quality of the parts.  I would never trust a 
reground cam to be properly hardened, and I would exercise proper 
concern for procuring good quality tappets with adequate hardness.  I 
firmly believe that most (if not all) of reported premature cam 
failures are a result of sub-standard parts or improper installation, 
and none of it has anything to do with lowered amount of ZDDP in modern oil.

All comments are welcome, as I stand resolutely with Teflon coating 
and asbestos underwear.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude (and 400,000 miles)
http://MGAguru.com


At 04:01 PM 1/29/2013 -0800, Max Heim wrote:
>I just want to point out two things:
>
>- You apparently don't drive very hard.
>
>- You have a low-compression motor.
>
>Higher-performance models used for rallies and track days may have a
>completely different experience.
>
>As they say, YMMV...
>....


>on 1/29/13 3:46 PM, Paul Osborne at paul at ece.rochester.edu wrote:
> > Ok, here we go . I'm going to be the wrench in the works. 6 years 
> ago I fully
> > rebuilt an 18V engine and placed it service in my 74 BGT. This is a daily
> > driver, no show car here , nice but a driver.
> > The clock reads 72000miles. since that time I have done the 
> regular maintance
> > , a set of brakes and tires . Now I drive about 500miles to my cottage all
> > most 3 times a month from may to oct.
> > I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing but running
> > well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it may
> > help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
> > I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my cars.
> > ....


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