From ccrobins at ktc.com  Wed Jan  2 13:35:41 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:35:41 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
Message-ID: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>

Something wrong with the list or is there no traffic?

CR

From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  2 15:10:54 2013
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 14:10:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
In-Reply-To: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>
References: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Lack of traffic, I guess. Plenty on the Yahoo group, though.

Dan D
'76 B
'65
B
Central NJ USA




________________________________
 From: Charley & Peggy
Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com>
To: "mgs at Autox.Team.Net" <mgs at Autox.Team.Net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:35 PM
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
 
Something
wrong with the list or is there no traffic?

CR
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate:
http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive:
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Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
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From schultejim at msn.com  Wed Jan  2 17:38:28 2013
From: schultejim at msn.com (James Schulte)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 19:38:28 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
In-Reply-To: <1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>,
	<1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>

Dan,Just received my big parts order from LBC for my new acquisition a 1974.5
MGBGT. I now have all the foam needed to finish the seats. I also received the
backorder from Moss to cover the back seat with Autumn Leaf like the front
that came 3 weeks ago. The car is at Rakafish LLC getting body work done. I
hope to have "Skinner" back by late February or early March to finish the
interior and start my other plans for it. They include lowering it 1" front
and back. Replacing the Webber carb with SU's as original, and an overdrive.
We'll see how the money holds out as the body and metal is estimated to be
$4000.00. Not sure about the paint yet. But, I am hoping to paint it Teal
Blue. That will be decided when the Heritage Certificate shows
up.JimHarleysville, PA1970 MGB running1958 Magnette ZB running1974.5 MGBGT
under restoration
 > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 14:10:54 -0800
> From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com
> To: ccrobins at ktc.com; mgs at Autox.Team.Net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Wassup?
>
> Lack of traffic, I guess. Plenty on the Yahoo group, though.
>
> Dan D
> '76 B
> '65
> B
> Central NJ USA
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Charley & Peggy
> Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com>
> To: "mgs at Autox.Team.Net" <mgs at Autox.Team.Net>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:35 PM
> Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
>
> Something
> wrong with the list or is there no traffic?
>
> CR
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate:
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive:
> http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/schultejim at msn.com

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Wed Jan  2 13:34:09 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:34:09 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
Message-ID: <50E499C1.8000009@ktc.com>

Something wrong with the list or is there no traffic?

CR

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  2 21:19:59 2013
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 20:19:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
In-Reply-To: <50E499C1.8000009@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <1357186799.80791.YahooMailClassic@web163901.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Ketchup?

From shop at justbrits.com  Wed Jan  2 23:15:29 2013
From: shop at justbrits.com (" Just Brits " Shop)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 00:15:29 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
In-Reply-To: <1357186799.80791.YahooMailClassic@web163901.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1357186799.80791.YahooMailClassic@web163901.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50E52201.2010401@justbrits.com>

<< On 1/2/2013 10:19 PM, David Breneman wrote:

Ketchup?  >>

No Dan, musta ...............

Oh wait, different List ! ! !

Sorry.

Anon

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Thu Jan  3 01:52:35 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 08:52:35 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
References: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>,
	<1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6293A2101A544800AABA1E4CFFB7A5DE@paul>

Good luck with the foams.  I've been in a GT with new foams and my head was 
brushing the roof, I've heard of other people not being able to get their 
legs under the steering wheel, the only solution seems to be to cut about an 
inch off the bottom.  I've just had a copy of Don Hayter's 'The MGB Story' 
which makes interesting reading coming as it does from someone who was there 
from before the MGB to the close down.  He says they spent a very long time 
experimenting with the foam manufacturer with various densities and 
thicknesses before they came up with the right formula.  If the foams we get 
nowadays are from a different source, as I suspect, I very much doubt they 
took as much trouble.

I say interesting, and also amusing.  Don relates how the MGB was the first 
body they dip-primed, and he spent some time designing in the holes to let 
the air out at the top and the paint out at the bottom (those peculiar holes 
in the floor pan for one).  However they only dipped up to the level of the 
shelf in the engine bay, which meant hand-feathering in the edge before 
hand-spraying the top part.  So ICI suggested dipping it completely (I can't 
imagine why they didn't do that in the first place), and they all stood 
round while the first shell went in.  Unfortunately enough air got trapped 
to lift the body off the hooks, and it gracefully floated off down the tank 
and sunk.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> ... I now have all the foam needed to finish the seats. 

From mgbob at juno.com  Thu Jan  3 05:37:47 2013
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 12:37:47 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
Message-ID: <20130103.073747.10579.2@webmail-beta01.vgs.untd.com>

  The sagging old foams in my '72 GT needed replacement. Spring, 2012, I
installed Moss foams. Instruction I read somewhere suggested trimming one inch
from seat foam, if needed, though not how to determine "if  needed".
   Moss may buy from different suppliers, as our club members have had
different experiences.
   Seat bottoms are higher than before, perhaps 1/2 inch, which is fine for me
(5'11", 150 lbs), but a taller or lighter driver would want to cut them down a
bit.
   The great improvement is that the seats are now firm. The old rubber had
the support of bread dough, and one did not feel connected to the seat
regardless of seat belt tension.
  Seat bottom foams are easy to replace.
Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "PaulHunt73" <paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com>
To: "James Schulte" <schultejim at msn.com>, <d_dibiase at yahoo.com>,
"Mgs at autox.team.net" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Wassup?
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 08:52:35 -0000

Good luck with the foams.  I've been in a GT with new foams and my head was
brushing the roof, I've heard of other people not being able to get their
legs under the steering wheel, the only solution seems to be to cut about an
inch off the bottom.  I've just had a copy of Don Hayter's 'The MGB Story'
which makes interesting reading coming as it does from someone who was there
from before the MGB to the close down.  He says they spent a very long time
experimenting with the foam manufacturer with various densities and
thicknesses before they came up with the right formula.  If the foams we get
nowadays are from a different source, as I suspect, I very much doubt they
took as much trouble.

I say interesting, and also amusing.  Don relates how the MGB was the first
body they dip-primed, and he spent some time designing in the holes to let
the air out at the top and the paint out at the bottom (those peculiar holes
in the floor pan for one).  However they only dipped up to the level of the
shelf in the engine bay, which meant hand-feathering in the edge before
hand-spraying the top part.  So ICI suggested dipping it completely (I can't
imagine why they didn't do that in the first place), and they all stood
round while the first shell went in.  Unfortunately enough air got trapped
to lift the body off the hooks, and it gracefully floated off down the tank
and sunk.

PaulH.

----- Original Message -----
> ... I now have all the foam needed to finish the seats.
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From aekell at aol.com  Thu Jan  3 05:47:15 2013
From: aekell at aol.com (Alan Kellogg)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:47:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mgs] Foam:
In-Reply-To: <6293A2101A544800AABA1E4CFFB7A5DE@paul>
References: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>,
	<1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>
	<6293A2101A544800AABA1E4CFFB7A5DE@paul>
Message-ID: <8CFB7C797E19AF6-BA0-BBC@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com>

Yeah but if you remove an inch the foam won't fill the cover completely.  For
my MGA, the existing, may or may not have been originalseat cushion, had some
approx 2 inch holes cut through.  I repeated the pattern in the replacement
which lowered the loaded cushion nicely.
  Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: PaulHunt73 <paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com>
To: James Schulte <schultejim at msn.com>; d_dibiase <d_dibiase at yahoo.com>;
Mgs at autox.team.net <mgs at a utox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, Jan 3, 2013 4:14 am
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Wassup?


Good luck with the foams.  I've been in a GT with new foams and my head was
brushing the roof, I've heard of other people not being able to get their
legs under the steering wheel, the only solution seems to be to cut about an
inch off the bottom. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  3 06:49:11 2013
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike E)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 08:49:11 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
In-Reply-To: <BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>
References: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>, ,
	<1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>,
	<BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W61CC450B922A28A4591B5EB7210@phx.gbl>

"Replacing the Webber carb with SU's as original,"Yay!  I'll never understand
the desire to tear off a set of SUs and replace them with a Weber.  As a
stop-gap while your SUs are being rebuilt, sure.
I have two that came with Weber's, and I'll be doing the same as you.

> From: schultejim at msn.com
> To: d_dibiase at yahoo.com; mgs at autox.team.net
> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 19:38:28 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Wassup?
>
> Dan,Just received my big parts order from LBC for my new acquisition a
1974.5
> MGBGT. I now have all the foam needed to finish the seats. I also received
the
> backorder from Moss to cover the back seat with Autumn Leaf like the front
> that came 3 weeks ago. The car is at Rakafish LLC getting body work done. I
> hope to have "Skinner" back by late February or early March to finish the
> interior and start my other plans for it. They include lowering it 1" front
> and back. Replacing the Webber carb with SU's as original, and an
overdrive.
> We'll see how the money holds out as the body and metal is estimated to be
> $4000.00. Not sure about the paint yet. But, I am hoping to paint it Teal
> Blue. That will be decided when the Heritage Certificate shows
> up.JimHarleysville, PA1970 MGB running1958 Magnette ZB running1974.5 MGBGT
> under restoration
>  > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 14:10:54 -0800
> > From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com
> > To: ccrobins at ktc.com; mgs at Autox.Team.Net
> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Wassup?
> >
> > Lack of traffic, I guess. Plenty on the Yahoo group, though.
> >
> > Dan D
> > '76 B
> > '65
> > B
> > Central NJ USA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Charley & Peggy
> > Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com>
> > To: "mgs at Autox.Team.Net" <mgs at Autox.Team.Net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:35 PM
> > Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
> >
> > Something
> > wrong with the list or is there no traffic?
> >
> > CR
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate:
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive:
> > http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe:
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/schultejim at msn.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From barrie at look.ca  Thu Jan  3 08:09:01 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 10:09:01 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
In-Reply-To: <BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>
References: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>
	<1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E1TqmPm-0007D7-QR@alpha.look.ca>

Just thought I would add my experiences.  I had my MGB GT seats done 
up by a local craftsman and he put in the memory foam I was given by 
a local mattress manufacturer - again locally.   The result is 
fantastic and now I know why commercial airplane pilots seats are 
built that way !!!!!


At 07:38 PM 02/01/2013 -0500, James Schulte wrote:
>Dan,Just received my big parts order from LBC for my new acquisition a 1974.5
>MGBGT. I now have all the foam needed to finish the seats. I also received the
>backorder from Moss to cover the back seat with Autumn Leaf like the front
>that came 3 weeks ago. The car is at Rakafish LLC getting body work done. I
>hope to have "Skinner" back by late February or early March to finish the
>interior and start my other plans for it. They include lowering it 1" front
>and back. Replacing the Webber carb with SU's as original, and an overdrive.
>We'll see how the money holds out as the body and metal is estimated to be
>$4000.00. Not sure about the paint yet. But, I am hoping to paint it Teal
>Blue. That will be decided when the Heritage Certificate shows
>up.JimHarleysville, PA1970 MGB running1958 Magnette ZB running1974.5 MGBGT
>under restoration
>  > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 14:10:54 -0800
> > From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com
> > To: ccrobins at ktc.com; mgs at Autox.Team.Net
> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Wassup?
> >
> > Lack of traffic, I guess. Plenty on the Yahoo group, though.
> >
> > Dan D
> > '76 B
> > '65
> > B
> > Central NJ USA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Charley & Peggy
> > Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com>
> > To: "mgs at Autox.Team.Net" <mgs at Autox.Team.Net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 3:35 PM
> > Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
> >
> > Something
> > wrong with the list or is there no traffic?
> >
> > CR
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate:
> > http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive:
> > http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe:
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/schultejim at msn.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Thu Jan  3 09:54:42 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:54:42 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Wassup?
References: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com><1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>
	<E1TqmPm-0007D7-QR@alpha.look.ca>
Message-ID: <7FF0AF76CB02476F84200C6F85C051EE@paul>

Also explains why pilots sometimes fall asleep at the wheel ...

----- Original Message ----- 
> Just thought I would add my experiences.  I had my MGB GT seats done 
> up by a local craftsman and he put in the memory foam I was given by 
> a local mattress manufacturer - again locally.   The result is 
> fantastic and now I know why commercial airplane pilots seats are 
> built that way !!!!!

From barrie at look.ca  Thu Jan  3 14:43:09 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:43:09 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Gasket stuff
Message-ID: <E1TqsZB-00045g-7Z@iota.look.ca>

I have to make all sorts of gaskets for my being-restored motor 
car.  What is the best stuff to use?   Overkill is fine so I want the 
very best.    Canadian Tyre offers cork/rubber which looks 
traditional, and composite stuff that looks like leather

Regards,

Barrie Robinson
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060
MGB GT V8  in great nick
Aston Martin 1957 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration
www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
www.britcot.com
www.AMFClub.com

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Jan  3 14:58:17 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:58:17 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Gasket stuff
In-Reply-To: <E1TqsZB-00045g-7Z@iota.look.ca>
Message-ID: <CD0B3EF9.423CB%mvheim@sonic.net>

I am sure those are fine for some applications. But there are also thinner
gaskets, for which various weights of gasket paper are available.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 1/3/13 1:43 PM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote:

> I have to make all sorts of gaskets for my being-restored motor
> car.  What is the best stuff to use?   Overkill is fine so I want the
> very best.    Canadian Tyre offers cork/rubber which looks
> traditional, and composite stuff that looks like leather
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Barrie Robinson
> barrie at look.ca
> 705-721-9060
> MGB GT V8  in great nick
> Aston Martin 1957 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration
> www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
> www.britcot.com
> www.AMFClub.com

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 15:42:00 2013
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:42:00 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Gasket stuff
In-Reply-To: <CD0B3EF9.423CB%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <CD0B3EF9.423CB%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3AC6F915-8CDA-4B42-AC77-CE8A7B722382@gmail.com>

I seem to remember John Twist (University Motors) making a gasket out of
grocery bags.

I don't think that qualifies as the best though. :-)

I'm guessing this is for the DB 2/4?



On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:58 PM, Max Heim wrote:

> I am sure those are fine for some applications. But there are also thinner
> gaskets, for which various weights of gasket paper are available.
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>
> on 1/3/13 1:43 PM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote:
>
>> I have to make all sorts of gaskets for my being-restored motor
>> car.  What is the best stuff to use?   Overkill is fine so I want the
>> very best.    Canadian Tyre offers cork/rubber which looks
>> traditional, and composite stuff that looks like leather
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Barrie Robinson
>> barrie at look.ca
>> 705-721-9060
>> MGB GT V8  in great nick
>> Aston Martin 1957 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration
>> www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
>> www.britcot.com
>> www.AMFClub.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Thu Jan  3 16:25:08 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 17:25:08 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Gasket stuff
In-Reply-To: <3AC6F915-8CDA-4B42-AC77-CE8A7B722382@gmail.com>
References: <CD0B3EF9.423CB%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<3AC6F915-8CDA-4B42-AC77-CE8A7B722382@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50E61354.7040500@ktc.com>

I made one out of a cereal box for the accessory drive cover for a 
Corvair flat 6 in a pinch.  I was out in the desert near the Four 
Corners when the old gasket blew out.  There was oil all over the 
place!  Er, except in the sump. :-)    That was the only time I was 
gratified by the Corvair heater system design.

I think Barry's best bet is to pay careful attention to what kind of 
gasket material used for each assembly whilst taking things apart.

CR
On 1/3/2013 4:42 PM, Paul Root wrote:
> I seem to remember John Twist (University Motors) making a gasket out of
> grocery bags.
>
> I don't think that qualifies as the best though. :-)
>
> I'm guessing this is for the DB 2/4?
>
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 3:58 PM, Max Heim wrote:
>
>> I am sure those are fine for some applications. But there are also thinner
>> gaskets, for which various weights of gasket paper are available.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
>> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
>> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>>
>>
>> on 1/3/13 1:43 PM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote:
>>
>>> I have to make all sorts of gaskets for my being-restored motor
>>> car.  What is the best stuff to use?   Overkill is fine so I want the
>>> very best.    Canadian Tyre offers cork/rubber which looks
>>> traditional, and composite stuff that looks like leather
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Barrie Robinson
>>> barrie at look.ca
>>> 705-721-9060
>>> MGB GT V8  in great nick
>>> Aston Martin 1957 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration
>>> www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
>>> www.britcot.com
>>> www.AMFClub.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From mark at bradakis.com  Thu Jan  3 16:46:45 2013
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:46:45 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Gasket stuff
In-Reply-To: <50E61354.7040500@ktc.com>
References: <CD0B3EF9.423CB%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<3AC6F915-8CDA-4B42-AC77-CE8A7B722382@gmail.com>
	<50E61354.7040500@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <50E61865.70604@bradakis.com>

The Right Stuff from Permatex - expensive but it works.

mjb.

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Fri Jan  4 03:08:19 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 10:08:19 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Foam:
References: <50E49A1D.9070903@ktc.com>,
	<1357164654.16815.YahooMailNeo@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><BAY157-W31F66A206E77C2FF8EFA8EDB210@phx.gbl>
	<6293A2101A544800AABA1E4CFFB7A5DE@paul>
	<8CFB7C797E19AF6-BA0-BBC@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <0C57771271F148EE936548FB76A2D40C@paul>

Standard procedure is to pull the sides down to remove all the slack.

PaulH.
  ----- Original Message -----
  Yeah but if you remove an inch the foam won't fill the cover completely.

From mgbob at juno.com  Fri Jan  4 07:23:13 2013
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 14:23:13 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Foam:
Message-ID: <20130104.092313.13623.2@webmail-beta03.vgs.untd.com>

   The seat foam is set on the diaphragm or straps, then the cover is pulled
over the foam and the sides wrapped under the frame tubing.
  The sides are then fastened onto the frame tubing with spring clips that are
easy to install and only mildly difficult to remove. MGs did not use those
evil hog-ring clips that puncture the fabric.  There are 20-22 of these spring
clips per seat bottom, so the material cam be tensioned and adjusted
perfectly.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "PaulHunt73" <paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com>
To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Foam:
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 10:08:19 -0000

Standard procedure is to pull the sides down to remove all the slack.

PaulH.
  ----- Original Message -----
  Yeah but if you remove an inch the foam won't fill the cover completely.
_______________________________________________

From barrie at look.ca  Fri Jan  4 09:33:52 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 11:33:52 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Gasket stuff
In-Reply-To: <50E61865.70604@bradakis.com>
References: <CD0B3EF9.423CB%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<3AC6F915-8CDA-4B42-AC77-CE8A7B722382@gmail.com>
	<50E61354.7040500@ktc.com> <50E61865.70604@bradakis.com>
Message-ID: <E1TrCV3-0006qG-Vb@gamma.look.ca>

Mark,

Thanks for the info.  I looked at the site and I see it is a goop 
sort of stuff.   Unfortunately I have to have an easily removable 
gasket as one tends to have to fit, then unfit, then fit again 
because some things require that, and I also (you may not believe 
this) make mistakes!  The head, for instance, sometimes requires it 
coming off, changing he shims under the cylinder liner and 
re-torquing down, then taking off the head again to check that the 
liner is EXACTLY 1mm proud !  Thank heavens this is already 
done.   The W.O. Bentley designed Aston 3L engine is a pig - but once 
together is brilliant.   So I have to get soe sheet type material and 
seems I will need a couple of differenr thicknesses and materials.

Can you tell me how many people are in the Aston Martin list 
please?  Can I give you a whole pile of email addresses to add?  I 
was thinking of getting the members of the Aston Martin Feltham Club 
to join (73 so far) see www.AMFClub.com.



At 04:46 PM 1/3/2013 -0700, Mark J Bradakis wrote:
>The Right Stuff from Permatex - expensive but it works.
>
>mjb.
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From barrie at look.ca  Fri Jan  4 09:00:00 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 11:00:00 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] [Mgb-v8] Gasket stuff
In-Reply-To: <0193D586D853DD4A9175FBA28049389892956BBD@G4W3205.americas.
	hpqcorp.net>
References: <E1TqsZB-00045g-7Z@iota.look.ca>
	<0193D586D853DD4A9175FBA28049389892956BBD@G4W3205.americas.hpqcorp.net>
Message-ID: <E1TrCV3-0006qG-IG@gamma.look.ca>

Thanks Rob,


I rather think that one gasket material fits all is not right - so I 
will buy the various types for various uses !!   Thanks, you made me think !!!





At 09:54 PM 1/3/2013 +0000, Ficalora, Robert wrote:
>Depends where the gaskets are going... A good auto-parts store 
>(around here that'd be a Carquest or NAPA) will have a selection of 
>different gasket materials.  As an example, for fuel tank (e.g., 
>sender opening) you'll want to use something like natural cork (not 
>rubberized) or maybe Karropak (which is a fiber material) because 
>the gas - especially if it has a lot of ethanol like we do here in 
>TX will attack rubber.  For other areas, rubber fiber or rubberized 
>cork would be ok.
>
>Rob
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mgb-v8-bounces at autox.team.net 
>[mailto:mgb-v8-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barrie Robinson
>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 3:43 PM
>To: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net; mgs at autox.team.net
>Subject: [Mgb-v8] Gasket stuff
>
>I have to make all sorts of gaskets for my being-restored motor
>car.  What is the best stuff to use?   Overkill is fine so I want the
>very best.    Canadian Tyre offers cork/rubber which looks
>traditional, and composite stuff that looks like leather
>
>Regards,
>
>Barrie Robinson
>barrie at look.ca
>705-721-9060
>MGB GT V8  in great nick
>Aston Martin 1957 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration 
>www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm
>www.britcot.com
>www.AMFClub.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgb-v8 at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $11.47
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgb-v8/robert.ficalora at hp.com

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Sat Jan  5 21:06:23 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:06:23 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
Message-ID: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>

Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?   I
have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and if
I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.

Suggestions?

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan  5 21:21:48 2013
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 22:21:48 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
In-Reply-To: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>
References: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <50E8FBDC.6070806@sbcglobal.net>

I'm not sure that Locktite will hold up to the heat inside the engine.  
In the situation you describe some people will sand the mating surface 
of the nut to get the holes to line up.  I'm not sure I would want to do 
that to the main cap nuts though.  You might try swapping them around to 
see if it makes a difference.

Regards,
Charles Hill

On 1/5/2013 10:06 PM, Duvall Video Productions wrote:
> Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?   I
> have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
> line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and if
> I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>
> Suggestions?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/chillmog at sbcglobal.net

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 21:41:57 2013
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 20:41:57 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
In-Reply-To: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>
References: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <CACOF-Tq1J5YDvM5Zj+1cG+xu0j2JOQ2sH7uH40r9kV-F4=ubiA@mail.gmail.com>

I would not use red.  When properly applied red is stronger than the thread
it is applied to.  Properly applied and cured red Loctite will strip the
male threads right off a stud/bolt.  I've done this trying to unscrew TR7
head studs  Double nutted them, no good.  Cleaned everything up, used
Loctite primer and red loctite.  Spun the threads right off the head stud,
which didn't budge.
Use green, it is better suited for this use.  Some car makers specified
green for use on rod cap and main nuts.
As far as temperature goes loctite is good to 450F at which point it turns
to powder.  This should not be an issue for a main stud.
Rick


On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:06 PM, Duvall Video Productions <
mike at duvallvideo.com> wrote:

> Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?
> I
> have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
> line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and
> if
> I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>
> Suggestions?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Sun Jan  6 04:10:07 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 11:10:07 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
References: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <2F52EB4F09CD45FDA841783DA718B824@paul>

Shims under the nuts?

----- Original Message ----- 
> ... when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
> line up to the castle nuts for the wire.

From mgbob at juno.com  Sun Jan  6 12:37:01 2013
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:37:01 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
Message-ID: <20130106.143701.15815.3@webmail-beta01.vgs.untd.com>

  Have you tried swapping the nuts to different bolts?
  If, after finding nearest fit, a couple do not quite align at acceptable
torque, rubbing the nut a couple of strokes on abrasive paper can give the
additional turn needed.
  Shims could be used, but they would be tiny pieces of metal, the integrity
of which could not be seen once nuts are torqued, inside the engine.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Duvall Video Productions <mike at duvallvideo.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:06:23 -0600

Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?   I
have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and if
I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.

Suggestions?
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Mon Jan  7 01:43:34 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 08:43:34 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
References: <20130106.143701.15815.3@webmail-beta01.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <ED1C2572A0DA4449A7D0DFCB0E1DFADF@paul>

It works for front wheel bearings on the MGB ...

----- Original Message ----- 
>  Shims could be used, but they would be tiny pieces of metal, the 
> integrity
> of which could not be seen once nuts are torqued, inside the engine.

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Mon Jan  7 08:47:48 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 09:47:48 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
In-Reply-To: <ED1C2572A0DA4449A7D0DFCB0E1DFADF@paul>
References: <20130106.143701.15815.3@webmail-beta01.vgs.untd.com>
	<ED1C2572A0DA4449A7D0DFCB0E1DFADF@paul>
Message-ID: <201301071551.r07FpN2s002495@nlpi176.prodigy.net>

In that application the nut is not bearing directly on the shims.  A 
nut bearing directly on a thin shim will destroy the shim as the nut 
is tightened.  If you are going to shim a nut for rotation reference, 
you need a hard flat washer between nut and shim, and the washer 
should be keyed so it doesn't rotate.


At 08:43 AM 1/7/2013 +0000, PaulHunt73 wrote:
>It works for front wheel bearings on the MGB ...


>----- Original Message -----
>>  Shims could be used, but they would be tiny pieces of metal, the integrity
>>of which could not be seen once nuts are torqued, inside the engine.
>>....

From mgbob at juno.com  Mon Jan  7 11:22:42 2013
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 18:22:42 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
Message-ID: <20130107.132242.27187.1@webmail-beta03.vgs.untd.com>

  No question about that, but those shims are large enough to see easily, and
to have some strength because of their size.  My concern is that shims small
enough to fit into that tight recess for connecting rod nuts would be
concealed by the nut and washer, and that the split washer could cut or tear a
tiny shim that is only a couple of thou thick.
  This may be needless worry, but I have never seen a shim used in this
application.
Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "PaulHunt73" <paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com>
To: <mike at duvallvideo.com>
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 08:43:34 -0000

It works for front wheel bearings on the MGB ...

----- Original Message -----
>  Shims could be used, but they would be tiny pieces of metal, the
> integrity
> of which could not be seen once nuts are torqued, inside the engine.
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From lundgren at byu.net  Mon Jan  7 11:43:12 2013
From: lundgren at byu.net (Andrew Lundgren)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 11:43:12 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
In-Reply-To: <20130107.132242.27187.1@webmail-beta03.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20130107.132242.27187.1@webmail-beta03.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <CAKr3Jn1r0ggsMmnrivez7Nx8RfYN0K0TVpRbKXiq21cD59E4OA@mail.gmail.com>

What would they have done on the assembly line when one didn't line up
perfectly?

I would bet they would back off the nut or advance it to the closest hole.
 On Jan 7, 2013 11:24 AM, "mgbob at juno.com" <mgbob at juno.com> wrote:

>   No question about that, but those shims are large enough to see easily,
> and
> to have some strength because of their size.  My concern is that shims
> small
> enough to fit into that tight recess for connecting rod nuts would be
> concealed by the nut and washer, and that the split washer could cut or
> tear a
> tiny shim that is only a couple of thou thick.
>   This may be needless worry, but I have never seen a shim used in this
> application.
> Bob
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "PaulHunt73" <paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com>
> To: <mike at duvallvideo.com>
> Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 08:43:34 -0000
>
> It works for front wheel bearings on the MGB ...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> >  Shims could be used, but they would be tiny pieces of metal, the
> > integrity
> > of which could not be seen once nuts are torqued, inside the engine.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/lundgren at byu.net

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan  7 12:00:39 2013
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:00:39 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
In-Reply-To: <CAKr3Jn1r0ggsMmnrivez7Nx8RfYN0K0TVpRbKXiq21cD59E4OA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20130107.132242.27187.1@webmail-beta03.vgs.untd.com>
	<CAKr3Jn1r0ggsMmnrivez7Nx8RfYN0K0TVpRbKXiq21cD59E4OA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50EB1B57.40600@sbcglobal.net>

I don't think they were using torque wrenches back then.

Charles Hill

On 1/7/2013 12:43 PM, Andrew Lundgren wrote:
> What would they have done on the assembly line when one didn't line up
> perfectly?

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Mon Jan  7 12:05:06 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:05:06 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
In-Reply-To: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>
References: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <50EB1C62.3050600@ktc.com>

Let's keep in mind that torque specs are meant to set the fastener 
(bolt, stud) into the approximate middle of its elasticity range and the 
torque specs are given in a range too.   If a torque spec is given as, 
say 40 - 50 ft-lbs I'll set my wrench for 45 and sneak up on it.  One 
crenelation in a castellated nut, more or less, isn't that big a deal, IMO.

CR
On 1/5/2013 10:06 PM, Duvall Video Productions wrote:
> Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?   I
> have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
> line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and if
> I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>
> Suggestions?

From mgbob at juno.com  Mon Jan  7 15:11:10 2013
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 22:11:10 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
Message-ID: <20130107.171110.10250.2@webmail-beta01.vgs.untd.com>

  Try YouTube for British Pathe movies, then look up MG and other cars.  Pathe
did newsreels and movies about businesses.
   Wade through them for a while and you can enjoy B&W movies of T-series MGs
being assembled without a power tool in sight. Parts were lifted onto
assemblies, assemblies might then be chain hoisted onto the chassis. By MGA
time, a few power tools appear. I have not spotted a torque wrench in any I
have seen.All the workers wore neckties tucked into aprons or their shirts.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Charles Hill <chillmog at sbcglobal.net>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:00:39 -0600

I don't think they were using torque wrenches back then.

Charles Hill

On 1/7/2013 12:43 PM, Andrew Lundgren wrote:
> What would they have done on the assembly line when one didn't line up
> perfectly?
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From g.schnittke at comcast.net  Mon Jan  7 20:13:37 2013
From: g.schnittke at comcast.net (Glenn Schnittke)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:13:37 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net>

I've been working on this same question on an XPEG. The response from 
the old hands I've talked to has always been ' rearrange the nuts to 
best fit and  then shave the bottom of the rest on  a glass plate to fit'.

My thought on that is 'what keeps the stud itself in place'? There's 
never a torque value for bottoming the stud into the block. And there's 
no mechanical device to keep the stud from backing out, so what's 
keeping the whole assembly from backing out even with the cotter pin 
through the castellated nut or nylock or whatever you're using on the 
top side?

It's just one of those things that has puzzled me through the years - 
what keeps a stud from backing out when the nut holding whatever it is 
in place has a VERY specific torque value?

Moss's answer seems to be nylock nuts. I don't trust them. On top of 
having to figure the friction value onto the eventual torque value, I'm 
concerned about how the heat will affect the nylon over time. If I have 
to go to a locking nut I should rather trust an aircraft nut which has a 
metal-to-metal contact and I'd still have to factor in the friction to 
the eventual torque value.

I've seen all kinds of discussion on specific torque values for heads, 
main caps, conrods, etc. I've found nothing in any manual or discussion 
about the proper torque for bottoming a stud. I'm sure I'm going to 
excite all the engineers on the list by bringing this up, but why can't 
I just back off the stud just a little bit to move the cotter pin hole 
to meet the castle nut?

Glenn

> From: Duvall Video Productions<mike at duvallvideo.com>
> To:mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
> Message-ID:<EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C at duvallvideo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?   I
> have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
> line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and if
> I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>
> Suggestions?

From don at napanet.net  Mon Jan  7 21:03:47 2013
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 20:03:47 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
In-Reply-To: <ED1C2572A0DA4449A7D0DFCB0E1DFADF@paul>
References: <20130106.143701.15815.3@webmail-beta01.vgs.untd.com>
	<ED1C2572A0DA4449A7D0DFCB0E1DFADF@paul>
Message-ID: <mailman.3032.1357618022.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>

I have seen these on Japanese cars usually on hubs, but don't know 
what they are called.  Perhaps a set of them could be used with 
non-castellated nuts, assuming you can find proper nuts having the 
right threads.  You would be able to torque the nuts properly and 
then just fit the little locking devices atop the nuts and insert 
cotters.  These devices can be rotated to where they align with the 
hole in the stud.

http://cdn1.autopartsnetwork.com/images/catalog/brand/dorman/640/05183-007.jpg


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Don Scott
Calistoga CA USA
1955 MGTF
1962 MGA Mk 2
1967 MGB
1963-7 MGB (seeking)
Misc. Japanese cars  

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Mon Jan  7 09:48:16 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 16:48:16 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
References: <20130106.143701.15815.3@webmail-beta01.vgs.untd.com>
	<ED1C2572A0DA4449A7D0DFCB0E1DFADF@paul>
	<201301071551.r07FpN2s002495@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <E6BCB457C21E421F83E25669101B7E84@paul>

Fairy nuff.  It does depend just how much thickness is going to be needed to 
bring the holes into line, it could need a washer.

----- Original Message ----- 
> In that application the nut is not bearing directly on the shims.  A nut 
> bearing directly on a thin shim will destroy the shim as the nut is 
> tightened.  If you are going to shim a nut for rotation reference, you 
> need a hard flat washer between nut and shim, and the washer should be 
> keyed so it doesn't rotate.

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Tue Jan  8 01:46:23 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 08:46:23 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
References: <20130107.132242.27187.1@webmail-beta03.vgs.untd.com>
	<CAKr3Jn1r0ggsMmnrivez7Nx8RfYN0K0TVpRbKXiq21cD59E4OA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A454724C3834DC2B64AE66EC92E9C16@paul>

That was to have been the basis of my next post, I can't believe those 
engines were manufactured to such close tolerances that it always lined up 
on an exact torque figure.  The MGB hub nut has a range of 40 to 70 ft lb. 
You tighten it to 40, then if neither of the holes line up with any of the 
castellations you keep tightening until something does, and that should 
happen before 70 ft lb.  Going for the middle straight away would not be the 
right way to go for a nut with a security feature such as split pin or wire. 
How much are they out anyway?  Nothing wrong with Loctite or similar, 
manufacturers have depended on that instead of wired nuts or split-pins for 
donkey's years.  However it *may* be that those engines do need a positive 
security locking.  I'd be asking somewhere like The Octagon Club.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> What would they have done on the assembly line when one didn't line up
> perfectly?

From mgbob at juno.com  Tue Jan  8 05:48:44 2013
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:48:44 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5
Message-ID: <20130108.074844.23828.0@webmail-beta01.vgs.untd.com>

  Interesting thought.
  One never torques a stud into a casting. Rule of thumb is to turn it in
finger tight, then back off a little.
  If one were to put for reference a scratch across the nut end of the stud,
it would seem to make your idea ideal.
  It's new to me; thanks for suggesting it.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Glenn Schnittke <g.schnittke at comcast.net>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:13:37 -0600

I've been working on this same question on an XPEG. The response from
the old hands I've talked to has always been ' rearrange the nuts to
best fit and  then shave the bottom of the rest on  a glass plate to fit'.

My thought on that is 'what keeps the stud itself in place'? There's
never a torque value for bottoming the stud into the block. And there's
no mechanical device to keep the stud from backing out, so what's
keeping the whole assembly from backing out even with the cotter pin
through the castellated nut or nylock or whatever you're using on the
top side?

It's just one of those things that has puzzled me through the years -
what keeps a stud from backing out when the nut holding whatever it is
in place has a VERY specific torque value?

Moss's answer seems to be nylock nuts. I don't trust them. On top of
having to figure the friction value onto the eventual torque value, I'm
concerned about how the heat will affect the nylon over time. If I have
to go to a locking nut I should rather trust an aircraft nut which has a
metal-to-metal contact and I'd still have to factor in the friction to
the eventual torque value.

I've seen all kinds of discussion on specific torque values for heads,
main caps, conrods, etc. I've found nothing in any manual or discussion
about the proper torque for bottoming a stud. I'm sure I'm going to
excite all the engineers on the list by bringing this up, but why can't
I just back off the stud just a little bit to move the cotter pin hole
to meet the castle nut?

Glenn

> From: Duvall Video Productions<mike at duvallvideo.com>
> To:mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
> Message-ID:<EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C at duvallvideo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?
I
> have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
> line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and
if
> I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>
> Suggestions?
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Tue Jan  8 07:40:56 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 08:40:56 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net>
	<50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>

The answer for seating torque on the stud (any stud) is finger tight, 
not to exceed 5 lb-ft of torque.

The recpetical is a deep threaded hole, and the stud has a shorter 
thread.  The stud screws in until it runs out of threads on the stud, 
at which time the last incomplete thread on the stud will bind in the 
first thread on the receptacle.  Applying more torque at that time 
will damage the top female thread, raising a burr and possibly 
damaging a casting.  Too much torque on the stud could crack the casting.

Most studs (not all) will have course thread on the bottom end and 
fine thread on the top end.  The steeper ramp angle on the bottom 
thread will prevent the stud from turning while the nut is being 
tightened.  Otherwise prevailing torque on the last incomplete thread 
is all that prevents the stud from turning.  Binding on the 
incomplete thread is also all that keeps the stud from unscrewing 
when the nut is being removed.  This is why self-locking nuts have a 
tendency to unscrew the stud when being removed.  That also makes it 
difficult to back the nut off 1/4 turn if you want to re-torque it later.

If you back the stud out a little in attempt to synchronize location 
of a cross pin hole, chances are pretty good that the stud will 
rotate again and end up in a non-predictable final position when 
tightening the nut.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude
http://MGAguru.com


At 09:13 PM 1/7/2013 -0600, Glenn Schnittke wrote:
>I've been working on this same question on an XPEG. The response 
>from the old hands I've talked to has always been ' rearrange the 
>nuts to best fit and  then shave the bottom of the rest on  a glass 
>plate to fit'.
>
>My thought on that is 'what keeps the stud itself in place'? There's 
>never a torque value for bottoming the stud into the block. And 
>there's no mechanical device to keep the stud from backing out, so 
>what's keeping the whole assembly from backing out even with the 
>cotter pin through the castellated nut or nylock or whatever you're 
>using on the top side?
>
>It's just one of those things that has puzzled me through the years 
>- what keeps a stud from backing out when the nut holding whatever 
>it is in place has a VERY specific torque value?
>
>Moss's answer seems to be nylock nuts. I don't trust them. On top of 
>having to figure the friction value onto the eventual torque value, 
>I'm concerned about how the heat will affect the nylon over time. If 
>I have to go to a locking nut I should rather trust an aircraft nut 
>which has a metal-to-metal contact and I'd still have to factor in 
>the friction to the eventual torque value.
>
>I've seen all kinds of discussion on specific torque values for 
>heads, main caps, conrods, etc. I've found nothing in any manual or 
>discussion about the proper torque for bottoming a stud. I'm sure 
>I'm going to excite all the engineers on the list by bringing this 
>up, but why can't I just back off the stud just a little bit to move 
>the cotter pin hole to meet the castle nut?
>....


>>From: Duvall Video Productions<mike at duvallvideo.com>
>>To:mgs at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
>>....
>>
>>Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?   I
>>have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes don't
>>line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and if
>>I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>>....

From mike at sportscarslimited.net  Tue Jan  8 10:30:03 2013
From: mike at sportscarslimited.net (Michael Singleton)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 09:30:03 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
In-Reply-To: <50EB1C62.3050600@ktc.com>
References: <EB99225A-0474-46A7-94CA-F4F54D7EE13C@duvallvideo.com>
	<50EB1C62.3050600@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <000001cdedc5$ce0337b0$6a09a710$@sportscarslimited.net>

It has been interesting to see all the various theories on nut and bolt
tightening. However, in all cases it is advisable to consult the factory
service manual first. In the MGTD/F Workshop Manual under "Torque Spanner
Data," which should provide an indication that the factory did, in fact,
believe in torque wrenches, The listed torque value for both Connecting rod
big-end bolts, as well as Main bearing cap nuts, the values are listed as
"320 lbs. in. (to the next split pin hole) and 750 lbs. in. (to the next
split pin hole)"  respectively. I realize that Mike is referring to a MPJG
engine, not a XPEG or XPAG engine and might not have the proper
documentation on it, but the general thinking from the factory did not
change much until significantly after the war, when they discovered the self
locking nut.

Additionally, it is always advisable to use the proper Loctite sealant and
properly install it. Suggestions and directions on use are available on the
Loctite site:  http://www.loctite.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Charley & Peggy Robinson
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 11:05 AM
To: Duvall Video Productions
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question

Let's keep in mind that torque specs are meant to set the fastener (bolt,
stud) into the approximate middle of its elasticity range and the 
torque specs are given in a range too.   If a torque spec is given as, 
say 40 - 50 ft-lbs I'll set my wrench for 45 and sneak up on it.  One
crenelation in a castellated nut, more or less, isn't that big a deal, IMO.

CR
On 1/5/2013 10:06 PM, Duvall Video Productions wrote:
> Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?
I
> have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes
don't
> line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and
if
> I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>
> Suggestions?
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net

From crk at godblessthe.us  Tue Jan  8 13:01:10 2013
From: crk at godblessthe.us (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:01:10 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net>
	<50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net>
	<201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <019c01cdedda$e7ec9f30$b7c5dd90$@us>

That's interesting. But so often the stud or bolt in similar applications
gets chemically welded in - rusted. Nuts the same way. So, should the
threads be coated with an anti-seize or oil, or should they be "dry"? I
don't think loctite works very well with any anti seize.

Clayton



-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Barney Gaylord
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 6:41 AM
To: Glenn Schnittke; mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)

The answer for seating torque on the stud (any stud) is finger tight, not to
exceed 5 lb-ft of torque.

The recpetical is a deep threaded hole, and the stud has a shorter thread.
The stud screws in until it runs out of threads on the stud, at which time
the last incomplete thread on the stud will bind in the first thread on the
receptacle.  Applying more torque at that time will damage the top female
thread, raising a burr and possibly damaging a casting.  Too much torque on
the stud could crack the casting.

Most studs (not all) will have course thread on the bottom end and fine
thread on the top end.  The steeper ramp angle on the bottom thread will
prevent the stud from turning while the nut is being tightened.  Otherwise
prevailing torque on the last incomplete thread is all that prevents the
stud from turning.  Binding on the incomplete thread is also all that keeps
the stud from unscrewing when the nut is being removed.  This is why
self-locking nuts have a tendency to unscrew the stud when being removed.
That also makes it difficult to back the nut off 1/4 turn if you want to
re-torque it later.

If you back the stud out a little in attempt to synchronize location of a
cross pin hole, chances are pretty good that the stud will rotate again and
end up in a non-predictable final position when tightening the nut.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude
http://MGAguru.com


At 09:13 PM 1/7/2013 -0600, Glenn Schnittke wrote:
>I've been working on this same question on an XPEG. The response from 
>the old hands I've talked to has always been ' rearrange the nuts to 
>best fit and  then shave the bottom of the rest on  a glass plate to 
>fit'.
>
>My thought on that is 'what keeps the stud itself in place'? There's 
>never a torque value for bottoming the stud into the block. And there's 
>no mechanical device to keep the stud from backing out, so what's 
>keeping the whole assembly from backing out even with the cotter pin 
>through the castellated nut or nylock or whatever you're using on the 
>top side?
>
>It's just one of those things that has puzzled me through the years
>- what keeps a stud from backing out when the nut holding whatever it 
>is in place has a VERY specific torque value?
>
>Moss's answer seems to be nylock nuts. I don't trust them. On top of 
>having to figure the friction value onto the eventual torque value, I'm 
>concerned about how the heat will affect the nylon over time. If I have 
>to go to a locking nut I should rather trust an aircraft nut which has 
>a metal-to-metal contact and I'd still have to factor in the friction 
>to the eventual torque value.
>
>I've seen all kinds of discussion on specific torque values for heads, 
>main caps, conrods, etc. I've found nothing in any manual or discussion 
>about the proper torque for bottoming a stud. I'm sure I'm going to 
>excite all the engineers on the list by bringing this up, but why can't 
>I just back off the stud just a little bit to move the cotter pin hole 
>to meet the castle nut?
>....


>>From: Duvall Video Productions<mike at duvallvideo.com> 
>>To:mgs at autox.team.net
>>Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
>>....
>>
>>Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap nuts?
I
>>have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the holes
don't
>>line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over torque and
if
>>I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>>....
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/crk at godblessthe.us

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Tue Jan  8 13:17:45 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 14:17:45 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net>
	<50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net>
	<201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <50EC7EE9.9030105@ktc.com>

Now, that's darned interesting!  I have always wondered why some head 
studs were coarse thread on the end into the casting  and fine thread 
for the nut.  Just never bothered to look it up.

Thanks for the post,

CR
On 1/8/2013 8:40 AM, Barney Gaylord wrote:
> The answer for seating torque on the stud (any stud) is finger tight, 
> not to exceed 5 lb-ft of torque.
>
> The recpetical is a deep threaded hole, and the stud has a shorter 
> thread.  The stud screws in until it runs out of threads on the stud, 
> at which time the last incomplete thread on the stud will bind in the 
> first thread on the receptacle.  Applying more torque at that time 
> will damage the top female thread, raising a burr and possibly 
> damaging a casting.  Too much torque on the stud could crack the casting.
>
> Most studs (not all) will have course thread on the bottom end and 
> fine thread on the top end.  The steeper ramp angle on the bottom 
> thread will prevent the stud from turning while the nut is being 
> tightened.  Otherwise prevailing torque on the last incomplete thread 
> is all that prevents the stud from turning.  Binding on the incomplete 
> thread is also all that keeps the stud from unscrewing when the nut is 
> being removed.  This is why self-locking nuts have a tendency to 
> unscrew the stud when being removed.  That also makes it difficult to 
> back the nut off 1/4 turn if you want to re-torque it later.
>
> If you back the stud out a little in attempt to synchronize location 
> of a cross pin hole, chances are pretty good that the stud will rotate 
> again and end up in a non-predictable final position when tightening 
> the nut.
>
> Barney Gaylord
> 1958 MGA with an attitude
> http://MGAguru.com
>
>
> At 09:13 PM 1/7/2013 -0600, Glenn Schnittke wrote:
>> I've been working on this same question on an XPEG. The response from 
>> the old hands I've talked to has always been ' rearrange the nuts to 
>> best fit and  then shave the bottom of the rest on  a glass plate to 
>> fit'.
>>
>> My thought on that is 'what keeps the stud itself in place'? There's 
>> never a torque value for bottoming the stud into the block. And 
>> there's no mechanical device to keep the stud from backing out, so 
>> what's keeping the whole assembly from backing out even with the 
>> cotter pin through the castellated nut or nylock or whatever you're 
>> using on the top side?
>>
>> It's just one of those things that has puzzled me through the years - 
>> what keeps a stud from backing out when the nut holding whatever it 
>> is in place has a VERY specific torque value?
>>
>> Moss's answer seems to be nylock nuts. I don't trust them. On top of 
>> having to figure the friction value onto the eventual torque value, 
>> I'm concerned about how the heat will affect the nylon over time. If 
>> I have to go to a locking nut I should rather trust an aircraft nut 
>> which has a metal-to-metal contact and I'd still have to factor in 
>> the friction to the eventual torque value.
>>
>> I've seen all kinds of discussion on specific torque values for 
>> heads, main caps, conrods, etc. I've found nothing in any manual or 
>> discussion about the proper torque for bottoming a stud. I'm sure I'm 
>> going to excite all the engineers on the list by bringing this up, 
>> but why can't I just back off the stud just a little bit to move the 
>> cotter pin hole to meet the castle nut?
>> ....
>
>
>>> From: Duvall Video Productions<mike at duvallvideo.com>
>>> To:mgs at autox.team.net
>>> Subject: [Mgs] loctite question
>>> ....
>>>
>>> Anyone use red loctite instead of mechanical fasteners on main cap 
>>> nuts?   I
>>> have an MPJG engine from a TA when I torque down the mains, the 
>>> holes don't
>>> line up to the castle nuts for the wire.   I don't want to over 
>>> torque and if
>>> I back them up to match the hole, I loose my torque.
>>> ....
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From don at napanet.net  Tue Jan  8 21:54:24 2013
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 20:54:24 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] MGB_accessories
Message-ID: <mailman.3125.1357707520.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>

http://blog.earlymgb.com/files/6/5/4/4/0/311733-304456/MGB_accessories_196200
01.pdf

A friend of mine back about 1970 or so had two
Mk1 MGB roadsters.  One of the cars had imitation
leopard skin seat covers which my friend thought
were a real plus for the car.  I thought they
looked very declassi, and that they must have
been sourced from K-Mart.  I later read somewhere
that these seat covers were an option, and were a
genuine BMC factory accessory.  Someone at BMC
must have visited India and been enamored with
the look of a wildcat for seat covering and
convinced management to offer these things to MG buyers as an accessory.

(Thanks to BLOG.EARLYMGB.COM)


------------------------------------------------------------------


Don Scott
Calistoga CA USA
1955 MGTF
1962 MGA Mk 2
1967 MGB
1963-7 MGB (seeking)
Misc. Japanese cars

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Wed Jan  9 01:38:53 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 08:38:53 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net><50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net><201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<019c01cdedda$e7ec9f30$b7c5dd90$@us>
Message-ID: <51323D4C05034D909C6D06B81AD41410@paul>

Torque specs are usually given for oiled threads.

----- Original Message ----- 
> ... So, should the
> threads be coated with an anti-seize or oil, or should they be "dry"?

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Wed Jan  9 01:37:52 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 08:37:52 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net><50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net><201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<50EC7EE9.9030105@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <F44A32A855A54CFCB2154090CB3ECD7E@paul>

Coarse one end and fine the other is normally used in alloy blocks, can't 
see why cast iron would need a coarse thread.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Now, that's darned interesting!  I have always wondered why some head 
> studs were coarse thread on the end into the casting  and fine thread for 
> the nut.  Just never bothered to look it up.

From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  9 05:25:24 2013
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 04:25:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] MGB_accessories
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3125.1357707520.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3125.1357707520.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <1357734324.84154.YahooMailNeo@web164904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Well, it WAS the '60's, after all.....

Dan D
'76 B
'65 B
Central NJ USA
________________________________
 From: Don <don at napanet.net>
To:
mgs-autox.team.net <mgs at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 11:54
PM
Subject: [Mgs] MGB_accessories
http://blog.earlymgb.com/files/6/5/4/4/0/311733-304456/MGB_accessories_196200
01.pdf

A friend of mine back about 1970 or so had two
Mk1 MGB roadsters.  One
of the cars had imitation
leopard skin seat covers which my friend thought
were a real plus for the car.  I thought they
looked very declassi, and that
they must have
been sourced from K-Mart.  I later read somewhere
that these
seat covers were an option, and were a
genuine BMC factory accessory.  Someone
at BMC
must have visited India and been enamored with
the look of a wildcat
for seat covering and
convinced management to offer these things to MG buyers
as an accessory.

(Thanks to BLOG.EARLYMGB.COM)
------------------------------------------------------------------


Don Scott
Calistoga CA USA
1955 MGTF
1962 MGA Mk 2
1967 MGB
1963-7 MGB (seeking)
Misc.
Japanese cars
_______________________________________________
Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual
donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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http://www.team.net/forums
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From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Wed Jan  9 06:14:34 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 07:14:34 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <F44A32A855A54CFCB2154090CB3ECD7E@paul>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net>
	<50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net>
	<201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<50EC7EE9.9030105@ktc.com> <F44A32A855A54CFCB2154090CB3ECD7E@paul>
Message-ID: <201301091314.r09DEbik011429@nlpi176.prodigy.net>

Want more confusion?  Head studs (in the block) have coarse 
threads.  Manifold studs (in side of the head) have fine 
threads.  Water valve studs (in side of the head) have fine 
threads.  Thernostat studs (in top of the head) have coarse 
threads.  In the gearbox, bolts for the remote shift extension 
housing to tail housing joint may be either coarse or fine thread 
depending on time of produvtion of the gearbox (and that's an 
aluminum housing going either way).


At 08:37 AM 1/9/2013 +0000, PaulHunt73 wrote:
>Coarse one end and fine the other is normally used in alloy blocks, 
>can't see why cast iron would need a coarse thread.
>....

From crk at godblessthe.us  Wed Jan  9 08:27:41 2013
From: crk at godblessthe.us (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 07:27:41 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <51323D4C05034D909C6D06B81AD41410@paul>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net><50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net><201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<019c01cdedda$e7ec9f30$b7c5dd90$@us>
	<51323D4C05034D909C6D06B81AD41410@paul>
Message-ID: <004201cdee7d$de670ab0$9b352010$@us>

But can oiled threads be locked with loctite.

Clayton

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of PaulHunt73
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:39 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)

Torque specs are usually given for oiled threads.

----- Original Message ----- 
> ... So, should the
> threads be coated with an anti-seize or oil, or should they be "dry"?
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
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From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Wed Jan  9 08:41:00 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:41:00 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <004201cdee7d$de670ab0$9b352010$@us>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net><50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net><201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<019c01cdedda$e7ec9f30$b7c5dd90$@us>
	<51323D4C05034D909C6D06B81AD41410@paul>
	<004201cdee7d$de670ab0$9b352010$@us>
Message-ID: <003001cdee7f$b9a26f60$2ce74e20$@com>

I'm not sure of the original premise, my experience is that torque specs are
given as dry clean threads unless stated otherwise. The addition of Loctite
or lubricant requires a reduction in torque or the fastener will be
over-stressed. 

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK
-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Clayton Kirkwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 10:28 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)

But can oiled threads be locked with loctite.

Clayton

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of PaulHunt73
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:39 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)

Torque specs are usually given for oiled threads.

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 09:29:02 2013
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 08:29:02 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <004201cdee7d$de670ab0$9b352010$@us>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net>
	<50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net>
	<201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<019c01cdedda$e7ec9f30$b7c5dd90$@us>
	<51323D4C05034D909C6D06B81AD41410@paul>
	<004201cdee7d$de670ab0$9b352010$@us>
Message-ID: <CACOF-TpJx0i6DkqcWcZyhUvGZbXHebkM64A3gsVgWS7mgj0weA@mail.gmail.com>

No, loctite is a glue.  Glue won't stick if there is oil present.


On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Clayton Kirkwood <crk at godblessthe.us> wrote:

> But can oiled threads be locked with loctite.
>
> Clayton
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of PaulHunt73
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:39 AM
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
>
> Torque specs are usually given for oiled threads.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > ... So, should the
> > threads be coated with an anti-seize or oil, or should they be "dry"?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/crk at godblessthe.us
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From jello at cableone.net  Wed Jan  9 09:40:43 2013
From: jello at cableone.net (PHIL BATES)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 09:40:43 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Moss MGA/MGB Laygear upgrade
Message-ID: <CAB2zmqFv7gOXkrp01-X=3H5Js5R6bvk1hgzQtMVqcbUSCC+rEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Barney,
I have an MGA gearbox I need to rebuild.  Basically, just bearings,
thrust washers, 1st gear etc.  I wondered if you have (or know of
anyone that has) experience with the Moss upgrade kit that includes a
new laygear with new needle bearings (the loose bearing style),
spacers to keep the bearings in place, and dummy shaft??  I read most
if not all of your layshaft improvement page and the info on the
improvements.  It appears the Moss kit takes care of that, although it
also contains a layshaft....which may or may not be needed (you say
they are very hard wearing).

Phil Bates

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Wed Jan  9 09:42:25 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:42:25 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3157.1357745462.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3157.1357745462.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <3996BF8D-5AC6-4427-9882-EC3005EFE017@duvallvideo.com>

Clayton,  There is a lot of good info here...  it doesn't act as a chemical
bonding agent but it fills in gaps.  You have to clean the threads to get the
results.



http://useloctite.com/filephotos/documents/LT4985TLCapabilityGd.pdf

>
>   1. Re: loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
>      (Clayton Kirkwood)
>
> From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <crk at godblessthe.us>
> To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
> Message-ID: <019c01cdedda$e7ec9f30$b7c5dd90$@us>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> That's interesting. But so often the stud or bolt in similar applications
> gets chemically welded in - rusted. Nuts the same way. So, should the
> threads be coated with an anti-seize or oil, or should they be "dry"? I
> don't think loctite works very well with any anti seize.
>
> Clayton

From frankk12 at verizon.net  Thu Jan 10 12:04:27 2013
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:04:27 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
Message-ID: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>

Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and the
shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never heard
of it.
Frank Krajewski

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Thu Jan 10 12:12:41 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:12:41 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com>

At the risk of another war-
Just buy a good quality oil and forget about the ZDDP. Current oils have
levels about the same as late 50s, early 60s oils.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of frankk12 at verizon.net
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:04 PM
To: MG List
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP

Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and
the shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never
heard of it.
Frank Krajewski

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Jan 10 12:19:05 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:19:05 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <CD145429.426A5%mvheim@sonic.net>

Mobil 1 Synthetic in the 15W-50 weight ONLY contains 1200ppm of phosphorus
and 1300ppm of zinc ("recommended for racing and flat tappet applications").
I switched to this oil for my vintage cars once I discovered this fact. It's
expensive ($8+/qt), but probably less expensive (and certainly less hassle)
than dealing with additives.



on 1/10/13 11:04 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net at frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:

> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and the
> shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never heard
> of it.
> Frank Krajewski

> 

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From frankk12 at verizon.net  Thu Jan 10 12:22:02 2013
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:22:02 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
References: <CD145429.426A5%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CB3E3536DFE24996A090063CC0F658A4@frankdcczr6l6k>

Max: I have never used synthetics and wonder about the wisdom of switching 
when my engines have so many miles on them. I have heard stories of seals 
leaking after such a switch.
Frank
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Heim" <mvheim at sonic.net>
To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP


> Mobil 1 Synthetic in the 15W-50 weight ONLY contains 1200ppm of phosphorus
> and 1300ppm of zinc ("recommended for racing and flat tappet 
> applications").
> I switched to this oil for my vintage cars once I discovered this fact. 
> It's
> expensive ($8+/qt), but probably less expensive (and certainly less 
> hassle)
> than dealing with additives.
>
>
>
> on 1/10/13 11:04 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net at frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>
>> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss 
>> and the
>> shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never 
>> heard
>> of it.
>> Frank Krajewski
>
>>
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/frankk12 at verizon.net 

From frankk12 at verizon.net  Thu Jan 10 12:23:19 2013
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:23:19 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com>
Message-ID: <6E1800C76E2F4D6BAB2E7E97180D76CB@frankdcczr6l6k>

You are probably right about starting a war which is not my intent. I only 
thought someone who has used the additive might have a better source.
Frank
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen West-Fisher" <steve at coastaldatasystems.com>
To: "'MG List'" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP


> At the risk of another war-
> Just buy a good quality oil and forget about the ZDDP. Current oils have
> levels about the same as late 50s, early 60s oils.
>
> --
> Stephen West-Fisher
> N4IK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of frankk12 at verizon.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:04 PM
> To: MG List
> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
>
> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and
> the shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has 
> never
> heard of it.
> Frank Krajewski
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/frankk12 at verizon.net 

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Jan 10 12:32:45 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:32:45 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com>
Message-ID: <CD14575D.426AC%mvheim@sonic.net>

You may be correct about 1950s oil, but I think your conclusion is wrong.
There are many reports of premature cam and lifter wear using current oils.
My MGB cam wore itself down to about .25" lift, for example.

Look at it from an engineering perspective: zinc and phosphorus are
ingredients included specifically to protect against flat tappet cam wear.
Modern oils reduce the amounts of these elements because phosphorus destroys
catalytic converters, and they do not add any substitutes since they are
formulated for modern engines with roller cams and are targeted for low
friction/high fuel efficiency, not anti-wear characteristics. So it stands
to reason that modern oils do not protect flat tappet cams as well as
formulations with high zinc and phosphorus.

Maybe premature cam wear was an issue in the 1950s, too, but that doesn't
mean we have to live with it now. By the 1970s, at least, high ZDDP oils
were commonplace.

Should we go back to oil bath air filters, or leather disc shock absorbers,
because they used them in the 1930s?

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 1/10/13 11:12 AM, Stephen West-Fisher at steve at coastaldatasystems.com
wrote:

> At the risk of another war-
> Just buy a good quality oil and forget about the ZDDP. Current oils have
> levels about the same as late 50s, early 60s oils.
> 
> --
> Stephen West-Fisher
> N4IK
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of frankk12 at verizon.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:04 PM
> To: MG List
> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
> 
> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and
> the shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never
> heard of it.
> Frank Krajewski

From riverside at southslope.net  Thu Jan 10 12:50:11 2013
From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside at southslope.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:50:11 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CD14575D.426AC%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <CD14575D.426AC%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <0DB2BBACE947493F8C32463885DFCB71@rileyPC>

Look at the material data sheet for any oil you consider.
I use Brad Penn in my flat tappet motors.
Google this issue and find numerous credible
arguments regarding the differences between
oils for modern engines and oils for the old
pre cat motors.

Art de armond

-----Original Message----- 
From: Max Heim
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:32 PM
To: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

You may be correct about 1950s oil, but I think your conclusion is wrong.
There are many reports of premature cam and lifter wear using current oils.
My MGB cam wore itself down to about .25" lift, for example.

Look at it from an engineering perspective: zinc and phosphorus are
ingredients included specifically to protect against flat tappet cam wear.
Modern oils reduce the amounts of these elements because phosphorus destroys
catalytic converters, and they do not add any substitutes since they are
formulated for modern engines with roller cams and are targeted for low
friction/high fuel efficiency, not anti-wear characteristics. So it stands
to reason that modern oils do not protect flat tappet cams as well as
formulations with high zinc and phosphorus.

Maybe premature cam wear was an issue in the 1950s, too, but that doesn't
mean we have to live with it now. By the 1970s, at least, high ZDDP oils
were commonplace.

Should we go back to oil bath air filters, or leather disc shock absorbers,
because they used them in the 1930s?

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 1/10/13 11:12 AM, Stephen West-Fisher at steve at coastaldatasystems.com
wrote:

> At the risk of another war-
> Just buy a good quality oil and forget about the ZDDP. Current oils have
> levels about the same as late 50s, early 60s oils.
>
> --
> Stephen West-Fisher
> N4IK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of frankk12 at verizon.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:04 PM
> To: MG List
> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
>
> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and
> the shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has 
> never
> heard of it.
> Frank Krajewski
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net



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From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Jan 10 13:04:35 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:04:35 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CB3E3536DFE24996A090063CC0F658A4@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <CD145ED3.426B4%mvheim@sonic.net>

Maybe if your engine doesn't leak ANY oil, you might worry about it. Mine
leaks plenty, and I haven't noticed any difference.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 1/10/13 11:22 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net at frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:

> Max: I have never used synthetics and wonder about the wisdom of switching
> when my engines have so many miles on them. I have heard stories of seals
> leaking after such a switch.
> Frank
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Max Heim" <mvheim at sonic.net>
> To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
> 
> 
>> Mobil 1 Synthetic in the 15W-50 weight ONLY contains 1200ppm of phosphorus
>> and 1300ppm of zinc ("recommended for racing and flat tappet
>> applications").
>> I switched to this oil for my vintage cars once I discovered this fact.
>> It's
>> expensive ($8+/qt), but probably less expensive (and certainly less
>> hassle)
>> than dealing with additives.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> on 1/10/13 11:04 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net at frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>> 
>>> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss
>>> and the
>>> shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never
>>> heard
>>> of it.
>>> Frank Krajewski
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
>> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
>> it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 13:26:32 2013
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:26:32 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CB3E3536DFE24996A090063CC0F658A4@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <CD145429.426A5%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<CB3E3536DFE24996A090063CC0F658A4@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <CAEUYfyOC1r7z3JD_UKOVH6ca2yA4Bmvruc-bEVM4M2giFpcMww@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 11:22 AM,  <frankk12 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Max: I have never used synthetics and wonder about the wisdom of switching
> when my engines have so many miles on them. I have heard stories of seals
> leaking after such a switch.



I think that the leaking issues was a problem with early synthetics.
Not a problem now.

Amsoil sells oils with a "high zinc formulationto prevent wear on
flat-tappet camshafts". I don't know how "high" it is.

Simon

> Frank
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Heim" <mvheim at sonic.net>
> To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
>
>
>> Mobil 1 Synthetic in the 15W-50 weight ONLY contains 1200ppm of phosphorus
>> and 1300ppm of zinc ("recommended for racing and flat tappet
>> applications").
>> I switched to this oil for my vintage cars once I discovered this fact.
>> It's
>> expensive ($8+/qt), but probably less expensive (and certainly less
>> hassle)
>> than dealing with additives.
>>
>>
>>
>> on 1/10/13 11:04 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net at frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss
>>> and the
>>> shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never
>>> heard
>>> of it.
>>> Frank Krajewski
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
>> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
>> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/frankk12 at verizon.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com

From mg_garage at comcast.net  Thu Jan 10 15:21:20 2013
From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:21:20 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CAEUYfyOC1r7z3JD_UKOVH6ca2yA4Bmvruc-bEVM4M2giFpcMww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CD145429.426A5%mvheim@sonic.net><CB3E3536DFE24996A090063CC0F658A4@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<CAEUYfyOC1r7z3JD_UKOVH6ca2yA4Bmvruc-bEVM4M2giFpcMww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E2C5E8A1A80448F5AA28DD1FC9DF30E7@stargate>

There seems to be plenty of evidence of excessive cam wear all over the net.
I first heard of it in, maybe, 2004 or so.
A few years ago I was using Shell Rotella, a diesel oil, for higher ZDDP, but
they have since changed their formulation.   I switched to synthetic after the
Rotella went away and have not experienced any problems... yet.  By then, the
engine will need a rebuild anyway.

I believe that Little British Car Co. has an additive and possibly even a
specialty classic car oil available.

IMO, switching to full synthetic at anytime is about the single best thing you
can do to prolong life.

Gordie Bird
'62 MGA
couple of old Audis



> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 11:22 AM,  <frankk12 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Max: I have never used synthetics and wonder about the wisdom of switching
>> when my engines have so many miles on them. I have heard stories of seals
>> leaking after such a switch.
>
>
>
> I think that the leaking issues was a problem with early synthetics.
> Not a problem now.
>
> Amsoil sells oils with a "high zinc formulationto prevent wear on
> flat-tappet camshafts". I don't know how "high" it is.
>
> Simon
>
>> Frank
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Heim" <mvheim at sonic.net>
>> To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
>>
>>
>>> Mobil 1 Synthetic in the 15W-50 weight ONLY contains 1200ppm of
phosphorus
>>> and 1300ppm of zinc ("recommended for racing and flat tappet
>>> applications").
>>> I switched to this oil for my vintage cars once I discovered this fact.
>>> It's
>>> expensive ($8+/qt), but probably less expensive (and certainly less
>>> hassle)
>>> than dealing with additives.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> on 1/10/13 11:04 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net at frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss
>>>> and the
>>>> shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never
>>>> heard
>>>> of it.
>>>> Frank Krajewski
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Max Heim
>>> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
>>> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
>>> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/frankk12 at verizon.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net

From barrie at look.ca  Thu Jan 10 15:06:26 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:06:26 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com>
Message-ID: <E1TtQwc-00064p-El@gamma.look.ca>

I did a test for Shell and it showed that ZDDP was not needed 
.....................unless you were at full bore for days....and 
even with ZDDP that would wear things !!



At 02:12 PM 1/10/2013 -0500, Stephen West-Fisher wrote:
>At the risk of another war-
>Just buy a good quality oil and forget about the ZDDP. Current oils have
>levels about the same as late 50s, early 60s oils.
>
>--
>Stephen West-Fisher
>N4IK
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
>Behalf Of frankk12 at verizon.net
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:04 PM
>To: MG List
>Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
>
>Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and
>the shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never
>heard of it.
>Frank Krajewski
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From difejo at optonline.net  Thu Jan 10 16:07:57 2013
From: difejo at optonline.net (John Di Fede)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:07:57 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3288.1357856654.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3288.1357856654.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <2BE61313960F4B83B1BAD857F21F7CE8@GATEWAY>

I use Shell Rotella oil.   Originally designed for diesel engines it has
increased levels of ZDDP.  It is available in gallon containers in your
local auto store or at Wal-Mart.


John DiFede

1973 MGB
***

From dave at ranteer.com  Thu Jan 10 16:53:02 2013
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:53:02 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <C1C9E118CF044C0AAA848373722AC2BD@Datsun>

I believe that valvoline racing oil has zddp.

-----Original Message----- 
From: frankk12 at verizon.net
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:04 PM
To: MG List
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP

Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and 
the
shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never 
heard
of it.
Frank Krajewski 

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Jan 10 17:13:38 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:13:38 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CD145429.426A5%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CD149932.426E7%mvheim@sonic.net>

The reason I recommended this specific oil is because I have a spec sheet
listing the zinc and phosphorus content of all Mobil 1 grades. I am not
relying on hearsay.

If you are interested, Here is a link to the document:

http://www.markheim.net/files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

You can also find it by Googling the document title, but I couldn't
copy-and-paste that link.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires




on 1/10/13 11:19 AM, Max Heim at mvheim at sonic.net wrote:

> Mobil 1 Synthetic in the 15W-50 weight ONLY contains 1200ppm of phosphorus
> and 1300ppm of zinc ("recommended for racing and flat tappet applications").
> I switched to this oil for my vintage cars once I discovered this fact. It's
> expensive ($8+/qt), but probably less expensive (and certainly less hassle)
> than dealing with additives.
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/10/13 11:04 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net at frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
> 
>> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and
>> the
>> shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never heard
>> of it.
>> Frank Krajewski
> 
>> 
> 
> --
> 
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Jan 10 17:14:54 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:14:54 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <C1C9E118CF044C0AAA848373722AC2BD@Datsun>
Message-ID: <CD14997E.426E8%mvheim@sonic.net>

But you will find that racing oil is not recommended for day-to-day use.

I have used it for break-in, and for track day.

on 1/10/13 3:53 PM, Dave at dave at ranteer.com wrote:

> I believe that valvoline racing oil has zddp.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frankk12 at verizon.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:04 PM
> To: MG List
> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
> 
> Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and
> the
> shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never
> heard
> of it.
> Frank Krajewski 

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Thu Jan 10 18:25:32 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:25:32 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP scam?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3288.1357856654.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3288.1357856654.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <74C2DC48-66FC-4473-8309-C8057C925519@duvallvideo.com>

Marketers will sell you anything they think you will buy.....   break in an
engine to harden cam and tappets with break in oil and forget it.....

A couple of GM engineers wrote this peer reviewed paper

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Jan 10 18:46:01 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:46:01 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP scam?
In-Reply-To: <74C2DC48-66FC-4473-8309-C8057C925519@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <CD14AED9.426F7%mvheim@sonic.net>

How was it a "scam" when all motor oil produced over a period of a decade or
two included ZDDP as an antiwear additive, as a matter of course, without
any particular advertising or marketing emphasis?

It was like lead in gas -- everyone did it because it worked, and because if
they didn't, their product would not perform as well as the competition.

The "scam" is that the manufacturers unilaterally removed it (for good
reasons, in terms of modern pollution-controlled vehicles, but still...),
without issuing any disclaimers for users of older vehicles, until they
started receiving complaints. Only now are manufacturers releasing
information about the Z and P levels, and it's because of the outcry.

But no one is forcing you to pay any attention to the issue -- run those new
low-viscosity, zero-zinc oils if you want to.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 1/10/13 5:25 PM, Duvall Video Productions at mike at duvallvideo.com wrote:

> Marketers will sell you anything they think you will buy.....   break in an
> engine to harden cam and tappets with break in oil and forget it.....
> 
> A couple of GM engineers wrote this peer reviewed paper

From eugeneb at nni.com  Thu Jan 10 19:45:48 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:45:48 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CD145429.426A5%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <web-477893169@admin.nni.com>

Valvoline VR-1 racing oil in  20W50 supposedly has the ZDDP
required.  I get mine at my local NAPA.  

Be aware - there is a track and a road version.  You want
the road version. Meets all of other automotive
requirements for additives and detergents, etc

http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/racing/racing-motor-oil/6

Safety Fast!

Gene 

80 B


On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:19:05 -0800
 Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
> Mobil 1 Synthetic in the 15W-50 weight ONLY contains
> 1200ppm of phosphorus
> and 1300ppm of zinc ("recommended for racing and flat
> tappet applications").
> I switched to this oil for my vintage cars once I
> discovered this fact. It's
> expensive ($8+/qt), but probably less expensive (and
> certainly less hassle)
> than dealing with additives.
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/10/13 11:04 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net at
> frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable?
> I checked MOss and the
> > shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA
> store has never heard
> > of it.
> > Frank Krajewski
> 
> > 
> 
> --
> 
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider.
http://www.nni.com/

From dave at ranteer.com  Thu Jan 10 21:08:47 2013
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 22:08:47 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <web-477893169@admin.nni.com>
References: <web-477893169@admin.nni.com>
Message-ID: <C062BAB3125A4F49998B573A76812EDF@Datsun>

I use that too

-----Original Message----- 
From: Eugene Balinski 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:45 PM 
To: Max Heim ; MG List 
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP 

Valvoline VR-1 racing oil in  20W50 supposedly has the ZDDP
required.  I get mine at my local NAPA.  

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Fri Jan 11 01:23:02 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:23:02 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com>
Message-ID: <CCB2CBD9C42D477E993F7A17407132F2@paul>

They certainly do not.  Opinion, for what that's worth, reckons 1200-1300ppm 
is what is needed as a minimum.  Formulations for modern engines contain 
significantly less phosphorus and zinc as they reduce the life of the 
exhaust catalyst and are perceived to be harmful to the environment. 
Generally speaking the later the API spec the lower the phosphorus and zinc. 
It also varies with manufacturer, product and market.  The claims from some 
manufacturers are also very suspect, one claiming that theirs meets the 
latest API spec i.e. SM but has higher levels of zinc.  50s oils like 
Castrol XL API SE also aren't as good for our engines as later 70s API SJ 
formulations.  There is a huge amount of information and misinformation out 
there.  API SJ for Diesel engine is probably one of the best as it contains 
more of the required additives to protect the little ends in those engines. 
For a specific in the UK Comma Sonic contains about 2000ppm.

OTOH, as stated a good quality oil of a suitable formulation and viscosity 
isn't going to do much harm.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Just buy a good quality oil and forget about the ZDDP. Current oils have
> levels about the same as late 50s, early 60s oils.

From don at napanet.net  Fri Jan 11 02:07:01 2013
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 01:07:01 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] interesting early MGB
Message-ID: <mailman.3328.1357895432.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>

Check out the latest addition to the Early MGB website:

<http://earlymgb.com/Huntley_page.html>http://earlymgb.com/Huntley_page.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Don Scott
Calistoga CA USA
1955 MGTF
1962 MGA Mk 2
1967 MGB
1963-7 MGB (seeking)
Misc. Japanese cars

From qualitas.jack at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 06:40:07 2013
From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:40:07 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
Message-ID: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene racing oil contains
ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.

They used to advertise it in large letters on the front label, but it now
it is a fine print notice on the back. You either have to have a sharp
salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.

Jack, who won't leave home without it.

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Fri Jan 11 07:03:53 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:03:53 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CCB2CBD9C42D477E993F7A17407132F2@paul>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com>
	<CCB2CBD9C42D477E993F7A17407132F2@paul>
Message-ID: <00af01cdf004$7da84e90$78f8ebb0$@com>

Look up the formulations of 50s and early 60s oils, you will find the levels
of ZDDP are about the same as modern oils. Levels went up in the late 60s.

I prefer to go by testable facts, not opinions. Otherwise I would believe
the world ended last month.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK
-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of PaulHunt73
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:23 AM
To: 'MG List'
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

They certainly do not.  

From dcouncill at msubillings.edu  Fri Jan 11 07:22:14 2013
From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:22:14 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087046A@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>

The ZDDP conversations on this list have probably exceeded other illustrious
topics such as towing with driveline attached or not or even pros/cons on
weber carbs. The primary solution is the one Jack mentions - using Valvoline
VR1 racing oil. The problem, at least for me, is that 20W50 is not practical
for this time of year as I switch to 10W40 in the winter due to cold weather.
And it looks like it is only available as 20W50. Currently it is 10 F outside.
Yes, I drive my "fair weather" daily driver 64B when it is this cold out if it
is dry weather. Single digit or below zero temps or snow will keep the B
parked while I use my Land Rover - like today as we have about 3" of fresh
snow in an ongoing storm with 6-10" predicted by tomorrow.

David Councill

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Jack Feldman
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:40 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene racing oil contains
ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.

They used to advertise it in large letters on the front label, but it now it
is a fine print notice on the back. You either have to have a sharp
salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.

Jack, who won't leave home without it.

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Fri Jan 11 07:01:10 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:01:10 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
References: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C773B0DFF39F4391893974448FC986B9@paul>

At least two people have.

They all contain ZDDP to a greater to lesser extent.  The Valvolene VR1 that 
is available in the UK comes in those cheap plastic containers that 
reclaimed oil is sold in, one 5L I bought only contained a gallon, and at 
least one of my engines got nosier when I used it.  I'm also very suspicious 
of some of their advertising claims, and wouldn't touch it again with a 
barge-pole.  My 2 penn'orth.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene racing oil contains
> ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.

From eugeneb at nni.com  Fri Jan 11 08:15:38 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:15:38 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <web-477995112@admin.nni.com>

Actually, I did.  I use the VR-1 in 20W-50  for my 80 B as
does my friend with his 53 TD

Gene 

80 B



On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:40:07 -0600
 Jack Feldman <qualitas.jack at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene
> racing oil contains
> ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.
> 
> They used to advertise it in large letters on the front
> label, but it now
> it is a fine print notice on the back. You either have to
> have a sharp
> salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.
> 
> Jack, who won't leave home without it.
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dcouncill at msubillings.edu  Fri Jan 11 08:48:24 2013
From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:48:24 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <1357918554.38409.YahooMailNeo@web164905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087046A@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>
	<1357918554.38409.YahooMailNeo@web164905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087054F@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>

Not usually. But when I took it to a glass shop to replace windshield and
seals when I was fixing it up two years ago, I did drive it home, top off
during a snow storm with temps in the teens. It was a memorable experience and
got lots of stares as I drove down main street.

A month ago I brought the 64B in the garage to fix a few things including
anemic heat. I didn't realize until then that the very early MGBs actually
have flaps to shut the heater outlet in the floor area. And mine were shut.
I'll have to check my 67BGT and see if I have them as Moss indicates that they
may have been used up until 1970 -
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29084&SortOrder
=390
Normally, like on my 72B, you have part 50 (plastic heater outlet piece). But
it looks like part 45 of which they have a pdf accessible for info on an
aftermarket replacement. A nice feature.

David Councill

From: Dan DiBiase [mailto:d_dibiase at yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Councill, David; MG list
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

But the real question, David, is - do you keep the top down?? ;-)

Dan D
'76 B
'65 B
central NJ USA

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Fri Jan 11 09:15:09 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:15:09 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3356.1357913256.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3356.1357913256.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <9B8D91E1-8921-425D-A372-90E637239F00@duvallvideo.com>

Max it is a scam in that the internet is a modern network of bad information
that marketers can take advantage of.  From a statistical standpoint a few
problems on the net is antidotal.

When the Society of Automotive Engineers publishes a paper saying 960 ppm is
enough  and everyone sells break in oils for new cam/tappets,  then marketers
are preying on you.


I'm curious if the study Barrie mentions below was published anywhere....


Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:06:26 -0500
From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
To: "Stephen West-Fisher" <steve at coastaldatasystems.com>, "'MG List'"
	<mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
Message-ID: <E1TtQwc-00064p-El at gamma.look.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I did a test for Shell and it showed that ZDDP was not needed
.....................unless you were at full bore for days....and
even with ZDDP that would wear things !!






On Jan 11, 2013, at 8:07 AM, mgs-request at autox.team.net wrote:

> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:46:01 -0800
> From: Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net>
> To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP scam?
> Message-ID: <CD14AED9.426F7%mvheim at sonic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> How was it a "scam" when all motor oil produced over a period of a decade
or
> two included ZDDP as an antiwear additive, as a matter of course, without
> any particular advertising or marketing emphasis?

From melfrankus at carolina.rr.com  Fri Jan 11 09:34:23 2013
From: melfrankus at carolina.rr.com (melfrankus at carolina.rr.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:34:23 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <9B8D91E1-8921-425D-A372-90E637239F00@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <20130111163424.FQQCV.249357.root@cdptpa-web17-z01>

Wow this zzdp is a conversation starter.  I get hi milage hd 10w/40 and a bottle of zzdp additive @  autozone.   I pour almost half the in engine bottle contents in the gas tank when full and balance in engine at oil change.  I don't really know if that is correct and don't advise or advocate this. I drive the mgbgt on local errands year round and occasionally 400 miles round trip to the beach.  The engine has not been apart in over 50,000 miles.  ..Mel
---- 
Duvall Video Productions <mike at duvallvideo.comthis zzdp > wrote: 
> Max it is a scam in that the internet is a modern network of bad information
> that marketers can take advantage of.  From a statistical standpoint a few
> problems on the net is antidotal.
> 
> When the Society of Automotive Engineers publishes a paper saying 960 ppm is
> enough  and everyone sells break in oils for new cam/tappets,  then marketers
> are preying on you.
> 
> 
> I'm curious if the study Barrie mentions below was published anywhere....
> 
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:06:26 -0500
> From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
> To: "Stephen West-Fisher" <steve at coastaldatasystems.com>, "'MG List'"
> 	<mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
> Message-ID: <E1TtQwc-00064p-El at gamma.look.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> I did a test for Shell and it showed that ZDDP was not needed
> .....................unless you were at full bore for days....and
> even with ZDDP that would wear things !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 8:07 AM, mgs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:46:01 -0800
> > From: Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net>
> > To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP scam?
> > Message-ID: <CD14AED9.426F7%mvheim at sonic.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > How was it a "scam" when all motor oil produced over a period of a decade
> or
> > two included ZDDP as an antiwear additive, as a matter of course, without
> > any particular advertising or marketing emphasis?
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/melfrankus at carolina.rr.com

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Fri Jan 11 09:59:14 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:59:14 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
References: <20130111163424.FQQCV.249357.root@cdptpa-web17-z01>
Message-ID: <7281EB0AA13940A08347AF45B207FE48@paul>

ZDDP goes in the *engine*, not the fuel tank.  You may be thinking of lead 
replacement additive.  But half in each is really weird.

----- Original Message ----- 
> ...I get hi milage hd 10w/40 and a bottle of zzdp additive @  autozone. 
> I pour almost half the in engine bottle contents in the gas tank 

From mvheim at sonic.net  Fri Jan 11 11:01:21 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:01:21 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087046A@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>
Message-ID: <CD159371.42738%mvheim@sonic.net>

If you ignore the stipulation that racing oil is not suitable for street
use...

The Mobil1 15w-50 is a street oil. This weight would be more suitable for
winter use, too.


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 1/11/13 6:22 AM, Councill, David at dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote:

> The ZDDP conversations on this list have probably exceeded other illustrious
> topics such as towing with driveline attached or not or even pros/cons on
> weber carbs. The primary solution is the one Jack mentions - using Valvoline
> VR1 racing oil. The problem, at least for me, is that 20W50 is not practical
> for this time of year as I switch to 10W40 in the winter due to cold weather.
> And it looks like it is only available as 20W50. Currently it is 10 F outside.
> Yes, I drive my "fair weather" daily driver 64B when it is this cold out if it
> is dry weather. Single digit or below zero temps or snow will keep the B
> parked while I use my Land Rover - like today as we have about 3" of fresh
> snow in an ongoing storm with 6-10" predicted by tomorrow.
> 
> David Councill
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
> Of Jack Feldman
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:40 AM
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
> 
> I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene racing oil contains
> ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.
> 
> They used to advertise it in large letters on the front label, but it now it
> is a fine print notice on the back. You either have to have a sharp
> salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.
> 
> Jack, who won't leave home without it.

From mvheim at sonic.net  Fri Jan 11 11:04:59 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:04:59 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <9B8D91E1-8921-425D-A372-90E637239F00@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <CD15944B.4273A%mvheim@sonic.net>

Well, personal experience counts for more than "antidotal" [sic] information
in my book. So after replacing the cam and lifters I am taking the issue
very seriously. I wonder, was the SAE testing a 1960s-era flat tappet
engine? Or just performing laboratory wear tests on a jig?

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 1/11/13 8:15 AM, Duvall Video Productions at mike at duvallvideo.com wrote:

> Max it is a scam in that the internet is a modern network of bad information
> that marketers can take advantage of.  From a statistical standpoint a few
> problems on the net is antidotal.
> 
> When the Society of Automotive Engineers publishes a paper saying 960 ppm is
> enough  and everyone sells break in oils for new cam/tappets,  then marketers
> are preying on you.
> 
> 
> I'm curious if the study Barrie mentions below was published anywhere....
> 
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:06:26 -0500
> From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
> To: "Stephen West-Fisher" <steve at coastaldatasystems.com>, "'MG List'"
> <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
> Message-ID: <E1TtQwc-00064p-El at gamma.look.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> I did a test for Shell and it showed that ZDDP was not needed
> .....................unless you were at full bore for days....and
> even with ZDDP that would wear things !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 8:07 AM, mgs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
>> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:46:01 -0800
>> From: Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net>
>> To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP scam?
>> Message-ID: <CD14AED9.426F7%mvheim at sonic.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>> 
>> How was it a "scam" when all motor oil produced over a period of a decade
> or
>> two included ZDDP as an antiwear additive, as a matter of course, without
>> any particular advertising or marketing emphasis?

From mvheim at sonic.net  Fri Jan 11 11:06:18 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:06:18 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <7281EB0AA13940A08347AF45B207FE48@paul>
Message-ID: <CD15949A.4273B%mvheim@sonic.net>

Perhaps the comment was tongue-in-cheek...

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 1/11/13 8:59 AM, PaulHunt73 at paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com wrote:

> ZDDP goes in the *engine*, not the fuel tank.  You may be thinking of lead
> replacement additive.  But half in each is really weird.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> ...I get hi milage hd 10w/40 and a bottle of zzdp additive @  autozone.
>> I pour almost half the in engine bottle contents in the gas tank 

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Fri Jan 11 12:06:49 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:06:49 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <CD15944B.4273A%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <9B8D91E1-8921-425D-A372-90E637239F00@duvallvideo.com>
	<CD15944B.4273A%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <011601cdf02e$ceec31c0$6cc49540$@com>

Let's also not miss the point that it was a salvage yard engine previously
overhauled by a group more renown for penny-pinching than high quality in
their later years.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Max Heim
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:05 PM
To: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12

Well, personal experience counts for more than "antidotal" [sic] information
in my book. So after replacing the cam and lifters I am taking the issue
very seriously. I wonder, was the SAE testing a 1960s-era flat tappet
engine? Or just performing laboratory wear tests on a jig?

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From dave at ranteer.com  Fri Jan 11 12:07:42 2013
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:07:42 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CD159371.42738%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <CD159371.42738%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <E7FFD803235A4D129FC7C8D06DD031A0@Datsun>

im pretty sure they say it is not for street use because it doesn't meet the 
pollution etc requirements - i.e., it has zddp in it

-----Original Message----- 
From: Max Heim
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:01 PM
To: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

If you ignore the stipulation that racing oil is not suitable for street
use...

The Mobil1 15w-50 is a street oil. This weight would be more suitable for
winter use, too.


-- 

From dave at ranteer.com  Fri Jan 11 12:15:12 2013
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:15:12 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <00af01cdf004$7da84e90$78f8ebb0$@com>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k><024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com><CCB2CBD9C42D477E993F7A17407132F2@paul>
	<00af01cdf004$7da84e90$78f8ebb0$@com>
Message-ID: <865F77481EBF48FDB08C9D44F49E7674@Datsun>

so you are saying that this article is "misinformation on the internet"?

http://classiccars.about.com/od/maintenancetips/a/Zddp-Debunking-The-Urban-Legend-This-Motor-Oil-Additive.htm

or this one  http://www.macysgarage.com/myweb6/ZDDP.htm



-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephen West-Fisher
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:03 AM
To: 'MG List'
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

Look up the formulations of 50s and early 60s oils, you will find the levels
of ZDDP are about the same as modern oils. Levels went up in the late 60s.

I prefer to go by testable facts, not opinions. Otherwise I would believe
the world ended last month.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK
-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of PaulHunt73
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:23 AM
To: 'MG List'
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

They certainly do not.
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/dave at ranteer.com 

From barrie at look.ca  Fri Jan 11 12:23:31 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:23:31 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <9B8D91E1-8921-425D-A372-90E637239F00@duvallvideo.com>
References: <mailman.3356.1357913256.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
	<9B8D91E1-8921-425D-A372-90E637239F00@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <E1TtkCQ-0002M4-UO@alpha.look.ca>

Folks,

I have no idea if Shell did anything with the results - I have a 
feeling that it was for their own consumption.  I am very fond of 
Shell because I got sponsorship from them when, as an idiot, 
I  messed around with TR2s which were then all the rage (oh god, that 
dates me!).  But Mike is right - the advertising industry has turned 
a knowledge and data base open facility ( the Internet) into advert 
delivery system - just as it did with television.  On top of that it 
plunged sport into a morass of eye blinding adverts and irritating visions.

Engineering knowledge is the only thing we can rely on - but then how 
do you find unbiased engineering comments?


At 10:15 AM 11/01/2013 -0600, Duvall Video Productions wrote:
>Max it is a scam in that the internet is a modern network of bad information
>that marketers can take advantage of.  From a statistical standpoint a few
>problems on the net is antidotal.
>
>When the Society of Automotive Engineers publishes a paper saying 960 ppm is
>enough  and everyone sells break in oils for new cam/tappets,  then marketers
>are preying on you.
>
>
>I'm curious if the study Barrie mentions below was published anywhere....
>
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:06:26 -0500
>From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
>To: "Stephen West-Fisher" <steve at coastaldatasystems.com>, "'MG List'"
>         <mgs at autox.team.net>
>Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
>Message-ID: <E1TtQwc-00064p-El at gamma.look.ca>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>I did a test for Shell and it showed that ZDDP was not needed
>.....................unless you were at full bore for days....and
>even with ZDDP that would wear things !!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Jan 11, 2013, at 8:07 AM, mgs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>
> > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:46:01 -0800
> > From: Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net>
> > To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP scam?
> > Message-ID: <CD14AED9.426F7%mvheim at sonic.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> > How was it a "scam" when all motor oil produced over a period of a decade
>or
> > two included ZDDP as an antiwear additive, as a matter of course, without
> > any particular advertising or marketing emphasis?
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Fri Jan 11 12:32:19 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:32:19 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <865F77481EBF48FDB08C9D44F49E7674@Datsun>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k><024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com><CCB2CBD9C42D477E993F7A17407132F2@paul>
	<00af01cdf004$7da84e90$78f8ebb0$@com>
	<865F77481EBF48FDB08C9D44F49E7674@Datsun>
Message-ID: <012101cdf032$5f697430$1e3c5c90$@com>

Yup.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:15 PM
To: 'MG List'
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

so you are saying that this article is "misinformation on the internet"?

http://classiccars.about.com/od/maintenancetips/a/Zddp-Debunking-The-Urban-L
egend-This-Motor-Oil-Additive.htm

or this one  http://www.macysgarage.com/myweb6/ZDDP.htm

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Fri Jan 11 12:44:44 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:44:44 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3383.1357927819.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3383.1357927819.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <356A6B00-5493-4CDB-A623-1A2A9A204D0B@duvallvideo.com>

Max,  Did you follow the manufacturers instructions for break in?  Crane cams
doesn't say you need to use special additives forever with only that you use
break in oils......



CRANE FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT RECOMMENDED BREAK-IN PROCEDURE
Due to the EPAs mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat
tappet camshaft break-in procedure is more critical than ever before. This is
true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet Camshafts. As a point of
interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the
first 20 minutes of break-in during which the bottoms of the tappets
mate-in with the cam lobes.

On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:10 PM, mgs-request at autox.team.net wrote:

>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:04:59 -0800
> From: Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net>
> To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
> Message-ID: <CD15944B.4273A%mvheim at sonic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Well, personal experience counts for more than "antidotal" [sic]
information
> in my book. So after replacing the cam and lifters I am taking the issue
> very seriously. I wonder, was the SAE testing a 1960s-era flat tappet
> engine? Or just performing laboratory wear tests on a jig?

From eugeneb at nni.com  Fri Jan 11 13:01:00 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:01:00 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CD159371.42738%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <web-478053060@admin.nni.com>

IMHO  Valvoline VR-1 is suitable for the street IF you
purchase the street version.  It has all of the additivives
for the various SAE ratings.  Per the web site,

"Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is a family of race-proven
lubricants formulated to provide high load carrying
characteristics, minimum foaming and maximum resistance to
thermal degradation. Exclusive chemistry reduces internal
friction and enhances power output under extreme service
conditions. Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is recommended
for engines burning gasoline and full or partial alcohol
fuels in track and street service. Valvoline VR-1 Racing
Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV
where API SN is recommended(see proper viscosity grade
below)."


API SN/SM/SL-               20W-50
API SH *             10W-30 20W-50
API CD/CF            10W-30 20W-50

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf


Please point out if I am missing something...

Gene 
80 B



On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:01:21 -0800
 Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
> If you ignore the stipulation that racing oil is not
> suitable for street
> use...
> 
> The Mobil1 15w-50 is a street oil. This weight would be
> more suitable for
> winter use, too.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
> 
> 
> on 1/11/13 6:22 AM, Councill, David at
> dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote:
> 
> > The ZDDP conversations on this list have probably
> exceeded other illustrious
> > topics such as towing with driveline attached or not or
> even pros/cons on
> > weber carbs. The primary solution is the one Jack
> mentions - using Valvoline
> > VR1 racing oil. The problem, at least for me, is that
> 20W50 is not practical
> > for this time of year as I switch to 10W40 in the
> winter due to cold weather.
> > And it looks like it is only available as 20W50.
> Currently it is 10 F outside.
> > Yes, I drive my "fair weather" daily driver 64B when it
> is this cold out if it
> > is dry weather. Single digit or below zero temps or
> snow will keep the B
> > parked while I use my Land Rover - like today as we
> have about 3" of fresh
> > snow in an ongoing storm with 6-10" predicted by
> tomorrow.
> > 
> > David Councill
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net
> [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
> > Of Jack Feldman
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:40 AM
> > To: mgs at autox.team.net
> > Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
> > 
> > I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene
> racing oil contains
> > ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.
> > 
> > They used to advertise it in large letters on the front
> label, but it now it
> > is a fine print notice on the back. You either have to
> have a sharp
> > salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.
> > 
> > Jack, who won't leave home without it.
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From barrie at look.ca  Fri Jan 11 12:55:54 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:55:54 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <00af01cdf004$7da84e90$78f8ebb0$@com>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com>
	<CCB2CBD9C42D477E993F7A17407132F2@paul>
	<00af01cdf004$7da84e90$78f8ebb0$@com>
Message-ID: <E1Ttl32-0000eB-Cy@iota.look.ca>

Stephen,

If anyone though the end of the world would be on the 21st Dec then 
they are stupid.  It obvious from all the products one can buy from 
stationers, and those gifts sent to us by banks, insurance companies 
and those "professional" :-) real estate sales people, show that the 
end will be on the 31st December 2013.   I mean how can anyone doubt 
it?  Every one of those calender things ends on that date, so how can 
that date be wrong?


At 09:03 AM 11/01/2013 -0500, Stephen West-Fisher wrote:
>Look up the formulations of 50s and early 60s oils, you will find the levels
>of ZDDP are about the same as modern oils. Levels went up in the late 60s.
>
>I prefer to go by testable facts, not opinions. Otherwise I would believe
>the world ended last month.
>
>--
>Stephen West-Fisher
>N4IK
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
>Behalf Of PaulHunt73
>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:23 AM
>To: 'MG List'
>Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
>
>They certainly do not.
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From riverside at southslope.net  Fri Jan 11 13:39:28 2013
From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside at southslope.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:39:28 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <E1Ttl32-0000eB-Cy@iota.look.ca>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k><024301cdef66$76b79da0$6426d8e0$@com><CCB2CBD9C42D477E993F7A17407132F2@paul><00af01cdf004$7da84e90$78f8ebb0$@com>
	<E1Ttl32-0000eB-Cy@iota.look.ca>
Message-ID: <FC24B2AF6F7A4AC48F87D628F1474FC7@rileyPC>

I wonder what the cam grinders recommend for
break in oil and post break in oils.

art de armond

-----Original Message----- 
From: Barrie Robinson
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:55 PM
To: Stephen West-Fisher ; 'MG List'
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

Stephen,

If anyone though the end of the world would be on the 21st Dec then
they are stupid.  It obvious from all the products one can buy from
stationers, and those gifts sent to us by banks, insurance companies
and those "professional" :-) real estate sales people, show that the
end will be on the 31st December 2013.   I mean how can anyone doubt
it?  Every one of those calender things ends on that date, so how can
that date be wrong?


At 09:03 AM 11/01/2013 -0500, Stephen West-Fisher wrote:
>Look up the formulations of 50s and early 60s oils, you will find the 
>levels
>of ZDDP are about the same as modern oils. Levels went up in the late 60s.
>
>I prefer to go by testable facts, not opinions. Otherwise I would believe
>the world ended last month.
>
>--
>Stephen West-Fisher
>N4IK
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
>Behalf Of PaulHunt73
>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:23 AM
>To: 'MG List'
>Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
>
>They certainly do not.
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net



-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6025 - Release Date: 01/11/13 

From runner01 at wowway.com  Thu Jan 10 17:11:18 2013
From: runner01 at wowway.com (Ray Graham)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:11:18 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <C1C9E118CF044C0AAA848373722AC2BD@Datsun>
References: <6CC07A1ABB0247669C78EB570549AF7F@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<C1C9E118CF044C0AAA848373722AC2BD@Datsun>
Message-ID: <001f01cdef90$2f25fc00$8d71f400$@wowway.com>

Yep, Valvoline 20-50 racing oil is what I use.
Ray Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:53 PM
To: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP

I believe that valvoline racing oil has zddp.

-----Original Message-----
From: frankk12 at verizon.net
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:04 PM
To: MG List
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP

Has anyone found a  source for ZDDP that is reasonable? I checked MOss and
the shipping is 50% of the cost of the ZDDP.  My local NAPA store has never
heard of it.
Frank Krajewski
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/runner01 at wowway.com

From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 11 13:16:39 2013
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:16:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087054F@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>
References: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087046A@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>
	<1357918554.38409.YahooMailNeo@web164905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087054F@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>
Message-ID: <1357935399.82234.YahooMailNeo@web164905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I did drive my '76 once in a snow flurry, top down. That was fun.

Dan D
'76 B
'65 B
Central NJ USA




________________________________
 From: "Councill,
David" <dcouncill at msubillings.edu>
To: Dan DiBiase <d_dibiase at yahoo.com>; MG
list <mgs at autox.team.net> 
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:48 AM
Subject:
RE: [Mgs] ZDDP
 

 
Not usually. But when I took it to a glass shop to replace
windshield and seals when I was fixing it up two years ago, I did drive it
home, top off during a snow storm with temps in the teens. It was a memorable
experience and got lots of stares as I drove down main street.
B 
A month ago
I brought the 64B in the garage to fix a few things including anemic heat. I
didnbt realize until then that the very early MGBs actually have flaps to
shut the heater outlet in the floor area. And mine were shut. Ibll have to
check my 67BGT and see if I have them as Moss indicates that they may have
been used up until 1970 b
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29084&SortOrder
=390
Normally, like on my 72B, you have part 50 (plastic heater outlet piece).
But it looks like part 45 of which they have a pdf accessible for info on an
aftermarket replacement. A nice feature.
B 
David Councill 
B 
From:Dan
DiBiase [mailto:d_dibiase at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Councill, David; MG list
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
B 
But the real question,
David, is - do you keep the top down?? ;-)

Dan D
'76 B
'65 B
central NJ USA

From mvheim at sonic.net  Fri Jan 11 17:33:38 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:33:38 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <E7FFD803235A4D129FC7C8D06DD031A0@Datsun>
Message-ID: <CD15EF62.4278B%mvheim@sonic.net>

No, it would be because it doesn't contain detergents and anti-sludge
addititves, since it assumes you will be changing it after every outing.

They had Racing Oil before this whole catalytic converter thing cropped up,
you know.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 1/11/13 11:07 AM, Dave at dave at ranteer.com wrote:

> im pretty sure they say it is not for street use because it doesn't meet the
> pollution etc requirements - i.e., it has zddp in it
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Max Heim
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:01 PM
> To: MG List
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
> 
> If you ignore the stipulation that racing oil is not suitable for street
> use...
> 
> The Mobil1 15w-50 is a street oil. This weight would be more suitable for
> winter use, too.

From mvheim at sonic.net  Fri Jan 11 17:39:16 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:39:16 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <356A6B00-5493-4CDB-A623-1A2A9A204D0B@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <CD15F0B4.4278D%mvheim@sonic.net>

I didn't break in the original cam -- the engine was used when I got it. It
lasted a considerable period of time, using Castrol 20w-50 before that was
reformulated. At some time after that, it suffered fairly rapid
deterioration. Not necessarily cause and effect, I grant you, but I'm taking
it as a data point.

I used dino oil WITH ZDDP as well as cam lube on the replacement, and
followed the break-in procedures. So far so good.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 1/11/13 11:44 AM, Duvall Video Productions at mike at duvallvideo.com wrote:

> Max,  Did you follow the manufacturers instructions for break in?  Crane cams
> doesn't say you need to use special additives forever with only that you use
> break in oils......
> 
> 
> 
> CRANE FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT RECOMMENDED BREAK-IN PROCEDURE
> Due to the EPAs mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat
> tappet camshaft break-in procedure is more critical than ever before. This is
> true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet Camshafts. As a point of
> interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the
> first 20 minutes of break-in during which the bottoms of the tappets
> mate-in with the cam lobes.
> 
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:10 PM, mgs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:04:59 -0800
>> From: Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net>
>> To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12
>> Message-ID: <CD15944B.4273A%mvheim at sonic.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>> 
>> Well, personal experience counts for more than "antidotal" [sic]
> information
>> in my book. So after replacing the cam and lifters I am taking the issue
>> very seriously. I wonder, was the SAE testing a 1960s-era flat tappet
>> engine? Or just performing laboratory wear tests on a jig?

From mvheim at sonic.net  Fri Jan 11 18:03:42 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:03:42 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <web-478053060@admin.nni.com>
Message-ID: <CD15F66E.42797%mvheim@sonic.net>

Well, that looks fine. But what's the "racing" version, then? Does the label
read "VR-1 Racing Racing Oil"? Weird marketing...

I'm not sure that everyone is talking about the same stuff here, though.
VR-1 is synthetic, right? But Valvoline also sells a dino racing oil.


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 1/11/13 12:01 PM, Eugene Balinski at eugeneb at nni.com wrote:

>
>
> IMHO  Valvoline VR-1 is suitable for the street IF you
> purchase the street version.  It has all of the additivives
> for the various SAE ratings.  Per the web site,
>
> "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is a family of race-proven
> lubricants formulated to provide high load carrying
> characteristics, minimum foaming and maximum resistance to
> thermal degradation. Exclusive chemistry reduces internal
> friction and enhances power output under extreme service
> conditions. Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is recommended
> for engines burning gasoline and full or partial alcohol
> fuels in track and street service. Valvoline VR-1 Racing
> Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV
> where API 3SN2 is recommended(see proper viscosity grade
> below)."
>
>
> API SN/SM/SL-               20W-50
> API SH *             10W-30 20W-50
> API CD/CF            10W-30 20W-50
>
> http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
>
>
> Please point out if I am missing something...
>
> Gene
> 80 B
>
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:01:21 -0800
>  Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
>> If you ignore the stipulation that racing oil is not
>> suitable for street
>> use...
>>
>> The Mobil1 15w-50 is a street oil. This weight would be
>> more suitable for
>> winter use, too.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
>> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
>> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>>
>>
>> on 1/11/13 6:22 AM, Councill, David at
>> dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote:
>>
>>> The ZDDP conversations on this list have probably
>> exceeded other illustrious
>>> topics such as towing with driveline attached or not or
>> even pros/cons on
>>> weber carbs. The primary solution is the one Jack
>> mentions - using Valvoline
>>> VR1 racing oil. The problem, at least for me, is that
>> 20W50 is not practical
>>> for this time of year as I switch to 10W40 in the
>> winter due to cold weather.
>>> And it looks like it is only available as 20W50.
>> Currently it is 10 F outside.
>>> Yes, I drive my "fair weather" daily driver 64B when it
>> is this cold out if it
>>> is dry weather. Single digit or below zero temps or
>> snow will keep the B
>>> parked while I use my Land Rover - like today as we
>> have about 3" of fresh
>>> snow in an ongoing storm with 6-10" predicted by
>> tomorrow.
>>>
>>> David Councill
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net
>> [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
>>> Of Jack Feldman
>>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:40 AM
>>> To: mgs at autox.team.net
>>> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
>>>
>>> I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene
>> racing oil contains
>>> ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.
>>>
>>> They used to advertise it in large letters on the front
>> label, but it now it
>>> is a fine print notice on the back. You either have to
>> have a sharp
>>> salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.
>>>
>>> Jack, who won't leave home without it.
>> _______________________________________________

From eugeneb at nni.com  Fri Jan 11 18:16:12 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:16:12 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CD15F66E.42797%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <web-478087997@admin.nni.com>

Hi Max,

VR-1 is a conventional oil.  

There is a road version and a track-only version.  

I believe that they call it racing oil because of added
anti-foam and ZDDP.  Only a guess though....

Safety Fast,

     Gene 

80 B

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:03:42 -0800
 Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
> Well, that looks fine. But what's the "racing" version,
> then? Does the label
> read "VR-1 Racing Racing Oil"? Weird marketing...
> 
> I'm not sure that everyone is talking about the same
> stuff here, though.
> VR-1 is synthetic, right? But Valvoline also sells a dino
> racing oil.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
> 
> 
> 
> on 1/11/13 12:01 PM, Eugene Balinski at eugeneb at nni.com
> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > IMHO  Valvoline VR-1 is suitable for the street IF you
> > purchase the street version.  It has all of the
> additivives
> > for the various SAE ratings.  Per the web site,
> >
> > "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is a family of
> race-proven
> > lubricants formulated to provide high load carrying
> > characteristics, minimum foaming and maximum resistance
> to
> > thermal degradation. Exclusive chemistry reduces
> internal
> > friction and enhances power output under extreme
> service
> > conditions. Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is
> recommended
> > for engines burning gasoline and full or partial
> alcohol
> > fuels in track and street service. Valvoline VR-1
> Racing
> > Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or
> SUV
> > where API 3SN2 is recommended(see proper viscosity
> grade
> > below)."
> >
> >
> > API SN/SM/SL-               20W-50
> > API SH *             10W-30 20W-50
> > API CD/CF            10W-30 20W-50
> >
> > http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
> >
> >
> > Please point out if I am missing something...
> >
> > Gene
> > 80 B
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:01:21 -0800
> >  Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
> >> If you ignore the stipulation that racing oil is not
> >> suitable for street
> >> use...
> >>
> >> The Mobil1 15w-50 is a street oil. This weight would
> be
> >> more suitable for
> >> winter use, too.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Max Heim
> >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> >> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
> >>
> >>
> >> on 1/11/13 6:22 AM, Councill, David at
> >> dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote:
> >>
> >>> The ZDDP conversations on this list have probably
> >> exceeded other illustrious
> >>> topics such as towing with driveline attached or not
> or
> >> even pros/cons on
> >>> weber carbs. The primary solution is the one Jack
> >> mentions - using Valvoline
> >>> VR1 racing oil. The problem, at least for me, is that
> >> 20W50 is not practical
> >>> for this time of year as I switch to 10W40 in the
> >> winter due to cold weather.
> >>> And it looks like it is only available as 20W50.
> >> Currently it is 10 F outside.
> >>> Yes, I drive my "fair weather" daily driver 64B when
> it
> >> is this cold out if it
> >>> is dry weather. Single digit or below zero temps or
> >> snow will keep the B
> >>> parked while I use my Land Rover - like today as we
> >> have about 3" of fresh
> >>> snow in an ongoing storm with 6-10" predicted by
> >> tomorrow.
> >>>
> >>> David Councill
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net
> >> [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
> >>> Of Jack Feldman
> >>> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:40 AM
> >>> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> >>> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
> >>>
> >>> I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that
> Valvolene
> >> racing oil contains
> >>> ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.
> >>>
> >>> They used to advertise it in large letters on the
> front
> >> label, but it now it
> >>> is a fine print notice on the back. You either have
> to
> >> have a sharp
> >>> salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.
> >>>
> >>> Jack, who won't leave home without it.
> >> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

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From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 11 08:35:54 2013
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:35:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087046A@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>
References: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA6087046A@BILEXMB02.msubillings.edu>
Message-ID: <1357918554.38409.YahooMailNeo@web164905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

But the real question, David, is - do you keep the top down?? ;-)

Dan D
'76 B
'65 B
central NJ USA




________________________________
 From: "Councill,
David" <dcouncill at msubillings.edu>
To: MG list <mgs at autox.team.net> 
Sent:
Friday, January 11, 2013 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
 
The ZDDP
conversations on this list have probably exceeded other illustrious
topics
such as towing with driveline attached or not or even pros/cons on
weber
carbs. The primary solution is the one Jack mentions - using Valvoline
VR1
racing oil. The problem, at least for me, is that 20W50 is not practical
for
this time of year as I switch to 10W40 in the winter due to cold weather.
And
it looks like it is only available as 20W50. Currently it is 10 F outside.
Yes, I drive my "fair weather" daily driver 64B when it is this cold out if it
is dry weather. Single digit or below zero temps or snow will keep the B
parked while I use my Land Rover - like today as we have about 3" of fresh
snow in an ongoing storm with 6-10" predicted by tomorrow.

David Councill
-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net
[mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of Jack Feldman
Sent: Friday,
January 11, 2013 6:40 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP

I'm
surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene racing oil contains
ZDDP. 
It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.

They used to advertise it in
large letters on the front label, but it now it
is a fine print notice on the
back. You either have to have a sharp
salesperson, or spend time reading the
fine print.

Jack, who won't leave home without it.
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate:
http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
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From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 11 08:41:18 2013
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:41:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <C773B0DFF39F4391893974448FC986B9@paul>
References: <CAGhWe-f5YCfDNco==iQ7iNbrwjc9P-g=bTFB7X_=QC5BpY6r+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<C773B0DFF39F4391893974448FC986B9@paul>
Message-ID: <1357918878.55551.YahooMailNeo@web164906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

What is the difference between racing oil and street oil? Just the ZDDP? Or
are there other reasons they call it 'racing' oil?
I have been using 'old'
Castrol 10w-40 for years, after winning 2 free cases many years ago. I'm
almost at the end of them
and I guess I need to start paying attention to
these discussions about ZDDP now.... ;-)

Dan D
'76 B
'65 B
Central NJ USA
________________________________
 From: PaulHunt73
<paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net 
Sent: Friday, January 11,
2013 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
 
At least two people have.

They all
contain ZDDP to a greater to lesser extent.  The Valvolene VR1 that is
available in the UK comes in those cheap plastic containers that reclaimed oil
is sold in, one 5L I bought only contained a gallon, and at least one of my
engines got nosier when I used it.  I'm also very suspicious of some of their
advertising claims, and wouldn't touch it again with a barge-pole.  My 2
penn'orth.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> I'm surprised that no one
has mentioned that Valvolene racing oil contains
> ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50,
just right for our cars.
_______________________________________________
Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual
donation  $12.75
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From mike at duvallvideo.com  Fri Jan 11 20:45:49 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:45:49 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] VR-1 "racing oil" scam
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3441.1357959352.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.3441.1357959352.1937.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <BF52813E-79E7-4031-B65F-6E80355469B8@duvallvideo.com>

Ok - everything is not a scam but if you real the literature on VR1 it says it
is suitable for "street service"

VALVOLINE VR-1 RACING MOTOR OIL
Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is a family of race-proven lubricants
formulated to provide high load carrying characteristics, minimum foaming and
maximum resistance to thermal degradation. Exclusive chemistry reduces
internal friction and enhances power output under extreme service conditions.
Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is recommended for engines burning gasoline
and full or partial alcohol fuels in track and street service. Valvoline VR-1
Racing Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV where API
SN is recommended(see proper viscosity grade below).
Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is not recommended for use in wet clutches(
use Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil).
The Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil
	The #1 selling Racing Oil of all time and race track proven. 	Protects
against high-temperature deposits for a cleaner engine. 	ZDDP additive
provides tough anti-wear protection. 	Enhanced with fricition modifier to
improve horsepower. 	Formulated with enhanced anti-foam system.
Approvals/Performance Levels
API SN/SM/SL API SH * API CD/CF *
Test
Vis @ 1000C (cSt) Vis @ 400C (cSt) Viscosity Index Spec Gravity @ 600F Density
(lbs/gal) Total Base No.
Flash COC (0C) Pour Point (0C) CCS cP (0C) MRV TP-1 cP (0C) Noack % off @ 250C
Sulfated Ash Zinc/Phosphorus Calcium
Sodium
. * Obsolete category
Viscosity Grade/Other
- - - - - - 10W-30 10W-30
10W-30
11.5 77.0 143 0.8722 7.27 8.5 212 -33 6200(-25C) 20,000(-30C) <15 1 0.14/0.13
0.210 0.049
20W-50 20W-50 20W-50
20W-50
20.5 181.8 132 0.888 7.39 8.5 248 -24 8000(-15C) 27,000(-20C) <15 1 0.14/0.13
0.210 0.049

>
>
>
> No, it would be because it doesn't contain detergents and anti-sludge
> addititves, since it assumes you will be changing it after every outing.
>
> They had Racing Oil before this whole catalytic converter thing cropped up,
> you know.

From eugeneb at nni.com  Sat Jan 12 07:50:28 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:50:28 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <1357918878.55551.YahooMailNeo@web164906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <web-478173430@admin.nni.com>

>From what I understand,  the pure racing (non-street) oil
will generally not have the detergent and other long term
type additives as the lifetime of racing oil is normally
minutes to hours, and nominally less than 500 miles.  It
does not sit in someone's crankcase for months, run for a
few minutes to run to the market at cold temperatures only
to be shut off to sit again when one gets home.

Gene  80 B


On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:41:18 -0800 (PST)
 Dan DiBiase <d_dibiase at yahoo.com> wrote:
> What is the difference between racing oil and street oil?
> Just the ZDDP? Or
> are there other reasons they call it 'racing' oil?
> I have been using 'old'
> Castrol 10w-40 for years, after winning 2 free cases many
> years ago. I'm
> almost at the end of them
> and I guess I need to start paying attention to
> these discussions about ZDDP now.... ;-)
> 
> Dan D
> '76 B
> '65 B
> Central NJ USA
> ________________________________
>  From: PaulHunt73
> <paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com>
> To: mgs at autox.team.net 
> Sent: Friday, January 11,
> 2013 9:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP
>  
> At least two people have.
> 
> They all
> contain ZDDP to a greater to lesser extent.  The
> Valvolene VR1 that is
> available in the UK comes in those cheap plastic
> containers that reclaimed oil
> is sold in, one 5L I bought only contained a gallon, and
> at least one of my
> engines got nosier when I used it.  I'm also very
> suspicious of some of their
> advertising claims, and wouldn't touch it again with a
> barge-pole.  My 2
> penn'orth.
> 
> PaulH.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > I'm surprised that no one
> has mentioned that Valvolene racing oil contains
> > ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50,
> just right for our cars.
> _______________________________________________
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual
> donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums:
> http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
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> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
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From ccrobins at ktc.com  Tue Jan 15 11:45:51 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:45:51 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <003001cdee7f$b9a26f60$2ce74e20$@com>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net><50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net><201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<019c01cdedda$e7ec9f30$b7c5dd90$@us>
	<51323D4C05034D909C6D06B81AD41410@paul>
	<004201cdee7d$de670ab0$9b352010$@us>
	<003001cdee7f$b9a26f60$2ce74e20$@com>
Message-ID: <50F5A3DF.5030207@ktc.com>

Dunno where you got your experience :-)   but every auto repair manual 
_I_'ve read specified clean, lightly oiled bolt threads, with the usual 
exception being spark plugs because they're pre-lubricated.

BTW;  how did you luck into that 1x2 call sign?

DE af5ao
On 1/9/2013 9:41 AM, Stephen West-Fisher wrote:
> I'm not sure of the original premise, my experience is that torque specs are
> given as dry clean threads unless stated otherwise. The addition of Loctite
> or lubricant requires a reduction in torque or the fastener will be
> over-stressed.
>
> --
> Stephen West-Fisher
> N4IK
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of Clayton Kirkwood
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 10:28 AM
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
>
> But can oiled threads be locked with loctite.
>
> Clayton
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of PaulHunt73
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:39 AM
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
>
> Torque specs are usually given for oiled threads.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
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From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Tue Jan 15 12:29:32 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 14:29:32 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
In-Reply-To: <50F5A3DF.5030207@ktc.com>
References: <mailman.1.1357498802.16526.mgs@autox.team.net><50EB8EE1.5010900@comcast.net><201301081440.r08EewRu007490@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<019c01cdedda$e7ec9f30$b7c5dd90$@us>
	<51323D4C05034D909C6D06B81AD41410@paul>
	<004201cdee7d$de670ab0$9b352010$@us>
	<003001cdee7f$b9a26f60$2ce74e20$@com> <50F5A3DF.5030207@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <024601cdf356$a59a1cd0$f0ce5670$@com>

The standard torque values are clean and dry. Some applications specify
oiled, if they don't then they should be dry. The difference is a 25-30%
reduction in torque values if you oil them - unless of course it is
specifically stated to oil them in which case they have already taken it
into account. I have never seen a workshop manual which states that all
torque values are for oiled threads, so I'd appreciate it if you could send
me a reverence.

 

I believe the original question was about big end rod bolts and I believe
(without looking) the torque is specified as oiled.

 

The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the south a
long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.

 

--

Stephen West-Fisher

N4IK

 

From: Charley & Peggy Robinson [mailto:ccrobins at ktc.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:46 PM
To: Stephen West-Fisher
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)

 

Dunno where you got your experience    :-)           but every auto repair
manual  I've read specified clean, lightly oiled bolt threads, with the
usual exception being spark plugs because they're pre-lubricated.

BTW;  how did you luck into that 1x2 call sign?

DE af5ao

On 1/9/2013 9:41 AM, Stephen West-Fisher wrote:

I'm not sure of the original premise, my experience is that torque specs are
given as dry clean threads unless stated otherwise. The addition of Loctite
or lubricant requires a reduction in torque or the fastener will be
over-stressed. 
 
--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK
-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Clayton Kirkwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 10:28 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
 
But can oiled threads be locked with loctite.
 
Clayton
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of PaulHunt73
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 12:39 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] loctite question - (Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5)
 
Torque specs are usually given for oiled threads.
_______________________________________________
 
Mgs at autox.team.net
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From palte at gmx.net  Tue Jan 15 13:02:24 2013
From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:02:24 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
Message-ID: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>

Just wondering (I could not resist):

- Is there a correlation between MG ownership and being a ham?
(apart from possibly, age?)

Bert
70 B

PA0LPS
SA4BRL 




> 
> The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the south
> a
> long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Stephen West-Fisher
> 
> N4IK

From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Jan 15 13:08:33 2013
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:08:33 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <50F5B741.2050603@bradakis.com>

I'm eating a ham and cheese sandwich, does that count?  But then again
I sold my MG a few years back.

mjb.

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Tue Jan 15 13:12:26 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:12:26 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <026601cdf35c$a37950f0$ea6bf2d0$@com>

It's more likely related to email lists - technology in other words.

However my wife has often speculated about computers, airplanes, sailboats,
ham radio, and old English vehicles. She thinks that when you have one, you
are likely to be involved in at least two others and a high likelihood of
all of them. She does have a degree in psychology and I think I have really
just been a long term project. 

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK
-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Bert Palte
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:02 PM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership

Just wondering (I could not resist):

- Is there a correlation between MG ownership and being a ham?
(apart from possibly, age?)

Bert
70 B

PA0LPS
SA4BRL 




> 
> The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the 
> south a long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Stephen West-Fisher
> 
> N4IK
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 15 13:18:27 2013
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike E)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:18:27 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <026601cdf35c$a37950f0$ea6bf2d0$@com>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>,
	<026601cdf35c$a37950f0$ea6bf2d0$@com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W985EB8499626B555AE871B72D0@phx.gbl>

Well, my father was a Navy/Coast Guard signals operator and MG owner.
I was an Army Morse code interceptor and an MG owner.
Of course, that might just be heredity.
-Mike EldredWilmington, VT

1954 MG TF1973 Midget
1977 MGB
1954 M38 Jeep

> From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:12:26 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
>
> It's more likely related to email lists - technology in other words.
>
> However my wife has often speculated about computers, airplanes, sailboats,
> ham radio, and old English vehicles. She thinks that when you have one, you
> are likely to be involved in at least two others and a high likelihood of
> all of them. She does have a degree in psychology and I think I have really
> just been a long term project.
>
> --
> Stephen West-Fisher
> N4IK
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of Bert Palte
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:02 PM
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
>
> Just wondering (I could not resist):
>
> - Is there a correlation between MG ownership and being a ham?
> (apart from possibly, age?)
>
> Bert
> 70 B
>
> PA0LPS
> SA4BRL
>
>
>
>
> >
> > The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the
> > south a long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Stephen West-Fisher
> >
> > N4IK
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/steve at coastaldatasystems.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 15 14:02:03 2013
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:02:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <1358283723.47596.YahooMailNeo@web164906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I've been told I'm a ham....

Dan D
'76 B
'65 B
Central NJ USA
________________________________
 From: Bert Palte <palte at gmx.net>
To:
mgs at autox.team.net 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:02 PM
Subject: [Mgs]
Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
 
Just wondering (I could not resist):

- Is
there a correlation between MG ownership and being a ham?
(apart from
possibly, age?)

Bert
70 B

PA0LPS
SA4BRL 




> 
> The 1x2 is a vanity call,
1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the south
> a
> long, long time ago.
Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Stephen West-Fisher
> 
>
N4IK
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com

From mvheim at sonic.net  Tue Jan 15 13:57:20 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:57:20 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <CD1B02B0.4293B%mvheim@sonic.net>

The first person I knew that had an MG was an amateur actor, so yes...

Actually, I think the "technical" correlation mentioned is only valid for an
earlier generation. The "internet" no longer qualifies as any kind of
technical interest or hobby, any more than using a phone, or a household
appliance.



on 1/15/13 12:02 PM, Bert Palte at palte at gmx.net wrote:

> Just wondering (I could not resist):
> 
> - Is there a correlation between MG ownership and being a ham?
> (apart from possibly, age?)
> 
> Bert
> 70 B
> 
> PA0LPS
> SA4BRL 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the south
>> a
>> long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Stephen West-Fisher
>> 
>> N4IK


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From mark at bradakis.com  Tue Jan 15 14:14:23 2013
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 14:14:23 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <CD1B02B0.4293B%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <CD1B02B0.4293B%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <50F5C6AF.5090309@bradakis.com>

Max Heim wrote:
> The first person I knew that had an MG was an amateur actor, so yes...
>
> Actually, I think the "technical" correlation mentioned is only valid for an
> earlier generation. The "internet" no longer qualifies as any kind of
> technical interest or hobby, any more than using a phone, or a household
> appliance.
>
>

Back in 198? when Team.Net started, you had to be pretty technical.
A long time ago, it seems.

mjb.

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Tue Jan 15 14:13:02 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:13:02 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <CD1B02B0.4293B%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net> <CD1B02B0.4293B%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <028701cdf365$1adc8b00$5095a100$@com>

You are correct about the Internet, but how many of those young
whippersnappers are on an email list? You can't even get a reply from a 30
something on email any more, have to use Facebook :-)

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Max Heim
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:57 PM
To: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership

The first person I knew that had an MG was an amateur actor, so yes...

Actually, I think the "technical" correlation mentioned is only valid for an
earlier generation. The "internet" no longer qualifies as any kind of
technical interest or hobby, any more than using a phone, or a household
appliance.

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 15 14:23:14 2013
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:23:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <1358284994.2304.YahooMailNeo@web163905.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

 From: Bert Palte <palte at gmx.net>


> - Is there a correlation between MG
ownership and being a ham?
> (apart from possibly, age?)
> 

I got my third
class radiophone license in high school and have
worked in commercial
broadcasting, but never amateur.

From crk at godblessthe.us  Tue Jan 15 14:25:56 2013
From: crk at godblessthe.us (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:25:56 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <016301cdf366$ec753350$c55f99f0$@us>

Similar correlation in landrover circles

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Bert Palte
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 12:02 PM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership

Just wondering (I could not resist):

- Is there a correlation between MG ownership and being a ham?
(apart from possibly, age?)

Bert
70 B

PA0LPS
SA4BRL 




> 
> The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the 
> south a long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Stephen West-Fisher
> 
> N4IK
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/crk at godblessthe.us

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 15 14:38:14 2013
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:38:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <CD1B02B0.4293B%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net> <CD1B02B0.4293B%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1358285894.57550.YahooMailNeo@web163902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

 From: Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net>


> Actually, I think the "technical"
correlation mentioned is only valid 
> for an
> earlier generation. The
"internet" no longer qualifies as any kind of
> technical interest or hobby,
any more than using a phone, or a household
> appliance.

I remember that in
the 80s, the assumption was that if someone had access
to a Usenet news feed
or email, they worked in the technology field.  Same
thing with Internet
access up until about 1994 or so.  That reality pretty
much died when AOL
"discovered" the internet and sold access to Usenet and
mailing lists as a
"feature" to their dim-bulb subscribers.  It used to
be that the signal to
noise ratio went way down every September, when a new
class of college
freshmen got network access at their schools.  When AOL
and the other
"consumer" ISPs came on line, every month was September.
That pretty much
killed Usenet. 

From eugeneb at nni.com  Tue Jan 15 16:18:57 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:18:57 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <web-478803509@admin.nni.com>

Yup
73 de K1NR
80 B owner

I know of at least 3 other ham/MG owners locally

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:02:24 +0100
 "Bert Palte" <palte at gmx.net> wrote:
> Just wondering (I could not resist):
> 
> - Is there a correlation between MG ownership and being a
> ham?
> (apart from possibly, age?)
> 
> Bert
> 70 B
> 
> PA0LPS
> SA4BRL 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared
> here in the south
> > a
> > long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Stephen West-Fisher
> > 
> > N4IK
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider.
http://www.nni.com/

From bobmgtd at comcast.net  Tue Jan 15 17:40:49 2013
From: bobmgtd at comcast.net (Bob Donahue)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 19:40:49 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <D5238A6D7FD9415D8BA5E2BC3157826D@yourmb2swywknr>

I'm a radio amateur, ND9B. There is also a couple in the local MG club who 
are radio amateurs, but that's as far as it goes. I get a lot of comments on 
the ham stick mounted to the rear bumper of my MGB. (It was quite a job 
getting the ignition noise out of the car. but it can be done.)

Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s)
Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net
Cars:       52 MGTD - #17639
               71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361
Member:  NEMGTR #11470
               NAMGBR # 7-3336
               Hoosier MGB Club
               Olde Octagons of Indiana

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bert Palte" <palte at gmx.net>
To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:02 PM
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership


> Just wondering (I could not resist):
>
> - Is there a correlation between MG ownership and being a ham?
> (apart from possibly, age?)
>
> Bert
> 70 B
>
> PA0LPS
> SA4BRL
>
>
>
>
>>
>> The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the south
>> a
>> long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Stephen West-Fisher
>>
>> N4IK
> _______________________________________________

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Tue Jan 15 20:28:52 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:28:52 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Send me your colors
In-Reply-To: <79DFFF855A38274EBDDCD04CC4CCB58C20884B5276@LEGSERVER2008.l
	egacymelb.local>
References: <79DFFF855A38274EBDDCD04CC4CCB58C20884B522F@LEGSERVER2008.legacymelb.local>
	<201212180248.qBI2mnVv001213@nlpi162.prodigy.net>
	<79DFFF855A38274EBDDCD04CC4CCB58C20884B5276@LEGSERVER2008.legacymelb.local>
Message-ID: <201301160328.r0G3Sr9P008710@nlpi176.prodigy.net>

I've been two months on this project now (on an off), and have made 
good progress.  I now have pictures of more than half of the standard 
color combinaitons for MGA cars (and dozens of non-standard 
colors).  See here:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/paint/pt140.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/paint/pt142.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/paint/pt150.htm

Has anyone seen MGA in any of the remainaing colors?
Colors still needed:

Alamo Beige with Red/Red seats	 1600M2C
Ash Green with Black/Green seats	 1500C
Ash Green with Grey/Grey seats	 1500R, 1500C
Black with Biege/Biege seats		 1600R, 1600C, 1600M2R, 1600M2C
Black with Red/Red seats		 1600M2R, 1600M2C
Black with Green/Green seats		 1500C
Chariot Red with Beige/Beige seats	 1600R, 1600C, 1600M2R, 1600M2C
Chariot Red with Black/Red seats	 1600C, 1600M2C
Chariot Red with Red/Red seats	 1600M2R, 1600M2C
Dove Grey Red/Red seats		 1600C, 1600M2R, 1600M2C
Glacier Blue with Black/Grey seats	 1500R
Iris Blue with Black/Light Blue seats	 1600C
Old English White with Black/White seats 1600R, 1600M2C
Old English White with Red/Red seats	 1600M2C
Orient Red with Red/Red seats		 1500C
Orient Red with Black/Red seats	 1500C
Tyrolite Green with Black/Green seats	 1500R

      Australian CKD roadsters:
Aintree Green (Chartrues)
Billeroy Blue (Lightning)
Black
BR Green (Racing Green) (New RG)
Dove Grey
Emgee Red (MG Red)
Guan Green
Nurburg White
Orient Red
Tyrolite Green

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Wed Jan 16 00:55:33 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:55:33 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <1358285894.57550.YahooMailNeo@web163902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net> <CD1B02B0.4293B%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<1358285894.57550.YahooMailNeo@web163902.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50F65CF5.5060007@ktc.com>

Spammers killed the parts (model building) of Usenet that I frequented.

CR
On 1/15/2013 3:38 PM, David Breneman wrote:
>   From: Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net>
>
>
>> Actually, I think the "technical"
> correlation mentioned is only valid
>> for an
>> earlier generation. The
> "internet" no longer qualifies as any kind of
>> technical interest or hobby,
> any more than using a phone, or a household
>> appliance.
> I remember that in
> the 80s, the assumption was that if someone had access
> to a Usenet news feed
> or email, they worked in the technology field.  Same
> thing with Internet
> access up until about 1994 or so.  That reality pretty
> much died when AOL
> "discovered" the internet and sold access to Usenet and
> mailing lists as a
> "feature" to their dim-bulb subscribers.  It used to
> be that the signal to
> noise ratio went way down every September, when a new
> class of college
> freshmen got network access at their schools.  When AOL
> and the other
> "consumer" ISPs came on line, every month was September.
> That pretty much
> killed Usenet.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Wed Jan 16 01:00:53 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 02:00:53 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <D5238A6D7FD9415D8BA5E2BC3157826D@yourmb2swywknr>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
	<D5238A6D7FD9415D8BA5E2BC3157826D@yourmb2swywknr>
Message-ID: <50F65E35.7070409@ktc.com>

I've been a LBC owner for decades longer than I've been a Ham, although 
I've been a working  electronics tech all my adult life.

CR


On 1/15/2013 6:40 PM, Bob Donahue wrote:
> I'm a radio amateur, ND9B. There is also a couple in the local MG club 
> who are radio amateurs, but that's as far as it goes. I get a lot of 
> comments on the ham stick mounted to the rear bumper of my MGB. (It 
> was quite a job getting the ignition noise out of the car. but it can 
> be done.)
>
> Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s)
> Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net
> Cars:       52 MGTD - #17639
>               71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361
> Member:  NEMGTR #11470
>               NAMGBR # 7-3336
>               Hoosier MGB Club
>               Olde Octagons of Indiana
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert Palte" <palte at gmx.net>
> To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:02 PM
> Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
>
>
>> Just wondering (I could not resist):
>>
>> - Is there a correlation between MG ownership and being a ham?
>> (apart from possibly, age?)
>>
>> Bert
>> 70 B
>>
>> PA0LPS
>> SA4BRL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The 1x2 is a vanity call, 1x2 and 2x1 calls disappeared here in the 
>>> south
>>> a
>>> long, long time ago. Previously I was N8KTZ and KQ4NO.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Stephen West-Fisher
>>>
>>> N4IK
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Thu Jan 17 11:52:05 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:52:05 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Correlation Ham / MG Ownership
In-Reply-To: <50F65E35.7070409@ktc.com>
References: <20130115200224.12910@gmx.net>
	<D5238A6D7FD9415D8BA5E2BC3157826D@yourmb2swywknr>
	<50F65E35.7070409@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <50F84855.8080303@ktc.com>

Did resistor plugs - presuming you tried them  - make much difference?

CR
> On 1/15/2013 6:40 PM, Bob Donahue wrote:
>>  I get a lot of comments on the ham stick mounted to the rear bumper 
>> of my MGB. (It was quite a job getting the ignition noise out of the 
>> car. but it can be done.)

From schultejim at msn.com  Sat Jan 19 14:39:36 2013
From: schultejim at msn.com (=?utf-8?B?c2NodWx0ZWppbUBtc24uY29t?=)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:39:36 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] =?utf-8?q?Mounting_bolt_for_s=2Eu=2E_fuel_pump?=
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP150272142541BFDCF1D84FDDB110@phx.gbl>

Folks,
I am having trouble finding a bolt that will attach to the s.u. fuel pump which in turn will attach to a bracket on the MG. I have tried fine thread and course thread and none seem to go further then 1 full turn. It looks like fine to me but is it tapered?
Jim in the garage with Sun light fading (-'

Sent via the HTC Vividb", an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

From frankk12 at verizon.net  Sat Jan 19 15:12:35 2013
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:12:35 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
Message-ID: <73C085B4036A43E081D92293A80ABF18@frankdcczr6l6k>

As a follow-up and conclusion to my earlier post requesting information about
sources for ZDDP I offer the latest issue of the MGB Driver  tech issue.  On
page 25 in the article, "Basic B: Adjust Those Vaves",  is a section regarding
the need for ZDDP. One of the sources cited there is the Rislone Oil
Supplement  with ZDDP.  Today I made trip to the local Pep Boys and found the
last two 11 ounce bottles of the product, cost was $9 per bottle.  The author
suggests half a quart which I conclude is 16 ounces. Since each bottle I
bought is 11 ounces I have an ample supply for one of my Bs.
Frank Krajewski

From randell_kegg at msn.com  Sat Jan 19 15:22:21 2013
From: randell_kegg at msn.com (RANDELL KEGG)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:22:21 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP150272142541BFDCF1D84FDDB110@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP150272142541BFDCF1D84FDDB110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL122-W21378053C3B52D2C3A9AB6E8110@phx.gbl>

Jim,The bolt that you need is a is a whitworth bolt. That is why you are
having problems. For some reason SU continued to use some whitworth fasteners
long after it was being phased out by MG.

Randy Kegg

> To: zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk; mgs at autox.team.net
> From: schultejim at msn.com
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:39:36 -0500
> Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
>
> Folks,
> I am having trouble finding a bolt that will attach to the s.u. fuel pump
which in turn will attach to a bracket on the MG. I have tried fine thread and
course thread and none seem to go further then 1 full turn. It looks like fine
to me but is it tapered?
> Jim in the garage with Sun light fading (-'
>
> Sent via the HTC Vividb", an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/randell_kegg at msn.com

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sat Jan 19 15:34:11 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:34:11 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP150272142541BFDCF1D84FDDB110@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP150272142541BFDCF1D84FDDB110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <201301192234.r0JMY8Mg001467@nlpi176.prodigy.net>

The part is AJD6155Z -- Screw, pump to bracket
Hex Head, 1/4-26-BSF X 5/8

BSF is the fine thread series of the BSW 55 degree Whitworth 
threads.  All of the fasteners and fittings in the SU pump are BA, 
BSF or BSP.  It is a throwback to pre-war design, before the Allied 
countries adopted Unified thread standards for the war 
machinery.  They continued making the same fuel pumps after the war, 
so the threads did not change to Unified standard.  The Auster 
windscreen frame and many of the electrical parts are like that.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude
http://MGAguru.com


At 04:39 PM 1/19/2013 -0500, schultejim at msn.com wrote:
>Folks,
>I am having trouble finding a bolt that will attach to the s.u. fuel 
>pump which in turn will attach to a bracket on the MG. I have tried 
>fine thread and course thread and none seem to go further then 1 
>full turn. It looks like fine to me but is it tapered?
>Jim in the garage with Sun light fading (-'
>
>Sent via the HTC Vividb", an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barneymg at mgaguru.com
>
>
>-----
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2638/6034 - Release Date: 01/15/13

From schultejim at msn.com  Sat Jan 19 16:10:51 2013
From: schultejim at msn.com (James Schulte)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:10:51 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>,
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>

So is it 5/8 or 5/16 26 BSF thread?  Barney says 5/8 and Steve says 5/16.
Would a hardware store carry this or do I have to order this special from an
MG supply dealer?
Thanks for the info!!
Jim


Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:59:43 -0800
From: schris51 at att.net
Subject: Re: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
To: zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk

5/16-26 BSF Steve Christiansen
Ol Phartz Partz714-686-1236www.olphartz.comschris51 at att.net


        From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
 To: Magnette group <zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk>
 Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:01 PM
 Subject: Re: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump


5/16 fine 24 seems to be close but is it fine 28? I don't have one of hose to
try.
Jim

Sent via the HTC Vivid, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

----- Reply message -----
From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
To: "Magnette group" <zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk>, "MG List"
<mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 4:39 pm


Folks,
I am having trouble finding a bolt that will attach to the s.u. fuel pump
which in turn will attach to a bracket on the MG. I have tried fine thread and
course thread and none seem to go further then 1 full turn. It looks like fine
to me but is it tapered?
Jim in the garage with Sun light fading (-'

Sent via the HTC Vivid, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sat Jan 19 16:38:24 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:38:24 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <201301192338.r0JNcWa0021054@nlpi162.prodigy.net>

Well, neither one.  What I said was,
AJD6155Z -- Screw, pump to bracket -- Hex Head, 1/4-26-BSF X 5/8
That is 1/4 BSF thread and 5/8 long.


At 06:10 PM 1/19/2013 -0500, James Schulte wrote:
>So is it 5/8 or 5/16 26 BSF thread?  Barney says 5/8 and Steve says 5/16.
>Would a hardware store carry this or do I have to order this special from an
>MG supply dealer?
>....


>Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:59:43 -0800
>From: schris51 at att.net
>....
>5/16-26 BSF Steve Christiansen
>Ol Phartz Partz714-686-1236www.olphartz.comschris51 at att.net


>From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
>  Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:01 PM
>....
>5/16 fine 24 seems to be close but is it fine 28? I don't have one 
>of hose to try.
>....


>From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
>Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 4:39 pm
>....
>I am having trouble finding a bolt that will attach to the s.u. fuel 
>pump which in turn will attach to a bracket on the MG. I have tried 
>fine thread and course thread and none seem to go further then 1 
>full turn. It looks like fine to me but is it tapered?
>....

From paul at ece.rochester.edu  Sat Jan 19 16:41:29 2013
From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:41:29 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>,
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <636AB532-E2DE-48BA-A4BA-697780A140C4@ece.rochester.edu>

If you are going for original , yes order the bolt, if you need to get in in
and running and it is 5/16 I would run a 5/16 24 tap through it and put in a
matching bolt.

paulo
On Jan 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, James Schulte wrote:

> So is it 5/8 or 5/16 26 BSF thread?  Barney says 5/8 and Steve says 5/16.
> Would a hardware store carry this or do I have to order this special from
an
> MG supply dealer?
> Thanks for the info!!
> Jim
>
>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:59:43 -0800
> From: schris51 at att.net
> Subject: Re: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
> To: zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk
>
> 5/16-26 BSF Steve Christiansen
> Ol Phartz Partz714-686-1236www.olphartz.comschris51 at att.net
>
>
>        From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
> To: Magnette group <zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk>
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
>
>
> 5/16 fine 24 seems to be close but is it fine 28? I don't have one of hose
to
> try.
> Jim
>
> Sent via the HTC Vivid, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
> To: "Magnette group" <zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk>, "MG List"
> <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
> Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 4:39 pm
>
>
> Folks,
> I am having trouble finding a bolt that will attach to the s.u. fuel pump
> which in turn will attach to a bracket on the MG. I have tried fine thread
and
> course thread and none seem to go further then 1 full turn. It looks like
fine
> to me but is it tapered?
> Jim in the garage with Sun light fading (-'
>
> Sent via the HTC Vivid, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul at ece.rochester.edu

From schultejim at msn.com  Sat Jan 19 17:02:36 2013
From: schultejim at msn.com (James Schulte)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:02:36 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>,
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>,
	<BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY157-W320955A51E186BC72406FDB100@phx.gbl>

Folks,
My apologizes to Barney Gaylord. He said 1/4 BSF 26 x 5/8 . I misinterpreted
it and only saw the 5/8 which is the length of the bolt. Even at 61 I have not
learned to slow down and read everything. I can't believe in all the bolts I
have taken off the parts cars I've stripped that I don't have these bolts. Oh
well. I guess I will order 2 in my next order.
Old and Cranky (-;
Jim

From: schultejim at msn.com
To: zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk; mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: RE: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:10:51 -0500





So is it 5/8 or 5/16 26 BSF thread?  Barney says 5/8 and Steve says 5/16.
Would a hardware store carry this or do I have to order this special from an
MG supply dealer?
Thanks for the info!!
Jim


Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:59:43 -0800
From: schris51 at att.net
Subject: Re: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
To: zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk

5/16-26 BSF Steve Christiansen
Ol Phartz Partz714-686-1236www.olphartz.comschris51 at att.net


        From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
 To: Magnette group <zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk>
 Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:01 PM
 Subject: Re: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump


5/16 fine 24 seems to be close but is it fine 28? I don't have one of hose to
try.
Jim

Sent via the HTC Vivid, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

----- Reply message -----
From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
To: "Magnette group" <zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk>, "MG List"
<mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 4:39 pm


Folks,
I am having trouble finding a bolt that will attach to the s.u. fuel pump
which in turn will attach to a bracket on the MG. I have tried fine thread and
course thread and none seem to go further then 1 full turn. It looks like fine
to me but is it tapered?
Jim in the garage with Sun light fading (-'

Sent via the HTC Vivid, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

From schultejim at msn.com  Sat Jan 19 17:05:40 2013
From: schultejim at msn.com (James Schulte)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:05:40 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Poem
Message-ID: <BAY157-W593B70ED3C61072CC5C4B8DB100@phx.gbl>

Another year
  has passed
And we're all a little older.
Last summer felt hotter
And
  winter seems much colder.

There was a time not long ago
When life
  was quite a blast.
Now I fully understand
About 'Living in the Past'


We used to go to weddings,
Football games and lunches.
Now we
  go to funeral homes
And after-funeral brunches.
We used to have
  hangovers,
>From parties that were gay.
Now we suffer body aches
And
  wile the night away.

We used to go out dining,
And couldn't get our
  fill.
Now we ask for doggie bags,
Come home and take a pill.

We
  used to often travel
To places near and far.
Now we get sore asses

>From riding in the car.

We used to go to nightclubs
And drink a
  little booze.
Now we stay home at night
And watch the evening news.


That, my friend is how life is,
And now my tale is told.
So,
  enjoy each day and live it up...
Before you're too damned
  old!

Not sure who wrote it but seems appropriate at this time (-:

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sat Jan 19 21:10:20 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 22:10:20 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <BAY157-W320955A51E186BC72406FDB100@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
	<BAY157-W320955A51E186BC72406FDB100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <201301200410.r0K4AIhx007028@nlpi162.prodigy.net>

Jim,

At a casual glance they look a lot like 1/4-28-UNF hex head 
bolts.  So if you didn't know they were Whitworth when you took it 
apart they may be mixed in with other fasteners, or possible tossed 
out if they looked rusty (which most of them are).

Barney


At 07:02 PM 1/19/2013 -0500, James Schulte wrote:
>....
>My apologizes to Barney Gaylord. He said 1/4 BSF 26 x 5/8 . I misinterpreted
>it and only saw the 5/8 which is the length of the bolt. Even at 61 I have not
>learned to slow down and read everything. I can't believe in all the bolts I
>have taken off the parts cars I've stripped that I don't have these bolts. Oh
>well. I guess I will order 2 in my next order.
>....

From mgbob at juno.com  Sun Jan 20 15:21:02 2013
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:21:02 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
Message-ID: <20130120.172102.30674.3@webmail-beta02.vgs.untd.com>

Frank,
  RedLine has a ZDDP additive, $16 for eight ounces, when I bought some. Use
four ounces in the sump.
Bob


---------- Original Message ----------
From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:12:35 -0500

As a follow-up and conclusion to my earlier post requesting information about
sources for ZDDP I offer the latest issue of the MGB Driver  tech issue.  On
page 25 in the article, "Basic B: Adjust Those Vaves",  is a section
regarding
the need for ZDDP. One of the sources cited there is the Rislone Oil
Supplement  with ZDDP.  Today I made trip to the local Pep Boys and found the
last two 11 ounce bottles of the product, cost was $9 per bottle.  The author
suggests half a quart which I conclude is 16 ounces. Since each bottle I
bought is 11 ounces I have an ample supply for one of my Bs.
Frank Krajewski
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Sun Jan 20 21:30:23 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:30:23 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <20130120.172102.30674.3@webmail-beta02.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20130120.172102.30674.3@webmail-beta02.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <50FCC45F.3020106@ktc.com>

Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing oil.

CR
On 1/20/2013 4:21 PM, mgbob at juno.com wrote:
> Frank,
>    RedLine has a ZDDP additive, $16 for eight ounces, when I bought some. Use
> four ounces in the sump.
> Bob
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
> To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:12:35 -0500
>
> As a follow-up and conclusion to my earlier post requesting information about
> sources for ZDDP I offer the latest issue of the MGB Driver  tech issue.  On
> page 25 in the article, "Basic B: Adjust Those Vaves",  is a section
> regarding
> the need for ZDDP. One of the sources cited there is the Rislone Oil
> Supplement  with ZDDP.  Today I made trip to the local Pep Boys and found the
> last two 11 ounce bottles of the product, cost was $9 per bottle.  The author
> suggests half a quart which I conclude is 16 ounces. Since each bottle I
> bought is 11 ounces I have an ample supply for one of my Bs.
> Frank Krajewski
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Sun Jan 20 21:32:57 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:32:57 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <636AB532-E2DE-48BA-A4BA-697780A140C4@ece.rochester.edu>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>,
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
	<636AB532-E2DE-48BA-A4BA-697780A140C4@ece.rochester.edu>
Message-ID: <50FCC4F9.70300@ktc.com>

Pragmatism at it's best, bravo!

CR
On 1/19/2013 5:41 PM, Paul Osborne wrote:
> If you are going for original , yes order the bolt, if you need to get in in
> and running and it is 5/16 I would run a 5/16 24 tap through it and put in a
> matching bolt.
>
> paulo
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, James Schulte wrote:

From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 22:01:21 2013
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:01:21 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <50FCC45F.3020106@ktc.com>
References: <20130120.172102.30674.3@webmail-beta02.vgs.untd.com>
	<50FCC45F.3020106@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <CAEUYfyM52xCJqYm+w-5Qr5qY6v_BeJ2tOvW1J2j2ACOTMC31Jg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson
<ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing oil.

I think that this has already been discussed. Racing oil doesn't have
the detergents and other chemicals  that are necessary when oil is
used over a long period and not just for the duration of a race.

Simon

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Mon Jan 21 02:15:03 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:15:03 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>,
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl><636AB532-E2DE-48BA-A4BA-697780A140C4@ece.rochester.edu>
	<50FCC4F9.70300@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <DB1343D2120542AB9C4133685B585AAF@paul>

Sacrilege more like, get the proper bolt!

----- Original Message ----- 

> Pragmatism at it's best, bravo!
>
> On 1/19/2013 5:41 PM, Paul Osborne wrote:
>> If you are going for original , yes order the bolt, if you need to get in 
>> in
>> and running and it is 5/16 I would run a 5/16 24 tap through it and put 
>> in a
>> matching bolt.

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 21 08:01:07 2013
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:01:07 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <DB1343D2120542AB9C4133685B585AAF@paul>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>,
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl><636AB532-E2DE-48BA-A4BA-697780A140C4@ece.rochester.edu>
	<50FCC4F9.70300@ktc.com> <DB1343D2120542AB9C4133685B585AAF@paul>
Message-ID: <50FD5833.50100@sbcglobal.net>

My thought was DPO in the making...

Charles Hill

On 1/21/2013 3:15 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:
> Sacrilege more like, get the proper bolt!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Pragmatism at it's best, bravo!
>>
>> On 1/19/2013 5:41 PM, Paul Osborne wrote:
>>> If you are going for original , yes order the bolt, if you need to 
>>> get in in
>>> and running and it is 5/16 I would run a 5/16 24 tap through it and 
>>> put in a
>>> matching bolt.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/chillmog at sbcglobal.net

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Mon Jan 21 12:37:29 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:37:29 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <CAEUYfyM52xCJqYm+w-5Qr5qY6v_BeJ2tOvW1J2j2ACOTMC31Jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20130120.172102.30674.3@webmail-beta02.vgs.untd.com>
	<50FCC45F.3020106@ktc.com>
	<CAEUYfyM52xCJqYm+w-5Qr5qY6v_BeJ2tOvW1J2j2ACOTMC31Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50FD98F9.3010006@ktc.com>

You didn't read all the post, maybe.  The VR-1 Racing Oil has all the 
additives for street use.

CR
On 1/20/2013 11:01 PM, Simon Matthews wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson
> <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
>> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing oil.
> I think that this has already been discussed. Racing oil doesn't have
> the detergents and other chemicals  that are necessary when oil is
> used over a long period and not just for the duration of a race.
>
> Simon

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Mon Jan 21 12:47:50 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:47:50 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <50FD5833.50100@sbcglobal.net>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>,
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl><636AB532-E2DE-48BA-A4BA-697780A140C4@ece.rochester.edu>
	<50FCC4F9.70300@ktc.com> <DB1343D2120542AB9C4133685B585AAF@paul>
	<50FD5833.50100@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <50FD9B66.707@ktc.com>

Guilty!  After I bought my current '69 B roadster I became aware that it 
had a Midget fuel pump in it!  This was apparently because a DPO had 
enlarged the passenger-side battery tray to hold a standard 12 volt 
battery.  The Midget pump gave clearance for the bigger battery.  I put 
the correct pump and fuel lines in the car and installed a group 26 
battery.

One thing I didn't worry about was the bolt types that hold things 
together.  My B is a driver, not a concourse car.

CR
On 1/21/2013 9:01 AM, Charles Hill wrote:
> My thought was DPO in the making...
>
> Charles Hill
>
> On 1/21/2013 3:15 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:
>> Sacrilege more like, get the proper bolt!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> Pragmatism at it's best, bravo!
>>>
>>> On 1/19/2013 5:41 PM, Paul Osborne wrote:
>>>> If you are going for original , yes order the bolt, if you need to 
>>>> get in in
>>>> and running and it is 5/16 I would run a 5/16 24 tap through it and 
>>>> put in a
>>>> matching bolt.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/chillmog at sbcglobal.net
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From eugeneb at nni.com  Mon Jan 21 14:54:12 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:54:12 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <CAEUYfyM52xCJqYm+w-5Qr5qY6v_BeJ2tOvW1J2j2ACOTMC31Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <web-480244794@admin.nni.com>

This is WRONG.  Valvoline VR-1 (street version) meets the
requiremets for modern cars.

>From the web site "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is for
use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV where American
Petrolieum Institute (API) SN is recommended"

(http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf

Gene
80 B


On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:01:21 -0800
 Simon Matthews <simon.d.matthews at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson
> <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
> > Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing oil.
> 
> I think that this has already been discussed. Racing oil
> doesn't have
> the detergents and other chemicals  that are necessary
> when oil is
> used over a long period and not just for the duration of
> a race.
> 
> Simon
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

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From mvheim at sonic.net  Mon Jan 21 15:11:41 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:11:41 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <web-480244794@admin.nni.com>
Message-ID: <CD22FD1D.42C07%mvheim@sonic.net>

The reason for the repeated confusion is that in this case, the word
"Racing" is just marketing baloney. VR-1 synthetic "Racing Oil" is
apparently a street oil. I have not seen any reference to two different
grades or types of VR-1 -- just different weights.

Traditional "dino" (non-synthetic) Valvoline Racing Oil is just that --
racing oil, not recommended for street use.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 1/21/13 1:54 PM, Eugene Balinski at eugeneb at nni.com wrote:

> This is WRONG.  Valvoline VR-1 (street version) meets the
> requiremets for modern cars.
> 
> From the web site "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is for
> use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV where American
> Petrolieum Institute (API) SN is recommended"
> 
> (http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
> 
> Gene
> 80 B
> 
> 
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:01:21 -0800
>  Simon Matthews <simon.d.matthews at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson
>> <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
>>> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing oil.
>> 
>> I think that this has already been discussed. Racing oil
>> doesn't have
>> the detergents and other chemicals  that are necessary
>> when oil is
>> used over a long period and not just for the duration of
>> a race.
>> 
>> Simon

From eugeneb at nni.com  Mon Jan 21 19:44:18 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:44:18 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <CD22FD1D.42C07%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <web-480274298@admin.nni.com>

Valvoline VR-1 is a conventional API street approved
**(non-synthetic)** racing oil with ZDDP.  

http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/79

The other version of the VR-1 is apparently called
"non-street legal" oil" per the above.

FROM THE WEB PAGE:
"Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent of zinc and
.12 percent of phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not
Street Legal" Racing Oil which contains .14 percent of zinc
and .13 percent of phosphorus."

Gene 

80B






On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:11:41 -0800
 Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
> The reason for the repeated confusion is that in this
> case, the word
> "Racing" is just marketing baloney. VR-1 synthetic
> "Racing Oil" is
> apparently a street oil. I have not seen any reference to
> two different
> grades or types of VR-1 -- just different weights.
> 
> Traditional "dino" (non-synthetic) Valvoline Racing Oil
> is just that --
> racing oil, not recommended for street use.
> 
> --
> 
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
> 
> 
> on 1/21/13 1:54 PM, Eugene Balinski at eugeneb at nni.com
> wrote:
> 
> > This is WRONG.  Valvoline VR-1 (street version) meets
> the
> > requiremets for modern cars.
> > 
> > From the web site "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is
> for
> > use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV where American
> > Petrolieum Institute (API) SN is recommended"
> > 
> > (http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
> > 
> > Gene
> > 80 B
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:01:21 -0800
> >  Simon Matthews <simon.d.matthews at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Charley & Peggy
> Robinson
> >> <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
> >>> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing
> oil.
> >> 
> >> I think that this has already been discussed. Racing
> oil
> >> doesn't have
> >> the detergents and other chemicals  that are necessary
> >> when oil is
> >> used over a long period and not just for the duration
> of
> >> a race.
> >> 
> >> Simon
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

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From frankk12 at verizon.net  Tue Jan 22 07:08:37 2013
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:08:37 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
References: <20130120.172102.30674.3@webmail-beta02.vgs.untd.com>
	<50FCC45F.3020106@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <55FD15CD0DC0481894049D57B46761B9@frankdcczr6l6k>

CR: If it is engineered for racing is it good for street use? The local Napa 
store only has the racing version and not the street one.
Frank
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" <ccrobins at ktc.com>
To: <mgbob at juno.com>
Cc: <frankk12 at verizon.net>; <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux


> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing oil.
>
> CR
> On 1/20/2013 4:21 PM, mgbob at juno.com wrote:
>> Frank,
>>    RedLine has a ZDDP additive, $16 for eight ounces, when I bought some. 
>> Use
>> four ounces in the sump.
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
>> To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
>> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
>> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:12:35 -0500
>>
>> As a follow-up and conclusion to my earlier post requesting information 
>> about
>> sources for ZDDP I offer the latest issue of the MGB Driver  tech issue. 
>> On
>> page 25 in the article, "Basic B: Adjust Those Vaves",  is a section
>> regarding
>> the need for ZDDP. One of the sources cited there is the Rislone Oil
>> Supplement  with ZDDP.  Today I made trip to the local Pep Boys and found 
>> the
>> last two 11 ounce bottles of the product, cost was $9 per bottle.  The 
>> author
>> suggests half a quart which I conclude is 16 ounces. Since each bottle I
>> bought is 11 ounces I have an ample supply for one of my Bs.
>> Frank Krajewski
>> _______________________________________________
>>>> _______________________________________________

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Tue Jan 22 07:35:18 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:35:18 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
References: <CD22FD1D.42C07%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <A5E2C087727D40F18DA10FCBF316C953@paul>

This is just one of the reasons I won't use it, their advertising smacks too 
much of bull-sh*t.

----- Original Message ----- 
> The reason for the repeated confusion is that in this case, the word
> "Racing" is just marketing baloney. VR-1 synthetic "Racing Oil" is
> apparently a street oil. I have not seen any reference to two different
> grades or types of VR-1 -- just different weights.
>
> Traditional "dino" (non-synthetic) Valvoline Racing Oil is just that --
> racing oil, not recommended for street use.

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Tue Jan 22 13:59:40 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:59:40 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Brand confusion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1358881201.20162.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.1.1358881201.20162.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <C1566BD8-9027-469E-9825-8CFB8F4F532E@duvallvideo.com>

Nothing like brand confusion -----  VR1 is ok but the one called "Specialty
Racing"  labeled "Not Street Legal" indicates it has fewer detergents....  do
you know anyone ticketed for using the wrong oil in their car?  (joke in case
you missed the humor....)


VR1 Racing Oil (VR1)
VR1 racing motor oil provides true race-level protection with an anti-foam
system effective against extreme stress.

Valvoline. Specialty Racing Oil ("Not Street Legal")
Optimized for track-use, specialty racing oil provides increased horsepower
and extreme wear protection.

Valvoline. Racing Synthetic (VR1) Motor Oil
Advanced racing synthetic motor oil is proven to maximize horsepower during
demanding driving conditions.


>
> You didn't read all the post, maybe.  The VR-1 Racing Oil has all the
> additives for street use.
>
> CR
> On 1/20/2013 11:01 PM, Simon Matthews wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson
>> <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
>>> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing oil.
>> I think that this has already been discussed. Racing oil doesn't have
>> the detergents and other chemicals  that are necessary when oil is
>> used over a long period and not just for the duration of a race.
>>
>> Simon

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Tue Jan 22 14:48:04 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:48:04 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <55FD15CD0DC0481894049D57B46761B9@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <20130120.172102.30674.3@webmail-beta02.vgs.untd.com>
	<50FCC45F.3020106@ktc.com>
	<55FD15CD0DC0481894049D57B46761B9@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <50FF0914.10303@ktc.com>

Shucks, the advertising guys can call it whatever they want to. ;-)    
Maybe you need to read the fine print on the jug.

CR
On 1/22/2013 8:08 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
> CR: If it is engineered for racing is it good for street use? The 
> local Napa store only has the racing version and not the street one.
> Frank
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy Robinson" 
> <ccrobins at ktc.com>
> To: <mgbob at juno.com>
> Cc: <frankk12 at verizon.net>; <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
>
>
>> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing oil.
>>
>> CR
>> On 1/20/2013 4:21 PM, mgbob at juno.com wrote:
>>> Frank,
>>>    RedLine has a ZDDP additive, $16 for eight ounces, when I bought 
>>> some. Use
>>> four ounces in the sump.
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>>> From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
>>> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
>>> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:12:35 -0500
>>>
>>> As a follow-up and conclusion to my earlier post requesting 
>>> information about
>>> sources for ZDDP I offer the latest issue of the MGB Driver tech 
>>> issue. On
>>> page 25 in the article, "Basic B: Adjust Those Vaves",  is a section
>>> regarding
>>> the need for ZDDP. One of the sources cited there is the Rislone Oil
>>> Supplement  with ZDDP.  Today I made trip to the local Pep Boys and 
>>> found the
>>> last two 11 ounce bottles of the product, cost was $9 per bottle.  
>>> The author
>>> suggests half a quart which I conclude is 16 ounces. Since each 
>>> bottle I
>>> bought is 11 ounces I have an ample supply for one of my Bs.
>>> Frank Krajewski
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> _______________________________________________

From eugeneb at nni.com  Wed Jan 23 08:08:02 2013
From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 10:08:02 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <50FF0914.10303@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <web-480574982@admin.nni.com>

The local NAPA stores can order the street version.  Just
ask them.  

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:48:04 -0600
 Charley & Peggy Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
> Shucks, the advertising guys can call it whatever they
> want to. ;-)    Maybe you need to read the fine print on
> the jug.
> 
> CR
> On 1/22/2013 8:08 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
> > CR: If it is engineered for racing is it good for
> street use? The 
> > local Napa store only has the racing version and not
> the street one.
> > Frank
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy
> Robinson" 
> > <ccrobins at ktc.com>
> > To: <mgbob at juno.com>
> > Cc: <frankk12 at verizon.net>; <mgs at autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:30 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
> >
> >
> >> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing
> oil.
> >>
> >> CR
> >> On 1/20/2013 4:21 PM, mgbob at juno.com wrote:
> >>> Frank,
> >>>    RedLine has a ZDDP additive, $16 for eight ounces,
> when I bought 
> >>> some. Use
> >>> four ounces in the sump.
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------- Original Message ----------
> >>> From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
> >>> To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
> >>> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
> >>> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:12:35 -0500
> >>>
> >>> As a follow-up and conclusion to my earlier post
> requesting 
> >>> information about
> >>> sources for ZDDP I offer the latest issue of the MGB
> Driver tech 
> >>> issue. On
> >>> page 25 in the article, "Basic B: Adjust Those
> Vaves",  is a section
> >>> regarding
> >>> the need for ZDDP. One of the sources cited there is
> the Rislone Oil
> >>> Supplement  with ZDDP.  Today I made trip to the
> local Pep Boys and 
> >>> found the
> >>> last two 11 ounce bottles of the product, cost was $9
> per bottle.  
> >>> The author
> >>> suggests half a quart which I conclude is 16 ounces.
> Since each 
> >>> bottle I
> >>> bought is 11 ounces I have an ample supply for one of
> my Bs.
> >>> Frank Krajewski
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

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From riverside at southslope.net  Wed Jan 23 14:18:06 2013
From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside at southslope.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:18:06 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
In-Reply-To: <web-480574982@admin.nni.com>
References: <web-480574982@admin.nni.com>
Message-ID: <43F5F7B7FBF941BE90407ABDE8ECC47B@rileyPC>

A visit to the Brad Penn website may be useful to some of you.

art de armond

-----Original Message----- 
From: Eugene Balinski
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 9:08 AM
To: ccrobins at ktc.com ; frankk12 at verizon.net
Cc: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux

The local NAPA stores can order the street version.  Just
ask them.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:48:04 -0600
Charley & Peggy Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
> Shucks, the advertising guys can call it whatever they
> want to. ;-)    Maybe you need to read the fine print on
> the jug.
>
> CR
> On 1/22/2013 8:08 AM, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
> > CR: If it is engineered for racing is it good for
> street use? The
> > local Napa store only has the racing version and not
> the street one.
> > Frank
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley & Peggy
> Robinson"
> > <ccrobins at ktc.com>
> > To: <mgbob at juno.com>
> > Cc: <frankk12 at verizon.net>; <mgs at autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:30 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
> >
> >
> >> Dunno why you guys don't just use Valvoline racing
> oil.
> >>
> >> CR
> >> On 1/20/2013 4:21 PM, mgbob at juno.com wrote:
> >>> Frank,
> >>>    RedLine has a ZDDP additive, $16 for eight ounces,
> when I bought
> >>> some. Use
> >>> four ounces in the sump.
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------- Original Message ----------
> >>> From: <frankk12 at verizon.net>
> >>> To: "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
> >>> Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
> >>> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:12:35 -0500
> >>>
> >>> As a follow-up and conclusion to my earlier post
> requesting
> >>> information about
> >>> sources for ZDDP I offer the latest issue of the MGB
> Driver tech
> >>> issue. On
> >>> page 25 in the article, "Basic B: Adjust Those
> Vaves",  is a section
> >>> regarding
> >>> the need for ZDDP. One of the sources cited there is
> the Rislone Oil
> >>> Supplement  with ZDDP.  Today I made trip to the
> local Pep Boys and
> >>> found the
> >>> last two 11 ounce bottles of the product, cost was $9
> per bottle.
> >>> The author
> >>> suggests half a quart which I conclude is 16 ounces.
> Since each
> >>> bottle I
> >>> bought is 11 ounces I have an ample supply for one of
> my Bs.
> >>> Frank Krajewski
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com

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_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
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Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6050 - Release Date: 01/22/13 

From mgb72 at airmail.net  Wed Jan 23 16:58:18 2013
From: mgb72 at airmail.net (Chad)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:58:18 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
In-Reply-To: <636AB532-E2DE-48BA-A4BA-697780A140C4@ece.rochester.edu>
References: <BLU0-SMTP1957E182D70CE4169F37378DB110@phx.gbl>,
	<1358636383.36956.YahooMailNeo@web180903.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<BAY157-W3164FAED9449BACC3DB82BDB110@phx.gbl>
	<636AB532-E2DE-48BA-A4BA-697780A140C4@ece.rochester.edu>
Message-ID: <00d701cdf9c5$84a21260$8de63720$@net>

That's what I was about to say.  No reason to special order...
Chad

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Paul Osborne
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:41 PM
To: James Schulte
Cc: Mgs at autox.team.net; Magnette ZAZB
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump

If you are going for original , yes order the bolt, if you need to get in in
and running and it is 5/16 I would run a 5/16 24 tap through it and put in a
matching bolt.

paulo
On Jan 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, James Schulte wrote:

> So is it 5/8 or 5/16 26 BSF thread?  Barney says 5/8 and Steve says 5/16.
> Would a hardware store carry this or do I have to order this special
> from
an
> MG supply dealer?
> Thanks for the info!!
> Jim
>
>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:59:43 -0800
> From: schris51 at att.net
> Subject: Re: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
> To: zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk
>
> 5/16-26 BSF Steve Christiansen
> Ol Phartz Partz714-686-1236www.olphartz.comschris51 at att.net
>
>
>        From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
> To: Magnette group <zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk>
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
>
>
> 5/16 fine 24 seems to be close but is it fine 28? I don't have one of
> hose
to
> try.
> Jim
>
> Sent via the HTC Vivid, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "schultejim at msn.com" <schultejim at msn.com>
> To: "Magnette group" <zmagnette at mgcars.org.uk>, "MG List"
> <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Mounting bolt for s.u. fuel pump
> Date: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 4:39 pm
>
>
> Folks,
> I am having trouble finding a bolt that will attach to the s.u. fuel
> pump which in turn will attach to a bracket on the MG. I have tried
> fine thread
and
> course thread and none seem to go further then 1 full turn. It looks
> like
fine
> to me but is it tapered?
> Jim in the garage with Sun light fading (-'
>
> Sent via the HTC Vivid, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation
> $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul at ece.rochester.edu
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
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From mike at duvallvideo.com  Thu Jan 24 12:31:03 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:31:03 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] reading the fine print
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1359054001.27187.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.1.1359054001.27187.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <70D254C3-D3D1-4456-88D4-90248E6C70F1@duvallvideo.com>

I guess most people haven't figured out if they add anything to their oil it
voids the oil manufactures warranty....


http://www.mobil.us/USA-English-LCW/carengineoils_mobil-super-warranty.aspx


>
> A visit to the Brad Penn website may be useful to some of you.
>
> art de armond
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eugene Balinski
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 9:08 AM
> To: ccrobins at ktc.com ; frankk12 at verizon.net
> Cc: MG List
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
>
> The local NAPA stores can order the street version.  Just
> ask them.
>
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:48:04 -0600
> Charley & Peggy Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
>> Shucks, the advertising guys can call it whatever they
>> want to. ;-)    Maybe you need to read the fine print on
>> the jug.

From mvheim at sonic.net  Thu Jan 24 12:41:10 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:41:10 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] reading the fine print
In-Reply-To: <70D254C3-D3D1-4456-88D4-90248E6C70F1@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <CD26CE56.42D80%mvheim@sonic.net>

Huh. I can't imagine anyone has ever collected on an oil manufacturer's
warranty.

Even if you can show receipts for every oil change over the life of the car
(to "prove" you used their oil exclusively), they can always claim you
abused the engine by overrevving it, or running low on coolant, or
something.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 1/24/13 11:31 AM, Duvall Video Productions at mike at duvallvideo.com wrote:

> I guess most people haven't figured out if they add anything to their oil it
> voids the oil manufactures warranty....
> 
> 
> http://www.mobil.us/USA-English-LCW/carengineoils_mobil-super-warranty.aspx
> 
> 
>> 
>> A visit to the Brad Penn website may be useful to some of you.
>> 
>> art de armond
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eugene Balinski
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 9:08 AM
>> To: ccrobins at ktc.com ; frankk12 at verizon.net
>> Cc: MG List
>> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP Redux
>> 
>> The local NAPA stores can order the street version.  Just
>> ask them.
>> 
>> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:48:04 -0600
>> Charley & Peggy Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com> wrote:
>>> Shucks, the advertising guys can call it whatever they
>>> want to. ;-)    Maybe you need to read the fine print on
>>> the jug.

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Fri Jan 25 12:39:54 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:39:54 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Mgs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1359140401.12455.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.1.1359140401.12455.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <660E91F1-0CBC-4FD3-A78F-F205F293F12A@duvallvideo.com>

I can't imagine an individual collecting either  but that doesn't mean
manufacturers want to leave themselves open to class action suits and consumer
advocates by providing phony warranties and products....


>
>
> Huh. I can't imagine anyone has ever collected on an oil manufacturer's
> warranty.
>
> Even if you can show receipts for every oil change over the life of the car
> (to "prove" you used their oil exclusively), they can always claim you
> abused the engine by overrevving it, or running low on coolant, or
> something.
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From scvc70 at epix.net  Mon Jan 28 10:26:02 2013
From: scvc70 at epix.net (Carr&Edwards)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:26:02 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] panel-light rheostat
Message-ID: <813973A702AB47EBBB0F0615BF0366A0@valuedea617bbe>

We recently salvaged a panel-light rheostat from the remains of a B in the
local junkyard, but have been unable to get the shaft to turn -- we presume
it's corroded, as the car had been sitting out, topless, for some time.  Any
suggestions on how to free it up?

Sarah Carr
B/GT in PA

From mvheim at sonic.net  Mon Jan 28 10:54:33 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:54:33 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] panel-light rheostat
In-Reply-To: <813973A702AB47EBBB0F0615BF0366A0@valuedea617bbe>
Message-ID: <CD2BFB59.42ED8%mvheim@sonic.net>

Those things barely worked in the first place. I wouldn't hold out much hope
that it could be revived after corroding into immobility. Sorry.


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 1/28/13 9:26 AM, Carr&Edwards at scvc70 at epix.net wrote:

> We recently salvaged a panel-light rheostat from the remains of a B in the
> local junkyard, but have been unable to get the shaft to turn -- we presume
> it's corroded, as the car had been sitting out, topless, for some time.  Any
> suggestions on how to free it up?
> 
> Sarah Carr
> B/GT in PA
> _______________________________________________

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 11:22:44 2013
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:22:44 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] panel-light rheostat
In-Reply-To: <CD2BFB59.42ED8%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <813973A702AB47EBBB0F0615BF0366A0@valuedea617bbe>
	<CD2BFB59.42ED8%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAD9ek=5f2TWs7kM9kmqcfte8g+KaeTi4opUUnBCWtDyJvJF80Q@mail.gmail.com>

Probably start with naval jelly or other rust eating stuff.
But, I wouldn't hold out much hope in it working.

sent from my Android phone
On Jan 28, 2013 12:10 PM, "Max Heim" <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:

> Those things barely worked in the first place. I wouldn't hold out much
> hope
> that it could be revived after corroding into immobility. Sorry.
>
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>
> on 1/28/13 9:26 AM, Carr&Edwards at scvc70 at epix.net wrote:
>
> > We recently salvaged a panel-light rheostat from the remains of a B in
> the
> > local junkyard, but have been unable to get the shaft to turn -- we
> presume
> > it's corroded, as the car had been sitting out, topless, for some time.
>  Any
> > suggestions on how to free it up?
> >
> > Sarah Carr
> > B/GT in PA
> > _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Mon Jan 28 12:19:40 2013
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:19:40 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] cleaning rheostat
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1359399601.4650.mgs@autox.team.net>
References: <mailman.1.1359399601.4650.mgs@autox.team.net>
Message-ID: <442C8046-5320-4C8C-8CF3-427A3CFB1EF8@duvallvideo.com>

Sarah-  Go to radio shack and get a non-spray can of head cleaner and a can of
tuner or electronics cleaner.  Take the knob off and dump the head cleaner and
the rheostat in the jar and let it soak for at least 24 hours.  Use alcohol if
you can't find head cleaner.

After soaking,  shoot it out really well with the tuner cleaner.  Let it soak
for awhile in the tuner cleaner.

Don't force turn it hard or you could damage the windings.  Keep spraying with
the tuner until it frees up.

Take an ohm meter and test it for function

From wtsnyder at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 28 12:40:59 2013
From: wtsnyder at bellsouth.net (Bill Snyder)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:40:59 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
Message-ID: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>

I have a '66B that I cranked after a 6-month hiatus a few days ago. It
started but ran very rough as if on 3 cylinders. I put in fresh plugs,
checked the dizzy cap and cleaned it contacts as well as the rotor. There
was no change. After re-inspecting the plugs, it appears that the 4th
cylinder was not firing, but the plug was not gas or oil fouled. Laying the
plug out on the block, attached to the plug wire and cranking showed the
plug firing properly, so I am apparently getting no fuel to that cylinder.
Can anyone run me through the procedure to check on that issue? It has
Petronix ignition and has been converted to negative ground. Thanks in
advance.

Bill Snyder

Waynesville, NC

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Mon Jan 28 12:48:48 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:48:48 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
In-Reply-To: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>
References: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>
Message-ID: <022a01cdfd90$7d94e3c0$78beab40$@com>

Since you didn't mention it can we assume you didn't have a strong smell of
fuel when you shut it down?

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Bill Snyder
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 2:41 PM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue

I have a '66B that I cranked after a 6-month hiatus a few days ago. It
started but ran very rough as if on 3 cylinders. I put in fresh plugs,
checked the dizzy cap and cleaned it contacts as well as the rotor. There
was no change. After re-inspecting the plugs, it appears that the 4th
cylinder was not firing, but the plug was not gas or oil fouled. Laying the
plug out on the block, attached to the plug wire and cranking showed the
plug firing properly, so I am apparently getting no fuel to that cylinder.
Can anyone run me through the procedure to check on that issue? It has
Petronix ignition and has been converted to negative ground. Thanks in
advance.

Bill Snyder

Waynesville, NC
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/steve at coastaldatasystems.com

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 13:02:23 2013
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:02:23 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
In-Reply-To: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>
References: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>
Message-ID: <37B5FFD2-B48F-4F63-B061-34986EA720D7@gmail.com>

Check the piston in rear rear carb for free movement. Of that is OK, check the
needle and seat.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:40, "Bill Snyder" <wtsnyder at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> I have a '66B that I cranked after a 6-month hiatus a few days ago. It
> started but ran very rough as if on 3 cylinders. I put in fresh plugs,
> checked the dizzy cap and cleaned it contacts as well as the rotor. There
> was no change. After re-inspecting the plugs, it appears that the 4th
> cylinder was not firing, but the plug was not gas or oil fouled. Laying the
> plug out on the block, attached to the plug wire and cranking showed the
> plug firing properly, so I am apparently getting no fuel to that cylinder.
> Can anyone run me through the procedure to check on that issue? It has
> Petronix ignition and has been converted to negative ground. Thanks in
> advance.
>
> Bill Snyder
>
> Waynesville, NC
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From mvheim at sonic.net  Mon Jan 28 13:05:21 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:05:21 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
In-Reply-To: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>
Message-ID: <CD2C1A01.42EF1%mvheim@sonic.net>

Hmm, seems to me the only way it could not be getting fuel to one cylinder
would be if that intake valve were stuck shut, which would imply one of
several other problems (broken valve stem, rocker, pushrod or lifter; or
wildly out of adjustment).

Did you try checking compression?

Also, did you compare the spark with that of the other cylinders?

Did you try swapping out that spark plug?


on 1/28/13 11:40 AM, Bill Snyder at wtsnyder at bellsouth.net wrote:

> I have a '66B that I cranked after a 6-month hiatus a few days ago. It
> started but ran very rough as if on 3 cylinders. I put in fresh plugs,
> checked the dizzy cap and cleaned it contacts as well as the rotor. There
> was no change. After re-inspecting the plugs, it appears that the 4th
> cylinder was not firing, but the plug was not gas or oil fouled. Laying the
> plug out on the block, attached to the plug wire and cranking showed the
> plug firing properly, so I am apparently getting no fuel to that cylinder.
> Can anyone run me through the procedure to check on that issue? It has
> Petronix ignition and has been converted to negative ground. Thanks in
> advance.
> 
> Bill Snyder
> 
> Waynesville, NC


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From mgbob at juno.com  Mon Jan 28 13:08:15 2013
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:08:15 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] panel-light rheostat
Message-ID: <20130128.150815.6825.2@webmail-beta02.vgs.untd.com>

  Try Liquid Wrench, or equivalent, on the shaft to free it, then use an
electronics cleaner spray (Radio Shack carries it) to clean the contact and
winding inside the porcelain.   Instrument illumination in MGBs is weak, at
best, and the rheostat even at full on seems to dim the lights a bit.  Many
leave the rheostat in place, but connect both incoming and outgoing wires to
the same screw.  Going further in the quest for legible instruments, white
paint inside the housing can help a bit.BobB/GT sulking in the garage, unhappy
with snow and road salt.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Carr&Edwards" <scvc70 at epix.net>
To: "MG list" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Mgs] panel-light rheostat
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:26:02 -0500

We recently salvaged a panel-light rheostat from the remains of a B in the
local junkyard, but have been unable to get the shaft to turn -- we presume
it's corroded, as the car had been sitting out, topless, for some time.  Any
suggestions on how to free it up?

Sarah Carr
B/GT in PA
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From barrie at look.ca  Mon Jan 28 13:12:24 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:12:24 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] cleaning rheostat
In-Reply-To: <442C8046-5320-4C8C-8CF3-427A3CFB1EF8@duvallvideo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1359399601.4650.mgs@autox.team.net>
	<442C8046-5320-4C8C-8CF3-427A3CFB1EF8@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <E1Tzv8H-0005G8-6P@theta.look.ca>

Sarah,

I have restored several such items but yours sounds like toast - best 
to buy a new one !



At 01:19 PM 28/01/2013 -0600, Duvall Video Productions wrote:
>Sarah-  Go to radio shack and get a non-spray can of head cleaner and a can of
>tuner or electronics cleaner.  Take the knob off and dump the head cleaner and
>the rheostat in the jar and let it soak for at least 24 hours.  Use alcohol if
>you can't find head cleaner.
>
>After soaking,  shoot it out really well with the tuner cleaner.  Let it soak
>for awhile in the tuner cleaner.
>
>Don't force turn it hard or you could damage the windings.  Keep spraying with
>the tuner until it frees up.
>
>Take an ohm meter and test it for function
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From wtsnyder at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 28 13:22:11 2013
From: wtsnyder at bellsouth.net (Bill Snyder)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:22:11 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
Message-ID: <000901cdfd95$281c4c30$7854e490$@net>

Related to my earlier query, I have thought for some time about having my
SU's rebuilt. Does anyone have suggestions about who to use and approximate
cost? It has been suggested that I check the rear SU piston for free
movement, and then the needle and seat which I will do, but possibly not
before the weekend.

Bill Snyder

Waynesville, NC

From mvheim at sonic.net  Mon Jan 28 14:08:26 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:08:26 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
In-Reply-To: <000901cdfd95$281c4c30$7854e490$@net>
Message-ID: <CD2C28CA.42F07%mvheim@sonic.net>

There is very little to rebuild in an SU -- if the throttle shaft is not
overly worn, a thorough cleaning and setup with new needles would be about
it. Assuming they aren't as decrepit as mine were, with loose, worn and bent
pieces everywhere.

In theory you could rebush the throttle shafts yourself, but most people
leave that to a specialist.


on 1/28/13 12:22 PM, Bill Snyder at wtsnyder at bellsouth.net wrote:

> Related to my earlier query, I have thought for some time about having my
> SU's rebuilt. Does anyone have suggestions about who to use and approximate
> cost? It has been suggested that I check the rear SU piston for free
> movement, and then the needle and seat which I will do, but possibly not
> before the weekend.
> 
> Bill Snyder
> 
> Waynesville, NC


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 28 15:28:46 2013
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike E)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:28:46 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
In-Reply-To: <000901cdfd95$281c4c30$7854e490$@net>
References: <000901cdfd95$281c4c30$7854e490$@net>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W51C48FB99D466444808AFEB7180@phx.gbl>

Joe Curto comes highly recommended: http://www.joecurto.com/

(NFI, and I don't know him personally.)
-Mike EldredWilmington, Vermont
> From: wtsnyder at bellsouth.net
> To: Mgs at autox.team.net
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:22:11 -0500
> Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
>
> Related to my earlier query, I have thought for some time about having my
> SU's rebuilt. Does anyone have suggestions about who to use and approximate
> cost? It has been suggested that I check the rear SU piston for free
> movement, and then the needle and seat which I will do, but possibly not
> before the weekend.
>
> Bill Snyder
>
> Waynesville, NC
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Mon Jan 28 16:09:36 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:09:36 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
In-Reply-To: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>
References: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>
Message-ID: <51070530.7030307@ktc.com>

If the valve train is working OK, it may be running on only the front 
carb.    I've run into this.

CR
On 1/28/2013 1:40 PM, Bill Snyder wrote:
> I have a '66B that I cranked after a 6-month hiatus a few days ago. It
> started but ran very rough as if on 3 cylinders. I put in fresh plugs,
> checked the dizzy cap and cleaned it contacts as well as the rotor. There
> was no change. After re-inspecting the plugs, it appears that the 4th
> cylinder was not firing, but the plug was not gas or oil fouled. Laying the
> plug out on the block, attached to the plug wire and cranking showed the
> plug firing properly, so I am apparently getting no fuel to that cylinder.
> Can anyone run me through the procedure to check on that issue? It has
> Petronix ignition and has been converted to negative ground. Thanks in
> advance.
>
> Bill Snyder
>
> Waynesville, NC
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From d.mckinnie at usa.net  Mon Jan 28 17:03:33 2013
From: d.mckinnie at usa.net (Douglas McKinnie)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:03:33 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] cleaning rheostat
Message-ID: <965RaCach8400S05.1359417813@web05.cms.usa.net>

Several years ago I purchased a Vellman kit to build a 12V DC PWM motor speed
controller, with the intention of using that to control the brightness my
dash
lights.

But frankly, even though I spend lots of time driving the MG on twisty unlit
roads in the deep woods on moonless stormy nights, I've hardly ever had the
thought "You know, my dash lights are just too bright right now". This for a
person whose first action in a rental car is turning down the dash lights.

Anyway, were I to seek a rheostat for the dash lights today I would probably
buy one of the many 12V PWM speed controllers available on Amazon and Ebay,
with this one merely as an example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130574312785

Douglas
'70 BGT

From james.f.juhas at snet.net  Mon Jan 28 17:31:21 2013
From: james.f.juhas at snet.net (Jim Juhas)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:31:21 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
In-Reply-To: <51070530.7030307@ktc.com>
References: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net> <51070530.7030307@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <724A0328-2E23-4F72-BAB8-84072FF9599D@snet.net>

Another possibility is a valve stuck open in #4. Check compression.

Sent via iPad
Jim Juhas

On Jan 28, 2013, at 6:09 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com>
wrote:

> If the valve train is working OK, it may be running on only the front carb.
I've run into this.
>
> CR
> On 1/28/2013 1:40 PM, Bill Snyder wrote:
>> I have a '66B that I cranked after a 6-month hiatus a few days ago. It
>> started but ran very rough as if on 3 cylinders. I put in fresh plugs,
>> checked the dizzy cap and cleaned it contacts as well as the rotor. There
>> was no change. After re-inspecting the plugs, it appears that the 4th
>> cylinder was not firing, but the plug was not gas or oil fouled. Laying
the
>> plug out on the block, attached to the plug wire and cranking showed the
>> plug firing properly, so I am apparently getting no fuel to that cylinder.
>> Can anyone run me through the procedure to check on that issue? It has
>> Petronix ignition and has been converted to negative ground. Thanks in
>> advance.
>>
>> Bill Snyder
>>
>> Waynesville, NC
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/james.f.juhas at snet.net

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 21:23:20 2013
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:23:20 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
In-Reply-To: <724A0328-2E23-4F72-BAB8-84072FF9599D@snet.net>
References: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net> <51070530.7030307@ktc.com>
	<724A0328-2E23-4F72-BAB8-84072FF9599D@snet.net>
Message-ID: <CACOF-To=gWdKuaVd2AeH=TV0BfNgZLd-ObSHCr+VrqhGa_xc-g@mail.gmail.com>

And the pushrod bandito might have stolen the intake pushrod for #4, but I
would put that about as likely as the #4 valve being stuck open.  Assuming
the engine was OK when parked, I doubt that a valve would get stuck open or
closed without some serious accompanying noises from the motor.  Bill made
no mention of any unusual noises.
A stuck carb on the other hand is quite common, and would not have strange
noises accompanying it.  I have seen this numerous times over the years.
Pull the air cleaners and lift the pistons by hand, do they both rise and
fall the same?  or is the rear piston stiffer to move?
I'll bet 40 quatloos on a carb issue.
Rick


On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Jim Juhas <james.f.juhas at snet.net> wrote:

> Another possibility is a valve stuck open in #4. Check compression.
>
> Sent via iPad
> Jim Juhas
>
> On Jan 28, 2013, at 6:09 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson <ccrobins at ktc.com>
> wrote:
>
> > If the valve train is working OK, it may be running on only the front
> carb.
> I've run into this.
> >
> > CR
> > On 1/28/2013 1:40 PM, Bill Snyder wrote:
> >> I have a '66B that I cranked after a 6-month hiatus a few days ago. It
> >> started but ran very rough as if on 3 cylinders. I put in fresh plugs,
> >> checked the dizzy cap and cleaned it contacts as well as the rotor.
> There
> >> was no change. After re-inspecting the plugs, it appears that the 4th
> >> cylinder was not firing, but the plug was not gas or oil fouled. Laying
> the
> >> plug out on the block, attached to the plug wire and cranking showed the
> >> plug firing properly, so I am apparently getting no fuel to that
> cylinder.
> >> Can anyone run me through the procedure to check on that issue? It has
> >> Petronix ignition and has been converted to negative ground. Thanks in
> >> advance.
> >>
> >> Bill Snyder
> >>
> >> Waynesville, NC
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Mgs at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/james.f.juhas at snet.net
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 00:30:08 2013
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:30:08 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)
Message-ID: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Can someone explain how Valvolene's VR1 meets the (claimed) SN/SM/SL
rating, yet contains the claimed 0.14/0.13 Zinc/Phosphorus? As far as
I can see, any oil rated higher than SL MUST contain less than .12%
Zinc and Phosphorus.

May I offer another solution? Amsoil offers a SG rated 20W50 oil,
which is also rated for diesel engines.

Simon



On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Eugene Balinski <eugeneb at nni.com> wrote:
> IMHO  Valvoline VR-1 is suitable for the street IF you
> purchase the street version.  It has all of the additivives
> for the various SAE ratings.  Per the web site,
>
> "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is a family of race-proven
> lubricants formulated to provide high load carrying
> characteristics, minimum foaming and maximum resistance to
> thermal degradation. Exclusive chemistry reduces internal
> friction and enhances power output under extreme service
> conditions. Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is recommended
> for engines burning gasoline and full or partial alcohol
> fuels in track and street service. Valvoline VR-1 Racing
> Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV
> where API  SN  is recommended(see proper viscosity grade
> below)."
>
>
> API SN/SM/SL-               20W-50
> API SH *             10W-30 20W-50
> API CD/CF            10W-30 20W-50
>
> http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
>
>
> Please point out if I am missing something...
>
> Gene
> 80 B
>
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:01:21 -0800
>  Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
>> If you ignore the stipulation that racing oil is not
>> suitable for street
>> use...
>>
>> The Mobil1 15w-50 is a street oil. This weight would be
>> more suitable for
>> winter use, too.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
>> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
>> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>>
>>
>> on 1/11/13 6:22 AM, Councill, David at
>> dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote:
>>
>> > The ZDDP conversations on this list have probably
>> exceeded other illustrious
>> > topics such as towing with driveline attached or not or
>> even pros/cons on
>> > weber carbs. The primary solution is the one Jack
>> mentions - using Valvoline
>> > VR1 racing oil. The problem, at least for me, is that
>> 20W50 is not practical
>> > for this time of year as I switch to 10W40 in the
>> winter due to cold weather.
>> > And it looks like it is only available as 20W50.
>> Currently it is 10 F outside.
>> > Yes, I drive my "fair weather" daily driver 64B when it
>> is this cold out if it
>> > is dry weather. Single digit or below zero temps or
>> snow will keep the B
>> > parked while I use my Land Rover - like today as we
>> have about 3" of fresh
>> > snow in an ongoing storm with 6-10" predicted by
>> tomorrow.
>> >
>> > David Councill
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net
>> [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
>> > Of Jack Feldman
>> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:40 AM
>> > To: mgs at autox.team.net
>> > Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
>> >
>> > I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene
>> racing oil contains
>> > ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.
>> >
>> > They used to advertise it in large letters on the front
>> label, but it now it
>> > is a fine print notice on the back. You either have to
>> have a sharp
>> > salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.
>> >
>> > Jack, who won't leave home without it.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider.
> http://www.nni.com/
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 00:34:10 2013
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:34:10 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)
In-Reply-To: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEUYfyNrEN9QQUDNH9S2NSpR6R3QiaEUtVcYjcpYpwJ8fP7S4w@mail.gmail.com>

Uh, my mistake. The Amsoil oil is also rated SL -- again, how can this
oil be "high Zinc", if  one of the changes to oil from SF onwards was
the reduction of zinc and phoshorus?

Simon

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:30 PM, Simon Matthews
<simon.d.matthews at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can someone explain how Valvolene's VR1 meets the (claimed) SN/SM/SL
> rating, yet contains the claimed 0.14/0.13 Zinc/Phosphorus? As far as
> I can see, any oil rated higher than SL MUST contain less than .12%
> Zinc and Phosphorus.
>
> May I offer another solution? Amsoil offers a SG rated 20W50 oil,
> which is also rated for diesel engines.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Eugene Balinski <eugeneb at nni.com> wrote:
>> IMHO  Valvoline VR-1 is suitable for the street IF you
>> purchase the street version.  It has all of the additivives
>> for the various SAE ratings.  Per the web site,
>>
>> "Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is a family of race-proven
>> lubricants formulated to provide high load carrying
>> characteristics, minimum foaming and maximum resistance to
>> thermal degradation. Exclusive chemistry reduces internal
>> friction and enhances power output under extreme service
>> conditions. Valvoline VR-1 Racing Motor Oil is recommended
>> for engines burning gasoline and full or partial alcohol
>> fuels in track and street service. Valvoline VR-1 Racing
>> Motor Oil is for use in any car, light truck, van, or SUV
>> where API  SN  is recommended(see proper viscosity grade
>> below)."
>>
>>
>> API SN/SM/SL-               20W-50
>> API SH *             10W-30 20W-50
>> API CD/CF            10W-30 20W-50
>>
>> http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf
>>
>>
>> Please point out if I am missing something...
>>
>> Gene
>> 80 B
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:01:21 -0800
>>  Max Heim <mvheim at sonic.net> wrote:
>>> If you ignore the stipulation that racing oil is not
>>> suitable for street
>>> use...
>>>
>>> The Mobil1 15w-50 is a street oil. This weight would be
>>> more suitable for
>>> winter use, too.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Max Heim
>>> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
>>> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
>>> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>>>
>>>
>>> on 1/11/13 6:22 AM, Councill, David at
>>> dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote:
>>>
>>> > The ZDDP conversations on this list have probably
>>> exceeded other illustrious
>>> > topics such as towing with driveline attached or not or
>>> even pros/cons on
>>> > weber carbs. The primary solution is the one Jack
>>> mentions - using Valvoline
>>> > VR1 racing oil. The problem, at least for me, is that
>>> 20W50 is not practical
>>> > for this time of year as I switch to 10W40 in the
>>> winter due to cold weather.
>>> > And it looks like it is only available as 20W50.
>>> Currently it is 10 F outside.
>>> > Yes, I drive my "fair weather" daily driver 64B when it
>>> is this cold out if it
>>> > is dry weather. Single digit or below zero temps or
>>> snow will keep the B
>>> > parked while I use my Land Rover - like today as we
>>> have about 3" of fresh
>>> > snow in an ongoing storm with 6-10" predicted by
>>> tomorrow.
>>> >
>>> > David Councill
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net
>>> [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
>>> > Of Jack Feldman
>>> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:40 AM
>>> > To: mgs at autox.team.net
>>> > Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP
>>> >
>>> > I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Valvolene
>>> racing oil contains
>>> > ZDDP.  It comes in 20W50, just right for our cars.
>>> >
>>> > They used to advertise it in large letters on the front
>>> label, but it now it
>>> > is a fine print notice on the back. You either have to
>>> have a sharp
>>> > salesperson, or spend time reading the fine print.
>>> >
>>> > Jack, who won't leave home without it.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider.
>> http://www.nni.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Tue Jan 29 01:36:49 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:36:49 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Fuel Issue
References: <000001cdfd8f$665bb810$33132830$@net>
Message-ID: <844B23A4837341F6A54E9B9472E5B741@paul>

On the face of it, if only one cylinder isn't firing it can't be the rear 
carb as that would affect a pair of cylinders.  But the MGB has a large bore 
balance tube joining all four cylinders so it's possible the 3rd cylinder is 
getting just enough mixture from the front carb but the end cylinder isn't. 
If it's only firing on three then you wouldn't really know if the 3rd 
cylinder were firing fully or not.

It's a simple check to tell whether it's fuel or ignition, after running for 
a few moments remove plug 4.  If it's wet or smells strongly of fuel then 
it's ignition.  If it's dry and no fuel smell then it's fuel.

A plug can fire when laying on the block but not when in the cylinder under 
compression pressure if the cap (or other HT component) is marginal and 
breaking down under the higher HT voltage that is required to fire a plug 
under compression.

After having the ignition on for a few moments it's another moments job to 
remove the lid of the float chamber to check you have fuel in there, i.e. it 
isn't a blocked float valve.  If that's OK remove the air cleaners and blow 
gently into the float chamber overflow port you *should* see fuel bubbling 
up the jet in the intake to check the jet pipe and jet aren't blocked.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> ... After re-inspecting the plugs, it appears that the 4th
> cylinder was not firing, but the plug was not gas or oil fouled. 

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Tue Jan 29 02:01:29 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:01:29 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)
References: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CAE282D7B834198A902EC22AAFA31CF@paul>

My thoughts exactly ever since I started looking into this about four years 
ago, which is why I just don't trust it.  Castrol GTX even though sold under 
it's original API spec only seems to contain half the zinc and phosphorus it 
did originally.  I've seen a letter purporting to be from Royal Purple 
stating that RP XPR 10W40 has over 1500-1600 ppm of ZDDP and goes on to say 
"we could take all of the ZDDP out of our engine oils and still have 4 times 
the wear resistance of even the VR-1 oil due to our Synerlec additive 
technology".  It which point the whole thing degenerates into farce.  What 
was apparent when I was looking is that Diesel oils, if they had a petrol 
API rating as well as a Diesel, contained more ZDDP than oils with only that 
petrol rating, but that was also under review.  In the UK I use Comma Sonic 
which is to API SL but has .2% zinc and .19% phosphorus 
http://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/file/367670c3e9a411571893883585a71863

PaulH.


----- Original Message ----- 
> Can someone explain how Valvolene's VR1 meets the (claimed) SN/SM/SL
> rating, yet contains the claimed 0.14/0.13 Zinc/Phosphorus? As far as
> I can see, any oil rated higher than SL MUST contain less than .12%
> Zinc and Phosphorus.

From qualitas.jack at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 06:57:02 2013
From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:57:02 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Hemmings and ZDDP
Message-ID: <CAGhWe-fQ6RKEO4qive-LfrGWTZxwywRdYOChZO+3vRV+LxxBiw@mail.gmail.com>

In the back cover of my Hemmings Sports and Exotics is an ad for Hemmings
brand oil with ZDDP formulated for our cars!!!!!

*Everybody wants to get into the act.*

Jack

From qualitas.jack at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 07:04:30 2013
From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:04:30 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Rheostat, now Bulbs
Message-ID: <CAGhWe-d4QAsmf4weAq-i6h=1RnruDxVVs4K_h6-APRw6FhONyg@mail.gmail.com>

Right now the brightest lights are halogen. They are bright enough. I
thought I saw an ad for bright LEDs that would work in an MG, but can't
remember where. Considering the large LBC market, I'm sure they are coming.

Interestingly, the halogen bulbs (Actually the bulb is the glass portion,
the whole thing is called a lamp, but common usage......) worked fine until
I upgraded my headlamp wiring with relays that took current directly from
the battery. Now they are just as dim as always! Must be a current issue.

Jack

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Tue Jan 29 07:22:57 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:22:57 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Rheostat, now Bulbs
References: <CAGhWe-d4QAsmf4weAq-i6h=1RnruDxVVs4K_h6-APRw6FhONyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <447435B5589C438FB9FC4D75641263C8@paul>

Very current, lots of complaints about it ...

You need to be careful with halogen bulbs in instruments, they run much 
hotter than standard incandescents and can damage them, I've measured them 
at up to 90C compared with 30C for standard 2.2w.  There are a number of 
directly compatible LED types around, I've tried five different types so 
far, but the best are only marginally better than standard - 
http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/led.htm#4, probably because they are all forward 
facing even when multi-element.  If you could get multi-element where the 
elements were arranged around the surface of a cylinder, like LED festoons, 
but small enough to fit they would probably be better.

The best I've seen are 12v LED strips cut into pieces and stuck inside the 
case.  Ironically these are so bright they do need a dimmer, but using LEDs 
renders the standard dimmer useless as the resistance/current/voltage 
characteristic is completely wrong, really you need a pulse unit with 
variable duty-cycle to control the brightness of LEDs.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Right now the brightest lights are halogen. They are bright enough. I
> thought I saw an ad for bright LEDs that would work in an MG, but can't
> remember where. Considering the large LBC market, I'm sure they are 
> coming.

From d_dibiase at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 29 07:27:39 2013
From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:27:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] Hemmings and ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CAGhWe-fQ6RKEO4qive-LfrGWTZxwywRdYOChZO+3vRV+LxxBiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGhWe-fQ6RKEO4qive-LfrGWTZxwywRdYOChZO+3vRV+LxxBiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1359469659.8917.YahooMailNeo@web164905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Approved by Motor Trend, no doubt....

Dan D
'76 B
'65 B
Central NJ USA
________________________________
 From: Jack Feldman <qualitas.jack at gmail.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:57 AM
Subject: [Mgs]
Hemmings and ZDDP
 
In the back cover of my Hemmings Sports and Exotics is an
ad for Hemmings
brand oil with ZDDP formulated for our cars!!!!!

*Everybody
wants to get into the act.*

Jack
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate:
http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive:
http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com

From tink5775 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 07:47:04 2013
From: tink5775 at gmail.com (Jim Tinkham)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:47:04 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Hemmings and ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <1359469659.8917.YahooMailNeo@web164905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGhWe-fQ6RKEO4qive-LfrGWTZxwywRdYOChZO+3vRV+LxxBiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1359469659.8917.YahooMailNeo@web164905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAMTc-pgdYNDDd=upE_xkRC8m9DLKj2SmY3Vf8HXqKLnGTT_izA@mail.gmail.com>

Let's see if this'll work....  The Add Jack is referring to I believe;

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Dan DiBiase <d_dibiase at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Approved by Motor Trend, no doubt....
>
> Dan D
> '76 B
> '65 B
> Central NJ USA
> ________________________________
>  From: Jack Feldman <qualitas.jack at gmail.com>
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:57 AM
> Subject: [Mgs]
> Hemmings and ZDDP
>
> In the back cover of my Hemmings Sports and Exotics is an
> ad for Hemmings
> brand oil with ZDDP formulated for our cars!!!!!
>
> *Everybody
> wants to get into the act.*
>
> Jack
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate:
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive:
> http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/tink5775 at gmail.com

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of HSE1301.jpg]

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Tue Jan 29 12:19:19 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:19:19 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Hemmings and ZDDP
In-Reply-To: <CAGhWe-fQ6RKEO4qive-LfrGWTZxwywRdYOChZO+3vRV+LxxBiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGhWe-fQ6RKEO4qive-LfrGWTZxwywRdYOChZO+3vRV+LxxBiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <510820B7.4080509@ktc.com>

Man, those guys don't miss a thing!

CR
On 1/29/2013 7:57 AM, Jack Feldman wrote:
> In the back cover of my Hemmings Sports and Exotics is an ad for Hemmings
> brand oil with ZDDP formulated for our cars!!!!!
>
> *Everybody wants to get into the act.*
>
> Jack
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Tue Jan 29 12:24:06 2013
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:24:06 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)
In-Reply-To: <7CAE282D7B834198A902EC22AAFA31CF@paul>
References: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAE282D7B834198A902EC22AAFA31CF@paul>
Message-ID: <510821D6.2060504@ktc.com>

You guys are getting me so worried that I may never start my B up 
again.  Maybe I'll just bronze the thing. :-)

CR
On 1/29/2013 3:01 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:
> My thoughts exactly ever since I started looking into this about four 
> years ago, which is why I just don't trust it. Castrol GTX even though 
> sold under it's original API spec only seems to contain half the zinc 
> and phosphorus it did originally. I've seen a letter purporting to be 
> from Royal Purple stating that RP XPR 10W40 has over 1500-1600 ppm of 
> ZDDP and goes on to say "we could take all of the ZDDP out of our 
> engine oils and still have 4 times the wear resistance of even the 
> VR-1 oil due to our Synerlec additive technology".  It which point the 
> whole thing degenerates into farce.  What was apparent when I was 
> looking is that Diesel oils, if they had a petrol API rating as well 
> as a Diesel, contained more ZDDP than oils with only that petrol 
> rating, but that was also under review.  In the UK I use Comma Sonic 
> which is to API SL but has .2% zinc and .19% phosphorus 
> http://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/file/367670c3e9a411571893883585a71863
>
> PaulH.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Can someone explain how Valvolene's VR1 meets the (claimed) SN/SM/SL
>> rating, yet contains the claimed 0.14/0.13 Zinc/Phosphorus? As far as
>> I can see, any oil rated higher than SL MUST contain less than .12%
>> Zinc and Phosphorus.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From paul at ece.rochester.edu  Tue Jan 29 16:46:10 2013
From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:46:10 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <510821D6.2060504@ktc.com>
References: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAE282D7B834198A902EC22AAFA31CF@paul> <510821D6.2060504@ktc.com>
Message-ID: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>

Ok, here we go . I'm going to be the wrench in the works. 6 years ago I fully
rebuilt an 18V engine and placed it service in my 74 BGT. This is a daily
driver, no show car here , nice but a driver.
The clock reads 72000miles. since that time I have done the regular maintance
, a set of brakes and tires . Now I drive about 500miles to my cottage all
most 3 times a month from may to oct.
I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing but running
well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it may
help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my cars.

Oh well.

paul o
On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote:

> You guys are getting me so worried that I may never start my B up again.
Maybe I'll just bronze the thing. :-)
>
> CR
> On 1/29/2013 3:01 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:
>> My thoughts exactly ever since I started looking into this about four years
ago, which is why I just don't trust it. Castrol GTX even though sold under
it's original API spec only seems to contain half the zinc and phosphorus it
did originally. I've seen a letter purporting to be from Royal Purple stating
that RP XPR 10W40 has over 1500-1600 ppm of ZDDP and goes on to say "we could
take all of the ZDDP out of our engine oils and still have 4 times the wear
resistance of even the VR-1 oil due to our Synerlec additive technology".  It
which point the whole thing degenerates into farce.  What was apparent when I
was looking is that Diesel oils, if they had a petrol API rating as well as a
Diesel, contained more ZDDP than oils with only that petrol rating, but that
was also under review.  In the UK I use Comma Sonic which is to API SL but has
.2% zinc and .19% phosphorus
http://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/file/367670c3e9a411571893883585a71863
>>
>> PaulH.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> Can someone explain how Valvolene's VR1 meets the (claimed) SN/SM/SL
>>> rating, yet contains the claimed 0.14/0.13 Zinc/Phosphorus? As far as
>>> I can see, any oil rated higher than SL MUST contain less than .12%
>>> Zinc and Phosphorus.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul at ece.rochester.edu

From chillmog at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 29 16:51:38 2013
From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:51:38 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
References: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CAE282D7B834198A902EC22AAFA31CF@paul> <510821D6.2060504@ktc.com>
	<6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
Message-ID: <5108608A.5020400@sbcglobal.net>

Doesn't the API ratings allow more ZDDP in higher viscosity oils?  I 
thought I read something about that when the ZDDP flack first started.

Charles Hill

On 1/29/2013 5:46 PM, Paul Osborne wrote:
> Ok, here we go . I'm going to be the wrench in the works. 6 years ago I fully
> rebuilt an 18V engine and placed it service in my 74 BGT. This is a daily
> driver, no show car here , nice but a driver.
> The clock reads 72000miles. since that time I have done the regular maintance
> , a set of brakes and tires . Now I drive about 500miles to my cottage all
> most 3 times a month from may to oct.
> I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing but running
> well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it may
> help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
> I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my cars.
>
> Oh well.
>
> paul o
> On Jan 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote:
>
>> You guys are getting me so worried that I may never start my B up again.
> Maybe I'll just bronze the thing. :-)
>> CR
>> On 1/29/2013 3:01 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:
>>> My thoughts exactly ever since I started looking into this about four years
> ago, which is why I just don't trust it. Castrol GTX even though sold under
> it's original API spec only seems to contain half the zinc and phosphorus it
> did originally. I've seen a letter purporting to be from Royal Purple stating
> that RP XPR 10W40 has over 1500-1600 ppm of ZDDP and goes on to say "we could
> take all of the ZDDP out of our engine oils and still have 4 times the wear
> resistance of even the VR-1 oil due to our Synerlec additive technology".  It
> which point the whole thing degenerates into farce.  What was apparent when I
> was looking is that Diesel oils, if they had a petrol API rating as well as a
> Diesel, contained more ZDDP than oils with only that petrol rating, but that
> was also under review.  In the UK I use Comma Sonic which is to API SL but has
> .2% zinc and .19% phosphorus
> http://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/file/367670c3e9a411571893883585a71863
>>> PaulH.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> Can someone explain how Valvolene's VR1 meets the (claimed) SN/SM/SL
>>>> rating, yet contains the claimed 0.14/0.13 Zinc/Phosphorus? As far as
>>>> I can see, any oil rated higher than SL MUST contain less than .12%
>>>> Zinc and Phosphorus.

From mvheim at sonic.net  Tue Jan 29 17:01:19 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 16:01:19 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
Message-ID: <CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>

I just want to point out two things:

- You apparently don't drive very hard.

- You have a low-compression motor.

Higher-performance models used for rallies and track days may have a
completely different experience.

As they say, YMMV...


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 1/29/13 3:46 PM, Paul Osborne at paul at ece.rochester.edu wrote:

> Ok, here we go . I'm going to be the wrench in the works. 6 years ago I fully
> rebuilt an 18V engine and placed it service in my 74 BGT. This is a daily
> driver, no show car here , nice but a driver.
> The clock reads 72000miles. since that time I have done the regular maintance
> , a set of brakes and tires . Now I drive about 500miles to my cottage all
> most 3 times a month from may to oct.
> I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing but running
> well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it may
> help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
> I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my cars.
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> paul o

From mvheim at sonic.net  Tue Jan 29 17:02:33 2013
From: mvheim at sonic.net (Max Heim)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 16:02:33 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <5108608A.5020400@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <CD2DA319.42FB9%mvheim@sonic.net>

I think you may have something there. It's the super-low-viscosity oils that
are intended for the newest vehicles.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 1/29/13 3:51 PM, Charles Hill at chillmog at sbcglobal.net wrote:

> Doesn't the API ratings allow more ZDDP in higher viscosity oils?  I
> thought I read something about that when the ZDDP flack first started.
> 
> Charles Hill

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Tue Jan 29 19:16:11 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:16:11 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
	<CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>

I try not to get involved in religious wars, but I am coming to 
Paul's support here with considerable experience of my own.  I have 
build a number of MGA engines using a Crane Fast Street Cam (with a 
bit of extra lift), Heavy Duty valve springs (more than stock spring 
force), short tappets and long pushrods from the 18V engine, and 
sometimes alloy spring caps (but not always).  A couple of these 
engine I have done for other people, and no complaints from them.  A 
couple of these engine I have run in my own car.  I nearly always 
drive it like I stole it.  I have done lots of competition work in 
SCCA autocross events (and some local club events).   In short, it is 
an uprated engine driven by a heavy foot, sometimes at 7,000 rpm 
during competition.

For build it gets lots of standard grease on the cam and tappets 
(although I would go along with the cam lube recommended by the cam 
manufacturer).  For first run and break in the engine runs 2500 rpm 
for 20 minutes with no load (to run in the tappets).  After re-torque 
it can go racing, right out of the box, although it may take up to 
500 miles for the rings and cylinder walls to loosen up.  I use 20W50 
oil for the break in, change it at 500 miles, then run 20W50 in warm 
weather and 10W40 for a considerable amount of winter driving.  I use 
almost exclusively NAPA brand oil which I think is made by Valvoline, 
nothing special, just regular street car engine oil.  I change oil 
and filter at 4000 mile intervals.

The engine currently in my car now has 88,000 miles, running like a 
champ, and very good cam and tappets.  I have never used any special 
additive in the oil (accent on no additional ZDDP), and I don't 
intend to do so.  I'm sure most of the hype about ZDDP additives is 
over blown and unnecessary.  I'm also sure most of the discussion and 
concern for lowered ZDDP content in modern motor oil is a waste of 
concern (although I wouldn't chastise anyone for adding ZDDP to the 
oil for the break in period of a new engine if it makes them feel good).

I do believe that success and long life of a new cam and flat tappets 
depends greatly on quality of the parts.  I would never trust a 
reground cam to be properly hardened, and I would exercise proper 
concern for procuring good quality tappets with adequate hardness.  I 
firmly believe that most (if not all) of reported premature cam 
failures are a result of sub-standard parts or improper installation, 
and none of it has anything to do with lowered amount of ZDDP in modern oil.

All comments are welcome, as I stand resolutely with Teflon coating 
and asbestos underwear.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude (and 400,000 miles)
http://MGAguru.com


At 04:01 PM 1/29/2013 -0800, Max Heim wrote:
>I just want to point out two things:
>
>- You apparently don't drive very hard.
>
>- You have a low-compression motor.
>
>Higher-performance models used for rallies and track days may have a
>completely different experience.
>
>As they say, YMMV...
>....


>on 1/29/13 3:46 PM, Paul Osborne at paul at ece.rochester.edu wrote:
> > Ok, here we go . I'm going to be the wrench in the works. 6 years 
> ago I fully
> > rebuilt an 18V engine and placed it service in my 74 BGT. This is a daily
> > driver, no show car here , nice but a driver.
> > The clock reads 72000miles. since that time I have done the 
> regular maintance
> > , a set of brakes and tires . Now I drive about 500miles to my cottage all
> > most 3 times a month from may to oct.
> > I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing but running
> > well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it may
> > help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
> > I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my cars.
> > ....

From paul at ece.rochester.edu  Tue Jan 29 19:25:15 2013
From: paul at ece.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 21:25:15 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>
References: <CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <5059C140-08D7-4577-BDBC-B5D6EF356700@ece.rochester.edu>

Exactly what I was saying. for the every day driver of our cars mostly, stock
engine, a good quality oil, and regular changes, what I think most of us have,
this works. As for the race crowd, yes, more protection is needed.       As
for my driving, my overdrive GT with a mild cam gets driven for hours at 70mph
+ on the way up.   In the Adirondacks where the camp is the car gets a nice
work out.  But that is me.

paul o





On Jan 29, 2013, at 7:01 PM, Max Heim wrote:

> I just want to point out two things:
>
> - You apparently don't drive very hard.
>
> - You have a low-compression motor.
>
> Higher-performance models used for rallies and track days may have a
> completely different experience.
>
> As they say, YMMV...
>
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Menlo Park, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>
>
> on 1/29/13 3:46 PM, Paul Osborne at paul at ece.rochester.edu wrote:
>
>> Ok, here we go . I'm going to be the wrench in the works. 6 years ago I
fully
>> rebuilt an 18V engine and placed it service in my 74 BGT. This is a daily
>> driver, no show car here , nice but a driver.
>> The clock reads 72000miles. since that time I have done the regular
maintance
>> , a set of brakes and tires . Now I drive about 500miles to my cottage all
>> most 3 times a month from may to oct.
>> I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing but
running
>> well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it may
>> help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
>> I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my cars.
>>
>> Oh well.
>>
>> paul o
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul at ece.rochester.edu

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Wed Jan 30 01:48:24 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:48:24 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
References: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com><7CAE282D7B834198A902EC22AAFA31CF@paul>
	<510821D6.2060504@ktc.com>
	<6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
Message-ID: <872C21468AF242F59EC74C22CA2F8E2B@paul>

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-172482.html

And while I haven't found that exact quote on the Quaker State site there is 
this:

http://www.quakerstate.com/#/motor-oil/defy on which one of the slides says 
"Quaker State Defy has increased zinc anti-wear agents that target surfaces 
susceptible to high wear while protecting catalytic converter efficiencies."

See what I mean?

----- Original Message ----- 
> I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing but 
> running
> well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it may
> help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
> I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my cars.

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Wed Jan 30 07:30:21 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:30:21 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
References: <CAEUYfyNKKhDTKrKE+iXmHM6mJ5x4WAdrauhp-cBtEjG+AJYUZQ@mail.gmail.com><7CAE282D7B834198A902EC22AAFA31CF@paul>
	<510821D6.2060504@ktc.com>
	<6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
	<872C21468AF242F59EC74C22CA2F8E2B@paul>
	<5715A7B1-DC60-46AC-8EE7-6D70CF4E621B@ece.rochester.edu>
Message-ID: <232137BAE5D54F2ABA360A4A9B6A98B4@paul>

Well that's the point, in the words of the inimitable Sir Patrick Moore - 
"We Just Don't Know".  Like using a lead replacement additive for the little 
cost it is, I chose to use an oil that does claim to have higher ZDDP than 
others.  For the same reason Rolls Royce cars had starting handles longer 
than anything else and men have nipples - just in case.

----- Original Message ----- 

Guess I chose the correct oil 35yrs ago  and did not even know it.

From barrie at look.ca  Wed Jan 30 08:08:15 2013
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:08:15 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
References: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
	<CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <E1U0ZGo-0001Er-8P@theta.look.ca>

Folks,

I am with Barney!  So I will go to Canadian Tire and to get a a 
Teflon coating and buy asbestos underwear (with double acting, non slip flaps)
I have told this story several times already but here it goes again............
Shell used my restored Austin Healey BJ8 with rebuilt engine to test 
wear using their lead free fuel.  They made a special measuring 
device and took enormous care to measure the wear due to my driving 
(reasonably hard but not auto-cross ertc) the car for a 
year.   Result - no measurable wear !




At 08:16 PM 29/01/2013 -0600, Barney Gaylord wrote:
>I try not to get involved in religious wars, but I am coming to 
>Paul's support here with considerable experience of my own.  I have 
>build a number of MGA engines using a Crane Fast Street Cam (with a 
>bit of extra lift), Heavy Duty valve springs (more than stock spring 
>force), short tappets and long pushrods from the 18V engine, and 
>sometimes alloy spring caps (but not always).  A couple of these 
>engine I have done for other people, and no complaints from them.  A 
>couple of these engine I have run in my own car.  I nearly always 
>drive it like I stole it.  I have done lots of competition work in 
>SCCA autocross events (and some local club events).   In short, it 
>is an uprated engine driven by a heavy foot, sometimes at 7,000 rpm 
>during competition.
>
>For build it gets lots of standard grease on the cam and tappets 
>(although I would go along with the cam lube recommended by the cam 
>manufacturer).  For first run and break in the engine runs 2500 rpm 
>for 20 minutes with no load (to run in the tappets).  After 
>re-torque it can go racing, right out of the box, although it may 
>take up to 500 miles for the rings and cylinder walls to loosen 
>up.  I use 20W50 oil for the break in, change it at 500 miles, then 
>run 20W50 in warm weather and 10W40 for a considerable amount of 
>winter driving.  I use almost exclusively NAPA brand oil which I 
>think is made by Valvoline, nothing special, just regular street car 
>engine oil.  I change oil and filter at 4000 mile intervals.
>
>The engine currently in my car now has 88,000 miles, running like a 
>champ, and very good cam and tappets.  I have never used any special 
>additive in the oil (accent on no additional ZDDP), and I don't 
>intend to do so.  I'm sure most of the hype about ZDDP additives is 
>over blown and unnecessary.  I'm also sure most of the discussion 
>and concern for lowered ZDDP content in modern motor oil is a waste 
>of concern (although I wouldn't chastise anyone for adding ZDDP to 
>the oil for the break in period of a new engine if it makes them feel good).
>
>I do believe that success and long life of a new cam and flat 
>tappets depends greatly on quality of the parts.  I would never 
>trust a reground cam to be properly hardened, and I would exercise 
>proper concern for procuring good quality tappets with adequate 
>hardness.  I firmly believe that most (if not all) of reported 
>premature cam failures are a result of sub-standard parts or 
>improper installation, and none of it has anything to do with 
>lowered amount of ZDDP in modern oil.
>
>All comments are welcome, as I stand resolutely with Teflon coating 
>and asbestos underwear.
>
>Barney Gaylord
>1958 MGA with an attitude (and 400,000 miles)
>http://MGAguru.com
>
>
>At 04:01 PM 1/29/2013 -0800, Max Heim wrote:
>>I just want to point out two things:
>>
>>- You apparently don't drive very hard.
>>
>>- You have a low-compression motor.
>>
>>Higher-performance models used for rallies and track days may have a
>>completely different experience.
>>
>>As they say, YMMV...
>>....
>
>
>>on 1/29/13 3:46 PM, Paul Osborne at paul at ece.rochester.edu wrote:
>> > Ok, here we go . I'm going to be the wrench in the works. 6 
>> years ago I fully
>> > rebuilt an 18V engine and placed it service in my 74 BGT. This is a daily
>> > driver, no show car here , nice but a driver.
>> > The clock reads 72000miles. since that time I have done the 
>> regular maintance
>> > , a set of brakes and tires . Now I drive about 500miles to my cottage all
>> > most 3 times a month from may to oct.
>> > I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing 
>> but running
>> > well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it may
>> > help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
>> > I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my cars.
>> > ....
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705-721-9060 

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Wed Jan 30 08:23:18 2013
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:23:18 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <E1U0ZGo-0001Er-8P@theta.look.ca>
References: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
	<CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
	<E1U0ZGo-0001Er-8P@theta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <010301cdfefd$bb3de870$31b9b950$@com>

Yes, unfortunately the marketers are very good at their craft and can get a
lot of people to buy their snake oil. Unless you were running your engines
at very high power/rpm you didn't need to add lead. It didn't hurt, but you
didn't need it. And now they are selling oil additives that haven't been
tested - which means you are the test case. I have less concern over oil
formulated with high ZDDP but you still do not need it. Remember, your
engine was designed when oil had about the same levels as today.

My personal belief for the failures was that when parts started being made
offshore - US or UK - in India and Sri Lanka they were bad. While many of
the workmen are quite skilled, the metallurgy in the area was and still is
very substandard. This exists even today, look at the problems Royal Enfield
is having, although to their credit they are improving.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Barrie Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:08 AM
To: Barney Gaylord; Max Heim; MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??

Folks,

I am with Barney!  So I will go to Canadian Tire and to get a a Teflon
coating and buy asbestos underwear (with double acting, non slip flaps) I
have told this story several times already but here it goes
again............
Shell used my restored Austin Healey BJ8 with rebuilt engine to test wear
using their lead free fuel.  They made a special measuring device and took
enormous care to measure the wear due to my driving (reasonably hard but not
auto-cross ertc) the car for a 
year.   Result - no measurable wear !

From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 09:24:51 2013
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:24:51 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!?? Reply from Amsoil
Message-ID: <CAEUYfyM3dZBC=ENPZ5g9smKUBX6QNcSeOEX8DYuaA-qfvRdPTg@mail.gmail.com>

Some clarification from Amsoil. I assume that Valvolene would say the
same thing. I think someone already suggested that the reduced zinc
and phosphorus in newer standards only applies to low viscosity oils:

Quote:
The Premium 20W-50 (ARO) contains 1379 ppm Zinc and 1266 ppm
phosphorus.  API SL came out in 2001 and became obsolete in 2004,
which was superseded by API SM.  The Phosphorus limitation is .08 and
that only applies to energy conserving oils  that apply to viscosity
grades of 20W and 30W.  Viscosity grades that are not energy
conserving such as 40W or 50W do not carry Zinc or Phosphorus limits
and therefore the amount of ZDDP is irrelevant.  I can safely tell you
that in your engine, either the ARO product or even our Z-Rod oils
would be excellent choices.

End Quote


Simon


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:23 AM, Stephen West-Fisher
<steve at coastaldatasystems.com> wrote:
> Yes, unfortunately the marketers are very good at their craft and can get a
> lot of people to buy their snake oil. Unless you were running your engines
> at very high power/rpm you didn't need to add lead. It didn't hurt, but you
> didn't need it. And now they are selling oil additives that haven't been
> tested - which means you are the test case. I have less concern over oil
> formulated with high ZDDP but you still do not need it. Remember, your
> engine was designed when oil had about the same levels as today.
>
> My personal belief for the failures was that when parts started being made
> offshore - US or UK - in India and Sri Lanka they were bad. While many of
> the workmen are quite skilled, the metallurgy in the area was and still is
> very substandard. This exists even today, look at the problems Royal
Enfield
> is having, although to their credit they are improving.
>
> --
> Stephen West-Fisher
> N4IK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
> Behalf Of Barrie Robinson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:08 AM
> To: Barney Gaylord; Max Heim; MG List
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
>
> Folks,
>
> I am with Barney!  So I will go to Canadian Tire and to get a a Teflon
> coating and buy asbestos underwear (with double acting, non slip flaps) I
> have told this story several times already but here it goes
> again............
> Shell used my restored Austin Healey BJ8 with rebuilt engine to test wear
> using their lead free fuel.  They made a special measuring device and took
> enormous care to measure the wear due to my driving (reasonably hard but
not
> auto-cross ertc) the car for a
> year.   Result - no measurable wear !
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com

From 71mgbgt at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 09:29:53 2013
From: 71mgbgt at gmail.com (Henri Lefebvre)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:29:53 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <E1U0ZGo-0001Er-8P@theta.look.ca>
References: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
	<CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
	<E1U0ZGo-0001Er-8P@theta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPx2zFFkRfQ3237wmLnZtHC4G+4JRB=RTYFYhR2zSg-SQ5SUOA@mail.gmail.com>

I do not build engines, I leave that responsibility to my mechanic.

He rebuilt my '71 MGB GT engine 5 years ago, new cam, lifters, push
rods, pistons, rings, polished crank plus bearings etc, slightly more
performance than stock. He also rebuilt my TR6 engine 4 years ago,
165hp, triple webers, high compression, 150hp PI cam, lifters, push
rods, polished & ported head etc. Both engines were broken-in
appropriately on his engine dyno.
I use both cars, plus my TR8, as daily drivers during the spring to
fall period, and did drive the TR6 on the track in non racing events.
My mechanic warrants the rebuilt engines and does all the oil changes
using exclusively Castrol GTX plus Comp Cam additive.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=CC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=159

 We both sleep well at night and we have been good friends for 20 years.

YMMV

Henri

71 MGB GT
75 TR6
80 TR8

From billcollier at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 30 10:17:14 2013
From: billcollier at sbcglobal.net (Bill Collier)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:17:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] hi
Message-ID: <1359566234.26608.androidMobile@web184403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

check it out http://bit.ly/129Fy2e

Bill

From billcollier at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 30 16:11:13 2013
From: billcollier at sbcglobal.net (Bill Collier)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:11:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] hi
Message-ID: <1359587473.93964.androidMobile@web184405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

check this page out http://msn.nbcnews.com-im7.net/finance/

Bill

From mark at bradakis.com  Wed Jan 30 16:37:44 2013
From: mark at bradakis.com (Mark J Bradakis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:37:44 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Drat.
Message-ID: <5109AEC8.5080100@bradakis.com>

I really need to get some filters set up to keep that crap from hijacked 
emails
getting through.  My apologies for not doing it sooner.

mjb.

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 30 17:13:24 2013
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike E)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:13:24 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
References: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu>
	<CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net>
	<201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <SNT403-EAS115D23F22860D0BC48B6184B71D0@phx.gbl>

That's pretty much what I think, too.  And if a lack of ZDDP were going to
destroy our engines, it would no longer be academic - we'd all know somebody
with critical valvetrain wear or would have our own tappet problems.

-Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT
1951 M38 Jeep
1954 MG TF
1973 Midget
1977 MGB

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 29, 2013, at 21:22, "Barney Gaylord" <barneymg at mgaguru.com> wrote:

> I try not to get involved in religious wars, but I am coming to Paul's
support here with considerable experience of my own.  I have build a number of
MGA engines using a Crane Fast Street Cam (with a bit of extra lift), Heavy
Duty valve springs (more than stock spring force), short tappets and long
pushrods from the 18V engine, and sometimes alloy spring caps (but not
always).  A couple of these engine I have done for other people, and no
complaints from them.  A couple of these engine I have run in my own car.  I
nearly always drive it like I stole it.  I have done lots of competition work
in SCCA autocross events (and some local club events).   In short, it is an
uprated engine driven by a heavy foot, sometimes at 7,000 rpm during
competition.
>
> For build it gets lots of standard grease on the cam and tappets (although I
would go along with the cam lube recommended by the cam manufacturer).  For
first run and break in the engine runs 2500 rpm for 20 minutes with no load
(to run in the tappets).  After re-torque it can go racing, right out of the
box, although it may take up to 500 miles for the rings and cylinder walls to
loosen up.  I use 20W50 oil for the break in, change it at 500 miles, then run
20W50 in warm weather and 10W40 for a considerable amount of winter driving.
I use almost exclusively NAPA brand oil which I think is made by Valvoline,
nothing special, just regular street car engine oil.  I change oil and filter
at 4000 mile intervals.
>
> The engine currently in my car now has 88,000 miles, running like a champ,
and very good cam and tappets.  I have never used any special additive in the
oil (accent on no additional ZDDP), and I don't intend to do so.  I'm sure
most of the hype about ZDDP additives is over blown and unnecessary.  I'm also
sure most of the discussion and concern for lowered ZDDP content in modern
motor oil is a waste of concern (although I wouldn't chastise anyone for
adding ZDDP to the oil for the break in period of a new engine if it makes
them feel good).
>
> I do believe that success and long life of a new cam and flat tappets
depends greatly on quality of the parts.  I would never trust a reground cam
to be properly hardened, and I would exercise proper concern for procuring
good quality tappets with adequate hardness.  I firmly believe that most (if
not all) of reported premature cam failures are a result of sub-standard parts
or improper installation, and none of it has anything to do with lowered
amount of ZDDP in modern oil.
>
> All comments are welcome, as I stand resolutely with Teflon coating and
asbestos underwear.
>
> Barney Gaylord
> 1958 MGA with an attitude (and 400,000 miles)
> http://MGAguru.com
>
>
> At 04:01 PM 1/29/2013 -0800, Max Heim wrote:
>> I just want to point out two things:
>>
>> - You apparently don't drive very hard.
>>
>> - You have a low-compression motor.
>>
>> Higher-performance models used for rallies and track days may have a
>> completely different experience.
>>
>> As they say, YMMV...
>> ....
>
>
>> on 1/29/13 3:46 PM, Paul Osborne at paul at ece.rochester.edu wrote:
>> > Ok, here we go . I'm going to be the wrench in the works. 6 years ago I
fully
>> > rebuilt an 18V engine and placed it service in my 74 BGT. This is a
daily
>> > driver, no show car here , nice but a driver.
>> > The clock reads 72000miles. since that time I have done the regular
maintance
>> > , a set of brakes and tires . Now I drive about 500miles to my cottage
all
>> > most 3 times a month from may to oct.
>> > I use Quakerstate 20w50 oil.    only     I have noticed nothing but
running
>> > well.    My opinion,  may there is a need for this additive, maybe it
may
>> > help, but I owen and have owen 5 mgs . my GT
>> > I bought new, and I see no adverse problems with the oil I use in my
cars.
>> > ....
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Wed Jan 30 20:52:45 2013
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:52:45 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
In-Reply-To: <web-481580989@admin.nni.com>
References: <201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
	<web-481580989@admin.nni.com>
Message-ID: <201301310352.r0V3qhLH027200@nlpi162.prodigy.net>

Anyone who has replaced a MG camshaft in the past 20 years is using 
an aftermarket replica part.  I'm not sure anyone knows the objective 
quality of original equipment parts that are long gone.  I can only 
say that I believe the Crane Cams cam is a good quality part, made 
from an original forging.  There is a good chance the some other 
recent replacement cams are not such good quality, but I don't have 
any personal experiance with those, as I have been using the Crane 
Cams cams exclusively since turn of the century.

One interesting point is that the 18V type tappets were off the shelf 
parts forn Moss Motors, way back then, and they have not failed or 
eaten the cam.  Maybe they don't make them like they used to.  There 
has been more recent reports of tappets not being hard enough, 
resulting in failure of the tappets and damage to a cam shaft.

The point is that many of us use standard motor oil and drive engines 
long and hard with no cam or tappet problem.  Then there are a few 
who experience cam failure in as little as a few thousand miles after 
assembly with new parts.  This is not everyone mind you, but the few 
who have failures like this make a lot of news (or noise).  To me 
this must point to a parts problem (or installation issues), not an 
oil problem.  If it was an oil problem all of the engine would be 
failing (including mine).

I just checked my records, and the last tappets I bougnt were the 18V 
type from Moss (460-605) in August 2000. It was 8 pieces for $30.60 
total (possibly includug pro-rata shipping cost).  Less the $4 
each.  This part number has been listed as N/A for quite some 
time.  Today an 18V type tappet set from the same source (460-604) is 
$199.95, or $25 each.  As I recall, some time after I bought mine 
there were qualith problems, and Moss discontinued sales of their 
part, referring customers to some much more expensive parts supplied 
my a well know "speed shop" type source.  That may be what they are 
selling now for the much higher price.  Moss now also offers an 
"Uprated Tappet Set" (18V type) for $79.95 ($10 each).  Go 
figure.  Uprated from what I don't know, and none of these tappets 
have ever had any functional specs attached (like hardness figures).

I'm pretty hep on such things, but I have no idea what the quality 
level is on any of the parts sold in the past 10 years.  There have 
been some recent comments on various BBS about actual measured 
hardness of some tappets, some being better than others.  I don't 
know how to judge the quality of any tappet without hardness 
testing.  Considering the current state of affairs, I think any 
vendor selling flat tappets should include a certified test results 
sheet with every tappet shipped.  And if somone does a QA test and 
finds the parts don't measure up to the spec, the vendor should be 
severely chastised in public (or worse).

$.03,

Barney


At 01:47 PM 1/30/2013 -0500, Eugene Balinski wrote:
>Barney,
>
>    Is there a possibility that the Crane cam that you use along 
> with the tappets are of better quality or different materials than 
> the stock components in an 18V motor ?
>
>Maybe that is the difference in the ZDDP requuirements ?
>....

From paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com  Thu Jan 31 02:07:49 2013
From: paulhunt73 at virginmedia.com (PaulHunt73)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:07:49 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] ZDDP (Again)??!!??
References: <6AE3F102-B903-44D9-9794-CA0FEB86A5BA@ece.rochester.edu><CD2DA2CF.42FB8%mvheim@sonic.net><201301300216.r0U2G9Su016315@nlpi176.prodigy.net>
	<E1U0ZGo-0001Er-8P@theta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <8E87BF741F304AC181786CBDE975DFB8@paul>

Quite apart from lead in fuel or not being a completely different issue to 
ZDDP in oil, your one-off uncontrolled experience is completely at odds with 
the tests that the Motor Industry Research Association performed on behalf 
of the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs when lead was about to 
be removed from petrol in the UK.  These tests used multiple, new, BL (known 
to be more susceptible to valve seat recession than other manufacturers) 
engines run for many hours at high rpm and loading, and showed conclusively 
that significant recession did occur.  They tested a number of additives on 
behalf of their manufacturers which gave a wide range of results, only four 
of which gave a significant reduction in recession, although none were as 
good as lead.  They publicised these four products, and subsequently a 
fifth, but not the ones that failed.  For some years several petrol 
manufacturers produced a grade called Lead Replacement that contained one of 
these additives, including Shell.

Subsequently a quote attributed to BMW said that an engine that has run 30k 
on leaded, and not had replacement valves or seats recut, will have enough 
lead leached into the valves and seats to protect them 'for the rest of 
their normal service life'.  Even though my roadster engine falls into that 
category, and because I run it quite often for long durations at motorway 
speeds, I choose to use one of the additives.  One bottle a year at about #6 
is cheap insurance.

And maybe replacement cams and tappets *are* softer now than the originals, 
but doesn't that *make* the case for using an oil with higher levels of ZDDP 
if ZDDP really does reduce wear as is incontrovertibly the case?  Again, one 
chooses to or not, but it is better to be informed than uninformed.

PaulH.


----- Original Message ----- 
> Shell used my restored Austin Healey BJ8 with rebuilt engine to test wear 
> using their lead free fuel.  They made a special measuring device and took 
> enormous care to measure the wear due to my driving (reasonably hard but 
> not auto-cross ertc) the car for a year.   Result - no measurable wear !