From 71mgbgt at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 14:50:54 2011
From: 71mgbgt at gmail.com (Henri Lefebvre)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:50:54 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
Message-ID: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com>

I am considering installing an electric cooling fan, to replace the
metal mechanical fan on my '71 MGB GT.
I will probably install it as a pusher for ease of installation.
I have one on my TR6 and am very pleased with the performance.

I would appreciate comments and suggestions, pros and cons.
Originality is not a concern.

A few questions:

   1 - Make:     any makes recommended, or not recommended?  Hayden,
ProComp etc.
   2 - Blades:     curved or straight blades? it seems that curved
blades might move more air.
   3 - Temperature probe:   instead of the probe through the rad
style, what are the installation alternatives? I do not plan to remove
the rad to have a bung welded in at this time.


All suugestions welcomed.

Thank you,

Henri

From shop at justbrits.com  Sat Mar  5 11:18:48 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:18:48 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] TV Viewing = GREAT !!!
Message-ID: <4D727E88.5030009@justbrits.com>

Folk, just watched a very kewl SpeedTV program,

"Ticket-to-Ride" featuring a M-B 300SL and a 300SLS !!!!!
The latter being the one of tunnel fame <G> !!!

Still coming to your Speed Channel near you !!

http://www.speedtv.com/programs/ticket-to-ride/

Enjoy !!

Ed

From wilkmanracing at aol.com  Sat Mar  5 22:05:38 2011
From: wilkmanracing at aol.com (wilkmanracing at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 00:05:38 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Sleeved Thermostats
Message-ID: <8CDA9D344EC7974-2828-208AD@webmail-d126.sysops.aol.com>

 Has anyone had experience with the sleeved thermostat sold by Moss?  Are they
worth the nearly $100 they cost?

Bill Wilkman
1960 MGA, in family since new

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Mar  6 03:32:04 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:32:04 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>

Why?  At best you will save a couple of mouse-power, at worst it is 
something else to fail which is something virtually impossible with the 
mechanical fan.  The mechanical fan *should* be perfectly adequate in all 
normal conditions, these cars run in desert states without cooling problems 
when everything else is as it should be.  When the factory fitted electric 
fans to the MGB people just got paranoid seeing the temp gauge rise above N 
in traffic, which it should do.  Some of those have fitted after-market 
systems in place of the original electric with adjustable thermostatic 
switches which they turn right down to keep the needle at N, which means the 
fan and the thermostat are fighting each other.

My 2 penn'orth, with one of each.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
>I am considering installing an electric cooling fan, to replace the
> metal mechanical fan on my '71 MGB GT.

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sun Mar  6 10:50:09 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 11:50:09 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Sleeved Thermostats
In-Reply-To: <8CDA9D344EC7974-2828-208AD@webmail-d126.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CDA9D344EC7974-2828-208AD@webmail-d126.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <95211.29377.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Last I checked Moss only had one in 160dF temperature rating.  It may 
be okay for summer driving (when it works about the same as no 
thermostat at all), but is generaly useless for cold weather when the 
engine will not warn up adequately, and you will get very little heat 
from the heater.  Keep in mind that the thermostat only controls the 
minimum operating temperature.  Once coolant temperature rises 5 to 
10 degrees above the thermostat rating it has no more affect on 
engine operating temperature.  A low temperature thermostat is not a 
cure for high engine running temperature.

I did run one of the Moss moving sleeve 160dF thermostats in my car 
for one summer.  It had no affect on warm weather operating 
temperature which normally runs in the 190-200dF range (slightly 
higher so very hot days) . When winter hit the engine would not warm 
up enough to run right without a little choke, so I tossed it 
out.  (I still have it if you would like to try it).  I installed a 
higher temperature thermostat for good winter running and good heater 
output.  195dF thermostat makes for good winter driving but causes 
carburetor probelms in hot weather.  I then installed a 180dF 
thermostat (Chevy part) with a blanking sleeve.  This works as well 
as anything all year round (except a little less heat in 
winter).  The blanking sleeve has minimal affect on running 
temperature, perhaps a few degrees lower at best, certainly not a 
cure for hot running engine.  I suppose the blanking sleeve is best 
reserved for a race car running no thermostat.


At 12:05 AM 3/6/2011 -0500, Bill Wilkman wrote:
>  Has anyone had experience with the sleeved thermostat sold by 
> Moss?  Are they
>worth the nearly $100 they cost?

From barrie at look.ca  Sun Mar  6 11:57:34 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 13:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
In-Reply-To: <EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com>
	<EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
Message-ID: <E1PwJD1-0006ox-Sj@gamma.look.ca>

There is one small advantage, and it is small.  With an electric fan 
and thermostat the fan will continue to run after the engine is shut 
down thus negating the heat build up which happens at that time.  For 
aluminium blocks and/or heads this could be good !


At 05:32 AM 3/6/2011, Paul Hunt wrote:
>Why?  At best you will save a couple of mouse-power, at worst it is 
>something else to fail which is something virtually impossible with 
>the mechanical fan.  The mechanical fan *should* be perfectly 
>adequate in all normal conditions, these cars run in desert states 
>without cooling problems when everything else is as it should 
>be.  When the factory fitted electric fans to the MGB people just 
>got paranoid seeing the temp gauge rise above N in traffic, which it 
>should do.  Some of those have fitted after-market systems in place 
>of the original electric with adjustable thermostatic switches which 
>they turn right down to keep the needle at N, which means the fan 
>and the thermostat are fighting each other.
>
>My 2 penn'orth, with one of each.
>
>PaulH.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>>I am considering installing an electric cooling fan, to replace the
>>metal mechanical fan on my '71 MGB GT.
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
(705) 721-9060 

From shop at justbrits.com  Sun Mar  6 16:44:04 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 17:44:04 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
In-Reply-To: <EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com>
	<EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
Message-ID: <4D741C44.5020101@justbrits.com>

<< ...MGB people just got paranoid seeing the temp gauge rise
above N in traffic, ... >>

Which Paul, IMNSHO they DESERVED for taking OUT a perfectly
good and functional gauge substituting "the next step to an idiot
light".

Again IMNSHO, car owners stuck with the POS "gauge" should
"calibrate" the face of the gauge marking it with maybe 170,
189 and 210 degree markings so that they KNOW what THEIR
"N" and "H" actually relate to.

But that's me and I would even have a car so equipped <G> !!!

Ed

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar  7 01:53:00 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 08:53:00 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com>
	<EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
	<E1PwJD1-0006ox-Sj@gamma.look.ca>
Message-ID: <0085227B0EFE4847BF6B1F31F31FB23D@paul>

Factory electric fans always shut off with the ignition, it depends on the 
fitter as to what after-market fans do, could be either.  Personally I think 
to have them running after the engine is switched off is not a good thing, 
it could run the battery down if the switch stuck on, or at worst could burn 
out the car as happened several times a few years ago with some modern 
French car or other (and half the owners house as the car was in the garage 
at the time).

Electric thermostat?  Or thermostatic switch?

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> There is one small advantage, and it is small.  With an electric fan and 
> thermostat the fan will continue to run after the engine is shut down ... 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar  7 02:15:27 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:15:27 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Sleeved Thermostats
References: <8CDA9D344EC7974-2828-208AD@webmail-d126.sysops.aol.com>
	<95211.29377.qm@smtp108.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87F90E66488C4CC4BFCA8BD223DC5095@paul>

Sticking my head in the lions den here but the thermostat doesn't actually
control maximum or minimum temperature.  It maintains a *given* temperature,
plus a bit of hysteresis, between certain upper and lower limits that are
dependant on external factors.  If driven in very low temperatures the coolant
may not get hot enough to even start opening the thermostat due to surface
cooling and heater use.  Conversely if the engine is generating more heat than
the radiator can dissipate either due to one or more of loading, high ambient
temperature or defects in the cooling system then the coolant temperature will
keep rising after the stat is fully open.

PaulH.

----- Original Message -----
> ...  Keep in mind that the thermostat only controls the
> minimum operating temperature.

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar  7 01:58:19 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 08:58:19 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com><EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
	<4D741C44.5020101@justbrits.com>
Message-ID: <12242FFEB16C44A3B155E00BEC951BC7@paul>

Different issue, I think Ed.  The question was about replacing a mechanical 
fan with an electric, not changing the gauge type.  The pointer on the CNH 
type does exactly the same as on the C/F type, so not really comparable to 
an on/off idiot light, and both can make owners paranoid when they suddenly 
see them reading higher than they've been used to.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shop at " Just Brits "" <shop at justbrits.com>
To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB


> << ...MGB people just got paranoid seeing the temp gauge rise
> above N in traffic, ... >>
>
> Which Paul, IMNSHO they DESERVED for taking OUT a perfectly
> good and functional gauge substituting "the next step to an idiot
> light".
>
> Again IMNSHO, car owners stuck with the POS "gauge" should
> "calibrate" the face of the gauge marking it with maybe 170,
> 189 and 210 degree markings so that they KNOW what THEIR
> "N" and "H" actually relate to.
>
> But that's me and I would even have a car so equipped <G> !!!
>
> Ed
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk 

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 11:39:34 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 12:39:34 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
In-Reply-To: <0085227B0EFE4847BF6B1F31F31FB23D@paul>
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com>
	<EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
	<E1PwJD1-0006ox-Sj@gamma.look.ca>
	<0085227B0EFE4847BF6B1F31F31FB23D@paul>
Message-ID: <4D752666.6040204@gmail.com>

On 3/7/2011 2:53 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
> Factory electric fans always shut off with the ignition, it depends
> on the fitter as to what after-market fans do, could be either.
> Personally I think to have them running after the engine is switched
> off is not a good thing, it could run the battery down if the switch
> stuck on, or at worst could burn out the car as happened several
> times a few years ago with some modern French car or other (and half
> the owners house as the car was in the garage at the time).
While we're on this subject, I want to interject a comment: once while driving
my old Chevy Carryall on the QE near Toronto, there was a horrendous bang and
the entire truck started shaking violently. I immediatelt shut it off and
pulled onto the verge. There was a clean cut in the heavy metal bonnet of the
truck, about three inches long. One of the blades of the four-bladed fan had
broken off and cut right through the bonnet. We never found the blade. I
removed the rest of that blade and it ran just fine on two blades for the rest
of the summer. The second half of the story is that a man my dad knew was
killed when he was revving an engine is his shop and the same thing happened
to the fan blade, but in this case, it went clear through his head, killing
him instantly. I'm always VERY leary of the possibility that things might
break off a spinning engine and harm me or others. I set up my engines,
sometimes with mirrors, so that I can do the timing without being in line to
be hurt. I recommend this practice.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Mon Mar  7 12:28:37 2011
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 20:28:37 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com><EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul><E1PwJD1-0006ox-Sj@gamma.look.ca>
	<0085227B0EFE4847BF6B1F31F31FB23D@paul>
Message-ID: <D0D5BEF3FC804A15AA2663AFB3C83303@uw471de61b465c>

Paul,

Be aware, that Volkswagen, Audi etc. factory fit electrical fans may start 
while the enigne is shut off.
Reason is that the latent heat of the engine may trigger the thermostat 
switch and the fan is allowed to start spinning.

Cheers,

Hans

having driven Volkswagen cars from 1978 on (not all time, but many of these)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Hunt" <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB


> Factory electric fans always shut off with the ignition, it depends on the 
> fitter as to what after-market fans do, could be either.  Personally I 
> think to have them running after the engine is switched off is not a good 
> thing, it could run the battery down if the switch stuck on, or at worst 
> could burn out the car as happened several times a few years ago with some 
> modern French car or other (and half the owners house as the car was in 
> the garage at the time).
>
> Electric thermostat?  Or thermostatic switch?
>
> PaulH.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> There is one small advantage, and it is small.  With an electric fan and 
>> thermostat the fan will continue to run after the engine is shut down ...

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar  7 12:38:13 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:38:13 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
In-Reply-To: <4D752666.6040204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C99A7425.2F99F%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

I am astonished you continued running the truck with a fan that had
obviously suffered metal fatigue, and was clearly out of balance. That seems
particularly foolhardy, considering the damage you had already witnessed.


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 3/7/11 10:39 AM, The Roxter at rocknatural at gmail.com wrote:

> On 3/7/2011 2:53 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
>> Factory electric fans always shut off with the ignition, it depends
>> on the fitter as to what after-market fans do, could be either.
>> Personally I think to have them running after the engine is switched
>> off is not a good thing, it could run the battery down if the switch
>> stuck on, or at worst could burn out the car as happened several
>> times a few years ago with some modern French car or other (and half
>> the owners house as the car was in the garage at the time).
> While we're on this subject, I want to interject a comment: once while driving
> my old Chevy Carryall on the QE near Toronto, there was a horrendous bang and
> the entire truck started shaking violently. I immediatelt shut it off and
> pulled onto the verge. There was a clean cut in the heavy metal bonnet of the
> truck, about three inches long. One of the blades of the four-bladed fan had
> broken off and cut right through the bonnet. We never found the blade. I
> removed the rest of that blade and it ran just fine on two blades for the rest
> of the summer. The second half of the story is that a man my dad knew was
> killed when he was revving an engine is his shop and the same thing happened
> to the fan blade, but in this case, it went clear through his head, killing
> him instantly. I'm always VERY leary of the possibility that things might
> break off a spinning engine and harm me or others. I set up my engines,
> sometimes with mirrors, so that I can do the timing without being in line to
> be hurt. I recommend this practice.
> 
> -Rocky Frisco
> --

From 71mgbgt at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 14:02:58 2011
From: 71mgbgt at gmail.com (Henri Lefebvre)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:02:58 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
In-Reply-To: <4D752666.6040204@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com>
	<EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
	<E1PwJD1-0006ox-Sj@gamma.look.ca>
	<0085227B0EFE4847BF6B1F31F31FB23D@paul> <4D752666.6040204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinQ6==djMfuK8koibEMbHAt9wsC=9t3Og2k2Y2V@mail.gmail.com>

This is one of the reasons that I am considering replacing the metal
fan on my MGB.
A fellow member in our local club had the same type of damage. The
metal fan on his BGT broke and one blade came through the hood. His
mechanic replaced the unit with the plastic fan version.
My preference is to replace my metal fan with an electric fan for the
added coolin capacity at low speeds/revs and the performance value,
however small it might be.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:39 AM, The Roxter <rocknatural at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/7/2011 2:53 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
>>
>> Factory electric fans always shut off with the ignition, it depends
>> on the fitter as to what after-market fans do, could be either.
>> Personally I think to have them running after the engine is switched
>> off is not a good thing, it could run the battery down if the switch
>> stuck on, or at worst could burn out the car as happened several
>> times a few years ago with some modern French car or other (and half
>> the owners house as the car was in the garage at the time).
>
> While we're on this subject, I want to interject a comment: once while
> driving
> my old Chevy Carryall on the QE near Toronto, there was a horrendous bang
> and
> the entire truck started shaking violently. I immediatelt shut it off and
> pulled onto the verge. There was a clean cut in the heavy metal bonnet of
> the
> truck, about three inches long. One of the blades of the four-bladed fan
had
> broken off and cut right through the bonnet. We never found the blade. I
> removed the rest of that blade and it ran just fine on two blades for the
> rest
> of the summer. The second half of the story is that a man my dad knew was
> killed when he was revving an engine is his shop and the same thing
happened
> to the fan blade, but in this case, it went clear through his head, killing
> him instantly. I'm always VERY leary of the possibility that things might
> break off a spinning engine and harm me or others. I set up my engines,
> sometimes with mirrors, so that I can do the timing without being in line
to
> be hurt. I recommend this practice.
>
> -Rocky Frisco
> --
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/71mgbgt at gmail.com

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Mon Mar  7 16:07:13 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:07:13 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
In-Reply-To: <C99A7425.2F99F%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
References: <C99A7425.2F99F%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <4D756521.5050503@gmail.com>

On 3/7/2011 1:38 PM, Max Heim wrote:
> I am astonished you continued running the truck with a fan that had
> obviously suffered metal fatigue, and was clearly out of balance. That seems
> particularly foolhardy, considering the damage you had already witnessed.
The chevy fan was two separate blades, mounted crosswise. I merely removed the damaged one, inspected the remaining blade, which showed no damage, and remounted it.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar  7 18:17:16 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:17:16 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinQ6==djMfuK8koibEMbHAt9wsC=9t3Og2k2Y2V@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimbsBhGc0WEMBc_zk3SS0=P0gMmVH1+qQt0vcp0@mail.gmail.com>
	<EE3C99F1967444F1B4837293EC8BDFBF@paul>
	<E1PwJD1-0006ox-Sj@gamma.look.ca>
	<0085227B0EFE4847BF6B1F31F31FB23D@paul> <4D752666.6040204@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinQ6==djMfuK8koibEMbHAt9wsC=9t3Og2k2Y2V@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D75839C.8030203@justbrits.com>

<< This is one of the reasons that I am considering replacing
the metal fan on my MGB. >>

Easier yet, just put a new org. on if yer 'that' worried, Henri.

Easier yet and I've been doing for 40+ years of Big Healey &
MGB with same fan - Media blast, MagnaFlux, prime & new
paint.  I have been doing that for a VERY long tome -
byproduct is [ knock-on-wood <G> ] I've never had a fractured
fan.

Ed

PS:  And my fans ALWAYS look great <G> !!

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar  7 18:31:48 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:31:48 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Electric cooling fan for 71 MGB
In-Reply-To: <4D756521.5050503@gmail.com>
References: <C99A7425.2F99F%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<4D756521.5050503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D758704.40302@justbrits.com>

<< The chevy fan was two separate blades, mounted crosswise.
I merely removed the damaged one, inspected the remaining
blade, which showed no damage, and remounted it. >>

A LOT of LBCs have the same set-up.  I know of two [2] Big
Healeys that had single blade failure and both finished their
trips same way as you did Rocky !!!

Ed

From mike at duvallvideo.com  Mon Mar  7 22:55:01 2011
From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 23:55:01 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
Message-ID: <4C60E002-3C53-4424-B365-C5E9BE7D4626@duvallvideo.com>

This winter, I discovered my MGB left front shock had a bolt missing and
another was loose both on the wheel side.   I tightened the loose one down but
the missing bolt must have the nut stripped and won't hold a bolt.     Now the
car vibrates a lot at 50 or 60 mph and has made a couple of loud clunking
noises in that area.  I thought the clunk might be the shock loosened up again
but it hasn't.

Would this likely be a bad shock or a something frozen up?   What should I
look for before I start taking the front end apart?

From mgbob at juno.com  Tue Mar  8 07:37:12 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 14:37:12 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
Message-ID: <20110308.093712.25902.3@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

  Well, if I were facing that problem, first thing I would do would be to
brush the dirt off the crossmember bolts,  then  I would drop the crossmember
and have a good look at the entire front suspension. Any sort of strange noise
in a robust suspension design is rather worrying.  It could be that the damper
is dry, in which case the wheel is pumping up and down, possibly loosening the
bolts and causing the threads to strip when the bolt is almost out of the
hole, or  It could be that the damper is frozen internally, in which case
there is the irresistible force pushing on the immovable object, bending or
breaking or stripping something.  R&R of the springs is often done with the
Xmember in the car, but with the right spring compressor tool it's an easy job
with the Xmember on the garage floor. Once apart, testing of the dampers can
be done, or just get rebuilts from Peter Caldwell and send him your cores.  If
the swivel pins are loose, Moss has complete kits ready to install. This is
opportunity to replace the rubber bits with Pro-thane and to clean up the
entire unit.   We are coming up on second weekend in March. In two or three
days, you can have it out, apart, new bits installed, reinstalled and be as
good as new, certainly having it all done by the end of the month.   One of
our club members had an exciting adventure following a half-done chase of
strange clunking noises. I have been much more cautious about them since.Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Duvall Video Productions <mike at duvallvideo.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 23:55:01 -0600

This winter, I discovered my MGB left front shock had a bolt missing and
another was loose both on the wheel side.   I tightened the loose one down
but
the missing bolt must have the nut stripped and won't hold a bolt.     Now
the
car vibrates a lot at 50 or 60 mph and has made a couple of loud clunking
noises in that area.  I thought the clunk might be the shock loosened up
again
but it hasn't.

Would this likely be a bad shock or a something frozen up?   What should I
look for before I start taking the front end apart?
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Tue Mar  8 10:29:12 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:29:12 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
In-Reply-To: <4C60E002-3C53-4424-B365-C5E9BE7D4626@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <C99BA768.2F9F2%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

Remember, the lever shock on the front is not merely a shock, it is the
upper suspension link. It takes the weight of the car, and aligns the wheel
on that side. So if it's noticeably loose, that is Not Good.


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires




on 3/7/11 9:55 PM, Duvall Video Productions at mike at duvallvideo.com wrote:

> This winter, I discovered my MGB left front shock had a bolt missing and
> another was loose both on the wheel side.   I tightened the loose one down but
> the missing bolt must have the nut stripped and won't hold a bolt.     Now the
> car vibrates a lot at 50 or 60 mph and has made a couple of loud clunking
> noises in that area.  I thought the clunk might be the shock loosened up again
> but it hasn't.
> 
> Would this likely be a bad shock or a something frozen up?   What should I
> look for before I start taking the front end apart?
> _______________________________________________

From g.schnittke at comcast.net  Tue Mar  8 23:02:48 2011
From: g.schnittke at comcast.net (Glenn Schnittke)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 00:02:48 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
Message-ID: <4D771808.4000608@comcast.net>

The clunking noises may or may not be related. But take care of the 
shock bolts first. That's bad.

As was said, the front shock is part of the overall geometry of the 
front end design. As designed it is a very solid system with a few 
recognized weaknesses. If you read the owners manual it mentions 
tightening the shock holding bolts every quarter or half year. I have 
done this and found that even with good lock washers they will loosen 
about a half to three quarters of a turn in that time. Tightening them 
up will reduce play in the system noticeably. They wouldn't have 
mentioned it in the manual if they didn't have a reason. They really 
want to be at torque value and if you only have one bolt, it's trying to 
do the job of two.

You said "must have the nut stripped and won't hold a bolt." It's not a 
nut. It's tapped into the plate that the shock sits on. If you have the 
capability to deal with a Helicoil type restoration of the threads that 
have been stripped out you should do so. If not, a local machine shop, 
garage or fellow club member (you do belong to a club don't you? If you 
don't, there's one in your area.) will probably be able to help you out. 
Restore the threads and tighten all four shock bolts down to specified 
torque. I think it's around 50 pounds but I could be off by 10 in either 
direction - my books are asleep with my wife in the other room and I'm 
not going to wake her up.

If the clunk is still there, then you do have other problems, but you've 
just taken care of one of the worst of them.

Check your shock. Is one of the shock arms damp? Then the oil has been 
seeping out and you're slowly going dry. Check the level. Remove the 
bolt at the top of the unit *AFTER* cleaning it off well. It's the fill 
plug. If oil drips out at the bottom of the hole you should be okay. If 
not, refill with hydraulic oil of any kind. Racers and picky people 
specify certain types and weights. Just get some oil in there and be 
sure it's hydraulic.

Your car should handle much better after this. If not, you can invest in 
a pair (don't just buy one) of rebuilt shocks (not terribly expensive 
after core charge) or replace with gas shocks (a little more expensive, 
but *I* don't think they handle as well as the originals [Nomex alert. 
If you want to comment on that, start anther thread]).

If you still have a clunk, make sure your crossmember bolts are tight 
against the frame (and the rubber pads aren't eaten by years and oil) 
and your kingpins are in shape. A cleverly placed long-handled prybar 
will help diagnose this. Again, refer to a local garage if need be.

You don't need to dismantle your entire front end to get to the problem. 
You can do it one piece at a time and in your backyard or garage. Get 
both the Bentley book and the Haynes manual if you don't have them. The 
car will teach you what it needs if you have those books and an 
analytical mind and want to learn. Fun, isn't it?

Glenn




> From: Duvall Video Productions <mike at duvallvideo.com>
> Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Message-ID: <4C60E002-3C53-4424-B365-C5E9BE7D4626 at duvallvideo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> This winter, I discovered my MGB left front shock had a bolt missing and
> another was loose both on the wheel side.   I tightened the loose one down but
> the missing bolt must have the nut stripped and won't hold a bolt.     Now the
> car vibrates a lot at 50 or 60 mph and has made a couple of loud clunking
> noises in that area.  I thought the clunk might be the shock loosened up again
> but it hasn't.
>
> Would this likely be a bad shock or a something frozen up?   What should I
> look for before I start taking the front end apart?

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  9 09:02:18 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 08:02:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] Question about Clausager Book
Message-ID: <707909.33418.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I was surprised to see a copy of Clausager's "Das Original:
MGA (Alle
Roadster- und Coupemodelle einschlieClich Twin
Cam)" in the Paddock Shop at
the NC<rburgring today.  Surprised
because there were probably less than 40
books there, and that
was the only one that covered a car that could remotely
be
considered affordable.  Also surprised that it was only b,15,00.
Is this
the same book as the English language "Original MGA" or
is it a different one?
It was sealed so I couldn't look inside.

David Breneman
david_breneman at yahoo.com

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Wed Mar  9 09:48:55 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 10:48:55 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] Question about Clausager Book
In-Reply-To: <707909.33418.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <707909.33418.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <436706.72651.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Same book in German language rather than English.  Sounds like a good 
deal to me.  I suppose you didn't buy it?


At 08:02 AM 3/9/2011 -0800, David Breneman wrote:
>I was surprised to see a copy of Clausager's "Das Original: MGA 
>(Alle Roadster- und Coupemodelle einschlieClich Twin Cam)" in the 
>Paddock Shop at the NC <rburgring today. ....
>Is this the same book as the English language "Original MGA" or is 
>it a different one?
>....

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  9 10:01:37 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 09:01:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mgs] Question about Clausager Book
In-Reply-To: <436706.72651.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <471387.38648.qm@web112104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Wed, 3/9/11, Barney Gaylord <barneymg at mgaguru.com> wrote:

> Same book
in German language rather
> than English.  Sounds like a good deal to me.  I
>
suppose you didn't buy it?

I already have it in English, and it's available
on
amazon.de for the same price (I just discovered).
If it was something else,
however, I was going to
go back! :-)

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Wed Mar  9 13:56:43 2011
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 21:56:43 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Question about Clausager Book
References: <707909.33418.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <85DCA849C1074016B5406982ED9E34FC@uw471de61b465c>

German version....

Cheers,
71 BGT
Hans - @ Netherlands = near Germany

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Breneman" <david_breneman at yahoo.com>
To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:02 PM
Subject: [Mgs] Question about Clausager Book


>I was surprised to see a copy of Clausager's "Das Original:
> MGA (Alle
> Roadster- und Coupemodelle einschlieClich Twin
> Cam)" in the Paddock Shop at
> the NC<rburgring today.  Surprised
> because there were probably less than 40
> books there, and that
> was the only one that covered a car that could remotely
> be
> considered affordable.  Also surprised that it was only b,15,00.
> Is this
> the same book as the English language "Original MGA" or
> is it a different one?
> It was sealed so I couldn't look inside.
>
> David Breneman
> david_breneman at yahoo.com

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Mar 11 02:45:49 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:45:49 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
References: <4C60E002-3C53-4424-B365-C5E9BE7D4626@duvallvideo.com>
Message-ID: <B545D6BA47AF413DAD9DD983FF462CA4@paul>

It only started vibrating and clunking *after* you tightened the bolts? 
What else did you do?  Either that or it is coincidental.

What sort of vibration?  If you mean the steering wheel wobbles at those 
speeds (although it is typically about 10mph higher) then that sounds like 
wheel and tyre balance.  Other than that you will have to go round levering 
at joints with the weight off the wheels looking for play in wheel bearings, 
king-pin, top and bottom trunnions, A-arm bolts and bushes inner and outer, 
track-rod ends, rack and pinion, column UJ, etc. etc.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> This winter, I discovered my MGB left front shock had a bolt missing and
> another was loose both on the wheel side.   I tightened the loose one down 
> but
> the missing bolt must have the nut stripped and won't hold a bolt.     Now 
> the
> car vibrates a lot at 50 or 60 mph and has made a couple of loud clunking
> noises in that area. 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Mar 11 09:42:34 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:42:34 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
References: <4C60E002-3C53-4424-B365-C5E9BE7D4626@duvallvideo.com>
	<B545D6BA47AF413DAD9DD983FF462CA4@paul>
	<362645FF-51D3-44A3-BC6B-E45FDB2FABF6@me.com>
Message-ID: <D824425D04A64D67BF3F30D11BBE22A4@paul>

Difficult to imagine what could cause a speed-related vibration that is 
faster that wheel-wobble vibration.  Implies something is going round faster 
than the wheels, which could be the prop-shaft.  A regular vibration like 
that should be easy to separate from something like a surface-induced 
vibration, and a seized damper should be even easier to determine, simply 
press down on each corner of the car and see if it moves or not.

----- Original Message ----- 
>... however the vibration is speed related not RPM.   It changes on road 
>conditions and is severe.
>
> ...  The vibration is faster than you would get from front end wobbling.

From mgb72 at airmail.net  Fri Mar 11 15:32:12 2011
From: mgb72 at airmail.net (Chad)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:32:12 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] front end diagnosis
In-Reply-To: <D824425D04A64D67BF3F30D11BBE22A4@paul>
References: <4C60E002-3C53-4424-B365-C5E9BE7D4626@duvallvideo.com>
	<B545D6BA47AF413DAD9DD983FF462CA4@paul>
	<362645FF-51D3-44A3-BC6B-E45FDB2FABF6@me.com>
	<D824425D04A64D67BF3F30D11BBE22A4@paul>
Message-ID: <001e01cbe03c$2e4ed910$8aec8b30$@net>

Bad U-Joints?  Just a guess.

Chad

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Paul Hunt
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 10:43 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net; Mike Duvall
Subject: Re: [Mgs] front end diagnosis

Difficult to imagine what could cause a speed-related vibration that is 
faster that wheel-wobble vibration.  Implies something is going round faster

than the wheels, which could be the prop-shaft.  A regular vibration like 
that should be easy to separate from something like a surface-induced 
vibration, and a seized damper should be even easier to determine, simply 
press down on each corner of the car and see if it moves or not.

----- Original Message ----- 
>... however the vibration is speed related not RPM.   It changes on road 
>conditions and is severe.
>
> ...  The vibration is faster than you would get from front end wobbling.
_______________________________________________

From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com  Fri Mar 11 17:43:57 2011
From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 16:43:57 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] Question about Clausager Book
In-Reply-To: <85DCA849C1074016B5406982ED9E34FC@uw471de61b465c>
References: <707909.33418.qm@web112101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<85DCA849C1074016B5406982ED9E34FC@uw471de61b465c>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimONtW_pX63NRr3qpA8CPu_2Ap2vt1a7gT7kXj_@mail.gmail.com>

While we are talking books, some years ago, my mother-in-law gave me a
copy of this book:

http://www.abebooks.com/9780966767605/Golden-Age-Riley-Motor-1926-1938-096676
7608/plp

I think she picked it up at a flea market. It's in perfect condition!

Simon


On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Hans Duinhoven <h.duinhoven at planet.nl>
wrote:
> German version....
>
> Cheers,
> 71 BGT
> Hans - @ Netherlands = near Germany
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Breneman"
> <david_breneman at yahoo.com>
> To: <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:02 PM
> Subject: [Mgs] Question about Clausager Book
>
>
>> I was surprised to see a copy of Clausager's "Das Original:
>> MGA (Alle
>> Roadster- und Coupemodelle einschlieC lich Twin
>> Cam)" in the Paddock Shop at
>> the NC<rburgring today.  Surprised
>> because there were probably less than 40
>> books there, and that
>> was the only one that covered a car that could remotely
>> be
>> considered affordable.  Also surprised that it was only b ,15,00.
>> Is this
>> the same book as the English language "Original MGA" or
>> is it a different one?
>> It was sealed so I couldn't look inside.
>>
>> David Breneman
>> david_breneman at yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com

From awhitema at panix.com  Sat Mar 12 18:12:01 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 17:12:01 -0800
Subject: [Mgs] fuel hose replacement
Message-ID: <4B035E12-0A00-4DC2-B0F1-96287D3FAD37@panix.com>

Today was (as far as I care) the first day of spring.  I put the battery in
yesterday, pulled the spark plugs, cranked to pressurize, then buttoned my '75
B backup and and let her run for a bit.

Today, I called the insurance company and ventured out a bit.

Some of the old fuel hoses in the engine bay were weeping, so I thought it
time to do some replacement.  Simultaneously, the aftermarket fuel pump has a
shoddy wire, so I did some repair work there too.  While I was under there, I
noted that the fuel hoses linking that pump to the hard lines are looking a
bit worn.  They aren't leaking, but they are showing signs that I should think
about replacing them.

Short of "let somebody else do it," what's the best advice for draining those
lines/hoses for replacement?  Do I need to worry about siphon effects?

--

From riverside at southslope.net  Sat Mar 12 19:11:29 2011
From: riverside at southslope.net (riverside at southslope.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 20:11:29 -0600
Subject: [Mgs] fuel hose replacement
In-Reply-To: <4B035E12-0A00-4DC2-B0F1-96287D3FAD37@panix.com>
References: <4B035E12-0A00-4DC2-B0F1-96287D3FAD37@panix.com>
Message-ID: <982C3E80921A413F89B695BE1696DA88@rileyPC>

Yes,you will get some siphon on a B, but if you have an air compressor it's 
easy.
Remove the fuel filler cap then remove the hose from the tank at the fuel 
pump. Blow a short burst of air into the hose end to push the fuel back into 
the tank and empty the feed line. Don't  blow too much air into the hose or 
you will pressurize the tank and it will force the fuel out of the tank back 
into the hose.
Ron Sanborn



-----Original Message----- 
From: Aaron Whiteman
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 7:12 PM
To: MG Mailing List
Subject: [Mgs] fuel hose replacement

Today was (as far as I care) the first day of spring.  I put the battery in
yesterday, pulled the spark plugs, cranked to pressurize, then buttoned my 
'75
B backup and and let her run for a bit.

Today, I called the insurance company and ventured out a bit.

Some of the old fuel hoses in the engine bay were weeping, so I thought it
time to do some replacement.  Simultaneously, the aftermarket fuel pump has 
a
shoddy wire, so I did some repair work there too.  While I was under there, 
I
noted that the fuel hoses linking that pump to the hard lines are looking a
bit worn.  They aren't leaking, but they are showing signs that I should 
think
about replacing them.

Short of "let somebody else do it," what's the best advice for draining 
those
lines/hoses for replacement?  Do I need to worry about siphon effects?

--
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/riverside at southslope.net 

From mjanacek at snet.net  Sun Mar 13 03:21:56 2011
From: mjanacek at snet.net (Mike Janacek)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 06:21:56 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] fuel hose replacement
In-Reply-To: <4B035E12-0A00-4DC2-B0F1-96287D3FAD37@panix.com>
References: <4B035E12-0A00-4DC2-B0F1-96287D3FAD37@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4D7C9AC4.9020802@snet.net>

If you have about a 1/4 tank (or less) of fuel you can use a jack to 
raise the right side only to force the fuel in the tank away from the 
pump hose, then change the hose. Remember to place a jack stand for safety.
Mike
'79B

On 3/12/2011 8:12 PM, Aaron Whiteman wrote:
> Today was (as far as I care) the first day of spring.  I put the battery in
> yesterday, pulled the spark plugs, cranked to pressurize, then buttoned my '75
> B backup and and let her run for a bit.
>
> Today, I called the insurance company and ventured out a bit.
>
> Some of the old fuel hoses in the engine bay were weeping, so I thought it
> time to do some replacement.  Simultaneously, the aftermarket fuel pump has a
> shoddy wire, so I did some repair work there too.  While I was under there, I
> noted that the fuel hoses linking that pump to the hard lines are looking a
> bit worn.  They aren't leaking, but they are showing signs that I should think
> about replacing them.
>
> Short of "let somebody else do it," what's the best advice for draining those
> lines/hoses for replacement?  Do I need to worry about siphon effects?
>
> --
> _______________________________________________

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Mar 13 03:15:20 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 10:15:20 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] fuel hose replacement
References: <4B035E12-0A00-4DC2-B0F1-96287D3FAD37@panix.com>
	<982C3E80921A413F89B695BE1696DA88@rileyPC>
Message-ID: <699844BD1AAC480B90EE2C4C1A51BC93@paul>

An American car with emissions kit has a vented tank so it isn't going to 
pressurise anyway, and that can be avoided on earlier tanks by simply 
removing the filler cap!  That has to be done on those tanks anyway, as any 
pressure applied to blowing fuel back into the tank is simply going to push 
fuel back out of the feed pipe as soon as the pressure is released.

But as this is a 75 anyway, presumably a rubber bumper, the pump is above 
the top of the tank in any case and you won't get any siphoning with the 
pump disconnected unless you deliberately lower the hose.  You may get some 
when disconnecting the hose from the tank pipe if that is what you have, but 
if you have the new one to hand it isn't going to be much.  You can ignore 
any drainage from the pipe leading to the front, it will be negligible.

However I changed the pump at the roadside on my chrome bumper and got no 
siphoning at all, I presume because of the anti-rollover valve in the filler 
cap on the sealed tank allows a small negative pressure to develop after 
driving for a while.  When I subsequently replaced the hoses in the garage 
(without driving it first) it pee'd out.

PaulH.


----- Original Message ----- 
> Remove the fuel filler cap then remove the hose from the tank at the fuel 
> pump. Blow a short burst of air into the hose end to push the fuel back 
> into the tank and empty the feed line. Don't  blow too much air into the 
> hose or you will pressurize the tank and it will force the fuel out of the 
> tank back into the hose.

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Mar 13 03:33:23 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 10:33:23 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] fuel hose replacement
References: <4B035E12-0A00-4DC2-B0F1-96287D3FAD37@panix.com>
	<4D7C9AC4.9020802@snet.net>
Message-ID: <F1029C416C3548F192667B5AD4E03015@paul>

The pickup is in the bottom of the tank.  Raising the right rear corner 
helps when changing the sender, but makes no difference to the fuel supply 
... think about it ... driving on slopes?

----- Original Message ----- 
> If you have about a 1/4 tank (or less) of fuel you can use a jack to raise 
> the right side only to force the fuel in the tank away from the pump hose 
> ... 

From frankk12 at verizon.net  Sun Mar 13 05:54:11 2011
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 08:54:11 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Clutch Hose Replacement
Message-ID: <1845C7EF47794927B35C419A71368FC6@frankdcczr6l6k>

My MGA needs the cluctch hose replaced. I am assuming this is the case as the
clutch pedal goes to the floor and stays there then very slowly returns. I
have diagnosed this as a collapsed hose to the slave cylinder much like I have
experienced with brake hoses on my MGB. Since the engineering is the same as
for the B, in fact the hose is the same part number, I was curious if there is
an expeditious way to replace this hose. I have not done this in a long time
but do remember it is quite a small space down there. Any suggestions? It
would be the same procedure on a B.
Frank Krajewski

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Mar 13 07:13:06 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:13:06 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Clutch Hose Replacement
References: <1845C7EF47794927B35C419A71368FC6@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <0EEF1BF45E3B445A8602A3478C4C8160@paul>

Eh?  You push the pedal to the floor, take your foot off, and the pedal only 
returns slowly?  I can understand a hose ballooning under pressure and so 
giving insufficient clutch thrown to engage first/reverse without grinding, 
but that sounds more to me like a partially seized pedal or master.

Or do you mean the pedal comes back normally but the clutch only slowly 
engages?  That could well be caused by the flex hose going 'one way' from a 
flap of rubber internally, rather than collapsing.


PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> My MGA needs the cluctch hose replaced. I am assuming this is the case as 
> the
> clutch pedal goes to the floor and stays there then very slowly returns. I
> have diagnosed this as a collapsed hose to the slave cylinder ... 

From frankk12 at verizon.net  Sun Mar 13 08:26:52 2011
From: frankk12 at verizon.net (frankk12 at verizon.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:26:52 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Clutch Hose Replacement
References: <1845C7EF47794927B35C419A71368FC6@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<0EEF1BF45E3B445A8602A3478C4C8160@paul>
Message-ID: <9952D7D8B47149F5BEB159D8C9571EC2@frankdcczr6l6k>

Paul: The pedal gradually returns to its normal position. I can engage any 
gear, release the clutch and nothing happens as the clutch remains engaged 
then slowly returns and the car begins to move. It's symptomatic of what 
happens when the brakes hoses fail. The hose looks fine but the interior has 
collapsed.
Frank
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Hunt" <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <frankk12 at verizon.net>; "MG List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Clutch Hose Replacement


> Eh?  You push the pedal to the floor, take your foot off, and the pedal 
> only returns slowly?  I can understand a hose ballooning under pressure 
> and so giving insufficient clutch thrown to engage first/reverse without 
> grinding, but that sounds more to me like a partially seized pedal or 
> master.
>
> Or do you mean the pedal comes back normally but the clutch only slowly 
> engages?  That could well be caused by the flex hose going 'one way' from 
> a flap of rubber internally, rather than collapsing.
>
>
> PaulH.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> My MGA needs the cluctch hose replaced. I am assuming this is the case as 
>> the
>> clutch pedal goes to the floor and stays there then very slowly returns. 
>> I
>> have diagnosed this as a collapsed hose to the slave cylinder ...

From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com  Sun Mar 13 09:16:43 2011
From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 12:16:43 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Clutch Hose Replacement
In-Reply-To: <9952D7D8B47149F5BEB159D8C9571EC2@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <1845C7EF47794927B35C419A71368FC6@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<0EEF1BF45E3B445A8602A3478C4C8160@paul>
	<9952D7D8B47149F5BEB159D8C9571EC2@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <04C2F61A-3614-4900-AB1C-4DF762BA039B@trebelhorn.com>

You asked how to do it -- here's my suggestion.

The hardest part is re-attaching the top of the hose.  Everything  
else is fairly simple.

1.  drain the fluid.
2.  cut the hose -- actually, cut away all of the rubber part until  
all that remains are the metal fittings on either end.
3.  Put a deep-well socket on these and remove.  (For the top, you  
will need an open-end wrench on the nut above.)
4.  attach new hose to slave cyl.
5.  attach new hose to hard line.  I do this final step from the top  
side, reaching down through the engine bay, using one wrench to hold  
the hose and the other to turn the nut.

It's been a few months since I did this, so I may have forgotten  
something.  But that's pretty much it.

Also, when I did it, it was part of a complete hydraulic system fix  
-- pedal box and both masters out, rebuild clutch master and slave,  
etc.  I actually put the hose on the slave before they went back on  
the car, I think... but not important for your purposes.

Not that tough -- good luck with it.
Matt

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sun Mar 13 09:19:13 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:19:13 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Clutch Hose Replacement
In-Reply-To: <1845C7EF47794927B35C419A71368FC6@frankdcczr6l6k>
References: <1845C7EF47794927B35C419A71368FC6@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <237105.19840.qm@smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This is one case where the real world does not mirror theory.

In theory you don't have to move the slave cylinder.  Disconnect the 
metal pipe from the hose.  Remove the retaining nut from same end of 
hose to disconnect hose form chassis bracket.  Unscrew hose from 
slave cylinder.  Installation is reverse of removal, remembering to 
reinstall the copper sealing washer at the slave end of the hose.

In practice, due to limited space, it may be more prudent to dismount 
the slave cylinder first (2 large bolts), then unscrew the slave 
cylinder from the hose.  This may allow more working space to 
disconnect the metal pipe and remove the retaining nut.


At 08:54 AM 3/13/2011 -0400, frankk12 at verizon.net wrote:
>.... I was curious if there is an expeditious way to replace this hose. ....
>....

From awhitema at panix.com  Sun Mar 13 11:01:05 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:01:05 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] fuel hose replacement
In-Reply-To: <699844BD1AAC480B90EE2C4C1A51BC93@paul>
References: <4B035E12-0A00-4DC2-B0F1-96287D3FAD37@panix.com>
	<982C3E80921A413F89B695BE1696DA88@rileyPC>
	<699844BD1AAC480B90EE2C4C1A51BC93@paul>
Message-ID: <03F96EE3-E028-4B5A-A6F4-A69482F929C7@panix.com>

On Mar 13, 2011, at 3:15 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:

> But as this is a 75 anyway, presumably a rubber bumper, the pump is above
the top of the tank in any case and you won't get any siphoning with the pump
disconnected unless you deliberately lower the hose.  You may get some when
disconnecting the hose from the tank pipe if that is what you have, but if you
have the new one to hand it isn't going to be much.  You can ignore any
drainage from the pipe leading to the front, it will be negligible.

As it turned out, the front pipe had a bit more fuel than the rear, but it was
easy to collect.  The rear hose cracked as I was removing it, so it was very
much a case of borrowed time there.

Of course, I can't have good news without bad news, and I discovered this
morning that I misplaced the gas cap.  Guess I'll be driving around with a
plastic bag over the hole until I get the replacement (nothing locally
available).

--
Aaron

From awhitema at panix.com  Sun Mar 13 17:06:42 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 17:06:42 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
Message-ID: <064E8025-1351-4153-B9F7-CD2CC5F98D5C@panix.com>

OK, enquiring minds (well, mine) want to know.

Moss sells a few basic gas caps:
 202-750, covering 1962-69
 202-755, covering 1970-74 and 1976-1980
 202-765, covering "1975 cars with single carb and no cat"

The Moss rep was unable to tell me why 1975 B was so special as to get its
very own cap.  Surely there is a story here?

--

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Sun Mar 13 18:40:18 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 18:40:18 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
In-Reply-To: <064E8025-1351-4153-B9F7-CD2CC5F98D5C@panix.com>
Message-ID: <C9A2C012.2FDC1%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

Yeah, but it's probably nothing good...

75-76 was the nadir in terms of BMC adapting to the regulatory environment.
After that they sort of started catching up and even <gasp> improving things
again.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 3/13/11 5:06 PM, Aaron Whiteman at awhitema at panix.com wrote:

> OK, enquiring minds (well, mine) want to know.
> 
> Moss sells a few basic gas caps:
>  202-750, covering 1962-69
>  202-755, covering 1970-74 and 1976-1980
>  202-765, covering "1975 cars with single carb and no cat"
> 
> The Moss rep was unable to tell me why 1975 B was so special as to get its
> very own cap.  Surely there is a story here?
> 
> --

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 19:06:37 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 21:06:37 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
In-Reply-To: <C9A2C012.2FDC1%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
References: <C9A2C012.2FDC1%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <0DB9ED36-AC2A-4E16-9156-7D1432C466AB@gmail.com>

Well the only problem with that theory, is that the same cap is used for the
70-74 and the 76-80.

On Mar 13, 2011, at 8:40 PM, Max Heim wrote:

> Yeah, but it's probably nothing good...
>
> 75-76 was the nadir in terms of BMC adapting to the regulatory environment.
> After that they sort of started catching up and even <gasp> improving
things
> again.
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Mountain View, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>
>
> on 3/13/11 5:06 PM, Aaron Whiteman at awhitema at panix.com wrote:
>
>> OK, enquiring minds (well, mine) want to know.
>>
>> Moss sells a few basic gas caps:
>> 202-750, covering 1962-69
>> 202-755, covering 1970-74 and 1976-1980
>> 202-765, covering "1975 cars with single carb and no cat"
>>
>> The Moss rep was unable to tell me why 1975 B was so special as to get its
>> very own cap.  Surely there is a story here?
>>
>> --
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com

From 1971mgb at cox.net  Sun Mar 13 19:54:48 2011
From: 1971mgb at cox.net (1971mgb at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 22:54:48 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] RPM's on my B
In-Reply-To: <C9A2C012.2FDC1%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20110313225448.1KAEK.39402.imail@eastrmwml47>

I've had a problem on my 71 "B" for years now, that is to say my RPM drop drastically while idling at a stop light or the car is just sitting and idling, normally it starts out about 1100 then a few seconds later my RPM's drop to around 500 or lower, then I have to pull the choke just to keep the car running
I've rebuild the carb's (HS4) I put in a few different distributors, set the valves, no known vacume leaks,nothing seems to cure this issue, any comments or suggestions would;lde be more than welcomed.


71 B

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 14 00:11:06 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 00:11:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
In-Reply-To: <064E8025-1351-4153-B9F7-CD2CC5F98D5C@panix.com>
Message-ID: <350578.49478.qm@web112106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sun, 3/13/11, Aaron Whiteman <awhitema at panix.com> wrote:


> The Moss
rep was unable to tell me why 1975 B was so
> special as to get its
> very own
cap.  Surely there is a story here?

1975 was the first year unleaded gas was
required in the
US.  Never buy a 1975 US-spec car (or anything made
between
1975 and the late 80s if you can help it).

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar 14 01:47:58 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:47:58 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Clutch Hose Replacement
References: <1845C7EF47794927B35C419A71368FC6@frankdcczr6l6k>
	<0EEF1BF45E3B445A8602A3478C4C8160@paul>
	<9952D7D8B47149F5BEB159D8C9571EC2@frankdcczr6l6k>
Message-ID: <B5C75F28C8A44CF9ACEC80BFC18E63D6@paul>

The pedal should return immediately, regardless of what the actual clutch is 
doing, *if* it has it's own return spring like the MGB, but there should 
also be a return spring inside the master.  If this didn't happen you 
wouldn't be able to bleed the clutch hydraulics (or the brakes) using the 
pedal.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Paul: The pedal gradually returns to its normal position. 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar 14 02:27:52 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 09:27:52 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] RPM's on my B
References: <20110313225448.1KAEK.39402.imail@eastrmwml47>
Message-ID: <33DA2894005B443EB9742764DF980E1B@paul>

Presumably it starts off idling relatively normally (although 1100 is much 
higher than normal) then drops after a while.  Is this a gradual drop?  Or a 
sudden drop?  It's fairly normal for HSs to drop gradually if left idling 
for a long time, especially in hot weather, as they heat up when idling and 
don't have the temperature compensation of the HIF.  However a starting 
point of 1100 should be more than enough to stop it stalling unless left for 
a very long time indeed.

If it drops suddenly this can be caused by sticking throttle spindle/s, 
linkages, cable or pedal.  While it's still idling high press each carb in 
turn down onto it's stop and see what happens.  Your should also have a 
slight amount of free-play in the throttle cable, where the finger on 
throttle shaft touches the choke shaft, if the carbs are hanging on the 
cable as this heats up it will expand which will also cause the idle to drop 
slowly.  However if blipping the throttle just before it stalls makes it 
idle at 1100 again for a few more moments then it won't be that, but 
something sticking.

That's where I'd start anyway, although a number of other things including 
timing going retarded for some reason will also cause the idle to drop.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> I've had a problem on my 71 "B" for years now, that is to say my RPM drop 
> drastically while idling at a stop light or the car is just sitting and 
> idling, normally it starts out about 1100 then a few seconds later my 
> RPM's drop to around 500 or lower, then I have to pull the choke just to 
> keep the car running

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar 14 02:13:58 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 09:13:58 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
References: <C9A2C012.2FDC1%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<0DB9ED36-AC2A-4E16-9156-7D1432C466AB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B2C1F2D6A1A425EB59106FF03955C84@paul>

Cat cars had the restricted filler neck which won't accept an unleaded 
nozzle.  It's possible that initially they could only get a 'non-standard' 
filler neck and cap to meet the requirement date, but from 76 they were able 
to get a neck engineered to accept the earlier non-vented cap.  Or maybe 
not.  You can't even go by the nominal year of your car, it would have to be 
the chassis number - the Parts Catalogue states the odd-ball cap and neck 
were used on unleaded cars up to 386601.  That's if your car has the 
original filler neck ...

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 

> Well the only problem with that theory, is that the same cap is used for 
> the
> 70-74 and the 76-80.
>
> On Mar 13, 2011, at 8:40 PM, Max Heim wrote:
>
>> Yeah, but it's probably nothing good...
>>
>> 75-76 was the nadir in terms of BMC adapting to the regulatory 
>> environment.
>> After that they sort of started catching up and even <gasp> improving
> things
>> again.
>>
>> on 3/13/11 5:06 PM, Aaron Whiteman at awhitema at panix.com wrote:
>>
>>> OK, enquiring minds (well, mine) want to know.
>>>
>>> Moss sells a few basic gas caps:
>>> 202-750, covering 1962-69
>>> 202-755, covering 1970-74 and 1976-1980
>>> 202-765, covering "1975 cars with single carb and no cat"

From mgbob at juno.com  Mon Mar 14 06:40:36 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:40:36 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] RPM's on my B
Message-ID: <20110314.094036.27632.4@webmail13.vgs.untd.com>

  I will second Paul's suggestion that something is sticking, then releasing.
See that the throttle cable moves smoothly. One broken strand can sometimes
catch in the sheath.  Disconnect the return springs and see that they have
some stretch & recovery ability.  While they are off, move the shafts and see
that they turn smoothly, from wide open and to closed. Also jiggle the shafts,
to check for wear. If you can, try to get a drop of oil onto the shafts where
they enter the SU body.  Before the springs are reconnected, double-check the
attachment points; one often sees springs connected to wrong place.  Can you
observe this event at home, watching the linkages immediately after
stopping?Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: <1971mgb at cox.net>
To: MG List <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [Mgs] RPM's on my B
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 22:54:48 -0400

I've had a problem on my 71 "B" for years now, that is to say my RPM drop
drastically while idling at a stop light or the car is just sitting and
idling, normally it starts out about 1100 then a few seconds later my RPM's
drop to around 500 or lower, then I have to pull the choke just to keep the
car running
I've rebuild the carb's (HS4) I put in a few different distributors, set the
valves, no known vacume leaks,nothing seems to cure this issue, any comments
or suggestions would;lde be more than welcomed.


71 B
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From awhitema at panix.com  Mon Mar 14 07:06:08 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 07:06:08 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
In-Reply-To: <1B2C1F2D6A1A425EB59106FF03955C84@paul>
References: <C9A2C012.2FDC1%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<0DB9ED36-AC2A-4E16-9156-7D1432C466AB@gmail.com>
	<1B2C1F2D6A1A425EB59106FF03955C84@paul>
Message-ID: <5773534A-9430-4D65-B83B-C5CBAFF01BDC@panix.com>

On Mar 14, 2011, at 2:13 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:

> Cat cars had the restricted filler neck which won't accept an unleaded
nozzle.

Right, but the '75 wasn't a cat car.  No restricted neck, no warnings about
unleaded fuel only.

It did have the horrid convoluted intake/exhaust manifold that came withe
cursed ZS carb... and this goofy one-off gas cap.

From glenfel at sympatico.ca  Tue Mar 15 18:37:53 2011
From: glenfel at sympatico.ca (glenfel at sympatico.ca)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 21:37:53 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it all
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP6018768EEF323FF370A234DECE0@phx.gbl>

Glen Eldridge

235 Stillview Ave.

Pointe Claire QC H9R 2Y4

514-426-6698 home

514-686-0565 cell

 

 

 

 


In case you think gas prices too high .where YOU are! . . 

 

gas in Hazelton.jpg

 

This was taken in Hazelton BC

 

 



 

 

 

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3506 - Release Date: 03/14/11

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image0011.jpg]

From rbgosling at googlemail.com  Wed Mar 16 01:16:49 2011
From: rbgosling at googlemail.com (Richard Gosling)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 08:16:49 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it  all
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP6018768EEF323FF370A234DECE0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6018768EEF323FF370A234DECE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinfGg9zJe7P-jvNUJi-2hSAKXYzti4c6BS3J4a-@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry Glen, you can't send attachments via the MG List.  If the photo's on
the 'net somewhere you could send us a link to it?

N.B. Super Unleaded (which I have to use, having replaced my MG with a
Lotus) is #1.31.9 per litre when I filled up yesterday - equivalent to $7.76
per US gallon at today's exchange rate.  Since I'm doing mostly town driving
these days (yes, hardly what a Lotus is optimised for!) that gallon will
take me about 15 miles...

Richard

- former owner of Sammy ('73 Black Tulip 'BGT)
- current owner of Lilith ('90 Midnight Blue Lotus Excel SE)

On 16 March 2011 01:37, <glenfel at sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Glen Eldridge
>
> 235 Stillview Ave.
>
> Pointe Claire QC H9R 2Y4
>
> 514-426-6698 home
>
> 514-686-0565 cell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In case you think gas prices too high .where YOU are! . .
>
>
>
> gas in Hazelton.jpg
>
>
>
> This was taken in Hazelton BC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  _____
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3506 - Release Date: 03/14/11
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
> image0011.jpg]
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rbgosling at googlemail.com

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Wed Mar 16 01:28:13 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:28:13 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it   all
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinfGg9zJe7P-jvNUJi-2hSAKXYzti4c6BS3J4a-@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6018768EEF323FF370A234DECE0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTinfGg9zJe7P-jvNUJi-2hSAKXYzti4c6BS3J4a-@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3DB34EB6-78DD-4E7D-BE50-C7F232D1F754@ghs.com.au>

Hoo Boy that's expensive, we're paying AUD$6.85 per Imperial Gallon here which
is actually more than a US Gallon.  AUD - USD exchange rate is almost 1 to
1....

Murray Arundell
Currently in Cairns nr the Barrier Reef, sadly on business not vacation.

Sent from my iPad

On 16/03/2011, at 18:16, Richard Gosling <rbgosling at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Sorry Glen, you can't send attachments via the MG List.  If the photo's on
> the 'net somewhere you could send us a link to it?
>
> N.B. Super Unleaded (which I have to use, having replaced my MG with a
> Lotus) is #1.31.9 per litre when I filled up yesterday - equivalent to
$7.76
> per US gallon at today's exchange rate.  Since I'm doing mostly town
driving
> these days (yes, hardly what a Lotus is optimised for!) that gallon will
> take me about 15 miles...
>
> Richard
>
> - former owner of Sammy ('73 Black Tulip 'BGT)
> - current owner of Lilith ('90 Midnight Blue Lotus Excel SE)
>
> On 16 March 2011 01:37, <glenfel at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> Glen Eldridge
>>
>> 235 Stillview Ave.
>>
>> Pointe Claire QC H9R 2Y4
>>
>> 514-426-6698 home
>>
>> 514-686-0565 cell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In case you think gas prices too high .where YOU are! . .
>>
>>
>>
>> gas in Hazelton.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> This was taken in Hazelton BC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3506 - Release Date: 03/14/11
>>
>> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
>> image0011.jpg]
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rbgosling at googlemail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au

From rbgosling at googlemail.com  Wed Mar 16 01:47:38 2011
From: rbgosling at googlemail.com (Richard Gosling)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 08:47:38 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it  all
In-Reply-To: <3DB34EB6-78DD-4E7D-BE50-C7F232D1F754@ghs.com.au>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6018768EEF323FF370A234DECE0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTinfGg9zJe7P-jvNUJi-2hSAKXYzti4c6BS3J4a-@mail.gmail.com>
	<3DB34EB6-78DD-4E7D-BE50-C7F232D1F754@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=eWAubVOTZnV5ocuSC96S42AEWq3mPptBw1NPR@mail.gmail.com>

Well, $4.79 of that price is tax, only $2.97 is the actual price of the fuel
- that's a tax rate of 161%!!!  There's a protest going on at the moment (
www.fairfueluk.com), but with the government (quite rightly) desperate to
sort our budget deficit the best we can hope for is that the tax won't be
increased too much in the next budget.

Richard

On 16 March 2011 08:28, Murray Arundell <arundell at ghs.com.au> wrote:

> Hoo Boy that's expensive, we're paying AUD$6.85 per Imperial Gallon here
> which is actually more than a US Gallon.  AUD - USD exchange rate is almost
> 1 to 1....
>
> Murray Arundell
> Currently in Cairns nr the Barrier Reef, sadly on business not vacation.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 16/03/2011, at 18:16, Richard Gosling <rbgosling at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry Glen, you can't send attachments via the MG List.  If the photo's
> on
> > the 'net somewhere you could send us a link to it?
> >
> > N.B. Super Unleaded (which I have to use, having replaced my MG with a
> > Lotus) is #1.31.9 per litre when I filled up yesterday - equivalent to
> $7.76
> > per US gallon at today's exchange rate.  Since I'm doing mostly town
> driving
> > these days (yes, hardly what a Lotus is optimised for!) that gallon will
> > take me about 15 miles...
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > - former owner of Sammy ('73 Black Tulip 'BGT)
> > - current owner of Lilith ('90 Midnight Blue Lotus Excel SE)
> >
> > On 16 March 2011 01:37, <glenfel at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Glen Eldridge
> >>
> >> 235 Stillview Ave.
> >>
> >> Pointe Claire QC H9R 2Y4
> >>
> >> 514-426-6698 home
> >>
> >> 514-686-0565 cell
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In case you think gas prices too high .where YOU are! . .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> gas in Hazelton.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This was taken in Hazelton BC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _____
> >>
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3506 - Release Date: 03/14/11
> >>
> >> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name
> of
> >> image0011.jpg]
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Mgs at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >> Unsubscribe:
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rbgosling at googlemail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au

From eric at erickson.on.net  Wed Mar 16 02:15:01 2011
From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric Erickson)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 19:45:01 +1030
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it   all
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinfGg9zJe7P-jvNUJi-2hSAKXYzti4c6BS3J4a-@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6018768EEF323FF370A234DECE0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTinfGg9zJe7P-jvNUJi-2hSAKXYzti4c6BS3J4a-@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B69B7ED7-231A-42F4-8B93-86A30CB398EA@erickson.on.net>

On 16/03/2011, at 6:46 PM, Richard Gosling wrote:

> Sorry Glen, you can't send attachments via the MG List.  If the photo's on
> the 'net somewhere you could send us a link to it?
>
> N.B. Super Unleaded (which I have to use, having replaced my MG with a
> Lotus) is #1.31.9 per litre when I filled up yesterday - equivalent to
$7.76
> per US gallon at today's exchange rate.  Since I'm doing mostly town
driving
> these days (yes, hardly what a Lotus is optimised for!) that gallon will
> take me about 15 miles...
>

I think they are paying significantly more than that in England.

I just got my MG off the dyno - it has a belly full of AVGAS and as that is
what it is tuned for, that is what it will use for now.

$3.65 per litre - convert THAT to dollars per gallon and feel your wallet
hurt.

I think America has some of the cheapest petrol prices so they might be in for
some pain pretty soon.




Eric

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 16 02:35:23 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 02:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it   all
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=eWAubVOTZnV5ocuSC96S42AEWq3mPptBw1NPR@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <145902.92771.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Here in the Westerwald area of Germany it's about
EUR 1,55/l.  So that would be about $8 a gallon US
if I figured it right.  It costs about as much to
drive my rented Ford Fiesta here as it does to drive
my Chevy Trailblazer in the Puget Sound area of
Washington.

From rbgosling at googlemail.com  Wed Mar 16 02:36:21 2011
From: rbgosling at googlemail.com (Richard Gosling)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 09:36:21 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it  all
In-Reply-To: <B69B7ED7-231A-42F4-8B93-86A30CB398EA@erickson.on.net>
References: <BLU0-SMTP6018768EEF323FF370A234DECE0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTinfGg9zJe7P-jvNUJi-2hSAKXYzti4c6BS3J4a-@mail.gmail.com>
	<B69B7ED7-231A-42F4-8B93-86A30CB398EA@erickson.on.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin9KaK1Kv-UuGDuOjgYxjz40-YcicMm04=zJaSU@mail.gmail.com>

> "> N.B. Super Unleaded ... is #1.31.9 per litre when I filled up yesterday
> - equivalent to
> $7.76
> > per US gallon at today's exchange rate...
> I think they are paying significantly more than that in England."
>
> This is in England (well, I'm in Scotland, but it's the same over all the
UK).  Sorry, it seems something has stripped the Pound sign out and replaced
it with '#', so the currency wasn't clear in my original message.

According to this table http://www.kshitij.com/research/petrol.shtml (the
most recent I could find in a quick Google), the UK has the second highest
prices of all the countries listed, beaten only by Norway.

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 16 02:38:32 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 02:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it all
In-Reply-To: <B69B7ED7-231A-42F4-8B93-86A30CB398EA@erickson.on.net>
Message-ID: <545852.89780.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Wed, 3/16/11, Eric Erickson <eric at erickson.on.net> wrote:


> I think America has some of the cheapest petrol prices so
> they might be in for some pain pretty soon.

It got to within a few cents of $5.00/gallon just before
the bubble burst.  I've been away all month so I'm sure
I'll be in for a fun surprise when I return.

From mrkshrmn at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 16 13:14:32 2011
From: mrkshrmn at hotmail.com (MARK SHERMAN)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:14:32 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] In today's Wall St Journal: China's SAIC to Launch MG Sedan
 in U.K.
Message-ID: <AANLkTik1z9PgNmRzKqzMtSP8hV-TC3LfyD50Z9sFnXiP@mail.gmail.com>

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703566504576202221563232028.html?mod=WSJ_hp_editorsPicks_3
Mark Sherman

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Wed Mar 16 13:24:43 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:24:43 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] In today's Wall St Journal: China's SAIC to Launch MG
 Sedan in U.K.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik1z9PgNmRzKqzMtSP8hV-TC3LfyD50Z9sFnXiP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C9A66A9B.2FF18%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

Images here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/23/saic-owned-mg-launches-mg-6-first-all-new
-car-in-14-years/

Pretty generic...


on 3/16/11 1:14 PM, MARK SHERMAN at mrkshrmn at hotmail.com wrote:

> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703566504576202221563232028.html
> ?mod=WSJ_hp_editorsPicks_3
> Mark Sherman
> _______________________________________________


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From h.duinhoven at planet.nl  Wed Mar 16 13:41:15 2011
From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:41:15 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it all
References: <BLU0-SMTP6018768EEF323FF370A234DECE0@phx.gbl><AANLkTinfGg9zJe7P-jvNUJi-2hSAKXYzti4c6BS3J4a-@mail.gmail.com>
	<B69B7ED7-231A-42F4-8B93-86A30CB398EA@erickson.on.net>
Message-ID: <58BB2020B2EE4EF48ABAE379B0C0E471@uw471de61b465c>

Wow, thats even more expensive than in The Netherlands!
Price for 95 unleaded overhere is about 1.60 Euros per litre.
Convert that against $1.30 per Euro...

Currently spring is here and I now regulary do my tours on a 1973 Puch 
moped.
Lots of miles against a veru reasonable cost...

The BGT will be driven from April on...

Cheers,

Hans

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Erickson" <eric at erickson.on.net>
To: "MGList List" <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] FW: A brief distraction from the seriousness of it all


> On 16/03/2011, at 6:46 PM, Richard Gosling wrote:
>
>> Sorry Glen, you can't send attachments via the MG List.  If the photo's 
>> on
>> the 'net somewhere you could send us a link to it?
>>
>> N.B. Super Unleaded (which I have to use, having replaced my MG with a
>> Lotus) is #1.31.9 per litre when I filled up yesterday - equivalent to
> $7.76
>> per US gallon at today's exchange rate.  Since I'm doing mostly town
> driving
>> these days (yes, hardly what a Lotus is optimised for!) that gallon will
>> take me about 15 miles...
>>
>
> I think they are paying significantly more than that in England.
>
> I just got my MG off the dyno - it has a belly full of AVGAS and as that 
> is
> what it is tuned for, that is what it will use for now.
>
> $3.65 per litre - convert THAT to dollars per gallon and feel your wallet
> hurt.
>
> I think America has some of the cheapest petrol prices so they might be in 
> for
> some pain pretty soon.
>
>
>
>
> Eric

From fschroed at mindspring.com  Wed Mar 16 14:08:54 2011
From: fschroed at mindspring.com (Fred/Sue Schroeder)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:08:54 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [Mgs] for sale 1972 B
Message-ID: <3751453.1300309734562.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Spring has arrived in North Carolina and it is time to think about selling my 1972 B.  I simply have not been driving it enough to justify the insurance, tags and taxes.  The car has been rebuilt and is a nice looking and performing "daily driver."  Asking price is $5500.  Contact me for additional details, photos, etc.  My apologies if this for sale notice offends anyone.  Fred S.  <fschroed at mindspring.com>

From don at napanet.net  Wed Mar 16 14:29:55 2011
From: don at napanet.net (Don)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:29:55 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] for sale 1972 B
In-Reply-To: <3751453.1300309734562.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.
	earthlink.net>
References: <3751453.1300309734562.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20110316212959.DD55AAE6A2@mail.dsl.napanet.net>

I think tossing the word out to the MG community before placing ads 
is a benefit to the hobby.  There is a greater chance another old 
British car will stay in North America if you sell it to a US or 
Canadian enthusiast.  Because so many cars have been shipped abroad, 
it is a good thing for us to keep the few we have left on this continent.

Don Scott
Calistoga CA USA
1966 TR4A
1962 MGA Mk 2
1973 MGB GT (selling)
1963-7 MGB (seeking)
Misc. Japanese cars





At 02:08 PM 3/16/2011, Fred/Sue Schroeder wrote:
>Spring has arrived in North Carolina and it is time to think about 
>selling my 1972 B.  I simply have not been driving it enough to 
>justify the insurance, tags and taxes.  The car has been rebuilt and 
>is a nice looking and performing "daily driver."  Asking price is 
>$5500.  Contact me for additional details, photos, etc.  My 
>apologies if this for sale notice offends anyone.  Fred 
>S.  <fschroed at mindspring.com>
>_______________________________________________

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 17 05:30:14 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:30:14 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] TF on Ebay, NFI
Message-ID: <SNT124-W204A00F8220F0EB98B9273B7B10@phx.gbl>

Looks like all the hard work is done!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120698592887&vi
ewitem=

From dave at ranteer.com  Thu Mar 17 19:08:55 2011
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:08:55 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard question
Message-ID: <E3D6939516E24629AACC717095F8A1E8@ranteer.local>

o;?the babingdon pillowb went from 68 to 72?

when did the banjo steering wheel get dropped?

thanks!

From palte at gmx.net  Thu Mar 17 23:45:57 2011
From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 07:45:57 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] Steering wheel
In-Reply-To: <E3D6939516E24629AACC717095F8A1E8@ranteer.local>
References: <E3D6939516E24629AACC717095F8A1E8@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <20110318064557.227410@gmx.net>

Probably the last year for the banjo (never heard that indication before, but it it is celar what you mean) steering wheel was 1969.


My friend Henk's 1969 has a banjo style wheel and leather covered seats.
Mine is a 1970 and has the smaller wheel and vinyl covered seats.




-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:08:55 -0500
> Von: "Dave" <dave at ranteer.com>
> An: mgs at autox.team.net
> Betreff: [Mgs] dashboard question

> o;?the babingdon pillowb went from 68 to 72?
> 
> when did the banjo steering wheel get dropped?
> 
> thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/palte at gmx.net

-- 
NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen!			
Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Mar 18 02:36:01 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 09:36:01 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
References: <C9A2C012.2FDC1%max_heim@sbcglobal.net><0DB9ED36-AC2A-4E16-9156-7D1432C466AB@gmail.com><1B2C1F2D6A1A425EB59106FF03955C84@paul>
	<5773534A-9430-4D65-B83B-C5CBAFF01BDC@panix.com>
Message-ID: <CAC656AE834746138FBA516F69F57D42@paul>

According to Clausager California cars had cats and used unleaded from 75. 
The rest of North America was a year later.  That is not differentiated in 
the Parts Catalogue.

----- Original Message ----- 
> On Mar 14, 2011, at 2:13 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
>
>> Cat cars had the restricted filler neck which won't accept an unleaded
> nozzle.
>
> Right, but the '75 wasn't a cat car.  No restricted neck, no warnings 
> about
> unleaded fuel only.

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Mar 18 03:20:03 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:20:03 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard question
References: <E3D6939516E24629AACC717095F8A1E8@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <FB835610343D40F28787D63C853CA989@paul>

For the 1970 model.

----- Original Message ----- 
> when did the banjo steering wheel get dropped?

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Mar 18 03:05:05 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:05:05 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] In today's Wall St Journal: China's SAIC to Launch MG
 Sedan in U.K.
References: <AANLkTik1z9PgNmRzKqzMtSP8hV-TC3LfyD50Z9sFnXiP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37521717775D4D7D913D2832557FB9DC@paul>

I've seen it in the 'flesh', it looks OK, although the launch engine is lost 
in the engine bay.  Hopefully a six-cylinder in time to justify the name, 
and possibly the MG badge.  At the moment it is probably really a 'Rover' - 
MG's either being unique or sports variants of the basic saloons - but they 
can't use the name.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
Subject: [Mgs] In today's Wall St Journal: China's SAIC to Launch MG Sedan 
in U.K. 

From dannyvarnado at cox.net  Fri Mar 18 05:35:54 2011
From: dannyvarnado at cox.net (dannyvarnado)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 05:35:54 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Steering wheel
References: <E3D6939516E24629AACC717095F8A1E8@ranteer.local>
	<20110318064557.227410@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4739ABD9827B4009905C7BB8ED75B662@dannytyferm096>

Banjo type wheels have been around since the 20s or 30s.  Three sets of 
spokes radiating out from the center hub.
Good looking and very popular.  New ones available in streetrod catalogues.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bert Palte" <palte at gmx.net>
To: "Dave" <dave at ranteer.com>
Cc: <mgs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Steering wheel


> Probably the last year for the banjo (never heard that indication before, 
> but it it is celar what you mean) steering wheel was 1969.
>
>
> My friend Henk's 1969 has a banjo style wheel and leather covered seats.
> Mine is a 1970 and has the smaller wheel and vinyl covered seats.
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>> Datum: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:08:55 -0500
>> Von: "Dave" <dave at ranteer.com>
>> An: mgs at autox.team.net
>> Betreff: [Mgs] dashboard question
>
>> o;?the babingdon pillowb went from 68 to 72?
>>
>> when did the banjo steering wheel get dropped?
>>
>> thanks!
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/palte at gmx.net
>
> -- 
> NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen!
> Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/dannyvarnado at cox.net

From awhitema at panix.com  Fri Mar 18 08:16:29 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:16:29 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
In-Reply-To: <CAC656AE834746138FBA516F69F57D42@paul>
References: <C9A2C012.2FDC1%max_heim@sbcglobal.net><0DB9ED36-AC2A-4E16-9156-7D1432C466AB@gmail.com><1B2C1F2D6A1A425EB59106FF03955C84@paul>
	<5773534A-9430-4D65-B83B-C5CBAFF01BDC@panix.com>
	<CAC656AE834746138FBA516F69F57D42@paul>
Message-ID: <7F3F8CFD-E513-4530-98F0-CD6E06F66E53@panix.com>

On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:36 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:

> According to Clausager California cars had cats and used unleaded from 75.
The rest of North America was a year later.  That is not differentiated in the
Parts Catalogue.

This is interesting.  The part arrived last night ("Gas cap, 1975 MGB w/
single carb and no cat") and didn't fit my car ("1975 MGB w/ single carb, no
cat").

I'm returning it today, replacement ("Gas cap, 1970-74,76-80 MGB") will arrive
as soon as Monday.  I called Moss to let them know, and they looked up the
part.

It applies to two cars:

* 1975 MGB, Single carb, no cat
* 1975 California model Midget 1500 (with a car number range)


The sales guy said he'd have somebody look into it further, but my guess is
that either the cap doesn't apply to the B at all, or the description should
say it applies to the 75 B *with* cat.

I really do need to pick up Clausager at some point.

--
Aaron

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Fri Mar 18 10:07:39 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:07:39 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Apparently the '75 is special
In-Reply-To: <7F3F8CFD-E513-4530-98F0-CD6E06F66E53@panix.com>
Message-ID: <C9A8DF6B.2FFCA%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

Clausager would probably be helpful in your case because the book lists a
month-by-month breakdown of production changes. This is far more detailed
than what the Moss catalog tracks.

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 3/18/11 8:16 AM, Aaron Whiteman at awhitema at panix.com wrote:

> On Mar 18, 2011, at 2:36 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
> 
>> According to Clausager California cars had cats and used unleaded from 75.
> The rest of North America was a year later.  That is not differentiated in the
> Parts Catalogue.
> 
> This is interesting.  The part arrived last night ("Gas cap, 1975 MGB w/
> single carb and no cat") and didn't fit my car ("1975 MGB w/ single carb, no
> cat").
> 
> I'm returning it today, replacement ("Gas cap, 1970-74,76-80 MGB") will arrive
> as soon as Monday.  I called Moss to let them know, and they looked up the
> part.
> 
> It applies to two cars:
> 
> * 1975 MGB, Single carb, no cat
> * 1975 California model Midget 1500 (with a car number range)
> 
> 
> The sales guy said he'd have somebody look into it further, but my guess is
> that either the cap doesn't apply to the B at all, or the description should
> say it applies to the 75 B *with* cat.
> 
> I really do need to pick up Clausager at some point.
> 
> --
> Aaron

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 19 05:00:50 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 05:00:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] dashboard question
In-Reply-To: <E3D6939516E24629AACC717095F8A1E8@ranteer.local>
Message-ID: <381295.58703.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Thu, 3/17/11, Dave <dave at ranteer.com> wrote:

> ?the babingdon pillowb went from 68

"Babingdon Pillowb"?

From twobees at sprynet.com  Sat Mar 19 17:26:50 2011
From: twobees at sprynet.com (Norm 2Bs)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:26:50 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Sebring Video Coverage or Lack Thereof
Message-ID: <000201cbe695$81f231c0$6401a8c0@normoffice>

When I had time, I would get to Sebring early Saturday morning, watch the
race from many vantage points, even crewed for a friend one time.  In recent
years with less time, I would just watch on Speed TV.  Now, it is ONLY
available on ESPN3 on the Internet.  Whose greed was responsible for this?
Sebring's?  ALMS?  Murdoch?  So, now I'm watching it on grainy, jumpy,
illegible, low res 18" image on my 25" high-res computer monitor.  What
stupidity!

I'm going to contact the "sponsors" to let them know what a disaster this
kind of coverage is.

At least I got to see some of the cars live & screaming on Thursday at the
track in practice.

Norm

From shop at justbrits.com  Sat Mar 19 20:53:11 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 22:53:11 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] [Spridgets] Sebring Video Coverage or Lack Thereof
In-Reply-To: <000201cbe695$81f231c0$6401a8c0@normoffice>
References: <000201cbe695$81f231c0$6401a8c0@normoffice>
Message-ID: <4D857A27.2090301@justbrits.com>

<< I'm going to contact the "sponsors" to let them know what
a disaster this kind of coverage is. >>

Pass on the "info" that you find/write to, Norm.

And WHAT you SAY<G> !!  That way we can all jump on it also.
If you would like, I'll even put up on my site with "proper"
"keywords" <VBG> !!!

Ed

From qualitas.jack at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 14:22:34 2011
From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 16:22:34 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Sebring Video Coverage or Lack Thereof
Message-ID: <AANLkTik+CZBWUh-3GFyaNTz_vX2aPpTENXW-rZyyjY1u@mail.gmail.com>

It was on my local ABC channel today. It may be just a regional thing.

I was also appalled that the Rose Bowl wasn't on regular TV this year. I
watched it on ESPN3.

Jack

From tartanredmgb at gmail.com  Sun Mar 20 19:51:31 2011
From: tartanredmgb at gmail.com (tartanredmgb at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:51:31 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] anyone in Orlando to look at an MGB?
Message-ID: <AANLkTinhkz03SYYBdgQYcOPs3uCHVov1i2YiWUWzHVqK@mail.gmail.com>

I have been discussing purchase of an MGB that is located in Orlando FL.
However I am in CA.
Is there anyone that might be able to look at it for me?  I could pay you if
it is a hassle.
Thanks!

From twobees at sprynet.com  Mon Mar 21 12:39:35 2011
From: twobees at sprynet.com (Norm 2Bs)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:39:35 -0400
Subject: [Mgs]  Sebring Video Coverage or Lack Thereof
Message-ID: <005901cbe7ff$b5879730$6401a8c0@normoffice>

Jack said, "It was on my local ABC channel today. It may be just a regional
thing."

Yes, it was on ABC here too - 1.5 hours of a 12 hour race.  That's like a
USA Today state story - 30 words or less on a big story in your state.  And,
too many of us were at church or doing other things to catch that short
synopsis for which we all knew the outcome.

Back in the '90s, the 12-Hour was a big deal here in Florida.  I guess with
so many people leaving the state, it is less important now.

Norm

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar 21 14:34:39 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:34:39 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] Sebring Video Coverage or Lack Thereof
In-Reply-To: <005901cbe7ff$b5879730$6401a8c0@normoffice>
References: <005901cbe7ff$b5879730$6401a8c0@normoffice>
Message-ID: <4D87C46F.5010402@justbrits.com>

Norm said:
<< Yes, it was on ABC here too... >>

THANK YOU Norm, I "knew" I had seen some of it and was thinking
I was ........................... [never mind <G>] !!

See Jack & I are in same TV area !!  Jack, you on Comcast ??

Ed
'63 BJ-7 [ Hortense THE Healey wearing STD IL Plates    AH BJ 7    ]

From ericemarkley at bellsouth.net  Mon Mar 21 18:47:40 2011
From: ericemarkley at bellsouth.net (Eric Markley)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:47:40 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MGA
Message-ID: <DFEKKHDEPKCIEOFDJAEFIECICHAA.ericemarkley@bellsouth.net>

Listers,

My nephew sends me a picture of an MGA that came into his repair shop today.
Looks nice, so I call him and we talk about the car. Clean and solid body
with "nearly perfect" body work and black paint. Likely an extensive and
expensive restoration. Red interior. Knock off wheels with spinners but are
not wire wheels. Ding, Ding, Ding, MGA Deluxe.  I did a quick search to
refresh my memory. I called back to ask him to check the rear brakes; they
are disc brakes. The article I found indicated there were 225 or 255 MkII
Deluxes made in 1962.  If genuine, rather a rare car.  If the car is a
genuine Deluxe and really is in as outstanding condition as it seems to be,
what might the estimated value be?

I will have to force myself to go and look at it in the morning.

Eric in Florida

From ericemarkley at bellsouth.net  Tue Mar 22 17:56:04 2011
From: ericemarkley at bellsouth.net (Eric Markley)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 20:56:04 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MGA Part II
Message-ID: <DFEKKHDEPKCIEOFDJAEFKECJCHAA.ericemarkley@bellsouth.net>

More info,

Yes, I did make the monumental sacrifice and drive to the beach this morning
to gaze upon this treasure of MG history. The things that we must do....

The paint and body are incredible, not over-restored and super shiny modern
two-pack paint, but an outstanding paint and body presentation that truly
looks as the car might have (if not better) in 1962. The difficult compound
curves are smooth and free of ripples and distortion.

The interior and fascia are, likewise, superbly presented and free of any
flaw that I could detect.  I am not a concours judge by ANY means but I
suspect that this car would compete well.

With two exceptions. First, the grille does not seem original. It has the
vertical chrome bars somewhat similar in style to the 1500 MGA that Dad
bought around 1972 (for $175.00!!) but the bars are recessed like a standard
MKII grille and the center bar gives the appearance of a handle. It appears
to be a nicely executed and quality piece but not original. Second, the
steering wheel is not the standard "four sets of spoke forming a X pattern"
MGA steering wheel.

All in all, a very attractive and doubtless desirable car worth a tidy sum.
I did take a few pictures with my Blackberry. I do not have a web site to
park them on but would be more than happy to do so if any of you have one.
Is Barney with us today?

Eric in Florida

From cyberemp at comcast.net  Wed Mar 23 14:47:09 2011
From: cyberemp at comcast.net (cyberemp at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 21:47:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mgs] blatant plug(s)
In-Reply-To: <1253407769.2974088.1300916824096.JavaMail.root@sz0102a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2130383362.2974097.1300916829766.JavaMail.root@sz0102a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

greetings o list. 
I'm selling some of my MG stuff. 
my 65 MGB is on Craigslist @ 
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/2279213026.html 
couldn't start it yesterday. shouldn't be too difficult to sort out though. 


71 parts car or possible restore candidate, Both floors rusted out. whole car needs to go. Had it on craigslist for $100. no takers. W.W. car. 
Disk brake set up for front of MGA. needs work before instal. some W.W. parts, at least one solid wheel hub. 
Wire wheel rear end I was told from MGB-GT One drum and bad looking hub. Other side just axle. Offer? 
3 main early mgb engine short block. Offer? 
I'm in San Francisco Bay Area, California. 94591 

From dave at ranteer.com  Thu Mar 24 14:05:15 2011
From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:05:15 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] mga on craigslist dallas fort worth
In-Reply-To: <2130383362.2974097.1300916829766.JavaMail.root@sz0102a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <2130383362.2974097.1300916829766.JavaMail.root@sz0102a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E5F617BDAB1446F083A493FCC063644B@ranteer.local>

o;?this is not my car no financial interest no relation etc

there is an mga on craigslist (look for either dallas or fort worth) that is
located in Mineral Wells, about 45 minutes west of fort worth
we went to see it this morning
itbs a 59, red, probably painted black originally, painted wire wheels,
chrome all there and in good shape
hasnbt run in years
its essentially complete, has some rust under the passenger door and probably
in trunk.  other than that body appears to be solid and relatively rust free.
it looks like all the engine components and interior components, dashboard,
etc are there.  wear components like carpet, seats, all need to be redone
personally, I would jump on it but I simply cannot take on another project.  I
had hoped I could clean it up and resell it but it really needs a total
restoration.
maybe Ibm wrong but I think a complete car with no major issues is a good
deal at the asking price of $4500.

From ericemarkley at bellsouth.net  Thu Mar 24 17:45:02 2011
From: ericemarkley at bellsouth.net (Eric Markley)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:45:02 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] The MGA
Message-ID: <DFEKKHDEPKCIEOFDJAEFCECNCHAA.ericemarkley@bellsouth.net>

Listers,

I am sending the pictures that I have of the car to the site Pete indicated.

My nephew calls again this morning. The owner came by to check on his car.
He indicated that he does not know much about MGs and only recently
purchased the car for $45,000.00.  I hope that he verified the bona fides of
the car before he bought it. I welcome the thoughts and opinions of all. If
I can meet the owner and obtain better pictures and more information, I will
forward to the list.

Eric

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Mar 20 07:17:15 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:17:15 -0000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>

http://www.mg-rover.org/articles/1/1097/mg6_road_test_review/index.htm?

I have been expecting that because SAIC can't use the Rover name the MG6 is
really going to be more like a Rover than an MG, as MG saloons have always
been performance versions of the Rover variant.  This review does seem to
confirm that, although because a number of aspects of the design particularly
the handling have been done at Longbridge and not China the end result is
somewhere between what one might expect of an MG had the company had both
names.  Having seen it in the 'flesh' I was surprised how good the rear 3/4
view looked (especially view 12) as it's where so many designers run out of
inspiration, not unlike a performance Merc (which may on may not be a good
thing).  Less so the front, which is pretty generic (indeed similar to the new
Honda Accord) and has no trace at all of the MG grille which has always been
the case previously.

PaulH.

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 26 18:05:14 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:05:14 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl>

Interesting - thanks for the link.  I wish they could have provided a few more
shots of the dash and instruments, though.  ;)

I wonder if we'll ever see an MG in the U.S. again?

I do hate to see those damn Sat Navs in every new car, though.

Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT


> From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
> To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@autox.team.net
> Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:17:15 +0000
> Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
>
> http://www.mg-rover.org/articles/1/1097/mg6_road_test_review/index.htm?
>
> I have been expecting that because SAIC can't use the Rover name the MG6 is
> really going to be more like a Rover than an MG, as MG saloons have always
> been performance versions of the Rover variant. This review does seem to
> confirm that, although because a number of aspects of the design
particularly
> the handling have been done at Longbridge and not China the end result is
> somewhere between what one might expect of an MG had the company had both
> names. Having seen it in the 'flesh' I was surprised how good the rear 3/4
> view looked (especially view 12) as it's where so many designers run out of
> inspiration, not unlike a performance Merc (which may on may not be a good
> thing). Less so the front, which is pretty generic (indeed similar to the
new
> Honda Accord) and has no trace at all of the MG grille which has always
been
> the case previously.
>
> PaulH.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sat Mar 26 18:39:12 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:39:12 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl>
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
	<SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>

Why is that Mike? I love Sat-navs when traveling in unfamiliar territory.

Murray Arundell
Brisbane Australia

On 27/03/2011, at 11:05 AM, Mike Eldred wrote:

> Interesting - thanks for the link.  I wish they could have provided a few
more
> shots of the dash and instruments, though.  ;)
>
> I wonder if we'll ever see an MG in the U.S. again?
>
> I do hate to see those damn Sat Navs in every new car, though.
>
> Mike Eldred
> Wilmington, VT
>
>
>> From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
>> To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@autox.team.net
>> Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:17:15 +0000
>> Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
>>
>> http://www.mg-rover.org/articles/1/1097/mg6_road_test_review/index.htm?
>>
>> I have been expecting that because SAIC can't use the Rover name the MG6
is
>> really going to be more like a Rover than an MG, as MG saloons have always
>> been performance versions of the Rover variant. This review does seem to
>> confirm that, although because a number of aspects of the design
> particularly
>> the handling have been done at Longbridge and not China the end result is
>> somewhere between what one might expect of an MG had the company had both
>> names. Having seen it in the 'flesh' I was surprised how good the rear 3/4
>> view looked (especially view 12) as it's where so many designers run out
of
>> inspiration, not unlike a performance Merc (which may on may not be a good
>> thing). Less so the front, which is pretty generic (indeed similar to the
> new
>> Honda Accord) and has no trace at all of the MG grille which has always
> been
>> the case previously.
>>
>> PaulH.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>







Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

From shop at justbrits.com  Sat Mar 26 19:37:33 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:37:33 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
	<SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl>
	<73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4D8EA2ED.3060107@justbrits.com>

<< Why is that Mike? I love Sat-navs when traveling in unfamiliar 
territory. >>

Murray, you are not comparing "Apples to Apples" but
"Apples to Uglis" !!!!

Although Mike could get into "wilderness" 50 miles later he would
be back in civilization <G> !!  And VT would probably fit inside 
Brisbane City Limits [or for sure the Brisbane Metropolitan Area !! ] 
!!   <VBG> !!

And in YOUR case were you to take a trip out past Inaminca (sp?) or 
Simpson Reserves and into areas NW (?) of Lake Eyre, methinks that 
having a SAT-NAV *WOULD* be *MANDATORY*, yes ????

Ed

PS:  I hate them also <G>, Mike !!!
PPS:  I just HAD to do this !!  LOL !

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 26 21:57:20 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 00:57:20 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Sat Nav/GPS rant, was MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
	<SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl>,
	<73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W33D8208C8F18982DF1F3C2B7BB0@phx.gbl>

Well, I'll spare you the full rant, but I think it's already creating large
group of people who cannot read a map, who cannot find their way from one
place to another without a machine telling them where to turn, and who will
follow the machine into oblivion rather than use their own wits.  We actually
have a road in my town with a sign that says "STOP! Your GPS is WRONG!  Road
closed in winter!" Yet, every couple of weeks, some half-wit in an SUV with a
GPS has to be towed out of there anyway.

I've managed to navigate all over the United States and most of Europe without
the aid of a machine to tell me when and where to turn.  The next generation
is going to be immobilized when their GPS breaks and they're more than 10
miles from home.  They won't know how to read a map.  They won't have paid
attention to how they got where they are, because they're used to having a
machine tell them what to do.

I'm no luddite when it comes to computer technology, but I don't want to
surrender my independence to it.  And it's not the machines themselves that I
really dislike, it's that they are being built into cars as a standard piece
of equipment.  I think it's fine if someone wants to use a GPS, but I don't,
and I don't want it as part of any trim package in my car.  The last time I
bought a car, I actually refused one model because the GPS was "standard."  Of
course, since I also won't buy an automatic, my choices are getting pretty
limited, anyway.

-Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT


Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
From: arundell at ghs.com.au
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:39:12 +1000
CC: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk; mgs at autox.team.net
To: redscirocco at hotmail.com


Why is that Mike? I love Sat-navs when traveling in unfamiliar territory.


Murray Arundell
Brisbane Australia



On 27/03/2011, at 11:05 AM, Mike Eldred wrote:

Interesting - thanks for the link.  I wish they could have provided a few
more
shots of the dash and instruments, though.  ;)

I wonder if we'll ever see an MG in the U.S. again?

I do hate to see those damn Sat Navs in every new car, though.

Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT



From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk

To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@autox.team.net

Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:17:15 +0000

Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review



http://www.mg-rover.org/articles/1/1097/mg6_road_test_review/index.htm?



I have been expecting that because SAIC can't use the Rover name the MG6 is

really going to be more like a Rover than an MG, as MG saloons have always

been performance versions of the Rover variant. This review does seem to

confirm that, although because a number of aspects of the design
particularly

the handling have been done at Longbridge and not China the end result is

somewhere between what one might expect of an MG had the company had both

names. Having seen it in the 'flesh' I was surprised how good the rear 3/4

view looked (especially view 12) as it's where so many designers run out of

inspiration, not unlike a performance Merc (which may on may not be a good

thing). Less so the front, which is pretty generic (indeed similar to the
new

Honda Accord) and has no trace at all of the MG grille which has always
been

the case previously.



PaulH.

_______________________________________________



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Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg]

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Sat Mar 26 23:32:46 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:32:46 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
	<SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl>
	<73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <845467.15370.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Why not Sat Nav?  I can answer that question.  I hate Sat Navs in 
every car too, along with LOTS of other unnecessary gadgets that make 
new cars too complex, expensive, and difficult to maintain.  Sat Navs 
in particular are subject to regular technological updates like cell 
phones.  Even if they never break down you may want to replace them 
periodically, and that's hard to do when it's part of the dashboard 
in the car.  That device should be a strictly optional accessory that 
can be installed or removed or moved from one car to another as 
easily as a cell phone (assuming someone thought they actually wanted 
one in the car).  I have a really nice rally computer that I use a 
lot, but I wouldn't build that into the dash either.

One of my favorite past times is to walk into a new car dealer and 
ask, "What car do you offer that has only the minimal legally 
required equipment to be allowed on the road"?  (Smart Car, 
maybe).  You might be looking for a 2-wheel drive Jeep or a bottom of 
the line compact pick up truck with rubber floor mats and manual 
window winders (if there was such a thing any more).  I will park my 
MGA in front of the showroom window, point to it and ask, "How close 
can you get to that in a new model"?  Then wait while all the sales 
people roll on the floor laughing.

The thing that impressed me most about the MG6 report was that the 
reporter spent most of the page space chatting about exterior 
styling, interior styling, accessories (".. even in its basic form, 
its a very loaded car"), Sat Nav, cruise control, entertainment 
system, on-board computer, and "rear parking aid" (which it probably 
needs when you can't see low down out the back window), electrically 
adjusted and heated seats, boot space, rear bumper, and a maximim 
speed limiter.  It was already on to page 4 of 4 talking about key 
fob and push to start before it finally has a half page about how it 
drives. Then it promptly gets back to talking about mass market, 
dulled down, not quite up to MG expectations.  I was surprised they 
didn't mention how many air bags or cup holders, or the fact that it 
will likely never get to the North American market, but then I 
suppose the article wasn't written for us yanks.

Barney (stuck inthe 50's) Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude (and nothing that is not required to make 
it go down the road).
http://MGAguru.com


At 11:39 AM 3/27/2011 +1000, Murray Arundell wrote:
>Why is that Mike? I love Sat-navs when traveling in unfamiliar territory.
>....


>On 27/03/2011, at 11:05 AM, Mike Eldred wrote:
> >....
> > I do hate to see those damn Sat Navs in every new car, though.
> >....


> >> From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
> >> Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:17:15 +0000
> >> Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
> >>
> >> http://www.mg-rover.org/articles/1/1097/mg6_road_test_review/index.htm?
> >>....

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Sun Mar 27 07:10:03 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:10:03 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
	<SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <52EB4EDDE76F40368C802873BEAD80D9@paul>

Or 'Prat Nav' (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prat), as I call
them, given that so many people including professional drivers set them to
'shortest' route then end up getting stuck in flooded stream crossings,
lorries stuck in narrow lanes, and at least one person getting fined for
driving the wrong way up a one-way street because that is what the system told
them to do.
  ----- Original Message -----
  I do hate to see those damn Sat Navs in every new car, though.

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Sun Mar 27 07:34:41 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:34:41 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] Sat Nav/GPS rant, was MG6 Review
Message-ID: <1fff1.4e1f57cb.3ac0a501@aol.com>

That's hilarious.
 
We went on a trip to the Rhone last Fall and for the first time used a GPS. 
 I figure we saved a total of about a day we'd have spent trying to find 
our way  through some large towns etc., so it was very helpful, and I bought 
one after I  got home.  It also has a pretty good capability to indicate 
speed, so I use  it in my Jamaican bodied MGA because I haven't got around to 
figuring out why my  electronic speedo insists on ignoring signals from the 
electronic sender in the  T5 trans attached to the 3.4 engine in that car.
 
But I've also noted that it doesn't always use the best and fastest route  
and it insists that a street near my house is continuous even though it has  
never connected where it indicates - the GPS tells you to turn up a street 
that  doesn't exist.
 
Like most modern aids, these things have to be used with a bit of common  
sense, coupled with an ability to read a map, and shouldn't be relied upon as 
 your sole method of navigation.
 
If you don't think that aids like this derogate from learning necessary  
skills, hand a cashier $4.21 some time when you are buying something that 
costs  $3.96 and watch them waiting until their electronic cash register tells 
them how  much to give you back - simple arithmetic and the idea that you'd 
prefer to have  a quarter in your pocket to a handful of small change just 
doesn't seem to occur  to them.  Most of them just look at you as if you are 
the weird one for  giving them odd change.
 
Bill
 
In a message dated 26/03/2011 10:05:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
redscirocco at hotmail.com writes:

We  actually
have a road in my town with a sign that says "STOP! Your GPS is  WRONG!  
Road
closed in winter!" Yet, every couple of weeks, some  half-wit in an SUV 
with a
GPS has to be towed out of there  anyway.

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Sun Mar 27 07:42:28 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:42:28 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>

Agreed, Barney.
 
In Europe all the rental cars come with sat nav but they charge you an  
extra daily charge to enable it!  When you buy a new car, the systems can  cost 
$1500.  They perform the same function as the Garmin unit I bought for  
less than $300 that has lifetime free updates and that you carry with you into  
whichever car you are using.  Factor supplied sat nav makes zero sense as a 
 new car option to me.
 
Bill
 
In a message dated 26/03/2011 11:33:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
barneymg at mgaguru.com writes:

Sat Navs  
in particular are subject to regular technological updates like cell  
phones.  Even if they never break down you may want to replace them  
periodically, and that's hard to do when it's part of the dashboard 
in  the car.

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Sun Mar 27 08:50:21 2011
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:50:21 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>

I've had numerous cars with Sat Nav.  Are the systems perfect?  No.  On the
other hand I have never yet come across a map that was 100% perfect either.
As far as costs go, the factory units are spendy, but often coupled with
things like a back up camera which makes the price somewhat more tolerable.
Again on the other side of the coin, I have never seen or heard of a car
with factory nav being broken into and the nav unit stolen.  Leaving a
portable (or even just the mount) in sight is like putting a big red
blinking sign on top of the car that says BREAK INTO ME!  If you factor in
the cost of TWO portable units (the first one that gets stolen + a
replacement) and the cost of the theft repair you are very close to what the
factory unit costs.

>>given that so many people including professional drivers set them to
'shortest' route then end up getting stuck in flooded stream crossings,
lorries stuck in narrow lanes, and at least one person >>getting fined for
driving the wrong way up a one-way street because that is what the system
told them to do.
Please tell me the brand of map that will prevent these same idiots from
turning down the wrong way on a one way street, getting stuck in a flooded
stream crossing, or getting stuck in a lane too narrow.  I have never seen a
map like this and would love to own one.

Also don't forget the reason these units are in the cars.  People want
them.  Just because you don't doesn't mean that lots of people do.


On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 7:42 AM, <WSpohn4 at aol.com> wrote:

> Agreed, Barney.
>
> In Europe all the rental cars come with sat nav but they charge you an
> extra daily charge to enable it!  When you buy a new car, the systems can
>  cost
> $1500.  They perform the same function as the Garmin unit I bought for
> less than $300 that has lifetime free updates and that you carry with you
> into
> whichever car you are using.  Factor supplied sat nav makes zero sense as a
>  new car option to me.
>
> Bill
>
> In a message dated 26/03/2011 11:33:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> barneymg at mgaguru.com writes:
>
> Sat Navs
> in particular are subject to regular technological updates like cell
> phones.  Even if they never break down you may want to replace them
> periodically, and that's hard to do when it's part of the dashboard
> in  the car.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From dcouncill at msubillings.edu  Sun Mar 27 09:56:06 2011
From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:56:06 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] Sat Nav/GPS rant, was MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <1fff1.4e1f57cb.3ac0a501@aol.com>
References: <1fff1.4e1f57cb.3ac0a501@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA014442F3@BILEXMB1.msubillings.edu>

I bought a portable Delorme model, primarily for hiking and backpacking, but
haven't used it much. Its limited battery life plus small viewing window still
do not make it a viable replacement for a plain old paper map and compass. But
it does come in handy when I don't have a map like my trip to Las Vegas last
month for a convention. The rental car company didn't give me the limited area
map and I needed to find the highway route to Grapevine Canyon - my portable
gps proved its worth on that trip. Still a handy survival tool, much like the
compass I usually also have.


David Councill
67 BGT
72 B
64 B

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of WSpohn4 at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:35 AM
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Sat Nav/GPS rant, was MG6 Review

That's hilarious.

We went on a trip to the Rhone last Fall and for the first time used a GPS.
 I figure we saved a total of about a day we'd have spent trying to find our
way  through some large towns etc., so it was very helpful, and I bought one
after I  got home.  It also has a pretty good capability to indicate speed, so
I use  it in my Jamaican bodied MGA because I haven't got around to figuring
out why my  electronic speedo insists on ignoring signals from the electronic
sender in the  T5 trans attached to the 3.4 engine in that car.

But I've also noted that it doesn't always use the best and fastest route and
it insists that a street near my house is continuous even though it has never
connected where it indicates - the GPS tells you to turn up a street that
doesn't exist.

Like most modern aids, these things have to be used with a bit of common
sense, coupled with an ability to read a map, and shouldn't be relied upon as
your sole method of navigation.

If you don't think that aids like this derogate from learning necessary
skills, hand a cashier $4.21 some time when you are buying something that
costs  $3.96 and watch them waiting until their electronic cash register tells
them how  much to give you back - simple arithmetic and the idea that you'd
prefer to have  a quarter in your pocket to a handful of small change just
doesn't seem to occur  to them.  Most of them just look at you as if you are
the weird one for  giving them odd change.

Bill

From awhitema at panix.com  Sun Mar 27 12:47:49 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 12:47:49 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
Message-ID: <8C8E827C-0C0F-484C-8470-A4FDA2D1F471@panix.com>

The car never warms up.

When I put this new-to-me motor in my car, I didn't swap the stat.  Mistake.

It's been said before and I was a believer before this, but you really really
do not want or need those 160 degree thermostats.  Not only do they not help
in the summer, they are downright unpleasant in early spring.

Despite the (lack of) heat, that was a fun 50 miles.  Now I just need some of
those round tuits, so I can swap this thermostat with something more
appropriate.

--
Aaron

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 27 13:38:20 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Twin Cam article in Motor Klassik
Message-ID: <689125.71828.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

The April issue of the German car magazine Motor
Klassik has a nice article about the MGA twin cam,
for those able to locate a copy.  They discuss
the differences between the 1500, Twin Cam and
MkII.

David Breneman         david_breneman at yahoo.com

From barrie at look.ca  Sun Mar 27 07:07:26 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 10:07:26 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
	<SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl>
	<73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <E1Q3wxX-0003F5-Mp@iota.look.ca>

I always have difficulty with comfort for "re-emergence" of past 
marques.    The current "MG" designers, owners, engineers and such 
have had as much contact with things real MG as I have - and thus 
cannot claim to be a "successor".   The thought of Chinese MGs does 
not sit well and there can be no way the breed lives.  Cecil Kimber 
must be rotating like a generator in his grave!!



At 09:39 PM 3/26/2011, Murray Arundell wrote:
>Why is that Mike? I love Sat-navs when traveling in unfamiliar territory.
>
>Murray Arundell
>Brisbane Australia
>
>On 27/03/2011, at 11:05 AM, Mike Eldred wrote:
>
> > Interesting - thanks for the link.  I wish they could have provided a few
>more
> > shots of the dash and instruments, though.  ;)
> >
> > I wonder if we'll ever see an MG in the U.S. again?
> >
> > I do hate to see those damn Sat Navs in every new car, though.
> >
> > Mike Eldred
> > Wilmington, VT
> >
> >
> >> From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
> >> To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@autox.team.net
> >> Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:17:15 +0000
> >> Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
> >>
> >> http://www.mg-rover.org/articles/1/1097/mg6_road_test_review/index.htm?
> >>
> >> I have been expecting that because SAIC can't use the Rover name the MG6
>is
> >> really going to be more like a Rover than an MG, as MG saloons have always
> >> been performance versions of the Rover variant. This review does seem to
> >> confirm that, although because a number of aspects of the design
> > particularly
> >> the handling have been done at Longbridge and not China the end result is
> >> somewhere between what one might expect of an MG had the company had both
> >> names. Having seen it in the 'flesh' I was surprised how good the rear 3/4
> >> view looked (especially view 12) as it's where so many designers run out
>of
> >> inspiration, not unlike a performance Merc (which may on may not be a good
> >> thing). Less so the front, which is pretty generic (indeed similar to the
> > new
> >> Honda Accord) and has no trace at all of the MG grille which has always
> > been
> >> the case previously.
> >>
> >> PaulH.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Mgs at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >> Unsubscribe:
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Murray G. Arundell
>Managing Director
>GHS Pty Ltd
>Glaziers Hardware Supplies
>Brisbane, Australia
>Phone:  +617 3277 1255
>Fax:      +617 3875 1256
>Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie Robinson

705-721-9060 (Canada)
MGB GT V8
Aston Martin DB 2/4 MkII under restoratrion
www.AMFClub.com
www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm            TRY 
www.britcot.com - a unique web site for car goodies

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 27 13:53:36 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:53:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <845467.15370.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <116233.88718.qm@web112106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 3/26/11, Barney Gaylord <barneymg at mgaguru.com> wrote:

> That
device should be a strictly optional accessory that can
> be installed or
removed or moved from one car to another as
> easily as a cell phone (assuming
someone thought they
> actually wanted one in the car). 

However, if that
kind of device is stolen, your insurance
company won't pay for it.  I ran into
this years ago when
I left my car unlocked and someone took my radar detector.
The insurance company told me that they do not cover any
device which draws
power from the car and does not install
in a mount provided by the
manufacturer specifically for
that device.

I have no problem navigating with
a map, but a GPS, which
lets you keep your eyes on the road, and otherwise
highlights what is important on the map at that moment,
is in my opinion far
safer because it doesn't divide
your attention as much.

That said, I was
wrather disappointed a couple weeks ago
when the "Zorro GPS" software I'd
installed on my iPhone
took me down a dirt road and to the edge of a pit clay
quarry outside Berod (in Germany) then said "In 200 Meter,
links fahren."
It's a shame my Fiesta rental car didn't
have the hover option.  But I have
found built-in GPS
units to be more accurate than portable devices, because
they have a better idea exactly what the car is doing at
any given time.

My
opinion of GPS is much like that of air conditioning.
I'd never have paid
extra for AC until I bought a car with
it in 1988.  Now I'd really have to
think twice about
buying one without.

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sun Mar 27 17:49:36 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:49:36 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <1702D731-F1D9-49C8-A721-C90566882D1E@ghs.com.au>

Group,

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it is my motto...... Used to be like  
Barney "Stuck in the 50's" but while I still love my SA,TC &B (& MGF  
for that matter) there is no doubt that modern cars c/w with all their  
stuff which many of us rage against work extremely well in today's  
motoring environment. Would I want to commute in my SA or TC?   
Absolutely not..... the thought fills me with dread.  Would I want to  
take either my or my wife's Mercedes on a three week tour of the  
countryside sticking to back roads and lane ways?  Also absolutely  
not....

I also use a GPS in all my MGs when I'm on these tours.  I spend ages  
potting routes on my Mac using a variety of mapping software (which  
because they are updated regularly are WAY more up to date than any  
conventional map) and conventional mapping.  The files are then  
downloaded into my Garmin Zumo and can be called up at any time when  
we're touring.  If we chose to deviate from the route we simply use  
the conventional maps until we chose to return to the digitals we have  
on the GPS.  As someone else on the list said, having the GPS allows  
us to wonder along a pre-chosen route without the need for someone to  
have their nose buried in a map.

The GPS mapping is also brilliant when heading out of a group tour (or  
has our American friends call it - Caravanning).  Plot the route you  
want to follow, down to the fuel and food stops if you chose then  
electronically distribute it to those joining you so that you're all  
on the same page..... or if you do managed to screw it up, together at  
the same dead end.

Technology is not a bad thing guys, its how its utilized that is the  
key.  Technology is not necessarily about dumbing down the populace,  
although this will occur naturally to a large percentage of the  
population technology or not..... Technology utilized as and adjunct  
to previously acquired skills can be a very handy thing indeed......

Murray Arundell
Brisbane Australia

From ericemarkley at bellsouth.net  Sun Mar 27 19:04:59 2011
From: ericemarkley at bellsouth.net (Eric Markley)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:04:59 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MGA
Message-ID: <DFEKKHDEPKCIEOFDJAEFMEDCCHAA.ericemarkley@bellsouth.net>

List,

Tried to send pictures to the web site that Pete listed but no success. I
then sent them to Pete directly. Hope he can post them for the list to see.
Willing to send to anyone else to post for the list to review.

Eric

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 27 19:32:35 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <1702D731-F1D9-49C8-A721-C90566882D1E@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <850588.34748.qm@web112104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Sun, 3/27/11, Murray Arundell <arundell at ghs.com.au> wrote:

> The GPS
mapping is also brilliant when heading out of a
> group tour (or  
> has our
American friends call it - Caravanning). 


Is that what we Americans call it?
That's news to me.
I thought caravans involved camels somehow.

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Sun Mar 27 19:41:53 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:41:53 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <850588.34748.qm@web112104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <850588.34748.qm@web112104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01523950-3E4B-43FF-B158-FEDE7073D3AE@ghs.com.au>

Its a term I've seen pop up from time to time, and the first time I  
heard it I had no idea what it meant....... But then I suspect most  
Americans have little idea of what us Australians are talking about  
either....

Murray Arundell

From ddarby at centurytel.net  Sun Mar 27 21:33:53 2011
From: ddarby at centurytel.net (David F. Darby)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:33:53 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <01523950-3E4B-43FF-B158-FEDE7073D3AE@ghs.com.au>
References: <850588.34748.qm@web112104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<01523950-3E4B-43FF-B158-FEDE7073D3AE@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <B351B156F97543ECB494809F449BF643@YOURF3E40984A8>

Seems like most Americans call it "RV-ing". I've always heard "caravanning"
from British and Irish speakers.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Murray Arundell
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 9:42 PM
To: David Breneman
Cc: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review

Its a term I've seen pop up from time to time, and the first time I  
heard it I had no idea what it meant....... But then I suspect most  
Americans have little idea of what us Australians are talking about  
either....

Murray Arundell

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar 28 00:58:47 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:58:47 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
References: <8C8E827C-0C0F-484C-8470-A4FDA2D1F471@panix.com>
Message-ID: <51CD8BFC05DE412BBCB38B0D7B2EA957@paul>

160 and 180 are about 1/4" apart on the temp gauge.  If your gauge never or 
barely got off the end-stop then the stat that is in is faulty, pure and 
simple.  I agree that changing to a 'summer' stat is pointless, in most MGBs 
the stat will be fully open anyway regardless of its value.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
> The car never warms up.
>
> When I put this new-to-me motor in my car, I didn't swap the stat. 
> Mistake.
>
> It's been said before and I was a believer before this, but you really 
> really
> do not want or need those 160 degree thermostats.  Not only do they not 
> help
> in the summer, they are downright unpleasant in early spring.

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar 28 00:52:09 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:52:09 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>

You miss the point.  It's because the sat nav told them to turn that they 
did, regardless of the fact that there was clearly a No Entry sign staring 
them in the face.  Even worse is using 'The sat nav told me to turn' as a 
defence!  'Engage sat nav, disengage brain'.

----- Original Message ----- 
> Please tell me the brand of map that will prevent these same idiots from
> turning down the wrong way on a one way street 

From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Mar 28 01:04:33 2011
From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:04:33 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul><SNT124-W4D19DE2663AF4CC18F38FB7BB0@phx.gbl><73484DD0-137D-483D-8BAD-A009C92840DA@ghs.com.au>
	<E1Q3wxX-0003F5-Mp@iota.look.ca>
Message-ID: <A747AFB70FA041E79F5583C2510F16B2@paul>

Did you mean to say '... have *NOT* had as much contact'?  In either case 
the designers of the suspension and handling of the UK version of the MG6 
are based at Longbridge and many will have been involved with the production 
of the earlier Z-series cars under MG Rover, which were acknowledged as 
deserving of the MG badge, even though probably none of them had been 
involved with Abingdon.  The MG6 shouldn't be written off just yet.

PaulH.

----- Original Message ----- 
>I always have difficulty with comfort for "re-emergence" of past marques. 
>The current "MG" designers, owners, engineers and such have had as much 
>contact with things real MG as I have - and thus cannot claim to be a 
>"successor". 

From ccrobins at ktc.com  Mon Mar 28 07:22:29 2011
From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:22:29 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
References: <D0AA847E20AD41A0B598E848A5AE1B73@paul>
Message-ID: <4D9099A5.9050002@ktc.com>

I'm not inspired.  --  CR

On 3/20/2011 9:17 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
> http://www.mg-rover.org/articles/1/1097/mg6_road_test_review/index.htm?
>
> I have been expecting that because SAIC can't use the Rover name the MG6 is
> really going to be more like a Rover than an MG, as MG saloons have always
> been performance versions of the Rover variant.  This review does seem to
> confirm that, although because a number of aspects of the design particularly
> the handling have been done at Longbridge and not China the end result is
> somewhere between what one might expect of an MG had the company had both
> names.  Having seen it in the 'flesh' I was surprised how good the rear 3/4
> view looked (especially view 12) as it's where so many designers run out of
> inspiration, not unlike a performance Merc (which may on may not be a good
> thing).  Less so the front, which is pretty generic (indeed similar to the new
> Honda Accord) and has no trace at all of the MG grille which has always been
> the case previously.
>
> PaulH.
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ccrobins at ktc.com

From geoff at 1956mga.com  Mon Mar 28 08:51:33 2011
From: geoff at 1956mga.com (Geoff)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:51:33 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>

Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly.  It's a tool, use it wrong
and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people getting
lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a compass.
Shall we complain about that technology too?   Don't blame the tool, blame
the idiot using it.

I use my GPS all the time.  I travel a bit for work, and arriving in a new
town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a restaurant, and
click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which can then
give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant.  It's brilliant.
For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the restaurant
reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder.  Then, once you've
picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get the
address, then pull out the paper map.  Good luck with the rerouting if you
miss an exit or there is construction.  Make sure you pull over before you
use the map.

I'll be enjoying my dinner before you get there, and be back to the hotel in
time to get a goods night rest.

I live in Los Angeles, so I'll mention too that my GPS (built into my
smart-phone) also offers real time traffic information.  I don't use it
often, as I bicycle a short distance to work most days, but it does help
when I need it.   Never seen a paper map with that.

I will agree with Barney (? I think that was who said it) that I think it's
a shame that it's tough to get a new car without GPS/Sat nav built in, as
most I've seen built into cars are far behind the technology I carry in my
pocket.  I'd hate to pay more (whether as an option, or just built into the
price) for a system that is technologically inferior to the one I carry in
my phone.  But I don't buy new cars often, and the last one I did was very
inexpensive, so hopefully it'll be a few years before I have to do that.

Geoff

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Paul Hunt <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>wrote:

> You miss the point.  It's because the sat nav told them to turn that they
> did, regardless of the fact that there was clearly a No Entry sign staring
> them in the face.  Even worse is using 'The sat nav told me to turn' as a
> defence!  'Engage sat nav, disengage brain'.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> Please tell me the brand of map that will prevent these same idiots from
>> turning down the wrong way on a one way street
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/geoff at 1956mga.com

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Mon Mar 28 09:14:29 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:14:29 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <30494.2b933d32.3ac20de5@aol.com>

Many manufacturers now use a navigation system as part of the standard  
package so you pay for it whether or not you ever use it.  It isn't  portable, 
it usually isn't as up to date as the hand held units and you sure  can't 
take it with you when you go off walking through a strange area.  I  object to 
being forced to buy what should be options, some of which I will never  
use.  Reminds me of a successful businessman that once took me to lunch in  a 
Cadillac he's owned for 6 months.  He didn't have a clue what all the  
blinking lights and features of the car were, didn't want and would never use  
them, but was proud that it came with all that useless crap.  Go  figure.
 
Bill
 
 
In a message dated 3/28/2011 8:57:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
geoff at 1956mga.com writes:

I will  agree with Barney (? I think that was who said it) that I think it's
a  shame that it's tough to get a new car without GPS/Sat nav built in,  as
most I've seen built into cars are far behind the technology I carry in  my
pocket.  I'd hate to pay more (whether as an option, or just built  into the
price) for a system that is technologically inferior to the one I  carry in
my phone.  But I don't buy new cars often, and the last one I  did was very
inexpensive, so hopefully it'll be a few years before I have  to do that.

From barrie at look.ca  Mon Mar 28 09:16:25 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:16:25 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.c om>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>

What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems.   I do not 
need a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to have to pay for 
it.  Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not 
have to buy one in my new car.

Hey!  whatever happened to cigarette lighters ?   Used to use them to 
burn leeches off when in Malaya!

At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
>Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly.  It's a tool, use it wrong
>and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people getting
>lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a compass.
>Shall we complain about that technology too?   Don't blame the tool, blame
>the idiot using it.
>
>I use my GPS all the time.  I travel a bit for work, and arriving in a new
>town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a restaurant, and
>click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which can then
>give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant.  It's brilliant.
>For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the restaurant
>reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder.  Then, once you've
>picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get the
>address, then pull out the paper map.  Good luck with the rerouting if you
>miss an exit or there is construction.  Make sure you pull over before you
>use the map.

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705--721-9060 

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 09:23:33 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:23:33 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <B351B156F97543ECB494809F449BF643@YOURF3E40984A8>
References: <850588.34748.qm@web112104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<01523950-3E4B-43FF-B158-FEDE7073D3AE@ghs.com.au>
	<B351B156F97543ECB494809F449BF643@YOURF3E40984A8>
Message-ID: <4D90B605.6040403@gmail.com>

On 3/27/2011 11:33 PM, David F. Darby wrote:
> Seems like most Americans call it "RV-ing". I've always heard "caravanning"
> from British and Irish speakers.
We always called it "taking a vacation."

-Rocky Frisco
--

From mgbob at juno.com  Mon Mar 28 09:26:14 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:26:14 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <20110328.122614.13118.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>

 Cigarette lighters---they were handy even for those who did not smoke; a
convenient tool for fuzing shoelaces when aglets broke off. At one time called
cigarette lighters, then cigar lighters, then they became power outlets w/o
the lighter.  Is there a different name today for what was once an ash
tray?Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca>
To: Geoff <geoff at 1956mga.com>,Paul Hunt <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review

Hey!  whatever happened to cigarette lighters ?   Used to use them to
burn leeches off when in Malaya!

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar 28 09:31:53 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:31:53 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <20110328.122614.13118.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20110328.122614.13118.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <4D90B7F9.5030403@justbrits.com>

<< Is there a different name today for what was once an ash tray? >>

Sure, Bob.

Missing !!

From dcouncill at msubillings.edu  Mon Mar 28 09:37:37 2011
From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:37:37 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <20110328.122614.13118.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20110328.122614.13118.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA01444603@BILEXMB1.msubillings.edu>

When I was working in Colombia about 20 years ago, one of the Colombians
working on the project referred to the ash tray in English as an "ash hole"
until we corrected him.

David Councill
64 B
67 BGT
72 B

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf
Of mgbob at juno.com
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 10:26 AM
To: barrie at look.ca
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review

 Cigarette lighters---they were handy even for those who did not smoke; a
convenient tool for fuzing shoelaces when aglets broke off. At one time called
cigarette lighters, then cigar lighters, then they became power outlets w/o
the lighter.  Is there a different name today for what was once an ash
tray?Bob

From geoff at 1956mga.com  Mon Mar 28 09:58:57 2011
From: geoff at 1956mga.com (Geoff)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:58:57 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Bk5-v=PhEssMi0tp_4RSktdzNvanoYQAOTK-k@mail.gmail.com>

So don't buy it.  If it's that objectionable, buy a car from a manufacture
that still makes it an option.   it's not like it's federally mandated.
There are still plenty of cars out there where it's an option.

Geoff

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Barrie Robinson <barrie at look.ca> wrote:

>
> What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems.   I do not need
> a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to *have* to pay for it.
> Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not *have* to
> buy one in my new *car*.
>
> Hey!  whatever happened to cigarette lighters ?   Used to use them to burn
> leeches off when in Malaya!
>
>
> At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
>
> Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly.  It's a tool, use it wrong
> and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people getting
> lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a compass.
> Shall we complain about that technology too?   Don't blame the tool, blame
> the idiot using it.
>
> I use my GPS all the time.  I travel a bit for work, and arriving in a new
> town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a restaurant, and
> click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which can then
> give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant.  It's brilliant.
> For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the restaurant
> reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder.  Then, once you've
> picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get the
> address, then pull out the paper map.  Good luck with the rerouting if you
> miss an exit or there is construction.  Make sure you pull over before you
> use the map.
>
>  Regards
>
> Barrie
> barrie at look.ca
> 705--721-9060

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 28 10:17:18 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:17:18 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>

Barrie, Bill,

That's the point, exactly.  I let my little rant get in the way of it.

I don't have any objection to the use of GPS/Sat Nav, or the people who use
them - that's their prerogative.  I don't want or need one, and for that
reason, I hate to see them become "standard equipment" that I have to pay for.

I am also concerned about how they will change driving and drivers in the
future, and I think the trend toward including them as standard equipment will
encourage people to depend on them.

-Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT


> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:16:25 -0400
> To: geoff at 1956mga.com; paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
> From: barrie at look.ca
> CC: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
>
> What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems. I do not
> need a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to have to pay for
> it. Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not
> have to buy one in my new car.
>
> Hey! whatever happened to cigarette lighters ? Used to use them to
> burn leeches off when in Malaya!
>
> At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
> >Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly. It's a tool, use it wrong
> >and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people getting
> >lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a compass.
> >Shall we complain about that technology too? Don't blame the tool, blame
> >the idiot using it.
> >
> >I use my GPS all the time. I travel a bit for work, and arriving in a new
> >town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a restaurant, and
> >click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which can then
> >give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant. It's brilliant.
> >For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the restaurant
> >reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder. Then, once you've
> >picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get the
> >address, then pull out the paper map. Good luck with the rerouting if you
> >miss an exit or there is construction. Make sure you pull over before you
> >use the map.
>
> Regards
>
> Barrie
> barrie at look.ca
> 705--721-9060
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 10:24:43 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:24:43 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Bk5-v=PhEssMi0tp_4RSktdzNvanoYQAOTK-k@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<AANLkTi=Bk5-v=PhEssMi0tp_4RSktdzNvanoYQAOTK-k@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B2C66DC3-BD5E-45B9-B1F6-41222C14716A@gmail.com>

On Mar 28, 2011, at 11:58 AM, Geoff wrote:

> So don't buy it.  If it's that objectionable, buy a car from a manufacture
> that still makes it an option.   it's not like it's federally mandated.

Don't give the gov'ment ideas... 


> There are still plenty of cars out there where it's an option.
> 
> Geoff

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 10:56:42 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Bk5-v=PhEssMi0tp_4RSktdzNvanoYQAOTK-k@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<AANLkTi=Bk5-v=PhEssMi0tp_4RSktdzNvanoYQAOTK-k@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D90CBDA.3090000@gmail.com>

On 3/28/2011 11:58 AM, Geoff wrote:
> So don't buy it.  If it's that objectionable, buy a car from a manufacture
> that still makes it an option.   it's not like it's federally mandated.
> There are still plenty of cars out there where it's an option.
Cover it with duct tape?

-Rocky Frisco
--

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Mon Mar 28 11:37:08 2011
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:37:08 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000601cbed77$255af440$7010dcc0$@com>

I hadn't thought of it until just now, but I wonder if they are becoming
standard equipment for data collection. I think all the new cars (over here
at least) keep a number of data points that can be retrieved after an
accident (speed, throttle position, etc.) and they may be wanting to add
position data.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Mike Eldred
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 1:17 PM
To: barrie at look.ca
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review

Barrie, Bill,

That's the point, exactly.  I let my little rant get in the way of it.

I don't have any objection to the use of GPS/Sat Nav, or the people who use
them - that's their prerogative.  I don't want or need one, and for that
reason, I hate to see them become "standard equipment" that I have to pay
for.

I am also concerned about how they will change driving and drivers in the
future, and I think the trend toward including them as standard equipment
will
encourage people to depend on them.

-Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT


> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:16:25 -0400
> To: geoff at 1956mga.com; paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
> From: barrie at look.ca
> CC: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
>
> What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems. I do not
> need a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to have to pay for
> it. Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not
> have to buy one in my new car.
>
> Hey! whatever happened to cigarette lighters ? Used to use them to
> burn leeches off when in Malaya!
>
> At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
> >Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly. It's a tool, use it wrong
> >and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people
getting
> >lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a compass.
> >Shall we complain about that technology too? Don't blame the tool, blame
> >the idiot using it.
> >
> >I use my GPS all the time. I travel a bit for work, and arriving in a new
> >town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a restaurant, and
> >click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which can
then
> >give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant. It's brilliant.
> >For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the restaurant
> >reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder. Then, once you've
> >picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get the
> >address, then pull out the paper map. Good luck with the rerouting if you
> >miss an exit or there is construction. Make sure you pull over before you
> >use the map.
>
> Regards
>
> Barrie
> barrie at look.ca
> 705--721-9060
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/steve at coastaldatasystems.com

From steve at shoyer.com  Mon Mar 28 14:14:18 2011
From: steve at shoyer.com (Steve Shoyer)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:14:18 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <20110328.122614.13118.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20110328.122614.13118.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <E989C1D3BECA4AA78C09F2C5EAB0E0C4@SteveHPlaptop>

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review

> ...At one time called cigarette lighters, then cigar lighters, then they
became power outlets w/o the lighter.  Is there a different name today for
what was once an ash tray?

In my Acura MDX, there was a device labeled "Not An Ashtray" which was
basically an ask tray with a fabric liner.  People referred to them as the
Not An Ashtray.  Silly, but descriptive.

--Steve

From barrie at look.ca  Mon Mar 28 11:24:09 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:24:09 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E1Q4JpX-0003Mv-AS@epsilon.look.ca>

I think snow tyres comes in there too.  I have friends who spend a 
fortune on rims & snow tyres.  They never go out in the snow and 
rumble around on perfectly clear roads in winter.  M'thinks the tyre 
companies generate ridiculous wants for them.   Mind you if you are a 
doctor (do they still make house calls?), fireman (definitely make 
house calls!), or one just has to go - then yes!



At 01:17 PM 3/28/2011, Mike Eldred wrote:
>Barrie, Bill,
>
>That's the point, exactly.  I let my little rant get in the way of it.
>
>I don't have any objection to the use of GPS/Sat Nav, or the people 
>who use them - that's their prerogative.  I don't want or need one, 
>and for that reason, I hate to see them become "standard equipment" 
>that I have to pay for.
>
>I am also concerned about how they will change driving and drivers 
>in the future, and I think the trend toward including them as 
>standard equipment will encourage people to depend on them.
>
>-Mike Eldred
>Wilmington, VT
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:16:25 -0400
> > To: geoff at 1956mga.com; paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
> > From: barrie at look.ca
> > CC: mgs at autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
> >
> > What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems. I do not
> > need a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to have to pay for
> > it. Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not
> > have to buy one in my new car.
> >
> > Hey! whatever happened to cigarette lighters ? Used to use them to
> > burn leeches off when in Malaya!
> >
> > At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
> > >Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly. It's a tool, use it wrong
> > >and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people getting
> > >lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a compass.
> > >Shall we complain about that technology too? Don't blame the tool, blame
> > >the idiot using it.
> > >
> > >I use my GPS all the time. I travel a bit for work, and arriving in a new
> > >town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a restaurant, and
> > >click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which can then
> > >give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant. It's brilliant.
> > >For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the restaurant
> > >reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder. Then, once you've
> > >picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get the
> > >address, then pull out the paper map. Good luck with the rerouting if you
> > >miss an exit or there is construction. Make sure you pull over before you
> > >use the map.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Barrie
> > barrie at look.ca
> > 705--721-9060
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705--721-9060 

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Mon Mar 28 14:19:16 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:19:16 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <4360c.41b71ea4.3ac25554@aol.com>

In my Solstice, you get a cup holder - unless you order the optional  
smokers kit which fits in the same place.  Don't know what you are supposed  to 
do if you smoke AND drink.....
 
Bill
 
 
In a message dated 3/28/2011 2:15:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
steve at shoyer.com writes:

In my  Acura MDX, there was a device labeled "Not An Ashtray" which was
basically  an ask tray with a fabric liner.  People referred to them as the
Not  An Ashtray.  Silly, but  descriptive.

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 28 14:24:10 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <4360c.41b71ea4.3ac25554@aol.com>
References: <4360c.41b71ea4.3ac25554@aol.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W40D81E224F3D6FF121B8CDB7BA0@phx.gbl>

<<<Don't know what you are supposed to
do if you smoke AND drink.....>>>

Pull over!

From ptrmgb at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 14:37:26 2011
From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:37:26 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <E1Q4JpX-0003Mv-AS@epsilon.look.ca>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
	<E1Q4JpX-0003Mv-AS@epsilon.look.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimLXpEucC+WNVFFvdFOTObg1VnNNCXLfjfGmgGo@mail.gmail.com>

My wife's mazda6 is pretty much undrivable in the winter without snows.

sent from droid
On Mar 28, 2011 4:18 PM, "Barrie Robinson" <barrie at look.ca> wrote:
> I think snow tyres comes in there too. I have friends who spend a
> fortune on rims & snow tyres. They never go out in the snow and
> rumble around on perfectly clear roads in winter. M'thinks the tyre
> companies generate ridiculous wants for them. Mind you if you are a
> doctor (do they still make house calls?), fireman (definitely make
> house calls!), or one just has to go - then yes!
>
>
>
> At 01:17 PM 3/28/2011, Mike Eldred wrote:
>>Barrie, Bill,
>>
>>That's the point, exactly. I let my little rant get in the way of it.
>>
>>I don't have any objection to the use of GPS/Sat Nav, or the people
>>who use them - that's their prerogative. I don't want or need one,
>>and for that reason, I hate to see them become "standard equipment"
>>that I have to pay for.
>>
>>I am also concerned about how they will change driving and drivers
>>in the future, and I think the trend toward including them as
>>standard equipment will encourage people to depend on them.
>>
>>-Mike Eldred
>>Wilmington, VT
>>
>>
>> > Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:16:25 -0400
>> > To: geoff at 1956mga.com; paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
>> > From: barrie at look.ca
>> > CC: mgs at autox.team.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
>> >
>> > What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems. I do not
>> > need a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to have to pay for
>> > it. Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not
>> > have to buy one in my new car.
>> >
>> > Hey! whatever happened to cigarette lighters ? Used to use them to
>> > burn leeches off when in Malaya!
>> >
>> > At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
>> > >Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly. It's a tool, use it
wrong
>> > >and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people
getting
>> > >lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a compass.
>> > >Shall we complain about that technology too? Don't blame the tool,
blame
>> > >the idiot using it.
>> > >
>> > >I use my GPS all the time. I travel a bit for work, and arriving in a
new
>> > >town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a restaurant,
and
>> > >click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which can
then
>> > >give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant. It's
brilliant.
>> > >For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the restaurant
>> > >reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder. Then, once
you've
>> > >picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get the
>> > >address, then pull out the paper map. Good luck with the rerouting if
you
>> > >miss an exit or there is construction. Make sure you pull over before
you
>> > >use the map.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Barrie
>> > barrie at look.ca
>> > 705--721-9060
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Mgs at autox.team.net
>> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> > Suggested annual donation $12.75
>> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> > Unsubscribe:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com
>
> Regards
>
> Barrie
> barrie at look.ca
> 705--721-9060
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Mon Mar 28 15:50:14 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:50:14 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>

This is a problem because....?  Who says conventional mapping is any  
more accurate.  Its my experience that conventional mapping can  
contain absolute howlers of mistakes..... I'd rather be in traffic  
surrounded by people listening to GPS directions than be surrounded by  
drivers trying to navigate solo while looking at a map lying on the  
passenger's seat..... From a Road Safey point of view its an absolute  
no brainer..... and given this GPS SHOULD be a standard fitting.  How  
often have we been carved up by some moron who clearly has no idea  
where he is or where he is going and out the corner of his eye spots  
the street or off ramp he needs.....

Murray Arundell
Brisbane Australia


> I am also concerned about how they will change driving and drivers  
> in the
> future, and I think the trend toward including them as standard  
> equipment will
> encourage people to depend on them.
>
> -Mike Eldred
> Wilmington, VT
>
>
>> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:16:25 -0400
>> To: geoff at 1956mga.com; paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
>> From: barrie at look.ca
>> CC: mgs at autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
>>
>> What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems. I do not
>> need a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to have to pay for
>> it. Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not
>> have to buy one in my new car.
>>
>> Hey! whatever happened to cigarette lighters ? Used to use them to
>> burn leeches off when in Malaya!
>>
>> At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
>>> Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly. It's a tool, use  
>>> it wrong
>>> and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people  
>>> getting
>>> lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a  
>>> compass.
>>> Shall we complain about that technology too? Don't blame the tool,  
>>> blame
>>> the idiot using it.
>>>
>>> I use my GPS all the time. I travel a bit for work, and arriving  
>>> in a new
>>> town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a  
>>> restaurant, and
>>> click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which  
>>> can then
>>> give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant. It's  
>>> brilliant.
>>> For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the  
>>> restaurant
>>> reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder. Then, once  
>>> you've
>>> picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get  
>>> the
>>> address, then pull out the paper map. Good luck with the rerouting  
>>> if you
>>> miss an exit or there is construction. Make sure you pull over  
>>> before you
>>> use the map.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Barrie
>> barrie at look.ca
>> 705--721-9060
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Mon Mar 28 15:51:31 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:51:31 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <000601cbed77$255af440$7010dcc0$@com>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
	<000601cbed77$255af440$7010dcc0$@com>
Message-ID: <557CBDD4-4D15-45BF-B569-52BD796AE43F@ghs.com.au>

Oh please..... Never assume Conspiracy, always assume its a Cock-up.

On 29/03/2011, at 4:37 AM, Stephen West-Fisher wrote:

> I hadn't thought of it until just now, but I wonder if they are  
> becoming
> standard equipment for data collection. I think all the new cars  
> (over here
> at least) keep a number of data points that can be retrieved after an
> accident (speed, throttle position, etc.) and they may be wanting to  
> add
> position data.
>
> --
> Stephen West-Fisher
> N4IK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net]  
> On
> Behalf Of Mike Eldred
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 1:17 PM
> To: barrie at look.ca
> Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
>
> Barrie, Bill,
>
> That's the point, exactly.  I let my little rant get in the way of it.
>
> I don't have any objection to the use of GPS/Sat Nav, or the people  
> who use
> them - that's their prerogative.  I don't want or need one, and for  
> that
> reason, I hate to see them become "standard equipment" that I have  
> to pay
> for.
>
> I am also concerned about how they will change driving and drivers  
> in the
> future, and I think the trend toward including them as standard  
> equipment
> will
> encourage people to depend on them.
>
> -Mike Eldred
> Wilmington, VT
>
>
>> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:16:25 -0400
>> To: geoff at 1956mga.com; paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
>> From: barrie at look.ca
>> CC: mgs at autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
>>
>> What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems. I do not
>> need a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to have to pay for
>> it. Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not
>> have to buy one in my new car.
>>
>> Hey! whatever happened to cigarette lighters ? Used to use them to
>> burn leeches off when in Malaya!
>>
>> At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
>>> Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly. It's a tool, use  
>>> it wrong
>>> and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people
> getting
>>> lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a  
>>> compass.
>>> Shall we complain about that technology too? Don't blame the tool,  
>>> blame
>>> the idiot using it.
>>>
>>> I use my GPS all the time. I travel a bit for work, and arriving  
>>> in a new
>>> town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a  
>>> restaurant, and
>>> click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which  
>>> can
> then
>>> give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant. It's  
>>> brilliant.
>>> For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the  
>>> restaurant
>>> reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder. Then, once  
>>> you've
>>> picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get  
>>> the
>>> address, then pull out the paper map. Good luck with the rerouting  
>>> if you
>>> miss an exit or there is construction. Make sure you pull over  
>>> before you
>>> use the map.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Barrie
>> barrie at look.ca
>> 705--721-9060
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Mgs at autox.team.net
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/steve at coastaldatasystems.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Mon Mar 28 15:58:31 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:58:31 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <964.10761a5c.3ac26c97@aol.com>

Neither a GPS nor a top end added price stereo should be standard fitment,  
they should be optional so you have the choice.  There are a lot of pretty  
crappy GPS units used for the standard unit in cars, and it sucks to be 
forced  to pay for a hunk of junk when you will just have to replace it with a 
decent  one, either installed or separate.
 
Give me safe lights and brakes and leave the extras to my discretion - it  
is not quite yet the care bear society where the government gets to dictate 
what  is good for everyone.
 
Bill
 
 
In a message dated 3/28/2011 3:50:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
arundell at ghs.com.au writes:

>From a  Road Safey point of view its an absolute  
no brainer..... and given  this GPS SHOULD be a standard fitting.  How  
often have we been  carved up by some moron who clearly has no idea  
where he is or where  he is going and out the corner of his eye spots  
the street or off  ramp he needs.....

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Mon Mar 28 16:06:03 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:06:03 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <964.10761a5c.3ac26c97@aol.com>
References: <964.10761a5c.3ac26c97@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3167653F-6FED-44F0-AD6E-A9692B1F77D5@ghs.com.au>

You're assuming of course that said lights and brakes are working....

Should we also make seat belts, airbags, intrusion bars and crumple  
zones optional as well...?

Murray

On 29/03/2011, at 8:58 AM, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote:

> Neither a GPS nor a top end added price stereo should be standard  
> fitment, they should be optional so you have the choice.  There are  
> a lot of pretty crappy GPS units used for the standard unit in cars,  
> and it sucks to be forced to pay for a hunk of junk when you will  
> just have to replace it with a decent one, either installed or  
> separate.
>
> Give me safe lights and brakes and leave the extras to my discretion  
> - it is not quite yet the care bear society where the government  
> gets to dictate what is good for everyone.
>
> Bill
>
> In a message dated 3/28/2011 3:50:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, arundell at ghs.com.au 
>  writes:
> From a Road Safey point of view its an absolute
> no brainer..... and given this GPS SHOULD be a standard fitting.  How
> often have we been carved up by some moron who clearly has no idea
> where he is or where he is going and out the corner of his eye spots
> the street or off ramp he needs.....

From WSpohn4 at aol.com  Mon Mar 28 16:08:23 2011
From: WSpohn4 at aol.com (WSpohn4 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:08:23 EDT
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <1076.370288be.3ac26ee7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2011 4:06:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
arundell at ghs.com.au writes:

You're  assuming of course that said lights and brakes are working.... 
Of course I am.



Should we also make seat belts, airbags, intrusion bars and crumple zones  
optional as well...?  

 
Now you are just being intentionally silly.  Give it a rest,  Murray.  Get 
back to me when governments legislate mandatory GPS fitment as  they do the 
other safety items.  I won't wait up to hear from you.
 
Bill

From awhitema at panix.com  Mon Mar 28 16:16:14 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:16:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <1076.370288be.3ac26ee7@aol.com>
References: <1076.370288be.3ac26ee7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.NEB.2.00.1103281913400.16316@panix1.panix.com>

On Mon, 28 Mar 2011, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote:

> Now you are just being intentionally silly.  Give it a rest,  Murray.  Get
> back to me when governments legislate mandatory GPS fitment as  they do the
> other safety items.  I won't wait up to hear from you.

GPS as a safety device is not in the plans as far as I know, but IIRC, 
within 2 years, backup cameras will be a mandatory item.  It "only" 
adds a few hundred dollers to the cost of every car.

Of course, with the horrendous rear visibility of modern cars, cameras
probably should be considered for mandatory requirements.

-- 
Aaron Whiteman
Pullman, Washington

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Mon Mar 28 16:30:03 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:30:03 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <alpine.NEB.2.00.1103281913400.16316@panix1.panix.com>
References: <1076.370288be.3ac26ee7@aol.com>
	<alpine.NEB.2.00.1103281913400.16316@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <BE6C4BB8-7118-4C87-BECD-5364974E49D6@ghs.com.au>

The reality is that cars are built to a price, to be sold for a  
profit.  Manufacturers will only put a feature in a car for one of two  
reasons:-

They are compelled to by legislation.
It will sell more cars.

If manufacturers are installing these devices without compulsion then  
its a no brainer that they are doing it due to public demand.  Those  
complaining about the added extra cost imposed upon them when they buy  
a new car and don't want such features are frankly displaying a lack  
of understanding of the cost of such items at the point of manufacture  
and the science behind upselling options.  Just because you ask for a  
factory GPS to be installed as an option and are charged $500-00 for  
it does not mean that the cost to the manufacturer is anything even  
remotely close to that figure.  The cost of pricing options has  
nothing whatsoever to do with the cost to the manufacturer but  
EVERYTHING to do with what the manufacturer thinks the customer will  
pay.  It would be my guess that MG/Ford/GM/VW etc are paying no more  
than $10.00 for the GPS hardware going into their vehicles.

Murray Arundell
Brisbane Australia

On 29/03/2011, at 9:16 AM, Aaron Whiteman wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Mar 2011, WSpohn4 at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Now you are just being intentionally silly.  Give it a rest,   
>> Murray.  Get
>> back to me when governments legislate mandatory GPS fitment as   
>> they do the
>> other safety items.  I won't wait up to hear from you.
>
> GPS as a safety device is not in the plans as far as I know, but  
> IIRC, within 2 years, backup cameras will be a mandatory item.  It  
> "only" adds a few hundred dollers to the cost of every car.
>
> Of course, with the horrendous rear visibility of modern cars, cameras
> probably should be considered for mandatory requirements.

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar 28 16:38:22 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:38:22 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

The choice isn't between listening to a GPS while driving and awkwardly
reading a map while driving.

It's between reading a map and comprehending the overall route, important
landmarks and critical junctions *before starting out*, as opposed to
blindly relying on real-time instructions from a GPS while otherwise being
entirely ignorant of the environment. In the latter case, say the unit craps
out, or runs to the end of its database and asks you to load a new CD, or
loses satellite lock in a canyon or downtown district -- you are suddenly
and completely at a loss.

While if you took the time to create a mental picture of the region and
understand the major road networks, you would generally know where you were
in the scheme of things.

I'm not saying a GPS nav system isn't a useful tool. But if everyone relies
on them utterly, we will wind up with a generation of drivers that never
actually knows where they are (in the sense of looking out the window and
recognizing landmarks), and moreover, doesn't even see why that might be
important. Then the North Koreans will blow up a geostationary satellite,
filling the orbit with space junk, and bring the whole system down, causing
immediate chaos on the roads  ;-)

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires

on 3/28/11 3:50 PM, Murray Arundell at arundell at ghs.com.au wrote:

> This is a problem because....?  Who says conventional mapping is any
> more accurate.  Its my experience that conventional mapping can
> contain absolute howlers of mistakes..... I'd rather be in traffic
> surrounded by people listening to GPS directions than be surrounded by
> drivers trying to navigate solo while looking at a map lying on the
> passenger's seat..... From a Road Safey point of view its an absolute
> no brainer..... and given this GPS SHOULD be a standard fitting.  How
> often have we been carved up by some moron who clearly has no idea
> where he is or where he is going and out the corner of his eye spots
> the street or off ramp he needs.....
> 
> Murray Arundell
> Brisbane Australia

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar 28 16:54:58 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:54:58 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review [GPS]
In-Reply-To: <BE6C4BB8-7118-4C87-BECD-5364974E49D6@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <C9B66DE2.30343%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

Um, I am sure it is quite a bit more than $10.

Just the 7 to 9 inch LCD screen is going to cost more than that, even at OEM
prices. Then you have a fairly powerful embedded processor, a proprietary
operating system and the GPS receiver. Parts-wise, I would imagine it was
similar to an iPhone, minus the fancy case and battery -- say, $100.

You are right about the profit motive -- that's why they include it as
standard equipment -- because the "perceived value" lets them raise the
price of the car. Not necessarily public demand for that particular feature.


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 3/28/11 4:30 PM, Murray Arundell at arundell at ghs.com.au wrote:

> The reality is that cars are built to a price, to be sold for a
> profit.  Manufacturers will only put a feature in a car for one of two
> reasons:-
> 
> They are compelled to by legislation.
> It will sell more cars.
> 
> If manufacturers are installing these devices without compulsion then
> its a no brainer that they are doing it due to public demand.  Those
> complaining about the added extra cost imposed upon them when they buy
> a new car and don't want such features are frankly displaying a lack
> of understanding of the cost of such items at the point of manufacture
> and the science behind upselling options.  Just because you ask for a
> factory GPS to be installed as an option and are charged $500-00 for
> it does not mean that the cost to the manufacturer is anything even
> remotely close to that figure.  The cost of pricing options has
> nothing whatsoever to do with the cost to the manufacturer but
> EVERYTHING to do with what the manufacturer thinks the customer will
> pay.  It would be my guess that MG/Ford/GM/VW etc are paying no more
> than $10.00 for the GPS hardware going into their vehicles.
> 
> Murray Arundell
> Brisbane Australia

From geoff at 1956mga.com  Mon Mar 28 17:02:03 2011
From: geoff at 1956mga.com (Geoff)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:02:03 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review [GPS]
In-Reply-To: <C9B66DE2.30343%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
References: <BE6C4BB8-7118-4C87-BECD-5364974E49D6@ghs.com.au>
	<C9B66DE2.30343%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimw0pJxRXknNiinSezV2O=nEtPU+xW2Nbs_nzh_@mail.gmail.com>

You guys must all shop for new cars in a much higher price bracket than
me.   I can't think of a single new car I've looked at that had GPS as
standard equipment.

Geoff

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Max Heim <max_heim at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Um, I am sure it is quite a bit more than $10.
>
> Just the 7 to 9 inch LCD screen is going to cost more than that, even at
> OEM
> prices. Then you have a fairly powerful embedded processor, a proprietary
> operating system and the GPS receiver. Parts-wise, I would imagine it was
> similar to an iPhone, minus the fancy case and battery -- say, $100.
>
> You are right about the profit motive -- that's why they include it as
> standard equipment -- because the "perceived value" lets them raise the
> price of the car. Not necessarily public demand for that particular
> feature.
>
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Mountain View, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>
>
> on 3/28/11 4:30 PM, Murray Arundell at arundell at ghs.com.au wrote:
>
> > The reality is that cars are built to a price, to be sold for a
> > profit.  Manufacturers will only put a feature in a car for one of two
> > reasons:-
> >
> > They are compelled to by legislation.
> > It will sell more cars.
> >
> > If manufacturers are installing these devices without compulsion then
> > its a no brainer that they are doing it due to public demand.  Those
> > complaining about the added extra cost imposed upon them when they buy
> > a new car and don't want such features are frankly displaying a lack
> > of understanding of the cost of such items at the point of manufacture
> > and the science behind upselling options.  Just because you ask for a
> > factory GPS to be installed as an option and are charged $500-00 for
> > it does not mean that the cost to the manufacturer is anything even
> > remotely close to that figure.  The cost of pricing options has
> > nothing whatsoever to do with the cost to the manufacturer but
> > EVERYTHING to do with what the manufacturer thinks the customer will
> > pay.  It would be my guess that MG/Ford/GM/VW etc are paying no more
> > than $10.00 for the GPS hardware going into their vehicles.
> >
> > Murray Arundell
> > Brisbane Australia
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/geoff at 1956mga.com

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Mon Mar 28 17:09:18 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 10:09:18 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review [GPS]
In-Reply-To: <C9B66DE2.30343%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
References: <C9B66DE2.30343%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <FCCBFF52-FF08-42DB-90CC-D4DA81DCF86B@ghs.com.au>

Max,

You'd be staggered if you knew the real cost of mobile phone hardware,  
let alone the GPS etc.  Maybe $10.00 is too little, but I can assure  
you $100.00 is too much.








Murray G. Arundell
Managing Director
GHS Pty Ltd
Glaziers Hardware Supplies
Brisbane, Australia
Phone:  +617 3277 1255
Fax:      +617 3875 1256
Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au

On 29/03/2011, at 9:54 AM, Max Heim wrote:

> Um, I am sure it is quite a bit more than $10.
>
> Just the 7 to 9 inch LCD screen is going to cost more than that,  
> even at OEM
> prices. Then you have a fairly powerful embedded processor, a  
> proprietary
> operating system and the GPS receiver. Parts-wise, I would imagine  
> it was
> similar to an iPhone, minus the fancy case and battery -- say, $100.
>
> You are right about the profit motive -- that's why they include it as
> standard equipment -- because the "perceived value" lets them raise  
> the
> price of the car. Not necessarily public demand for that particular  
> feature.
>
>
> --
>
> Max Heim
> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> If you're near Mountain View, CA,
> it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>
>
> on 3/28/11 4:30 PM, Murray Arundell at arundell at ghs.com.au wrote:
>
>> The reality is that cars are built to a price, to be sold for a
>> profit.  Manufacturers will only put a feature in a car for one of  
>> two
>> reasons:-
>>
>> They are compelled to by legislation.
>> It will sell more cars.
>>
>> If manufacturers are installing these devices without compulsion then
>> its a no brainer that they are doing it due to public demand.  Those
>> complaining about the added extra cost imposed upon them when they  
>> buy
>> a new car and don't want such features are frankly displaying a lack
>> of understanding of the cost of such items at the point of  
>> manufacture
>> and the science behind upselling options.  Just because you ask for a
>> factory GPS to be installed as an option and are charged $500-00 for
>> it does not mean that the cost to the manufacturer is anything even
>> remotely close to that figure.  The cost of pricing options has
>> nothing whatsoever to do with the cost to the manufacturer but
>> EVERYTHING to do with what the manufacturer thinks the customer will
>> pay.  It would be my guess that MG/Ford/GM/VW etc are paying no more
>> than $10.00 for the GPS hardware going into their vehicles.
>>
>> Murray Arundell
>> Brisbane Australia
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar 28 17:16:25 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:16:25 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review [GPS]
In-Reply-To: <FCCBFF52-FF08-42DB-90CC-D4DA81DCF86B@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <C9B672E9.3034F%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

I was going by a published article that broke down a $499 iPhone and priced
out all the components. My recollection is that it came to over $120.

So I'm not just guessing -- at least I have a reference point...

--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 3/28/11 5:09 PM, Murray Arundell at arundell at ghs.com.au wrote:

> Max,
> 
> You'd be staggered if you knew the real cost of mobile phone hardware,
> let alone the GPS etc.  Maybe $10.00 is too little, but I can assure
> you $100.00 is too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murray G. Arundell
> Managing Director
> GHS Pty Ltd
> Glaziers Hardware Supplies
> Brisbane, Australia
> Phone:  +617 3277 1255
> Fax:      +617 3875 1256
> Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au
> 
> On 29/03/2011, at 9:54 AM, Max Heim wrote:
> 
>> Um, I am sure it is quite a bit more than $10.
>> 
>> Just the 7 to 9 inch LCD screen is going to cost more than that,
>> even at OEM
>> prices. Then you have a fairly powerful embedded processor, a
>> proprietary
>> operating system and the GPS receiver. Parts-wise, I would imagine
>> it was
>> similar to an iPhone, minus the fancy case and battery -- say, $100.
>> 
>> You are right about the profit motive -- that's why they include it as
>> standard equipment -- because the "perceived value" lets them raise
>> the
>> price of the car. Not necessarily public demand for that particular
>> feature.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Max Heim
>> '66 MGB GHN3L76149
>> If you're near Mountain View, CA,
>> it's the primer red one with chrome wires

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar 28 17:21:26 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:21:26 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <3167653F-6FED-44F0-AD6E-A9692B1F77D5@ghs.com.au>
References: <964.10761a5c.3ac26c97@aol.com>
	<3167653F-6FED-44F0-AD6E-A9692B1F77D5@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4D912606.4090603@justbrits.com>

<< Should we also make seat belts, airbags, intrusion bars and crumple
zones optional as well...? >>

Just like 'roo' bars, Murray !!!

Ed

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar 28 17:49:59 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:49:59 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
	<97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4D912CB7.50907@justbrits.com>

<< ...I'd rather be in traffic surrounded by people listening to GPS 
directions... >>

Er "up" here Murray, drivers WATCH - I mean 'try' too <G> - their
GPS Screens !!!  Just as bad - maybe worse - as 'reading' a map.

Ed

From arundell at ghs.com.au  Mon Mar 28 18:06:20 2011
From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:06:20 +1000
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <4D912CB7.50907@justbrits.com>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
	<97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
	<4D912CB7.50907@justbrits.com>
Message-ID: <A45D362B-5539-427A-986D-C07218002F57@ghs.com.au>

No need to watch, just listen to the directions..... In any event  
there are only two decent drivers in this world, you and me..... and  
Im not too sure about you :)

On 29/03/2011, at 10:49 AM, Shop at Just Brits wrote:

> << ...I'd rather be in traffic surrounded by people listening to GPS  
> directions... >>
>
> Er "up" here Murray, drivers WATCH - I mean 'try' too <G> - their
> GPS Screens !!!  Just as bad - maybe worse - as 'reading' a map.
>
> Ed
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Mon Mar 28 18:56:21 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:56:21 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review (GPS)
In-Reply-To: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>,
	<97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W645FEA3C29BE6DCC38D079B7BD0@phx.gbl>

It's a problem to create a generation of drivers who can't go anywhere without
a machine to bark instructions at them.  What will they do when their GPS
doesn't work, for whatever reason, and they don't know where they are or how
they got there?  It's a problem to create a generation of people who can't
find their way to Point A if Point A isn't in the machine.

Or as you say, maybe that's actually a safety feature.  For the rest of us.



> CC: barrie at look.ca; mgs at autox.team.net
> From: arundell at ghs.com.au
> To: redscirocco at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:50:14 +1000
>
> This is a problem because....? Who says conventional mapping is any
> more accurate. Its my experience that conventional mapping can
> contain absolute howlers of mistakes..... I'd rather be in traffic
> surrounded by people listening to GPS directions than be surrounded by
> drivers trying to navigate solo while looking at a map lying on the
> passenger's seat..... From a Road Safey point of view its an absolute
> no brainer..... and given this GPS SHOULD be a standard fitting. How
> often have we been carved up by some moron who clearly has no idea
> where he is or where he is going and out the corner of his eye spots
> the street or off ramp he needs.....
>
> Murray Arundell
> Brisbane Australia
>
>
> > I am also concerned about how they will change driving and drivers
> > in the
> > future, and I think the trend toward including them as standard
> > equipment will
> > encourage people to depend on them.
> >
> > -Mike Eldred
> > Wilmington, VT
> >
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:16:25 -0400
> >> To: geoff at 1956mga.com; paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk
> >> From: barrie at look.ca
> >> CC: mgs at autox.team.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
> >>
> >> What we have is technologies desperately chasing problems. I do not
> >> need a GPS and when I buy a car I do not want to have to pay for
> >> it. Similarly I do not need a wet cabbage leaf reader so I do not
> >> have to buy one in my new car.
> >>
> >> Hey! whatever happened to cigarette lighters ? Used to use them to
> >> burn leeches off when in Malaya!
> >>
> >> At 11:51 AM 3/28/2011, Geoff wrote:
> >>> Complaining about GPS/Sat Nav just seems silly. It's a tool, use
> >>> it wrong
> >>> and it'll be an issue. There are plenty of examples of dumb people
> >>> getting
> >>> lost in the wilderness because they can't read a map or use a
> >>> compass.
> >>> Shall we complain about that technology too? Don't blame the tool,
> >>> blame
> >>> the idiot using it.
> >>>
> >>> I use my GPS all the time. I travel a bit for work, and arriving
> >>> in a new
> >>> town, I can pull up Yelp on my phone, get a review for a
> >>> restaurant, and
> >>> click a button to open the directions in the GPS functions, which
> >>> can then
> >>> give me walking or driving directions to the restaurant. It's
> >>> brilliant.
> >>> For the luddites out there, I suppose you could catalog the
> >>> restaurant
> >>> reviews from the paper, maybe in a three ring binder. Then, once
> >>> you've
> >>> picked one, find a pay phone (good luck with that) to call and get
> >>> the
> >>> address, then pull out the paper map. Good luck with the rerouting
> >>> if you
> >>> miss an exit or there is construction. Make sure you pull over
> >>> before you
> >>> use the map.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Barrie
> >> barrie at look.ca
> >> 705--721-9060
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Mgs at autox.team.net
> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >> Unsubscribe:
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar 28 18:58:47 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:58:47 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <alpine.NEB.2.00.1103281913400.16316@panix1.panix.com>
References: <1076.370288be.3ac26ee7@aol.com>
	<alpine.NEB.2.00.1103281913400.16316@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4D913CD7.4000903@justbrits.com>

<< Of course, with the horrendous rear visibility of modern
cars, cameras probably should be considered for mandatory
requirements. >>

Prob'ly a pair of 'em, Arron.  One on each corner & will
swivel 120 degs from right angle of vehicle to "crossed
fields" to the rear !!  Prolly "auto zoom with shape
recognition".

Add some more $$$$$$$$.

I don't recall who mentioned GPS Output for detailed
accident reports but yer correct.  I recall something in the
Chi. Trib 6 - 8 weeks ago directly to the effect !!  IIRC,
Northwestern Technical [think Traffic Accident Investigat-
ions course to Police Officers everywhere] was doing a
"study" <G> !!!  More of OUR $$$$$$.  Geesh<F> !

Ed

PS:  Arron, got it;  thanks !!

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar 28 19:14:43 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:14:43 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <A45D362B-5539-427A-986D-C07218002F57@ghs.com.au>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
	<97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
	<4D912CB7.50907@justbrits.com>
	<A45D362B-5539-427A-986D-C07218002F57@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4D914093.30008@justbrits.com>

<< No need to watch,.......>>

YOU know that Murray, *I* know that, prolly 99% of the rest
of the Listers know that;

Guess what ??  Does NOT mean a thing !!!

I see it ALL the time !!  Minimum of TEN [ 10 ] a day !!

Ed

From awhitema at panix.com  Mon Mar 28 19:40:06 2011
From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:40:06 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
In-Reply-To: <51CD8BFC05DE412BBCB38B0D7B2EA957@paul>
References: <8C8E827C-0C0F-484C-8470-A4FDA2D1F471@panix.com>
	<51CD8BFC05DE412BBCB38B0D7B2EA957@paul>
Message-ID: <0FE2CC23-B9F1-4960-B37D-C248A49DE8E2@panix.com>

On Mar 28, 2011, at 12:58 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:

> 160 and 180 are about 1/4" apart on the temp gauge.  If your gauge never or
barely got off the end-stop then the stat that is in is faulty, pure and
simple.  I agree that changing to a 'summer' stat is pointless, in most MGBs
the stat will be fully open anyway regardless of its value.

Eep!  So it's not the thermostat after all.

I pulled it tonight and it says "88*" on the side.  Since it's a german brand,
I assumed 88C, which is 190F.  Using the pan-o-water testing method, I
verified it opened at 86C and closed correctly too.

I noted that when I put the coolant back in, it wasn't quite reaching the top
of the core, so I added some more.  Maybe a pint, probably less.  Would this
be enough to cause erratic readings?  I'll be doing the "drive some, stop and
check temp, drive some more, repeat" process soon enough.  Glad I have that
infrared thermometer!

--
Aaron

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 28 19:44:01 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:44:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <20110328.122614.13118.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <908748.60724.qm@web112117.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Mon, 3/28/11, mgbob at juno.com <mgbob at juno.com> wrote:

>  Is there a
different name today for what
> was once an ash tray?
 
Cup holder.

Different
function, but occupies the same space.

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 28 19:52:49 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:52:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <63707.15079.qm@web112120.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Mon, 3/28/11, Max Heim <max_heim at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> The choice isn't between listening to a GPS while
> driving and awkwardly reading a map while driving.
> 
> It's between reading a map and comprehending the overall
> route, important
> landmarks and critical junctions *before starting out*...

That requires a memory better than I've ever had.

I can find my way just fine driving cross country, but
commit an entire route to memory?  Impossible.  Three or
four waypoints tops, but only if I keep reciting them
out loud.  You'd might was well ask me to recollect the
names of every student in my first grade class.

From shop at justbrits.com  Mon Mar 28 20:30:01 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:30:01 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] [Mg-t] TF on Ebay, NFI
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-W204A00F8220F0EB98B9273B7B10@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT124-W204A00F8220F0EB98B9273B7B10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4D915239.3060207@justbrits.com>

Didn't sell at $ 13,990.00 so it's been 're-listed' <G>, Mike !!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120703946532

Chap 'needs' to do some more WORK methinks !!  LOL !

Ed

From barneymg at mgaguru.com  Mon Mar 28 19:04:23 2011
From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:04:23 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <3167653F-6FED-44F0-AD6E-A9692B1F77D5@ghs.com.au>
References: <964.10761a5c.3ac26c97@aol.com>
	<3167653F-6FED-44F0-AD6E-A9692B1F77D5@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <949689.45670.qm@smtp109.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Yes, please.  You can kill most of the government mandates on crash protection.

Crumple zones have been standard issue on just about all cars for 
about 50 years, ever since Mercedes patented it in 1952, made it 
standard issue in 1959, and gave the production rights away free to 
the general public.  It was not originally mandated by the 
government, but in more recent years the govenment specifies how well 
it should work (crash test standards).  Crumple zones are essentiall 
free in production after the engineering is done.  MGA, MGB, and even 
the Z-Magnettes have pretty good crumple zones.  They can likely take 
a 40 mph staight on whack on either end of the car and still be able 
to open and close the doors.

While seat belts and side intrusion bars are a good idea, they should 
not necessarily be mandated by the government.  If we left out the 
air bags and most of the other expeneive safety devices, maybe the 
idiots who drive bad and refuse to wear the belts would eventually be 
weeded out of the gene pool (in about a thousand years).  When people 
think they are surrounded by a NASCAR crash cage they have lots less 
incentive to be careful and courteous drivers.

Somewhere in Europe some years ago (Italy perhaps) there was a study 
of Mercedes taxi cabs that were equipped with alti-lock brakes.  The 
ones without anti-lock brakes had lower accident rates and smaller 
insurance claims, because the idiot drivers with anti-lock brakes 
thought the brakes would save them from anything and proceeded to 
drive more aggeressively (causing more accidents).

By the way, I did not say GPS and Sat Nav was a bad idea, only that 
it should not be built into the cars.  It is good business if there 
is a public demand for it as an optional asseccory, but people who 
don't want it should not be forced to share the cost.

$0.015

Barney


At 09:06 AM 3/29/2011 +1000, Murray Arundell wrote:
>You're assuming of course that said lights and brakes are working....
>
>Should we also make seat belts, airbags, intrusion bars and crumple
>zones optional as well...?
>....

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Tue Mar 29 05:58:06 2011
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:58:06 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Other Drivers - was  MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <949689.45670.qm@smtp109.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <964.10761a5c.3ac26c97@aol.com>
	<3167653F-6FED-44F0-AD6E-A9692B1F77D5@ghs.com.au>
	<949689.45670.qm@smtp109.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005901cbee10$f308d1c0$d91a7540$@com>

Somebody, somewhere in the dim past suggested putting the drivers out in
front of the front bumper.
Probably the first edition of "How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive" by John
Muir and Tosh Gregg.
I'll have to dig it out and see...

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Barney Gaylord
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 10:04 PM
To: Murray Arundell
Cc: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review

Yes, please.  You can kill most of the government mandates on crash
protection.

Crumple zones have been standard issue on just about all cars for 
about 50 years, ever since Mercedes patented it in 1952, made it 
standard issue in 1959, and gave the production rights away free to 
the general public.  It was not originally mandated by the 
government, but in more recent years the govenment specifies how well 
it should work (crash test standards).  Crumple zones are essentiall 
free in production after the engineering is done.  MGA, MGB, and even 
the Z-Magnettes have pretty good crumple zones.  They can likely take 
a 40 mph staight on whack on either end of the car and still be able 
to open and close the doors.

While seat belts and side intrusion bars are a good idea, they should 
not necessarily be mandated by the government.  If we left out the 
air bags and most of the other expeneive safety devices, maybe the 
idiots who drive bad and refuse to wear the belts would eventually be 
weeded out of the gene pool (in about a thousand years).  When people 
think they are surrounded by a NASCAR crash cage they have lots less 
incentive to be careful and courteous drivers.

Somewhere in Europe some years ago (Italy perhaps) there was a study 
of Mercedes taxi cabs that were equipped with alti-lock brakes.  The 
ones without anti-lock brakes had lower accident rates and smaller 
insurance claims, because the idiot drivers with anti-lock brakes 
thought the brakes would save them from anything and proceeded to 
drive more aggeressively (causing more accidents).

By the way, I did not say GPS and Sat Nav was a bad idea, only that 
it should not be built into the cars.  It is good business if there 
is a public demand for it as an optional asseccory, but people who 
don't want it should not be forced to share the cost.

$0.015

Barney


At 09:06 AM 3/29/2011 +1000, Murray Arundell wrote:
>You're assuming of course that said lights and brakes are working....
>
>Should we also make seat belts, airbags, intrusion bars and crumple
>zones optional as well...?
>....
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/steve at coastaldatasystems.com

From barrie at look.ca  Tue Mar 29 09:33:22 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:33:22 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review [GPS]
In-Reply-To: <FCCBFF52-FF08-42DB-90CC-D4DA81DCF86B@ghs.com.au>
References: <C9B66DE2.30343%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<FCCBFF52-FF08-42DB-90CC-D4DA81DCF86B@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <E1Q4bvX-0001tG-Cx@zeta.look.ca>

I am just about to buy some 200 "smart phones" GPS etc. etc., for 
something I am working on and the price is well below $100.


At 08:09 PM 3/28/2011, Murray Arundell wrote:
>Max,
>
>You'd be staggered if you knew the real cost of mobile phone hardware,
>let alone the GPS etc.  Maybe $10.00 is too little, but I can assure
>you $100.00 is too much.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Murray G. Arundell
>Managing Director
>GHS Pty Ltd
>Glaziers Hardware Supplies
>Brisbane, Australia
>Phone:  +617 3277 1255
>Fax:      +617 3875 1256
>Email:   arundell at ghs.com.au
>
>On 29/03/2011, at 9:54 AM, Max Heim wrote:
>
> > Um, I am sure it is quite a bit more than $10.
> >
> > Just the 7 to 9 inch LCD screen is going to cost more than that,
> > even at OEM
> > prices. Then you have a fairly powerful embedded processor, a
> > proprietary
> > operating system and the GPS receiver. Parts-wise, I would imagine
> > it was
> > similar to an iPhone, minus the fancy case and battery -- say, $100.
> >
> > You are right about the profit motive -- that's why they include it as
> > standard equipment -- because the "perceived value" lets them raise
> > the
> > price of the car. Not necessarily public demand for that particular
> > feature.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Max Heim
> > '66 MGB GHN3L76149
> > If you're near Mountain View, CA,
> > it's the primer red one with chrome wires
> >
> >
> >
> > on 3/28/11 4:30 PM, Murray Arundell at arundell at ghs.com.au wrote:
> >
> >> The reality is that cars are built to a price, to be sold for a
> >> profit.  Manufacturers will only put a feature in a car for one of
> >> two
> >> reasons:-
> >>
> >> They are compelled to by legislation.
> >> It will sell more cars.
> >>
> >> If manufacturers are installing these devices without compulsion then
> >> its a no brainer that they are doing it due to public demand.  Those
> >> complaining about the added extra cost imposed upon them when they
> >> buy
> >> a new car and don't want such features are frankly displaying a lack
> >> of understanding of the cost of such items at the point of
> >> manufacture
> >> and the science behind upselling options.  Just because you ask for a
> >> factory GPS to be installed as an option and are charged $500-00 for
> >> it does not mean that the cost to the manufacturer is anything even
> >> remotely close to that figure.  The cost of pricing options has
> >> nothing whatsoever to do with the cost to the manufacturer but
> >> EVERYTHING to do with what the manufacturer thinks the customer will
> >> pay.  It would be my guess that MG/Ford/GM/VW etc are paying no more
> >> than $10.00 for the GPS hardware going into their vehicles.
> >>
> >> Murray Arundell
> >> Brisbane Australia
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Mgs at autox.team.net
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705--721-9060 

From barrie at look.ca  Tue Mar 29 09:30:19 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:30:19 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
References: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
	<C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca>

Max, Max, Max,  !!!!!!

You forget that relying on an LCD stuck in front of your nose is 
todays standard.  Anything else requires intelligence and common sense.


At 07:38 PM 3/28/2011, Max Heim wrote:
>The choice isn't between listening to a GPS while driving and awkwardly
>reading a map while driving.
>
>It's between reading a map and comprehending the overall route, important
>landmarks and critical junctions *before starting out*, as opposed to
>blindly relying on real-time instructions from a GPS while otherwise being
>entirely ignorant of the environment. In the latter case, say the unit craps
>out, or runs to the end of its database and asks you to load a new CD, or
>loses satellite lock in a canyon or downtown district -- you are suddenly
>and completely at a loss.
>
>While if you took the time to create a mental picture of the region and
>understand the major road networks, you would generally know where you were
>in the scheme of things.
>
>I'm not saying a GPS nav system isn't a useful tool. But if everyone relies
>on them utterly, we will wind up with a generation of drivers that never
>actually knows where they are (in the sense of looking out the window and
>recognizing landmarks), and moreover, doesn't even see why that might be
>important. Then the North Koreans will blow up a geostationary satellite,
>filling the orbit with space junk, and bring the whole system down, causing
>immediate chaos on the roads  ;-)
>
>--
>
>Max Heim
>'66 MGB GHN3L76149
>If you're near Mountain View, CA,
>it's the primer red one with chrome wires
>
>on 3/28/11 3:50 PM, Murray Arundell at arundell at ghs.com.au wrote:
>
> > This is a problem because....?  Who says conventional mapping is any
> > more accurate.  Its my experience that conventional mapping can
> > contain absolute howlers of mistakes..... I'd rather be in traffic
> > surrounded by people listening to GPS directions than be surrounded by
> > drivers trying to navigate solo while looking at a map lying on the
> > passenger's seat..... From a Road Safey point of view its an absolute
> > no brainer..... and given this GPS SHOULD be a standard fitting.  How
> > often have we been carved up by some moron who clearly has no idea
> > where he is or where he is going and out the corner of his eye spots
> > the street or off ramp he needs.....
> >
> > Murray Arundell
> > Brisbane Australia
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
705--721-9060 

From dbh at hamengr.com  Tue Mar 29 09:52:34 2011
From: dbh at hamengr.com (David B. Hammond)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:52:34 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] TDC at compression
In-Reply-To: <E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca>
References: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
	<C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <000001cbee31$b44a7da0$1cdf78e0$@com>

Any help in determining when no 1 is at TDC for ignition timing?

From rbgosling at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 29 09:58:13 2011
From: rbgosling at googlemail.com (Richard Gosling)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:58:13 +0100
Subject: [Mgs] TDC at compression
In-Reply-To: <000001cbee31$b44a7da0$1cdf78e0$@com>
References: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
	<C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca> <000001cbee31$b44a7da0$1cdf78e0$@com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikLsxPSRLComwSa8y=JL-05e5tKqw@mail.gmail.com>

Take the valve cover off.  When both valves on No. 4 cylinder are open, No.
1 cylinder is at TDC firing (or close to it, use the timing marks on the
pulley for exact measurement).

Richard

On 29 March 2011 17:52, David B. Hammond <dbh at hamengr.com> wrote:

> Any help in determining when no 1 is at TDC for ignition timing?
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/rbgosling at googlemail.com

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Tue Mar 29 10:11:19 2011
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:11:19 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] TDC at compression
In-Reply-To: <000001cbee31$b44a7da0$1cdf78e0$@com>
References: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>
	<C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>
	<E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca> <000001cbee31$b44a7da0$1cdf78e0$@com>
Message-ID: <00c501cbee34$52d63070$f8829150$@com>

Both valves will be up (and will have been during the compression stroke)
and if the distributer is not out of phase the rotor will be near/at the #1
plug wire.
To get even closer you can put something in the spark plug hole and see when
it is at its highest point and combined with a timing disk you can find it
exactly.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK


-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of David B. Hammond
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:53 PM
To: 'MG List'
Subject: [Mgs] TDC at compression

Any help in determining when no 1 is at TDC for ignition timing?
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/steve at coastaldatasystems.com

From rocknatural at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 10:18:01 2011
From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:18:01 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
In-Reply-To: <557CBDD4-4D15-45BF-B569-52BD796AE43F@ghs.com.au>
References: <20411.5369c956.3ac0a6d4@aol.com>,
	<AANLkTinAJ=oQF-z+ErTifaKH8D9hzSb=yzxPeiS5ah_k@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E85BEC9380C648D4B54AE47F42482E8E@paul>,
	<AANLkTi=YeLx3302cd3-nvkNJ+zY=YfiHuhiZprY70=Zw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<E1Q4F89-0003QE-Gd@beta.look.ca>
	<SNT124-W622418B4669F733C265A8DB7BA0@phx.gbl>
	<000601cbed77$255af440$7010dcc0$@com>
	<557CBDD4-4D15-45BF-B569-52BD796AE43F@ghs.com.au>
Message-ID: <4D921449.6090109@gmail.com>

On 3/28/2011 5:51 PM, Murray Arundell wrote:
> Oh please..... Never assume Conspiracy, always assume its a Cock-up.
>
> On 29/03/2011, at 4:37 AM, Stephen West-Fisher wrote:
>
>> I hadn't thought of it until just now, but I wonder if they are 
>> becoming
>> standard equipment for data collection. I think all the new cars 
>> (over here
>> at least) keep a number of data points that can be retrieved after an
>> accident (speed, throttle position, etc.) and they may be wanting 
>> to add
>> position data. 
It's a fact that they are sometimes used by Police to locate people.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From mgbob at juno.com  Tue Mar 29 12:02:26 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:02:26 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
Message-ID: <20110329.150226.11159.6@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>

Aaron,   If yours is an early MGB with its temperature probe in the upper
radiator tank, being a bit low on coolant can affect the reading as the probe
must be in the liquid.   Later cars have the electric sender in the head, so
being a pint low is unlikely to affect the reading on the gauge.Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Aaron Whiteman <awhitema at panix.com>
To: Paul Hunt <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
Cc: MG Mailing List <mgs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:40:06 -0700

On Mar 28, 2011, at 12:58 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:

> 160 and 180 are about 1/4" apart on the temp gauge.  If your gauge never or
barely got off the end-stop then the stat that is in is faulty, pure and
simple.  I agree that changing to a 'summer' stat is pointless, in most MGBs
the stat will be fully open anyway regardless of its value.

Eep!  So it's not the thermostat after all.

I pulled it tonight and it says "88*" on the side.  Since it's a german
brand,
I assumed 88C, which is 190F.  Using the pan-o-water testing method, I
verified it opened at 86C and closed correctly too.

I noted that when I put the coolant back in, it wasn't quite reaching the top
of the core, so I added some more.  Maybe a pint, probably less.  Would this
be enough to cause erratic readings?  I'll be doing the "drive some, stop and
check temp, drive some more, repeat" process soon enough.  Glad I have that
infrared thermometer!

--
Aaron
_______________________________________________

Mgs at autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.75
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com

From guinness at stclegal.com  Tue Mar 29 12:27:21 2011
From: guinness at stclegal.com (Robert J. Guinness)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:27:21 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] TDC at compression
Message-ID: <4D923299.5010307@stclegal.com>

David B. Hammond wrote:

    "Any help in determining when no 1 is at TDC for ignition timing?"


Response:

A more involved method is demonstated by John Twist on youtube.com 
(University Motors video #69)

www.youtube.com/user/Universitymotorsltd#p/search/0/Aw7IdW4Qxcc


-- 
Robert Guinness
.

From mgbob at juno.com  Tue Mar 29 12:41:00 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:41:00 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Message-ID: <20110329.154100.11159.11@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>

   They have been used by at least one fire department in a nearby town to
locate fire hydrants that both they and the regional water authority had lost
track of.  No fooling---I saw a guy with a hand-held GPS at a hydrant and
asked !Bob

---------- Original Message ----------
From: The Roxter <rocknatural at gmail.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] MG6 Review
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:18:01 -0500

It's a fact that they are sometimes used by Police to locate people.

-Rocky Frisco
--

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 19:22:58 2011
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:22:58 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
In-Reply-To: <20110329.150226.11159.6@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20110329.150226.11159.6@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikC47sXfQFfFWOynRcYm4+0a6XH9VdjzVo3XXVC@mail.gmail.com>

Early MGBs have a mechanical sensing bulb in the cylinder head, not in the
rad.

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 12:02 PM, mgbob at juno.com <mgbob at juno.com> wrote:

> Aaron,   If yours is an early MGB with its temperature probe in the upper
> radiator tank, being a bit low on coolant can affect the reading as the
> probe
> must be in the liquid.   Later cars have the electric sender in the head,
> so
> being a pint low is unlikely to affect the reading on the gauge.Bob
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Aaron Whiteman <awhitema at panix.com>
> To: Paul Hunt <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Cc: MG Mailing List <mgs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:40:06 -0700
>
> On Mar 28, 2011, at 12:58 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:
>
> > 160 and 180 are about 1/4" apart on the temp gauge.  If your gauge never
> or
> barely got off the end-stop then the stat that is in is faulty, pure and
> simple.  I agree that changing to a 'summer' stat is pointless, in most
> MGBs
> the stat will be fully open anyway regardless of its value.
>
> Eep!  So it's not the thermostat after all.
>
> I pulled it tonight and it says "88*" on the side.  Since it's a german
> brand,
> I assumed 88C, which is 190F.  Using the pan-o-water testing method, I
> verified it opened at 86C and closed correctly too.
>
> I noted that when I put the coolant back in, it wasn't quite reaching the
> top
> of the core, so I added some more.  Maybe a pint, probably less.  Would
> this
> be enough to cause erratic readings?  I'll be doing the "drive some, stop
> and
> check temp, drive some more, repeat" process soon enough.  Glad I have that
> infrared thermometer!
>
> --
> Aaron
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From richard.ewald at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 19:31:39 2011
From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:31:39 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] TDC at compression
In-Reply-To: <4D923299.5010307@stclegal.com>
References: <4D923299.5010307@stclegal.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikkp6Xi=T87gVhtkbF3NQSpWsoJyw8hthJc4j5G@mail.gmail.com>

I guess that John never heard the old saying that you should give the
hardest job to the laziest guy in the shop and he will show you the easiest
way to do it.
Rick

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Robert J. Guinness
<guinness at stclegal.com>wrote:

> David B. Hammond wrote:
>
>    "Any help in determining when no 1 is at TDC for ignition timing?"
>
>
> Response:
>
> A more involved method is demonstated by John Twist on youtube.com
> (University Motors video #69)
>
> www.youtube.com/user/Universitymotorsltd#p/search/0/Aw7IdW4Qxcc
>
>
> --
> Robert Guinness
> .
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mgs at autox.team.net
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From rolindsay at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 30 06:31:58 2011
From: rolindsay at yahoo.com (Rick Lindsay)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:31:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mgs] Rick Lindsay wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <913413922.3511884.1301491918059.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod>

LinkedIn
------------

   
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Rick Lindsay

Rick Lindsay
Senior Geophysical Technical Advisor at Noble Energy, Inc. 
Houston, Texas Area

Confirm that you know Rick Lindsay
https://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-glwaon3d-3r/isd/2603586488/CnfiHE5V/


 
-- 
(c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation

From mgbob at juno.com  Wed Mar 30 06:34:29 2011
From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:34:29 GMT
Subject: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
Message-ID: <20110330.093429.24195.4@webmail12.vgs.untd.com>

Right-I was thinking TD and wrote MGB.

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Richard Ewald <richard.ewald at gmail.com>
To: "mgbob at juno.com" <mgbob at juno.com>
Cc: awhitema at panix.com, mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:22:58 -0700

Early MGBs have a mechanical sensing bulb in the cylinder head, not in the
rad.


On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 12:02 PM, mgbob at juno.com <mgbob at juno.com> wrote:
 Aaron, &#65533; If yours is an early MGB with its temperature probe in the
upper
 radiator tank, being a bit low on coolant can affect the reading as the
probe
 must be in the liquid. &#65533; Later cars have the electric sender in the
head, so
 being a pint low is unlikely to affect the reading on the gauge.Bob

 ---------- Original Message ----------
 From: Aaron Whiteman <awhitema at panix.com>
 To: Paul Hunt <paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk>
 Cc: MG Mailing List <mgs at autox.team.net>
 Subject: Re: [Mgs] you know you need a proper stat when...
 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:40:06 -0700

 On Mar 28, 2011, at 12:58 AM, Paul Hunt wrote:

 > 160 and 180 are about 1/4" apart on the temp gauge. &#65533;If your gauge
never or
 barely got off the end-stop then the stat that is in is faulty, pure and
 simple. &#65533;I agree that changing to a 'summer' stat is pointless, in
most MGBs
 the stat will be fully open anyway regardless of its value.

 Eep! &#65533;So it's not the thermostat after all.

 I pulled it tonight and it says "88*" on the side. &#65533;Since it's a
german
 brand,
 I assumed 88C, which is 190F. &#65533;Using the pan-o-water testing method,
I
 verified it opened at 86C and closed correctly too.

 I noted that when I put the coolant back in, it wasn't quite reaching the
top
 of the core, so I added some more. &#65533;Maybe a pint, probably less.
&#65533;Would this
 be enough to cause erratic readings? &#65533;I'll be doing the "drive some,
stop and
 check temp, drive some more, repeat" process soon enough. &#65533;Glad I have
that
 infrared thermometer!

 --
 Aaron
 _______________________________________________

 Mgs at autox.team.net
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
 Suggested annual donation &#65533;$12.75
 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
 Forums: http://www.team.net/forumsUnsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com
 _______________________________________________

 Mgs at autox.team.net
 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
 Suggested annual donation &#65533;$12.75
 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
 Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
 Unsubscribe:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com

From david_breneman at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 30 08:35:07 2011
From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mgs] Rick Lindsay wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <913413922.3511884.1301491918059.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed84.prod>
Message-ID: <313549.22748.qm@web112117.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

--- On Wed, 3/30/11, Rick Lindsay <rolindsay at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'd like to add you to my professional network on
> LinkedIn.
> 
> - Rick Lindsay

I never knew you could add a mailing list to your
Linkedin network.  :-)

From barrie at look.ca  Wed Mar 30 09:37:36 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:37:36 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Electrical question
Message-ID: <E1Q4yP0-0001Av-VS@gamma.look.ca>

Hello folks at world,

A sort of friend of mine found his battery was flat in his.......now 
wait for it......Saab!  But this is an electrical question not a 
Saab/MG/Brit car question.

He charged the battery and replaced with a resultant huge cloud of 
smoke and burning smell.  The lead between the alternator and chassis 
was toast (it may have been the starter - he is not too 
observant!).   Someone said it was because he reversed the polarity 
(hmmmm!) but the shop said the battery plates had collapsed and 
shorted out.   To me neither sounds right.  Anybody got an insightful 
suggestion

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
(705) 721-9060 

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Wed Mar 30 09:57:26 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:57:26 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Electrical question
In-Reply-To: <E1Q4yP0-0001Av-VS@gamma.look.ca>
Message-ID: <C9B8AF06.303ED%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

If he can't tell the difference between the alternator connection and the
ground lead, I would have to say that operator error is the most likely
explanation. Occam's Razor...


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires


on 3/30/11 9:37 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote:

> Hello folks at world,
> 
> A sort of friend of mine found his battery was flat in his.......now
> wait for it......Saab!  But this is an electrical question not a
> Saab/MG/Brit car question.
> 
> He charged the battery and replaced with a resultant huge cloud of
> smoke and burning smell.  The lead between the alternator and chassis
> was toast (it may have been the starter - he is not too
> observant!).   Someone said it was because he reversed the polarity
> (hmmmm!) but the shop said the battery plates had collapsed and
> shorted out.   To me neither sounds right.  Anybody got an insightful
> suggestion
> 
> Regards
> 
> Barrie
> barrie at look.ca
> (705) 721-9060 

From steve at coastaldatasystems.com  Wed Mar 30 13:02:46 2011
From: steve at coastaldatasystems.com (Stephen West-Fisher)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:02:46 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Electrical question
In-Reply-To: <E1Q4yP0-0001Av-VS@gamma.look.ca>
References: <E1Q4yP0-0001Av-VS@gamma.look.ca>
Message-ID: <00bf01cbef15$70715ba0$515412e0$@com>

If no blood was shed then that was the problem.
As a fellow Saab owner, I can assure you that a blood sacrifice is required
for ANY maintenance greater than an oil change.

Depending upon the engine (I am only familiar with the 2L Turbo in a 93)
there is almost no clearance for the starter wires so a short is
conceivable, although it is not the hot side of the engine. The alternator
is down there too, being at the "front" of the engine on the lower right
side with the starter  way, way up between the firewall and
engine/transmission. On some it's quite a trick to find a hole large enough
to drop the starter through.

--
Stephen West-Fisher
N4IK

-----Original Message-----
From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Barrie Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:38 PM
To: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net; mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] Electrical question

Hello folks at world,

A sort of friend of mine found his battery was flat in his.......now 
wait for it......Saab!  But this is an electrical question not a 
Saab/MG/Brit car question.

He charged the battery and replaced with a resultant huge cloud of 
smoke and burning smell.  The lead between the alternator and chassis 
was toast (it may have been the starter - he is not too 
observant!).   Someone said it was because he reversed the polarity 
(hmmmm!) but the shop said the battery plates had collapsed and 
shorted out.   To me neither sounds right.  Anybody got an insightful 
suggestion

From dcouncill at msubillings.edu  Thu Mar 31 07:33:46 2011
From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:33:46 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] Banjo rear axle repair
Message-ID: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA01446399@BILEXMB1.msubillings.edu>

I think the rear axle on my 67BGT is near failure. I bought it 12 years ago
and it has had the clunk since I bought it, when putting the car in reverse. I
replaced the u-joints the first year or so to no avail. Also, when driving at
very slow speeds, there has always been a slight knock barely audible. I
traced it to the rear axle by rotating the wheels which I believe occurred
every rotation or half rotation. It has always been on the back of mind to
take care of but since I use the car primarily for local driving, it hasn't
been urgent. But last week when the engine died while driving (down shifting),
I popped it into second gear to restart the engine and the rear axle locked
up. I freed it by going into reverse after stopping but something still
sounded loose, but after driving I made the five miles back home without any
problems, besides the usual tap heard at slow speeds like when slowing down at
an intersection. It's the original wire wheel axle most likely.

How easy is it to disassemble/repair a banjo rear axle? I am a bit reluctant
because last time I had a spare rear axle (from my 71BGT), I gave it to my son
to use in his high school automotive class when they were doing axles. They
got it apart but it came back to me in pieces.

Ideally, if I could buy another spare WW rear axle, I could swap it out and
work on the old one at my leisure. If anyone has one to sell or know of one,
let me know. I plan to come to Portland, Oregon for the swap meet in May so
anything in the Portland/Seattle area, I could pick up while there.

David Councill
67 BGT
72 B
64 B

From barrie at look.ca  Thu Mar 31 08:51:32 2011
From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:51:32 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] Banjo rear axle repair
In-Reply-To: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA01446399@BILEXMB1.msubilli
	ngs.edu>
References: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA01446399@BILEXMB1.msubillings.edu>
Message-ID: <E1Q5KAC-00046s-I6@alpha.look.ca>

David,

I had endless problems with my rear axle for my MGB GT V8 but I had 
new high ratio 3.07 gears.  I tried the local "transmission" shop who 
said "no problem".   But when I put it in it whined.  Because I had 
taken a long time to install (surprise, surprise) the shop did not 
feel responsible.  I took it to a "Brit" shop who did fix it.  So my 
advice is take it to a "Brit" shop who knows rear axles - It is the 
cheapest way !!!   But I would look for a second hand unit from 
someone like Ted Schumacher or Glen Towery.



At 10:33 AM 3/31/2011, Councill, David wrote:
>I think the rear axle on my 67BGT is near failure. I bought it 12 years ago
>and it has had the clunk since I bought it, when putting the car in reverse. I
>replaced the u-joints the first year or so to no avail. Also, when driving at
>very slow speeds, there has always been a slight knock barely audible. I
>traced it to the rear axle by rotating the wheels which I believe occurred
>every rotation or half rotation. It has always been on the back of mind to
>take care of but since I use the car primarily for local driving, it hasn't
>been urgent. But last week when the engine died while driving (down shifting),
>I popped it into second gear to restart the engine and the rear axle locked
>up. I freed it by going into reverse after stopping but something still
>sounded loose, but after driving I made the five miles back home without any
>problems, besides the usual tap heard at slow speeds like when slowing down at
>an intersection. It's the original wire wheel axle most likely.
>
>How easy is it to disassemble/repair a banjo rear axle? I am a bit reluctant
>because last time I had a spare rear axle (from my 71BGT), I gave it to my son
>to use in his high school automotive class when they were doing axles. They
>got it apart but it came back to me in pieces.
>
>Ideally, if I could buy another spare WW rear axle, I could swap it out and
>work on the old one at my leisure. If anyone has one to sell or know of one,
>let me know. I plan to come to Portland, Oregon for the swap meet in May so
>anything in the Portland/Seattle area, I could pick up while there.
>
>David Councill
>67 BGT
>72 B
>64 B
>_______________________________________________
>
>Mgs at autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca

Regards

Barrie
barrie at look.ca
(705) 721-9060 

From max_heim at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar 31 09:28:59 2011
From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:28:59 -0700
Subject: [Mgs] Banjo rear axle repair
In-Reply-To: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA01446399@BILEXMB1.msubillings.edu>
Message-ID: <C9B9F9DB.3045F%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>

I believe it's just a matter of swapping in a new "pumpkin" (differential
gear cluster). Remove the bolts and pull it from the front of the housing
(you have to pull the axles first). I wouldn't bother rebuilding it yourself
-- just swap in a known good one.


--

Max Heim
'66 MGB GHN3L76149
If you're near Mountain View, CA,
it's the primer red one with chrome wires



on 3/31/11 7:33 AM, Councill, David at dcouncill at msubillings.edu wrote:

> I think the rear axle on my 67BGT is near failure. I bought it 12 years ago
> and it has had the clunk since I bought it, when putting the car in reverse. I
> replaced the u-joints the first year or so to no avail. Also, when driving at
> very slow speeds, there has always been a slight knock barely audible. I
> traced it to the rear axle by rotating the wheels which I believe occurred
> every rotation or half rotation. It has always been on the back of mind to
> take care of but since I use the car primarily for local driving, it hasn't
> been urgent. But last week when the engine died while driving (down shifting),
> I popped it into second gear to restart the engine and the rear axle locked
> up. I freed it by going into reverse after stopping but something still
> sounded loose, but after driving I made the five miles back home without any
> problems, besides the usual tap heard at slow speeds like when slowing down at
> an intersection. It's the original wire wheel axle most likely.
> 
> How easy is it to disassemble/repair a banjo rear axle? I am a bit reluctant
> because last time I had a spare rear axle (from my 71BGT), I gave it to my son
> to use in his high school automotive class when they were doing axles. They
> got it apart but it came back to me in pieces.
> 
> Ideally, if I could buy another spare WW rear axle, I could swap it out and
> work on the old one at my leisure. If anyone has one to sell or know of one,
> let me know. I plan to come to Portland, Oregon for the swap meet in May so
> anything in the Portland/Seattle area, I could pick up while there.
> 
> David Councill
> 67 BGT
> 72 B
> 64 B

From dcouncill at msubillings.edu  Thu Mar 31 13:03:25 2011
From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:03:25 +0000
Subject: [Mgs] Banjo rear axle repair
In-Reply-To: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA01446399@BILEXMB1.msubillings.edu>
References: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA01446399@BILEXMB1.msubillings.edu>
Message-ID: <E7D7B13F08EBC4438FAEAFB46F80C1FA01446796@BILEXMB1.msubillings.edu>

I did have one person point out a significant error in my earlier email
although nobody publicly mentioned it so far. This is for my 67 MGB-GT with
wire wheels. The banjo axle was used in the Mk1 MGBs but not the BGTs, they
used the tube axle also used in post 1967 Bs and BGTs. So in reality I am
looking for options of repairing/replacing the tube, not banjo, axle. I don't
mind ripping into it so long as I know I have a backup plan in case I screw it
up or run into problems.

David Councill
67 BGT
72 B
64 B

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 31 15:41:42 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 18:41:42 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] GPS (Just for fun)
In-Reply-To: <E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca>
References: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>,
	<C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>,
	<E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W348BF432B9141E9BA9215B7BF0@phx.gbl>

Not looking to re-ignite the Sat Nav wars, but I thought I'd pass along a link
to a couple of photos I took of the the sign I mentioned in one of my earlier
posts just for the laugh.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2017711&id=1007316156&l=f5c78ab74e

This is supposed to be a "public" link, so you shouldn't need a facebook
account to see the photos, unless I've screwed something up.

Enjoy!

-Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT

From redscirocco at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 31 15:41:41 2011
From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 18:41:41 -0400
Subject: [Mgs] GPS (Just for fun)
In-Reply-To: <E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca>
References: <97203D5A-461C-41B4-92E7-97DBFDB6402C@ghs.com.au>,
	<C9B669FE.30339%max_heim@sbcglobal.net>,
	<E1Q4bvX-0001tG-6I@zeta.look.ca>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W637840CD3E6563729FB80AB7BF0@phx.gbl>

Not looking to re-ignite the Sat Nav wars, but I thought I'd pass along a link
to a couple of photos I took of the the sign I mentioned in one of my earlier
posts just for the laugh.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2017711&id=1007316156&l=f5c78ab74e

This is supposed to be a "public" link, so you shouldn't need a facebook
account to see the photos, unless I've screwed something up.

Enjoy!

-Mike Eldred
Wilmington, VT

From shop at justbrits.com  Thu Mar 31 20:22:32 2011
From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ")
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:22:32 -0500
Subject: [Mgs] WHERE was...................
Message-ID: <4D9544F8.2060701@justbrits.com>

......this link when it was WHITE stuff up to

our.............................s??

*ht*tp://tinyurl.com/4uta8qh

or*
*
http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-10863_7-10004657.html?s=0&o=10004657&tag=mncol;page

cNet 'reported' these "cars" are the "funniest ever" and page IS titled
"LOL" <G> !!!  A couple, maybe ?!?      ENJOY !!!

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