From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Wed Jun 1 09:51:03 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 16:51:03 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Axle level plug Message-ID: <5DCDDFFB786248E9B5888CFAD8C37563@paul> Anyone know the thread of this? And if there is a hex plug that fits it? The tapered socket is a pain, I've just had to chisel one of mine out. PaulH. From mike at sportscarslimited.net Wed Jun 1 10:12:11 2011 From: mike at sportscarslimited.net (Michael Singleton) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:12:11 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Axle level plug In-Reply-To: <5DCDDFFB786248E9B5888CFAD8C37563@paul> References: <5DCDDFFB786248E9B5888CFAD8C37563@paul> Message-ID: <02BE22BA8FFA448FACA6473B4FF8100D@scloffice> 1/2"BSP. You're in luck, in Britain they're at the hardware store. Some of the later MGB's came with plugs with inhex heads that would accept an Allen wrench. Mike Michael Singleton Sportscars Ltd 10170 Croydon Way Suite M Sacramento, CA 95826 (916)366-0330 mike at sportscarslimited.net -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Paul Hunt Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 8:51 AM To: V8 list; mgs at autox.team.net; MG-MGB at yahoogroups.com Subject: [Mgs] Axle level plug Anyone know the thread of this? And if there is a hex plug that fits it? The tapered socket is a pain, I've just had to chisel one of mine out. PaulH. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net From prbasmith at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 13:20:17 2011 From: prbasmith at gmail.com (Betti Ann and Preston) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 16:20:17 -0300 Subject: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE Message-ID: <4DE690F1.60302@gmail.com> Hi, I do not have a copy of the User's Manual for my 1980 MGB LE (or was there such a manual other than the one that came with the Non- LE MGBs?) In any case, I can not find the wheel nut torque setting for the distinctive LE aluminum wheels. Over the years I have been using 75 ft lbs but that may not be correct So what do you LE owners use as a setting? Thanks, Preston From mgb72 at airmail.net Wed Jun 1 16:08:08 2011 From: mgb72 at airmail.net (Chad) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 17:08:08 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE In-Reply-To: <4DE690F1.60302@gmail.com> References: <4DE690F1.60302@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002701cc20a8$643a03e0$2cae0ba0$@net> 1908 LE you shouldn't be driving it, should be in a museum... Sorry I had to. To answer the question 60-65 lbs should do the trick. 75 is a bit excessive, risk breaking the studs at that level. -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Betti Ann and Preston Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 2:20 PM To: Mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE Hi, I do not have a copy of the User's Manual for my 1980 MGB LE (or was there such a manual other than the one that came with the Non- LE MGBs?) In any case, I can not find the wheel nut torque setting for the distinctive LE aluminum wheels. Over the years I have been using 75 ft lbs but that may not be correct So what do you LE owners use as a setting? Thanks, Preston From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jun 2 02:19:20 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 09:19:20 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE References: <4DE690F1.60302@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1FF943C859494F99AAA299670BD7AE6B@paul> 60ft lb. 75 ft lb should be avoided but shouldn't do any damage on an MGB, but could on cars with a smaller diameter stud like the Midget. A while ago I had two tyres replaced somewhere I hadn't used before. Unlike other places I have used owners are forced to spectate from a separate enclosed area through a window for 'elfin safety'. It looked to me like he used an air gun to do the nuts up until it chattered, and only used the torque-wrench to check that they weren't under-tightened (instead of spinning the nuts on with the gun or brace and then using the torque-wrench for the actual final tightening). On return home I started checking how much force was needed to undo them with my torsion-bar torque-wrench. The first needed 100ftlb, the second got up to 120 then the torsion bar snapped, I had to undo the rest with a breaker bar. After that most of the nuts felt wobbly on the threads (loose on the stud, not clamping the wheel), whereas the rears didn't. Swapping fronts to rears the rear nuts on the front studs felt OK, but the front nuts on the rear studs were still wobbly, so I replaced all the nuts (V8 so not cheap) as a precaution. Of course, a complaint to the fitting company got nowhere, even involving Trading Standards. Having said all that I never have used a torque wrench when refitting wheels, but simply lean down hard on the standard tool, stamping down on it always loosens them. After the above and out of interest I did try tightening to 60 with my (new!) torque wrench and loosening as I usually do, and vice-versa, and found it came out at about 60-65 ftlb. If you use one of those girly expanding wrenches you should tighten the nuts with it closed, or use the vehicle manufacturers tool, and only use the expanded wrench or breaker bar for undoing. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > In any case, I can not find the wheel nut torque setting for the > distinctive LE aluminum wheels. Over the years I have been using 75 ft > lbs but that may not be correct From eugeneb at nni.com Thu Jun 2 11:05:19 2011 From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 13:05:19 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Tanglewood (Lenox, MA) British Motorcar Festival June 17 - 19 In-Reply-To: <4DBDED6B.8010908@justbrits.com> Message-ID: All, I have not seen mention of this here so please excuse the BW if it has been mentioned already. On the majestic grounds of Tangelwood, the summer home of the BSO http://tanglewoodmotorcarfestival.com/ This is a big event for all thing British. The whole town is embracing the festival. This includes the closure of Main Street on Saturday evening to all BUT festival registered British Cars. There are so many events with the festival to list here. Add to that all the things to do in the Berkshiers, and it makes for one "heck" of a weekend. Hope to see you there Gene 80 B --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From rocknatural at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 11:30:00 2011 From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 12:30:00 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE In-Reply-To: <1FF943C859494F99AAA299670BD7AE6B@paul> References: <4DE690F1.60302@gmail.com> <1FF943C859494F99AAA299670BD7AE6B@paul> Message-ID: <4DE7C898.5010705@gmail.com> On 6/2/2011 3:19 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > 60ft lb. 75 ft lb should be avoided but shouldn't do any damage on > an MGB, but could on cars with a smaller diameter stud like the > Midget. A while ago I had two tyres replaced somewhere I hadn't > used before. Unlike other places I have used owners are forced to > spectate from a separate enclosed area through a window for 'elfin > safety'. It looked to me like he used an air gun to do the nuts up > until it chattered, and only used the torque-wrench to check that > they weren't under-tightened (instead of spinning the nuts on with > the gun or brace and then using the torque-wrench for the actual > final tightening). On return home I started checking how much force > was needed to undo them with my torsion-bar torque-wrench. The > first needed 100ftlb, the second got up to 120 then the torsion bar > snapped, I had to undo the rest with a breaker bar. After that most > of the nuts felt wobbly on the threads (loose on the stud, not > clamping the wheel), whereas the rears didn't. Swapping fronts to > rears the rear nuts on the front studs felt OK, but the front nuts > on the rear studs were still wobbly, so I replaced all the nuts (V8 > so not cheap) as a precaution. Of course, a complaint to the > fitting company got nowhere, even involving Trading Standards. > > Having said all that I never have used a torque wrench when > refitting wheels, but simply lean down hard on the standard tool, > stamping down on it always loosens them. After the above and out of > interest I did try tightening to 60 with my (new!) torque wrench and > loosening as I usually do, and vice-versa, and found it came out at > about 60-65 ftlb. If you use one of those girly expanding wrenches > you should tighten the nuts with it closed, or use the vehicle > manufacturers tool, and only use the expanded wrench or breaker bar > for undoing. It took me a couple of days to find out who to complain to about a similar matter, where a tire company torqued the wheel nuts on a friend's Honda so tight they would not unfasten. That's actually a potentially life-threatening error. I want a State Law that forbids using an impact wrench to tighten wheel nuts. -Rocky Frisco -- From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 13:13:12 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Tanglewood (Lenox, MA) British Motorcar Festival June 17 - 19 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <536981.83271.qm@web39402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This sounds like a GREAT event, Gene..... The Berkshires are beautiful this time of year. Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Eugene Balinski To: mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 1:05:19 PM Subject: [Mgs] Tanglewood (Lenox, MA) British Motorcar Festival June 17 - 19 All, I have not seen mention of this here so please excuse the BW if it has been mentioned already. On the majestic grounds of Tangelwood, the summer home of the BSO http://tanglewoodmotorcarfestival.com/ This is a big event for all thing British. The whole town is embracing the festival. This includes the closure of Main Street on Saturday evening to all BUT festival registered British Cars. There are so many events with the festival to list here. Add to that all the things to do in the Berkshiers, and it makes for one "heck" of a weekend. Hope to see you there Gene 80 B --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Thu Jun 2 13:14:22 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE In-Reply-To: <4DE7C898.5010705@gmail.com> References: <4DE690F1.60302@gmail.com> <1FF943C859494F99AAA299670BD7AE6B@paul> <4DE7C898.5010705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <383324.62027.qm@web39407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rocky, is this one of your campaign planks? ;-) Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: The Roxter To: Mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Thu, June 2, 2011 1:30:00 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE It took me a couple of days to find out who to complain to about a similar matter, where a tire company torqued the wheel nuts on a friend's Honda so tight they would not unfasten. That's actually a potentially life-threatening error. I want a State Law that forbids using an impact wrench to tighten wheel nuts. -Rocky Frisco -- _______________________________________________ From rocknatural at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 14:10:35 2011 From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 15:10:35 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE In-Reply-To: <383324.62027.qm@web39407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4DE690F1.60302@gmail.com> <1FF943C859494F99AAA299670BD7AE6B@paul> <4DE7C898.5010705@gmail.com> <383324.62027.qm@web39407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DE7EE3B.3040401@gmail.com> On 6/2/2011 2:14 PM, Dan DiBiase wrote: > Rocky, is this one of your campaign planks? ;-) Not so far, but I might push it once I get elected. :) -Rocky Frisco -- From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 21:43:54 2011 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 20:43:54 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Wheel Nut Torque Setting - 1908 MGB LE In-Reply-To: <4DE7C898.5010705@gmail.com> References: <4DE690F1.60302@gmail.com> <1FF943C859494F99AAA299670BD7AE6B@paul> <4DE7C898.5010705@gmail.com> Message-ID: And then you get the idiots who use an impact wrench to put the wheel nuts on cross-threaded. Simon On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:30 AM, The Roxter wrote: > On 6/2/2011 3:19 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: >> >> 60ft lb. 75 ft lb should be avoided but shouldn't do any damage on an >> MGB, but could on cars with a smaller diameter stud like the Midget. A >> while ago I had two tyres replaced somewhere I hadn't used before. Unlike >> other places I have used owners are forced to spectate from a separate >> enclosed area through a window for 'elfin safety'. It looked to me like he >> used an air gun to do the nuts up until it chattered, and only used the >> torque-wrench to check that they weren't under-tightened (instead of >> spinning the nuts on with the gun or brace and then using the torque-wrench >> for the actual final tightening). On return home I started checking how >> much force was needed to undo them with my torsion-bar torque-wrench. The >> first needed 100ftlb, the second got up to 120 then the torsion bar snapped, >> I had to undo the rest with a breaker bar. After that most of the nuts felt >> wobbly on the threads (loose on the stud, not clamping the wheel), whereas >> the rears didn't. Swapping fronts to rears the rear nuts on the front studs >> felt OK, but the front nuts on the rear studs were still wobbly, so I >> replaced all the nuts (V8 so not cheap) as a precaution. Of course, a >> complaint to the fitting company got nowhere, even involving Trading >> Standards. >> >> Having said all that I never have used a torque wrench when refitting >> wheels, but simply lean down hard on the standard tool, stamping down on it >> always loosens them. After the above and out of interest I did try >> tightening to 60 with my (new!) torque wrench and loosening as I usually do, >> and vice-versa, and found it came out at about 60-65 ftlb. If you use one >> of those girly expanding wrenches you should tighten the nuts with it >> closed, or use the vehicle manufacturers tool, and only use the expanded >> wrench or breaker bar for undoing. > > It took me a couple of days to find out who to complain to about a similar > matter, where a tire company torqued the wheel nuts on a friend's Honda so > tight they would not unfasten. That's actually a potentially > life-threatening error. I want a State Law that forbids using an impact > wrench to tighten wheel nuts. > > -Rocky Frisco > -- > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com From shop at justbrits.com Thu Jun 2 23:03:22 2011 From: shop at justbrits.com (Shop at " Just Brits ") Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 00:03:22 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] [Fwd: [Spridgets] Check out these car condos] Message-ID: <4DE86B1A.6050501@justbrits.com> I would REALLY "like" one of these Units !!! -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Spridgets] Check out these car condos Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 21:32:56 -0700 From: WFO Herb To: Spridgeteers , Wedge List My kind of place!!! Herb (one of these two ought to work for you) http://www.kare11.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=958137284001#/Twin+Cities+man+creates+a+country+club+for+cars/958137284001 Click here: kare11.com | Minneapolis and St. Paul | KARE Video From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 3 12:13:25 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 11:13:25 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Reciprocity [long story] Message-ID: Last night as I was sitting down to dinner, I received a call from a friend who was having car trouble. He is an older guy, a musician, with a 1st-gen Miata. Apparently it had blown a heater hose and dumped all the coolant. He was about 7 miles away, so I told him I could be there in 15 or 20 minutes. While performing a quick scan of the workbench for odd bits of hose, clamps, etc., I was dithering about which car to take. Both are equipped with tools and a motley collection of spares. I decided to take the MG since I knew it had gas in it and I would have had to take the cover off the Barracuda. I also grabbed an extra gallon jug of water. When I arrived, I quickly saw that the upper heater hose had basically exploded. It had apparently been delaminating for some time -- it was swollen and completely severed just past the nipple coming out of the back of the head. In these Miatas, the engine ends of both heater hoses are almost inaccessible -- one is behind the exhaust manifold heat shield, and the other tucked up between the back of the head and the firewall, shrouded by the cowling, a hard AC line and the distributor. The heater hoses are both complex molded shapes, and it turned out that none of the hose I brought was the right diameter. But he had a used spare for one of the hoses -- the wrong one, but it had sufficient length, it was just going to kink a little. The question was, could I get the clamp off the cylinder head end. The only possible access was through a tiny gap from the top. My larger screwdriver could just slip through, but couldn't turn, and couldn't quite get into the hose clamp's screw slot due to the angle. A small electronics screwdriver fit, but I couldn't get enough grip with my just my fingertips to loosen the hose clamp (think about how tight these things usually are). I finally found an ancient wood-handled screwdriver in the MG's kit that wedged in, leaving enough handle protruding that I could turn it with 3 fingers, if I gouged the wood against a sharp-edged wiring bracket. After that it was relatively simple to replace the hose, though tightening the clamp was an equally painful process. I put almost an entire gallon of water into the radiator, then we started it up and checked for leaks. I was a little worried that overheating might have warped the cylinder head, since about 6 years ago the same hose had let go and I wound up replacing the head for him. But it actually ran smoothly, and there wasn't any moisture in the exhaust. Anyway, I told him I would follow him home, as it was only about a mile. We arrived without further problems, then chatted awhile. Finally, I got back into the MGB, and turned the key -- it turned over extremely slowly, twice, then expired. This was a surprise, since I had been driving it regularly (on Tuesday it went to San Francisco and back, with lights and wipers on most of the way). As it was now full dark, I didn't think we could diagnose anything. So we just pushed the MG up the driveway alongside the Miata, and got out the jumper cables. Of course it fired right up. My friend had just been saying he owed me something for my trouble, and I had been saying, forget it; now I just said, I guess we're even. Apparently something had gone south in the charging system, because all the way home, the lights were getting dimmer and dimmer. By the time I pulled into my driveway, the headlights were putting out less light than a keychain flashlight. So now I have somethig to work on this weekend. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 13:35:12 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 12:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Reciprocity [long story] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50956.79228.qm@web39405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> LOL, a sympathetic breakdown I guess, Max.... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Max Heim To: MG List Sent: Fri, June 3, 2011 2:13:25 PM Subject: [Mgs] Reciprocity [long story] Last night as I was sitting down to dinner, I received a call from a friend who was having car trouble. He is an older guy, a musician, with a 1st-gen Miata. Apparently it had blown a heater hose and dumped all the coolant. He was about 7 miles away, so I told him I could be there in 15 or 20 minutes. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 3 14:18:36 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 13:18:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Reciprocity [long story] In-Reply-To: <4DE93587.8020208@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, every time I do anything with the battery (which is far too often), I wirebrush the terminals and smear them with silicone grease. But it may be that time again. on 6/3/11 12:27 PM, The Roxter at rocknatural at gmail.com wrote: > My neighbor offered to sell me his old Toyota Corolla for $350, then he took > $50 off the price because he thought the battery was going bad. I tapped on > the battery connectors to cut though any oxide and the car has been working > fine, including charging and battery strength, for eight months. These cars > tend to produce lead oxide on the terminals, inside the connectors. I > recommend removing the connectors and cleaning the terminals and connectors > with a battery brush. Way more than half the cases I encounter are cured by > this procedure. Lead oxide looks just like lead, but it's an insulator. > > -Rocky Frisco > -- > -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires From pete_groh at yahoo.com Fri Jun 3 15:27:45 2011 From: pete_groh at yahoo.com (Pete Groh) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 14:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Rallye to Reno, Ocean City MD WEB cam sites Saturday 8:00- 9:00 AM EST Message-ID: <802008.77327.qm@web111608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Saturday, 8:00 AM - 9:00 AM with MG's in Ocean City MD May want to bookmark this site, http://www.octhebeach.com/events/beachcam.html Car are to meet up at the end of the Boardwalk, with 1st car off at 9:00AM Pete Groh (KeyGuy) Ellicott City MD USA From mgbob at juno.com Fri Jun 3 16:02:09 2011 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 22:02:09 GMT Subject: [Mgs] British By The Sea 2011 Message-ID: <20110603.180209.23572.6@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Connecticut MG Club's 24th annual British Car Show is Sunday, 5 June. 32 exhibitor classes, plus a small group of British bikes. 250 cars were on the field field in 2010, despite a vile weather forecast. We have room for many more. Registration begins at 1000; voting ends at 1300. Come join the fun in a lovely park at the Connecticut shore. Harkness Memorial State Park,Route 213, Waterford, CT, which is adjacent to New London. Bob Howard From mgrick at mgcars.org.uk Fri Jun 3 18:21:22 2011 From: mgrick at mgcars.org.uk (Rick Brown) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 20:21:22 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MG Rally to Reno Message-ID: <908D385FF1B14CC8A96613BF2EFA7E39@RickPC> Further to Pete Groh's email about webcams for the start of the MG Rally to Reno tomorrow morning - I emailed Bruce Woodson asking which of the cams on the site were best for viewing the Rally start - he Replied : Hi rick. This is awesome! I never even thought about web cams! Any of the first three show at least one angle of our parade route. Probably the best will be the north division cam. That's where we will pause for a photo under the arch. Parade starts at 9:00. Weather looks great. Please post an invitation on mg experience to check it out! Wish you were gonna be here. Bruce PS the website is: http://www.octhebeach.com/events/beachcam.html Rick Webmaster for: http://www.mgcars.org.uk/namgbr - The North American MGB Register http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgcouncil - North American Council of MG Registers http://www.mgcars.org.uk/amgcr - American MGC Register http://www.flamemini.net - Florida mini Enthusiasts From dave at ranteer.com Sat Jun 4 19:24:30 2011 From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 20:24:30 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] off topic - Tuscaloosa (Alabama) Tornado T shirts - inventory reduction sale In-Reply-To: <88358.18049.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <9806FB24-8B0C-4172-8A3D-058F8A55F1FE@tampabay.rr.com> <88358.18049.qm@smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Support the relief effort in Tuscaloosa by buying a Tee shirt at www.PrayForTTown.com. My son, Carlton Northrup, a senior at University of Alabama designed these shirts in order to raise funds for the tornado victims a few blocks from his apartment. Too many t-shirts left..2 for 1!!!!!...still time to help the victims in Tuscaloosa!!! From ccrobins at ktc.com Sat Jun 4 20:27:21 2011 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2011 21:27:21 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Reciprocity [long story] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DEAE989.1050908@ktc.com> Goes to show ya: No good deed goes unpunished. ;-) CR From lapierrem at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 7 18:23:33 2011 From: lapierrem at sbcglobal.net (mark lapierre) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 17:23:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Reno Log Interest Message-ID: <424403.82352.qm@web180101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Does anyone know of a lister that will be keeping a computer log while traveling to Reno. I would like to get on board for a Virtual trip. Please advise, Mark From mg_garage at comcast.net Wed Jun 8 04:07:32 2011 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 06:07:32 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Reno Log Interest In-Reply-To: <424403.82352.qm@web180101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <424403.82352.qm@web180101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1252B6D39588400A9B975A4CB9DEF65F@stargate> I believe that Geo Merryweather is sending email updates to NAMGAR members, at least some of them. They started out with a webcam, and there was a pic in St Louis. -------------------------------------------------- From: "mark lapierre" Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 8:23 PM To: Subject: [Mgs] Reno Log Interest > Does anyone know of a lister that will be keeping a computer log while > traveling to Reno. > I would like to get on board for a Virtual trip. > > Please advise, Mark > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net From kger at plex.com Wed Jun 8 15:17:12 2011 From: kger at plex.com (Keith G.) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:17:12 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Fuel pump replacement--connection questions Message-ID: <4DEFE6D8.18779.18D0027@kger.plex.com> I'm replacing a junky plastic fuel pump (that cracked and started leaking profusely) on my '79 B with a factory-style pump. I'm looking for ideas on how to get the new pump hooked up. The problem is that the previous pump was connected with rubber hoses clamped over protruding nubs on the pump. The new pump has those threaded holes for inset connectors. I can't find my Haynes manual at the moment, so I don't have any reference photos, but that's what I assume. (I envision connectors similar to those used at the ends of the brake lines.) I'm guessing that from the factory, the hard fuel lines ran all the way to the pump. Now I'm missing the last few inches of the hard lines, and the threaded connectors. So how should I proceed from here? -- Keith G. 1979 B From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 8 16:00:58 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 15:00:58 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Fuel pump replacement--connection questions In-Reply-To: <4DEFE6D8.18779.18D0027@kger.plex.com> Message-ID: Actually, I think there was a short segment of braided hose that spanned between the hard lines and the banjo connectors you mention. The Moss catalog shows all this in exploded view, under Fuel Lines. The parts seem to be available, if pricey. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/8/11 2:17 PM, Keith G. at kger at plex.com wrote: > I'm replacing a junky plastic fuel pump (that cracked and started leaking > profusely) on my '79 > B with a factory-style pump. I'm looking for ideas on how to get the new pump > hooked up. > > The problem is that the previous pump was connected with rubber hoses clamped > over > protruding nubs on the pump. The new pump has those threaded holes for inset > connectors. > I can't find my Haynes manual at the moment, so I don't have any reference > photos, but that's > what I assume. (I envision connectors similar to those used at the ends of > the brake lines.) > I'm guessing that from the factory, the hard fuel lines ran all the way to the > pump. Now I'm > missing the last few inches of the hard lines, and the threaded connectors. > > So how should I proceed from here? From mike at sportscarslimited.net Wed Jun 8 16:16:17 2011 From: mike at sportscarslimited.net (Michael Singleton) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:16:17 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Fuel pump replacement--connection questions In-Reply-To: <4DEFE6D8.18779.18D0027@kger.plex.com> References: <4DEFE6D8.18779.18D0027@kger.plex.com> Message-ID: <53D6B4E62650464D8CD91097FFF23B80@scloffice> Look at Mossmotors.com under P/N 376-108. Should be all the bits you need for $50. Michael Singleton Sportscars Ltd 10170 Croydon Way Suite M Sacramento, CA 95826 (916)366-0330 mike at sportscarslimited.net -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Keith G. Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 2:17 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Fuel pump replacement--connection questions I'm replacing a junky plastic fuel pump (that cracked and started leaking profusely) on my '79 B with a factory-style pump. I'm looking for ideas on how to get the new pump hooked up. The problem is that the previous pump was connected with rubber hoses clamped over protruding nubs on the pump. The new pump has those threaded holes for inset connectors. I can't find my Haynes manual at the moment, so I don't have any reference photos, but that's what I assume. (I envision connectors similar to those used at the ends of the brake lines.) I'm guessing that from the factory, the hard fuel lines ran all the way to the pump. Now I'm missing the last few inches of the hard lines, and the threaded connectors. So how should I proceed from here? -- Keith G. 1979 B _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net From member at linkedin.com Wed Jun 8 20:49:11 2011 From: member at linkedin.com (Darryl Smith via LinkedIn) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 02:49:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn Message-ID: <421349099.14665760.1307587751303.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed79.prod> LinkedIn ------------ Darryl Smith requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Ed, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Darryl Smith Accept invitation from Darryl Smith http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/blk/I56705025_55/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_djlvdj8Mdj0Tdzl9bQF9pnhJgQpgbPwQdP4OejkRcjcLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Darryl Smith http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/blk/I56705025_55/0RdlYRcz0Rc3sSdkALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW your LinkedIn profile helps you control your public image when people search for you? Setting your profile as public means your LinkedIn profile will come up when people enter your name in leading search engines. Take control of your image! http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/ewp/inv-22/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation From richard.ewald at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 21:52:33 2011 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 20:52:33 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <421349099.14665760.1307587751303.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed79.prod> References: <421349099.14665760.1307587751303.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed79.prod> Message-ID: OK, I give up, how did this wind up in my inbox? Here is the message I just got with the headers. It's addressed to Ed, no CC that I can see, no BCC listed, and it hit my inbox. Can anyone explain this to me? Rick fromDarryl Smith via LinkedIn member at linkedin.com reply-toDarryl Smith < flynshoot at aol.com> toEd Kaler dateWed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:49 PMsubject[Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedInmailing listmgs.autox.team.net Filter messages from this mailing listmailed-byautox.team.netunsubscribeUnsubscribe from this mailing-list hide details 7:49 PM (1 hour ago) LinkedIn On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darryl Smith via LinkedIn < member at linkedin.com> wrote: > LinkedIn > ------------ > > > > > Darryl Smith requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: > > ------------------------------------------ > > Ed, > > I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. > > - Darryl Smith > > Accept invitation from Darryl Smith > > http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/blk/I56705025_55/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_djlvdj8Mdj0Tdzl9bQF9pnhJgQpgbPwQdP4OejkRcjcLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ > > View invitation from Darryl Smith > > http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/blk/I56705025_55/0RdlYRcz0Rc3sSdkALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ > > ------------------------------------------ > DID YOU KNOW your LinkedIn profile helps you control your public image when > people search for you? Setting your profile as public means your LinkedIn > profile will come up when people enter your name in leading search engines. > Take control of your image! > http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/ewp/inv-22/ > > > -- > (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com From ptrmgb at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 22:10:52 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 23:10:52 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: References: <421349099.14665760.1307587751303.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed79.prod> Message-ID: The name is Ed, but the email address is the list. On Jun 8, 2011, at 10:52 PM, Richard Ewald wrote: > OK, I give up, how did this wind up in my inbox? > Here is the message I just got with the headers. > It's addressed to Ed, no CC that I can see, no BCC listed, and it hit my > inbox. > Can anyone explain this to me? > Rick > > > > fromDarryl Smith via LinkedIn member at linkedin.com reply-toDarryl Smith < > flynshoot at aol.com> > toEd Kaler > dateWed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:49 PMsubject[Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in > touch on LinkedInmailing listmgs.autox.team.net Filter messages from this > mailing listmailed-byautox.team.netunsubscribeUnsubscribe from this > mailing-list > hide details 7:49 PM (1 hour ago) > > LinkedIn > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darryl Smith via LinkedIn < > member at linkedin.com> wrote: > >> LinkedIn >> ------------ >> >> >> >> >> Darryl Smith requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> Ed, >> >> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. >> >> - Darryl Smith >> >> Accept invitation from Darryl Smith >> >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/b lk/I56705025_55/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_djlvdj8Mdj0Td zl9bQF9pnhJgQpgbPwQdP4OejkRcjcLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ >> >> View invitation from Darryl Smith >> >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/b lk/I56705025_55/0RdlYRcz0Rc3sSdkALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> DID YOU KNOW your LinkedIn profile helps you control your public image when >> people search for you? Setting your profile as public means your LinkedIn >> profile will come up when people enter your name in leading search engines. >> Take control of your image! >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/ewp/inv-22/ >> >> >> -- >> (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From FlynShoot at aol.com Wed Jun 8 22:26:14 2011 From: FlynShoot at aol.com (FlynShoot at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 00:26:14 EDT Subject: [Mgs] Sorry I bombed the list Message-ID: <26cdb.69f60f77.3b21a566@aol.com> Please forgive me for bombing the list with a linked in request. I clicked in a wrong address as I was making a request to a friend. I apologize. Darryl Smith ____________________________________ From: ptrmgb at gmail.com To: richard.ewald at gmail.com CC: flynshoot at aol.com, mgs at autox.team.net Sent: 6/8/2011 11:11:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time Subj: Re: [Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn The name is Ed, but the email address is the list. On Jun 8, 2011, at 10:52 PM, Richard Ewald wrote: > OK, I give up, how did this wind up in my inbox? > Here is the message I just got with the headers. > It's addressed to Ed, no CC that I can see, no BCC listed, and it hit my > inbox. > Can anyone explain this to me? > Rick > > > > fromDarryl Smith via LinkedIn member at linkedin.com reply-toDarryl Smith < > flynshoot at aol.com> > toEd Kaler > dateWed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:49 PMsubject[Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in > touch on LinkedInmailing listmgs.autox.team.net Filter messages from this > mailing listmailed-byautox.team.netunsubscribeUnsubscribe from this > mailing-list > hide details 7:49 PM (1 hour ago) > > LinkedIn > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darryl Smith via LinkedIn < > member at linkedin.com> wrote: > >> LinkedIn >> ------------ >> >> >> >> >> Darryl Smith requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> Ed, >> >> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. >> >> - Darryl Smith >> >> Accept invitation from Darryl Smith >> >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/blk/I56705025_55/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_djlvdj8 Mdj0Tdzl9bQF9pnhJgQpgbPwQdP4OejkRcjcLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ >> >> View invitation from Darryl Smith >> >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/blk/I56705025_55/0RdlYRcz0Rc3sSdkALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> DID YOU KNOW your LinkedIn profile helps you control your public image when >> people search for you? Setting your profile as public means your LinkedIn >> profile will come up when people enter your name in leading search engines. >> Take control of your image! >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/ewp/inv-22/ >> >> >> -- >> (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 05:48:58 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 04:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: References: <421349099.14665760.1307587751303.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed79.prod> Message-ID: <634572.69475.qm@web39403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Darryl's Linked-In connections apparently have this list with the name of 'Ed' in his 'contacts' list, is all. Look at the 'cc'. Ed is taking over the (MG) world!!!! Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Richard Ewald To: Darryl Smith Cc: Ed Kaler Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 11:52:33 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn OK, I give up, how did this wind up in my inbox? Here is the message I just got with the headers. It's addressed to Ed, no CC that I can see, no BCC listed, and it hit my inbox. Can anyone explain this to me? Rick fromDarryl Smith via LinkedIn member at linkedin.com reply-toDarryl Smith < flynshoot at aol.com> toEd Kaler dateWed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:49 PMsubject[Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedInmailing listmgs.autox.team.net Filter messages from this mailing listmailed-byautox.team.netunsubscribeUnsubscribe from this mailing-list hide details 7:49 PM (1 hour ago) LinkedIn On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darryl Smith via LinkedIn < member at linkedin.com> wrote: > LinkedIn > ------------ > > > > > Darryl Smith requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: > > ------------------------------------------ > > Ed, > > I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. > > - Darryl Smith > > Accept invitation from Darryl Smith > >http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/blk/I56705025_55/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_djlvdj8Mdj0Tdzl9bQF9pnhJgQpgbPwQdP4OejkRcjcLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ >/ > > View invitation from Darryl Smith > >http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/u_Oq6kpxrYHzNTGcRDwuct7w_Bt2Yp/blk/I56705025_55/0RdlYRcz0Rc3sSdkALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ >/ > > ------------------------------------------ > DID YOU KNOW your LinkedIn profile helps you control your public image when > people search for you? Setting your profile as public means your LinkedIn > profile will come up when people enter your name in leading search engines. > Take control of your image! > http://www.linkedin.com/e/ob6l2w-gop3zi4j-6o/ewp/inv-22/ > > > -- > (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From peter at nosimport.com Thu Jun 9 07:53:16 2011 From: peter at nosimport.com (Peter Caldwell) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 08:53:16 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Darryl Smith wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <634572.69475.qm@web39403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <421349099.14665760.1307587751303.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed79.prod> <634572.69475.qm@web39403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201106090653952.SM01424@TOSHIBA-USER3.nosimport.com> That's scary...... frightening, actually. Peter C --- At 06:48 AM 6/9/2011, Dan DiBiase wrote: >Darryl's Linked-In connections apparently have this list with the >name of 'Ed' >in his 'contacts' list, is all. Look at the 'cc'. >Ed is taking over the (MG) world!!!! > > Dan D From ptrmgb at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 11:53:44 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:53:44 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads Message-ID: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> I found the problem with my brakes binding up and pulling hard to the right. It seems the Classic Gold pads I bought don't fit. I forced them in enough to get the cotter pin in and figured it would seat itself correctly, but no, it didn't, the inside pads got stuck, and wouldn't move in the caliper. Measuring they are a good .02-.03 inches wider than the stock pads I pulled out. I've sent mail to Kelvin about it, but he's on vacation (probably in his barn under a car :-) ). I'm wondering if I could grind the edges (metal backing) to make them fit? The outside pads fit fine. From mgbob at juno.com Thu Jun 9 12:42:49 2011 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:42:49 GMT Subject: [Mgs] brake pads Message-ID: <20110609.144249.18883.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Paul, Are not all four pads the same? I have a new set of Mintex pads in hand, and they seem to be. Does the calliper move easily, sliding in and out? As there is one piston, the pressure of the piston moves the calliper to center the assembly on the disc. Sticking of the calliper does not seem to be your question, though. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Paul Root To: MG List Subject: [Mgs] brake pads Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:53:44 -0500 I found the problem with my brakes binding up and pulling hard to the right. It seems the Classic Gold pads I bought don't fit. I forced them in enough to get the cotter pin in and figured it would seat itself correctly, but no, it didn't, the inside pads got stuck, and wouldn't move in the caliper. Measuring they are a good .02-.03 inches wider than the stock pads I pulled out. I've sent mail to Kelvin about it, but he's on vacation (probably in his barn under a car :-) ). I'm wondering if I could grind the edges (metal backing) to make them fit? The outside pads fit fine. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From ptrmgb at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 12:55:48 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 13:55:48 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads In-Reply-To: <20110609.144249.18883.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> References: <20110609.144249.18883.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <00B0FC5D-0834-42DA-8D86-7D97A3AECEAB@gmail.com> Yes, the pads are the same. My first thought was that they weren't, but I confirmed that they were. The issue is the clearance on the inside side caliper is smaller that the clearance on the outside. I got a new caliper because I thought the piston was the thing that was binding, but the piston couldn't move the pad once wedged in there. On Jun 9, 2011, at 1:42 PM, mgbob at juno.com wrote: > Paul, > Are not all four pads the same? I have a new set of Mintex pads in hand, and they seem to be. > Does the calliper move easily, sliding in and out? As there is one piston, the pressure of the piston moves the calliper to center the assembly on the disc. > Sticking of the calliper does not seem to be your question, though. > Bob > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Paul Root > To: MG List > Subject: [Mgs] brake pads > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:53:44 -0500 > > I found the problem with my brakes binding up and pulling hard to the right. > > It seems the Classic Gold pads I bought don't fit. I forced them in enough to > get the cotter pin in and figured it would seat itself correctly, but no, it > didn't, the inside pads got stuck, and wouldn't move in the caliper. Measuring > they are a good .02-.03 inches wider than the stock pads I pulled out. > > I've sent mail to Kelvin about it, but he's on vacation (probably in his barn > under a car :-) ). > > I'm wondering if I could grind the edges (metal backing) to make them fit? The > outside pads fit fine. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From daybell7 at aol.com Thu Jun 9 13:27:43 2011 From: daybell7 at aol.com (daybell7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 15:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics Message-ID: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> MG'ers, My cars will leak (and sometimes dump) hydraulic fluid from the brake, clutch master cylinders, and clutch slave cylinders when sitting in the garage regardless of the age of the component. It seems I am always rebuiding or replacing the units. Many times if I pump the pedal and drive the problem disappears. I use DOT 3/4 brake fluid, and was wondering if a switch to DOT 5 would minimize the leaking? I think the real answer is to drive the cars more. Thanks in advance. Steve Hughes Gainesville, FL 68 BGT 72 MGB 73 TR6 59 Morris Minor From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 14:02:51 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 13:02:51 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: You might want to switch to Castrol LMA brake fluid instead of generic DOT4. IME generic brake fluid can rot British seals. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/9/11 12:27 PM, daybell7 at aol.com at daybell7 at aol.com wrote: > MG'ers, > > My cars will leak (and sometimes dump) hydraulic fluid from the brake, clutch > master cylinders, and clutch slave cylinders when sitting in the garage > regardless of the age of the component. It seems I am always rebuiding or > replacing the units. Many times if I pump the pedal and drive the problem > disappears. > > I use DOT 3/4 brake fluid, and was wondering if a switch to DOT 5 would > minimize the leaking? I think the real answer is to drive the cars more. > Thanks in advance. > > Steve Hughes > Gainesville, FL > 68 BGT > 72 MGB > 73 TR6 > 59 Morris Minor From mike at sportscarslimited.net Thu Jun 9 15:33:12 2011 From: mike at sportscarslimited.net (Michael Singleton) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 14:33:12 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: In the case of DOT 5 brake fluids: WARNING!!! They are not compatible with DOT 3 or 4 fluids. Mixing the 5 with either 3 or 4 in the same system can lead to catastrophic failure!! To be safe if the change is made, the cylinders, lines, etc should be purged, cleaned, all seals and like components replaced before introducing DOT 5 into your system. Or alternatively replacing all of the components with new. DOT 5 will also void the warrantee on your Lockheed or Girling components. (So, you can see what those folks think of the stuff) Michael Singleton Sportscars Ltd 10170 Croydon Way Suite M Sacramento, CA 95826 (916)366-0330 mike at sportscarslimited.net -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of daybell7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 12:28 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics MG'ers, My cars will leak (and sometimes dump) hydraulic fluid from the brake, clutch master cylinders, and clutch slave cylinders when sitting in the garage regardless of the age of the component. It seems I am always rebuiding or replacing the units. Many times if I pump the pedal and drive the problem disappears. I use DOT 3/4 brake fluid, and was wondering if a switch to DOT 5 would minimize the leaking? I think the real answer is to drive the cars more. Thanks in advance. Steve Hughes Gainesville, FL 68 BGT 72 MGB 73 TR6 59 Morris Minor _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net From dave at ranteer.com Thu Jun 9 19:01:40 2011 From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:01:40 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: References: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9EEFC233CAD4496DBBFBB28D8C3B242C@ranteer.local> DOT 5 will also void the warrantee on your Lockheed or Girling > components. (So, you can see what those folks think of the stuff) I had a discussion with a Moss techie who told me that the reason it voids the warranty is that so many people just mix the fluids they don't want to be responsible. in fact, there is no reason whatsover not to use dot 5 in your car. many of us run it in many different cars with no trouble whatsoever. From fogbro1 at comcast.net Thu Jun 9 19:02:31 2011 From: fogbro1 at comcast.net (fogbro1 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 01:02:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Baloney! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Singleton" To: daybell7 at aol.com, mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 5:33:12 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Hydraulics In the case of DOT 5 brake fluids: WARNING!!! They are not compatible with DOT 3 or 4 fluids. Mixing the 5 with either 3 or 4 in the same system can lead to catastrophic failure!! To be safe if the change is made, the cylinders, lines, etc should be purged, cleaned, all seals and like components replaced before introducing DOT 5 into your system. Or alternatively replacing all of the components with new. DOT 5 will also void the warrantee on your Lockheed or Girling components. (So, you can see what those folks think of the stuff) Michael Singleton Sportscars Ltd 10170 Croydon Way Suite M Sacramento, CA 95826 B (916)366-0330 mike at sportscarslimited.net B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of daybell7 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 12:28 PM To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics MG'ers, My cars will leak (and sometimes dump) hydraulic fluid from the brake, clutch master cylinders, and clutch slave cylinders when sitting in the garage regardless of the age of the component. B It seems I am always rebuiding or replacing the units. B Many times if I pump the pedal and drive the problem disappears. I use DOT 3/4 brake fluid, and was wondering if a switch to DOT 5 would minimize the leaking? B I think the real answer is to drive the cars more. Thanks in advance. Steve Hughes Gainesville, FL 68 BGT 72 MGB 73 TR6 59 Morris Minor _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation B $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation B $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/fogbro1 at comcast.net From richard.ewald at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 21:16:56 2011 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:16:56 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <078DAA8A-8065-4D3F-862F-B3981EDDAB7F@gmail.com> Not necessarily. Regular brake fluid hydroscopic and absorbs water. DOT5 does not. If you mix the fluids you can wind up with a pocket of water laden DOT4 somewhere in the system. This can lead to corrosion and cause a point of failure in the system. Sent from my iPhone From chillmog at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 22:05:04 2011 From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net (Charles Hill) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 23:05:04 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <078DAA8A-8065-4D3F-862F-B3981EDDAB7F@gmail.com> References: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <078DAA8A-8065-4D3F-862F-B3981EDDAB7F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DF197F0.80803@sbcglobal.net> Arguing DOT 4 vs DOT 5 has to be worse than religion or politics. And all the position in all seem to have more passion than facts. Anyone for cable brakes? Charles Hill On 6/9/2011 10:16 PM, Richard Ewald wrote: > Not necessarily. > Regular brake fluid hydroscopic and absorbs water. DOT5 does not. If you mix > the fluids you can wind up with a pocket of water laden DOT4 somewhere in the > system. This can lead to corrosion and cause a point of failure in the system. > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/chillmog at sbcglobal.net From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 10 02:03:30 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:03:30 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> Sounds like the V8 pads or callipers. They have 'handed' pads in that the inner is different to the outer on each calliper, and of course there was the time I bought a set to find three inners and one outer ... ----- Original Message ----- > It seems the Classic Gold pads I bought don't fit. I forced them in enough > to > get the cotter pin in and figured it would seat itself correctly, but no, > it > didn't, the inside pads got stuck, and wouldn't move in the caliper. > Measuring > they are a good .02-.03 inches wider than the stock pads I pulled out. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 10 02:14:26 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:14:26 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <078DAA8A-8065-4D3F-862F-B3981EDDAB7F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2CFAE004CAD646ED9322CEC744C30B5D@paul> You don't need to mix the fluids to get that. You will get moisture inside a DOT5 system exactly the same as with a DOT4, it's just that it won't get distributed through the fluid with DOT5, just lie in the pocket you mention. The difference is corrosion throughout the bore with DOT4, or localised with DOT5. What mixing the fluids causes is sludging. And then there is the wonderfully logical naming of DOT5.1, which is incompatible with DOT5 but compatible with DOT4! But all this is irrelevant, loss of fluid is caused by a failure of a seal. And if repeated failures are happening despite *replacing* the units (rebuilding doesn't always work) then there is something very wrong somewhere. To be caused by lack of use it would have to be owned by Rip van Winkle. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Regular brake fluid hydroscopic and absorbs water. DOT5 does not. If you > mix > the fluids you can wind up with a pocket of water laden DOT4 somewhere in > the > system. From redscirocco at hotmail.com Fri Jun 10 05:24:07 2011 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:24:07 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <4DF197F0.80803@sbcglobal.net> References: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>, <078DAA8A-8065-4D3F-862F-B3981EDDAB7F@gmail.com>, <4DF197F0.80803@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: And I don't understand why. If you happen to be rebuilding your brakes AND your clutch from MC to SC, I can see why you'd consider making a swap. Otherwise, it's not worth the labor to flush the system, change the seals. etc., etc. And if you're changing/rebuilding one system (brake or clutch) with a different fluid, it seems absurd not do to the other - too easy to mix them up, and why would you want to have two bottles in your toolbox rather than one? I recently installed a new clutch MC, SC, and all new lines - used the same Dot 4 that's in my brake system. If there was Dot 5 in the brakes, I would have used that. It's just hydraulic fluid, folks. The only practical real-world benefit I can think of for either one is that Dot 4 or a compatible fluid is available almost anywhere, even at the general store in the middle of nowhere. Dot 5 may or may not be on the shelf. > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:05:04 -0500 > From: chillmog at sbcglobal.net > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Hydraulics > > Arguing DOT 4 vs DOT 5 has to be worse than religion or politics. And > all the position in all seem to have more passion than facts. Anyone > for cable brakes? > Charles Hill > > On 6/9/2011 10:16 PM, Richard Ewald wrote: > > Not necessarily. > > Regular brake fluid hydroscopic and absorbs water. DOT5 does not. If you mix > > the fluids you can wind up with a pocket of water laden DOT4 somewhere in the > > system. This can lead to corrosion and cause a point of failure in the system. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mgs at autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/chillmog at sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Fri Jun 10 06:13:19 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 05:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] brake pads In-Reply-To: <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> Message-ID: <679568.32681.qm@web39420.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hmm, if that were the case for the regular pads, I guess mine (basic OEM-style pads) would have been handed as well but I don't recall that being the case and mine fit just fine - unless I got lucky and just happened to put the pouters and inners in the correct spots.... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Paul Hunt To: Paul Root ; MG List Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 4:03:30 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] brake pads Sounds like the V8 pads or callipers. They have 'handed' pads in that the inner is different to the outer on each calliper, and of course there was the time I bought a set to find three inners and one outer ... ----- Original Message ----- > It seems the Classic Gold pads I bought don't fit. I forced them in enough to > get the cotter pin in and figured it would seat itself correctly, but no, it > didn't, the inside pads got stuck, and wouldn't move in the caliper. Measuring > they are a good .02-.03 inches wider than the stock pads I pulled out. From ptrmgb at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 06:19:38 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:19:38 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <4DF197F0.80803@sbcglobal.net> References: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <078DAA8A-8065-4D3F-862F-B3981EDDAB7F@gmail.com> <4DF197F0.80803@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <33BA6E3E-BD1A-430C-926B-2B6B75C9D401@gmail.com> I want brakes by wire, controlled by a wonderful Microsoft Windows variant that needs to reboot every 45 minutes. On Jun 9, 2011, at 11:05 PM, Charles Hill wrote: > Arguing DOT 4 vs DOT 5 has to be worse than religion or politics. And all the position in all seem to have more passion than facts. Anyone for cable brakes? > Charles Hill > > On 6/9/2011 10:16 PM, Richard Ewald wrote: >> Not necessarily. >> Regular brake fluid hydroscopic and absorbs water. DOT5 does not. If you mix >> the fluids you can wind up with a pocket of water laden DOT4 somewhere in the >> system. This can lead to corrosion and cause a point of failure in the system. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/chillmog at sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From mgbob at juno.com Fri Jun 10 07:58:32 2011 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:58:32 GMT Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics Message-ID: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Hi Steve, The '68 and '72 MGBs have brake master cylinders that are difficult to rebuild and not continue leaking. Several in my '72 have leaked, rebuilt, new, new and rebuilt new. Finally I had White Post sleeve a new one. There is not much paint around the MCs. The sleeved new MC does not leak during warm weather, when I drive the car regularly. During the snow and salt season, it does leak a little. My experience with my TD is that DOT 5 leaked whereas the DOT 3 that it replaced did not leak. Having spoiled several sets of brake shoes, I had White Post sleeve all wheel cylinders, and leaks stopped. I also think that the answer is to drive the cars more, and to change fluid every couple of years. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: daybell7 at aol.com To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 15:27:43 -0400 (EDT) MG'ers, My cars will leak (and sometimes dump) hydraulic fluid from the brake, clutch master cylinders, and clutch slave cylinders when sitting in the garage regardless of the age of the component. It seems I am always rebuiding or replacing the units. Many times if I pump the pedal and drive the problem disappears. I use DOT 3/4 brake fluid, and was wondering if a switch to DOT 5 would minimize the leaking? I think the real answer is to drive the cars more. Thanks in advance. Steve Hughes Gainesville, FL 68 BGT 72 MGB 73 TR6 59 Morris Minor _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 10 08:15:36 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:15:36 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><078DAA8A-8065-4D3F-862F-B3981EDDAB7F@gmail.com><4DF197F0.80803@sbcglobal.net> <33BA6E3E-BD1A-430C-926B-2B6B75C9D401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7EFDB04E74D942D68BF5B88564122BBA@paul> On my several trips across the English Channel by fast ferry (SeaCat) there was always a display in the passenger area of a navigation screen showing islands, water depth and the like. At least once per trip this would display the Blue Screen Of Death and the Windows logo as it rebooted. One trusted that it was only for passenger interest, and not the actual navigation ... Of course each upward shift of fluid designation - DOT3, DOT4, DOT5 gave an improved resistance to boiling, which for road cars is almost totally irrelevant. DOT5 is silicone which does not contain enough lubricant for ABS systems, hence DOT5.1, which is an improvement to DOT4 (which does contain enough lubricant) but is not compatible with DOT5. However Castrol LMA is at least as good in braking performance as DOT5 and 5.1 but predates them and DOT 4 at least by years. If you can get it. ----- Original Message ----- >I want brakes by wire, controlled by a wonderful Microsoft Windows variant > that needs to reboot every 45 minutes. From strovato at optonline.net Fri Jun 10 08:48:15 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:48:15 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: References: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0LMK00KFZX7FDG20@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Max, I use Castrol LMA, but I wonder if this theory still applies. Are there really "British seals" anymore? In Steve's case, he said he's rebuilt replaced cylinders multiple times. I would imagine that replacement seals are made out of the same stuff whether for an MG or a Toyota. Maybe we need to figure out what works best with Chinese seals. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 04:02 PM 6/9/2011, Max Heim wrote: >You might want to switch to Castrol LMA brake fluid instead of generic DOT4. >IME generic brake fluid can rot British seals. From strovato at optonline.net Fri Jun 10 08:54:46 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:54:46 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads In-Reply-To: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0LMK00I6QXHEST50@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Kelvin and many others are planning to attend the big MG 2011 event in Reno. The event itself is next week, but you have to add prep time and travel on both ends. I don't know if he will be checking his email. I expect that there will be delayed responses from many in the MG world until they all return home. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 01:53 PM 6/9/2011, Paul Root wrote: >I've sent mail to Kelvin about it, but he's on vacation (probably in his barn >under a car :-) ). From ptrmgb at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 09:24:42 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:24:42 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads In-Reply-To: <0LMK00I6QXHEST50@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <0LMK00I6QXHEST50@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Like I said, he's under a car in his barn, frantically trying to get it ready for Reno. :-) I don't expect a reply from him either. On Jun 10, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Kelvin and many others are planning to attend the big MG 2011 event in Reno. The event itself is next week, but you have to add prep time and travel on both ends. I don't know if he will be checking his email. I expect that there will be delayed responses from many in the MG world until they all return home. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > > At 01:53 PM 6/9/2011, Paul Root wrote: >> I've sent mail to Kelvin about it, but he's on vacation (probably in his barn >> under a car :-) ). From ptrmgb at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 09:37:03 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:37:03 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <0LMK00KFZX7FDG20@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> <0LMK00KFZX7FDG20@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <03CE538A-3204-4279-A38B-4CB2407B0A8F@gmail.com> I was under the impression that was a Triumph that was the issue with melting seals and DOT 3. Had a friend in college with a TR4 that had that happen to him. The service manual for the MGB says DOT 3 or DOT 4. On Jun 10, 2011, at 9:48 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > Max, > > I use Castrol LMA, but I wonder if this theory still applies. Are there really "British seals" anymore? In Steve's case, he said he's rebuilt replaced cylinders multiple times. I would imagine that replacement seals are made out of the same stuff whether for an MG or a Toyota. Maybe we need to figure out what works best with Chinese seals. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > > > At 04:02 PM 6/9/2011, Max Heim wrote: >> You might want to switch to Castrol LMA brake fluid instead of generic DOT4. >> IME generic brake fluid can rot British seals. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 10 09:42:57 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 16:42:57 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> <0LMK00KFZX7FDG20@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Yeah right, and MGB seals have been rotting and leaking for years ... ----- Original Message ----- >IME generic brake fluid can rot British seals. From strovato at optonline.net Fri Jun 10 09:55:47 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:55:47 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <03CE538A-3204-4279-A38B-4CB2407B0A8F@gmail.com> References: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> <0LMK00KFZX7FDG20@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <03CE538A-3204-4279-A38B-4CB2407B0A8F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0LML00IBQ09BPMJ0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I think the issue was that British manufacturers were using natural rubber seals, while others switched to synthetic rubber seals. The belief was that Castrol LMA was more compatible with the natural rubber. It didn't matter whether it was a Triumph or an MG or whatever. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 11:37 AM 6/10/2011, Paul Root wrote: >I was under the impression that was a Triumph that was the issue >with melting seals and DOT 3. Had a friend in college with a TR4 >that had that happen to him. > >The service manual for the MGB says DOT 3 or DOT 4. From ptrmgb at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 09:59:28 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:59:28 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <0LML00IBQ09BPMJ0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com> <0LMK00KFZX7FDG20@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <03CE538A-3204-4279-A38B-4CB2407B0A8F@gmail.com> <0LML00IBQ09BPMJ0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <76EF7E5C-934D-47B4-8A58-1B3B1D09D734@gmail.com> Probably more an age thing. Later MGBs wouldn't have been affected. It would have been 1982 when my friend melted his seals. I remember a year later trying to rebuild my 72 'Bs MC, and failing miserably. On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > I think the issue was that British manufacturers were using natural rubber seals, while others switched to synthetic rubber seals. The belief was that Castrol LMA was more compatible with the natural rubber. It didn't matter whether it was a Triumph or an MG or whatever. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > > At 11:37 AM 6/10/2011, Paul Root wrote: >> I was under the impression that was a Triumph that was the issue with melting seals and DOT 3. Had a friend in college with a TR4 that had that happen to him. >> >> The service manual for the MGB says DOT 3 or DOT 4. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 10:23:28 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:23:28 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <03CE538A-3204-4279-A38B-4CB2407B0A8F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, it may be superstition at this point. But after having the MC seals dissolve back in the 80s, I have been religious about using Castrol LMA. Which is rated DOT 4, I believe. It also seems to use a different chemical base than "generic" DOT 4, so there may actually be something to it. The DOT ratings are performance standards (having to do with compressibility, water absorption, and boiling temp), not materials standards, so it is possible for manufacturers to meet them using different formulas -- the exception (of course there is an exception) is DOT 5, which only applies to silicone-based fluid. All the literature I have read on the topic warns against mixing silicone fluid with other types in the strongest possible terms. I would take that as a hint. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/10/11 8:37 AM, Paul Root at ptrmgb at gmail.com wrote: > I was under the impression that was a Triumph that was the issue with melting > seals and DOT 3. Had a friend in college with a TR4 that had that happen to > him. > > The service manual for the MGB says DOT 3 or DOT 4. > > On Jun 10, 2011, at 9:48 AM, Steven Trovato wrote: > >> Max, >> >> I use Castrol LMA, but I wonder if this theory still applies. Are there >> really "British seals" anymore? In Steve's case, he said he's rebuilt >> replaced cylinders multiple times. I would imagine that replacement seals >> are made out of the same stuff whether for an MG or a Toyota. Maybe we need >> to figure out what works best with Chinese seals. >> >> -Steve Trovato >> strovato at optonline.net >> >> >> At 04:02 PM 6/9/2011, Max Heim wrote: >>> You might want to switch to Castrol LMA brake fluid instead of generic DOT4. >>> IME generic brake fluid can rot British seals. From rocknatural at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 12:06:51 2011 From: rocknatural at gmail.com (The Roxter) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:06:51 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <4DF197F0.80803@sbcglobal.net> References: <314477119.2058989.1307667751492.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <078DAA8A-8065-4D3F-862F-B3981EDDAB7F@gmail.com> <4DF197F0.80803@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <4DF25D3B.6080007@gmail.com> On 6/9/2011 11:05 PM, Charles Hill wrote: > Arguing DOT 4 vs DOT 5 has to be worse than religion or politics. > And all the position in all seem to have more passion than facts. > Anyone for cable brakes? Then, there's the Oklahoma method: the boot on the ground through the floorboards. -Rocky Frisco -- From dave at ranteer.com Fri Jun 10 12:34:44 2011 From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:34:44 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <03CE538A-3204-4279-A38B-4CB2407B0A8F@gmail.com> References: <8CDF4F2703C1321-750-545B9@webmail-d035.sysops.aol.com><0LMK00KFZX7FDG20@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <03CE538A-3204-4279-A38B-4CB2407B0A8F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <97798FE9253644E596A8DB8726A521B6@ranteer.local> I've got dot 5 in triumphs (72 and 57), mgs (73 and 52), datsun (67), and carmaro (88) no issues, no problems, and no dissolved paint -------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Root" Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 10:37 AM To: "Steven Trovato" Cc: "MG List" Subject: Re: [Mgs] Hydraulics > I was under the impression that was a Triumph that was the issue with > melting > seals and DOT 3. Had a friend in college with a TR4 that had that happen > to > him. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 10 13:47:37 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:47:37 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <97798FE9253644E596A8DB8726A521B6@ranteer.local> Message-ID: Yes, we know DOT 5 is non-corrosive... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/10/11 11:34 AM, Dave at dave at ranteer.com wrote: > I've got dot 5 in triumphs (72 and 57), mgs (73 and 52), datsun (67), and > carmaro (88) > > no issues, no problems, and no dissolved paint > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Paul Root" > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 10:37 AM > To: "Steven Trovato" > Cc: "MG List" > Subject: Re: [Mgs] Hydraulics > >> I was under the impression that was a Triumph that was the issue with >> melting >> seals and DOT 3. Had a friend in college with a TR4 that had that happen >> to >> him. From mg_garage at comcast.net Fri Jun 10 15:02:09 2011 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:02:09 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66EE445D27584BA9882889AA57E6BD17@stargate> Seems each car has its' own peculiarities. I've got a good friend who uses dot 5 in his mga and has always had a small niggling leak. Nothing serious and only required a top up at the beginning of the driving season. And bleeding the brakes on his car always seems to be a challenge, even with a power bleeder. Once bled however, the pedal is nice and solid. Other friends have had from serious to no problems with dot 5. I use LMA in my mga and have no leaks, and with care, no missing areas of paint. Indeed, my White Post re-sleeve was done in about 1999. Since then, I've had the car apart and back together. I didn't do anything to store the MC (for 3 yrs) and 5 yrs (about 15k mile) after re-installation, I still don't have any leaks or missing paint. If thinking of , IMHO, converting to dot 5 is not worth the effort to flush the system with denatured alcohol, and, you can never really be sure you've flushed it sufficiently. I've seen multiple seal failures in various places on cars that have been converted to dot 5. Is it a poor flush or an incompatible seal, or both? In a new system, I would probably opt for the dot 5. Gordie Bird '62 MGA MKII From don at napanet.net Fri Jun 10 16:14:26 2011 From: don at napanet.net (Don) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:14:26 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Vancouver All-British Field Meet Message-ID: <20110610221437.B250DAEA77@mail.dsl.napanet.net> This is a very clever website article about the recent British car show in Vancouver BC: http://hooniverse.com/2011/06/10/mustnt-complain/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don Scott Calistoga CA USA 1955 MGTF 1962 MGA Mk 2 1973 MGB GT (selling) 1963-7 MGB (seeking) Misc. Japanese cars From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Jun 11 06:07:51 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 13:07:51 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: Message-ID: <998433BE61B74A7EBB8C621CF06E39B2@paul> Natural rubber seals melting with modern hydraulic fluid is said to have been a problem in the 50s http://www.liquid115.com/brake_fluid_for_classic_and_vintage_cars.html but that would have been on cars that were old then, which excludes the MGB and probably the MGA. Castrol LMA exceeds DOT4 and DOT4, apparently http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9012213&contentId=7024043, but not as good as DOT5.1/Super DOT4. It also mixes with DOT4 and DOT5 and is ethylene glycol based so not that different to DOT3, DOT4 and DOT5.1 glycol. One swallow doesn't make a summer. ----- Original Message ----- > Yeah, it may be superstition at this point. But after having the MC seals > dissolve back in the 80s, I have been religious about using Castrol LMA. > Which is rated DOT 4, I believe. It also seems to use a different chemical > base than "generic" DOT 4, so there may actually be something to it. From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Sat Jun 11 06:32:18 2011 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 14:32:18 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: Since over 15 years I use silicone brake fluid in my BGT's brake system. Works well with the combination disks / drums. Never failed and the advantage is, that this fluid is not hygroscopic - i.e. does not attract water. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT - soon to see it's country of origin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Hydraulics > Hi Steve, > The '68 and '72 MGBs have brake master cylinders that are difficult to > rebuild and not continue leaking. Several in my '72 have leaked, rebuilt, > new, > new and rebuilt new. Finally I had White Post sleeve a new one. There is > not > much paint around the MCs. > The sleeved new MC does not leak during warm weather, when I drive the > car > regularly. During the snow and salt season, it does leak a little. > My experience with my TD is that DOT 5 leaked whereas the DOT 3 that it > replaced did not leak. Having spoiled several sets of brake shoes, I had > White > Post sleeve all wheel cylinders, and leaks stopped. > I also think that the answer is to drive the cars more, and to change > fluid > every couple of years. > Bob > > > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: daybell7 at aol.com > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 15:27:43 -0400 (EDT) > > MG'ers, > > My cars will leak (and sometimes dump) hydraulic fluid from the brake, > clutch > master cylinders, and clutch slave cylinders when sitting in the garage > regardless of the age of the component. It seems I am always rebuiding or > replacing the units. Many times if I pump the pedal and drive the problem > disappears. > > I use DOT 3/4 brake fluid, and was wondering if a switch to DOT 5 would > minimize the leaking? I think the real answer is to drive the cars more. > Thanks in advance. > > Steve Hughes > Gainesville, FL > 68 BGT > 72 MGB > 73 TR6 > 59 Morris Minor From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Jun 11 07:05:57 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 14:05:57 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Message-ID: <082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> Surely the only advantage of DOT5/silicone is that is doesn't attack paintwork, but it's disadvantage is that it is more compressible than glycol giving a spongier pedal. Moisture will get into all brake systems regardless of fluid type, and it will lower the boiling point of all of them. Because silicone isn't compatible with ABS generic car parts places like Halfords in the UK don't stock it any more, stocking just DOT4 and DOT4.1, the latter having a higher boiling point than DOT4 or DOT5, and less compressible than DOT5. However it still attacks paintwork as far as I know. ----- Original Message ----- > Since over 15 years I use silicone brake fluid in my BGT's brake system. > Works well with the combination disks / drums. > Never failed and the advantage is, that this fluid is not hygroscopic - > i.e. does not attract water. From ptrmgb at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 06:30:33 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:30:33 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads In-Reply-To: <679568.32681.qm@web39420.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> <679568.32681.qm@web39420.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <74D2EEFF-D67D-476A-9EE5-379CF2F50881@gmail.com> They are not handed. but there is definitely less clearance on the inner side. On Jun 10, 2011, at 7:13 AM, Dan DiBiase wrote: > Hmm, if that were the case for the regular pads, I guess mine (basic OEM-style pads) would have been handed as well but I don't recall that > being the case and mine fit just fine - unless I got lucky and just happened to put the pouters and inners in the correct spots.... > > Dan D > Central NJ USA > '76 MGB Tourer > '65 MGB Tourer (Project) > NAMGBR #5-2328 > http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ > http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ > http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ > http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ > twitter: dandibiase > > > From: Paul Hunt > To: Paul Root ; MG List > Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 4:03:30 AM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] brake pads > > Sounds like the V8 pads or callipers. They have 'handed' pads in that the inner is different to the outer on each calliper, and of course there was the time I bought a set to find three inners and one outer ... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > It seems the Classic Gold pads I bought don't fit. I forced them in enough to > > get the cotter pin in and figured it would seat itself correctly, but no, it > > didn't, the inside pads got stuck, and wouldn't move in the caliper. Measuring > > they are a good .02-.03 inches wider than the stock pads I pulled out. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Jun 11 09:11:42 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 16:11:42 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> <679568.32681.qm@web39420.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <74D2EEFF-D67D-476A-9EE5-379CF2F50881@gmail.com> Message-ID: The pads for the 4-cylinder *aren't* handed, but if you have a handed calliper like the V8, which needs handed pads, then non-handed pads won't fit properly. The fact you have less clearance on one side with non-handed pads (as long as that isn't just corrosion, the products of which take up more volume than the original material) indicates you may have handed callipers. ----- Original Message ----- They are not handed. but there is definitely less clearance on the inner side. From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 11:09:35 2011 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 10:09:35 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads In-Reply-To: References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> <679568.32681.qm@web39420.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <74D2EEFF-D67D-476A-9EE5-379CF2F50881@gmail.com> Message-ID: Since one can use some or all V8 pads in the 4-cylinder cars with standard calipers, perhaps one should say that SOME pads for the 4-cylinder models are handed, while others are not. In the sheet that comes with the Greenstuff pads, the note clearly shows how the pads should be installed with regard to how they are handed. Simon On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > The pads for the 4-cylinder *aren't* handed, but if you have a handed > calliper like the V8, which needs handed pads, then non-handed pads won't > fit properly. The fact you have less clearance on one side with non-handed > pads (as long as that isn't just corrosion, the products of which take up > more volume than the original material) indicates you may have handed > callipers. > > ----- Original Message ----- They are not handed. but there is definitely > less clearance on the inner side. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com From dave at ranteer.com Sat Jun 11 11:17:36 2011 From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 12:17:36 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> <082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> Message-ID: I think we've proven the point: dot 3/4 vs dot 5 is practically a religious argument in intensity lets just say that many strongly believe in the fluid they use. I'd like to see scientific evidence, not empirical or opinions. as far as I can tell, the only true facts so far: dot 3/4 eats paint dot 3/4 is hygroscopic dot 5 is more expensive, harder to find, and harder to get air bubbles out of (these may be empirical) you can't use dot 5 with abs do not mix them did I miss anything? (from the dark er I mean dot 5 side) -------------------------------------------------- From mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com Sat Jun 11 15:19:01 2011 From: mgs4dave at tampabay.rr.com (W. David Houser) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 17:19:01 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MG2011 Message-ID: <14AB0600-2F8C-411B-A27D-096D641C30AB@tampabay.rr.com> Listers, Leaving first light and hope to see several of you out there! Cheers, Dave Houser NEMGTR NAMGAR NAMGBR From ptrmgb at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 15:45:30 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 16:45:30 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] brake pads In-Reply-To: References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> <679568.32681.qm@web39420.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <74D2EEFF-D67D-476A-9EE5-379CF2F50881@gmail.com> Message-ID: <85CB2723-4035-497F-B8E6-3C93A328A236@gmail.com> The calipers are stock. The most likely issue is that Classic Gold took the high end of the measurements of the backing of the pad, and these were a bit bit. I ended up taking 20 seconds an edge to grind the pads to size. One of the outside pads, was a bit tight too, so I ground it. Everything now is working well, we took the car out to seat the pads and everything is good now. On Jun 11, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Simon Matthews wrote: > Since one can use some or all V8 pads in the 4-cylinder cars with > standard calipers, perhaps one should say that SOME pads for the > 4-cylinder models are handed, while others are not. In the sheet that > comes with the Greenstuff pads, the note clearly shows how the pads > should be installed with regard to how they are handed. > > Simon > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Paul Hunt > wrote: >> The pads for the 4-cylinder *aren't* handed, but if you have a handed >> calliper like the V8, which needs handed pads, then non-handed pads won't >> fit properly. The fact you have less clearance on one side with non-handed >> pads (as long as that isn't just corrosion, the products of which take up >> more volume than the original material) indicates you may have handed >> callipers. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- They are not handed. but there is definitely >> less clearance on the inner side. >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From ptrmgb at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 15:47:13 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 16:47:13 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> <082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> Message-ID: <5CCD6329-3B5D-4E8F-8C85-9F8BF21E59E1@gmail.com> On my new bottle of LMA it proudly says that its an all new fully synthetic formula and it works on ABS systems. So it's not the stuff we all used to use. On Jun 11, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Dave wrote: > I think we've proven the point: dot 3/4 vs dot 5 is practically a religious argument in intensity > > lets just say that many strongly believe in the fluid they use. > > I'd like to see scientific evidence, not empirical or opinions. > > as far as I can tell, the only true facts so far: > > dot 3/4 eats paint > dot 3/4 is hygroscopic > dot 5 is more expensive, harder to find, and harder to get air bubbles out of (these may be empirical) > you can't use dot 5 with abs > do not mix them > > did I miss anything? > > (from the dark er I mean dot 5 side) > > -------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From strovato at optonline.net Sat Jun 11 19:33:47 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 21:33:47 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: <5CCD6329-3B5D-4E8F-8C85-9F8BF21E59E1@gmail.com> References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> <082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> <5CCD6329-3B5D-4E8F-8C85-9F8BF21E59E1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0LMN00B1XLOPCZ90@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> This was posted on another list: I asked Castrol: Brake fluid question: What is the difference between Castrol Brake Fluid labeled LMA DOT 4 and Castrol LMA Synthetic? Is it true that all DOT 4 is synthetic? Their answer: Thank you for contacting Castrol North America, Castrol GTLMA now has a higher wet boiling point and the product label has been changed. The product formula has not been changed; Castrol GTLMA has always been a fully synthetic brake fluid. The wet boiling point has increased from 3110F to 3290F (1550C to 1690C). Castrol Consumer Relations Then I asked: How do you raise the boiling point without changing the product formula? Their Answer: Thank you for contacting Castrol, The formula has been improved to increase the wet boiling point. The newer GTLMA bottles state ''New Formula'', to make you aware of this. The formulas are similar and completely compatible. The base fluid type used has not changed. Castrol GTLMA was always synthetic, having used the same base fluid. The base fluid and additive formula was adjusted to make the improvement. Castrol Consumer Relations At 05:47 PM 6/11/2011, Paul Root wrote: >On my new bottle of LMA it proudly says that its an all new fully synthetic >formula and it works on ABS systems. > >So it's not the stuff we all used to use. From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Sun Jun 12 02:34:36 2011 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:34:36 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> <082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> Message-ID: <8E9AF7954F6142B5A5A0D6418BFD732D@uw471de61b465c> You're quite right Paul. The difference is , that moisture will not mix with the fluid as DOT 3 and 4 will do. About the scalding the paint - yes you're right again. This is my experience, though the damage is not as bad as DOT3 and DOT4. Cheers, Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hunt" Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Hydraulics > Surely the only advantage of DOT5/silicone is that is doesn't attack > paintwork, but it's disadvantage is that it is more compressible than > glycol giving a spongier pedal. Moisture will get into all brake systems > regardless of fluid type, and it will lower the boiling point of all of > them. Because silicone isn't compatible with ABS generic car parts places > like Halfords in the UK don't stock it any more, stocking just DOT4 and > DOT4.1, the latter having a higher boiling point than DOT4 or DOT5, and > less compressible than DOT5. However it still attacks paintwork as far as > I know. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Since over 15 years I use silicone brake fluid in my BGT's brake system. >> Works well with the combination disks / drums. >> Never failed and the advantage is, that this fluid is not hygroscopic - >> i.e. does not attract water. From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Sun Jun 12 02:37:24 2011 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:37:24 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com><082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> Message-ID: <821D08DBA83344BAB728F316521A1C3A@uw471de61b465c> Disagree, that DOT5 is more difficult to bleed. Maybe in power assisted systems, which I have not touched up to now. Cheers, Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" To: Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Hydraulics >I think we've proven the point: dot 3/4 vs dot 5 is practically a religious >argument in intensity > > lets just say that many strongly believe in the fluid they use. > > I'd like to see scientific evidence, not empirical or opinions. > > as far as I can tell, the only true facts so far: > > dot 3/4 eats paint > dot 3/4 is hygroscopic > dot 5 is more expensive, harder to find, and harder to get air bubbles out > of (these may be empirical) > you can't use dot 5 with abs > do not mix them > > did I miss anything? > > (from the dark er I mean dot 5 side) From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Jun 12 03:27:40 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:27:40 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com><082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> <5CCD6329-3B5D-4E8F-8C85-9F8BF21E59E1@gmail.com> Message-ID: That's because it isn't silicone like DOT5, but glycol based like DOT3, 4 and 5.1. Silicone not being hygroscopic is not relevant as a hydraulic system will absorb moisture regardless of the fluid used, which is why silicone has dry and wet boiling points quoted the same as non-silicone, and the wet is the same percentage lower than the dry as for non-silicone fluids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_5). The temperatures quoted by Castrol should read 310 F to 329 F (155 C to 169 C) of course :o) However they are the wet boiling points and not the dry, see http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_GTLMABrakeFluid.pdf which quotes 509F/265C dry and 311F/155C wet. ----- Original Message ----- > On my new bottle of LMA it proudly says that its an all new fully > synthetic > formula and it works on ABS systems. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sun Jun 12 03:08:52 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:08:52 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com><082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> Message-ID: <9FF22A3F87764072B71360A9868EC407@paul> Erm, DOT5.1 is better than any of them ... ----- Original Message ----- > did I miss anything? From strovato at optonline.net Sun Jun 12 08:50:03 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:50:03 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Hydraulics In-Reply-To: References: <20110610.095832.12939.0@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> <082CBD25F1044B95A92653F93A356FA4@paul> <5CCD6329-3B5D-4E8F-8C85-9F8BF21E59E1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0LMO002O9MLK8O00@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Yes, that last zero was supposed to be a "degree" symbol, but I guess it became a zero after several cut and paste operations. -Steve At 05:27 AM 6/12/2011, Paul Hunt wrote: >The temperatures quoted by Castrol should read 310 F to 329 F (155 C >to 169 C) of course :o) However they are the wet boiling points >and not the dry, see >http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_GTLMABrakeFluid.pdf >which quotes 509F/265C dry and 311F/155C wet. From matt.lists at trebelhorn.com Mon Jun 13 12:09:23 2011 From: matt.lists at trebelhorn.com (Matt Trebelhorn) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 14:09:23 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB-GT tire pressure sticker Message-ID: <0D3A50D0-D6FD-4666-AFB0-D8A2BECE245A@trebelhorn.com> I ended up with a GT sticker in addition to the proper one for my '70 tourer. This is the sticker that goes on the drivers' door, if I remember correctly. I don't need it. $1 and it's yours, shipping included (within the U.S.). Matt From ptrmgb at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 08:49:15 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:49:15 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] windshields Message-ID: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> I'm thinking I'm going to replace my windshield this year. It's got alot of little pock marks and one chip. And the seal leaks (on the rare occasion I'm caught out in the rain. I've already got all the rubber bits. There are 4 windshields for the MGB from Moss. Original and Modified, tinted and untinted. I want tinted. Now what exactly is the modified corner? It says it's recessed to minimize breakage? The other question is cost. The aftermarket is $106, and the Pilkington is $349. So a company buys the Triplex name and charges 3 times the cost? Of course, the aftermarket doesn't have modified corners. I'm thinking I might be better off going to a local autoglass company. Any advise out there? Paul. From awhitema at panix.com Tue Jun 14 09:42:16 2011 From: awhitema at panix.com (Aaron Whiteman) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:42:16 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] windshields In-Reply-To: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> References: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6B3285D1-93B7-4C33-A478-257A26F6B0E6@panix.com> On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Paul Root wrote: > The other question is cost. The aftermarket is $106, and the Pilkington is > $349. So a company buys the Triplex name and charges 3 times the cost? Pilkington didn't buy the Triplex name. Pilkington bought the company that made Triplex glass (and spent years doing so before they finally gained controlling interest before 1967, the googles say 1965). That said, my 2006 Subaru had great glass. Now, it has glass from a local autoglass company because my insurance company wouldn't pay for OEM (and I couldn't afford a $700 windscreen at the time). The difference is readily apparent. > Of course, the aftermarket doesn't have modified corners. > > I'm thinking I might be better off going to a local autoglass company. Be sure to look through it first, the strongly curved glass of the MGB screen will make distortion affects much worse, if the flaws in my new Subaru glass are anything to go by. It's anecdotal, but my experience is that OEM glass tends to be higher quality. Worth the price? Maybe not, but when the delta is only $250, it would be worth it to me. -- Aaron From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 14 09:43:51 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:43:51 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] windshields References: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1CF166E8BF3D4DB0B2C7AEB1E9B483A2@paul> On my replacement screen the bottom corners were cut back slightly. Fits the same frame and rubber, in those corners you can see the cut back edge as it appears to be only just covered by the rubber. Being in the UK and going on organised runs it sees plenty of rain. The only leaks *are* in those corners, very slight, but appear to be coming under the rubber rather than between rubber and glass. Triplex came out of Pilkington in 1923, Pilkington itself dating back to 1826, the two companies concentrating on different product and market areas. I think it more likely that the after-market is 'cheap', with all that that implies. You pays your money ... PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Now what exactly is the modified corner? It says it's recessed to minimize > breakage? From ptrmgb at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 10:10:39 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:10:39 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] windshields In-Reply-To: <6B3285D1-93B7-4C33-A478-257A26F6B0E6@panix.com> References: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> <6B3285D1-93B7-4C33-A478-257A26F6B0E6@panix.com> Message-ID: <0436B304-ECF1-406E-8898-91E3F0A7F3D5@gmail.com> On Jun 14, 2011, at 10:42 AM, Aaron Whiteman wrote: > On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Paul Root wrote: > >> The other question is cost. The aftermarket is $106, and the Pilkington is >> $349. So a company buys the Triplex name and charges 3 times the cost? > > Pilkington didn't buy the Triplex name. Pilkington bought the company that > made Triplex glass (and spent years doing so before they finally gained > controlling interest before 1967, the googles say 1965). I was going by the Moss 'info' button. Saying that Pilkington bought the tooling and name rig > > That said, my 2006 Subaru had great glass. Now, it has glass from a local > autoglass company because my insurance company wouldn't pay for OEM (and I > couldn't afford a $700 windscreen at the time). The difference is readily > apparent. This is good information, I had my 1999 Subaru glass replaced last summer. I haven't noticed any distortion. > >> Of course, the aftermarket doesn't have modified corners. >> >> I'm thinking I might be better off going to a local autoglass company. > > Be sure to look through it first, the strongly curved glass of the MGB screen > will make distortion affects much worse, if the flaws in my new Subaru glass > are anything to go by. It's anecdotal, but my experience is that OEM glass > tends to be higher quality. Worth the price? Maybe not, but when the delta > is only $250, it would be worth it to me. Good advice, thanks. Paul. From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 14 09:59:51 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:59:51 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] windshields In-Reply-To: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hmm. I replaced my windshield because it was pitted, chipped and had some wiper scrapes. Two years later, it was pitted, chipped and had wiper scrapes. I don't know how that helps you -- just an observation. I was rather shocked at how "soft" the surface of the new glass was, is all. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/14/11 7:49 AM, Paul Root at ptrmgb at gmail.com wrote: > I'm thinking I'm going to replace my windshield this year. It's got alot of > little pock marks and one chip. And the seal leaks (on the rare occasion I'm > caught out in the rain. I've already got all the rubber bits. > > There are 4 windshields for the MGB from Moss. Original and Modified, tinted > and untinted. > > I want tinted. > > Now what exactly is the modified corner? It says it's recessed to minimize > breakage? > > The other question is cost. The aftermarket is $106, and the Pilkington is > $349. So a company buys the Triplex name and charges 3 times the cost? > > Of course, the aftermarket doesn't have modified corners. > > I'm thinking I might be better off going to a local autoglass company. > > Any advise out there? > > Paul. > _______________________________________________ From dcouncill at msubillings.edu Tue Jun 14 14:11:11 2011 From: dcouncill at msubillings.edu (Councill, David) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:11:11 +0000 Subject: [Mgs] windshields In-Reply-To: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> References: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure the aftermarket ones are still available, at least from Moss. The Triplex ones have increased in price this year from about $250 to $350. I had the windshield replaced on my 64B using Safelite - their price includes installation but typically runs near the cost of ordering the windshield, in this case right at $350 installed. I had balked doing the windshields but after Safelite replaced my land Rover windshield at the princely sum of $1000, the MG windshields seem cheap. Next up is my 67BGT which has a big air pocket in the glass on the passenger side. This job will also cost about $350 installed (not counting the seals and metal trim which I ordered from Moss in anticipation of the job). David Councill 64 B 67 BGT 72 B -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Paul Root Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 8:49 AM To: MG List Subject: [Mgs] windshields I'm thinking I'm going to replace my windshield this year. It's got alot of little pock marks and one chip. And the seal leaks (on the rare occasion I'm caught out in the rain. I've already got all the rubber bits. There are 4 windshields for the MGB from Moss. Original and Modified, tinted and untinted. I want tinted. Now what exactly is the modified corner? It says it's recessed to minimize breakage? The other question is cost. The aftermarket is $106, and the Pilkington is $349. So a company buys the Triplex name and charges 3 times the cost? Of course, the aftermarket doesn't have modified corners. I'm thinking I might be better off going to a local autoglass company. Any advise out there? Paul. From mgbob at juno.com Tue Jun 14 14:11:01 2011 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:11:01 GMT Subject: [Mgs] windshields Message-ID: <20110614.161101.628.5@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Paul Root" , "MG List" Subject: Re: [Mgs] windshields Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:43:51 +0100 Spring, a year ago, I replaced the windscreen of my GT. It was clear, aftermarket glass that was in the car when I bought it, in 1994. In the 45,000 miles I drove behind that glass, it got so pitted that the car was almost undriveable in setting sun or night time conditions. There was a distortion on the passenger side that did not affect the driver's view of the road but it was distracting to the passenger. Alas, I don't have it now so I cannot tell you its brand as one to avoid. The replacement was a Triplex tinted, NOS that I bought a few years back., and saved it for future use. This is ever so much nicer to drive behind. It's tinted and free of distortion, a far nicer piece of glass. The Triplex is thicker, too. I do not know that this is true, but I have heard it said that today's glass is thinner and that the rubber has smaller groove for the glass. It was said, a year ago, that MacGregor had rubber for the thicker glass. That may or may not be so, but after waiting six months for the back order, I bought Moss's rubber and set to work. Installation was more difficult that I expected. It's no treat for open cars, but I expected the GT to be easier. It's not, at least with this glass and this rubber and the fiddly refitting of the aluminium trim. But it's all done, and very nice. The cabin is quieter and there are no leaks. Bob On my replacement screen the bottom corners were cut back slightly. Fits the same frame and rubber, in those corners you can see the cut back edge as it appears to be only just covered by the rubber. Being in the UK and going on organised runs it sees plenty of rain. The only leaks *are* in those corners, very slight, but appear to be coming under the rubber rather than between rubber and glass. Triplex came out of Pilkington in 1923, Pilkington itself dating back to 1826, the two companies concentrating on different product and market areas. I think it more likely that the after-market is 'cheap', with all that that implies. You pays your money ... PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Now what exactly is the modified corner? It says it's recessed to minimize > breakage? _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From arundell at ghs.com.au Tue Jun 14 14:44:16 2011 From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 06:44:16 +1000 Subject: [Mgs] windshields In-Reply-To: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> References: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> Message-ID: So long as the after market version has a Safety Standards stamp, AS. BS, DIN, TUV of similar you will be legal. The Pilkington one is only dearer because of the name..... Murray Arundell Brisbane Aus (In the glass industry...) On 15/06/2011, at 12:49 AM, Paul Root wrote: > I'm thinking I'm going to replace my windshield this year. It's got alot of > little pock marks and one chip. And the seal leaks (on the rare occasion I'm > caught out in the rain. I've already got all the rubber bits. > > There are 4 windshields for the MGB from Moss. Original and Modified, tinted > and untinted. > > I want tinted. > > Now what exactly is the modified corner? It says it's recessed to minimize > breakage? > > The other question is cost. The aftermarket is $106, and the Pilkington is > $349. So a company buys the Triplex name and charges 3 times the cost? > > Of course, the aftermarket doesn't have modified corners. > > I'm thinking I might be better off going to a local autoglass company. > > Any advise out there? > > Paul. > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au > Murray G. Arundell Managing Director GHS Pty Ltd Glaziers Hardware Supplies Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3277 1255 Fax: +617 3875 1256 Email: arundell at ghs.com.au From arundell at ghs.com.au Tue Jun 14 14:45:47 2011 From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 06:45:47 +1000 Subject: [Mgs] windshields In-Reply-To: <6B3285D1-93B7-4C33-A478-257A26F6B0E6@panix.com> References: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> <6B3285D1-93B7-4C33-A478-257A26F6B0E6@panix.com> Message-ID: <8F40B217-8B7A-4A2D-90B6-C83349057DEA@ghs.com.au> Aaron, Actually the OEM glass is NOT made to a higher standard..... Its simply sold at a higher price. Don't be fooled... Murray Arundell On 15/06/2011, at 1:42 AM, Aaron Whiteman wrote: > On Jun 14, 2011, at 7:49 AM, Paul Root wrote: > >> The other question is cost. The aftermarket is $106, and the Pilkington is >> $349. So a company buys the Triplex name and charges 3 times the cost? > > Pilkington didn't buy the Triplex name. Pilkington bought the company that > made Triplex glass (and spent years doing so before they finally gained > controlling interest before 1967, the googles say 1965). > > That said, my 2006 Subaru had great glass. Now, it has glass from a local > autoglass company because my insurance company wouldn't pay for OEM (and I > couldn't afford a $700 windscreen at the time). The difference is readily > apparent. > >> Of course, the aftermarket doesn't have modified corners. >> >> I'm thinking I might be better off going to a local autoglass company. > > Be sure to look through it first, the strongly curved glass of the MGB screen > will make distortion affects much worse, if the flaws in my new Subaru glass > are anything to go by. It's anecdotal, but my experience is that OEM glass > tends to be higher quality. Worth the price? Maybe not, but when the delta > is only $250, it would be worth it to me. > > -- > Aaron > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au > Murray G. Arundell Managing Director GHS Pty Ltd Glaziers Hardware Supplies Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3277 1255 Fax: +617 3875 1256 Email: arundell at ghs.com.au From redscirocco at hotmail.com Wed Jun 15 09:20:05 2011 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:20:05 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] British car festival this weekend Message-ID: I believe this is organized by the same folks who do the British Invasion in Stowe. http://tanglewoodmotorcarfestival.com/ http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/06/15/british-car-show-invades-the-be rkshire-hills/ From eugeneb at nni.com Wed Jun 15 13:07:13 2011 From: eugeneb at nni.com (Eugene Balinski) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:07:13 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] British car festival this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is going to be a great show. The Boston Area MG club is heading there Friday. Hope to see you all there.. Gene Balinski 80 B On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:20:05 -0400 Mike Eldred wrote: > I believe this is organized by the same folks who do the > British Invasion in > Stowe. > > http://tanglewoodmotorcarfestival.com/ > > http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/06/15/british-car-show-invades-the-be > rkshire-hills/ > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/eugeneb at nni.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Web mail provided by NuNet, Inc. The Premier National provider. http://www.nni.com/ From barrie at look.ca Wed Jun 15 12:43:16 2011 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:43:16 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] windshields In-Reply-To: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> References: <390F4640-2A1F-4F85-8182-74CA10CDAFB6@gmail.com> Message-ID: I went to a local glass shop and they said they could put my rear (GT) window in as well as the windscreen. I said the windscreen was rather grotty so they said "no bother" and they fitted a new one. I asked how come it was no problem and they said they just ordered it from their supplier and it came in next day !!!! They said "no problem" !! Great quality - no distortion. Put Dum-Dum under your rubber seal and you will never get a leak At 10:49 AM 6/14/2011, Paul Root wrote: >I'm thinking I'm going to replace my windshield this year. It's got alot of >little pock marks and one chip. And the seal leaks (on the rare occasion I'm >caught out in the rain. I've already got all the rubber bits. > >There are 4 windshields for the MGB from Moss. Original and Modified, tinted >and untinted. > >I want tinted. > >Now what exactly is the modified corner? It says it's recessed to minimize >breakage? > >The other question is cost. The aftermarket is $106, and the Pilkington is >$349. So a company buys the Triplex name and charges 3 times the cost? > >Of course, the aftermarket doesn't have modified corners. > >I'm thinking I might be better off going to a local autoglass company. > >Any advise out there? > >Paul. >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/barrie at look.ca Regards Barrie barrie at look.ca 705-721-9060 From eric at erickson.on.net Thu Jun 16 10:11:41 2011 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric Erickson) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 01:41:41 +0930 Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> Message-ID: I keep studying this video and I am really not quite sure that my turn into this corner caused this incident. It is the third lap I have run at this racetrack since 2006 - so I was certainly out of practice, but to have the rear tyres let go like that was really unexpected. Any thoughts? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eaUaoP-ME From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 11:01:50 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> Message-ID: <864479.28638.qm@web39401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wow, glad you are okay and that the damage was minimal! And yes, you do need to relocate the mic (that from one of the hillclimb vids)... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Eric Erickson To: MG List Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 12:11:41 PM Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall I keep studying this video and I am really not quite sure that my turn into this corner caused this incident. It is the third lap I have run at this racetrack since 2006 - so I was certainly out of practice, but to have the rear tyres let go like that was really unexpected. Any thoughts? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eaUaoP-ME _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From ptrmgb at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 12:35:36 2011 From: ptrmgb at gmail.com (Paul Root) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:35:36 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> Message-ID: <3E15139A-6A7C-42B9-8BEB-A72BF313DEDF@gmail.com> Well, it was some form of snap oversteer. You must have lifted off throttle. Did you not brake enough setting up for that turn? On Jun 16, 2011, at 11:11 AM, Eric Erickson wrote: > I keep studying this video and I am really not quite sure that my turn into > this corner caused this incident. > > It is the third lap I have run at this racetrack since 2006 - so I was > certainly out of practice, but to have the rear tyres let go like that was > really unexpected. > > Any thoughts? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eaUaoP-ME > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/ptrmgb at gmail.com From barneymg at mgaguru.com Thu Jun 16 17:08:45 2011 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 18:08:45 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> Message-ID: <621926.25286.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Yup, I got the answer. Nice video. You were driving, so it's your fault. The car doesn't handle well, and you didn't handle the cantankerous car well either. It's one of those things where you have to drive whatever is put in your hands, and fix the handling problem later. It starts in the first turn at the 8-second mark when you get the LR tire off the ground, followed immediately by oversteer and squeal from the overloaded RR tire. You caught that one, tturned the steering wheel quickly right to keep the nose going in the right direction, and got your foot right back on the throttle to keep it straight. But you should have gotten the message from that trick. On the next turn you got the same thing at the 38 second mark, a little body roll, LR tire up, oversteer, and RR tire squeal as it goes sideways. You caught that one too, turned the steering wheel quickly right to keep the nose going in the right direction, but you over did the steering correction, didn't bring the wheel back soon enough, and didn't put the throttle down, so you got immediate and accentuated oversteer in the other direction (fish tail). When that gets out of hand you're going backward, and the game is over. You have a real quick autocross car there that will turn in quick and oversteer on demand, but that's not the fastest way around a long curve. What you need is more front sway bar (or less rear sway bar) intending to keep the inside rear tire on the pavement to prevent overloading the outside rear tire. If you over do the front sway bar you can end up with understeer and push in the corners, also not the fastest way around the track. For road racing you want near neutral steering for the highest speed in a long constant radius turn. Then lifting off the throttle makes it turn in better at the entry point, and back on the throttle kills the oversteer and drives the front end to the outside of the curve. (Just don't step too hard on the throttle when one rear tire is off the ground). Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude (and a house full of autocross trophies) http://MGAguru.com At 01:41 AM 6/17/2011 +0930, Eric Erickson wrote: >I keep studying this video and I am really not quite sure that my turn into >this corner caused this incident. > >It is the third lap I have run at this racetrack since 2006 - so I was >certainly out of practice, but to have the rear tyres let go like that was >really unexpected. > >Any thoughts? > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eaUaoP-ME From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 16 16:49:17 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:49:17 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmmm... Braked late and hard, unloading the rear tires... Apexed too early, and the rear couldn't hold the tight line, and drifted out... I don't know what you were doing when it suddenly caught and overcorrected, but I think you were already in trouble, because you really wanted a little throttle to transfer weight rearward, but throttle would have put you off the road anyway, nose-first in that case... "Exceeded the friction circle" of the rear tires, at any rate. Glad it wasn't too serious. That seems like quite a long straight on that track. Reminded me of turn 1 at Willow Springs -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/16/11 9:11 AM, Eric Erickson at eric at erickson.on.net wrote: > I keep studying this video and I am really not quite sure that my turn into > this corner caused this incident. > > It is the third lap I have run at this racetrack since 2006 - so I was > certainly out of practice, but to have the rear tyres let go like that was > really unexpected. > > Any thoughts? From ejrussell at mebtel.net Thu Jun 16 19:02:10 2011 From: ejrussell at mebtel.net (Eric J Russell) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:02:10 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F402E6255C044ABB5C4271E2DE4EDF5@EricJRussellPC> Can you recollect what you were doing with the throttle? Sudden off-throttle over steer? Eric Russell Mebane, NC http://home.mebtel.net/~ejrussell ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eric Erickson > To: MG List > Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall > I keep studying this video and I am really not quite sure that my turn > into > this corner caused this incident. > > It is the third lap I have run at this racetrack since 2006 - so I was > certainly out of practice, but to have the rear tyres let go like that was > really unexpected. > > Any thoughts? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eaUaoP-ME From don at napanet.net Fri Jun 17 01:42:03 2011 From: don at napanet.net (Don) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:42:03 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MG Reno show Message-ID: <20110617074256.DCEFEB01E1@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Just got back from Reno where we went to the big MG car event. On the way there on Wednesday afternoon, we were caught in the worst traffic jam I have ever experienced. We (wife and me) were unfortunate victims of the horrible traffic jam caused by road construction on Hwy 80 going into Reno. There was a stop-and-go situation for about 30 miles. I thought I was so smart- I had driven my 2001 Miata SE, thinking the trip there would be comfortable and stress-free. Wrong. The traffic jam was horrible and the ambient temperature was warm. After about ten miles of crawling, stop and go, the clutch hydraulics quit working. Clutch was engaged, would not release. I limped for several miles not being able to disengage the clutch, would start it in gear and just go slow. A K-rail separated the divided highway and there were no places to pull off safely, so seemed like it would be impossible to get help. There were numerous times I had to stop completely in the roadway, so would just shut the engine off, and restart in 1st or 2nd and crawl some more. I was able to pull off the road about 20 miles short of Reno at the little village of Floriston where there was an exit, and an exit on the westbound side of Hwy 80 as well. So at least it was safe and accessible to a tow truck there. We ended up waiting two hours for AAA towing. In the time we waited, the car and the outside temperature both cooled off, and the clutch regained its function. But the traffic was still jammed out on the freeway, so I couldn't just drive it into Reno as the conditions would surely have caused the clutch to fail again. Strangely, the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder was/is fine. Anyway, thank God for cell phones and AAA. Got a nice flatbed truck transport into Reno, right to the hotel. I took a chance and didn't do any repairs or take it to a shop. Drove up 8 stories of the hotel parking garage, and the clutch was fine. Next day, drove it to the MG show outside of Reno and it worked fine. The big test was the 200 mile drive home. Since I didn't get caught in traffic where I would have to use the clutch, it worked fine, and I made it home. I will rebuild or replace the clutch hydraulics of course. I can't help thinking the MG gods (or demons) had something to do with this happening to me, since this clutch system is a copy of that used on MGs. Here are a few photos of the Miata broken down with smiling wife, the traffic jam on Hwy 80, and the great MG car show. I got a couple pics of Andy Preston and his fabulous MGA coupe (one of only 4 at the show). Another car that I found to be outstanding was a black '62 MGA Mk 2 De Luxe. There were more MGTFs than I have ever seen in my life, and all of them were gorgeous. The cars that came from all over the US and Canada astounded me for the owners' dedication and devotion to the marque. And some of the preserved cars and original owner cars were really amazing to see. I didn't take enough photos, and my choice of subjects was limited. I'm sure there will be much better pics of the show than this, as my camera seemed to want to capture mainly early MGBs that were done to a high standard, as that seems to be my current obsession. https://picasaweb.google.com/104973305347633073496/MGsReno?authkey=Gv1sRgCPazmbqhpYarJw --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don Scott Calistoga CA USA 1955 MGTF 1962 MGA Mk 2 1973 MGB GT (selling) 1963-7 MGB (seeking) Misc. Japanese cars From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Fri Jun 17 02:53:32 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:53:32 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] MG Reno show References: <20110617074256.DCEFEB01E1@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: <4D42232A576748F2B97888128EFB9809@paul> Very strange. Did you get the same pressure as normal from the pedal? I can only think it was the pressure seal in the master that was leaking back with the higher engine compartment temperature, that wouldn't cause any fluid loss. Replacing just the seals in that might be a false economy. ----- Original Message ----- > ... In the time we waited, the car and the outside > temperature both cooled off, and the clutch regained its > function. From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 06:12:43 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 05:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] MG Reno show In-Reply-To: <20110617074256.DCEFEB01E1@mail.dsl.napanet.net> References: <20110617074256.DCEFEB01E1@mail.dsl.napanet.net> Message-ID: <795196.83771.qm@web39410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don, good pics. And yes, the cause of your breakdown was absolutely a message from the MG gods for driving the Miata instead of the MG!! ;-) Did you see any broken-down MG's in the traffic? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From eric at erickson.on.net Fri Jun 17 08:01:25 2011 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric Erickson) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:31:25 +0930 Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: <621926.25286.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> <621926.25286.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Barney and all who have commented - hopefully the following addresses the issues you raise., On 17/06/2011, at 8:38 AM, Barney Gaylord wrote: > Yup, I got the answer. Nice video. You were driving, so it's your fault. The car doesn't handle well, and you didn't handle the cantankerous car well either. It's one of those things where you have to drive whatever is put in your hands, and fix the handling problem later. > > It starts in the first turn at the 8-second mark when you get the LR tire off the ground, followed immediately by oversteer and squeal from the overloaded RR tire. You caught that one, tturned the steering wheel quickly right to keep the nose going in the right direction, and got your foot right back on the throttle to keep it straight. But you should have gotten the message from that trick. On the next turn you got the same thing at the 38 second mark, a little body roll, LR tire up, oversteer, and RR tire squeal as it goes sideways. You caught that one too, turned the steering wheel quickly right to keep the nose going in the right direction, but you over did the steering correction, didn't bring the wheel back soon enough, and didn't put the throttle down, so you got immediate and accentuated oversteer in the other direction (fish tail). When that gets out of hand you're going backward, and the game is over. > > You have a real quick autocross car there that will turn in quick and oversteer on demand, but that's not the fastest way around a long curve. What you need is more front sway bar (or less rear sway bar) intending to keep the inside rear tire on the pavement to prevent overloading the outside rear tire. If you over do the front sway bar you can end up with understeer and push in the corners, also not the fastest way around the track. For road racing you want near neutral steering for the highest speed in a long constant radius turn. Then lifting off the throttle makes it turn in better at the entry point, and back on the throttle kills the oversteer and drives the front end to the outside of the curve. (Just don't step too hard on the throttle when one rear tire is off the ground). > Ouch! ;-) Thanks for the analysis. That hill and dip beyond is always a bit scary at the end of that long straight and on that lap I would have lifted and would have been feathering the throttle - the idea would have been to accelerate once the car had apexed, down the hill. The apex is a little further around the corner so it appears I had entered a little early (I was still "learning" the track). My car is a little down on power and that always makes me take a few additional risks (OK... some call it "over drive" ;-) I often catch other cars, when I am down on power, by braking a little later and getting through the twisty bits faster, as Barney has spotted.... I PUSH. At that time I was chasing a lovely and very quick bugeye Sprite, thinking if I could keep up with him then I must be doing decent lap times. I can remember thinking that I wasn't going to back off too much for that corner - and I certainly wasn't going to brake. I had lower pressure than normal in my rear tyres in an attempt to get them to warm up faster on the cold track on a very cold morning. At this time that is what I am putting down to right now the way the rear end broke away so easily. I thought I had caught it for a moment but, as they say, it all happened rather quickly from that point. I was more surprised than anything. It would have been easier to analyse what I was doing throttle-wise is the audio was better but as the guys at the Vio-POV camera place have now confirmed, the "internal" microphone is NOT disconnected when an "external" microphone is plugged in - which in my experience usually happens. The external mic was taped to the back of my seat so there should not have been that wind noise... I now know what to do to fix that. I am still a little annoyed. ;-) It will be a learning experience. Eric From eric at erickson.on.net Fri Jun 17 08:05:54 2011 From: eric at erickson.on.net (Eric Erickson) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 23:35:54 +0930 Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: <621926.25286.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <77490922-A911-4F7D-B1FB-5A357782B8B6@gmail.com> <78A8B023BF1B4CFA8392335E521F688A@paul> <621926.25286.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <493247F2-F1DE-46A4-9AF3-9D07A252A066@erickson.on.net> And this is what I was doing the next day.. http://vimeo.com/25189487 From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 17 10:49:08 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 09:49:08 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Tagged a tyrewall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Low rear tire pressures... Yeah, that's just what it looked like. "Oversteer city" on an MGB... -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/17/11 7:01 AM, Eric Erickson at eric at erickson.on.net wrote: >> > > Ouch! ;-) Thanks for the analysis. > > That hill and dip beyond is always a bit scary at the end of that long > straight and on that lap I would have lifted and would have been feathering > the throttle - the idea would have been to accelerate once the car had apexed, > down the hill. The apex is a little further around the corner so it appears I > had entered a little early (I was still "learning" the track). > > My car is a little down on power and that always makes me take a few > additional risks (OK... some call it "over drive" ;-) I often catch other > cars, when I am down on power, by braking a little later and getting through > the twisty bits faster, as Barney has spotted.... I PUSH. At that time I was > chasing a lovely and very quick bugeye Sprite, thinking if I could keep up > with him then I must be doing decent lap times. I can remember thinking that > I wasn't going to back off too much for that corner - and I certainly wasn't > going to brake. > > I had lower pressure than normal in my rear tyres in an attempt to get them to > warm up faster on the cold track on a very cold morning. At this time that is > what I am putting down to right now the way the rear end broke away so easily. > I thought I had caught it for a moment but, as they say, it all happened > rather quickly from that point. I was more surprised than anything. > > It would have been easier to analyse what I was doing throttle-wise is the > audio was better but as the guys at the Vio-POV camera place have now > confirmed, the "internal" microphone is NOT disconnected when an "external" > microphone is plugged in - which in my experience usually happens. The > external mic was taped to the back of my seat so there should not have been > that wind noise... I now know what to do to fix that. > > I am still a little annoyed. ;-) It will be a learning experience. > > > > Eric From martin at virtual-motors.com Fri Jun 17 11:12:34 2011 From: martin at virtual-motors.com (martin at virtual-motors.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:12:34 -0600 Subject: [Mgs] liscense plate restoraation Message-ID: Has anyone had experience or recommendation with antique restoration? I googled and there are a lot. But which one is good? From pete_groh at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 12:51:22 2011 From: pete_groh at yahoo.com (Pete Groh) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] MG sign, Neon on e-bay (FL) Item number: 190544023523 Message-ID: <435334.91230.qm@web111619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Surf on e-bay and this sign caught my eye. I purchases a 7 foot Dealership sign, MG, and Austin on the bottom. I did not know they also made a Neon sign. http://cgi.ebay.com/MG-Dealer-Neon-Sign-/190544023523?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5d4f0fe3 Pete Groh (KeyGuy) Ellicott City MD From kger at plex.com Fri Jun 17 13:34:55 2011 From: kger at plex.com (Keith G.) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:34:55 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Fuel pump replacement--connection questions In-Reply-To: <53D6B4E62650464D8CD91097FFF23B80@scloffice> References: <4DEFE6D8.18779.18D0027@kger.plex.com>, <53D6B4E62650464D8CD91097FFF23B80@scloffice> Message-ID: <4DFBAC5F.4043.10A5AAE5@kger.plex.com> I should have guessed that my situation is not all that uncommon. Thanks for the pointer. -- Keith G. ------------------------------ On Wednesday, June 08, 2011 at 18:16, Michael Singleton wrote: > Look at Mossmotors.com under P/N 376-108. Should be all the bits you need > for $50. > > > Michael Singleton > Sportscars Ltd > 10170 Croydon Way > Suite M > Sacramento, CA 95826 > > (916)366-0330 > mike at sportscarslimited.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Keith G. > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 2:17 PM > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Fuel pump replacement--connection questions > > I'm replacing a junky plastic fuel pump (that cracked and started leaking > profusely) on my '79 B with a factory-style pump. I'm looking for ideas on > how to get the new pump hooked up. > > The problem is that the previous pump was connected with rubber hoses > clamped over protruding nubs on the pump. The new pump has those threaded > holes for inset connectors. > I can't find my Haynes manual at the moment, so I don't have any reference > photos, but that's what I assume. (I envision connectors similar to those > used at the ends of the brake lines.) I'm guessing that from the factory, > the hard fuel lines ran all the way to the pump. Now I'm missing the last > few inches of the hard lines, and the threaded connectors. > > So how should I proceed from here? > > > -- > Keith G. > 1979 B > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net From dave at ranteer.com Fri Jun 17 14:19:56 2011 From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:19:56 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] MG sign, Neon on e-bay (FL) Item number: 190544023523 In-Reply-To: <435334.91230.qm@web111619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <435334.91230.qm@web111619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <253060446521497494F81D0964ECFF32@ranteer.local> how very cool. I would guess you could put any kind of light in it since the neon is gone did you notice the size: 6' x 6'!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------- From: "Pete Groh" Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:51 PM To: Subject: [Mgs] MG sign, Neon on e-bay (FL) Item number: 190544023523 > Surf on e-bay and this sign caught my eye. I purchases a 7 foot Dealership > sign, MG, and Austin on the bottom. I did not know they also made a Neon > sign. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/MG-Dealer-Neon-Sign-/190544023523?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5d4f0fe3 > > Pete Groh (KeyGuy) > Ellicott City MD From david_breneman at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 18:10:20 2011 From: david_breneman at yahoo.com (David Breneman) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] MG sign, Neon on e-bay (FL) Item number: 190544023523 In-Reply-To: <253060446521497494F81D0964ECFF32@ranteer.local> Message-ID: <478423.75759.qm@web112110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Dave wrote: > how very cool. I would guess > you could put any kind of light in it since the neon is > gone I doubt if it's (translucent) plastic. It's probably sheet metal. Most neon signs are. From lapierrem at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 17 19:13:54 2011 From: lapierrem at sbcglobal.net (Mark LaPierre) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:13:54 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] County, Another part snafu Message-ID: <000c01cc2d54$fe6a3da0$4001a8c0@markl946cfrd7q> Rod bearings were boxed wrong for my MGA. Should have been .020 but STD was marked on the bearings. Pays to check the small print. Moss took care of this problem for me immediately. FYI, double check everything with the County label. I had to also send an oil pump back to another company just last week that had the County label. Problem corrected immediately. Just a heads up to my fellow hobbyists. Mark From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 17 19:23:09 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:23:09 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] MG sign, Neon on e-bay (FL) Item number: 190544023523 In-Reply-To: <478423.75759.qm@web112110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, the neon tubes would go in front of the letters. But it looks pretty good as is. Neon is expensive and becoming a vanishing art. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/17/11 5:10 PM, David Breneman at david_breneman at yahoo.com wrote: > --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Dave wrote: > >> how very cool. I > would guess >> you could put any kind of light in it since the neon is >> gone > I doubt if it's (translucent) plastic. It's probably sheet > metal. Most neon > signs are. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Sat Jun 18 06:30:12 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 13:30:12 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] County, Another part snafu References: <000c01cc2d54$fe6a3da0$4001a8c0@markl946cfrd7q> Message-ID: Moss are pretty good. I bought two sets of kin-pin shims, they were marked with the correct A B and C size indications, but they were all the same size. Emailed them with the problem, they said send them back, almost by return correct sets were sent, and my postage refunded. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Moss took care of this problem for me immediately. From philip.s.jones at comcast.net Mon Jun 20 22:26:36 2011 From: philip.s.jones at comcast.net (Philip Jones) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:26:36 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Alternator connector question Message-ID: <002701cc2fcb$6a815870$3f840950$@comcast.net> Hello MG friends! This question is regarding the alternator connector on my 1972 MGBGT; although I'm cross-posting to the Spridgets list as I think the connector is similar. I was on the freeway, driving back to Seattle from Reno (MG 2011) when my alternator light flickered a couple of times. Eventually, my wipers slowed, and my turn signals stopped working . . . and I switched my battery with the one in my travelling companion's car, my Dad's 1974 MGBGT. So I got home just fine; although the alternator light stopped working completely. I have a spare alternator at home, so I was planning on switching it out (after having the old one tested to ensure it's the problem). AND, in that light, when I was examining the connector that plugs into the alternator, the smallest wire (brown with a yellow stripe) came out of the contact in the connector! So two questions . . . First! Would an absence of connectivity on the brown/yellow result in the symptoms described? Second! How can I get the contact out of the connector, so I can clean up and repair? I've poked and prodded to no avail - I'm thinking there must be a retaining function, but I can't see it - and although the new alternator came with a new connector (and contacts), I can't tell how the old one works from looking at the new one. I've got a variety of happy endings available. I'm hoping that the old alternator is fine, and I can remove the old contact, clean, re-crimp, solder and re-install. Alternatively (no pun intended), I could cut the wires off and install the connector that came with the new alternator. I hate making wires shorter, though, because the opposite is so difficult. I'm looking forward to your input - thanks in advance for your help! Phil From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 21 09:52:44 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:52:44 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Alternator connector question References: <002701cc2fcb$6a815870$3f840950$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <87C1FEB3D1F6469E80FC82A2338AB020@paul> Ordinarily, with the brown/yellow warning light connected, the alternator will start charging once the revs reach about 900rpm. After that it doesn't need the brown/yellow, it is self-exciting down to about 600rpm, so will charge normally unless the revs fall below this. With the brown/yellow is disconnected a *used* alt should start charging once the engine is revved to about 3k, then will charge down to about 600rpm as before. A brand-new alt out of the box may not do this. So if your revs dropped below 600, and weren't raised to about 3k once the brown/yellow had become disconnected, then it could account for your problem. However as the warning light flickered before the charge failed, I suspect it is the actual alternator that is the main problem, the loose wire is just a coincidence. There is usually a little tang on the spade that locks behind a projection in the insulator block, with these it is a matter of pushing a thin blade from the open end between the connector and the block, to depress it. ----- Original Message ----- > First! Would an absence of connectivity on the brown/yellow result in the > symptoms described? > > Second! How can I get the contact out of the connector, so I can clean up > and repair? From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Tue Jun 21 14:02:53 2011 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:02:53 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal Message-ID: <1FE0ED8944F54EE6AA277CFD66A9C248@uw471de61b465c> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9WWdevNbxA&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dnissan%2Bgtr%2Bdrie%2Bmerenweg%26aq%3Df&has_verified=1 Crazy fool speeding over 200 M/h, where 96 is the limit. Start of this maniac ride is even worse driving almost 100 M/h in town. Glad I was not on the road nearby. Cheers, Hans Duinhoven From qualitas.jack at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 14:19:52 2011 From: qualitas.jack at gmail.com (Jack Feldman) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:19:52 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Thanks to the Council Message-ID: Reno was great, and Rick Ingram and his council did a great job. Can't believe I have been home two days. Thanks to them all! Jack From arundell at ghs.com.au Tue Jun 21 14:32:05 2011 From: arundell at ghs.com.au (Murray Arundell) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 06:32:05 +1000 Subject: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal In-Reply-To: <1FE0ED8944F54EE6AA277CFD66A9C248@uw471de61b465c> References: <1FE0ED8944F54EE6AA277CFD66A9C248@uw471de61b465c> Message-ID: Its Oxygen Abusers like this that give the authorities an excuse to add more and more speed cameras to the landscape to ping any poor sod who happens to stray 5kph over the limit. 300kph is shown on the digital speedo at one time. Staggeringly stupid..... Any idea where it was. From the roadside furniture it looks like Holland. (My wife is Dutch so we visit there often.....) Murray Arundell Who himself was responsible for some staggeringly stupid things in his younger days, but nothing like this..... On 22/06/2011, at 6:02 AM, Hans Duinhoven wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9WWdevNbxA&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com% 2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dnissan%2Bgtr%2Bdrie%2Bmerenweg%26aq%3Df&has_verifi ed=1 > > Crazy fool speeding over 200 M/h, where 96 is the limit. > Start of this maniac ride is even worse driving almost 100 M/h in town. > > Glad I was not on the road nearby. > > Cheers, > > Hans Duinhoven _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au > Murray G. Arundell Managing Director GHS Pty Ltd Glaziers Hardware Supplies Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3277 1255 Fax: +617 3875 1256 Email: arundell at ghs.com.au From jello at cableone.net Wed Jun 22 00:00:03 2011 From: jello at cableone.net (Phil Bates) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:00:03 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W50 Message-ID: <58777.1308722403@cableone.net> From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 05:01:00 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 04:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W50 In-Reply-To: <58777.1308722403@cableone.net> References: <58777.1308722403@cableone.net> Message-ID: <1308740460.10302.YahooMailRC@web39420.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I see your Syntec and raise you Mobil1 0w-40.... Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Phil Bates To: mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 2:00:03 AM Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W50 _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From jello at cableone.net Wed Jun 22 08:24:57 2011 From: jello at cableone.net (Phil Bates) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 07:24:57 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 Message-ID: <49487.1308752697@cableone.net> Ok, I edited in my HTML editor, and that's why I lost the content before. Oops. This thread may have hit the list before - but I found out this week that Castrol is no longer selling a 20W-50 Synthetic oil (Syntec). I've been using it in my Lotus Elan, an Esprit. I know some british car owners were also using it because it had higher ZDDP levels than regular Castrol GTX. Unfortunately Castrol's solution is that 5W 50 is the best replacement. Well, it's not. A cold temp 5 wt oil is too thin for my cars, and probably several of yours. Bottom line is that I now have my choice of Mobil 1 15W-50, or mail order for Red Line or Amsoil if I want a Synthetic 20W 50. I can do that - no problem, but a lot of harassment to me, as I used to pick up Syntec at the local Autozone. Maybe if Castrol heard they're losing business to their compititors, they'll reconsider. For Castrol's comment on the change - see #8 on their website here: http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/loc al_asse ts/downloads/f/Castrol_EDGE_FAQ.pdf I can add that last night I changed oil in one of my cars. As it was winter when I changed oil last, I had used Syntec 5W-50. I did have some concerns with oil pressure, but not major ones. I had purchased enough Syntec 20W-50 for this oil change before it got discontinued. I drive 30 miles to work, so my oil does get hot. Oil pressure this morning was better. Although it should be the same hot (they're both 50 wt hot), I had about 1/2 a bar (close to 10psi) more pressure before I pulled off the freeway. Syntec 20W-50 will be missed, and I will have to go to another manufacturer. Phil Batse From barrie at look.ca Wed Jun 22 08:51:08 2011 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:51:08 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! Message-ID: Gentlemen, This is rather dynamite stuff especially to those who are hard into restoration. Can we have some expert opinions? >http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm Regards, Barrie Robinson barrie at look.ca 705-721-9060 MGB GT V8 in great nick Aston Martin 1955 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm www.britcot.com www.AMFClub.com From palte at gmx.net Wed Jun 22 09:39:20 2011 From: palte at gmx.net (Bert Palte) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:39:20 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 In-Reply-To: <49487.1308752697@cableone.net> References: <49487.1308752697@cableone.net> Message-ID: <20110622153920.288600@gmx.net> It is not just Syntec, in general the 20W50 grade is getting unobtainable. Had a hard time finding it here in Holland. Found some at Metropa (www.Metropa-Rotterdam.nl) last year, bought a 3 year supply but their site doesn't mention 20W50 anymore now. Good Luck finding some! Bert > Ok, I edited in my HTML editor, and that's why I lost the content before. > Oops. > > This thread may have hit the list before - but I found out this week that > Castrol > is no longer selling a 20W-50 Synthetic oil (Syntec). I've been using it > in > my > Lotus Elan, an Esprit. I know some british car owners were also using it > because > it had higher ZDDP levels than regular Castrol GTX. Unfortunately > Castrol's > solution is that 5W 50 is the best replacement. Well, it's not. A cold > temp > 5 wt > oil is too thin for my cars, and probably several of yours. Bottom line > is > that I > now have my choice of Mobil 1 15W-50, or mail order for Red Line or Amsoil > if > I > want a Synthetic 20W 50. I can do that - no problem, but a lot of > harassment > to > me, as I used to pick up Syntec at the local Autozone. > > Maybe if Castrol heard they're losing business to their compititors, > they'll > reconsider. > > For Castrol's comment on the change - see #8 on their website here: > > http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/loc > al_asse > ts/downloads/f/Castrol_EDGE_FAQ.pdf > > I can add that last night I changed oil in one of my cars. As it was > winter > when I > changed oil last, I had used Syntec 5W-50. I did have some concerns with > oil > pressure, but not major ones. I had purchased enough Syntec 20W-50 for > this > oil > change before it got discontinued. I drive 30 miles to work, so my oil > does > get > hot. Oil pressure this morning was better. Although it should be the > same > hot > (they're both 50 wt hot), I had about 1/2 a bar (close to 10psi) more > pressure > before I pulled off the freeway. > > Syntec 20W-50 will be missed, and I will have to go to another > manufacturer. > -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de From dave at ranteer.com Wed Jun 22 09:39:39 2011 From: dave at ranteer.com (Dave) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:39:39 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 In-Reply-To: <49487.1308752697@cableone.net> References: <49487.1308752697@cableone.net> Message-ID: <80537542B87E4D39B73142D8F478577B@ranteer.local> I just picked up some valvoline vr1 racing oil, 20w 50 full synthetic at o reilly's. it has zddp in it. you might be able to get it at one of their stores, or at least order, if o'reilly's has stores in your area. other flaps might have it too -------------------------------------------------- From: "Phil Bates" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 9:24 AM To: Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 > Ok, I edited in my HTML editor, and that's why I lost the content before. > Oops. > > This thread may have hit the list before - but I found out this week that > Castrol > is no longer selling a 20W-50 Synthetic oil (Syntec). I've been using it > in > my > Lotus Elan, an Esprit. I know some british car owners were also using it > because > it had higher ZDDP levels than regular Castrol GTX. Unfortunately > Castrol's > solution is that 5W 50 is the best replacement. Well, it's not. A cold > temp > 5 wt > oil is too thin for my cars, and probably several of yours. Bottom line > is > that I > now have my choice of Mobil 1 15W-50, or mail order for Red Line or Amsoil > if > I > want a Synthetic 20W 50. I can do that - no problem, but a lot of > harassment > to > me, as I used to pick up Syntec at the local Autozone. > > Maybe if Castrol heard they're losing business to their compititors, > they'll > reconsider. > > For Castrol's comment on the change - see #8 on their website here: > > http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/loc > al_asse > ts/downloads/f/Castrol_EDGE_FAQ.pdf > > I can add that last night I changed oil in one of my cars. As it was > winter > when I > changed oil last, I had used Syntec 5W-50. I did have some concerns with > oil > pressure, but not major ones. I had purchased enough Syntec 20W-50 for > this > oil > change before it got discontinued. I drive 30 miles to work, so my oil > does > get > hot. Oil pressure this morning was better. Although it should be the > same > hot > (they're both 50 wt hot), I had about 1/2 a bar (close to 10psi) more > pressure > before I pulled off the freeway. > > Syntec 20W-50 will be missed, and I will have to go to another > manufacturer. > > Phil Batse From mghirsch at netzero.net Wed Jun 22 09:56:16 2011 From: mghirsch at netzero.net (mghirsch at netzero.net) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:56:16 GMT Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 Message-ID: <20110622.105616.28299.0@webmail03.dca.untd.com> You may have a misunderstanding of what the numbers mean. A number like 5 or 50 describes the viscosity, or how well the oil flows. Usually, the colder the oil, the more viscous it is. Viscosity is dependent on other factors than temperature, such as moleular shape, stabilizers, etc., so that every liquid has it's own rate of viscosity change. As an example, the viscosity of water varies very little from the freezing point to the boiling point. Synthetic oils may, depending on a number of factors, have a flatter vicsosity curve than conventional oils allowing a range lilke 5w-50 or 0w-40 that conventional oils cannot match. My experience with Syntec has been very good, in fact I run 5W50 year round in my V-12 Jag. Maynard ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Phil Bates To: mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 07:24:57 -0700 Ok, I edited in my HTML editor, and that's why I lost the content before. Oops. This thread may have hit the list before - but I found out this week that Castrol is no longer selling a 20W-50 Synthetic oil (Syntec). I've been using it in my Lotus Elan, an Esprit. I know some british car owners were also using it because it had higher ZDDP levels than regular Castrol GTX. Unfortunately Castrol's solution is that 5W 50 is the best replacement. Well, it's not. A cold temp 5 wt oil is too thin for my cars, and probably several of yours. Bottom line is that I now have my choice of Mobil 1 15W-50, or mail order for Red Line or Amsoil if I want a Synthetic 20W 50. I can do that - no problem, but a lot of harassment to me, as I used to pick up Syntec at the local Autozone. Maybe if Castrol heard they're losing business to their compititors, they'll reconsider. For Castrol's comment on the change - see #8 on their website here: http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/loc al_asse ts/downloads/f/Castrol_EDGE_FAQ.pdf I can add that last night I changed oil in one of my cars. As it was winter when I changed oil last, I had used Syntec 5W-50. I did have some concerns with oil pressure, but not major ones. I had purchased enough Syntec 20W-50 for this oil change before it got discontinued. I drive 30 miles to work, so my oil does get hot. Oil pressure this morning was better. Although it should be the same hot (they're both 50 wt hot), I had about 1/2 a bar (close to 10psi) more pressure before I pulled off the freeway. Syntec 20W-50 will be missed, and I will have to go to another manufacturer. Phil Batse _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mghirsch at netzero.net ____________________________________________________________ 57 Year Old Mom Looks 27! Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4e02110092db418dc5st05duc From dwoerpel at wi.net Wed Jun 22 10:13:09 2011 From: dwoerpel at wi.net (Woerpel) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:13:09 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] early master cylinder cap Message-ID: <4E021495.8090507@wi.net> Anyone out there know of a source for the "paper" gasket that seals the original metal cap on the M/C of a Bugeye or MGA 1500. I have 3 caps and only 2 gaskets both of which are quite compressed. Might have to make my own, right? TIA, Dave W. 59 :{) 59 MGA 1500 -- Dave W. "Be seeing you"...at the MG Midget 50th Anniversary July 18-24, Elkhart Lake Wisconsin http://www.sprite-midgetclub.org From tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 22 10:24:54 2011 From: tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com (Truxtun Southworth) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:24:54 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 In-Reply-To: <49487.1308752697@cableone.net> References: <49487.1308752697@cableone.net> Message-ID: All, Castrol 20-50 Synthetic stopped being available in CT about 2 years ago. At least I couldn't find it anywhere. I switched to Valvoline VR-1 20-50 full synthetic. for both my B and the TF. Pricey but it has the zinc these engines need. As an alternative I also tried straight Castrol 20-50 and added a half bottle of Lucas zinc additive (I think they market it as a new engine break-in additive) . Could only get that at the local NAPA store. Anybody tried Kendal? I know they also sell a 20-50 full syn with zinc. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Phil Bates wrote: > Ok, I edited in my HTML editor, and that's why I lost the content before. > Oops. > > This thread may have hit the list before - but I found out this week that > Castrol > is no longer selling a 20W-50 Synthetic oil (Syntec). I've been using it > in > my > Lotus Elan, an Esprit. I know some british car owners were also using it > because > it had higher ZDDP levels than regular Castrol GTX. Unfortunately > Castrol's > solution is that 5W 50 is the best replacement. Well, it's not. A cold > temp > 5 wt > oil is too thin for my cars, and probably several of yours. Bottom line is > that I > now have my choice of Mobil 1 15W-50, or mail order for Red Line or Amsoil > if > I > want a Synthetic 20W 50. I can do that - no problem, but a lot of > harassment > to > me, as I used to pick up Syntec at the local Autozone. > > Maybe if Castrol heard they're losing business to their compititors, > they'll > reconsider. > > For Castrol's comment on the change - see #8 on their website here: > > > http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/loc > al_asse > ts/downloads/f/Castrol_EDGE_FAQ.pdf > > I can add that last night I changed oil in one of my cars. As it was > winter > when I > changed oil last, I had used Syntec 5W-50. I did have some concerns with > oil > pressure, but not major ones. I had purchased enough Syntec 20W-50 for > this > oil > change before it got discontinued. I drive 30 miles to work, so my oil > does > get > hot. Oil pressure this morning was better. Although it should be the same > hot > (they're both 50 wt hot), I had about 1/2 a bar (close to 10psi) more > pressure > before I pulled off the freeway. > > Syntec 20W-50 will be missed, and I will have to go to another > manufacturer. > > Phil Batse > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/tsouthworth70 at hotmail.com From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 22 10:53:42 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 09:53:42 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First question: who are these guys? Do they have a financial stake in the issue? Second question: would it be an authentic restoration if bolts didn't work loose over time? -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/22/11 7:51 AM, Barrie Robinson at barrie at look.ca wrote: > Gentlemen, > > > This is rather dynamite stuff especially to those who are hard into > restoration. Can we have some expert opinions? > > > >> http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm > > Regards, > > Barrie Robinson > barrie at look.ca > 705-721-9060 > MGB GT V8 in great nick > Aston Martin 1955 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration > www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm > www.britcot.com > www.AMFClub.com From strovato at optonline.net Wed Jun 22 11:02:36 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:02:36 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0LN7009YTBCLXK60@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Jeez, the more you read, the more you find out that everything you think you know is wrong. Check out this video too. It explains the test and shows the actual test rig details: http://www.boltscience.com/pages/junkertestvideo.htm You will also learn that the Junker Test is not named as a comment on the quality of the car the fastener came from. It is pronounced Yonker and it is named after Gerhard Junker, the German engineer who came up with it. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 10:51 AM 6/22/2011, Barrie Robinson wrote: >Gentlemen, > > >This is rather dynamite stuff especially to those who are hard into >restoration. Can we have some expert opinions? > > > >>http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm > >Regards, > >Barrie Robinson >barrie at look.ca >705-721-9060 >MGB GT V8 in great nick >Aston Martin 1955 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration >www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm >www.britcot.com >www.AMFClub.com From strovato at optonline.net Wed Jun 22 11:17:41 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:17:41 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0LN700HR9C3KR070@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Check out this video also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdSZGu41mf0 It is from a company pitching their locking system. If you accept their testing, then pretty much every kind of locking mechanism (except theirs) is ineffective! I don't know, maybe that's true. I guess the thing I'd like to know is how well the test represents the real world. -Steve From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Wed Jun 22 11:26:02 2011 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:26:02 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal References: <1FE0ED8944F54EE6AA277CFD66A9C248@uw471de61b465c> Message-ID: <1EF4E5DA4D754793892F852C87FDB34C@uw471de61b465c> Hi Murray, I live in Holland at Hoofddorp Near Schiphol airport.Yes I'm Dutch. The road where over 300 Km/h has been driven is west of Hoofddorp named the Drie merenweg - the Three Lakes Road - road number N205. I cannot believe this young guy can drive such an expensive car - car prices. taxes and insurance are one of the most expensive in the world. Not to forget fuel price is very high as well. The little town, where the driver lives is a typical suburbian place, where wealthy people live - town is named Heemstede. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT - poor mans Aston still - still happy with this car - ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Arundell To: Hans Duinhoven Cc: mgs at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal Its Oxygen Abusers like this that give the authorities an excuse to add more and more speed cameras to the landscape to ping any poor sod who happens to stray 5kph over the limit. 300kph is shown on the digital speedo at one time. Staggeringly stupid..... Any idea where it was. From the roadside furniture it looks like Holland. (My wife is Dutch so we visit there often.....) Murray Arundell Who himself was responsible for some staggeringly stupid things in his younger days, but nothing like this..... On 22/06/2011, at 6:02 AM, Hans Duinhoven wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9WWdevNbxA&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube. com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dnissan%2Bgtr%2Bdrie%2Bmerenweg%26aq%3Df&has_ve rified=1 Crazy fool speeding over 200 M/h, where 96 is the limit. Start of this maniac ride is even worse driving almost 100 M/h in town. Glad I was not on the road nearby. Cheers, Hans Duinhoven _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au Murray G. Arundell Managing Director GHS Pty Ltd Glaziers Hardware Supplies Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3277 1255 Fax: +617 3875 1256 Email: arundell at ghs.com.au [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 22 11:36:00 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:36:00 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 In-Reply-To: <20110622.105616.28299.0@webmail03.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: There is also a lot of misunderstanding regarding how viscosity relates to oil pressure, and what that actually means. People assume they need a "heavy" oil to maintain oil pressure. A higher viscosity oil is harder to pump and may therefore give a higher pressure reading on the gauge, but it also restricts the rate of oil flow, which may lead to oil starvation at the bearings. What the bearings require is a continuous oil film -- this is a function of flow rate, not pressure. The reason we talk about oil pressure is because this is a property that is easily measured with a gauge -- it isn't a good in and of itself. The measurement of oil pressure is merely a crude substitute for the oil flow rate measured at the bearings, which is unobtainable, from a practical standpoint. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/22/11 8:56 AM, mghirsch at netzero.net at mghirsch at netzero.net wrote: > You may have a misunderstanding of what the numbers mean. A number like 5 or > 50 describes the viscosity, or how well the oil flows. Usually, the colder > the oil, the more viscous it is. Viscosity is dependent on other factors than > temperature, such as moleular shape, stabilizers, etc., so that every liquid > has it's own rate of viscosity change. As an example, the viscosity of water > varies very little from the freezing point to the boiling point. Synthetic > oils may, depending on a number of factors, have a flatter vicsosity curve > than conventional oils allowing a range lilke 5w-50 or 0w-40 that conventional > oils cannot match. > > My experience with Syntec has been very good, in fact I run 5W50 year round in > my V-12 Jag. > > Maynard > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > From: Phil Bates > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 07:24:57 -0700 > > Ok, I edited in my HTML editor, and that's why I lost the content before. > Oops. > > This thread may have hit the list before - but I found out this week that > Castrol > is no longer selling a 20W-50 Synthetic oil (Syntec). I've been using it in > my > Lotus Elan, an Esprit. I know some british car owners were also using it > because > it had higher ZDDP levels than regular Castrol GTX. Unfortunately Castrol's > solution is that 5W 50 is the best replacement. Well, it's not. A cold temp > 5 wt > oil is too thin for my cars, and probably several of yours. Bottom line is > that I > now have my choice of Mobil 1 15W-50, or mail order for Red Line or Amsoil > if > I > want a Synthetic 20W 50. I can do that - no problem, but a lot of harassment > to > me, as I used to pick up Syntec at the local Autozone. > > Maybe if Castrol heard they're losing business to their compititors, they'll > reconsider. > > For Castrol's comment on the change - see #8 on their website here: > > http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/loc > al_asse > ts/downloads/f/Castrol_EDGE_FAQ.pdf > > I can add that last night I changed oil in one of my cars. As it was winter > when I > changed oil last, I had used Syntec 5W-50. I did have some concerns with oil > pressure, but not major ones. I had purchased enough Syntec 20W-50 for this > oil > change before it got discontinued. I drive 30 miles to work, so my oil does > get > hot. Oil pressure this morning was better. Although it should be the same > hot > (they're both 50 wt hot), I had about 1/2 a bar (close to 10psi) more > pressure > before I pulled off the freeway. > > Syntec 20W-50 will be missed, and I will have to go to another manufacturer. > > Phil Batse From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 22 11:38:49 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:38:49 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] early master cylinder cap In-Reply-To: <4E021495.8090507@wi.net> Message-ID: Not sure that this is very critical, considering there is a breather hole in the cap itself. I suppose the purpose of it is to prevent the cap from rusting on permanently. It certainly doesn't "seal" anything. -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/22/11 9:13 AM, Woerpel at dwoerpel at wi.net wrote: > Anyone out there know of a source for the "paper" gasket that seals the > original metal cap on the M/C of a Bugeye or MGA 1500. I have 3 caps > and only 2 gaskets both of which are quite compressed. > Might have to make my own, right? > > TIA, > Dave W. > 59 :{) > 59 MGA 1500 From barneymg at mgaguru.com Wed Jun 22 11:40:50 2011 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:40:50 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <703588.2041.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> That would be funny, if it wasn't so blatently stupid. The "test" fixture and the way it is set up and operates is designed to produce special conditions that do not ever exist in your car. In short, the machine is designed and built specifically to unscrew the nut. Just as one example for consideration, would you expect the cylinder head on your engine to orbit around on the head gasket when the engine is running? That is exactly what this machine does. The plate immediately below the nut has a large clearnce hole. I don't see the rest of the machine, other than to know it is fibrating with a lot of input energy. I don't know if the loose plate is being physically driven in vibration and orbital motion, or if it does that by virtue of the mass of the plate. The method of motivation of the plate is irrellevent. The point is, the plate is orbiting in the direction required to unscrew the nut. This is similar to putting wire wheel hubs on the wrong side of the car so the knock off nut will unscrew itself as you drive rather than being self-tightening. A lockwasher on the cylinder head bolt may or may not prevent the nut from unscrewing, but it certainly does not cause the nut to unscrew. In the case of this special machine, the moving plate will generate more unscrewing torque that the lockwasher can resist, same as being able to unscrew the nut with a big enough wrench. All you need to defeat this machine is a left handed thread on the screw and nut to make the nut self-tightening, just like wire wheel knock-off nuts. The demonstation in the video is a party trick designed to enable you to suspend your common sense long enough to be fooled. Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an attitude http://MGAguru.com At 10:51 AM 6/22/2011 -0400, Barrie Robinson wrote: >.... >This is rather dynamite stuff especially to those who are hard into >restoration. Can we have some expert opinions? >.... >>http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm >.... From barneymg at mgaguru.com Wed Jun 22 11:54:03 2011 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:54:03 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] early master cylinder cap In-Reply-To: <4E021495.8090507@wi.net> References: <4E021495.8090507@wi.net> Message-ID: <668122.89738.qm@smtp109.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Origianl factory part number is AJG5016. Moss Motors had this gasket ("washer" or "seal") listed in the MGA catalog as part number 180-450. I have one, as I always keep one of every gasket and seal for the whole car. Does it have to be paper? I seem to recall the replacament part is cork, not paper, but I wouldn' know what material the original parts were made from. At 11:13 AM 6/22/2011 -0500, Dave Woerpel wrote: >Anyone out there know of a source for the "paper" gasket that seals >the original metal cap on the M/C of a Bugeye or MGA 1500. I have 3 >caps and only 2 gaskets both of which are quite compressed. >Might have to make my own, right? >.... From mike at sportscarslimited.net Wed Jun 22 11:58:21 2011 From: mike at sportscarslimited.net (Michael Singleton) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 10:58:21 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3495AC06458841A0B13FBAC1F3F38613@scloffice> The subject of threaded joints is a long and interesting one. There are several good references on the subject toat do not require a degree in mechanical engineering. The web site referenced in your original posting appears to be a good source. Among others are "Carroll Smith's Nuts,Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook" by Carroll Smith, published by Motorbooks. The statement that split, or lock, washers don't work is true, and has been known for a long time. They are not used among serious racers, can't be used on aircraft, and most places where torque is critical they are not used. Now then, they were widely used in automotive applications particularly among the British. Even where self locking nuts are used there is very frequently a lock washer beneath it. The fact is that your MG is seriously over spec'd in the fastner department. Look at the number and size of fastners on the more modern cars and you will note that there are fewer and smaller fasteners for almost everything. Race cars are the same as are airplanes. Each of the modern applications the bolts have been seriously engineered to be the minimum size that is needed to do the job. Either to reduce weight, as in airplanes and racers, or to reduce cost of building, installation, or just fewer, smaller parts as in everything else. The reduction in the number and size of threaded fastners has made tightening much more important. Hence the focus on the locking washer and its replacement by other kinds of locking devices. In a properly installed and tightened bolt/nut the torque will be sufficient to hold the fastner in place over its lifetime. There is a lot more to this than my brief attempt here. Smith's book is the bible for most of the racing community and he spends probably 100 pages talking about this stuff and how to do it. To get back to the original issue, The fastening systems in most of the British cars we are discussing here are probably way over engineered, particularly by today's standards, and using the original system of fastners won't hurt anything, if they are properly installed. A little Loctite, judiciously applied, can't hurt. Mike Michael Singleton Sportscars Ltd 10170 Croydon Way Suite M Sacramento, CA 95826 (916)366-0330 mike at sportscarslimited.net -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Barrie Robinson Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:51 AM To: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! Gentlemen, This is rather dynamite stuff especially to those who are hard into restoration. Can we have some expert opinions? >http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm Regards, Barrie Robinson barrie at look.ca 705-721-9060 MGB GT V8 in great nick Aston Martin 1955 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm www.britcot.com www.AMFClub.com _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net From peter at nosimport.com Wed Jun 22 12:26:04 2011 From: peter at nosimport.com (Peter Caldwell) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:26:04 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] [Spridgets] early master cylinder cap In-Reply-To: <4E021495.8090507@wi.net> References: <4E021495.8090507@wi.net> Message-ID: <201106221126622.SM01424@TOSHIBA-USER3.nosimport.com> Only if you have some NOS paper! Peter C - At 11:13 AM 6/22/2011, Woerpel wrote: >Anyone out there know of a source for the "paper" gasket that seals >the original metal cap on the M/C of a Bugeye or MGA 1500. I have 3 >caps and only 2 gaskets both of which are quite compressed. >Might have to make my own, right? > >TIA, >Dave W. >59 :{) >59 MGA 1500 > >-- >Dave W. >"Be seeing you"...at the MG Midget 50th Anniversary >July 18-24, Elkhart Lake Wisconsin >http://www.sprite-midgetclub.org From saidel at camden.rutgers.edu Wed Jun 22 12:51:19 2011 From: saidel at camden.rutgers.edu (Bill Saidel) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:51:19 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: <703588.2041.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <703588.2041.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E0239A7.7000300@camden.rutgers.edu> Does that mean split washers were designed for static forces, not dynamic ones? If there is no vibration in the plane of the torque vector, does a split washer add any resistance in the perpendicular direction? Bill Saidel BMCSNJ '76B' '74.5 CBB for sale' On 6/22/2011 1:40 PM, Barney Gaylord wrote: > That would be funny, if it wasn't so blatently stupid. The "test" > fixture and the way it is set up and operates is designed to produce > special conditions that do not ever exist in your car. In short, the > machine is designed and built specifically to unscrew the nut. > > Just as one example for consideration, would you expect the cylinder > head on your engine to orbit around on the head gasket when the engine > is running? That is exactly what this machine does. The plate > immediately below the nut has a large clearnce hole. I don't see the > rest of the machine, other than to know it is fibrating with a lot of > input energy. I don't know if the loose plate is being physically > driven in vibration and orbital motion, or if it does that by virtue > of the mass of the plate. The method of motivation of the plate is > irrellevent. The point is, the plate is orbiting in the direction > required to unscrew the nut. This is similar to putting wire wheel > hubs on the wrong side of the car so the knock off nut will unscrew > itself as you drive rather than being self-tightening. > > A lockwasher on the cylinder head bolt may or may not prevent the nut > from unscrewing, but it certainly does not cause the nut to unscrew. > In the case of this special machine, the moving plate will generate > more unscrewing torque that the lockwasher can resist, same as being > able to unscrew the nut with a big enough wrench. All you need to > defeat this machine is a left handed thread on the screw and nut to > make the nut self-tightening, just like wire wheel knock-off nuts. > > The demonstation in the video is a party trick designed to enable you > to suspend your common sense long enough to be fooled. > > Barney Gaylord > 1958 MGA with an attitude > http://MGAguru.com > > > At 10:51 AM 6/22/2011 -0400, Barrie Robinson wrote: >> .... >> This is rather dynamite stuff especially to those who are hard into >> restoration. Can we have some expert opinions? >> .... >>> http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm From mike at sportscarslimited.net Wed Jun 22 14:39:59 2011 From: mike at sportscarslimited.net (Michael Singleton) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:39:59 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: <4E0239A7.7000300@camden.rutgers.edu> References: <703588.2041.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E0239A7.7000300@camden.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: Basically, according to Smith, the split washer, once it is torqued down becomes a flat washer. The clamping force is the result of the nut stretching the bolt to a pre-determined load. Mike Michael Singleton Sportscars Ltd 10170 Croydon Way Suite M Sacramento, CA 95826 (916)366-0330 mike at sportscarslimited.net -----Original Message----- From: mgs-bounces at autox.team.net [mailto:mgs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bill Saidel Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:51 AM To: Barney Gaylord Cc: mgb-v8 at autox.team.net; mgs at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! Does that mean split washers were designed for static forces, not dynamic ones? If there is no vibration in the plane of the torque vector, does a split washer add any resistance in the perpendicular direction? Bill Saidel BMCSNJ '76B' '74.5 CBB for sale' On 6/22/2011 1:40 PM, Barney Gaylord wrote: > That would be funny, if it wasn't so blatently stupid. The "test" > fixture and the way it is set up and operates is designed to produce > special conditions that do not ever exist in your car. In short, the > machine is designed and built specifically to unscrew the nut. > > Just as one example for consideration, would you expect the cylinder > head on your engine to orbit around on the head gasket when the engine > is running? That is exactly what this machine does. The plate > immediately below the nut has a large clearnce hole. I don't see the > rest of the machine, other than to know it is fibrating with a lot of > input energy. I don't know if the loose plate is being physically > driven in vibration and orbital motion, or if it does that by virtue > of the mass of the plate. The method of motivation of the plate is > irrellevent. The point is, the plate is orbiting in the direction > required to unscrew the nut. This is similar to putting wire wheel > hubs on the wrong side of the car so the knock off nut will unscrew > itself as you drive rather than being self-tightening. > > A lockwasher on the cylinder head bolt may or may not prevent the nut > from unscrewing, but it certainly does not cause the nut to unscrew. > In the case of this special machine, the moving plate will generate > more unscrewing torque that the lockwasher can resist, same as being > able to unscrew the nut with a big enough wrench. All you need to > defeat this machine is a left handed thread on the screw and nut to > make the nut self-tightening, just like wire wheel knock-off nuts. > > The demonstation in the video is a party trick designed to enable you > to suspend your common sense long enough to be fooled. > > Barney Gaylord > 1958 MGA with an attitude > http://MGAguru.com > > > At 10:51 AM 6/22/2011 -0400, Barrie Robinson wrote: >> .... >> This is rather dynamite stuff especially to those who are hard into >> restoration. Can we have some expert opinions? >> .... >>> http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mike at sportscarslimited.net From d_dibiase at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 14:58:50 2011 From: d_dibiase at yahoo.com (Dan DiBiase) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal In-Reply-To: <1EF4E5DA4D754793892F852C87FDB34C@uw471de61b465c> References: <1FE0ED8944F54EE6AA277CFD66A9C248@uw471de61b465c> <1EF4E5DA4D754793892F852C87FDB34C@uw471de61b465c> Message-ID: <1308776330.99834.YahooMailRC@web39408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Anywhere near the guy building the replica of Noah's ark?? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ________________________________ From: Hans Duinhoven To: Murray Arundell Cc: mgs at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 1:26:02 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal Hi Murray, I live in Holland at Hoofddorp Near Schiphol airport.Yes I'm Dutch. The road where over 300 Km/h has been driven is west of Hoofddorp named the Drie merenweg - the Three Lakes Road - road number N205. I cannot believe this young guy can drive such an expensive car - car prices. taxes and insurance are one of the most expensive in the world. Not to forget fuel price is very high as well. The little town, where the driver lives is a typical suburbian place, where wealthy people live - town is named Heemstede. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT - poor mans Aston still - still happy with this car - ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Arundell To: Hans Duinhoven Cc: mgs at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal Its Oxygen Abusers like this that give the authorities an excuse to add more and more speed cameras to the landscape to ping any poor sod who happens to stray 5kph over the limit. 300kph is shown on the digital speedo at one time. Staggeringly stupid..... Any idea where it was. From the roadside furniture it looks like Holland. (My wife is Dutch so we visit there often.....) Murray Arundell Who himself was responsible for some staggeringly stupid things in his younger days, but nothing like this..... On 22/06/2011, at 6:02 AM, Hans Duinhoven wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9WWdevNbxA&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube. com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dnissan%2Bgtr%2Bdrie%2Bmerenweg%26aq%3Df&has_ve rified=1 Crazy fool speeding over 200 M/h, where 96 is the limit. Start of this maniac ride is even worse driving almost 100 M/h in town. Glad I was not on the road nearby. Cheers, Hans Duinhoven _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au Murray G. Arundell Managing Director GHS Pty Ltd Glaziers Hardware Supplies Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3277 1255 Fax: +617 3875 1256 Email: arundell at ghs.com.au [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From strovato at optonline.net Wed Jun 22 15:09:44 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:09:44 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: <703588.2041.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <703588.2041.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0LN700894MT1FRG0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Barney, I don't think this is a trick. The machine causes a straight back and forth vibration. It is not orbiting. The machine was not created by a company to sell something. It has been around as a "standard" test device for many years. This Bolt Science company appears to be a consulting firm, selling only training and consulting services. The valid thing to question is whether or not this replicates "real world" conditions. I think the answer is no, or else all vehicles would be reduced to their component parts in the first hundred miles. But sometimes an extreme test can demonstrate a process that might otherwise take a long time to happen. Take a look at the video I posted earlier. It shows how the machine works: http://www.boltscience.com/pages/junkertestvideo.htm If you want to see another video, from a company that is selling something, check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdSZGu41mf0 They seem to have come up with a clever design. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 01:40 PM 6/22/2011, Barney Gaylord wrote: >That would be funny, if it wasn't so blatently stupid. The "test" >fixture and the way it is set up and operates is designed to produce >special conditions that do not ever exist in your car. In short, >the machine is designed and built specifically to unscrew the nut. > >Just as one example for consideration, would you expect the cylinder >head on your engine to orbit around on the head gasket when the >engine is running? That is exactly what this machine does. The >plate immediately below the nut has a large clearnce hole. I don't >see the rest of the machine, other than to know it is fibrating with >a lot of input energy. I don't know if the loose plate is being >physically driven in vibration and orbital motion, or if it does >that by virtue of the mass of the plate. The method of motivation >of the plate is irrellevent. The point is, the plate is orbiting in >the direction required to unscrew the nut. This is similar to >putting wire wheel hubs on the wrong side of the car so the knock >off nut will unscrew itself as you drive rather than being self-tightening. > >A lockwasher on the cylinder head bolt may or may not prevent the >nut from unscrewing, but it certainly does not cause the nut to >unscrew. In the case of this special machine, the moving plate will >generate more unscrewing torque that the lockwasher can resist, same >as being able to unscrew the nut with a big enough wrench. All you >need to defeat this machine is a left handed thread on the screw and >nut to make the nut self-tightening, just like wire wheel knock-off nuts. > >The demonstation in the video is a party trick designed to enable >you to suspend your common sense long enough to be fooled. > >Barney Gaylord >1958 MGA with an attitude >http://MGAguru.com > > >At 10:51 AM 6/22/2011 -0400, Barrie Robinson wrote: >>.... >>This is rather dynamite stuff especially to those who are hard into >>restoration. Can we have some expert opinions? >>.... >>>http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm >>.... >_______________________________________________ > >Mgs at autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.75 >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/strovato at optonline.net From strovato at optonline.net Wed Jun 22 15:27:26 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:27:26 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 In-Reply-To: References: <20110622.105616.28299.0@webmail03.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <0LN7004LENN08UH0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Max, The way it was explained to me is modern cars are built to very tight tolerances. A very thin oil pressurizes the oil system just fine, and a metered amount flows though into each place oil is supposed to be. And the theory is, an old car, built with looser tolerances, and perhaps showing some wear, needs a thicker oil to do the same thing. It's like pumping water into a vertical perforated pipe (sealed, except for the perforations). With big perforations, all the water will come out of the bottom few holes. Small perforations will allow water to flow out of all of the holes. Replace the water with molasses and the large holes will all see some flow. Try that with the small holes and very little molasses will come out, though the pressure inside will be high. Therefore, different engines need different viscosity oils. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 01:36 PM 6/22/2011, Max Heim wrote: >There is also a lot of misunderstanding regarding how viscosity relates to >oil pressure, and what that actually means. People assume they need a >"heavy" oil to maintain oil pressure. A higher viscosity oil is harder to >pump and may therefore give a higher pressure reading on the gauge, but it >also restricts the rate of oil flow, which may lead to oil starvation at the >bearings. What the bearings require is a continuous oil film -- this is a >function of flow rate, not pressure. The reason we talk about oil pressure >is because this is a property that is easily measured with a gauge -- it >isn't a good in and of itself. The measurement of oil pressure is merely a >crude substitute for the oil flow rate measured at the bearings, which is >unobtainable, from a practical standpoint. > >-- > >Max Heim >'66 MGB GHN3L76149 >If you're near Mountain View, CA, >it's the primer red one with chrome wires From max_heim at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 22 16:10:43 2011 From: max_heim at sbcglobal.net (Max Heim) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:10:43 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 In-Reply-To: <0LN7004LENN08UH0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Yes, I've heard this "tight tolerances" story before, but I wonder how much of it is true? The same laws of thermodynamics apply to engines old and new... iron, steel and aluminum behave the same... wear affects both similarly. Main bearing clearances, for example -- are they that much smaller on a new economy car, compared to a 60s or 70s car? I actually doubt it. The molecular properties of oil have not changed. The things that really have improved are ring sealing and cylinder wall oil control, both for emissions reasons. But this is unrelated to oil pressure or viscosity. Most changes in engine design have been driven by either emissions or friction reduction -- neither of these logically lead to particularly tight bearing tolerances. If you really had to adjust your oil viscosity proportional to bearing clearances, new engines would use one weight, and you'd have to progressively change to heavier oils as you accumulated mileage. Does anyone actually do that (other than the extreme case of a high-mile engine with chronic low oil pressure)? I won't dispute your final sentence, as a general statement. But I suspect there is a tendency for drivers in temperate climates to habitually use a heavier grade than necessary. Just heavy enough is good; heavier than that is a power and mileage robber. I should acknowledge one more argument: that 20W50 is what the factory specified at the time. My answer to that is that this was the highest quality oil that was then available. Since then the specification has been upgraded half-a-dozen times, albeit with some unfortunate repercussions (ZDDP reduction, specifically). -- Max Heim '66 MGB GHN3L76149 If you're near Mountain View, CA, it's the primer red one with chrome wires on 6/22/11 2:27 PM, Steven Trovato at strovato at optonline.net wrote: > Max, > > The way it was explained to me is modern cars are built to very tight > tolerances. A very thin oil pressurizes the oil system just fine, > and a metered amount flows though into each place oil is supposed to > be. And the theory is, an old car, built with looser tolerances, and > perhaps showing some wear, needs a thicker oil to do the same > thing. It's like pumping water into a vertical perforated pipe > (sealed, except for the perforations). With big perforations, all > the water will come out of the bottom few holes. Small perforations > will allow water to flow out of all of the holes. Replace the water > with molasses and the large holes will all see some flow. Try that > with the small holes and very little molasses will come out, though > the pressure inside will be high. Therefore, different engines need > different viscosity oils. > > -Steve Trovato > strovato at optonline.net > > At 01:36 PM 6/22/2011, Max Heim wrote: >> There is also a lot of misunderstanding regarding how viscosity relates to >> oil pressure, and what that actually means. People assume they need a >> "heavy" oil to maintain oil pressure. A higher viscosity oil is harder to >> pump and may therefore give a higher pressure reading on the gauge, but it >> also restricts the rate of oil flow, which may lead to oil starvation at the >> bearings. What the bearings require is a continuous oil film -- this is a >> function of flow rate, not pressure. The reason we talk about oil pressure >> is because this is a property that is easily measured with a gauge -- it >> isn't a good in and of itself. The measurement of oil pressure is merely a >> crude substitute for the oil flow rate measured at the bearings, which is >> unobtainable, from a practical standpoint. >> >> -- >> >> Max Heim >> '66 MGB GHN3L76149 >> If you're near Mountain View, CA, >> it's the primer red one with chrome wires From strovato at optonline.net Thu Jun 23 05:57:16 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 07:57:16 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers, Jees Louise In-Reply-To: <001c01cc3180$adb16200$4001a8c0@markl946cfrd7q> References: <703588.2041.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <0LN700894MT1FRG0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <001c01cc3180$adb16200$4001a8c0@markl946cfrd7q> Message-ID: <0LN8004YYRVD4US0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Really? I'm sorry that discussing lock washers has sucked all the joy out of life for you. You better add me to your email "ignore" list now, as I will probably comment about similar engineering topics in the future. -Steven Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 04:36 AM 6/23/2011, Mark LaPierre wrote: >Stephen, you need to step away from the computer and go to the >garage and turn some wrenches. In todays computer world you will >always find contradictory responses to all things. > >Your taking the enjoyment out of the pleasure of maintaining our LBCs. >I have been maintaining my LBCs since 1975 with old fashion split >washers and the like and haven't seen too many fasteners malfunction >so far, as long as I apply enough elbow clicks to secure the fasteners. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jun 23 06:36:35 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:36:35 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Syntec 20W 50 References: <49487.1308752697@cableone.net> Message-ID: 20W/50 hasn't been generally available in the UK for years. First Castrol changed their GTX to 15W/50 which was an improvement, then to 15W/40 which wasn't, and most oils for 'older' i.e. non-injection engines are 15W/40. Valvoline 20W/50 is still available from specialists, but I don't trust it. I had short measure in one container, my V8 seemed to make more noise when I was using it, and the containers are the same as used by the really cheap reclaimed oils anyway. Halfords sell their own 20W/50 (made by Comma) in the old-fashioned metal one gallon cans, but there is no tamper-proof seal i.e. anyone could remove the cap at any time and put anything in it. But surely, 5W/50 is way better than any of the above? The 5W means that it will flow better i.e. get round the engine sooner in cold weather, but it will still have the protection of a 50 when hot. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > .... Unfortunately Castrol's > solution is that 5W 50 is the best replacement. Well, it's not. A cold > temp > 5 wt > oil is too thin for my cars, and probably several of yours. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jun 23 06:42:13 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 13:42:13 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] [Mgb-v8] Spring washers don't work ! References: Message-ID: Funny that, the number of times I have removed nuts with a spring washer and the ends have really gouged the surfaces either side ... ----- Original Message ----- >>http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm From saidel at camden.rutgers.edu Thu Jun 23 07:39:47 2011 From: saidel at camden.rutgers.edu (Bill Saidel) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 09:39:47 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers don't work ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E034223.1070107@camden.rutgers.edu> The more I think about the issue, the more I think split washers with displaced ends cannot just "turn into a washer" when compressed as was commented on a few emails ago on this topic. The compression of the split creates a force vector perpendicular to the washer, which must result in the creation of a lateral static resistance between the nut and split washer and between the split washer and whatever is on its other side. Am I wrong on this? Bill Saidel '76B '74.5 CBB for sale On 6/23/2011 8:42 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > Funny that, the number of times I have removed nuts with a spring > washer and the ends have really gouged the surfaces either side ... > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm > _______________________________________________ From scvc70 at epix.net Thu Jun 23 09:51:06 2011 From: scvc70 at epix.net (Carr&Edwards) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:51:06 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB headrests Message-ID: <3FD755E63B7844838E8F6F8D66E932F6@valuedea617bbe> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the headrests on our '71 MGB from sliding back down when you rest your head on them? I've gone through the archives and have found only posts on how to get the things to move--ours move too easily, and will pull completely out if they're yanked upward too hard. Thanks! Sarah Carr MGB/GT in PA From mgbob at juno.com Thu Jun 23 10:25:06 2011 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:25:06 GMT Subject: [Mgs] MGB headrests Message-ID: <20110623.122506.11427.1@webmail13.vgs.untd.com> Attempting to raise the height of the headrest In my 1972 GT, I also pulled the headrest out of the seat. At the bottom of the chrome post, on the side, was a little rusty flat wire thing that appeared to be a spring that would fit between the post and the groove of the fitting in the seat back. It appeared to be there to tension the post so it would not slide down. At the time I discovered the thing, which was years ago, it did not appear that the spring would last much longer. If it were to fail and the headrest drop, I would drill a small hole through the post and insert a rivet or bolt that would inconspicuously hold the post up. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Carr&Edwards" To: "MG list" Subject: [Mgs] MGB headrests Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:51:06 -0400 Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the headrests on our '71 MGB from sliding back down when you rest your head on them? I've gone through the archives and have found only posts on how to get the things to move--ours move too easily, and will pull completely out if they're yanked upward too hard. Thanks! Sarah Carr MGB/GT in PA _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mgbob at juno.com From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Thu Jun 23 12:43:55 2011 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:43:55 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal References: <1FE0ED8944F54EE6AA277CFD66A9C248@uw471de61b465c> <1EF4E5DA4D754793892F852C87FDB34C@uw471de61b465c> <1308776330.99834.YahooMailRC@web39408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes - pretty close. The ark is situated in the town called Haarlem (yes - the NY part is named after this town). It's some 10 miles from here. here's a link to a youtube vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3BzCdq_nfg Cheers, Hans - prefers to drive his GT instead of stepping into the ark. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan DiBiase To: Hans Duinhoven ; Murray Arundell Cc: mgs at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal Anywhere near the guy building the replica of Noah's ark?? Dan D Central NJ USA '76 MGB Tourer '65 MGB Tourer (Project) NAMGBR #5-2328 http://dans65b.blogspot.com/ http://dans76b.blogspot.com/ http://dansautoblog.blogspot.com/ http://dans-life-blog.blogspot.com/ twitter: dandibiase ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: Hans Duinhoven To: Murray Arundell Cc: mgs at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 1:26:02 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal Hi Murray, I live in Holland at Hoofddorp Near Schiphol airport.Yes I'm Dutch. The road where over 300 Km/h has been driven is west of Hoofddorp named the Drie merenweg - the Three Lakes Road - road number N205. I cannot believe this young guy can drive such an expensive car - car prices. taxes and insurance are one of the most expensive in the world. Not to forget fuel price is very high as well. The little town, where the driver lives is a typical suburbian place, where wealthy people live - town is named Heemstede. Cheers, Hans 71 BGT - poor mans Aston still - still happy with this car - ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Arundell To: Hans Duinhoven Cc: mgs at Autox.Team.Net Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Non-MG and terribly illegal Its Oxygen Abusers like this that give the authorities an excuse to add more and more speed cameras to the landscape to ping any poor sod who happens to stray 5kph over the limit. 300kph is shown on the digital speedo at one time. Staggeringly stupid..... Any idea where it was. From the roadside furniture it looks like Holland. (My wife is Dutch so we visit there often.....) Murray Arundell Who himself was responsible for some staggeringly stupid things in his younger days, but nothing like this..... On 22/06/2011, at 6:02 AM, Hans Duinhoven wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9WWdevNbxA&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtub e. com%2Fresults%3Fsearch_query%3Dnissan%2Bgtr%2Bdrie%2Bmerenweg%26aq%3Df&has_ ve rified=1 Crazy fool speeding over 200 M/h, where 96 is the limit. Start of this maniac ride is even worse driving almost 100 M/h in town. Glad I was not on the road nearby. Cheers, Hans Duinhoven _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/arundell at ghs.com.au Murray G. Arundell Managing Director GHS Pty Ltd Glaziers Hardware Supplies Brisbane, Australia Phone: +617 3277 1255 Fax: +617 3875 1256 Email: arundell at ghs.com.au [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/d_dibiase at yahoo.com From intocars at aol.com Sat Jun 25 17:37:38 2011 From: intocars at aol.com (Bob) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 19:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mgs] (no subject) Message-ID: <8CE01A800EEDC92-1438-60DC@Webmail-d105.sysops.aol.com> http://www.okbotnia.fi/modules/Search/bbc.html From bobmgtd at comcast.net Sun Jun 26 07:08:31 2011 From: bobmgtd at comcast.net (Bob Donahue) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 09:08:31 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down Message-ID: Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch pedal stuck down (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. It felt like it was catching on something, although there is nothing in the footwell for it to catch on. It's acting normal again, but I'm afraid it might happen again. Any ideas on what could cause this??????? Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s) Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 Member: NEMGTR #11470 NAMGBR # 7-3336 Hoosier MGB Club Olde Octagons of Indiana From mg_garage at comcast.net Sun Jun 26 08:15:35 2011 From: mg_garage at comcast.net (gordies garage) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 10:15:35 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There may be nothing in the foot well for it to catch on, but I'll bet there is something in the bell housing. I've seen carbon throw-out bearings wear unevenly to the point that one side of the fork arm has been worn away. I don't believe that it is inconceivable that the fork is catching somehow inside the bell housing. Other than that, you may look at a hose that is collapsed internally preventing a release of hydraulic pressure. But, that wouldn't give the feeling of being caught on something. Gordie Bird '62 MGA MKII -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Donahue" Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 9:08 AM To: "mgs" Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down > Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch pedal > stuck > down (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. It felt like it > was > catching on something, although there is nothing in the footwell for it to > catch on. It's acting normal again, but I'm afraid it might happen again. > Any > ideas on what could cause this??????? > > Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s) > Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net > Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 > 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 > Member: NEMGTR #11470 > NAMGBR # 7-3336 > Hoosier MGB Club > Olde Octagons of Indiana > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net From barneymg at mgaguru.com Sun Jun 26 10:03:52 2011 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 11:03:52 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <139211.49071.qm@smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What kind of car? At 09:08 AM 6/26/2011 -0400, Bob Donahue wrote: >Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch >pedal stuckdown (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. >It felt like it was catching on something, although there is nothing >in the footwell for it to catch on. It's acting normal again, but >I'm afraid it might happen again. Any ideas on what could cause this??????? >.... >Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 > 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 >.... From bobmgtd at comcast.net Sun Jun 26 10:17:40 2011 From: bobmgtd at comcast.net (Bob Donahue) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:17:40 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down References: <139211.49071.qm@smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I forgot to mention that it's a '71 MGB. Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s) Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 Member: NEMGTR #11470 NAMGBR # 7-3336 Hoosier MGB Club Olde Octagons of Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barney Gaylord" To: "Bob Donahue" ; "mgs" Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down > What kind of car? > > > At 09:08 AM 6/26/2011 -0400, Bob Donahue wrote: >>Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch pedal >>stuckdown (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. It felt like >>it was catching on something, although there is nothing in the footwell >>for it to catch on. It's acting normal again, but I'm afraid it might >>happen again. Any ideas on what could cause this??????? >>.... >>Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 >> 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 >>.... From bobmgtd at comcast.net Sun Jun 26 11:19:45 2011 From: bobmgtd at comcast.net (Bob Donahue) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 13:19:45 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down References: Message-ID: <6BDA0FD6FF614902A7AF176F3F94B072@yourmb2swywknr> Is there a way to inspect the throw-out bearing and fork without pulling the engine? Also, how does the fork arm bearing get lubricated? Have I been missing something here? Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s) Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 Member: NEMGTR #11470 NAMGBR # 7-3336 Hoosier MGB Club Olde Octagons of Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordies garage" To: "mgs" Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down > There may be nothing in the foot well for it to catch on, but I'll bet > there is something in the bell housing. I've seen carbon throw-out > bearings wear unevenly to the point that one side of the fork arm has been > worn away. I don't believe that it is inconceivable that the fork is > catching somehow inside the bell housing. > Other than that, you may look at a hose that is collapsed internally > preventing a release of hydraulic pressure. But, that wouldn't give the > feeling of being caught on something. > > Gordie Bird > '62 MGA MKII > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Bob Donahue" > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 9:08 AM > To: "mgs" > Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down > >> Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch pedal >> stuck >> down (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. It felt like it >> was >> catching on something, although there is nothing in the footwell for it >> to >> catch on. It's acting normal again, but I'm afraid it might happen again. >> Any >> ideas on what could cause this??????? >> >> Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s) >> Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net >> Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 >> 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 >> Member: NEMGTR #11470 >> NAMGBR # 7-3336 >> Hoosier MGB Club >> Olde Octagons of Indiana From barneymg at mgaguru.com Sun Jun 26 11:29:16 2011 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:29:16 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down In-Reply-To: References: <139211.49071.qm@smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <719336.99569.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> The pedal itself should never remain down. It shoud have a tension spring near the pivot point above your toes that will lift the pedal to top position, even if something else sticks. The clutch pressure plate has very strong springs, enough to put 1200 pounds squeeze on the clutch friction disc, 400 pound load on the clutch release bearing, 220 pounds on the slave cylinder pushrod, 280 psi hydraulic pressure, 120 pounds force on the master cylinder pushrod, and about 35 pounds on the clutch pedal pad. If anything in that mechanisn sticks in the actuated position, it is indeed a very serious problem. If you can reproduce the condition when the pedal sticks down you will have an easier time diagnosing the problem. If opening the bleed nipple releases pressure so the slave piston and release lever will return, then you may have an internally collapsed flex hose in need of replacement. See here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/hydraulics/ht104.htm The hose is fairly cheap and easy enough to replace. If relieving the pressure does not return the slave piston and release lever, then the slave piston may be stuck in the bore. Five years ago there was a case of an aluminum piston in a slave cylinder with very odd excessive wear. The piston should be steel, not aluminum. See here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/faulty/ft032.htm If you suspect a slave cylinder problem, it bears disassembly for inspection. A simple honing operation and a repacking kit can be easy and cheaper than a new slave cylinder assembly. If the slave cylinder and hose appear to be in good condition, then by process of elimination you have a sticky pistion in the master cylinder. Same applies here, disassemble for inspection first. If the bore looks good, then honing and a repacking kit may be cheap fix. If the bore is scratched or pitted beyond being able to hone it clean, then having it bored out and sleeved may be cheaper than a new master cylinder (or maybe not). Barney Gaylord 1958 MGA with an atttiude http://MGAguru.com At 12:17 PM 6/26/2011 -0400, Bob Donahue wrote: >I forgot to mention that it's a '71 MGB. >.... >----- Original Message ----- From: "Barney Gaylord" >.... >>What kind of car? >>At 09:08 AM 6/26/2011 -0400, Bob Donahue wrote: >>>Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch >>>pedal stuckdown (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. >>>It felt like it was catching on something, although there is >>>nothing in the footwell for it to catch on. It's acting normal >>>again, but I'm afraid it might happen again. Any ideas on what >>>could cause this??????? >>>.... >>>Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 >>> 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 >>>.... From richard.ewald at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 12:31:25 2011 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:31:25 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down In-Reply-To: <719336.99569.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <139211.49071.qm@smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <719336.99569.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <52392945-92B3-43EA-B90C-BB76478EB3E6@gmail.com> If it Is an aluminum cylinder do not hone it. Either replace it or sleeve it. Aluminum cylinders are anodized to prevent corrosion. If you hone the anodizing off the life expectancy of the "rebuilt" cylinder is measured in weeks, months if you are very lucky. Rick Sent from my iPhone On Jun 26, 2011, at 13:29, Barney Gaylord wrote: > If you suspect a slave cylinder problem, it bears disassembly for inspection. A simple honing operation and a repacking kit can be easy and cheaper than a new slave cylinder assembly. From barneymg at mgaguru.com Sun Jun 26 13:53:14 2011 From: barneymg at mgaguru.com (Barney Gaylord) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:53:14 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down In-Reply-To: <52392945-92B3-43EA-B90C-BB76478EB3E6@gmail.com> References: <139211.49071.qm@smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <719336.99569.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52392945-92B3-43EA-B90C-BB76478EB3E6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <707865.2237.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have honed and repacked a lot of aluminum slave cylinders with no prolem, including the clutch slave and two rear brake slaves that have been in service on my MGA since 1986 (238,000 miles), having been rebukt a couple of times by now. I have never known an aluminum slave cylinder to be anodized. If it was anodized it most likely could not be honed, aa the aluminum oxide coating woud be as hard as a grinding stone. At 02:31 PM 6/26/2011 -0400, Richard Ewald wrote: >If it Is an aluminum cylinder do not hone it. Either replace it or >sleeve it.. Aluminum cylinders are anodized to prevent >corrosion. If you hone the anodizing off the life expectancy of the >"rebuilt" cylinder is measured in weeks, months if you are very lucky. >.... >On Jun 26, 2011, at 13:29, Barney Gaylord wrote: > > If you suspect a slave cylinder problem, it bears disassembly for > inspection. A simple honing operation and a repacking kit can be > easy and cheaper than a new slave cylinder assembly. From strovato at optonline.net Sun Jun 26 14:15:29 2011 From: strovato at optonline.net (Steven Trovato) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:15:29 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Spring washers, Jees Louise In-Reply-To: <5D1483CC-1C0A-40E7-BB88-B6307FAE584C@z.rochester.edu> References: <703588.2041.qm@smtp110.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <0LN700894MT1FRG0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <001c01cc3180$adb16200$4001a8c0@markl946cfrd7q> <0LN8004YYRVD4US0@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <5D1483CC-1C0A-40E7-BB88-B6307FAE584C@z.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <0LNE003E6YZF3950@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Did you hear anyone say that? I didn't. I wish you and your old bolts many more miles of happy motoring. -Steve Trovato strovato at optonline.net At 07:18 PM 6/25/2011, Paul Osborne wrote: >And all those bolts on all those MGs that have been running all >these ryes need all new one. From richard.ewald at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 14:45:21 2011 From: richard.ewald at gmail.com (Richard Ewald) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 16:45:21 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down In-Reply-To: <707865.2237.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <139211.49071.qm@smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <719336.99569.qm@smtp101.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <52392945-92B3-43EA-B90C-BB76478EB3E6@gmail.com> <707865.2237.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85807341-8D99-491D-8007-528852AEAE6A@gmail.com> All I can say is that when I ran a parts house a shop would buy a kit for an aluminum cylinder and within 1-2 months they would call back and buy a complete cylinder a HUGE % of the time. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 26, 2011, at 15:53, Barney Gaylord wrote: > I have honed and repacked a lot of aluminum slave cylinders with no prolem, including the clutch slave and two rear brake slaves that have been in service on my MGA since 1986 (238,000 miles), having been rebukt a couple of times by now. > > I have never known an aluminum slave cylinder to be anodized. If it was anodized it most likely could not be honed, aa the aluminum oxide coating woud be as hard as a grinding stone. > > > At 02:31 PM 6/26/2011 -0400, Richard Ewald wrote: >> If it Is an aluminum cylinder do not hone it. Either replace it or sleeve it.. Aluminum cylinders are anodized to prevent corrosion. If you hone the anodizing off the life expectancy of the "rebuilt" cylinder is measured in weeks, months if you are very lucky. >> .... > > >> On Jun 26, 2011, at 13:29, Barney Gaylord wrote: >> > If you suspect a slave cylinder problem, it bears disassembly for inspection. A simple honing operation and a repacking kit can be easy and cheaper than a new slave cylinder assembly. From mike at duvallvideo.com Sun Jun 26 18:22:46 2011 From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:22:46 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] TD shifter rattle Message-ID: <053FA1E8-0AA0-494B-AA43-FF6868E8B023@duvallvideo.com> My TD shift lever all of the sudden started rattling/banging on hard acceleration. Could weak springs on the balls cause this? I read somewhere where the brass piece the shift lever fits into can wear and cause this but I would think I would feel that moving the shifter. Holding the shifter doesn't stop the problem. From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 27 02:19:29 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 09:19:29 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down References: Message-ID: <2B1A91A51D7C442AB0FC5D933F0EF13A@paul> I can't see it being anything in the bellhousing or the hydraulic hose. The master cylinder and the pedal have return springs, and normally these would be enough to pull the pedal back even if there is no return hydraulic pressure. The master seals are designed to pull fluid past them on the return stroke when there is no return pressure for any reason. I had a release bearing break some years ago, so no return pressure, the pedal worked normally (albeit very light) and just a couple of pumps were enough to push the slave piston out of the end of the cylinder. I'd be looking at the pedal pivot, linkage, and master push-rod and piston. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch pedal > stuck > down (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. It felt like it > was > catching on something, although there is nothing in the footwell for it to > catch on. From j_cahoon at yahoo.com Mon Jun 27 04:48:36 2011 From: j_cahoon at yahoo.com (John Cahoon) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 03:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down In-Reply-To: <2B1A91A51D7C442AB0FC5D933F0EF13A@paul> References: <2B1A91A51D7C442AB0FC5D933F0EF13A@paul> Message-ID: <1309171716.81921.YahooMailNeo@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> All I would suspect the hose. Certainly brake hoses can break up inside and cause the brakes to stick. Why not the clutch hose as well. John Cahoon Dr John's Auto Cleveland, Ohio ________________________________ From: Paul Hunt To: Bob Donahue ; mgs Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:19 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down I can't see it being anything in the bellhousing or the hydraulic hose. The master cylinder and the pedal have return springs, and normally these would be enough to pull the pedal back even if there is no return hydraulic pressure. The master seals are designed to pull fluid past them on the return stroke when there is no return pressure for any reason. I had a release bearing break some years ago, so no return pressure, the pedal worked normally (albeit very light) and just a couple of pumps were enough to push the slave piston out of the end of the cylinder. I'd be looking at the pedal pivot, linkage, and master push-rod and piston. PaulH. ----- Original Message ----- > Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch pedal stuck > down (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. It felt like it was > catching on something, although there is nothing in the footwell for it to > catch on. _______________________________________________ Mgs at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/j_cahoon at yahoo.com From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 27 05:51:17 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 12:51:17 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down References: <2B1A91A51D7C442AB0FC5D933F0EF13A@paul> <1309171716.81921.YahooMailNeo@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3403D603F87C4B19A95402C785051F8B@paul> That would certainly cause the clutch to be disengaged, but not the pedal to be stuck down (unless both pedal and master springs were missing or broken). ----- Original Message ----- > I would suspect the hose. Certainly brake hoses can break up inside and > cause the brakes to stick. Why not the clutch hose as well. From craigstraub at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 27 06:01:44 2011 From: craigstraub at sbcglobal.net (Craig Straub) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 07:01:44 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down References: Message-ID: No one has mentioned this item I think. What is holding your clevis to the clutch pedal and is it free or does it bind when fully depressed. I run a bolt in my Girling 5/8 master cylinder in the race car and use a bolt with a nyloc nut. If I tighten the bolt and nut to tight it will cause a binding and the clutch pedal to stick or operate not as freely. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordies garage" To: "mgs" <> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down > There may be nothing in the foot well for it to catch on, but I'll bet > there is something in the bell housing. I've seen carbon throw-out > bearings wear unevenly to the point that one side of the fork arm has been > worn away. I don't believe that it is inconceivable that the fork is > catching somehow inside the bell housing. > Other than that, you may look at a hose that is collapsed internally > preventing a release of hydraulic pressure. But, that wouldn't give the > feeling of being caught on something. > > Gordie Bird > '62 MGA MKII > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Bob Donahue" > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 9:08 AM > To: "mgs" > Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down > >> Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch pedal >> stuck >> down (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. It felt like it >> was >> catching on something, although there is nothing in the footwell for it >> to >> catch on. It's acting normal again, but I'm afraid it might happen again. >> Any >> ideas on what could cause this??????? >> >> Bob Donahue (Still Stuck in the '50s) >> Email - bobmgtd at comcast.net >> Cars: 52 MGTD - #17639 >> 71 MGB - #GHN5UB254361 >> Member: NEMGTR #11470 >> NAMGBR # 7-3336 >> Hoosier MGB Club >> Olde Octagons of Indiana >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mgs at autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.75 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mg_garage at comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/craigstraub at sbcglobal.net From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Mon Jun 27 07:59:05 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:59:05 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down References: Message-ID: "I'd be looking at the pedal pivot, linkage, and master push-rod and piston." ----- Original Message ----- > No one has mentioned this item I think. What is holding your clevis to > the clutch pedal and is it free or does it bind when fully depressed. From scvc70 at epix.net Mon Jun 27 08:12:43 2011 From: scvc70 at epix.net (Carr&Edwards) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 10:12:43 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB headrests References: <3FD755E63B7844838E8F6F8D66E932F6@valuedea617bbe> <8CDFFD9376E4E7A-1950-725F@webmail-m012.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9F945903DD4F4B03A6DCC0002DD6C81C@valuedea617bbe> The piece of spring steel with the protruding "ear" on the side had been displaced upward inside the shaft, so that the ear no longer stuck out of the hole. However, fixing that problem didn't help, as there are no serrations on the inside of the socket to hold the shaft at any particular point--the system relies entirely on friction, which is entirely inadequate.... Still trying to think of some device I can make that will hold the headrest in place but which is easily adjustable, as I'm not the only one driving the car. The main stumbling block is that the top of the seat back is easily compressible (unlike my Subaru, which had the same problem, so I just made a wooden block to fit underneath the headrest). Back to the old drawing board----------- Sarah Carr '71 MGB/GT in PA ----- Original Message ----- From: tmcnam4510 at aol.com To: scvc70 at epix.net Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB headrests Hey Sarah, there should be a piece of spring steel in the end of the headrest. It has a small tab that protrudes from the side of the shaft. This tab, in turn, fits into serrations in the shaft "socket" to allow stable adjustment in height. Hope this helps, Tom -----Original Message----- From: Carr&Edwards To: MG list Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:51 am Subject: [Mgs] MGB headrests Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the headrests on our '71 MGB from sliding back down when you rest your head on them? I've gone through the archives and have found only posts on how to get the things to move--ours move too easily, and will pull completely out if they're yanked upward too hard.. Thanks! Sarah Carr MGB/GT in PA From redscirocco at hotmail.com Mon Jun 27 09:28:56 2011 From: redscirocco at hotmail.com (Mike Eldred) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:28:56 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB headrests In-Reply-To: <9F945903DD4F4B03A6DCC0002DD6C81C@valuedea617bbe> References: <3FD755E63B7844838E8F6F8D66E932F6@valuedea617bbe>, <8CDFFD9376E4E7A-1950-725F@webmail-m012.sysops.aol.com>, <9F945903DD4F4B03A6DCC0002DD6C81C@valuedea617bbe> Message-ID: Sarah, I don't have any experience taking MGB headrests and seats apart, but I do have a pile of Midget headrests and seat frames in the garage at the moment. And on the Midget headrests, the protruding piece of spring steel at the bottom of the headrest post is there only to keep the headrest from being fully withdrawn from the seat. Inside the seat, inside the "socket," there is a cylindrical "tensioner." It is about as big around as a pencil. It fits into the socket that holds the headrest post. If you look down inside a Midget seat, you might be able to see it about two or three inches down, running horizontally through the socket. It can be replaced, but you would have to remove the upholstery and foam from the seatback. Whether this is the same on some MGB seats is for someone else to say, but I hope this helps you track down your headrest problem. I can think of a couple possible solutions without removing the upholstery. One would be to increase the friction on the headrest post by altering the shape of the post. Perhaps you could remove the post and hammer the sides carefully to make the post bulge very slightly - enough to provide tension. A second idea is to drill a small hole through the post at each of the places you need it to stop. Make a pin to put through the hole that's just long enough to keep the headrest from dropping in any farther. I suppose this may or may not work depending on whether there's enough room for the pin to get through the upholstery. Glue a thin, tapered sliver of wood to the post - thin as in plane-shaving thin. If it doesn't work, at least it's easily reversible and won't damage anything. Good luck! Mike Eldred 1954 MG TF 1973 Midget > From: scvc70 at epix.net > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 10:12:43 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB headrests > > The piece of spring steel with the protruding "ear" on the side had been > displaced upward inside the shaft, so that the ear no longer stuck out of the > hole. However, fixing that problem didn't help, as there are no serrations on > the inside of the socket to hold the shaft at any particular point--the system > relies entirely on friction, which is entirely inadequate.... Still trying to > think of some device I can make that will hold the headrest in place but which > is easily adjustable, as I'm not the only one driving the car. The main > stumbling block is that the top of the seat back is easily compressible > (unlike my Subaru, which had the same problem, so I just made a wooden block > to fit underneath the headrest). Back to the old drawing board----------- > > Sarah Carr > '71 MGB/GT in PA > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tmcnam4510 at aol.com > To: scvc70 at epix.net > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 12:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB headrests > > > Hey Sarah, there should be a piece of spring steel in the end of the > headrest. It has a small tab that protrudes from the side of the shaft. > This tab, in turn, fits into serrations in the shaft "socket" to allow stable > adjustment in height. Hope this helps, Tom > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carr&Edwards > To: MG list > Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:51 am > Subject: [Mgs] MGB headrests > > > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the headrests on our '71 MGB > from sliding back down when you rest your head on them? I've gone through > the > archives and have found only posts on how to get the things to move--ours > move > too easily, and will pull completely out if they're yanked upward too hard.. > > Thanks! > Sarah Carr > MGB/GT in PA > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/redscirocco at hotmail.com From ccrobins at ktc.com Mon Jun 27 09:47:03 2011 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 10:47:03 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down In-Reply-To: <2B1A91A51D7C442AB0FC5D933F0EF13A@paul> References: <2B1A91A51D7C442AB0FC5D933F0EF13A@paul> Message-ID: <4E08A5F7.4090600@ktc.com> I had much the samel problem in my MGB. The clutch pedal returned but the clutch did not engage. This happened in a restaurant parking lot after parking the car, thank goodness. When we returned to the car the clutch was engaged. However, one push on the pedal caused the clutch to disengage and it stayed that way. So I called my towing insurer and had the car flat-bedded to the house. After troubleshooting it turned out that the flexible hose to the slave cylinder had failed internally, preventing the slave piston from returning to "at rest" immediately. The blockage wasn't complete apparently; as the pressure in the slave cylinder would bleed off over time. A new flex hose and a thorough flush-and-bleed solved the problem. The easy way to isolate the problem to the hose is to disengage the clutch and immediately go under the car and open the slave cylinder's bleed port. If the slave piston returns to "at rest" immediately then you know the pressure in the slave cylinder didn't drop when the pedal was released. Then you push and release the pedal again and open the fitting at the clutch master cylinder and observe the slave piston for motion. I'll leave deductions to the reader as an exercise in troubleshooting logic. :-) Actually, this is a common problem in "wet" clutch actuation systems in older cars. I ran into it several times when I used to buy, repair and resell older cars. CR '69 MGB On 6/27/2011 3:19 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > I can't see it being anything in the bellhousing or the hydraulic > hose. The master cylinder and the pedal have return springs, and > normally these would be enough to pull the pedal back even if there is > no return hydraulic pressure. The master seals are designed to pull > fluid past them on the return stroke when there is no return pressure > for any reason. I had a release bearing break some years ago, so no > return pressure, the pedal worked normally (albeit very light) and > just a couple of pumps were enough to push the slave piston out of the > end of the cylinder. > > I'd be looking at the pedal pivot, linkage, and master push-rod and > piston. > > PaulH. From mgbob at juno.com Mon Jun 27 09:50:57 2011 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:50:57 GMT Subject: [Mgs] [Mg-t] TD shifter rattle Message-ID: <20110627.115057.7280.4@webmail11.vgs.untd.com> Hi Mike, There are a couple of places in the remote linkage where the rattle can originate. Lew replied that the RPM affects the rattle, something that Lawrie Alexander noted also. If it's a clear-sounding rattle, it's probably external. A bronze bushing in the remote shifter rod can wear, allowing the rod to rattle with an annoying, clear sound. The bushing would be a simple press out and in, except to get to it you first must remove the shift lever. "You can't put a square peg into a round hole" MG could, and did. The pounded square pegs into the round holes of the casting, the pegs fitting into slots milled into the lever. Lawrie describes some hook device that one can make to remove the pegs. He could; I couldn't. I move the timing around to get the rattle at the least objectionable rpm range. Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Duvall Video Productions To: mg-t at autox.team.net, mgs at autox.team.net Subject: [Mg-t] TD shifter rattle Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:22:46 -0500 My TD shift lever all of the sudden started rattling/banging on hard acceleration. Could weak springs on the balls cause this? I read somewhere where the brass piece the shift lever fits into can wear and cause this but I would think I would feel that moving the shifter. Holding the shifter doesn't stop the problem. ______________________________________________ Mg-t at autox.team.net Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $11.47 Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mg-t/mgbob at juno.com From barrie at look.ca Mon Jun 27 11:38:01 2011 From: barrie at look.ca (Barrie Robinson) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:38:01 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] 100mm Tacho gauge Message-ID: I am in dire need of a 100mm tachometer for my 1980 dashed MGB GT V8. I originally stuck in Triumph 8 cylinder tach guts into my original 4 cyl one but somehow it does not seem to work. Now doubt the Triumph tach was duff. Does anyone have a 100mm tach for sale that I could convert ? - somewhere I have the instructions. Does anyone know who would do the 4 to 8 cylinder conversion? Does anyone have a genuine 8 cylinder tach from a MGB GT V8 for sale? Many thanks in advance for your response Regards, Barrie Robinson barrie at look.ca 705-721-9060 MGB GT V8 in great nick Aston Martin 1955 DB 2/4 MkII under restoration www.britishv8.org/MG/BarrieRobinson.htm www.britcot.com www.AMFClub.com From mike at duvallvideo.com Mon Jun 27 12:06:42 2011 From: mike at duvallvideo.com (Duvall Video Productions) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:06:42 -0500 Subject: [Mgs] [Mg-t] TD shifter rattle In-Reply-To: <123fe.7e26e45.3b3a170f@aol.com> References: <123fe.7e26e45.3b3a170f@aol.com> Message-ID: thanks for all the responses. I advanced my timing and thought it was a coincidence. I think I would rather get a little more power and try to fix rattle. On Jun 27, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Emgeeguy at aol.com wrote: > Hi Mike, > There are a couple of places in the remote linkage where the rattle can > originate. Lew replied that the RPM affects the rattle, something that Lawrie > Alexander noted also. > If it's a clear-sounding rattle, it's probably external. A bronze bushing > in the remote shifter rod can wear, allowing the rod to rattle with an > annoying, clear sound. The bushing would be a simple press out and in, except > to get to it you first must remove the shift lever. > "You can't put a square peg into a round hole" MG could, and did. The > pounded square pegs into the round holes of the casting, the pegs fitting into > slots milled into the lever. Lawrie describes some hook device that one can > make to remove the pegs. He could; I couldn't. > I move the timing around to get the rattle at the least objectionable rpm > range. > Bob From scvc70 at epix.net Mon Jun 27 13:59:46 2011 From: scvc70 at epix.net (Carr&Edwards) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:59:46 -0400 Subject: [Mgs] MGB headrests References: <3FD755E63B7844838E8F6F8D66E932F6@valuedea617bbe>, <8CDFFD9376E4E7A-1950-725F@webmail-m012.sysops.aol.com>, <9F945903DD4F4B03A6DCC0002DD6C81C@valuedea617bbe> Message-ID: <685AFE5D96FE4655AF5D1ED35E99EFA5@valuedea617bbe> Said tensioner spring has a piece broken out of it where it would press on the shaft--hence no pressure (and it's hard to believe that the system worked well even when it was new!) No doubt the simplest thing they could think of, to save a few pence. Sarah Carr '71 MGB/GT in PA ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Eldred To: scvc70 at epix.net ; mgs at autox.team.net Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [Mgs] MGB headrests Sarah, I don't have any experience taking MGB headrests and seats apart, but I do have a pile of Midget headrests and seat frames in the garage at the moment. And on the Midget headrests, the protruding piece of spring steel at the bottom of the headrest post is there only to keep the headrest from being fully withdrawn from the seat. Inside the seat, inside the "socket," there is a cylindrical "tensioner." It is about as big around as a pencil. It fits into the socket that holds the headrest post. If you look down inside a Midget seat, you might be able to see it about two or three inches down, running horizontally through the socket. It can be replaced, but you would have to remove the upholstery and foam from the seatback. Whether this is the same on some MGB seats is for someone else to say, but I hope this helps you track down your headrest problem. I can think of a couple possible solutions without removing the upholstery. One would be to increase the friction on the headrest post by altering the shape of the post. Perhaps you could remove the post and hammer the sides carefully to make the post bulge very slightly - enough to provide tension. A second idea is to drill a small hole through the post at each of the places you need it to stop. Make a pin to put through the hole that's just long enough to keep the headrest from dropping in any farther. I suppose this may or may not work depending on whether there's enough room for the pin to get through the upholstery. Glue a thin, tapered sliver of wood to the post - thin as in plane-shaving thin. If it doesn't work, at least it's easily reversible and won't damage anything. Good luck! Mike Eldred 1954 MG TF 1973 Midget > From: scvc70 at epix.net > To: mgs at autox.team.net > Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 10:12:43 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Mgs] MGB headrests > > The piece of spring steel with the protruding "ear" on the side had been > displaced upward inside the shaft, so that the ear no longer stuck out of the > hole. However, fixing that problem didn't help, as there are no serrations on > the inside of the socket to hold the shaft at any particular point--the system > relies entirely on friction, which is entirely inadequate.... Still trying to > think of some device I can make that will hold the headrest in place but which > is easily adjustable, as I'm not the only one driving the car. The main > stumbling block is that the top of the seat back is easily compressible > (unlike my Subaru, which had the same problem, so I just made a wooden block > to fit underneath the headrest). Back to the old drawing board----------- > > Sarah Carr > '71 MGB/GT in PA From paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jun 28 07:11:11 2011 From: paul.hunt1 at blueyonder.co.uk (Paul Hunt) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 14:11:11 +0100 Subject: [Mgs] How many left? Message-ID: <153E7306FB8F443D9F442E6B2FDC6E04@paul> A question that has been asked from time to time, now (info from Top Gear) there is a web site giving the numbers for UK cars licensed or notified as being off-road from 1994 to 2011 based on government data. This doesn't include cars that have been off-road since before 31st January 1998. Since that date a car must either be taxed, taken out of use and notified as such, scrapped and notified as such, or possibly exported and notified as such, the first two remaining on the database, the second two not. So each reduction in numbers over the period is almost certainly a car having been scrapped (or exported), in fact it's probably more than that as a few may well be coming back on the road, having been off since before the above date. For the MGB (search for MG B) it shows 11271 in 1994, rising to 14156 in 1999 (i.e. 3000-odd coming back on the road in that time), then a steady decline to 10453 in 2011. For the GT it's 19498 in 1994, then a more or less steady (and significant) decline to 8168 in 2011. For the GT V8 it was 710 in 1994, fairly steady until 2000, then a decline to 414 in 2011. Some of these are a bit surprising to me - like the significantly higher number of GTs in 1994. Perhaps not so surprising is the much greater decline in GT numbers - halving - since 2000. Also surprising is the decline in genuine V8 numbers given the interest in conversions. The Government scrappage scheme which started in May 2009 doesn't seem to have made a huge difference, I'm glad to say. Current numbers for other MGs also available of course, just 5 Magnette (Farina), but then there were only 9 in 1994 anyway. Perhaps unsurprisingly the MG Maestro and Metro have suffered the greatest decline, with the exception of the Metro 6R4 which is only one fewer, albeit having gone up by 13 and down by 14 over the period. There doesn't appear to be a single MG Montego. http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=mg+b From mgbob at juno.com Tue Jun 28 07:33:17 2011 From: mgbob at juno.com (mgbob at juno.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:33:17 GMT Subject: [Mgs] [Mg-t] TD shifter rattle Message-ID: <20110628.093317.467.1@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> That seems a good way to do it, far less likely to crack the casting that pounding pins out and in. For the MGB all syncro gearbox, and perhaps for others too, the shift lever was retained with bolts from the side. The bolts were threaded into the casting, and their projecting tip was without thread, poking into the slots of the lever. While it did require tapping two holes at the factory, it would seem that there would be a smaller chance of cracking the casting when assembling. A club member has just offered a TD gearbox to our club, a take-out from a five-speed conversion. It's in my garage now. I will take a look at it and see how the MGB tapping method would work.Bob ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Emgeeguy at aol.com To: mgbob at juno.com, mike at duvallvideo.com Cc: mgs at autox.team.net, mg-t at autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Mg-t] TD shifter rattle Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 13:25:35 EDT I had to remove the pins. Rather than pounding square pins back in, I tapped the holes on both sides, put a short pin in (not a press fit, but a little loose), then put a set screw in each side to hold the pin in place. Hope it works. That way I can remove the stuff easily without trying to figure out how to get the pins out. Larry From h.duinhoven at planet.nl Tue Jun 28 13:11:04 2011 From: h.duinhoven at planet.nl (Hans Duinhoven) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 21:11:04 +0200 Subject: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down References: <2B1A91A51D7C442AB0FC5D933F0EF13A@paul> Message-ID: <9AAC30658AC04941BA488A0CE70576CC@uw471de61b465c> Pedals do have to possibility to show wear on their bearing. The bearing can be replaced and should be reamed afterwards. I did this job with my BGT and it worked out well. Cheers, Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hunt" To: "Bob Donahue" ; "mgs" Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Mgs] Clutch pedal sticking down >I can't see it being anything in the bellhousing or the hydraulic hose. >The master cylinder and the pedal have return springs, and normally these >would be enough to pull the pedal back even if there is no return hydraulic >pressure. The master seals are designed to pull fluid past them on the >return stroke when there is no return pressure for any reason. I had a >release bearing break some years ago, so no return pressure, the pedal >worked normally (albeit very light) and just a couple of pumps were enough >to push the slave piston out of the end of the cylinder. > > I'd be looking at the pedal pivot, linkage, and master push-rod and > piston. > > PaulH. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Just got back from a long club drive. Along the route my clutch pedal >> stuck >> down (disengaged, engine revving freely) several times. It felt like it >> was >> catching on something, although there is nothing in the footwell for it >> to >> catch on. From simon.d.matthews at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 23:12:32 2011 From: simon.d.matthews at gmail.com (Simon Matthews) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:12:32 -0700 Subject: [Mgs] How many left? In-Reply-To: <153E7306FB8F443D9F442E6B2FDC6E04@paul> References: <153E7306FB8F443D9F442E6B2FDC6E04@paul> Message-ID: Interesting. The MGA numbers increased from 1994 to 1998 and then have been fairly steady, with a slight peak around 2005. Simon On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:11 AM, Paul Hunt wrote: > A question that has been asked from time to time, now (info from Top Gear) > there is a web site giving the numbers for UK cars licensed or notified as > being off-road from 1994 to 2011 based on government data. This doesn't > include cars that have been off-road since before 31st January 1998. Since > that date a car must either be taxed, taken out of use and notified as such, > scrapped and notified as such, or possibly exported and notified as such, the > first two remaining on the database, the second two not. So each reduction in > numbers over the period is almost certainly a car having been scrapped (or > exported), in fact it's probably more than that as a few may well be coming > back on the road, having been off since before the above date. > > For the MGB (search for MG B) it shows 11271 in 1994, rising to 14156 in 1999 > (i.e. 3000-odd coming back on the road in that time), then a steady decline to > 10453 in 2011. For the GT it's 19498 in 1994, then a more or less steady (and > significant) decline to 8168 in 2011. For the GT V8 it was 710 in 1994, > fairly steady until 2000, then a decline to 414 in 2011. > > Some of these are a bit surprising to me - like the significantly higher > number of GTs in 1994. Perhaps not so surprising is the much greater decline > in GT numbers - halving - since 2000. Also surprising is the decline in > genuine V8 numbers given the interest in conversions. The Government > scrappage scheme which started in May 2009 doesn't seem to have made a huge > difference, I'm glad to say. > > Current numbers for other MGs also available of course, just 5 Magnette > (Farina), but then there were only 9 in 1994 anyway. Perhaps unsurprisingly > the MG Maestro and Metro have suffered the greatest decline, with the > exception of the Metro 6R4 which is only one fewer, albeit having gone up by > 13 and down by 14 over the period. There doesn't appear to be a single MG > Montego. > > http://howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=mg+b > _______________________________________________ > > Mgs at autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.75 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/simon.d.matthews at gmail.com